# building a supply



## olusteebus (Jul 8, 2014)

Has anyone here built up an inventory at one time of kits. Some day aI may do that and it seems to best do this by getting some cheap kits (70- 75 bucks) for early drinkiers, some moderate kits (100 bucks) aged about 9 months to a year, and finally some more expensive kits 125 to 170) for ageing a year to three years. 

I have a small inventory now but I would like to build one up. 

What have you folks done?


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## bkisel (Jul 8, 2014)

I can see that strategy working but it was not how I've built my stash over the course of the last 1 1/2 years since starting this hobby. Seems like you'd need to get more carboys than you'd eventually need to hold steady state.


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## cimbaliw (Jul 8, 2014)

Over the past 1-1/2 years I have built a nice stash of about 500 bottles, Probably about 2/3 - 3/4 of the inventory is from kits the rest is Skeeter Pee, Dragon's Blood and Apfelwein. We drink 1 bottle/ night. Basically I've made 2 batches/ month, sometimes more to get here. I have a nice mix of different price range kits, IMO the expensive ones are definitely worth the money. No specific planning just making what strikes me at the time. 

My system has evolved into making two batches simultaneously of reasonable similar wine i.e Chardonnay and Viognier or Merlot and shiraz. It's just easier. Sometimes I'll rack two 6 gallon batches to a 5 gal and a six gal carboy depending on topping up. 

Don't think too much about it, just make twice as much as you drink until you reach goal then you can back off to maintain a steady state and not out strip your storage capacity.

Hope this helps.
BC


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## pjd (Jul 8, 2014)

I also have ramped up production to outpace our consumption. I now have nearly 4000 bottles in the cellar and it is very enjoyable to go to the cellar, select a 3 year old wine that you haven't tried yet and have your wife complement you on how good that particular wine is. The downer is when she asks did you buy that one at Walmart?


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## sour_grapes (Jul 8, 2014)

pjd said:


> I also have ramped up production to outpace our consumption. I now have nearly 4000 bottles in the cellar and it is very enjoyable to go to the cellar, select a 3 year old wine that you haven't tried yet and have your wife complement you on how good that particular wine is. The downer is when she asks did you buy that one at Walmart?



4000? I salute you, sir!  I was proud of getting to nearly 400!


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## Runningwolf (Jul 8, 2014)

I have recently slowed production over the past year or so. Having over 1500 bottles in the cellar along with close to 40 carboys of wine in different stages I decided I reassess my inventory. The majority of the wines were early drinkers (1-3 years) from kits and fresh juice. In an effort to reduce this inventory I started making mostly all big reds and ports while drinking and gifting the current stock. I am ramping up production again using CA, Italian and local juice along with fresh fruit. My goal is to maintain 1299-1500 bottles with 60% or more with wines that will age 4-10 years or longer. I do very little or no kits or novelty wines anymore but I am considering making another jalapeno wine.


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## cimbaliw (Jul 8, 2014)

"I now have nearly 4000 bottles in the cellar"

I am not worthy! Do you have any pictures of your cellar?


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## pjd (Jul 8, 2014)

cimbaliw said:


> "I now have nearly 4000 bottles in the cellar"
> 
> I am not worthy! Do you have any pictures of your cellar?



Its too crowded, the camera cannot focus!


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## Runningwolf (Jul 8, 2014)

pjd said:


> Its too crowded, the camera cannot focus!



That's funny but true. My Wine Cellar is only 6x12 but I can very neatly showcase over 1000 bottles but I haven't been able to get a great picture of it. I need someone with a very wide angle lens. I also have three Sam's Club racks for the over flow outside of the cellar that holds 268 bottles each.


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## ffemt128 (Jul 9, 2014)

My current inventory is about 400+ bottles. I have another 36 gallons ready for immediate bottling and about 30 gallons that need stabilized and back sweetened. I haven't done a kit in a long time. My cellar goes anywhere from several 2009 bottles to bottled a month ago but a year old.


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## FTC Wines (Jul 9, 2014)

My current inventory is 652 on the "cellar" wall @ 68* 84 in wine chillers, & 13 carboys in production! Running out of store age room. Just made 10 gals of Ga Peach Wine yesterday, not included in #. Wines are from 1 month bottled to 4 yrs bottled. SP & other early drinkers have allowed the inventory to build. Roy


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## GaDawg (Jul 9, 2014)

I like your strategy, but I think you also need to factor in the time of year. For example, if I want watermelon / merlot (just bottled) I should have started in January. 
I also think, for me in the sunny south, white wine does better in winter. Colder temp for fermentation. 


