# Blueberries



## silverbullet07 (Sep 17, 2020)

I was wondering how do you normally decide how much water to add to the blueberries to give you an exact amount of liquid. 

Example, if I plan on 4 gals of blueberry wine, 3 gal for carboy with an extra gal to use for top ups. I wanted to use 7lbs per gal of blueberries. If I crush 28 lbs of thawed blueberries, and place in fermentation bucket, not all the juices have been extracted. How do I know how much water to add to give me that 4 gals? Does that eventually just come with trial and error and taking good notes or is there a technical way to calculate it? 

Seems if I just fill to 4 gals, When I pull my mesh bag with skins the volume would drop quite a bit. If I pull the berries out before to add water, I may add to much. So just wondering how the proper way to determine the addition of water. 

Also would using a refractor be the correct way to measure the brix when you have a bunch of berries to determine how much sugar to add. Since the berry sugar has really not all been extracted, I am thinking I would get a few berries and crush them up and measure the brix from the berry and somehow calculate how much water I'm adding and then what I want it to be and come up with amount of sugar to add? Am I off base?


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## Johnd (Sep 18, 2020)

silverbullet07 said:


> I was wondering how do you normally decide how much water to add to the blueberries to give you an exact amount of liquid.
> 
> Example, if I plan on 4 gals of blueberry wine, 3 gal for carboy with an extra gal to use for top ups. I wanted to use 7lbs per gal of blueberries. If I crush 28 lbs of thawed blueberries, and place in fermentation bucket, not all the juices have been extracted. How do I know how much water to add to give me that 4 gals? Does that eventually just come with trial and error and taking good notes or is there a technical way to calculate it?
> 
> ...



First, we use a rule of thumb for figuring out how much more volume to make to end up with the final wine volume we desire. It's 65% - 70% of the original must volume. This assumes that you'll lose 25% - 30% of your volume due to racking and pressing. It works on grapes, but is a little heavy handed when making wine that has lots of added water. If you wanted to make a straight blueberry wine, little to no water added, it would take in the neighborhood of 60# to get 3 gallons. 

To answer your question, if I were shooting for 3 gallons finished wine and wanted to have 7# of blueberries per gallon, this is what I'd do:
Mush up 28# of blueberries in a bucket and measure the volume of the mush, which I'm guessing will be somewhere around a gallon. If 65% of that mush ends up as wine, you'd get .65 gallons from it. I'd then add 3.35 gallons of water, for a final must volume of 4 gallons. Check and adjust your pH to be 3.3+, blueberries are notable for high acid / low pH, getting it up to 3.3+ will help your yeast out tremendously. Adjust the BRIX up to your desired level so you get the ABV% you're looking for. Add some pectic enzymes, mix well and let sit 12 hours before adding your yeast.
The refractometer is a good way to check your BRIX prior to fermentation, and just know that it'll probably rise a tad once the enzymes do their thing. After fermentation starts, switch over to your hydrometer for BRIX / SG readings, as the refractometer readings are skewed by the alcohol in the wine. There are formulas to adjust the readings, but I prefer to just switch to the hydrometer.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 18, 2020)

Sorry I wrote this yesterday but never "posted it "
Johnd has a good method for estimating.

You are partially correct. But with or without the juices extracted the volume is correct. What I personally do with my blueberries is start with somewhere around 6.5 /bs per gallon and for a 3 gallon batch I bring my starting volume up to about 3.5+ gallons. More than that is fine, you won't be sorry if you have more than needed for topping off as you rack and age it. You can put the extra in a smaller container and age it just like it was a regular carboy. No I don't know a technical way to calculate it. Keep in mind the water content of fruits and berries can vary from year to year based on weather, picking time and storage/handling conditions. As for pounds per gallon - If I want 4 gallons at 6.5lb per gallon then I will start with 26-28lbs for 4 gallons of finished wine. See next paragraph for my method of estimating ending volume.

You might try freezing the blueberries for a few days to a week, thaw then mash well. After you've done that then, as a test - Lift out the bag with the berries and you can get a crude idea of the volume loss you can expect. keep in mind that the berries in the fermentation bag will lose a lot of that juice and you will be left with more juice than it looks like from this crude test. Remember to do this test AFTER you have thoroughly crushed the berries, not before. 

Using a refractor is fine, I just do the mashing, stirring add sugar and get it to the SG I want with my hydrometer. THAT is on day one of the prep. I then let it set overnight at room temp (treated right from the start of the process with K-Meta to kill bad yeast/bacteria) then on day two I take a final SG and pH reading before pitching the yeast. Most times my SG will rise a few points 1.090 - 1.096 perhaps. The pH is what you need to keep an eye on. If it gets below 3.25 you might have trouble getting the ferment to start.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 18, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Lift out the bag with the berries and you can get a crude idea of the volume loss you can expect. keep in mind that the berries in the fermentation bag


Do You squeeze or press the juices out of the bag at this time to get more juice then what you got from mashing them? Or, do you just leave in the mesh bag and let the fermentation do it naturally? I squeezed the heck out my blackberries trying to figure out how much juice might be in the bag. Then when I squeezed my pears to replicate what I did with my berries, I got pulp all in my juice. 

