# Will the real Carboy Please Stand Up



## asterof (Feb 13, 2014)

so in my constant state of confusion, I need some clarification on the real measurement of a Carboy.
Lets take for instance that a kit that makes six gallons.
So you go through the primary, secondary, filtering and want to go to
aging in the Carboy. Why then is it that a six gallon kit, and yes it made six gallons, never fills a six gallon Carboy to the neck.
I think it is a conspiracy to make you mess up and go buy a smaller one each time. 
Now in years past we measured an ounce with three fingers.... oh wait wrong subject, we were discussing Carboys.
So what say ye on where is a Carboy actually measured.
Thanks


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 13, 2014)

Do you not lose volume on racking? At my first rack I lose volume due to lees. Then I lose even more after clearing... Is that what you are referring to? Also it's probably a good idea to ensure that your primary fermenter is marked with the gallon levels just in case your juice doesn't measure up exactly...


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## grapeman (Feb 13, 2014)

Many of the newer Italian made carboys are actually close to 6.5 gallons. The old Mexican made ones were much closer to 6 gallons.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 13, 2014)

Really? How the heck can they advertise them as such then? I have both types... I'm going to have tondo some measurements for fun. Thanks for info Grapeman


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 13, 2014)

I probably would have figured that out earlier but I do batches from scratch and always make a gallon extra for topping off. Now that i'm doing a few kits here and there I'm noticing a slight difference.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 13, 2014)

Yes, the carboys are all different sizes.

Here is what people were kind enough to tell me when I ran into the same quandary:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/carboy-confusion-41520/


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## Turock (Feb 14, 2014)

This is the inside joke around OUR winery----Some of these manufacturers don't seem to know what 5 gallons IS. We find lots of variation with all the 5 gallon carboys, especially!! The antique ones made in the USA hold more than any of the foreign made. Our cure for this is to have lots of marbles available.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 14, 2014)

Wow thanks so much for the link and the responses! I found that really helpful! I'm going to measure all of mine and try to rack down to whichever ones are smaller if I have any. I think I have a few smooth ones, 3 ribbed ones and 1 plastic one in 6 gal. 3 - 3gal with ribs. I'll see about those too.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 14, 2014)

Yep, definitely close to a half gallon of extra capacity on those Italian carboys. I think the 6 gallon mark is right at the shoulder. 

Better Bottle carboys seem to be pretty much right on 6 gallons though.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 14, 2014)

Wow I still can't get over this! Can't wait to measure mine. I'll measure 6 gals into one of my smooth ones and then syphon that into my other ones and mark them each at the 6 gal level. I'm having a revelation now from some times when my levels only went to the shoulders! But usually I make extra so I never noticed that problem.


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## DoctorCAD (Feb 14, 2014)

4 fingers, by the way...

Carboys are grossly made and not subject to any real standards. I have 4 5 gallon Better Bottles and they are all very close, but I also have 2 glass 6 gallon carboys that are not even close.

My suggestion is not to worry about it and use whatever volume you need to fill the carboy.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 14, 2014)

Ya that's fine and what I've been doing but I just hate the thought of diluting kit wines or juice buckets to fill up carboy space. What's the typical amount of marbles needed to fill from the shoulder to the neck? Anyone know? I'm going to look at how I can make a PVC tube that with removable capped ends to place the marbles on so they are easy to remove. What I'm picturing is two tubes one that fits inside the other. Both with tiny holes drilled in at the same places. So if you want to use the tube to implement oak chips you slide the tubes so the holes are matching up and in the open position so the oak can do its job. When you want to displace the volume, you can use the tube to fill with marbles and you keep the holes closed. However finding 2 tubes that fit tightly and water tight might be too much of a challenge. So maybe have 2 on hand, one for oaking and the other for displacement.


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## BernardSmith (Feb 14, 2014)

Slightly off topic but not really because we are measuring volume and volume is subject to change with temperature. Does anyone know how large or small a US gallon actually is when it comes to buying gas for your car? A gallon of gas in December when the outside temperature is 32 F must be considerably smaller than a gallon bought in July when the outside temperature is 95 F. What temperature is gas stored at? And how often is this volume modified to allow for variations in temperature? Does James in TX pay for a smaller gallon than we get in NY?


