# Muscadine Wine



## Waldo (Aug 30, 2005)

Do the seeds need to be removed from the fruit before fermenting begins?


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## Hippie (Aug 30, 2005)

Good Lord, NO!!!


Gonna coarse filter my 3 gallon batch 1 of '04 Muscadine in the morning.


Quick lesson, Waldo...


Freeze them Muscadines for a few weeks, thaw well, place a double handful at a time in a gallon ziplock, try to get most of the air out while zipping closed, mash by pressing down on the bag with one hand on top of the other using your palm of the bottom hand. Dump from bag into straining bag in primary fermentor. Simple enough? I do lots of fruit this way. Works very well with blackberries. It is important to freeze them for long enough that they are all frozen solid for a while and their whole molecular system seems to break down when they are thawed. Blackberries will juice themselves when thawing.


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## Hi In The Pines (Aug 30, 2005)

For my peaches and nectarines, I cut up into marble sizes and then with my food vaccumn I cut extra long plastic bags and then take all the air out and seal. When I thawed, I used a wooden rolling pin and my hands and crushed well. I poured it into my course straining bag and then crushed more with my sanitized hands.


With my Zante Currants, I froze sticks, stems, leaves, everything. Once frozen, I then went through and then de-stemmed, leaved and such, then quickly air sealed again, for later crushing. The grapes were very easy to clean while frozen especially since they were very small. I didnt want to crush them too soon.


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## Waldo (Aug 31, 2005)

Thanks, but it is too late. To freeze them was my first inclination. Not so much that I knew it would be better but as a matter of giving me some time. Based on (1) No room at the freezer for 17 lbs of muscadines and (2) They had been picked for 2 days already and had been sitting in a refrigator I went ahead and processed them. Going for a 3 gallon batch, I washed them good, removed the stems, washed them again and then smushed the heck outa them in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag ( A tip from Hippie



)in my well sterilized primary fermenter. I then dissolved 6 lbs sugar in some hot water along with 3 campden tablets and 1 TBSP of yeast nutrient. Added this to my fermenter and stirred well and put the lidon it (loosely) with an sg of 1.085. My only dilema is I have no way of testing the PH unless I can use the kit I have for our hot tub ?????? I am going to add pectic enzyme to the must before I leave for work this morning. Oh yes, there was about 30 big golden beautiful scuppernongs in with the muscadines and I left them in.


*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Hippie (Aug 31, 2005)

I think you have the makings of a very good wine. Do not add tannin or acid blend. I think the ph and acid will be fine. What yeast are you going to pitch?


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## Waldo (Aug 31, 2005)

Was planning on pitching Montrachet but open for suggestions. I also have Lalvin EC1118, 71B1122 and KI-V1116.


I added 2 tsp. of pectic enzyme to it this evening. Gave it another good stirring and planning on checking the SG andpitching the yeast before I leave for work in the morning.


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## Hippie (Aug 31, 2005)

I would go with the 71B. You won't be sorry. It will help reduce the harsh acid and help's a dry wine seem less harsh when young. You might still want to finish it off-dry or even semi-sweet. Sounds like you are doing a good job!


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## Waldo (Sep 1, 2005)

Thanks Hippie. Pitched the 71B this morning at SG1.120 and a temp 0f 74 degrees. The SG seemed a little high ( Maybe not)but I didn't want to dilute the must to try and lower it.


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## Hippie (Sep 1, 2005)

How ddid you get the SG so high? In the above post it says 1.085! I hope the yeast starts ok in that much sugar. I reckon when you tested before it was warm? You have to learn about adjusting for temperature. There is a chart somewhere. You have enough sugar there for at least 17%, if the yeast can go that far, doubtful.


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## Waldo (Sep 1, 2005)

Im not sure Hippie. I was surprised myself. I just checked it and there is a smidgen of activity but it has only been about 14 hrs so I will check it again in the morning and see what is happening. If the yeast does not begin to ferment is my best approach going to be try to whip me up a starter and then add that to it?


