# wine conditioner?



## twrfish (Oct 24, 2012)

I have 5 gal of cherry ros'e at the bottling stage, the receipe calls for wine conditioner I have very little experince with conditioner I know i tried it one time many years ago. I can't remember what the results were, so i thought i would put it out here to see what opinions are of the experienced makers on here. thanks for opinions in advance.


----------



## robie (Oct 24, 2012)

I've seen where they refer to an F pack as a wine conditioner, so it really depends on what that conditioner is and what it is supposed to do.

It could be extra flavor and it could include a sweetener, or it could be just a sweetener. 

If it is just a sweetener, I would only add it if you want a sweet rose.

Not much help, I know.


----------



## TonyP (Oct 24, 2012)

Wine Conditioner is a product comprised of invert sugars (non-fermentable) together with potassium sorbate in liquid form. It's available fro Midwest, EC Kraus, Label Peelers, and probably many others for around $7.00.

Tony P.


----------



## joeswine (Oct 24, 2012)

*What condition my condition is in?*

USUALLY WINE CONDITIONERS ARE EITHER FOR SMOOTHING OUT THE BACK END OF HOT WINES OR FOR ADDING GRAPE FLAVOR BACK TO THE WINE,SAY A RED WINE ADDING THE CONDITIONER BACK IN, AS A FPAC,OR WHITE,. SHOULD REALLY ONLY BE USED IN TROUBLED WINES.MOP


----------



## cpfan (Oct 24, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Wine Conditioner is a product comprised of invert sugars (non-fermentable) together with potassium sorbate in liquid form. It's available fro Midwest, EC Kraus, Label Peelers, and probably many others for around $7.00.
> 
> Tony P.


The Wine Conditioner products sold in Canada (at least up to 2007) were definitely fermentable.

The potassium sorbate contained in them was enough to prevent (usually) the conditioner from fermenting, but not enough when the conditioner was added to the wine.

Based on comments on the various forums over the years, I'm pretty sure that those points are also true of American wine conditioners. If they have switched to non-fermentable sugars that is great.

Steve


----------



## shoelesst (Oct 24, 2012)

cpfan said:


> The Wine Conditioner products sold in Canada (at least up to 2007) were definitely fermentable.
> 
> The potassium sorbate contained in them was enough to prevent (usually) the conditioner from fermenting, but not enough when the conditioner was added to the wine.
> 
> ...



I will echo this. 
It is supposed to non-fermentable. They give you a minimum amount to put it. The trouble is the minimum amount is pretty high. If you are just adding enough to sweeten slightly, add a small amount of sorbate on your own.
My brother in law added a little and ended up with serious fizzy wine because it fermented in the bottle. 

Remember also with this product, you can't take the sweetness out once you add it, so do it on steps and be sure not to overdue it.


----------



## twrfish (Oct 24, 2012)

well i added a total of 4 oz of conditioner to a gallon of wine in 1oz increments, my wife did the taste test since this wine was her idea when she found a great deal on cherries. she was happy with the sweetness and how much smoother the wine got so i treated the other 4 gallons at the same rate. i also took the advice given here and added sorbate to make sure of no further fermentation. i'll bottle age for another 5 months and let you know results.


----------



## Brew and Wine Supply (Oct 24, 2012)

Wine conditioner has just enough sorbate in it to keep the sweetner from fermenting, if you still have some sugar in your wine or add additonal sugar it may take off again with the addition of the conditioner. Recomended to add some K-meta at the same time and wait a day before bottleing.


----------



## shoelesst (Oct 24, 2012)

The bottle label on EC Krause wine conditioner, which I'm pretty sure is the same as everyone's else's, just privately labeled, says:


MINIMUM DOSAGE: If less than 2 ounces per gallon is used then also add Potassium Sorbate at the rate of 1/4 teaspoon per gallon to eliminate any chance of re-fermentation.


----------



## wineon4 (Oct 25, 2012)

I use a Wine Conditioner that contains Invert Sugar (non fermentable) and Pot Sorbate about $5.00 at my local Brew shop. I use it to sweeten my fruit wines since my wife likes sweet wine. I use it after stabilizing and adjust the sweetness in a single bottle before I adjust to whole batch. I have not ezperienced any problems with it.


----------



## g8keeper (Oct 27, 2012)

wineon4 said:


> I use a Wine Conditioner that contains Invert Sugar (non fermentable) and Pot Sorbate about $5.00 at my local Brew shop. I use it to sweeten my fruit wines since my wife likes sweet wine. I use it after stabilizing and adjust the sweetness in a single bottle before I adjust to whole batch. I have not ezperienced any problems with it.


 wineon, i hate to differ with you, but invert sugar is actually MORE easily fermentable, as opposed to non-fermentable....this is one of the reasons some choose to actually make an inverted sugar solution, then add it to their fermenter, when putting their must together....the inversion process breaks the sucrose molecule down into 2 simpler sugars, glucose and fructose, thereby making it easier for yeast to eat and turn into alcohol....so if your wine conditioner is made from inverted sugar, it's actually MORE fermentable...


