# Somm!



## Elmer (Jan 15, 2014)

So last night while the boss was out of town I watched a documentary streaming on netflix.
Somm.
This is about a group of people who are attempting to pass the master sommelier exam. I believe worldwide there is less than 200 master sommeliers.

I found this documentary fascinating, they approach wine in ways I cant and maybe wont.
When they taste a wine they throw out atleast 6 to 12 different taste indicators, among my favorite:

"crushed Hillside" 
"Grandma's purse"  
"freshly opened can of tennis balls” 
and “freshly cut garden hose” 

but seriously, who smells a freshly cut garden hose?
And who cuts garden hoses?

I will give them exceptional credit for thier study of regions. They have to know every wine region by name and be able to identify flavors specific to that region, which is why they can blindly taste and identify wines.

However, I can not decide if being a master Sommelier is talent or pretentiousness!

as I was watching I was was drinking a homemade -Cab Franc vintage 2013.
I swirled, sniffed, tasted.
Then I swirled, sniffed, tasted.

I tasted wine.
Where the frack is the taste of the inside of a closet?
But nothing, I tasted wine, dry red, with a hint of red wine!

But regardless, give a documentary a watch it is interesting!


----------



## jamesngalveston (Jan 15, 2014)

I watched it also...But you have to remember they did not taste fruit wines.
Only grape wines...I guess it is because the lowly fruit wine is not considered to be in the same class as a grape wine.
I do not know what even makes a great wine...
For me, its the taste...soft on the palate and the taste of the fruit its made from.
I can not get a grape taste out of a grape wine..But its me.
I dont taste moms old shoes, are dads old shirt, are the drops of dew on the grass....are the salt from a sand dune at early morning.
Bull**** To Me
Sorry guys...I just cant get it...
I make what I like to taste and enjoy, regardless of the hype.


----------



## Rocky (Jan 15, 2014)

It is all a matter of taste and, personally, I don't care what a wine tastes like to an "expert." I only care what the wine tastes like to me. If I like it, it is "good" wine, if I don't it is "not so good" wine. Similarly, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, would ever allow me to see in a Picasso painting anything but an artist slathering paint on a canvas and laughing to himself at the gullibility of the public. I don't think I have ever seen "a Picasso" except in photographs or on television nor have I tasted a $2000 bottle of wine. Had I done so, in either case, I am sure my life would not have been affected one iota in either direction.


----------



## BernardSmith (Jan 15, 2014)

I am not hijacking this thread. Honestly, I am not, but I don't think Picasso "slathered" paint on any canvas. Perhaps his most famous work (certainly in Europe if not the USA) is Guernica and I don't know anyone who has looked at this painting and not felt the pain of people trapped in war. But to return to "crushed hillsides" and "grannie's purse" I don't know if I agree with the purple language but I do see what is being offered here. If you want to tell someone what color you see in the sky right now , right here, "blue" is not very informative. If you want to tell someone what aromas you smell in a freesia, what vocabulary, what words do you have? We tend not to have a richly developed vocabulary for smell or taste. James (Sorry to call you out, James) tastes apricots when he makes apricot wine or blueberries when he makes blueberry wine.. and that is fine. Perhaps for James and 300,000,000 other US residents apples are apples are apples... but what happens if you are asked to taste a granny smith and then a Jona gold and then a cox's orange pippin. All apples. But they don't taste the same. How do you tell me (or anyone) what you taste when you taste a cox's orange pippin? How does THAT apple taste different from a granny smith? Those sommeliers are (I think) simply trying to create and use a vocabulary that "captures" tastes and smells for which we simply do not have an everyday vocabulary. For colors we tend to have a richer vocabulary (grey or gray? duck egg blue or duck egg green, aqua or turquoise? ) but for tastes and aromas we are vocabulary poor. So what do folk (sommeliers, wine makers) who work with and depend on their ability to discern incredibly fine differences in taste and smell, do ? They make up an argot of words and phrases that they use to communicate. And when we overhear their chatter we burst out laughing. But perhaps we would snort less if their language seemed less... pretentious

http://www.pablopicasso.org/guernica.jsp


----------



## jamesngalveston (Jan 15, 2014)

To be honest...If i ferment 3 different apples the exact same way, with the same yeast, same abv, etc..I probably could not tell the difference in the glass.
I can tell the difference between said fruits, as blackberry to apple when blindfolded.
I can not tell the difference in a blackberry from Texas as opposed to one from Louisiana are Argentina, are Kansas.


----------



## Elmer (Jan 15, 2014)

I think taste is personal and individual.
Regardless if it is wine, apples or art.
My wife likes that very tart green apples. I like a fuji.
She likes fluffly rom/coms, I like watching baseball and football.

