# first time makin wine kit. worried about overflow



## shanek17 (May 3, 2012)

So this is my first wine kit and im following these paper instructions for the wine kit. but somethin tells me that there will be alot of foam comin out and overflow! i have made red wine from frozen concentrate and it was bubbiling out of the 1 gallon jug and making a mess. and now iv got this kit in a 6 gal carboy. so im trying to thibk ahead here. 
Its a barolo red wine with champagne yeast number EC-1118. the instruction said to top up with quality water to 23liters. . so i did that. and luckily i have a bit of head space. but do you all think this will be a big mess? are there any ideas incase it begins erupting like a volcano. i was thinkin of adding a big funnel on the top to give the wine extra space to move up if it needs it. but no time for testing rite now cuz i gotta go to work! Ill check on the post later tonight. thanks


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## cpfan (May 3, 2012)

Shane:


Which kit are you making? Knowing the exact kit can help us to provide better answers. Most kits make 5 Imperial gallons or 6 US gallons or 23 litres. (Knowing your location often helps too. It would appear that you are in Canada or the UK based on your post.)
Are you starting this kit in the carboy? You should starting your wines in a primary fermenter (pail) preferably with enough spare room. I would recommend a 7.9 US gallon primary minimum in case you decide to get into kits with grape skins. Then you shouldn't have to worry about overflow.
Steve


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## shanek17 (May 3, 2012)

oh good point steve. its a vino italiano 4 week wine kit. as i said its a red barolo wine. it says on the box it makes 23 liters or 6US gallons. i am in southern ontario canada. Our weather has been up and down as we approach summer but lately its been warmer thats why i got it this batch started last night. yes i put rite into a carboy i thought that would be better. but i do have plastic pails. is it too late to siphon it into a pail. or would that be too much stress on the yeast? its been about 24 hours and there is fermentarion activity happenin rite now!


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## robie (May 3, 2012)

shanek17 said:


> oh good point steve. its a vino italiano 4 week wine kit. as i said its a red barolo wine. it says on the box it makes 23 liters or 6US gallons. i am in southern ontario canada. Our weather has been up and down as we approach summer but lately its been warmer thats why i got it this batch started last night. yes i put rite into a carboy i thought that would be better. but i do have plastic pails. is it too late to siphon it into a pail. or would that be too much stress on the yeast? its been about 24 hours and there is fermentarion activity happenin rite now!



No stress on the yeast at this point. It would actually help add more air (for the O2), which is a benefit early on in fermentation. As Steve said, you really should move this to a bucket, as you will surely get a lot of foam.

If you don't have a bucket designed specifically for fermentation, use a food grade bucket.


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## DoctorCAD (May 3, 2012)

You say you put it in a 5 gallon carboy??? 

23 liters is 6 gallons. How can you fit 23 liters in a 5 gallon carboy and still have headspace?


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## shanek17 (May 3, 2012)

good call doc! I just edited it to 6 gallons. Its a 6 gallon carboy. I do have a plastic jug but the thing is it had beer in it before. my uncle makes beer and he gave me it to use. is that okay to use it for wine? i have Cleaned it out already but iv heard it can transfer flavours over. Or is that just a urban legend? haha

also i noticed there is thick jelly looking gunk building up around the neck of tbe carboy, as you can see in the picture. but im wonderin if i svould be stirring it in there. is it good to stir during primary?


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## cpfan (May 3, 2012)

DoctorCAD said:


> You say you put it in a 5 gallon carboy???
> 
> 23 liters is 6 gallons. How can you fit 23 liters in a 5 gallon carboy and still have headspace?


Doc...He's a Canadian. 5 Imperial (or Canadian) gallons equals 6 US gallons. (As I said in my first post.)

Steve


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## shanek17 (May 3, 2012)

So i came home just now and my wine was overflowin all over. today was really hot here so i guess thats why. i ended up puttin a big funnel in the top and its working. now the over flow has alot of extra space to do its thing. I could transfer it to my pail tommorow. after i check that its big enough. but im still wondering if its okay to use this pail. The pail is made for alcohol brewin but its been used exclusivley for beer. is this goin to ruin the wine? or is it not of concern. 

you see the ladie who told me not too use beer fermenters for wine use, was also a equipment salesperson so i dont know if she was just trying to sell more equipment : /


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## cpfan (May 3, 2012)

I like to keep my beer pail separate from my wine pails. Other folks don't seem to think that it is a problem.

