# Chilean Grapes



## JohnT (Apr 27, 2015)

Has anybody been given an update on when the grapes might come in?


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## Enologo (Apr 27, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Has anybody been given an update on when the grapes might come in?



When I spoke to Carrado's last Friday I was told they were expecting a shipment on May 1. My brother in law was told second week of may so either way right around the corner.


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## olusteebus (Apr 27, 2015)

Who from? I am expecting juice next week but have not heard a word. I will be getting it from Pardo Grapes. I expected to hear from them by now. Web site it down.


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## JohnT (Apr 27, 2015)

Enologo said:


> When I spoke to Carrado's last Friday I was told they were expecting a shipment on May 1. My brother in law was told second week of may so either way right around the corner.


 

What do you plan on making eno?


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## Enologo (Apr 27, 2015)

Thinking of either another Syrah which is turning out to be one 0f my favs. or might try a malbec.


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## JohnT (Apr 27, 2015)

Doing a cab/merlot and a pinot noir myself. 

I have been told in the past "May 1st" but have found that there are a lot of factors at play here that can delay delivery. I was just wondering what others were told.


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## Enologo (Apr 27, 2015)

Yeah I think at that point you just have to keep checking. Last year I didn't get an email notification like I did the previous year but I'll be watching out for them.


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## Rocco (Apr 28, 2015)

If I pick up grapes, can I wait a day to crush? They will be stored in my basement...only temperature control is home thermostat---currently 70 F or so.


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## JohnT (Apr 29, 2015)

Spoke to Corrado's yesterday. They are now saying the second week in May. I knew that May 1st was a rather aggressive estimate so I am not surprised.

My thinking is since we are dealing with the federal government (customs and the FDA), it could be even further delayed. 

That is perfectly fine with me. More time that I can spend on preparations.


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## ibglowin (Apr 29, 2015)

Was there any damage to the grapes due to the Volcano eruption?


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## Enologo (Apr 29, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Spoke to Corrado's yesterday. They are now saying the second week in May. I knew that May 1st was a rather aggressive estimate so I am not surprised.
> 
> My thinking is since we are dealing with the federal government (customs and the FDA), it could be even further delayed.
> 
> That is perfectly fine with me. More time that I can spend on preparations.



Ditto. Gives me more time to clear the decks.


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## petey (Apr 29, 2015)

Gino Pinto in so. Jersey is unloading Now!!


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## JohnT (May 5, 2015)

Any news folks?


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## Boatboy24 (May 5, 2015)

Harford Vineyard deliveries this weekend.


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## ceeaton (May 5, 2015)

Jim, you sure? I have three separate orders in to Harford and haven't received an email of potential pickup dates yet. I hope it's this weekend so my wife and I can have a lunch date.


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## Boatboy24 (May 5, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Jim, you sure? I have three separate orders in to Harford and haven't received an email of potential pickup dates yet. I hope it's this weekend so my wife and I can have a lunch date.



Here's an excerpt from the email I received yesterday. Are you on their e-mail list?

All Chilean Grape and juice is scheduled to arrive later this week.

Pick up times are as follows:
Friday 10-5
Saturday 10-5
Sunday 10-5
Monday 12-5

If you are not able to make it during these times please call
443-495-1699 or email [email protected] to schedule an appointment.

Grape crushing services will be available on Friday from 10-12 and Saturday from 10-2. Please inform us in advance if you need your grape crushed and bring your containers to transfer must.

We will have plenty of White Labs liquid Malolactic Bacteria for sale as well as some liquid yeast.

Although grape & juice is no longer available via web orders, we have some extra grape available 
6 lugs Cabernet Sauvignon
8 lugs Carmenere
13 lugs Malbec &
5 lugs Syrah

We will also have some extra juice for sale at the vineyard on a first come first serve basis.

As always we look forward to seeing our many loyal wine making customers.

The Mooney Family


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## ceeaton (May 5, 2015)

Nope, never got it. I gave my email address when I ordered the grapes and got an update back at the end of March. Glad I asked. Now my wife and I can plan our escape! Maybe I should email them to let them know I never got an update. Also want to know what the price is this year to destem and crush grapes. I just need one fermenting size bucket for two lugs, right? 

