# Our first Wine show....



## Hokapsig (Jan 26, 2016)

Well, this past Sunday we did our first wine show. The show was at the Convention center in downtown Pittsburgh and was featured as a "Women and Wine" show. The promoters told us that they had presold 8000 tickets and that there would be 14 wineries and about 70 other vendors catering to women.

Based on this information, I called other wineries which would be going to this event. I was told (by reputeable winery owners) that, based on this information, we should bring about 100 cases and be prepared to sell out that day. Tempering my exhuberance, we took about 80 cases (sell out early and go home). The event was to run from 11 am to 5 pm.

However, this event was a day before the Nor'easter snow storm that shut down much of the east coast. 4 wineries could not attend as they couldn't get through the snow. I'm thinking, "great, less competition should equate to more sales for us". 

I took along my best, though untested, crew (all heros in my eyes). My wife would run the square for processing sales, my co worker would get bottles ready for the bottle check, ffemt and my son and I would be the pourers. 

We were not prepared for the onslaught of 8000 thirsty women, all which had been promised "unlimited wine sampling". The problem we soon encountered began to add up. The wifi connection would not work, meaning the credit cards would need to be keyed in manually instead of swiping the square (costing more and slowing down the process). We were soon inundated with women 8 deep at our table, all demanding wine tastings with only a few buying. We were told our wines were good, but the expectation was for the women to drink and taste, not to buy. We ended up giving out 8 cases in samples, though we did sell about 15 cases of wine.

Thank goodness for the Angel known as ffemt. He saved the day by offering his truck to transport the 50 cases of unsold wine back to our winery (even after being in the trenches and slinging wine for 6 hours). Remember, we were to sell 100 cases and wouldn't have to transport any wine home. 

Women soon became unruly and surrounded our table and wine supply. We did experience some product shrinkage due to the unruly crowd. For any new wineries getting ready to do thier first show, let me post some of the lessons which we learned the hard way. Other professionals are encouraged to post thier lessons for us newbies too. Trust me, we could use the lessons.....


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## AZMDTed (Jan 26, 2016)

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. Direct sales, in any field, are very very hard and full of emotional ups and downs. At least you tried, and you no doubt learned things that will help you plan your future sales actions. I wish you the best.


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## Hokapsig (Jan 26, 2016)

Lesson 1 - we brought 11 wines to introduce and sample. This was too many. women that wanted to taste all the wines took too long and got confused as to what they tasted and liked. Many had thier free fill and moved on without a purchase. Next time, we will limit our line up to 6 or 7 wines (one dry, 2 sweeter/semi sweet whites, 3 sweet reds/blends).

Lesson 2 - serve only the people in front of you. The women surrounded our table and those on the sides demanded to be served, causing us to rush back and forth and spread the pouring staff out too much. Next time, we only serve those in front of us. Those women on the side will either move to the front or move on. We don't want to sacrifice our gameplan for tasters demanding our attention and spreading us thin.

Lesson 3 - we had one square for processing payments. This was not enough and I have no doubt we lost sales due to not having our equipment work properly (even after testing frequently the night before). We will procure another square for faster processing.

Lesson 4 - more equipment. while trying to provide a positive experience to the tasters, we bagan to empty bottles from the tastings and needed to uncork and put the pouring spouts back in. We soon had multiple bottles opened using up all our spouts. also, we only had two wine openers (one which took a chuck out of my thumb). At least 2 openers with additional openers as a backup. 

Lesson 5 - half pours. Although we are allowed to pour an ounce per tasting, we cut back to half or quarter ounce tastings. We learned that REAL fast....

Lesson 6 - private space. Our wine supply was located behind us, but we didn't have tables to enclose the 2 front tasting tables. The women were almost in our pouring area due to the uncontrolled crowd. the next time, 2 more tables will be taken to enclose our space. No more shrinkage for us.

I'm sure there will be more, but I'll let others impart thier wisdom......


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## Hokapsig (Jan 26, 2016)

AZMDTed said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. Direct sales, in any field, are very very hard and full of emotional ups and downs. At least you tried, and you no doubt learned things that will help you plan your future sales actions. I wish you the best.


 
Thanks Ted, but don't feel sorry for us. We learned, albiet the hard way, about doing a wine festival. If we wouldn't have learned, then you could feel sorry for us. We learned an experience and will be better for it. We don't want to sound whiney, but it was a baptism by fire for sure....

PS. thanks for the good wishes....


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## GreginND (Jan 27, 2016)

Great information. Thanks. Lessons learned are mistakes not repeated.

1. 11 wines! Yes, that is way too many. I will be sticking with no more than 5. This is great advice. 

2./6. - Thanks. I wasn't thinking about this problem of controlling the crowd, space and focus. 

3. I have learned to make sure my cell phone internet sharing is always available in case there is no wifi. I use my phone as a wifi hub. Having more is always good.

5. Yes - not possible to provide full pours for that many people. Did the event provide glasses for the ladies? If so, you don't have much control over their glass size. If you are providing tasting cups - I have found that using those small plastic shot glasses rather than a larger cup to help limit oversampling. That and those simple plastic slow pourers work well.


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## JohnT (Jan 27, 2016)

I have worked some events like this for my buddy's micro brewery. 

One thing we did was to structure the fences and barricades so that a single file line forms. Once a person reaches the front of the line an usher can then direct that person to one of five "tasting stations". As soon as that "tasting station" frees up, the next person in line is directed there. This forces the crowd away from your tasting tables.

When you say "shrinkage", are you saying that there was out-and-out theft of your wine? If so, what kind of women were these people????


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## Hokapsig (Jan 27, 2016)

Although the inventory is not done yet, we did experience the theft of some wine. I like the idea of a que line and we may try to do that.

We supplied the 1 ounce shot glasses and only filled them half way. The next two shows supply tasting glasses.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 27, 2016)

You cannot control or stage lines at most wine events. You have to work around that. Having one person that does nothing but opens bottles and returns empties back to the cases helps a lot to keep things running smoothly. Keep the empties so you know what you sold and what you sampled. A large cooler with dry ice is beneficial for keeping sweet wines cold until opened. I personally don't enjoy working wine festivals (drunkfest) compared to working a tasting room. A festival people are there to drink in the tasting room they are there to taste and hear your story. With that said, some festivals are very profitable.


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## Chanel1975 (Jan 28, 2016)

Runningwolf said:


> You cannot control or stage lines at most wine events. You have to work around that. Having one person that does nothing but opens bottles and returns empties back to the cases helps a lot to keep things running smoothly. Keep the empties so you know what you sold and what you sampled. A large cooler with dry ice is beneficial for keeping sweet wines cold until opened. I personally don't enjoy working wine festivals (drunkfest) compared to working a tasting room. A festival people are there to drink in the tasting room they are there to taste and hear your story. With that said, some festivals are very profitable.



Runningwolf, you write that there are many interesting exhibitions, can give some examples?
thanks Chanel


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## Runningwolf (Jan 28, 2016)

Chanel I don't see where I said there are many exhibitions. But with that said in the area that Bill and I live in there are wine tasting events throughout the year. You just have to pick and choose which one fits your winery best. Some may be too far away to see return customers or too big that you would not be able to keep up. There are fantastic events for every winery in this state. With you being in Italy I'm not sure what you have available.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 29, 2016)

Sorry to hear it didn't go as planned. 

Many of the winery owners I've talked to either don't do festivals, or only go because they feel they need the exposure. As Dan mentioned, it's usually a ton of people looking to get as much as they can for the price of admission and the crowds are huge. I know that's exactly why I avoid them.  I'd prefer to have the time to talk with the owner/winemaker/pourer to learn more about what I'm drinking.


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## Floandgary (Jan 29, 2016)

Congrats Bill! At least you didn't title it "Our last Wine show"!! Working with crowds is tough enough,, a mob is a nightmare. Enjoyed your samples and hope to get over your way soon..


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## Hokapsig (Feb 15, 2016)

Wine show #2 was MUCH BETTER. With 1200 tickets sold, the crowds were steady and much better behaved. We sold about 17 cases and only used up 4 cases for tasting. We limited our selection to 7 wines and I am learning what to say in order to sell the wines. The crowds allowed time to do some small chit chat with the customers and we got very good feedback about our wines and sales presentations. We used 2 side tables for the sales and an extra square allowed us to process and move customers faster. We only served people in front of us which pulled the customers from the side to the front and kept the sales areas clear. One unfortunate item was when I loaded the van on Sunday morning, it was 4 degrees below zero, which caused some of the wines to produce diamonds (we cold stabilze, but not down to minus 4). The slow pour filters we used took care of the diamonds when pouring (we highly recommend these). the promoter gave us the internet password and our squares worked flawlessly. I have to get some table lifters for the testing tables as bending over for 6 hours can be a pain on the back. We also got some table coverings that almost matched our burgundy sign spot on. we looked more professional and it showed on our sales and feedback. We will be selling at our alma mater this weekend, with less tickets sold. We will take 20 cases and leave when we sell out.


