# 5 gal fermentation bucket



## murray

So I'm making a batch of persimmon wine and I've made several batches the old southern country way ( putting mashed fruit in carboy add 12 lbs of melted sugar put a package of fleshmans yeast .. activated with hot water and topping off carboy with water and air locking ... then leave alone till no more bubbles are present... now with that bing said I'm trying the method with a primary .... (bought up a bunch of bottles of chemicals and a hydrometer) my 1 gal recipe calls for 3 lbs of persimmon pulp and 7 pts of water witch is fine but all I have is a five gal bucket and a five gal carboy so I'm taking the recipe times 5 to suit my carboy my real question is do I really need all that water in the primary because if that's the case its over five gal


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## pjd

You need a bigger bucket!


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## salcoco

first thing I would do is get a bigger primary fermenter one in the 10 or 20 gallon range. granted you can add less water to the present recipe to match your 5 gallon bucket but during fermentation the must will rise above the edge of the bucket all over the floor. the fruit will also release liquid plus the water you add will eventually result in five gallons. if you do not want to purchase another fermenter or you cannot wait make only a 3 gallon batch.


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## murray

OK thanks ! I had the pulp frozen and I left about 4-5 inches from the top ... my plan is to pour the must into a sanitized fermentation bag in to another sanitized bucket then in to the carboy and top off with water ...


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## murray

This is not fermenting pleas help I've followed this to a T and I see no progress and its saying 3 days and put in secondary any thoughts .... maybe bad yeast ? What do I do pleas help I pulled a lot of strings to gain my pulp


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## CBell

What yeast are you using? What temp are you fermenting at?


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## murray

Right around 70- 73 I'm using lavlin k1-v1116


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## murray

Oh I'm free king out I wouldn't be as worried but its in my primary I'd hate to have to throw this must out


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## jpsmithny

Did you rehydrate the yeast? Use two pints water.
Use warm water, no higher than 106 degrees and add a tablespoon of sugar. 

That should get going pretty quick and then add that to your must.


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## murray

Yes I used warm lime juice and a spoon of sugar ... should I assume. That the yeast is dead it got a little foamy but not like I have seen bread yeast foam (that's all I've ever used) ?should i try another packet of lavlin in yeast? This is the first time I've messed with wine yeast.


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## DoctorCAD

What was your starting SG?

What is it today?

Tha's the only thing you need to be concerned with at this point.


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## murray

SG two days ago was 1.140 I'll have to check tonight ... will I screw it up if I go ahead and strain my pulp and transfer to my secondary .that way ill have the corect amount of water ...the try adding a new pack of yeast mixed with warm water and a little nutrient ? Thanks !


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## murray

So I have done two things so far since I have got home one take a reading with the thick pulp and it has gone from 1.140 to 1.120..... so I strained a bit of it to see what the reading would be and the hydrometer floated to the bubble !!!! I've got to do something at this point ...I'm thinking strain all my must put it in the carboy and fill with water then take another reading and then restart my yeast ??? Please help !!


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## RegionRat

Is this sitting in a carboy or a bucket?

What is the volume of must you have?

What is the current sg?

Did you say you used lime juice to rehydrate your yeast?

RR


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## murray

Yes it is a bucket my secondary is a 5 gal glass carboy..volume of must ? I have about 4.5 gallons of pulp,sugar ,some water and all other ingredients except Camden tablets. Yes I started the yeast with warm lime juice and a few tspns of sugar. 
With the pulp the current SG is 1.120, the little amount that I did strain out to take a reading is unmeasurable on the hydrometer.... the bubble end of the hydrometer is floating.


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## RegionRat

murray said:


> Yes it is a bucket my secondary is a 5 gal glass carboy..volume of must ? I have about 4.5 gallons of pulp,sugar ,some water and all other ingredients except Camden tablets. Yes I started the yeast with warm lime juice and a few tspns of sugar.
> With the pulp the current SG is 1.120, the little amount that I did strain out to take a reading is unmeasurable on the hydrometer.... the bubble end of the hydrometer is floating.



When I was starting out I did a Cranberry that I ground up the berries to make the must. I had to take a sample and run it through a coffee filter to get rid of the solids to get a sg reading.

I dont understand why you used lime juice. I am thinking using it killed the yeast. 

Your sugar is fine. A little high, but it is okay.

Pour it back into your bucket if it is in the carboy. Crush 4 campton and put them in the must.

The next day do the following;

Make a new starter. Couple Tbls sugar, 1/4 tsp nutrient (if you have it, if not no biggie) and cup luke warm water. Sprinkle the yeast on top and do not stir. Watch for the foam to let u know it is active and pour it into your must.

Put the lid on but do not snap it down. It needs the oxygen. Try to keep it in the 65 to 75deg range.When you see signs of fermentation stir it hard twice a day. Dont worry too much about getting sg readings for the first few days. As long as you see it bubbling you are okay.

