# First batch of plum wine



## MasterBlaster (Jun 25, 2011)

Hello folks, I am a bit overloaded with information and I am hoping to get some advice. I feel that my questions are the same questions everyone asks, and I did do a search first. I have read and read here and on the net, and I just keep answering my questions with more questions. I'm familiar with the saying "Ask 10 wine makers the same question and get 12 different answers." With that said, I still have questions because I lack the experience to decide which of those 12 answers are correct. So, I'm sorry for asking the same typical questions you probably see all the time, but I'm doing my best!

So, here is where I am. I am starting two batches of plum wine right now. We harvested about 75 pounds of plums off our tree this year and instead of giving them away, we decided to try our hand at wine making. The problem is that we came up with the idea right at harvest time, so we didn't get to prepare a whole lot before we had to begin. I got equipment to make two 5 gallon batches. I followed a recipe out of a book purchased at the brew shop. 

20 lbs plums
30 pints water
10 lbs sugar
2.5 tsp Acid Blend (guy at brew shop didn't have acid blend, so he said citric acid would be ok to substitute. So, I used citric acid) 
2.5 tsp pectic enzyme
5 tsp yeast nutrient
5 campden crushed
1.5 package EC-1118 champagne yeast

Both batches are in the same plastic fermenter that has a lid which doesn't exactly lock in place, but it does have an airlock in place. Right now I have the buckets in the dining room which stays about 80 degrees all day. I wanted them easily accessible while I have to stir and watch the process. I plan move them to the basement when they go into the secondaries, since they don't need to be babied as much at that point in the process.

I started the first batch on June 20, and the second batch the next day. I did a couple things differently between the two batches. First, we cut and de-stoned all the plums the day before batch #1 went into the primary and left them in the fridge overnight. It was too much work and we were too tired to finish the job after all the cutting was done. The other thing I did differently on batch #1 is that I added the yeast nutrient a day after mixing all ingredients into primary, just before the yeast was pitched. I'd have put the nutrient in on day 1, but the guy at brew shop said we probably didn't even need it. We decided to go back and get it because all the recipes we found used it. Anyway, moving on.....

So, it's been 5 days since we started the process on batch #1. An initial SG reading was 1.090. Today, it reads 1.020. I have read a cople recipes that say to siphon into a secondary once the SG reading is between 1.020 and 1.030. Then, I find a recipe on Jack Eitelgeorge's site that says to ferment in the primary for 6-12 days, or even longer to gain more color from the skins. My first question is about when to siphon into secondary. Should I be paying more attention to the SG reading? Or should I be looking at the color? 

My second question is about the foaming I see. Batch #1 is not nearly as foamy as it was the first couple days. Batch #2 is just one day behind batch #1, but it has been much more foamy than #1 for several days. I understand there are so many variables with the fruit, yeast, temperature, etc; but is there any reason to be concerned that the first batch stopped foaming quickly? 

Thanks for taking the time to help a beginner, I am really looking forward to being part of the group here!


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## Minnesotamaker (Jun 26, 2011)

Question 1 could be hard to answer. I think you're wondering about flavor/color extraction from the skins. A lot of your decision will be based on your plums. Some plums have VERY tart skins, others not so much. The flesh of plums also vary considerably. I suggest making your best guess with your plums and take good notes. Then on future batches you can alter your methods to achieve your desired results. Since you have two batches going, you could do each a little differently and see which you like better. Perfection will come with experience.

Question 2. I find that some batches foam, some don't. The ingredients, yeast, and temp will all have an effect on foam. Some batches will ferment vigorously and and not create foam at all because the bubbles burst at the surface.


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## Julie (Jun 26, 2011)

First rule of thumb is always use at least 5# of fruit per gallon for wine. Also, remember fruits that are mild in flavor should have little or no water added such as pears. I am not a big plum eater so I am not sure how strong of flavor they are. 

I won't be concerned about the one wine foaming faster or more than another. Each bucket does it's own thing at it's own pace. 

