# First time fresh must. Head space, temp, etc?



## gush (May 15, 2011)

I tried searching for "head space" and "krausen" on this forum (i am used to making beer) and couldnt find anything.

Long story short, i have made a few country wines, 1 6-gal batch of skeeter pee, and 1 wine kit so far. I have also brewed 7 batches of beer. Yesterday my buddy and i went to m&m grapes in hartford, ct and bought a 6.5 gallon pail of 2011 fresh crushed chilean merlot must. Here are my questions concerning it:

-queston 1-
Here's the question. There is a bout 2" of head space in the bucket. Is that enough room for the fermentation? Or should i scoop some of the must out after i add the yeast into a smaller bucket? How much head space is typicaly needed for fermentation? Does the must have a really high krausen? Do you call it krausen in wine as well as beer?

-question 2-
The must is currently at 55 degrees and i have a brew belt on the bucket trying to get it up to pitching temps, it's beer over 24hrs since i got the bucket but the temps last night were 40 degrees (far too cold for the yeast to get going) Would it hurt to add the yeast at 58-60 degrees and mix it in? Will the yeast survive that kind of temperature change (currently they are room temp)? I am pitching optired & d254. I plan on putting the yeast and optired into seperate small dishes to rehydrate and adding them within an hour of each other or so. The wine will be fermenting in the basement so it will be at a comfy 68-70 degrees.

-question 3-
I had two contradicting opinions on the pressing and adding of malolactic cultures. One person said for merlot grapes i should press the must at 5 days then add the cultures (only if needed), the other person said i should add the cultures when there is 6brix left and then press the grapes the next day they did not mention "only if needed". I understand a lot of the winemaking process is based upon personal methods and such, and neither way seems wrong... I am looking to make this merlot as fruit forward as possible. I also don't mind a heavy tannin wine (and my wine making partner prefers them) so i wouldnt mind going out of the "style" of merlot by leaving the must for a few days longer before pressing to get more tannins... Are there any personal/scientific suggestions for this?

-question 4-
We bought french medium toasted oak chips for the wine. The package says to use 1/3 cup for 5 gallons of wine. It was suggested that we use a bit less in the merlot, but no length of time was mentioned. I dont mind letting this wine bulk age for 6-12 months before bottling, but am not sure if the oak should be in there that long?

I know i am jumping into this hobby feet first, but it is truly something i have been wanting to do for years (didnt have the space/time) and something i am enjoying thoroughly. I know i skipped a few steps like making more wines from kits and buying just juice, but i am pretty confident and i think i just need to get my hands dirty and do something rather then contemplate the next step anymore.


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## Tom (May 15, 2011)

1st if it all juice then no pressing. You said you got 6 gallons of JUICE right.

2nd in most cases add yeast, nutrient when room temp and LAY the lid on top. unlike beer you do not need to snap the lid on w/ airlock. Leave that way till 1.030 then snap shut w/ airlock. What yeast are you using?

3rd I would pass on MLF since its your 1st batch. See how you like it 1st.

4th Do YOU like a oaked wine? Have you tasted what merlot tastes like? no reason to add stuff if you dont know the wine profile or what it tastes like. If you do add oak chips do so after you stabilized and taste it in a few weeks.

Remember YOU are making wine for YOU so its to YOUR liking/tatste. 

I just bottled my Chilean from Last year...


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## gush (May 15, 2011)

The bucket is of fresh 2011 destemed and crushed chilean merlot grapes. It was 3-lugs worth. We pitched the yeast tonight at ~68-70 degrees after using a brew belt to bring the must up to temp.

We did end up adding nutrient as well as a bit of energizer because i had some on hand. We did leave the lid loosely ontop and plan on punching down the cap 2-3 times a day. We are using optired (which apperently is a sort of yeast) and d254 (the main yeast).

The grape company said they pretty much suggest MLF on all their red wine grapes to limit the chance of a fermentation in the bottle as well as give a more silky mouth feel. We just bought the cultures based on their advice and what i have read in my wine books.

