# Elderberry Wine



## Wade E (Aug 22, 2009)

Well I picked a 6 gallon bucket full of these little critters(with stems still). Tomorrow Ill take a pic of them before and after running a fork through them to destem them and see what the tally is. Theres still a lot more out there that I havent even got to and a bunch more that werent ready yet so either way I should be able to scrounge a 6 gallon batch out of them, I hope. These were pretty hard to get at and I almost rolled down a hill into a main road getting them! It was very hot here and I was dripping wet when done!


----------



## smurfe (Aug 23, 2009)

Your one dedicated fruit picker there my man. That ought to be enough to get you a fine batch.


----------



## Wade E (Aug 23, 2009)

This is it for fruit picking though as Im very tired of it now!!!!!!! I dont care if a grape vine sprang up in my yard with enough to make a batch! Yea right, Id be all over it. But really, I want to make a Peach wine to end this all and will probably go the week after next or maybe even next Sunday as Saturday is the big Ct. Wine Competition in which I am 1 of the judges.


----------



## St Allie (Aug 23, 2009)

6 gallons?

how much did the fruit weigh?

Allie


----------



## Wade E (Aug 23, 2009)

If I can get enough for a 6 gallon batch Im going for it, otherwise Ill do a 5 or 3. I dont do 1 gallon batches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I havent weighed yet but I have a 1 gallon bag and 1/4 of another and I havent even dented that 6 gallon bucket full yet. It took a few hours to get as far as I did destemming them into a bucket of water and then straining off the few that float and then dump the good ones into a sieve to dry while I work on the next batch so when I freeze these they dont turn into a block. Just weighed them and Ive got 6 lbs already.


----------



## Tom (Aug 23, 2009)

Wade,
I would get as much as you can then freeze till you have enough for a 5-6 gallon batch.
This is what I am doing with Blackbery and Raspberry. I want to make a 6 of each.


----------



## Wade E (Aug 23, 2009)

Thats what i always do and the 6 lbs are already frozen from this afternoon. I still have about 3/4 of the bucket I pcked that havent been destemmed as its painfully tedious. I have them soaking in cold water though.


----------



## mainecr (Aug 25, 2009)

I stumbled on an an elderberry pach today. How do you seperate the berries from the stalks?


----------



## Wade E (Aug 25, 2009)

Im no pro on these but getting there fast. What I did was snip the whol stem of berries and put them all in a bucket till I got home. Then I get 2 plastic buckets and a sieve and wet your fingers and gently roll the berries off the stems into a bucket with cool water in it. The floaters are the ones that are unripe and should go bye-bye. the ones that sink are what you want so strain off all floaters and then pour the goods ones int the sieve which will be resting on the other bucket and let that drip dry and then pour into freezer bags to frezze for at ;east a few days as this will break up the cellular structure of the berry so when you ferment the wine you can get maximum color and taste from these berries using pectic enzyme also. Some people run a fork through the stems but I found I was getting to many stalks that way and took just as long to seperate them later. This is very time consumng!!!!!!!!!!!! Each freezer bag holds approximately 6 lbs of these berries.


----------



## Luc (Aug 26, 2009)

Wade E said:


> Im no pro on these but getting there fast. What I did was snip the whol stem of berries and put them all in a bucket till I got home. Then I get 2 plastic buckets and a sieve and wet your fingers and gently roll the berries off the stems into a bucket with cool water in it.



You really are getting there fast 

The only differnce is that I clean them in the field. I roll them just like you off the stems in a bucket.

At home I fill another bucket with clean water and pour some berries in, stir well and indeed the unripe ones will float.

I am not using a comb either as indeed that will get you too many stems in.

Luc


----------



## upper (Oct 25, 2009)

I have de-stemmed about 50 pounds this year,and I am a Cowboy baby....Upper


----------



## Mud (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm ready to start on this tomorrow. I have 18 lbs of clean berries. It's mentioned elsewhere that elderberries have a lot of flavor, so maybe an f-pak is unnecessary if it's a 3 gallon batch with 6 lbs per gallon? I would like to sweeten it a bit when done, but not much. Any suggestions are welcome.

