# Elderberries - New American Cultivars Wyldewoods



## Cracked Cork (Feb 23, 2007)

With so much recent interest in elderberries this week I thought now would be a good time to mention again that there are 2 new American cultivars of Elderberries which, though the research papers havent been released yet, have been mentioned to out produce the standard varieties. They are named Wyldewood #1 and unfortunately Wyldewood #2. Eventually they will become mixed up at the nurseries so now is a good time to order your very own Wyldewoods so you can tell them apart. #1 is supposed to favor a tree like growth habit and is the highest yielder while the #2 is more of a typical bushlike shrub. A very nice little ol lady, Marge Millican in Checotah, OK, phone 918-473-0797, asked if I would let people know there are some avaible, just call her up to order. Now, if you want to know anything about growing, picking or making wine out of elderberries she IS the lady to talk to and she loves to share her elderberry experiences. I suggest if anyone is thinking about planting some elderberry bushes that they give a few of these a try. I havent any affiliation other than a love for elderberry wine.

Crackedcork


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## Waldo (Feb 23, 2007)

Thanks for sharing the info. I will definately be giving her a call.


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## Waldo (Feb 23, 2007)

Well, just got off the phone with Marge ( what an enjoyable conversation, she is the female version of George) and will have two large Wyldewood elderberry trees that will be shipping to me on Monday.
Wohoooooooooooo!!!!


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## jobe05 (Feb 27, 2007)

This just updated TODAY:



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-->*Research Project: *Phenological Characteristics and Horticultural Suitability of 35 New Elderberry Selections 


*Location: **Horticultural Crops Research* 



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<TD>*2006 Annual Report *



*4d.Progress report. *
This report serves to document research conducted under a specific cooperative agreement between ARS and the University of Missouri. Additional details of research can be found in the report for the parent project 5358-21000-036-00D, Physiology, Biochemistry, and Genetic Improvement of Small Fruit Crops. 


Dr. Andrew Thomas and collaborators conducted the following research towards the agreements objectives: 


Since 1999, researchers at the University of Missouri¿s Southwest Research Center at Mt. Vernon, and the State Fruit Experiment Station of Missouri State University at Mountain Grove, have been developing and studying a collection of improved elderberry (Sambucus nigra subsp. canadensis) cultivars. We presently have more than 60 cultivars and selections under evaluation at both locations and continue to search for superior germplasm. Grant #1 allowed us to diligently screen and evaluate 35 initial cultivars for their horticultural potential. We were amazed at the phenological diversity within these selections, as well as their varying yield potentials. Grant #2 permitted us to plant scientifically-based experiments at three diverse locations to elucidate true horticultural differences and to allow us to recommend superior cultivars for release to the public. Several scientific publications (see below) are and will be a direct result of these two grants. More than 500 elderberry plants were propagated, grown, and evaluated for these studies. Once the plantings were installed, they became an excellent resource for additional horticultural studies. For example, we now have a $75,496 grant proposal being considered (with excellent chance for funding) by Land O¿Lakes for a long-term soil fertility and plant nutrition study. Without the initial startup funding from USDA, this terrific expansion of the project would not have been possible. We continue to document the tremendous genetic diversity and horticultural potential among the 60 elderberry cultivars under evaluation. Two cultivars, `Gordon B¿ and `Wyldewood 1¿ have performed so well in our trials that we are currently negotiating with their owners to publish and release the cultivars to the public. Horticultural data on growth, vigor, hardiness, cane production, and disease and insect susceptibility continue to be collected, along with fruiting characteristics such as panicle size and number, berry size and number, fruit quality, flavor, color, skin characteristics, and ripening period. We have also been working with the USDA South Central Agricultural Research Laboratory at Lane, OK to quantify the fruit and juice characteristics of each cultivar. Our studies have also expanded into the medicinal aspects of elderberry fruit and non-fruit tissues, which appear to be equally diverse among the various cultivars. 



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<TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 6px" vAlign=top align=left>*Finn, Chad *[/b]</TD></TR>
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## Cracked Cork (Feb 28, 2007)

Cant wait until their papers get published, seems to be taking FOREVER! There are some more elderberry improvement project links on my webpage. Crackedcork


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## jobe05 (Feb 28, 2007)

OK..... Couldn't wait any longer...... I called Marge.... What a great lady!


I ordered 2 of the largest 3 year old plants she had, she said I should have them by mid next week.


Highly recommend others to buy from Marge. They useually have plants that range from $5 each to $25 each (plus shipping), but are out of all the $5 plants, have a couple $10 and $15 ones left. Better gobble them up while you can!


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## Cracked Cork (Feb 28, 2007)

It would be cool to see how they do spread over the country. Mine are going to be growing in WV zone 6 and will get big heaping piles of horse poop for mulch every year. How about the rest of you guys getting the Wyldewoods? Where are going to plant them?