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## grapeman (Feb 14, 2014)

Bernard a gallon is a gallon is a gallon. Since it is a measure of volume, the volume remains the same, it is only the liquid within it that changes. The container size does not change, only what is within it. A more accurate measure would be by weight, which does not change but would be very cumbersome because the weight of a gallon (or any other measure) varies from item to item. A gallon of wine weighs a bit different than a gallon of gas or water. For practical purposes it is accurate enough for most uses.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 14, 2014)

Grapeman is correct. Moreover, gasoline has a fairly hefty coefficient of thermal expansion, so the effect is non-negligible. 

As a result of your question, I just learned that gasoline sold at wholesale is compensated for the temperature, but not at retail.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 14, 2014)

Ummm I get messages at my pump that say corrected volume and some temp degree what does that mean?

It appears to me that everyone must hold their gas at a standard temp in the tanks.


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## RegionRat (Feb 14, 2014)

BernardSmith said:


> Slightly off topic but not really because we are measuring volume and volume is subject to change with temperature. Does anyone know how large or small a US gallon actually is when it comes to buying gas for your car? A gallon of gas in December when the outside temperature is 32 F must be considerably smaller than a gallon bought in July when the outside temperature is 95 F. What temperature is gas stored at? And how often is this volume modified to allow for variations in temperature? Does James in TX pay for a smaller gallon than we get in NY?



One US gallon is 231 cubic inches. That is what I was taught many years ago in fire school. As for temp I would guess it would be at 60deg f.

This is just a guess when it come to weight. I would think the standard for one US gallon would be 128 fluid oz of water at 60 deg f.


Edit* 

From Wikipeda:
_The US gallon, which is equal to 3.785411784 litres, is legally defined as 231 cubic inches.[1][2] A US liquid gallon of water weighs about 8.34 pounds or 3.78 kilograms at 62 °F (17 °C), making it about 16.6% lighter than the imperial gallon. There are four quarts in a gallon, two pints in a quart and 16 fluid ounces in a US pint, which makes a US gallon equal to 128 fl. oz. In order to overcome the effects of expansion and contraction with temperature when using a gallon to specify a quantity of material for purposes of trade, it is common to define the temperature at which the material will occupy the specified volume. For example, the volume of petroleum products[3] and alcoholic beverages[4] are both referenced to 60 °F (16 °C) in government regulations._


Ummmm, and yes it used to be 4-fingers
RR


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## SmokeyMcBong (Feb 14, 2014)

i like your guys ounces!!


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## Runningwolf (Feb 14, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> It appears to me that everyone must hold their gas at a standard temp in the tanks.



Sometimes that's easier said than done. Sorry I couldn't help it.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 14, 2014)

Ok a bit off topic but a long the same line. This just happened to me this week. An elderly couple came in last week to buy 21 gallons of wine. I had it ready for them ahead of time. Well they called this week and said I ripped them off by two gallons. When they got home they filled up their one gallon jugs and were short by two gallons. Well I knew I was generous on what I gave them and it bothered me all day. Finally I looked up how many ml's were in a gallon and filled one up with water. Guess what? There was still a good bit of head space. I forget how much but it was well over 100 ml. 

The bottom line was, if they filled every jug to the very top (which they should have) they would be nearly 2 gallons short.


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## LoneStarLori (Feb 14, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Ya that's fine and what I've been doing but I just hate the thought of diluting kit wines or juice buckets to fill up carboy space. What's the typical amount of marbles needed to fill from the shoulder to the neck? Anyone know? I'm going to look at how I can make a PVC tube that with removable capped ends to place the marbles on so they are easy to remove. What I'm picturing is two tubes one that fits inside the other. Both with tiny holes drilled in at the same places. So if you want to use the tube to implement oak chips you slide the tubes so the holes are matching up and in the open position so the oak can do its job. When you want to displace the volume, you can use the tube to fill with marbles and you keep the holes closed. However finding 2 tubes that fit tightly and water tight might be too much of a challenge. So maybe have 2 on hand, one for oaking and the other for displacement.



I bought 10 lbs of marbles from someone on Ebay when I first started with the intent to use them to fill headspace. 10 lbs doesn't even fill a one gal jug. It's more like about 2 qt's. 
They come out of the carboy rather easy if you just tip it over into a strainer.

