# Cab Sav and Merlot blend



## geek (May 7, 2014)

As I had mentioned in another thread, my chilean Fresco juice buckets arrived.
I ordered 1 bucket of Cab Sav and 1 bucket of Merlot.
I also ordered 2 18lbs lugs of Merlot and 1 lug of Cab Sav.

My plan was to mix it all up during fermentation.

The juice buckets are pre-inoculated and pre-balanced by Mosti Mondiali and they emailed me saying the Ph is 3.2~3.5 and TA 4~4.8

I have not picked up my order because that 1 lug of Cab Sav grapes will not come in until early next week....

Then I am thinking to forget about that lug and just use the 2 lugs of Merlot.

What do you guys think?

Also, I may be planing to put everything together in a container to ferment, I hope I can get a 20gal brute at Home Depot. The 30gal is too big. Any suggestions for this let me know....

.


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## dangerdave (May 7, 2014)

Hey, Varis! How's it going?

Well, I did some reading on blending because I did the same thing you're doing. Myself, I got five different Chilean reds meant for blending. From my research, it seem that if you want a blend that tastes like a mix of merlot and cab sav, you need to first make a merlot and cab sav seperately. If you mix them before fermentation, you will not have the charateristics inherant to each varietal for blending. It may very well be something totally different. I started my five reds at the beginning of April. After secondary fermentation was complete, I ended up with five, five gallon carboys, each holding one of the varietals, with 6.5 gallons of the five evenly blended. They all taste wondeful already!

Some people would tell you how much of each wine to blend (%) before hand, but from my reading, it needs to be done to taste, as wine growing conditions can differ (along with the resulting juices) from year to year in different regions. I am excited about the potential combinations. In about three months, I will begin to taste and mix. I've also got some selections of dried fruits (blueberries, currants, cranberries, and cherries) on hand. I'll tap off and gallon here and there to enhance with the fruit. Maybe a blueberry zinfandel, a currant cab sav, or a cranberry merlot. How about a cherry malbec?! I'm also planning a carmenere/malbec, a cab/merlot (like yours), and will bottle the leftovers as straight varietals. By Christmas, I should have a slew of reds to choose from.

I also got some lugs of grapes. Like you, both merlot and cab sav. I used them as skin packs for my reds. The cab sav, carmenere, and malbec got cab sav skins, while the merlot and zin got the merlot skins. The increase in flavor and body was well worth the extra effort.

Whatever you do, I hope yours come out great! Maybe we can exchange a few bottles this Fall!


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## ibglowin (May 7, 2014)

Just go with the lugs of Merlot. You won't be able to tell the difference with that few grapes.


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## Runningwolf (May 7, 2014)

I agree with Mike. Get those grapes now and get your fermentation going. Grapes should be pressed asap after being picked.


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## JohnT (May 8, 2014)

I agree too. Wait until the fresh grapes come in.


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## geek (May 8, 2014)

Thanks guys, I am picking my chilean juice/grapes today and forget about that extra lug of Cab Sav.
I have 2 final questions.

1.how about getting a Syrah lug, so 2 lugs of Merlot and 1 Syrah?

2.the fresh grapes will be crushed by my supplier using their machines, should I add any kmeta to the crush *at all* to kill any wild bacteria? Remember that the juice buckets are pre-inoculated using D21 yeast (according to MM they use Lalvin D21 on reds).

I am calling my supplier to get the juice buckets outside so they get warmer by the time I do the pickup later today and add the grapes tonight.


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## geek (May 8, 2014)

dangerdave said:


> Hey, Varis! How's it going?
> 
> Well, I did some reading on blending because I did the same thing you're doing. Myself, I got five different Chilean reds meant for blending. From my research, it seem that if you want a blend that tastes like a mix of merlot and cab sav, you need to first make a merlot and cab sav seperately. If you mix them before fermentation, you will not have the charateristics inherant to each varietal for blending. It may very well be something totally different. I started my five reds at the beginning of April. After secondary fermentation was complete, I ended up with five, five gallon carboys, each holding one of the varietals, with 6.5 gallons of the five evenly blended. They all taste wondeful already!
> 
> ...



Interesting, thanks Dave.

I will do MLF on this and wonder if blending after primary alcoholic fermentation would matter in that case as I was planing to blend it all for MLF using VP41.


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## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2014)

I agree with Mike and Dan. Forget the Cab, and go with the Merlot. In my opinion, the addition of grapes here is for body/tannin/mouthfeel. The finished wine won't miss that tiny bit of Cab grapes. 

For what it's worth, I bottled my 2013 Carmenere last night. It was a bucket, with 18lbs of grapes added and I blended in a little Malbec during the process, due to container constraints. So there is probably 10-12% Malbec in there. Between adding the grapes, and giving it 5 months in a barrel, the body is excellent. I think you'll be pleased with this process.


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## geek (May 8, 2014)

Jim, so you did ferment separate and then did the blending long after? 

I can probably do what Dave mentioned and ferment the 2 buckets separate but then I am wondering about MLF as I was planing to blend altogether for it in a demi john using a VP41 from M&M. Unfortunately they do not have a smaller batch of good MLB (Bacchus for example) so I was planing MLF as a whole even if the VP41 is good for a more larger batch.

.


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## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2014)

geek said:


> Jim, so you did ferment separate and then did the blending long after?
> 
> I can probably do what Dave mentioned and ferment the 2 buckets separate but then I am wondering about MLF as I was planing to blend altogether for it in a demi john using a VP41 from M&M. Unfortunately they do not have a smaller batch of good MLB (Bacchus for example) so I was planing MLF as a whole even if the VP41 is good for a more larger batch.
> 
> .