This was basically how I tried to calculate my additional water for my blackberries i just did. When I first started the fermentation, I thought I had added 1/2 gal more water then I wanted to. I had lifted the bag and I was at 4.5 gal after everything. I was wanting to have 3 gals to bottle so I thought I had added more water then I needed but after racking off lees, I only have 3 gals and 12 oz left. seems you lose quite a bit.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 18, 2020)

Squeezing the bag before the fermentation starts isn't going to help a great deal unless the berries have been soundly crushed to pieces. You would be better to follow JohnD calculations to get pre-ferment estimate. 
Keep in mind that 7 lbs per gallon is a very very strong wine the acidity might well cause your ferment issues if you go that strong, but if you are willing to adjust the pH for by all means go for it. I say that to suggest that if you can get through a second racking (first on end of ferment, second about 2-3 week later at most) and still have any extra wine to top off with, you should be fine. This is heresy to some but topping off a very strong blueberry wine with 4-8 ounces for a 3 gallon batch should not dilute the flavor much at all (8oz = 2% of a 3 gallon batch). That's not a popular idea but.... it will work. OR just use an inexpensive white wine to top off. A white wine is not going to negatively affect the flavor and it will preserve the ABV better than water. Unless you want a very high ABV or you start with a low ABV (below 12.5%) a little water won't hurt for one or two rackings.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 18, 2020)

Thanks. I had to adjust my blackberry because the ph was a little low. So I do have what I need to raise it if I need to. When you use 6.5 lbs a gallon is that a great tasting blueberry? Seems like you recommend 6-6.5 lbs. If I plan on 4.5 gals, that would but me at 6.22 lbs a gallon so right in your recommendations. 

Thanks for you input.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 18, 2020)

It is very solid flavor. I have made black raspberry and a triple berry (Blackberry 4lbs, Black Raspberry 3lbs, and Red Raspberry 1.5 lbs) that is a flavor bud stomper - you know this isn't some nice light wine - in practical terms I don't think I'll ever use that much again - with those types of berries 5-6 lbs per gallon is VERY VERY good.. Blueberry at 6-6.5 isn't going to grab your taste buds and shake them but is is VERY solid in flavor.

Just remember that with blueberry you are going to have to back-sweeten a little. If you like a sweet wine then take it as sweet as you want. If you prefer a dry wine perhaps stop no higher than an SG of 1.005. Of course what matters in back-sweetening is what YOU like, not what someone tells you is good. My first batch of blueberry wine was with about 4.5 lbs and the flavor was hiding on me until I back-sweetened it. Then it was very good, not strong but still very good. I've tried 7.5 or 8 lbs I think one time and personally I found it to be a waste of berries - For me it's just great at that 6 to 6.5 lb per gallon rate. Your tastes may be different and that's what makes this so interesting.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 18, 2020)

I went back and checked my notes on my first and only blueberry I did in March. 50 lbs of berries (it could have been 60 since I kept on adding more) and 2 gallons of water yielded about 6.5 gallons of finished wine, still in bulk. I had to add the water because I used too much sugar and the brix was too high. Not sure if this helps.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 18, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> I went back and checked my notes on my first and only blueberry I did in March. 50 lbs of berries (it could have been 60 since I kept on adding more) and 2 gallons of water yielded about 6.5 gallons of finished wine, still in bulk. I had to add the water because I used too much sugar and the brix was too high. Not sure if this helps.


Thank you. I did read your thread you started on it.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 18, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> It is very solid flavor. I have made black raspberry and a triple berry (Blackberry 4lbs, Black Raspberry 3lbs, and Red Raspberry 1.5 lbs) that is a flavor bud stomper - you know this isn't some nice light wine - in practical terms I don't think I'll ever use that much again - with those types of berries 5-6 lbs per gallon is VERY VERY good.. Blueberry at 6-6.5 isn't going to grab your taste buds and shake them but is is VERY solid in flavor.
> 
> Just remember that with blueberry you are going to have to back-sweeten a little. If you like a sweet wine then take it as sweet as you want. If you prefer a dry wine perhaps stop no higher than an SG of 1.005. Of course what matters in back-sweetening is what YOU like, not what someone tells you is good. My first batch of blueberry wine was with about 4.5 lbs and the flavor was hiding on me until I back-sweetened it. Then it was very good, not strong but still very good. I've tried 7.5 or 8 lbs I think one time and personally I found it to be a waste of berries - For me it's just great at that 6 to 6.5 lb per gallon rate. Your tastes may be different and that's what makes this so interesting.



thanks again. I will be starting this one up as soon as my Pear get Done fermenting.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 28, 2020)

Starting my blueberry wine now. I thawed my blueberries and crushed them and added to my fermentation bucket. The must shows 3.5 gal on the bucket. Refractor measured SG 1.047 I mixed up a gal of water and 4lbs sugar. Added it and SG is 1.087. I added potassium Metabisulfite and will let it sit a while before adding my pectin Enzyme.

