# Wine Cellar Opinions Needed



## mrramsey

Greetings all! New to this forum. I am not a wine maker but I do love wine. I am currently wanting to build a cellar in my basement but need some input.

The way my house is built I have a 'cold' space under my front porch that I would like to convert into a cellar area however I do have a couple of obstacles to overcome as far as an entryway to the cellar.

The door into this area is short - 75" to be exact. I would like a door with a 'view'. I could probably build one and could certainly have one made. My friend drew up a sketch that just uses a gate instead of an actual door. I really like the way it looks but am concerned with temps. I don't keep fine wines and for the most part the the basement stays at ~68 degrees.

So I guess what I am asking for is should I use a gate or go with a door?

I've attached a couple of images of the concept.


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## mrramsey

I might as well add that the Cellar portion is lined with 2" of foam building insulation on the 3 walls and ceiling. The capacity is ~365 bottles.


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## jgmann67

I like this idea.. A LOT.

IMO: Optimal wine storage is a constantly cool, dark, dry place. Gradual changes in temp are okay, I suppose, with the other two remaining constant. I just wouldn't want to store wine above 70* myself.

If you put a glass door on that area, what do you suppose your temp/humidity would be?


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## ibglowin

68 is fine for everyday wines. If you start collecting $100 bottles then I would see about adding a sealed door and some additional cooling. If humidity is an issue you don't want to seal it unless you add a dehumidifier.


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## mrramsey

jgmann67 said:


> I like this idea.. A LOT.
> 
> IMO: Optimal wine storage is a constantly cool, dark, dry place. Gradual changes in temp are okay, I suppose, with the other two remaining constant. I just wouldn't want to store wine above 70* myself.
> 
> If you put a glass door on that area, what do you suppose your temp/humidity would be?



Right now with the current door closed it is 58 degrees. The conditioned space is about 68. I would estimate the humidity to be 45-50%


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## NorCal

I did some research and I am comfortable storing my wine that I will be consuming within 2-4 years, between 65-68 degrees. One of the things that I have found was not to subjecting wine to swings in temperature can be just as important as the temperature itself.


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## bkisel

Welcome to the forum!

If that space would stay cooler or with less temp fluctuations with a door than with a gate then I'd go with the door.


Update: Just saw your post #5. Door!


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## jgmann67

bkisel said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> If that space would stay cooler or with less temp fluctuations with a door than with a gate then I'd go with the door.
> 
> 
> Update: Just saw your post #5. Door!



I vote DOOR, as well. Glass door would be awesome. And, maybe get that treadmill out of there and turn it into a bar/tasting room.


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## Boatboy24

mrramsey said:


> Right now with the current door closed it is 58 degrees. The conditioned space is about 68. I would estimate the humidity to be 45-50%



That's darn near perfect with the door closed. Put the gate on, then get a good storm door on the outside so you can see the gate.


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## TXWineDuo

Hello from Texas where we do not have any basements. If I had a place to store ~365 bottles at 68 degrees I would do some more thinking on how to cool it down more to recommended wine storage temperatures Reds in low 50's and whites even lower. I don't know if anybody has a graph that shows the warmer the wine is stored the quicker you have to drink it. 
I would design it to store less bottles to be able to install a wine cellar cooler unit and more insulation to achieve a better environment for that many bottles. Now for the door what ever you do just make sure that it would have a similar R-value of the walls, double pane glass or what ever, I know a gate looks nice but I wouldn't do it. 
Read up on some custom cellars and how they keep from having the wine go bad.
http://www.wineenthusiast.com/custom-cellars/wine-cellar-cooling-units/ 

Just my 2cents at 68 degrees your wines could go bad in 3 or so years and at over 300 bottles and rotation you might have some go bad on you. Someone gave us 4 bottles that were $40+/bottle that was in his house at 75-78 degrees and all went down the sink, Oxidized bad!! 

TXWineDuo


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## mrramsey

I think I am leaning towards a door as well. I will likely have to just build a custom door. to fit the space. It certainly would lead to more stable temps. The r-value of the door itself will be somewhat negligible in this case due to the lack of direct exposure to heat. Different story if it were on the first floor of the house. 

I do have a 54 bottle cooler on the first floor in the wine bar  I am trying to do this project without the requirement of a cooling unit but with a door on it it certainly gives me options to add it later if it truly requires it.


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## Floandgary

So presuming that the insulated "cellar" is the wine storage (currently @58F) and the treadmill area is "basement" (going to be maintained @68F), I think it would be safe enough to go with a gate and maintain a more steady acceptable temp. When Winter is done and Summer rolls around what might the temp in that space get to??? Again the steady 68F of air conditioning might be a plus.. AND what if you happen to expand your inventory??


