# Dogfish Head 60 min IPA clone try #1



## ceeaton

Dogfish Head 60 minute IPA clone Try #1

9 lbs Avangard Pale Malt
8 oz 80L Crystal Malt
1 lb MF Amber Dry Extract (I know, cheating a bit)
8 oz Sugar
24 g Warrior Hops 15.8% AA, added in 2 g increments every 5 min from 60 min to 5 min left in boil
24 g Simcoe Hops 12.9% AA, added in 2 g increments every 5 min from 60 min to 5 min left in boil
12 g Palisade Hops 8.5% AA, added in 2 g increments every 5 min from 30 min to 5 min left in boil
WLP007 - Dry English Ale Yeast

? oz/g Amarillo Hops 7% AA Dry hop
? oz/g Glacier Hops 4.9% AA Dry hop
? oz/g Palisade Hops 8.5% AA Dry hop

Mash grains at 152*F (2 hrs in igloo cylindrical cooler)
Mash out to 170*F
Sparge to 7.25 gallons
75 minute boil (hops after hot break forms, usually 15 minutes)

Expected SG of 1.065 for 5.25 gallons
Expected IBUs of 58 - may raise that and steep some Palisade Hops for 20 minutes when chilling the wort
Estimated 6.9% ABV

Plan on fermenting at 65*F ambient temperature
May have to bottle (arg!) this one since it will need a bit of aging

Edit: Sparged 8 gallons of wort, need to up the boil to 90 minutes, oh well, I just got a 30 pack of beer so should only cost a few more beers.

Edit 2: Did finish at SG 1.065, so all is good. Pitched yeast before dinner, temp of wort was 68*F.


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## ceeaton

Some brew day images. I actually had a blast adding hops every 5 minutes. Kept me busy and I didn't get super duper drunk while making this batch. Usually add a bunch of hops at 60, 30 and 10 minutes and get a nice nose full of hops, but this adding a little at a time kept up a nice aroma, just not real strong. Can't wait to try this one in a few months to see what the differences are with continuous hop additions.


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## Mismost

did a Pilners today...can and a kilo style...in the ferm chamber and cleaned up in under an hour.

I did have to boil a gallon of water, use a can opener, and a pair of scissors. Only addition was an oz of bitter orange peel, after which I took a long nap.

just a simple fizzy yellow lawnmower beer. I know it is not "real beer brewing" but we like the beer and it stupid simple to make! 

I'm not an IPA guy...like hops, but I don't like drinking pine trees. Some IPA's are just way over done in my opinion. This Pilsner has 17.5 IBU....may actually have to use your imagination to taste the hops!!


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## ceeaton

Mismost said:


> I know it is not "real beer brewing" but *we like the beer* and it stupid simple to make!



Okay, it's simple, you like it...what's not to like? I don't get caught up in arguments that one method is better than another. The method that works to give you beer you like is the correct method. The mashing and sparging and boiling and throwing a few grams of hops in every five minutes is just fun for me. I love to cook and beer making (and wine making) are just extensions to that. Also a good time to drink a few while I'm whipping up a batch for 5 to 6 hours. So I raise my piney glass of IPA up to you and your simple beer...if you like it I'd keep doing it, because your making it for your happiness, not someone else's (unless you have a wife hanging in the shadows, make her happy first, then proceed with your happiness).


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## Mismost

Craig...I really wanna do it right someday. My problem is time and ROOM. too many hobbies and not enough room to store all the gear. That and I don't drink much. Fact is, I should hunt and fish more....I eat every day!

I think YOU should get a barbque pit, smoker...you could brew beer, smoke briskets, chickens, and pork while you brew beer....heat water/start fire...mash in/rub meat...add hops/add wood...and drink beer the whole time!


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## ceeaton

Mismost said:


> I think YOU should get a barbque pit, smoker...you could brew beer, smoke briskets, chickens, and pork while you brew beer....heat water/start fire...mash in/rub meat...add hops/add wood...and drink beer the whole time!