Never leave a wine in a bucket based on days, always  use your hydrometer. Some ferment to dry and others rack to a carboy once their wine is around 1.010. This seems to be more personal choice because both methods work.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 26, 2011)

Julie said:


> First rule of thumb is always use at least 5# of fruit per gallon for wine. Also, remember fruits that are mild in flavor should have little or no water added such as pears. I am not a big plum eater so I am not sure how strong of flavor they are.
> 
> I won't be concerned about the one wine foaming faster or more than another. Each bucket does it's own thing at it's own pace.
> 
> Never leave a wine in a bucket based on days, always  use your hydrometer. Some ferment to dry and others rack to a carboy once their wine is around 1.010. This seems to be more personal choice because both methods work.



Well, it's too late to use more plums! But I will gladly try with more fruit next time. 

As for the timing on moving to secondary, what exactly would be considered fermenting to dry? I would like this wine to be on the dry side, I think. I can always sweeten it if I have to, right? So, what would be a good SG reading to move to secondary if I want it dry?


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## Angie (Jun 26, 2011)

I have a carboy of plum wine that has been sitting for the last year. I only used about 20lbs of plums and that was waaaayyy not enough. It is quite bland tasting - I've tried sweetening it abit but that didn't even help. I have a big jug of prune nectar that I plan on concentrating down to try and add some more flavour.

When your wine is at about 1.01 you should be able to rack off of the sediment and let it ferment down to .990. I have a couple of different recipes and one says that plum wine should be consumed within 6 months and the other says it takes about a year before it is ready. This is my first batch of plum so hopefully some others that have made it several times will add some thoughts.


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## Julie (Jun 26, 2011)

Angie,
Leave is age for a year. Any mild wine needs a year before the flavor really comes out.

MasterBlaster, my preference it to let it ferment down between 1.000 and 1.010 and rack into seconday. When people ferment to dry they let it ferment down to 1.000, snap down the lid and put an airlock on, then let it ferment to roughly around .996 - .992. For added flavor do an f-pac, this will add more flavor to your wine.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies here, this is getting really interesting and stressful at the same time! 

I do have to present another issue. I was following the recipe in this book, but I got so wrapped up in other recipes that I forgot what I was doing. The book recipe says to siphon off sediment in primary at SG 1.040, which I have far passed. Then, it says to rack again at 1.000. 

My two batches are at 1.010 and 1.020. I don't really understand what the difference is going to be by leaving it in primary longer if I am fermenting to 1.000 in the secondary anyway. And I guess I can go as low as Angie mentions, .990. But is there an advantage in leaving it in primary longer? Is it mostly about the color? I am considering going to glass now considering that I have far passed the recommendations of the recipe I used.


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## Angie (Jun 26, 2011)

You usually rack, or rather remove the fruit pulp before it reaches the dry stage. I have never left any fruit in longer then around 1.03 - 1.04....the skins and seeds can impart some off flavours on occasion. If you still have the fruit in then remove it. I have always left my wine in the primary (after the fruit is removed) till it is about 1.00 and then rack off of any dead yeast into the secondary, let it ferment to dry (.990 or lower), and then add my clearing agents and degas. I personally leave it sit for a couple of months and then decide if it needs to be back- sweetened or 'tweaked'. 

As I said before my plum needs to be tweaked as it is bland and even letting it age for a year has not improved it. 20 lbs of plums is just not enough flavour for me - I was expecting a good plum taste with a bit of a kick.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 26, 2011)

Ok, then I'm taking out the pulp now and will leave it in a primary a little longer until it gets closer to 1.000. I have two batches so it will be interesting to see if the first batch has some bad taste from leaving it in too long. 

This may be a dumb question........ Should I just scoop off the top? Or should I be trying to scoop off the bottom too? I see a lot said about lees, and that we don't want it on the lees too long. So, should I be concerned now, or is that more about after it goes to the secondary?


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## 1ChuckGauthier (Jun 27, 2011)

I have a batch of yellow plum finishing right now. I used at least 6 pounds of pitted plums per gal. I let it get down to 1.010 or 1.020, and remove the must. My primary will seal so at this point I put in an air lock and let it finish to dry and it stays there until it clears. since I have 5 gal secondary's I usually make a 6 gal batch so that when I rack off the lee's I have a full 5 gal clear or nearly so and still have some more identical wine to top off with when I rack again......shhh also some extra to taste in the dry form. This last batch I used 2 one gal bags of plums saved for the occasion and made an F Pak...added 6 cups sugar to back sweeten, came out at 1020. I'm happy with this batch, first thing you taste is plum then an alcohol finish. This batch was set up for 14 percent for my son in law, but my next batch is going to be around 11 percent. The wine you make yourself tastes a lot better than the stuff you can buy in the store.

