# 48 hours and no fermentation!



## AJH89 (Mar 28, 2021)

I started a batch of Lon D's Skeeter Pee and I think I may have messed up the yeast starter because it's been 48 hours and there's no sign of fermentation in my primary. I did not have this problem with my 1st batch which was a strawberry wine. When I made my yeast starter I just added half a cup of hot water (my water heater gets our hot water HOT!) and a tbls of sugar in a cup with 2 packs of K1- V1116. I let it sit for 20 minutes and it got a nice big foamy head. Seemed like everything was working to me so I dumped it in my primary, mixed it up and closed it off. 48 hours later no bubbling from my air lock, no foaming in my primary nothing. I'm gonna give it another 24 hours I guess and if it doesn't start then I'd assume somethings wrong. Any input is valued, thanks

SG is currently at 1.070
Acid is sitting at 3.6


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## Bossbaby (Mar 28, 2021)

Acidity is going to be the main culprit I'm thinking, so if possible check the ph. If you added all of the lemon juice up front it will take some effort to get going , In my last batch of S.P. I did just that and it took a week and a second healthy yeast starter to get it to take off. keep the must above 70 degrees as well. good luck.


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## AJH89 (Mar 28, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> Acidity is going to be the main culprit I'm thinking, so if possible check the ph. If you added all of the lemon juice up front it will take some effort to get going , In my last batch of S.P. I did just that and it took a week and a second healthy yeast starter to get it to take off. keep the must above 70 degrees as well. good luck.



I edited my post and added the sg and acid. I did not put all 5he lemon juice in. Acidity is sitting at 3.6 right now


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## Bossbaby (Mar 28, 2021)

I feel it just takes a bit longer with this wine to take off, it is also beneficial to not keep under airlock during primary , a cloth over top of the bucket is best and give it a stir every day to help the yeasties breath, once S.G. is below 1.000 then airlock.


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## AJH89 (Mar 28, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> I feel it just takes a bit longer with this wine to take off, it is also beneficial to not keep under airlock during primary , a cloth over top of the bucket is best and give it a stir every day to help the yeasties breath, once S.G. is below 1.000 then airlock.



I have seen people say that Skeeter pee usually takes longer for the fermentation to take off. I hope that's all it is. Lon D's recipe did call for 7 cups of sugar and an sg of 1.070. It took me 9 cups of sugar to get that sg reading so if fermentation doesn't start I would assume it could possibly be from sugar shock. How many days should I let my batch sit before I try and start messing with it? And what is the protocol trying to get it started when having issues?


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## Bossbaby (Mar 28, 2021)

Patients is a must when it comes to wine, give it a couple days and if nothing happening pitch another yeast starter.


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## AJH89 (Mar 28, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> Patients is a must when it comes to wine, give it a couple days and if nothing happening pitch another yeast starter.


Good deal. Does putting that much yest in effect taste? Obviously I'll do it to save my batch, but just wondering what the effects would be from a delayed batch or multiple yeast drops.


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## heatherd (Mar 28, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> I started a batch of Lon D's Skeeter Pee and I think I may have messed up the yeast starter because it's been 48 hours and there's no sign of fermentation in my primary. I did not have this problem with my 1st batch which was a strawberry wine. When I made my yeast starter I just added half a cup of hot water (my water heater gets our hot water HOT!) and a tbls of sugar in a cup with 2 packs of K1- V1116. I let it sit for 20 minutes and it got a nice big foamy head. Seemed like everything was working to me so I dumped it in my primary, mixed it up and closed it off. 48 hours later no bubbling from my air lock, no foaming in my primary nothing. I'm gonna give it another 24 hours I guess and if it doesn't start then I'd assume somethings wrong. Any input is valued, thanks
> 
> SG is currently at 1.070
> Acid is sitting at 3.6


You can kill yeast if your water's too hot; if nothings happening you can sprinkle the yeast next time. Foam and bubbles are not an indication of fermentation so check with your hydrometer.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 28, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Does putting that much yest in effect taste?



No, nothing to worry about on that head.


