# Saving grape skins - is it worth it?



## ceeaton (May 13, 2015)

So I have a Merlot bucket. Added three 18 lb lugs of Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon and Malbec split into three paint strainer bags. The SG is rapidly dropping to the point I think I should be removing what is left of these grapes in the bags (bt. 1.020 and 1.010) so I can move and get under airlock (everything is currently in a 20 gallon brute).

My question is, do I need to do anything special to keep the leftover skins to add to a kit without them? I was just planning, after squeezing as much goodness out of the bags back into the brute, to bag them up into food saver bags, partially freeze with one end open, then "food save" and store in the freezer. Is this the procedure people normally follow? Am I wasting my time, is it better just to order a new grape pack?

And do I need to concern myself with the viable yeast that will survive the storing process when added to another ferment? FYI, I used CLOS yeasties.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, thanks.

PS. No pressure but I just checked and the SG is 1.022...I gotta get those things out of there tomorrow morning if possible.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 13, 2015)

I know alot of people who will save their skins to add to their juice buckets latter on. 
Just whatever you do - not press them much, or strictly by hand. This way it will really improve the juice buckets that you are after.


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## JohnT (May 14, 2015)

Sounds like you got a good plan. If the yeast is a concern, you could always hit the skins with a little k-meta after you defrost them/before use.


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## ColemanM (May 14, 2015)

It seems like you're pretty anxious to get the skins out of the juice. I let my wines go dry before I press. Then immediately toss the skins in the kit. Let them go dry too, and then some. Not wasting your time at all!! It will be worth it in the end.


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## ceeaton (May 14, 2015)

Thank you all for your quick replies! As it turns out I misread the SG last night, it was 1.022 this morning @ 74*F (hydrometer cal to 60*F), so I have some time. Grape bags are still floating just fine. Could jump on top and have a picnic lunch on them (if I bathed in Kmeta).

@vaccumpumpman - Will not over press, squeezing only. Looking for a press at yard sales but in no hurry.

@JohnT - adding Kmeta...maybe even before I freeze them, sounds like a good course of action, thanks.

@ColemanM - not necessarily in a rush to remove the skins, but to get it out of the brute and under airlock. Remember, I'm a brewer and we get funny about those things. I'm starting to mellow out a little, so if I wait till about 1.000 and remove the skins and transfer to carboys I should be okay.

Another question. It looks as though the leftovers will fill one paint strainer bag pretty well at this point. Should I use the whole lot of them to put in another batch, or break it up into smaller quantities? ie., if I make into smaller packs will they still make an impact on the wine I end up putting them in? Was planning on getting a Selection Series red (not sure exactly which one yet) and adding used skins to the kit. 

Thanks again.


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## JohnT (May 14, 2015)

K-meta is a strong oxidizer. I would be concerned what that may do to your skins (even while frozen). I would simply freeze them and add kmeta when you have pulled them out and thawed them (prior to re-use).


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## ceeaton (May 14, 2015)

True, never thought about it that way, that's why you guys are here! Kmeta after thawing. Either that or use same yeast (CLOS). I really do like the fermentation characteristics of this yeast so far. I just hope the final product tastes as good as it smells while it has been fermenting. Guess I'll have to sneak a taste tonight to see.


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## ceeaton (May 14, 2015)

I checked a few minutes ago and the SG was 1.014 @ 73*F. I think I'm going to pick up a red kit tomorrow at my LHBS and make it as soon as I get home. That way I don't have to mess with freezing the left over skins. I can add some Kmeta and let them soak in the new kit overnight and pitch the yeast Saturday morning. 

Now to decide which kit I buy...Lower end like a Diablo Rioja or one of the Selection Series? Would think either of them would be drinkable before the Merlot.

Edit: Hey, can I pitch some of the gross lees from my Merlot into the kit, or might I risk contamination? I do it for beer batches, have been known to bottle some of it up in a sterilized mason jar and keep refrigerated for a few weeks. Any thoughts, or am doing something really stupid to save $1.99 in yeast?


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## Angelina (May 14, 2015)

Hi Craig, I wouldn't pitch gross lees into a new kit, sometimes I will use the lees to make a "seconds" wine. I add x gallons of juice to my fermenter along with some nutrietts and the lees and away it goes. Or I will make skeeter pee.


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## sour_grapes (May 14, 2015)

I personally would have no qualms about transferring the lees as you suggest. I cannot imagine any ill coming of it.

However, what about carboy space? Can you handle that much wine in that much time?


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## ceeaton (May 14, 2015)

Okay, I've got some RC212 here or could pick up a BM4x4 tomorrow. Thanks for the response.


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## roger80465 (May 14, 2015)

Angelina said:


> Hi Craig, I wouldn't pitch gross lees into a new kit, sometimes I will use the lees to make a "seconds" wine. I add x gallons of juice to my fermenter along with some nutrietts and the lees and away it goes. Or I will make skeeter pee.



I have put a fresh kit on the lees without concern. I have done it a couple times and have been more than satisfied satisfied with the results. I have done it with a chianti and a barolo and an Amarone. They are all terrific.


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## Angelina (May 14, 2015)

roger80465 said:


> I have put a fresh kit on the lees without concern. I have done it a couple times and have been more than satisfied satisfied with the results. I have done it with a chianti and a barolo and an Amarone. They are all terrific.



