# Peaches Vineyard



## grapeman (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm beginning this thread for peaches to tell us about her planned vineyard




I'm thinking about turning 1 or 2 acres into agrape trellislol and to think I just started with the hobby of making wine not even a month ago! OK so I'm addicted already but I've been working on getting the75 ft in size concord vines we have in working order and I have added a couple candice vines but the trellis is so old and elapidated, that I just want to tear them out. I just planted the candice last fall. So thier not fully established yet. and the acreage I plan on using has been a vege garden or field I should say. So it won't be a proplem of clearing the space, I also have bros and the equipment to work the ground up again for such. My question is what grapes should I plant? I'm in north eastern ohio and I will primarily be making cabernet sauvignon, and white zin or better yet could you refer me to some good books on best trellis and also would like some info on pruning. I've had these plans in back of my mind for over a year now so don't think I'm just jumping into everything at once. btw I do have an addictive personality though lol 
thanks alot


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## R Ziegler (Sep 7, 2009)

Well I found a website to help answer your questions and get you started. 


http://www.ohiowines.org/


Since I am Minnesota I can't say what grows wellwhere you are. However, you probably can't grow Cab Sauv. because info points to Zone 7. Cab Franc is listed under zone 6, which is the far southern part of the state and along Lake Erie. The rest ofthe state falls under Zone 5. 


Here is a link to Iowa State Univeristy and varieties they have done testing on.


http://viticulture.hort.iastate.edu/cultivars/cultivars.html


If I would suggest a variety - it might be Norton/Cynthia grape. At one time it was called, The Cabernet of America. Or some of the new grapes from the Geneva research facility - like Coiret Noir or Traimentte (sp?) or even some of the varieties from the University of Minnesota - LaCresent, Marquette, Frontenac Gris or Frontenac (this one ripens better in zone 5w/ lower acidity) then in zone 4.


I have placed a link to 2 differentUSDA Hardiness Zone Maps. They differ a bit, but not to much.


http://www.growit.com/bin/USDAZoneMaps.exe?MyState=OH


http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html


I would recommend contacting a few of the local wineries by phone and ask them some questions, or better yet call them and ask if they can spare some time to meet w/ you at their vineyard and show you around. Then you can see what they are growing and ask them what grows well and what seems to cause them headache.


I hope this helps you out.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 7, 2009)

thanks r and appleman I was able to download the picture resizer and I played around with it a lil bit I'll get some pics of my rack I bought at home depot on clearance for 20 bucks!




the only thing is the shelves aren't high enough to put a upright carboy in but I'll just have my bro fix it. Maybe saw slots in it so that a carboy with an airlock will fit.And I've called a vineyard yesterday but realized they probly don't take calls on Sunday but I was able to leave a message. And not to just visit but I want to volunteer. Thanks again for the great advice and the links!


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## peaches9324 (Sep 9, 2009)

trying to get some pics posted


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## AlFulchino (Sep 10, 2009)

there is also a program i think is called VESTA from u of Mo....it is online....ask nh dennis about it...it looks very interesting


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## peaches9324 (Sep 10, 2009)




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## peaches9324 (Sep 10, 2009)

I did it I finally got a pic posted.. now to get some more posted! I'll do that tomorrow it's late now gotta get some sleep. thats that's my rack I got at home depot on sale for 20


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## Tom (Sep 11, 2009)

Looks like the begining of a Wine Cellar !


