# 2018 - Pinot Noir



## jburtner (Oct 30, 2018)

Hi! I am starting a thread to keep notes and share my Fall 2018 batch of Pinot Noir from Brehm / White Salmon vineyards. I ordered three buckets of frozen must and will use RC212 for AF with some oak chips in primary and a good nutrient protocol. Buckets to arrive later this week. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## JohnT (Oct 30, 2018)

Are you considering doing malolactic fermentation?

In my opinion it would be well worth your while. Pinot Noir just simply craves it.


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## jburtner (Oct 30, 2018)

Oh yes thanks for the reminder! I do have a pack of vp41 and some mlf nutrients so I’m planning to co-innoculate. I guess it’s getting chilly now too especially in the cellar so I might wrap the brute in a packing blanket and use the heating pad so the ml-bugs do well and probably help with extraction also. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## CK55 (Oct 30, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Oh yes thanks for the reminder! I do have a pack of vp41 and some mlf nutrients so I’m planning to co-innoculate. I guess it’s getting chilly now too especially in the cellar so I might wrap the brute in a packing blanket and use the heating pad so the ml-bugs do well and probably help with extraction also.
> 
> Cheers!
> -johann


Make sure you keep on that nutrients cause RC212 really gets crabby and will make hydrogen sulfide if you aren't careful.


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## stickman (Oct 31, 2018)

I second the warning on the nutrients, the YAN listed for those grapes is low, 28ppm and 97ppm is given as the range. This is one of those cases where the standard FermK addition will probably come up short and a supplemental DAP addition may be needed (see ** note).


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## jburtner (Nov 1, 2018)

Thanks for the heads up! I’m reading up on how to determine Fermaid and DAP addition amounts based on low YAN measurements and RC212 yeast type.

I was just going to follow fermaid instructions but this seems to require a little more specific measurement and addition protocol. 

Frozen buckets arrive tomorrow!

Cheers!
Johann


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## Ajmassa (Nov 1, 2018)

But aren’t you just guessing the YAN still?


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## jburtner (Nov 1, 2018)

Brehm provided the YAN measurement range. Attached a screenshot.


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## Ajmassa (Nov 1, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Brehm provided the YAN measurement range. Attached a screenshot. View attachment 52020



Ahh I see. Must be nice.... 

Friendly reminder— there’s a decimal point in that lallzyme dose rate!


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## jburtner (Nov 1, 2018)

Ha ha! Yes the dreaded decimal 

This link explains that for a 25brix must I need about 350 YAN and my yeast multiplier factor for rc212 is 1.25 so the YAN requirement = 350 * 1.25 = 437.5 YAN requirement.

http://nanaimowinemakers.com/adding-nitrogen-fermentations/

If my YAN is close to 28ppm I’ll need to add about 409ppm to bring it up to the 437ppm.

The recommendation is also to use some DAP and with the particularly low YAN to use some DAP even before pitching yeast.

I’ve got 40g of Fermaid O in stock at the moment and will need to pick up some DAP and probably should get some Fermaid K too.

I’ll put together numbers and addition schedule tonight and stop at LHBS tomorrow.

I did not order LallezymeVx this time but I do have a scott color-pro enzyme on hand.

Cheers!
-johann


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## jburtner (Nov 2, 2018)

Hope they have fermaid K and DAP @ LHBS today. Here’s the #’s I came up with so far and hoping some good prevention works. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## stickman (Nov 2, 2018)

The information I have indicates that Fermaid K is only 10% available YAN.


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## jburtner (Nov 2, 2018)

Thanks! I wonder where they got 13% ??? ...And who knows if generic DAP is always 21%.... These grapes are in a range of 28-97ppm/L YAN.

Noted that either too little YAN or too much YAN can contribute to H2S issues during the ferment.

Grapes came in today and they’re still nice and cold - have not opened them yet. 

As these grapes warm up for the pitch I’ll continue to compile the variety of info I have and run those #’s a couple times with some of the different ranges and compare addition schedules. Probably try to come up with a mid range plan and pay attention to the smells and react accordingly on this one with the nutrient schedule. 

Since this is high risk batch I might go agead and order some reduless to have on hand and treat quickly if needed.

Cheers,
Johann


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## stickman (Nov 3, 2018)

Here are the numbers I got using a mid-range 65ppm YAN as a starting point. I don't use any correction for RC212 and no Fermaid O. I'm not telling you to use these numbers, I'm just providing these as a comparison so you can see the variation in how different winemakers might handle a similar must. Fermaid O might be a benefit here, but I haven't used it before so my calculations don't include any.


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## jburtner (Nov 4, 2018)

Yeasties rehydrated w/goferm-protect and acclimating to must temp.


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## Ajmassa (Nov 4, 2018)

Looking forward to following along here. This nutrient protocol you’re on is some ‘next level’ type shit!

Your in it deep man. Deeper then I ever wanna be. Good luck and Godspeed.


