# Wine bottle shortage?



## NorCal (Nov 20, 2021)

I saw on the news that there was a bottle shortage affecting wineries. Hmmm, I thought I’d reach out to the two sources I use to buy bottles (25-50 cases / year). One is a smaller reseller, the other a large distributor, where you need to commit to a pallet of bottles. Neither had bottles to sell. The distributor said it was a 4-8 month problem, but would not commit on any future orders because of the supply chain uncertainty. I don’t need the bottles until next summer, but without them I’d have a problem.

Fortunately, I found a fellow wine maker a state over that has excess, which I purchased and need to go pick up. Just wanted to give others a heads up in case you come across the same situation.

.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 20, 2021)

Thanks for the head's up. I have numerous people saving bottles for me, so I'm good for bottling the 2020's. I've got 9-12 months before the 2021's go in the bottle, so I'll be looking for more sources.


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## ratflinger (Nov 20, 2021)

Wow, never thought we'd run out of sand


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 20, 2021)

Yikes! Just yesterday, I was thinking about getting some.


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## ceeaton (Nov 20, 2021)

Easy solution, just tip the carboy, LOL.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 20, 2021)

ceeaton said:


> Easy solution, just tip the carboy, LOL.


An acquaintance, a new winemaker, had a great Niagara at the end of October one year. She brought me a sample in February, badly oxidized.

She and her husband had been drinking out of the carboy since December.

Some how they didn't understand the "bottling" part of the process ...


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## ceeaton (Nov 20, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> An acquaintance, a new winemaker, had a great Niagara at the end of October one year. She brought me a sample in February, badly oxidized.
> 
> She and her husband had been drinking out of the carboy since December.
> 
> Some how they didn't understand the "bottling" part of the process ...


You must top it up if you tip too much!


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## Scooter68 (Nov 20, 2021)

Ah the advantage of using recycled bottles. My only problem is when I get my colors and shape of bottle mixed up and have to stand them in a line to sort it out. EVEN the same exact brand and "species:" of wine will occasionally have a variance in the bottle color or height. MIght be only 1/8 -3./8" but you can see it when they are all lined up. I try to store them all sorted but.... Murphy's law.....


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## winemaker81 (Nov 20, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> My only problem is when I get my colors and shape of bottle mixed up and have to stand them in a line to sort it out.


I do the same, sort of. I use primarily Bordeaux bottles, as the labels work on all of 'em, regardless of height, and they _mostly_ stack better. I sort them by case size, e.g, tall bottles go in tall case, medium in medium, etc. This is for green bottles. I segregate the much fewer blue, brown, and clear bottles.

Sure, I have tried to sort by color & shape, but therein lies the path to madness!

Unfortunately I sometimes have to use other bottle shapes, and these are the ones I give away first. If I don't get them back, it's not as much of a loss.


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## bjoll001 (Nov 21, 2021)

The guy at my local wine making shop said the bottles are on one of the cargo ships waiting to come into port due to the back up. Unpredictable when the bottles will arrive in port.


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## Scooter68 (Nov 23, 2021)

Madness did you say hah had, I have escaped the men in the white coats several times. Not but much but....

Yeah it's interesting when I'm plucking bottles out of the metal bins at the recycling center. Especially when you lean way over, finally get that bottle within reach and pull it up. Looks good, color shape etc. NUTs Screw top. 
But again as you say I do have some tolerance for slight mis-matches and with smaller batch sizes of 1 gal or 3 gallons I can usually sort out multiples of 5.

Oh and Yeah I hate those burgundy ones that my tall round top labels wrinkle on no matter how low I place the bottom of the label.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING ONE AND ALL (Even you blokes across the pond on the Continent to our east.)


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## oppyland (Dec 14, 2021)

I'm going to be short some bottles in the next few weeks, so I checked with a local distributor. They have stock, but the cost seems kind of high ~ $1.80 - $2.15 each depending on type. Honestly, I have nothing to compare the cost to since I have always used recycled. Anyone have thoughts?


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## winemaker81 (Dec 14, 2021)

oppyland said:


> They have stock, but the cost seems kind of high ~ $1.80 - $2.15 each depending on type.


The few cases I've purchased have been in the $12 to $15 USD range, so that seems high.


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## oppyland (Dec 14, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> The few cases I've purchased have been in the $12 to $15 USD range, so that seems high.


Thanks - that's what I was thinking. I was hoping to buy local so I could pick them up and save on shipping.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 14, 2021)

I stopped at a local winery a few weeks ago and picked up 5 cases of empties. I'll be stopping back monthly or so -- it will cost me $10 for a tasting and I'll probably buy a bottle each time ... which is fine with me!


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## oppyland (Dec 14, 2021)

Yeah, we have a winery in my small town. They will happily give me empties (they won't save them, but they'll give me what they have and don't care if I dumpster dive), but they use the most ridiculous glue to affix the labels - almost impossible to get them off!


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## winemaker81 (Dec 14, 2021)

oppyland said:


> but they use the most ridiculous glue to affix the labels - almost impossible to get them off!


I soak bottles in hot tap water with Oxyclean, removing them when the bottles are still hot. Any residue that remains comes off with Goo Gone.


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## oppyland (Dec 14, 2021)

I wish! The only way I can remove these is a razor blade and acetone. Everything else I can soak and use a plastic scraper.


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## Chuck E (Dec 14, 2021)

oppyland said:


> I wish! The only way I can remove these is a razor blade and acetone. Everything else I can soak and use a plastic scraper.



Have you tried putting boiling water in the bottles? If the glue is thermally activated, boiling water may soften it for removal.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 14, 2021)

I was at the liquor store a couple weeks ago and while standing in the bourbon section, overheard another customer asking if they had any Gentleman Jack in the back - that section of the shelf was empty. He was told that Jack Daniels and Jim Beam (among others) are having issues delivering product due to a bottle shortage. Sure enough, there were several out of stock bourbons that normally aren't rare at all.


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## wineview (Dec 15, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> I soak bottles in hot tap water with Oxyclean, removing them when the bottles are still hot. Any residue that remains comes off with Goo Gone.


Ditto above but sometimes Goo Gone doesn’t work. In those cases a bit of lacquer thinner on a paper towel does the job after scraping off the label. I am careful when rinsing them not to get anything inside the bottle.


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## oppyland (Dec 15, 2021)

Chuck E said:


> Have you tried putting boiling water in the bottles? If the glue is thermally activated, boiling water may soften it for removal.


No, I have tried hot water but not boiling. I suspect whatever glue they're using isn't thermally activated, because the hot water didn't seem to soften the glue at all. 

I'm picking up a bunch of bottles with the mega glue this weekend (can't beat the price), so I'll give boiling water a shot. Thanks!


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## wineview (Dec 15, 2021)

oppyland said:


> No, I have tried hot water but not boiling. I suspect whatever glue they're using isn't thermally activated, because the hot water didn't seem to soften the glue at all.
> 
> I'm picking up a bunch of bottles with the mega glue this weekend (can't beat the price), so I'll give boiling water a shot. Thanks!


If that fails, lacquer thinner is a sure winner.


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## oppyland (Dec 15, 2021)

wineview said:


> If that fails, lacquer thinner is a sure winner.


Yeah, I've been using acetone. I vastly prefer the bottles that practically shed their labels in water.


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## wineview (Dec 15, 2021)

oppyland said:


> Yeah, I've been using acetone. I vastly prefer the bottles that practically shed their labels in water.


Who wouldn’t? I’ve noticed, the more expensive the wine, the tougher it is to remove the labels.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 15, 2021)

Chuck E said:


> Have you tried putting boiling water in the bottles? If the glue is thermally activated, boiling water may soften it for removal.



Just because I tend to play it safe, I wouldn't put boiling water into a bottle if it wasn't Pyrex. I do use warm/hot water from the tap to sometimes soften the glue though.