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## peaches9324 (Sep 11, 2009)




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## peaches9324 (Sep 11, 2009)

look at all the lees at the bottom of that carboy! well if anyone knows how I could posibly make a slideshow of these pics I have I



different software such as kodak and adobe. Or just to post all the pics without having to make a different post every time. and my rack is almost in full use
thanks alot


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## grapeman (Sep 12, 2009)

You can upload your pictures to a photo hosting service such as photobucket and then add the links tothem here. You can also put more than one picture per post here although sometimes it is slow doing it. They need to be added one at a time. Once the first one is loaded, make sure the cursor is after the first picture and then add another one. I usually click the first picture once to highlight it, then puch the end key and then the enter key to move to a new line. Then you click the insert image button and add another.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 16, 2009)




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## peaches9324 (Sep 16, 2009)

the land where my future vinyard will be


looks like it's not going to happen till next year but that gives me time to get educated in it


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## grapeman (Sep 17, 2009)

It would be great if you could chop the grass and plow the sod under (killing first with roundup would be even better). That would allow the sod to break down before planting next year.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 17, 2009)

you mean chopping the grass down, then raking it, then applying roundup? Or do I just apply the roundup on the weeds befor hand? that will take alot of roundup lol and do you know where I would possibly order the vines from? I haven't volunteered yet at a winery so I have no idea where to get them from. And what about the trellis, which ones work well?
thanks


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## R Ziegler (Sep 17, 2009)

Don't get to far ahead w/ spraying and cutting and digging. 



What type of spacing do you plan on using(ie..8x10, 6x10, 10x12, etc...)?
How many rows do you plan on installing?
How long are the rows going to be?


If you can answer the first 3 questions - the number of vines will be answered for you.
Because in the end you could end up not moewing, killing anddigging enough area up and then try to play catch-up for the other part of the area you need or you end up working up way to much ground and having to replant grass in an area you wouldn't of had to. No need to spend any more money then needed or having to do something more than once.


Just don't leap before you look - I mean you can always moew the whole thing down, but buy some wire flags and do some measuring. Cause once you set the posts it takes a whole lot of work to move them.


as far as where to get the vines - you could probably google it


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## grapeman (Sep 17, 2009)

Rudy she mentioned at the beginning of the thread that she is looking to do one or two acres of grapes. That is a lot and I agree research and planning needs to be done. 


I mention mowing the grass. That is done in preparation for applying Roundup. You could mow the whole darn thing without doing any damage or comitting to any set size. The mowing makes the grass start greening up again, which is necessary for applying Roundup effectively. 


You will need to decide what varieties you want to plant. I am assuming you want mostly hybrids for the cold hardiness. Don't overdo it to get started, you can always add more later. Planting vines is a big comittment- just like kids. You need to do more than plant and harvest. Read all the way through my Champlain Valley vineyard thread and you can get an idea of the amount of work needed to bring just an acre of grapes into full production.


As far as sources, if you want a rough idea of prices for planning check these out


www.rakgrape.com Double A Vineyards


http://www.nevinesupply.com/ Andy Farmer @ Northeastern Vine Supply


There are many more, but this will let you do some prliminary planning.


If you decide to plant one acre, then after mowing lay out the area- north south is generally better. It is also better to have fewer longer rows (within reason). It takes less trellis supplies to stretch the rows out. If you kill the grass this fall, then you can plow it and harrow it once or twice and it will let the sod break down over the winter. Then in the spring you can till it again and would be set to plant- unless you decide to put the trellis in first.


You have time to prepare and do it right the first time. Consider how much wine you want to have and what you will do with it. Figure roughly one gallon per vine with the hybrids. You can legally make 200 gallons per household, so you could supply roughly 3 or four households with just one acre of vines.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 17, 2009)

Yea I had already changed my mind on the acreage I decided 1/2 acre will keep me busy enough lol I planned on going out tomorow and getting it mowed and probly stakeing it out too. I had planned on making some calls tomorow. And you mentioned not to long, how long should the rows be kept at? And thank you for all your help. And I have started reading your thread, that's what got me going on this idea! lol And what is the ideal soil ph again? I'll be sure to mark it down this time! thanks for all your help!


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## R Ziegler (Sep 18, 2009)

appleman said:


> Rudy she mentioned at the beginning of the thread that she is looking to do one or two acres of grapes.










Well, I didn't know if she had changed her mind on the size, and just wanted to stress the planning portion.


