# 2 quick questions



## jinjo4444 (Jul 15, 2020)

This is my first time trying my own wine and I have a Chardonnay kit that has oak chips. As per the instructions in the kit it said to add them right away. The first fermentation should be completed this weekend and I'm going to rack it to the carboy, but I have no idea how to do this since the sediment will be on the bottom and the oak chips are floating on top. 

Another question, I completely skipped the part about taking the specific gravity when I first put it in the fermenter so I will have nothing to compare the hydrometer reading to. Does it matter or is it only to see the alcohol percentage difference?


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## sour_grapes (Jul 15, 2020)

Welcome to WMT.

You will find that it makes your life A LOT easier if you have a siphon. Most of us use an "autosiphon" like the one pictured below. If you cannot get that in time, you could get away with a simple piece of vinyl tubing if you are careful.

In a kit, the main reason to have the initial specific gravity is to get the ABV, as you say. Just make sure you have one when you are trying to judge completion.


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## pete1325 (Jul 15, 2020)

Taking the S G at the beginning is always better. But, now that your into it take a reading, note it and check it again before you rack to secondary. Make sure you are at around 1.000 before racking to secondary. Are you doing primary fermentation in a carboy or a bucket? If in a buck strain off the oak chips and put them in a strainer bag or cheese cloth with the ends tied off and put them back in the primary bucket until you rack to the carboy at S G 1.000-.999. If you want to continue to oak get some oak spirals. They are less of a pain when racking, taking S G. Make sure you tie them with some clean fishing line to the neck of the carboy. that makes it easier to rack later as well.


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## jinjo4444 (Jul 15, 2020)

Thank you so much! I know it's my first batch but I'd like to maybe not mess it up so I can have bragging rights with my friends/family lol.

I'm glad I found this place


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## pete1325 (Jul 15, 2020)

Welcome, that's why we do it!


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## hounddawg (Jul 16, 2020)

welcome to WMT  
Dawg


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## jinjo4444 (Jul 20, 2020)

Thanks 

Man I find this confusing. The instructions from the place I bought my equipment from (who have been around for 50 years so I would think they know what they're talking about), and the instructions in the wine kit itself are so different.

The brewing store instructions say to not transfer the sediment and to not let the wine splash into the carboy when racking, and the instructions in my kit say make sure to transfer all sediment and make sure to splash the wine into the carboy when racking. lol I think they are working in collaboration to make my head explode haha.

Also, I've heard many different ideas on filling the airlock half full with water, then I heard use vodka not water, then I heard use water mixed with potassium powder that came with the kit.

Which is correct, or does it matter?


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## Chuck E (Jul 20, 2020)

@jinjo4444
Wine kits have their instructions optimized for speed. They try to make a kit drinkable in 8 weeks. The brew shop is telling you what their customers probably do. 

In most cases, when transfering from the fermenting bucket you don't worry about the sediment. If some gets into the carboy, it will settle out pretty quick. If it splashes during the transfer it's OK. Freshly fermented wine has alot of CO2 gas dissolved in it. Splashing helps that to dissipate. 

Filling the airlock with something is the key here. Water is ok, vodka is better (because it kills bacteria & mold), and Potassium meta-bisulfite (Kmeta) dissolved in water is good too (just like vodka). If you plan on aging the wine, you need to make sure the airlock does not go dry. 

Personally, I plan on aging my wines for a minimum of 12 months, racking (transferring from one carboy to another) every 3 months. A good racking schedule is:
1. rack from fermentation to carboy.
2. 3 days later, rack from carboy to clean-sanitized carboy to get off the gross lees (sediment). 
3. 3 months later, rack from carboy to clean-sanitized carboy to get off the fine lees (sediment). Add 1/4 tsp. Kmeta per 5 gallons
And so on, until you are ready to bottle.


