# Why add raisins



## grapecrusher

I have seen on a few threads about adding raisins during secondary fermentation What does that add to the wine? Is it significant ?


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## ibglowin

Raisins are often used as they are a easy and inexpensive way to increase the body of a wine. They add to the TDS or Total Dissolved Solids in a wine. They can improve the mouth-feel of the wine by increasing its viscosity. This gives the wine a heartier, overall impression. It also causes the fruit flavors to linger on the tongue longer, producing a fruitier impression.


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## grapecrusher

Sounds like what I'm looking for. How much do you put in a 5gal carboy and how long?


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## derunner

Hopefully I can tack on a few more questions as I as thinking of adding them to the WE Mezza Luna Red kit I just bought. It was a bit thin and i was hoping raisins will help. 

Why add to secondary and not primary? I was thinking you would chop them and put them in a strainer bag and squeeze daily during primary fermentation.


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## cpfan

grapecrusher said:


> I have seen on a few threads about adding raisins during secondary fermentation What does that add to the wine? Is it significant ?


I thought that most people added the raisins during primary.

Steve


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## robie

derunner said:


> Why add to secondary and not primary? I was thinking you would chop them and put them in a strainer bag and squeeze daily during primary fermentation.



In the past, I had always added raisins to primary. Joe of Joeswine is who recently started recommending adding them to secondary. If it were me, I would listen to Joe, as he has been doing this for many years and knows how to make some great wine.

The only exception might be if the kit comes with raisins and the kit manufacturer recommends adding them during primary. Just follow the instructions.


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## grapecrusher

I don't use kits so I have no directions to follow hoping someone can give advice


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## Rocky

Grapecrusher, I have always used them in primary but based on Joe's suggestion, I am getting ready to try them in secondary in my Sangiovese-Cabernet Sauvignon blend. Joe 'do know' wine!


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## TommBomb

So in the secondary u just add them with out the fruit bag? U must need to rack a few more times after to ensure the clarity is there?


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## robie

TommBomb said:


> So in the secondary u just add them with out the fruit bag? U must need to rack a few more times after to ensure the clarity is there?



I think Joe's post said in secondary he added 1 pound of raisins to 5 or 6 gallons of wine. If you use non-organic raisins, pre-rinse the raisins to get any sulfites off their surface.

You can add them with or without the bag. I, personally would add them with the bag because I hate the mess of trying to rack and getting the tube stopped up constantly. Lost of wine makers don't seem to mind.

Fermentation is still going on in secondary. When the raisins are added, fermentation will pick up some and last a little longer, which is not a problem.

At the end of secondary, rack off as usual, leaving the raisins behind. Clearing should not be any slower or more difficult than normal.


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## TommBomb

Thanks, but isn't it hard to get a fruit bag in and out of a glass carboy?


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## derunner

TommBomb said:


> Thanks, but isn't it hard to get a fruit bag in and out of a glass carboy?



I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how it would be to add the bag of raisins to primary on day 4 or 5 and then ferment to dry in the primary?


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## Chiumanfu

I've only used raisins in the secondary a couple times now. I rack from primary bucket to secondary carboy at around 1.030 and just add the raisins straight to the carboy. They just end up sinking to the bottom and are easily racked off along with all the rest of the lees.


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## Runningwolf

Rocky said:


> Grapecrusher, I have always used them in primary but based on Joe's suggestion, I am getting ready to try them in secondary in my Sangiovese-Cabernet Sauvignon blend. Joe 'do know' wine!


 
Ditto what Rocky said. Joe put me in time out yeasterday for even thinking about straying.


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## joeswine

*rasins in the secondary*

take a look at the pics on when good wines gone bad,you'll see the raisins at the bottom of the carboy not cut ,left whole not that hard to handle,no stress..

think of it as making a sauce..........


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## Gowers Choice

Is this just for grape wines or would it help country fruit wines as well?


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## joeswine

*adding rasins*

basically for big red wines,not for fruit,there a different animal all together.


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## whackfol

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## joeswine

*adding rasins*

OK,lets say I buy your thoughts ,then tell me what can the average wine maker using grapes or fresh juice do to add body to a wine other than adding a concentrate which a lot of winery have gone to ,but we can get into that later,and have you ever tried rasins and to what end did it arrive at?,did you follow my process ,or ? AND ARE YOU SURE THE PROCESS OF MAKING RASINS (ALL) ARE THE SAME?


always willing to learn something new....


