# Sterilizing Carboy and Equipment



## joshayogi (Oct 2, 2016)

Hello everyone.

I use a One Step cleaner - but I'm more than willing to take any suggestions.

I have a really stupid question.

Are you supposed to let the carboy, bottles, tools, etc dry before you use them?

It seems like if you were to let the carboy sit for as long as it would need to dry it wouldn't be sterile any longer...

Any suggestions?


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## DoctorCAD (Oct 2, 2016)

Your equipment will never be sterile.

It will be sanitized, and that is good enough.

Spray it with a k meta solution before it touches wine and it will be as good as it needs to.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 2, 2016)

I have both One Step and Star San. The sanitizing agents in each are different. Star San is great for my bottles and Carboy. It's a food grade sanitizer that, according to directions, is ok in food as long as the solution concentration directions are followed. 

So, no with that I don't wait for it to dry but it has one annoying habbit - It bubbles a lot so when I do my sanitizing rinses (By hand) I swirl it in the bottles not shake, unless I'm going wait a couple of hours before using. It seems more expensive but it takes so little of the concentrate so I think if I do the math it's too close to worry about/

OneStep also claims to be a no-rinse santiizer so the same material is going to be in/on your equipment whether wet or dry. OneStep is a powder so you have to disolve it and that can take some time unless you use very warm water for the mix.


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## garymc (Oct 2, 2016)

And when you're wondering how much to spray, keep in mind that the sulfite gas that comes out of the k meta solution will sanitize surfaces that it comes in contact with. So, you don't have to saturate every internal surface with liquid when you spray. If you spritz into a carboy, invert it and let any liquid drain out, leaving whatever mist hit part of the walls, it should be good. If you put your nose over the opening and you smell or feel the chemical burn in your sinuses, you know it's working.


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## BernardSmith (Oct 2, 2016)

Hi joshayogi. There are no stupid questions. 
One Step tends to be used more by brewers than wine makers. I think its active ingredient is hydrogen peroxide. Wine makers tend to use K-meta. It's active ingredient is sulfur dioxide. At high concentrations K-meta is a powerful sanitizer. There is no need to wait for anything to dry - because... at weaker concentrations the SO2 that K-meta produces is used to kill wild yeasts and at the same lower concentration is used to inhibit oxidation but at high concentrations the sulfur dioxide destroys mold and bacteria . Hydrogen peroxide does not need to dry either because in solution it adds nothing to beer (or wine) other than hydrogen and oxygen - the two molecules that constitute water.


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## montanaWineGuy (Oct 2, 2016)

I just put some dishwashing soap in with water and shake the hell out of it. Rinse and rinse till it no longer foams and I go with it.


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## jumby (Oct 2, 2016)

I have used One Step for years without any problems. I use it on all my tools, carboys and bottles. I just rinse and use.


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## WAC4504 (Oct 2, 2016)

Question about 1One Step no rinse cleaner, if I mix up a gallon and don't use it all, how long should it last? Reason I ask is on another site it said to dump it out, but from what I understand it uses hydrogen peroxide to sanitize, the label says it releases oxygen to sanitize when it drys on a surface, so why would you dump it out if it's still liquid, and why wouldn't you be able to dump the same solution from one carboy to another. I personally think this other site is just trying to sell more product, but thought I'd ask to be sure.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 3, 2016)

Well... After reading the other answers to the original question and doing some independent reading.... I guess I will use OneStep only for cleaning and only mix and use what I need immediately.
It's apparent not FDA approved as a Sanitizer -which perhaps is more of not being officially blessed by the agency more than a question of perfromance. 
BUT since it is essentially a glorified Peroxide with a limited shelf life once mixed... I think that I will stop using it for now. 
I have plenty of StarSan and it stores far better - especially if you use Distilled water for your solutions. 
Perhaps that's an over-reaction but none-the-less I do know for a fact that peroxide is a very perishable item and when you but it at the store it comes in dark glass or opaque containers to prolong it shelf-life. So... all my cleaning and sanitizing will be with a StarSan solution. Final note - apparently when Star-san solutions break down the solution gets hazy. OneStep - no change in appearance - it just stops working. 
K-Meta is probably just a good but I already have the Star-san so for now.... that's going to be my go to sanitizer.


