# Apple wine



## Tinwakr (Nov 10, 2018)

I started fermentation of a gallon of apple wine a week ago.


Now a week later the fermentation has slowed considerably, when do I rack into another container?


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## BernardSmith (Nov 10, 2018)

Hi Tinwakr - and welcome.
When do you rack? When the gravity drops to about 1.005. Two reasons for racking - one is to remove the wine from the gross lees and the other is to make sure that there is no head-room between the top of the wine and the bottom of the bung. Ensuring that the secondary is filled right up into the neck means that you are inhibiting oxidation: during active fermentation the yeast produce enough CO2 to blanket the wine and so prevent air getting at the fruit. After active fermentation ceases that blanket gets very thin and eventually disappears and the space is taken up with air - and air contains oxygen and oxygen is not good for wine at this stage.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 11, 2018)

I just racked into another gallon jug just to get oak chips off but wasn’t quite finished fermentation (I didn’t want the oak flavour to be overpowering). 
Thus the lees was left behind as well. Need advice as to what to do from this point, top up with juice and add more yeast or will fermentation get going on its own again after topping off to within 1-1/2” from stopper?


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## G259 (Nov 11, 2018)

Yes, I would top up and let the floating stuff drop out. Maybe give it a few gentle nudges (or small spin), to get that stuff off of the sides, and start to sink. Gentle, you don't want to stir up what has already sank.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 11, 2018)

No more yeast then?


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## G259 (Nov 11, 2018)

If you still have an active fermentation, then no. What is the SG, do you have a hydrometer (they're cheap)?


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## Tinwakr (Nov 11, 2018)

G259 said:


> If you still have an active fermentation, then no. What is the SG, do you have a hydrometer (they're cheap)?



Original SG 1.112
Now after one week 1.070


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## G259 (Nov 11, 2018)

High starting SG, and as long as you see fairly rapid airlock movement, I think you're good to go. Depending on where you finish, you'll have either a sweet wine, or one with high alcohol. That is,if the yeast can handle high alcohol, what kind was it?


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## Tinwakr (Nov 11, 2018)

G259 said:


> High starting SG, and as long as you see fairly rapid airlock movement, I think you're good to go. Depending on where you finish, you'll have either a sweet wine, or one with high alcohol. That is,if the yeast can handle high alcohol, what kind was it?



1118


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## G259 (Nov 11, 2018)

Oh yeah, that'll work. I once made an apple wine at 16-17% using EC-1118. Lol! It wasn't fine wine, but it was HOT! I suppose everyone goes through that. BTW, some good calculators for wine: winecalc and fermcalc, both free and down-loadable.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 11, 2018)

G259 said:


> Oh yeah, that'll work. I once made an apple wine at 16-17% using EC-1118. Lol! It wasn't fine wine, but it was HOT! I suppose everyone goes through that. BTW, some good calculators for wine: winecalc and fermcalc, both free and down-loadable.



Thank you!


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## BernardSmith (Nov 11, 2018)

The other thing is that you want to add oak - when you do - only after the wine is in the secondary and you are monitoring the taste for the oak. The idea being that depending on the quantity of oak and the depth of toast and the amount of flavor you are seeking you may need to rack the wine off the oak after a week or two or three or... Adding oak to the primary reduces all control you have over the amount of oakiness the oak can impart - in part because normally you want to rack off the lees when gravity drops close to 1.005 or thereabouts and in part because the action of the yeast producing CO2 will blow off flavors that would otherwise remain in the secondary after active fermentation has ceased and in part because the alcohol in the secondary is better suited to extract flavors than the water in the primary, alcohol being a far better solvent than water.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 11, 2018)

BernardSmith said:


> The other thing is that you want to add oak - when you do - only after the wine is in the secondary and you are monitoring the taste for the oak. The idea being that depending on the quantity of oak and the depth of toast and the amount of flavor you are seeking you may need to rack the wine off the oak after a week or two or three or... Adding oak to the primary reduces all control you have over the amount of oakiness the oak can impart - in part because normally you want to rack off the lees when gravity drops close to 1.005 or thereabouts and in part because the action of the yeast producing CO2 will blow off flavors that would otherwise remain in the secondary after active fermentation has ceased and in part because the alcohol in the secondary is better suited to extract flavors than the water in the primary, alcohol being a far better solvent than water.



