# First timer SP questions



## BigDaveK (Jan 31, 2022)

First, I went through a bunch of old threads and - Oh My God - there's a wealth of information here!! I am so glad I found you wonderful people!
Second, I was going to use Italian Volcano (which is my preferred brand) but Costco didn't have ANY. Bummer. Probably on a boat.
I'll be making a big batch (6 gal) and the room is in the low 60's this time of year. Not a problem, I have pads, wraps, and stats from making kambucha. With booch the stat is higher on the vessel closer to the SCOBY and the yeast is at the bottom. So I'm guessing the stat with SP will be midway or lower. Thoughts?
Also, seems to me the temps from the surface of the plastic primary won't be as accurate as the glass secondary. I don't want to over heat. I plan on taking instant read temps, of course, but any suggestions before I get started will be appreciated.

Am I overthinking this too much?


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## hounddawg (Jan 31, 2022)

Welcome to WMT


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## Arne (Feb 1, 2022)

Biggest problem will be getting it to start. If you can warm it up to the mid 70's or so to get it started, then it should keep on fermenting at 60. Will be a little slow but given time will finish out. Arne.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 1, 2022)

The kits I started in November were all started and fermented between 63 and 66 F. All went well. Make an overnight starter to get the ferment started.


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## Fencepost (Feb 1, 2022)

SP is really,... really hard to get started at the lower temps... as @Arne said.. 75F+... also, I've had luck by starting with only one quart of lemon juice, add the others later (several folks mentioned this, @cmason1957, @Rembee). Low pH will be an issue, if you add too much lemon juice at the beginning. EC1118 yeast with a strong yeast starter.


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## Arne (Feb 2, 2022)

really want to get it going in a hurrry?Like the origional recipe said, rack another ferment off the lees. Put your ingredients in with the old lees. Get the temp. up between 75 and 80. Shouldn't need any new yeast. Should be fermenting in less than 24 hrs. If you use lees off a strong flavored wine, you will get a hint of that flavor mixed in with it. Arne.


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## BigDaveK (Feb 2, 2022)

First batch started! This is exciting!
Got everything going yesterday morning. Brew pad and kambucha stat are holding the bucket at 75 degrees. (Took direct reading with instant read thermometer to confirm.) Added yeast this afternoon. No lees to use this time of year though I would like to try that.
I plan on using some of the suggestions I found here. (Thanks everyone!) Most notably, a bit less lemon juice at the beginning, add at the middle, add at the end.
I am having way too much fun.


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## BigDaveK (Feb 3, 2022)

First batch skeeter pee update. 18 hours after adding yeast.
Yeah, this is exciting.



Reduced initial lemon juice a bit, pH 3.2ish (test strips, no meter...yet), holding temp at 75.
I'm getting thirsty.


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## Handy Turnip (Feb 10, 2022)

Think I'm going to give this a go too! I've got some Tronozynol, which is a combo of nutrient and energiser - any ideas how much I should try and use?


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## Jovimaple (Feb 10, 2022)

Handy Turnip said:


> Think I'm going to give this a go too! I've got some Tronozynol, which is a combo of nutrient and energiser - any ideas how much I should try and use?


If the package has dosage instructions, I'd start with that.


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## ChuckD (Feb 10, 2022)

Mine is on day 4 and fizzing away. I used Vines-n-bines recipe so it’s a little different. It’s in a carboy now and looks like pepto because I used strawberry lemonade instead of lemon concentrate. It tastes yummy already!


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## Handy Turnip (Feb 14, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> If the package has dosage instructions, I'd start with that.


Dosage instructions weren't overly clear so went for an educated guess.

Pitched the yeast starter on Friday - after 24 hours it was bubbling away, and after 48 hours the sg was down to 1.050, so added the last bottle of lemon, some more nutrient/energiser and gave it a good whip. It went crazy after that. And checking tonight (just 24 hours later) it is already down to 1.000. 

At this rate it'll be done by tomorrow, which seems incredibly fast. Too fast in fact! Feel like I've done something wrong!!


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## Jovimaple (Feb 14, 2022)

@Handy Turnip Sounds like it's all going well!


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## Handy Turnip (Feb 15, 2022)

Checked this morning, and it's down to around 0.996/0.998. Gave it one last stir up, and I'll give in another 24 hours just in case it can go any further. Then I'll be ready to rack. Getting excited by this one now.


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## BigDaveK (Feb 15, 2022)

@Handy Turnip, I'm right there with you, pal! I'll be racking my first skeeter pee and dragon blood tomorrow AM. Today will be like Christmas Eve - don't know if I'll sleep tonight.


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## Retired teacher (Feb 15, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> @Handy Turnip, I'm right there with you, pal! I'll be racking my first skeeter pee and dragon blood tomorrow AM. Today will be like Christmas Eve - don't know if I'll sleep tonight.


Exactly what I have in my carboys right now - Skeeter Pee and Dragon Blood! Never made them before and I am anxiously awaiting the results!