Anyway. I look a Picasso and I see art. I see the gift of someone who can paint and brush strokes. I have never been able to feel anger or remorse in a painting. But I see the beauty of the art and effort and talent of the artisan.
Even the new avant garde paiting, I appreciate the effort I just cant feel the artists "pain" through the painting!

Wine wise, I dont doubt that there are people who can taste things that we can not and express it accordingly.

for example, my wife can not taste the plum, oak, smokeyness, peppers or leathery notes that are common in many different wines.
She a poor ability to taste. but she knows what she likes.

What I find pretentious is applying a label that would be more individual than generic.

"Pepper" or "vanilla" we all know the taste.
"newly upholstered couch" varies depending on the person. 

When I taste a wine tell me what is there. Fruits, chocolates, peppers, leathers, dark, light, strong etc....
NO hillsides!

but then again I am only refined enough so my blue collar friends can shun me for it!


----------



## ShawnDTurner (Jan 15, 2014)

Most of these people have hyper sensitive palates and can detect these aromas. I myself can do the same thing with just about any food or drink. Cheers


----------



## jamesngalveston (Jan 15, 2014)

I guess, I am not refined, are have a hyper sensitive palate..
No matter what...It all taste like chicken.


----------



## JohnT (Jan 15, 2014)

ShawnDTurner said:


> Most of these people have hyper sensitive palates and can detect these aromas. I myself can do the same thing with just about any food or drink. Cheers


 

Just to expand on this.. 

The story is this. These few 200 people that are masters have a pallet that is freakishly complex. The idea is that they can detect more flavor components than the average human. 

In short, they have mutant tongues.

Now this being true or not is up to debate.


----------



## JohnT (Jan 15, 2014)

No Response???? 

Honestly????

I use a term like "Mutant tongue" and 10 minutes goes by with no follow up jokes??? 

I am shocked!!!!!


----------



## BernardSmith (Jan 15, 2014)

jamesngalveston said:


> I guess, I am not refined, are have a hyper sensitive palate..
> No matter what...It all taste like chicken.



I guess where and when we think it is significant and important we have good palates for the purposes at hand (as we sociologists are wont to say), but for the most part our purposes at hand don't require we pay very much attention to differences in taste and smell. (it's like the fellow who says that all reds are red - rust, orange, pink, crimson, blood) The difference is in what we ask our palates to do and whether we work hard to disable our palate's ability to detect fine differences or whether we work hard to enhance its capabilities. I have no idea whether blueberries shipped from different parts of the US taste different, but I do know that different varieties of ripe blueberries or ripe strawberries picked locally do taste very different.


----------



## Elmer (Jan 15, 2014)

JohnT said:


> No Response????
> 
> Honestly????
> 
> ...



Sorry, 
I was stuck in a statewide conference call for close to 2 hours!

But that very well maybe the best two word to ever be placed side by side!
"Mutant tongue" 

And it is darn fun to say!


----------



## JohnT (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Elmer, 

You have restored my faith in the members of this forum.


----------



## DirtyDawg10 (Jan 15, 2014)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Tongues


----------



## seth8530 (Jan 15, 2014)

I personnaly can taste many of the less exotic flavours that are talked about in wine tasting. Ie, pepper, leather, chocolate, mineralness, florals, tofee, earthy, melon/honeydew, peachyness, smoke,berry,darkfruit..ect

All of these flavours are not exactly what you would associate with "grape" but if you taste for them you can learn to look for them and eventually be able to find them in your wine without first inspecting the label. In fact, I have been practicing by first buying a wine, or whiskie and then tasting coming up with on the fly taste notes and then following up with taste reviews from professionals about that specific wine/whiskie.

Usually I do pretty good at finding the more basic taste I have mentioned, but I do not think I could find back side of grandma's panties if I even knew what to look for.


----------



## Rocky (Jan 15, 2014)

_"I look (at) a Picasso and I see art. I see the gift of someone who can paint and brush strokes. I have never been able to feel anger or remorse in a painting. But I see the beauty of the art and effort and talent of the artisan."_

Yeah, Elmer, I see what you mean. I should have saved some of my grandsons' work from kindergarten. Who know?...


----------



## JohnT (Jan 15, 2014)

I think that I can see a mutant tongue in both of those paintings!


----------



## DirtyDawg10 (Jan 16, 2014)

I watched this movie on Netflix last night and found it very interesting. I think these people can actually train their tongue to taste certain things. Or should I say that the taste is always there but they learn how to distinguish certain characteristics and have names associated with them. It appeared to me from the movie that this comes from extensive study and training. Doing blind wine tastings and trying to guess the region that produced it. It is amazing that they are often able to "call" the wine correctly. I never would care to be at this level of wine tasting but after watching I think it may be fun to try some of those blind tastings.


