# Looks like I wasted a small fortune on winemaking gear!



## RickD (Feb 3, 2021)

brewsy - make amazing wine & cider at home in 5 days (getbrewsy.com)


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## Johnd (Feb 3, 2021)

RickD said:


> brewsy - make amazing wine & cider at home in 5 days (getbrewsy.com)


Guess it won't be long before we see and influx of brewsy users asking a million questions about why their wine tastes bad, is fizzy, drops sediment in the bottles, etc...............you know the drill!!!


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## CDrew (Feb 3, 2021)

I have seen wine kits advertised with the same language. "Ready in a month" "Delicious wine" etc. So maybe it will get more people interested in the hobby. But I agree, it looks a lot like the people who were making wine in instapots a year ago have moved up to "brewsy".

I love how the #1 FAQ is "Is it gluten free?" That just says so much. Lol.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 3, 2021)

I'm sure they will find plenty of gullible folks out there Johnd. You know the old ways are dead -So say the kids with no clue and no patience. (Probably won't know the difference it they lost their sense of taste to the Virus.)


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## Darkroom (Feb 3, 2021)

but it says right in their ad "*we all know homemade is simply better – and it's true for wine and cider too.* "


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## ThunderFred (Feb 3, 2021)

Not everyone came to this hobby because a sainted grandpappy showed them the ropes. Lots of us had an interest and jumped in without a clue. That led to experiments, reading and even finding this website. Lots of folks will fall for the brewsey pitch and realize low grade prison toilet hooch is not really their jam. Some will leave it at that and others will come looking for more information on how to do better.


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## NorCal (Feb 3, 2021)

My Mom always said, if you don't have anything good to say.... Maybe it will get some people wanting to explore the hobby further and will find us.


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## BernardSmith (Feb 4, 2021)

I have to agree with NorCal. Brewsy is not for everyone and certainly not for many members of this forum and sure , the idea of making an exceptionally tasting wine in five days is laughable (unless by exceptional they may exceptionally poor) but some of us who bake bread over a few days look at others who turn out loaves in a two or three hours while others happily buy bread from the local supermarket that probably took considerably less time from start to packaging. It's not for me, but it might be for a friend.


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## JustJoe (Feb 4, 2021)

My first attempt at making wine turned out so bad that I dumped the whole thing and gave the carboy away. It took 15 years before I tried again. If brewsy had been available I could have discovered how bad it can be in much less time and it probably would have been better than what I made. I may have tried a better method right away rather than 15 years later.


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## NorCal (Feb 4, 2021)

This was my first attempt. ~$10 for yeast, nutrient, air bungs. Their box is $49? Oh, it was completely undrinkable, but I had no expectation. It did lead me here!


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## Scooter68 (Feb 4, 2021)

BernardSmith said:


> I have to agree with NorCal. Brewsy is not for everyone and certainly not for many members of this forum and sure , the idea of making an exceptionally tasting wine in five days is laughable (unless by exceptional they may exceptionally poor) but some of us who bake bread over a few days look at others who turn out loaves in a two or three hours while others happily buy bread from the local supermarket that probably took considerably less time from start to packaging. It's not for me, but it might be for a friend.



This dates me but.... I remember in grade school in San Antonio Texas they took us (3rd or 4th graders) to Rainbow Bread company (Later became Wonder Bread I think). They made that wonderful melt in your mouth white bread. (That was before that days of white bread being declared worthless calories) They walked us through showing how they mixed it let it rise, mixed again etc. According to what I remember even there at that time it pretty much took a full day. I imagine now they have "improved" their methods. 
Any my mother made a Norwegian Christmas bread called Yule Kaga (LARGE Raisins, Citron, Nutmeg & Cardamon) That was normally a start today finish in the morning affair. (I lost a lot of skin grating those nutmeg "Seeds" things that were about the size of a grape on her hand grater.) I still live for the first loaf of that. When it comes out of the oven. As a child in our family the first loaf never got to cool off. Slathered with butter and devoured. 
_*Ah but I digress and wander about with my memories.*_

Nothing will replace the processes we use. They can try all they want but yeast grows and works at it's own pace and wine ages again at it's own pace. Not to mention that grapes and fruit are a little different every year and vintner's who know their grapes have to adjust for those differences. 
Brewsy is just another gimmick to take money from the gullible and I know I've said that already but...


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## NoQuarter (Feb 4, 2021)

WOW. 44.99 for yeast (and 5 other ingredients).
You supply juice, sugar, tools etc.


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## cmason1957 (Feb 4, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Any my mother made a Norwegian Christmas bread called Yule Kaga (LARGE Raisins, Citron, Nutmeg & Cardamon) That was normally a start today finish in the morning affair. (I lost a lot of skin grating those nutmeg "Seeds" things that were about the size of a grape on her hand grater.) I still live for the first loaf of that. When it comes out of the oven. As a child in our family the first loaf never got to cool off. Slathered with butter and devoured.
> _*Ah but I digress and wander about with my memories.*_



My mother (being half German, half Norwegian, second generation in America on both sides) made a very similar bread Yula Kaka was the name she always said. I probably am spelling it incorrectly, I see there are recipes out there for julekake. Maybe I need to try some.


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## JohnT (Feb 4, 2021)

NorCal said:


> Oh, it was completely undrinkable, but I had no expectation. It did lead me here!
> 
> View attachment 71261



Read the label. it is self explanatory (LOL)!


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## Old Corker (Feb 4, 2021)

15 years ago or so (before moving to Texas) we lived in Lodi CA. Huge grape growing area and it seemed that everyone who had a few acres tried their hand at it. I had 5 acres and thought I would too. I went to the nursery to talk to the proprietor about buying some vines. He asked me what exactly I wanted to do. I told him that I eventually wanted to make wine and admitted that I knew nothing about it. He said if a want to make wine I could just wait until crush time and would be able to easily find all kinds of juice for sale to make wine with. He sent me home telling me to think about what I really wanted so I did that. On the way home I stopped at one of the many local wineries in the area and bought a few bottles. Making my own wine did not occur to me again until I moved to TX where you don't find great little wineries everywhere. So yes, we all start from somewhere and evolve...or not.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 4, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> My mother (being half German, half Norwegian, second generation in America on both sides) made a very similar bread Yula Kaka was the name she always said. I probably am spelling it incorrectly, I see there are recipes out there for jule kake. Maybe I need to try some.



