# What would You do if you were me????



## Tnuscan (Feb 9, 2016)

Ok... I was told CO2 is what I needed to fill my headspace until bottling.

It will create a blanket on the surface of your wine and push the oxygen out, after fermentation. (Sounded good to me)..

So I bought a, 7 pound bottle with a regulator, and hose. I was ready to take my presents from Christmas-Kits-,(because I was a good boy in "15") and buy some fruits ,and concentrates, and fill my carboys.

And that's what I did, ALL OF THEM. (13)...

And then, I, (for some strange reason), checked back into this forum,( I had forgotten about joining 4 years earlier), And I found out, ( what I was told was wrong)...Whatttt???? 


I can return Co2 setup for store credit.. AND...

Option 1: Get 3 or 4 cans of Private Reserve and 4 to 5 smaller carboys and work down (slowly) until bottling...

Option 2: Get 2 more Wine Kits (with store credit) and Buy- 10- more "Headspace Eliminators" and Vacuum until bottling.. 

Option 3: Get 2 more Wine Kits Leave 6 inches of headspace for 14 to 25 days and bottle..

==ONLY 3 OPTIONS== --WHAT WOULD YOU DO--??????? (Pick ---1---2---- 3)

A gift will be given and (randomly) picked out of the answers. And you will be contacted by Posting on here and (or) contact me. 

This is not a prank or a scam (so lets have some fun)...

Thanks!!!


NOTE: dralarms was the Winner !!! Everyone that picked an option name was written down folded and placed in a container and, drawn by another person. 

I want to thank everyone for their help. I have used everyone's advise.


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## Brian55 (Feb 9, 2016)

Option 1 is the clear choice..


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## Tnuscan (Feb 9, 2016)

Brian55 said:


> Option 1 is the clear choice..



Thank you!!

May I ask why?


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## sour_grapes (Feb 10, 2016)

I would take the two additional wine kits. I would top off the other carboys with a similar wine.


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## dralarms (Feb 10, 2016)

I'd do option 2. The head space eliminator is great.


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## cmason1957 (Feb 10, 2016)

I would go with Option 2, if you are adding much longer than the 14 or so days you indicate. I would go with option 3 given that time frame.


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## vacuumpumpman (Feb 10, 2016)

I like option 2
Even if you have to flood the headspace with Co2 and then add the headspace eliminator onto it. That is double protection then , the Co2 will come out when you do your next vacuum transfer.


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## JohnT (Feb 10, 2016)

IMHO, Option 3 is not really an option. I would never advise leaving that much head space under any circumstances. 

I would also add option 4: Take the store credit, invest in a press and destemmer, and gear up to make wine from fresh grapes in April/May (when the Chilean grapes come in).


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## DoctorCAD (Feb 10, 2016)

First, who told you that CO2 was OK for topping off? They need to lose their home winemakers union card!

Home winemakers spend untold hours and many dollars REMOVING CO2 from their wines, close to half of all the posts on this and other wine making forums deal with getting the gas out of the wine.

If it was me, I'd opt for the Headspace Eliminator, but I'd also suggest buying a couple of boxes of a "neutral" wine and top off the current carboys. You'd get full carboys and some cheap wine for drinking when you get done topping off. Can't lose!

What'd I win?


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## esharmon (Feb 10, 2016)

*Newbie answer*

I've just started my wine making adventure, so take this with a grain of salt. I have an all-in-one pump with the head space eliminator. I love the all-in-one ... it is a great pump. But the head space eliminator needs to be taken with a grain of salt. What matters is the total amount of oxygen available to the wine:

1. Volume, volume, volume. If you have 2 inches of head space with a 3 inch diameter neck, you have a total volume of air of about 14 cubic inches. If you have more head space, there is much more air, because the neck of the carboy gets wider faster.

2. Pressure: A typical vacuum pump pulls around -20 in Hg. Atmospheric pressure is about 30 in Hg, so a vacuum pump reduces the pressure in the bottle to 10 in Hg. So the math is simple:
No vacuum: 30 in Hg @ 14 cubic inches of volume
With vacuum: 10 in Hg @ 14 cubic inches of volume

So, all the vacuum does is reduce the total amount of oxygen by a factor of 3, which is the same as what could be achieved by reducing the head space down to 2/3 inch.

