# Pruning help



## Rob fender (Nov 27, 2018)

Hello everyone, my names Rob and I'm from Norfolk in the UK

I've moved house and I have a garden with about 25 grapevines. As it's the dormant period I've cut off this years wood back to a couple of buds but I'm not sure if I've done right or what my direction of pruning should be as all the vines are untrained.

All the vines are wine varieties but when I've looked at all the methods of pruning it's a complete mine field. Help please..


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## Masbustelo (Nov 27, 2018)

Can you take a picture or two of what they look like after you have pruned them? Don't prune anymore.


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## KevinL (Nov 27, 2018)

I also think it would be good to know what kind of grapes you have here, as well as what your current trellis set up is. It's hard to tell things like height from pictures. I think I have a general idea. These also look to be just getting done with their first or second leaf?

Did you plant them or were they already on the property when you purchased it?

I'm sure there are other questions that need to be asked, but I'm pretty confident with enough information the good folks here will be able to guide you in the right direction. Welcome to the forum!


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## Rob fender (Nov 28, 2018)

Hi, the pictures that have been uploaded of just 2 of the vines and are after I've pruned. The trellis is 16" from ground to first wire then 8" to the next wire of which there are 4. There is approx 32" horizontal gap between vines. A lot of the variety names have faded on the name tags and unreadable but the ones that can be read are, 
booskoop glory, vitus spulga, regent, csbernet sauvingon, gamay, pinot blanc, phoenix.
I moved into the property this may and the vines fruited to give only 5kg of grapes. The ages of the vines also look widely different as some look about 10 years old whilst others perhaps only 4 or 5.


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## balatonwine (Nov 28, 2018)

First, since you seem to have vinifera vines, a vertical shoot positioning trellis is a good idea. But 16" from the ground for the first wire is too low for use by the vines. Unless you like to harvest on your knees. I would remove it, or just use it to attach the drip irrigation pipe to get it off the ground.

Second, you are not pruning enough. Vines need radical pruning. It is not a bush. When you are done, the vines should only have two canes (and ideally two renewal spurs, but your vines can not provide spurs this year, so don't worry about those yet). When you are done pruning, and tieing your vines to the wires, the vine should look like a "T", with one trunk and two canes (one on each side).

Third, these are poorly maintained vines. You have a real challenge here to get them into a proper training system. Some may need to be headed (cut off completely just below the caning wire) and let to regrow from there (you will probably lose a years production from those vines).

Finally, I would wait a month or two before pruning. Simply dropping leaves does not mean full dormancy is achieved. Let the canes frost harden before pruning.

Also seem my topic thread on pruning difficult vines:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/how-would-you-trim-it.65118/

This is one example of pruning option for one of the vines (red lines are some suggested cut options -- the vine is really hard to see in the photo, what are wires and shadows of wires, and canes seem to be crossing, so not intended to be exact which canes to cut -- rather the take home message to leave just one trunk and cane on each side):


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## Rob fender (Nov 28, 2018)

Hi Balatonwine, a big thank you for taking your time to help. Some great information and I am grateful.

I will leave any further pruning until the frosts and prune to just 2 canes, raise the bottom wire support and try for a tee shape. I'm not quite sure what vinifera vines are but I will Google it and try to improve my knowledge generally on growing vines..
Thanks again.


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## Johnd (Nov 28, 2018)

@balatonwine is leading your vine training down the path to be in the configuration depicted below, where you ultimately have a vertical trunk, horizontal cordons, with canes that emerge vertically. The right side, which is shown before pruning, is normally left alone until late winter / early spring, prior to bud break. After frost danger and your spring pruning the vine should look like the left side. If you follow his cuts and tie-downs, you'll end up with the basic T shape and begin to select which buds to allow to become canes in Spring '19. By the Spring '20, if you've made the right decisions, your vines could look very similar to the depiction below.


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## Rob fender (Nov 28, 2018)

Thanks Johnd, understood but I'm surprised the renewal spur spring pruning that's shown on the left cordon are so short as I'd of thought pruning canes to a couple of buds would be a couple of inches long?


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## Johnd (Nov 28, 2018)

Rob fender said:


> Thanks Johnd, understood but I'm surprised the renewal spur spring pruning that's shown on the left cordon are so short as I'd of thought pruning canes to a couple of buds would be a couple of inches long?



I'm not personally a grape grower, but have seen the pruning process in action during the spring on numerous occasions at multiple vineyards in Napa, and the "renewal spur" is very short on a young vine. The older the vine gets, the longer and more gnarly the stubs become. Look at the old boy below and see how far up from the cordon you have to go to get to the two buds left on last years canes is.


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## Rob fender (Nov 28, 2018)

Good picture Johnd, that's an old looking vine. Mine have got some catching up if I ever manage to get them to resemble the required shape.
Patience I suppose....


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## Johnd (Nov 28, 2018)

Rob fender said:


> Good picture Johnd, that's an old looking vine. Mine have got some catching up if I ever manage to get them to resemble the required shape.
> Patience I suppose....



Yup, same thing you need to make wine, patience. Once you’ve got the base structure and keep the suckers / unwanted growth off of the vines, all of the growth directed through the trunk and cordons, they’ll plump up and make bark for you.


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## balatonwine (Dec 14, 2018)

Johnd said:


> @balatonwine is leading your vine training down the path to be in the configuration depicted below, where you ultimately have a vertical trunk, horizontal cordons, with canes that emerge vertically.
> 
> View attachment 52343



Wrong. 

I mentioned renewal spurs. I was not suggesting cordons, but a cane pruning system (see below). But Cordon is also an option.


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