# Why does my mead taste horrible?



## RocketBee (Apr 12, 2020)

So far I've made four one-gallon batches of mead and none of them have tasted any good. They all have been simple recipes -- honey, water, yeast and nutrients. The latest batch I bottled June 2018. I finally cracked open a bottle after chilling it in the fridge. It does tastes better than my first batch (which tasted like what I imagine carburetor parts cleaner would taste), but still not very drinkable. In this last one-gallon batch, I used Lalvin D47 yeast, did the staggered nutrient addition and it still tastes like crap nearly two years later. Even though I'm a beekeeper, my lovely bride has given up on good mead and feels that I'm wasting good honey by trying to make mead -- she doesn't think it's possible to make good mead. I've done a fair amount of research and really thought that the SNA was the solution, now I'm wondering whether I let my batch get too warm during active fermentation. No idea what to try next. Any ideas?


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## 1d10t (Apr 12, 2020)

The guy that reponsible for TONSA did a new version about a year ago because people could taste the nutrients in a one gallon version. It didn't scale down well. But that's just a wild stab since we have very little information here. How warm did it get during fermentation?


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## RocketBee (Apr 12, 2020)

1d10t said:


> How warm did it get during fermentation?



Being neophyte mead/wine maker, I didn't keep track of the temperature. So, I don't know, but based upon the time of year and the location where I do the fermentation, my guess is that it was at the upper end of the acceptable temp for D47.


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## opus345 (Apr 12, 2020)

Here is a link to my 2018 Capsicumel Mead which turned out fantastic. I like it when people taste it, look at me, and say "You made this?"


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## Arne (Apr 12, 2020)

Try making a fruit wine and use your honey instead of sugar. Personally I think trad. mead tastes like something undrinkable. That being said, my bro. in law thought the stuff was one of the best things he ever drank. Get your fruit base, use the honey to bring the S.G. up to 1.085 or so and backsweeten it a bit when it is finished. Use either honey or sugar to backsweeten. Bet you will be suprised. Had a bottle of pie cherry mead that got stuck back in the cellar. 5 years later I found it and have wondered ever since why i drank any of it while it was still young. Probably going to be another batch of it this early summer when the cherries come ripe. Hope they don't freeze off. Arne.


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## RocketBee (Apr 13, 2020)

Thanks for the replies! Regarding fruit wine using honey instead of sugar, I've been paying attention to @BernardSmith who says:



BernardSmith said:


> In my opinion, the best way to learn how to make mead well is to make what is called a traditional mead - that is honey, water, yeast and nutrients: no other additions. Trad meads are absolutely naked and there is no place to disguise or hide flaws.



I think somewhere else he said once you get the traditional mead making figured out, then add the fruit. it made sense to me, but wow, seems pretty darn hard (at least for me) to make the traditional mead into something that someone would actually like to drink.


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## jgmillr1 (Apr 13, 2020)

RocketBee said:


> which tasted like what I imagine carburetor parts cleaner would taste), but still not very drinkable. In this



This sounds like it oxidized badly. I don't see that you used any sulfites in your list but that might just be assumed. Regardless, the pH in mead tends to run high meaning some acid addition via fruit (melomel) or acid blend helps get it down. Higher pH wines are much more prone to oxidation.

I'd be interested getting the opinion of acid/pH management from @BernardSmith on this.



Arne said:


> Personally I think trad. mead tastes like something undrinkable



Yes, I quite agree also. Although I've made a handful of meads, I've decided that I just hate the flavor of honey in wine. I'll keep it for use on my biscuits from now on.


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## cmason1957 (Apr 13, 2020)

jgmillr1 said:


> Yes, I quite agree also. Although I've made a handful of meads, I've decided that I just hate the flavor of honey in wine. I'll keep it for use on my biscuits from now on.



I love the taste of honey, in most cases, but I have never had a mead that made me say, boy I really want more and can't wait to open the next bottle of this. Glad to see I am not alone on this.


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## BernardSmith (Apr 13, 2020)

I don't know if I agree. A good trad - made with a honey that can hold the stage on its own (and that may not be clover honey or wildflower, but it could be Tupelo or meadowfoam or heather honey) that is not overly sweet and that has enough honey to provide all the flavor you are looking for (about 2.5 - 3lbs /gallon) can easily "say" this needs another mouthful and yet another mouthful. It's not so much about the mead demanding that you open another bottle, but when it beckons you for another glass THEN that's a good mead


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## RocketBee (Apr 13, 2020)

Really happy to hear you weigh in @BernardSmith . And if you have any suggestions for my fifth attempt, I would love to hear it.