-rookie Mud


----------



## Wade E (Nov 21, 2009)

This stuff is potent and I think all youll have to do is make up a simple syrup after.


----------



## Mud (Nov 21, 2009)

Awesome. Thanks Wade.


----------



## Mud (Nov 22, 2009)

Turns out I had 21.5# of elderberries, so it's going to be a 4 gallon batch now. Nice to find a little extra.


----------



## Wade E (Nov 22, 2009)

That will be a nice batch there Chad. The color of this stuff is awesome along with the bouquet.


----------



## Mud (Nov 22, 2009)

What kind of yeast do you think, Wade?


----------



## Wade E (Nov 22, 2009)

I used Pasteur Red.


----------



## Mud (Nov 24, 2009)

It took a while for the berries to thaw, so I was finally able to pitch the yeast starter this morning. Wish me luck. Now.


----------



## non-grapenut (Nov 24, 2009)

Wade E said:


> If I can get enough for a 6 gallon batch Im going for it, otherwise Ill do a 5 or 3. I dont do 1 gallon batches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I havent weighed yet but I have a 1 gallon bag and 1/4 of another and I havent even dented that 6 gallon bucket full yet. It took a few hours to get as far as I did destemming them into a bucket of water and then straining off the few that float and then dump the good ones into a sieve to dry while I work on the next batch so when I freeze these they dont turn into a block. Just weighed them and Ive got 6 lbs already.



Beauties! Thems some perty berries, there, Wade. So you used a fork to de-stem them, huh? I used a hair pick..larger mouth = faster processing. We, also, had to fight the stink bugs here in the FL panhandle for them berries..had to process outside due to this. I have a 5gal primary of 3lbs elderberry and 3 lbs of blackberry...Luc shared his recipe with me. I added some spice (ginger, clove) and, I tell you what, it tastes like NOTHING I have ever tasted. When I boiled and processed the berries, though, my plastic containers/utensils got a green goo on them that only came off with cooking oil. Beware the goo!!!! I do agree that these happen to be the hardest berries to pick and process, but I am really looking forward to the result.


----------



## Wade E (Nov 24, 2009)

I started with the fork but eventually just wet my fingers and rolled them off, it was faster this way and with wet finger they didnt stain them much at all.


----------



## Mud (Nov 24, 2009)

I did the same as Wade. The fork was causing too many berries to burst or oftn the stem would break off with the berry. Didn't have any sort of staining problem at all.


----------



## myakkagldwngr (Nov 24, 2009)

That green goop is some really nasty stuff. I got some on a plastic primary and just about never got rid of it. All total I did three batches of elderberry. Being they were free for the picking that was my first attempt at making vino.
The first batch has a little taste that is unusual compared to the second and third. I'm trying to give it plenty of time to come around and then if I'm unhappy with it, I'll deal with it another way.


----------



## Wade E (Nov 24, 2009)

Use vegetable oil or olive oil to remove it, I dont know why but it breals up that green goo very easily unlike most other cleaners.


----------



## Mud (Nov 25, 2009)

The yeast finally kicked with enthusiasm last night. The house smells like awesomeness. This is my favorite part of the process.


----------



## Mud (Nov 27, 2009)

I racked the wine Thanksgiving morning when the gravity was around 1.02. Was supposed to be making breakfast, but wine and tide waits for no man. 

Washing out the primary with canola oil was no problem, but the straining bag was a little tougher. I soaked it in canola oil for a day but it still wouldn't rinse off, si I stuck it in the dishwasher. Worked a treat. What little is left on it will brush off as soon as it dries.


----------



## upper (Nov 27, 2009)

*Goo*

That sounds great Mud,I guess I am lucky in that I have made 4 batches and no goo as of yet.I used only 3.5 pounds of berries per gallon............Upper


----------



## Wade E (Nov 27, 2009)

No goo, is it done fermenting? My primary was a mess!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mud (Nov 27, 2009)

Lucky guy. That goo is a pain in the ***. Wonder if it's got something to do with plant type?


