# Beginning a new batch



## Sunshine Wine (Feb 6, 2020)

Ok, I would like some help in starting a new batch with my dark muscadine juice. I have all these quart jars that I need out of the way...lol. I will do 6 gallons. It has a lot of pulp in it, so I am going to strain at least some of it off. I am wanting it to be on the sweeter side and not overly dry. Any recommendations and ideas are welcome.


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## cmason1957 (Feb 6, 2020)

I don't know much about muscadine wine, but there is someone on the forum, who raises muscadines and makes wine from them every year. @garymc Hopefully he will see this and respond.

If you have just juice, no skins, I would assume you should strain it and remove the pulp, take the remaining juice, add sugar to get to about an SG of 1.080 or so and ferment it to dry. That should give you about 10-11%ABV alcohol. I would guess it will take about 2 weeks of fermentation time, start in a bucket, then when fermentation slows down rack to a carboy. After fermentation finishes, add KMeta (1/4 tsp for 6 gallons), let sit and rack about every three months. After 6 months to a year, assuming it is clear,if not consider adding fining agents like DualFine (SuperKleer). When clear add more kMeta and potassium sorbate, test sugar amount to add and add to your 6 gallons, wait a week or so and bottle. It really is not much different than fermenting anything else into wine. I have no idea what would be a good yeast, if you need to worry about potentially acidic wine or not.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 6, 2020)

That is what I have done with my first very small batch. I did not strain any of the pulp, though. It is quite dry right now but is still very early. It is also quite clear already! Only about 6 weeks after first rack. Plan to rack again at end of March. I did add sugar in the beginning and it is at right around .999- 1.000 when I racked at beginning of January. Just wanting a sweeter wine. I know I can back sweeten, but not exactly sure when I should do it. Maybe at the 9 month mark after I rack and then should I wait the final 3 months, rack and bottle?


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 6, 2020)

Oh duh...just re-read the last of your message...lol...sounds good! I also tagged @garymc. Thanks for the reply!


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## garymc (Feb 6, 2020)

Lalvin 71B-1122 is commonly used on muscadines, but without the skins, it might not matter so much. You could strain the pulp, or let the yeast have its way with it and then rack off what's left of it. I have always made my wine from crushed muscadines including the skins. I usually drink my canned juice or use it for jelly. Craig meant, and you know, rack every 3 months and add K-meta at each racking. He said wait a week or so after the backsweetening to bottle. You could stretch that if you want, but don't shrink it. I've had some sediment issues after I was sure the wine was stable and the only thing I can see that I might be messing up is that I use a vacuum pump, the All-in-One, to bring the wine from a carboy on the floor to one on a table and I've assumed that this amount of vacuum treatment is adequate to get rid of the CO2. Maybe it wasn't. So, now I shake it some while I'm racking it.


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

question, i make only sweet country wines and use pectic enzymes to break down my pulps from my fruits and berries, i have muscadines in the woods pasture but have not messed much with muscadine except to eat as many as my mouth(large belly) can handle, finally my question would pectic enzyme break down that pulp some, making more juice to ferment ?


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> That is what I have done with my first very small batch. I did not strain any of the pulp, though. It is quite dry right now but is still very early. It is also quite clear already! Only about 6 weeks after first rack. Plan to rack again at end of March. I did add sugar in the beginning and it is at right around .999- 1.000 when I racked at beginning of January. Just wanting a sweeter wine. I know I can back sweeten, but not exactly sure when I should do it. Maybe at the 9 month mark after I rack and then should I wait the final 3 months, rack and bottle?


when you back sweeten at bottling time (for me) use k-meta and sorbate to stop refermention, i like my wines sweet 1.030 to 1.040


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## garymc (Feb 7, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> question, i make only sweet country wines and use pectic enzymes to break down my pulps from my fruits and berries, i have muscadines in the woods pasture but have not messed much with muscadine except to eat as many as my mouth(large belly) can handle, finally my question would pectic enzyme break down that pulp some, making more juice to ferment ?


That's a good point. I forgot about pectic enzyme. I use it with crushed grapes and I would use it with the juice with pulp. If there is a pectic haze in the juice without pulp, the first thing to do is add pectic enzyme. If the juice was heated in the canning process, you can count on active pectin. I also forgot to mention about using some yeast nutrient when you add the yeast. I'm away from home and don't have any of my resources handy.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

Actually, I just found that my "muscadine" juice is blackberry! I was told it was dark muscadine, but, no! It came from a friend of a friend who was going to do wine but decided not to. So I took it...


