# figuring alcohol



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 6, 2014)

The last time I made blackberry wine I didn't measure it for alcohol % before I racked it. Today started a vat using 20# blackberries. Do I measure alcohol or SG now? I started with 4# sugar and 20 pints of water. I am guessing how much other stuff I needed to add, so this is what I did: 

I added 5 pkgs yeast, 10 teaspoons pectin enzyme, 10 teaspoons acid blend, 5 campden tablets so far. Do I need to add yeast nutrient and how much? I just did this and plan on waiting 7 days then straining out pulp and then adding 4# sugar and 10 pints of water then putting into carboy (I have a plastic one that holds 7 gallons and a glass carboy that holds 5-which is better?) for 10 days then adding 4# sugar and 5 pints of water and rack it until fermentation ends. Have I totally gotten this recipe wrong? How many gallons of wine will I have in the end?

Donna


----------



## codeman (Sep 6, 2014)

Yes measure SG before you pitch the yeast. Then measure once fermentation is done. Then if you backsweeten measure again.


----------



## DoctorCAD (Sep 6, 2014)

You added waaaaaaay to much stuff. 20 pounds of blackberrys is only a few gallons of liquid? Id say you added 5 times too much of everything but berries.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 6, 2014)

Thanks for the input. Do I add yeast nutrient and how much?

I took a recipe for 1 gallon wine and got the ratio of berries for all the ingredients and used it to come up with what I needed for all the stuff, including water. I'm hoping to make 10 gallons of wine.


----------



## Turock (Sep 7, 2014)

This is so far off the rails that it's very difficult to give any assistance. Sure wish you would have talked with us first before starting this ferment. Blackberry can be a difficult wine for beginners because of the malic acid management that should be done on this fruit. But I'm not going to go into all the mistakes that have been made and just answer your question: You always need nutrient when making wine. And it should be step-fed. Take the entire nutrient dose and divide it in half. Pitch the first dose when the yeast becomes active and the second half at 50% sugar reduction.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks for all the input. I'll add the nutrient. I'll just have to see how this tastes when I'm done because it's too late to not put the ingredients in. Do ya'll think this will taste yukie? I still have a few pounds of berries I decided to freeze. How many # berries for 5 gallons of wine? I made wine a while back, but never checked the alcohol content, so I just bottled it. It was so delicious my friends and family wanted more but I gave them all I made except 2 bottles I kept for myself. It seemed to taste like high alcohol content.

The question I asked about figuring alcohol hasn't had a clear answer yet---what should he the SG be at? I can't find my hydrometer. My husband "put it away so it doesn't get broken" but forgot where LOL. I may have to let the SG go on its on., but hoping he remebers soon.


----------



## Turock (Sep 9, 2014)

Well, on fruit wines, many people like an alcohol content of 10-11%. If that's what you're shooting for, then the beginning SG needs to be 1.075 to 1.080. But we like an alcohol content of about 12% because you have better preservation over a longer time-frame. So 12% is an SG of 1.0873.

You need to buy a new hydrometer--can't set the brix without it. You might buy a triple scale hydrometer because then it's easy to see what SG relates to what alcohol content. It's wise to have 2 hydrometers anyway--because when/if one breaks you have another one. After all-they only break when you are using them and you can't wait around for another one to be delivered.

Under country fruit wines, there is a thread called inputs/critique for blackberry wine where I went into great discussion with vernsgal on making blackberry wine. She just reported her results on that wine as excellent, so you might want to go and read that thread. We make alot of blackberry wine and have much experience with it. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. You used too much yeast---and too much of almost everything else so you need to dialogue with us in order to help you create better ferments. Some good books might make the difference for you too. www.morewine.com has some great books that you might take a look at. Their moremanuals section has lots of free info too that you should take a look at, too.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 10, 2014)

Thanks Turock. I found my hydrometer (also will buy another later), it's been 4 days since I started this batch. I checked the SG today, twice, and it is 0.90, which is way off your post. I suppose this is just ruined, but I hate to waste this and plan to just do the whole thing and see how terrible it is when I bottle it. I have plenty berries I froze, in case I have to start over.