Behind and also to the right of the middle image are a Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker (Bullet) and a New Braunfels 1280 equivalent smoker. Don't get to use them all the time, but I try to bring the Weber out to play every few weeks if I can. The larger New Braunfels is usually reserved for larger parties and doing multiple racks of ribs or multiple turkeys, which doesn't happen too often (but wish it would).


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## ceeaton

Been blurping right along since Sunday late afternoon. The Dry English Ale yeast (WLP007) takes some time to get rolling with the first generation, especially without a large starter. Really nice hop aroma coming through the airlock, looking forward to sampling this one down the road.


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## Boatboy24

I like the color you have on that so far.


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## ceeaton

Had some time before the games start, so took the opportunity and racked it. Still slowly fermenting.


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## ibglowin

Craig,

Question for you. How much did you end up spending for the ingredients to make this? I am guessing you end up with 5G out of this? I was looking at beer ingredient kits online once upon a time and it seemed like the cost to make 5G on most of those "clone kits" was the about same to purchase the actual "real" beer in the store. Am I mistaken? What am I missing here?


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## ibglowin




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## ceeaton

ibglowin said:


> Craig,
> 
> Question for you. How much did you end up spending for the ingredients to make this? I am guessing you end up with 5G out of this? I was looking at beer ingredient kits online once upon a time and it seemed like the cost to make 5G on most of those "clone kits" was the about same to purchase the actual "real" beer in the store. Am I mistaken? What am I missing here?



Yea, this batch got up there in price. 5 gallons, so roughly two+ cases. Cost from memory as follows:

Pale Malt - $14.36
Dry malt extract - $4.50
Hops - $5.97
Yeast - $6.99
Total - $31.82

Not including propane. I didn't include bottles either since I'll either keg it or clean out used bottles. So I really don't know what a case of this beer costs commercially, so I'd guess it's about 1/2 the cost, but with the time investment it's cheaper to go buy two cases, but that would be no fun.


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## ibglowin

Thats better than some of the clone recipes I was looking at on the MoreBeer website. A Pliney the Elder extract kit was ~$60 with yeast so that comes out to about $7 a six pack without bottles etc. I joined our local beer coop and can purchase a growler for $7 to $10 depending on the beer and the beer is really, really good. Would love to learn the art of making beer one of these days but I do not need another fermentation hobby! LOL


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## ceeaton

The yeast I used is already cropped and pitched into another batch. I'll do that for about 5 batches if is stays clean enough, and that brings the cost down quite a bit. If I decide to keep brewing at this rate I'll probably order a 55 lb bag of the malt, which will bring costs down more. If I could ever get around to getting a lauter tun for a 10 gallon batch I'd be doing much better. Figure too that most of my equipment is good for 50 or so batches if I take care of it.

If you can do all grain, it does keep the cost down, though the "time" costs are initially higher. 

I'm using this as a cheaper alternative to wine kits, I have more than enough wine aging and want to start approaching two years before bottling like you have been doing. I'll make a batch or two in the Spring, then the same in the Fall. That should keep long term stocks of wine looking good.


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## Redbird1

ibglowin said:


> Thats better than some of the clone recipes I was looking at on the MoreBeer website. A Pliney the Elder extract kit was ~$60 with yeast so that comes out to about $7 a six pack without bottles etc. I joined our local beer coop and can purchase a growler for $7 to $10 depending on the beer and the beer is really, really good. Would love to learn the art of making beer one of these days but I do not need another fermentation hobby! LOL


The Pliny recipe that Russian River provides has 12.5 oz of hops, which would be about $25 at my local shop. Converting 14+ lbs of grain gives about 10 lbs. of LME, which runs about $36. Unless you're buying in bulk, $60 is a pretty fair price since it uses so many hops and has such a big grain bill. 

I've never purchased Pliny before, but I imagine it's much more than $7/6 pack. From the co-op, I'd also expect that a Pliny clone to be closer to the higher end of the price range given the ingredients. Even at $9/growler, you're at $1.69/bottle, which is more than the price from the kit. 

Plus, some people just love the hands-on part.


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## ibglowin

The Dogfish clone recipe from MoreBeer is $51 with yeast. A little cheaper. That comes out to about $6 a six pack just for ingredients. I am just trying to see what it cost to make a really good home brew beer. I realize as you scale up and buy/brew in larger quantities your cost per bottle will come down.


