# New to Wine Making - Kit Recommendations



## Tom Martin (Nov 19, 2018)

I am new to wine making, I have been making beer and cider for about 3 years so still new on that too. I have a WE Malbec with skins in the carboy, I also have a Pink Moscato both at about 3 months in the secondary carboy.
I have a RJs Cru Select California Cabernet Syrah Zinfandel I am getting ready to make.

I am ordering 2 more and have narrowed my search to the following would these be good or something else?? these are in a random order. okay after writing my list maybe I will get 3 more.
1) WE Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignon
2) WE LE17 Negroamaro
3) WE LE18 Barbaresco
4) WE LE18 Black Red
4) RJs CRU Select Italian Amarone
5) CC Showcase Amarone


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## kuziwk (Nov 19, 2018)

Tom Martin said:


> I am new to wine making, I have been making beer and cider for about 3 years so still new on that too. I have a WE Malbec with skins in the carboy, I also have a Pink Moscato both at about 3 months in the secondary carboy.
> I have a RJs Cru Select California Cabernet Syrah Zinfandel I am getting ready to make.
> 
> I am ordering 2 more and have narrowed my search to the following would these be good or something else?? these are in a random order. okay after writing my list maybe I will get 3 more.
> ...



I can't recommend the CC showcase series enough, I have not yet tried the amarone but I have tried their carmenere, Sonoma Valley cab cav and most recently the Rosso fortisimo. The carmenere was simply amazing, the cab sav and Rosso are aging, although the cab sav has been bottled ive yet to open a bottle. I was starting to taste really good before I bottled it, I'll likely crack a bottle around Christmase either way these kits need at least 4-6 months to really enjoy them and a year or so to reach peak maturity. If you filter it may speed up the process a bit due to exygen exposure.


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## LouisCKpasteur (Nov 19, 2018)

I'd go with No 1 and No 3. But that's my personal taste.


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## Tom Martin (Nov 19, 2018)

Oh I forgot 1 I was also looking into the Old Vine Cab not sure which company makes those yet.
I guess I should also say the my wife and I I both enjoy Malbec, Cabernet Sauvignon and red blend wines. Brands are kind of all over the place 19 Crimes in good 14 Hands. Just tried a Geyser Peak Cabernet Sauvignon last night and it was very good.


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## kuziwk (Nov 19, 2018)

Tom Martin said:


> Oh I forgot 1 I was also looking into the Old Vine Cab not sure which company makes those yet.
> I guess I should also say the my wife and I I both enjoy Malbec, Cabernet Sauvignon and red blend wines. Brands are kind of all over the place 19 Crimes in good 14 Hands. Just tried a Geyser Peak Cabernet Sauvignon last night and it was very good.


Have you ever had amarone? If not it's definately worth a try if you like heavy reds like me. I loved 19 crimes btw. I don't focus on brands really for commercial wine but if you have the chance mission Hill has some nice big reds from Canada which are a personal favorite.


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## GaDawg (Nov 19, 2018)

If you are new to wine making, may I suggest alternating between early drinkers and ones to age.


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## Tom Martin (Nov 19, 2018)

GaDawg said:


> If you are new to wine making, may I suggest alternating between early drinkers and ones to age.


Yes that would be awesome, the 2 red kits I have now need 18-24 months. I think the pink moscato is next summer 9-12 months.


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## rca (Nov 19, 2018)

I'm new to wine making as well. Any suggestions for early drinking kits if we are really red wine drinkers? I know most reds kits need to be aged.


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## jsbeckton (Nov 19, 2018)

FWIW I have made the WE Lodi Cab 2x and have not been impressed. Made pretty much by the book except for skipping sorbate, bulk aging for 1 year before bottling but it’s been 28 months on the first now and I find it kinda meh.

It gets good reviews which is why I made a second batch but seems to be coming along the same as the first. Not bad, just not that great either. Hey, maybe at 3 years it turns a corner!

The Stags Leap Merlot is much better IMO.


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## kuziwk (Nov 19, 2018)

rca said:


> I'm new to wine making as well. Any suggestions for early drinking kits if we are really red wine drinkers? I know most reds kits need to be aged.


If you have access to Costco they have an Argentina coast amarone which is excellent for the money. It's a 23l kit that you don't have to add water which is nice, however I'm 99% sure it reconstituted. In either case it's excellent for the money and only needs minor tweaking. The 7l Argentina coast kits are decent for the money as well, great for carboy topping, company that overstay their welcome and quick wine that needs little aging while still be palatable.


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## Tom Martin (Nov 20, 2018)

GaDawg said:


> If you are new to wine making, may I suggest alternating between early drinkers and ones to age.