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## David Violante (Dec 15, 2021)

I've had great success with putting bottles in the oven for 10 mins and then peeling the labels right off. It's a good idea to make sure the bottle is rinsed well but also that there isn't too much water in the bottle when you're baking it. It's also a good idea to bring the bottle up to temperature with the oven and not just place a cold bottle in a hot oven. Likewise, let them cool on their own once the label is peeled off. Be sure to use oven mitts. I imagine the success of this technique depends on the type of label /glue used on the bottle.


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## raspberry (Dec 15, 2021)

wineview said:


> Ditto above but sometimes Goo Gone doesn’t work. In those cases a bit of lacquer thinner on a paper towel does the job after scraping off the label. I am careful when rinsing them not to get anything inside the bottle.


put a cork in the bottle and you will not have to be so care full


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## ChuckD (Dec 15, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> I stopped at a local winery a few weeks ago and picked up 5 cases of empties. I'll be stopping back monthly or so -- it will cost me $10 for a tasting and I'll probably buy a bottle each time ... which is fine with me!


Empties?? Where’s the fun in that. We do it the old fashioned way and empty them ourselves . My wife just got a case delivered today.


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## ChuckD (Dec 15, 2021)

All kidding aside, we have been saving up for a few years but what I have sitting in carboys will use up most of them. We have a few people saving them for us, and I talked to a fellow wine maker who told me I can have all her dark bottles because she likes clear ones that show the wine.


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## ratflinger (Dec 15, 2021)

PBW (Powered Brewery Wash) usually handles my tough labels.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Dec 16, 2021)

I’ve not noticed any shortages I bought like 500 bottles this year from a winemaking shop.


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## NorCal (Dec 16, 2021)

Nebbiolo020 said:


> I’ve not noticed any shortages I bought like 500 bottles this year from a winemaking shop.


I didn‘t see a shortage this year, but with 150 gallons plan on bottling next year, my sources say they have a problem supplying me bottles.


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## BMarNJ (Dec 16, 2021)

I use the boiling water method, but it only works on a limited number of bottles , J Lohr, St. francis cabs come off super easy. And then olive oil to get rid of any residue if its not one of those two. Those chemicals sound scary. If a label is too hard to remove, I drink a different wine! But I only bottle about 140 a year. After recycling for a 2 years, I am all set.


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## JoeM (Dec 16, 2021)

I use WD40 . Takes glue off easily.


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## Newbie Mel (Dec 16, 2021)

I use a handheld steamer (for clothing) about 30 seconds. It loosens the glue. Then scrape it off and use isopropyl alcohol to wipe the residue off. I’ve been cleaning labels off bottles for craft projects long before I started to make wine and this is the only method I have had success with.


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## montanarick (Dec 16, 2021)

I used to put bottles in the oven but find it easier to put a small amount of water into bottle and put it in micro-wave for a minute. ninety nine percent of labels peal right off easily. sometimes there's some glue residue left which i use VM&P Naptha. this cleans readily, not as problematic as acetone or lacquer thinner, and doesn't leave any oily residue like mineral spirits or wd-40


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## Steve Wargo (Dec 16, 2021)

Commercial off-the-shelf wine labels are a pain. I don't think there is a label removal technique that is a fit-all solution. If so I'm all eyes. There are labels that come off soaked in soapy water. Some labels peel off (leaving residue) if the inside of the bottle is warmed with hot tap water. Some glue under the label is hard and easily scrapes off with a paint window scrapper. Some labels have two different types of glue. One type applied to the back label, one type for the front label. I've run into some labels, if they get wet, some crazy chemical reaction happens and it turns into the label from hell. Those get tossed. I usually start with a window paint remover. If the glue seems tacky under the label, I'll test the other side label. Then I'll either continue scraping or fill the bottle 3/4 with hot tap water, or both. I haven't put bottles into a microwave, or oven as yet to remove the labels. Getting rid of the glue residue is another step in the process. I think we should make a call to our elected representatives demanding them to put restrictions on the types of glue manufacturers can use for labeling You know for recycling sake. My opinion is not intended to represent the opinion of others. IMO.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 16, 2021)

High end wines having glue that makes label removal all but impossible makes sense -- it prevents counterfeiting. If I made a wine that sold for $50+ USD per bottle, I'd do the same. There is financial incentive to remove a label from such a bottle and stick it on a $5 bottle.

OTOH, I use very easy to remove and re-stick labels as the commercial value of my wines is $0.00 USD, and I LOVE being able to simply peel the label off, rinse the bottle, and put it on the tree.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Dec 16, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I didn‘t see a shortage this year, but with 150 gallons plan on bottling next year, my sources say they have a problem supplying me bottles.


That’s a lot of wine, I hope you can find bottles.


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## Bmd2k1 (Dec 16, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> High end wines having glue that makes label removal all but impossible makes sense -- it prevents counterfeiting. If I made a wine that sold for $50+ USD per bottle, I'd do the same. There is financial incentive to remove a label from such a bottle and stick it on a $5 bottle.
> 
> OTOH, I use very easy to remove and re-stick labels as the commercial value of my wines is $0.00 USD, and I LOVE being able to simply peel the label off, rinse the bottle, and put it on the tree.


What brand of labels?


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## winemaker81 (Dec 16, 2021)

Bmd2k1 said:


> What brand of labels?


Avery Surface Safe White Film for Signs. I use 6 labels per sheet, 3-1/3" x 4", Avery template Presta 94215


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## ratflinger (Dec 17, 2021)

Onlinelabels.com has has easy to remove labels also. OL2547WR. They also have a free label making program.


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## MHSKIBUM (Dec 17, 2021)

I usually stick bottles in hot water and let the labels peel off. For stubborn labels I put the bottles in an ice cooler and keep the water warm for 24 hours with a sous vide machine. That just leaves some of the real nasty ones. Unless I'm desperate, I let those go but if you really need every last bottle, let the labels dry, spray them with a slight sprit of WD40 and wrap the label tightly in Saran wrap or piece of a plastic bag. I've never found a label that with a bit of finish scraping/wiping that can defy a 48-hour wrap.
I've also found tired/discouraged/retiring winemakers on Facebook Marketplace who will part with their bottles at a reasonable price, especially if you are willing to buy the entire lot. I just bought the nine cases of bottles, clean and no labels for $50 Cdn. See photo.


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## wineview (Dec 18, 2021)

MHSKIBUM said:


> I usually stick bottles in hot water and let the labels peel off. For stubborn labels I put the bottles in an ice cooler and keep the water warm for 24 hours with a sous vide machine. That just leaves some of the real nasty ones. Unless I'm desperate, I let those go but if you really need every last bottle, let the labels dry, spray them with a slight sprit of WD40 and wrap the label tightly in Saran wrap or piece of a plastic bag. I've never found a label that with a bit of finish scraping/wiping that can defy a 48-hour wrap.
> I've also found tired/discouraged/retiring winemakers on Facebook Marketplace who will part with their bottles at a reasonable price, especially if you are willing to buy the entire lot. I just bought the nine cases of bottles, clean and no labels for $50 Cdn. See photo.


What a bargain.


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## dmguptill (Dec 20, 2021)

MHSKIBUM said:


> I usually stick bottles in hot water and let the labels peel off. For stubborn labels I put the bottles in an ice cooler and keep the water warm for 24 hours with a sous vide machine. That just leaves some of the real nasty ones. Unless I'm desperate, I let those go but if you really need every last bottle, let the labels dry, spray them with a slight sprit of WD40 and wrap the label tightly in Saran wrap or piece of a plastic bag. I've never found a label that with a bit of finish scraping/wiping that can defy a 48-hour wrap.
> I've also found tired/discouraged/retiring winemakers on Facebook Marketplace who will part with their bottles at a reasonable price, especially if you are willing to buy the entire lot. I just bought the nine cases of bottles, clean and no labels for $50 Cdn. See photo.


