# Dragon Blood in 15 days!!!



## dangerdave

I am still astonished with this success! In my Bentonite Study, I made a batch of my Dragon Blood Wine (triple berry skeeter pee) that I bottled 15 days after starting the must. I still can't believe it! I'm drinking some right now!

My lovely wife thinks it might be better than my previous batches. Has anyone else been able to make a clear, delicious wine in two weeks?

Pictures below...


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## Hokapsig

Mine is still percolating downstairs in the winery. Even though in fermenatation, can I still add bentonite at this late time?


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## Arne

Hokapsig said:


> Mine is still percolating downstairs in the winery. Even though in fermenatation, can I still add bentonite at this late time?


 
I believe you can add it either pre fermentation or post fermentation. Seems like I have read you do not want to add it during fermentation. I do not know why, but think I have read this. Arne.


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## saramc

dangerdave said:


> I am still astonished with this success! In my Bentonite Study, I made a batch of my Dragon Blood Wine (triple berry skeeter pee) that I bottled 15 days after starting the must. I still can't believe it! I'm drinking some right now!
> 
> My lovely wife thinks it might be better than my previous batches. Has anyone else been able to make a clear, delicious wine in two weeks?
> 
> Pictures below...


 
You may have set a new record for Skeeter Pee turn around time. Out of curiosity, did you follow the recipe exactly or deviate in some way? Did you happen to use slurry only (what yeast was established in your slurry) or what yeast did you pitch? What was your starting SG? Did you have to filter this? WOW. My last batch of SkeeterPee was finished and crystal clear in 32 days, and I did not use Sparkalloid, and I was jumping with joy. But 15 days. Yikes.


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## dangerdave

saramc said:


> You may have set a new record for Skeeter Pee turn around time. Out of curiosity, did you follow the recipe exactly or deviate in some way? Did you happen to use slurry only (what yeast was established in your slurry) or what yeast did you pitch? What was your starting SG? Did you have to filter this? WOW. My last batch of SkeeterPee was finished and crystal clear in 32 days, and I did not use Sparkalloid, and I was jumping with joy. But 15 days. Yikes.


 
I used my own personal recipe, a modified, simpler version of Lon's original skeeter pee recipe. I call the wine *Dragon Blood*. Here's the recipe. The only variation was the addition of bentonite to the primary before pitching the yeast.
__________________________________________________________
*"DRAGON BLOOD"*

*FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE*

*Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:* 

Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order:
2 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _if you want to recude the acid level use one bottle._
Water to about five gallons
20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.09 after filling to 6 gallons*): _use less sugar for lower final ABV. Stir sugar until _completely_ desolved._
1 tsp. tannin (stir)
4 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
2 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
Top water to six (6) gallons* (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.09) and stir well
6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--a_vailable in most grocery store freezer sections_), frozen then thawed, in a nylon fine mesh bag (tied shut), placed in primary: _Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme.__ May also toss fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and racking._
Cover primary
Place brew belt: _Keep temp in 70F-80F range._
Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...

Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (starter, per yeast directions): _Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains may also work well._
Stir Primary Vigorously!

Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
Check temp
Check specific gravity
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket._
Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must._
Replace fruit pack
Cover primary

Step 4: When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Discard fruit._
Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
Degas very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough!_
Add Sparkolloid* (or other cleaing agent): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered for about 30 minutes. Add hot mixture to carboy._
Allow to clear undistrubed for no less than 1 week

Step 4: When wine is clear:
Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 4-5 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely disolved): _Add more or less sugar to taste. Remember! The sugars will blend with the berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!_
Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: _This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks._

Step 5: When wine is completely clear:
Bottle in clear bottles
Note: _Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!_
__________________________________________________________

Starting SG was right at 1.085. Yeast was EC-1118---no slurry. I did not filter.

Yikes is right! I still can't believe it. I have two more batches going just to see if this was a miracle (Well, _Jesus_ made wine, lots of it, and very quickly, too!)


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## g8keeper

dangerdave said:


> I used my own personal recipe, a modified, simpler version of Lon's original skeeter pee recipe. I call the wine *Dragon Blood*. Here's the recipe. The only variation was the addition of bentonite to the primary before pitching the yeast.
> __________________________________________________________
> *"DRAGON BLOOD"*
> 
> *FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE*
> 
> *Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:*
> 
> Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order:
> 2 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _if you want to recude the acid level use one bottle._
> Water to about five gallons
> 20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.09): _use less sugar for lower final ABV. Stir sugar until _completely_ desolved._
> 1 tsp. tannin (stir)
> 4 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
> 2 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
> 3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
> 6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--a_vailable in most grocery store freezer sections_), frozen then thawed, in a nylon fine mesh bag (tied shut), placed in primary: _Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme.__ May also toss fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and racking._
> Top water to six gallons
> Cover primary
> Place brew belt: _Keep temp in 70F-80F range._
> Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...
> 
> Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
> 1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (starter, per yeast directions): _Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains may also work well._
> Stir Primary Vigorously!
> 
> Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
> Check temp
> Check specific gravity
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket._
> Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must._
> Replace fruit pack
> Cover primary
> 
> Step 4: When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Discard fruit._
> Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
> Degas very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough!_
> Add 1 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
> Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
> Add Sparkolloid* (or other cleaing agent): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered for about 30 minutes. Add hot mixture to carboy._
> Allow to clear undistrubed for no less than 1 week
> 
> Step 4: When wine is clear:
> Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
> Add 4-5 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely disolved): _Add more or less sugar to taste. Remember! The sugars will blend with the berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!_
> Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: _This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks._
> 
> Step 5: When wine is completely clear:
> Bottle in clear bottles
> Note: _Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!_
> __________________________________________________________
> 
> Starting SG was right at 1.085. Yeast was EC-1118---no slurry. I did not filter.
> 
> Yikes is right! I still can't believe it. I have two more batches going just to see if this was a miracle (Well, _Jesus_ made wine, lots of it, and very quickly, too!)


i'll admit, i wasn't too enthused with my first attempt at making a skeeter pee, which was made cutting back on the lemon juice some, and adding a mixture of frozen mixed berries and peaches....was definitely thin and a little light on, flavor, but i am thinking i might have to try it again dave using your variation....maybe also though at the end, adding some form of frozen concentrate, such as old orchard berry blend for a little more back flavoring....


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## dangerdave

I'm telling you, Ken, this stuff is really good! The berry flavor is excellent! I have had wines like strawberry and peach, which disappointed me in their flavors (I ended up adding extracts for more flavor), but not this one. I use the Wyman's Frozen Triple Berry Blend I get from either Walmart or Sam's Club. Try just one batch _per the recipe_, and taste it at clearing, before ever adding any back sweetening. You might even be able to parse it down to a one gallon batch just for testing.

I know it sounds corny, but _everyone should try a batch of this wine_! I think I'm up to eight or nine batches of this, and they have all been great at bottling time. It also improves in the bottle! <although I'm yet to get any to last more than a few months in _my_ house>


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## g8keeper

dangerdave said:


> I'm telling you, Ken, this stuff is really good! The berry flavor is excellent! I have had wines like strawberry and peach, which disappointed me in their flavors (I ended up adding extracts for more flavor), but not this one. I use the Wyman's Frozen Triple Berry Blend I get from either Walmart or Sam's Club. Try just one batch _per the recipe_, and taste it at clearing, before ever adding any back sweetening. You might even be able to parse it down to a one gallon batch just for testing.
> 
> I know it sounds corny, but _everyone should try a batch of this wine_! I think I'm up to eight or nine batches of this, and they have all been great at bottling time. It also improves in the bottle! <although I'm yet to get any to last more than a few months in _my_ house>


 
1 gallon batch???...lol....are you kidding me???....roflmao....i think in all my time of wine making, i've only made a 1 gallon batch of something 1 time....lol...and that was an experimental batch of iced tea wine i made years ago from instant iced tea mix....funny thing with that one though....lol....i had let it sit for a long time, had added clearing agents and everything....it had never totally cleared....and this was when i was also told that a wine will not clear in the bottle....mind you, this was when i was first starting out...so like i said, i had let it sit for a long time and it never totally cleared, so i went ahead and bottled it anyways thinking it was as good as it was gonna get...believe it or not, those 5 bottles i got out of that gallon actually did clear while in the bottle....lol...had to be careful when pouring it as to not disturb the sediment...it was ok....nothing to write home about....turned out kinda like a relatively indistinguishable light bodied white wine....but anywho, 1 gallon batches just seem like a waste of time and energy....lol...i just might have to try your recipe though, dave, but only using 1 48 oz bottle of lemon juice as i do suffer with acid reflux....


