# Ring around the demijohn?



## Paulietivo (Feb 23, 2015)

I need some help on this batch of wine. I have a thin yellow ring around the top of the demijohns. Ive never seen this before and I Need to know what it is & how to get rid of it? Starting specific gravity was 1.1 & final sg is 1.0. 1/2 teaspoon of sulfites were added plus oak infusion spirals. Its 4 months old now & very cloudy racked once & ready for second racking. Not really what I expected at all. there doesnt seem to be any off odor either. & after the first rack it wasnt there but came back In about 1-2 weeks. Is it from the oak? Is it a bacteria? Mold? Thanks


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## Paulietivo (Feb 23, 2015)

The last pic was after the racking. Its not present but came back after time. Thoughts?


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## acorn (Feb 23, 2015)

Unless it has an oily sleek, which I cannot tell from the pictures, it looks like it is a "benign" aerophillic bacteria that got in during the primary fermentation. Try to filter your wine while racking and add another dose of K-meta. Also, it's very important, especially in your case, that you keep all the carboys topped up so as to minimize access to air to any bacteria that can use it to multiply.

What is pH of your wine? If it's too high than you will need more K-meta to prevent further growth and spoilage. 

Use this chart for your reference.







Edit: Actually, I just checked with one of my reference books, and it alludes to post-fermentation residue that is quite common in wines that don't ferment to dryness (which also seems to fit your bill). Either way, I would say it's not much to worry about.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 24, 2015)

Thank you acorn, much appreciated! Salute.
I knew I didn't top up all the way but got away with it in the past. Ill filter w buon vino minijet & I'm surprised that it didn't ferment to dryness. It was my first time using this fresh juice supplier, and next time I will def use a yeast nutrient. The fermentation was vigorous for 4 days but seemed to fizzle out quickly. I don't have a way to test for ph so I'll order some test strips. 
I realize its been 4 months but could I add another yeast pack to complete the fermentation? Or lets call it re-ferment it?


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## sour_grapes (Feb 25, 2015)

Paulietivo said:


> Starting specific gravity was 1.1 & final sg is 1.0.





Paulietivo said:


> I'm surprised that it didn't ferment to dryness....
> I realize its been 4 months but could I add another yeast pack to complete the fermentation? Or lets call it re-ferment it?



If your final SG is 1.000, that is pretty much dry. I don't think you will be able to get any more fermentation done.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Feb 25, 2015)

So what did you make this wine out of for a start? 1/2 tsp KM is a pretty good dose for 6 gall already. WVMJ


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## Paulietivo (Feb 25, 2015)

Hey sour, its been a long time since ive been on here & thanks for that info, good to hear from you. I suppose Im re learning everything I thought I knew. For years Ive never used a hydrometer or sulfites and to be honest I had mixed results. So Im re thinking everything & I now see the benefits to both. Also I use easy clean for sanitizing but now I think I need something stronger. Why has star san been so popular by brewers but not quite caught on for vintners? Is it because we already are using potassium metabisulphate usually?


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## Paulietivo (Feb 25, 2015)

Hi Wvmoutaineerjack. This batch is a blend of zinfandel and barbera. 12 gallons zin to 6 gallons barbera. It is a fresh California juice from www.papagnivineyard.com. I purchased it from www.pardowinegrapes.com in Florida.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 25, 2015)

I think the culprit here was prob 3 things. First, I used the whip wine degasser and it plain sucks. When I was complete I noticed small shavings of plastic on the outside of the demijohn, so im sure some got inside as well. Second, I didn't top these up enough. And possibly third, I used easy clean to sanitize and prob need something stronger.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 25, 2015)

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/star-sans-k-meta-pros-cons-30882/


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## sour_grapes (Feb 25, 2015)

Paulietivo said:


> Hey sour, its been a long time since ive been on here & thanks for that info, good to hear from you.



Back atcha! 



> Why has star san been so popular by brewers but not quite caught on for vintners? Is it because we already are using potassium metabisulphate usually?



I think that is essentially correct -- I think you have identified one of the reasons.

I myself just switched from Easyclean to Starsan for sanitizing bottles prior to washing. (I also keep a spray bottle of k-meta around and use a fair amount of it.)


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## Paulietivo (Apr 9, 2015)

Update. Its been 6 months with this batch of zin/barbera & its been super cloudy. 10 days ago, after racking i added potassium sorbate/kmeta, kielosol & chitosan. Im finally starting to see some improvements. Theres a lot of sediment still falling to the bottom.


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## Paulietivo (Jul 22, 2015)

After super klear i thought i was seeing good results. A bunch of white looking sediment has fallen but seemed to keep coming after i racked it off. I added pectin enzyme & again more sedimen . I filtered once w coarse pads & once with #2 polishing pads with mini jet. I thought it was getting very clear. But.....


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## Paulietivo (Jul 22, 2015)

I keep seeing how cloudy it is. Especially when i hold a flashlight to it. I did, however recieve a Keezer from a friend of mine who moved to california. So now im trying cold storage & it appears to be doing a lot. Theres a ton of purple sediment falling & even some of it floating around the top. Does this mean anything? Does this wine have bacterial contamination? Can it be over fined & still cloudy for some reason? 
The ph is 3.5. I added potassium metabisulphite to 90 ppm. The wine is 10 months old & dropping sediment like it just went through fermenation. 
I was going to filter with the sterile pads for mini jet but is this going to strip it of more color & flavor? Should i add any other clarifiers like bentonite or sparkaloid? 
Should I write this batch off & dump it? 
How long should i do the cold storage?

The last tast i had it wasnt bad but it wasnt great either.
I definitely learned a lot the hard way & will be a better winemaker going forward but is theyre anyone that has experienced anything like this? & whats your advice on this batch going forward?


