# Blackberry Wine



## univity (May 22, 2008)

I started some blackberry wine around early Jan with a bunch of frozen blackberries I picked over the summer. I am not sure if it is good to use frozen ones that are then thawed and mashed into juicy - got a lot more juice than I expected from them, which is a good thing. I have made a bunch of kits but thisis my first from-scratch wine. I just racked it again and gave it a taste - it seems pretty harsh right now - is that normal? Should I do anything to induce malolactic fermentation (sp?) - from what I am tasting and reading that is what needs to happen - that and time.


Here is basically what I did - loosely followed a recipe


1. I let the juice and the berries (in straining bag) hang out in primary fermenter with crushed campden for a day
2. Put in yeast, nutrient, some acid blend, sugar til it was about 1.08sg - stirred a little every day - took about 3 days to get all bubbly
3. Once it hit 1.04 I racked it to carboy with some stabilizer - after about a week-ish it stopped bubbling and was at .998sg - I just let it chil
4. I just racked it to basically siphon off the stuff on the bottom and taste it - its a bit dry and harsh (kinda burns a little as it goes down) - I want it to be a semi sweet wine
5. I added about 3/4 cup sugar (to sweeten a bit)and stabilizer and degassed it a bit - how long should I let it sit?




I also have a Pumkin Spice wine in pretty much the same situation (my base 'fruit' was pumkin pie filling, cinnamon sticks, raising, fresh ginger root - found the recipe online)


I used corn sugar as the sugar - what kind of sugar should I use?


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## Wade E (May 22, 2008)

Corn sugar is OK but I usually use plain old table sugar. If the Blackberry wine is just harsh then it just needs time which typically 6 months to a year will make quite a difference. If it tastes really tart then that would be acid in which you could do 1 of a few things. If you have added k-meta or campden after starting fermentation then that will rule out Malo-lactic fermentation. What you can do is submit your wine to very cool temps for a few months to cold stabilize the wine, this will make your wine drop wine diamonds to the bottom of the carboy. You could also try using Calcium Bi Carbonate to lower the acidity of your wine but before you do this get an acid test kit and see if this really needs doing.
At SG 1.04, what exactly did you add to this wine as adding k-meta or sorbate before a wine is done fermenting will not stop a fermentation. These chemicals are designed to stop re fermentation and would only work to stop a fermentation in very excessive doses which we would not encourage you adding to your wine.


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## touchtoomuch (May 22, 2008)

part of the harshness is probably because you added acid. Blackberries generally are acidic enough that no acid additions are needed. Some recipes may call for it, but one should really test the must and see first...The other part is the fact that it is a young wine. Blackberry generally starts getting better at about 5 months and keeps getting better for approx a year...... Mine always tastes like rocket fuel at first and then all of the sudden after a few months, BAM it starts to change! AS far as Malolactic fermentation goes,,,, My understanding is that is for grape wines and shouldn't be done on fruit/country wines.....*Edited by: touchtoomuch *


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## Wade E (May 23, 2008)

Actually, Blackberry is 1 of the only country wines that can sometimes benefit from MLF due to its high concentration of malic acid but should not be done if any S02 has been added since fermentation.


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## NorthernWinos (May 23, 2008)

All this chatter about Blackberry Wine the resident Sommelier [me] went to the cellar and chose a Blackberry Wine to compliment tonight's dinner of tacos [what can I say, that's what's for dinner]

This wine had a Birthday in the bottle in March...It was a Vintners Harvest Blackberry Fruit Base and 2 bottles of WinExpert Red Grape Concentrate per 5 gallons....added were the 'Usual Cast of Characters' that we all add to our wines....this one was different. Upon completion of fermentation it had a distinct Sulfur smell...it was hard to get it past your nose for a few months....If you would decant it for a couple hours it was fine.

Now...it is a very nice wine, smells fruity, tastes fine...Going down real nice with dessert of chocolate [what can I say...haven't had time to go to the store lately...so it's chocolate for dessert]

Give your Blackberry wine some time...I thought this one was a 'dumper' for awhile....Now, it is very nice.

Have a friend from Hayward Wisconsin...he has a freezer with some Blackberries in it and wants to go shares on some wine....What would be an appropriate split????


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## Wade E (May 23, 2008)

If hes got enough to do a full batch then 1/2 would be my answer as Blackberries are expensive around my area. My friend has 27 new black currant bushes going and 12 more that are a year old already and wants me to ferment them after trying my Black currant wine. Probably wont have enough to do a batch next year but the following year should be promising and Ill be splitting whatever I make out of it in half with him..