Yeah - I went looking for the correct name and we always pronounced it the way you spell it but on all the sites appearing to genuine "Nordic" they spelled it Kaga or Kage. Go figure. If it tastes right you can call it what you want. (If you've ever seen the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding - there's a seen where the star as a little girl has her school 'friends' laugh when she pronounces the the name Moussaka - I cracked up because it's almost the same sound.)

I've had folks compare it to "Fruit Cake" I try not to snap at them since to me it's vastly different. And my mother almost lost it at a neighbor when she announced that she wanted the recipe because she loved it with Jelly and peanut butter. WOW ! To the moon Alice! Needless to say that neighbor got no more Yule Kaka and certainly never had any hope of even seeing the recipe.


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## Raptor99 (Feb 4, 2021)

My grandmother used to make Yule Kaka. It was one of our favorite Christmas treats. She also made a fruitcake that was mostly fruit, with only enough dough to hold it together. Then she soaked it in rum for about 2 months. It was awesome, nothing like the dried up bricks they sell in the stores. I generally refrain from telling anyone that I liked my grandmothers fruitcake because I don't want them to give me those awful bricks. Please note: real fruitcake is mostly fruit and is soaked in rum. No commercial fruitcake I have ever tasted even comes close.


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## Mead Maker (Feb 4, 2021)

I hope one of our experienced winemakers with $50 to spare will try a Brewsy kit and report back to us 5 days later. 

It sounds like a pile of manure.


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## ThunderFred (Feb 4, 2021)

Mead maker, just chuck some turbo yeast into a jug of gape juice and tell us how it goes. Save $49.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 4, 2021)

ThunderFred said:


> Mead maker, just chuck some turbo yeast into a jug of gape juice and tell us how it goes. Save $49.


I've heard that there is enough yeast in the air that if you crack the top on a bottle of grape juice or apple cider, wave over it a few times and then let it sit for a couple of weeks with the top on loosely - Presto - Wine/Hard Cider.

In fact in church there have been couple of times when the communion grape juice became wine, much to the surprise of the congregation on a Sunday morning. Kids reveled in their consumption of wine in CHURCH and the faces were funny as folks looked around to see how many others notices. Of course if you didn't notice you were a suspected tee-totaler.


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## bstnh1 (Feb 5, 2021)

NoQuarter said:


> WOW. 44.99 for yeast (and 5 other ingredients).
> You supply juice, sugar, tools etc.


Yes, but you get fantastic wine or cider in just 5 days!!! It says so right in their ad.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 5, 2021)

I browsed the Brewsy site and searched for reviews, and also looked for corporate information. It appears to be an LLC registered in New Orleans, LA in October 2020. They have leveraged social media and a lot of sites (paid shills?) are advertising them.

*This review* in entertaining -- I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read the following, else my laptop would be wearing it.

The Punch. Right off the bat, I knew the punch was going to be rough, just from how it smelled. When I poured it into a glass, it reeked of what seemed to be Hawaiian Punch and literal shit. As for the taste, it wasn’t quite as bad as it smelled, but it wasn’t much better — it was like a really bad punch you’d find spiked at a party for college kids. I cannot recommend this any less.

One thing jumped out at me -- the "wine" ferments to 15% ABV in 3 days, then it's refrigerated. What is in the "Brewsy Pack" that produces that rate of fermentation? I'm going to keep watching for news to see if Brewsy buyers start glowing in the dark or sprouting tentacles.

There is a return policy for unopened boxes, but no returns if the box is opened. Which makes perfect sense, as even a 5% return rate would bankrupt them.

I don't expect the company to last more than a year. Folks that want instant hooch may be happy with it, but anyone expecting even a $10 bottle equivalent from it will be sadly disappointed. It will be a one-and-done for most buyers.

OTOH, I expect the owners will make a fair amount of money in that year.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 5, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> OTOH, I expect the owners will make a fair amount of money in that year.



can’t knock the hustle.


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## BernardSmith (Feb 5, 2021)

I wonder if the yeast and nutrients included are what are called "turbo" yeasts. Those packages are used by those who brew beer and make wine as raw material for another process about which we cannot speak on this forum, and those "turbo" yeasts are said to ferment brut dry in a couple or three days but then those that use them carbon filter their "wash" or "mash" to remove all the off flavors that that yeast produce, and presumably, all the flavors, too.


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## Old Corker (Feb 5, 2021)

View attachment 71313






DIY My Wine Co - Everything you need to master at-home winemaking.


Everything you need to master at-home winemaking. DIY My Wine Co.™ — the all-in-one wine making kit, deliciously fun way to make and enjoy quality wine.




diymywine.com




Label Peelers is also carrying this product. Although they seem to currently be out of stock for both offerings from this company. I did not look for instructions but from the description is appears to be a kit form of box wine. 4L of finished product for $29.


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## 7munkee (Feb 5, 2021)

I have let some of my tomatoes get drippy ripe on the vine before and they fermented a bit, so yah...there is always that.


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## G259 (Feb 5, 2021)

You get what you pay for, don't expect more, but if you get it or more, let us all know.


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## b7labelle (Feb 6, 2021)

Wow, what an interesting and welcoming thread. I’m a little surprised to read this here to be honest.

Brewsy is a great option for those with no background in wine making. It’s not going to win awards, but I got a box for Christmas and I enjoyed the process. I had a lot of fun with my wife making a few gallons of wine and honestly didn’t taste terrible at all. Not sure what happened to the other persons wine.

Would I recommend it existing wine makers? No, of course not. Is it a great introduction to wine making? Obviously.

That kit turned me into wine making, and now I have invested a few hundred into proper equipment and have just moved my first batch into the secondary a few days ago. You should take the opportunity to grow your community and hobby by welcoming people who come asking questions.


