# Braggot



## WildSeedGrrrl (Apr 14, 2009)

This is the first braggot and I was looking for and found the simplest recipe. I changed it around but just a little and it seems to be going nicely. I have a general question about the odor and that was whether or not folks found that the smell is stronger than the actual flavor imparted by ingredients like hops. The must has a serious hoppy smell and I am considering racking today or tomorrow and let it finish out the primary fermenting in gallon jugs just to get it off the hops. 

recipe:
3lbs wheat Malt
3lbs clover honey
1oz cascade hops
London Ale yeast (the recipe said any ale yeast)
acid blend
yeast nutrient

OG was 1.100

Reading taken today was about 1.050

This is the first attempt and whether it goes horribly wrong or really fantastic. I'm keeping the result, just in case...And my fingers crossed.


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## Malkore (Apr 14, 2009)

I've only done one braggot myself...I'd have to lookup the recipe, but it was pretty simple, single hop variety, though I added a little roasted barley for color to my mash (I went AG not extract, because I'm a beer brewer with all the equipment and I"m particular like that).

I've had it aging close to a year now, and its pretty mellow. Kind of a lot of mouthfeel and sweetness left...it could have been more heavily hopped for better balance. Great head retention though.

It was an interesting experiment.


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## smurfe (Apr 14, 2009)

I guess it took off fermenting OK? I was going to say, with an SG as high as that I would suggest a starter be made for that yeast or be sure to rehydrate if using dry. Did you use a liquid or dry? 

I don't see what the hop will do other than some very mild aroma. If they are not boiled they will not release any IBU's (International Bittering Units). Beer is actually pretty sweet. The hops bitter the beer to make it less cloying. Too bad as Cascades would of gave a nice flavor to that mead/beer. It is my favorite hop. It gives a nice, citrus, grapefruit type flavor. Drink a Sierra Nevada IPA, thats Cascades you taste. My first recipe I am going to brew on my new system will use close to a pound of them in a 10 gallon batch. 

Let us know how this turns out. It sounds pretty yummy. It also sounds like a wicked hang over from over consumption.


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Apr 14, 2009)

It did take off fermenting well and I used OJ or the starteer. I used the Wyeast liquid. See i was wondering if I should boil it with the honey and malt but I didn't and many of the recipes I think assume that someone should know to boil the hops but I don't because so far in all the wine I've made I just put in all the ingredients. No cooking required. I'll be sure to boil them with the honey next time. 

I like the cascades, it was why I chose it, thinking it should be fine. Hey I think 13% alcohol shouldn't be too bad a hangover. I mean I was thinking of bottling these in 750ml bottles and non-carbonated , so it's not meant to be drunk alone. I suppose if I used priming sugar I could bottle them in beer bottles.

I'll keep you posted and I'll boil the hops next time.
WSG


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Apr 17, 2009)

*Worst racking experience ever.*

Ugh. I just had the worst racking experience to date. I have an auto-siphon but I thought the amount was too small to warrant using it so I had the bright idea to just do it the old-fashioned way, where you fill the tube with water and all that. Well 20 frustrated minutes later and braggot on the walls, i gave up and used the auto-siphon. I managed to get it into 2 jugs. There was not a lot of distrubed lees floating, just a weird pinkish sludge on the bottom. 

It's now in the jugs in a cabinet in my kitchen along side the mead. It tastes terrible, like feet juice, but I remain hopeful that in 2 months I can rack again, and in 6 months it'll only taste like toes and not the whole foot.


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## Malkore (Apr 17, 2009)

you racked it already? was it done? I never rack my mead to secondary until its hit terminal gravity.

not a hardfast rule, but if you rack early, you can stall fermentation or get it completely stuck (ask me how I know).


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Apr 17, 2009)

It dropped really fast and it hasn't stopped fermenting after racking. So I'm not worried just yet. It might be that the ale yeast i used really sped things up. I'll keep this updated. Of course, if it stalls you're the first person I'm asking about fixing that.


