# top up or not



## aftermath (May 19, 2012)

I am a little confused guys as to topping up my Carboys after fermentation
i have finished stage 2 of fermentation, added the finings, and done the de-gassing, yesterday.

It is confusing because people on here tell me that the air space in the carboy , if its too much it will damage the wine like as if an open bottle is left for a week, it will go off.
Yet the instructions from my Californian Connoisseur kits say " DO NOT TOP UP WINE OR I WILL SPOIL THE WINE " so i am left with a wine 2 litres short of carboy 23 litre mark..

i am in the UK , so i use 5 gallon kits. 23 litres, 30 bottles

Californian Connoisseur kits ( these say dont top up or you will spoil the wine quality ) but the 23 litres at the start is now about 21 litres, so i lose 2 litres.
Now the wine level in the the carboy is about 5-6 inches from the top of the carboy.

Vintners reserve kits ( these say top up to 2 inches from stopper with water ) so i put in about 2 litres of water to 2 inches from stopper.


I have a House of Beaverdale kit ready to start today..

edit... another question is , can we not just add an extra litre of water at the very first stage, that way it will account for losses ?


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## rodo (May 19, 2012)

> Californian Connoisseur kits ( these say
> dont top up or you will spoil the wine quality ) but the 23 litres at the start
> is now about 21 litres, so i lose 2 litres.
> Now the wine level in the the
> carboy is about 5-6 inches from the top of the carboy.


The bottom line is you need a smaller carboy. Then if you need to top up you would use a finished wine similar to the one you are topping up. Or if you are going to make a sweet wine top up with SS (simple syrup)


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## Rocky (May 19, 2012)

My guess is that the instruction in the California Connoisseur kit is cautioning not to add water to top off the wine. While I do not think that will "spoil" the wine, it will reduce the wine's overall quality. It is best to limit the amont of ullage in the container. This can be accomplished in several ways: use smaller containers, top off with a similar wine or take up the space in the container with an neutral substance such as sterilized glass marbles.

Lastly, I would not add more water in the beginning as you suggested.


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## Duster (May 19, 2012)

I believe it is a risk either way, if you top up with water you affect the PH of the wine and dilute down from it's intended finished levels, but if you do not top up then you risk oxidation. 
A lot of us on here will top up with a nice white wine or I even read that someone used sanitized glass marbles in a carboy to make up the difference.


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## Duster (May 19, 2012)

I have had others beet me to a post but never two at a time, wow busy place this morning


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## aftermath (May 19, 2012)

Thanks once again guys.

i am about to order some glass marbles, looks like thats my only option.

in the UK i can only find 5 gallon or 1 gallon carboys/demijohns.

topping up with similar wine for me defeats the object of making my own wine, i cant see the point in adding some other wine ( unless it has been made by you in similar conditions ) i mean if i was to buy some from the shop just to top up seems wrong to me. Thats just my thought..


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## aftermath (May 19, 2012)

I ordered some glass marbles.

also i would like to add to my first post.....

i am now at the 10 to 12 day clearing stage of my kits , after the 10/12 days i will be bottling it, so i dont know if the previous posts ( carbon air gap ) is an issue over a short period ?


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## BernardSmith (May 19, 2012)

2 liters of space will require a lot of marbles. Is there no balloon made of some kind of inert material that can be filled with air to take up the space?


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## aftermath (May 20, 2012)

BernardSmith said:


> 2 liters of space will require a lot of marbles. Is there no balloon made of some kind of inert material that can be filled with air to take up the space?



ive ordered 2000 marbles for about £30 , supposed to be enough for 4 litres space, so i can keep 2 kits going at a time., but i am also thinking of getting some 1 gallon demijohns, that way after the degassing stage i could transfer to these, and that way only need to add marbles to the 5th demijohn, also i can bottle 6 at a time, and leave the rest in the 1 gallon demijohns until needed.


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## Rocky (May 20, 2012)

Aftermath, just curious, in the UK what size bottles of wine are available at the wine stores? In the "Colonies" we have 750 ml, 1500 ml and "one gallon" sizes (which are not quite a gallon). I know that in Italy and Germany, I have purchased something about the size of a 750 ml, but I don't recall what other sizes were available. My point is that is a good source for the "one gallon" sizes, if you like the wine well enough to buy it.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 20, 2012)

This is a perfect example of why I decided to come up with the idea of the bladder.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/carboy-air-space-bladder-trial-version-18124/


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## Famineguy (May 20, 2012)

vacuumpumpman said:


> This is a perfect example of why I decided to come up with the idea of the bladder.
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/carboy-air-space-bladder-trial-version-18124/



Having just topped off my Malbec with a commercially produced bottle, I find this an interesting topic. I can see the marbles possibly being a chore to remove and clean. The bag looks simple. How far along is this idea?


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## vacuumpumpman (May 20, 2012)

Famineguy said:


> Having just topped off my Malbec with a commercially produced bottle, I find this an interesting topic. I can see the marbles possibly being a chore to remove and clean. The bag looks simple. How far along is this idea?


 

So far I have approx only 15 beta testers out there as of right now. I have had an overall good conclusion on it as of right now. PM me if intreted , as I did not get as much responce as I thought when I initially introduced it. It has been out for approx 3 months now


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## Famineguy (Jul 4, 2012)

Ok. So, I tried the marbles method a couple of days ago. I used about 650. It took some time to wash them all and soak in K-meta. Now I have a layer of marbles on the bottom of the carboy. When it comes time to rack the wine, I can see that I am going to have another cleaning job to strain off the marbles and clean them. I am also concerned about breakage.

I intend to try the bag method on my next batch and compare the two methods. Hopefully, in a year or so, I will have enough wine tat I will be able to top off with my own.


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