# Do you put the bubbler airlock on after sprinking the yeast



## tysfoot (Jan 23, 2012)

Hi, just bought my new wine making kit today and just finished the primary fermentation
Do i put the bubbler airlock on straight after putting the yeast in or do i just put the lid on and leave the hole in the top for air to get in/out


cheers guys


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## hamy (Jan 23, 2012)

Hi, on my first try as well. With my kit the airlock is always on the first and second fermenter bins.

cheers


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## robie (Jan 23, 2012)

tysfoot said:


> Hi, just bought my new wine making kit today and just finished the primary fermentation
> Do i put the bubbler airlock on straight after putting the yeast in or do i just put the lid on and leave the hole in the top for air to get in/out
> 
> 
> cheers guys



During primary fermentation, set the lid in place, but don't snap it down.
Place a towel, small cloth, or paper towel over the air lock hole to prevent critters from going inside.
Only lock down the wine under air lock once the wine is in secondary fermentation.


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## Flem (Jan 23, 2012)

No need to use an airlock during primary fermentation.


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## Flem (Jan 23, 2012)

You're quicker than me, Robie! I just made a similar post on the Introductory thread.


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## tysfoot (Jan 23, 2012)

So in primary stage is it necessary for the air to get in and out ?

Its funny as my instrucions didnt say to use the airlock yet but it did on the youtube video, i wont put it on till the stabilising and clearing state as it says on my instruction i got with the wine.

Im using World Vineyard Reisling 30 bottle kit


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## Flem (Jan 23, 2012)

Yes, the yeast needs oxygen at this stage.


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## tysfoot (Jan 23, 2012)

When resting the lid on the top shall i put a towel over the top to stop the lid from moving and things getting in


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## Flem (Jan 23, 2012)

I just set my lid slightly off to the side leaving a little crack for the oxygen to get in. Some just use a towel by itself. It's probably good to give your wine a gentle stir every day to re-suspend the yeast.


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## Putterrr (Jan 23, 2012)

I have always had an airlock in the hole from the start with the lid sitting loosely on the bucket. All kits have fermented with no problem. Whatever works for you as I don't stir either unless I have floating oak or grape bag.

good luck


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## tysfoot (Jan 23, 2012)

i think i may just stick to the instructions that i have with my wine kit and leave the airlock off untill later, ill rest the lid on top


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## hamy (Jan 23, 2012)

..my kit says cover loosley with lid or use a sealed lid with fermentation lock and stopper.

I did have trouble getting it going (the yeast) and after a few days and some posts on here ...a stir was what I needed to get it bubbling.

cheers


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## Larryh86GT (Jan 23, 2012)

I just cover my primary bucket with a clean cloth and threw the lids away.


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## robie (Jan 23, 2012)

hamy said:


> ..my kit says cover loosley with lid or use a sealed lid with fermentation lock and stopper.
> 
> I did have trouble getting it going (the yeast) and after a few days and some posts on here ...a stir was what I needed to get it bubbling.
> 
> cheers



The main reason why the stir worked is likely because the yeast needed oxygen, not necessarily because they needed to be stirred up from the bottom. Hence, don't lock down the primary under a snapped down lid and an air lock.


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## LanMan (Jan 23, 2012)

Just to clairify, I know yeast need o2 because I primairily make beer and areiate the wort before adding the yeast then top and lock. I also do this to my wine with good results ie. nothing ever stuck. So do wine yeasties need more o2 than beer yeastie beasties or what?
Not trying to be a smarta$$ I just always wanted to know


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## robie (Jan 24, 2012)

LanMan said:


> Just to clairify, I know yeast need o2 because I primairily make beer and areiate the wort before adding the yeast then top and lock. I also do this to my wine with good results ie. nothing ever stuck. So do wine yeasties need more o2 than beer yeastie beasties or what?
> Not trying to be a smarta$$ I just always wanted to know



Sorry, I have never made beer. I doubt there would be much of a difference, though, where the yeast are concerned.

People do all this a thousand different ways, many, many times in a row and have good success every time. The problem with not doing it "by the science", is when something slightly marginal comes along. So, do what ever works for you. Nothing beats your own experience.


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## LanMan (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks for clarifying robie.

Just wanted to hear from someone with more experience than me.


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## Manimal (Jan 24, 2012)

Provided you have poured your juice/crushed your grapes/vigorously mixed your concentrate, there should be plenty of dissolved oxygen in your juice/must to facilitate yeast growth. Yeast only require O2 for the growth phase. Once fermentation progresses beyond the initial stages (approx. 1/3 sugar depletion) oxygen is no longer required in any significant quantity.

I don't think there is much oxygen uptake by the must during fermentation whether you keep the lid off or not. Provided you weren't too careful about sloshing and splashing while mixing your kit, I'd go ahead and put the airlock on. I suppose you could keep it off for about the first 1/3 drop in sugar if you wanted to play it really safe and optimize your chances of O2 uptake.

