# What happens if I don't sanitize an instrument?



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

What happens if I don't sanitize an instrument?

For example if I took a hydrometer reading and forgot to spray it.


----------



## Tom (Jan 16, 2011)

What do YOU think?


----------



## Wade E (Jan 16, 2011)

Do you really need to ask this question? The answer is you risk ruining your wine by introducing it to bacteria which in effect will cause an infection.


----------



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

Wade E said:


> Do you really need to ask this question? The answer is you risk ruining your wine by introducing it to bacteria which in effect will cause an infection.



Even with that small amount?


----------



## CountryClubWine (Jan 16, 2011)

Would you want to risk it. Sanitation from what I read is the most important step.


----------



## Wade E (Jan 16, 2011)

Keep trying and report back. It wont happen every time but will eventually.


----------



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

CountryClubWine said:


> Would you want to risk it. Sanitation from what I read is the most important step.



It was by accident, I'm wondering how much risk I'm at.


----------



## EngineJoe (Jan 16, 2011)

The risk depends on how well it was cleaned after the last use, how it was stored, etc. But there's ALWAYS a risk if you don't sanitize.

The only upside is that you're making wine, not beer. The higher ABV and lower nutrient content both help keep the risk of infections from such mistakes relatively lower compared to beer, which has more nutrients, more unfermented long-chain sugars, and in most cases, less alcohol...

So cross your fingers and hope for the best, it's all you can do! And don't do it again.


----------



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

EngineJoe said:


> The risk depends on how well it was cleaned after the last use, how it was stored, etc. But there's ALWAYS a risk if you don't sanitize.
> 
> The only upside is that you're making wine, not beer. The higher ABV and lower nutrient content both help keep the risk of infections from such mistakes relatively lower compared to beer, which has more nutrients, more unfermented long-chain sugars, and in most cases, less alcohol...
> 
> So cross your fingers and hope for the best, it's all you can do! And don't do it again.



Noted, thanks!


----------



## chachi44089 (Jan 16, 2011)

I think there are too many variables to guess the amount of risk. I would just keep a close eye and nose on it. If something looks or smells like its going wrong, maybe someone on here can help with some usefull information how to save it. Being a beginner myself, i made a check list i use so i dont miss anything. I am a bit surprised by some of the replies you got, being that this is a beginners area. With the exception of engineJoe, that was helpful..


----------



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

chachi44089 said:


> I think there are too many variables to guess the amount of risk. I would just keep a close eye and nose on it. If something looks or smells like its going wrong, maybe someone on here can help with some usefull information how to save it. Being a beginner myself, i made a check list i use so i dont miss anything. I am a bit surprised by some of the replies you got, being that this is a beginners area. With the exception of engineJoe, that was helpful..



Thanks!

One more question on this, for adding dry ingredients like nutrient, tannin, etc, do you spray your measuring spoon?


----------



## captainl (Jan 16, 2011)

on a similar note, how long does contact take with K-meta sanitizer in a spray bottle. I've been spraying it and letting it sit for only a minute or two. Ok, I;ll search for that one.


----------



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

captainl said:


> on a similar note, how long does contact take with K-meta sanitizer in a spray bottle. I've been spraying it and letting it sit for only a minute or two. Ok, I;ll search for that one.



Hmm, I haven't been letting mine sit at all, I thought it worked instantly.


----------



## chachi44089 (Jan 16, 2011)

I was told about 3 min. contact for k-meta to work..Thats what I do. I mix up some in a small bucket and soak my bungs, airlocks , spoons and all...Then a quick rinse in clean water before using..I also wash my hands with antibactirial soap before handling stuff too.


----------



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

chachi44089 said:


> I was told about 3 min. contact for k-meta to work..Thats what I do. I mix up some in a small bucket and soak my bungs, airlocks , spoons and all...Then a quick rinse in clean water before using..I also wash my hands with antibactirial soap before handling stuff too.



Odd, I'd think the water would have some bacteria in it and/or wash the k-meta off and allow bacteria in the air to contact the utensil. I've been giving my a spray with k-meta, and then letting the excess drip off but still be wet.

Or sometimes I spray a sheet pan with k-meta, spray my instruments and the then lay them on the sheet pan, as a sterile tray.


----------



## Wade E (Jan 16, 2011)

True, dont wash the k-meta off as you are re-introducing bacteria. I think 2-3 minutes is enough and you should be letting it drip dry. For a measuring scoop, I spray, let sit and then wipe dry with a paper towel.