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## NorthernWinos (May 23, 2008)

I was thinking half too....will run that by him and see what he thinks. 

He always brings maple syrup and wild rice....So it's all good.....a little Blackberry wine will be nice too.


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## univity (May 23, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice - I added acid cuz the recipe called for it but prolly shoulda tested it first (newb error 1) - I added the stabilizer after primary fermentation just because that is what I have done with the kit wine (prolly newb error 2) Thanks for the advice - so i learned something (I think) - sulphites prevent MF? (pls be gentile on my newbness- ive made about 15 kit wines but anyone who can follow instructions and clean/sanitize tools well can do that)


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## Wade E (May 24, 2008)

MLF is another fermentation so adding sulfites will hinder that. You stated in your 1st post that you stabilized at 1.04 you racked and stabilized, did you mean 1.004? There are no kits that tell you to add anything at 1.040 with maybe the exception of a port telling you to add some corn sugar to get a higher abv as ports do. Primary fermentation is the whole fermentation that takes place in Primary bucket and carboy until it reaches 1.000 or below. MLF or making a Sparkling wine where you add more yeast and or sugar into bottles and have the wine start fermenting again is considered a secondary fermentation.Hope this helps you. Im thinking you thought that being in the bucket was primary fermentation and being in the carboy was secondary ferm. When making country wines or any wines not from a kit you really should have a test kit as most recipes are adjusted to the fruits they bought and that can vary considerably from region to region and even from the same area. The fruits ripeness alone will require quite an adjustment in your addition to sugar and acid. Recipes are a guideline and not set in stone, you should have all the ingredients ready but may not need all or may need more depending on your test results.


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## univity (May 29, 2008)

Yes you are right on both counts - my numbers are off and my grasp of the winemaking vernacular is still a bit off.


Regarding sweetening: is it best to do that over time or wait til everything is aged and then sweeten shortly before bottling time?


I sweetened the blackberry once but I'm afraid that wasnt a good idea to do just yet.


The Pumkin wine recipe I found has you add sugar and stabilizer , wait 90 days, taste, add again (if not yet at desired sweetness). The only problem is since the wine is young it is hard to tell the sweetness over the bite that you get from the young wine. I started it last Nov and just tasted it over the weekend - the flavor is definitely getting much smoother - not sure if I should add some sugar now or wait another 3 months or so. It is very dry and I want it to be a sweeter wine. My goal is to have it bottled for Thanksgiving this year.


*Edited by: univity *


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## touchtoomuch (May 29, 2008)

sweetening it early isn't going to hurt it, however it is best to wait till it has aged 7 or 8 months or longer, and the harshness is gone, mellowed out and tasted good. Then you can sweeten to taste and not have to worry so much about adding too much sugar. It is best to age, then add sugar to almost where you like it and stop. It will mellow out further and could become to sweet for you if you sweeten exaclty how you like it too early. Hope you understand what i am saying since i kind of went around the world in 30 seconds. LOL


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## Wade E (May 29, 2008)

Again I agree with Touch. The sweetness of a wine will come through after the harshness has settled out unlike oaking a wine where the oak will fade into a wine, in other words, the fruit takes time to become more noticeable and thats why I would wait a few months minimum before back sweetening a wine.
*Edited by: wade *


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## univity (May 30, 2008)

Thanks - that's exactly what I was thinking.... after I already sweetened once - I will probably wait a while before sweetening again - I am sweetining in small increments so I dont make it too sweet.


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## univity (Aug 14, 2008)

So I just taste-tested the blackberry to see how it is doing. I cannot believe how much better it tastes - it is starting to taste really good! Especially the after taste - it is tart like blakberries - the initial taste is still a tad rough but doesnt have that "diesel fuel" taste that it had last time I tried it! I am starting to get excited about how it will turn out.


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## Wade E (Aug 14, 2008)

I dont think you can go wrong with Blackberries without trying to do so.


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## univity (Aug 15, 2008)

Yeah - I sweetened it once - prolly did it way too early - but it doesnt taste sweet at all - I dont think I am going to sweeten it again tho.


I am definitely going to have to go on a berry picking mission next summer - it is probably too late for this year - these berries were picked over last summer and frozen - then i just dumped the frozen berries in the straining bag and mashed them up with a potato masher - as they melted - VERY juicy


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## univity (Sep 10, 2008)

I just degas'd and filtered it - it is so dark and rich - and definintely goes down warm - I think that is a reminant of the "bite" that u get from young fruit wines? It tastes better each time I try it - Think I am going to let it sit for one more month then bottle it. I just used a coarse filter pad - was thinking i wasnt going to filter again - that coarse filter prolly good enough - any suggestions?