Tomorrow I will get my final reading and zero everything in.

What differences does Tannin vs Raisins provide. I see some add tannin and some add raisins. @Scooter68 You seem to use tannin. Have you used raisins and if so do you like the tannin better? Just wondering which way I should go with my fist batch.

Got me a little press to press the blueberries when finished in primary.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 28, 2020)

Looks good - Nice press. *By the way check the pH ASAP that's much harder to adjust, if needed, than the SG*.
I don't add raisins, only tannin. That's based on my choosing to go with the opinion that it makes no sense to add an oxidized fruit (raisins) to a wine. I may be wrong but that's just my choice. 
I did take the 'cake' of pressed blueberries from one 3 gallon batch and use that with some White Grape Juice concentrate to make another blended batch. Jury is still out on that one but that is an option once you press those blueberries.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 28, 2020)

I checked the PH and TA. Right now PH is 3.64 and TA = .3% I will probable add another 1/2 gal of water and some more sugar and check it again. Any idea what this 3.5 gal must will bring in juice. Not sure to add 1/2 gal or another gal. Right now my bucket is 3 1/2 must and 1 gal water.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 28, 2020)

You pH should be much lower especially with blueberries. I've not heard of many, if any, blueberry batches that naturally started out that high. Normal range if you used more than 6 lbs per gallon would be below 3.4. Most folks have trouble with blueberries because they are so acidic not at all unusual for a batch to have an initial reading (before fermentation) of 3.3 or lower. Did you use a pH meter and did you check the calibration on it? That's just way high for blueberries


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 28, 2020)

Yes I know. Double checked the meter and calibrated. These are store bought frozen blueberries. With 1 gal water.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 28, 2020)

I rechecked. Squished up some berries and juice to see if it made a difference. It did not. Ph 3.65 - 3.64. Checked a 6.86 ph solution right on the money. Don’t know where these are grown but they came from Sam’s club. Seems like I do not need to add acid or calcium carbonate. TA is 3 g/l or .3%.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 29, 2020)

I would add a little acid. Best range for the must would be 3.4 - 3.6 you are not that high but.... better to be a little safer. Not a great deal but a bit to get it a little below 3.6 That might be my OCD kicking in.


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## silverbullet07 (Sep 29, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> I would add a little acid. Best range for the must would be 3.4 - 3.6 you are not that high but.... better to be a little safer. Not a great deal but a bit to get it a little below 3.6 That might be my OCD kicking in.



I was sort of thinking the same thing. Any idea why these would not be more acid? Is is difference between tame and wild? Or where they were grown?


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## Venatorscribe (Sep 29, 2020)

silverbullet07 said:


> I was sort of thinking the same thing. Any idea why these would not be more acid? Is is difference between tame and wild? Or where they were grown?


All of the reasons you suggested and probably a couple more related to a water wash they may have received when the processor was prepping the blueberries prior freezing.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 29, 2020)

Hard to say. These days store bought fruit undergoes Lord only knows what sort of treatements, washes etc. Not to mention the GMO on the plants. I really try to stay away from any prepared frozen fruits. Last time I did mangos I tried using the frozen chunks - once they are thawed out you realize they aren't fully ripe mangos so they lack the flavor and sweetness of a fresh mango. So with berries - I wish I could tell you but I'd be totally guessing.


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## hounddawg (Sep 30, 2020)

Johnd said:


> First, we use a rule of thumb for figuring out how much more volume to make to end up with the final wine volume we desire. It's 65% - 70% of the original must volume. This assumes that you'll lose 25% - 30% of your volume due to racking and pressing. It works on grapes, but is a little heavy handed when making wine that has lots of added water. If you wanted to make a straight blueberry wine, little to no water added, it would take in the neighborhood of 60# to get 3 gallons.
> 
> To answer your question, if I were shooting for 3 gallons finished wine and wanted to have 7# of blueberries per gallon, this is what I'd do:
> Mush up 28# of blueberries in a bucket and measure the volume of the mush, which I'm guessing will be somewhere around a gallon. If 65% of that mush ends up as wine, you'd get .65 gallons from it. I'd then add 3.35 gallons of water, for a final must volume of 4 gallons. Check and adjust your pH to be 3.3+, blueberries are notable for high acid / low pH, getting it up to 3.3+ will help your yeast out tremendously. Adjust the BRIX up to your desired level so you get the ABV% you're looking for. Add some pectic enzymes, mix well and let sit 12 hours before adding your yeast.
> The refractometer is a good way to check your BRIX prior to fermentation, and just know that it'll probably rise a tad once the enzymes do their thing. After fermentation starts, switch over to your hydrometer for BRIX / SG readings, as the refractometer readings are skewed by the alcohol in the wine. There are formulas to adjust the readings, but I prefer to just switch to the hydrometer.