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## CDrew (Apr 13, 2020)

Maybe mead is just bad. When I was brewing beer, I also had bee hives and made mead 5 gallons at a time for at least 4 batches. I never liked it and in the end, just decided that mead is what you drink when that's all you have. I stopped making it after that and never looked back.


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## Doug’s wines (Apr 13, 2020)

I’ve been reading the responses and finally have to chime in. I used to live near a meadery that everyone raved about. Big award winner. I couldn’t stand the stuff. It’s about the only alcohol I just won’t drink anymore! I’m done even trying to like it. I’m curious @RocketBee , do you like any particular mead? It may just be that you don’t like it in general, or if there are some you like perhaps try to replicate those?


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## RocketBee (Apr 13, 2020)

You know, that thought occurred to me to go visit a meadery and see. But, once I went to visit a real beekeeper's place of business a few years ago (I'm just a hobbyist). This guy has thousands of colonies. He showed me a pile of dregs from his honey production. That when he said, "This is what I sell to the meaderies." A few years later, I actually paid money at the liquor store for a bottle of professionally made stuff, didn't like it, but then remembered what the beekeeper said. Consequently, I've been thinking that meaderies generally use the cheapest honey to make their mead -- or at least their low budget stuff...which is what I would buy. Regardless, I should go just for a tasting somewhere with a lot of skins on the wall and see...and that should settle it once and for all.


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## opus345 (Apr 13, 2020)

Got to say that my melomels were uninspired and i actually dumped some bottles. But my Carmel Apple and Pepper meads are fantastic. My Mango Haberno is shaping up nicely.


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## 1d10t (Apr 14, 2020)

I'm down to my last 2 bottles of my first mead which is a traditional. I'll be sorry to see them go.


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## SVEN (Apr 14, 2020)

Here is a basic formula for a 1 gallon carboy:

*Formula and Process Procedure:*

*Strained juice of 4 limes/lemons/oranges
*1 whole orange peel from juiced orange
*6 g coriander seeds
*Water

*1730 g Salimo wildflower honey
*125 g brown sugar or maple syrup

*5 g EC-1118 yeast
*10 g Fermax yeast nutrient

*Add the juices, peels and coriander seeds to a sanitized SS pot. Add enough water to make 1 gallon. 
*Bring to a boil then cool to 40C. Add the honey and brown sugar; stir to dissolve. Cool to R.T.
*Filter through a fine mesh filter and decant into a 1 gallon sanitized carboy. Check SG and pH.
*Dissolve the EC-1118 in some of the must and add to the carboy. Then slowly add the filtered must back into the original carboy. Vigorously shake the carboy.
*Add 10 g of Fermax dispersed in some must. Do this every day for the first 3 days of the primary. (Total of 4 additions initial + 3) Agitate carboy after each addition. Also, add Fermax slowly to prevent a "volcanic" eruption! Shake vigorously and insert the air lock.
*When the primary is complete, 7-14 days, siphon into another sanitized 1gallon carboy. Be careful not to disturb the sediment
*Clarify. For 1 gallon batch, disperse 4.8 g Ca+2 Bentonite in ~50 ml of must. Heat in microwave for 20 seconds on high to heat to ~60C. Let stand for 15 minutes until adequately hydrated.
*Add Ca+2 dispersion to the carboy. Shake carboy vigorously. Insert air lock. Let stand for 1 month at +5C.
*Move carboy to a room temp environment. Check pH and S.G. Syphon into sanitized, clear 375 ml bottles (or into another sanitized carboy and then decant into the bottles.) 
*Refrigerate.
As always time dramatically improves the flavor.


Note: I took several bottles and fortified one with rum and one with brandy. The starting ABV was 14.4% and targeted 18% using the Pearson Square calculation. Also back-sweetened with 5% honey and added 2 twists of lemon and orange peel.

Good luck!!!

