# My Milk Wine project



## seth8530

Well, yesterday i got sorta bored and decided i would try out something ive heard about before, Milk wine.

Procedure

2 gallons of milk and 2 gallons of water mixed together.

enough sugar to bring the PA up to 17% ( this is part of the 2 gallons of added water.

A hand full of crushed lactic acid enzyme pills to turn the milk stuff into glucose that the yeast can use.

priemier curvee (or whatever it is called) From redstar.

THOUGHTS

I would of used nutrient but i dont have any and i dont feel like killing some of my yeast packets by turning them into nutrients..

Was a slow started, little activity until i put the primary in a large bucket of warm water to get things going. Smells really sweet.


----------



## wyntheef

It never ceases to amaze me what wines can be made out of!

Good luck and please update with results when you can.

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## seth8530

I will do my best to keep yall updated. Milk wine is more of an OLD thing that some people are rediscovering. It was really popular with the mongols because they had plenty of milk producing animals that traveleld around with them but no portable fruit for wine making.


----------



## wyntheef

seth8530 said:


> It was really popular with the mongols because they had plenty of milk producing animals that traveleld around with them but no portable fruit for wine making.



Just picturing an army of warrior nomads traveling the (Europe?) continent. 
"Ya, ve may not haf ze toilets or soap or bowls to eat our gruel out of, but by Zeus, ve vil haf ze alcahol! LOL


----------



## Green Mountains

A potential food pairing could be Oreo's?


----------



## seth8530

wyntheef said:


> Just picturing an army of warrior nomads traveling the (Europe?) continent.
> "Ya, ve may not haf ze toilets or soap or bowls to eat our gruel out of, but by Zeus, ve vil haf ze alcahol! LOL



ROFL thats great, its kinda cool in a way because, by making wine we are in a way going back in time and practicing an art that has deep roots in history and culture


----------



## xanxer82

This is pretty common in africa. I have a buddy from Kenya who had to drink fermented milk as part of a manhood ritual.


----------



## seth8530

Wow, thaats pretty cool. its forming a pretty big head. its atleast an inch thick right now. im keeping the wash pretty warm by bathing my primary in pretty warm water. The milk is starting to lose some of its whiteness and is beginning to turn closer to clear looking.


----------



## xanxer82

Cool! You're gonna have to get some pictures of this process up. 
People will want to see this.


----------



## seth8530

Ill take a picture right now, ill upload it in just a sec. ill also take a gravity reading while im at it too


----------



## seth8530

Here you can see how thick the cap is, it has a cottage cheese like consistncy and has a sweet milkshake like taste




Here is me taking a PA reading. it started out last night at 17% right now it is at 16% notice how it is no longer white like milk but has taken on a slightly clearer greenish hue. It dont taste spoilt. In fact i would say its rather like a warm milkshake.




So would yall recomend taking the sweet cheese stuff off the top? or just let it be lol>


----------



## xanxer82

Stir it back in. It's got yeasty beasties in it.


----------



## seth8530

Thats what i did, but whenever i do it just forms right back up lol. it doesnt want to go away -_-. Do you think that it will keep fermenting strong overnight in the basement? its gona get around 60 in there? or do you think the heat from the fermentation will keep it going strong?


----------



## wyntheef

seth8530 said:


> Thats what i did, but whenever i do it just forms right back up lol. it doesnt want to go away -_-. Do you think that it will keep fermenting strong overnight in the basement? its gona get around 60 in there? or do you think the heat from the fermentation will keep it going strong?



got a brewbelt? if not, try wrappping a blanket or something to keep it from losing heat overnight.


----------



## xanxer82

Yeah it's gonna want to foam up. There are a lot of protein chains in milk.
If you can move it to the kitchen or somewhere with a warm stable temperature it could be a bit safer. 68-75 degrees F. is ideal.


----------



## seth8530

I do not have a brew belt, and dont really have any blankets to put over it. do you think that a space heater next to it will do the trick?


----------



## arcticsid

I was kind of wondering about temp too! Until it actually produces alcohol, spoilage is definitely some thing to consider. Where did you get the recipe, I seen a few different ones I will send you a link for to help give you some more info. YES!!! definitely stir that cap back in, probably several times a day. Don't allow it to become dry for very long.

Troy


----------



## xanxer82

As long as you can control the temp on the heater to stay within range that should work. Just dont have it right on it. You don't want to cook it


----------



## seth8530

arcticsid said:


> I was kind of wondering about temp too! Until it actually produces alcohol, spoilage is definitely some thing to consider. Where did you get the recipe, I seen a few different ones I will send you a link for to help give you some more info. YES!!! definitely stir that cap back in, probably several times a day. Don't allow it to become dry for very long.
> 
> Troy



How much alcohol do i need before spoilage beco
mes a biggie? Based the recipie off from the wine press forum. but they got it from a book called something like " the alaskan bootleggers" something or another. But i pretty much did the same thing that they did. 1 part milk 1 part water and enough sugar for your alcoholic taste.

What happens if it gets dry?


And im hoping it will get warm enough with the space heater to keep it happy


----------



## arcticsid

The Alaskan Bootleggers Bible, Leon W. Kiana. Hillbilly sent me a copy for Xmas, I did see a recipe in there for it. Give me a second, I will find those others.


----------



## seth8530

arcticsid said:


> The Alaskan Bootleggers Bible, Leon W. Kiana. Hillbilly sent me a copy for Xmas, I did see a recipe in there for it. Give me a second, I will find those others.




