# Are my grape plants dead?



## bcort

Hi.. new to the forum, looking for some help. 

Back in June, I got a few grape plants from a big winery. I had a pergola and was hoping to put them in planters and see if they would grow up the pergola. It was only a few bucks, so worth a try. 

The plants all had one or two small leafs on them.

When I got home, I transplanted them from skinny planters into what you'll see in the pictures. 

Fast forward to today. One of the plants has some leafs on it, though it hasn't really "grown" at all. One has the original leaf on it that's dead. The other two haven't done anything; their leaf has fallen off. 

Pictures:


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## TonyR

What I would have done is transplant them into the ground. If in pots you must water ever few days. Like all new plants they need care and water, mostly water.


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## Masbustelo

The pots are enormously too small. Grape plant root structure basically approximates what you see above ground.


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## dwhill40

Grapevines in their natural state are designed to race up a tree and expose it's leaves to sunshine, hide their developing fruit until the seeds are ripe, and then when the fruit is ripe expose their fruit as colored delicious fruit for birds to take away and spread the ripened seed. Now put that in the context of a small clay pot.


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## bcort

TonyR said:


> What I would have done is transplant them into the ground. If in pots you must water ever few days. Like all new plants they need care and water, mostly water.





Masbustelo said:


> The pots are enormously too small. Grape plant root structure basically approximates what you see above ground.





dwhill40 said:


> Grapevines in their natural state are designed to race up a tree and expose it's leaves to sunshine, hide their developing fruit until the seeds are ripe, and then when the fruit is ripe expose their fruit as colored delicious fruit for birds to take away and spread the ripened seed. Now put that in the context of a small clay pot.


Thanks for all the replies. Are these plants salvageable (or do they look salvageable)?


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## garymc

Unfortunately, if the top died from bugs eating all the leaves or being hit by a lawn mower, the healthy root system would push new buds open on the stump or push up new shoots from the roots. You probably have dead roots on the ones with no leaves. If they're grafted, any new shoots would be whatever the rootstock is. You don't tell what variety of grapes they are, so it's hard to give advice. If the vines are something the vineyard had growing 4 feet tall with 2 foot arms, don't expect to cover a pergola with it. You don't say what climate you're in, but June is late for transplanting anything outside. I would put the living ones in the ground and go back to the drawing board on the dead ones. Find something that grows in your climate with little upkeep like weekly spraying. If you expect it to grow up onto the pergola, it should be something vigorous. 
Grapes native to this continent and your area would be a good place to start.


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## bcort

garymc said:


> Unfortunately, if the top died from bugs eating all the leaves or being hit by a lawn mower, the healthy root system would push new buds open on the stump or push up new shoots from the roots. You probably have dead roots on the ones with no leaves. If they're grafted, any new shoots would be whatever the rootstock is. You don't tell what variety of grapes they are, so it's hard to give advice. If the vines are something the vineyard had growing 4 feet tall with 2 foot arms, don't expect to cover a pergola with it. You don't say what climate you're in, but June is late for transplanting anything outside. I would put the living ones in the ground and go back to the drawing board on the dead ones. Find something that grows in your climate with little upkeep like weekly spraying. If you expect it to grow up onto the pergola, it should be something vigorous.
> Grapes native to this continent and your area would be a good place to start.


I believe they're Roussane vines. You bring up a good point about how they could grow. 

I'm in the San Joaquin Valley in CA, so the grapes aren't from too far away.


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## dking193

Get your pocket knife out and scrape and cut into the wood near the top. See if you can find some green wood. If no green wood, move down 3-4 inches and try again. Keep doing this until you fine green wood or get to the bottom of the vine. 

No green wood, it's dead. If you find green wood you might have a chance to save it. Young plants need lots of water and wet soil to establish a root system. Until they get a good root system. That little pot would dry out in the summer each day, way too small. Too late to probably keep it soaked. Water it well and gently remove from soil. Find you a water bucket and submerge the root system in the water. Leave it there and replenish the water as needed to keep the roots wet. See if some buds come out. Problem is it's getting late in the year for new wood to grow, age and turn brown and harden before winter comes. Depending on where you live even if you could get it growing again, winter cold might kill it off again. Hope this helps.


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## dbeck

Vines are hard to kill. If everything above ground is dead, it can still push up new shoots from the root system.

Vines store all their energy (carbohydrates) in their root system.

First, you need to get them out of those tiny pots. A vine should be balanced meaning that however much you see out of the ground, you should have an equal amount of roots to match it. Tough to do in those little pots.

What I would do is go ahead and plant them and see if they don't push up some new shoots next spring. If they don't, its an easy matter to dig them out and plant new vines. You should not plant anything later than the first week of June.


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## Johny99

dbeck said:


> Vines are hard to kill. If everything above ground is dead, it can still push up new shoots from the root system.
> 
> Vines store all their energy (carbohydrates) in their root system.
> 
> First, you need to get them out of those tiny pots. A vine should be balanced meaning that however much you see out of the ground, you should have an equal amount of roots to match it. Tough to do in those little pots.
> 
> What I would do is go ahead and plant them and see if they don't push up some new shoots next spring. If they don't, its an easy matter to dig them out and plant new vines. You should not plant anything later than the first week of June.



I absolutely agree. Put them in the ground, keep them damp till fall, and see what comes up in the spring. You my be surprised.


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## crushday

Similar question....

I planted 100 vines about a month ago. Most of the plants aren't looking alive at this point. I'm guessing they went into shock and have been establishing new root growth. I have been watering once a week. The soil is sandy and well drained.

When I first planted, most of the vines had some sign of growth. Within a week most of that was withered and looking dead. I assume the root disruption was enough that the leaves could not sustain.

