# Fresh Chilean juice just arrived, on a U-Haul and banged up...



## TemperanceOwl (Jun 24, 2018)

I ordered 6 lugs of Chilean Carmenere, crushed, destemmed and frozen into two pails, and one 6 gallon pail of frozen Chilean Cab/Merlot juice blend from a supplier in Ohio. The plan was to ferment the grapes to 1.000 SG or so, rack the Carmenere wine off into glass, and then put the Cab/Merlot juice over the skins and seeds and start its fermentation to give it some complexity and body.

The 3 pails arrived Friday, in rough shape. They had been shipped inside plastic bags in cardboard boxes, but only one box was still with them, and it was torn and appeared to have road rash. The two grape buckets were in good shape, and I went ahead and got them started Friday night... they were already thawed out, and it only took a couple of hours for them to come up to 65F.

The juice bucket, though was bashed in and is in the shape of Toblerone candy (triangular). The lid is still on and it doesn't appear to have leaked, but has obviously been through something. I haven't opened it to check the temperature, but it was completely melted when it arrived... come to think of it, it wasn't even noticeably cold to the touch.

My guess is that the FedEx truck was in a wreck and my stuff was tossed around, and maybe even skidded down the highway causing the damage, and that's why it arrived on a U-Haul and in such bad shape.

Would you use it or be afraid of it? 

There's no way I can open the lid to check the conditions inside without spilling a lot of it, so I went ahead yesterday and filed a claim with FedEx, but then learned that only the sender can settle the claim. So I contacted the merchant and gave him the claim number, and asked him to only bill me for the 2 grape pails and their shipping, and for him to collect the rest from FedEx.

He responded by suggesting that I open the 2" cap in the lid and siphon it into another bucket and go ahead and use it, but I'm just not sure how I feel about that idea, not knowing what the juice has been through.

What do you think? Insist on FedEx making it good, or go ahead and use it later this week when the Carmenere comes off the skins like I'd planned? Thanks!!


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## TemperanceOwl (Jun 24, 2018)

Oh, the juice has been in the fridge since it arrived, probably 35-40 F.


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## Johnd (Jun 24, 2018)

Go ahead and give it a shot, if it wasn’t busted open and didn’t leak, it should be fine. As much as that side is pushed in, sure seems like something should’ve squirted out of there........


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## jburtner (Jun 24, 2018)

I’d go ahead and open the case with fed ex and look to not pay for it. There was obvious significant mishandling. That being said I’d also use it as planned if viable. 

-jb


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## TemperanceOwl (Jun 24, 2018)

Thanks, Johnd and Jburtner. Your two answers are exactly the ones I've been waffling between!


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## Jal5 (Jun 24, 2018)

As misshaped as that pail is now I cannot believe that quite a bit hasn't leaked out. I would try the claim with fed ex since it was certainly mishandled and still try to use the juice.


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## CK55 (Jun 24, 2018)

Holy crap that is hard to do to a bucket. I wouldnt doubt it was in a crash lol.


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## JamesGrape (Jun 24, 2018)

Those pics are shocking - you will surely be successful with your claim.


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## stickman (Jun 25, 2018)

When you freeze the juice in a sealed pail, the ice expansion can force air out of the pail, then as the juice thaws, the contraction back to the original volume sometimes causes the pail to collapse. That's a sign of a good seal, as air could not get back into the pail. As long as nothing leaked out it should be ok. I assume that's 5 gallons of juice in a 6 gallon pail.


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## pillswoj (Jun 25, 2018)

Stickman has the correct answer, there is no amount of mishandling that would do that to a pail without it bursting open.


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## joemercurio (Jun 26, 2018)

TemperanceOwl said:


> Oh, the juice has been in the fridge since it arrived, probably 35-40 F.


Call me at 614-237-3333
Joe Mercurio


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## Zintrigue (Jun 28, 2018)

stickman said:


> When you freeze the juice in a sealed pail, the ice expansion can force air out of the pail, then as the juice thaws, the contraction back to the original volume sometimes causes the pail to collapse. That's a sign of a good seal, as air could not get back into the pail. As long as nothing leaked out it should be ok. I assume that's 5 gallons of juice in a 6 gallon pail.