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## Paulietivo (Jul 22, 2015)

As you can see in the glass it looks pretty clear. But a week later there was more sediment dropping. I also bottled 1bottle of the runoff from the filter & placed it in my wine fridge. In a few days there was definitely sediment in the bottle. Isnt it very odd to have this much sediment?


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## Paulietivo (Jul 22, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> Back atcha!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ive been using star san for my equipment & it is the greatest. How long does it stay good for once mixed?


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## sour_grapes (Jul 23, 2015)

Paulietivo said:


> Ive been using star san for my equipment & it is the greatest. How long does it stay good for once mixed?



Lots of good info on this very topic in a recent thread here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50426


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## Paulietivo (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks for that, good read. Im on point with what the others have said. Any thoughts on this batch problem batch?


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## JohnT (Jul 24, 2015)

10 months is not a whole lot of time. I would not dump it, but would simply seal is and come back to it in about 6 months. Not sure about the cause of all that sediment. at PH of 3.5 and 90 ppm of SO2, the wine should be well protected from bacterial infestation (although there was a serious risk with all of the headspace). 

Do you know your ABV? What yeast did you use? Did you go with an open fermentation?


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## Paulietivo (Jul 24, 2015)

JohnT said:


> 10 months is not a whole lot of time. I would not dump it, but would simply seal is and come back to it in about 6 months. Not sure about the cause of all that sediment. at PH of 3.5 and 90 ppm of SO2, the wine should be well protected from bacterial infestation (although there was a serious risk with all of the headspace).
> 
> Do you know your ABV? What yeast did you use? Did you go with an open fermentation?





Hi JohnT, I should have topped it up in the beginning for sure. I didnt start with 90 ppm but raised it to these levels to try & get improvements. In addition there is no yellow ring on top any more and the wine is clearer then before but, not close where id like it to be. Ive never seen so much sediment. 

The abv should be around 13.5. For fermentation, the hydrometer read 1.1 & ended at 1.0. I believe the yeast was llalvin 118 but i have to check. I didnt use a yeast nutrient but I will next time. It was fresh juice & I fermented in typical fermentation buckets 8.9 gallon with lid & airlock.


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## Paulietivo (Jul 28, 2015)

What happens when a wine doesn't complete fermentation? Will it remain cloudy and/or spoil? or will it be a sweet wine? 
I saw an article on ec Kraus that stated that it can cause a wine to be cloudy, do you think that is possible in my case? It finished at 1.0, perhaps I should've added some nutrient and let it go longer. 

Paul


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## Paulietivo (Aug 21, 2015)

Update°
After about 6 weeks in a keezer set at 35°F the wine has seen great improvements in clarity. The photos show how much sediment was left in the wine even after racking, super klear & filtering. This sediment was stuck to the sides & bottom of the demijohns and the wine was racked off clear. The taste has also improved since the last racking & I'm excited to enjoy the wine after ut has been aged longer. Thanks to those who helped along the way. Cheers 
Paul


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 21, 2015)

Looks like you had a little cleaning to do.


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## Paulietivo (Aug 21, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> Looks like you had a little cleaning to do.



Yes Jim, but cleaned up easily after I let em bake in the florida sun for 20 mins + garden hose & carboy brush + mark 2 carboy washer (free w the keezer & other equipment my friend gave me). 

Paul


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 22, 2015)

Nice and shiny!


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## fabrictodyefor (Aug 22, 2015)

I read through your thread, and I've never run into this, but it is always interesting to read what others go through. The only thing....I do not ferment with a tight lid and airlock. I just put a cloth over the ferment bucket...I think to allow the CO2 to escape? I've learned HOW to do things, now I am in the stage where I am trying to remember WHY I do it! Glad it is turning out for you.


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## Paulietivo (Aug 23, 2015)

fabrictodyefor said:


> I read through your thread, and I've never run into this, but it is always interesting to read what others go through. The only thing....I do not ferment with a tight lid and airlock. I just put a cloth over the ferment bucket...I think to allow the CO2 to escape? I've learned HOW to do things, now I am in the stage where I am trying to remember WHY I do it! Glad it is turning out for you.



Hi fabrictodyefor, Thanks for reading my post. Are you sure you don't cover your vat with your special fabrics? Lol
You're in a good place if remembering WHY you do things is your concern. & possibly another glass of wine will help. 
But, I believe at the start of fermentation it's actually good to have the oxygen to help feed the yeast. This is why the primary isnt topped up like during storage. And actually the CO2 creates a layer on top of the must which then protects it from oxygen for a short time til the first racking; when the specific gravity is low enough not to produce enough CO2 & thus the protection will wane. 

I think this batch of wine forced me to re-learn the whys of doing things as well. For starters I was using fresh juice & from now on at the start of fermentation I will measure the ph, absolutely add yeast nutrient & also top up my wine at the first racking and continue to do so throughout. In addition Ive switched sanitizers from easy clean to star san & kmeta. 
In all my years Ive never had a wine not clear in 6 months time, especially with super klear & filtering. I dont think it was bacteria because I added sufficient sulfites both before pitching the yeast & again after primary fermentation. I think for whatever reason thus juice has an enormous amount of potassium bitartrate (cream of tarter) crytals present. Elsewhere Ive read that they will stick to the sides of the bottle during a cold stabilization. What else could this have been? Lol
Im glad it's over & will definitely take the lessons learned with me. 
Meanwhile I've started 2 grand cru kits to bring my confidence back up. 1 Cabernet & 1 Chardonnay. 
And planning on ordering the fresh juice next month. 
Heres to the next grape journey into wine.
Paul


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