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## mrramsey

Floandgary said:


> So presuming that the insulated "cellar" is the wine storage (currently @58F) and the treadmill area is "basement" (going to be maintained @68F), I think it would be safe enough to go with a gate and maintain a more steady acceptable temp. When Winter is done and Summer rolls around what might the temp in that space get to??? Again the steady 68F of air conditioning might be a plus.. AND what if you happen to expand your inventory??



In that area of the basement I can't imagine it getting any warmer that 70 in the summer but if it is 70 in the basement I am fairly certain that the A/C would be on.


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## FTC Wines

Just my 2 cents about the 68* temperature for wine storage. My wine room in Florida is 68* year round. We have 600+ bottles stored there. Some are a 5 1/2 year Apple, and a slightly 
older Peach. Also have a few bottles of 6 yr old Amarone. None have oxidized or spoiled in anyway. The room is dark & temp is constant, humidity is 55-65%. Roy


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## 4score

I also store wine between 66-68 degrees and so far no problem with 3-year old wine.


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## mrramsey

OK I think I have a solution that should (just a guess) keep me in the 58-64 degree range year round. The size of my cellar space is about 190 CU Ft. The wall that is on the exterior I will Insulate with 4" of foam board insulation on the top 4' of the wall. There will be 4" of the same insulation on the two side walls as well as the ceiling. This will leave some 2.5' of exposed foundation wall on the exterior wall to allow the coolest ground temps to passively enter.

The interior wall to the actual basement is block as well but I will not insulate this. I am going to build a door that is a custom fit to the opening with a viewing window. This will be somewhat sealed but not perfect.

Interior lighting will be LED and I plan to add a small fan or two (like the little clip on type 6" fans) and run them on a timer like once an hour for 15 minutes to circulate the air for a more even temp.

As the space sits this morning the outside temp was 32 degrees the inside temp is 68 in the basement. The cellar temp is 57.

The walls and ceiling will be finished with 1/4" tongue and groove knotty pine paneling. The lighting will be simple LED puck lights like you would see under a cabinet or maybe even the LED strip lighting. I will add a temp and humidity sensor with a digital display on the exterior of the cellar.


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## Floandgary

Sounds like a plan! Temp variation should be minimal. Good luck..


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## mrramsey

Here is a conceptual sketch - appx 375 bottle capacity


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## mrramsey

and a plan view of the same...


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## JohnT

Opinion 1: if you are at a steady 68 degrees, then go with either a door OR a gate (whatever you prefer). I do not think it can matter too much either way (with respect to the longevity care of your wine). 

Opinion 2: ITS WAAAAAY TOO SMALL!!!! (don't take this to heart. I am one of those sick folks out there that feels no basement is large enough)


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## mrramsey

JohnT said:


> Opinion 1: if you are at a steady 68 degrees, then go with either a door OR a gate (whatever you prefer). I do not think it can matter too much either way (with respect to the longevity care of your wine).
> 
> Opinion 2: ITS WAAAAAY TOO SMALL!!!! (don't take this to heart. I am one of those sick folks out there that feels no basement is large enough)



LOL that space actually runs about 28' in length but it would be awkward that big. I may extend it to 10' though.


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## mrramsey

*Final Design*

Well I think I have a final design. I decided that the cellar under the porch was just going to be too cramped. I have come up with a new design and it is still 360 bottles. 

Here we go... Thoughts?

Specs:
32.5 SQFT
~215 CUFT
2x6 walls
R-19 Insulation walls and ceiling
CellarPro 1800QT Cooling Unit


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## JohnT

I would put racks also on the blank wall on either side of the door as well.


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## Johnd

I really like the fact that the cellar comes with a sommelier!!!


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## mrramsey

Johnd said:


> I really like the fact that the cellar comes with a sommelier!!!



Yeah... my wife has a difficult time trying to understand 2d drawings so I have to do it in 3D. Working on adding the entire basement now.


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## ibglowin

Now your talking! LOL



mrramsey said:


> Working on adding the entire basement now.


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## chefken

I love your ideas. Last year I built a 4x8 wine cooler. At the time my wife said why are you making it so small. She is very wise. It's pretty full.


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## JimmyT

chefken said:


> I love your ideas. Last year I built a 4x8 wine cooler. At the time my wife said why are you making it so small. She is very wise. It's pretty full.




Man you dropped the ball! You should have asked her how big she would go and built that. That way if it's ever to big it's her fault lol!


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## mrramsey

Updates: I think I have settled on this for the final design. It's kind of turned into a complete remodel. I will begin destruction next weekend. Once I get the existing areas opened up I will start the wire fishing for a couple of new circuits back into the panel.


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## Floandgary

So as you will soon discover,, That space will become entirely too small. Solution,,,,, reserve it for your "SELECT" samples! Or only a limited amount of your creations destined for greatness!!! The rest will be consumed or spend little time in there anyway 
BTW,, is that enclosure (last dwg. at the bottom) the under porch area you were considering?? Insulate overhead and a basic door should keep temp steady enough for the daily stock..