Seconded. Years ago I bought a couple dozen cases of used bottles on FB marketplace and Craig's list for not too much. Some had labels, some not. Still haven't used them all up!


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## Gussman (Dec 23, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I saw on the news that there was a bottle shortage affecting wineries. Hmmm, I thought I’d reach out to the two sources I use to buy bottles (25-50 cases / year). One is a smaller reseller, the other a large distributor, where you need to commit to a pallet of bottles. Neither had bottles to sell. The distributor said it was a 4-8 month problem, but would not commit on any future orders because of the supply chain uncertainty. I don’t need the bottles until next summer, but without them I’d have a problem.
> 
> Fortunately, I found a fellow wine maker a state over that has excess, which I purchased and need to go pick up. Just wanted to give others a heads up in case you come across the same situation.
> 
> .


Awesome. Which state is the supplier located in?


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## Gussman (Dec 23, 2021)

wineview said:


> What a bargain.


Lemon oil from Young Living does the work for you


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## Gussman (Dec 23, 2021)

wineview said:


> Ditto above but sometimes Goo Gone doesn’t work. In those cases a bit of lacquer thinner on a paper towel does the job after scraping off the label. I am careful when rinsing them not to get anything inside the bottle.


Lemon Oil from yYoung Living safe and removes labels.


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## wineview (Dec 23, 2021)

I lived in Hoboken for 40 years. It’s a city full of restaurants. I would go down to the corner cafe every Thursday on recycling night and pick whatever I wanted.


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## NorCal (Jan 3, 2022)

I guess I am in the minority. I reuse my bottles as I know they are properly cleaned. I don’t trust that others that I give my wine to that they did it well enough, nor do I want to spend the time to thoroughly clean and remove labels of hundreds of bottles each year. New bottles just goes into the average cost per bottle of finished wine ($6) for me.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 3, 2022)

NorCal said:


> I guess I am in the minority. I reuse my bottles as I know they are properly cleaned. I don’t trust that others that I give my wine to that they did it well enough, nor do I want to spend the time to thoroughly clean and remove labels of hundreds of bottles each year. New bottles just goes into the average cost per bottle of finished wine ($6) for me.



I'm right there with you although I do reuse bottles from my wine that is returned to me. To be fair to others though you probably get your for a fairly decent price. I don't do too bad myself a $10 - $12 a case. If one had to buy at retail prices then include shipping the cost of new might be too much to bare.


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## NorCal (Jan 3, 2022)

mainshipfred said:


> I'm right there with you although I do reuse bottles from my wine that is returned to me. To be fair to others though you probably get your for a fairly decent price. I don't do too bad myself a $10 - $12 a case. If one had to buy at retail prices then include shipping the cost of new might be too much to bare.


Last year we were quoted $10.27, local pick-up, but found some bottles on sale at a wine supply store in Napa for a discount $8. I got 50 cases and shared with others.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 3, 2022)

NorCal said:


> Last year we were quoted $10.27, local pick-up, but found some bottles on sale at a wine supply store in Napa for a discount $8. I got 50 cases and shared with others.



I'm always on the look out. This past year I got 40 free cases of 375s. I kept 2 and gave the rest away. A few years ago a winery had an excess of what I call wide neck bottles for $6 a case. I think I bought 50 cases, kept 30 and sold the others to fellow winemakers for the cost. Both of these were found through my local vineyard association. The 10 - 12 dollar cases come from my commercial contacts so I feel I'm pretty lucky.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 3, 2022)

I suspect formative years have a lot to do with perspective. My parents grew up during the Great Depression, and their mindset was to waste nothing and make-do. Don't pay someone else to do what you can do yourself. This was taught to me at an early age. I've passed this along to the next generation, so my sons can replace a ceiling fan and repair a toilet. Both operate under the do-it-yourself concept.

As a result, soaking labels and cleaning bottles is normal. When I'm done, my bottles are cleaner than new ones.

This post is intended to encourage folks to do what is necessary to achieve their goals.


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## oppyland (Jan 3, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Don't pay someone else to do what you can do yourself. This was taught to me at an early age. I've passed this along to the next generation, so my sons can replace a ceiling fan and repair a toilet. Both operate under the do-it-yourself concept.


Same here. My youngest daughter, who is a veterinary opthalmologist, rebuilt the carburetor on her lawnmower (an old used one she bought for $50) by herself. I was almost prouder of that than when she graduated with her DVM. 


> This post is intended to encourage folks to do what is necessary to achieve their goals.


Absolutely! Although I might actually buy bottles if I could get them new for less than a buck a piece!

EDIT: forgot to mention, I picked up 6 cases of empties from the local winery. They're using different labels - much easier to remove!


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## Scooter68 (Jan 3, 2022)

Our city (60K Population) has enough flow in the recycling center that I can, if I want to get picky, take only specific known brands of wine empties and then know exactly what label removal requires. I do find it frustrating as at least one person mentioned that front and back labels on the same wine are using different label glues. The front melts right off in hot water. The other, a 3 step process, Soak - peel Top layer, Soak again, scrape second layer, soak scrub with scotch brite pad and dishwashing liquid concentrated. Then rinse and initial sanitization before storing.
The key for me is to start very early, like when I ferment the batch, start collecting and cleaning the bottles for that batch that won't be bottled for at least 9 months out.


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## Sailor323 (Jan 4, 2022)

Local restaurants are a good source of used bottles. Most of the bottle in my cellar came from restaurants.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 4, 2022)

Scooter68 said:


> The key for me is to start very early, like when I ferment the batch, start collecting and cleaning the bottles for that batch that won't be bottled for at least 9 months out.


I collect bottles continuously, and process them as soon as I get them. This avoids that last minute rush!

A local winery is happy to give away empties -- I got 5 cases (including 3 cases of blue bottles!) last month and my son got 4 cases a few days ago. These bottles are not ideal for me -- flat bottomed (I prefer a punt) and the labels can be a PITA to get off. However, the winery rinses the bottles as soon as they are emptied, so I don't have to deal with mold (although I check!).

Side note -- these bottles are straight sided (I HATE the ones that are wider at the top), and without the punt are a bit shorter, so they fit into every case I have. This is an advantage.

So I setup an assembly line -- half a scoop of Oxyclean in the sink with hot water, fill 8 bottles, and let them soak. 30 minutes later I peel off the outer layer and scrape what's left. Some peel cleanly, some do not. The ones that don't get sprayed with Goo Gone, and 30 minutes later I wipe them with a paper towel, then wash the outside with dish soap. Repeat until the water gets too cold.

Two years ago I purchased 10 cases of Bordeaux bottles as part of a group purchase at $11/case. I had ramped up wine production and knew I was not going to have enough bottles. Since then I'm ramped up the bottle search, and currently have plenty to bottle my remaining 2020 reds, and am in good position to bottle the 2021 wines next summer and fall.

My local price for bottles, including tax, is about $16/case. Using the money I'm not spending on bottles, I can buy more wine making materials! 


All that said, I admit it IS nice to not have to mess with cleaning bottles ....


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## Cellar_Dweller (Jan 6, 2022)

Like a lot of you, I'm into recycling/reuse. I reuse my own bottles (triple rinse, drain and dry), and delabel certain commercial wines that we buy. The best way I've found to delabel is using heat. After my wife is finished with baking in the oven, and it cools to about 300 deg. F, I will put a load of bottles in for 5 to 10 min. to soften the glue. Then using a pair of heavy leather gloves, I use a knife to peal the corner of a label off and then grab the corner and slowly pull. Generally, the entire label comes off leaving little residue. The trick is not to soften the glue too much, so that it sticks to the paper of the label. Too hot or too long, and the glue gets too soft and wants to stick to the bottle. Experiment. YRMV. If one type of label doesn't "behave", it goes straight to recycling.

