# Bottle cleaning question



## zack67360 (Mar 22, 2011)

Will be bottling 15 gallons of fruit wine that has been bulk aging for 4 monthes now. I purchased 75 new bottles and have a few questions. I have read in posts that some people use the dishwasher to clean thier bottles prior to bottling. My dishwasher has an anit-bacterial wash button, a hi temp wash button, or just a sanitization rinse button. I have campden tablets, but not sure how many to use in the dishwasher. Since the bottles are new, I would imagine the sani-rinse would be enough with the campden tablets. So guess my questions are:
1. How many tablets to use in the washer.
2. How far ahead can I sanitize the bottles before bottling the wine.
3. Should I add more campden tablets to the wine right before bottling? I added campden tablets about 2 monthes ago. Also, will the campden tablets cause the bottles to pressure up?
Thanks for your time.
zack


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## chachi44089 (Mar 22, 2011)

I would only use the dishwasher as a pre-wash. I would not put campden "k-meta" in a dishwasher because it is pretty corrosive in higher "sanitizing" concentrations, being that it is a type of salt. It would collect on the heating coil and corrode the impeller. 
Just get a good sanitizer, like potassium metabisulfite "powdered", sparklebrite, or one of the other no-rinse sanitizers. I run new bottles through the dishwasher with regular dish detergent as a pre-wash, then I submerge them in a bucket of sanitizer for a few minutes and let them drip dry. Adding more bottles to the bucket as I go. I use my primary for sanitizing. A bottle washer thing and drying tree is best system I think. I just havnt bought one yet. 
#1..none, not a good idea
#2..Sanitize right before bottling, to prevent unknown contamination.
#3..Add campden about every 3-4 months during bulk ageing. If its been two months sinse last addition and you are bottleing today, you should be fine. And, no capden will not cause pressure to build.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 22, 2011)

If you bought brand new bottles I would not be washing them in the dishwasher. Matter of fact I don't even wash them I just sanitize them with this.


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## chachi44089 (Mar 22, 2011)

Yea, what runningwolf said..I gotta get me one of those..


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## Flem (Mar 22, 2011)

I would rinse out new bottles with B-Brite, Oxyclean, etc., and then sanitize them like Dan said.


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## zack67360 (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the answers. Yes, I definetly need to get me a bottle washer/rinser like that. But for now, I will not use the dishwasher, but my primary buckets. I have a no rinse 'O2 Power Cleanse' which I have believe is oxy-clean. Funny thing, the bag doesn't give the chemical compound inside the bag???? I thought that was a law??? Anyway, will use the O2 no rinse for the initial rinsing, then dip the bottles in a solution of water and campden tablets, just to make sure. That should have me fixed up so no surprises down the road when I pop a cork 
zack


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## ibglowin (Mar 22, 2011)

I rinse out my new 375ml splits with warm water (2X) and then hit them with the Vinator. They should be clean and good to go right out of the box but it never hurts to do a quick rinse.


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## KeithTheSnake (Mar 22, 2011)

Uh, I hate to do this. I think you'll need more than 75 bottles for 15 gallons. But, you be the judge.

I've never owned a new bottle. All of my bottles are at least once-used. 

I usually wash with bottle brush and dish soap, rinse, and then use a no-rinse sanitizer like One Step. Then, I bottle right away. I use the same sanitizer for my corks.


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## Dufresne11 (Mar 22, 2011)

I get about 24 - 25 750 ml bottles out of 6 gallons. So you should be okay unless your using the little bottles. 

I use Starsan and my vinator. Look up Starsan and I think you will be happy. It is the easiest sanitizer I know of.


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## zack67360 (Mar 22, 2011)

Yes, the 750ml bottles. Will do a 5 gallon carboy and see how many it takes. I also have a few used bottles lying around I can scavange if I need to. OR, may have to just drink what's left over


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## Javila (Mar 22, 2011)

Let me put my 2 cents....I believe u can use the dishwasher if it has a sanitize option however just make sure it doesn't use any of the "rinse aid" during the this cycle. I do have a sani-rinse cycle but I instead just use dishwasher to clean the bottles by themselves, then spray some fresh sanitizer then let them airdry in the dishwasher rack just before bottling. Hope this helps. Njoy the bottling !!


