# Smelly Mead



## jet (Oct 2, 2010)

My first mead attempt at mead (Buckwheat Mead Failure) did not go well. At the time, I blamed it on the recipe that used no meta and did not measure anything (you just dumped everything together, and forgot it for two weeks). 

Well, the rematch is not going any better. This time I measured the SG (1.085) and adjusted the pH to 3.5. I also used a standard dose of meta, yeast nutrient and DAP. I pitched the D47 yeast last Friday evening. At 24 hrs, it was at SG 1.070 and pH 3.09. It seemed to be preceding normally through Wednesday. I had to work late on Thursday, so I didn't get to check it. Last night (Friday), I was greeted by a quite unpleasant smell that reminded me of my prior failure. I racked it with the intention of checking it today. I couldn't stop thinking about it and came to the conclusion that the yeast must have been stressed, which caused it to produce some undesirable by-products. Now I'm not sure why the yeast would have been stressed.

This morning, I checked it and it still had the solvent-like smell. I checked a couple of my books, and it sounds like acetaldehyde, which is described as having a nail polish remover or airplane glue smell. I just don't see what caused it. Also, there doesn't seem to be any remedial action. I asked my buddy who makes mead, and he asked if I boiled the honey. When I said no, he said that was my problem. I was sure that boiling the honey was not absolutely mandatory.

In desperation, I added another 25ppm SO2 and splash-racked it this afternoon. I'm going to check it again tomorrow, but I'm afraid it going on the lawn.

So what does everyone think, can it be saved?


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## Wade E (Oct 2, 2010)

Thats a bunch of bull. I have never boiled my honey and have won medals with mine. In my belief boiling the honey runs off some very delicate aroma factors from the honey. I have always used both nutrient and energizer in my meads but always step my energizer into 3 additions. I add 1/3rd the nutrient up front with all the other ingredients. I add another 1/3rd at an sg of about 1.060 and then the last 1/3rd at around 1.030 and this keeps the yeast nice and happy the whole while.


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## fatbloke (Oct 3, 2010)

Wade E said:


> Thats a bunch of bull. I have never boiled my honey and have won medals with mine. In my belief boiling the honey runs off some very delicate aroma factors from the honey. I have always used both nutrient and energizer in my meads but always step my energizer into 3 additions. I add 1/3rd the nutrient up front with all the other ingredients. I add another 1/3rd at an sg of about 1.060 and then the last 1/3rd at around 1.030 and this keeps the yeast nice and happy the whole while.


Concur with Wade..... never have boiled honey, there's no need. It's naturally anti-septic.

Some of my batches have all the nutrient chucked in at the getgo, more recently I've taken to staggering the nutrient - though I make sure that all of it is in the batch by the time of the 1/3rd sugar break - I understand that after that point, it's unlikely that the yeast will be able to take up chemical sources of nitrogen like DAP, so any additions after the 1/3rd sugar break should really be "organic nitrogen", say something like yeast hulls.

As for jet trying to work out the reason for the acetone/pear drops type smell, google is more likely to kick out an answer (and possibly even a cure/remedy) than a couple of books.....

regards

fatbloke


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## jet (Oct 3, 2010)

So far, I've come up with these possible causes:
1. Oxygen contamination-This seems unlikely since the problem occurred during fermentation.
2. Spoilage bacteria-I wrote the first failure off to this. The current batch received a standard dose of meta, so I wouldn't think this caused my current problem.
3. Stressed yeast-This seems like the most likely culprit, although I did add yeast nutrient and DAP. I added it all initially, instead of incrementally.

Jack Keller recommends bubbling oxygen thru the wine with an aquarium pump. He says it will always oxidize the wine and it may, or may not, remove the smell. Not a huge motivation to go buy a pump.