ok johnd, after reading your post ,,, i demand you come outta the closet, yes johnd, after reading your post i read between your lines, no need to deny that,,, you are a country wine maker at heart, BAHWAAA, YOU'VE BEEN BUSTED, I'm am so proud of you,,,,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Sep 30, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Hard to say. These days store bought fruit undergoes Lord only knows what sort of treatements, washes etc. Not to mention the GMO on the plants. I really try to stay away from any prepared frozen fruits. Last time I did mangos I tried using the frozen chunks - once they are thawed out you realize they aren't fully ripe mangos so they lack the flavor and sweetness of a fresh mango. So with berries - I wish I could tell you but I'd be totally guessing.


tell me @Scooter68 , so you feel blue berry is weaker than elderberry, i ask this because i have a fermented blend of blueberry, only once so far with blueberries and it was a very over powering berry, i ask only to learn, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Sep 30, 2020)

BTW, i found a fruit stand to get bushels of apples for $25. per bushel, or around 40 to 42 pound per bushel,,,
,,, i have went back to my roots,, for wines from scratch, with a concentrate only for must that i cant acquire from fresh fruit,,,
Dawg


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## Venatorscribe (Sep 30, 2020)

Well done. Fruit and botanical wines are fun to make. I personally enjoy making fresh fruit and botanical wines in mid summer or autumn when everything is ready. The challenges are different to grape and the rewards can be as good - although unfortunately not as well appreciated or understood by the 'great unwashed'. keep good notes- extend maturity times - dabble with the limits -and use wine science to monitor the process. This is what I enjoy most about being retired. But also keep making your grape based wines. It’s what we do. Live would be shit without a good red. Cheers


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## Johnd (Sep 30, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> ok johnd, after reading your post ,,, i demand you come outta the closet, yes johnd, after reading your post i read between your lines, no need to deny that,,, you are a country wine maker at heart, BAHWAAA, YOU'VE BEEN BUSTED, I'm am so proud of you,,,,
> Dawg


LOL, I’ve made quite a few, but only when I can get the goods. I do strawberry wine with fresh strawberries grown right here in southeast Louisiana, did blueberries grown by my in-laws, and my DB’s are straight triple berries, no water added. No recipe followed on any, just doin what we do, only with acid blend, and some different yeasts. Remember my little puppy friend, grapes are fruits too..................Copenhagen.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 30, 2020)

I don't find blueberries to be near as strongly flavored as black raspberries or blackberries. I have no experience with Elderberries other than the juice from VH that I used. I recently bottled the elderberry and I found it decent but perhaps needing a little more time to age. (It's just under a year old) On the other hand the triple berry I bottled this month was/is VERY potent and probably could have been made into a very very good 1.5 gallon batch without any regrets. If I was fired up about it I'd unbottle it and blend in a good Riesling wine and stretch it out but then.... I'd be buying 1 or 2 bottles to get 1 or 2 bottles more....mmmh. Guess not this time around.


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## hounddawg (Sep 30, 2020)

Johnd said:


> LOL, I’ve made quite a few, but only when I can get the goods. I do strawberry wine with fresh strawberries grown right here in southeast Louisiana, did blueberries grown by my in-laws, and my DB’s are straight triple berries, no water added. No recipe followed on any, just doin what we do, only with acid blend, and some different yeasts. Remember my little puppy friend, grapes are fruits too..................Copenhagen.


Agreed, soon as I get my apples processed and in the freezer, then pear, i'll ask about some grapes,,,, what sweetens well, a dessert wine, red, white, any particular types, all info very gratefully appreciated,,, 
Skol-Skal-Skaal-Skoal to you health in all versions
Dawgie


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## hounddawg (Sep 30, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> I don't find blueberries to be near as strongly flavored as black raspberries or blackberries. I have no experience with Elderberries other than the juice from VH that I used. I recently bottled the elderberry and I found it decent but perhaps needing a little more time to age. (It's just under a year old) On the other hand the triple berry I bottled this month was/is VERY potent and probably could have been made into a very very good 1.5 gallon batch without any regrets. If I was fired up about it I'd unbottle it and blend in a good Riesling wine and stretch it out but then.... I'd be buying 1 or 2 bottles to get 1 or 2 bottles more....mmmh. Guess not this time around.


i know blue berries and black raspberries both are stringiest, elderberry, if short term aging tend to be better with 50/50 wild blackberry, but for elderberry to be very good you need 6 to my fav, 10 years aging, 
I have better then 20 bushes of native black elderberry Cain plants, after losing all my fruits and berries this year, come a little cooler weather, to old or to chicken to fight ticks anymore, ill be clearing around everything , fertilizing and watering this coming year,,,, last spring had bumpers crops of everything, blackberry, elderberry, peach, pear, but took it for granted and got zip, that wont happen again, and will trellis up around 400 foot of native muscadine to boot, 
Dawg