Greg


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## Jovimaple (Jan 7, 2022)

Cellar_Dweller said:


> Like a lot of you, I'm into recycling/reuse. I reuse my own bottles (triple rinse, drain and dry), and delabel certain commercial wines that we buy. The best way I've found to delabel is using heat. After my wife is finished with baking in the oven, and it cools to about 300 deg. F, I will put a load of bottles in for 5 to 10 min. to soften the glue. Then using a pair of heavy leather gloves, I use a knife to peal the corner of a label off and then grab the corner and slowly pull. Generally, the entire label comes off leaving little residue. The trick is not to soften the glue too much, so that it sticks to the paper of the label. Too hot or too long, and the glue gets too soft and wants to stick to the bottle. Experiment. YRMV. If one type of label doesn't "behave", it goes straight to recycling.
> 
> Greg


I have started recycling bottles with labels that don't cooperate. I always feel so guilty, though - it's a perfectly good bottle! But then I remind myself of the time and aggravation I am saving myself, and I move on. Ha!

I usually soak bottles in hot water, then use a plastic scraper. I peel off as much as I can and then use a magic eraser to get the rest. My own labels come off easily with that method. For others, I put in a little effort but then recycle as soon as I remember I don't HAVE to keep them all.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 7, 2022)

Sailor323 said:


> Local restaurants are a good source of used bottles. Most of the bottle in my cellar came from restaurants.



One of the advantages to that is a known type of bottle if the restaurant sells a limited variety or 'pushes' specific brands of wine. That makes it much easier to get matching bottles over time. Fortunately I would hope that most restaurants prefer the old-fashioned "Corked" bottles over screw tops as that would appear a little classier to customers. (Appearances matter so...)


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## winemaker81 (Jan 7, 2022)

Scooter68 said:


> Fortunately I would hope that most restaurants prefer the old-fashioned "Corked" bottles over screw tops as that would appear a little classier to customers. (Appearances matter so...)


For reds, definitely. However, I'm seeing more and more whites in screwcap bottles.


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## Jovimaple (Jan 7, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> For reds, definitely. However, I'm seeing more and more whites in screwcap bottles.


I have moved away from screw cap bottles since corks are cheaper. (And I also got a floor corker which made it so I didn't need Hubby's help like I did when corking with a hand corker.)

It became bothersome to try to get the bottles AND caps back from friends.


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## SouthernVino (Jan 7, 2022)

I too reuse my bottles. New commercial bottles I remove labels wash, rinse, and dry. I store all of them upside down in boxes. At bottling time, all I have to do is sterilize with StarSan and bottle. Quick and easy.

To remove labels, I just take a pan of boiling water and pour it into the bottle. Let’s it sit for a few minutes, then pour out the water and peel the labels off. If I have more than one bottle to do, instead of pouring out the water, I just pour it into the next bottle. While I am peeling the label for one, the other is being prepared for the same process.

for any left over residue from the glue, I rub some Olive Oil on it with a paper towel til removed and wash with warm water.

The whole process is quick, easy, and uses no chemicals.


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## Mike53154 (Jan 16, 2022)

SouthernVino said:


> I too reuse my bottles. New commercial bottles I remove labels wash, rinse, and dry. I store all of them upside down in boxes. At bottling time, all I have to do is sterilize with StarSan and bottle. Quick and easy.
> 
> To remove labels, I just take a pan of boiling water and pour it into the bottle. Let’s it sit for a few minutes, then pour out the water and peel the labels off. If I have more than one bottle to do, instead of pouring out the water, I just pour it into the next bottle. While I am peeling the label for one, the other is being prepared for the same process.
> 
> ...



I normally soak my bottles in hot water with oxiclean for a couple hours and scrape the labels off with a plastic scraper and sometimes if necessary a safety razor blade 

Another great option would be to take a hairdryer and heat the lable starting on one end, as you heat the lable, peel it off as you move the heat slowly across the lable. Easy peezy


----------



## TurkeyHollow (Jan 19, 2022)

I also reuse bottles so I made this sheet to remind me of just how foolish I can be with my time:
Just wasting time
Oh yeah... the spreadsheet should have a column for time wasted on creating a wasted time spreadsheet but I then would have to put another wasted time column in for contemplating adding wasted time columns!


----------



## Jovimaple (Jan 20, 2022)

TurkeyHollow said:


> I also reuse bottles so I made this sheet to remind me of just how foolish I can be with my time:
> Just wasting time
> Oh yeah... the spreadsheet should have a column for time wasted on creating a wasted time spreadsheet but I then would have to put another wasted time column in for contemplating adding wasted time columns!


I have done similar calculations and came to the same conclusion.

I got about 14 cases of used bottles from Craigslist last summer and fall. (The third time, the guy just texted me directly instead of posting it). I FINALLY am done delabeling and washing them all.

I have a dozen more bottles from some friends and then all my used bottles are clean and ready for my own wine and labels. Giving myself permission to recycle those with really tough labels was a game changer, and the delabeling time vs. my day job hourly salary helped to convince me.

I am ready for what I currently have in production, but have already warned hubby that I will need to buy several more cases for everything I have planned for this summer!


----------



## VinesnBines (Jan 20, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> I have done similar calculations and came to the same conclusion.
> 
> I got about 14 cases of used bottles from Craigslist last summer and fall. (The third time, the guy just texted me directly instead of posting it). I FINALLY am done delabeling and washing them all.
> 
> ...


Watch Facebook Marketplace for free bottles. Also, our state vineyard association has an exchange or classified page. I picked up nine cases of new bottles from a winery that was changing styles. Mainshipfred got a boatload of 350ml the same way and shared with a number of folks. Thanks again Fred! If your state has a winery and or vineyard association, check with them. Some wineries sell the extra cases of new bottles at a discount rather than store them.


----------



## winemaker81 (Jan 20, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> I got about 14 cases of used bottles from Craigslist last summer and fall. (The third time, the guy just texted me directly instead of posting it). I FINALLY am done delabeling and washing them all.


I've been cleaning bottles for so many years that I don't even think about it.

A local winery is happy to give way the empties from the tasting room. Their labels have a plastic finish, and I took a tip and fill them with very hot water. Let them stand a few minutes and the labels peel right off. I put the bottles in a sink with Oxyclean, and any remaining glue softens and comes right off. This winery rinses all bottles immediately when empty, so they are clean, but I soak 'em anyway. I did 5 cases in a day.


----------



## Old Corker (Jan 20, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> I have done similar calculations and came to the same conclusion.
> 
> I got about 14 cases of used bottles from Craigslist last summer and fall. (The third time, the guy just texted me directly instead of posting it). I FINALLY am done delabeling and washing them all.
> 
> ...


If I tell my wife I'm going to buy new bottles when she is in just the right mood, she will scrape the crap out of some labels. Not sure how to calculate that though.


----------



## oppyland (Jan 20, 2022)

TurkeyHollow said:


> I also reuse bottles so I made this sheet to remind me of just how foolish I can be with my time:
> Just wasting time
> Oh yeah... the spreadsheet should have a column for time wasted on creating a wasted time spreadsheet but I then would have to put another wasted time column in for contemplating adding wasted time columns!


Of course, you could extrapolate that to include the labor cost involved in making the wine as well.  Hobbies aren't generally good ways to make money!


----------



## winemaker81 (Jan 21, 2022)

A friend bottled in gallon jugs -- he decanted into 4 quart or five 750 ml when he needed wine.

First time in his cellar, we walked down a hall to his winemaking area. It took a bit for me to realize the walls of the hallway were 4 count boxes of gallon jugs, stacked floor to ceiling. That was a lot of wine.

Clear jugs are available in bulk for a bit over $6 USD each.






