# What wine problems can be corrected by aging the wine?



## Poormanfarm (Dec 11, 2012)

So far, I have read on this website that aging the wine can take care of several problems: 
1. You don't have to sweeten as much if you age the wine
2. improves taste 
3. wine naturally degasses itself in about a year
4. High acid levels are reduced by aging in cold temp.

What other wine issues is helped by aging?


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## cohenhouse77 (Dec 12, 2012)

You have some left to drink.......?


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## TonyP (Dec 12, 2012)

Poor, sorry but I tend to look at aging differently. The greatest impact of aging on wine relates to the unique chemical changes that occur. Over time, chemical compounds in wine react to climatic and other influences to metamorphose (I think that's the word.) the wine into something much different in taste, look, and smell than what it was before. Sometimes these changes are good, others bad. And sometimes they're only good for a while, which is why a wine may be excellent in two years and not as good a year later.
Tony P.


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## joeswine (Dec 12, 2012)

*the body and structure and aging*

 The body and structure of the wine will detect ate the amount of changes the wine will take either way good or bad,,for example a wine with a very thin body will not improve (when aged) as much as a wine with med. body that is to say if it had good structure to start with it has a chance to mature,balance is the key to in a wines make up,most wine flaws will not dissipate if left by them selves that is were we come in to understand the different chemical components of the wine and how to adjust them,good sanitation is a cridicual compomnent in the overall make up,but if the wine in the very beginning is out of the box or bucket or raw product isn't of decent quality the rest is left (for the most part )to chance and luck. this hobbie were in is a constant learning curve.


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## robie (Dec 12, 2012)

I have opened a bottle of a 24 month old batch and was disappointed. Four months later that same batch was excellent and continues to be, now that it's about 36 months old! 

The aging process is amazing. It can change the taste significantly and in many very special ways. If you just can't wait, drink some sooner, but always put at least a portion of the batch aside for aging. You will be pleasantly rewarded, even with the whites.


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## Tom_S (Dec 12, 2012)

Time is an ingredient when making wine.


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## cpfan (Dec 12, 2012)

Poormanfarm said:


> 3. wine naturally degasses itself in about a year


Sorry, but I really don't believe this one. Probably true in a barrel (which I have never tried), a possibility in a carboy with an air lock at the right temperature, unlikely in a bottle.

Steve


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## Tom_S (Dec 12, 2012)

Definitely not in a bottle. I've had wines degas completely in a carboy over a year's time, but I've opened several-year-old bottles of wine that I had bottled without fully degassing and they still had a bit of fizz.


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## Poormanfarm (Dec 12, 2012)

In other words, wine making is not an "exact science" (ie., in wine making 2 +2 does not always equal 4)


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## TonyP (Dec 13, 2012)

cpfan said:


> Sorry, but I really don't believe this one. Probably true in a barrel (which I have never tried), a possibility in a carboy with an air lock at the right temperature, unlikely in a bottle.
> 
> Steve



Steve, I agree completely with your main point, but not the other. The gas extracted when degassing is CO2 and it can't just go away. It either stays in the bottle as gas, or reacts with the wine producing off flavors.

On the carboy side, we've all had wine that degassed by itself while in the carboy (under airlock) at a sufficient temperature. This usually takes 2 or more weeks, though, not a year.

Tony P.


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## robie (Dec 13, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Steve, I agree completely with your main point, but not the other. The gas extracted when degassing is CO2 and it can't just go away. It either stays in the bottle as gas, or reacts with the wine producing off flavors.
> 
> On the carboy side, we've all had wine that degassed by itself while in the carboy (under airlock) at a sufficient temperature. This usually takes 2 or more weeks, though, not a year.
> 
> Tony P.



I read comments like this all the time, about kit wine degassing all by itself in a carboy, if it has an air lock installed.

I don't doubt your own personal experience, but I have been making wine a for a good time now and have never had one of my wines completely degas itself in a carboy with an air lock. Maybe it is because my storage area is always less than 64F.

If no specific degassing action is taken, my experience is that wine can set there for 18 months and still be gassy. In m case several of my wines have stayed in the carboy 18 months.

Degassing used to be a major problem until I got a vacuum pump for racking and degassing. It is not even a second thought anymore. But if I didn't specifically degas with the pump and do at least one splash rack, I don't think it would self-degas in even 24 months in the carboy.

Now this is more of an issue with kit wines, than non-kit reds, which get pressed after primary fermentation.

Temperature does play an important part in degassing. The cooler it is, the harder it is to get the gas out.


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## cpfan (Dec 13, 2012)

TonyP said:


> On the carboy side, we've *all* had wine that degassed by itself while in the carboy (under airlock) at a sufficient temperature. This usually takes 2 or more weeks, though, not a year.
> 
> Tony P.


Sorry Tony, but I don't think that I have. But I'm a kit wine maker. As Robie pointed out that makes a difference over wines from grapes, but I don't think it should over fresh juice pails.

Steve


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## Sammyk (Dec 13, 2012)

Thought I would add to this. The last time I racked my peach wine that had been aging in 1 gallon carboys. I noticed one carboy out of the 5 that the was still showing activity in the carboy and bubbles along the top.

What happened is the time before I had topped off the last bottle of peach wine with peach/white grape skeeter pee. The label on that bottle indicated that I had topped off with the skeeter pee! That 750ml of skeeter pee was over a year old too.