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## hounddawg (Mar 28, 2021)

and to add,, no sugar shock, lol, um, they call me a sweet tooth,,, i add way more sugar than that with out problems, now beings i ain't right in the head, i use for SP,,, EC-1118 as my yeast, and for SP,,,, K1V-1116 will work fine as well
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Mar 29, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> and to add,, no sugar shock, lol, um, they call me a sweet tooth,,, i add way more sugar than that with out problems, now beings i ain't right in the head, i use for SP EC-1118 as my yeast, and for SP K1V-1116 will work fine as well
> Dawg


Oh, okay. I had heard that too much sugar can cause a stall. Not gonna lie I thought I was a "dry drinker" so to speak, but after my first batch that you and a bunch of other veterans in this site helped me out with i've found I'm a hot wine sweet tooth, lol.


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## AJH89 (Mar 29, 2021)

heatherd said:


> You can kill yeast if your water's too hot; if nothings happening you can sprinkle the yeast next time. Foam and bubbles are not an indication of fermentation so check with your hydrometer.


Valid point, one thing I am 100% on is the water wasn't too hot. My water heater gets hot, but not like that. I'm wondering if it wasn't hot enough, yet it seemed to be cultivating like crazy in my starter glass


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## hounddawg (Mar 29, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Oh, okay. I had heard that too much sugar can cause a stall. Not gonna lie I thought I was a "dry drinker" so to speak, but after my first batch that you and a bunch of other veterans in this site helped me out with i've found I'm a hot wine sweet tooth, lol.


grapes are done many ways to get certain styles, but fruits and berries takes back sweetening to bring out your flavor, 
Dawg

BTW
good to have another hot and sweet drinker on here, I've learned that if you add enough fruit or berry per gallon then you can make 18 ABV with no hot taste to it, any wine i make, will buzz you good on the first glass, i don't party any more, but to kick back and drink a really tasteful drink and get that all's well buzz to relax you out, is a nice aspect for evening time,


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## mikewatkins727 (Mar 29, 2021)

Try this technique to rehydrate the yeast in preparation to pitching it: Add the yeast (one packet) to one cup of warm water (100℉ +/- 5℉), add a pinch of yeast nutrient. If in 30 minutes it looks to be foamy, proceed. At the 4 hour mark add ¼ cup of water. Another 4 hours later add ¼ cup of wine must. Another 4 hours add ½ cup of wine must, another 4 hours pitch the yeast. What you are doing is waking up the yeast and allowing it to multiply, by adding wine must you are adapting the yeast to the wine must environment. After 20 hours there are a lot of yeast bodies to work on the wine. I got this technique from winemaker Jack Keller.


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## AJH89 (Mar 29, 2021)

72 hours and still nothing! I'm hoping overnight this puppy kicks in but it doesn't look hopeful  I guess tomorrow I'll be dropping in another yeast starter if she doesn't go


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## hounddawg (Mar 29, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> 72 hours and still nothing! I'm hoping overnight this puppy kicks in but it doesn't look hopeful  I guess tomorrow I'll be dropping in another yeast starter if she doesn't go


what are you using for yeast?
Dawg


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## Bossbaby (Mar 29, 2021)

I've had to water down a little and adjust gravity/sugar to reduce acid to get things going, but if your at ph 3.6 I feel it will happen in a day or so.


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## AJH89 (Mar 30, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> what are you using for yeast?
> Dawg


K1- V1116
I even did a heavy starter by using 2 packs


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## hounddawg (Mar 30, 2021)

you can cut yur must in half, add water to both so you have double the wine add your yeast , after your ferments are done, then add more lemon, rack to secondary's and let clear and degas, 
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Mar 31, 2021)

Last night I pitched another yeast starter at 11pm (I had a long work day). Just checked it at 10am. SG reads the same 1.070. Here's a reading of the acid. Not sure how accurate these paper straps are but still looks like a 3.6 to me. Hopefully it takes off in the next 12-24 hours or else I'll be splitting my must like @hounddawg said or maybe @mikewatkins727 method. Those sound promising.


