# Cheap effective degassing vacuum?



## JDesCotes (Mar 5, 2014)

I'm fed up with my degassing rod breaking and am looking at investing in a degassing vacuum. 

I have heard people use everything from wine saver pumps to brake line Mityvac's to $200 allinone wine pumps.

What should I spend the money on to get it all done effectively?

Is there anything available at Home Depot or Canadian tire I can pick up that'll work? I want done way of measuring the amount of vacuum so I know that I'm not putting too much pressure on the carboy..

Ps: my wife is limiting my budget on this, but my birthday is coming up so I may be able to get her to budge a little if it's really worth it to go all out.


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## dralarms (Mar 5, 2014)

Well if you want my opinion, get the all in one wine pump. You will not regret it.

You can build something, you will have about 175.00 in it and it won't work as well as the AIO.


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## cmason1957 (Mar 5, 2014)

I have an all-in-one, but I don't use it to force degas, I just let time do it's thing as I rack and some gas comes out naturally. It takes about four rackings to remove it all, so after about 6 months, I have done four rackings and I have no more gas.


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## dangerdave (Mar 5, 2014)

I second that. I have used my allinone for nearly two and a half years. It has performed flawlessly, is very cost-effective, and Steve is a sharp guy. He's on it if you have any problems or questions. The allinone is great for transfering, filtering, and degassing. Thus the name!

You will not be disappointed. I have no financial interest in Steve's business, but like I tell everyone, if you don't love it, _I_ will buy it from you.


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## JDesCotes (Mar 5, 2014)

Is there anywhere cheaper than $200?


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## tshank (Mar 5, 2014)

I've had my all in one for only a few weeks, I can honestly say that is the best money I've spent in nearly ten years of brewing beer and making wine! Like others have said you can piece something together but you will spend nearly what it cost to buy the aio.. I looked for weeks finally after reading the review thread here, I ordered one. No regrets! You will love it!


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


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## sour_grapes (Mar 5, 2014)

You can get a really cheap vacuum pump from Harbor Freight. Not advising, just saying.

The pump from Harbor Freight is oil-sealed. Some say oil-sealed is okay. I personally use an oilless pump, for fear of contaminating my wine with oil vapor. I rigged up my own plumbing, etc., from commonly available nylon tubing, bungs, and racking canes.

I also pull a deep vacuum on my Italian carboys, so I don't think the gauge is really an issue for those vessels. YMMV. (In the past, when another person made such a statement, many on the forum castigated this person. To forestall such comments, I should say that I have very extensive and intensive experience with vacuum equipment and procedures.)


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## turkeylipz (Mar 5, 2014)

dralarms said:


> You can build something, you will have about 175.00 in it and it won't work as well as the AIO.




Pricing-wise you may be in the ball park but the statement regarding quality is completely subjective. It really depends on the individuals DIY skill right?
------------—

JDesCotes

Your highest sunk cost will be the pump. If you feel like fiddling I would go the DIY route. It sounds like, however, that you want a COTS product so you can jump right in. If that's the case I would say the All in One is probably the better value (time to $)

I am probably 170 in. That includes pneumatic parts from grainger that allow me to extend the pressure gauge and relief to the Carboy.


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## dralarms (Mar 5, 2014)

Well figuring in my normal wage versus time it would take ME to build something like the AIO. I can say it's cheaper for me to buy it. Besides Steve is a great guy to deal with and customer service is a big factor in any purchase.


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## WI_Wino (Mar 5, 2014)

I use a brake bleeder pump from Harbor Freight. It has a vacuum gauge attached. It's a fair amount of hand squeezing but it gets the job done. It really, really, helps to warm up the wine to mid 70s or so when you degass by hand.

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html#.UxevXYWwV-I


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## bkisel (Mar 5, 2014)

I use a hand Vacu Vin style pump. It takes me the course of 1-3 days, maybe 10-20 pump sessions a day, to degas a 6 gallon batch. Being a macho former Marine it is impossible for me to understand how anyone would choose to do it differently.




I really do think that manully degassing results in a far superior tasting wine.


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## JDesCotes (Mar 5, 2014)

Thank you everybody for your insights!



WI_Wino said:


> I use a brake bleeder pump from Harbor Freight. It has a vacuum gauge attached. It's a fair amount of hand squeezing but it gets the job done. It really, really, helps to warm up the wine to mid 70s or so when you degass by hand.
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html#.UxevXYWwV-I




I was looking at something like this originally. How long does it take to degas? also... How many pumps would you estimate?