Amazon.com: Arkansas Glass Container FastRack One Gallon Glass Jug with 38mm Black Metal Screw Cap (Set of 16), 11.34 x 7.64 x 3.54 inches, Clear: Home & Kitchen


Amazon.com: Arkansas Glass Container FastRack One Gallon Glass Jug with 38mm Black Metal Screw Cap (Set of 16), 11.34 x 7.64 x 3.54 inches, Clear: Home & Kitchen



www.amazon.com


----------



## NorCal (Jan 21, 2022)

Another option that I’ve used for short term storage is the smart bottle bags. Especially for skeeter pee (see post bag-o-pee) dragons blood, whites that are going to be consumed soon. The best thing is you can keep the oxygen out while you consume, now matter how little is left. Cheaper, lighter than bottles and more handy in many situations. The price recently got lowered and I just restocked for this years batch. The delivered cost was $19 for qty 10, 1/2 gallon bags, enough to do a 5 gallon carboy, and they are reusable.


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## Lukaswine (Jan 21, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I've been cleaning bottles for so many years that I don't even think about it.
> 
> A local winery is happy to give way the empties from the tasting room. Their labels have a plastic finish, and I took a tip and fill them with very hot water. Let them stand a few minutes and the labels peel right off. I put the bottles in a sink with Oxyclean, and any remaining glue softens and comes right off. This winery rinses all bottles immediately when empty, so they are clean, but I soak 'em anyway. I did 5 cases in a day.


I dislike removing labels and cleaning used bottles. Kudos to you for doing it!


----------



## winemaker81 (Jan 21, 2022)

Lukaswine said:


> I dislike removing labels and cleaning used bottles. Kudos to you for doing it!


I'm not all that fond of it either! It's a necessary evil ...


----------



## Jovimaple (Jan 21, 2022)

Lukaswine said:


> I dislike removing labels and cleaning used bottles. Kudos to you for doing it!


A couple people wonder why I just don't leave the existing labels on used bottles, or switch entirely to new bottles.

I'm too cheap to pass up free bottles, and too anal to leave the old labels on them - I want my own labels on my wines!


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## wpt-me (Jan 21, 2022)

Cleaning bottles and delabeling (in my thinking) is just part of the hobby!!

Bill


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## oppyland (Jan 21, 2022)

NorCal said:


> Another option that I’ve used for short term storage is the smart bottle bags.


Those are pretty cool! It would be kinda cool to rig something like that into a recycled wine box.


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## hounddawg (Jan 21, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I'm not all that fond of it either! It's a necessary evil ...


yup me too, my problem is,, i'll chunk used cases to the side, then time to clean them,, sadly i realize what have i done again,,,, all while cleaning 10 to 15 cases, last 4 years,, New Years Resolution , has failed me 4 outta 4,' times , like right this minute i have less then a case needing scraped,, i need to get the gumption up to clean them, it's way to cold to mess with the mules, had my jack trimmed a couple days ago, dang near froze my fingers off, just holding him, Farrier was a lady, first i have ever met, but she knew what she was doing, and climbed in to my jack as good as any man,,, Farriers are hard to find, good ones that is, she treated my jack very well indeed, ,, i ask to get inked in as a customer, yea i'm in for every 8 weeks, she liked pulling up to my barn or in to it if needed, with room for working, she mentioned several times about standing in mud, rain, snow, and she liked that all my animals get handled, i never liked having to battle with a animal 4 time bigger than me,, lol, even the dexter cows come running for a alfalfa cube, 
Dawg


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## Mike53154 (Jan 22, 2022)

Here's an idea  For wine bottles I've been buying on average 1 bottle of Aldies Winking Owl brand of wine a week for around $3 each. It cost me around $2 to buy an empty wine bottle on-line or at a local wine supply store.

After 1 year I'll have 52 reusable wine bottles and consumed over 10 gallons of palatable wine. I've often used some of that wine to top off the secondary.

Benefits of this method:

1. Wine to drink
2. Additional wine bottles to use again
3. Topping off secondary


----------



## Jovimaple (Jan 22, 2022)

Mike53154 said:


> Here's an idea  For wine bottles I've been buying on average 1 bottle of Aldies Winking Owl brand of wine a week for around $3 each. It cost me around $2 to buy an empty wine bottle on-line or at a local wine supply store.
> 
> After 1 year I'll have 52 reusable wine bottles and consumed over 10 gallons of palatable wine. I've often used some of that wine to top off the secondary.
> 
> ...


I love the 375 ml splits that come with Costco's advent calendar. I considered buying it just for the bottles.

But I don't care for dry wines, and so I would be wasting money for a bunch of wine I know already I am not going to like. (This summer, I participated in several virtual wine tastings - some vendors in my field (IT Security) set them up as a way to get eyes on their product - short sales pitch before a sommelier goes through the wine tasting with participants trying the free wines sent to our homes for this purpose. I sort of liked a couple of the wines, but after 2 of these, I stopped signing up because everyone sends their typical very dry, tannic reds and dry whites. Just not my thing.)

Far cheaper for me to buy the empty bottles. Last fall, I saw a sale for 24 - 375 ml splits for $15 each. Even with the shipping, it was an awesome price.

Right now I have 9 gallons of dessert wine from kits that I want to bottle in the splits soon. That's 90ish bottles.

My manager told me she bought 2 of the Costco advent calendars, and she saves the bottles for me. I fill some of them up with more wine and give them back to her. It all works out!


----------



## winemaker81 (Jan 22, 2022)

Mike53154 said:


> Here's an idea  For wine bottles I've been buying on average 1 bottle of Aldies Winking Owl brand of wine a week for around $3 each.


A few years back I purchased Winking Owl for cooking, and was totally surprised that it's drinkable, e.g., open a bottle, half goes in the food, half goes in me. Their Sauvignon Blanc comes in clear Bordeaux bottles (I use for white wines), the Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon in green Bordeaux, and the Chardonnay is in Chardonnay bottles (not sure if there's another name for these).



Jovimaple said:


> But I don't care for dry wines, and so I would be wasting money for a bunch of wine I know already I am not going to like.


This is tough for sweet wine drinkers, as such tastings are geared towards dry. If you get to the southeast USA, try the wineries. In eastern NC, they try to cater to everyone -- the local grapes are Muscadine, Scuppernong, and hybrids from the Florida research station (can't remember name), and these need backsweetening. The taste if different from Vinifera, but you may like it. These wineries often get Vinifera from the western part of the state, so they offer the full range from dry whites & reds to sweet.

I try the wineries from time-to-time, as one of these days someone may surprise me with a native wine that I like. If I don't try it, I'll never know. Their dry whites and reds are typically decent, and besides, it's fun!


----------



## sour_grapes (Jan 22, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> the Chardonnay is in Chardonnay bottles (not sure if there's another name for these).



They can be called "Burgundy bottles."


----------



## winemaker81 (Jan 22, 2022)

sour_grapes said:


> They can be called "Burgundy bottles."


In my defense, I only had 1 cup of coffee in me when I posted .......


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## oppyland (Jan 22, 2022)

hounddawg said:


> Farrier was a lady, first i have ever met, but she knew what she was doing, and climbed in to my jack as good as any man,,, Farriers are hard to find, good ones that is, she treated my jack very well indeed


Our farrier is also female. She's a former 4H/FFA kid who was in the horse project with my youngest. She does a great job.


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## Mike53154 (Jan 22, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> But I don't care for dry wines, and so I would be wasting money for a bunch of wine I know already I am not going to like



Winking Owl has a Sweet Red that's obviously sweet. And a Cabernet Sauvignon that's semi-sweet


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## Jovimaple (Jan 22, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> A few years back I purchased Winking Owl for cooking, and was totally surprised that it's drinkable, e.g., open a bottle, half goes in the food, half goes in me. Their Sauvignon Blanc comes in clear Bordeaux bottles (I use for white wines), the Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon in green Bordeaux, and the Chardonnay is in Chardonnay bottles (not sure if there's another name for these).
> 
> 
> This is tough for sweet wine drinkers, as such tastings are geared towards dry. If you get to the southeast USA, try the wineries. In eastern NC, they try to cater to everyone -- the local grapes are Muscadine, Scuppernong, and hybrids from the Florida research station (can't remember name), and these need backsweetening. The taste if different from Vinifera, but you may like it. These wineries often get Vinifera from the western part of the state, so they offer the full range from dry whites & reds to sweet.
> ...


