# what do you HATE the most about wine making?



## blueberryboy (Nov 24, 2016)

Hey This is my first time on the forum.

What is the thing you HATE the most about the wine making process?

The worst for me was pressing the fruit and bottling.


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## Rocky (Nov 24, 2016)

Welcome to the forum. 

I really don't hate any part of wine making although I would have to say that bottling is my "least favorite" part of the process. Over the years, however, I have developed a process which makes it fun. The good side of bottling is the great feeling of accomplishment once I am done with it. 

If there is one thing I do "hate" it is seeing the last bottle of a great batch of wine go!


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## bkisel (Nov 24, 2016)

Welcome to the forum!

You mentioned two things. For me it would be cleanup and carrying full carboys from the kitchen down the stairs to the basement.


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## ceeaton (Nov 24, 2016)

For me it is an empty bottle. Ask any bottle, it feels useless without wine in it. The best is a full bottle as I remove the cork and pour some in my glass or someone else's glass. And now that the Turkey is in the oven and the pies are made, I need to get off my duff and both fill some bottles and eventually empty one or two.


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## Rodnboro (Nov 24, 2016)

The cleanup


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## mennyg19 (Nov 24, 2016)

Hand destemming was pretty bad. But what really gets me is the cleanup.


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## Jericurl (Nov 24, 2016)

Hands down, cleaning the bottles getting ready for bottling.


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## biscmc (Nov 24, 2016)

Rinse, clean, rinse, sanitize. Repeat. 

Endlessly cleaning and sanitizing equipment; although very necessary, is tedious and time-consuming.


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## montanaWineGuy (Nov 24, 2016)

Jericurl said:


> Hands down, cleaning the bottles getting ready for bottling.



I'll second that. Especially when it's cold outside. Hands get freezing cold.


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## Floandgary (Nov 24, 2016)

blueberryboy said:


> Hey This is my first time on the forum.
> 
> What is the thing you HATE the most about the wine making process?
> 
> The worst for me was pressing the fruit and bottling.



Ask yourself this ,,, What part of waking up to a new day do you hate the most?? Treat ANY endeavor as an adventure to be enjoyed!! You'll thank yourself when it's done


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## heatherd (Nov 24, 2016)

I don't hate anything, but the part I like the least is cleaning carboys. Primaries are so much easier to clean!


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## NorCal (Nov 24, 2016)

The worst part for me is having to wait to see the results. A year in the barrel, 6 months in the bottle.


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## jgmann67 (Nov 24, 2016)

The waiting is the hardest part. But, I hate cleanup the most.


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## ceeaton (Nov 24, 2016)

jgmann67 said:


> The waiting is the hardest part...



Brings a Tom Petty song to mind...


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## blueberryboy (Nov 24, 2016)

Nice responses. I was just trying to find some of the most common dislikes of wine making. I am always trying to find new ideas to make things easier. So I thought would see what the common dislikes were, and try to find new things to work on improving.

One of the things I saw at a friends winery; was he used a squirt bottle with sanitizer, so the sanitizer could more accessible. I am trying that to see how it works. so far it is very handy


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## jgmann67 (Nov 24, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Brings a Tom Petty song to mind...




It's a song we winemakers sing most.


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## Mismost (Nov 24, 2016)

cleaning bottles, scrapping labels, drinking the last bottle of a batch.


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## bkisel (Nov 24, 2016)

blueberryboy said:


> Nice responses. I was just trying to find some of the most common dislikes of wine making. I am always trying to find new ideas to make things easier. So I thought would see what the common dislikes were, and try to find new things to work on improving.
> 
> One of the things I saw at a friends winery; was he used a squirt bottle with sanitizer, so the sanitizer could more accessible. I am trying that to see how it works. so far it is very handy



We're called "Spritzers".




You'll find a bunch of us here.


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## drainsurgeon (Nov 24, 2016)

I have to agree with waiting....for.....wine......to age and .....mature. Sometimes it seems like children grow up and mature faster than that carboy downstairs!

Patience is for Doctors!


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## Stressbaby (Nov 25, 2016)

I had a totally different answer to this question.

