# Getting Ready for Grape Season



## 4score (Aug 3, 2021)

With grape harvest just around the corner, it's a good time to plan and order your supplies. I placed our order last week and the vendor commented that it's very smart, especially this year, to order way ahead of the crowd. He said there will likely be shortages of "your favorite items" if you wait. That being said, I have our yeast strains on order along with nutrients, enzymes, SO2, bacteria and measurement supplies. Still need an oak chain for a neutral barrel we plan to use. Got our 2021 new American Oak Barrel from Cooperages 1912. Still may need a new pH meter. I believe we have enough Tartaric Acid from last year if needed. Again, finding most things I need from Lodi Wine Labs. The prices there appear lower than many other places and their service is great. Their web page is a little "sensitive" when trying to find things. If you don't search for the item using the right spelling or characters (-), it may not hit. Their SO2 is listed as "Winy (Potassium Metabisulfite - KMBS". CH-16 won't get you a result, but CH16 will. I recommend calling them for the things you can't seem to find.

Planning a lighter season, with only a barrel (each) of Cab and Barbera, but we usually pick up an unplanned project or two along the way!

Cheers!


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 3, 2021)

I need to start thinking...and bottling the rest of the 18's and 19's!


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## 4score (Aug 4, 2021)

Same.....We have a 2019 Cab just BEGGING to be bottled!


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## CDrew (Aug 4, 2021)

Thinking about vintage 2021 as well. Thanks for the reminder. Planning 3 wines this year, A syrah, a Primitivo and a sauvignon blanc. 15 gallons of each. If there is an opportunity for a Rose, I'd like to do that again as well, but the overall thought is to dial back production a bit.


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 6, 2021)

Just bought my first press for my second season with fresh grapes. Kind of excited.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 6, 2021)

My 2021 plan was 1 or 2 Rhone-style blends, 15+ gallons of each. However, my local buying group may not work out this fall, so I'm investigating other options, which will change the plan.

One options is shippers in the DC area, although that's a 6 hour drive for me. It's still a better option than the vineyard I purchased from when I lived in NY, as that's an 11 hour drive ....

I contacted the NC and VA grape grower associations, asking if they had lists of vineyards that sell to home winemakers. NC has not responded, but VA offered to post a notice on their members message board. I'll do this is the local buy falls through.

Going with local grapes will probably be a complete change of plans. I'll have to see what Vinifera is available, and am strongly considering doing a Vinifera blend in 1 barrel and a hybrid blend in the other. I haven't made a hybrid in over 20 years (last one was Carmine), and I like the idea. Even if my normal group buy works out, I may post to see if I can get hybrid juice such as Seyval, Vignoles (Ravat 51), and Vidal.

Option 3 is to buy kits to fill the barrels. I have a Finer Wines Barbera on order, which I purchased to get the lifetime discount. If that works well I'm considering ordering 6 kits (varieties TBD) to fill a pair of 54 liter barrels.


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## Cynewulf (Aug 6, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> My 2021 plan was 1 or 2 Rhone-style blends, 15+ gallons of each. However, my local buying group may not work out this fall, so I'm investigating other options, which will change the plan.
> 
> One options is shippers in the DC area, although that's a 6 hour drive for me. It's still a better option than the vineyard I purchased from when I lived in NY, as that's an 11 hour drive ....
> 
> ...


Have you checked the Virginia Vineyards Association exchange: Grapes for sale ? I keep an eye on them for grapes in case disease wipes everything out from my home vineyard. I’ve written a few that posted grapes for sale and some were willing to sell me home winemaker quantities at the same price ($1.00-$1.20/lb). If you’re looking for 500-600 lbs I reckon they’d be willing to talk.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 6, 2021)

Cynewulf said:


> Have you checked the Virginia Vineyards Association exchange: Grapes for sale ? I keep an eye on them for grapes in case disease wipes everything out from my home vineyard. I’ve written a few that posted grapes for sale and some were willing to sell me home winemaker quantities at the same price ($1.00-$1.20/lb). If you’re looking for 500-600 lbs I reckon they’d be willing to talk.


Cool! Thanks!


EDIT: I have seen that page, but assumed it was focused on commercial growers. My mistake. It makes sense to contract the growers -- the worst they can do is ignore me or say "no".


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## Cynewulf (Aug 7, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> Cool! Thanks!
> 
> 
> EDIT: I have seen that page, but assumed it was focused on commercial growers. My mistake. It makes sense to contract the growers -- the worst they can do is ignore me or say "no".


FWIW, I don’t think anyone I’ve reached out to has ignored me. I’ve had mostly yeses or maybes if they’re holding out to sell their whole lot rather than piece it out of they can. One even followed up with me again this year asking if I was looking for grapes.


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## Booty Juice (Aug 7, 2021)

Cynewulf said:


> FWIW, I don’t think anyone I’ve reached out to has ignored me. I’ve had mostly yeses or maybes if they’re holding out to sell their whole lot rather than piece it out of they can. One even followed up with me again this year asking if I was looking for grapes.



I would underscore this experience. I've blindly approached scores of owners or vineyard managers from the Willamette Valley, Napa /Sonoma, El Dorado / Amador, Paso /SLO / SB - as well as Italy / Slovenia - the willingness to talk and share is pretty much universal. I mean, they love wine as much (more) as we do!


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 7, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> My 2021 plan was 1 or 2 Rhone-style blends, 15+ gallons of each. However, my local buying group may not work out this fall, so I'm investigating other options, which will change the plan.
> 
> One options is shippers in the DC area, although that's a 6 hour drive for me. It's still a better option than the vineyard I purchased from when I lived in NY, as that's an 11 hour drive ....
> 
> ...



If you are willing to make that 6 hour drive, Washington Winemaker's pickup is only about 45 minutes from me and @mainshipfred .