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## BernardSmith (Jul 21, 2020)

It strikes me that the kit manufacturers are not simply all about speed (tho that certainly comes into things) - After all they want customers to have an empty carboy that nags them into filling it again as soon as possible).. and that is the basis of the second reason for their instructions. And the kit manufacturers need to create customers who when making their first kit feel that they have had no problems and are eager to make a second or a third kit.

For experienced wine makers there are GOOD reasons to splash rack and there are GOOD reasons to transfer lees but for novice wine makers the best practices are the practices that are fail safe and are no fail... and the kit maker invariably creates their concentrates in such a way that the instructions they provide are fail safe.

But I wonder if the purpose of racking the sediment may be to encourage MLF if the kit is a red wine. Off flavors from the breakdown of dead yeast cells is what your LHBS staff are trying to prevent but if the wine is to be racked after a couple of weeks after pitching the yeast, autolysis is not going to be a major problem although leaving too much headroom might be...


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## joeswine (Jul 21, 2020)

which kit ask you to transfer the sediment?


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## jinjo4444 (Jul 21, 2020)

Vinifera Chardonnay which the brew shop recommended for my first try. (anyone know if this is any good?)



I racked it without the sediment and didn't splash. (I also went with the vodka in the airlock idea). Also, I totally agree to go more towards the fail safe kind of approach since I have no clue what I'm doing lol.

What's gross is that when I went in the room to rack it I noticed there were a few fruit flies hovering above the fermenter bucket. Luckily I had the lid set on there well enough they didn't get in or I would not have been a happy camper.


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## hounddawg (Jul 21, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> Vinifera Chardonnay which the brew shop recommended for my first try. (anyone know if this is any good?)
> 
> View attachment 63805
> 
> ...


aw they never drink all that much  
Dawg


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## BernardSmith (Jul 22, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> aw they never drink all that much
> Dawg



I agree, Those fruit flies don't drink more than a drop but they shed acetobacter like there is no tomorrow and in fact when they have brushed those bacteria from their clothes and made themselves all ship shape and bristol fashion there is no tomorrow as far as your wine is concerned. There is only vinegar.


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## hounddawg (Jul 22, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> I agree, Those fruit flies don't drink more than a drop but they shed acetobacter like there is no tomorrow and in fact when they have brushed those bacteria from their clothes and made themselves all ship shape and bristol fashion there is no tomorrow as far as your wine is concerned. There is only vinegar.


hum i was wondering why i have fly traps, fly strips, food grade Diatomaceous Earth, covering my wine room floors, peppermint extract put on cotton balls, water traps,  
Dawg


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## jinjo4444 (Jul 22, 2020)

Yikes, sign me up for some fly strips.


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## jinjo4444 (Jul 22, 2020)

I found this tip through Google. Have any of you tried this or is it false? Google doesn't ALWAYS tell the truth lol.
_
"A common issue I've seen in homebrew forums is regarding fruit flies getting into the airlock. Most airlocks have caps with tiny holes to let gas escape but large enough to let fruit flies in (then they drown in the sanitizer) 

I'd prefer they not get in at all so here's my air lock hack: Simply twist a napkin around the top portion of the cap!" _


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## winemaker81 (Jul 22, 2020)

Regarding racking sediment, I recall reading an article that stated the initial heavier sediment helps precipitate the finer sediment when using kieselsol/chitosan, which is commonly used in kits. I can't find the reference and can't verify if that is correct. However, it fits with the kit instructions and how kieselsol/chitosan work, so it's as good a theory as any.

In general, _follow the kit instructions_. It seems common for non-kit wine makers to use non-kit method on kit wines. As others have commented, kits are optimized to consistently produce a decent wine that the maker can be proud of, in a short period of time. There are differences in the methods and the instructions for all kits I'm familiar with are correct.

When making any wine (kit or non-kit), I don't fuss about sediment during the first 2 rackings. No, I don't intentionally move sediment to the new container, but I don't worry about a bit getting transferred. In recent years I use a fining agent for all wines (added after the 2nd racking), so that third racking is the one where I avoid racking sediment.

