# Backsweetening fruit wines



## meadman77 (Apr 3, 2015)

Hi everyone,
I would really appreciate some feedback on making fruit wines in general. I have just started getting into this hobby and so far have made some mead (JAO, peach and sparkling gingermead) and a few fruit wines that are aging (banana, plum, orange). 

The issue I have it that when I have tasted these wines when racking after fermenting to dryness , the wine has tasted, well, very dry and acidic! 

It is hard to explain but the end product doesn't really have the flavour that I was expecting (at least at this point). I'm sure this is quite common for novices like me.

I used bakers yeast to make one wine (usually I use K1V or EC1118) - the orange wine - as a bit of an experiment. There was residual sweetness which i'm sure was due to the yeast reaching it's limit. The wine did have a bit of a yeasty flavour which you don't seem to get with wine yeasts and it is probably not an ideal way to end up with a sweet wine (stressed yeast = off flavours) and also quite hard to predict the level of residual sugars.

Most recipes that I have seen apart from skeeter pee don't mention stabilising and backsweetening after fermentation but i'm not sure if this is because it is just assumed that people will adjust to their own taste.

I know it is a personal thing, but how many people back sweeten (non-sparkling) fruit wines and how many leave as they are?

Also how common is it to use F-pacs to bring back some of the fruit flavour after fermentation?

Any advice is really appreciated, thanks.


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## jswordy (Apr 3, 2015)

I backsweeten almost every fruit wine I make. It boosts flavor and can cut acidity, as well as adding body. I use sorbate to ensure the fermentation does not restart, then bench test to taste and sweeten the batch based on the measured bench test.

I've never made an f-pack.I use the base juice if I want to flavor boost and backsweeten. If I want to boost the sweetening, I bench test, then use the hydrometer to asses base juice gravity and add sugar to reach my intended gravity. Then backsweeten with that. No heat needed or used.

IMO, the key to fruit wines is to load the front end with as much fruit as you possibly can, then backsweeten with juice and/or sugar just enough to bring the flavor out. The lighter fruits (think apple) can be made into a good dry wine with an all-fruit (no water) base, but most fruit needs the sugar at the end to round it out.

Hope this helps. Cheers!


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## SBWs (Apr 3, 2015)

I back sweeten every fruit wine I make. 

I usually do it in steps, every 90 days.

I use a steam juicer to make pint jars of juice and use these with sugar to sweeten. 

Another pointer is to adjust the must with calcium carb to a pH around 3.5 before you start. It won't take as much sweetening to cover the acid when it's done fermenting. I've found if you start with a high acid must (low pH) then it takes so much sweetening of the finished wine to cover the acid that you can end up with a cough syrup tasting wine.


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## TemperanceOwl (Apr 4, 2015)

meadman77 said:


> I know it is a personal thing, but how many people back sweeten (non-sparkling) fruit wines and how many leave as they are?
> 
> Also how common is it to use F-pacs to bring back some of the fruit flavour after fermentation?
> 
> Any advice is really appreciated, thanks.



I have the same question! I've got my first batch of fruit wine in primary right now (Dragon Blood) and want to back sweeten with juice made from the four berries included in the wine. I want to make an F-pack using that fruit and a simple syrup recipe, but am worried about adding fruit particles after the wine has already cleared. I've been pondering how I'm going to do that when I get to that step. 
Any tips on that would be very helpful, too.


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## quiltertoo (Apr 4, 2015)

I recently bottled my first db batch. It was made with blueberry, blackberry and red raspberry. I followed directions for each step. After adding potassium sorbate and sugar the wine cleared very well in a couple of weeks. When I tasted it before bottling I decided I wanted to add a little more flavor so I added 3 12oz. cans of mixed berry concentrate to my six gallon batch. It made my batch cloudy again but it cleared in less than 2 weeks. The concentrate didn't add a lot more flavor but it was enough to bring out the berry flavor and was just what I wanted. Love the way it turned out.

Mary Lou


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## meadman77 (Apr 4, 2015)

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Good to know that some people at least feel that it is necessary to backsweeten in most cases. It will allow me to see the potential in a different way when tasting the wine throughout it's aging. Will also keep an eye on the starting pH.


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## Arne (Apr 4, 2015)

@jswordy All I could think of was Otis bench testing. Time to lock yourself in jail. LOL, Arne.