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## REDBOATNY (Mar 22, 2011)

I also use the dishwasher most of the time for beer and wine bottles. Now and then I'll sanitize in a bucket and dry on a bottle rack when I can't get in the kitchen. 

Sanitized is sanitized, there is more than one way to do it. I noticed residue dried on the bottles from one-step and haven't used it since. Really don't want white powder in my beverage.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 22, 2011)

Just to clear up the bottle count. You should get (5) 750ml bottles per gallon.


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## smyrnaquince (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm finding it hard to believe that enough water will make it up through the opening of a wine bottle to thoroughly wash one in the dishwasher. Dishwashers seem to depend on throwing a lot of water every which-way to get the dishes clean. At best, for an already-clean bottle I would think that a little water might make it inside and rinse the bottle a bit.

This is all just my opinion. I haven't actuall tried washing bottles in a dishwasher.


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## chachi44089 (Mar 23, 2011)

smyrnaquince said:


> I'm finding it hard to believe that enough water will make it up through the opening of a wine bottle to thoroughly wash one in the dishwasher. Dishwashers seem to depend on throwing a lot of water every which-way to get the dishes clean. At best, for an already-clean bottle I would think that a little water might make it inside and rinse the bottle a bit.
> 
> This is all just my opinion. I haven't actuall tried washing bottles in a dishwasher.



Thats how I feel..I have used the dishwasher as a pre-wash, but was not convinced the bottles on the outside edge of the rack got much water blasted into them. I washed some used Carlo Rossi bottles that were dusty, the ones in the middle looked clean and the outer ones still were a bit dusty inside.


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## djrockinsteve (Mar 23, 2011)

All of my bottles are de-labeled and cleaned (bottle brushed). Then stored in a box until needed.

When I go to bottle I fill a 6 gallon bucket 2/3rds filled with very warm almost hot water and potassium metabisulfite. All bottles are immersed into the liquid, brushed again and allowed to soak a few minutes. 

Then removed and placed onto a bottle tree to drip off. I bottle while these bottles are still slightly moist.

I do not want risking any missed bacteria etc. that would ruin a good bottle of wine. Dish washing is okay (I Believe) to clean the outside but I doubt most d.w. would adequetely clean the insides completely. After all the work and time you put into this why risk it. Cleaning the way I do takes only a few minutes and is quick and efficient.

To each his own though.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 23, 2011)

smyrnaquince said:


> I'm finding it hard to believe that enough water will make it up through the opening of a wine bottle to thoroughly wash one in the dishwasher. Dishwashers seem to depend on throwing a lot of water every which-way to get the dishes clean. At best, for an already-clean bottle I would think that a little water might make it inside and rinse the bottle a bit.
> 
> This is all just my opinion. I haven't actuall tried washing bottles in a dishwasher.



+1 I agree with you also.


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## ibglowin (Mar 23, 2011)

The only dish washer I would trust to wash the inside of wine bottles would be that one the guy modified on another wine forum. He made a special lower rack with PVC pipe and every bottle had its own 6" PVC pipe that was all connected together and then routed into the main water line. The outside was hit by the rotating arm from above and the inside was blasted continuously from each PVC pipe. 

Perfectly engineered solution to the problem. All you need is an old dish washer to convert over permanently!


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## reefman (Mar 23, 2011)

djrockinsteve said:


> All of my bottles are de-labeled and cleaned (bottle brushed). Then stored in a box until needed.



Speaking of de-labeling, does anyone have a sure fire method for doing this? My experience is it's hit or miss, depending on what and how much adhesive the winery uses.


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## Javila (Mar 24, 2011)

reefman said:


> Speaking of de-labeling, does anyone have a sure fire method for doing this? My experience is it's hit or miss, depending on what and how much adhesive the winery uses.