Crackedcork in WV


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## jobe05 (Feb 28, 2007)

Mine will be in NC, between Winston Salem and the Virginia Border.


The best mine is going to get is watering and a bunch of Bull S$#t..............


When I go out and talk to them


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 1, 2007)

Man, I got some cuttings for the Wyldewood #2 a couple of weeks ago from her and they are sending out stems now under lights and under a plastic cover inside. Elderberry cuttings are so easy to get going normally that its easy to get out of hand and have too many edlerberry bushes, though I havent figured out how many is too many yet. Maybe if I plant enough there will be enough for me and the birds, although I will probably just get more birds!

Cracked COrk


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## Waldo (Mar 1, 2007)

Got my Elderberry trees in yesterday.....WoHooooooo !!!


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## rgecaprock (Mar 1, 2007)

Going to be interesting to watch you guys growing your elderberries!!


Ramona


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 1, 2007)

Got mine in this morning, they are very nice and cant wait to start this springs Wineyard planting! Cracked COrk


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## jobe05 (Mar 1, 2007)

I am waiting on the delivery of mine, and also want to get them in te ground as soon as they arive. The past couple of years, we have had late spring frost that come after most of the trees and plants are in bloom. Last year I was able to cover my peach trees but did not protect the pear trees and plum trees. The plum trees died and the pear trees produced 4 pears. Even the peach trees only produced about 30 pounds, or less than a bushel between 3 trees. This year, with te addition of my muscadine vines, black currant bushesand these elderberries bushes, I bought me some of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-12-MINI-BAMBOO-TIKI-TORCHES-NEW-TABLE-TORCH-LUAU_W0QQitemZ270018312342QQihZ017QQcategoryZ102421QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


















I bought 2 lots of 12 for a total of 24. THey are short enough to hopefully heat the area around te plants enough from keeping them from freezing. I figure it's worth a shot, if that don't work, next year I am tenting my whole back yard.....


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 2, 2007)

Dont worry about frost on elderberries, they dont flower until the summer and they will start to leaf out well before the frosts are over. Have you considered using a sprinkler system to protect against frost? Probably a lot better then some candles  Cracked COrk


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## Waldo (Mar 3, 2007)

Thats what she told me too Cracked. I was going to keep mine in the greenhouse for a few days until this cold snap passed through but she told me to get them in the ground so I did. 





*Edited by: Waldo *


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## grapeman (Mar 3, 2007)

Waldo, how on earth did you get it in the earth? Isn't there three feet of frost? I know it's been a mild winter but there is still 2-3 feet of frost, more some places. 


And is that green grass there? You guys with all your spring stuff is really making me jealous.


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 3, 2007)

Got mine planted this morning, what nice plants! Going to try to grow the WW#1 as a tree and the #2 as bushes. One nice little elderberry lady Marge is. 

Cracked COrk


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 3, 2007)

I see soil...I am also jealous....


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## Waldo (Mar 3, 2007)

I need to give her a call I guess Cracked. I had ordered two trees and I think I actually got a tree and a bush. The other plant is just a curved single stem.


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## Waldo (Mar 3, 2007)

appleman said:


> Waldo, how on earth did you get it in the earth? Isn't there three feet of frost? I know it's been a mild winter but there is still 2-3 feet of frost, more some places.
> 
> 
> And is that green grass there? You guys with all your spring stuff is really making me jealous.







On our worst winter NW I dont think we have over 3-4 inches of frost line and yep our grass is turning green and trees are beginning to bud out.


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 3, 2007)

Hey Waldo, I would imagine you are going to have to select which stem that comes up this spring is going to be your main branch. Elders are not like regular trees, you might even just prune what you have off of the one you think is a bush to one stem later this spring. Mine had multiple stems also but that is normal as they like to grow as a bush naturally. Cracked Cork


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## smurfe (Mar 3, 2007)

Are there any characteristics of these particular varieties that make them more desirable to any other Elderberry? I am very interested in planting some. Will a tree take years to produce? I have finally got moved and have some land to plants a few things. Elderberries are on my list. How are these priced compared to bushes I can order from Henry Fields/Gurneys?


Smurfe


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 3, 2007)

smurfe said:


> Are there any characteristics of these particular varieties that make them more desirable to any other Elderberry? I am very interested in planting some. Will a tree take years to produce? I have finally got moved and have some land to plants a few things. Elderberries are on my list. How are these priced compared to bushes I can order from Henry Fields/Gurneys?
> 
> Smurfe



I have been ordering mail order for years [and I am old] and never been impressed with Henry Fields/Gurneys/Farmers/Spring Hill and other companies that are based in Bloomington IL....They are all owned by the same company and do not have good reputations...They do not have very good plants, stingy with the seed count and not good on customer service...