I started with 25# of blackberries and got the ratio between one gallon's pounds and multiplied the ratio to the rest of he ingredients to come up with what I used. Any suggestions how to save this batch. I will add sugar and water on the 13th. Any suggestions how much sugar this time? I was going to add 4# of sugar and 5 pints of water (making sugar syrup). I'm so worried this will be ruined. I had the recipe I used last time on a flash drive, but it broke. That one was so good.


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 10, 2014)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> I checked the SG today, twice, and it is 0.90, which is way off your post.



It is not really possible for your SG to be 0.900. Perhaps it is 0.990? Here is a video on how to read a hydrometer that may help:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7PAJaBsts"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7PAJaBsts[/ame]


----------



## chrishattich (Sep 11, 2014)

The only reason to measure with a hydrometer now is to check whether fermentation is complete. From now on, always check and record the original gravity of your wine before you pitch your yeast.

You've already put in this kuch time and supplies and it sounds like your committed to seeing it through, so you might as well do what you can to make it as drinkable as possible. Its an experiment if nothing else. Too much yeast isnt a problem really, but too much acid blend is a big problem that you can try to fix down the line. Also, theres no need to add the water and sugar in stages - just add the last 15 pints of water and sugar (I'd back off a little - maybe another 6 lbs) and half of your yeast nutrient dose now and just let it go. You'll continue taking gravity readings daily and once you're halfway between your original gravity reading and 1.000, add the other half of your nutrient dose and allow it to finish. You should end up with five gallons and some left over for topping off.

To combat the excess acid (your wine should taste pretty sour), you'll need to give it plenty of time to age and you'll need to backsweeten a little before bottling (then hit it with a knockout dose to kill the yeast). That should help significantly.


----------



## Turock (Sep 11, 2014)

The best way to handle the acid on this fruit is to use 71-B yeast. It will metabolize a portion of the malic acid and make the resulting wine much less harsh. Go read that thread under country wine--lots of good advice there.


----------



## chrishattich (Sep 11, 2014)

Turock said:


> The best way to handle the acid on this fruit is to use 71-B yeast. It will metabolize a portion of the malic acid and make the resulting wine much less harsh. Go read that thread under country wine--lots of good advice there.


Bingo ! That's a great plan.


----------



## Tom_S (Sep 11, 2014)

Blackberries tend to be a bit acidic anyway, so adding more acid is not really the way to go.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks for your input, chrishattich. I made a huge typo, it was 0.99 not 90. I should double check my typing before I post. Thanks again all.


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 12, 2014)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Thanks for your input, chrishattich. I made a huge typo, it was 0.99 not 90. I should double check my typing before I post. Thanks again all.



And listing the SG to three significant decimal places (like 1.022) really helps you and helps us, too.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey everyone. I've been so busy on my other projects I haven't had time to post anything. As I said earlier I screwed up saying how much SG when I started. I rechecked because I marked it with a dot to be sure I knew my starting point. It was actually 1.099. I removed all the pulp after 7 days, added 15 pints of water and 6# of sugar. Now I am VERY CONFUSED. After putting the water and sugar in I stirred it and rechecked the SG (I washed the hydrometer to take the mark off). This time it registered 1.042. Yikes. Doesn't that mean there isn't enough sugar and it will not produce alcohol??? This has been very labor intensive. First I picked 25# of blackberries over a week and got lacerated doing so. Then removing all the pulp was time consuming, plus the additives were very expensive. I hate to think this is garbage now. Is this salvageable? When should I check SG again?


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 16, 2014)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Now I am VERY CONFUSED.



Me too. 

Could you post a timeline of what you did or added, and what SG you observed? It would help us if we could see this progression in a clear, linear fashion.


----------



## Turock (Sep 16, 2014)

If your beginning SG was 1.099, that would give you a potential alcohol of over 13%. This is, far and away, enough alcohol content for a fruit wine. There was no reason to add more water and then more sugar. I'd be interested to know your logic of why you thought you needed to do that.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 17, 2014)

