# Just purchased a vacuum pump. What say ye?



## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

I just purchased this pump. It looks like it could handle anything I throw its way, but hopefully, it will be a good pump for my winemaking procedures. What do you guys think about this one?​ 



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THOMAS COMPRESSOR VACUUM PUMP:​ 

Model Numbers 2619 OR 2639 ​ 

115V, 60HZ, 4.0A 3.5 cfm ​ 

ACCORDING TO THE THOMAS WEBSITE, WOB-L PISTON PUMPS HAVE THE FOLLOWING:​ 

BEST PERFORMANCE CHARACTERISTICS:​ 

FREE FLOW MAX: 6.6 CFM / 187 LITERS/MIN​ 

MAX PRESSURE: 160 PSI / 11 BAR​ 

MAX VACUUM: 27.7" HG​ 

HERE'S A LINK TO THOMAS WEBSITE. THESE UNITS WERE NOT AN ITEM THOMAS SOLD TO CUSTOMERS, SO YOU'LL ONLY FIND SIMILAR ITEMS.​ 

http://www.gd-thomas.com/article.aspx?id=8780&linkidentifier=id&itemid=8780​ 

THERMALLY INSULATED, INSUL CLASS B​


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

Looks nice!!

Make sure you get a regulator for that!!


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

I didn't think about a regulator. What else do I need besides a canister and the tubes. The canisters and tubes will be easy since I'm employed by a very large medical supply company. I wanted to bite the bullet and get one of the medical vacuum pumps we sell, but that is still a lot of $$$ to dump on a pump, but the canisters will be a cheap purchase. I can also get the regulators here at our cost.


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## Wade E (Apr 23, 2012)

I really wish you would have contacted me before purchasing something like this unless you only paid like $20. I dont sell these anymore but have a contact with a seller who sells a great product that is complete getting all the add ons will probably end up costing you same as a brand new pump complete.


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

Wade, I paid $39.00 + $14.00 s/h for the machine, so if it will work as good as it looks, it should be a good buy. I'm not sure what kind of regulator to get for it. Input on that would also be greatly appreciated. I've got the suction canister ($3.00) and 18' of suction tubing ($3.00) so I'll have tubing running out my ears. =no pun intended= 

I searching through out catalog for the regulators, but not sure what will be a good fix for winemaking.


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

What about either of these for the regulator?







Both are adjustable from 5psi to 125psi.


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

This is similar to what i have:

http://www.robinair.com/products/detail.php?id=9465

Except my manifold has 4 gauges on it.


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

Ok, so you are using a regular HVAC set up. I'm looking for something a little simpler.
So, would the air regulators work using them in reverse?


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

Yes i am - it is more complex than it needs to be - but it is nice b/c with the multiple regulators i can actually rack multiple carboys at once..

Just as long as you can regulate it - a guage by itself that reads mercury being pulled will not work - you need to be able to control how much mercury you are pulling.


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

Both of those gauges in my post above are combined gauge and regulator. They are pressure regulators but it seems that if you use the outlet for the inlet, it would work with a vacuum.


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

You could - but not sure how many PSI correlates to 18" mercury being pulled.


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks for all of the responses, winemaker! I'll do some more research.


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

This might help:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/vacuum-converter-d_460.html


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

A conversion tool:

http://www.convertunits.com/from/inch+of+mercury/to/pounds+per+square+inch


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

Based on the conversion tool - for 18" of mercury = about 8.8 PSI.


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

Fantastic! Thanks for doing the leg work, winemaker!


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

Sure thing!!!


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## Wade E (Apr 23, 2012)

Im honestly not sure what regulator would fit on that pump so Im of no help there. Youll want a hydrophobic filter also. How much is the regulator you are looking at? Just so you know I could give you a link to a brand new pump with everything including shipping for $109.


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## winemaker_3352 (Apr 23, 2012)

Wade E said:


> Im honestly not sure what regulator would fit on that pump so Im of no help there. Youll want a hydrophobic filter also. How much is the regulator you are looking at? Just so you know I could give you a link to a brand new pump with everything including shipping for $109.



Is the hydrophobic filter just to protect the pump from moisture?