Thank you.

I am as green as green gets as far as wine making goes. I appreciate all advice here. Makes sense to do the flavouring at the second stage.


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## BernardSmith (Nov 11, 2018)

You are very welcome.
There is some truth in adding flavorings to the secondary but I think that really applies more if you might use the alcohol to extract flavors and if those flavors are not perhaps playing a central but a supporting role. I think you may want to ferment fruit in the primary although here too you MAY want to add some more of the fruit to the secondary. There is a perceptibly different flavor to fruit depending when you add them to the mix,


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## G259 (Nov 11, 2018)

I realize that you are new to this (as am I -2 years), so here are a few relevant links (bookmark at least the first one).

http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

https://www.brewersfriend.com/chaptalization-calculator/

https://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/


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## Sean (Nov 12, 2018)

Started a batch of hard apple cider yesterday. Got 6L of apple juice from the store yesterday. I only sweetened to 1.070 though. Intend to ferment until dry then put in some fliptops and carbonate. 

I didnt realise that the sugar was using to sweeten had some sweetner in it. So will have to see what does. Hopefully it wont ruin the batch.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 13, 2018)

I didn’t add any acid blend or tannins, are they required and when can they be added?


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## BernardSmith (Nov 13, 2018)

Others may have a different opinion but acid blend you want to add only if your wines need additional acidity to give the wine some more zing. Yeast really does not need any acidity to ferment. Quite the opposite - too much acidity stresses the yeast. So best to add any acidity after fermentation has ended. pH is sorta kinda critical for preservation. The lower the pH (within reason) the more shelf life your wine will have and the longer it can age (and the less K-meta you need to add to inhibit oxidation) but taste has little to do with pH . pH is a measure of the strength of the acids in the wine. You can have a lot of strong acids or a little and the pH would be the same. There is another metric that wine makers use and that is TA or titratable acidity - and that is a measure of the amount of acids in solution. Now you can measure this with a kit and generally speaking most wines taste better when the TA is around 6g/L But your taste buds are a good tool for this too. Does your wine have enough of that zinginess to make it "sparkle" or does it taste dull? Like salt, you should only add acidity if your wine really needs it. 
Tannins are like gluten in bread (I think), they provide the structure, the form, the richness of a wine. If a fruit is not known to be high in tannin, I would add some. I add tannin to the primary. Tannins are the mouth drying quality that some fruits have. Unripe persimmons have tannins by the bushel, as do green bananas, and chestnuts (and chestnuts are one source of tannin).


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## G259 (Nov 14, 2018)

. . . add them sooner than later.


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## DKing (Nov 14, 2018)

I would like others' opinion on this:
I am new to wine making and did a 2 gallon batch of apple wine from homemade cider (a tree in our yard). Sweetened with combo of sugar, brown sugar and honey.
Hydro reading SG 1.120 (28 brix)
Lalvin EC-1118 yeast.
I also really wanted to go with no chemicals etc. Unfortunately I boiled my cider to kill natural yeast which caused a release of pectin. So I had a cloud issue. I did not use fining agents. When all said and done, I used potassium sorbate then back sweetened with a bit of honey and sugar. After bottling and letting it sit for a month, I opened a bottle to taste about 1 oz. It was better than expected. I refrigerated the rest of the bottle and left on a business trip for a week. When I came back it had cleared completely. I had a beautiful golden elixer... And it was delicious. I then refrigerated all the other bottles, let them clear then rebottled because of all the sediment. 
My question are: Is this a legitimate way to clear wine? Would this work for other wines? Was I just lucky? Any other comments would be great too.


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## Scooter68 (Nov 14, 2018)

That can work. Most folks do that before bottling of course. I have a stubborn 3 gallon batch of peach wine that has cleared somewhat after a couple of days outside in the lower 40s temps. Right now it 24 outside headed towards about 35 today so I'm going to put that carboy out side. The alcohol content should protect it from freezing until the temps rise in a couple of hours 

Cold crashing as it's called does help clear some wines in some situations.


