# Racking



## bilbo-in-maine (Oct 28, 2005)

Here is a really nuts-and-bolts topic. I've done a few rackings now since 
starting out about a month ago. The awkwardness of my inexperience is 
most obvious in my racking technique. I imagine there are many on the 
forum who can share tips and techniques they've developed on just how 
they manage this potentially messy procedure.

Have you found that a bucket or bottle clip to hold the tubing in place is 
an essential? Do you use a longer piece of vinyl tubing than what George 
provides with his starter kits, which is about 4 feet? Then there is the 
issue of getting a siphon started and maintained...grrr




I have an auto-
siphon but it is too large for the one gallon jugs I have my scratch fruit 
wines in. Also, just how close do people get to the lees before they stop 
transfering? With the red wines, it is pretty tough to see the top of the 
bed, but I'm naturally inclined



to want to remove as much as 
possible.

I know that, as with everything in life, experience is essential, but 
pointers and advice from others usually is a great help. Thanks.
Bill


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## Vaughn (Oct 28, 2005)

I've struggles with much of the same thing. With the gallon jugs, I use a smaller tube than what George gave me in the starter kit. It's easier to get a siphon going with it. I also got a clamp that easily shuts off or slows down the flow when I want it to (no mess, and great for bottling).


To get as muchout aspossible, I tilt thejug a bit while it sits. Then, come down to thatlower corner with the tube. Holding the end close to the side of the jug, I can see how deep it is, even in the blueberry wine. I always get somelees when I rack, but Irack several times before bottling to make sure it is clear. 


The clip will be my next purchase. I usually employee my wife to hold the tube in the lower jug while I devote all my attention to the upper jug. I need a backup, just in case she goes on strike.


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## rgecaprock (Oct 28, 2005)

Racking was a little awkward at first but have it down pretty good now. I don't have an autosiphon (yet) so just using the old fashioned method of sucking on the tube althought that could contribute contamination but hasn't yet. I do tip the carboyto try to get the last drop closest to the lees. My dad has a trick that I haven't tried yet. He rubberbands a small dowel stick to the end of the caneand adjusts it an inch or so below the bottom of the cane so you will know when you are touching the bottom of the carboy and not getting into the lees. I think just alot of practice and time will make it alot easier and less messy.


Ramona


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## Hippie (Oct 28, 2005)

I always use my bucket with a spigot on it for transferring to secondary vessel. I use an autosiphon for racking carboy to carboy. I bottle from the carboy. With the few gallon batches I have made, I just tip up and pour through my big funnel with a screen in it. From gallon jug to gallon jug, I do the same, pour through my big funnel and screen. Don't worry about trasferring too much lees. Do the best job you can and you will eventually have clear wine.


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## Waldo (Oct 29, 2005)

I use Hippies method with my gallon jugs. Just pour it through the filter on the funnel. So far it has worked great


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## bilbo-in-maine (Oct 29, 2005)

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. I spent the entire afternoon 
today racking a kit red wine and 5 gallon jugs of some fruit wines, with 
the usual mishaps and messes.





Vaughn - your suggestion to use a smaller tube is a good one. The clamp 
sounds helpful. Can you describe it and where you got it?

Ramona - the dowel trick is something I thought of vaguely in concept, so 
thanks for explaining it in more detail. A rubber band connection is easy.

Hippie and Waldo - the funnel you use must have a very fine screen in it 
to effectively stop the fines and would make for slow pouring I imagine. I 
will take a look at what George has in the catalog. It sounds like a smart 
way to transfer without much cost.

Thanks everyone again! Experience will pay off eventually.


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## MedPretzel (Oct 29, 2005)

This is the one I swear by


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4858





It makes life a whole heck of a lot easier.



I even use it to bottle, because my gravity filler and I don't get along too well.


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## Hippie (Oct 29, 2005)

bilbo-in-maine said:


> Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. I spent the entire afternoon
> today racking a kit red wine and 5 gallon jugs of some fruit wines, with
> the usual mishaps and messes.
> 
> ...




