# First Try at Blueberry



## Dend78 (Dec 27, 2012)

I went light on the fruit because well its stupid expensive right now I will back sweeten to bring fruit flavor forward.

6.5lbs frozen blueberries
15lbs clover honey (cheapest I could find)
water up to 5.5 - 6 gal
heated the honey up to make it a little smoother in the water placed frozen blueberries in a strainer bag. Im out of pectic enzyme i will grab some tomorrow.
I will let this sit overnight then add in WYeast 4632 Dry Mead yeast.

thoughts or comments?


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## Duster (Dec 27, 2012)

6.5 lbs of fruit is really on the light side. Blueberry is a strong flavor but for 6 gallon you should use about 30 lbs. If it wouldn't make your sg too high I would recommend some grape concentrate.


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## Dend78 (Dec 27, 2012)

yeah i knew it was super light more or less it will be for color in the beginning I will pick up flavoring when i back sweeten. I will check SG in the morning and add grape to it i wont do to much to it i dont believe.

what should i go with for yeast nutrient and energizer? I just realized i didnt add any in. just follow the labels or is it slightly different for mead?


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## Duster (Dec 27, 2012)

some of the others with more mead experience than I should probably chime in for that one but If it was me I would add 1/2 t of energizer and 1 t of nutrient per gallon. I have also heard a second dose of nutrient added to the secondary is good practice for meads.


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## Runningwolf (Dec 27, 2012)

Duster that is a pound of fruit per bottle. That is exactly what I use.


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## Dend78 (Dec 27, 2012)

Runningwolf said:


> Duster that is a pound of fruit per bottle. That is exactly what I use.



1 pound per bottle wow well its 2.49 per 12oz pack of berries and well i dont wanna spend 75.00 on fruit alone santa was good to me but not that good hahah

i will go with the label for now the rest will fall out if not needed/used, i found 2 cans of concentrate 1 grape one blueberry pomegranate so i tossed those in sg is sitting around 1.110 which is plenty high for me i will check it again before i pitch the yeast


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## Duster (Dec 27, 2012)

i'm thinking like Dan,
I don't know if I should be proud or just poor another glass, Heck why not both
Either way Dend78 still has a question about nutrient and energizer that I'm not 100% on my answer.


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## fatbloke (Dec 28, 2012)

When working out how much fruit I use in a batch, I generally just look up a normal wine recipe for the available fruit and use the same.

A lot of the berry or currant wine recipes suggest IRO 3lb per gallon or thereabouts, so for a 5 gallon batch about the 15lb mark.

Now while the limited fruit will give you a light fruit taste and colour (in theory), it reads like you've got the fruit in primary. Which often has a bleaching effect on colour pigments reducing it during the course of the ferment, as well as a lot of the aromatics being blown out the airlock (unless you happen to use a yeast that is good for retaining colour and flavour from "reds", like RC-212, BDX or something like that.

So, as you mention the price of the fruit at the moment, you could always let the batch finish, then rack and stabilise (sulphites/campden tablets and sorbate), then while that's settling down, purchase the same amount of fruit as you've already used, and get it in the freezer for a couple of day, then either defrost it before adding it too secondary or just put it in frozen - if still frozen give it a couple of hours to thaw, then add some pectic enzyme, which not only helps with any possible pectin hazes, but also seems to help with colour and flavour extraction.

Then just leave it for a month or two to steep. You should end up with something a lot darker than it was when it came out of primary and also with a more fruity taste to it.

Just remember, fermented fruit flavour is completely different from the original taste, and that more often than not, the flavour that we're aiming to impart into the brew is the original flavour of the fruit - hence I prefer to add most of my fruit into secondary.......


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## dangerdave (Dec 28, 2012)

Very interesting, Bloke. Now, when you are saying adding fruit to the _secondary_, do you mean while the wine is still fermenting (and has been transfered to a secondary fermenter such as a carboy---usually around SG 1.010), or should this be done _after_ the wine has gone dry?

I'm interested in trying this.


