# Round Up



## sly22guy

Ive seen so mention around about round up. is this ok to use around my vines. they are in blue x vine shelters with mounds at the bottom of each vine is it ok to use as long as i dont spray the mound? is there a better product? any suggestions would be helpful. ive been collecting rocks from around the property to use as a mulch between the vines, but there is still a good bit of weeds and its not easy to keep up with.


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## wyntheef

Shaklee sells an _organic_ do-all called 'Basic H2' that some people have used to control weeds. I personally have never used it, but here's a snippet from a shaklee blog:

Chris says: 
May 23, 2010 at 10:16 pm
I just purchased my first bottle…I’ve been told you can used this as a spray for vegetable plants…ie bug deterent..fertilizer. I can’t find information on how much to use…

Reply 
Kimberley says: 
June 9, 2010 at 10:32 pm
* Fertilizer: 2 to 3 drops of Basic H2 per quart of water. Use once
a week. Don’t over do it.
* Weed Killer: 1/2 tbsp. of Basic H2 and 1/2 cup of Vinegar to a
gallon of water. Put in a Spray bottle and use.


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## arcticsid

I DO NOT KNOW if this is safe around the vines, BUT a couple weeks ago I did some work for a friend of mine who owns a mini storage. He had me use this round up in front of the "doors" to the individual units.

2 days later the sheet was gone.

I dont think I would want to use it around my grape vines, but, as far as "geneal" weeds, I was quite impressed.


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## midwestwine

i would not use it by it round up will kill anything maybe one day Monsanto will come out with roundup ready grape vines


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## djrockinsteve

I would NOT use anything around my vines. Even if it didn't kill your vines the roots are slowly drinking that stuff which means so will you.

Use mulch/ organic if possible. Keep it off of the vines to help protect them from moles and rot.


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## sly22guy

I hear that mulch is a bad thing to use as it retains moisture. Thats why im using rocks, just dont have enough yet. Id really like to hear from those that have vineyards and what they use.


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## djrockinsteve

I have mulch around my vines but away from the trunks. Never had a problem. I water my vines almost daily. A slow and steady trickle.


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## Runningwolf

I use round up all the time around my house. It usually takes a few weeks to totally kill. I selectively use it in the garden around plants. Ensure you do not get anything on the leaves and this includes mist if there is a breeze. Most of the vineyards are using some sort of an herbicide around here and I am in the heart of the wineries. I am not saying they use round up but I would check with your growers association or ag coop.


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## Mud

Agway sells a house product called KleenUp. Same stuff but half price.


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## grapeman

The situation you speak of is perfect for using any glyphosate product (Roundup or equivalent generic). Since you have grow tubes on, you can spray right up to the vines. If the spray doesn't touch the vine, it is fine. It acts by contact as it is absorbed into active growing green plant tissue. From there it is translocated to the roots, where it kills the weeds. One of the best times to apply it is next spring after the perennial weeds and grasses have begun to grow, but the vine is still inactive. You can spray right up to the vine, since by then it will be barky near the ground. That will kill all the weeds and grasses it touches, getting you off to a good start. 

Good luck with it and the vines.


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## mmadmikes1

there are more than 1 kind of round-up. There is one that will kill everything for a year. do your research.


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## jtstar

I was at a wine tasting here in Nebraska at a place called Nissen and they held it right in the vineyard and you could tell that he had used a chemical spray around his vines so I asked about it and he had used round up he calm that it won't kill the vines but it still scares me


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## djrockinsteve

mmadmikes1 said:


> there are more than 1 kind of round-up. There is one that will kill everything for a year. do your research.



and I'm sure there's one that won't kill for years. And that would be you.


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## sly22guy

thanks for the input grapeman!


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## grapeman

You are most welcome sly22guy.

Also what madmikes states is somewhat true. Use only Roundup or Roundup Max or generics - do not use Roundup Extended use. That contains another herbicide which may not be safe to grapes.


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## Sacalait

I use a generic round up (contains 2 4 D) throughout the growing season and as long as the spray does not come in contact with the leaves you're safe.


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## grapeman

DO NOT USE THE ROUNDUP WITH 2,4-D, IT IS NOT SAFE FOR GRAPES.