Yes, the screen is pretty fine, might even have to stop now and then and rinse it off from the backside, reinstall, pour slowly. If you tip the jug and pour slowly, you can catch alot of lees and sediment before it gets poured out, or if the screen isn't already clogged, pour the rest on it and catch what gets through next time. No sweat.


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDet.asp?PartNumber=4709*Edited by: Hippie *


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## Hippie (Oct 29, 2005)

George, please explain the differece if you can between these 2 products. Specifically the difference in screens. I have the 4709.


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDet.asp?PartNumber=4709


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDet.asp?PartNumber=4708*Edited by: Hippie *


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## MedPretzel (Oct 29, 2005)

I don't see it.


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## bilbo-in-maine (Oct 30, 2005)

This is the one I swear by

http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4858?</font>

Martina - Is this object a clamp to squeeze the tube shut or to just clip the 
hose to something? George offers no explanation. Also assume there is one 
for 1/2" tubing. Thanks for the tip.
Bill


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## Waldo (Oct 30, 2005)

Bilbo...that one is to stop the flow of your wine with. The one for helping keep your hose in place is the http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4880


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## bilbo-in-maine (Oct 30, 2005)

Gotcha Waldo, and I appreciate the input


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## geocorn (Oct 31, 2005)

Sorry, I have been away for a couple of days. Wife's 50th b-day and we when to Shreveport. Would you believe that the Horseshoe Hotel does NOT have internet access?


First, for small batches, the 3/8" racking cane, tubing with the bucket clip and clamp work the best for me. Here are the links:


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4870


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4852


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4880


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4858


I do have trouble with siphoning, so sometimes the "Hippie" method works best. Just take it slow to disturb the lees as little as possible.


The difference between the two filters, referred to by Hippie is that one looks like a transmission funnel. All of the funnels I sell have the same screen. The only difference is the size of the funnel.


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## Hippie (Oct 31, 2005)

Ok George, thanks.


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## jobe05 (Nov 10, 2005)

Hippie:


I have seen these funnels and thought the screen was to small for what I would use it for, however I never thought about pouring 1 gallon batches through it. If the screen plugs easily, would it help if you balled up cheese cloth, put it in the funnel, then poured through the cheese cloth? Thought would be there would be more surface area to capture lees, allowing a faster tranfer? Dunno.......


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## masta (Nov 10, 2005)

Only way you know is to try it. I use the small spoon to scrape the solids off to the side of the screen to keep the flow going and it seems to work well.


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## peterCooper (Nov 10, 2005)

george also has a carboy cap which allows you to insert the racking cane 
in the center hole, effectively 
holding it in place and a second airhole to allow air in during racking. I 
run the racking cane down the hole with it bent toward me so that the tip 
of the cane is visible at the front of the carboy. This lets me judge where 
it is. I run it down to about 2/3 inch above the lees then slowly let it go 
back to the center. 

The tip of the cane describes an arc as it goes toward the center leaving it 
about 1/2 inch above the lees. 

I rack from there. Actually I have a basting dropper that I use to draw 
the wine through the tubing, closing off with a clip at the other end, until 
I have enough wine in the tube to start the siphon.I don't have to suck 
on the tube that way so everything stays sanitary.

Having racked, I bottle what I have, which is clear, and then mess around 
with whatever is left in the original carboy. If I get more wine out, all well 
and good. Mostly though I mess it up and that last half inch goes into a 
bottle, lees and all, and I label it muddy bottom wine, which I then use as 
top up for another similar batch. 

Either George or Masta said something one time about not worrying too 
much about the dregs at the bottom because there is always some loss. I 
agree up to a point. If I can get more out, without compromising the bulk 
of it, I will. 

*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 11, 2005)

Here is a little item that I have not found anywhere else.....sorry FineVineWines...check it out.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID =4675
It is a carboy cap with two holes and tubes, one for the racking cane and one that you blow into the carboy to start the siphon [don't know if we should be blowing into our carboys, but we do it] It works every time. Now if I could get my hubby to drill an extra hole into a rubber bung that fits a gallon jug, cut down a racking cane, stick part of the cane into the newly drilled hole, you would have a homemade siphon cap for a gallon jug...why aren't they selling something like that????


