# Live virtual wine tasting event for the home winemaker - Done



## NorCal (Nov 3, 2021)

I recently participated in a Justin virtual wine tasting event for work and it made me think how great it would be to have a similar event with my fellow home winemakers. My personal goal has been to make a high quality wine at home. This is an opportunity to interact with the in-house sommelier and certified wine educator while you are experiencing the wine with your peers. I found the host from the Justin winery to be very knowledgeable and I learned some things during the tasting that I feel will help my own winemaking.

If you are serious about improving the wine you make at home, I think this would be a valuable event and you will also receive three very good wines. We will learn about the Paso Robles, CA region and how the location and weather impacts the wine that Justin is making. You will have the technical details of the wine you are tasting (pH, TA, ABV, yeast & barrel selection) in front of you while we are doing the tasting. At the end of the tasting, there will be time to ask questions.

*The Wines*
1. Viognier
2. Cabernet Sauvignon
3. Right Angle (Bordeaux region blend, not available in stores)

*Virtual Event Details*
Date: Friday December 10th
Time: 5:00pm Pacific time
Winery: Justin, out of Paso Robles, CA
Sommelier and Certified Wine Educator: Jim Gerakaris

*The total discounted cost for the event is $93 - $98* *includes: *(depending on your local sales tax rate)
- the 3 wines listed above in 750ml bottles
- sales tax & shipping
- link to the specification sheets of the wine
- link to participate in the 1 hour live tasting

If you are interested in participating, click on the link below and register for the event. A representative from Justin will then contact you directly to collect your payment information. Must register by November 24th! Note: there can be difficulties and delays shipping into the following states: AL, AR, DE, IN, LA, MS, NJ, OH, OK, RI, UT.


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 4, 2021)

Very cool! Are there any stipulations about the number of participants per location?


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## NorCal (Nov 4, 2021)

I'm assuming they will use Zoom, so they can accomodate plenty. I would not hesitate to pass the message and link to anyone that would be interested.


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## ceeaton (Nov 4, 2021)

Are there any issues shipping the wine to PA from out of state? I know we have some strange rules around these parts (it is the PRPA) and I normally either buy my wine here or make it. @jgmann67, chime in at any time since I know you know about this kinda thing.


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## NorCal (Nov 4, 2021)

It wasn’t mentioned as a state having an issue, but a good question to ask when they contact you, if you are going to participate.


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## BMarNJ (Nov 5, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> Are there any issues shipping the wine to PA from out of state? I know we have some strange rules around these parts (it is the PRPA) and I normally either buy my wine here or make it. @jgmann67, chime in at any time since I know you know about this kinda thing.


Wine can be shipped to PA, but not NJ


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## ceeaton (Nov 5, 2021)

BMarNJ said:


> Wine can be shipped to PA, but not NJ


I knew it had to be one of our States...


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## Nebbiolo020 (Nov 5, 2021)

Paso is where I work. And Justin is just down the road from my work. They have a mixed reputation in the region for some iffy stuff.

if it wasn’t probably wine I’ve had already I would participate.


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## Khristyjeff (Nov 5, 2021)

This is a great idea, @NorCal. Thanks for arranging it. I'm signed up.


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## 4score (Nov 8, 2021)

Looking forward to this @NorCal ! Thanks for organizing! It will be fun to hear all of our perceptions of the same wines. As a community on this forum, we rarely get to synchronize like this, so that will be fun. Also looking forward to hearing from their somm. I understand he also knows quite a bit about the winemaking. Too bad we couldn't send him a sample of OUR wines for him to review online! This is going to be fun!


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## BMarNJ (Nov 8, 2021)

Have fun, and I hope you can record and post the zoom tasting. I can’t get wine shipped to NJ, and only see the cab in stores, but I’d like to watch after and see how you all made out.


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## distancerunner (Nov 9, 2021)

I filled out the form and submitted. After that a notice came up asking to close the page.

Is something else supposed to happen?


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## NorCal (Nov 9, 2021)

@distancerunner, I think you are fine. I'll let you know when they start contacting us and make sure you are included.


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## NorCal (Nov 9, 2021)

I checked in with them. So far we have 11 people that have registered. We need at least 20 to make it worthwhile for them. Hopefully some of you are waiting until we are closer to the 24th deadline.


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## mainshipfred (Nov 9, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I checked in with them. So far we have 11 people that have registered. We need at least 20 to make it worthwhile for them. Hopefully some of you are waiting until we are closer to the 24th deadline.