While I agree that kit vendors have a vested interest in keeping everyone's carboys full, there is also human nature. In the last year, how many newcomers have posted a question that is essentially, "I started my wine yesterday, when can I drink it?"  

Kits get the wine in the bottle ASAP, as they know their customers want to start drinking it. Hey! That's what we make wine for, right?

Of course, when the wine supply is diminishing, the carboy needs filling ....


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## joeswine (Jul 22, 2020)

Ask them to wear a mask


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## hounddawg (Jul 22, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> I found this tip through Google. Have any of you tried this or is it false? Google doesn't ALWAYS tell the truth lol.
> 
> _"A common issue I've seen in homebrew forums is regarding fruit flies getting into the airlock. Most airlocks have caps with tiny holes to let gas escape but large enough to let fruit flies in (then they drown in the sanitizer)
> 
> I'd prefer they not get in at all so here's my air lock hack: Simply twist a napkin around the top portion of the cap!" _


i have found naits in my S airlocks over the years around 3 times, yep it was back to potassium metabisulfite solution to sanitize the airlock and refill with solution yet again, 
Dawg


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## jinjo4444 (Jul 31, 2020)

I’m 4 days in to the clearing stage but I’ve got SO much sediment on the bottom. It looks like a sandy beach down there. Is this normal?


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## hounddawg (Jul 31, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> I’m 4 days in to the clearing stage but I’ve got SO much sediment on the bottom. It looks like a sandy beach down there. Is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 64230
> ,


yep it sure is,
Dawg


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## jinjo4444 (Jul 31, 2020)

Thanks. 

So do I bottle from here pulling the wine from the top of the carboy or do I have to rack again? And once I get close to the bottom IF I bottle from this stage do I just get as much as I can without sediment and throw the bottom sediment with an inch or two of wine above it away just to be safe?

sorry for so many questions, but I guess that’s what newbies do a lot lol.


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## KCCam (Jul 31, 2020)

Best is to rack to a clean carboy, leaving as much sediment as possible behind. Make sure you have the sediment tip on your racking cane. Slowly lower it as the carboy empties, so as not to disturb the sediment. With the amount you have shown you should be able to gently rest it on the bottom before the level drops that low. Watch for movement of the sediment towards the racking cane, and pull it up before any gets in there. Now you have a clear carboy you don't have to worry about jostling or bumping as you bottle. I would give it another couple of days in the clean carboy to make sure it is, in fact, finished dropping sediment. Personally, I dump the rest into a quart mason jar to settle out over the next week or two and get a couple glasses of clear wine as a reward.


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## sour_grapes (Aug 1, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> I’m 4 days in to the clearing stage but I’ve got SO much sediment on the bottom. It looks like a sandy beach down there. Is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 64230



Yes! When you "cleared," where else did you think the detritus was going to go? Looks good to me!


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## bstnh1 (Aug 1, 2020)

I would not bottle from this carboy or right after the next racking. You're almost guaranteed to pick up some sediment when you rack, even if you don't see it happening at the time. I would let it sit in the new carboy for at least a couple of weeks and then rack it again and bottle from there if it's clear. If you see more sediment drop, rack again and wait. Patience - the most critical ingredient in wine making!


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## Rocky (Aug 1, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> I’m 4 days in to the clearing stage but I’ve got SO much sediment on the bottom. It looks like a sandy beach down there. Is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 64230


It looks perfectly normal to me. You are doing great. I would probably rack at least 2 more times before bottling.


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## Sailor323 (Aug 1, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So do I bottle from here pulling the wine from the top of the carboy or do I have to rack again? And once I get close to the bottom IF I bottle from this stage do I just get as much as I can without sediment and throw the bottom sediment with an inch or two of wine above it away just to be safe?
> 
> sorry for so many questions, but I guess that’s what newbies do a lot lol.


I would rack and then bottle about 2 weeks later.


