# Waldo's Black Widow Blackberry



## Waldo (Jul 21, 2007)

An early trip to the Little Rock River Marketthis morningresulted in the coup of enough blackberries to get my batch of "Black Widow Blackberry"started today. 
My recipe for this 5 gallonbatch is as follows:
34 lbs. Blackberries ( Steamed, which netted me 2-1/4 Gallon Juice)
12 lbs. Sugar ( Dissolved in boiling water &amp; currently cooling)
1Tbsp. Acid Blend ( May add more before I pitch yeast)
1Tsp Tannin
5 Campden Tablets, Crushed, Dissolved in Magic Bullet Blender
2TBSP Yeast Nutrient
1TBSP Yeast Energizer
5/8 TSP Pectic Enzyme ( Liquid)
Yeast - Yet to be determined which one I will use.
My target SG on this batch is going to be 1.090 - 1.096


Here is the label I will be using on this one. Will be posting more pictures later this evening or in the morning. Right now I am waiting on my sugar water to cool down so I add to must. I have already added my Campden tabs, Acid Blend &amp; Tannin. 
Stay tuned ..More pictures and hopefully even a short video of the steamer in action.


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## LeiniePrincess (Jul 21, 2007)

Sounds delicious!!! I love everything black berry! You'll have to use it to wash down some blackberry pie or cobbler. I can't even image all of the tingling that all those blackberries could make!


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## grapeman (Jul 21, 2007)

A work of art in progress. I should be great when done. Did you ever turn the black widows loose or do you keep them in the wine cellar as guards?


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 21, 2007)

appleman said:


> A work of art in progress. I should be great when done. Did you ever turn the black widows loose or do you keep them in the wine cellar as guards?




That's the secret ingredient in this wine...


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 21, 2007)

Nice label...I like the black/white you've been using...the touch of Burgundy color in the border is very classy.


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## Waldo (Jul 21, 2007)

Lennie, I'll have to bring you a jar of my famous Blackberry Jelly to Winestock. Talk about making you slobber now...spread that on some fresh, hothomemade biscuits with butter.
Thanks NW and appleman...I am looking for some ceramicblack widow spiders to maybe glue to the bottles. Thought that might look kinda neat. Anyway, lets get this post updated with some photos. 
The Blackberries I got this morning at the Market




Blackberries being steamed straight into primary fermenter














That wonderful smelling Blackberry juice








All that remained after the steaming was finished








Cooling down the sugar water with my ole ice in the zip loc trick.








Water added to 5.5 gallonsand must stirred good






At a must temp of 80 degrees my SG was 1.098








Will let this set until in the morning at which time I will add my Pectic Enzyme and then should be ready to pitch the yeast to it Monday morning before I leave for work. 
Has been a long day and I am ready to hit the sack. Will let the "Steaming" video download while I snooze and will post it in the morning.


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## Wade E (Jul 21, 2007)

Looks awesome! Are you shooying for a finish of 5 gallons?


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## bj4271 (Jul 21, 2007)

That's beautiful!



*Edited by: bj4271 *


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## Waldo (Jul 22, 2007)

Thanks Bruce !!
That was my goal wade, it is heavy bodied enough that I felt I could start out at 5.5 and finish up with a good clean and clear 5 gallon with a bottle or two of good topping off wine for later use. 
And now, for the "Steamer Juicer" video I promised. Short but to the point I guess you could say.


http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d186/wjjames26011/?action=view&amp;current=MVI_0226.flv


I would also be amiss not to mention here that some of theBlackberries used in this batch actually came from The Cats Meow Wineyard. Hopefully, next year I will not be out trying to buy any. Will be using berries exclusively from my patch. Here is a picture of all 10 of them along with
my first picking of Elderberries from the 2 trees I planted this spring. Did not think I was going to get any but a few are ripening now.






Again, I think next year will see a good crop. The trees are really growing and looking healthy.


















</'>*Edited by: Waldo *


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## LeiniePrincess (Jul 22, 2007)

Waldo! You're killing! All the blackberries! I can't wait for the jelly. I'm pretty domestic, however, I haven't gotten into the non-perishables yet. Maybe I'll try some so we can exchange.*Edited by: LeiniePrincess *


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## Waldo (Jul 22, 2007)

Hey Lennie Princess..What are you doing up so early ? Bring some cream cheese and bagels to Winestock with you. The Blackberry jelly goes down pretty smooth with that combo too.



