# Wine Problem



## sergean2 (May 10, 2011)

Have a friend that gave me enough Vignole and Trammentte grapes to make 5 gallons of a blend. I pressed them and threw in some 58W3 yeast from another friend who works at a local winery. Things went along quite well and at one point it had a lemony taste. I bottled it and now it has a taste that reminds me of the old home permanents that my mom used to use. What happened?

Mike Sergeant


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## winemaker_3352 (May 10, 2011)

Ethyl acetate.

The commonest ester in wines, ethyl acetate forms from the reaction of ethanol and acetic acid. It imparts the unmistakable and usually objectionable aroma of nail-polish remover (acetone). 

*Cause*. Ethyl acetate frequently develops in grapes on the vine from contamination with Acetobacter spp. and other aerobic bacteria converting alcohol produced by yeasts in wounds to acetic acid. It is a frequent contaminant of thin-skinned varieties of shipping grapes and of skins of grapes pressed for juice and allowed exposure to air before being used for second runs. Acetic bacteria are ubiquitous but their activity is greatly reduced by low pH, low temperature and anaerobic conditions. Sulphite is lethal to them.

*Prevention*. Grapes - particularly thin-skinned varieties - should be processed as soon as possible after harvest, and for second runs, crushed skins should be sprayed with sulphite solution if they can't be submerged quickly.

Did you use proper amounts of sulphites? What was your PH level?


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## sergean2 (May 10, 2011)

It's not an acetone smell as far a nail polish remover. It truly smells like home permanent.

The grapes were organically grown and I was attempting to keep with the organic feel. Therefore I was prevented from using sulfites so none were used. The pH was 3.2-3.3 range if I remember correctly. My notes are at home and I am not.


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## closetwine (May 10, 2011)

Home perm smell... That would be ammonia smell... I'm clueless here though. Sorry.


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## winemaker_3352 (May 10, 2011)

The ammonia smell is also an indication of an infection i believe. Not sure what kind and if it can be corrected. Let's wait and see if some other folks have some input.


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## sergean2 (May 10, 2011)

I am beginning to believe that it is an infection also. Will wait to see what others have to say here.

I hope it can be saved


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## winemaker_3352 (May 10, 2011)

What type of closure did you use for your bottles? And how long have they been bottled for?


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## winemaker_3352 (May 10, 2011)

I did a google search and found this:

If the seal is too airtight, and the chemistry of the wine is just right, the wine can go bad through a chemical change called “reduction”, which means a loss of oxygen. Reduction can make the wine smell like rotten eggs or ammonia.


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## sergean2 (May 10, 2011)

synthetic cork and only been in the bottle a few months


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## winemaker_3352 (May 10, 2011)

hmm - interesting. I will do some more research in the meantime - hold tight - lets some other minds weigh in.


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## jet (May 10, 2011)

I've checked all my books and come up with this list of off odors:

vinegar
yeasty
rubber/burnt toast 
rotten eggs
acetone 
geranium 
mold/musty
barnyard
But no ammonia smell.


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## winemaker_3352 (May 10, 2011)

jet said:


> I've checked all my books and come up with this list of off odors:
> 
> vinegar
> yeasty
> ...



I found a few sites talk about it - but it seems to be very rare - not a common one for sure.


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## fifthhorsm (May 11, 2011)

without the use of sulfites your open to any and all infections. my guess is that the synthetic cork has things sealed up slowing everything down and your getting a bit of a reduction reaction along with the alcohol being converted to vinager... give it time, sealed the way it is slows things down so much... in another six months to a year try it again.... and remember the normal proportion of olive oil to vinegar is two to one if all works out good for that you might consider pulling a few corks and putting in a sprig of fresh tarragon some other nice herb and recorking.

i've been making wine for over 35 years and i never suggest beginners try making wine without sulfites all too much to go wrong. i'd give a beginners odds for making a good long lived wine about this: flip a coin... heads you get vinegar, tails you get vinegar... if it lands on its edge you get good wine!!!
mike


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## jet (May 11, 2011)

fifthhorsm said:


> without the use of sulfites your open to any and all infections. my guess is that the synthetic cork has things sealed up slowing everything down and your getting a bit of a reduction reaction along with the alcohol being converted to vinager... give it time, sealed the way it is slows things down so much... in another six months to a year try it again.... and remember the normal proportion of olive oil to vinegar is two to one if all works out good for that you might consider pulling a few corks and putting in a sprig of fresh tarragon some other nice herb and recorking.
> 
> i've been making wine for over 35 years and i never suggest beginners try making wine without sulfites all too much to go wrong. i'd give a beginners odds for making a good long lived wine about this: flip a coin... heads you get vinegar, tails you get vinegar... if it lands on its edge you get good wine!!!
> mike



I agree. IMO the home winemaker would be better to label his wine "Made with Organic Grapes" and leave the full organic wine to the pro's.


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