As for the ‘is it gluten free’ comments, I am gluten intolerant and am sure as hell not eating anything or dumping mystery powders (brewsy bags) into my drinks without vetting their ingredients first. If you know what the consequences are of injecting gluten are, then you get it, if not, like is miserable. My body breaks out in terribly itchy rashes and it’s so bad I can’t even sleep. Gluten makes its way into many things, hell even meat. The boneless chicken at the store used to have a broth injected to make them look plumper. The broth itself contained a small amount of flour.


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## RickD (Feb 6, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> There is a return policy for unopened boxes, but no returns if the box is opened. Which makes perfect sense, as even a 5% return rate would bankrupt them.
> 
> OTOH, I expect the owners will make a fair amount of money in that year.



Not sure about that part ! Given pricing and what you get, I'm thinking they have a monstrous margin in there!

I remember when I was in college. Alcohol could be pretty hard to come by sometimes if you were under 21. I'm pretty sure I would have tried it.


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## crushday (Feb 6, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> My mother (being half German, half Norwegian, second generation in America on both sides) made a very similar bread Yula Kaka was the name she always said. I probably am spelling it incorrectly, I see there are recipes out there for julekake. Maybe I need to try some.


Hey, Craig. You mentioned in a previous post a week or two that you were born in Montana. What part? I lived in Montana for 28 years, raised my family there and my wife is a 5th generation Montanan. We still own a home there and a cabin.


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## NorCal (Feb 6, 2021)

b7labelle said:


> Wow, what an interesting and welcoming thread. I’m a little surprised to read this here to be honest.
> 
> Brewsy is a great option for those with no background in wine making. It’s not going to win awards, but I got a box for Christmas and I enjoyed the process. I had a lot of fun with my wife making a few gallons of wine and honestly didn’t taste terrible at all. Not sure what happened to the other persons wine.
> 
> ...


This site is very welcoming and none of the comments made were toward the people buying the kit, rather the company selling the kit. The claims they make, like “in just a few days, turn any juice into delicious wine or cider.” sets an expectation that will only lead to $49 worth of disappointment. 
We hope some of them get the wine bug, gravitate to forums like this, with very welcoming and helpful people that will give them good advice and realistic expectations.


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## Riledup5 (Feb 6, 2021)

b7labelle said:


> Wow, what an interesting and welcoming thread. I’m a little surprised to read this here to be honest.
> 
> Brewsy is a great option for those with no background in wine making. It’s not going to win awards, but I got a box for Christmas and I enjoyed the process. I had a lot of fun with my wife making a few gallons of wine and honestly didn’t taste terrible at all. Not sure what happened to the other persons wine.
> 
> ...


Hi there Labelle! I am new to winemaking (have my 1st 3 batches in process). This community has been nothing short of amazing in welcoming new people who come asking questions. I have felt welcome since joining a month ago. If you don't mind me saying, these people are fantastic to new people and have a wealth of information that they share freely. Someday, I hope to be as helpful as they are.


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## crushday (Feb 6, 2021)

NorCal said:


> This site is very welcoming and none of the comments made were toward the people buying the kit, rather the company selling the kit. The claims they make, like “in just a few days, turn any juice into delicious wine or cider.” sets an expectation that will only lead to $49 worth of disappointment.
> We hope some of them get the wine bug, gravitate to forums like this, with very welcoming and helpful people that will give them good advice and realistic expectations.


That's right, @NorCal - hear, hear...


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## Ajmassa (Feb 6, 2021)

b7labelle said:


> Wow, what an interesting and welcoming thread. I’m a little surprised to read this here to be honest.
> 
> Brewsy is a great option for those with no background in wine making. It’s not going to win awards, but I got a box for Christmas and I enjoyed the process. I had a lot of fun with my wife making a few gallons of wine and honestly didn’t taste terrible at all. Not sure what happened to the other persons wine.
> 
> ...



1st post and comin in hot! lol

Welcome to WMT. what type of wine are you making?


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## Scooter68 (Feb 6, 2021)

When I started out this kit was $49.xx and while not complete with a few other essentials, I consider it to be a better product simply because the booklet that came with it provided enough information to get started along with some basic recipes. Now it's a bit more but then that was 5 years ago.



https://www.amazon.com/Master-Vintner-Harvest-Gallon-Homemade/dp/B00W3PZ4RY/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=country+wine+making+kit&qid=1612639563&s=home-garden&sr=1-9


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## winemaker81 (Feb 6, 2021)

b7labelle said:


> Would I recommend it existing wine makers? No, of course not. Is it a great introduction to wine making? Obviously.


It would be great if Brewsy brought more people into our hobby. As others have expressed, my concern is for the numbers of people who will be disappointed in the result. Anyone who buys it and likes the result? Cool!

This is the friendliest forum I have ever visited. Newbies are treated well, and no question -- no matter how many times it's already been answered -- is ignored.

BTW, I sent the link to my son. His reply: *Oh dear god no*


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## cmason1957 (Feb 6, 2021)

crushday said:


> Hey, Craig. You mentioned in a previous post a week or two that you were born in Montana. What part? I lived in Montana for 28 years, raised my family there and my wife is a 5th generation Montanan. We still own a home there and a cabin.


 Pm sent, no need to jump that far off track in this thread.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 6, 2021)

Some people learn 3 chords and are content with knowing 1 or 2 songs. Some learn 3 chords then are determined to become a virtuoso. I’m all for a simplified version of winemaking marketed to normies. 
Will surely be an on-ramp to the hobby for many. Because any winemaking question typed into google usually directs you here. 


But am i the only slightly irked at the name? You brew beer. And coffee. 
NOT wine!


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## CDrew (Feb 6, 2021)

"we blended together six previously inaccessible winemaking ingredients to make each magical brewsy bag."