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 11, 2005)

Here is a photo of the handy little gadget, now if it only came in gallon size....but we can all make those....right????


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## geocorn (Nov 11, 2005)

I carry that product for $.51 less thanMidwest. Here is the link:


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=14604


The reason they don't make this for the 1-gallon jugs is the neck is too small. The opening is only 1-1/8" wide. When you subtract the with oftwo, 3/8" canes and/or tubes, there is only 3/8" left. This would leave 1/8" on each side and 1/8" in the middle, after you drill the holes. There would be very little cap to hold everything in place.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 11, 2005)

Damn.....there has to be another way to get it to work in a gallon. Would like your catalog FineVineWines....I don't have the patience for On Line catalogs and get bored looking for the products I want....do you have a hard copy of your catalog????? Thanks!!!


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## geocorn (Nov 11, 2005)

I don't publish a catalog at this time. They are very expensive and I don't have the money that Victoria's Secret has! In addition, printed catalogs don't provide me the flexibility I need to grow. I have doubled the number of products I carry in the last year and last month I lowered allmost all of my bottle prices. As a result, I would be having to re-do and re-print my catalog contantly. I do have a downloadable catalog, but it is currently 50 pages and only has descriptions. No pictures. It also does not reflect the most recent price changes. I just thought of that. Oh well. On more project.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 11, 2005)

Been trying to download your catalog, will get to it tomorrow and will spend some time looking through it with a glass of wine in one hand....Thanks


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## geocorn (Nov 11, 2005)

Let me update it and I will mail one to you. PM me with your address or send an email to [email protected]


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## PolishWineP (Nov 11, 2005)

George, *You Are The Bomb* when it comes to customer service!


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## geocorn (Nov 11, 2005)

I had to ask my 14 year old what that meant. I understand it is a very high compliement. Thank you.


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## masta (Nov 12, 2005)

*Yo Dude...Geo is da bomb....that is wacked!*


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## jobe05 (Nov 12, 2005)

Hey NW:


Perhaps you could take the orange colored cap, mount it to a small length of PVC pipe (2minches or so) the get a rubber reducer from 1 1/2" to 1" to fit the gallon jugs.





Just make sure tou sterilize all hardware store bought parts before you use it, although none of it would/could/should come in contact with the wine.


Also, on the Fine Vine catalog: When you have a need, like when you use that last Camden tablet and you say, Hey.... I have to remember to get more! Don't remember, just go to the "wish list" section (should be "Shopping List") and add it. Then when you have everyhing you need, or once a month, just place your order from your wish list. I love that list, it's going to save me some agrivation from my (not quite) "Senior Moments".


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## PolishWineP (Nov 12, 2005)

Kids are a great resource when it comes to language! Glad you had a resource tool available. I'd hate to have hurt your feelings while paying a compliment.








geocorn said:


> I had to ask my 14 year old what that meant. I understand it is a very high compliement. Thank you.


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## geocorn (Nov 12, 2005)

Kids are a great resource for new sayings. My problem is that as soon as I know what something means, it is no longer in vogue, then my kids give me that "funny look". As a result, I try to stay away from new sayings.


By the way, what happened to groovy, far-out andright-on? I actually knew what they meant!


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## PolishWineP (Nov 12, 2005)

They come back around in the vernacular, but of course that's at the speed of light these days! 3 weeks ago my kids and all their friends were using a word and it left again so fast that I can't even remember what it was!



It might have been "cool" but I'm just not sure. I find it best to just stick to my language and let them laugh at the groovy and far out phrases I have!


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## rgecaprock (Nov 12, 2005)

I still hear people use them...mostly our age. Those terms had a little more staying power than some today.


My Dad still says Huba-Huba!!! Whatever that meant and I give him a "funny look" when he says it so guess it doesn't matter what generation you are from history repeats itself.






Ramona


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## geocorn (Nov 12, 2005)

Hubba-Hubba means you like what you see! Most of the time it was used when a guy thought a girl was good looking. Gee, am I THAT old?


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## geocorn (Nov 12, 2005)

I called it a wish list as I just thought of it being used for customers to list items for others to buy for them. I never considered a customer might use it for themselves. Boy, do I feel stupid!