Sven


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## BernardSmith (Apr 14, 2020)

In my opinion, most commercially made mead tastes pretty bad. But then they make mead for folk who assume that a honey wine needs to be sickly sweet and those wineries that make mead may have expertise in wine making but they know diddly squat about making really good quality mead. You want to look for a mead made by a folk who know mead; who live and die by their mead; and who make nothing but mead. But all that said, I only drink mead that I myself have made - and I am no expert (although I did win a first place at the Mazer Cup for a metheglin (a spiced mead) I made four years ago.


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## tradowsk (Apr 14, 2020)

Just my view, but a traditional mead is very simple and thus harder to master. There's nothing for any flaws to hide behind, and so they come right up front. Or, even a well-made traditional mead might not be your cup of tea. I personally don't like dry meads, I backsweeten mine to 1.010-1.025 SG and they taste so much better imho.

My advice would be to try making a melomel, which is a mead with fruit. Easy ones use apple cider (which technically makes it a cyser) or any of the Welch's juices. Target a starting SG of 1.090, ferment dry at about 65F, and then sulfite and backsweeten.


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## countygrapeguy (Apr 14, 2020)

I made a traditional mead last year, and I'm happy with how it turned out. I used d47 yeast as well, and is quite light in alcohol for a mead, just under 12% and fermented dry. It has citric notes (lemon mostly) & flowers. The finish is decently long.

I didn't use much nutrients, actually none at first which resulted in a stalled fermentation but that didn't seem to harm it. My basement crawl space is quite cool, ~65F, which is where is finished fermentation and bulk aged for about 10 months. The honey was sourced from a small farm where the bees had their primary forage from wild blossoms, was harvested in the fall and was unfiltered & unpasteurized.

That's all I can recall about if from the top of my head, let me know if any other details would help


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## winemaker81 (Apr 15, 2020)

I'm in the camp that doesn't enjoy plain mead. Even the best fail to catch my attention. I knew a few master mead makers (as accorded by the SCA) and even their meads didn't excite me.

The meads I've made are wine-strength (12-13% ABV) metheglin (as Bernard said, mead with spices). Last time I used 6 cinnamon sticks, 12 whole cloves, 12 whole allspice for a 5 gallon batch -- all crushed (put in hops bag, wrap in plastic, beat with hammer, discard plastic). I back sweeten to ~1% residual sugar as I find dry mead unpleasant. I've had universally positive feedback on the results.

I used the spices during fermentation, then discard. If the mead is already bottled, you can unbottle and bulk age with spices. Taste every few weeks until you like it. For 1 gallon I recommend using 1/5 of the amounts listed above, e.g., 1 cinnamon stick, 2-3 whole cloves, 2-3 whole allspice. Or whatever spices fit your fancy.

Next batch I'm going to add fresh ginger ...


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## RocketBee (Apr 15, 2020)

countygrapeguy said:


> I made a traditional mead last year, and I'm happy with how it turned out. I used d47 yeast as well, and is quite light in alcohol for a mead, just under 12% and fermented dry. It has citric notes (lemon mostly) & flowers. The finish is decently long.
> 
> I didn't use much nutrients, actually none at first which resulted in a stalled fermentation but that didn't seem to harm it. My basement crawl space is quite cool, ~65F, which is where is finished fermentation and bulk aged for about 10 months. The honey was sourced from a small farm where the bees had their primary forage from wild blossoms, was harvested in the fall and was unfiltered & unpasteurized.
> 
> That's all I can recall about if from the top of my head, let me know if any other details would help


I've done a bit more research on the subject. That research and your comment about your fermentation temperature leads me to believe that my fermentation temp was just plain too high. Thanks for the reply.


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## Mead Maker (Apr 15, 2020)

I’ve never tasted a commercial mead that was worth drinking, and I’ve tried a lot of them. 

When I hold my mead making class — usually at local beekeeping clubs — I always end with a tasting. The first half dozen bottles are commercial meads. After 10 years of classes I’ve only had one person that liked the way any of them tasted. Usually there are a lot of funny faces when they taste some of the worse dreck they’ve ever put in their mouths. 

Then they taste my meads and it’s smiles all around. That’s why people started asking me to hold classes. 

Mead is a very time sensitive wine. It’s not something you’ll be drinking 3 months down the road. Mead competitions typically will only take entries that are a year old or older. Some only take 2 or 3 year old entries. 

