# Do I need a press?



## jsiddall (Feb 18, 2015)

I am looking at making some wine from either frozen or fresh crushed grapes. A press is often listed amongst the "necessary equipment" for making wine from grapes.

However, since I prefer new world (fruitier) styles and definitely do not like harsh tannins, is a press really required? Could I hand-squeeze the skins in a mesh bag after fermentation and then re-use them in a "second pressing", perhaps added to a juice bucket, to get the remaining goodness out of them without ever using a press?


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## Rocky (Feb 18, 2015)

I believe having or not having a press is dependent on how large a batch of wine you are going to make. Hand squeezing, pressing in a colander over a pot, pressing in a sieve, etc. will work fine for small batches. I would not want to use these methods for larger batches.

If you are looking for an inexpensive means of pressing, here is an idea that I read about that seems very clever. I have not tried it, but I see no reason why it would not work.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/rubbermaid-wavebrake-bucket-wringer-26-quart/103903.ip?cid=SPOT_4UP_1

I would line the hopper with a mesh bag for easy removal of the crushed skins and clean up.


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## ibglowin (Feb 18, 2015)

Probably not food grade!


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## calvin (Feb 18, 2015)

It's Rubbermaid. Maybe the same material as a brute trash can?


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## Rocky (Feb 18, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Probably not food grade!


 
Yeah, I thought that also Mike, but I wondered how important that would be for the minimal time the fruit would be in contact with the plastic. In any case, I am checking with Rubbermaid to see what they say. I should have an answer in two business days.


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## ibglowin (Feb 18, 2015)

I just poked my head into the janitors closet downstairs at work as I remembered they have one of these. The base is a #2 HDPE which is food grade and the top "press" part is a #5 PP. The top when fully squeezed closed is about 1" wide still and about 8" across. If the one your looking at has the same specs it might work for small lots.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 18, 2015)

This is the way they do it in ND.  It works. I did two 5lb batches of frozen must by hand in a strainer bag. I will never do it again! It works but lots of work.


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## Rocky (Feb 18, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> I just poked my head into the janitors closet downstairs at work as I remembered they have one of these. The base is a #2 HDPE which is food grade and the top "press" part is a #5 PP. The top when fully squeezed closed is about 1" wide still and about 8" across. If the one your looking at has the same specs it might work for small lots.


 
Interesting, Mike. If I ever tried this method, I think I would cut a couple pieces of 1/2" plywood and screw them to the sides of the pressure area to take up the slack. I think that someone on the forum is using this idea. 

Polypropylene (PP) is used in food applications, so it may be okay.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 18, 2015)

That would be a good idea with the plywood Rocky. Yes someone on here did try it in the past but I can guarantee you he is not doing it anymore today since going pro.


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## Rocky (Feb 19, 2015)

*UPDATE*

I had an email from Rubbermaid this morning informing me that the product is made of Polypropylene and is not food grade. Based on this information, I don't think I would chance it with my wines even though the period of time that there is contact is brief. For me, it would not be worth the risk.


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## jsiddall (Feb 19, 2015)

Rocky said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> I had an email from Rubbermaid this morning informing me that the product is made of Polypropylene and is not food grade. Based on this information, I don't think I would chance it with my wines even though the period of time that there is contact is brief. For me, it would not be worth the risk.



Thanks for the update.

I think for now I will stick with hand wringing the skins bag. Past experience with fruit wine showed I could get the pulp quite dry this way so I don't see there being much to be gained from a press when making a small batch.


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## LeChat (Feb 20, 2015)

I have a scissor jack press made out of 2x4's, a car jack, a cherry pressing plate and a food grade 7 gallon bucket with holes in it.

I pressed 432 pounds of grapes last harvest in a couple of hours. It works really well for the price (about 50$, primarily in the form of a scissor jack).

BTW, I am also in Ottawa and could lend it to you if you want to try it out.

Cheers,

L.


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## jsiddall (Feb 20, 2015)

Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know if I go ahead with the grapes idea.

I have seen some plans for homemade presses and I could build a press out of a spare jack I have but then there is the issue of where to store the thing the rest of the year!


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## geek (Feb 24, 2015)

Rocky said:


> *UPDATE*
> 
> I had an email from Rubbermaid this morning informing me that the product is made of Polypropylene and is not food grade. Based on this information, I don't think I would chance it with my wines even though the period of time that there is contact is brief. For me, it would not be worth the risk.



My very first batch made from grapes in Sept 2013 was pressed with that bucket Wringer I got from Walmart.

Take it with a grain of salt but that is the best wine I ever made so far....

I'd try this method again if need be.