Thanks for the info, Jim!

Update: emailed Teresa. Wasn't sure why I didn't get the email, but I was on the list. Crush is $25 per order, not lug, so I ordered a lug of Malbec to go with the Cab Sauv and Merlot grapes plus the Merlot bucket. Starting to get excited. Interested to taste the Pinot Grigio juice as well.


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## JohnT (May 6, 2015)

Folks, 

Never count your grapes until they are loaded on your truck. I assume that they do not already have the grapes in stock. Anything can SNAFU this.


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## JohnT (May 7, 2015)

Looks like the grapes are coming in early next week.


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## Enologo (May 7, 2015)

OOWE Baby!


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## berrycrush (May 10, 2015)

I picked up my Chilean grapes from Harford yesterterday. Cab Sav is good, brix 25. Syrah is a bit moldy, 20% of the clusters has mold or some fungal damage, brix 22.


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## ceeaton (May 10, 2015)

Picked my order up from Harford on Saturday also. Teresa is an amazing woman. Obviously had a rough day/evening on Friday, but still got an early tasting set up for my wife. Both buckets I picked up were in great condition, juice just needed some ice in a tall glass, very good. Grapes were in very good condition also. One lug each of Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon and Malbec. Pinot Grigio bucket is showing signs of life after pitching yeast after lunch. Will pitch yeast in Merlot bucket w/grapes later this evening. 

Very nice people at Harford, will visit again soon.

Happy Mom's day to all those hard working Mom's out there!


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## JohnT (May 11, 2015)

Just received the announcement that the grapes will arrive on May 14th. 

Looks like we are crushing on Saturday!!!! 

WOOOOOHOOOOO! I can't wait.


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## heatherd (May 11, 2015)

I am picking up Carmenere grapes and juice Tuesday from Harford - looking forward to getting that batch started...


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## mcorey (May 12, 2015)

Heatherd, how are the carmenere grapes? I'm getting some this week too. Do you blend it with anything


Sent from my iPhone 



Mixttibsk


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## JohnT (May 13, 2015)

Just called my local (Corrado's). 

They are now saying that the grapes might not come in until Monday or Tuesday of NEXT week. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!


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## Enologo (May 14, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Just called my local (Corrado's).
> 
> They are now saying that the grapes might not come in until Monday or Tuesday of NEXT week. ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!



They're killing my schedule.


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## JohnT (May 14, 2015)

Enologo said:


> They're killing my schedule.


 
You and me brother. 

What makes it hard is that I received a notice from them on May 9th saying that the juice and grapes will be in "by May 14th". My niece put in for a day off from work and now it is too late for her to change things. Now she is stuck with a day off and nothing to do. 

This also pushes our crush into memorial day weekend and pressing into my Wife's "Birthday Weekend". There is gonna be hell to pay on that one. 

They did say that there would be a "Slim Chance" that the grapes will be in for this weekend. I have my doubts, but still have some hope.

They did tell me to call again today. I will keep you posted.


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## heatherd (May 14, 2015)

mcorey said:


> Heatherd, how are the carmenere grapes? I'm getting some this week too. Do you blend it with anything
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...




The Carmenere grapes are lovely!! I added a lug to a pail of Carmenere juice. 

Used RC212 as my yeast and pitched VP41 MLB concurrently.

Are you blending?

Heather


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## mcorey (May 14, 2015)

Heather,

Yes, I'm gonna ferment seperatly then blend 77% carmenere with 15% cab Sauv and 8% Malbec for a total of about 12-13 finished gallons of wine.

I'm also going to make a 21 gallon blend of 89% Malbec and 11% cab Sauv.

I pick up the grapes tomorrow.

Mike


Sent from my iPhone 



Mixttibsk


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## Enologo (May 15, 2015)

heatherd said:


> The Carmenere grapes are lovely!! I added a lug to a pail of Carmenere juice.
> 
> Used RC212 as my yeast and pitched VP41 MLB concurrently.
> 
> ...