As far as scooping things out of the wine, forget it. buy a siphon and hose and siphon off the lee's...when the wine is done the stuff on top will fall to the bottom.
Before I forget it again, freeze your fruit before starting your wine, makes lots of juice and breaks down the fruit.


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## mmadmikes1 (Jun 27, 2011)

As long as the wine is still not stabalized you can still add fruit


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 27, 2011)

1ChuckGauthier said:


> I have a batch of yellow plum finishing right now. I used at least 6 pounds of pitted plums per gal. I let it get down to 1.010 or 1.020, and remove the must. My primary will seal so at this point I put in an air lock and let it finish to dry and it stays there until it clears. since I have 5 gal secondary's I usually make a 6 gal batch so that when I rack off the lee's I have a full 5 gal clear or nearly so and still have some more identical wine to top off with when I rack again......shhh also some extra to taste in the dry form. This last batch I used 2 one gal bags of plums saved for the occasion and made an F Pak...added 6 cups sugar to back sweeten, came out at 1020. I'm happy with this batch, first thing you taste is plum then an alcohol finish. This batch was set up for 14 percent for my son in law, but my next batch is going to be around 11 percent. The wine you make yourself tastes a lot better than the stuff you can buy in the store.
> 
> As far as scooping things out of the wine, forget it. buy a siphon and hose and siphon off the lee's...when the wine is done the stuff on top will fall to the bottom.
> Before I forget it again, freeze your fruit before starting your wine, makes lots of juice and breaks down the fruit.



I did do some reading about freezing, but some people said it can make the fruit brown and mushy, so I was scared to do that this time. Regarding the scooping, I already have a racking cane and siphon tub ready to go, just didn't know if I was trying to get as much pulp out as possible or just going fir what's on top. I scooped and strained the top. 

Also, my recipe is more than 5 gallons. After straining the must, I still have 6 gallons. So, I don't know how much I will lose when transferring to secondary, but there is some extra depending on how much lees is on the bottom. If I have lots of extra in the bucket, should I save some of the leftovers to use for topping later so I don't have to use water? I don't know what I would keep it in, though. Would I need a perfectly sized bottle that will take an airlock with little headspace? Or could I just put it in a plastic 1 gallon water jug? 




mmadmikes1 said:


> As long as the wine is still not stabalized you can still add fruit



I did add the campden that the recipe called for in the recipe, but it's still in primary, so I haven't stabilized it. I can't imagine it will taste good now anyway, but should I taste a bit of what I've got to see if it tastes too bland and add more fruit if necessary? I have at least 15 pounds of plums left that I could add in, but I don't know how that will go with the process.


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## 1ChuckGauthier (Jun 27, 2011)

I use 1 gal jugs (glass) avail at your supply store, with airlocks. Holds well and I am able to top off 5 gal secondary as needed. This wine is fun to play with, taste etc while the big batch is ageing and degassing. When the wine clears I rack and add metabisulfate and sorbate, after about a week I make an F Pak if I have the fruit and backsweeten to my taste. Rubber bungs for the air locks are avail in many sizes, including 1 gal, and for a 750ml bottle.


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## Sirs (Jun 27, 2011)

well I've made plum and I always leave my pulp in for up to 14 days if it goes dry all the better once it goes dry I rack off the pulp(I never leave the stones in my must They are removed before fermentation starts) and yes if needed you can add more fruit at any time just need to be careful how much sugar you add don't wanna get your ABV to high in mid ferment might stall. As far as freezing it doesn't hurt anything. I normally add about a quart to 1/2 a gallon of water if that much to 4 gallon of crushed fruit (added sugar makes it go to about a gallon of liquid)


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 27, 2011)

So far the wine has good color and fruity smell. I can put up a picture later, because I don't have anything to compare to, it's my first go at this. My two batches are at 1.002 and 1.012 right now. The recipe calls for them to have gone into secondary already and racked once they go dry. Here's what I want to know..... What would the difference be between letting it go dry in the primary vs. in the secondary? Other than the risk of the lees messing up the flavor or taste, is there an advantage to one over the other? Fermentation is faster in the primary, isn't it? Is that part of the reason to leave it there longer? 