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## SpoiledRotten (Apr 23, 2012)

Wade E said:


> Im honestly not sure what regulator would fit on that pump so Im of no help there. Youll want a hydrophobic filter also. How much is the regulator you are looking at? Just so you know I could give you a link to a brand new pump with everything including shipping for $109.


 
Wade, the two regulators shown above are 8.00 and 10.00 each. I'd surely like to see the link you're referring to. If I like that better, I can always resell this vacuum on ebay.


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## Wade E (Apr 23, 2012)

8 and 10 each with dial, go for it then! Ive never ever seen one of these below like $40!


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 23, 2012)

That is a nice pump, but I would be afraid that it is too powerfull - that it may pull a vacuum too fast and possibily crack the carboy as well.


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## Wade E (Apr 23, 2012)

Guys, you may look at the All in One and think its more money then you want top spend but its effortless and ready to bottle your wine and degas as is!!! Add a filter and you are all set!!! Its what I would do and I have a vacuum pump system.


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## Chiumanfu (May 5, 2012)

winemaker_3352 said:


> Is the hydrophobic filter just to protect the pump from moisture?



Yes, more specifically humidity. I'm not too sure that they are needed for our application. They are always included with medical aspirators because the application demands it. A medical aspirator is used to pull mucus and phlegm. The air is extremely high humidity and it operates constantly.

In the case of transferring wine, the air is relatively low humidity and the usage is brief.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 5, 2012)

Wow that carboy adapter from Valley Vitner is 9.95 plus shipping of 8.80 for a grand total of *18.75 dollars* !
I sell them complete including shipping for* 8.00 dollars only*. 
As far as the *Wine bottle vacuum reservoir convertion kit* $10.00 + $3.00 shipping
- custom drilled tapered stopper that will aid in preventing liquid from entering the pump, 3/16’’ or 1/4’’ inlet – 1/4’’ outlet ) 
You can purchase a small piece of 3’’ pvc pipe and a floor mount and you are ready to go - it is really hard and you will need special tools to try to drill these rubber bungs.
http://allinonewinepump.com/accessories.html

As far as the filter housing - here is a complete list (thanks Wade)

I also sell the complete bottling set-up as well *Vacuum Wine bottling set-up* $35.00 + $7.00 shipping , see website for more details

For those of us that are less handy - the allinone includes everyting except the filter system, which is the link above and works extremely well with the allinone as well.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 6, 2012)

Those custom drilled stoppers are not easy to come by. Typically I only know of 2 places that sells them because they are labor intense to make it out of the pure gum tappered stopper (food grade)

I went to http://www.widgetco.com/ and they only seem to carry EPDM Rubber (black in color) which did not mention whether it is food grade or not. I also noticed that they do not carry the 6.5 bungs as well. If they are the standard black rubber stoppers, they tend to have a permament smell of rubber associated with them . You still have to try and drill them to the proper size as well.


I also have purshased filters from McMaster Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/#45235k94/=eys0fr
which also carries .35 micron filter for around 12 dollars if you wanted to be sterile.I have never needed myself less than a 1 micron and time for any white wine,I believe that it does take out some taste along the way. but if you have a bacteria problem or such then defintley go with .35 micron


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## BobF (May 6, 2012)

After a couple of attempts trying to make my 2-hole stoppers, I ordered a couple of these. Spendy, but VERY handy - and the hole sizes make sense. I wouldn't just order these as the shipping makes them darned expensive, but if you're ordering other stuff along with them it's not too bad.
http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/16654//Stopper_-_#65_Drilled_1_3_8"_hole_and_1_1_4"_hole


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## vacuumpumpman (May 6, 2012)

Yes ; Bob they can be a pain trying to drill without the proper tools. Those are the only 2 places that I know that sells ( besides me ) the custom 2 hole stoppers.I contacted morewine when I wanted to upgrade from the universal carboy adapter to the 6.5 tappered bunge - but they were sold out and they mentioned it was going to be awhile before they were able to make any.

So that is when I decided to buy the proper tools and start making my own 
*Tapered Stopper #6.5 - 2 HOLE - Pure White* $5.00 + $3.00 shipping
http://allinonewinepump.com/accessories.html

I do also make all other sizes bungs as well - just contact me and tell me what you are looking for


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## BobF (May 6, 2012)

Steve - I misunderstood. I thought you were recommending the black ones with two small holes. You're making/selling the *useful* ones! That's great news.

