# Anyone Growing Carmenere?



## blueflint (Sep 1, 2014)

Is there anyone on here growing Carmenere? I am looking for general information, clone used, rootstock used, any unique growing habits, harvest time, your growing zone, etc. We are thinking about doing a trial of Carmenere here on the farm, probably 200 vines, either 101-14 or RIP rootstock. Carmenere seems to have a little more cold tolerance than Merlot and a little longer growing season too. Any personal experiences and information would be appreciated.

Thanks, Tony


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## Sage (Sep 1, 2014)

Not yet.... I'll be interested in any replies too.

I will be ordering 25 plants very soon for a trial run. Can't help on the root stock/clone as I rely on the nursery to provide the correct one for my altitude and location. The local college (Walla Walla CC wine program) told me it would do well here (they have some of it and the wine produced got my interest).


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## blueflint (Sep 1, 2014)

I am in USDA zone 6A. I recently started collecting information about Carmenere. Here in Ohio, the OSU Wooster farm has them planted, they used FPS 03 (virus treated) on 101-14 rootstock. Their data shows:

January 22, 2011 information (-3 F), it had a 7% primary bud injury
January 22, 2012 it had a LT50 (F) of -11.2

This ranks a little better than Cabernet Sauvignon and close to Cab Franc. I just e-mailed them about this past winter (Winter Vortex!) that devastated the vineyards here in the east. I am wanting to know if any survived, if any did, how severe was the damage, etc.

I contacted Jim Law at Linden Vineyard in Virginia (zone 7a I think), he told me:

_Carmenere faired well with almost no winter damage (unlike Merlot). The problem with Carmenere is very low fruitfulness and very late ripening._

Linden's Carmenere is planted on 3309 and Jim recommended RIP rootstock as it has a shorter vegetative cycle, thus accelerating fruit maturity. 

I also talked to Knights Grapevine Nursery in California, they also recommended RIP for the exact same reason, to shorten maturity.

Here in Ohio at the OSU Wooster farm, Carmenere is harvested before Cabernet Sauvignon. I think their use of 101-14 rootstock would be fine for us, I used 101-14 on my Cabernet Sauvignon for this same reason, it has a shorter vegetative cycle than 3309 and I have greater GDD than Wooster does. RIP has a shallower rooting than 101-14 which I don't like.

So far, this is basically what I have collected.

Tont


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## Vinniemac (Sep 2, 2014)

I live in Western Pennsylvania also zone 6a was wondering how Cab franc would do here
Vinnie


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## blueflint (Sep 2, 2014)

Cab Franc is considered the workhorse in 6A for a Vinifera in Ohio, New York, Ontario, etc. I am sure for you too. Things to remember, this past winter devastated the Vinifera vines here in the east but that was the worse winter in 35 or more years (for here at least). Most winters in 6a, Cab Franc does well with minimal damage. Cab Franc makes a nice "mid" type red wine, kind of like a Merlot, easy drinking but a little heavier than a Pinot Noir. One thing to also remember, make sure the fruit is well matured before harvest to minimize any vegetative flavors. It's a good grape for red wine. If you are going to spend the money and go the effort planting vines, make sure you are getting guaranteed virus free plants!!! Get a quality clone and the rootstock that is for your soil. Growing even a few plants is a lot of work and commitment. I personally will never buy vines again from here in the east, I have been burned by one big nursery. (enough venting!) There is a lot of good info out there on Cab Franc for here in the eastern states.

http://www.pawinegrape.com/

Growing cab franc

OK, anyone else on Carmenere or know of any vineyards with it we can contact here in the east?

Tony


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## Vinniemac (Sep 3, 2014)

Thanks for the great info.
Vinnie


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## mcv (Jan 8, 2020)

blueflint said:


> Is there anyone on here growing Carmenere? I am looking for general information, clone used, rootstock used, any unique growing habits, harvest time, your growing zone, etc. We are thinking about doing a trial of Carmenere here on the farm, probably 200 vines, either 101-14 or RIP rootstock. Carmenere seems to have a little more cold tolerance than Merlot and a little longer growing season too. Any personal experiences and information would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks, Tony


Hi Tony, I've been growing Carmenere on 3309 in Maryland's Eastern Shore for almost 20 years. The plants do well but I am having a terrible time getting the fruitfulness/yield up. I've tried standard VSP with cordon/spur pruning, cane pruned VSP, smart dyson, but nothing seems to work well consistently. I am going back to the smart dyson this year. The vines are very vigorous and produce a huge canopy which was why I changed from the smart dyson. I couldn't manage the foliage and had mildew problems. My rows are too close to try and do a double canopy (but I may try that as well). I contemplated ripping them out but the wine they produce is outstanding in my opinion when I get enough to make a straight varietal. Otherwise I use it in blends. It ripens slightly after the cabernet sauvignon which is typically the last week on October for me
mark


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## blueflint (Jul 12, 2021)

mcv said:


> Hi Tony, I've been growing Carmenere on 3309 in Maryland's Eastern Shore for almost 20 years. The plants do well but I am having a terrible time getting the fruitfulness/yield up. I've tried standard VSP with cordon/spur pruning, cane pruned VSP, smart dyson, but nothing seems to work well consistently. I am going back to the smart dyson this year. The vines are very vigorous and produce a huge canopy which was why I changed from the smart dyson. I couldn't manage the foliage and had mildew problems. My rows are too close to try and do a double canopy (but I may try that as well). I contemplated ripping them out but the wine they produce is outstanding in my opinion when I get enough to make a straight varietal. Otherwise I use it in blends. It ripens slightly after the cabernet sauvignon which is typically the last week on October for me
> mark


Low fruitfulness - low yield seems to be a common theme among those who grow it. All state it is more winter " hardy" than Merlot, similar to Cab. S. and late to ripen. The late ripening for me is a deterrent. I'm looking at a planting small trial of Malbec. Cab. F does well here and most years so does Can. S. If winters were just a touch milder, I would go with Merlot... still might.


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## Sage (Jul 12, 2021)

It does ripen later, about the same as Cabs. I got a small harvest last year, first good Crop. Looks good so far this year but I haven't really checked closely.


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## Sage (Jul 13, 2021)

Merlot actually does the best here and is first to ripen. We had a very cold streak last winter, below 10. Didn't bother the Merlot at all and crop looks very good.


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## blueflint (Jul 13, 2021)

Do you know which Merlot clones you have? Which rootstocks?

Thanks


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## Sage (Jul 13, 2021)

Sorry, I do not. That was 11 years ago and I have lost track of the original sales slip. Just bought from a commercial grower and asked for vines suited for zone 5 and 2300 ft elevation. None of the vines I bought at the time were grafted.


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