# Pressure Treated Wood For Trellis System?



## vinividivici (May 7, 2011)

Should I be concerned with using 4x4" posts that have been pressure-treated? I thought I read somewhere that the newer process using CCA isn't as harmful as the ones from years ago that had cyanide byproduct.

I'm getting ready to start auguring holes for whatever posts I use. Here's the micro-vineyard with the blue growth tubes:


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## jtstar (May 7, 2011)

If I remember right you want to use the green treated post and not the brown treated post and you should be all right


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## vinividivici (May 7, 2011)

jtstar said:


> If I remember right you want to use the green treated post and not the brown treated post and you should be all right



Thanks! 

Bob


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## jtstar (May 7, 2011)

I do know that they quit use cyanide on the post


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## closetwine (May 7, 2011)

They can't use cyanide anymore, but the "yellow" pressure treated is prettier, but will not last as long, it still rots out faster than the green....


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## vinividivici (May 7, 2011)

*Posts of Many Colors*



closetwine said:


> They can't use cyanide anymore, but the "yellow" pressure treated is prettier, but will not last as long, it still rots out faster than the green....



Uh, wait a minute! Now there's yellow, green and brown posts? 

I buy a lot of stuff at Lowe's and never noticed the different colors. So, sorting through this it looks like Green is the winner, but not as pretty. LOL

Cheers!
Bob


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## n2tazmania (May 7, 2011)

The brown post are round and are coated with Creosote. You don't want to use these. Using the 4x4 post from Lowes is fine. You will need to let them weather a while. I put my post in the weekend before thanksgiving and let them weather over the winter before I planted my vines. I don't really think it matters but I had the time and needed a weekend project.


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## vinividivici (May 8, 2011)

n2tazmania said:


> The brown post are round and are coated with Creosote. You don't want to use these. Using the 4x4 post from Lowes is fine. You will need to let them weather a while. I put my post in the weekend before thanksgiving and let them weather over the winter before I planted my vines. I don't really think it matters but I had the time and needed a weekend project.



Sounds reasonable. Thanks!

Bob


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## fifthhorsm (May 10, 2011)

if i may offer some advice from my own experience: use galvanized steel posts, wood may look nice but they all rot off.... i've used real heartwood redwood and pressure treated posts in the past... never again! the wood posts last anywhere from five to ten years, remember your vines are going to take about five years before they are up for production... just about the time the wood posts start giving away. i want my posts about six feet tall so i buy ten foot galvanized steel posts. at the ends of the rows i've found that a six foot piece of 1 inch galvanized water pipe (with caps) driven in at a 45 degree angle til only 6 inches is showing works great as a anchor to prevent posts from tilting in from weight and time.... it may seem extreme and alot of work and cost but after you have to replace all your wood posts by ten years you'll wish you went to steel from the beginning. dug my first posts 30 years ago so i know how things last....
mike


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## Airplanedoc (May 10, 2011)

I have seen and been on lots of decks that are treated 4x4 set in poured concrete that are rock solid in fact the one on my house is 20+ years old. So they can last a long long time.

That said you might consider the recycled material (plastic) ones as they will last a long, long time and wont be affected by water, require no maintenance, and they also don't change color either. 

Less maintenance = more time tending to vines and making wine


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## vinividivici (May 10, 2011)

I agree, Doc. I put in a deck at my old house back in 1988 and it's still rock solid. The young couple we sold to are now friends of ours and we go back to the old homestead once in a while.

I wonder if it's a matter of climatic differences between CA and upstate NY? I also put my posts in concrete and absolutely no rot above ground.

While I appreciate fifthhorse's suggestion, we were at a winery over the weekend and their vineyard is filled with steel posts, all leaning over. That turned me off.

I'll have to look into the recycled plastics, though. Haven't seen them at Lowe's.


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## Airplanedoc (May 10, 2011)

the recycled ones are more expensive by a good bit but well worth it in a wet application such as docks, ponds, gardens, pools etc.

You pay a little more upfront but don't have little or no maintenance or replacement cost. I believe Lowes brand is Durawood


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## djrockinsteve (May 10, 2011)

Okay my 2 cents. I do remember years ago pressure treated posts had formaldaheid in them and were not recommended for children or near food/plants. I don't know if that is still used or not, hopefully not.