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## cmason1957 (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Actually, I just found that my "muscadine" juice is blackberry! I was told it was dark muscadine, but, no! It came from a friend of a friend who was going to do wine but decided not to. So I took it...



Well now, that changes things, but not a whole lot. Most recipes you find on the web for blackberry call for adding lots of water, when I make it I only add water to help bring the PH to the normal level for a wine (around 3.2-3.4). Then add lots of sugar to get the PH to about the same starting as above, plus or minus a bit, lots of pectic enzyme to break down any pectin, same reason as Gary gave for the muscadine. Piece of cake to make.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 7, 2020)

Wild or domestic Blackberries? Either way - They make a great wine - Very solid flavor in the right Lbs/gallon use. Typically with wild blackberries you don't need more than 5-6 lbs per gallon but.... since you were given juice...I'd go with it as is once you can get the SG where you want it. It's not tough to get it to clear but still add pectic enzyme and I'd just go without any filtering - perhaps pour the juice through a fermentation bag and then just tie the bag and put it in your fermentation bucket.

Sounds like a great gift to you.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> Well now, that changes things, but not a whole lot. Most recipes you find on the web for blackberry call for adding lots of water, when I make it I only add water to help bring the PH to the normal level for a wine (around 3.2-3.4). Then add lots of sugar to get the PH to about the same starting as above, plus or minus a bit, lots of pectic enzyme to break down any pectin, same reason as Gary gave for the muscadine. Piece of cake to make.


It is now at 1.134 SG. No water added and no sugar yet. Just now putting it in the buckets. Should I add sugar or water?


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> Well now, that changes things, but not a whole lot. Most recipes you find on the web for blackberry call for adding lots of water, when I make it I only add water to help bring the PH to the normal level for a wine (around 3.2-3.4). Then add lots of sugar to get the PH to about the same starting as above, plus or minus a bit, lots of pectic enzyme to break down any pectin, same reason as Gary gave for the muscadine. Piece of cake to make.


I don't have pectic enzyme and did not use it in my first small batch... ??


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## sour_grapes (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> It is now at 1.134 SG. No water added and no sugar yet. Just now putting it in the buckets. Should I add sugar or water?



You should re-check that SG. That is unreasonably high. How are you measuring?


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> You should re-check that SG. That is unreasonably high. How are you measuring?


With a hydrometer. Directly in the bucket... I may be reading it wrong...lol.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> With a hydrometer. Directly in the bucket... I may be reading it wrong...lol.


Right where the pencil is pointing.


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Actually, I just found that my "muscadine" juice is blackberry! I was told it was dark muscadine, but, no! It came from a friend of a friend who was going to do wine but decided not to. So I took it...


even better i make blackberry very good


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> Well now, that changes things, but not a whole lot. Most recipes you find on the web for blackberry call for adding lots of water, when I make it I only add water to help bring the PH to the normal level for a wine (around 3.2-3.4). Then add lots of sugar to get the PH to about the same starting as above, plus or minus a bit, lots of pectic enzyme to break down any pectin, same reason as Gary gave for the muscadine. Piece of cake to make.


yup what cmason said is right on point, very light on water lots of sugar,


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> yup what cmason said is right on point, very light on water lots of sugar,


The SG is at 1.134 right now without adding sugar... I have 8 gallons total in buckets. Have not added yeast or nutrient yet...


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Right where the pencil is pointing.


Ok, I think I was reading it backwards. I believe it is 1.026.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> You should re-check that SG. That is unreasonably high. How are you measuring?


I believe it is actually 1.026. I want it to be more like a table wine. What should I do??