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## ffemt128 (Feb 16, 2016)

Hokapsig said:


> Wine show #2 was MUCH BETTER. With 1200 tickets sold, the crowds were steady and much better behaved. We sold about 17 cases and only used up 4 cases for tasting. We limited our selection to 7 wines and I am learning what to say in order to sell the wines. The crowds allowed time to do some small chit chat with the customers and we got very good feedback about our wines and sales presentations. We used 2 side tables for the sales and an extra square allowed us to process and move customers faster. We only served people in front of us which pulled the customers from the side to the front and kept the sales areas clear. One unfortunate item was when I loaded the van on Sunday morning, it was 4 degrees below zero, which caused some of the wines to produce diamonds (we cold stabilze, but not down to minus 4). The slow pour filters we used took care of the diamonds when pouring (we highly recommend these). the promoter gave us the internet password and our squares worked flawlessly. I have to get some table lifters for the testing tables as bending over for 6 hours can be a pain on the back. We also got some table coverings that almost matched our burgundy sign spot on. we looked more professional and it showed on our sales and feedback. We will be selling at our alma mater this weekend, with less tickets sold. We will take 20 cases and leave when we sell out.


 

Good deal and take 30.


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## JohnT (Feb 16, 2016)

glad things worked better this time.
Do you have any pictures you can post? I'd love to see them.


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## Hokapsig (Feb 16, 2016)

Here's my wife, me and my son at our first show, before the mayhem hit....


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## JohnT (Feb 16, 2016)

That is just so darn coooool!


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## Hokapsig (Feb 16, 2016)

I'll have to get a new updated photo this weekend. We've changed some things as we've learned how to play the game.....


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## Hokapsig (Nov 11, 2016)

well, after our first year of a license, we can look back and reflect. 

We have done WAY more than I had ever imagined and have had our wines well received. We have benefited from immeasureable help from ffemt (Doug), Julie, and of course my family, some college friends as well as some of the other wineries who took us under their wing and helped us along (George from Juniata Winery). Even my wife, who was VERY skeptical, has now quit her job to work at the winery full time. It is definitely fun working with friends and family.

Another big thing to do is ALWAYS keep your tanks full. We are looking in every nook and cranny in the winery to find bottles to sell. This weekend will be our last show for almost a month, which should give us time to get our tanks bottled, refilled and bottled and refilled again. Thank goodness for young wine.

We will be expanding our production by purchasing some extra stainless VC tanks. The winery has generated some cash so we can purchase some extra equipment and begin to pay back the family checking account that had been fronting the cash to operate the business. I am seeking an experienced CPA to do our taxes as I have reached the level of my incompetence when doing taxes.

All in all, it has been a great learning experience and we seek to go into 2017 in a much stronger and wiser position.....


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## JohnT (Nov 17, 2016)

Thanks so much for all of your posts! I am sure that I am not the only one living vicariously through you. 

I wish you all the success in the world! Congrats on a successful year and may each year exceed the last!


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## Hokapsig (Feb 15, 2017)

well, 2017 has started and we have done 5 wine shows and 2 fundraisers. We have past the halfway point of money made in 2016 after just 6 weeks. We are still learning and selling.

We learned that sweet wines sell 10 to 1 over dry wines, though there are areas/shows that are almost all dry wine drinkers. We learned to take a dry wine and make it a sweet wine and were able to sell to both sweet and dry drinkers. We also took carboys of wines sitting around since our hobby days of home winemaking and blended them together to make another wine. After a TTB label approval, those wines have sold out. A blend of Carmenare with Red Zin did very well, and a party wine of Corot Noir, Cab Sauv and Red Zin appeared as "Winemaker's Blend" and sold out too.

Finding time to clean tanks, bench test and bottle is hard to do. We (the wife and I) would spend from 6 to 1130 bottling and cleaning in preparation for weekend shows, only to sell out and have to do it all again the next week, which is a good problem to have. Purchasing the pickup truck has given us some freedom to run for bottles and juice, and we got some magnetic stickers for the truck which makes us look more professional. 

Thanks to Runningwolf for the heads up on equipment which a winery was selling as he was voluntarily going out of business, ffemt for all his counselling, truck use, physical help and wine selling expertise, and Julie for mentoring me along in the early days. More to come.....


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## Hokapsig (Jun 27, 2017)

another 4 months has passed and we have exceeded our sales from all of 2016. Our learning from the first shows has helped us greatly and we are a fine tuned wine selling machine now. We are now able to figure out the amount of cases that we will sell, which saves us from handling the wines twice. We have expanded out for larger quantities of California and South American juices, though these will sit for another year at least before bottling. We can now be more choosy with the shows that we do, but even the shows that we are doing to help a non profit or charity are helping us to sell a bunch of wine. We are learning that we need to seek the counsel of a professional for our taxes, which are far more complex than anyone can figure out.

Equipment wise, we are now reinvesting some profits in bigger tanks and bottling equipment. We are constantly looking for deals. We are also shopping for property in which to put up a building or tasting room. We are gauging our decision on our sales at a local farmer's market. Sales have exceeded our expectations and we have been encouraged to follow our dream of a building/tasting room. We now have financial backing based on our success, though we absolutely hate debt and we try to figure how much wine will need to be sold to make the mortgage payments.

we are also helping to mentor 3 new wineries who are learning from our mistakes and successes. Although only less than 2 years into the process, we have taken the seat of "old winery owner" and love to pass on our wisdom learned from experience to new winery owners. Looking back, we wish we would have done this years ago, but with schools to pay for and a mortgage, this was not possible. In our mid 50's, we are happy to make and sell wine, which beats sitting around watching TV. Let's see what the second half of 2017 has in store for us.


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## GreginND (Jun 27, 2017)

That's awesome. We are also growing - 150 cases in 2015, 450 cases in 2016 and over 900 cases this year. I keep ordering more bigger tanks. Just ordered a new larger destemmer with must pump. Now I just need to figure out how to make some more climate controlled storage for the wine. The stacks of cases in the winery leave no room to do anything. The other problem is our laws. I'm only allowed to do 20 events off site a year and each one must be approved by the state tax commissioner. 17 of those are used up with our local farmers market in the summer. So we can only do 3 events beyond that. 

I did make a mistake this year and forgot to add the sorbate to our sweet red Frontenac wine this year. It would have been our bestseller but we had to uncork 800 bottles. However, we are using it as a base for Sangria which is selling like crazy. And I can take wine right out of the tank for that even while it is still fermenting.


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## Hokapsig (Jun 27, 2017)

Luckily, PA lets me do 100 shows off site, not including farmer's markets. Farmer's markets are ALL covered under one permit which is good for the year. However, my project is to figure out how to drive people to the winery once its built. That asset will have to be working 24/7 to generate the cash flow to make the bills. However, we will probably still do the shows as they generate free cash. 

I only want to work professionally for 4 more years, then transition to the winery. It's something that I like to do and have a passion for. I can't do much stuff right, but selling wine is something that I excel at.


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## ffemt128 (Jun 28, 2017)

Hokapsig said:


> another 4 months has passed and we have exceeded our sales from all of 2016. Our learning from the first shows has helped us greatly and we are a fine tuned wine selling machine now. We are now able to figure out the amount of cases that we will sell, which saves us from handling the wines twice. We have expanded out for larger quantities of California and South American juices, though these will sit for another year at least before bottling. We can now be more choosy with the shows that we do, but even the shows that we are doing to help a non profit or charity are helping us to sell a bunch of wine. We are learning that we need to seek the counsel of a professional for our taxes, which are far more complex than anyone can figure out.
> 
> Equipment wise, we are now reinvesting some profits in bigger tanks and bottling equipment. We are constantly looking for deals. We are also shopping for property in which to put up a building or tasting room. We are gauging our decision on our sales at a local farmer's market. Sales have exceeded our expectations and we have been encouraged to follow our dream of a building/tasting room. We now have financial backing based on our success, though we absolutely hate debt and we try to figure how much wine will need to be sold to make the mortgage payments.
> 
> we are also helping to mentor 3 new wineries who are learning from our mistakes and successes. Although only less than 2 years into the process, we have taken the seat of "old winery owner" and love to pass on our wisdom learned from experience to new winery owners. Looking back, we wish we would have done this years ago, but with schools to pay for and a mortgage, this was not possible. In our mid 50's, we are happy to make and sell wine, which beats sitting around watching TV. Let's see what the second half of 2017 has in store for us.


 

Glad to have been there for the journey thus far. Looking forward to the rest of 2017 and the adventures it will bring.