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## Hippie (Sep 1, 2005)

Yep,I would anyway with more of that EC-1118. It will go to 18% maybe, but I ain't saying it will be good muscadine wine with an alcohol that high. Might take alot of sweetening after stabilizing if the EC-1118 takes it all the way dry. I would have suggested the EC-1118 if I had known the SG was gonna be that high.


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## Waldo (Sep 2, 2005)

Checked the SG again and it is still at 1.120 and no sign of fermentation. Drew out about 1/6 cup, added 1 cup filtered waterand used it tomake a starter with the Ec-1118.


It sure do look "purty" though. Nice deep rich color to the must


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## Hippie (Sep 2, 2005)

Good deal. Just do that starter like you did the other one and it should get going. Don't forget to stir it good before you pitch. You didn't get too much sulphite in the must did you? Probably not. I think it is too much sugar hindering the other yeast.


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## Waldo (Sep 2, 2005)

It appears to be on the mends Hippie. Have a good layer of fermentation on it right now with the odor of muscadines very prominent when the lid was raised to check it. If it continues, I will airlock it this evening and ler her bump.


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## Hippie (Sep 3, 2005)

Sounds good. If there is not much airspace above it, be careful you don't airlock too soon. I always do, but that's just my OCD. I have my fingers crossed for it!


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## Waldo (Sep 3, 2005)

Plenty of air space. It is a 3 gallon batch in a 7 gallon fermenter.


I did move it from the 70-72 degree kitchen into the 75-80 degree washroom. Thought the warmer temp might help it also.*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Hippie (Sep 3, 2005)

Yes, it should help, then move it back into the cooler room when you rack at about SG1.010 or so, if you wanted you could rack into a 5 gallon sooner, but you might want maximum skin contact for flavor and color. You don't wanna go too low with alot of airspace.


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## Waldo (Sep 3, 2005)

The warmer temp seemed to help. It had a good 2 inch cap on the must whichI gently stirred back down. How much longer should I leave the pulp in the fermenter?


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## Hippie (Sep 3, 2005)

I would leave it in until you rack to glass. You get more flavor and color that way. Also more tannin, which helps it age to it's full potential. All I do to the pulp twice a day is just turn the bag over. Sometimes I jab at it with the plastic spoon. You should be stirring it all up at the same time. Are you getting alot of CO2 coming out of the pulp bag?


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## Waldo (Sep 4, 2005)

Not sure how to tell Hippie. Thus far it has been crusted over with a foam also and I did turn it over when I stirred. Another question, When I get ready to do a SG reading I sanitize everything well and after I get my reading I return the wine to the fermenter/carboy. I just read this morning in "Joy of Home Wine Making" that it is best not to do that? What isthe forums'opinion on this? *Edited by: Waldo *


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## Hippie (Sep 4, 2005)

Just make sure all is sanitized well and you will be fine. I do it all the time. Strain your SG sample through a piece of sanitized cloth into the hydrometer jar and you will get a lots more accurate reading.


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## peterCooper (Sep 4, 2005)

So where do you get the grapes for Muscadine?

I'm about 3 hours south of Dallas and I would have no clue how to transport 
them.


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## Hippie (Sep 4, 2005)

Muscadine and Scuppernong growers are few and far between I think in your part of the world. They are plentiful in most parts of the Southeast. I think Texas lacks the humidity they lovein most parts, but some grow them there. Mustang grapes are a big deal in Texas. You might ask your County Extension office if they know of anyone growing them.


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## Waldo (Sep 5, 2005)

Thanks for the straining tip Hippie. That could account for some of my high readings as I know there was pulp present when I took my readings


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## Hippie (Sep 5, 2005)

It won't usually throw it off by very much and you don't need to get clear must or wine to test, but a very coarse straining will be more accurate, especially toward the end of the ferment.