While vacuum is better, elimination of total head space volume is critical.

Also, remember there is air in the neck of the bottle when bottling ... while it does not seem like much, 0.5 inch of air in the bottle for 30 bottles is a very similar amount of air to leaving 2 inches in the carboy.

I would opt for 2 more wine kits and build up inventory so you can let it age longer.

Eric


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## japaisley1 (Feb 10, 2016)

Option 1, I'd say it would be good to have a variety of sizes for carboys. Kinda wish I had some. In time... 
Plus, this option , you get to sample your wine as you go.


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## Floandgary (Feb 10, 2016)

KISS !!!! You DO plan on making more wines correct?? You do have several carboys and accessories correct??? Asking around I'd bet you'll find that the most common methods of eliminating headspace are by topping with a like wine, good water(no more than 1 L), smaller vessel. I prefer like wine,,, either cheaper store-bought or (even cheaper) something of my own!!! Just fill 'er up, pop in the airlock, and "fahgeddabahdit" KISS! You can then spend all that saved time sitting and staring at that carboy


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## RedRockGirl (Feb 10, 2016)

Option 1. "Only" 13 carboys, and they are filled. Time for more!


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## jensmith (Feb 11, 2016)

Option #1. More carboys of different sizes. Top up with wine, even if store bought. Or my favorite airspace soultion, rack to smaller jug, drink what does not fit.


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## Billpizzaiolo (Feb 11, 2016)

JohnT said:


> IMHO, Option 3 is not really an option. I would never advise leaving that much head space under any circumstances.
> 
> I would also add option 4: Take the store credit, invest in a press and destemmer, and gear up to make wine from fresh grapes in April/May (when the Chilean grapes come in).



That could be a beginning of the never ending collection of toys to make wine with fresh grapes. I vote for the write in vote #4.


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## Billpizzaiolo (Feb 11, 2016)

Additionally, I use Argon gas to replace the O2 in any headspace completely. Argon is not reactive nor is it toxic. Keep the CO2 bottle and regulator and use it to make beer.


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## JohnT (Feb 11, 2016)

Tnuscan, 

Let me make another case for my *Option #4* (get a destemmer and press).

Let me paint a mental picture.. 

Crush Day...

It is early in the AM on a clear warm autumn day. 

You rise, grab that first cup of coffee, and head outside to survey how you have set things up the night before. You see a slight mist of fog, but are content knowing that the sun will chase that fog away and provide the last remaining autumn's warmth.

You smile as you glance over at the grapes you purchased to day before. You tasted them and know that, this year, the wine will be superb. 

You finish your last sip of coffee, and head back into the house to grab another one. While in the kitchen, you grab the bagels and assorted things that you plan to set out for your guests. Just then, the doorbell rings, announcing that the first of the crew of family and friends have arrived. Each is carrying a dish of food which is their contribution to the feast later that day.

Now that you have a crew, you are ready to begin. You start by hosing down the equipment and then giving everything a nice spritz of K-meta. The crew knows what to do. They have come every year and no longer need to be told what to do. Without any word, the crew begins by sorting through the grapes, removing any leaves or foreign matter. From there, the grapes are carried to the destemmer. 

You have to keep from dancing when you get that first whiff of heaven. That glorious aroma that comes rises up as soon as the grapes are dumped into the destemmer. You marvel in the hypnotic rhythm of the grapes passing through the rollers and screen, and the splat-splat-splat of the newly formed must as it is deposited into a waiting tote. 

You then take a moment to survey the fact that all around you are having a great, unique time. In short order, all of the grapes have been processed, and everything has been cleaned and put away. You see that the good times continue. You reward all of your hard workers by opening the best of your past vintages. After a quick toast to this year's vintage, you herd all of the folks to the patio for a late lunch. Good times and laughs continue as more and more corks get pulled. 

After everybody has stuffed themselves, you gather to a tent that you have set up (a 30'X10' pop up) for more wine and cigars. Someone has brought a guitar and the next hours are spent singing and having a great time.

The party breaks up in the wee hours of the morning. You yell "see you next week for the pressing!" and you know that they are more than willing to come next week. You happily turn in and dream of the wine to come....


*I vote for option #4!*


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## JohnT (Feb 11, 2016)

Billpizzaiolo said:


> Additionally, I use Argon gas to replace the O2 in any headspace completely. Argon is not reactive nor is it toxic. Keep the CO2 bottle and regulator and use it to make beer.