This. It just looks like it got warm and went up and down in elevation, to me. I live on a mountain side, my water bottles all do this just going to the grocery store on cold mornings. I'm no scientist but I can't see why a pail wouldn't suffer the same fate when subjected to more extreme temps/elevations. Can you just toss some kmeta in it and wait a day to rule out the chance of spoilage? Either case, good luck to you, sounds like you had a great plan.


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## TemperanceOwl (Jun 28, 2018)

Thanks, everyone. The freeze/thaw explanation might be it... but the one surviving cardboard shipping box had obvious road rash.  The other three boxes didn't make it. 
But, whatever the cause, I have started it and it smells good and is going gang-busters. I hope it turns out well.


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## jburtner (Jun 29, 2018)

Yeah this is a strange tale. And it arrived in a uhaul? Cardboard boxes missing? Wine ok. Just bizarre...

Your fedex delivery driver was like the maytag repair man sorta. Certainly on a mission and you now have your juice and must. 

There’s gotta be a cool name in there for this batch. Road Rash Red? Maybe something more inviting 

Just think of these grapes journey that started in chile. I am amazed  where will they end up across the globe in the coming years? 

Destined for grape things. 

Will be following the rest of their journey through ferment aging and into bottles sent far and wide and eventually globes of glass swirled swished and swallowed 

Cheers!
-johann


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## TemperanceOwl (Jun 30, 2018)

jburtner said:


> Yeah this is a strange tale. And it arrived in a uhaul? Cardboard boxes missing? Wine ok. Just bizarre...
> 
> Your fedex delivery driver was like the maytag repair man sorta. Certainly on a mission and you now have your juice and must.
> 
> ...



Johann, I love your name "Road Rash Red"! That's great. I can see a cartoon image of a big burly red haired Harley looking guy on my label, with a few scrapes and bruises. 

That is pretty cool to think of their journey. And they're finally here in my kitchen.

Got the Carmenere lightly pressed and transferred into a carboy yesterday, and the skins over into the juice. I just noticed this morning that there are quite a few un-crushed grapes in there. I wonder if I should squish them with a potato masher to get the rest of the goody out of them, or if that would promote bitterness at this point. 

I co-fermented the grape batch with EC1118/RC212, and MLF bacteria CH16. 
I started the juice batch Wednesday with EC1118/RC212, and intend for the MLF population in the skins to go to work in the juice. Unfortunately, the refractometer I'd borrowed from a friend lied to me and I thought the grapes were stuck at 1.030, but I tested with the hydrometer after transferring yesterday and it was already at 1.002. There is no airlock activity at all today. I hope it won't suffer from so much air exposure yesterday and with no KMeta (due to the MLF).

Nell


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## TemperanceOwl (Sep 1, 2018)

My Chilean Carmenere has been under airlock and undergoing MLF for 2 full months now. I just tasted it and it is still VERY fizzy, and tart, with a sort of stem and seed flavor.  I've seen other folks say MLF should take 4-6 weeks (6 gallons). I don't have testing equipment for MLF, and the lady at PIWine told me when I bought the culture to just taste it after a month or so and if I love it, go ahead and rack and sulfite. After 2 months, I still don't love it. Not sure what's going on. 
Do y'all have any ideas? Since it's so fizzy could it still be undergoing MLF after 2 months? Should I go ahead and rack and sulfite just to protect it and hope aging helps? This is my first all grape experiment and so far I'm not very happy with how it's turning out.


