# M&M Grapes??



## kendo (Jun 25, 2012)

Ok so from what im reading at M&M there wine grapes are in 18lb lugs and are $46-$50 a lug? so thats say almost $100 smackers for a reg 36lb lug? or am i missing something?.it cost me $340.00 bucks per 10 lugs of 36 lbs of grapes of lodi zin..so that would be $1000.00 for 10 36lb lugs from M&M?


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## blazerpb (Jun 25, 2012)

I think your missing something. M&M usually sells chilean grapes in 18 pound lugs and California Lodi grapes in 36 pound lugs. http://cdn.winemakingtalk.com/forum/images/smilies/Happy 4th.jpg


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## Wade E (Jun 25, 2012)

Yeah, you got the wrong info on pricing somewhere. Their pricing is and has always been pretty darn good there and their grapes are damn good. A lot of my friends wont go anywhere else and they are the biggedt grape snobs out there. I believe it is appr. $32 per Cali lug and appr $18 per Chili's lugs. That will obviously vary depending on which varietal you get and if you choose the premium over the standard grapes.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jun 25, 2012)

kendo said:


> Ok so from what im reading at M&M there wine grapes are in 18lb lugs and are $46-$50 a lug? so thats say almost $100 smackers for a reg 32lb lug? or am i missing something?.it cost me $340.00 bucks per 10 lugs of 32 lbs of grapes of lodi zin..so that would be $1000.00 for 10 32lugs from M&M?


HI Kendo
Prices always change but stay in a price point usually. This year prices are likely to be higher than last year for 2 major reasons transportation costs ( fuel prices and government regulations) and Shortages with demand being higher and last year's poor harvest depleting the bulk wine inventory. 

If you are looking at Central Valley Grapes with labels like Cry Baby from Tony Guerriero Fruit Co., Fresno, California you are at the bottom of the food chain. Expect to pay in the mid to high 20's for a 36 pound box. Getting to usually the best of Central Valley are labels such as California Special, Treasure and Teaser packed by D. Papagni Fruit Co. and Anthony Vineyards. Expect to pay this year a bit over 30 for a 36 pound box. 

You then get into the Lodi and Amador Areas where there is a marked improvement in quality. Look for Delta Packed Grapes and Elkhorn Packing in these areas. Delta Packing will also take you to Paso Robles, Clement Hills and the Sierra Nevada Foothills. Expect to pay in high 30s to low 40s per 36 pound box. 

To go up another level you get to Suisun Valley and Wooden Valley Vineyards owned and packed by Lanza. Expect to pay around 50 a box. The improvement in your wine using these grapes is such you will never make a lower level grape again if you goal is to make fine elegant wines.

After that you begin to get in the nose bleed area. In Napa Beckstoffer grapes demand prices from 140 to almost 300 dollars a box. Again before you have a heart attack, you have to understand that wines made from these grapes sell commercially beginning at 75.00 a bottle upwards of 200.00 a bottle. The amateur who is willing to spend the money is rubbing elbows with the likes of Camus and making this level wine beginning at 25.00 dollars a bottle. If you a good winemaker you owe it to yourself to make these grapes at least once. 

Then M&M has other varietals north of 50 dollars a box but under 100 dollars a box from other areas like Sonoma and Mendocino. 

This is not my Grandfather's winemaking. This is an entirely different activity and M&M is the only one providing the opportunity to take this hobby to these new levels. It is not that long ago this did not exist for Amateur Winemakers. M&M made the difference. Now it is up to you to decide your next move in the hobby. Even if you stay with Central Valley grapes 2 things are true. M&M's delivery and cold storage insures you the best condition for your grapes and M&M gives you the choice to take it to the next level. 
Malvina

BTW Due to the weight of the grapes on top of one another combined with the length of shipping times grapes from Chile are shipped in 18 pound boxes. The price per 18 pound box represents half of a 36 pound box.


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## JohnT (Jun 25, 2012)

$50 per 18 pound lug? Did I read that right? 

JEEEEESH! that's expensive. I bought mine for $26 per 18 pound lug.