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> The SG is at 1.134 right now without adding sugar... I have 8 gallons total in buckets. Have not added yeast or nutrient yet...


yeah i still have to be line out,, lol i'd add sugar till you are at 1.080 add yeast nutrient, i myself doing non-grape wine my main yeast is EC-1118 , these others can tell you what to run your SG to to get around 11% ABV to 13% ABV, run till dry around 0.998 rack every 3 months , adding k-meta at each racking, when you get ready to back sweeten add k-meta and sobate, then backsweeten to fit your liking,after backsweetening wait a couple weeks before bottleing to make sure your ferment is stopped let age at least 9 months, i like for blackberry to age 2 years, skeeter pee is a lot quicker, so you'll have drinking wine, you'll find lon's skeeter pee recipe on here,


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> I believe it is actually 1.026. I want it to be more like a table wine. What should I do??


when it is done you can put some in a cup sweeten till you like the us that SG for you FSG


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> yeah i still have to be line out,, lol i'd add sugar till you are at 1.080 add yeast nutrient, i myself doing non-grape wine my main yeast is EC-1118 , these others can tell you what to run your SG to to get around 11% ABV to 13% ABV, run till dry around 0.998 rack every 3 months , adding k-meta at each racking, when you get ready to back sweeten add k-meta and sobate, then backsweeten to fit your liking,after backsweetening wait a couple weeks before bottleing to make sure your ferment is stopped let age at least 9 months, i like for blackberry to age 2 years, skeeter pee is a lot quicker, so you'll have drinking wine, you'll find lon's skeeter pee recipe on here,


The SG is actually at 1.026 right now. Have not added any sugar yet and not put in the yeast or nutrient yet. I heated the juice before putting it in the buckets, so am letting it cool.


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## Chuck E (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> The SG is actually at 1.026 right now. Have not added any sugar yet and not put in the yeast or nutrient yet. I heated the juice before putting it in the buckets, so am letting it cool.



Not sure why you would want to heat the juice. How hot did you heat it? 

You will need the Pectic enzyme. Use FermCalc to determine the sugar needed. You will need at least a couple pounds.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

Chuck E said:


> Not sure why you would want to heat the juice. How hot did you heat it?
> 
> You will need the Pectic enzyme. Use FermCalc to determine the sugar needed. You will need at least a couple pounds.


Because I don't know how old it is. It is home canned juice so wanted to make sure there was no bacteria.


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

Chuck E said:


> Not sure why you would want to heat the juice. How hot did you heat it?
> 
> You will need the Pectic enzyme. Use FermCalc to determine the sugar needed. You will need at least a couple pounds.


agreed, i never heat my stuff, but i do freeze my fruits and berries to brakdown the cell walls


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2020)

as long as the lids were still vacuumed you're good to go


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## sour_grapes (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Ok, I think I was reading it backwards. I believe it is 1.026.



Correct. And that is more like what we would expect from many fruit juices.

Glad you figured that out!


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## cmason1957 (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Ok, I think I was reading it backwards. I believe it is 1.026.



I agree it is something like 1.026, so now you need to raise that some, if you spin that hydrometer around a little bit, you will see a scale called PA or Potential Alcohol or Alcohol By Volume. That's how much alcohol (about) will be produced, if all the sugar gets eaten by your yeast. Right now it is below that 5 you can see in your picture, something like 3.5. You generally want that to be something like 10-11% (an sg reading of 1.075-1.080) for a fruit wine. Maybe a little bit higher, but not much. So you go to this website - http://www.fermcalc.com/FermCalcJS.html (or download the app to a phone/tablet device). Click on the the Sugar, then Chaptalization & Dilution. Chaptalization means to add sugar, comes from the name of some person. You enter your target and initial sugar, how much volume you have and there you go, how much sugar to add.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> as long as the lids were still vacuumed you're good to go


Yes, all sealed! The berries are all broken down pretty good already.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> I agree it is something like 1.026, so now you need to raise that some, if you spin that hydrometer around a little bit, you will see a scale called PA or Potential Alcohol or Alcohol By Volume. That's how much alcohol (about) will be produced, if all the sugar gets eaten by your yeast. Right now it is below that 5 you can see in your picture, something like 3.5. You generally want that to be something like 10-11% (an sg reading of 1.075-1.080) for a fruit wine. Maybe a little bit higher, but not much. So you go to this website - http://www.fermcalc.com/FermCalcJS.html (or download the app to a phone/tablet device). Click on the the Sugar, then Chaptalization & Dilution. Chaptalization means to add sugar, comes from the name of some person. You enter your target and initial sugar, how much volume you have and there you go, how much sugar to add.


