# Growing Frontenac Grapes



## vinividivici (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm starting this thread for the Northern growers interested in Frontenac grapes. I plan on ordering fifty vines and hope to get the usual expert advice I get on the Marquette thread.

My first question is the orientation of the rows. I'd like to site them about fifty feet from my Marquettes, but maybe in a different direction. The below picture shows the Marquette rows in an East to West direction, with the ground slope going from both South to North and West to East.

Should I plant the Frontenac in the same direction or on the South to North slope? That is the larger slope than the West to East. Yeah, the ground has a compound slope, ergo my questions on this.

Also, I assume there won't be any harmful cross-pollination between the Marquettes and Frontenacs? Large commercial vineyards have different varieties next to each other.

Thanks,
Bob


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## Racer (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm just offering up my opinion. You look like you have enough ground cleared for the expansion right along side your existing rows. Since you are following the contour on that slope you are helping to cut down on erosion problems. Keeping rows together can also help cut costs if you need to fence for animal control too. Don't worry about cross-pollination of the varieties unless your trying to breed a new variety from seed. 

Not trying to talk you out of your choice of vines but have you considered some of the other new varieties out there? Frontenac can make a good wine but does need attention on acid reduction. I have frontenac gris growing and as of yesterday the brix on single berries was averaging right at 24º. The acidity in tasting them is still high. I bet if I wasted enough grapes for titration testing I'd probably see around 1.2-1.3 TA


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## grapeman (Aug 20, 2011)

Racer said:


> I'm just offering up my opinion. You look like you have enough ground cleared for the expansion right along side your existing rows. Since you are following the contour on that slope you are helping to cut down on erosion problems. Keeping rows together can also help cut costs if you need to fence for animal control too. Don't worry about cross-pollination of the varieties unless your trying to breed a new variety from seed.
> 
> Not trying to talk you out of your choice of vines but have you considered some of the other new varieties out there? Frontenac can make a good wine but does need attention on acid reduction. I have frontenac gris growing and as of yesterday the brix on single berries was averaging right at 24º. The acidity in tasting them is still high. I bet if I wasted enough grapes for titration testing I'd probably see around 1.2-1.3 TA


 
If you are that low on the Frontenac Gris you are doing well. More likely 1.4-1.7 if only 24 brix.


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## grapeman (Aug 20, 2011)

Orientation is not that critical. I would go along with racer on this. 

No the grapes will not interfere with each other. I have begun to market last years grapes and even with high acid the Frontenac wine sells well either as a dry or semi-sweet wine. People like the flavors it offers as more complex than some others. I will comment more as you get this thread going. I have collected a lot of useful information on training systems for it.


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## vinividivici (Aug 21, 2011)

grapeman said:


> Orientation is not that critical. I would go along with racer on this.
> 
> No the grapes will not interfere with each other. I have begun to market last years grapes and even with high acid the Frontenac wine sells well either as a dry or semi-sweet wine. People like the flavors it offers as more complex than some others. I will comment more as you get this thread going. I have collected a lot of useful information on training systems for it.



Grapeman,

Interesting you mentioned Frontenac as a dry or semi-sweet. We were at the Thousand Islands Winery yesterday and tasted both. I've only had the dry version before this. What struck me was that they chilled the semi-sweet and each then had a different taste. Not the sweetness, but the complexity.

I examined their vines and they had a two wire trellis that looked like a 4-arm Kniffen. I welcome your expertise as I get started, along with the other great contributors to this forum.

Bob


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## vinividivici (Aug 21, 2011)

Racer said:


> I'm just offering up my opinion. You look like you have enough ground cleared for the expansion right along side your existing rows. Since you are following the contour on that slope you are helping to cut down on erosion problems. Keeping rows together can also help cut costs if you need to fence for animal control too. Don't worry about cross-pollination of the varieties unless your trying to breed a new variety from seed.
> 
> Not trying to talk you out of your choice of vines but have you considered some of the other new varieties out there? Frontenac can make a good wine but does need attention on acid reduction. I have frontenac gris growing and as of yesterday the brix on single berries was averaging right at 24º. The acidity in tasting them is still high. I bet if I wasted enough grapes for titration testing I'd probably see around 1.2-1.3 TA



I'm growing Marquette (first season) right now and we are very partial to dry reds, although we enjoy tasting fine whites at wineries. Also planning on growing the Frontenac as a partial cash crop if I can. Need to investigate that aspect, too. 

Thanks for the orientation advice!

Bob


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## grapeman (Aug 21, 2011)

As a semi-sweet, Frontenac really is a different taste. Some folks prefer it dry and some a bit sweeter. The sweetness rounds out the edges of the acid finish of Frontenac and give it more depth. My semi-sweet has an almost plum characteristic and sells 2 to 1 of unsweetened Frontenac. I also limit skin contact to 3 days on the semi-sweet and 10 days on the dry. Thousand Island and Coyote Moon both have very nice Frontenacs.


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## vinividivici (Aug 21, 2011)

grapeman said:


> As a semi-sweet, Frontenac really is a different taste. Some folks prefer it dry and some a bit sweeter. The sweetness rounds out the edges of the acid finish of Frontenac and give it more depth. My semi-sweet has an almost plum characteristic and sells 2 to 1 of unsweetened Frontenac. I also limit skin contact to 3 days on the semi-sweet and 10 days on the dry. Thousand Island and Coyote Moon both have very nice Frontenacs.



What is the RS on your semi-sweet? I like it both ways, but a 2-5% RS was really tasty.


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## grapeman (Aug 22, 2011)

Without giving away secrets, it is in that range.


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## Dougxox (Aug 22, 2011)

What would be the ideal brix and TA at harvest? or at least what do you shoot for?


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## grapeman (Aug 22, 2011)

Personally I shoot for 26-28 brix with Frontenac and 1.2g/L TA when possible.


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## Racer (Aug 22, 2011)

Grapeman and others too,
When working with frontenac that comes in at 26-28º brix and 1.2TA. Do you recommend watering back the juice to a lower brix and lower TA level? Or would you rather just work on reducing the TA by other methods.


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## grapeman (Aug 22, 2011)

I RARELY water any wines at all. It leads to thin poorly favored wines. There are other ways of dealing with the acid. Believe it or not 1.2 g/L TA is low for Frontenac and would be a joy to work with. I rely mainly on cold stabilization and Malolactic fermentation to drop the TA.


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