There are some gems on the Brewsy website. They do list the 6 magic ingredients:

"Amazing" yeast
Organic Micronutrients (sounds like Go-Ferm + Fermaid O)
Bentonite
Pectic Enzyme
KBicarb (this is an odd one)
Malolactic culture

So I don't object to the ingredients, just the breathless, exaggerated, over-hyped nature of the marketing. Just me, but these seem like pretty normal wine making ingredients. Looks like about $3 worth or less. Notably absent is any sulfite. So you should make this and drink it quick. What's odd to me about this is the Malolactic culture. That fermentation takes awhile and so including it wine you're supposed to drink in 5 days is odd, especially if you don't know if you juice even contains any Malic acid.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 6, 2021)

CDrew said:


> "we blended together six previously inaccessible winemaking ingredients to make each magical brewsy bag."
> 
> There are some gems on the Brewsy website. They do list the 6 magic ingredients:
> 
> ...



Sounds like they are trying to use a lot of buzzwords that will attrack someone who's done just a little bit of reading on wine making.

And I agree the Name is incongruous with wine fermentation.


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## hounddawg (Feb 7, 2021)

an old horseman once told me the difference between a horseman and a horse-trader (spit) it was if you say it fast enough it will sound good,,,, me i go my own way, and respect all others choices,,, 
To Each Their Own,,,
Dawg


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## BernardSmith (Feb 7, 2021)

Could be a kveik yeast. Not actually used one myself but it seems that they thrive in any temperature AND you can harvest them with ease and dry them.
Have no idea what kind of fruit this kit is set up to make but even if malic fermentation typically takes a few weeks or months to complete, it can take off immediately (depending on the bacterium) and even if it has not ended by the time you come to bottle it will have added some lactic and removed some malic AND may result in a petillant wine. For many people that may viewed as an added attraction. 
The lack of SO2 may be deliberate if they have added malic eating bacteria AND they likely already added the K-meta to the juice.If their time table is even close then they may argue that there is no need to add more at bottling. 
I guess my position is that not everyone who wants to try making wine is wanting to make a $100 a bottle wine. They just may want to see whether they CAN make a wine and if they can whether that wine tastes OK. And for some folk , perhaps many, an OK home made wine may be just what the doctor ordered.


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## heatherd (Feb 7, 2021)

CDrew said:


> "we blended together six previously inaccessible winemaking ingredients to make each magical brewsy bag."
> 
> There are some gems on the Brewsy website. They do list the 6 magic ingredients:
> 
> ...


I think its directly targeted toward young folks, based on looking at the website. Very reassuring and welcoming. Those ingredients are not inaccessible though.


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## RickD (Feb 7, 2021)

BernardSmith said:


> . ..And for some folk , perhaps many, an OK home made wine may be just what the doctor ordered...



Very well said. 

"Hard times demand strong spirits" (*Steven Ray Tickle*)


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## winemanden (Feb 12, 2021)

Trouble is, loads of people, especially the younger generation, have got the attitude "I want it and I want it now". Can't really blame Companies if they cater to their needs. When all's said and done, they're in the business of making money not wine.


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## Bohunter (Mar 9, 2021)

Many of the comments in this post might be a little discouraging to a beginning Brewster. Seems everyone here started out at the top of the heap instead of the bottom! How’d you all do that??


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## BernardSmith (Mar 9, 2021)

Hi Bohunter - and welcome. Don't know that I would agree. I think many of us on this forum (and I will certainly speak for myself) would argue that no one should ever spend a great deal more money on wine making equipment than they pay for the ingredients and that you can start with a 2 gallon food grade bucket and a 1 gallon carboy, some tubing, a bung, an airlock, and an hydrometer and you would probably get change from $40. You might want some bottles and some caps or corks to close the bottles and a tool to cork or cap the bottles. If you find that you enjoy making that first gallon (about 5 bottles) and want to make more then you have the equipment. If you not only want to make more batches but want to make larger batches - say 5 or 6 gallons then you can purchase larger buckets and larger carboys but if you focus on making one gallon batches for a period until you have mastered the processes then you can simply purchase a few 2 gallon buckets and a few single gallon carboys and you can make a different batch of wine every week. Your supermarket has frozen berries and frozen fruit picked at peak of freshness and ripeness and in season there are farmers markets and orchards and farms that let you harvest the fruit you buy. 

That said, if your desire is to make grape wine and you want to buy kits then most kits are based on 5 or 6 gallons (25 or 30 bottles) and you will need to start with the larger size fermenters (buckets and carboys). BUT I would always argue that it does not make very much sense to spend a lot of money on equipment if you don't know how interested you will be in this hobby in six months or in a year. And to get into this hobby you can start with nothing because wine making is not about the equipment. It's about the process, the ingredients and it's about the patience needed to make wine because wine making is not engineering. It's more like child raising or gardening. You really can start with no equipment except a mason jar from your kitchen and make far better wine (if you know what you are doing) than someone who spends $500 on a stainless steel conical fermenter fitted with wireless thermometers and hydrometers.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 9, 2021)

Bohunter said:


> Many of the comments in this post might be a little discouraging to a beginning Brewster. Seems everyone here started out at the top of the heap instead of the bottom! How’d you all do that??



Welcome, Bohunter!

I have a different take than you do. I see the comments above as repudiating the idea that you can buy (for the low, low price of $49.99!) your way to the top of the heap. Instead, we recognize that we all had to start at the bottom, and to learn our way up. The comments reflect the idea that there are no shortcuts, that Brewsy makes a false promise.

I largely agree with Bernard: The most important thing is to have good ingredients, and develop sufficient knowledge and experience not to screw them up!


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## Scooter68 (Mar 10, 2021)

I started out with a $50.00 kit (No Juice just the hardware and Additives) I had to supply my own juice (Homegrown Blueberries for batch 1) I then found I need a bit more hardware and started piecing together over the years to what I have today. My kit had an excellent wine making booklet that wet my appetite to learn and I did a lot of research. That kit did not try to over-simplfy the process and simply laid it all out for you to learn.

Now - My batches are 1 or 3 gallons typically and I certainly still have much to learn after 5 1/2 years of this. 

As already mentioned many of us started out slowly with small kits or limited hardware but we learned quickly what it would take to reliably make good wine.