*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Waldo (Jul 22, 2007)

Just gave the must another good stirring and added the pectic enzyme to it. Have decided to go with a Lalvin 718-1122 yeast which should take it to almost dry as it has a tolerance of around 14%. *Edited by: Waldo *


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## LeiniePrincess (Jul 22, 2007)

Bagels and cream cheese. Check. I was about to ask you the same thing last night. I was only midnight-ish where I am. What were YOU do up? Up to no good I'm sure!


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## LeiniePrincess (Jul 22, 2007)

Oh, by the way. Regular bagels and spread? Or fruity? I vote regular.


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## Wade E (Jul 23, 2007)

Waldo be sure to have another yeasy packet ready just incase as there
have been quite a few people that are having problems with that yeast
strain lately, must be a bad batch of the 71B-1122.


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## Waldo (Jul 23, 2007)

LeiniePrincess said:


> Oh, by the way. Regular bagels and spread? Or fruity? I vote regular.




Definately regular lennie.....And I am up around 1-2:30am every day


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## Waldo (Jul 23, 2007)

wade said:


> Waldo be sure to have another yeasy packet ready just incase as there have been quite a few people that are having problems with that yeast strain lately, must be a bad batch of the 71B-1122.




Have been reading that on the posts wade. I am making a starter per the instructions on their web site. Started it about 10 minutes ago so I will be pitching it here soon.


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## CajunTim (Jul 23, 2007)

Waldo, that is looking very good.



What is the ABV that you are shooting for. Sounds like a wine I need to try.


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## Waldo (Jul 23, 2007)

I am shooting for 14% on this one Cajun. Blackberry makes a really good wine..To me anyway. 
Yeast has been pitched....Hopefully I will have a good fermentation in progress when I get in from work this evening.*Edited by: Waldo *


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## swillologist (Jul 23, 2007)

It can't be all bad can it Wade? If anything just a bad lot. The chokecherries are starting to turn good now. In a couple of weeks will start a gallon of it. Will see if the packet of 71B-1122I have left will start.


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## Wade E (Jul 23, 2007)

Do a starter like Waldo is doing so that you know if its good before
putting it in and waiting a few days to find out! You will know within
a few hours if it is good or not this way.


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## Waldo (Jul 23, 2007)

Following the instructions on Lalvin's Homepage I: 

*REHYDRATION:*Dissolve the dry yeast in 50mL (2oz) 
of warm NOT HOT water (40°- 43°C / 
104°-109°F). Let stand 15minutes 
without stirring, then stir well to suspend 
all the yeast. Add to previously sulfited must. 
(The yeast should not be kept in the 
rehydration medium longer 
than recommended.)
My water temp was 106 degrees. I let it set for 14 minutes, stirred well, added to my must and so far..........nothing.....nadda......Whats up with this strain? I gave the must a good stirring, will check it agin in the morning and ifI can detect no action I will pitch a different strain.*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Wade E (Jul 23, 2007)

personally I prefer the Red Stap brand myself. I had a problem with a batch of 

Lalvin yeast(which 1 I dont recall as it was 2 years ago) so I switched
to Red Star and the only problem Ive had was with the Cotes Des Blanc
as it usually takes 2-3 days to start but it always starts, just gets
ya a little nervous every time but I think it does the best with fruit
wines myself.


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## PolishWineP (Jul 23, 2007)

LeiniePrincess said:


> Oh, by the way. Regular bagels and spread? Or fruity? I vote regular.


Waldo, I'm assuming she means plain bagels and plain cream cheese instead of fruity bagels and fruity cream cheese. If you get the stuff with the fruit it will compete with the spread that you bring. (Yes, I like to speak for my children.)


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## LeiniePrincess (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks PWP. Waldo and I communicated just fine. But thanks again.


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## Waldo (Jul 23, 2007)

LeiniePrincess said:


> Thanks PWP. Waldo and I communicated just fine. But thanks again.



















Hey lennie....reckon mommy might have had one too many glasses of kool aid before she read the posts. 


Well, I am making another starter, "MY WAY", I have dissolved a little yeast nutrient and energizer in about 2 TBSP of the must. Added 104 degree water to this mux and pitched the yeast to it about 5 minutes ago. Will see how it does. Oh by the way, I went through my stash and found a packet with a 2008 expiration date so I am trying it. 