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## fatbloke (Dec 28, 2012)

dangerdave said:


> Very interesting, Bloke. Now, when you are saying adding fruit to the _secondary_, do you mean while the wine is still fermenting (and has been transfered to a secondary fermenter such as a carboy---usually around SG 1.010), or should this be done _after_ the wine has gone dry?
> 
> I'm interested in trying this.


Either. The main part of the colour loss of the fruit occurs earlier but if you put the fruit in at 1.010 some, possibly all the fruit sugars could still ferment dry, that's yeast and strength dependant. 

I usually ferment dry, then stabilise, then steep the fruit which I will have previously frozen then thawed. That way you get all the fruit sugars flavour and colour with enhances fruitiness and even back sweetens slightly.


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## RegionRat (Dec 28, 2012)

*Extract?*

I have been following the thread. I have yet to make a mead and it is on my bucket list.

Have you considered back sweetening with a blueberry extract? I didnt go crazy Google searching but a quick search came up with lots of option for the budget minded. 

If you do decide to go this route be careful not to order 'blueberry flavor' get one that says 'blueberry extract' 

My 2¢

RR


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## dangerdave (Dec 28, 2012)

fatbloke said:


> Either. The main part of the colour loss of the fruit occurs earlier but if you put the fruit in at 1.010 some, possibly all the fruit sugars could still ferment dry, that's yeast and strength dependant.
> 
> I usually ferment dry, then stabilise, then steep the fruit which I will have previously frozen then thawed. That way you get all the fruit sugars flavour and colour with enhances fruitiness and even back sweetens slightly.


 
That's what I thought. Thank you, my man!


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## Dend78 (Dec 31, 2012)

i will possibly go the steep route that sounds like a pretty good idea, my initial thought was to try out the artificial flavoring, so i must ask why do you disagree with that RegionRat? I have no experience with it but I already bought a bottle.

I must say my favorite batch to sit around and smell thus far, I have this stuff sitting on the kitchen counter and wow its freaking phenomenal.

anyway I pitched the yeast and had no action for the first 12hrs not totally sure when it took off but I left for 2 days and came back and shes on a roll now. went from 1.106 down to 1.065 today. color is looking good and it seems to be fermenting like it should.


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## ColdClimateWines (Dec 31, 2012)

Dend 78, 
I am new to this site. Just picked up the threads, but i am confused. What is your end game. A blueberry wine sweetened by honey or a blueberry Melomel? Blueberries are fairly acidic and in my past experience can tolerate more dilution than almost another fruit except maybe cranberries.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 1, 2013)

Dend78, a more cost effective route for you might be using a Vintners Harvest type blueberry wine base, the 96 oz can is around 25-30 dollars depending on where you can get it. 
I really think that you will be shortchanging your wine/melomel be using only 1 lb per gallon and back sweetening with blueberry.


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## dangerdave (Jan 1, 2013)

I don't know, Tom. Isn't that what we use in the Red Dragon Melomel...one pound of fruit per gallon? I'm interested in the outcome, particularly if he is steeping the fruit.

Drend, I have used natural extracts in a few of my fines with excellent results. If you go that route, start by adding a small amount and work up. In my peach mango, I ended up adding an ounce of both extracts (peach & mango) to a six gallon batch. It was very good, but I would have liked to have tried it first with maybe half that much.

Good lcuk, my friend!


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## RegionRat (Jan 1, 2013)

Dend78 said:


> i will possibly go the steep route that sounds like a pretty good idea, my initial thought was to try out the artificial flavoring, so i must ask why do you disagree with that RegionRat? I have no experience with it but I already bought a bottle.
> 
> I must say my favorite batch to sit around and smell thus far, I have this stuff sitting on the kitchen counter and wow its freaking phenomenal.
> 
> anyway I pitched the yeast and had no action for the first 12hrs not totally sure when it took off but I left for 2 days and came back and shes on a roll now. went from 1.106 down to 1.065 today. color is looking good and it seems to be fermenting like it should.




The only thing I would disagree with is the use of _Artificial Flavoring_. The use of fresh/frozen fruit is always my first choice. I have been using extracts from naturesflavors.com in some of the Hard Ciders I have made when I back sweeten to boost the flavor. They are pricey on the $ per ounce side but you only need to use a small amount.