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


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## richmke (Jul 9, 2014)

Start with a cheap kit, like Island Mist. they area ready soon, and if you mess up, no big deal. I tailor mine by adding to the Primary: 1-3 pounds of sugar to boost the alcohol, and 1/2 to 2/3 of the f-pack to significantly reduce the sweetness. The rest of the f-pack I add at the normal time to back sweeten.

2nd & 3rd kits would be the early drinker red and white.

After that, I just do top of the line kits, and the occasional IM for a summer wine.


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## FTC Wines (Jul 9, 2014)

GaDog, I used to live outside Blue Ridge Ga. Sure miss the cool basement temps. But here in SW Fl my winery room is 68* year round! winery closet is 71* & house is 77* most of the year. So I can ferment in any of those temps which really helps & eliminates yearly cycles for me. Just picked up a bushel of Ga Peaches Mon on our way home, adding yeast tonight, smells wonderful already! Roy. Ps watermelon/Merlot sounds very interesting. Watermelon Wine is the only wine I ever thru out! Think it spoiled from too high a fermentation temp.


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## JohnT (Jul 9, 2014)

Man, What a great thread! 

Soapbox is now at my feet... 

My inventory WAS about 2,500 bottles. I say WAS for a reason.. 

I learned the hard way that building inventory is wonderful, but only up to a point. Many wines can only last just so long. Corks, too can only last so long. 

I had a special occasion recently and opened a bottle of my 1993 cabernet. This was a wine that (at the time) was truly worthy of aging. The color was beautiful, the clarity was good, but the flavor had sadly faded. The wine was like colored water. I opened three other bottles and they were all the same. The wine was simply not worth drinking anymore.

When I think of how wonderful the wine was, and that I could have enjoyed it at the time, I began to question my whole approach to inventory. 

I took a weekend and tasted through all of my wines that were older than 10 years. Two were still in excellent condition, but many were either fading or completely faded. I ended (about 2 months ago) having an "old vintage" party with about 20 good friends. With 2 exceptions (1998 merlot and 1999 san gio), all wines tagged as over 10 years is up for grabs (for drinking first, then for taking home). The only rule was this.. At some point, clean and return the bottles to me. 

So I basically had a good time liquidating my old stock. On some of the bins, I tagged "Please leave me 12" for the wines that were still very drinkable. Over all, I managed to lighten my inventory by some 700 bottles. We drank about 40, dumped about 100, and folks took home the rest.

Sorry (again) for the long story. This all went down very recently and I felt that it would be good to share. 

So in summary.. 

- Seeing old wines go past their prime is much like a father's lament over not spending enough time with his kids... "Oh, the good times we should have had (but never did)". 

- Aging wine is all well and good, but there is an optimal age for any wine. Try not to hang on to too much for too long.

- Never age an inferior wine. You will only be taking up space as there will ALWAYS be something better to drink. I held on to 6 cases of 1998 white burgundy (YUK!) and NEVER opened a single bottle. It is nice to have that space for better things.


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## bkisel (Jul 9, 2014)

Wow! I'm amazed at the depth and breadth to which many pursue this home wine making hobby. I was thinking that for me more than say 200-300 bottles of maybe 5-6 varieties of wine would put me over the top.


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## FTC Wines (Jul 9, 2014)

JohnT that's an amazing# of bottles. I'm hoping for a 3 yr supply, that's 1200+ bottles for us. That way I'll drink all my 3 yr old fruit wines and my 5 yr old Reds. Now the only wine that I'm aging really long term is a Amarone, almost 4 yrs old. Have some bold Cabs & Red blends in carboys for a year that I'll bottle & put 1/2 in long term cellaring. Still have a bunch of Peach & Apple that's 3 yrs old, thinking we need to get busy on that. Roy


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## richmke (Jul 9, 2014)

bkisel said:


> I was thinking that for me more than say 200-300 bottles of maybe 5-6 varieties of wine would put me over the top.



It all depends upon your consumption and turnover.

Let's say that you drink and gift an average of 2 bottles per week. That is 100 bottles per year. If the average age of the wine you consume is 3 years, then that is 300 bottles worth of wine (some will still be in carboys) that you need to maintain.

If you drink/gift an average of a bottle a day, and have an average age of 5 years, then you are looking at over 1,500 bottles worth.


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## olusteebus (Jul 9, 2014)

I have probably 250 to 300 bottled now. Some SP, a strawberry that I cannot stand (need to try it again) and a few other not too good wines. What I need to do is start making one or two kits a month and build up the stuff I really like to drink - Reds, chardonnays, other whites - and get to the point where I rarely buy wine and can easily age wine a year ormore. I think that is what I will start when I get back to my winery.

Thanks to all for the good info


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## sour_grapes (Jul 9, 2014)

I have worked the math on this out in detail (under a set of reasonable assumptions). Let me know if you want me to share it.