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## cocroach

This is an interesting thread. I like any wine to be full-bodied, however; wouldn't adding raisins also make the wine much sweeter that it should be?


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## joeswine

*cocroach*

 how old is your amarone?and when you got the kit what was it's make-up?


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## whackfol

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## joeswine

*rasins in the wine*

ALL these items are great unto themselves,and I do think we, at one time or the other,touched upon them,if you read (when good wines gone bad) you will fine all the above is and has been touch upon,not saying that the addition of rasins at the proper time isn't also a method that we as home wine makers can and also employ,and not a negative additive,there are many winemakers on this site who have employed this method and have been successfull with it ,this is a method used as far back as the roman times,not good for all occasions but it's still a tool in the boxto work with if and when desired.


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## whackfol

To each his own. I would never consider adding raisins.


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## ibglowin

whackfol said:


> To each his own. I would never consider adding raisins.



You have said your opinion here. Time to move on......


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## derunner

joeswine said:


> basically for big red wines,not for fruit,there a different animal all together.



What about adding raisins to a red table wine kit like WE Mezza Luna Red. would it improve such a kit? To me my first attemptat this kit is OK, but seems thin / watery when you swirl it around the glass.

My wine shop also mentioned adding a juice concentraite to improve the wine.


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## novalou

derunner said:


> What about adding raisins to a red table wine kit like WE Mezza Luna Red. would it improve such a kit? To me my first attemptat this kit is OK, but seems thin / watery when you swirl it around the glass.
> 
> My wine shop also mentioned adding a juice concentraite to improve the wine.



Buy a wine kit that comes with either more concentrate or grape skins.


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## tonyt

I add raisins to most of my kit wine that does not come with grape pack or raisins. I believe after 30 kits that they add mouthfeel and new style fruit forward taste. It works for me without a doubt.


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## joeswine

*Thinking outside the box*

As an average home winemaker we sometimes do not have all the tools that we need and are subject to the product that were given to make a decent wine, that being said we can only use the tools in are toolbox that we have and a lot of winemakers out there do not have as many tools as a should . Whether it is due to financing or a place to do it , or any other number of things that can restrict your wine making abilities , not just what you know. So we tend to *think outside the box ,at least I would hope most of use, purist or not . We try to think. What do I do if I did not have the tools my possession . How do I make it better with the least possible cost and still be effective and tasteful, and I think that most of us understand we do what we can,we experiment, we try, and we do, whether we lose or fail we never stop( thinking outside the box .)*


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## tonyt

Very well said Joe. That sounds like me. We ask for help from each other and do the best we can with the tools we have.


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## joeswine

*derunner*

if I'm NOT MISTAKEN THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A BIG RED,BY ALL MEANS TRY THE RASINS IN THE SECONDARY,DOES THIS KIT COME WITH POWDERED OAK?IF NOT APPLY SOME AND IT WILL BE A BIG RED IN TIME.


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## peaches9324

*to joeswine or anyone with an opinion on additions*

I bought one of those thin cab kits Vino Italiano and I also bought 46 oz of sun country cab to thicken it up a bit, I have some oak to add and I was thinking bout adding the cacao nibs I just bought on closeout special to make it heavy more like a port, was thinking about adding raisons after reading what everybody adds .. I never made any additions to my kits before was to scared I would mess them up and be out of money any suggestions would be much appreciated!

thanks


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## joeswine

*Peaches9324*

Once you start to tweak you are never sure what the true outcome my be are you willing to lose it if it don't work out or are you willing to take a chance to make it better?


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## kevinlfifer

I am going to do a similar thing to that Cab.

I did this with a Red Zin

46 oz Alexander red zin conc.​1 1/4 tsp peptic enzyme
1 cup boiled with water light toast American oak 
8 lb recycled grape skin packs, 1- rjs, 2-paklab

There were more skins than I needed but it turned out very good.​ 
For this Cab I am using 2 lbs or so Marquette skins in primary, but no concentrate. Oak and enzyme to get as much from the skins as I can.​ 
In secondary a lb of raisins and 2-3 Tbs of tannin (per Joes method)​ 
I used the raisin/tannin method in a Paklab cab/shz and cab/merlot. Both are clearing now and my initial impression is that it really helped.


