# Racking From Large Fermenter



## Dom Lausic (Sep 19, 2019)

Hope everyone is excited for the new harvest! And that your winemaking plans well underway!

I wanted to ask how everyone drains their wine from their large fermenters (5 gal buckets don't count...). I have a 200L drum i ferment it, and have used a racking cane to siphon in the past. But typically i can only get so much out before it gets stuck. I then scoop the rest into the wine press. But last year i added some enzymes into my wine, and i had a ton of fine pulp and sediment that fell to the bottom, so the siphon didn't work. I was considering adding a ball valve to the fermenter but wasn't sure how to keep that from clogging. 

Would love to know/see how you guys are doing it! Here's to "a better way!"

Cheers


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## Rocky (Sep 20, 2019)

When I lived in Rochester, NY I purchased two 50-some gallon containers that were used to import lime juice. I added a spigot to each one about 3-4 inches above the bottom. I also had to cut the top off the drums with a saber saw and I used the tops as a cover during fermentation. 

I was making wine from grapes at the time so I would set my crusher on top of the drums and process the grapes directly into the drum. I had the drums set on a stand that was only about 2 feet high but it was high enough to set a large stockpot under the spigots and drain the wine into the pots. From there I poured the wine into 20 and 30 gallon barrels, using a large funnel, to complete fermentation and clear. 

My procedure was to crush the grapes into the fermenters and ferment the wine from 10 to 14 days. After that time with fermentation slowing, I first scooped out the skins and let them drain into a vessel before pressing them. I added the free run juice from the skins to the wine from the spigot and kept the wine pressed out of the skins separate. The wine would stay in the barrels from Mid October to early December at which time I would insert the bung. The wine was drinkable around Easter but I usually bottled most of it for additional aging.

It was slightly labor intensive, but not a big deal when making only 70-80 gallons. The spigots were stainless steel and easily removed for cleaning after the season.


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## Johnd (Sep 20, 2019)

Dom Lausic said:


> Hope everyone is excited for the new harvest! And that your winemaking plans well underway!
> 
> I wanted to ask how everyone drains their wine from their large fermenters (5 gal buckets don't count...). I have a 200L drum i ferment it, and have used a racking cane to siphon in the past. But typically i can only get so much out before it gets stuck. I then scoop the rest into the wine press. But last year i added some enzymes into my wine, and i had a ton of fine pulp and sediment that fell to the bottom, so the siphon didn't work. I was considering adding a ball valve to the fermenter but wasn't sure how to keep that from clogging.
> 
> ...


Many of us use the “Gajillion Hole Pipe”, I made this one from a piece of 4” water pipe. It has a cap on the bottom and a gajillion holes drilled in it, you can see my auto siphon next to it. Push the tube down into the must, insert the siphon / racking cane, and remove the wine. I typically vacuum rack to avoid lifting the fermenters, which are 40 - 50 gallons. A bit labor intensive to make, but it works like a charm. As the wine level decreases, there are fewer holes for wine to flow into, so you may need to slow a bit and spin the tube in the must to keep the holes free. Once you’ve gotten the wine out, head to the press.


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 20, 2019)

The "Gajillion Hole Pipe"!!!! That's exactly what I need! So simple and brilliant, yet game changing!

Last year I drilled a gajillion holes into a soda pop bottle and used that to siphon. But as the holes got plugged and the pressure increased, the bottle caved it. 

This is amazing, thank you!!!


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 20, 2019)

By the way @Johnd I'm extremely impressed in how precise you drilled a gajillion holes...… You've even off-set them. Great job!


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 20, 2019)

Dom Lausic said:


> The "Gajillion Hole Pipe"!!!! That's exactly what I need! So simple and brilliant, yet game changing!
> 
> Last year I drilled a gajillion holes into a soda pop bottle and used that to siphon. But as the holes got plugged and the pressure increased, the bottle caved it.
> 
> This is amazing, thank you!!!



I'm also a 'GHP' user. Although mine is not nearly as pretty as John's. I made mine with 4 inch PVC. Some people take it a step further and wrap a paint strainer bag around the pipe.