----------



## Wade E (Nov 27, 2009)

Upper, did you juce these with steam as Ive heard that method works as far as not having the goo.


----------



## Midwest Vintner (Nov 28, 2009)

just opened a bottle of our eldeberry last night. it was great! ultra smooth and lots of flavor. i think we may have put too many #'s per gallon as it was really thick. the taste wasn't too strong, but the wine seemed like it was really heavy. seems like we could have dropped a # or two a gallon and got enough flavor and make it a lil lighter in body. seemed like it was just straight juice w/out any alcohol. made for easy drinking, though.

mud, lol @ wine waits for no man. hope it comes out great as i like this wine.


----------



## Mud (Nov 28, 2009)

Thanks, MV. How many lbs per gallon did you use? I'd like to know about that steam extraction thing, too.


----------



## Midwest Vintner (Nov 28, 2009)

we used 8 gallons of frozen berries to 3 gallon batch. i think we could have done a 5 gallon and had plenty of flavor. it was hard to tell exacty how much fruit was there, as there was alot of ice. we did use it, but figured it had added more water than it did.


----------



## Mud (Nov 28, 2009)

My gallon bags had about 5 lbs in each, maybe 5.5. One had 7lbs, but it was almost impossible to close. You used a lot. Probably 10# per gallon or more. :<


----------



## Midwest Vintner (Nov 28, 2009)

Mud said:


> My gallon bags had about 5 lbs in each, maybe 5.5. One had 7lbs, but it was almost impossible to close. You used a lot. Probably 10# per gallon or more. :<



it wasn't my idea. my dad likes to use alot of fruit. it was free from a family members freezer. we know alot of farmers, but they aren't close. so we only get things like that on occasion. maybe we should have them weigh it before freezing?

although, it is actually not overpowering taste. it's tastes like an aged red wine, just gotta warm it up to get it to flow. lol


----------



## Mud (Nov 28, 2009)

No criticism intended. Sorry if it sounded like that.


----------



## upper (Nov 29, 2009)

*Goo*

Sorry for the late reply,I just got back from the mountains.I flashed boiled my berries,little more than just boiling water.I even had to make a batch out of some Extract that went off in tha Mason,s.Re-boiled it and pitched the yeast after it cooled.This was before I had K-meta...........Upper.P.S. racked it the other day it is very nice.Upper


----------



## Midwest Vintner (Nov 30, 2009)

Mud said:


> No criticism intended. Sorry if it sounded like that.



eh, no problem. criticism isn't always a bad thing. i know we had put waaaaay tooooo much in there when i tasted it. i didn't actually make it, i may have racked and bottled it, but my father house has all our wine. i don't live there and that is why i usually say "we" in my posts. anyhow, he likes to experiment and see exactly how much #'s/gal change things. especially when the fruit is free. you are right, it was too much and we could have made 8 gallons or more with it. somehow, the taste was NOT too overpowering. after hearing how much was there, i was amazed. tasted good, but it was almost the consistency of milk! the batch had almost 2 years worth of aging, which probably helped mellow it a little.


----------



## Mud (Feb 19, 2010)

After this cleared a bit it turned out that the body and flavor were a little much. I ended up making it 6 gallons by adding more water and sugar. Now it's been racked once and is ready to be racked again. I'd like to add a fining agent now so it can be bottled soon. Reading up a little and it seems using chitosan & kieselsol is the way to go. Thoughts?


----------



## Wade E (Feb 19, 2010)

I find that those 2 ingredients work the best and the fastest. SuperKleer KC is the brand I use get and its all in one package seperated into 2. It works almost over night but let it sit for about 2 weeks with the carboy tilted to let the lees compact into 1 corner so you can rack with no transfer when its ready.


----------



## Julie (Feb 20, 2010)

Elderberry is probably my favorite wine. I have a friend who has elderberries growing on her property so I get about 40 pounds of elderberries from her every year. Yes there is a lot of work but boy is it worth it.