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## hounddawg (Aug 1, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So do I bottle from here pulling the wine from the top of the carboy or do I have to rack again? And once I get close to the bottom IF I bottle from this stage do I just get as much as I can without sediment and throw the bottom sediment with an inch or two of wine above it away just to be safe?
> 
> sorry for so many questions, but I guess that’s what newbies do a lot lol.


no like KCCam said rack to clean carboy, then bottle, or else one day it will bite you in the butt,,, UM questions both asked an/or answered is why we are here,,,,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Aug 1, 2020)

Sailor323 said:


> I would rack and then bottle about 2 weeks later.


that'll work just watch your head space, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Aug 1, 2020)

i have seen a member on here that's been on here years longer than me, that said they never worry about headspace, so ask 10 questions get 11 different answers, lol, it will get easier for you, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Aug 1, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> So do I bottle from here pulling the wine from the top of the carboy or do I have to rack again? And once I get close to the bottom IF I bottle from this stage do I just get as much as I can without sediment and throw the bottom sediment with an inch or two of wine above it away just to be safe?
> 
> sorry for so many questions, but I guess that’s what newbies do a lot lol.


no like KCCam said always rack to clean carboy
Dawg


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## Sailor323 (Aug 2, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> that'll work just watch your head space,
> Dawg


Yeah, I usually have to top up from a bottle of same variety wine


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## pete1325 (Aug 3, 2020)

Yep, Looks normal to me, from my experience with whites.


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## jinjo4444 (Aug 10, 2020)

Thanks so much for all your help!! It’s bottled now and I did a taste test and it actually seems really good! Nice and clear too.

so in the meantime I started a batch of pinot grigio on that just finished fermenting. Og was 1.084 and I’m down to 1.000 so I’m reading the instructions in this kit and I’m so confused AGAIN. For the transfer from the primary to the carboy it states that the transfer leaving sediment behind “will leave a space in the carboy. Do not top up the carboy at this time”.

it actually doesn’t say to top it up until the clearing stage. Can this be right? I thought leaving that much space in the carboy could ruin the wine because of oxygen?


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## winemaker81 (Aug 10, 2020)

Your bottles look really good! On appearance alone, you get 11 out of 10.

If you have active fermentation, the wine is emitting CO2, so you have a cushion protecting it from air. Once fermentation is done, top it up.

I usually press or rack at ~1.010, so I have active fermentation. I'll leave 6 to 12 inches of head space in the carboy. I learned a lesson years ago when I filled the carboys -- they overflowed, making a real mess and wasting wine. I was using double-bubbler airlocks, they got full of crud I could not get out, so I tossed 'em and went with 3 piece locks, which I can clean.

EDIT: fixed typos


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## BernardSmith (Aug 10, 2020)

My thinking is that the kit makers assume that their typical customer is likely to use water to top up the wine which will dilute flavor and ABV and acidity but given the expectation and "instructions" to bottle quickly oxidation is unlikely given the CO2 blanket . However, what you might consider is to think outside the box and rack the wine to a smaller carboy and add the excess to still smaller vessels or even 1500 ml or 750 ml bottles.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 10, 2020)

I agree with Bernard.

Many hardware kits include a 6 gallon carboy. For 6 US Gallon kits, that's a poor choice, as the final result is less than 6 gallons so there will be headspace, requiring topping.

My carboys are all 5 US gallon. I typically reconstitute kits to 5.5 to 5.75 gallons, and which fills the carboy with topup in smaller bottles. With volume loss due to sediment, I usually get 25 to 27 bottles.

I keep a collection of 4 liter, 1.5 liter, 750 ml, 375 ml, and other odd sizes in which I store topup. I used to have 2 and 3 liter jugs which I mistakenly recycled. All sizes come in handy at some point.

Another choice is to top up the carboy with a compatible wine, e.g., you're making unoaked chardonnay, use an unoaked commercial chardonnay that you like.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 10, 2020)

@jinjo4444, I forgot to say congratulations! You are now a fully fledged wine maker!

