# CO2 protection



## AAASTINKIE (Mar 1, 2005)

What some might not know is CO2 will blanket the wine in the primary and secondary from air very well, when I'm not sweeping the floor at work, I also run a GE 60 megawhatt turbine generator, the generating section is run in a pure hydrogen atmosphere (very slippery) when we take it down for maintenence we have to degass it. When we refill it we push the air out by putting CO2 in from the bottom, it does not mix much with the air but statifies and pushes the air out the top, then when we have pure CO2 coming out the top we inject hydrogen in the top till it pushes all the CO2 out the bottom. Thats why I feel using a primary bucket for my secondary is OK bcause the must is still fermenting, I accept the fact that if I want top quality glass would be the way to go, but right now I am just thirsty!!




(remember interesting posts get extra points) what contest.


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## masta (Mar 1, 2005)

HEY HEY....I also work with hydrogen in pressure rated reactor autoclaves....running a reaction right now @ 105 psia/60 degrees C.


sssssh...I am multi tasking boss!


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## Hippie (Mar 1, 2005)

Stinkie, as the fermentation slows, the yeast does not need nearly as much O2 (anaerobic) as it did during the trip from a high SG down to say 1.010 (aerobic)After the wine gets thin and has lots of alcohol, the yeastare producing very little CO2, andthe wine is less protected, and will, without doubt, become oxidised. To what degree, I don't know, but you need to get it topped up and in a carboy definitelylower than 1.000.Live and learn.


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## AAASTINKIE (Mar 2, 2005)

Well as soon as I can I'll go pickup some more 23ltr carboys, the place in Bangor only gets $18 for them in glass. thanks for the help.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 2, 2005)

That's a darn good price.


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## Hippie (Mar 4, 2005)

I agree. I wish I could get them for $18. There is absolutely no place anywhere near here for me to get any supplies. Everything must be shipped in and heavy objects get expensive!


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## Maineiak (Mar 7, 2005)

Where do you buy your equipment Stinkie? Do they have a website?


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## MedPretzel (Mar 7, 2005)

A great store is FineVineWines.com





Use it, you're using their forum!





Martina


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## Maineiak (Mar 8, 2005)

Oops. I didn't mean to offend anyone with the question.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 8, 2005)

No, no offense!!! I was just kiddin' with ya!!!





Sorry.


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## Hippie (Mar 9, 2005)

George's prices are actually hard to beat, especially if you don't live too far away.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 13, 2005)

Actually, George's prices are great...It's the shipping to me that kills my "toy wants."


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## AAASTINKIE (Mar 13, 2005)

Georges prices are great, and if you live 50 miles from your nearest wine shop like I do with gas at $2 per gallon and no sales tax (5%) and free labels and the brown truck brings it to your house...and you get most of your help here when you have a problem ...and your local wine guy says air is OK for wine (showing you his 1/2 full carboys)..buying from George is a NO BRAINER it's the only way to go!!






(does that sound better)*Edited by: AAASTINKIE *


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## Maui Joe (Mar 13, 2005)

Huh?


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## AAASTINKIE (Mar 13, 2005)

I mean it's a good deal buy my items from George even though I live far away from him, the islands might be a different story.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 13, 2005)

Yeah, George tries his best to accommodate us but the Postal Dept. gouge deep. I'd love to buy more kits, and toys but it's like *double *and this causes me to hold back alot.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 13, 2005)

Wow, that's a lot more.



Kit wines are fun, but I also have a lot of fun making country wines. There are certain fruits that you can get interesting results from. For example carrots make a nice wine.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 13, 2005)

For sure, I enjoy making our local fruit wines that grow everywhere here. I have Passion fruit, Pineapple, Star Fruit, Orange, Mango, Apple, Banana, Blueberry, Concord.??? something else??


Never tried vegetables, or herbs, flowers etc. I was raised Italian, and it's hard to drift away from the Reds/.


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## AAASTINKIE (Mar 14, 2005)

Maui Joe, how about posting that Banana recipe...I like banana's


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## Maui Joe (Mar 14, 2005)

O'kay Stinkie, I will post it over at the "Recipe" forum section and also add my comments to the subject.


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## AAASTINKIE (Mar 14, 2005)

there's something about banana wine that apeals to me, I guess that's the thing about wine you like something, mix it with sugar and into the pail..lol


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## MedPretzel (Mar 14, 2005)

Banana wine has a lot of body. It is nice to blend it with other wines who are lacking (i.e. Strawberry). I've never really oficially blended wines, but I would say a Strawberry-Banana wine with a little more banana than strawberry might make the strawberry part actually good.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 14, 2005)

I have used banana many time to fortify alot of wines, even in a grape wine it will increase the body and mellow out later where the aromas of the grape will increase. A "hot" item in the backyard!


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## Hippie (Mar 14, 2005)

Man! Don't we all wish we could grow bananas in our backyards. Joe, you are bragging again!