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## Johnd (Sep 22, 2019)

Dom Lausic said:


> By the way @Johnd I'm extremely impressed in how precise you drilled a gajillion holes...… You've even off-set them. Great job!



LOL! I wrapped a piece of perforated vinyl soffit around the pipe, zip tied it in place, and used it as my hole drilling guide, worked out quite well. 

Incidentally, my first GHP was a piece of perforated vinyl soffit rolled into a tube and riveted together at the seam, with an end cap siliconed on the bottom. Worked well, just a little too flimsy.


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## FunkedOut (Sep 22, 2019)

Here’s a laborless version of the racking cane filter:
https://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#autosiphon


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## Johnd (Sep 23, 2019)

Those products always looked to me like the screen would clog very quickly, just like a stainless mesh strainer during pressing.......have you tried them?


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## cmason1957 (Sep 23, 2019)

You might also consider this product, sold by @vacuumpumpman -https://www.allinonewinepump.com/product/free-run-tube-with-mesh-bag-2/

I will be using it next Saturday, probably. I used it once on a kit and it worked as expected. I'll probably use it to remove the majority of the free run straight to carboy, then scoop the rest into my press bucket.


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## FunkedOut (Sep 23, 2019)

Johnd said:


> Those products always looked to me like the screen would clog very quickly, just like a stainless mesh strainer during pressing.......have you tried them?


Never for wine. It works well for a dry-hopped beer, although it does clog as your intuition tells you. As the level gets lower, it clogs quicker and quicker. You have to shake or spin it a bit to get it flowing again.

I put a similar screen (much larger mesh and shorter length) on my racking cane for the wine. (http://www.morebeer.com/products/racking-cane-filter.html)
The good news is, as it gets clogged, it strains finer and finer.
The bad news is, I had to remove and clean it about 3 times for a 6 gallon carboy.


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 23, 2019)

Thank you all for the great suggestions! I've got to rack and press these beauties in about 10 days!


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## Chuck E (Sep 25, 2019)

I saw this at Amazon. The piece is made for holding wood chips in a gas grill for smoking meats. The perforated SS tube is closed on one end. I made an extension out of PVC pipe. I can set this into my RubberMade fermenters and not get any of the cap residue in the racking cane.


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 26, 2019)

Hey @Johnd, what material is your GHP 4" water pipe made from?? Is it PVC? I was looking at some of the ABS piping and it was pretty nicked up...... Was just concerned what type of risk that could pose from a bacterial standpoint. They keep telling us not to stack our pails to keep them from scratching, and this ABS wasn't too pretty..... So curious as to what type of piping that is.
Thx!


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 26, 2019)

@Boatboy24, i see you used PVC, which i believe is better than ABS. I believe ABS contains BPA, which I don't like the idea of..... Seems like PVC is the better choice???


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 26, 2019)

Dom Lausic said:


> @Boatboy24, i see you used PVC, which i believe is better than ABS. I believe ABS contains BPA, which I don't like the idea of..... Seems like PVC is the better choice???



I'm no chemist, but my thinking is the wine is in contact with the PVC for such a short time, that there isn't an opportunity for it to react with any of the plastics/chems. Don't know anything about ABS, but I'm all for avoiding BPA where possible.


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## Johnd (Sep 27, 2019)

Dom Lausic said:


> Hey @Johnd, what material is your GHP 4" water pipe made from?? Is it PVC? I was looking at some of the ABS piping and it was pretty nicked up...... Was just concerned what type of risk that could pose from a bacterial standpoint. They keep telling us not to stack our pails to keep them from scratching, and this ABS wasn't too pretty..... So curious as to what type of piping that is.
> Thx!



Yes, mine is water pipe, schedule 20, not schedule 40, so it’s a good bit lighter.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 29, 2019)

I made, and used, my GHP for the first couple of wines I made from grapes. Because my wine making is a one-Mann-show for the most part, I try to keep it all as simple as possible. 

Last year I used a plastic pitcher and just scooped the wine from the fermenter and poured it into my butt press (into the straining back that was set up inside). After the free run was gone, I pressed the rest. Repeat until all the wine is out of the fermenter and ready to go into carboys.