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## ibglowin (Jun 25, 2012)

Does anyone have any long term data on fruit from F. Colvita & Son? Most grapes are supposed to be sourced from District 11 known as the Lodi - Woodbridge - Linden Hills district. 

I got fruit from them last year and it is turning out pretty fantastic and it was probably the worst harvest on record. 

Starting to look around for this year.


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## kendo (Jun 25, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> HI Kendo
> Prices always change but stay in a price point usually. This year prices are likely to be higher than last year for 2 major reasons transportation costs ( fuel prices and government regulations) and Shortages with demand being higher and last year's poor harvest depleting the bulk wine inventory.
> 
> If you are looking at Central Valley Grapes with labels like Cry Baby from Tony Guerriero Fruit Co., Fresno, California you are at the bottom of the food chain. Expect to pay in the mid to high 20's for a 36 pound box. Getting to usually the best of Central Valley are labels such as California Special, Treasure and Teaser packed by D. Papagni Fruit Co. and Anthony Vineyards. Expect to pay this year a bit over 30 for a 36 pound box.
> ...


 thk you for this info, im heading to M&M this year going to try some lanza grapes, i apprc your post.kendo


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jun 25, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Does anyone have any long term data on fruit from F. Colvita & Son? Most grapes are supposed to be sourced from District 11 known as the Lodi - Woodbridge - Linden Hills district.
> 
> I got fruit from them last year and it is turning out pretty fantastic and it was probably the worst harvest on record.
> 
> Starting to look around for this year.



I hope your wine turns out great but to tell you the truth I am not a fan of Colavita Grapes. While he calls them Northern Special there is nothing North about them and really nothing special either. I have made them in the past and the results are mediocre and inconsistent. For the dollar value and consistency they don't come close to Lanza's offerings. Not to mention the packing of the Lanza Grapes. You will never see a better packed Box with the grapes in perfect condition and absolutely no MOG. If I would want really good Lodi grapes I would stick with Delta Packing. Far superior in quality and variety with very clear *REAL * AVA destinations and possible Vineyard designations. You will never that that with Colivita. 
Malvina


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## ibglowin (Jun 25, 2012)

I don't have too many data points to go on but so far am very pleased with the outcome. I am already looking at options for fruit this Fall from CA. I may work with a wine club in the Denver area this time around. We have nothing close by really. Not sure who the grower is (It is not Colvita) but am told the grapes are from Lodi region as well. I am not as lucky to have the all the grape sources available to me as you guys do in the CT area with M&M. Last year I drove to Dallas to get the Colvita fruit. 1400 miles RT. Perhaps I should drive out to CA and pick up myself from Lanza.

Hmmmm...... Now there is a thought! 

Thanks again for the info.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jun 25, 2012)

Wow I forgive you for using Colivita! That is really determination and dedication. A great thought a drive to Suisun. You are very right about being lucky for years we were at the mercy of the existing grape distributors with their under ripe over cropped moldy grapes. M&M really changed this for us. I don't know if you are aware of this but M&M does have trucks that travel across country and make stops. A call to Nick Copolla at M&M might turn up an opportunity for you. Tell him Malvina told you to call 
Malvina


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## ncoppola (Jun 25, 2012)

Hello,

Here is a quick run-down of typical grape pack sizes:

Most California, and U.S. domestic come as 36lb units, few wooden box varietals still sold in 42lb units.
Chilean Grapes come as 8kg (18lb) units
Italian Grapes typically come as 24.2lb units.

That's not to say pack size will not change on the imports, at some point, but that is what is has been.

As for the question of source presented by ibglowin, please keep in mind that many grapes are packed in that general area. So, there is a potential difference between the origin of the grapes and the packing location. The idea that Delta does label their boxes by area suggests that they are willing to demonstrate good quality grapes can come from a number of growing areas, including Lodi. Of course, Central Valley is not part of their Grapes of Gold program. At the end of the day, it is a delicate balance between point of origin, vineyard management, and harvest/packing practices that brings you grapes you are pleased with.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions you might have and I'll do my best to help you.

