# Starting PH?



## crabjoe (Jan 23, 2020)

I was just wondering, when making the initial must, what PH measurement should I be looking for?

I'm speaking of the initial must, with only the 1st 2 bottles of concentrate in the must.... before the 3rd is added.

Thanks!


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## cmason1957 (Jan 23, 2020)

If I follow the Skeeter pee recipe exactly, I never measure the pH.


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## crabjoe (Jan 23, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> If I follow the Skeeter pee recipe exactly, I never measure the pH.




I know.. And with so many posts in the past about SP stalling or having trouble starting, I was wondering where the must should be.

Tonight, I put 5 gallons of sugar water in a bucket (9 lbs of sugar) and added 64oz of Aldi lemon juice. so I ended up with 5.5 gallons..

And the magic PH number I got was ....... 2.97.

Used EC1118 yeast. SG was 1.076

Once I start seeing bubbles and the gravity drop, I'll post back.


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## cmason1957 (Jan 23, 2020)

If you proofed that yeast, as in let it bloom in some warmish water and then let it cool to the temp of the must, I think you will be fine. I have made it before with that lemon juice.


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## crabjoe (Jan 24, 2020)

It's been a bit over 12 hours and I went to check on the must..

There are no visible signs that the yeast have started, but I can hear a faint sizzle here and there.. so it sounds like at a PH of 2.97, EC1118 will work, but I know its straining.. I'll check this evening again, around the 24hr mark to see what it might be doing.


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 24, 2020)

crabjoe said:


> I was just wondering, when making the initial must, what PH measurement should I be looking for?



I don't follow the "recipe" but I deacidify it and work it to the point where the pH is in the 3.3-3.4 range. Never have issues of stuck fermentations.


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## crabjoe (Jan 24, 2020)

jgmillr1 said:


> I don't follow the "recipe" but I deacidify it and work it to the point where the pH is in the 3.3-3.4 range. Never have issues of stuck fermentations.



I was thinking about trying it in that PH range, but then I was thinking it might not be lemony enough. I was also thinking about trying to get my hand on some thompson grape juice.. using it and just a 32oz bottle of lemon juice.

BTW, when you say deacidify, are you saying you're using the same 3 bottles as the recipe calls for, but adding something like calcium carbonate to increase the PH?


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## crabjoe (Jan 25, 2020)

@jgmillr1

You've given me an idea.. I'm not sure how well it will work but here's the plan. Let me know what you think.

The plan for the next batch is to use all 96oz of lemon juice added to 5 gallons of sugar water... which would include the nutrients and what not. Use calcium carbonate to increase the PH to around 3.1-3.2. I'm thinking at that level, I should get able to get a decent fermentation going. Once it's done fermentation and cleared, I'll push it through a sterile filter (0.35 micron) to remove any possible chalky taste. 

I'm thinking since the PH will be higher, I'd need less sugar to back sweeten with... I hoping this will allow it to get the same flavor profile or something very close to the original recipe since the lemon essence will still be there, just the acid would have been reduced.


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 28, 2020)

@crabjoe

This is similar to what I do with using the calcium carbonate to deacidify to a good pH for the fermentation. You'll use quite a bit of it and it will leave a chalky sludge at the bottom of the container. It filters out nicely with a 1um filter.

I've noticed calcium citrate crystals at times when I've heavily used the calcium carbonate. Unfortunately time is the only way to drop these since they aren't strongly temperature dependent like with potassium bitartrate.

So you'll have to measure your TA and decide where you want the sweetness to end up. I went for more lemon juice overall for the flavor and so the TA is higher, meaning I must add more sugar for balance. I've still been adjusting the recipe to dial it in. It's good now though at least.


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 28, 2020)

crabjoe said:


> when you say deacidify, are you saying you're using the same 3 bottles as the recipe calls for, but adding something like calcium carbonate



I'm using calcium carbonate and bicarbonate for the deacidification. I don't use the bottles, so you'll have to track the pH and TA with it on your brew.


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## crabjoe (Jan 29, 2020)

Update on PH.

I took a hydrometer reading it was showing 1.045. Mix mixed in the extra nutrients and took a PH. 

PH was showing 2.45. I was shocked and worried it might drop a bit more if I add the 3rd bottle of lemon juice. I thought my PH meter needed calibration and I calibrated and took the PH again. PH 2.45 again. I was worried.

Went a head and added the 3rd bottle. stirred like crazy and took a PH reading. To my surprise, the PH went up to PH 2.75.

Now the wait to see what happens at this PH level.... Will it stress the yeast too much and cause a stink, or will it chug along to finish... I guess I'll find out soon.


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## cmason1957 (Jan 29, 2020)

If you just took your freshly calibrated Ph Meter and dunked it into your fermentation bucket, you can ignore the reading. If you take a sample out, shake it, then heat it a bit to drive off all the CO2 and carbonic acid that's brewing there, it might be close to something useful, that stirring of the must and the PH went up is a dead giveaway.


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## crabjoe (Jan 29, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> If you just took your freshly calibrated Ph Meter and dunked it into your fermentation bucket, you can ignore the reading. If you take a sample out, shake it, then heat it a bit to drive off all the CO2 and carbonic acid that's brewing there, it might be close to something useful, that stirring of the must and the PH went up is a dead giveaway.



I had sitrred the must before taking the sample. I stirred till I got as close to no bubbles as possible. That sample was PH 2.45. After I added the lemon juice then stirred again is when it went up to 2.75.

I didn't think there would be much carbonic acid left because it was almost bubble free.

BTW, if I heat up the sample, might that in itself change the PH? If not, that's the route I'll take the next time.


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## Johnd (Jan 29, 2020)

crabjoe said:


> I had sitrred the must before taking the sample. I stirred till I got as close to no bubbles as possible. That sample was PH 2.45. After I added the lemon juice then stirred again is when it went up to 2.75.
> 
> I didn't think there would be much carbonic acid left because it was almost bubble free.
> 
> BTW, if I heat up the sample, might that in itself change the PH? If not, that's the route I'll take the next time.



It's not about the bubbles that you can see, it's about the CO2 in solution in the must. For a reading on an actively fermenting must to be accurate, it needs to be completely degassed, and warming helps that endeavor.


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