However, that did give me an idea. How about a listing of everything you have purchased through Fine Vine Wines with a link to re-order it. That way, you would not have to go through the catalog to find the items you purchase regularly, like corks and chemicals. Good idea or bad idea?


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## jobe05 (Nov 12, 2005)

I see another Poll coming..............


I like the idea of the wish list for xmas time, and think would be a handy thing to have this time of year. After xmas you could just change the name to "Shopping List". 


Would it be possible to build it as a "My Store" type page, were as I can set up what I would want to see on my page when I sign in (like "My MSN"). I don't mind going through the on line catalog (thats my wish list), but I would like a shopping list on the top of the page(like the wish list now), and an order list at the bottom. So if I have 15 items on top, but only so much money to work with, I can select 10 items, they go to the bottom, and continually update the $$ totals, so maybe I could buy 11 of my 15 items............ or more.........


Poll time!


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## geocorn (Nov 12, 2005)

That could be a project for your son! To do something like that is way over my head. I also think it would require cookies, of which I am not very found. On the other hand, I do see some real value. How much "free" time did you say your son had?


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## jobe05 (Nov 12, 2005)

How much free time does he have.........


Well lets see....... he just came home for the weekend looking for food. So, while Mommy cooks, Johnny is.............








Thats right....... Sleeping! I think he has time!


I talked with him about it (before he fell asleep) and he said he would know how to do it. I don't know about the cookie thing, but Im sure he does.


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## geocorn (Nov 12, 2005)

Oh, to be back in college.






We thought we had it rough in college. Boy were we wrong!


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## grapeman (Nov 12, 2005)

I use the clip like the others to help. If I can't fit the auto-siphon in a jug, I fill the tubing and cane with water. Just hold the cane under running water and leave the clip open. Water will come out the other end. When it is fairly free of bubbles, close the clip tight and bring the tube and cane to the transfer site. Put the cane in place. I use a cup to put the clip end in as I release the clip. The siphon easily starts with no sucking. After a second or two, the water is gone through so quickly close the clip, put it in the carboy and reopen the clip and your on your way. Works every time!


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 12, 2005)

We have never had wine in a gallon jug, mainly because of the foreseen siphoning problem....going to put wine in some gallons soon to age, so will have to figure something out. Will try it all, Thanks.


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## ms.spain (Nov 29, 2005)

One thing that can help with racking/transferring from a gallon jug is placing a stable object,1/2" to 1" in height, under the jug on one side.( like a wooden spoon wrapped with rubber bands,or even a rubber bung.) Allow jug to stay in this position for 12-24 hours before racking.This will shift the wine and lees to one side, making it easier to syphon or pour, whichever method you prefer.


Hope this helps.


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## bilbo-in-maine (Nov 30, 2005)

Thanks ms. spain. I do that also, and in addition, just before racking I've 
taken to putting a non-slip pad at the front edge of the container and 
swiveling the container around so the pile of lees is now on the back side 
(must be done very gently.) As the level of wine descends during racking I 
can begin to tip the container forward with one hand and not worry about 
it kicking out at the bottom, and get almost all the liquid. This works with 
1 gallon and 6 gallon bottles - just takes care.

Bill


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## Maui Joe (Dec 3, 2005)

Here is a method that I have been using for racking 1-gal. jugs. If you do not have a rubber bung that fits a 1-gal., then you will have to "fileone down" using a rasp file works great. Prior to doing this, you will need to drill the center hole a tad under 3/8" to accept a 3/8 piece of hose for your syphon. Drill another hole at least 1/8" away from the center hole. This size hole is 1/4" for your "blow hose." Install a bolt through the center hole of the bung, add a washer and nut to hold it in place to avoid the bung from spinning. Mount it to a hand drill. Spin the drill slowly and as you hold the file at the angle of the bung, it will shave the rubber down real easy. Check to see that the bung fits the 1-gal. and continue until it sits in real good.


