# New Wine Room (Brew and Storage)



## MrsJones (Oct 16, 2018)

Hi All! 

We're doing a full basement renovation - bedrooms, bathroom etc. etc. and I'm carving out a space for brewing, bottling and storing. I have some flexibility in the size, but taking more space for my wine room means stealing it from a bedroom or living room. I got the idea from another poster here (@KennyM), but wanted to get your thoughts as we're in very early stages (demo). 

I attached a full floor plan for our basement and then a zoomed in of what I'm looking at for the brew room and storage.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 16, 2018)

Taking on a nice sized project Mrs Jones! I’m sure your excited. I know I would be. 

If I could offer just 1 simple suggestion based off your site plan (which you did a great job on btw. Gives everything needed) it would be to swap the guest bedroom and wineroom
As is, the wineroom would be tight. But if in the ‘guest BR’ your bottle storage could go on either wall since there’s x2 window options for AC to exhaust to make it temp controlled. And also much easier water/drain access on the washer/dryer wall to have a sink in your wine room. New room build? Gotta have a sink!
Just my $0.02. Good luck


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## meadmaker1 (Oct 16, 2018)

I agree on the sink, to do so much and still pack water, or hardware to it would be a shame. Guests might get to comfortable and stay too long in a big room anyway.
1 question. How are you going to defend your wine if it is stashed with the guns.


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## MrsJones (Oct 17, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Taking on a nice sized project Mrs Jones! I’m sure your excited. I know I would be.
> 
> If I could offer just 1 simple suggestion based off your site plan (which you did a great job on btw. Gives everything needed) it would be to swap the guest bedroom and wineroom
> As is, the wineroom would be tight. But if in the ‘guest BR’ your bottle storage could go on either wall since there’s x2 window options for AC to exhaust to make it temp controlled. And also much easier water/drain access on the washer/dryer wall to have a sink in your wine room. New room build? Gotta have a sink!
> Just my $0.02. Good luck



Thank you for the suggestion!!! My contractor suggested the layout because we need windows for the bedrooms. I might go back and ask him what it would take to add a window.


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## MrsJones (Oct 17, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> I agree on the sink, to do so much and still pack water, or hardware to it would be a shame. Guests might get to comfortable and stay too long in a big room anyway.
> 1 question. How are you going to defend your wine if it is stashed with the guns.



Haha thanks for weighing in. I absolutely need a sink in there. We figured put all the things that children can’t access together. That door will have extra locks


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## MrsJones (Feb 9, 2019)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Taking on a nice sized project Mrs Jones! I’m sure your excited. I know I would be.
> 
> If I could offer just 1 simple suggestion based off your site plan (which you did a great job on btw. Gives everything needed) it would be to swap the guest bedroom and wineroom
> As is, the wineroom would be tight. But if in the ‘guest BR’ your bottle storage could go on either wall since there’s x2 window options for AC to exhaust to make it temp controlled. And also much easier water/drain access on the washer/dryer wall to have a sink in your wine room. New room build? Gotta have a sink!
> Just my $0.02. Good luck



Looks like you had already commented on my post back in October when we were early planning. We weren’t able to switch the rooms around because of windows but I do have another foot or so on the wine room now!


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## Ajmassa (Feb 9, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Looks like you had already commented on my post back in October when we were early planning. We weren’t able to switch the rooms around because of windows but I do have another foot or so on the wine room now!



Small world!

Are you still all set with the initial plan or have there been major changes made?


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## MrsJones (Feb 10, 2019)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Small world!
> 
> Are you still all set with the initial plan or have there been major changes made?



Mostly - I think I have an extra foot now for the storage space now. My big thought today is maybe I should do a pocket door instead of a walk through so I can have more temperature control orrr close it off completely and use the door in the hallway so I have that full wall for storage...

Any thoughts?


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## MrsJones (Feb 10, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Mostly - I think I have an extra foot now for the storage space now. My big thought today is maybe I should do a pocket door instead of a walk through so I can have more temperature control orrr close it off completely and use the door in the hallway so I have that full wall for storage...
> 
> Any thoughts?



Orr lose the hallway door to storage and do pocket between storage and brew...


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## Ajmassa (Feb 11, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Orr lose the hallway door to storage and do pocket between storage and brew...



Nice catch. I like this 2nd idea to ditch the hallway and put a pocket door inside. 
Just a little tip for the wall that gets the pocket door. If you plan on hanging cabinetry or racks to the section of wall where the door sits when in the ‘open’ position, the wall is kinda flimsy when using the standard pocket door framing packs. 
Often we end up building another 2x3 wall in front of it or pack it out with furring strips or sideways 2x’s to strengthen for cabinetry.