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## buzi (Aug 7, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> I need to start thinking...and bottling the rest of the 18's and 19's!


It always seems like I am behind in the bottling!


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## winemaker81 (Aug 7, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> If you are willing to make that 6 hour drive, Washington Winemaker's pickup is only about 45 minutes from me and @mainshipfred .


Fred told me about this one. My brother lives in Ashburn, about 20 minutes from Fred's shop, and I'd use him as a rest stop, so this distance isn't as bad as it may sound on paper.


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## Ajmassa (Aug 8, 2021)

Getting ready for grape season


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 9, 2021)

I need to hunker down and get to work here in the next few weeks. The WW pricing came out early, and I need to get my order in (the timing of receipt of your order determines how early in the day you can pick up). I also have 6 gallons of 2018 to bottle, along with 26 gallons of 2019 ready to go. Also need to get the 2nd half of 2020 through barrel rotation. I've been a lazy winemaker since Covid hit.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 20, 2021)

Sent my order in yesterday. I'm doing 3 single varietals: Malbec, Pinot Noir and Grenache - none of which Lodi is known for, but I'll get what I can get. Already have plenty of Old Vine Zin, so didn't want to make more.


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## Kraffty (Aug 20, 2021)

@boatbay24 I'm assuming we end up with grapes from the same or similar source. Our Lodi Zin, Syrah and Pinot from last year are fine but all are light in color. Syrah probably the darkest and best from last year. I'll hopefully send our order this weekend. Pickup in Phoenix set for Sept 12, also Lodi grapes. I have 30 gals. of 4 diff 2020's to bottle labor day weekend with the neighbors helping out. They're throwing in and picking and making their first wines this year under my tutelage (silly folks). I'm going a bit smaller and different this year, varietal Cabernet Sauv. and Grenach Rose from grapes and a Chardonnay from juice bucket. Getting excited again.


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## DizzyIzzy (Aug 21, 2021)

I have a home vineyard of *Concord *grapes which looks like it is going to produce a good crop. (I have never made wine from grapes before) Any recommendations for killing off the wild yeasts occurring naturally on the grapes, OR if that will not even be necessary? Will appreciate any thoughts on the subject...............................DizzyIzzy


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## winemaker81 (Aug 21, 2021)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Any recommendations for killing off the wild yeasts occurring naturally on the grapes


No need to try to kill the wild yeast. Simply inoculate with a commercial yeast and let 'er rock!


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## wood1954 (Aug 21, 2021)

i put out my homemade wasp traps the other day, need to go thru the vineyard and start pulling any split or rotten grapes before they attract any wasps or ants, i noticed some really tiny ants like a millimeter in length feeding on a rotten berry so need to put out ant poison as well. The fake owl will go out soon. Otherwise i have all my winemaking chems, just waiting for harvest.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 21, 2021)




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## mainshipfred (Aug 22, 2021)

Placed my Cali order and will try field blending this year for the first time. The blend will be based on previous post ferment blends. First will be 3 lugs Sangiovese, 1 Nebbiolo, 1 Alicante. The second 4 Touriga and 1 Tempranillo. Also getting 5 lugs of Malbec. I never made it from grapes, just a juice bucket with some leftover verity of use skins. Also placed my ingredient order last Wednesday for everything except MLB.


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## distancerunner (Aug 23, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Placed my Cali order and will try field blending this year for the first time. The blend will be based on previous post ferment blends. First will be 3 lugs Sangiovese, 1 Nebbiolo, 1 Alicante. The second 4 Touriga and 1 Tempranillo. Also getting 5 lugs of Malbec. I never made it from grapes, just a juice bucket with some leftover verity of use skins. Also placed my ingredient order last Wednesday for everything except MLB.



What is the goal for the Sangiovese? Chianti or Super Tuscan? Or something else?


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## mainshipfred (Aug 23, 2021)

distancerunner said:


> What is the goal for the Sangiovese? Chianti or Super Tuscan?



Really neither, they were just what I had and thought they would go well together.


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## distancerunner (Aug 23, 2021)

The report from Consumer's Produce is that the Sangiovese from Lanza is very good to outstanding. We're thinking of using it this year. Looking for ideas of what to blend. And whether or not to field blend or ferment separately.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 23, 2021)

distancerunner said:


> The report from Consumer's Produce is that the Sangiovese from Lanza is very good to outstanding. We're thinking of using it this year. Looking for ideas of what to blend. And whether or not to field blend or ferment separately.



I have this hanging for reference, perhaps it would help. Plus as I stated this is the first time trying a field blend and I'm only doing it because I've had previous success post blending with these proportions.


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## CDrew (Aug 23, 2021)

distancerunner said:


> The report from Consumer's Produce is that the Sangiovese from Lanza is very good to outstanding. We're thinking of using it this year. Looking for ideas of what to blend. And whether or not to field blend or ferment separately.



Great plan. I made a pure Sangiovese last year that is quite promising. It's on the lighter side color wise(normal for Sangiovese), but beautiful fruit and acid. I was just in grape county yesterday-looks like a good crop, and other than a couple of hot weeks , the weather has been great. I don't know where Lanza gets grapes from, but I vaguely remember Suisuin Valley. If so, there really have not been fires to speak of there, and so smoke taint may not be a big deal this year. 

One of the places I frequent had a bear go through the vineyard this past week. Ate only white grapes-likely because they are closer to ripe.

But good luck in 2021 everyone. We could use a nice harvest and some good times.


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## jgmann67 (Aug 23, 2021)

I am completely unprepared for grape season this year.  Not sure what I'm going to do, if anything. Might be best for me to sit this year out.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 23, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> I am completely unprepared for grape season this year. Not sure what I'm going to do, if anything. Might be best for me to sit this year out.



You have another month before the grapes come in. Isn't that enough time to prepare? You have to get your order in by the end of the month though.

I have some good wines to bring this year, you'll be missing out.