What you are seeing is a reaction to an advertisement that will NOT do anyone much good and certainly is more likely to lead to dissappointment than success and encouragement to get deeper into the hobby. There is no Ronco-matic wine making kit that will help a person get started and that is essentially what this advertisement presents itself to be. The advertised kit might be better than taking a bottle of apple juice, opening it, putting a ballon over the top and waiting 4 weeks ........ but not much better.


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## ASR (Mar 10, 2021)

I started with a full 1-gallon kit that was equipment and juice. It was on sale for $79 (online but that provider has since closed down). My first supplement to that was to buy a second gallon carboy (so inexpensive I dont even recall what it costs). That investment allowed me to make several kits (one at a time). I bought bottles/corks as needed. I have gone on to 5 gallon batches, but the same equipment from the one-gallon kit is still being used.


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## Paulietivo (Mar 10, 2021)

There's only one place I can think of that brewsy 5 day wine would be amazing. That place is called Prison.


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## BernardSmith (Mar 10, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> The advertised kit might be better than taking a bottle of apple juice, opening it, putting a ballon over the top and waiting 4 weeks ........ but not much better.



But in fact, if you can obtain a good bottle of apple juice (one made from apples pressed by an orchard that supplies apples to (hard) cider makers, then you can make a great apple cider or a delightful apple wine from that juice and using that container. AND if you cannot locate such a supplier (we have a number not far from here), then you can make a very drinkable apple cider (drinkable, not wonderful) simply using Mott's apple juice (if you add tannin and malic acid. But you don't even need to buy a carboy to do so... and this is the way I taught my son how to make his first wine. His second was Skeeter Pee (and for pennies a bottle, that makes an incredible fun wine.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 10, 2021)

Bohunter said:


> Many of the comments in this post might be a little discouraging to a beginning Brewster. Seems everyone here started out at the top of the heap instead of the bottom! How’d you all do that??


My first wine was rhubarb, picked from the neighbor's garden, fermented in a used beer ball with bread yeast. I didn't have a siphon hose so I carefully poured the "wine" off the sludge into a bucket, and from there into screwcap quart whiskey bottles ... I had no idea what metabisulfite was, but I did scrub everything with soap and water.
 

I follow the Beginner's forum, and pay a lot of attention to the newbies. Most start out small, they acquired fruit of some sort and asking either "how to do it" or "how to fix it"? Less common is the folks that jump in head first -- IIRC, a newcomer recently started with a 70 gallon batch -- that's far braver than me!



sour_grapes said:


> I have a different take than you do. I see the comments above as repudiating the idea that you can buy (for the low, low price of $49.99!) your way to the top of the heap. Instead, we recognize that we all had to start at the bottom, and to learn our way up. The comments reflect the idea that there are no shortcuts, that Brewsy makes a false promise.


Paul says it best.


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## Scooter68 (Mar 10, 2021)

This was where I started. Lot more equipment needed to be added, but; the additives AND most of all that little booklet, is what got me off in the right direction. The booklet answered a lot of questions and spurred me to investigate more but that was my starting point.


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## NorCal (Mar 10, 2021)

Bohunter said:


> Many of the comments in this post might be a little discouraging to a beginning Brewster. Seems everyone here started out at the top of the heap instead of the bottom! How’d you all do that??


 My start was making completely undrinkable jail-house Welches, circa 2013. It did however give me a bug and the start of reading / studying / exploring every aspect possible. I am fortunate is that I have a science background and live in an excellent wine making region.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 10, 2021)

Bohunter said:


> Many of the comments in this post might be a little discouraging to a beginning Brewster. Seems everyone here started out at the top of the heap instead of the bottom! How’d you all do that??



Luckily no ‘beginning Brewster’ will ever read it. Because once a Brewsy winemaker googles a question and reads info on a winemaking forum—— they are no longer a Brewsy winemaker, contradicting the entire brewsy mission statement. 
To these people i would say- Welcome! By reading this you have surpassed the ‘just add this bag & get drunk in 5 days!” stage’ of your winemaking career.


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## BernardSmith (Mar 10, 2021)

Ha! I guess we all tend to be "elitists" here. We make and drink wine for the pleasure it gives us and those with whom we share our wine but that pleasure is rather more than (or even other than) the "adolescent" buzz that some folk who "brew" alcohol seek. We make wine because we enjoy the taste and the aroma and the camaraderie that wine drinking creates, and we enjoy the creativity of taking fruit with a very short shelf life and turning it into something very different with a shelf life of years with the help of a tiny fungus.


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## MHSKIBUM (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm about to try to make wine from fresh juice for the first time after making a dozen wine kits. My understanding is that the fresh juice naturally contains all the yeast that's needed. It speaks to the quote by Martin Luther: 'Beer is made by men, wine by God.' Left on its own, grapes and other fruit become wine. Beer has to be brewed.


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## MHSKIBUM (Mar 18, 2021)

I was fortunate to have an experienced home winemaker to mentor me and lend me some equipment for my first batch. Thereafter I bought most of my equipment used via Kijiji. I bought my first five carboys, bungs, and various tubing from a person who stopped making wine. Facebook has 'Buy Nothing' groups in almost every neighbourhood. I ask for empty wine bottles (non screw top) and have received more than 4 cases of them for free.


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## BernardSmith (Mar 18, 2021)

But juice ain't fresh grapes and grapes themselves may carry many different yeasts only some of which might produce a wine that you and others may enjoy. which is why most - most wine makers who ferment grapes chemically remove all the wild yeasts and add the cultured yeasts that they know will produce a wine that they will enjoy. 
Juice may have the added problem that whoever expressed the juice from the fruit (grapes? apples? berries? plums? ) likely removed all the indigenous yeasts either by chemical means or by pasteurization (heat or UV) to be able to ship and sell the juice without it fermenting and turning into wine and possibly vinegar while it is still in storage. If you expressed the juice then it likely does have wild yeasts but you should know that not only are indigenous yeasts not necessarily going to make the wine that you prefer but whereas alcohol is in fact toxic to all yeasts, wild yeasts are not nearly as tolerant of alcohol poisoning as lab cultured yeast and they may conk out when forced to exist in a solution that is 5 % alcohol. Lab cultured yeasts are cultured from cells that over the centuries can thrive in solutions of 12 - 16% ABV (alcohol by volume) and most people look for wine at about 10 -12% ABV. In short, if you have juice you may want to remove all the wild yeast by adding K-meta per instructions and then waiting 24 hours before pitching (adding) some lab cultured yeast.


