# What is this fruit?



## Jericurl (Aug 20, 2016)

And more importantly...can I make wine from it?

I was foraging for mesquite beans today and came across a stand of these. There were probably roughly a dozen of these in 3 major stands. The tallest of the trees was probably around 25 feet or so.

So far it looks like a perfectly round green persimmon. But I'm not sure.


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## Stressbaby (Aug 20, 2016)

It's a persimmon. Not sure if it is Texas Persimmon (Diospyros texana) or American Persimmon (D. virginiana). To me, the leaves look more like D. virginiana. You can make wine from them. So far, I can't.


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## Julie (Aug 20, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> It's a persimmon. Not sure if it is Texas Persimmon (Diospyros texana) or American Persimmon (D. virginiana). To me, the leaves look more like D. virginiana. You can make wine from them. So far, I can't.



Lol, you are overworking it. Make a 3 gallon batch use nothing but persimmons, peptic enzyme, nutrient and tannins and try Lavlin 1122. Ferment to 1.010 in a primary bucket, snap the lid down and let it ferment to dry. Rack to a carboy, add K-meta and let it sit for three months. Now rack and stabilize and backsweeten to the sweetness you like.

Don't put any other chemicals into it, I would let it sit for a year, racking every three months and adding k-meta.


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## BernardSmith (Aug 20, 2016)

If it's persimmon then be careful because unripe persimmons seem to have some kind of enzyme that is really unpleasant when it comes into contact with your lips and tongue. I am sure it can act as a meat tenderizer because it would seem to break down muscle protein


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## Jericurl (Aug 20, 2016)

I think we are leaning towards the Virginian Persimmon. Even the smallest trees in this stand were much larger than 8 ft, which was what most sources were sizing the Texas Persimmons at. (Ugh, I hate that sentence structure. I will fix it tomorrow when I'm not so tired)

We couldn't decide so I had Manthing cut it in half, then I stuck the tip of my tongue on it. Instant alum!! Yep, that's a persimmon.


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## hounddawg (Aug 20, 2016)

that's an understatement, but very accurate one indeed. dog gone green simmons are the king of pucker, so bad your teeth go chalky, unfortunately I'm not as refined as yall and I love getting a tender foot take a bite, one taste I was 6 or 7 but I remember as if it was yesterday, sorry just a hillbilly flashback, i'm so ashamed of myself, UH RIGHT
Dawg 





BernardSmith said:


> If it's persimmon then be careful because unripe persimmons seem to have some kind of enzyme that is really unpleasant when it comes into contact with your lips and tongue. I am sure it can act as a meat tenderizer because it would seem to break down muscle protein


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## hounddawg (Aug 20, 2016)

them same as here in Arkansas wont be ripe till orange an soft, but you might take a bite just to be sure,, lol
Dawg


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## Stressbaby (Aug 21, 2016)

I don't pick from the tree, I don't have a ladder high enough, all my persimmons are 20+ feet up. I just wait until they fall in the grass and pick them up off the ground. 

Thanks @Julie for the suggestions. Are you suggesting straight fruit/no water? Not sure that is possible!


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## dralarms (Aug 21, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> I don't pick from the tree, I don't have a ladder high enough, all my persimmons are 20+ feet up. I just wait until they fall in the grass and pick them up off the ground.
> 
> Thanks @Julie for the suggestions. Are you suggesting straight fruit/no water? Not sure that is possible!



Freeze them, then cut in half as they thaw and use plenty of pectic enzyme. (The powder not the liquid). The pectic enzyme will break down the fruit very nicely.


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## Stressbaby (Aug 21, 2016)

Maybe you all have different persimmons. By the time they thaw, there is no cutting them in half. They are mush, the consistency of baby food. As far as pectic goes, I generally triple the pectic. After doing that, they are the consistency of thin baby food.

I don't mean to dismiss any advice, I do appreciate it. I just don't see how you can make this wine without some water.


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## BernardSmith (Aug 21, 2016)

Water is in the fruit. That's what makes the juice. You may not be able to express or press out a great deal of juice per unit of fruit but treat the juice that you express as if it were the juice of grapes. No one adds water to grapes do they, when they press grapes for wine? Adding water simply dilutes the flavor. If you can only express , say 1/2 gallon of juice then the problem may be that yoy don't have enough fruit - not that the fruit juice you do have wants to be diluted with water. Wine ain't beer.