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## jgmann67 (Aug 24, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> You have another month before the grapes come in. Isn't that enough time to prepare? You have to get your order in by the end of the month though.
> 
> I have some good wines to bring this year, you'll be missing out.



fine…. I’ll work on it this weekend.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 24, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> I am completely unprepared for grape season this year. Not sure what I'm going to do, if anything. Might be best for me to sit this year out.



I actually had the same thought about a week and a half ago. My grape order is in, as is my order for yeast and all the other goodies.  I need to get my hands on some bottles though. I need at least 5 cases - but really 10. Otherwise, I'll be buying more carboys.


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## distancerunner (Aug 24, 2021)

CDrew said:


> Great plan. I made a pure Sangiovese last year that is quite promising. It's on the lighter side color wise(normal for Sangiovese), but beautiful fruit and acid. I was just in grape county yesterday-looks like a good crop, and other than a couple of hot weeks , the weather has been great. I don't know where Lanza gets grapes from, but I vaguely remember Suisuin Valley. If so, there really have not been fires to speak of there, and so smoke taint may not be a big deal this year.
> 
> One of the places I frequent had a bear go through the vineyard this past week. Ate only white grapes-likely because they are closer to ripe.
> 
> But good luck in 2021 everyone. We could use a nice harvest and some good times.



Thank you. We're discussing it right now. Blending is the big question. There should be good Merlot and Cab Sauv. Although, the Cab is coming in at $109.00/36lbs. 

I was thinking about crushing a box of Alicante separately to use for color if needed.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 27, 2021)

Just a heads up for anyone ordering supplies from MoreWine. I placed my order on Monday. Normally, it would ship the next day (sometimes the same day) and be here in a day or two. I didn't hear anything until last night - and that was only for them to tell me one of the yeasts I ordered was out of stock at their east coast warehouse so it would ship from the west coast. Nothing has shipped yet. Seems they are a little busy and not shipping as quickly as in the past. Plan ahead.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 27, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Just a heads up for anyone ordering supplies from MoreWine. I placed my order on Monday. Normally, it would ship the next day (sometimes the same day) and be here in a day or two. I didn't hear anything until last night - and that was only for them to tell me one of the yeasts I ordered was out of stock at their east coast warehouse so it would ship from the west coast. Nothing has shipped yet. Seems they are a little busy and not shipping as quickly as in the past. Plan ahead.



Mine was the same, I placed the order on a Wednesday and it wasn't picked until late Friday so it didn't ship until late Monday, and received it on Wednesday. I also had one yeast that wasn't in stock but got it Wednesday as well. Also Lallzyme EX-V wasn't available on the East so I didn't order it. Last year I found SCott Labs was $10 cheaper for the MLB so I'll order that later when the temps cool down.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 27, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Last year I found SCott Labs was $10 cheaper for the MLB so I'll order that later when the temps cool down.



I noticed the MLB at MoreWine jumped in price.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 27, 2021)

I hope this opens. The only other difference is there is free shipping with Morewine on orders over $59.00 which I normally am but $11.00 for Scotts which makes it close to the same price.






Catalog - Malolactic Bacteria - Fermentation | Scott Laboratories







shop.scottlab.com


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## CDrew (Aug 27, 2021)

A week ago, Lodi Wine Labs had pretty good supply. And the CH16 is still $19.99 same as last year. They also have plenty of EX-V on the shelf, I bought a 100gm bottle of it to share with some local friends. Obviously not as handy for you guys on the East Coast, but a very legit supplier with often surprisingly competitive prices. Good people too.


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## crushday (Aug 27, 2021)

CDrew said:


> We could use a nice harvest and some good times.


I COULD NOT AGREE MORE!


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 27, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Just a heads up for anyone ordering supplies from MoreWine. I placed my order on Monday. Normally, it would ship the next day (sometimes the same day) and be here in a day or two. I didn't hear anything until last night - and that was only for them to tell me one of the yeasts I ordered was out of stock at their east coast warehouse so it would ship from the west coast. Nothing has shipped yet. Seems they are a little busy and not shipping as quickly as in the past. Plan ahead.



Both my East and West coast orders shipped today. Should be Ok.


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## jgmann67 (Aug 29, 2021)

Unfortunately, I won’t be getting my grapes from WW this year. I’ll be away that weekend and won’t be able to pick them up. Thinking about Gino Pintos or somewhere else. Ride in, grab and go.

will miss seeing you guys.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 29, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> Unfortunately, I won’t be getting my grapes from WW this year. I’ll be away that weekend and won’t be able to pick them up. Thinking about Gino Pintos or somewhere else. Ride in, grab and go.
> 
> will miss seeing you guys.



But, what about those emails you've been sending? What is your wife going to do about her Chardonnay?


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## jgmann67 (Aug 29, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> But, what about those emails you've been sending? What is your wife going to do about her Chardonnay?



I’ll run down to Procacci in Philly or Gino Pinto across the river, I think.

I won’t be back till late Sunday and can’t run down there during the week because of work. If delivery wasn’t the 25th, I’d be fine.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 30, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> I’ll run down to Procacci in Philly or Gino Pinto across the river, I think.
> 
> I won’t be back till late Sunday and can’t run down there during the week because of work. If delivery wasn’t the 25th, I’d be fine.



Jim, after reading your emails to Jim Gearing I'm not convinced he understands you still don't want them. I could be misreading it but I would recommend clarifying it with him.


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## jgmann67 (Aug 30, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Jim, after reading your emails to Jim Gearing I'm not convinced he understands you still don't want them. I could be misreading it but I would recommend clarifying it with him.



thanks Fred. I’ll check. I was about to text him when he responded.