Have you pitched the RC212 and the VP41 together before?? I'm curious because I will be doing MLF on this batch for the first time and I was under the impression that the preferred method was to pitch the MLB after the must was racked off the gross lees???


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## berrycrush (May 15, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Was there any damage to the grapes due to the Volcano eruption?



That's a good thought. But again, don't some of the wine makers boast their grapes grown on volcanic soil as plus? So does volcanic ash have the same effect? ;-)


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## ibglowin (May 15, 2015)

In the soil is one thing but covering the grapes..... Not so good!


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## ceeaton (May 15, 2015)

Adds an underlying smokey minerality


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## heatherd (May 15, 2015)

Enologo said:


> Have you pitched the RC212 and the VP41 together before?? I'm curious because I will be doing MLF on this batch for the first time and I was under the impression that the preferred method was to pitch the MLB after the must was racked off the gross lees???



There's no problem with pitching both yeast and MLB at the same time, based on my experience and research. The important thing when doing so is that you need to omit all kmeta until MLF is complete.

What is your batch going to be?

Heather


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## sour_grapes (May 15, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Was there any damage to the grapes due to the Volcano eruption?



When you posted this originally, I looked into it. The eruption was pretty far south. It HAS affected some grape-growing regions. However, it has not affected the MAJOR grape-growing regions, which are much farther north.


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## Enologo (May 16, 2015)

heatherd said:


> There's no problem with pitching both yeast and MLB at the same time, based on my experience and research. The important thing when doing so is that you need to omit all kmeta until MLF is complete
> What is your batch going to be?
> 
> Heather



I'll be going with a Syrah/Shiraz again although this time I'll be going with BM4X4 and VP41. I used either EC1118 or Premiere Curve last time around and this will be my first MLF.


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## dvizz (May 17, 2015)

*Chlien grape juice*



JohnT said:


> Has anybody been given an update on when the grapes might come in?


Just picked up 2 6gal. pails of Chilien Viognier juice from Gino Pintos located in south Jersey. This
Will be my first white wine and am excited to try it out. What is the biggest difference in making white wine from juice compared to the reds I'v been making. I use two carboys and ferment the wine for about 11 months before bottling.


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## dvizz (May 17, 2015)

*Chlien juice*



dvizz said:


> Just picked up 2 6gal. pails of Chlien Viognier juice from Gino Pintos located in south Jersey. This
> Will be my first white wine and am excited to try it out. What is the biggest difference in making white wine from juice compared to the reds I'v been making. I use two carboys and ferment the wine for about 11 months before bottling. I typically rack one time to clear the sediment.


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## JohnT (May 18, 2015)

dvizz, 


The biggest difference is that you do not need to macerate (leave the juice on the skins). The process is simpler, but tougher to get right IMHO. 

I also feel that Viognier likes a cooler, longer ferment, but that is really just a matter of choice and what you are attempting to achieve. 

I also find that clearing a white is more of a pain. Perhaps the is due to the fact that clarity is not as noticeable in reds. As far as racking, I would advise that you rack more often then once and perhaps even plan to do cold stabilization to get it clear. If you have or plan to get a filter, definitely plan to filter your white.


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## dvizz (May 19, 2015)

*Viognier juice*

Will the SG readings be the same as the red wine juices for primary and secondary fermentation


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## JohnT (May 19, 2015)

dvizz said:


> Will the SG readings be the same as the red wine juices for primary and secondary fermentation


 

In short, yes.


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## Enologo (May 19, 2015)

Okay. Couldn't wait for the grapes so I picked up 4 pails of Syrah juice on Sunday. Pitched the BM4X4 last night and still waiting for it to kick off. Guess I'll have to try a tweak or two later on but I just couldn't wait.


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## JohnT (May 21, 2015)

Called Corrado's yesterday. They said that the Chilean grapes will arrive for the weekend, but when I asked when exactly they would show up they could not say for certain.... 

Stay Tuned!


