# Concrete Tanks



## FredNiffenegger (Mar 4, 2014)

Anyone ever make their own fermentation tanks out of concrete?


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## jamesngalveston (Mar 4, 2014)

I dont think i would....concrete is porous unless you line it. it also will leech out lime, calcium,etc...not a good thing with wine....
you might be able to line it with some sort of clay product, are compressed blown glass.
why would you do this when you can buy either hdpe are ss.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 4, 2014)

jamesngalveston said:


> I dont think i would....concrete is porous unless you line it. it also will leech out lime, calcium,etc...not a good thing with wine....
> you might be able to line it with some sort of clay product, are compressed blown glass.
> why would you do this when you can buy either hdpe are ss.




I totally agree James ^^^^


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## Wade E (Mar 4, 2014)

I know its what they used to do many many eons ago but we have learned many things since then. Some are just improvements and some are necessities!


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## ibglowin (Mar 4, 2014)

Are you guys kidding! This (concrete eggs) are currently the HOTTEST thing in fermentation vessels. Not so much for amateurs but for commercial wineries and white wines.


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## jamesngalveston (Mar 4, 2014)

those are not just concrete...there is all kinds of additives in the concrete...
so yes..there concrete, but not the kind that we pour our sidewalks out of....there is a difference.


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## ibglowin (Mar 4, 2014)

Wrong again James. These are "real" concrete eggs. And they use the same "cement" available to the rest of us. They do not add any "extra" additives.

http://www.concretewinetanks.com/video/video-03.htm

http://www.concretewinetanks.com/video/video-04.htm

*They are made without using chemical additives, according to Nomblot “from washed Loire sand, gravel, non-chlorinated spring water”, and cement. There is no iron added during manufacture of the eggs. Because the concrete is unlined it must be treated with tartaric acid solutions before use, and tested with a further solution to ensure there is no reaction.*


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## Wade E (Mar 4, 2014)

Well than I stand corrected but it just doesnt sound very food grade to me! I personally wouldnt like my wine in there. Who the hell knows whats in that concrete and what your wine could get exposed to.


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## ibglowin (Mar 4, 2014)

Well they have been used (off and on) in winemaking for centuries. The egg makers know exactly what goes into it. No "extra" additives and it is porous which gives it some very unique properties. They have been using these for white wines for a couple years now (in the States) especially Sauv Blancs. The minerality expressed in the wines "are" said to be off the charts!


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 4, 2014)

Mike 
Thanks for that information - I was able to Google it more and learn alot more on this subject 

Thanks


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## MrKevin (Mar 4, 2014)

Wagner Family (Caymus) has a white wine Mersoleil unoaked that they ferment in unlined concrete tanks. They sell it in a silver ceramic bottle to symbolize the concrete thank they still use today.


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## jamesngalveston (Mar 5, 2014)

Well i quess if you can age in a concrete tank, you can surely use a pvc tub.
Most people dont regard concrete as a food grade material, but maybe the experts do...dont know...
Thanks for the info..i looked it up on the net also...very interesting.


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## jamesngalveston (Mar 5, 2014)

i made some concrete counter tops a few years back..i was looking for a mix ratio and found this video.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfL3kjFhcdM[/ame]


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## peaches9324 (Mar 5, 2014)

maybe porcelain?


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## Wade E (Mar 5, 2014)

Thinking about now it dawned on me that wells are concrete! LOL


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## FredNiffenegger (Mar 5, 2014)

Last month we went to California to research wines caves and underground facilities to plan for our cellaring and storage needs. We had an awesome time and learned a lot about many things including the use of concrete tanks. The wine tasted great, BTW. I make many things on my own and plan to make a concrete tank, also. I would like to know more from those with first hand knowledge. Thanks for your replies.


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## jamesngalveston (Mar 5, 2014)

I have mixed hundreds of yards of concrete and used many different mix ratios....There is no such thing as white concrete, as the inside of most of this egg containers. There is no such thing as shiny concrete...They have to use additives are coatings to get to this...
Yes, they use washed sand, and spring water, etc in the concrete...
I am betting that there is coating on the inside...
Even getting concrete that smooth is a chore, if at all..and then your lather will go to the bottom making pot marks...


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## ibglowin (Mar 5, 2014)

Glad to help. Now if only they would make a 23L Egg!


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## JohnT (Mar 5, 2014)

I know for a fact that the Gallo brothers were using HUGE concrete storage tanks as far back as the late 50's (large and underground). Use of concrete is nothing new.