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## jumby (Oct 3, 2016)

WAC4504 said:


> Question about 1One Step no rinse cleaner, if I mix up a gallon and don't use it all, how long should it last? Reason I ask is on another site it said to dump it out, but from what I understand it uses hydrogen peroxide to sanitize, the label says it releases oxygen to sanitize when it drys on a surface, so why would you dump it out if it's still liquid, and why wouldn't you be able to dump the same solution from one carboy to another. I personally think this other site is just trying to sell more product, but thought I'd ask to be sure.



I use mine for weeks. I usually mix up a gallon and store in the frig between uses. Like i said I have doing this for manyyyyy years and never had a problem. Hope I don't jinx myself!


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## DoctorCAD (Oct 3, 2016)

I only mix up enough to wash whatever I am washing.

Oh, and as to not rinsing...take a glass of your favorite wine and sprinkle a few granules of One Step in it and then drink it. Now tell me that it is no rinse.


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## stickman (Oct 3, 2016)

I totally agree with DoctorCAD, I get concerned when I hear "no rinse" with this product, I am familiar with its chemistry, if there is any active hydrogen peroxide left in the residue, it will cause a loss of free so2 in the wine. The only thing that minimizes this issue is that once the product is dissolved in water it decomposes rapidly, the half life of the pure solution is around 8hrs, and realistically less than that, depending on contaminants in your water and carboys etc. Storing the solution for more than 8hrs is therefore not recommended. To claim "no rinse" means the manufacturer is relying on how quickly the material decomposes under normal conditions of use, so any residue has to sufficiently age before contacting wine (too risky for me in my opinion). 

There are other sanitizers that work well also, but I prefer slightly acidic kmeta solutions for sanitizing as the residue is completely compatible with wine.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 4, 2016)

DoctorCAD said:


> I only mix up enough to wash whatever I am washing.
> 
> Oh, and as to not rinsing...take a glass of your favorite wine and sprinkle a few granules of One Step in it and then drink it. Now tell me that it is no rinse.



Your comparison idea is a bit flawed - OneStep will break down over time and when mixed, used and allowed to dry on equipment and in containers the peroxide is going to break down. Using your analogy one could say the same thing about K-meta - sprinkle a few grains of that in your wine glass and tell me there's no problem. BUT the same product is added to wine must all the time - after it has had a few days in the solution the undesirable flavor is gone. It is not rinsed out.

The key is not leaving quantities of the solution in containers - Drain them properly and allow them to dry - no issue. The amount of residue from a properly mixed and used cleaner/sanitizer is nil if PROPER procedures are followed. The problems come when someone doesn't follow those procedures. K-Meta 'spritzed into a container is also going to leave a 'residue' as well IF not allowed to dry and break down. When you rush things by waiting until the last minute to clean equipment or containers - that's when you can taint your wine. Not when you follow the steps properly. You leave puddles of cleaner or sanitizer in containers and use them immediately and yes you might have a problem.


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## joshayogi (Oct 4, 2016)

So KMeta (is this a nickname? If so what is it called?) is this a powder? And then I just make it a spray with water?? And do I use it just like the No Rinse cleaner? What about washing before the sanitizing? Dawn dish detergent? Can't only use KMeta right?


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## hounddawg (Oct 4, 2016)

if you plan to sterilize your carboys how do you intend to make new carboys,,, 
JUST A SIMPOLTON QUESTION FROM A POOR DUMB HILL-BILLY
Dawg


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## Johnd (Oct 4, 2016)

joshayogi said:


> So KMeta (is this a nickname? If so what is it called?) is this a powder? And then I just make it a spray with water?? And do I use it just like the No Rinse cleaner? What about washing before the sanitizing? Dawn dish detergent? Can't only use KMeta right?



KMeta, KMS, KMBS, sulfite, sulphate, SO2, all short for potassium metabisulfite. It can be used as a sanitizer by mixing 3 TBS of powder with one gallon of water, keeping it in a sealed container til use. In a spray bottle, it's very convenient. It also comes in tablet form which you must crush before trying to dissolve. 

I still use a cleanser when cleaning, but prefer one made for winemaking, B-Brite is my cleanser of choice. Clean, rinse, sanitize, then use it.


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## DoctorCAD (Oct 4, 2016)

One Step to wash and k meta to sanitize.

Don't use dishwashing soap, too many chemicals and fragrances that linger behind.