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## g8keeper

i'm thinking i might have to try another bottle of my peach berry pee though....i cracked one open shortly after it had been bottled....been in bottles for a couple of months now....who knows, maybe it has improved a bit with a lil age...


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## dangerdave

LOL! Yea, me, too. I don't make one gallon batches, either. We have a couple of folks here who use _nothing_ but one gallon carboys. I'm not one of them. I'd rather swim than wade.

I've got acid reflux, too. Take medicine for it every day. I'm down to one bottle of lemon juice in mine, now. It still comes out great (better, I think). It does not bother my stomache at all.

Let us know how the "aged" peach berry is!


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## g8keeper

dangerdave said:


> LOL! Yea, me, too. I don't make one gallon batches, either. We have a couple of folks here who use _nothing_ but one gallon carboys. I'm not one of them. I'd rather swim than wade.
> 
> I've got acid reflux, too. Take medicine for it every day. I'm down to one bottle of lemon juice in mine, now. It still comes out great (better, I think). It does not bother my stomache at all.
> 
> Let us know how the "aged" peach berry is!


 thanks for the info dave....knowing that it is turning out nicely even with only using the one bottle of lemon juice is encouraging....and yeah, i pop tums like they r going out of style it seems like at times, as well as taking an o.t.c. zantac knock off twice a day as well....will definitely let you know how my first batch is doing now that it has been sitting....i'm sure it is definitely past the bottle shock state by now, but it should have been when i tried the first bottle as well...but with the talk on some of the other threads, it is possible now that it has been sitting, a lil more of the sweetness from backsweetening may have finally brought some of the fruitiness front forwards...i know i brought it back up to around the sweetness level i prefer but maybe now the flavors may have "married" a little more...i do have to admit upon first tasting it definitely seemed like it would make a nice base for a nice sangria....that is something we intend to do this summer for one of our family get togethers...


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## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> I am still astonished with this success! In my Bentonite Study, I made a batch of my Dragon Blood Wine (triple berry skeeter pee) that I bottled 15 days after starting the must. I still can't believe it! I'm drinking some right now!
> 
> My lovely wife thinks it might be better than my previous batches. Has anyone else been able to make a clear, delicious wine in two weeks?
> 
> Pictures below...



That is great news! I started a batch of this a week ago (strawberry, raspberry, blackberry, blueberry). Just transferred to secondary and removed the fruit with an SG of 1.01 as I had some free time today. Hopefully it'll get down below 1 in the next few days, then i'll just mix in the rest and wait for clearing. I too added bentonite originally so based on your thread, I should clear really fast after adding sparkolloid.

Its pretty bitter right now but its mostly the yeasty flavor on top of lemon (as I used the full lemon juice amount). But the smell is amazing. I bet this is gonna be great!


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## Midwest Vintner

A strawberry and peach wine require LOTS of fruit. It seems most recipes I have seen, don't put enough in. Any fruit that is more natural water will require more lb/gal.


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## Hokapsig

Dave, I'm calling "Shenanigans" on the 15 days . It's been 3 weeks and my Dragon Blood is STILL fermenting like a champ as of this morning. When I transfer to the carboy, I will add the bentonite and see if the clearing goes quicker.


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## saramc

I think the temperature that Dave maintains 70-80 has a lot to do with the turnaround time on this wine. IMHO

I make the tried and true version, though many times I will toss in 5# of red raspberries in a straining bag (they come out on Day 5)...and I do NOT use any fining agents, and I do not filter....and I most times I am ready to bottle, after stabilizing and one final racking, by day 45.

Dave, I did want to confirm....the sugar amount listed in your recipe is the amount anticipated for the entire recipe? Approx 16 cups for fermentation and 4 cups for back-sweetening? Adjust amount as necessary of course.
Also...your 15 day phenom....was that made using 1 bottle of juice, 32 oz or 48 oz?

I did make a batch using COSTCO's Italian Volcanic Lemon "JUICE" (not labelled as concentrate), used 96oz, and it was very smooth. When I catch it on sale again I will definitely be purchasing several bottles so I can make a few more batches with it---well worth it.

Thanks.


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## Hokapsig

Day 15 and my bag of berries is still in, though it did get a bit warmer in the basement, so the fermentation did pick up. That would explain the 15 days. I'll check the SG when I get home on Saturday.


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## Lkerr918

Going to store now to buy the fruit and thaw. Thanks for the recipe. Can't wait to try it. Thanks Logan


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## dangerdave

Hokapsig said:


> Dave, I'm calling "Shenanigans" on the 15 days . It's been 3 weeks and my Dragon Blood is STILL fermenting like a champ as of this morning. When I transfer to the carboy, I will add the bentonite and see if the clearing goes quicker.


 
That's cool, Hokapsig. I expected more than one proclaming "shenanibans!". Mine ferments dry usually within a week. I have never had a batch of wine ferment for three weeks.


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## dangerdave

saramc said:


> I think the temperature that Dave maintains 70-80 has a lot to do with the turnaround time on this wine. IMHO


 
I agree. I use a brew belt on my primaries, as my basement rarely gets above 65F.



> Dave, I did want to confirm....the sugar amount listed in your recipe is the amount anticipated for the entire recipe? Approx 16 cups for fermentation and 4 cups for back-sweetening? Adjust amount as necessary of course.


 
I put 20 cups of sugar in the primary to get the starting SG. Adjust to your desired final ABV. After it clears, I back-sweeten with 4 cups of sugar. That is the way I like it. Others will likely have different tastes.



> Also...your 15 day phenom....was that made using 1 bottle of juice, 32 oz or 48 oz?


 
For this batch, I used one 48 oz bottle of ReaLemon juice, added to the primary up front. I was trying to reduce the acid level a bit. It turned out perfect (for me)!


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## keena

dangerdave said:


> That's cool, Hokapsig. I expected more than one proclaming "shenanibans!". Mine ferments dry usually within a week. I have never had a batch of wine ferment for three weeks.



Same here, I've only done 9 wines so far but all have fermented dry in 5 days or less. I'm goin to be very sad when I get my first slow ferment that takes Weeks like that


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## Nietz

I must say that is just amazing, i tried the brew belt with my first pee but during fermentation i reached 84 degrees and that scared me and haven't used it since.


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## Runningwolf

I have never had a wine reach that temp using a brew belt. Where did you place it on the bucket or carboy? Next time place it about 1/3 to 1/2 the way up on the vessal. The lower you place it the warmer the must will be.


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## dangerdave

Hey, Dan. I usually place the belt right near the middle. Gives me a temp right at 75F. Should I be fermenting at a lower temp? My wines seem to be coming out nicely. I defer to you, though. You've been at this much, much longer that me.


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## Nietz

Runningwolf said:


> I have never had a wine reach that temp using a brew belt. Where did you place it on the bucket or carboy? Next time place it about 1/3 to 1/2 the way up on the vessal. The lower you place it the warmer the must will be.



I have previously fermented 5G in a 6.5G carboy without any issues. But It was my first time using a brewbelt with EC-1118 & first time using it on a Glass Carboy. It was placed right dead center and had the must steady at around 78 and then fermentation started with a BANG -literally-

EC-1118 @ 80+ degrees literally shot through the airlock and sprayed at least 2 feet up 

This time I'm using a proper primary bucket. Had to buy a couple new ones because all my other ones have been used for beer.


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## dangerdave

Doh!  I know some folks who use nothing but EC-1118 for all their wines.


