# I need help!



## Rocky (Dec 15, 2013)

Does anyone other than me hate bottling wine? There must be something irrational going on with me but I put off, avoid, ignore bottling until the very last moment. Am I alone in this?

Asking another way, do any of you really enjoy bottling wine? If so, why? What equipment do you use?

I have 115 gallons of wine going at present and at least 70% of it should be going into bottles real soon. 

Thanks.


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## the_rayway (Dec 15, 2013)

I actually enjoy bottling my wine (although, I have far less to do than you). We find it quite therapeutic.

We take our time, set up the kitchen, put on some music, and invite friends to help if there are several batches. Have some food ready too. Makes it a fun evening!


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## jamesngalveston (Dec 15, 2013)

i do the same as raylene, invite some friends, turn on some music, make some kind of food, and just make a party.
I have 12 gallon i need to bottle for christmas...I invited everyone over next wed....they all show...


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## Elmer (Dec 15, 2013)

I use the AIO an bottling seems to be quicker than it used to be.

Corking can take a while,
However I usually bribe on of my kids I stand next I me with a bag of corks an Hand them to me as needed


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## cpfan (Dec 15, 2013)

In my experience, the folks that hate bottling are trying to accomplish too much in a short time. Sourcing bottles, cleaning bottles, removing labels, sorting bottles can all be done in advance.

That leaves sanitizing the bottles, bottling, and corking that must be done together. Labelling and shrink capping can be done a couple of days later when the bottles are laid on their side.

I don't know how a crowd would work for a bottling day, but a buddy and I used to do two 6 US gallons a day with the following process....

Before lunch, sanitize, bottle, cork, and sometimes label batch 1. Make and eat lunch. After lunch, sanitize, bottle, cork, and label batch 2. Then we would boil up the water and apply shrink caps. Then dinner. A good productive day (at least that's what we thought).

We figured that we could easily squeeze in a third batch, especially as we usually started about 11am.

Steve


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## cimbaliw (Dec 15, 2013)

Mrs C and I make an evening of it. She vacuum fills bottles and I'm on my knees corking. Funny how that works. I can cork at a rate of 4:1 so I usually fill in the extra time with keeping the bottle supply going, making sure my blood alcohol level doesn't get too low and important stuff like that. Like you I hate bottling so we never do more than 60-75 bottles at a time. My current cadence is about two kits/month so the math works well.


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## firejohn03 (Dec 15, 2013)

Sub the work out. Find a winery near by and have them bottle for you.


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## dralarms (Dec 15, 2013)

Since I got the allinone I love bottling. Up till then I hated it. It was a nasty mess every time I did it.


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## grapeman (Dec 15, 2013)

Any kind of vacuum bottling makes the job easier and more enjoyable. I have a single spout stainless one and you can fill a bottle and cork it while the next one fills. It takes about 10-15 minutes for a 6 gallon carboy.


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 15, 2013)

I know for myself the Allinone will bottle with ease and you are standing up the entire time, Consistent liquid height and no overfill spillage and no more cleaning up of bottles due to spillage. 

These 2 other items are a life saver also - 
the bottle cage which can be used to dry and carry and fill and move your bottles from 1 station to another

The power sanitizer which will reduce time and increase efficiently.


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## ibglowin (Dec 15, 2013)

I LOVE bottling since I got this thing…… 







It is a real joy. I am now filtering and bottling in one step these days. If your not handy with wood and don't think you could build one of these yourself I would seriously look into an AIO. I LOVE bottling time…….

However I still HATE delabeling, cleaning, sanitizing bottles…... This Summer i had to get 20 cases of bottles cleaned and ready for bottling and it was still drudgery for like 2 weeks straight every day I would clean a few cases up and move on. Hate it, hate it, hate it!


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## sdelli (Dec 15, 2013)

I think it is all about investing in the proper tools to make the job go fast and smooth. I fill my bottle tree with rinsed/sanitized bottles... I use the all in one pump with the bottle adapter to fill them. Then a floor corker to install the corks. Labels are printed out on sheets so those are an easy install. Pop all the bottle sleeves on all of them at once and use my hand held heat gun to shrink them up. I would be surprised if it takes me an hour to do a carboy once the bottles are done hanging on the tree!


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## shoebiedoo (Dec 15, 2013)

I'm with Rocky. I have an AIO and a pretty good system but still tend to put it off. I 30 gallons that should already be bottled but I always manage to find something else that needs to get done.


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## jamesngalveston (Dec 15, 2013)

ibglowin....thanks for the pic...will get out my table saw tomorrow...


