# 2017 Harford Vineyard Chilean Grape/Juice Pickup



## ceeaton

Just posting this thread in case someone is actually picking up juice buckets/grapes this Spring at Harford Vineyards. Sounds like things are due to get rolling this coming weekend. Still waiting for the final confirmation via email. Anyone planning to pick up juice? Just wondering if I should stash a few bottles to trade when I get there. I am pretty sure Heather, Boatboy Jim and jgmann Jim are filled to the gills with wine (or too busy to make wine this Spring).

I've ordered three buckets and some grapes. A Muscat bucket, a Chianti bucket and a Syrah bucket and a lug of Syrah grapes. Planning on adding some cranberries to the Chianti bucket to try and recreate my Wife's favorite wine, a OB Cranberry Chianti. May pick up some more buckets if there are extra, though the site still shows buckets available for order.

Just post if you are planning to go. If things work out I'll be up there Saturday morning, as my Wife has to work (train) this coming weekend (figures, we usually try and make the trip into a lunch date).


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> Just posting this thread in case someone is actually picking up juice buckets/grapes this Spring at Harford Vineyards. Sounds like things are due to get rolling this coming weekend. Still waiting for the final confirmation via email. Anyone planning to pick up juice? Just wondering if I should stash a few bottles to trade when I get there. I am pretty sure Heather, Boatboy Jim and jgmann Jim are filled to the gills with wine (or too busy to make wine this Spring).
> 
> I've ordered three buckets and some grapes. A Muscat bucket, a Chianti bucket and a Syrah bucket and a lug of Syrah grapes. Planning on adding some cranberries to the Chianti bucket to try and recreate my Wife's favorite wine, a OB Cranberry Chianti. May pick up some more buckets if there are extra, though the site still shows buckets available for order.
> 
> Just post if you are planning to go. If things work out I'll be up there Saturday morning, as my Wife has to work (train) this coming weekend (figures, we usually try and make the trip into a lunch date).



What time Saturday morning? I probably won't buy anything but would like to meet people and see the winery. I'm pretty sure I'm free.


----------



## mainshipfred

Just went to Hartford's site. Are the buckets and grapes really that cheap?


----------



## jas3019

I will likely be there Saturday or Sunday just not sure which. 

And mainship, those prices are half the cost. You pay the first half to reserve and then the second half when you pick up. So double the cost. Still cheap!


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Just went to Hartford's site. Are the buckets and grapes really that cheap?



Those are 50% of the price. Pay that up front, then the remaining 50% when you pick up. Still, a bucket of juice for less than $60 makes for some inexpensive wine.


----------



## mainshipfred

jas3019 said:


> I will likely be there Saturday or Sunday just not sure which.
> 
> And mainship, those prices are half the cost. You pay the first half to reserve and then the second half when you pick up. So double the cost. Still cheap!



I can't do Sunday, going to the baseball game. Let me know if Saturday works. I assume the ones that say in stock are extras and available to purchase. At that price and with very little arm twisting I may be forced to buy one.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> I can't do Sunday, going to the baseball game. Let me know if Saturday works. I assume the ones that say in stock are extras and available to purchase. At that price and with very little arm twisting I may be forced to buy one.



No, from the email I got (you gotta sign up when you visit for the emails) you can still order anything that says "In Stock". When you get there they have a list at the checkout register with "extras" they have. I know Jim (Boatboy Jim) has swapped grapes before to try and make less trips since it is a long haul for him. When they swap the grapes your "give back" items go on the extras list.

I plan on being there whenever they open on Saturday morning, unless they don't get their delivery as expected. My Wife is working and I'd rather not give too much time for my kids to burn down the house while I'm gone.


----------



## Bodenski

I'll be up there Saturday to pick up a bucket of South African Cabernet juice and a lug of SA cabernet grapes. I've got no good wine to swap out with anyone right now 

That is to say I've bottled a bunch of stuff (country wines) that isn't quite ready to gift/share. Since they are all among my first batches I need to make sure they age alright before I gift/trade them! Although hopefully next year I can meet up and have something good to trade. I just wish it wasn't a 90 minute trip up there . . .


----------



## ceeaton

Bodenski said:


> I'll be up there Saturday to pick up a bucket of South African Cabernet juice and a lug of SA cabernet grapes. I've got no good wine to swap out with anyone right now
> 
> That is to say I've bottled a bunch of stuff (country wines) that isn't quite ready to gift/share. Since they are all among my first batches I need to make sure they age alright before I gift/trade them! Although hopefully next year I can meet up and have something good to trade. I just wish it wasn't a 90 minute trip up there . . .


No worries. I think most give wine away and don't expect equal in return or anything in return for that matter. I feel when I get something in return it is a bonus, giving is always more fun for me. Honest opinions matter in return. I expect someone to let me know if the wine tastes like s**t or if it was good. I like suggestions so I can make the next batch a better batch.


----------



## Boatboy24

Wish I had space in the winery for more, but it'll have to wait for fall.


----------



## mainshipfred

I'm 90% sure I'm going on Saturday. My wife thinks itis too far so I'm probably flying solo. I'd be more then happy to drive if any NOVA people want to hitch a ride. I too have nothing to offer in trade yet.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> I'm 90% sure I'm going on Saturday. My wife thinks itis too far so I'm probably flying solo. I'd be more then happy to drive if any NOVA people want to hitch a ride. I too have nothing to offer in trade yet.



Just bring a few store bought bottles of Amarone, Brunello di Montalcino, and Barolo. That should be acceptable. 

Still would like to meet up locally and sample some of the offerings at local vineyards and will certainly be heading up to Harford in the fall. While you're up there, do yourself a favor and try their Traminette. It's a wonderfully delicious and aromatic wine.


----------



## mainshipfred

Too funny, I do have a 2012 bottle of Amarone I got for my birthday. The only really good bottle I have or ever had.

Went to Pearmund on Saturday but anytime you want to go just let me know. I still want to take you up on your offer to help me tweek my wines. Will try the Traminette.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Too funny, I do have a 2012 bottle of Amarone I got for my birthday. The only really good bottle I have or ever had.
> 
> Went to Pearmund on Saturday but anytime you want to go just let me know. I still want to take you up on your offer to help me tweek my wines. Will try the Traminette.



Our Sunday afternoon/evening plans may be at risk. Should they fall through, I'll touch base. Hopefully I'll know in the next 48 hours. Saturday is crazy though.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> I'm 90% sure I'm going on Saturday. My wife thinks itis too far so I'm probably flying solo. I'd be more then happy to drive if any NOVA people want to hitch a ride. I too have nothing to offer in trade yet.




I just got a little pep in my step thinking I might have possibly had a P.I.C. for this 'would-be' 2 hr drive from the Philadelphia area. And dove into Harford's website. And the potential for some grapes as well as juice! 
Punch to the gut when I realized NOVA does not stand for the Villanova University area and is actually 'Northern Virginia'.


----------



## Boatboy24

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I just got a little pep in my step thinking I might have possibly had a P.I.C. for this 'would-be' 2 hr drive from the Philadelphia area. And dove into Harford's website. And the potential for some grapes as well as juice!
> Punch to the gut when I realized NOVA does not stand for the Villanova University area and is actually 'Northern Virginia'.



Would it help if I told you I went to Villanova?  Do you live in the Main Line area?


----------



## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> Would it help if I told you I went to Villanova?  Do you live in the Main Line area?




I'd say that helps you in all aspects. Nova has an amazing reputation and I'd be damn proud of that if I were you. But no, not a Wildcat nor a silver-spooned mainliner. Temple was my school. And recently crossed the river to the great state of South Jersey! (Not to be confused with the entirely different state North Jersey). I work in Philadelphia but live 2 minutes from a trillion farms. And Just a 30 min drive from Renault Winery where the Mrs and I just spent last weekend! (Horseback riding, tour and tasting, followed by a Murder Mystery Dinner at the Tuscan Hotel. Great weekend)
But Harford winery is very well represented here on the forum and had me intrigued. I have already purchased my juice locally (may 13th pickup) but was definitely looking for a justified reason to expand my horizon (and Chilean batches!) while at the same time meeting some others with the same interests. So yea, I would have told myself the Main Line was close enough to justify the day trip, the unexpected 6 gal batch with some grapes, and another carboy or 2. Yea I know it's a reach, but I'm chomping at the bit for Chilean. Which is really just gonna be a tease and a learning curve (first MLF, first batch with AIO, and first spring harvest) until the Cali juice and grapes in September! (Pretty dead set on a 15 gal super Tuscan to be blended myself). 
With all the being said, for all those heading to Harford this weekend, Enjoy! I expect to hear all about it.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Our Sunday afternoon/evening plans may be at risk. Should they fall through, I'll touch base. Hopefully I'll know in the next 48 hours. Saturday is crazy though.



Jim, I'm going to a Nats game on Sunday. Let's plan the following weekend. Either day works for me.


----------



## Boatboy24

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I'd say that helps you in all aspects. Nova has an amazing reputation and I'd be damn proud of that if I were you. But no, not a Wildcat nor a silver-spooned mainliner. Temple was my school. And recently crossed the river to the great state of South Jersey! (Not to be confused with the entirely different state North Jersey). I work in Philadelphia but live 2 minutes from a trillion farms. And Just a 30 min drive from Renault Winery where the Mrs and I just spent last weekend! (Horseback riding, tour and tasting, followed by a Murder Mystery Dinner at the Tuscan Hotel. Great weekend)
> But Harford winery is very well represented here on the forum and had me intrigued. I have already purchased my juice locally (may 13th pickup) but was definitely looking for a justified reason to expand my horizon (and Chilean batches!) while at the same time meeting some others with the same interests. So yea, I would have told myself the Main Line was close enough to justify the day trip, the unexpected 6 gal batch with some grapes, and another carboy or 2. Yea I know it's a reach, but I'm chomping at the bit for Chilean. Which is really just gonna be a tease and a learning curve (first MLF, first batch with AIO, and first spring harvest) until the Cali juice and grapes in September! (Pretty dead set on a 15 gal super Tuscan to be blended myself).
> With all the being said, for all those heading to Harford this weekend, Enjoy! I expect to hear all about it.