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## Enologo (May 21, 2015)

Glad I pulled the trigger. I added the second step of nutrient and energizer today and it's moving along quite nicely.


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## JohnT (May 22, 2015)

Called again at lunch time yesterday. The new is that the grapes have cleared customs. I am putting a lit candle in the window in hopes that they will arrive by Saturday morning!


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## eightysixCJ (May 22, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Called again at lunch time yesterday. The new is that the grapes have cleared customs. I am putting a lit candle in the window in hopes that they will arrive by Saturday morning!


 
I called this evening, they expect delivery by midnight. Will call in the am...

Tom


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## Rocco (May 22, 2015)

Omg!!! Stop calling they are coming tommorrow! Lol


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

Rocco said:


> Omg!!! Stop calling they are coming tommorrow! Lol



Hey, they originally told us the first week of May. We have been on hold ever since.


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

WE GOT THEM!!!!

and priced at $24/crate! Worth the wait!

numbers to follow.....


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## Rocco (May 23, 2015)

How long have they been sitting off the vines?


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

Not too sire, but the grapes were clean and plump. Still need to get the numbers, but I think that this is good fruit.

We had fun. My bro and I.


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## Rocco (May 23, 2015)

Nice!! Congrats!!!


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## ceeaton (May 23, 2015)

JohnT, Pictures. Pictures? Pictures! Where are the pictures? I know you took some, you always do!


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

*my numbers*

I did an 80/20 cab/merlot.. ta is .56, initial brick is 25%. Potential A/V is 15.1%

Also did a pure pinot noir.. tags is .575, brix is 26%, with potential a.b.v. of 15.9%.

I made no adjustments and will pitch yeast tomorrow.

These grapes make my Hungarian heart skip a beat. High sugar and acid higher than one would expect. 

Worth the wait and price!


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

I hate spell check!


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## ceeaton (May 23, 2015)

JohnT said:


> I did an 80/20 cab/merlot.. ta is .56, initial brick is 25%. Potential A/V is 15.1%
> 
> Also did a pure pinot noir.. tags is .575, brix is 26%, with potential a.b.v. of 15.9%.
> 
> ...



Curious. You don't mention the pH. Is that something you only worry about after fermentation to adjust sulfite levels?

Not trying to be a smart a**, just trying to learn. I'm thinking I spend too much time worrying about my pH levels.


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

I just have not time to check ph yet. I will in the am


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

PH measures strength, TA measures weight. Both can give a good idea of what grapes are like.


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## ceeaton (May 23, 2015)

Got it. So my personal pH would be low and my TA would be high


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## JohnT (May 23, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Got it. So my personal pH would be low and my TA would be high



Hey, as the bible says, judge not lest yee be judged.


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## ceeaton (May 24, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Hey, as the bible says, judge not lest yee be judged.



JohnT, I was only trying to judge myself, not you (I just read what I wrote in that earlier post and could see it being taken as judgemental towards your numbers). You said pH is strength (I'm pretty weak since I injured my shoulder a few years back) and TA is weight (I've been losing some weight but still come in around 230).

And I heard my Pastor's sermon today. I just can't figure out how he knows all that questionable stuff about me every week.


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## JohnT (May 24, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> JohnT, I was only trying to judge myself, not you (I just read what I wrote in that earlier post and could see it being taken as judgemental towards your numbers). You said pH is strength (I'm pretty weak since I injured my shoulder a few years back) and TA is weight (I've been losing some weight but still come in around 230).
> 
> And I heard my Pastor's sermon today. I just can't figure out how he knows all that questionable stuff about me every week.



I honestly did not take it the wrong way and took no offense... the problem with texting is that one does not hear the tone of voice... please believe me that we are good....


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## eightysixCJ (May 25, 2015)

JohnT said:


> I did an 80/20 cab/merlot.. ta is .56, initial brick is 25%. Potential A/V is 15.1%
> 
> Also did a pure pinot noir.. tags is .575, brix is 26%, with potential a.b.v. of 15.9%.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for sharing! I'm making my first batches, Cab and Merlot. I thought the grapes looked good but appreciate an experienced opinion. What yeast did you use?

