# What is the best way to make high proof legal alcohol



## Juggernaut (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm wondering if anyone knows how to make high proof clean tasting alcohol that has low methanol and is still legal to make.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 9, 2014)

The only real way is to use a good, strong yeast (like ec-1118) and to step-feed it. That is, start out with a SG of 1.100 or so, add ec-1118, and then keep adding sugar after it ferments down,


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 9, 2014)

turbo yeast....


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## grapeman (Feb 9, 2014)

This topic will be monitored closely. Any form of bumping up the alcohol level other than natural fermentation or adding legal spirits is not allowed per the forum rules and any mention of such will be removed.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_rulesandregulations


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## LeChat (Feb 10, 2014)

Would aging in a wooden cask at low RH concentrate the product further?


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## GaDawg (Feb 10, 2014)

I am sure you can find info about distillation other places on the internet, but this ain't it


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## GreginND (Feb 10, 2014)

LeChat said:


> Would aging in a wooden cask at low RH concentrate the product further?



It will not concentrate the alcohol. Alcohol is more volatile than water.


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## seth8530 (Feb 10, 2014)

grapeman said:


> This topic will be monitored closely. Any form of bumping up the alcohol level other than natural fermentation or adding legal spirits is not allowed per the forum rules and any mention of such will be removed.
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_rulesandregulations



Does this also include discussion of freeze fractioning?


On the topic of OP, I would most likely go with something like ec-1118 or perhaps one of the more exotic yeast that are designed to make uber high alcohol. Just be careful, it might not taste all that good. I would also make sure you give them yeasties plenty of nutrients as well.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 10, 2014)

the super yeast, and turbo yeast will make a 20 percent abv in a few short days.


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## Juggernaut (Feb 10, 2014)

So could I make a weak vodka tasting wine by step feeding ec-1118 to around 18% if I use sugar and yeast nutrient? How about adding yeast energizer? I could run it through a Brita filter to improve the flavor I think.


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## seth8530 (Feb 10, 2014)

I would read up on one of the YAN topic on this forum. That would tell you all you need to know about nutrient additions, which would be crucial in such an endevor.

Also, if stepfeeding, I recommend that you keep track of your volume at each step very closely since it becomes difficult to calculate ABV if you do not.


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## JohnT (Feb 10, 2014)

Just to put my own slant on this.. 

Natural Fermentation is the only legal way to produce an alcoholic beverage. Any additional process that you might employ (including distillation or partial crystallization) to "up" the level of alcohol is illegal. (unless you have both state and federal licenses to manufacture). This is mostly because the US government is protecting their alcohol tax revenue.

By and large, the most ABV you can get out of natural fermentation is around 18 or 19%. This is the point where most yeasts are killed off by the alcohol they produce. 

In short, for the amateur, there is no such a thing as a Legal/high proof alcohol.


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## SmokeyMcBong (Feb 10, 2014)

Touchy topic but out of curiosity 

If you froze your wine, then partially thaw it you'll end up with the higher alcohol thawing first. couldn't you then referment the leftover liquid, then combine with the original thawed liquid??

I don't think thats the same thing as distilling is it? youre still just naturally fermenting? and you would almost have to end up with a higher alcohol wine in the end.

If this post is inappropriate, please remove.


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## richmke (Feb 10, 2014)

How about freezing to concentrate alcohol? Seems like that would be a hard one to enforce. Just say you were cold crashing, and forgot about it.


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## LittleBearGameFarm (Feb 10, 2014)

My guess is anytime you get into freezing an alcoholic spirit, you are probably getting into illegal territory. The re-fermenting of the liquid would be legal, but the freezing illegal. Just get a bottle of everclear and call her good.


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## JohnT (Feb 10, 2014)

The freezing process (partial crystallization) is just as illegal as distillation.


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## GreginND (Feb 10, 2014)

JohnT said:


> The freezing process (partial crystallization) is just as illegal as distillation.



^This

Concentration of any kind is not legal for an unlicensed home brewer in the United States.


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## GreginND (Feb 10, 2014)

SmokeyMcBong said:


> couldn't you then referment the leftover liquid, then combine with the original thawed liquid??



The leftover liquid is nearly all water. What is there to ferment?


