# Wine Kit Degassing



## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm a noob so forgive me, I have searched and read a million and one threads about degassing and how it's such an extremely important part of wine making, however, I still have some questions.

So far, I have only made kit wines. The degassing steps in these kits say to take a spoon and stir (or rip) through the wine to cause the degassing, according to the kits most say to do it for about 5 minutes or so. That's typically the extent of it. I have a fizz-x I believe it's called and I typically degass for about 10min or more during the step above. I typically stop even though I could still get more gas out of the wine.

Is it safe for me to go back a few days later and degass again even though the kit instructions don't call for it? I have 3 carboys full of finished wine just waiting to be bottled, should I degass them again before I bottle? With this harm them in anyway? If I understand correctly this could cause oxidation, which is more worth risking? Oxidizing the wine but degassing it further, or less oxidation and more CO2 in the wine?

Is there a very detailed article about degassing that you know of?

Thank you all in advance!


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## robie (Apr 2, 2012)

Matt723 said:


> I'm a noob so forgive me, I have searched and read a million and one threads about degassing and how it's such an extremely important part of wine making, however, I still have some questions.
> 
> So far, I have only made kit wines. The degassing steps in these kits say to take a spoon and stir (or rip) through the wine to cause the degassing, according to the kits most say to do it for about 5 minutes or so. That's typically the extent of it. I have a fizz-x I believe it's called and I typically degass for about 10min or more during the step above. I typically stop even though I could still get more gas out of the wine.
> 
> ...



You don't want to leave any gas at all in your still wine. As long as CO2 gas is still coming out, you should continue to degas.

The problem with oxidizing the wine comes in when you whip or rip air down into the wine. Don't stir so hard that you create a vortex that sucks air in.

You can degas again before you bottle without any problems. I always give my wine one last shot at degassing before I bottle.

When you stir, you will always get some bubbles, but they might be just air bubbles. CO2 bubbles are the very tiny bubbles, like when you open a can of coke. You can take a small sip of the wine and feel it on the end of your tongue to determine if you feel any fizziness. Once that fizziness is gone, the wine is degassed.


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## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

robie said:


> You don't want to leave any gas at all in your still wine. As long as CO2 gas is still coming out, you should continue to degas.
> 
> The problem with oxidizing the wine comes in when you whip or rip air down into the wine. Don't stir so hard that you create a vortex that sucks air in.
> 
> ...



I think I'm maybe confusing CO2 and oxygen bubbles, it seems like I could degass all day and get bubbles. I try not to create a vortex but in some cases I do get one. My process is simple, with a drill and the fizz-x wand I drill forward for a few seconds then back for a few seconds and continue back and forth "ripping" the wine. In some cases I have done this for about 15min and can still get some bubbles.

Is it possible to over do this?

For those of you who use fizz-x drill attachment, what is your method and what is an average amount of time it takes you to degass?


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## robie (Apr 2, 2012)

Matt723 said:


> I think I'm maybe confusing CO2 and oxygen bubbles, it seems like I could degass all day and get bubbles. I try not to create a vortex but in some cases I do get one. My process is simple, with a drill and the fizz-x wand I drill forward for a few seconds then back for a few seconds and continue back and forth "ripping" the wine. In some cases I have done this for about 15min and can still get some bubbles.
> 
> Is it possible to over do this?
> 
> For those of you who use fizz-x drill attachment, what is your method and what is an average amount of time it takes you to degass?



I haven't used the fizz-x, but when a vortex starts to form, if you can switch directions with one of them in your drill, I would simply switch to the other direction. It is the deep vortex that really pulls air into the wine.

Yes, you can put water in a bottle and shake it and get bubbles. You can even get a little puff the you release the pressure. The trick is knowing the difference between these bubbles and CO2. That's why you need to taste the wine and determine if you can feel that fizziness or not.