The All in One is looking very good. Being able to rack from the floor is a HUGE bonus as I wouldn't have any chance of dropping the carboys on my cement floor... Plus I'm weary of keeping my carboys on my make shift ikea shelf... This is my setup last time I bottled:


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## grapeman (Mar 5, 2014)

Here is another option - a bit cheaper but not that much. You still need some hose to hook up to it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Medical...854?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d9a8d4be


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## WI_Wino (Mar 5, 2014)

JDesCotes said:


> I was looking at something like this originally. How long does it take to degas? also... How many pumps would you estimate?



Lots of pumps! I usually do a carboy over the course of a couple hours but I'll pump it up and let it sit. Then pump it up again, repeat. The first degassing session takes the longest.


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## dralarms (Mar 5, 2014)

JDesCotes said:


> Thank you everybody for your insights!
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Well for one thing you won't have the waste that you have now. When I was gravity filling I would loose 1/2 bottle or more due to the overflow problem and the fact the stupid thing didn't shut off all the time.

With the AIO I bottled 96 bottles at one time and I might loose a tablespoon. 




]


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## farmer (Mar 5, 2014)

In reality why do you need a vacuum pump to degas let nature take it's course. Bulk age in the carboy and there is no need to degas. Patience is a virtue.


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## MrKevin (Mar 5, 2014)

If you have a compressor you can get " the gas getter" for about $80+/-.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 5, 2014)

JDesCotes

If you have any questions regarding using vacuum - please pm me and we can talk over the phone. 
Yes some people are hesitant at first with the 200 dollar sticker shock, but the first time they use it they luv it. 

That is why I can put out a 30 day money back guarantee and a 1 year warranty !! 

There are not alot of things that have a 1 year warranty ?? Why not ??


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## dangerdave (Mar 6, 2014)

farmer said:


> Patience is a virtue.


 
Patience is for suckers. 

Hey, I knew Steve would show up for a plug!


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## olusteebus (Mar 6, 2014)

I splash rack with a vacuum and then use a brake bleeder. don't really spend a lot of time degassing.


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## Noontime (Mar 6, 2014)

The brake bleeder or VacuVin is definitely the cheapest, but it is A LOT of work (and very tiring unless you're a Marine  ) We have a vacuum bottle filler that we use to degas as well. I have a brake bleeder also that I'll put on afterwards and hold a vacuum overnight (and it has a gauge so I can confirm it's degassed).

It's really interesting how peoples experiences differ. We're in S. Florida so temps of our wines are always high, but we've spent years trying to figure out how to properly degas our wines. I'd let them site for almost a year and still it would be gassy. I'd degas (by agitation) and let it site for many many months and still it would be gassy. The vacuum is the only thing that has worked for us. I think it may be the high atmospheric pressure at sea level. That's the only thing I can think of. 

Good luck with your choice!


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## bkisel (Mar 6, 2014)

Noontime said:


> The brake bleeder or VacuVin is definitely the cheapest, but it is A LOT of work (and very tiring unless you're a Marine  ) We have a vacuum bottle filler that we use to degas as well. I have a brake bleeder also that I'll put on afterwards and hold a vacuum overnight (and it has a gauge so I can confirm it's degassed).
> ...
> Good luck with your choice!



Hey, I resemble that remark! 

I find that I can lessen the amount of hand pumping required to degas but this involves an extra rack into a bucket vs a carboy for stirring. Also, believe that sheet racking helps a bit in degassing. With all the AIO testimonials that have been posted it seems to me like vacuum racking is the most efficient method.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 6, 2014)

Here is the routine I have developed. (This is only practicable with a power vacuum pump; it would take massive amounts of work with a brake bleeder.) 

Make sure the wine temperature is in the 70s. Rack half of it into a carboy. Pull a vacuum. Rock/shake/slosh the wine around in the carboy. Repeat a few times. At this point, it will keep foaming for as long as you keep shaking, but no more gas is being evolved. (I monitor the gas coming out of the pump.) Now, repeat on the other half-full carboy. The wine is well-degassed at this point.


