# Homemade wine taste



## jimfenster (Oct 8, 2011)

I've tasted many home made wines that friends have made. I really love wine but I've found that home made wines all share a certain taste or quality that most commercial bottles do not. I can't seem to put my finger on it. But for the large majority, they were not very good. All i know simply get the juice or crush the grapes, let it ferment and then transfer. THat's pretty much it. 
I am on a quest to learn about this and through trial and error, try and make a bottle of wine that I would love to drink! 
I bot a 16l grand cru Amarone kit from RJ spagnol to start and let it age and also bot an amarone vinifeira kit that i can perhaps sample earlier. I started with the kits since i read that they are more difficult to screw up. 
But do people here have this experience of homemade wine having this strange taste relative to commercial wine? and if so, how to avoid it?

Thanks,

Jim


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## WinoOutWest (Oct 8, 2011)

Jim,
I agree with the home made taste you refer to.
I started my home made wine quest almost 2 years ago. I come from years of drinking commercial wines and a fair number of higher end red wines. My I sought out through this board a local wino who was willing to sell/share/taste a kit wine that was one of the more expensive kits and had been aged for at least a year or two. I found such a guy who had me over and allowed me to taste some of his aged wines and I was very impressed so I started making wine at home. FWIW here's what I've learned in 2 years:


After playing with a mixture of cheaper (so I could drink them earlier) and expensive kits, I only make the higher end kits now.
Whites are yummy relatively early.
my reds start tasting "okay" after 6 months
my reds start tasting really good after a year in the bottle which is where I am starting to enjoy now. Many that are tasting my 18 month old home made wines are quite surprised they are home made. I still drink commercial wines but humbly submit that my homemade plonk is better than many of the sub $20 I try commercially
I add additional oak to most of the reds
In order to build my aged wines I am making lots and sealing at least half the batch for a minimum of a year and will drink the rest of the kit over that year.

Also, fyi: I have made pretty much exclusively RJ Spagnols product as the factory store is minutes from my office.
Enjoy the process!
Cheers!
Darren


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## Larryh86GT (Oct 8, 2011)

Sorry, I can't help you. It might be something I don't even notice. The only taste I've noticed to date is a good one. Nothing off wise.


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2011)

Interesting posts, Jim and Darren. I agree with much of what you say here and I would say that the points listed by Darren would be agreed to by most wine makers. If I disagree with anything, it would be Jim's statement that kits are hard to screw up. I find that kind of easy! 

I think the "difference" that many people talk about is really the "mouth feel" from homemade kit wines. What I have done as a matter of course is to add white raisins to some of my white wines (i.e. those that I want to be a little bolder) and red raisins to all of my red wines, if a grape pack or skins are not included and occasionally even if one is included. There are some artificial ways to achieve more mouth (by adding tannin or glycerin) but I do not use them to any great degree. I have experimented with glycerin and it does give more "mouth" but I have not made that part of my MO.

I was raised on homemade wine so it is the store bought wine that tastes "different" (not better or worse) to me. I will say that the wine that I have been making with the above alterations is very well received by friends and family and I have no reason to doubt their sincerity. One thing I do like better is the lower level of sulfites. Indeed, the wine that I am making is more reminiscent of the wines I drink in Italy, which have a lower sulfite level.


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## Wade E (Oct 8, 2011)

I have had much of both and can say I know what you are referring to. Ive had many a home wine that was nasty and IMO undrinkable but then there were a few that were way better the commercial.


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## jimfenster (Oct 8, 2011)

very interesting posts thanks alot for the responses. 
Normally i find homemade wines to be a bit thin and light. I've only seen a dark red one once and it was pretty nasty.. And there is something about the texture that is different. 
Also i was drinking a young malbec someone had done..It just didn't taste like a malbec to me for some reason. Even the way it looked wasn't great. A tiny bit cloudy..I had an Argentinian Malbec last night that Id bought and it was dark purple! delicious wine..But this homemade one was very light almost like a rosee.

Anyways, Im givin it a shot and am looking forward to learning the craft... On the RJ spagnol chart they had numbers for body and stuff. The wine with the most body was the Amarone and the Brunello. So I got the Grand Cru 16l amarone and the Grand cru International Brunello 12l. Are those good choices? Should I have gotten higher end one? So should I just follow the instructions to the letter and not do anything differently? 

Thanks!

Jim


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## tonyt (Oct 8, 2011)

I find that what is referred to as kit taste is a very personal thing. Some people (my wife) can't taste it at all. Some of us (me) aren't bothered by it after 9 - 12 months aging. Others (my sister and son) are sensitive to it in all kit wines regardless of age. That has been my experience.


