# Want to make a quick, small batch of hootch. :p



## yaeyama (Aug 26, 2007)

Hi, I have my first batch of wine (peach, 6 gallons) in secondary now. I have been trying to follow recipe and sanitation instructions to the letter, with the ultimate goal of producing a very fine wine to be bottled and consumed about 8 months to a year from now. (BTW: what is the expected shelf-life of a fruit wine after it has been bottled? I will be storing the bottles in an inner closet which can range from about 10C in winter to about 28C in summer.)

HOWEVER...as you yourselves are aware, the process of making wine is fun, fascinating, and the prospect of drinking a wine you have created by hand is exciting. Therefore, while I am "waaaiiittiiiiing" for my perfect peach, I would like to brew a small batch of "hootch" that I can ferment quickly and drink within about a month.

I have a plastic beverage container, which is tall and fairly narrow. It can hold exactly 2 litres but that is at the absolute brim. Therefore, I was thinking I could use the same container as both primary and secondary, and prepare say, 1.7 or 1.8 litres of a stronger-than-needed must, and topping up with spring water when moving to secondary. For secondary, I was thinking of covering the top with several layers of plastic wrap, into which a hole has been cut to allow me to insert an airlock. I would then use several layers of scotch tape to provide some stability to the airlock.

For the recipe, I was thinking a litre and a half of 100% grape juice (Welch's, NOT concentrate but just juice...can't get frozen concentrate here), followed by a generous portion of sugar. Maybe half a packet of cote de blancs yeast?

Any advice, including for the recipe? Would I end up with something half-decent to drink as a table wine? Cloudy with suspended particulate is NOT a problem. ;-)


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## Sacalait (Aug 26, 2007)

Check the product information on the grape juice, if it contains sulfites or sorbate you may have trouble getting it started.


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## yaeyama (Aug 26, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> Check the product information on the grape juice, if it contains sulfites or sorbate you may have trouble getting it started.



Japanese products don't contain that much information. :|
Anyway, shouldn't I be able to bring the juice to a quick boil and gas out the sulphites? And, I assume I would have better luck if I used a yeast starter.

BTW, would I run into any problems if I used "100% grape juice -- from concentrate"? It's the cheapest and most readily available. :/


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## Luc (Aug 26, 2007)

Take apple juice.

Add per liter 200 grams sugar and some wine yeast
and you have a perfect wine which is early drinkable.

I just made a 5 liter batch myself.

Great summer drink with about 11% alcohol.

But indeed make sure no preservatives are in the must
otherwise it will not ferment.

Luc Volders


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## smurfe (Aug 28, 2007)

Also, don't worry about the half packet of yeast. Just use it all. Won't make a difference.

Scratch that, I didn't see you were only trying to make a liter of wine.


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## yaeyama (Aug 29, 2007)

Two litres, actually. Well, almost. 
By the way, if I used a product with preservatives, it won't ferment? Or will just be harder to START fermentation with?


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## Luc (Aug 29, 2007)

Depends on what kind of preservatives are in the juice and in what quantity.

Most yeast are sulphite resistent so that would not harm the yeast, again depending on quantity.
Sorbate will prevent yeast multiplication so a big yeast starter would help, but then you are just making 2 liters !!!! No room for a yeast starter.

Why just 2 liters. It will be gone in one evening serious drinking  

I even find that 5 liter batches are to small. Great for experimenting but then on to 
at least 10 liter.
If a wine is good or great or just fun to drink you will be sorry you made
such a small amount.

Luc


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## yaeyama (Sep 8, 2007)

Luc said:


> Why just 2 liters. It will be gone in one evening serious drinking
> 
> Luc



Okay, I found a 5 litre demijohn in the local DIY store, so I grabbed it. (About $35 US!!) There was also a 10 litre, but my wife put her foot down (actually, I was shopping by myself, but I had visions of her foot coming down later).

I've decided that I would really like to make a berry wine. I am sure I can find some decent blackberry or blueberry wine recipes out there for a 5 litre batch. However, fresh fruit is really expensive here, so I would like to buy frozen berries (which for some reason are cheaper...maybe they freeze berries which they couldn't sell retail before they got too ripe?  ). The question is, frozen berries would be heavier than fresh, right? So if a recipe specifies x kg. of fresh berries, how many kg. of frozen berries should I get?

Also, would a blackberry/raspberry/blueberry mix result in a nice wine? Or is simple better? 

Any advice would be appreciated. Can't wait to start brewing.


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## Sacalait (Sep 8, 2007)

Why will frozen fruit weigh more than fresh? Do the folks on your side of the pond add water to fruit before freezing?