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## mrramsey

Floandgary said:


> So as you will soon discover,, That space will become entirely too small. Solution,,,,, reserve it for your "SELECT" samples! Or only a limited amount of your creations destined for greatness!!! The rest will be consumed or spend little time in there anyway
> BTW,, is that enclosure (last dwg. at the bottom) the under porch area you were considering?? Insulate overhead and a basic door should keep temp steady enough for the daily stock..



Yeah it was but it is just too narrow for what I will call a "Finished Cellar". I can certainly use it for overflow. I don't make wine so I don't really require that much space. Being a finish carpenter by trade a lot of this is to have something to do.


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## sour_grapes

And I love the Sketchup drawings, too!


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## Floandgary

AHHHH!! the "BIG PICTURE" (anyone remember that one??).. Your plan looks perfect and may even prove to be inspirational!!


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## TXWineDuo

Did you see NorCal's coolbox?http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45816

I do not know what I am talking about not my specialty but watch out using fiberglass insulation and plastic cover, it can mold up. You might consider using rigid foam or spray foam. 
After reading online about the mold that can happen, I am ripping out all of my fiber glass insulation and starting over. Just my .02c

more info: http://storeitcold.com/coolerconstruction.html


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## mrramsey

Every application is going to be different for sure. His box is in a garage which I could see as problematic with condensation and fiberglass. Mine will be constructed in conditioned space where the ~10° different. That being said I do plan to use rigid foam to the interior along with foam insulation as the moisture barrier. The floor will be sealed with drylok then covered with 6mil plastic topped by the wood floor. The walls will be drywall sealed with a gloss finish the corners will be caulked as I set the sheets in place. The key is sealing air tight.

I would use spray foam if it was cheap enough.


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## kevinlfifer

I got these doors for $90 a slab at Menards (Home Depot has them as well). There is plenty of room to shave off 5 inches. Is your rack done? Double deep at the ends of the closet might give you more capacity. My closet is 2' x 10' and holds 504 bottles with a 74" high rack. Where in OH are you located? http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46912&page=2


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## mrramsey

kevinlfifer said:


> I got these doors for $90 a slab at Menards (Home Depot has them as well). There is plenty of room to shave off 5 inches. Is your rack done? Double deep at the ends of the closet might give you more capacity. My closet is 2' x 10' and holds 504 bottles with a 74" high rack. Where in OH are you located? http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46912&page=2



Hey that's a nice use of the space. If the space under my porch had a larger opening I would consider going that route. The problem for me was making it look like something nice. You did a nice job with the 2x10 space, that large opening is what make it work.

I am between Akron and Cleveland.


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## mrramsey

*Demolition has begun!!*

I have cleared out the room and have begun the process of surgically deconstructing the existing space. I have designed and redesigned many times in cad and sketchup.


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## limulus

That is going to be nice. Now I have to keep repeating: I will not remodel my basement. I will not remodel my basement. I will not....


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## mrramsey

Dropped the gate design a while back. Sticking with the current design and a cellarpro 1800 cooling unit. Rather "do it right" once than have to possibly go back and make changes later.


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## mrramsey

Spent the morning packing lumber, insulation and drywall into the basement. Construction has finally begun. will post some progress pics this week / weekend.


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## mrramsey

*Progress*

Progress has been made. I have been taking photos as I go and have far too many to post here. 


I have them on my website


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## sdelli

I see no plastic up!


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## mrramsey

sdelli said:


> I see no plastic up!



Yes it's there.


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## sour_grapes

Lookin' good, Mike!

That's the greenest greenboard I have ever seen! Was it for St. Patty's Day?


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## mrramsey

sour_grapes said:


> Lookin' good, Mike!
> 
> That's the greenest greenboard I have ever seen! Was it for St. Patty's Day?



good one Paul LOL! I always use green board for my basement projects.


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## sour_grapes

mrramsey said:


> good one Paul LOL! I always use green board for my basement projects.



Sure, me too, but my greenboard is like a light pastel green. Yours is GREEN!


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## TexasWino

Very cool! loving the DIY project!


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## mrramsey

Things are moving along now. The drywall is all hung and the first coat of joint compound has been applied.


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## mrramsey

Made some real progress today. SNded drywall, sprayed the knockdown finish, wired the circuits in the panel and set the door.


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## sour_grapes

Looking good!


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## jgmann67

How many bottles will that hold?


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## mrramsey

jgmann67 said:


> How many bottles will that hold?



The individual bottle racking will be about 350. There is space on the floor left and right of the door for cases or racks if I want. I also have a 54 bottle cooling unit in my wine bar off the kitchen. 

That's more than enough for me. I could have done double deep racks. I could have also made the side racks taller but constraints with cooling units and aesthetics took priority.