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## MrsJones (Feb 12, 2019)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Nice catch. I like this 2nd idea to ditch the hallway and put a pocket door inside.
> Just a little tip for the wall that gets the pocket door. If you plan on hanging cabinetry or racks to the section of wall where the door sits when in the ‘open’ position, the wall is kinda flimsy when using the standard pocket door framing packs.
> Often we end up building another 2x3 wall in front of it or pack it out with furring strips or sideways 2x’s to strengthen for cabinetry.



Thank you! I’ll have a think about that. I think at most it would have some kind of leg board for tools but I’ll still need to be careful. Will talk to my contractor about it (my Uncle).


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## NorCal (Feb 12, 2019)

10 foot by 9 foot seems too small to divide with a wall. The 10 foot wall with racking will hold close to 1,000 bottles (16 bottles per sqft). I’d also look to make a very long work bench with carboy/bucket storage underneath, a sink area and leaving the center of the room open to work.


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## MrsJones (Feb 12, 2019)

Framing for this space has started! We did wind up going with the pocket door so I can manage heat in the two spaces differently. It won’t be perfect without a window but it’s 100x better than what I had. We had to do some wall in the middle to accommodate the plumbing for the sink 

So exciting! When I get downstairs later today I’ll do some more measurements so I see the final foot print I’m working with.


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## MrsJones (Feb 12, 2019)

NorCal said:


> 10 foot by 9 foot seems too small to divide with a wall. The 10 foot wall with racking will hold close to 1,000 bottles (16 bottles per sqft). I’d also look to make a very long work bench with carboy/bucket storage underneath, a sink area and leaving the center of the room open to work.



I’m thinking of a rack something like this


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## Ajmassa (Feb 12, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> View attachment 53272
> 
> 
> Framing for this space has started! We did wind up going with the pocket door so I can manage heat in the two spaces differently. It won’t be perfect without a window but it’s 100x better than what I had. We had to do some wall in the middle to accommodate the plumbing for the sink
> ...



Love it. Looking forward to following along as you post with more updates.


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## MrsJones (Feb 13, 2019)

Ordered two of these tonight - haven’t seen a better price on stainless steel tables! 

https://www.costco.ca/TRINITY-EcoStorage-NSF-Stainless-Steel-Prep-Table.product.100098593.html


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## bstnh1 (Feb 13, 2019)

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/re...galvanized-legs-and-undershelf/600T3072G.html


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## MrsJones (Feb 13, 2019)

bstnh1 said:


> https://www.webstaurantstore.com/re...galvanized-legs-and-undershelf/600T3072G.html



Great site! I’m In Canada so it’s not as inexpensive as it looks at first glance. I’ll be able to do some price comparisons though, thanks for sharing it!

The next big thing is a sink/table. I’ve got room for about five feet long. So far I haven’t found anything used that’s nearbyish so may have to buy that new as well.


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## SethF (Feb 13, 2019)

Where did your pic of the storage come from? I find it extraordinary that they built those on wheels!

How are you cooling the storage space?

I realize you are framed, but the pocket door will likely present an issue in the future as you can't seal it properly. You can have the door swing into the brew room, not scre up your storage or cooling depending on what is where, and use exterior rated doors for all.

You can use a windowed door if you like, into your hall, as I did.


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## MrsJones (Feb 14, 2019)

SethF said:


> Where did your pic of the storage come from? I find it extraordinary that they built those on wheels!
> 
> How are you cooling the storage space?
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing! This is something to think about for sure! I don’t have a lot of cooling options other than just not heating it. I don’t have a Window so no air conditioning. 

That storage room example I just found on Pinterest I think. I like the carboy storage under the wine racks but not sure if that’s the best layout. I would also have room on the brew side for them.


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## Johnd (Feb 14, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Thanks for sharing! This is something to think about for sure! I don’t have a lot of cooling options other than just not heating it. I don’t have a Window so no air conditioning.
> 
> That storage room example I just found on Pinterest I think. I like the carboy storage under the wine racks but not sure if that’s the best layout. I would also have room on the brew side for them.



You don't need a window for air conditioning or refrigeration.....................


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## SethF (Feb 14, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Thanks for sharing! This is something to think about for sure! I don’t have a lot of cooling options other than just not heating it. I don’t have a Window so no air conditioning.
> 
> That storage room example I just found on Pinterest I think. I like the carboy storage under the wine racks but not sure if that’s the best layout. I would also have room on the brew side for them.


Where are you located?
Can you core a hole thru the external facing wall?


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## MrsJones (Feb 14, 2019)

Johnd said:


> You don't need a window for air conditioning or refrigeration.....................



Really?! I was under the impression you needed a window for air conditioning. What do you use?