Alright, i apreciate it very much ( :


----------



## arcticsid

http://brewery.org/brewery/cm3/recs/12_toc.html

I know there is some recipes in here for "KEFIR", which is milk wine. But this is a great site with alot of "unconventianal wine recipes. Look through the site. Let me see if I can find a link to the "bible", I have it, but let me see if it has an online refernece to this type of wine.

Okay, I found his link but it doesn't list that recipe. So, from his book, page 48, here is what is said.

*KOUMISS-KEFIR RECIPE
*

2 qt commercial lactose free milk

2 lbs, cane sugar, or honey

2 qt water

1 pk cahampage yest(or any yeast for high alcohol)

"The lactose free milk has been enzyme modified to break the milk sugar down into easily digestible/fermentable sugars. It is noticeablly sweeter than conventional milk.

Dissolve the sugar in boiling water and let cool to room temp. , then add to milk and pitch yeast.

It is important to let the water cool so you don't scald the milk which alters its chemistry. It's best to use a fermentation lock from the start.

Ferment at room temp about 70F. After about a week your milk wine will seperate into three distict layers, a curd or cottage cheese on top, the fluid or whey, and on the bottom, a fine yogurt like layer.

It is now time to rack the wine by starianing it through a collander lined with cheesecloth to seperate the solids from the whey.

Put the liquid into a secondary fermentation vessel with a fermentation lock and proceed with fermentation, rack and bottle as with any other wine.

This process will yield about 1 quart per gallon of cottage cheese(curds) when you strain it. It is wholsome and good for you, but will hammer you into the ground like a tent peg because of it's hig alcohol content.

If you don't want to go on a cheese bender, rinse it and strain it through cheesecloth to remove the kick"

Not much info there but that is the recipe from the Bible.

The above info was copied without permission from, The Alaskan Bootleggers Bible, Leon W. Kania, Happy Mountain Publications, Copyright 2000 and 2007.

He lists his email as: [email protected]

I would never list anyones emails but he asked if you have any questions or comments to email him. Here is the link for his site.


http://www.happymountain.net/table of contents.html

Good Luck, keep us posted.

Troy


----------



## seth8530

arcticsid said:


> http://brewery.org/brewery/cm3/recs/12_toc.html
> 
> I know there is some recipes in here for "KEFIR", which is milk wine. But this is a great site with alot of "unconventianal wine recipes. Look through the site. Let me see if I can find a link to the "bible", I have it, but let me see if it has an online refernece to this type of wine.
> 
> Okay, I found his link but it doesn't list that recipe. So, from his book, page 48, here is what is said.
> 
> *KOUMISS-KEFIR RECIPE
> *
> 
> 2 qt commercial lactose free milk
> 
> 2 lbs, cane sugar, or honey
> 
> 2 qt water
> 
> 1 pk cahampage yest(or any yeast for high alcohol)
> 
> "The lactose free milk has been enzyme modified to break the milk sugar down into easily digestible/fermentable sugars. It is noticeablly sweeter than conventional milk.
> 
> Dissolve the sugar in boiling water and let cool to room temp. , then add to milk and pitch yeast.
> 
> It is important to let the water cool so you don't scald the milk which alters its chemistry. It's best to use a fermentation lock from the start.
> 
> Ferment at room temp about 70F. After about a week your milk wine will seperate into three distict layers, a curd or cottage cheese on top, the fluid or whey, and on the bottom, a fine yogurt like layer.
> 
> It is now time to rack the wine by starianing it through a collander lined with cheesecloth to seperate the solids from the whey.
> 
> Put the liquid into a secondary fermentation vessel with a fermentation lock and proceed with fermentation, rack and bottle as with any other wine.
> 
> This process will yield about 1 quart per gallon of cottage cheese(curds) when you strain it. It is wholsome and good for you, but will hammer you into the ground like a tent peg because of it's hig alcohol content.
> 
> If you don't want to go on a cheese bender, rinse it and strain it through cheesecloth to remove the kick"
> 
> Not much info there but that is the recipe from the Bible.
> 
> The above info was copied without permission from, The Alaskan Bootleggers Bible, Leon W. Kania, Happy Mountain Publications, Copyright 2000 and 2007.
> 
> He lists his email as: [email protected]
> 
> I would never list anyones emails but he asked if you have any questions or comments to email him. Here is the link for his site.
> 
> 
> http://www.happymountain.net/table of contents.html
> 
> Good Luck, keep us posted.
> 
> Troy




Do you reckon i should go ahead and put it into a carboy and airlock it? or should i go ahead with my bucket? Its gona be kinda hard to get the curds outa of a carboy aint it?


----------



## arcticsid

I really don't know. As long as I have been in here I only recall one other post about this KEFIR, I just tried the search in here and couldn't locate it.

Try Googling milk wine or Kefir.

Most of us are probably just as confused as you.

But stand by, someone very well may have some other answers for you.

Congradulations on being so brave to have even tried this!!!!!LOL

Troy


----------



## seth8530

arcticsid said:


> I really don't know. As long as I have been in here I only recall one other post about this KEFIR, I just tried the search in here and couldn't locate it.
> 
> Try Googling milk wine or Kefir.
> 
> Most of us are probably just as confused as you.
> 
> But stand by, someone very well may have some other answers for you.
> 
> Congradulations on being so brave to have even tried this!!!!!LOL
> 
> Troy



Thanks lol, im gona go ahead and rack it off into 2 2and a half gallon carboys. might as well be on the safe side here/


----------



## arcticsid

Don't do it on my recommendation, because I already told you I don't have a clue.

