# My first taste of Norton led to some grape research



## jswordy (Jun 17, 2013)

Well, it turns out that I got my first taste of Norton wine over the weekend. It was made by White Oak Vineyards (http://southernoakwines.com), which is just about 138 miles from me, by the winemaker, who is a UC-Davis grad! And Randal Wilson prints his name as winemaker on every back label of every bottle.

So it turns out Randal is involved in some research between Auburn University and UC-Davis about a Pierce's disease resistant vinifera trial in Alabama.

Here's a 2011 article....

http://www.winesandvines.com/template.cfm?section=news&content=83010

I emailed the winery and he's very open to talking about his 10 years of winemaking there so we will have to plan a trip down there real soon.

After all the roadblocks to shipping, finally! The irony is that I found my nearby Norton by utter chance online, and actually picked up the bottles at a Super Target store.


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## robie (Jun 17, 2013)

Norton is a little different grape and makes a super wine. Very different from the typical vinifera. 

It is one of my favorites.


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## GreginND (Jun 18, 2013)

One of the best ruby ports I've ever had was made from norton at a winery in MO. It's a mighty fine grape.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Jun 18, 2013)

Living in Missouri where Norton is the state grape, I have has some good and some bad, like a lot of wines. I tend to play with mine to reduce the tartness by acid adjusting and a minimum of two years bulk aging in the carboy. Its an interesting grape to make wine with, so dark I had problems using an acid test kit so went with a Ph meter. Its a lot of skin and seeds. One batch, 100# of grapes, ended up with just less than 5 gallons and had to add water to stir it in the primary. Ended with 4" of seeds in the bottom of a 7.9 gallon bucket.
Trying to make a Norton taste like a Cab. is pretty challenging. lol


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## jswordy (Jun 18, 2013)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> Living in Missouri where Norton is the state grape, I have has some good and some bad, like a lot of wines. I tend to play with mine to reduce the tartness by acid adjusting and a minimum of two years bulk aging in the carboy. Its an interesting grape to make wine with, so dark I had problems using an acid test kit so went with a Ph meter. Its a lot of skin and seeds. One batch, 100# of grapes, ended up with just less than 5 gallons and had to add water to stir it in the primary. Ended with 4" of seeds in the bottom of a 7.9 gallon bucket.
> Trying to make a Norton taste like a Cab. is pretty challenging. lol



I might be hitting ya up for tips, Doug! I was going to do 120 pounds into 5 gallons, which is around my usual muscadine ratio. Wish I had a destemmer available - ha, not around here! So it'll all be hand done. 

The Southern Oak Wines bottle I had was 2 years old. Dry (I bought 2 bottles so I can get the final sg off the other one) and tannic, but not so tannic that it wasn't drinkable. I think he was shooting for a tannin level that would work out after 2 years aging but support many more in the cellar, and I think he achieved that. It had excellent structure.

I added a bit of sugar in one glass and the flavor just fell flat. It was like all the structure evaporated, so I'm definitely looking at a dry wine effort. I've heard so much about how it's picky, etc., so I am looking forward to trying it. If it falls short, I can always blend it with a sweet muscadine. But my hopes are high, as I would like to have 3 or 4 vines of Norton growing on the farm one day. I like having the wine be 100% Made in America.


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## GaDawg (Jun 18, 2013)

You should also look at the 2 other Pierce's disease resistant vinifera that grow in the south, Blanc Du Bois and Lenoir. 

A lot of people do not realize that in the 1890s, west Georgia and east Alabama were a major grape growing and wine production area, with 20,000 acres of grapes. But the 1907 Georgia prohibition laws shut down the industry.


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## jswordy (Jun 18, 2013)

GaDawg said:


> You should also look at the 2 other Pierce's disease resistant vinifera that grow in the south, Blanc Du Bois and Lenoir.
> 
> A lot of people do not realize that in the 1890s, west Georgia and east Alabama were a major grape growing and wine production area, with 20,000 acres of grapes. But the 1907 Georgia prohibition laws shut down the industry.



Not really a white wine type. I'll keep the Lenoir in mind if I should run across any nearby vineyards with it. Frankly, Norton appeals due to taste and also because it is American.


