# Saving grape skins



## x_diver (Oct 7, 2018)

I am about to press my merlot grapes as primary is about done. Was wondering if I could save the skins, freeze them, and then use them again when I get South American juice buckets in the spring. Thought?


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## TOMMARIANI22 (Oct 7, 2018)

No they will oxidize


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## MB wino (Oct 7, 2018)

I do it every year. It definitely adds something, similar in concept to second run wines. I have the best luck if I don’t press too hard


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## Ajmassa (Oct 7, 2018)

TOMMARIANI22 said:


> No they will oxidize



Nothings oxidizing while frozen- as @x_diver specified. 
People freeze their skins and re-use often. When thawed and added to fresh juice or kits- the yeast and malo(if added) can pick right back up where they left off, taking over the ferment of the juice. 
If added to a later kit you wouldn’t want to mess with the acid balance via MLf. But word on the street is kit malic acid is man made and not capable of malolactic conversion from standard bacteria inoculation. Meaning- your good to go to reuse em.


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## Johnd (Oct 7, 2018)

I’ve also had wonderful results using frozen skins, most notably when adding them to premium kits, really seems to beef up the body and the nose.


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## x_diver (Oct 7, 2018)

Thanks everyone. I am going to freeze them and try it in the spring.


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## pgentile (Oct 7, 2018)

Yes , save them freeze them. It will improve your SA juice. Will be freezing my zin skins after press next week.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 8, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> If added to a later kit you wouldn’t want to mess with the acid balance via MLf. But word on the street is kit malic acid is man made and not capable of malolactic conversion from standard bacteria inoculation. Meaning- your good to go to reuse em.



I don't know a lot about this, but I am skeptical about that conclusion. There are two versions (enantiomers) malic acid, "left-handed" and "right-handed." Biological sources would have only one of these enantiomers, but I think synthetic versions would likely have both, in equal measure (termed a "racemic mixture"). So, even for a synthetic source of malic, the MLF buggies would be able to eat HALF the malic. I should think that would still be enough to screw up your wine...


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## Ajmassa (Oct 8, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> I don't know a lot about this, but I am skeptical about that conclusion. There are two versions (enantiomers) malic acid, "left-handed" and "right-handed." Biological sources would have only one of these enantiomers, but I think synthetic versions would likely have both, in equal measure (termed a "racemic mixture"). So, even for a synthetic source of malic, the MLF buggies would be able to eat HALF the malic. I should think that would still be enough to screw up your wine...



Can’t argue with chemistry facts. But That’s why I said “word on the street”. Basing that off of just one instance of frozen yeast and malo filled skins added to a kit. Performed by Johnd. Where the chroma tests showed no malic conversion throughout.


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## Ignoble Grape (Oct 8, 2018)

Oh man... I wish I'd read this thread 1 week ago. **face-plam** Oh those lovely skins...


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 8, 2018)

Johnd said:


> I’ve also had wonderful results using frozen skins, most notably when adding them to premium kits, really seems to beef up the body and the nose.



Did you have MLB on those skins? I'm pressing today and have a Bourbon Barrel Zin kit waiting in the wings. Wasn't going to use my spent skins because they've been inoculated w/ MLB.


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## Johnd (Oct 8, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Did you have MLB on those skins? I'm pressing today and have a Bourbon Barrel Zin kit waiting in the wings. Wasn't going to use my spent skins because they've been inoculated w/ MLB.



As you know, I co-inoculate, so these skins were certainly laden with MLB. Don't use sorbate, so that wasn't a concern. As chromotography testing was done on the grape batches, this kit / skin batch was tested right along side the others, MLF never completed, the malic spot shined like the sun. I cannot tell you why, just that it didn't. Maybe @sour_grapes theory about only half of the malic in the kit being consumed is the culprit. The wine came out just fine, went through barrel aging and is in bottle now. I'll dig around on here and see if I can locate the posts associated with the effort............


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## Johnd (Oct 8, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Did you have MLB on those skins? I'm pressing today and have a Bourbon Barrel Zin kit waiting in the wings. Wasn't going to use my spent skins because they've been inoculated w/ MLB.



Jim, it was the Bravado, in the thread below, post #57 where the chromo results had the kit wine included.........

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/southern-crush-day.55072/page-3


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## FTC Wines (Oct 8, 2018)

I too save our skins in the freezer for future use. I do MLF on our buckets, almost co, I add MLF as I transfer from primary to secondary at SG 1.000 ish. But I only do the MLF on real grapes after we press and put the must into carboys. Been doing this for years with good results. Roy


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## Ajmassa (Oct 8, 2018)

@Johnd when you thawed those skins that you added to the Bravado- did you innoculate yeast again or let the existing yeast do the job?


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## FTC Wines (Oct 8, 2018)

Not to jump in, but, I added new yeast. Roy


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## Johnd (Oct 9, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> @Johnd when you thawed those skins that you added to the Bravado- did you innoculate yeast again or let the existing yeast do the job?



Just put the skins in, no new yeast, off to the races.............


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## NorCal (Oct 9, 2018)

For the first time, I saved about 4 gallons of Petit Verdot must. I saved just in case I did one last project this season...some late harvest Petite Syrah or Cab Franc.


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## Slappy (Oct 11, 2018)

So the malolactic bacteria survive freezing? If so I'm definitely saving skins next vintage as I'll be doing at least 3 different reds that ripen at different times. If I could add a bucket of frozen skins and get malo happening I'll save $100


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## FTC Wines (Oct 11, 2018)

FYI, I saved 2 gallons of Petite Syrah skins. Then pressed our 4 lugs of Cab grapes which the skins literally filled a 5 gal bucket packed. Threw those out, No more room in freezer. Roy


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## Bts (Oct 12, 2018)

Slappy said:


> So the malolactic bacteria survive freezing?



From the info sheet on VP41 MLF bacteria, it is prepared by freeze drying and the storage instructions say "This product can be stored for 18 months at 4°C/40°F or 36 months at -18°C/O°F in original sealed packaging." so they're tough little buggers with regard to cold.


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## jpwatkins9 (Oct 14, 2018)

I have about a gallon of Cabernet Sauvignon skins frozen from August when we picked them and used for the primary fermentation. Plan to use them agin in a kit as soon as I have an empty carboy. Have done this a couple of times no problems.


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## askins3097 (Oct 19, 2018)

I put 12 quart sized freezer bags of my Cab grape skins today in my chest freezer after I pressed. I figure I’ll add three bags to one 6 gallon juice pal when I get Chilean juice in the spring time. I’m going to save a couple bags to add to my blueberry wine next year too. No sense in wasting it.


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