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## Noontime (Mar 7, 2014)

Sour grapes makes a good point...the biggest difference I see in electrically powered vacuum or hand powered is an electric pump is constant. When you pull a vacuum on the saturated wine, gas is pulled out of the liquid and diminishes or eliminates the vacuum. With a had pump you have to keep applying it but an electrical pump it just keeps pulling that vacuum. Much quicker.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 7, 2014)

Actually, although true, that wasn't exactly my point. The new element that I was introducing in my "scheme" outlined above was the half-full carboy. Having the carboy half full means that there is room to shake and slosh the liquid. (Think of shaking a half-full soda or beer can.) Very effective.

However, starting with a half-full carboy means there is 3 gallons of air in the carboy. All of that air must be eliminated before the sloshing is to commence. It takes a fair amount of time with an electric pump -- I couldn't imagine doing it with a brake bleeder.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 7, 2014)

I did the same experiment as noted above. It works well - I used marbles while under vacuum and realized all the co2 being released. That is a very similar set up as splash racking under vacuum - except you don't have to lift the carboy and the degassing is done while you are doing normal transfer - saving you time. 
I believe that splash racking under vacuum is the easiest and the most effective way to remove co2 


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Wine Making mobile app


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## dangerdave (Mar 7, 2014)

I use that "falling film vacuum begassing device" thing, which works wonders. I after a couple of rackings, the gas is all gone. No extra work required. I love it!


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## sour_grapes (Mar 7, 2014)

I also use a falling film degassing-while-racking method. However, empirically, it does not fully degas my wine. I still get lots more out using the method I described above.


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## turkeylipz (Mar 7, 2014)

dralarms said:


> Well figuring in my normal wage versus time it would take ME to build something like the AIO. I can say it's cheaper for me to buy it. Besides Steve is a great guy to deal with and customer service is a big factor in any purchase.






So it's about $175 to build something but if he bought the AIO it definitely would be better than anything YOU could make.


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## dralarms (Mar 7, 2014)

Well, yea. What I could make. But of course I don't have time to research and build everything I need. Id rather buy it and spend my time making money. Or wine if I don't have a job lined up.


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## farmer (Mar 7, 2014)

There is something called pride and accomplishment to build it your self, it has a value that is priceless.


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## olusteebus (Mar 8, 2014)

If you really want ot go cheap, you can get a 12 volt inflation pump (Harbor freight for about 8 bucks, gue a barbed 1/4 inch fitting over the intake hole and that creates a good vacuum. Google harbor freight 12 pump winemakingtalk and you may find it.


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## dralarms (Mar 8, 2014)

Does it include the bottling and release valve?

What mind of warranty do you have?
any instruction manual?

2 Hole stopper bung,?


Just a couple of questions on the one you posted:


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## Geronimo (Mar 8, 2014)

I use a Mityvac MV8020 Vacuum Brake Bleeding kit with a tapered, drilled silicone bung. I pull about 20 inches vacuum on my 6 gallon glass carboys and it degasses the wine gently and quickly. You can find the same tool for about $40 any place.


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## turkeylipz (Mar 8, 2014)

dralarms said:


> Does it include the bottling and release valve?
> 
> What mind of warranty do you have?
> any instruction manual?
> ...




That's three questions..;-)

The pump has a manufacturing warranty. No manual needed, since I built the system. No two hole bung needed since I either drilled my own or use a blow off stopper (they work great). 

One thing it doesn't come with is a kick back for being mentioned in posts regarding vacuum pumps- ;-)

Look, I'm sure that the AIO is a great device and Steve is responsive to customer needs...Im even cool when posts morph from discussions on vacuum to advertisements, but trying to convince people it's hard/impossible is a little silly and somewhat ironic. Like belonging to a board that is all about DIY wine but not DIY with other aspects. Like complaining about foreign policy with China and shopping at Walmart. Like....sorry. Off the soapbox.


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## JDesCotes (Mar 8, 2014)

turkeylipz said:


> That's three questions..;-)
> 
> The pump has a manufacturing warranty. No manual needed, since I built the system. No two hole bung needed since I either drilled my own or use a blow off stopper (they work great).
> 
> ...




I wish I were as handy as you. I'm still looking into options as I can't convince my wife that a $200 all in one is a required investment... 

Do you have any guides or information on what is needed and how to rug it all up?


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## dralarms (Mar 8, 2014)

Well, I'm not trying to advertise the AIO, just trying to answer a question asked. And I'm not as handy as you either. You look like you've built a nice machine but some people can't do something like that.