Anyone with with a suggestion? Just wait it out?


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## Johnd

George Burgin said:


> Similar question....
> 
> I planted 100 vines about a month ago. Most of the plants aren't looking alive at this point. I'm guessing they went into shock and have been establishing new root growth. I have been watering once a week. The soil is sandy and well drained.
> 
> When I first planted, most of the vines had some sign of growth. Within a week most of that was withered and looking dead. I assume the root disruption was enough that the leaves could not sustain.
> 
> Anyone with with a suggestion? Just wait it out?



Not a grape grower, but I have been growing plants / vegetables most of my life, and at least where I live, watering once a week for newly planted material would mean certain death. My stuff gets watered daily or every other day until I see vigorous root activity in the form of vigorous growth.


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## crushday

Johnd said:


> Not a grape grower, but I have been growing plants / vegetables most of my life, and at least where I live, watering once a week for newly planted material would mean certain death. My stuff gets watered daily or every other day until I see vigorous root activity in the form of vigorous growth.


Thanks, John. Not much instruction given in the 'plant new vines' department of the internet. To be fair to my 100 new vines, it did rain every day for the first two weeks and I have watered heavy between business trips. Yesterday was a healthy watering. I can see buds or leaves on 53 of the vines. The others, withered. 8 of them appear like dowels rising from the ground. I'll report again in about a week or so after I get home from Montana.


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## treesaver

What Johnd said. In sandy ground, they more than likely are toast. Young plants take a lot of care!


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## Dennis Griffith

Bare root? If they were bare root, then it can take a couple of months to come out of dormancy (depending on variety). Were they dormant when you planted them? If you got them in pots, it's a crap shoot as you don't know how they were treated prior to you planting them (ie, periods of dry or freezing). You can do a scratch test to see if there is green under the bark. Or nip an end off and look for green. Green means it's alive. No green = dead.


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## crushday

Dennis Griffith said:


> Bare root? If they were bare root, then it can take a couple of months to come out of dormancy (depending on variety). Were they dormant when you planted them? If you got them in pots, it's a crap shoot as you don't know how they were treated prior to you planting them (ie, periods of dry or freezing). You can do a scratch test to see if there is green under the bark. Or nip an end off and look for green. Green means it's alive. No green = dead.


These plants were bare root. They came bundled in groups of 20, wrapped in plastic and packed in water retention gel. I soaked them in water for 4 hours before planting. It was raining very hard the day I planted and continued raining for two more weeks. Yesterday it was 80 degrees.


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## Dennis Griffith

It can be unsettling waiting for something to happened. Some varieties take a long time to come out of dormancy. I have some green table grape vines that seem to be dead every year as they trail all the other varieties. Just about the time I start to get nervous, something pops out. Like I said, you can do a scratch test to look for green. Knowing your area, it's hard to believe they have had time to dry out. Too much rain for me...


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## crushday

Dennis Griffith said:


> It and be unsettling waiting for something to happened. Some varieties take a long time to come out of dormancy. I have some green table grape vines that seem to be dead every year as they trail all the other varieties. Just about the time I start to get nervous, something pops out. Like I said, you can do a scratch test to look for green. Knowing your area, it's hard to believe they have had time to dry out. Too much rain for me...


Good enough, Dennis. I'll let you know what comes of the scratch test.


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## Masbustelo

What have your soil temperatures been ?


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## crushday

Masbustelo said:


> What have your soil temperatures been ?


Not sure of the soil temp. We've had highs in the 70's and lows in the 40s. Yesterday was 80 and the overnight was 48 low. So, 18" down, I'm thinking stays pretty cool this time of year. 

Should I get a 18" thermometer?

As much as Seattle area has a reputation for being rainy, that's true in the winter. The last two summers, I did not rain (to speak of) May until October. In short, summers are stunning here.


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## Dennis Griffith

As a side note, Double A vineyard has a ton of info on their website for growing grapes. It includes good basics to follow when growing grapes. You may need to tailor these somewhat for your conditions.


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## crushday

Just numbered my vines. Since it’s been unusually cold this spring, everything is late. We finally had a string of 80+ days and I went out to my vineyard to see. Of the 100 vines I planted last spring, I only see signs of life on 58 vines. Not a great survival rate. I don’t really understand as I don’t think we even measured a below freezing night this past winter. My sister in SoCal (Northern LA County) got more snow than we did. In fact, it didn’t even snow this year at my house.

It was a constant fight out there last year. What the rabbits didn’t nibble on and destroy the deer came after and partook of the standing salad. John 15 takes on a new meaning for me now.


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## montanarick

First off what are your vines? second, it's a good idea to cage young vines and fence your vineyard to keep all the critters from the salad bar. Our vines here in Montana are now just shy of bursting - maybe by next week if we can get the temps up to the 70's


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## Obbnw

It may not be as bad as you think. I had one this year that did not show any life until 3 weeks past budbreak on most of the other vines (only 20 total plants). Hopefully yours are just being slow. Did you get the October cold snap in your area? I was wondering how the October freeze affected my plants. I'm not doing traditional pruning and it did seem like more of the longer exposed canes died back more than expected but I don't have a much history/knowledge to compare it to.


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## Xnke

I had plants that were grafted and callused in februrary, that didn't bud out and start growing until yesterday. I had given them up for dead and basically ignored them from march till now-they're fine, just slow. Some will always do that.

I had many vines that were destroyed by a family member's dog that was staying with us. chewed off at the ground, or ripped out of the ground completely. Some of them are growing back now, two months after budbreak. Even the shards of chewed and crushed vines that I stuck in pots and ignored have started growing roots and shoots. It just takes time.


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