# Tips for making better wine - suggestions??



## three_jeeps (Jan 20, 2015)

The general question first: what are a couple of improvements in my process that could make the wine better?
Background:
Been making wine from grapes for the last 15 years, on an off. Over the last 5-6 years have been doing it yearly. My goal is to produce red wine on par with the California wines that retail in the$15-$20/bottle range. My varietals of choice are Cabs and Merlots. I am falling short of that goal and am seeking some insight from people that have achieved that, or have come close. 
Problems:
My wines, while drinkable, seem to be ‘thin’ (lacking some body), lack a little color depth, and taste ‘home made’…lack the smoothness for lack of a better word. On the positive side, the wines are clear and have a reasonable bouquet. Below are the steps I follow – I am looking for some suggestions that would have the biggest positive impact on my results.
Process:
Get Cab, Melot, and Carignane grapes ordered from California (Pia brand) - I have tried batches of 100% Melot, Cab, and 50/50 of Melot/Carignane and Cab/Carignane over the years. 

Grapes are inspected for mold, raisins. Only the good grapes are washed well in tubs and then drained.
Grapes then go into crusher & destemer. Any remaining stems are hand removed.

Juice is then checked for BRIX and acidity. Historically, the natural BRIX content yields 11-12% alcohol without adding any sugar…I’ve never added any sugar. Total acidity is checked by titration and usually falls in the range of 55-65%. On few occasions if the reading was extreme end, I’d correct to try to hit 60% TA. I’ve used ‘Acid Blend’ for correction.

Pitch the yeast (Lalvin RC212) and fermentation follows normal cycle, with fermentation complete in 5-6 days with hydrometer reading between 0.985 and 1.0. Fermentation is done in my garage and ranges in temps from 55-58 during the night to 65-70 during the day. Temp of must gets warm with fermentation – haven’t monitored it. Cap is pressed down and must is aerated (stired) a couple of times a day (morning, evening).

For convenience reasons, the pressing always occurs 7 days after the crushing, e.g. Sat to Sat or Sunday to Sunday. (as an aside, I make 2nd wine but those results are not considered here)

The juice from the pressing is stored in 5 gal glass carboys, filled to top, and fitted with airlock, stored in basement where temp is a fairly constant 65 -68 degrees F, for approximately 13-15 weeks. The wine is then racked into another carboy and sits in same basement for approximately 15 weeks during which I option to add American oak, French oak, or no oak chips - leaving them in for 4-6 weeks, depending on sampling for flavor.
After the 15 week sitting, I either rack into bottles and cork, or I’ve racked into another carboy, let it sit for 2-3 months, then bottle.

All of my equipment is scrubbed & cleaned with Bbrite, and rinsed with a sanitizer (StarSan ). I am anal about cleanliness. Because my spouse is sensitive to sulfites, I don’t use Sodium Metabisulfite or Potassium Metabisulfite duringor after the process. 
So, anyone see any areas for improvement? E.g. the silver bullet? 
thanks!

John


----------



## JohnT (Jan 20, 2015)

I can make 3 suggestions...


1 – do not wash your grapes. This just adds water to the resulting juice and thins out the sugar and acid levels. No doubt 1 reason that your wine is thin.
2 – add an additional racking at 1-2 weeks past your putting the juice into carboys.
3 – go with larger size oak (cubes or beans).


----------



## cmason1957 (Jan 20, 2015)

You may also want to consider a different yeast. I have nothing against RC212, but there may be better choices. MLF is done to almost all commercial red wines. I also try to get my reds up to about 80 or higher at some point during fermentation.


----------



## LeChat (Jan 21, 2015)

A few more suggestions:

Use Tartaric acid instead of acid blend if you need to adjust acidity. Lower PH is better if you add no sulfites. 
Put your reds through Malo Lactic Fermentation (MLF). I found that doing this really improved the body & mouthfeel as well as reduced the "sour" acidity and replaced it with a "smooth" acidity. Since you don't use sulfites, MLF should be easy. Also bonus is improved microbial stability (very important because of no sulfites).
Oak barrels? Practically all commercial reds go through barrels (1+ year). This improves color, body and taste.
Playing with the fermentation temperature can yield different results in terms of color and phenol extraction. 
You could add some fermentation tannin and cellaring tannin to improve body and mouthfeel and also the finish of the wine in the case of cellaring tannin.
For color, you could look into adding opti-red to the fermentation to extract more color.
Chaptalization (adding sugar to the must) to ABV potential of 12.5-13.5% may help the wine survive longer without sulfites. 