Before making my first ever batch of mead I checked the internet for mead recipes. I‘ve been making “country wines” since I was 10 years old will pretty much try turning anything sweet into wine. When I saw the internet recipes I thought why the heck are they adding things like oranges and cinnamon to a wine? I decided to make my mead like I would any other wine. 

Even after a year it tasted and smelled terrible. I put the 9 gallon batch out of the way in my wine room and forgot about it. At 2 years it was still awful — but a little better. At 4 years it was drinkable but not great. 

At 5 years old it became nectar of the gods. It was outstanding and I took home 3 blue ribbons at the Delaware Beekeepers competition. The original batch was sweet mead, several gallons were fermented to dryness and a higher ABV, and the original was blended with a ruby sherry for my “augmented mead.”

It seems that time is a critical factor in mead production. 

A few years ago I worked with a yeast PhD from a local university who wanted to be able to produce a drinkable mead in 30 days. That goal was unreasonable, but I was able to make a blue ribbon mead in 366 days. I swept the competition. 

The honey you use makes a difference. Tasty honey makes tasty wine. 

The mead recipe from WMT member Sven calls for boiling the must. IMHO you should NEVER boil your honey — it just removes the delicate flavors that distinguishes the various varieties of honey in the finished mead. 

Others call for adding meta bisulfites to the must. There is no need because honey is a natural antiseptic. I have never used bisulfites in any of my meads and have never had a problem. 

In general I think the members of the WMT add sulfites to their wines way too much and too often. Wines are living entities and I have no desire to kill them. I add sulfites right after crushing and pressing — and never again. You may feel your wine is perfect at a particular moment and want to keep it there, but you miss the complex flavors that come with age. 

I make a cranberry wine that is very tasty at 90 days, and makes a great addition to Thanksgiving dinner. I recently found a 2013 batch lost in my wine room. It’s so much better than what I was bottling at 90 days. The flavor and aroma of the cranberries is more distinct. I look forward to entering it in competition. 

A final word on an old thread on “Brochet,” or burnt mead. Like a Cajun roux, you never want to burn your honey. That burned flavor will be there forever — and that’s not good. You want to brown or caramelize the honey to bring out the flavor.


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## RocketBee (Apr 15, 2020)

@Mead Maker thank you for the thoughtful reply and you make a compelling case. First of all, I know nothing...really. But I am curious...a little slow sometimes, but not dumb. You seem to be a bit at odds with those who claim to make drinkable...and even high-quality meads in much shorter time frames using modern methods of staggered nutrient addition, oxygenation and prepping the yeast for the long trip through the nutrient desert of mead must. I'm hearing that when the yeast isn't happy then they produce all sorts of fusels and off-flavors. And folks who don't do this are making poorer quality mead which is why they say it takes time for a good mead to develop. What do you say about these methods and claims?


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## Rice_Guy (Apr 16, 2020)

* I agree with @BernardSmith, doing plain is a harder test/ skill level, ,, for me if I can do a good dandelion my mechanical process is down. To @jgmillr1 comments, , oxidation is our biggest risk when we stray away from red grape. There are several layers of antioxidants that are missing in fruit wine,,,, so what do you/ I have to add to get as good as red grape?
By design I put most fermentations at a pH of 3.25 and use metabisulphite.
* in judging I would say there are three I have really liked. A blood orange mead that was best of class, a brouchet, and a crab apple cyser. Most of the mead in the Vinters club or at contest feels blah,,, not very hedonic. Wonder what @Mead Maker tasted? the contest brouchet I had had Carmel notes.
* what I learned in the vinters club is: meads have better honey notes at 18 months than at 9, so hide some in the back of the shelf, meads take a long time to clear unless you boil/ denature the proteins in it
* we hear the term “balance“ when it comes to wines. Balance is a tool which we use to hide problems. With the cyser last fall I added Roughly 50% crab apple to insert tannic/bitter flavors since straight meads missed this and it is in red grape. My opinion is 50% crab was too high since to finish it,, the bitterness was balanced by back sweetening to 1.020 with organic apple concentrate. Yes this had acid blend in the recipe.

