# Filter Plus Pump - I Read and I Know Just Don't Get It all



## pioneergirl (Apr 28, 2012)

Was told today that I would be receiving a filter for Mother's Day (to add to collection - likely to filter both beer and wine). Done some quick research on this forum and see the subject of Filter AND Pump tied to together and I just can't seem to wrap my head around the filter portion.

From what I see, a vaccuum pump would be a great addition to my winemaking. Could also be used for racking beer too. I even saw some photos and I just don't get the filter integration part of it. I can't even put my lack of understanding into words. The "whole house filter". What exactly is this and what makes up this component? How do you integrate this into the vaccuum pump to begin with? And is is "portable" enough? How big is this filter set up? I don't want him to spend money on some random filter when this type of set up would be a better long term investment for both our beer and wine use.

Sorry, I need this explained to me like I am a third grader - the filter housing and attaching part anyway. Let's assume I would purchase the all in one vaccuum pump that says it can be used to filter too.


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 28, 2012)

I am emailing you a pdf that has all the links on it to buy a complete filter set-up

I was able to send it as a jpeg - this is mainly the complete setup and price as well
I would like to thank Wade for getting all these great links on this filter system !


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## Wade E (Apr 28, 2012)

With a filter set up like this (Whole house) you need a pump (preferably vacuum) as gravity wont get your wine or beer through it and to your carboy. I say preferably as you could push wine throw the pump but that usually requires your wine being in contact with an impeller or pushing your wine with air. While the impeller isnt as bad as 02 as that could oxidize your wine or beer the impeller kind of beats up beverage. The gravity filter works but takes a long time and the pads dont seem to sit right for some people and also sometimes leaves fibers in the wine.


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## Deezil (Apr 28, 2012)

Vacuumpumpman has the right filter there, and basically it goes in-line. 

So theres a hose attached to a racking cane in carboy full of wine-to-be-filtered - this hose is connected to the filter & the other end connects to a hose that runs to a racking cane in the receiving carboy.. A hose from the top of the receiving carboy runs to your vacuum pump overfill container, and that is connected to your vacuum pump itself.

Unfiltered Carboy - Filter - Filtered Carboy - Overfill - Vacuum Pump


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks Deezil ; 
I did PM her almost the same exact thing that you just mentioned. I hope to have a picture of that setup soon.


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## pioneergirl (Apr 29, 2012)

Okay, I forwarded all this info on to my husband to take in. He gets it. I get it now too! Thanks!!!!!


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## Chiumanfu (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm in the process of writing a "How-to" for the whole house wine filter setup.

I've tested this a few times with water and it seems to do fine with just gravity. When I tried with the vacuum pump, it created a lot of cavitation and seemed too harsh as it was sucking the wine through the filter housing. Gravity feed is a more relaxed and enjoyable experience for me.

I used a racking cane in the carboy and a bottle filling wand in the bottle. I do use the vacuum pump to charge the system and get the wine flowing but after that, it's just the valve in the bottle filling wand to start and stop the flow.

As soon as I have a batch ready for bottling, I will take the videos and finish the tutorial.


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## UBB (Apr 29, 2012)

So, will this set up work with my allinone pump or not? I'm a bit confused.


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## pioneergirl (Apr 29, 2012)

ChiuManFu, Love the picture. I needed to see a visual! I don't have anything that is ready to bottle (maybe at end of May into June). I am not in a rush (I suspect my husband is more in a rush to filter/bottle his beer and is using the nearest "hallmark holiday" as a cover for the purchase).


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## Deezil (Apr 29, 2012)

Been looking for this picture for a while now. It's a pic of Wade's; just insert the filter set up pictured above between the two carboys.


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 29, 2012)

Deezil you beat me to it, but since I took pictures I am going to post it as well. For those who have probles pulling excessice co2 while filtering can add this plastic pipe in the middle of the filter housing (instead of turning it upside down ) These filter and housings are made to be used with any vacuum pumps or pressure pumps as well , but you should read the article that wade mentions about the pressure pump,beating up the wine . I believe that if I had to gravity feed the filter process it would take a long time (depending on the micron being used - typically 1 micron ) and the extended contact time with the air as well.


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## Wade E (Apr 29, 2012)

I dont ever have that problem of all the air like some of you state, are you soaking the filter? You really need to IMO. Its like when you use one of these set ups in your house water system, you basically will have to bleed the system or run thye water for a minute to get the air out. By soaking them first it eliminates 90% of that.


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## Chiumanfu (Apr 29, 2012)

It takes about 15 seconds to fill a bottle with my gravity setup. This is with water so I'm not yet sure if there will be differences with wine. It's slow compared to the vacuum trials I did, but I find it is much more controlled and gentler on the wine.

