# Pop Quiz - Yeast



## jgmann67 (Sep 1, 2018)

Contemplating a Zinfandel (OV) from fresh grapes this year. So far I’ve done PS, Cab, Merlot and a PV... and had difficulty with MLF with each. 

So, I’m looking for a yeast that’s good with a hearty Zin, and that will promote a successful MLF (likely using Beta). 

Thoughts???


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## salcoco (Sep 1, 2018)

visit scottlabs.com fermentation handbook has all kinda of guidance on yeast and MLF choices


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## balatonwine (Sep 1, 2018)

Pop quiz answer: Yeast 1245-XYZ.

Wrong answer? Meh. It was just a pop quiz. C'est la vie. I was out partying last night. Did not study. 

Seems more like an important question. Requiring some empirical research based on local needs and conditions to get it right. Such as slacoco's suggestions. 

Yes, being a PITA, but doing so to make a point. There are lots of short short cuts to make wine, but there are no short answers to make a great wine.


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## pgentile (Sep 1, 2018)

My 2017 Zin, I went with RC 212 yeast and VP41 MLB. RC212 needs to be fed.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 1, 2018)

If this is an open book quiz here's my cheat sheet.

http://www.scottlabsltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Yeast_MLFCompatibility_Dec10.pdf


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## jgmann67 (Sep 1, 2018)

I was just looking at RC212. Was just looking for input from those who have done an OVZ - what worked well, what did not. Glad to see D254 on there - used that with my ps two years ago. Very solid fermenter - White Labs MLB didn’t do anything, but some VP took off like a rocket. 

I’m doing a coinoculation this time.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 1, 2018)

From what I've been reading from others co inoculation seems to work well for everyone. The only co inoculation I've done was be default when I used boatboy Jim's skins on a Carmenere bucket. MLF was complete with AF. I'll co ferment eventually but for no particular reason I'm sticking with separate inoculations. I've used D80, D254, 71B, RC212, CLOS and R56 with no issues the last 2 seasons. But I never added SO2 and White Labs sucks.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 1, 2018)

I know you won't want to hear it, but BM4X4, coinoculate w/ VP41.

Oh, here: https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wyeastpair.pdf


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## sour_grapes (Sep 1, 2018)

I am a big fan of D254. Could be (most likely is?) a coincidence, but most of my best wines (mostly from kits) were made with D254. Have not made a Zin with it, but the MoreWine pairing that Jim posted suggests, for Zin:



> ICV-D254: Big mouthfeel and rounding of tannins. Intense fruit: more dried than fresh, emphasizing plum and berry. Helps with colour stability and is useful for adding body to blends.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 2, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> I know you won't want to hear it, but BM4X4, coinoculate w/ VP41.
> 
> Oh, here: https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wyeastpair.pdf



Nope. I really like BM4x4. But, it doesn't seem to like me very much.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 2, 2018)

Have you thought about Assmanhausen (AMH)? Craig has used it and I'm sure could advise you. I understand it is a good Zin yeast.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 2, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Have you thought about Assmanhausen (AMH)? Craig has used it and I'm sure could advise you. I understand it is a good Zin yeast.
> 
> View attachment 50674



AMH and D254 look like they produce similar results. AMH seems like a slower fermenter that needs more attention. Both are very good for MLF. The AMH... (giggle).


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## GEM (Sep 2, 2018)

BM4x4 works fine, but it does need nutrients, as do most of the yeasts. Be careful of coinoculation of yeast and MLF. They can compete with each other. Add MLF after ferment has dropped a few Brix. Just my two cents worth.


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## pgentile (Sep 2, 2018)

I have co-inoculated with RC-212/VP41, RC-212/CH16, BM4x4/VP41 and BM4x4/CH16 all have completed fine. Charts say that BM4x4 is not as MLF friendly but went fine for me.

Both yeasts and MLF's need their respective nutrients.

RC-212 will give you some odors during the process that will make you hesitate, but in the end comes through. Only issue I had was with a low a pH Malbec that I made the mistake of not addressing prior to primary.