Now comes the truly hard part .... making that first batch of wine last more than a year!  

My recommendation to all beginners is to wait 3 months and open a bottle. Write down your impressions. Then open a bottle every 2 or 3 months, recording your impressions each time you taste. Do not look at your previous notes.

At the end of 1 year post-bottling, read through your notes, first to last. This will help you understand the aging process, and (hopefully) give you incentive to age future wines longer, as they improve with time. It will make sense when a more experienced wine maker recommends aging that wine a year before opening a bottle.


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## KCCam (Aug 10, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> transfer leaving sediment behind


I’m not sure if I’m right about this, but the first few kits I made I tried to take* no *sediment when transferring to secondary, leaving quite a large headspace. I now don’t worry so much. I rest the sediment tip gently on the bottom of the primary and as the level gets close to the tip, lift the far side a bit. This allows some of the finer lees into the secondary, but leaves all the really heavy gross less behind. I only lose about a litre that way. I’d be happy to hear from the experts if that’s frowned upon.


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## hounddawg (Aug 10, 2020)

there's a member on here i forget there handle, that says they go for long periods of time without headspace issues, i myself, have never made a kit nore any type of grape wine, as for myself , since i do bulk age everything, i filter at every racking, and at bottling time as well, i keep lots of jugs from pint to gallon all with 38-400 threads so they all use the same 6.5 bung, so i top off every rack with the same must/wine, as what i am making, and head space scares me, but that member i spoke of, well they have been doing wines for many, many years, not a clue if they do traditional wines, country wines or both, or if that even matters, just my 2 cents, IMHO,,,
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Aug 10, 2020)

KCCam said:


> This allows some of the finer lees into the secondary, but leaves all the really heavy gross less behind. I only lose about a litre that way.


That sounds about right. Sounds like you are as miserly as I am with my wine. 

The first racking, I expect to lose volume to sediment. As I've said in previous posts, I do not worry much about transferring some sediment. Nor do I worry at the second racking -- fermentation is complete, solids WILL drop.

After that?

When I racked a barrel in March, I poured the sludge into a 1.5 liter bottle, put it in the fridge for a week. The sediment compacted to about 2", so I recovered most of the 1.5 liters. I poured it off the sediment and kept it refrigerated until the barrel needed topping. Repeat that a few times and it adds up to significant loss in a small batch.

The techniques I was taught (many moons ago) were very wasteful of wine. I 'spose if you're making hundreds of gallons of wine, a few liters is trivial.

But I'm a VERY cheap SOB, so (to quote Queen) I want it all! I racked the barrel Saturday, putting 400 ml sludge into a bottle, which is in the fridge. The lees are compacted to 1/4", so I'll pour that off and will top the barrel in 3 weeks ........

Many moons ago a friend bulk aged his wines for 12 months, and racked them each and every month. He threw out the wine in the test jar (checked SG every time) because it was contaminated, and at bottling time he complained that he lost 25% of his initial volume.

<face palm>


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## KCCam (Aug 10, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I poured the sludge into a 1.5 liter bottle, put it in the fridge for a week.


The first time I tried that, I think I was comparing fining agents between 2 batches. I looked at the guck that looked like mud, and thought, "I wonder if you could get 10 or 20% back from that." It blew me away that it was more like 80 or 90%. 



winemaker81 said:


> But I'm a VERY cheap SOB,


I don't consider it being cheap. I consider it respectful. Billions of tiny little organisms gave their lives to turn grapes, berries, etc., into something much more interesting. Who am *I *to discard their hard work?!


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## winemaker81 (Aug 11, 2020)

@jinjo4444, we've strayed a bit from your original questions. I hope the extra chit chat is giving you ideas for handling your future wines.



KCCam said:


> I looked at the guck that looked like mud, and thought, "I wonder if you could get 10 or 20% back from that." It blew me away that it was more like 80 or 90%.


It's amazing what can be recovered.

