# Volume estimates from grapes to wine



## franc1969 (Aug 15, 2020)

I've been reading through posts trying to get a handle on this, and not sure I really have one yet. What's your estimate for wine volume yield from a given quantity of grapes? And what volume fermenter should you expect for that? 
I've figured out that I'd need three 36lb lugs of grapes to fill a 6 gallon carboy with some extra for top-up. I'm not sure how much volume that crushes to though, and allowing for expansion during ferment. I have managed to accumulate many carboys in a short time, but am looking for plastic cans or barrels this week.
And while we're at it, what do you expect for additional lugs, or something on the order of 1/4 ton? Is there a yield difference generally in pressing before or after fermenting?


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## Johnd (Aug 15, 2020)

franc1969 said:


> I've been reading through posts trying to get a handle on this, and not sure I really have one yet. What's your estimate for wine volume yield from a given quantity of grapes? And what volume fermenter should you expect for that?
> I've figured out that I'd need three 36lb lugs of grapes to fill a 6 gallon carboy with some extra for top-up. I'm not sure how much volume that crushes to though, and allowing for expansion during ferment. I have managed to accumulate many carboys in a short time, but am looking for plastic cans or barrels this week.
> And while we're at it, what do you expect for additional lugs, or something on the order of 1/4 ton? Is there a yield difference generally in pressing before or after fermenting?



The general rule I use is similar to yours. Three lugs (36# each) = 10 gallons of must = 6 gallons finished wine, with a little for topping up. For 10 gallons of must, you’d be safe with a 12 gallon fermenter or larger, that’s 20% larger to allow for the cap to rise and be punched down without overflows. Using those parameters, expand to your needs, it’ll keep you safe.


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## BI81 (Aug 15, 2020)

As a rough approximation I divide the total pounds of grapes by 10 to get the must volume add 20-25% for cap space. With red Bordeaux varieties I typically average around 15-15.5 pounds of grapes per gallon of finished wine.


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## Padrino (Aug 16, 2020)

BI81 said:


> As a rough approximation I divide the total pounds of grapes by 10 to get the must volume add 20-25% for cap space. With red Bordeaux varieties I typically average around 15-15.5 pounds of grapes per gallon of finished wine.


For every 125-150 lbs of grapes, I get a 5-6 gal carboy of juice.


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## JoP (Aug 16, 2020)

franc1969 said:


> I've been reading through posts trying to get a handle on this, and not sure I really have one yet. What's your estimate for wine volume yield from a given quantity of grapes? And what volume fermenter should you expect for that?
> I've figured out that I'd need three 36lb lugs of grapes to fill a 6 gallon carboy with some extra for top-up. I'm not sure how much volume that crushes to though, and allowing for expansion during ferment. I have managed to accumulate many carboys in a short time, but am looking for plastic cans or barrels this week.
> And while we're at it, what do you expect for additional lugs, or something on the order of 1/4 ton? Is there a yield difference generally in pressing before or after fermenting?


In the red wine making manual from More Wine, it says that for 100 Lb. of grapes, you get on average 8 gallons of must and 5 gallons of wine.


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## Johnd (Aug 16, 2020)

JoP said:


> In the red wine making manual from More Wine, it says that for 100 Lb. of grapes, you get on average 8 gallons of must and 5 gallons of wine.


Personally, I think that’s a bit on the low side, I’ve always had a better yield than that. Keep in mind also, no vintage or grape is the same from year to year. Some are small and pulpy, others large and juicy. The small pulpy grapes will have a lower yield than the larger juicy ones. These guidelines are just approximations.


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## franc1969 (Aug 16, 2020)

Johnd said:


> The general rule I use is similar to yours. Three lugs (36# each) = 10 gallons of must = 6 gallons finished wine, with a little for topping up. For 10 gallons of must, you’d be safe with a 12 gallon fermenter or larger, that’s 20% larger to allow for the cap to rise and be punched down without overflows. Using those parameters, expand to your needs, it’ll keep you safe.


Thanks, I think I got this approximation from you in searching prior posts, and fits with what I gathered from Bream buckets of frozen must. I know I noted your strawberry yield, for when I try that.
I think I'll try to find a few 15 or 20 gallon barrels as fermenters. I have been contemplating getting 10 gallon restaurant ice bins (trash can type) but they do seem like I'd risk overflow unless it's a small batch.
I did have the MoreWine amounts, but they do seem low from what has been said. Hopefully, having this as one thread will help someone else.