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## Booty Juice (Aug 30, 2021)

No doubt everyone already has their fruit lined up, but some of us can't resist side projects! If you live anywhere near El Dorado County in CA, here is a list of vineyards advertising their fruit:



El Dorado Wine Grape Growers :: Grapes Available



If you're worried about smoke taint from the Caldor fire, any vineyard below the 3,000 to 3,500 foot elevation should be fine as the fire started in Grizzly Flats at roughly 3,800 feet and ran upslope.

There is some very fine fruit in El Do Co / Amador counties. In addition to the vineyards actively advertising, here is a much more complete list of vineyards in the county. My experience has been that almost all vineyards are home-gamer friendly.



El Dorado Wine Grape Growers :: Members



Even if you don't use fruit from any of these vineyards this season, it doesn't hurt to expand your rolodex (remember those?).

The best to all and enjoy your wines!


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## 4score (Sep 1, 2021)

4score said:


> With grape harvest just around the corner, it's a good time to plan and order your supplies. I placed our order last week and the vendor commented that it's very smart, especially this year, to order way ahead of the crowd. He said there will likely be shortages of "your favorite items" if you wait. That being said, I have our yeast strains on order along with nutrients, enzymes, SO2, bacteria and measurement supplies. Still need an oak chain for a neutral barrel we plan to use. Got our 2021 new American Oak Barrel from Cooperages 1912. Still may need a new pH meter. I believe we have enough Tartaric Acid from last year if needed. Again, finding most things I need from Lodi Wine Labs. The prices there appear lower than many other places and their service is great. Their web page is a little "sensitive" when trying to find things. If you don't search for the item using the right spelling or characters (-), it may not hit. Their SO2 is listed as "Winy (Potassium Metabisulfite - KMBS". CH-16 won't get you a result, but CH16 will. I recommend calling them for the things you can't seem to find.
> 
> Planning a lighter season, with only a barrel (each) of Cab and Barbera, but we usually pick up an unplanned project or two along the way!
> 
> Cheers!


Glad to see many are happily harvesting and making wine already. I would be too if I didn't get a message from my Barbera grower while I WAS ON THE WAY to pick up 1500 pounds of grapes last week, "sorry but the deer devastated my crop and I have no grapes for you". He says it's the 1st time in 20 years that this happened. Plan B - replace Barbera with a Zin plan. We decided to see if our Cabernet grower also had extra Zin to supply us. Luckily, they do! It's a bit further away, but the next county is better than nothing at all. We're good as long as the wildfire (Caldor Fire) smoke stays away from our grapes in Amador County. Zin Brix from a couple of days ago was 21 (pH 3.46). I think the Cab is at 23 (pH 3.23). Fingers crossed. The fire is a minor inconvenience for us winemakers compared to the devastation it's causing as it marches quickly into the Tahoe Basin.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 1, 2021)

4score said:


> Glad to see many are happily harvesting and making wine already. I would be too if I didn't get a message from my Barbera grower while I WAS ON THE WAY to pick up 1500 pounds of grapes last week, "sorry but the deer devastated my crop and I have no grapes for you". He says it's the 1st time in 20 years that this happened. Plan B - replace Barbera with a Zin plan. We decided to see if our Cabernet grower also had extra Zin to supply us. Luckily, they do! It's a bit further away, but the next county is better than nothing at all. We're good as long as the wildfire (Caldor Fire) smoke stays away from our grapes in Amador County. Zin Brix from a couple of days ago was 21 (pH 3.46). I think the Cab is at 23 (pH 3.23). Fingers crossed. The fire is a minor inconvenience for us winemakers compared to the devastation it's causing as it marches quickly into the Tahoe Basin.



Wow, talk about a lack of notice. Glad it's working out. I've made Amador Zin a couple times and it's always been good - one of my favorite varietals, actually.


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## Kraffty (Sep 1, 2021)

We're still on for a Sun. the 12th, 7am grape pickup in Phoenix. Last Sunday, on our way home from So. Cal., Lori saw an ad for a Pat Benatar Concert on Sat. Night, in Phoenix, that same weekend. Booked great seats and a hotel a few blocks away on the way home. We saw her and the band back in the 80's (in our 20's) and again maybe 8 years ago acoustic with just her and Neil. Proof of Vax and masks required to see the show. Might as well make it a fun weekend.


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## dizzy (Sep 2, 2021)

Not sure what I want to do this year...I really enjoyed making wine for the first time in the past year and would like to expand a little. About to empty 3-5 carboys and we have more in the attic (my fiance used to make cider/mead) 
Work in Philly/live in South Jersey, lotta options.

I'm 10 minutes from Procacci, missed out on that last year. I'm pretty intrigued by their Chateuneuf du Pape which sounds like it has Italian grapes? Wild. I have frozen skins to throw in there or whatever I get, probably a juice bucket?

I also had a great experience with Keystone, and have a good friend who just moved up that way. Says they'll have the Washington grapes again this year as well as some from Lake County. I think those will come in after our October wedding and should be a logistically good time for us to do it. I don't have a crusher and it was nice for them to just do it in the parking lot. IDK, maybe I should give a Saignee de parking lot a go like @Ajmassa did?


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## Ajmassa (Sep 2, 2021)

I did a du Pape from procacci in ‘17. Included some fresh grapes from a Tuscan blend I was doing. The juice is a Grenache based blend I assume*. 
It was just meh at first. didn’t drink it much since other stuff was better. Aged longer than typical as a byproduct. At 3 yrs it pretty incredible compared to when young. Have just one left!
And I’m eyeing up the Lake County as well. Supposedly high quality stuff.
the Pintos menu isn’t always posted online. They always have the most options. (No crusher on site tho. But here’s their 2021 menu.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 2, 2021)

Oh and any ‘saigneé le parking’ lot has my full support! Lol. an extra empty bucket is all ya need. Just carefully pour out some juice from the crushed grapes and you’re good (I used a large strainer on top of the empty bucket. mesh bag was unnecessary). 10%-30% they say. Just make sure to target workable volumes in your order to ensure full vessels to age. 