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## Johnd (Sep 30, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> Agreed, soon as I get my apples processed and in the freezer, then pear, i'll ask about some grapes,,,, what sweetens well, a dessert wine, red, white, any particular types, all info very gratefully appreciated,,,
> Skol-Skal-Skaal-Skoal to you health in all versions
> Dawgie


Based on what you like, try to get some high BRIX petite syrah, ferment it up to 18%, sweeten it, add some brandy, you’ll have a righteous high ABV sweet port.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 30, 2020)

Somewhat good news for me is that while cleaning up some of the wildly out of control brush on or place I ran across some more Black Raspberry bushes (Saw those silvery stalks). Now if I can keep tabs on them perhaps fertilize them this fall, keep the deer from munching on them.... Perhaps I'll have enough for some Black Raspberry/Blackberry wine next year. This was not a good year for Blackberries for us - just too busy with family stuff to get them all picked. (All of these are wild bushes of course. We have 17 1/2 acres and it's mostly wooded area with a number of small 'meadows' around which the wild berries grow. )


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 1, 2020)

Man this Blueberry is bubbling away. I see what the grape wine makers talk about pushing down the cap now. These blueberry's really make one. Been pushing and stirring a few times yesterday and will continue.


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## xnotx (Oct 1, 2020)

Just wanted to chime in with the high PH and low TA numbers on store bought blueberries.
I'M currently fermenting a 3 gallon batch using 4 LB/gallon and thought I was getting incorrect readings with a PH of 3.8 and TA of .25% ish.
These were frozen blueberries bought from wal-mart.
I just lowered the PH down to 3.6 and kicked it off then hit the internet and did some research.
I came across a Q/A of some sort and they were talking about a potassium buffer that will precipitate out when putting in tartaric acid and not to chicken sh*t out and add more! Oh well, maybe next batch I'll give it a try.

Here is the link


http://www.postmodernwinemaking.com/why-doesnt-tartaric-acid-addition-lower-my-ph


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## hounddawg (Oct 1, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Somewhat good news for me is that while cleaning up some of the wildly out of control brush on or place I ran across some more Black Raspberry bushes (Saw those silvery stalks). Now if I can keep tabs on them perhaps fertilize them this fall, keep the deer from munching on them.... Perhaps I'll have enough for some Black Raspberry/Blackberry wine next year. This was not a good year for Blackberries for us - just too busy with family stuff to get them all picked. (All of these are wild bushes of course. We have 17 1/2 acres and it's mostly wooded area with a number of small 'meadows' around which the wild berries grow. )


this year was horrible for all of my berries and fruits, I'm rigging irrigation this fall, fertilizer and lime come spring, and the orchard way out in the boonies of my nephews friend, he loved my skeeter pee port, so come February, i am getting some big blue berry bushes, 
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 2, 2020)

Man my blueberry wine seems to be flying. I pitched yeast tuesday and it is at 1.005 now. Co2 bubbles like crazy. I quaddrobble checked my starting SG with my refractometer which was 1.090. I did not check with my hydrometer because there was not much juice to check, so I was going to go by the refractometer. I hope it was correct because it seems to have gotten to 1.005 awful quick. I just stuck my hydrometer in the bucket. Will the CO2 gases make the SG seem lower than what it really is?


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 3, 2020)

SG this morning is .990 still has a lot of CO2 bubbles in it. Seems this fermented awful fast. 4 days? Is that unusual?


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 3, 2020)

So the SG was .990 so I thought I should press the blueberries and get it in secondaries today. Ended up with more juice then I thought I would. I got 4 gal that I racked out of primary and pressed another 3/4 gal.

28 lbs blueberries and 13 pints of water gave me 38 pints juice.

here is 28 lbs of blueberry pressed.


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## hounddawg (Oct 3, 2020)

looks tasty

Dawg


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## xnotx (Oct 3, 2020)

That's a quick ferment but juice is juice. My blueberry batch has about another week left to it I think. (71B)


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 4, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> BTW, i found a fruit stand to get bushels of apples for $25. per bushel, or around 40 to 42 pound per bushel,,,


FYI ,,, I can get what is called ”deer apples” for $10 at the grower


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## Scooter68 (Oct 5, 2020)

The term "secondary" is sort of misleading. When a wine ferments down to the point many people transfer it to a carboy where the can put an airlock on it as the amount of CO2 being releasing drops somewhat. That is what is referred to as secondary fermentation. (MLF being a totally different thing not applicable to all wines)
At an SG of .990 the fermentation is finished and the process of clearing and aging begins. The headspace now should be minimal and an airlock used to permit gassing off of the CO2. At this point of course K-Meta should be added.
In about 1-3 weeks another racking is needed to get the wine off the sediment that drops out immediately after fermentation finishes.