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## Dugger (Dec 15, 2013)

Like some others, we usually have a bottling party. Four couples seems to be the best number for us to do the required tasks and fit comfortably around to eat, drink and chat afterward. I will assign someone to handle the bottles, one to fill, one to cork and I usually do the labelling. Seems to go quite smoothly. Each couple gets a bottle to take home. 
Bottling is actually the most enjoyable part of making wine for me.


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## RCGoodin (Dec 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Does anyone other than me hate bottling wine? There must be something irrational going on with me but I put off, avoid, ignore bottling until the very last moment. Am I alone in this?
> 
> Asking another way, do any of you really enjoy bottling wine? If so, why? What equipment do you use?
> 
> ...



Rocky, you of all people, I thought would have this down to a science. Do you have the All-In-One vacuum pump? Since I have mine, bottling is very easy.

Cleaning bottle labels is another issue, but like someone said, that can be done days prior to bottling. I have found a bottling supplier where I can get bottles free of labels for $.79 each and some of my purchase goes toward a charity, so it's a no brainer for me.

I hope you find an acceptable solution. Maybe try a box type solution?


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## Julie (Dec 15, 2013)

I enjoy bottling, weekdays are always so hectic and now with Mike getting that new job it is more hectic. So when we have bottling to do, it's grab a couple of glasses taste and bottle. We vacuum bottle, Mike does that and I do the corking, doesn't take long.


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## Rocky (Dec 15, 2013)

Thank you all for some great ideas!

I normally bottle alone and that may be part or most of the problem. I have had offers to help but I have always rejected them. I might need to re-think this.

I like the fixture that Mike shows and this may be the solution to some of my issues. I have an aspirator pump that I use for transferring and filtering. It appears from the picture that Mike posted that the position of the arm, determined by the pivot pin controls the arc when the stopper is lowered to the bottle. It would seem that all of the bottles would need to be about the same height and that is not a problem. One of my issues (and it may be due to my failing manual dexterity) is getting the stopper reliably in the bottle, creating a good seal for suction and then removing the stopper without undue effort. I like the arm on that apparatus that Mike has. I think I can make one myself. Thanks for the picture, Mike.

One of the best ideas is to farm out the bottling! We have a boutique winery here in Powell and I have become well acquainted with the owner. Maybe I could work that angle. It would involve a lot of transportation but it has possibilities.


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## ibglowin (Dec 15, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> ibglowin....thanks for the pic...will get out my table saw tomorrow...



More pics, a video, a link to the shut off valve are located here:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f83/bottling-day-hoffart-auto-bottle-filler-16351/


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## LoveTheWine (Dec 15, 2013)

I like bottling as long as there is someone there for company. My Dad helps me from time to time (he makes wine too) and this is a good time for bonding too!!

I bottled a batch of beer yesterday myself and enjoyed that too.


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## shoebiedoo (Dec 15, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Thank you all for some great ideas!
> 
> I normally bottle alone and that may be part or most of the problem. I have had offers to help but I have always rejected them. I might need to re-think this.
> 
> ...


I am also alone when I bottle  maybe we should rent a warehouse combine our efforts!!!


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## digitaleye (Dec 15, 2013)

Wow, bottling alone is tough. We usually have a crew of 3-4 but I think it could be done effectively with 2. We're usually doing 30-60 gallons so maybe it would scale down enough for 1 person but I still think you're better off with at least 2.

We use one of these 
http://www.homebeerwinecheese.com/wpe2.jpg
and its flawlessly simple and quite clean


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 15, 2013)

I use the All in One, I have absolutely no issues with it, recently i bottled 14 cases of wine within a few hrs, including corking, not to mention bottling 4-6 cases at a time.


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## ou8amaus (Dec 15, 2013)

Not sure if the stores are set up the same way in the states, but my LHBS also functions as a u-brew site (ie they charge a flat rate to ferment kits for you and you show up only on bottling day). They have large washing/sanitizing machines that can process 30 bottle in about 5-10 minutes. They charge $2.00 per load to wash/sanitize. I go on my lunch and run them through, and then I am ready to bottle using my AIOP that evening. This needless to say has significantly decreased my bottling time...


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 16, 2013)

No disrespect but what fun is it to have everything done for you? It would be easier just to go to the local liquor store and buy a bottle of wine.


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## grapeman (Dec 16, 2013)

Pumpkinman said:


> No disrespect but what fun is it to have everything done for you? It would be easier just to go to the local liquor store and buy a bottle of wine.


 
Not in Canada. The taxes there are very high so it pays to make your own and some choose to do very little of the making.


