# Coconut ???



## K&GB (May 27, 2008)

I put an Amreican White Oak medium toast plus spiral in my 3-gal batch of black currant a week ago and drew a small sample for tasting last night. I was expecting what the description predicted, honey, roasted nuts, and a hint of coffee and spices. Boy was I surprised.




Definite coconut flavor on the finish. Maybe some toasted almond too. It tasted artificial.



Has anyone else tried this product? 


Ken*Edited by: K&GB *


----------



## Wade E (May 27, 2008)

I have not used the spirals yet. I prefer chips and cubes, havent tried the beans yet either.


----------



## NorthernWinos (May 27, 2008)

Sounds wonderful....really flavor packed.


----------



## jjk1991 (May 28, 2008)

I use the spirals myself from the Barrel Mill. I like to snap them in half for 2 reasons: (1) easier to get them out of the carboy and (2) I get better extraction rates. The taste is exactly what you would want, but I admit, 3 months is the key for me since I do prefer a more oaky taste. My favorite is the American Medium Toast since I get a hint of smoky flavor with an aftertaste of honey and vanilla. This has really enhanced my reds especially my Amarone' and Merlots. I still put the oak that comes with the kits in as well so I really oak my wines.


----------



## K&GB (May 28, 2008)

I enjoy big oakey reds, but my brief experience as a home winemaker has left me wary of oak. I used medium toast french oak cubes during bulk aging in my first two reds- cab and sangiovese, about three weeks in each. Afterwards, I was almost certain the wine was ruined. But it wasn't until later that I realized the objectional aromas (identical in both)were a result of the oak. I also did the CC SUper Tuscan kit which used three different types of oak, finishing with medium toast hungarian oak cubes. This wine has a similar aroma to my first two reds. 


After4months in the carboy, I wound up blending the sangiovese and the cab at bottling. By then, the oak aroma had subsided considerably and the wines were starting to taste good. I trust that the Super Tuscan will follow suit. 


I wanted to broaden my experience with oak, so I used a different type in my strawberry (american light toast spiral) and black currant (american medium toast plus spiral). I was concerned when I tasted them both, after only a week on the oak, because of the coconut taste in the currant. It seemed artificial, and it got me wondering what the "Plus" in medium toast plus meant. Was it something they added, like artificial flavor? However, I've smelled and tasted the other spiral that came in the package, and all I get is an oak taste that is quite pleasant. 


So I've decided to trust and be patient. I'll giveboth wines two more weeks with the spirals and then rack them. Thanks for the feedback.


Ken*Edited by: K&GB *


----------



## jjk1991 (May 28, 2008)

I have done several Super Tuscan varietals and the oaking I do has them prepared to go for the 2009 Winemaker competition. WE is ready to go at 2 years and the MM are ready at 2-3 years. I'm a big italian red fan and I feel I have them oaked just right for competition purposes and some friends have shared the wines at a couple of restaurants and they want to sell some. Been pondering as to whether or not I want to go big or not as a winery and have the juice shipped bulk. Start up costs are staggering especially with a niche product around the central IL area. I looked at a winery at the Chateau Thomas Winery in Indianapolis, IN and Doc was almost enticing me to do it with his input. It is tempting especially with the results I have been getting at the past 2 competitions. We'll see, but a dream is a dream until it becomes a reality on preserverance and determination.


----------



## K&GB (May 28, 2008)

jjk,


Thanks for the encouragement about the oak. I'll probably try more and for a longer period with my next red kit. 


I like what you said about dreams andwish you the best of luck. 


Ken


----------



## JimCook (May 29, 2008)

K&amp;GB said:


> It seemed artificial, and it got me wondering what the "Plus" in medium toast plus meant. Was it something they added, like artificial flavor?




The 'plus' just means a little more flame hit the oak to prepare it. The general levels are...


medium - lightest level of toasting
medium plus (a.k.a. house) - moderate toasting
heavy - most toasting of the wood


Since different oak present different flavor profiles at different levels of toasting, it can provide a lot of customization to a wine, depending on the flavors you are searching for. Combine that with mixing different oak types and/or toasting levels along with the length of time the wine sits on oak and there's a huge amount of combinations. The key is to find what you find pleasing in your wine at the time when you expect to be drinking the wine. 


Look for and search in the 'American, Hungarian, and French' links in the left nav bar of this page for more toasting info: http://www.stavin.com/oak/intro.htm


It's also important to note that oak fades over time. I have read many accounts of winemakers noting their wine tasted like a tree only to have everything balance out in a year. Think of oak as a straightline drop over time, so the longer the bottle sits, the less 'forward' the oak presentation will be. 


I hope this helps,


- Jim


----------



## K&GB (May 29, 2008)

Good info. Thanks Jim!


----------