With grape wines, it may be wise to perform an aerating racking at about 1/3 sugar depletion to coincide with nutrient additions at that time, but after that initial stage, oxygen does not determine the difference between successful and unsuccessful fermentation. (There are other possible benefits to later O2 additions such as tannin polymerization, colour stabilization, elimination of reductive off odours, etc., but these are unrelated to the progress of fermentation.)


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## KenS (Jan 24, 2012)

It's surprising how many threads there are about this topic on these forums. Clearly there are many ways to work this successfully. But, being the analytical guy that I am, I have to ask a couple of questions:

1. If during primary fermentation, the production of CO2 is sufficient to "protect the wine from oxidation", as so many have pointed out, then how is it that keeping the cover loose, or leaving the airlock hole open could allow oxygen to get in at all? Therefore, what harm is there in putting the airlock on, since everything touching the must is CO2 anyway?

2. If you don't use the airlock in the primary, but rather just cover the hole with a towel, is there any harm in just using the 3-piece airlock with the middle piece removed? Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing (namely keeping critters out)? Again, it seems unlikely that oxygen could get in through that hole with all the CO2 coming out of it.

Overall, it just seems that the real answer is that the airlock is 'not necessary' during primary, but the idea that it's letting in 'oxygen needed for the yeast' seems unlikely. But, I'd love to better understand from the experienced guys


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## robie (Jan 24, 2012)

KenS said:


> It's surprising how many threads there are about this topic on these forums. Clearly there are many ways to work this successfully. But, being the analytical guy that I am, I have to ask a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. If during primary fermentation, the production of CO2 is sufficient to "protect the wine from oxidation", as so many have pointed out, then how is it that keeping the cover loose, or leaving the airlock hole open could allow oxygen to get in at all? Therefore, what harm is there in putting the airlock on, since everything touching the must is CO2 anyway?
> 
> ...



1) The CO2 does not seal out 100% of the O2. if present, some O2 will get to the wine. there's a lot more current on top of the wine than you might think.

2) Again, the problem is more that when someone seals the lid and adds an air lock, they will likely not remove the lid at all for extended periods of time. Wine needs stirred during primary to add plenty O2. If you have the wine locked down, it is not likely it is going to even get opened, let along stirred. With the lid not snapped down, some O2 will get in and to the wine. In my opinion, probably not enough will get in; that's why wine, even white wine, needs stirred periodically during primary. Yes, I know even some commercial wineries lock down huge tanks of white wine during primary. I really don't know how they get by with it, but I know they do. 

Taking the inside piece out of a three-piece air lock is not the answer. Gnats and other very small critters can get through the small holes in the lid of the air lock. Besides, some of us prefer the "S"-style air lock.

I have written the following several times, but I'll do it again. I guess I need to post it somewhere that I can just post a link to it in the future.

As I have said, there are many different ways to ferment out the wine. Many people don't stir or otherwise allow air to get to their wine during primary and they produce good wine time after time. 

Here's what the science says (paraphrased by me):
Alcoholic fermentation by yeast is divided into two main stages - aerobic and anaerobic.

During the first stage - aerobic, which is called primary fermentation, the yeast are acclimating and multiplying at an incredible rate, all the while they are converting sugars to alcohol, CO2 and other minor chemicals. This, as demonstrated by the high activity in primary, is happening at an enormous rate.

At some point in time, wine making instructions will have you lock down the wine by restricting as much as possible the amount of oxygen getting to the wine. This is the beginning of the anaerobic stage of fermentation. 

This is the point at which secondary fermentation begins. Anaerobic and secondary fermentation are pretty much the same stage. Some kit makers have us close down the wine at different SG's. That's because they feel that is the correct point to start anaerobic fermentation for that particular wine combined with the particular yeast they have provided.

So, primary fermentation is really aerobic fermentation; secondary is the anaerobic stage.

One can restrict the amount of oxygen getting to the wine during the aerobic stage; the wine will likely turn out fine, if it doesn't get stuck, of course. However, in the end, it is possible the wine is not going to be as "complete" as it might have been. Maybe the yeast were starved of the necessary oxygen and maybe they did their job in the end, but maybe just not as well as they could have. Measuring the SG tells you how much sugar is left, but it doesn't speak of the health of the yeast.

Most stuck fermentations get that way during secondary fermentation. maybe that's because the yeast started that stage in an unhealthy state and they couldn't recover. That is just my own guess, though, but it sounds logical to me.

It's the science!!!

In the end, make the wine however you want. It's your wine.

I hope this helps.


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## Putterrr (Jan 24, 2012)

Robie

I only make 6 week premium kits but have recently done Winery Series and En Primeur so I can only comment on these instructions

Why do the folks at RJS and WE not mention anything about stirring during primary fermentation?

RJS also states : Place cover (or lid with airlock and rubber bung) onto primary fermenter. WE just says to cover the fermenter. Neither say anything about making sure the wine gets additional O2.

I'm sure they have made thousands of these kits and if they didn't provide us with the best possible instructions, problems would arise and we would stop buying their kits.