I feel that by not using sulfites, you may run into some problems with reaching a mature wine. Wine takes time to develop fully. Sometimes, wine that tasted like crap at 1 year will taste marvelous at 2 or 3 years because of the aging process. Without sulfites, I doubt your wine would survive that long without spoilage.


----------



## JohnT (Jan 21, 2015)

Also, I see no mention of using yeast nutrient. If so, you will be prone to H2S (rotten egg smell) issues (especially when using RC 212) or stalled fermentations. 

I do like your choice of yeast. RC 212 brings wonderful flavor to the party (IMHO), but it does like to get fed.


----------



## LittleBearGameFarm (Jan 21, 2015)

Good posts guys!


----------



## three_jeeps (Jan 21, 2015)

cmason1957 said:


> You may also want to consider a different yeast. I have nothing against RC212, but there may be better choices. MLF is done to almost all commercial red wines. I also try to get my reds up to about 80 or higher at some point during fermentation.



Ok, I'll show my lack of knowledge...what kind/brand may be a better choice and why?? I been all over the mfg website and don't see anything that would make it a bad choice. 
What do you mean you try to get your reds up to 80%??? 80% of what? TA?


----------



## JohnT (Jan 21, 2015)

three_jeeps said:


> Ok, I'll show my lack of knowledge...what kind/brand may be a better choice and why?? I been all over the mfg website and don't see anything that would make it a bad choice.
> What do you mean you try to get your reds up to 80%??? 80% of what? TA?


 

Lalvin RC 212 is my yeast of choice for all of my reds. If you use nutrient, the benefits/flavor profiles are just wonderful!. 

I think he was meaning 80 degrees (temperature).


----------



## NorCal (Jan 21, 2015)

Do the grapes come with SO2 already applied? From ferment to bottle in 28-47 weeks. In my first batch, the wine started tasting really nice at 70 weeks after ferment was completed.


----------



## three_jeeps (Jan 21, 2015)

LeChat said:


> A few more suggestions:
> 
> Use Tartaric acid instead of acid blend if you need to adjust acidity. Lower PH is better if you add no sulfites.


I have this on my list to do...after reading more about acid blends versus specific acids...Also, I hate the visual titration method...am considering getting and using a PH meter



> Put your reds through Malo Lactic Fermentation (MLF). I found that doing this really improved the body & mouthfeel as well as reduced the "sour" acidity and replaced it with a "smooth" acidity. Since you don't use sulfites, MLF should be easy. Also bonus is improved microbial stability (very important because of no sulfites).


I've shied away from this because, from what I read, the potential for ruining the wine outweighed the risk of improving it. But what the heck, I don't like the outcome now, so, maybe a time to try...Is this writeup good to follow as a How-to or do you have other recommendations?
http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-malolactic-fermentation



> Oak barrels? Practically all commercial reds go through barrels (1+ year). This improves color, body and taste.


I initially did this when I made a large batch (50gallons) but it was way too much work and way too much wine to consume in a reasonable amount of time. Plus, when a batch 'went bad'...it was an expensive goof....but I may try the cubes as opposed to the chips


> Playing with the fermentation temperature can yield different results in terms of color and phenol extraction.


So are you suggesting ferment at a higher, constant temp?


> You could add some fermentation tannin and cellaring tannin to improve body and mouthfeel and also the finish of the wine in the case of cellaring tannin.
> For color, you could look into adding opti-red to the fermentation to extract more color.
> Chaptalization (adding sugar to the must) to ABV potential of 12.5-13.5% may help the wine survive longer without sulfites.
> 
> I feel that by not using sulfites, you may run into some problems with reaching a mature wine. Wine takes time to develop fully. Sometimes, wine that tasted like crap at 1 year will taste marvelous at 2 or 3 years because of the aging process. Without sulfites, I doubt your wine would survive that long without spoilage.


I'll look into these...I haven't run into spoilage issues...I usually age for about a year before opening the first bottle.....have gone as much as 3 years and had no spoilage.
SO, if I put the wine through MLF, when would be a good time to add SMB or PMB and how much?

I very much appreciate all the suggestions!
J


----------



## WellingtonToad (Jan 21, 2015)

Ok, I think I might be missing something here.
I go by the saying, "You can make bad wine from good grapes, but you can't make good wine from bad grapes."
Check your alcohol levels. 11 - 12 % that is low. Compare that to what you are trying to emulate. My guess is they will be 13% or higher. I might be wrong and you guys might just like low alcohol wine.
As the grapes ripen, they develop more enjoyable flavours. The extra alcohol helps too.
At the 11-12% level I would expect you get some green (bitter/ sour) flavours in the wine, again not enjoyable.
The alcohol level can be improved by Chaptalization, but the grapes will still be short on flavour.

