# Research into home winemaking - TIME TO TAKE THE SURVEY



## REDRUM (Mar 10, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I am an anthropologist based at the University of Adelaide, Australia, who studies wine production and consumption. My research to date has mostly been to do with commercial wine, but as a home winemaker myself (and a member of this forum for a few years) I want to extend research into home and amateur winemaking, because this is an area that is often ignored! In particular, I am interested in the way knowledge, techniques, cultures and practices of winemaking are communicated and shared.

Please let me know by replying here (or by private message) if you are likely to be interested in participating in this research and answering some questions about your own winemaking. I want to hear from a range of winemakers from different places, with different perspectives and different levels of experience and expertise, from first-timers to serious hobbyists with their own vineyards.

The data collection will take the form of online surveying, and this may be followed up by more detailed questions via private message or email. All your responses will be anonymous: I will not collect or divulge any information that might identify you personally.

Thanks in advance!

Bill Skinner – william.skinner*at*adelaide.edu.au


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## NorCal (Mar 11, 2020)

Sure, count me in, I’m assuming you will be sharing the results as well?


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## sour_grapes (Mar 11, 2020)

PM sent.


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## joeswine (Mar 11, 2020)

I believe we did this before in the past only with a woman at the time. And know responses were ever given, from the receiver.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 11, 2020)

Hey Bill. Happy to help.


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## Johnd (Mar 11, 2020)

I’d be happy to help as well.


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## cmason1957 (Mar 11, 2020)

Bill, I am happy to help as well.


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## REDRUM (Mar 12, 2020)

joeswine said:


> I believe we did this before in the past only with a woman at the time. And know responses were ever given, from the receiver.


That's disappointing - my aim is to share findings with the group as soon as I can. Once I have the online survey up and running I will link to it from the forum!


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 12, 2020)

Count me in ,


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## Kraffty (Mar 12, 2020)

I'll play too!
Mike


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## Wiz (Mar 12, 2020)

I'm in.


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## joeswine (Mar 12, 2020)

I didn't say I won't, I only know what was done in the past.
Usually when someone wants data there going to publish it in some format some where.
If I wanted to write an E/Book I could do it myself.
If you wanted advice there's threads of it daily.
Something isn't correct here ,not for me.
And that's why we didn't do this last time


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## robert81650 (Mar 12, 2020)

Count me in....................


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## mainshipfred (Mar 12, 2020)

You can include me as well.


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## BernardSmith (Mar 12, 2020)

Hi Redrum, My background is in medical sociology so I would be interested in learning more about your project and would consider participating - but surveys (in my opinion) are often a very poor way to obtain good data. What you have on this and similar forums are tens of thousands of (public) posts that are raw data for at least some of your questions: what people say they do and what they in fact do may be very different and how people make sense of questions the social scientist asks is itself a topic of research and is not something transparent.


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## 1d10t (Mar 12, 2020)

REDRUM said:


> In particular, I am interested in the way knowledge, techniques, cultures and practices of winemaking are communicated and shared.
> 
> The data collection will take the form of online surveying,



It's one thing to collect that information here but is this the sole methodology? Seems there would be a lot of shoe leather involved in getting to what seems to be a very large number of people that don't use this, or any, forum. People that stick around here are generally not the average hobbyist but those trying to perfect their craft more.


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## Rocky (Mar 13, 2020)

I would be pleased to participate.


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## joeswine (Mar 13, 2020)

BenardSmith, makes all the sense in the world.
Any of you who were crossed over from the old thread knowes I always put out info and photos on how to. 
We all answered questions day after day ..


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## mainshipfred (Mar 13, 2020)

It appears the folks agreeing to participate in the survey fall into the category of "not your average hobbyist" although it's a start. To me this appears to be a neutral survey and not one leaning toward the one footing the bill.


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## joeswine (Mar 13, 2020)

Id10t, your correct in your thinking at least I think so .
There's enough raw data throughout this forum to glean first then ask your questions.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 13, 2020)

I am pretty sure that the OP knows how to conduct a valid research study. https://researchers.adelaide.edu.au/profile/william.skinner


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## joeswine (Mar 13, 2020)

Not for me.


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## Jan (Mar 13, 2020)

Will participate.


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## jgmann67 (Mar 13, 2020)

I’m in.


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## JustJoe (Mar 13, 2020)

As an "average" hobbyist, I would be happy to participate


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## Dkrmwiz (Mar 13, 2020)

This sounds fun, I'll help. Count me in too, please.


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## ThunderFred (Mar 13, 2020)

I'm happy to participate.


