# A 2020 Cab Franc journey with fellow WMT member



## NorCal (May 27, 2020)

In one of @crushday ’s posts, he mentioned that he drove to 10 hours to Livermore CA to pick up juice buckets. I think crushday’s posts are some of the best, always enthusiastic and frequently include pictures. I was impressed with the dedication to his winemaking and thought if he would drive 10 hours for juice buckets, why not 11 hours for some fresh, commercial quality grapes?

I help manage a 20 acre vineyard for our community and threw out the offer For Cab Franc and we’ve been chatting since. It looks like it’s going to come together. I thought it would be a fun thread to chronicle this year‘s journey and I asked crushday if he would mind, so I started this thread.

This will be my 6th vintage of Cab Franc. My plan is to use it as a blender this year in a Merlot heavy Bordeaux blend. I will get 300-500 pounds, enough for 20-30 gallons. The plan is to have the grapes harvested together at night, run the grapes through my destemmer first thing in the morning and crushday makes the trek back home.


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## Ajmassa (May 27, 2020)

Just smashed that “_Watch Thread_” tab.


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## crushday (May 27, 2020)

I CAN NOT WAIT for this road trip. @NorCal very generously invited me to piggy back on his grape order. It was an easy decision to accept this kind offer.


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## sour_grapes (May 27, 2020)

I'm excited to see this, too! I am a big fan of Cab Franc, at least for vinifera in the east. I have never had a Cali single-variety CF, but sounds good to try!


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## Ignoble Grape (May 29, 2020)

Pics! Commentary! More!


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## ibglowin (May 29, 2020)

Congratulations! You are now (or will be this Fall) a member of a VERY exclusive club of WMT winemakers willing to drive a great distance for this hobby/obsession!


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## Kraffty (May 29, 2020)

Following too. Where are you headed for the pick up? I'm considering a run to Fresno for grapes this year but having a hard time convincing myself to do it. Approx 11 hours each way.
Go get um.....


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## crushday (May 29, 2020)

@Kraffty I'm headed to Metro Sacramento from Seattle Metro - 11 hours each way. Come on! September road trip!!


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## Kraffty (May 29, 2020)

Got nothing else to do right? you drive another 1.5 hours south and I'll drive another 1.5 hours north and we can have lunch at A&W or dairy queen in beautiful downtown Modesto........


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## NorCal (May 29, 2020)

We sell out almost every year to local wineries. This year we've had a few wineries not order due to the drop in tasting room sales. The price will be $.50-$.75 per pound (haven't locked down pricing yet), harvested in your bin. There will be plenty of gapes available.


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## Boatboy24 (May 29, 2020)

NorCal said:


> We sell out almost every year to local wineries. This year we've had a few wineries not order due to the drop in tasting room sales. The price will be $.50-$.75 per pound (haven't locked down pricing yet), harvested in your bin. There will be plenty of gapes available.



At those prices, it's almost worth me driving from here!


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## NorCal (Jun 6, 2020)

Vines going through the final suckering pass. Healthy and looks like there will be plenty of fruit.


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## CDrew (Jun 6, 2020)

I am hoping to get 1/2 ton of these grapes too. Going to share with 2 other winemakers, and for one of them it will be his first wine ever. He's a new guy at my work. Coming up a bit short in the Macrobin department though. Is that going to be a problem? If they can be picked into one of those macrobins, then crushed and after crush into the usual Brutes for transport home?

I'd also like to put the grapes through your Crusher/Stemmer if that's an option, and will try and coordinate when you are crushing too. It would be fun to meet @crushday as well. Thinking about the road trip back to Seattle-You'll run that at night I assume to keep things cool?

I thought macrobins would be more available on Craigslist, but so far, no bueno. I keep looking and maybe 1 will come up.

Your merlot row is looking great! Looking forward to harvest and Vintage 2020.


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## crushday (Jun 6, 2020)

It will great to meet you too, @CDrew! I’ve been considering how to get home. Dry ice? My truck has a built in inverter so I could bring a chest freezer but I don’t have one. I think maybe I could get one of those rent to own places and return it after a week.

Going to be a blast!


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## NorCal (Jun 6, 2020)

The plan is to have the crew harvest at night, so the grapes are available by 9am. I have a few macro bins, so if you can’t find one, I should be able to cover you. Hopefully I won’t have my Merlot fermenting at that time. I’ll have my destemmer/crusher available after we weigh the grapes out. We will definitely need to swap some wine, so bring some bottles.


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## CDrew (Jun 7, 2020)

NorCal said:


> We will definitely need to swap some wine, so bring some bottles.



Will do, that's the best part. I'll have plenty of Brutes to transport and maybe a Macrobin depending on what comes up.

To get back to Seattle, that's a 12 hour drive or so, so leave at 6pm, home by 6 am. Easy. Dry ice works really well for transport. Dump in 10 pounds and it will stay acceptable all the way home, driving at night. Take extra in a cooler to add more part way through. But driving up the I-5 in daytime risks some really hot temps, so you'll want to mitigate that. Either with Dry ice, or enclosed in some way. I think I'd just drive in the dark.


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## crushday (Aug 8, 2020)

Hey, quick question (below). I ordered bunch of stuff for this trip and it has been steadily coming in. One of the items was two packs of CH16 for the malolactic fermentation. I ’thought‘ I was still waiting for it but I found it this morning tucked in a carboy box that has been sitting in my garage for about 10 days. The Ch16 itself was in a metallic bubble pouch and my garage is climate controlled and stays about 68 degrees.

Is the bacteria ok?


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## ibglowin (Aug 8, 2020)

As long as it not opened it is still good.


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## CDrew (Aug 8, 2020)

@crushday are you working toward an approximate date? I'm hoping for September 12 or 13. Obviously ripe grapes get there at their own speed. I'm in AK until 9/11. I really want to make this work. I've asked @NorCal to have 1000 pounds for me. It will be nice to get together at a distance!

And BTW-Macrobins are scarce on Craig'slist. I have looked every day all summer. I may have to break down and buy a new one but brutes are much easier to store!


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## crushday (Aug 8, 2020)

@CDrew I'm positioning my schedule to be very flexible. I have some CE credits I need to get done this fall so I'll be scheduling those beginning in September. Because they are picking at night, I'm making the massive assumption that someone will call me and say we can pick up the grapes on morning X. I'll drive the day before, hit a hotel for the night, pick up the grapes and head home so I can drive through the night. Also, I'm hoping we can carve out some time to get together, swap some wine and get to know each other. I'll be wearing my Seahawks mask...

I have the CH16 in my freezer...

My 59 gallon barrel arrived yesterday. Dang, that thing is massive...


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## Snafflebit (Aug 9, 2020)

CDrew said:


> And BTW-Macrobins are scarce on Craig'slist. I have looked every day all summer. I may have to break down and buy a new one but brutes are much easier to store!



I hope to someday get to the macrobin scale of winemaking. How do you move around that much fruit in a garage setting. Or get it off the truck?


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## cmason1957 (Aug 9, 2020)

Snafflebit said:


> I hope to someday get to the macrobin scale of winemaking. How do you move around that much fruit in a garage setting. Or get it off the truck?


With a fork lift. In other words, not in your garage.


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## knockabout (Aug 9, 2020)

Snafflebit said:


> I hope to someday get to the macrobin scale of winemaking. How do you move around that much fruit in a garage setting. Or get it off the truck?


I wondered the same thing... thought everyone Else must Be really strong!


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## NorCal (Aug 9, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> With a fork lift. In other words, not in your garage.


 I have them load the macrobins in the truck, we then use a pitch fork, down a chute into the crusher, right into another bin. Goes pretty quick.
My record is 4 macro bins in the garage , two tons of grapes. I took a $11 furniture dolly from Harbor Freight and extended it to fit the macro bin, so I could move them around. That was too much fermenting for the space, as the CO2 produced required I open the garage doors to let some oxygen in.


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## NorCal (Aug 9, 2020)

CDrew said:


> @crushday are you working toward an approximate date? I'm hoping for September 12 or 13. Obviously ripe grapes get there at their own speed. I'm in AK until 9/11. I really want to make this work. I've asked @NorCal to have 1000 pounds for me. It will be nice to get together at a distance!
> 
> And BTW-Macrobins are scarce on Craig'slist. I have looked every day all summer. I may have to break down and buy a new one but brutes are much easier to store!



@CDrew The Cab Franc has come in the second or third week in September the past few years. I think after 9/11 will be safe. I measured the vines yesterday and they were at 17 brix, so still way to go.

@crushday we will be in communication and you should have a weeks notice. We will pick yours, CDrew, mine and the Sac Home Winemakers grapes that same day. It will be a Saturday morning pick up, usually by 9am and I’ll figure out how to power my destemmer on the pick-up pad.


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## Ajmassa (Aug 9, 2020)

CDrew said:


> @crushday nd BTW-Macrobins are scarce on Craig'slist. I have looked every day all summer. I may have to break down and buy a new one but brutes are much easier to store!



check this website




__





Used Equipment


Classifieds listings for the wine industry




www.winebusiness.com





im seeing lots bins listed on there. Potentially some are close enough


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## NorCal (Aug 27, 2020)

Saturday is the day! Brix are hovering around 25 in the vineyard @crushday 's grapes will be coming from. Crushday is coming down the night before. His 1,200 pounds of Cab Franc, we will be picked into macrobins, then crushed on site into his Brutes. He will then transport the crushed grapes in his vehicle 10 hours back home. It will be a hectic day, as there are 12 pick-ups that same morning :O


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 27, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Saturday is the day! Brix are hovering around 25 in the vineyard @crushday 's grapes will be coming from. Crushday is coming down the night before. His 1,200 pounds of Cab Franc, we will be picked into macrobins, then crushed on site into his Brutes. He will then transport the crushed grapes in his vehicle 10 hours back home. It will be a hectic day, as there are 12 pick-ups that same morning :O



Pics, or it never happened!!