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## Stressbaby (Aug 21, 2016)

Serious question, who has made persimmon wine from American Persimmons? 

I've made no less than a dozen batches, as I have a huge tree in my yard that produces 100-200 pounds per year. You can freeze/thaw the fruit, treat with 3t pectic enzyme (powder) per gallon, let it sit overnight, and you can still barely pour the stuff the next day. S.G readings are not possible. Even WITH water, you can barely get an S.G. reading. And it drops a crazy amount of sediment.

Here is the thread I started optimistically in 2012.

Persimmons make great cookies and bread though.


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## Julie (Aug 21, 2016)

Stressbaby, instead of water use the white grape concentrate, I believe you did say you use it. And to be honest I have never made a persimmon wine and I don't mean to judge you, you have been making wines for a long time. When trying to take a hydrometer reading, have you ever put a strainer into the must and pull out the liquid that it pushes or is that not possible?


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## Jericurl (Aug 21, 2016)

So do you guys think freezing then steam juicing the persimmons would be possible?
If it turns sludgey, I'm thinking I could probably use one of the paint strainer bags inside the basket on top of the colander part to keep in most of the pulp.


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## hounddawg (Aug 21, 2016)

um I have, on property probably 200 to 300 trees of persimmon trees form 4 or 5 feet to a couple monsters, the wine it makes I found lacking to me, but the deer burger they bring an deer chili meat is priceless. 
Dawg 




Stressbaby said:


> Serious question, who has made persimmon wine from American Persimmons?
> 
> I've made no less than a dozen batches, as I have a huge tree in my yard that produces 100-200 pounds per year. You can freeze/thaw the fruit, treat with 3t pectic enzyme (powder) per gallon, let it sit overnight, and you can still barely pour the stuff the next day. S.G readings are not possible. Even WITH water, you can barely get an S.G. reading. And it drops a crazy amount of sediment.
> 
> ...


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## hounddawg (Aug 21, 2016)

ut-oh, where'd ya learn to say aint, I thought you was a learned man. tisk, tisk,,, guess I did land amongst the nuts, oh thank god, home at last,,,
Dawg::::






BernardSmith said:


> Water is in the fruit. That's what makes the juice. You may not be able to express or press out a great deal of juice per unit of fruit but treat the juice that you express as if it were the juice of grapes. No one adds water to grapes do they, when they press grapes for wine? Adding water simply dilutes the flavor. If you can only express , say 1/2 gallon of juice then the problem may be that yoy don't have enough fruit - not that the fruit juice you do have wants to be diluted with water. Wine ain't beer.


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## Stressbaby (Aug 21, 2016)

Jericurl said:


> So do you guys think freezing then steam juicing the persimmons would be possible?
> If it turns sludgey, I'm thinking I could probably use one of the paint strainer bags inside the basket on top of the colander part to keep in most of the pulp.



I've tried that too.


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## Stressbaby (Aug 21, 2016)

Julie said:


> Stressbaby, instead of water use the white grape concentrate, I believe you did say you use it. And to be honest I have never made a persimmon wine and I don't mean to judge you, you have been making wines for a long time. When trying to take a hydrometer reading, have you ever put a strainer into the must and pull out the liquid that it pushes or is that not possible?



Hi Julie,

Thanks again. I have tried both grape and apple concentrate and in fact the Summer WotM uses grape. 

A strainer doesn't really keep the pulp out...the pulp is so fine it goes right through the strainer. 

I honestly think the Summer WotM persimmon wine may be my best so far. I went easy on the persimmon, add some bananas, didn't leave it on the pulp/seeds too long (<=3d). I also think fermentation temp has some effect on this wine - fermentation temp needs to be kept low.

I'm interested to see what Jericurl does with hers.


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## Jericurl (Aug 21, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> I'm interested to see what Jericurl does with hers.



Yeah, me too, lol.

Luckily I have time to do more research before I need to decide.