Ok, that says to add 10.83 pounds of sugar! Sounds like a lot!! I am not adding any more water, since I am assuming the home canned juice had water added to it already.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 7, 2020)

Whew ! That updated SG reading is more like it. Yeah, You should get some pectic enzyme (There are a variety of types available including liquid variety) Best to use that right away. If you have to add it later that's better than not adding it but now would be best.
Add sugar/Simple Syrup solution and get the SG up somewhere above 1.080 (11.81 ABV)

Eight Gallons (8!!!) Wow that's going to make a lot of great wine for you.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Whew ! That updated SG reading is more like it. Yeah, You should get some pectic enzyme (There are a variety of types available including liquid variety) Best to use that right away. If you have to add it later that's better than not adding it but now would be best.
> Add sugar/Simple Syrup solution and get the SG up somewhere above 1.080 (11.81 ABV)
> 
> Eight Gallons (8!!!) Wow that's going to make a lot of great wine for you.


Ok, I just ordered the PE. Will it be ok to add after I begin the fermentation? I have the juice in the buckets and don't have room to refrigerate it until the PE arrives..


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## Johnd (Feb 7, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Ok, that says to add 10.83 pounds of sugar! Sounds like a lot!! I am not adding any more water, since I am assuming the home canned juice had water added to it already.



Just for your peace of mind, I double checked on fermcalc, the 10.83 lbs of sugar is correct to get you to the 1.080 mark.

It'll be ok to add pectic enzyme after fermentation has started. At this point, without a lot of solids in the must, it's most important function for you will be to aid in clearing later in the process.


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## garymc (Feb 7, 2020)

One of the reasons for using Lalvin 71b-1122 yeast is that it eats some of the acid and you don't have to take other actions to reduce the acidity as much. The other reason is that it leaves more fruit taste and aroma.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Just for your peace of mind, I double checked on fermcalc, the 10.83 lbs of sugar is correct to get you to the 1.080 mark.
> 
> It'll be ok to add pectic enzyme after fermentation has started. At this point, without a lot of solids in the must, it's most important function for you will be to aid in clearing later in the process.


Ok, great! Thanks so much!


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Just for your peace of mind, I double checked on fermcalc, the 10.83 lbs of sugar is correct to get you to the 1.080 mark.
> 
> It'll be ok to add pectic enzyme after fermentation has started. At this point, without a lot of solids in the must, it's most important function for you will be to aid in clearing later in the process.


I am ready to add the sugar and yeast and nutrient. Can I just put the sugar in directly or do I need to do a simple syrup?


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## Scooter68 (Feb 7, 2020)

Dissolving that much sugar into a simple syrup will take a pretty big pot but >> IF << you are planning on adding any water then it's not a big deal. Doing it that will will help you be sure it's all dissolved. BUT you can just stir it into juice - that will be a LOT of stirring.
For a simple syrup with about 11lbs I would use about 10 cups of water to dissolve that much sugar. At least that way you won't have to worry about having it all dissolved. 10 cups to 8 gallons is just a little more than 1/2 gallon of water.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

I have 4 gallons in each 5 gallon bucket. Sugar in and dissolved. Now for the yeast and yeast nutrient.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 7, 2020)

All ingredients added except for pectic enzyme. Will have it on Monday. Also ordered some PH strips. Now to wait for fermentation to start. Excited for this new batch! The one on the right is still slightly warm, so it is already getting started.


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## cmason1957 (Feb 7, 2020)

I like to stir my wines while they are fermenting a couple or three times a day. I think it helps keep the yeast in suspension and the yeast like the oxygen. Given that, I don't put an airlock or a lid on while it is starting fermentation. I ferment in white or great Brute trash cans, they are food grade, same as those buckets you have. I just put my trash can lid on loosely or covered with a cloth. Either way works. Just giving you something to think about.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 7, 2020)

Yes, save time and energy. Just get a couple of old towells or bedsheet material tie that down around the top with a cord. Too many people try to watch airlocks on buckets and worry when the don't bubble - More often than not they won't bubble or not for long as they don't seal well anyway. Go with cmason1957 suggestion.

By the way pH strips are not a lot of good with dark/red wines. Save up and go for a digital pH meter. They take a little time and attention to calibrate but you get much better info from them.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 9, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Yes, save time and energy. Just get a couple of old towells or bedsheet material tie that down around the top with a cord. Too many people try to watch airlocks on buckets and worry when the don't bubble - More often than not they won't bubble or not for long as they don't seal well anyway. Go with cmason1957 suggestion.
> 
> By the way pH strips are not a lot of good with dark/red wines. Save up and go for a digital pH meter. They take a little time and attention to calibrate but you get much better info from them.