The glyphosate part is safe but the 2,4-D is highly toxic to grapes. The vapors that are given off by it affect the vines and can travel many hundreds or thousands of feet to cause damage. Never use 2,4-D products anywhere near grape vines. If you have used it with no damage, you are lucky. It causes the leaves to curl and develop fingerlike projections on the leaf edges. The vines will eventually grow out of it, but the damage can be severe.

Check this link out for more basic information
http://ipcm.wisc.edu/WCMNews/tabid/53/EntryId/696/Be-Aware-of-Grapes-and-2-4-D-Drift.aspx


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## Sacalait

Guess I'm just lucky but I've been applying the spray for 10+ yrs. without a problem.


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## grapeman

Are you sure it has 2,4-D in it? There are many generic forms of Roundup and they all contain glyphosate, not 2,4-D and are vry safe as long as you don't spray onto the vine. Check your label and see what the active ingredient is and let us know.


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## Sacalait

Just checked the label and sure enough no 2,4 D. You were right, glyphosate is the active ingregient...*MY MISTAKE.*


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## grapeman

That makes me feel better. 2,4-D kills or injures more vines than any sprays out there. It can cause damage miles away under the right atmospheric conditions.


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## Sacalait

*OK, now can you tell me if there is a herbicide on the market that is safe to spray around blackberry vines?*


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## grapeman

There is a Pest Management Guide for Brambles, etc from Cornell. Here is a link to the weed management page.
http://ipmguidelines.org/BerryCrops/content/CH04/default-4.asp


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## Sacalait

Thanks for the link.


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## Dougxox

A friend with a vinyard has his plants in an old corn field where 2 4 D was used and still in a constant fight to keep them growing years later.

Doing some research found Rely, its designed for fruit trees and grape and berry crops. Not too good on young plants, but some reading says it can be used for killing suckers with out harming the parent plant. Still working on more info before I begin use of it. 

http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/cm/news/2010/Rely280/

If any one has some experence with this stuff let me know.


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## Airplanedoc

Since I live in farm country, I will pass on a bit of advise on Roundup. 

You can buy the roundup pump and spray for $15-20 It contains about 1% glyphosate. If you look around you can pick up a smaller bottle of roundup that contains 40% glyphosphate ( It is Purple or Red) costs about $50. You can put this in a pump sprayer with the appropriate amount of water and dilute it down to 1-2%. It will save you a ton of money in the long run.

Generally you want roundup on the leaves of the plants that you want to kill, I have never used it around grapes, but have used it in very close proximity of expensive plants I want to keep with no ill effects.


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## sly22guy

lol this post is over a year old. But yeah all of the info still holds true! Good info on the smaller bottles of round up 40% is that just the concentrate?


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## Randoneur

I use it (roundup) on mine. I go through the vineyard and strip everything green from the trunk starting at the ground and going up 2 feet before spraying. You can't get it on any green growth or the vine will take it up.


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## Dougxox

here is some more info on Rely:

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Wine/Resources/winegrowernews124.htm#New

round up sounds just too dangerious to use around grapes.


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## grapeman

Roundup is actually quite safe around grapes. Don't get it on green tissue and no problem. Don't spray in windy conditions and it is quite safe.


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## JohnnyRico

sly22guy said:


> Id really like to hear from those that have vineyards and what they use.



With my first set up I used mulch and made two long rows with a brick boarder. Looked great, and easy to maintain and mow/weed whack around. The following year my vines were INFESTED with these really cool looking metallic blue beetles. When I attempted to catch them for closer inspection and to identify what they were I noticed they would bounce off the vine much like a flea.. turns out I was dealing with the Flea beetle. During the winter months they live in the mulch and in early spring they come to life and feed on the first buds of plant matter growing on the previous year’s wood. Once identification of the beetle was confirmed, "_Battle:BV_" (Backyard Vineyard) was on. I will save that story for another thread. :: 

If you are going to use mulch, watch for insects that might use it as a home. I’m going to stones this spring.


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## Brew and Wine Supply

Blue beatle... sounds like a Japanese beatle...


