# Liquid Yeast: Yes or No?



## Jeff H (May 21, 2008)

I'm about ready to start 2 BrewHouse kits. A Honey Blond Ale and an IPA. Been over at the BrewHouse and RJS sites and there seems to be compeling reasons to go with liquid yeasts. I've never made beer and these will be the only beer kits I will do this year. For these reasons I would like to get the best out of these kits. Should I make them as packaged or go for the liquid yeast? If go for the liquid yeast, then which types for these kits? Majority opinion will rule so vote early and vote often (Illinois political rules),




. Thanks!~ Jeff


P.S. - Honey Ale will be first, immediately followed by the IPA. Should I leave the yeast bits (trub?)in the primary and start the IPA with it?


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## Dean (May 21, 2008)

Honey Blonde with Wyeast 1056 American Ale and the IPA with 1098 British Ale or the new 1332 Northwest Ale. The Northwest Ale will give you an IPA closer to what you'd find in the craft brewers around Portland, Seattle & Vancouver. We love our hoppy IPAs!

However, if you wanted to do only 1 batch on the old yeast, then 1056 would serve both.


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## summersolstice (May 22, 2008)

I've only made 6 batches of beer so far - two extracts, three partial mashes, and one all grain. I used liquid yeast in my first two batches and they worked well. Since then I've used dry yeast. I too like pale ales and I've used Safale US-05 and Nottingham dry yeasts. They're not only much cheaper but they don't require special handling (ice packs this time of year) and I think they provide an authentic taste for ales. I think you'll see that both work well and it just depends upon your preferences. Since I'm a wine and mead maker, I trust dry yeasts since I've always used them.


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## Jeff H (May 22, 2008)

Hey Dean, Thanks! 


I don't have a preference regarding using the old yeast, just something I read.Is there any advantage to doing this?


On the Brewhouse site for the Imperial IPA they mention 1056 too. In the descriptions:


1056: This strain ferments dry, finishes soft, smooth and clean, and is very well balanced. 


1098: Ferments dry and crisp, slightly tart, fruity and well-balanced.


1332: Produces a malty and mildly fruity ale with good depth and complexity.


They all sound good, I'm not sure about slightly tart, fruityor malty, mildly fruityon the 1098 and 1332 though. Are the fruity characteristics strong?


How are the 125ml Wyeast XL Activator packs? I'm thinking of going that route? 


Thanks again for the quick response to my questions. Jeff


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## Jackie (May 22, 2008)

I much prefer liquid yeast. I like the 1056 forthe honey blond ale (and actually I use it for most ales except porters/stouts). I've never made an IPA though. The Wyeast XL activator packs do fine and can be just pitched directly for an ale (for a lager, I always make a starter). I generally take one liquid yeast and make two starters so I can do two beers off it and then I save the slurry after fermentation and do it again. However, I have used Nottingham dry yeast with good results too.I don't care for the Coopers yeast that comes with the kits.


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## Dean (May 22, 2008)

I think I have a pretty developed palate, but I cannot detect "fruity" in any ale I've produced. I'm going to try a few with cherry and raspberry adjuncts, but those are supposed to be fruity beers anyways.

That flowery language they use for the yeasts needs to be revised for the rest of the public. You cannot go wrong with any of these strains.

Reusing the old yeast just saves money and starts the next beer off with massive colony of yeast to get to work right away. You should see visible signs of fermentation within 1 hour at most.

I've used the activator packs and the regular smack packs and made my own starter. I prefer that route now due to cost and larger yeast colonies in your own starter. Just boil a cup of light DME for 25 minutes in 1 cup of water. Then add to a sanitized starter jar or bottle, bring the volume up to 1L and add the smackpack. Wait 24 hours and you'll have a nice HUGE colony of yeast to pitch.

If you go the starter route, remember to re-hydrate your must to only 22L as you will be adding one liter of liquid with your yeast.


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## uavwmn (May 22, 2008)

Dean, I am going to make another "no boil" Irish Stout kit. This time with liquid yeast.


A store in Tucson carries the liquid yeast. What yeast would compliment this beer?


PS. The first kit was delicious. Nice nutty flavor, not thick bodied.


uavwmn


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## Dean (May 22, 2008)

1084 Irish Ale works great for Stout. I also love the 1084 yeast with red or copper ales too. Absolutely fantastic.

This will produce a stout that is dry, but malty and chocolatey. Just what a stout should be for my palate. You could try to sour some and add it back in, carbonate with nitrogen 70% and CO2 30% mix to make a guiness clone. I've not tried to do that yet, although I do love guiness.


