# 2013 Chilean Juices



## ffemt128 (May 6, 2013)

Are in the cellar. I picked up the following;

Cabernet Sauvignon ph 2.89 sg 1.060
Pinot Noir ph 3.45 sg 1.092
Syrah ph 3.30 sd 1.084
Carmenere ph 3.24 sg 1.086
Malbec ph 3.44 sg 1.096

Muscat ph 3.41 sg 1.082 ta .300
Sauvignon Blanc ph 3.52 sg 1.084 ta .345

After bringing into the cellar I calibrated the ph meter and took some readings. The Cab Sauv has started fermentation. I double checked the TA readings.. They will definitely need adjusted upward.


----------



## Rocky (May 6, 2013)

Doug, I would have to say that the SGs are on the low side except for the Malbec and the Pinot Noir. Not to worry. I have had a similar experience with juice that I picked up at L'Uva Bella and it all worked out (although the Brunello was a bear and a half!)


----------



## Runningwolf (May 6, 2013)

Doug, I ended up adding one pound of sugar to each pail for a bit more abv and stabilization in the finished product. I also added 33 grams of tataric acid to each pail.


----------



## robie (May 6, 2013)

I'd double check the pH reading for the Cab/Sav. That's really, really low, which means the TA would be very, very high. Such a wine may not be a good candidate for MLF.


It's best to make as many adjustments as possible BEFORE you start fermenting.


----------



## ffemt128 (May 6, 2013)

I did double check the reading on the Cab as it seemed very low. The low sg leaves me to believe that fermentation has been under way with that one for some time. I'll check again tomorrow.


----------



## robie (May 6, 2013)

ffemt128 said:


> I did double check the reading on the Cab as it seemed very low. The low sg leaves me to believe that fermentation has been under way with that one for some time. I'll check again tomorrow.



I agree. 1.060 is very low for any cab/sav.


----------



## petey (May 7, 2013)

robie said:


> I agree. 1.060 is very low for any cab/sav.



Just racked my Chilean must. Only 5 days after pitching yeast. Sg @ 1.010 and still berry active


----------



## mvcrews (May 8, 2013)

If it's fermenting already and you didn't degas then your pH readings aren't accurate and should be disregarded.


----------



## mvcrews (May 8, 2013)

robie said:


> I'd double check the pH reading for the Cab/Sav. That's really, really low, which means the TA would be very, very high. Such a wine may not be a good candidate for MLF.
> fermenting.



Why wouldn't you put a red wine through mlf? MLF would only help to raise the pH and lower the TA, both of which are desirable outcomes. While at that pH MLF would be a struggle, even if the bacteria failed at first there are steps you can take to deacidify (blending, cold stabilizing, or chemically dropping acid) that would make it a more suitable environment for them. Kits withstanding, I've never heard of a red wine that wasn't a good candidate for mlf.


----------



## Runningwolf (May 8, 2013)

mvcrews said:


> If it's fermenting already and you didn't degas then your pH readings aren't accurate and should be disregarded.


 Why would the ph be different? I understand the sg/brix being different but didn't realize it would effect the ph.


----------



## mvcrews (May 8, 2013)

Dissolved c02 in your wine will take the form of carbonic acid and throw off the reading. Same is true for carbonated vs still water.


----------



## sdelli (May 8, 2013)

Just picked up my Chilean juice tonight. Here is what I got....

Malbec SG=1.082 Ph=3.70 TA= 3.5 Used BM45 Yeast Re-Hydrated
Merlot SG=1.088 Ph=3.70 TA=4.0 Used GRE Yeast Re-Hydrated

Acid is low but not surprised..... I will raise it up after malolactic .......


----------



## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2013)

sdelli said:


> Just picked up my Chilean juice tonight. Here is what I got....
> 
> Malbec SG=1.082 Ph=3.70 TA= 3.5 Used BM45 Yeast Re-Hydrated
> Merlot SG=1.088 Ph=3.70 TA=4.0 Used GRE Yeast Re-Hydrated
> ...




Where did you buy?


----------



## sdelli (May 8, 2013)

California wine grapes in Downtown Detroit.


----------



## ffemt128 (May 14, 2013)

I checked SG's yesterday. All the reds were at or below 1.000 so I started transferring into carboys. I managed to get 2 done last night and I'll get the other 3 this evening.

The whites were sitting around 1.016. I'll transfer those on Thursday or Friday.


----------



## sdelli (May 14, 2013)

SG's are running around 1.030 on both of mine after 5 days... Added a dose of nutrients to both for a quick recharge.....


----------



## Marco (May 14, 2013)

What nutrients did you use?


----------



## sdelli (May 14, 2013)

Go Ferm at start and two doses of Fermaid-K... Here is a good link to read and print.

http://www.morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/whydra.pdf


----------



## ffemt128 (May 16, 2013)

All juice has been transferred to carboys. Now the wait. I'll rack in about 3-4 weeks. At that point the majority of any sediment should have fallen out. After that racking, I need to decide on oak for each of the reds.