Being in South Jersey, you should have a lot of good options for grapes within a reasonable distance.


----------



## Bodenski

My son is working on his driver's license, and needs lots of hours of driving. I think I'll have him take me up there to be my "designated driver" 

I'd love to wait until the next weekend to go up, but this weekend works much better. I'm looking forward to this batch. it will be my first MLF and my first non-kit "real" wine. I think it's a 90 minute drive from home. Maybe I'll see what else they have let while I"m there. Maybe I'll pick up a white as well.


----------



## mainshipfred

I'm hoping they have something extra as well, I've never did anything but a kit either. I honestly don't care what is is just as long as it's red. Heck if they have enough grapes I may even try that.


----------



## Boatboy24

Sauvignon Blank, Pinot Grigio or Viognier would be easy. No MLF required. Just warm it up, and pitch your yeast. 30 bottles of wine for about $60. Spend a few bucks to get a pH meter, and you can practice that testing, as well as TA. Then you're ready for fall!

(yes, I am now living vicariously through you guys)


----------



## mainshipfred

Thanks, I already have a PH Meter. Next purchase is a Vinmetrica SO2 tester or equivalent.


----------



## jas3019

Has anyone actually gotten the email from Harford confirming this weekend? The last email I saw only mentioned possible delivery. Not confirmed delivery.


----------



## mainshipfred

I don't know how responsive they are. I just sent them an email asking if they ordered anyhing extra and if the delivery has arrived. They are evidently closed today.


----------



## heatherd

Craig is correct, I am still up to the gills with in-progress wine, so will skip spring harvest.

Fall harvest, however, will be my big hurrah this year!! I'm out of the 60 bottle batch of cabernet sauvignon now, so will likely do another double batch of that. I suspect I will do all reds since my 2016 fall harvest had whites.

I am in Ohio for a large family get-together, for which I brought 6 bottles of wine. The family opened my 2 bottles of coffee port; they used every glass in the house and even some clean votive candle holders to chug all the port. Pretty funny, especially seeing relatives in their 20s and 30s who might not normally appreciate port. They all asked how they could get more, could they buy it, and my 30-year-old nephew said that he has decided that any time he ingests alcohol he wants it to be coffee port. I probably still have 50 bottles of coffee, raspberry mocha, black forest, and toasted caramel port, so I plan to give them as holiday presents again this year (didn't last year b/c I forgot). I have a vanilla fig on deck, and will be searching the interwebs for a coffee kit.  My SIL will be visiting me in MD this weekend and I'll be sending a case of port home with her.


----------



## Ajmassa

There are areas I could go get grapes I found , but I had already commited to my usual shop for a juice bucket. I just wanted a lug for the primary anyway plus I already bought a Mosti Mondiali all grape pack to use. Next year I'll probably check this big supplier, Gino Pintos, less than an hour away.


----------



## ceeaton

jas3019 said:


> Has anyone actually gotten the email from Harford confirming this weekend? The last email I saw only mentioned possible delivery. Not confirmed delivery.


No email yet. If they do get them in for this weekend we'll probably get the email between now and Thursday morning, if not it may be next week. They are usually open both during the week and a couple of weekends minimum to distribute the grapes. Sometimes in the Spring they get multiple deliveries, other times it is all at once. In the Fall the deliveries are spread over a much longer period, depending on what AVA the grapes originate from.


----------



## mainshipfred

Just received an email from harford. The delivery is coming in early next week.

Fred,

The delivery is coming early next week and we will be sending a newsletter shortly with times for pick up.

You can order any juice on line by Saturday and we can get it on the delivery.

We will order a few buckets extra, but since we do not need it for our wine production it is best to order what you want.


Teresa


----------



## jas3019

Well that's a shame but it gives me more time to research what I'm doing. Considering oaking a chenin blanc and might go buy a couple to taste them.


----------



## ceeaton

The best laid plans....well at least my Wife can come if she isn't scheduled for her side job. Rare that everything shows up on the same delivery, which is a good thing if you are doing a bucket + a lug of grapes. Might have to add to my order, always nice to get it all in one trip, though my round trip is just over 2 hours. Plus I can stop at @jgmann67 's mansion to quench my thirst (actually, I'm sure he'll be knocking on doors).

Edit: Wifey finally got off the phone and informed me she was coming, which means we'll do a lunch, probably in Hanover, on the way home for our anniversary (usually a steakhouse if she gets to choose).


----------



## mainshipfred

Just received the email from Harford. Juice and grapes arrived today. They open at 8:30 on Saturday and Sunday. I'm open to either day at any time and would like to meet as many people as possible. Would it be possible to post what time is best for you.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> Just received the email from Harford. Juice and grapes arrived today. They open at 8:30 on Saturday and Sunday. I'm open to either day at any time and would like to meet as many people as possible. Would it be possible to post what time is best for you.



Talked with the boss, she says around 10 am plus or minus an hour on Saturday is fine (Sunday is out). She would love to meet some "wine people" since I spend so much time on here and none with her. She likes to do a sampling of their wines since I'm the designated non-drinker/driver. All could change if one of the kids hasn't informed us of an activity, I'll give them the "inquisition" tomorrow morning, if they don't answer correctly they don't get breakfast (just kidding).

We are flexible as long as she can get to Longhorn Steakhouse in Hanover PA for lunch (because I'm paying).

Funny, just checked my email and I didn't get that one yet. Maybe they did give you my grapes?


----------



## jas3019

Hah too bad they gave all yours away  

But I, too, got the email. Unfortunately my weekend plans are really up in the air now so I don't know when I'll get there. I think Saturday is out for sure but who knows.


----------



## Boatboy24

Have fun all! Wish I could be there, but hopefully, I'll catch all of you in the fall.


----------



## Bodenski

I was going to be up there in the morning if it was this last weekend, but this weekend is tougher. I have a family date with the wife and kids to go see Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 Saturday morning. (It's still $20/ticket for Imax 3D for a matinee!) SO I'll be up there some time before they close Saturday so I can get this stuff started!


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> Talked with the boss, she says around 10 am plus or minus an hour on Saturday is fine (Sunday is out). She would love to meet some "wine people" since I spend so much time on here and none with her. She likes to do a sampling of their wines since I'm the designated non-drinker/driver. All could change if one of the kids hasn't informed us of an activity, I'll give them the "inquisition" tomorrow morning, if they don't answer correctly they don't get breakfast (just kidding).
> 
> We are flexible as long as she can get to Longhorn Steakhouse in Hanover PA for lunch (because I'm paying).
> 
> Funny, just checked my email and I didn't get that one yet. Maybe they did give you my grapes?



Many thanks, I didn't think you would care.


----------



## jas3019

Change of plans for me. Took off work today for some other appointments and realized I have the morning free. Headed up in a few minutes. Woohoo!


----------



## jas3019

The first customer of the season! They're so nice up there. Bought my juice pail and 4 cases of bottles.


----------



## mainshipfred

What are the bottles like. Are they new?


----------



## jas3019

Yep. Just some clear and green Bordeaux bottles. He's got some discounted to push them - frosted clear and blue. But I stuck with my old standbys.


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> Talked with the boss, she says around 10 am plus or minus an hour on Saturday is fine (Sunday is out). She would love to meet some "wine people" since I spend so much time on here and none with her. She likes to do a sampling of their wines since I'm the designated non-drinker/driver. All could change if one of the kids hasn't informed us of an activity, I'll give them the "inquisition" tomorrow morning, if they don't answer correctly they don't get breakfast (just kidding).
> 
> We are flexible as long as she can get to Longhorn Steakhouse in Hanover PA for lunch (because I'm paying).
> 
> Funny, just checked my email and I didn't get that one yet. Maybe they did give you my grapes?



Craig, looks like it's only you and I for Saturday. I'll be there around 10:00 or sooner. I want to bring you a bottle of wine from a local winery but need to know if you like Norton.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> Craig, looks like it's only you and I for Saturday. I'll be there around 10:00 or sooner. I want to bring you a bottle of wine from a local winery but need to know if you like Norton.



Like I said, when I give away wine I don't expect anything in return other than an honest opinion. If you bring a bottle of Norton, I won't turn it down since that is one of the grapes I could conceivably grow in my back yard, and I'll have to admit I never tasted one, that I remember (thinking Gettysburg wine festival, way too many wines to remember). 

Last I heard we are still aiming for 10 am or a little sooner. I'll P.M. you my cell number and you can text me when you get there. If I get held up I can text you back so you aren't waiting around for a long period of time.


----------



## ceeaton

Finally Saturday is here! After a quick breakfast and some coffee to go, driving with my wife down into Maryland to pickup some Chilean raw materials. Coming the long way home through north central Maryland to end up in Hanover PA for a nice lunch at a restaurant of my wife's choice (probably LongHorn or Texas Roadhouse). Hope to meet and trade a wine or two and some tall tales with mainshipfred!


----------



## heatherd

Typically with Harford they maybe send one email about the spring products, so it's pretty easy to ignore when I'm skipping. This year they keep sending email after email and it's making my resolve wear thin!


----------



## Johnd

heatherd said:


> Typically with Harford they maybe send one email about the spring products, so it's pretty easy to ignore when I'm skipping. This year they keep sending email after email and it's making my resolve wear thin!



Buck up and make some wine!!!


----------



## dcbrown73

I picked up mine today (Chilean Carménère, and Cabernet) though I didn't go to Harford. Too far, I picked up at a local place here in Connecticut.

Already prepped for fermentation, just waiting on the temperature to come up. It tastes fantastic!


----------



## ceeaton

heatherd said:


> Typically with Harford they maybe send one email about the spring products, so it's pretty easy to ignore when I'm skipping. This year they keep sending email after email and it's making my resolve wear thin!



Their son said that there were issues with the new email service (many like myself didn't get he "grapes are here" email, so they duplicated the emails using the old method (which I still didn't get)). So that is why you got so many emails. Their son said they are planning to sell a bit more of their grapes this Fall to us small time winemakers. And my wife liked the Traminette this year!


----------



## ceeaton

Finally got home around 3 pm (long lunch, Lowe's for paint strainer bags, Kohl's for shoes, Giant because it's a daily thing...). Buckets are still plenty cold since it is a miserable, rainy day. Bright spot was meeting @mainshipfred today. He just spent too much time purchasing that barrel, so I couldn't quite get his ear to fall off with me talking so much. I look forward to meeting up with him again this Fall.

