# Go Ferm for MLF?



## spinelli01 (Apr 18, 2013)

Has anyone used Go Ferm or another yeast nutrient to help in a stuck MLF? I can order the Optimalo online, but I have Go Ferm on hand right now. I've pretty much done everything to help the MLF process, but it stopped producing bubbles about 2 weeks into MLF. Chromotagraphy is still showing Malic acid. What are your thoughts?


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## robie (Apr 18, 2013)

spinelli01 said:


> Has anyone used Go Ferm or another yeast nutrient to help in a stuck MLF? I can order the Optimalo online, but I have Go Ferm on hand right now. I've pretty much done everything to help the MLF process, but it stopped producing bubbles about 2 weeks into MLF. Chromotagraphy is still showing Malic acid. What are your thoughts?



Have you checked that the pH, alcohol level, free SO2, and temperature are within the range of the MLB?

It pretty much has to be one of them out of limits for the bacteria.

Are you sure MLF really has stopped? That might surprise you.

I really can't say about Go Ferm, since it is for yeast, not ML bacteria.


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## jimmyjames23 (Apr 18, 2013)

What ML bacteria did you use?


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## spinelli01 (Apr 18, 2013)

pH and SO2 are within normal ranges. Temp dropped a little (closer to 60 degrees) when I was out of town. I have a heating blanket on it now. I've been stirring the lees twice weekly. I saw lots of little bubbles in the neck of the carboy and going through the air trap, and now I don't see anything. Maybe I should be patient and wait a couple of weeks?


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## spinelli01 (Apr 18, 2013)

jimmyjames23 said:


> What ML bacteria did you use?




I used White Labs Malolactic Culture
http://morewinemaking.com/products/white-labs-malolactic-culture.html

Here is their range for tolerance

pH tolerant down to 3.0
Low temperature tolerant down to 55F
Alcohol tolerant to 15% abv
Free SO2 should be less than 10ppm


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## jimmyjames23 (Apr 18, 2013)

Probably a so2 situation. Did you add any k meta? If so when and how much?
Did you propagate the culture?

I've had zero success with white labs wlp675

I have however had great success with lalvin Bacchus. And Bacchus will handle 20 ppm SO2.


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## wineman2013 (Apr 18, 2013)

There are many posts on wine press by people who have had major problems with white labs liquid MLB. 

I'd pitch some thing more reliable


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## spinelli01 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up on White Lab MLBs. I ordered some Bacchus and will add to wine!


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## spinelli01 (Apr 19, 2013)

jimmyjames23 said:


> Probably a so2 situation. Did you add any k meta? If so when and how much?
> Did you propagate the culture?
> 
> I've had zero success with white labs wlp675
> ...


 
I used frozen must and they recommended not adding SO2, but I did add about 10ppm at the beginning of alcoholic fermentation. I tested for SO2 prior to MLF and it was less than 5. 

I have a feeling it is the sluggish White Lab MLBs. Just ordered Lalvin Bacchus. I'm going to rehydrate Bacchus with a starter using Acti-Ml, but not add any more Optimalo into the wine. Anyone's thought on this plan?

Thanks again for the heads up on White Lab!


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## jimmyjames23 (Apr 19, 2013)

The Bacchus instructions say to propagate 10 fold in 7 days use 50 ml juice, a little malic acid and 5 ml of the current wine to "train" it to the alcohol content. 
Wait u til alcohol fermentation is completed then pitch the starter and stir. 
Never fails for me.


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## spinelli01 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thank you!


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## wineman2013 (Apr 20, 2013)

Baccus is an mbr strain like vp31 and 41 
the instructions say to direct innoculate
http://www.lalvinyeast.com/bacteria.asp


But culturing is not a bad idea in difficult musts .
7 days is bit too long , you need to be careful the MLB doesn't run out of fuel and die 3 or 4 days in a warm spot is enough.

Hydrate in 50 ml water (bottled or filtered chlorine free) room temp.
After 20 mins add 100 ml of 50 50 room temp water and preservative free apple juice .
Tightly Cover and put it in a warm spot for 24 hours .
Add 50 50 water and wine 100 ml. Put in a warm spot
Wait 24 hours , add 200 ml wine .
24-48 hours later add to your carboy and add optimalo , stir the fine lees and optimalo in to suspension , then Place in a warm spot under airlock and leave it alone for 6 weeks and then test for mlf completion.

There is no down side to adding more optimalo , you can't od on it , so why not add some?


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## jimmyjames23 (Apr 20, 2013)

That works too.


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## wineman2013 (Apr 20, 2013)

Where did you get the baccus instructions that called for culturing?
It works well to aclimitise MLB but the population doesn't double through culturing like yeast does.

I wouldn't use pure Malic acid as food , unless you paid a fortune for it , most commercially available Malic acid contains man made D Malic and not natural L Malic.
D Malic is unfermentable by bacteria .

Apple juice and wine both contain natural L Malic , which is a good source of food for MLB.


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## jimmyjames23 (Apr 21, 2013)

From the Lalvin rep Clayton Cone. 
[email protected]
He didn't say you SHOULD use this method...only that you CAN use this method.


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## manvsvine (Apr 21, 2013)

Being a direct innoculant , baccus doesn't need culturing .
Why not just use it as per the instructions it comes with ?


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## jimmyjames23 (Apr 21, 2013)

Took almost 4 months to complete MLF the first time I used it. After propagation I got it down to 1-2 months.


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## manvsvine (Apr 22, 2013)

one problem with baccus compared to professional strains is it tends to sit on the shelf for a while.
it could have been a dud culture.

if warming it up and using optimalo didn't get it done in 8 weeks , its probably a weak culture and reinoculation would be a good idea


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## jimmyjames23 (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm sure it was. Bacchus has a relatively short shelf life. Ordering from Watsons and not online solved this problem.


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