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## stickman (Aug 27, 2020)

Yea, I think @crushday needs to have one of those GoPro's strapped to the side of his head!


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## crushday (Aug 27, 2020)

Coming late to the party here... I’m leaving in the morning and will be staying in Roseville at the Marriott. Just a hop, skip and a jump to the vineyard. 

Looking forward to a full Saturday!!! Thanks for everything @NorCal @CDrew and @stickman


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## CDrew (Aug 27, 2020)

You guys have a great time. I'll catch up with @NorCal after 9/11. Hopefully some grapes left then!

@crushday, sorry I'll miss meeting you. Enjoy your trip.


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## crushday (Aug 27, 2020)

Ordered six white brutes in July and only three have come in to date. I think I have enough Brutes for this trip either way.

On a side note, my bladder press arrived today. I’ll be using it soon...


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 27, 2020)

You're going to have to slow down the winemaking, @crushday , so you can get your focus back to pizza!


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## crushday (Aug 27, 2020)

CDrew said:


> You guys have a great time. I'll catch up with @NorCal after 9/11. Hopefully some grapes left then!
> 
> @crushday, sorry I'll miss meeting you. Enjoy your trip.


CDrew - enjoy ‘ska... As much as I’m going to enjoy this trip I’m jealous where you’ll be. Until next time...


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## CDrew (Aug 27, 2020)

crushday said:


> CDrew - enjoy ‘ska... As much as I’m going to enjoy this trip I’m jealous where you’ll be. Until next time...



Yep. Alaska is special. This is my 18th year in a row going there and I hope I have another 18. Many years like this one, we go twice. Sockeye in July and Coho in September.

Pizza and wine is such a great complimentary thing, that I want more pics.

But the white fermenters are a great idea and very easy to establish "clean and sanitized" It's much easier to see that all the surface residual stuff is cleaned off after the fermentation is over.

I totally wish I could get these grapes this weekend, but just not happening. Enjoy your visit to Northern California.


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## NorCal (Aug 29, 2020)

The stage is set! We are harvesting Petite Sirah and then 3.5 tons for local and one distant winemaker. Looking forward to it. There will be some of the best local home winemakers there, should be hectic but fun.


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## Kraffty (Aug 29, 2020)

Really enjoying the posts @NorCal keep them coming and have a great few days!


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## NorCal (Aug 29, 2020)

Done deal! I really wish @crushday and I could have gotten together the night before, drank some wine and talk wine making. But, George showed up early, grapes were still coming in from the field. He was first in line for the crusher and was on the road with his 1,200 pounds of Cab Franc by 10:30 or so.

We traded some wine, so I hope he will share honest reviews.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

After the nearly 11 hour drive, I got home at approximately 9:15pm. Grapes traveled well. I did go through one hot stretch when the outside temperature got as high as 94 degrees. Other than that, I was mostly in the mid to high 80s until I dropped into Washington. The temp was 60 at my house. The high at my house only got up to 70 as Mrs. Crushday said we had a marine system that hovered all day.

Thanks again @NorCal for the very generous offer to jump in on the grapes. He (and his neighbors) has an enviable thing going on in the neighborhood. Everyone has a small vineyard at their home and they have the community space full of grapes. Amazing... I bet they have amazing block parties!

Beginning today I'll document the process, each step, until I move to secondary. Then, periodically as necessry.

And, yes, pictures too...

But, a few from yesterday...


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

NorCal said:


> We traded some wine, so I hope he will share honest reviews.


Thanks for the wine. I was actually tempted to open the 2017 last night, consider the spoils of the weekend while sipping, and relaxing before I got ready for bed. Bottle Shock kept me from that plan. But, I'll try them soon and yes, provide honest reviews. I'm certain they'll be amazing and serve as a grand example of what my haul might become.


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## VinesnBines (Aug 30, 2020)

How many Brutes did you need for 1200 lb crushed? They are 44 gallon Brutes? Did you use any dry ice ori regular ice?


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> How many Brutes did you need for 1200 lb crushed? They are 44 gallon Brutes? Did you use any dry ice ori regular ice?


@VinenBines - really great questions and ones I did't know how to answer before the trip. I intended on using dry ice but elected to find and purchase some locally. However, I visited 4 stores and none of them had dry ice. So, I had no choice by to take my chances on the way home. It worked out just fine. I brought six brutes and only used 4, ultimately. Four 44 gallon Brutes are filled to the top line. I did have about 10 gallons in a fifth Brute on the way home that I consolidated to the other four this morning.

Here's a pic...


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## JamesdNorcal (Aug 30, 2020)

Thanks NorCal! 

My wife and I had a great time at the Cab Franc crush yesterday, this is our first year making wine. Having the crusher/de-destemmer right there sure beats hand crushing them at home.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

Looking for some help...I'm really outpaced by naiveté right now.

I have four 44 gallon Brutes full of must. I just ran some initial readings:

#1 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity 1.103)
#2 Brute: pH is 4.12 (gravity is 1.104)
#3 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity is 1.102)
#4 Brute: pH is 3.96 (gravity 1.104)

Do I want to add TA? If so, how much per Brute. Each has 35 gallons of must.

Thanks in advance.


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## VinesnBines (Aug 30, 2020)

Thanks so much @crushday for the volume numbers. I’m planning on 300 lbs each of Cab Franc, PV, and Cab Sav. I have four 32 gallon Brutes which is plenty if the grapes come in far enough apart. I expect I’ll need a couple to be safe.


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## stickman (Aug 30, 2020)

If it were me, I would be dropping the pH to 3.6, but you may want to wait for @NorCal to respond as he has experience with the vineyard. If you chicken out, you can always adjust one of the brutes and see how it compares to the others once fermentation is complete.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

stickman said:


> If it were me, I would be dropping the pH to 3.6, but you may want to wait for @NorCal to respond as he has experience with the vineyard. If you chicken out, you can always adjust one of the brutes and see how it compares to the others once fermentation is complete.


Stickman, good idea on adjusting one Brute, perhaps. 

Question: Is the overall goal to have a pH of 3.6, meaning I can get there eventually? In other words, when is the best time to lower the pH. Now, throughout or just before the barrel? Does timing, in this case make a difference?

By the way, I also checked the temp of the must. I'm at 67 degrees so I pitched the yeast a few minutes ago: Avante.

I also added k-meta yesterday (1/4 tsp per 5 gallons of must = 50ppm).

Anything else?


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

JamesdNorcal said:


> Thanks NorCal!
> 
> My wife and I had a great time at the Cab Franc crush yesterday, this is our first year making wine. Having the crusher/de-destemmer right there sure beats hand crushing them at home.


James, did we meet yesterday? If so, help me remember...


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 30, 2020)

crushday said:


> Stickman, good idea on adjusting one Brute, perhaps.
> 
> Question: Is the overall goal to have a pH of 3.6, meaning I can get there eventually? In other words, when is the best time to lower the pH. Now, throughout or just before the barrel? Does timing, in this case make a difference?
> 
> ...



If possible, it's preferred to adjust up front. Two reasons: 1) I think the consensus is that the acid integrates better, 2) getting the pH down now will make the wine less hospitable for bad bugs until you can safely add KMeta.


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## JamesdNorcal (Aug 30, 2020)

Hi Crushday, probably not at least. We came towards the end, might have just missed you. and only got 100lbs, couple of buckets. I’ve been dealing with my home 90 barbera vines, 1st year they had grapes. 250lbs. Doing it all by hand..

My barbera is kinda the opposite on the PH. I had 26 brix, same as the cab franc. But my PH was 2.97 vs my readings on the cab franc PH came out to 3.82. I‘m wondering the same if I should add some tartaric acid to bring the ph down to 3.5-3.6?? (My barbera PH is up to 3.22 now after fermentation.)

Cheers, James


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## CDrew (Aug 30, 2020)

crushday said:


> #1 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity 1.103)
> #2 Brute: pH is 4.12 (gravity is 1.104)
> #3 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity is 1.102)
> #4 Brute: pH is 3.96 (gravity 1.104)



Yes, but what's your starting TA?

I did some adjusting after fermentation last year with good results, so I don't think you have to get all the way to 3.6, but I would try and move it the majority of how far you want to go now.

For instance if your TA (not pH) is 4, I'd be comfortable adding 2g/L of finished wine and rechecking. The rate of pH response to this is not linear in my experience. You can always add a bit more to touch it up. IT's easy to do the numbers since is really is grams per liter. I hope you have a lot of tartaric acid on hand!

Dang, I'm feeling left out!

THat's a lot of wine. Best wishes and best of luck.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> If possible, it's preferred to adjust up front. Two reasons: 1) I think the consensus is that the acid integrates better, 2) getting the pH down now will make the wine less hospitable for bad bugs until you can safely add KMeta.


Jim, certainly don't want to mess this up with over compensation. Can you help me calculate how much TA to add on the conservative? I can always add more...

Looking at the MoreWine FAQ's, here's some info I read: 

_"1 level teaspoon Tartaric Acid per US Gallon raises TA by +1.2 g/L (0.12%) 

1 tsp Tartaric acid = 5 grams." _

Honestly, I don't know how much 5gm (1sp) of TA lowers 1 US gallon if my pH is 4.0 as an example.

I have a scale too so I can weigh the amount of TA.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

CDrew said:


> Yes, but what's your starting TA?



Drew, I don't know the starting TA or even how to test for that. I have a Vinmetrica 300 - do I use that to test?

Feeling like a super noob right now...

Hope you're enjoying your fishing trip.


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## CDrew (Aug 30, 2020)

You can use just a pH meter and a stock solution of NaOH. Don’t instructions and chemicals come with the sc300?


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 30, 2020)

crushday said:


> Jim, certainly don't want to mess this up with over compensation. Can you help me calculate how much TA to add on the conservative? I can always add more...
> 
> Looking at the MoreWine FAQ's, here's some info I read:
> 
> ...