3lugs gives a 6carboy plus change. I’d add another and strain out 2gal for rosé. funky sizes/full vessels might be one of the biggest hassles about low vol grape winemaking that we all endure. 
And @dizzy good luck with the big day btw.


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## pgentile (Sep 3, 2021)

I'll probably hit up Gino's for one batch of premium grapes, but going to go with Procaci for 12-15 lugs this saturday. Stopped by wednesday morning only juices were in. Grapes were coming in yesterday, today and tomorrow. No premium grape list this year, when I asked I was told all the grapes are premium.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 3, 2021)

pgentile said:


> I'll probably hit up Gino's for one batch of premium grapes, but going to go with Procaci for 12-15 lugs this saturday. Stopped by wednesday morning only juices were in. Grapes were coming in yesterday, today and tomorrow. No premium grape list this year, when I asked I was told all the grapes are premium.



At those prices they better be premium. How bad did you get hit by the storm?


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## pgentile (Sep 3, 2021)

Yah, prices are up. But it's 10minutes from my house. Saw the grapes today, quality looks pretty good. We were lucky by 4 blocks or so and had no flooding here. Higher ground here at 22nd st & Bainbridge.


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## Kraffty (Sep 4, 2021)

In prep for next weekend's crush we bottled our 2020 Zin, Pinot Noir, Syrah and red blend this morning. Next-door neighbors helped out and will be helping crush next week. They even ordered some Zinfandel grapes on our order and will be making their very first batch along side ours this year. Another couple hooked......


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 5, 2021)

@Kraffty What are the carafes for - sampling when finished?


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## Kraffty (Sep 5, 2021)

Pretty much Jim, I take a little of each before making my final Kmeta addition just before bottling. I give a taste to everyone involved so they have a comparison to the aged wine. Will all magically disappear by end of the day today as I finish cleaning up and setting up for crush.


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## Donz (Sep 10, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> I did a du Pape from procacci in ‘17. Included some fresh grapes from a Tuscan blend I was doing. The juice is a Grenache based blend I assume*.
> It was just meh at first. didn’t drink it much since other stuff was better. Aged longer than typical as a byproduct. At 3 yrs it pretty incredible compared to when young. Have just one left!
> And I’m eyeing up the Lake County as well. Supposedly high quality stuff.
> the Pintos menu isn’t always posted online. They always have the most options. (No crusher on site tho. But here’s their 2021 menu.
> ...


My supplier up here has the Caterina label this year. Anyone used this fruit in the past?


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## Kraffty (Sep 10, 2021)

Nothing like taking things down to the wire. I ordered my Chems early last week, they were scheduled to arrive yesterday via Fedex, now it looks like Monday. Grapes come Sunday and luckily I'm attempting a few days cold soak so I should be fine. I found a company called smart bottle that makes re-usable plastic containers that I'm using as ice bombs. They just arrived today and I just got them in the freezer, don't know if they'll be solid by sunday afternoon but will keep my fingers crossed. I'm planning on an approx 40lb block of ice in each brute of 3 lugs of grapes/must. Changing out for fresh block as needed for the few days. It seems like a pretty solid product, food grade and one size is used as disposable growlers so I'm comfortable dumping them into the must. A total of 30 gals of water so about 240 lbs chilling and freezing now. Will report results. I guess It's time to do something with or dispose of last years lugs........


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 10, 2021)

Kraffty said:


> I guess It's time to do something with or dispose of last years lugs......



I'm jealous of you guys that get the wood lugs. Guess it would get old after the first year, but I want to get my hands on some.


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## Kraffty (Sep 10, 2021)

Someone, maybe JohnD, suggested a few years ago to have everyone who helped at crush time sign on a lug panel and gift it to them later. Think I can do something artistic that way. Also going to use some of the end panels as skirting on my outdoor kitchen area I'm planning for this year.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 14, 2021)

Kraffty said:


> Someone, maybe JohnD, suggested a few years ago to have everyone who helped at crush time sign on a lug panel and gift it to them later. Think I can do something artistic that way. Also going to use some of the end panels as skirting on my outdoor kitchen area I'm planning for this year.


Digging those plans. Ive also been toying with ideas. 

Gonna do a small little decorative bottle holder. Holding Maybe 12bottles. 

And also similar to your kitchen skirt boards i want to use on my basement steps going into the wine room. Currently it’s an open set of 7 steps. Treads are two 2x6’s. Hinged at the top for sump pump access underneath steps. Plan to fill in the risers and line with the lug panels


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 14, 2021)

Well... I'm officially excited. These beautiful premium Anderson Valley pinot noir grapes are coming in tonight, and tomorrow 1/2 ton of them will be mine  
This will be my first solo winemaking effort (though I also have 3 gal of elderberry currently fermenting)


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## Ajmassa (Sep 14, 2021)

BarrelMonkey said:


> Well... I'm officially excited. These beautiful premium Anderson Valley pinot noir grapes are coming in tonight, and tomorrow 1/2 ton of them will be mine
> This will be my first solo winemaking effort (though I also have 3 gal of elderberry currently fermenting)
> 
> View attachment 78738



First time riding solo and your going for a half ton?! Hot damn! Good for you. 
I can relate to that shift too. Working as a helper for years is not even comparable to being the shotcaller. So much different. That wine becomes your baby!

When shifting into grapes solo I had an identical approach . Tested the waters with a small 3 gal in the spring right into a 30gal in the fall. But 100gal? That’s the big leagues! Excited for you. 
That’s such a great pic of the grapes on that old vine btw. Good luck. 

(And remember—-everyone loves a high vol. crush so make sure to take lots of pics!)


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## crushday (Sep 14, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> First time riding solo and your going for a half ton?! Hot damn! Good for you.