 
Bill, 

- This will never replace all of the O2 in your head space. You will only get a mix of O2 and argon. The best thing to do is to top-up your secondary fermenter with wine..


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## ibglowin (Feb 11, 2016)

If you use a combination of vacuuming out the headspace then back filling (flushing with argon) you can remove ALL of the O2 in the headspace and I do mean ALL

This is what we do at work. We have two large inert glove boxes that have argon atmospheres as we work with some "interesting materials". 

We measure the O2 on a weekly basis and the results are around 3ppm O2.

Is this worth it for making wine? That is up to each winemaker I suppose and the depths of their pocketbook.


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## Steve_M (Feb 11, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Tnuscan,
> 
> Let me make another case for my *Option #4* (get a destemmer and press).
> 
> ...



John,
This past Fall was our first crush, not as elaborate or festive as yours.
We actually did our crush Friday evening, when finished, sat out by the fire pit, drinking last years wine.
The picture you paint is a work of art!

Steve


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## Billpizzaiolo (Feb 12, 2016)

Everyone loves to drink our wine but when it comes to doing the work at Crush, sadly, they fade out. Too much work cleaning setting up, crushing and taking down. No matter what we feed them. As for chipping in to buy the grape or picking the little bit here on the vine everyone is too busy. I have resigned myself to DIY and share later when we fire up the wood-fired pizza oven. We have no problem attracting people when there is free food, wine & beer with no work attached.


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## JohnT (Feb 12, 2016)

Billpizzaiolo said:


> Everyone loves to drink our wine but when it comes to doing the work at Crush, sadly, they fade out. Too much work cleaning setting up, crushing and taking down. No matter what we feed them. As for chipping in to buy the grape or picking the little bit here on the vine everyone is too busy. I have resigned myself to DIY and share later when we fire up the wood-fired pizza oven. We have no problem attracting people when there is free food, wine & beer with no work attached.


 
No so with us. The whole crush is about 5 hours of work with 14 hours of partying. I have folks that come up from Florida and Georgia to attend. 

This keeps me motivated..


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## Dhaynes (Feb 13, 2016)

I would vote for option 2. We seem to end up doing one of three things to eliminate head space 1) top off with a similar wine. 2) add sanitized glass marbles/decorative aquarium stone to raise the wine level (add slowly and carefully if you have a glass carboy to avoid breakage) 3) rack to a smaller carboy. About a 40/40/20 split. Depends on how much headspace there is and whether or not we have a similar wine.


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## barbiek (Feb 13, 2016)

In reference to post 17 JohnT that was pure poetry! How awesome!


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Tnuscan,
> 
> Let me make another case for my *Option #4* (get a destemmer and press).
> 
> ...



This makes me want to make a 10 hour drive in like seven. lol

The de-stemmer/press is in the makings. Like the way you think.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

sour_grapes said:


> I would take the two additional wine kits. I would top off the other carboys with a similar wine.



I like your thinking, I will use this method in the future.

I had thought of doing this, but I was looking at buying a lot of wine. 

I also should have posted I had 170.00 store credit, And a budget of around 130.00.

I guess ,I just thought the reader would figure that out, by using the 3 options.

Learned another good lesson(think ahead, don't just do). lol

Thanks


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

dralarms said:


> I'd do option 2. The head space eliminator is great.



Yes I too believe these are awesome. I had 3 ordered, they were stuck in the mail somehow but, I eventually received them. 

Noticed we are fairly close neighbors.

Thanks for your reply


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

cmason1957 said:


> I would go with Option 2, if you are adding much longer than the 14 or so days you indicate. I would go with option 3 given that time frame.



The process I used, wasn't given the thought that it needed. lol

I saw all that headspace and " Freaked Out"..

Thanks for your reply


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

JohnT said:


> IMHO, Option 3 is not really an option. I would never advise leaving that much head space under any circumstances.
> 
> I would also add option 4: Take the store credit, invest in a press and destemmer, and gear up to make wine from fresh grapes in April/May (when the Chilean grapes come in).



I agree with you on the headspace,(put in lots of study time on this one), and I always look forward to your advice. 

