# Oaking Fruit Wines



## cohenhouse77 (Apr 9, 2013)

Over the weekend I was finally able to make my way up to our "local" home brew store which is 70 miles away in neighboring Gainesville, Fl. The store, Hoggtowne Ale Works, is located right on University Avenue. To make the situation worse, we arrived right in the middle of the Orange and Blue game, which is the first football game of the season for the Gators. It made our lives a bit hectic and I am not sure if our friends that rode with us will ever get in a car with me again but.... it was a really nice store that caters to the local collegiate beer makers, and they carried just about everything you would need for wine as well. 

I went a bit crazy as it was my first time in an actual store where I could touch things before I bought them. Way cool concept. One of the items they were well stocked in were oak, also very reasonably priced. Light oak, medium oak, chips, cubes, sticks, etc. I who have never used oak, and never intended on ever using oak, bought the lot. 

I have full intention of adding my medium toast cubes to my new batch of Rosso once it is in secondary. Beyond that, I feel like I have a new toy that I don't know how to play with. I have batches of Muscadine, Apple Pie, Ice Riesling, and Apple Red Hot, all bulk aging at the moment. I have a tropical Riesling and Rosso in primary along with my Feral Strawberry. I can't imagine oaking any of the above besides the Rosso. 

How do you all use your oak? Do you ever oak your fruit wines and if so which ones?


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## UBB (Apr 9, 2013)

I currently have some blackberry and blueberry bulk aging with oak.FWIW


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## cohenhouse77 (Apr 9, 2013)

UBB said:


> I currently have some blackberry and blueberry bulk aging with oak.FWIW



Hey UBB! What kind of oak did you use and what quantity? How long are you leaving it in?


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## Duster (Apr 9, 2013)

I was the same way, I started using oak about a year ago and now I oak a lot of fruit wines. Sweet concord, raspberry, blueberry, Plum ect. It's all about taste, the oak seems to add a hint of deep richness to the flavor and seems to aid in clearing. 
With that said I don't like oak in white fruit wines like peach. Again, it's all about personal taste.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Apr 9, 2013)

Up to now you have shown absolutely no reservation in doing anything and just as you stand on the edge of truly taking the next step into making great wines you hesitate? Oaked strawberry is GOOD, dont add to much, med toast, just a little layer in the back is good. Any berry can be oaked, black raspberry, blackberry, elderberry all take a lot of oak very well. Apple + oak, bannana + oak, you might not want to oak a petunia wine but why not just a little? Its all in the amount and time. One nice product is oakmor powder, you can add it in the primary, it sinks to the bottom by the time you rack, if you want more oakiness then you break out your beans, chips, staves, bigger pieces that can be left in. You can even taste it every week to see how oaky it is. Take the step, if you screw it up and add to much you get to take the next step in winemaking - BLENDING  WVMJ


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## Julie (Apr 9, 2013)

Add some oak to that muscadine! You will not be sorry. And as said above, make a blackberry and add some oak to that.


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## UBB (Apr 9, 2013)

cohenhouse77 said:


> Hey UBB! What kind of oak did you use and what quantity? How long are you leaving it in?


In the blackberry I used 3oz of 'West Coast Blend'. It was left in for 9 weeks. I tasted the wine a month and 1/2 later and the oak was still very pronounced. It'll need some time to mellow for sure.

In the blueberry I used 3oz of medium toast french oak. I left the oak in for 3 months. Like the blackberry the plan is to let mellow for for another 6 months or so.


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## cohenhouse77 (Apr 9, 2013)

Should I go light toast or medium toast in the Muscadine Julie? I have a good idea what each one adds to the wine, but humor me and pretend that I am someone that has never used oak before.  Which one would I want to use?


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## Luc (Apr 10, 2013)

I do oak some of my wines but not all.

Best use is in strong flavored reds.
So I oak my plum wines (which are blush but have much flavor) and my elderberry wines.

Do not oak white wines. It just does not suit them.

Luc


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## Julie (Apr 10, 2013)

cohenhouse77 said:


> Should I go light toast or medium toast in the Muscadine Julie? I have a good idea what each one adds to the wine, but humor me and pretend that I am someone that has never used oak before.  Which one would I want to use?


 
If you can get some Hungarian Med Toast, I think you will fall in love all over again with Muscadine.


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## Stressbaby (Apr 10, 2013)

I was thinking of splitting 1 gallon off of my 3 gal batch of persimmon wine and oaking it for the sake of comparisons. Any thoughts on oaking persimmon wine?


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## joeswine (Apr 10, 2013)

*Oak in the wine*

NOT FOR ME i WANT THE AROMA OF FRUIT UP FRONT,THE TEXTURE OF THE WINE IN THE MIDDLE MINGLED WITH AFTER TONES OF FRUIT AND THE FINISH TO TRANSLATE TO WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO BE FRUIT WITH WINE,NOTHING MORE.

BY THE SECOND SIP IT'S ALL ABOUT SENSES


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## cohenhouse77 (Apr 10, 2013)

Julie said:


> If you can get some Hungarian Med Toast, I think you will fall in love all over again with Muscadine.



Yes! I added two ounces of cubes this morning. Thanks Julie.


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## wineforfun (Apr 10, 2013)

Ok, is there anywhere on the site that talks about oak, when to use it, what form to use, what types of wines to use it with, what it does to each type of wine, etc.?
I have seen the section about oak, but it doesn't explain what cohenhouse77 was asking, which is what I would like to know too.