Also, I shouldn't me stirring it anymore now that the pulp is out, right? I want to keep it still from this pint in, correct?

I will go to the brew shop and get some smaller bottles or carboys so we can save the leftovers for topping off. I have 6 gallons now, so hopefully there will be enough to save without getting too deep into the yuck.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 28, 2011)

Here's my current state.







Looking at the sediment in the bottom of my fermenters, is that all going to be waste in the bottom? If I were to only siphon off what's above that real cloudy line in the bottom, I am only left with about 4 gallons if I'm lucky with the batch on the left. The one on the right is a little better. I am getting myself ready to go to secondary, and just wondering if this is normal and what to expect. I'm also still wondering about the questions in the last post!


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## Runningwolf (Jun 28, 2011)

MB siphon off everything you can with out the sediment. Then transfer the sediment to some gallon or 1/2 gallon jugs. Once again things will settle out and you'll be able to recoup a lot more wine. If you have to repeat the process again then do so.


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## Mike93YJ (Jun 28, 2011)

MasterBlaster said:


> Here's what I want to know..... What would the difference be between letting it go dry in the primary vs. in the secondary? Other than the risk of the lees messing up the flavor or taste, is there an advantage to one over the other? Fermentation is faster in the primary, isn't it? Is that part of the reason to leave it there longer?



I'm not too sure about this, we leave it in primary until it ferments out. I've been thinking of trying the schedule TonyT mentioned


tonyt said:


> Many of us use some variation or modification of Tim V's 5-20-40-90 schedule.







MasterBlaster said:


> Also, I shouldn't me stirring it anymore now that the pulp is out, right? I want to keep it still from this pint in, correct?



We stir daily while it's in the primary, stopping the stirring a day before racking into secondary. This gives it time to settle.



MasterBlaster said:


> I will go to the brew shop and get some smaller bottles or carboys so we can save the leftovers for topping off. I have 6 gallons now, so hopefully there will be enough to save without getting too deep into the yuck.



Runningwolf is right on. Siphon/ pour the lees into a tall skinny container and let it settle for a day or however long it takes. You can get quite a bit of wine back from the lees. Use it for topping off, tasting, experimenting with, etc


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies here folks, it's been really helpful. 

I'll look at the schedule you mentioned, never heard of it.

I didn't stir yesterday because I thought I needed to move to secondary today and I wanted it to settle as much as possible. I guess I could have stirred after all, it would have had enough time, I guess. Batch #1 is just hovering around 1.003. It's starting to have a slightly funky smell. This could be due to one of a few things:

1.) I just don't know what it's supposed to smell like and this is actually normal.
2.) Something is starting to go bad.
3.) I am imagining that it smells funny because I know I left 20 pounds of fruit in a bucket for a week and it just seems like it ought to smell bad! LOL

I'm not too concerned, yet.

Since it's right around 1.000 now, I've gone ahead and cleaned the carboy to get it ready to move. It's gotta dry out for a bit and I need to go get some more bottle for the lees. Good idea to use narrow bottles to get more out of it, I'll see what they have at the brew shop.


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## Sirs (Jun 28, 2011)

just to let you know sometimes a taste of the wine will tell alot some wines will taste awesome at first racking while others will taste like it should be thrown out. Taste will tell you alot of things, more than smell will. Give it a try taste a bit when you transfer it over if nothnig else you can wait till you have some settle in your sediment bottles to give it a try. DON'T think it's bad if it doesn't taste good first time just let us know what you got and what it taste like to you it's all a part of learning. lol


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 29, 2011)

Ok, here's the update. I tasted the wine. Well, I tasted one batch. Results? I thought it tasted........wonderful. It definitely has a plum flavor, and it definitely is an adult beverage.  That was exciting. Here's the disappointment. I didn't have enough wine to fill my carboys, so there is a lot of headspace. Looking at the sediment I siphoned out, I don't think I will have enough to fill one of the batches, even after it settles more. I'm including the photos so y'all can see. I don't really want to fill it with water and dilute my precious wine. Is it okay to leave like this? I know at next racking I will loose even more, so maybe I should go get some 3 gallon carboys and use that instead? Both batches are fermented to around 1.000.


