# Chile - Spring 2018 - Malbec - Petit Verdot - Syrah



## jburtner (Mar 20, 2018)

Hi, I placed my order today for Chilean grapes from Musto juicegrape.com this spring. Three varietals -

6x 18lbs Lugs - Chilean Malbec
6x 18lbs Lugs - Chilean Petit Verdot
6x 18lbs Lugs - Chilean Syrah

I'm ordering CSM, D254, and L2056 for yeast and plan to co-inoculate w/VP41 (I have some others too on hand already so might change that protocol up slightly) @ pitch also w some oak powder and fermaid staggered nutrient schedule. I may hit em with some ferment tannins too but we'll see.

Musto will destem, crush, and freeze the lugs into 2x 5 gallon pails each for a total of six pails. This will make a little more than a five gallon batch so hope some will be adequate for top-up / etc... Two buckets each varietal will fit each of my three 20g brutes on wheels so just need to make sure they're empty towards end of May.

I'll probably end up processing and bulk ageing through to next spring and bottle some as single varietal as well as blending too. That will give some good variety and maybe I'll also plan for a merlot kit to use the skins again and to top up the blends with for some fruity goodness... I have a merlot now in bulk ageing but that'll be in bottles one way or another by then.

Sorta on the fence about any more kits - I have committed to only frozen must or fresh grapes for all further wines but might let it slide for a topper which would be fermented on six-buckets of second-run skins... I did that last year with a merlot kit that has turned out great 

Expecting to have grapes in the cellar towards end of May.

All good fun!

I'll update this thread with notes, pics, and metrics as we go.

Cheers and looking forward to this seasons pickin's!
-johann


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## TemperanceOwl (Mar 22, 2018)

Hi. Thanks for posting. I am planning to order fresh juice or grapes from Chile this year for the first time, and am trying to decide between grapes or juice. I apologize for the ignorant question, but if you buy fresh grapes and have them destem, crush, and freeze them into pails, is that different from buying juice pails? Is it that with juice pails you get only juice and no skins, whereas what you're getting is everything but the stems? 
Also, you say that you're getting "2x 5 gallon pails each for a total of six pails. This will make a little more than a five gallon batch..." Do you mean that 10 gallons of each varietal will make a 5 gallon batch of each varietal?
I've been making wine from kits and fresh fruit (berries, bananas, etc) for several years, but this will be my first jaunt into fresh grapes.


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## jburtner (Mar 22, 2018)

Hi Temp, Yes. The must buckets are crushed and destemmed frozen must - ready to adjust (as needed) and ferment then press when done. The juice buckets have already been pressed. I'm not sure exactly how they do the pressing before fermentation so I prefer to have the skins in the ferment for extended extraction plus I'll use them a second time in a merlot kit for some additional extraction in that merlot.

I've done a number of kits.

I did three 5g cab-sav buckets last summer which netted me almost two 5g carboys or a 6g and a 3g carboy... 

They fit three crushed and destemmed 18lbs lugs into a bucket so for two buckets I am expecting maybe six or 6.5 gallons. We'll see. I think wine yield is about 2/3 must volume.

I'll use that extra merlot kit to top up and even out any blends.

I figure with those four varietals I can split it up before bottling and get at least couple/three blends and some straight up varietal bottles to keep in the cellar.

I'm looking forward to these grapes being a bit on the darker richer and heavier end of the spectrum.

Cheers!
-johann


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## TemperanceOwl (Mar 22, 2018)

Hi, Johann.
Thanks so much for the reply! That's very helpful information, and it sounds like the way to go for me, too. I'm thinking of ordering Carmenere and Merlot. 
To use the skins in the Merlot kit, will you buy a low-end no skins kit and spike it with your skins, or will you use a higher end kit and just add the goodness of your fresh skins to it?


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## jburtner (Mar 22, 2018)

Last time I did this with the merlot kit and three buckets worth of pressed cab sav skins (pressed down to 1x bucket) I used a wine expert stags leap merlot kit. I might go with that again and I might see if I can find a frozen juice bucket or something. That’ll probaby be early to mid june time frame so I have some time but the stags leap WE kit worked out well so far (still bulk ageing now).