I guess I had never though about it that way, but I can see how it could be a way to add another layer or note affect to a new kit.


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## ColemanM (May 15, 2015)

I feel the skins if tossed into the freshly prepped kit are more than enough to get it working again within the hour even. That being said I have also done it on the lees but smelled a little off at first. Then again spent lees isn't very great smelling to begin with. I would buy both kits. Put two bag in the Diablo and one in the higher end kit. That's just me.


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## JohnT (May 15, 2015)

I remember making "second runs" in my earlier days. I took the pressed skins from the press, mixed them with sugar and acid, and it was very actively fermenting within an hour or two. 

In other words, the skins are definitely more than enough to get your kit going.


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## roger80465 (May 15, 2015)

Angelina said:


> I guess I had never though about it that way, but I can see how it could be a way to add another layer or note affect to a new kit.



I should also add to this. I always add yeast nutrient and a fresh yeast when I do that. I don't want to take a chance on stressing the yeast. I will often add a different yeast than what was used in the original kit just to add a different flavor.

The Italians do it all the time. They place fresh grapes on Amarone lees and call it Valpolicella Ripasso.


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## ceeaton (May 15, 2015)

Bags are still floating and the SG is 1.002, so I'm still good. Ended up getting a VR Diablo Rojo since the stop before the LHBS was to pick up my wife's car and pay the $200 bill. There will be more skins and a chance for a better kit in the fall, I hope. The Diablo Rojo is probably one of the better VR kits, so I can't complain too much. Now for some minor tweeks.

I did get about .75 L from a Global Vintners Reserve Red grape pack for free that Brad had used 1/4 of for some project (like 62 brix or so). So I plan on that, the grape skins and got a BM4x4 just in case the yeast on the skins don't make it take off. Also got 1lb of medium French oak chips for the Merlot, just have to figure out how many oz. I'll use. Looks like there is plenty of oak shavings in the Diablo Rojo kit.

So time to get my 16 yr old son to help me lift this 20 gallon brute somewhere I can siphon from. Have the allinone pump on my wish list, maybe Christmas? As a beer brewer I'll be happier when this batch is under airlock(s).


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## ceeaton (May 15, 2015)

ColemanM said:


> I feel the skins if tossed into the freshly prepped kit are more than enough to get it working again within the hour even. That being said I have also done it on the lees but smelled a little off at first. Then again spent lees isn't very great smelling to begin with. I would buy both kits. Put two bag in the Diablo and one in the higher end kit. That's just me.



Mixed up the Diablo kit, squeezed skins, added 2/3rds to kit, set aside. Temp was 84*F w/SG 1.100 (ouch)(1.103 adjusted). Had 16 yr old son help me move merlot brute to kitchen counter top (he's bigger and stronger and eats more, luckily doesn't like wine yet but is intrigued with the fermentation process, did a paper at school on it). Started siphoning brute wine to 2 x 5 gallon sanitized carboys.

Had locked lid down on kit bucket to keep nasties out until I could prep BM4x4 yeast. Never got there. I expected the bucket to be sucking air in through the airlock as it cooled, but no, it's spewing CO2 out.

@ColemanM - You earn the Red Wine God (RWG) award for the day. Quoted:

*"I feel the skins if tossed into the freshly prepped kit are more than enough to get it working again within the hour even."*

Thought to myself there would not be enough yeast in the skins to innoculate a 23L batch, especially to show life within the hour, I stand corrected.

Thank you! (I kneel and grovel humbly at your feet)

Poured a glass of Sangiovese, sat down and am enjoying the end to a very successful day. May the promise that tomorrow holds come to fruition.


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## ColemanM (May 16, 2015)

You did the right thing tossing in 2/3 the skins. I bet you will end up darn near a commercial equivalent bottle when it's done. Let me know how you think it tastes. I have muddled over that kit but always went with the premium kits. I've really been getting into Italian and Spanish wines lately. Something about that subtle cedar taste I really enjoy.


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## ceeaton (May 16, 2015)

I have to tell you, the smell of the oak and red grape wafting through the kitchen almost made me pour a glass of my Sangiovese at 9 am this morning. There is really a lot of oak with that kit for such a low end kit. Maybe it covers up some flaws? Who knows, but those skins should bump it up a notch.

Just added some french oak to the Merlot carboys pre-MLF. Gotta give it something to attach to. Let the wife take in a deep breath of the oak, she actually liked it. I'll convert her to an oaked Chardonnay yet! Reds will take some time. No rush, she let's me make a few wines that I prefer, so I have no complaints.


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## ceeaton (Nov 7, 2015)

Update, a week shy of 6 months. Sacrificed a bottle tonight. Well worth the sacrifice. Very heavy mouth feel to this one. Never had the kit without the tweeks so I can't compare, but the mouth feel is approaching the Forza I have in the secondary. Definitely heavier than the Sangiovese. Still would like to try without the added sugar pack. Not offensive, just like my reds bone dry. Oak, cherry and alcohol in the nose. Oak isn't "in your face" like it was a few months ago. Still a little young and tangy, need to let it warm a little more (in the low 50s right now) to let some of the red fruit express itself.

Really enjoyable, hoping it will improve over the next few months. At 15.3% ABV I'm sure I won't finish the bottle tonight. I'll open another bottle around Christmas and comment further then.


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## BlueStimulator (Nov 8, 2015)

As a newbie, posts like these over the process of making are a huge help


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