What I had most about winemaking is thinking that I have the wine perfectly adjusted when I bottle it, then tasting it 3 months later and thinking, shoot, it needed more acid/less acid/more sugar/less sugar/more this/less that. I still really struggle with the late adjustments.


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## joeswine (Nov 25, 2016)

*[B. ]nothing[!*


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## terrymck (Nov 25, 2016)

Being too cheap to buy bottles; scraping labels from bottles and/or removing old glue is real drudgery.


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## berrycrush (Nov 25, 2016)

Cleaning ( washing, sanitizing, rinsing, scraping, mopping ... )


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 25, 2016)

Removing labels. Except from kit wines. Those come off quite easily. Mine, however, do not.


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## montanaWineGuy (Nov 25, 2016)

I just bottle up 25 of Apple Wine, and cleaned 30 for the Oregon Grape wine to be bottle tomorrow. My hands are nearly frozen, and I was able to wear gloves during some of the process.


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## montanaWineGuy (Nov 25, 2016)

terrymck said:


> Being too cheap to buy bottles; scraping labels from bottles and/or removing old glue is real drudgery.



I use school glue for my labels. They come off with some water.


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## terrymck (Nov 25, 2016)

My labels come off ok , it's the commercial ones. Both front and back make twice as much work.


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## bkisel (Nov 25, 2016)

montanaWineGuy said:


> I just bottle up 25 of Apple Wine, and cleaned 30 for the Oregon Grape wine to be bottle tomorrow. My hands are nearly frozen, and I was able to wear gloves during some of the process.



How did your hands get nearly frozen? Were you bottling outside?


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## montanaWineGuy (Nov 26, 2016)

bkisel said:


> How did your hands get nearly frozen? Were you bottling outside?



In the garage. Temp in the mid 30s.


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## JohnT (Nov 26, 2016)

Fruit flies!!!


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## ceeaton (Nov 26, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Fruit flies!!!



Get a tropical fish tank. Then hire the neighborhood kids to catch them and feed them to the fish. My neons are very happy fish and my kids feel like they are helping the wine making process, which they are.


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## montanaWineGuy (Nov 26, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Get a tropical fish tank. Then hire the neighborhood kids to catch them and feed them to the fish. My neons are very happy fish and my kids feel like they are helping the wine making process, which they are.



How many fruit flies per 1c?


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## wpt-me (Nov 29, 2016)

I can't think of anything, it's all good, except maybe the fruit flies.

Bill


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## dcbrown73 (Nov 29, 2016)

1. All the cleaning and sanitation, but it's critical part of the process.
2. Bottling which for me is by far the messiest step and the only step I have real trouble doing by myself. (thankfully I have someone that helps me bottle!)


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 29, 2016)

I don't like the fruit flies - 

As for all the other issues , I developed alot of my products because they were all a pain until I decided there has to be an easier way.


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## dcbrown73 (Nov 29, 2016)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I don't like the fruit flies -
> 
> As for all the other issues , I developed alot of my products because they were all a pain until I decided there has to be an easier way.



Okay, next on your agenda. Rapid aging of wines because it's a PAIN waiting two years for my reds to be ready!


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## Johnd (Nov 29, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> Okay, next on your agenda. Rapid aging of wines because it's a PAIN waiting two years for my reds to be ready!



Funny, I used the feel the same way. Now, I look at the three carboys in the wine room that came out of the barrels months ago, labelled "Ready to Bottle" and love the fact that they are still in glass at 14 months old!!!!!


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 29, 2016)

Johnd said:


> Funny, I used the feel the same way. Now, I look at the three carboys in the wine room that came out of the barrels months ago, labelled "Ready to Bottle" and love the fact that they are still in glass at 14 months old!!!!!



I feel the same way as Johnd - Once you start making more wines than you can drink - then they get a chance to start aging.


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## AZMDTed (Nov 29, 2016)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I feel the same way as Johnd - Once you start making more wines than you can drink - then they get a chance to start aging.



This is absolutely true. It takes about a year of going nuts making many many kits to get ahead of the curve, but once you do six months, nine months, a year in a carboy is no big deal. Assuming of course you have invested your 401k into carboy and barrel companies


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## jpsmithny (Dec 17, 2017)

I HATE REMOVING LABELS!