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## crcarey (Mar 13, 2020)

Count me in.


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## BernardSmith (Mar 13, 2020)

1d10t , There should be no fundamental problem for anyone engaged in research to use online forums to gather data about how members of those forums (note my wording) interact with other members and how they may talk about how they interact with others who may be members of other forums or who are not members of any forum.That said, there MAY be ethical issues if some people on a public forum object. But that would be something for a university IRB (institutional review board) to consider (IRB's determine the ethical issues surrounding research on live human subjects and either give a green light for the project or call a halt if they believe that the ethical issues have not been resolved).

If the researcher states that this and this was the sample I studied and this and this is what I have learned from this sample then there is no need for that researcher to look for different or other samples. One of the great social scientists of the 20th Century, Harvey Sacks, a man who single-handedly created a whole new branch of research now called conversational analysis, spent years examining what people said when they called a suicide hotline. 
If the researcher is making a claim about What ANYONE or EVERYONE does then this kind of research may not be sufficient but "grounded theory", for example, simply demands that the researcher "codes" the raw data as themes that emerge FROM the data and continues to organize the data into those emergent themes in ways that saturate the themes with data, until there are no data left outside of any theme and and all the data that is assigned to a theme covers that theme completely. (Surveys begin (and largely end) with ideas that are not emergent from the data themselves but come from external sources (what someone thinks they know or what someone wants to find out and so asks, whether or not those questions are anything that the respondents have ever thought about as they go about their daily lives) but as an anthropologist, REDRUM would be very aware of all this.


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## Rocky (Mar 13, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> I am pretty sure that the OP knows how to conduct a valid research study. https://researchers.adelaide.edu.au/profile/william.skinner



I am in complete agreement with Paul. I think we can safely give Bill the benefit of the doubt regarding his methodology for his research. PhD's don't come in Cracker Jack boxes and doctoral theses require extensive data gathering, sifting and interpretation. Yes, he could glean some useful information from going through the 700,000+ posts on this forum but he would probably be retired before he completed the work.


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## 1d10t (Mar 13, 2020)

No aspersions on the OP but anyone keeping tabs on the amount of bogus research being pumped out would be skeptical. Even on important studies no one wants to do the work of validating someone else's work. They prefer to do their own. Publish or perish has led to a ton of truly crap work flooding the publications. Credentials are no ticket to exemption. That's why I asked the question. All I have to go by is what was in the original post. I'm not making up stuff in my mind to fill the gaps and take that leap of faith. You are free to do as you wish.


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## Callmike (Mar 14, 2020)

I would like to participate in the survey! Thanks for all of your hard work.


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## montanarick (Mar 14, 2020)

REDRUM said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am an anthropologist based at the University of Adelaide, Australia, who studies wine production and consumption. My research to date has mostly been to do with commercial wine, but as a home winemaker myself (and a member of this forum for a few years) I want to extend research into home and amateur winemaking, because this is an area that is often ignored! In particular, I am interested in the way knowledge, techniques, cultures and practices of winemaking are communicated and shared.
> 
> ...


I'd be happy to give a go at it!


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 15, 2020)

I am willing to do the survey.
As an industry foods person I look at wine as a low tech preservative system which worked 4000 years ago. The industry job is in good part figuring out the rules which make the system work and finding sensors and writing control logic to replace “skilled in the art”.


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## joeswine (Mar 15, 2020)

Nothing can replace a wine makers creativity, there are things in life that takes human creativity and the desire to make something your own.
If your referring to the MFG. Steps.There needed to control the.process for the novice winemakers. Either way eventually the novice becomes advanced if they stay the course and learn to think outside the box.


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## joeswine (Mar 15, 2020)

Nothing can replace a wine makers creativity, there are things in life that takes human creativity and the desire to make something your own.


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## BernardSmith (Mar 16, 2020)

1d10t said:


> No aspersions on the OP but anyone keeping tabs on the amount of bogus research being pumped out would be skeptical. Even on important studies no one wants to do the work of validating someone else's work. They prefer to do their own. Publish or perish has led to a ton of truly crap work flooding the publications. Credentials are no ticket to exemption. That's why I asked the question. All I have to go by is what was in the original post. I'm not making up stuff in my mind to fill the gaps and take that leap of faith. You are free to do as you wish.