I like the all in one, it works great and it's compact enough to store out of my way.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 8, 2014)

turkeylipz
That is a nice set-up you made - 
I am all about DIY if done properly (safety precautions in place) 
Being a mechanic by trade - I am very handy and can fabricate most anything - I respect you for wanting to do it yourself. 

I sell attachments for those who have built there own vacuum pumps or bought them - 
like the bottling set-up with vacuum release valve - degassing cane w/bung 

Just last night I went to my brothers house and we racked,cleaned,sanitized and bottled over 200 bottles in a couple of hours.


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## Moose-tache (Mar 8, 2014)

Still using the automotive brake bleeder. Tedious but gets the job done.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 8, 2014)

JDesCotes said:


> I wish I were as handy as you. I'm still looking into options as I can't convince my wife that a $200 all in one is a required investment...
> 
> Do you have any guides or information on what is needed and how to rug it all up?



here is a link on how to make your own -
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/DIY-Vacuum-Pump.html


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## dangerdave (Mar 8, 2014)

Kickbacks?! Steve, where's my daggone kickbacks!!! 

I'm a firefighter. We are far better at tearing things down than building them up. For me, $200 is well worth the cost, not having the knowledge or time to fabricate a vacuum system of my own. My skills lie elsewhere. 

<not a paid endorcement>


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 8, 2014)

Dave 
I am a very fortunate person to have alot of support on this website !
I do not like talking how great my product is - after years of research and development. I enjoy when other winemakers are able to express their views - 

So Thanks to everyone who have commented or posted !! 

I had no idea when you gave the first review - that it will still be going strong today - Thanks again


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## upsidedown (Jun 26, 2014)

Has anyone tried stainless steel screws (cleaned and sanitized) in their wine during vacuum degassing to increase the release of CO2


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## olusteebus (Jun 26, 2014)

upsidedown said:


> Has anyone tried stainless steel screws (cleaned and sanitized) in their wine during vacuum degassing to increase the release of CO2



Does stainless do that?


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## WI_Wino (Jun 26, 2014)

I don't believe it is because the screws are stainless but rather that the screws would assist in giving the CO2 more nucleation points. You would have to shake the carboy I think while degassing in order to see any difference.


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## vacuumpumpman (Jun 26, 2014)

I have used marbles while under a vacuum and it worked good. But the best has been the aid of the splash racking cane


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## Geronimo (Jun 26, 2014)

Just pull 16-20 inches of vacuum and let it sit. You'll get all the CO2 out. You might need to do it a few times. Everything in wine making is better with patience.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 26, 2014)

upsidedown said:


> Has anyone tried stainless steel screws (cleaned and sanitized) in their wine during vacuum degassing to increase the release of CO2



What I have come to do is to fill a carboy only half full, pull a vacuum on it, and then shake it violently. This gets the CO2 out pretty quickly.

However, here are some salient points (no pun intended) from an earlier thread that discussed some of this: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/degassing-all-one-42560/index2.html 





sour_grapes said:


> However, the bubbles need to nucleate, that is, they need to reach a certain size, which favors their continued growth, rather than their dissolution back into the gas. The size where continued growth is favored over dissolution depends on both how much CO2 is dissolved, and what the isostatic pressure is. Bubble formation is greatly aided if there is a "nucleation point," that is, some asperity where the nascent bubble can get started.





Putterrr said:


> As was mentioned earlier, putting a brush in your wine will give your the nucleation point. Substitute a 3 inch galvanized nail and you will have the same thing and its much easier to clean. With a white wine, you can see the bubbles forming around the nail and streaming to the top. I'm still experimenting with the nail but so far the results are impressive.





sour_grapes said:


> I've been trying to think of a way to use glass with sharp edges, i.e., broken glass. I wanted to use glass to be sure it would be inert and impart no flavors. However, I cannot think of a reliable way to do this! A few weeks ago, we had people freaking out at the thought of drinking wine from a cracked carboy; imagine if we started using glass chips as degassing aids!
> 
> I don't know why, but the thought of putting a bottle brush in there bothers me. Your idea is interesting. Do you get any flavors from the zinc? (_p_H of wine is pretty acidic.) Hmmm, maybe something made out of stainless steel wire.....