I already had all of my vacuum equip together before you made yours available. I'll be checking you out if/when I need replacements.

BTW, is your bottling doohikkey self-stopping when the bottle is full?


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## vacuumpumpman (May 6, 2012)

No it is not self stopping - considering it only takes 15 seconds to fill a bottle and it is only 42 dollars with US shipping - and no moving parts to service - means it is good for long term.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 7, 2012)

MartyYule said:


> Don't get rid of that pump yet. A homebuilt stand and a enolmatic nozzle,lever, spring setup from St Pats and you have an Enolmatic for about 100.00 dollars.
> 
> Add a filter cartridge housing for about 20 bucks
> 
> ...


 
Not getting rid of this pump! It works wonderful. I went to Lowes and picked up various poly(plastic) fittings to go from 1/4" IPS to vinyl tubing, I didn't have to look very far for a suction gauge, since I figured out that the hand pump (brake bleeder) that I bought for 30.00 had one on it. I only had to unscrew it from there and put it on my regulator. I also mounted my pump inside the "supplies" closet and attached enough tubing to reach anywhere in the "lab" I needed it. I also cut various lengths of vinyl tubing to use between the suction canister and the carboys. 

I got a chance to use it to de-gas and man, what a difference it makes. I also used it once to rack from one carboy to another. When it first started transferring the wine, I cut it off real fast and went to YouTube and watched a vid of someone else transferring to see if the vigorous bubbling action was normal. It was in the video anyway, so I cranked the pump back up and let her go! So far, it was a really good investment. Now, I have to get a whole house filter to add to the set-up.

I do need to get a couple of the double hole bungs now and add a length to my racking cane so it will reach "almost" to the sediment in the taller carboys.


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## Chiumanfu (May 7, 2012)

Enjoy your new vacuum setup! Show us pics of your final configuration.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 7, 2012)

Will do, Chiumanfu!


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## vacuumpumpman (May 7, 2012)

I went to the website http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/...ers/2.75"-x-9.75"-Flow%2dMax-Pleated-Filters/ 
and it appears that they changed brands and the prices also went up as well and they do not sell the .35 micron filter as well, unless I missed a link somewhere ?


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## SpoiledRotten (May 8, 2012)

http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-1345-9-34-x-2-34-flow-max-pleated-poly-035-mic.aspx

$7.76/each!


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## ibglowin (May 8, 2012)

Whats that old saying "if something sounds too good to be true it usually is".

Great price but not quite sure I believe this will filter to 0.35u.......

So who is going to be the first one to buy some of these, filter, backsweeten without adding any sorbate and be the guinea pig to see if fermentation takes back off in the bottle making bottle bombs?


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## ibglowin (May 8, 2012)

Here is some information about "nominal vs absolute" filter ratings. This .35u filter is .35 "nominal" not "absolute"

Nominal vs Absolute Filter Ratings


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## vacuumpumpman (May 8, 2012)

I must agree with Marty ^


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## ibglowin (May 8, 2012)

Many winemakers will be interested in the .35u filters because they will want to try and use it for for sterile filtering. 

I just wanted to point out that this filter while good/great for polishing may have inconsistent or mixed results at best if you were attempting to use it for sterile filtering. Thats all!


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## SpoiledRotten (May 8, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Whats that old saying "if something sounds too good to be true it usually is".
> 
> Great price but not quite sure I believe this will filter to 0.35u.......
> 
> So who is going to be the first one to buy some of these, filter, backsweeten without adding any sorbate and be the guinea pig to see if fermentation takes back off in the bottle making bottle bombs?


 
Mike, why would someone bottle without sorbate anyway? Is that what filtering is supposed to do, keep you from adding chemicals? I thought it was simply to remove particles that were come back as sediment in the bottles. Hey, I'm still learning this stuff!


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## ibglowin (May 8, 2012)

There is filtering (as in polishing the wine what most of us do) and then there is sterile filtering. Typically 0.5u or less absolute. This is usually done in commercial wineries to remove the yeast so they don't need to use sorbate or they could also stop a fermentation at a given SG by removing the yeast as well making the need to back sweeten unnecessary. Large commercial wineries will actually purchase industrial size centrifuges to remove yeast, sediment, etc. Pretty cool technology!