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## grapeman (Sep 18, 2009)

You can have the rows up to a few hundred feet using pretty standard stuff, like 12.5 guage high tensile wire, normal sized posts and 30 inch anchors. Gripples will keep it tensioned at that distance . Once you get over a few hundred feet, sometimes it's best to break the rows up a bit.


Soil pH for grapes is ideal about 6.2, but yes, that can vary somewhat also.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 18, 2009)

ok new location for my vines. my bro warned me of clay right beneath the top soil,so I'm going with the west side although there are the neighbors tall trees they only block out some of the sun in the evening. And I have 2 blk walnut trees on the east side this all means less work too! no brush hogging the field cuz it's all grass on the west side not to mention the deer are farther away!




I'll run out tomorow and take some pics of my new location. In the mean time I want to purchase a kit of beaujolais my fav! Can anybody give me a recomendation of a kit that's good but won't break the bank?
thanks


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## peaches9324 (Sep 18, 2009)

question re: hardiness zone I know I'm in zone5 and I know I can't plant anything from zone 6 and above what about zone 4? just curious cuz I ran across a vine for zone 4.
thanks


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## grapeman (Sep 19, 2009)

You can certainly plant vines from a colder zone! Now a zone 4 vine might not do well in zone 10, but will do great in zone 5.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm making pics smaller to try so be patient with me


new location of vinyard






















the old grape vine












a candice vine I just planted last spring
I thought maybe if I made the picssmaller it would take less time but I was w r o n g


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## grapeman (Sep 19, 2009)

It is a pain uploading the pictures. They go slow. That's why I don't do a lot of them, it just takes too long. I use google Chrome to upload the pictures- it is about 10 times faster than doing it in Internet Exploder. 


By the way, I like the new spot.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 22, 2009)

ok appleman since I have a new location for my vines and it is grass wouldn't applying roundup kill the future vines also? Or does it just kill exsisting grass only? (Not too familiar with lawn chemicals) I had planned on putting roundup on it, letting that kill the grassthen plowing in leaves as some extra mulch.Does that sound like a good idea? And having that all done befor winter hits. btw my pear wine is clearing nicely but doesn't have any sweetness to it at all. Is this something that only time will tell?
thanks


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## grapeman (Sep 22, 2009)

Since the grass is well established and nicely kept up, see if you can get a 3 foot wide tiller or one that can do that in a couple passes. If so, just apply the roundup in a 3 foot band where you want the rows to be. Roundup is a systemic contact herbicide. It only kills what it touches- but kills the whole plant because it moves down into the roots. It is not a residual spray, so won't hurt future grapes. It can even be applied during the growing season as long as you don't get spray drift on any growing part of the vine. 


By keeping the grass in theaisles, you won't have to reseed the area.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 22, 2009)

ok! Thanks for the insight I really appeciate it! How far apart would you recomend the aisles be set at? I'm thinking 4 ft? I'm sure I have read how far you set yours apart but I am taking full advantage of your experience



thanks I can't wait to get started! I'm going back to read your post again!


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## hannabarn (Sep 22, 2009)

Rich, it looks like you have another fan!!!


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## peaches9324 (Sep 22, 2009)

I know barney I'm becoming his protege


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## grapeman (Sep 23, 2009)

You need to consider the size of your equipment you plan to use in the vineyard. Will you be using a farm tractor or a garden tractor for mowing, sprayng, etc. Yo don't want to plant too close and have to do things all by hand. My rows are set at nine feet apart and that is barely enough. I use a farm tractor that has the wheels set at 5 1/2 feet, plus the tire width. That all makes it almost 7 feet wide so I only have a foot of clearance on either side. If you aren't limited a lot by the size of it, you can go closer, but I still would not go closer than 6 feet at the least.