RR


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## murray

Thank you so much I will do just that !! This is the method the wine shop have me ... I figured wine yeast needed acid to spawn so I thought lime juice was close to orange .. lesson learned !!! Thank you so much !!


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## RegionRat

No problem. 

Most people when using fruit freeze it solid. Freezing it allows the ice crystals to break down the fruit. Then let it thaw then put it in strainer bags. Doing it this way you can extract all the fruit has to offer. 

I use paint strainer bags. You can pick them up in the paint department at Lowes or Home depot. They come 3 in a package and are fairly inexpensive and sturdy. Pick up a 5 gal bucket also. Look at the bottom and make sure it is food grade. 

RR


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## wood1954

that seems like a really weird way to make wine. It's like you are rotting the fruit , then pasteurizing it and then fermenting it. Let us know how it turns out.


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## murray

Do I need to strain that bucket of pulp or do I put it in secondary carboy ?


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## jamesngalveston

it looks like by rotting the fruit, its breaking down, like you would have added pectin enzyme..
not sure why you cook it at 150 degrees, and then add more water and sugar...
and i would not put the wine in primary under air lock.]
just saying.
where did you get that recipe.


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## murray

I got it from a old man running a hardware store selling wine suplys ... 
Any way to strain or not to strain ... ?


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## RegionRat

If I were you I would spend a little time reading a few of the threads on this forum. Try searching for a recipe of what you are trying to make. See how others have made out. Then assemble all the ingredients and post on here what your intentions are before you do any thing. See what people have to say then go from there.

As for, 'old man running a hardware store selling wine suplys.' I am sure he is telling you to do thing the way he was taught X years ago. I am sure there will be alcohol in the finished product and it may or may not taste like wine. I am not saying this is a bad thing if that is what you are after. But if you want to make good quality wine then you will have to realize things have changed a little since he was taught.

First off lets see if we can get it to ferment. If so then yes I would pour the must into a strainer bag before the sg gets too low. As soon as you have a good strong ferment going I would stretch a strainer bag over a 5 gal bucket and just pour everything into it and then tie it shut and drop it in the fermenter. Make sure you sanitize everything. 


RR


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## murray

Regionrat you seem to know quite habit ... thank you so much !! I really would like a smooth high alcohol good tasting wine at some point, and be able to reproduce time after time ... I don't mind the labor I just need a simple method... thank you !!!


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## murray

Quite * * a bit ... dang phone .....


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## jamesngalveston

this may not be the best answer, but it is mine.
when i started out, I tried recipes from all over.
I found one that I really liked, and fit to my time frame of my patience.....i substitue the fruit and qty of fruit only, and use the same of everything else. It may not be the best way, but it has certainly given me 100s of bottles of wine. I consider good...
the only time i change things is when i make a port.


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## murray

OK thanks ... 
Now it has Ben fermintig for two days when should I put it in my carboy ? I'm not sure how to strain it ether the pulp is so so fine ... what's the best way to sanitize a straining bag?


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## murray

soo... I srrained my pulp I got almost 3 gal of liquid out ... I tried to take a reading but it still rises to top of liquid ..so im going to go ahead and put it the carboy and add water till I reach a reading that I need then fill the rest with beads to get it to top off ... we'll see how this turns out ............. is it possible for the yeast to move through a fine straining bag ?


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## RegionRat

try to strain a sample through a coffee filter or a tea towel to get sg. Yes yeast will make it through the filter bag.

RR


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## murray

its completely strained into a nice syrup the hydrometer has gone down a bit but its still unreadable ... this is why im going to put it in the carboy and ad water


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## RegionRat

murray said:


> its completely strained into a nice syrup the hydrometer has gone down a bit but its still unreadable ... this is why im going to put it in the carboy and ad water



Go for it!! 

RR


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## murray

thanks man! I was waiting on you  btw I didn't realize you were a Hoosier too


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## RegionRat

murray said:


> thanks man! I was waiting on you  btw I didn't realize you were a Hoosier too



Np, as fermentation winds down it should start to clear. Keep en eye on the airlock. When it slows down to a bubble every 30 sec or so take an sg reading. You are looking for it to drop at or bellow 1.000 and stay there for 3 days in a row. When that happens it is there time to rack again and stabilize. Do you have Potassium metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate?

Yes I live in Whiting. Where are you located?

RR


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## murray

im at the other end of the state .. a little town you probably never herd of Loogootee .... no I do not have ether but I can obtain it from the old man at the hardware store ...........


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## murray

from the ol man 
ascorbic acid 
glycerine
sparkolloid powder
tannin
fermax yeast nutrient
campden tablets

so your saying I need two more chemicals right


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## murray

oh I guess the campden tabs are Potassium metabisulfite.. guess I should have resurched a lil further


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## murray

a little more recurch says that ascorbic acid has salts and there called Potassium Sorbate... right ? .. now im getting confused ...


