# Need some help



## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

So, I have several vines that no matter what I do keep showing signs of moderate chlorosis and I'm at a loss as to what to do.

I have a guy who helps me with taking care of my vines and we have been at a loss as to what's causing it. The last soil test I did showed normal results. So what I'm thinking is it might be the specific rootstocks having some kind of issue. 

Malbec is clone 46 from the cahors region of France on 5BB Kober rootstock. All 10 vines are showing moderate chlorosis. 

My Cabernet Franc is clone 312 which has it's origin in France, I don't know where as it was donated anonymously to UC Davis. It's on 1103P rootstock and around 9 of 20 have moderate chlorosis.

It only seems to affect those 2 rootstocks and or vines.

What do you guys recommend I do? What steps should I take to figure out what's causing it.


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## Johnd (Nov 5, 2018)

Chlorosis is caused by an iron deficiency in lime-rich soils, by disease, or lack of light. Seems that an iron deficiency would have been identified easily by your soil tests, so you’ve probably easily ruled that out. Lack of light / sun exposure should be equally as easy to rule out, leaving disease as a harder to determine cause. Maybe send some plant matter off for testing in an attempt to identify the disease.


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## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Chlorosis is caused by an iron deficiency in lime-rich soils, by disease, or lack of light. Seems that an iron deficiency would have been identified easily by your soil tests, so you’ve probably easily ruled that out. Lack of light / sun exposure should be equally as easy to rule out, leaving disease as a harder to determine cause. Maybe send some plant matter off for testing in an attempt to identify the disease.


Do you know any testing labs in the us??

Davis is too expensive to do it. $650 a sample.

I can assure you they are In a area with tons of sunlight so it is for sure not sun related.


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## Johnd (Nov 5, 2018)

CK55 said:


> Do you know any testing labs in the us??
> 
> Davis is too expensive to do it. $650 a sample.
> 
> I can assure you they are In a area with tons of sunlight so it is for sure not sun related.



I kinda figured it’d be easy to rule out iron deficiency and sun exposure. I don’t know of a place, but you’re in California, one of your winery contacts should be able to point you in a reasonable direction....


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## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

Johnd said:


> I kinda figured it’d be easy to rule out iron deficiency and sun exposure. I don’t know of a place, but you’re in California, one of your winery contacts should be able to point you in a reasonable direction....


I'll call someone tomorrow and ask, I'm just worried wbout losing the vines cause extreme chlorosis can kill vines.


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## ibglowin (Nov 5, 2018)

You need a simple petiole analysis during the peak growing season. Cheap and there is a lab close by in Modesto.

http://www.al-labs-west.com/fee-schedule.php?section=Plant Analysis

I would hit them with some fertilizer with iron which will lower the pH and allow for nutrients to be taken up properly and then properly metabolized resulting in green leaves.


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## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> You need a simple petiole analysis during the peak growing season. Cheap and there is a lab close by in Modesto.
> 
> http://www.al-labs-west.com/fee-schedule.php?section=Plant Analysis
> 
> I would hit them with some fertilizer with iron which will lower the pH and allow for nutrients to be taken up properly and then properly metabolized resulting in green leaves.


Thanks for the help,


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## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> You need a simple petiole analysis during the peak growing season. Cheap and there is a lab close by in Modesto.
> 
> http://www.al-labs-west.com/fee-schedule.php?section=Plant Analysis
> 
> I would hit them with some fertilizer with iron which will lower the pH and allow for nutrients to be taken up properly and then properly metabolized resulting in green leaves.


What fertilizer would you recommend?


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## Johnd (Nov 5, 2018)

This should be easy to find, and doesn’t have a lot of nitrogen, which you don’t want to use on dormant vines. 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ironite-20-lb-1-0-1-Mineral-Supplement-Fertilizer-100504935/100598505


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## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

None of my vines are close to dormant,many are actively growing new leaves and shoots.


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## Johnd (Nov 6, 2018)

CK55 said:


> None of my vines are close to dormant,many are actively growing new leaves and shoots.



Then use whatever the F*** you want


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## CK55 (Nov 6, 2018)

This year has been really weird weather wise so yeah, not sure when the vines will go dormant. But thanks for the help


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## ibglowin (Nov 6, 2018)

It all depends on your soil type. I think you said you have sandy soils. I also have sandy (crap) soils but I only have 30 vines to tend to. I use Miracle Grow Bloom Buster several times a year in the Spring and early Summer and my vines look like this.......






It doesn't have a ton of Iron but it seems to be enough to keep my vines perfectly happy during the growing season. Since you only have a few vines it sounds like showing signs of chlorosis you might be able to get away with purchasing something from a big box store. If you have a lot of vines that will need Iron then I would stop in at one of the farm supply stores in the area that sell fertilizers for the vineyards in your area and see what they would recommend.

I found this from a publication on grape growing in NM in regards to chlorosis in grape vines. Good info to have.

_*Chlorosis* in grapes, particularly American varieties, is most frequently the result of iron deficiency in the plant. Excess calcium (high pH) in the soil makes the iron unavailable to the plants. In some areas of New Mexico, there also is an actual iron deficiency in the soil.
Iron deficiency causes the leaves to turn yellow, while the veins and mid-ribs remain a normal green color. The yellow color of the leaves is due to a lack of chlorophyll, the green coloring matter important to the formation of plant sugars. Lack of chlorophyll, if left unremedied, decreases yield, reduces the sugar content of the fruit, and eventually kills the vine.

