# Buying a new Vacuum system.



## jimmyjames23 (Mar 10, 2013)

I need recommendations on purchasing a new vacuum system. 
I need around 20" Hg or more my Orion's are a Gast rotary vane medical pump
Buhler Motor with Rietschle Thomas Pump

Must ship to Canada. Any ideas welcome. 
I will have to rig a one way valve air ball valve to keep the pressure where I want it and in some cases...a power supply.


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 10, 2013)

Options&bull; not Orion's.


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## Wade E (Mar 10, 2013)

I have never heard of any of that. Ever thought of a medical aspirator vacuum pump. Its what most of us use and they typically get up to 22" of vac and can be easily turned into a filter and bottling unit along with degassing and racking. You do not want to have contact with the wine with air or propeller blades as it beats up the wine and can oxidize it easily!


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 10, 2013)

That's why I want a non liquid transfer pump. The oxidization won't be an issue. My current vacuum has had it. One of the vanes is broken and it won't retain vacuum. I currently had a medical vacuum but was considering something a little cheaper. Plus, I don't think I need a 4+ hp motor to create such a small vacuum. Which is what I currently have. 
My current vac can pull 1 full bar. Which is more than enough to implode a glass carboy. 
I'm looking for something with a little ( by which I mean a lot) less power.


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## Chiumanfu (Mar 11, 2013)

Why not DIY. Follow the link in my sig. Same result and much less costly than a medical aspirator.


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

Chiumanfu said:


> Why not DIY. Follow the link in my sig. Same result and much less costly than a medical aspirator.



I was going to DIY it... But I didn't have a good lead on a cheap low voltage motor. 
Looks like I can get one from eBay for $8.00. 
Which beats the $300 I originally spent on my Gast years ago. Plus I can keep my regulators and pressure sensor and (hopefully) rig it to the new pump. 
If it doesn't draw the Hg I need then I'll just go on the hunt for a vane replacement and gasket and repair the old one.


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## Wade E (Mar 11, 2013)

$300! You can get brand new medical pumps for about $125 and Ive had mine for like 7 years now.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 11, 2013)

Have you ever considered the Allinone ?
I do deliver to Canada 
It comes with everything you need - you only need to supply 2 racking canes and 1 empty wine bottle


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

vacuumpumpman said:


> Have you ever considered the Allinone ?
> I do deliver to Canada
> It comes with everything you need - you only need to supply 2 racking canes and 1 empty wine bottle



I have but it's out of my price rang. Had you hit me up before I bought my mini jet I would have.


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

Wade E said:


> $300! You can get brand new medical pumps for about $125 and Ive had mine for like 7 years now.



It was $300 and included the regulator and gauges. I needed enough pull for 2 part solution degassing. Epoxy, carbon fiber, stuff like that. 

I only need the pump now. Though I will have to replace the vane at some point in the future. I don't think anything smaller could be used for small part reproduction.


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## winemaker_3352 (Mar 11, 2013)

If you are going to spend $300 for a pump - i would recommend spending the same amount of money on the allinone....


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm going to spend $8 for a pump. Plus shipping. 

I already spent $300 10 years ago. But it was for a commercial grade vacuum.


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## GreginND (Mar 11, 2013)

What kind of pump are you buying for $8?


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

GreginND said:


> What kind of pump are you buying for $8?



http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=111027900217


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## rst (Mar 11, 2013)

I think I have posted this before, but I purchased from the same seller on ebay. It will absolutely pull enough vacuum to transfer and degas. The only downside is the flow-rate is slow (a few liters per minute). Thus you need a valve to prevent the liquid from flowing into the receiving valve if you want any sort of vacuum during transfer. Otherwise you are transferring at ~4-8 inHg. It takes a couple of minutes to evacuate the receiving carboy too. 

Also, I was able to really improve the performance of the pump by opening it up and cleaning the diaphragm and valves. They are used and there was a few dirt particles that were inside. After a little water and a blast with compressed air it was like new.

For 8 bucks it is a great deal.


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

rst said:


> I think I have posted this before, but I purchased from the same seller on ebay. It will absolutely pull enough vacuum to transfer and degas. The only downside is the flow-rate is slow (a few liters per minute). Thus you need a valve to prevent the liquid from flowing into the receiving valve if you want any sort of vacuum during transfer. Otherwise you are transferring at ~4-8 inHg. It takes a couple of minutes to evacuate the receiving carboy too.
> 
> Also, I was able to really improve the performance of the pump by opening it up and cleaning the diaphragm and valves. They are used and there was a few dirt particles that were inside. After a little water and a blast with compressed air it was like new.
> 
> For 8 bucks it is a great deal.



Awesome. 
I will not be using it for liquid transfer. I have a 5/8" racking cane for that and a mini jet for going up from the floor to my secondary which is elevated for splash racking. 
I will definitely give it a good cleaning before I fit my regulator and stop valve. Hoping I can wire the 12 VDC to my regulator. I like to keep it under automatic vacuum for 5 days and hate to have to monitor the Hg manually.


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

rst said:


> I think I have posted this before, but I purchased from the same seller on ebay. It will absolutely pull enough vacuum to transfer and degas. The only downside is the flow-rate is slow (a few liters per minute). Thus you need a valve to prevent the liquid from flowing into the receiving valve if you want any sort of vacuum during transfer. Otherwise you are transferring at ~4-8 inHg. It takes a couple of minutes to evacuate the receiving carboy too.
> 
> Also, I was able to really improve the performance of the pump by opening it up and cleaning the diaphragm and valves. They are used and there was a few dirt particles that were inside. After a little water and a blast with compressed air it was like new.
> 
> For 8 bucks it is a great deal.



If you could have...would you have ordered 2 and placed them in series? I'd like to get 22"Hg if possible.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 11, 2013)

Take a look at the specs -it is a 24 vdc motor - you mentioned about hooking it up to your 12 volt converter ?
Putting 2 vacuum pumps inline will not increase vacuum - it may increase your LPM if you plumb it correctly - if they are not fighting each other


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## jimmyjames23 (Mar 11, 2013)

vacuumpumpman said:


> Take a look at the specs -it is a 24 vdc motor - you mentioned about hooking it up to your 12 volt converter ?
> Putting 2 vacuum pumps inline will not increase vacuum - it may increase your LPM if you plumb it correctly - if they are not fighting each other



My voltage converter goes from 1.5 to 24 VDC so that won't be an issue. 
I'll just order the one pump. Even at 12 volts it a hell of a lot more conservative than my existing 110 v motor. I'm guessing not as loud either.


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## rst (Mar 12, 2013)

Hey jimmy I just PM'd you about an extra pump I have.


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## Chiumanfu (Mar 14, 2013)

Interesting. I wonder how that little box converts pressure to vacuum.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 14, 2013)

Chiumanfu said:


> Interesting. I wonder how that little box converts pressure to vacuum.


 
It works off a venturi system using an air comressor to create a low pressure from the venturi - That means you have to have a large enough air compressor to run it and it is very noisy as well.
I am not sure is it adjustable or is all depending on your air compressor pressures ?
I do not see any type of valve to release the vacuum.


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## winedegasser (Mar 23, 2013)

One of the components of that “little box” is a Vacuum Ejector that is specially designed for wine degassing. 

Vacuum Ejectors were invented back in 1858, by a Frenchman, Henri Giffard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injector

they have been used mostly in big machines, such as continuous train braking systems. 

Winecuum Wine Degassers are specially designed to work with small portable air compressors to convert pressure into vacuum. 


Chiumanfu said:


> Interesting. I wonder how that little box converts pressure to vacuum.


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