# Is my wine fermenting? And is this floating stuff a problem?



## Trishatk (Sep 10, 2019)

Hi there!

Bear with me, this is my first try at making wine, and I have tried following my instructions as close as I can, but I checked my must after I added the rehydrated yeast about 20 hours ago, and there were no bubbles in the airlock, and something has formed at the top. There are a few bubbles in the formation, but I’m wondering if I’ve screwed this up already. Can anyone tell me if this is normal, and if not, is it fixable?

Thanks!


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## M38A1 (Sep 10, 2019)

That looks reasonably normal to me...

A lot depends on the temperature and what type of yeast you are using in how quickly/forcefully the bubbles and fermentation process is. Most of my stuff takes about 12-24 hours to get rolling, and it usually starts like what I see in your pics. Then it sort of does it's thing and takes off. The fact you aren't seeing bubbles in the airlock is simply because the fermentation hasn't really taken off yet and it takes a lot to push out the existing air in the top of the PF/airlock mechanism. Even when it's rolling along, mine only bubble about every six to 10 seconds.

One thing I do is daily give it a stir to introduce oxygen to the must and drive off some CO2 in the process.

Just relax and let it do it's thing. If it's not rolling in another couple days, report back...


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## Trishatk (Sep 10, 2019)

M38A1:

Thanks so much for taking the time to give some input. That makes me feel much better, I just wanted to make sure I’m not completely off base here. Thanks again!!


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## Scooter68 (Sep 10, 2019)

Just one recommendation - Skip the Lid and airlock. 
The plastic lids on most fermentation containers are a real pain to put on and take off and really don't seal all that well. (That's why the airlock doesn't seem to show much activity. )

Many folks just put a towel or thin cloth (Like a single layer of muslin cloth over the top and tie it down (to keep out Fruit Flies, bugs, dust and family pets) 

If you want to check this out Wet down the lid seal ring well before snapping it back on and watch the airlock then. It will show activity quite nicely.....until seal dries out again.
So you can save some time and effort just using a cloth and tie it down. 

The smell will tell you all you need to know - that and the bubbling foam. (Normally when I stir my batches the foam bubbles up nicely and then settles down after covering up the bucket.) The amount of foam depends on the yeast type to a large degree.


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## Trishatk (Sep 10, 2019)

Thanks Scooter68! Good to know, I may just try that because the lid is a huge pain. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it!


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## Scooter68 (Sep 11, 2019)

Oh and welcome to the forum. There's lots of information in the various sections and threads. If you don't find the answers you need there - just do what you did this time. There is whole lotta experience in both home wine making and actual winery experience in the members on here. Just beware of 'instructional' You Tube videos when it comes to wine making.


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## M38A1 (Sep 11, 2019)

I'll second what Scooter said - skip the lid on your primary fermenter vessel. I learned that trick here and in all my batches simply put a large towel over the top during fermentation. Just be careful to not let the towel drop into the top of the contents if there's little headspace. Been there - Done that. lol.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 11, 2019)

M38A1 said:


> I'll second what Scooter said - skip the lid on your primary fermenter vessel. I learned that trick here and in all my batches simply put a large towel over the top during fermentation. Just be careful to not let the towel drop into the top of the contents if there's little headspace. Been there - Done that. lol.



I can third what Scooter said. I will usually just lay the lid on top without snapping it down for the first week. Then, if I’m feeling froggy, I’ll snap the lid down and place an airlock on it till the fermentation is done.


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## Jal5 (Sep 11, 2019)

I use the towel too and get a bunch of paperclips the “bulldog”
Kind to hold the towel just above the must by clipping towel to the ridge on the sides of the pail. 
Joe


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## Jal5 (Sep 11, 2019)




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## Trishatk (Sep 11, 2019)

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate it! Good news, you were all right and it’s really taken off now. I put the airlock back on tonight just for fun and it’s busy with bubbles. The bag with the skins and pulp is full of bubbles and trying to float to the top too. I’ve been giving it a stir and poking it back down a couple times a day so far. Thanks again for the help, I hope this first go at making wine turns out okay!


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## Scooter68 (Sep 11, 2019)

That's the way -keep pushing that bag of of skins and pulp back in.

By the way what variety of grapes or fruit is that?


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## Trishatk (Sep 12, 2019)

Scooter68 said:


> That's the way -keep pushing that bag of of skins and pulp back in.
> 
> By the way what variety of grapes or fruit is that?



