# Eastern Europeans in OH and NY



## winemaker81 (Mar 19, 2022)

In the *coffee wine thread* we got sidetracked into a few of us being descendants of Eastern European immigrants, so I'm starting this thread to provide an opportunity to get the coffee thread back on track.

So far, @BigDaveK is originally from the Cleveland OH area, @David Violante's family was from that area, and I had a paternal great uncle that moved to Cleveland before WWII.

To make things more interesting, my paternal grandmother's brother moved to Cleveland in the 1920's (I think). His surname was either Vargo or Varga; my family is not sure. Everyone who knew has been dead for more than 50 years, so without a Ouija Board, I don't expect answers.


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## Ohio Bob (Mar 19, 2022)

I’m in Columbia Station, southwest of Cleveland. Grandparents came from Germany, Denmark, and Latvia.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 19, 2022)

I’ve got roots in Lithuania, and Germany. While my grandparents didn’t make wine they did ferment a lot of kraut. My hometown in upstate NY was a hotbed of Eastern European sub communities


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## winemaker81 (Mar 19, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> My hometown in upstate NY was a hotbed of Eastern European sub communities


Turin NY and the Tug Hill plateau were a strong center for eastern Europeans, along with Lowville and Croghan.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 19, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Turin NY and the Tug Hill plateau were a strong center for eastern Europeans, along with Lowville and Croghan.


Amsterdam - Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanian, German, and a few Hungarians thrown in. 
i remember 25¢ draft beer at the polish/american club when I was growing up.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 19, 2022)

Utica and Rome have a large Polish representation. My wife's family is Polish. The best pierogi I've had is made in Utica, and the the best kielbasa in New Hartford.

There are more Italians in Rome NY than there are in Rome, Italy.  

I miss the ethnic markets!


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## David Violante (Mar 20, 2022)

My great grandparents came from the southern part of Italy into New Jersey for a short time and then migrated to Ohio. One grandfather was a bricklayer, the other a butcher. Tons of family out there in Ohio. My grapevines are actually replants of my grandfathers. He used to make lots of concord wine with the family.


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (Apr 3, 2022)

My rootstock comes from Condove Italy just east of Turino, and Shannon Ireland. Never met the Irish side as my father was one of 14 and the youngest and he and his folks died when I was a kid. Once my new vineyard is up and running I'll be the 3rd Generation making wine. My time spent in Italy learning how they made wine would make today's wine makers cringe. Everything was done by taste, there wasn't any testing equipment involved other than a hydrometer. I remember watching them wax dip (or some kind of melted polymer) bottles and storing them in the lake on the property as some fancy way of aging their version of a "vinters reserve." I think it was more of a way to refrigerate bottles to protect them from freezing that were going to be sold the following summer. It was really interesting to see how they did everythig and anything that went bad and all the fermentation waste, bad fruit, bad wine was turned into grappa.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 4, 2022)

Fox Squirrel Vin said:


> My time spent in Italy learning how they made wine would make today's wine makers cringe. Everything was done by taste, there wasn't any testing equipment involved other than a hydrometer.


Most of the guys I knew in my early years were of Italian extraction -- the joke was there were more Italians in Rome, NY than Rome Italy. 

Most had a hydrometer, one or two used acid titration. Nothing beyond that, although there wasn't much available for home winemakers. On the far end of the scale, a few dumped their boxes of grapes into a barrel, pressed after 7 days, racked 3 weeks later, and bottled 3 months after that.

Edit: I need to pay more attention before replying, as I'd already made the comment about Rome NY and Italy .......


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 4, 2022)

i repeat myself all the time.


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## BigDaveK (Apr 4, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Utica and Rome have a large Polish representation. My wife's family is Polish. The best pierogi I've had is made in Utica, and the the best kielbasa in New Hartford.
> 
> There are more Italians in Rome NY than there are in Rome, Italy.
> 
> I miss the ethnic markets!


In addition to kielbasa I make a big batch of pierogi a couple times a year for freezing. No where near the quality of the old church ladies of my youth but better than store bought. I'm almost ashamed to admit I've bought Mrs. T's - OK if you're desperate.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 4, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> In addition to kielbasa I make a big batch of pierogi a couple times a year for freezing. No where near the quality of the old church ladies of my youth but better than store bought. I'm almost ashamed to admit I've bought Mrs. T's - OK if you're desperate.


Pierogis are a lot of work. My grandma was Lithuania, they call them vertinis. My wife got the skill passed down from my mother. We used to have an assembly line once a year to make a ton for eating and freezing.
there were ground meat, cheese, cherry, cabbage (yum) potatoe and on and on.

mrs T’s smothered in butter with bacon crumbles is nothing to be ashamed of.


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## BigDaveK (Apr 4, 2022)

I'm second generation American, half Slovak, half Hungarian. A couple years ago I got one of those Ancestry DNA kits. I thought, great, I'll get a better idea of where I come from. It came back and said there was a 97% chance I was Eastern European. Seriously? Glad I didn't pay for it!


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 4, 2022)

I repeat myself all the time !


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## BigDaveK (Apr 4, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Pierogis are a lot of work. My grandma was Lithuania, they call them vertinis. My wife got the skill passed down from my mother. We used to have an assembly line once a year to make a ton for eating and freezing.
> there were ground meat, cheese, cherry, cabbage (yum) potatoe and on and on.
> 
> mrs T’s smothered in butter with bacon crumbles is nothing to be ashamed of.


Yes, it is work. And oh so worth it.
Cabbage was always my favorite, too! The church ladies would cook and caramelize the cabbage first. I do the same.
Sauerkraut 2nd favorite, everything else 3rd. Haven't made a dessert type yet but it's on the list.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 4, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Cabbage was always my favorite, too! The church ladies would cook and caramelize the cabbage first. I do the same.
> Sauerkraut 2nd favorite, everything else 3rd. Haven't made a dessert type yet but it's on the list.


Sauerkraut for the win! Cherry and blueberry are good -- for those not familiar, the fruit is not sweetened, so it's not like eating pie.


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (Apr 4, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Most of the guys I knew in my early years were of Italian extraction -- the joke was there were more Italians in Rome, NY than Rome Italy.
> 
> Most had a hydrometer, one or two used acid titration. Nothing beyond that, although there wasn't much available for home winemakers. On the far end of the scale, a few dumped their boxes of grapes into a barrel, pressed after 7 days, racked 3 weeks later, and bottled 3 months after that.
> 
> Edit: I need to pay more attention before replying, as I'd already made the comment about Rome NY and Italy .......



Yeah that was pretty much the go to process. 

The original pectic enzyme, let the fruit begin to rot for 7 days.


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## balatonwine (Apr 6, 2022)

Just to sidetrack a sidetracked posts.... Many "Americans" miss-label "Eastern Europeans" and "Central Europeans". Americans use the cold war terms, not the cultural and geographical terms that Europeans prefer to use. So those that actually live in some of those areas Americans call "Eastern Europeans" actually consider themselves "Central Europeans". Meeting them on the street and calling them an "Eastern European".... Well.... those might be fighting words.... 









Central Europe - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Something to think about. Just saying....


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## winemaker81 (Apr 6, 2022)

balatonwine said:


> Many "Americans" miss-label "Eastern Europeans" and "Central Europeans".


I never realized that. Thanks for the post!

EDIT: I found this on Wikipedia -- the visual really helps me.


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