# Has anyone else had trouble with Red Star Champagne yeast?



## arcticsid

This is the third time, and last.

I went to make a yeast starter for the new Pee. Rehydrated the Champagne yeast as always. After 20 minutes I stirred it and added about 1/2 cup of Pee, it just kind of sat there. After feeding it a few more times over the course of a few hours no action.

I had a sachet of Cuvee in the fridge. I rehydrated it the same, same feeding, etc, it took off like a rocket.

I will be pitching it in a few more hours.

I did both exactly the same. Anyone have any ideas?

Personally, I wont be using the Red Star Brand of Champagne Yeast again(its in the yellow package).

I don't know much about the Lalvin brands but I am dissappointed in the Red Star Champagne.

Why would it not go? I thought it was a pretty "tough" yeast, aparently not.

Troy


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## Racer

I have used both lalvin and red star brands in the past(far more lalvin though). Was the pack within its expiration date? Had it been stored properly its whole life time? Was the water temp. used to re-hydrate low enough not to hurt the little guys? If all the above answers are a big YES then. Dont be too harsh on red star from one bad pack, their product does make some good wines. Sorry you had a problem but at least you had something in reserve to fall back on.


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## Wade E

Troy, you have to know by now that each yeats ahs many different reactions and lag times! Red Star Cotes des Blanc is by far the slowest and can take up to 3 days to actually show any signs of fernentation. Champagne is probably the next slowest but these are not bad things! With white wines and lighter fruit wines you do *not* want a vigorous fast fermentation cause it will burn out all the flavors(fruity esters) in the wine and youll also want to ferment it cooler also so as not to do this either. With big red wines you typically want a fast vigorous fermentation cause you usually doen want these fruity tastes to come through. It all depends on what you want your outcome to be.


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## djrockinsteve

I have never had success with Red Star. However I did not know that it may take 3 days to start.


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## arcticsid

I am talking about the starter, not the addition of the starter to the must. This is the third time I have tried the RS Champagne yeast and just couldn't get it to go in the STARTER!!!

Good old cuvee!! It grew in the starter nice,fed it for about 24 hrs and just pitched it, no question the Pee will be bubbling in just the next couple hours.

Yes it is fresh yeast and has been staored properly, rehydrated it at 105F as always.

Just my luck with RS Champagne, not bad mouthing it by any means, just lost my confidance in it.


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## Wade E

105* is way to hot especially since most thermometrs are not accurate enough and a few degrees more will kill most yeast strains at that point. I do mine around 85* and have never had a problem ever. I have had problems with one Lalvin yeast strain and so did many others and they didnt want to admit to it until lots of us on another forum complained and they finally agreed to a bad batch about 3 years back and pulled that batch off the shelf.


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## arcticsid

Really?! The difference between 105 and 85 is alot! Why do they recomment rehydrating betwen 100 and 105, if those temps could be so dangerous?


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## Wade E

There are lots of instructions out there you really shouldnt follow. Take a look at the instructions for the Mosti Mondiale win e kits and youll know why everyone who follows these instructions ends up with a wine volcano shooting out of their carboy. I just looked at the instructions on my packet Troy and it says 97*-102*!!!!!!!! Here are the instructions and they are right on our site!!!!!!!!!

Preparation:
Red Star® Active Dry Wine Yeast may be used with or without prior rehydration. For best results, add 1 kg. dry yeast to 5-10 liters of water or must at 36°- 39°C (97°- 102°F). After 10-20 minutes, the yeast is ready to use. Yeast activity will be reduced with higher or lower temperatures, or by prolonged soaking. Temper rehydrated yeast by adding small amounts of cool juice prior to inoculating. Warm, freshly rehydrated yeast may not survive inoculation into juice that is significantly colder.
For direct addition at temperatures above 20°C (68°F) the pellets can be sprinkled onto the surface of the liquid followed by agitation, or be added to the pump intake while pumping over.


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## arcticsid

I read the back of the sachet and it says to rehydrate in 1/4 cup of water between 100-105F. I agree, I would much rather follow the advice of those who have went before me. But I have never had trouble getting a yeast to get going through the rehydration. Stuck fermentations on the must are a different story.

But I have always folowed the manufacturers advice on the back of the sachet and have never had trouble with the yeast except the RS Champagne.

Good advice on your post though Wade. I have seen alot of questions in here regarding no go fermentations, and I know well alot of it has to do with the original preperation, and introduction of the yeast to the must.

Troy


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## Wade E

I dont do rehydration anyways as we have discussed on this forum. I either just sprikle or make a starter. The starter is the way to go nad rehydration in my opinion is a waste of time and energy. The instructions on my packet of yeast are the same as yours as I was actually reading the instructions on the Cotes Des Blanc by accident so sorry about that! I got the 2 confused as Im in the middle of brewing a beer at the minute I was doing that and involved on my other wine forum. Too much at once. If I were to rehydrate I would stay in the middle not at the very highest point though at 105*.