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## hounddawg (Mar 31, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Last night I pitched another yeast starter at 11pm (I had a long work day). Just checked it at 10am. SG reads the same 1.070. Here's a reading of the acid. Not sure how accurate these paper straps are but still looks like a 3.6 to me. Hopefully it takes off in the next 12-24 hours or else I'll be splitting my must like @hounddawg said or maybe @mikewatkins727 method. Those sound promising.


paper strips are not any to good. a cheap ph meter and some 4 buffer solution to keep it calibrated 
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Mar 31, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> paper strips are not any to good. a cheap ph meter and some 4 buffer solution to keep it calibrated
> Dawg


So if my current yeast pitch doesn't take off, I'd like to know yalls full proof-of-concept plan


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## hounddawg (Apr 1, 2021)

what do you have ?
gallons of water ?
fruits or juices ?
SG ?
how much of everything ?
Dawg


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## KCCam (Apr 1, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> So if my current yeast pitch doesn't take off, I'd like to know yalls full proof-of-concept plan


Did you follow the recipe exactly?
What temp is your must?
How much lemon juice did you start with?

I tried SP once and couldn’t get it to ferment either. Since then I’ve learned that partly why the recipe calls for a slurry, a healthy colony of yeast from a previous fermentation, is to improve the chances of fermentation. I also learned from @hounddawg and others that when using dry yeast it helps to only use 32 oz of lemon juice per 6 gallons of must. Add the rest after fermentation. 

If you started with more than 32 oz lemon juice, I like Dawg’s suggestion of cutting it with water, and adding sugar to bring it back up to SG 1.070 (me, I’d go to 1.085). You could try that on a small scale, say take 1/2 gal of must in a primary, add 1/2 gal water, add sugar, mix very, very well until you are sure the sugar is dissolved. Sprinkle the yeast on top to avoid any problems you might be introducing from rehydrating the yeast. Cover with a towel (don’t stir again). This will only cost you a modest amount of sugar and a package of yeast to try. If that works, start introducing similarly cut must to the active fermentation slowly, over a couple days. 

My answer, when I had problems? I “converted” it to Dragon Blood by thawing 9 lbs of frozen triple-berry blend and 5 very overripe bananas, added enough sugar to bring SG to 1.090, and sprinkled EC-1118 on top. It took off immediately, and fermented perfectly. 

I’m not an expert (yet), so take my suggestions with a grain of salt (uh, or sugar).


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## hounddawg (Apr 1, 2021)

KCCam said:


> Did you follow the recipe exactly?
> What temp is your must?
> How much lemon juice did you start with?
> 
> ...


heck I've read your posts, you've learned more in a few months than me in years
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Apr 1, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> what do you have ?
> gallons of water ?
> fruits or juices ?
> SG ?
> ...



5.5 gallons of water
Only lemon juice @ 64ozs
9lbs of sugar
3 tsps of yeast nutrients 
1 tsps of yeast energizer
1.070 sg


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## AJH89 (Apr 1, 2021)

KCCam said:


> Did you follow the recipe exactly?
> What temp is your must?
> How much lemon juice did you start with?
> 
> ...



I did Lon D's recipie almost exact except... I did not use a yeast slurry (I wasn't sure what that was) and it took me 9lbs of sugar to get the sg where the recipie called for instead of 6lbs. 64 ozs of lemon juice as said in recipie. Why even add the lemon juice if it's such a beatdown on the yeast? Why not Just add it all after fermentation is done?


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## AJH89 (Apr 1, 2021)

If it is not fermenting by the time I get back to my house tonight I will be splitting the must, adding water and sugar to both and pitching the yeast starter for each


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## Jovimaple (Apr 1, 2021)

We had this convo with someone else on another thread so I went back and reread your posts here and saw you have it under airlock.

I suspect yours might not have enough oxygen if you have it under airlock. If it's in a carboy, I would suggest dumping it into a sanitized food grade bucket and cover it with a thin towel. If it's in a fermenting bucket with an airlock, I would suggest removing the airlock and - you guessed it - covering it with a thin towel.

I started a 3 gallon batch of skeeter pee (with half the lemon) in a bucket 4 days ago, pitched the yeast 3 days ago, and it's fermenting fine in the bucket with a towel over it, on a heater pad which is set for 74 degrees F. It started at 1.080 and was down to 1.062 last night, and it's even more bubbly and foamy today. I used a pack of EC-1118 which I started in a cup of 100 degree F water for 15 minutes, then stirred it into the must I had prepared about 20 hours earlier.