RR


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 1, 2013)

Dave,
You are correct, I did use 6 lbs for 6 gallons, and it turned out fantastic!!
Lately I've been using 2-2.5 per gallon with the Red Dragon.
Thanks for reminding me!

Tom


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## mixmasterroz (Jan 1, 2013)

Im green so im Not sure if im under the right forum. I used a 6 gallon carbouy as my primary fermenter for my first batch of mead. Is this going to be ok? Its been 2 weeks and it still looks to be very active.


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## Dend78 (Jan 2, 2013)

ColdClimateWines said:


> Dend 78,
> I am new to this site. Just picked up the threads, but i am confused. What is your end game. A blueberry wine sweetened by honey or a blueberry Melomel? Blueberries are fairly acidic and in my past experience can tolerate more dilution than almost another fruit except maybe cranberries.




*it is a Melomel of sorts just im shorting the initial fruit in primary, then I plan to steep in fruit in the end and since I have it now I plan to experiment with some artificial flavoring *



Pumpkinman said:


> Dend78, a more cost effective route for you might be using a Vintners Harvest type blueberry wine base, the 96 oz can is around 25-30 dollars depending on where you can get it.
> I really think that you will be shortchanging your wine/melomel be using only 1 lb per gallon and back sweetening with blueberry.



*I thought about this as well and it may be on my next try at blueberry that I go this route, it all depends on how this turns out. I may find the cheap way yet *




dangerdave said:


> I don't know, Tom. Isn't that what we use in the Red Dragon Melomel...one pound of fruit per gallon? I'm interested in the outcome, particularly if he is steeping the fruit.
> 
> Drend, I have used natural extracts in a few of my fines with excellent results. If you go that route, start by adding a small amount and work up. In my peach mango, I ended up adding an ounce of both extracts (peach & mango) to a six gallon batch. It was very good, but I would have liked to have tried it first with maybe half that much.
> 
> Good lcuk, my friend!



*who's Drend?  just playin, im hoping this turns out even half as good as it smells. I just wanna climb inside the bucket and live there haha I will give this steeping thing a shot and see what i get. I have the artificial flavoring as well which seems like i will start testing it out to see how it works. I have several gallons of my quad berry that I can start playing with (insert mad scientist smiley here) and i must say its good to be the test subject *



mixmasterroz said:


> Im green so im Not sure if im under the right forum. I used a 6 gallon carbouy as my primary fermenter for my first batch of mead. Is this going to be ok? Its been 2 weeks and it still looks to be very active.



*welcome mix, you posted in my thread but thats ok I would say you are good for a bit, did you use a hydrometer? if so what is your Gravity or Brix sitting at? you may need to rack this soon so as not to leave it on gross lees to long.*



 

didnt get to check this morning but its chugging right along it wont be long now till i rack it and let it sit for a while. more information to come tonight when i can check it.


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## Dend78 (Jan 3, 2013)

Okay for the update to the above update I checked SG last night 1.014 so I racked it and shes sitting pretty under airlock. I gave it a taste and its not to bad at all, the young alcohol is very forward but you get that berry hint in there its just masked hardcore. I very excited to see how this turns out


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## dangerdave (Jan 3, 2013)

Sorry about the 'r', Dend. I have big hands, and sometimes the keys get poked accidentally. You can call me Drave if you like. 

Now, I must admit, I have never used Mead Yeast. How is it different from wine yeast? I made my Red Dragon Melomel using EC-1118 and it came out wonderful. How do you think it might have been different using mead yeast?


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## Dend78 (Jan 4, 2013)

I have no ideas about the yeast being different aside from this was a smack pack liquid yeast, which is just awesome to start with, but after that nothing special seemed to happen. I chose to go mead yeast route cause well they must know something if they have a special strain they sell with the mead kits from the local fermentation shop. only thing i would do different would be use the sweet mead instead of the dry the sweet leaves about 3% sugar and is good to about 11% ABV. I didnt do a lot of homework on this yeast just went with it, making mead use mead yeast haha.

come to think of it I have used 5 different yeast's since starting this out last July. Bread yeast maybe red star cant remember, EC-1118, the mead yeast, another Red Star for my pear wine and WL-720 or 700 whichever is the flor yeast. I have noticed nothing different with any of them, they all seem to ferment fast aside from the flor yeast didnt take but that batch was stalled out with EC-1118 so i dont know what happened there. All in all ive noticed nothing different aside from the package, i will start testing it all out some day to see what differences i find with similar batches.