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## Waldo (Sep 8, 2005)

It is finished Hippie. It fermented to totally dry. I took two SG readings at 2am this morning and both were the same, off the scale of the hydrometer.I also checked the PH with my new test strips I got from George yesterday and the ph was 3.4. Dont know if this good or bad but I am going to research it. Anyway, I racked it to a carboy, added 3 campden tablets and sorbate. Stirred the heck out of it and put an airlock on her. Had a beautiful,richruby color to it and a definate odor of muscadines. Will get a pic of it this evening and post it.


My "Mad Scientist" kit continues to grow !!


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## MedPretzel (Sep 8, 2005)

You got the vinbrite filter!









That is wonderful!!! I have one too! I must warn you, though, the wines should be pretty clear before you filter them, otherwise it takes a few hours for a 5 gallon carboy.


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## Waldo (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks Martina..Found this one on eBay. It was used twice he said but I got it for 12.00 and it still has 4 of the filters for it. I gotta check with George and see if he has the filters for them.


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## Hippie (Sep 8, 2005)

3.4 is great! Should be well balanced if you decide to sweeten a tad. How does it taste? Good job!


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## MedPretzel (Sep 8, 2005)

Yes, George has the filters for it.





It's good for the beginner!





(I still use it)


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## Waldo (Sep 8, 2005)

Thanks Hippie...It tasted really good to me and I don't particularly care for real dry wines or at least I used to not care for them. Perhaps my taste preference is changing. We had a bottle of Chateau Gane Bordeaux 1993 Vintage Monday and I really enjoyed it. Anyway, it had a hint of muscadine in the taste but not nearly as strong as I had anticipated given the strong muscadine boquet it had. Boquet my butt..It smelled like muscadines...THERE



Should I oak it?








Oh yes. When I racked it to the carboy I had almost a 750ml bottle left soI sanitized a bottle and filled it with the remnants, put an airlock on it and going to see how it does with no stabilizing or sorbate. *Edited by: Waldo *


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## Hippie (Sep 9, 2005)

Looks good. Is it a little thin? Oak is your preference. Soak some oak cubes of your choice in it for a few weeks if you like oak. I like a medium oak profile in muscadine and a huge oak character in blackberry. Post Familie's red muscadine wine has no oak at all and it is the best.


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## Waldo (Sep 9, 2005)

It looks a lot thiner now than when I first racked it but I still think it is going to be a pretty decent wine. Hoping for that anway.


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## Hippie (Sep 9, 2005)

I racked the '04 Scuppernong just now. It is very good already and ready for filtering. Very clear also. Camera is kaputt so can't post pics. Gonna go now and bottle my blackberry liqueur!


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## Waldo (Sep 9, 2005)

I stopped by a liquor store this evening and bought a bottle of the Post Family red muscadine. Twofold purpose. 1st is to give me a benchmark tocompare how my wine is doing and second if it lasts,I will use it for topping off later. 


I also need to know Hippie if when I next rack it, can I rack it into 3 gallon jugs. I need to free up my 3 gallon carboy for a Port kit I got from George.





*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Hippie (Sep 11, 2005)

Has it been stabilized?


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## Waldo (Sep 11, 2005)

Yes it has. Used 3 Campden tablets and 1-1/2 Tsp Sorbate


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## Hippie (Sep 11, 2005)

Iwill say it is ok to rack to 3 - gallon jugs.


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## Waldo (Sep 12, 2005)

Great..Thanks Hippie.


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## Waldo (Sep 23, 2005)

Racked my Muscadine this morning to gallon jugs. 











The aroma was more intense since the last racking which wasn't that long ago. I liked what I tasted and think this one is going to be good. Will have to get Hippies address, send him a sample and let him critique it for me








Topped them off with some Posts Red Muscadine and now ready to rack my Port into the 3 gallon carboy this weekend


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## Hippie (Sep 23, 2005)

Beautiful!


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## MedPretzel (Sep 23, 2005)

I agree. Great color!