By the way if you have not discarded the pressed berries, you could use them for a second batch. I tried that successfully last year usind frozen white grape juice concentrate as the primary juice/flavor. The initial batch was 3 gallons and the blended batch with pressings was a 1 gallon batch.


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 5, 2020)

I will have to remember to use the pressed berries next time. I already put the berries in my compost pile.


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 28, 2020)

Tested my ph and ta of my finished blueberry wine. It is a month old. Ph is 3.4 and ta is 6%. Is this good so far?


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## hounddawg (Oct 28, 2020)

your PH is well in range, your color looks great, I do all sweet country wines as primitive as possible, yes looks like your going good, on all my PH & TA i if the wine needs adjusted ,, i adjust before bottling with either crabapples or triple acid blend, i shoot for a PH OF 3.6 but close is good,,, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Oct 28, 2020)

your PH, and color looks great,
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 28, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> your PH is well in range, your color looks great, I do all sweet country wines as primitive as possible, what are you calling TA?
> Dawg


It is the measure of total acidity. It was 6.0 g/l or 6%. Table wine is suppose to be 6-7%. Not sure how country wine relate to this or if blueberry should fall in the same range.


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## hounddawg (Oct 28, 2020)

silverbullet07 said:


> It is the measure of total acidity. It was 6.0 g/l or 6%. Table wine is suppose to be 6-7%. Not sure how country wine relate to this or if blueberry should fall in the same range.


same thing stated differently, yes you are on target, looks like all that's left is the best ingredient Time,, I age everything, wine just gets better with time, i make skeeter pee port to alow my wines to age,, lol
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Oct 28, 2020)

all wines made that are not grape is a country wine, or fruit wine, 
Dawg


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 28, 2020)

It doesn’t get much better!
I run high fruit so my TA is close to one per liter which forces me to back sweeten to 1.010.


silverbullet07 said:


> Tested my ph and ta of my finished blueberry wine. It is a month old. Ph is 3.4 and ta is 6%. Is this good so far?


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 28, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> It doesn’t get much better!
> I run high fruit so my TA is close to one per liter which forces me to back sweeten to 1.010.


Thanks. this batch was 7lbs blueberries per gal. I had to add acid blend at start since the starting PH was 3.64 and TA was 3. 

just have to keep waiting Now.


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## xnotx (Oct 28, 2020)

Looking good! Mine's going slowwww was at .996 in secondary, checking it on the 29th to see if it moved any.


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## silverbullet07 (Oct 31, 2020)

i have some time but I was thinking about how I may back sweeten. Can I use a 65 brix blueberry concentrate as the source to back sweeten? I thought that may provide the sugar and also provide more berry flavor if needed. Sort of just thinking it through At this point. Of course I would try samples first and use potassium sorbate to stabilize. I like to really taste the fruit in my fruit wines and thought if needed, this may help.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 11, 2021)

I got the blueberry concentrate to back sweeten the blueberry wine. I started the blueberries on 9-28-2020. Last rack and k-meta was on 10-21-2020. so later this month I would like to rack, add k -meta and potassium sorbate and then add a qt of blueberry concentrate. From my samples we did, we liked it when Sg was 1.010 and 1.020 so a qt will but it around 1.015.

can I add everything at racking or should I add the blueberry concentrate a little later. I plan to leave it in carboy another month or so to make sure it clears again after adding the concentrate.

using the blueberry concentrate to back sweeten really bought the flavor forward. Before it had a watery taste at the end and this really helped. it made the blueberry flavor more intense and enjoyable.


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## hounddawg (Jan 11, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> I got the blueberry concentrate to back sweeten the blueberry wine. I started the blueberries on 9-28-2020. Last rack and k-meta was on 10-21-2020. so later this month I would like to rack, add k -meta and potassium sorbate and then add a qt of blueberry concentrate. From my samples we did, we liked it when Sg was 1.010 and 1.020 so a qt will but it around 1.015.
> 
> can I add everything at racking or should I add the blueberry concentrate a little later. I plan to leave it in carboy another month or so to make sure it clears again after adding the concentrate.
> 
> ...


yes on country wines, it takes sugar to bring out the flavor, i when my wine is ready to bottle , i add dry sugar and stir with a carboy stirrer attached to my cordless drill, if you did not add sorbate when you added more concentrate . then it might start fermenting again, every time a ferment ends and before you sweeten you need to k-meta and sorbate before you back sweeten,
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 15, 2021)

How much sorbate to add per gal? Is is 1/2 teaspoon? The blueberry wine is at .990 now. It has been 4 months. Can I rack the wine on the k meta, sorbate and concentrate at same time. I read some say it is fine and some says to rack on k meta and sorbate and then add the concentrate a few days later. I plan to keep it in carboy a little longer in case the concentrate clouds it back up.