I stir my wine musts every day during primary fermentation to get oxygen to the yeast, then when the S.G. gets below 1.010, I rack to a carboy with an airlock.


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## AJH89 (Apr 5, 2021)

Fermentation has taken off! I did what @hounddawg suggested and split the must. It only took 24hours for the Fermentation to take off. What a learning lesson with this Skeeter pee.


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## AJH89 (Apr 7, 2021)

Now my next concern.. nothing big. But I forgot to get an initial sg of my must before ever adding any sugar. I'm trying to hit 18%abv. How many lbs of sugar total you think it'll take to get me there? My last batch of strawberry wine hit around 19-21% and tasted amazing! People could tell it was strong but it tasted so good it didn't matter. Hoping to get something like that again.


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## hounddawg (Apr 7, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Now my next concern.. nothing big. But I forgot to get an initial sg of my must before ever adding any sugar. I'm trying to hit 18%abv. How many lbs total you think it'll take to get me there? My last batch of strawberry wine hit around 19-21% and tasted amazing! People could tell it was strong but it tasted so good it didn't matter. Hoping to get something like that again.


I pick the SG that suits my taste, then when it drops below that, i run my SG back to where i like the taste, till your SG remains the same for 3 days in a row, using either EC-1118 OR K1V-1116
that way all my wines run anywhere from 18% to 21% ABV, you will need to add yeast nutrients and yeast energizer, to get 20 to 21 ABV, now i use double to triple the fruit of berries, that way your wines still taste very good
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Apr 7, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> I pick the SG that suits my taste, then when it drops below that, i run my SG back to where i like the taste, till your SG remains the same for 3 days in a row, using either EC-1118 OR K1V-1116
> that way all my wines run anywhere from 18% to 21% ABV, you will need to add yeast nutrients and yeast energizer, to get 20 to 21 ABV, now i use double to triple the fruit of berries, that way your wines still taste very good
> Dawg



I see what you're doing there @hounddawg 

You're basically back sweetening during the fermentation process, therefore when fermentation is complete you don't have to back sweeten it anymore and you've gotten max abv%. Pretty smart.


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## AJH89 (Apr 7, 2021)

Ugh, the hurdles just keep coming! I checked my SG today and both musts are the same 1.050. So Lon D's recipe calls for 3 more tsps of yeast nutrient and 3/4 tsps of energizer once I get to that SG reading. I got the energizer but only 2 tsps divided between the buckets so 1tsp per bucket. Will that take me the distance for the rest of my fermentation? Or am I going to need more? Any homemade yeast nutrient recipes? Keep in mind before I split the must into 2 I put 3tsps of yeast nutrient in there to start


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## hounddawg (Apr 7, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Ugh, the hurdles just keep coming! I checked my SG today and both musts are the same 1.050. So Lon D's recipe calls for 3 more tsps of yeast nutrient and 3/4 tsps of energizer once I get to that SG reading. I got the energizer but only 2 tsps divided between the buckets so 1tsp per bucket. Will that take me the distance for the rest of my fermentation? Or am I going to need more? Any homemade yeast nutrient recipes? Keep in mind before I split the must into 2 I put 3tsps of yeast nutrient in there to start


i'd just split what you got left, and from here on out keep extra of most everything including hydrometers
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Apr 9, 2021)

Alright, sitting pretty at 1.030. Fermentation still going! Tomorrow I'll be able to go buy more yeast nutrients from my local home brew store and I'll add a couple tsps to each primary to keep Fermentation going to hopefully reach max abv content. Will be slowly step feeding sugar when I get around 1.000 also.


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## AJH89 (Apr 9, 2021)

Issue:

I have taken the tops off my primary days ago to start the fermentation as mentioned from multiple people. Put a beach towel over both. One of my primaries had like 10 dead gnats in it, I threw em out and recovered. Now I see a group of gnats chillin outside the towel. I've heard bugs can turn my wine into vinegar. It's definitely not tainted at the moment.. smells like alcohol. any suggestions? Not really a fan of Not using a lid to be honest...