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## TemperanceOwl (Apr 4, 2015)

Thanks, Mary Lou. I may try the juice concentrate. I've been following all the steps, too, and am halfway through primary. The juice was fantastic when I started, but when I tasted it a couple of nights ago halfway through fermentation I got worried about where it's headed. I really want to have the fruit flavors come forward in the end.


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## quiltertoo (Apr 4, 2015)

TemperanceOwl said:


> Thanks, Mary Lou. I may try the juice concentrate. I've been following all the steps, too, and am halfway through primary. The juice was fantastic when I started, but when I tasted it a couple of nights ago halfway through fermentation I got worried about where it's headed. I really want to have the fruit flavors come forward in the end.



I also bottled a batch of elderberry db. When I tasted it I really liked it without any sweetening and it had a nice elderberry flavor. Since most of my family like some sweetness in their wine I decided to sweeten half of this batch. It is good both ways. It didn't need anymore berry flavor added to it. I think you can decide when it is finished if you need more flavor or not. I am now going to start a tropical blend db in the next few weeks. So many wines to make and so little time. 

Mary Lou
.


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## TemperanceOwl (Apr 4, 2015)

quiltertoo said:


> So many wines to make and so little time.
> 
> Mary Lou
> .



Ain't that the truth!?


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## jensmith (Apr 5, 2015)

I almost never backsweeten any of my fruit wines. I like them dry. Age brings back the flavor. Age cures many ills!! On the rare occation I do sweethen I use fruit juice concentrate. A little goes a long way. 


Sent from my iPod touch using Wine Making


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 5, 2015)

I like others will use frozen juice concentrates to bring up the sugar and the fruit.


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## Bobwhite (Apr 7, 2015)

Same here I've never sugured any wine just concentrate to boost the flavor


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## wineforfun (Apr 7, 2015)

I normally do just the opposite as I make sure and load up the front end(pre-fermentation) with plenty of fruit for my flavor. Then once fermented, cleared and stabilized, add sugar as necessary to achieve desired sweetness or flavor.


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## WineYooper (Apr 7, 2015)

I usually let mine ferment to dry, which most cases is about.990-.995, then KMS & sorbate at first racking. The next racking I backsweeten with simple syrup and bring my SG to about 1.01 and I like and most others enjoy as well. It almost brings it to a neutral point, not dry not sweet and very fruity. Has worked well for blackberry, cranberry, elderberry, raspberry, & apple.


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## Julie (Apr 7, 2015)

When backsweetening, go slowly and taste as you go until you come very close to what you want. Also, take some wine out of the carboy, warm it up and put your sugar in that instead of water, add it back to your wine and taste to see if you have it where you want it. Rule of thumb is 1 cup of sugar will raise sg approximately .018 per gallon. 

And remember your acid level will also play a part in how much you need to backsweeten.


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## ceeaton (Apr 7, 2015)

Reading and liking the info in this thread. 

I've got a blueberry/concord, niagara/concord, niagara/peach and a niagara/cranberry all aging, all about 3 months old, all .990 except the cranberry which was .992 (big woops). Had an earlier (1st batch) niagara/raspberry that we backsweetened to 1.005, and now that it's aged a little more it's too sweet for me but okay for my wife. Will aim lower next time if my wife lets me.

So what I am reading on this post is to bench test and sweeten a little less than what you like, with either more concentrate or sugar dissolved in some of the wine itself, take a SG reading of that, then calculate what you need to bring the whole batch up to "snuff". Am I thinking clearly or has this burgundy I'm drinking got the better of me?


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## Turock (Apr 9, 2015)

If you use no water in most of your fruit ferments, and adjust the PH before beginning the ferment, then you'll have good flavor and acid control so that you can use less sugar. Sugar is really used to balance the acid--not necessarily to make the wine sweet. And different wine cultures add flavor nuances so I would not use baker's yeast. One of our fav fruit wine yeasts is Montrachet. It has a fruity profile to it and is especially good on fruit or fruity-tasting grapes.

If you stop adding water, and use good-tasting fruit---which is especially important on strawberry wine---you'll never need to add an f-pac.


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## Turock (Apr 9, 2015)

ceeaton---when sweetening, the SG will depend on where you have the acid. More acid will need more sugar to balance it. Bench testing is the only way to do it so when you find the SG is pleasant to you, then take a reading and make the whole carboy to the same SG. 