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## jburtner (Nov 5, 2018)

This took off within hours last night after pitching and formed a cap. I added the second nutrient feeding this morning and had bumped the YAN prior to pitching yeast and MLB. I wrapped the heating pad on low around the fermenter and temp looks stable between 70-75*F so hope that also helps with a good MLF.

This nutrient blend will end up being added four times total before the must reaches about 1.050 or 50% sugar depletion over the next days and I ordered Reduless to have on hand which arrive tomorrow.

Fermaid K 14.625g
Fermaid O 9.75g
DAP 6.4g

Cheers!
-johann


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## Johnd (Nov 5, 2018)

jburtner said:


> This took off within hours last night after pitching and formed a cap. I added the second nutrient feeding this morning and had bumped the YAN prior to pitching yeast and MLB. I wrapped the heating pad on low around the fermenter and temp looks stable between 70-75*F so hope that also helps with a good MLF.
> 
> This nutrient blend will end up being added four times total before the must reaches about 1.050 or 50% sugar depletion over the next days and I ordered Reduless to have on hand which arrive tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Just pay attention, you know what a healthy ferment looks and smells like, don’t be afraid to act quickly. 

You say that you pitched yeast and MLB, are you using the proper MLB nutrients in addition to your yeast nutrients? Low YAN musts are one of the places that coinoculation risks increase, you don’t want your yeast and bacteria in competition for nutrients and / or food.


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## jburtner (Nov 5, 2018)

Yes thanks! I had some Malo-Opti-Plus that I also added to the must as per directions (1g/gallon) and I did not have any Acti-ML so rehydrated the VP41 with 77*F water for 15 min and hoping keeping it in the 72-78*F range will also help the malo fermentation.

I also added 1lbs of heavy toast american oak chips for AF.

I'm excited for this wine 

Cheers!
-johann


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## Johnd (Nov 5, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Yes thanks! I had some Malo-Opti-Plus that I also added to the must as per directions (1g/gallon) and I did not have any Acti-ML so rehydrated the VP41 with 77*F water for 15 min and hoping keeping it in the 72-78*F range will also help the malo fermentation.
> 
> I also added 1lbs of heavy toast american oak chips for AF.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you're right on track!! Looking forward to hearing how it progresses, should be all over by next weekend!


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## Countrygent (Nov 5, 2018)

This is a really helpful discussion for me. Have some Pinot Noir buckets from Chehalem OR through Wine Grapes Direct and the fruit looks, tastes and smells really great. Had my knickers in a knot over the predicted long start lag pitching AMH yeast. Do you think I could find any info on line about typical lag periods? Use of words like slow or long but no ranges at specified temp, brix ... I was researching strategies for stalled fermentation when late on day 3, finally up came the cap. The grapes came with 8 grams or so of Ferm O per bucket to be thrown 1/2 at 24 hours and 1/2 at 1/3 depletion but from your discussion and my fears of Sulphur ... might just throw in some K and DAP as well at 1/2 depletion, maybe undershoot a little - can't the DAP in fact promote sulphur problems in some situations? There is so much advice out there about avoiding DAP if at all possible. Rookie fears here. 

I am hoping one of the reasons I had an unrecoverable sulphur problem previously with RC-212 and pinot noir (yes, Reduless, copper wire, Noblesse did not cure it) was too hot a fermentation and not getting the gross lees out soon enough. Followed the standard early feeding with modest Ferm K but to no avail. Once bitten, twice shy.


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## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

Countrygent said:


> This is a really helpful discussion for me. Have some Pinot Noir buckets from Chehalem OR through Wine Grapes Direct and the fruit looks, tastes and smells really great. Had my knickers in a knot over the predicted long start lag pitching AMH yeast. Do you think I could find any info on line about typical lag periods? Use of words like slow or long but no ranges at specified temp, brix ... I was researching strategies for stalled fermentation when late on day 3, finally up came the cap. The grapes came with 8 grams or so of Ferm O per bucket to be thrown 1/2 at 24 hours and 1/2 at 1/3 depletion but from your discussion and my fears of Sulphur ... might just throw in some K and DAP as well at 1/2 depletion, maybe undershoot a little - can't the DAP in fact promote sulphur problems in some situations? There is so much advice out there about avoiding DAP if at all possible. Rookie fears here.
> 
> I am hoping one of the reasons I had an unrecoverable sulphur problem previously with RC-212 and pinot noir (yes, Reduless, copper wire, Noblesse did not cure it) was too hot a fermentation and not getting the gross lees out soon enough. Followed the standard early feeding with modest Ferm K but to no avail. Once bitten, twice shy.


RC-212 can be a bit sulfuric if you aren't careful. My last batch fermented dry then hit spontaneous MLF even with sulfites and I know this because of the aroma that came from it it was very noticeable. 

Even with nutrients you can still get some Hydrogen Sulfide which is that nasty egg smell. Some weird of bad smells can just be normal fermentation.


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## Johnd (Nov 5, 2018)

CK55 said:


> My last batch fermented dry then hit spontaneous MLF even with sulfites and I know this because of the aroma that came from it it was very noticeable.