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## SpoiledRotten (May 8, 2012)

Thanks for the expert explanation, Mike. I guess at this stage in my wine making, I'll use it for polishing as well. 
When I grow up. I want to be like you.


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## BobF (May 8, 2012)

SpoiledRotten said:


> Thanks for the expert explanation, Mike. I guess at this stage in my wine making, I'll use it for polishing as well.
> When I grow up. I want to be like you.



You don't really mean that!


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## ibglowin (May 8, 2012)

Sure he does!


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## SpoiledRotten (May 9, 2012)

You guys are crazy.


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## ibglowin (May 9, 2012)

31 years in Analytical Chemistry.......

They don't call it "Mad Scientist" for nothing!


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## rhoffart (May 9, 2012)

Randy, please be careful. I have been in the A/C business for 30 years. That pump is able to pull a 30" vacuum, or on a micron scale down to 500 microns. We once pulled a vacuum on a 55 gallon steel drum and it was sucked flat like an aluminum coke can. I have no doubt you can implode a carboy with that baby.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogY7rRIdrxI[/ame]


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## bzac (May 10, 2012)

MartyYule said:


> I understand your concern but a sterile bottling line is quite impossible for an amateur to achieve regardless if the filter is absolute or not. I have used these filters and they have done a great job in achieving the level of polish I was after. Especially for the price. My wines were dry whites. If I were making I sweet wine I would use Sorbate no matter what.



I absolutely agree , anyone bottleing a sweet wine with a home filter and no sorbate is making hand grenades


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## SpoiledRotten (May 10, 2012)

Thanks rhoffart. I do have a regulator on it and on another note, I haven't put a vacuum on a bottle and walked off for over 20 minutes at a time. I don't allow a full powered vacuum on the carboys for a main reason that I don't want the frothing and the pulling of the foam/liquid out of the vessel that takes place with a more aggressive vacuum, so I regulate the amount to around 15". That pulls lots of gas out of the wine. I don't have problems leaving some of the gas in it anyway. I cork and then top off with the shrink caps and those pretty well lock the corks in.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 10, 2012)

What can I expect from using a .35 micron filter on fruit wine? I've got one coming for the whole house filter I ordered. Should I not use one that fine?


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## BobF (May 10, 2012)

Is that .35u absolute, nominal, or mean?


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## rhoffart (May 10, 2012)

SpoiledRotten said:


> What can I expect from using a .35 micron filter on fruit wine? I've got one coming for the whole house filter I ordered. Should I not use one that fine?



no clue ... I use a 1 micron on white and 5 micron on red only that is what i was told here. Makes sense you don't want to filter too much from a red. I say fruit would be like red ... 5 micron would be the one I would choose.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 10, 2012)

BobF said:


> Is that .35u absolute, nominal, or mean?


 
I really don't know, Bob. Does this tell you anything. It the one in one of my previous posts.











*Model: *Flow-Max Standard
*Part Number: *FM-0.35-975
*Alt. Part Number: *801-.35W


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## SpoiledRotten (May 10, 2012)

MartyYule said:


> I assume you have little experience filtering. You cannot filter for the first pass with a .35 and expect very much volume to pass before the filter closes down. Even a somewhat clear white will clog a .35 rapidly. Usually I start with a 1micon or a .5 if I have less volume to filter. The .35 is used at bottling to get that extra shine.
> I am usually satisfied with a 1 micron for reds at bottling. This is not to clear the wine but to make sure any missed sediment is not introduced in the bottle. A fruit wine could have lots of pectin. I am assuming you use a pectic enzyme to help settle and clear the wine. Pectic Enzymes are used to increase yield and help in filtering. With Whites again Fruit or Grape, fining with at least Bentonite and possibly a 2 step fining as a second line of defense is necessary before you use a .35.
> My regime is to filter with 1 micron out of the fermenting tank while transferring it to another tank for fining. Then after an evaluation is made on the clarity and the wine is ready to bottle I use the .35 As far as taking away from a red by filtering we can have that argument until the cows come home. In my experience 1 micron has not altered any of my wines.


 
Your assumption is absolutely correct in that I have NO experience in filtering. I believe I'll go with the 5 micron filters and let the .35s sit around for a while until I see a need for them.