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Apr 28, 2009)

*Picture of the braggot*

I posted a picture of the braggot in my album. It looks like a chocolate stout. Yummy! I figure I might just try bulk aging this one for a few months and see where I stand. 

I was hoping someone could answer a question for me. If I use priming sugar at bottling can I still bottle the braggot in wine bottles and use a cork? The alternative would be to bottle in beer bottles and cap them instead. 

I was wanting to do a still braggot but I think that from the looks of it I might have a better chance of getting folks to drink it if it's got some bubble to it.

WSG


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## Joshua1980 (Apr 30, 2009)

Wow! That is definitely a nice chocolaty color! I think making it bubbly would definitely add a nice touch. I unintentionally made a sparkling cider last fall by bottling too soon... (second time I've mentioned that today...) It was fine in my regular wine bottles, but it was so popular among my friends and I that I didn't get the chance to see if it would've been good for the long-term. I'd say err on the side of caution and use the caps if you decide to go bubbly


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## Tom (Apr 30, 2009)

Joshua,
Have you ever nade a Chocolate Oatmeal Stout? Now thats a great tasting beer and deep rich color. Oh and the smell..... Hmmmmm.. heaven. Your know the saying Beer Breakfast of Champions.


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## Joshua1980 (May 5, 2009)

Tom said:


> Joshua,
> Have you ever nade a Chocolate Oatmeal Stout? Now thats a great tasting beer and deep rich color. Oh and the smell..... Hmmmmm.. heaven. Your know the saying Beer Breakfast of Champions.



No, I haven't. But that is one of my favorites when I go out! Funny, I came to this forum for wine... now I'm think my next batch is probably going to be beer!


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## Malkore (May 5, 2009)

Beer is fun to make, but the process is a bit different than wine (I found wine was very simple to make, at least from a kit).
Its always good to be well versed in the entire hobby: beer making, wine making, and mead making.


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## Tom (May 5, 2009)

Well I am VERy well versed (obsessed) to 2 of the 3.
Just don't like mead..


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## WildSeedGrrrl (May 9, 2009)

First off I'm just going to open with "WHOA!"

Yesterday I took a sample taste of the deep chocolately-looking goodness and was completely floored. Initial taste was extremely hoppy, then it settled into a carmel sweetness, and ended with a nice bitter bte at the very end. This will definitely have to be carbonated and bottled in beer bottles to be served chilled. If it had this taste now, so early on, I can't wait to taste it again in 4 months.

I've prety much settled on not bulk aging this one. now my concern is since I have never carbonated before I have some questions for the folks who have done this for mead.

I don't think i stabilize with potassium metabisulphates, instead I make sure that I have consistent stable readings to make sure that no further obvious fermentation is taking place. I mix up priming sugar and warm water and rack the braggot into a bucket with the priming sugar to get it off the lees. Then bottle and cap from there, so that the sugar starts the fermentation going again and let it bottle age in my basement until I'm ready to taste one. I wasn't planning on adding any campden because I don't want to kill the yeast off, right? But what are the chances that I'll end up with sediment on the bottom if i don't?

I was reading the Gotmead forum pages and I got a little panicked and confused as too procedures that will work.

The SG is slowly dropping. I'm at an SG of 1.010 and it's been about a month since the last reading.


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## Malkore (May 11, 2009)

Yes, you're correct.
No potassium sorbate.
No K-meta.

Bottle carbonation always creates a small amount of sediment. Just pour gently and sacrifice the last dregs to Dionysus to get a clean pour.
The only other option is to keg it after its fully fermented, force carbonate, then bottle from the key with a beergun or make-shift beergun. If you did that you could sorbate/sulfite it if you wanted to, and there'd be no sediment in the bottles.

I've never sorbated or sulfited a mead, and I've had some of them bottled for 10 years and they have not gone bad. A few bottles did have a hint of carbonation that weren't intended to be carb'd but I chaulk that up to both not degassing it, and possibly bottling with a couple points left...due to impatience.


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## WildSeedGrrrl (May 12, 2009)

thanks for the confirmation. I can see that I'm taking it all in,when I can write out my questions and work through what I think is happening and what should happen. 