----------



## Julie (Oct 27, 2012)

g8keeper said:


> wineon, i hate to differ with you, but invert sugar is actually MORE easily fermentable, as opposed to non-fermentable....this is one of the reasons some choose to actually make an inverted sugar solution, then add it to their fermenter, when putting their must together....the inversion process breaks the sucrose molecule down into 2 simpler sugars, glucose and fructose, thereby making it easier for yeast to eat and turn into alcohol....so if your wine conditioner is made from inverted sugar, it's actually MORE fermentable...


 
g8keeper, the wine conditioner has k-meta and sorbate in it. It is made to backsweeten wines, it will not ferment. Personnally I don't use it because I believe it leaves an aftertaste to the wine.


----------



## cpfan (Oct 27, 2012)

Julie said:


> g8keeper, the wine conditioner has k-meta and sorbate in it. It is made to backsweeten wines, it will not ferment. Personnally I don't use it because I believe it leaves an aftertaste to the wine.


Sorry Julie, but I (and many others) believe that it will ferment when added to a wine. Based on experience.

If you add enough, there is sufficient sorbate to stop the ferment. I believe that shoelesst has the numbers right.

Steve


----------



## g8keeper (Oct 27, 2012)

Julie said:


> g8keeper, the wine conditioner has k-meta and sorbate in it. It is made to backsweeten wines, it will not ferment. Personnally I don't use it because I believe it leaves an aftertaste to the wine.


 
julie, i am only going by what he quoted about his wine conditioner containing invert sugar....no, on it's one it will not ferment, but has also been stated, the amount of sorbate in it is only to keep it fermenting in the bottle itself, making it shelf stable, and even as we are told that store bought juices that contain sorbates and such "cannot" be used for making wine, we also know that once the juice has been allowed to "air out" so to speak for a day or so, i.e lemon juice concentrate, we know that it can be fermented....therefore, in this case, if inverted wine conditioner is added to a must, it could ferment...bsaically, all i am getting at is that an inverted sugar solution is actually more fermentable than one that isn't inverted....


----------



## Julie (Oct 27, 2012)

Sorbate in a store bought juice is design to prevent wild yeast taking hold of the juice. the amount of sorbate is small.

Again let me state wine conditioner is sold to backsweeten wine, there are a lot of people who use it and never have I heard of them having a problem. Are you saying this is nt true? 

And can you explain to me why after 5 years of making wine and I make a lot of fruit wines and backsweeten all of them, why they are not re-fermenting since I use inverted sugar?


----------



## cpfan (Oct 27, 2012)

Julie said:


> Sorbate in a store bought juice is design to prevent wild yeast taking hold of the juice. the amount of sorbate is small.


True, Same is true of wine conditioner.



Julie said:


> Again let me state wine conditioner is sold to backsweeten wine, there are a lot of people who use it and never have I heard of them having a problem. Are you saying this is nt true?


If they used enough wine conditioner, it would be true. When I ran a store, I had customers who had this problem. One guy said he had never had the problem with his previous wines. When asked if he did anything different, he said that he used half the wine conditioner, ie he dropped below the minimum.



Julie said:


> And can you explain to me why after 5 years of making wine and I make a lot of fruit wines and backsweeten all of them, why they are not re-fermenting since I use inverted sugar?


Presumably because you added sorbate before the inverted sugar.

Steve


----------



## Julie (Oct 28, 2012)

Cfan, yes that is correct, I added sorbate and I that is my point. Wine coinditioners state how much you have to use to prevent -re-fermentation, so if you follow the instructions then it should not ferment, correct? And if this is not true, then how can they sell this product? I know you are going to tell me that there are a lot of products out there that don't do what they are suppose to do.

I just think we need to have some good clarity on wine conditioners because there are a lot of people who use it.


----------



## dralarms (Oct 28, 2012)

I tried that wine conditioner once. I actually could taste it. And my local pusher had it for 16.00 a bottle. I'll stick to sugar and using sorbate and k-meta to stabilize.


----------



## cpfan (Oct 28, 2012)

Julie said:


> Cfan, yes that is correct, I added sorbate and I that is my point. Wine coinditioners state how much you have to use to prevent -re-fermentation, *so if you follow the instructions then it should not ferment, correct?* And if this is not true, then how can they sell this product? I know you are going to tell me that there are a lot of products out there that don't do what they are suppose to do.
> 
> I just think we need to have some good clarity on wine conditioners because there are a lot of people who use it.


Can't disagree with your statements. However, the wine conditioner bottles that I have seen have non-existent to poor instructions on them. When I ran a store, I had a handout to give customers explaining the minimum level without sorbate and some suggested doses. Unfortunately not everybody follows instructions (or even reads them).

Steve


----------



## Julie (Oct 28, 2012)

Thanks Steve,

When I started to look at some of these posts, I became to realize that some feel that wine conditioners will start a re-fermentation and I started to get the idea that it was because it was inverted sugar that is causing this and others feel that it is ok. And this led me to wonder if we are confusing new winemakers.

I am glad this thread was started, as I stated I don’t use wine conditioner, but others do and I think it is great that we can give some better information about a product in winemaking.

Anther thing to add to what others have said, I would think shelf life plays a huge part in this as well since sorbate has a shelf life. If the conditioner was sitting on the shelf for a year, and even though the buyer used the appropriate amount won't the fact that it is over a year old also cause re-fermentation?


----------