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## meadmaker1 (Nov 14, 2018)

You could have cold crash the intire batch befor bottling. Depending on how large the batch, there ard a variety of ways to do this. Gallon jugs in a fridge. A dedicated fridge for carboys or i use a container that holds a carboy and i ice it. Sometimes adding salt to make colder. Some climates yoj can just stick them outside


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## BernardSmith (Nov 14, 2018)

Hi DKing - and welcome. Looks like what you are doing is hijacking a thread started by another member. In forums like this that is considered as impolite but as you are a newcomer I assume that no one will make a big deal out of this, but always best to start a new thread if you are starting a new conversation. OK. That said, "cold crashing" is a technique that brewers (makers of beer) tend to engage in more than wine makers. Perhaps they need their gratification more quickly. Brewing, after all, takes - what? - about a month and you can be drinking that beer in another couple of weeks. Wine tends to take months to age and you generally think about drinking the wine you made after a year or so at soonest. But placing a carboy or bottle in the fridge forces the yeast out of suspension and I suspect as the yeast fall towards the bottom they drag with them all kinds of particles floating in suspension. Add to that the pressure exerted by all the CO2 that is likely saturating your wine (unless you degas) at room temperature now drops as the temperature falls and that drop in pressure allows more particles to fall out of suspension. Indeed, when I rack from primary to secondary , and I generally make a larger volume than will fit my secondary I bottle the extra with the sediment (the lees) and place this bottle (mason jar) in the fridge and after 24-48 hours all the liquid has separated from the sediment. Cold crashing. It's a useful technique.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 14, 2018)

Well, a week and a half and the apple wine is still bubbling away, I checked the SG today and is at 1.050. Is this normal for apple wine to ferment this long?


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## Arne (Nov 15, 2018)

Tinwakr said:


> Well, a week and a half and the apple wine is still bubbling away, I checked the SG today and is at 1.050. Is this normal for apple wine to ferment this long?



Maybe. I have had ferments blow thru in 3 or 4 days. Have also had them take well over a month. Probably average a week and a half to two weeks. Believe it has to do with temperatures (warm temps make faster ferments, cooler temps slow them down), nutrients, amount of sulfites, health and kind of yeast, getting enough oxygen to the ferment, and maybe the moon phase. As long as you are not getting any strange oders and the ferment is coming along you should be fine. Good luck with it, Arne.


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## Thig (Nov 15, 2018)

Tinwakr said:


> Well, a week and a half and the apple wine is still bubbling away, I checked the SG today and is at 1.050. Is this normal for apple wine to ferment this long?


As long as it is still moving I think slower is better, I have an apple in the primary now that has gone from 1.080 to 1.055 in 2 days.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 15, 2018)

Arne said:


> Maybe. I have had ferments blow thru in 3 or 4 days. Have also had them take well over a month. Probably average a week and a half to two weeks. Believe it has to do with temperatures (warm temps make faster ferments, cooler temps slow them down), nutrients, amount of sulfites, health and kind of yeast, getting enough oxygen to the ferment, and maybe the moon phase. As long as you are not getting any strange oders and the ferment is coming along you should be fine. Good luck with it, Arne.



Makes sense, we keep our house at about 68-70


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## Cecil veley 3rd (Nov 15, 2018)

Tinwakr said:


> I started fermentation of a gallon of apple wine a week ago.View attachment 52121
> 
> 
> Now a week later the fermentation has slowed considerably, when do I rack into another container?


I leave mine alone n do it when I have time.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 16, 2018)

The last two days the SG hasn’t changed from 1.050, still have bubbling in the wine and airlock is still bubbling but slowing. Can I expect the SG to drop more yet?


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## cooknhogz (Nov 16, 2018)

I have a mead doing the same thing. I’m just letting it ride. I’ll be checking the sg this weekend and let you know if mine dropped. Saturday will be two weeks since the last time I checked.


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## G259 (Nov 16, 2018)

It's called 'Cold crashing' I believe. I'm not sure of any negative consequences, if any. Maybe less flavor?


