# sanitizing



## AAASTINKIE (May 8, 2005)

I have been sanitizing my bottles and equiptment with 1 campden tablet per gallon. When I was at the brew store I always noticed his bottles on the tree were all covered with white stuff, I asked about sanitizing and he said to use 5 campden tablets per gallon. Does that sound right to everyone? I need to use something that is no rinse as my wellwater is sometimes of questionable quality (I have special filters for my drinking water).


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## Hippie (May 8, 2005)

Yes that sounds about right.I am surprised you haven't had sanitation problems! No need to rinse off the sulphite residue, just drip dry and wipe off the white stuff from the outside of the bottles, or not, it don't hurt anything.


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## AAASTINKIE (May 9, 2005)

I always wash everything in campden before putting it away too. Also when I wash bottles and take the labels off I put the bleach right to them.


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## Hippie (May 9, 2005)

I am pretty sure bleach is a no-no in winemaking. The residue can react with corks and produce a compound called TCA, commonly known as 'cork taint'. Google it.


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## AAASTINKIE (May 16, 2005)

OK I bought a 4oz bottle of Sodium Metabisulfite yesterday and on the
bottle it says Sanitation: 2oz per gallon...that's a lot of powder, I
looked in my wine book and it said 1oz so I went with that much, I used
warm water and the fumes about clogged my lungs up, I see I need to buy
this by the pound but they didn't have any large bags. I ordered a
digital scale off ebay last night (it never stops does it?).


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## Hippie (May 16, 2005)

Nope, never.


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## geocorn (May 16, 2005)

Country,


I have heard the same about bleach, but I was reading the Texas laws on wineries and they require a chlorine sanitizer. Sulfites are not acceptable. You can count on the government to make everything more complicated than it should be. You should see the regs just for having a tasting!


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## Hippie (May 16, 2005)

But does Texas have dry counties?


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## geocorn (May 16, 2005)

We have dry areas. Sometimes it is a town or a precint or a whole county. Fortunately, last year we passed a constitutional amendment that allows wine making everywhere in Texas regardless whether it is a wet area or not.


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## greenbean (May 17, 2005)

I use bleach on a regular basis for sanitizing bottles and haven't had any problems yet.





Chris


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## Berrywine (May 17, 2005)

ditto greenbean


berry


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## AAASTINKIE (May 19, 2005)

Today I washed my equiptment in b-brite then rinsed and washed it all again in sodium metabisulfite so it was nice and clean, then I bottled beer,I also pounded the bleach to the primary when I was done with it.


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## cbwenger (Jun 2, 2005)

i use no-rinse sanitizing powder, which is a tablespoon per gallon, and it is not nearly as strong smelling (better for the lungs and nasal passages) as the straightsodium metabisulphite... for the bottles, i will rinse them out with regular well water, then soak them in a 5-6 gallon bucket filled with than sanitizer for about a minute, drain and shake, finish draing, then hang on my beautiful tree (thanks George)... no problems, and no bleach/chlorine


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## NY257121 (Jun 11, 2005)

I use bleach, postassium meta, sodium meta,C Brite. when using bleach I rinse three times with water, when using sodium meta or cC Brite once with water. Never had any problems.


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## smurfe (Nov 8, 2005)

I have read many articles that state bleach is acceptable but to make sure you use unscented bleach. Me not being a laundry expert never knew there were different types of bleach. I thought a bottle of Clorox was a bottle of Clorox.


Smurfe


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## MedPretzel (Nov 8, 2005)

I have used almost all. 


My rundown, but I am sure others can comment:


1.) One-Step - great, easy, no hassle, no rinsing necessary. If I could clean my house with it, I would.


2.) Clorox/Chlorine - just as great, but you have the extra step of rinsing out everything 2-3 times more than if you'd use the one-step.


3.) Campden tablets/K-meta - also great, but just doesn't give me the feel that I've done enough. My problem, I know. But if used in the right amounts, definitely a logical alternative.


4.) I have no experience with B-Brite, but I have heard similar reports that I have experienced with One-Step.


5.) Iodophor - Iodine: Bad staining. I've seen it used in surgeries, and nah, I wouldn't use it. Stains everything that is absorbable (skin). For beer - I dunno. I've never made beer. But wine? Stick to the other options, I would think.


6.) Boiling water: Well, great for musts (if you're infusing, etc), but for most equipment in winemaking, a little too harsh. Carboys _could_ crack, primaries could melt, racking tubes - ? - I'm not sure. There are many other (better) options than simply boiling water, in my opinion. For musts it's a different story, but for equipment I would not use it.


Those are my opinions, not the gospel-truth. Different people have different experiences, and I also would like to learn - if someone sees my opinions differently. I am welcome to discussion.









Martina*Edited by: MedPretzel *


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## Hippie (Nov 9, 2005)

"I've seen it used in surgeries, "


OIC, are you now a surgeon?