I fined added K-meta in preparation of bottling in a couple of week. I did use the vacuum pump and believe it or not, 3 days later there is no airlock or bubbling in that last carboy. It does have a slightly different taste then the other 4 gallons of peach wine because of the peach/white grape skeeter pee.

I did NOT have the vacuum pump when I transferred the pee to another carboy.

Yes I am convinced the vacuum pump works because that last bottle 750ml of SP was over a year old with just an airlock.


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## TonyP (Dec 13, 2012)

cpfan said:


> Sorry Tony, but I don't think that I have. But I'm a kit wine maker. As Robie pointed out that makes a difference over wines from grapes, but I don't think it should over fresh juice pails.
> 
> Steve



Here's a forum topic I started in June, entitled, "No Gas? Can it be?" about degassing naturally: 

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/no-gas-can-32207/ 

I didn't think so either, until it happened.


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## robie (Dec 13, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Here's a forum topic I started in June, entitled, "No Gas? Can it be?" about degassing naturally:
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/no-gas-can-32207/
> 
> I didn't think so either, until it happened.



I am not saying it CAN'T, I am just saying it never does for me. I have had kits that for one reason or another, didn't seem to have much gas, even in right after fermentation. Others, just a simple stir of the carboy would send a wine volcano shutting up. _For reasons like that, making wine never ceases to entertain me._


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## phoebeschipp52 (Dec 13, 2012)

*Aging Wine*



Poormanfarm said:


> So far, I have read on this website that aging the wine can take care of several problems:
> 1. You don't have to sweeten as much if you age the wine
> 2. improves taste
> 3. wine naturally degasses itself in about a year
> ...


Aging will surely help clarity.


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## GreginND (Dec 13, 2012)

Interesting observations by all of you. Just to add to the confusion, I have never degassed my wines. Never stirred, never put them under a vacuum pump (yet). Splash racked, maybe. Filtered sometimes. Mine usually stay in the carboy for 8 months to 2 years before bottling. I've never had any noticeable CO2 gas left in my wines. And they have all aged in my basement ranging from 60-70 degrees. I think chemistry and physics would support the notion that a gas will eventually be released from the wine due to thermodynamics. All that being said, I will try the experiment to see if I have noticeable degassing if I put some of my wines under vacuum.



phoebeschipp52 said:


> Aging will surely help clarity.



Absolutely. And I assumed the original poster was talking about aging in bulk, not the bottle. I was at the liquor store today and was quite embarrassed to see some bottles from a couple local wineries that were obviously not aged. They had sediments, were cloudy and looked disgusting. These were fruit wines, not grape wines and in my opinion they must be crystal clear for someone to buy them.


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## phoebeschipp52 (Dec 14, 2012)

Cloudy wines with sediments for sale? oh no that should not be.Somebody was obviously in a hurry.....One important ingredient in making wine is TIME!!!!


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## g8keeper (Dec 14, 2012)

phoebeschipp52 said:


> One important ingredient in making wine is TIME!!!!


 
some of you members may be too young, but i am sure a lot of us do remember orson welles in the old paul masson commercials...."we will sell no wine before it's time"....i do perhaps believe this could have been part of what was being eluded to, although i was just a kid at the time and did not understand....now that i have made wine, i fully understand...hence after "sanitation, sanitation, sanitation", being rule number one in wine making, "PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE", is rule number two....


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## barryjo (Dec 14, 2012)

Poormanfarm said:


> In other words, wine making is not an "exact science" (ie., in wine making 2 +2 does not always equal 4)


I believe you have stumbled upon a great truth. There are just too many variables involved to call our wine making "exact science". 
2 + 2 may equal 4 1/8. 
For the most part, the end product will be acceptable. Which is what we look for. 
To attempt to exactly duplicate a commercial wine is probably not going to happen. But the fun is in trying!
Or just come up with something like Skeeter Pee and ENJOY.


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## g8keeper (Dec 14, 2012)

Poormanfarm said:


> In other words, wine making is not an "exact science" (ie., in wine making 2 +2 does not always equal 4)


 
to further this point, i would include that what we do indeed utilizes certain principles of science BUT how we choose to get from point A to point B and use the sciences, is where this hobby truly becomes an artform in of itself....


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## Midwest Vintner (Dec 15, 2012)

g8keeper said:


> to further this point, i would include that what we do indeed utilizes certain principles of science BUT how we choose to get from point A to point B and use the sciences, is where this hobby truly becomes an artform in of itself....



Agreed. 

Major changes that I've noticed

#1 wine seems to sweeten (malo>lactic changes?)
#2 mellows (less boldness), tartness, bitterness, minor off flavors, higher acidity and higher abv will slowly become more in check
#3 depending on wine, complexity of the esters, aromas, flavors aftertastes become more noticeable (probably due to #2), BUT too long and those will fade

Those are the main things I seem to notice. Some flavors, colors and smells seem to change, but it is very wine/ yeast dependent. 

The key is to DESIGN the wine in the fashion you would like to use it. You CAN make reds that are descent in a year or two. You can also make them 10 year wines. Fruit and whites are more difficult to go long term, but 6 months to 6 years is possible for peaking. Meads can go a VERY long time. Using the science of pH, TA, SO2, etc will help you to choose what works for you. The fruit itself, by nature can be manipulated to a point. We have a semi-dry blueberry wine that has similarities to a red and will probably peak in the 3-4 year range. Maybe even longer. Won't make it though. lol


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