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## Dend78 (Jan 8, 2013)

took a peak at it last night, its looking like fermentation has stopped I watched for a while and saw nothing in the airlock but im going to give it another week before racking off the lees then stabilizing and adding in another 6lbs of blueberries and pectic enzyme.

here is a question about adding in the fruit do you put it in a strainer bag or let it float free? Im just thinking of how much fun its going to be to get the berries down inside the carboy in a bag, gonna be like a ship in a bottle haha. Im also thinking of how the third racking will be a mess with free floating fruit though as well.


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## fatbloke (Jan 8, 2013)

If the fermenter is a bucket a straining bag just makes removal easier. If its a carboy, just freeze the fruit and thaw it before adding, then just add the fruit and any juice that comes out.

I use a standard funnel with most of the spout cut off - which I used for my sloe gin, the sloes being a similar size to blue berries.

Then I'd just leave it be, under airlock until the fruit has dropped......


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## Dend78 (Jan 9, 2013)

that's what I thought but wanted to make sure thanks for the update. I took my big carboy of this out and i have almost 1" sediment dropping out and I watched for a long time last night with no action in the airlock. I think while im messing with my wines tonight I may just go ahead and stabilize it. Then when I get my primary empty I will transfer to that and clean out my carboy and transfer back then add fruit. color is perfect deep purple color and smells awesome still im really ready to see how this turns out.

as for back sweetening a mead I may have asked but im gonna ask again, would one use honey or sugar?


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 9, 2013)

Dend78, I use Honey, if you've made a fruit wine using sugar, you will be very surprised to taste the difference between a traditional fruit wine and a Melomel, the honey really changes things up for the better in my opinion.
On a separate note, I watched a video interviewing a mead/Melomel maker that has won numerous medals, he was using fruit and Vinters Harvest Fruit Base (not the puree) to enhance the flavor of the Melomel, other than that, his recipe and the recipe that I've been following, are very similar.


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## Dend78 (Jan 9, 2013)

i may give that Vintners Harvest stuff a shot on my next batch, actually i was just looking at it on my local ferm shops site. I may have to try an apricot melomel next depending on how this turns out.

thanks for the heads up on the honey to back sweeten with, i figured it would be a good idea to go with but mead, and honey in general are new steps for me.


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## Dend78 (Jan 9, 2013)

okay checked it out this evening

0.095 SG
taste is super bitter right now, it completely changed from the time i put it in the carboy, i added k-meta and sorbate tonight. I will probably rack it in a week and add in the fruit


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## Dend78 (Jan 13, 2013)

did a second racking today, tossed in blueberries and pectic enzyme


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## fatbloke (Jan 14, 2013)

Sounds like its getting on well.

Oh and I routinely back sweeten with honey too, but I usually do that once its finished and before clearing as honey, can on occasion, cause a protein haze in a finished and cleared batch. Its a protein thing, but I sweeten then as I'm lazy and then I only clear it the once......


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## Dend78 (Jan 14, 2013)

I was thinking about giving the pectic a bit of time to work in the fruit like possibly tomorrow start backsweetening, i dont know what to expect sugar wise out of the fruit.


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## GreginND (Jan 14, 2013)

Don't be in a hurry to backsweeten. You need to let it clear for some time to get rid of as much yeast as possible. Otherwise the sorbate cannot prevent refermentation.

I usually age for at least 3 months if not longer (up to a year) before I sweeten. I like to add sorbate and sweeten about 1 month before I plan to bottle so I can make sure the wine is stable.