Check out the Garden Watch Dog...anyone can rate the service they have recieved...look up a company you might want to do business with before you buy....Rate your favorites...

http://davesgarden.com/gwd/*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## smurfe (Mar 3, 2007)

Northern Winos said:


> smurfe said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any characteristics of these particular varieties that make them more desirable to any other Elderberry? I am very interested in planting some. Will a tree take years to produce? I have finally got moved and have some land to plants a few things. Elderberries are on my list. How are these priced compared to bushes I can order from Henry Fields/Gurneys?
> ...


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 3, 2007)

Farmer's seed and Nursery use to be in Minnesota and Gurneys use to be in South Dakota....and other companies were in other cities...like in Bloomington, IL...I use to like Henry Fields and Gurneys... but over the years had too many disappointments...when you get your plants from some of these companies they often all come from Ohio...So, go figure...

I saw a write up on this, a large company took over many failing companies and combined them all, still using the names...the service is a crap shoot...some people are happy with the Coupons...I have ordered planting suppies...seemed over priced even with the coupon.

The companies where the catalogs all look the same...are one and the same.

Don't expect too much if you order from them...if it says 1/2 pound of seed you'll get that, but the small packages might have just a few seeds...the seeds will probably be okay, but a small count.

I have been very disappointed with plants from that bunch of compaies...they are either small, moldy, rotten or dried out...I have kind of given up on them...too many disappointments over the years...You might get a coupon to replace a plant, but it expires before the next planting season...or the replacement is worse and comes too late to live...so you loose a planting season.

Try a company that someone recommends who have been satisfied lately....

Maybe these companies are coming around and improving...they sure had a bad reputation the past few years....

Check out The Garden Watch Dog....it's people like us with their experiences, expressing their opinions......Good luck


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 4, 2007)

Smurfe, there is an ongoing study by the Elderberry Genome Improvement project to identify and select superior Elderberry varities to grow in the USA. From reading their preliminary reports online - links on my elderberry webpage - Wyldwood #1 has outproduced all the others. Other varities in the top include Adams, Haschberg and I think Wyldewood #2. The europeans varities (Nigra) dont do well where its hot, at least not the ones we tried to grow in comparism to the native species cultivars. York, Adams and Johns are the standard varities available and produce well.

About the tree, you can grow your elderberries in 2 different ways. One is natrually as a bush, letting new stems emerge from the crown every year. The other way is to select one or two main stems and prune all others away. This is more labor instensive and cuts dowm some on yield. There a lot of theories on how to prune the bushes, some people just take out dead wood, others take out all wood over 3 or 4 years old, some even chop the whole bush down to the ground every other year. A pruning study is also under way by the EB improvement people and hopefully they can figure out the best way. 

Cracked Cork


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## smurfe (Mar 4, 2007)

I had read some of the pruning techniques and must say it can be confusing at times. I would probably plant a bush type for easy picking unless the trees were dwarf type. I will probably stick with a bush though that I can plant along a fence line. I really only want enough berries for a 5 gallonbatch or two a year. I am getting to a point where I have to be selective about the wines I make as I am getting a pretty good stock built up.


Smurfe


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 4, 2007)

There is no harm in just letting it go whatever way it wants and just cutting out any dead wood from time to time, plant 2 different cultivars for the best fruit set and you can let them go and make a big hedge if you want. 2 bushes growing well would let you make a 5 gallon batch or 2 every year. 

Crackedcork


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## jobe05 (Mar 7, 2007)

I got my 2 plants today and now I have to call Marge...................... TO THANK HER! She must have taken packing instuction 101 from Mark. These bushes were 4 foot tall above the roots. The roots had suckers attached that are already leafing out! I got many plants in one thanks to Marge and her gang for getting these to me so safely. Only had 2 small branches about the diameter and length of a pencil break off. 


I am very pleased with these bushes. I would HIGHLY recommend buying plants from these people.


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## grapeman (Mar 8, 2007)

Cracked Cork- You have become somewhat an expert on Elderberries over the last few years, maybe you can shed some more light. Do all Elderberries give off the green goo when making the wine. I made a 3 gallon batch last year I still havent bottled. I made a destemming board like you have on your webpage. I still got the dreaded green goo and it is very hard to clean up afterwards. 


Couple questions- What is the best way to clean up the goo?


and Do some varieties produce more or less than others.


We have a lot of semi-wild Elderberries here and getting plenty of them for wine isn't a problem. If some cultivated varieties don't have the problem with it, they might be worth trying.


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## jobe05 (Mar 8, 2007)

Appleman, I can't answer your question about the green gooo....... but I can say, it was more than worth the price of the plants to have a conversation with Marge. 