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## TouronVineyards (Apr 2, 2012)

I have an attachment for my drill also. I found the best way to degassing the wine is to put it on the lowest setting possible. I have a dual speed/torque drill. Put it on the low torque and low speed. It will degas the wine without making the vortex to allow more air back into the wine. Good luck


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## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

robie said:


> I haven't used the fizz-x, but when a vortex starts to form, if you can switch directions with one of them in your drill, I would simply switch to the other direction. It is the deep vortex that really pulls air into the wine.
> 
> Yes, you can put water in a bottle and shake it and get bubbles. You can even get a little puff the you release the pressure. The trick is knowing the difference between these bubbles and CO2. That's why you need to taste the wine and determine if you can feel that fizziness or not.



So sampling is the best way to determine when a wine is degassed? This I can do... if I'm good at anything in my process, it's sampling.


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## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

TouronVineyards said:


> I have an attachment for my drill also. I found the best way to degassing the wine is to put it on the lowest setting possible. I have a dual speed/torque drill. Put it on the low torque and low speed. It will degas the wine without making the vortex to allow more air back into the wine. Good luck



Approximately how long do you degass? Assuming you are constantly going forward/reverse.


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## robie (Apr 2, 2012)

Matt723 said:


> So sampling is the best way to determine when a wine is degassed? This I can do... if I'm good at anything in my process, it's sampling.



Think of the fizz in Champagne. You can certainly feel it on the tongue. Young wine will be a little tart or even bitter, so don't confuse that sensation with fizziness.

I know at first it is a challenge to get the gas out. Once you get a little experienced, you will not have such a problem. I thought I had degassed my first batch of kit wine well, but when I opened it two years later, I was not too happy. But the worse thing that will happen is you will have to decant the wine until the fizz is gone, just like I did.

Stay with it and you will get it!


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## TouronVineyards (Apr 2, 2012)

Matt723 said:


> Approximately how long do you degass? Assuming you are constantly going forward/reverse.



I usually degas for about 5-10 minutes.


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## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

robie said:


> Think of the fizz in Champagne. You can certainly feel it on the tongue. Young wine will be a little tart or even bitter, so don't confuse that sensation with fizziness.
> 
> I know at first it is a challenge to get the gas out. Once you get a little experienced, you will not have such a problem. I thought I had degassed my first batch of kit wine well, but when I opened it two years later, I was not too happy. But the worse thing that will happen is you will have to decant the wine until the fizz is gone, just like I did.
> 
> Stay with it and you will get it!



Thanks for your help! I can understand what your saying about fizzyness, I'll try this method on Wed when I rack/degass a few carboys.

I have a few kits I have put down for long term aging, since I am new at this I am in the build up stock mode. So far I have a Shiraz, Chat Dormant, and Borolo that are now aging, they may only make it until next year though.


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## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

TouronVineyards said:


> I usually degas for about 5-10 minutes.



Do you taste your wine or use visual signs to determine when to stop?


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## Dugger (Apr 2, 2012)

Temperature of the wine is a very important factor when degassing. The CO2 comes out much easier when it is about 75*F - think of a cold beer vs a warm beer and how much easier the warm one fizzes - this is the CO2 coming out. 
If your wine is cool try to warm it up and it should go easier.
Another way to check for gas in your wine is to put some in a glass, swirl it, tip it up and back down, like you're checking the legs, and if you have tiny bubbles stuck to the side of the glass then there is still Co2 in it.


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## TouronVineyards (Apr 2, 2012)

Matt723 said:


> Do you taste your wine or use visual signs to determine when to stop?



When I first started wines, I would taste the fine. Now I just do it for that long out of habit.


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## TouronVineyards (Apr 2, 2012)

TouronVineyards said:


> When I first started wines, I would taste the fine. Now I just do it for that long out of habit.



I meant taste the wine, not taste the fine. Darn auto correct


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## robie (Apr 2, 2012)

I have never been successful rying to degas for a specific amount of time. There are several actors that can affect the amount of time it takes. As was mentioned about, wine degases better when the temperature of the wine is in the mid 70's F. Some wines just don't seem to have as much gas as others. 