Do you have a scale? It would be preferable to go by weight instead of teaspoons, but that would certainly work in a pinch. 

General rule I use is 1g per liter (of estimated finished wine) will lower pH by 0.1. It isn't exact, and I often err on the conservative side and add half the calculated amount. You can always retest and adjust further.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

CDrew said:


> You can use just a pH meter and a stock solution of NaOH. Don’t instructions and chemicals come with the sc300?


Lol... Clearly, I’m not technical. Some people geek out with all this stuff. For me, it’s a necessary task. Sounds like I have some homework to do as I have a significant investment sitting in four Brutes!


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## JamesdNorcal (Aug 30, 2020)

here’s how I calc the TA.

1. Calibrate PH meter
2. Draw 10ML juice to tube/beaker
3. Add in .1n sodium hydroxide until PH =8.20
4. TA calc is ML of sodium hydroxide divide by ML of juice X .75..

for example, if it took 15ml sodium hydroxide to get to 8.20, the TA =15/10x.75 =1.125% TA


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## CDrew (Aug 30, 2020)

This kind of runs through it. I do the titration with a burette not a syringe but either will work.



If you use the more general calculation, any amount of starting juice is fine.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> Do you have a scale? It would be preferable to go by weight instead of teaspoons, but that would certainly work in a pinch.
> 
> General rule I use is 1g per liter (of estimated finished wine) will lower pH by 0.1. It isn't exact, and I often err on the conservative side and add half the calculated amount. You can always retest and adjust further.


Yes, I have a scale. I’ll half of the estimated TA on the finished with estimate.

Ok, here's my math (before I pull the trigger):

35 gallons of must = 27 gallons of finished wine (free run and pressed)
27 gallons of finished wine = 102 liters
pH is currently 4.05 (mean average all four Brutes)
Adding 200gm (.44 pound) of TA should lower pH to 3.85, which is halfway to goal (this is per Brute).

Here's my scale and TA at 200gm...


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## CDrew (Aug 30, 2020)

So I read through the SC300 stuff. It should have come with chemicals in a concentration that makes the calcs even easier. If not, just the pH meter will do fine.

You really want to know your start point if possible. If you have a local wine lab that would work too. You have enough wine that spending $40 on testing is well worth it.

You could also ask @NorCal who has likely done this measurement already.

Leave for AK in the morning. I'll wave as we fly over seattle.

Like I said the response is not strictly linear.


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## JamesdNorcal (Aug 30, 2020)

Crushday - for what it’s worth by cab franc batch is PH 3.82 and I calc’d the TA at .58%.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 30, 2020)

I always cringe a little when seeing how much TA I'm about to add. But (knocking on wood), I've not overshot yet. Measure, add, mix, mix, mix. Then measure again and see where you are. 

PS: There are some good videos out there on using the Vinmetrica for pH, TA and SO2.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> I always cringe a little when seeing how much TA I'm about to add. But (knocking on wood), I've not overshot yet. Measure, add, mix, mix, mix. Then measure again and see where you are.
> 
> PS: There are some good videos out there on using the Vinmetrica for pH, TA and SO2.


Thanks, Jim. Since I’m a visual learner, videos are extremely helpful!


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 30, 2020)

crushday said:


> Thanks, Jim. Since I’m a visual learner, videos are extremely helpful!



I use those videos just about every time I break out the Vinmetrica. They are on the Vinmetrica site.


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## NorCal (Aug 30, 2020)

crushday said:


> Looking for some help...I'm really outpaced by naiveté right now.
> 
> I have four 44 gallon Brutes full of must. I just ran some initial readings:
> 
> ...


Sorry, out picking Merlot grapes all morning. Welcome to warm climate grapes, always ripens, but lacks acidity. (The reason our grapes are $1,500 per ton vs. $8,000+ per ton in Napa). I add 1 pound (450 grams) of tartaric per 1,000 pounds of grapes. It moves the pH by .2-.3 At 300 pounds per Brute, that would be 135 grams per brute. This will not get you to 3.65, but I’ve been reticent to adjust more than that and I’m comfortable with 3.7-3.8 pH wines.


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## NorCal (Aug 30, 2020)

JamesdNorcal said:


> Thanks NorCal!
> 
> My wife and I had a great time at the Cab Franc crush yesterday, this is our first year making wine. Having the crusher/de-destemmer right there sure beats hand crushing them at home.


My pleasure James, it was good meeting you and hope your Cab Franc goes well.


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## CDrew (Aug 30, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Welcome to warm climate grapes. I add 1 pound of tartaric per 1,000 pounds.



Just some rough back of the napkin calcs, that's 70 gallons of wine, thats 264L so 1.7 grams per liter. Sounds about right.


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## crushday (Aug 30, 2020)

Cab Franc label...


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## NorCal (Aug 31, 2020)

Lab results from the CF yesterday:


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## CDrew (Aug 31, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Lab results from the CF yesterday:
> 
> View attachment 65352




ANy commentary? Is this pretty typical?

It stands out to me that the TA looks low as does the YAN. ANd the pH is BETTER than I would have expected.

For those with more experience-If I were looking at these numbers, I'd likely add 3g/l of Tartaric acid, based on the projected amount of finished wine. Does that sound ballpark right?

And what will be your feeding schedule?


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## crushday (Aug 31, 2020)

I have a very active ferment. This morning the cap wasn’t nearly as formed. Tonight, very organized...

Exciting times!


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## stickman (Aug 31, 2020)

It is nice to have the numbers from a lab. The malic acid is relatively low and the titratable acidity is also low, so adding tartaric acid to a 3.6 pH shouldn't be a problem. Most of the acid will probably drop out during fermentation.

The YAN I believe should be 121ppm (71+50); that's still fairly low. I would say 2g of Fermaid K per gallon of estimated finished wine , and that may be enough, but if it were me, I would also add about 2g/gal DAP, that gets you to about 300ppm YAN total. As usual split up and add in two or three portions before 10 brix.


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## JamesdNorcal (Aug 31, 2020)

With the acid so low, should I not introduce the MLB? I was thinking of CH16 but maybe no need now?


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## stickman (Aug 31, 2020)

It's winemaker's choice, I always go through ML, I don't want it to happen in bottle.


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## JamesdNorcal (Aug 31, 2020)

Makes sense, I agree.. I did add about 2g/l of Tartaric acid after crush. Hopefully that helps, my PH is down to 3.6 now. Haven’t bothered to check the acid.


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## BI81 (Aug 31, 2020)

stickman said:


> It is nice to have the numbers from a lab. The malic acid is relatively low and the titratable acidity is also low, so adding tartaric acid to a 3.6 pH shouldn't be a problem. Most of the acid will probably drop out during fermentation.
> 
> The YAN I believe should be 121ppm (71+50); that's still fairly low. I would say 2g of Fermaid K per gallon of estimated finished wine , and that may be enough, but if it were me, I would also add about 2g/gal DAP, that gets you to about 300ppm YAN total. As usual split up and add in two or three portions before 10 brix.



@stickman would you mind giving some details on how you calc YAN requirements? I’ve had it on my list to research for a while, but there just aren’t enough hours in the day lately.


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## CDrew (Aug 31, 2020)

crushday said:


> I have a very active ferment. This morning the cap wasn’t nearly as formed. Tonight, very organized...



Looks great. How about some details? Yeast, MLB, feeding program, brix, etc.

And, did you pitch before the drive home, or wait until complete?


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## crushday (Aug 31, 2020)

CDrew said:


> Looks great. How about some details? Yeast, MLB, feeding program, brix, etc.
> 
> And, did you pitch before the drive home, or wait until complete?


All good questions... For the ride home I used EX-V and mixed in some kmeta to get to 50ppm. When I got home 11 hours later, I parked in the garage and turned in. Also, I left the garage overhead doors open so I could cool the must with the cold atmospheric air which was 59 degrees when I arrived. The next morning I used a ramp and got all the Brutes on to the floor and started taking readings.

One of the readings was temp. It was 67 degrees so I pitched the yeast - Avante - fearing a perfect atmosphere for microbes. I also added GoFerm and some sacrificial tannins. I questioned the tannins (added them anyway) since there was a few more stems presented in the must than I’m used to seeing. Note: This is my first experience with fresh grapes.

I added enough TA to get the must down to 3.8. And, I pitched the CH16 tonight. Brix (SG) is an average of 1.103 at yeast pitch.

I’ll be performing the secondary fermentation in a 79.3 gallon Speidel plastic storage tank. If I have extra wine, I’ll perform secondary in carboys and/or gallon jugs.

Feeding program? I’m open to suggestions...


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## Johnd (Sep 1, 2020)

crushday said:


> All good questions... For the ride home I used EX-V and mixed in some kmeta to get to 50ppm. When I got home 11 hours later, I parked in the garage and turned in. Also, I left the garage overhead doors open so I could cool the must with the cold atmospheric air which was 59 degrees when I arrived. The next morning I used a ramp and got all the Brutes on to the floor and started taking readings.
> 
> One of the readings was temp. It was 67 degrees so I pitched the yeast - Avante - fearing a perfect atmosphere for microbes. I also added GoFerm and some sacrificial tannins. I questioned the tannins (added them anyway) since there was a few more stems presented in the must than I’m used to seeing. Note: This is my first experience with fresh grapes.
> 
> ...



What about MLB? I’m assuming you are planning MLF, 50 ppm sulfite on perfectly good grapes is really rolling the dice......


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## crushday (Sep 1, 2020)

Johnd said:


> What about MLB? I’m assuming you are planning MLF, 50 ppm sulfite on perfectly good grapes is really rolling the dice......