I have a 3" wedge, a wooden desk nameplate from an old employer. When racking carboys, I put the wedge under one edge to tilt it. I start holding the racking tube high up in the wine, lowering it as I go. At the end I may manually tilt the carboy more, carefully lowering the capped end of the tube until I barely see sediment moving, then I stop. This eliminates a lot of waste, even without pouring the sludge off.

I've thought of building a special counter for carboys, where the counter is at a 20 or 25 degree angle. I'd screw a board on the edge so the carboys could not slide off, like this:




During fermentation and clearing, I'd give each carboy a sharp 1/4 turn each day to dislodge sediment clinging to the sides, AND to get the sediment to drop to the lowest point. My idea is that it would help even further with reducing waste and I wouldn't risk disturbing the sediment by tilting the carboy at racking time.

I'm also looking for tall, narrow 1.5 liter and 750 ml clear bottles to use for settling the sludge. Currently I'm using 1.5 liter clear Bordeaux style bottles, which work. Narrower means I have less surface are to deal with when pouring the wine off the sludge.


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## familynerone (Aug 11, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> Thanks so much for all your help!! It’s bottled now and I did a taste test and it actually seems really good! Nice and clear too.
> 
> so in the meantime I started a batch of pinot grigio on that just finished fermenting. Og was 1.084 and I’m down to 1.000 so I’m reading the instructions in this kit and I’m so confused AGAIN. For the transfer from the primary to the carboy it states that the transfer leaving sediment behind “will leave a space in the carboy. Do not top up the carboy at this time”.
> 
> ...



Hi there! I've been doing a lot of kits so I may be able to answer this. 
Simpler kits will have you transfer to the carboy after fermentation is complete. This is when you want to top up to eliminate too much head space in the carboy. This is also when they usually have you do the degassing (before topping up) and add clearing agents.
Other kits will have you transfer before fermentation is complete. I'm working on a cabernet right now that will have me transfer for "secondary" fermentation, where I will add oak, for example. (Keep in mind - that really doesn't mean a second fermentation, it is a second container but there is only one true fermentation going on). I will be using another primary fermenting vessel for this and not going directly into a glass carboy yet.
It sounds like your kit might be having you transfer to get the must off any sediment, but continuing fermentation. Does it state what S.G. you're shooting for before stabilizing/clearing? (I suppose it is possible that the intent is for the wine to be stabilized at that level (?) - I have heard that some sweeter wines do this, though most kits say to ferment to at or below 0.998).


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## familynerone (Aug 11, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> @jinjo4444, I forgot to say congratulations! You are now a fully fledged wine maker!
> 
> Now comes the truly hard part .... making that first batch of wine last more than a year!
> 
> ...



This is good advice, with the caveat that many kit wines have added instructions if you intend to age a year or more (the addition of extra potassium metabisulfite, for example). Also, fruit wine kits ("mist" or "cooler" style) are meant to be consumed fairly young and I would not keep those around more than a couple of years, based on the experiences other wine-makers in my family have had with these (though that never seems to be a problem as they generally don't last that long)!. Being fairly new to this in our own household we bought several dozen 375mL size bottles and are using those as our taste-tests for several varieties, as the suggestion above indicated. Wait several months then open one a month or one every few months, and jot down your tasting notes.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 11, 2020)

The "fun wine" kits, if made according to directions, have a short shelf life as the ABV is typically around 7%. When I make them, I chaptalize up to 10% to 11%, and had some last 7 years. That was when the last 2 bottles were consumed -- they tasted great at that point.

Using smaller bottles is a good idea.


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## jinjo4444 (Sep 22, 2020)

So I'm on my 3rd batch now and ran into something weird on this pinot grigio batch. I put the wine in the primary fermenter and starting SG was 1.086 .

I usually check it about 8 days in for gravity but I was so busy with work that I didn't check it until 12 days in. Here's what's weird. The SG was 0.992, which is way too low for 12 days in the primary, no? I removed the hydrometer several times and put it back in, spinning it each time so no bubbles, and it read the same every time.