OK, here's the poop on this creation. I lost my recipe so I found one that made ONE GALLON. I ratioed the ingredients using the pounds for one gallon and multiplied it to the pounds I had. I took 20# blackberries, crushed them and put them in my plastic fermenter bucket with 4# sugar and 10 pints of water, added 5 packets rd wine yeast, 10 t pectin enzyme, 10 t acid blend, 5 campden tablets, 1 t yeast nutrient tested mix at 1.099. Let it sit for 7 days (did not even have one bubble all week) After 7 days I removed all the pulp, added 6# sugar, 5 pts water 1 t yeast nutrient, measured SG at 1.042. I have been watching it and it is really bubbling. Today I sampled about a tablespoon and it didn't taste too yukie. Now, after 10 days what do I do besides putting it into my glass carbol and letting it ferment and rack it repeatedly. How much more sugar and water and how often do I check SG. Do I need more nutrient? This is starting to be like when I invent new dishes to eat for my family. I just don't want it to be a total disaster and undrinkable The last time I made it I had a written recipe a friend gave me (I lost it), but it was very very tasty and my friends and family are clamoring for more. I still have about 10 blackberries I froze, so if the is a total disaster I can make another batch (probably only be 3 gallons though). I check with you guys before I attempt another batch.


----------



## DoctorCAD (Sep 17, 2014)

You really need to stop adding stuff.


----------



## Turock (Sep 17, 2014)

You want this to go to a dry state---where the SG is below 1.000---then rack to a carboy and put an airlock on it. Let it sit in that carboy--racking as needed. Let it age 9 months to 1 year. At that point, you can add sugar to sweeten along with sorbate to prevent the few remaining yeast cells from re-fermenting the added sugar. 

I need to get over to the winery this morning for our Niagara crush. But I'm more than happy to help you along so you understand the fermentation process better. I hope you read the thread on the blackberry wine under country fruit winemaking. I took alot of time to walk vernsgal thru the whole ferment, and reading that will help you understand it better. You need to get a handle on HOW to do a smooth ferment.


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 17, 2014)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Let it sit for 7 days (did not even have one bubble all week) After 7 days I removed all the pulp, added 6# sugar, 5 pts water 1 t yeast nutrient, measured SG at 1.042.



Did you happen to measure the SG just _before_ adding the 6# sugar?


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 17, 2014)

Ok DrCAD, I won't add anything else for now, I may need more sugar at the end. I will just let it chill for now. Crossing my fingers.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 19, 2014)

sour_grapes said:


> Did you happen to measure the SG just _before_ adding the 6# sugar?



Yes. It was the 1.042. I haven't checked it since I put the sugar in it. When should I check it again? I went to a supply store and bought potassium sorbate in case I need it.


----------



## Turock (Sep 19, 2014)

Just let it age in the carboy. You can't use the sorbate until the wine is clear.


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 19, 2014)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> I removed all the pulp after 7 days, added 15 pints of water and 6# of sugar. Now I am VERY CONFUSED. After putting the water and sugar in I stirred it and rechecked the SG (I washed the hydrometer to take the mark off). This time it registered 1.042.





mykidsrnutz2 said:


> After 7 days I removed all the pulp, added 6# sugar, 5 pts water 1 t yeast nutrient, measured SG at 1.042.





sour_grapes said:


> Did you happen to measure the SG just _before_ adding the 6# sugar?





mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Yes. It was the 1.042. I haven't checked it since I put the sugar in it.



Your second note would imply that the temporal order was "Add sugar, then check SG." Your first and third notes would indicate "Check SG, then add sugar." Which was it?

You have asked several times now when you should check SG, and I don't think anyone has answered you. My answer is: Check the SG every day.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, allow me to explain a basic fact. (I don't want to sound insulting, but, from your notes, it seems possible that you do not know this.) 
When you add sugar, the SG goes up.
The yeast eat this sugar, and produce alcohol.
As a result of this fermentation, the SG will go down.
At the end of this fermentation, the SG will be below 1.000. This is okay.
The yeast are incapable of fermenting sugar indefinitely; they can only tolerate around 15-18% alcohol before the alcohol kills them. Thus, adding too much "food" for the yeast will result in a wine that has leftover sugar in it.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 19, 2014)

Paul, you finally answered my question about checking the SG. I never want to sound obtuse, but tell me when I add more sugar. I don't want it too sweet, but I don't want it to taste sour. The last time I made it (my first attempt) it turned out great. The only mistake I made was I never checked the SG, so I had no idea the alcohol content, but it tasted like it had a high alcohol content, but it was smooth and delicious. I didn't bottle it until about 10 months. Thanks everyone.


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 19, 2014)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> I never want to sound obtuse, but tell me when I add more sugar. I don't want it too sweet, but I don't want it to taste sour.