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## Hokapsig

Dave, I'm in Parkersburg the days after 4th or July. Hopefully my Dragon Blood will be ready by then. I'm looking forward to a trade.


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## southlake333

southlake333 said:


> That is great news! I started a batch of this a week ago (strawberry, raspberry, blackberry, blueberry). Just transferred to secondary and removed the fruit with an SG of 1.01 as I had some free time today. Hopefully it'll get down below 1 in the next few days, then i'll just mix in the rest and wait for clearing. I too added bentonite originally so based on your thread, I should clear really fast after adding sparkolloid.
> 
> Its pretty bitter right now but its mostly the yeasty flavor on top of lemon (as I used the full lemon juice amount). But the smell is amazing. I bet this is gonna be great!



Well I tested today and it was all the way down to .990. Added sparkolloid, kmeta, pot sorbate and racked. Lets see how quickly this baby clears. I started on 6/11 and its now 6/22 so I'm 11 days in. Who knows...I might make 15 days!


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## dangerdave

Go, JJ! Did you _thoroughly_ degas? I'm pretty anal about degassing. I hate bottle bombs!


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## nate0001

Just started a batch of this up. However, I don't remember if I put in 5 gallons or 6 gallons of water. I often lose track of counting... SG is 1.0725 right now. I'm using a 7.9 gallon bucket for primary fermenter and it looks pretty much at the same level as dangerdave's pictures from other threads.

Did I put 6 gallons in? If it turns out I didn't, would it harm anything if I end up adding a gallon in secondary?


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## Runningwolf

dangerdave said:


> Hey, Dan. I usually place the belt right near the middle. Gives me a temp right at 75F. Should I be fermenting at a lower temp? My wines seem to be coming out nicely. I defer to you, though. You've been at this much, much longer that me.


 
Sorry Dave I missed this post earlier.I also place my brew belts just below the center of the pail. If you have a Harbor Freight around you they sell a laser thermometer on sale for about $29. They're a lot of fun to play around with but it's also interesting getting instant readings at different levels on your fermentation pail with a brew belt on it.


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## dangerdave

nate0001 said:


> Just started a batch of this up. However, I don't remember if I put in 5 gallons or 6 gallons of water. I often lose track of counting... SG is 1.0725 right now. I'm using a 7.9 gallon bucket for primary fermenter and it looks pretty much at the same level as dangerdave's pictures from other threads.
> 
> Did I put 6 gallons in? If it turns out I didn't, would it harm anything if I end up adding a gallon in secondary?


 
If it looks pretty full, you're probably fine. That's a good starting SG. I wouldn't mess with it now. Let her rip! Are you pitching the yeast on the morrow?


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## dangerdave

Runningwolf said:


> Sorry Dave I missed this post earlier.I also place my brew belts just below the center of the pail. If you have a Harbor Freight around you they sell a laser thermometer on sale for about $29. They're a lot of fun to play around with but it's also interesting getting instant readings at different levels on your fermentation pail with a brew belt on it.


 
I remember you mentioning these before. I think one of these is on my wish list. Thanks, Dan!


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## nate0001

dangerdave said:


> If it looks pretty full, you're probably fine. That's a good starting SG. I wouldn't mess with it now. Let her rip! Are you pitching the yeast on the morrow?


Okay good to know. I lose count so often...lol

Yep. I mixed up the must around 3pm. Will be pitching tomorrow. Can't wait till see how this comes out.  First time actually making something... Well not really I have some mead going but I started that in carboys.


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## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> Go, JJ! Did you _thoroughly_ degas? I'm pretty anal about degassing. I hate bottle bombs!



I degassed but probably not "thoroughly". I used a big spoon, stirred back and forth in circles and got out as much gas as I could without introducing a ton of oxygen. I wish I had one of those tools for my drill but I do not so I have to make due for now.

On a side note, I just checked both the skeeter pee and berry pee and both have a big deposit of sediment at the bottom. The berry pee doesn't even look like the same wine I racked this afternoon. It went from looking more like a smoothie to a fruit punch. Obviously not clear but its only been 8 hours or so.


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## southlake333

nate0001 said:


> Just started a batch of this up. However, I don't remember if I put in 5 gallons or 6 gallons of water. I often lose track of counting... SG is 1.0725 right now. I'm using a 7.9 gallon bucket for primary fermenter and it looks pretty much at the same level as dangerdave's pictures from other threads.
> 
> Did I put 6 gallons in? If it turns out I didn't, would it harm anything if I end up adding a gallon in secondary?



I can't possibly see how having more would harm anything. 

As long as you can replicate the amounts of each ingredient in the correct proportion, it can't hurt to have a little extra to top off with.


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## dangerdave

southlake333 said:


> On a side note, I just checked both the skeeter pee and berry pee and both have a big deposit of sediment at the bottom. The berry pee doesn't even look like the same wine I racked this afternoon. It went from looking more like a smoothie to a fruit punch. Obviously not clear but its only been 8 hours or so.


 
Nice! I'm going home this morning to rack and sweeten 12 gallons of Dragon Blood!

Good luck , and good wine!


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## analog_kidd

nate0001 said:


> Just started a batch of this up. However, I don't remember if I put in 5 gallons or 6 gallons of water. I often lose track of counting... SG is 1.0725 right now. I'm using a 7.9 gallon bucket for primary fermenter and it looks pretty much at the same level as dangerdave's pictures from other threads.
> 
> Did I put 6 gallons in? If it turns out I didn't, would it harm anything if I end up adding a gallon in secondary?



I took my carboy and filled it up with water, then dumped it into my primary, then I used a marker on the outside of the primary to mark the level. This way I know where my fill line is. When I'm starting a batch, I make sure to fill to just above the mark, which gives me a little extra to account for racking loss.


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## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> Nice! I'm going home this morning to rack and sweeten 12 gallons of Dragon Blood!
> 
> Good luck , and good wine!



Ah, so I take it your two experimental batches are complete? That's 18 days so far on those batches. Not to shabby!


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## Hokapsig

SG was finally down to 0.995, so I racked to the carboy, dumped my berries in the back yard (watch for soused birds) and am waiting for the clearing to take place.


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## Nietz

Nietz said:


> EC-1118 @ 80+ degrees literally shot through the airlock and sprayed at least 2 feet up




Somehow i did it again...Yesterday fermentation started and i was at a perfect 80 Degrees sitting @ 1.076. Today I'm at 92 Degrees @ 1.032. I'm at a loss for words  The only good thing is it's in a bucket and didn't spray everywhere.

I've unplugged my heating belt so i'm hoping the temperature drops slowly and doesn't crash. Does anyone know if EC-1118 produces any off flavors from high temps? or what else I may expect?


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## nate0001

Pitched the yeast yesterday afternoon. Woke up to it fermenting pretty vigorously. Sg dropped from 1.0725 to 1.0640.


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## dangerdave

southlake333 said:


> Ah, so I take it your two experimental batches are complete? That's 18 days so far on those batches. Not to shabby!


 
They were....are...clear. I didn't get to them right away, though. Other stuff came up, and I had to leave them sit a few extra days. JJ says his was clear and bottled after 14 days!

I'm proceeding tomorrow.


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## dangerdave

nate0001 said:


> Pitched the yeast yesterday afternoon. Woke up to it fermenting pretty vigorously. Sg dropped from 1.0725 to 1.0640.


 
How's it coming, Nate?


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## nate0001

dangerdave said:


> How's it coming, Nate?


Just checked it and it's at 0.996. Wonder if I should rack now or see if it gets to 0.990 for a final 11% abv?


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## dangerdave

That's totally up to you. I'd give it one more day if that fits your schedule.


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## nate0001

Guess I'll wait another day, rack, and then start another batch but with a mango, peace, pineapple, banana frozen fruit mix that the store sells...


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## dangerdave

Nice. I got some tropical fruit wine clearing even as we post! Mango, peach, strawberry, pineapple. It was a favorate, so it made it into my prefered recipes.


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## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> Nice. I got some tropical fruit wine clearing even as we post! Mango, peach, strawberry, pineapple. It was a favorate, so it made it into my prefered recipes.