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## sdelli

You also need to make sure you leave room for carboys and barrels


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## sdelli

Question... Are these pictures of you standing in the wine cellar or taking a picture of the door going into the wine cellar? Is that an exterior rated door or an interior door? Interior rated doors will lose a lot of the refrigeration...


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## mrramsey

sdelli said:


> Question... Are these pictures of you standing in the wine cellar or taking a picture of the door going into the wine cellar? Is that an exterior rated door or an interior door? Interior rated doors will lose a lot of the refrigeration...



No this is outside of the cellar. That is an exterior door as well. And yes that door is installed reversed. I designed it for an outswing door but got a steal on this door. 
I do not make wine so storage for carboy's was not in my scope.


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## Floandgary

So I'll bet you've got bottles lined up, bangin' at the door for a spot in there!!! Mighty fine bit of work


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## mrramsey

Well I got the walls and ceiling primed yesterday. Now on to installing the cellar floor, trim and building the racking.


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## sdelli

Cool... Can we see pictures of the inside?


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## mrramsey

sdelli said:


> Cool... Can we see pictures of the inside?



Pictures are hard since the space is small but here is a video to give you a better idea. - http://youtu.be/_aYWJQSbdGM


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## sour_grapes

Looks great, Mike!


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## mrramsey

sour_grapes said:


> Looks great, Mike!



Thanks Paul!
I started on the hardwood flooring tonight.


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## sdelli

Looks great!


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## mrramsey

I picked up the material to construct the wine racking. For this project I designed individual bottle wine racks as opposed to open shelf racking. This was mainly because I will have various wines from multiple vineyards. If I made my own wines or purchased large quantities of the same wines open shelving would be more practical. My rack openings are 3 1/2″ x 3 1/2″ which will hold most every type of 750ml bottles. It will not hold Champagne or Magnums. 336 bottles in the racks + space for ~6-12 cases on the floor.

This design will require the following pieces:

(54) 3/4″ x 1-1/2″ x 64″
(18) 3/4″ x 1-1/2″x 9″
(18) 3/4″x 1-1/2″ x 36-1/4″”
(672) 3/4″ x 3/4″ x 9″
I chose to use common White Wood Pine as it is more than capable as a material choice for this. Commercially available rack kits that are unfinished would easily exceed $1000. The lumber for the racks only cost me $120. I optimized the sizes based on the pieces I was cutting and ultimately chose to use 1×6’s that were pre-cut in 6′ and 4′ lengths. I certainly could have used longer lumber but I also factored in that it would be easier to move to the basement as well as haul in my short bed Nissan Frontier. It is also more difficult to find the longer lengths with less knots. Yes there are knots. I certainly could have chosen clear Radiata Pine but at more than 3 times the cost. If there were more visible surfaces than there are I would have at a minimum purchased a few select boards for the presentation side. As it stands I will get plenty of clear pieces to use on the front from the wood I have.

I will set up a production shop today to cut the pieces to size on my table and mitre saws. Follow that up with sanding…. a lot of sanding. Once the pieces are sanded I will assemble using glue and my brad nailer. I will set up jig to ensure consistency in the finished ladder assemblies. I have yet to make a decision on finishing. I might stain a nice cherry or paint or I could just go naked.


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## sour_grapes

Looking good and promising!

I vote (not that I _have_ a vote! ) a nice, light stain. Cherry would indeed be a good choice, or fruitwood or the like.


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## TXWineDuo

mrramsey said:


> I picked up the material to construct the wine racking. For this project I designed individual bottle wine racks as opposed to open shelf racking. This was mainly because I will have various wines from multiple vineyards. If I made my own wines or purchased large quantities of the same wines open shelving would be more practical. My rack openings are 3 1/2″ x 3 1/2″ which will hold most every type of 750ml bottles. It will not hold Champagne or Magnums. 336 bottles in the racks + space for ~6-12 cases on the floor.
> 
> This design will require the following pieces:
> 
> (54) 3/4″ x 1-1/2″ x 64″
> (18) 3/4″ x 1-1/2″x 9″
> (18) 3/4″x 1-1/2″ x 36-1/4″”
> (672) 3/4″ x 3/4″ x 9″
> I chose to use common White Wood Pine as it is more than capable as a material choice for this. Commercially available rack kits that are unfinished would easily exceed $1000. The lumber for the racks only cost me $120. I optimized the sizes based on the pieces I was cutting and ultimately chose to use 1×6’s that were pre-cut in 6′ and 4′ lengths. I certainly could have used longer lumber but I also factored in that it would be easier to move to the basement as well as haul in my short bed Nissan Frontier. It is also more difficult to find the longer lengths with less knots. Yes there are knots. I certainly could have chosen clear Radiata Pine but at more than 3 times the cost. If there were more visible surfaces than there are I would have at a minimum purchased a few select boards for the presentation side. As it stands I will get plenty of clear pieces to use on the front from the wood I have.
> 
> I will set up a production shop today to cut the pieces to size on my table and mitre saws. Follow that up with sanding…. a lot of sanding. Once the pieces are sanded I will assemble using glue and my brad nailer. I will set up jig to ensure consistency in the finished ladder assemblies. I have yet to make a decision on finishing. I might stain a nice cherry or paint or I could just go naked.