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## NoQuarter (Jan 15, 2021)

I would just add the k-meta if your aging it longer. Add the sorbate when you sweeten it with your concentrate or sugar.
1/2 teaspoon per gallon is the recommended amount of sorbate to add.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 15, 2021)

I'd do the k-Meta & Sorbate at least a day or so before. A lot depends on how much yeast is left in the wine.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 18, 2021)

I added 1 qt of blueberry concentrate to my 3 gal and letting it sit now. I k-meta and sorbate 24 hours earlier. Made the blueberry flavor more intense to my liking.


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## Raptor99 (Jan 19, 2021)

I like the idea of adding concentrate for back sweetening. I assume that that will make it cloudy, so how long do you let it sit to clear again?


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 19, 2021)

Not sure. It is so dark it is hard to see if it is cloudy. I will wait a month or so and see if I see anything dropping in the bottom.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 19, 2021)

You wait as long as it takes. That's one reason to chose your additions carefully. You could end up waiting several months if the concentrate isn't a clean/clear one. I use enough fruit with my fruit wines that I know the flavor will be there, it will just need a little sweetening to bring it out and for that I use Simple Syrup 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water. Typically I end up using something along the lines of 5.5 ounces of that per gallon of wine.* That will not significantly change the strength of the wine or the ABV.

In my bench trials I use a plastic syringe and start with 5 cc of Simple syrup into my 8 oz cup of wine. So 10 cc's is a common number I end up with and that translates to 5.5 oz per gallon. That way I don't have to worry about getting my wine cloudy and waiting for it to clear. I also end up with some extra wine when the back-sweetening is done and I get to have that after bottling. (I'm doing 3 gallon batches so there isn't enough extra for another bottle or split.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 19, 2021)

We are only in 4 months so if we have to let it sit another 3 months that will be fine. my blueberry I did 28# for 4 gal. I still thought it was a little weak.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 19, 2021)

You had plenty of blueberries, some folks like to go ALL berry juice and no water but personally with my home grown blueberries that seems pretty wasteful. I get LOADS of flavor and I don't have to backsweeten much at all. I Like slightly sweet wines most times. Sweet sweet wine for me is only if the ABV is really high. So the point is I end up with plenty of flavor at 7lbs per gallon and I only end up raising the SG to about 1.010 -1.004 on average with an ABV of 13-14%.

Not sure why your blueberries would lack taste at the ratio unless they were water-logged. As I said a lot of folks are quite happy when they are hitting somewhere between 5.5 - 8 lbs per gallon so you are right in the ball park. Give it more time.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 19, 2021)

my wife and I both thought it was bland and lacked flavor. On the backend it seems to have a watery finish. I guess we like that bold taste.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 20, 2021)

Have you also checked the pH of the wine now that it has degassed? The CO2 gas will cause a lower pH but at this point you wine should be completely degassed. IF the pH is over 3.6 that could cause a lack of taste/flat/flabby.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 20, 2021)

I did. PH was 3.28


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## Scooter68 (Jan 20, 2021)

Very strange - I've made 6-7 batches using as little as 4.5 lbs for a one gallon batch(My First batch of any wine) but most with 6.5-7lbs and none have ever been weak or watery.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 20, 2021)

Maybe it is just our taste and what we like. We really like to taste the fruit and we seem to like it fruit heavy and bold. 
I've never really drank a blueberry wine and maybe that is just how blueberry wines are. It just did not have much taste to us. Now after we added a qt of the blueberry concentrate, the flavor really popped. It made it very nice to sip on.

We mostly drink heavy body grape wines. Wines with a lot of flavor. I went to a fruit winery last fall after starting most of my wines and wanted to try some like the blueberry, blackberry. And they were ok but then I tried their raspberry and man it's flavor and boldness was great. I had to make some because I really liked it. 

So maybe it is just us. adding the concentrate it put the flavors were we can enjoy it on both my blackberry and blueberry. Our Pear has been clear for a few months and we did a bench trail on it last night. The pear as it was tasted great to me. Wife said there was not much flavor. I felt it tasted like a good dry pear. So in our bench trails she like the 7ml of concentrate added to 150ml wine. that brought the SG to 1.020. She thought that was the best with a lot of fruit taste. So I'll be adding 504 ml to 11.5 quarts of pear. 

Maybe it is the store bought frozen berries I got. 

On another thought, I bought some organic honey crisp apple juice to make Apple wine. Thought I would just give it a try. I started it in Oct and it has been clearing. I racked it last night and I tasted a sample. The finish flavor reminded me of a plastic flavor taste at the end. Would the plastic that the apple juice was stored in had caused that or is this just from being young and not ready?


