# JAO - bitterness, can it be fined away?



## pelican (Oct 5, 2008)

Hi all,

I made a batch of the Joes Ancient Orange, including the bread yeast like the recipe said - and the whole orange pith peel and all. Trouble is all I had were big thick skinned navel oranges, and man does this stuff taste bitter now.

Is there any way to fine this away? Egg whites? Milk? Gelatin?

Or, will it eventually age away??

It finished really dry, not sweet to the taste just heavy duty bitter. I finally removed the fruit from it after waiting eons, and it did drop it's sediment and clear after about 6 months. This was not what I would call a quicky, but I do want it to turn out consumable. 

If there's no recommended fining I'll bottle it and hide it way in the back of the magic pantry and hope that by the time my 6th grader graduates high school it will have mellowed! Any suggestions welcome, thanks in advance.

(Mrs.) Pelican


----------



## Wade E (Oct 5, 2008)

Time might help a little but I dont think it will take it away.Do you plan on sweetening this at all? That might hide a lot of it. Im not wild on mine either as i used 3 cloves for a 3 gallon batch and believe it was too much. Im hoping that will fade a bit more with time.


----------



## smurfe (Oct 5, 2008)

Fining isn't going to help with bitterness, just clearing the wine. If it fermented dry it probably won't change the bitterness. As Wade said, back sweetening will help compensate the bitterness. I have made this Mead a few times and one time mine fermented to dry like yours. Normally it comes out very sweet but you must of had a packet of yeast with a very healthy population that did it's job well. If you do back sweeten you will need to stabilize the mead with some sorbate to inhibit further fermentation. If not it will probably start fermentation again and just raise the alcohol content and still be sitter. It is probably coming from the pith of the orange peel and the oils from the peel. 


If this post sounds weird it is because I have been laying back the home brew since I came home. I had to empty out a keg to keg a batch of English Bitter tomorrow. I have had 6 pints of IPA homebrew and my fingers are numb as I type. So y'all can guess what the rest of me feels like.


----------



## Wade E (Oct 5, 2008)

I type your thinking was fine Smurf!!!!!


----------



## pelican (Oct 5, 2008)

Oh Lordy, smurfe, next time you gotta invite some of us over to help you with that terrible keg-emptying chore. Better yet, bottle that IPA and send em over here! LOL -- you still type better than most of my colleagues, I've been offering to do their typing for $10 /hour on the side but nobody has taken me up on it yet!


----------



## pelican (Oct 6, 2008)

Ok, I had thought maybe sweetening might help or cover up the bitterness. I wasn't too thrilled about that because I don't really like "sweet" wines, but hey, I don't like the bitter either.

I took a small sample tonight and touched it up with a small bit of sugar syrup I had made up (and didn't need) on last wine batch I started. The sugar did mask the bitterness a lot, and the bitter that did come through seemed a nice antidote for the sweet. I tried adding a little honey which made it really sweet and since the honey I have in the pantry is really not very nice honey -- I won't plan to use that to sweeten the batch.

Anyway, I think I'll just bottle the stuff up, let it sit like I said in the back of the magic pantry and forget about it, and if in another year, or two, it's softened the bitter bite then OK, and if it's still a bit harsh, I'll sweeten it up to serve then.

At least now I know - no navel oranges in the JAO!


----------



## Wade E (Oct 6, 2008)

Just cut way down or delete the skins next time.


----------



## smurfe (Oct 7, 2008)

How big a batch did you make and how many oranges did you add? I have made it with the everyday thick skinned naval oranges and it was fine. I think it is just because it fermented to dry as opposed to the oranges. You can use that cheaper honey if you want as well. I have made batches with the cheapest Wal Mart store brand honey that was fabulous.


----------



## pelican (Oct 7, 2008)

It was a one gallon batch, and, I used however many oranges the recipe for JAO calls for. I'll check walmart for the honey - the honey I have is a local brand that some folks suspect is possibly not always honey but maybe tree sap... hmm...urban legend maybe (but we aren't very urban LOL)... it is a weird honey. 

I used a mead-making orange blossom honey from a brew store to make the JAO though. 

If I sweeten with honey, do I heat the honey so it mixes better or, does the alcohol break down the stickiness and so it can blend in??


----------



## Waldo (Oct 8, 2008)

I would heat it up myelf pelican, let it simer for a bit and skim the foam off before adding it.


----------



## NorthernWinos (Oct 8, 2008)

Don't know anything about this mead....but would cold stabilization help with the bitterness?


----------



## moto-girl (Oct 9, 2008)

I used clementines instead of the navel oranges and didn't have any problems with bitterness. The hubby liked it so well I had to stash it away.



I'll bring it out around the holidays and it will hopefully be even better with another 6 months on it.


----------



## PolishWineP (Oct 11, 2008)

How old is your mead? Mine JAO went through lots of changes over time. And yes, I'm sure thata lot of pith will affect the flavor.



But then again, the magic cabinet has done wonders for many things. So stash it and see what happens when you find it again. It's not like it's 6 gallons.


----------



## pelican (Oct 12, 2008)

Princess, my JAO is just past 6 months old from the start. I just wonder if that pith bitterness will mellow over time or not - I guess time will tell. Haven't fully decided anything about it - toying with idea of sweeten half, leave half - bottle up in beer bottles so I can open and check along the way without too much waste. Meanwhile it's clear, filtered crystal clear actually, looks fantastic, just tastes like ... bitter orange pith...


The only honey I have on hand doesn't taste at all like honey. It's a "local" honey and I don't know what it is but maybe it's tree sap instead of honey - I've never tasted such a strange honey in all my life and I've been a diligent honey taster all my life too. Seems also abit illegal to back sweeten a mead with sugar syrup! So, while I wring my hands and w(h)ine "woo is me(ad)", doing nothing can't make it any worse.


Kinda leaning towards The magic closet approach, andsweeten as necessary to make it palatable down the road at drinking time.


Thanks for all your input!


----------



## pelican (Oct 12, 2008)

I see I mentioned that the honey tastes like tree sap in two posts now - sorry for being repetitive. When I get home, I'm going to pour that little funny-honey jar out in the compost and be done with it.


----------



## pelican (Oct 18, 2008)

Ok, so here's what I did. 

I bought some "nice" honey that tasted like real honey, and added 4 Tablespoons to the gallon batch of mead along with the campden and potassium sorbate. 

That brought the SG up to 1.003 and it has a very slight sweetness (I didn't want it to be Sweet, just touched up with sweetness). Bottled it up and .... will leave it blissfully neglected and try it maybe in a year to see if the bitterness mellows.

It may be my wishful imagination, but I could almost say it tasted just a little bit less bad even before I backsweetened it, but I still couldn't bring myself to drink the small bit left over after bottling. 

I'll give it time, and keep the faith that magic things can happen to wine in the bottle.


----------



## moto-girl (Dec 2, 2008)

Wow. I brought a bottle of the JAO to Thanksgiving and it was a hit! I had to steal a sip from my brothers glass just to get a taste. The change in flavor in 6 months is incredible. The honey flavor was dominate, with a hint of orange and the spice coming through at the end. It was sweet, but not dessert sweet. It went really well with the T-day dinner.


----------