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## hounddawg (Mar 18, 2021)

MHSKIBUM said:


> I'm about to try to make wine from fresh juice for the first time after making a dozen wine kits. My understanding is that the fresh juice naturally contains all the yeast that's needed. It speaks to the quote by Martin Luther: 'Beer is made by men, wine by God.' Left on its own, grapes and other fruit become wine. Beer has to be brewed.


in Europe they have good wild yeast, in USA not so much, so it is better with fresh fruits , concentrates and juices to k-meta 24 hours before to kill wild yeast and use a known good wine yeast, wild yeast in the USA it's a gamble between a good wine and a ruff wine, so we tend to kill any wild yeast and use our different favorite yeasts, i keep only 2 yeasts, EC-1118 & K1V-1116 but i only do country wines and no grapes, 
Dawg


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## Ajmassa (Mar 18, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> in Europe they have good wild yeast, in USA not so much, so it is better with fresh fruits , concentrates and juices to k-meta 24 hours before to kill wild yeast and use a known good wine yeast, wild yeast in the USA it's a gamble between a good wine and a ruff wine, so we tend to kill any wild yeast and use our different favorite yeasts, i keep only 2 yeasts, EC-1118 & K1V-1116 but i only do country wines and no grapes,
> Dawg


Agree here. with you and @Rice_Guy. And best option is adding your own yeast. 
But it’s also not crazy crucial either. At least not with the juice buckets i get. @MHSKIBUM is right in that it will ferment on its own. Even though they don’t contain any added cultured yeast -allegedly*- for whatever reason the buckets will quickly take off like gangbusters and ferment dry on their own. Red buckets are normally balanced to 1.090 starting SG. When they began fermenting on their own i have just let them go. i did this twice. Both went under 1.000 sg

Not saying to do this- but you _could_ theoretically simply leave the lid on tight (they have an air escape rubber valve on them) leave the bucket in the corner of the basement and completely forget about it for a year —and still end up with half decent wine. simply doing nothing. 

You could also end up with trash too. lol. And this is why we do things to reduce risk and increase our odds of making better wine.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 18, 2021)

I agree with @BernardSmith . I am not sure I would take winemaking advice from Martin Luther; I doubt he worked with commercial juice buckets.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 19, 2021)

@MHSKIBUM, another advantage of cultured wine yeasts is they are sulfite tolerant, so when you dose the must with K-meta, it will kill or stunt the wild yeasts and bacteria, but not affect the cultured yeast. In addition, a lot of cultured wine yeasts have a "killer factor" in that they kill off their competition, which helps ensure nothing else grows.

Following on from what @hounddawg said, I suspect the highly successful wineries of Europe gained their fame not only from the quality of their grapes (which depends on climate, soil, etc) and the winemaker's knowhow, but from luck of the draw. The yeast that grows in their vineyards produces more pleasing aromas and flavors than their less successful neighbors. I read an article recently that said the very wood of these old wineries is embedded with their native yeast, so pasteurized juice -- if placed in the winery -- would become inoculated with the native yeast.

I have no idea what yeast grows in the vineyards my grapes come from. Being risk adverse, I spend the $0.75 to $1.25 USD to eliminate one risk.


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## BernardSmith (Mar 19, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> in Europe they have good wild yeast, in USA not so much, so it is better with fresh fruits , concentrates and juices to k-meta 24 hours before to kill wild yeast and use a known good wine yeast, wild yeast in the USA it's a gamble between a good wine and a ruff wine, so we tend to kill any wild yeast and use our different favorite yeasts, i keep only 2 yeasts, EC-1118 & K1V-1116 but i only do country wines and no grapes,
> Dawg



I am not sure I agree, hounddawg. There are a number of wineries in the US that aim for what is now being called "natural wines" and that means , among other things that they use only indigenous yeast to ferment their grapes, and my son at this time loves to look for such wines. 

BUT the thing is that while those wine makers are happy to risk everything every harvest to produce delightful wines they fully understand and control the risks they are taking AND they KNOW that the yeasts that cover their fruit and cover their crushers and fermenters are yeasts that they are happy with. Which is to say that wild yeasts in the US are no worse and no better than the yeasts that are in Europe BUT these wine makers know precisely the risks they take and they know that some years they will have nothing to sell because the yeast they have and the fruit they or others have grown are a poor match for each other and the wine the yeast produced is not even second rate... BUT if they've been wine making for years and they have barrels of wine aging for years then one barrel from year X blended with one barrel from year Y might in fact make a wine that beats hands down a wine made in year Z.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 19, 2021)

Now I'm wondering if grape growers can "seed" their vineyard with a desired yeast, rather than using blind luck?

I suspect that "natural fermentation" is a good marketing strategy (assuming, of course, they get a good strain of yeast).