Iron chelate, applied to vines twice during the growing season as a side-dressing, usually corrects the deficiency in good soil. Soil applications of iron may not completely control chlorosis where vines are growing in soils high in caliche or other forms of limestone. Supplemental foliar sprays of iron chelate at 2 pounds per 100 gallons (.91 kg per 378 l) of water may be necessary. Iron chelates can be mixed with the irrigation water in those vineyards with pressurized systems (drip irrigation or microsprinklers)._


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## Dennis Griffith (Nov 6, 2018)

CK55 said:


> Do you know any testing labs in the us??
> 
> Davis is too expensive to do it. $650 a sample.
> 
> I can assure you they are In a area with tons of sunlight so it is for sure not sun related.



CK, I'd check with the lab first to see what they want, leaves or petioles. I have one not far from me (Ohio) that prefers leaves, is well priced, and the agronomist of staff has a background in viticulture. And he has spent time in CA at vineyards, so he is familiar with the environment.

Also, you might consider applying a foliar spray as it will work quickly and thus give immediate results. Here's a good paper addressing this issue.

https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/...redir=1&article=1884&context=extension_curall


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## Dennis Griffith (Nov 6, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> It all depends on your soil type. I think you said you have sandy soils. I also have sandy (crap) soils but I only have 30 vines to tend to. I use Miracle Grow Bloom Buster several times a year in the Spring and early Summer and my vines look like this.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol, I was looking for Bloom Buster and only found Bloom Booster. Have you used this thru drip irrigation?


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## ibglowin (Nov 6, 2018)

Since I only have 30 vines I just mix it up in a 2G bucket and pour it around the base of each vine by hand every 2-3 weeks. It is like 15-52-15 I think so lots of Phosphorous which promotes blooms in the Spring.



Dennis Griffith said:


> Lol, I was looking for Bloom Buster and only found Bloom Booster. Have you used this thru drip irrigation?


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## Dennis Griffith (Nov 6, 2018)

I suppose I can use my 35 gal tank and apply about 1 -2 gallons per vines.


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## mfzona (Nov 6, 2018)

Check all your trucks. I’ve had Eutypa dieback on a few vines that dramatically affected the nutrient flow to the leaves and looked like iron deficiency before vine died. You will see canckers in the truck wood if you have an issue.


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## CK55 (Nov 6, 2018)

mfzona said:


> Check all your trucks. I’ve had Eutypa dieback on a few vines that dramatically affected the nutrient flow to the leaves and looked like iron deficiency before vine died. You will see canckers in the truck wood if you have an issue.


All vines are clean of any diseases. That much I can tell you.


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## CK55 (Nov 6, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> It all depends on your soil type. I think you said you have sandy soils. I also have sandy (crap) soils but I only have 30 vines to tend to. I use Miracle Grow Bloom Buster several times a year in the Spring and early Summer and my vines look like this.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The guy I was working with went to the garden section of the local miners hardware store and bought a couple products including VF-11 which seems to make it go away for a couple weeks so it has whatever the problem mineral is .


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## Dennis Griffith (Nov 6, 2018)

Weakened (malnourished) vines are susceptible to diseases that wouldn't normally effect healthy plants. It's always lurking in the background. The same is true for most other organisms, including us.


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## CK55 (Nov 6, 2018)

Dennis Griffith said:


> Weakened (malnourished) vines are susceptible to diseases that wouldn't normally effect healthy plants. It's always lurking in the background. The same is true for most other organisms, including us.


My nebbiolo is a carrier of a virus thats not transmittable but that's all that I have going on with any vines.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 6, 2018)

CK55 said:


> My nebbiolo is a carrier of a virus thats not transmittable but that's all that I have going on with any vines.



Umm, what does it mean to be a carrier a that cannot transmit the disease?


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## CK55 (Nov 6, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> Umm, what does it mean to be a carrier a that cannot transmit the disease?


You can't give it to any vines but if you grew from a cutting it would have the disease.


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## Johnd (Nov 6, 2018)

CK55 said:


> You can't give it to any vines but if you grew from a cutting it would have the disease.



You need to read the definition of “carrier”, which you can do by simply clicking on the word “carrier” in @sour_grapes post.


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## CK55 (Nov 6, 2018)

Johnd said:


> You need to read the definition of “carrier”, which you can do by simply clicking on the word “carrier” in @sour_grapes post.


This is how it was explained to me by Davis. What I posted above and they are literally the most reputable source for grapevine disease Info.


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## Joe B. (Nov 6, 2018)

Go with the Petiole or a leaf test otherwise you are shooting in the dark with what nutrition the vines my need or may have too much of. I have used A & L Western Agricultural Laboratories in Modesto.


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## CK55 (Nov 7, 2018)

Joe B. said:


> Go with the Petiole or a leaf test otherwise you are shooting in the dark with what nutrition the vines my need or may have too much of. I have used A & L Western Agricultural Laboratories in Modesto.


I am going to have a test done on a couple of my vines since i have a wide variety about 13 different grapes.


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