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## Johnd (Aug 16, 2020)

franc1969 said:


> Thanks, I think I got this approximation from you in searching prior posts, and fits with what I gathered from Bream buckets of frozen must. I know I noted your strawberry yield, for when I try that.
> I think I'll try to find a few 15 or 20 gallon barrels as fermenters. I have been contemplating getting 10 gallon restaurant ice bins (trash can type) but they do seem like I'd risk overflow unless it's a small batch.
> I did have the MoreWine amounts, but they do seem low from what has been said. Hopefully, having this as one thread will help someone else.


Give the Brute (or similar) trash cans a look. They’re food safe, come in various sizes and colors, and the lids are good for keeping covered up during fermentation. I ordered mine from the U-line site, as my company has an account there. I also have the fermenters on the rolling casters, it’s come in quite handy over the years. Rubbermaid® Trash Cans, Rubbermaid® Garbage Cans in Stock - ULINE


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## franc1969 (Aug 17, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Brute (or similar) trash cans ... rolling casters


Webstaurant store has those trash or ingredient bins, and the white ones labeled 'ICE ONLY', which is what my local restaurant supply always has in stock. Lavex brand is over half the cost of Brute, though, and Huskee is also less. That's what I have in mind if I can't get plastic barrels before crush. I definitely use the dollies, I have several, the only way to go. 3 or 4 carboys fit on one of the type I have, makes moving them full very easy.


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## Ajmassa (Aug 17, 2020)

I idiot proofed this for myself to commit it to memory. With no math! (Sorta)

I just take the grape lbs and slash off the last digit.——And that’s it. That’s my must. So:
36lbs grapes= 3gal must
108lbs= 10gal
288lbs= 28gal

then I just ballpark 70% finished wine. *Always rounding in favor of not shorting myself . **And always adding a lug if not enough cushion.
3gal must= 2gal wine
10 must= 7wine
28 must= 19wine 

I dunno. I’d get confused a lot until I started going by “lbs=gals” which requires almost no thought at all. It’s just another way to get a good baseline estimate and it works for me.
8lugs/288lbs always gets me a 14gal demijohn and a 5/6gal carboy.
Hope this was helpful.


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## Rocky (Aug 17, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Personally, I think that’s a bit on the low side, I’ve always had a better yield than that. Keep in mind also, no vintage or grape is the same from year to year. Some are small and pulpy, others large and juicy. The small pulpy grapes will have a lower yield than the larger juicy ones. These guidelines are just approximations


I tend to agree with John. There are no hard and fast rules and a lot depends on the vintage which involves the amount of rain, sun, how large the grapes grew that year and perhaps others parameters. When we made wine from grapes, and this goes back a long way (to 42 pound lugs), we would normally net out about 3 gallons of finished wine from a 42# lug. It would vary slightly from year to year. The last time I made wine from grapes was in New York and lugs were down to 36 pounds (however, they did raise the price to make up for it!) and I got about 2.5 gallons per lug. I always use 14 pounds per gallon as a rough estimate.


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## Ajmassa (Aug 17, 2020)

Rocky said:


> When we made wine from grapes, and this goes back a long way (to 42 pound lugs),



Ya still can get 42lb lugs. Just a theory but I think some suppliers package certain varietals in 42’s due to popularity. 2 years ago my muscat and Alicante were 42lbs. Both those varietals are part of an old home winemaking blend around here. Along with Thompson’s seedless which, IIRC that was the only other grape in 42s. Could just a crazy coincidence tho.


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## NorCal (Aug 17, 2020)

I use 15.5 pounds per gallon finished for reds and 20 pounds per gallon finished for white. Looks like everyone is pretty close to that, but it mostly depends on the grapes as well.


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## ZebraB (Aug 19, 2020)

This is great information! Since I am new, I have a question ...Is there are some rough guidelines on the initial post fermentation after pressing for reds? 

I have a 6.5, 6 and 5 gallon carboys but nothing smaller. Will I need something smaller or larger to capture all the new wine? Note: I plan on doing MLF after fermentation so perhaps I need something larger?


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## sour_grapes (Aug 19, 2020)

ZebraB said:


> This is great information! Since I am new, I have a question ...Is there are some rough guidelines on the initial post fermentation after pressing for reds?
> 
> I have a 6.5, 6 and 5 gallon carboys but nothing smaller. Will I need something smaller or larger to capture all the new wine? Note: I plan on doing MLF after fermentation so perhaps I need something larger?