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## hounddawg (Mar 19, 2021)

BernardSmith said:


> I am not sure I agree, hounddawg. There are a number of wineries in the US that aim for what is now being called "natural wines" and that means , among other things that they use only indigenous yeast to ferment their grapes, and my son at this time loves to look for such wines.
> 
> BUT the thing is that while those wine makers are happy to risk everything every harvest to produce delightful wines they fully understand and control the risks they are taking AND they KNOW that the yeasts that cover their fruit and cover their crushers and fermenters are yeasts that they are happy with. Which is to say that wild yeasts in the US are no worse and no better than the yeasts that are in Europe BUT these wine makers know precisely the risks they take and they know that some years they will have nothing to sell because the yeast they have and the fruit they or others have grown are a poor match for each other and the wine the yeast produced is not even second rate... BUT if they've been wine making for years and they have barrels of wine aging for years then one barrel from year X blended with one barrel from year Y might in fact make a wine that beats hands down a wine made in year Z.


that could be true, especially after using good yeasts for years, but in the south not so much, NOW ON YOUR (BUT IF) I say this on if's,,, if butterflies wore 45's then the birds would not mess with them, and that is what a IF is,,,,
Dawg,


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## Scooter68 (Mar 19, 2021)

Of course it's each person's choice to decide what source their yeast will come from. The thing I would say is that for a newbie starting out, that's a high risk proposition unless they just want to "roll the dice." Personally I would never recommend a beginner to try that unless they have money to burn and someone to coach them on how to select their grape sources to get the best odds of a successful ferment. 
Yeast is not that expensive in the grand scheme of things and I'd bet that the average home wine maker would prefer to have better than 50/50 odds of a successful fermentation.


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## sluff (Mar 21, 2021)

BernardSmith said:


> Ha! I guess we all tend to be "elitists" here. We make and drink wine for the pleasure it gives us and those with whom we share our wine but that pleasure is rather more than (or even other than) the "adolescent" buzz that some folk who "brew" alcohol seek. We make wine because we enjoy the taste and the aroma and the camaraderie that wine drinking creates, and we enjoy the creativity of taking fruit with a very short shelf life and turning it into something very different with a shelf life of years with the help of a tiny fungus.


We'll put!


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## hounddawg (Mar 21, 2021)

BernardSmith said:


> I am not sure I agree, hounddawg. There are a number of wineries in the US that aim for what is now being called "natural wines" and that means , among other things that they use only indigenous yeast to ferment their grapes, and my son at this time loves to look for such wines.
> 
> BUT the thing is that while those wine makers are happy to risk everything every harvest to produce delightful wines they fully understand and control the risks they are taking AND they KNOW that the yeasts that cover their fruit and cover their crushers and fermenters are yeasts that they are happy with. Which is to say that wild yeasts in the US are no worse and no better than the yeasts that are in Europe BUT these wine makers know precisely the risks they take and they know that some years they will have nothing to sell because the yeast they have and the fruit they or others have grown are a poor match for each other and the wine the yeast produced is not even second rate... BUT if they've been wine making for years and they have barrels of wine aging for years then one barrel from year X blended with one barrel from year Y might in fact make a wine that beats hands down a wine made in year Z.


i should of said in Arkansas
Dawg


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## Rex Taylor (Mar 22, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> i should of said in Arkansas
> Dawg


Synergy?


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## hounddawg (Mar 22, 2021)

yep one can start with very little, and then grow into it, if interested in wine crafting
Dawg


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## Paul Gardner (Apr 14, 2021)

ThunderFred said:


> Not everyone came to this hobby because a sainted grandpappy showed them the ropes. Lots of us had an interest and jumped in without a clue. That led to experiments, reading and even finding this website. Lots of folks will fall for the brewsey pitch and realize low grade prison toilet hooch is not really their jam. Some will leave it at that and others will come looking for more information on how to do better.


I like your comment. Today's generation AND its immediate predecessor know very little about patience. I'm 74 and just learning what it takes to make a good wine. I'm ready to bottle my first attempt that I made from my own Niagara grapes. I'll see if this old duffer has paid attention to what I've been taught.


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## hounddawg (Apr 14, 2021)

Paul Gardner said:


> I like your comment. Today's generation AND its immediate predecessor know very little about patience. I'm 74 and just learning what it takes to make a good wine. I'm ready to bottle my first attempt that I made from my own Niagara grapes. I'll see if this old duffer has paid attention to what I've been taught.


Amen
Dawg


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## Iridal (Apr 19, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> Luckily no ‘beginning Brewster’ will ever read it. Because once a Brewsy winemaker googles a question and reads info on a winemaking forum—— they are no longer a Brewsy winemaker, contradicting the entire brewsy mission statement.
> To these people i would say- Welcome! By reading this you have surpassed the ‘just add this bag & get drunk in 5 days!” stage’ of your winemaking career.



First post here ever - this is me. I bought Brewsy. I've done 3 batches so far and I bought a bunch of extra packets. I enjoy it. However, I bought it as an easy button knowing it would take more than 5 days, but it would give me a way to get in to it as a baby step. I want to learn more! After I go through my last 6 packets I don't know I'll get more... or maybe I will get some traditional stuff and do a comparison. There are some more experienced members in the Brewsy group that do partake in the traditional process, and they seem to say there is "something" up with the formulation that makes it an interesting addition to their arsenal. But those folks aren't doing it in 5 days, they're adding a bunch of stuff.

Even for my first batch I didn't do it in 5 days, I don't think that would have been good at all.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 19, 2021)

@Iridal, welcome to WMT!

It's interesting that you're not making it in 5 days, and that folks in your group are making additions. 

Put a bottle of each batch aside for 6 months and make a comparison. I recommend to all beginners to write down impressions at each tasting, and later compare notes.

Another idea -- purchase some 100% juice and use a normal wine yeast with the "normal" wine making process. I'd like to see your comments regarding a comparison in 6 to 9 months.


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## Iridal (Apr 19, 2021)

@winemaker81 Yes! I think I'm going to make a comparison eventually. I'm kinda using Brewsy to do quicker batches, get some cause/effect experience with flavors, etc. Yeah the packets are more expensive than buying the stuff individually, but its not exactly cost prohibitive so I didn't mind. I found it mentally easier to tackle the process first, then the ingredients later.... I also didn't go in to it with any illusions that this would taste like store bought (grape) wine. Personally that was never my goal, other people do that and I enjoy what they've created haha. I wanted to make fun flavors of stuff I can't find in other places. So my expectations fit in with the Brewsy model.

I found my way to this forum because I'm trying to understand the overall process, and where Brewsy may differ. Or maybe it doesn't really differ its just accelerated. They keep it really simple but it seems extra steps are obviously needed to make it taste anywhere near good.