I don't have a tap and die set so I can't add the pipe as vacuumpumpman suggest. I just turn the filter upside down which works just as well when all the air is properly bled out of the housing.

When I have a batch ready to bottle, I will take videos of both methods and show you what I'm talking about.

Parts---
Pentek 158326 - filter housing
Pentek PD-5-934 - 5 micron filter
Pentek PD-1-934 - 1 micron filter
1/4" NPT to Hose Barb x 2 - Thanks Wade!!!
Racking Tube
Bottle Filling Wand
Tubing


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 30, 2012)

I know that the Viscosity is different between wine and water and also how much sugar is in the wine as well. I personally dont think that you would get far before the filter decided to stop flowing, without an additional aid . But I would like to see the outcome of your study. 
Make sure you you note alachol % and residual sugar and how old the wine is and of course the micron size filter you are testing as well


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## UBB (May 7, 2012)

How much tubing is needed in addition to what already came with the ALLINONE?


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## Chiumanfu (May 7, 2012)

You would probably only need an extra 3 foot chunk of tubing to insert the filter between the racking canes.

On a side note. I've done some more testing and the 1 micron filter flows way too slow for a pure gravity feed. I've decided on a standard practice of filtering during a vacuum racking as shown by Steve and then bottling. I still prefer to bottle with an autosiphon and bottling wand.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 7, 2012)

For now, I'm with you on the bottling. I'm going to stick with the syphon and bottling wand. Seems to keep the mess at a minimum. And it gives me a little time to sip some of the new brew while I'm bottling. ;-)


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## vacuumpumpman (May 7, 2012)

SpoiledRotten said:


> For now, I'm with you on the bottling. I'm going to stick with the syphon and bottling wand. Seems to keep the mess at a minimum. And it gives me a little time to sip some of the new brew while I'm bottling. ;-)


 
I realized you both agreed on using the bottling wand vs the vacuum bottling attachement , can I as why ? have you tried it yet ?

These are my postives on *Vacuum Wine bottling set-up* 
* no lifting carboy on table - it stays on the floor
* you bottle while standing - no bending over - hurting your back
* less oxygen contact
* all your bottles are at a consistent height.
* no spillage -at all - especially between bottles
* no wiping down bottles prior to labeling
* takes approx 15 seconds per bottle to fill
* fills any size bottle
* adjustable fill height
* no moving parts - long life
* easy clean-up
* it only 42 dollars which includes shipping
http://allinonewinepump.com/accessories.html

Just curious if you already have a vacuum pump - why not ?


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## Famineguy (May 7, 2012)

Wade E said:


> With a filter set up like this (Whole house) you need a pump (preferably vacuum) as gravity wont get your wine or beer through it and to your carboy. I say preferably as you could push wine throw the pump but that usually requires your wine being in contact with an impeller or pushing your wine with air. While the impeller isnt as bad as 02 as that could oxidize your wine or beer the impeller kind of beats up beverage. The gravity filter works but takes a long time and the pads dont seem to sit right for some people and also sometimes leaves fibers in the wine.



Ok. I have an Allinone vacuum pump on order (probably arriving tomorrow). I have an older power filter (Buon Vino Mini jet) that I have had for about 15 years ( i haven't used it in the last 12 years). This pumps the wine through an impeller (I think). Would I be better off adding the whole house filter setup to my Allinone and getting rid of the power filter?


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## vacuumpumpman (May 7, 2012)

Famineguy ; I would recommend the whole house filtration system as it does not leak like the Buon Vino Mini jet and you can do alot more gallons throuh it as well. It is also alot faster as well. 
I personally own the Buon Vino Mini jet and the super jet as well - and I still will go back and use the whole house filtration system

Considering you have not used it in 12 years - there is a good chance that the motor could be locked up on it as well.


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## Famineguy (May 8, 2012)

Thanks Steve. That is what I was thinking from what I have read on this topic and some of the threads here. I saw one in Home Depot yesterday. Up until then, I also didn't know what a "whole house filter" was.


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## SpoiledRotten (May 8, 2012)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I realized you both agreed on using the bottling wand vs the vacuum bottling attachement , can I as why ? have you tried it yet ?


 
Steve,
If I bought everything "just to try it out", I'd have a house full of junk and an empty bank account. I've gotten to the point in life that I don't buy everything I see any more. This more practical practice has gotten my house, student loans, and all vehicles paid off with us being debt free within 10 years. And we started our marriage with a lot of debt! I'm more of the "learn from the mistakes of others since life's too short to make them all yourself". 