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 30, 2019)

jgmann67 said:


> I made, and used, my GHP for the first couple of wines I made from grapes. Because my wine making is a one-Mann-show for the most part, I try to keep it all as simple as possible.
> 
> Last year I used a plastic pitcher and just scooped the wine from the fermenter and poured it into my butt press (into the straining back that was set up inside). After the free run was gone, I pressed the rest. Repeat until all the wine is out of the fermenter and ready to go into carboys.



I've done the same in the past. Racked what i could, then scooped the rest. 

One-man show here as well! But enough wine for an army..... go figure....


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 30, 2019)

But I did build a GHP this weekend, and it worked like a charm!! Only scooping I had to do was for the remaining skins going into press.

Thanks to everyone for all their advise!! Greatly appreciated.


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## Johnd (Sep 30, 2019)

Dom Lausic said:


> But I did build a GHP this weekend, and it worked like a charm!! Only scooping I had to do was for the remaining skins going into press.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for all their advise!! Greatly appreciated.



That's a good looking GHP! Glad it worked out well, it's a real time saver!


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## crushday (May 22, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Many of us use the “Gajillion Hole Pipe”, I made this one from a piece of 4” water pipe. It has a cap on the bottom and a gajillion holes drilled in it, you can see my auto siphon next to it. Push the tube down into the must, insert the siphon / racking cane, and remove the wine. I typically vacuum rack to avoid lifting the fermenters, which are 40 - 50 gallons. A bit labor intensive to make, but it works like a charm. As the wine level decreases, there are fewer holes for wine to flow into, so you may need to slow a bit and spin the tube in the must to keep the holes free. Once you’ve gotten the wine out, head to the press.
> View attachment 56419



Can you recommend the size of the holes? I have the materials and will drill tomorrow. Thanks, @Johnd


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## Dom Lausic (May 22, 2020)

crushday said:


> Can you recommend the size of the holes? I have the materials and will drill tomorrow. Thanks, @Johnd


Not sure what size John used, but I believe I used a 1/8" bit


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## Johnd (May 23, 2020)

crushday said:


> Can you recommend the size of the holes? I have the materials and will drill tomorrow. Thanks, @Johnd


Certainly. My GHP is drilled at 7/64”, wine comes out pretty clean, flows well, no complaints. Just FYI, I used a piece of perforated vinyl soffit as my hole drilling guide, worked great for uniformity, but also to keep the bit from slipping around at the start of every hole. I highly recommend it.

One thing I wish I hadn’t done is attaching the plug to the pipe, it makes it much harder to clean.


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## crushday (May 23, 2020)

I drilled the holes last night using a 1/8th” into a 24” long 4” PVC pipe. I’ll get it cleaned up today and post a picture.

For the hole guide, I used graph paper taped to the PVC. I have 60 minutes into the project so far and carpal tunnel in my right wrist...lol.


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## crushday (May 23, 2020)

Got it done. I won’t glue the cap, heeding the suggestion of @Johnd


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## sour_grapes (May 23, 2020)

crushday said:


> For the hole guide, I used graph paper taped to the PVC. I have 60 minutes into the project so far and carpal tunnel in my right wrist...lol.



I was impressed you could find graph paper at all. Now I am doubly impressed that you could find (I assume?) hexagonal graph paper on short notice!

Looks great, BTW.


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## crushday (May 23, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> I was impressed you could find graph paper at all. Now I am doubly impressed that you could find (I assume?) hexagonal graph paper on short notice!
> 
> Looks great, BTW.


Actually, I googled it and printed. It was squares and I followed John’s lead on the hole pattern. I have to admit my cordless drill got pretty heavy after a bit boring all those holes. The devise is aptly named.

My next opportunity to use this will be mid to late September. I’m confident it will work great!


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## sour_grapes (May 23, 2020)

crushday said:


> AI have to admit my cordless drill got pretty heavy after a bit boring all those hole. The device is aptly named.



Cordless drill? Yeah, that is a good name for it!  