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## R Ziegler (Sep 24, 2009)

The rule of thumb that I have always heard is - Never make your rows any closer then the trellis system is high. But then you alo have to consider the type of trellis system you intend to use ( a GDC will make your rows a bit wider cause of the over hang ) and like Rich said - the size of your equipment. And if you are talking acres (eventually) doing it all by hand might become more of a chore then fun.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 25, 2009)

stupid question? some of my old grape vines that I pruned hard last fall are covered with what I can only describe as razor stubble. And this is my first time having pruned grape vines so I don't know what to expect.
please tell me this is normal and I'm just worrying for nothing 
thanks


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## peaches9324 (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm no botanist but I'm thinkingit might be some sort of protection since it is new wood any insight will be highy appreciated
thanks


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## grapeman (Sep 26, 2009)

I can't figure out what you are describng. Maybe a picture would help here.


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## peaches9324 (Sep 26, 2009)

here is a pic hope you can see the hairlike coverage













you can't tell on this one as much


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## peaches9324 (Sep 26, 2009)




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## peaches9324 (Sep 26, 2009)

here is another


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## grapeman (Sep 26, 2009)

From what I can see with those, they look pretty much normal. Growth looks fine. This time of year they start darkening in color in preparation for winter. There are lots of tendrils and that's OK. I wouldn't worry about them.


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## AlFulchino (Sep 26, 2009)

i am not sure if this vineyard equipment point has been made, so forgive me because i have not been able to read all the posts....make sure you consider the necessary turning radius at the end of all your rows that will be necessary...and MAKE SURE that you factor in the equipment that your tractor will be carrying or towing such as sprayers..

a tight turning radius w a sprayer on board will just be *looking* to hit your endposts while you look forward down the row


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## grapeman (Sep 26, 2009)

It sounds like you speak with experience there. Chuckle, chuckle- been there done that. Nothing like discovering you have hooked a posts wire as you turn and see a few posts lay down with vines on them!


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## AlFulchino (Sep 26, 2009)

or ripping a spray nozzle off because you took the turn too tight


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## grapeman (Sep 26, 2009)

I keep spares now- even the holders can get bent beyond recognition.


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## AlFulchino (Sep 26, 2009)

yep and that leads to another suggestion.....affix a tool box to your tractor to hold tools and a few spare parts


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## peaches9324 (Sep 26, 2009)

I will indeed do that! always be prepared! And I plan on using the garden tracter since it has all the attachments I will need...mower,tiller etc I have to go out to the garage and take measurements the mower is the widest attachment so if I space the rows according to the width of the mower (because it exceeds the width of the tires) that should be suficient + an extra foot, foot an 1/2? And I don't mind learning from somebody elses misstakes! You two are cracking me up!


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## peaches9324 (Sep 26, 2009)

by the way here is just the pic of my label for my pear wine haven't decided writing on it yet


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## AlFulchino (Sep 26, 2009)

since you will be spraying w a garden tractor, you are likely to be close to the spray....please begin to think about the force of the spray coming out of the nozzle...hotting the floage and bouncing toward you...or the wind even a light one carrying some of it toward you......do a few run thru's w just water in the spray tanks...gets some miles under your belt doing that and work out the kinks of the equipment...and you also will be able to determine what speed you must travel at in order to apply teh proper amount of active ingredient


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## peaches9324 (Sep 26, 2009)

what would the difference be spraying with a yard tractor? Which would you prefer for a smaller vinyard such as mine will be.. I'm thinking maybe 2 or 3 rows @ about 1 or 2 hundredfeet to start. Haven't been outside to do measurements yet still trying to gather all the info possible. Having both yard tractor and garden tractor looken for best method. I will however keep the distance b/t the rows so I can switch to the other tractor if needed.
thanks for all your insight!


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## grapeman (Sep 27, 2009)

So do your tractors look like this:














Or this


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## AlFulchino (Sep 27, 2009)

no enclosure in the cab area is a *possible* problem...for instance i have pointed my spray heads at a 45 degree angle going into the canopy ( not angled up or down) so that i can get right inside the canopy....the angle is towards the front as I drive...i know that in my case if my cab was not partially closed that w certain breezes i could get some drift into the seating area....