So I started thinking and tried a new method that looks promising. 

Take a soaking wet paper towel that covers the wine bottle label and place the whole bottle in the microwave on high for exactly one minute.

Label peels right off if it's one that would slip off in the OXYClean bath and with a minimum amount of persuasion if it's one of those that is usually a little more stubborn.

Still working on an easy method to get the residual glue off.


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## skyfire322 (Dec 17, 2017)

The math/conversions only because I have to think so hard lol


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## benchmstr (Dec 18, 2017)

aging...

the bench


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## Trick (Dec 20, 2017)

biscmc said:


> Rinse, clean, rinse, sanitize. Repeat.
> 
> Endlessly cleaning and sanitizing equipment; although very necessary, is tedious and time-consuming.


You said it. Agree with u 100%.


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## GaDawg (Dec 28, 2017)

label peeling!


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## pgentile (Dec 28, 2017)

It was label peeling, but I stopped putting labels on every bottle, only putting labels on bottles I give away now. Just marking tops of corks with batch #'s. 

#1 is definitely patience with aging.


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## balatonwine (Dec 29, 2017)

I don't hate anything.

But, of course, there are a few tasks that could be more enjoyable, especially If I got some better equipment and tool upgrades. Which will be fun. New tools and equipment to play with.


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## Snowcreek (Dec 29, 2017)

The only thing I dislike is not being able to try all of the new varietals and blends that we discover every year.

My oldest daughter helps me with cleaning and bottling, so it doesn't matter if it takes longer because that just means more family time with her. 

So many on the list of wines to make, so little time and money!


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## balatonwine (Dec 30, 2017)

Snowcreek said:


> My oldest daughter helps me with cleaning and bottling, so it doesn't matter if it takes longer because that just means more family time with her.



I like that thought.

I am not a "car guy" but my father was. And I would often just sit out with him when he worked on his cars, and hand him tools when he was under the car, just to spend time with my dad.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 31, 2017)

pgentile said:


> It was label peeling, but I stopped putting labels on every bottle, only putting labels on bottles I give away now. Just marking tops of corks with batch #'s.
> 
> #1 is definitely patience with aging.



Only labeling bottles you give away is a good idea. Although I've been using the "Label Making Paper" which comes right off and creating my own labels. They're not as professional as some I see and I'm not the greatest with the graphic software so it sometimes takes me forever to create them.


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## KristopherSmith (Jan 4, 2018)

Needing a floor corker instead of that hand corker. That, and peeling labels for bottles rather than buying new.


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## Ron0126 (Jan 5, 2018)

Label removal, bottle cleaning, and I hate it when I put on my own label and it's crooked ... ugh.


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## Siwash (Jan 5, 2018)

testing and racking isn't that fun... especially when you have to check s02 every couple months... of course cleaning/sanitizing is a pain..


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## Ajmassa (Jan 5, 2018)

Oddly, I kinda enjoy doin all the lab testing. 

But Hearing the words “I feel like I have to compete with the wine for your attention!” 
Or
“How much longer are u gonna be down there?”
Or having to explain the importance of a primary fermentation every single time!


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## mainshipfred (Jan 6, 2018)

I too like the lab work, racking and everything else ( except delabeling). What I don't like is when work gets in the way of me doing this.


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## cgallamo (Jan 6, 2018)

Welcome to the forum triple B. This is like a personality test - I can't decide! I simultaneously love and hate about all aspects of this hobby - what does that say?


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 6, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> “How much longer are u gonna be down there?”



I don't always hate hearing that.


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## Ajmassa (Jan 6, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> I don't always hate hearing that.



It’s all about the tones man. Said one way can make ya cringe. Said another can get ya to drop everything! —-I hate the first one.


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## montanaWineGuy (Jan 9, 2018)

I had a yellow jacket wasp in a bottle the other day.

Bottling wine in the garage later summer has its downside. 



vacuumpumpman said:


> I don't like the fruit flies -
> 
> As for all the other issues , I developed alot of my products because they were all a pain until I decided there has to be an easier way.


