# Vac degassing is the way to go.



## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

I'm trying to clear my SP as much as possible so I degassed with a wand on a drill. I thought it was good.

The other day, I added Sparkolloid.. it cleared pretty good after 2 days, but there was a slight haze.. I also read that if there was any gas in the wine, it might make it harder to clear..

Now comes the vacuum pump.. so I've got an HVAC pump... after speaking with a member here, I rigged it up ... I tested it last week and it worked well.. I went ahead and decided to do what would happen on a wine that was already degassed with a drill attached wand.

Look at this..


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## fsa46 (Oct 9, 2019)

Did you degas with the vacuum pump until there were no more bubbles ?


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## ThunderFred (Oct 9, 2019)

Try splash racking under vacuum. It's a game changer.


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## Johnd (Oct 9, 2019)

Been vacuum degassing nearly my entire winemaking career, it's the only way to go............


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## fsa46 (Oct 9, 2019)

Johnd said:


> Been vacuum degassing nearly my entire winemaking career, it's the only way to go............



Do you degas until there's no more bubbles ?


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## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

fsa46 said:


> Do you degas until there's no more bubbles ?



Yes, when I degassed with the wand and drill, I had degassed till I didn't see any more bubbles. That was like a week ago before I added the Sparkolloid. Since adding it, the SP cleared pretty quick, like 2 days, but there's like this slight haze that won't go away, so I went ahead with the vac pump.. and dang, it pulls even more CO2. But it seems like it's endless becasue I don't have much head space and I didn't want to crank her up.

I did stop the vac pump after about an hour, but it was still pulling gas, though at a lower rate. Made me think that it was evaporating the alcohol out of it.


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## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

fsa46 said:


> Did you degas with the vacuum pump until there were no more bubbles ?


No. I had it under vacuum for an hour and there was still bubbles coming up. It felt like I was gasifying the alcohol.


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## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

ThunderFred said:


> Try splash racking under vacuum. It's a game changer.



ok... I understand it's under vacuum, but what are the odds of possibly oxygenating the wine?

If there's no chance, I might give it a try tonight to rack it off the sediment.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 9, 2019)

crabjoe said:


> ok... I understand it's under vacuum, but what are the odds of possibly oxygenating the wine?
> 
> If there's no chance, I might give it a try tonight to rack it off the sediment.



oxygenate = good
oxidize = bad 
But if you still pulling co2 then chances are slim to none you’ll hurt it. 

For what it’s worth I racked a wine last night that is 1.5yrs old, and has always been vacuum splash racked. And wouldn’t ya know- a nice 3/4” cap of co2 fizz formed under vacuum. Just to say don’t stress getting every last bit of co2 manually. It’s an uphill battle. And not necessarily a bad thing at all. 
But when using the best trick of the trade - TIME- all these things like co2 and clearing tend to take care of themselves.


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## Johnd (Oct 9, 2019)

fsa46 said:


> Do you degas until there's no more bubbles ?



No. When you start the vacuum, you’ll get millions of tiny, foamy bubbles, and may need to switch the pump on and off to avoid sucking up foam. Once the tiny bubbles give way to the larger bubbles, run 20 - 30 more seconds and you’re done.


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## fsa46 (Oct 9, 2019)

Thanks everyone.


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## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

Johnd said:


> No. When you start the vacuum, you’ll get millions of tiny, foamy bubbles, and may need to switch the pump on and off to avoid sucking up foam. Once the tiny bubbles give way to the larger bubbles, run 20 - 30 more seconds and you’re done.



Ok, now that makes sense. Because I felt like I the pump was now extracting the alcohol as a gas..


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## mhopkins (Oct 10, 2019)

Johnd said:


> Been vacuum degassing nearly my entire winemaking career, it's the only way to go............



@Johnd, What kind of equipment/system do you use to degass? I have been degassing manually (drill and wand) which is sufficient for my whites and fruit wines. But reds ... well that's another story. Ready to give vacuum degassing a try. Thanks for any advice. Mark


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## Johnd (Oct 10, 2019)

mhopkins said:


> @Johnd, What kind of equipment/system do you use to degass? I have been degassing manually (drill and wand) which is sufficient for my whites and fruit wines. But reds ... well that's another story. Ready to give vacuum degassing a try. Thanks for any advice. Mark



This is the one that I have been using:

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-61245.html


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## fsa46 (Oct 10, 2019)

Johnd said:


> This is the one that I have been using:
> 
> https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-61245.html



Yup, That's the one I use John.


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## Johnd (Oct 10, 2019)

fsa46 said:


> Yup, That's the one I use John.



I've got mine outfitted with a vacuum pressure valve to monitor the vacuum, and a reservoir between the pump and the carboy to catch any foam that gets sucked up into the lines. Works like a dream.........


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## mhopkins (Oct 10, 2019)

Johnd said:


> I've got mine outfitted with a vacuum pressure valve to monitor the vacuum, and a reservoir between the pump and the carboy to catch any foam that gets sucked up into the lines. Works like a dream.........



