# proper oaking from chips



## marquettematt (Aug 21, 2016)

Hi all,

I'm getting my first harvest from Baco and I really want to oak it. What's the proper way to oak from chips?

Thank you in advance


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## ceeaton (Aug 21, 2016)

Put the chips in the wine 

Sorry, couldn't resist. I tend to think any oak put in during the beginning stages of fermentation act to give up tannins and preserve the red wine color you will extract from the grapes. They add a background flavor and aroma but it isn't as intense as adding the chips/cubes/staves etc after primary fermentation has completed. Also if they are in the wine and you do an MLF secondary fermentation, it gives extra surface area for the bacteria to colonize onto. One thing I've learned from mainly @Boatboy24 is to taste the wine as it ages, and when you think the wine has a bit too much oak, pull it off the oak (rack it off the oak). The oak intensity will die back over time in the bottle. There are different types of oak, so experiment. The chips give up there flavor/tannins rather quickly. The cubes take a little longer. I'm going to try some oak "balls" this fall that are supposed to slowly give off oak aroma and flavor for up to 12 months. I've read that the slower the extraction the less harsh the oak flavor will be. Others can chime in about barrels, I don't have one so I'm not going to chime about them.

Hope that helps.


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## heatherd (Aug 21, 2016)

marquettematt said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm getting my first harvest from Baco and I really want to oak it. What's the proper way to oak from chips?
> 
> Thank you in advance



I use oak powder in primary and then oak spirals during bulk aging. For chips, I would put them in after you are done fermenting. That way they have longer contact with the wine.


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## marquettematt (Aug 22, 2016)

Thank you. What I've tasted from Baco it seems like I want to get 4 years worth of aging in 50 gallon barrels.


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## GEM (Aug 22, 2016)

Oak powder or chips inserted at fermentation will soften tannins and help color, but will not impart any oak flavor. Use oak chips, cubes or sticks during bulk aging to impart desired oakiness. Chips giv3 off their flavor fastest, cubes next and sticks take the longest. The latter seem to impart the closest to a barrel aging. Good luck!


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## cgallamo (Aug 22, 2016)

I am trying chips in my '15 red and my '16 blueberry right now. I have read to boil the chips, let them cool and add the water and the chips to the wine. Check flavor after two weeks and add more if desired. I have no experience using chips during bulk aging prior to this, but am trying this right now.

Chris


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## heatherd (Aug 22, 2016)

cgallamo said:


> I am trying chips in my '15 red and my '16 blueberry right now. I have read to boil the chips, let them cool and add the water and the chips to the wine. Check flavor after two weeks and add more if desired. I have no experience using chips during bulk aging prior to this, but am trying this right now.
> 
> Chris



@cgallamo
You don't have to boil the chips. I do put them in several small mesh bags, so that I can get them back out of the carboy without too much of a mess.


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## cgallamo (Aug 28, 2016)

Thanks Heath. I have seen wine makers add oak powder - what is the best source for this. Anyone else add powder during fermentation?

Chris


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## marquettematt (Aug 28, 2016)

On the subject of tannin, how does the powdered chestnut tannin derivative from wine making suppliers compare to natural grape tannin? One thing that I'm also considering is the fact that although tannin is present it hybrids, most of it gets bound by proteins, so I want to add an amount that can offset the proteins and get better tannin expression. does anyone have experience with this?


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## DoctorCAD (Aug 29, 2016)

Most kit wines come with oak powder or chips that go in during the first ferment and get left behind on the first tacking. They do add a touch of tannin and a slight oak taste, but not much. 

I generally add a handful of medium toasted Hungarian oak cubes in the secondary to get a much stronger oak flavor. That reminds me that I need to do a second racking of my Super Tuscan this coming weekend and I need to put oak cubes in the carboy!


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## cgallamo (Aug 29, 2016)

@DoctorCAD (and this touches on tannins as well) - In reading "Postmodern Winemaking" There is a chapter on the seven functions of oak. 

#1 is coextraction - untoasted oak contains ellagi-tannins that break down into gallic acid to enhance color extraction - this is what I am looking for. According to the author if you use toasted oak you will get a bbq worcestershire off taste, and if you use green wood you will get a "planky sawdust" aroma. 

I won't go through them all, but #2 is antioxidant qualities - for which the gallic acid also beneficial. Again you need cured un-toasted oak for this.

So this is why I am asking if anyone knows of a reliable source for cured oak dust (and chips).

Then, I agree Doc - you add the right oak for flavor, aroma, and "framing". I would be careful with the secondary (since you are still fermenting) and perhaps it is better to add the oak during bulk aging.


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## cgallamo (Aug 29, 2016)

Here is a link to the seven functions of oak.

http://www.winesandvines.com/template.cfm?section=columns_article&content=72281


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## TonyR (Aug 29, 2016)

Use the oak spirals, much better flavor than powder or chips, I use 1 8" spiral per 6 gal for a light oak flavor( for whites) and 2 8" spirals for a nice heavy oak for a hearty Red. They come in different toast levels but med toast is good for starters. Put them in your carboy after fermentation is done and you have racked the wine at least once and keep them in for at least 3 months 6 is better, more than that does nothing.


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## DoctorCAD (Aug 29, 2016)

cgallamo said:


> @DoctorCAD (and this touches on tannins as well) - In reading "Postmodern Winemaking" There is a chapter on the seven functions of oak.
> 
> #1 is coextraction - untoasted oak contains ellagi-tannins that break down into gallic acid to enhance color extraction - this is what I am looking for. According to the author if you use toasted oak you will get a bbq worcestershire off taste, and if you use green wood you will get a "planky sawdust" aroma.
> 
> ...


 
Fermentation will be complete before I rack it onto the oak cubes.


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## cgallamo (Aug 29, 2016)

DoctorCAD said:


> Fermentation will be complete before I rack it onto the oak cubes.



Right on! - sorry if I got too far off your original post with the brainstorming.


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