I don't know if you can tell who registered but I did. At least I think I did everything properly.


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## cmason1957 (Nov 9, 2021)

I'm in, so we are at at least 12 folks now.


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## Donz (Nov 9, 2021)

Would love to join but these wines cannot be sent to Quebec Canada without the government getting involved I believe.


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 9, 2021)

OK, I signed up. I guess I'm lucky 13.


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## hounddawg (Nov 9, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> OK, I signed up. I guess I'm lucky 13.


sorry boatboy, just one of my moods but from here on out i decree @Boatboy24 for ever more shall be known to me as 13,,,,, LMFAO
Dawg


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 9, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> sorry boatboy, just one of my moods but from here on out i decree @Boatboy24 for ever more shall be known to me as 13,,,,, LMFAO
> Dawg



No worries, I've been called much worse!


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## Chuck E (Nov 10, 2021)

I'm in


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## Donz (Nov 10, 2021)

I have contacted the SAQ (government run's the alcohol here in Quebec Canada) to see if I can have these wines shipped directly to my home without any hassles. 

I Love Justin wines and would really like to participate...


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## jgmann67 (Nov 10, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> Are there any issues shipping the wine to PA from out of state? I know we have some strange rules around these parts (it is the PRPA) and I normally either buy my wine here or make it. @jgmann67, chime in at any time since I know you know about this kinda thing.



The information on varying state tax rates in the original post makes me think they have it sorted out where they can and cannot ship. 

But, yes, wine can be shipped to PA. PA law provides for a Direct Wine Shipper license. Here's an FAQ on direct wine shippers: https://www.lcb.pa.gov/Legal/Documents/DWS_FAQs.pdf.


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## David Violante (Nov 16, 2021)

Looking forward to this event! Can we invite others? And are we allowed to put this out on other social media or just here?


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## NorCal (Nov 16, 2021)

Yes, please invite your fellow winemakers. We have 15 out of the necessary 20 minimum spots to fill, before the tasting is officially a go.


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## ibglowin (Nov 16, 2021)

What happened to the "original wine" that was in the mix?



NorCal said:


> Yes, please invite your fellow winemakers. We have 15 out of the necessary 20 minimum spots to fill, before the tasting is officially a go.


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## NorCal (Nov 16, 2021)

ibglowin said:


> What happened to the "original wine" that was in the mix?


 You are probably referring to 'Justification' from the previous thread. The price point of Justification pushed the cost of attending past the point I thought we could get enough participants. However, the Right Angle that was chosen should be a very close second and kept the total cost under $100


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## NorCal (Nov 18, 2021)

*It's officially a go! If you signed up already, they will be contacting you. If you have yet to sign up and are interested, there is still time.*


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## ibglowin (Nov 18, 2021)

So what do I do with this now? LOL






NorCal said:


> *It's officially a go! If you signed up already, they will be contacting you. If you have yet to sign up and are interested, there is still time.*


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## NorCal (Nov 18, 2021)

ibglowin said:


> So what do I do with this now? LOL
> 
> View attachment 81138


I really liked that wine! If you really did go and buy based on my first post, let me know and I’ll send you a bottle of my 100 point CF blend, if you’ll do a blind tasting.


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## Donz (Nov 19, 2021)

I will not be able to participate being in Canada unfortunately. I cant even register on the site.

If you guys can share the link I would still like to hear your questions.


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## cmason1957 (Nov 19, 2021)

Got a phone call today to give the folks a CC number, at least they said that's where they were from. Had a slight Indian accent, but I went with it anyway. Not sure why I had to install that thing on my computer, but I'm sure it's all just fine. 

(and none of the above, except for getting a call from Justin has any basis in anything).


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 22, 2021)

Just got off the phone with Spencer and confirmed everything. Looking forward to this! Thanks @NorCal!


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## distancerunner (Nov 22, 2021)

Done and done. Looking forward to this. 

Will they include tasting notes with the shipment?


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## NorCal (Nov 23, 2021)

@distancerunner, you can find the tasting notes and a lot of wine making details at these links:
Viognier
Cabernet Sauvignon 
Right Angle


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## distancerunner (Nov 23, 2021)

Thank you!