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## GreginND (Jun 28, 2017)

Hokapsig said:


> However, my project is to figure out how to drive people to the winery once its built. That asset will have to be working 24/7 to generate the cash flow to make the bills. However, we will probably still do the shows as they generate free cash.



We find a lot of traffic coming out to the winery after the farmers market. Mainly because we only take a small sampling of our wines there. We have had great growth due to social media. My wife is vigilant about posting on Facebook several times a day. Word of mouth has been increasing exponentially because we provide an amazingly welcoming experience. We have hardly ever paid for any advertising or marketing.


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## Hokapsig (Dec 23, 2017)

with 2017 all but in the books, we can look back on the year. We came close to tripling our sales. We took a chance and did a local farmer's market. I had told my wife that people usually don't go to farmer's markets to buy wine, but only vegetables and plants. I put a goal to sell $100 a week and the cost to attend the market was $10 per week for 18 weeks. The first week, we missed our goal by selling 7x our goal and we never looked back. Once our wines caught on, we were selling 10 to 15 times our initial weekly goal. People liked our story, liked that we were local and that we attended every week. We learned to vary our wines every other week which kept our line up fresh. However, this created another problem that I didn't foresee - The farmer's market cut into our inventory so much that we ran short of wines at the end of summer. Success has its problems, but those are good problems to overcome. 

We took a chance and did some additional shows. Some were very good and we sold well. Others ere TOTAL busts. Lesson learned that if a show didn't sell tickets and the promoters tell you that people will come without advertising, turn and run away as fast as possible. One show ended up with 12 people at the 5 hour show. Fortunately, we sold to the vendors to cover our costs, but still should have lost money, We also found many shows that didn't cost a lot to attend and sold well at these shows. 

We are currently looking for a tasting room/property to establish a winery as we have outgrown our basement. Supplies storage now force me to park my car outside of the garage. Though we use some 6 gallon carboys for blending purposes, the carboys take up valuable floor space and we will be selling many of those this year. We acquired a heat tunnel for capsuling, 2 more Italian corkers and an additional enolmatic filler, though we are looking for a 4 or 6 spout filler. Our super jet filtering system is being replaced with a twin 20 inch column system to allow us to filter twice at one pass. 

With 2018 looming, we are seeking local property to put in the tasting room. We were offered to rent a church with 5 acres, but for $3500 a month, the cost was too high with little return for equity. We have found several possibilities, the best being 2 old farmhouses with acreage, and one with 22 acres and no improvements, Our bank account is healthy and we can put down an higher than modest down payment. We realize that a property will strap us to make us have to make a mortgage payment, but we feel that our cash flow can more than handle that. We are looking forward to the challenge.....


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## Johnd (Dec 24, 2017)

Wow, that’s quite a story!!!! Congratulations for pursuing your passion and making it work, sounds like you guys are on a wonderful trajectory. Looking forward to seeing pics of the new winery when you make the move.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 24, 2017)

That's just great, Ho. Congrats to you, and may you exceed your goals again in 2018!


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## balatonwine (Dec 26, 2017)

GreginND said:


> vigilant about posting on Facebook several times a day.
> ....
> We have hardly ever paid for any advertising or marketing.



There is no free lunch. You "pay". But simply not in cash.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 3, 2018)

Its been a fun year..


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## JohnT (Jan 8, 2018)

Question: Are there any permits or special hoops you have to jump through to be allowed to sell alcohol at a farmer's market?


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## Hokapsig (Jan 8, 2018)

not in PA, other than paying for a farmer's market permit and adding it to our master state permit. We can sell by the bottle or case, but not by the glass as the farmer's market has no liquor license. At our farmer's market, there was one other winery and 1 to 2 distilleries.


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## Hokapsig (Jun 18, 2018)

with 2018 almost half in the books, we continue to have success. We are currently running at 50% over last years totals in sales. We have sought out more lucrative shows to boost our sales and are now venturing into different wines. We have learned that an all grape line up will limit your sales. Vary your offerings with different tasting wines and you will do well. Different is VERY good. 

We continue to learn the rules of the state. We no longer donate bottles for charity fund raisers as the state considers this participating in gambling which would threaten our license. Although we feel that we should be able to donate to whoever we please, we will abide by the state's rules. Boo, hiss on the state. 

Our search for a tasting room continues. We have been offered very pricey venues, but having to sell 30 cases a month just to make the rent seemed a little steep of a price. We are working on an offer to share a space in a town 45 minutes away, but are continuing to seek a closer location to our winery. People are very proud of their property in our neighborhood, so buying any property will be very pricey, We had an offer to buy 20 acres with an old farmhouse, barn and out buildings, We spoke with the company that had purchased the property (for the gas and oil rights) and wanted to divest the ground, It was going to be a match made in heaven, but at the last minute, the company pulled the plug, We had already had our builder and were moving on financing when the company reneged on their offer, Maybe we were being told that this site isn't in the cards for us.

Out partnering with the local battlefield is paying great dividends, As we named our winery after the local French and Indian war battlefield, we designed themed wines to benefit the battlefield, We donate a dollar per bottle sold of these themed wines to support the battlefield. The first year we donated about $700 which totally surprised the historical society that runs and maintains the battlefield, This year, we were able to give $1700. The battlefield now helps us by promoting our winery, giving us free locations to sell our wines, invites us to all their functions to sell, and supports us by buying the wines. It was well worth doing the background work to name and partner the winery with an organization that is mutually beneficial for both parties,

We have also begun to scale the production by purchasing additional used tanks. We are now selling off our home winemaking equipment to buy more professional equipment, Craigslist is our friend, We continue to be thankful for other wineries which help us with their advice. We look forward to pay it forward and continue to help other winerys. We continue to wonder where we would be if we would have started 5 years earlier, IF you're thinking of testing the waters, do your due diligence and dip your toe into the water, Do a good business plan first as making your mistakes on paper is MUCH cheaper than with your wallet,


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## nkearney (Jun 19, 2018)

Hokapsig said:


> with 2018 almost half in the books, we continue to have success. We are currently running at 50% over last years totals in sales. We have sought out more lucrative shows to boost our sales and are now venturing into different wines. We have learned that an all grape line up will limit your sales. Vary your offerings with different tasting wines and you will do well. Different is VERY good.
> 
> We continue to learn the rules of the state. We no longer donate bottles for charity fund raisers as the state considers this participating in gambling which would threaten our license. Although we feel that we should be able to donate to whoever we please, we will abide by the state's rules. Boo, hiss on the state.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for sharing your journey! It is helping me tremendously!


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## WinoDave (Jun 19, 2018)

Nice read, thank you. I’ve only been into wine making for 2 years now, all kits but I really enjoy it and I think my wine kits taste better than Most store bought wines. I do tweak them a little. Congrats on your success and may it continue.


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## Hokapsig (Feb 26, 2019)

time to update this thread.....

As we now go into our fourth year, the winery has grown. We purchased twelve 300 liter VC tanks from wineries which were closing and now have purchased two 500 and six 600 liter tanks from wineries which are upgrading their tanks. Look for these two types of wineries to increase your capacity. However, this year, we are finding out that even these tanks are too small. We have been doing bigger shows and will do at least 2 farmers markets, so trying to forecast production is becoming an issue. So far this year, we had one show that we totally sold out of 28 cases in 3 hours (they even bought our tasters) and came close to a 70 case sell out at another show. We are beginning to "compete" with the big boys, who have been nothing but helpful to us. As my wife says, we are becoming a "thing". Our problem is that we can't make and bottle wine fast enough.

Our next step is to now purchase some property and put in a tasting room. We wanted to make sure that we had the business to take such a leap, but this appears to be the next step in the process. For the past 4 years we have operated out of the wine cellar (aka the house's basement), keeping our overhead low, staying debt free and learning. Watching the success of ffemt with his tasting room has been a blessing and a learning experience for us and we thank Doug for allowing us insight into his operation. We are moving slow and are finding out about all the costs associated with opening a winery tasting room. Our zoning will work as we will be agri-business, but we must grow grapes on the property (which we will do just to make for ambiance and possibly a You Pick revenue stream). We will still go to the professional vineyards and have juice/grapes come in from Cali for producing our wines. We are still having to purchase some young wines from the vineyards to supplement our production. We don't like to do this, but our success depends on it as we can't produce enough fast enough to satisfy demand. The farm we are looking to purchase is about 28 acres, with 3 barns and 2 houses. The owner didn't want to see her farm become a housing plan and was happy to deal with us. Our initial walk through is today and we have to determine if the soil will perk. All the money we have made and banked from the winery will go just to pay for the septic system. Fortunately, there is other money set aside for the purchase of the property.