I have a go-to winery in Iowa owned by cousins of one of my best friends (and now I am friends with the cousins, too!). They make a lot of fruit wines but also some wines from their own grapes and they have mead available sometimes, as well.

Before I went there, I wasn't that interested in wine because most of what people buy and serve is dry and often very tannic. I do like a wider range of sweetness than my husband - the more it tastes like koolaid, the happier he is. 

We do want to explore more of the local wineries here in the upper midwest. We are planning a trip to FL to visit some relatives and catch a few preseason baseball games - maybe next spring. Adding some winery visits to the list of things to do while we are there is a great idea!


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## winemaker81 (Jan 22, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> We do want to explore more of the local wineries here in the upper midwest. We are planning a trip to FL to visit some relatives and catch a few preseason baseball games - maybe next spring. Adding some winery visits to the list of things to do while we are there is a great idea!


It never occurred to me that Florida has wineries, but that's silly, right? They have a grape research center in Gainesville that apparently is influential.





__





Grape - University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences - UF/IFAS







hos.ifas.ufl.edu





I have family in the St. Augustine area, but we've never visited wineries while there. That may change ...





__





Try Florida Wines


Lakeridge Winery offers complimentary tours and wine tasting seven days a week. Discover the art of winemaking via audiovisual presentation, a guided tour and wine tasting. Purchase your favorite award winning Lakeridge wine and gourmet food items in large retail area and gift shop. Ample free...




tryfloridawine.com


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## oppyland (Jan 22, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> It never occurred to me that Florida has wineries, but that's silly, right? They have a grape research center in Gainesville that apparently is influential.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


San Sebastian Winery is in St Augustine. They make some nice wines!

Also, my youngest did an internship at UF in Gainesville. It's one of the finest agricultural studies universities in the nation!


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## Jovimaple (Jan 22, 2022)

My friend whose cousins own the Iowa winery also has friends in FL and got introduced to some of the citrus wines made there. She saves bottles for me, and to bring this thread back around to bottles and delabeling, I love those bottles because the labels just peel right off with little residue after I soak the bottles in hot water.


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## hounddawg (Jan 22, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> My friend whose cousins own the Iowa winery also has friends in FL and got introduced to some of the citrus wines made there. She saves bottles for me, and to bring this thread back around to bottles and delabeling, I love those bottles because the labels just peel right off with little residue after I soak the bottles in hot water.


we seem to walk a straight thread as a drunk on the white line, lol
Dawg


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## Obbnw (Jan 22, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> I love the 375 ml splits that come with Costco's advent calendar. I considered buying it just for the bottles.
> 
> But I don't care for dry wines, and so I would be wasting money for a bunch of wine I know already I am not going to like. (This summer, I participated in several virtual wine tastings - some vendors in my field (IT Security) set them up as a way to get eyes on their product - short sales pitch before a sommelier goes through the wine tasting with participants trying the free wines sent to our homes for this purpose. I sort of liked a couple of the wines, but after 2 of these, I stopped signing up because everyone sends their typical very dry, tannic reds and dry whites. Just not my thing.)
> 
> ...


I bought the same 375ml bottle deal last fall too.

Most of my wine is aging in 3 gallon carboys. My plan is to bottle a case (24) of 375 and 3 750's per carboy them drink the bottles before I bottle the next carboy.

I figure it's better off aging in the carboy then the bottle, plus the 375's help me limit my drinking. It was just too easy to have an extra glass when the 750 ml bottle was just sitting there half full. It's much easier to stop if having another glass means going to the basement and opening another bottle.

Not sure what I'll do come next fall, bottle in 750's I have saved or buy more carboys for next year's run.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 22, 2022)

Obbnw said:


> It was just too easy to have an extra glass when the 750 ml bottle was just sitting there half full. It's much easier to stop if having another glass means going to the basement and opening another bottle.


This is very true.

I keep a 375 screw cap bottle handy -- open a 750, fill the 375, and put it in the cupboard. Sometimes I have to be very forceful with myself to keep me away from the cupboard.


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## NorCal (Jan 23, 2022)

Tonight’s news.


----------



## mainshipfred (Jan 25, 2022)

Anyone willing to drive to Hydes, MD, this winery has bottles for $8.50/case.







by *Phineas M Deford*
Published: January 20, 2022 (5 days ago)
$8.50
Category
4. Equipment for Sale
Location
HYDES, MD
Boordy Vineyards (MD) has the following glass available for sale, in plain white cartons:

665 cases “Prospero”
• Color: Flint
• Style: Bordeaux – cork closure
• Size: 750ml
• Height: 323mm
• Weight: 500g

60 cases “Caprice”
• Color: Antique Green
• Style: Bordeaux – cork closure
• Size: 750ml
• Height: 312mm
• Weight: 550g
Price is $8.50/case
Email [email protected] for additional information or to request spec sheets
Delivery possible for an additional fee
Show Contact Information


----------



## ChuckD (Jan 25, 2022)

NorCal said:


> Tonight’s news.
> View attachment 83706


Now that’s news that really matters!!


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## CDrew (Apr 25, 2022)

The bottle shortage is real, but recently I've detected some improvement. Since last fall, there have been basically none available at a reasonable price. Then a month or so ago, there started to be all you wanted at $25 per case. Then last week I saw $16 per case and today, I bought 20 cases at $12 per case. (NAPA Fermentation supplies) Mind you these same bottles last year were $6 per case. But at least I can complete bottling the 2020. Hopefully by next fall when it's time to bottle the 2021, prices will be back down to more usual levels.

And for all you that peel labels-you have more patience than I do. I hate it and only do it in an emergency. But I tell all the people I give wine to, that if it comes from me with no label, I want the bottle back. It mostly works.


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## Jovimaple (Apr 25, 2022)

CDrew said:


> And for all you that peel labels-you have more patience than I do. I hate it and only do it in an emergency. But I tell all the people I give wine to, that if it comes from me with no label, I want the bottle back. It mostly works.


I finally, just this weekend, finished washing/delabeling the last of the 20 or so cases of bottles I got last year from someone in my town who posted on Craig's List. It's good to finally have them delabelled and clean and put away for future use! I have also stocked up on new bottles and told people I want only my own bottles back, since my labels soak off easily.


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (Apr 26, 2022)

Home Brew Ohio blew through 200 cases of green bottles in a week at $16.99 a case so I don't think things are getting much better. There are not a lot of bottles out there, especially if you want punted ones.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 26, 2022)

I'm picking up 3-4 cases of empties every month or 2 from a local winery, discards from the tasting room. For those willing to put in the elbow grease of cleaning bottles, it's a win. I'm well set for everything I have in production. It's also nice having consistent bottles, as they use puntless Bordeaux bottles in several shades of green and blue. While I prefer punted bottles, the price is certainly right!


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## Jusatele (May 1, 2022)

Never thought of that. I have a lot of wine tasting rooms around me here in Portland. That would really help the pocket.


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## Rocky (May 1, 2022)

Whether a wine bottle is punted makes no difference to me and I would not pay a penny more for bottles that are punted. I can buy a case of 12 un-punted Bordeaux bottles locally for $13.50 (less 10% military discount) and that is fine for me. The punt in still wine bottles was there to keep the bottles more stable on a surface due to the limitations of glass blowing years ago and to avoid damaging bar and table surfaces with the parting flash. Bottle making using machinery does not have this limitation and to me the punt is really superfluous.


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## winemaker81 (May 1, 2022)

Rocky said:


> The punt in still wine bottles was there to keep the bottles more stable on a surface due to the limitations of glass blowing years ago and to avoid damaging bar and table surfaces with the parting flash.


There is a FAR more important reason to use puntless bottles: when using a filler tube, they are much easier to fill! My old tube has a short pin and if there is much punt, I have to balance on the top of the punt. It's a real PITA.

