# MLF Starter



## fireguy94 (Sep 5, 2012)

Hey Guys,

So Ive been doing a lot of reading in preperation to do my first wine from grapes. I'll be doing a cab sav/merlot blend and am planning on doing MLF for it. I read the article on E.C. Kraus http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-malolactic-fermentation/. The one point that I haven't seen anybody talk about it the starter the the timing of it. According to the article he says I need to start the starter 2 weeks before I need to add it. I've looked on the forum and cant find anything. Whats your guys opinon on this. Why does MLB need much longer that the regular yeast to grow. Does it have a different growth rate. Should I just do the 2 week starter?

Matt


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## ibglowin (Sep 5, 2012)

Its nice if you can hit the ground running with an active culture but I would venture to say most folks just add it either right before crush or immediately right after crush. Follow the directions with the MLB you purchase. The MLB I used last year worked great. It was a freeze dried culture that needed no special rehydration at all. Just make sure your temp, pH, SO2 levels and alcohol levels are within the bounds for the specific MLB and pour right in. I added some Opti-Malo Plus nutrient as well to the must just before hand. Worked just fine. I used CH16 from More Wine.


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

Mike - How long did the CH16 take to finish - is it fast/slow?

I just ordered some for a wine that I'm really late getting it started in.


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## ibglowin (Sep 5, 2012)

Its fast under normal conditions (LOL). Here is the poop sheet with all you could ever want to know. I choose it because it had high alcohol tolerance, low pH tolerance and low temp tolerance. If you recall the CA harvest was so frickin late last year by the time i got the grapes fermented and pressed it was mid November and the temps in the winery were like 60 degrees. I warmed it up to 65 for a month or two to get it through and they all did, it just chugged along slowly at those temps. If you have 70-75 it should only take a few weeks. I just didn't want to warm up the entire winery to those temps and I didn't have enough brew belts or heating pads to just warm up just the primaries.


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

Looks good. I have two batches, each with 6 & 3g carboys. The trick will be to get it divided up.


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## ibglowin (Sep 5, 2012)

Its enough to do like 66 gallons so if you have a micro scale with 2 decimal places (mg) you should be good to go. Just divide it up 2/3, 1/3 and pitch it I did add the Opti-Malo before hand. That stuff stinks!


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

I have a good scale for the job, but no opti-malo. I figger I'll give the lees a quick stir up when I add the malo and call it good.

These were juice pails that I used GoFerm/Fermaid in. Hopefully there's enough of what the malo needs (whatever that is) left over.


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## ibglowin (Sep 5, 2012)

Gross lees is a good alternative to getting it going. Just look for the tiny pin prick sized bubbles at the top of the carboy for signs of activity. they will be really evident if the temps are up, not so much if your cooler (65)


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm running a very steady 70 in the winemaking area.


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## ibglowin (Sep 5, 2012)

That's the sweet spot on the temp chart.


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks for the help, Mike!


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## ibglowin (Sep 5, 2012)

You bet.

Do you have a Chromatography Kit to check for completion?


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

No kit. I'm wingin it


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## ibglowin (Sep 5, 2012)

Some claim to be able to taste it and tell if its done. I would end up with no wine left probably.....


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

LOL! Intentional MLF is new for me. I've always kept it at bay with SO2 ...

I'm hoping the little bubbles stop when it's done!


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## robie (Sep 5, 2012)

BobF said:


> LOL! Intentional MLF is new for me. I've always kept it at bay with SO2 ...
> 
> I'm hoping the little bubbles stop when it's done!


I have read the problem with not measuring the remaining malolactic acid level is once the malo acid is gone, the mlb will go after other things in the wine and it can ruin the taste. Not sure I would wing it, Bob.


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## BobF (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks for the tip. I've also read that LAB likes to munch on other stuff. With the 3 or 4 spontaneous MLFs I've had (no 'I' in that ;-)), the bubbles dropped off to zilch and I gave them a dose of SO2.

I figger I'll do the same with these. It's not that I don't care about these batches, but they started out short on volume, already fermenting, decided on MLF as an after thought ... you get the picture.

If I end up sulfiting a little early, leaving a bit of malic, that's OK. These aren't that rough to begin with.

I haven't opened these up since the first racking, so I'll be testing everything before I actually pitch the bugs. If the taste and numbers are good, I'll probably save the culture for future batches.


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## fireguy94 (Sep 5, 2012)

Um so I'm guessing that would be a no on needing a long 2 week starter like the article I read suggested. Its the only place that has mentioned it. Both the morewine pdf and home winemaking step by step don't suggest that long. Morewine suggests about 30 min with acti-ML. Thats probably what I'll go with. Just curious why they suggested such a long starter


Matt


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## ibglowin (Sep 6, 2012)

I suspect that could be an old page/article that hasn't been updated in a while. Doing a starter is not a a bad idea by any means but is usually not necessary with today's MLB unless you have a wine that doesn't meet the criteria for the MLB your using (pH, ABV, etc) then it would be good to hit the ground running with some happy bugs.

Make sense?


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## laxmaster1 (Sep 18, 2012)

cant you just drop the temp below 60 or 65 to stop mlf?????? how does one get it stop on its own if temps remain 65-75 without adding so2 or whatever before it starts eating the other "stuff" in the wine?


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## ibglowin (Sep 18, 2012)

It only "eats" malic acid. When its all gone it will basically peter out on its own without food but it is not "dead" really only waiting around killing time looking for favorable conditions so that it may start up again. If you drop the temps it will stop but then it would start back up if the temps rise to a favorable condition and there was still malic acid present. You must add Sulfite and Lysozyme to have any chance of keeping it from happening on its own


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## JohnT (Sep 19, 2012)

Glowin - 

I have been using VF Enos for 10 years or so. WHAT A GREAT PRODUCT!!! I have had nothing but success with it In the freezer, it will survive for a year or so, so I do not worry about getting too much.


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## ibglowin (Sep 19, 2012)

John is that MLB this one?


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## JohnT (Sep 19, 2012)

Glowin, 

Sure is. What a great product. Been using it for quite a while.


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