# Growing grapes



## Wade E (Sep 12, 2008)

Like rocky Top I am also limited to where I can grow grapes in my yard, but my deal is because of sunlight and drainage. I may have a solution but it will require me to keep control of it. If i were to grow vines on a lattice wall would I be able to keep them on 1 side without ruining them cause the other side will up against my nice neighbors driveway so he will be a little lenient but vines hanging all over his truck will not fly. Can i just clip those shoots or keep redirecting them to my side?


----------



## smurfe (Sep 12, 2008)

Wade. you can train the vines to the area you want. You can also prune them. You may affect the yield of the vine but you certainly will not kill it. When I lived in Illinois I had a small grape arbor of Concords that I kept pruned back to just the arbor. I always had massive amounts of grapes on it. This was the vines my Mom made wine from when we were kids.


----------



## Wade E (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks, I will do this next year as my wife wants to create a barrier and that gives me permission!


----------



## grapeman (Sep 13, 2008)

Wade you can do almost anything you want with grapes. They train very easily and can be pruned to stay in a certain area. The one thing they really don't like is being confined to a container. They have very spreading roots and don't respond well when put in a pot of any kind. That's not to say they won't grow a bit and stay alive, but they just don't thrive enough to grow much for grapes. For the homeowner, highest yields usually are given when grown on some type of trellis because it keeps air movement all around them, thus minimizing diseases so that they will usually bear grapes without much for sprays.


----------



## AlFulchino (Sep 13, 2008)

get a picture on here that shows the options and each pic should have a daylight/hours note next to it....you would be suprised by the answere people will have from a single picture


if it doesnt work out for you..i could have you adopt some of mine like the Highway Adoption Program !


----------



## Wade E (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks everyone. Next year it will begin.


----------



## AlFulchino (Sep 13, 2008)

go for it....if u decide u want cuttings...contact me


----------



## Wade E (Sep 13, 2008)

I dont know if I could handle cuttings, arent those harder to grow? I dont have a very green thumb at all. Either way Im gonna need some hand holding here!


----------



## Wade E (Sep 14, 2008)

When would be a good time to purchase vines and where and how deep do you till for best results or do you just dig a deep hole. I am gonna need a lot of help here and will ask questions as I think them up. As Ive said before I am no gardener.


----------



## AlFulchino (Sep 14, 2008)

the rules for cuttings 


choose the variety you want


take a cuting about 6-12 inches long/slant cut /new growth


remove the very brand new leaves and the lower leaves that will go below potting medium


place lower stem in rooting hormone...easily found at garden centers


dimple the soild w a pencil to depth of cutting and leave the one to four leaves that remain...i would say 1-3 is best...and consider trimming the size of your largest leaf to reduce transpiration


insert cutting and place in shaded area w air flow but not wind


water and monitor first few weeks for wilting


the ones that are not gonna make it will kick the bucket early on


fertilize as you see roots are developing...lightly at first then stronger...use liquid fert


there are different philosophies...but i feel that the earlier you do this in a season the more likliehod that the new growth will harden off


on the other hand...for just a few vines they are cheap enough to buy and you will gain one to two years ( no small import there!)



*Edited by: Al Fulchino *


----------



## AlFulchino (Sep 14, 2008)

one bit of *hand holding advice* that tops all others 


you can prepare the soil to make it the best in the world


you can even choose the best varieties in the world


you can build an awesome trellis w a very nice irrigation set up


you can even clear trees and other things for sun and air flow


but if you DO NOT prepare ahead of time with a spray program for the climate you are in....then you have decided to waste your time..do not let disease and insect control intimidate you....get a sprayers for your size vineyard...more than one is best...choose your weapons....even do a practice run w just water


i dont care if its organic or other types.....you WILL have issues....look into that FIRST*Edited by: Al Fulchino *


----------



## Wade E (Sep 14, 2008)

Im probably the same climate as Appleman so hopefully he can help me out with what is needed.


----------



## grapeman (Sep 14, 2008)

I agree with Al. There are probably more failed vines due to lack of disease and insect control than any other thing. We will aid you in controlling these- ewith either organic or chemical, but it is up to you to control these at appropriate times. It is fine to dream that you can get by with nothing in the east, but then you get nothing! A few appropriately applied sprays at the correct time is all that is needed.


----------



## Wade E (Sep 14, 2008)

I have no problems with spraying my vines with whatever you recommend. Im not 1 of those people that say to let nature do its thing, I want the best product that I can get out of it. Seen as how they are going to be crawling up a lattice wall would I still want them 4' apart?It basically will be a walkway with lattice roof and vines growing on both sides. I geusee I will have to work them row by row form the bottom up and then across the roof eventually right. With typical lattice, usually 2" squares, about how high will I let them get before i start training them to go verticle and what wiil be the spacing from that verticle shoot to my next verticle. Im guessing that I will have to keep the top thinned out more to let sun in as this structure will probably be about 16'-20' long. I believe I may do Cayuga unless you guys tell me its a problem child.


----------



## grapeman (Sep 14, 2008)

Probably the best way to start is to give us a sketch of the design you have in mind and then we can make some suggestion on the best way to effectively cover it with grapes. I don't see a problem with Cayuga if that is what you want. I had some today as I bottled and I must say it turned out very nice.


----------



## Wade E (Sep 14, 2008)

Me sketch? I typically design in my head as I cant draw well at all. All I can say is that it will be approx 8' tall, 16'-20 long and about 8' wide like a long lattice tunnel made out of cedar or that imitation wood looking plastic material which would probably be better since I wont have to stain it and it wont get week where the wood overlaps itself.


----------



## grapeman (Sep 14, 2008)

It sounds like it should be pretty easy to build and install. Should be a piece of cake getting the grapes to grow right over it. I would leave the top pretty open to let the grapes hang down. If you put lattice on the top, the grapes might just sit on top out of reach.