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## Waldo (Sep 23, 2005)

Thanks Hippie and Martina. I am hoping it will only ge better as it ages.


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## MedPretzel (Sep 23, 2005)

How does it taste? Did you go with Oak or no?


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## Hi In The Pines (Sep 23, 2005)

Ok, so whats a Muscadine?? and are there other names for it?


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## Hippie (Sep 24, 2005)

A grape native to the Southeast. There are now several hybrid cultivars in black, bronze, pink, red. Vitis Rotundifolia. The bronze color is sometimes called Scuppernong.


www.isons.com


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## Waldo (Sep 24, 2005)

I did not oak it Martina. I wish I had but I could neverremember to order any more. I do however have a 5 liter oak barrel with a medium char that I am going to bulk age some of it in when it gets ready to bottle.


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## MedPretzel (Sep 24, 2005)

wow! a barrel?!? You sure do learn fast!














Martina


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## Hippie (Sep 24, 2005)

Waldo, better start getting that barrel ready now. Aren't you supposed to keep it full of something liquid always? I don't know much about them, but should you fill it with a K-Meta solution until time to put wine it it? 





*Edited by: Hippie *


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## Waldo (Sep 24, 2005)

It is still a new barrel right now Hippie. Has not been used yet. The instructions call for soaking it, submerged for 2-3 days and then filling it with water until it quits leaking. It is then supposed to be ready for filling. I will use this process and once it quits leaking then I will fill it with the K-Meta until the wine is ready to add. I think at the rate it is clearing it should probably be ready about the end of October. There is a picture of the barrel in an earlier post I think was in the topic about my wine cellar


*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Hippie (Sep 24, 2005)

Do the instructions give you any idea how long you will have the wine in the barrel before you rack back to glass and add another wine to it? I am thinking no more than 2-3 months for a new barrel, especially a small one that gives more wood-wine ratio than a larger barrel. The next wine can stay in longer to get the same oaking, then the next longer, etc. I have no personal experience with barrels and only pass on what I have studied.


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## Waldo (Sep 25, 2005)

The instructions do not cover that Hippie. They only allude to the fact that the barrel needs to be kept full or it will dry out and start leaking. I thought I would age in the barrel for about 3-4 months and then bottle it and add one gallon of the Mead back to the barrel and see how it does in oak.*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Waldo (Sep 28, 2005)

Well, it has been almost a week now since I racked my Muscadine and there ishardly any more sediment at all. I think I may be within a couple of weeks of being ready to bottle it. I took it outside for a breath of fresh air and to reacquaint it with its more familiar surroundings. Hoping to encourage it to be a good wine.








There are two labels I have designed for my Muscadine Wine. I am going to use the one that garners the most popular votes here on the forum. Go to 'Polls" to see the labels and post your vour vote.














*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Angell Wine (Sep 28, 2005)

I DON'T LIKE MUSCADINE WINE BUT I THINK I WOULD TRY THAT ONE. lOOKS GOOD !


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## Hippie (Sep 28, 2005)

It is your wine. It seems really young to be ready to bottle. Just my opinion.


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## Waldo (Sep 29, 2005)

Thanks Angel 


Grasshopper seeks the wisdom of the "Muscadine Master"


So it is better to bulk age it than to let it age in the bottle Hippie? 


*Edited by: Waldo *


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## peterCooper (Sep 29, 2005)

It certainly does look nice. Is muscadine a wine that could be blended? If so 
with what?


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## Waldo (Sep 29, 2005)

Peter, I just started a Muscadine/Concord Grape that I hope will be a good blend.


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## rgecaprock (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi Waldo,


Been kind of away from the forum but looking at the posts you have really come a long way in a short time....your wines look great. I can tell you are having fun.....you should be proud!!!!!






Ramona


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## Hippie (Sep 29, 2005)

Waldo...Bottle it!, then let it age a year, or more.