My wife has "retired" from the business world and now works for the winery. She pays the taxes, does the books (make sure to get QuickBooks) and runs the farmers markets in the summer. She is also my delivery service, meeting local customers to deliver their wines. We have also trained extra friends which help us at the shows and they are happy to volunteer and work for wine. We have 2 of my son's friends which like our wine and now work for us at the shows and we hope to soon allow them to run either a satellite location or their own shows for us. We have figured out what sells at shows, not only the wines and the choice of wines in the lineup, but also HOW to sell the wines. Customers like the personal connection to the staff and how we talk about the wines. All of our staff is PA RAMP certified. 

We are now branching out to fruit wines and are using the farm over the hill from us for their raspberries and a friend's orchard for our pear wine. Our wines have been very well received and we are always experimenting with "different" wines to be able to sell something that no one else has. We are experimenting with different revenue streams, such as shirts, hoodies and wine glasses. These sold well at Christmas. We are considering a "12 days of Christmas" wine case for sale in the holiday season.

it's been a fun ride, but it is a LOT of work. From driving for juice, bottles and supplies, to prepping for bottling and shows, this endevor takes a lot of your time. Each night after work, I come home, eat dinner and head to the winery until 1030 or 11 or later. Many problems to solve, much wine to make. Here's to a fun 2019.


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## Jal5 (Feb 26, 2019)

Good for you Bill glad to hear that your journey is coming along. 
Joe


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## KevinL (Feb 27, 2019)

Congrats and it's great to hear things are going so well. My little operation is well on it's way. I'm curious to see how we do this year. Having more demand than supply is a good problem to have I'd say.

Good luck this year!


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## danno (Feb 27, 2019)

Congrats on your success - very inspiring!


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## wxtrendsguy (Feb 27, 2019)

Hey welcome to my life Hokapsig except I don't do drunkfests....90% DTC is the way to go...


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## Hokapsig (Apr 19, 2019)

as the 1Q of 2019 draws to a close, we have made the decision to buy property for our winery and tasting room. After 5 years of looking at properties and building our business, we found a nice elderly lady with a 30 acre farm that is too much for her to take care of. A friend who is a neighbor to her notified us that she wanted to sell off 5 acres and we should go and look at the property, As we drove over, the lady was out checking her mail. We stopped and inquired about the 5 acres, to which she said, no, the 5 acres was not for sale, but the 30 acres WAS for sale. We explained our desire to own a winery/tasting room and to stop yet another farm from being turned into a housing plan. We wanted to keep t700he farm, which had been a dairy farm in her youth, as a farm. She quickly warmed to our story and our desire for a winery and to preserve the farm. 

We quickly agreed on a more than fair price, and the farm includes 2 houses, 2 barns and 2 garages. We are now learning about zoning and septic systems. Since the zoning is agricultural, this fit perfectly with a winery, as we would be an ancillary business (using fruit to make wine). HOWEVER, for a winery in our township, the zoning requires that we produce over half of our wine from crops grown on site. I then informed the township that it takes 4 to 5 years to bring in a crop of grapes and that we could not comply with owning a farm with no way to recoup our costs. We were told to request a variance (as whoever wrote these rules had no clue about growing grapes). HOWEVER, it costs $700 and will take 2 months to find out if our request is granted. We are waiting for May so that our hearing can be scheduled. 

However, should we get a favorable variance ruling, then we need to get on the schedule for the planning commission, which will take an additional 2 months. The site plan will cost about $12K. (a lot of money for a non-value add expenditure). We have already completed our soil test inspection (about $1K), the state inspection of the soil passed, and in PA, you need a primary septic area AND a secondary area. We have just completed the perc test and will turn in the results to the township on Monday. The septic system will cost about $80 to $120K, depending on the amount of people we want the system sized to, We initially asked for a system to accommodate 150 people, but if we want to host weddings at the winery, we will need a larger system. In addition, no wine making wastes or cleaning waters can be put down a septic system in PA (a new law in PA). 

Our next hurdle is to seek access from the state highway to our winery. In the meantime, we are looking at which grapes could grow and be successful, as well as berry bushes and fruit trees, We are also looking at metal pole buildings which we can tailor into a tasting room (we want it to look like a barn so as to blend into the farm theme). We have been visiting wineries and asking questions about what is good and what to avoid, Today we spoke with a bee keeper to have him site his bees on the farm which would pollinate our crops and produce some honey. There is ALWAYS a problem that needs solving, 

We are at times VERY frustrated with the system. We will be tapping in to the public water system, however, that will require about 3K in a tap in fee, plus about 500 feet of water line, plus backflow preventor. we still don't know what we don't know.


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## nkearney (Apr 19, 2019)

Hokapsig said:


> as the 1Q of 2019 draws to a close, we have made the decision to buy property for our winery and tasting room. After 5 years of looking at properties and building our business, we found a nice elderly lady with a 30 acre farm that is too much for her to take care of. A friend who is a neighbor to her notified us that she wanted to sell off 5 acres and we should go and look at the property, As we drove over, the lady was out checking her mail. We stopped and inquired about the 5 acres, to which she said, no, the 5 acres was not for sale, but the 30 acres WAS for sale. We explained our desire to own a winery/tasting room and to stop yet another farm from being turned into a housing plan. We wanted to keep t700he farm, which had been a dairy farm in her youth, as a farm. She quickly warmed to our story and our desire for a winery and to preserve the farm.
> 
> We quickly agreed on a more than fair price, and the farm includes 2 houses, 2 barns and 2 garages. We are now learning about zoning and septic systems. Since the zoning is agricultural, this fit perfectly with a winery, as we would be an ancillary business (using fruit to make wine). HOWEVER, for a winery in our township, the zoning requires that we produce over half of our wine from crops grown on site. I then informed the township that it takes 4 to 5 years to bring in a crop of grapes and that we could not comply with owning a farm with no way to recoup our costs. We were told to request a variance (as whoever wrote these rules had no clue about growing grapes). HOWEVER, it costs $700 and will take 2 months to find out if our request is granted. We are waiting for May so that our hearing can be scheduled.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing and giving insight to your journey. Sending positive energy and prayers for successful outcomes!


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## Hokapsig (Apr 19, 2019)

nkearney said:


> Thank you for sharing and giving insight to your journey. Sending positive energy and prayers for successful outcomes!


you have no idea what this means to us, MANY thanks for your positive thoughts.


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## Hokapsig (Apr 19, 2019)

Costs with the winery vary from location to location. I read a report that I googled that said you should budget $650K for a winery. We will be no where close to this, as we would never put our selves out there in that much debt. As I was speaking with the landowner's helper about all the costs, he relayed those sentiments to the landowner. We were very surprised when she lowered the price by $20K and told us to pay her over 5 years interest free. The winery produces enough to pay that total with just the shows that we are doing without any winery tasting room business. We were happy to accept. She must like us and our story.


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## sour_grapes (Apr 20, 2019)

Congrats and best wishes, Ho. Living the dream! (Even if that is sometimes downright scary!) Best of luck seeing your vision coming to fruition.


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## Hokapsig (Apr 20, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> Congrats and best wishes, Ho. Living the dream! (Even if that is sometimes downright scary!) Best of luck seeing your vision coming to fruition.


very many thanks!!!


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## KevinL (Apr 20, 2019)

I hear you with the zoning issues and having to deal with the plan commission. Everyone was helpful in getting things through the red tape, which was great. But at the end of the day I don't think a lot of it was necessary. It cost way more than I was anticipating as well. Fortunately we were able to handle the costs. Congratulations on finding the land that is going to enable you to continue to grow your business!

As an aside, I couldn't tell you how much of an inspiration viewing your story on here has been in my own journey. I think I mentioned it, but my wife and I opened our own little venture last fall after 3 years of planning and research. It was good to see and hear from you that it could be done successfully.


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## Jal5 (Apr 20, 2019)

Congrats my friend that is a great report on your progress. We are definitely enjoying the floor corker!

Joe


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## Hokapsig (Apr 21, 2019)

Many thanks guys/ It's an awful lot of work to keep up with just doing shows and farmer's markets. Having a full winery is going to require a lot more time that is in short supply right now. And bigger equipment and more juice and bottles, And the churn continues.....


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## ibglowin (Apr 21, 2019)

Fantastic news! Congratulations and looking forward to watching you and your winery grow.


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## Hokapsig (Apr 22, 2019)

wxtrendsguy said:


> Hey welcome to my life Hokapsig except I don't do drunkfests....90% DTC is the way to go...


we don't like the drunk fests, and we have learned that to shut off the tastings with 20 minutes left in the show. People just looking for more to drink and they aren't buying. We had a lady throw a snit in the last 15 minutes of a 4 hour show that only had 8 wineries. She wanted to taste before her "purchase" but where was she the previous 3 and a half hours?

Besides, we are all RAMP certified, so if you're acting like a VIP (very intoxicated person), you're not gonna be happy with our table.


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## Hokapsig (Jun 25, 2019)

an update.....