But seriously, it looks nice Good going. You need to nurse those sore muscles with a general anesthetic, preferably one that may be taken orally.


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## Ajmassa (May 23, 2020)

crushday said:


> Got it done. I won’t glue the cap, heeding the suggestion of @Johnd
> 
> View attachment 61534


 Looks perfect! 

Finding material for a proper base was a hassle. Looks like you found a solid black cap I see. I coulda used that!
I ended up adding a thick coupling that’s female threaded on one side and fit on snug w/ no need for adhesive. Drilled larger holes on it for wine to access some 1/8” holes the coupling covered. And a threaded flat piece to close off the bottom which can unscrew for cleaning. I do wrap it in a mesh bag also and never even have to adjust the pipe once while using. 


Your gonna be very satisfied you made this!


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## Johnd (May 23, 2020)

crushday said:


> I drilled the holes last night using a 1/8th” into a 24” long 4” PVC pipe. I’ll get it cleaned up today and post a picture.
> 
> For the hole guide, I used graph paper taped to the PVC. I have 60 minutes into the project so far and carpal tunnel in my right wrist...lol.



Too late now, but I drilled my holes with my Dremel, using the flexible cable / cord, super fast and easy on the hands.


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## crushday (May 23, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Too late now, but I drilled my holes with my Dreme, using the flexible cable / cord, super fast and easy on the hands.



That’s funny. Mrs. B asked me, why aren’t you using your Dremel?


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## crushday (May 23, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> I do wrap it in a mesh bag...



Your GHP looks great. I’m going to try a mesh bag and see what happens. I did drill 1/8” holes so I might not need the bag. I’ll experiment some. For sure, it’s going to be better than my present system which is a 100 micron hops filter. It clogs something fierce...


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## Ajmassa (May 23, 2020)

crushday said:


> Your GHP looks great. I’m going to try a mesh bag and see what happens. I did drill 1/8” holes so I might not need the bag. I’ll experiment some. For sure, it’s going to be better than my present system which is a 100 micron hops filter. It clogs something fierce...


Awkwardly struggling to separate skins almost seems like a winemaking rite of passage. Here’s the thread that culminated in my own ‘GHP‘ awakening! Tons of people chimed in with great skins separation tips offered throughout. Plus a whole lot of discussion about safe plastics & metal for winemaking. 
Separating skins for transfer


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## Johnd (May 23, 2020)

crushday said:


> Your GHP looks great. I’m going to try a mesh bag and see what happens. I did drill 1/8” holes so I might not need the bag. I’ll experiment some. For sure, it’s going to be better than my present system which is a 100 micron hops filter. It clogs something fierce...



You‘ll most likely find that the flow of wine is very good while the level is high. As the liquid level drops, there are fewer available holes to flow through and the flow into the tube decreases. When you‘re at that point, spinning the GHP in the must will help keep the holes clear.


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## Rocky (May 24, 2020)

I don't mean to beat a dead horse and I have mentioned this in the past, but have any of you tried adding a spigot to your fermenters? I am impressed with the ingenuity and the labor that goes into your tubes. I have all of my fermenters fitted with spigot, which are removed, cleaned and sanitized after every use and cleaned and sanitized before every use. I have them mounted about 2-3 inches above the bottom of the fermenter which is where the heavy sediment lies. I run the wine directly into carboy (usually attach a short length of tubing to the spigot) on the floor. I highly recommend this method. See pix below with a 20 and 32 gallon fermenter so fitted.


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## Johnd (May 24, 2020)

Rocky said:


> I don't mean to beat a dead horse and I have mentioned this in the past, but have any of you tried adding a spigot to your fermenters? I am impressed with the ingenuity and the labor that goes into your tubes. I have all of my fermenters fitted with spigot, which are removed, cleaned and sanitized after every use and cleaned and sanitized before every use. I have them mounted about 2-3 inches above the bottom of the fermenter which is where the heavy sediment lies. I run the wine directly into carboy (usually attach a short length of tubing to the spigot) on the floor. I highly recommend this method. See pix below with a 20 and 32 gallon fermenter so fitted.