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## mainshipfred (Nov 23, 2021)

NorCal said:


> @distancerunner, you can find the tasting notes and a lot of wine making details at these links:
> Viognier
> Cabernet Sauvignon
> Right Angle



Interesting, all these wines have a higher than I'm used ABV. I was particularly surprised with the Viognier at 15.5%. I may have posted this already but I'm not sure. Had I not known the winemaker or vineyard when I picked up my Viognier I probably would have refused them. They were a bit overripe, had a lot of raisons and for the most part not what I would accept. The brix out of a few berries was over 28 and I have a feeling they already started fermenting inside the berries like whole cluster fermentation. For some reason I never took an initial SG though I would guess it was over 1.120. The winemaker told me they to do a whole cluster press unless I wanted an orange wine but I was afraid I could puncture my bladder so I destemmed and immediately pressed and I will have an orange wine. Without looking I seem to remember the pH being around 3.6 which is also a little higher than my past experience with Viognier. All in all he told me this is the condition they pick it every year and with good results. I asked if they watered it back and he told me only if they think it needs it upon bench trials but it's normally pretty balanced. So unless I water it back I'm going to have an 18% ABV with some residual sugar. Right now it's still fermenting, down to 1.007 and I doubt it's going to go much lower. It really doesn't taste that out of balance. So I can't wait to try a 15.5% Viognier.


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## ibglowin (Dec 1, 2021)

My wines were supposed to be delivered today but of course they are still sitting in Phoenix, AZ overnight and the temps yesterday were 84 for the high...... Now showing delivery tomorrow. I did pick up a 2016 Justification as well as added a bottle of the 2019 Justification since the prices and shipping were pretty good. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon!


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## buzi (Dec 2, 2021)

Sounds like a terrific event! Unfortunately I just saw this notice. Looking forward to seeing the tasting notes.


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## SLM (Dec 2, 2021)

buzi said:


> Sounds like a terrific event! Unfortunately I just saw this notice. Looking forward to seeing the tasting notes.


Just got off the phone with them. They are shipping to me today to Washington. If you want to give it a shot, Spencer says to call him, 707-856-2856.


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## ibglowin (Dec 2, 2021)

The wines are safe!


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## sour_grapes (Dec 3, 2021)

ibglowin said:


> The wines are safe!



...for about a week!


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## 4score (Dec 4, 2021)

Got my box yesterday. I’m ready!!


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## David Violante (Dec 4, 2021)

Just got my box today! Can’t wait!


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## 4score (Dec 4, 2021)

Winemakers.........Start your engines!!


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## Donz (Dec 4, 2021)

Love to know how it goes. Is there I link that I can listen?


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## 4score (Dec 4, 2021)

As soon as we have the link we can publish it here.


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## Donz (Dec 4, 2021)

Link?!


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## 4score (Dec 4, 2021)

Donz said:


> Link?!


The event is Friday, December 10th ... no link yet


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## NorCal (Dec 6, 2021)

In case you missed it, the links to the Wine Notes are on post #35, also attached below.


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## NorCal (Dec 6, 2021)

I was talking to @4score and he said he was thinking of doing some side by side comparisons with wines he has made during the virtual tasting. So he will have 6 glasses, the 3 from Justin and 3 that he has made. 

I thought that was a good idea, so I'll plan on having a Viognoir, a Cab and a Cab Sauv blend that I made as well. By tasting side by side I can see if I can pick out similarities and differences and try to identify any gaps and perhaps spark discussion on how I could narrow those gaps in the future.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 7, 2021)

That's a good idea, I'll probably do the same. BTW I received my wine yesterday.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 7, 2021)

Mine arrived yesterday as well (in hindsight, we should've combined to save on shipping, Fred). Looking forward to Friday.


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## distancerunner (Dec 7, 2021)

Bad timing. I‘m out of state and won’t return until after the tasting. The wine arrived yesterday, at home.

If I can, I’ll sit in. But I won’t have the wine.


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## Chuck E (Dec 7, 2021)

My bottles arrived last Friday. Should we synchronize on edibles for in between tastes?


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## ibglowin (Dec 7, 2021)

Sounds good to me! 





Chuck E said:


> My bottles arrived last Friday. Should we synchronize on edibles for in between tastes?


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## Chuck E (Dec 7, 2021)

@ibglowin Mike, not exactly what I had in mind, but alrighty!


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 7, 2021)

ibglowin said:


> The wines are safe!
> 
> View attachment 81664



So, Mike: you now have an assignment. At the point in the tasting when we start talking about Justification, it is your job to hold up the Right Angle and ask why your bottle is different.


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## David Violante (Dec 9, 2021)

I’m wondering when would be a good time to open the bottles for the tasting. Just prior to start, an hour prior, decant half and keep the remaining bottled until start… does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?