Generally, this is the way this is done:

-Before fermentation starts, add sugar to get the amount of alcohol you want. (The alcohol by volume, ABV, will be close to (starting SG - 1) * 131. So if you start with SG=1.090, the ABV will be close to .090*131=11.8%.)

-Don't add any more sugar after this point. Instead, let it ferment all the way until all the sugar is gone (SG < 0.995 or so).

(Rack off lees, etc.)

-Stabilize by adding potassium sulfite and potassium sorbate.

-Now sweeten to taste by adding sugar to your liking.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi ya'll. Today is day 10. I racked into my carbol. My glass carbols only hold 3.5 gallons, so I have one full and one abut 1/2 full. Per you guys telling me not to add anything I just racked it. Today's SG was 1.020. I'm not sure what that means. Does it mean there is no alcohol yet? I took a tiny taste and it is not sweet at all.

Thanks,
Donna


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 24, 2014)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Today's SG was 1.020. I'm not sure what that means. Does it mean there is no alcohol yet?



No, that is not what it means. It means that most, but not all, of the sugar (which raised your initial SG) has been converted to alcohol.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hi Guys. I took a SG reading today and am not quite sure what the reading would be. It was 2 lines above the 100. Do I need to add sugar yet? It doesn't look like it is bubbling anymore. Next time I'm using a recipe from the forum.

 Donna


----------



## sour_grapes (Sep 30, 2014)

Turock said:


> You want this to go to a dry state---where the SG is below 1.000---then rack to a carboy and put an airlock on it. Let it sit in that carboy--racking as needed. Let it age 9 months to 1 year. At that point, you can add sugar to sweeten along with sorbate to prevent the few remaining yeast cells from re-fermenting the added sugar.





mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Do I need to add sugar yet? It doesn't look like it is bubbling anymore. Next time I'm using a recipe from the forum.




I think turock was pretty clear.





mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Hi Guys. I took a SG reading today and am not quite sure what the reading would be. It was 2 lines above the 100.



I cannot tell which way you would mean by "above." It is probably either at SG=1.004 or 0.996, depending on which way you meant it.

Here is a video that will explain how to read a hydrometer.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7PAJaBsts"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7PAJaBsts[/ame]


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Sep 30, 2014)

Ok so from what you said it's .0996. I can see ya'll rolling your eyes at my stupid questions, but this is only my second try. did watch the SG video. Thanks all.


----------



## Turock (Oct 3, 2014)

No----we like stupid questions. It's the ONLY way to learn. It sure isn't a stupid question if you just don't know!!!

Don't pay any attention to us----we roll our eyes all the time, anyway!! LOL.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Oct 4, 2014)

Thanks all. I plan to rack this a bunch because the one thing I know I did wrong last time was that some of the bottles had a bit of sediment in the bottom, not much, so this time I'm going to rack the poop out of it before I bottle it. Hopefully it'll turn out a little bit sweet in the end. I've learned a lot.


----------



## DoctorCAD (Oct 4, 2014)

Excess racking won't take sediment out of the wine, only time and gravity (or finings if you use them) will do that. Let it sit all alone and untouched for 30 days before making any more decisions.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Oct 5, 2014)

thanks for the info. I did't know, so I'll let to sit.


----------



## Turock (Oct 5, 2014)

HOW could you not know?? I said THAT a million times!! (Eye roll!!!!)


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Oct 6, 2014)

Turock said:


> HOW could you not know?? I said THAT a million times!! (Eye roll!!!!)



You said "rack as necessary". I am going to leave it alone for at least 30 days.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Jun 7, 2015)

Hey ya'll, it's me again. I followed your suggestions and have racked it a couple of times and let it sit in my garage since October. I checked the SG and it is now .990. I tasted it and it is not sweet at all. I want to sweeten it before bottling, so what do I do and if I had SG of 1.024 in October when I last checked and .990 now does that make the alcohol content .21? That doesn't seem right.

Secondly, I have 9# of blackberries for next batch. What recipe should I use for this amount of berries. I don't want to waste them because they are a pain to pick.


----------



## sour_grapes (Jun 7, 2015)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> if I had SG of 1.024 in October when I last checked and .990 now does that make the alcohol content .21?