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## Midwest Vintner

i've had trouble with red star a few times. could be handling, but IMO they don't have as good of quality as the lalvin. the cotes is the best and i do still use it (and even sometimes the champaign yeasts), but not as much as the lalvin brand. typically, i use certain types of yeast to see how they fare in different wines. from my experiences with the red star, it's just not as strong of a starter. i did have a D47 lalvin not start up so well, but it was in cranberry, which can be a tricky one. went with another lalvin product (iirc 1116) and it went like wild fire.

certain wines can be harder to start, so remembering that might aid in your decision on what yeast will do the trick.


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## Torch404

Locally I can only pickup Lavin yeast and it has strong and consistent start for me no problems ferments very fast.


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## koda_ky

Troy
I use red star champagne quite a bit as I make alot of Fruit wines and as Wade said it usually takes a little longer ( sometimes 2 to 3 days ) to really get going. Hope this helps.


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## arcticsid

koda, you are misunderstanding me. i didn't say i had trouble getting it to ferment in the must!!!!!

I said i could even begin to get it started as a STARTER!!

What I said is two different fermenting questions.

Troy


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## St Allie

hmm hmmms.. 

watches Troy on the couch and gets out her notepad...

and when did you notice these strange yeast behaviours Troy?

does it look like this ink blot?... nods.. nods..

( scribbles a prescription for lalvin EC 1118)

times up..!!

we'll continue this conversation at your next appointment

Allie


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## arcticsid

Cmon G, I thought we were pals, as long as you got the pad out give some good stuff. Sometimes yeast just doesn't get it.

I know the equivelant of 1118. I didn't ask for an equivelant. I asked if anyone else had a problem with the RS Champagne in particular. My LHBS carries the 1118 because this forum recommended it, next time I need the type of strain like a champagne yeast it will be the 1118 that I buy.

The good old RS Cuvee came through again and my Pee is bubbling away strong.

When it is time to ferment the blossoms I can get, it will be the RS Cotes de Blanc. Just dissapointed by this particullar strain offered by RS.


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## St Allie

well... like Torch.. I can only get the lalvin strains. So can only really endorse those.

I've never used the one you are having issues with.

Allie


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## arcticsid

Like I said, I got my local LHBS to carry Lalvin because of the recommendations in here, and they do.

I like the Cotes de Blanc because Wade and some of the others recommended it.

Just real dissappointed in the results of this particular strain of RS. But I am not going to give it another chance. I very well could have bought the 1118. I assure you next time I "pee". thats what I will be using! LOL

Troy


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## mmadmikes1

I believe(anyone can correct me)1118 and Cuvee are the same strain just diff manufactures. Not sure but think so. I have less troble with Red Star I believe because I always get it fresh. The HBS in Bellingham sell it alot. I get Lalvin in Abbortsford and the lady sell a lot of kits doing FOP so how long the yeast sits before I buy it is questionable, while the HBS sells no kits and RS is always new


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## arcticsid

MY LHBS gets it fresh and keeps it in a controled fridege.

Whatever the reason RS Cahmp just doesn't like me.

Thats all. I was just wondering if it was just me or if anyone else has had troubele with this particular strain.

Guess its just me.


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## Midwest Vintner

arcticsid said:


> MY LHBS gets it fresh and keeps it in a controled fridege.
> 
> Whatever the reason RS Cahmp just doesn't like me.
> 
> Thats all. I was just wondering if it was just me or if anyone else has had troubele with this particular strain.
> 
> Guess its just me.



no, i've had it happen atleast 4 times with red star, but we order online alot and who knows exactly how it was handled. that said, we order both of them from the same vendor and the lalvin just seems to be more tolerant. the d47 was the first lalvin to fail me.


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## mmadmikes1

It is just you Troy, the yeast knows your not going to let it in grapes to play


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## koda_ky

arcticsid said:


> koda, you are misunderstanding me. i didn't say i had trouble getting it to ferment in the must!!!!!
> 
> I said i could even begin to get it started as a STARTER!!
> 
> What I said is two different fermenting questions.
> 
> Troy



Sorry Troy 
I misunderstood the question.. I thought it was just the champagne yeast. i have had red star montracet that would not and never did take off had to end up using ec 1118.


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## arcticsid

Mike, what is a grape? LOL


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## Racer

Troy (while looking with your good eye) check out the avatar under my screen name. Thats a grape cluster


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## Wade E

Did you win an award for that cluster or the wine made from it? Tell us a story please!


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## Racer

That is a cluster from my cayuga vines that I turned in to my county fair in 2004. The ribbons are for the grapes and for garlic that I also turned in for judging.

The next year(2005) I sent in a bottle of wine(from the same grapes) to the winemaker mag. competition and got a bronze medal for my effort.Not too bad for a wine made from the first harvest from the vines.


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## Wade E

Very nice Racer!


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## Racer

Thanks Wade. I hope to hear a similar story from your efforts with your currant bushes in the near future too.


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