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## ibglowin (Dec 9, 2021)

Depends on how much your going to drink tomorrow night! I plan on pouring out about 3oz of each and then stuff the cork back in and I will revisit these over the weekend more than likely. Of course this plan could be altered depending on tasting results! I will pour the wines about 30 mins beforehand and allow the wines to air and come up to a warmer temp as right now the reds are stored at ~55F and the white at 43F.

I will also have some water crackers and perhaps some brie and a few grapes on hand as it will be 5PM my time IIRC.



David Violante said:


> I’m wondering when would be a good time to open the bottles for the tasting. Just prior to start, an hour prior, decant half and keep the remaining bottled until start… does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?


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## ibglowin (Dec 9, 2021)

@NorCal 

Do we have a list of participants available?


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## NorCal (Dec 9, 2021)

I could ask for a list, but they wouldn't have it by screen name. It might be better if people put their first name and screen name when they log into the Zoom call. I asked if they mind if I share the link, so that those that didn't buy the wine could listen in as well. I haven't heard back as of yet.


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## ibglowin (Dec 9, 2021)

That sounds like a good idea.



NorCal said:


> It might be better if people put their first name and screen name when they log into the Zoom call.


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## balatonwine (Dec 9, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I asked if they mind if I share the link, so that those that didn't buy the wine could listen in as well. I haven't heard back as of yet.



I of course not being able to buy the wine, it still would be nice to listen in. If not live, then at least of a video of the event. Either would be good (especially considering time zone issues). Cheers.


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## David Violante (Dec 9, 2021)

Mike, great suggestions thank you ~


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 10, 2021)

Is it 8pm yet?


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## mainshipfred (Dec 10, 2021)

I have yet to do a Zoom call, just hope I'm smart enough to know how and real interested how it works.


Boatboy24 said:


> Is it 8pm yet?



It's 8:30 in Hungary, I wonder if @balatonwine is wondering where everyone else is.


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## ibglowin (Dec 10, 2021)

Wines are getting some air!


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## Donz (Dec 10, 2021)

balatonwine said:


> I of course not being able to buy the wine, it still would be nice to listen in. If not live, then at least of a video of the event. Either would be good (especially considering time zone issues). Cheers.


agree same over here...


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## cmason1957 (Dec 10, 2021)

I was enjoying the talk, until a tornado warning came up right near us. Headed to the basement, laptop battery died couldn't get back in. My wife and I still had a wonderful tasting. Would have loved to hear the comments and questions. No damage near us, but just South of us is the Weather Service and the abandoned the building, so we probably made the right call.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 10, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> I was enjoying the talk, until a tornado warning came up right near us. Headed to the basement, laptop battery died couldn't get back in. My wife and I still had a wonderful tasting. Would have loved to hear the comments and questions. No damage near us, but just South of us is the Weather Service and the abandoned the building, so we probably made the right call.



Sorry you had to duck out, but glad you are safe and sound.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 10, 2021)

@NorCal Thanks so much for putting this together. Jim certainly knows his stuff and is easy to listen to. I really enjoyed it. Great getting a chance to 'meet' all of you in person.


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## ibglowin (Dec 10, 2021)

Thanks @NorCal for putting this together!


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## 4score (Dec 10, 2021)

Great event! Really enjoyed seeing a lot of wine friends out there. When's the next one?


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## Khristyjeff (Dec 10, 2021)

Thanks @NorCal My wife and I really enjoyed Jim's presentation and the wines that were selected.


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## JBP (Dec 10, 2021)

Ditto - thank you so much for setting this up! What a fun way to spend a Friday night with a MN snowstorm outside. So sorry the weather brought Craig and wife tornados and glad they prioritized safety. I am sure the wines were equally as good in the basement.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 11, 2021)

Thanks Ken for setting it up and for helping me with the Zoom setup. Jim was a good speaker my only complaint is he made us wait 20+ minutes before we could drink wine. 

The were a few takeaways I thought were interesting.

1. The business of commercial winemaking: He mentioned the owner was a fan of Bordeaux style wines and that is how he set up his vineyard. Mark asked the question about Norton but the response related to a much broader spectrum of lesser know varietals. Since they are not a boutique winery they must cater to public demand and his message was the general public would not be as interested in something they never heard of. Being relatively new to wine, making wine has given me a much broader appreciation of less common varietals.

