# Too much headspace in carboy/secondary?



## Just-a-Guy (Nov 10, 2014)

Hi Folks,

I appreciate the help I got on my first attempt at wine. This is basically a recipe I found randomly (before even discovering this forum), really just organic grape juice, with some k-meta, champagne yeast, yeast nutrient, and corn sugar. I've learned a bit since, but trying to get something decent out of this first attempt. 

I racked out of the bucket to a carboy tonight, 9 days after start, with the SG at about 0.098 for several days. Left some lees in the bucket. It looks nice, smells good, and tastes pretty good (if tart). Problem is, I'm at least a gallon short of 5 gals in the carboy, so lots of head space. I was planning to leave it in the carboy for maybe two weeks, and rack it off again and maybe add some bentonite and then let it sit again for two more weeks or so. Then degas and bottle (toying with getting a filter, as well). Will it be ok with that much head space for that much time, or am I at risk of oxidation? 

One option - I started a second batch, a "Dragon's Blood" type thing with a frozen 4-berry mix, and four cans of concentrate mixed berry. I mixed up a little over 6 gals, and have 5 in a bucket. I put an extra gallon in a jug and put it in the fridge. I could top up the grape juice wine with that. It measured a fairly low SG, 1.075; I've been assuming the fruit would increase the sugar content as it sits, so that would be ok. But it would obviously "dilute" the grape juice wine (and alter the taste, which I could be ok with); and it still has sugar, so I assume there would be more fermenting.

Any thoughts would sure be appreciated!

Mark


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## sour_grapes (Nov 11, 2014)

I think you probably need to find a way to deal with that headspace. You could top with the DB, as you suggest, although I have no idea what that would turn out like. You could buy a number of bottles of cheap wine. Personally, I use $4 bottles of Frontera Chilean or Argentinian wine. Others here use cheap Carlo Rossi jugs (plus you get gallon vessels out of the deal!).

You could also invest in a 5-gallon carboy, and rack down.

By the way, your SG cannot be 0.098 as you reported. I am loathe to guess whether it is really 0.998 or 0.980 (big difference). You may want to take a look here: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7PAJaBsts"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7PAJaBsts[/ame]


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 11, 2014)

I would rack down or ad similar wine - I am working on something that hopefully that you won't have to go through all of this - will inform of you when the time is right 
.


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## Just-a-Guy (Nov 11, 2014)

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the replies. FYI, Steve, I think this is a 5 gal carboy (not a 6). I was thinking of getting a 3 today at the LHBS, and maybe a couple of one gal jugs. But it would be easier to top it up. If I top it up, I was thinking either my leftover DB (sweet, light, someone low SG), some organic apple juice (Indian Summer 100% Pure), or some wine. The latter is my least preferred option. What would you do???

And Paul - thanks, the SG is .998, thanks. (With beer, you don't usually see numbers that low, so I'm not used to it...) FWIW, I think it's still fermenting slowly at this point (no sorbates yet). 

Mark


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## DoctorCAD (Nov 11, 2014)

If you add sugar (like in apple juice or unfermented DB) the current batch will start fermenting all over again. You risk blowing the airlock and stopper off your carboy if it gets strong. Since you are already at "wine" level (.998) I'd opt for topping off with wine or getting a smaller carboy.


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## Just-a-Guy (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks, Doc. Yes, I realize it would restart fermentation. I guess I was kind of thinking it would be a relatively short fermentation, though (and I could easily put on a blow-off tube if it started acting up). I sort of thought it might also add some sweetener (which is needed), but not sure if all the sugar would end up "eaten" so maybe not. I just don't love the idea of adding wine to my homemade wine to make it wine...


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## Stoppadagrapes (Nov 11, 2014)

Be careful with carboy sizes. Some buy a 6 gallon pail of juice so many have a 6 gallon carboy I think. But there are also 5 gallon carboys . 

What you need is a smaller carboy/ Since I started making wine I had not looked into it since I had a temporary solution, commonly known, to buy glass marbles, sanitize them and put them in the bottom. Actually I used a sort of flatter glass like smushed marbles. They dont roll. 
Best to add many first to an empty contain gently putting them in while on its side and tipping them down rather than dropping them. Then when you have a layer covering you could add wine and see your level. Add more if needed. This can get you there but also takes time to clean up and store. 

I never liked the idea of topping off with: water or other wine. If it is "cheap wine" does it not make your wine then cheap? If good wine, does not that mean it is not really your wine if you add someone else's? I never have wine left from other years to add. 

Since I have started this, I now see other sized containers are out there. Maybe a 5 g or even this 4.75 looks nice http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/home-brew/18-liter-glass-jar.html?bstr=1


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## Just-a-Guy (Nov 11, 2014)

Thanks, all. I stopped by the LHBS this morning and picked up a 3 gal Better Bottle and a 1 gal jug, and stoppers to fit them both. Will rack it down this evening. I don't like breaking it up, but I like that better than the other options. 

Having the 3 gal got me thinking (rare) - nice to have, I can whip up a quick 3 gal batch of simple fruit wine in a bucket and rack it to this thing in 10 days and end up with case of something with less overall fuss. Cool. (Damn, now I have to get another one to rack off to mid-way...)


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## Just-a-Guy (Nov 11, 2014)

Well this is kind of annoying. I have avoided Better Bottles for years. Can't remember why, particularly, but just generally felt glass was better. Decided to try one today. Brought the thing home, heated up some water, and siphoned off into it. Below is the result.

OK, OK, yes, I know. It says right on the stupid thing, do not go above 140F. I guess I was above 140F, although I was well below boiling and thought I was just sterilizing for first use. OK, OK, I know, this is "not necessary". But it's been my habit for years, and I've never had a problem with a glass carboy before. This ridiculous piece of plastic shrunk up and deformed in mere seconds, siphoning hot water into it slowly. 

I'm not saying it's their fault. It's my fault, I ignored the warnings and didn't check the temp. What I am saying is, I'm certainly not bothering with any more of these things. I can sterilize a glass carboy by putting hot tap water in it, then funneling in some hot water from the stove, sloshing it around and dumping it out. Better Bottles, apparently no dice. Just another reason to keep plastic out of the process as much as possible.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 11, 2014)

I knew there was another reason other than vacuum using the BB - I must say -I did have a grin going when I looked at your pic


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## JimmyT (Nov 11, 2014)

I'm sure there are some on here that would save it a rack into it if they need a carboy that's "a little less" than 3 gal!!!!


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## peaches9324 (Nov 11, 2014)

JimmyT said:


> I'm sure there are some on here that would save it a rack into it if they need a carboy that's "a little less" than 3 gal!!!!



if it still sets properly YEP!


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