# Starting 3 gallon of elderberry port



## pwrose (Jul 28, 2010)

Started with 9 lbs of elderberries and ended up with about 3 qts of juice so I did another 4 lbs and that gave me a full gallon of elderberry juice. 
Added the juice along with 2 gallons of water then measured the SG and acid.
SG was 1.010
acid was .2%
So heres what was added
1 1/2 tsp yeast energizer
3 tsp yeast nutrient
1 1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
6 tsp acid blend (checked acid and it was at .5%)

This is now sitting until I get home then I will check the SG again and the acid then add the sugar and yeast. The acid I will readjust when it goes into the secondary.

I used the wine calculator and plugged in the numbers to determine how much sugar I would need to get to 18%. Total sugar to be added should be 10 lbs. Since I am planning on step feeding this I will start with 5 lbs and wait til it ferments down to about 1.02 to 1.03 then add 2.5 lbs of sugar and let it go again until it gets down to 1.02 to 1.03 and add the last 2.5 lbs of sugar.

I am not 100% on which yeast I will use but I have an assortment, It will either be EC-1118 or Pasture Red, at least thats what I am thinking. However here is the list of yeast that I have on hand and what they can supposedly handle for alcohol tolorances.

Lalvin EC-1118 (18%)
Lalvin RC212 (14%)
Red Star Pasteur Red (16%)
Red Star Côte des Blancs (12-14%)
Red Star Premier Curvee (18%)

Drop some input


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## Goodfella (Jul 28, 2010)

I would use Red Star Pasteur Red. Then I would fortify a little bit...


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## pwrose (Jul 28, 2010)

I don't want to decide on fortifing just yet. I would like to see how it turns out without the outside alcohol.

Pasteur Red noted.


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## pwrose (Jul 28, 2010)

Took 5 lbs of sugar and 4 cups of the must and melted the sugar in it.
While the sugar was melting I put the Red Star Pasteur Red yeast in some warm water to rehydrate it.
After the sugar was melted and the yeast was rehydrated it was all added back to the must. Took a SG reading and got a 1.082 which was a little low for what I was shooting for but since I will be adding more later then it really doesn't matter.

Within 4 hours I had bubbles starting to form on the top. I gave it a quick stir and off to bed I go. I will stir again in the morning and start checking the SG Friday.


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## pwrose (Jul 31, 2010)

Tested the SG today, a day later than I was planning (Rascal Flatts concert that I don't remember much of). So I had a reading of 1.010, then I melted 2.5 lbs of sugar in a simple syrup and added it to the now fermenting wine. Took another SG reading and it was now at 1.040. I will give that a day or two to get going and test it again. Right now this is where everything stands
Starting SG 1.084
First addition of extra sugar brought the SG from 1.010 to 1.040
Total fermention of the first step was .074 for a total abv of 9.7%
with the addition of the 2.5 lbs of sugar should bring the total abv up to
(.074 + .046 = .120 x 131.4 = 15-16%)
The .046 would be if it ferments dry from 1.040 down to .994.

Ok so that was all the out loud thinking.


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## Wade E (Jul 31, 2010)

Personally I think that is a little low of fruit for a port wine. You usually almot dble the amount of fruit used when making a port to hide the higher abv. Everything else sounds good though.


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## pwrose (Jul 31, 2010)

I have another 6 lbs or so that I was going to condense down and use for a f-pak. Then I thought about the fact that elderberries leave that gummy green stuff I think from the stems that don't get cleaned out. So I am not sure what to do now I might use some blueberries or maybe get some blackberries to make a f-pak with.

Suggestions are welcome, elderberry, blueberry, or blackberry.

Is there anyway to get rid of the gummy green gunk in the elderberry juice?


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## Wade E (Jul 31, 2010)

I found in health food store a pure elderberry extract which worked out really nice on my last batch.


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## pwrose (Aug 1, 2010)

How much extract do you think I might need for a 3 gallon batch?

Checked the SG today and it was down to 1.030 already. Will check again tomorrow and add the last 2.5 lbs of sugar if it is down to at least 1.020.