Got a Chianti bucket (recreating my wife's favorite wine, OB Cranberry Chianti), Syrah bucket and a lug of grapes, and a Muscato bucket. Have them inside trying to warm them up, but it will probably be until tomorrow until I can test/adjust/pitch yeast. Hand de-stemmed and crushed my lug. The grapes are in good condition, no greenies, but I noticed many more damaged ones plus a lot of raisins. Got more raisins in one lug that I did in all of the other grapes I've ever ordered from them combined. Tested some of the juice from the grapes and it was 19.5 brix. Crushed lug is hanging out in the garage in a bucket with Lallzyme EX-V added (temps around 55*F). Here are some images:


----------



## Bodenski

My wife and I got there around 3 PM. Picked up a Chilean Pinot Grigio bucket, a South African Cabernet bucket and a lug of South African Cabernet grapes. 

I tried to test everything, but the acid titration didn't seem to work at all. The wine is still cold (39 degrees) but I don't know if that has anything to do with titration of acids. I didn't think the NaOH was that old, but maybe it is. For what I could check these are the numbers I got.

Pinot Grigio
SG 1.090
pH 3.58

Caberbnet juice
SG 1.094
pH 3.76

I hand destemmed the single lug, and added about 2 gallons of the cab bucket to it. I don't know if that will end up being a single batch after fermentation or if I'll keep them separate. Here's a pick of the grapes.







I hope to pitch yeast tomorrow (after I recheck the SG and the pH, and attempt titration again), and I'll end up doing MLF on the Cab. I don't have a way to check completion, so the plan is to pitch the bacteria when I go to secondary and just let it run for two months before I start adding chemicals to stabilize. Hopefully they'll get the memo that they're supposed to be done at that point!


----------



## ceeaton

Bodenski said:


> I don't have a way to check completion, so the plan is to pitch the bacteria when I go to secondary and just let it run for two months before I start adding chemicals to stabilize. Hopefully they'll get the memo that they're supposed to be done at that point!



Here's what I use. Nice easy instructions, you'll be good for many years of MLF testing:

http://www.piwine.com/chromatography-test-kit-vertical-paper.html

Interested to hear how your South African wines turn out. How did you like the grapes, did they seem to be in good condition? And more importantly, in a year or so, what do you think about how the flavor of your wine is progressing. Post often, pictures like you included are nice (like a young kid, books with pictures are more interesting).

Have fun!


----------



## Bodenski

ceeaton said:


> Interested to hear how your South African wines turn out. How did you like the grapes, did they seem to be in good condition?



This is my first time doing anything like this, so I'm not really sure what "good" grapes are supposed to look like. Before I added some bucket juice to the grapes I tasted a little of the straight grapes juice. Taste was more or less equivalent. It's hard to taste nuances of the flavor with all that sugar! 

The one thing I'll say is that a handful of the grape bunches had some mold (I think) growing on them. It was easy to separate those out, but some may have made it into the mix. I did add a couple of campden tablets to help keep everything at bay, but it still makes me a little nervous. I'll be sure to hydrate the yeast I'm adding well so that it can be predominate. 

Also, for having never started from grapes before, I was surprised at how small they were. I didn't realize the grapes I get at the store for eating are monster sized compared to viniferous grapes!

I'll have more pictures after I pitch the yeast. For the single lug of grapes I have them in a bag so I can squeeze them easier. I guess the choice is either ferment with the grapes in a bag or let them loose and filter everything afterwards. I think I prefer using the bag, so that's what I'm doing this time. Luckily I have the headroom in the bucket for them.


----------



## ceeaton

Bodenski said:


> This is my first time doing anything like this, so I'm not really sure what "good" grapes are supposed to look like. Before I added some bucket juice to the grapes I tasted a little of the straight grapes juice. Taste was more or less equivalent. It's hard to taste nuances of the flavor with all that sugar!
> 
> The one thing I'll say is that a handful of the grape bunches had some mold (I think) growing on them. It was easy to separate those out, but some may have made it into the mix. I did add a couple of campden tablets to help keep everything at bay, but it still makes me a little nervous. I'll be sure to hydrate the yeast I'm adding well so that it can be predominate.
> 
> Also, for having never started from grapes before, I was surprised at how small they were. I didn't realize the grapes I get at the store for eating are monster sized compared to viniferous grapes!
> 
> I'll have more pictures after I pitch the yeast. For the single lug of grapes I have them in a bag so I can squeeze them easier. I guess the choice is either ferment with the grapes in a bag or let them loose and filter everything afterwards. I think I prefer using the bag, so that's what I'm doing this time. Luckily I have the headroom in the bucket for them.



I know what you mean about knowing what is "good" and "not so good". I've only bought grapes 5 times since I'm pretty new to this too. It is good to remove anything that is growing on it's own, but wine making is pretty forgiving (verses beer making). 

These grapes seem to be shipped with Kmeta pads to keep things from growing on them, so if you have an issue with your MLB, it might be due to the extra Kmeta (see last Springs posts by @Boatboy24 for Harford Chilean grapes). So adding nutrients for the yeast and the MLB is a good idea. Get them a healthy start and you usually won't have problems down the road.

I do the bag "thing" for a single lug too. Easy to punch down with a squeeze, no need to "press" the grapes as you are doing that every time you squeeze and let it sink in your fermenter. When you are done with those grapes, save the skins in the freezer (if you have a vacuum food saver it works great) so you can add them to kits or other buckets down the road.

Remember to post any concerns you have, many here are quite willing to help you out, especially the group who use Harford for their raw materials. Hope you are having fun and learning a lot!


----------



## Boatboy24

@ceeaton: 19.5 brix? Are you comfortable with that reading or do you think it could be higher?


----------



## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> @ceeaton: 19.5 brix? Are you comfortable with that reading or do you think it could be higher?



That was literally right when I was breaking them up. I'll check it tomorrow a.m. once the Lallzyme has done it's thing to the skins and I've mashed it up a bit. Plus I haven't checked the bucket yet, but once I get the two readings, I'll figure 1 1/4 gallons from the grapes + the 6 gallon bucket and aim for 23-25 brix, if I have to add acidulated water with sugar, so be it. I'm just too tired to test everything tonight, plus the buckets are still really cold since it's only 68*F in the house (I am NOT turning the heat back on -- kids and wife have formed a strong lobby for me to do it, but I'm resisting with strong indifference and wine drinking).


----------



## sour_grapes

ceeaton said:


> Bright spot was meeting @mainshipfred today. He just spent too much time purchasing that barrel, so I couldn't quite get his ear to fall off with me talking so much. I look forward to meeting up with him again this Fall.




Psst, Fred: You better start saving up for another barrel to purchase in the fall! ::


----------



## mainshipfred

sour_grapes said:


> Psst, Fred: You better start saving up for another barrel to purchase in the fall! ::



Believe me the thought has already crossed my mind. I'm thinking the 6.5 gal being new could possibly be freed up by fall. Not sure whether I want another 6.5 or a 10 or both or 2-10s or a 20 plus I need a Vinmetrica. Heck, going back to the thread of expensive hobbies, boating and golf are nothing compared to wine making.


----------



## Ajmassa

I went with one of those brew bags with handles that line the primary bucket. For a 3 lug batch of Cab. Thinking that would be nice and easy to just lift out when I press with my makeshift bucket press I still haven't made. 
Curious if the raisins in these lugs have any negative effects to the wine?
And is there anyone out there who actually tested the S02 levels of the grapes that came with the so2 protective pads for any additions???? I meant to but got caught up in everything else going on.


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I went with one of those brew bags with handles that line the primary bucket. For a 3 lug batch of Cab. Thinking that would be nice and easy to just lift out when I press with my makeshift bucket press I still haven't made.
> Curious if the raisins in these lugs have any negative effects to the wine?
> And is there anyone out there who actually tested the S02 levels of the grapes that came with the so2 protective pads for any additions???? I meant to but got caught up in everything else going on.



From a novice standpoint I can't imagine commercial wineries picking through and removing the raisons. I would imagine all the goodies are still in there just not as much water.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> From a novice standpoint I can't imagine commercial wineries picking through and removing the raisons. I would imagine all the goodies are still in there just not as much water.



Pretty sure the larger ones use mechanical sorters that can somehow figure out what's good and what's not.


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> Finally got home around 3 pm (long lunch, Lowe's for paint strainer bags, Kohl's for shoes, Giant because it's a daily thing...). Buckets are still plenty cold since it is a miserable, rainy day. Bright spot was meeting @mainshipfred today. He just spent too much time purchasing that barrel, so I couldn't quite get his ear to fall off with me talking so much. I look forward to meeting up with him again this Fall.
> 
> Got a Chianti bucket (recreating my wife's favorite wine, OB Cranberry Chianti), Syrah bucket and a lug of grapes, and a Muscato bucket. Have them inside trying to warm them up, but it will probably be until tomorrow until I can test/adjust/pitch yeast. Hand de-stemmed and crushed my lug. The grapes are in good condition, no greenies, but I noticed many more damaged ones plus a lot of raisins. Got more raisins in one lug that I did in all of the other grapes I've ever ordered from them combined. Tested some of the juice from the grapes and it was 19.5 brix. Crushed lug is hanging out in the garage in a bucket with Lallzyme EX-V added (temps around 55*F). Here are some images:



This morning with the grapes and juice combined I got 21.5 Brix and 3.67 Ph. Have to go buy a TA test kit. I'd like to get closer to 24 and 3.4. What do you think?


----------



## Boatboy24

All 4 of mine from last year were around 21 brix - I did not adjust. pH ranged from 3.45 to 3.7 - again, I didn't adjust. I think your numbers are fine. Brix is a tad low, but I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> All 4 of mine from last year were around 21 brix - I did not adjust. pH ranged from 3.45 to 3.7 - again, I didn't adjust. I think your numbers are fine. Brix is a tad low, but I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.



Will it change much if I let it macerate for a few days?


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Will it change much if I let it macerate for a few days?