Oooo....do share! I'm looking for a recipe to try next and was just thinking pineapple/tropical the morning.


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## dangerdave

Well, JJ, my notes are at home. I'm still at work---26 hours and counting---covering for a guy whose mother is very ill. I'll try to post up that recipe for my Blue Macaw Tropical Fruit Wine soon. Thanks for asking.


----------



## nate0001

Ended up racking a bunch of lees...  I have much to learn about the effective process...


----------



## oldwhiskers

Inspired by the Dragon Blood recipe and wanting to do something similar with just juices, I started a batch using 96 oz ReaLemon and 2 gallons of Ocean Spray cranberry, blackberry, and blueberry. Starting at SG 1.100 I pitched the yeast on Monday and was at 1.026 last night. Tasted at 1.050 and if that is similar to finished flavor, then this one will be put on my favorites list, it was pretty tasty. This is a 6 gallon batch with a little over.


----------



## dangerdave

I'll have to try that one, John. Using juice would simplify the process even more. However, the berries I use give the Dragon Blood a very rich fruity flavor. I'm sure the skins of the fruit affect the body as well. How did you decide on using 2 gallons of juice? Was that what you needed to get the beginning SG you wanted? Remember, when you ferment it dry (SG<1.000), it won't be sweet any more. That's why you backsweeten it after clearing out all the yeasties.

Good luck, John!


----------



## oldwhiskers

I went with 2 gallons after backing out 40 oz of ReaLemon since the SP recipe uses appoximately 20 oz per gallon. I thought that the 2 gallons would give me sufficient berry favoring, time will tell. My last batch of SP was back sweetened after stabilization and fining to 1.006. Initially after tasting one week later I thought it was was to sweet but after a few more weeks it seems perfect and very smooth. The flavor of the batch with Ocean Spray really tasted fantastic at 1.050, at 1.026 you can tell it's a lot dryer and the young alcohol taste stands out.

No hurry on this one, I have roughly 20 gallons of Apple & Skeeter Pee I need to bottle while I let this one settle down and age a bit while I am refilling my carboys.


----------



## dangerdave

oldwhiskers said:


> I went with 2 gallons after backing out 40 oz of ReaLemon since the SP recipe uses appoximately 20 oz per gallon. I thought that the 2 gallons would give me sufficient berry favoring, time will tell.


 
Let us know how it turns out. I am very interested.



> My last batch of SP was back sweetened after stabilization and fining to 1.006. Initially after tasting one week later I thought it was was to sweet but after a few more weeks it seems perfect and very smooth.


 
I've noticed that, too. A few weeks in the bottle, and this stuff is great! 



> No hurry on this one, I have roughly 20 gallons of Apple & Skeeter Pee I need to bottle while I let this one settle down and age a bit while I am refilling my carboys.


 
I feel your pain. I've got six (5-6 gallon) carboys in the Lab, and five are ready to bottle. I'm woefully short on clear bottles! I've got cookouts scheduled for next weekend, and my lovely wife is looking at me like...

I gotta get busy bottling...


----------



## oldwhiskers

LOL, better keep the wife happy.


----------



## smack

*i'll have to come up with a better name*

in keeping with the trend, i'm trying a variety based on your recipe. since i live in okinawa, i thought a version specific to this region would be fun. instead of lemon juice i'm using shikwasa, as it grows locally. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_depressa
instead of triple berry, i picked up some wax apples at the local market today. i'm not entirely certain that they grow on this tiny island, but they are a tropical fruit from this regioin with flesh like a pear and an almost floral taste, like hibiscus. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syzygium_samarangense
im making 3 gallons, as i'm waiting on the rest of my carboys to arrive on the slow boat from the U.S.

dragon blood would be a great name for an asian inspired skeeter pee but that one is already taken. if it turns out well i'll have to coin a moniker even more apropos.


----------



## btom2004

dangerdave said:


> Let us know how it turns out. I am very interested.
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed that, too. A few weeks in the bottle, and this stuff is great!
> 
> 
> 
> I feel your pain. I've got six (5-6 gallon) carboys in the Lab, and five are ready to bottle. I'm woefully short on clear bottles! I've got cookouts scheduled for next weekend, and my lovely wife is looking at me like...
> 
> I gotta get busy bottling...


Question: Any reason why the SP has to go in clear bottles?


----------



## southlake333

btom2004 said:


> Question: Any reason why the SP has to go in clear bottles?



To let you see the beautiful color of the pee! Since I keep mine in a wine rack in the dining room, I'm using mostly green bottles to avoid sunlight. But, I've started bottling one bottle from each batch in clear bottles so I can see the color differences.


----------



## oldwhiskers

The latest taste test is still pretty tasty and the berry flavor is moving to the front again, almost ready to move to the secondary.


----------



## btom2004

southlake333 said:


> To let you see the beautiful color of the pee! Since I keep mine in a wine rack in the dining room, I'm using mostly green bottles to avoid sunlight. But, I've started bottling one bottle from each batch in clear bottles so I can see the color differences.


 I thought as much. Speaking about color. How do you get your SP to retain color? Mine went from a brilliant red to a pale yellow, after adding fining agents K-Meta and Sorbate. I'm gussing the skins in primary adds the color and it sticks after fining. If you switch to juice as oldwhiskers suggested above you will lose that great color?


----------



## southlake333

btom2004 said:


> I thought as much. Speaking about color. How do you get your SP to retain color? Mine went from a brilliant red to a pale yellow, after adding fining agents K-Meta and Sorbate. I'm gussing the skins in primary adds the color and it sticks after fining. If you switch to juice as oldwhiskers suggested above you will lose that great color?



I'm not sure why yours changed colors like that. I used fruit (not juice) so maybe that contributed to the color staying. But then again, I have many other batches of wine made from just juice that retain their color after clearing.


----------



## nate0001

In the past 4 days, my batch hasn't seem to change in clarity at all.


----------



## oldwhiskers

I transferred to a carboy and degassed, bumped drill one time to many and lost some to a volcano. Then I stabilized it and called it a night since it was getting late. The second picture is after 24 hours settling, I still need to add the Sparkolloid tonight. It looks like it is going to have a cranberry like color.

I will top up with the Sparkolloid and some more Skeeter Pee.

The third picture is 2 days after adding Sparkolloid with the clearing line clearly visible, still a ways to go on clearing though. The color is pretty nice.

The fourth and fifth picture show the nice coloration and the nearly fully clear wine.

I pitched the yeast on this batch on 6/25/12 the last pictures are on 7/7/12. Can hardly wait to back sweeten and sample this batch.


----------



## southlake333

oldwhiskers said:


> I transferred to a carboy and degassed, bumped drill one time to many and lost some to a volcano. Then I stabilized it and called it a night since it was getting late. The second picture is after 24 hours settling, I still need to add the Sparkolloid tonight. It looks like it is going to have a cranberry like color.
> 
> I will top up with the Sparkolloid and some more Skeeter Pee.



Looks tasty! Now I'm tempted to get another batch going...lol.


----------



## saramc

*SP: color loss vs. color retention*



btom2004 said:


> Speaking about color. How do you get your SP to retain color? Mine went from a brilliant red to a pale yellow, after adding fining agents K-Meta and Sorbate. I'm gussing the skins in primary adds the color and it sticks after fining. If you switch to juice as oldwhiskers suggested above you will lose that great color?


 
I make a raspberry SP using lees with a SG of ~ 1.030 and typically top off the lees to approximately 1/2 gallon of the wine/mead I am snagging the lees from. I don't use Sparkolloid in my Skeeter Pee and I have always been able to maintain color. I rarely use fining agents anyway, but from the batches of SP I have made I have never used lees from anything that had bentonite used at the beginning (pear, peach).

I have also had SP bottles go thru bottle shock, beautiful light raspberry shade when bottling and then days later it appears that the wine lost the color and appeared light yellow with a pink tinge. Checked a few weeks later and it was back to its original light raspberry shade. And of course, my wine is kept in the dark, stored around 55F.

Have a friend who made cherry SP and he used the pulp and the lees from his cherry wine and that cherry SP looked like cherry Kool-Aid when it was bottled.