Very helpful!
"I've got mine outfitted with a vacuum pressure valve to monitor the vacuum," What pressures do you watch for?


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## Johnd (Oct 10, 2019)

mhopkins said:


> Very helpful!
> "I've got mine outfitted with a vacuum pressure valve to monitor the vacuum," What pressures do you watch for?



I don't really worry about limiting the pressure based upon the readings, more upon the action of the wine. When you first click your pump on a wine that hasn't been degassed at all, CO2 comes flying out of the wine and makes a lot of foam, it gets clicked off before it starts sucking foam out of the carboy, then the foam subsides. That action is repeated in succession until the CO2 is removed the point where the pump can run continuously and the little bubbles give way to the big bubbles, no foam is present, and that's when it's done. At the ending stage, the reading is approaching 29 inHg..........that normally only takes a few minutes.


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## 1d10t (Oct 10, 2019)

I happen to have HVAC gauges and they are useful in limiting the initial vacuum to control foaming. I probably wouldn't buy them for this if I didn't have them though.


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## mhopkins (Oct 10, 2019)

Johnd said:


> I don't really worry about limiting the pressure based upon the readings, more upon the action of the wine. When you first click your pump on a wine that hasn't been degassed at all, CO2 comes flying out of the wine and makes a lot of foam, it gets clicked off before it starts sucking foam out of the carboy, then the foam subsides. That action is repeated in succession until the CO2 is removed the point where the pump can run continuously and the little bubbles give way to the big bubbles, no foam is present, and that's when it's done. At the ending stage, the reading is approaching 29 inHg..........that normally only takes a few minutes.



Thanks ... very helpful! Mark


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## fsa46 (Oct 10, 2019)

This is interesting. After learning the hard way the first time , ( sucking wine into my vacuum pump ) I now leave a large head space and don't have any issues with foam or liquid going into the pump. I also don't have any gauges on the system. 

The only thing I'm going to do eventually is put a relief valve in line to relieve the pressure when I'm finished. When I break the seal from the stopper when finished the wine does have a violent reaction unless I can do it gently.


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## Johnd (Oct 10, 2019)

fsa46 said:


> This is interesting. After learning the hard way the first time , ( sucking wine into my vacuum pump ) I now leave a large head space and don't have any issues with foam or liquid going into the pump. I also don't have any gauges on the system.
> 
> The only thing I'm going to do eventually is put a relief valve in line to relieve the pressure when I'm finished. When I break the seal from the stopper when finished the wine does have a violent reaction unless I can do it gently.



You already have a built in relief valve on your pump. Use the second port like a relief valve, just slowly loosen the cap and it will allow air back into the system slowly. I use that second cap when I start vacuum degassing a fresh wine to regulate the vacuum pressure down, which keeps the CO2 from coming out too quickly, it reduces the foam issue.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 10, 2019)

I made a liquid-separating reservoir out of a Mason jar, with hose barbs through the lids. Steve (All in One) makes a reservoir kit that allows you to use a wine bottle as a reservoir. (https://www.allinonewinepump.com/pr...-vacuum-reservoir-kit-precision-vacuum-valve/)


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## fsa46 (Oct 10, 2019)

Johnd said:


> You already have a built in relief valve on your pump. Use the second port like a relief valve, just slowly loosen the cap and it will allow air back into the system slowly. I use that second cap when I start vacuum degassing a fresh wine to regulate the vacuum pressure down, which keeps the CO2 from coming out too quickly, it reduces the foam issue.



Thank you so much John. I can't believe I didn't think of that. I also like the tip on regulating the pressure at the start. Two great tips that will make life a lot easier from now on.


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## Arne (Oct 11, 2019)

If you use hvac guages, there is a vac. guage you can purchase that just screws into one of the guage ports. Johnstone supply carries them as well as a bunch of other places, most likely. Arne.


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 11, 2019)

After Wine Maker conference this year I switched my mind set to a reductive atmosphere (ie CO2) acts to protect the wine, yes it is good to pull enough to clean the carbonic notes off the flavor but having some is beneficial.


Ajmassa said:


> oxidize = bad . . . . . Just to say don’t stress getting every last bit of co2 manually. It’s an uphill battle. And not necessarily a bad thing at all.. . . the best trick of the trade - TIME.


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 11, 2019)

There are several $20, 12 volt vacuum pumps on Amazon. You have the choice of going high volume or low liters per minute. Mine was off the shelf at American Scientific in town.
Most of my racking is at 5 inches Hg vacuum. When I do vacuum corking I run it up to 20 inches. For me most applications do not take a high volume pump. Yes as noted by johnd a trap is important, hate to say it but in the learning days I pulled foam into the pump.


mhopkins said:


> @Johnd, What kind of equipment/system do you use to degass?[/,QUOTE]


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