Tom


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## JohnT (May 26, 2015)

eightysixCJ said:


> Thanks for sharing! I'm making my first batches, Cab and Merlot. I thought the grapes looked good but appreciate an experienced opinion. What yeast did you use?
> 
> Tom


 

I am using Lalvin RC212.


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## eightysixCJ (May 26, 2015)

JohnT said:


> I am using Lalvin RC212.


 
Thanks. I'm using Pasteur Red.

Tom


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## JohnT (May 27, 2015)

eightysixCJ said:


> Thanks. I'm using Pasteur Red.
> 
> Tom


 
Not one of my favorites. Pasteur red is very prone to H2S issues. Are you adding yeast nutrient? If not, I highly recommend that you do.

What I do is to use a "nutrient cocktail" of both DAP (diammonium phosphate) and fermax. I make up a "nutrient schedule" where I add nutrient in stages... 

The following is the schedule for a 54 liter demijohn. You can scale it down if you are making a carboy...

(day one, prior to pitch) add 27 grams of DAP and 5 grams of fermax.
(day 2 or end of lag phase) add 27 grams of DAP and 5 grams of fermax. 
(day 4 or at 8 brix remaining) add 7 grams of fermax.


Since I started using this "add in stages" method, I have not had any H2S issues. You may want to consider doing the same since Pasture Red is much more prone to H2S issues than RC212.


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## mcorey (May 28, 2015)

Here's an update on my Chilean batches:

324 lbs of Malbec - pressed this week and yielded 26 gallons (12.5lbs/gal)
180 lbs of Carmenere - pressed this week and yielded 15 gallons (12lbs/gal)
72 lbs of Cab. Sauv. - pressed this week and yielded 5.5 gallons (13lbs/gal)

This the highest yield I've ever done. I'm usually around 15-16 lbs/gal


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## eightysixCJ (May 28, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Not one of my favorites. Pasteur red is very prone to H2S issues. Are you adding yeast nutrient? If not, I highly recommend that you do.
> 
> What I do is to use a "nutrient cocktail" of both DAP (diammonium phosphate) and fermax. I make up a "nutrient schedule" where I add nutrient in stages...
> 
> ...


 
This is very helpful! Thank you very much.

I started the yeast with Goferm (poured on top on Sunday evening 5-25), mixed in Monday morning, punched cap morning and evening, added Fermaid 2g/gal. on day 3, and planned on Fermaid 1g/gal. on day 5. 

This evening, Brix at 19.3 in the Merlot and 15.4 in the Cab. both at 83*F in a 73*F room. I don't detect any sulfur or off smell or taste. Sounds like I should increase the feeding on day 5.

Tom


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## JohnT (May 30, 2015)

Pressed today. Pic to follow. Did I say that I love youse guys?


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## Rocco (May 30, 2015)

JohnT you are one of my favorites!


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## JohnT (Jun 1, 2015)

Pressed the Chilean on Saturday. Nice to say that the 2015 Chilean is in the can! Tasted the wine coming off the press. Boy, was it good!. 

The way we press evolved as we aged**. We found out early that it is far better (and easier on the back) to use the following steps..

1) I first remove the cap. I use a large strainer to scoop it up. The strainer is large enough that I can take a scoop and set the strainer on top of the primary to drain a bit. Once drained, I dump the skins into the press. 

_See picture 2, you can see a scoop of skins draining_..

2) I have a 4" diameter PVC pipe that is capped on one end and drilled with a "ga-jillion" holes. I insert this into the primary and use a pump to transfer the free run juice to my secondary (VCSS Tank). 

3) Once done, what little remains is easily dumped into the press. 

This method is a true back saver. There is little to no heavy lifting or stooping!! Old men like me need to work smart, not hard...

4) I press VERY gently. Once the press takes 100 bars of pressure, we open the press and "fork" the pumice (I had made large 2-tyne forks just for this purpose during one of the blacksmithing classes I took). We then close the press back up and give it another squeeze. Pressing takes time. It is best to have something to occupy your time like, say, sampling earlier vintages. We repeat the forking process 2 or 3 times.