Stick your nose in the pail. If it really really smells of beer, then you probably don't want to use it. If the beer smell is non-existent or very mild, then go right ahead.

BTW, the funnel idea is quite inventive.

Steve


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## shanek17 (May 4, 2012)

cpfan said:


> Doc...He's a Canadian. 5 Imperial (or Canadian) gallons equals 6 US gallons. (As I said in my first post.)
> 
> Steve



yea i am canadian. but i think my carboy is a american standard size. Because on the bottom it says 6 gallons (23 liters). actually it also says made in mexico on it so im assuming mexico and the US have the same measurment standard. however i find these different country standards confusing!


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## DoctorCAD (May 4, 2012)

shanek17 said:


> yea i am canadian. but i think my carboy is a ameri an standsrd size. Because on the bottom it says 6 gallons (23 liters). actually it also says made in mexico on it so im assuming mexico and the US have the same measurment standard. however i find these different standards confusing!



The made in Mexico ones are 6 US gallons. 
You can just continue to primary in the carboy, the worst of the foaming should be done in a week or so.

You will need to top off the carboy for secondary fermentation, with as much as you are losing, I'd use a wine with the same grape as the kit. Read the directions, some say to top up right at transfer to the secondary, some say not to top up until final.


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## Arne (May 4, 2012)

If you set the carboy in some kind of tray, or take a large garbage bag and set it in, the mess is much easier to clean up If it decides to overflow. Guess how I know. Arne.


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## g8keeper (May 4, 2012)

for future, for primary fermentation, you always want to use a vessel larger than your intended batch...to make it easier on yourself from now on, get yourself, if you can, a 7.9 gallon (us) (not sure off-hand what the imperial equivalent is) bucket with a lid to use as a primary, which will ensure that when doing a 6 gallon batch, you will have plenty of headspace for your vigorous primary fermentation and won't have to worry about spill over (at least under MOST circumstances)....if you choose to go with an all glass route, i would suggest buying a 6.5 gallon carboy, perhaps for doing 5 gallon batches and/or perhaps larger demijohns for bigger batches....but for cost sake, and convenience if you choose to wines from fresh fruit and grapes, i would recommend going with plastic fermenters....you can even pick up food grade plastic trash buckets to use for batches over 10 gallons....just giving up a heads up for the future....


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## robie (May 4, 2012)

It's not required that you top off during secondary fermentation, other than maybe just to replace the wine you lost from the wine volcano incident. Always top off during clearing and during any bulk aging.

That beer fermentor bucket will work fine, if it is food grade and does not smell like beer. In the long run I would have a separate bucket for wine fermentation.


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## DoctorCAD (May 4, 2012)

robie said:


> It's not required that you top off during secondary fermentation, other than maybe just to replace the wine you lost from the wine volcano incident. Always top off during clearing and during any bulk aging.
> 
> That beer fermentor bucket will work fine, if it is food grade and does not smell like beer. In the long run I would have a separate bucket for wine fermentation.



Some kits actually have you top off for secondary, some during final.


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## Pebbles (May 9, 2012)

I've been doing kits for almost 2 years now. My hubby does beer. We have been using the same glass carboys for awhile. I do have my own wine primaries but that's because I'm good @ keeping my full & I will fill up a carboy as soon as its empty


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## Pebbles (May 9, 2012)

Also I've never had any issued with overflowing with any kits (I've done about 8 different ones) in a primary bucket. I started with a 6.5 gal primary & have purchased another 7.9 gal. I think the bigger one does better, personally.


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## sully (May 9, 2012)

i have 2 sizes of carboys one is 6 gal and the other 5 i believe. i start in fermenting bucket for 5-7 days after this i get a hydro reading and if right i move to 6 gal carboy for a week or so when ready for stage three i move into a smaller carboy same size as yours in picture i believe. the tight head space gives less oxygen on top but i move to smaller carboy after fermentation has stopped. never tried that tight head space when fermenting i will be curious how it turns out.


