# Ok here we go... 2017 first crush



## Smok1 (Sep 22, 2017)

Ok so i got my first grape shipment. The reisling we ordered didnt happen, not why. Anyway i was compensated with merlot instead and i cant say im disapointed. So, i have in the refrigerators 3 lugs of Syrah, and 3 lugs of Merlot. I only bought one batch of MLF bacteria but it says its good to 66gallons so i assume i can split it between the batches. Yeast will be rc212 hydrated with goferm and fermaidk as the nutrient. To start i spent the day cleaning the wine room, sanitizing all surfaces.

So Day1. 
Step1:Wash/rinse all the grapes first?
Step2: run grapes through crusher removing the stems into my fermenter.
Step 3: add pectic enzyme.
Step 4: kmeta to 30-50ppm (on the grape crates its stamped "sulphite has been added for fungicide"
Step5: take juice sample and take ph/ta/brix
Step6: adjust ph/ta/brix? Or is this done tomorrow after the pectic enzymes have a chance to do some work?


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## pgentile (Sep 22, 2017)

Sounds like you're off to good start. 

1: I don't wash grapes, not sure what others do, but I get rid of badly raisined, unripe and moldy grapes.
2: yes
3: yes
4: yes
5: yes
6:I wouldn't adjust anything the first 24 hours, take readings before you pitch yeast and then maybe adjust.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 22, 2017)

Agree with @pgentile . 

Let the crushed/destemmed must sit for 12-24 hours, then remeasure brix and acid and adjust if necessary before pitching yeast.


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## Smok1 (Sep 23, 2017)

So, first update, first batch we did was the syrah, berries were nice, kinda squished into the crates, i thought the crusher would destem and we would pick the stems out of the crush, not so good, so new plan, got to the merlot, destemmed first, then crushed. The merlot berries were much nicer than the syrah berries. Syrah was a mess, berries all over the floor, merlot went much smoother... learning curves, i hope that a few stems left in the syrah wont hurt it.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 23, 2017)

1st all grape-new equipment- yea I'd say so. Everything I do still has learning curves. 
The crusher you bought has lots of gaps between the teeth, instead of like, a ribbed roller looking thing that literally leaves maybe 1/16" of space. Makes destemming after doable -- but still not the easiest thing. 
@Pgentile has a good move. Crush em with the stems. But instead of fishing them out right away, does it over the course of the next few day. As the grapes break down the stems become more clean and can be pulled out easily without negatively affecting the wine. 
I would never attempt all that inside the house tho. You'll be finding discarding grape skins around for months to come!
And I have those same Pia grapes. What kind of info did you get on where they are from?


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## Smok1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Ok so heres the first numbers.

Syrah:
Ph:4.1
Ta: 0.5%
Brix:24

Merlot:
Ph:3.9
Ta:0.5%
Brix:24

Why is my ph so high? I just bought a new HM digital ph meter for $130, i recalibrated it at 4ph multiple times, it appears its working correctly. I tryed multiple different ways, pulled a sample, crushed in a jar with a muddle and strained, i put in a blender and blended it up, same results every time.

Add tartaric acid to lower ph now until i get to 3.5?


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## pgentile (Sep 23, 2017)

Smok1 said:


> So, first update, first batch we did was the syrah, berries were nice, kinda squished into the crates, i thought the crusher would destem and we would pick the stems out of the crush, not so good, so new plan, got to the merlot, destemmed first, then crushed. The merlot berries were much nicer than the syrah berries. Syrah was a mess, berries all over the floor, merlot went much smoother... learning curves, i hope that a few stems left in the syrah wont hurt it.



As @ajmassa5983 said I crush and then fish out stems for a few days at the beginning of AF. Leaving a few stems in throughout won't hurt anything in my short experience. But many people are more strict than I am and would advise get as many stems out as possible before fermentation. I do believe I read somewhere there is an acceptable percentage of stems to grapes in the must.


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## pgentile (Sep 23, 2017)

Smok1 said:


> Ok so heres the first numbers.
> 
> Syrah:
> Ph:4.1
> ...



What's the temp of the must right now? If you just crushed today I wouldn't adjust anything until readings are taken tomorrow. I've never had grapes come in that high in pH, your meter adjusts for temp? Others have and should be able to help better.


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## Smok1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Crushed yesterday, temp is still a bit low 18C, but my ph meter adjusts for temp.