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## MrsJones (Feb 14, 2019)

Any thoughts on this sink? https://www.zanduco.com/ca/two-tub-sink-18-x18-x11-with-left-drain-board-en-2308prod.html


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## Johnd (Feb 14, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Really?! I was under the impression you needed a window for air conditioning. What do you use?



I used a refrigeration system in mine, split system muchlike an A/C system in a home, just made for the temps and humidity levels of a wine room. Little condenser outside on a pad, air handling unit in the attic, ducted air supply and return from the attic unit to the room. You can get them with or without ducted supply and return, and without a window or access to the outside, the split system options are the key. Air moving equipment in the room, condenser outside is a good option as well. You can check mine out on this thread if you are interested, may have to scroll around a bit, but the pics of the system are in there............

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/new-wine-room.52998/


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## SethF (Feb 14, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Really?! I was under the impression you needed a window for air conditioning. What do you use?


Agree with JonD but that's why I asked you where you live. A lot depends on the environment and winter temperatures. Split systems generally don't work where the external temperature falls significantly below freezing.

I use a single ducted portable air conditioner which when fooled keeps it at 55 degrees consistently. When that sales, I will go to a dual vented system. I can show you in, but first answer the question as to where you are.


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## SethF (Feb 15, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Any thoughts on this sink? https://www.zanduco.com/ca/two-tub-sink-18-x18-x11-with-left-drain-board-en-2308prod.html


Go for the largest single bowl sink you can afford:
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/14911/1-compartment-sinks.html
See the criteria on the left.
Seth


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## NorCal (Feb 15, 2019)

You can also vent a window AC into another room, not optimal because the cool you get in the wine room will equal the heat you are adding in the other (plus some). However, I have a “wine box” in a garage and it survives 110 degree summer days with a $78 Walmart AC wall unit.


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## MrsJones (Feb 15, 2019)

SethF said:


> Agree with JonD but that's why I asked you where you live. A lot depends on the environment and winter temperatures. Split systems generally don't work where the external temperature falls significantly below freezing.
> 
> I use a single ducted portable air conditioner which when fooled keeps it at 55 degrees consistently. When that sales, I will go to a dual vented system. I can show you in, but first answer the question as to where you are.



Gotcha! Thanks! I live in Canada, BC (not Vancouver). temperatures range from 20 above Celsius to 20 below Celsius with spikes in the thirties on either side from time to time.


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 15, 2019)

NorCal said:


> 10 foot by 9 foot seems too small to divide with a wall. The 10 foot wall with racking will hold close to 1,000 bottles (16 bottles per sqft). I’d also look to make a very long work bench with carboy/bucket storage underneath, a sink area and leaving the center of the room open to work.


*Small spaces turn into hallways!*
4 ft wide wine storage is a 3 ft hallway with 12 inches for storage. The space is too tight to be comfortable. Try the width with cardboard first!
6 ft wide is a 3 ft hall plus a 2 ft bench plus 12 inches of bookshelf.
The center wall will be in the way.
A flexible option is the storage (2 ft) with floor to ceiling sliding closet doors and work bench ( all work benches) which is on wheels, plus a small SS apartment sink on wheels with 5 gal slop bucket. Plumbing? make it a column.


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## SethF (Feb 16, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Gotcha! Thanks! I live in Canada, BC (not Vancouver). temperatures range from 20 above Celsius to 20 below Celsius with spikes in the thirties on either side from time to time.


Then you can't use a split system.
Can you bore a 6-8" hole in your exterior wall?


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## MrsJones (Feb 16, 2019)

SethF said:


> Then you can't use a split system.
> Can you bore a 6-8" hole in your exterior wall?



Mayyybe - thanks for the suggestion! Maybe something I can do down the track.


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## MrsJones (Feb 16, 2019)

Rice_Guy said:


> *Small spaces turn into hallways!*
> 4 ft wide wine storage is a 3 ft hallway with 12 inches for storage. The space is too tight to be comfortable. Try the width with cardboard first!
> 6 ft wide is a 3 ft hall plus a 2 ft bench plus 12 inches of bookshelf.
> The center wall will be in the way.
> A flexible option is the storage (2 ft) with floor to ceiling sliding closet doors and work bench ( all work benches) which is on wheels, plus a small SS apartment sink on wheels with 5 gal slop bucket. Plumbing? make it a column.




I think maybe I feel like it’s so much room because it’s 2-3x what I had before and my own dedicated space! I’ll head downstairs with some wine boxes once the kiddos are down for a nap to try to mockup the space a bit before it’s too late to make any other changes.

Thankfully the contractor is my uncle


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## SethF (Feb 16, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Mayyybe - thanks for the suggestion! Maybe something I can do down the track.


Agree that you should try and make it larger if you can.