Here is what works for me. No soaking involved. I get a straight razor handle like for scraping paint and scrap all labels off. (less of a soggy mess) It will leave very little sticky residue but the pieces of label is dry and just toss in trash. I then get wife's green scrub pad,wet it , sprinkle a little ajax , scrub with little effort and remaining residuel comes off with no problem. Rinse with warm/hot water. You can put in dishwasher just to wash any remainding residue if you wish. Then when ready to bottle use your preferred method to sanitize. Njoy !


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## REDBOATNY (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't put crudded up bottles in the dishwasher, only ones that have been cleaned when emptied. The sanitizing comes from the heat of the dishwasher
similar to an autoclave used by dentist,
I would not rely on the water to remove any dried on residue, but the residue in theory would be sterile if its in there.


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## Rodnboro (Jul 21, 2011)

I use only used bottles and wash out with Oxyclean and then sanitize with Star San. Easy and quick.


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## zack67360 (Aug 1, 2011)

Thank you for the responses. I did use the dishwasher once on the sanitization mode, MISTAKE!! It may have worked better if I'd run the dishwasher once with the other dishes in it, then emptied and run it with only the bottles in it. After running the dishwasher, I still rinsed the bottles in a solution of meta and then bottled my wine. What I discovered was in some of the bottles, there were small particles baked onto the side I am sure these particles are sterile and I have no problem drinking the wine myself, but when I give a bottle of the peach mead away, I must now inspect the bottle to make sure there are no particles inside. I now rinse the bottle after emptying, soak them in a soap solution and rinse once more before use, then dip them in a meta solution right before bottling new wine. 
Casey, I watched the youtube video of your clean bottle express, it looks like it works great for cleaning the bottles. How long does the pads last on one? 
zack


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## greyday (Oct 18, 2011)

Rather old thread, but since there is some solid advice here, thought I'd throw mine in:

I use bleach. A 4-5 capful/5gallon tub solution. I let the bottles soak for a couple hours, rinse, remove labels, dry in my bottle tree, then store in a box (covered) or in unused buckets with the lids on. Then just before bottling I rinse with star san solution (same solution the corks soak in) and back in the bottle tree.


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## ibglowin (Oct 18, 2011)

Bleach should never be used in or around anything in winemaking. See this Purdue University article on The Use of Bleach in Winemaking

There are so many other cleaners that are better and contain no chlorine.


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## zack67360 (Oct 19, 2011)

wow, thanks Mike for the link to that informative article. I have been using a strong bleach solution to rinse out my carboys and my initial soaking before storing the bottles. Course, before use I rinse again with a no rinse solution. I believe it might be the same stuff called oxyclean?
Thanks again.


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## ibglowin (Oct 19, 2011)

Many/most of us use Oxyclean (or a generic) on the bottles for the initial cleanup (if they are recycled) followed by a generous water rinse just to make sure no off flavors from the oxyclean solution. This will also help with the label removal.


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## 690ride (Oct 19, 2011)

Agree with the adhesive remover, but Oops works the best, rarely is a razor blade needed.


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## vacuumpumpman (Oct 19, 2011)

*pressure santizing*

I use this nice little setup - it uses my bottle washer with a shur-flow pump 
(around 45-60 psi ) and circulates the santizer while flushing the bottle out in a short amount of time.

steve


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## greyday (Oct 20, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> Bleach should never be used in or around anything in winemaking. See this Purdue University article on The Use of Bleach in Winemaking
> 
> There are so many other cleaners that are better and contain no chlorine.



I rinse thoroughly and use rubber corks, so I'm not overly concerned by that, but I appreciate the article. I do not use oxyclean because it doesn't rinse out thoroughly enough for me, I've had the film "issue" in the past, though it is definitely better for removing labels.

EDIT: I am just a beginner though; should I re-rinse my current bottles with oxy-clean? Or some dissolved campden perhaps? I always do star san before anything touches my wine, so that's going to be the final stage either way (I have a sprayer thingy that attaches to my bottle tree)..


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## Wade E (Oct 20, 2011)

No need to do anything more then what yo are doing if your bottles are clean as Star San is a better sanitizer anyway. Great idea Steve with the power washer!


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 11, 2014)

Steve!
I just posted pics of mine as well, check it out here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/my-all-one-bottle-washer-sanitizer-43619/#post490759
I highly recommend this unit!


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