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## Wade E (Sep 10, 2008)

I typically dont even filter my reds unless did I did a really bad job of racking off lees the last time. I usually rack off lees 2-3 times after primary and if on the 3rd there is still lees then I filter but almost every time there isnt anything there after the 2nd racking.


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## joeswine (Sep 11, 2008)

i would never filter a black or raspberry wine just rack softly and allow the richness to come through,some otherdepending on there make up yes-but if you want to keep the integrate of the fruit don,t ..........in my oppion//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ,


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2008)

Univity:


Filtering is usually only done to remove any yeast that might still be in the wine prior to botteling it.
The reason for that, and I'm going to touch on this in a minute, is you don't want the remnent yeast to come alive again after you bottle your wine. Makes a holy mess in your cellar.


When I finally learned the rule of patience in this hobby, I found that after the first rack from the primary, racking again once a month is more than sufficient to "filter" your wines to anything less thanthan amicrobic level.
Neither I, nor any of my vino conspiritorshave any yeast alergiesand as such, I abandoned the filtering considerationsa long time ago.


I usually allow my fruit wines to sit for 2 to 3 months after backsweetening,in their 6 gallon carboys under water bungs before even thinking of botteling just to make sure that all fermentation is complete. It's what I consider part of the aging process.


This process has worked well for me and my wines.


Above all else though. Be patient. Don't rush your wines. They'll reward you better with gentle love than with hasty expectations.


Handyman


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## joeswine (Sep 14, 2008)

your quite right



http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&amp;ref=12


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## univity (Nov 5, 2008)

after letting it sit a while (mostly because work has been taking all my time), I tasted - its really starting to smooth out but still really tart. I decided I wanted to sweeten. I added sugar and stabilizer. I also added some campden tablets. Is testing and maintaining sulfite levels very important?


Also - when it comes to sweetening - a friend of mine who brews beer and the occasional hard cider says he sweetens his hard cider with splenda as there is no risk of fermentation starting back up if you use that. Any advice on that one?


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## Wade E (Nov 5, 2008)

Ive heard that splenda breaks down after a year or 2 in the bottle as does most artificial sugars.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2008)

All artificial sugars have a taste that's very discernable to people who don't use it.
Many people find that taste unappealing.
That taste will come out in your wine as well.
Bear that in mind when you give it away or invite someone else to taste with you.


As far as fermentation is concerned.
Fermentation requires yeast. Without yeast there is no fermentation.


While even the most vigorous of filtering cannot remove all the yeast, numerous rackings will remove so much of it that fermentation is a neglegable issue.
In addition, If you add your sorbates, that kills the small amout that remains as well.


Add what sugar you want, sparingly while tasteing, and then sorbate and you'll be just fine to bottle.


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## joeswine (Nov 6, 2008)

I,ll agree with that handyman,,,,,,thats why cane sugar is the sugar of choice for most wineries and home makers ,however back sweeting can be done by stopping the fermentation process at any given level ,Hensley keeping the fruitiness of the wine and the sweetness of the fruit /running out to dry and then back sweeting isn,t the only way...............


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## univity (Nov 7, 2008)

I figured as much - especially since it is pretty easy to prevent re-fermentation by adding stabilizer - but was very curious on what you guys know about artificial stuff


u all have smarts n stuff 


I usually use corn sugar as it is easier to dissolve - would cane sugar have a better flavor?


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## joeswine (Nov 8, 2008)

if you read back into the files you,ll fine mostly all of us create a simple syrup out of the cane sugar there fore its already in liquid state///2 parts sugar///one part water and boil to solution clears all the way and there you have it.........with know add flavor....just sweet


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2008)

Univity:


Nearly every one of us started out virtually the same way as you are.
Testing.
After you've done this a couple times you start to learn;
<UL>
<LI>that there are a few things that always remain the same and some that don't.</LI>
<LI>You learn which wines are reletivly easy to put together and what are not.</LI>
<LI>You also learn what typesyou like and what typesyou don't and that makes this hobby even easier and more enjoyable.</LI>[/list]


The common denomonater here is what you like more so than what "we" like.
Bearing in mind that we only know this stuff through the art of trial and error, we can advise you on things that we did that worked fine and things thatdidn't work out as well as we'd have liked them to but we can't tell you how to make a wine that pleases you.
That part you have to do by patience, trial and error your self and constantly tasting as any good chef would do, your creation.


If you take the time to read the posts on the wines you think you want to try, you'll find them very informative and often times, even humorous (like volcanic erruptions).


Main thing here though, is this.