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## Maui Joe (Mar 14, 2005)

Oops! I guess it's a "trade-off" for not being able to wander about picking up "free" blueberries, and wild grapes, etc. If I had all that here as well, I would probably not buy any kits....Surf's Up!




Oops!


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## Hippie (Mar 14, 2005)

Oh, you are a mean one! It was, however, 83*F here this past saturday, and we were in shorts. We had a good family day! 


Also, the CO2 in the atmosphere seemed very low with a high O2 content, which was nice.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 15, 2005)

On the flip side, we do have very bad days here as well..especially around 2 am. lately, down to 62 with strong wind and rain...weird


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## Hippie (Mar 15, 2005)

Must be the El Nino!


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## MedPretzel (Mar 15, 2005)

Well, if El Nino gives us 80 degree weather in March, send him up here for a couple of days. I'm sick of the snow.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 15, 2005)

Todays forcast, 45-50 knot winds, 68-70 degrees, constant rain showers, the sun is up, and so is the *surf!*


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## MedPretzel (Mar 15, 2005)

I got pulled into the ocean by the undertow once when I was 6, and it has freaked me out for the rest of my life. I was grabbed by the hair by my sister so I wouldn't float away to sea. 


Scary experience, but I have total respect now for all things with water.


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## Hippie (Mar 15, 2005)

Raining and snowing here right now and 30 degrees. Huh-oh.


It is not uncommon to be 80 degrees here in february and very common in march.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 15, 2005)

The "Hawaiians" have a saying that you learn from early childhood beingexposed to the ocean . And, I think that this would carry around the world regardless of what "sea" your'e at. *"Never, ever, face your back to the ocean."*


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## Hippie (Mar 15, 2005)

I like to walk in the water and along the beach, but I do not like to get that salt water on my face. I think it is nasty tasting and burns my eyes. It probably takes alot of getting used to for a country boy grown up in the lake and river.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 15, 2005)

I always love the sting of saltwater in my eyes. It means I'm at the ocean. What can I say? I'm a cancer.


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## Hippie (Mar 16, 2005)

Well I am a cancer too, and a lover of water, but not the salty kind. I'll take my salt on the rim of a glass.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 16, 2005)

Nothing wrong with that, dear friend.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 16, 2005)

A good alternative for sodium intake!


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## MedPretzel (Mar 16, 2005)

Yes!!! It is also very good for some skin conditions, like psoriasis. It always helps me!


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## Maui Joe (Mar 16, 2005)

The "salt" or the "Margarita?"


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## MedPretzel (Mar 16, 2005)

Hahaha, both, actually. 





Well, actually, I was thinking more of the sun and the salt of some wonderful beaches in the world.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 16, 2005)

Ah yes, that has been proven to work very well indeed. Great healings have been done at the beach.


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## Vinmaker (Mar 17, 2005)

I also share your theory. I tested it with my latest kit. I
just started a WineExpert Luna Rossa. This time I decided to keep
it in the primary for a full 23 days (I think). Until the
stabilization stage anyway. My bucket has a cover with an
airlock. So on day four I cranked down the cover and put it under
an air lock. I figured that by keeping the yeast undisturbed, it
may be happier and keep working. 



My wines seem to want to stop working after I put them into the
carboy. They stop around .998. I have never gotten down to
the .992 level.



Anyway. I also felt that the CO2 inside the bucket would protect
it. So far so good. I did not detect any oxidation taste at
all. Plus I avoided some air by eliminating a racking.



I would only recommend this to people with a tight cover with a rubber
gasket and an airlock. Those that use the Syran wrap method may
not be able to utilize this method.



Vinmaker.

















AAASTINKIE said:


> What some might not know is CO2 will blanket the wine
> in the primary and secondary from air very well, when I'm not sweeping
> the floor at work, I also run a GE 60 megawhatt turbine generator, the
> generating section is run in a pure hydrogen atmosphere (very slippery)
> ...


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## Hippie (Mar 19, 2005)

I see no harm with that method when fermenting juice only.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 19, 2005)

Are wefocusing on eliminating racking at all, or just the first racking?


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## Hippie (Mar 19, 2005)

Just the first racking when doing juice only fermentations, so I wonder, why not just start it in a carboy?


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## masta (Mar 19, 2005)

The only drawback to that is the head space you have with using the normal primary fermenter since some kits I have done do foam up. The other option is too reduce the level in the carboy so you have more head space.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 19, 2005)

I, too, would be leery about starting a wine in a carboy (I speak from experience). I have had my share of cleanups by trying.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 19, 2005)

My first wine ever..in 1970, a neighbor explained how he did his so I tried it twice. I used a 5-gal. bucket, 1/4 filled with squeezed starfruit and juice. I remember using "bakers yeast," water from the pipe, and unknown amount of sugar and let her rip. I think it was around 30 days left in the primary with just the lid sitting on top-*no airlock*, or any other items in the primary.


I remember stirring now and then that was about it. After a period of time, one day I peeked and the wine was clear, with all the fruit and lees settled to the bottom. It came out from what I remembered quite good, sorta remined me of a heavy brandy.


