# SCAM!!! On The Internet Targeting Us Wine Makers



## JoePacella (Dec 17, 2009)

Warninng This Guy Chris at *americanwinegrape.com* is selling all Kind of supplies. Here is how his scam works You place the order he charges your credit card and never ships the product. Then eleven days later you get a email saying it is out of stock.. Then when you call the guy he is a real JERK and tells you good luck geting your product or money. Then he says he is to busy for you and hangs up!!! BEWARE


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## arcticsid (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up.


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## TheTooth (Dec 17, 2009)

JoePacella said:


> Warninng This Guy Chris at *americanwinegrape.com* is selling all Kind of supplies. Here is how his scam works You place the order he charges your credit card and never ships the product. Then eleven days later you get a email saying it is out of stock.. Then when you call the guy he is a real JERK and tells you good luck geting your product or money. Then he says he is to busy for you and hangs up!!! BEWARE



I had this happen with another company (different hobby).

Your solution is to call your credit card company and report fraud. They will withhold payment from him. He won't like it, but he'll be forced to deal with your situation so they don't pull his merchant status. In my case, the woman who ran the other site refused to talk to me, but my credit card was "magically" refunded a few days later.


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## mmadmikes1 (Dec 17, 2009)

Here Here, That is why you use a CC for net orders always


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## whine4wine (Dec 17, 2009)

This is a good reason to avoid giving your credit card nmber to any one.
I always like to deal through PayPal whenever possible.


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## Torch404 (Dec 18, 2009)

I work in the credit card industry, right now. The term you want to tell your credit card company, is chargeback. This word also inspires fear in most merchants. 

some credit card companies will try and get you not to issue one as it involves work on their side but it is your RIGHT to do so. They will withdraw the money back out of the merhcants account, credit that money back to you, charge the merchant a fine 25-150$ for each chargeback, and if the merchant gets enough chargebacks Visa/MC will no longer let them accept CC's, ever. 

These are your rights use them. Paypal you are stuck with arbitaration and they are more likely to side with the merchant not you the customer.


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## Chateau Joe (Dec 18, 2009)

Torch404 said:


> I work in the credit card industry, right now. The term you want to tell your credit card company, is chargeback. This word also inspires fear in most merchants.
> 
> some credit card companies will try and get you not to issue one as it involves work on their side but it is your RIGHT to do so. They will withdraw the money back out of the merhcants account, credit that money back to you, charge the merchant a fine 25-150$ for each chargeback, and if the merchant gets enough chargebacks Visa/MC will no longer let them accept CC's, ever.
> 
> These are your rights use them. Paypal you are stuck with arbitaration and they are more likely to side with the merchant not you the customer.




Thanks for the information Torch!


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## TheTooth (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks for that info, Torch. I didn't know they penalized them financially as well. No wonder the merchant was so annoyed with me. I guess it was in their best interest to not hang up on me when I tried to resolve the issue the first few times. LOL

Quick question about the Paypal thing, though. When I have used PayPal (eBay, mostly), I fund it through my credit card. Do you know if I am able to do a chargeback against Paypal if they don't resolve my issue?


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## Torch404 (Dec 18, 2009)

I'm not sure how the credit card through pay pal works, as you are paying paypal and then paypal pays the merchant, which at least to credit card side is diffent then paying the merchant directly. An email to paypal might get you a better idea. I think even if you did the charge back you would still owe Paypal the money because they would have already paid the merchant.


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## TheTooth (Dec 18, 2009)

Interesting. That makes sense, I guess. Hopefully I never have to find out for sure.


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## smurfe (Dec 24, 2009)

We actually had a post where someone asked about that place a while back. Normally if you do a Google search of a unknown companies name you can find all kinds of info to help you decide if they are good to deal with or not. One more reason as I posted the other day, buy the vendor, not just the cheapest price of an online vendor as this happens more than you think. I am normally very leery of a vendor that has the lowest prices across the board. That means they have no overhead and are drop shipping and will take longer to get your stuff or use other less than straight up business practices. Some I can tell are straight up scams as I know the wholesale price of every item sold to these retailers.


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## smurfe (Dec 24, 2009)

I forgot to add, you can do a Chargeback through PayPal if you used your credit card. 

https://www.paypal.com/chargeback


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## wine (Dec 25, 2009)

On the internet or phone I use one time use credit card numbers . the one 
one I never use is discover when by phone or online ,, there so called one time use number 
can be used by that one company for one or two years , or ontil you call and tell them to cancel it .. all the others can only be used one time ..
this way they never get your real card number .. to get them ask your card company


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## smurfe (Dec 26, 2009)

wine said:


> On the internet or phone I use one time use credit card numbers . the one
> one I never use is discover when by phone or online ,, there so called one time use number
> can be used by that one company for one or two years , or ontil you call and tell them to cancel it .. all the others can only be used one time ..
> this way they never get your real card number .. to get them ask your card company



You used to be able to do something like this with PayPal. I don't know if you still can though. It was actually very nice. If you found a site that didn't take PayPal which many didn't, you could generate a one time Visa or Mastercard number that paid from your PayPal account. I used to use it all the time and really liked it.


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## wine (Dec 31, 2009)

I still use them all the time ,, CITI card has them so does discover ...
on citi card go up to tools and service then click on virtural numbers ...
on most cards they do have them ,, but you can only get them when you are in your account online .. if you cann't find it in the online account ,, call your card co. and ask how to get them ,, they are called "virtural numbers "" .. but like I said befor make sure it can only be used once ,cause like I said discover lets that one co. use it for a year unless you call in and cancel it


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