Since I’m planning to pitch MLB at the same time as yeast - the skins will have mlb in them. The kit may suffer as a result. Last time I mlb’d acter pressing the skins.

I have some extra yeast in my fridge to also consider using.


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## jburtner (May 3, 2018)

Some grapes are starting to arrive @ Musto this weekend. I believe the Malbec and Petit Verdot are expected in Friday 5.4. They will be destemmed and crushed then frozen for shipping later towards the end of May. I requested minimal SO2 treatment during crush for best mlb co inoculation viability. They will also do this for the Syrah lugs when they arrive. 

I should order my lab chemicals so they’re fresh and I can be prepared to test for TA and SO2 absolute/free once I receive the buckets and thaw them. 

On track for end of this month so will make sure my fermenters and adequate carboys are free and clean. I do have a couple other projects in the works so this will take a little coordination. 

I’ve been enjoying tasting some similar varietals and blends this past period of time so very excited to be making and cellaring these wines this season.

Cheers!
-johann


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## Johnd (May 3, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Some grapes are starting to arrive @ Musto this weekend. I believe the Malbec and Petit Verdot are expected in Friday 5.4. They will be destemmed and crushed then frozen for shipping later towards the end of May. I requested minimal SO2 treatment during crush for best mlb co inoculation viability. They will also do this for the Syrah lugs when they arrive.
> Cheers!
> -johann



FWIW, when my Chileans were ordered, my order instructions were similar, except that no SO2 was requested at crush. Of course, I do not know if those instructions were followed, but assumed that they were. No sulfite was added on my end, and despite multiple inoculations of VP41, the Chileans never went through MLF and I gave up after 3-4 months. All other parameters were in the optimum range. Always suspected that the shipping methods resulted in lots of bound SO2 inhibiting the MLB. That was the last batch I did that wasn't co-inoculated, and I still wonder if that would have made a difference. Others have been successful with post fermentation MLF on the same batch of grapes, kinda hard to figure, but just be careful with the sulfites............


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## jburtner (May 3, 2018)

Ok thanks JohnD! I'll test for absolute SO2 and co-inoculate. I'm sure they treat in Chile for harvest / shipping and I’m not planning to add any until after MLF and will press and top up nice and tight in carboy once AF is close enough to complete.

Well I guess I’ll mist my equipment as needed but I also purchased a jar of star san this season for other sterilization options too. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## mainshipfred (May 3, 2018)

I didn't get my Chilean grapes crushed, crushed them myself and the S02 was 9.0. I too had trouble getting last years Chileans and Calis going thru MLF but then again I didn't have the means to test for S02 at the time.


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## jburtner (May 15, 2018)

Sounds like my grapes are in and crushed / destemmed and frozen - ready to Ship this coming Monday. I should have buckets thawing mid next week. I've got a bunch on my plate over the next weeks so I'll probably have a couple late evenings of pressing and maybe I can stagger that work and I'll certainly be reusing those skins too. More info later.

Cheers!
-johann


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## Ajmassa (May 15, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Sounds like my grapes are in and crushed / destemmed and frozen - ready to Ship this coming Monday. I should have buckets thawing mid next week. I've got a bunch on my plate over the next weeks so I'll probably have a couple late evenings of pressing and maybe I can stagger that work and I'll certainly be reusing those skins too. More info later.
> 
> Cheers!
> -johann



Yea man it’s tough. I’m in the midst of everything you just described. Minus staggering the work. Fried. Starting to not only forget what day it is, but also not even care to know.


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## baron4406 (May 15, 2018)

My LHBS called me and said their supplier called and said Petit Verdot was a no-go from their supplier in Chile, he wasn't satisfied with the crop. So I subbed in Cab Franc. BTW it was Keystone in Bethlehem in Pa.


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## jburtner (May 15, 2018)

What was it about PV that was no-go? I'd like to know some specifics if possible and anything regarding particular location / etc.

Thx!
-johann


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## jburtner (May 17, 2018)

As I prep for grapes to arrive mid next week and thaw by Saturday I am making last minute orders. I'll be co inoculating this season and have an unopened pack of VP41 in the fridge from last year which I plan to divide between three two bucket musts. 