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## Arne (Jun 29, 2011)

I have never tried it, but others have. Get ya some marbles, sanitize em, and put enough in to take up the excess space. Arne.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 29, 2011)

I thought I read about someone using ball bearings before, but it must have been marbles. Good idea! Easier and cheaper than running across town to buy smaller carboys.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 15, 2011)

Just wanted to post an update. It's been almost a month since we started this project and I just racked the wine. Both batches are looking pretty clear. We sampled both today during racking. One batch is a little more dry, but they both taste good, I think. They are still a little fizzy tasting, is that to be expected? They aren't still bubbling, but they seem gassy. There is definitely a strong flavor, it doesn't seem weak in flavor at all. It's not instantly recognizable as a plum flavor, but it tastes good.


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## james3838 (Jul 15, 2011)

MB, as long as it taste good to you, that's all that matters and it sounds as though your happy with it. The wine is extremely young yet and it will fizzle for a little while. Some of the more experienced folks on here can help you deal with that. I have one question though...did you put your fruit in a straining bag when you started? It looks to me like you just dropped it in the primary, which is fine but the straining bag would have helped you reduce the amount of pulp and sediment. I'm asking because I have never seen that much sediment in a batch when I used straining bags.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 15, 2011)

With the first batch, I put the fruit in nylon pantyhose. I started the next batch the following day and had purchased a mesh bag from the brew store. When I was sanitizing the mesh bag, I kept seeing little bits floating in the solution. So, I washed the bag several times and every time I changed the solution but there was still stuff floating in the solution. It was like little bits of nylon that were coming off the bag and it wouldn't stop no matter how much I washed it. At that point, I was concerned the pantyhose also had little bits coming off them so I opened up the first batch out of the hose and let all the fruit go straight into the primary. I was also concerned that the fruit didn't have enough room to breathe in the bags. It was 20 pounds of fruit and it seemed like it was just packed in too tight. I had seen a lot of folks put the fruit straight in and figured it was the simplest thing to do. Maybe I should have left the first batch in the hose and let the second batch go bare and I could have compared the two. Oh well, too late now, huh?


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## james3838 (Jul 15, 2011)

As long as it turns out good that's all that matters. I've found that it's just a little more work when you put the fruit straight into the primary and having to deal with all the pulp and sediment, but I understand why you did what you did. Good luck with it. I cored and chopped 25# of red plums last night and stuck 'em in the fridge to get a batch started this weekend. This will be my first batch of plum and I hope I can maintain the color that you have.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 5, 2012)

I have an update. After about a year, we did a taste test on both batches. First batch came out with a sort of rubbery taste. Did some poking around and found that it could be some sort of infection or it sat on the lees too long between racking. Either way, I have been told it's safe to drink, even if it doesn't taste all that great. The second batch tasted wonderful last time I tasted it this summer. Both are clear and I was letting them age a little more before sweetening and bottling. Well, this morning I brought in a 1gal jug of each batch to do some testing with. I noticed that the airlocks are bone dry! Ran downstairs, my big carboys ave dry airlocks in them too! I don't know how long they've been dry, but it's been months since I last tended to them. I can't believe I forgot to check on them. So, now I am wondering if the wine is even safe to drink now that it's been open to the elements for an unknown period of time. What shall I do with it?


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## Dend78 (Nov 5, 2012)

first smell it, how does it smell? second take a taste, you will see some discoloration as well from oxidization and you may have a different flavor now


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 5, 2012)

I took a whiff. Neither batch smells foul. I would say they both smell as they did before. One might smell a little less like alcohol and a little sweeter than I remember, but nothing smells bad. So, it's safe to taste it?


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 6, 2012)

Had some British friends over tonight to celebrate Guy Fawkes Day. We drank about 2 liters of the wine and everyone thought it tasted great. I mixed in a little bit of apple juice to sweeten it just a little because it is very dry. I used about 5 parts wine, 1 part apple juice. It was perfect. It tasted good, and worked as it should! So, I'd say it was a success!


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## james3838 (Nov 6, 2012)

Good Deal! 
Sounds like you have a pretty good start at wine making. You'll learn a lot as you go and the folks on here can help you with about any issues or questions that you may have.


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## Dend78 (Nov 7, 2012)

awesome! glad to hear it


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