2. Different vintages and AVAs: This is one I have always given consideration to. He talked about a winemaker in Paso Robles, Sonoma and/or Napa all being relatively close have different growing conditions and soils requiring different considerations in the vinification. 
Even though he knows where his fruit comes from and generally knows what to expect, conditions (primarily weather) alter what is generally expected and their process for example in 2019 might not be the same as 2020. We as home winemakers normally don't have this kind of information and although we do have the ability to test for certain things we are to an extent going into it blind.

3. Yeasts: I believe toward the beginning of his presentation he mentioned they don't experiment much with different yeasts. It seems that through the years they have found particular strains that appear to suit their wines the best. The comment he made about the description yeast producers use to describe the qualities their yeasts provide was interesting. To a certain point I understand where he was coming from but I really don't think these descriptions are totally blind. I'm a big fan of experimenting with yeasts though making decisions is not black and white to me. One example is, BDX is cultured in France for Bordeaux style wines but if I get my fruit from the west coast will it necessarily have the same results. Another is a red or white specific yeast, how the heck does it know what it's fermenting.

4. Making wine once a year: Being I was 61 when I started making wine 5 years ago I think puts me in a category of many here. I don't have years of past experience with my processes. I won't know if what I did this year will provide the product I was hoping for for another 2-3 years. If the wine I made 2-3 years ago is not what I was going for I'm not going to repeat the process. Was the fruit the same, did I learn more since, was my note taking accurate enough to know what I really did, do I think I made the right decisions, all of this makes it difficult to know what and when to change things. So I think he brought up a very good point on this one. I would imagine it's much easier for those who have more years under their belt.

I know there are others I'm not thinking about but all in all I thought it was very interesting not to mention my first Zoom conference. Thanks again Ken for your help getting me set up. It was nice putting a face to an avatar and screen name.


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## ibglowin (Dec 11, 2021)

I am just curious. Maybe I am just really good at detecting RS (residual sugar) but did anyone else think the reds had a fair amount of RS? Especially the Cab Sauv.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 11, 2021)

To be honest I really enjoyed the Viognier, the reds weren't my favorite and will have to try them again tonight. From what I remember I think I did sense some.


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## ibglowin (Dec 11, 2021)

Viognier was good. Again slightly off dry IMHO and I could detect just a hint of oak from being born and raised in an oak barrel. A little softer in texture.

I had a Viognier at Thanksgiving from WA State that was born and raised in a Nomblot concrete egg and it was amazing and yet very different than this wine.


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## Dan Tancibok (Dec 11, 2021)

I'll echo the other comments. Thanks @NorCal for setting it up and thanks to Jim for an excellent presentation! The wines were excellent and my wife and I learned a lot. Well managed and well done!!


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 11, 2021)

@ibglowin you are probably correct. I wouldn't call any of the three wines out as even being off dry, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is some RS in there. With the Viognier, I think Jim even mentioned there was a very small amount. 

Not to my surprise, with the ABV, but on all three, I initially got a little alcohol on the nose. It eventually went away. FWIW, I poured all three about 15 minutes before we started. The Viognier had been in the fridge overnight and I put the reds in my ~50 degree garage for about 45 minutes before they were opened. 

I really enjoyed all three, and for $25, I would certainly bring the Cab to a gathering where I thought folks would appreciate a decent wine. For me, the Viognier stole the show though. It is my favorite white wine and this one was particularly good. I'll enjoy polishing the bottles off over the next several days. 

@mainshipfred if you're interested, Wegman's carries several of their wines: Cab (19.99), Sauv Blanc and Rose (17.99), Isosceles (75.99), Savant (59.99), Tempranillo Reserve (49.99), and GSM (64.99). Sadly, no Viognier.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 11, 2021)

ibglowin said:


> Viognier was good. Again slightly off dry IMHO and I could detect just a hint of oak from being born and raised in an oak barrel. A little softer in texture.
> 
> I had a Viognier at Thanksgiving from WA State that was born and raised in a Nomblot concrete egg and it was amazing and yet very different than this wine.



I thought I was getting some oak on the nose, but after he mentioned the Sur lie, I figured it was more of that.


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## ibglowin (Dec 11, 2021)

Thats a pretty deep assortment of Justin wines at one store. We made a Costco run on Tuesday and they had the 2018 Justin Cab Sauv for $22.45 so for Wegman's to beat Costco in price is quite the accomplishment. I did snag a bottle of the 2018 I have to admit. Other than that I have only seen the Isosceles at a couple of places here in NM.

I think I will pick up another bottle of the Viognier and a couple other reds for the discounted price and (almost) free shipping.



