# Latest MLF results



## geek (Dec 8, 2014)

Pitched VP41 October 15.[
Shows the same as almost 2 weeks ago I think.

Comments?

ATTACH]19428[/ATTACH]


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## ibglowin (Dec 8, 2014)

It doesn't look like your leaving the paper in long enough to me.


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## geek (Dec 8, 2014)

I put the paper in the solution and left it there for over 4 hours. Removed and put in garage which was cold last night about high 30s.

Then around 6am today I brought it into the house and placed on a table close to pellet stove to dry completely.


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## ibglowin (Dec 8, 2014)

4 hours is not near enough time and you can tell by looking at the top of the page. It is white and not yellow. 

Put the paper in before going to bed and take it out in the morning. 10 hours in the solvent is about the sweet spot I find. You can't rush wine making or Chromatography.


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## geek (Dec 8, 2014)

I will repeat later today then. So I know how will that affect the results?
It seems like it did develop to the upper part but not all the way to the top of the paper.


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## ibglowin (Dec 8, 2014)

I don't think it was left in long enough to get much if any Lactic results.


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## geek (Dec 8, 2014)

I will post results tomorrow.
I'm afraid of over oaking the wine so feel in a bit of rush...
This link shows first test results from Nov 26 and I see your point also on that test:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f60/malolactic-results-47758/

.


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## ibglowin (Dec 8, 2014)

The whole paper should be yellow when fully developed and dried.


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## geek (Dec 8, 2014)

One last question, I don't have much of the solution left, so it's been in the jug and is about 1/4 of an inch or so, I assume that would be fine/enough.


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## ibglowin (Dec 8, 2014)

While you don't need much I like to keep about 1/3" of an inch to 1/2" max. I make my line at 1" so that gives me at least 1/2" of paper to draw up and onto the spots. You do not want to immerse the spots in the solvent or come close to the line by any means. I would top it up from your bottle of stock solution just a bit.


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## geek (Dec 8, 2014)

I don't have more solution left.
Anyway, yes I also draw the line at 1 inch.

One thing I don't like about the jug is the ridge on the bottom, looks like the paper tilts a bit more to one side all the times.

Thanks,


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## ibglowin (Dec 8, 2014)

Well if you run out of solvent in the middle of the run you will have a poor result yet once again and waste another piece of chromatography paper to boot……

So your choice of what to do from here.


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## geek (Dec 10, 2014)

Another test


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## ibglowin (Dec 10, 2014)

Looks to be about 50% complete for the most part. The first wine looks like it is about done however.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 10, 2014)

Yep, what ibglowin said.


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## geek (Dec 10, 2014)

I am concerned that the wine will over oak, do you guys think it is ok to rack these vessels to remove oak spirals and sediment?

All in all, it seems like all the tests I've done since last year in all wines show a smear in the middle...

Wondering if I'm doing something wrong...


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## GreginND (Dec 10, 2014)

geek said:


> I am concerned that the wine will over oak, do you guys think it is ok to rack these vessels to remove oak spirals and sediment?
> 
> All in all, it seems like all the tests I've done since last year in all wines show a smear in the middle...
> 
> Wondering if I'm doing something wrong...




First about the oak: Some would argue there's no such thing as over oaking. But, if you are using oak spirals and they have been in for two months (I presume based on your MLF pitch date), then there's probably not going to be a lot more they will be releasing to the wine. So, I don't think you are in danger of going over. The spirals can stay in there. Keep in mind you want to oak to a point that it tastes a bit over because the oak will diminish with more aging.

Now, a few thoughts about the MLF: It looks like your secondary fermentation is a little slow. MLF can take a while and patience is always best. But perhaps you could tell us a little more about what you've done so far.

1. Did you add any SO2? You don't want to add sulfites until MLF is complete as it will inhibit the ML bacteria.

2. What is the pH of the wine? If it is too acidic, the MLB may be inhibited. If above 3.2, you should be fine.

3. Are you keeping these warm? MLF slows down as it gets cooler. Ideally these should be kept at 70-75°F until MLF is complete.