Ok, so I just have the lids sitting on top of the buckets. How long do I leave them that way and stir each day? Then do I seal them back up and leave for a week or so till the fermentation stops?


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 9, 2020)

And now it's overflowing!! Eeek!!


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 9, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> And now it's overflowing!! Eeek!!


What do I do?


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## Chuck E (Feb 9, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Ok, so I just have the lids sitting on top of the buckets. How long do I leave them that way and stir each day? Then do I seal them back up and leave for a week or so till the fermentation stops?



At least a week. At the end of 7 days, check the SG with your hydrometer. When the SG does not change for 3 days in a row, the batch is complete. Then you should transfer to the carboy.


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## Chuck E (Feb 9, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> What do I do?



Keep stirring. Transfer a little bit to the other bucket.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 9, 2020)

Chuck E said:


> Keep stirring. Transfer a little bit to the other bucket.


Both buckets are doing it now...lol


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 9, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Both buckets are doing it now...lol


Will stirring more help it go down or make it slow down...


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 9, 2020)

I am just worried about contamination... The buckets are 5 gallons and I put 4 gallons of must in each, thinking a gallons worth of space would be sufficient...


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## Chuck E (Feb 9, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> I am just worried about contamination... The buckets are 5 gallons and I put 4 gallons of must in each, thinking a gallons worth of space would be sufficient...



Throw away whatever spills out. Keep the lids really clean. Stirring will break down the foam. I would not worry about contamination too much. It's going to slow down on its own.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 9, 2020)

Chuck E said:


> Throw away whatever spills out. Keep the lids really clean. Stirring will break down the foam. I would not worry about contamination too much. It's going to slow down on its own.


Ok, thanks! I am not afraid of fermentation. I make my own yogurt, kombucha, and sour kraut, but did not want to ruin 8 gallons of must!!


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## Scooter68 (Feb 9, 2020)

Well - At least you KNOW that fermentation is happening! 




Yes, If your fermentation is that foamy, stir often, It should slow within a day or two. The other good news is if it's going that strongly it should finish quickly too.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 11, 2020)

Chuck E said:


> At least a week. At the end of 7 days, check the SG with your hydrometer. When the SG does not change for 3 days in a row, the batch is complete. Then you should transfer to the carboy.


Ok, once it is finished, and my SG is constant, and I transfer to the carboy, then should I put the airlock on it, add k-meta and leave for about 3 months? Rack again, add k-meta, and leave for 3 months again, etc....


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 11, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Yes, save time and energy. Just get a couple of old towells or bedsheet material tie that down around the top with a cord. Too many people try to watch airlocks on buckets and worry when the don't bubble - More often than not they won't bubble or not for long as they don't seal well anyway. Go with cmason1957 suggestion.
> 
> By the way pH strips are not a lot of good with dark/red wines. Save up and go for a digital pH meter. They take a little time and attention to calibrate but you get much better info from them.


Just checked PH and it is right on the 3.6. I am assuming that is pretty good...?


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## robert81650 (Feb 11, 2020)

Sounds just right.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 11, 2020)

Put it in a carboy once fermentation is done & Add K-meta.
Personally I would not wait 3 months for the first racking. Wait 2-4 weeks for the sediment to collect and compact at the bottom. Then rack it once more. At that point wait the remainder of that 3 month period and rack. First couple of rackings (From bucket to carboy and then carboy-to-carboy to eliminate sediment.)are driven by conditions rather than time. After the majority of the sediment is gone time will do the rest of the job for you. 

That pH is at the upper end of what you want BUT within 'normal' bounds.

By the way when you do that first rack to the carboy, you can take any excess that doesn't fit in the carboy and put it in a smaller galss container and chill it down in the fridge. ( That bottom portion is where you will pick up some sediment and chilling it in the fridge helps settle the sediment down quicker.) THEN you can pour the clear off and airlock it. Use it for topping off in the next racking. I keep several smaller glass containers (12, 16, & 20 oz) for just that purpose. Even having a 1/2 gallon or 1.5 liter container comes in handy. As long as they are glass and you can fit an airlock on them... it all works. Just keep that airspace to a minimum in each container (less than 1" if possible)


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 15, 2020)

Checked SG last night...1.000 in one bucket and 1.002 in the other. The higher one is still bubbling slightly. Will continue to check it over the next few days and wait for it to stop bubbling. It has been 8 days today since I began this batch. I want a sweeter wine, so I assume back sweetening is the best way to do that closer to bottling time, correct?