My bias for punts probably stems from better wines traditionally being in punted bottles. OTOH, puntless bottles tend to be shorter and fit in all my cases, for ease of storage. I have some extra tall bottles I use first as they are fine when lying in a rack, but I have to have special cases to hold the empties.


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## jswordy (May 1, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> There is a FAR more important reason to use puntless bottles: when using a filler tube, they are much easier to fill! My old tube has a short pin and if there is much punt, I have to balance on the top of the punt. It's a real PITA.
> 
> My bias for punts probably stems from better wines traditionally being in punted bottles. OTOH, puntless bottles tend to be shorter and fit in all my cases, for ease of storage. I have some extra tall bottles I use first as they are fine when lying in a rack, but I have to have special cases to hold the empties.



Absolutely, on the filler tube! Punts are basically a PITA with tubes. IMO, punts are largely used now to enable the bottle to be shaped differently (longer chamber or wider at the top than bottom, etc.) and still come up with 750 ml. Beyond that, I don't see a practical reason for them.


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## jswordy (May 1, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I'm picking up 3-4 cases of empties every month or 2 from a local winery, discards from the tasting room. For those willing to put in the elbow grease of cleaning bottles, it's a win. I'm well set for everything I have in production. It's also nice having consistent bottles, as they use puntless Bordeaux bottles in several shades of green and blue. While I prefer punted bottles, the price is certainly right!



That's great for you! I lucked out and was able to raid the recycling center here for about a year before they stopped taking glass, so I probably have a lifetime supply. In my state, bottles are required to be smashed by bars, etc. after they are emptied, supposedly to keep counterfeit booze from refilling them. I did buy a few cases used from a winery once, for $5 a case, but nobody here is giving them away when they are legally required to smash them. So even hobby winemakers who have used bottles will sell them to others.

I have recruited friends to save them and trained friends to return them. Every time one is emptied, I rinse it out, and have pretty much trained friends to do that, too. I use paper labels affixed with a mixture of milk and Elmer's Glue, a method I learned from a WMT poster here years ago, so when I want to remove them they get wetted and come right off. The only hard work is getting the original labels off.


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## Sailor323 (May 1, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I'm picking up 3-4 cases of empties every month or 2 from a local winery, discards from the tasting room. For those willing to put in the elbow grease of cleaning bottles, it's a win. I'm well set for everything I have in production. It's also nice having consistent bottles, as they use puntless Bordeaux bottles in several shades of green and blue. While I prefer punted bottles, the price is certainly right!


I used to produce goat cheese and sold the bulk of it to restaurants. They save wine bottles for me. I'm sure any of us could get a restaurant or 2 to save bottles.


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## jswordy (May 2, 2022)

Sailor323 said:


> I used to produce goat cheese and sold the bulk of it to restaurants. They save wine bottles for me. I'm sure any of us could get a restaurant or 2 to save bottles.



Not here, that is an illegal practice that will get your license pulled. Believe me, I have tried. A lot.


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## winemaker81 (May 2, 2022)

jswordy said:


> Not here, that is an illegal practice that will get your license pulled. Believe me, I have tried. A lot.


You've probably noticed that politicians, regardless of stripe, are idiots ....


----------



## jswordy (May 2, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> You've probably noticed that politicians, regardless of stripe, are idiots ....



Yes, but I also can see how a bar owner might be tempted to refill Grey Goose bottles and Pappy Van Winkle, etc., with cheaper swill. It does pose problems for we homemade winos though.  This is a common state law across the Southeast.


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## Sailor323 (May 4, 2022)

Interesting concept: The Latest Alternative to the Glass Wine Bottle | NUVO (nuvomagazine.com)


----------



## BigDaveK (May 4, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> You've probably noticed that politicians, regardless of stripe, are idiots ....


Wow, you have a MUCH higher opinion of them than I do.


----------



## vinny (May 4, 2022)

jswordy said:


> Yes, but I also can see how a bar owner might be tempted to refill Grey Goose bottles and Pappy Van Winkle, etc., with cheaper swill. It does pose problems for we homemade winos though.  This is a common state law across the Southeast.


If they are greasy enough to pass off swill for premium, they are likely shady enough to ignore a bottle smashing law... Just sayin.


----------



## G259 (May 4, 2022)

Someone mentioned 'University of Florida' (UF) earlier, but I can't find it now to quote it.

Good thing they didn't name it 'Florida University', lol!


----------



## FlamingoEmporium (May 4, 2022)

This ?



> winemaker81 said:
> It never occurred to me that Florida has wineries, but that's silly, right? They have a grape research center in Gainesville that apparently is influential.
> 
> *Grape - University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences - UF/IFAS*
> ...


San Sebastian Winery is in St Augustine. They make some nice wines!

Also, my youngest did an internship at UF in Gainesville. It's one of the finest agricultural studies universities in the nation


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (May 4, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> This ?
> 
> 
> San Sebastian Winery is in St Augustine. They make some nice wines!
> ...


Fabulous school, believe that is where the Blanc DuBois came from.

I'll pass on the San Sebastian... Beautiful winery, I just can't get into those Muskadine wines. I love them as fresh fruit, I have 7 varieties here but no more than 2 vines of each and really enjoy them cold. But that's it.


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## G259 (May 5, 2022)

Label Peelers has them for sale, I don't know the price point , but . . .


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## Rocky (May 5, 2022)

G259 said:


> Label Peelers has them for sale, I don't know the price point , but . . .


The price is $10.61 per case for either Clear or Green Bourdeaux bottles. Great price!


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## winemaker81 (May 5, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Wow, you have a MUCH higher opinion of them than I do.


Probably not, I was just being polite on a public forum, where we try keep things rated G, or at least PG-13 ....


----------



## jswordy (May 5, 2022)

vinny said:


> If they are greasy enough to pass off swill for premium, they are likely shady enough to ignore a bottle smashing law... Just sayin.



Well, as I already posted, they don't ignore it. It means losing the liquor license. I would not ignore it if it were my business, either.


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## jswordy (May 5, 2022)

Fox Squirrel Vin said:


> Fabulous school, believe that is where the Blanc DuBois came from.
> 
> I'll pass on the San Sebastian... Beautiful winery, I just can't get into those Muskadine wines. I love them as fresh fruit, I have 7 varieties here but no more than 2 vines of each and really enjoy them cold. But that's it.



That's because you have never had GOOD muscadine wine. It has to be made a certain way to be tasty. My 2013 Los Angeles Cellarmasters silver medals, back when I was sending wines to contests. On the right is a blueberry.




Some of the 2013-14 haul.


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## winemaker81 (May 5, 2022)

jswordy said:


> That's because you have never had GOOD muscadine wine.


I've had a fair number of V. Rotundifolia (Muscadine & Scuppernong) from local wineries, many of them medal winners. Ranging from off-dry to sweet, most were at least good quality. But -- it's not my taste. I like Vinifera and French-American hybrids, and some Labrusca. Different strokes for different folks.


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## jswordy (May 5, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I've had a fair number of V. Rotundifolia (Muscadine & Scuppernong) from local wineries, many of them medal winners. Ranging from off-dry to sweet, most were at least good quality. But -- it's not my taste. I like Vinifera and French-American hybrids, and some Labrusca. Different strokes for different folks.



I like all wines but I particularly like to support wineries that make GOOD wine from truly American wine grapes. Like all wines, it is very easy to make a bad muscadine or scuppernong wine, since you must do it right to avoid unfavorable flavors. Vastly more people have had bad ones than good ones. It was a particular delight for me to take the Cellarmasters silver medal with a muscadine wine in an area of the country that is ga-ga over viniferas.


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## jswordy (May 5, 2022)

jswordy said:


> I like all wines but I particularly like to support wineries that make GOOD wine from truly American wine grapes. Like all wines, it is very easy to make a bad muscadine or scuppernong wine, since you must do it right to avoid unfavorable flavors. Vastly more people have had bad ones than good ones. It was a particular delight for me to take the Cellarmasters silver medal with a muscadine wine in an area of the country that is ga-ga over viniferas.



