# Apple Cider Wine?



## Big Port (Sep 7, 2006)

Hi all, <?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

I am picking up some fresh pressed apple cider and am considering either hard cider, apple wine or maybe a little of both. Anyone have any experience making wine from fresh cider? Also, I was thinking I may pick up an extra gallon or so that I want to add to it toward the end after stabilizing to get some more apple flavor. What would be the best way to preserve the fresh cider? Should I add some <?amespace prefix = st1 ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficearttags" /><st1:City wt="on"><st1lace wt="on">Camden</st1lace></st1:City> to it now or maybe? Or could I maybe freeze the whole gallon??


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## grapeman (Sep 7, 2006)

Big Port,
They are easy to make, but if this is the first cider of the season, you may want to wait a while. Early made cider is generally made from early apples and the apples aren't as sweet or flavorful as they will get later. The acids tend to be a little lacking at this stage. I will try to post a recipe I use later. I think adding a little cider back in later is a good idea- I will be adding some to 6 gallons I have been bulk aging for almost a year. I find without it, the flavor just isn't quite a normal apple cider flavor and I find it harsh, but my wife likes it. As a side note, the first batch I made last year as an early apple cider(9/18/05) started fermenting in the bottle-must be a malolactic. Acork flew across the basement and hit my son 20 feet away. Unintentional sparkling apple wine- we are using it for cooking and it tastes more flavorful than the other batches.




I hope we can use up about 25 bottles before too many more blow their top!


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## Wade E (Sep 7, 2006)

Theres a winery in Ct. that makes a spiced apple wine that is delish. I
bet it would be very similiar to an apple cider wine. Just make sure
you dont ferment it then freeze it as that would be applejack. OOPS.


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## Funky Fish (Sep 7, 2006)

I've made apple wine from fresh-pressed cider. Of the two batches I did, I found the batch that was sweetened slightly was better. The other batch I oaked a bit - it would be good if it had properly been degassed. Which brings me to a couple of pointers:


1) Apple cider foams like a beast, even with a low-foaming yeast. Leave plenty of headspace or scoop the foam out on a daily basis with a sanitized spoon (until the vigorous fermentation settles down).


2) My apple wine stayed gassy. Even with bulk aging for 6 - 9 months. So be sure it is properly degassed prior to bottling.


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## Wade E (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks for the pointer as I will be trying this soon.


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## Big Port (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks for all the input. I have made apple wine from regular juice before and it was a big hit, I sweetened it in the end with juice concentrate and it was awesome! Looking forward to trying this with fresh cider, I'll update as I go.<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />


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## peterCooper (Sep 8, 2006)

So, what's the difference between cider and apple juice? In the UK cider referes to fermented pressed apple juice.


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## dfwwino (Sep 8, 2006)

Peter, like you, I've often been confused by the multiple meanings of cider. Luckily, there is Google. Here's the official position of the State of Massachusetts (a great apple growing region) on the difference:


http://www.mass.gov/agr/massgrown/cider_juice_difference.htm


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## masta (Sep 8, 2006)

In the Northeast apple cider is the unfiltered juice from pressed apples with nothing added. It has much more flavor due to the solids in the juice and needs to be kept refrigerated to prevent spoiling. 
Apple juice is normally filtered pasteurized apple juice made most times from concentrate. 


Ciders mills in my area pasteurize theircider due to the FDA rules on selling fruit juices:


The Federal Food and drug Administration (FDA) published new regulations in January 2001 covering production of fruit juices including apple juice. It covers 64 pages in the Federal Register. In a nut shell, it says the following; There is a documented problem. If you are going to sell juice to the public and be involved in intrastate/interstate commerce, you must comply with the rule. You must implement a Hazard Analysis &amp; Critical Control Point (HACCP) program that will reduce the pathogens by a factor of 100,000. For the smallest producers, they must implement the program by January, 2004.

There are three commercially available processes to achieve the results the rule calls for that most cider mills could use on their scale. The first and oldest is heat pasteurization which is most commonly used. Two relatively new processes are Ultra Violet Light (UV) cold pasteurization and Ozone gas treatment.


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## dfwwino (Sep 8, 2006)

Thanks Masta. Now I know why my local, self-pickapple orchard quit pressing apple juice for me and instead has me now take my apples home and do the pressing myself. It is wonderful how the FDA protects us from the hazard of apple cider while allowing us to continue to consume less harmful substances, like cigarettes.