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## pgentile (Sep 23, 2017)

Hmmm...in that case I'm inclined to lean towards trying to bring it down a bit to the 3.5-3.6 range. I have no experience with this to recomend dosage. Hopefully someone will chime in soon with advise.


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## pgentile (Sep 23, 2017)

From More Wine:

Looking at the pH and the TA: With a pH of 3.95 and a TA of .50, we want to lower thepH and raise the TA. Fortunately, we can do both by adding tartaric acid to the must. However, we must be careful not to overdo it. Must/juice is very complex. Each wine's unique make-up will cause it to respond to the adjustment in a unique way when making additions to the pH and TA. Two different wines with the same exact pH and TA will respond differently to an equivalent acid addition. Yes, the numbers are important, but ultimately, they only give you an idea of the boundaries you're working in, not absolute answers. A good analogy for this is thinking about driving at night: Not testing your pH is like driving in the dark with your headlights off- you have no idea which direction you're going. Testing not only illuminates the road ahead, but it also lights up the reflectors and paint lines. You can see where you are going along with the boundaries that promote safe driving. Furthermore, since it is quite difficult to know how any must or wine will react to an acid addition, we cannot express enough that it is always best to add a portion of the amount you think you need, then taste and test to be sure. It is very easy to overdo things. With a patient and measured approach, you'll be saved from having to fix an over-correction. Once you have tasted the partial addition, you can decide if the rest will be needed. 

https://morewinemaking.com/articles/complete_must_adjustment_pH_TA_Brix


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## pgentile (Sep 23, 2017)

I posted the wrong part, but if you read through linked page, it gives you some direction.


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## Smok1 (Sep 23, 2017)

pgentile said:


> I posted the wrong part, but if you read through linked page, it gives you some direction.



Thanks pgentile, ill proceed with half dose of tatrtric acid and check ph again after my sons soccer game


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## Smok1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Ok so each batch is about 12 gallons of must, i added 4 tbsp to the syrah and 3.5 tbsp to the merlot, both are sitting at 

Brix:24
Ph:3.5/3.6 bouncing back and forth
Ta: 0.7-0.75

Tonight i plan to calculate fermaid k addition, ill do 1/2 dose now and 1/2 dose at about 1.030. Pitching rc212 rehydrated with goferm.

Must on both is at 19.5 degrees C right now so i have a heat belt on it. I will pitch yeast when they reach 22C

In 24 hours i will pitch MLF nutrients and bacteria.


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## pgentile (Sep 23, 2017)

Looking good, keep us posted on progress.


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## pgentile (Sep 24, 2017)

That was half the recommended dose of TA? Recently I had a low pH 3.15 batch that I added one dose of potassium-bicarb that was supposed to get me to about 3.3, but ended up at 3.6, while not bad, it shows that taking half the recommended dose steps is wise.


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## Smok1 (Sep 24, 2017)

pgentile said:


> That was half the recommended dose of TA? Recently I had a low pH 3.15 batch that I added one dose of potassium-bicarb that was supposed to get me to about 3.3, but ended up at 3.6, while not bad, it shows that taking half the recommended dose steps is wise.



Yep, half the recommended dose seemed to get me where i wanted to be. I think i calculated out a full dose would have got me from 4.1 to 3.4, half the dose is what i used and it went from 4.1 to 3.6 so im gonna go with it.


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## Smok1 (Sep 24, 2017)

Pitched rc212 last night, bubbling away nicely on both this morning. I still have 12 full carboys aging in the back rack as you can see, im going to need to bottle a few to make some room for the new wines.


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## pgentile (Sep 24, 2017)

Nice setup. Looks like a vigorous start. Many here would recommend a towel over the brutes instead of the lids during primary.

I faced the same issue when it was time to press, calculated what I needed and was short one 5gl carboy. Went and picked up one, racked a few aging wines that needed kmeta after 3 months, pressed the latest batches, racked another from secondary. When all was done this past week I had 3 empty carboys. Don't know what math I was using, but I should have no empties. 

But my math error just means I'm going run and get a few juice buckets in 30 minutes and get those empties filled in 10 days or so.


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## Smok1 (Sep 24, 2017)

I ussually use towels, the lids are just sitting loose on there, ill switch over to towels as soon as it starts creating some gas. I have a few carboys ready to bottle but im still waiting for my AIO wine pump in the mail i want to try out bottling with it, im in canada and the shipping is insanely slow here, plus it sat in customs for a week. Hoping to get it begining of this week sometime so i can make some room in some carboys, if not ill be buying more but my rack only holds 12 carboys so ill have to make room on the shelf below.