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## Redbird1

Economies of scale can really help with brewing. 55 lb. bags of grain and 1 lb. bags of hops really drive the cost down. Re-using liquid yeast is great too. 

With all-grain (multi-vessel or brew-in-a-bag), you can get a batch of a simple beer (regular-sized grain bill plus 1 to 2 oz. of hops) for around $20, even less if you re-use yeast. Big beers (IIPAs, Barleywines, RIS) will set you back more. It's not a one-size-fits-all cost. 

I don't know what ingredients it includes, but that Dogfish clone seems like a good deal (for extract).


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## Boatboy24

1/2 keg of 60 minute IPA is $210 at TW. $8 for a six pack, which is cheap for DFH.


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## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> 1/2 keg of 60 minute IPA is $210 at TW. $8 for a six pack, which is cheap for DFH.



Ouch, ouch, ouch!

Darn 10 character minimum.


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## Mismost

why is wine yeast so much cheaper than beer yeast? And why wouldn't wine yeast for beer? Has any one ever tried it?


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## ceeaton

Mismost said:


> why is wine yeast so much cheaper than beer yeast? And why wouldn't wine yeast for beer? Has any one ever tried it?



Beer yeast is cheap if you use the dried stuff. The liquid White Labs wine yeast is just as expensive as the liquid beer yeast, if I remember correctly (never have used the liquid wine yeast).

I think I've heard wine yeast brings Aunt Ester to the beer party. 

A quickie search on the net (and everything is 100% true on the net):


_ Wine yeasts will not consume maltotriose, so steps must be taken to minimize or break down that particular sugar. You could do that enzymatically, by increasing the ratio of simple to more complex sugars, by splitting your batch and then blending once all fermentation is finished, or by doing a multi-strain pitch. Or you could just live with a sweeter end result.

Many Wine yeast strains have a Kill Factor. They produce a protein that kills other yeast and bacteria that are in the same must/wort with them. Be sure to check on that if you are doing a multi strain pitch, or planning to bottle condition with a beer yeast.

Wine yeasts will produce different esters, and you will want to keep that in mind. Pick one that will produce flavors that will work well with the beer that you are brewing._

Hope that helps.


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## Redbird1

ibglowin said:


> The Dogfish clone recipe from MoreBeer is $51 with yeast. A little cheaper. That comes out to about $6 a six pack just for ingredients. I am just trying to see what it cost to make a really good home brew beer. I realize as you scale up and buy/brew in larger quantities your cost per bottle will come down.


If you're still in the market, you can use promo code "SAVEME5" to take $5 off, plus they have free shipping over $59.


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## Redbird1

ibglowin said:


> The Dogfish clone recipe from MoreBeer is $51 with yeast. A little cheaper. That comes out to about $6 a six pack just for ingredients. I am just trying to see what it cost to make a really good home brew beer. I realize as you scale up and buy/brew in larger quantities your cost per bottle will come down.


If you're still in the market, you can use promo code "SAVEME5" to take $5 off, plus they have free shipping over $59. 

Edit: I'm going to have to order a Tart of Darkness kit. I've always wanted to try it, and $30 isn't that much more than I'd pay for a bottle from the liquor store.


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## ceeaton

I think might bottle this one for some extended aging, so I dry hopped it in the carboy. 14g Glacier, 14g Amarillo, 7g Simcoe. Smells like I added a pine forest to my beer!


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## ceeaton

Finally got around to bottling this beer today (I dislike bottling, love kegging), nice clarity, could smell it all over the house, good hops. Might have a keeper here. Will probably be one of the first beers I try after the alcohol fast. Should be in the bottle at least three weeks before I disturb one. Aimed low on the priming sugar as I don't like overly carbonated beers (my English roots showing through). This one should age pretty gracefully if I leave it alone since it had a bit of umph to it.


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## Boatboy24

A shame I will not be at Harford this spring, as I'd love to steal one of those from you.


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## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> A shame I will not be at Harford this spring, as I'd love to steal one of those from you.