The 1/4" hose can be obtained at your local Home Depot in the tubing section. It is of "food grade" and use also for ice maker feed hose which has to be "rigid." Install the bung on the gallon jug and insert the 1/4" rigid hose thru the center hole of the bung down to the bottom of the jug allowing approx.1/2" below the bottom of the bung where you will then install whatever length of 3/8" hose you need to rack to. The 1/4" fits nice and snug into the 3/8" hose. You mayhave to pre-moisten the two pieces to join easier. Next, cut a 4" piece of the 1/4" hose and insert it into the other hole leaving approx. 2" above the bung top. This is where you will install a piece of the 3/8" flex hose any length you need to "blow through." I have my set at 12" so that I need not blow hard.


Next, while your at the store, go to the nuts and bolts sectionand pickup your "bung bolt, 2 nuts and washers. Also, check out the "white nylon" screws section and find a screw to thread into the bottom of the 1/4" rigid hose that you inserted to the bottom of the gallon jar. This screw will be "your plug" for the end. If they do not have nylon screws, then you may use "stainless" (Make sure that it really is stainless!)


Now for your own choice of location, you will have to determine where to cut a "V" knotch on the side of the tube up beyond the lees that lie on the bottom of the jug. It is important not to cut to deep of a notch. *All you need is a1/8" notch, not a deep one*(I have notched mine to 1/2" from the tip of the screw.) This notch is where the wine will flow through above the lees. Notch slowly to avoid "cutting through the hose" or file it at angle if you are worried.


Now that you are done, try it out on a gal. jug filled with water. The purpose of the "rigid" 1/4" is that it will naturally curve to one corner of the jug and remain there to avoid dancing around disturbing the lees at the bottom. Although the syphon is small, it allows a smoother flow with less disturbance next to the bottom. It takes approx. 3-4 minutes to syphon a 1-gal. of course depending how high you place it above the jug your racking to. If you desire "not to blow" into the tube, then check out the "squeeze bulbs" that they sell for syphoning gas for your mower. I just blow "once" into the tube with light pressure and it willflow well. Good luck, and if the directions are not substancial, I will take photos and post each step. Aloha!


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## bilbo-in-maine (Dec 4, 2005)

Hi Maui Joe - You wrote your description pretty well and I managed to follow 
the thinking. I've heard elsewhere about blowing to establish a siphon, but 
no one ever provided nuts and bolts details. Thanks for taking the time!

Bill


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## Maui Joe (Dec 4, 2005)

You're very welcome Bill!


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## Waldo (Dec 22, 2005)

I think the pics of each step would be great


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## bj4271 (Aug 15, 2006)

I agree with Waldo. Photos would help. I'm in aparticularly dense mood apparently, because I don't visualize it.


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## Waldo (Aug 15, 2006)

Maui, Maui, jump on here quick


And post us all some real good pics


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## Mike777 (Mar 19, 2007)

http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4878

I will be using one of these soon. Will report back on it. It is like a cone shape bung and the cane goes into a slot and it get tight around the cane when you push it into the carboy. I'm kind of fumbly at times so it seemed the best bet for someone like me.

*Edited by: Mike777 *


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## jobe05 (Mar 19, 2007)

Mike, sometimes having certain items is either trial and error, or what works best for you. For instance that little orange cap that looks like the bottom end of a cow. I got one with my equipment kit, but never knew what it was for till someone posted it on a thread like this one. Now, I use it once in a while, but use the auto siphon more......... or just a plain old hose.


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## Mike777 (Mar 19, 2007)

It looks like this one will allow you to suspend the tip in the dead center just above the lees and have it stay there while you move the hose around as much as you want. My first rack I kept breaking suction and sticking the tip in muck. so it will be a step up for me i'm sure. I have some bulldog clips laying around for the primary.

Now that you mentioned it, what is that little orange 'cow cap'?

*Edited by: Mike777 *


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## Wade E (Mar 19, 2007)

It is a carboy cap. It allows you to rack rack without exposing
to too much oxygen. I have one but it is usually hard to get the
racking cane in and out of there. It is nearly impossible to use with a
carboy handle also. But when racking cane is inserted it also
makes it difficult to get all the wine out at racking since it holds
the cane in the middle.


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 19, 2007)

We use the orange cap all the time....