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## Smok1 (Sep 24, 2017)

Ok so 24 hours in. Here we go. Added nutrients for mlf ( leucofood ) 10g. And viniflora oneos. Split into 2 batches.


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## Smok1 (Sep 28, 2017)

Ok so today sg on merlot .996, sg on syrah .994. Used my AIO coupled with a stainless steel strainer to rack out most the juice and then ran it through my press. Syrah yeilded about 31 liters, merlot yeild about 38 liters. Merlot came out a bit lighter colored than i would have liked to see but the syrah is a deep rich purple im happy with that, both smell good. Fermentation went really good, no off smells no h2s.

So my one concern is i tested ph on the syrah (i will run ph/ta on both tomorrow morning) but my ph is 3.8 ( when i got these grapes initial ph was 3.9-4.0 on both, i adjusted to 3.6 using tartaric acid) i co-innoculated MLF 24 hours after i pitched yeast (rc212). So now im concerned with my high PH. From what ive read 3.8 puts me in the danger zone if not protected properly by so2. Should i add tartaric acid right now to 3.6? Should i leave it a week and do a chromatography test? Do a chrom test now? Dose with kmeta now?

Question2: after about 8 hours it accumulated about an inch of lees, given im doing MLF should i leave it or rack it off?

Oh, and i posted a photo of me and my wife at a wine and paint night we went to on wednesday, it was really fun, the artist walked us through painting our own version of there "wine under candlelight" painting, we enjoyed a nice bottle of 2015 australian shiraz.


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## Johny99 (Sep 28, 2017)

Sounds like a fun night painting. I wouldn’t worry about the syrah pH quite yet. 3.8 is not out of range. Make sure Mulford is complete and sulphite appropriately. Then as time goes you can adjust by taste. 3.8 can be a safe stable wine.

As for color of the merlot, you can always blend in a bit of the Syrah. One of my tutors says that you blend for three things: Color, bouquet and taste. Yet, not necessarily all three.


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## pgentile (Sep 28, 2017)

Smok1 said:


> . Should i add tartaric acid right now to 3.6? Should i leave it a week and do a chromatography test? Do a chrom test now? Dose with kmeta now?
> 
> Question2: after about 8 hours it accumulated about an inch of lees, given im doing MLF should i leave it or rack it off?



Q1 & Q2: Wait 24-36 hours then rack off lees, more will drop out, no k-meta yet. Then take pH reading again. I wouldn't do chroma test for another 3 weeks or so.


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## pgentile (Sep 29, 2017)

My zin/cab/ps was co-inoculated, did chroma at 18 days, test showed malo still present, at 27 days it's still showing visible MLF activity. No k-meta yet.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 29, 2017)

First time MLF might help to do a control test though to see where your at. And also to familiarize yourself with the test. Plus you might get lucky. 
This one was done only 12 days after inoculation.


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## NorCal (Sep 29, 2017)

3.8 is fine, I wouldn't adjust, seeing how you already added tartaric. You will probably hit your TA threshold, where the wine will start tasting sour with further additions.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 29, 2017)

Agree with what everyone else said. Always rack 24 hours or so after pressing. Don't worry about the pH. From what I understand, CO2 can throw the reading off anyway. If you want, go ahead and to a chromatography test. Helpful if this is your first run to get some practice, plus you'll have a baseline to measure against in a few weeks. Nice paintings.

Where did you get the stainless steel column strainer? I love it.


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## Smok1 (Sep 29, 2017)

Ok thanks guys, ill do a chrom test and rack today, otherwise i will leave it alone, the stainless strainer ive had for a while, but its just a stainless steel utensil holder but works great for what im using it for.


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## Smok1 (Oct 9, 2017)

Heres my first chromatography test, the kit i bought only came with 125ml of solution, it barely makes contact with 1/8” in the bottom of the jar, anyways i can clearly see there no malic spots on the paper and if you put it up to the right light you can see the lactic spots, this was taken after only 7 days of co-innoculation. Both wines smell and taste really good, color extraction was not the greatest. The syrah was a nice color, maybe not as dark as i would like to see but a nice deep color never the less, the merlot on the other hand is quite light in color, taste and smell really nice but definty lighter in color than i would like to see


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## Johnd (Oct 9, 2017)

Your developer solution didn’t get all of the way to the top, either because there wasn’t enough, or because you took the paper out too soon. 