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## Floandgary (Oct 4, 2016)

joshayogi said:


> So KMeta (is this a nickname? If so what is it called?) is this a powder? And then I just make it a spray with water?? And do I use it just like the No Rinse cleaner? What about washing before the sanitizing? Dawn dish detergent? Can't only use KMeta right?



Most cleaning advice here will NOT include any soap products. Unless your equipment has been sitting a barnyard for years, hot water and elbow grease will suffice to clean as needed. NO BLEACHES either!!! Become familiar with the difference between Sterilize and Sanitize... K-Meta ,, "K" is the chemical designation for the element Potassium, and "Meta" is the shortened Metabisulfite. K-Meta is so much easier!!! Go ahead ,,, take a whiff of a properly mixed sanitizer solution (@1-2 Tbsp/gallon distilled water)!!
A good source of info http://winemakersacademy.com/potassium-metabisulfite-wine/


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## winehomie (Oct 4, 2016)

Lately I have been using a very bad 2 gallons of a homemade Vodka a FRIEND of mine tried to make, it ended up 145 proof and tasting like burned potatoes, but makes a wonderful cleaner/airlock liquid.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 4, 2016)

So if you make a solution of K-Meta to do your sanitization and you use 3 Tablespoons...
3 tablespoons = 9 teaspoons
1/4 teaspoon will treat 6 gallons of must for a sanitizing purposes or as a fermentation termination treatment (1/4tsp per 6 gallons per the package label) so
(9 teaspoons x 4)6 gallons treated = *216* 
You have enough K-meta in the wash/sanitizer solution to treat *216 gallons *of must. So just over 1/2 oz (.59oz) of your spritzing solution is enough to treat a gallon of must. In a wine bottle even a few drops of left over k-meta rinse will affect the wine if you rinse and immediately bottle without allowing time for it to drain and dry.

Spritze carefully - K-meta will break down but again like everything else use properly, follow instructions.


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## codeman (Oct 4, 2016)

If you have something larger like a large stainless tank or flex tank do you think one could use a new garden sprayer with properly diluted Star SAN and spray down the surfaces?


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## Scooter68 (Oct 4, 2016)

jumby said:


> I use mine for weeks. I usually mix up a gallon and store in the frig between uses. Like i said I have doing this for manyyyyy years and never had a problem. Hope I don't jinx myself!





codeman said:


> If you have something larger like a large stainless tank or flex tank do you think one could use a new garden sprayer with properly diluted Star SAN and spray down the surfaces?



Sure, just let it drain and dry. Read this linked PDF file - the section on Food Plant use applies directly to you question.

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/StarSanTech-HB2.pdf


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## Scooter68 (Oct 4, 2016)

Update from the makers of "One Step "

Storage time after mixing is estimated at one Week. After that the effectiveness may begin to drop off. 

For me, not working actively with my wine every week - This is a bummer. Will throw out what I have and probably stay with Star San - Much easier to mix and keep tabs on when it needs additional concentrate added or needs to be replaced.


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## hounddawg (Oct 4, 2016)

i work very hard to show i am nothing more then a poor dumb hillbilly, by choice, but i still like open grey matter like you an others. 
CHEERS my friend
i am 1/4 way thru a memorial case, i drink a glass a nite till my friend has only one bottle left then i will sneak into the grave yard to burry his bottle unopened with him, he passed last week, he was in a one vehicle accident and broke his neck he made it thru both surgery's and was believed to heal completely but god call my friend on, till then , (burry his bottle) i will only do up keep on my winery, he was the only high up politician that always put the poor first, and the rich last, i will always miss Dale ,, MAY GOD REST HIS SOUL, AMEN,, 
Dawg 







Scooter68 said:


> Update from the makers of "One Step "
> 
> Storage time after mixing is estimated at one Week. After that the effectiveness may begin to drop off.
> 
> For me, not working actively with my wine every week - This is a bummer. Will throw out what I have and probably stay with Star San - Much easier to mix and keep tabs on when it needs additional concentrate added or needs to be replaced.


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## drainsurgeon (Oct 4, 2016)

I'm with jumby on this one. I have used one-step for years for cleaning AND sanitizing with no problems. It's what the local wine shop recommended when I started this hobby some 7 years ago. I only use K-meta when racking to keep the bugs out of my wine. Werks for me!


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## joshayogi (Oct 6, 2016)

To keep bugs out during racking? Can you elaborate?