If you're having to get the wine too sweet for your tastes to balance the acid, then you need to raise the PH pre-ferment so that it doesn't take so much sugar to balance the acid. THAT'S what gives you the perception of sweetness--a good balance of acid and sugar.


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## ceeaton (Apr 9, 2015)

I did adjust the pH/TA for all of the concentrate batches except one, the White Grape/Cranberry is a pH of 3.15 with a TA of .84%. All of the others are in the 3.25 to 3.5 range with TA's between .49% and .61%. So hopefully I won't have to back sweeten too much. Some I may even leave half of the batch dry (especially the peach) I plan on using like juice or concentrate, then fine tuning with simple syrup.


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## Stressbaby (Apr 9, 2015)

Backsweetening fruit wines in my opinion is like hara hachi bu. When you are 80% there, you are there.


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## TemperanceOwl (Apr 10, 2015)

What kind of frozen juice concentrate do you all use to back sweeten? I wanted to use a triple berry blend or strawberry in my Dragon Blood, but am not able to find anything that is only that. I find grape, and blends that mainly include apple, pineapple, and citrus fruits that I don't think will blend well with the blueberry, raspberry and blackberry of my wine.
What have y'all used in berry wines?
Thanks!


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## quiltertoo (Apr 10, 2015)

I used a mixed berry concentrate that I got at Walmart. I don't remember if it was Welches or Old Orchard.


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## wineforfun (Apr 10, 2015)

Old Orchard makes a 100% juice concentrate that is Mixed Berry. I find not all stores carry it though.


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## TemperanceOwl (Apr 10, 2015)

wineforfun said:


> Old Orchard makes a 100% juice concentrate that is Mixed Berry. I find not all stores carry it though.



Is this the one you use? It's the only one I see that is a berry blend, but when you look at the ingredients its base is apple. I just don't know what that might do to my 4 berry blend DB.


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## wineforfun (Apr 10, 2015)

TemperanceOwl said:


> Is this the one you use? It's the only one I see that is a berry blend, but when you look at the ingredients its base is apple. I just don't know what that might do to my 4 berry blend DB.



That's the one. With that said, I don't use it on DB. I don't use any concentrate on DB. I only use straight table sugar(or honey the one time I made a DB melomel). To me, it is not needed. I use 1.5lbs of fruit per gal. and it yields plenty of fruit flavor.
I have used that mixed berry blend with another wine I made.

FYI
You will notice with almost every juice concentrate by Old Orchard, Welchs, etc., ie: blueberry/pomegranate, cranberry blend, mango/passionfruit, etc. that apple is normally the first ingredient. Alot of them will have pear up there too as apple and pear are much cheaper than giving you all blueberry, mango, etc.


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## Zog (Apr 11, 2015)

I also back sweeten most of my apple and pear cider wines. I make my own concentrate from fresh juice. This adds much more flavor and body to the wine compared to sweetening with sugar or fructose.

Even with the addition of sorbate, I've had a couple batches start fermenting again. So you need to watch out for that. 

Alternately, I've played around with different methods to stop the fermentation at the sweetness level I'm looking for instead of fermenting to dry and then back sweetening. It's tricky to do... it takes sterile filtering, high sulfite, cold stabilization or all of the above.


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## fabrictodyefor (Apr 11, 2015)

There is certainly an art to getting the flavor just the way you want. Several times I have made a frozen concord grape concentrate/blackberry Dragon's Blood version which I had never back sweetened. I like it dry. This last bottling didn't seem as good, so to one of my bottles I added 1 TBS of simple syrup and we were amazed at the difference in flavor. As this batch is already bottled I will just add the SS as I open the bottle. I had made a plum, one of my first batches and it really did not have enough plum flavor even after 14 months in a car boy, it just tasted like alcohol. So I made a flavor pak of a few jars of my home canned plums and a jar of homemade plum jam. Simmered most of the water out, added it to the carboy and let it set another couple of months. After racking again, letting it sit another couple months, then stabilizing it was finally ready to bottle. It is sweeter than most of my wines, but among my beer drinking friends it is a favorite! And those bench tests can be kind of fun, sampling and sampling and well you get the picture!


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## Jc5066 (Apr 17, 2015)

I use old orchard concentrate. The flavor depends on the flavor wine I am making.

Apple is almost always used in the 100% blends because it adds the sweetness.


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