In short, get better grapes.


----------



## cintipam (Jan 21, 2015)

Hi all

So long ago that I cannot attribute the source I lifted a very important warning from WMT. Thought it would be useful here.

*NOTE: Do not use citric acid or acid blend if you are planning a malolactic fermentation. Malolactic must be inhibited as it converts citric acid, if available, into acetic acid during this fermentation

Another words MLF would not help this wine, just speed up the turning to vinegar process. I pay close attention since I combine a lot of homegrown fruit into my wines, and also want to try MLF someday. Luckily a couple of my fruits have no citric so I will start with some of those.

Pam in cinti


----------



## three_jeeps (Jan 21, 2015)

WellingtonToad said:


> Ok, I think I might be missing something here.
> I go by the saying, "You can make bad wine from good grapes, but you can't make good wine from bad grapes."
> Check your alcohol levels. 11 - 12 % that is low. Compare that to what you are trying to emulate. My guess is they will be 13% or higher. I might be wrong and you guys might just like low alcohol wine.
> 
> snip



The 11-12% is final alcohol concentration based on the initial hydrometer reading (which I don't remember off the top of my head - I just remember the end result after the juice is converted)
So, are you saying 12% is too low for a final alcohol level? In my neck of the woods 12% at the local wine stores is about average.
I would not be adversed to bumping up the final alcohol a few percent 
Thanks for the feedback.
J


----------



## three_jeeps (Jan 21, 2015)

cintipam said:


> Hi all
> 
> snip
> *NOTE: Do not use citric acid or acid blend if you are planning a malolactic fermentation. Malolactic must be inhibited as it converts citric acid, if available, into acetic acid during this fermentation
> ...



OK, I am missing the point. I have only corrected for TA once, using acid blend. I understand that MLF would convert what exists in the wine into acetic acid, but for most of the batches I made, I believe this would be a non-factor? 
Now if I did add acid blend, then yes, I can see how it would have an effect in speeding up the conversion (even enhance it) to acetic acid. However, doesn't it depend on when MLF is initiated? According to a set of slides from UCDavis (and in agreement with other texts I have), it is generally best to initiate MLF after fermentation is completed. At that point, any acid correction done prior to fermentation (in my process it was done immediately after pressing), the TA is less of a factor in causing MLF to produce vinegar....true?
Am beginning to feel that I need to dust off my college chem books...that gives me more of a headache than wine..lol


----------



## cmason1957 (Jan 21, 2015)

three_jeeps said:


> Ok, I'll show my lack of knowledge...what kind/brand may be a better choice and why?? I been all over the mfg website and don't see anything that would make it a bad choice.
> What do you mean you try to get your reds up to 80%??? 80% of what? TA?



RC212 is probably what I would use as well, but I am fairly certain it is not the yeast of choice that the professionals would use. I would ask the wine maker's from where you are getting the grapes, maybe. One I have used is brunello yeast, at least that is what my memory says the name is. 

The 80 I was referring to is get your temperature up a bit higher. I believe the more winemaking red guide days get the temp up to 80.


----------



## WellingtonToad (Jan 22, 2015)

Thanks for putting me in my place. I am an Aussie an my thoughts and conditions are different. (relative to you I do everything upside down  )

I target 13.5 for alcohol content. See we are different. If I had a choice of an 11% Cab or a 15% Cab it would always be the 15% Cab. The alcohol warms and adds to the overall experience.
Winemaking is about balance. That includes Alcohol content.

Back to the grapes. Veraison is what is required. The point that the grapes have reached the maximum ripeness before turning to raisins.
In Aust., that tends to be about 13.5% alcohol. The test is taste the juice, it should be sweet full of sugar. Take the pip and look at it, it should have turned from green to brown. 
Take some juice and check the SG of the juice. You are looking around 1.098.
From my point of view higher is better.

As for yeasts and temps, I use a specific yeast targeted for the wine I am making, but I can only dream of getting ferment temps as low as you guys. 
The grass always looks greener from the other side of the fence.

One thing you could try short term. You said you make Cab and Merlot. Those two are made for each other. As little as 5% Merlot in a Cab will have a profound difference. Of course it is a matter of taste and you can go to 50% easily. Its totally up to you.

Good Luck, and good winemaking


----------



## berrycrush (Jan 23, 2015)

Have you also tried different grape sources and noticed the difference?


----------