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## Dend78 (Jan 14, 2013)

noted, im not in a big hurry for this so that may be a good idea


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## Dend78 (Jan 16, 2013)

hmm fruit and wine are pushing out the top i have a mini volcano going here note to self when adding fruit in secondary leave a lil extra head space


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## Dend78 (Jan 21, 2013)

well i think my blueberries are fermenting , dry mead yeast good to 18%abv sweet mead yeast good for 11%abv note to self go for sweet mead yeast or wait longer before adding in fruit, strange thing how does my airlock keep filling up with wine? ive drank quite a bit off the top with a straw 4 times now


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## Deezil (Jan 21, 2013)

Dend78 said:


> strange thing how does my airlock keep filling up with wine? ive drank quite a bit off the top with a straw 4 times now



I think i've been having this same issue in my Apple- Pear wine lately, except in my case i think its MLF making CO2... although the same concept, i believe its CO2 causing the volume to expand because its within the solution & not being expelled... if that makes sense

I think i'll see the level of my wine drop, when i hook up the vacuum pump and degas it


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## Dend78 (Jan 22, 2013)

i need to look into getting one of those one of these days, it is strange though, like empty neck and down into the carboy a bit back in a few days and boom full airlock. snatched quite the buzz off the top the other morning, no food, no water just a good drink of blueberry mead wow 

 1/23/2013

Gonna have to break out the straw again tonight! holy, ive seriously drank a glass out of this stuff already and going in for more, not including what hit the floor, its alive! Alive! ALIVE!!!!!!


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## saramc (Jan 24, 2013)

Dend78 said:


> Gonna have to break out the straw again tonight! holy, ive seriously drank a glass out of this stuff already and going in for more, not including what hit the floor, its alive! Alive! ALIVE!!!!!!



Have you considered setting up a blow off tube until things calm down?


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## Dend78 (Jan 24, 2013)

ive thought about that but i really dont mind checking it daily and using the straw, it was just a bit unexpected to have it fire up again, so after it dies down completely im gonna rack it off the fruit, sulfite and sorbate it again then let it sit for a month then try with the blueberries again.


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## Dend78 (Jan 28, 2013)

okay she has finally stopped im gonna give it a few weeks and add more k-meta and sorbate


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## Dend78 (Jan 30, 2013)

Dend78 said:


> okay she has finally stopped im gonna give it a few weeks and add more k-meta and sorbate



guess i lied, looked at it last night and it seems to be going strong again, this is very strange, i would assume this is fermentation and not the wine degassing how would i know the difference?

I will do my best to explain what im seeing, slight foam at the top, in between the berries I see trails of bubbles climbing up the sides of the carboy in steady line, what i dont see is a lot of airlock action which confuses me because I was expecting more with the steady streams of bubbles


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## fatbloke (Jan 30, 2013)

Hydrometer readings......

Sample with a turkey baster, into test jar etc. Just sanitise the kit first and it should be fine to put the sample back in after testing......


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## Dend78 (Jan 30, 2013)

well i racked it at 1.014 27 days ago, it was at 0.095 21 days ago, but i have nothing since, i will get it tested tonight though


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## fatbloke (Jan 31, 2013)

Just had a look at your front end post....

If you did use the dry mead yeast, I understood that its tolerant to 18% ABV. So given the honey ratio etc I'd have thought its likely still fermenting.


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## Dend78 (Jan 31, 2013)

okay, i checked it out last night i believe it was degassing, SG was at .098ish, i couldn't get my hydrometer to stay off the side of my test tube no matter how much turning it still wanted to lean. while i had it open i got out "the spoon" and gave it a good stir, gas was escaping like crazy and it settled in nicely. I took a look this morning and no bubbles so im thinking it was just degassing but i could be wrong. I also took the liberty of having a taste and its not bad at all. alcohol is very strong and forward but blueberry is there. i will leave this alone for a while then check it again in a couple of weeks and see where its sitting at and rerack it.


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## Dend78 (Feb 11, 2013)

well shes been sitting quietly for almost 2 weeks now i believe tonight will be the rerack night. 

one question i have should i add k-meta and sorbate again after racking or will the initial shot I gave it do the trick? reason I ask I would like to start back sweetening so im not reracking five million times.


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## btom2004 (Feb 13, 2013)

Just read this thread. I bet the difference in this liquid mead yeast over others, is that it takes a licking and keeps on thicking. Since you had had issues of it refermenting. I would add the additional K-meta and sorbate after racking and then backsweeten.