MLB - I'm lost in a sea of acronyms. No idea what that is - can I phone a friend? If it's malolactic bacteria, I used CH16 - co-inoculated 36 hours after yeast pitch. Also, it was my impression that 50ppm on the SO2 was relatively standard. If not, please correct as I don't want to ruin good wine with poor adjunct management.

Remember, I'm young in the craft...and, a hungry learner.


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## ibglowin (Sep 1, 2020)

MLB = Malo Lactic Bacteria



crushday said:


> MLB - I'm lost in a sea of acronyms. No idea what that is - can I phone a friend? If it's malolactic bacteria, I used CH16. Also, it was my impression that 50ppm on the SO2 was relatively standard. If not, please correct as I don't want to ruin good wine with poor adjunct management.
> 
> Remember, I'm young in the craft...and, a hungry learner.


----------



## cmason1957 (Sep 1, 2020)

crushday said:


> MLB - I'm lost in a sea of acronyms. No idea what that is - can I phone a friend? If it's malolactic bacteria, I used CH16 - co-inoculated 36 hours after yeast pitch. Also, it was my impression that 50ppm on the SO2 was relatively standard. If not, please correct as I don't want to ruin good wine with poor adjunct management.
> 
> Remember, I'm young in the craft...and, a hungry learner.



MLB = Malolactic Bacteria. If I have good grapes, as in none or very few raisins or bad looking grapes and I plan to do MLF, then I will go light, to no K-Meta at crush time. Particularly, if I am going to co-inoculate. I want to give the MLB every chance it can to work. With CH16, you are probably going to be okay, but it really is a probably.


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## CDrew (Sep 1, 2020)

To reassure @crushday, ive added 50ppm followed a day or 2 later with ch16 with no issues. You’re good. I’m in Seattle right now. Good luck!


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## mainshipfred (Sep 1, 2020)

Sounds right to me, there are always different approaches. Personally if the grapes are in good shape I would usually skip the sulfites but 50 ppm is a very well accepted practice. The only thing I might have recommended would have been to use more than one yeast but that's just me.


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## NorCal (Sep 1, 2020)

@crushday you may have gotten the 50 ppm SO2 addition during crush from me, which is my standard protocol. I usually opt for sequential mlf, versus co-inoculation. If I were doing co-inoculation I would do less SO2 or none, depending on the quality of the grapes.

The biggest reason I wait to do MLF after alcoholic fermentation (AF) has been completed, is that it takes a few months longer for the MLF to complete. Having the wine protected by the CO2 generated during MLF for those two months avoids an SO2 addition, which when you see how much SO2 will be necessary to manage a higher pH wine, you will appreciate.

Another note, it will be interesting to track your pH. I have had some wines that no matter what I did, it would came back really close to my original pH number. You will be tempted to adjust acid post ferment. I simply wouldn't do it or if you did be very, very careful. While you can throw a pound of tartaric acid in the must pre-ferment, even 10% of that post ferment could make the wine undrinkable. A fellow home winemaker (won't name names) threw out an entire vintage due to adjusting acid post ferment to a number.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 1, 2020)

Envious of that full test panel from the lab!
(Yeah I know I _could_ but would be overkill for a smaller scale solo act like myself).

Curious if any of you are basing your nutrient regimen/dosage specifically to the YAN? And if so what is your protocol? 
I know that when yan is in healthy range it’s the standard dosages. For me that’s FermK 1g/gal. 1 full dose at start. 1 dose whenever I catch it near the middle. (Also see it written as 1/2 dose & 1/2dose.)

I ask b/c I think 112mg/L YAN falls under that “ideal” range and wondering if you guys account for that or if you’ve found it’s not necessary to be that particular with it.


NorCal said:


> Lab results from the CF yesterday:
> 
> View attachment 65352


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## crushday (Sep 1, 2020)

NorCal said:


> @crushday you may have gotten the 50 ppm SO2 addition during crush from me, which is my standard protocol. I usually opt for sequential mlf, versus co-inoculation. If I were doing co-inoculation I would do less SO2 or none, depending on the quality of the grapes.
> 
> The biggest reason I wait to do MLF after alcoholic fermentation (AF) has been completed, is that it takes a few months longer for the MLF to complete. Having the wine protected by the CO2 generated during MLF for those two months avoids an SO2 addition, which when you see how much SO2 will be necessary to manage a higher pH wine, you will appreciate.
> 
> Another note, it will be interesting to track your pH. I have had some wines that no matter what I did, it would came back really close to my original pH number. You will be tempted to adjust acid post ferment. I simply wouldn't do it or if you did be very, very careful. While you can throw a pound of tartaric acid in the must pre-ferment, even 10% of that post ferment could make the wine undrinkable. A fellow home winemaker (won't name names) threw out an entire vintage due to adjusting acid post ferment to a number.


NorCal, this is profoundly helpful. THANK YOU!!


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## Johnd (Sep 1, 2020)

crushday said:


> NorCal, this is profoundly helpful. THANK YOU!!


Nuff said by the others, right on track.


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## crushday (Sep 2, 2020)

In the throws of fermentation - starting to smell really great. 

@NorCal and @JamesdNorcal - how is your wine coming? I'm estimating moving to secondary in about 7-9 days. My temps are hovering right at 75.

During secondary I'll be blending some of the Cab Franc with the other wines I have going right now. I have 30 gallons of Livermore Merlot, 20 gallons of Livermore Cab and 20 gallons of Petit Verdot from Rattlesnake Hills all fermenting (started August 23). All these were frozen must.

From all these grapes here's the wines I'm planning (Avante yeast used throughout):

Cab Franc with 2-4% Petit Verdot (@NorCal's suggestion)
100% Petit Verdot
100% Livermore Merlot
100% Livermore Cabernet
60% Livermore Merlot, 40% Livermore Cabernet
Blending the same percentages of the 100pt wine with the description provided by NorCal last summer.

_Cab Franc 64%. 39 gallons
Merlo 24%. 14 gallons
Cab Sav 8%. 4.5 gallons
Petite Verdot 4%. 2.5 gallons_


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 3, 2020)

Any particular reason you want to blend in secondary? In a perfect world, I'd wait until a month or two before bottling. That way, the wines have had some time to age and your results over the long haul are more likely to resemble what you had during blending trials. Don't get me wrong - I'll probably take a similar approach this year with my Super Tuscan, so I have sufficient wine to fill my larger barrel. My preference would be to wait though.


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## Johnd (Sep 3, 2020)

crushday said:


> In the throws of fermentation - starting to smell really great.
> 
> @NorCal and @JamesdNorcal - how is your wine coming? I'm estimating moving to secondary in about 7-9 days. My temps are hovering right at 75.
> 
> ...


That last blend is 60 gallons, whatcha gonna put that into?


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2020)

Johnd said:


> That last blend is 60 gallons, whatcha gonna put that into?


I have a brand new 59 gallon barrel sitting empty and waiting. I'm going to watch over this with great diligence so I don't over-oak with a new barrel.


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> Any particular reason you want to blend in secondary?


Very good question. I'm following in the footsteps of master garagiste, NorCal, who attempted this blend last year with great personal satisfaction. Adjudication still pending as he missed the fair this year. Also, I don't have enough barrels at the various volumes to accommodate the amount of wine I have ear marked for the blend if aged separately. That 59 gallon barrel has been standing in the unemployment line too long!


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 3, 2020)

crushday said:


> Very good question. I'm following in the footsteps of master garagiste, NorCal, who attempted this blend last year with great personal satisfaction. Adjudication still pending as he missed the fair this year. Also, I don't have enough barrels at the various volumes to accommodate the amount of wine I have ear marked for the blend if aged separately. That 59 gallon barrel has been standing in the unemployment line too long!



I hear ya! Not being 'big players', sometimes we have to make sacrifices to accomodate our container inadequacy.


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2020)

Just punched down...this smells glorious. My senses are on overload right now...

In the back, Merlot. Middle is the Cab. Front, PV. Mrs. Crushday made the covers to help mitigate fruit fly activity. However, I interestingly don't have any fruit flies right now...





Merlot before punch.






Cab before punch.






PV after punch. I love how "inky" the PV is...






#1 Cab Franc punch


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 3, 2020)

crushday said:


> However, I interestingly don't have any fruit flies right now...



You shouldn't have said that.


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## cmason1957 (Sep 3, 2020)

crushday said:


> However, I interestingly don't have any fruit flies right now...




If you would like some, I can try to capture some of the ones I have and I don't have anything fermenting right now, but they seem extra thick for some reason.


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## stickman (Sep 3, 2020)

I keep thinking of the photos that @Ajmassa posted on his fruit fly invasion, they are classic as well as a little bit horrifying.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 3, 2020)

stickman said:


> I keep thinking of the photos that @Ajmassa posted on his fruit fly invasion, they are classic as well as a little bit horrifying.



“I know!- I’ll crush the grapes in the basement & hose down in the corner at the sump pump. Genius!

tHiS WiLL bE sO mUcH mOrE cOnVeNiEnT!”


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## ibglowin (Sep 3, 2020)

I can smell it from here!


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2020)

Ok, I have to admit I'm more confused about pH than ever.

Here are my pH numbers from Sunday - before I pitched yeast or added any TA.

#1 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity 1.103)
#2 Brute: pH is 4.12 (gravity is 1.104)
#3 Brute: pH is 4.06 (gravity is 1.102)
#4 Brute: pH is 3.96 (gravity 1.104)

I just checked my pH and I'm shocked how low it's gotten. However, I did add TA to each Brute in the following quantities:

#1 - 200gm (scale measured) on Sunday a few hours after yeast.
#2 - 87gm (scale measured) on Monday evening
#3 - 87gm (scale measured) on Monday evening
#4 - 87gm (scale measured) on Monday evening

Here are my readings tonight on pH:

#1 - 3.41
#2 - 3.59
#3 - 3.55
#4 - 3.41

Can someone tell me the outcome of this? And, how did it happen? In only added enough TA to lower 2 10ths at the most. It's down significantly.

