# New Barrel Dilema!



## ibglowin (Jan 23, 2012)

Here is one I hadn't really thought much about until now as it wasn't a problem. Am wondering what the consensus is with the mixing of kit wines and fresh grape wines that have been through MLF through the same barrel. I have 7 full carboys that are either just about done undergoing MLF in the carboy or completely done. I have racked two of the wines that were finished into the 2 Vadai's I have currently. I ordered a 3rd barrel that should arrive either this week or next and I have a LE Meritage kit that I will break in the new barrel with then switch to rotating the other fresh grape carboys into all 3 Vadai's over the course of the next 9 months or so till crush comes along in the Fall of 2012.

What are the possibilities of putting a kit wine in a barrel that had a previous wine that had undergone MLF? Is their anyway to protect the kit wine 100% against MLF from stray MLB in the oak?

You can't add any sorbate obviously. Sulfite levels start dropping pretty rapidly in a barrel. I have tested mine coming out at 3 months and they have dropped to ~10ppm which is not enough to prevent MLF. Not sure lysozyme is 100% foolproof either. 

Trying to think of a way to "sterilize" a 23L wine barrel just short of putting it into an "autoclave" of sorts!

Or just never put a kit wine into a barrel that has had MLF wine in it ever which kinda stinks.....


Thoughts?


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## AlFulchino (Jan 23, 2012)

Mike you can run into an acidity/ph change of the kit wine if a kit goes into a barrel that has mlf buggers in it

kit wines as you know have been previously adjusted....having said that it would be possible for you to be putting your own twist on things....the benefits of the Vadai may in your mind outweigh the consequences....and of course you are capable of tweaking ph and acidity...its all about style ( yous) and of course it is about risk ( also yours) ...w the kits you have a safety net and left out of the barrel you know where you stand


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## grapeman (Jan 23, 2012)

I would finish it out of the barrel. Once you get mlb in the barrel it is probably there for quite a while. Sometimes a burned sulfur stick is used, but I don't think you can ever guarantee mlb will not take over.


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## ibglowin (Jan 23, 2012)

In a perfect world it would be best to have a barrel just for kits I suppose!


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## Runningwolf (Jan 23, 2012)

Milke how are you testing to ensure you are done with the mlf.


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## Wade E (Jan 23, 2012)

How abaout Lysozyme?


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## robie (Jan 23, 2012)

Wade E said:


> How abaout Lysozyme?



If I remember right, Lysozyme is pretty much 100% effective if the PPM is high enough. I just don't know what it might do to the taste.

I guess you could watch the free SO2 really close and keep adjusting it in the barrel more often, but what a chancy thing to have to do.

I think Lysozyme is the better choice.

I am glad you brought this up, Mike. I never even considered this.


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## ibglowin (Jan 23, 2012)

Chromatography.



Runningwolf said:


> Milke how are you testing to ensure you are done with the mlf.


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## ibglowin (Jan 23, 2012)

Wade E said:


> How abaout Lysozyme?



Its not fool proof. Look at these directions from the manufacturer. Notice the glaring missing statement concerning blocking MLF in red wine.....

*Lysozyme - 50g
AD352

Wine Making 
Use Lysozyme for controlling lactic acid bacteria growth in your wine. Isolated from egg whites, this enzyme will degrade the cell wall of gram positive bacteria, but will not affect yeast or gram negative bacteria such as Acetobacter. Lysozyme can be used for both Red and White Wine Malo Fermentation.

Dosage:

To Delay Malolactic Fermentation: Red Wine - add to grapes at 100 - 200 ppm, or 0.38 - 0.76 grams per gallon. White Wine - Add to must at 200 - 300 ppm, or 0.76 - 1.14 grams per gallon.

To Block Malolactic Fermentation: White Wine - Add to must or wine at 300 - 500 ppm, or 1.14 - 1.90 grams per gallon.

Stabilizing wine after MLF is complete: Add to barrel during storage at 250 - 500 ppm, or 0.95 - 1.90 grams per gallon.

When blending partial and complete MLF wines: Add immeditatley after blending at 300 - 500 ppm, or 1.14 - 1.90 grams per gallon, to reduce the risk of further malolactic fermentation (MLF). Within several days any lactic should expire.

For sluggish or stuck yeast fermentation: Red Wine - Add at 150 - 400 ppm, or 0.57 - 1.52 grams per gallon. White Wine - add at 300 - 500 ppm, or 1.14 - 1.90 grams per gallon.

Directions for use: You can make a 10% solution of Lysozyme in water (100 grams per liter of water). However we find the easiest method is to add the desired dry weight of lysozyme in 5x its weight of warm(tepid) water. Mix for one minute, allow this mixture to stand for 45 minutes and add to must, juice or wine while mixing well. Allow 24 - 48 hours for reaction to complete. 
*


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## AlFulchino (Jan 23, 2012)

bench trial some day when you have an extra barrel..which i am SURE you some day will


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## Runningwolf (Jan 23, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Chromatography.



I just started doing these last week. I can't believe how easy it is to do. After doing the accuvin last year which was a nightmare.Plus the Chromatography is tons cheaper. I can run ten tests on one sheet at 2mm apart from each other.


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## saddlebronze (Jan 23, 2012)

knowing the porosity of wood, once you have introduced MLB, its gonna stay.


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## ibglowin (Jan 23, 2012)

Whatchoo talkin' about Willis?

The instructions say no closer than 1" apart! I get 7 samples and 2 standards (malice and lactic, no tartaric needed) (one inch spacing) on an 8.5 x 11" sheet.



Runningwolf said:


> I just started doing these last week. I can't believe how easy it is to do. After doing the accuvin last year which was a nightmare.Plus the Chromatography is tons cheaper. I can run ten tests on one sheet at 2mm apart from each other.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 23, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Whatchoo talkin' about Willis?
> 
> The instructions say no closer than 1" apart! I get 7 samples and 2 standards (malice and lactic, no tartaric needed) (one inch spacing) on an 8.5 x 11" sheet.



Instructions??????? LOL

I did close to 60 tests. The first sheet had the T-M-L samples on it. I didn't need it on every sheet (6 sheets). 2cm's is a little more than 3/4", which is plenty of space.


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## Wade E (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah but you wrote mm's on your first post and thats why Mike was all over you! Big difference! LOL


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## Runningwolf (Jan 23, 2012)

That was just to see if he was paying attention about this whole milf thing.


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## ibglowin (Jan 23, 2012)

I needed that last laugh!


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## AlFulchino (Jan 24, 2012)

i detect a new reality tv show for Mike in the offing....."To Mlf or Milf", subtitle, "there is only a millimeter of difference"


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## grapeman (Jan 24, 2012)

BWWaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Not sure I would want to watch that show!!!!!!!!!!!!
 Just had to try it out to see it in action! Thanks Wade. Julie will get a lot of use out of this one!


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