# Most Popular Wine Kits



## geocorn (Jun 5, 2006)

Just curious to see if you are curious.


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## Angell Wine (Jun 5, 2006)

I don't mind has long as you post the least popular one's too.


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## Brandst (Jun 5, 2006)

Would be interesting to see what others are making. And it may motivate some to try a wine that they would not normally look at if others think it's great.

Steve


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## geocorn (Jun 5, 2006)

I should have re-phrased the question to "Would you like to see a list of the popularity of all wine kit sales?"


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## masta (Jun 6, 2006)

Sure we love numbers!


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## djcoop (Jun 6, 2006)

Yes, I would like to see the overall popularity!


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## PolishWineP (Jun 6, 2006)

Yes! I think it's a great idea!




Can certainly be of help when trying to decide what to next make!


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## smurfe (Jun 7, 2006)

Of course. I am always interested in statistics. I don't think I would rush out and buy something cause everyone else is but it would make me take a hard look at a product and see if it suits my needs. 


What I would really like to see statistic wise are the kits that met expectations and those that didn't meet expectations as compared to a commercial made wine.


Smurfe


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## geocorn (Jun 7, 2006)

As a general rule, most kits have exceeded expectations. I have had only a handfull of customers that were not satisfied with a specific kit. The most common complaint is that some of the Vintners Reserves are somewhat "thin". Most of the time, those customers upgrade to the Selection kits and are more than satisfied with the increased body.


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## otto6183 (Jun 8, 2006)

Yes, I believe that there is usually a good reason for the popularity of any kit. There might be other factors involved, but barring a complete media blitz, popularity can usually be construed to be a good indicator of satisfied customers and, hopefully, quality. In any event, the 'popularity factor' will definitely be an 'attention getter'.


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## MedPretzel (Jun 8, 2006)

Yes, because I think it would be good to choose what kit to buy/not to buynext.


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## grapeman (Jun 8, 2006)

George,


Do you have any way to track repeat sales of the kits you at least sell? This might be a good indicator in itself. If a person buys a kit several times, chances are they at least think it is better than others they have purchased. I know I have a few favorites myself even though I haven't been doing this that long.


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## geocorn (Jun 8, 2006)

That is a good idea. I have the data, but will have to determine how best to provide it. It is a little trickier than just ranking the kits by sales.


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## Bert (Jun 9, 2006)

This sounds like a good idea...It may help in deciding what else to make....Maybe I would find something else I really like...But than I haven't found any I didn't like.


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## maize (Jun 9, 2006)

Good idea about the repeat orders.


But something to keep in mind... To me it often seems like there are too many interesting sounding kits and not enough time to do them all. In less than 2 years, I have started 16 kits - and I don't have any duplicates yet. Now, I like most of the ones that I have tried and I did plan to make a second of a RJ kit - but George had too many leakers. Many of the kits I have make are from the yearly special sets, so you often don't have a chance to order a second one later.


All that being said, I currently have a second Trio kit in my shopping cart. That was a delima, since there were some white kits I thought would be fun - but I finally decided on the Trio because I really liked it and the others would be around later - probably.


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## geocorn (Jun 9, 2006)

Here is the first link. I will do more with it later, but I wanted to get the initial data out. Have fun!


http://www.finevinewines.com/Wine-Kit-Popularity.asp


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## peterCooper (Jun 10, 2006)

It's a funny thing about expectations. The first time I made a WE Selction kit 
it exceeded my expectations. As a result, my expectations were raised. 
The second time I made the same kit it only MET my epectations


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## grapeman (Jun 10, 2006)

Now those are interesting results. What I think I'm seeing is the result of a lot of first time buyers wetting their feet not being sure what kit to buy(opting for the less expensive ones).There are a lot of the cheaper kits near the top and a couple of good ones. A few people start with the best. Maybe you should throw out the first time purchases- kind-of like a poll where they lop off the top and bottom 10%. This might better reflect what people really think is better.


Then there are a few I really like that don't score as well- maybe it's just that nobody else has tried them yet.


Boy, a person could really interpret a lot of different things from this!


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## otto6183 (Jun 10, 2006)

I'm not at all surprised to see the SE Stag's Leap District Merlot and the SE Oregon Yamhill County Pinot Noir on the top of the list. I sure am glad I've got both almost ready to bottle........ and age for at least a year





I totally agree with 'appleman', there are indeed a lot of possible interpretations, although by comparing VR with VR, SO with SO, IM with IM, etc, there seem to be considerably fewer surprises.