Some pics in sequential order:


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## ibglowin (Sep 3, 2020)

The CO2 is skewing you’re pH downward at the moment. Just let it ride until it’s degassed. Then recheck later. Like in a couple months later. Remember, when adding TA. Always add 1/2 the amount you think you will need. You can always add more easily but it’s a PITA to try and remove it.


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## ibglowin (Sep 3, 2020)

MLF will also bump it back up usually.


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2020)

ibglowin said:


> The CO2 is skewing you’re pH downward at the moment. Just let it ride until it’s degassed. Then recheck later. Like in a couple months later. Remember, when adding TA. Always add 1/2 the amount you think you will need. You can always add more easily but it’s a PITA to try and remove it.


Thanks for the info!


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2020)

I’ll be using my GHP (gagillion hole pipe) soon. Just cleaning it up. I made it a couple months ago.


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## NorCal (Sep 4, 2020)

There is a mysterious (to me) factor of the buffering capacity (ability to resist change in pH) of wine, which will vary greatly batch to batch. Your adjustments are spot on and you should be patting yourself on the back.

Your glamor shots of your GHP is on point


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 4, 2020)

You got a few of those GHPs for luminous yard decor in the 'off season'?


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## Johnd (Sep 4, 2020)

As Mike said earlier, your pH readings are being affected Cy CO2 (carbonic acid) in your wine. Take a little must sample out, drop it into a blender and blend it for 30 seconds. Strain the clear liquid into a vessel and measure that, it’ll be free from CO2. Until your wine is totally degassed, the effects of CO2 will be present. 

@NorCal is right about the “bounce back” of pH, I see it every year as well. I’ve always attributed it to juice being still locked up in the grapes, increasing the effects of the Tartsric additions on the juice that is free. As more of the juice comes free, the effects of the Tartaric additions are lessened, and the pH creeps back up. Just my theory, in addition to the chemical facts we already know about pH buffering.


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## JamesdNorcal (Sep 4, 2020)

Hi Guys - My Cab Franc was down to zero brix last night. I’ve had it in my garage at 78-86 degrees. Smells and looks great. PH is at 3.65. I did add TA to bring the PH down about .2

I had 2 batches of barbera 1) fermented in garage at 78-86 degrees and 2) fermented in basement room at 74-78 degrees. It seemed like the batch I did in the garage came out with more aroma and flavor, so I tried that with the Cab franc.. and strange, the PH I did in the garage is at 3.27, the batch I did in the basement PH is 3.17. Same starting point of 2.97 for both.

I figure I can also try blending the barbera and cab franc if the barbera doesn’t drop out enough acid during cold stabilization..One high acid other low acid, maybe a good merger.


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2020)

SG check on #1 - 1.030.

I’ll be checking each morning now.

Any recommendations on when to press?


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## NorCal (Sep 4, 2020)

The Avante will run through the remaining sugar with ease. I let mine go dry before pressing, whenever possible. Of course logistics and time availability always becomes a factor.


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## VinesnBines (Sep 4, 2020)

Where are you fermenting? Basement, garage, outside? I’m worried about gassing the dogs that sleep in the basement and the people upstairs. I don’t have a garage; may have to use the carport.


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Where are you fermenting? Basement, garage, outside? I’m worried about gassing the dogs that sleep in the basement and the people upstairs. I don’t have a garage; may have to use the carport.


I'm fermenting in my garage, which is climate controlled. By controlling the ambient temperature I can generally keep the fermentation at a steady pace and prevent a proverbial freight train from running through the grapes. I suspect I'll be pressing on Sunday or Monday. 

Someone with more experience might jump in here, but I don't think you have any fear of "gassing" anyone or anything from fermenting in your basement. IMO, there simply isn't enough C02 to have an adverse effect.


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## Kraffty (Sep 4, 2020)

I'm going to ferment in my basement but I do have a blower that vents to the outside and will have my 3 brutes near that blower intake for the first 4 or 5 days.


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## NorCal (Sep 4, 2020)

crushday said:


> I'm fermenting in my garage, which is climate controlled. By controlling the ambient temperature I can generally keep the fermentation at a steady pace and prevent a proverbial freight train from running through the grapes. I suspect I'll be pressing on Sunday or Monday.
> 
> Someone with more experience might jump in here, but I don't think you have any fear of "gassing" anyone or anything from fermenting in your basement. IMO, there simply isn't enough C02 to have an adverse effect.


Only one time, when I fermented two tons in my garage at once was I concerned about CO2 build up. It was too much for the space without adequate venting. I‘ve never had an issue with a single macrobin 1,000 pounds worth.


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## VinesnBines (Sep 4, 2020)

Thanks all. That’s what I was hopIng but hated the thought that I might kill the dogs or us.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 4, 2020)

Here is an extended discussion you might find useful (but not definitive!): Max gals fermenting in Basement?


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2020)

NorCal said:


> We traded some wine, so I hope he will share honest reviews.



Congratulations @NorCal on a FANTASTIC wine! We had the 2017 Bordeaux Blend this evening. 

Initial and immediate impressions:

1. @NorCal must have filtered this wine as no noticeable residue found in the botlle post pour
2. Aroma wafting from the filling decanter on point with many commercial wines I enjoy
3. Nose: Dark fruit and a hint of chocolate spice. Maybe a little green pepper
4. First drink: “Dang, I hope my wine tastes this good!”
5. Friendly approach like walking though a patch of strawberries that gives way to real tannins lighting on the pallet like a flock of ducks lighting on the north pond at @Johnd ‘s family homestead ranch. Wait for it...1, 2, 3...bam! So smooth...
6. Color is classic Cab Franc...
7. @NorCal - I would buy this wine. At the risk of flattery, it’s amazing. Great job...


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## VinesnBines (Sep 5, 2020)

Will you write the descriptions for my wines? Only good ones of course.


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## NorCal (Sep 5, 2020)

crushday said:


> Congratulations @NorCal on a FANTASTIC wine! We had the 2017 Bordeaux Blend this evening.
> 
> Initial and immediate impressions:
> 
> ...


Thanks @crushday. 

Here is what I wrote about the wine a few years ago.

I have a 23.5 brix 60 gallon French oak barrel Cab Sauv that I’ve blended the $&#@ out of, to the point that the original Cab Sauv is less than 70% of the barrel. I did the blending because I just didn’t like the “greeness” of the low brix Cab. I threw Petite Sirah, Petit Verdot and a bunch of Cab Franc at it. In the end, I’m happy with it.


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## crushday (Sep 7, 2020)

I spent eight hours pressing today (setup, press, cleanup) and was able to get 88 gallons of Cabernet Franc. I also pressed the Petit Verdot (9 gallons), the Cab Sauv (23 gallons) and Merlot (31 gallons). Total=151 gallons.

Here are a few of the pics... (sorry for the orientation. I wish the website software allowed me to change this!)


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## crushday (Sep 7, 2020)

A few more pics...


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## Johnd (Sep 7, 2020)

Looks like it went off pretty well, the color looks super, nice job!!


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## crushday (Sep 7, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Looks like it went off pretty well, the color looks super, nice job!!


I didn't use the bag. Glad I didn't...


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## Johnd (Sep 7, 2020)

crushday said:


> I didn't use the bag. Glad I didn't...



Did you try the Saran Wrap hack? You might not get the high pressure squirters in a bladder press, but they’re super messy in a ratchet type press.


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## crushday (Sep 7, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Did you try the Saran Wrap hack? You might not get the high pressure squirters in a bladder press, but they’re super messy in a ratchet type press.


I considered it but I was able to adjust the pressure and keep it from squirting. When they would start, I would back off the pressure for a few minutes. Once I noticed the flow slowing I added more pressure. It worked really well. I would highly recommend using a bladder press.


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## GR! (Sep 7, 2020)

This gets me excited for my grapes to get in!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 7, 2020)

Wow. Didn’t realize you had all that goin at once. Where’s the merlot, cab sauv, and petite Verdot from? 
Hard to keep track of all your wines!
Looks like a long day. Certainly putting in some work!

Fantastic pics. Seems all went as smooth as one could hope for. So what’s the end goal here? Planning to find a nice blend before barreling? Do you have an idea of the blend you’re shooting for?


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## BI81 (Sep 7, 2020)

This is like watching a hype video before football season!! I am now officially pumped. I get Santa Barbara county grapes and still have about a month to go, but I’m stoked!


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## crushday (Sep 7, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Wow. Didn’t realize you had all that goin at once. Where’s the merlot, cab sauv, and petite Verdot from?
> Hard to keep track of all your wines!
> Looks like a long day. Certainly putting in some work!
> 
> Fantastic pics. Seems all went as smooth as one could hope for. So what’s the end goal here? Planning to find a nice blend before barreling? Do you have an idea of the blend you’re shooting for?


AJ, it did go smooth. The Merlot and Cab are from Livermore, California. The Petit Verdot is from Rattlesnake Hills in the Columbia River valley (Washington). My goal with this wine: I’m trying to blend the CF, Merlot, Cab and PV and attempt the same percentages of the 100pt wine that @NorCal posted last year. And, planning on single varietal of each too.

My highest goal is to give most of what I make away and enjoy the process in the meantime. Like everyone, I want to make wine as good or better than the wine I can buy.


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## wood1954 (Sep 8, 2020)

Wow, that should be a great blend. What makes a 100 point wine for you?are you barrel aging? That’s a lot of wine to give away. As I was crushing my grapes I was wondering what I’m going to do next year when my harvest will probably double.


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

wood1954 said:


> Wow, that should be a great blend. What makes a 100 point wine for you?are you barrel aging? That’s a lot of wine to give away. As I was crushing my grapes I was wondering what I’m going to do next year when my harvest will probably double.


Here’s the description of the blend we’re talking about. 