- Nick


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## kendo (Jun 25, 2012)

Malvin, at M&M do you have to purchase a certian amount of lugs of lanza grapes? or when there in, can i just go there and pick up say 10 lugs of zin or do i have to put a deposit down on them with the M&M Grape Co? and another ?? do they supply the (beer and wine company) with grapes< i believe there in woburn massachusetts... thks for your time and help..


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jun 25, 2012)

Call Nick to see if someone nearer you has their grapes. Normally you need no deposit and you can reserve ahead of time (a good idea ) the grapes you want to pick up. There are no minimums on any grapes at M&M.
Malvina


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## ibglowin (Jun 25, 2012)

Whats the old saying about "beggars can't be choosey"......

I can source fruit "locally" if you call 350 miles away local. I can get most anything I could want on a normal year for ~$.75lb FOB the vineyard. Due to the extraordinary hot growing season with plenty of days of 100 degree plus weather the grapes are high brix but unfortunately also high pH and low acid and require heavy adjustments. The wine comes out pretty good but nothing near CA quality. I have sent an email to Suisun to see about a distributer closer to me than 1150 miles (where they are). This part of the country you just get used to having to drive large distances to get some of the things you want in life. I am always up for a good road trip. I will definitely contact M&M and see if I could intercept a truck on I40 somewhere through the State. You would think they would have a drop somewhere out this way (Phoenix or Denver etc.)

Again thanks for the tips!


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## carmine (Jun 25, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> Call Nick to see if someone nearer you has their grapes. Normally you need no deposit and you can reserve ahead of time (a good idea ) the grapes you want to pick up. There are no minimums on any grapes at M&M.
> Malvina


 Well Malvina you our a lucky girl if you donot put a deposit down at M and M because for a few years now Franks crew have been taking deposits for quarentee of pre ordered grapes. I think Frank likes you then Malvina. LOL By the way Wade chilean grapes are not 18$ for 18 lbs more like 27$ for 18 lbs. Those prices were 6 years ago. By the way how do I get the thumbs up to apear on my replys?


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## robie (Jun 25, 2012)

carmine said:


> . By the way how do I get the thumbs up to apear on my replys?


 
One doesn't see the thumbs up on one's own replies.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jun 25, 2012)

carmine said:


> Well Malvina you our a lucky girl if you donot put a deposit down at M and M because for a few years now Franks crew have been taking deposits for quarentee of pre ordered grapes. I think Frank likes you then Malvina. LOL By the way Wade chilean grapes are not 18$ for 18 lbs more like 27$ for 18 lbs. Those prices were 6 years ago. By the way how do I get the thumbs up to apear on my replys?


Well Carmine maybe you are right about Frankie liking me. But except for a very large order or the premium grapes in large quantity most of the grapes are sold off the loading dock all the time. But I think you are thinking about good quantites of Lanza and Beckstoffer. The best advice is to call Nick and let him tell you what you need to do. Oh Carmine were you looking for the thumbs up for me? You are so nice. Thank you
Malvina


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## carmine (Jun 25, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> Well Carmine maybe you are right about Frankie liking me. But except for a very large order or the premium grapes in large quantity most of the grapes are sold off the loading dock all the time. But I think you are thinking about good quantites of Lanza and Beckstoffer. The best advice is to call Nick and let him tell you what you need to do. Oh Carmine were you looking for the thumbs up for me? You are so nice. Thank you
> Malvina


 Malvina i was speaking about good Quality grapes you are right. Yes Malvina i was looking for the thumbs up for you!!


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## CellarRat (Jun 29, 2012)

Its kind of funny that malvina is liked 9 times on 8 posts! Not many winemaking women to go around.


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## Wade E (Jun 29, 2012)

Id say its more because she knows her sh!t!


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## CellarRat (Jun 29, 2012)

Wade E said:


> Id say its more because she knows her sh!t!



Whether she knows her **** or not doesnt preclude my original premise.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jun 30, 2012)

Boys you are making me Blush. Thank you all. You are all so sweet. 
Malvina


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