For my 6 gal kits, it just rack down to 5 gal carboys now. I only use the marbles in my 1 gal fruit wines.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks Lori! What about 5 gal juice buckets? I filled my plastic carboy today with 5 1/2 gal of water have no idea if it was supposed to be 5 or 6 that's sad in my opinion 

Might use my 5 gallon spring water jug to rack into reluctantly


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## LoneStarLori (Feb 14, 2014)

I have one 6 gal glass and the rest are all 5 gal. I like to have several batches going and the only time there is 6 gallons, is when I rack from the primary. 
I noticed the other day while racking from one 5 gal to another I didn't have enough room in the one I was racking to. They were both Italian too. Thats when I decided to measure and sure enough, there was about a quart difference between them. I marked a line with nail polish at the 5 gal mark so I will know which is the bigger one next time.
If you don't have a glass 5 gal, I don't think using a water bottle will hurt. At least not for a while. It's probably better than the buckets because of less air surface are. 
If you are going to bulk age, I would def get a glass one.

Now that you have lost all faith in carboy measurements, can I interest you in some marbles? lol


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 14, 2014)

Haha! You want to give me some marbles? Lol I have all 6 gals 3 gals and a few 1 gals which are plastic lol need some "5's" I guess lol


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## JetJockey (Feb 14, 2014)

My local wine store sells 6.5, 6, 5, 3 and one gallon glass carboys/jugs! I bought mine while listed at 6 gallon glass Italian and they are actually closer to 6.5 gallons. I now add my water for DB to the 6 gallon+ line on my 7.X gallon primary and then add the fruit (more than the recipe). This puts me about 1/2 inch below the primary lip. Carefully stirring! I end up not having to top up the 6.5 gal carboy when racking DB from primary to secondary. I have two 5 gallon cayboys that I use for wine with more lees so that I don't have to dilute the primary or top off. I reserve any extra in 1 gallon or 1/2 gallons to top up with.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 14, 2014)

Oh and I will get some 5 gal carboys just wasn't sure how fast lol


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## sour_grapes (Feb 14, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Ummm I get messages at my pump that say corrected volume and some temp degree what does that mean?



I am not sure, but I _think_ it means you live in Canada. I think there are consumer-protection laws in your neck of the woods that are not operative in mine.


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## LoneStarLori (Feb 14, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Oh and I will get some 5 gal carboys just wasn't sure how fast lol



I don't know if you have an All in One pump, but if you plan on buying one, I would get glass carboys. The plastic can be a pain with the pump.


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## Putterrr (Feb 15, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Ummm I get messages at my pump that say corrected volume and some temp degree what does that mean?
> 
> It appears to me that everyone must hold their gas at a standard temp in the tanks.


 


sour_grapes said:


> I am not sure, but I _think_ it means you live in Canada. I think there are consumer-protection laws in your neck of the woods that are not operative in mine.


 
In Canada fuel is sold with volume corrected to 15 degrees Celcius (Automatic Temperature Compensation (ATC)). 15 is what the government and industry has decided is the average temperature in Canada. So that means you are not buying an actual gallon but what a gallon by volume would be if it was sitting at 15 C. When the temperature is less than 15 you are getting less than the volume you buy and when it is over 15 C you get more. The only problem with this is that studies have shown that the average temp is less than 15. It is the view of some non-ATC retailers that, because of the average ambient temperature in Canada, the consumer would get less for his money and that the use of ATC amounted to a price increase for the oil companies.

cheers


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## Floandgary (Feb 15, 2014)

To be sure, any vessel you get that advertises x-volume will hold at least that volume. In most cases said vessel will not have reference to where that volume is measured. When you get one, it is simple enough to use a known volume marked container (use same one every time) to determine and mark various volumes on a new vessel. Confusing enough?? At least all of your efforts will be consistant...


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

Wonderful! Thanks for the info I didn't know that! We CDNS gets stuck with a lot of dumb laws lol


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## SmokeyMcBong (Feb 15, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Wonderful! Thanks for the info I didn't know that! We CDNS gets stuck with a lot of dumb laws lol



lol, you said a mouthful there!!!!