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## Scooter68 (Jan 20, 2021)

Depends on the type of plastic it was stored in. Are you talking about the orginal container it was in when you bought it? IF it was a home orchard juice that somebody made and sold, it's possible that the container might not have been suitable for apple juice - which has malic acid. It might be something else but that's something to be aware of. Just because one foodstuff came in a container does not mean that ALL foodstuff is safe to store in that container.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 20, 2021)

yes the original container when it was purchased. 
It was *Wellsley Farms Organic*


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## Raptor99 (Jan 20, 2021)

I've been using about 5 lbs. of blueberries per gallon and it has a good flavor. I used fresh bulk blueberries from a nearby blueberry farm, so they were in good condition and had a great flavor. But if you prefer a very bold fruit flavor, you might need to use more. For most of my fruit wines, I have been increasing the amount of fruit every year for the same reason. I've been disappointed with the weak flavor of most frozen fruit. A few months ago I got a big bag of frozen cherries to make cherry wine. I ate one of the cherries and it was very blah. Not even remotely close to the taste of a fresh cherry. I tried tart cherry concentrate and it makes much better wine.

What yeast did you use? Some yeasts such as EC-1118 will strip out much of the fruit flavor. This year I tried K1-V1116, which is supposed to be better as preserving the fruit flavor.

As far as body goes, I add some raisins and banana to my peach wine to increase the body. Those flavors work well together. But I'm not sure I want those flavors in my blueberry wine. Some home winemakers add a little bit of glycerin to add body. If you do that, be sure to use food grade plant derived glycerin, not the kind used for cosmetics. Food grade glycerin is a common ingredient in many food products as well as cough syrup.

The other thing is that most fruit wines need a little bit of back sweetening to bring out the fruit flavor. When you added blueberry concentrate you also raised the sugar level, which contributes to the flavor.

I also make hard cider, and I have learned that sweet apples like Honey Crisp have a very one-dimmentional flavor and do not make good cider (at least not without some modifications). Cider makers usually blend tart, bitter, and sweet apples to get a better flavor. But I have found that grocery store apple juice is almost exclusively made from sweet apples, because that's what people like to drink. I am still looking for solutions to this problem. I live in NW Oregon, so I may have to look for an orchard that is raising cider apples.


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## silverbullet07 (Jan 20, 2021)

i used Premier classique yeast on this one Along with 28 lbs of frozen berries. The TA was pretty low .3% and ph was 3.64 on the berries. Not like wild berries I hear about. I had to add acid blend to correct it. I nay added 1.5 gal of water to the berries.

The concentrate was my idea to sweeten as well as add some more blueberry flavors.


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## silverbullet07 (Mar 29, 2021)

Bottled my blueberry wine this past weekend. It turned out much better then I thought it was going to. Nice bold flavor and dark in color. Taste is great. I thought it may be a little bland and weak but the blueberry concentrate I added to back sweeten it made it nice and flavorful.


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## silverbullet07 (Aug 1, 2021)

This blueberry wine just keeps getting better. It is going on 11 months age now.


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## Arne (Aug 1, 2021)

Lol, time in the bottle. Glad it is working great for you. Arne.


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## DizzyIzzy (Aug 2, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> my wife and I both thought it was bland and lacked flavor. On the backend it seems to have a watery finish. I guess we like that bold taste.
> [/QUO
> In the past I have added Amoretti Blueberry puree to my blueberry wine and it has turned out quite flavorful...............................................DizzyIzzy


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## DizzyIzzy (Aug 2, 2021)

The 


silverbullet07 said:


> This blueberry wine just keeps getting better. It is going on 11 months age now.
> 
> 
> View attachment 77121
> ...


Bluebery Pinot Noir I bottled last year also keeps tasting better and better and time goes on...............................................DizzyIzzy


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## Raptor99 (Aug 2, 2021)

The blueberry wine I started 11 months ago is very enjoyable now. I used 5 lbs. of fruit per gallon. I divided the batch and tried several different ways of finishing it. The one we liked best was lightly oaked, with 1 Tbls. glycerin per gallon and slightly back sweetened. I'm saving a few bottles to try after 6 and 12 more months to see how it develops.


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## silverbullet07 (Aug 2, 2021)

DizzyIzzy said:


> In the past I have added Amoretti Blueberry puree to my blueberry wine and it has turned out quite flavorful...............................................DizzyIzzy



I used this blueberry concentrate to back sweeten. Blueberry Concentrate for Brewers and Wine making

It turned out very flavorful.


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## Chuck Rairdan (Aug 3, 2021)

Raptor99 said:


> The blueberry wine I started 11 months ago is very enjoyable now. I used 5 lbs. of fruit per gallon. I divided the batch and tried several different ways of finishing it. The one we liked best was lightly oaked, with 1 Tbls. glycerin per gallon and slightly back sweetened. I'm saving a few bottles to try after 6 and 12 more months to see how it develops.


Also enjoying one that is lightly oaked with glycerine added. After breathing for 1/2 hour, it really opens up and is very soft and flavorful. The ladies in particular really like it.


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