Now basing that theory from what Stinkie and Vinmaker posted (taking to mind the reason I rack, to eliminate the lees and shoot for a clear wine without any possible off-flavors from settled dead yeast, etc.) I would want to rack after initial fermentation.


Now with only juice, whether clear juice or a cloudy soupy juice, that would eventually settle on it's own, why would we not be able to start the primary process in a carboy at a lower level, let it run, watch the lees settle undisturbed, draw a sample to test S.G., then top up after all the action has slowed down and proceed further. 


At this point, I agree with CW...why not.


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## Hippie (Mar 19, 2005)

People do it all the time. It is not uncommon. some folks even start a kit in a 6 gallon carboy and add water a little at a time over several days. This of course will void the warranty, but who has to know?


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## MedPretzel (Mar 19, 2005)

I just couldn't use bread yeast. Call me "new-fashioned" but, that is something I couldn't do.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 19, 2005)

I know, but then I didn't...still learning..


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## Hippie (Mar 20, 2005)

Actually, I have never used it, and have been contemplating using it in a 'new-old fashioned' low alcohol wine.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 20, 2005)

I spoke with the old timers about yeast, wine, beer and moon shine theories of the old days. They think that I am sorta nuts about it all regarding controlled enviroment, chemicals, various yeasts, etc. And you know, their stuffwasn't the greatest, but it wasn't bad either considering..


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## Hippie (Mar 20, 2005)

Hey, I love the good white lightning that is still made here. It is very clear, and has a very neutral taste. It is smooth going down, but sometimes hurts my belly.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 20, 2005)

It might work under the hood you think?


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## Hippie (Mar 20, 2005)

Some say you can run an engine on it.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 20, 2005)

Maui Joe said:


> I spoke with the old timers about yeast, wine, beer and moon shine theories of the old days. They think that I am sorta nuts about it all regarding controlled enviroment, chemicals, various yeasts, etc. And you know, their stuffwasn't the greatest, but it wasn't bad either considering..







I totally agree with this. My gramma made wine too, and I have to say, the only thing she really made sure of was that she got wine yeast. The rest was left in Mother Nature's hands.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 20, 2005)

Mother Nature was kinder then in those days too!


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## MedPretzel (Mar 20, 2005)

I can imagine that. She used all the things that were left over in her garden. She had a very green thumb, and always had about 15 gallons going.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 20, 2005)

Ah, it just might be that "green thumb"...possible source of tanin maybe?


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## Hippie (Mar 20, 2005)

LMAO


Hey that could be!


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## MedPretzel (Mar 20, 2005)

Could be.... She made very good country wines.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 20, 2005)

Any recipes noted?


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## MedPretzel (Mar 20, 2005)

No, she did it just how she thought she should. Never measured anything. "A dash of this, a pinch of that." And it worked!


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## Hippie (Mar 20, 2005)

Entirely possible. I bet she was a nice lady.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 20, 2005)

Those good old fine recipes.....meals included.


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## Hippie (Mar 21, 2005)

I sure miss my Grandma's cooking. She could make a mess of white beans, cornbread, and fried potatoes seem like a royal feast! My wife is pretty good at that too.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 21, 2005)

Country Wine said:


> Entirely possible. I bet she was a nice lady.







She was, but I don't really remember her. I was 3 when she died. But the weird thing is, I have all sorts of mannerisms that she had, and there's no logical explanation for that. I say things the way she said them, and no one has ever said them to me. It's like she's sort of reincarnated in me. I also look and walk like her. It's even spooky to me.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 21, 2005)

Well, when you plant grapes.....you get grapes.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 21, 2005)

Yes, how true that is. 





I do remember her chocolate pudding though. I haven't tasted anything better since.


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## Hippie (Mar 21, 2005)

I would almost kill for chocolate pudding right now.





*Edited by: Country Wine *


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## RAMROD (Mar 27, 2005)

Newbe question C02 is that what cause's the foam when you stir. I racked to secondary today and stirred it real good got a lot of foam.


????????????????????


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## Hippie (Mar 28, 2005)

Yes, you were forcing CO2 out of suspension, just like stirring or shaking pop, or beer, or champagne.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 28, 2005)

Keep stirring like that until you get no or very, very little foam, and then stir a little more.














It's the only part of winemaking that I absolutely hate.


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## RAMROD (Mar 28, 2005)

The instructions say to leave alone for ten day will it hurt anything if I stir some more today or tomorrow? Also I belive I dranied to the secondary to fast I see a lot of sedement in the bottom of the carboy. Is this ok do I need to rack to another carboy once again if I go by the instructions I will be bottleing from the present carboy.






I may be trying to make this harder than it needs to be cause I have been reading about everyone making county wine and this is a kit.






Will try to chill I know this is my first but I still want it to be the best!


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## Hippie (Mar 28, 2005)

Rodd, you must get the CO2 out as much as possible if not now then when you add the finings. The finings have a harder time clearing the wine with too much CO2 present, so plan on stirring ALOT when you get to the next step in the instructions, stabilizing and fining.


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