----------



## saramc

*Added sparkolloid and then racked?*



southlake333 said:


> Well I tested today and it was all the way down to .990. Added sparkolloid, kmeta, pot sorbate and racked. Lets see how quickly this baby clears. I started on 6/11 and its now 6/22 so I'm 11 days in. Who knows...I might make 15 days!


 
southlake....just wanted to make sure I read this properly...you "added sparkolloid, kmeta, pot sorbate and racked". How much time after adding these three items did you rack? Because usually the "dwell time" after adding Sparkolloid is a week minimum, depending on if you used Hot mix vs. Cold mix preparation. If you racked immediately after adding you will likely have issues with clearing.


----------



## oldwhiskers

So far, all of my SP has been made using a new batch of K1-V1116 yeast. I recently started using the Sparkolloid and so far out of four 6-gallon batches it has not stripped any colors out of anything. Three batches of apple juice wine that was fined with Sparkolloid looks like the same color as when I bought the juice.


----------



## saramc

*DRY in 5 days or less*



keena said:


> Same here, I've only done 9 wines so far but all have fermented dry in 5 days or less. I'm goin to be very sad when I get my first slow ferment that takes Weeks like that


 
To have a ferment go dry in 5 days or less can be very concerning. Many times if you have a wine finish dry that quickly you will likely be left with issues such as volatile esthers and off-flavors. Typically you would anticipate a wine ferment to have a S.G. decrease by 2/3 within 5-7 days, in a temp range of 70-72F, then rack wine to carboy/airlock and anticipate it to finish dry within the 30 day mark. If you increase the temperature it will likely ferment faster but that can definitely have a negative impact. It may be OK for a quick drinker like Skeeter Pee, but I definitely would not want that to be the norm. And then of course, certain yeasts are known to ferment fast--so you DO have to look at that. And then you have to consider the fruit you are working with--some are well known to be difficult to work with, your starting S.G., the pH, acid profile--so many factors. 
But, I am in no rush, I want the best end product I can get, so I consider the temperature threshold, knowing that a cooler temperature will pull more aromatics into country wine or Skeeter Pee.
As long as you are happy with your wine that is all that matters.


----------



## dangerdave

I used to think the same way, saramc. Until I made this stuff. It goes dry in the bucket, gets stabilized and cleared right after, and sweetened in a week. _And_ it's good!

I'm going to stop saying it because everyone will think I'm crowing too much. Try it!


----------



## nate0001

Anyone know what could be causing my pee to not clear? Been the same clarity for past 5 days.


----------



## oldwhiskers

nate0001 said:


> Anyone know what could be causing my pee to not clear? Been the same clarity for past 5 days.



Not sure why yours is not clearing, but these steps will help ensure that a batch clears.


Ensure fermentation is complete, SG steady and generally less than SG 1.000 for three consecutive days.
Degass well!! This is a chore if stirring by hand and will probably have to be done multiple different times. I use a degassing setup in my drill, but beware of volcanoes if you get to agressive.
If using Sparkolloid, add 1 tbsp to one cup boiling water and simmer a minimum of 5 minutes stirring well. Add to must while still hot and stir in well.

If it is not degassed well, it will resist clearing.


----------



## nate0001

oldwhiskers said:


> Not sure why yours is not clearing, but these steps will help ensure that a batch clears.
> 
> 
> Ensure fermentation is complete, SG steady and generally less than SG 1.000 for three consecutive days.
> Degass well!! This is a chore if stirring by hand and will probably have to be done multiple different times. I use a degassing setup in my drill, but beware of volcanoes if you get to agressive.
> If using Sparkolloid, add 1 tbsp to one cup boiling water and simmer a minimum of 5 minutes stirring well. Add to must while still hot and stir in well.
> 
> If it is not degassed well, it will resist clearing.


Pretty much did all that. Followed everything exactly. Maybe i should try degassing again?


----------



## dangerdave

Nate! I have had three different wines that would not clear. One had a pectin haze (testable), another had suspended yeast (tasted like homemade bread), and another was not degassed thoroughly (it fizzed when I stuck my wine thief in it).

The first was solved with pectic enzyme, on the second I used sorbate and sparkolloid, and on the third---I bought a vacuum pump. Now, I am anal about degassing thoroughly, and all my wines clear quickly.

My first guess would be CO2. Degas some more...maybe.


----------



## nate0001

Definitely was gassy. Bubbles won't stop coming as a stir.


----------



## dangerdave

Stir, Nate, stir!


----------



## oldwhiskers

Nate, I updated the pictures on message #63 to include one after 2 days with Sparkolloid and the visible clearing line, it still likes several days to get crystal clear but it's headed that direction. The color looks like it will be pretty nice.


----------



## nate0001

oldwhiskers said:


> Nate, I updated the pictures on message #63 to include one after 2 days with Sparkolloid and the visible clearing line, it still likes several days to get crystal clear but it's headed that direction. The color looks like it will be pretty nice.


Mine looked like picture 3 about 1-2 days after I racked (except there was no visible clearing line that i recall. the whole thing just looked like the top half except for the visible lees at the bottom of course) and sat like that with no improvement. I degassed it for quite a while the other day and it was back to looking the same the next day.

Getting fairly annoyed as I was hoping to have a fast turn around time that other people got.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I'm thinking about starting my first skeeter pee and this recipe really peaked my interest. Just wondering if I can expect to be able to get the pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient, energizer and tannin at my LHBS. I was also wondering what you used for the nylon bag and where you got it. Oh...one more thing...could I use the leftover slurry from my merlot kit after it is done in the primary to fire up the pee?


----------



## Hokapsig

Dave, I think I squeezed my berries too hard and have a lot of pectin in my Dragon blood. I tossed in 2 teaspoons of pectic enzyme after stabilizing and sulfiting. Do you think this will help clear up the haze or should I have added the enzyme prior to Meta? 

BTW, I was in Parkersburg this week, but work kept me busy, so I didn't call. Next time!!


----------



## southlake333

DirtyDawg10 said:


> Just wondering if I can expect to be able to get the pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient, energizer and tannin at my LHBS. I was also wondering what you used for the nylon bag and where you got it. Oh...one more thing...could I use the leftover slurry from my merlot kit after it is done in the primary to fire up the pee?



Yes, yes, yes and yes.

The nylon bag will also be available at the LHBS (they carry varying sizes, get a big one).

You can use a slurry from anything but I don't. I just create a yeast starter and dump it.


----------



## southlake333

Hokapsig said:


> Dave, I think I squeezed my berries too hard... and have a lot of pectin in my Dragon blood. I tossed in 2 teaspoons of pectic enzyme after stabilizing and sulfiting. Do you think this will help clear up the haze or should I have added the enzyme prior to Meta?



Ouch, I bet your pee is painful now. 

Yes, I bet that will help it clear nicely. Just give it a few days.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Thanks southlake333, I guess I could just pick up a packet of yeast so I don't have to wait for the merlot to ferment.


----------



## Boatboy24

Dawg: you can also use paint straining bags from your local big box store for your fruit. I just picked some up the other day. For my first batch of pee, I used a bag purchased at my LHBS for about $7. I got six bags from lowes the other day for about $9.


----------



## Hokapsig

southlake333 said:


> Ouch, I bet your pee is painful now.
> 
> Yes, I bet that will help it clear nicely. Just give it a few days.


 
South, thanks for hitting that one out of the park. I really should re-read the posts before I hit send. DOH!

Thanks for the info....


----------



## oldwhiskers

My batch is clearing nicely and really looking nice, a few more days and it should be pretty clear, I am liking the coloration. This batch was pitched on 6/25/12 and I can hardly wait to back sweeten and sample.


----------



## nate0001

Think my problem was pectic haze. Did the test and some stringy clumps developed. Just added another dose of enzyme. Hopefully clears up.