Blackberry/blueberry/muscadine make a fantastic wine when fermented together but I doubt you'll find muscadines where you live. Check out Jack Kellers site for berry recipes. If his recipe calls for 10# of blackberries you could substitute 5# blueberries with 5# blackberries and would go with 5 & 5.


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## yaeyama (Sep 8, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> Why will frozen fruit weigh more than fresh? Do the folks on your side of the pond add water to fruit before freezing?



Actually I contemplated that while I was typing my post. Now that I've read your reply, I believe I may not have contemplated that enough before posting.  



Muscadine said:


> Check out Jack Kellers site for berry recipes. If his recipe calls for 10# of blackberries you could substitute 5# blueberries with 5# blackberries and would go with 5 & 5.



Jack Keller's recipes don't seem to specify how much the recipe will make. From the ingredients, I would assume I'd end up with a gallon and a bit left over for topping up?


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## CBBaron (Sep 8, 2007)

yaeyama said:


> Jack Keller's recipes don't seem to specify how much the recipe will make. From the ingredients, I would assume I'd end up with a gallon and a bit left over for topping up?


I believe all of his recipes make 1 US gallon unless otherwise specified.
Craig


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## Sacalait (Sep 8, 2007)

Craig is correct so just do the math for the amount of fruit you've got on hand but only use one pkt. of yeast for any quanity up to 6 gallons.


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## yaeyama (Sep 11, 2007)

Okay, I have equipment and found a source for -reasonably price- frozen mixed fruit (well, for Japan, anyway). http://store.yahoo.co.jp/nisshoku/7654567876678.html

Trouble is, Jack Keller's recipes call for quarts.  I have no idea how to convert a non-powder, non-liquid entity into metric grams. I'm interested in doing an adaption of this mixed berry recipe:

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request.asp

I figure I would grab a few bunches of muskat grapes from the market, and for the rest of the berries just buy several 500 gram bags of the mixed berries from the yahoo shopping site above.

Anybody have an idea of how many bags I should buy? I don't want to overdo it, because they are expensive, and I would likely have too much body. And, I don't want to underdo it, because then I would have something too diluted.

Maybe just guesstimate 4 bags and top up with sugar until my SG is about 1.100?


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## yaeyama (Sep 11, 2007)

I got impatient and ordered 3.5 kg of frozen berries. 
I figure about 4 cups to the quart? So I'll take it from there. :>
However I am a little scared about acid blend, etc. And I do not have any citric acid. (I have tannin powder, however). The fruits I ordered were:

- blackberries, 1 kg.
- blueberries, 1 kg.
- strawberries, 1 kg.
- raspberries, 0.5 kg.

Any obvious adjustments for Jack's mixed berry recipe needed for this?

Thanks!


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## Luc (Sep 11, 2007)

I would not worry about the acid.
I think the berries itself contain enough acid.
A titration kit might help here.

I certainly would go easy on the tannin with this mix.
Maybe leave it out alltogether..

Try tasting as an initial test it might give you the answers
you need.

Luc


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## yaeyama (Sep 13, 2007)

Luc said:


> I would not worry about the acid.
> I think the berries itself contain enough acid.
> A titration kit might help here.
> 
> ...



Titration kit will have to wait until next year, I think. I already spent far too much on this hobby so far, and I've only got 6 gallons of peach and soon 1 gallon of mixed berries being fermented. ;-)

I'll try the taste test and adjust from there, but as a newbie (and not really able to tell the difference between the finest bottle of Chablis and a bottle of Lonesome Charlie) I wonder how successful I will be. ;-)

Oh well, the berries are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, just in time for the weekend!!!


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## yaeyama (Sep 14, 2007)

The frozen berries arrived! 2 lb. blackberries, 2 lb. blueberries, 2 lb. strawberries, and 1 lb. of raspberries. I also got a a few bunches of several varieties of grapes (white grapes, red grapes, and very small berry-like grapes I have never seen outside of Japan). I also got my 100% apple juice.

Some addititional questions, if I may. 
I couldn't find seedless grapes. :| Do I have to cut them up and extract the seeds? ross: Or just wash them and toss 'em and crush them in the primary?

Also, the apple juice has "sankaboushizai" in it. In brackets besides this word, is (Vitamin C). The dictionary only says that sankaboushizai means, "antioxidant". But if this is vitamin C, then I assume it is ascorbic acid. Is this likely going to affect fermentation?

BTW what kind of yeast should I use? I have Lalvin EC-1118 (which I don't think I want to use...I already have a peach going using that one, and I think it's going to like rocket fuel!), Red Star Cote des Blancs, Red Star Montrachet, and some no-name "Sachet A-Wine Yeast" from a kit I bought (only because I needed the grape concentrate).