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## Toonster (Jan 9, 2018)

Not a hate, but an irritation:

Not having enough space to make everything that I want to! I don't mind the whole patience thing once they are getting going, it's just that I've got plans for the next three or four different batches, and I've only got one fermenter barrel, one 23l carboy, and three 5l ones (and only kitchen floor space to play with).

That and not having enough space to store the empty wine bottles whilst I'm waiting for a batch to be ready to bottle - I *know* I'm going to need them all once the elderflower, blackcurrant and mead are done, but trying to find places for them where we (a) don't trip over them and (b) they won't make a massive mess if we have another earthquake is getting very difficult!


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## JohnT (Jan 11, 2018)

Ron0126 said:


> Label removal.....



I notice that many have this as a hated task.

Let me ask.. If you hate label removal, then why do you apply them? I know that if you are using recycled bottles, that the labels need to initially come off, but why put another label on after that (especially if you plan on reusing the bottle over and over again)?

I never label my wine. Normally, I keep my wines in my "diamond cube" wine rack that holds 5 cases per cube. I use bottleneck tags to I.D. what is in each bin. The most I do is to write a letter (e.g. "M" for merlot or "PS" for petit sarah) on the top of the cork if I am gifting (so we can tell them apart).


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## montanaWineGuy (Jan 11, 2018)

I've stopped labeling wine that is for my consumption. I use to do it as I was proud of my newly found accomplishment. The bloom is off that rose. Now I'm wondering if I should just pour it into the glass straight from the Carboy (or should I call it the 6 gallon wine decanter). 



JohnT said:


> I notice that many have this as a hated task.
> 
> Let me ask.. If you hate label removal, then why do you apply them? I know that if you are using recycled bottles, that the labels need to initially come off, but why put another label on after that (especially if you plan on reusing the bottle over and over again)?
> 
> I never label my wine. Normally, I keep my wines in my "diamond cube" wine rack that holds 5 cases per cube. I use bottleneck tags to I.D. what is in each bin. The most I do is to write a letter (e.g. "M" for merlot or "PS" for petit sarah) on the top of the cork if I am gifting (so we can tell them apart).


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## cmason1957 (Jan 11, 2018)

I just label mine with easy to remove Avery labels and I keep going smaller and smaller with them. I have used 1 inch circles, but my wife likes the 2X2 inch labels. They remove without any scraping, just lift a corner and pull.


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## vacuumpumpman (Jan 11, 2018)

I like JohnT - 
Dont like to scrape off labels - so most of my bottles we use a paint pen and it comes off very easy


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## balatonwine (Jan 12, 2018)

Removing wine labels....

This is how I see it. Think outside the box.

If you are not selling your wine, and are not bound to labeling laws then consider any number of creative solutions (list not exhaustive):

1) Just get a larger label and paste that over the exiting label

2) Get some sandpaper, and just distress the old label. Then use a string label such as







with your design draped over the bottle neck, and some sealing wax to fix the string in place. Some creative wording like "Old Joe's Barrel Wine, Prohibition Style" and an old timey looking paper (burn the edges a little) for the label to enhance the effect.

3) Just do a so-so job to remove the label then use a grease pencil to write your wine's info on the bottle. Similar to option 2 above, to give that "distressed look". The paper and glue left from the old label is then a feature, not a bug. 

4) Just buy new bottles for the wine you give to friends. 

5) If you just drink your own wine, who cares what the old labels are or if they are still on the bottles? Just use option 2 or 3 so you know what is in the bottle.

Side note: Options 2 and 3 make your wine look more aged than it probably is. Nothing wrong with that.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 12, 2018)

I decided awhile ago to buy new bottles and ask the people I gift to to return the empties. The labels I use come off very easy by just soaking in water.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 13, 2018)

Tic Toc, Tic Toc,


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## Doug’s wines (Jan 15, 2018)

montanaWineGuy said:


> 6 gallon wine decanter



OMG....  That’s hilarious.


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## baron4406 (Jan 16, 2018)

Darn MLF, can't get one to finish no matter what. After 3 months i gave up on some of my California wines, the other are over 3 months and still not done. I followed every step to the letter too. What grinds my gears is I had 3 batches now that had spontaneous MLF happen after a year in the carboy. Frustrating.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 16, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> Tic Toc, Tic Toc,



I have to agree with this one!