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## hounddawg (Aug 22, 2016)

steaming usually sets the pectin making clearing next to imposable ,, i'm not real sure since they taught me to freeze I heat nothing and freeze all, in fermentation stages. as a mater of fact freezing has cut down on cutting up and handling, I use a bowl shaped screen with a handle to dip my pulp, put that into my screening bags to put in my fruit press for more juice, 
Dawg 







Jericurl said:


> Yeah, me too, lol.
> 
> Luckily I have time to do more research before I need to decide.


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## andy123 (Aug 22, 2016)

I started a batch of persimmon wine and soon had a bucket of pudding. They seem to be all pectin.


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## jvincentiii (Aug 22, 2016)

I agree with the post that says to freeze it-- actually what we do here (north Texas) is wait for the very first light freeze, then pick them. Be careful, because they'll be mushy. But after the freeze, the astringency is gone and they're even a nice treat right from the tree. I haven't tried to make wine from them, but I imagine you won't lose much juice since they're coming off the tree and not from the freezer.


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## Jericurl (Aug 22, 2016)

@hounddawg 



> steaming usually sets the pectin making clearing next to imposable



I use my steamjuicer for wine and mead all the time. I sprinkle in pectic enzyme right on top of the fruit and turn on the burner.
I'm not sure if the steam does something or if the pectic enzyme is even supposed to be subjected to those temperatures, but I've never had a batch not clear.
I even ran my prickly pears through the steam juicer and they are notorious for turning into goo. They gave me no problem.


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## Kleftiwallah (Aug 22, 2016)

Just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons... are you sure it's not a Medlar?

The fruit known over here as 'The dog's arse'!

https://www.victoriananursery.co.uk/Medlar_Tree_Nottingham/

Cheers, Tony.


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## Val M (Aug 22, 2016)

I have a Fuyu persimmon tree...looks like one in the picture. Mine ripen in November. I pick when they're a beautiful orange color, just before they start to turn soft. Eat like an apple.... delicious! They make the best persimmon jam.... I haven't tried wine yet.


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## Stressbaby (Aug 23, 2016)

andy123 said:


> I started a batch of persimmon wine and soon had a bucket of pudding. They seem to be all pectin.



Yup. Tasty pudding though.



Val M said:


> I have a Fuyu persimmon tree...looks like one in the picture. Mine ripen in November. I pick when they're a beautiful orange color, just before they start to turn soft. Eat like an apple.... delicious! They make the best persimmon jam.... I haven't tried wine yet.



Fuyu as you probably know is an Asian persimmon, which is a different beast.


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## Doc (Aug 24, 2016)

Here, in Nebraska, we don't consider them edible until they've hung on the tree until after the first freeze. By then they are mushy, but sweet enough to enjoy.


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## hounddawg (Aug 28, 2016)

I'VE NEVER HEATED PERSIMMONS, BUT I DID TRY PEARS ONCE ,, and they never cleared, so I never heated again on anything, but when I got turned on to freezing, I just never tried heating again, I got tons of persimmon trees every where, I just build myself a few blinds with brush, then I eat deer chili, deer burgers, deer cooked with brown beans, I use persimmons only for a natural deer bait, although many years ago I had simmon jelly that was not bad
Dawg

if you don't mind let me know if it is worth drinking




Jericurl said:


> @hounddawg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jesse Brown (Apr 8, 2019)

I know this is an old thread, but I'm trying to find out if a steam juicer can successfully pull juice from a persimmon. My uncle said he made persimmon wine once and it was great, but vowed to never do it again. Why? WAAAAYYYY to much trouble. As others have stated, if you wait until the fruit is ripe, the pulp is the consistency of baby food and is practically impossible to strain. However, I was wondering about the Fuyu variety - it produces a much harder pulp (more like an apple). Has anyone been successful at pulling the juice (or just making wine) from the Fuyu variety? Anyone use a steam juicer on these?


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## Jericurl (Apr 14, 2019)

@Jesse Brown , no not yet. We just bought a house last fall though and I'm planning a food forest in the backyard. At some point we will be planting some Asian persimmons, so I'll be following if you decide to go that route. I've finally given up on making mead/wine with American persimmons. It is a TON of work and I never made anything that I thought tasted worth the effort.


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## Dédé Philippe (Oct 7, 2020)

I just set a batch of persimmons to ferment. I agree with whoever said that theirs essentially "turned into pudding." I put double the amount of pectic enzyme, still had globs of "jam" form almost immediately.


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