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## Rocky (Oct 8, 2011)

Jim, you probably got the Cru Select Amarone 16L and the Grand Cru International 12L. The Grand Cru kits are 10L. You should have a grape skin pack with the GCI 12L kit, but apparently not with the CS 16L kit, which seems strange. I have made a 16L Amarone to which I added 1 lb of red raisins. I just bottled it yesterday after it had been in a carboy for 6 months and it tastes really good now. In about a year it will be much better and in 2 years, it should be spectacular.

BTW, I am very high on the RJ Spagnols line. I think overall they are one of the very best.


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## Sirs (Oct 8, 2011)

well for me the odd taste is from the yeast used because I've tasted wines make with wild and commercial yeast from same person and thats the only difference I've tasted,never made a kit myself always real fruit or fresh grapes never had ones already crushed or had anythnig done to them


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## CowboyPhil (Oct 9, 2011)

I think that the taste you are tasting is Ethanol, a lot of homemade wine, at least in my hometown in Mississippi, followed the rules that after fermentation was complete the wine was ready to sulfite, clear and drink, usually within 6 weeks of starting the wine. "NEW" wine although drinkable, doesn't have the depth or quality of aged wine. Have you ever had any that you know had been aged at least 6 months. Some of the depth and quality will start to show with time.


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## mmadmikes1 (Oct 9, 2011)

I am guilty when I first started making wine of allowing oxidation to happen. That taste is not good and I have tasted a lot of home made wines from a lot of people who want my opinion of their wine. It is real common. I dumped 6 gallons of Red Zin this year because I was not paying attention to the wine room and the top popped off and oxidation has happened.


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## Dugger (Oct 9, 2011)

Rocky said:


> Jim, you probably got the Cru Select Amarone 16L and the Grand Cru International 12L. The Grand Cru kits are 10L. You should have a grape skin pack with the GCI 12L kit, but apparently not with the CS 16L kit, which seems strange. I have made a 16L Amarone to which I added 1 lb of red raisins....
> 
> BTW, I am very high on the RJ Spagnols line. I think overall they are one of the very best.



The Cru Select kit should come with a package of raisins to add. It's probably under the juice bag so you have to look for it, unless they have changed this kit; it'd been a while since I made it.


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## jimfenster (Oct 11, 2011)

I got the vinifero Amarone kit a month ago to make a kit that I could potentially drink early while I make the other two batches. I am hoping to learn about the process here. When I was speaking of the homemade wine taste, here is an example.

Mind you this wine is sitting in the carboy and its been a month since it started to ferment. I racked it from the fermenter to the bucket after 2 weeks when the level was 0.994. its been there for the last 2 weeks. I haven't filtered it or anything yet. No clearing agent added.
I took a sample of it in a wine glass. I poured another commercial wine side by side. I know it wasn't the same grape and all, but just to compare the various qualities. 

Comparing the two, the commercial wine was a ruby red that was quite shiny in the glass. Like a polished diamond. And quite seethrough. 
In contrast, my homemade wine was a bit cloudy. Not polished at all. And instead of being a ruby red, it was a more a red with an orangeish hue. with a bit of a dead lifeless look. I have a packet of potassium sorbate Im supposed to add before I bottle.

Are these things related to the age and the fact I haven't filtered the wine yet? The taste is not that bad, but doesn't have nearly the same edge and bite as the commercial one. Any insight into this?

Jim


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## robie (Oct 11, 2011)

It's only been a month since fermentation, it likely is not nearly clear, yet. You should make the comparison after you have properly cleared the wine. If you don't intend to add clearing agents, it will likely take another month or three before the wine is fully clear. Also, filtering it will make a nice, bright difference.

Red kit wine, even an ultra premium kit, is not going to compare with a nice commercial of the same type. The kit, even with a grape pack or raisins, is going to be thinner.

Considering the above, your kit is not really a high end, ultra premium kit, so it is likely to be even thinner and the taste most often won't compare to that of an ultra premium kit.

So, you are comparing apples and oranges, as they say. But then again, you didn't pay apple prices for your good oranges. Enjoy your oranges and don't expect them to taste like apples. 

Hope this helps. I was like you when I first started making kits; I just couldn't get a fix on what really to expect from kit wine. Then I went to home wine making club meetings, where everyone brought samples. That really helped.


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## jimfenster (Oct 11, 2011)

robie said:


> It's only been a month since fermentation, it likely is not nearly clear, yet. You should make the comparison after you have properly cleared the wine. If you don't intend to add clearing agents, it will likely take another month or three before the wine is fully clear. Also, filtering it will make a nice, bright difference.
> 
> Red kit wine, even an ultra premium kit, is not going to compare with a nice commercial of the same type. The kit, even with a grape pack or raisins, is going to be thinner.
> 
> ...