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## tanddc (Jul 9, 2014)

sour_grapes said:


> I have worked the math on this out in detail (under a set of reasonable assumptions). Let me know if you want me to share it.



I am curious to see what you come up with.

I have tried to do the same thing as the OP in that I am starting with 5 - 10 liter kits and then I am planning on 4 longer kits and then finishing with a 10 liter kit all by the end of the year. We drink 3 to 4 bottles a week and I plan on supplementing with an occasional purchase.


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## olusteebus (Jul 9, 2014)

I would like to see what you have. Probably will give me something to shoot for.


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## sour_grapes (Jul 9, 2014)

Ahh, here it is, from an earlier post:



sour_grapes said:


> I have just been working out the math of how many bottles one needs to have on hand to meet one's ongoing needs. (I was trying to figure out how many wine racks to build!)
> 
> Here are my assumptions: I wish to make a kit, let it age a certain time, and then consume the bottles at a constant rate over a few years (its shelf life). The variables are:
> 
> ...


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## olusteebus (Jul 9, 2014)

saved as a bookmark.


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## FTC Wines (Jul 9, 2014)

Paul, I'll need to DRINK more wine if I'm going to do ALL that math. Then the equations will be all off! LOL, Roy


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## Runningwolf (Jul 9, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Man, What a great thread!
> 
> My inventory WAS about 2,500 bottles. I say WAS for a reason..
> 
> I learned the hard way that building inventory is wonderful, but only up to a point. Many wines can only last just so long. Corks, too can only last so long.



This was my exact reason for cutting out the whites and sweet wines for a while. This harvest I am ready to fire up again as time allows.


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## cimbaliw (Jul 9, 2014)

John T, thanks for the insight. I always figured that 2-3 yrs was probably max life for most wines. Thanks for the opportunity to learn from your experience.

Paul, the formula is most excellent. I suspect it can be used for individual wines (reds, whites and novelty) and then volume averaged, if necessary, like a (gulp) meta analysis. Thanks for the effort.

BC


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## heatherd (Jul 9, 2014)

Another equation to consider:
I have found that I can have a maximum of four carboys or primaries brewing at one time in our kitchen. Exceeding that limit pisses off my hubby. 


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## sour_grapes (Jul 9, 2014)

heatherd said:


> Another equation to consider:
> I have found that I can have a maximum of four carboys or primaries brewing at one time in our kitchen. Exceeding that limit pisses off my hubby.



Heather: I know you were just funnin', but you may also be interested in this tidbit. I also have four carboys. My goal is to make one batch (kit) a month, and to age in the carboy as long as possible before bottling. I worked up a spreadsheet that plans my winemaking schedule, allowing a 5-15-20-70 day schedule. That is 5 days in primary, 15 in "secondary," 20 clearing, and 70 in bulk aging. I can do that with 4 carboys and start a new kit each month. Let me know if you want the spreadsheet.


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## vernsgal (Jul 10, 2014)

My inventory is currently over the 500 mark(too lazy to count lol) At 1st I was strictly kits. I would do a bunch of cheap ones to stop me from drinking the higher end ones til they aged well. Since joining this site though I now have ,at least 150 fruit etc types added.



Runningwolf said:


> I do very little or no kits or novelty wines anymore but I am considering making another jalapeno wine.



I did a raspberry jalapeno wine. It's still young (about 6 months) very hot, and not just in alcohol lol. What food would you recommend you jalapeno with?


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## ffemt128 (Jul 10, 2014)

vernsgal said:


> My inventory is currently over the 500 mark(too lazy to count lol) At 1st I was strictly kits. I would do a bunch of cheap ones to stop me from drinking the higher end ones til they aged well. Since joining this site though I now have ,at least 150 fruit etc types added.
> 
> 
> 
> I did a raspberry jalapeno wine. It's still young (about 6 months) very hot, and not just in alcohol lol. What food would you recommend you jalapeno with?


 
It goes with anything. It is more a sipping wine. I like to use ours as a marinade for shrimp or chicken.


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## Runningwolf (Jul 10, 2014)

It also goes very well in chili.


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## heatherd (Jul 10, 2014)

Sourgrapes, yes I would love to see that spreadsheet!


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## tanddc (Jul 10, 2014)

Paul,

Thank you for the formula. Do you also have a formula for how to fit all those bottles in my basement?:

I have done a spreadsheet as well to try and calculate how much I need to make early to get started on the path to self-sufficiency. I plan to get at least 6 carboys plus any I can find at yard sales. I PLAN to get 6. I still don't know Heatherd's formula for maximum carboys without pissing off the spouse.


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## sour_grapes (Jul 10, 2014)

heatherd said:


> Sourgrapes, yes I would love to see that spreadsheet!