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## GaDawg (Apr 10, 2013)

cohenhouse77 said:


> Over the weekend I was finally able to make my way up to our "local" home brew store which is 70 miles away in neighboring Gainesville, Fl. The store, Hoggtowne Ale Works, is located right on University Avenue. To make the situation worse, we arrived right in the middle of the Orange and Blue game, which is the first football game of the season for the Gators. It made our lives a bit hectic and I am not sure if our friends that rode with us will ever get in a car with me again but....



I'm not sure I would get into a car with you either, GO DAWGS!


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## olusteebus (Apr 10, 2013)

GaDawg said:


> I'm not sure I would get into a car with you either, GO DAWGS!



Yeah, go back to Georgia.











Sorry, I had to say that.


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## ffemt128 (Apr 10, 2013)

I used Medium Toast French cubes in my Noble Muscadine. Very good in my opinion. I believe I used 3 oz to 5 gallons for 2 months. I also use the Meduim French in my elderberry.


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## Downwards (Apr 10, 2013)

I used American oak (can't remember what toast level) cubes in my apple/ blackcurrant. It tastes great except that I wish it wasn't as sweet as it is. That was my first and I had way too much sugar to start.
I've also used medium French oak in my blackberry- agreed with some other posters here that that is a winning combo. 
I have some cyser going now that I've oaked, but no opinion yet of it, still needs time before I can judge it. 
I considered it for my pineapple, but I decided not to in the end. When the fruit is really light, I think oak is a bad choice except for whenever it is a good choice. Just one of those things that you need to taste to see. 
You might want to make a little bottle of oak extract, some oak in some vodka. Then when you are considering whether you want oak in a wine or not just taste a glass with some of the extract in it. I would not use the extract to oak a whole batch ever, but it will give you some idea of what it would taste like in that fruit.


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## Polarhug (Apr 10, 2013)

A good rule might be the heavier the wine, the more oak it can take on?


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## Segarram (Apr 10, 2013)

I once used French oak on my apple wine and it turned out very good!


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## GaDawg (Apr 11, 2013)

Robert Mondavi became famous for oaking white wine. He took Sauvignon Blanc and added oak an renamed it FUMÉ BLANC. So don't hesitate to add oak to white wine


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## cohenhouse77 (Apr 11, 2013)

All good stuff here guys. Let's keep it going. Here is another question inside of a question. I have some French oak, American oak, and Hungarian oak. Do I just need to try each one and see what I like the most? Is there really a noticeable difference between the three? It seems that I can buy American oak cubes a lot less expensive than the other two.

I will say this. I added the full 3 ounces of my Hungarian oak cubes to my Muscadine a night ago. I can taste a huge difference in one night in that particular wine. And you are right, I like it a lot.


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## Julie (Apr 11, 2013)

While reading this I kept thinking somewhere on here someone had posted the characteristic's of the different oaks. So I found it. Here is the link if you are interested on reading the whole thread:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f74/oak-thread-12989/

And here is the info:

Help With Choosing Oak!
The following are results from research done at Stavin and should only be used to give an approximation of what each of these three varieties of oak can bring to your wine. Each sample was made using oak cubes with a two-month contact time and evaluated with no bottle ageing. Please note that due to the complexities of flavor chemistry these findings may or may not translate to your wine 100%. However, this information should be helpful in finding out which type of oak may the best to start with as you refine your oaking tastes.

*French Oak Flavor Summary*

All toast levels have a perceived aromatic sweetness and full mouthfeel.
French oak has a fruity, cinnamon/allspice character, along with custard/ crème brûlée, milk chocolate and campfire/roasted coffee notes*. (*Especially at higher toast levels.)
As the toast levels increased the fruity descriptor for the wine changed from fresh to jammy to cooked fruit/raisin in character.

*American Oak Flavor Summary*
The American oak had aromatic sweetness and a campfire/roasted coffee attribute present in all three toast levels, with Medium Plus and Heavy toast having the highest intensity.
American oak had cooked fruit more than a fresh or jammy quality.
American Oak imparted mouthfeel/fullness, especially in Medium Plus.

*Hungarian Oak Flavor Summary*
The Hungarian oak at Medium toast displayed a high perceived-vanillin content, with roasted coffee, bittersweet chocolate and black pepper characters.
Medium Plus and Heavy toast imparted mouthfeel fullness, with only a slight amount of campfire/roasted coffee. Heavy also had pronounced vanillin. At all toast levels, there were unique attributes such as leather and black pepper, not observed in other oak origins.
Some applicable generalizations of toast levels on oak
The lower the toast, the more tannins (“structure”) and lactones (“wood-like” and “coconut”) will be present in each of the oaks.
The higher the toast, the more spice and smoke notes will be present.
The deeper the toast, the more deep the caramel tones will be (moving into butterscotch at medium plus).
Vanilla will increase up through a medium-plus toast and then decrease with a heavy toast and char.
American oak will be more aromatic, but French oak will give more structure (Hungarian will give less than the French but more than the American).
The greater the toast level, the lower the lactones (“wood” and “coconut”) for all three woods.
Medium plus is the most complex of all of the toast levels, and the most popular.


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## wineforfun (Apr 11, 2013)

It would appear that French is what I am looking for. I want a little "body/flavor" added but not that harsh/bitterness that comes with some oak wines I have tasted.


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## Julie (Apr 11, 2013)

wineforfun said:


> It would appear that French is what I am looking for. I want a little "body/flavor" added but not that harsh/bitterness that comes with some oak wines I have tasted.


 
Also, oak seems to be a little on the harsh side at first but once the wine ages that harshness goes away.


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