I freeze the berries first then shake them off of the stems. I use 3# per gallon and make seconds. Also I backsweeten to 1.005 and use a little corn syrup for backsweetening.

This year I lightly oaked the full body.


----------



## Mud (Feb 20, 2010)

You're lucky the freezing bit works. What I got off without thawing and running all over my hands was full of stems. 

What do you mean by "seconds"?


----------



## Julie (Feb 20, 2010)

Mud said:


> You're lucky the freezing bit works. What I got off without thawing and running all over my hands was full of stems.
> 
> What do you mean by "seconds"?



I had found on another website there was an elderberry thread and some of the people said that they did not worry too much on getting stems in the wine. So I don't and my wine comes out very good. Yes I make sure I get out as much as I can but I don't fuss over it. Also, it helps if you have someone else helping you so you can get through the process before the berries are all defrosted.

I put the berries in a straing bag leave in the primary for about 3 days, lightly squeeze take the bag out and put it in another primary and add white grape concentrate to make another 6 gallon. This makes an elderberry blush. 

For the amount of work you do with these little berries it sure feels good when you can get double on your return.

If you are interested I can post the recipe.


----------



## BobF (Feb 20, 2010)

Julie said:


> I had found on another website there was an elderberry thread and some of the people said that they did not worry too much on getting stems in the wine. So I don't and my wine comes out very good. Yes I make sure I get out as much as I can but I don't fuss over it. Also, it helps if you have someone else helping you so you can get through the process before the berries are all defrosted.
> 
> I put the berries in a straing bag leave in the primary for about 3 days, lightly squeeze take the bag out and put it in another primary and add white grape concentrate to make another 6 gallon. This makes an elderberry blush.
> 
> ...


 
Julie - I would like to see your recipes. I have my first elderberry batch clearing now - I didn't make second run. I think I would also feel better if I was getting more for the effort


----------



## Julie (Feb 20, 2010)

Here goes. I got the recipe from another site by a guy named Paul. The only thing I do different is to I use water for the first batch, the full body and then use grape concentrate for the blush.

Elderberry Wine
This recipe makes five gallons of elderberry wine and another five gallons of elderberry blush. In the beginning, when pressing the berries, do a thorough job because they don’t break open as easy as you might think. 



Ingredients:

15 Pounds Fresh Elderberries
2 Gallons Water
6 11.5 Oz. Cans Welch’s Frozen White Grape Juice 
7-8 Pounds Sugar, approximately (enough to bring S. G. to 1.090-1.095)
2-3 Tbls. Acid Blend approximately (enough to bring acid level to 0.65)
2 Tbls. Yeast Nutrient
2 tsp Pectic Enzyme
5 Campden Tablets, Crushed
1 Packet Lalvin RC 212 Yeast

Instructions:

Place the frozen elderberries in a nylon bag, tie the top of the bag and place in a nonreactive container that will hold at least four gallons. When the elderberries are thawed, press thoroughly, and cover with two gallons of boiling water. After the mixture cools, add pectic enzyme, cover and let it sit for 12 hours. Remove the nylon bag and allow it to drip until it stops. DO NOT SQUEEZE or you will get a green substance that will have a bitter taste to it. When this is complete, transfer the contents of the container to a primary and return the nylon bag to the container and cover. This will make the 5 gallons of blush, so when finished with the wine recipe, you will cover the nylon bag with two more gallons of boiling water and repeat the entire process. Thaw the six cans of white grape juice, add it to the primary, and bring the water level up to the five gallon mark. Take a reading with your hydrometer and add enough sugar to bring the specific gravity to approximately 1.090-1.095. Stir until all sugar is well dissolved. If you have a TA kit, check the titratable acidity and correct it to 0.65. Add the yeast nutrient, and the crushed campden tablets. Wait 24 hours and add the yeast. Cover the primary with a cloth and check the S.G. daily. When the must reaches 1.010 in approximately one week, rack to a secondary and put under an air lock. Rack again in two weeks and then every two months until clear.

Stabilize, add 5 campden tablets, wait ten days and bottle. I like to add ½ to 1 cup of light corn syrup mixed with 1-2 cups of hot water at bottling to give it a smooth taste. 