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## G259 (Nov 16, 2018)

If you are getting a lot of bubbling, I'm going to say that it is fermenting.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 16, 2018)

Tinwakr said:


> The last two days the SG hasn’t changed from 1.050, still have bubbling in the wine and airlock is still bubbling but slowing. Can I expect the SG to drop more yet?



How are you measuring the SG? Hydrometer?


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## G259 (Nov 16, 2018)

1.050 or 1.005, that changes the answer. Easy mistake to make.


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## Tinwakr (Nov 17, 2018)

Yes, hydrometer, I am sure that I am reading it right, 1.050. I will post a pic later
Today.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 17, 2018)

Cold crashing, also called cold stabilization, is a common technique in wine making.

I'm originally from Upstate NY and got my grapes & juice from the Finger Lakes region. Finger Lakes whites tend to be high in acid. Instead of chemicals, I put my wine on the porch in the winter (temperature on the porch typically 32 to 40 F) and let it set for a week or two, keeping an eye on the weather. Excess tartaric acid precipitated as crystals, which has the side effect of acting as a fining agent. Rack the wine without letting it warm up.

Of course, it's best to do this before bottling. ;-)

Most people don't have room to refrigerate a 5 or 6 gallon carboy, but the same technique can be done using gallon jugs. It just takes longer. Be mindful of air space.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 17, 2018)

Tinwakr, I have a few suggestions. Most won't help you with this batch, but are food for thought.

1. Ferment in an open container, a food grade bucket. Cover it loosely with a towel to keep things out. Initial fermentation wants oxygen -- it's post-fermentation when oxygen should be avoided.

2. If you want a 1 gallon batch, start with more. You'll lose volume to sediment and this way you'll have top-up. When you rack from the bucket, keep the excess in smaller bottles. [I have a large collection of bottles of many sizes, drilled corks to fit them all, and a forest of airlocks.]

3. There is no need to top up until fermentation is complete. The CO2 produced will keep air off the wine. If you add more apple juice now, that juice will start fermenting. -- Actually, that may not be a bad thing.

4. When fermentation is complete, if you need top-up (from the photo it appears you will), stabilize the wine with sorbate and top up with juice. Or add a mild white wine.

The more I think about it, you can move the wine to a primary fermenter (since you have active fermentation) and add more juice. Giving it more oxygen may spur fermentation, and you'll have the top-up you need.


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## Country (Nov 20, 2018)

I just back sweetened my 5 gallon batch with apple juice concentrate (reccomend) and had the fermentation start back up again. This after kmeta and sorbate. Well, you never know when working with wine. It’s always an adventure.


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## Scooter68 (Nov 20, 2018)

How old was the sorbate? Sorbate seems to have a shorter shelf life and that might be the cause of the fermentation restart.


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## Country (Nov 20, 2018)

The sorbate was a new pack that I did not use from a wine kit. It was for a dry red wine and was only about half of what I should have put in. That was my mistake, I think. I cold crashed in the fridge and racked after three days. Will leave it in there for another week and rack again. If it still want to ferment, I’ll just let it go back to dry and try the back sweetening again when it’s done. My cider was only at 8.5 % ABV so this is really not a problem


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## Pistol Bill (Nov 21, 2018)

DKing said:


> I would like others' opinion on this:
> I am new to wine making and did a 2 gallon batch of apple wine from homemade cider (a tree in our yard). Sweetened with combo of sugar, brown sugar and honey.
> Hydro reading SG 1.120 (28 brix)
> Lalvin EC-1118 yeast.
> ...


What was your finished SG? I started a 6 gallon batch several days ago. Starting SG was 1.082. I am going to add 2lb more sugar when my SG hits 1.040 to get the PA around 14%. By the way, I started a "super charger" with my yeast before pitching. Within 8 hours of pitching, very active fermentation began. Almost cannot contain the expansion. Making a super charger to pitch is now my S.O.P. for all wines. Historically,too many slow fermenters with berry wine. I still have 4 more batches of berry wine to go.


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## StevenD55 (Nov 29, 2018)

Clearing could have been from cold stabilization. I put carboys in the garage a lot to clear wine a little better when I can.