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## fatbloke (Oct 3, 2010)

jet said:


> So far, I've come up with these possible causes:
> 1. Oxygen contamination-This seems unlikely since the problem occurred during fermentation.
> 2. Spoilage bacteria-I wrote the first failure off to this. The current batch received a standard dose of meta, so I wouldn't think this caused my current problem.
> 3. Stressed yeast-This seems like the most likely culprit, although I did add yeast nutrient and DAP. I added it all initially, instead of incrementally.
> ...


Rather strange, as looking at the Lallemand/Lalvin yeast list, it shows that D47 is a low nitrogen/nutrient requirement yeast.

Earlier, I also looked up the acetaldehyde stuff, and their description was more like "green apples" and can be part of the fermentation process. Don't forget, some ferments can produce some pretty funky smells........

So I'm gonna suggest that you add some form of "organic nitrogen", like yeast hulls, and then just let it finish the ferment to see how that turns out......

regards

fatbloke


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## Wade E (Oct 3, 2010)

I agree with Fatbloke as to just ride this out and or get some Ghostex which is yeast hulls and add it but this really depends on where you are at with sg right now and what it would be by the time you got the Ghostex. Ive had many a wine give off peculiar smells during fermentation and in the end be just fine. the only time I really would start worrying is sulfur (H2S) as thats a true indication of stressed yeast.


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## fatbloke (Oct 3, 2010)

Wade E said:


> I agree with Fatbloke as to just ride this out and or get some Ghostex which is yeast hulls and add it but this really depends on where you are at with sg right now and what it would be by the time you got the Ghostex. Ive had many a wine give off peculiar smells during fermentation and in the end be just fine. the only time I really would start worrying is sulfur (H2S) as thats a true indication of stressed yeast.


which is exactly what I was thinking of Wade, hence looking at the yeast list to see what "they" said about the D47 - and that it being low sulphur/nutrient etc etc......

We'll have to wait and see what jet decides to do......

regards

fatbloke


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## jet (Oct 3, 2010)

fatbloke said:


> Rather strange, as looking at the Lallemand/Lalvin yeast list, it shows that D47 is a low nitrogen/nutrient requirement yeast.
> 
> Earlier, I also looked up the acetaldehyde stuff, and their description was more like "green apples" and can be part of the fermentation process. Don't forget, some ferments can produce some pretty funky smells........
> 
> ...


"Green apples" is not what I have. This is how the last batch started. I had never done mead before, so I decided to just wait it out. It only got worse.

I don't have any yeast hulls. All I have is yeast nutrient and DAP. Will either of those work?


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## Wade E (Oct 3, 2010)

Refresh my memory or update on the Sg at the minute please as I would never add any nutrient or anything with a very low sg unless it stopped fermenting.


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## jet (Oct 3, 2010)

Wade E said:


> Refresh my memory or update on the Sg at the minute please as I would never add any nutrient or anything with a very low sg unless it stopped fermenting.



Just took it, SG 1.003.


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## Wade E (Oct 3, 2010)

I would not add anything at this point as its almost done fermenting and anything added at this point might leave it in your wine if it doesnt settle out.


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## jet (Oct 4, 2010)

I don't reasonably expect this to turn out, but I'm feeling charitable so I'm planning on giving it to the first racking to shape up.


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## sergean2 (Oct 6, 2010)

Jet, did you use the same fermentation container as the last batch? It could be something in the container, especially if it is plastic. It also could be that the sanitizing process may not have removed all the "stuff" from the last attempt and if it was a bacteria that caused the first problem as you suspect, it may have carried over to this attempt. It doesn't take but a few bacteria under the right conditions to cause problems.


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## jet (Oct 6, 2010)

sergean2 said:


> Jet, did you use the same fermentation container as the last batch? It could be something in the container, especially if it is plastic. It also could be that the sanitizing process may not have removed all the "stuff" from the last attempt and if it was a bacteria that caused the first problem as you suspect, it may have carried over to this attempt. It doesn't take but a few bacteria under the right conditions to cause problems.



These days, I've been doing all my fermenting in the same glass carboy. I've made several successful batches of grape wine since my first mead attempt back in the spring.