Aj, you make me giggle…


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## GreenEnvy22 (Sep 14, 2021)

I picked our Muscat today, got 130 lbs, and ended up with about 30L/8gallons pressed. 1.080 SG, pretty much exactly what I wanted. 
Thats the only wine I plan on doing this year. Hopefully can avoid getting talked into another one  I still have many dozens of gallons to bottle from the last couple of years.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 15, 2021)

GreenEnvy22 said:


> .
> Thats the only wine I plan on doing this year. Hopefully can avoid getting talked into another one  I still have many dozens of gallons to bottle from the last couple of years.


Sounds to me like your trying to convince yourself of something you really deep down don’t agree with. 

Because after all, muscat blends absolutely brilliantly with zin and Alicante. Keep 6. Sacrifice 2 for a blend I promise you’ll be making again next year.


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## GreenEnvy22 (Sep 15, 2021)

I may have to try that.
Usually around this time a couple Aunts and Uncle's ask me to make wine for them. They provide all the grapes (they are commercial growers), and I keep 1/3 as my "fee". But I'm just too busy now.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 15, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> I can relate to that shift too. Working as a helper for years is not even comparable to being the shotcaller. So much different.


Very true. When my son made his first wine, after years of helping me, he made a few trivial mistakes that surprised me. Details that the lead winemaker may believe are obvious ... are not.

It just occurred to me that a checklist for beginners is a good idea, like the WE kit instructions.


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 15, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> Working as a helper for years is not even comparable to being the shotcaller. So much different. That wine becomes your baby!



Yes, already realizing this! Trucking and destemming went according to plan. But the wine numbers... need attention. Brix 27.5 (we had a hot spell over the weekend), pH 3.6, TA 0.68. I'm definitely adding back acidulated water, just don't want to overdo it...


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## CDrew (Sep 15, 2021)

BarrelMonkey said:


> Yes, already realizing this! Trucking and destemming went according to plan. But the wine numbers... need attention. Brix 27.5 (we had a hot spell over the weekend), pH 3.6, TA 0.68. I'm definitely adding back acidulated water, just don't want to overdo it...



That's a high Brix! Ferm calc can get you back to 25 or so. You're other numbers look ideal.


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 15, 2021)

CDrew said:


> That's a high Brix! Ferm calc can get you back to 25 or so. You're other numbers look ideal.


Weird ripening this year. When brix was in a reasonable range, pH was still very low - ironically I now think a slight acid bump might be in order since pH will likely increase with fermentation/ML?


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## mainshipfred (Sep 16, 2021)

BarrelMonkey said:


> Weird ripening this year. When brix was in a reasonable range, pH was still very low - ironically I now think a slight acid bump might be in order since pH will likely increase with fermentation/ML?



3.6 is borderline for me for adding acid. Typically I would probably do a post ferment bench trail before making the decision.


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## Donz (Sep 16, 2021)

I wouldn't go dumping acid in with anything in the 3.6/3.7 range.


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## distancerunner (Sep 16, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> 3.6 is borderline for me for adding acid. Typically I would probably do a post ferment bench trail before making the decision.



Sort of off topic:

If the post fermentation pH is ~3.6 and you do not want to add acid, would you skip cold stabilization?


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## mainshipfred (Sep 16, 2021)

distancerunner said:


> Sort of off topic:
> 
> If the post fermentation pH is ~3.6 and you do not want to add acid, would you skip cold stabilization?



Not exactly sure what your though process is but I wouldn't think it would make any difference.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 16, 2021)

distancerunner said:


> would you skip cold stabilization?


Unless you want to reduce acid, what is the value of cold stabilization?


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## Ajmassa (Sep 16, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> Unless you want to reduce acid, what is the value of cold stabilization?


The whole ‘Stabilization’ part!—> Dropping out the cold tartrates (wine diamonds) so it doesn’t happen while in the bottle. 
For me the acid change was negligible unless combined with antacid chems. So the change in levels is incidental when stabilizing for fallout. CS seems to be routine for white & rosé for the dropout (served cold). 
But also used as a technique to remove acid for any wine (w/ or w/o chems)

But @distancerunner’s question falls into that weird ph thing that defies logic for acid removal. 
CS w/ Ph under 3.65—-removing acid thru cold stabilization actually lowers ph. 
CS w/ Ph over 3.65—goes back to making sense and increases as acid falls out. 

There’s no doubt some in-depth well written articles out there regarding the benefits of cold stabilizing.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 17, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> The whole ‘Stabilization’ part!—> Dropping out the cold tartrates (wine diamonds) so it doesn’t happen while in the bottle.


If the acid level is low, tartrates are unlikely to drop in the bottle, especially for reds that are not chilled and whites that are chilled only for a day or 2 before serving.

My experience with cold stabilization is with NY Finger Lakes whites, which are typically very high in acid. Cold stabilization made a large difference in acid levels and dramatically improved the wines from being very sharp into merely snippy.


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## distancerunner (Sep 17, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Not exactly sure what your though process is but I wouldn't think it would make any difference.





Ajmassa said:


> The whole ‘Stabilization’ part!—> Dropping out the cold tartrates (wine diamonds) so it doesn’t happen while in the bottle.
> For me the acid change was negligible unless combined with antacid chems. So the change in levels is incidental when stabilizing for fallout. CS seems to be routine for white & rosé for the dropout (served cold).
> But also used as a technique to remove acid for any wine (w/ or w/o chems)
> 
> ...



Exactly what I was thinking. If you have an accurate measurement, then there is an opportunity to change the pH. Whether or not that is desirable, I'm guessing, will be at least partially dependent on TA. 

Tasting helps, too.


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## Booty Juice (Sep 18, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> The whole ‘Stabilization’ part!—> Dropping out the cold tartrates (wine diamonds) so it doesn’t happen while in the bottle.
> For me the acid change was negligible unless combined with antacid chems. So the change in levels is incidental when stabilizing for fallout. CS seems to be routine for white & rosé for the dropout (served cold).
> But also used as a technique to remove acid for any wine (w/ or w/o chems)
> 
> ...