many spray set ups point at a 90 degree angle to the canopy....that would be fine in my view *only* if it was assisted by an air blast set up

if your droplet size is fairly fine then it needs to be blasted w good pressure into the canopy or else any breeze could carry it onto you...thats ok if you plan on wearing a chemical suit...if you do...send us all a picture 

and make sure the spray heads are fairly close to the canopy....i know Rich has made his adjustable so that as the canopy comes out into the row he can withdraw the booms...point being you want the spray immediately on your vines w little chance of finding the ground...in my case, i hedge the vines and have fixed arms

like i said..run some trials jus w water and you will learn a lot....how much pressure...what speed you need...what obstacles are in the path that never crossed your mind..you would be suprised at the little things that show themselves

the last thing you want to be is 100 yards from the house finding out that you just coated yourself w something other than plain water

you may even wish to affix some plastic shield behind you on your tractor to keep drift from coming your way


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## peaches9324 (Sep 27, 2009)

big lawn tracter


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## peaches9324 (Sep 27, 2009)

the lil lawn tracter


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## peaches9324 (Sep 27, 2009)

garden tracter


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## peaches9324 (Sep 27, 2009)

another of the garden tracter yea it's pretty old but it will get her done I will have to come up with some kind of a shield


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## grapeman (Sep 28, 2009)

You have a good set of tools for doing your yardwork and vineyard.


I wouldn't get too hungup on shields for spraying. I spray early morning or evening only when the wind is calm. If I have to spray and the wind is breezing more than a couple miles per hour, I determine the wind direction and only spray if I can spray so the material moves away from me. If I need to, I spray all one direction to keep it moving away from me. Spray one way, go back to the other end without spraying and then spray the next row. Your few rows will be easy doing it that way. I also wear a Tyvek suit, nitrile gloves, respirator mask and hat. Also follow any clothing recommendations on the label, such as longsleeved shirt and rubber boots. It can get pretty warm all suited up. another reason to spray mornings and evenings.


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## OilnH2O (Sep 28, 2009)

appleman said:


> I also wear a Tyvek suit, nitrile gloves, respirator mask and hat. Also follow any clothing recommendations on the label, such as longsleeved shirt and rubber boots. It can get pretty warm all suited up...



Man, I'd like to see a picture of THAT!


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## peaches9324 (Sep 28, 2009)

ok I will invest in a full haz mat outfit! and yes some pics of that I will do



we might have a sprayer unit out there in the garage somewhere I'll have to ask my bro but if not, could you recomend one to me
again thank you appleman for all your help!


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## AlFulchino (Sep 28, 2009)

the only issue that i have w spraying only all in one direction is time...it more than doubles your application time.....if your like me, time is always at a premium


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## grapeman (Sep 28, 2009)

Yep, time is a premium, but if it means getting a spray on or waiting, I put the spray on if I need it on at that time. I've seen too many times where I waited for better weather only to have it get worse for days. 


I can't justify a sprayer cab. I figure I have so many pesticides in me by now, they act more as preservatives than anything!


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## peaches9324 (Feb 13, 2010)

it's been awhile since I've posted anything on my vineyard progress and I have a serious question! Which post to use? wooden post or the metal ones? pros and cons? cost efficient? we're still blanketed by snow here in NE Ohio But I'm itching to get started and prepared. The ole sayen rings true here "out like a lion in like a lamb" and we've just experienced the lion and not so patiently waiting for the lamb!



thanks I appreciate all the insite you have to offer!


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## grapeman (Feb 13, 2010)

You can use either of them, but I like the round wooden posts when available at a decent price. Tractor Supply or similar will get them in soon if they don't have them yet for the spring. Lowes or Home Depot probably would have them also. Use 4-6 inch for line posts and six inch or larger for end posts.


I like that saying also but around here it is March that if it comes in like a lion goes out like a lamb. That still has to arrive and leave...........