Ha, good question! I’m pretty certain they are Concord grapes, from the googling I’ve done. We just moved to this new house and it had a mess of grapes in the back yard. They are purple and smaller with lots of seeds, the skin is pretty tough and the pulp is a very strange texture, like almost chewy or gelatinous. The pulp doesn’t crush or break down much. They are so delicious though, they taste just like Welch’s grape juice, but it’s a shame they don’t make good table grapes.

I know from what I’ve read concords are not the best wine grapes, but it seemed like my best option. I hope by the time I can get the acidity taken care of, maybe it will still be good wine. I’m anxiously awaiting getting the first taste!


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## Scooter68 (Sep 12, 2019)

You have them so.... you make use of them. Concords as I remember are an interesting flavor. Just under the skin is a very sweet layer then the majority of the pulp is not so sweet and yes... lots of seeds. But It's been awhile since I've had fresh Concords so perhaps someone else can help identify.

In any case hope that batch turns out well for you. Keep us posted on progress.


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## M38A1 (Sep 24, 2019)

Any updates for us?


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## Trishatk (Sep 25, 2019)

Actually, I’ve been meaning to follow up! Primary fermentation went well, rolled along for about a week, I transferred to a couple carboys, but I ended up racking it already last weekend because there was about 1/2”-1” of the brown yeast sludge at the bottom of both carboys. It’s really clearing up well, but I’m a little unsure what to do now. I was hardly seeing any bubbles in airlock before I racked it, and now I’m not seeing any. Is that okay? I have them on a dark ledge that leads to the basement, so it’s probably about 70 degrees there, but I thought that was okay for whites and blushes? Any suggestions?


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## CDrew (Sep 25, 2019)

Good job! You got through fermentation and into carboys. It's already a win. I'd let it sit awhile 3-4 weeks and rack again and sulfite. I don't have specific Concord grape knowledge though. But you eliminated head space and sounds like your fermentation went well, so good to go! 70F sounds fine, and it will be colder this winter-also fine.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 25, 2019)

When you racked either time did you add and Potassium metabisulfite to the wine? At the end of the fermentation you need to add it to help protect the wine.


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## Trishatk (Sep 25, 2019)

CDrew said:


> Good job! You got through fermentation and into carboys. It's already a win. I'd let it sit awhile 3-4 weeks and rack again and sulfite. I don't have specific Concord grape knowledge though. But you eliminated head space and sounds like your fermentation went well, so good to go! 70F sounds fine, and it will be colder this winter-also fine.



Thanks! Good to know I still haven’t ruined it it yet (which is still shocking to me!). Thanks for your response!


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## Trishatk (Sep 25, 2019)

Scooter68 said:


> When you racked either time did you add and Potassium metabisulfite to the wine? At the end of the fermentation you need to add it to help protect the wine.



Hi Scooter!
I did add a campden tablet and potassium bicarbonate to help with acid when I racked the first time, and the 2nd racking, I split one campden tablet between the 4 gallons. I’ve heard contradicting things with using campden tablets/potassium metabisulfite when racking, but overall most people seem to recommend it. What do you do?

On the bright side, I tried a bit when I racked it, and it tastes great! Just like dry wine, but it does have a good flavor. And it smells great, too.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 25, 2019)

IF you want to invest in the hardware to measure the SO2 content of your wine you can figure out exactly how much K-Meta (Campden Tablet) you need to add. A little too much is not a big deal If you age the wine you are going to want to make sure you have enough K-Meta in there. Without the equipment to take measurements I just go on an accepted standard of 1/8 tsp of K-meta at each 3 month racking time for my 3 gallon batches. (Campden tablet dosage is 1 tablet per gallon) Some folks go lighter than that but again this is one of those areas where there are differences of opinion. I guess unless (or until) you lose a batch to spoilage going even lighter than the recommended dosage on most bottles - no harm no foul. (Most bottles state 1/4 tsp per 5 or 6 gallons (Depending on the strength of what's in that bottle)

As for the bicarbonate. I would go very lightly. A new wine is normally going to be pretty acidic due to the CO2 in there. (same as bottle coke/pepsi etc) Also dose at about half what you think you need and wait at least a day or two and then check it again. In reality I have never adjusted the acidity of my wines after they ferment. I figure if I started them out at the right point - then they are what they are when it's all said and done. 