Repeat the process to make another five gallons of elderberry blush.


----------



## Mud (Feb 20, 2010)

I second that! <covers face in shame and sneaks away>

-oops. posting same time as Julie-


----------



## BobF (Feb 20, 2010)

Julie said:


> Here goes. I got the recipe from another site by a guy named Paul. The only thing I do different is to I use water for the first batch, the full body and then use grape concentrate for the blush.
> 
> Elderberry Wine
> This recipe makes five gallons of elderberry wine and another five gallons of elderberry blush. In the beginning, when pressing the berries, do a thorough job because they don’t break open as easy as you might think.
> ...


 

Thanks! To clarify the last line, are you making two second runs or one second run?

It almost sounds like you're getting 15g out of one batch of berries


----------



## Julie (Feb 20, 2010)

No, you are only making one second run. I should re-do those instructions, I copied them as they were posted.


----------



## Jbuck (Feb 21, 2010)

*brings back memories*

I just started making wine yesterday, but I do have fond memories of picking elderberries with my grandmother some 45 years ago. We picked stem and all, put in paper bag them pulled the berry off the stem sitting around the table at grandmaw's that night. She made jelly.


----------



## Julie (Feb 21, 2010)

Jbuck said:


> I just started making wine yesterday, but I do have fond memories of picking elderberries with my grandmother some 45 years ago. We picked stem and all, put in paper bag them pulled the berry off the stem sitting around the table at grandmaw's that night. She made jelly.



My Mom always made elderberry jelly, that is where I got my love for elderberries. You need to fine that elderberry patch and make wine from it now. You are gonna love it.

Oh by the way, Welcome to Winemakingtalk.


----------



## jtstar (Sep 28, 2010)

*Attention Julie*



Julie said:


> Here goes. I got the recipe from another site by a guy named Paul. The only thing I do different is to I use water for the first batch, the full body and then use grape concentrate for the blush.
> 
> Elderberry Wine
> This recipe makes five gallons of elderberry wine and another five gallons of elderberry blush. In the beginning, when pressing the berries, do a thorough job because they don’t break open as easy as you might think.
> ...



Hi Julie 
On this recipe you say that you use water the first time you make it you use water it's not real clear how much water you use the first time can you post this information I am very interested in using your recipe this will be my first time for elderberry wine.
Thanks


----------



## Julie (Sep 28, 2010)

jtstar said:


> Hi Julie
> On this recipe you say that you use water the first time you make it you use water it's not real clear how much water you use the first time can you post this information I am very interested in using your recipe this will be my first time for elderberry wine.
> Thanks



Hi JT,

I know the recipe is a little confusing, I got if from someone else. The ingredients listed are for each carboy. So when you the first batch, instead of using welch's white grape juice I add more water. When it comes time to take the berries and place them into another carboy to make the seconds I add the welch'e grape juice.

Does this help? Also, I keep the acid level around .65% to .68%


----------



## livsmom (Mar 18, 2013)

could you use freeze dried berries just wondering


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Mar 18, 2013)

I think the dried ones might have an even better taste then the fresh ones, kind of like rasins vs grapes, a bit deeper and richer. WVMJ


----------



## non-grapenut (Aug 4, 2013)

Mud said:


> Lucky guy. That goo is a pain in the ***. Wonder if it's got something to do with plant type?



It's apparently oil-based if oil dissolves it off the walls of your primary. My first guess is it comes from the Berry seeds. I'm going to try using just juice with this year's crop. I will let you all know if the goop thing gets solved. Lynn


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Aug 4, 2013)