I fermented separately, and blended later. The only reason I blended was because I was constrained by available carboys/sizes. Otherwise, I'd have kept the batches separate. With the added grapes, I ended up with a little more than 7.5 gallons of Malbec and a little more than 7 gallons of Carmenere. I moved these to a 5 gallon carboy of Carm, a 6 gallon carboy of Malbec, and a 3 gallon of blended wine. This blend was ultimately added back to the Carm to get it back to 6 gallons for barrel time, and was also used for topping up both batches during racking and barrel storage. 

You can hydrate your VP41, then add roughly half to each batch if you keep them separate.


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## geek (May 8, 2014)

geez....these Fresco juice buckets are really more than 6 gallons so I think I don't have any other option but to blend now and put everything into a 20gal brute.
I don't have a 7.5gal fermenter and even if I did I think it would overflow since I am adding an 18lb lug to each bucket.

Picture of the bucket being uploaded soon....


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## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2014)

Blend away!


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## geek (May 8, 2014)

Blended the 2 buckets and created 3 grape packs plus added white and dark chips that came with the buckets.....all now in a 20gal brute.
No signs of fermentation yet, the must temp seems to be a bit cold still. Just turned on pellet stove in the basement to bring temp up a bit.

I wonder if there's an easy way to warm the must in such a big container....






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## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2014)

Oak in the bags! Oak in the bags!!!!!! 

Looks good. Just keep an eye on that cap. Don't need any overflows. Regarding warmth: do you have an old heating pad you could put under the Brute?


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## geek (May 9, 2014)

I will check with wife for a heating pad. This morning I squeezed the 3 bags and the must is still very cold, no signs of fermentation yet...... :-(


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## skipdonohue (May 9, 2014)

geek said:


> I will check with wife for a heating pad. This morning I squeezed the 3 bags and the must is still very cold, no signs of fermentation yet...... :-(




I use these all the time and they work like a charm, it heats your must up in a couple hours…

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YADYXG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## joeswine (May 9, 2014)

*Geek*

Are the food grade fermentation buckets???


NICE PICS BY THE WAY


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## geek (May 9, 2014)

yes Joe, those brutes are food grade.


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## Runningwolf (May 9, 2014)

I like the idea of the aquarium heater if you feel you need more heat. I am not comfortable setting all that weight on a heating pad. Maybe the safest solution would be attaching the heating pad to the side of the brute with bungie cords.


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## geek (May 9, 2014)

As of right now I put the brute in front of the pellet stove. Checked few mins ago and saw some fermentation activity, minor though....


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## geek (May 10, 2014)

Checked this morning and fermentation is more active now; squeezed the 3 "home-made" grape packs and SG was around 1.084 from initial ~1.094 (before grape packs....didn't measure after adding grape packs).

Looking very good so far....


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## geek (May 15, 2014)

Fermentation has continued strong, today SG was 1.006~1.008 but still active fermentation, I think tonight will do a final squeeze of the 3 grape bags and then transfer from that 20gal plastic brute to secondary, I'm thinking a demi john depending on final volume.
I will let it finish fermentation and go below 1.000 and then pitch 1/4 of the VP41 packet (previously rehydrated with Acti-ML).

What do you guys think, also thought of adding a couple TSP of regular wine tannin (from LD Carlson).


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## ibglowin (May 15, 2014)

Absolutely. Not enough tannin by any means in juice buckets (or kits) IMHO.


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## geek (May 15, 2014)

How about waiting for the wine to be *all the way dry* before pitching MLB?
I will check the readme but think they mention to wait for all alcoholic fermentation to finish.


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## ibglowin (May 15, 2014)

You have less problems getting MLB to finish if you inoculate a day or two before pressing etc.


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## geek (May 15, 2014)

ok, found the doc from Morewine, here's a quote:

• *Wait until the must has reached 0º Brix before inoculating with the ML bacteria. ML bacteria, in the presence of residual sugars will also use this as a food source and one of the by-products of this pathway is VA. Ironically, high levels of VA in a must or wine can actually interfere with the bacteria’s ability to complete a Malolactic fermentation; regardless if they are the one’s who made it in the first place! And, of course, VA in detectible levels is considered a serious wine flaw. This possibility can therefore be greatly reduced by eliminating most of the sugars in the environment before they gain access to it.

• Rack-off of the “gross” lees 24 hours post-press before inoculating the wine with the ML culture (As mentioned earlier, there is nothing helpful in the “gross” lees. Remove them and remove potential problems, as well. there will be enough “light” lees remaining to feed the ML bacteria and you will keep the “being buried alive in the lees” factor to a minimum for the bacteria).*


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## geek (May 16, 2014)

Racked last night and SG around 1.004
Filled Demi John and rest did not fill a 1gal jug, see pic.

Wine in Demi John really active this morning, lots of bubbles and I assume it is more gas than anything else, no mlb added yet.

Do you guys degas before pitching mlb or it does not matter anyways??
Lastly, lots of sediment already, should I rack once again before pitching mlb??





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## sdelli (May 17, 2014)

geek said:


> Racked last night and SG around 1.004
> Filled Demi John and rest did not fill a 1gal jug, see pic.
> 
> Wine in Demi John really active this morning, lots of bubbles and I assume it is more gas than anything else, no mlb added yet.
> ...




I press and rack.... Then wait 48 hours.... Rack again... Then pitch mlb. Helps get rid of most of the gross lees.


Sam


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