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## kevinlfifer

Changed the plan above for the Vino Italiano Cab:
Full 6 gal batch
5 lb of maquette skins
3 lb sugar to grt to sg 1.10
1.5 tsp enzyme
1 tbs nutrient
3/4 cup light oak chips - boiled with that water added​
71-B-1122 yeast (need the MLF it provides)​
Total ingredient cost $43.85 +/-​
I will add 3 Tbs tannin and 1 lb raisins in the secondary and keep eyeryone posted on the results.​


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## jswordy

kevinlfifer said:


> Changed the plan above for the Vino Italiano Cab:
> Full 6 gal batch
> 5 lb of maquette skins
> 3 lb sugar to grt to sg 1.10
> 1.5 tsp enzyme
> 1 tbs nutrient
> 3/4 cup light oak chips - boiled with that water added​
> 71-B-1122 yeast (need the MLF it provides)​
> Total ingredient cost $43.85 +/-​
> I will add 3 Tbs tannin and 1 lb raisins in the secondary and keep eyeryone posted on the results.​



Yes, please do! I'll be watching this.


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## peaches9324

Joe is there a particular kind of raison you use?


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## tonyt

I don't know what Joe does but I use Organic Red Flame Raisins from Whole Foods. Zack suggests dried Currants.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Wine Making mobile app


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## joeswine

*raisins in the wine*

I HAVE USED SUNMAID AND ZANTES BOTH HAVE WORKED OUT WELL FOR ME  JUST REMEMBER WHEN YOU START TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX YOUR GOING WERE MOST CONVENTIONAL WINE MAKERS WON'T GO,ARE YOU PREPARED TO TRY?


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## blueflint

Two questions...

1.) has anyone tried blueberries, either frozen or dried in the secondary? I would not think for a big red but a middle road type?

2.) I have a 9 month old Cab from a kit in a glass carboy that really isn't good, very thin, not much flavor. What can I do at this point to help it? It was a Winexpert kit, I added 10 ounces of Zante Currants in the primary, it also had 2 ounces of med toast oak in primary. What to add at this point? Maybe a little oak chips? I don't want it like licking an oak board though. Any thoughts?

Thanks

-Tony


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## Floandgary

Just sorbated and degassed a Chilean Malbec from secondary (@.993). Adding 1# dried black currant for a month or so. Will strain them out then age (in carboy) for several more months. Similarly, 1# dried cherries to a Zinfandel,,,,,and some dried white raisins to a Sauv Blanc. Wondering what to expect?


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## joeswine

*expectations*

you should expect once you've completed, a deeper, richer and smoother tasting wine ,nothing more or less...follow the process to the finish and don't rush.....


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## Floandgary

If I'm learning anything, it's more patience! Finally having enough drinkable on hand makes it easier to keep stuff in the process to get to that end! Thanks Joe,, that's what I was hoping for


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## Boatboy24

blueflint said:


> 1.) has anyone tried blueberries, either frozen or dried in the secondary? I would not think for a big red but a middle road type?



I've used dried in Primary on a cheap, Vino Italian Cab. Also used raisin and banana in that primary. It's not a bad wine.


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## Floandgary

So much info,,,so little brain space! Having read much advice and many suggestions,, I've come to the conclusion that "try it--you may like it!" could be a bottom line. I do primarily the standard listed wines from juice buckets (Chilean/Californian/Italian/local Great Lakes) as the seasons go, with an occasional fruit concoction for fun. The longstanding question in my process is whether to use additives (oaks/fruits/etc) in primary or, as suggested by a local winemaker, ferment to dry THEN use the additives to impart a desired effect. Following the logic that fermentation is usually done in a neutral vessel then the product is placed in (eg.) oak barrels, I question the benefit of flavoring in the primary. Obviously it works as lotsa folks do it that way too. Just wondering about the whys/whens..


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## TinyPirate

Tempted to add raisins to the feijoa wine I am planning. I am hoping they would add to the mouthfeel on what would otherwise be a sharp wine, as well as stretch out the flavor on the palate as has been suggested is a good side effect. Hmmm!


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