It might. You're less than 24 hours on those skins, right? And only 1 lug, with 6 gallons of juice? If it does change, it probably won't be much. Assume you mixed it up well prior to taking your measurements, so it probably is what it is at this point.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> It might. You're less than 24 hours on those skins, right? And only 1 lug, with 6 gallons of juice? If it does change, it probably won't be much. Assume you mixed it up well prior to taking your measurements, so it probably is what it is at this point.



Yes to everything. May run out today and get a TA test kit. Plus I broke my thermometer.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Yes to everything. May run out today and get a TA test kit. Plus I broke my thermometer.



You have a local source? Closest I've seen is Jay's Brewing in Manassas. Used to be just a few minutes away for me when we lived in Bristow, but not as convenient anymore. Plus, they cater to beer, but obviously, some of the supplies and equipment overlap. I know of another place (My Local Home Brew Shop), but they are all the way down in Falls Church.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> You have a local source? Closest I've seen is Jay's Brewing in Manassas. Used to be just a few minutes away for me when we lived in Bristow, but not as convenient anymore. Plus, they cater to beer, but obviously, some of the supplies and equipment overlap. I know of another place (My Local Home Brew Shop), but they are all the way down in Falls Church.



MLHB has a little better selection but still mostly beer. Jay's almost looks like they just openned. They really need to up their inventory.


----------



## mainshipfred

mainshipfred said:


> MLHB has a little better selection but still mostly beer. Jay's almost looks like they just openned. They really need to up their inventory.



No sure my PMs are going through. I really should, but don't want to, work on my boat this afternoon but if your day opens up it just might give me a good excuse not to.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> No sure my PMs are going through. I really should, but don't want to, work on my boat this afternoon but if your day opens up it just might give me a good excuse not to.



Saw something from you, but it was blank. I miss having a boat - though I didn't have to work much on it - maybe that's why its still a fond memory.  What do you have?


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Saw something from you, but it was blank. I miss having a boat - though I didn't have to work much on it - maybe that's why its still a fond memory.  What do you have?



1988 35' Mainship Mediterranean Sedan Bridge with twin 454 Crusaders


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> 1988 35' Mainship Mediterranean Sedan Bridge with twin 454 Crusaders



Ah, that explains the name. 

I had a little 19 foot Sea Ray bowrider w/a 150hp I/O Mercruiser. A dinghy for your boat.


----------



## mainshipfred

Here's a pic, her name is Black's Pearl


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> Here's a pic, her name is Black's Pearl



I am surprised you have any money to make wine! I had a small (20') pontoon boat (our lake is rather small - 256 acres) and I was constantly struggling to keep the engine going - sold it to my brother-in-law, I think the base is now a floating dock for a friend of his on the Susquehanna).

If you can't get a TA test kit, I'd imagine our two batches are pretty close to the same, will post numbers of the Syrah when I get around to testing (still have to test my normal solution first). Now that dinner prep is out of the way I can concentrate on beer drinking and testing, in that order.

BTW, nice boat!


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Here's a pic, her name is Black's Pearl



That's not on Mattawoman Creek, is it?


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> This morning with the grapes and juice combined I got 21.5 Brix and 3.67 Ph. Have to go buy a TA test kit. I'd like to get closer to 24 and 3.4. What do you think?



I got a pH of 3.58 and a TA of 3.3 g/L, so you could add some tartaric acid to bring the pH down and it would improve the TA number. Grapes were in a container with Lallzyme EX-V overnight, put the grapes in a bag and added bucket, squeezed a few times and let sit for a few hours before testing. Temperature was at 64*F. Did test the normal solution and it was "normal" (decently new from PI wines). I got a 20.5 brix reading, might bump it up to 22 or so with some acidulated sugar water. I do like the aroma from the grapes, I'm getting a hint of black pepper already.

Edit: I'm showing a little over an ounce of tartaric will bring the TA up to 4.5 g/L, so I'm planning to add 14 g (roughly half) and leaving the Brix alone, still sitting on the fence as to whether I adjust the Brix, may wait until tomorrow morning and retest before making any adjustments in hopes I get a more accurate number.

Edit 2: Chianti bucket - pH 3.57 - added 32 oz cranberry juice (Knuetzen or something) + 2 x 12 oz Cranberry cocktail (Giant brand - no sorbate) - 1.084 before additives
Muscato bucket - pH 3.64 - SG 1.084 (common theme here)
Too lazy to do other measurements, and frankly I could give a s**t, I'm tired, maybe tomorrow a.m.


----------



## Boatboy24

I know they don't necessarily move in unison, but those pH and TA #'s don't make sense. That is crazy low TA - half of what it should be. Add a bit of a low brix, and it really doesn't make sense.


----------



## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> I know they don't necessarily move in unison, but those pH and TA #'s don't make sense. That is crazy low TA - half of what it should be. Add a bit of a low brix, and it really doesn't make sense.



Chileans.......had a taste of some of that nonsense myself last year.....


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> That's not on Mattawoman Creek, is it?



No, Belmont Bay


----------



## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> I know they don't necessarily move in unison, but those pH and TA #'s don't make sense. That is crazy low TA - half of what it should be. Add a bit of a low brix, and it really doesn't make sense.



Didn't make too much sense to me either, that's why I'm only going 1/2 way with any adjustments (which I haven't made yet). To add to the fun, the grapes all by themselves measure 4.01 pH (didn't do a TA measurement), so I'm waiting till tomorrow morning to test again. When in doubt, I'll let it ride, I can always adjust later, but I prefer to get 1/2 way up front if I can. If it becomes a "bust" batch, I don't have a whole heck of a lot of $$ invested in it, the one great advantage to these juice buckets.


----------



## Bodenski

Boatboy24 said:


> I know they don't necessarily move in unison, but those pH and TA #'s don't make sense. That is crazy low TA - half of what it should be. Add a bit of a low brix, and it really doesn't make sense.


Both my buckets tested really low on TA. My assumption was that the test kit was old, although I bought it less than 6 months ago. (Had to, since I've been in the hobby only 6 months, and I didn't have it at first!) The pH was Ok on both my buckets (one from South Africa, one from Chile) but both had low TA. Granted, this was when the temp was 39 degrees. Now that they've warmed up I plan on retesting this evening.


----------



## Boatboy24

OK, this is a bit off topic, but since the issue is arising with these grapes/buckets, I'll pose it here: What's more important, pH or TA? TA is a measure of the _amount_ of acid, but pH tells us the _strength_ of that acid. I now tend to go by 1) taste, 2) pH and 3) TA. If my taste tells me the wine is sharp or flat, I'll first test pH to confirm my taste buds. I always measure pH, but if that and taste are in line, I will often skip TA. Maybe I shouldn't, but that's been my practice the last couple years.


----------



## zadvocate

I would double check you TA test kit my hydro that I just bought was bad and my numbers were crazy. Morewine replaced it. I did an Accuvin SO2 test and it came in at 18 ppm on my grapes. it's hard to see the chart but that's how I interpreted the results.


----------



## ceeaton

I have the goop to test my normal solution, and it tested fine. I think the TA is just low with the Syrah. I noticed absolutely no unripe berries, normally there are a few "greenies" in a lug, and I had many more raisined grapes than ever before. That would point to a higher Brix and a lower TA, but a lower Brix and a lower TA make no sense, which is what we got.

Let's see how these wines taste after fermentation and go from there, don't quite know what else to do at this point. Don't want to elevate the TA if there is nothing body wise to support it. The pH is okay, so I'm sticking with that. I expect the pH to go through the roof upon MLF completion, we'll see.

PS. I just had my arm stick to my desk and realized that I had a bunch of grape goodies on the bottom of my arm. I ceremonially licked my arm clean as I made sure no one was coming down the basement stairs. I love juice from fresh grapes...


----------



## cmason1957

Boatboy24 said:


> OK, this is a bit off topic, but since the issue is arising with these grapes/buckets, I'll pose it here: What's more important, pH or TA? TA is a measure of the _amount_ of acid, but pH tells us the _strength_ of that acid. I now tend to go by 1) taste, 2) pH and 3) TA. If my taste tells me the wine is sharp or flat, I'll first test pH to confirm my taste buds. I always measure pH, but if that and taste are in line, I will often skip TA. Maybe I shouldn't, but that's been my practice the last couple years.



I do exactly what you do. And didn't even check the pH of my Chilean buckets. I believe ph is more important and will check it after ferment, before I pitch my MLB. Then again after malolactic completes to know how much So2 to add.


----------



## ceeaton

ceeaton said:


> I have the goop to test my normal solution, and it tested fine. I think the TA is just low with the Syrah. I noticed absolutely no unripe berries, normally there are a few "greenies" in a lug, and I had many more raisined grapes than ever before. That would point to a higher Brix and a lower TA, but a lower Brix and a lower TA make no sense, which is what we got.


Nice thing about AMH yeast is it takes at least a day to get going, so I pulled a larger sample (15 ml) this morning for the sake of added accuracy and retested and got a TA of 3.8 g/L, a little better (plus it is easier for me not to overshoot my 8.2 pH endpoint with the larger sample).


----------



## AZMDTed

I wasn't sure when I'd get up there for my lone lug of Chile Cab grapes so I didn't post earlier. Was able to get it late Saturday afternoon. Beautiful drive up there. Sunday morning I destemmed, squished, and added a little over half a teaspoon of pectic enzyme. I just checked the SG and was surprised to see it at 1.103. Nice. I got nearly a gallon and a half of juice from it and a couple nice bags of skins, and lots of seeds. 

I don't know about pH or acid levels. It was a nice learning experience playing with a small lug and doing it all by hand. I know I got good advice to alter my plan, but I'm going ahead and mixed the grape juice with an Eclipse Lodi Cab kit and am fermenting both together, with the two bags of skins and the kit skin pack. 

All good experience for more grapes later.


----------



## ceeaton

All three batches going full bore, added my first (and possibly last) addition of Fermaid O to the Syrah and Muscato. Noticed that my Fermaid O is all gone, time to order some more. No off aromas yet, and really don't expect any with D21 and AMH since they are rather forgiving yeast nutrient wise. In a pinch I do have some DAP in my "wine box" if I need it. Bag o' grapes floating high and dry this morning, squeezed twice this morning, will do the same tonight. If like any other AMH batch, I suspect this will be a long and steady ferment with those skins. Nothing like grape juice on the arms in the morning to wake you up!