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## richmke (Dec 16, 2013)

Rocky said:


> I have an aspirator pump that I use for transferring and filtering. It appears from the picture that Mike posted that the position of the arm, determined by the pivot pin controls the arc when the stopper is lowered to the bottle. It would seem that all of the bottles would need to be about the same height and that is not a problem. One of my issues (and it may be due to my failing manual dexterity) is getting the stopper reliably in the bottle, creating a good seal for suction and then removing the stopper without undue effort.



I had my own aspirator pump, and bought the tubing from AIO. Had a nice chat with Steve to figure out what I needed, and he built to suit (matched the port size on my pump). With AIO's bottling tubes, there is no problem.

1) The stopper is sized for wine bottles. Easy on, easy off.

2) The pump sucks in the wine until you depress the bleeder valve on the line.

3) Reverse siphon takes the excess wine in the bottle back to the carboy. The level is set by how high you extend the inlet tube in the stopper.

You can't see it in AIO's webpage (unless they updated it recently), but the bleeder valve is a high quality brass valve. That is why the tubing setup costs so much.

The only problem I have, is all the tubing lying around my kitchen. Limited in counter space, so it is fairly disorganized at bottling time. Hard to find a clean space to drop the tubing for a minute to do something else.


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## jamesngalveston (Dec 16, 2013)

i dont know if you have a vacuum system are not, but if you do not, this may be of some help to you...and there cheap, like 15.00

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zSbu8RSOWY[/ame]


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## ibglowin (Dec 16, 2013)

I had one of those and it leaked pretty much nonstop. Ended up sending it back for a full refund. YMMV as the say.


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## WI_Wino (Dec 16, 2013)

I think I posted this link recently but this is the technique I use now for bottling both beer and wine. I had always some problems trying to manage the autosiphon, hose, bottling wand, and the bottles. Now I can sit down and bottle w/o having to hang on to 3 different things. The key for me was to get the bottling wand with the spring loaded tip, not the one that relies on gravity to close it off.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/


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## vernsgal (Dec 16, 2013)

I don't mind bottling day as much as capping and labeling. My husband usually helps by doing the corking for me, especially if I have more than 12 gal at a time to do. That would probably change if I had as much to bottle as you and some others here do though Rocky.


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## jamesngalveston (Dec 16, 2013)

ibglowin, i have one and it doesnt leak...funny how one product can differ from the other. I had a sawzall that lasted for 2 years...i bought another of the same, and it did n0t last one week....same dang saw.


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## ibglowin (Dec 16, 2013)

I traded in the Ferrari Bottle Filler for the 2X more expensive Buon Vino Filler. Leaked almost as bad. So much that you had to bottle with your wines in a secondary container as by the time you had finished you had about half a bottle in the bucket. Not to mention you had a sore back from kneeling/squatting up and down from the floor for an hour or so.......


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## BernardSmith (Dec 16, 2013)

*Is there a Zen of bottling?*



WI_Wino said:


> I think I posted this link recently but this is the technique I use now for bottling both beer and wine. I had always some problems trying to manage the autosiphon, hose, bottling wand, and the bottles. Now I can sit down and bottle w/o having to hang on to 3 different things. The key for me was to get the bottling wand with the spring loaded tip, not the one that relies on gravity to close it off.
> 
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/



That dip tube idea is brilliant! 
But I think Rocky is nevertheless making a really important point. With everything anyone does there is the creative and pleasant side and then there is something we might think of as a chore. The chore needs to be done if the creative part is to be done. Working with the must, the yeast, tweaking the ingredients to create the right balance between sweetness, acidity and flavor, clearing and fining are all (for Rocky) parts of the creative process. Bottling is drudge work. 
Now, some of you have found ways to insert play into the drudgery - inviting others over, making it a bottling party and so on, but that itself does not change the nature of the beast. It simply puts the drudgery into a more pleasant context. 
It strikes me that we need to look for the Zen of bottling, in the same way that it is possible (and I speak from experience) to find the Zen of dish washing. I enjoy washing dishes. I don't view it as a chore or as drudge work. I recast the activity as time to stop what I am doing, stop thinking, and take pleasure in the moment. I won't use a dish washer and I work hard to beat my wife to dirty dishes and pots because for me washing dishes is a kind of meditation. 
So what I would say to Rocky is YES, Bottling CAN be a chore. It CAN be drudge work compared to the other activities that surround wine making and YES, there can be ways to bury the drudge work in the company of others... but I wonder if you can work to recast bottling as a time to simply sit (comfortably) with your wine and the bottles and with gravity or the physics of a vacuum and the motion of your hands and the changing focus of your eyes as you watch each bottle fill and become more aware of how you move the filling wand from one full bottle to the next empty one...so the journey of bottling then fills your attention rather than the destination of 25 or 30 or more, filled bottles


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## Kraffty (Dec 16, 2013)

Great concept Bernard but what if you're bottling a cabernet and not a Zin?