I prefer stainless simply because it does not crack, is more malleable, easier to clean, and is much more light weight.


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## HillPeople (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks for the video James. Those are beautiful tanks!
http://www.concretewinetanks.com/


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## Pumpkinman (Mar 5, 2014)

James, 
I think by now you know that I try to be fair, and try to avoid becoming the forum police, nor do I need to defend Julie, but...the way I read her reply, it was a simple question regarding a contradiction of comments. 

For something as critical as making these concrete fermenters, I have to agree that knowing who to pull knowledge from is very important, would you, as a member, rather have someone who read about a process answer you, or someone that has direct knowledge?

Personally, I thought that your reply:


> jesus, i made concrete countertops 2 years ago....i started looking at a mix ratio for concrete eggs, and found this video...YESTERDAY...
> WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU.



It was uncalled for and harsh, I didn't see any rude comment, any kind of off the wall statement, or a correction of your spelling, just the opposite, you attacked Julie verbally, I'm a little surprised that Julie tolerated it.

Unfortunately, as Moderators, we do police the forum, not just what everyone sees, even the unwanted spammers that these guys stop in their tracks trying to keep WMT a friendly community, part of doing that also involves trying to correct any incorrect or unfounded info posted, this may offend some, but in no way does it merit or justify verbally attacking a Moderator.


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## JohnT (Mar 5, 2014)

James, 

I do not think that Julie is doing anything intentional. 

For the record, I have greatly enjoyed your posts over the last several years. I do not think ANYBODY wants to see you leave the forum. 
You would be greatly missed!


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## sour_grapes (Mar 5, 2014)

There is a difference between someone seeking clarification of possible errors, and someone being captious. There is a reason that James has been browbeaten into adding caveats and codicils to any post where he discusses procedure (as in "Not advising, just saying what I do.") I could document many instances of hypercorrection, condescension, and faultfinding directed at James if that were deemed to be useful.


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## ibglowin (Mar 7, 2014)

Timely article from Wine Spectator magazine on concrete tank use here in the States.

http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/49690


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## FredNiffenegger (Mar 8, 2014)

Good article. They are reinforcing some of the same ideas I've been reading about, but I haven't heard of people using their own stones in the concrete. They are taking the concept of "Terrior" to a new level. We are digging a cave here for cellaring and storage and will keep the sand we come across for future use in our concrete. My hill is what they call "Glacial Till." It is basically made up of what the glacier scraped off the prehistoric landscape on it's way south and deposited here as it melted. There are layers of sand and gravel along with almost everything else. I still haven't figured out what shape to make the tanks. It may depend on what becomes available as far as molds or forming materials. Thanks for the info.


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## Wade E (Mar 9, 2014)

JohnT said:


> I know for a fact that the Gallo brothers were using HUGE concrete storage tanks as far back as the late 50's (large and underground). Use of concrete is nothing new.
> 
> I prefer stainless simply because it does not crack, is more malleable, easier to clean, and is much more light weight.


That is where I heard of that!!! I watched a huge story of their lives and I now remember hearing about those concrete tanks on the tv show. Thanks John.


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## ibglowin (Mar 9, 2014)

I spoke with Shea Comfort aka "The Yeast Whisperer" at our NM Vine and Wine Conference this weekend. He is about as sharp as they come in the wine industry IMHO. He said there is always going to be some new (old) technology that you can reinvent and charge people tons of money for. He was not all that impressed with concrete tanks and thinks its just a resurgence of something old that fell out of favor and was replaced by something equally as good and cheaper. He said he does love wineries with (way) too much money on hand as they keep him and others in the industry (gainfully) employed…..


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## RegionRat (Mar 9, 2014)

ibglowin said:


> Timely article from Wine Spectator magazine on concrete tank use here in the States.
> 
> http://www.winespectator.com/webfeature/show/id/49690



What a good article. Thanks for sharing.

RR


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## sour_grapes (Mar 9, 2014)

A few months ago, I took a whole bunch of books on winemaking, including its technology, out of our library, and have been slowly making my way through them. Many of these are older texts. (For example, _Table Wines, The Technology of Their Production_, by Amerine and Joslyn, 2nd ed., 1970. 1st edition was 1950.) In those, the use of concrete (or redwood) tanks was considered normal. The 1970 book describes the shift away from concrete towards plactic-lined steel and/or stainless steel as a then-current trend. They identified one reason for this shift was the increasing size of wineries, i.e., consolidation of smaller vintners into larger facilities. (I gather that it is easier to make a large steel tank than a large concrete tank.)


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