Well the yeast for the braggot is completely pooped. I was hoping to get it higher than the alcohol tolerance, which I did. I got it to 11% and it was said to make it to 10%. so bottle carbonating may not be an option especially if I don't want to use another yeast (to avoid weird taste and smell). If I did, I guess I'd try for the EC-1118. seems like that is the standard, go to yeast.

I might just wait this one out and settle for a still braggot.

WSG


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## Malkore (May 12, 2009)

well, the issue is EC-1118 will go to 18% so if you have residual sugar left, it will ferment, possibly exceeding the pressure of your bottles.

bottle bombs suck. lost 5 gallons of stout once due to bottling a stuck fermentation (many many years ago)


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## WildSeedGrrrl (May 19, 2009)

Yesterday i racked the braggot off of about an inch of lees and and added a mix of honey and water to top off (it was a little more beery tasting than I liked) that seemed to have got the ball rolling because it's back up and fermenting...slowly. It still hadn't reached dry, but I don't expect it too at this point. So I don't risk bottle bombs I'm not going to bottle this just yet.


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## WildSeedGrrrl (May 22, 2009)

*Does this sound like it would work?*

So I had been reading on other forums about the difficulty in carbonating braggots, especially when not using wine yeasts with high alcohol tolerance. I'm concerned about adding a wine yeast before bottling in order to carbonate. I was wondering if this idea sounds reasonable:

I would use a higher tolerance ale yeast but add only add enough honey and malt to initially ferment to dry, then before bottling add a bit more (honey/priming sugar) to stimulate fermentation then bottle and age.

For example:

12% Alcohol tolerant Ale yeast 
Malt and Honey to about 10 or 11%
Then before bottling add the remaining, wait to see if fermenting then bottle, cap, and age.

Does this sound like it could work?

WSG


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## Wade E (May 22, 2009)

Tom, have you ever tried a melomel? I bet money that you would like my Raspberry and my Blueberry Melomel as I have many HONEST freinds who make wine and they are not afraid to tell me when they dont like a wine (which is what I really like,honesty) and they are not too big on fruit wines but they all love my 2 melomels. They make wine only from grapes and i tricked them once with a RJS Super Tuscan winery series which had 1 1/2 years on it and told them that it was the only wine I made from grapes and they were begging me to tell them where I got the grapes and which tannins I used and then I told them what it was and they now make some grape pack kits in the off season!


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## Malkore (May 25, 2009)

That might work.

I don't suppose you have a kegging system? It would be too easy to just force carbonate this in a keg and then bottle.
One of those times where being a beer maker and kegger comes in handy.


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## WildSeedGrrrl (May 25, 2009)

No I don't do beer often or have the space to devote to it, so force carbonating just won't be happening. I guess I'll settle for a still braggot this time around and see what happens with a new and different batch.

I have friends who will drink anything, so I'm not worried about being able to give this stuff away.


WSG


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## St Allie (May 25, 2009)

What about those carbonation drops things you can buy at the homebrew shop? The ones for beer? I'm assuming, ( having never used them) that they leave minimal sediment? You'd have to bottle in champagne bottles though..

just a thought 

Allie


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## Malkore (May 26, 2009)

St Allie said:


> What about those carbonation drops things you can buy at the homebrew shop? The ones for beer? I'm assuming, ( having never used them) that they leave minimal sediment? You'd have to bottle in champagne bottles though..
> 
> just a thought
> 
> Allie



carb tabs are just dextrose and usually corn starch as the binding agent.
They'll leave the same amount of sediment as priming the bottling vessel with dextrose.


Don't suppose you know anybody that'd allow you to force carb and bottle at their place using their kegging system?

my lone braggot attempt was a lower ABV, barely 10%, so my yeast was capable of bottle carbonating the normal way (and I'm used to sediment in beer so sediment in braggot didn't bother me)


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jun 10, 2009)

*Update: Damn thing won't ferment to dry *

So I checked on the braggot today thinking if the SG had dropped significantly then I would go ahead and prime, bottle, then cap a gallon. I know it's still fermenting because there's tiny bubbles coming up and the brix is at 14. I didn't add any yeast energizer because it's still fermenting, albiet slowly. TThe sample I tasted is good though, sweet and beery, and so I know that it will taste amazing after it's been chilled.