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 15, 2020)

I am looking forward to seeing how this new batch does!


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 15, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> That pH is at the upper end of what you want BUT within 'normal' bounds.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 15, 2020)

Is there any way to adjust the PH?


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## Chuck E (Feb 15, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Checked SG last night...1.000 in one bucket and 1.002 in the other. The higher one is still bubbling slightly. Will continue to check it over the next few days and wait for it to stop bubbling. It has been 8 days today since I began this batch. I want a sweeter wine, so I assume back sweetening is the best way to do that closer to bottling time, correct?



Yes, That is the best way to do it.


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## Chuck E (Feb 15, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Is there any way to adjust the PH?



Yes, you can add acid or base to make it go up or down, but you're pretty close. I would leave it be.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 15, 2020)

This the blackberry correct? 
If so... Yes, you could actually rack the wines into a carboy now just go slow and watch for any sudden foaming activity. To be safe hold off on filling the carboys - leave about 3-4 inches at the top. Don't add any K-Meta yet, let the fermentation finish completely. At this point when the SG reading that holds steady for 3 days or longer consider the fermentation over.

From that first racking (From bucket to carboy) you can take the additional and put that in a smaller glass container chill that down to separate the lees out of it. That last amount, coming from the bottom of the bucket will have more lees so that's why I suggest a separate glass container and chilling it down. The chilling will also dramatically slow the fermentation or stall it. Then when it's been in the fridge a day or two - then you can top off that carboy and leave about 1" of space from your airlock. 

At 8 days in things are winding down based on time and more importantly the SG reading - that's why I recommend racking now - to add protection via airlock now that the CO2 blanket is thinning out.

As far as back-sweetening, yes, blackberry needs a little to bring back the flavor, how much is up to you. Best to wait until just before bottling to do that. Let time take off the sharpness and allow all the excess CO2 to gas out of the wine. Blackberry should be aged at least 6-9 months. Even longer if you can be patient - You will see the difference. Also since you started with 8 gallons I think ?? you can also do a shorter bulk aging for part of if and longer bulk aging for the rest. That way you can enjoy some sooner and decide if you hit the right amount of back-sweetening.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 15, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> This the blackberry correct?
> If so... Yes, you could actually rack the wines into a carboy now just go slow and watch for any sudden foaming activity. To be safe hold off on filling the carboys - leave about 3-4 inches at the top. Don't add any K-Meta yet, let the fermentation finish completely. At this point when the SG reading that holds steady for 3 days or longer consider the fermentation over.
> 
> From that first racking (From bucket to carboy) you can take the additional and put that in a smaller glass container chill that down to separate the lees out of it. That last amount, coming from the bottom of the bucket will have more lees so that's why I suggest a separate glass container and chilling it down. The chilling will also dramatically slow the fermentation or stall it. Then when it's been in the fridge a day or two - then you can top off that carboy and leave about 1" of space from your airlock.
> ...


Awesome! Thanks so much for the advice and time to help me! And yes, this is the 8 gallons of blackberry.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 15, 2020)

If you have a 5 gallon carboy and a couple of 1 gallon carboy sI imagine that will work out. That 8 will probably drop to at best 7 - 7-1/2 gallons with the initial sediment losses. Get some spare glass containers. I've found 12 and 16 oz used Kombucha (sp?) bottles that standard airlocks and drilled bungs work on so the little extra amounts can be airlocked and saved for topping off after the next racking.
Sounds like another successful start to wine making.


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## Sunshine Wine (Feb 15, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> If you have a 5 gallon carboy and a couple of 1 gallon carboy sI imagine that will work out. That 8 will probably drop to at best 7 - 7-1/2 gallons with the initial sediment losses. Get some spare glass containers. I've found 12 and 16 oz used Kombucha (sp?) bottles that standard airlocks and drilled bungs work on so the little extra amounts can be airlocked and saved for topping off after the next racking.
> Sounds like another successful start to wine making.