If you can punch thru the wall and put at least a 6" duct thru, now is the time to do it. Just make sure you have a proper power circuit to handle an AC unit at that location. Then you can use a portable AC, if single duct, then duct out the exhaust. If dual duct, then the exhaust goes out, and the intake can go thru the wall and draw from your adjoining room.

You can then easily fool the AC sensor so it can bring it down to 55° F.


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 17, 2019)

SethF said:


> Agree that you should try and make it larger if you can.
> 
> If you can punch thru the wall and put at least a 6" duct thru, now is the time to do it. Just make sure you have a proper power circuit to handle an AC unit at that location. Then you can use a portable AC, if single duct, then duct out the exhaust. If dual duct, then the exhaust goes out, and the intake can go thru the wall and draw from your adjoining room.
> 
> You can then easily fool the AC sensor so it can bring it down to 55° F.


Flexibility will always make the future easier, , ex work’s pilot plant had a loop with electric, air, gas, etc with capped places to tap in if there was a new toy. Easy wash down is FRP dairy board or shower board on Sheetrock. I like holes and unused conduit for future flexibility ex running 3/8 inch tubing/ PEX. An off the shelf way to get rid of water is a condensate pump, just no solids!
BC is cool much of the year. In the Midwest I run a dehumidifier in the basement half the year and Wish I had enough refrigeration to contain a primary/ carboy for temp control. When I have run 10C ferments they are in the garage fridge. When I lived in Texas I would have planned ac.
Dreams are fun!  Expect new toys in the next 10 years.
This may not add value to your house. A realtor suggested removing a greenhouse would bring a higher sales price.


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## MrsJones (Feb 20, 2019)

Thanks everyone! So appreciate all the advice!


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## MrsJones (Feb 21, 2019)

Thoughts on this for the back long wall for storage? https://www.feralturtle.com/2012/01/building-wine-storage.html?m=1

With maybe something like this on the short L where the hallway door was going to be and isn’t now.


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## MrsJones (Jun 12, 2019)

Progress!! 

I have walls and a door and flooring!


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## sour_grapes (Jun 12, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Progress!!
> 
> I have walls and a door and flooring!



AND A BEER! Congrats.


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## Ignoble Grape (Jun 13, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Progress!!
> 
> I have walls and a door and flooring! View attachment 55048
> View attachment 55049


So envious of that sink...


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 13, 2019)

MrsJones said:


> Progress!!
> 
> I have walls and a door and flooring! ]


A lot of us envy all the stainless steel! Looks like it will be a show piece


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## MrsJones (Aug 31, 2019)

We’re done! Now to get brewing! 



My faucet is now installed!



You can see it’s galley style - plenty of room for me to work when the door is closed. Those black boards at the end are stainless steel pegboard which I still need to get put up.



This LE18 will be my first brew in this room.



Toddler for scale - I currently have enough space for 450 bottles in the wine closet. I can expand when I run out of room but had to stop spending money. The shelving on the right is new and the left is what I had before starting the project.



Another wine rack shot.



No unsupervised visitors.


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## bstnh1 (Aug 31, 2019)

Nice! Makes my area look sick.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 31, 2019)

Looks great! Funny about the lock - my oldest will be 12 soon and my mother in law is asking if I plan to wall off/lock the wine making and storage area soon. I need to, but keep procrastinating.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 1, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> Looks great! Funny about the lock - my oldest will be 12 soon and my mother in law is asking if I plan to wall off/lock the wine making and storage area soon. I need to, but keep procrastinating.



I thought wifey was the obstacle giving up the space. Her and her mom should have a talk because you have the help.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 1, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> I thought wifey was the obstacle giving up the space. Her and her mom should have a talk because you have the help.



That area where my barrels are also contains some 'other stuff' that she's not willing to move. As you know, I want it to be 100% wine related storage - she wants it to just be 'storage', including some wine.


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## Dom Lausic (Sep 6, 2019)

Looking great!


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## MrsJones (Sep 7, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> Looks great! Funny about the lock - my oldest will be 12 soon and my mother in law is asking if I plan to wall off/lock the wine making and storage area soon. I need to, but keep procrastinating.



It just felt like a good idea. My toddler thinks all the things are for climbing on. The wine racks are secured to the wall - but I suspect his best superman impression would still get some bottles smashed and him hurt.


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## MrsJones (Sep 15, 2019)

Peg board is up!!


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## stickman (Sep 15, 2019)

Looks good, but it just won't be right until you have some red wine splattered on the walls and ceiling.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 15, 2019)

stickman said:


> Looks good, but it just won't be right until you have some red wine splattered on the walls and ceiling.



I'm sure that will come soon enough. Nice job MrsJones.


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## MrsJones (Sep 15, 2019)

stickman said:


> Looks good, but it just won't be right until you have some red wine splattered on the walls and ceiling.



That’s next!!


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