Sorry in advance for the thread drift.

A few years ago I left a case of homemade CS in the garage of our IN home - through an entire winter. Obviously, mad tartrates were thrown off. My wife and daughter strained a bottle into a decanter.............and loved it.

Now, there are always a few bottles of reds in the basement fridge.

Different strokes.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 19, 2021)

Booty Juice said:


> Now, there are always a few bottles of reds in the basement fridge.


It all depends on the individual wine. I've refrigerated wines for weeks and had nothing drop. My 2019 red blend 2nd run has dropped crystals at 70 F.


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## cmason1957 (Sep 21, 2021)

Woo Hoo!!!! Woo Hoo!!! Just got an email from the place I normally buy grapes that I will be able to get some this year. I had resigned myself to only doing a couple of kits this year and he came thru for me. So Sat. I go pick up my 300-500 lbs of Chambourcin. My wife isn't nearly as happy with that as I am. She had plans for me this weekend.


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## jgmann67 (Oct 27, 2021)

In mid-September, I resigned myself to the fact that I wasn't going to make wine from fresh grapes this year. Between work and time away from the house, I couldn't make the schedule work. 

On October 21st, I got a call from a local vineyard operator who grows chard, merlot and cab franc. He said he would likely have some excess cab franc if I wanted some. They were picking on the 23rd. I could come down, pick what I wanted and go along my merry way. Too good to pass up. I picked 100 lbs with a "let's see if these PA grapes are any good" mindset.

The grapes were in really good shape. The pH came in just shy of 3.9, but the brix were right on the money at around 24. I adjusted the pH to 3.55 and set my plan in motion. I'll let y'all know how it goes. But so far, the fermentation is humming along nicely. 

The only concern I have is with doing an MLF. With everything happening so quickly, I didn't have time to order anything online. So, all my supplies came from my LHBS. They only stock the liquid White Labs MLB. So, I waited until the ferment really took off, then co-inoculated with the liquid White Labs. Hopefully, it takes off too. Time will tell.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 27, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> In mid-September, I resigned myself to the fact that I wasn't going to make wine from fresh grapes this year. Between work and time away from the house, I couldn't make the schedule work.
> 
> On October 21st, I got a call from a local vineyard operator who grows chard, merlot and cab franc. He said he would likely have some excess cab franc if I wanted some. They were picking on the 23rd. I could come down, pick what I wanted and go along my merry way. Too good to pass up. I picked 100 lbs with a "let's see if these PA grapes are any good" mindset.
> 
> ...



Nice! Maybe order some of your favorite MLB as an insurance policy. If you don't need it, freeze or refrigerate until next season.


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## jgmann67 (Oct 27, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Nice! Maybe order some of your favorite MLB as an insurance policy. If you don't need it, freeze or refrigerate until next season.



maybe. I’m a cheap sob, so I’m probably going to wait and see.


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## ceeaton (Oct 29, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> maybe. I’m a cheap sob, so I’m probably going to wait and see.


Order it (you cheap sob)!

Who did you get them from? Just curious...

The Cab Franc I got from just south of me near Spring Grove went through MLF with no issues, though I didn't use the White Labs concoction.


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## jgmann67 (Oct 29, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> Order it (you cheap sob)!
> 
> Who did you get them from? Just curious...
> 
> The Cab Franc I got from just south of me near Spring Grove went through MLF with no issues, though I didn't use the White Labs concoction.



The farm is in Willow Street, PA. Howard’s Farm.

The ferment is going famously. I’ll make a decision on the mlb next week.


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## ceeaton (Oct 29, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> The farm is in Willow Street, PA. Howard’s Farm.
> 
> The ferment is going famously. I’ll make a decision on the mlb next week.


I've heard they have good grapes. I've noticed my Cab Franc is on the light side, but that is from carboy tipping, it just turned 5 yrs old and I still haven't bottled it. I think I'm getting good at the procrastination side of wine making...


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## jgmann67 (Oct 29, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> I've heard they have good grapes. I've noticed my Cab Franc is on the light side, but that is from carboy tipping, it just turned 5 yrs old and I still haven't bottled it. I think I'm getting good at the procrastination side of wine making...



Dude?? Seriously??? 5 years? It’s time.


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## ceeaton (Oct 29, 2021)

That's a young one, lol!

I have a few of your wines still if you want to try them. I see a 2016 Chardonnay, a 2017 Amarone Della Valpolicella, a 2018 Chardonnay and a ton of the 50/50 Red blend. They don't call it a wine cellar for nothin'. And I wasn't even digging deep...


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## jgmann67 (Oct 29, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> That's a young one, lol!
> 
> I have a few of your wines still if you want to try them. I see a 2016 Chardonnay, a 2017 Amarone Della Valpolicella, a 2018 Chardonnay and a ton of the 50/50 Red blend. They don't call it a wine cellar for nothin'. And I wasn't even digging deep...



wow!


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## ceeaton (Oct 29, 2021)

I need to rearrange stuff, so I'm sure I can add more to that list. You'll just have to text me your address, I'm assuming you haven't moved again...I think I'm a whole 10 minutes tops from your place when I'm at work.


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## Donz (Oct 29, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> I've heard they have good grapes. I've noticed my Cab Franc is on the light side, but that is from carboy tipping, it just turned 5 yrs old and I still haven't bottled it. I think I'm getting good at the procrastination side of wine making...


That’s quite some time for bulk aging. Time to bottle!


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## ceeaton (Oct 29, 2021)

Donz said:


> That’s quite some time for bulk aging. Time to bottle!