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## Rocky (Feb 24, 2015)

I am not surprised that you had success with it. The amount of time that there is contact between the grapes/juice and the plastic is very brief. I don't think a lot could happen in that time if one took some basic precautions. If it were I, I would put the bucket assembly in the sun for a day or so to help with the outgassing of some compounds that could potentially harm the wine. I would also scrub and disinfect the crap out of the thing and rinse it well with hot water. If it works for you, it is a really economical piece of equipment for small batches.


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## richmke (Feb 24, 2015)

http://www.solarsurvivors.com/free-5-gallon-buckets-with-lids/


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## LeChat (Feb 25, 2015)

@Rocky

Polypropylene definitely *can be* food grade. My Tupperware dishes are all made of PP. 

Did Rubbermaid tell you that they were not food grade or are you assuming that they are not because they are made of PP?

Whether they are food grade or not would depend on the manufacturing process.


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## Rocky (Feb 25, 2015)

LeChat said:


> @Rocky
> 
> Polypropylene definitely *can be* food grade. My Tupperware dishes are all made of PP.
> 
> ...


 
Good question. In the response I got from Rubbermaid, they stated specifically that the material was Polypropylene and was not food grade.


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## LeChat (Feb 25, 2015)

I am not versed enough in plastic chemistry to confirm or deny whether all PP is food grade or not. Could it be that this particular item is not food grade because it has not been certified as such?

I would understand Rubbermaid to not want to certify janitorial equipment as food grade 

Hmmm........


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 25, 2015)

LeChat said:


> I would understand Rubbermaid to not want to certify janitorial equipment as food grade
> 
> Hmmm........



That's a very good point. But they have gone through the trouble of having "Food Grade" Brute trash cans.


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## ibglowin (Feb 25, 2015)

Here is a pretty good page on food grade plastics and the difference. They are talking about buckets used in brining foods etc.

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/plastics.html


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 25, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Here is a pretty good page on food grade plastics and the difference. They are talking about buckets used in brining foods etc.
> 
> http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/plastics.html



Great site: I'm "JimK" on the forums there.


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## LeChat (Feb 25, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> That's a very good point. But they have gone through the trouble of having "Food Grade" Brute trash cans.



The trash cans are actually used a lot in industrial food plants to store processed meat/chicken.

I can see the need for a large food grade certified container. A food grade mop strainer? Not so much


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## REDRUM (Feb 25, 2015)

I doubt very much that most winemaking equipment (basket press, barrels) could possibly be considered 'food grade'..

I would have no qualms using plastic mop buckets etc so long as they weren't going to leach plasticky tastes into the wine.

I have 50L of must to press and I'm currently weighing up whether to invest in a little sample press, or try to rig something else up.

Last time I tried to press in a potato masher, ended up breaking the metal and had to complete using bare hands, colander and a coffee plunger. Messy stuff but it turned out OK.


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## JohnT (Feb 26, 2015)

REDRUM, 

IMHO, the cost of a press, even a cheap one, is going to be a huge expense for 50 liters of wine. 

If you see yourself making 50 liters each year, Instead of purchasing a press, I would go with the "bucket in bucket" set up. It is cheap and works well.

If you see yourself making larger and larger amounts each year, then the investment in a press is well worth it but I would consider the following..

Assuming that you syphon off the free run juice, for 50 liters of must, you will have perhaps 1 or 2 gallons of pressings. That is going to be too little for an average size press to process. I advise you to choose the size of press that is right for you. A size that you can use now and continue using for years to come.


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## terroirdejeroir (Feb 26, 2015)

Don't want to hijack the thread, but has anyone seen any plans for making a homemade bladder press? I have done the bucket press, but I am not happy with it after using it for two seasons. Seems like it would be straight forward if you could find an appropriately sized food grade bladder...


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## REDRUM (Feb 26, 2015)

JohnT said:


> REDRUM,
> 
> IMHO, the cost of a press, even a cheap one, is going to be a huge expense for 50 liters of wine.
> 
> ...



Thanks JT, these are the questions I'm currently tossing up...!
I have access to a basket press for larger volumes but for the small batches I was thinking about a little tabletop press, one of these sorts of things:





But only if it's much more effective than the bucket-in-bucket job.....!


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## JohnT (Feb 27, 2015)

Is that expensive? I find that the little tabletop presses sometimes cost almost as much as the larger ones. In any case, that press does look sharp and I would think it perfect for a small 50 liter batch.


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## ibglowin (Feb 27, 2015)

Amazon has a 3L Stainless Basket Press for $120 plus shipping. Looks nice in the pics. If all your ever gonna do is small batches it should work.