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## grapeman

No Doug - it is the Steely beetle or commonly known as the flea beetle because of their backwards sprining action like a flea. Japanese beetles are a greenish blue and brown like you show and are also about 50 times as large. Flea beetles are 10 times more destructive to crop than are the Japanese beetle because they feed right before budbreak and hollow the bud out - getting rid of all blooms in that bud. The go right along the shoots and canes like you eating an ear of corn. They can destroy a whole years crop in a day or two. Japanese beetles feed on the leaves and make a lot of holes so it is more cosmetic than anything else.


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## JohnnyRico

Grapeman is correct.. And what leaves you do get growing on your vine will become infested with the beetle larva worms.


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## Brew and Wine Supply

Thanks for the info, don't think we have them here. No one is talking about them.


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## JohnnyRico

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> Thanks for the info, don't think we have them here. No one is talking about them.



I can send you some if you would like..


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## grapeman

JohnnyRico said:


> I can send you some if you would like..


 

Me two! They aren't bad every year just every few. That is one advantage to using Integrated Pest Management. You scout for an action threshold amount and only then do you spray for them.


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## Brew and Wine Supply

JohnnyRico said:


> I can send you some if you would like..





grapeman said:


> Me two! They aren't bad every year just every few. That is one advantage to using Integrated Pest Management. You scout for an action threshold amount and only then do you spray for them.



Ahhh, no thanks guys, you can keep them...


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## TxBrew

JohnnyRico said:


> With my first set up I used mulch and made two long rows with a brick boarder. Looked great, and easy to maintain and mow/weed whack around. The following year my vines were INFESTED with these really cool looking metallic blue beetles. When I attempted to catch them for closer inspection and to identify what they were I noticed they would bounce off the vine much like a flea.. turns out I was dealing with the Flea beetle. During the winter months they live in the mulch and in early spring they come to life and feed on the first buds of plant matter growing on the previous year’s wood. Once identification of the beetle was confirmed, "_Battle:BV_" (Backyard Vineyard) was on. I will save that story for another thread. ::
> 
> If you are going to use mulch, watch for insects that might use it as a home. I’m going to stones this spring.



What solution finally worked in getting rid of them?


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## JohnnyRico

Last year I used a chemical spray I bought from Ace that was ok to use on plant matter you later intend to eat. After the discovery of this forum, however, this year I will be using the JMS oil.


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## grapeman

There are several effective treatments for them Svein works well, but if you want to use organic DE works for them also. I'm not sure Stylet oil will suffocate them, which is the general mode of action for it.


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## deboard

Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd drag up this one that has a lot of useful info in it. I am looking at this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I1O5UW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

to mix with water and save some money. It is 41% glyphosate with "surfactant". Not sure what Surfactant is. Safe for grapes or not?


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## Boatboy24

A surfactant in this case generally just helps the active ingredient "stick" to the leaves, thereby making it a little more effective. Some home gardeners/lawn freaks will add a surfactant to herbicides to help them stick to weeds that would otherwise be "slippery". Often for Joe Homeonwer, that surfactant might be as simple as a little dish soap.


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## grapeman

Another way of saying surfactant is "spreader sticker".


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## deboard

Good, so it's as safe as Round up then, I kinda figured that was what it was, but better safe than sorry. I went ahead and bought it.


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## spaniel

I use glyphosate around my vines, no issues. Don't get it on the green part.

Make sure it's not the type that contains 2,4D. A few years back someone in my neighborhood sprayed their lawn; I could smell it in the air. A couple days later, the leaves on my first row of vines facing the neighborhood curled. Fortunately they recovered.

I talked to my next door neighbor who runs a lawncare business and does all the spraying in the area; he now avoids spraying when the wind is blowing towards my vineyard. And I planed a row of redbuds upwind of my vines to help catch any spray before it gets to them.


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## ThePlantGuy978

I use round up or it's geric equivalent all of the time around my grape and muscadine vines. Just make sure you don't hit any of the vine leaves. I have been using it for years. Do not use Clean up it can mess up your soil, round up will not.


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## FABulousWines

I visited a winery a couple weeks ago. It was obvious they had used something around the vines so I asked and they said it was Round Up. These vines are pretty old and he explained that the roots were so deep that Round Up really isn't an issue unless you are sloppy and get it on the vine. They generally spray just as the buds start coming out. I am no expert here, but just wanted to share some that I heard from someone who is.


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## garymc

I haven't seen these studies. Can you cite some of them?


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