If you could detail your jig setup to make the racks would be helpful for others like us wanting to make some racks.
Thanks
TXWineDuo


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## mrramsey

Here is a progress video...
https://youtu.be/kFgdgL6LJDA


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## mrramsey

No progress this week... busy at work and family in for the weekend


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## mrramsey

I am ready to start routing all of my pieces for the racks. I needed a router table but didn't want to shuck out $150 for a cheap table. So I splurged and spent about $18 bucks and built one with an adjustable fence and dust collection.


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## NorCal

Nicely done!


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## JohnT

Impressive! 

Not clear on why you need to router all of your wine rack pieces?


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## mrramsey

JohnT said:


> Impressive!
> 
> Not clear on why you need to router all of your wine rack pieces?



Doing a 1/4" round over on the verticals and horizontal braces and doing a 1/8" chamfer on the bottle rungs. All comes down to 18+ years as a finish carpenter. I have 690 of these bottle rungs to finish. Sure one could just sit there with a sander and ease the edges but I approach wood working with the same mentality as a drywall finisher. The better the job up front the less sanding there will be.

I now have everything set up in production mode. two quick passes on the table for the bottle rungs and one quick cut on the Miter Saw which is set up at the proper length with a stop block. I will have 690 identical pieces.

So to answer your question of why it is needed - it's not 'needed'. The chamfer on the rungs just gives a cleaner look and less apt to tear a label. If the cellar was not a focal point of a room I would do a less elaborate design for sure but I tend to dwell on the small details because I think they make all of the difference.


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## JohnT

Thanks for explaining. I did not know if there was a functional reason for it. 

It looks great! It will look even better when assembled..


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## mrramsey

JohnT said:


> Thanks for explaining. I did not know if there was a functional reason for it.
> 
> It looks great! It will look even better when assembled..



HEHe even better when it is stocked!


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## bkisel

Mike, I was disappointed to read that you do not make wine but that in no way distracts from how impressed I am with your exhibited carpentry skills.

Besides wine making another hobby of mine is woodworking... I really liked the design of your router/shaper table with what looks like a very effective dust collection setup. As I look back over my woodworking hobby I wish I had invested a lot more time in making jigs.


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## mrramsey

bkisel said:


> Mike, I was disappointed to read that you do not make wine but that in no way distracts from how impressed I am with your exhibited carpentry skills.
> 
> Besides wine making another hobby of mine is woodworking... I really liked the design of your router/shaper table with what looks like a very effective dust collection setup. As I look back over my woodworking hobby I wish I had invested a lot more time in making jigs.



Thanks Bill. I made wine once.... it was a gift from my wife when I got my original wine cooler. That didn't turn out so well LOL. I wish I had the space to actually set up a full wood shop.

The dust collection port is working out very well. I have been trying very hard to keep the dust to a minimum on this project. I will be making an assembly jig for the racking that I will keep since I have already been approached by some friends about the wine racks.


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## ibglowin

Its funny I thought the same thing at first and then I realized sometimes you really like just the "product" and not necessarily the creation or the "getting" of the "product".

I love making great wines. I also love Salmon. Found out I do not love fishing for the "product" in this instance. We went to a fishing lodge in AK for a week a few years back and while the scenery was breathtakingly beautiful I did not care so much for getting up at the crack of dawn to fish along with the cold and rain that comes with it all. I would much rather just go down to the market and pay some big $$$ for a nice filet than catch my own.  LOL



bkisel said:


> Mike, I was disappointed to read that you do not make wine but that in no way distracts from how impressed I am with your exhibited carpentry skills.


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## bkisel

mrramsey said:


> Thanks Bill. I made wine once.... it was a gift from my wife when I got my original wine cooler. That didn't turn out so well LOL. I wish I had the space to actually set up a full wood shop.
> 
> The dust collection port is working out very well. I have been trying very hard to keep the dust to a minimum on this project. I will be making an assembly jig for the racking that I will keep since I have already been approached by some friends about the wine racks.



My woodworking shop back in CT was in our small basement. Since moving to PA I've not done any woodworking but that will change soon. We'll have a 12x20 storage shed delivered tomorrow which will then allow me to start clearing out one bay of the garage. Basically, with my car out of the garage, I'll have a 12x20 garage work shop. Early projects will be shelving, benches and such for the shed and garage. Will probably put my radial arm saw and band saw on rollers. Table saw, drill press a a few other tools/accessories roll around already as part of my Shopsmith.