But to answer your question, it's mainly due to the fact that I haven't gotten a good understanding of that part of the bottling with a VP. I haven't seen a clear picture of it and haven't pulled up a good video of it being used. I've seen a couple of foggy vids on YouTube. The price seems fair but for now, I make enough of a mess if I don't catch the wine shooting up the neck of the bottle. I don't know what would happen with any more pressure added beyond gravity. I can sit on my stool, sipping samples of what I'm bottling, wondering if I have a chance to take one more sip before I have to yank the wand upward to stop the flow. I'm also still setting up my pump system. I still have to add the suction canister to it and I have to watch that closely as well to make sure I don't get moisture past the last vessel. I'm getting the canister on Friday.


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## FTC Wines (May 8, 2012)

Randy, The All In One bottling attachment works great, with no mess, & it's so easy to clean after use. Fast, simple, easy & NO mess, how can you beat that. Roy Sorry, don't do pic's or video


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## Chiumanfu (May 8, 2012)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I realized you both agreed on using the bottling wand vs the vacuum bottling attachement , can I as why ? have you tried it yet ?



It's really just personal preference. I have bottled one batch with my vacuum pump and found it quite messy and less control.

The main reason is that my vacuum pump setup is quite a bit less polished than yours. I only have an on/off pressure control and I don't like using the overflow due to the brass components (I have a proper overflow in the works). When vacuum bottling, you are depending entirely on the overflow to control the top-up level.

I also found that there is quite a bit more bubbling and frothing while bottling due to the fact that the fill tube can not be very long or you will not be able to fill the bottle to the top. The wine is sprayed into the bottle and that creates a lot of bubbles even with a properly degassed wine. With the bottling wand, there is zero frothing.

Last but not least, I always found that a little wine would siphon out of the inlet tube or the overflow tube when moving the filler bung to the next bottle. My work area ended up being quite messy. Moving the carboy and pump to the ground and keeping the bottles on the table helped but didn't solve the issue. I could probably fine tune my system to fix this, such as using 90 degree fittings at the inlet/overflow tube and better orientation of the tubing.

In my opinion, using the bottling wand and autosiphon is just a simpler, more relaxed and cleaner option. That opinion might be totally different if I was using the allinone instead of my DIY.


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## dangerdave (May 8, 2012)

All I can convey is my own experience with both methods of bottling---via gravity with the bottling wand and with the allinonewinepump. From my experience, there is absolutely no comparison. The vaccum pump is faster, cleaner, and much less labor intentive. Steve's setup is perfect for avoiding messes and topping each bottle at the exact level I choose. I place the bung adapter---with the vacuum tube and the wine supply attached---into the bottle top and let it fill. This takes about 10-12 seconds with a 750ml bottle, and gives me just enough time to cork and wipe down the previous bottle, then shove another cork in my corker. When the bottle is filled, I depress the vacuum release button and the filling stops. This is, IMO, the key to the system. If the bottle gets overfilled, the released vacuum allows the wine to syphon down to the level of the fill tube. I then remove the bung, release the vacuum relief valve, and switch out for another empty bottle. As soon as I place the bung back in the new bottle, it begins to fill automatically. Repeat until done. I rarely lose a single drop.

Again, I am speaking from experience. I have filled hundreds of bottles of wine using Steve's allinonewinepump, and have yet to encounter any of the problems that have been mentioned here. 

I'll tell you what, guys. I'll give you the best guarantee that money can't buy. _If any of you purchase an allinonewineump from Steve and absolutely hate it, I'll buy it from you._ Now you have no excuses!


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## Chiumanfu (May 8, 2012)

dangerdave said:


> When the bottle is filled, I depress the vacuum release button and the filling stops. This is, IMO, the key to the system. If the bottle gets overfilled, the released vacuum allows the wine to syphon down to the level of the fill tube.



I think you are right, this is probably the difference between my bottling setup and the allinone. I have a lever controlled ball valve to control the vacuum. The problem is even when I shut off the vacuum, there is still some residual negative pressure left which is causing all the problems. With a push button type purge valve, you can instantly blow off the vacuum just before the wine hits the overflow tube and then the wine will gravity siphon to the level of the fill tube (if the carboy is placed lower than the bottle). It makes sense now... I gotta hunt eBay for a good purge valve... or maybe just rearrange it so that one end of the ball valve is open instead of having it inline with the hose. 



dangerdave said:


> I'll tell you what, guys. I'll give you the best guarantee that money can't buy. _If any of you purchase an allinonewineump from Steve and absolutely hate it, I'll buy it from you._ Now you have no excuses!