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## Tinwakr (Dec 6, 2018)

Pistol Bill said:


> What was your finished SG? I started a 6 gallon batch several days ago. Starting SG was 1.082. I am going to add 2lb more sugar when my SG hits 1.040 to get the PA around 14%. By the way, I started a "super charger" with my yeast before pitching. Within 8 hours of pitching, very active fermentation began. Almost cannot contain the expansion. Making a super charger to pitch is now my S.O.P. for all wines. Historically,too many slow fermenters with berry wine. I still have 4 more batches of berry wine to go.



My starting SG was 1.080 and I stopped the fermentation early (SG 1.020) to give me an ABV of 7.88%.

I wanted the sweetness without having to back-sweeten. I wanted a drink that didn’t have an overpowering alcohol taste that would take away from the flavours I expected. I certainly do taste the apple and cinnamon!
I bottled tonight and got 9 375ml bottles.

This one is a “cozy up by the fire” drink me tinks.

This tastes great! Next time a 6 gallon batch!

I almost forgot, next time I will let the SG go to 1.010-1.005, a little sweet at 1.020 for me but it is still a nice drink.


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## Scooter68 (Dec 6, 2018)

Might want to note that shelf life of a wine at that low an ABV may be closer to beer than wine. Months rather than years.


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## Tinwakr (Dec 6, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> Might want to note that shelf life of a wine at that low an ABV may be closer to beer than wine. Months rather than years.



I only have 9 bottles and I plan on having them gone over the holidays.

What should I shoot for as far as ABV in my next batch so that I can increase shelf life. I thought adding Campden tabs would increase shelf life?


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## Scooter68 (Dec 6, 2018)

Basic wine making:
1) 10% or higher ABV,
2) K-meta 
3) K-Sorbate (Only if you have residual sugar or back-sweeten)
4) pH at bottling of no higher than 3.5-3.6 (Lower, being more acidic is OK)

2 & 3 are best added a few days before back-sweetening, Then Back-Sweeten, Then wait about 1 week before bottling.

Keep an eye on those remaining bottles until consumed. If you did not add K-Meta (Campden Tablet) and K-Sorbate to it. Fermentation could restart and either pop the corks or bust the bottles. (Bottle bomb is the term) As long as you are consuming before the New Year you shouldn't have too much problem. _(Note: Next bottle you open notice if there is a vacuum release sound or a pop of pressure being released. The latter being a warning that the yeast may have started fermenting again.)_
That last bit is not to scare you just to give you a heads up. As a child my dad did a batch of home-made root-beer that we never got to enjoy. One or more of the bottles exploded a few days after he bottled it and took out all the other bottles. It was our first and last attempt at that


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## sour_grapes (Dec 6, 2018)

Re-emphasizing what @Scooter68 said. What exactly did you mean when you said you "stopped the fermentation early (SG 1.020) to give me an ABV of 7.88%." Did you add chemicals, did you filter with a sterile filter?


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## ASR (Dec 7, 2018)

Tinwakr said:


> My starting SG was 1.080 and I stopped the fermentation early (SG 1.020) to give me an ABV of 7.88%.
> 
> I wanted the sweetness without having to back-sweeten. I wanted a drink that didn’t have an overpowering alcohol taste that would take away from the flavours I expected. I certainly do taste the apple and cinnamon!
> I bottled tonight and got 9 375ml bottles.
> ...


At 7.8% ABV it is more like a hard cider than a wine. Did you add a stabilzer to help prevent fermentation restarting? At that low it might have been better to put them into beer bottles (16 ounce) as they are a bit stronger than a wine bottled should fermentation restart.


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## Tinwakr (Dec 7, 2018)

I added meta and sorbate.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 7, 2018)

It is difficult to stop an active fermentation by adding those chemicals. As Scooter says, beware the bottle bombs!


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## StevenD55 (Dec 7, 2018)

Tinwakr said:


> I added meta and sorbate.



Here is some good info on stopping fermentation. 

https://eckraus.com/wine-making-stop-fermentation/


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## Tinwakr (Dec 7, 2018)

StevenD55 said:


> Here is some good info on stopping fermentation.
> 
> https://eckraus.com/wine-making-stop-fermentation/



Thank you.