We received a favorable variance request, though we now have some stipulations. First, we don't have to grow 51% of what we sell. We DO have grow grapes and berrys and we must incorporate some of those fruits into our wines. There is no percentage required or requirement for us to prove the addition. We will attempt to grow grapes and berries, just for the sake of ambiance to our winery. We must also close at 9 pm or at sundown, whichever is later. We don't have a problem with this as we don't want to live at the winery, but this may pose a future problem should we want to host weddings. Although we WILL close, we don't have force patrons out of the establishment. We don't want to become a bad neighbor, but we do want to maximize our business.

We met with an architect and structural engineer today and had a pest inspection. The termite inspection did show evidence of previous termites, but the barn is in very good shape for being at least 100 years old. Being that it hasn't fallen in yet is a good sign. We will write down the cost of renovating the barn versus putting up a new pole building. Which ever is the prudent and feasible route is the one we will pursue. 

We now move on to the planning commission phase where we need to get specific for the site layout. Another $15K spent with no value add. Fortunately, sales and revenue continue to climb as we are 48% ahead of last years sales. We will apply in July to get on the docet for the August meeting and will expect an answer at the September meeting. Assuming a favorable Planning commission decision, we will then begin construction with a target of opening in the spring of 2020. There are always unforeseen costs which arise that we would have no clue to plan for these costs. We plan to cash flow this ourselves as much as possible without touching retirement funds. The winery can cash flow the land purchase. 

This continues to be a big learning process for us. We have had offers from friends to help us to succeed. Our customers are ready and willing to support us. Progress is painfully slow, but as long as we move forward, its a win.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 25, 2019)

I realize the waters are still treacherous, but it is so nice to see one of out hobby-to-commercial aspirants giving it such a good go! Godspeed, Don Ho!


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## peterseng (Jun 26, 2019)

Thank you so much for sharing your journey, Hokapsig! I am learning so much about what I might expect on my own journey, which (tho similar to yours) is really just beginning... 
Congratulations on your progress, even if it is expensive and probably slower than you'd like. You are still moving toward your dream and that is to be commended!


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## Hokapsig (Jun 28, 2019)

Just have to remember that although it is a passion, its still just business. My ultimate plan is to get the 30 acres planted (not all 30 as we have 2 houses, 2 garages, 2 barns and hopefully a wine tasting room and event center). With the event center doing weddings, the winery being the winery, and renting the space out when the winery is closed, we can still maximize our profits. Once it's up and successful, I'd like to exit by selling the entire business and move to NC. Although my son enjoys the wine shows and helping in the winery, its not his passion as of yet. Cashing out on top sounds like a smart move. I know that I could replicate what we've learned and done in NC and be successful. 

Thanks guys for all the positive thoughts. They are very much appreciated.


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## KevinL (Jul 6, 2019)

The Plan Commission. That whole process is where I spent the most red tape money. I'm happy it is out of the way. Have you settled on the varieties you plan on planting? Will you be managing those or hiring help to take care of them? 

It's encouraging to read your story and follow along with it. Keep up the great work!


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## Greg Teegarden (Jul 6, 2019)

What’s the Facebook page named your wife maintains? 

Great story!


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## Hokapsig (Jul 6, 2019)

trying to research the grapes to plant, though Concord may be the initial answer, along with the berry plants. We have to incorporate the crop into our wines and we can use some of the concord to do that, along with the berries. 

Greg, check us out on Bushy Run Winery on Facebook. My wife just answers the questions we get on Facebook, as well as cleaning up my posts about the winery.


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## wxtrendsguy (Jul 17, 2019)

Hokapsig said:


> trying to research the grapes to plant, though Concord may be the initial answer, along with the berry plants. We have to incorporate the crop into our wines and we can use some of the concord to do that, along with the berries..



Based on your location in southwestern PA and being a meteorologist I can assure you that hybrids and native labrusca should be your dominant plantings...I'd be very leery of planting vinifera other than maybe Riesling in your region of Penn's Woods....its just too cold there. You might be interested in Crimson Cabernet which I think would do well and is very cold hardy. I would plan a vineyard there based on a regular winter low temperature of -10F with the once in a while drop to -15F which rules out most vinifera.


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## Hokapsig (Jul 21, 2019)

chatting with another grape grower last evening, probably Concord, Traminette, and some Midwest grapes like Prairie Star, Brianna, or St. Pepin. Everything stopped by a neighbor that doesn't want a winery, but would rather have a Section 8 housing plan. Go figure....


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## wxtrendsguy (Jul 21, 2019)

Sorry to hear that, I got a neighbor like that except I was here first, but he is still a major PITA. He wanted to play hardball so I point blank told him to his face that if the vineyard and winery are not financially feasible I will more than happily sub divide the land and put some of the largest and ugliest houses he has ever seen in his backyard. Been quiet for a year now. Guess he doesn't mind a vineyard so much.


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## KevinL (Jul 22, 2019)

It'd be really nice if the conversation ended after: "Is it your land? No? Okay, have a nice day then."

I'd check out some of the newer Minnesota Varieties. I've been pretty pleased with my Itasca and Petite Pearl thus far.


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## Hokapsig (Dec 25, 2019)

as we reflect back on our year, we have had our fair share of success and frustration. 

Our sales continue to climb and we are up another 48% year over year. We have moved to bigger shows, and we liked making a LOT for a one day show (which would have been more, but we ran out of wine). People are still viewing our wines favorably and we continue to try new blends to keep our line up fresh. We are learning more about economies of scale and have hit maximum density of producing in our "wine cellar". 

Our attempt to purchase the 30 acre farm has been at a stand still due to the neighbor filing the lawsuit to challenge the variance. He has deep pockets and continues to delay the process, which we know will eventually go our way, but is delaying our actions until this is settled. We have heard that he intends to fight us the entire way. In the meantime, the seller of the property has changed her terms from a 5 year, no interest payment, to a full payment up front. The costs for a new building were viscously under estimated. A friend put up a pole building for $100K, but we were told ours would cost 8 times that amount. PA now has a law that requires no liquid waste from a winery, brewery or distillery can be put down a septic system. This has proven to be a stumbling block which will require some thinking to solve. We are now seeking alternative locations.

We also have considered a store front/retail location to get us over the hump of people wanting to purchase wine. Although this would provide a stop gap to sell our wine, this has not been received well by our customers who are asking for a location to come and purchase/drink wine. we now have alternative locations for a winery, each having positives and negatives. Our county has started a Pour Tour to promote wineries, breweries and distilleries. We are called daily asking for our hours, which we had hoped to have in the spring. Needless to say, tough decisions and much thought will have to be made (along with writing some big checks). 

We continue to seek additional wines to add to our line up. We have rotated our wines from spring and summer to fall and winter wines. This allows us to temporarily retire some wines and stock up on them in the off season, then bring them back in season as a newer wine. Our dry red blend that used to take 2 years to sell out a batch is now selling out in 3 months. We have increased our tank sizes and our bottling equipment. Space continues to be at a premium. 

we now have an operation website, though we are not taking orders from the site. Our site is in its infancy and needs to be further developed. 

We expanded this year to 2 farmer's markets. Our sales increased dramatically, causing some issues in production (resulting in some long nights to be ready for those markets). We are seeking a third market for 2020. These farmers markets have done wonders on our cash flow. 

Our bank account is healthy, and the winery is self supporting. We have been able to pay ourselves back all the seed money which was used to start the winery, along with any money used along the way. The winery has purchased 2 pickup trucks (paid for in cash) and we continue to flow more to our bottom line. It has taken 5 years, but the winery is totally debt free, running on its own merits and is ripe for expansion.


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## crushday (Dec 26, 2019)

Bravo! Keep it up!!


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## KevinL (Dec 26, 2019)

Hokapsig said:


> Our bank account is healthy, and the winery is self supporting. We have been able to pay ourselves back all the seed money which was used to start the winery, along with any money used along the way. The winery has purchased 2 pickup trucks (paid for in cash) and we continue to flow more to our bottom line. It has taken 5 years, but the winery is totally debt free, running on its own merits and is ripe for expansion.



Congratulations! This is an amazing story to follow.

It's a shame that the neighbor of the property insists on being such a pain. Why doesn't he just buy it himself? Good luck in your search. Although I hate to award a NIMBY a win, what is better for the business is more important than winning a legal scuffle. Hopefully you can find a place or resolve the issues and keep going!


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## ibglowin (Dec 26, 2019)

You are absolutely ruining the whole winemakers joke about how do you make $1,000,000 selling wine! But seriously congrats to you and your family. Hard work pays off.


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## montanarick (Dec 26, 2019)

best of luck. btw - what's your website?


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## Hokapsig (Dec 26, 2019)

bushyrunwinery.com, but it needs a LOT of work


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## Hokapsig (Dec 26, 2019)

ibglowin said:


> You are absolutely ruining the whole winemakers joke about how do you make $1,000,000 selling wine! But seriously congrats to you and your family. Hard work pays off.



ffemt, is killing it too. He's got a storefront that we drool about.