GREAT that you like it as a new wine. Most new wine has a fair amount of bite to it due to the CO2 and other factors. A lot of that bite and sharpness goes away over time. That's why aging is so important. Being your first wine, whenever you do decide to bottle it. I would try to save several bottles for 1, 2, 3 years and do a little test. It's amazing how they mellow out over time.

When you going to start another batch? And ... what variety will that be? It's apple season in many places right now and an Apple wine is fantastic. They are great as a dry or slightly sweet wine.


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## Trishatk (Sep 30, 2019)

Scooter68 said:


> IF you want to invest in the hardware to measure the SO2 content of your wine you can figure out exactly how much K-Meta (Campden Tablet) you need to add. A little too much is not a big deal If you age the wine you are going to want to make sure you have enough K-Meta in there. Without the equipment to take measurements I just go on an accepted standard of 1/8 tsp of K-meta at each 3 month racking time for my 3 gallon batches. (Campden tablet dosage is 1 tablet per gallon) Some folks go lighter than that but again this is one of those areas where there are differences of opinion. I guess unless (or until) you lose a batch to spoilage going even lighter than the recommended dosage on most bottles - no harm no foul. (Most bottles state 1/4 tsp per 5 or 6 gallons (Depending on the strength of what's in that bottle)
> 
> As for the bicarbonate. I would go very lightly. A new wine is normally going to be pretty acidic due to the CO2 in there. (same as bottle coke/pepsi etc) Also dose at about half what you think you need and wait at least a day or two and then check it again. In reality I have never adjusted the acidity of my wines after they ferment. I figure if I started them out at the right point - then they are what they are when it's all said and done.
> 
> ...



Thanks Scooter!

I figured I would just do a batch a year, when we have grapes, but now I do kind of want to try something else.. apple wine sounds great! Is the process still pretty similar?

Also, do you think it’s fine that the airlock really isn’t bubbling? I’m trying to decide if I should be worried and switch something up, or if it’s still okay just hanging out for the next couple months.


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## gsf77 (Oct 2, 2019)

Trish - be warned - you fixing to get advice from a newbie; From what I've read on here you don't need to be worrying about the airlock not bubbling. Nor can you use that fact to determine whether or not the fermentation is still active.


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## Trishatk (Oct 2, 2019)

gsf77 said:


> Trish - be warned - you fixing to get advice from a newbie; From what I've read on here you don't need to be worrying about the airlock not bubbling. Nor can you use that fact to determine whether or not the fermentation is still active.



Thank you! Newbie - or not - I appreciate all the advice, I’ll take what I can get! Maybe my next batch, or third batch, I’ll feel more confident with what I’m doing. My motto is - just don’t screw it up too bad!


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## gsf77 (Oct 7, 2019)

I am more addicted to making wine than I am of drinking it. I love to give bottles to friends and have them brag about how good it is. Of course it's all a matter of personal taste. Btw, we do love sitting outside right before dark and sipping on a glass  Enjoy your winemaking, keep notes, and just remember there's always the next batch


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## Scooter68 (Oct 8, 2019)

To answer your question about Apple wine.... it depends. Making wine (Or hard cider) from fresh apples is a lot of work. OR if you can go to an orchard that presses their apples and buy it without additives (other than ascorbic acid) That's the easiest route.

With fresh apples you need to core them, press them (Or use a *slow juice*r like an Omega Juicer)

Also you can just make hard apple cider with the apple juice or apples but adding zero sugar, just add a yeast. OR add sugar to get the ABV up into the wine range of 10% or higher.
Either way Apple Cider or Apple Wine are both great. Some folks like it dry some slightly sweet. Either way is a win.

On the bubbling... After fermentation is over the only bubbling should be one of two things, A MLF (MaLoactic Fermentation) and/or CO2 gassing off. Both are fine for Grape wines and completely normal. That bubbling may stop and start but not to worry if you see nothing other than perhaps a raised 'float' in your airlock. 

Just keep up the 3 month racking schedule for 9-12 months and you should have a wine ready to bottle. (Remember to add K-meta at racking time - normal dosage is 1/4 (one fourth) teaspoon for 6 gallons)


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## Crm (Oct 9, 2019)

I added a packet of yeast to six gallons of juice (Zin) about two days ago and no action yet. 

Should I be concerned? What should I do?