----------



## dcbrown73

I prepped these on Thursdays, this morning when I got up for work. The CO2 smell was stronger than I've ever smelled it. (never had two batches in primary fermentation at the same time)

Both are fermenting with potency!


----------



## ceeaton

Checked SG after squeezing the grape bag this morning, 1.042. Never did make an acid adjustment or add any simple syrup, so might consider that this afternoon as I'm thinking of taking 1/2 day so I can get the lawn done before the end of week/weekend washout occurs. Still no abnormal aromas from any of the three batches, two blurping right along, the other sizzling when I take the brute lid off.


----------



## Bodenski

I bought two buckets and one lug. My Pinot Grigio bucket (Chilean) doesn't seem to be doing much yet. I'm using 71B yeast on it. I split the South African Cab bucket into two, and added the lug of grapes to one of them. Those are both fermenting away.

THis evening I'll check the SG on the PG to see if it's moving along but just quietly or not. If not, I do have another packet of 71B, and I'll use GoFerm and slowly add must to it to make sure it's bubbling away before adding it to the rest of the bucket.


----------



## Boatboy24

@mainshipfred: how's your fermentation coming along?


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> @mainshipfred: how's your fermentation coming along?



It's not, I'm doing a cold extended maceration. It's in my cooler @57*, the brix as of yesterday went from 21.5 to almost 23 didn't check the Ph. Used K-meta to kill the wild yeast and it seems to be working since my brix is going up. Never had a chance to get the TA test kit since work has been too busy. Probably pick it up Friday or Saturday make the adjustments and pitch Sunday or Monday. I know it doesn't appear anyone is worried about the TA but I would at least like to see what it is so I can compare it to future batches.

Edit: the wild yeast must have taken over. Fermentation started. Added a pack of BM 4x4 and raised the temp of the cooler to 62.


----------



## Bodenski

As a follow-up, my Pinot Grigio bucket is now fermenting along just fine. Just needed a little more time. Did a big squeeze on the grapes in the bag today for the Cab bucket. RIght now I can't tell any difference in taste between the bucket with grapes and the bucket of straight juice. Maybe with time it will be more noticeable. 

Overall I'm happy with how things are going.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> I know it doesn't appear anyone is worried about the TA but I would at least like to see what it is so I can compare it to future batches.



You can always adjust after you ferment. Sometimes it is just easier to go 1/2 way before and then correct a tidbit after. Most important thing is how it tastes, not the numbers. Numbers help you get close to what should taste good, but I've had plenty of tasty wines I've tested and the TA and pH aren't optimal, whatever optimal is...

I would add that some MLB strains do better at different pH's. In that case it's better to adjust up front and hope that fermentation doesn't change it too much as to knock it out of your MLB's optimal range.


----------



## Ajmassa

This batch was the first time I've adjusted pre-ferment. In hindsight I would have cut the acid addition in half. But I read this article 2 before I started which changed my perspective about the benefits of a more balanced must during the ferment 

https://winemakermag.com/1013-creating-a-balanced-must


----------



## ceeaton

The SG was 1.020 in the Syrah this morning. I did add 15 oz sugar + 1 cup water + 15g tartaric (heated and cooled) syrup to raise alcohol level to around 13% if it goes to 0.994 or lower, which I expect. No off aromas on any of the batches. Did get some sticky oozing out the top of the muscato bucket (used lid with a hole drilled and an airlock) that I had to clean up, otherwise all seems to be going well. AMH batches (Syrah and Chianti) moving a long a little quicker than I anticipated. Ambient temperature is 68*F in the house, measured 72*F in the Syrah this morning (outside of brute is noticeably warmer than its surroundings). Muscato is in the basement with an ambient temperature of 64*F and D21 yeast. 

I'd say I could move that brute into the bedroom to keep me warm at night, but when my wife reads this I may end up with my wish coming true, but my bed being the living room couch.


----------



## mainshipfred

After pitching the 4X4 Tuesday when I noticed the wild yeast taking over the SG is down to 1.064. Not sure if it's still the wild yeast or the 4X4 but there is a nice slow fermentation and it smells pretty grapy, no off odors. Will see what it's like tomorrow and may add some nutrient. May also follow Craigs lead and add some sugar and tartaric.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> After pitching the 4X4 Tuesday when I noticed the wild yeast taking over the SG is down to 1.064. Not sure if it's still the wild yeast or the 4X4 but there is a nice slow fermentation and it smells pretty grapy, no off odors. Will see what it's like tomorrow and may add some nutrient. May also follow Craigs lead and add some sugar and tartaric.



I think that by now the 4x4 has taken over. Just so you know my measurements were based on 6 gallons, not the 7 or so we'll probably get. I expect that there was an increase in my starting gravity the longer the grapes were in the bucket juice. I expect my TA to raise up to between 4.2 and 4.5 g/L and my calculated SG to be around 1.090-1.092 which is pretty close to 13% ABV if it goes dry.

Nice that we are making the same grape varietal using different yeast. I'll use some Xoakers for oak and I'm assuming you'll use your new barrel, so we'll have something to swap in two or three years to compare!


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> I think that by now the 4x4 has taken over. Just so you know my measurements were based on 6 gallons, not the 7 or so we'll probably get. I expect that there was an increase in my starting gravity the longer the grapes were in the bucket juice. I expect my TA to raise up to between 4.2 and 4.5 g/L and my calculated SG to be around 1.090-1.092 which is pretty close to 13% ABV if it goes dry.
> 
> Nice that we are making the same grape varietal using different yeast. I'll use some Xoakers for oak and I'm assuming you'll use your new barrel, so we'll have something to swap in two or three years to compare!



As far a making the same wine I'm probably going to do the MLF at least after primary and possibly after secondary so we will have a few differences to compare. When I was working on the winery they always did it after secondary. Unfortunately that winemaker left and I don't know where he went. This Sunday I'm going to a wine education gathering at another winery. It's about aging wine so I'll ask this winemaker what they do. Yes, it's going in the barrel.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> As far a making the same wine I'm probably going to do the MLF at least after primary and possibly after secondary so we will have a few differences to compare. When I was working on the winery they always did it after secondary. Unfortunately that winemaker left and I don't know where he went. This Sunday I'm going to a wine education gathering at another winery. It's about aging wine so I'll ask this winemaker what they do. Yes, it's going in the barrel.



Once I hit about 1.000 or below (depending on when I catch it) I will rack it, let it settle for a few days, rack again, then pitch the MLF rehydrated in Acti-ML per the instructions. I like to keep the process moving along since I haven't added any sulfites yet. As we figured out last Spring, those pads they ship it with have sulfites in them. This year I could smell them in my kitchen trash container when I took it out Sunday night for pickup on Monday. How much, who knows? You'd have to test after crushing them.

Wine education is always good, especially if you get to educate your palate with their wine!


----------



## mainshipfred

From what I gather it will be both reds and whites from the 90's with food pairings. Cost $25.00


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> From what I gather it will be both reds and whites from the 90's with food pairings. Cost $25.00



Awesome. Where is that being held?


----------



## mainshipfred

Pearmund, do you want to go?


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Pearmund, do you want to go?



Absolutely. However, it is Mother's Day. My wife just left on a trip with her Mom for a couple days and I need to pick them up at National on Sunday, then pamper darling wife for the remainder of the day.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Absolutely. However, it is Mother's Day. My wife just left on a trip with her Mom for a couple days and I need to pick them up at National on Sunday, then pamper darling wife for the remainder of the day.



so I think I'm taking that as a no.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> so I think I'm taking that as a no.



Sadly, it is. Sounds like it would be very informative. Keep me posted on other similar events though.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Sadly, it is. Sounds like it would be very informative. Keep me posted on other similar events though.



Ends up I probably won't be going. We had tickets to the cancelled Nats game last night and the make up is Sunday at 7.


----------



## mainshipfred

I got my TA test kit yesterday. I'm reading to dilute the wine with water and getting differing comments as to how much. Does the percent of added water change the outcome. I did it with equal parts but it is still dark and hard to tell when the color stops changing.

Just researched this: Since water is neutral and your measuring the moles of acid, the amount of water doesn't affect the reading. So I diluted 3 to 1 so I could see the change better and got a TA of around 6, twice.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Ends up I probably won't be going. We had tickets to the cancelled Nats game last night and the make up is Sunday at 7.



That would be a toss up for me.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> That would be a toss up for me.



I know she's not my mother but it is Mother's Day and I thought I ought to be nice. My wife is the real baseball fan in the family.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> So I diluted 3 to 1 so I could see the change better and got a TA of around 6, twice.



I'm hoping I did something wrong when I measured, I like a TA of 6 much better! I'll be retesting again tonight or tomorrow after I rack the wine, freeze the leftover skins and degass a sample for testing.


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> I'm hoping I did something wrong when I measured, I like a TA of 6 much better! I'll be retesting again tonight or tomorrow after I rack the wine, freeze the leftover skins and degass a sample for testing.



I need to get a 10 ml syringe to get a more accurate reading. the 20 is not calibrated enough. I added 8 0z of sugar and 15g of acid blend. 2 hours later It went from 1.037 to 1.043 SG and the TA was a little over 6 so I added another 12g of acid blend. Take more readings tomorrow morning. Oh, plus I added one cup of a secret ingredient.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> I need to get a 10 ml syringe to get a more accurate reading. the 20 is not calibrated enough. I added 8 0z of sugar and 15g of acid blend. 2 hours later It went from 1.037 to 1.043 SG and the TA was a little over 6 so I added another 12g of acid blend. Take more readings tomorrow morning. Oh, plus I added one cup of a secret ingredient.



Remind me if we try to meet in the fall. I have a few extra 3 ml syringes that come with the reservoirs that I use for the kids pumps, which are really nice to use for testing.


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> Remind me if we try to meet in the fall. I have a few extra 3 ml syringes that come with the reservoirs that I use for the kids pumps, which are really nice to use for testing.



