# Malolactic bacteria question



## orto (Sep 8, 2016)

Hello,
I had planed on doing a kit before jumping into grapes, but when I went to the local place they had grapes so I jumped in. I got 3 boxes of Lodi zin and crushed them by hand, (I don't want to do that again). I added Lallzyme EX, 
the next morning I added Tannin FT Rouge, and Booster Rouge. I re hydrated Rockpile yeast in Go Ferm and added it. On the second day of active fermentation I added Fermaid k. Everything seems to be working well. in a day or 2 I will be squeezing it with a sanitized pillow case. 

So here is the question after squeezing I will add Viniflora CH16, However The packet says it is for 66 gallons and says "respect correct dosage use" on it, it feels like it contains about a gram of powder. I will have about 7 gallons how can I possibly "respect correct dosage use". How should I use it? 
Thanks Dave


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## JohnT (Sep 8, 2016)

I do not think that adding too much starting culture will really cause any harm, however I do not think you need the whole packet and I would think about using only a portion of it. 

Do you have a scale that measures out partial grams? if not, I would simply try to eye-ball taking about 1/4 of it or so (just to ensure that you have a proper starting culture).


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 8, 2016)

I've always used a whole packet - usually on anywhere from 12-30 gallons. From what I've read, there's no harm in that. But now I'm wondering about that notice on the packet.

Sounds like your ferment is moving along nicely. Instead of using a pillow case, head to your nearest 'big box' store and get some paint strainer bags. I think your pillow case will block up and make 'pressing' very challenging.


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## Johnd (Sep 8, 2016)

orto said:


> So here is the question after squeezing I will add Viniflora CH16, However The packet says it is for 66 gallons and says "respect correct dosage use" on it, it feels like it contains about a gram of powder. I will have about 7 gallons how can I possibly "respect correct dosage use". How should I use it?
> Thanks Dave



I also do the same as Jim, use the whole packet. Once you open it, you can't "save the rest for later". Since it's $30 + per package, and it's good for 10 or 11 carboys of wine, I do the best I can to time my additions so that I can mix up the starter and dispense the mixed liquid with a graduated syringe into the different carboys.

FWIW, just a point to consider regarding timing of adding your MLB. If you add it right after pressing, within a few days you'll have a considerable layer of gross lees in your vessel, and won't want to leave the wine on those while MLF goes on for several months. Although some MLB will be in suspension, some is also present in the lees you'll be racking off of, and you'll be leaving it behind. Consider waiting a couple of days after pressing, rack off of your gross lees, (AF will still be going on) add your MLB nutrients and MLB culture, and you'll be in pretty good shape for the entire MLF process.


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## orto (Sep 8, 2016)

I know this might sound crazy but how does this idea sound. since its a big mostly empty package, if I shake the powder until roughly half is on each side. I could use impulse seal down the center of the packet then cut off one side and still have the other half unopened.


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## orto (Sep 8, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Instead of using a pillow case, head to your nearest 'big box' store and get some paint strainer bags. I think your pillow case will block up and make 'pressing' very challenging.


 This makes sense I was looking at the pillow case last night and thinking it might clog, Thanks


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## Johnd (Sep 8, 2016)

orto said:


> I know this might sound crazy but how does this idea sound. since its a big mostly empty package, if I shake the powder until roughly half is on each side. I could use impulse seal down the center of the packet then cut off one side and still have the other half unopened.



I gotta say, I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work, that's a really good idea............ Even if you don't get it divided perfectly, it'll be way more than you need for one carboy anyway, could cut your MLB expenses in half if it works out. I wish they'd just package it in smaller packages already......


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## JohnT (Sep 8, 2016)

Johnd said:


> I gotta say, I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work, that's a really good idea............ Even if you don't get it divided perfectly, it'll be way more than you need for one carboy anyway, could cut your MLB expenses in half if it works out. I wish they'd just package it in smaller packages already......


 
+1.. Especially since the MLB will keep for a year in the freezer....


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## orto (Sep 9, 2016)

Would it be ok to do MLF in a Speidel fermentor? If active MLF is happening is the head space an issue?
Thanks


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## cmason1957 (Sep 9, 2016)

orto said:


> Would it be ok to do MLF in a Speidel fermentor? If active MLF is happening is the head space an issue?
> Thanks



Active MLF is nothing like the yeast fermentation. I always make sure things are topped up, it doesn't give off very much CO2.


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## orto (Sep 9, 2016)

I just finished pressing it, the home depot nylon bags worked perfectly. It filled a 30l Speidel almost to the brim. My hands are purple, and it tastes really rough right now, acidic, bitter and not much else.


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## skeenatron (Sep 14, 2016)

How does it look Dave? I use CH16 on a commercial level every year and it's a very strong MLF bacteria. I love it. When dosing for only 7 gallons you only need about a 10th of what's provided in that 66 gallon packet. It doesn't keep until next harvest reliably after you open it so you may as well be a little liberal with your dose. Don't totally overdo it though. A high cell count of nutrient starved bacteria in your wine isn't going to help anything. Keeping the wine within the recommended temperature range however, is the #1 priority. That bacteria will do its job very neat and quickly if you can get the actual wine (not the environment it's store in) between 62F and 77F.

Tyler


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## orto (Sep 15, 2016)

I pitched the bacteria with opti-malo after transferring off the sludge. It already tasted better, hot, and acidic but better. No signs of any fermentation yet though. The ph is 3.57. Titrets say it has 40 ppm SO2, but I am not sure if I believe them. I will test the TA tonight. splitting the package of bacteria seems to have worked fine, I considered trying to split it 4 ways but didn't want to press my luck, and I'm glad I didn't, I doubt I could have spread it to each side evenly.


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