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## shanek17 (May 11, 2012)

sully said:


> i have 2 sizes of carboys one is 6 gal and the other 5 i believe. i start in fermenting bucket for 5-7 days after this i get a hydro reading and if right i move to 6 gal carboy for a week or so when ready for stage three i move into a smaller carboy same size as yours in picture i believe. the tight head space gives less oxygen on top but i move to smaller carboy after fermentation has stopped. never tried that tight head space when fermenting i will be curious how it turns out.



cool. yea i guess its good to have variety of carboys and pails so you can be creative with it. i do have a good amount of head space for secondary now. and i think it will work our nicely since i will be topping up with the kits additives and chemicals soon. also iv seen craig from craigtube mention diluting one of his additives from his kit; i believe it was pot sorbate. so using this method may be a good way of helping top up the carboy. but well see when i get there.


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## lorne (Jun 13, 2012)

I've used pails for both wine and beer for over 10 yrs. with out a problem. Just ensure the pail is a food grade and that you clean/sterilize after each use and unless immediately using again, do the sterilizing before the next use. And of course, rinse, rinse, rinse!


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## Wiz (Jun 13, 2012)

Are you fermenting in the carboy? Initial fermentation should be done in a primary ferment bucket or similar container of some form.

Mike


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## shanek17 (Jun 13, 2012)

Wiz said:


> Are you fermenting in the carboy? Initial fermentation should be done in a primary ferment bucket or similar container of some form.
> 
> Mike


yup. check out the picture in the first post. Im just waiting for this batch to degas so i can let it clear... but so farcits proving to be a gery difficult batch to degas, even at temps of 75 to 80 degrees.


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## saramc (Jun 24, 2012)

Remind me again...when did you start this kit? What date did you put it under airlock? What is current specific gravity?
Where are you in regard to your kit instructions....has this been racked yet? 
You say you have a lot of headspace in the secondary---how much headspace, can you post a photo?

Kits are well known for their difficulty in degassing. It may be even more difficult for you since you started in a carboy and not a bucket. Usually in a bucket until you rack to a carboy and put under airlock you are stirring the wine once/twice a day, this allows for better flocculation of the yeast and some offgassing---though the bulk of the off-gassing occurs after the fermentation process has stopped.

You mentioned have a "plastic" jug that someone gave you some beer in--unless it is a better bottle type container (or indicated appropriate for wine/fermentation) I would not recommend using it. The acidity level(s) can wreak havoc on the plastic and you don't want that leeching into your wine, plus you have oxygen exchange that occurs in your basic plastic (think milk jug, water bottle). 

If you are going to proceed in your winemaking adventures I would strongly recommend collecting various size glass bottles (think gallon glass jug that apple cider typically comes in, 1.5L wine bottles, 375-500-750ml bottles) and bungs. In a pinch you CAN put a latex balloon over the top of a wine bottle to act as a temporary airlock--hey, don't knock it, it has saved my behind MANY times.


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## shanek17 (Jun 24, 2012)

saramc said:


> Remind me again...when did you start this kit? What date did you put it under airlock? What is current specific gravity?
> Where are you in regard to your kit instructions....has this been racked yet?
> You say you have a lot of headspace in the secondary---how much headspace, can you post a photo?
> 
> ...



i started the wine on may2 and it went to secondary and airlocked on may8th. it was downstairs in the cold basement for 2 weeks but then i heard it cant clear if it isnt degassed. so i brought it upstairs in a 75 F temperature room. and iv been degassing it pretty much every day for weeks. im using a cordless drill and degas tool so its not like im doing it slow by hand. and i did degas it well when it was in fermentation. the instructions said it would help. and just because i wasnt in a plastic primary that did not stop me from pulling out the drill! 

and its curently at SG .992 and iv racked it a couple times. there was some head space but i topped up my carboy with water so its fine now.... i just need to get it degassed but honestly its just getting annoying now. iv degassed so much and iv followed the instructions. now in hesitant to get another wine kit becausr of this. or maybe its because its a cheap 35$ wine kit...