Good luck on the next batch.
(two cents worth ,,, my point of view is a food industry person who could call flavor houses for “flavor tools” to play with,,, and most things off the lab bench don’t last over a year)


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## Mead Maker (Apr 16, 2020)

"RocketBee" thank you for the thoughtful reply and you make a compelling case. First of all, I know nothing...really. But I am curious...a little slow sometimes, but not dumb. You seem to be a bit at odds with those who claim to make drinkable...and even high-quality meads in much shorter time frames using modern methods of staggered nutrient addition, oxygenation and prepping the yeast for the long trip through the nutrient desert of mead must. I'm hearing that when the yeast isn't happy then they produce all sorts of fusels and off-flavors. And folks who don't do this are making poorer quality mead which is why they say it takes time for a good mead to develop. What do you say about these methods and claims?

======

Bernard Smith casually mentioned that he won a first at the Mazer Cup in 2016 for his spiced mead. That’s like saying, “by the way, I won a gold medal at the last Olympics.”

Hail to thee, Bernard. I stand in the shadow of your greatness.

In general, I’ve always thought spiced wines were invented thousands of years ago to hide flaws in the wine, just as marinades were invented to cover the taste of meat gone bad. That said, I’d be interested in tasting a spiced mead done right.

Rocket Bee is right. The yeast professor is really big on “pushing the fermentation,” as he calls it. Following his technique, I have used more yeast nutrients with one batch than I have used in total for years with my usual meads.

In addition to the usual yeast nutrients I use diastatic malt powder, a product used primarily by bread bakers. It really gives fermentation a big kick in the butt. I recommend it highly.

Basically, you add more nutrients and honey whenever your primary fermentation slows down.

With a large fermentation vessel, like a 10 gallon bucket or vat, it’s often difficult to judge fermentation vigor by sight. I fill a 750 ml “test bottle” halfway with my must and top it with a balloon. When the balloon starts to deflate it’s time to add more nutrient. I pour my test bottle into the vat, add my nutrients and some honey, give it a good stir, and refill my test bottle. Repeat every time the balloon deflates until you reach the alcohol tolerance of the yeast you’re using. This should take from 10 to 21 days, but let your balloon be your guide

And stir your must twice a day.

Once primary fermentation has stopped, it’s time to let the mead sit and age. It will clear in abut 30 days, but in my experience, this stage takes about a year for a good tasting wine.

The big commercial meadery in my area bottles after 30 days, or less using osmotic filtering. IMHO, their product is horrible.

I filled a bottle with my 1 year mead to test next March, and will compare it with the mead aging in the vat. There shouldn’t be much difference between the two, but my feeling is that the vat-aged mead will taste better. Only time will tell.


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## hounddawg (Apr 16, 2020)

i spent a few years trying to make traditional meads and quite a few melomels, not my cup of tea either, i got a couple cases of a blackberry flora melomel 2014, used organic wildflower raw honey, blackberries and some floral tasting hops from Australia, opened a bottle last week, my opinion hasn't changed, but my reckoning is it is most likely it is my lack of talent, but after reading this thread, i might try a pineapple reaper pepper but if i do i'll have to ponder on the type honey, i knew better then read these threads dang it anyway,,,
Dawg


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## Yooper🍷 (May 2, 2020)

Been beekeeping for 6 years. In 2015 I made this batch of carbonated in the bottle Lemon Mead. Just cracked a bottle. Still fizzes and clear and tastes great so it can be done keep trying. I could post recipe if you want. Monty


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## RocketBee (May 3, 2020)

Yooper🍷 said:


> I could post recipe if you want.


Please?


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## Yooper🍷 (May 3, 2020)

Dug up my notes from May of 2015 - made a little over 4 gal - 16 16oz swing tops and 24 12 oz beer bottles w/caps
5/18/15
2 3/4 gal of water to 170 degrees
3 lb honey
3 cans Natural Minute Maid Premium Lemonade Frozen Concentrate (12 oz cans)
2 1/2 Tsp Yeast Nutrient 
1 Lb corn sugar
mix all till dissolved and cool 
spg 1.071
Add rehydrated EC1118
5/19/15
1 lb corn sugar in 1 pint water and boil for 3 min - cool
8 oz honey
5/26/15
1 lb corn sugar in 1 pint water and boil for 3 min - cool
8 oz honey
sg 1.085
When sg got to 1.022
added 8 oz corn sugar in 1/2 pint water and boil for 3 min - cool
1 lb honey
rehydrated pkg of Champaign yeast
sg 1.04
8/05/15
Racked in new carboy
9/06/15
5 0z plain sugar in 8 - 10 oz water and boil for 3 min - cool
rack into bottling bucket
stir and bottle

Thats what I did - made it couple of times since then. Was always good


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## winemaker81 (May 4, 2020)

I don't recall anyone mentioning ABV. In my experience, beer strength mead (5%-8%) appears to age much quicker than wine strength (11%-14%). This makes sense -- I've read articles regarding wines that age for decades which mention a number of contributing factors, including higher alcohol content. Consider that normal red wines can take years to develop, so there's no reason to believe that mead might not require the same.