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## montanarick (Dec 26, 2019)

Hokapsig said:


> bushyrunwinery.com, but it needs a LOT of work


I can understand that - but at least it's a start and it does take a lot of work. you do have a nice variety of wines available and that's whats important - the website will come together in due time


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## ffemt128 (Dec 30, 2019)

Its been a labor of love, that's for sure.


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## Jal5 (Jan 1, 2020)

Wishing you a successful 2020 despite the hurdles you have yet to overcome. Keep up the good work!
Joe


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## Hokapsig (Jan 2, 2020)

Jal5 said:


> Wishing you a successful 2020 despite the hurdles you have yet to overcome. Keep up the good work!
> Joe



Appreciate the positive thoughts Joe.


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## Allan Kyle (Jan 3, 2020)

Not commercial yet, but at the shows I have been to many places will ask you to fill in your name/address/email/etc. as you queue for wine tasting. This weeds out those just looking for a quick free drink and helps speed any sales/build a list of potential customers.


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## Hokapsig (Jan 18, 2020)

Allan, if they are making you fill out information, that's probably the promoter. When we do shows, we are balls to the wall trying to make a good experience for our customers who want to just taste and buy the wines. We don't have time to ask for such info, though if you'd go to a wine tasting room, they might ask you complete something to get you on their email listing. But don't be fooled by the tasting room experience, That's the fun part when you actually get paid for all work behind the scenes (and it's a LOT of work to get wines ready for a show - A LOT OF WORK). We just got done with a 4 hour show and we are physically beat.


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## Hokapsig (Mar 24, 2020)

well, an update.....

After a very positive start to 2020. sales were up another 45 to 50% from the previous first 2 months of 2019. Things were looking up. Shows that yielded almost the same as the year before had better profit as we were able to cost out some overhead and increase our take home profit. 

THEN, the virus hit, cancelling at least 2 large lucrative shows and 2 smaller shows. even with all these cancellations, we are only 10% behind last years total. 

We have walked away from the local farm, as the zoning officer told us the neighbor that was causing us the problems was prepared to use his considerable bank roll to prevent us from locating a winery at the farm we were to buy. Terms with the seller also changed, as she wanted to stay on site and then call all the shots of what we should do to "her" farm (even after we paid to make it OUR farm). On to plan B or C.

Plan B is another location in our township, properly zoned and already has public water. This was a farm which was purchased by the gas company for the mineral rights. We are interested in a log cabin which was rented by the gas company to some previous tenants. there is also a 4500 square foot barn which we would like to turn into a wedding center/reception center. We would gut the log cabin to make this our tasting room, so that we could operate the winery while still hosting a wedding at the same time. we have asked to lease or purchase at least 10 up to 20 acres where we could plant grapes, berry bushes and a small orchard. The site would still need a septic system (cost about $80 to 100K) to be installed until public sewage is installed. The site has no direct neighbors, so the fussy neighbors aren't a problem. The township asked us to consider this area, as they would like to develop this area as the business corridor (we would still keep it as agri-tourism). We are currently waiting on the gas company to make a decision as to either lease or sell to us. They have a gas well pad on the other end of the property, so they can't rezone to residential. we are hoping that this goes through sometimes this year.

Plan C is another 38 acre farm right on a major highway, accessible with a traffic light. The site has 2 barns that will need work and a mobile home that will be removed. the site has no public water or sewage, both of which will require $$ to remedy. the site used to be a miniature golf course and golf driving range and has a slight slope. there are 4 gas wells on site (hopefully we can get some free gas) and a pond. There is one neighbor, but they are located a little further away. A local festival in the fall right up the road brings in 5,000 people over a weekend and would undoubtedly stop at the winery. The farm has been on the market for a while and we could probably negotiate a lower price than what is listed. Building a 3000 square foot building would be about $100K, but we would have to install a septic system and a water well too. 

we have standardized our line up and have wines that sell well and people tend to come back as repeat buyers. We have learned to sell our wines, which is as important as making a good wine. We are looking to try some different flavors this year. We will let you know how that comes out.....


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## sour_grapes (Mar 24, 2020)

Thanks for the report, Don. I am happy for you that you have what seem to be viable options. (But sorry about the viral downturn!) Best of luck in your next step!


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## wxtrendsguy (Mar 26, 2020)

Don't forget about a place to make the wine...and store bottle inventory. You will need 3000 sq ft just for that. Trust me moving stuff in and out of the winery for every event that needs heated or cooled space gets real old real quick.


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## Hokapsig (Mar 26, 2020)

oh we are learning about economies of scale the hard way. We try to only handle the cases once (take them out of the winery for selling and not having to return them to inventory). We have it down pretty good now for the most part. We figure out how many wineries will be present, expected attendance, location of the show and can usually guess about how many cases to take and what we want to make in revenue for the show. On our local shows, we take 28 to 30 cases, use 1 to 1.5 cases in tasters, sell 20 (usually plus but sometimes minus), bring back less than 6 (plus or minus) partial cases. Go back to the winery and figure out what to bottle that week to replace inventory.


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## Hokapsig (Jun 16, 2020)

well, we have made it through Covid, actually better than worse, Our governor decided to shut down all businesses that were not deemed essential. Lucky for us, wineries were determined to be essential and when the state shut down the state run liquor stores, we had a captive audience. We started a "survival kit" which was a 3 bottle box of wine with a nice hand made card that my wife loves to make. We advertised on social media. Sales zoomed. We decided that when we had someone order a case from us, we would deliver for free and we announced the delivery to that area on Facebook and advised anyone else to order wine in that area that we would also deliver for free. We were filling the back seat of the pickup and the bed with cases of wine for delivery. Doing that allowed us to move our inventory and get us out of the house. 

With Covid waning, we have now retreated back to our 2 farmer's markets, however, the state is not letting us provide tasting samples yet. We solved that problem by providing a sheet with tasting notes of the wine. People which were leery at first bought one bottle, only to return the following week and buy anywhere from 3 to a case. My wife promoted the fact that the customers were able to talk to the winemaker (i was able to steer them to the wines by chatting with them). People seem to like that, Our bottom line flourished by selling wines without the tasters affecting the bottom line, allowing us to drive more profit to the bottom line by cutting expenses. With the extra time from not doing day long wine festivals, we have been able to concentrate on making and testing new wines and catching up on bottling some dry reds which had been sitting for 4 or more years. People seem to like the aged reds as they sold well,

Although we have had 2 events schedule to return later this year, we had written off this year and were ready to declare a loss in the revenue column, but as of this post, we are 3K ahead of last years pace even with the most lucrative wine festivals cancelling, We have taken the time to learn how to REALLY sell our wines. This is paying very nice dividends. 

We gambled our funds set aside in the winery account that will be used for buying property in the stock market, betting that the economy would come back strong when COVID subsided, We timed the market almost correctly and will use that gain to offset any losses from the loss of wine shows. We have done well so far. That money will be returned to the winery fund when we decide to sell our stocks, We have also invested in a used 4 spout bottling machine which was being sold by another winery that was upgrading. This has recently arrived and we are learning about it prior to committing to a bottling run. It feels good to be upgrading the winery assets, 

We feel we benefitted by sticking to our principals of keeping our overhead low, staying debt free, changing our wine line up to meet the seasons and listening to our customers. Our business continues to be healthy as we emerge from the COVID shadow.


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## vineyarddog (Jun 16, 2020)

I’m not far from you and would like to support your business. Where can I buy your wine? Are you selling at the winery?


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## sour_grapes (Jun 16, 2020)

Hokapsig said:


> well, we have made it through Covid, actually better than worse, Our governor decided to shut down all businesses that were not deemed essential. Lucky for us, wineries were determined to be essential and when the state shut down the state run liquor stores, we had a captive audience. We started a "survival kit" which was a 3 bottle box of wine with a nice hand made card that my wife loves to make. We advertised on social media. Sales zoomed. We decided that when we had someone order a case from us, we would deliver for free and we announced the delivery to that area on Facebook and advised anyone else to order wine in that area that we would also deliver for free. We were filling the back seat of the pickup and the bed with cases of wine for delivery. Doing that allowed us to move our inventory and get us out of the house.
> 
> With Covid waning, we have now retreated back to our 2 farmer's markets, however, the state is not letting us provide tasting samples yet. We solved that problem by providing a sheet with tasting notes of the wine. People which were leery at first bought one bottle, only to return the following week and buy anywhere from 3 to a case. My wife promoted the fact that the customers were able to talk to the winemaker (i was able to steer them to the wines by chatting with them). People seem to like that, Our bottom line flourished by selling wines without the tasters affecting the bottom line, allowing us to drive more profit to the bottom line by cutting expenses. With the extra time from not doing day long wine festivals, we have been able to concentrate on making and testing new wines and catching up on bottling some dry reds which had been sitting for 4 or more years. People seem to like the aged reds as they sold well,
> 
> ...