20 minutes later I added a little more of the diluted must to the starter and in another 15 minutes I had this going.














Another 10 minutes and she is going good








Will let this continue to work for a couple more hours and then pitch it to my must.









*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Waldo (Jul 24, 2007)

It's about 3:30 am and I have a very strong fermentation going in the starter so I went ahead and pitched it to my must. Should see some activityin my primaryverysoon now. 



*Edited by: Waldo *


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## CajunTim (Jul 24, 2007)

Waldo
Well said:


> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley2.gif[/img]








WALDO....I always say, why mess with a good thing! Seems your way works very well to me.



*Edited by: CajunTim *


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## Waldo (Jul 24, 2007)

At least it did on this one cajun. Them yeasties went to work after I did this morning. Here are a couple of shots of the fermentation in progress when I got home this evening.














*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Wade E (Jul 24, 2007)

Looking good there buddy!


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## Waldo (Jul 25, 2007)

Fermentation on the Blackberry is now at "Full Tilt Boogie" 



*Edited by: Waldo *


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## JWMINNESOTA (Jul 25, 2007)

Looking good Waldo, blackberries around here not looking to good, all the rain this summer went up to northern Princess land. Going out later today to check on a few choke cherries and plums, maybe I can score yet.


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## rrawhide (Jul 25, 2007)

Waldo



I just started a 1 gallon batch of blackberry wine last
night. My wife made a mistake and brought home a flat of fresh
picked fruit. So I snagged 3#+ to try a wine. I have a
recipe from Terry Garey and it calls for 1 campden tablet -IF I want to
use it!!! (very optional) Do I need to add a tablet? It is
still in the juice stage at this point - added the yeast nutrient
and acid blend and late last night added the pectic emzyme.
I have not added the yeast as of yet. I am going to use a
Montrachet yeast. Well, any help would be appreciated - thanx in
advance from a newbie.



rrawhide

rick

prim - blackberry

sec - mm amarone; we gewurztraminer; we cab; we riesling

on order - IM white merlot &amp; IM wildberry merlot

bottled - 0

ready to bottle - 0

drinking - mainly calif commercial BUT saving bottles


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## Waldo (Jul 25, 2007)

I would recommend you use the Campden rrawhide. Make sure it is crushed and dissolved well. Stit it in really good and let it set for at least 12-14hrs then you need to add some pectic enzyme, stir that in well and let it set for another 12-14 hrs before you pitch the yeast.


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## Wade E (Jul 25, 2007)

The Campden will kill any wild yeast in the product and let the strain your introducing do its thing properly!


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## rrawhide (Jul 25, 2007)

Hey hey hey and hi

my wife just brought me a bowl of blackberries mixed with yogurt and
WOW if the blackberry wine tastes 1/2 a good as this it will be
great. Thanx for your help all - the campden tablet has
been added. Tomarrow the pectic and then the next day the
yeast. Gonna be fun - also tomarrow the IM kits should
arrive and should be started soon. Gotta have something to
enjoy so I must bottle the VR Riesling soon. Also, this will
release one of the carboys so I can do more more more!!! E gads
this hobby is addictive!!! George said it would
be!!!!!!!!!! hummmmmmmmmm!!!


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## Waldo (Jul 26, 2007)

Blackberry wine is one of my favorites



My batch continues fermenting nicely, Current SG is 1.068 and the temp has bumped up to right at 77 degrees which is not unusual and will be of no concern unless it gets much higher. I like to keep mine around 72-76 degrees. Did a short video that shows the fermentation nicely.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d186/wjjames26011/?action=view&amp;current=MVI_0263.flv*Edited by: Waldo *


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## CajunTim (Jul 26, 2007)

Nice video Waldo. Looks like a lot of movement going on there. I don't think any of my few wines have fermented that hard as of yet.


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## Waldo (Jul 26, 2007)

Thanks Cajun, that ole lalvin has come through for me again after a bit of coaxing


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## Waldo (Jul 27, 2007)

Racked the Black Widow Blackberry to carboy this evening at an SG of 1.020. I have included a picture that shows my racking from fermenter to carboy technique. Actually racking would not be the proper terminology here as I actually use the spigot on my primary fermenter and just attach a hose and drain to the carboy. Wine is still too sweet and yeasty to tell much right now but it does have a nice blackberry flavor detectable right now. 


