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## erk1817 (Nov 9, 2005)

Thanks for the rundown on sanitizers.Since I've learned so much from all of you about wine-making, I thought I shouldgive back: 


Betadine, the brown liquidwe rub on an area before surgery, is an iodophore with the interesting property of residual killing. The iodine lingers on the skin and continues to kill microorganisms via oxidative damage, unlike surfactants or alcohol.


Pretty gross stuff -- I'd recommend using it with wine only if you stab yourself with a broken wine glass.


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## MedPretzel (Nov 9, 2005)

Erik,


Thanks for the feedback about Iodophore.



Good to know. Just so everyone knows, I am not a surgeon, but did a 4 month rotation in Surgery, where I had to prep patients before surgery. I got the betadine (somehow, even with latex gloves) on my skin and it took forever to get off. That is why (among other reasons) I would like to go into radiology. A clean field!


Thanks for your input.



I'm glad we're back on track to the topic of Winemaking.






What wines are you currently making?


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## peterCooper (Nov 10, 2005)

Well if you're going into radiology could you just give the bottles a massive 
dose and kill everything that way? I can just see it, bottles with their little 
lead protective jackets on. Hang on, is that why we sometime see lead 
wraps on wine bottles?


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## MedPretzel (Nov 10, 2005)

Hahaha, no, they'd all have their little "Dose-meters" around their necks.


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## Hal Maulden (Nov 14, 2005)

Bleach is a huge NO NO !!!


Rinsing appropriately after using bleach is very difficult. Put some on your hands and try to wash it off!!


Using Kmeta is the accepted means. Typical solution is about 50 grams or 2 ounce per gallon. If you want to make it more effective, add about 1 tablespoon citric acid to the gallon. This solution if kept closed will last much longer that you will use it. I pour it inside my clean carboys - swish it around - and recycle it. I have never had an issue with microbial growth.


On campden tablets. They are convient to measure for wine musts, but think about it, if you use one per gallon to preserve wine, how could that be enough to sanitize? Plus, that is very expensive vs bagged Kmeta.





Hal


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## MedPretzel (Nov 14, 2005)

Thank you, Hal!


I guess it's K-meta for me then. I usually use that, but have also used Campden tablets. According to Jack Keller's Glossary of Terms: 




> <DT>_Campden Tablets:_
> <DD>Tablets used in winemaking to sanitize equipment and fermentation media and add free _SO2_ to the must or wine. When crushed and dissolved, they provide _sulfur dioxide_ (SO2) in a convenient form. Tablets must be crushed to use, but this ensures the proper dosage and assists in their dissolution. The active ingredient in Campden tablets can be purchased bulk from most winemaker suppliers under its chemical name, _potassium metabisulfite_. For sanitizing bottles, primaries, secondaries, funnels and other equipment, two crushed tablets dissolved in 1 gallon of water will suffice. Do not rinse equipment after sanitizing. For adding to _must_, use one crushed and dissolved tablet per gallon of _must_ and wait 12 hours before adding yeast. Campden tablets come in various sizes and doses, so inquire if not packaged with instructions. Most tablets are intended to dose 5 US gallons (19 liters) or 5 Imperial gallons (23 liters). Also see _Potassium Metabisulfite_ and _Sodium Metabisulfite_.




So I thought they were okay.






With the bleach: I have used that too. I have rinsed my carboys out very well afterwards, as I posted above. I have never smelled bleach in any which way or form in my wines, so I guess I did a good job rinsing. 


You learn something new everyday! I stand corrected!! Thanks again!





Martina</DD>*Edited by: MedPretzel *


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## peterCooper (Nov 15, 2005)

I use a no-rinse followed by K-meta. Sounds though like I have not done 
enough with the concentration. I've done about a teaspoon in 1/4th gallon 
as a rinse. Sounds like I need to double or triple that. Not had any 
problems but I've always been lucky and I'd rather be prudent.


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## MedPretzel (Nov 15, 2005)

I agree, and have adopted the motto: use more than less. 


I've bought a no-rinse sanitizer from George the last time I ordered, so I feel pretty confident about my sanitizing practices. So far, so good. (knock on wood!)





M.


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## geocorn (Nov 16, 2005)

In this month's WineMaker Magazine, Tim Vandergrift talked about sanitizing in his wine kit article. His recomendation is K-Meta (Potassium Metabisulfite), which is what I have been recommending since day one. *Edited by: geocorn *


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## Waldo (Nov 16, 2005)

I was a little surprised about that article George as Tiim advocates rinsing after sanitizing with the K-Meta. I always thought that was one of the advantages, not having to rinse


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## geocorn (Nov 16, 2005)

I forgot he mentioned that. Since he wrote that for the masses, I think he mayjust be overcautious. When I met him in July, he stated that not rinsing would not increase the sulfite level by more than .3% at max.