2012 Verite le Desir, 100 point wine (Robert Parker).

Le Désir—predominantly Cabernet Franc supported by Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot — shows layers of concentrated fruit, exotic spice, opulent aromatics and a plush suede texture. 

Cab Franc 64%. 39 gallons
Merlo 24%. 14 gallons
Cab Sav 8%. 4.5 gallons
Petite Verdot 4%. 2.5 gallons

I am aging in a barrel. I’ll move to final storage once MLF has completed.


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## Kraffty (Sep 8, 2020)

Looks amazing so far. I'm impressed at the level you've jumped in at (equip and quality of grapes and volume) and the way you're been gathering and using info from some of the experienced people on this forum. Great job all around! Keep up the updates and maybe share comparisons with NorCals progress from same grapes.


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## NorCal (Sep 8, 2020)

Wow, that’s a lot of wine to handle, hopefully you had some help. You have one of my CF blends in our wine swap for comparison, but you would have to wait a year or two to compare. I’d just drink it


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## Mac60 (Sep 8, 2020)

crushday said:


> I spent eight hours pressing today (setup, press, cleanup) and was able to get 88 gallons of Cabernet Franc. I also pressed the Petit Verdot (9 gallons), the Cab Sauv (23 gallons) and Merlot (31 gallons). Total=151 gallons.
> 
> Here are a few of the pics... (sorry for the orientation. I wish the website software allowed me to change this!)
> 
> ...


Looks fantastic what bladder press are you using how did it work out for you?
Mike


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Wow, that’s a lot of wine to handle, hopefully you had some help. You have one of my CF blends in our wine swap for comparison, but you would have to wait a year or two to compare. I’d just drink it


NorCal - actually I did it all by myself. Other than my wife taking a few pictures of me working it was a long solo day. Which I'm ok with. Most of my life is spent around lots of people so having a day to myself has it's own level of therapeutics. 

I'm yanking a cork tonight on another bottle of your fantastic wine. I'll let you know how that goes...


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

Mac60 said:


> Looks fantastic what bladder press are you using how did it work out for you?
> Mike


It's the Lancman VSX80 - it worked very well. First time I used it so a little bit of a learning curve for the first pressing but I was a near expert by round two.


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## Mac60 (Sep 8, 2020)

Where did you purchase it, I'm looking for one and trying to decide on 120 or the 80? we are doing 2740lbs of grapes


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

Mac60 said:


> Where did you purchase it, I'm looking for one and trying to decide on 120 or the 80? we are doing 2740lbs of grapes


I got mine at winemakersdepot.com - it’s not far from my house and that’s the brand they carry and, I don’t have to pay shipping.

Of the two capacities you state, given the amount of grapes I would get the 120. A couple unknowns for me related to your specific case:

1. Is the amount of grapes anomalous or annually reoccurring?
2. Are your grapes red (post ferment) or white (pre ferment)? 
3. Equipment ($) budget vs time budget becomes tension to manage.

I pressed 1900 pounds of grape must in six basket fills with the 80 so you can use my experience to gauge your purchase or rental.


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## Mac60 (Sep 8, 2020)

crushday said:


> I got mine at winemakersdepot.com - it’s not far from my house and that’s the brand they carry and, I don’t have to pay shipping.
> 
> Of the two capacities you state, given the amount of grapes I would get the 120. A couple unknowns for me related to your specific case:
> 
> ...


Crushday,
Thanks for the response
1. We will most likely being the same quantity or slightly more next year
2. Red Grapes are fermented
3. The 120 is more than we would like to spend but would work if we save time with reduced press cycles

Sounds like you ran a little over 300 lbs each press cycle how long did it take you to press 1900 lbs?


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

Mac60 said:


> Crushday,
> Thanks for the response
> 1. We will most likely being the same quantity or slightly more next year
> 2. Red Grapes are fermented
> ...


Just the pressing, 3-4 hours. I was also pressing four varieties so the basket fills were as follows:

1. Petit Verdot (1) [partial 1/2 to capacity]
2. Merlot (1) [partial 4/5 to capacity]
3. Cab Sauv (1) [partial 3/4 to capacity]
4. Cab Franc (3) [This was the only variety that I filled to capacity first two times and 1/2 the third time]

Total day was 8 hours but included set up and clean up.

I asked about white grapes because it would require more pressings to tear through 2700 pounds of whites than fermented reds...

Let me know if you need more info.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 8, 2020)

I was once told or read that you shouldn't partially fill a bladder press. Rather you should partially inflate the bladder so you have full capacity. Did you not find this the case? I don't yet have one and was just wondering.


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> I was once told or read that you shouldn't partially fill a bladder press. Rather you should partially inflate the bladder so you have full capacity. Did you not find this the case? I don't yet have one and was just wondering.


I’m actually not following your question. Partially filling the bladder press predetermines that the bladder will partially inflate. I noticed, during each press that was not filled to capacity, that the bladder would touch the side of the cage well before I could notice the effects of the press against the skins.

Can you rephrase the question?


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## DPCellars (Sep 8, 2020)

I went through crush, fermentation, and press with ZERO fruit flies. Bought all these traps based upon the onslaught last year. Not a single fruit fly this year. My wife was very happy.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 8, 2020)

crushday said:


> I’m actually not following your question. Partially filling the bladder press predetermines that the bladder will partially inflate. I noticed, during each press that was not filled to capacity, that the bladder would touch the side of the cage well before I could notice the effects of the press against the skins.
> 
> Can you rephrase the question?



Not Fred, and never used a bladder press. I think you two are using two different definitions of "partially filled." I think Fred is saying that if you dump a less-than-full load of grapes in, then you will observe the effect you describe, viz., the bladder will touch the side of the cage at the top of the press. I think he is instead suggesting that you partially inflate the bladder, making the empty volume between the bladder and the cage smaller. Then put in the must you have, filling up that space. Now the must will be evenly distributed top to bottom, and your press won't feature the bladder touching the cage prematurely.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 8, 2020)

DPCellars said:


> I went through crush, fermentation, and press with ZERO fruit flies. Bought all these traps based upon the onslaught last year. Not a single fruit fly this year. My wife was very happy.



You had no fruit flies because you had plenty of traps. If you weren't so well prepared, they would have known and would have reacted accordingly.


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> Not Fred, and never used a bladder press. I think you two are using two different definitions of "partially filled." I think Fred is saying that if you dump a less-than-full load of grapes in, then you will observe the effect you describe, viz., the bladder will touch the side of the cage at the top of the press. I think he is instead suggesting that you partially inflate the bladder, making the empty volume between the bladder and the cage smaller. Then put in the must you have, filling up that space. Now the must will be evenly distributed top to bottom, and your press won't feature the bladder touching the cage prematurely.


The way you describe (and Fred) makes more sense. Inherently difficult to judge void of experience, however. Makes sense all the same.

My experience was the top “sqeeze” was radiantly less thick as it moved vertically higher. Didn’t experience any difficulty throughout.

I will also add this little fact. Pre-filling, as to check functionality, resulted in the bag to inflate disproportionately as I observed. To me, that made sense given the pliability of the rubber reservoir and the nature of rubber to expand at the point of least resistance.


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2020)

Kraffty said:


> Looks amazing so far. I'm impressed at the level you've jumped in at (equip and quality of grapes and volume) and the way you're been gathering and using info from some of the experienced people on this forum. Great job all around! Keep up the updates and maybe share comparisons with NorCals progress from same grapes.


Krafty, very kind of you. I seem to remember that you were headed to CA about the same time as me. How did that trip turn out. How’s your fermentation?


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## DPCellars (Sep 9, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> You had no fruit flies because you had plenty of traps. If you weren't so well prepared, they would have known and would have reacted accordingly.



The traps are designed to attract and kill with extreme prejudice. My traps were emptier than my pockets after 10 minutes of slot play in Vegas. Baffling to me. Maybe it's all the smoke in the air from all the fires.


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## crushday (Sep 13, 2020)

I had to build a carriage for my 59 gallon barrel today. I won’t be filling it until MLF is done but wanted to get that done this weekend. Here’s a few pics...


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## NorCal (Sep 14, 2020)

Nicely done on the barrel carts. What was your total yield on the Cab Franc? How does it taste? Are you going to mlf?


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## crushday (Sep 14, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Nicely done on the barrel carts. What was your total yield on the Cab Franc? How does it taste? Are you going to mlf?


NorCal - already inoculated with CH16.

I was able to get 88 gallons of free run and pressed wine:

300 liters (79.25 gallons) Speidel tank (pictured)
23 liters (6 gallons) PET carboy (pictured)
Two 1 gallon glass jug (pictured)

Tastes amazing already! Can’t wait to try aged in barrel after 18-24 months!!

Glass in background contains Petit Verdot.


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## crushday (Sep 14, 2020)

Quick question to the collective. Some info first:

I'm planning on letting MLF run its course until Saturday, October 3rd. I'll run a chromatography test that morning and I'll know the results the next day. If it's done, I'll rack.

Question: Is there any reason I should rack prior to this? You can see from the PET carboy pic, I have some lees residue. This is consistent among all vessels. I don't want to pick up off flavors but I don't want to move the wine prematurely or unnecessarily.

What's going in the barrel is a Bordeaux blend of 39 gallons of Cab Franc, 14 gallons of Livermore Merlot, 4.5 gallons of Livermore Cab and 2.5 gallons of Petit Verdot. I'll mix 4 gallons of the blend for topping up over the next 18-24 months. The rest will be stored 100% varietal.

The remaining CF (49 gallons) will be racked to (1) 26 gallon Speidel and (1) 15 gallon Speidel, (1) 6 gallon carboy.

I can wait until end of the month to rack, right?


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## stickman (Sep 14, 2020)

Unless there is some major funk detected I normally wait until the ML is finished before racking.