Thanks, I think the smaller the calibration the better. I was looking at a set of 10 or so of different sizes for around 10 bucks. I'll wait until I get a longer list to offset the shipping cost. I need to buy a few finish hydrometers I already broke 2.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> I need to get a 10 ml syringe to get a more accurate reading. the 20 is not calibrated enough. I added 8 0z of sugar and 15g of acid blend. 2 hours later It went from 1.037 to 1.043 SG and the TA was a little over 6 so I added another 12g of acid blend. Take more readings tomorrow morning. Oh, plus I added one cup of a secret ingredient.



You should make your adjustments to grape musts with tartaric acid, not acid blend. Blend contains malic and citric acids in addition to tartaric.


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> You should make your adjustments to grape musts with tartaric acid, not acid blend. Blend contains malic and citric acids in addition to tartaric.



I had both but the TA kit came with blend. What would you use the blend for?


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> I had both but the TA kit came with blend. What would you use the blend for?



Mostly for fruit wines where all of the acids are already present. Grapes have very, very little citric acid. The general rule is blend for fruit wines and straight tartaric for grape wines.


----------



## ceeaton

Just squeezed my Syrah grapes for the last time (SG down to .997) and removed them from the bag. Always amazes me what 18 lbs of grapes ends up looking like after having a run-in with some yeast. I know the stems account for a small portion of the weight, but the final grape "paste" weighed in at a whopping 2 lbs 6 oz. Will freeze these in this plastic container and then food save to hopefully keep until Fall, though I have a low end blush kit to make for my wife (she doesn't know I'm doing it at this point) that I might add these to for some nose. My wife commented at the nice aroma when I was removing them from the bag and putting them in the plastic container. Good sign.


----------



## Bodenski

My buckets have been slowly chugging along, which I guess is good for the Pinot Grigio, maybe not as good for the Cab. They are both sitting in my kitchen, and the temps have been mid 60s in the house. I just added a heating belt to the Cab bucket that has the grapes in it. (The SG was higher in that one, so I figured it needed the heat the most. After a day or so I'll put the belt around the other bucket. The SG in that bucket is 1.038 5 days after pitching the yeast.


----------



## ceeaton

Bodenski said:


> My buckets have been slowly chugging along, which I guess is good for the Pinot Grigio, maybe not as good for the Cab. They are both sitting in my kitchen, and the temps have been mid 60s in the house. I just added a heating belt to the Cab bucket that has the grapes in it. (The SG was higher in that one, so I figured it needed the heat the most. After a day or so I'll put the belt around the other bucket. The SG in that bucket is 1.038 5 days after pitching the yeast.



A longer ferment on the Cab is not a bad thing. It's hard to get a rip-roaring hot ferment going in the Spring in our area, so I wouldn't be too concerned. I try and treat each ferment as it's own thing and as I learn to make wine will adjust what I do to them to try and get the best out of the raw materials that I'm buying. I think that is our main mission as a winemaker, let the raw materials best express themselves (ie. don't get in the way by overthinking things).


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> A longer ferment on the Cab is not a bad thing. It's hard to get a rip-roaring hot ferment going in the Spring in our area, so I wouldn't be too concerned. I try and treat each ferment as it's own thing and as I learn to make wine will adjust what I do to them to try and get the best out of the raw materials that I'm buying. I think that is our main mission as a winemaker, let the raw materials best express themselves (ie. don't get in the way by overthinking things).



I'm kind of liking the slow fermentation in my Syrah, it was my plan all along. Don't know why except I just wanted to try it. I'm at 1.032 at day 5 after adding 8 0z of sugar yesterday and starting at 1.090. I did add a little nutrient today maybe 8 grams. TA is about 7.2 and Ph 3.39. Do you think these are OK readings?

John, what would be the ill affects of using the blend rather then the tartaric?


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> TA is about 7.2 and Ph 3.39. Do you think these are OK readings?



Pretty darn good numbers. Did you just take those or were those prior to fermentation? CO2 in the sample can throw off the reading.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Pretty darn good numbers. Did you just take those or were those prior to fermentation? CO2 in the sample can throw off the reading.



No, it's like day 5 now. Didn't realize the C02 had an affect on the readings. Just an FYI, my wine pick up at Pearmund is this coming weekend if your able to go. I'll be flexible with the day.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> No, it's like day 5 now. Didn't realize the C02 had an affect on the readings. Just an FYI, my wine pick up at Pearmund is this coming weekend if your able to go. I'll be flexible with the day.



Saturday is out for me, but Sunday might be possible. We are tentatively doing the Arthritis Walk down at Nats Park, but I think that's early.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> John, what would be the ill affects of using the blend rather then the tartaric?



Acid blend contains tartaric, malic, and citric acids. Tartaric is the predominant acid in our grapes/juice, and we use MLF to remove malic acid (which is a stronger, sharper tasting acid) to make our wines smoother. Citric acid has a distinct taste, and is present in minute quantities is grapes/juice. 

By using acid blend, you are introducing citric acid where it doesn't belong, and introducing malic acid into an equation where you'd prefer it not exist.


----------



## ceeaton

Racked the Syrah off the gross lees. Got a 6 gallon carboy plus a 4L jug of wine. Pitch CH16 MLB with Acti-ML. SG was 0.996, but still some activity on the surface of the wine (AMH isn't a real foamy when fermenting). Smelled good and stained my racking tube as usual. Soaked in Oxyclean for 10 minutes and it was like new again.


----------



## ibglowin

MLB can not metabolize any man made malic acid which is the only thing sold by a LHBS so whatever you add is stuck in there unless you precipitate it out with salt. (carbonate)




Johnd said:


> By using acid blend, you are introducing citric acid where it doesn't belong, and introducing malic acid into an equation where you'd prefer it not exist.


----------



## ceeaton

ibglowin said:


> MLB can not metabolize any man made malic acid which is the only thing sold by a LHBS so whatever you add is stuck in there unless you precipitate it out with salt. (carbonate)



Question:
So, is it better to wait, taste and add any acid after fermentation/secondary MLB fermentation, so that you have an idea what your final product is going to be, because it is hard to discern that up front, since after adding acid some will get metabolized, some won't? (sorry, after reading I've constructed an Amish sentence)

I know at times you need to lower pH so that the yeast and/or MLB are happier, but if that isn't the case is it better to just "let it ride" and adjust later?


----------



## ibglowin

Main thing is to never use acid blend on ANY grape wine. Country wines sure.

I used to say add it up front and get it incorporated into the process early. Still feel like that is best practice for reds but whites I really think add it if need be after it has finished so you know where your at pH wise.



ceeaton said:


> Question:
> So, is it better to wait, taste and add any acid after fermentation/secondary MLB fermentation, so that you have an idea what your final product is going to be, because it is hard to discern that up front, since after adding acid some will get metabolized, some won't? (sorry, after reading I've constructed an Amish sentence)
> 
> I know at times you need to lower pH so that the yeast and/or MLB are happier, but if that isn't the case is it better to just "let it ride" and adjust later?


----------



## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> MLB can not metabolize any man made malic acid which is the only thing sold by a LHBS so whatever you add is stuck in there unless you precipitate it out with salt. (carbonate)



Agreed. Hence, why we use only tartaric for grape wines.....


----------



## JohnT

+1 on @ibglowin and @johnd ...

Tartaric is the predominant acid found in grape juice. This is then followed by malic and citric (in order of predominance). 

MLF converts the harsh malic acid into lactic acid. Lactic acid is much "softer" and accounts for some wines having a buttery taste/feel. 

I like to adjust acid/ph preferment only when the must really needs it. I like to get at least close to a TA of .55 or higher. Having higher acid during maceration aids in color extraction.

In short, use tartaric and make a judgment call on a pre-ferment acid adjustment.


----------



## Bodenski

I've been checking my SG every day, and this has been the slowest ferments I've ever had. Granted, the juice is right at the low end of acceptable for the yeast. At 8 days after pitching the yeast my SG is at 1.008 for the Cab buckets and 1.020 for the Pinot Grigio. The house is warming up some, and I expect them all to go to completion in the next 3-4 days. (Maybe a little longer for the Pinot. It' been dropping about .008/day so far.) 

My plan is to squeeze & pull the grapes once I get under 1.0. I'll also pitch the MLF bacteria at that point. Do I need to add any nutrient for that, or should it be OK? I've also got to split it between my two buckets (maybe 7 gallons total) which means the initial concentration won't be optimal. I guess I could buy another packet, but I was hoping to not have to. 

The other plan is to transfer to secondary once it's been stable for three days. That way I'll get a little settling out first (I'll stop stirring once it gets below 1.0). I always lose too much to that initial racking!


----------



## zadvocate

I would add Opti Malo plus for your MLB. Also most MLB packets are good for like 60 gallons so you could split it between buckets no problem.


----------



## Ajmassa

Bodenski said:


> My plan is to squeeze & pull the grapes once I get under 1.0. I'll also pitch the MLF bacteria at that point. Do I need to add any nutrient for that, or should it be OK?




I just did my first batch from grapes with MLF and asked tons of questions. And have learned that if you are inoculating your ML after primary, you should first press the grapes (or squeeze if it's 1 lug in a bag) and transfer wine to carboy. Wine from grapes can drop ALOT out in the first day or two after press. Rack the wine again off the gross lees 2 days after press. The gross lees can be bad for the malo allegedly. 
And mostly everyone recommended adding opti-malo as well as the ACTI-ML used with rehydrating the ML. I've read to add opti malo 1-2 days before, same time, as well as 1 day after adding the ML. So "when" seems to be preference for malo nutrient.


----------



## Bodenski

zadvocate said:


> I would add Opti Malo plus for your MLB. Also most MLB packets are good for like 60 gallons so you could split it between buckets no problem.



I'm using https://morewinemaking.com/products/wyeast-4007-liquid-malolactic-bacteria-125ml.html since it's all they had at my local HBS. Packet says it's good for 5 gallons. It's probably too late for me to try and do a starter culture to expand it. Plan is to split it between my two buckets. I also just plan on letting it go for two months then adding campden tablets. I don't feel like spending the money on a way to test the level at this point. I'm lucky to have a pH meter and a way to titrate acids!