If you let the wood weather a bit to get some of the oil off then you can paint them with an outdoor paint to keep the oils and anti rot stuff in longer.


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## rob (May 10, 2011)

The end post should be 6 inch round 8 feet long creosote.. the line post can be 4inch round and 7 feet long, make sure you use high tension wire. The end post can be put in at an angle with a wire grounded with an earth anchor or what I did is use a standard ....well what I call a H system where you put your end post in and then come in 6 feet and put a line post in and then cross brace across the top, then a high tension wire running from the top of the end post to the bottom of the line post. you will be surprised how much wieght you will have when these are full, also if your growing red grapes you will need to cover from the birds


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## Runningwolf (May 10, 2011)

Well I can tell you there are thousands of acres of grapes along Lake erie here and no one uses steel posts. On the flip side, growing up we had one 100' row of grapes and my father did use steel posts and we did not have any issues with them that I can remember.
Use what the pro's use. They already did all the research.


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## PPBart (May 10, 2011)

If you use treated wood posts, need to specify treatment rated for ground contact. Most treated wood products are rated for above ground use only (check the label on each piece), and how long a post will last buried in the ground may vary a lot(!)


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## CCtex (May 10, 2011)

The new process uses a copper based solution.


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## Sirs (May 11, 2011)

well I know using wood and metal Tposts for our horses for fencing the wood post will last alot longer if you put a cap on them I know it may sound silly but it keeps water from going down into them a treated post will last for more than 5 years if it is put in right. If you don't split the top and keep it covered where water won't sit in the top then it'll last 15 or 20 years. I know as we've pulled post that been in the ground 10 years and still look new.


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## Midwest Vintner (May 11, 2011)

sirs is right. the caps help the tops. i know our fence tops are rotting because they are not capped. you can paint the tops with a clear coat to help too.


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## closetwine (May 11, 2011)

Another thing to look into is pouring the concrete and putting the metal deck brackets into the concrete. The the pressure treated stuff bolts onto that. It keeps the wood off the ground completely... Only thing is I don't know how much lateral weight they can hold that way, but the can hold huge decks up!


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## fifthhorsm (May 11, 2011)

your right about how bad steel or any other posts can look if leaning... thats why i use such long ones... with 10 foot you have to use a ladder to drive them in.... not likely to lean if 4 feet is in the ground... and if you want you can set them in concrete... you can't dig a 4 foot hole very easy but what i do is dig a hole as deep as i can about 2 1/2 feet then drive the post in and pour concrete around it...anyway you do it it's alot of work. but the effort you put into setting the posts will tell with time.
ppbart right about what type of treatment above ground or rated for contact... all types of treatment other than boric acid are toxic and can leach off into the soil. so that should be a concern. sirs is also right about caps they do make a big difference but even a cap is worthless if the bottom of the post rots away.... i think the biggest problem in how long a post lasts is soil drainage... i have heavy clay soil thats slow to drain and holds water underground... we only get rain a few months in winter so thru the growing season have to water... non of which is good for wood. in years past you could buy posts made of things like chestnut or black locust or split cedar heart wood... these woods last a life time but i doubt you'll find any now, certainly not at your local lowes. sometime look good at the quality of the wood used for pressure treatment it's mostly crap... most of it you couldn't sell as regular lumber it's so bad but now with building codes what they are we have to use pressure treated wood in some applications so regardless of the quality it's going to sell..... nothing like making a captive market and having the long arm of the law to back it up. i don't know about the newer composites for decking other than the cost.... have someone along to help pick you up when you faint.
mike


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## Airplanedoc (May 11, 2011)

closetwine said:


> Another thing to look into is pouring the concrete and putting the metal deck brackets into the concrete. The the pressure treated stuff bolts onto that. It keeps the wood off the ground completely... Only thing is I don't know how much lateral weight they can hold that way, but the can hold huge decks up!




Those are only good for a vertical load situation, There is only a couple nails sometimes a lag screw holding the post to the footing so they are easily knocked over in a shear or lateral load situation


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## closetwine (May 11, 2011)

Airplanedoc said:


> Those are only good for a vertical load situation, There is only a couple nails sometimes a lag screw holding the post to the footing so they are easily knocked over in a shear or lateral load situation



Ok, I wasn't sure, but thought I'd throw it out there... Thanks for chiming in and clearing that up! I've never used them for anything myself, but have seen others use them....


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