# Bochet and tannins



## EelfinnTy (Jan 13, 2014)

I started a Bochet mead at the end of november, moved it to secondary 2 weeks later and have let it set ever since. Yesterday I pulled it off the lees and had a "little" taste. I'm liking where it is headed but there was an unpleasant way it coated my tongue. After sprinkling some wine tannin in my glass it really helped. 

I've been trying to decide which of my options would leave me with the best final wine. 

Wine tannin - from chestnuts. It will fix my tongue coating issue but won't bring much flavor.

French oak chips - Medium toast The flavor profile for french oak from this thread suggests it will add "cinnamon/allspice character, along with custard/ crème brûlée, milk chocolate"

American oak cubes - Medium toast. The main flavors listed on the last link are "campfire/roasted coffee." 

I'm leaning towards the french oak chips. According to the packaging I should use about .5oz for my 3 gal batch. Considering this is my first mead and I've never oaked a wine before I wanted to get some other opinions. 

Tyler


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## byathread (Jan 14, 2014)

Well, I've made many, many meads, but never a bochet so take this with a grain of salt perhaps, but I'd go with French or Hungarian oak. I think oak adds a lot to meads and wine. But, what I'd probably actually do (and did many times in my early days of meading) would be to split the batch into 3 x 1 gal carboys and have your control batch, a batch with your tannin, and a batch with oak. I'd stick with oak cubes, and I'd start sampling every week after 1 month and rack off them when you've got slightly too much oak as it'll mellow a bit. After they're bottled and aged, do a blind tasting and chalk it up to education. Or do some bench testing while still bulk aging and blend before bottling.

PS - Don't have 3 x 1 gal carboys? Go buy 3 good 1 gal (glass) bottles of apple juice and fill that 3 gal carboy with a batch of cider (or cyser)!

Cheers!


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## Deezil (Jan 14, 2014)

The only Bochet I've made so far is a Banana Bochet, but I would definitely go the French oak route first.. If you soak those chips for what they're worth, and you're still not happy, maybe then consider an tannin addition.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jan 14, 2014)

And go ahead and add some of the first tanin powder that you liked before you add your chips. I think also your Bochet was a pretty bold move for a first mead, your mouthfeel may also benefit from adding back some raw honey. What level of burning did you take your honey to? Mahoghany or tar black? WVMJ


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## EelfinnTy (Jan 14, 2014)

byathread I like the way you think, but I'm not sure I have the space at the moment. How much oak do you typically add to your meads?

Deezil thanks for your suggestion. 

WVMJ I didn't have any varietal honey and wanted something more interesting than alcoholic honey. It's a beautiful red brown so probably closer to mahogany.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jan 15, 2014)

Regular meads are not just alcoholic honey, not even close if made right, made to strong and out of balance you could say that about any wine. Also for this batch it seems some time may need to be spent in a carboy, its a bit young to be judging the final tastes. Good luck, WVMJ



EelfinnTy said:


> byathread I like the way you think, but I'm not sure I have the space at the moment. How much oak do you typically add to your meads?
> 
> Deezil thanks for your suggestion.
> 
> WVMJ I didn't have any varietal honey and wanted something more interesting than alcoholic honey. It's a beautiful red brown so probably closer to mahogany.


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## seth8530 (Jan 15, 2014)

I have a 14 month of cranberry mead and I found that it improved quite a bit over the period of time where I added a French oak stave to it. I plan on putting her into the bottle this weekend if the taste is where I want it. I would recommend using staves or spirals over chips and cubes, but use cubes if spirals/staves are not available.


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## byathread (Jan 15, 2014)

EelfinnTy said:


> How much oak do you typically add to your meads?



For 3 gal I'd start with 1-1.5 oz of cubes. Start tasting after 4 weeks or so. Frequent tasting is key. When the oak is to your liking rack off the cubes and throw them on the BBQ (or save them in the freezer) for smoking some meat.

Cheers.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jan 16, 2014)

Seth they all work good if you use them right, even powder or a stave broken into a couple of pieces to expose the innards faster. We toss our used wood into a box and let it dry good to store for smokin season, if I put it in the freeze it would be burried under berries and never be seen again! WVMJ



seth8530 said:


> I have a 14 month of cranberry mead and I found that it improved quite a bit over the period of time where I added a French oak stave to it. I plan on putting her into the bottle this weekend if the taste is where I want it. I would recommend using staves or spirals over chips and cubes, but use cubes if spirals/staves are not available.


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## seth8530 (Jan 16, 2014)

WVMountaineerJack said:


> Seth they all work good if you use them right, even powder or a stave broken into a couple of pieces to expose the innards faster. We toss our used wood into a box and let it dry good to store for smokin season, if I put it in the freeze it would be burried under berries and never be seen again! WVMJ



You bring up a good point, each type of oak has its place and purpose, IE oak dust and chips for primary fermentation of grape wines ( maybe more than grape wines) and the staves and spirals and such for prolonged aging.. 

I guess even the chips could be used in secondary if you are not after too many vanillins right?

I hear you on making smoked food with old wine wood!


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jan 16, 2014)

Dude, dont limit yourself thinking of terms like grape wine! Its all wine we are talking about, grapes are just another fruit. A few chips in a strawberry secondary really pushes it over the top. Toasted oak in a cyser. Even a big cupful of oak powder in niagra is good.  WVMJ


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## EelfinnTy (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for all your suggestions. I think I'll backsweeten it just a bit and try a little oak in my jar of extra to get a feel for what it will add. When I cooked it up I planned on bulk aging for a year.


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## seth8530 (Jan 16, 2014)

Good point, I was thinking of using oak chips or powder to reduce vegitativeness in grape wine during primary.


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