However, I like Option 5: Just getting you to de-stem and press them for me .Lol

Many thanks


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## dralarms (Feb 13, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> Yes I too believe these are awesome. I had 3 ordered, they were stuck in the mail somehow but, I eventually received them.
> 
> Noticed we are fairly close neighbors.
> 
> Thanks for your reply



Yep, I get over that way some.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

DoctorCAD said:


> First, who told you that CO2 was OK for topping off? They need to lose their home winemakers union card!
> 
> Home winemakers spend untold hours and many dollars REMOVING CO2 from their wines, close to half of all the posts on this and other wine making forums deal with getting the gas out of the wine.
> 
> ...



Hmm, Interesting! You've covered the bases.

I was misinformed, and these forums are full of this question, scattered throughout many posts.

My thought of reasoning was, if it protects during fermentation, why not after. So I made the purchase.

Many answered posts and some study made me realize a different perspective.

Never even thought of the wine boxes, I just thought, lots money buying bottled wines. (Good one)..

Great reply I enjoyed it!


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

esharmon said:


> I've just started my wine making adventure, so take this with a grain of salt. I have an all-in-one pump with the head space eliminator. I love the all-in-one ... it is a great pump. But the head space eliminator needs to be taken with a grain of salt. What matters is the total amount of oxygen available to the wine:
> 
> 1. Volume, volume, volume. If you have 2 inches of head space with a 3 inch diameter neck, you have a total volume of air of about 14 cubic inches. If you have more head space, there is much more air, because the neck of the carboy gets wider faster.
> 
> ...



I agree, thanks for doing the math. I also like the comparing of the bottle space to the carboy top up space, hadn't given that any thought.

Thanks


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

japaisley1 said:


> Option 1, I'd say it would be good to have a variety of sizes for carboys. Kinda wish I had some. In time...
> Plus, this option , you get to sample your wine as you go.



I agree with you also. I love to sample the wine. I believe I was born to do this for a living, just haven't made the right connection yet.(fingers crossed).

Pondering on "a variety of sizes of carboys", I realized there have been times I finished the fermentation in a 6 then went to a 5. On another I had to leave behind more sediment (gross lees), and had to go to a 3 and a 1. So for every 6 I have: I'll get a 5, a 3, and a couple 1's..

Thanks


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

Floandgary said:


> KISS !!!! You DO plan on making more wines correct?? You do have several carboys and accessories correct??? Asking around I'd bet you'll find that the most common methods of eliminating headspace are by topping with a like wine, good water(no more than 1 L), smaller vessel. I prefer like wine,,, either cheaper store-bought or (even cheaper) something of my own!!! Just fill 'er up, pop in the airlock, and "fahgeddabahdit" KISS! You can then spend all that saved time sitting and staring at that carboy



How about we just hold hands. I never KISS on the first post. lol

I understand your thoughts, and I agree with the wine for topping off, however I like my water in a different glass. 

Thanks for your reply.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

RedRockGirl said:


> Option 1. "Only" 13 carboys, and they are filled. Time for more!



Thanks. lol. That little banana loves to dance, like me after a couple glasses. 

I agree, more will be needed.

Thanks!!!


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## vacuumpumpman (Feb 13, 2016)

here is a great post on Elimination of O2 in Carboy Headspace with a Vacuum Pump (real world data)

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52462

from 200,000 ppm down to 55 ppm of oxygen using the headspace eliminator


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

jensmith said:


> Option #1. More carboys of different sizes. Top up with wine, even if store bought. Or my favorite airspace soultion, rack to smaller jug, drink what does not fit.



Thanks, getting this answer the most I believe. And I love to drink what does not fit too.

If I didn't take a wee little bit from the top, I could also eliminate more headspace too. But then...Oops told on myself. lol.

Thanks!!


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

Billpizzaiolo said:


> That could be a beginning of the never ending collection of toys to make wine with fresh grapes. I vote for the write in vote #4.



You guys there just wasn't enough room for a #4.lol But I do like it.

Thanks for your reply!


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> If you use a combination of vacuuming out the headspace then back filling (flushing with argon) you can remove ALL of the O2 in the headspace and I do mean ALL
> 
> This is what we do at work. We have two large inert glove boxes that have argon atmospheres as we work with some "interesting materials".
> 
> ...