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## Waldo (Nov 17, 2005)

Set me straight if I need it. All of my equipmet gets a good rinsing with hot water after each use and then I sanitize it before storing for next use. When I get ready to use my equipment again I just sanitize it again and use it. In other words, I am washing nothing in any kind of soap or other solution. Merely keeping everything rinsed good and sanitized. Do I need to be washing as well?


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## smurfe (Nov 17, 2005)

Waldo said:


> Set me straight if I need it. All of my equipmet gets a good rinsing with hot water after each use and then I sanitize it before storing for next use. When I get ready to use my equipment again I just sanitize it again and use it. In other words, I am washing nothing in any kind of soap or other solution. Merely keeping everything rinsed good and sanitized. Do I need to be washing as well?




Waldo, thats how I do it to. I don't use any soap. Only other thing I ever use besides Easy Cleanis bleach which if diluted properly is quite acceptable to use. Just don't use it full strength as like others say, it is tough to rinse off. A dilution of 1:10 is easy to rinse off though and leaves no scent. Make sure to use unscented bleach. I use a spray bottle of bleach water after I am done using my equipment. I use EasyClean to sanitize before I use my equipment.


You hear most say to never use bleach but the commercial wineries use it and you know they will never rinse and scrub stuff as good as we do at home.


Smurfe


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## masta (Nov 17, 2005)

Always remember this simple rule for preparing all winemaking equipment:


"Visually clean then sanitize" So if you use your equipment and rinsing with hot water gets it visually clean you are done.


I use C-Brite exclusively for cleaning and sanitizing everything!


I use my equipment and rinse with hot water then let air dry. When ready to use I rinse with hot water, check for visually clean and sanitize. 


When plain hot water does not clean something I use my sanitizer/cleaner to help remove soil mixed at a stronger concentration than for sanitizing.


I work in the pharmaceutical industry and we use the same practice of visually clean for certain pieces of equipment between different products.


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## MedPretzel (Nov 17, 2005)

Good to know!





Thanks Masta, I will incorporate that too into my winemaking.


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## Waldo (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks all..Looks like I am on the right track. And guess I would be amiss if I did not retract my "Do not use any soap at all" statement. I do use a non scented Dawn detergent when cleaning and delabeling my used wine bottles. The less desirable chore associated with home wine making. Here are some photos of my setup for this chore.


Where it is done











The Washing














Then rinsing








*Edited by: Waldo *


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## MedPretzel (Nov 18, 2005)

I am stunned.









You've got quite the setup there, Waldo!


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## geocorn (Nov 18, 2005)

I would suggest you stay away from detergents as they can leave a soapy film on your bottles.


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## jobe05 (Nov 18, 2005)

Hey Waldo.........


Is the house next door for sale....






I could just come over and use your set up!


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## bilbo-in-maine (Nov 18, 2005)

If I had a setup like that here I know one thing - my water hose would be 
split from freezing and I couldn't expect to do much with my bottles until 
they thawed in the rinse tub next spring! We're tossing firewood in the 
stoves now...


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## MedPretzel (Nov 18, 2005)

20 degrees was what I read on the thermometer this morning at 8. That's without windchill. I'm freezing!!!


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## Waldo (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks All.....Hopefully very soon the storage building in the picture ( The one beside my green lean to for my mower) will be insulated . a wine storage area partioned off and will oficially become "The Cats Meow" winery by next spring.


I began using the Dawn George upon recommendation from Hippie and have learned that it is taking at least 3 rinsings in really hot water to get all the soap out so I am open for suggestion as an alternate.


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## geocorn (Nov 18, 2005)

OxyClean works very well and does not leave a soapy residue. I would rinse once or twice and call it good.


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## Angell Wine (Nov 18, 2005)

Now what's the difference between B-brite &amp; C-brite?


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## geocorn (Nov 18, 2005)

B-Brite is an oxygen based cleanser like OxyClean. C-Brite is a chlorine based cleanser similar to disenfectants used in hospitals.


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## Waldo (Nov 19, 2005)

jobe05 said:


> Hey Waldo.........
> 
> 
> Is the house next door for sale....
> ...




I'll make sure it is vacant Jobe


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## jobe05 (Nov 19, 2005)

You have a nice little fenced in space there in your back yard, if it doesn't get to much shade, I would put in a few vines on it.......... Could be worth a couple of gallons of good wine every year......... And the privacy it may give you.


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## Waldo (Nov 19, 2005)

The back yard area would be far too shady jobe but I have a little over an acre lot and the west end is pretty much open and I am already preparing beds for Hybrid blackberry and Muscadine plants I have ordered from Isons and Doyles. I sent off a soil sample about two weeks ago and awaiting the results of it to continue. I know I will be 2 years away from getting any fruit to speak of but it will be worth the wait.


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