# Superyeast x-press - Can it really ferment 20% ABV?



## BigMac (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello All;

Wondering if anyone has tried using the Superyeast A-Press Yeast.
It is advertised as being able to ferment 20% ABV.

The first time I tried it I was in a rush and thought I followed the directions and the result ended up at around 13% ABV.

So this time I decided to measure the SG and potential alcohol before getting it started.

When I follow the directions, what do you know, the SG is 1.1 which gives an ABV of 13.5%.
The directions are 17.5lbs sugar to 6.5gal of water.

The way I see it is impossible to get any more than 13.5% out of the sugar/water ratio they recommend.

At least that is the way I see it. 

Does anyone have any comments before I add more sugar to bring the SG up to 1.25 for a potential alcohol of 20%.

Thanks!!


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## grapeman (Nov 20, 2011)

If you start higher than that, fermentation probably won't begin and that's why they give you that starting point. You need to continue feeding the active fermentation more sugar and yeast nutrient. If done correctly (and with some luck), it can get that high. The problem is that the higher it gets, the more byproducts are formed which make it a bit harsh. When done, use a charcoal snake (filter) to clean it up the best you can. 

Be careful as this can lead to potential headaches and unwanted pregnancy.


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## Wade E (Nov 20, 2011)

If you are making wine or something flavored though do *NOT* use the carbon filter as it will strip color and all the flavor as thats what its designed to do!


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## BobF (Nov 20, 2011)

Is that xtra 2% that important? 1118 can get you 18% ... and do it pretty clean


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## BigMac (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello Grapeman - Good Call!!

My math says that 26lb of sugar should get me to 20% so I will gradually add the rest in over the fermenting period.

Using the same process for making wine by adding nutrient over time is a good idea too.

I will be adding abut 20lb of pressed grapes which have also gone through a second run. This will give it a give it a good starting base for flavor.

Hello Wade – It sure would, but I’ll add flavor after it is cleaned up.

Thanks guys!


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## Wade E (Nov 20, 2011)

What are you trying to make as after the carbon youll really have to add a lot of flavor


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## BigMac (Nov 20, 2011)

Hi Wade - Ahhh, well, ya know...


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## Wade E (Nov 20, 2011)

At this abv you are not doing anything illegal so dont worry!


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## AlFulchino (Nov 20, 2011)

i have an observation and question...while the answers provided are sound they didnot really address the initial question about this yeast....has anyone used it...if it is touted as a super yeast then i am assuming that it *will* start in an high sugar environment ***or*** it is a yeast that needs to be inserted as Rich said..during a point where a ferment has already started and then w sugar added it is capabple of going to 20% etc...sounds like google search time


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## buddy (Nov 20, 2011)

Looking at your numbers, 17.5 pounds of sugar in 6.5 gallons of water works out to 2 pounds 11 ounces of sugar per gallon. 
According to the hydrometer chart this should give you a reading of 1.120 sg. and a potential alcohol of 16.4%.
You are only reading 1.100 sg. so I think one or more of your measurements are in error or else the sugar is not fully dissolved in the water.
I used this chart to determine the values. http://www.home-winemaking.com/winemaking-2b.html Use the chart for American gallons.


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## Wade E (Nov 20, 2011)

I have used similiar to this with the Turbo yeast which is supposed to have the same tolerance and it has nutrients already in it and that yeast left a very strong nasty taste in the after product to the point where carbon had a very hard time getting it out!!!!


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## cpfan (Nov 20, 2011)

I have made plain alcohol from Turbo Yeast before, but not in quite a while. I can't find any sg notes on the process.

It was an '8kg Turbo Yeast'. That means 8kg (17.6 lbs) of sugar to make 6 US gallons (23 litres). I recall that the yeast typically fermented down to around .990

So my handy-dandy calculator says an sg of 1.140 would reach about 20%. 

(1.140 - .990) * 133 = .150 * 133 = 19.95%.

Steve


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## BigMac (Nov 20, 2011)

*Excellent discussion*

A couple of good points have been made.
Al hit it on the head, is there any research or facts or experience on actual fermentation of this yeast. I spent a lot of time on the web and could not find anything, thus the reason I started the thread.
Steve I agree with your math but the chemistry doesn’t work out. I saw their statement too but the thing is that water has an SG of 1.0 and BRIX = 0 at an SG of 1.0, so I don’t see how you can get less than that. At 1.0 you have dry wine, there is no sugar left. 
So maybe their advertising of 20% ABV is just marketing based on bad chemistry and bad math. Hmmm…


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## buddy (Nov 20, 2011)

BigMac said:


> A couple of good points have been made.
> Al hit it on the head, is there any research or facts or experience on actual fermentation of this yeast. I spent a lot of time on the web and could not find anything, thus the reason I started the thread.
> Steve I agree with your math but the chemistry doesn’t work out. I saw their statement too but the thing is that water has an SG of 1.0 and BRIX = 0 at an SG of 1.0, so I don’t see how you can get less than that. At 1.0 you have dry wine, there is no sugar left.
> So maybe their advertising of 20% ABV is just marketing based on bad chemistry and bad math. Hmmm…



Alcohol has a different density than water so a dry wine will finish with a SG. under 1.000.
Because this will be a high alcohol product the finish gravity should be about .990. 
The difference between a gravity of 1.000 and .990 is 1.3% alcohol.


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## BigMac (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello Buddy;
Well, you are right on that account. For kicks I measured the SG of some 40% vodka, the Hydrometer dropped like a stone! Ha Ha.