----------



## SmallTown

oldwhiskers said:


> Inspired by the Dragon Blood recipe and wanting to do something similar with just juices, I started a batch using 96 oz ReaLemon and 2 gallons of Ocean Spray cranberry, blackberry, and blueberry. Starting at SG 1.100 I pitched the yeast on Monday and was at 1.026 last night. Tasted at 1.050 and if that is similar to finished flavor, then this one will be put on my favorites list, it was pretty tasty. This is a 6 gallon batch with a little over.


 
John please tell me about this Ocean Spray... How much of each did you use. I've never used Ocean Spray so I know nothing about it.


----------



## oldwhiskers

I used 2-gallons of the Ocean Spray cranberry, blackberry, blueberry juice blend including grape and apple that is found in most grocery stores as well as 96 ounces of ReaLemon. This is my first batch using the Ocean Spray in the Skeeter Pee recipe. It tasted good at various stages during the fermentation, I have high hopes for the flavor with this combination. DangerDave's may have a better overall berry flavor since he fermented on the fruit to make his Dragon Blood. I just wanted to try doing something similar to his recipe by just using grocery store juices instead of whole berries.


----------



## SmallTown

Thanks John...


----------



## saramc

oldwhiskers said:


> I used 2-gallons of the Ocean Spray cranberry, blackberry, blueberry juice blend including grape, apple and pear that is found in most grocery stores as well as 96 ounces of ReaLemon.


 
Were these their 100% juices or their cocktail blends?


----------



## oldwhiskers

They were the 100% juice type, the result looks, smells and tasted good. I am just anxious to back sweeten and sample when I rack off of the Sparkolloid lees.


----------



## southlake333

oldwhiskers said:


> I used 2-gallons of the Ocean Spray cranberry, blackberry, blueberry juice blend including grape, apple and pear that is found in most grocery stores as well as 96 ounces of ReaLemon. This is my first batch using the Ocean Spray in the Skeeter Pee recipe. It tasted good at various stages during the fermentation, I have high hopes for the flavor with this combination. DangerDave's may have a better overall berry flavor since he fermented on the fruit to make his Dragon Blood. I just wanted to try doing something similar to his recipe by just using grocery store juices instead of whole berries.



I'm very curious how this turns out as the bags of fruit get expensive quick. When you say "2-gallons of the Ocean Spray cranberry, blackberry, blueberry juice blend" is that a single product? Or 3 separate products that you dump in together? All the Ocean Spray products I've seen on the shelves contain preservatives so I hadn't thought to try them but if it works for you then I might need to.

On a side notes, now that my Tinkleberry Tea (quad berry skeeter) has been in bottles for a few weeks, its....addictive. This is by far my favorite of all of the wines I've made so far and will be my default from now on. Thanks Lon and Dave!


----------



## oldwhiskers

The berry blend is all three berries in the same bottle. The label only lists ascorbic acid and citric acid in addition to the fruit juices, so no preservatives are listed on the label.


----------



## southlake333

oldwhiskers said:


> The berry blend is all three berries in the same bottle. The label only lists ascorbic acid and citric acid in addition to the fruit juices, so no preservatives are listed on the label.



Nice, I'm going to have to try that. Have you had berry pee fermented with actual fruit to use as a taste comparison? I'm excited to see how this turns out.

So many variations...gotta try them all! I'm never going to drink all this...lol.


----------



## oldwhiskers

southlake333 said:


> Nice, I'm going to have to try that. Have you had berry pee fermented with actual fruit to use as a taste comparison? I'm excited to see how this turns out.
> 
> So many variations...gotta try them all! I'm never going to drink all this...lol.



No, not yet but I need to try it. This was an attempt to get something similar from just juice. I almost got my thief out last night to hat a sample, it is pretty much clear now. I will probably get a sample this week.


----------



## ShelleyDickison

If I would start the today what are the chances that I can put it to clear before the 19th of July. I leave for Florida and won't be back till the 30th. Didn't know if I should just wait till I got back or not.


----------



## oldwhiskers

It would probably just have time to finish fermenting (probably 5-7 days) but not clear.


----------



## southlake333

ShelleyDickison said:


> If I would start the today what are the chances that I can put it to clear before the 19th of July. I leave for Florida and won't be back till the 30th. Didn't know if I should just wait till I got back or not.



You would be able to get it into the secondary where it could sit for as long as you want (and could end up clearing without a clearing agent). But you won't be able to get to the sparkolloid step before you go.

I say go ahead and do it. The carboy phase is the most variable length phase and can last as long as you want. So letting that happen while you're out of town is a great idea.


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Ok I did go ahead and start. The brew shop I go to didn't have sparkoloid, they don't carry it. He recommended Isinglass instead. Should I order some sparkoloid or is what I bought ok?


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Does anyone know how to adjust this for a Christmas cranberry cinnamon blend. Thought that would make cute Christmas gifts in mason jars decorated for Christmas.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm glad you guys and gals have kept at it! I've been overwhelmed with family from out of state this week. We had a great cook-out wine-out this week end with eight varieties of my wine on hand.

You'll never guess the favorate. It was my littlemonkey lemon wine (based on Lon's original recipe), the cheapest wine I make. It was very hot outside, and everyone drank the lemon wine over ice. The ladies---encouraged by my lovelt wife---drank theirs with a splash of strawberry daiquiri mix, making strawberry lemonade with a kick! They consumed or carted off nearly an entire 30 bottle batch! I started more yesterday. 

I'm sorry if I missed any important questions. Shoot 'em back at me if I did.

And, John, that stuff looks great!


----------



## oldwhiskers

Sounds like you did good entertaining with a small dent in your stores. I went ahead and drew a sample out and sweetened it tonight, it really smells good and tastes pretty good for only being less than three weeks since pitching the yeast. You can taste the berries and the lemon pretty good and it should really taste good after a couple of months to smooth out. Here's a shot in the glass. Yours is probably a darker color and a stronger berry flavor from fermenting on the fruit but this is not bad.


----------



## dangerdave

Beautiful! Looks like a blush! Good job, John.

I have noticed that, for some reason, the Dragon Blood gets very bad bottle shock. It does, however, improved significantly over the first few weeks in the bottle. This Fall, I get to try some year old Dragon Blood. I hid some from the drinkers!


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Started the Dragon Blood on 10 July. I am very excited.


----------



## oldwhiskers

Looking good.


----------



## nate0001

Racked to secondary today. Has a really odd smell. It doesn't smell like sulfer, fingernail polish, vinegar, mold, etc. Can't really put my finger on it but it's just an odd smell. It seems like all the berry aroma was just sucked away.

How pronounced should the berry flavor be? This and the other batch I have that finished fermenting, it's mostly an odd mix of fermented lemon juice with a hint of the fruit in the background. Granted I just mixed in the sugar to the berry one (but can't really taste the sugar atm).


----------



## oldwhiskers

A lot of the time the smell kinda goes a bit and comes back after some aging. Mine has a light berry smell but I think you can smell the young alcohol also. If it fermented dry SG < 1.000, you won't taste any of the sugar. If the wine has not clarified yet you will have kind of a jumbled up smell, after clarifying the smell should be a little more noticeable.


----------



## nate0001

Yeah I cleared and racked off the lees so I just put sugar in. Got down to 0.992. Have to see how it is in a few days I suppose. Just worried I screwed something up and will have to dump it


----------



## oldwhiskers

What SG did you sweeten it to, or did you just sweeten a glass of it? In my post above I have a picture of my last batch that I pitched the yeast on 6/25/12, I could smell and taste the berries but it was not an in your face type flavor, it was more mild/mellow berry flavor with the young alcohol standing out the most. My starting SG was 1.100 on it.

Just Finished


----------



## nate0001

Well I figured out it's actually my water that's causing the odd smell. Took out a clean glass and had a glass of water earlier, came back and smelled it. Smelt exactly like what the pee smelt like except not as strong.

Thankfully the berry aromas and taste are coming back up and it's tasting mighty fine. About to bottle here in next few hours.

Edit: All worries from previous gone. Had enough for 28 full bottles and a glass to try. Not bad considering I spilt a bunch trying to rack. lol. It's delicious!