BernardSmith said:


> I sometimes add a sanitized chopstick to help with nucleation





sour_grapes said:


> Believe it or not, I don't actually understand the physics behind what causes bubbles to nucleate at asperities. But that is certainly the observation, in fact, you can buy Champagne glasses that are laser-etched to produce a certain pattern of bubbles.
> 
> Okay, I just went googling, and one recurring school of thought is that bubbles nucleate where there are small pockets of gas trapped between, say, some cellulose fibers. CO2 diffuses into this air pocket, the pocket expands, and then the bubble breaks off. I can see why this might work. The presence of the pre-existing air pocket overcomes the nucleation barrier  I alluded to above. There is no need to nucleate a new bubble -- the existing one gives rise to a new one, repeatedly.
> 
> Soooo, maybe asperities are not what is required. Perhaps the important thing is air pockets. Makes the chopstick idea sound promising!


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## Geronimo (Jun 27, 2014)

Whenever the surface tension is lower (or imparts a shear component), heterogeneous nucleation will tend to occur. Just like electricity, the bubbles form in the area of least resistance. 

Having nucleation sites doesn't make the dissolution of CO2 happen, it's just more controlled. It would happen anyway. Even if you can't see it happening, CO2 will eventually "degas" itself to the nominal pH of the host liquid. Highly acidic beverages like Coca Cola (pH 2.5-2.8) will tend to hold their CO2 in the form of carbonic acid much longer than beer (pH 5.2-5.5).

Wine, having a pH of 3.0-3.3, needs some help to fully degas. Pulling a vacuum causes the carbonic acid to boil off.


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## upsidedown (Jun 27, 2014)

olusteebus said:


> Does stainless do that?



I was just talking stainless because it is easily obtainable. like the other posts suggest it was mainly about increase in nucleation


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## upsidedown (Jun 27, 2014)

Ok well I did a bit of googling around man I can't believe I used the word googling. And I found this short youtube video. Nice set up [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CZUkY8T4CY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CZUkY8T4CY[/ame]


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## sour_grapes (Jun 27, 2014)

Hey! They used a sintered stainless steel disk to provide the nucleation sites. The good news is that you can get a sintered stainless steel diffusion stone at your LHBS, because they are used in aeration of beer. Hmmm.... May have to try that.


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## Geronimo (Jun 27, 2014)

You want to be careful when degassing with vacuum, because you'll start to boil off alcohol at 20 inches of mercury. If your bubbles look small and tightly formed, like foamy, then it's CO2. As soon as you see larger bubbles that look a lot like boiling water, that's not CO2 any more.


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## DoctorCAD (Jun 27, 2014)

Takes about 27 or 28 inches of Hg to get anywhere close to a room tempersture boil of ethanol. Not too many home vaccum pumps can pull that


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## bkisel (Jun 28, 2014)

Geronimo said:


> You want to be careful when degassing with vacuum, because you'll start to boil off alcohol at 20 inches of mercury. If your bubbles look small and tightly formed, like foamy, then it's CO2. As soon as you see larger bubbles that look a lot like boiling water, that's not CO2 any more.



So the larger bubbles are gaseous alcohol? I see those after awhile when using my VacuVin wine pump to degas.

Thanx...


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## Geronimo (Jun 28, 2014)

bkisel said:


> So the larger bubbles are gaseous alcohol? I see those after awhile when using my VacuVin wine pump to degas.
> 
> Thanx...



That's what I do, and I haven't experienced any residual CO2 in anything. In fact I just pull 16 inches and when the foamy bubbling is minimal I quit.

I use a manual brake line bleeder for the vacuum, so I pull the vacuum and let it sit for an hour, come back and do it again... etc. Usually about the 3rd or 4th time I'm done. If you use an electric pump it shouldn't take more than an hour to degas. 

Think about it; if you open a can of pop, how long does it take to go flat?

The notion that wine can hold on to CO2 until you bottle and then release it is pretty hard to buy into.  If you make any effort, you'll get down to where you need to be. It's people that bottle too early or without making any effort to degas that can get in trouble.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 28, 2014)

bkisel said:


> So the larger bubbles are gaseous alcohol? I see those after awhile when using my VacuVin wine pump to degas.
> 
> Thanx...



I have no reason to think they are alcohol. As DrCAD points out, the vapor pressure of alcohol is pretty low. It would reach its boiling point at about 27 or 28 inHg. Not that things cannot _evaporate_ below their boiling point, but you won't see them nucleate bubbles.

