# Underground Recipe Feedback?



## Gracie (May 22, 2014)

I posted in Introductions that I'm making wine in a place where it's... Um... Illegal. The guy who taught me how to do it passed on the recipe he'd tinkered with for years. So I've been doing it backwards, just following this recipe without really knowing many of the hows or whys of what it is I'm doing. Now I hope to really start learning the craft. Meanwhile, I'd appreciate any feedback on his/my/our underground recipe. It makes a respectable plonk, but could stand some improvement.

6 Gallons (red)

23 liters red grape juice (fruit is too expensive and labor intensive here)
4 1/2 C sugar
1 TBSP yeast nutrient
2 tsp acid blend
1 tsp grape tannins
1 package Montrachet wine yeast.

At the end of the first week I move it to a secondary vessel and add my Campden tablets
At the end of the second week I add my finings
At the end of the third week I add more tannins if necessary
Let it sit one more week and it's ready.

I've been doing some research and have learned just enough to thoroughly confuse me. 
Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys can offer!


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


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## cintipam (May 22, 2014)

Hi Gracie

I do understand the being confused part. There is a lot of little nuances to this craft.

To help us figure out your probable Specific Gravity would it be possible to be more specific about your grape juice? I doubt you have a hydrometer, so figuring out your SG would be a really good jumping off point for any of trying to help you with your recipe.

First reaction on my part is that the nutrient is a bit low, but you should only add nutrient for the first few days that you see active fermentation so please don't add more to stuff that has stopped fizzing along. Usual for fruit wine is 1 tsp per gallon and a TBSP is only 3 teaspoons.

If Montrachet is the only yeast you can get I understand but in a tough situation Lalvin K1118 would be my yeast of choice. Montrachet is a diva of a yeast, prone to creating the dreaded rotten egg smell of H2S if not fed on a timely schedule. I did save a note made by another WMT member that he had few problems with Montrachet as long as he kept it on the cool side during fermentation. K1118 hardly ever fails and isn't needy at all. 

Pam in cinti


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## Gracie (May 22, 2014)

Thanks Pam. I am ordering a hydrometer tonight. A huge problem is that the juices available here are all over the board in their sugar content. Today I found apple juice that ranged from 17g of sugar - 46g of sugar (per serving? per liter? I can't remember and I'm not home to look at the containers, but you get the wild variation). And in any market I might have 6 liters of one brand available, 13 liters of another, and 4 liters of a third brand. I've never lost a batch yet (well... one, but that was a citrus using fresh fruit, and it just never fermented), but the quality and flavor varies wildly as you can imagine.

I do have some Lalvin yeast in a package of additives I inherited from my mentor. I'll use that next time. Not sure of the numbers on it (K1118?). The package is gray.

So I'll double the yeast nutrient then. 

If I am making a white is everything the same, or should I be adjusting further? White wine is like gold here because for some reason the stores almost never have white grape juice.


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## cintipam (May 22, 2014)

Hi Gracie

go for 1 1/2 tblsp, if possible put 1/2 of that in at the start, wait about 1 1/2 days then add the rest. Too much isn't good for the wine either.

I get your point about the sugar. I'm glad you are getting a hydrometer. They do break easily, so be careful. I actually keep mine in the plastic sleeve I test the must in to help keep it safe. Without knowing the SG you can't really know how strong your wine will be, and it helps to keep it at certain levels, esp if you are drinking it young. My first attempts at wine I used 3 diff kinds of Ocean Spray juices in gallon jugs. Each of those gallons needed just about 2 c of sugar to reach the 1.090 point. The best was cranberry no sugar added variety. The regular Ocean Spray Cranberry and Crangrape took a lot longer to start fermenting. Folks who know told me that cranberries and blueberries both have a chemical already in them (benzoate) that inhibits fermentation. So when buying juices try to avoid benzoate. Some also say metabisulphite as a preservative, but if you shake them up real good a couple times a day for a day or two (mixing in air) that stuff will go away and you'll have no trouble fermenting the juice. Best preservatives are Absorbic acid or of course no preservatives if you can find it.

Red wine most folks shoot for 1.090 SG, white usually 1.085. Generally folks do not add tannin into white wines. For white wine I would use Lalvin D-47 yeast if you can get it. 1118 will work, but you'll lose a lot of the nose from the delicate white wine. D47 takes longer to start to ferment, but don't let that worry you. It will start, and it should make a much better white wine. Keep white wine cooler during ferment too if you can. 

Hope this helps

Pam in cinti


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## cintipam (May 22, 2014)

Thought it would be easier on you if I said put 2 rounded tsps nutrient in at start, another rounded 2 tsps about 1 1/2 -2 days after fermentation starts.

Also D-47 takes about 1-2 days longer than K1118 to start. Check your expiration dates on yeast, and keep them in the fridge if possible.

I just finished my wine chores for today. I am so grateful to have all my tools and toys here. And all my white wine, since that is my favorite.

Pam in cinti


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## Gracie (May 22, 2014)

Thanks Pam, that's very helpful! I'm going on the hunt for some more white grape juice tomorrow, and my hydrometer should be in the mail in the next day!

Also, is there a different way to sort threads in this forum? Like can I sort them by newest first, etc? right now it's all in alphabetical order and it took me a long time to locate this thread to check for replies. TIA


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## sour_grapes (May 23, 2014)

At the top of the page, just to the right of the search box, there is a button marked "Today's posts" that will search for the newest posts.  The one next to it is similar, and will show you only your unread posts.


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## salcoco (May 24, 2014)

if you want a white wine try apple juice. not all wines need to be made from grape juice. another is frozen white grape juice which is primarily Niagara grape.


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## Gracie (May 24, 2014)

Thank you so much Paul, that makes it easier.

Salcoco, I'm glad to hear that. I just put 5 gallons of Apple wine to bed 2 days ago.

I'm wondering what lychee juice would be like? Lord, we have it coming out of our ears here.


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## cintipam (May 24, 2014)

Gracie, you should try the lychee. It might be fabulous. But you'll need to get some pectic enzyme to put on the fruit to start it breaking down. Do that at least a full 24 hrs before you toss in the yeast as fermentation deactivates the PE. If you don't have Potassium Metabisulphite you should get some of that too as you need to kill any wild yeasties that might be on the fruit before you put your yeast in. That also takes a full day so most folks put all the cut up or smashed fruit in an unused but sanitized nylon knee high, tie the top, add fluid (can be fruit juice to make final product more flavorable) etc into the fermenter add PE and Kmeta, wait 24 hrs then toss in the yeast and nutrient.

I do appreciate that Paul answered your question since I use a diff program and mine is nothing like that at all. 

Pam in cinti


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## Gracie (May 25, 2014)

I do have Kmeta, but the lychee we have here is 100% juice, pasteurized. The logistics of using whole fruit here are prohibitive. As soon as my hydrometer gets here I'll try my hand at a gallon.


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