Haha. That has got to be the best product endorsement I've seen in a long time. It's nice to see a customer so in love with a product that he's willing to back it up! If I wasn't so addicted to do-it-yourself projects, I would definitely have an allinone.


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## UBB (Jun 8, 2012)

As usual I'm a little late to the party. I did purchase the filter set up Steve recommended as well as the new carboy accessory. Had some family issues come up and everything got put on the back burner. I need to get going wracking/filtering/bottling as I am waaay behind. I still need to obtain the fitting in the filter housing to connect the hoses. What exactly is recommended in that regard. Thanks.


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## vacuumpumpman (Jun 8, 2012)

see
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/filter-plus-pump-i-read-i-know-just-dont-get-all-31139/
I gave all the links that Wade researched and found that works the best for the money


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## tingo (Jun 8, 2012)

Hi everyone!! I see we have quite the tennis match going on. I have learned over many years that bottling can become a big headache and used to dread it. Now its not bad at all. I use a 3gpm pump to pump wine from kegs or carboys up to an elevated empty carboy. As long as i have the speed turned down low and keep the hose end submersed oxidation is kept to a minimum. I can switch between various containers always keeping wine in the once empty carboy. From there i rack the wine into a three spout gravity filler. It is nice because when the wine gets low in the carboy i turn the pump on and fill it up. The filler always stays at the same level. I know it sounds complicated but it is rather simple. The only reason i dont go direct pump to filler is because of backflow and high pressures. The empty carboy acts as a mediator between the two.


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## vacuumpumpman (Jun 9, 2012)

tingo said:


> Hi everyone!! I see we have quite the tennis match going on. I have learned over many years that bottling can become a big headache and used to dread it. Now its not bad at all. I use a 3gpm pump to pump wine from kegs or carboys up to an elevated empty carboy. As long as i have the speed turned down low and keep the hose end submersed oxidation is kept to a minimum. I can switch between various containers always keeping wine in the once empty carboy. From there i rack the wine into a three spout gravity filler. It is nice because when the wine gets low in the carboy i turn the pump on and fill it up. The filler always stays at the same level. I know it sounds complicated but it is rather simple. The only reason i dont go direct pump to filler is because of backflow and high pressures. The empty carboy acts as a mediator between the two.


 

Thanks Tingo
I believe that this topic originaly started about filtration and took a little turn on bottling procedure. I believe that the type of bottling procedure that you have mentioned is mainly for a commercial standpoint and the cost to reflect the same thing vs a homewine making setup for the typical homeowner


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## Boyd (Jun 9, 2012)

I have read a number of times on this forum that vacumn racking removes the air from the recieving vessel so there is no wine contact with O2.

That would it seems to me hold true if a absolute vacumn could be acheived which I would think impossible without specialized equipment, and in any case would be likely to implode the recieving vessel. 

When racking wine that has not been degassed the co2 released helps in keeping the wine form contact with the oxygen.

I have a 15 gallon demejohn and vacumn rack to it, and have not had a problem. I hold the vacumn to about 10 lbs. I would not try to decgass in that jug because of the higher vacumn needed.

Degasing works fine in my 15 gallon carboys.


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## vacuumpumpman (Jun 15, 2012)

Boyd said:


> I have read a number of times on this forum that vacumn racking removes the air from the recieving vessel so there is no wine contact with O2.
> 
> That would it seems to me hold true if a absolute vacumn could be acheived which I would think impossible without specialized equipment, and in any case would be likely to implode the recieving vessel.
> 
> ...


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## Wade E (Jun 15, 2012)

I agree with vacuumpumpman. Im no scientist so xant say if thete is air or not nder vacuum but would imagine there is. I too am just using it to minimize air contact and not have to lift carboys as I havd a bad back. If not for vacuum pumps I would have stopped making wine long ago!!!!!


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## Boyd (Jun 15, 2012)

I am not knocking vacuum pumps. I have one, and use it on my larger carboys, and for degassing.

As far as contact with air I use a low vacuum to control the speed the wine goes around in the carboy. Takes awhile longer but that is ok. Might try a racking wand in the receiving carboy and see it that makes a difference.

I don't have a vacuum set up for bottling and filtering yet. I filter and bottle with my mini filter. Just put the discharge tube in the bottle and let her rip. Works fine for now. Probably a little slower but I am retired and have the time.

The mini filter loses a little wine so I am going to try a vise grip clamp and a couple of pieces of steel between the clamps. Seems to me the leakage may be caused by the pressuse applied by the screw on the outside of the filter may cause the center to bow some.

The vacuum setup is on my wish list along with a lot of other things.

As far as the smaller carboys are concerned I like to lift them. My back is in good shape and I think the exercise might even be good for me as long as I lift properly.


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