@RocketBee -- Put your mead away for another year then test it. It costs nothing to do that, and you might be pleasantly surprised.


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## 1d10t (May 4, 2020)

I just added some glycerine and xylitol to some mead that is about 6 months old. This mellowed out a bitter aftertaste. Still some rocket fuel going on but pretty good otherwise. I'll probably bottle it today after another taste and sit on it for awhile.


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## Yooper🍷 (Jun 21, 2020)

Did a 3 gal. Batch of carbonated lemon mead in 2015. Have a few bottles left and it still tastes great.


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## RocketBee (Jun 28, 2021)

So, I made another batch of traditional mead with my own honey, which is a very sweet, but a light-tasting honey. I didn't use D47 like the last time and I fermented in the basement which was quite a bit cooler so the fermentation temp was cooler as well. The mead that has been produced doesn't taste like crap this time. No off-flavors...but nothing incredible. I don't think my light-tasting honey is suited for a traditional mead...it probably would be a good base for spiced mead or a melomel. But, the good news is that I followed @BernardSmith and his suggestion to make a good traditional before jumping in to a fruit melomel just to cover up the imperfections. I also should say that I got some help from a new friend who was a runner up in the Mazer cup to guide me. That certainly helped!

All that to say this: I paid up for some meadowfoam honey and I want to make a traditional mead with it. Any suggestions for a yeast and a solid recipe...traditional or otherwise? I've seen a couple recipes online using either D47 or QA-23 yeast. I'm not opposed to using D47, but still a bit gun-shy as I believe I would need some method of keeping the fermentation cool.


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## Yooper🍷 (Jun 28, 2021)

It has to be the recipe. I have a few bottles of sparkling lemon mead from 2015. That still tastes great. Don’t give up. Find a new recipe.


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## BernardSmith (Jun 28, 2021)

Meadowfoam honey has a taste of marshmallows and that honey can hold center stage in a one man show. The thing is that wildflower and clover honeys are delightful honeys but they really cannot hold the spotlight.

Not so much a suggestion but I tend to use 71B.
Robert Ratliff who is a friend of Gotmead and who has had two books of mead recipes published by Gotmead suggests K1V-1116 for traditionals.. You might also check out Premier Blanc. And I have used DV10 which produces delightful mouthfeel qualities but that yeast is not one that my LHBS tends to stock (MoreBeer may have this in manageable quantities)


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## dmw_chef (Jun 28, 2021)

@RocketBee I'm a big fan of QA-23 for trads; it's a big glycerol producer that really helps with mouthfeel. If it runs warm, it throws some pleasant tropical esters instead of vomit like D47. I posted my usual go-to recipe for a trad here. I've been kinda curious how that worked out for @David Violante. 

There are a couple things I'd add if you really want to up your game:


 150ppm FT Blanc Soft (about .6g/gal) at pitch. 
1.25g/gal opti-white at pitch
1.25g/gal booster blanc (can be at pitch, I prefer somewhere around the 1/2-2/3 sugar break)

I think people sorta miss the point on the 'master traditionals' advice; everyone always focuses on the flaws, but it's really all about the balance. Using good yeast selection, modern practice and nutrition, it should be fairly easy for even a beginner to produce meads without major flaws. In traditionals, however, getting a clean ferment is only part of the story. I would posit that achieving good acid/tannin/sugar balance is **more** important in traditional meads (especially dry) than in possibly any other style of wine. If you want to *master* the traditional, you're going to need to also learn how to use oak, powdered tannins, and acids to balance your mead in secondary. 

My process once primary is finished usually comes down to:

 Rack onto .38g/gal k-meta, optionally stabilize with k-sorb and back sweeten
Add .5 oz/gal oak **cubes** for 4 months
Bench trial acid and powdered tannin additions
Bottle at least 8 weeks after any powdered tannin additions
I outline my process for bench trials (evaluating how a particular powdered tannin or acid addition will impact the mead) here.


