# Adding Lime



## marttt (Feb 3, 2010)

I made a batch of RJ's Honey Blonde Ale. I have it carbonated in the keg fridgeand it isnt the greatest beer i have made... by far




. I am pondering adding Lime Juice to get a Big Rock Lime type beer. But since its already in the keg I wonder if it will ruin the beer. Anyone ever tried this? Or is it gonna be Honey Blonde and Clam all weekend?




Just a note on the beer, I dont think i fouled it while brewing because the beer has some decent qualities but it has a chemical sort of tinge to it. Not like drinking bleach or sanitizer but just a hint. Maybe i didnt rinse after sanitizing well enough? This batch was also made following the RJ's recipe... gotta hate running out of Wyeast and not even realizing it hehehe


Anyway, long enough for a first post


Thanks in advance


Cheers
Taylor


----------



## smurfe (Feb 3, 2010)

Hello and welcome. First thing we need to do is to study your brewing process. Most off flavors will come from this, not the actual product. Lets start with your sanitizer. What do you sanitize with? You really should use a no rinse sanitizer. If you rinse after you sanitize, you aren't truly sanitary anymore. Do you use bleach to sanitize? You will get off flavors from that if you indeed do not rinse very well after sanitizing. If you practice stringent cleaning as well as sanitizing though, there will be no problems rinsing after sanitizing. 

Next thing that can cause the off flavors you describe is oxidation. You could get the oxidation from oxygen exposure. You can also get it from too high of fermentation temps or just exposing the beer to higher temps in general. This will produce fusol alcohols which can mimic these off tastes. Light will also contribute to this. If you ferment a beer in a carboy it should be protected from light. Also, pitching too much yeast can produce these fusol alcohols. Freshness of the product plays a major effect as well. Old extract that has started to oxidize with give a medicinal, twangy off taste. This is known as Extract Twang. Sort of the beer brewers version of Kit Taste. As said, this is normally a direct effect of extract freshness. 

Other areas to look at are not using food grade plastics in brewing. For example, using pvc tubing that looks just like the food grade tubing that is sold at auto parts stores and home centers can lead to this. Non food grade buckets and water bottles can cause this as well. Just things to look at.


----------



## smurfe (Feb 3, 2010)

Oh, one other thing I thought of after I re-read and seen your kegging. How do you carbonate? Hook up the CO2 and set the proper PSI and let carbonate on its own or do you hit it with 30-40 psi, shake the hell out if it and drink? Too much CO2 for the style of beer will host a nice carbonic bite which will have a flavor like you describe. Serving ice cold will enhance that carbonic bite flavor as well. A blonde ale is a very light bodied beer. Proper carbonation is key to balancing this style of beer.


----------



## smurfe (Feb 3, 2010)

Dang, one more thing to add. About the lime juice. I think that is going to add an undesirable acidity to the beer. It will probably cloud the beer as well. Here's what you do to see if it will work. Draw a glass of it and add a bit of the lime juice. Keep track of how much you add. If it improves the flavor then by all means add it to your keg. Go easy and add less than what you think at first. Let it settle and try it. If more is needed, add some more. Remember, you can always add more if needed but can't take it out if too much is added.


----------



## marttt (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for all the info smurfe, 


I use sparklebrite sanitizer. And when i rinse i just splash a little water around in the carboy and through my siphon. I brewed this batch in a large brew bucket used for wine (no airlock). I have now started using my secondary glass 23L carboy as my primary with the airlock, so I dont have to worry about racking. The room I brew in has very little sunlight and my last ferment was at 23C (73.4F) tops.


I force carbonate my kegs by setting the pressure and leaving it for a while. My fridge temp is at 4C (39.2F) so maybe I am a touch over carbonated. I think my reg is set at 10 or 11 psi, Im at work right now so i cant look. My lines are all bev grade so I hope its something I did when brewing and not the equipment.


And lastly I will try the lime juice in a pint and see what it taste like. I do have 2 cornys of this stuff so IF it turns out bad even after I fiddle with the lime I still have a backup. Plus the IPA is just about ready for kegging.


----------



## Dean (Feb 3, 2010)

sparklebrite is pink powder right? We call it "pink stuff" but it's real name is Diversol. This is TSP and bromide based cleaner and sanitizer that usually has a bleach like aroma when mixed up. Some substances of it also do have chlorine as well. 

You have to rinse VERY VERY WELL with this cleaner, and while it can sanitize, it requires constant contact for 20 minutes or more in order to truly work. In order to get rid of all the potential chlorine or bromine, you usually have to rinse well, and then use a sulphite to bind with the chlorine or bromine to form a salt, then rinse that out again! WAY TOO MUCH WORK!