I cannot tell what you are asking exactly. Could you clarify your question? Rough guidelines on what?


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## ZebraB (Aug 19, 2020)

I want to know how much volume of wine should I expect immediately after pressing red wine for 100lbs of grapes. I want to make sure I have the right size carboy(s) so I don't have a large headspace issue that will need to be addressed


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## sour_grapes (Aug 19, 2020)

ZebraB said:


> I want to know how much volume of wine should I expect immediately after pressing red wine for 100lbs of grapes. I want to make sure I have the right size carboy(s) so I don't have a large headspace issue that will need to be addressed



I think I get it now. All of the answers given above are for finished wine, and you are asking how much larger the press wine should be? I.e., before removing the gross lees?


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## ZebraB (Aug 19, 2020)

Yes. exactly


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## Johnd (Aug 19, 2020)

ZebraB said:


> This is great information! Since I am new, I have a question ...Is there are some rough guidelines on the initial post fermentation after pressing for reds?
> 
> I have a 6.5, 6 and 5 gallon carboys but nothing smaller. Will I need something smaller or larger to capture all the new wine? Note: I plan on doing MLF after fermentation so perhaps I need something larger?



After you press, and before you rack off of the gross lees, that'll be your largest volume, sometimes as much as 8 gallons for 3 lugs (108 pounds). Regardless of the total number of 6 gallon carboys you fill with wine, you'll always be left over with a piece of a carboy. If you have a 6.5, a 6, and a 5, you could be stuck with some smaller volumes you can't handle, 4.5 gallons would be the worst case scenario. The 4.5 gallon scenario would go into a 3 gallon, a 1 gallon, and a half gallon. If you could pick up a 3 gallon, two 1 gallons and two half gallons, and you have a few empty bottles laying around, it'll cut down on your waste, nearly to zero. 

As you rack off of the gross lees, you'll lose some volume, but the array of carboys suggested above will keep you from having lots of wasted wine. Keep in mind, that if you are doing different varietals and intend to keep them separated, you'll need more spare vessels. If you intend to separate free run wine and press run wine by varietal, it increases the need for the smaller vessels even more.


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## ZebraB (Aug 19, 2020)

Thanks. The people on this forum is very helpful. Much appreciated!


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## winemaker81 (Aug 20, 2020)

Another factor is now good (efficient in squeezing juice from the pomace) is the press and how hard is the pressing? Both factors affect the amount of wine produced.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 20, 2020)

I was talking to a winemaker about how many bars he pressed his grapes with in a bladder press and then asked how a basket press would produce. He didn't know exactly but said you would never get to 3 bars which what he presses at. My concern was releasing too many seed tannins. Since then I'm not afraid to press as hard as I can. Another thing I noticed is if you let the press rest for a while it seems to loosen up so you can press again. The other thing to extract more juice is to remove the cake put it back and press again. I've been really happy with my yields after doing this and the skins are very dry when finished.


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## cmason1957 (Aug 20, 2020)

I am with you @mainshipfred, I don't think it it's possible to press hard enough to release seed tannin with a hand press. I generally just press ads hard as I can, then let it sit with that pressure for about 10-15 minutes, then give it a few more turns for good luck. I don't take the cake out and repress, I generally get about 7.5 gallons from 100 pounds of grapes.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 20, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> I am with you @mainshipfred, I don't think it it's possible to press hard enough to release seed tannin with a hand press. I generally just press ads hard as I can, then let it sit with that pressure for about 10-15 minutes, then give it a few more turns for good luck. I don't take the cake out and repress, I generally get about 7.5 gallons from 100 pounds of grapes.



You should try it sometime, pretty incredible.


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## cmason1957 (Aug 20, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> You should try it sometime, pretty incredible.



I am lucky to get the good for nothing Cellar Rat I have to even let it wait as long as I do. She gets bored with thr process and leaves. She would probably turn the lights off on me.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 21, 2020)

I want to try the method @mainshipfred mentioned, but I line the press with cheesecloth to trap the seeds and chunks. Re-doing the cake would be messy.

However, I have an idea: I have a large nylon bag that will fit over an 8 gallon primary, so I'm considering skipping the cheesecloth and place the bag over the primary I catch the juice in. Instead of taking the cake out, I'll buy a new fork specifically for the wine making, sterilize it before use, and break the cake up within the press, then press again.

Anything obviously wrong with this proposal?

I have a couple of forks, a 3 and a 5 tine, but they're old and rusty. I can't see cleaning them up well enough that I'd stick 'em in my wine!


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