As I am ordering ExV and OptiRed I started looking at some other MLB's and was wondering what the result of inoculating with more than one mlb would be...

Anyone have any experience or ideas?

Thx,
johann


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## olusteebus (May 17, 2018)

Approx price on this please?


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## jburtner (May 17, 2018)

Price on what?


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## jburtner (May 19, 2018)

So, I think I’ll answer my own question and I’m going to spread iut these fermentations into a number of different vessels so that I can pitch different yeasts and different mlb’s then as AF is finishing I’ll blend each varietal back together into a brute can and prepare to press and move to glass. 

The goal with that protocol will be for each varietal to use up to three different yeast and mlb’s to blend for increased complexity and depth. 

I’ll have to use the buckets they came in as primary fermenters so I’m estimating 1/2 to 2/3 full will have adequate headroom for the cap. 

So, now to tally yeasts on hand and figure out some mlb’s other than vp41. 

Loving this!

Cheers!
-johann


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## mainshipfred (May 19, 2018)

jburtner said:


> So, I think I’ll answer my own question and I’m going to spread iut these fermentations into a number of different vessels so that I can pitch different yeasts and different mlb’s then as AF is finishing I’ll blend each varietal back together into a brute can and prepare to press and move to glass.
> 
> The goal with that protocol will be for each varietal to use up to three different yeast and mlb’s to blend for increased complexity and depth.
> 
> ...



I've started using multiple yeasts last spring but have never use multiple MLB's. MBR 31 has been recommended to me but it has a rather low S02 tolerance so I just keep close tabs on it.


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## jburtner (May 21, 2018)

Thanks Fred!

I ordered MBR 31, Enoferm Beta, Wyeast 4007, and already have a VP41 - For MLB diversity 

For yeasties this season I've got "Syrah yeast", D254/D80 combo, bm 4x4, CSM yeast, and L2056 yeast... Plus some others in the fridge that I'll check...

I'll be using Fermaid O for nutes, and for enzymes I've got both Scottszyme Color Pro and EX-V on order...

1lb of medium toast french oak dust and various tannins (may not use any)...

Those are my additives which will be spread out appropriately between six pails and three brute can fermentation vessels... As they near AF completion I'll probably just mix each of the three varietals back into the 20g brutes and then free-run & press before xferring into glass and figuring what to do with the skins.

I don't expect MLF to be complete by AF completion but I'll make paper chromos of all individuals and see how the different mlb's look. I wonder how mixing them together will affect ongoing MLF...

I use different yeasts with some other fermentation projects to good effect so expect good complexity here and maybe diverse mlb's will also support similar.

Cheers!
-johann


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## mainshipfred (May 21, 2018)

All I have to say is if you don't get complexity with your plan you never will, that's quite a combo. Don't know if you saw my other post but my first batch was an all grape SA CS that started going through MLF on it's own as did my Chilean Malbec and Merlot which I reused the same skins in. I'm waiting for the Carmenere to finish AF before deciding whether or not I will pitch the MLB, probably will though to make sure if finishes.


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## jburtner (May 21, 2018)

Wow that's cool! I must have missed the detail about spontaneous MLF  I wish there were some vendors close to here where I could drive and order grapes but it's been frozen buckets which is fine too just a little more pricey with the processing and shipping of course. Sounds like everyone has been getting good grapes from Chile so far except maybe a couple one off's... I have high hopes for this season and am happy to be doing this 

Cheers!
-johann


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## mainshipfred (May 21, 2018)

I have high hopes as well. My first batch was done January 2017. My last batch this spring is the Carmenere #19. Learned a lot in this short time and I'm sure I will continue to make mistakes but this was the first time I felt really comfortable with what I was doing.


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## jburtner (May 24, 2018)

Arrived today.

First measurements for brix and pH.

Petit Verdot
Brix: 23
pH: 3.95

Malbec
Brix: 24
pH: 3.72

Syrah
Brix: 24
pH: 3.85


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## jburtner (May 25, 2018)

Added enzymes this morning. I only ordered one 6g pack of ExV so two buckets got that (malbec and syrah) and the rest got scottzyme color pro. 