So great to hear, Ho. That tale is inspiring.


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## Hokapsig (Jun 17, 2020)

vineyarddog said:


> I’m not far from you and would like to support your business. Where can I buy your wine? Are you selling at the winery?


We sell at the Murrysville Farmers Market on Sardis Road from 3 to 7 on Thursdays and the Monroeville Lions Farmers Market on Saturdays from 9 to noon. Stop by.


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## WinoDave (Jun 17, 2020)

Hokapsig said:


> We sell at the Murrysville Farmers Market on Sardis Road from 3 to 7 on Thursdays and the Monroeville Lions Farmers Market on Saturdays from 9 to noon. Stop by.



awesome to hear a success story, wish you all continued success.


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## Jal5 (Jun 19, 2020)

Glad to hear you are doing so well!
Joe


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## Hokapsig (Jun 24, 2020)

well, the energy company shot us down too. At this time, they will neither lease nor sell the property. So its on to plan C, which is to rent a building in an industrial park (not my idea of a winery location), but the location does have gas, electric, water and reduces our barrier to entry. We may have to sign a 3 to 5 year lease, but this allows me to walk away from the business after the term of the lease and we don't have to front the money to get started. We will incur a monthly rent fee, but we will be able to easily cover that cost. A local wing and pizza place is willing to rent the other half of the building and we can share a middle section with tables for guests. We will still keep our ears open for property.


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## scruff_farrier (Jul 16, 2020)

Hokapsig said:


> well, the energy company shot us down too. At this time, they will neither lease nor sell the property. So its on to plan C, which is to rent a building in an industrial park (not my idea of a winery location), but the location does have gas, electric, water and reduces our barrier to entry. We may have to sign a 3 to 5 year lease, but this allows me to walk away from the business after the term of the lease and we don't have to front the money to get started. We will incur a monthly rent fee, but we will be able to easily cover that cost. A local wing and pizza place is willing to rent the other half of the building and we can share a middle section with tables for guests. We will still keep our ears open for property.


 
After reading a few of your posts and this one over the last few months. I started putting two and two together I realized I've met you in person at a few different craft fairs/wine shows. My girlfriend is in love with a a few of your wines. I remember her saying she saw on social media about the survival kits, that was such a good idea to coordinate and have the pop up locations too. I can't wait for you to get a location, she will be thrilled to hear. It's is awesome to know you guys are doing so well even with the current less the ideal conditions!


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## DoctorCAD (Jul 16, 2020)

Are you allowed to sell to North Carolina?


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## ffemt128 (Jul 29, 2020)

scruff_farrier said:


> After reading a few of your posts and this one over the last few months. I started putting two and two together I realized I've met you in person at a few different craft fairs/wine shows. My girlfriend is in love with a a few of your wines. I remember her saying she saw on social media about the survival kits, that was such a good idea to coordinate and have the pop up locations too. I can't wait for you to get a location, she will be thrilled to hear. It's is awesome to know you guys are doing so well even with the current less the ideal conditions!


What part of Pittsburgh are you from?


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## scruff_farrier (Aug 2, 2020)

ffemt128 said:


> What part of Pittsburgh are you from?


Armstrong county, but I work in Harmarville. Not technically Pittsburgh.


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## Hokapsig (Aug 2, 2020)

DoctorCAD said:


> Are you allowed to sell to North Carolina?


unfortunately, we don't have a license to ship our wines. We are allowed to deliver, but not to ship.


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## Hokapsig (Aug 2, 2020)

so we've picked up a third farmer's market. The state has stopped all tastings unless you are supplying the wine with a meal. Farmer's markets are serving food, so we are covered there and are permitted to do tastings and sales for off site consumption. Despite having 9 months of shows cancelled, we are still ahead of last years sales, and we are flowing more proceeds to the bottom line as we don't have to pay the entrance fee for the shows. Luckily, we don't have the overhead of rent of a mortgage at this time. However, we receive a dozen calls per week of people wanting to visit the winery, which the state has shut down anyhow being that we don't serve food,


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## DoctorCAD (Aug 3, 2020)

Hokapsig said:


> unfortunately, we don't have a license to ship our wines. We are allowed to deliver, but not to ship.


Bummer...


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## vineyarddog (Aug 3, 2020)

Hokapsig said:


> unfortunately, we don't have a license to ship our wines. We are allowed to deliver, but not to ship.


What is your delivery radius? South Hills??


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## ffemt128 (Aug 5, 2020)

vineyarddog said:


> What is your delivery radius? South Hills??




If you're in the South HIlls, D & O Wine Cellars is at The Original Farmer's Market M-W-F. This market starts at 5:30 We are also at the Carnegie Farmer's Market on Sundays from noon til 3:00. Our storefront is located in Crafton


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## Hokapsig (Dec 5, 2020)

vineyarddog said:


> What is your delivery radius? South Hills??


we can go there and visit D&O too. We've been all the way out to Robinson for a delivery,


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## Hokapsig (Dec 5, 2020)

well, it's early December in the year of Covid and allows us to look back on our 7th year of being an official winery.....

Fortunately, we were able to increase our sales by 40 to 50% in January and February (we had only budgeted a 10% increase for the year). Then Covid hit and cancelled all shows for the year. We had stocked up for some larger spring shows and were sitting on a boatload of inventory. We decided to make lemonade from the lemons the virus dealt us. We began to market our 3 bottle box of wines as a "Covid Survival Pack" and offered a free delivery with a 4 bottle purchase. My wife used her cardmaking skills to come up with a nice Survival Pack tag which was very well recieved, especially when the state shut down the state stores, but allowed wineries and breweries to continue to sell. Our sales zoomed with little overhead as compared to the wine shows. 

In May, the farmer's markets began and the community embraced us by supporting local wines. We were astounded by the response, especially since we were initially not permitted to allow tastings of the wines, but then appealed to the state which gave us guidelines to conduct tastings. We picked up an additional farmer's market (giving us a total of 3). My wife and her aunt manned 2 of the markets during the week while i was working from home with my regular job. I was available to resupply the markets after my workday and my wife and I were able to work the Saturday morning market. Apparently, people being able to talk to the winemaker is a drawing card and I like to talk about my wines anyhow (plus it got me out of the house which made me happy). Cost for the markets averaged $30 a week for all three markets, so our profit margin looked very good. 

We are now involved with a local liquor trail called the Laurel Highlands Pour Tour. This has directed a lot of new customers to us and provided us with many repeat sales. Not having a storefront due to Covid, we were able to steer customers to the markets for tastings and purchases. However, with those markets ending, we are now unable to do any tastings and can only offer curbside purchases and pick ups. With the state changing the rules for liquor establishments on a weekly basis due to Covid, we are relieved that we don't have the overhead of a storefront at this time. 

We were able to generate some additional room in the winery and brought in an extra 600 liter tank to increase our production. We picked up a used 4 bottle filling system, but have yet to use it as we just don't have the space to fit in to the winery. We were able to donate some off spec wine to a distillery to use to make hand sanitizer during the initial days of Covid. The sanitizer was then donated to the front line emergency workers and truckers to deliver products and keep the supply chain open. 

We have been vigilant for another location opportunity since the nearby farm was purchased by the neighbor that complained to the township and kept us out. The other acreage we were considering also sold. Due to Covid, a local theater closed which presented an opportunity which we are still considering, but it has issues. It originally was a Civil War era farm, which is the vibe we are looking for, but has MANY issues, the main one being the lack of a Certificate of Occupancy. We have another opportunity which is supposed to present itself next year, but more on that later as it develops. Luckily, when the economy crashed at the end of March, we took the funds we were saving for a property and dove into the market and have nearly doubled our funds (figuring if we couldn't make money selling wine, we would make in the market), Little did we know that we would fortunate to make money at both. 

Although 2021 isn't looking great right now, we are still prepping our inventory for the day when we are allowed to go back to sales at shows or farmer's markets. We are toying with some new recipes and hope to add a couple of new wines to our repertoire. We added an Ice Wine and a Cranberry this year, and we look forward to bringing out a port. We still consider ourselves fortunate and we have been humbled by the response and support.


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## jgmillr1 (Dec 5, 2020)

Flexibility is the name of the game for surviving in this environment. I consider 2020 to be the year of the small winery. While the larger wineries cancelled their under 250 person events because they were too small potatoes for them, for us that was great and we thrived on the fact no one was doing anything else. The farmers markets were the best we've seen also.

That meant our winery went through a V shaped recovery this spring-summer but we are seeing the seasonal fall-winter sales are slowing faster than usual due to more restrictions and fears. 

