# My Chilean grapes, low PH before pitching MLB



## geek (May 18, 2016)

Decided to enter a new thread.
Small batch, blend of Carmenere and Cab Sauv (3-2 ration)

Crushed and blended, mixed thoroughly. Let it sit for 24 hours and stirred well.

PH showed *~3.32*
Left alone and pitched D254 on Saturday.

Must temp in the low 70s.
Punching down a few times daily, today checked PH and it is *~3.18*

Fermentation still going but should be done in a couple days (haven't bothered to check SG).

Assuming the PH may drop even more, I'm afraid the malo culture may not work in such a low PH. 

Would you guys adjust PH up before pitching MLB?
I only have potassium bicarbonate handy.


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## Johnd (May 18, 2016)

geek said:


> Decided to enter a new thread.
> Small batch, blend of Carmenere and Cab Sauv (3-2 ration)
> 
> Crushed and blended, mixed thoroughly. Let it sit for 24 hours and stirred well.
> ...



Were it me, and assuming you're using VP41, since you're getting down close to the bottom of the range, I'd check it again just prior to pitching MLB and adjust it up into safer range a bit, without overdoing it. As long as you get MLF to go off, you can always adjust Ph further upwards later to your taste buds.


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## ceeaton (May 18, 2016)

Varis, I thought you would get a false pH reading if there is still CO2 in solution (ie. it is still fermenting). I'd degas a sample and check that before you make any changes. What MLB are you thinking of using? Though it is not necessarily meant for red wines, I used a CH35 strain on my Chardonel and Dornfelder this fall because I was too cheap to buy a different strain of each. If I remember correctly (at work, no notes) the Chardonel was below 3.2 pH and I don't notice any strange flavors I can attribute to the MLB doing it's thing in the Dornfelder. Chardonel tastes great (less filling).


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## geek (May 18, 2016)

I was planing to use Wyeast 4007 because this is a small 6gal batch and VP41 is like $32 and I have to drive 40 miles round trip to get it 

So...I am now trying to decide asap because if I happen to order a different strain online is may not be at my house on time. That CH35 is primarily used for Rose and whites, so wondering if taking the chance with this red blend.


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## ceeaton (May 18, 2016)

geek said:


> That CH35 is primarily used for Rose and whites, so wondering if taking the chance with this red blend.



Yes, it does say on MoreWinemaking's site that it can be used successfully for reds, but it is intended for white and rosé production. I think the definition (of sucessfully) might be to successfully reduce the malic acid and not do to much in the way of additional flavor enhancement. Like I said in the earlier post, it did work on my Dornfelder, which reminds me the most of a Cabernet Franc in flavor profile, a very dark almost inky red wine and it is rated to go down to 3.0 pH.

And I did have enough confidence in CH35 to use it on my Pinot Noir bucket and grapes this Spring.


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## geek (May 18, 2016)

Thanks Craig, will check more into it as long as morewine can ship tomorrow and I get it on time by Saturday, otherwise vp41 may be my best option 40 miles round trip.


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## ceeaton (May 18, 2016)

geek said:


> Thanks Craig, will check more into it as long as morewine can ship tomorrow and I get it on time by Saturday, otherwise vp41 may be my best option 40 miles round trip.



MLB addition can wait a few days, even if you can't get it until Monday you should be fine.


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## sdelli (May 21, 2016)

First I would try to get the must temp up over 80 for a day or two... Get that good stuff extracted. Then after the press put it through a short cold stabilization for a couple weeks if you have a frig to do that.Then mlf


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## WI_Wino (May 21, 2016)

Also make sure your sample is fully degassed. The co2 in suspension can alter your pH reading. 

RiteBrew has the best price by far for MLB. $12 for the 1 step version. 

http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/830724.htm


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## geek (May 21, 2016)

I did heat up a small sample in the microwave, to about 99F and the PH seemed to be right at 3.20 on that sample.
I pressed yesterday and just racked off the gross lees this morning. Checked the PH and it was ~3.13 but the must was cold in the low 60s because I left the bucket outside overnight.

I think I am going to add just a bit of what I have handy now, potassium bicarbonate, to raise the PH to the 3.3x range, then pitch the malo.