I’ll let these sit for 24h to get the enzymes working before more labs tomorrow morning and pitching the yeasties. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## Ajmassa (May 25, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Added enzymes this morning. I only ordered one 6g pack of ExV so two buckets got that (malbec and syrah) and the rest got scottzyme color pro.
> 
> I’ll let these sit for 24h to get the enzymes working before more labs tomorrow morning and pitching the yeasties.
> 
> ...



Correct me if I’m wrong- but Ex-V calls for .075g per gal of must. You shoulda been able to do 30 gal with under 3g.
And btw, the must looks delish. Have fun!


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## jburtner (May 25, 2018)

Was it .075 or .75??? Uh oh!!! Those two will be MUSH not MUST if so... I was surprised that I didn't order enough so maybe just missed a decimal..

-johann

EDIT:

Yeah it's 0.075g / gallon of must.
I dosed 10 gallons with six grams which is enough for 80 gallons..
6 divided by 0.075 = 80.
I guess I'll get good extraction on the Malbec and Syrah. Will be interesting to see how those fare and maybe I'll need to keep those two buckets separate now - I was planning to blend them back together with the other bucket of the same varietal near end of AF. I can still do that and just press fairly quick but will monitor and update.

*** REMINDER ***
No matter how I think I feel - Wine does not come before coffee
-j


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## Ajmassa (May 25, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Was it .075 or .75??? Uh oh!!! Those two will be MUSH not MUST if so... I was surprised that I didn't order enough so maybe just missed a decimal..
> 
> -johann
> 
> ...



My old man always used to say “every carpenter makes mistakes. 100% of em. Even the best. What separates a good carpenter from a great carpenter is knowing how and being able to fix your screwups without hurting quality”. 
Nothing wrong with some extra tannin. Just cellar them for about 10 years [emoji23]


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## Ajmassa (May 25, 2018)

What’s great about winemaking is you can give 10 different people those same buckets of must and get 10 very different sets of wines. 
My plan of action would be to combine the Syrahs and Malbecs now. And then calculate a sugar addition to get em to at least a 25 Brix equivalent. Delicately punching your caps as they become slop. 
And after AF and MLF not to hesitate to boost acid a little if still similar to your must numbers. Theory being that if super tannic then abv and acid bumped will help the balance later. 
I really don’t know how right or wrong it would be, but it’s what I’d do. I’m still learning. I guess as longs as you have solid reasoning behind your decisions then it doesn’t matter. They’re your babies and you can handle them any way you want


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## ceeaton (May 25, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Nothing wrong with some extra tannin. Just cellar them for about 10 years [emoji23]


Well, the EX-V will be limited to the tannins that are in the skins, so it's not like he dumped 10X too much tannin in the batch (don't try it, it's not pleasant). I think he'll be fine. The enzymes will become inactive upon onset of fermentation anyway.

I usually just buy the .8 g packets x number of batches I'm doing, that way I can just dump the whole packet in and not have to try and measure something less than a gram, accurately.


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## jburtner (May 26, 2018)

I’m going to go ahead for now without acid or other adjustments until later. Not too worried about it at this point but i’ll forgo any tannin additions that I was considering.

I moved five gallons of each into a 20g brute then split remaining 5g into two buckets. Pitched three different yeasts for each varietal.

Petit Verdot
- BM 4x4
- D254
- L2056

Malbec
- D254
- D80
- L2056

Syrah
- CSM
- BM 4x4
- Syrah Wine Yeast

Will blend together next weekend into the brute and inoculate MLB’s tomorrow.


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## stickman (May 26, 2018)

You really want your mouth to explode with flavor! Should be interesting to see the results.


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## Ajmassa (May 26, 2018)

Hopefully that’s the expensive painters tape. You’ve got a lot goin on there. Kinda confusing too. Tell me if I got it correct. 
Did you have 2 buckets of each to start? Blended 1 bucket of each for one 15gal ferment. Remaining would be another 15g total- then split that in 2. 3 blended wines. But pitched yeast individually 1st. A 5gal and (x2) 2.5gal for each before blending? 
For a finished wine 1/3 of each varietal blended from 9 separate ferments?
It’s like a question on the SAT’s!