We want to see it work for you.

It's fermenting right along though, huh?


----------



## seth8530

arcticsid said:


> Don't do it on my recommendation, because I already told you I don't have a clue.
> 
> We want to see it work for you.
> 
> It's fermenting right along though, huh?



Yup, happy as can bee lol. when i stirred up the cap you could hear the co2 being disturbed in it. im siphoning it into 2 sep "carboys" right now. and ill fit a fermentation lock on em as soon as i can. It has a very notable greenish hue to it lol. but nothing implies spoilage lol


----------



## seth8530

ok, the carboys have been made, my 4 gallon i started with is now about 3 and some change now. i reckon all that cheese stuff on the top had a lota milk stuff in it. 

Its going kinda slow now. but im hoping it will speed up once i get it warm\


----------



## seth8530

Ok. ive brought the milk wine into my closet now. Its much warmer up here and im relieved to see that they have both picked back up. Its not exactly speedy gonzolas but it is def ferminting and there is no sign of spoilage so im happy. Also a new layer of cheese is beginning to form on the top of the must


----------



## arcticsid

Again, your bravery on this is admirable.

Troy


----------



## seth8530

So am i the only one guilty of juryrigging every kind of large food grade container i can find into carboys?


----------



## seth8530

4/15/10 update... They seem to be ferminting right along, perhaps a little slow. A layer of cheese like curds is forming on the surface again... when shaken it gets pissed off and bubbles angrily. no signs of spoilage. smells strongly of alcohol but still taste sweet so far.


----------



## Torch404

Have you tried the cheese? I heard it's high octane!


----------



## Green Mountains

seth8530 said:


> So am i the only one guilty of juryrigging every kind of large food grade container i can find into carboys?



I was interested in those water containers you posted. Looks like Poland Spring?

I'd only be concerned that the amount of surface space at the top would/could cause more oxidation than a small necked regular carboy.

But Hey, if it works, plus it's got a handy handle.


----------



## seth8530

The one time i tried the cheese it wasnt high octane yet, i wouldnt suspect it is yet either.. but im gona find out once i determine its done cooking. and i will be sure to report. im afraid i might of screwed up tho cuz i had like an inch of cheese to start but when i put this in the secondary i lost my layer of cheeses. but im hopoing enough will form again....

How high is the oxidation risk you reckon? ill keep that in mind next time.

Wouldnt the co2 push the air out tho?


----------



## Midwest Vintner

seth8530 said:


> So am i the only one guilty of juryrigging every kind of large food grade container i can find into carboys?



fermentors yes, carboy's no. we just buy more carboys ::


----------



## seth8530

lol haha, something tells me by the time im done my basement will turn into a small scale winery lol


----------



## ohbeary

I'm only sorry I found this so late, after the curds rise for the first time skim them off and drain well, wrap in cheese cloth and press, you have a free feta type cheese, fabulous in salads, do not mix back into ferment, protien haze hazzard!!, usually the milk (sheep) is fermented the curds are saved and the liquid thrown out as useless!, we got better things to drink


----------



## seth8530

i wish i would of kept the curds now -_- they tasted awfully sweet tho. So does anyone have any idea how long this should take to ferment dry from 17 PA lol


----------



## seth8530

4/18/10 update early morning..

The pa has moved from 17 to 10.5 since last monday. im using redstar premier curvee (sp)? How does this rate on the fermentation scale? is this fast or slow or just about to be expected?


----------



## seth8530

Well, it still appears to be burping along quite happily. so far no rotten milk smell has developed so i believe that i am past having to worry about that now. A layer of what looks like yogurt has formed on the bottom. there is a thin layer of curds on the top but prob not enough to worry messing with


----------



## arcticsid

Seth, sounds like its coming along. Just remember, it will probably be you by yourself taking the firste taste test. Just want you to know we will be looking for the expression on your face before the rest of us joins in!!! LOL

be sure to keep us posted, this is an interesting "twist" to what we know as wine.


----------



## seth8530

I plan on "tasting a sample" of it as soon as it gets done cooking. so im guessing that will be sometime next weekend. I would take a video if i could lol (L. But ya, even if it dont taste good i will let it age.. now just thinking, it shouldnt take more than a few months to age since this is after all a true "white wine" righhhtt??


----------



## seth8530

*i tasted it.....*

Ok, so i decided to take a gravity reading to see how it was coming along. The potential alcohol was at 4% and im going to wait a couple days and see if that is changing any.

Ok so now for the fun part childeren. This thing has a flavor like no other. I have a hard time deciding just what it taste like. Right now ive decided to go with plain yougort with a taste sorta like a very mild cheese that was in the fridge uncoverd. BUt with a water like consistency. Ive tasted something in spanish cousine before that tasted very similer to this before i just cant put my nose on it. ( my sample did come from near the bottom with the yogurt layer so maybe this has an influence on the flavor ?)

Soon after the taste, is the unmistakeable taste of alcohol. It taste very strong but not unpleasent at all.

So boys and girls, after fermentation is complete should i stabalize this? i know that this is the usual practice but im afraid that stabalizing would hurt some natroul biological milk proccesses that could lead to improved flavor.