Edit to add - yes folks in the group are making additions and/or adjusting the process. the TL;DR on it seems to be yes it CAN ferment that fast. But if you want the actual 11 - 15% it won't be that fast. And aging is a thing you can't speed up. Even Brewsy admits that as you dig in to their stuff.


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## sour_grapes (Apr 19, 2021)

Welcome to WMT, @Iridal . I appreciate hearing the thoughts and persepectives of one who got started on Brewsy.


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## Sidewalker603 (Jun 2, 2021)

@Paul Gardner 

"I like your comment. Today's generation AND its immediate predecessor know very little about patience. I'm 74 and just learning what it takes to make a good wine. I'm ready to bottle my first attempt that I made from my own Niagara grapes. I'll see if this old duffer has paid attention to what I've been taught."

Patience is catering to Boomers at a Dunk's, in your mid thirties, for twelve dollars an hour and raising a toddler by yourself as a schizophrenic alcoholic with PTSD; lots of details in the latter, but they come organically as opposed to the rigid, authoritarian details of the Dunk's machine. It's that trial and error of the beginning; organic, playing it by ear, sometimes in uncharted waters.
I like coming at life like that, and making mead is no exception. That's why I call my yield "Ghetto Mead". All materials bought with food stamps. The guitar analogy further back is pretty close. Can I perfect my ghetto mead to taste better than Chaucer or Viking Blod? I definitely got the bug. You get better at a thing when you do it over and over again, and if you're gonna fail to produce Moonlight Meadery quality on your second try, you might as well fail with style. Can I do with mead what I did with guitar? Can I knock the socks off an entire bar with mead in a plastic spring-water jug marked "Ghetto Mead" with a sharpie? I can get a room full of drunk people singing and dancing to three chords because I tempered them into something more with practice. 

Regarding Brewsy; well, they didn't sell me on the duration of fermentation, it was probably the colors, the marketing language, and some alleged Brewsy community. It sells itself as a party in a box, and I guess I'll see if it's palatable enough for a guy who lived off Steel Reserve, Natty Daddys, and MD 20/20.
The process is very much like techniques I learned from people who did time lol
I got a wine with my meads, so I guess I'll find out. I honestly thought I was going to have to ferment for six weeks until I read up on it more. Now *there's* a pretty crucial detail I missed.

A question I can't get off my mind though: what happens if I ferment the mead with Brewsy for the conventional duration? 
I guess I'll see how my wine turned out the Brewsy way, and use the three airlocks for future endeavors. Mostly mead. Experiment with different yeast, honey, etc al.
Brewsy? Well it was on a good discount, so I figured I'd give it a shot, maybe learn some things that I could apply to other ingredients. 
I'll be sure to give both the wine and the mead a review here. Youse all need a review from the world of people who could only afford Gallo, Kendal Jackson, Francia, and the like. The people who give a heartfelt comparison to Pabst Blue Ribbon and Narragansett. I wonder if Brewsy can do barley wine lol


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## Adultapplejuice (Jan 4, 2022)

Johnd said:


> Guess it won't be long before we see and influx of brewsy users asking a million questions about why their wine tastes bad, is fizzy, drops sediment in the bottles, etc...............you know the drill!!!


Hello, I am one of the people who got a brewsy kit and just made my second batch with it. Happened to be googling some recipes and this thread came up. Personally my first batch was just apple juice and white sugar and honestly it was good. It got better with time and my only regret is that the last cup I had tasted the best by far. Next time I would leave it to sit longer. Even though it says on their websites home page it only takes 5 days, in every recipe on their app it says drastically different times depending on the recipe, and they do emphasize in all of their instructions to taste and leave it for longer until it is fully fermented, so I don't think people are under the impression it'll be absolutely ready to drink in 5 days. I wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for brewsy making it accessible and easy to make my first home made alcoholic beverage, and I am happy with what I paid for the introduction.


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## hounddawg (Jan 4, 2022)

Adultapplejuice said:


> Hello, I am one of the people who got a brewsy kit and just made my second batch with it. Happened to be googling some recipes and this thread came up. Personally my first batch was just apple juice and white sugar and honestly it was good. It got better with time and my only regret is that the last cup I had tasted the best by far. Next time I would leave it to sit longer. Even though it says on their websites home page it only takes 5 days, in every recipe on their app it says drastically different times depending on the recipe, and they do emphasize in all of their instructions to taste and leave it for longer until it is fully fermented, so I don't think people are under the impression it'll be absolutely ready to drink in 5 days. I wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for brewsy making it accessible and easy to make my first home made alcoholic beverage, and I am happy with what I paid for the introduction.


nooooooo,, i bulk age everything whites 1 to 2 years, reds 2 to 3 years all under S-airlocks,, i can't say about grapes, i do all fruits and berries, also called Country Wines,, that apple you spoke of, if you bulk age for a year it is undesirably better, 
Dawg


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## ChuckD (Jan 4, 2022)

hounddawg said:


> that apple you spoke of, if you bulk age for a year it is undesirably better,


Try four to six months to start… you can work your way up from there! Beware. Wine making can be habit forming!


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## sour_grapes (Jan 4, 2022)

Adultapplejuice said:


> Hello, I am one of the people who got a brewsy kit and just made my second batch with it. Happened to be googling some recipes and this thread came up. Personally my first batch was just apple juice and white sugar and honestly it was good. It got better with time and my only regret is that the last cup I had tasted the best by far. Next time I would leave it to sit longer. Even though it says on their websites home page it only takes 5 days, in every recipe on their app it says drastically different times depending on the recipe, and they do emphasize in all of their instructions to taste and leave it for longer until it is fully fermented, so I don't think people are under the impression it'll be absolutely ready to drink in 5 days. I wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for brewsy making it accessible and easy to make my first home made alcoholic beverage, and I am happy with what I paid for the introduction.



Great to hear! Welcome to WMT, and let you next batches be even better!


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## G259 (Jan 5, 2022)

ThunderFred said:


> Some will leave it at that and others will come looking for more information on how to do better.



I think a lot of others will be turned off of wine making, thus a loss to the community.


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