# Melomel yeast



## spunk (Dec 22, 2014)

Which is better Montrachet or champagne trying bannana - elderberry -blackhaw fruit(only pint of the two fruit)


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## GreginND (Dec 22, 2014)

I would go for the Champagne yeast if it is the EC-1118. It is a strong fermenter with good alcohol tolerance. Montrachet is a good yeast too, but you need to watch out for formation of H2S when using it. Honey wines tend to be low on nutrients which could lead to greater chance of a stinky ferment.


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## spunk (Dec 22, 2014)

Pasteur. Red star is it different and how if it is.


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## Tenbears (Dec 31, 2014)

Every yeast is different, although there may be some similarities they are refined from different cultures, Each for it's specific nuances, some desirable traits are often offset by non preferred traits, and possibly even undesirable. It is imperative when selecting yeast that one understands all aspects. This is why general purpose, or durable yeasts such as EC-1118 are recommended when an absence of all information is available. Some yeast can bring fruit forward but may be sensitive to alcohol or temperatures, wile others withstand a wide variety of conditions but do not play well to the fruit. 
For these reasons I like to know the type of wine, Starting SG, Desired alcohol, Average winery temperature and ability to adjust the above. Then One can determine a yeast that will produce the optimal qualities desired, and function well under the conditions. 

With that said, for most general purpose wine making, you can hardly go wrong with Lalvin EC-1118


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## BernardSmith (Dec 31, 2014)

Tenbears said:


> Every yeast is different, although there may be some similarities they are refined from different cultures, Each for it's specific nuances, some desirable traits are often offset by non preferred traits, and possibly even undesirable. It is imperative when selecting yeast that one understands all aspects. This is why general purpose, or durable yeasts such as EC-1118 are recommended when an absence of all information is available.
> 
> ...
> 
> With that said, for most general purpose wine making, you can hardly go wrong with Lalvin EC-1118



I don't fundamentally disagree, (more about that in a moment) but if I had my druthers I would argue that the best thing to do is bench test. That means to make one batch of must and divide that batch into three or four carboys and pitch a different yeast into each carboy and see which yeast produces the outcomes you prefer. 

When I first started wine making I tended to use champagne type yeasts like EC-1118 and as you say, those are work horses and you really cannot go wrong... except that if you are really looking for something more nuanced you lose that with that kind of yeast. 71B , for example, is said to have an affinity to malic acid and I tend to use that when I make cider. I think it's also great with honey. In my (albeit limited) experience I have never found that that yeast produces hydrogen sulfide under normal conditions or that it autolyses to produce off flavors and aromas. But it ain't a killer yeast.. (it plays well with other yeasts in a way that EC-1118 will not)
I also made a batch of banana wine with 71B and I was surprised at how nicely complex the flavors turned out


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## Tenbears (Dec 31, 2014)

BernardSmith said:


> I don't fundamentally disagree, (more about that in a moment) but if I had my druthers I would argue that the best thing to do is bench test. That means to make one batch of must and divide that batch into three or four carboys and pitch a different yeast into each carboy and see which yeast produces the outcomes you prefer.
> 
> When I first started wine making I tended to use champagne type yeasts like EC-1118 and as you say, those are work horses and you really cannot go wrong... except that if you are really looking for something more nuanced you lose that with that kind of yeast. 71B , for example, is said to have an affinity to malic acid and I tend to use that when I make cider. I think it's also great with honey. In my (albeit limited) experience I have never found that that yeast produces hydrogen sulfide under normal conditions or that it autolyses to produce off flavors and aromas. But it ain't a killer yeast.. (it plays well with other yeasts in a way that EC-1118 will not)
> I also made a batch of banana wine with 71B and I was surprised at how nicely complex the flavors turned out




I think we are saying the same thing, However, Not everyone has the ability, time or desire to bench test their yeasts, I have done so for a great many years hence my reference to requiring complete information to make a selection. 

71B is a lovely yeast for a number of ferments. But let us suppose in the information profile I were to say my starting gravety is 1.118 and I am looking for a dry wine with ABV of 18% or so. Would we still make that recommendation? What I was trying to say was that most times a specific recommendation as to the best yeast cannot be made without complete information, So, Many times people simply recommend the reliable old work horses


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## spunk (Dec 31, 2014)

I want to make a melomel with a 12-13 percent alcohol. I have 3 lbs bananas 1 and half pints of elderberries a handful of blackhaw fruit. All fruit is in freezer as of now. I would like to have the fruit flavor to come through. From what I read I think the champagne yeast might not be good for the fruit or would it be ok.