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## peaches9324 (Feb 13, 2010)

lol




but you get the just of it.. winter-out like a lion spring-in like a lamb. And it's been known to snow here in late april too! I'm just so darn impatient! and thanks for your input


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## peaches9324 (Mar 10, 2010)

my pear wine was a big hit with family and friends! Only have about 5 btles left 4 after I give one to my sis this afternoon. And I wanted it to age a lil longer in the btle too lol I'm gonna make a big batch of it this year and have to take orders for it! havemy vines ordered for this spring planting too



so excited! And THANKS to all who helped with the making of my pear wine! And I'm sure I'll have more questions once I get my vines


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## peaches9324 (Mar 21, 2010)

I have ordered my red grape vines the beginning of this month and am looking to order some white grape vines but the vines I want to order (brianna vines) are highly susceptible to crown gall and I've been looking into this desease and found that applying potash instead of nitrogen fertilizer is recomended. And have read that copper compounds help downy mildew and may help crown gall as well. My queston is - is there an all in one fertilizer with the copper compounds or is this already included in the potash? I didn't want to over fertilize and burnmy lil babies.
thanks


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## grapeman (Mar 21, 2010)

Chances are you have adequate levels of copper in the soil already but only a soil test would say for sure. You need to know how much of each to apply and only apply that much. Something like copper is best applied as a foliar feed since it is a micronutrient. Some of the miracle gro products contain copper and another useful one-zinc, so that would be easy and quick to apply when wanted and needed. Remember just because a little is good- a lot isNOT better.


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## peaches9324 (Mar 21, 2010)

_I'm gonna order a 4 in one soil analyser also but I had just wondered. As I'm reading I think of these questons to ask the forum.



So far in all my plantings I have done here, which include nut trees, shrubs, flowers, a few blck berryand vegesI've used the miracle grow or just a 1/4 handful of lime and they have been flourishing. Like I said I just don't wanna burn the new babies and plan to test the soil befor they go in thanks again appleman! I don't know how you find the time to answer these questons b/t your job and vineyard but I'm sure glad you do



_


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## peaches9324 (Mar 25, 2010)

R Ziegler said:


> Well I found a website to help answer your questions and get you started.
> 
> 
> http://www.ohiowines.org/
> ...


 do you know of any nursery I might purchase norton/cynthia from?


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## grapeman (Mar 25, 2010)

Double A Vineyards carries them, but are listed as sold out. You could call them if you can't find (listed under Cynthia at Double A) and ask if they might have a few or b put on a list for next year. 


As far as posts and trellis, you can use the wood your nephew brought you. Some untreated wood is alright to us. Are you sure it is pine? Most pines aren't real long lasting. What I have is White Cedar-which is naturally rot resistant without treating. There are some new treatments I haven't used so I can't speak for them. Some soak in motor oil, but I don't like that idea. Plain old cedar has been used for centuries to make cattle fences and last 20-30 years around here as long as it is a fairly big post.


I find stapling to the post with fencing staples works best as it can be moved or the post replaced easily if need be. When I first put some in, I drilled through the post like you say and regret it to this day. I can't move the wires wiothout pulling that whole row through the posts and totally redoing.


To keep the wires tight, use gripples to fasten the wires at the ends (hook the wire through the eye of the anchor and pass back through the gripple. I believe they have videos of the process if you need. You will also need some type of earth anchor for the ends of the rows. When they are all hooked up, you can tighten the wires using the gripple tensioning tool. Have fun. 


Here is a link to Gripple's video library
http://www.gripple.com/library/?tag=Agricultural&amp;q=Agricultural


If you don't have the wires up before then, our local growers association will be videoing the process at an upcoming future meeting- but you will probably be done by then. To help someone like you is the reason we are doing the series of videos we are. This weekend we are doing one on different types of pruning.