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## SmokeyMcBong (Feb 10, 2014)

GreginND said:


> The leftover liquid is nearly all water. What is there to ferment?



if you start with a very high gravity liquid and fermented it to the yeasts alcohol tolerance whatever it might be, there would be lots of sugar left in the now finished but extremely sweet wine. after freezing and thawing off the alcohol the remaining liquid would be quite high in sugar.

I read about a guy doing it to a dark beer that he had miscalculated something or other in the recipe. He removed a bunch of alcohol by freezing it and then repitched to the leftover liquid. after that fermented he just mixed the two liquids and bottled it up.


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## LeChat (Feb 10, 2014)

With the development of Graphene, we are bound to see new ways of achieving this.

It allows water vapor to go through, but not ethanol vapor. Meaning that low energy "evaporation" can be achieved.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 10, 2014)

SmokeyMcBong said:


> if you start with a very high gravity liquid and fermented it to the yeasts alcohol tolerance whatever it might be, there would be lots of sugar left in the now finished but extremely sweet wine. after freezing and thawing off the alcohol the remaining liquid would be quite high in sugar.
> 
> I read about a guy doing it to a dark beer that he had miscalculated something or other in the recipe. He removed a bunch of alcohol by freezing it and then repitched to the leftover liquid. after that fermented he just mixed the two liquids and bottled it up.



You seem to be under the misunderstanding that the part that freezes will be richer in alcohol. It's the other way around.

Also, what would be the point of starting with a gravity above the yeasts' ability to ferment it? Why not choose a SG that your yeast can handle, and ferment to dry.


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## SmokeyMcBong (Feb 10, 2014)

sour_grapes said:


> You seem to be under the misunderstanding that the part that freezes will be richer in alcohol. It's the other way around.
> 
> Also, what would be the point of starting with a gravity above the yeasts' ability to ferment it? Why not choose a SG that your yeast can handle, and ferment to dry.



not misunderstanding. the part that is richer in alcohol is will indeed take longer to freeze but take much less time to thaw. therefore the first liquid to thaw from the block would be much higher in alcohol then what remains in the block.

you would start way too high so that after the yeast has made, lets say 20 percent alcohol, there would still be lots of sugar left after harvesting the alcohol by freezing. if you ferment dry, there would be no sugar left in the block of wine that the alcohol has thawed from. by going way higher, there would be sugar left in the wine after the yeast died of alcohol poisoning. this sugar would feed a newly pitched packet of yeast to produce more wine from the alcohol stripped "wine must" (lack of better term). then the harvested alcohol could be remixed with the "wine must" after its second fermentation.

heres the article that I read about it http://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/ice-concentration-to-resurrection.html again, if any of this is not cool here just delete it. I am assuming though, that because the conversation has been allowed to continue this long, nothing taboo has been mentioned.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 10, 2014)

SmokeyMcBong said:


> not misunderstanding. the part that is richer in alcohol is will indeed take longer to freeze but take much less time to thaw. therefore the first liquid to thaw from the block would be much higher in alcohol then what remains in the block.


Okay, the proposed procedure was not clear to me from your first posts. I understand it now.



> you would start way too high so that after the yeast has made, lets say 20 percent alcohol, there would still be lots of sugar left after harvesting the alcohol by freezing. if you ferment dry, there would be no sugar left in the block of wine that the alcohol has thawed from. by going way higher, there would be sugar left in the wine after the yeast died of alcohol poisoning. this sugar would feed a newly pitched packet of yeast to produce more wine from the alcohol stripped "wine must" (lack of better term). then the harvested alcohol could be remixed with the "wine must" after its second fermentation.


Or you could start with less sugar, ferment to dry, do your illegal procedure, then add more sugar later if you desired. I still don't understand why you'd put more in to begin with. It just makes it harder to do the first fermentation well.



> again, if any of this is not cool here just delete it. I am assuming though, that because the conversation has been allowed to continue this long, nothing taboo has been mentioned.



No, I think it has been made abundantly clear that our understanding of the proposed procedure is illegal in the country that hosts this forum.


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## grapeman (Feb 10, 2014)

Even after warning about this subject a few of you kept pursuing the subject.

Freezing the wine to bump up the alcohol is called fractional distillation and is just as illegal as using a still. If you need to discuss the subject go somewhere else because it is not allowed here.

Pumpkinman closed the thread- end of subject.


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