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## JohnT (Jun 18, 2013)

Jim, 

The next book on your reading list should be .. "The Wild Vine" by Todd Kliman. Takes you through the history of the Norton Grape. 

johnT.


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## jswordy (Jun 18, 2013)

JohnT said:


> Jim,
> 
> The next book on your reading list should be .. "The Wild Vine" by Todd Kliman. Takes you through the history of the Norton Grape.
> 
> johnT.



Already read it, John.


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## robie (Jun 18, 2013)

jswordy said:


> Already read it, John.



That's a good book, too. I recommend it to anyone who appreciates Norton.

When I first tried a Norton wine about 2 years ago, I was really surprised at its taste. Seemed more meaty than fruity, but very, very nice; really different. I fell in love with the wine and did all the research I could on it, including reading that book - The Wild Vine.

If you like reds and you have never tasted a nice Norton, you really should order a bottle. They are produced in Missouri and Virginia, to name the 2 major producers.


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## GaDawg (Jun 18, 2013)

Norton is produced in several Georgia vineyards


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## jswordy (Jun 19, 2013)

They are also made in Illinois (Mary Michelle Winery), Alabama (Southern Oak Winery), Tennessee, North Carolina...

Illinois Cellars made a Norton that was just $6.99 a bottle and was good. They of course are sold out! Mary Michelle is a subsidiary of IC.

I was delighted to find a vineyard not 15 minutes from me growing Norton. Looks like opportunity knocking in a few weeks here.


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## FABulousWines (Jun 19, 2013)

Horton in Gordonsville, VA also makes a Norton:



> The vision of Horton Vineyards is to grow grapes ideally suited to the climate of the Old Dominion. This vision has led to the planting of French Rhone, Bordeaux and native Virginia grapes. Horton Vineyards is proud to re-introduce the famous Norton wine, the original Virginia Claret. Norton is a native Virginia grape that produced the internationally prize winning clarets of the Monticello Wine Company of Charlottesville in the late 1800's.
> Our Norton has a dark, rich color and an intensely fruity aroma of plums and tart cherries. Ageing in oak for 14 months has given this wine a long, flavorful, spicy finish. A wine for game, grilled sausages, and spicy ethnic foods.



http://hortonwine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=35&Itemid=70

I will be visiting there in a few weeks and may pick up a bottle or two.


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## JohnT (Jun 19, 2013)

robie said:


> That's a good book, too. I recommend it to anyone who appreciates Norton.
> 
> When I first tried a Norton wine about 2 years ago, I was really surprised at its taste. Seemed more meaty than fruity, but very, very nice; really different. I fell in love with the wine and did all the research I could on it, including reading that book - The Wild Vine.
> 
> If you like reds and you have never tasted a nice Norton, you really should order a bottle. They are produced in Missouri and Virginia, to name the 2 major producers.


 
I would add that Norton really does do better with age. If you try it, try to get a bottle that is several years old.


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## bigdrums2 (Jun 23, 2013)

Interesting, as I'm drinking a Chrysalis Vineyards Norton right now. Virginia's Norton's aren't as powerful as the Missouri types, a bit more European. It definitely needs oak in my opinion, and with skill will produce a good glass of wine. By the way, it also makes a great port and rose.


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## SeMo-wine (Jul 1, 2013)

Missouri is also dubbed the first wine country! Being a Missouri winery owner and doing coustum propagation I can tell you that the norton/Cynthiana is one of the hardest to propagate. If from cuttings buy twice the cuttings you think you will need.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Jul 1, 2013)

Not to hijack... welcome SeMo-wine, what winery is yours? I should be pretty close to you. There are a number of us around here.


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## robie (Jul 1, 2013)

SeMo-wine said:


> Missouri is also dubbed the first wine country! Being a Missouri winery owner and doing coustum propagation I can tell you that the norton/Cynthiana is one of the hardest to propagate. If from cuttings buy twice the cuttings you think you will need.



I believe it is Chrysalis Vineyards that spent a bunch of money trying to figure out how to propagate Norton. If I remember, they were fairly successful.


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## bigdrums2 (Jul 1, 2013)

Yes they did. I also talked to the vineyard manager at cooper vineyards and what they do there is shave the cuttings like a pencil near the buds and then soak the cuttings overnight. They then apply a rooting hormone and use heat mats. Others swear that fish emulsion is great when watering them.


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