# Oak Spirals vs.Oak Chips, Powders, Etc.



## Billberry

Is there any noticable difference between using oak chips vs. spirals for oaking a wine? I was looking at the prices of spirals at my LBHS and I had to do a double take. $80 and up for 3 spirals!:< Really? For 3 chunks of toasted wood!

I noticed the bags of chips were a lot more reasonably priced.
I would like somebody to school me on the differences between the chips, spirals and powders and their ideal uses if they could.
Sorry if this isn't the right forum for this. I was thinking about trying some oaking on the Tropical DB recipe soon.
Thanks, 
Bill


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## CBell

Spirals are really easy to remove from a carboy, so you can taste your wine as you are oaking and when it gets to the right point, just pull the spiral out. Also, d/t the surface area, the oak is imparted more slowly, so also easier to avoid issues such as over-oaking. 

Chips you have to be careful not to over-oak, and then racking off of them and washing them out of a carboy can be a pain. They're cheap, though, so they're my oak of choice at the moment.


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## Billberry

So can you re-use the spirals for multiple batches or only once?


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## geek

FYI - I bought spirals at midwestsupplies for like $8/pack, the pack has 2 spirals 8 in long and 1in in diameter.


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## Billberry

If they are that much cheaper elsewhere maybe I'll order them online instead of buying them at the LHBS.


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## WI_Wino

Billberry said:


> If they are that much cheaper elsewhere maybe I'll order them online instead of buying them at the LHBS.



For sure. $80 for 3 spirals is out of this world insane.


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## Pumpkinman

bill, if these guys are charging $80, you need to find another source for your winemaking supplies, that is outrageous, as varis stated, Midwest supplies and other online retailers sell them for $8-12 per pack of two.
Oak chips impart all of their oak into the wine real fast, if you are not very careful, you could be drinking liquid lumber, spirals go much slower, much more controlled.


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## mjrisenhoover

I use the chips with one of these 

Oak Infusion Tubes

They displace quite a bit of wine in the carboy though but it keeps all the chips in one place. I only keep the chips in for about two weeks then taste, longer if needed.


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## tonyt

The spirals must be mispriced. Surely they meant $8.00.


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## JohnT

Rather than chips, I have to recomend cubes or beans... There are a lot of reasons... 

With oak, the bigger the piece, the better. The best flavor compounds you would want to extract are located just below the char level of the wood. For some chips, they are too thin to have this layer. Generally, the bigger the piece, the more of these compounds you get. 

Additionally, oak cubes or beans are a snap to clean up and rinse out of your carboy. Chips can stubbornly stick the the inside walls of a carboy. Cubes/beans do this to a much lesser degree.


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## ibglowin

As the size of the piece of wood increases so does the quality of the oak imparted. There is a reason that chips are so cheap. Buy the biggest piece of of oak you can afford. You will make a much better wine in the long run.


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## Billberry

Pumpkinman said:


> bill, if these guys are charging $80, you need to find another source for your winemaking supplies, that is outrageous, as varis stated, Midwest supplies and other online retailers sell them for $8-12 per pack of two.
> Oak chips impart all of their oak into the wine real fast, if you are not very careful, you could be drinking liquid lumber, spirals go much slower, much more controlled.



Gee Tom maybe they were mismarked or there was something about what they were offering that I didn't understand or maybe I looked at the price wrong.
I'll check it out again when I go back there next time and ask questions if I can confirm the price is what I thought I saw.
Their prices on everything else there is a tad high but not out of line from other prices I have seen on line.
I want to thank everyone who has been explaining the oaking scene to me.I like the woody characteristics of single malt scotches so I might like experimenting with my home made wines just to see if I like it.
Bill


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## Wiz

I agree with JohnT, Year before last year I did a test using all oak cubes in medium toast French, Hungarian and American oaks. All were left in the carboy for 2 months with the American being over-powering, the Hungarian just OK and the French outstanding. Last year I did all chips. I kept adding more medium toast French chips and just was not happy with the final results. This year I plan on using all medium French cubes and I am anticipating that I will be very happy.


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## Boatboy24

Billberry said:


> Is there any noticable difference between using oak chips vs. spirals for oaking a wine? I was looking at the prices of spirals at my LBHS and I had to do a double take. $80 and up for 3 spirals!:< Really? For 3 chunks of toasted wood!