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## mrramsey

bkisel said:


> My woodworking shop back in CT was in our small basement. Since moving to PA I've not done any woodworking but that will change soon. We'll have a 12x20 storage shed delivered tomorrow which will then allow me to start clearing out one bay of the garage. Basically, with my car out of the garage, I'll have a 12x20 garage work shop. Early projects will be shelving, benches and such for the shed and garage. Will probably put my radial arm saw and band saw on rollers. Table saw, drill press a a few other tools/accessories roll around already as part of my Shopsmith.



I've considered a Shopsmith but I would still have to build a shop. I would have to add on to my house to get a 12x20 ish space. But that's a project for another day.


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## mrramsey

Had to leave town for a couple of days but I got the bottle rungs all cut and routed. Ready to cut the verticals to length and begin assembly. Also ordering the cooling unit this week.


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## mrramsey

One down 26 more to go... and the open bottle was just for reference.

I routed a double vee grove on the face of the horizontal rails. I thought it was fitting since the rest of the rack's edges have a 1/8" chamfer. 

As a note for anyone building similar racks I am spacing the vertical at 3-1/2", the bottle rungs are 3-1/8". This will accommodate all sizes of bottles with the exception of Champagne and Turley's.

The CellarPro 1800QT is on it's way and should arrive next week.


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## Boatboy24

Looks fantastic. But you are way above my pay grade (and patience). 

Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## sdelli

Impressive! Making your own wine racks! I bought mine and thought staining them was a job!


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## JohnT

I grew up around woodworking (my dad was a pro and we had a woodshop behind our house). With that in mind, I have to say that I am impressed! very nice work. Looks like it is a pleasure to build and a pleasure to enjoy!

Please keep the pictures coming! I can almost smell the pine sawdust.


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## bkisel

Oh man, I would be using that project as an excuse to get another dozen or so clamps.





Very nice work BTW.


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## Floandgary

JohnT said:


> I grew up around woodworking (my dad was a pro and we had a woodshop behind our house). With that in mind, I have to say that I am impressed! very nice work. Looks like it is a pleasure to build and a pleasure to enjoy!
> 
> Please keep the pictures coming! I can almost smell the pine sawdust.



Wood worker, Body man (auto!), Chef, Winemaker, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy,,,,,, All have that same creative inspiration


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## mrramsey

Well If I'm lucky I will have the first rack somewhat complete this weekend. Gotta leave for a few days this week though. I am enjoying the build almost as much as the wine.


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## mrramsey

Ok so I just read an interesting article on finishing. (wine racks specifically) The article recommends not to apply stains or finishes especially when the racks are going into an airtight climate controlled environment. The reason is that the odors and or gasses that are released can leach into the corks of the wine and potentially taint the wines flavors. I initially was going to just leave the racks raw and now this just confirms my decision. Though I suppose I could still use a water based stain and water based poly.

Taken from - https://wineracks.com/blog/2010/10/tips-tricks-for-wine-cellars-finishes-stains-and-species-oh-my/
"It is not recommended to keep any sort of stained racks in an airtight, enclosed environment like a climate-controlled wine cellar where you have to be concerned with odors. This can affect the flavor of your wine as the odors might seep in through the cork. If you have a small, enclosed space housing your wine racks than it is recommended to skip the finish all together."


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## sdelli

Me... I stained them. Looks much better! Did the walls too!


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## mrramsey

Things are going slow... Been real busy at work. I did assemble one rack and got the cooling unit installed. I'll post some pics later.


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## Johnd

mrramsey said:


> Ok so I just read an interesting article on finishing. (wine racks specifically) The article recommends not to apply stains or finishes especially when the racks are going into an airtight climate controlled environment. The reason is that the odors and or gasses that are released can leach into the corks of the wine and potentially taint the wines flavors. I initially was going to just leave the racks raw and now this just confirms my decision. Though I suppose I could still use a water based stain and water based poly.



I also read the same article a while back. A little research and conversations with some of the big wine cellar racking producers (almost all offer stain and seal options) indicates that it is indeed ok to stain and seal racks, even in enclosed environments, and can be quite beneficial in terms of appearance, longevity, and stain resistance of your racking. But you do need to choose your products correctly. Look for low VOC, water based products, stay away from oil based products. In todays world, there are tons of low VOC water based products out there.


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## mrramsey

WalterLee said:


> I think a door would look more good, just an opinion as door will maintain the temp and also will look sophisticated according to the wine rack and also if there would be some transparent design on the door which will enhance the look of the house.



Man, you are a little late to the party and punctuation is your friend....


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## JohnT

Mike, 

Any new progress? I am dying for a new pic!


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## mrramsey

JohnT said:


> Mike,
> 
> Any new progress? I am dying for a new pic!



Sorry been a busy few weeks at work.