Thanks for the info, George


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## smurfe (Jun 10, 2006)

peterCooper said:


> It's a funny thing about expectations. The first time I made a WE Selection kit
> it exceeded my expectations. As a result, my expectations were raised.
> The second time I made the same kit it only MET my expectations




I am with Peter. I used to enjoy my VR Cab kit. After a couple Selection kits came around after 6-8 months in the bottle and still getting better, that raised my expectations and thus now, I hardly drink the VR Cab kit and use it mostly for topping up. Kinda goes along with why eat a hamburger po-boy when I can eat a shrimp po-boy everyday. Save the hamburger for meatballs for the spaghetti!. A hamburger is good but I prefer shrimp. Plus you have to remember, shrimp is easier to get here and in many places, cheaper than hamburger so I guess that throws the theory off there.






While the list is interesting, everyone has to remember that everyone has different tastes and different budgets. Of the top 20 kits in sales, I personally would only make 3 of them again. I have made a few others in the top 20 list and while are fine, they don't suit my taste. The list shows the variety enjoyed by our fine group here. It gives me a vast resource to turn to in the event I want to make a wine I wouldn't drink for someone else or if I just wanted to broaden my knowledge and experiment.


Repeat sales stats would be interesting as well. And hey, even though I ain't gonna make it, I truly am interested in what others make as well and you never know, I could be swayed to acquire new tastes as well which in my opinion is what this is all about. Sharing your experiences andbuilding a friends network with the same passions.






It really gets my goat to read posts where the writer raves about a particular wine and more or less says if you drink anything else, you are more of a Street Wino than a wine connoisseur. Anyone who says they have a "mature palette" is pretentious and quite frankly not a wine lover.



Remember, no matter how "advanced" you palette is, poo still tastes like poo and honey still tastes like honey.



It's that simple. Our palettes are "matured" to suit our tastes, not anyone else's. If I make a wine and enter it in a contest and it scores horribly but I love drinking it. who's the winner there?






Thanks for the data George, it goes to show that you are truly part of the community and not just a retailer. Sharing your passion has created a living for you as well as many new friends. We all have made new friends here and attending Winestock has cemented that fact. I hope to learn more and hope in some way I can continue to contribute to the site for a long time to come.


Now, I have to try to remember why the heck I am sitting here rambling again and have strayed so much off the point. But hey, y'all know me and how I like to talk and yeah, I have killed a bottle of Amarone so I guess the results of statistical data are talking!






Smurfe


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## OilnH2O (Jun 10, 2006)

Hmmm...I always WONDERED what poo tastes like....


(Sorry, couldn't resist!)


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## smurfe (Jun 10, 2006)

OilnH2O said:


> Hmmm...I always WONDERED what poo tastes like....
> 
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist!)







As I stated, I am sure it will pretty well taste the same for those with "Advanced and Mature Palettes" as it would for me!



I guess my main point is i would hate to see someone buy a kit just because everyone else is.






Data is great though to lead one to research if it is indeed something they want. But then again, I guess if you don't buy it and try it, you will never know if you like it.



Hmm, that sounds like a great marketing statement there.






Smurfe


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## geocorn (Jun 10, 2006)

I have added some more info. Please let me know what you think of it.


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## maize (Jun 12, 2006)

Thanks George:


Funny - a lot of my wines have been the RQ/ WE limited release wines. I guess since these are mostly pre-orders, they don't have enough sales. Can you tell me what have been the highest sellers of these over the last couple years??


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## geocorn (Jun 12, 2006)

Since I only carry Winexpert and a few Spagnols kits, I only listed the Winexpert sales.As to the limited editions and restricted quanities, most people order the complete set of one or the other, so listing all of these kits would not provide much info. In addition, there is no guarantee the any of the LE's or RQ's will be available again. As a result, I opted to omit this info.


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## grapeman (Jun 12, 2006)

George,


I like the new format you provided. Now it's easy to compare the kits by wine style, brand or varietal. Good info.


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## maize (Jun 12, 2006)

I think this is fun information -but not something I would really use to chose a wine - unless I had missed seeing one in the catalogue. 


So George - does that mean if there is even 1 sold, it makes the list? It would be interesting to see the magnitude of difference in orders between these - especially the top ones (are they close). But I would think that would be too proprietary of information to make public.