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## Handy Turnip (Feb 16, 2022)

@BigDaveK, @Retired teacher - sounds like everything is going to plan! Hope you got some sleep @BigDaveK 

I racked my SP to my carboy earlier and gave it a good degas. I've got a left over suphite\sorbate mixed packet from an old Winexpert kit (as I ferment my kits to dry, I never use them as I don't need the sorbate), so thought I'd take the opportunity to use that. I also had some Vin Classe 2 stage rapid wine finings so thought I'd give them a go too! Fingers crossed that I start to see some evidence of clearing in the next 24 hours or so...


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## Jovimaple (Feb 16, 2022)

Handy Turnip said:


> I've got a left over suphite\sorbate mixed packet from an old Winexpert kit (as I ferment my kits to dry, I never use them as I don't need the sorbate), so thought I'd take the opportunity to use that.


Sorbate has a limited shelf life. If it's more than a year old, it may not work so fermentation could continue if you backsweeten. If it were me, I would use newer sorbate.

My friend bought a 3 gallon dessert wine kit last year that was from the year before, and we think the sorbate failed because the bottles began to leak. Thankfully no bottle bombs but when he uncorked them, they were fizzy.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 16, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> Sorbate has a limited shelf life. If it's more than a year old, it may not work so fermentation could continue if you backsweeten. If it were me, I would use newer sorbate.


You reminded me of *this thread* from before Christmas, which discusses sorbate lifespan.


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## Handy Turnip (Feb 16, 2022)

Thanks @Jovimaple, @winemaker81 - that's something I wasn't aware of at all, so really useful to know!! 

I've already used the packet unfortunately, so too late to go back now (and I don't have anything else). Looking back at my notes, I only stopped using the pre-mixed WE sulphite/sorbate packets back in March 2021, so it should be only a year old at most. The packet is one of the factory sealed ones (paper with foil interior - rather than see-through plastic). Also looking at another WE kit I have, it has a 15mth best before date, which makes me hope that the manufacturers are relatively confident of it lasting longer than a year.

Obviously none of this is ideal, and if I'd known then I wouldn't have risked it - but I'm hoping I might just get away with it. I'll give it plenty of time after back sweetening to make sure!!!


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## winemaker81 (Feb 16, 2022)

Handy Turnip said:


> Obviously none of this is ideal, and if I'd known then I wouldn't have risked it


Don't worry about it -- you're fine. A sorbate vendor stated the product is good for 12 months, _longer if properly stored_, although the fact sheet didn't describe that. From other research, I discovered that is needs to be kept away from air and light, at a stable temperature.

I keep the packets for 12-13 months after purchase, which allows for the kit vendor's manufacturing timeline, and sitting on the shelf in the LHBS, etc.


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## hounddawg (Feb 18, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Don't worry about it -- you're fine. A sorbate vendor stated the product is good for 12 months, _longer if properly stored_, although the fact sheet didn't describe that. From other research, I discovered that is needs to be kept away from air and light, at a stable temperature.
> 
> I keep the packets for 12-13 months after purchase, which allows for the kit vendor's manufacturing timeline, and sitting on the shelf in the LHBS, etc.


yes i keep all my chemicals in a ammo box, no oxygen, no light, including my yeast,,,
Dawg


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## Handy Turnip (Feb 18, 2022)

Thanks @winemaker81 , @hounddawg - makes me feel a whole lot better!

I've now got to be patient as it goes through clearing, something I really struggle with! I'm used to the wine kits clearing perfectly in 36 hours, so this will be a real test!! 

It's been 48 hours so far, and I can see evidence that it is clearing as I can see sediment now clinging to the side of the carboy, but no real difference in colour or cloudiness. But I know it's early days, hopefully I'll see more progress by early next week.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 18, 2022)

Handy Turnip said:


> I've now got to be patient as it goes through clearing, something I really struggle with!


Patience is the hardest thing to learn. My FWK Chardonnay cleared rather slowly -- I'm used to kieselsol/chitosan working like a chalkboard eraser, almost instantly working. After a few days I forced myself to not look at the carboy, and a week later it was clear.


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## hounddawg (Feb 18, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Patience is the hardest thing to learn. My FWK Chardonnay cleared rather slowly -- I'm used to kieselsol/chitosan working like a chalkboard eraser, almost instantly working. After a few days I forced myself to not look at the carboy, and a week later it was clear.


coming from @winemaker81 i find funny, lol
but each of us has a pev
Dawg,


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## cmason1957 (Feb 18, 2022)

Handy Turnip said:


> I've now got to be patient as it goes through clearing, something I really struggle with! I'm used to the wine kits clearing perfectly in 36 hours, so this will be a real test!!



I'm with Bryan. The way I solve that patience thing is I do something with the wine, like clear or add tannin or almost anything, give it a good stir. Walk away and don't look at it for a week or maybe two. It's almost always clear by then, if it's going to clear. It's not patience it's procrastination. The best thing you can do for most things in winemaking. (I might go so far as to say for anything, except bad odors, gotta deal with those quickly).


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