Are you saying that you can detect MLF progress by the aroma that it produces???????


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## CK55 (Nov 5, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Are you saying that you can detect MLF progress by the aroma that it produces???????


Everytime I do MLF, it makes a distinct candy like butterscotch aroma. So, no I measure progress the traditional way but i can tell it's started even if I can't see bubbles via the smell.

All I'm stating is that while I check progress using the methods everyone does. I can pick up when it's started via smell. I have a good nose and great sense of taste. That's just me in winemaking I can tell via taste and smell when something's not going right. Very easily.


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## Ajmassa (Nov 6, 2018)

CK55 said:


> Everytime I do MLF, it makes a distinct candy like butterscotch aroma. So, no I measure progress the traditional way but i can tell it's started even if I can't see bubbles via the smell.
> 
> All I'm stating is that while I check progress using the methods everyone does. I can pick up when it's started via smell. I have a good nose and great sense of taste. That's just me in winemaking I can tell via taste and smell when something's not going right. Very easily.



Dude.


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## Johnd (Nov 6, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Dude.



Right.


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## Ajmassa (Nov 6, 2018)

[quietly waiting for that next Pinot update]. @jburtner?


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## jburtner (Nov 6, 2018)

I can smell when AF starts every time 

Everythings looking good this morning. Must temp holding its own without heating pad assistance @ about 78*F. SG down from 1.110 to 1.080. Added third round of nutrients a little early because it’s fermenting steadily and i don’t want it to overshoot. One fourth and final nutrient addition scheduled for “before 50% or 1.050”. Not a hint of H2S and the reduless arrive today for insurance.

The cap firms up on this one in 10-15m after punchdown. 

On this batch I am only using free run to bulk age and bottle so hopefully will yield a carboy and some top-up. The potential ABV is around 15 to 15.5%.

Cheers!
-johann


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## Johnd (Nov 6, 2018)

jburtner said:


> On this batch I am only using free run to bulk age and bottle so hopefully will yield a carboy and some top-up.
> -johann



What are you going to do with the press wine?? Or are you not going to press? Just thinking out loud, but 15% - 15.5% is pretty high ABV for a Pinot Noir, consider hanging on to your press run wine in case later you feel like adding it back to the wine to help balance with some bigger taste components.


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## jburtner (Nov 6, 2018)

I'm not sure yet whether I'll press. It depends on how much free run I get but pressing a little to keep on the side to balance the ABV sounds like a great idea too. I have a bucket with a gajillion 1/8" holes in the bottom and plenty 5g paint bags for free-run / lauter-tun and will load up the small basket press, and of course the drilled PVC tube down into the brute for the initial free run.

The press wine remaining in the pomace is important and it's for a different project which must go nameless here but I'm sure y'all would approve 

The smell of the AF has quickly dominated the house and it's really quite enjoyable 

Cheers!
-johann


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## jburtner (Nov 7, 2018)

SG dropped to 1.060 late tonight from 1.080 early this morning. I’ll add last of nutrient protocol in the morning. Smells good tastes good is good. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## jburtner (Nov 7, 2018)

SG is down to just above 1.050 this morning. 1/2 depletion in under two days. First time I’ve used a nutrient protocol significantly different than package directions and as a specific reaction to critically low YAN levels and to prevent H2S issues. 

We’re only 1/2 way to dry and still need to rack off gross lee’s so not there yet. 

Thanks for all the help and comments! Much appreciated 

Cheers,
-johann


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## Johnd (Nov 7, 2018)

jburtner said:


> First time I’ve used a nutrient protocol significantly different than package directions and as a specific reaction to critically low YAN levels and to prevent H2S issues.



Normally, we as home winemakers, don't have access to YAN numbers, only time I've ever known mine was when purchasing Brehm buckets, same as you. Just imagine the difficulties you might be having if you didn't know that you were dealing with a low YAN must and just using "standard" nutrient protocol. Suppose the old sniffers would help ferret out the culprit, but man is it nice knowing what you're dealing with up front..........Really glad to see your ferment going well.


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## jburtner (Nov 10, 2018)

I racked the free run into one carboy using the PVC pipe w/million-holes-and-paint-bag then loaded up the press for some more free run and light pressing. Moved the carboys into a section of the cellar which is much cooler this time of year to compact the gross lee’s quickly for next racking in a day or two. 

Cheers!
-johann


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## stickman (Nov 10, 2018)

Your free run looks fairly dark, nice; it's funny that the skins look like they have more color to give, but Pinot just doesn't like giving it up.


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## jburtner (Nov 10, 2018)

I don't think it's that dark but it certainly has less particulate than the press - even just lightly pressed...

Cheers!
-jb


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## jburtner (Nov 17, 2018)

The Pinot Noir is looking good. I had moved it into the cold room (abt 50*F) and the lee’s compacted very nicely over a couple days. Even got a couple diamonds out of the deal. Total yield was 8 gallons and I wrapped with a heating pad to temp them up a little to get the MLF going again and to finish AF.


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