Boatboy24 said:


> Wegman's carries several of their wines: Cab (19.99), Sauv Blanc and Rose (17.99), Isosceles (75.99), Savant (59.99), Tempranillo Reserve (49.99), and GSM (64.99). Sadly, no Viognier.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 11, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> @ibglowin you are probably correct. I wouldn't call any of the three wines out as even being off dry, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is some RS in there. With the Viognier, I think Jim even mentioned there was a very small amount.
> 
> Not to my surprise, with the ABV, but on all three, I initially got a little alcohol on the nose. It eventually went away. FWIW, I poured all three about 15 minutes before we started. The Viognier had been in the fridge overnight and I put the reds in my ~50 degree garage for about 45 minutes before they were opened.
> 
> ...



Maybe Total Wine for the Vio. When you get a chance I would like you to try my 2021 Vio. Not ready yet but very interesting with the high alcohol and RS.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 11, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Maybe Total Wine for the Vio. When you get a chance I would like you to try my 2021 Vio. Not ready yet but very interesting with the high alcohol and RS.



Definitely. After last night, I'm regretting some of the choices I made with the Viognier grapes we got a couple years ago. Specifically, watering back and upping the acid. While I definitely enjoy the wine, I'm thinking maybe I should've let it be. I need to make another.

Edit: No Vio at TW, but the Sauv Blanc is $14.99


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## mainshipfred (Dec 11, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Definitely. After last night, I'm regretting some of the choices I made with the Viognier grapes we got a couple years ago. Specifically, watering back and upping the acid. While I definitely enjoy the wine, I'm thinking maybe I should've let it be. I need to make another.



I though it turned out very well. If you remember Jim talking about waiting for the grapes to be phenolically ripe that is what Chrysalis told me about harvesting their Vio. It was so ripe many of the berries were orange and thus even though I pressed immediately after crush I still have an orange wine.


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## Khristyjeff (Dec 11, 2021)

How do we access the discount link Jim sent to us last night?


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## ibglowin (Dec 11, 2021)

PM sent!



Khristyjeff said:


> How do we access the discount link Jim sent to us last night?


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 11, 2021)

ibglowin said:


> PM sent!



Can you send to me as well, Mike? I neglected to copy it before we finished. Thanks!


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## ibglowin (Dec 11, 2021)

PM sent!



Boatboy24 said:


> Can you send to me as well, Mike? I neglected to copy it before we finished. Thanks!


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## Meadini (Dec 11, 2021)

I thoroughly enjoyed Jim’s presentation and learned a lot as well. Thanks @NorCal for setting that up! I particularly enjoyed the press versus free run segment. I’m glad I kept mine separate this year.


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## Chuck E (Dec 11, 2021)

A big THANK YOU to @NorCal for setting this up! The discussions last night perfectly dovetail with the thread "Making a 100 point wine." I envy the fruit that you get in California. We took the liberty of pouring a 2019 Cab & a 2019 Viognier that I made. The Justin Viognier was better than mine, so I have more to learn. My Cab was pretty much equal to theirs. My Cab grapes were frozen from Oak Knolls at Napa. Being able to select the grapes is a huge advantage to making great wine. We winemakers in the Midwest are doing a lot of good work with what we get here.


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## NorCal (Dec 11, 2021)

It was great to put some faces to Forum names. I ended up having my daughter over with our two grandsons, so we had a lot going on in the background. I enjoyed the wines, the reds were gone by the end of the night. We tasted the Vio side by side my Vio. I added some heavy RS commercial Muscat to mine to counter the acidity. My takeaway from drinking them side by side is that I over did the Muscat.

It would be nice if there were an easy way to ship wine to fellow wine makers and have a virtual tasting with each other a few times a year.


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## ibglowin (Dec 11, 2021)

"Steak Marinade" is your friend and easy to ship via UPS or FedEx!



NorCal said:


> It would be nice if there were an easy way to ship wine to fellow wine makers and have a virtual tasting with each other a few times a year.


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## Chuck E (Dec 12, 2021)

I would like to do this again using our wines.


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## David Violante (Dec 12, 2021)

@NorCal, thank you for setting this up... what a great experience. Our daughter and her boyfriend joined us as they have just finished an advanced wines class and they too found it super helpful. It tied a lot together for all of us. I'm very intrigued now with sur lie aging, and my wife and I have found a white that we like! To that end, @ibglowin would you mind sending me a PM of the code as well? 