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## TXWineDuo

Mike, 
looks like a great wine rack but confused, is the picture skewed? It looks like there is too much space at the top and not enough at the bottom maybe for a port bottle? 

TXWineDuo


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## mrramsey

There is trim that still needs to be installed on the front. I need to paint the walls before final assembly.


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## sdelli

I hope you decided to keep the finish natural and not staining it.... It is almost impossible to put a finish on it assy


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## JohnT

Can you post any new photos? Sorry to nag, it is just that this involves two of my favorite things... Wine and Woodworking... and I can't wait to see your progress...


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## mrramsey

Not too much new to post yet. Kind of stalled at the moment... wife had to have eye surgery, going through an acquisition at work. Been drinking plenty of wine though 

I did get the second unit assembled. trying to get the third one done as time allows.


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## mrramsey

OK it's been a little wile since my last post. I've been super busy at work and haven't had time to work on the cellar much. Here is where we are.

The walls have been painted, all racking is built and installed, locks installed and the unit powered on for a 24 hour test. 

I still have work to do on the rest of the basement but as it stands I can add stock at any time now. The cooling unit is working great so far. It took about 30 minutes to bring it down to 59 degrees and through the past 12 hours it seems to cycle about once every 2 hours for about 10 minutes. I am estimating my daily use cost to be about $.20 per day. Sorry the pics aren't better. The color is much darker and more red than in the pics.


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## AZMDTed

It looks great.


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## ibglowin

Looks great!


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## AZMDTed

mrramsey said:


> The cooling unit is working great so far. It took about 30 minutes to bring it down to 59 degrees and through the past 12 hours it seems to cycle about once every 2 hours for about 10 minutes. I am estimating my daily use cost to be about $.20 per day. Sorry the pics aren't better. The color is much darker and more red than in the pics.



Our cellars are about the same square footage. I put in about 200 bottles yesterday morning, and checked the AC usage last night. I don't think the wine is fully chilled to the room temp yet so I think it may get a bit better as it does and I put more wine in. But my 5,000 BTU window unit, with controller, would run for 3 minutes and then be off for 28 minutes. While it's only one data point it shows about 6 minutes an hour of running. Erring on the high side of the AC using 500W when it runs, that works out to about 1.2 KWh a day, or electrical costs (with all associated charges) of about $.17 a day. It's good to see that we're seeing similar results.


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## mrramsey

AZMDTed said:


> Our cellars are about the same square footage. I put in about 200 bottles yesterday morning, and checked the AC usage last night. I don't think the wine is fully chilled to the room temp yet so I think it may get a bit better as it does and I put more wine in. But my 5,000 BTU window unit, with controller, would run for 3 minutes and then be off for 28 minutes. While it's only one data point it shows about 6 minutes an hour of running. Erring on the high side of the AC using 500W when it runs, that works out to about 1.2 KWh a day, or electrical costs (with all associated charges) of about $.17 a day. It's good to see that we're seeing similar results.



Yeah now that it's been running I am at $0.10 per day at about .8 kWh. Once the bottles are in there I expect that to drop to about .6 kWh.


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## Kraffty

You've really come a long way, looks great and looks like it works great too.
Mike


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## Tnuscan

Everything looks great, the details really look nice too. Really enjoyed watching this project through out the whole process.


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## Johnd

mrramsey said:


> Yeah now that it's been running I am at $0.10 per day at about .8 kWh. Once the bottles are in there I expect that to drop to about .6 kWh.



I am waiting fearfully for my first electricity bill since I started mine up, I'm pretty sure it'll be ugly May through September.


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## ibglowin

I know mine cost more like $20 a month to operate in the heat of the Summer. Don't care. The wine (both commercial and homebrew) are safe and sound plus its like dying and going to heaven when its hot outside (after mowing the yard and working in the wine garden) when I go in there to cool down.


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> I know mine cost more like $20 a month to operate in the heat of the Summer. Don't care. The wine (both commercial and homebrew) are safe and sound plus its like dying and going to heaven when its hot outside (after mowing the yard and working in the wine garden) when I go in there to cool down.



I'm in that camp too, I'll pay the bill. Never were truer words spoken, going into the room when it's in the upper 90's, temps and humidity, is like a little piece of heaven, and being surrounded by wine is the icing on top.


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## ibglowin

A 32" flatscreen, chair and a mini fridge stocked with cold beers also helps.....


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> A 32" flatscreen, chair and a mini fridge stocked with cold beers also helps.....



I won't have the flatscreen (at least not yet), but a tasting table and chairs are definitely on the agenda.

Couldn't resist running the numbers, looks like mine is going to run $2.17 per day during the heat of the summer when it runs about 12 hours per day. $65 per month is tolerable for a few months a year I suppose.