I have a 6 gallon carboy and 2 more 1 gallon demijohns, so I am sure I will be good to go. I have an extra refrigerator in the garage, so I can put the extra in there. I sealed the buckets with airlocks for now. Will check SG and rack to the carboy and demijohn in the next day or two. Thanks!


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## AlphaGrayWolf (Feb 27, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Right where the pencil is pointing.


 I was gonna say, that looks like 1.028 to me... but I am a real noob LOL


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## Sunshine Wine (Mar 1, 2020)

Finally got around to racking my new batch! As you can see, there are 7 and a half gallons. SG stands at exactly 1.000. I plan to put the gallon demijohns in the refrigerator for a couple weeks and re-rack and add k-meta then. One question...should I wrap the 6 gallon carboy to keep it "in the dark"?


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## Scooter68 (Mar 1, 2020)

Just avoid having it in direct sunlight. A closet or a cover over it should do fine - I'd be focused on keeping it at a constant temp for however long you intend to age it. Hint - Try to find some smaller containers for that partial container and if it won't all fit - perhaps a little taste testing might be in order. Just keep in mind at this point it will be a bit on the sharp/biting side.


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## Sunshine Wine (Mar 1, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Just avoid having it in direct sunlight. A closet or a cover over it should do fine - I'd be focused on keeping it at a constant temp for however long you intend to age it. Hint - Try to find some smaller containers for that partial container and if it won't all fit - perhaps a little taste testing might be in order. Just keep in mind at this point it will be a bit on the sharp/biting side.


That partial container is only for topping off the other two once I rack again in 2 weeks. It has some sediment in it, so am just letting it settle for that reason. Still, might taste test after next rack! Just to see...


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## Scooter68 (Mar 1, 2020)

Got it. If you can put in a smaller container that will help protect it - even if it's in a wide mouth quart jar with a good lid on it. No gas build up will happen once it's in the fridge and it will settle out faster too.


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## Sunshine Wine (Mar 3, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Got it. If you can put in a smaller container that will help protect it - even if it's in a wide mouth quart jar with a good lid on it. No gas build up will happen once it's in the fridge and it will settle out faster too.


Thanks, will do!


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## Sunshine Wine (Mar 4, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Thanks, will do!


So it won't blow the lid? It still has a few bubbles coming through the airlock, but not actively... I skeered! Lol...


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## Chuck E (Mar 5, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> So it won't blow the lid? It still has a few bubbles coming through the airlock, but not actively... I skeered! Lol...



Don't be skeered, you are doing it right.


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## Sunshine Wine (Mar 5, 2020)

Chuck E said:


> Don't be skeered, you are doing it right.


Lol..thanks!


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## Sunshine Wine (Mar 28, 2020)

Just racked both my batches. First 2 gallons on the right are 3 months old. Second larger batch on the left is about 3 weeks old.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jul 4, 2020)

Hello everyone! Been a while since I posted. I racked my blackberry wine a couple days ago and added the k-meta. Looking good! The waiting is hard...lol! Do the airlocks need to level out before I consider bottling, once I get to that point, of course? Will rack again at the beginning of October. There is not much lees at all now and the taste is not as strong as it was last rack. Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy!!


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## KCCam (Jul 4, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Do the airlocks need to level out before I consider bottling,


No, the actual level in the air lock means nothing. Once the fermentation is complete, no more CO2 is produced, but it will still be released from solution (degassing). Once no more CO2 is being released, the liquid in the air lock should not move, but won’t necessarily be level. Temperature changes can affect it too.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jul 4, 2020)

Great, thank you!


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## Sunshine Wine (Jul 4, 2020)

So how will I know when it is time to backsweeten and bottle? I want to give it the best amount of time to be as good as I can get it.


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## iridium (Jul 4, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> So how will I know when it is time to backsweeten and bottle? I want to give it the best amount of time to be as good as I can get it.


For me with fruit wines the key is that the wine is clear I check the bottom after each racking to see if and sediment is still dropping. Once there is no sediment then I start thinking about bottling. You also want to make sure that no co2 is left. Tasting it to see if it is flat or has zip will help determine that.
As others have said when back sweetening please do taste tests. Make up a simple syrup and the start doing ratios so you know at what point you have added enough syrup to bring out the flavors you want. One think to remember is go a little lighter on sweetening than you think because the wine will age in the bottle and get slightly sweeter.


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