Now, let's think about bubble size. Remember, a bubble that contains a given amount of gas will vary in physical size with pressure. That is, if you could somehow suspend a bubble, then lower the pressure of the vessel, the bubble would grow larger. (Boyle's Law, basically, PV = NRT.)

I don't know this, but I suspect the larger bubbles are just a result of attaining a lower pressure while nucleating CO2 bubbles containing the same amount of gas.


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## cooldood (Jun 28, 2014)

dralarms said:


> Well figuring in *my normal wage* versus time it would take ME to build something like the AIO. I can say it's cheaper for me to buy it. Besides Steve is a great guy to deal with and customer service is a big factor in any purchase.


You get paid to sit on the couch?

jk

I understand what you are saying. IMHO there is no one size fits all. 
Somethings for homebrewing I buy things because it is not worth the effort and I can afford it.

Other items I have fun building them and I do it not to save money but for the enjoyment of it.
So at the end of the day this should be about making wine and employing the tactics that suit your needs not others.


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## bkisel (Jun 28, 2014)

sour_grapes said:


> I have no reason to think they are alcohol. As DrCAD points out, the vapor pressure of alcohol is pretty low. It would reach its boiling point at about 27 or 28 inHg. Not that things cannot _evaporate_ below their boiling point, but you won't see them nucleate bubbles.
> 
> Now, let's think about bubble size. Remember, a bubble that contains a given amount of gas will vary in physical size with pressure. That is, if you could somehow suspend a bubble, then lower the pressure of the vessel, the bubble would grow larger. (Boyle's Law, basically, PV = NRT.)
> 
> I don't know this, but I suspect the larger bubbles are just a result of attaining a lower pressure while nucleating CO2 bubbles containing the same amount of gas.



So you're of the opinion that when you're vacuum degassing keep at it even though you're pulling up the bigger bubbles not anymore small ones? 

Thanx...


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## Geronimo (Jun 28, 2014)

I think we're missing the point. A can of soda or beer, once opened, degases itself completely without heat or vacuum. To degas your wine, you don't need to pull a high vacuum for a long time. Once you see the foamy little bubbles dissipate, the CO2 is gone.

In fact, if you aren't in a hurry, the wine will naturally degas itself just fine as it bulk ages.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 28, 2014)

bkisel said:


> So you're of the opinion that when you're vacuum degassing keep at it even though you're pulling up the bigger bubbles not anymore small ones?
> 
> Thanx...





Geronimo said:


> I think we're missing the point. A can of soda or beer, once opened, degases itself completely without heat or vacuum. To degas your wine, you don't need to pull a high vacuum for a long time. Once you see the foamy little bubbles dissipate, the CO2 is gone.
> 
> In fact, if you aren't in a hurry, the wine will naturally degas itself just fine as it bulk ages.



On this, I agree with Jim: degas until you reach the desired level of degassing. I am not 100% sure, but it probably does not require you to continue pumping on it in the "big bubble stage."

My setup allows me to monitor the amount of gas coming out. As I have mentioned before, I use a half-filled carboy and agitate it to speed the gas evolution. Since I am agitating, it is a little hard for me to know when I am in the "big bubble" stage, but this much is true: after 20 minutes or so, the actual amount of gas coming out is very small, even when bubbles are still being produced. (There is not much gas in the bubbles due to the PV=NRT relation referenced above.) Even though there is not much of it, I also taste the gas to get an idea of what it is. Believe me, it is CO2!


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## richmke (Jun 29, 2014)

I picked up a Schuco (medical aspiration) pump off Craigslist for $50. I then bought the tubing from All-in-One wine pump for $60 (vacuum wine bottle setup, racking cane for vacuum degassing while racking, and 5 feet of hose). The vacuum wine bottle setup is expensive because of the high quality brass relief valve. Tell Steve the size of the connector to your vacuum pump, and he will custom make the tubing.


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## Funksavage (Aug 20, 2016)

I bought the blichmann engineering degassing vacuum pump and degas kit and it pulls down to 650 mmHg, which is a little more than 25.6 inches. 1 Atmoshpere is 760 mmHg or 29.9 inHg. I'm seeing bubbles about 1/16" in diameter. This is my first attempt at vacuum degassing because I get tired of holding my drill and I don't want any more air getting to my wine. It has been almost a year and it's still not flat through bulk aging AND 20 minutes of whipping... Thus my splurging and experimentation. I'll let you know how it impacts the taste and if there is any alcohol left.