Thanks.


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## bshef (Oct 9, 2019)

Keep a check with your hydrometer. I had a batch of Cab Sav juice that never showed a sign of fermentation but the SG dropped right on schedule.


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## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

Crm said:


> I added a packet of yeast to six gallons of juice (Zin) about two days ago and no action yet.
> 
> Should I be concerned? What should I do?
> 
> Thanks.



I can't say because I'm new to this myself, but you might want to give a bit more info, such as temp, yeast used, the juice used (was it a pail you bought or was it pressed by yourself...), prep, etc.

When I started my Pinot Grigio, I started with a 6 gallon pail of Lodi juice, with a SG of 1.090. I added a 1/4 tsp of K-meta then waited 24 hr to pitch the yeast. In less than 24 hrs, fermentation was going really strong.

When I did a kit wine, I just added sugar and water to the extract, pitched the yeast. 24 hrs later, when I checked, there was activity.. not much, but you could see bubbles coming up from the must.

Neither of the above were under airlock during primary fermentation. But were started in a 7.9 gal bucket with a towel over the top to keep dust and bugs out.

Others could probably tell you better based on the info you post, but without knowing more detail. But if it were me, I'd stir the must to make sure there was oxygen in the must and use a yeast starter, instead of just pitching the dry yeast. That way you know the yeast is alive when you pitch it.

It hasn't happened to me with wine yeast, but when I've baked bread, I have had bad packets of yeast..


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## bshef (Oct 9, 2019)

Yes, I forgot to add, I had that juice in a bucket, covered with a towel, and stirred twice a day. I never even saw a bubble from the must.


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## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

bshef said:


> Yes, I forgot to add, I had that juice in a bucket, covered with a towel, and stirred twice a day. I never even saw a bubble from the must.



Humm. Try hydrating this.. add about a 1/2 cup of water with a tsp of sugar in a glass then pitch your dry yeast in there.. wait about 10 to 15 mins and see if you've yeast activity. If you do, you know the yeast is good, then pitch it into your must. This way, you know the issue isn't the yeast.


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## bshef (Oct 9, 2019)

I expect my must bubbled when I wasn't looking. The SG dropped on schedule so I quit worrying.


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## crabjoe (Oct 9, 2019)

P


bshef said:


> I expect my must bubbled when I wasn't looking. The SG dropped on schedule so I quit worrying.



Perfect! I forgot I've read others say even with no visible activity, they had fermentation going.. and they only knew from taking hydrometer reading. I had completely forgotten about that because I hadn't experienced it myself. Thanks for the reminder!!

Good luck with the wine!!


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## Steve Wargo (Oct 9, 2019)

Crm said:


> I added a packet of yeast to six gallons of juice (Zin) about two days ago and no action yet.
> 
> Should I be concerned? What should I do?
> 
> Thanks.


What's the temperature of the wine must?


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## Trishatk (Jan 1, 2020)

Hello there! Back with some more questions - I racked my wine again today, and it still seems to be doing well! So I’m looking towards the nexts steps which will either be racking again or bottling. It’s cleared up a lot, but still has farther to go and I’m thinking it should result in some sediment in the next couple months. How many times do you usually rack? So far, mine has gone from primary fermentation bucket to carboy, and then racked twice after that. Will it be a problem to rack it at least one more time? Also, do you add k meta every time you rack? So far I have. 

Let’s say the wine clears up and I’m ready to start thinking about bottling. I’ll need to sweeten it up, so would I do that right before bottling? Is there anything else I should do/add at that point to make sure fermentation has stopped?

It’s getting close! Thanks again for all your help!


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## crabjoe (Jan 2, 2020)

Trishatk said:


> Hello there! Back with some more questions - I racked my wine again today, and it still seems to be doing well! So I’m looking towards the nexts steps which will either be racking again or bottling. It’s cleared up a lot, but still has farther to go and I’m thinking it should result in some sediment in the next couple months. How many times do you usually rack? So far, mine has gone from primary fermentation bucket to carboy, and then racked twice after that. Will it be a problem to rack it at least one more time? Also, do you add k meta every time you rack? So far I have.
> 
> Let’s say the wine clears up and I’m ready to start thinking about bottling. I’ll need to sweeten it up, so would I do that right before bottling? Is there anything else I should do/add at that point to make sure fermentation has stopped?
> 
> It’s getting close! Thanks again for all your help!