I am hoping this one will finish out asa really nice Blackberry wine. My plans are to bulk age the 5 gallon carboy for at least 6 months. I have 2 oz. of Medium Toast French Oak that I will be adding to it once it is stabilized and clearing.*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Wade E (Jul 27, 2007)

Suprised at how red it looks instead of dark purple like I would think. Looks great though.


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## Waldo (Jul 27, 2007)

The flash made it redder than it actually is wade.


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## Dean (Jul 28, 2007)

looking great! I usually only eat the few blackberries that we get. Of course, i'm lazy, and we live in blackberry country. They grow wild at the side of the roads here, and make HUGE berms to stop traffic noise for residential areas. But to go picking through all that bramble....OUCH!!!!! I'm told that by mid-august, blackberries can be picked at a rate of about 10/lbs per hour. That's not bad... Maybe I can convince the SWMBO to pick some for me.


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## Waldo (Jul 28, 2007)

Wish we had them like that here Dean. A few scratches is a small price to pay for such a great reward. If you can get her to carry through have her pick a couple buckets full extra and send them down this way


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## jobe05 (Jul 28, 2007)

Nice looking Blackberry wine Waldo, good job.

It's unfortunate that your local crop didn't do well this year, our's, even after the frost, did well. If anything, the frost seem to have prolonged the harvest season by not having all the berry crops around town ripen at the same time. Between me and a friend, we picked a total of 170 pounds so far and plan on getting a few more pounds next week. The we are each going to start 6 gallons each of the port and wine, for a total of 24 gallons. Also I just bottled 3 gallons of wine and 6 gallons of port so my blackberry inventory is pretty good right now.


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## Wade E (Jul 28, 2007)

170 lbs., wow jobe!!!!!!! Thats a nice amount.



Does anything else fit in that freezer or did you get another freezer?
*Edited by: wade *


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## Waldo (Jul 28, 2007)

I jealous jobe....WOW !! 170 lbs. I was just glad to have been able to finally found enough good ones here to make my 5 gallon batch. Will look forward now to next year.


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## jobe05 (Jul 28, 2007)

Freezer is overfull now, had to start storing some in my friends freezer. We will start a couple of batches in a couple of weeks, they have to come out of the freezer to make room for at least 80 pounds of scuppernongs, and another 80 of muscadines I have on order.

And I still have the strawberries, raspberries, pumpkin, muscadines (from last year) and the peaches all from last year. Gotta get my butt in gear.


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## Wade E (Jul 28, 2007)

Sounds like you need to get a walk in freezer room!


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## Waldo (Jul 28, 2007)

Or some dry ice and good shipping containers


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 29, 2007)

Jobe...what a nice score to get Blackberries in such quantities, those can be a boom or bust crop.
Freezer space is at a premium here too....
Been juicing up the Raspberries and did the Nanking Cherries....wasn't going to tell...but have 177# of chokecherries in the freezer...going to start juicing them today......will at least pick once more....got to get them while you can...maybe next year there won't be any.


The ones in our yard were so good last year and this year they are slow ripening and the birds take them as they come...a couple neighbors offered their bounties....so will share a neighborhood batch of wine.


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 29, 2007)

Dean said:


> looking great! I usually only eat the few blackberries that we get. Of course, i'm lazy, and we live in blackberry country. They grow wild at the side of the roads here, and make HUGE berms to stop traffic noise for residential areas. But to go picking through all that bramble....OUCH!!!!! I'm told that by mid-august, blackberries can be picked at a rate of about 10/lbs per hour. That's not bad... Maybe I can convince the SWMBO to pick some for me.





Dean...you are surrounded with Blackberries, better get them while you can....I was amazed when I visited my brother on Vancouver Island, his land was covered in brambles.


Where we lived before we had brambles...only one year did we get a bumper crop....it's a flower/frost struggle.


I would love to plant some and have a plot in mind for maybe next years venture.


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## jobe05 (Jul 29, 2007)

Northern Winos said:


> Jobe...what a nice score to get Blackberries in such quantities, those can be a boom or bust crop.
> Freezer space is at a premium here too....
> Been juicing up the Raspberries and did the Nanking Cherries....wasn't going to tell...but have 177# of chokecherries in the freezer...going to start juicing them today......will at least pick once more....got to get them while you can...maybe next year there won't be any.