Were your standards liquid or powder that had to be mixed with water? Spots are all very light. Looks like you only had malic and lactic standards, and I don’t see any malic spots, that’s good. 

Mine are much more pronounced, see below:


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## Smok1 (Oct 9, 2017)

Johnd said:


> Your developer solution didn’t get all of the way to the top, either because there wasn’t enough, or because you took the paper out too soon.
> 
> Were your standards liquid or powder that had to be mixed with water? Spots are all very light. Looks like you only had malic and lactic standards, and I don’t see any malic spots, that’s good.
> 
> Mine are much more pronounced, see below:



There liquid solutions, i only used malic and lactic solutions, i left the paper in the jar for 24 hours. They only sent me a 125ml bottle and by the time i poured it into the jar ( because the jar isnt perfectly flat on the bottom) the paper was only making contact with about 1/8” of the paper max. Im putting another order in for chromatography solution but its a huge pain because of the “hazardous material” shipping charge. Im in the middle of trying to figure out exactly what the chemical for that solution is so i can just order it through my wife who works at a compunding pharmacy. Either way the liquid made it far enough up the sheet to show the absence of malic acid which is all i needed but i will order more solution in the next few weeks so i can test my next mlf run. 

I used the tiny glass pipettes to do my drops on the paper so i dont know why its not super pronounced. Either leaving it in the jar for 24 hours was too long ( but still didnt have enough solution to make it to the top of the paper) or i didnt put enough sample on the paper, i made a 1/4” round spot, i thought that was enough.


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## Johnd (Oct 9, 2017)

Smok1 said:


> There liquid solutions, i only used malic and lactic solutions, i left the paper in the jar for 24 hours. They only sent me a 125ml bottle and by the time i poured it into the jar ( because the jar isnt perfectly flat on the bottom) the paper was only making contact with about 1/8” of the paper max. Im putting another order in for chromatography solution but its a huge pain because of the “hazardous material” shipping charge. Im in the middle of trying to figure out exactly what the chemical for that solution is so i can just order it through my wife who works at a compunding pharmacy. Either way the liquid made it far enough up the sheet to show the absence of malic acid which is all i needed but i will order more solution in the next few weeks so i can test my next mlf run.
> 
> I used the tiny glass pipettes to do my drops on the paper so i dont know why its not super pronounced. Either leaving it in the jar for 24 hours was too long ( but still didnt have enough solution to make it to the top of the paper) or i didnt put enough sample on the paper, i made a 1/4” round spot, i thought that was enough.



Probably just the lack of solution...


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## Smok1 (Oct 9, 2017)

Johnd said:


> Probably just the lack of solution...



Ya thats what i thought, if i cant find locally i will put another order in thos week, i just pitched mlf on my new batch today so i wont need to test for a few more weeks.


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## Smok1 (Oct 11, 2017)

This years crush haul so far, minus a couple of the back carboys which are just aging kits. So far about 140 liters of wine. With one last crush to go this weekend hopefully, fingers crossed.


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## Bubba1 (Oct 14, 2017)

Last crush of the year 4 boxes of ruby cabernet first time with this grape its getting late in the season and most of the popular grapes are long gone.


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## JohnT (Oct 16, 2017)

What is that big red wheel and stick on your crusher?


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## Donz (Oct 16, 2017)

JohnT said:


> What is that big red wheel and stick on your crusher?


 
Looks like it's a manual crusher no motor! We had one like that back in the day. Good for 20 cases and less... Get above 50 as we are now and you definitely need the motor.


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## JohnT (Oct 16, 2017)

Donz said:


> Looks like it's a manual crusher no motor! We had one like that back in the day. Good for 20 cases and less... Get above 50 as we are now and you definitely need the motor.


 
My very first year of winemaking was with a hand-crank. It also proved to be the LAST year of winemaking with a hand crank.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 16, 2017)

JohnT said:


> What is that big red wheel and stick on your crusher?





I can smell that pompous jersey attitude from here. It's an acquired taste.


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## Smok1 (Oct 16, 2017)

I used a manual crusher this year and its only a crusher, so i destemmed 680lbs so far by hand, its been a huge PITA. Ill be investing in a crusher/destemmer for next year.


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