What would be an early drinking Cabernet Sauvignon or red blend you would recommend?
I don't know a lot of different reds. We enjoy Malbecs Cabernet Sauvignon and red blends but don't really like merlots as much. I have seen many other red kits but I have never had those wines types before.


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## jsbeckton (Nov 20, 2018)

Generally speaking when people say early drinkers they are referring to lower juice volume kits rather than the premium kits with skins. Thought is that the premium kits take longer to develop but have more potential while the lower end kits develop quicker but don’t ever reach that premium level.

Before I made the 2 Lodi cabs I made the WE world vineyard cab (10L I think?). While I am still hoping the Lodi cabs continue to develop I would say that the cheaper WV cab was every bit as good if not better at 6mo than the Lodi’s are at 28mo. YMMV.


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## cmason1957 (Nov 20, 2018)

When I think of a quick drinking red blend kit, my thoughts always go to Wineexpert Luna Rossa. It can be consumed at about the 6 month time frame and be very good. Now it does get better, if aged, but doesn't almost everything.


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## Grabo (Nov 20, 2018)

It's not a super early drinking red, but the Winexpert Selection Enigma is a good red blend as well. It's similar to Apothic Red. In my notes, I have that it turned the corner into a "remake this" kit at 12 months from pitching the yeast.


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## kuziwk (Nov 20, 2018)

jsbeckton said:


> Generally speaking when people say early drinkers they are referring to lower juice volume kits rather than the premium kits with skins. Thought is that the premium kits take longer to develop but have more potential while the lower end kits develop quicker but don’t ever reach that premium level.
> 
> Before I made the 2 Lodi cabs I made the WE world vineyard cab (10L I think?). While I am still hoping the Lodi cabs continue to develop I would say that the cheaper WV cab was every bit as good if not better at 6mo than the Lodi’s are at 28mo. YMMV.


Agreed, generally the 10-12L kits are still pretty good and can be appreciated to some extent even by those heavily educated wine snobs. I have never made a bad kit yet that I could not drink... even the cheaper 7l kits...its just some are far superior in taste, body, aroma ect. Some of the 10l kits have a "kit" taste (think reconstituted fruit juice vs fresh) but generally speaking it will age out after a few months. They do get better with time like all wine but the age time is less to reach peak and they are more palatable than a high end kit with grape skins if you were to drink both shortly after clearing. The high end kits with grape skins really should not be touched for 6 months if possible, ideally requiring a year to start drinking them. It also depends on how fast your are aging, I found bottle aging is faster as is aging at temperatures of 68f vs 60f. Filtering will also speed aging. Typically though the higher end kits are borderline not drinkable or enjoyabe after clearing and completely out of balance with muted flavors and even possibly a funky or strong aroma. You are basically wasting your money by drinking them early...again though age duration depends on the grape variety and some of the factors i listed above as there is no hard or fast set rule. It really is a magic how the wine transforms over the months. The general consensus is that we ferment cheaper kits to prevent us from drinking the higher end kits because as I said it's almost like throwing away your money by doing so.


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## GaDawg (Nov 24, 2018)

Tom Martin said:


> Yes that would be awesome, the 2 red kits I have now need 18-24 months. I think the pink moscato is next summer 9-12 months.



Winexpert Vintners Reserve Bergamais. It’s basically a Beaujolais.


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## Tom Martin (Nov 24, 2018)

Thank you for all of the feedback from everyone.
I was at the LHBS picking up some new kits, great black Friday sale.
My early drinking selections
1) Winexpert Vintner Select Cabernet Sauvignon 10L
2) RJS Cru International Malbec 12L

My selections to age
3) RJS En Primeur Amarone
4) RJS En Primeur Australian Cabernet Sauvignon


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## NelsonC (Nov 25, 2018)

kuziwk said:


> I can't recommend the CC showcase series enough, I have not yet tried the amarone but I have tried their carmenere, Sonoma Valley cab cav and most recently the Rosso fortisimo. The carmenere was simply amazing, the cab sav and Rosso are aging, although the cab sav has been bottled ive yet to open a bottle. I was starting to taste really good before I bottled it, I'll likely crack a bottle around Christmase either way these kits need at least 4-6 months to really enjoy them and a year or so to reach peak maturity. If you filter it may speed up the process a bit due to exygen exposure.



I second this!
CC Amarone (18L): i have made numerous times (over several years), consistent quality, excellent body.


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## GaDawg (Nov 27, 2018)

NelsonC said:


> I second this!
> CC Amarone (18L): i have made numerous times (over several years), consistent quality, excellent body.


Really, you want to recommend a wine he can't drink for almost 2 years?


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## Regmata (Nov 28, 2018)

Are there any reds that are true early drinkers?