Italian Basket Press


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 27, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Amazon has a 3L Stainless Basket Press for $120 plus shipping. Looks nice in the pics. If all your ever gonna do is small batches it should work.
> 
> Italian Basket Press



Or, go twice as big for another 30 bucks. 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EQFX11K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It may be worthwhile to search for a used press. I was able to pick up an 18L press on Craigslist for $135. Very well worth the wait.


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## geek (Feb 27, 2015)

How's this one? it doesn't say how many liters..

http://hartford.craigslist.org/sys/4875324697.html

or this one:
http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/hsh/4874258105.html


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## JohnT (Feb 27, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> Or, go twice as big for another 30 bucks.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EQFX11K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> It may be worthwhile to search for a used press. I was able to pick up an 18L press on Craigslist for $135. Very well worth the wait.


 
Yup, This is what I was talking about. The small ones really do not cost that much less than the big ones. I hate to see someone purchase a small one, then shell out almost the same amount a second time when an upgrade is needed.


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## geek (Feb 27, 2015)

I've never seen those stainless steel ones, looks like they are easier to use and clean? How sturdy are they?


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 27, 2015)

geek said:


> How's this one? it doesn't say how many liters..
> 
> http://hartford.craigslist.org/sys/4875324697.html
> 
> ...



If its as good as it looks in the pic, I'd be all over that #30 in the first ad.


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## geek (Feb 27, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> If its as good as it looks in the pic, I'd be all over that #30 in the first ad.



Sorry to keep hijacking this thread...

Got in touch with the guy in town for the first link, his price is firm at $125 for that #30 press, said he only used 2 seasons and bought a bigger press.
Said he paid like $250 for this press and that it is in very good shape, no rust on base.

What you guys think? Take the plunge?


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 27, 2015)

geek said:


> Sorry to keep hijacking this thread...
> 
> Got in touch with the guy in town for the first link, his price is firm at $125 for that #30 press, said he only used 2 seasons and bought a bigger press.
> Said he paid like $250 for this press and that it is in very good shape, no rust on base.
> ...



I paid $130 for what is basically a #25. Like I said, I'd be all over it if it is in good shape.


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## ibglowin (Feb 28, 2015)

It looks like the basket and blocks have been painted or shellacked in those pics. The wood looks all shiny. You might ask if he did coat them with something and what did he use, was it food grade.

The price is good.



geek said:


> What you guys think? Take the plunge?


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## geek (Feb 28, 2015)

Thanks guys, spoke to him and may see the wine press today, his price is firm but will see if he can take a few bucks off anyway. Is either this, or get a mop wringer at Wallmart (temporary  ) for this 3-bucket Chardonnay batch of frozen grapes next week....


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 28, 2015)

Like Mike said, as long as the 'shiny' checks out OK, get it. Last time I looked, those mop wringers were $40 or $50 on Amazon. $125 is well worth the money.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 1, 2015)

Well? What's the verdict on the press, Varis?


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## geek (Mar 1, 2015)

Things got in the way yesterday and we headed down to the city, so texted the guy to try again today, BUT now it has been snowing up here and will continue to snow until early AM 
Just hating this freaking snow....

Maybe tomorrow....thanks for checking 

Budget is a bit tight now though, so I thought about making an offer of $100 but he said on the phone his price is firm. 
I also noticed the add says "extra handmade dunnage, missing pipe to turn ratchet but easily made at depot". 
Wondering what piece is the "*dunnage*".
Also missing the pipe to turn ratchet but assume any steel tube or something like it should work.


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## nicklausjames (Mar 9, 2015)

If you are doing 5 gallons of wine at a time just use a kitchen pasta strainer. Use a sterile plate or something to push on the grapes in the strainer. Don't push too hard. Keep in mind you may quickly start to do more wine. For example I started winemaking about 1.5 years ago. I went from 5 gallon kits to 5 gallon frozen grapes to to 5-10 gallon fresh grapes to 15 gallons. I bought a small press that was fine for 5 gallons. I used it maybe 4 times and needed a larger one. I hardly use it now. I'd recommend looking on craigslist, ebay, etc and trying to find slightly used equipment. Let someone else pay the markup for the new stuff.


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## JohnT (Mar 9, 2015)

Just to weigh in.. 

Go for it geek! Any steel pipe about 1/2" in diameter should work fine. For the money, I would jump all over it if I were you. 

If you plan to continue making from fresh grapes. and this hobby/obsession being what it is, why spend money on something you will definitely replace later? 

If you do go an take a look at the press, make sure you test out the ratchet. These types of presses work much like a car jack and you want to make sure that the workings move freely.


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## geek (Mar 9, 2015)

Oh yeah........


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