# first batch noob question



## Black-opal (Apr 30, 2015)

all is going well, when do I move it from primary to secondary? SG is at 1.035. directions just said "wait a couple of days" after reaching 1.050


----------



## vernsgal (Apr 30, 2015)

I usually let mine go dry before racking (.998 or lower) others rack between 1.030-1.020 and then let it finish in secondary. I don't know if you're doing a kit or fruit wine but if you decide to let finish in primary I would remove any fruit /grapeskins if you haven't already done so


----------



## Black-opal (Apr 30, 2015)

not making from a kit, just making Skeeter Pee with Newmans Own Limeade as the base instead of the ReaLemon


----------



## sour_grapes (May 1, 2015)

Black-opal said:


> all is going well, when do I move it from primary to secondary? SG is at 1.035. directions just said "wait a couple of days" after reaching 1.050



I'd recommend that you rack to secondary after the SB reaches 1.010.


----------



## Black-opal (May 1, 2015)

Thank you Sour Grapes. hopefully we reach there on Saturday


----------



## BernardSmith (May 1, 2015)

One of the risks of racking too soon is that you in fact rack off the active yeast and so you have too few yeast cells in the secondary fermenter to continue the fermentation and that can stall the process... Since the yeast in the primary is producing CO2 and since that CO2 is blanketing the surface of the wine in my opinion there is really no great concern to rack until the gravity drops close to 1.000. I completely agree with Paul's (Sourgrapes') suggestion that you can wait until the gravity drops to 1.010. Personally, I often allow the gravity to drop to 1.005. The yeast is still (or should be) actively burping out CO2...


----------



## Black-opal (May 1, 2015)

Thank you for the science behind it. just trying to follow the directions but there are some holes in the explanation when you've never fermented anything before... on purpose, for drinking anyway. 

yeasties are still actively burping, farting and doin' their thing. giving them a good stir every day. 

so why pull it into a secondary instead of fermenting all in the primary?


----------



## gaboy (May 1, 2015)

Some of us ferment till DRY in the primary, don't rack into 2ndry until fermentation complete. I've never noticed a difference in fruit wines.


----------



## BernardSmith (May 1, 2015)

Black-opal said:


> so why pull it into a secondary instead of fermenting all in the primary?



Great question, Black-opal. Others on this forum may have different answers but for what it is worth, here's mine: Typically, many of us will use a bucket with a loosely fitting lid (could be a towel) as our primary. Even those who use a carboy likely use one that has lots of head-room to allow for the foam and froth that the yeast produces. This head-room or space above the surface of the fermenting wine enables the wine maker to stir the wine several times a day to introduce and incorporate oxygen into the wine (the yeast need oxygen) and this stirring allows some of the CO2 to be removed (the CO2 in the liquid inhibits fermentation) and if there is fruit in the liquid stirring ensures that the fruit is kept constantly wet thus preventing other kinds of spoilage. So, the primary has head-room. 
After active fermentation has ceased (or greatly quietened down) the wine (not so much the yeast but the wine) does not benefit from oxygen and in fact air is detrimental to the flavor and color of the wine, so the idea is that you want to store this wine in a container that for all intents and purposes has no space between the surface of the wine and the bottom of the bung. Easiest way to ensure that is to transfer the wine into a carboy which you fill to the tippy top (perhaps an inch or less of space below the bung). What you are also doing is removing the wine (or "racking" it) from the lees. Those lees contain particles of fruit and dead yeast cells. The dead yeast will over time "autolyse" (break up) and release chemicals some of which will add to the complexity of the flavor and some of which may result in undesirable flavors. So, typically, most wine makers will rack their wines every 60 or 90 days to remove the wines from significant (say a quarter inch or so) of sediment. When they rack they may add the equivalent of a Campden tablet (K-meta) which adds enough free sulfur dioxide to inhibit oxidation. (some add this every time they rack. Others every second time). But every time they rack they make sure that they fill the carboy to the very top. That may mean adding more wine or it may mean adding sanitized marbles or using a smaller carboy or some other approach. (for example, if I make X gallons of a fruit wine I will deliberately start with an extra pint or two and store this extra in a mason jar or in wine bottles in my fridge and when I need to top up the liquid after racking I use that wine - or sometimes I crack open a bottle of a similar wine I have made earlier and use that to top up the carboy).


----------



## Black-opal (May 1, 2015)

Thank you for your knowledgeable reply. 
When I'm aerating I notice a lot of C02 coming out of suspension. there's a little but of pulp in the mix but nothing as chunky as whole berries. 

right now working out of a beginners kit which is Primary bucket, secondary bucket with spigot and some other equipment (hydrometers are fun) but don't have a carboy yet. later investment to see if I was going to enjoy the hobby first. 

thank you for your inputs, there is a bit assumed in the skeeter pee recipe that leaves me a but slackjawed and hunting for answers. 
was hoping maybe I can get it done as quick as the Dragons Blood recipe but don't know if that's possible.