Question 2. Right now It is very nuetral tasting minus the strange cheese flavor. so im thinking that i should age this on something to give it more flavor. So has anyone here aged on cofee beans before or cinamon? how did that turn out and do yall think it would help my flavor woes out


----------



## ohbeary

Seth, love ya dude, your crazy milk wine intrigues me I think you are "as mad as a snake" you gotta get the prize for perseverance but 4% ain't gonna light anyones candle, anything under 10% won't keep so I think drinking it soon would possibly be a good idea, or do you strain off the liquid and keep the cheese?, I don't know!, best of luck with it anyhoo.


----------



## seth8530

ohbeary said:


> Seth, love ya dude, your crazy milk wine intrigues me I think you are "as mad as a snake" you gotta get the prize for perseverance but 4% ain't gonna light anyones candle, anything under 10% won't keep so I think drinking it soon would possibly be a good idea, or do you strain off the liquid and keep the cheese?, I don't know!, best of luck with it anyhoo.




Sorry, i wasnt clear. it started with a potential of 17. and it now has a potential of 4. Therfore the alcohol should be 13 percent right? so any ideas or suggestions lol. and yes mad is my middle name lol


----------



## WhineMaker

Honestly, I have a hard time reading about your milk wine.. 

It's intriguing though and I just had to read it today.. Problem was I read it right before lunch and I have to admit I lost my appetite!! LOL


----------



## ohbeary

seth8530 said:


> Sorry, i wasnt clear. it started with a potential of 17. and it now has a potential of 4. Therfore the alcohol should be 13 percent right? so any ideas or suggestions lol. and yes mad is my middle name lol



I see I think, the muddy waters clear, this is getting interesting, do you age it on Beech chips, they are sort of sweet or do you go with vanilla oak, I would be tempted with the yoghurty flavour to add/ serve(eventually) extremely cold with a dash of raspberry syrup, maybe a sweetened creme fraiche floater! sound crazy?, well that seems to be my middle name, at 17% it ought to be backsweetened to 1020/30 as a light dessert wine, you just have to keep me posted on the progress of this wine, I am fascinated with the fermentation of dairy produce, the Tibetans have their fermented yak milk, "oh yes sir, very fresh! only 2 years old!" a number of European cheeses are fermented, ie Romanian Cas and French Neufchatel, I seem to vaguely recall an alcoholic goat milk drink but just can't remeber where from.


----------



## seth8530

What is this vanila oak you speak of? Right now i wouldnt call the yougourty flavor pleasent at all lol imagine yougourt with a strange unrefined semi musty taste to it.. its rather rough to be honest. but Its the off taste which needs to be taken care of. The flavor is so so so hard to explain.

Im hoping with time that this flavor will be mellow out lol. But once that goes away its gona taste like strait up alcohol with an odd flavour less body to it. 

That is why i want to age it on somethign that will impart a LOT of flavor. 

I really wish that someone here with way more experience at wine making than me would try this.


----------



## arcticsid

Not a chance buddy! This is why labs have rats. LOL. Glad you're trying first!


----------



## seth8530

aww comon please man lol


----------



## Torch404

Defiantly stabilize! You don't want 'milk processes' after it's wine. Now can you use condensed milk to back sweeten? LOL


----------



## Leanne

Right. I've passed your recipe on to one of my neighbours. He's a very good winemaker. I just don't have the stomach for this one myself. We'll see how he does. Should be interesting.


----------



## arcticsid

Seth, if you start getting real freaky like fermenting chicken stock or something....you're outta here!!! LOL.

Just don't know if any of us could stand hearing about it, you got us watching you and the milk, but soup might be going to far.

However, in your defence. There is actually a lot of resources out there regarding fermented milk. So, for that, I guess you can stay.

(BRAHFF!!)


----------



## seth8530

Leanne said:


> Right. I've passed your recipe on to one of my neighbours. He's a very good winemaker. I just don't have the stomach for this one myself. We'll see how he does. Should be interesting.



Thanks, yall are great. If he actually does it could you give us updates on how his goes? O and also forbid him from throwing out the cheese like i did. lol



Torch- Alright. im def gona stabalize this once i rack it. The condensed milk would actually be a great idea if i wasnt afraid that it would spoil lol ( and i think you were being sarcastic lol) but it really dont sound like that bad of an idea.. Thank you.

hmmm fermented chicken stock..... Now there is an idea. I dont think it actually contains chicken just the eccence. I wonder if it would be like fermenting a vegitble medley. I bet it would clear really well too.


What i love about this new found art/hobby of mine is that it puts us in the same shoes our ancesters were in many years ago. Whether it be hundreds or even a thousand years. I really do believe that winemaking is an art. I mean litterly an art. That should be respected on the same level as any other art. The ammount of fine details that are needed to insure that the wine is just perfect, the way it looks in the light, the way the acid balances the alcohol. its just amazing. ( end of wine rant)


----------



## Leanne

Yeah, he always keeps good notes so I'll pass them along. He thinks it will be an interesting experiment and is looking forward to it.


----------



## djrockinsteve

and to think I've been throwing away my curdled milk all these years. Whoooo-da-thought. Leanne's right, I don't think I have the stomach for this one. Even thinking about making it makes me uneasy but go for it. Watch it'l be better than all of ours.


----------



## seth8530

i know -_-. so now im asking the question.... will this work on powderd milk? and im curious to see how his turns out in contrast to mine.


----------



## Torch404

I was joking about the condensed milk for sure!! I'm intrigued by it too you'll have to let us know how it tastes as it ages. 