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## TonyR (May 21, 2016)

What is the Ta?.? The acid is much more important than the Ph, unless it is very high.


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## geek (May 22, 2016)

TonyR said:


> What is the Ta?.? The acid is much more important than the Ph, unless it is very high.



It was in the close or .9 range or so based on my test with a ph55 meter.

Added a total of about 5 teaspoons of Potassium Bicarbonate (one at a time and checking) and stirred well to the point where the PH showed ~3.34

Left alone for over 1 hour, stirred well again and the PH was ~3.46, ufff, almost over shot because I wanted to be in the close to 3.38 range, maybe 3.40 but I think it's fine now.

Pitched MLB, placed brew belt and the clock just started....


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## Tnuscan (Aug 3, 2016)

geek said:


> It was in the close or .9 range or so based on my test with a ph55 meter.
> 
> Added a total of about 5 teaspoons of Potassium Bicarbonate (one at a time and checking) and stirred well to the point where the PH showed ~3.34
> 
> ...



How did/is the MLF on yours doing?


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## geek (Aug 4, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> How did/is the MLF on yours doing?



Funny you ask, last night is when I started the chrome test and placed the paper in the garage this morning to dry, so we'll see later today.

Meanwhile, I decided to transfer to the 6gal oak barrel and added 1/4 tsp k-meta since I don't want to keep this wine unprotected for a longer time, small sip last night reveals that this wine is pretty much done with MLF, we'll see later when I check the paper.

pH showed ~3.50 when I racked, so this is good for me...

.


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## geek (Aug 4, 2016)

Here's the chromo test results.
A bit of malic but mostly done.

Sulfite and went to oak barrel.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 4, 2016)

Wish mine looked like that. 

VP41 arriving tomorrow though.


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## Tnuscan (Aug 4, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Wish mine looked like that.
> 
> VP41 arriving tomorrow though.



No Don Ho this time. ::


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 4, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> No Don Ho this time. ::



That might have been my downfall.


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## geek (Aug 5, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Wish mine looked like that.
> 
> VP41 arriving tomorrow though.



I used Wyeast 4007 mlb, I found this bacteria would do the job but the pH has to be within a good range, like for any other bacteria I guess, but this one is more picky and it takes a bit longer than VP41.


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## Johnd (Aug 6, 2016)

Here are my Chileans, about a month in, Malbec on the right, Cab/Malbec blend second from right, Cab third from right. Hope they fare better than the Zin which has been going for 4 months and has been dosed twice.


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## geek (Aug 6, 2016)

John, 4 months is a long time.
I'd be panicking by now and sulfite it to call it a day, but that's just me.


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## Johnd (Aug 6, 2016)

geek said:


> John, 4 months is a long time.
> I'd be panicking by now and sulfite it to call it a day, but that's just me.



Varis, I laughed when I read that! I check on it regularly, just looking for signs of anything out of the ordinary floating on top, all good. I'm a bit of a sanitation freak, so that's comforting. When I stir the MLB, I always give it a whiff, great there too. I am nervous but trying to be patient. My patience is pretty much going to end tomorrow....... Will raise pH when it goes into a barrel and try again.


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## geek (Aug 6, 2016)

You may already know but be really careful and raise it with very little additions of whatever you're using, overshooting is VERY easy..!!
Add a bit, stir well and leave alone for an hour or so, then stir well and recheck the pH again.
I found this the hard way..LOL

Thank God I did this with this batch, the pH will definitely show a different number once you mix well again after the wine sits for an hour or two.
What do you plan on using?

I used potassium bicarbonate (needs cold stabilize) which is what I had handy.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## Johnd (Aug 6, 2016)

geek said:


> You may already know but be really careful and raise it with very little additions of whatever you're using, overshooting is VERY easy..!!
> Add a bit, stir well and leave alone for an hour or so, then stir well and recheck the pH again.
> I found this the hard way..LOL
> 
> ...



I use potassium bicarbonate as well. Whenever I'm adjusting wines, be it Brix, TA, pH, I always go in little bitty stages, definitely great advice!


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