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## AZMDTed

My wife enjoys our new wine room/closet. She's in there a couple times a day to cool and dry off from the Maryland weather. Fortunately she's tiny so it seems roomy to her. No room for anything else but wine in mine


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## JohnT

MrRamsey, 

I can not wait to see a photo of it "fully loaded". The room is quite handsome, but not nearly as good looking if it were full!!!!


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## coboll2921

*Have old house with stone wall basement - works great!*

We have a hundred year old house with stone walls. There was a separate room where furnace heat doesn't get into so it keeps the wine really cool in winter when it's bulk aging and drops out particles. In Summer it stays pretty cool also.
To clean up the room we painted the floors, walls, doors and keep a fan running. It always smells good and it's too damp. It's the lab.


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## mrramsey

JohnT said:


> MrRamsey,
> 
> I can not wait to see a photo of it "fully loaded". The room is quite handsome, but not nearly as good looking if it were full!!!!



You and me both friend. I am at 9%  Hoping to be 50% this summer yet.


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## acorad

Looks great!

I built a refrigerated wine "cellar" in my garage around 10 years ago. As others have said non-varying temperatures are key for wine storage. I have a heater and an air conditioner in my cellar, and the temp stays constant at 63F all year. 

fwiw, from experience, if the A/C unit's capacity is too over-sized for the size of the room, it will run only for short bursts. Those short bursts will only remove a small portion of the room's humidity, resulting in the potential for the A/C to ice-up from the excessive humidity that remains, rendering the unit essentially inoperable.

Better to have a smaller unit that runs more often and for longer periods of time, than a too-large unit.

I don't know of any good way to calculate in advance the perfect A/C capacity for such a unique application, so for me it's been trial-and-error.

Again, beautiful work!

Best,

Andy


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## mrramsey

acorad said:


> Looks great!
> 
> I built a refrigerated wine "cellar" in my garage around 10 years ago. As others have said non-varying temperatures are key for wine storage. I have a heater and an air conditioner in my cellar, and the temp stays constant at 63F all year.
> 
> fwiw, from experience, if the A/C unit's capacity is too over-sized for the size of the room, it will run only for short bursts. Those short bursts will only remove a small portion of the room's humidity, resulting in the potential for the A/C to ice-up from the excessive humidity that remains, rendering the unit essentially inoperable.
> 
> Better to have a smaller unit that runs more often and for longer periods of time, than a too-large unit.
> 
> I don't know of any good way to calculate in advance the perfect A/C capacity for such a unique application, so for me it's been trial-and-error.
> 
> Again, beautiful work!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Andy



Thanks Andy,

You make a valid point regarding A/C units. This is why I specifically chose to use a wine cooling unit made for my cellar's size and capacity. There were a lot of variables that went into the sizing which included the cellars physical location, exterior wall construction and where it faced etc.

From an energy use standpoint here is a snapshot of the last 12 hours. I am currently maintaining 60 degrees. The red is the cellar and the dark blue is my refrigerator in the kitchen.


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## acorad

Looks great Mike! And very cool ability to track your nrg usage!

Best,

Andy


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## Marauderer

Mike, thanks for sharing with pics. I had another design but, I like yours better. I mostly bottle splits and your design will accommodate all the bottles that I use..


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## mrramsey

Marauderer said:


> Mike, thanks for sharing with pics. I had another design but, I like yours better. I mostly bottle splits and your design will accommodate all the bottles that I use..



Glad you found it useful. It will handle anything from splits up to a 3-1/2" diameter. Good luck on your build.


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## mrramsey

I finished up the trim this weekend. I am now ready for paint then carpet. I will clarify... that this is the remainder of the basement. The cellar is running great.


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## mrramsey

I made a short video of the interior of the cellar the other day. Its such a small footprint photos are difficult without a super wide angle lense.

https://youtu.be/IpM0A-g7SeI

I also updated the progress pic page on my website - http://www.ramsey-nerds.com/blog/the-wine-cellar-project/


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## mrramsey

Finally the carpet is getting installed today thus marking the completion of the wine cellar / rec room project.I'll post final pics later today.


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## Johnd

Mike, how's your power usage looking as you've gotten the cellar loaded with wine? I've noticed a marked decrease in run time and frequency as I've added more wine into the room. My bottle racks / diamonds are about half full now, and just a few empty spots in the carboy racks, 3 barrels in there also, seems to be running 1/3 or so less than before. I don't have a monitor like you do, so curious what real data is looking like.


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## mrramsey

Johnd said:


> Mike, how's your power usage looking as you've gotten the cellar loaded with wine? I've noticed a marked decrease in run time and frequency as I've added more wine into the room. My bottle racks / diamonds are about half full now, and just a few empty spots in the carboy racks, 3 barrels in there also, seems to be running 1/3 or so less than before. I don't have a monitor like you do, so curious what real data is looking like.



Hey John, I still have quite a bit of space to fill so I am still about the same but like you are experiencing I see things dropping as it gets filled. the month of July was about 16 kwh.


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