The other white wine, milk wine.   I crack myself up some times


----------



## seth8530

haha, i tried it a few days ago and i couldnt drink it. just too funky. not like its spoilt. just strange for my pallate. But im hoping that it mellows out. What interist me is how alcoholic it taste yet the alcohol is not unpleasent at all lol


Just imagine the possible food pairing.... Oreo's, Penut butter and jelly sandwich... yumm


----------



## Leanne

Although it's very early here my neighbour noticed my lights on and dragged me round to look at this stuff. I want an award for bravery folks!
It is fermenting like crazy! It does smell like milkshake and looks like an angry beast.


----------



## Leanne

seth8530 said:


> haha, i tried it a few days ago and i couldnt drink it. just too funky. not like its spoilt. just strange for my pallate. But im hoping that it mellows out. What interist me is how alcoholic it taste yet the alcohol is not unpleasent at all lol
> 
> 
> Just imagine the possible food pairing.... Oreo's, Penut butter and jelly sandwich... yumm



I think the taste will change with age Seth. It has all the evidence of a wine made for aging.


----------



## seth8530

Leanne said:


> I think the taste will change with age Seth. It has all the evidence of a wine made for aging.


Awesum, thats how mine smelt when i first started. Do you know what his starting gravity was? Smells good tho dont it lol.

Just curious, what makes you think this wine has evidence of a wine ment for aging? as opposed to something like skeeter pee which dont?


----------



## seth8530

Ok, ive added potasium sorbate, and 1 camden tablet per gallon. Should that be enough to keep it stable? It finished at 15 percent alcohol. When i started it i had a potential of 17.


----------



## kolson5

Seth - you aren't the only one! I started some milk wine in the beggining of April from a recipe in the Alaskan Bootlegger's Bible. I used recipe #2...with lactaid. Right now it is in the secondary...and is just a shade lighter than mtn dew color. When i transfered mine to the secondary about two weeks ago, it tasted like a slightly sweet sake with just a hint of milk at the finish. (and yes, I had to remove about 1-2 inches of milk curd from the top). Can't wait to bottle.


----------



## seth8530

Yea, i know what you mean about the mountain dew colour lol. I cant think of way to many green wines lol. So how much and in what way would you say that the flavor of your wine improved with a month of aging? and would you make it again?


----------



## kolson5

I haven't tasted it since I put it in the secondary. I will probably stablize and bottle it in a week or two, so I will update you with a taste test then. As to making it again, it will depend on how it tastes in 6 months or a year. I don't have alot of experience (only started making wine last summer) but the other fruit wines I made were a lot better after at least 6 months....too bad I am running out of full bottles.


----------



## seth8530

I know what you are talking a bout when it comes to space lol. I have considerd aging it with some cinamon sticks or vanilla chips. but i dont know if the flavor would taste good with it or not/


----------



## kolson5

vanilla might be very nice. i think i will stick with just the plain stuff this time but if i like it, vanilla to finish next time might be tasty.


----------



## seth8530

yea, only prob is that i dont know where to get vanila chips or how much vanilla flavoring i would have to use tho. any idea?


----------



## arcticsid

Well I got to give it to you guys.This is for sure one of the most interesting recipes we've seen in here, but by golly, it seems to be working. Good job.

I like the idea of a touch of flavoring on the next one.


----------



## seth8530

im just glad that mine isnt the only one that looks like mountain dew lol. Do you think that bottled vanilla flavoring is the wrong way to go about adding vanilla to the wine?


----------



## arcticsid

I honestly don't know.

If it were me, I would not use imitation vanilla flavoring. Go with pure vanilla extract or consider using dried vanilla beans.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques92.asp

heres a recipe from Jack Kellers site for vanilla wine where he mentions using vanilla beans, may give you some ideas.


----------



## seth8530

So his uses about 4 vanila bean pods per gallon while it is fermenting. Do you think that my wine will be able to get an adequate amount of vanila flavor even tho it has been stabailized? does it even matter? Thank you for the link btw. I think ive decided my next project is gona be the fast clearing acient orange mead btw lol


----------



## Leanne

Well, I got dragged round to my neighbour's house again. He showed me the "wine" and let me taste the cheese. The cheese is actually not at all bad. I could imagine using that.


----------



## seth8530

Where you able to tell that the cheese was alcoholic?


----------



## kolson5

I was thinking vanilla beans as well. I am not sure you would want a lot of it though...it could overpower the original flavor. 

I did try my batch today (about 4 weeks in)...the closest taste is sake I think.


----------



## seth8530

Yea, i tried a sip of mine a couple days ago. I still think that it taste kinda unpleasent but i think it is starting to taste a little better now. Ive never had Sake so i wouldnt know if that is what mine taste like or not, but i think it does taste kinda similer to a nuetral distilled alcohol with an added unpleasent taste. Im hoping some time and vanilla beans will do alot to fix that tho


----------



## Leanne

seth8530 said:


> Where you able to tell that the cheese was alcoholic?



No. It just tasted like a mild cottage cheese. Quite pleasant really.


----------



## seth8530

Sounds yummy  so does anyone know where to get vanilla beans from?


----------



## arcticsid

You should be able to find them in the spice aisle.
Are you in a big city? Any large grocery store should have them.

The Safeway here carries them but they are behind the counter, the crack heads were buying them up because they usually come in a glass tube. I wonder what the crack heads want with vanilla beans?? LOL Idiots.

They also have the poppy seeds and a couple other things behind the counter, must be experimenters caused those things to be under scrutiny!! LOL


----------



## seth8530

Do you think that Bilo would have them? or would i have to go all the way to wallmart?