----------



## Floandgary (Jan 16, 2014)

The power of suggestion is ever-so-evident in wine tasting. We all know what we like and gravitate to it, but thankfully we are also wise enough not to limit our experience. Trying other wines is a good thing, enhanced by what we are told should be the predominant "palate and nose". So many ways to be content!!!


----------



## Elmer (Jan 16, 2014)

DirtyDawg10 said:


> I watched this movie on Netflix last night and found it very interesting. I think these people can actually train their tongue to taste certain things. Or should I say that the taste is always there but they learn how to distinguish certain characteristics and have names associated with them. It appeared to me from the movie that this comes from extensive study and training. Doing blind wine tastings and trying to guess the region that produced it. It is amazing that they are often able to "call" the wine correctly. I never would care to be at this level of wine tasting but after watching I think it may be fun to try some of those blind tastings.



I think it would be alot of fun to get to blindly taste some of the wines these people tried.

Of course I can not tell the difference between a Napa Pinot Noir and a New Zealand Pinot.

That is that part I found fascinating. The study of the regions, the climates, the soil, the elevation.
Taking that info and being able to taste a wine and know that a certian soil, which produces a grape is associated with the flavor of the wine.

The tracing of the maps and flashcards were/are something I could not do.

I also do not recall that anyone in the movie made bad remarks about any wine!

but missing from the entire movie, was someone simply saying that all tastes and prefences are individual!


----------



## Floandgary (Jan 16, 2014)

ROCKY,, your post brings to mind Higgs-boson and "Big Bang Theory's" Dr Sheldon Cooper,"Phd", keeping his life history journals!! LOL


----------



## DirtyDawg10 (Jan 16, 2014)

I thought it was great when one of the guys studying for the exam said something like...I can't wait to sit on a beach and drink a beer and forget about wine fore a little while.


----------



## jamesngalveston (Jan 16, 2014)

This is art, by Hans Brewhaufs, and valued at 60,000 dollars.


Only kidding...1st grade art picture from the web.


----------



## BernardSmith (Jan 16, 2014)

Elmer said:


> but missing from the entire movie, was someone simply saying that all tastes and prefences are individual!


Elmer, I think preferences are very personal but being able to identify and talk about the flavors , colors and "nose" that are to be found in a wine is presumably something that can be independently confirmed by others or not. In other words, there is a world of difference between saying (to use a different metaphor) that I prefer Hemmingway to Mailer or that Rowlings sucks and being able to show how different Hemmingway's use of language is from Mailer's or how Rowling uses plot to drive her characters or the ways in which Mailer's characters drive his plots.


----------



## DirtyDawg10 (Jan 16, 2014)

From what I gathered the Somm's job is not to tell someone which wines are good and which wines are bad. There probably is not a bad wine in the restaurant of a Somm. Their job is to help the patrons select a wine based on the characteristic that they (the patron) like and that would pair well with the food they are intending to have.


----------



## Elmer (Jan 16, 2014)

BernardSmith said:


> Elmer, I think preferences are very personal but being able to identify and talk about the flavors , colors and "nose" that are to be found in a wine is presumably something that can be independently confirmed by others or not. In other words, there is a world of difference between saying (to use a different metaphor) that I prefer Hemmingway to Mailer or that Rowlings sucks and being able to show how different Hemmingway's use of language is from Mailer's or how Rowling uses plot to drive her characters or the ways in which Mailer's characters drive his plots.



I think I agree to a point.
However I would say as an example, 
Some people prefer Pinot Noir, some Merlot.
That would be preference.

My wife can not taste the heavy Oak or raspberry in my heavily Oaked Choco/Rasp.
Where as I can.

I know sometime drinking a wine (or whiskey for that matter) I can taste a hint of vanilla or a different flavor, sometimes I get an odd look because no one else gets that.
But then others pic up on other flavors that I dont get.

My "mutant Tongue" may not been as keen as yours!

I guess my point was that wine is wine, much like Hemmingway/Mailer/Rowlings is all Literature.

However you prefer Hemmingway.
I prefer Alan Moore!

you read Hemmingway and pick up on the Nuances of characters in the story.
I read hemmingway and it is about an old man on a boat!


----------



## Rocky (Jan 16, 2014)

Floandgary said:


> ROCKY,, your post brings to mind Higgs-boson and "Big Bang Theory's" Dr Sheldon Cooper,"Phd", keeping his life history journals!! LOL



I am not sure what you mean by this statement, Flo and/or Gary. I have never watched "The Big Bang Theory" and I am not familiar with the characters. Please enlighten me.

Regarding Higgs boson, I have made it a life goal since attaining my BS to assiduously avoid anything to do with quantum physics or quantum mechanics. Thus far, I have nobly succeeded.