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## Dend78 (Feb 13, 2013)

kinda what i was thinkin, plus this stuff is good up to 18% which is a lot hotter than i was lookin for, not sayin i wont drink it just not what i was aiming for here 

tonight i will probably transfer it and give it another shot of k-meta and sorbate and let it sit for a while then back sweeten.


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## rhythmsteve (Feb 13, 2013)

I would put the extra fruit in prior to back-sweetening, i tried this myself and it came out too watery tasting at the end eventhough i did back-sweeten with more fresh fruit, but it wasn't the same


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## Dend78 (Feb 13, 2013)

this was my thought, transfer and add k-meat & sorbate now, wait a week to 10 days, then add in honey up to roughly 1.010ish then add in more fruit. 

you would add in the fruit again and let it sit then backsweeten?



Okay last night i did transfer, i kicked in more sorbate and k-meta, im going to let it sit for a week to 10 days so hopefully i can add fruit again and back sweeten. took a taste its still a dry red so it for sure needs some sweetening to be brought back to life.


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## fatbloke (Feb 14, 2013)

Dend78 said:


> this was my thought, transfer and add k-meat & sorbate now, wait a week to 10 days, then add in honey up to roughly 1.010ish then add in more fruit.
> 
> you would add in the fruit again and let it sit then backsweeten?


Sounds like a plan......

If you do the extra fruit first its a bit more controllable as you're increasing the fruit flavours first, then taste so you know whether you want or need to back sweeten......


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## Dend78 (Feb 14, 2013)

as it sits right now it has a beer taste to it, you get a hint of fruit but the alcohol and beer like flavor kills it right away


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## Dend78 (Feb 22, 2013)

kicked in what i had left as far as blueberries goes, someone used most of what I had left leaving me with 12oz so i tossed those in and i also tossed in a bottle of blueberry nectar. I will let this sit and age for a while another month or so and then rerack and start adding honey. one thing to note about this batch it was already almost clear, color is good im really excited about this one.


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## Dend78 (Feb 27, 2013)

i did give this a taste last night to see where its at color is good, its clearing really nicely, berry flavor is there but i want more, gonna give this more time to mellow out then i plan to make a nice f-pak of honey and more of that blueberry nectar.

aside from taste though its got mouth feel like nothing else ive made very happy with that


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## saramc (Mar 6, 2013)

Dend78 said:


> i did give this a taste last night to see where its at color is good, its clearing really nicely, berry flavor is there but i want more, gonna give this more time to mellow out then i plan to make a nice f-pak of honey and more of that blueberry nectar.
> 
> aside from taste though its got mouth feel like nothing else ive made very happy with that



You may find that backsweetening brings the berries back, you may not need the blueberry nectar (where did you find blueberry nectar?); and do not forget that adding honey for backsweetening typically causes the wine to cloud up, so you will need to allow more time for that to clear up.


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## Dend78 (Mar 6, 2013)

saramc said:


> You may find that backsweetening brings the berries back, you may not need the blueberry nectar (where did you find blueberry nectar?); and do not forget that adding honey for backsweetening typically causes the wine to cloud up, so you will need to allow more time for that to clear up.



the nectar i found is in the organic section at my local kroger, its about 4.00 for 32oz but it tastes amazing. if i could pull some of that flavor into blueberry wine i wouldn't make any different wines ever just blueberry 

the blueberry flavor is for sure there just the bitterness and alcohol are masking it mainly hence give it more time  oh well once i pull the blueberries back out i will taste it again and start back sweetening from there with the honey and then like you said wait some more for it to clear  again


 3/23/2014

I kicked in some of that blueberry artificial flavoring i bought the other day, i have a 1 gal batch that I am working with first then if i find a sweet spot I will do the same to the big batch.


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## Dend78 (Jul 3, 2013)

well i must say this has been a fun batch to make i am very pleased with the outcome i plan to bottle this tonight and let it finish out in the bottle a bit longer but it tastes great now time will only make it better as there is still a bit of alcohol bite.


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## TommBomb (Jul 3, 2013)

Awesome notes dend. Just like the pear wine buddy. Very helpful. I lovd the idea of back sweetening with that fruit base.


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