I racked it into the carboy on Friday night and not one bubble has come out of it since. I'm so confused lol. Could it have fermented that much that fast? What the??


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## joeswine (Sep 22, 2020)

If your readings are correct then it's done, ambient temperature can also have a factor on fermentation.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 22, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> So I'm on my 3rd batch now and ran into something weird on this pinot grigio batch. I put the wine in the primary fermenter and starting SG was 1.086 .
> 
> I usually check it about 8 days in for gravity but I was so busy with work that I didn't check it until 12 days in. Here's what's weird. The SG was 0.992, which is way too low for 12 days in the primary, no? I removed the hydrometer several times and put it back in, spinning it each time so no bubbles, and it read the same every time.
> 
> I racked it into the carboy on Friday night and not one bubble has come out of it since. I'm so confused lol. Could it have fermented that much that fast? What the??



Fermenting to dry within 12 days is not AT ALL unexpected.


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## Sailor323 (Sep 23, 2020)

Not unusual.


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## Lukaswine (Sep 25, 2020)

KCCam said:


> Best is to rack to a clean carboy, leaving as much sediment as possible behind. Make sure you have the sediment tip on your racking cane. Slowly lower it as the carboy empties, so as not to disturb the sediment. With the amount you have shown you should be able to gently rest it on the bottom before the level drops that low. Watch for movement of the sediment towards the racking cane, and pull it up before any gets in there. Now you have a clear carboy you don't have to worry about jostling or bumping as you bottle. I would give it another couple of days in the clean carboy to make sure it is, in fact, finished dropping sediment. Personally, I dump the rest into a quart mason jar to settle out over the next week or two and get a couple glasses of clear wine as a reward.


Can you clear into the fermenting bucket then back into clean carboy then bottle? I don’t have an extras carboy .


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## Lukaswine (Sep 25, 2020)

Lukaswine said:


> Can you clear into the fermenting bucket then back into clean carboy then bottle? I don’t have an extras carboy .


I meant to say .. can you rack into the bucket then into a clean carboy


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## BernardSmith (Sep 25, 2020)

Absolutely, yes. You are simply using that bucket as a bottling bucket and as long as it is clean and sanitized it makes a perfectly good bottling bucket. The one thing that would /could make that bucket a tiny bit better would be if it had a spigot to which you could attach a hose and bottling wand. Then you would not need three hands to bottle. (some way to keep the bottle you are filling upright is another useful tool... I use a PVC pipe fitting that I have screwed to a small plank of wood. The wand cannot then tip over the bottle...


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## BernardSmith (Sep 25, 2020)

Lukaswine said:


> I meant to say .. can you rack into the bucket then into a clean carboy


But why rack twice in order to bottle. Rack from the carboy into the bucket leaving behind all the lees and enabling you to back sweeten (if you have previously stabilized and confirmed that the gravity is rock solid stable ) without any concern that you are disturbing the lees when stirring the sweetener so that it is fully dispersed in the wine you are about to bottle


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## winemaker81 (Sep 26, 2020)

I agree with @BernardSmith, there's no need to rack multiple times. By the time I'm ready to bottle, there is no lees in the carboy so I can bottle from the carboy without racking, although stirring in the final dose of K-meta is difficult.


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## Lukaswine (Sep 26, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> Absolutely, yes. You are simply using that bucket as a bottling bucket and as long as it is clean and sanitized it makes a perfectly good bottling bucket. The one thing that would /could make that bucket a tiny bit better would be if it had a spigot to which you could attach a hose and bottling wand. Then you would not need three hands to bottle. (some way to keep the bottle you are filling upright is another useful tool... I use a PVC pipe fitting that I have screwed to a small plank of wood. The wand cannot then tip over the bottle...





winemaker81 said:


> I agree with @BernardSmith, there's no need to rack multiple times. By the time I'm ready to bottle, there is no lees in the carboy so I can bottle from the carboy without racking, although stirring in the final dose of K-meta is difficult.