Thanks NW, It's been a great year here for blackberries. It didn't look promising after the frost, but the frost prove to have helped us pickers by slowing down, or scattering about the ripening times. We have been picking for over 6 weeks here, normally it's over in just a few weeks, and we can still pick, although it is slowing down.

I thought about juicing some of my freezer fruit, but lack in the knowledge of canning the juice to preserve it. What would I have to do?


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 29, 2007)

Jobe...here is what I wrote under the steam juicer thread...



When I can the juice I put it in a big pot and heat it to almost boiling [pasturizing]....I steam the jars in a big pot of boiling water for 5 minutes, pour the juice into the hot jars to about 1/4-1/8 inch from the top, wipe the rims, put on a hot lid heated in boiling water, put on a ring, tighten...it will seal with that small of a head space.....


I do not process the jars, you could if you feel safer. If you want to process the jars...then fill to 1/2 inch from the top [a larger head-space] and process for about 5 minutes in boiling water.


I have more jars than freezer space.


Good luck with your project.


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## Waldo (Aug 3, 2007)

With a nose of blackberry, a hint of grassiness and pepper I drew off a small sample of the still fermenting Blackberry. The taste of the blackberry is easily detected along with a subtle flavor of spices and even had a bit of oakiness flavor to it. I think fermentation will probably be over by the end of the weekendas it has slowed considerably. Getting a bubble in the airlock about every 30-40 seconds. Not a choice background for the picture ( My camera bag sitting on my computer desk) but it gives you a good idea of the color of the wine at present. 








*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Wade E (Aug 3, 2007)

Looking good buddy!


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## rgecaprock (Aug 4, 2007)

Waldo,


I've been kind of out of circulation lately but am trying to catch up with you all. Your new camera is getting a workout I see. Great picutres! The looks like it is going to be some awsome wine!!


Ramona


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## Waldo (Aug 4, 2007)

Thanks Ramona. I am anticipating it being a good one. I just checked SG a little bit ago and it is now at .994 . I will check it again tomorrow evening anf if it is finished, as I think it has will be racking, stabilizingand begin clarifying.


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## stormbringer (Aug 4, 2007)

Waldo,

This forum would not be the same without you. Please keep doing good. Your pics and videos are excellent.



It's too late this year for blackberries in E. Texas but I hope you post your final recipee for this wine because I would like to try and duplicate it.











Just recieved the steamer/juicer I ordered (just like yours) and have started canning juice for future wines. Ican relate towhy you areusing the fish cooker outside the houseto heat the steamer --I'm doing thesame and am impressed by the volume of juice extracted. 


Fellowwinemakers out there who make country wines: Consider buyinga steamer/juicer like the one displayed in Waldo's pics. It'san excellent value and extracts_ ALL _the juice from the fruit.After the juice is extracted all that is left is the skin and seeds.


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## Waldo (Aug 5, 2007)

Thanks storm...You are going to love your steamer. As for my final recipe for the Blackberry. The only adjustment I made from the recipe at the beginning of this thread was I did add another 1TBSP acid blend before I pitched the yeast.


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## Waldo (Aug 10, 2007)

Racked and stabilized the Black Widow early this morning but due to time constraints I did not degass until this evening. I added 5/8 tsp. Potassium Metabisulphite and 2-1/2 tsp Sorbate dissolved in about 3oz warm water and stirred it in good and let it set until this evening.















It took about 8 minutes of stirring to degass this one but I am confident a good job was accomplished.














For those interested, here is a short video of the degassing. I would recommend turning your speakers down unless you enjoy hearing a drill running with a tv blaring in the background.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d186/wjjames26011/?action=view&amp;current=blackberrydegassed.flv
I drew off a sample and it has gained a richer color as well as more complex flavors. For a lack of better terminology at the moment...It was good!!








I added 3 oz of French oak, Medium Toast which I will leave in contact with the wine for 2 weeks and then begin sampling until I reach the level of oakiness I desire. In the Blackberry I like just a hint of oak to it.














The Black Widow Blackberry is now all snug in it's black tee shirt and beginning the clearing process.I anticipate the next racking will occur around September 1st.*Edited by: Waldo *


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## JWMINNESOTA (Aug 10, 2007)

Truly an interesting color to it, cant wait until September!


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## Wade E (Aug 10, 2007)

5/8 tsp of Pot. Meta, just curious as to why so much?