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## Tom Martin (Nov 28, 2018)

Regmata said:


> Are there any reds that are true early drinkers?



I was told that these 2 wines, would be ready and good at 6 months. 
1) Winexpert Vintner Select Cabernet Sauvignon 10L
2) RJS Cru International Malbec 12L


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## cmason1957 (Nov 28, 2018)

Regmata said:


> Are there any reds that are true early drinkers?



I stand by what I said in this post above WineExpert Luna Rossa, drinks quite well very early. https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/new-to-wine-making-kit-recommendations.67476/#post-710397


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## Tom Martin (Nov 28, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> I stand by what I said in this post above WineExpert Luna Rossa, drinks quite well very early. https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/new-to-wine-making-kit-recommendations.67476/#post-710397



This is on my list, they were out of the Luna Rossa


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## tttaff (Nov 29, 2018)

I made the Cellar Craft Showcase Chateau du Pays two years ago now, and was surprised by how good it was right after bottling. And it's only getting better.


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## Brian55 (Nov 29, 2018)

tttaff said:


> I made the Cellar Craft Showcase Chateau du Pays two years ago now, and was surprised by how good it was right after bottling. And it's only getting better.


This one was definitely a winner. Unfortunately it looks to be discontinued.


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## facn1989 (Nov 29, 2018)

kuziwk said:


> If you have access to Costco they have an Argentina coast amarone which is excellent for the money. It's a 23l kit that you don't have to add water which is nice, however I'm 99% sure it reconstituted. In either case it's excellent for the money and only needs minor tweaking. The 7l Argentina coast kits are decent for the money as well, great for carboy topping, company that overstay their welcome and quick wine that needs little aging while still be palatable.



kuziwk, have you made the CC Showcase Amarone by any chance? I just bottled that one but would like to know your opinion on the Costco Argentina Coast. It has great reviews on the Costco website. Some people compared it to a $18 bottle of commercial wine. Would you agree? At $100 per kit it sounds like a great deal!


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## kuziwk (Dec 3, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> kuziwk, have you made the CC Showcase Amarone by any chance? I just bottled that one but would like to know your opinion on the Costco Argentina Coast. It has great reviews on the Costco website. Some people compared it to a $18 bottle of commercial wine. Would you agree? At $100 per kit it sounds like a great deal!



I haven't tried the CC amarone, however the Costco amarone is very good for the money. I age for 4-6 weeks on additional oak cubes, and really the wine needs 3-6 months of age time. I also add a good tablespoon of powder wine tannin. As far as $18 a bottle i would agree, as it's definately up there. The corks the give are pretty cheap though, I wouldnt use them to age for years.


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## Tom Martin (Dec 3, 2018)

kuziwk said:


> I haven't tried the CC amarone, however the Costco amarone is very good for the money. I age for 4-6 weeks on additional oak cubes, and really the wine needs 3-6 months of age time. I also add a good tablespoon of powder wine tannin. As far as $18 a bottle i would agree, as it's definately up there. The corks the give are pretty cheap though, I wouldnt use them to age for years.



I did not even know Costco had wine kits.


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## cmason1957 (Dec 3, 2018)

Tom Martin said:


> I did not even know Costco had wine kits.


If you live in the United States or maybe that should be shop at Costco in the US. They do not have wine kits.


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## heatherd (Dec 3, 2018)

I agree with @cmason1957 that some reds are designed to need less age, like the Beaujolais style.

I also find some lower-cost blends to be okay quicker, like a super Tuscan or luna rossa or mezza luna red.

Amarone is not an early-drinker though. Seems to take longer to come around...


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## facn1989 (Dec 3, 2018)

Unfortunately the Costco Amarone kit is only available in Canada


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## kuziwk (Dec 4, 2018)

heatherd said:


> I agree with @cmason1957 that some reds are designed to need less age, like the Beaujolais style.
> 
> I also find some lower-cost blends to be okay quicker, like a super Tuscan or luna rossa or mezza luna red.
> 
> Amarone is not an early-drinker though. Seems to take longer to come around...



It's amarone style though...not a true amarone, I'm surprised they have not had a lawsuit yet over their marketing. Even the CC amarone (which I've yet to try) says amarone style. At any rate the Costco one is actually very good to drink early and works well to save your more costly kits, better with aging though as it starts to lose that mild kit taste or raisin flavor that is subtle but evident...likely due to the dried currents they give in the kit. I've seen a cab sav from the same line from Costco (the 23l kit that you don't add water), however i never got a chance to try it since they sold out and never brought it back.


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## kuziwk (Dec 4, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> Unfortunately the Costco Amarone kit is only available in Canada


Road trip? Lol and pickup some legal herb while you here haha.


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