If you get more sediment, rack it again. As for adding Kmeta, use the 3 month rule, unless you have to equipment to test the level.

When you're ready to bottle, make sure to add sobate since you'll be sweetening it up some... and depending on when the last time you added Kmeta, you might need to dose that too. 

BTW, after you're added sorbate and sweetened, I'd wait a few days before bottling to make sure fermentation doesn't start up again...

Oh... one other thing... congratulations on your patience.. I started making wine in September and because I've been so impatient, I've used fining agents and have bottled multiple batches ready. I think I've bottled like around 150 bottles already.. In fact I was cleaning bottles tonight to bottle my Pinot Grigio, which I started from juice ... It'll get bottled tomorrow.. That one I started back in mid September.


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## Steve Wargo (Jan 2, 2020)

You can bottle your concord wine "as is" once you feel it's cleared. If you want to drink your wine sweeter, pour the bottle of wine into a decanter before you are ready to drink, and add some sugar, stir the wine in the decanter to dissolve it, and taste to your liking. Then Chill and serve. That way you won't have to add Potassium Sorbate "another chemical" to your wine. I also make concord wine along with a few other varieties. 

Another tasty option is to mix/blend in the decanter concord wine with a less expensive bottle (winking owl Aldi $2.95) of merlot. 1 part concord wine and 3 parts of the merlot taste great. 

Have fun with your wine. You are doing well. Also, try Lalvin 71b yeast the next time you ferment your concord grapes. It is great with concord juice. leaves it fruity and ready to drink sooner. 

As far as your Apple wine thought. Buy two gallons of apple juice (no additives) citric acid is ok if it's an ingredient. Pour into a 5-gallon bucket, add 3 tsp pectic enzyme(it helps it clear the wine quicker), add 5 cups of sugar, 6 cups if you want a little higher alcohol content and stir to dissolve. If you have molasses add about 8 oz and stir, Slightly bruise/crack 15 whole peppercorns and add those to the primary. For apple wine, I use Lalvin EC1118, because Lalvin 71B eats Malic acid, Malic is where you get that apple taste. EC1118 is a Champagne yeast and will power through the fermentation without requiring help from starter wine additives. Also if you have them, peel and slice up a banana and add to the primary, or dice a couple of handful of raisins. Follow the same steps as you did with your original concord wine, Ferment, Move to Carboy, rack, rack, when clear then bottle. Good winemaking.


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## bshef (Jan 2, 2020)

Concord can have a strong taste and aging is supposed to help. On your next batch, use the skins for a second run and add white grape juice to enhance. Much milder and less aging required.


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## Trishatk (Jun 17, 2020)

Alright I think I’m nearing the end. These pictures almost make the wine look clearer that it looks in person, and I am worried that it’s still a little too cloudy to bottle, but there is hardly any sediment after 3 months sitting. Will stabilizing help? Or is there something else I should do? Also any advice/guidance on stabilizing and ending fermentation before I sweeten and bottle? I am still very unsure about this process. Any guidance or resources are greatly appreciated!


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## sour_grapes (Jun 17, 2020)

I agree that it looks pretty clear, but not perfectly clear. I think you have two equally valid options:
1. Bottle it as is, knowing that your wine won't be super duper clear, but that is okay!
2. Try some fining agents. Go to your local home-brew store (LHBS) or online source and get something like SuperKleer or other brand name. What you want is a two-part treatment of chitosan and kieselsol.

Congratulations on your patience!


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## Trishatk (Jun 19, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> I agree that it looks pretty clear, but not perfectly clear. I think you have two equally valid options:
> 1. Bottle it as is, knowing that your wine won't be super duper clear, but that is okay!
> 2. Try some fining agents. Go to your local home-brew store (LHBS) or online source and get something like SuperKleer or other brand name. What you want is a two-part treatment of chitosan and kieselsol.
> 
> Congratulations on your patience!


Thank you for your response! I appreciate it and will try our local brew store. Thanks!


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## cmason1957 (Jun 19, 2020)

Trishatk said:


> Thank you for your response! I appreciate it and will try our local brew store. Thanks!



If you can't find SuperKleer, the name may have changed to be DualFine. Same product, different name to protect the guilty, I think. If worst comes to worst, you can buy individual bottles of kieselsol and chitosan, if you do that, be sure to write on the bottles which is which.


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