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## Johnd (Jan 16, 2018)

baron4406 said:


> Darn MLF, can't get one to finish no matter what. After 3 months i gave up on some of my California wines, the other are over 3 months and still not done. I followed every step to the letter too. What grinds my gears is I had 3 batches now that had spontaneous MLF happen after a year in the carboy. Frustrating.



Try coinoculating with VP41, my wines are typically taking 4-5 weeks from starting AF and MLF, to completion. It’s a breeze.


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## Toonster (Jan 17, 2018)

Newbie to wine-speak - what's MLF?


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## balatonwine (Jan 17, 2018)

Toonster said:


> what's MLF?



Malolactic fermentation.


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## Toonster (Jan 17, 2018)

balatonwine said:


> Malolactic fermentation.



Thanks :-D


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## gitmo234 (Feb 4, 2018)

I hate a few things, but most of it boils down to not being able to upscale and how much you CANT work with it while making it. If it were up to me I'd be punching caps all day, testing and experimenting with it all the time. Reality is most of the time is aging. If I could match my income I'd quit work and do it full time.

I also hate that I'm hit and miss with wine, and I truly love the process and craft behind it. I'm disinterested in beer pretty much, but it seems like I have to deliberately try to mess up the beer to go wrong.


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## Toonster (Feb 5, 2018)

Not so much a hate, more of a *sigh* - I've recently learned that NZ licencing laws mean that if I want to share my brew with friends in any shape or form (e.g. take a bottle round to a board gaming session; give one as a 'thank you for having us' present), I have to be fully licenced. (including inspection of the brewing area, keeping full accounts of everything, and, of course, paying duty)

So - it looks like me and my husband (no licence needed for immediate family...) are going to be drinking a lot of wine...!


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## Ajmassa (Feb 6, 2018)

Toonster said:


> Not so much a hate, more of a *sigh* - I've recently learned that NZ licencing laws mean that if I want to share my brew with friends in any shape or form (e.g. take a bottle round to a board gaming session; give one as a 'thank you for having us' present), I have to be fully licenced. (including inspection of the brewing area, keeping full accounts of everything, and, of course, paying duty)


 Well I doubt you’ve never gifted a bottle in the past. This is appalling. We do not condone criminal behavior here. 
Enjoy your game night and keep your mouth shut! If anyone rats just point him out to us. The last snitch from NZ ended up shark food.


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## JohnT (Feb 6, 2018)

Yes, we from Jersey know how problems can just disappear.. LOL

Seriously though, it is so sad when government curtails a person's freedom. 

I feel for ya.


p.s. I have to ask, if you gift a bottle to a friend, and you get caught, what is the penalty?


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## Toonster (Feb 9, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Well I doubt you’ve never gifted a bottle in the past. This is appalling. We do not condone criminal behavior here.
> Enjoy your game night and keep your mouth shut! If anyone rats just point him out to us. The last snitch from NZ ended up shark food.



Me? Gift bottles? <innocent whistling>

We have had sharks in the region recently... https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/348244/harmless-sharks-spotted-in-wellington-harbour





JohnT said:


> p.s. I have to ask, if you gift a bottle to a friend, and you get caught, what is the penalty?



I can't find the legislation now (like all govt websites, if you don't know the exact keywords to search, you get pages of rubbish...), but I think it's $3,000 per bottle (just over $2,000 US), confiscation of equipment, plus a criminal conviction which would probably lose me my job and make it significantly harder to get a future in my industry.

So - whilst it is highly unlikely that anyone I hypothetically gave a bottle to would complain to customs & excise, and it's not like I'm creating on a scale that would make anyone want to come snooping, the penalties are just not worth the risk!


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## JohnT (Feb 12, 2018)

TWO GRAND???? 

You have got to be kidding me!


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## Toonster (Feb 12, 2018)

They are serious about people not paying their tax on alcohol!

Admittedly, all the news reports I can find are about people being prosecuted for onselling products from their home stills (also legal for personal consumption), but the penalties apply to all forms of home brew.


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## Donatelo (Feb 13, 2018)

Definitely the waiting while ageing.


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## Igor (Feb 13, 2018)

I agree with Donatelo,,, Waiting


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