However, we are continuing to expand of our crush pad equipment and tanks capacity. People will not stop drinking wine (thankfully). And our vineyard will keep producing, virus or no virus. Go 2021.


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## KevinL (Dec 6, 2020)

I was also a little worried about slower sales, and that was the way things started for me, but as it turns out Alcohol is a bit of a recession proof industry. We released our port last month. Moves a little slower than the light fruity stuff in the summer, but it's nice to broaden our offerings. Thanks for sharing! May 2021 bring more adventures, and more success!


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## Hokapsig (Dec 7, 2020)

we are getting ready to release our port also. Label approved, now to get it in the rotation.


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## Hokapsig (Apr 13, 2022)

well, its been some time since we posted about our winery.....

We are now 9 years into our winery and STILL no location for a storefront. This has good and bad implications. The bad is that we have no where to point customers in the winter months for tasting and bottle sales. The good, from a business perspective is that our overhead costs have been kept in check, allowing us to flow more to our bottom line and keep our cash flow positive.

The pandemic caused us some problems (having a winery is all about solving problems). The state closed down the alcohol state store system, yet allowed wineries to be labled as essential businesses and stay open, though we weren't allowed to offer tastings. This was a HUGE positive impact for us. We were able to post on social media about what wines we had available and we created a tag which stated "Covid Survival Pack" which we put on our 3 bottle boxes. People loved the marketing and sales soared. Even with the pandemic shutting down our festivals, the farmers markets were still open and we sold well there. However, we ended up about $5k under the previous years sales. 

The pandemic also caused us issues with sourcing grapes as the vineyards were unable to keep up with the demand for juice and we ran out of some key varietals for selling and blending. Enter our farmers at farmers markets. They approached us with over ripe fruit which they could not sell and gave us about 400 pounds of peaches, and pallets of strawberries and raspberries. We then juiced the fruit and came up with several fruit wines which saved our season. With leftover pinot grigio, we took the shredded coconut from not having a cookie exchange and blended it with some lime wine (from a test batch) and created a Pinot Colada wine. Other wines found their own following due to no other grape wines in the wine tanks. We created a "party wine" by combining small lots of dry reds and named it Winemaker's Blend, which now sells well enough for us to recreate the wine now that more juice is available.

Although our search for a location was put on hold, we were able to make some contacts for a local storefront, which has yet to come to fruition. However, by offering a wine tasting to parents during Halloween, we were able to meet a new neighbor who didn't taste the wine, but just stood by observing the parents tasting the wine and thier comments. We then talked with our new neighbor and found out he manages a large grocery store (Giant Eagle) and asked us to sell our wine in his store. This has provided us with a passive income by just selling to the store who uses their liquor license to resell the wine. 

The summer of 2021 started with our farmer's markets again and we expanded our markets from 2 markets to 4. Although the markets were not as robust as the economy was opening up, the wine festivals which opened up saw an increase in sales of 40 to 50% which made up for downturn of the farmer's markets. The farmer's markets still allow us to move some wine and to test new wines to see how they would be recieved. 

We took first place in a local wine festival and will return this May to defend our title. We are still missing 3 BIG wine festivals, but supplemented the loss of those with smaller shows with better attendance. Hopefully those festivals will return in 2023. In the meantime, we were able to recall our festival staff for working the wine events, though we did lose some good employees. We are still looking to increase our production as the festivals are coming back in 2022 and with the farmer's markets and our grocery store, it has been tough to keep up. The grocery store wants us to increase the number of stores by 200%, with eventually being in every store from Pittsburgh to Altoona. Though this would be a blessing, this would also strain our logistics for making the wine for sale. Our bottle source has increased their pricing and bottles have moving toward a scarcity, though we keep at least pallets available at all times. 

Just more problems to solve.


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## baratras (Jun 13, 2022)

I moved from a country where wine is a way of life, yet I don't particularly like wine.


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## Hokapsig (Jun 14, 2022)

update, we were able to defend our Best Beverage title at the wine festival. That makes 2 years in a row and we were able to get some more loyal customers to follow us to other festivals. Those are the easyist sales as they come to us and want to try the new wines. We were also invited to another wine festival which we had not been able to participate in due to us not either being "known" enough or not having a storefront. We sold well (almost a 100% sell out despite 12 other wineries) and were able to gain new customers when we get back to that area in July for another nearby festival. 

Costs due to the economy have skyrocketed. Our bottle costs and sugar have both increased about 25%, gasoline for picking up supplies, going to the farmer's markets and festivals is a challenge and we have not increased our prices to make our wines more economical for our customers. We did have to increase our Blackberry wine cost a dollar a bottle due to the shortage and increased costs which went from $10 per gallon of juice to $45 a gallon, and it's now not available. 

Manpower to work the shows is also a challenge as availability has gone down and costs per hour have gone up. Our family has graciously chipped in thier time to help during the markets and an occasional festival. 

We are flattered that other wineries are not only copying our wines, but also copying our printed materials (at times verbatim). We are still flattered, but whatever helps the local wine trail is helping us all. We are waiting on a decision to finally access a property for a storefront and will prepare to make it a destination for our community. Hopefully this takes off and i can retire to just doing the winery business. Currently working from 6 to midnight is getting old along with a full time day job.


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## HANKfxr (Dec 27, 2022)

I know this thread is kind of old, but it still gets updated from time to time.

I just wanna say thanks for this! Its a great thread with a lot of helpful information for someone who is wanting to get into the business (winery/cidery), your story is a very similar one to how ours is turning out.

We have a pretty big following on social media, due to our homesteading page Log in or sign up to view which will help us when it comes to the cidery/winery. Our town officials and community members are incredibly supportive of our dreams. We get recognized all over the island, its a very weird thing.

I would like to discuss more about this, if you don't mind.  Thanks. I'm looking to increase our production, and trying to figure out the best way of going about it.


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## Hokapsig (Dec 27, 2022)

as 2022 comes to a close, we can look back on our year and see what was done right, and where some challenges remain.....

We are moving into our 9th year of being fully licensed and our sales continue to escalate. We will hit an all time high sales for the year, even without our best selling wine for 6 months and some other popular wines slow to come to market as the supply chain has hit us hard. 

Our meetings with a local farmer's market are looking to come to fruition as we should have a tasting room and sales location in our town. This will present an all new list of challenges as we have always been "roadies" and have never had a stationary place to call our own. Learning from other wineries, manpower and staffing will be an issue (but, hey, who doesn't want to work at a winery???), as well as increasing production to cover the tasting room, festivals, farmer's markets and the Giant Eagle grocery chain which will be adding additional stores in 2023 to the 3 which we already have. 

The local grocery chain has been a blessing and a learning experience. We never needed UPC codes as our wines were only sold in farmers markets and festivals. Our stores want to be able to track which wines are selling and how fast. The liquor director for the grocery store chain questioned why we had so many different wines at his stores, and we told him to check his movement reports - our wines are moving twice as fast as other wines offered by the store. The UPC issue will be an investment for us, but will allow more stores and other grocery chains to also sell our wines (something about costing money to make money). We continue to support our wines by conducting tastings in the stores and this appears to increase the sales of our wines. A win/win for the store and for us. We are also scanning the forums on this website for new and unusual wines to add to our menu. We were thinking of a pumpkin wine for fall, but the deer got to the pumpkins before we could and decimated the crop. Looks like we need to move a bit faster next year. 

Festivals appear to be coming back on line in 2023 post Covid. Our largest 2 shows will be back in March and April which should give us a boost in sales going into farmer's market season. We have made the decision to cut back on some markets from attending weekly to attending bimonthly. We find that these markets have become our de facto tasting rooms and allow us to reach a bigger audience than people actually driving to a tasting room. Although we will continue to have wine sales at these markets, our purpose will be to drive people to our new tasting room. 

To increase our future production, we were contacted by another winery which was going to close. We ended up purchasing the equipment, but not the building and land (as this winery was located too far from our home base). Unfortunately, until we are able to get our tasting room location, all of this equipment is in storage. We will need to go through the TTB to have an additional manufacturing location approved and added to our license as well as the state license to add an additional satellite location for sales. We hope that with the added location comes the sales to justify the added expense of monthly rent, insurance, utilities, and additional manpower costs. PA is also requiring all wineries to register and be audited by the PA Dept of Agriculture, which will be an additional cost and burden for compliance. We were approached by the Dept of Ag in 2020, but they had backed off due to Covid and businesses were already dealing with all the Covid guidelines. This will be another learning process for us.

We would really like to have one year where we have all of our wines available, no supply chain issues, no pandemics and manpower available to see what our sales volume really could be. I look forward to backing away from my full time job and just doing the winery, but the medical benefits appear to be the only sticking point. My personal goal is to finally get the tasting room established, have it be successful, and then sell the entire winery within 5 years and let someone younger reap the benefits of my dream while we fade into the sunset to our forever home or farm.


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