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## rhoffart (May 10, 2012)

Marty, sorry to hear about your cows.


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## Runningwolf (May 10, 2012)

In the past I filtered all of my wines (red and whites) at home only with a .45 micron. I have never had any issues. With that said my wines are racked numerous times, I use super kleer on all of them and when I filter there is no sediment. I agree if you're going to use a tight filter, ensure there is no sediment at all. 

Now about the cows...Yes your first couple of bottles (red's) will be lighter then the rest of the batch. Contributing to this would be the filter and sanitizing solution residue in the filter, hoses and filler. I always dump the first 2-3 bottles back into the main batch. After that there is no issue in flavor or color. By doing this, I have no worries about color or flavor regardless of the size filter I am using.

In a few months I'll be bottling my country apple and plan on using a .2 filter. Last year I had one bottle pop a cork out of 90 and heard others talk about apple popping corks. This will be sort of an experiment since I have about 30 gallons to bottle.

I hope this helps and I'm open to any comments.


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## Runningwolf (May 11, 2012)

Marty, thanks that is great information I did not know anything about. Is it worthwhile to do an MLF on apple wine in the future? This is all started with unpasturized apple cider.


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## grapeman (May 11, 2012)

Dan I used to have a saying when making apple wine. Mallo for Mellow. By that I meant that letting apple wine go through MLF would result in a much softer, more mellow wine. To me apple wine is a bit harsh on its own, so I let it go through mlf before bottling. Check the malic acid levels and see how high they are. Some apples are much higher than others.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 20, 2012)

When you guys de-gas with your pump, does your line collapse or do you use a special medical non-crushable tube? Mine is pulling a vacuum but the lines are collapsing on me in the process.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 20, 2012)

SpoiledRotten said:


> When you guys de-gas with your pump, does your line collapse or do you use a special medical non-crushable tube? Mine is pulling a vacuum but the lines are collapsing on me in the process.


 
Yes you have to buy the thicker wall tubing - not normally sold at most wine stores - typically only sold in 100 foot rolls.


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## Chiumanfu (May 20, 2012)

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100115367/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053

This is what I used in my DIY.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 21, 2012)

Thanks guys!


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## garymc (Jun 15, 2012)

I have one more suggestion for you. When you're using that pump, keep a window open so if it gets away from you, your house won't collapse.


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## Hokapsig (Jul 2, 2012)

ok, so I finally used my pump to rack a mess of wines this evening. Being mechanically challenged, it took me a minute or two to figure out the set up. But once I got everything together, it operated as advertised. I made quick work of 6 different wines in 45 minutes. 

The next task will be to figure out how to bottle.


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## Born2Wine (Jul 9, 2012)

Hokapsig,
What vacuum pump do you use? I am thinking of buying a vacuum pump. I use Better Bottles so I know I have allowances I'll need to make. My biggest obstacle will be in degassing.


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## Born2Wine (Jul 9, 2012)

*looking for a vacuum system*



Wade E said:


> I really wish you would have contacted me before purchasing something like this unless you only paid like $20. I dont sell these anymore but have a contact with a seller who sells a great product that is complete getting all the add ons will probably end up costing you same as a brand new pump complete.


 

Wade,
Who is your contact for setting up a vacuum pump with all the add ons? I use Better Bottle carboys and use a mini Buon Filter system.

Born2wine


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## Hokapsig (Jul 10, 2012)

Born2Wine said:


> Hokapsig,
> What vacuum pump do you use? I am thinking of buying a vacuum pump. I use Better Bottles so I know I have allowances I'll need to make. My biggest obstacle will be in degassing.


 
I got the All in one vac pump, which I can highly endorse. Even for someone as mechanically challenged as me, I was able to set up and have used it to make quick work of degassing and transferring wines. See vaccuumpumpman on this site. Best money ever spent for father's day...


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## saramc (Jul 11, 2012)

Unfortunately vacuum pumps cannot be used with Better Bottles...not for their full intent and purposes anyway. You will collapse the Better Bottle when you apply a pressure to it. I told Steve of All In One the only thing he needs to figure out is how we can use Better Bottles with vacuum pumps. So I always keep a few glass carboys around.


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