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## jburtner (May 27, 2018)

Ha ha! No blended grapes. 3 varietals of two buckets each. 10gallons must. 

I just made each bucket 1/2 full so the cap has room and i can ferment in the bucket. Three brutes each now w/five gallons. Nothing blended. I pitched a different yeast in each. So for each of the three varietals I have a brute w/5gallons, and two buckets w/2.5gallons must. Fermenting with different yeasts. 

Next weekend or so as AF nears an end I’ll recombine the 1/2 buckets into the brute so it’ll be 10g of each varietal which will have been fermented with three different yeast.

Eventually after bulk ageing I might blend some and I’ve also got a merlot and a cab in bulk now that i can also use to blend.


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## skyfire322 (May 27, 2018)

Sounds like this will be an interesting blend! I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread  Pardon my stupidity, but where did you end up ordering the juice pails from?


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## jburtner (May 27, 2018)

@skyfire - I ordered frozen must buckets from Musto Wine company. They get fresh grapes for harvest and you can either pick them up (in Hartford Connecticut ) or they crush/destem and bucketize them and mail them to you frozen. 

MLB’s went in today. VP41, MBR31, Wyeast 4007, and Enoferm Beta. 

Starting to fizzle 

Cheers,
-johann


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## jburtner (May 30, 2018)

Just a quick update -

Ferment on all of these is going well. The PV has been most active visually and from a co2 production standooint. Down to 1.010 range. Syrah and Malbec less active but down to 1.030 range. I’ll be pressing this weekend and xferring to glass. Expecting more sediment fallout in the syrah and malbec which were slightly overdosed with the ExV enzyme. They all smell and taste good. Looking forward to mixing the different yeast pails of each varietal and moving to the next phase. I might step feed the malbec and syrah with some sugar to boost the abv slightly but i want to be careful and not over sweenten.

Cheers!
-johann


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## CK55 (May 31, 2018)

NIce, i wish i could make that much wine lol.


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## jburtner (Jun 2, 2018)

Spent last night pressing all these grapes. The syrah skins were the most mushy after the ExV overdose. Malbec not so much and I didn’t use the ExV on the Petit Verdot. 

Anyway, I haven’t checked SG but AF is mostly done and the three wines are now in glass. Each was fermented and mlf’d with three different yeast and bacterias now recombined in glass. I tried to keep my tester glass full but it had a big hole in the top the somehow kept letting the new wine out of the glass. I feel like these will be good wines. 

Won’t sulfite until I know mlf is complete and there are a couple inches of gross lees already compacting. Might slurry in some bentonite to help compact. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## stickman (Jun 2, 2018)

Looks good so far. I wouldn't add bentonite at this stage unless you're in a big hurry. The color is not yet stable and bentonite would likely strip some of it out.


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## Johnd (Jun 2, 2018)

I second the comment from @stickman , you worked too hard to get that color, EX-V overdose and all!! Pressing that stuff is a little unwieldy, but letting it sit in the basket and doing some stirring helps it along. Just let it settle naturally for a few days and take what the grapes give you!!


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## jburtner (Jun 18, 2018)

Racked off the gross lee’s this weekend. The Syrah (on the left) gave the least amount at just about 5,5 gallons. Malbec and PV both yield a bit more than six gallons. I threw a couple heavy toast oak fingers into each carboy. Will probably add more in three months. No sulfite yet. I’ll run a paper chromatogram this week to see where mlf is but the syrah and malbec still have some airlock activity. I’ve got a barrel (just about neutral) I can put these through over the next year. 

A small tester glass of each and I’m happy with them at this point.

Almost ready to put them under vacuum for a nice summer rest. 

Cheers!


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## jburtner (Jun 24, 2018)

Looks like the PV is done and the Syrah and Malbec are both still MLF’ing.


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## Johnd (Jun 24, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Looks like the PV is done and the Syrah and Malbec are both still MLF’ing.



Yup, the Syrah and Malbec are looking good as well, won’t be much longer. Always a good feeling when they finish up and can get a little protective sulfite addition.