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## Waldo (Sep 30, 2005)

Thanks Ramona....I owe my success to all of the good people here on the forum. With each attempt/failure I am adding notches to my wine making skills. 


I think the ultimate would be that one weekend we could all meet somewhere just to fellowship/share wines and see who can tell the biggest lies


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## rgecaprock (Sep 30, 2005)

That would definitely be the ultimate!! Hope that someday that can happen and I have a feeling it will!!


Ramona


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## Angell Wine (Sep 30, 2005)

Queen Wilhelmina state park or Hot Springs ?


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## rgecaprock (Sep 30, 2005)

We need to plan something in the spring......Sounds like a good central location....would that be Arkansas?


Ramona


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## Waldo (Oct 1, 2005)

Hot Springs woul be ideal !!!



*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Waldo (Oct 4, 2005)

Started my 5 liter barrel curing yesterday moning. Will let it soak another day then put it on its rack and keep er full tilll it stops leaking then I plan to fill it with sulfite solution and let it soak until I get ready to add the Muscadine to it.


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## Hippie (Oct 4, 2005)

Will the sulphite solution soak into the wood and leach out into the wine, dosing it too much?


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## Waldo (Oct 5, 2005)

You may be right Hippie.. I sent the manufacturer an email but they have not responded back yet


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## Waldo (Oct 8, 2005)

Bottled my Muscadine today. Started at 2:30 am sanitizing bottles. Then racked Muscadine into primary fermenter. I don't think it really needed it but I went ahead and filtered the muscadine too. I made a sugar syrup and sweetened the muscadine just a tad. 








Got everything corked without any major mishaps. I found that neat wine bottle holder on eBay. I thought it was pretty cool.








Then I applied my labels and shrink tops. I know, this is not the label I intended to use but when I printed out the one I was going to use it just did not look right. I played with it a while and finally gave up and made the one on the bottles.








Here is a better picture of the label





*Edited by: Waldo *


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## MedPretzel (Oct 8, 2005)

It looks absolutely wonderful, Waldo!





Congratulations on a great looking wine!


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## masta (Oct 8, 2005)

Holy cow Waldo....you are turning into quite a winemaker!






Looks like we have a soon to be expert in the making!


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## rgecaprock (Oct 8, 2005)

Waldo,


You have made some great looking wines..






What is the board with the hole and the wine bottle sticking out of it???


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## Hippie (Oct 8, 2005)

Very nice Waldo!


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## Waldo (Oct 9, 2005)

rgecaprock said:


> Waldo,
> 
> 
> You have made some great looking wines..
> ...


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## Waldo (Oct 9, 2005)

MedPretzel said:


> It looks absolutely wonderful, Waldo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks Martina....I owe it's success tot he Forum.


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## Waldo (Oct 9, 2005)

masta said:


> Holy cow Waldo....you are turning into quite a winemaker!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks Masta..and I am having a blast. Just anticipating another 12 months down the road when the fruits of my labors are being realized fully


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## Waldo (Oct 9, 2005)

Hippie said:


> Very nice Waldo!




Thanks Hipppie......I cant wai until next year to get more muscadines. I am just hoping I did not waste those good muscadines on the blend I did with the Grape


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## Hippie (Oct 9, 2005)

Me too!


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## Angell Wine (Jan 19, 2006)

Waldo : Give us an up date on the oak barrel


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## pkcook (Jan 19, 2006)

Waldo,


What a vivid color!



I'm sure the taste will be just as good.


Bra...vo!


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## bj4271 (Feb 3, 2006)

Looks super Waldo. I hope it tastes as good, but I find that muscadine always tastes good. The only diff I have with batches is dryness. 


I'm not nearly as refined as you - a few mashed muscadines, a little sugar, some yeast in a gallon jug &amp; wait a month. I;m almonst afraid to try large batches.


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## Waldo (Feb 3, 2006)

Don't be afraid bj..just jump off in the deepest end podner


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