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## Rembee (Apr 9, 2021)

I would go ahead and put the lid back on with an airlock at this point. If your primary is a bucket then they do not always seal up air tight anyway, so you will still have enough O2 for the yeast. That should keep the fruit flies out of it. You can give it a good stir everyday until you get below 1.020 SG which will intorduce 02. Then I would rack to a carboy.


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## hounddawg (Apr 9, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Issue:
> 
> I have taken the tops off my primary days ago to start the fermentation as mentioned from multiple people. Put a beach towel over both. One of my primaries had like 10 dead gnats in it, I threw em out and recovered. Now I see a group of gnats chillin outside the towel. I've heard bugs can turn my wine into vinegar. It's definitely not tainted at the moment.. smells like alcohol. any suggestions? Not really a fan of Not using a lid to be honest...


pump their stomach's to make sure the live nets aren't smuggling booze,,, food grade diatomaceous earth , sprinkled around will help with gnats and ants, 
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Apr 12, 2021)

Got down to 1.010 sg this morning. Tossed in some sugar and brought both buckets up to 1.030, will be getting more yeast nutrients from the store and will be adding 2 tsps to both buckets. I did notice it sometimes smells sulfuric when I catch wifs of it. Is that from the campden tablets maybe? Should I be alarmed? Sure does taste good though!


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## Bossbaby (Apr 12, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Got down to 1.010 sg this morning. Tossed in some sugar and brought both buckets up to 1.030, will be getting more yeast nutrients from the store and will be adding 2 tsps to both buckets. I did notice it sometimes smells sulfuric when I catch wifs of it. Is that from the campden tablets maybe? Should I be alarmed? Sure does taste good though!


The first batch I made that had the same issues as yours to a T, I split the batch and all ended up with a noticeable hydrogen sulfide issue. I ended up treating it with reduless and it saved the wine from the egg smell, I just actually just had a glass and it is wonderful..


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## AJH89 (Apr 12, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> The first batch I made that had the same issues as yours to a T, I split the batch and all ended up with a noticeable hydrogen sulfide issue. I ended up treating it with reduless and it saved the wine from the egg smell, I just actually just had a glass and it is wonderful..



Hmmm, that reduless is interesting stuff. I just did a little research on it. The instructions are kinda confusing though. From my understanding you pre mix the powder with 10x it's weight in water and then add it to your primary and then rack into a carboy after 72 hours? Couldn't I just figure out how much my must weighs and divide the weight by 10 and add that amount of reduless straight to my must?


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## AJH89 (Apr 12, 2021)

How'd you do it @Bossbaby ?


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## Bossbaby (Apr 12, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> How'd you do it @Bossbaby ?




I followed these directions in the package..


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## hounddawg (Apr 12, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> View attachment 73414
> 
> I followed these directions in the package..


hum,, what is you're using powdered water?
Dawg


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## AJH89 (Apr 12, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> View attachment 73414
> 
> I followed these directions in the package..



So does the reduless leave behind stuff at the bottom that I need to avoid picking up during racking over?


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## AJH89 (Apr 12, 2021)

I must say I'm not crazy about using that stuff, apparently can poison your wine. I may just dump out this Skeeter pee and do something else. Can't say I'm a fan of Skeeter pee so far!


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## AJH89 (Apr 13, 2021)

Funny how things change. I can't seem to smell any sulfur smell today . I did add more nutrients to it yesterday, maybe the yeast is less stressed and not emitting anymore odors? I gave both primaries a really good drill mix today, just smells like alcohol. So far 10.5lbs of sugar added and still fermenting.


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## AJH89 (Apr 17, 2021)

Hmmm, one of the buckets of must seems to have stopped fermentation at 1.020. It's only gotten 10.5lbs of sugar. Surely it hasn't hit max abv% right? My guess is it's stuck or done, what's yalls take? Sorry for this thread to keep dragging on. I'm still learning.