Kind of funny to see a white Zin as the numberthree RED!


Thanks again for putting this together George.*Edited by: maize *


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## geocorn (Jun 12, 2006)

The list is more just FYI. The thing that jumps out at me has always been how well the Island Mist kits sell. As you will note, they are very popular. The other interesting tidbit is how the flavors rank between the brands.


This information is only 2006 and it is a list of ALL WE kits that I sold this year. I tried to come up with a way to show the magnitude, but gave up. It would provide too much detail that I don't feel is appropriate to the public.


Since the White Zinfandel comes from the Zinfandel grape, which is red, it is considered a red wine by WE. Technically, that is correct, no matter how strange it seems.


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## peterCooper (Jun 12, 2006)

Anytime someone uses the phrase 'technically correct' you know it means 
that what they're saying doesn't jive with reality. (I can't remember the last 
time I used the word jive, not since my my last BeeGees impersonation which 
was how long ago?)


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## geocorn (Jun 12, 2006)

Peter,


You are technically correct



.


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## MedPretzel (Jun 13, 2006)

http://www.quitobee.paetzel.info/serve.shtml





could give you a general idea of what people like, dislike, etc, etc.





only 6 lines of questions, but took the list from Geo's website.


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## MedPretzel (Jun 13, 2006)

Oh yes, if you, George, or anyone else has a question they'd like to include in it, just let me know.


It's basically a very simple script (cgi)... Column 1 - question, columns 2-100000 answers.











M.*Edited by: MedPretzel *


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## geocorn (Jun 13, 2006)

I took your survey and I am impressed. Can't wait to see the results. By the way, you have WE Selection Special twice and don't have WE Selection Estate for the brands.


Thank you for taking the time to do this. I need to find a way to incorporate those questions in a purchase followup.


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## MedPretzel (Jun 13, 2006)

Well, I revamped it a little -- put them in alphabetical order, and put some more info in. I also took the "doubles" out -- Chardonnay, Pino Noir, Merlot, etc.


No thanks necessary. It's a welcome challenge.


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## MedPretzel (Jun 13, 2006)

Up to 11 questions.


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## mountainjaybird (Jun 14, 2006)

Hi all,


I'm a newbie and this is my first post. Bear with me if I goof it up. In line with George's poll results, I have been using the Winexpert annual product guide to choose my wine kits. It provides results of their WineMaker International Amateur Wine Competition for 2002, 2003 and 2005 (no competition in 2004) along with the different types of kits Winexpert offers and specific details of the type of wine such as body, oak, sweekness etc. When I began making wine last year, I chose basic Vintner's Reserve kits mainly because of price and was satisfied with the results. However, after a trip to Australia's wine country last year and sampling many wines, I now prefer to choose the ones that better represent each country's grapes/wine.I like knowing where the grapes were grown andgetting to know the nuances of each varietal. I now use Selection International kits more andam using the product guide to tell me how they ranked in competition.



Gold and Silver awards allow me to choose new wines with some guarantee that it will be outstanding and a good representation of that particular type of wine/grape/region. My thinking is that I don't waste time and money on making a wine kit for agood wine when I could make a great wine for a little more.



I still make some of the VR and VR Passport wines, but chose fewer of them based on the competition results. How do George's poll results stack up against the Winexpert WineMaker Competition results?



Those stats would be based on taste vs. sales which is still another interpretation of what tickles people's tastebuds.






As others have stated already, personal taste is different for everyone asare budgets and time. In reality, most of us choose our wines based on a variety of reasons and factors. Frankly, My neighbors and I have enjoyed drinking everything I've made so far; some good and some great.


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## pkcook (Jun 14, 2006)

mountainjaybird,


Welcome! Although my tastebuds are not as refined as most, I know the type of wine I like and you make a very good point. By selecting a kit that isan award winnerin the varietal you enjoy, you can increase the potential that you will be able to produce a quality wine that will meet your needs. 


I'm making my first kit now (Vieux Chateau Du Roi). If I find this wine to my liking, I'll save back a few bottles and make a Selection series of the same type and compare.


Again, welcome to the forum.


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## smurfe (Jun 14, 2006)

Mountainjaybird, welcome as well. I have to chime in though about the award winning wines. Don't rule out others as well. From what I have seen in research of competitions, many wines that didn't win medals or were like silver or bronze winners were probably scored as they were due to the fact the wine wasn't aged enough. 