Every one of us, after three or four runs at ths hobby,has labored valiently for months, sometimes even years,only to have to pour the friut of our labor, into the sink because something didn't go right.


The difference between the ones that know and the ones that don't is just pulling out another bucket, filling it with another $60.00 of fruit or grapes and starting all over again utilizing what we know against what we don't.
What we did as opposed to what we should have done.


Take your time, enjoy the experience and remember these couple base line things.


<LI>Don't rush any part of the process. If you don't have enough time to do it, wait till you do.</LI>
<LI>CLEAN EVERYTHING AGAIN, EVERY TIME YOU USE IT REGARDLESS OF HOW SHORT A TIME IT BEEN. Because of the long durrations of no attendance, mold will set in easilly even in hoses. Sterilize everything, every time.</LI>
<LI>Keep copious notes if you want to repeat your wine again including dates, temps, ingredientsand amounts. You'll be surprised how changing just one of those things will change everything.</LI>
<LI>Bear in mind that any recipe you start is not necessarilly what you will like. It's what the author likes. You need to adjust it to meet your tastes.</LI>
<LI>Add sugar a little at a time, tasteing as you go to get your desired taste. You can always add moreto get asweeter resultbut you sure can't take it back out if it's too much.</LI>
<LI>Keep your wines topped off. Top your wine with either an additive or displacement material to bring them to a point in your container with the least amount of *surface area*.</LI>
<LI>Degas often but if you're using any mechanical device, VERY, VERY DELECATLY!!!</LI>
<LI>Do not bottle till you sorbate. You want to aviod the BOOM!, BOOM!, BOOM's! at all costs.</LI>
<LI>Enjoy the entire process. If you do, your wines will become preciousto you.</LI>
Enjoy Dude.


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## Wade E (Nov 8, 2008)

Very well put handyman!!!!!!


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## joeswine (Nov 8, 2008)

I,ll buy that handyman and taste ,taste and taste........................................................................................


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## univity (Nov 10, 2008)

Nice post handyman - I have already thrown out a couple of batches. Luckily I tend to bea clean freak so clean supplies should not be a problem. Patience is where I lack, but luckily I get so busy with work I usually dont get to do wine stuff as much as I want - which is probably for the better.


Hey Joe - with the sugar solution - how long would taht syrup solution be good? Ordo u mix some up- sweeten some - then throw out what you dont use. What do you store it in?


Is it best to sweeten all at once - add some - stir - taste - repeat - or add some - stir - let sit a couple weeks - then taste - repeat if necessary.


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## Wade E (Nov 10, 2008)

I sweeten all at once but go a little less them what i want if its a young wine as the wine will be perceived as sweeter with time when the abv mellows out. Add sweetener a little at a time then taste and repeat if necessary.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2008)

Another way is to remove some of the wine, a quart if from 6 gals is good, heat 1/2 a cup of itin a micro and add your sugar to that (SLOWLY IN), stir it to disolve and thenadd it back to the 6 gal carboy.


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## joeswine (Nov 11, 2008)

each of us will find what works best for ourselves as for me ,i stabilize first them add my simple syrup a little at a time tasting all the while stirring it in then tasting when i think i&lt;am at the spot i want to be i stop and let it set a few days to maturate and settle in then taste again then decide good or does it require more,without over powering what it was i was trying to make in the first place............but thats just me.............................................................yes in a air tight jar it will keep until it start to form rock candy in the jar..............


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## univity (Dec 30, 2008)

I added some of the sugar mixture late nov and decided to let it sit a bit (plus really bsy with work and holidays) - I went back to it today and it is tasting really well so I am gonna bottle it - wow it isyummy


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2008)

Uni:
Don't be in any hurry to bottle if you don't need to. Your wines will age as well in the bulk carboys as they do in the smaller bottles so long as the temps are acceptable and the carboy is air tight.


After being at this hobbyand the fruit wines a little over a year, my patience for ithas grown considerably. I think after you've done this 6 or so times, in 6 gallon quantities, especially if you've tried different fruits, you tend to lose a lot of your "hurry up and taste it" desire.


Mine has simmered to the anticipation of next Christmas's Blackberry that I started end oflast November though to be honest, I still have 13 more 4 liter jugs and 15 bottles of othervarious fruit wines in storage.


The Blackberrymust is still in the 6 gallon carboy where I like to store it for 3 or 4 months before jugging &amp; bottling it in individule bottles &amp; jugs.




Lately, I've taken to bottling mywines from the carboy to four,4 liter jugs that I get my store bought grape wines in utilizing screw tops from George to seal them withand a half dozen additionalbottles.
The jugsstore well, aren't as heavy and awkward as the 6 gallon carboysand take up less space than the 750ml bottlesdo.
I open them one at a time and fill several 750ml bottles as I need to for gifts and or exchanges.





