# water to wine



## Wray (Jan 11, 2009)

This last Aug. I made a blackberry wine using a standard recipe.It has very little body.Why do all the recipes add so much water? Why not ferment the berry juice itself?Just add grape tannins,adjust acid,etc.,and leave the water out. Would this give the berryjuice wine more body?


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## Wade E (Jan 11, 2009)

Most fruits have way to much acid to do this with, especially Blackberry as it is very high in malic acid. There are many recipes on the net that just arent good and there great 1's. there are ways to get more fruit flavor from any recipe using a particular yeast strain and also the temperature plays a big trick in fruit wine making. Cooler temps will help prevent fruit ester burnout.


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## Luc (Jan 12, 2009)

Most blackberries are picked way too early.
When picked ripe the acid is at the level you would want it to be.

I picked blackberries this year and they had an acidity of 7.
http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/bramen-gaan-voor-blackberries-have.html

So when picked at this level they are ok to make wine with.

But most people pick them when not fully ripe and at that
time they are very acidic like Wade said and have to be watered down. 

So when you have the opportunity, pick them yourself when they are at their ripest.
But that will be hard has insects, birds and other humans will pick them too.

Luc


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## arcticsid (Jan 12, 2009)

Wray, take a look at the may recipes and techniques using just frozen juice concentrate. It's a way to start, or buy a "Kit Wine", those can cost some pretty good money. Either way the process is the same. And. further, we will help, declare your intentions.
Troy
(if you want to make rocket fuel talk to wingnut)


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## Wray (Jan 12, 2009)

*berry wines*

I would like to make a wine from locally available fruits and berries.In north Texas we have lots of wild "Mustang" grapes that make a great jelly. Also available for picking are peaches ,blackberries,and pears.If these are not suitable alone,would mixing them up a bit help? I also have access to a nice field of strawberries.(all above are organic).I cant store in bulk so i would probably squeeze and freeze the juice as they ripen at different times.


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## Wade E (Jan 12, 2009)

The problem with just about every fruit except grape is that the balance is off between ph and acidity. and thus the water addition is needed. Even some grapes need to be diluted with water.


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## Wray (Jan 12, 2009)

*watery wine*

Then what is to be done about the lack of body? My black berry wine has a very nice flavor,just to thin.


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## Manimal (Jan 12, 2009)

I personally believe that before you commit to any "recipe" you should test the TA of your starting juice and if it is within the proper range for the style of wine you want to make, simply adjust the sugar to the proper level and ferment as is. If the acid is too high, only add as much water as is necessary to bring the TA down to the level you want to hit. The bottom line is that water does not add flavour and so the more water you add, the less flavour your wine will have.


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## Luc (Jan 13, 2009)

Wray said:


> I would like to make a wine from locally available fruits and berries.In north Texas we have lots of wild "Mustang" grapes that make a great jelly. Also available for picking are peaches ,blackberries,and pears.If these are not suitable alone,would mixing them up a bit help? I also have access to a nice field of strawberries.(all above are organic).I cant store in bulk so i would probably squeeze and freeze the juice as they ripen at different times.



All the mentioned fruits are capable of making great wines on their own.

When the fruit is available just start picking and when in doubt come back here for advise. When you have figures available from measurements on acidity and SG we can help you to make some great wines.

Luc


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## Wray (Jan 13, 2009)

*recipes*

I have learned a great deal from my first batch of wine.I now realise that recipes are a starting point only.Next harvest I will "do the numbers" and see what I can do with what I have.You will definitly be hearing from me.


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## dloftus (Jan 14, 2009)

I understand cold stabilization will also remove acid from the wine. When I looked it up on the web, there appears to be a controversy concerning how it affects the wine, taste and body, etc. What has been the experience of the wine makers on the list?


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## Racer (Jan 14, 2009)

Can you put up a link to the article you read? I have hybrid grapes that I always have an excess acid problem with and find CS to be the least intrusive way to lower overall acidity.


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## dloftus (Jan 16, 2009)

*cold stabilization article*

Racer, here is one of the articles I came across. I read something else along these line, but can't seen to find it right off tonight. I was hoping some of the zymologists (wine makers) here could give some practical experience.

www.winebusiness.com/wbm/?go=getArticle&dataId=26469

Today, cold stabilization is the most widely used process to reduce the amount of tartrates in wine. Not only is it believed to help make wines more stable once bottled, but rounder and finer to the taste. Clark Smith co-founder of winemaking consulting firm Vinovation, Inc, disagrees. He believes the cold stabilization process actually tears the wine apart, leaving it a lesser wine than before being chilled to near freezing. "Cold stabilization is inconvenient, unreliable and expensive, robbing the wine of colloidal structure," he said. Smith believes colloids are imperative to a wine's structure, and that a new system of stabilizing wine, called electrodyalisis, removes unwanted tartrates without disrupting the colloidal structure.

Smith claims that the substantial amount of attention to detail in the winemaking process is all for naught because the wine is irreversibly damaged by cold stabilization. In some cases it's heated back up after being frozen, further affecting the wine. "After cold stabilization, the wine falls apart, and many winemakers feel that those problems are a result of bottling, but in fact the problems began the day before, when they started chilling the wine."


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## shoes (Jan 17, 2009)

yup, straight blackberry does make a thin bodied wine. i have found a couple ways to help, the first is that i use elderberrys in almost ALL my wines, i really like the way it adds body (tannins) to country wines. the second way , if you just HAVE to make straight blackberry, once its done with primary and secondary, i put it outdoors overnight and them strain the slush off. i only do this ONCE as i'm NOT trying to jack the alcohol up, i'm just trying to get a little bit of the water out. you would be suprised how much better it tastes! DISCLAIMER!!! this is ONLY theory, as to really do this would be illegal, we would'nt want to do anything illegal now would we boys!!


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