----------



## Bobwhite (May 2, 2015)

I can make a batch of pee in 21 days every time 

1 week to ferment (then degass,sparkaloid and stabilize) 

1 week to clear (add sugar) 

Bottle a week later


----------



## Black-opal (May 2, 2015)

thank you. sorry if i've been annoying with the questions!


----------



## Arne (May 5, 2015)

Black-opal said:


> thank you. sorry if i've been annoying with the questions!



The only bad questions are the ones you don't ask. And I am pretty certain there are others out there with the same questions and they have been answered for them when yours are answered. You have any questions or problems, keep them coming, someone will probably jump in and try and help you. Arne.


----------



## Black-opal (May 5, 2015)

thank you. finally got over the hurdle of 1.020, was there for two days with the outer bucket thermometer at 76-78* we're now sitting at 1.010 maybe slightly lower. trying not to be impatient with it but hubby blabbed and now people want to drink it. such is life!


----------



## Bobwhite (May 6, 2015)

Once they try the pee they will b hooked I can hardly make it fast enough lol but me and my friends like to drink


----------



## Black-opal (May 6, 2015)

We aren't big drinkers. Im hoping to like this as I love lemonade


----------



## Black-opal (May 10, 2015)

racked, stabilized and sparkolloidified. Airlock is pushed to one side but no bloops unless I press on the domed lid of the bucket. Definately want a carboy or two now, I want to see the magic happen.


----------



## Black-opal (May 11, 2015)

ok ok... last question.. mostly

will I be able to see to the bottom of the secondary bucket when we hit clear? I took a peek at it and with a flashlight can see through it but see floaties in it as well (mostly looks like pulp) will give it the rest of the week to clear.


----------



## Bobwhite (May 12, 2015)

Give it one week and it should b clear then rack off lees and sweeten then give another week and it should b crystal clear 

U use glass but even in the bucket you should b able to shine a flash light beem and see to the bottom with out the floaties


----------



## Bobwhite (May 12, 2015)

Did u degass when u racked ?? 

U may b seeing C02 in it


----------



## tbohling (May 12, 2015)

Maybe I shouldnt piggy back on this post, but I too am on my first batch of pee. I notice hundreds of post about degassing, but am having trouble finding a timeline. 
Im in carboyafter 1 week of primary fermenting and started at 1.01 now down to .996 or so. Been there for 4 days and airlock is every 4 minutes so were all but done fermenting. 
Can I go ahead degas kmeta sorbate and spark without reracking? In that order or degas at the end? How long to wait until sweetening?

I'm finding varrying answers throughout these threads...so I'm very sorry if this seems repetitive!
Maybe I'm thinking too hard?


----------



## Bobwhite (May 12, 2015)

Rack first so you don't sturr up the lees 

Then stabilize and sparkaloid and degass heavily


----------



## wineforfun (May 12, 2015)

tbohling said:


> Maybe I shouldnt piggy back on this post, but I too am on my first batch of pee. I notice hundreds of post about degassing, but am having trouble finding a timeline.
> Im in carboyafter 1 week of primary fermenting and started at 1.01 now down to .996 or so. Been there for 4 days and airlock is every 4 minutes so were all but done fermenting.
> Can I go ahead degas kmeta sorbate and spark without reracking? In that order or degas at the end? How long to wait until sweetening?
> 
> ...



Kmeta and Sparklloid first. It is always best to get your wine clear before adding sorbate so there aren't any rogue yeasties floating around. After adding sorbate, you can backsweeten.


----------



## Black-opal (May 12, 2015)

we degassed it what I felt was adequate. ran drill for a second or so, stop, reverse, on and off for about 10 mins until no new bubbles were coming out of solution. 


tbohling: if she's all done rack it off the lees at the bottom into another container, Kmeta/sorbate it and degass then added sparklloid is how I did it. 


Took a taste, tastes watered down, may have added too much water in the initial steps. still has yeasty aftertaste. top is clear but not all the way yet.


----------



## tbohling (May 13, 2015)

Uh oh....
So I have a food saver. Thought I'd give it a shot. 

Somehow I'm pulling what looks to be "solid sparkaloid" off the bottom and to the top of the carboy. Getting a few bubbles, but I'm a bit concerned of how much "junk" I'm making float. I racked off the lees once already because I did start with a Rhubarb wine slurry...Put sparkaloid in 20 hours ago just a few minutes after the kmeta.


----------



## Black-opal (May 13, 2015)

uh oh. from my understanding sparkloid is pretty easy to get back into the mix. sounds like you're going to either filter it out or let it make lees again and clear out.


----------



## Bobwhite (May 17, 2015)

Let it sit and clear then rack again and degass if needed 

I let mine sit for a full week after the sparkaloid then rack off all the lees


----------