But it really doesn’t answer the question of how much sugar is required to reach a potential alcohol of 20%. 

The issue is not the measuring, the issue is how much sugar is needed.

You posted a good link earlier and here is another.
http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm

This is not rocket science, sugar converts to alcohol. Based on the charts the company should be recommending 22 lbs. of sugar to get to 20% ABV and they are recommending 17.5 lbs which can only get you to 14.5%.

Certainly a great conversation all around.
Jim


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## cpfan (Nov 20, 2011)

BigMac said:


> Steve I agree with your math but the chemistry doesn’t work out. I saw their statement too but the thing is that water has an SG of 1.0 and BRIX = 0 at an SG of 1.0, so I don’t see how you can get less than that. At 1.0 you have dry wine, there is no sugar left.



BigMac:

I've made a lot of wine kits (ran a Ferment on Premises) and they nearly all finished under 1.000. Vineco & Winexpert kits typically finish about .992. RJ Spagnols kits about .995. I haven't made a lot of grape skin kits, but based on memory, those tended to finish a bit higher (say .998).

I also made a number of batches of alcohol in the FoP. I used 8kg of table sugar (I charged customers for the sugar) to make 23 litres (6 US gallons). Note that's less than 6 US gallons of water because the sugar takes up a bit of space. Based on the experienced sg readings, I was telling customers that it would be about 19%. Sorry I didn't send any of the results to a lab for analysis.

Steve


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## grapeman (Nov 20, 2011)

I have made a number of batches of this and I followed the procedure I outlined previously. I did not begin fermentation with anything else, but did not all the total amount of sugar at the beginning. I would let it get roaring along and then add a couple pounds at a time until it was all in. I don't have the exact amounts here, but I would add it an additiona two times along with a bit of nutrient to keep the yeast happy. I never had a stuck batch so I was satisfied with the results.


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## grapeman (Nov 20, 2011)

While it does not go to 20% alcohol, this link is very handy when you want to know how much sugar to add to juice to make common wine.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/hydrom.asp


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## buddy (Nov 20, 2011)

BigMac, I think that all the advice that you have been given is good.
The starting gravity of 1.140 that cpfan suggested is on the money to produce 20% alcohol.
Also the point made by grapeman about feeding the sugar in small quantities is valid.
So the only question is how much sugar do you need in total. The hydrometer chart link that I posted does not go up to a gravity of 1.14 but you can extrapolate the values by using a gravity of 1.07 (9.5% alcohol) and then multiplying by two to get the number you need.
For a gravity of 1.07 you need one pound nine ounces of sugar per gallon. This works out to 1.5625 pounds per gallon. Multiplied by 6.5 gallons equals 10.156 pounds. multiplied by two to extrapolate the gravity to 1.14 the total amount of sugar is 20.312 pounds. (20 pounds 5 ounces).


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## mmadmikes1 (Nov 20, 2011)

Ok now what I do: I start with 1118 and take it to max by step feeding sugar. This avoids a lot of the nasty off flavors. After I have maxed out the 1118 I will add turbo yeast and step feed it until. It is maxed out. Then I add a hell f-pak because the rocket fuel has little flavor and sometime it will ferment a little more. Because I really don't carter what the final number is I don't bother with taking readings and doing math, but is some really hot stuff and will mess people up. There is no need to add sorbate or K-Meta to this rocket fuel. It can not re-ferment. I guess I get real close to 23%


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## garymc (Nov 21, 2011)

So it looks like about 22 pounds of sugar in 6.5 gallons of juice gets around 20% abv. But since you have to add the sugar in parts you don't ever see a sg with all the sugar present and unconverted. This would be fine since 22 pounds is 22 pounds, but part of that 22 pounds is the sugar that was already present in the juice naturally. Does anybody have a range of equivalent ounces of sugar per gallon that might be found in muscadine (or other grape) juice?


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## mmadmikes1 (Nov 21, 2011)

If you check sg before adding more sugar and after you just keep adding difference to starting number then at end calculate away


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## grapeman (Nov 21, 2011)

garymc said:


> Does anybody have a range of equivalent ounces of sugar per gallon that might be found in muscadine (or other grape) juice?


Check the SG of the juice prior to fermentation and use the chart I showed the link to on the last page from Jack Keller. That will tell you how many ounces of sugar are in that specific gravity.


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## garymc (Nov 22, 2011)

That's what I thought.


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## BigMac (Nov 22, 2011)

Here is an excerpt from the link sent by Grapeman which I think this summarizes our discussions.
"Accurate alcohol content cannot be calculated using a hydrometer alone because the actual S.G. of pure alcohol is 0.792, not 0.990 as most hydrometers read. However, if you accurately measured your must's S.G. before yeast was introduced and fermented it to an S.G. of 0.990, racking as required, your calculation should be accurate to 1%."

I think the conclusion is that the Superyeast A-Press Yeast, Sugar:ABV% ratio information is incorrect.

Thanks to all for the dialog.

Fermentation has kicked off. I am going to slowly add sugar up to 22lbs and additional nutrient. In a while I will let you know what the final ABV turns out to be.

Jim


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## BigMac (Sep 29, 2012)

*test Test*

test Test Test


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## seth8530 (Oct 1, 2012)

Extrapolating data from the sugar vs potential alcohol data ( this can be a little lossy) I get that we need 3.25 lbs of sugar per gallon to hit 20% abv.. or 21.125lb for 6.5 gallons. However, I'm not sure if the table I grabbed the data from accounts for volume displacement of sugar or not.


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