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## Kraffty (Sep 14, 2020)

I just finished re-reading the section in More-Wine red guide on MLF and they say DO NOT rack during MLF. and to stir a couple of times a week to suspend the lees as nutrients for the CH16.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 14, 2020)

Agree with @stickman and @Kraffty . Stir every week or so and rack when MLF is complete.


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## CDrew (Sep 14, 2020)

stickman said:


> Unless there is some major funk detected I normally wait until the ML is finished before racking.



I agree. If you're off the gross lees, the fine lees are food for the MLF bacteria. Previously, I've seen MLF done in 2-3 weeks if co-inoculated, so your plan is reasonable. And you'll test first and remove all doubt!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 14, 2020)

Oct 3rd sounds awfully quick. Even if chroma shows complete I like to stretch another month. Or at least 2 weeks. Chroma tests aren’t definitive either. The last bits of malo (<30g/L i think)to convert aren’t able to be detected.


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## NorCal (Sep 14, 2020)

crushday said:


> Quick question to the collective. Some info first:
> 
> I'm planning on letting MLF run its course until Saturday, October 3rd. I'll run a chromatography test that morning and I'll know the results the next day. If it's done, I'll rack.
> 
> ...


Hey @crushday, You got a very good yield at 13.6 pounds/gallon. I’m usually at 15-15.5 Sounds like an awesome line-up and a lot of great blending options. I looked at how long it took for my Cab Franc to complete mlf. Over the last 3 years, it was between 6-8 weeks from inoculation. I just let the wine sit (don’t stir) until mlf has completed, but I add acti-ml when I add mlb.


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## crushday (Sep 14, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I just let the wine sit (don’t stir) until mlf has completed, but I add acti-ml when I add mlb.


6-8 weeks... Ok, since I’m in this for the long haul I’m in no particular hurry. Also, in terms of my yield. You were very generous with my quantity. I might owe the HOA a bit more coin...

I’ve only recently become aware of any type of nutrient for the bacteria. I don’t have any on hand and have not ordered any. If I ordered some today, it could be 2-3 weeks before something is delivered. The whole world of merch delivery has been upended... Previous to these recent batches (Merlot, Cab, Petit Verdot and Cab Franc) I’ve had three other batches complete w/o acti-ml or similar adjunct.

I still have tiny bubbles ascending to the surface in all vessels. Is it necessary this time? I can add this to my shopping list in the future and I wonder if I’m too late for this round. What say you?

As an update. All of my SG is down to .995 or .994. I’m happy with the primary fermentation.


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## NorCal (Sep 14, 2020)

crushday said:


> 6-8 weeks... Ok, since I’m in this for the long haul I’m in no particular hurry. Also, in terms of my yield. You were very generous with my quantity. I might owe the HOA a bit more coin...
> 
> I’ve only recently become aware of any type of nutrient for the bacteria. I don’t have any on hand and have not ordered any. If I ordered some today, it could be 2-3 weeks before something is delivered. The whole world of merch delivery has been upended... Previous to these recent batches (Merlot, Cab, Petit Verdot and Cab Franc) I’ve had three other batches complete w/o acti-ml or similar adjunct.
> 
> ...


At this point wouldn’t add nutrient, but would stir on occasion. Ah, that was the good neighbor state, bin weight rounding up that gave you a bit more. That was in case some grapes fell out along the way.


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## crushday (Oct 4, 2020)

I’m performing a chromatography test today. Here’s the set up... You can totally see the color differences between the different varieties:

CF = Cab Franc, which is the lightest
Black = Merlot
Yellow = Cab Sauv
Red = Petit Verdot
Orange = Merlot
PV 1, PV 2 = Petit Verdot


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## crushday (Oct 4, 2020)

I’m VERY confused by these results...
A couple things to notes: 1) I did not use the standards on the test paper and , 2) It appears the solution didn’t wick to the top of the paper. I had it in the testing container for 6 hours.

Conclusions: I can’t tell if the MLF has completed and it seems necessary for the solution to wick throughout.

Can anyone in the WMT universe offer some clarity?


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## mainshipfred (Oct 4, 2020)

I think you have to let it dry a little longer. It should be a green background. That's a lot of samples on one here though. Not sure if that makes a difference. Not going all the way to the top is not a problem. Put it in front of a fan or use a hair dryer to finish drying it..


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## cmason1957 (Oct 4, 2020)

One other comment, smaller drop size for all. I don't know if it matters, but it does look better when you are done and as someone else said, completely dry, the paper should be green.


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## stickman (Oct 4, 2020)

It takes about 6 to 8 hours for the solvent to get to the top of Whatman #1 paper, so you're right at the minimum. I agree with the others, it needs to develop for a while longer to get the green background.


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## ibglowin (Oct 4, 2020)

With out at least the Lactic std your kinda completely in the dark as to where your spot should be for complete conversion.


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## crushday (Oct 4, 2020)

I’m going to redo the test - smaller dots and use of standards. I’ll let it sit overnight, pull it out in the morning and let it dry all day. I’ll confirm the test when I get home from work. No sense it rushing this one like the one this morning. Thanks for all the help.

No harm letting it sit in the developer for 12+ hours, right?


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## ibglowin (Oct 4, 2020)

I usually put it in the developer around 8PM at night and then pull it out the next morning ~7AM or so. You don't need the Tartaric STD. Really only the Malic and Lactic. It does take a good 12-18hours to fully dry and for the spots to really develop.


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## Johnd (Oct 4, 2020)

crushday said:


> I’m going to redo the test - smaller dots and use of standards. I’ll let it sit overnight, pull it out in the morning and let it dry all day. I’ll confirm the test when I get home from work. No sense it rushing this one like the one this morning. Thanks for all the help.
> 
> No harm letting it sit in the developer for 12+ hours, right?


Even if it didn’t go to the top, you’ll see the lower two dots when it dries, the malic presence or absence will tell the tale.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 4, 2020)

As others have said, a long dry time. I usually put in the fluid after work and take out first thing the following morning. Then don't look at it until the end of that day. I think your current sheet will dry enough to show a decent result.


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## Jay A (Oct 4, 2020)

Long dry time. Pretty sure the chroma kit I have mentions holding completed test over household ammonia to amp up spots if difficult to differentiate.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 4, 2020)

A tip I learned from @Johnd to keep the spots smaller——- do one slight droplet from a pipette at a time for all the samples. Give it a few minutes to dry then do again over the same spots. Smaller concentrated spots. 2 or 3x of “dry & reapply”. Very convenient when testing many samples on one paper
regardlews though, that’s a very clean looking sheet. Should dry well and be able to see what’s what.


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## crushday (Oct 5, 2020)

So, here’s the original test. It’s clear my impatience got the best of me...again.

I’ll prep my barrels on Thursday and transfer on Sunday if no leaks. Picked up two new barrels for this project.

Other than some cropping, no other edits performed on this image:


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## cmason1957 (Oct 5, 2020)

I know you are probably nervous to get some SO2 into your wine, but I would wait a couple of weeks and let it finish up. Chromotography is only good down to 30-50 PPM and I still see some indication of a malic acid spot on your paper. I really strive for nothing there, prior to racking and sulfiting. 

I just racked my Chilean juices from this spring over after MLF finished and I couldn't believe how much CO2 came out during the racking with my allinonewinepump.


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## Johnd (Oct 5, 2020)

crushday said:


> So, here’s the original test. It’s clear my impatience got the best of me...again.
> 
> I’ll prep my barrels on Thursday and transfer on Sunday if no leaks. Picked up two new barrels for this project.
> 
> ...


Patience is one of the last things to come, but you have made so much wine, you should be on the edge........LOL!! In the future, let the chromo paper sit in the solution overnight, it'll go all of the way to the top. Even though you pulled after 6 hours, you can see that the lactic spots are quite clear. After you pull it and hang it, it takes a good half day to day to dry thoroughly, and the drier it gets, the more easily the results are evident. Your wine spots are fine, the spacing is fine, and now that it's dry, you can see that there's really no need to spots for the standards. Very well done test in my opinion......

I'm with @cmason1957 , you've made excellent progress, good tartaric spots, good lactic spots, and just the slightest hint of malic. Another two weeks to ensure the last of the malic is gone and you'll be good to go.


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## crushday (Oct 5, 2020)

Here are the results of the retest - showing no malolactic acid.

I’ll give it two more weeks and move to barrels, a few carboys and various sized topping up vessels.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 5, 2020)

crushday said:


> Here are the results of the retest - showing no malolactic acid.
> 
> I’ll give it two more weeks and move to barrels, a few carboys and various sized topping up vessels.
> 
> View attachment 66710



I dunno man. Based on your acid standards on the left your wines are still loaded with malic acid!


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## crushday (Oct 5, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> I dunno man. Based on your acid standards on the left your wines are still loaded with malic acid!


Now, that’s funny. Previously stated on another post: When I bought this test kit, I unpacked and opened everything. It wasn’t until after I was applying the standards for the very first test that I noticed the standard bottles were not labeled. The labeling was on the small plastic bags in which the bottles were shipped and now were resting in the trash.

Because of the consistency of the agents, I didn’t bother updating my labeling. LOL... They are changed now, however. 

Science...


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## Ajmassa (Oct 5, 2020)

You first chroma test is quite impressive I must say. Respect. Mine was a goddamn train wreck! Almost* too embarrassed to even show it. Rushed thru it. Read no instructions. Assumed I knew everything. Left with this disaster: 


(Interestingly enough though despite all that mess you are still able to determine mlf progress)


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## crushday (Oct 5, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> (Interestingly enough though despite all that mess you are still able to determine mlf progress)



AJ, nice job. I’m not seeing the disaster you describe. I’m no expert by anyone’s definition but it would appear that you are maybe 50% to completion on a full conversation to lactic. Again, nice job.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 5, 2020)

crushday said:


> AJ, nice job. I’m not seeing the disaster you describe. I’m no expert by anyone’s definition but it would appear that you are maybe 50% to completion on a full conversation to lactic. Again, nice job.