----------



## Johnd

Bodenski said:


> I've been checking my SG every day, and this has been the slowest ferments I've ever had. Granted, the juice is right at the low end of acceptable for the yeast. At 8 days after pitching the yeast my SG is at 1.008 for the Cab buckets and 1.020 for the Pinot Grigio. The house is warming up some, and I expect them all to go to completion in the next 3-4 days. (Maybe a little longer for the Pinot. It' been dropping about .008/day so far.)
> 
> My plan is to squeeze & pull the grapes once I get under 1.0. I'll also pitch the MLF bacteria at that point. Do I need to add any nutrient for that, or should it be OK? I've also got to split it between my two buckets (maybe 7 gallons total) which means the initial concentration won't be optimal. I guess I could buy another packet, but I was hoping to not have to.
> 
> The other plan is to transfer to secondary once it's been stable for three days. That way I'll get a little settling out first (I'll stop stirring once it gets below 1.0). I always lose too much to that initial racking!



If you're going to wait until after pressing to add your MLB, consider postponing the inoculation just a bit. Press and get your juice into carboys, rack off of the gross lees in 2-3 days, add your MLB at that racking off of the gross lees. No sense adding the MLB and then leaving the lees behind in 2-3 days, they will be rich in MLB content.


----------



## mainshipfred

ibglowin said:


> MLB can not metabolize any man made malic acid which is the only thing sold by a LHBS so whatever you add is stuck in there unless you precipitate it out with salt. (carbonate)



Well lesson learned, did some research on the malic and found what you were referring to the 2 types D and L. To boot Carlson's blend is 10% tartaric, 50% Malic and 40% Citric not a good ratio. I'm stuck with the citric so the question is would the MLB if left in long enough convert all the naturally occuring malic and I would only be left with the synthetic? Per the ratio I have about 13g of synthetic. The other recommendation rather then carbonate was to blend the wine. All I have to blend with is a lower end Malbec and a better Pinot Noir. 
Any recommendations or should I just leave it and have a "not the greatest wine".


----------



## Boatboy24

Fred: Have you already added the blend? I believe I have some Tartaric on hand. If we manage to meet up this weekend, I can give you some.

Precipitating acid out with carbonate is an option, but if I recall correctly, that process preferentially goes after Tartaric first, which would just exacerbate your issue.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Fred: Have you already added the blend? I believe I have some Tartaric on hand. If we manage to meet up this weekend, I can give you some.
> 
> Precipitating acid out with carbonate is an option, but if I recall correctly, that process preferentially goes after Tartaric first, which would just exacerbate your issue.



I always had tartaric, I just didn't know the difference at the time and yes it is already added. I think I am just going to have to hope for the best and maybe try a few different blending options before I bottle, but that's a year or so down the road. If I did try to carbonate couldn't I add additional tartaric afterward?


----------



## ibglowin

Potassium Carbonate is an equal opportunity precipitator. You may get a bigger dump of TA but only because the amount is higher to begin with than MA.



Boatboy24 said:


> Precipitating acid out with carbonate is an option, but if I recall correctly, that process preferentially goes after Tartaric first, which would just exacerbate your issue.


----------



## ibglowin

In theory yes, but the acid blend you added contains much more Malic per gram than naturally occurring acid in grape must so you would probably never be able to taste any reduction depending on how much you added.

FWIW my first try at fresh grapes long ago I mistakenly added some Malic I had purchased by accident thinking that was what I needed instead of Tartaric. Luckily I had another 6G to blend it with down the road and it turned out fine. 

This is one of those wine making mistakes you only make once. Like accidentally leaving the spigot in the open position as you pour in your juice bag on a Kit wine. 



mainshipfred said:


> Well lesson learned, did some research on the malic and found what you were referring to the 2 types D and L. To boot Carlson's blend is 10% tartaric, 50% Malic and 40% Citric not a good ratio. I'm stuck with the citric so the question is would the MLB if left in long enough convert all the naturally occuring malic and I would only be left with the synthetic? Per the ratio I have about 13g of synthetic. The other recommendation rather then carbonate was to blend the wine. All I have to blend with is a lower end Malbec and a better Pinot Noir.
> Any recommendations or should I just leave it and have a "not the greatest wine".


----------



## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> Potassium Carbonate is an equal opportunity precipitator. You may get a bigger dump of TA but only because the amount is higher to begin with than MA.



Turns out, I was thinking of Calcium Carbonate, not Potassium.


----------



## mainshipfred

ibglowin said:


> In theory yes, but the acid blend you added contains much more Malic per gram than naturally occurring acid in grape must so you would probably never be able to taste any reduction depending on how much you added.
> 
> FWIW my first try at fresh grapes long ago I mistakenly added some Malic I had purchased by accident thinking that was what I needed instead of Tartaric. Luckily I had another 6G to blend it with down the road and it turned out fine.
> 
> This is one of those wine making mistakes you only make once. Like accidentally leaving the spigot in the open position as you pour in your juice bag on a Kit wine.



Thank you very much, makes me feel a little better. Have plenty of time to see if I want to try the carbonate. As far as the spigot thing, thanks for the heads up. LOL


----------



## Bodenski

Today my Cabernet is down to .994. Took much longer than I expected (11 days from pitching the yeast). My Pinot Grigio has only made it down to 1.004. I'm actually thinking about stopping the Pinot tomorrow to leave it just a little residual sweetness. I doubt it's going to finish to dry tonight with as slow as they've been going! 

Tomorrow I'll transfer the Cabernet to a couple of 3 gallon carboys since I split the 6 gallon bucket and added a lug of grapes to one. I'll try to keep them separate enough so that I can see if I can tell the different in a year. I plan on doing MLF on both halves, and I'll pitch that after I let them settle for a few days to get it off some of the lees first. 

These all need a good degassing, and all I have is the whip degasser to do it. I"m having a hard time now appreciating flavors with the fizz being so prominent. But so far I'm not tasting anything off.


----------



## ceeaton

Bodenski said:


> Today my Cabernet is down to .994. Took much longer than I expected (11 days from pitching the yeast). My Pinot Grigio has only made it down to 1.004. I'm actually thinking about stopping the Pinot tomorrow to leave it just a little residual sweetness. I doubt it's going to finish to dry tonight with as slow as they've been going!
> 
> Tomorrow I'll transfer the Cabernet to a couple of 3 gallon carboys since I split the 6 gallon bucket and added a lug of grapes to one. I'll try to keep them separate enough so that I can see if I can tell the different in a year. I plan on doing MLF on both halves, and I'll pitch that after I let them settle for a few days to get it off some of the lees first.
> 
> These all need a good degassing, and all I have is the whip degasser to do it. I"m having a hard time now appreciating flavors with the fizz being so prominent. But so far I'm not tasting anything off.



When I do MLF I rarely worry about degassing. I figure the CO2 in solution is better than O2 in solution, plus the MLB will create a small amount of CO2 on their own accord. 

When I sample a new wine, I put it in a small container and shake the s**t out if it for a minute or two, then let it rest with the lid off, then pour it in a glass and about 20 minutes later take a sample. By then most of the CO2 is gone and you get a better example of where you are, though it is a young wine you should be able to taste any off flavors and be able to address them (with help from the wonderful winemakers here at this forum).


----------



## Bodenski

So today I went ahead and stabilized the Pinot Grigio. pH is 3.2, TA is .625, SG This morning is 1.004. Taste is very fruity, which is what a I was going for. 

I think I need to bump up the TA a little, but all I have is acid blend at the house (I normally do country wines). I'll pick some up some straight tartaric acid Tuesday to have around the house, and I'll add it sometime when I'm degassing. There is a lot of CO2 in this right now, even though it was never a vigorous ferment. I might bring the temp up to 70+ with the heating belt so that I can give it a good degassing in a few days. 

Overall I'm really happy with this batch so far. (I shook it like crazy before the taste sample this time. What a difference that makes!). This bucket was the impulse buy. The Cabernet is what I was planning all along. That might end up in the carboys today as well. Once you get in the rhythm of washing dishes it's easier to just keep going!


----------



## Ajmassa

Ah yes. The impulse buys are the best. Act first, ask questions later. 
Are you concerned with CO2 for a specific reason? This is a fresh juice pale from Harford correct? So your probably going to age it for quite a bit. I wouldn't be sweating Co2 at all at this point. There's no clearing agent that requires degassing, and not bottling any time soon. If anything you've got an extra blanket of protection for a bit. 
Before last year seasonal juice pales were all I did. No whites though. But usually they were gas free and clearing by the 2nd bulk age rack. To be honest though I mainly didn't wanna screw things up by getting fancy. (Yes, a clearing agent and manually degassing I would have considered "fancy" then) And always knew that with enough patience Father Time would degas and clear for me.


----------



## Bodenski

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Ah yes. The impulse buys are the best. Act first, ask questions later.
> Are you concerned with CO2 for a specific reason? This is a fresh juice pale from Harford correct? So your probably going to age it for quite a bit. I wouldn't be sweating Co2 at all at this point. There's no clearing agent that requires degassing, and not bottling any time soon. If anything you've got an extra blanket of protection for a bit.
> Before last year seasonal juice pales were all I did. No whites though. But usually they were gas free and clearing by the 2nd bulk age rack. To be honest though I mainly didn't wanna screw things up by getting fancy. (Yes, a clearing agent and manually degassing I would have considered "fancy" then) And always knew that with enough patience Father Time would degas and clear for me.



I"m not known for my patience 

Here's an interesting note. These are two different 3 gallon carboys of my Cabernet. Same juice, same yeast. The only difference is the one on the left came from the bucket where I added the lug of grapes (in a bag). When I degas the wine, the one that had the grapes the bubbles all disappear very quickly. When I degas the one that didn't have the grapes in it the bubbles stick around much, much longer. I wonder why there is such a marked difference in behavior? Do the tannins from the added grapes do this? Or is it just mother nature being mother nature?


----------



## Ajmassa

I'm curious about that too.


----------



## AZMDTed

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I'm curious about that too.



I'm not sure, but my experience leads me to think that material, such as grapes, create points in fermenting wine from which CO2 bubbles are formed and released. Thus, wine with skins will degas more during fermentation than just juice. At least that's a theory I have based on loose skins versus skins in a bag.


----------



## ceeaton

We have enough science gurus (_an influential teacher or popular expert_) around here that I would think one of them would spend some time helping us to explain what might be happening between the two carboys. 