By the way, this is going to make a red, right? So I don't have to worry about the air gap? And should I get some oak chips??

Heh, all I wanted to make was a quick bottle of "hootch" (yeah, I know the spelling was wrong), but it is looking like I'm going to be preparing, and aging, a smaller but hopefully excellent wine. 

BTW I start it tomorrow as soon as the yeast nutrient arrives!


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## Sacalait (Sep 14, 2007)

First of all you don't have to remove the seeds just wash and mash the grapes making sure all the skins are broken to release the sugars and allow the yeast to get at it.

Ascorbic acid shouldn't affect the ferment but read the product label to see if sorbate was added. If so, this could skewer your attempt. If it were me I'd get it fermenting vigorously before adding the apple juice just to be on the safe side. Just my opinion.

Any of the yeasts listed will do a good job so just pick one out and go for it.

Being red or white has nothing to do with the amount of head space. You want to keep it at a minimum regardless of color and yes it will be a red wine.

Good luck, keep us posted.


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## yaeyama (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks for the advice. Well, here we go! (I really enjoy all the steps involved in winemaking...but the 5 or 6 hours from sanitization, mixing, and finally placing the cover on the primary IS a bit of a pain in the ass.  )


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## yaeyama (Sep 15, 2007)

Done! However, with the quantity being smaller than usual, and the thickness much greater than I expected (berry soup!), I was =NOT= successful taking a SG.  I finally swore and gave up in disgust, hoping I have the initial sugar content correct.

The recipe I arbitrarily came up with is (a customized version of berry wines from Jack Keller's site and from the "Winemaking" book by Stanley Anderson is:

- 1.5 litres of HOT water
- sugar - 500 grams
- black currants - 1 kg.
- blackberries - 1 kg.
- strawberries - 1 kg.
- raspberries - 0.5 kg.
- blueberries - 2 pints
- table grapes - 4 bunches; mixed white, red
- citric acid - 1.5 tsp
- 3 campden tablets, crushed
- yeast nutrient - 1.5 tsp
- tannin - 0.5 tsp
- pectic enzyme - 2.0 tsp
- apple juice - 2 litres
- cote des blancs - 1 pkt (low alcohol - 13% but nice bouquet)

I'll guess I'll know tomorrow morning whether or not the yeast likes this combination.


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## yaeyama (Sep 15, 2007)

HELP! 12 hours later and there is no sign of fermentation. 
I even made a yeast starter (1/2 cup of sugar water) and proofed it for about 4 hours before pitching. The small starter was foaming nicely when I pitched it. But, this morning, absolutely nothing.

There are three possible problems that I can think of:
- I couldn't get a SG, so I have no idea if the "environment" is suitable for the yeast. However, I did a taste test and it wasn't sickly sweet, so I don't think the sugar content is too high.
- I might have pitched the yeast while the must was too cold. I didn't defrost the frozen berries awhile beforehand, and therefore I had to wait several hours before pitching. However, I did wait awhile, and I can't imagine the must would have been less than about 10 C (50 F). (I should have taken a temperature reading. ) Is is possible I killed the yeast?? I thought I would have simply delayed them a little bit.
- The apple juice I added may, or may not, have been sulphited (sometimes Japanese seem to omit things from their packaging labels). However, this only accounts to about 50% of the volume; the rest is sugar water and crushed berries. I would have thought this would simply slightly delay the yeast from getting started.

Any advice would be really appreciated. 
Thanks!


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## cpfan (Sep 16, 2007)

I haven't been follow your discussion here, but I think that all you need is PATIENCE. The cold should not have killed the yeast, just made it go dormant. Also visual signs of fermentation are grossly over-rated. Give it more time.

Steve


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## yaeyama (Sep 16, 2007)

cpfan said:


> I haven't been follow your discussion here, but I think that all you need is PATIENCE.



I gave it an aerating stir this evening, and it showed evidence of fermentation! Not going crazy like my peach-based EC-1118 did, but fermentation nonetheless. Unfortunately, I tried another attempt at taking an SG, this time with a mesh to allow me to properly fill the testing container, but failed. The mesh was too fine to let anything pass through. I wish I had put my ingredients into a mesh bag. 

Oh well, at least it's on the way. And it smells heavenly!!


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## yaeyama (Sep 17, 2007)

Oh my GOD this berry must smells good!
I thought the peach was good. I don't know if I'll be able to let this age properly, if it ends up tasting anywhere as good as it smells now.


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