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## nasv (Aug 10, 2007)

Waldo, those are some great pics and a nice demonstrative video! Thanks for sharing! I wish my blackberry batch would be gaining better flavors... its still too "jet fuel"



I think I may have to go for the "extract" method.

-Nico


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## Waldo (Aug 11, 2007)

wade said:


> 5/8 tsp of Pot. Meta, just curious as to why so much?




That is the recommended dosgae from the Mfg. Wade( 1/8 tsp. per gallon) This one will be aged for over a year.


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## Waldo (Aug 11, 2007)

Thanks nav...I believe you would really benifit from and enjoy a steamer/juicer. If you do decide to get one I would get the stainless steel version.


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## Wade E (Aug 11, 2007)

Waldo is this an old bag because I rememberthere being a misprint on a
bunch of the bags. I believe its supposed to read 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons. I hope Im wrong about this but dont think I am.


*Edited by: wade *


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## Waldo (Aug 11, 2007)

It is a relatively new bottle that I got from George around the 1st of April I believe. This is the one I reveived and it still shows 1/8 tsp per gallon. 
http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=7050A


I hope you are wrong too wade












*Edited by: Waldo *


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## grapeman (Aug 11, 2007)

The label looks like it gives 150 mg per gallon at that rate - seems like about twice as much as we usually add. If that is all the batch has ever had it should be ok, but if it has had a few small doses before, it may be higher than desired.


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## Waldo (Aug 12, 2007)

So how much do the campden tablets add? The dosage for them is 1 tablet per gallon of wine. This is the first time I have used the powdered K Meta . 
Have I ruined my Black Widow Blackberry



I sure hope not*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Wade E (Aug 12, 2007)

This is what I was trying to get an answer on awhile ago because it is
too confusing. LD Carlson brand states 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons on all
their stuff nd the crosby states 1/8 tsp per 1 gallon on theirs yet
every recipe I read states to add 1/4 tsp to their batch to age
properly. Surely these 2 brands cant vary that much in strength of Pot
Meta can they. If so I would not want to add all that powder to my
batch if I can just add a little of the LD Carlson. By the way Waldo
something else just struck me as funny as I have a bag of the Crosby
&amp; Baker Pot Meta in my wineroom that I have not opened that states
1/8 tsp per gallon for *100 ppm*
free SO2? What the heck is going on here? Is their product that screwy
that eac bag as to be added in different amounts? I really dont like
this and believe this a problem that needs to be solved. I have pmed
both Masta and George on this to hopefully get an answer.


*Edited by: wade *


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## stormbringer (Aug 12, 2007)

Waldo,
Here are a couple of descriptions of K-Meta/campden tablet SO2 contentprovided by various sources on the internet:


Each campden tablet contains 0.50 - 0.55 grams of potassium metabisulfite; chemically speaking, each tablet contains 57% sulphur content; therefore, 1 tablet per gallon = 75 ppm SO2.<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />


I read conflicting accounts of the SO2 in K-Meta. One source says 1/16 tsp. per gallon water = 55 ppm SO2. Another source says1/4 tsp. =40 - 50 ppm SO2.


At any rate it appears a little goes a long way.

I purchased a bottle of campden tablets because a lot of the fruit wine recipees call for it. Have not had anyadverse effects in my wines by using 1/4 tsp. of K-Meta in the must instead of the X number of campden tablets per gallon formulas. 


I have yet to use any of the campden tablets. My K-Meta additions seem to work for me.


At fining, I use 3/4 tsp. K-Meta (in addition to sorbate, isinglass, etc.).


As an aside, I read in this forum that filtering tends to remove some or all of the K-meta. If this is true, I'll add 1/4 tsp. totheprimary bucketthat I filter in to at bottling.


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## Wade E (Aug 12, 2007)

To add to that and Im sure you know this Waldo as youve been making
wine longer than me, your batch is not ruined by any means. It is
either right on the money if the products do vary that much or it is a
little over sulfited which might just need a little heavy racking or
aging a little longer.


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## Waldo (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks wade...Will wait and see what George has to say.


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## masta (Aug 12, 2007)

I know the labeling by Crosby &amp; Baker and LD Carlson does lead to confusion but I will give you the facts as I know them in regards to addition of powder K-meta.
Based on these assumptions which most resources tend to agree on.