*Cleaning the Green Goo: A Nonpolar Nightmare*

*We dont get too excited about a few little stems in our berries, it would just take forever to get every single one of them. Do make sure to get out any green berries as unripe berries are said to cause nausea. A green goo or grunge, made of some nonpolar products from the elderberry plant, especially high in the green berries and possibly stems, can build up on the sides of the primary. Nonpolar substances are not water soluble and are resistant to cleaning by soap and almost anything else. In the April 2003 edition of Wine Maker magazine, in the Readers Tip: Elderberry Ooze, Dave Moyer suggested to use canola oil to remove the green goo. Also, one of the worlds leading experts in fruit winemaking, Mr. Jack Keller (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/) has determined that simple vegetable oil will dissolve the grunge, and then the vegetable oil can we washed off with dish soap to clean the primary. We used vegetable oil to clean the green elderberry gunk from our primary and can testify that it works very well. *

*Fermenting in Plastic Food Grade Bags.*

*We have also experimented with plastic food grade bags lining the primary and these have worked well for barrels but for just a five gallon primary are too much trouble. The nice thing about the bags is after you transfer the wine out of the primary you just throw the bag away. Barrel bags from www.bestcontainers.com/. *



non-grapenut said:


> It's apparently oil-based if oil dissolves it off the walls of your primary. My first guess is it comes from the Berry seeds. I'm going to try using just juice with this year's crop. I will let you all know if the goop thing gets solved. Lynn



WVMJ


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

Hello Everyone! I'm new to this forum and to winemaking in general! I'm really excited about getting into making lots of different stuff at home! My husband has been making hard apple cider and beer for a few years already but I hadn't really gotten involved in the important details!

We have dabbled on making wine from kits a bit. Last year was my first year of making a 5 gallon batch of wine from some different varieties of red and Concord grapes that we grow here. It turned out lovely! We bought our farm almost 7 years ago and have planted various fruit and grapes with the intention of doing our own wines here. 

Ok to the point now! I found this recipe for the elderberry wine and blush and was very excited to try it. So we picked almost 30lbs of elderberries and I have started 2 - 5 gallon batches of the wine and 2 - 5 gallon batches of the blush. The only thing is that one batch had the full 15lbs of berries and the 2nd batch came up short at about 13 or 14lbs. I had extra white grape concentrate on hand (4 cans) I was going to put them all in the batch of red that had the less berries. But not paying attention I put 2 of them in the 15lb batch and 2 in the 13lb batch. 

Should I add more grape red or white grape concentrate to the 13lb batch of red? What about the batch of blush that I am using the 13lbs of berries in? The sg reading on the must of the two reds came to somewhere between 1.090 and 1.095 on both last night just before pitching the yeast. 

My 2 batches of blush are waiting for the campden to disperse and I will be pitching in the yeast for those tonight. I've labelled everything including the yeast used. I could not ind the Lalvin RC-212 anywhere. So I used Lalvin EC-1118 for both reds and plan to use Lalvin 71B-1122 and K1-V1116 on the blushes. It'll be interesting to see how they all differ. 

I was confused about how long to keep the fruit in the red must for so I think I left it for 12 or 24 hours. I followed a recipe somewhere else for the reds as it wasn't listed here. It called for 10lbs sugar to the 15lbs of fruit. Why does the blush only have 7-8lbs of sugar? Which is best? 7 or 8lbs? Or just add to get an sg reading around the same as the reds? Sorry for all the questions I hate being confused lol! I also read never to ferment on these fruit for more than 4 days, any advice on that? 

Any advice and guidance would be much appreciated! I look forward to learning a lot from you folks here on the forum! Carolyn


----------



## Loner (Sep 10, 2013)

I would advise that you use the poundage as a guideline only. I would add 2/3 of what's called for and then take a hydrometer reading and add sugar to get my starting gravity up to 1.090. If your ferment to dry you will be in the 12% abv range on your finished product.


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

Thank you! I have read that as well and the same info on adding acid blend if called for so I think I may have been lucky this time in putting the amount of sugar called for as the SG did read in that range just before adding the yeast. I did find it a bit confusing doing the acid test because for me the colour on my drops went from purple (natural colour of wine must to purplish blue) I never quite saw grey or maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me. I did add the solution to the test jar in .5cc increments.