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## grapeman (Sep 8, 2006)

Yes, I agree. Apple cider is really dangerous. If the apples aren't clean or the equipment isn't sterile, it can lead to a nasty case of diahhrea(sp). There have been a couple cases where an individual who was extremely weakened actually died from the trots. Solution, regulate the sale and treatment of the cider- a warning is not good enough. The other product you mention is documented to cause severe health problems and many diseases leading to death. Solution - put a warning on the label so people may make an informed decision to use it or not. Seems about right to me!


By the way, I still press my own cider although had to give up selling it a few years ago due to cost prohibitive regulations for selling it.


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## paubin (Sep 8, 2006)

When I was living in TX a restaurant I went to made you sign a waiver to get a rare steak or eggs that weren't hard cooked.


Sooner or later the safetycrats will have us all eating our dehydrated tofu pills and washing them down with distilled radiated water.






Pete


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## pkcook (Sep 9, 2006)

Can you make wine from tofu?



Couldn't resist!


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## Funky Fish (Sep 11, 2006)

Around here, cider mills can press your apples, but they 1) cannot be resold; 2) have to be labeled as "unpasteurized cider"; 3) be put in new jugs; and 4) have a pressing receipt with name, address, phone, and date/time of pressing.
Even though food-born illnesses are sporadic, there is concern that children, the elderly, and people with weakened immune systems might get sick from an outbreak of e. coli or similar bacteria poisoning. Personally, if there would be an outbreak tracked to the cider mill that I pressed my apples at, I'm glad they would have the means to track down customers and make appropriate notifications.


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## Gelu Liber (Sep 11, 2006)

I started my own batch of apple wine this weekend. I have a good sizepress with a chipper. It takes quite a few apples to get 3 gallons of cider. My beginning S.G was 1.080. I don't know if that is good or bad or normal though.


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## peterCooper (Sep 11, 2006)

I would think that good.
Both apple wines I've done have been 1.050 or there abouts and I've used sugar to up the SG to a reasonable range.


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## Gelu Liber (Sep 12, 2006)

I added the yeast 24 hours ago and I don't see much/any sign of life in the Primary. No fizzing, no frothing, no bubbling. I stirred it as the directions indicate to. Does this sound right? Should I add more yeast and or energizer?


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## Wade E (Sep 12, 2006)

Did you use any nutrient?


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## Gelu Liber (Sep 12, 2006)

Iused nutrient when I added all the ingredients and sugar. I boiled the sugar in water and then let it cool and added it.


Do you think I should add more nutrient?


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## dfwwino (Sep 12, 2006)

Did you add sulfites before adding the yeast? The sulphites might be taking longer than normal to come out of solution and your fermentation may take a couple of days to start up. Also, what yeast did you use? Some are slow fermenters (cotes de blanc, premier cuvee), others quite robust as my carpet and walls can attest (pasteur red). I'd wait another 24 hours and maybe even 48 hours before I got worried. If there's still no action, I'd stir to degas possible over sulphiting and add another rehydrated packet of yeast (perhaps a strong fermenting yeast). *Edited by: dfwwino *


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## Wade E (Sep 13, 2006)

I agree, I would give it a little more time before doing anything to it.


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## Gelu Liber (Sep 13, 2006)

I used 71B-1122 yeast. I only had one packet. I have a few K1-V1116.


Today still nothing. I used 6 crushed Campden Tablets because the recipe called for 1 per gallon and I am making siz gallons.


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## Wade E (Sep 14, 2006)

How is it going? I started an spiced-mulled apple wine and had a little
trouble with it getting it started too. I added a little more yeast
nutient to it and another sachet of yeast and warmed it up a little by
putting a light very close to it.and *BAMMM*, it took off like a
rocket. I probably didnt have to add more yeast but I got impatiet(not
a winemakers friend) but its done so, oh well. Moral to the story is
try putting a little nutrient or energizer in and maybe boost up the
temp just a little if its anywhere near being too cold. I think yeast
has a little harder time getting started when the temp is down but the
rest of mine that are already going have no problem.


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## pkcook (Sep 14, 2006)

Wade.
Glad to hear the apple is hopping now! I just started a plum this morning and it is singing to me with an aroma that only a winemaker can appreciate!


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## Gelu Liber (Sep 15, 2006)

Last night I added another packet of yeast. Today I stirred it and it looked like maybe it is starting to fizz a little bit. Tommorrow I will add nutirent and energizer if it looks the same.


Thank you everyone for giving me pointers. If it wasn't for this forum I probably would have given up all together.


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