I have read the results of a few big shows and was surprised to see so many enter wines that were basically just made. If they were to wait another year to enter the wine, they probably would of scored gold. I have a Mead from last year I am entering in the Indy show but I am waiting till next year for any grape wines to be entered. My oldest worthy wine is coming on a year old and by next year, it should be very competitive.


You might be surprised to see quite a few Vintners Reserve kits have won medals in these competitions as well. It isn't the quality of the kits as much as it is the care in making the kit that scores well for you. Wine isn't really scored against other wines. It is scored against itself. You get points for Appearance, Aroma and Bouquet, Taste, Aftertaste, and Overall Impression. 


As you can see, if you concentrate on each of these areas such as filtering for appearance, keeping the wine topped up to prevent oxidation, using good quality water to mix the kit and aging to allow the wine to reach it's potential you can see where it is a lot more than just the kit, there is indeed quality controls the winemaker can utilize to assure a good wine. 


You often read these kits are idiot proof or that you aren't really making wine but those of us that make them know it just isn't true. Yes, there is less work but thinking is very much involved and a bad choice can spoil a wine. 


With all that said, keep plugging with the Selection kits. I think overall they are the top choice to compete with commercial wines. I just didn't know if you knew who medals were won and would hate to see someone buy a product just because it won a medal. The winemaker had as much to do as the kit did. That is evident when you see numerous like kits entered and some don't win. 


Welcome to the forums here and we all look forward to hearing more from you. It appears you have some experience under your belt and I am sure you will be an asset to the group.


Smurfe


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## mountainjaybird (Jun 16, 2006)

Thanks for the response guys.



I'm not discounting the wine kits that didn't win, but adding another "flavor" to George's poll that's easily found for people to use when trying to choose a new wine to make.While I think sales volume stats are good, people buy wines for variousreasons; some for budget, some forindividual tastes, and some from experience or curiosity. My thinking when I posted was that award winners' statswould be based on flavor/balance, clarity, quality, body etc. from an outside third party (no bias).Like most, I won't buy a kit because it was on the short list for "most popular". I'll choose the kit that stands the best odds to make the best wine for my taste and budget. 


Smurfe makes a great point - the winemaker has as much input into the quality of the wine as thewine kit had to begin with. There are just as many ways to ruin the wine or make a so/so wineas there are to make it a great wine; ie. it may not be the quality of the kit, but the experience of the winemaker that determines the overall quality of the wine. I didn't think about the fact that some of the kit winesrepresented in competition might not have been competition quality whichwould have thrown the stats off for a particular category kind of like a mutt in a dog show. I assumed the only highest quality wines would compete for the awards (pedigreed)....wrong.






Also, like Smurfe, I prefer the Selection series especially the International ones. I've made over a dozen kits in the past year and all were good. The Selection Int'l, Original and Speciale were much higher in quality than the VR and VR Passport series which make good table wines but lack the body or flavor/balance of the others.


I haven't read through all the posts and am curious. Is there a poll on the most popular country wines (scratch wines)forum members enjoy making? I'm taking a break from kit wines to concentrate on summer wines using fresh fruits from the local farmer's market. I have strawberry in the carboy to be racked soon, Colorado peach in the fermenter for a few more days, and neighborhood dandelion in the carboy waiting on a second racking. I'd like to know what the most popular country wine flavors are and why folks like them best. Is there a post I should look at first?


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## grapeman (Jun 16, 2006)

Greetings Mountainjaybird. Welcome to the forum. I don't know of a specific poll for country wines, but you might want to post on the fruit forum. Martina and others do a lot of country fruit wines and I bet they would be willing to share a lot of ideas with you. A lot of the summer fruit wines make very good wine, but generally the aging time is fairly long. I personally like a couple batches of Black Raspberry wine I made last year-just beginning to get a little mellow-lots of flavor. I mixed one with strawberry to give the strawberry a little extra character. That one is pretty good.


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## mountainjaybird (Jun 21, 2006)

Appleman,


That sounds great...black raspberry and strawberry. I sampled my fresh strawberry (5 gal batch) and I'm not too sure I'm going to like it. It has cleared nicely but the flavor just isn't there yet.


I thought all the polls would be on this forum. I'll try the fruit forum to see what's going on there. Maybe I can find an answer.


Thanks.


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