Another advantage to storing longer in the carboy or jugs, is if you didn't filter/ rack enough the last time you did it as time will tell, you can do it again by merely opening either vessel and racking again.
Once it's in the bottles, it's a major chore to clean it up again.
I found that out with my blackberry from November 2007 that I opened this Christmas.
Although the wine was fine, it had a very distasteful fruit haze sediment in it that ruined the appearance of it.
To remove that, I'll have to open all 28 bottles and filter/ rack the wine and then re bottle &amp; seal them all again.


Enjoy your wine anytime.


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## joeswine (Dec 30, 2008)

GOOD TO HEARAND SEE FROM YOU HANDYMAN&lt;GREATFORWARD THING ON THE SET UP&lt;I USE THE JUGS WHEN I,AM MAKING EXPERIMENTAL WINES ,BUT WHAT Ever END WORKS FOR YOU IS WHAT IT IS&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;


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## joeswine (Dec 30, 2008)

http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined






 yes time in a bottle or jug always let your taste buds decide whats best ,to suit your own requirements.............


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 30, 2008)

Handyman....I like looking at all your jugs....Makes me feel right at home....





We hit the jugs pretty hard when we started making wine...wanted the jugs and needed something while our wines fermented and aged....


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2009)

Hey Folks.... 


Here's a clever idea that I've been pondering for some time.


Degassing has always been a real pain for me. I hate the personal attention it requires to agitate the must every couple of days.
I saw in one ofthe pictures someone posted on this forum, that a small vacuum pump was being used to accomplish this end but I've never thought about getting one when I needed it and it can be cost restrictive to some.


I was at a local vinyard winery (Childress Winery, North Carolina) a couple weeks ago and while there, I bought a wine storing pump to vacuum seal my opened wine bottles with.
It came with 2 valved stoppers and you simply insertes the stoppers into the bottle neck, then inserted the pump nipple into the hole in the top of the stopperand pump the air out.


So there I was today, with a wine bottle of left over blackberrymust from the 6 gallon batch I'm making,that fit nearly perfectly in a 750ml bottle and no way to cap it short od a cork.
So I thought why not use the stopper?


After inserting it and then as an after thought, pumping the air out I was amazed and delightedto see the formation of several hundred co2 bubbles come swiftly to the surface of the already degassed(or so I thought) must.


After some swift thinking, I found that the while the stoppers were not big enought to fit the mouth of my carboy, the pump body fits snugly enough into the water trap bung to create a seal and after pumping, I was again amazed and delighted to see more co2 bubbles rising out of the degassed must in the carby.
I figure I'll check the seal every day or so for a while and after a couple days, seal the carboy of properly degassed must with the residue co2 in the neck.


Best of your wining...
Handyman



http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq327/handyman454/VacuumIdea.jpg


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## joeswine (Jan 10, 2009)

I,ll have to give it a try handyman..............


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## jobe05 (Jan 10, 2009)

handyman454 said:


> I was at a local vinyard winery (Childress Winery, North Carolina) a couple weeks ago and while there,



Handyman, next time you plan a trip to Childress, give me a PM, I'll meet ya there. It's right up the road and thats were I get all my bottles from.


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## WineBear (Jan 19, 2009)

I also did the Blackberry this summer. We, the wife and I, picked for about three weeks, freezing as we went along. We had somewhere around 35 to 40 lbsof berries.( A very good year for berries here just east of St. Louis)I took about 30 lbs and rendered down the juice in a big stock pot on the stove. then took the juice, about 4 gal. and started from there.Did the usual chems, sugar, etc.(without adding any acid). I let it ferment down to 1.0. racked off added waterto about 5gal. batch and stopped the fermintation. Pretty dry at this stage. Then I used the rest of the Blackberries, about 15 lbs., to make a F-pack. This consisted of the Blackberries and 4 lbs. of sugar cooked on the stove. This helped the flavor tremendously. Then added lite-toast american oak, 6 to 8 oz. and topped up to the neckof the carboy and let it age for three months before bottling. I back sweetened and left it a little tart with a hint of the oak and ummm-ummm-ummm




The wife says it's a little too tart but I feel that a true Blackberry taste is tart. To each his own I guess



The wife and her best friend made a Peach-Apricot this summer. WOW!! And now are in the process of making an Apple-Pear. Oh, the possibilities are endless!!!!! MY next project will be a Concord from scratch. WOOHOO!!! And I might even fortify it.


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## univity (Jan 23, 2009)

That's a good idea handyman


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