# Invert sugar



## Vlabruz (Apr 6, 2022)

Does anyone do this for the backsweetening? Also, what ratio sugar to water. I was going to do 2:1. 
I've read that invert sugar will not make the wine sweeter over time so it can be more precisely backsweetened


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## Jim Welch (Apr 6, 2022)

I've not backsweetened any of my wines yet but have made invert sugar syrup many times for Belgian beers like Dubbels, Tripels, And Quads. I used a 2:1 sugar/water ratio to make it along with citric acid.


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## sour_grapes (Apr 6, 2022)

Yes, it is commonly done. It often goes by the name "simple syrup." @joeswine is a frequent (and longstanding) source of information on this:
when good wines gone bad

I believe you are correct that the wine's sweetness will not change over time when using inverted sugar. Normally, if you just add table sugar (i.e., sucrose), that disaccharide molecule will split over time into the monosaccharides glucose and fructose, each of which has a different apparent sweetness. But if you split the sucrose before you add it to the wine, it will NOT change with time.


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## Jim Welch (Apr 6, 2022)

Its been a while since I read up on making it for making Belgian beers but IIRC adding just a little bit of acid and gently heating it inverts the sucrose somewhat quickly. Invert sugar is used in many high gravity beers because yeast have an easier time metabolizing it, or so I've read. Let me see if I can find a link for you to read up on this @Vlabruz 
But again my experience with invert sugar is beer brewing not backsweetening wine.
I am under the impression that simple syrup is simply sugar dissolved in water but not inverted.


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## Jim Welch (Apr 6, 2022)

Here is a link








Quick & Simple Invert Sugar


A blog about home brewing, yeast farming, wild and sour brewing, and craft beers.




suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.com


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## ChuckD (Apr 7, 2022)

I invert the sugar before adding it to fruit wines and I use it for back sweetening.


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## Vlabruz (Apr 7, 2022)

ChuckD said:


> I invert the sugar before adding it to fruit wines and I use it for back sweetening.


What ratio do you use for making it?


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## ChuckD (Apr 7, 2022)

My Typical SS for back sweetening is 2:1 sugar to water. For fruit wine recipes I go with whatever volume of syrup and water is called for in the recipe. I hold back a little on the water when I convert the sugar so I can make up the volume and adjust the SG.


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## Vlabruz (Apr 7, 2022)

So I'm making it now. Everything thing i read says to get to 236f . Some articles say 20 minutes. 
I'm going on 35 minutes now and am at 222f.


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## mainshipfred (Apr 7, 2022)

I don't worry about the temperature, just heat and stir it until it becomes clear. You'll know when it clears, it happens suddenly and is obvious.


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## Vlabruz (Apr 7, 2022)

mainshipfred said:


> I don't worry about the temperature, just heat and stir it until it becomes clear. You'll know when it clears, it happens suddenly and is obvious.


But isn't that just dissolving sugar? Invert sugar I thought was a chemical reaction, separating the bond between glucose and fructose.


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## mainshipfred (Apr 7, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> But isn't that just dissolving sugar? Invert sugar I thought was a chemical reaction, separating the bond between glucose and fructose.



When the sugar is first dissolved the solution is cloudy. It takes some time after it is dissolved to become clear. Perhaps that is when the chemical reaction completes.


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## Vlabruz (Apr 7, 2022)

All ready for my skeeter pee racking tomorrow. @Jovimaple , if you remember, I mentioned followed the recipe and added .5 tsp of kmeta the first time.
With out the means to measure so2, should I add more at this racking or there should be plenty in there still? It was added on 3/12.


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## cmason1957 (Apr 7, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> All ready for my skeeter pee racking tomorrow. @Jovimaple , if you remember, I mentioned followed the recipe and added .5 tsp of kmeta the first time.
> With out the means to measure so2, should I add more at this racking or there should be plenty in there still? It was added on 3/12.



Since you added a double dose of KMeta less than a month ago, I wouldn't add more at this racking.


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## ChuckD (Apr 7, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> But isn't that just dissolving sugar? Invert sugar I thought was a chemical reaction, separating the bond between glucose and fructose.


The sources I have seen don’t stress about the exact temperature. Just watch it closely and if it starts to simmer back off a little. You don’t want it to boil. I heat it for 20 minutes or so.


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## barryjo (Apr 7, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> So I'm making it now. Everything thing i read says to get to 236f . Some articles say 20 minutes.
> I'm going on 35 minutes now and am at 222f.


This almost sounds like recipe for making hard candy. Do not allow it to do anything more than a slight simmer. Temperature is irrelevant. I use 4 cups water and 4 pounds sugar, plus an ounce or two of lemon juice. Stirring very frequently. Higher temps will start to caramelize the sugar, turning it a straw color. This could be a problem for whites.


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## Vlabruz (Apr 7, 2022)

barryjo said:


> This almost sounds like recipe for making hard candy. Do not allow it to do anything more than a slight simmer. Temperature is irrelevant. I use 4 cups water and 4 pounds sugar, plus an ounce or two of lemon juice. Stirring very frequently. Higher temps will start to caramelize the sugar, turning it a straw color. This could be a problem for whites.


Yes, mine did. Its going in skeeter pee so it should be fine


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## Jim Welch (Apr 7, 2022)

There is simple syrup and then there is invert sugar. They are similar in that they are both sugar dissolved in water but they are not the same. As far as the initial cloudiness that is what happens before the sugar goes fully into solution in the water, the same thing happens with salt in water. For the record I'm not stating one needs invert sugar for back sweetening wine but that is what the OP posted.

It does take on color but perhaps, and just saying perhaps, at the dilution rate that one would use it in a white to back sweeten it may not change the color perceptibly. @Vlabruz maybe if you have say a bottle of dry white wine you could try a bench trial with what you made and see how much color it lends at the sweeteness you're looking for before using it on your SP.


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## Jovimaple (Apr 7, 2022)

cmason1957 said:


> Since you added a double dose of KMeta less than a month ago, I wouldn't add more at this racking.


@Vlabruz - I agree. Kmeta gets used up but not that quickly.


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## Jim Welch (Apr 7, 2022)

@Vlabruz dummy me, I just noticed this is in the Skeeter Pee sub forum. Initially thought you were going to use this in a wine!


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## Vlabruz (Apr 7, 2022)

Jim Welch said:


> There is simple syrup and then there is invert sugar. They are similar in that they are both sugar dissolved in water but they are not the same. As far as the initial cloudiness that is what happens before the sugar goes fully into solution in the water, the same thing happens with salt in water. For the record I'm not stating one needs invert sugar for back sweetening wine but that is what the OP posted.
> 
> It does take on color but perhaps, and just saying perhaps, at the dilution rate that one would use it in a white to back sweeten it may not change the color perceptibly. @Vlabruz maybe if you have say a bottle of dry white wine you could try a bench trial with what you made and see how much color it lends at the sweeteness you're looking for before using it on your SP.


The sp is a similar color in the carboy. The recipe calls for 6 cups to backsweeten. I feel that will probably be too sweet. I made 5 cups and will probably start with half of my sugar and taste it.


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