We do like oaked wine, my friend chose to do the french oak (i wanted american, but then again... i picked the grapes and yeast so i was ok with it). I think I ultimately would enjoy a very fruit forward, lightly oaked merlot with a decent amount of tannin behind it. That being said i think we will use 1/4 cup of chips (or a bit less) instead of the 1/3 it suggests.

I think i will let the must ferment down to 1.030 - 1.20 before pressing. At that point we will taste it, and if it seems harsh then we will go ahead with the MLF. We are both regular wine drinkers as well as beer, so we understand some of the styles and oaks etc. We go to and help with a wine tasting every year that has about 48+ bottles of wine. I chose the merlot grape and the d254 yeast based upon the availability and fact that they can be made into very fruit forward wines (which i prefer over dry wines). 

I know my post count is... well its almost non-existent, and i also have only been brewing beer and wine for ~3-4 months or so, but i have been drinking beer and wine a lot longer (7+ years), LOL. I have been contemplating this hobby for years, and when another of my buddys got into beer brewing this january i jumped in full force and tried my hand at both beer and wine. Ive read "From vines to wines", "the complete guide to making your own wine at home: everything explained simply", "the homebrewers garden" and i am currently working on "desinging great beers" and "New, Brewing lager beer". I have also been lurking homebrewtalk.com and these these forums for the past 4 months everyday, and pretty much all day because we are very slow at work right now. I do have a pretty good understanding of the general processes and why they are done. As well as measuring gravitys and sanitization. I guess i am more just looking for some advice on how to get where i want and how to modify those processes to accomodate that.

How was your chilean? What kind of grape(s) did you use? Fresh crushed or juice? Any tasting notes?




Tom said:


> 1st if it all juice then no pressing. You said you got 6 gallons of JUICE right.
> 
> 2nd in most cases add yeast, nutrient when room temp and LAY the lid on top. unlike beer you do not need to snap the lid on w/ airlock. Leave that way till 1.030 then snap shut w/ airlock. What yeast are you using?
> 
> ...


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## Rock (May 17, 2011)

Hey gush,sounds like you could get around 5 gallons.

#1-2"head space not enough get bigger primary.
#2-Next time do not use brew belt.Add k-meta to stunt wild yeast,for an extended soak.Then You should have added your enzyme at the same time as the k-meta.Opti-red works great and you can add with your enzyme.12-24hrs later add your yeast.
#3-You can add ml culture at low brix or add after secondary.racking off lees.Merlot is a little tough to get through mlf so add ml nutrient.
#4-oak to taste bulk age and bottle after 1 year.keep your s02 levels up. 
Good luck next time let us know what your ph levels and ta levels are.


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## gush (May 18, 2011)

I ended up having to take some of the must out of the primary and putting about 1-2 gallons of must into two smaller buckets as well (as I had no other buckets, just carboys available).

I know that kmeta before primary to kill wild yeast is the normal procedure for the county wines I've made but I didn't want to take a chance at making the must have too much so2 for the MLF. When you say enzyme are ou talking pectic enzyme? I didn't add any because I read that grapes didn't have much pectin in them? The must is getting very soupy as the fermentation goes on, so I hope I am extracting the most juice without it? If you are talking pectic enzyme I could add some tonight. I was at 1.102og on Sunday, last night I was at 1.072 so I still have a bit of fermentation left. 

I did get MLF nutrient, the homebrew store actually hooked me up with some for free (cause its such a small amount to what they normally sell). Unfortunatly they did not give me any idea of to how much to add to the must (per gallon etc). I will look this up later online and I am sure I can figure it out. 

Bulk aging in bottle is after racking off of the oak correct?

Thanks for the advice! It is much appreciated! I know I'm kind of jumping into things but I am confident that this is going to be some great wine! We are also doing a much larger batch with this years fall harvest. We are going to get our Better halves to stomp up the grapes with their feet! We are also in the process of building our bottle jack powered press (details to follow in a new thread later on).


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## jet (May 18, 2011)

Bulk aging is done in a carboy after the wine has cleared. Bottle aging vs bulk aging is one of those never ending debates.

Some experts recommend a low dose of meta before primary even with a MLF to come.