Very true that a lot of poor research gets published in part because of the need to publish for tenure and the tiny number of openings there are for tenure (it is as someone said recently like being the winner in a state lottery given the number seeking a position vs the number universities and colleges hire as full time faculty) But that said, "poor or research whose findings cannot be replicated by others is generally (in my opinion) done by psychologists and while their work makes enormous claims about how people behave much like physicists and chemists make claims about how matter behaves, people are rather different. Our behavior - our actions - are grounded in meaning and understanding (and an understanding of actions is also grounded in meaning) and when you introduce meaning and understanding then any claims about explanations that are larger than the groups (or individuals) you are observing is pretty close to nonsense, but providing "the good sense" for the actions or understandings of some social actors IS a big deal. But that "good sense" has very little to do with "grand theory"


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## joeswine (Mar 16, 2020)

I'm so confused


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## REDRUM (Mar 16, 2020)

Hi all, thanks for all the responses -glad to see there's a bit of interest out there. To clarify (hopefully) a few things: I'm a casually-employed academic. This is not a funded research project, but something I'm doing out of self-interest, and to publish a paper or two down the track. I will be sourcing survey participants not just from this forum but from others (including Facebook groups etc), as well as through email lists of winemakers clubs here in Australia. Survey data will be supplementary to the stuff that can be gathered from public posts. Ultimately I'm more interested in qualitative data (peoples' stories & experiences) than quantitative. 
I am checking with my Uni to see if this research needs to go through formal ethics approval processes, but obviously their administrative processes are a bit up in the air at the moment given the COVID-19 situation. Take care out there in these trying times!


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## winemaker81 (Mar 17, 2020)

Email sent. I'm willing to participate.


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## bstnh1 (Mar 18, 2020)

REDRUM said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am an anthropologist based at the University of Adelaide, Australia, who studies wine production and consumption. My research to date has mostly been to do with commercial wine, but as a home winemaker myself (and a member of this forum for a few years) I want to extend research into home and amateur winemaking, because this is an area that is often ignored! In particular, I am interested in the way knowledge, techniques, cultures and practices of winemaking are communicated and shared.
> 
> ...



Odd .... I see nothing in your background that says anthropologist or wine research.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 18, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Odd .... I see nothing in your background that says anthropologist or wine research.



Did you look at that link I posted: https://researchers.adelaide.edu.au/profile/william.skinner



> Dr. Skinner is an early career researcher with a doctorate in Anthropology. His PhD thesis engaged with themes of landscape, regional identity, space and place, dwelling, terroir, production and consumption in the McLaren Vale wine region of South Australia. He has also undertaken anthropological research on wine production in Hvar, Croatia.


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## REDRUM (Mar 18, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Odd .... I see nothing in your background that says anthropologist or wine research.


Sorry I should have posted some links to my bio etc. I finished my PhD in 2015, looking at wine production and regional identity in McLaren Vale, South Australia.

https://researchers.adelaide.edu.au/profile/william.skinner
https://adelaide.academia.edu/WilliamSkinner
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/William_Skinner6


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## joeswine (Mar 18, 2020)

What is it your looking to gain , knowledge?
Each one of us on this forum is his or her own wine maker and we are as individual as we can be with our own style of wine making, background and ethicnic background.
You would have enough paper to edit what can be expounded here.
( And you may not use paper). Ifyou took the time to read what was already here ,then ask general questions it would make sense.
The process in Winemaking is basically the same the difference is the wine maker.


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## REDRUM (Mar 18, 2020)

Hi Joe, I'm not looking to gain knowledge on the process of winemaking (as you say there's plenty of that available throughout the forum)! I am an anthropologist, meaning I am interested in human culture.. what I'm wanting is some insight around things like

what are people's motivations for making their own wine?
what is it that they find most rewarding about the winemaking process?
how do they share information and knowledge about making wine (online and offline)?
.. etc.
Like you said every individual has a different approach that is shaped by their own background and personal context, that's what I'm interested in looking at!!


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## Obelix (Mar 30, 2020)

Sure Bill. I am in.


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## Venatorscribe (Mar 30, 2020)

I 'd be happy to participate


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## JohnT (Mar 31, 2020)

Count me in. Winemaking has been a part of my family's culture for more than 200 years.


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## REDRUM (Apr 1, 2020)

Hi everyone, thanks for your interest!
Here's the link to my home winemaking survey: Home Winemaking Survey.

Cheers 

_This is an independent, unfunded research survey intended to gather responses from amateur and home winemakers who make their own wine from grapes. I am an anthropologist interested in understanding peoples' motivations for making wine as a hobby.

The questions relate to winemakers' practices, preferences and approaches with respect to making, drinking and sharing wine, and to interacting with other winemakers online and offline. All responses are anonymous, and none of the information you provide will be used for commercial purposes. Please indicate at the end of the survey if you wish to be contacted regarding survey findings and research outputs.