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## ceeaton (Sep 2, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Have you thought about Assmanhausen (AMH)? Craig has used it and I'm sure could advise you. I understand it is a good Zin yeast.
> 
> View attachment 50674


I was going to say that! Three benefits I see, slow fermentation so nice skin extraction, I had a quick MLF (two weeks - remember that was the one you were surprised it got done so fast), and a spicy note to the flavor. I don't think it is any harder to feed than RC-212 was, you just have to remember it's a slow, slow fermenter and not add the second half of the nutrient too early.


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## crushday (Oct 26, 2020)

@ceeaton - Craig, I'm considering AMH for a batch of Pinot Noir that I'm starting this weekend. I understand it to be pretty needy... Any advise? Planning on using FermAid and GoFerm in concert...


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## cmason1957 (Oct 26, 2020)

I have used AMH a few times for hybrid grapes, Chambourcin and St. Vincent. I really like what it brings to the ferments, just a hint of spiciness. It does like a bit more nutrition than some other yeasts. I believe I last used 1.5 times the normal rate for Fermaid. In not sure what your comment about GoFerm and nutrition was. GoFerm is for yeast rehydration and doesn't really provide extra nutrition beyond that.


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## ceeaton (Oct 27, 2020)

crushday said:


> @ceeaton - Craig, I'm considering AMH for a batch of Pinot Noir that I'm starting this weekend. I understand it to be pretty needy... Any advise? Planning on using FermAid and GoFerm in concert...


I agree with what @cmason1957 said, keep the nutrition up. I use the organic version so that you can add it longer into the ferment w/o worrying about the yeast not being able to use the inorganic version.

Craig, the GoFerm will help protect the yeast longer in the increasing alcohol environment and hopefully finish. I always have some EC-1118 around just in case it craps out.


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## zadvocate (Oct 29, 2020)

I have been co-inoculating my reds and I’ve had no problems. MLF completes by the time the wine is dry. Add your yeast then 24 hours later add MLB, make sure you have appropriate nutrients added too (opti malo plus) and it should work without a problem. This year I use D254 yeast and VP41.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 29, 2020)

crushday said:


> @ceeaton - Craig, I'm considering AMH for a batch of Pinot Noir that I'm starting this weekend. I understand it to be pretty needy... Any advise? Planning on using FermAid and GoFerm in concert...



Attached is my progress chart for a Tannat I have going. The pH is really low at under 3.2 and I was concerned about it's progress which is why I'm taking almost daily readings. The AMH per Scott Labs is a slow fermenter with a low nutrient demand. I was concerned about the AMH and Syrah and although they are slightly behind I'm really not concerned at this point.


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## franc1969 (Oct 30, 2020)

This chart makes me feel so much better about my recent fermentations. I used Syrah on Syrah, AMH on Zinfandel. Both from juice- the progress was about what is on your chart. I was pretty concerned that I had done something odd- AMH went faster than I thought and SYR slower, based on ScottLabs descriptions of 'slow' and 'moderate'. I am interested in how MLF goes with the different yeasts- do you keep runs separately through aging, or press and age altogether in the same carboys?
As far as nutrient goes- I actually found no issues when I missed the last addition of nutrients for all yeasts- this was juice so might be different with grapes. I ended up using just the package suggested amount, when I had planned 1.5x as cmason1957 says.



mainshipfred said:


> Attached is my progress chart for a Tannat I have going. The pH is really low at under 3.2 and I was concerned about it's progress which is why I'm taking almost daily readings. The AMH per Scott Labs is a slow fermenter with a low nutrient demand. I was concerned about the AMH and Syrah and although they are slightly behind I'm really not concerned at this point.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 31, 2020)

franc1969 said:


> This chart makes me feel so much better about my recent fermentations. I used Syrah on Syrah, AMH on Zinfandel. Both from juice- the progress was about what is on your chart. I was pretty concerned that I had done something odd- AMH went faster than I thought and SYR slower, based on ScottLabs descriptions of 'slow' and 'moderate'. I am interested in how MLF goes with the different yeasts- do you keep runs separately through aging, or press and age altogether in the same carboys?
> As far as nutrient goes- I actually found no issues when I missed the last addition of nutrients for all yeasts- this was juice so might be different with grapes. I ended up using just the package suggested amount, when I had planned 1.5x as cmason1957 says.



Simply due to the quantities and carboy sizes I can't keep them separate. I wish I could but I just mix them together after press. I sometimes skip nutrients as well but with the low pH I wanted to take every precaution.


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