# Same Wine, 2 different Tastes



## Flame145 (Feb 3, 2011)

I am wondering why I have 2 of the same wines, made from the same original batch. The difference is that I have 1 in a 53 gallon Oak barrel and the other is in a 5 gallons carboy. 
Both wines have been through cold stabilization. But I find it unusual that the wine from my 5 gallon carboy tastes alot smoother and just plain better that the wine in my wood barrel. The wine in the wood barrel still tastes a little harsh.
Do you think this is because the smaller batch of wine is maturing quicker ?
Just wondering what some thoughts are on this. 

Oddly enough the 53 gallons barrel would have the free run juice and the 5 gallon carboy has the pressed juice. I thought that this should be in reverse.


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## robie (Feb 3, 2011)

Here I am just guessing.
Maybe the small batch froze while in cold stabilization. That will make a young wine age quicker and smooth it out "much" faster.

Or it may have something to do with batch sizes.

Funny, but the batch in the barrel should have received more (micro) oxygenation than the carboy's, so based only on that, it should also be smoother than the carboy's.

I said all this to say, "I have no clue."

Regardless, I am interested, so keep us informed as to what you find.


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## Flame145 (Feb 3, 2011)

No the 5 gallon carboy didn't freeze during cold stabilization. I was checking every day. I cold stabilized the 5 gallon carboy for 2 weeks, and I did the barrel for 4 weeks. 
None of this makes sense on how the 5 gallon batch just tastes so much more mellow and smoother. I'm think maybe the smaller size just matures quicker, don't know, I'm also guessing.
This wine was made in September 2010. I bottled the 5 gallon carboy; I know its young but I'm out of wine. I did add Sorbate to the 5 gallon carboy, because I was bottling it very young and I didn't want to start popping corks. I wonder if the Sorbate made the diffenece in taste ???? Again just a guess I'm not sure either.


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## Dirtydog420 (Feb 4, 2011)

Wouldnt the harshness really be coming from the oak barrel? You have one in oak and one in glass.. The oak is going to add 'harshness' that will mellow over time and the oak adds flavors to the wine.. THe reason for using oak is to add those characteristics into the wine. If too harsh I would bottle now.. If bottled, wait, drink the carboy wine first a I bet the oaked wine will be the best in another 6 months to year..


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## Flame145 (Feb 4, 2011)

Dirtydog420 said:


> Wouldnt the harshness really be coming from the oak barrel? You have one in oak and one in glass.. The oak is going to add 'harshness' that will mellow over time and the oak adds flavors to the wine.. THe reason for using oak is to add those characteristics into the wine. If too harsh I would bottle now.. If bottled, wait, drink the carboy wine first a I bet the oaked wine will be the best in another 6 months to year..



I wouldn't think so. The barrel is going on its 5th year. Although I do think it will smooth out with more time, as the wine is young, it was only made Sept. 2010. My thought is the size difference and how that effects maturing the wine. I still just guessing, just was wondering if anyone else had any similar expierences.


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## AlFulchino (Feb 4, 2011)

are you positive that the barrel was fully sanitized? this could be your cause...however, i, too, am of the opinion that if it was sanitized then the issue is the oaking....so you say that it is going on its fifth yr..is it now a neutral barrel, or is it still delivering? if it is still delivering oak then it does take time to integrate....how many wines have been in this barrel and for how long (each vintage) what type of oak is it?


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## Flame145 (Feb 4, 2011)

AlFulchino said:


> are you positive that the barrel was fully sanitized? this could be your cause...however, i, too, am of the opinion that if it was sanitized then the issue is the oaking....so you say that it is going on its fifth yr..is it now a neutral barrel, or is it still delivering? if it is still delivering oak then it does take time to integrate....how many wines have been in this barrel and for how long (each vintage) what type of oak is it?



Yes, the barrel was thoroughly sanitized and it was only empty for 1 month.
I don't know what this was called but I added oak using a silicone bung that had a stainless steel corrugated tube attached to the bung from the bottom. The tube itself is approximately 1 1/2 inch diameter and about 20" inches long. I knew the barrel would be neutral so that why I added through this cylinder. I added medium toast american white oak cubes, and I oaked for approximately 2 1/2 months. I removed when I just racked my barrel about 3 weeks ago. Now I just have a regular silicone solid bung.
The wine doesn't taste off, it just tastes like the 5 gallon carboy 2 months ago. It seems like it is maturing in slow motion. Just wondering why????? Like I said above my guess would be that smaller amounts mature quicker, but that just is a flat out guess.
Wine typically stays in the barrel for a full year until the next crush. Just prior to crushing we bottle. The barrel is a Kelvin Cooperage, medium toast, american white oak


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## AlFulchino (Feb 4, 2011)

cubes can take a while to deliver the goods...and the first of what they deliver tends to be a bit on the harsh side....2.5 months probably was long enough BUT not always...additionally since the oaking was not from all sides like w a barrel it will take some time for the oaking to move thru the wine....the racking should help mix things a bit....report in w this in a couple of months


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## Flame145 (Feb 4, 2011)

Ok, thanks. I feel pretty confident that it will be fine with some time. I will definitely report back after next racking. Thanks again.


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## Flame145 (Mar 1, 2011)

AlFulchino said:


> cubes can take a while to deliver the goods...and the first of what they deliver tends to be a bit on the harsh side....2.5 months probably was long enough BUT not always...additionally since the oaking was not from all sides like w a barrel it will take some time for the oaking to move thru the wine....the racking should help mix things a bit....report in w this in a couple of months



OK Al, just opened the barrel today to top off. I usually do this once a month. The wine seems to be alot smoother than last time. I find it funny how things can change over night. I am going to continue bulk aging til September, then bottle and get ready for the new harvest. I am pleased with the taste and know things are gonna just get better with time. Thanks again for your help. Bryan


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## winemaker_3352 (Mar 1, 2011)

I would imagine the tannins from the oak are giving it the harshness - it will mellow out over time.


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