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## jburtner (Jul 5, 2018)

The delineation between malic and lactic can appear quite blurred. This is with some fairly extreme filtering to highlight. I’m a bit nervous about holding off on kmeta. I’ll test again this weekend and maybe rack and sulfite depending. I could probaby bump the temp a little. It’s about 65*F ambient in the cellar. 

Cheers,
Johann


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## cmason1957 (Jul 6, 2018)

Not to worry. Hold off for at least another month. You still have some malic acid showing.


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## Johnd (Jul 6, 2018)

You're almost there!!! I agree with @cmason1957 , give it another few weeks, the syrah, it appears, still has a couple weeks to go. It's a bit unnerving to let em sit without sulfite, just keep them closed up and the month will pass and you can get them protected. Doing just fine, it's only been 6 weeks since pitching yeast, had a batch of Chileans from 2 years ago went 4 months with no sulfite and never did finish up, you got it all going your way!


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## Ajmassa (Jul 6, 2018)

jburtner said:


> The delineation between malic and lactic can appear quite blurred. This is with some fairly extreme filtering to highlight. I’m a bit nervous about holding off on kmeta. I’ll test again this weekend and maybe rack and sulfite depending. I could probaby bump the temp a little. It’s about 65*F ambient in the cellar.
> 
> Cheers,
> Johann
> ...



The heads have spoken Johann! I think your about a month behind my batch- and I I’m still k-meta free. 
After having back-checked a seemingly complete chroma test with the MLF strips last year I was able to see 1st hand how misleading “complete” chroma tests can really be. And ~100 g/L remained in one. 
I’ve seen with my own eyes how far you can truly push it w/o sulphite too. Keeping vessels topped is all the protection you need—so no rush! Not fearing a lack of sulphites and confident I’m allowing MLF to fully finish!
You should make a sulphite-free batch one day. Would help any uneasiness feelings from unprotected MLF. Extra high pH might be the only factor to rush it


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## jburtner (Jul 6, 2018)

Thanks! I'll check again in a couple weeks and update maybe with TA measurements then too if complete. Can see the MLF progressing so that's good.

Cheers and hope everyone had a good 4th 
-johann


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## jburtner (Aug 8, 2018)

That Syrah is stalling mlf. I have my heating pad in use till this weekend but it’s moving to the syrah to bump the temp a little this weekend. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## jburtner (Sep 25, 2018)

I'll have to take another chromatogram to check but I racked all three off sediment this weekend, sulphited, and degassed a bit by splash racking multiple times (four times back and forth).

I moved the Syrah into my neutral barrel where I'll keep it till next racking and was able to degas the PV enough to take a headspace eliminator but I'll be monitoring and topping up that vacuum because it's not fully degassed yet.

I'm using "oak fingers" that I make out of some JD barrel staves that I cut up and toast. All three of these wines took two fingers of medium+ toast ([email protected]) for the past ~three months. I have left that 400F oak in and now added two more slightly longer fingers of medium- toast ([email protected]).

These are coming along and I'm getting in some Pinot Noir frozen must for the fall. Also bottled a Cab/Merlot blend (20+ bottles) from last summer now @ ~14mos and have probably 4.5gallons of each cab and merlot still in bulk for bottles or blends.

Cheers!
-johann


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## jburtner (Sep 18, 2019)

Just a quick update on these since they've been sitting in the basement bulk aging for a while.

Malbec
- Bottled a couple weeks ago and it spent almost a good year in a neutral barrel. This was pretty good at bottling time and I got about 25 bottles out of it. Looking forward to letting it rest for a couple months and enjoying it.
- The over extraction on this one was not as pronounced. Has a little bite.

Syrah
- This is a little bit tannic with the over-extraction and it spent maybe three-4 months in the barrel. Might top up with some smerlot to tame it a bit.

Petite Verdot
- This one has not seen barrel time yet and is a little lighter than I expected.
- Tastes good though so waiting for some barrel time to concentrate a little then bottle.
- This one was not over extracted as I used a different enzyme which I measured correctly.

Will update more later.
Cheers,
johann


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