----------



## arcticsid

Never heard of Bilo, but he sounds like one of the above mentioned crackheads!! LOL Wal Mart might have them. Can you call first and ask them. Is that all you have for groceries. Are you out in the country? You could always order them online without a doubt.


----------



## seth8530

Im kinda sorta out in the country lol. We have pigly wigly, BI-LO, Wallmart, And a buncha small discount stores.


----------



## jet

seth8530 said:


> Sounds yummy  so does anyone know where to get vanilla beans from?


Better grocery stores, or online. They're not cheap though, that's why most people bake with artificial.


----------



## seth8530

How much do you think they will cost? i already got a cinamon stick in each gallon of milk wine.


----------



## arcticsid

Even if you don't go with the beans, use Pure Vanilla Extract, also in the spice aisle, don't use the imitation flavored vanilla. Stuff is going to be strong add only a few drops at a time.


----------



## jet

seth8530 said:


> How much do you think they will cost? i already got a cinamon stick in each gallon of milk wine.


My Penzeys Spices catalog lists 3 vanilla beans for 7.25 or 15 for 28.65.


----------



## Mud

Around here Madagascar vanilla beans cost about $15 each. They are 4" long. Used to bite the bullet and buy them when they were $8, but now use extract. Unless you need the bean bits, as in french vanilla ice cream, extract will have the same result.


----------



## seth8530

Thanks guys, i will use the pure vanilla extract. Any idea how much i should use per gallon? 2 tablespons?


----------



## arcticsid

No idea, but add it slow, maybe start with one teaspoon per gallon, maybe less. Pure extract is going to be STRONG. It goes without saying you can add more but can't remove it.


----------



## Runningwolf

seth8530 said:


> Im kinda sorta out in the country lol. *We have pigly wigly*



Is that why you're making the high octane wine?


----------



## seth8530

Its the name of a store -_-. it does not inspire me to create higher potency alcohol but some of the people who work there might lol.

I wonder how long i should let the vanilla sit in the wine before i decide to add more?


----------



## arcticsid

Seth do you work on your wines with a blade of straw in your mouth? Dan may be getting to the truth of this whole thing. LOL

But in your defense, why do you have to live in the country to make high octane wine?

Sometimes we need alcohol and a glass of "regular" wine just won't do.

Yeah Seth!!! Whats wrong with you!!! LMAO.

I would never make high octane wine! I just like to say I do! LOL


----------



## seth8530

hehe good point lol.. and whats wrong with straw blades -_- they are cheaper than toothpicks 5 to 1.

To be honest i believe that there is a semi unexplored area of winemaking. Some call it hooch, but i believe that drinkable high alcohol wine is a largely un explored section of wine making. Im not saying that a two month old bottle of rocket fuel is better than a finely aged bottle of strawberry wine, but i believe that it atleast deserves respect.
I also believe that drinkability and incorporating the Hot taste of high alcohol with the correct fruit and spices go hand in hand.


----------



## arcticsid

NOW. THATS THE SPIRIT!


----------



## seth8530

I thought that it sounded good anyways. I figured that since everyone strives to make a finely ballenced wine, why not make an unballenced wine and gear the flavor to compliment the unbalance. ( I should sell that wine to food and wine) lol


----------



## Runningwolf

We can only imagine you guys drinking this in the streets!


----------



## seth8530

Dude you just gave me a botteling idea... Giant baby bottles!


----------



## arcticsid

LMFAO.
Secrets out now. I never thoought seth was that old!!


----------



## seth8530

Just because i like diapers dont mean im old =_= i just like the ...... security.... they offer.


----------



## arcticsid

I am not prepared to make any further statements at this time!


----------



## seth8530

HEHe, Right now ive got the milk wine degassing with its top off for a few days. im trying to get some of the gas out of it before i let it sit with the top put back on so it can clear out.


----------



## arcticsid

lay it over your shoulder and gently pat it on the back!!! LMFAO now for real.


----------



## seth8530

lol, not a bad idea. The only thing i dont like about plastic is that its really hard to degas with anything other than time.


----------



## seth8530

Ok, a taste update. 

The co2 has now been bled out for the most part ( i think)

The funky taste that i dislike is now more of an after taste making it much more drinkable

I think it taste EXTREMLY nuetral for the most part, minus the farmy taste it seems to have. I think that once i add vanilla extract that i might have something very desirable on my hands. kinda of a fo-vodka. Alcohol is def one of the bigger flavors with this one.

The colour is kinda of a mountain dewish colour.


----------



## The_Zymurgist

Seth,

If you are still aging the milk wine in a carboy, you should try using American Oak chips for at least 2 months. This should impart a very nice vanilla flavor naturally and make the wine extra silky. 

I am starting my batch this weekend. I was originally thinking of using a low temp - slow fermenting yeast strain to keep as much of the fruity phenols intact, but my concern for spoilage has me thinking that a fast-burning, high-temp Champagne yeast is probably the way to go. Also I have a question about the milk used...2%, 1%, or skim? 

Bests,
The_Zymurgist


----------



## seth8530

Remember to use lactict acid pills. I would recoment a faster yeast to try and establish an alcoholic enviroment to mitigate the risk of spoilage.

Also very very important, The cheese product is almost nearly as desirable as the milk wine itself. So i would recoment trying out a whole milk possibly. ( more fat means more cheese ?) 

Where would i get the vanilla chips from? Where do you all buy your wine stuff from online?