Don't have a problem with the handles on the carboys getting in the way.

You put the racking cane through the middle thingy and blow throught the other thingy...the siphon starts with very little effort.

We have one racking cane that we just leave on the cap....just slide the cap up or down for a 5 or 6 gallon carboy.

Once you get the siphon going you can take the cap off the top of the carboy and gently move the cap up a bit and then push the end of the cane into the bottom side of the carboy....the cap doesn't have to be on the carboy once the siphon has started....

When you have a thick layer of lees [sediment] the plastic top can hold the cane above the lees if you like...Just set it short...it won't slip.

I don't know if more air gets exposed to the wine with the cap loose on the carboy....air gets in through the other hole when the cap is on tight anyway....and...without air the siphon stops.

Works for us everytime...

BTW...a cow has 4 thingy's [appendages] hanging down....a goat or deer would have 2 appendages [thingy's]

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Mike777 (Mar 20, 2007)

Ok i should have seen the cow thing coming. 

Now I gave this some thought, so if i'm wrong speak up so I don't blow it, but my understanding is the C02 is pretty heavy compared to air, so in theory if I take the lock and bung out of the carboy and carfully insert the cane through the CO2 gas and then siphon. As the wine draws down, the cap of CO2 spreads out across the carboy, just in a thinner layer. Now the theory is don't swish the cane move the container etc.

Now as the wine goes into the bottles it is touching its first air and actualy the corking of the bottle traps the first oxygen so the wine can begin aging.

Now I see some folks rack back and forth a couple of times, so the question is this: Should one of those winesaver things with the cartridges be used on the topped carboy until everything gets bottled? Or is that a bit overboard?

Also if I have the gas reasoning wrong, someone clue me in.


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## jobe05 (Mar 20, 2007)

Northern Winos said:


> We have one racking cane that we just leave on the cap....just slide the cap up or down for a 5 or 6 gallon carboy.
> 
> BTW...a cow has 4 thingy's [appendages] hanging down....a goat or deer would have 2 appendages [thingy's]




Wow.... 2 things I didn't know about the orange cap.






I have to agree with Wade, and perhaps that the reason I don't use it often is due to te racking cane is a b(#&amp;h to get through that cap. But leaving it on would certainly be an easy salution to that. Something so simple, yet, so far out of mind...... 


Thanks NW, Apreciate your input, as always.


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## Wade E (Mar 20, 2007)

I would think that CO2 is lighter than air and that it pushes out and
replaces the air, and when the head space is too much there is not
sufficient co2 to protect that vast area and that is why it is so
important towards the end of fermentation to keep it topped of to
eliminate the risk of oxygen exposure!


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## JimCook (Mar 21, 2007)

From a purely chemical/molecular standpoint, air is mostly nitrogen gas (N2), which has a molecular weight of 28. Carbon Dioxide (CO2) has a molecular weight of 44. However, even though the carbon dioxide 'weighs more', this does not mean that O2 will not get down to the wine. With gasses, it'sa little trickier, as they do not do the 'oil vs. water' separation. Since gas molecules tend to mix and go wherever the heck they darn well please, it is my belief that the when the head space simply has less volume, it will contain less oxygen (oxygen being 'dissolved' in the solution we call air at a fairly regular percentage at the one atmosphere of pressure most of us live at). 


Any movement in a gas will scramble those higher energy state molecules all over the place. If we could just rely on trusty blankets of carbon dioxide, we could virtually breathe down on the wine and our own exhaust of primarily carbon dioxide would help to preserve it, however this is not the case. 


By the way - for a test of the relative molecular weight of carbon dioxide compared to air, watch dry ice sublime to gaseous carbon dioxide. The 'steam' will run along the floor or stay low, however, as it it encounters turbulence and warms up, it will 'dissolve' and dissipate more homogenously into the air of the room.


Bottom line - it's *very* difficult to make a gaseous air environment 'layer' into a strata. 


My $.02,


- Jim


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## PolishWineP (Mar 21, 2007)

Oh no! It happened again! I read that stuff and once again, brain material all over the fermenting room.



I know that eventually I will get smarter here.


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