I have attached it as a zipped .xslx file. If you are not able to unzip it or read it, PM me your email address and I will send you the file (or an .xls file, if you have an old version of Excel).

There is also a sheet in that file that I use to monitor my inventory and aging of wines after bottling. 

View attachment winecellartracker_sample.zip


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## sour_grapes (Jul 10, 2014)

tanddc said:


> Paul,
> 
> Thank you for the formula. Do you also have a formula for how to fit all those bottles in my basement?:



Well, here was my solution!


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## francois_du_nord (Jul 10, 2014)

This thread is expanding so fast I can't even keep up. Jump off to PM S_G and all of a sudden there is a whole new page. 

As per my PM, I too have a spreadsheet that I'm willing to share, I'll dl Paul's .xls and compare and contrast with my meager efforts. I certainly didn't get to the stage of calculating shelf life (aka Half Life???) or consumption rates. I was just trying to schedule out my fermentation and storage resources. 

I'm starting from scratch and aspire to a cellar like Pauls in the pic above.


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## sour_grapes (Jul 10, 2014)

Thanks for the kind words, Francois, but I think you can aspire to a little higher than me!


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## olusteebus (Jul 10, 2014)

how many bottles will it hold Sour_Grapes


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## RonInHollywood (Jul 10, 2014)

any suggestions on best way to store bottles? shelves, cheap yet sturdy wine racks?


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## Jocelyn (Jul 10, 2014)

Fantastic Paul! Anyway you can get us just the template so we can print it and write it in manually? Excel is my nemesis just looking at it makes me feel like I have had to many glasses of wine...


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## sour_grapes (Jul 10, 2014)

olusteebus said:


> how many bottles will it hold Sour_Grapes



About 450, depending on how many are Burgundy style and how many are Bordeaux style.

I chose to make the diamonds at 60 degrees (Harlequin pattern), which is the most efficient possible arrangement.


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## tanddc (Jul 11, 2014)

Sour Grapes,

Wow, that is quite the setup. Thank you for sharing your spreadsheet. I am going to take a look and see what I can glean to help me. I love real world experience with data. I think I will start something like that for myself. 

Thanks again for sharing.

Is that wine rack in your basement?


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## sour_grapes (Jul 11, 2014)

Jocelyn said:


> Fantastic Paul! Anyway you can get us just the template so we can print it and write it in manually? Excel is my nemesis just looking at it makes me feel like I have had to many glasses of wine...



Hi, Jocelyn,

I'm willing to try to provide something useful, but I am not quite sure what you are asking for... The beauty of using Excel is that it calculates the future dates for you. I'll take a look over the weekend if there is something useful I can come up with.



tanddc said:


> Sour Grapes,
> 
> Wow, that is quite the setup. Thank you for sharing your spreadsheet. I am going to take a look and see what I can glean to help me. I love real world experience with data. I think I will start something like that for myself.
> 
> ...



In the basement, yes. It superseded the previous one, which is right next to it:


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## tanddc (Jul 11, 2014)

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that one is "under the stairs" 

I think I am most impressed with your patience. I am not sure if I am going to able to wait that long for my wine. 

I also thought you had one heck of a New Years Day in 2013 until I realized that some of the wines listed were not even started yet.


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## sour_grapes (Jul 11, 2014)

tanddc said:


> I am going to go out on a limb and guess that one is "under the stairs"



Actually, it is not. It is a full-height closet right next to the other one; it looks short because the water meter is under the lowest visible shelf. (I built the rack in an existing closet meant to house the meter.)

"Under the stairs" is where my carboys reside. I also had about 300 bottles in cases there before I build that rack. When the rack is full, that's is where I am going to put the new batches, too!



> I also thought you had one heck of a New Years Day in 2013 until I realized that some of the wines listed were not even started yet.



Yeah, 1/1/2013 was my "default" starting time for everything. I suppose it may have been more believable if I had chosen 12/31/2012!


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## francois_du_nord (Jul 11, 2014)

Paul,

I think she is just looking for you to format the worksheet so that it prints landscape and is sized for 8.5 x 11" paper(assuming Jocelyn is in the US).




Jocelyn said:


> Fantastic Paul! Anyway you can get us just the template so we can print it and write it in manually? Excel is my nemesis just looking at it makes me feel like I have had to many glasses of wine...


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## buffalofrenchy (Jul 12, 2014)

francois_du_nord: Parlez vous francais?


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## francois_du_nord (Jul 15, 2014)

BF:

Je parle un peu francaise. Et tu? 

Mais Francois est mon nomme du guerre!

Best, Fran


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## buffalofrenchy (Jul 15, 2014)

Je suis francais qui habite a Buffalo NY


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