Please feel free to use my thread or start a new one and post detailed notes on yours. 

BTW im new to these forums too but ive found the comuniity here to be great so far.


----------



## The_Zymurgist

Seth,

You won't be buying "Vanilla Chips" per se. You'll want to buy American oak chips. These are different from the French oak tree chips as they have more Lactones which produce stronger "Vanilla" and "Sweet" flavors naturally in the wine. As I suggested earlier, I would use them for no less than 2 months. A good place to order them is the website - L.D.Carlson (I can't post a link, but its the name {all one word - ldcarlson} dot com)- once you are at the main page, click on "public catalog", then on "wine" at the table of contents. At the very bottom of the page is a supplier called "StaVin" which has very good oak harvested from Missouri and Minnesota, which happens to be where most wineries buy their wood for barrels to age wine in. For the Milk I would suggest a mild toast.

Also what kind of milk did you use? Was it lactose-free milk, or plain? Reduced Fat (2%), Low Fat (1%), or Skim (Non-Fat)? 

Cheers,
The_Zymurgist


----------



## seth8530

Ill see if my gramp has any american oak chips. Do in need to do anything to prep the chips? Ill check that site out too.

I used standerd 2 percent milk. I bet lactose free milk would work best because you wouldnt have to pitch in lactose pills. If i was you i would find a lactose free milk with a high fat content. I believet that the fat is responcible for the wonderfull cheese we love


----------



## The_Zymurgist

Seth,

I live in great state of Pennsylvania where there is no shortage of oaks, but I still opt to buy the chips because as I said before they are grown in a distinct region and climate, and prized for the flavors they impart, but if you were to use your own, the ideal type would be a dead tree seasoned naturally for 1-3 years. Once you cut it into chips or staves, you will have to kiln-dry them (also kills off bacteria and fungi). As far as kiln-drying them is concerned, I have no idea the EXACT process because I have always purchased the pre-dryed chips. So from here you will be on your own.

Tomorrow I will be starting my batch. I am still torn between regular milk or lactose-free milk. I will probably come down to a matter of price. I will post pics...lots of them. 

Cheers,
The_Zymurgist


----------



## seth8530

Awesum advice. Im thinking that you should make your own thread that way you dont have to worry about your wine getting lost somewhere in the depths of this thread lol

Im really excited about the pictures, what do you plan on making your starting gravity and alcohol. I think that the milk wine takes to the alcotaste pretty well but thats just my oppinion.


----------



## seth8530

The_Zymurgist said:


> Seth,
> 
> I live in great state of Pennsylvania where there is no shortage of oaks, but I still opt to buy the chips because as I said before they are grown in a distinct region and climate, and prized for the flavors they impart, but if you were to use your own, the ideal type would be a dead tree seasoned naturally for 1-3 years. Once you cut it into chips or staves, you will have to kiln-dry them (also kills off bacteria and fungi). As far as kiln-drying them is concerned, I have no idea the EXACT process because I have always purchased the pre-dryed chips. So from here you will be on your own.
> 
> Tomorrow I will be starting my batch. I am still torn between regular milk or lactose-free milk. I will probably come down to a matter of price. I will post pics...lots of them.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> The_Zymurgist



Have you started your batch yet? BTW i managed to get some oak chips from the local winery but im kinda mystified as to how much im sopposed to use lol


----------



## seth8530

Well, the milk wine has thrown us another curve. sneaky and eviel this stuff be.... I sorbated and k-meta'd it as prescribed by the instructions on the bottle.. I then added a cinamon stick to each gallon container. Well i think it took it kinda personal because evidently fermentation restarted lol. 

They all had 2 percent PA left, before i stabalized and now they are bubbiling again. One has 1.5 PA left now and the other two have 1percent left. 


So i have 1.5 gallons of 16 percent alcohol and 1 gallon of 15.5 percent alcohol. 

Also the nasty taste that it used to have is now GONE completly and absalutely gone, it taste like cinamony flavord alcohol. I think it is delicious lol. 
I went ahead and oaked 1 gallon of it. I think im gona rack soon and leave the cinamon behind in the other's that way i dont over cinamon them.


----------



## Leanne

Well, my neighbour has given me a bottle of milk wine ( and some of the cheese curds ). He explained the flavour so far to me as being "acidic but with a background of yoghurt". He is aging some and I will certainly age my bottle. He's enjoyed the experiment and is starting another lot. One happy neighbour! Thanks Seth! LOL.


----------



## seth8530

awesum,  im glad to hear that he is making more. One thing that i did with mine that i loved was adding cinamon sticks to the secondary. The milkwine is VERY good about accepting flavors from other things. My "sample" tasted great because the cinamon actually complimented the hot 17% alcohol flavour and was very enjoyable to drink. Right now i have 2 gallons of the cinamon milk wine aging on american oak chips so im hoping that will give it even more character...

I seriously think that i might be on to something with this stuff.

If i get the chance i will def be making more of this.


----------



## seth8530

Well their is still some obvious visable fermentation going on. The wine is hovering between 16 and 17 percent alcohol. Do oak chips have any apreciatable amount of sugar in them?


----------



## seth8530

Ok, The gravity has stayed constant for over a month now... But it is still bubbiling happily away... What is going on in theier/. Have i created some sort of a monster? Will whatever is going on in their cause halucinations?? Will we be "Milked" now instead of drunk or stoned? 

But seriously, the thing has been in a state that allows gas to escape for well over 2 months now. Its still bubbiling and the gravity aint movin. Any idea's kind sirs? and mams?