All questions are optional, but please complete this survey as accurately as you can. The survey should take 10-15 minutes to complete. Thank you for your participation!

William Skinner_


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## mainshipfred (Apr 1, 2020)

REDRUM said:


> Hi everyone, thanks for your interest!
> Here's the link to my home winemaking survey: Home Winemaking Survey.
> 
> Cheers
> ...



Survey complete


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## Johnd (Apr 1, 2020)

REDRUM said:


> Hi everyone, thanks for your interest!
> Here's the link to my home winemaking survey: Home Winemaking Survey.



I have completed the survey, looking forward to seeing the results............


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## winemaker81 (Apr 1, 2020)

Done. I, too, am interested in the results.


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## JohnT (Apr 1, 2020)

Survey complete


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## FXibley (Apr 4, 2020)

surveyed


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## skyfire322 (Apr 12, 2020)

Completed the survey!


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## robert81650 (Apr 12, 2020)

Have completed survey


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## opus345 (Apr 13, 2020)

REDRUM said:


> Please let me know by replying here (or by private message) if you are likely to be interested in participating in this research and answering some questions about your own winemaking. I want to hear from a range of winemakers from different places, with different perspectives and different levels of experience and expertise, from first-timers to serious hobbyists with their own vineyards.



Im in


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## BernardSmith (Apr 14, 2020)

Survey completed


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## NorCal (Apr 14, 2020)

In case you missed it, here is the link to the survey: *CLICK HERE*


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## vineyarddog (Apr 15, 2020)

Completed!


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## REDRUM (Apr 15, 2020)

NorCal said:


> In case you missed it, here is the link to the survey: *CLICK HERE*


Thanks NorCal!


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 21, 2020)

Survey Completed !


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## hounddawg (Apr 21, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> 1d10t , There should be no fundamental problem for anyone engaged in research to use online forums to gather data about how members of those forums (note my wording) interact with other members and how they may talk about how they interact with others who may be members of other forums or who are not members of any forum.That said, there MAY be ethical issues if some people on a public forum object. But that would be something for a university IRB (institutional review board) to consider (IRB's determine the ethical issues surrounding research on live human subjects and either give a green light for the project or call a halt if they believe that the ethical issues have not been resolved).
> 
> If the researcher states that this and this was the sample I studied and this and this is what I have learned from this sample then there is no need for that researcher to look for different or other samples. One of the great social scientists of the 20th Century, Harvey Sacks, a man who single-handedly created a whole new branch of research now called conversational analysis, spent years examining what people said when they called a suicide hotline.
> If the researcher is making a claim about What ANYONE or EVERYONE does then this kind of research may not be sufficient but "grounded theory", for example, simply demands that the researcher "codes" the raw data as themes that emerge FROM the data and continues to organize the data into those emergent themes in ways that saturate the themes with data, until there are no data left outside of any theme and and all the data that is assigned to a theme covers that theme completely. (Surveys begin (and largely end) with ideas that are not emergent from the data themselves but come from external sources (what someone thinks they know or what someone wants to find out and so asks, whether or not those questions are anything that the respondents have ever thought about as they go about their daily lives) but as an anthropologist, REDRUM would be very aware of all this.


isn't that the very thing that this forum is all about, understanding our interactions, styles so on so forth, as BernardSmith said i neither for see any problems, although i do wonder why Mr. Skinner, has limited his breath and girth of his research by using grapes only, after all in history the diversity of areas, experiences levels, styles and ancient knowledge by using grapes only limits your research to Europe, there was meads, country wines, rice wines all depending on he reagans of our planet,,,,
Dawg


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 22, 2020)

Survey complete


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## BernardSmith (Apr 22, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> isn't that the very thing that this forum is all about, understanding our interactions, styles so on so forth, as BernardSmith said i neither for see any problems, although i do wonder why Mr. Skinner, has limited his breath and girth of his research by using grapes only, after all in history the diversity of areas, experiences levels, styles and ancient knowledge by using grapes only limits your research to Europe, there was meads, country wines, rice wines all depending on he reagans of our planet,,,,
> Dawg



But research questions are research questions. You can certainly ask why someone might ask only about X and not about Y but asking about X (all other things equal) provides answers about X that might not otherwise be known. If someone (including Mr Skinner) is interested in asking about other kinds of wine making and drinking those questions can be asked in another survey or using another means of obtaining data (for example, as I had remarked, and putting aside any questions of ethics and research) the posts on this forum are open for anyone who has access to the forum to view, download, code, and analyze in any way one might want - from looking at arguments that erupt to looking at lengths of sentences , to the sorts of issues self -identifying novices bring, to looking at how expertise is performed (a sociological term); to how and whether a sense of community is demonstrated (or not) within the forum... all kinds of questions there for the "asking" and if one is simply searching through thousands of threads and posts no one would be any the wiser (again, putting aside all questions of ethics - and there could be questions of ethics within different disciplines if someone combed through posts without informing members of the forum...