----------



## abefroman (Jan 16, 2011)

Wade E said:


> True, dont wash the k-meta off as you are re-introducing bacteria. I think 2-3 minutes is enough and you should be letting it drip dry. For a measuring scoop, I spray, let sit and then wipe dry with a paper towel.




Thanks Wade, good tips!


----------



## EngineJoe (Jan 16, 2011)

Yeah, there are some sanitizers you have to rinse with water (bleach, iodine, etc), but K-meta, star-san, 1step and the like do not need it. So don't rinse.

If you do use a sanitizer that requires rinsing, you need to rinse with previously boiled water -- otherwise you can introduce bacteria, as Wade noted.


----------



## Wade E (Jan 16, 2011)

Iodophor is a iodine based sanitizer that is no rinse.


----------



## EngineJoe (Jan 16, 2011)

Wade E said:


> Iodophor is a iodine based sanitizer that is no rinse.



True, in the technical sense. But some people can (or at least claim to) taste it. I haven't used it in years, but when I did, I couldn't taste it and it worked fine for me. But I have a lot of customers who either don't use it or rinse when using it because they say they can taste it.


----------



## chachi44089 (Jan 16, 2011)

Great info..I only rinsed because the guy who sold me the k-meta said to do so. I kinda thought it didnt make alot of sense..I only see a few droplets on the stuff by the time I go to use it. I cant see how that would harm anything..Much rather add a few drops of sulfites than a few drops of bacteria..I now use a sanitizer called "Sparkle-Brite", I dont rinse at all now. And its much more economical than buying meta-k.


----------



## Dugger (Jan 16, 2011)

Many winemakers are told to not let sulphites anywhere near yeast so they rinse at the fermentation stage. I did that for years until someone more experienced told me that the small exposure to this level of sulphite would not be harmful. I don't rinse anymore.
By the way, I understood that these sulphites sanitize on contact - is this incorrect?


----------



## cpfan (Jan 16, 2011)

Dugger said:


> By the way, I understood that these sulphites sanitize on contact - is this incorrect?


Depends on your definition of contact. From a Univ of Florida web page (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs077).


> The official definition (Association of Official Analytical Chemists) of sanitizing for food product contact surfaces is a process which reduces the contamination level by 99.999% (5 logs) in *30 sec. *



My bolding, Steve


----------



## JordanPond (Jan 16, 2011)

The active ingredient of Sparkle-brite is sodium hypochlorite which I belive is the primary ingredient of bleach. Any chemists out there to confirm? I thought I've read in other forum posts that many winemakers avoid using bleach based products because it can contribute to cork taint. Any body want to straighten me out on this?


----------



## phermenter (Jan 16, 2011)

abefroman said:


> What happens if I don't sanitize an instrument?
> 
> For example if I took a hydrometer reading and forgot to spray it.



Unless I've miss something here, we're still missing a key piece of information: Was this unsanitized contact before or after fermentation?

If it was on day one with must that had not yet begun to produce alcohol, the danger seems much greater than if it was on day 15 or 20, just checking how it was going. If it's mostly fermented, the alcohol in the wine should mean a hydrometer that was basically clean but unsanitized hardly matters at all.

Jim


----------



## EngineJoe (Jan 16, 2011)

phermenter said:


> Unless I've miss something here, we're still missing a key piece of information: Was this unsanitized contact before or after fermentation?



Fair point, Jim. Pre-fermentation is the most risky time.

On the trying to stay positive side --- even prefermentation, if he used a good, appropriately sized pitch of fresh, properly reconstituted yeast and had it start up and get going quickly, then very often the yeast will consume the fermentable sugars before the wild yeasts and/or bacteria gets much of a toe-hold. Then stabilization can help limit/stop things from there. Still, that's more variables and hoping things go well than I'd like.


----------



## Dugger (Jan 16, 2011)

cpfan said:


> Depends on your definition of contact. From a Univ of Florida web page (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fs077).
> 
> 
> My bolding, Steve



I understand from this that their definition of something being sanitized is if there is a reduction of the bad guys by 99.999 % within 30 sec. That's fine but I think the sulphite does it on contact which is well within the 30 sec. But I could be wrong in my thinking so was looking for others thoughts on whether it's on contact or does it need exposure time like some other sanitizers.

Edit - maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, Steve - by contact I mean if I spray my hydrometer with sodium meta, I assume it is instantly sanitized and I don't have to submerge it for 30 seconds in a sulphite solution.


----------



## wvbrewer (Jan 17, 2011)

I try and clean everything right before I do any work so I don't forget to sanitize anything that wil touch the must.


----------