----------



## southlake333

nate0001 said:


> Well I figured out it's actually my water that's causing the odd smell. Took out a clean glass and had a glass of water earlier, came back and smelled it. Smelt exactly like what the pee smelt like except not as strong.
> 
> Thankfully the berry aromas and taste are coming back up and it's tasting mighty fine. About to bottle here in next few hours.
> 
> Edit: All worries from previous gone. Had enough for 28 full bottles and a glass to try. Not bad considering I spilt a bunch trying to rack. lol. It's delicious!



Looks great!


----------



## southlake333

oldwhiskers said:


> Sounds like you did good entertaining with a small dent in your stores. I went ahead and drew a sample out and sweetened it tonight, it really smells good and tastes pretty good for only being less than three weeks since pitching the yeast. You can taste the berries and the lemon pretty good and it should really taste good after a couple of months to smooth out. Here's a shot in the glass. Yours is probably a darker color and a stronger berry flavor from fermenting on the fruit but this is not bad.



I'm definitely going to have to try a batch of this. The ease of just dumping in some concentrate is too tempting to pass up.


----------



## oldwhiskers

nate0001 said:


> Well I figured out it's actually my water that's causing the odd smell. Took out a clean glass and had a glass of water earlier, came back and smelled it. Smelt exactly like what the pee smelt like except not as strong.
> 
> Thankfully the berry aromas and taste are coming back up and it's tasting mighty fine. About to bottle here in next few hours.
> 
> Edit: All worries from previous gone. Had enough for 28 full bottles and a glass to try. Not bad considering I spilt a bunch trying to rack. lol. It's delicious!



Looking pretty good Nate.


----------



## Boatboy24

Looks great, Nate! Enjoy it!


----------



## nate0001

Thanks. Brought some bottles over to my cousins for dinner just earlier. Downed them all and we all ended up passed out.


----------



## dangerdave

Careful now! That's some easy drinking stuff. I'm glad you like it, Nate. Pics are great! You got that haze handled and it worked out fine. A few weeks in the bottle, and it'll be even better!


----------



## Hokapsig

I had some haze in my Dargon Blood, but tossed 2 extra tsp of enzyme and it appears to be clearing and looking like everyone else's Blood. I have to stabilize and preserve and back sweeten. The initial tasting was a bit rough. What SG should I look for when backsweetening?


----------



## nate0001

Hokapsig said:


> I had some haze in my Dargon Blood, but tossed 2 extra tsp of enzyme and it appears to be clearing and looking like everyone else's Blood. I have to stabilize and preserve and back sweeten. The initial tasting was a bit rough. What SG should I look for when backsweetening?


It's to your taste pretty much. I used 60 oz of RealLemon and 5 cups of sugar for backsweeting and it came out perfect for me. My aunt, who only drinks dry wine, said it had a good flavor but was a bit too sweet for her.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I picked up the ReaLemon juice, frozen fruit and sugar today. I'll be heading to the LHBS tomorrow or Friday so I can start a batch of this over the weekend. I could only get the strawberry, blackberry, blueberry, raspberry blend but I think it will be fine.


----------



## nate0001

DirtyDawg10 said:


> I picked up the ReaLemon juice, frozen fruit and sugar today. I'll be heading to the LHBS tomorrow or Friday so I can start a batch of this over the weekend. I could only get the strawberry, blackberry, blueberry, raspberry blend but I think it will be fine.


That's what I used. Came out delicious.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

nate0001 said:


> That's what I used. Came out delicious.



Good to know!


----------



## southlake333

DirtyDawg10 said:


> I picked up the ReaLemon juice, frozen fruit and sugar today. I'll be heading to the LHBS tomorrow or Friday so I can start a batch of this over the weekend. I could only get the strawberry, blackberry, blueberry, raspberry blend but I think it will be fine.



That's what I used too. I haven't been able to find the triple berry blend.


----------



## dangerdave

Hokapsig said:


> I had some haze in my Dargon Blood, but tossed 2 extra tsp of enzyme and it appears to be clearing and looking like everyone else's Blood. I have to stabilize and preserve and back sweeten. The initial tasting was a bit rough. What SG should I look for when backsweetening?


 
Like Nate said, it's to taste. I use 4 cups of sugar in six gallons. Nate uses five. If I rightly recall, I think Lon uses six cups in his original Skeeter Pee Recipe.

I haven't checked the SG after sweetening.


----------



## dangerdave

I was in Sam's Club the other day, getting some more triple berry blend for more Dragon Blood, when I saw they had bags of frozen Dark Sweet Cherries! So I bought two bags (six pounds) to make some cherry lemon skeeter pee. I'm going to do it just like the Dragon Blood except sub out the cherries for the berries.

Pitched the yeast (EC-1118) this morning!

Now I need a new name for the cherry lemon... Maybe I should make it obvious and call it _Le Mon Cheri_.


----------



## oldwhiskers

That sounds good too. Yum.


----------



## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> Now I need a new name for the cherry lemon... Maybe I should make it obvious and call it _Le Mon Cheri_.



Haha, love the name!

I'll be very interested to see how that turns out as "fermented cherry" always means "medicine flavor" to me.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I picked up all my "stuff" from the LHBS today. I have a couple of questions before I start this tonight...

I got liquid Pectic Enzyme and Tannin. The pectic enzyme says to add 1/4tsp per 5 gal and the tannin says 1/2tsp to 1tsp per gallon. Should I be following the directions on the bottle or the recipe?

Pectic enzyme: 
recipe = 3tsp
bottle = 1/4tsp+

Tannin:
recipe = 1tsp
bottle = 3tsp to 6tsp

I'm lost on this one.


----------



## southlake333

DirtyDawg10 said:


> Should I be following the directions on the bottle or the recipe?



Follow the recipe, not the bottle.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Thanks! Done with step one and I'll be pitching the yeast tomorrow


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Pitched the yeast today and it looks good!!


----------



## saramc

DirtyDawg10 said:


> I picked up all my "stuff" from the LHBS today. I have a couple of questions before I start this tonight...





DirtyDawg10 said:


> I got liquid Pectic Enzyme and Tannin. The pectic enzyme says to add 1/4tsp per 5 gal and the tannin says 1/2tsp to 1tsp per gallon. Should I be following the directions on the bottle or the recipe?
> 
> Pectic enzyme:
> recipe = 3tsp
> bottle = 1/4tsp+
> 
> Tannin:
> recipe = 1tsp
> bottle = 3tsp to 6tsp
> 
> I'm lost on this one.




Liquid enzyme and powdered enzyme do not typically use the same dosage measure for measure, at least I have not found one that does. Though the good thing is, you are safe on "over using" the pectic enzyme, it really will not hurt anything. And if you forgot to add the enzyme you really can add it anytime while your active ferment is occurring, but the sooner the better.


----------



## dangerdave

DirtyDawg10 said:


> Pitched the yeast today and it looks good!!


 
Good luck, Derek! It looks perfect!


----------



## southlake333

Soo...apparently I talk about my wine too much. I was just sifting through several flip top bottles that had been opened, sampled and set in the fridge when my 2 year old daughter came up and asked "daddy, you drinking your tinkleberries?". Tinkleberry Tea is what I call my quad berry skeeter. 

So yes, now I'm sitting here sipping on a glass of Tinkleberry Tea...mmmmm...


----------



## tatud4life

LOL!!!!! That's funny! I'll be starting my first batch of quad berry tomorrow. Well, since it's 2 a.m., I guess I'll be starting it today!!!!


----------



## tatud4life

Dave, did you pull off some of the must for the yeast starter? It doesn't look like you did. I just want to make sure.


----------



## tatud4life

I checked the specific gravity after I added all the ingredients up tot this point. It was only 1.071. . It should still end up about 11% ABV. I'm good with that.


----------



## southlake333

tatud4life said:


> Dave, did you pull off some of the must for the yeast starter? It doesn't look like you did. I just want to make sure.



Yes, it helps the yeast to acclimate. Probably not even necessary though as this is a fast fermentation (won't take nearly as long as your standard pee).


----------



## dangerdave

tatud4life said:


> Dave, did you pull off some of the must for the yeast starter? It doesn't look like you did. I just want to make sure.