----------



## jswordy (Jan 16, 2014)

I've had that movie on my Netflix list forever. Need to watch it. Can't say I've read the thread. No spoilers allowed!


----------



## DirtyDawg10 (Jan 16, 2014)

I wasn't planning to watch this entire video but he sucked me in and I couldn't stop watching.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5tANkR2wRI[/ame]


----------



## jamesngalveston (Jan 16, 2014)

you have to remember, only a fine restaraunt will have a somm on staff.
and guess what, they can somm u up in a minute as what they think you can afford...the richer you look and act the better the wine they will recommend. if they always sale the cheap stuff, they will be out of a job...
all things equal...its still horse ***** to me.


----------



## cmason1957 (Jan 16, 2014)

My one and only experience with a somm was in Vegas at some fancy restaurant being paid for by someone else. They knew I made wine and left the decision as to what to drink to me. We all ordered steak, so obviously it had to be red. I went with a pinot noir from one of my favorite areas, The Russian River Valley of California, Sonoma County. I figured it would be light and fruity enough for all and it was. 

What did the Somm contribute to the whole process? He asked me if he should swap out our wine glasses since we didn't have the correct ones for a pinot. Of course he should. I couldn't tell any difference in the ones he brought out, but who knows.


----------



## jamesngalveston (Jan 16, 2014)

lol..he did his job..and that was to give you an somm expeirence.
love that post, by the way.


----------



## DirtyDawg10 (Jan 17, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pzeODLRiRw


----------



## jamesngalveston (Jan 17, 2014)

dawg....I can not tell you how much i loved that video...
excellent, excellent, excellent. best post yet.


----------



## Scott (Jan 17, 2014)

DOES IT GO WITH LAMB, DOES IT GO WITH LAMB? Good one dawg


----------



## Gwand (Jan 17, 2014)

DirtyDawg10 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pzeODLRiRw



Very funny.


----------



## jswordy (Jan 20, 2014)

I just finished the film. I believe it is entirely possible to train one's smell and taste like an athlete trains for competition. Don't forget that they have to actually name the region, specific location, type and year of each of six wines in a blind test.

What came through to me was the extreme devotion it takes to just take the test, let alone the devotion it takes to retake it over and over in an effort to pass after having failed before.

I think that, like a devotion to art, there's a place in the world for a select group of people who are devoted to wine. which to me at its best is a form of liquid art.

My singular criticism, as a winemaker who uses American grapes, is the flat statement that vitas vinifera is the only grape used for wine and that the vines traveled as easy with explorers and the film tries to imply. Lambrusca, riparia, and rotundifolia all have had large regional and even national roles in winemaking in America. It took over 200 years to get vinifera to grow successfully in the U.S., for example, on native root stocks. Even Thomas Jefferson could not succeed at it.

Overall, a very well-done documentary that captures the singular drive it takes to excel.


----------



## tonyt (Jan 20, 2014)

JohnT said:


> These few 200 people that are masters have a pallet that is freakishly complex. The idea is that they can detect more flavor components than the average human.
> 
> In short, they have mutant tongues.



So even if they do have "mutant tongues" my issue is specifically which grandma's purse does it smell like. Is it Grandma Moses purse or Grandma Pugga's? Does it smell like Grandma Sophia's red vinyl purse or her white Lucite purse or is it her black beaded purse that still has moth balls in it?

To me they just aren't near specific and descript enough.


----------



## Rocky (Jan 20, 2014)

I ran into one of these "experts" and challenged him to a contest. The whole episode was filmed and is presented for your viewing pleasure.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-aQhLTDUjQ[/ame]


----------



## Gwand (Jan 20, 2014)

jswordy said:


> I just finished the film. I believe it is entirely possible to train one's smell and taste like an athlete trains for competition. Don't forget that they have to actually name the region, specific location, type and year of each of six wines in a blind test.
> 
> What came through to me was the extreme devotion it takes to just take the test, let alone the devotion it takes to retake it over and over in an effort to pass after having failed before.
> 
> ...


 
I once had the fortune of being invited to a wine tasting dinner hosted by Robert Parker, editor of the wine advocate. He is both revered and hated throughout the winemaking world. He is actually a very generous person with an immense knowledge in wine tasting. He has two spectacular traits that appear to be innate. First he is a super taster and can identify just about any flavor profile. What truly makes him a wine tasting savant is his olfactory and gustatory memory. By sniffing and tasting he lays down the memory of the varietal, the vintage and the vineyard that he can instantaneously recall when he experiences the wine on another occasion. On that particular evening he brought a flight of red and white hermitage wine's, six wines in each flight, dating back to 1928. It was an out of body experience drinking these amazing northern Rhône wines in a vertical tasting. We all learned an immense amount that night from Robert Parker. He may have brought the world the horrible hundred point scoring system, but there can be no denying his special gifts.


----------