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## drainsurgeon (Aug 26, 2016)

I've been a member here for about 2 months now. I am really surprised at the effort some go to, to degas a carboy full of wine. For years I've made kits and degassed, in step 3, with a SS wand with w small paddles on the end. I whip the wine for 5-7 min (with a drill) while adding the fining agents and back sweetening. I've never had a cork push out or experienced a sparkling wine in over 70 kits.

That being said, I still ordered a AIO wine pump about 6 weeks ago. It does degas effectively, but I bought it so I didn't have to lift heavy carboys full of wine anymore. I had a couple of close calls over the years and it was just a matter of time until I had a disaster. I've seen pictures here of what happens when you drop a full carboy.

Big boys DO cry!


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## AZMDTed (Aug 26, 2016)

drainsurgeon said:


> I've been a member here for about 2 months now. I am really surprised at the effort some go to, to degas a carboy full of wine. For years I've made kits and degassed, in step 3, with a SS wand with w small paddles on the end. I whip the wine for 5-7 min (with a drill) while adding the fining agents and back sweetening. I've never had a cork push out or experienced a sparkling wine in over 70 kits.



Be thankful that whatever temperature, altitude, pressure, phase of the moon, time of day, Mars transiting Venus or whatever other magical combination your under let's you do degassing easily. For some of us, it's a major problem.

While I've never had a cork pop out or truly sparkling wine, I've had a lot of lousy tasting bottles that were too sharp only because of the residual CO2. Sadly this is one of those areas where if you don't have the problem it's too easy to minimize the challenge the rest of us face. I've been trying to figure it out for a year and a half and still haven't gotten it perfect. But it's either keep trying or give up wine winemaking. I'm leaning towards temperature and atmospheric pressure being the two most important factors. Room temp consistently over 75 during secondary appears to be key for me to successful degassing.


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## Mismost (Aug 26, 2016)

We seem to seldom discuss letting the wine breathe...open a bottle some time BEFORE you drink it.

As stated above, the CO2 will out gas on it's own, given the chance. Open a bottle, pour a smallish glass, plug the bottle top and give it a good shake...I may do that a couple of times...then let it sit for about 30 minutes to an hour. Taste the little glass you poured, I think it will amaze you how much better the wine gets in only 30 minutes...it smooths out and opens up. 

We preach TIME, give it more TIME all through the process. Then we pop the top, pour, and drink it just like a beer! A little more time at the opening is also worth investing in.

Not saying don't worry about CO2...we should be bottling very still wine and trying to elimenate CO2. But, if it's there, it ain't the end of the world.

Back to orginal topic...buy the time you buy a vacuum pump, the hoses, the fittings and go through the hassle...the All-In-One reprsents a complete package that is well thought out and exactly what you need. I did it both ways and prefer the AIO.


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## drainsurgeon (Aug 27, 2016)

AZMDTed said:


> Be thankful that whatever temperature, altitude, pressure, phase of the moon, time of day, Mars transiting Venus or whatever other magical combination your under let's you do degassing easily. For some of us, it's a major problem.
> 
> While I've never had a cork pop out or truly sparkling wine, I've had a lot of lousy tasting bottles that were too sharp only because of the residual CO2. Sadly this is one of those areas where if you don't have the problem it's too easy to minimize the challenge the rest of us face. I've been trying to figure it out for a year and a half and still haven't gotten it perfect. But it's either keep trying or give up wine winemaking. I'm leaning towards temperature and atmospheric pressure being the two most important factors. Room temp consistently over 75 during secondary appears to be key for me to successful degassing.



I guess I've just been lucky Ted. I mostly brew in the summer and the temps are warm at that time of year. I do believe that stirring the must during fermentation helps. I think that quit a bit of the co2 is removed with vigorous stirring during the primary ferment. The whip I use is quite effective however. It gets a 6 gallon batch spinning like a tornado in the carboy. I start slow (especially with reds) so I don't spew wine all over the kitchen LOL. I've had a couple of guiser's that made a good mess and taught me to go slow at first. I also use a 6 1/2 gallon carboy at first racking which gives me a little head space for degassing. Maybe we spin a little faster this far north??