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## hounddawg (Apr 22, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> But research questions are research questions. You can certainly ask why someone might ask only about X and not about Y but asking about X (all other things equal) provides answers about X that might not otherwise be known. If someone (including Mr Skinner) is interested in asking about other kinds of wine making and drinking those questions can be asked in another survey or using another means of obtaining data (for example, as I had remarked, and putting aside any questions of ethics and research) the posts on this forum are open for anyone who has access to the forum to view, download, code, and analyze in any way one might want - from looking at arguments that erupt to looking at lengths of sentences , to the sorts of issues self -identifying novices bring, to looking at how expertise is performed (a sociological term); to how and whether a sense of community is demonstrated (or not) within the forum... all kinds of questions there for the "asking" and if one is simply searching through thousands of threads and posts no one would be any the wiser (again, putting aside all questions of ethics - and there could be questions of ethics within different disciplines if someone combed through posts without informing members of the forum...


oh whow, maybe i worded it wrong, i read where he wanted info on differences, why's, different cultures/styles,how recipes got handed down , interactions and so forth, i was in no way complaining, 
Dawg


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## rustbucket (May 11, 2020)

I just submitted my survey response. Not sure of the response time frame, but hopefully, it's not late.


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## REDRUM (May 12, 2020)

Thanks Rustbucket! The survey is definitely still open.


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## winemaker81 (May 13, 2020)

@REDRUM -- What is your end date? It might be helpful to put that on your survey page so folks know there is an end date, plus post it here (and other places you've posted) to produce a sense of urgency.


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## REDRUM (May 15, 2020)

Good point. At this stage I'm keeping the survey open til the end of July.
CLICK HERE to complete the survey if you have not done so yet!


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## Steve Wargo (May 15, 2020)

Send the survey. I'll respond


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## Johnd (May 15, 2020)

Steve Wargo said:


> Send the survey. I'll respond


Look at post #70.......


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## Steve Wargo (May 18, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Look at post #70.......


Completed survey hope it helps


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## Cellar Vader (Aug 2, 2020)

Through July? ”Missed it by THIS much.”
Well I just now submitted in case it can be helpful.


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## DizzyIzzy (Aug 3, 2020)

I didn't know there was a deadline. Just completed the survey today...............oops!!..............Dizzy


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## johnnash (Aug 3, 2020)

Sure!


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## REDRUM (Aug 4, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> I didn't know there was a deadline. Just completed the survey today...............oops!!..............Dizzy


I haven't closed it off yet ... the more the merrier! 
Before too long I'll provide some of the raw findings here.


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## dralarms (Aug 4, 2020)

Not sure how I missed this but I’m in also. Just completed the survey.


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## REDRUM (Nov 23, 2021)

Hi gang,
Some of my research into home winemaking has been published in _Ethnologie francaise_ - *"Making homemade wine, online". *The link is below but you probably won't be able to access it unless you have university login credentials- if you are interested, you can message me here or email me at bill.skinner[at]adelaide.edu.au and I can send you a pdf version.

Thanks to everyone who participated in my survey! The article draws from data from here and other winemaking forums and deals with the notion that amateur winemaking is an example of a 'serious leisure' pursuit, and that online forums like WMT exist as 'communities of practice' that develop their own cultures. I will say that this site represents a welcoming online space, where beginners and experts interact - a true community in that sense!

Cheers everyone 


https://doi.org/10.3917/ethn.213.0577

Article abstract
"This article examines the ways in which amateur home winemakers interact online, on specialist internet forums and social media platforms. It explores peoples’ motivations for making wine as a serious leisure pursuit, using concepts of techne, technoscience and tradition to analyse the different ways in which knowledge is generated and transferred in this field. Online winemaking communities develop their own internalised cultures, providing a realm within which certain types of knowledge are generated and shared."


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## sour_grapes (Nov 23, 2021)

Nice!

There is a problem with your link above. I believe you meant to use this: https://doi.org/10.3917/ethn.213.0577


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## REDRUM (Nov 23, 2021)

Thanks SG! Fixed


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