I have used two buckets in the past with spigots and both failed me the last time I made wine. They leaked! So, I bought something else I can’t recall from Label Peelers to fill bottles. I haven’t used it yet.
Do I put the K-meta into the carboy prior to racking or in the bucket prior to bottling.
I made kit wine before but after being on the forum I’ve become less confident !


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## heatherd (Sep 26, 2020)

jinjo4444 said:


> I’m 4 days in to the clearing stage but I’ve got SO much sediment on the bottom. It looks like a sandy beach down there. Is this normal?
> 
> View attachment 64230


Looks good actually, and that's normal.


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## Lukaswine (Sep 26, 2020)

Agreed.


jinjo4444 said:


> Thanks so much for all your help!! It’s bottled now and I did a taste test and it actually seems really good! Nice and clear too.
> 
> so in the meantime I started a batch of pinot grigio on that just finished fermenting. Og was 1.084 and I’m down to 1.000 so I’m reading the instructions in this kit and I’m so confused AGAIN. For the transfer from the primary to the carboy it states that the transfer leaving sediment behind “will leave a space in the carboy. Do not top up the carboy at this time”.
> 
> ...


 I like the label. Did you design it?


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## Lukaswine (Sep 26, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> Welcome to WMT.
> 
> You will find that it makes your life A LOT easier if you have a siphon. Most of us use an "autosiphon" like the one pictured below. If you cannot get that in time, you could get away with a simple piece of vinyl tubing if you are careful.
> 
> In a kit, the main reason to have the initial specific gravity is to get the ABV, as you say. Just make sure you have one when you are trying to judge completion.


I have not used this siphon yet, but I have it for my next batch in a few weeks.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 26, 2020)

Lukaswine said:


> Do I put the K-meta into the carboy prior to racking or in the bucket prior to bottling.


I usually start the siphon, then add the K-meta to the destination container as I've had it clump when I put K-meta in the container first. It doesn't matter which container you put the K-meta in as long as it is distributed in the wine.



Lukaswine said:


> I made kit wine before but after being on the forum I’ve become less confident !


Ahhh! The confidence of ignorance! 

Your world has expanded. But don't worry too much ... things will make sense with time and practice.


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## mikewatkins727 (Sep 27, 2020)

Lukaswine said:


> I have used two buckets in the past with spigots and both failed me the last time I made wine. They leaked! So, I bought something else I can’t recall from Label Peelers to fill bottles. I haven’t used it yet.
> Do I put the K-meta into the carboy prior to racking or in the bucket prior to bottling.
> I made kit wine before but after being on the forum I’ve become less confident !


Since you want the K-meta to mix, I suggest you put it into the bucket for bottling. I make a solution of ¼ tsp of K-meta to six ounces and store it in a plastic medicine bottle like the ones a pharmacy uses for cough syrup. Then for each gallon of wine you need one ounce. Since it is pres-dissolved, that aids in mixing.


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## Lukaswine (Sep 27, 2020)

mikewatkins727 said:


> Since you want the K-meta to mix, I suggest you put it into the bucket for bottling. I make a solution of ¼ tsp of K-meta to six ounces and store it in a plastic medicine bottle like the ones a pharmacy uses for cough syrup. Then for each gallon of wine you need one ounce. Since it is pres-dissolved, that aids in mixing.


I am assuming you are mixing with water. Thank you so much.


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## mikewatkins727 (Sep 27, 2020)

Lukaswine said:


> I am assuming you are mixing with water. Thank you so much.


Your assumption is correct.


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## joeswine (Sep 29, 2020)

Try this trick before you put the game at in get it mix it with a half a cup of warm water so it dissolves the k met and any other chemical that you're going to put into it now you're putting in it into it in direct solution.


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## Lukaswine (Sep 29, 2020)

Ok thanks


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## joeswine (Sep 29, 2020)

Usually I'll use a little of the base wine then dump it in, quick easy and direct.


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