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## Wade E (Aug 1, 2010)

IMO that is always determined by tasting it first but 1 bottle of thsi stuff would do fine, it was about a 4 oz. bottle.


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## Madriver Wines (Aug 2, 2010)

Any special instructions for getting rid of the toxins I am reading about? A friend has a load of bushes almost ready to pick.


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## pwrose (Aug 3, 2010)

The ripe berries just need to be cooked and all the toxins should evaporate. Make sure you get out as many stems and green berries as possible. I think I had a few stems left over because of the green glue like substance that is left around the top of the wine in the primary.


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## myakkagldwngr (Aug 3, 2010)

Was it just me or was that green gummy residue harder to clean off than any type of gorrilla glue man could possibly make?
I've been picking a few berries on and off, then putting them in the freezer until I'm ready.


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## Woodbee (Aug 3, 2010)

Yep the green gooies are tough. As many here have found out. The solution is oil. Rub down the mess with a vegetable oil till it releases and then wash it off with good hot water


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## BobF (Aug 3, 2010)

pwrose said:


> Suggestions are welcome, elderberry, blueberry, or blackberry.


 
My turn to think out loud ...

How long are you planning to age this? 

More elderberries will add more tannin ... so will blackberries. Maybe think of something with less tannin to complement the elder.

Unless you're planning to age for A Long Time ... which is traditional with port ...

Red raspberry sure would be good with elder ...


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## pwrose (Aug 3, 2010)

The plan would be to age for at least 6+ months after bottling. That would be at least 4-6 months after it is in the secondary. So probably close to 1 year or ther abouts.

Update: Straight out of my log
Total SG readings so far
Start - 1.082
Before first sugar addition - 1.010
After first sugar addition - 1.040
Before second sugar addition - 1.016
After second sugar addition - 1.042
1.082 - 1.010 = .072
1.040 - 1.016 = .024
.072 + .024 = .096
.096 x 131.4 = 12.6 abv

Now it is waiting time to see if it will go dry or if it will stop early. I will move it to a carboy once it reaches 1.010 or less if I don't catch the 1.010.

I don't think I am going to add any other fruits to it, but I will however try to find some of the extract to add an f-pak to it.

How sweet is a port on the SG scale, I will google it but just in case I figured I would ask.


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## pwrose (Aug 9, 2010)

I didn't realize when I started this that I had added as much water as I did. I transfered this batch from the primary to the seconday and added an airlock. But i ended up with about an extra half gallon, so I put that in a 1 gallon jug and put it under an air lock. I figure I will use that to top off the main carboy after racking.

Checked the SG today to see where I was at and it was already down to 1.020 another drop of .022, for a total drop of .118 giving me an ABV so far of 15-16%. It is still going just nowhere near as fast as it was in the primary.

Hopefully the Pasteur Red yeast will make it all the way to dry with this. It only has .020 left to go.


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## pwrose (Aug 13, 2010)

Checked the SG again and it had dropped on down to 1.010. So far I have a total drop of .128 which should be somewhere around 16.8% ABV if I figured that right. It is already in a secondary with an airlock on it but the airlock is barely popping however there are plenty of little bubbles comming to the surface. I'll give it another 3-4 days and check the SG again, once it reaches the 1.000 mark or lower I will rack it and sorbate it.

I have around 5 lbs of elderberries that I am going to make into the f-pak. where should the SG reading be for a not overly sweet port?


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## BobF (Aug 13, 2010)

pwrose said:


> Checked the SG again and it had dropped on down to 1.010. So far I have a total drop of .128 which should be somewhere around 16.8% ABV if I figured that right. It is already in a secondary with an airlock on it but the airlock is barely popping however there are plenty of little bubbles comming to the surface. I'll give it another 3-4 days and check the SG again, once it reaches the 1.000 mark or lower I will rack it and sorbate it.
> 
> I have around 5 lbs of elderberries that I am going to make into the f-pak. where should the SG reading be for a not overly sweet port?


 
Your best bet is to go by taste. Stop when you think it's almost as sweet as you'd like.