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## peaches9324 (Mar 25, 2010)

oh I intend on using the gripples but I thought the staples wouldn't give leeway to tighten the wire



but it all depends on how tight the staples are in is this correct? I haven't checked out that link you sent me as of yet but I do intend on doing so as soon as I send this. And I phoned josh and he says that wood is black locustI thought he said they were pine the other day.So I think I'm pretty much set. I was looking at copper coat green wood preservative. I might purchase that or do ya think it would be a waist of my money? I was reading about black locust and it is pretty sound wood untreated. Would there be any downfall me treating the black locust? and again thank you appleman


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## grapeman (Mar 25, 2010)

That is super news! You can't beat black locust. Here in my sand I have posts that have been in the ground since the 1890's- not 1990's! They are harder than a rock though so you may have a bit of a time with fence staples. You can buy these instead and the wire clips into them. They attach with nails which will bend less in the locust.



http://www.orchardvalleysupply.com/ovsstore/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=17


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## peaches9324 (Mar 25, 2010)

thats great news cuz I had already intended to buy some of my supplies from that site! thanks again! I sure do appreciate it! So josh was right when he said it would out last me!


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## grapeman (Mar 25, 2010)

peaches9324 said:


> thats great news cuz I had already intended to buy some of my supplies from that site! thanks again! I sure do appreciate it! So josh was right when he said it would out last me!






Unless you set a new worlds record for the oldest living person- they will probably outlast you and me. I tried to get the logger to cut me some locust while he was cutting the cedar- there was a stand right there where he had made the landing! He probably figured the cedar is easier to cut.


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## peaches9324 (Apr 10, 2010)

appleman said:


> That is super news! You can't beat black locust. Here in my sand I have posts that have been in the ground since the 1890's- not 1990's! They are harder than a rock though so you may have a bit of a time with fence staples. You can buy these instead and the wire clips into them. They attach with nails which will bend less in the locust.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.orchardvalleysupply.com/ovsstore/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=17



funny thing is josh now says he wants to drill hole in post for the wire after I showed him the nails I baught.. is this at all possible being black locust? And am wondering if I baught the correct wire..12.5 gage brace wire? 

thanks alot


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## grapeman (Apr 10, 2010)

It is called 12.5 guage high tensile wire. Brace wire is usually soft and stretches. Where did you buy it and are you sure it is brace wire? It can be used, but you will have to tighten and loosen it every year. The high tensile stretches just a little so you leave it that way over winter and then just tighten a bit next spring.


I really wouldn't drill them. If you use the twist nails with the black plastic things I linked above it will work good for most locations. You can staple the main wires to the posts and use the others for the catch wires. You can also use the plastic things for all but the top wire. Run that over the top of the post to make over the top bird netting go on easier.


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## peaches9324 (Apr 10, 2010)

yea I bought 12.5 guage brace wire at TSC. And I had the black thingys with the nails as in the link above. And josh told me to take them back cuz he planned on drilling. And tsc said they didn't have the 12.5 gauge high tensil wire. But I just phoned them and they said that they do have it in now.Josh was conserned about the plastic dry rotting. I'm going to take the brace wire back and get the high tensil wire, the black thingys and nails! 
thanks again appleman


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## peaches9324 (Apr 15, 2010)

appleman said:


> Double A Vineyards carries them, but are listed as sold out. You could call them if you can't find (listed under Cynthia at Double A) and ask if they might have a few or b put on a list for next year.
> 
> 
> As far as posts and trellis, you can use the wood your nephew brought you. Some untreated wood is alright to us. Are you sure it is pine? Most pines aren't real long lasting. What I have is White Cedar-which is naturally rot resistant without treating. There are some new treatments I haven't used so I can't speak for them. Some soak in motor oil, but I don't like that idea. Plain old cedar has been used for centuries to make cattle fences and last 20-30 years around here as long as it is a fairly big post.
> ...


 hey appleman can you please give me the link to the local growers association? I would like to check out the different types of pruning also
thanks!


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## grapeman (Apr 16, 2010)

To get to the site, go to my website and click the LCW Forum tab or LCW tab, those are where we will be placing them. This is all volunteer member work and hasn't been placed on those sites yet. I will let you know when we get them there though. You did sign up to the forum and I approved you so you can get in there.


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## peaches9324 (Apr 16, 2010)

thanks appleman and I have checked it out quicklywhen you approved me,what a beautiful site it is! If only I lived closer I would be sure to visit some of your events.


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