LOL, I might add that my non-wine snob friends eschew dry vinifera wines I uncork in favor of my muscadines. Nearly every time. Like you said, different strokes.


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (May 6, 2022)

jswordy said:


> That's because you have never had GOOD muscadine wine. It has to be made a certain way to be tasty. My 2013 Los Angeles Cellarmasters silver medals, back when I was sending wines to contests. On the right is a blueberry.
> 
> View attachment 87904
> 
> ...


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (May 6, 2022)

jswordy said:


> LOL, I might add that my non-wine snob friends eschew dry vinifera wines I uncork in favor of my muscadines. Nearly every time. Like you said, different strokes.


I have friends like that too, they get the stuff served in mason jars made out of the cracked corn I got on sale from Tractor Supply.


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## oppyland (May 11, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> San Sebastian Winery is in St Augustine. They make some nice wines!


I like their Rose.


> Also, my youngest did an internship at UF in Gainesville. It's one of the finest agricultural studies universities in the nation


So did mine - they're also one of the top veterinary schools in the nation!


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## NorCal (Jun 15, 2022)

While I was able to find the bottles I need to get through this season, I got this today, proclaiming that the *"Bottle Shortages are Worse than Ever!"*


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## dcbrown73 (Jun 21, 2022)

$26 for a case! Ouch! I was paying about $15 a case with no shipping since I picked up locally. I haven't been making wine (last bottled in 2018) I was running out of space to store it!

I've either drank or gifted it most of it over the last couple of years, so it's about time to crank up production again. I don't like using used commercial bottles, because I *nice* my bottles up with labels and matching capsules since I gift wine quite often.

That said, I just took a look at Label Peelers (a place I used to shop) They have 4 cases of clear Bordeaux style bottles for $40! I might have to snag that since I intend to make some fruit wines along with some grape wines. The green Bordeaux bottles are $14 a case and Burgundy bottles are about (ugh) $23.

I will check with my local suppliers.


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## mainshipfred (Jun 21, 2022)

I was able to get 20 cases of clear Bordeaux bottles for my white and fruit wines at $11.00 as case. Fortunately I still have about 30 cases of AG Bordeaux for my 65+ gallons of 2020 reds. I'll need more next year though


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## mikewatkins727 (Jun 22, 2022)

In all my posts about obtaining free wine bottles I've overlooked one that I have used with success. Talked to those who set up the communion cups at church, ask them about the empty bottles and what they do with them.


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## Rojoguio (Jun 24, 2022)

Well I had a rude awakening concerning using used bottles. I have a never ending supply of bottles mostly Pino Noir but after bottling the Meyer Lemon wine found out the tops of the bottles are different sizes. The bottle seals I bought to dress up the bottle tops only fit on 3 out of 9 bottles because 6 had 32mm instead of 30mm tops. Bummer, I ordered some new seals that will fit but they won't be yellow, the color I wanted. I've been boiling and removing labels for over a week and now I have to separate by bottle top diameters besides shape and color.


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## heatherd (Jun 25, 2022)

I got two cases of clear Bordeaux bottles at Label Peelers.


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## Sailor323 (Jun 26, 2022)

4 cases clear Bordeaux $39 at Label Peelers


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## RichB1 (Jun 26, 2022)

$55 shipping!


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## mikewatkins727 (Jun 26, 2022)

Rojoguio said:


> Well I had a rude awakening concerning using used bottles. I have a never ending supply of bottles mostly Pino Noir but after bottling the Meyer Lemon wine found out the tops of the bottles are different sizes. The bottle seals I bought to dress up the bottle tops only fit on 3 out of 9 bottles because 6 had 32mm instead of 30mm tops. Bummer, I ordered some new seals that will fit but they won't be yellow, the color I wanted. I've been boiling and removing labels for over a week and now I have to separate by bottle top diameters besides shape and color.


Are these screw cap or cork bottles?


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## BigDaveK (Jun 26, 2022)

Rojoguio said:


> Well I had a rude awakening concerning using used bottles. I have a never ending supply of bottles mostly Pino Noir but after bottling the Meyer Lemon wine found out the tops of the bottles are different sizes. The bottle seals I bought to dress up the bottle tops only fit on 3 out of 9 bottles because 6 had 32mm instead of 30mm tops. Bummer, I ordered some new seals that will fit but they won't be yellow, the color I wanted. I've been boiling and removing labels for over a week and now I have to separate by bottle top diameters besides shape and color.


Were they from sparkling wines? Beefier bottle?
Similar experience. Had some bottles saved from years ago, beautiful pattern in the glass, excited about using them. Regular cap looked like a chef's hat on top of the bottle.


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## Rojoguio (Jun 26, 2022)

All cork bottles, I can only think as they are $50 a bottle and up for the most part that a finer bottle is used. Half a case of empty thick neck 32mm bottles fell to the floor and not a one broke. A lot are just drinking wine bottles, they are all 30mm.


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## NorCal (Aug 25, 2022)

Wait, there’s more!


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## mikewatkins727 (Aug 25, 2022)

This your cellar, @NorCal ?


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## NorCal (Aug 26, 2022)

mikewatkins727 said:


> This your cellar, @NorCal ?


Local news.


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## mikewatkins727 (Aug 26, 2022)

KCRA?


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## DavesWine (Aug 26, 2022)

If you're willing to put in a little manual labor there might be a way to get all the bottles you need for free.
I got to know the people at a local Italian restaurant and they were more than willing to give me the empty wine bottles they had. They go through a lot of wine, more on the weekend which is when I visited them at the end of day each week. All the bottles won't be the same but they tend to go through certain ones fairly regularly which does make for some consistency. I've found the quality of the bottles to be far better than what I would be willing to pay for.
Besides the travel to get them you do have to go through the work of washing and removing the labels, but since they are emptied that same day washing isn't difficult.
Doing this for the past few months I've managed to stock up on over 200 bottles.


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## Jusatele (Aug 27, 2022)

my cellar is a few cases of bottles
i could only imagine room for 30 barrels


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## winemaker81 (Aug 27, 2022)

Jusatele said:


> my cellar is a few cases of bottles
> i could only imagine room for 30 barrels


"Barrel envy", something non-winemakers have no clue about. 

All jokes aside, storage is a very serious question that all too many winemakers don't think through before doing. After purchasing my first barrel (used, it's neutral) I discussed the situation with a non-winemaker friend. The folks I purchased the first barrel from had a second 54 liter barrel, and I was debating on buying it. His reaction was, "Just buy it, it's not that much money." He was right, the purchase price was not a problem in any way.

I had room for one barrel, but not a second. I solved this by constructing a barrel rack out of 2x4's so they are stacked -- taking up the same floor space. The solution works fine, but once the barrels are full this structure ain't moving. I dropped the inside of a 3 piece airlock behind the rack -- I won't get it back until I rack the barrels this fall. [I have a LOT of airlocks, so it's not a problem, but it illustrates a point.]

He also didn't consider that in purchasing the second barrel, I committed to making 6+ mores cases of wine each year, which requires creating a second batch of at least 16 US gallons to keep that barrel full. When done, I have to store that wine.

The moral of this story is: think things all the way through before increasing production.


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## Jusatele (Aug 28, 2022)

Winemaker, I get the moral.
I have to balance between space for home brew, and space for store bought. Space is a premium, if I up production, well store bought goes out the window, and we have some great Pinot Noir up here in the Pacific Northwest. Infact I just got a new Spiedel as I negotiated for a few square feet in the pantry. Yep, wives can be quite generous when you take them jewelery, got me some new fishing reels also.
I think that what she did not see coming is room for more storage means a up in production. It seems to be a viscous cycle. And new fermenter means I need a new carboy and a ............


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