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## cpfan (Jun 24, 2012)

Shane:

Why do you think it isn't degassed yet? Because you're still getting foam from the drill/attachment degasser? Or have you tasted it and felt the CO2 tingle?
If you are operatiing the drill too quickly ('not like im doing it slow by hand') then you will be whip the wine causing the foam and actually harming the wine by dragging air into it. Although this is usually minimal in a carboy, you said that you have been doing it for weeks.
The temp of the wine is more important than the temp of the room. Although if it's been in the room for weeks, it should be pretty close. Is it sitting on a cold floor?
Personally I do not think that round-and-round actions (drill or by hand) degas as effectively as a back-and-forth action.
Personally I end up using both. The drill (set failrly slowly) to mix additives, and the stirring spon to degas by going back-and-forth.
Steve


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## shanek17 (Jun 25, 2012)

cpfan said:


> Shane:
> 
> [*]Why do you think it isn't degassed yet? Because you're still getting foam from the drill/attachment degasser? Or have you tasted it and felt the CO2 tingle?
> [*]If you are operatiing the drill too quickly ('not like im doing it slow by hand') then you will be whip the wine causing the foam and actually harming the wine by dragging air into it. Although this is usually minimal in a carboy, you said that you have been doing it for weeks.
> ...



well today i shook up a bottle of pop to see the CO2. and i compared it with my wine and it looked identical to what im Seeing. basically there is a bunch of white little bubbles riseing up as soon as i stir it, it almost looks like foam and bubbles coming up. i Also moved the carboy from one room to another and i spun the carboy in circles a couple times and i was still seeing alot of these things riseing up. so it isnt just because of the drill whip. are all wine kits this bad? i think i tried tasteing it awhile ago but i will try again soon to see if i notice any fizziness. But i want to get another one but would like some feedback first. does it make a diference if its a expensive quality kit?


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## shanek17 (Jun 26, 2012)

cpfan said:


> Shane:
> 
> Why do you think it isn't degassed yet? Because you're still getting foam from the drill/attachment degasser? Or have you tasted it and felt the CO2 tingle?
> 
> Steve



here is a video of me shaking it up to test it . see those little things riseing up and then foam gathered at the top, thats what my wine is still doing, and thats what I seen when i shook up some warm soda pop. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dVanadLkyg&feature=plcp[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7LPpW_QR4A&feature=plcp[/ame]


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## TJsBasement (Jun 26, 2012)

I'm new but I think thats air, do you get a release of pressure if you do the same with your damp palm as the stopper then listen when you release it. And you could be shaking it way too hard. See what everyone says.


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## g8keeper (Jun 26, 2012)

shane, to me that just looks like foam caused by the agitation and not co2 still being released....ANY liquid that is whipped, shaken, stirred, or agitated enough, in any way, shape or form, will foam a bit....take a bottle of water for that matter, say your average national brand, in the states we'll say dasani, in a 20 oz. bottle....shake it up, you will see some foam form on the top....it is just air....now with a wine while degassing it, if it is still laden with co2, will foam almost UNCONTROLLABLY if agitated enough....it will double or triple in size and will take quite a while to actually dissipate....there really is a difference.....


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## shanek17 (Jun 27, 2012)

g8keeper said:


> shane, to me that just looks like foam caused by the agitation and not co2 still being released....ANY liquid that is whipped, shaken, stirred, or agitated enough, in any way, shape or form, will foam a bit....take a bottle of water for that matter, say your average national brand, in the states we'll say dasani, in a 20 oz. bottle....shake it up, you will see some foam form on the top....it is just air....now with a wine while degassing it, if it is still laden with co2, will foam almost UNCONTROLLABLY if agitated enough....it will double or triple in size and will take quite a while to actually dissipate....there really is a difference.....



yea i understand that agitating the wine can create foam. tonight i used my drill and whip tool and gave it a quick degassing. i only did it for maybe 20-30 seconds in short bursts, and created a good amount of foam. I wanted to see how long the foam lasted for. i did the degassing at 10pm and its now after 12pm and some foam is gone but theres still some foam. so if it hasnt dissipated yet does that indicate co2? 

Id like to put this in my basement and let it clear. but its pointless to do so if its not degassed. 


does anyone here do bulk ageing? i didnt want to do bulk aging for first batch but i may do it yet. how long does it take for a typical wine kit to naturally degas?


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