Well, guess the horse just has a little life left in him, LOL. Yes, we’ve had those discussions and many of us have traveled that road, plenty folks use side valves. 
In my winemaking situation, if I had a large steel fermentation tank, that would make plenty of sense. Unless you ferment on tables, a logistic I cannot accommodate with 7+ fifty gallon fermenters every year, they’re floor bound. So by the time the first carboy‘s wine level rises up to the dropping level of the wine, the gravity flow stops and the AIO has to finish the job. Then there’s the valve assembly. I know, yours hasn’t leaked in 47 years, when I used the side valve assembly, they get bumped, kicked, and there were leaks unless you went out and got the high $ stuff, and they’d still clog when the cap got down to the valve with plenty wine left. Then I began searching for the right filter to put on the valves, the high $ stainless steel ones rock, if you only need 1. Then you can’t stack your fermenters for storage without removing all of the valves, that’s yet another step to start and stop every season.

The beauty of our hobby is the freedom we all get to choose, after trying lotsa stuff, I chose to add a $5 piece of pipe and a few hours labor to my toolbox, and it‘s been a welcome addition.


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## Boatboy24 (May 24, 2020)

crushday said:


> That’s funny. Mrs. B asked me, why aren’t you using your Dremel?



Ya know, this would have been a perfect opportunity to tell her you needed a drill press.


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## Rocky (May 24, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Well, guess the horse just has a little life left in him, LOL. Yes, we’ve had those discussions and many of us have traveled that road, plenty folks use side valves.
> In my winemaking situation, if I had a large steel fermentation tank, that would make plenty of sense. Unless you ferment on tables, a logistic I cannot accommodate with 7+ fifty gallon fermenters every year, they’re floor bound. So by the time the first carboy‘s wine level rises up to the dropping level of the wine, the gravity flow stops and the AIO has to finish the job. Then there’s the valve assembly. I know, yours hasn’t leaked in 47 years, when I used the side valve assembly, they get bumped, kicked, and there were leaks unless you went out and got the high $ stuff, and they’d still clog when the cap got down to the valve with plenty wine left. Then I began searching for the right filter to put on the valves, the high $ stainless steel ones rock, if you only need 1. Then you can’t stack your fermenters for storage without removing all of the valves, that’s yet another step to start and stop every season.
> 
> The beauty of our hobby is the freedom we all get to choose, after trying lotsa stuff, I chose to add a $5 piece of pipe and a few hours labor to my toolbox, and it‘s been a welcome addition.



I should have looked back through this thread because I see that I had replied earlier. I was addressing the general case of wine making that is represented on this forum, where a large majority of individuals makes wine in 7 tp 32 gallon fermenters, almost exclusively on a raised surface such as a table or bench. The plastic spigots I use cost between $2 and $3 and I have not had a "leak" problem because I install and test with water before filling with wine.


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## Johnd (May 24, 2020)

Rocky said:


> I should have looked back through this thread because I see that I had replied earlier. I was addressing the general case of wine making that is represented on this forum, where a large majority of individuals makes wine in 7 tp 32 gallon fermenters, almost exclusively on a raised surface such as a table or bench. The plastic spigots I use cost between $2 and $3 and I have not had a "leak" problem because I install and test with water before filling with wine.



It‘s all good, we all have different situations / area constraints that we have to deal with. I’d love to be able to ferment on a tabletop and simply drain the wine out with a $3 spigot, just don’t know how I’d get them onto a table if I had one, guess a must pump would be in order. Currently, I crush/destem straight into my fermenters and roll them inside where I have A/C (hot where I live) to ferment, pump the wine out into carboys, and roll the fermenters back outside for pressing. It works well. 
There are lots of great ideas and techniques that have been utilized and shared, none are wrong, and one solution doesn’t generally fit everybody’s situation. For me, it’s just about finding the ones that fit my dysfunction........


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## Dom Lausic (May 25, 2020)

crushday said:


> Got it done. I won’t glue the cap, heeding the suggestion of @Johnd
> 
> View attachment 61534


Beauty!


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