According to the earlier posts, you had a SG of 1.042 in September.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Jun 9, 2015)

oops my dyslexia once again shines through. it was 1.042


----------



## Floandgary (Jun 9, 2015)

I like to ferment to dry,, usually .990 and mostly reds. When I rack to secondary I'm prepared to experiment,,,, back sweetening/oaking/flavoring or what-have-you. A little bit of research about the particular wine can reveal which flavors are typical, how it is used, blendings, etc., etc.. from that info I choose a compatable fruit, sugars, flavorings, or blenders to accent mouthfeel, sweetness, nose and on and on,,,, What ever my taster (wife) deems acceptable!!! All in all it's kind of like the process used to buy paint. Start with a base then tweak to get a desirable result. BUT as others here constantly remind, do not forget the most important ingredient,,,, TIME...


----------



## wineforfun (Jun 9, 2015)

Make sure and add sorbate before you backsweeten. 
If it is at .990, then you won't have much flavor, it is very dry at the moment. Hit it with some sugar and the flavors will start to come out.


----------



## wineforfun (Jun 9, 2015)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> .990 now does that make the alcohol content .21? That doesn't seem right.



According to your past posts(SG 1.099 and now .990) your ABV would be 14%+, not 21. Not sure where you are getting that.


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Jun 10, 2015)

Thanks ya'll. I'm not sure how much sugar I need to add. I'm going for a full bodied blackberry wine. Is 2# enough? (It started with 8# of sugar, but is not sweet at all now). How much water do i add. Sorry my math was 
off on the alcohol, I was, and still am, horrible with math. In college when I was taking my required math my hair literally started falling out  and I just passed. I'll have to buy some sorbate.


----------



## corinth (Jun 10, 2015)

mykidsrnutz,
Hi there. you definitely need to give a thumbs up to sour grapes and turock for all there feedback and some of the eye muscle strain.

Corinth


----------



## JDC (Jun 10, 2015)

wineforfun said:


> According to your past posts(SG 1.099 and now .990) your ABV would be 14%+, not 21. Not sure where you are getting that.



Actually the actual alcohol content is well above 14%, because additional sugar was added in steps AFTER the initial 1.099 (if that was initial), if no other sugar had been added then yes 14.2 or so %, but sugar was added during fermentation. In order to have a better handle on a closer estimate of ABV, the initial SG + the before and after SG of every sugar add step + the final SG are required - that or total pounds/oz/grams of sugar added + volume of liquid.


----------



## wineforfun (Jun 10, 2015)

JDC said:


> Actually the actual alcohol content is well above 14%, because additional sugar was added in steps AFTER the initial 1.099 (if that was initial), if no other sugar had been added then yes 14.2 or so %, but sugar was added during fermentation. In order to have a better handle on a closer estimate of ABV, the initial SG + the before and after SG of every sugar add step + the final SG are required - that or total pounds/oz/grams of sugar added + volume of liquid.



Yes, you are correct, I didn't catch that in the original post. It was kind of all over the place.


----------



## JDC (Jun 10, 2015)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Thanks ya'll. I'm not sure how much sugar I need to add. I'm going for a full bodied blackberry wine. Is 2# enough? (It started with 8# of sugar, but is not sweet at all now). How much water do i add. Sorry my math was
> off on the alcohol, I was, and still am, horrible with math. In college when I was taking my required math my hair literally started falling out  and I just passed. I'll have to buy some sorbate.



At this point, you add sugar in steps until it tastes the way you want it. Add the Potassium Sorbate and then add sugar to taste - one way to do this is to take a known volume out (8-16 oz) & add sugar to this sample (measuring sugar along the way) until it is close to how you want it to taste - then do the math to calculate the amount to add to the big batch. I would not add any water


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Jun 11, 2015)

Thanks JDC. Thanks for the do the math comment after I told you math makes my hair literally fall out.  LOL I have a math genius son , so i'll have him do the math.


----------



## JDC (Jun 11, 2015)

mykidsrnutz2 said:


> Thanks JDC. Thanks for the do the math comment after I told you math makes my hair literally fall out.  LOL* I have a math genius son , so i'll have him do the math*.



I would not trust him......I hear he's nutz


----------



## mykidsrnutz2 (Jun 12, 2015)

yep, so true, but he is gifted in math.


----------