4. Have you used any MLB nutrients? Optimalo is one that may help. MLB also feeds off of the dead yeast, so having fine lees in there is a good thing. It helps to stir it up a few times a week as the MLB and lees tend to settle down on the bottom. The bacteria benefits from the stirring.

Hope this helps.


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## geek (Dec 10, 2014)

1. No
2. Within good range around 3.5
3. Sort of, my basement temp is in the mid to high 60s, the biggest vessel is the stainless stell 15gal keg, in which I was placing a brew belt on and off
4. I added optio-malo to the wine before the VP41 was pitched. VP41 was hydrated with Acti-ML. I did stir the wines during the few first weeks but not lately.

I tasted the 15gal vessel (*Sangio *sample far to the right) and I can taste the oak. At the same time, the sample wine was taken from the spigot on the bottom and I think the spirals are sitting now at the bottom so maybe the taste is more pronounced on the bottom.

I agree that the Amarone (first one from the left) shows more complete, signs of small bubbles sort of stopped recently so that may explain why is progreesed more.

The other 2 samples in the middle are from a 2nd run from the Sangio.
.


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## geek (Dec 11, 2014)

Has anyone tried adding extra Opti-Malo plus after the MLF is going?

I added it to the wine right before I pitched the VP41.


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## nicklausjames (Dec 11, 2014)

I agree that the malo prefers temps around 70 degrees.

Also if you are using appropriately sized oak spirals you should not have to worry about over oaking. They say the oak is done after 6 weeks but the spirals can be left in to around 5 months to help balance the wine. Not sure how that works but that is what I read somewhere. Personally I don't leave them in for 5 months but I'm not in a rush to remove them at 6 weeks either.

Also in my experience the oak with spirals tastes strongest around 4 to 6 weeks. It will incorporate and not be so pronounced with some time. I too thought I over Oaked but after a few weeks the oak became much less pronounced and I used a spiral for 15 gallons on 10. Wine tastes fine now and the spiral is still sitting in it.


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## geek (Dec 22, 2014)

Here are latest results from yesterday's test.

I decided to add Kmeta to both batches of 2nd run.
I think I am doing the same on the Amarone and Sangio.


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## ibglowin (Dec 22, 2014)

Those look better. Little Malic but not too much.


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## GreginND (Dec 22, 2014)

It looks like it is really struggling to finish ML completely. Sometimes they just stick and don't finish. Just be wary of long term stability. You will want to go for the higher end of SO2 levels to keep it stable longer term. I know folks usually recommend 0.5 molecular SO2 for reds and 0.8 for whites. But I would opt for the higher in this case just to be safe.


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## geek (Dec 23, 2014)

Same paper shows a bit better after a couple days, see this.

I am racking the Amarone and Sangio and adding kmeta today.
I don't know why but all my MLF tests always show a smear of malic left over and typically stay there, like if it got stuck.

But I do everything per the books:
-hydrate VP41 with Acti-ML
-add Opti Malo to wine
-pitched hydrated VP41
-temp in the basement ~ mid or high 60s
-use brew belt when needed and stir once in a while

The Sangio is the biggest batch going in a 15gal beer stainless steel keg, wine temp was in the mid 60s this time but added a brew belt on/off to make sure the temp didn't go up too much.


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## ramsis23 (Dec 23, 2014)

Running my first mlf on a blackberry Malbec, using white labs bacteria. First time I've ever blown my bung. From everything I've read, I didn't think it would be that vigorous. From everything I've read, blackberry can be highly variable in malic acid (10-80%). Anyone think I can end up with too much lactic acid? Also, where do you buy your chromatography supplies from?


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## ibglowin (Dec 24, 2014)

Morewine or PIWine sells them.


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