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## drainsurgeon (Oct 7, 2016)

joshayogi said:


> To keep bugs out during racking? Can you elaborate?



Sure, I add 1/4 tsp of k-meta at second racking (when ferment is done) and every other racking or every 3 months after that until bottling.

After reading it here 100 times it kind of sinks in.


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## cintipam (Oct 7, 2016)

I think when he said keep bugs out he meant stopping bacteria etc from growing in the must. It has no effect at all on the gnats that are drawn to fermentation.

Pam in cinti


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## Partenopei (Oct 7, 2016)

How would you guys go about sanitizing a wood press? My father normally just hoses it down but I was wondering what you guys would suggest. 

He also uses a bit of bleach when cleaning the carboys which I've already gathered from reading is actually a big NO NO.

Honestly, the wine he made always came out pretty good using very rudimentary techniques except for the past few years so I'm trying to be a bit more careful about everything this year. 

Thanks for your help and I'm excited to have found this place!


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## cmason1957 (Oct 8, 2016)

I just spritz mine with my normal sanitizing solution. Maybe a bit heavy on the spritz, then give it some time to work and kill anything, ready to go. Never have problems.


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## TXWineDuo (Oct 8, 2016)

@Partenopei we use iodophor on our wood press. You mix with water and it sanitizes in a few minutes then air dry.
https://www.amazon.com/National-Chemicals-BTF-Iodophor-Sanitizer/dp/B00I2WGKVQ


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## drainsurgeon (Oct 9, 2016)

cintipam said:


> I think when he said keep bugs out he meant stopping bacteria etc from growing in the must. It has no effect at all on the gnats that are drawn to fermentation.
> 
> Pam in cinti



Yes, Pam is correct. Didn't mean to mislead on the bugs thing.

I spray down my carboys with Raid for the real bugs.  (JK)


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## Partenopei (Oct 19, 2016)

Thanks for the replies! I picked up One step at the store and liked it so much I ordered 5 lbs of it online


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## Mismost (Oct 19, 2016)

stickman said:


> I totally agree with DoctorCAD, I get concerned when I hear "no rinse" with this product, I am familiar with its chemistry, if there is any active hydrogen peroxide left in the residue, it will cause a loss of free so2 in the wine. The only thing that minimizes this issue is that once the product is dissolved in water it decomposes rapidly, the half life of the pure solution is around 8hrs, and realistically less than that, depending on contaminants in your water and carboys etc. Storing the solution for more than 8hrs is therefore not recommended. To claim "no rinse" means the manufacturer is relying on how quickly the material decomposes under normal conditions of use, so any residue has to sufficiently age before contacting wine (too risky for me in my opinion).
> 
> There are other sanitizers that work well also, but I prefer slightly acidic kmeta solutions for sanitizing as the residue is completely compatible with wine.



I hate One Step because for me One Step caused a dozen more steps. I used this stuff in my bottle washer because it was "no rinse". Now, it did do a good job of cleaning the bottles and I did not rinse. BUT, I stacked those bottles upside down in the cases to dry. Fast forward to bottling day a couple of weeks later, when I pull out those bottles, there was a white film on the inside. And that stuff was tough as nails, had to scrub it out with a brush....had to throw several bottles away because I could not get the film off. Never used that stuff again.

In all fairness to One Step, this problem may have something to do with my well water which has a lot of calcium in it....maybe that reacted and bonded with the One Step. But, if you wind up rinsing and scrubbing....that ain't one step...it's a PITA!

I use OxiClean to clean and Star San to sanitize...two steps, but faster in the long run.


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## Partenopei (Oct 19, 2016)

Thanks for the warning. I wound up just rinsing everything anyway as a precaution and will definitely continue to do so now!


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## Scooter68 (Oct 19, 2016)

I would consider the well water as the culprit in the white film issue. Even Star-San states that use of distilled water results in a longer lasting mix. 

My wife insists on well water for her coffee and drinking use. So about every 8-12 weeks I get to clean the coffee maker (1Cup unit) and remove all the mineral build up and it is thick. 

So it's most likely that your well water left that film as the minerals precipitated out in reaction with One Step. You should check with any other sanitizer maker before you commit to a large purchase of it or any for that matter. It may be cheaper and more effective to used Wallyworld Distilled water at less than $1.00 a gallon and avoid those issues.


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