If not I think they should ante _(a stake put up by a winemaker for failing to solve all of our winemaking issues_) up their best wine and send us each a bottle, agree?


----------



## mainshipfred

After my 17 day slow ferment experiment of my Syrah and one lug on the skins I'm down to SG .993. Pressed the skins and racked after the second day. When I tasted it it is nothing like my other kit wines. It's a big mouthfeel and a half. This weekend I plan on racking it again and put it in my barrel. My concern is with it being this bold will the barrel be too much?


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> After my 17 day slow ferment experiment of my Syrah and one lug on the skins I'm down to SG .993. Pressed the skins and racked after the second day. When I tasted it it is nothing like my other kit wines. It's a big mouthfeel and a half. This weekend I plan on racking it again and put it in my barrel. My concern is with it being this bold will the barrel be too much?



Remember, it's really, really young at this point. I think the "boldness" may be attributed to some rough edges that most young wines have, plus you had it on those skins pretty long (not a bad thing in my opinion). I think your barrel time will only enhance the wine and help some of the rough edges round off with the micro-oxidation it will experience.

Now as you know I don't have a barrel, but in my dream world that is how it _should_ work.


----------



## Boatboy24

I agree with Craig and have nothing more to add.


----------



## mainshipfred

Thanks Craig and Jim, I did take the young harshness into consideration but man from what I remember it is totally 
different from my kit wines at that stage. Barrel on tomorrow it is.


----------



## Boatboy24

Are you planning on doing MLF in the barrel?


----------



## mainshipfred

I added it on day 11 when the SP was 1.016. Haven't researched MLB very much so I may have to do it again in the barrel.


----------



## ceeaton

If you send me a sample of your wine in a few weeks I can test it along side mine, I'll have plenty of space on the test paper. I usually wait a month to test the progress of mine, so the middle of June will be a month. If you P.M. me I can give you my address and when we get back from vacation if you are interested.


----------



## Boatboy24

You're welcome to use my chromatography kit.


----------



## mainshipfred

Thank you both very much. I may take Jim up though since he's nearly my neighbor.


----------



## mainshipfred

Don't want to sound too much like a newbie but I a so I will. First barrel filled.


----------



## Boatboy24

Looks good, Fred. FWIW, I usually forego the racking can and put the hose directly into the barrel. One less thing to clean.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Looks good, Fred. FWIW, I usually forego the racking can and put the hose directly into the barrel. One less thing to clean.



Yeah, I just do it so the hose doesn't come out. I had it happen once but I probably wasn't being very careful. Thanks though. Have fun at your cook out tomorrow. I'll be on the boat trouble shooting my nav lights and horn. About a year ago they quit working and I want to get my Coast Guard inspection this year.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Yeah, I just do it so the hose doesn't come out. I had it happen once but I probably wasn't being very careful. Thanks though. Have fun at your cook out tomorrow. I'll be on the boat trouble shooting my nav lights and horn. About a year ago they quit working and I want to get my Coast Guard inspection this year.



I had it come out once as well. Use a longer hose now, and/or get one of the kids to hold it in place. I need to talk to Steve - he makes a bung for the AI1 that will fit this barrel opening.


----------



## ceeaton

Approximately a month after pitching MLB so I did my first test. Looks like the Syrah is all done (both the main carboy and 4L jug). Activity had died down before I went on vacation but I didn't find the time to test it. After doing some paperwork with my wife I plan to rack and Kmeta both. I also have to rack my Chianti off some lees and Kmeta (which I forgot to do). I was worried that it was showing some airlock activity and without Kmeta it may have been a spontaneous MLF. Looks like the Malic is still very strong in that one (CH on the sheet). Don't want any MLF in the Chianti since I'm trying to replicate a Cranberry Chianti wine that my wife adores, which requires some back sweetening with cranberry juice, so that throws a sorbate addition into it's future, don't need any geraniums in my wine. Wanna see if there is any taste improvement using a juice bucket verses the kit. I'm assuming the kit uses some artificial flavors in the f-pack.


----------



## ceeaton

Just noticed my Muscato carboy was blurping a bit. Checked my notes attached to the carboy and realized that I hadn't yet added any Kmeta (my bad). Worried that a wild MLF started up, so I racked and added ~ 1/3 tsp of Kmeta for 6 gallons. Guess this might have to be a dry Muscato, which isn't a terribly bad thing (unless you are my wife or SIL). Tasted pretty darn good and is pretty clear for not having added any clearing agents. Will have to work on doing some AIO rackings down the road.

Question. If I took a small sample of the wine and added some sorbate, how long would it take to be able to tell if a wild MLF started up (by a geranium smell)? Is it an immediate aroma that develops, or does it take time? I've never experienced it and don't want to start now, but also don't want to ruin a 6 gallon batch of Muscato if a wild MLF did actually start up. Any insight/shared personal experience is appreciated.


----------



## Bodenski

Just a little update. Had my first real glass of the Chilean Pinot Grigio this past weekend. I had several family members try a glass, and they all liked it. I didn’t take it completely dry, so there is just a little residual sweetness. ( took it to 1.001 according to my notes). It has a bit of an “earthy” taste to me, but I have no idea if I’m using that term the same way anyone else would! But the people who tried it all said it tasted like Pinot Grigio, and would drink it again. SO I’m calling it success! This was from my 1/2 gallon jug that Didn’t fit in the 5 gallon carboy.

I also have two three-gallon carboys with the South African Cabernet. From my rough estimate, MLF finished in both (took several weeks longer in one than the other) so they are both now sitting on oak chips (no barrel yet) and bulk aging. I figure these will go much longer before I sample & share compared to what I’m doing with the Pinot. I have high hopes for it.


----------



## ceeaton

Bodenski said:


> Just a little update. Had my first real glass of the Chilean Pinot Grigio this past weekend. I had several family members try a glass, and they all liked it. I didn’t take it completely dry, so there is just a little residual sweetness. ( took it to 1.001 according to my notes). It has a bit of an “earthy” taste to me, but I have no idea if I’m using that term the same way anyone else would! But the people who tried it all said it tasted like Pinot Grigio, and would drink it again. SO I’m calling it success! This was from my 1/2 gallon jug that Didn’t fit in the 5 gallon carboy.
> 
> I also have two three-gallon carboys with the South African Cabernet. From my rough estimate, MLF finished in both (took several weeks longer in one than the other) so they are both now sitting on oak chips (no barrel yet) and bulk aging. I figure these will go much longer before I sample & share compared to what I’m doing with the Pinot. I have high hopes for it.



That's awesome! I think I didn't start drinking my PG until around Thanksgiving time, so the fact that you and others think it tastes good is a good sign. It should only continue to get better! Don't worry about the descriptions, "earthy" is what it tastes to you, and we don't own your taste buds. If you like it, I'd call it a success too!

I'm happy this has worked out for you because success breeds enthusiasm and the chance that you will keep doing this for a long time. This is one of those "sports" we can continue until we are old and gray and feeble of mind, and I like that!


----------



## Bodenski

Good evening all! We are about 10 months (I think) into these batches. I gave away nearly all of my Pinot Grigio over Christmas, and I've heard nothing but good things back about them. I let if finish a tad sweet, which I don't think I'd do again for a Pinot Grigio. My one friend who probably has the most refined palette said that it didn't taste like a typical pinot, but "don't get me wrong, we threw the whole thing down and loved it." If I'd have just labeled it a table white that would have been fine for him! Since I gave out a majority I only have three bottles left (I think). I don't think I'll make another Chilean batch this year, but can easily see me doing that again in 2019.

My South African Cabernet is coming along OK. I'm not nearly as excited about this one. I might have to add a little acid to bring a tad more life to it. I don't need the carboys soon, so I have no problem just letting this one bulk age a little longer. (I'm adding campden tablets every three months or so at this point. I think that's the right thing to do.) Maybe this summer on a lazy day I'll bottle this and see how it goes. Maybe I'll tip the carboy a bit tonight and see how it's coming along. 

I mainly make meads, and I've been very impressed with how those change over time. Will the same hold true with a Cabernet, or when should I expect it to "peak" at? It clearly evolves over time, but I'm not sure if it will as much as my meads have.


----------



## Ajmassa

I really do enjoy giving out bottles to friends as well. Just a good feeling.
Regarding cabs transforming I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. 1yr the wines a baby still. Pretty rare to see any cab on the shelf younger than 2yrs. Those high abv high acid high tannin high $ Napa Cabs I bet closer to 5 yrs.
Just based on my own experiences it seems like the bigger the wine the better transformation. My favorite wine I’ve made, a Cali juice bucket Cab, was just ok at 1 year but exceptional at 3yrs (also the longest wine I ever aged not coincidentally). Got a couple going now that are fruit bombs loaded with tannin. High hopes that age will allow everything to fall into place. 
Never had a mead so I can’t compare.


----------



## mainshipfred

Bodenski said:


> Good evening all! We are about 10 months (I think) into these batches. I gave away nearly all of my Pinot Grigio over Christmas, and I've heard nothing but good things back about them. I let if finish a tad sweet, which I don't think I'd do again for a Pinot Grigio. My one friend who probably has the most refined palette said that it didn't taste like a typical pinot, but "don't get me wrong, we threw the whole thing down and loved it." If I'd have just labeled it a table white that would have been fine for him! Since I gave out a majority I only have three bottles left (I think). I don't think I'll make another Chilean batch this year, but can easily see me doing that again in 2019.
> 
> My South African Cabernet is coming along OK. I'm not nearly as excited about this one. I might have to add a little acid to bring a tad more life to it. I don't need the carboys soon, so I have no problem just letting this one bulk age a little longer. (I'm adding campden tablets every three months or so at this point. I think that's the right thing to do.) Maybe this summer on a lazy day I'll bottle this and see how it goes. Maybe I'll tip the carboy a bit tonight and see how it's coming along.
> 
> I mainly make meads, and I've been very impressed with how those change over time. Will the same hold true with a Cabernet, or when should I expect it to "peak" at? It clearly evolves over time, but I'm not sure if it will as much as my meads have.



James, why are you skipping this years spring harvest? Sounds like you had nice success with last years. I also never made mead but it's on my list to do.


----------