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## Floandgary (Aug 27, 2016)

Mismost said:


> We seem to seldom discuss letting the wine breathe...open a bottle some time BEFORE you drink it.
> 
> As stated above, the CO2 will out gas on it's own, given the chance. Open a bottle, pour a smallish glass, plug the bottle top and give it a good shake...I may do that a couple of times...then let it sit for about 30 minutes to an hour. Taste the little glass you poured, I think it will amaze you how much better the wine gets in only 30 minutes...it smooths out and opens up.
> 
> ...



Application of the "TIME" factor is most evident when applied to bulk/carboy aging. I typically apply a year for reds and at least 6 mo. for whites. Natural degassing AND gravity clearing occur while you sleep!!! Save the drill for drilling


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## Hinermad (Aug 30, 2016)

I've been degassing with a handheld vacuum pump, the kind you use to evacuate plastic baggies. I think I paid $20 for it on Ebay. It has a tapered nozzle tip that I mush down into a hole in a rubber stopper in the carboy. Thumb the switch and watch the fizz! I stop it and break the seal occasionally so it doesn't end up sucking the stopper into the carboy. I only do that on glass though. It doesn't work very well with my plastic carboys. They want to collapse under the pressure.

I also modified an aquarium air pump to pull a vacuum. I use it with a Buon Vino bottle filler.

As you might guess, I'm a cheap so-and-so.


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## AZMDTed (Aug 30, 2016)

Hinermad said:


> As you might guess, I'm a cheap so-and-so.



I don't know if you're cheap with your money, but 5 posts in 7 years? Now that some stingy posting 

I just enjoy seeing what topics draw some people out.


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## Hinermad (Aug 30, 2016)

AZMDTed said:


> I don't know if you're cheap with your money, but 5 posts in 7 years? Now that some stingy posting
> 
> I just enjoy seeing what topics draw some people out.



I'm just getting back into making mead, and discovered I still had an account here from back when I first got started.


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## AZMDTed (Aug 30, 2016)

Excellent, welcome back


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## drainsurgeon (Aug 31, 2016)

Hinermad said:


> I've been degassing with a handheld vacuum pump, the kind you use to evacuate plastic baggies. I think I paid $20 for it on Ebay. It has a tapered nozzle tip that I mush down into a hole in a rubber stopper in the carboy. Thumb the switch and watch the fizz! I stop it and break the seal occasionally so it doesn't end up sucking the stopper into the carboy. I only do that on glass though. It doesn't work very well with my plastic carboys. They want to collapse under the pressure.
> 
> I also modified an aquarium air pump to pull a vacuum. I use it with a Buon Vino bottle filler.
> 
> As you might guess, I'm a cheap so-and-so.



I'm not sure how much of a vacuum you are drawing, but be careful not to implode a carboy. I've read other posts here that warn that its possible. The glass isn't that thick evidently. If you are drawing to the point of almost sucking a bung into the carboy, that might be too much. Some here even put a gage to measure the vacume and I remember the numbers correctly 24'-26" is plenty. Wouldn't want to see you get sucked into a bottle.


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## Hinermad (Aug 31, 2016)

drainsurgeon said:


> Wouldn't want to see you get sucked into a bottle.



Hah! Fat chance. (Literally)

But you're right, vacuum in a glass container is dangerous. I used to work on televisions back when they still used big picture tubes, which had vacuum inside, and I learned early on to respect those things. When one shattered it could be scary.

Whenever I'm using vacuum to degas I stop occasionally and let air back into the container. The saving grace to using the cheap aquarium pump is you can hear it bogging down when the pressure is getting too low.


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## StBlGT (Aug 31, 2016)

Anyone ever here of a fresh saver. It is used for sealing food and removing air from the bag. Seen a video on youtube of a guy degassing mead....seemed like it worked well.

Also, for those using a vacu vin, what procedure do you do. How much and how often?


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## Hinermad (Aug 31, 2016)

StBlGT said:


> Anyone ever here of a fresh saver. It is used for sealing food and removing air from the bag. Seen a video on youtube of a guy degassing mead....seemed like it worked well.



I use something similar called a Vacu-Seal. It looks like this:







The tapered nozzle fits into the hole in a rubber stopper, and as long as you hold it in place it seals well enough for the vacuum to draw out the gas. The tip also has a small moisture trap in it so if your product foams up it won't immediately contaminate the pump. I thought it might be good for starting siphons too but I haven't had a lot of luck with that.


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