I called her last night and left a message on her answering machine, thanking her for great looking plants. She returned my call this morning on my cell phone and we talked for about a half an hour. She is about the most spry 80 year old you'll ever talk to, and just the sweetest person ever.


She wanted me to tell everyone that she still has a few plants left, and you'd all save her a trip to the winery this weekend if you'd just order some. She is an incredible person with an incredible product. She said the plant, under testing, has proven to out produce any other elderberry plant. She said if the other plants can produce 8 pounds of fruit, hers will produce 18 pounds. I'm not sure if her numbers were accurately quoteing the test's, but she was confident and that was enough for me.*Edited by: jobe05 *


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 8, 2007)

Has anyone steam extracted the juice from Elderberries????I am interested to know if the green-goo is gone or in the steamer...?

I won't have Elderberries for a long time...I do have one big plant, but it has no mate....The 2 plants from last year grew well, but probably won't bloom for another year or more...they might pollinate the old plant and surprise me next year.

Meanwhile...hoping they all survive this winter...and looking forward to 2 more plants arriving sometime this spring...Unfortunately I have to depend on the old faithful hardy varieties....

Anxious to hear about and see photos of your new varieties, growing, blooming and fruiting...then...the wine...


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 8, 2007)

Dude, not an expert in any way shape or form. Still amatuer but, have been gardening for a while 

Winemaker magazine ran a blurb a few years ago about using oil to remove the green goo, its a nonpolar substance which is why it wont dissolve in water. Vegetable oil work easily, and then you wash the veg oil off with soap and water. Another alternative we also like is to use a plastic food safe bag in the primary, one out of the primary just toss out the bag and dong clean anything up, but its a bit hard to find a bag just right for a 6 gallon primary so we only use that for the big green barrel.

As far as what the goo making qualities of any variety is I havent the slightest clue, maybe when the Elderberry Geneplasm Improvement project is completed that will be one of their goals to rid us of the goo.

Crackedcork


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 8, 2007)

Northern Wino, I have not tried cooking them yet but from reading it seems that cooking does get rid of the green goo. A few people have mentioned that they dont get the goo because they pick really really ripe berries. I am picking mine as the birds strip them off and get the green stuff so I will have to live with it, most of my plants are along a pasture and any attempt to net them will catch a horse!

Your plants might just bloom, I have had them bloom when they just started out as cuttings, I clipped them off to make elderberryflower wine so that they bushes would put their energy into roots and not berries, this will be their first year and I am expecting all of them to produce so keep an eye out for those flowerheads.

Most of the ones we have are Canadensis which is very hardy, the Nigra cultivars havent seemed to like our summer heat, got a couple hanging one that might make it but they never grew as well as the native ones. The Wyldewoods by the way were selected from wild bushes, not bred, as far as I understand.

Crackedcork


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## grapeman (Mar 9, 2007)

Cracked Cork has a lot of links on his site that could be helpful for you guys and gals starting Elderberries this year. For this first season the following link should prove very helpful.


http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/fls/OCRPDF/91.pdf


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 9, 2007)

appleman said:


> Cracked Cork has a lot of links on his site that could be helpful for you guys and gals starting Elderberries this year. For this first season the following link should prove very helpful.
> 
> http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/fls/OCRPDF/91.pdf



Appleman...Interesting article 

I mentions diseases related to tomatoes, apples and raspberries....




Has anyone had disease problems from the Elderberries spread to other crops...








Have other fruits contributed to diseases in your Elderberries...





Are you going to plant them near your apples?????...or...you have apples everywhere and have no choice.





I was going to plant this years plants near my veggie garden...haven't had many tomato diseases in past...[mainly because I plant them in black plastic]....But also have raspberries in that area....

Maybe I should just plant these new plants where the others are planted...In an area at the end of a long flower bed...it finishes with Native shrubs...[originally berries intended for the birds]...I call it the Native Fruit Garden....or the Peony Alley...I had to move and divide many Peonies and mixed them with the Native bushes....

However...now over the past 4 years have planted fruit trees near there...hope the Elderberries don't bring in diseases...????





Any input on Elderberry diseases...


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## grapeman (Mar 9, 2007)

I think you would have more to worry about with the veggies providing innoculum to the Elderberries. If the veggies are clean, I wouldn't worry about it. I've never had problems with the Elderberries getting diseased. I'm not going to plant any Elderberries yet, there are plenty growing around here. I will do some heavier pruning this year,the bushes are getting a little overgrown and tall for picking.


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## Cracked Cork (Mar 14, 2007)

I ran into a reference of future publications on the Missouri State Univ. website and found that they are going to officially release Wyldewood 1 as a new cultivar this year. I would suppose that would mean that there will be a rush to get it out to the growers, that is if any are interested which I hope they are. Crackedcork


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