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

I just read on another elderberry thread to leave the fruit in the re must for 3 days? I left mine in for only 12-24 hours. I did not squeeze the straining bags or let all the juice drip out of them before transferring them to other primaries to start my blushes. Will this be a problem? Right now the berries are the primaries for my blush batches and no yeast has been added to those batches yet. Could I ferment them in the blush batches for 3 days and then remove them and put them back into my red batches? Even though the reds I just started with yeast last night? After all the work I picking and cleaning these berries I would not want to screw up my elderberry wine! 

I also read that after the blush 2nds I could make a "skeeter pee" with the same berries?? I found the link to skeeter.com and will check the recipe out. I never heard of that name before but it sure is fitting!


----------



## Loner (Sep 10, 2013)

I've never made elderberry but would have left the fruit in at least until the sg dropped to 1.040. Taking it out early like you did will cost you in both flavor and color. Your pectin needs at least three days to extract the good stuff from your fruit. It's your wine .. If you are happy with it like this so be it. If you are looking for Max color and flavor you should leave it in a bit longer next time.


----------



## pjd (Sep 10, 2013)

I leave mine in for a week. If I were you, I would put them back in for a few more days. you still will have enough goodies for your second run.


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm definitely going for max flavor and colour it just seemed that the recipe I was following on a thread here for the red and the blush from the same berries said to take the fruit oh of the reds after 12 hours and then transfer it to new primaries for the blush. So now my question is can I allow the blush to ferment for a few days on the fruit and then transfer the fruit back to the reds that I just started? Or... Since I haven't pitched the yeast yet for the blush, can I store the juice I have already made and transfer fruit back to the red primaries now, allow them to ferment and then transfer it back to the blush primaries when I'm done fermenting the reds? Thanks for your response! I appreciate it! I have a large fridge that I could store the 2 blush primaries in... They have already been treated with everything but the yeast!


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

Ah wonderful sorry I didn't see your post until after I asked my questions! So should I store blush in fridge while reds are fermenting on the fruit? Also my blush isn't very blush anyways. It's almost as dark as my reds because I didn't squeeze the fruit out or keep it in the original primaries to ferment in the first place!


----------



## pjd (Sep 10, 2013)

ckvchestnut said:


> I'm definitely going for max flavor and colour it just seemed that the recipe I was following on a thread here for the red and the blush from the same berries said to take the fruit oh of the reds after 12 hours and then transfer it to new primaries for the blush. So now my question is can I allow the blush to ferment for a few days on the fruit and then transfer the fruit back to the reds that I just started? Or... Since I haven't pitched the yeast yet for the blush, can I store the juice I have already made and transfer fruit back to the red primaries now, allow them to ferment and then transfer it back to the blush primaries when I'm done fermenting the reds? Thanks for your response! I appreciate it! I have a large fridge that I could store the 2 blush primaries in... They have already been treated with everything but the yeast!


.
That is a good plan, Put the berries back into the first batch for a couple more days and put the second run primaries in the fridge. Don't be in a hurry, three days in the primary is a minimum with me. I usually go a week. Good luck and I hope you love it as much as I do mine. I made 15 gallons this year and skipped doing the second run.


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks so much! I'll try to go for the 5-7 days I'm hoping that in the fridge the blush juice will keep well for that long! I did put the campden in them already so maybe that will help? Also I only put in half the called for sugar so after putting the fruit back in I can adjust both the sugars and the acid as needed! I'm very excited! This is my first time making the elderberry wine. The recipe is from the Eckraus page. What recipe do you follow?? What taste style do you end up with? Sorry or all the novice questions. I have to say this is such a fun learning adventure! I have tons of muscadines to harvest this year and less grapes we had a very dismal rainy summer this year, so I was thinking of mixing muscadines with my Concordes when everything is finally ripe! 

Because I did what I did will I effectively end up with 4 batches of 2nd run type reds? I definitely don't think my intended blushes will turn out blush (thinking pink) maybe a bright red... I was looking to end up with a crisp fruity taste to the blushes and the more fullbody red for the reds!


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

One other thought I had is I could put the blush juice in my chest freezer on a low setting and start defrosting it 2-3 days before I need it. But would freezing the juice change the flavor, quality or other properties for the wine?