----------



## Wade E (Sep 14, 2008)

Good point and it might block too much sun also is what I was thinking. I really like the look and may think about doing lattice panels in intervals with like 1 1/2' open spaces in between for air, light, and grape picking abilities.


----------



## swillologist (Sep 14, 2008)

Wade you will have to do some pruning down the road aways. Will you be able to reach the middle of your tunnel from the top side? I know what appleman is talking about also. I had a dog run that I used grape for shade in the summer. I used tomato cage wire on it. The grapes hung down through the wire. It made them pretty easy to pick. However some still laid up on top and I had to reach up through to pick those. I thought I would give you something to think about.


----------



## Wade E (Sep 14, 2008)

Thanks Swill. Yea, after reading that which appleman posted I had to redesign it in my head. I will have to leave slots open in the roof of the the tunnel for access to the hopeful bounty.
*Edited by: wade *


----------



## OilnH2O (Sep 14, 2008)

I was in the Slovak Republic and the Ukraine a couple years ago, and many of the houses in villages had a "vinyard" covering the driveway. The lots were very narrow, maybe 25-30 feet wide, and each house was separated from its neighbor by the driveway that went into the back yard. The trellis' were very simple, 1" pipe it looked like, verticle and then across the top -- and the whole thing when leafed out looked like a carport -- only out of grapevines growing on the side, then going over the top of the driveway toward the house. 

Wade, maybe that'll make sense if you can visualize in your head!





I'll try to find some pictures and post if I do.

Dave


----------



## Wade E (Sep 14, 2008)

I always wanted a garage! Maybe I can hinge the vines!



My friend has a neighbor with what you are talking about with the pipe and everything.


----------



## RkyMtnWine (Nov 9, 2008)

Hi Al

this is good info.. I am looking for a couple wine grape cuttings... Not really concerned about the variety. I am in zone 5... very seldom will it get colder than -15... The spot I plan on putting them will be full sun. Right now all I have is a concord grape vine which did quite well. Have been searching the internet for a source... Your advise would be greatly appreciated. thanks


----------



## NorthernWinos (Nov 9, 2008)

I am not Al, but want to say....we have gotten many fruit trees, fruiting bushes and a few grapes from these folks...They are pretty reasonable and package well....Good plants!!!

http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/


----------



## AlFulchino (Nov 9, 2008)

Rocky Top.....you are more than welcome to cuttings from me when i prune late winter or early spring....but for the price...just a few bucks, i think you will be better going w the vine nurseries that way you will save an entire year or two depending on what size vines you buy.


All of my vines (1400)were purchased from Andy Farmer at Northeast Vine Supply...the quality and the service were very good...I also hear wonderful things about Double A, but i have no personal experience w them


After you settle on the varieties, run it by me and if I have any of the varieties you want, then you are MORE than welcome to my cuttings - AL


----------



## RkyMtnWine (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks for the info Al. Will do a little research on the varieties I would be interested in... Not sure if any of those suppliers would be interested in such a small order


----------



## AlFulchino (Nov 9, 2008)

what state are you in?


----------



## RkyMtnWine (Nov 9, 2008)

Colorado... Live NW of Denver. Few vineyards in west Colorado around Grand Junction.


----------



## grapeman (Nov 9, 2008)

Most of the suppliers will sell small quantities, they just charge a premium price for them. Post the varieties you think you might like. I may have a few vines to spare for the cost of shipping. They are in my nursery and were cuttings this last season. They would be rooted and would gain you a year. I have about 15 varieties in the nursery at present, about 12-1500 total. I'm not out to sell vines, but like to help others when I can.


----------



## jobe05 (Nov 9, 2008)

What Varieties do you have available Richard? And would they grow in the south? i.e. NC, Arkasas, La., Arizona, Fl.? Thats a pretty good offer.


----------



## RkyMtnWine (Nov 9, 2008)

Well... when it comes to what varieties I would be interested in opens it up to all types that would do well in this area. I really enjoy this hobby but I dont know a good wine from a bad one.I use friends to taste the wine I am brewing to let me know how it is during the process. I have a thimble of mogan david at church every sunday and thats not to bad but I need to expand my taste. So, anything but a concord grape, I have one of those.


Thanks


----------



## grapeman (Nov 9, 2008)

Do you prefer white or red wine? You will need to decide which grapes you want to grow to make wine out of.


----------



## RkyMtnWine (Nov 9, 2008)

I do prefer a white wine and I am open for suggestions on that.


----------



## grapeman (Nov 10, 2008)

St. Pepin is a great white, but needs another vine near it for pollination. LaCrosse is a sister to St. Pepin and makes a good pollinator for it. I also have Edelweiss- a heavy yielder also.


----------



## RkyMtnWine (Nov 10, 2008)

did a search on the internet.. The St Pepin sounds likewhat I am looking for... and to pollinate with the Lacrosse. Sounds perfect as I will be preparing an area for two grape vines... they will have full sun and I will be hauling in soil for the area because the ground here is clay. Did that for my other grape vine "concord" and it seems to be doing quite well.


----------



## grapeman (Nov 10, 2008)

Good job. Do your research and ground prep and you are well on your way to enjoying a small crop in a few years. Send me a PM and give me an address and then remind me towards planting time. I usually dig them in mid April. I can send bare- root to save shipping costs.


----------



## RkyMtnWine (Nov 10, 2008)

Will do... actually I attempted to send you a PM ... but it says you have exceeded the number of PM's you are allowed to recieve. Will try again at a later date... thanks


----------



## grapeman (Nov 10, 2008)

Sorry, you can try it again. My inbox was full. I thought I had room, but had a few more messages.


----------