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

Thanks Floandgary! That's what I'm in the process of doing now. Was surprised to find the plastic one at 5.5 gals. But I marked it at the 3 and 5 gal marks. Dumb me I filled it while it was on the ground and then couldn't hoist it up to the counter to syphon the water to my other empty carboys! Had to wait for hubby to come home. 

Lori: ya for sure only buying glass from now on, that plastic one was given to us from somewhere...


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

SmokeyMcBong said:


> lol, you said a mouthful there!!!!




How do u mean?? I'm not going to get in trouble for that am I? Lol


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## bkisel (Feb 15, 2014)

Because of dealing with head space and a few other issues I'm liking my BBs more and more over my glass Italian carboys. It is why I took advantage of the 2 for 1 Bubbler carboy offer posted yesterday. I find myself using water (no more than 500ML) and like wine (750ML) and some marbles to get my Italians topped off for bulk aging. This is with making 23L/6 Gallon kits.


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## SmokeyMcBong (Feb 15, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> How do u mean?? I'm not going to get in trouble for that am I? Lol



lol, just agreeing with you. Its bad here but I don't think its so bad that we cant question authority. Yet. lol, but not really.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

SmokeyMcBong said:


> lol, just agreeing with you. Its bad here but I don't think its so bad that we cant question authority. Yet. lol, but not really.




Haha ya... Where are u located?


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

bkisel said:


> Because of dealing with head space and a few other issues I'm liking my BBs more and more over my glass Italian carboys. It is why I took advantage of the 2 for 1 Bubbler carboy offer posted yesterday. I find myself using water (no more than 500ML) and like wine (750ML) and some marbles to get my Italians topped off for bulk aging. This is with making 23L/6 Gallon kits.




I don't know of I can even get my hands on bbs. So they are regulated to have the exact capacity?


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## SmokeyMcBong (Feb 15, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Haha ya... Where are u located?



Toronto, but I try to spend as much time as I can in the Kawartha Lakes/Haliburton area.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

Cool! That's not too far from me. I'm in Renfrew which isn't too far from Haliburton! Nice to see another sort of local


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## bkisel (Feb 15, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> I don't know of I can even get my hands on bbs. So they are regulated to have the exact capacity?



I filled one of my primary buckets with water to the 6 gallon ridge line and then poured all the water into a BB. The water came right up to the neck of the BB. Of course racking off the lees and such you'll come up short of the neck but a whole lot less short than with my Italian glass carboys. 

My guess is that they are regulated to a consistent size due too the manufacturing process.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

Just racked a 6 gal Gewurtztraminer to a "6gal" Italian carboy and it only came up to the shoulders! Argh! I knew that was going to happen based on this enlightening thread! Also racked my 5 gal Gamay to a "5gal" plastic carboy which is the one I filled yesterday with 5.5gals. The juice also came up only to the shoulders! I better figure this out shortly! This is the Gewurtztraminer


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 16, 2014)

Btw I just measured a new 3gal Italian carboy that I got recently for my blueberry peach port. It was right on the money. My other two seemed to be fine as well? Is this only an issue with 5 and 6 gal sizes?


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## cintipam (Feb 16, 2014)

I have a couple 3 gallon, and they measure out at 3 gallon plus 3 extra cups. Most of the carboys I have of size have 3 extra cups over the stated measurement. My 6 gal Better Bottles are pretty true to size tho. I've found that if I go out of fermenting bucket to better bottle, at next racking it fits 5 gallon and extra 3 liters. Luckily I have lots of 3 liters, and use them a lot more than I thought I would. 

Pam in cinti


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 16, 2014)

Hmmm interesting! I measured mine out with a gallon jug and poured exactly 3 of these Ito the carboy and the level went to the bottom ring in the neck!


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 20, 2014)

What the heck are these? I bought them through Kijiji for $10 each - supposed to be 5 gal carboys. The openings are way too big for my #11 bungs! Will have to find something suitable for bungs. They are Pyrex and made in USA.






Carolyn


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## JetJockey (Feb 20, 2014)

Carolyn,
They're nice. Do they hold 5 gallons? That makes it easier to stir and get fruit, etc. into the opening! I've never seen them before. My local shop has 5 gallon carboys that look exactly like the italian 6.5 gal carboys. My 5 gallon carboys take the same stopper as the 6.5 gal ones.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 20, 2014)

These are supposed to hold 5 gals but I will have to measure as usual. At bigger holes will need new bungs? Hope they make them that big!


