# Petite Sirah with high PH



## geek (Jan 27, 2016)

Some of you may recall this PS I started in the fall from fresh grapes, where brix were in the roof.

Although MLF did not show complete, I racked the wine into the 23L Vadai along with some dose of k-meta (did not want to wait longer on MLF as it was approaching 3 months and showing half way done).

The PH is high, measured in the barrel at around 3.89.
Also, It does not taste bad, no off flavors at all, but I taste some sweetness 

Measured SG recently and it came right at 0.998
Starting SG ~1.100 and Brix=29.5, brix was brought down to planet earth with acidulated water.

I pressed at ~1.000, racked and then started MLF one day after re-racking again. 
My notes say PH=3.86, TA ~0.8x before pitching MLF.

I know I could try blending with a wine with lower PH but have limited options now in bulk age for a good blend, but open to opinions. Other available wines in bulk age, all went through MLF:

-MM Amarone from juice bucket
-Sangiovese blend with cab and merlot (60/30/10)
-2nd run from above Sangio blend
-cab sav and merlot blend

Since this PS is so unique in color, the darkest wine I've EVER seen, I am thinking I should not blend but try to fix the wine itself and not risk my other stable wines.

Questions (and I know I should check the TA again):
-is the sweetness I taste due to the high PH, assuming that the TA "should" be low, or a combination of high PH and SG at 0.998 (not too dry SG)?
-tartaric acid is still the best way to go to bring the PH down and NOT acid blend?
I could swear that I also smell some sweetness or jammy smell (not bad smell at all).


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## ibglowin (Jan 27, 2016)

Rerun all numbers with good chems. Recheck SG. Calibrate your hydrometer with distilled water to see how close it is. If they stay the same especially the TA I would be inclined to leave it alone or blend it with the cab merlot if that is lower in pH. If you add any acid make sure to only use tartaric and NEVER acid blend . Acid blend is ONLY for country wines. And do a bench trial. Too much acid and you will get a tart wine and have another problem on your hand. There are plenty of PS's out there on the shelves that have numbers close to that. It is tough to get good numbers with that grape especially from warm AVA's. Just one of the reason's its used more often than not as a blending wine.


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## GreginND (Jan 27, 2016)

The perception of sweetness may be due to the presence of ripe fruity esters rather than sugar. These grapes seem to have been quite ripe, so it isn't too surprising. Though, you might have a bit of residual sugar left at 0.998. The high alcohol likely will prevent further fermentation.

Before you do any adjusting . . . your TA is on the higher side for a ripe PS. I don't think I would really adjust anything. But, it depends on taste. Aside from sweetness that you perceive -- does it taste flat (low acid) or tangy (higher acid)? If you don't get too flat or too tangy for your palate, then adjusting the acid will only throw it out of balance.

Do not add acid blend. The citric acid can be metabolized by ML bacteria and produce acetic acid. Only use tartaric to adjust if you need to.


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## JohnT (Jan 28, 2016)

My advice is that it is time for a bench trial. 

If your wine does have some residual sugar, upping the acid could make the wine taste less sweet. 

Try taking a sample, up its acid, and taste.. 

I would not try to blend the wine until you do the above bench trial.


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## geek (Jan 28, 2016)

Thanks guys, I will check all number again either tonight or tomorrow and report back.
The wine does not taste or smell bad at all but I thought the sweetness perception may be due to an actual low acid reading with that high PH.

My other wines listed are not low in PH but if I remember they're in balance, so I don't want to blend, at least for now.
I will let you know the numbers, will be testing the TA with my PH55 meter and .02 solution.

Thanks for chiming in...wish we were closer to trade a bottle of this...


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## geek (Jan 29, 2016)

Mike,

How do you calibrate your PH meter, never done mine, just put in distilled water and let it read 1.000?

I don't have distiller water but just spring water, so need to go to store and buy a gallon.
Can I just boil spring water?


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 29, 2016)

geek said:


> Mike,
> 
> How do you calibrate your PH meter, never done mine, just put in distilled water and let it read 1.000?
> 
> ...



Your meter should have come with instructions on how to calibrate. But you need some calibration solution - usually 4.01pH and 7.01pH. First test is to see if it is reading those properly. If not, calibrate it.


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## cmason1957 (Jan 29, 2016)

A good first test of calibration is reading 7.00 in distilled water. Boiling water will not distill it. You have to catch that water vapor coming off and let it condense of to distill it.


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## geek (Jan 29, 2016)

Sorry...I meant the Hydrometer..!!!


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## ibglowin (Jan 29, 2016)

LOL you sure got a way with words! You need to go to the store and buy a gallon of distilled water you can't make it by boiling it unless you are a secret chemist and have a distillation setup at your house in a closet somewhere. Its less than a $1 and you should be using it anyways to rinse off your pH meter before putting it away.