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## BernardSmith (Jan 1, 2015)

Spunk, What Tenbears wrote is IMO, right. You cannot go wrong with a champagne yeast. Champagne yeasts do yeoman service. They are absolutely reliable. They are the journeymen of the yeast world. Honey, berries, fruit with pits, thick skinned fruit, fruit with lots of juice and fruits with hardly any juice - nothing is too much for that yeast. You will have a very lovely wine at the end of the day.


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## seth8530 (Jan 1, 2015)

I would use a gentler yeast like d47 combined with a cool fermentation aND a good nutrient schedule to express those fruity and floral aromatics from the honey. Mead is all about fermentation management. That and good qualities honey.


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## Tenbears (Jan 1, 2015)

Yes, D47 would be a good choice for that wine, as would Cote de blanc. You will want a SG between 1.083 and 1.088

Here is a recipe I use for such a melomel Your ingredients would make a 3 gallon batch that would be medium to medium light bodied, 


3.0 lb. (0.45 kg) fully ripe bananas 
12-oz. (355-mL) can white grape concentrate 
(Welch’s, Old Orchard, etc.)
enough honey to bring SG to desired level. 
6 Campden tablets
1/2 tsp. potassium sorbate
1 tsp. yeast nutrient 
2 tsp. citric acid 
1 Sacket yeast

Bring 6 quarts of water to 120F. Meanwhile, place berries (in nylon straining bag) in the primary fermentation vessel and Honey and grape concentrate in primary. Pour water over contents of primary and stir until honey is dissolved. Cover primary. 

Put another 4 quarts plus one pint of water on to boil. Cut bananas, skins and all, into 1/2 inch slices and add to boiling water. Cover pot and boil for 25 minutes. Skim any scum off water and strain to remove fruit. Add banana liquid to primary and re-cover primary. When cooled to room temperature, stir in citric acid and yeast nutrients and activated yeast, re-cover primary, and set aside. Stir twice daily for 2 days – 3 if additional color requires it. Remove straining bag, squeeze lightly, transfer to secondary, add 3 finely crushed and dissolved Campden tablet, top up if required, and fit airlock. after 45 days rack and add 3 remaining campden tablets as before. rack every 60 days until no sediment fall in a 30 day period, Stabilize, back sweeten and bottle


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## seth8530 (Jan 1, 2015)

I would make one suggestion about adding aCid to mead, abs that would be to wait until after fermentation is done some honey is actually pretty acidic on its own aND aging more could lead to the pH bottoming out and lead to fermentation problems. I would wait until afterwords abs then add to taste.


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## spunk (Jan 1, 2015)

I plan to make a gal so is 3 lbs bannans 1 an half pints of elderberries to much fruit for a gal? I was thinking it would be about right.


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## Tenbears (Jan 2, 2015)

For just a gallon the berries will be OKAY, they make a nice rich body. I would cut the bananas to 1 pound and other ingredients by 1/3 .. except the grape juice concentrate.. Enjoy


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## spunk (Jan 6, 2015)

I have been reading and researching on different meads tenbears mead sounds very good. My first and only mead I made now i now see a lot could have gone wrong but it didnt. I read up on that too. I tend to lean towards natural if possible like nutirents Raisns, molasses, lemon orange,strong brewed blk tea. At least my first was I used no yeast nutrient.I even used montrachet yeast which need a lot of nutrients it was full of spices too that probably help wih the nutrient s. I only used one campton tab near the end before bottling that was the only additive I used. I was inpired by I think it was called the meadery maybe, stated both ways make good mead. He was more on the side of all natural. My mead turned out good hope it will be great in a year or two.hopefull it will keep. Anyhow I'm not sure which direction to go with my next mead yet. I was thinking using the bannans 2 lb strong tea a cup .5 lb molasses berries cinnomon stick or vanilla bean.with grape juice?Decision making is tuffhat:hat: to do.


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## mmadmikes1 (Jan 7, 2015)

I tend to avoid mollasses because I dont like the flavor they add to meads. As far as yeast nuits are concerned the one I use is just dead yeast (pretty natural0 and it works great. I have never used any K-Meta(campton)in a mead. I dont believe it has any need for it


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## spunk (Jan 8, 2015)

Interesting new reading dead yeast hulls or yeast nutrient. I think I like to use some campton Hate to lose all my work. I'm not saying I don't use yeast nutrient I have used it in all my wines. Had a stuck formenting took a lot to get it going again. Wasn't fun. I know my mistake too much sugar at start. I then racked too soon before ferment was done .It was oak leaf wine. A major learning experience. Was going to try a mead recipie decided not after wine I made.


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