Great comments and thoughts here! @mainshipfred I too was intrigued by Jim's thoughts on the use of yeast and that they really use other influencers on wine than yeast types. It also hit me as an 'aha' moment that they are in the business of selling wine and so make more of what people want (and a bit less of other out of the box or different ideas) while we tend to spend more effort making what we want and like. It made me think that larger volumes may have a better ability to round out the edges from the poking and prodding I try not to do, the excessive contact with air that I try not to let happen, and all the harder measuring with smaller and smaller volumes. "Ahhhh, honey.... I'm going to 'have' to make more wine and get some barrels!" 

I really liked the interaction and it was so nice to see everyone here in person. I'm looking forward to doing this again!


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## winemaker81 (Dec 12, 2021)

I had a conflict and had to miss. If we do something like this again, I'm hoping to join!



mainshipfred said:


> Another is a red or white specific yeast, how the heck does it know what it's fermenting.


Fred, ya caught me on this one. I read your question and asked myself how DOES that work? It's an excellent question.

It took a bit of thought -- the yeast doesn't know, but each strain reacts to different environments, such as a low tannin white juice vs. a high tannin red grape must. White wine yeasts are ones that thrive better in the medium of white juice, etc.


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## distancerunner (Dec 13, 2021)

A big thank you to NorCal for putting this event together. It was nice to see faces and hear voices. Especially considering that the majority of the participants are amateur makers. We should do this more often.


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## SLM (Dec 14, 2021)

I would like to say thank you as well. I enjoyed the presentation and the wine. I thought the reds were good, the Viognier was impressive. If I could offer my take and a suggestion for future events...

My main interest in this tasting was summed up in the question that was asked: How can we home winemakers step up our game and approach the quality of a successful commercial product? The answer I heard (my paraphrased version) was, "you can't". He then went on to explain some of the challenges stacked against us, like the one shot per year thing. 

Now I know regular visitors to this forum will not be daunted by such challenges. I see from your comments that you found some value in the discussion. You're able to read between the lines better than me. And maybe that's the best we can expect. But I was thinking it might be helpful if potential presenters knew in advance that we seek information that will improve our own skills. Discussions of terroir and climate are all very interesting, but I don't just want to hear about your wine, I want to improve mine! Am I asking too much?


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## winemaker81 (Dec 14, 2021)

SLM said:


> Discussions of terroir and climate are all very interesting, but I don't just want to hear about your wine, I want to improve mine! Am I asking too much?


There's a huge difference in the POV of the presenter and the POV of a home winemaker desiring to improve their wines. The presenter is presenting their wine, providing information regarding wine appreciation and pushing wine sales. Probably focusing on the latter more than the former.

Based on my own experiences with wine tastings, I don't expect the presenter to know much about grape growing and/or wine production. This avoids disappointment, although it's nice when the presenter actually knows something.

A panel discussion with successful commercial winemakers would be a better venue, assuming we can find a reason for them to join in.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 14, 2021)

SLM said:


> I would like to say thank you as well. I enjoyed the presentation and the wine. I thought the reds were good, the Viognier was impressive. If I could offer my take and a suggestion for future events...
> 
> My main interest in this tasting was summed up in the question that was asked: How can we home winemakers step up our game and approach the quality of a successful commercial product? The answer I heard (my paraphrased version) was, "you can't". He then went on to explain some of the challenges stacked against us, like the one shot per year thing.
> 
> Now I know regular visitors to this forum will not be daunted by such challenges. I see from your comments that you found some value in the discussion. You're able to read between the lines better than me. And maybe that's the best we can expect. But I was thinking it might be helpful if potential presenters knew in advance that we seek information that will improve our own skills. Discussions of terroir and climate are all very interesting, but I don't just want to hear about your wine, I want to improve mine! Am I asking too much?



I've never been to a tasting where I gleaned anything that might improve my wines - until last Friday. Granted, a lot of the information relayed to us related to things that we as home winemakers just can't do. But it's good to know where our hands are tied and where we might do things to simulate or replace what the big guys are doing. That's what prompted my question about multiple yeasts. Fred has got me really interested in that after tasting some of his wines both before and after 'blending' where the only thing he changed was the yeast. Tasting them separately was almost like sampling completely different wines at times. That's an area worth exploring, in my opinion. It was interesting to learn from Jim that they just don't do that. They want a simple, reliable ferment, but are using grapes from 40 different growers on their Cab. That's huge potential for complexity that we'll never have. 