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## montanarick (Apr 18, 2021)

not sure how much volume you started with or what the brix/SG was but off hand 10.5# seems like a lot of sugar. you may have gotten the alcohol beyond the point where the yeast can handle it. also depends on what yeast you're using - some have lower ABV tolerance


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## AJH89 (Apr 19, 2021)

montanarick said:


> not sure how much volume you started with or what the brix/SG was but off hand 10.5# seems like a lot of sugar. you may have gotten the alcohol beyond the point where the yeast can handle it. also depends on what yeast you're using - some have lower ABV tolerance



K1V-1116 is the yeast I started with. 5.5 gallons. Never got a SG reading before I added sugar. I started with 9lbs and when the SG dropped to 1.010 I added 1.5 lbs


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## montanarick (Apr 19, 2021)

went back and skimmed the entire thread. looks like K1V-1116 has alcohol tolerance of 18% so yeast isn't likely the problem. when and how many campden tablets did you put in the brew? what temp is your must? how much Reduless did you add?
sometimes too much stuff added can mess things up - i've learned from experience


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## AJH89 (Apr 19, 2021)

montanarick said:


> went back and skimmed the entire thread. looks like K1V-1116 has alcohol tolerance of 18% so yeast isn't likely the problem. when and how many campden tablets did you put in the brew? what temp is your must? how much Reduless did you add?
> sometimes too much stuff added can mess things up - i've learned from experience



I started my must on the 28th with 5 campden tablets, but I split the must on the 4th so only 2.5 campden tablets in each bucket. The fermentation started on the 5th. No reduless has been used


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## AJH89 (Apr 19, 2021)

I think I may just need more nutrients. Both buckets have already gotten 4.5 tsps of nutrients.


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## montanarick (Apr 19, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> I think I may just need more nutrients. Both buckets have already gotten 4.5 tsps of nutrients.


literature calls for between 0.4 and 0.8 gm/gal which equates to roughly 1/4 to 1/2 tsp based on 2.75 gal. assuming you split your initial 5.5 gal batch. you may have already overcooked you wine.
If you already don't have it download FermCalc - do google search. it'll really help you with all the calculation and conversions. and get a decent digital scale - relying on tsp's really ain't the way to go


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## AJH89 (Apr 19, 2021)

montanarick said:


> literature calls for between 0.4 and 0.8 gm/gal which equates to roughly 1/4 to 1/2 tsp based on 2.75 gal. assuming you split your initial 5.5 gal batch. you may have already overcooked you wine.
> If you already don't have it download FermCalc - do google search. it'll really help you with all the calculation and conversions. and get a decent digital scale - relying on tsp's really ain't the way to go


Over cooked? Not sure what that means. The recipe calls for 6 teaspoons. I haven't even hit that yet. Still brings me to why fermentation has stopped. Looking online it says typical rule of thumb is 2-3lbs of sugar per gallon to hit 14%abv so my must really needs like 15+lbs of sugar to come close to 18%abv so it definitely hasn't hit max abv. Not sure why it's stopped though. This Skeeter pee has been a rough batch!


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## montanarick (Apr 19, 2021)

Sorry - I was referring to nutrient addition. best advise then is to follow the recipe religiously if it's tried and true. good luck


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## AJH89 (Apr 21, 2021)

It seems as though both buckets have stopped well below the alcohol content that the yeast I'm using will yield. Dumped in 2 teaspoons of nutrients 48hours ago in each and still reading same SG on each. One at 10%abv and one at 12% abv estimated. Should I even bottle these? Or maybe just start over?


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## AJH89 (May 15, 2021)

So I ended up bottling the Skeeter pee! It cleared up no problem, not nearly as yellow as I thought it'd be, it's almost clear. Looks and taste like white wine. Anyone know how to figure out abv % without an initial SG? It took 12 cups of sugar during fermentation and fermented all the way down to 1.010 once it finally quit out on me. I tried to keep the fermentation going but it was done so I decided to clear, stabilize and bottle.


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## Raptor99 (May 15, 2021)

AJH89 said:


> Anyone know how to figure out abv % without an initial SG?



If you have a refractometer you can measure the Brix as well. Then use the current SG and the current Brix with this calculator to determine the ABV: Homebrew Refractometer Calculator.


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