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## CK55 (Sep 1, 2018)

TemperanceOwl said:


> My Chilean Carmenere has been under airlock and undergoing MLF for 2 full months now. I just tasted it and it is still VERY fizzy, and tart, with a sort of stem and seed flavor.  I've seen other folks say MLF should take 4-6 weeks (6 gallons). I don't have testing equipment for MLF, and the lady at PIWine told me when I bought the culture to just taste it after a month or so and if I love it, go ahead and rack and sulfite. After 2 months, I still don't love it. Not sure what's going on.
> Do y'all have any ideas? Since it's so fizzy could it still be undergoing MLF after 2 months? Should I go ahead and rack and sulfite just to protect it and hope aging helps? This is my first all grape experiment and so far I'm not very happy with how it's turning out.


Wine doesn't normally taste good untill it's had some aging time. It can go from awful to amazing.


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## TemperanceOwl (Sep 1, 2018)

CK55 said:


> Wine doesn't normally taste good untill it's had some aging time. It can go from awful to amazing.


Well, that's true. I've just never had a wine kit taste this rough at this point. Maybe I just don't know what to expect with fresh grapes.


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## CK55 (Sep 1, 2018)

TemperanceOwl said:


> Well, that's true. I've just never had a wine kit taste this rough at this point. Maybe I just don't know what to expect with fresh grapes.


Give it some time see if it improves!


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## pgentile (Sep 2, 2018)

TemperanceOwl said:


> My Chilean Carmenere has been under airlock and undergoing MLF for 2 full months now. I just tasted it and it is still VERY fizzy, and tart, with a sort of stem and seed flavor.  I've seen other folks say MLF should take 4-6 weeks (6 gallons). I don't have testing equipment for MLF, and the lady at PIWine told me when I bought the culture to just taste it after a month or so and if I love it, go ahead and rack and sulfite. After 2 months, I still don't love it. Not sure what's going on.
> Do y'all have any ideas? Since it's so fizzy could it still be undergoing MLF after 2 months? Should I go ahead and rack and sulfite just to protect it and hope aging helps? This is my first all grape experiment and so far I'm not very happy with how it's turning out.



It's probably still going through MLF and it hasn't had time to degass from AF. Like CK55 said, give it some more time. Check in another 30 days.


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## Jal5 (Sep 2, 2018)

My chilean sangiovese cleared up nicely and doesn’t taste bad for a young wine. Give it time. 

Patience!
Joe


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## Ajmassa (Sep 2, 2018)

Your right, grape wines have a much different maturation timeline then kits. Lots more going on in grape wines. I’m not able to tell the difference MLF makes w/o a direct side by side comparison. I just trust the process. 
My spring Chilean is at the same exact point as yours. You used pretty strong yeast and Malo bacteria. Not sure when malo was added to frozen must- but I know the juice pail likely finished quickly. Id bet they are all finished tho. No way to know for sure without testing. 
Can’t go by taste because it’s hard to decipher what’s what right now. At least for me. But if you were to rack it off the sediment, introducing some O2 in the process that will blow off some of the roughness. Add so2 and put to bed. After 3 months you’ll see what the fuss is about for grape wines. And everything will start falling into place.


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## TemperanceOwl (Sep 3, 2018)

pgentile said:


> It's probably still going through MLF and it hasn't had time to degass from AF. Like CK55 said, give it some more time. Check in another 30 days.


Thanks for the response, pgentile. I'll give it more time.


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## TemperanceOwl (Sep 3, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Your right, grape wines have a much different maturation timeline then kits. Lots more going on in grape wines. I’m not able to tell the difference MLF makes w/o a direct side by side comparison. I just trust the process.
> My spring Chilean is at the same exact point as yours. You used pretty strong yeast and Malo bacteria. Not sure when malo was added to frozen must- but I know the juice pail likely finished quickly. Id bet they are all finished tho. No way to know for sure without testing.
> Can’t go by taste because it’s hard to decipher what’s what right now. At least for me. But if you were to rack it off the sediment, introducing some O2 in the process that will blow off some of the roughness. Add so2 and put to bed. After 3 months you’ll see what the fuss is about for grape wines. And everything will start falling into place.



I really hope that in a few months I start to see what the fuss is about for grape wines! I've had lots of positive feedback from the high end kits I've done, and hope that the extra work for fresh grapes turns out at least as good.


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