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## RocketBee (Jun 28, 2021)

Wow! Thanks for the post @dmw_chef ...amazing stuff for slobs like me. And, my Mazer cup friend who helped me encouraged me to use the finish tannins as well as the opti-white and oak cubes AND the use of acid additions/back sweetening to get the proper balance. So all that seems to be a good practice for success. Also, I'm curious about your trad recipe's use of Fermaid-K in addition to Fermaid-O. Usually I just see the O and not the K.

And finally, "pleasant tropical esters" sounds a bit more to my liking than "D47 vomit."


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## RocketBee (Jun 28, 2021)

BernardSmith said:


> Meadowfoam honey has a taste of marshmallows and that honey can hold center stage in a one man show. The thing is that wildflower and clover honeys are delightful honeys but they really cannot hold the spotlight.
> 
> Not so much a suggestion but I tend to use 71B.
> Robert Ratliff who is a friend of Gotmead and who has had two books of mead recipes published by Gotmead suggests K1V-1116 for traditionals.. You might also check out Premier Blanc. And I have used DV10 which produces delightful mouthfeel qualities but that yeast is not one that my LHBS tends to stock (MoreBeer may have this in manageable quantities)


@BernardSmith thanks again for your reply. I wanted to use DV10 for my last trad, but the LHBS guy looked at me like I had two heads growing out of my neck when I asked for it. So I opted for D21 instead.


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## dmw_chef (Jun 28, 2021)

RocketBee said:


> Also, I'm curious about your trad recipe's use of Fermaid-K in addition to Fermaid-O. Usually I just see the O and not the K.



It has been my experience (augmented by experiences of many trusted friends) that when you start pushing into higher ABVs (>14-15%), especially when you're trying to push past the ABV tolerance of your yeast, a combination of organic and inorganic YAN is more reliable than organic nutrition on its own. When I calculate nutrition, I fill YAN first up to Scott Lab's recommended limit from O, then up to the TTB limit from K, then up to the TTB limit from DAP, then fill the remainder of the YAN supplementation with O. 

Here is a good read if you'd like to understand yeast nutrition a bit better.


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## David Violante (Jun 29, 2021)

dmw_chef said:


> @RocketBee I'm a big fan of QA-23 for trads; it's a big glycerol producer that really helps with mouthfeel. If it runs warm, it throws some pleasant tropical esters instead of vomit like D47. I posted my usual go-to recipe for a trad here. I've been kinda curious how that worked out for @David Violante.
> 
> There are a couple things I'd add if you really want to up your game:
> 
> ...



Apologies for being late to the conversation here... I've had good outcomes with QA23 for mead, a bochet (caramelized honey before fermentation), a mango wine, and an earl grey wine as well. 

I definitely suggest the advice of others here and follow a routine with nutrition including a yeast starter. I also follow many of the suggestions for balancing to taste in the secondary. I've used all those components mentioned above in varying amounts and they've really improved the mead at least in the short term. Bench test each component to see what you like. And wait. That's the hardest for me. 

And if you like mead, superb... enjoy it and make it and tweak it and learn from each thing you do. Journal it as well. If you don't like mead, that's superb too. We all like a variety of things on here and approach what we do in our own ways as crafters based on what we like. 

There's a lot of great resources here for anything you're interested in, and much of it criss-crosses. There are some very basic processes and premises, but then again some of those have been challenged by folks here as well with varying and interesting results. That's one of the great things about this forum. Everyone is sharing their own experiences and lending their particular expertise as well. 

I bee keep too and have had some great honey, and some marginal, bizarro, 'what have you been up to' honey. What you put into your mead is what you get out of it. Keep at it. Make smaller batches to start so that you become more comfortable with what you're doing and don't have huge losses if you really don't like something. Also, a shout out to the folks posting here who've shared their experiences. Much thanks ~ 

@RocketBee can't wait to hear how you make out ~


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## Vlabruz (Feb 26, 2022)

What were your gravities? Did you back sweeten? I'm making a plain mead for the first time. I added raisins, orange zest and I brewed cinnamon black tea in with the boiled zest. Was at 1.030 yesterday so need more time.


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