But you bring up an interesting point: wouldn't it be fun to have a zoom call with a Tim Vandergrift, or Daniel Pambiachi (not that we could actually make that happen, but let's pretend)? I'm a member on a BBQ/Grilling forum that has done that in the past - not on Zoom, but general Q&A where someone would join for a week and answer questions from members.


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## NorCal (Dec 15, 2021)

I’m fortunate to have relationships with 6 or so local commercial winemakers, making very respectable wines. I‘ve had these discussions and @4score and I took two of them out to lunch to discuss this very topic.

There are many little things that can be done, that cumulatively can significantly improve home made wines. All the ones I know of are listed on this thread . The wines I’ve made the last three years are much better than the wines I’ve made in the past.


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## ibglowin (Dec 15, 2021)

This event was never billed as being an event to help us make/improve our own individual winemaking processes. They did know we are all winemakers yes but the speaker was not the winemaker nor had he even made any wine in years. He was a however a very experienced Somm. In order to do something like that we would need to recruit an actual commercial winemaker with the time, talents and enough commercial wine that is not only available but also affordable enough to attract a large enough crowd from this forum to make it worthwhile.

I just don't see that ever happening as most smaller commercial/boutique wineries in the area charge at least $40-$70 for a single bottle of wine without shipping added.

We literally have thousands of members on this forum and could only muster enough interest to sign up ~ 20 parties at an average bottle price of $35 shipped. Justin Winery produces approximately 300,000 cases annually now.


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## SLM (Dec 15, 2021)

Yeah well I guess I'm looking for a magic charm that doesn't exist. I'm only a year into this and I'm trying to fast track to an advanced level without putting in the time. Problem is I'm getting on the old side and may not live long enough to be a good winemaker. I read a lot of good advice on this site, much of which I have yet to implement. Appreciate all the help I can get.


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## NorCal (Dec 15, 2021)

SLM said:


> Yeah well I guess I'm looking for a magic charm that doesn't exist. I'm only a year into this and I'm trying to fast track to an advanced level without putting in the time. Problem is I'm getting on the old side and may not live long enough to be a good winemaker. I read a lot of good advice on this site, much of which I have yet to implement. Appreciate all the help I can get.


Just my opinion. 

I found there are fundamentals (good fruit, sanitation, clean ferments, proper storage) that someone starting out can understand and execute to make wine that is just fine to drink (say $5- $12) bottle of wine. After that it is an accumulation of a number of actions that cummulatively raise the quality of the wine to the point it could be blind tasted against higher priced wines ($15-$30). Making wine that would stand up blind against 90+ (wine advocate, wine spectator) is truely a feat and there are plenty of professional winemakers that fail to achieve this in their careers. 

The biggest factors that make it difficult for the home winemaker (which was mentioned during the call) is access to fruit, ability to make picking decision, temperature control and most importantly knowledge and experience.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 15, 2021)

SLM said:


> Yeah well I guess I'm looking for a magic charm that doesn't exist.


The most effective way to become a good winemaker is exactly what you're doing. Read, research, and discuss. There's no rushing this -- a lot depends on how you assimilate information and learn from previous actions. Add to that the seasonal / yearly cycle of fruit, and the need to use the highest quality fruit (which is rarely available).

IMO, focus on the best wine you can make today. Improve tomorrow's wine with what you learn and experience. Repeat the cycle as long as you can.


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## ibglowin (Dec 15, 2021)

Happiness in life is all about the journey. Not the final destination. Make the best wine you can with the time and tools you have. Enjoy it every chance you can with friends and family.



SLM said:


> Problem is I'm getting on the old side and may not live long enough to be a good winemaker.


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## Chuck E (Dec 16, 2021)

ibglowin said:


> This event was never billed as being an event to help us make/improve our own individual winemaking processes. They did know we are all winemakers yes but the speaker was not the winemaker nor had he even made any wine in years. He was a however a very experienced Somm.



I used the event to "meet" the other 19 folks who are active on this blog, and collectively enjoy a wine tasting of a good wine. I wanted to understand how the Justin wine is crafted as a part of tasting & enjoying it. I took the liberty of opening some of my similar wines to taste with the Justins. I was pleasantly surprised that the quality of my wine was near the quality of the Justins. 

The quality of the fruit at harvest is paramount to making a 90+ point wine. I always envy the winemakers here, who have access to the vineyards. 
Still, I strive to make the best wine from the sources available to me. 

I would be pleased if we can make this a regular event. Thanks again to all participants!


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