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## Pistol Bill (Dec 14, 2018)

Tinwakr said:


> My starting SG was 1.080 and I stopped the fermentation early (SG 1.020) to give me an ABV of 7.88%.
> 
> I wanted the sweetness without having to back-sweeten. I wanted a drink that didn’t have an overpowering alcohol taste that would take away from the flavours I expected. I certainly do taste the apple and cinnamon!
> I bottled tonight and got 9 375ml bottles.
> ...


Both Huckleberry and apple could be fished this weekend. Looks like my yeast held up great to 15% alcohol. Yes, high alcohol. However, I raised the concentration of juice vs. water. So it is my hopes I'll get an acceptable fruit flavor from both. As mentioned previously; I made a supercharger from K1-V116 yeast that kicked butt. About ready to start in on my berry blend wine. By the way, there is nothing wrong with back sweetening. Let your wine ferment out to 0, if you can. Then sweeten to taste. The flavors will be there. Anybody else to comment?


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## Pistol Bill (Dec 14, 2018)

Pistol Bill said:


> Both Huckleberry and apple could be fished this weekend. Looks like my yeast held up great to 15% alcohol. Yes, high alcohol. However, I raised the concentration of juice vs. water. So it is my hopes I'll get an acceptable fruit flavor from both. As mentioned previously; I made a supercharger from K1-V116 yeast that kicked butt. About ready to start in on my berry blend wine. By the way, there is nothing wrong with back sweetening. Let your wine ferment out to 0, if you can. Then sweeten to taste. The flavors will be there. Anybody else to comment?


Quick update:
just took another SG. Huckleberry is at 1.014 (started at 1.112) Apple is at 1.002 the sg started at 1.082, I waited until 1.054 then pitched another 2lbs of sugar. Apple should be done in 2 more days (30 sec intervals on airlock). Started Apple 2 weeks after Huckleberry and it looks like it will finish a week earlier. Same yeast. I think the huckleberry is slower due to the 22lbs of berries vs 18lbs last year - too concentrated to allow the yeast to get air and multiply like it should. I am patient and will wait. The huckleberry airlock has been and is still at 13sec intervals


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## Scooter68 (Dec 14, 2018)

Pistol Bill said:


> Quick update:
> just took another SG. Huckleberry is at 1.014 (started at 1.112) Apple is at 1.002 the sg started at 1.082, I waited until 1.054 then pitched another 2lbs of sugar. Apple should be done in 2 more days (30 sec intervals on airlock). Started Apple 2 weeks after Huckleberry and it looks like it will finish a week earlier. Same yeast. I think the huckleberry is slower due to the 22lbs of berries vs 18lbs last year - too concentrated to allow the yeast to get air and multiply like it should. I am patient and will wait. The huckleberry airlock has been and is still at 13sec intervals




Might want to start your own thread on those batches instead of hi-jacking someone else's thread.


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## Pistol Bill (Dec 15, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> Might want to start your own thread on those batches instead of hi-jacking someone else's thread.


Will do


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## Tinwakr (Jan 26, 2019)

Latest batch of apple wine. Letting it sit as I have no time to bottle.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 27, 2019)

The color looks beautiful! Bet that will look even better in the glass.


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## Pistol Bill (Jan 27, 2019)

Looking great. I just bottled 5 gallons of Apple yesterday. turned and tastes great. Kind of like Chardonnay, little bit of oak and cinnamon. Started out very dry at15.25% abv. Added 2 tubes of apple concentrate at the end. Cleared for a few weeks and success. Firm believer using K1 v1116 yeast. Could not resist, downed 4 bottles yesterday with friends.


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## Country (Jan 27, 2019)

I finished mine much the way you did with the apple concentrate. Bottled half but kegged and force carbonated the rest. The wine is aging as we drink the cider! Yum


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## Tinwakr (Feb 18, 2019)

Just bottled my 3 gallon batch today, come on summer!


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## Pistol Bill (Feb 18, 2019)

Tinwakr said:


> Just bottled my 3 gallon batch today, come on summer!
> 
> View attachment 53409


Very nice. That apple looks great. I have been trying to stay out of my apple until next season. Next year I am planning to make 10 gallons. Maybe that will be enough to satisfy us and let it finish aging...LOL


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