----------



## The_Zymurgist

Have you added any Potassium Metabisulfite? If so, how much per gallon? If not, drink some and let me know if you do infact trip your *** off! Another question that may help come to a conclusion is, what temperature are you storing it at? After moving from the primary to the secondary and moving to a temp. controlled room (65 degrees) all fermentation ceased. The milk wine then proceeded to clear very quickly and has been sitting on oak for about 2 weeks. I have yet to add metabisulfite, or even try some of it. Have you drank any "unflavored" just oaked wine yet?

Cheers,
Z.

P.S. I will post pics and my recipe (if you could call it that?) soon.


----------



## seth8530

Im storing mine at about 70 degrees, and i added 30ppm of kmeta via campden tablet to mine a couple months back. It is 16 percent alcohol but i drank 24 oz's and i was like gone. Like drunk. No trips or nothing like that tho.

Mine is cinamon/ oak flavourd. To me, it tasted to farmy without any flavouring. Also be aware that The milk wine is amazing at picking up flavours so keep that in mind.


----------



## Runningwolf

HEY SETH just wondering whose picture are you going to put on the side of the milk carton (bottle) when its done?


----------



## The_Zymurgist

My friend, I have no idea what kind of alchemy you have concocted in your endeavors, but every part of my wine making knowledge is telling me something very bizarre is going on here! 

Is it carbonated? 
Could residual sugars still be fermenting? 

I am truly perplexed at this strange occurrence. I do not how to approach this problem (is it a problem?).


:::Hahahaha, good call Runningwolf:::


----------



## seth8530

Runningwolf said:


> HEY SETH just wondering whose picture are you going to put on the side of the milk carton (bottle) when its done?



Oh u hush lol. ^___^ 

No, its not really carbonated and i dont think its fermenting sugars because the gravity has stayed constant. Who knows what its doing lol


----------



## The_Zymurgist

Well this "farmy" taste has me wondering also. I'll have to go home and take a swig.


----------



## seth8530

yeah, ull know what i mean when i say farmy lol. It reduces with age tho. What colour is urs?


----------



## The_Zymurgist

light "Mountain Dew" ...and yours?


----------



## seth8530

i had the mountain dew colour untill i added cinamon and it asorbed the colour and turnd a light brownish apple juice like colur


----------



## The_Zymurgist

How did cinnamon go over? Did you end up with something tasting like Goldschlager?


----------



## seth8530

It turnd out pretty well. I wish i had vanilla beans ya know... But what is Goldschlager lol?


----------



## The_Zymurgist

cinnamon flavored liqour that makes me want to VOMIT! Vanilla bean sounds very good though!


----------



## seth8530

rofl i gotta try that haha


----------



## kolson5

I think you should give it a quick stir...maybe there just some gasses trapped in there. I agree with the farmy taste. When I bottled mine, it tasted like white wine with a slight milk aftertaste. I had meant to put a little vanilla in half but totally forgot.


----------



## seth8530

Omg ha, so we do agree that the after taste is "Farmy" have a coined I new flavour term lol?


----------



## Torch404

Ok let's add Farmy to the flavor wheel, kinda straw-ey with a hint of cow manure. 

It's most likely just degassing still. Have you done any degassing? In my wines that are almost clear I can see them degassing forever and some do it so much longer then others.


----------



## seth8530

yea.. maybe it is just degassin. i gave it a good shake and it bubbled like mad and gave me about an inch of foam


----------



## seth8530

Ok, with the gallon i have left im attempting to raise it from the dead!! it is 16 percent alcohol right now and i just added enough nutrient and syrup to raise it to 22.5 percent if it ferments dry ^_^ this should be itneristng to say the least


----------



## seth8530

and just doing a preliminary... I heated with a bath of warm water... added energizer... and my lord i think that it is actually fermenting again.. ill know for sure tomomorow... Keep in mind.. this is all AFTER having been sorbated and sulfited plus sittin in my closet for a few months sitting steady at 16percent alcohol with 1 percent alchol potential untapped....


----------



## arcticsid

E=MC2 bro, I think it might be the 2 that gets you. get the horses out of hte barn!!

LOL


----------



## A2

So how did this turn out? Any pics of the final product?


----------



## BernardSmith

Interesting... I made a gallon batch of koumis some months ago using lactose free /fat free milk. For the sugar source I used honey (about 12% ABV) and then added some roasted cocoa nibs. So it is a milk chocolate honey wine... but it doesn't taste like Toblerone although it is becoming noticeably more drinkable as it ages. The color is bright clear with a hint of burnished gold.


----------



## seth8530

From what I remember it was more wine lime than one would expect. I recall it having a greenish hue. But it was not as bad as one would suspect, kind of funKY and Barnardy but likely not something I would do again.


----------



## A2

BernardSmith said:


> Interesting... I made a gallon batch of koumis some months ago using lactose free /fat free milk. For the sugar source I used honey (about 12% ABV) and then added some roasted cocoa nibs. So it is a milk chocolate honey wine... but it doesn't taste like Toblerone although it is becoming noticeably more drinkable as it ages. The color is bright clear with a hint of burnished gold.



That sounds amazing, I've always wanted to try Kumis. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis

I have a buddy in Moscow looking out for it, but I feel it's going to cause issues trying to get it stateside.


----------



## BernardSmith

Traditionally, it is mare's milk that is used to make koumis.. Never tasted the authentic koumis but lactose free cow's milk seems to work OK..


----------