I had an Italian neighbor. When I was younger, my parents would let me have a beer or a glass of wine on special occasions once I became a teenager. My neighbor made some "family wine" every year and would bulk age it for a few years before bottling. One year he kept a carboy of wine and aged it 5+ years and tipped the carboy for me and we tasted it beside a wine he had bottled from a younger vintage. Same type of grapes, same vineyard (and I know, year to year they can change quite a bit). The difference was incredible. He tried it on a hunch because his grandpa from the old world had suggested it when he was younger, but before he was making wine.

That has always stuck in my mind to this day. Yes, there are challenges to keep the wine as wine and not have it turn to vinegar (kmeta helps that). But he always said that it was worth losing a batch if the others went through the process and could be bottled.

So that is the story behind my procrastination.

Edit: and yes, that is how I learned to properly tip a carboy...


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## jgmann67 (Oct 31, 2021)

The Cab Franc is down to 1.000 as of yesterday. The cap isn’t nearly as tall, but the skins still rise pretty well. It’s been on the skins in the fermenter for 9 days now.

This is always my struggle - leave it on the skins a few more days or rack it now?

Regardless of how long I leave the wine on the skins, I don’t think these grapes will be as dark as the cab franc I’m used to. I might add some PS for color and body


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## jgmann67 (Nov 1, 2021)

Decision point on the Cab Franc - I'll be pressing the wine tomorrow morning (11 days on the skins).


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## stickman (Nov 1, 2021)

Remember, photos or it didn't happen.


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## jgmann67 (Nov 3, 2021)

It happened without incident. Got 7 gallons of wine in the basement. Added French heavy toast oak and will wait a couple weeks before testing.


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## Donz (Nov 4, 2021)

That is what we call a brand new ratchet press!


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## balatonwine (Nov 4, 2021)

Donz said:


> That is what we call a brand new ratchet press!


And she is a beaut.  

I did a full renovation and restoration of my press this year, and the lady looks great, but still not quite as good at this one. Some wrinkles simply can not be brushed away. Which is okay. She is an old lady, and age also has its own type of benefits.


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## jgmann67 (Nov 4, 2021)

Donz said:


> That is what we call a brand new ratchet press!



Practically, yes. This is my second season with it.


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## ceeaton (Nov 4, 2021)

What form of oak did you use?


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## jgmann67 (Nov 4, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> What form of oak did you use?



Spirals of heavy toast French.


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## ceeaton (Nov 4, 2021)

I'm finding that the Xoakers I used in earlier batches (aka 4 years ago) have a really good flavor. I do like the spirals though, they don't seem to take as long as the oakers to get the oak in there...


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## jgmann67 (Nov 22, 2021)

Went down to give the Cab Franc a look (and a smell, and a taste). It is light in color. It's got a nice bright strawberry taste and nose. Lighter bodied, too. I'm not UNHAPPY with it. But, it's also not as dark or as full bodied as I'd hoped. 

I'm going to rack the wine into a clean carboy and experiment a little bit. My thought is that I might add Petite Sirah, and maybe some Cab Sauv, to bump the color and body, and give it more complexity. As always, suggestions are welcome.


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 22, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> Went down to give the Cab Franc a look (and a smell, and a taste). It is light in color. It's got a nice bright strawberry taste and nose. Lighter bodied, too. I'm not UNHAPPY with it. But, it's also not as dark or as full bodied as I'd hoped.
> 
> I'm going to rack the wine into a clean carboy and experiment a little bit. My thought is that I might add Petite Sirah, and maybe some Cab Sauv, to bump the color and body, and give it more complexity. As always, suggestions are welcome.



I'm a big fan of adding PS to 'bulk up'.


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## bstnh1 (Mar 17, 2022)

Received this today. Juices in CT.



Below are tentative arrival dates for grapes and juices.​




South Africa:​
Arrival Estimates: The Pinotage will be here around mid April
Grapes Available from South Africa: Pinotage (only) SOLD OUT
Juices Available from South Africa: Shiraz, Merlot, Pinotage, Cabernet Sauvignon, Semillon, Chardonnay, Pinot Grigio, Chenin Blanc, and Sauvignon Blanc.
Fresco Juices Available from South Africa: Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon, Shiraz, Pinotage.


Chile:​
Arrival Estimates: The Chilean grapes and juices are waiting to harvest and should start arriving in mid-May. We will have more details soon.
Grapes Available from Chile: Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Carmenere, Malbec, Merlot, Petite Verdot, Pinot Noir, and Syrah. (*all Chilean grapes can be processed into Frozen Must by special order only – please call to put in your Frozen Must order)
Juices Available from Chile: Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Carmenere, Malbec, Merlot, Petite Verdot, Pinot Noir, Syrah, Chardonnay, Pinot Grigio, Sauvignon Blanc, Viognier, and Muscat.
Fresco Juices Available from Chile: Merlot, Malbec, Sauvignon Blanc, Carmenere, Viognier, Chardonnay, and Chardonnay/Semillon.


Australia:​
Arrival Estimates: The Australian Fresco juices should start arriving in late April, early May.
Fresco Juices Available from Australia: Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, Gewürztraminer, Merlot, Mourvedre, Orange Muscat, Petite Verdot, Riesling, and Shiraz.
Musto Wine Grape Company, LLC.
101 Reserve Road
Hartford, CT 06114
877-812-1137​



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## jgmann67 (Mar 17, 2022)

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm a big fan of adding PS to 'bulk up'.



The wine is a blend of about 7 gallons of Cab Franc, with 1+ gallons of Petite Sirah. It's been in the barrel since December and I've topped it up monthly with either PS or Cab Sauv. This will be the 5th batch through the barrel, so I'm thinking it's mostly neutral at this point. Planning to leave the wine in the barrel another couple months. My biggest dilemma will be what to put in the barrel once this blend comes out. Haven't tasted it since I blended them together in the barrel - not bad then. We'll give it a taste at the end of month and see where we are.


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