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 10, 2013)

Good golly, your questions are all over the place. With elderberries its very easy to extract the color and flavor, they are just small berries with thin skins. The contact time for elders has to do more with how much tannins you want extracted. Leave them in for a long time and you get a more tannic wine, take them out sooner, like after 3 days, and you get a fruitier less tannic wine. You can make a seconds from the berries, as you learned there is an almost unlimited supply of color from elders. You are using EC1118 for your big red so you can easily keep the fruit in longer with that yeast and keep feeding it a little sugar to boost the alcohol to balance with the higher tannins. Since you already put your berries in the red with yeast your blush will also have EC1118 so dont be surprised when it eats all your sugar. Are you using a hydrometer? WVMJ


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks so much for your response! And that sounds like a great plan to add sugars during the primary fermentation only or also the secondary? Sorry I know all over the place lol! 

Well, actually what I did was take the fruit out Of the primaries for my big reds prior to pitching the yeast. Then I made juice for the blush, but now I have already put the berries back into the fermenting red primaries. I have 1 pkg of the 1118 yeast (from 2012 hence why I haven't used it yet) left and I have the K1-V1116 and 71B-1122 yeasts that I intended to use for the blushes. Thought the latter would help give a fruity taste based on my LIMITED reading experience! Lol 

Would it be weird or bad to have the berries that fermented with the 1118 then be fermented by these new yeasts? I haven't topped up with the total amount of water or sugar or acid for the blushes yet... I appreciate all your patience everyone!! I figured the only way to learn was to join a forum with a wealth of knowledgable people on board!


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

So for the blush since its already a deep red, how long would you recommend fermenting on the berries for that one if I want less tannins than my big reds? And for the reds?


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

Oops yes I have a hydrometer... I took the S.G. reading tonight batch 1 was at 1.102 batch 2 was at 1.105 with a must temp of 70 degrees F. This is 24 hours after pitching the yeast.


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 10, 2013)

And the batch with higher S.G. reading had 2 more pounds of fruit in it.


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 11, 2013)

Sorry to be a pain! I found my answer about yeast on another thread that basically if I put my fruit that are being fermented by EC-1118 will now only ferment by the same yeast in my 2nds for the blush. However as I was going through the recipe I hadn't originally intended to put the fruit back in after fermentation. Hence why i was going to start the blushes on new yeast. 

Question: is it better to put the fruit back in and just allow the 1118 to ferment on the new juice and the skins and pulp and sacrifice having a lighter fruitier taste on the blush by putting it on the fruit longer? Or could I get away with not putting the fruit back in and starting a new ferment with my other yeasts? The juice already ha the fruit and pectic enzyme in it for 24 hours. And it's already a dark red colour. I really don't want too much tannin in the blush so that I can have a lighter fruitier taste but don't want to sacrifice having no body at all.

What about fermenting that fruit in the reds for a full 7 days or until dry and then pressing out as much of the juice as possible and then begin my ferment for the blushes and hopefully not add too much tannins and more colour?


----------



## Stressbaby (Sep 12, 2013)

Does anyone have thoughts on the cold soak described in this recipe?


----------



## Julie (Sep 12, 2013)

Stressbaby said:


> Does anyone have thoughts on the cold soak described in this recipe?



Extracting color from the elderberries is very easy, I do not see any reason to cold soak. Actually, I wonder how much wine this guy has made, I seen a couple of things he said that caused me to wonder. 

WVMouintainerrJack has explained the best method. Three days in make a very good color and very fruity wine. Take the bag put it in another bucket and make a blush, use some Welch's white grape OR another flavor, Cherry and Elderberry makes a very good second run.


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 12, 2013)

That's helps me too thanks Julie! Any thoughts on the addition to adding sultana raisins to blush elderberry recipes? What properties do they offer flavor or otherwise? Would it be too strong a flavor to add a cup to a 5 gallon batch?


----------



## ckvchestnut (Sep 12, 2013)

I went and did a search on the raisins so I'm not such a pain with all my questions!


----------