You just use it to see what your hygrometer reads in it (distilled water). It should read 1.000 if not then see what it is off by and then remember to add or subtract that amount each time. Mine read 1.002 in distilled water so when my wine says its 0.998 I know its really 0.996 etc. Its just good to know especially if you think your wine might not have finished to dry if it is off and by how much. Its a one time deal unless you break it!


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## geek (Jan 29, 2016)

That's for sure.....

I have a lot going on lately and was heading for a diagnostic at an imaging center when I quickly posted the question without realizing I said PH instead of Hydrometer......

I have the *distilled spring water* now and the hydrometer is at *~1.004* 

Wow, could it be THAT much off?

If this reading is indeed true, the SG on the wine right now is actually what, 0.994?

.


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## ibglowin (Jan 29, 2016)

Absolutely. It's a $5 piece of equipment. That little piece of paper is just sorta loose in their and could move around a bit over time. It must be *distilled* water. Thats important.


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## geek (Jan 29, 2016)

I never bought distilled water (believe it or not), the gallon reads distilled spring water, it is distilled water though.

I am trying to get an exact measurement and it is more like 1.002 when in distilled water.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 29, 2016)

Temperature can have an effect, so be aware of that...


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## geek (Jan 31, 2016)

Calibrated PH meter.
PH is the same as before 3.89
Must temp in barrel 63F

Will check TA in a bit.


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## richmke (Jan 31, 2016)

It is the change in SG that is more important than the absolute level.


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## geek (Feb 1, 2016)

Ok guys, just checked the TA using my PH meter.
It appears it is high .7 or close to .8

I added 15ml of wine, no water, into a small glass container.
Total amount of 0.2N solution added 8ml, although I over shoot and PH came up to 8.42

I know there was a small bubble in the syringe with 0.2N solution when at 8ml.

So, it seems like TA is almost .8
PH still at 3.89

Let me know if my math is correct with that PH and if so I guess I should just leave it alone.....


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## geek (Feb 1, 2016)

I meant with that TA.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 2, 2016)

If you over shot by that much, I think you should re-do the test.

I'd also do a bench trial, adding a little tartaric acid to see how that impacts the taste - especially if your TA comes in low on the 2nd test.


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## geek (Feb 2, 2016)

It is very easy to over shoot a bit when approaching the target 8.2 PH.
A bit of a drop would do it, which is what I added last to go over 8.2
I will check my notes later but I think that is the TA I started with prior to fermentation.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 2, 2016)

geek said:


> It is very easy to over shoot a bit when approaching the target 8.2 PH.
> A bit of a drop would do it, which is what I added last to go over 8.2
> I will check my notes later but I think that is the TA I started with prior to fermentation.



Generally, you want that TA between .65 and .75. So a .8, knowing you overshot seems reasonable. If comfortable with that, I'd go straight to the bench trials and see if you have any appreciable improvement with the addition of a little acid. If not, I'd just let it ride.


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## geek (Feb 20, 2016)

Just rechecked the numbers and pretty much around the same:
PH=~3.85 (a tiny bit less)
TA=~.8

As before, used 15ml of wine (no water) and added around 8ml of 0.2N solution to come up close to a PH of 8.2

Will do a small bench trial with tartaric acid.


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## geek (Feb 20, 2016)

Checking my notes, and to my surprise, these numbers have not really changed at all, this specific note was prior to MLF:

*
Sept 26* SG ~1.000	racked, pressed and let it sit in bucket for a few hours until later in the night. PH=3.86, TA ~0.8x

.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 21, 2016)

geek said:


> Checking my notes, and to my surprise, these numbers have not really changed at all, this specific note was prior to MLF:
> 
> *
> Sept 26* SG ~1.000	racked, pressed and let it sit in bucket for a few hours until later in the night. PH=3.86, TA ~0.8x
> ...



Hard to test pH, I think, while it is fermenting.


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## geek (Feb 22, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Hard to test pH, I think, while it is fermenting.



I know, but alcoholic fermentation was almost done 1.000


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## ibglowin (Feb 22, 2016)

But at that point its loaded up with CO2 which will skew your number until the CO2 is degassed.



geek said:


> I know, but alcoholic fermentation was almost done 1.000


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## geek (Mar 10, 2016)

Racked this wine out of the Vadai barrel after close to 3 months.
Used about 3 bottles of a cab/Merlot blend I made from juice a couple years ago to top off 6gal carboy, and stirred well.
PH came down a bit to ~3.79 range.

Before topping off I tasted this PS and it has a bite, I think a bit astringent and assume the high acid is part of it, something like very strong tannins.
The wine is young, made in the fall, and hope it will mellow a bit with time....we'll see...


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