This is very interesting, I am going to check on, argon, there is the issue with the pocketbook however.

Thanks!


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

Dhaynes said:


> I would vote for option 2. We seem to end up doing one of three things to eliminate head space 1) top off with a similar wine. 2) add sanitized glass marbles/decorative aquarium stone to raise the wine level (add slowly and carefully if you have a glass carboy to avoid breakage) 3) rack to a smaller carboy. About a 40/40/20 split. Depends on how much headspace there is and whether or not we have a similar wine.



Can't use marbles lost them long ago, that's why I have so much headspace. 

That is a good idea, but too much work for me.

Like " racking to smaller carboy".

Thanks!


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

vacuumpumpman said:


> here is a great post on Elimination of O2 in Carboy Headspace with a Vacuum Pump (real world data)
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52462
> 
> from 200,000 ppm down to 55 ppm of oxygen using the headspace eliminator



Thanks! I figured it had to pull everything out, before it started on the liquid, but I'm not as educated as I would like to be, just an "ole country boy".. with too much headspace.


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## jensmith (Feb 13, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> Can't use marbles lost them long ago, that's why I have so much headspace.




That explains many people I know.....


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## Tnuscan (Feb 13, 2016)

jensmith said:


> That explains many people I know.....



LoL. Same here, I love it..

The marbles are a great idea, I am going to get some just to have another back up plan. They may even help from picking up as much sediment when racking off the gross lees. Hmm., another experiment. Maybe I do over think,... I'll have to give it some thought.


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## vacuumpumpman (Feb 13, 2016)

Just be careful when dropping marbles in a glass vessel that it does not break it. It happened to me - 

You can take a stocking and gently lower them in so they don't hit the bottom soo hard


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## Tnuscan (Feb 14, 2016)

vacuumpumpman said:


> Just be careful when dropping marbles in a glass vessel that it does not break it. It happened to me -
> 
> You can take a stocking and gently lower them in so they don't hit the bottom soo hard



Wow!!! I just realized that on my first racking Off of the gross lees, which I usually do manually, and placing a book under one side of the carboy(tilting), @ 3/4 thru the process, and using a small flashlight to see when I'm starting to draw up the lees in dark wines, the AllInOne, would actually make this easier because I could just lift the racking cane, let the lees settle then re-insert the cane and automatically start the racking instead of re-siphoning again, (picking up less sediment).

So now I will use my AllInOne from start to finish. No need for marbles, no need for argon, the AllInOne , Racks, Degasses, and Eliminates headspace with the "Head Space Eliminator". This all being made possible just from the " All In One " vacuum pump. 

I'll just save the stocking and use it when making my "worm tea" for my gardening.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 17, 2016)

The winner was dralarms. 

Names were written, folded, and placed in a container, shaken, and drawn by another person. Everyone was a winner because all answers were great ones and I used each. Used headspace elininator, topped up, and argon and bought Wine kits.
I really enjoyed the answers they made me think, always have a backup!!


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## dralarms (Feb 18, 2016)

Thank you.. honestly didn't realize that I entered a contest. I was just trying to help a fellow wine maker.


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## JohnT (Feb 18, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> The winner was dralarms.
> 
> Names were written, folded, and placed in a container, shaken, and drawn by another person. Everyone was a winner because all answers were great ones and I used each. Used headspace elininator, topped up, and argon and bought Wine kits.
> I really enjoyed the answers they made me think, always have a backup!!



You disappoint me sir...


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## Tnuscan (Feb 18, 2016)

JohnT said:


> You disappoint me sir...



Lol. I truly understand, often times I disappoint myself.

My bet was that, the winner would live in the Northern U.S. Your post has made me realize, while I do like fruit wines, (adding sugars), my true Joy in wine is and will always lie within the grape. 

Your post, (which was my favorite), has me looking into purchasing a crusher/de-stemmer and a press. Oh yes, and coffee... Thanks again for the nudge.

So the BEST POST AWARD goes to  -----JohnT-----


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## Tnuscan (Feb 18, 2016)

JohnT said:


> You disappoint me sir...



Why do I disappoint you, JohnT?


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## barbiek (Feb 18, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> This makes me want to make a 10 hour drive in like seven. lol
> 
> The de-stemmer/press is in the makings. Like the way you think.



Makes me wish I was part of the JohnTs family! Lol


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