# Frozon Must 2500 lbs



## NCWC (Apr 16, 2016)

I belong to a wine club of about 100 members. This is the 4th batch and 2nd this year of Frozen Must (FM) we have made. Last year we made 2 - 60 gallon 
batches 1 Pinot Noir 1 Sangeovese. They came out great This year we already did a 2634 lbs FM Must of Sang and after pressing its 211 gallon that we will do a 1st racking on 04-23-16 the PH 3.6 brix 25

1 week ago we received 2510 lbs of Zinfandel. We are looking at pitching the yeast tomorrow it was almost thawed out yesterday.

The PH is 3.8 the Brix right about 25
I can't say these number for sure until the whole tote is thawed 
if the PH is 3.8 I feel we should get it to 3.4 range for fermenting


Has anyone out there made this much from frozen must ?


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## bkisel (Apr 16, 2016)

Welcome to the forum!

Wow! That is impressive even for a club of 100 members.


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## NCWC (Apr 16, 2016)

I'ts less than a case each. We made over 800 gallons 2 years ago
Pino, Sang, Zin, Cab, Monti,Merlot, Chardonnay,Gerwurts, Riesling


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## NCWC (Apr 18, 2016)

Pitched the yeast 
320 grams BM45 with 400 grams Go-ferm
the brix were 28 had to add 18 gallons, yes gallons of water
got it down to 26 brix, PH 3.57 TA 6.5 Temp 52 degree


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## chitownwine (Apr 18, 2016)

Wow that's a lot of frozen must, where did you get the quantity from brehms? I know they sell the drums but did you do multiple drums?


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## NCWC (Apr 18, 2016)

It is from a local guy here in Cleveland. He brings in fresh grapes in the Fall. The ones he doesn't move he de-stems and freezes
We are trying to get him to make a smaller batchs but that's ok we have 3 - 800 liter 2 - 500 liter and 2 - 200 liter stainless steel tanks to ferment and age and rack before putting in barrels.


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## JohnT (Apr 19, 2016)

Really cool. I am not surprised that it took over a week to thaw out.

Got any pictures??


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## sdelli (Apr 19, 2016)

Where in Cleveland are you located? That is where I am from originally....


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## chitownwine (Apr 19, 2016)

He should start his own brehms in the midwest. He must be renting commercial freezer for that quantity or have a lot of chest freezers.


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## NCWC (Apr 20, 2016)

We are in Solon Oh. They guy has a commercial freezer big as a semi trailer
Go here and you can see it all
https://www.facebook.com/northcoastwineclub/


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## sdelli (Apr 20, 2016)

How crazy! I moved 7 years ago to Mi... Came from Solon!


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## sdelli (Apr 20, 2016)

But back to your thread.... I made Zin during fall of 2014 from fresh grapes. We get ours trucked in from California on pallets. I do not have my notes with me but do remember I also had to get the brix down some on it as well. I used BM4X4 which is real close to what you are using. Out of the 4 different grapes in ferment this one was the most aggressive! Keep the temp as close to 80 degrees you can to get good color out of them... Mine turned out spectacular! I did a small blend of about 5% Cab and 5% Merlot. Just bottled a few weeks ago.... Great tasting wine!!


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## NCWC (Apr 23, 2016)

SG 1.085 71 degree PH 3.53 TA 6.5 Looking good
Sorry for the sideways pics this is how it looked frozen
last pic pitching the yeast


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## NCWC (Apr 24, 2016)

Fermentation question
As of yesterday the SG of the ZIn was 1.085. WE want to get to the 0.996 range.
We also want to press on Sat April 30. If we are not at 0.996 will it be ok to continue fermentation in the stainless steel vat?(800 /l) WE may also start MLF then too! I would leave a few inch head space with a bubblier. I feel it will be ok to finish fermentation in the tank
any Thoughts?


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## NCWC (Apr 24, 2016)

sdelli said:


> How crazy! I moved 7 years ago to Mi... Came from Solon!



I lived on Branard and am a '75 Grad from Solon


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 24, 2016)

NCWC said:


> Fermentation question
> As of yesterday the SG of the ZIn was 1.085. WE want to get to the 0.996 range.
> We also want to press on Sat April 30. If we are not at 0.996 will it be ok to continue fermentation in the stainless steel vat?(800 /l) WE may also start MLF then too! I would leave a few inch head space with a bubblier. I feel it will be ok to finish fermentation in the tank
> any Thoughts?



I usually press around 1.000. Let it sit 24-48 hours, then rack and pitch MLB, letting alcoholic and malolactic fermentation finish out together.


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## sdelli (Apr 24, 2016)

NCWC said:


> Fermentation question
> 
> As of yesterday the SG of the ZIn was 1.085. WE want to get to the 0.996 range.
> 
> ...




If you can get the temp up around 80 I see no problem this not being done in a week. Mine rarely takes a week to finish with proper temp and nutrients. But if worse happens... Ya, just finish in the vats but keep warm.


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## onlyreds (Apr 25, 2016)

Hey Chi town. I'm in the NW burbs looking to sync up on must and fruit purchases. Drop me a note.


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## NCWC (Apr 25, 2016)

We decided to pull about 15 gallons at 1.03 and make a port
we wont be able to fit it all in a 800 liter vat anyway
Fermaid K tomorrow SG 1/2 way by tomorrow


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## NCWC (Apr 30, 2016)

Pressed the Zin (Zinfandel) and Racked the Sang (Sangiovese)
https://www.facebook.com/northcoastwineclub/?ref=bookmarks

Ended up with 190 gallon of zin plus we pulled 20 gallons (SG 1.035) Thur to make port
so total 210 gallons from the frozen must of 2510 lbs


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## 4score (May 4, 2016)

Looks like fun. Using brandy for the port?