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## joea132 (May 18, 2011)

Don't be nervous about adding SO2 before fermentation in regards to MLF. Most if not all of the free SO2 will blow off or bind up in a short amount of time. Even if you goof SO2 decreases over time. You won't be drinking your wine in the same timeframe as beer. That was the hardest lesson for me when I started, patience I mean!


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## ibglowin (May 18, 2011)

Sounds like you have things pretty much under control. Talk about jumping in feet first! 

I have to respectfully disagree with Rock and say the brew belt was a good call. You have to bring the temps up since you started from a frozen product and you are still quite cool/cold outdoors as well. You really should bring things up to 72 degrees. Sure the yeast will start at lower temps but why not make the "pool" and the yeast happy to begin with at a temp they will enjoy dipping their toes in. Opti Red is not actually yeast but actually inactivated yeast fractions.

You can wait on the oak until you have racked off the gross lees and stabilized. Since this is a fresh grape product it will more than likely clear all on its own with out any need for fining agents. Kits due to there up front must processing do not clear very well all on their own.

Also you will not be able to tell much about the wine and wether or not it needs MLF by tasting it green after a week of fermentation unless you have a very experienced mouth. The only real way for the average Joe is by running a few quick test. pH and TA. Those really need to be done before pitching the yeast but you can and should still test afterwards. If the TA is low you really do not want to do an MLF as this would only make matters a bit worse plus you don't have much acid to convert anyway.

Don't worry about the temps getting too warm. Even high 80's is just fine and make for a better extraction. You may have to keep an eye on things close to the end of fermentation and keep it warm so you don't risk a stuck fermentation. Try not to let the must go below 70 and they will be happy campers throughout the process.

Welcome to the Forums!


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## robie (May 18, 2011)

Hey Gush, welcome to the forum.

You can go to Wal-mart, Target, or most any store that has a bakery department and they will give you nice, food-grade buckets you can clean up and use for fermenting or corkadors. They work great for small jobs, like your overflow situation.

They just throw them away if you don't ask for them. Ask for the lids, too.


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## Rock (May 18, 2011)

Yea mike I thought he picked up fresh grapes not frozen.that's why I would have not used brew belt.


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## gush (May 18, 2011)

Just to clarify a few things.

The grapes were fresh 2011 chilean merlot grapes that had been crushed and destemed the night before and put into a freezer/fridge (it was 42* when i got home, which is far too cold for the yeast)

As far as bulk aging.. What i meant with my post is i should bulk age in a carboy after i get the oak flavor i want (which would be after 2ndary) correct? We dont mind sitting on this for 6 months to a year if we have to.

ps. Thanks for all the help guys! I can't wait to get my press into the building process (this batch is gonna be hand pressed ugh) and definatly cant wait till the fall harvest. I am a draftsman and plan to post my 2d plans on here once i finish tweaking the design. We are thinking up names for our wines as we are splitting each batch. I am in the process of learning still, and i am passing on everything ive found so far to my brewing partner.

And just as a bit more background on how far i have intended to go with this. For the past 2 years i had my own house but i knew it wasnt my "forever home", so i didnt plant any grapes. I just sold my house on march 1st and have been living back at home with my fiance in my parents basement looking for a new place. We are trying to find a house with more land (2-3+ acres) so that we can do a vineyard and some fruit trees. If me and my brewing partner get good enough at this we will be looking at buying a distribution license, as we know alot of people who already want to by our beer. I know its really early to talk to about this kind of stuff, but it has been something that i have been wanting to do for the past 2 years, but was limited by land and a few other circumstances. There are a few local vineyard in my area that i have visited and put my name in as a volunteer. There's a large demand for grapes where i live so if i cant make all my future harvests into wine, i can certainly sell the grapes. This is a big step for me, i'm just excited.. that's all im trying to say. I appreciate the advise and look forward to being able to help the newbies like me in the future.


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## ibglowin (May 18, 2011)

6 mo to a year?

Try 1.5 to 2 years unless you like drinking liquid twigs and seeds. 

You have plenty of time my friend.


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