It’s ok to laugh. That’s why I shared it— my 1st attempt chroma fail!
And I just tested everything I had at the time, including non-mlf’d & kit wines to see how they registered on the test. But I assumed I needed to manually mark the standards up the sheet for the wine to pass over them in order to get the spots lol. Did zero homework. No judgements!


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## NorCal (Oct 6, 2020)

@crushday, could you give an inventory of the wines you have going and any blending plans? How did the cab franc turn out?


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## crushday (Oct 6, 2020)

@NorCal - glad to...

60 gallon (225L) barrel containing the following wines:

Livermore Merlot, 14 gallons
Livermore Cabernet Sauvignon, 4.5 gallons
Rattlesnake Hills Petit Verdot, 2.5 gallons
Clos Du Lac Cabernet Franc, 39 gallons

30 gallon (112L) barrel containing the following wines:

Rattlesnake Hills Petit Verdot, 2 gallons
Clos Du Lac Cabernet Franc, 28 gallons

I’ll also have enough for a six gallon barrel of Merlot, a fourteen gallon barrel of Cab and a six gallon barrel Petit Verdot.

This will give me 19 gallons of CDL CF in balance which will be stored in two 6 gallon carboys and seven 1 gallon jugs. The jugs will be used for topping up over the next 18-20 months in the 60 gallon and 12-14 months on the 30 gallon barrel. 

For this go around I have the following quantities in secondary:

CDL CF 86 gallons
LM Merlot 20 gallons
LM Cab Sauv 18 gallons
RH PV 10 gallons

And, every tasting of the CF has been really great. I’m excited about this wine! So thankful...


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## crushday (Oct 12, 2020)

I moved everything to long term storage today. Here’s what I got from the grapes:

1. 225L barrel filled with @NorCal ’s 100pt Bordeaux blend
2. 112L barrel filled with 2 gallons of Petit Verdot and 28 gallons of Cab Franc
3. 60L Speidel filled with 100pt Bordeaux blend
4. 60L Speidel filled with 1.5 gallons of Petit Verdot and balance of Cab Franc
6. six gallon carboy of Petit Verdot
7. seven one gallon jugs of Cab Franc (topping up wine)
8. four one gallon jugs of 100pt blend (topping up wine) 

Everything cleaned up, put away and now I’m resting. Long day... I need a bigger pump. The one I’m using only pumps one gallon a minute. Brutal. Any suggestions?


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## CDrew (Oct 12, 2020)

crushday said:


> I moved everything to long term storage today. Here’s what I got from the grapes:
> 
> 1. 225L barrel filled with @NorCal ’s 100pt Bordeaux blend
> 2. 112L barrel filled with 2 gallons of Petit Verdot and 28 gallons of Cab Franc
> ...




That's the kind of day when you can be glad that the rest of the time, the wine makes itself. I'm tired reading that list and at 1 gpm-I'd go crazy. You could set up a vacuum pumping system. ( I can rack 15 gallons in 5 minutes with 1/2 inch tubing and likely even faster with bigger tubing). Otherwise there's a nice looking diaphragm pump on Morewine that is close to 3 gallons per minute. 






Self-Priming Shurflo Diaphragm Pump | MoreWine


The ultimate pump for home winemaking use. Self-priming (will push air) so that it can draw out of a tank. Gentle diaphram action so as to not "beat...




morewinemaking.com


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## crushday (Oct 12, 2020)

I forgot to mention that the pH of the 100pt wine is 3.79. The pH of the Cab Franc is 3.91. I added enough KMeta to bring the SO2 up to 50ppm and 60ppm, respectively.

I have a Vinmetrica SC-300. How often should I check the SO2 levels?


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## NorCal (Oct 13, 2020)

crushday said:


> I forgot to mention that the pH of the 100pt wine is 3.79. The pH of the Cab Franc is 3.91. I added enough KMeta to bring the SO2 up to 50ppm and 60ppm, respectively.
> 
> I have a Vinmetrica SC-300. How often should I check the SO2 levels?


Lots of the kind of wine that I like ! With these pH levels I check ever 8-9 weeks when in a barrel, 12 weeks when in glass. You might want to check the first one a week or two earlier.


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## crushday (Oct 13, 2020)

CDrew said:


> You could set up a vacuum pumping system.


Do you mean, use my AIO? Is that what you use?


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## CDrew (Oct 13, 2020)

crushday said:


> Do you mean, use my AIO? Is that what you use?




No. I have one, (an AIO) but built a bigger one around a surplus hospital suction pump. High volume variable vacuum. Works great. The pump is made by Schuco. GOmco is another maker of similar vacuum pumps.

here is a bad picture of it


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## crushday (Oct 13, 2020)

I bought a new pump today: Tellarini solid impeller pump - 32L per minute.

It works great!


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## stickman (Oct 14, 2020)

Looks good, that's a pretty good flow rate, don't let the hose pop out of the tank, you'll have wine on the walls and ceiling......... don't ask how I know.


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## crushday (Nov 7, 2020)

Just thieved some replicated 100pt (Cab Franc, Merlot, Cab and Petit Verdot) wine and a Cab Franc/Petit Verdot blend from the barrels. I let breath for 20 minutes. Both went into barrels (225L and 112L, respectively) on October 13th.

Both are drinking very well. The CF/PV blend has a deeper color (7.5% petit verdot) than the 100pt wine but that is expected given the higher concentration of PV of the bi-blend (approx. 4% PV in the 100pt'er).

Thanks @NorCal for letting me crash your crushing party! I hope I'm invited next fall!!


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## NorCal (Nov 7, 2020)

crushday said:


> Just thieved some replicated 100pt (Cab Franc, Merlot, Cab and Petit Verdot) wine and a Cab Franc/Petit Verdot blend from the barrels. I let breath for 20 minutes. Both went into barrels (225L and 112L, respectively) on October 13th.
> 
> Both are drinking very well. The CF/PV blend has a deeper color (7.5% petit verdot) than the 100pt wine but that is expected given the higher concentration of PV of the bi-blend (approx. 4% PV in the 100pt'er).
> 
> Thanks @NorCal for letting me crash your crushing party! I hope I'm invited next fall!!


That’s what is crazy about this blend. I’d call it a medium body wine but it drinks much earlier than other wines I’ve made. Hope it continues to evolve in a way you like. I’m sure we can work something out again next year.


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## crushday (Jan 30, 2021)

Topping up this past fall’s wine. Doing a bit of tasting too! Yeah, it’s only 9am!!

The 100% Cab Franc is particularly great! Thanks @NorCal !!

Here is a pic with bad glare but you can get a sense for the color on the left of the image.

Can’t wait until next season...


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## CDrew (Jan 30, 2021)

Like they say, you can’t drink all day if you don’t start early!


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## Kraffty (Jan 30, 2021)

you forgot to take your lens cap off. Looks great!


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## mainshipfred (Jan 31, 2021)

crushday said:


> Topping up this past fall’s wine. Doing a bit of tasting too! Yeah, it’s only 9am!!
> 
> The 100% Cab Franc is particularly great! Thanks @NorCal !!
> 
> ...



I almost made a post asking if anyone has heard from you but then seen you have ben posting all along. Must be me that is not following close enough.


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## crushday (Jan 31, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I almost made a post asking if anyone has heard from you but then seen you have ben posting all along. Must be me that is not following close enough.


Fred, to be fair I have been laying low here. The last quarter of 2020 and, this year so far have been unusually busy for me. I’m hopeful that things will settle down here soon.


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## Venatorscribe (Jan 31, 2021)

crushday said:


> Topping up this past fall’s wine. Doing a bit of tasting too! Yeah, it’s only 9am!!
> 
> The 100% Cab Franc is particularly great! Thanks @NorCal !!
> 
> ...


Your Cab Franc looks perfect. Franc is one of my favourite varietals


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## crushday (Jan 31, 2021)

Tried (a whole glass) the 100pt wine tonight - it's exceptional. I cannot not wait until it's bottled. It's in a new 225L French oak barrel - I think I'll bottle this mid-September, which will be about 12 months. Anyone have an opinion?


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 31, 2021)

crushday said:


> Anyone have an opinion?



Send a few bottles and I can give you an informed recommendation. 

How long has it been in that barrel so far? How do you feel about the level of oak to this point? It will fall back some after you take it out, but were it my wine (and as some other things in life), I'd rather pull it out too early than too late. You can always add more oak later.


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## crushday (Jan 31, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Send a few bottles and I can give you an informed recommendation.
> 
> How long has it been in that barrel so far? How do you feel about the level of oak to this point? It will fall back some after you take it out, but were it my wine (and as some other things in life), I'd rather pull it out too early than too late. You can always add more oak later.


Jim, I barred this wine on October 12th, 2020 after it cleared in a Speidel tank for approximately a month. As far as oak, not much right now. French oak imparts oak flavor slower than American, IMO. With clearing and the barrel, it will be about 12 months when I bottle.

As far as sending wine, I'm glad to attempt it. After it's bottled I'll PM you for a suitable address.

And, I’m likely going to be in your area next year. My wife and I had a trip planned to WDC in April 2020 but circumstantially (CoVid) never able to do the trip. We’ll likely go there in April 2022.


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## NorCal (Feb 2, 2021)

One of my biggest mistakes up to a few years ago was to over oak wine. I don't want to taste oak when I drink wine, I want to taste the fruit and the different layers of flavors. Too much oak buries all that. A big Petite Sirah can take oak on the chin, but even with French Oak, you can over oak Cab Franc. If you ever get notes of Coffee flavor, it is due to too much French oak, which is what I got on my 2014 Cab Franc in a 30 gallon French Oak barrel. For mid body wines, I now shoot for between 2nd-3rd year new barrel equivalent. Since I use neutral barrels and add oak with spirals, I can control the oakiness pretty closely.


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