WSG


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jun 18, 2009)

*And the bonehead Award of the year...*

Goes to me!!!!

Sure it was spur of the moment but I was already stabilizing my passion wine so why not go ahead and bottle that braggot. I have plenty of bottles and a capper and I have the time. Sure I was short a pair of hands but slow and steady and well organized workspace makes all the difference. 

I dug out the caps, the rnissed and sanitized the bottles, pails, and equipment. I opened up the priming sugar. Before that I even went online to double check the amounts I would need for 2 gallons of braggot. I put the priming sugar in the bucket, racked the 2 gallons into the bucket and commenced to bottle.

I got 18 bottles and a plastic bottle (to follow the carbonation process by squeezing said bottle) filled. I put them in plastic tubs and in my foyer (the temp is more constant there) and then settled down to log this into my Wine log. Then midway through it hit me...I just put the priming sugar in the bucket. I didn't dissolve it in boiling water first. 

{{APPLAUSE}} 

Thank You! Thank You! I'd first like to thank the academy for acknowledging my skill at forgetfulness and sheer stupidity. Then I'd like to thank the shredded wheat cereal I had for breakfast because obviously that change in my little routine (of not eating until lunch) which filled my stomach and got my brain working. Without all the little things I would not have made such a spectacular mistake. 

Damn. Well I'm hoping for the best (there was still enough fermentable honey) that I may get something but it won't be what I wanted.

WSG


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## manku007 (Jun 19, 2009)

WildSeedGrrrl said:


> I have friends who will drink anything, so I'm not worried about being able to give this stuff away.
> WSG



WildSeedGrrrl people test things on rats or monkey, but hats of to u , u directly test things on human, just kidding don't get angry .....


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jun 19, 2009)

Funny. I plan on bringing these out towards the end of the party when everyone is well into their drunkenness.

WSG


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jun 22, 2009)

*NEW RECIPE: Pale Bunny Braggot*

3lbs Pale Malt
5lbs Clover Honey
1lb Caramunich Malt
2oz Fuggles or Cascade Hops
London Ale Yeast
Yeast Nutrient
Yeast Energizer

I'm going for some thing a little heavier in flavor but lighter in alcohol so this one should be about a 3 gallon batch. I happen to like the bitterness that hops adds to my beer so this time I'm going to not dry hop this batch (which is what I ended up doing with the first one) but add the hops to the end of the boil before I add the honey. 

I know how these malts taste in the beers i drink but not how they work together or with honey. This one I'm taking better notes than the first attempt. 

On a high note: The first braggot is actually carbonating. I can tell because the test plastic bottle is really hard to squeeze. I found that little piece of knowledge I think from someone here on the forum as a way to see if carbonation is taking place. In another couple of weeks I'm going to throw a few in the fridge, chill and hand the first taste to a willing victim....uhm friend.


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## Malkore (Jun 23, 2009)

Are you only adding hops at the end of the boil? 

I'm a beer maker too so if you have any questions on when to add hops to achieve bitterness, hop flavor, or hop aroma, let me know. They all require different times in the boil. And bitterness is not the same as hop flavor


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanx Malkore, 

I'm still doing more reading and 'tasting' and asking about. The weather is too hot to do anything but damage control on my wines. Strangely, I like the sweet and the bitter so figuring out when to add for light bittering and what hops add more flavor. I'm using clover as the base honey since it's easy to get in large quantities.

I just picked up a beer making for dummies book and I"m hoping to start something easy for my first time out. The weather here in Minneapolis, MN is awful. HOT and HUMID! Too hot to be boiling water for hours, which makes sense why hardly anyone I know makes beer in the summer here.