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## sergean2 (Oct 6, 2010)

It might be some weird interaction between what is residual from the grapes and what is going on with the mead. Biology is unpredictable and what seems to us to be no big deal is everything to micro-organisms. Might want to try a new carboy, maybe a 1 gallon, to see what happens.


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## jet (Oct 6, 2010)

sergean2 said:


> It might be some weird interaction between what is residual from the grapes and what is going on with the mead. Biology is unpredictable and what seems to us to be no big deal is everything to micro-organisms. Might want to try a new carboy, maybe a 1 gallon, to see what happens.



I would hope there is no grape residue. When I rack out of the carboy, I rinse out the sludge, before cleaning it with a brush and faucet-mounted bottle washer. After it's clean, I rinse it with meta before putting it away. I also rinse it with meta again before I use it.

As for next time, I cannot say when, or even if, that will be.


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## jet (Oct 7, 2010)

On top of everything else, it now seems to be stuck (the SG hasn't changed since Monday). In my mind, this contributes to the diagnosis of a stressed fermentation. I'm going to sleep on it, but, barring any divine intervention, it's history tomorrow or Saturday.

Thanks everyone


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## Wade E (Oct 7, 2010)

What is it stuck at and what was the starting sg?


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## jet (Oct 7, 2010)

Wade E said:


> What is it stuck at and what was the starting sg?



Fri 24 Sep-1.086
Fri 01 Oct-1.004
Sun 03 Oct-1.003
Mon-Thu 04-07 Oct-1.002


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## Wade E (Oct 7, 2010)

Thats a decent residual sugar to have for a mead, Id have no problem with where its at right now myself!


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## jet (Oct 10, 2010)

Wade E said:


> Thats a decent residual sugar to have for a mead, Id have no problem with where its at right now myself!


The stuck fermentation would seem to indicate that the god-awful stench was caused by stressed yeast.

Call that the straw that broke the camel's back. It's history.



Thanks again everyone for your help!


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## fatbloke (Oct 10, 2010)

jet said:


> The stuck fermentation would seem to indicate that the god-awful stench was caused by stressed yeast.
> 
> Call that the straw that broke the camel's back. It's history.
> 
> ...


Well it's too late now, though I'm thinking that to check for H2S, isn't that were you stir it with a length of clean (shiny) copper pipe ? and if there is H2S in it, then it reacts with the copper and some of the sulphide attaches to the copper and it goes green/black very quickly.......

I can't recall your original recipe, but when it comes to nitrogen requirements etc, I was asking about that over at Gotmead some weeks back.

One of the best answers about that can be found here it's author, WayneB is very knowledgeable on stuff like that, so it might be worth having at working out the requirements of your next batch his way first.....

Or of course, just google for the JAO/Joes Ancient Orange recipe and give that a go. If you haven't already tried it, it's nice and straight forward, if you stick to Joes exact recipe, it's hard to go wrong (and you also have the luxury of being able to use cheap "store bought" honey).

dunno if any of that is any help...

regards

fatbloke


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## Wade E (Oct 10, 2010)

Tell me you didnt dump it again!


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## robie (Oct 10, 2010)

fatbloke said:


> ... though I'm thinking that to check for H2S, isn't that were you stir it with a length of clean (shiny) copper pipe ? and if there is H2S in it, then it reacts with the copper and some of the sulphide attaches to the copper and it goes green/black very quickly.......
> fatbloke



If you want to determine if it is H2S, fill a glass or cup about half full of the suspected wine; take a whiff of the wine to register the smell; place two shiny pennies in the glass; stir (well) the smelly wine around for about 30 seconds.
Take another whiff. If it is H2S, the smell should be much less.

Repeat this several times and the H2S smell should go away completely. This tells you you had H2S.


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## jet (Oct 10, 2010)

Wade E said:


> Tell me you didnt dump it again!



I'm afraid so. I wasted months on the last batch, and I have no reason to believe this one would turn out any different. I could not find any solution, and I know from last time that it won't clear up on its own. I was also concerned about contaminating my equipment.


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