Heck you were going to get a 6 pack or two. Guess if I see @AZMDTed down there he'll get some instead.

I definitely plan on re-making this one again once I taste test it against the real McCoy, so you may be inline for a "new and improved" version this Fall. Never know, I might just be able to UPS you some if I deem this batch worthy, you'll just have to p.m. me your address when that time comes. I would imagine shipping would cost less than driving to Chantilly and back, plus I know UPS ground gets there in a day (we ship proofs etc to Government agencies all the time and use UPS Ground to get it there by the next afternoon (though it usually gets delivered by Noon, just not guaranteed)).


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## Boatboy24

ceeaton said:


> Heck you were going to get a 6 pack or two.




Dang it!!!


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## AZMDTed

ceeaton said:


> Heck you were going to get a 6 pack or two. Guess if I see @AZMDTed down there he'll get some instead.



Craig, thanks. You're welcome any time you're able to come on down. Just let me know. I'm not a beer drinker but I thank you for the mention anyway. Btw, I've got two extended maceration cabs in carboys now (Eclipse Lodi, and a CC showcase), plus a third one three and a half weeks into EM.


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## ceeaton

Finally got to taste this project side-by-side with the real McCoy. I'm amazed how close I got on this first try. My up front bitterness is higher than the "control" version, but the hop aftertaste is less intense. When I make it again I will start the hop additions at 50 minutes verses 60, that should slightly reduce the bitterness and add some more hop character to the finish. Leaf hops would also be a benefit when dry hopping. All in all, this is a very good beer. Will be nice to have a few cases around this summer as one or two any evening would be enough to satisfy any beer urge I'd have (plus my version ended up being 6.5% ABV).


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## ceeaton

Had three of these this evening and I am feeling the 6.5% ABV (I know, I'm a lightweight all of a sudden). Taking a case of this up North this weekend. I expect to bring quite a bit back unless my two brothers dive in full bore. I figure three of four beers and a glass of wine with dinner and I'll be rockin' and singin' on the front porch (we have a screened in porch that overlooks the creek and bike trail with a ledge to perch your favorite drink (or citronella candles or both)). Many a fine nap has been completed during my short lifetime on that porch.


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## ceeaton

Had my older brother compare the clone to the real thing. He liked my version better as it had a bit more residual sugar and made the bitterness less apparent. My next tweeks will be to use loose leaf hops for the dry hops to hopefully push up the hop character in the finish. Plus I'd drop the 80L Crystal malt back to 4 oz, or substitute 40L Crystal malt as the color has more of a copper hue than the commercial version. Will definitely make this one again (possibly next weekend) depending on when the grapes and buckets come in from Harford (I'm not expecting them for a few more weeks).


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## ceeaton

Buckets coming at the end of this week. Wish I had made another batch, only have 8 of these left, it's f-ing good IMHO. Seems to take to bottling pretty well as most higher hopped ales do.


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## jswordy

ceeaton said:


> Buckets coming at the end of this week. Wish I had made another batch, only have 8 of these left, it's f-ing good IMHO. Seems to take to bottling pretty well as most higher hopped ales do.



I wish I could even get buckets...


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## ceeaton

jswordy said:


> I wish I could even get buckets...



It is a nice, cheap option. Only problem is you have to tailor your schedule to their arrival. Now they aren't coming until next weekend and I have no grain and don't feel like a 75 minute round trip to go pick some up (plus it is pretty rainy here today, I'm a fair weather brewer).


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## jswordy

ceeaton said:


> It is a nice, cheap option. Only problem is you have to tailor your schedule to their arrival. Now they aren't coming until next weekend and I have no grain and don't feel like a 75 minute round trip to go pick some up (plus it is pretty rainy here today, I'm a fair weather brewer).



As far as I have been able to determine, the closest I could get buckets might be Atlanta or Nashville, though I've not found any outlets there. Both are 200-250 mile round trips. I am trying to work with a local homebrew store to see if they could get a list going for shipments. They'll profit and I'll get to buy juice buckets. But this area is really all about brewing beer. If folks do make wine, its from local grapes from local vineyards.


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