----------



## Lucky_lefty (May 17, 2013)

I have transferred my wine to the carboy, and I added the wooden cubes. How long does it have to stay in there? I am making Chilean Sharh,


----------



## FABulousWines (May 17, 2013)

Lucky_lefty said:


> I have transferred my wine to the carboy, and I added the wooden cubes. How long does it have to stay in there? I am making Chilean Sharh,



General rule of thumb is to rack from secondary when the SG is lower than 1.000 and doesn't change for 2 or 3 days. How long that will take depends on many factors not the least of which is the current SG.


----------



## Lucky_lefty (May 17, 2013)

so I need to check the SG? I thought it was in the final stage. I will check and of lower than 1.000 I bottle it?


----------



## FABulousWines (May 17, 2013)

Where in the process are you? From your earlier post I was assuming perhaps incorrectly, that you were transferring from primary to secondary (carboy) for final fermentation. If the fermentation is complete (via SG not going any lower), then you will want to wait until clear before you bottle. Also, if you are adding oak you may want to age for a while. Sample it periodically and see where you like it. Don't rush it.


----------



## Lucky_lefty (May 17, 2013)

I racked it once after adding everything in the bucket, I have it in the carboy with the oak cubes.


----------



## sdelli (May 17, 2013)

So it has been 9 days that my Chilean wine has been in primary fermentation. I was going to take a stab at adjusting the acid and let it run a few more days. But as we all have been shown it is always better to make acid adjustments before starting the primary.... But here is the crazy thing that I wonder if someone can help me make sense of..... At day 9 My ph is at 3.55 and TA is at 6.8 on both wines. sg is at 1.01 so will leave it for a couple more days..... But look at the initial readings before initiating the primary. 

Malbec SG=1.082 Ph=3.70 TA= 3.5 Used BM45 Yeast Re-Hydrated
Merlot SG=1.088 Ph=3.70 TA=4.0 Used GRE Yeast Re-Hydrated

How did the TA recover so well? I swore I was gonna need some tartaric added to it by the levels found at opening! Makes me wonder about making quick judgements of adjustment at the primary in future makings....


----------



## sdelli (May 19, 2013)

Well... Been 11 days now and both Malbec and Merlot have been transferred to secondary fermentation. Added 1 lbs. of raisins and 4 oz. Oak Tannin as well to both. Still very active in the carboys too! I plan on leaving it for a week and starting MLF.
Malbec SG=.992 Ph=3.30 TA=7.2
Merlot SG=.994 Ph=3.35 TA=7.2


----------



## ffemt128 (May 21, 2013)

I racked my last bucket of Cab Sauv this afternoon into a carboy. I have 52 gallons of Chilean juice fermenting away. Sometime around Father's Day I'll rack everything off sediment and add oak.


----------



## sdelli (May 21, 2013)

Wow ffemt.... Nice!


----------



## ffemt128 (May 21, 2013)

sdelli said:


> Wow ffemt.... Nice!





I need to decide on oak for each one. I'm thinking either French or Hungarian for the carmenere and malbec. The pinot noir will get american and the cab sauv will likely be a blend of american and French. Oh, forgot the barbera which will be american and the syrah I'm up in the air on. Last petite syrah I did american spirals and it turned out well.


----------



## sdelli (May 21, 2013)

ffemt128 said:


> I need to decide on oak for each one. I'm thinking either French or Hungarian for the carmenere and malbec. The pinot noir will get american and the cab sauv will likely be a blend of american and French. Oh, forgot the barbera which will be american and the syrah I'm up in the air on. Last petite syrah I did american spirals and it turned out well.



Sounds like it is time for you to graduate to barrels if you have not already.


----------



## ffemt128 (May 21, 2013)

sdelli said:


> Sounds like it is time for you to graduate to barrels if you have not already.



Unfortunately, no room or $$ for barrels right now.


----------



## ffemt128 (Jun 9, 2013)

Between yesterday and this morning I racked all the Chilean Juice to clean carboys to get off the heavy lees and dosed with kmeta. I also oaked the reds as follows;

Pinot Noir - Medium American
Cabernet Sauvignon - Medium American
Syrah - Medium American
Barbera - Medium French
Malbec - Medium Hungarian
Carmenere - Medium Hungarian.​At this point I won't do any have to do anything with them until August. Going to be a long summer with little wine activity as it's a waiting period now.


----------



## sdelli (Jun 9, 2013)

Just curious.... What did these test out at? I already had to add some tartaric acid to my Chilean juice. Merlot seems fine but I think the Malbec might need one more dose.... Mine are in MLF right now for a few more weeks.....


----------



## bakervinyard (Jun 9, 2013)

*Mlf ?*



ffemt128 said:


> Between yesterday and this morning I racked all the Chilean Juice to clean carboys to get off the heavy lees and dosed with kmeta. I also oaked the reds as follows;
> 
> Pinot Noir - Medium American
> Cabernet Sauvignon - Medium American
> ...