(For full disclosure, I don't follow the instructions to a T but I also know that if there is an issue, its on me and not them)


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## cfmiller (Jan 24, 2012)

Robie, that is why I hate the directions for the kits. They don't explain it well enough for beginners. 

I put the lid on with an airlock. However, I give it a good stir once daily for the first week or so. It has worked so far. I don't like the idea of leaving something as flimsy as a towel over the hole.


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## robie (Jan 25, 2012)

cfmiller said:


> Robie, that is why I hate the directions for the kits. They don't explain it well enough for beginners.
> 
> I put the lid on with an airlock. However, I give it a good stir once daily for the first week or so. It has worked so far. I don't like the idea of leaving something as flimsy as a towel over the hole.



That will work!


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## robie (Jan 25, 2012)

Putterrr said:


> Robie
> 
> I only make 6 week premium kits but have recently done Winery Series and En Primeur so I can only comment on these instructions
> 
> ...



I believe some of the WE kits also say to snap down the lid and add an air lock. I just don't know which kits do and which don't.

Your question is one of my points. Consider that the red En Primer kits come with grape skins. The instructions also don't say anything about pushing down the grape skins or stirring them in. Go find an experienced wine maker who would agree with that!

If not pushed down, those skins will quickly (within the first 24 hours of the start of fermentation) come to the surface and stay there during the entire fermentation. They can very quickly start mildewing and eventually rotting. Not to mention the whole reasoning behind including a grape pack will be thwarted, if the grape skins are not mixed in regularly.

As I said in other threads, the kit manufacturer is likely more concerned with the wine becoming oxidized than with a quality fermentation... just my guess, though.

Also, I'm guessing they will maintain that if the must is stirred well before pitching the yeast, there will be enough O2 in the must to get through primary OK. Some pro wine makers believe this to be true for whites.

To have your question answered, you will have to ask WE and RJS.

I believe this whole discussion is doing more harm to new home wine makers than good. It has to be making them wonder what's going on. In the end, until one gets experienced, one should always follow the kit manufacturer's instructions. After that one can decide for one's self.

Fortunately, wine making is very forgiving, especially in our small 6-gallon batches.


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## U-G (Oct 17, 2012)

I have my wine fermenting it's on the second day n my airlock is bubbling but its got a pink hue instead of clear..is that good still or shuld I just take the airlock off..


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## barryjo (Nov 8, 2012)

U-G said:


> I have my wine fermenting it's on the second day n my airlock is bubbling but its got a pink hue instead of clear..is that good still or shuld I just take the airlock off..


My guess is that your fermenter is pretty full. Therefore wine droplets are exiting the container via the airlock. My personal choice is to put a cloth over the fermenter and hold it with a rubber band. (I made up some bands using 1/4" bungee cord.)
This is left in place until the most active fermentation is done. Doing this prevents the lock from becoming plugged and you DON'T want that to happen. Trust me. 
This also makes it easier to stir and squeeze the fruit bag, if present.
Later, the lid can be seated and the lock installed. Hint: use a cheap vodka instead of water or sulfite soltion in the lock. 
Happy fermenting!


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## BernardSmith (Nov 8, 2012)

*confusion or a need to experiment?*

Robie, 
I am not sure I agree that discussions about whether to add an airlock or not from day 1 of the fermentation confuses those new to wine making or does more harm than good. I am a firm believer in experimentation. Received opinions about what is effective or what must fail may seem less confusing until we find that the ideas we thought were unquestionable turn out to be fictions. What we should be encouraging, I think is experimentation with small quantities of wine and determining whether a must ferments when we add an airlock on day one or whether a wine ferments more slowly or is more likely to stick when we inhibit the yeast's access to air at the beginning of the fermentation; whether "anaerobic" fermentation makes any difference whether we are fermenting just the juice or juice and fruit. I strongly agree that wine, like bread, is very forgiving... but I think if we in fact experiment rather than invoke received wisdom and opinion we may be less anxious and more relaxed when either we or someone else finds that they have failed to follow instructions for one reason or another.


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## Tom_S (Nov 8, 2012)

Personally I really don't think it matters one way or another if you add an airlock to the primary or not, with caveats. I talked about this in another thread recently.

I often use a carboy for a primary fermentation vessel. I sprinkle the yeast on top, then leave a piece of paper towel over the mouth of the carboy for a day or so, until fermentation takes off and is bubbling vigorously. Then I'll add an airlock.

One argument is that the yeast need oxygen in primary, which is correct while the yeast are reproducing. Once they've reproduced and change over to the fermentation stage, they're producing so much CO2 that there's little chance any oxygen is going to get into the must anyway. The CO2 forms a layer on top of the must, and if it's a very vigorous ferment like I usually get, stirring isn't going to add much oxygen. But from what I've read, at this point they really don't need much oxygen anyway. 

So it won't hurt to add an airlock in primary, (and this is important) as long as a vigorous ferment is occurring. Now the first day or two after adding yeast, it's important then that the yeast gets oxygen. So never add an airlock just after adding yeast.


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