Make sure you check adjust acid before you do any sweetening. Acid level has a big impact on sweetness perception.


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## pwrose (Aug 13, 2010)

Should the acid levels of a port be the same as that of a regular wine? 6-7%


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## BobF (Aug 13, 2010)

pwrose said:


> Should the acid levels of a port be the same as that of a regular wine? 6-7%


 
I hope you mean .6-.7% 

I've never made a port or measured the acid in a port, but the concept of balance tells me that with higher alcohol and higher residual sugar, higher acid would be the norm.

Go a little at a time and taste along the way. Taste should be the final judge.

My comment about acid is a general comment based on my own experience. I have mistakenly back sweetened before checking/adjusting acid. When I adjusted acid up after the fact, the sweetness became too much.

So, if you're an acid adjuster, adjust acid before you back sweeten.


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## pwrose (Aug 13, 2010)

I measured the acid level at .65% (yeah I meant ... in there) the pH was 3.6
Since it is still bubbling and cloudy I only took a little for taste testing and it is very stong right now. It will need the f-pak thats for sure and I will add sugar to back sweeten once it has cleared pretty good but at least 1 racking before bottling.


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## upper (Aug 13, 2010)

I would back sweeten later. An f- pak with eldo's may take it over the top.Your test should be at least 8 months out.Good luck waiting,but once you do you will..............Dig -it ..Upper


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## pwrose (Aug 13, 2010)

I am pretty sure I will be needing the f-pak. I only used 13 lbs of berries for what ended up being 3.5 gallons. It was only supposed to be 3 but somewhere it got an extra half gallon of liquid. LOL
But I will wait for it to finish and clear then test before adding anything else to it.


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## pwrose (Aug 22, 2010)

I have been out of town for the last 3 days and haven't been around to update any of the wines I have going. Well I am back and here is the update for the elderberry.
(Like my copy and paste for the beginning explaination)
I checked the SG and it was down to 1.000 which gives me a total ABV of 18% which is where I was headed with this one. I racked it into a 5 gallon carboy even though it is really only about 3.5 gallons and both of my 3 gallon carboys have other wines in them now. I added sorbate and put an airlock on it. I also gave it a good shake to get the CO2 released to displace the air (this would be my version of degassing and using it to my advantage LOL). I will let it clear for a little while and at the next racking put it back into a 3 gallon carboy and use the left over for topping up, also will backsweeten it at that time.


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## Wade E (Aug 22, 2010)

Just dont leave it in there for very long cause I highly dought that is enough C02 from degassing to replace the 02 volume in that carboy.


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## pwrose (Aug 22, 2010)

It will probably only be in there until Labor Day, like 2 weeks or so.
I checked it just a little while ago and the airlock popped once while I was doing other stuff in the room. The only reason I know it was that one is beacuse I was standing right beside it when it happened.
You think it would be ok til then, the only other thing I could do is put it in 1 gallon jugs and put lids on them, until I get the other 3 gallon back.


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## Wade E (Aug 22, 2010)

So I take it that its still fermenting a little then? If thats the case then dont take the airlock off and youll be fine.


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## pwrose (Aug 22, 2010)

No I dont think that it is, and if it is I have already added the sorbate. I just think that it was I might have bumped the shelf that it was sitting on and it caused the CO2 to get released and popping it one time. It only did it once, oh and the SG was 1.000 after fermenting out .138 total SG.
Do you still think it will be alright for a couple weeks?


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## Wade E (Aug 22, 2010)

If there is enogh gas in thefre to pop the airlock you should be alright, That must have been one gassy wine!


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## pwrose (Aug 23, 2010)

I would not say it was overly gassy, I didn't degass it before I put it under the airlock once it was racked into the 5 gallon carboy. I knew there would be a good bit of head space left so I tried to not let it splash too much while racking. Once it was in the 5 gallon and under the airlock I shook it a few good times to degass it, and allowing the CO2 to stay in the carboy under the airlock. It took maybe 3 or 4 times and the the airlock would pop once or twice and stop, when I did it the last time it popped the one time and then didn't do it again until I hit the shelf it was on.


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