5) We use two five gallon buckets *(that were emblazoned with the most beautiful of all designs)* to catch the wine off of the press. One bucket is actively catching the wine while another is waiting in reserve. We have another large strainer the sits on top of the bucket to strain the wine as it is coming off the press. Since we are only pressing the cap which has been drained, there not nearly as much wine that needs to be bucketed from the press.

_See picture 1..._

6) Once complete, and the skins are dry and "sticky" to the touch, and 300 bars of pressure only yield the slightest trickle, we break down the press and clean/wash/putaway all equipment.

7) Once we get to the point where 100 bars of pressure is no longer enough, we start dialing the pressure up. What wine come out at this point is kept separate. I have found that this wine is loaded with tannins and is very bitter. For this year's Chilean of 62 half-lugs, this amounted to the last 5 gallons. This is in it's own carboy. 


** This is the method that evolved as the years went by. I welcome any/all suggestions or comments.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 1, 2015)

Nice write up, @JohnT . I started using a very similar approach on my last pressing back in the fall. It was only my third, but it was light years better, faster and cleaner than the first two.


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## Enologo (Jun 2, 2015)

John I'm curious, how much of an effect do you think that last 5 gallons would make on the rest of the wine if you were to add it in and how do you treat the separated wine??


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## JohnT (Jun 2, 2015)

This definitely makes a difference. You can very easily judge for yourself. Keep your free run wine / soft pressing separate from your hard pressings and taste them when all is said and done. With all of the tannins, the hard pressings will be a lot more bitter, overly sharp, and very biting. 

I save the last 5 gallons and, after a year or so, decide if it is ok to return it to the tank with all the rest, but this is rare.

I mostly just give it away to a niece or nephew that has helped out during the year. Funny, they do not seem to complain about free wine.


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## Enologo (Jun 2, 2015)

That sounds like a great plan. I know that the ones I give away would still be appreciated and it would preserve my stockpile from getting too quickly depleted as happens now. I'll have to try that.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 2, 2015)

Nice work, John!



JohnT said:


> It is best to have something to occupy your time like, say, sampling earlier vintages.
> ...
> 
> 5) We use two five gallon buckets *(that were emblazoned with the most beautiful of all designs)* to catch the wine off of the press.



Hmmm, I am guessing that these two statements are not unrelated!


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## JohnT (Jun 2, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> Nice work, John!
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, I am guessing that these two statements are not unrelated!


 

Finally! someone picked up on that! lol


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## eightysixCJ (Jun 3, 2015)

Looks great! Thank you very much for sharing john.

Tom


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## geek (Jun 4, 2015)

John,

I only do small batches and ferment in small 10gal or 20gal brute.
I find that after scooping up the floating grapes/skins, there are still LOTS of skins sitting and mixed at the bottom with the sludge or thick sediment.

Do you get the same results and simply don't care about the thick sediment at this point since I assume you'll let the wine settle for a day or two and then rack off the sediment?

This time I just did a small batch of 7 Chilean lugs and after scooping all skins from the top, I basically poured the juice and sediment altogether into the press and let the juice run down freely out of the press into a bucket until I then press at the end.
.


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## JohnT (Jun 4, 2015)

We scoop the skins, pump the free run juice into the secondary, then dump the remaining dregs from the primary into the press. There is very little in the bottom of the primary because I mix/punch down twice daily. 

Yes, after a couple of days I rack the wine off of the gross lees.

Dumping the entire primary into the press simply will not work for me. My primaries hold anywhere from 95 to 150 gallons of must (depending on the batch). There is simply no way to lift it. 

We used to pump off the free run first, but that was hard because we now needed to scoop EVERYTHING from the very bottom of the primary. This was a little hard on the back. It was much easier to scoop the skins off first, while 90% of it was sitting at the to of the primary.


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## geek (Jun 4, 2015)

I assume you press at around 1.000.


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## JohnT (Jun 4, 2015)

1.000 specific gravity? 

Yes, anywhere from 2 to 1 brix remaining.


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