Did You do MLF on them? I MLF my Chielean Merlot, Not sure on my Pinot, taste good the way it is. Bakervinyard


----------



## ShawnDTurner (Jun 9, 2013)

With my chilean Pinot Noir juice buckets and Pinot Noir grapes, that is currently fermenting. I added oak powder at the onset of fermentation. A few days later I added MFT oak chips. This allows me to build structure. Once the must hits 1 brix or below I will be adding Malo Nutes, malo Bacteria and MFT oak Beans.
PH before starting 3.35 TA .59 I am happy with these numbers before Malo. The starting S.G. was 1.070 I raised it to 1.100. I like my Pinot Noir at around 13%. You should MLF your Pinot Noir, I would. The difference between GAMAY and PINOT is MLF. So if you do not MLF you will virtually have GAMAY. If you like that sort of thing. Good on you. Cheers.


----------



## ffemt128 (Jun 10, 2013)

sdelli said:


> Just curious.... What did these test out at? I already had to add some tartaric acid to my Chilean juice. Merlot seems fine but I think the Malbec might need one more dose.... Mine are in MLF right now for a few more weeks.....


 

I didn't check the TA on them. Checked initial Ph's. I believe I posted those earlier on. I'll check and if not I'll update later.


----------



## ffemt128 (Jun 10, 2013)

bakervinyard said:


> Did You do MLF on them? I MLF my Chielean Merlot, Not sure on my Pinot, taste good the way it is. Bakervinyard


 


ShawnDTurner said:


> With my chilean Pinot Noir juice buckets and Pinot Noir grapes, that is currently fermenting. I added oak powder at the onset of fermentation. A few days later I added MFT oak chips. This allows me to build structure. Once the must hits 1 brix or below I will be adding Malo Nutes, malo Bacteria and MFT oak Beans.
> PH before starting 3.35 TA .59 I am happy with these numbers before Malo. The starting S.G. was 1.070 I raised it to 1.100. I like my Pinot Noir at around 13%. You should MLF your Pinot Noir, I would. The difference between GAMAY and PINOT is MLF. So if you do not MLF you will virtually have GAMAY. If you like that sort of thing. Good on you. Cheers.


 

I did not do MLF on these. Considered it. Maybe next year's batch.


----------



## DoctorCAD (Jun 10, 2013)

ShawnDTurner said:


> With my chilean Pinot Noir juice buckets and Pinot Noir grapes, that is currently fermenting. I added oak powder at the onset of fermentation. A few days later I added MFT oak chips. This allows me to build structure. Once the must hits 1 brix or below I will be adding Malo Nutes, malo Bacteria and MFT oak Beans.
> PH before starting 3.35 TA .59 I am happy with these numbers before Malo. The starting S.G. was 1.070 I raised it to 1.100. I like my Pinot Noir at around 13%. You should MLF your Pinot Noir, I would. The difference between GAMAY and PINOT is MLF. So if you do not MLF you will virtually have GAMAY. If you like that sort of thing. Good on you. Cheers.



Gamay is a specific type of grape, Pinot Noir is a specific type of grape. Saying MLF is the only difference is not correct.


----------



## ShawnDTurner (Jun 10, 2013)

It is well known that gamay and pinot noir are similar in flavor and aroma profile. Until you take pinot noir through MLF, gamay falls apart when it undergoes mlf this is why gamay traditionally does not under go.


----------



## ffemt128 (Jan 17, 2014)

I racked my Chilean reds last night. I have to say I'm quite dissappointed in the Barbera that I picked up from a place in Ohio. It tastes watery with no real discenable flavors. I processed the same way as I did the prior year (excellet by the way) used American/french oak on it as I did in the past. Just not happy. I added a touch more oak and will sample again in a month. 

On another note, The Syrah, Malbec and Cab Sav were quite good at 8 months. I thought the Malbec could use some more oak so I added another oz of Med Hungarian. The Pinot Noir was good and I did not rack the Carmenere just yet.

Any ideas on the Barbera?


----------



## sdelli (Jan 17, 2014)

More barrel time will concentrate it up a little more fore you.... I talked to M&M yesterday about Chilean juices... They handle the grapes too. I plan on using about 36lbs. Of grapes in each bucket of juice this year to help prevent that juice bucket thinning effect.


----------



## Runningwolf (Jan 17, 2014)

Why not try blending it in with the others. Try some trails. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Wine Making mobile app


----------



## ffemt128 (Jan 17, 2014)

sdelli said:


> More barrel time will concentrate it up a little more fore you.... I talked to M&M yesterday about Chilean juices... They handle the grapes too. I plan on using about 36lbs. Of grapes in each bucket of juice this year to help prevent that juice bucket thinning effect.


 
I thought about that last night when I was racking. I may be getting a bigger press soon and thought about getting a lug of grapes for each bucket. Actually considering the same for my PA Juices in the fall. Pick up some grapes in addition to the pressed juice.



Runningwolf said:


> Why not try blending it in with the others. Try some trails.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Wine Making mobile app


 
That too is an option. I'm going to give it another month on the oak I added and see how it tastes then. I'm in no real hurry to bottle just yet.


----------