<UL>
<LI>1/8 tsp = .75 grams or 750 milligrams ofpotassium metabisulfite (K-meta) sold by retailers like George 
<LI>K-meta powder contains 57.6 % sulfur dioxide 
<LI>50% of the total SO2 added will become bound and leaves 50% as free SO2. Free SO2 is what we are concernedabout to protect our wines. 
<LI>1 US gallon equals 3.78 liters 
<LI>milligrams per liter or mg/l is the same as parts per million or ppm</LI>[/list]


Using these assumptions above the math works out like this:




<LI>1/8 tsp or 750 mg of K-meta contains 432 mg of Total SO2 (750 x 57.6%) 
<LI>After 50% of the total SO2 becomes bound 216 mg is free SO2 (432 x 50%) 
<LI>In one gallon 1/8 tsp of K-meta should yield 57 mg/l or 57 ppm free SO2 (216 / 3.78)</LI>


In Waldo's case of adding 5/8 tsp of K-meta to 5 gallons this should have added ~57 ppm of free SO2.









*Edited by: masta *


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## Wade E (Aug 12, 2007)

I guess I will just have to use the Accuvin free SO2 test to know what
the heck Im doing since Im the farthest thing from a scientist!




*Edited by: wade *


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## Waldo (Aug 12, 2007)

Thanks Masta...Does that mean then taht if you are using LD Carlson theirs is stronger or you are not adding enough


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## peterCooper (Aug 12, 2007)

As an added question, how does SO2 attenuate over time. If it is 100ppm at bottling, where should it be after 1 year, 2 years etc?


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## masta (Aug 13, 2007)

Until someone can confirm that Crosby and LD Carlson are selling two different strengths of K-meta I would suggest following the directions by the kit makers of adding 1/4 tsp/1.5 grams of K-meta for extended aging (past 6 months to 5 years under good storage conditions). This should add roughly ~20 ppm of free SO2 to a 6 gal/23 L batch.


I would follow the same math when adding K-meta to fruit wines and you have doubts on the free SO2 levela test kit might be in order. The levels can change before the wine is bottled depending on how much the wine is stirred during degassing and exposure to the air during multiple rackings. A good target range for any wine for protection over time is 30-50 ppm of free SO2. 


BTW: Don't forget the amount of molecular SO2 (which is what provides the true protection for the wine) increases in the unbound or free SO2 as the temperature increases and pH decreases. This means a lower pH wine stored in a warmer place needs less free SO2 levels for the proper protection for extended aging.






I have not found much info on the SO2 loss in bottled wine other than there is a slow reduction (anywhere from a few ppm a year to 20-30% after 5 years) and storage conditions due play a role in the loss also.


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## geocorn (Aug 13, 2007)

According to Mosti Mondiale, it takes about 3 months for the free SO2 to leave an airlocked carboy; however, if the vessel is sealed, like a corked bottle, there is nowhere for the SO2 to go, so you don't have to worry.


As to how much to add, I think Masta's research and calculations are the best I have seen, so no need to worry, Waldo.


I do wish the manufacturer's did a better job of labeling. I plan to package and label my chemicals at some point in time and I will be very specific and clear.


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## Waldo (Aug 14, 2007)

So if I understand, which Im not sure I do




The instructions on the K Meta are correct and continue using in the amount instructed.


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## masta (Aug 14, 2007)

I would suggest to use the following guidelines when using K-meta:
In one gallon 1/8 tsp of K-meta should yield 57 mg/l or 57 ppm free SO2 (216 / 3.78)


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## Waldo (Mar 31, 2008)

Yesterday was going to be the day for bottling my "Black Widow Blackberry" as well as a batch of Muscadine. I ended up having to leave to help out a friend and did not get back until late last night so back to storage they went until this weekend. I did manage to get this picture though.








I also drew me off a little sample of a Strawberry/Reisling that will be ready to bottle soon.






Will be adding some red grape concentrate to this prior to bottling to give it a redder color. A trick NW taught me that works really well.


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## Waldo (Jul 28, 2008)

Remember the batch of Muscadine I had to pour out.........This was it






*Edited by: Waldo *


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 28, 2008)

WHY!!!!!





Was it the one the air lock came off and a few fruit flies was floating in????


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## grapeman (Jul 28, 2008)

Does the wine glass read "Sit Long Talk Much"? I like that!


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## Waldo (Jul 28, 2008)

Yes to both of you NW and appleman. 
I sure wish now I had not put off bottling it when i started to.


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