Jokes aside, I kind of liken it to weeding the garden, it's simple mindless work that you can just unwind and relax while doing. A little music and a glass of what-ever you're bottling help too.
Mike


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## jamesngalveston (Dec 16, 2013)

I have found the Zen of dishwashing: her name is carmen, she comes twice a week...I throw stuff in it, she moves everythng to where it is suppose to be an runs it, next time she is here she unloads it and puts all away..

Perfect dish washing.


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## BernardSmith (Dec 16, 2013)

Kraffty said:


> Great concept Bernard but what if you're bottling a cabernet and not a Zin?
> 
> Jokes aside, I kind of liken it to weeding the garden, it's simple mindless work that you can just unwind and relax while doing. A little music and a glass of what-ever you're bottling help too.
> Mike


 
Ah, but mindfulness is not the same as mindlessness. The idea is to fill you mind with the activity not to empty it.


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## Rocky (Dec 16, 2013)

Just an update. Thanks to some of the excellent input I got on this thread, I have done the following. Firstly, I have selected the wood for my bottling fixture. Believe it or not, it will be cherry. I have some pieces left over from a project, so why not. Secondly, today I bottled 10 gallons of Pinot Grigio partially using an idea I got here from WI Wino. I had a bottling wand so I attached it to the end of my auto siphon, set my source carboy on a 27" high bench, sat on a chair and bottled on the floor (the clean bottles were in a case) and then corked. Whole thing took about an hour and while not a monumental improvement over what I had been doing, it was a lot easier and my thumb was not cramped from operating the pinch cock. Little steps but still a significant improvement. I did not hate it and I found my use of "technical terms" that I usually utter was minimized.


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## ibglowin (Dec 16, 2013)

If you need any measurements PM me.


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## RCGoodin (Dec 17, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Just an update. Thanks to some of the excellent input I got on this thread, I have done the following. Firstly, I have selected the wood for my bottling fixture. Believe it or not, it will be cherry. I have some pieces left over from a project, so why not. Secondly, today I bottled 10 gallons of Pinot Grigio partially using an idea I got here from WI Wino. I had a bottling wand so I attached it to the end of my auto siphon, set my source carboy on a 27" high bench, sat on a chair and bottled on the floor (the clean bottles were in a case) and then corked. Whole thing took about an hour and while not a monumental improvement over what I had been doing, it was a lot easier and my thumb was not cramped from operating the pinch cock. Little steps but still a significant improvement. I did not hate it and I found my use of "technical terms" that I usually utter was minimized.




Now, that's the spirit........I love the power of positive thought.

Happy Holidays to you and your family.....


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## dralarms (Dec 18, 2013)

Rocky,

Is it a problem with bottles turning over? If so I could suggest a solution. Go to a local grocery store and ask the produce man for one of the black plastic produce crates. They are a foldable crate that will hold 33 to 35 clean bottles, ready for filling with the allinone.


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## Fabiola (Dec 18, 2013)

I like bottling, it gives me a sense of accomplishment... and I can drink it


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## BrownCow (Dec 20, 2013)

ou8amaus said:


> Not sure if the stores are set up the same way in the states, but my LHBS also functions as a u-brew site (ie they charge a flat rate to ferment kits for you and you show up only on bottling day). They have large washing/sanitizing machines that can process 30 bottle in about 5-10 minutes. They charge $2.00 per load to wash/sanitize. I go on my lunch and run them through, and then I am ready to bottle using my AIOP that evening. This needless to say has significantly decreased my bottling time...



In Alberta we can make wine and beer at home.


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## ou8amaus (Dec 21, 2013)

BrownCow said:


> In Alberta we can make wine and beer at home.



Pretty sure that applies to all of Canada and most of the US (except dry counties?)


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## dangerdave (Dec 21, 2013)

The door says "Danger's Lab - KEEP OUT". Bottling time is _my_ time. I've always been very much the "lone wolf" type, just my nature. Those who want wine know better than to disturb the wine master! 

My hate lies with cleaning and delabelling bottles. If only wine making didn't involve so much blasted CLEANING! Carboys, tubes, utensiles, measure cups and spoons, stirrers, buckets, pichers, bottles, bottles, bottles!!!

AAAAAAARGGHHHHH! 

I love making and bottling.


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