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## NCWC (May 5, 2016)

No we use Everclear


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## Runningwolf (May 5, 2016)

Very nice, too bad you had to destroy that $300 tote by cutting the top off of it, but at least you have a new fermenter for in the future.


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## NCWC (May 11, 2016)

Our Zin has stuck fermentation at 1.018. Saturday we put in yeast husks. Then Sun we pitched fermin-K and BM45 the yeast. Yesterday still stuck. But it has been bubbling temp is 80-82. So I drew off 1 gallon added more Fermen-K left the lid of the gallon jug off and will see if it moves.


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## onlyreds (May 11, 2016)

O2 + YAN. The temperature is high. Get it below 80. Get an O2 line to a fish tank aerator stone going and stop pitching fermaid. Add some YAN and then don't mess with it till a wiff knocks you back. Then wait another 12 hours before you resume pump over or punch down. Less is best and patience is a winemaker's greatest virtue. You've missed the mark on both.


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## NCWC (May 12, 2016)

Used Go Ferm not Fermin K my mistake tempt down to under 80 now will try bubbler


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## JohnT (May 13, 2016)

onlyreds said:


> O2 + YAN. The temperature is high. Get it below 80. Get an O2 line to a fish tank aerator stone going and stop pitching fermaid. Add some YAN and then don't mess with it till a wiff knocks you back. Then wait another 12 hours before you resume pump over or punch down. Less is best and patience is a winemaker's greatest virtue. You've missed the mark on both.


 
Agree with the YAN, but why do you advise to add O2 at this stage? Unless I am wrong, O2 is usually added at the beginning of fermentation during lag phase and aids in yeast reproduction. Assuming that he already has a large population of yeast, what does the O2 do to "unstick" the fermentation?

Another question is why lower the temp? If he has a stuck fermentation, would maintaining a high temp be the course of action to reinvigorate yeast? wouldn't lowering the temp also lower the yeast's metabolism? I see that the optimum temp for the yeast he is using is between 64 and 82 degrees. Wouldn't his temp be fine right where it is?

Note: I hope I do not come across as overly critical of your advice. I very well could be wrong on my understanding. I just figured that I would ask you to expand a little.. Thanks.


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## NCWC (May 14, 2016)

We took off the top and put a bubbler in Thur afternoon. Late yesterday the SG dropped to 1.017 so it moved. I talked to the place we get our yeast and they said to try this too.
Stiring the lees also.


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## onlyreds (May 14, 2016)

The fermentation is still in primary so Os are recommended +YAN. High temp will aid extraction but can also result in a premature cessation of fermentation and residual sugar. A lower temp and extended fermentation will yield a less astringent wine. A cold soak is the preferred approach as a method of extraction. 
A high temperature fermentation is a paradox. Better extraction at the risk of premature cessation of fermentation. A common practice of Finger Lakes vintners is to primary outdoors to allow cool Fall ambient temperatures to prevent a "runaway" fermentation. The SG on this one was likely too high at the start. Amelioration should have been done but that's back seat coaching. At this point the best approach is to feed the yeast with YAN and O2, exercise restraint and patience and consider MLF if the malic acid levels persist. 
Post secondary fermentation is going to be a risk so stabilization will be critical after aging. Barellmill spirals in Flextank vats would be my recommendation with a min 8 months at normal cellar temp.


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## NCWC (May 19, 2016)

SG down to 1.015


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## sdelli (May 20, 2016)

NCWC said:


> We took off the top and put a bubbler in Thur afternoon. Late yesterday the SG dropped to 1.017 so it moved. I talked to the place we get our yeast and they said to try this too.
> 
> Stiring the lees also.




At the WineMakers Conference and during a yeast presentation from White Labs They covered stuck fermentation.... They did not recommend oxygen at this stage.... Too high of a risk oxidation....


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## NCWC (May 21, 2016)

SO what did they recommend?


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## sdelli (May 21, 2016)

Regydrate a new batch of yeast with full introduction to must and re pitch. Make sure must temp is in range.


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## NCWC (May 22, 2016)

we did that 10 days ago it might be at 1.013 now
it taste great nice tannin almost there just a little sweet


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## NCWC (Jun 5, 2016)

Busy day at the wine club. We Racked 189 gallon Sangiovese to barrels. The Zin finally made it to .992 we racked it, and we pressed 101 gallon of Petite Syrah.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 5, 2016)

I like that agenda. What time on the 17th should we be there?


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## NCWC (Jun 6, 2016)

http://www.northcoastwineclub.net/party.html


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## JohnT (Jun 8, 2016)

Wow.. Looks like it will be a great time. Even have live music!

Wish you were closer!


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## kevinlfifer (Jun 8, 2016)

I must be a hog. I'm doing 2 - 60 gal drums per year with SP , some fruit wines and a kit here or there.


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## NCWC (Jun 10, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Wow.. Looks like it will be a great time. Even have live music!
> 
> Wish you were closer!



It's only about 9 hours come'on


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## NCWC (Jun 10, 2016)

kevinlfifer said:


> I must be a hog. I'm doing 2 - 60 gal drums per year with SP , some fruit wines and a kit here or there.



Be a pig, hogs get slaughtered


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## NCWC (Jun 22, 2016)

Tasted the Petite Syrah and the Zin. Both taste Great especially the Petite Syrah. Did ML about a week ago


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