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jul 8, 2009)

**New* BarleyWine Braggot*

So this is a recipe I was putting together for another go at a braggot. Following a recipe for a BarleyWine beer, including hops and Ale yeast, only using more honey. This is for a 5 gallon batch. Shooting for a ABV between 6-8%

5# Honey (I'm pretty sure it's Cover)
1.5# Wheat Malt
3# Pale Malt
2oz Perle (60 min)
2oz Willamette (15 min)
Irish Moss
WyeastBelgium Abby 

Any suggestions?

WSG


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## Malkore (Jul 8, 2009)

My only thoughts is that this looks more like a strong honey beer, than a braggot.

but that really depends on your definition of braggot...where you draw the line on the amount of fermentables coming from honey vs. malt

are you looking for a LOT of hop flavor? if not, I'd cut the 15 minute hop addition back.
What's the projected FG and IBU's? You'll wanna make sure its reasonably balanced, and not too bitter or too sweet/malty for your tastes.

Also, you'll need the alpha acid levels of the hops. 2oz of Pearle hops doesn't mean anything unless you know the ALA %

Saaz or Spalt hops might make good 15 minute additions too, if you're on the fence about Willamete or can't find em. Both are European hops which would fit well since you're using a Belgian yeast.


None of this is gospel by any means. Just my 2 cents


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jul 8, 2009)

My understanding of the BJCP definitions is that the over 50% has to be honey, a stated beer style and/or honey type. Most of the recipes I've seen use wine or mead yeasts, not beer yeasts which might explain why when a beer yeast is used it gets classified as a 'honey' beer. I'm trying to get my hands on the commercial braggots on the market to taste and find any books I can about it. 

I'm pretty much just winging it and learning as I go. 
Alpha Acids Hops range: 4-5% for aroma and 6-7% for flavoring. I'm trying to remember my notes. I know that depending on this years crop of hops, the acid levels. Luckily, the guys from Midwest have said that they have been pretty consistent with getting quality hops that are well within the general range, for whatever thats worths. They have Saaz, Willamette, and Perle. 

I tend to like alot of hop flavor but as time and my knowledge grows that might change. I'm working from bits and pieces of writings and the fact that folks do a combination of beer/wine or majority one or the other. 

Right now I'm trying to practice and learn with recipes I find and gathering knowledge as I go. I'm an academic by training in social sciences unfortunately not physical sciences so though I like to think I have a scientific method it is not as refined as say a chemist. 

Call it an obsession. LOL. Thanks Malkore for the suggestions. keep adding your .02 because eventually that'll add up to a lot. I appreciate your input and I'll send you a revised one after I make a run to the brew supply place.


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## Malkore (Jul 9, 2009)

Ok, you don't have an 'aroma' hops addition though...

You have bittering hops at 60 minutes, where much of the flavor adn ALL the aroma is lost.

15 minute hop addition won't give you much bitterness, will add some flavor, and a small amount of aroma.

I ran a rough IBU calculation for you:
Batch Volume (Gal) 5 Wort Gravity (O.G) 1.060 

Weight (oz.) Alpha Acid (%) Boil Time (min) IBU
Addition 1 2 6 60 51.4
Addition 2 2 4 15 17.1
Total IBU: 68.5 

It'll be bitter...like Pale Ale bitter. Of course I had to guess which hop was which alpha acid level, and guessed an OG around 1.060 based on the estimated ABV you're after (I probably low-balled the gravity)

here's the calculator I used: http://www.rooftopbrew.net/ibu.php


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## WildSeedGrrrl (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks. Ok so that was way more than .02 I'm thinking your words are right up there in the .10 to .15 range. See everything is adding up nicely. I'm just going to pick your brains for awhile.  I've never used that calculator. I'm thinking that I don't want it too bitter. What I like about this hobby is that trial and error makes for interesting brews. So I have some playing around to do with this new tool. 

WSG


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## Malkore (Jul 10, 2009)

yeah...I got a little wordy  helps to be a beer brewer when dealing with hops.

I'll mention that the residual sweetness (i.e. final gravity) will have a LOT to do with how bitter those IBU levels will be perceived. A really dry beer (or mead) will be more bitter at 20 IBU's than one that's still got some residual sugar (say a FG of 1.010).


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