If that is the right price, for the cost of two sets of three spirals, plus shipping, you could get yourself a 23 liter Vadai barrel.


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## Billberry

I like the way you think Boatboy.


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## cimbaliw

A couple of weeks ago I went to the LHBS and took a spiral up to the counter. Fortunately the owner was there and after an explanation of what i was upto, we gave a test run. The spiral didn't fit in a standard carboy neck. Well, I had some medium toast chips at home and some paint strainer bags and needed to rack off my chard. 3 gal untouched and 3 cal with 4oz (by volume, a dixie cup full of loose chips). I put the chips into a sanitized 1 gal paint strainer bag and shoved it in the carboy. Minutes ago I dug out the chips and pulled the bag out, with some effort I tell you. A quick low volume taste indicates a positive result.

I used them because I had them. I will continue to do so until they are gone. After that it's on to cubes for all the reasons stated above. Next time with chips however I will start with a known quantity of chips, put a few in the paint strainer bag, tie a knot, then a few more chips, another knot and so on as to make a sleeve that will slide out much easier. Maybe even a monofilament line up through the airlock.

Anyone tried the Jack Daniels whiskey barell chips for smoking meats? I'm intrigued but can't think which varietal I'd try them on.

BC


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## Pumpkinman

Bill, sorry, I didn't mean to come across so strong and disrespect your local home brew shop. I get very cranky when I hear about places that may be ripping people off, maybe inflating prices...this is the reason that I started my current business, I was tired of seeing people ripped of and I knew that I could sell the same products for far less while still making a profit.
I've always believed in repeat sales, don't try to get every last dollar from every customer on the first shot, be reasonable and fair and they will come back, and in the process, they may tell others about you.
My apologies if I offended you in any way.


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## Billberry

Didn't offend me in the least Tom. I'm glad there are people like you on this forum watching my back since I'm still a noob. Chances are I may not have looked at the price right or something else I may have missed.
Now that I know that kind of price would mean that I didn't even get kissed afterwards:<, I will definitely pay closer attention when I get back that way and verify what I think I saw.
I mean a business would have to be insane to offer a product for ten times the going rate elsewhere unless they think people who frequent their business all live under rocks.

Aaaaaaand I just discovered a wine supply shop across the river in a sleepy little town in Ohio that carries just about any basics I need and their prices are a little better too. That saves me a 1 1/2 hour drive and 10 bucks in gas....


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## Pumpkinman

Thanks for the reply and congrats on finding a LHBS near you!!


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## Boatboy24

Billberry said:


> I like the way you think Boatboy.



You're are more than welcome to bring my analysis to the budget committee to substantiate your need for a barrel.


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## Billberry

I finally got back up to the not so LHBS and went over and looked at the spirals more closely. There was actually 6 sticks in the package but they were 2 rows of 3 which in the packaging made it look like 3 sticks. The prices I saw when I was there last time were still the same exorbitant prices as before.
Then I asked the lady working there about them and found out that they were not carboy sticks but were actually sticks for oak barrels that have gone neutral! She then showed me the sticks for carboys and the size was quite a bit smaller. The price for those was close to what most on this thread has quoted; $7.50 for American and $15 for French.
Even though the ones for the barrels are approximately twice the size of the carboy ones (the diameter of them is about the same size as a barrel bung hole)and even though there are 6 in a pack the price still seems rather steep to me at around $85 and up.But I guess it's cheaper than buying a new barrel.


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## Floandgary

Just added a 4oz. pk. of med toast Hungarian chips to 6 gal bucket during fermentation (per instructions). Is that its lifespan or can I leave it in till secondary ferment is done? 2 weeks maybe


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## tonyt

If you are racking from plastic bucket primary to glass carboy secondary I would leave the chips behind. You could always leave it in plastic fermenter till dry and forgo secondary, that would give you more time on the chips. If you do rack to secondary you can add some oak cubes in secondary and even leave them in through clearing. Lots of choices, you can just kind of feel your way and see what seems more logical at the time.


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## Floandgary

That was kinda my plan. Couple extra days in primary shouldn't hurt. thanks for input


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## geek

I put oak chips in primary and leave them in bucket unti it goes dry all the way; I then rack to glass carboy and even add more chips then.


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