Cool thanks alot. Is there an ultra premium kit in the RJ Spagnol brand?


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## Putterrr (Oct 12, 2011)

RJS has 2 lines above the Cru Select

Cellar Classic Winery Series which contain crushed grape skins. I have the California Carbernet Savignon and Rosso Grande Eccellente againg in carboys at this time.

Above that is their En Primeur line which contain dried grape skins. Around here they are about $20 a kit more than the Winery line. I have not ventured up to this level yet.

They also put out limited edition releases every year that would be at least comparable to the Cru Select. From last year I made the Toro, Tango and Hang Ten. The Toro is just about ready to bottle (next weekend)

this years Limited wines

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15626

I like many started making cheaper wine kits but now almost exclusively make 6 week kits. They are richer in colour, body and flavour. From the small samplings I have had from the 2 winery kits as I have moved from carboy to carboy, they seem , how do I say this, thicker - more to chew on and the colour is a rich red. 

I have a 5 week Grande Cru Valpolicella aging now that I was given free as it appeared to be leaking when the store got their order in. I could find no leaks in the bag so started it. As it moved along, the tastings were not as good as the others. It was thin in taste and colour but it was free and we'll what it will be like in 6 months from now. I will probable add some glycerin and liquid oak before bottling to give this one some body.

I also make many kits from Wine Expert. I have done kits from the Selections Original, International and Limited edition Series. These compare quite well with the Cru Select and limited release lines

The old saying still applies, "You get what you pay for"

Cheers


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## robie (Oct 12, 2011)

jimfenster said:


> Cool thanks alot. Is there an ultra premium kit in the RJ Spagnol brand?



Yes. The RJS En Premier series is about as good as you can get in kit wines.

Their limited edition kits are always top quality kits, too.

Also, Mosti Mondiali sells the Meglioli kits, which are over two-hundred dollars each. They are full 23 liter kits, requiring no water to be added. I made their Barolo about 8 months ago. Even at that young age, it is already better than any other kit I have ever made. George at The Wine Maker's Toy Store sells both brands.


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## Giovannino (Oct 12, 2011)

What an excellent thread to read especially with all the experienced people giving their assistance (and in such a short period of time) - Thanks to the OP.

What I found, in this thread, is that most agree on "that" taste of kits. But what really got my ears perked was the use of raisins - hmm, never heard or read about it, not even this this forum - INTERESTING.

I ordered two, yes two, en Premeur last week but the shop does not stock it so I gotta wait - damn it. As the saying goes... the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Jim. I'm interested to know whether you got your kits on the Ontario side or perhaps the US since I thought these were not allowed in Quebec.


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## robie (Oct 12, 2011)

Lots of folks add raisins to their wines and really like the taste.

Let me add my own person opinion. If you don't agree, don't sweat it.

When a wine kit has had raisins added, I can definitely taste the raisins in it. When a wine starts oxidizing, it picks up a raisiny taste. So, I equate a raisin taste with oxidized wine. Since I don't like the taste of oxidized wine, I also don't like the taste of raisins in wine kits. raisins works well with some Italian wines, but for non-Italian wines, I prefer adding grape packs.

By the way, I really like raisin, if they are not in my wine.

Just my two cents worth.


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## jimfenster (Oct 12, 2011)

Giovannino said:


> What an excellent thread to read especially with all the experienced people giving their assistance (and in such a short period of time) - Thanks to the OP.
> 
> What I found, in this thread, is that most agree on "that" taste of kits. But what really got my ears perked was the use of raisins - hmm, never heard or read about it, not even this this forum - INTERESTING.
> 
> ...



I got mine in quebec.


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## Giovannino (Oct 13, 2011)

jimfenster said:


> I got mine in quebec.



My mistake - I guess it's the brew-on-premises which are not allowed. Thanks


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## pmerfa (Oct 19, 2014)

I was actually trying to find out why home wines are better and am surprised to find out other people are mostly drinking bad home wines.
this is my second year making wine. I pick my grapes from wine regions that make the best wine. Choose only grapes at ripe perfection (which have a brix above 24 and dont need sugar). Pick and crush them the same day fresh. Ferment it on the skins (until almost dry). It tastes pretty (better than most wines under $6 before aging). Press it and age it in oak barrels (oak barrels aging is important for fine wine) . I don't think your home wine will be better that store bought if you don't have access to an excellent wine grape region to pick grapes at ripe perfection.
I may sound like a snob, but you may have to be to make truly fine wine.


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## apetimberlake (Oct 19, 2014)

I always thought the taste was due to the lack. Of tannin. I would like to see is dried grape skin powder would help


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