# training system ?



## richiev (Jan 20, 2020)

I ordered a few different variety of vines Saturday. Cayuga White, Marquis. Their suggested training system is Mid wire cordon, and the mod. Munson. All the other vines I ordered use the top wire cordon. My question is, do I have to use what is suggested or could I use the top wire cordon for all of them? If I did use the TWC for the Cayuga White, and the Marquis, would there be any Ill affect? Thanks for the reply's.


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## srcorndog (Jan 20, 2020)

VSP is the easiest to trim and pick the Modified Munson will increase your yield. You will have to consider your spray program the VSP is the most common trellis system. I have both my vigorous vines are on Geneva Double Curtain my other vines are on VSP. You have to make up your mind which system you want to work and maintain.


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## srcorndog (Jan 20, 2020)

VSP is the easiest to trim and pick the Modified Munson will increase your yield. You will have to consider your spray program the VSP is the most common trellis system. I have both my vigorous vines are on Geneva Double Curtain my other vines are on VSP. You have to make up your mind which system you want to work and maintain.


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## srcorndog (Jan 20, 2020)

VSP is the easiest to trim and pick the Modified Munson will increase your yield. You will have to consider your spray program the VSP is the most common trellis system. I have both my vigorous vines are on Geneva Double Curtain my other vines are on VSP. You have to make up your mind which system you want to work and maintain.


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## srcorndog (Jan 20, 2020)

VSP is the easiest to trim and pick the Modified Munson will increase your yield. You will have to consider your spray program the VSP is the most common trellis system. I have both my vigorous vines are on Geneva Double Curtain my other vines are on VSP. You have to make up your mind which system you want to work and maintain.


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## salcoco (Jan 20, 2020)

TWC will work for all. the trick is to insure that there is sufficient sunlight to cause full ripeness. some grapes have a tendency to grow upright thus VSP while other tend to grow downward thus TWC. they all can be made to go TWC. some summer pruning and trellising will be required to insure growtn downward as well as proper sunlight penetration.


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## richiev (Jan 21, 2020)

There are many young boys playing games, all around the neighborhood,and into the night during the summer months. I can still remember, knocking myself off of a bicycle as a youngster. I hit a cloth clothing line, it broke, and I went flying. Can't image if it were wire. I can see where the Modified Munson, could produce a bigger yield, but I would like to keep to one system. Growing grapevine is very new to me, and just wanted to know if there would be any detrimental harm to the vines. I could still change the variety.


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## countygrapeguy (Jan 21, 2020)

Any thoughts on using Umbrella Kniffin? I planted a bunch of hybrids last year (and more to come this year) and was planning to use Umbrella Kniffin based on some Northern Grapes Project trials (http://northerngrapesproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Marquette-Training-Trials.pdf & http://northerngrapesproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/NyFrontTrain.pdf)

The attraction is that it seems like somewhat less work than TWC, and substantially less than VSP with similar results.


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## richiev (Feb 7, 2020)

countygrapeguy said:


> Any thoughts on using Umbrella Kniffin? I planted a bunch of hybrids last year (and more to come this year) and was planning to use Umbrella Kniffin based on some Northern Grapes Project trials (http://northerngrapesproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Marquette-Training-Trials.pdf & http://northerngrapesproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/NyFrontTrain.pdf)
> 
> The attraction is that it seems like somewhat less work than TWC, and substantially less than VSP with similar results.


Thanks for the info.


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## montanarick (Feb 10, 2020)

I'm sure you're gonna get as many answers as there are grape varieties. I have Marquette, Frontenac Blanc, Frontenac Gris, Frontenac Noir and Petite Pearl. I originally went with TWC for everything. Then tried 4-arm Kniffen. I have found that the Marquette and to a lesser degree the Frontenacs are way too vigorous (at least in my vineyard) for 4-arm completely shading the lower wire canes. The Petite Pearl do very well on 4-arm system since their vigor is slow. This past fall after vines went dormant, I cut all the Marquette and Frontenac back to VSP which I think will be much more manageable than TWC or 4-arm Kniffen. This year's harvest will tell for sure.


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