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## smurfe (May 22, 2008)

Jeff H said:


> I'm about ready to start 2 BrewHouse kits. A Honey Blond Ale and an IPA. Been over at the BrewHouse and RJS sites and there seems to be compeling reasons to go with liquid yeasts. I've never made beer and these will be the only beer kits I will do this year. For these reasons I would like to get the best out of these kits. Should I make them as packaged or go for the liquid yeast? If go for the liquid yeast, then which types for these kits? Majority opinion will rule so vote early and vote often (Illinois political rules),
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I opened up one of my brewing bibles, Brewing Classic Styles which is a must have book if you brew beer. Here is what Jamil recommends:


Blonde Ale:


White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
Fermentis Safale US-05


For the IPA it all depends on if it is an English IPA or an American IPA. American IPA's are much "hoppier" and I imagine these kits are going to represent an English IPA. Referring to my bible it suggests:


English IPA:


White Labs WLP013 London Ale
Wyeast 1028 London Ale
Danstar Nottingham (I would use Fermentis Safale S-04)


American IPA:


White Labs WLP001 American Ale
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
Fermentis Safale US-05


Note that you could use the yeast strain from either IPA list for your brew. It sounds like you are new to beer brewing and not experienced to making starters. If you go the liquid yeast route and don't want to make a starter buy either 2 vials of the White Labs, two packets of the Wyeast Propagator packets and pitch directlyor you can buy one Wyeast Activator packet that will make it's own starter. If you use a dry yeast get 2 packets of the Safale yeasts. 


Lets talk dry yeast real quick. I have not been brewing beer too long and have always used White Labs vials with great success. I don't have a local homebrew shop so I decided to try some of the Fermentis Safale yeasts recommended in the book I referred to as well as recommendations from many on the beer forums. I have to say that thus far, every beer I have made from the Fermentis yeasts have been perfect. The Safale US-05 is a perfect replacement for the liquid American Ale yeasts. It is the same strain freeze dried.I brewed a 10 gallon IPA batch and split in half. One batch used White Labs WLP001 and other Safale US-05. Both great! I brewed a couple lagers with the Safale S-23, came out great. 


I am not advocating use of dry yeast but just throwing out there that there are some good dry yeast alternatives if you do not have a local home brew shop to buy fresh liquid yeasts. With summer coming upon us it will be tough to get the yeasts from a vendor to you still cold ordering from the Internet. If you do order it, make sure you pay extra for the "cooling" options most vendors offer. Also, you might order from a closer vendor. 


I personally won't order online in the summer as the one time I did, even with the cold packs my yeast showed up warm. I personally drive 250 miles one way to Houston when I want to buy liquid yeasts. This is one reason I decided to experiment with the Fermentis yeasts. So far so good and if any recipe calls for an American Ale yeast, English Ale yeast, or a German Lager yeast, I am going to use the Fermentis from now on. Something for those out there to consider. The yeasts that come with the BrewHouse kits are not the best quality yeast strains. 


Now, in regards to pitching on a yeast cake. All I can say is you can and many do it but it isn't really recommended. While everyone thinks it is cool to get the almost instant fermentation to start this is actually a bit detrimental to your beer as it places a tremendous strain on the yeast and they can basically burn themselves out too quick causing a poor attenuation of the yeast. You really should harvest the yeast and make a new starter and add to sterile wort in a sanitized carboy. Like I said though, many do it and I have seen many that get 7-10 batches off one yeast cake. We did it one time and I didn't care for the flavor profile I got from the re-pitch over a fresh pitch. 


So whats all this long winded blabber boil down to? If I were you and I had a local HBS I would trot down and get some liquid yeast. Have them teach you how to do a starter or buy 2 vials or packets unless they have Wyeast Activator packs. I would go with the American Ale yeast for both kits as I prefer its flavor profile, attenuation and flocculation. It fits each beer perfectly. If you don't have a LHBS to shop and order from the Internet I would get 4 packets of the Fermentis Safale US-05 or order a couple packets of the Wyeast 1056 American Ale Activator packs and make sure to use every option available to keep the yeast cool during shipping. 


If it were me I would personally just use the Fermentis Dry if I had to order online unless I splurged for overnight shipping for the liquid. Remember, it gets very hot inside those trucks and you don't know how long for sure it will sit in the heat. You don't know the viability of the yeast when shipped. If it were very fresh, it will probably make it OK. If it were a bit on the aged side and then shipped, it will be really stressed and kill a lot of cells. I have became a huge fan and supporter of the Fermentis brand of dry yeasts. Many breweries now use it and so do I! 


Good luck on those brews. I am going to brew an all grainAmerican IPA tomorrow. I have a vial of White Labs American Ale yeast I need to use up as it is getting old.


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## Waldo (May 22, 2008)

What yeast was that you said to use smurf ?


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## pizz65 (May 22, 2008)

LOL.....Waldo


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## Jeff H (May 22, 2008)

Smurfe,


Wow.... thank you for taking the time to post allof that info. I understand so much better about my yeast choices. Thank you very much! I've decided to get 2 of the Wyeast 1056's or equivalent. I wantto start one kit this weekend so I'm trying to find them somewhat close.If not I'll buy online (from as close as possible) and order the cold pak!.