I just degas until the fizz is gone, how ever long that takes. Of course now I use a vacuum pump for degassing, so it is much easier. As I already mentioned, just before bottling, I do hit the wine with the vacuum again to make sure the gas is gone.


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## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

Once fermentation is completed is it safe to degass the wine anytime throughout the process? For example the kits I use have me adding packets and degassing in certain orders, once I have done this can I degas at will? The reason for this is sometimes when I degass I get a lot of head, this way I can leave it settle out for a day or so then degas again. Is that acceptable?

Also, what type of vacuum pump do you use? I saw a video where a guy uses a little vacuum pump that are typically for bottles to make them last longer in the fridge, would this work for whole carboys?


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## robie (Apr 2, 2012)

Matt723 said:


> Once fermentation is completed is it safe to degass the wine anytime throughout the process? For example the kits I use have me adding packets and degassing in certain orders, once I have done this can I degas at will? The reason for this is sometimes when I degass I get a lot of head, this way I can leave it settle out for a day or so then degas again. Is that acceptable?
> 
> Also, what type of vacuum pump do you use? I saw a video where a guy uses a little vacuum pump that are typically for bottles to make them last longer in the fridge, would this work for whole carboys?



Normally, the head created from CO2 degas will dissipate in only a few minutes (or less. think of the head on a glass of coke.). You shouldn't have to wait days. Probably what you are seeing is nothing more than foam created from air being mixed into the wine.

I would degas when the instructions say, then again before you bottle, if that second degas is necessary.

Yes, you can use a Vacu-Vin type bottle preserver vacuum. It doesn't create a very big vacuum, but it will work. George of The Winemakers Toy Store shows how to use one in his video section about making wine from kits.

I purchased a full vacuum pump, like the one sold by Allinonevacuum, one of our sponsors and a member of this forum. He has a complete solution, which includes the bottling attachments. If you are going to be making wine on a regular basis and long term, you will eventually want a nice vacuum pump.


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## Matt723 (Apr 2, 2012)

Now I'm a little worried, I definitely had lots of foaming when I thought I was degassing. As you said I was probably oxygenating the wine rather than degassing it, how bad will this affect my wine? I did this right after fermentation was complete.

I was looking at buying the all in one vacuum, I'm hoping I'll just win one today instead!  I also have a line on a buon vino mini-jet filter and I understand I can use this for filling bottles as well. Not sure about degassing though.


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## robie (Apr 2, 2012)

Matt723 said:


> Now I'm a little worried, I definitely had lots of foaming when I thought I was degassing. As you said I was probably oxygenating the wine rather than degassing it, how bad will this affect my wine? I did this right after fermentation was complete.
> 
> I was looking at buying the all in one vacuum, I'm hoping I'll just win one today instead!  I also have a line on a buon vino mini-jet filter and I understand I can use this for filling bottles as well. Not sure about degassing though.



Just my own opinion, but the vacuum pump is much more valuable than a filter. I own a filter but seldom ever filter my wines. That vacuum pump is a work saver. If you can only buy one of them, buy the vacuum pump from All In One, because it includes the bottling attachments, which are extremely helpful.


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 2, 2012)

I was looking at buying the all in one vacuum, I'm hoping I'll just win one today instead!  I also have a line on a buon vino mini-jet filter and I understand I can use this for filling bottles as well. Not sure about degassing though.[/QUOTE]

I have never heard about using the buon mini-jet using it to fill bottles ?
If so please inform me 

thanks steve
http://allinonewinepump.com/


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## rjb222 (Apr 2, 2012)

The mini jet is not intended for bottling just filtering. Buo vino has their own bottler but it is a seperate machine.


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## Matt723 (Apr 4, 2012)

> I have never heard about using the buon mini-jet using it to fill bottles ?
> If so please inform me
> 
> thanks steve
> http://allinonewinepump.com/



A friend of mine does it, he's gotten pretty good at it too. Lines up all the bottles and moves from bottle to bottle very quickly then once he's done he'll go back and top them up to exact levels before corking.

Then he rinses the bottles once they are corked.


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