Carolyn


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

Hmmm couldn't find large enough bungs for these. Have to use a large cork stopper with a hole drilled in...


Carolyn


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## Runningwolf (Feb 22, 2014)

Carolyn, those carboys look great. I would have grabbed those in a heart beat. You can order rubber bungs to fit them. 

You have to remember if you're filling up a gallon jug to test your carboys you're adding more than a gallon each time. Gallon jugs are not filled to the top. next time you buy a glass gallon jug filled with liquid mark where it is filled to. If you have a decent beaker with ml's marked on it, you could add 3785 ml's of water to it and mark the jug.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

Thanks Runningwolf! You are correct at pointing that out! Further to that I was counting my 4 liter jugs as gallons when trying to measure some fill lines on some of my other carboys - promptly gave up after I realized that a gal is not quite 4 liters!! I have a good measuring cup that has mls and will have to painstakingly measure out the right amount in order to get this right! I have a Gamay batch sitting in a 5 gal spring water jug, waiting to be racked into one of those carboys. But when I racked it to that miserable jug I realized that was not 5 Gals either because where handle is located on the jug it indents and is less than 5 gals. So i have the extra in the fridge in a wine bottle. Fun stuff I tell you!!


Carolyn


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

Meant to ask where can I order bungs bigger than #11? I'll look around some more


Carolyn


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## Runningwolf (Feb 22, 2014)

Carolyn let me tell you a little secret and if you tell anyone I said it I'll deny it and make a fool out of you. Now just between us, the U.S. really screwed up using our numbering system. Back in the 70's there was a push to convert to metric and once again they blew it. We should have just bit the bullet, sucked up the pains for a few years and done it. Many people here don't realize how much easier it would make their lives or the lives of the future generation. Ok enough, remember I never said that.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

Ah Musca has 12s that will probably work! Has anyone seen these Pyrex jugs? I they look well made at least. Larger neck will make adding stuff and stirring easier. 


Carolyn


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## Runningwolf (Feb 22, 2014)

I bet if you find them on ebay they'll cost many times more than you paid for them. Incidentally I have one just like those only it's closer to 13 gallons. I saw a few on ebay close to $200.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 22, 2014)

carolyn, search for 5 gallon pyrex jugs...you will be very pleased ....


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm sure lol I only paid $10 each from an online ad


Carolyn


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

Runningwolf said:


> I bet if you find them on ebay they'll cost many times more than you paid for them. Incidentally I have one just like those only it's closer to 13 gallons. I saw a few on ebay close to $200.




Wha??? Lol why so costly? Anyone know what they were designed for or is it simply because they are Pyrex thus versatile?


Carolyn


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## Runningwolf (Feb 22, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> I'm sure lol I only paid $10 each from an online ad
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Here you go $150

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pyrex-Carbo...773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a352d58f5


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

Runningwolf said:


> Carolyn let me tell you a little secret and if you tell anyone I said it I'll deny it and make a fool out of you. Now just between us, the U.S. really screwed up using our numbering system. Back in the 70's there was a push to convert to metric and once again they blew it. We should have just bit the bullet, sucked up the pains for a few years and done it. Many people here don't realize how much easier it would make their lives or the lives of the future generation. Ok enough, remember I never said that.




Haha ya my life would be easier if a gallon was in fact 4 liters since everything comes in 4 liter jugs here!


Carolyn


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## sour_grapes (Feb 22, 2014)

Runningwolf said:


> Back in the 70's there was a push to convert to metric and once again they blew it. We should have just bit the bullet, sucked up the pains for a few years and done it.



Yes, I remember this well. The thing is, at the time, I _really_ thought we were going to do it! (Of course, I was a naive youth at the time.) Alas... But hey! We have Liberia and Myanmar, too!


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 22, 2014)

Runningwolf said:


> Here you go $150
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pyrex-Carbo...773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a352d58f5




Wow *nods and shakes head* would never pay that for a bottle!! 


Carolyn


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## Honeyblunt (Mar 2, 2014)

Props to thread title. That is all.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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