Jeff


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## Jackie (May 23, 2008)

I don't have a local supplier so I order everything online. I've never had any problem with liquid yeast ordered with a cold pack even early in summer like now. I try to order where delivery is in the "2 day" range and I avoid ordering liquid yeast in mid-July and Aug when temps here are 100 degrees (but then being able to reuse the yeast with a new starter really comes in handy). I also order very early in the week so there's no chance of being held over a weekend. 

I'm making two starters today with yeast saved from my last batch today for a BrewHouse Mexican Cervesa and another light lager I'll be making from extract. Hot weather means lots of light beer consumption around here. 
*Edited by: Jackie *


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## Jeff H (May 23, 2008)

Smurfe or Dean, 


My local HBS has the following:


*WLP060 American Ale Yeast Blend*
Our most popular yeast strain is WLP001, California Ale Yeast. This blend celebrates the strengths of California- clean, neutral fermentation, versatile usage, and adds two other strains that belong to the same 'clean/neutral' flavor category. The additional strains create complexity to the finished beer. This blend tastes more lager like than WLP001. Hop flavors and bitterness are accentuated, but not to the extreme of California. Slight sulfur will be produced during fermentation.
*Attenuation*: 72-80%
*Flocculation*: Medium
*Optimum Fermentation Temperature*: 68-72°F
*Alcohol Tolerance*: Medium High<O> 






Do you think this would work also? If so, does this need to be "grown" or do you just pitch it in? What do you think about the statement "This blend tastes more lager like than WLP001". Thanks, Jeff.


Edit: I can get this one too:


*WLP002 En**glish Ale Yeast*<O> 
A classic ESB strain from one of England's largest independent breweries. This yeast is best suited for English style ales including milds, bitters, porters, and English style stouts. This yeast will leave a beer very clear, and will leave some residual sweetness.<?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O> </O>
</O></O>*Edited by: Jeff H *


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## smurfe (May 23, 2008)

I am kind of confused by the description. WLP001 tastes more lager like than WLP001? That sounds like WLP060.Anyway, WLP001 would be a great yeast for either of these beers as would WLP060.It ferments a nice, crisp brew. It is my overall favorite liquidale yeast.If you don't want to make a starter buy two vials for a batchand you can just dump them in. The Fermentis Safale US-05yeast I recommended as well is this same strain. You won't go wrong using the WLP001 in most any ale. 


The WLP002 would would work to. It will not ferment as crisp and will leave a bit of fruity ester flavor profile which means there will be a tad bit of sweetness left with less dry mouth-feel. This strain is common for Pale Ales but not normally IPA's although it would work. I believe it isa bit less attenutive and will leave just abit lower alcohol level that is desired in a session beer.This is the strain I use when I make a Stout although I sometimes use the Irish (WPL004)ale strain. The Fermentis Safale S-04 is this strain. 


Either will work fine. I wish I had a comprehensive LHBS so I could just pop in for a vial of White Labs when I got the whim to brew. You won't go wrong with their yeasts. Either will work fine butI would lean toward the WLP001 if it were me. It is a great yeast strain.


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## Jeff H (May 23, 2008)

Smurfe, 


Geez I'm a damn idiot! The correct title is .*WLP060 American Ale Yeast Blend* I editted the post and I changed the damn title by mistake. S0 sorry about that. It's been a bad day in Black Rock. 


Jeff*Edited by: Jeff H *


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## Dean (May 24, 2008)

Whitelabs yeast is hard to get in my area, so I'll defer to Smurfe on this one.


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## smurfe (May 24, 2008)

No problem and that WLP060 will work fine as well. I have used it for lawn mower type ales. It is a bit drier and crisper than the WLP001.I used it recently for a Cream Ale. Itwas the perfect yeast for it.You won't be disappointed with either. *Edited by: smurfe *


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## Jeff H (May 24, 2008)

Smurfe,


Since it's available locally I'm gonna go for the 060. Why 2 vials per batch? Just extra assurance of a good ferment?


Lawn Mower type ales - guilty as charged! 


Thanks again - Jeff.


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## Jeff H (May 24, 2008)

Dean,
Thanks for the guidance, I appreciate it!


Jeff


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## smurfe (May 24, 2008)

Jeff H said:


> Smurfe,
> 
> 
> Since it's available locally I'm gonna go for the 060. Why 2 vials per batch? Just extra assurance of a good ferment?
> ...




Yes, that is correct. To get a decent viable yeast cell count to decrease the lag time. You could probably get by with one vial but on the norm you make a starter with the one vial to increase the yeast population. The WLP060 will work great. Now, back to my all grain Witbier we are getting ready to brew today!


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## Jeff H (May 24, 2008)

Smurfe,


Thanks again - enjoy the weekend!


Jeff


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