The pink stuff does work as a very good cleaner though! Be careful around your kegs because this stuff is caustic and will pit the metal.

You will be much better off with a brewery grade sanitizer like Idophor and use the sparklebrite as a cleanser. Idophor, when mixed properly is a no rinse sanitizer.

I'm guessing what you are tasting is the leavings of the sparklebrite. You really have to rinse well in order to use that. I rinse about 5 or 6 times with a super carboy blast washer (old unit made for carboys). It would be equivalent to filling the carboy twice, draining 1/2, swish, drain, and fill again to repeat.


----------



## gaudet (Feb 4, 2010)

Dean,

What is the proper way/ratio to mix iodophor for no rinse?


----------



## marttt (Feb 4, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up on the pink stuff. I will stop using asap so i dont wreak havoc on my kegs. My local shop only has potassium metabisulphite and this sparklebrite so Im probly gonna have to order some iodophor online. Any suggested sites that ship to Canada? Also, how much sanatizing do you getout ofa 33 oz bottle? (if i order online I better get enough for a bunch of brews)


----------



## smurfe (Feb 4, 2010)

I would suggest that if you are going to order a sanitizer that you look at Star San. It is my go to sanitizer for everything now. Iodine is a good sanitizer but you have to mix it exactly as prescribed. Too little or too much will have undesirable effects. It will also stain anything plastic you use it on. It does work very well though. For cleaning, see if you can find Oxy Clean Free or Sun brand cleaner at the local grocery or discount stores. I can get Oxy Clean Free (unscented) at Wal Mart usually and Sun Brand at Wal Mart or Dollar General stores. I don't know if you have dollar stores in Canada. If you order from a brew vendor, Easy Clean, One Step (not official sanitizers even though they say they are, whole different discussion) or PBW are fantastic cleaners for all things brewing. They are per-carbonate cleaners like the local found oxygen based products described above.


----------



## smurfe (Feb 4, 2010)

gaudet said:


> Dean,
> 
> What is the proper way/ratio to mix iodophor for no rinse?



You are going to see all sort of formulas when you do a web search. This is the formula I used from John Palmer, my brewing guru from his book How To Brew. Due to his educational background besides brewing (Chemist/Metallurgist) I trust what he says. He researches everything he puts in print. Here is what he placed in How To Brew. 

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html



_*Iodophor*
Iodophor
is a solution of iodine complexed with a polymer carrier that is very
convenient to use. One tablespoon in 5 gallons of water (15ml in 19 l)
is all that is needed to sanitize equipment with a two minute soak
time. This produces a concentration of 12.5 ppm of titratable iodine.
Soaking equipment longer, for 10 minutes, at the same concentration
will disinfect surfaces to hospital standards. At 12.5 ppm the solution
has a faint brown color that you can use to monitor the solution's
viability. If the solution loses its color, it no longer contains
enough free iodine to work. There is no advantage to using more than
the specified amount of iodophor. In addition to wasting the product,
you risk exposing yourself and your beer to excessive amounts of
iodine. </font>_


_Iodophor
will stain plastic with long exposures, but that is only a cosmetic
problem. The 12.5 ppm concentration does not need to be rinsed, but the
item should be allowed to drain before use. Even though the recommended
concentration is well below the taste threshold, I rinse everything
with a little bit of cooled boiled water to avoid any chance of
off-flavors, but that's me.</font>_


----------



## Pablo (Feb 4, 2010)

I clean everything with B-Brite or Oxiclean. I sanitize with StanSan. Don't fear the foam! Rinse out the Oxiclean very well then sanitize.

I have a bottle of Iodophor but it does not get used much. I believe it's a cap full and a couple gallons of water. The directions are on the bottle. Depending on how much you brew, a bottle can last a while.


----------



## Dean (Feb 4, 2010)

gaudet said:


> Dean,What is the proper way/ratio to mix iodophor  for no rinse?



Depending on the Idophor concentration that is purchased, most are 1ml to 1L of water. I use a syringe that is 10CC or 10ml and fill it to exactly 1ml of idophor and then squirt that into exactly 1L of water in a spray bottle. Then I generously mist everything that I need to sanitize and pour off any excess. It works very well and has a 20 second kill rate.


----------



## Dean (Feb 4, 2010)

And like Smurfe says, it does stain anything plastic over time to gross brown color. Usually, when things are quite stained, it's time to replace that plastic anyways, so I don't really mind the staining.

Starsan is hard to find out where I am, otherwise I would probably use that.


----------