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## RegionRat

Yes you will need them. Potassium metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate. If he has them get both. If not we can show you where to get the m online. You can use campton tabs but most people on here use the powdered stuff. You have a few day to pick that stuff up. It is also good you have sparkaloid, you will need that soon also.

You are getting there!

RR


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## murray

thanks ! regionrat
your my life line !
but im confused with the sorbate is it not ascorbic acid ? And if so do I need to go buy it ?


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## RegionRat

murray said:


> thanks ! regionrat
> your my life line !
> but im confused with the sorbate is it not ascorbic acid ? And if so do I need to go buy it ?


No worries..

Ascorbic acid is not sorbate. Yes you will need some....



RR


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## Julie

murray said:


> thanks ! regionrat
> your my life line !
> but im confused with the sorbate is it not ascorbic acid ? And if so do I need to go buy it ?



No it is not ascorbic acid, sorbate is used after fermentation and if you are wanting to backsweeten.


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## murray

Finally after being able to put water in Carboy I have been able to take an accurate reading and the SG is 1.130. Do I need to add more sugar or is it ok where it is at and I should leave it for a while?


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## RegionRat

murray said:


> Finally after being able to put water in Carboy I have been able to take an accurate reading and the SG is 1.130. Do I need to add more sugar or is it ok where it is at and I should leave it for a while?



1.130 is high are you sure it is not 1.013?. If it really is 1.130 and ferments dry you will have a little over 16% ABV. Re check it and if it is that high I would put it back in bucket and let it ferment a few more days with lid just placed on top. Stir it hard couple times day. Then check sg and see it it goes down.Then you know it is really fermenting.

RR


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## murray

Yea that's what I got ... that's what the hydrometer says ... it wouldent be dish a issue but I don't think it will fit in the bucket ... I'm totaly not trying to argue at all ... this is just a question but can I ask why put it back in bucket ? My yeast is only going to tolerate 12-14% alcohol from what I have Ben told .. so yes 16 ½ % is what I'm getting ... I do have a few gallon jugs that I have got stoppers and extra air locks if need be ..


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## murray

Not dish ... such **** dang phone ! Sorry


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## murray

I really know its fermenting because I have silk like bubbles rising up through the carboy and the air lock bubbles once every 2-3 seconds


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## RegionRat

murray said:


> Yea that's what I got ... that's what the hydrometer says ... it wouldent be dish a issue but I don't think it will fit in the bucket ... I'm totaly not trying to argue at all ... this is just a question but can I ask why put it back in bucket ? My yeast is only going to tolerate 12-14% alcohol from what I have Ben told .. so yes 16 ½ % is what I'm getting ... I do have a few gallon jugs that I have got stoppers and extra air locks if need be ..



No arguing here. Just trying to get this for you. The reason you need to put it back in the bucket is there is A LOT of work the yeast needs to do if your sg is that high. At least a week of fermenting I would guess. It needs the oxygen to do its work. Dont worry if your yeast doesnt handle that high of ABV. You will just have a little residual sugar when it stops fermenting.

Slow down this stuff takes time.

What kind of yeast are you using?


RR


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## murray

Sorry ... Im using lavlin km-v1116


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## murray

K1-v1116* sorry


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## murray

This is what I got going


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## murray

Same picture just closer


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## RegionRat

okay, 1116 is good. It can handle up to 18%. The carboy on the left looks like it is going. If you leave it in there it will not get the oxygen it needs to ferment. If you want to leave it in there at least take off the airlock. Leave the airlock off till you get to 1.010 And you stand the chance of it bubbling up through the airlock. I would pour it into primary bucket.


RR


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## murray

OK thank you !!


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## murray

im really new with this wine making ... why dose it need oxygen ? when dose it go the other way and need protected from oxygen? im just trying to wrap my head around it ...


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## RegionRat

Check your in box


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## chris231

Wow sounds like somebody's making this tough. Lol


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## chris231

Murray here's you a 5 gal recipe. 10lbs of fruit 9lbs of sugar. 5 Camden tablets, 5 tsp. of yeast nutrients, 3 tsp. Pectin enzyme


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## chris231

Juice fruit put pulp and juice in 5 gal bucket. Put lid on bucket with airlock. Let sit for 7 days. Then strain juice off into another 5 gal. Bucket. Add the other ingredients then fill bucket to top with water. Stir with wood spoon (never use metal why I don't know but every time I do it messes up) put lid on bucket let it thump.


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## kfrinkle

Be forewarned, with presimmon you are going to lose a decent amount of wine to sediment. There is another persimmon thread in this subforum, you might want to read through it:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f45/persimmon-wine-variations-33510/

I have been making persimmon wine for a few years, and it is by far one of the nastiest, messiest and lowest yield fruit wines I have made. I started with 15 gallons last year, ended up with about 9 at the end of it.


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## murray

Thanks , I've got it going now its almost done I think ... it has Ben racked and starting to clear now..has a good rest to it already iv lost about a gallon and a half dee to sediment.. bit that's just part of it...


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