# Specific Gravity of juice off the scale!



## kevinlfifer (Apr 26, 2019)

I picked up a drum of Rapel Casa Rosa red blend from Luva Bella Wed. Siphoned off 30 gal to 2 open lid drums. I noticed the juice was exceptionally thick and thought " WOW this stuff is going to be a rich big wine." I pitched r 212 in one and 71b 1122 in the other. Then I decided to measure the SG. The hydrometer floated to the "C" in Carlson, well past the highest scale of 1.160. Easily 1.170+.

I called Charles at Luva Bella. He said it could have been a first pressing with high brix. I don't buy that. I believe that their process involves adding sugar and they added way to much to this run. 

He had me experiment with adding water. It took adding 33% water (8 oz H2O to 24 oz juice) to get to 1.13. Pix below is after dilution!

My fear is I'll end up with a watery, high ABV crappy wine. Any thoughts.


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## salcoco (Apr 26, 2019)

if it was as thick as you mentioned in might not be as watery as you have guessed. 
chances are your yeast will not start in that high a sugar environment. 

the other is you can make a port by step feeding the yeast if it can get started.


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## kevinlfifer (Apr 26, 2019)

I really don't want 87 gallons of port. I have already diluted down to a SG of 1.130. That took the 60 gallons to 87 gallons.
Fermentation is well under way. I need to check pH, That much water could have thrown that off.


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## Johnd (Apr 26, 2019)

kevinlfifer said:


> I really don't want 87 gallons of port. I have already diluted down to a SG of 1.130. That took the 60 gallons to 87 gallons.
> Fermentation is well under way. I need to check pH, That much water could have thrown that off.



1.13 SG is gonna get you something near 18% if your yeast makes the journey, and if not, you’ll have RS to deal with.


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## salcoco (Apr 27, 2019)

one solution ferment a lower alcohol wine and then blend.


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## kevinlfifer (Apr 28, 2019)

I added more water to get to 1.105 +/- That gives me 90 gal of "juice". It's fermenting at a feverish pace. It looks like it's boiling, from 1.105 to 1.06 in 24hrs. I still have concerns that it will be a rather thin finished wine.

Does anybody know the production process for bucket juice?


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## Keith5 (Apr 30, 2019)

Did you check SG with 2 hydro Meters? Maybe 1 is off or is there a massive temperature impact on hydrometer reading? Was hydrometer stored in hot location and it misread the SG?if not, that’s a serious quality control issue for the supplier


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## kevinlfifer (May 1, 2019)

My Hydrometer is fine, 1.000 in 66 F H2O. Luva Bella called and explained that there was indeed a batch error. They are dropping off a new drum of juice tomorrow. Now I am trying to figure out what I can do with 90 gal of watery "wine".

I ordered 4
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Winemaking-Kit-100-Cabernet-Sauvignon-Concentrate/113676989838?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I know it will some more sugar, but it should turn 20 gal of the water I added into something more like wine. I

I toast my own oak, so I can oak the devil into it. I might add 5 lb raisins to each drum of 38 gal as well. I may order some tannin powder and acid too.

Any suggestions from this point of my mess?


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## stickman (May 1, 2019)

Why add sugar back to something you diluted to drop the sg?


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## NorCal (May 2, 2019)

I’m trying to understand the problem. If they over concentrated the juice by taking more water out that they should have and you added that water back to get you to 25 brix (sweet spot), why would the wine be watery?

If they don’t simply concentrate the grape juice and rather add additional sugar and then concentrate the juice, then I could see how you would get the abv, but not the flavor. If it is a bucket that they are adding sugar to, I wouldn’t be buying it, even if it wasn’t over done.


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## kevinlfifer (May 2, 2019)

Here is a timeline of this mess.
Luva received their bulk product.
They run some measurements on 1000-3000 gal batches.
They add acid, sugar, water whatever is needed to get the juice to the desired parameters.

In this case someone either miscalculated or misread the amount of sugar to add.
Adding water simply dilutes the grape product while reducing the sg caused by the excess sugar.

The product I've added is a concentrate designed to make 5 gal of wine (Cab Sav) from 1/2 gal of concentrate. It does have some sugar in the concentrate, but not enough to make a dry wine. 4-5 lbs sugar needs to be added to produce the 5 gal of wine. I AM NOT ADDING SUGAR. My logic is the sugar (and then some) and the water is already in the fermenting drum. The concentrate will add wine/grape components to that water added for dilution. 

In summary, I am adding a low brix juice to a very high brix juice in an effort to have an acceptable juice.

Tasted the juice after adding the concentrate. Much less watery, needs some tannin. I'll do that by adding oak sticks at a 10 in/sq per bottle. That's equivalent to an oak barrel in surface area. A LOT OF OAK!

Norcal
If they had done that I would have 30 gal of free good juice. I have the above instead. 
By the way, love the Shelby. I had a 65 Mustang High Performance (solid lifters 4/11 gear box 11.4 Qtr Mi) Wish I'd have been smarter @ 18.


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## kevinlfifer (May 2, 2019)

Here's an irony. Luva dropped off the replacement drum this morning. Had to add 16 lb sugar to get to 1.105 sg.


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## Stressbaby (May 10, 2019)

Are you saying if you had waited you could have just mixed them together?


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## askins3097 (May 18, 2019)

You shouldn’t be having to add any sugar or water to pressed juice. I’d make the best out of it, which it appears you’re trying to do, then never buy it from that vendor/company again.


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## kevinlfifer (May 27, 2019)

I'll give them this one. They drove 2:45 hrs. to replace the drum. I always need to add some sugar to red juices to get to my desired ABV, regardless of supplier. The replacement batch is in secondary and still finishing. Any vendor can error, how they fix it is the thing.

The fall batch from them, 60 gal Amarone with 4 lugs Merlot grapes is going to be stellar. I have bottled all but 15 gal of that.


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## kevinlfifer (Feb 5, 2020)

9 months later I let the wine set on the lees for a long time. I think maybe a mistake for the r-212 batch (40 gal). Kind of a funky taste. Barnyard? Any thoughts? My fear is SO3, not enough nutrient for the r-212 during fermentation.

I have bottled much of the 71b-1122 batch. (45 gal) Turned out very nice.

I backed off of the oak and used 2 sticks in each 4 gal carboy (12 x 3/4 x 3/4 *2 = 72 sq in) or 3.6 in/sq per bottle.

The replacement drum (60 gal) has the same off taste as the r-212 batch even though less time on the lees. Could be the varietal make-up.

Any way I have 145 gal to bottle, That's a lot of labels to peel.

I am thinking of bulk aging in glass carboys (40 gal) with a solid cork and a wax seal, no airlock. Any real objections to that?


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