 

No. I always use fresh EC-1118 yeast, rehydrated according to the yeast package instructions (15 minutes in warm water), then gently stirred into the must.


----------



## dangerdave

tatud4life said:


> I checked the specific gravity after I added all the ingredients up tot this point. It was only 1.071. . It should still end up about 11% ABV. I'm good with that.


 
I concur! Let 'er rip!


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## tatud4life

Ok. Thanks. That is what I did. I just pitched it about 15 minutes ago. Can't wait to see this stuff in action!! If it tastes half as good as the berry blend, then this will be some good stuff!!


----------



## tatud4life

dangerdave said:


> I concur! Let 'er rip!



I think I might have added too much water.


----------



## tatud4life

dangerdave said:


> I concur! Let 'er rip!



I believe I added too much water at the end. I tried to top it off to six gallons, but it was already there. A lesson learned for the next batch. And there will be more batches!!


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## dangerdave

You'll be racking off that extra later. I usually have just a bit over six gallons just for that purpose. The bag of fruit usually pushes it up over the gallon mark, but that gets taken out later, too. I've had some that almost overflowed with foam! 

It is a wise man that anticipates the making of more wine!


----------



## tatud4life

Yes and I'm not wise in the ways of making wine. Not yet. 

I can't wait to make a batch using the slurry from my muscadine wine this winter! I'm anxious to see how that turns out! Also, like you, I plan on experimenting with different flavors.


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## keena

aight dave! since you are the flavored skeeter pee master I need some advice from you 

i want to do a cherry lime wine, im only doing one gallon because i cant get lime juice in containers larger than 8oz and dont want to buy 8 of them. lol
so my question is, how much cherry juice do you think i should put in? and do you think i should put it in before fermentation or after when back sweetening?

the cherry juice i have is montmorency cherry juice, indian summer brand. ingredients in order are: 1. montmorency red tart cherry juice, 2. montmorency tart cherry juice from concentrate.
the bottle is 46oz. think that is to much cherry for 1 gallon?


EDIT: i also did start a batch of your dragon blood but i couldnt find the berry blend, so i got a bag that had strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries. so it will be a lil different but hopefully similar results!


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## DirtyDawg10

Mine was done fermenting last night after only six days. It ended at 0.996. Now for the clearing. I may be close to the 15 days on this batch.


----------



## dangerdave

keena said:


> aight dave! since you are the flavored skeeter pee master I need some advice from you


Hardly, keena! But thanks. 



> i want to do a cherry lime wine, im only doing one gallon because i cant get lime juice in containers larger than 8oz and dont want to buy 8 of them. lol
> so my question is, how much cherry juice do you think i should put in? and do you think i should put it in before fermentation or after when back sweetening?


 
Honestly, I have no idea! My first several tries with skeeter pee, using juice to backsweeten, didn't turn out so good. There may have been other factors (like me being new to winemaking), but none-the-less my journey has brought me to my current level of success with using real fruit in the primary, and sugar to backsweeten---and I'm sticking to it! 



> the cherry juice i have is montmorency cherry juice, indian summer brand. ingredients in order are: 1. montmorency red tart cherry juice, 2. montmorency tart cherry juice from concentrate.
> the bottle is 46oz. think that is to much cherry for 1 gallon?


 
I hope someone who uses this method will pipe in and help you out. I know a lot of folks make it that way. 



> EDIT: i also did start a batch of your dragon blood but i couldnt find the berry blend, so i got a bag that had strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries. so it will be a lil different but hopefully similar results!


 
I think this will be great!


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## keena

Aight, thanks Dave! Maybe I'll have to try a few dif batches with dif amounts of cherry if all else fails. Having 6 primary buckets going at once never hurts, right


----------



## ShelleyDickison

My first attempt. I think it is looking pretty good. I think it is clear enough that I will bottle it tomorrow. I started it on 10 July. Hope it tastes as good as it smells.


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## tatud4life

That looks mighty tasty!!! I'll rack mine Friday and add the sparkolloid, kmeta, and sorbate.


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## dangerdave

Looks great, Shelley! Have you or are you planning to add some sugar?


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## ShelleyDickison

I back sweetened it 2 days ago. I thought I was suppose to wait a couple of days after that to make sure it didn't start to ferment again. I think I read that somewhere. to be honest I have read so much information I am getting overwhelmed with it. I will bottle this tomorrow. Part will be in a Wine on Tap bag because we are having a party in a couple of weeks and the rest in bottles. I have been really good of not sneaking any because I want to be surprised, but I will test it before the party. Thanks for the recipe.


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## oldwhiskers

Hey Dave, I am going to try a batch of your recipe as soon as I get a couple of empty carboys. I am trying the first real glass of my variation of your recipe and it's not bad. I back sweetened with only 1-1/2 cups of sugar and most of the young taste has receded. I think another cup of sugar would make it better though. Skeeter Pee and the variations really rocks.


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## dangerdave

ShelleyDickison said:


> I back sweetened it 2 days ago. I thought I was suppose to wait a couple of days after that to make sure it didn't start to ferment again. I think I read that somewhere. to be honest I have read so much information I am getting overwhelmed with it. I will bottle this tomorrow. Part will be in a Wine on Tap bag because we are having a party in a couple of weeks and the rest in bottles. I have been really good of not sneaking any because I want to be surprised, but I will test it before the party. Thanks for the recipe.


 
Yes. I always let mine sit for a while---at least a couple of days---just to be safe.

You are very welcome. And happy bottling! I've got some to do myself...pictures to follow...


----------



## dangerdave

oldwhiskers said:


> Hey Dave, I am going to try a batch of your recipe as soon as I get a couple of empty carboys. I am trying the first real glass of my variation of your recipe and it's not bad. I back sweetened with only 1-1/2 cups of sugar and most of the young taste has receded. I think another cup of sugar would make it better though. Skeeter Pee and the variations really rocks.


 
Awesome, John! Glad it came out nice. In a month it will be better. In six months (if any lasts that long) it will be remarkable!


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## ShelleyDickison

OMG it's bottling day and I am so nervous. It will be the first time. I really don't want to screw this up.


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## Boatboy24

Good luck Shelley!

Fill an empty carboy or bucket with a gallon or so of water. Then fill a few bottles with that, just to practice the process. My first bottling was just a couple months ago and i was nervous too. The practice made all the difference - and if I screwed it up, at least it was with just water.


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## nate0001

Boatboy24 said:


> Good luck Shelley!
> 
> Fill an empty carboy or bucket with a gallon or so of water. Then fill a few bottles with that, just to practice the process. My first bottling was just a couple months ago and i was nervous too. The practice made all the difference - and if I screwed it up, at least it was with just water.


Yeah this helps.

My first batch I had an awful time. Couldn't keep a syphon at all when racking or bottling, so I had to keep pumping. Second batch I never lost a syphon at all and bottling was easy as pie.

I'd like to get the floor corker one day though. The double lever is a pain.


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## southlake333

ShelleyDickison said:


> OMG it's bottling day and I am so nervous. It will be the first time. I really don't want to screw this up.



Good luck! Bottling is alot easier than it sounds so I'm sure you'll do fine.


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## ShelleyDickison

I did it! . Now all I need is to let them sit and put the labels on and put the foil on top. I also filled a wine on tap bag that's sitting in the fridge now. Did sneak a taste and it's really good. However I didn't think 915 in the morning was an appropriate time to start drinking. Come on Noon!


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## tatud4life

Looks great!!! There is never an inappropriate time to drink!!


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## oldwhiskers

ShelleyDickison said:


> I did it! . Now all I need is to let them sit and put the labels on and put the foil on top. I also filled a wine on tap bag that's sitting in the fridge now. Did sneak a taste and it's really good. However I didn't think 915 in the morning was an appropriate time to start drinking. Come on Noon!



Looks like you did a good job.


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## nate0001

Started a strawberry rhubarb variety yesterday. Pitching yeast today.

Going to be interesting to see how this comes out.


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## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> Awesome, John! Glad it came out nice. In a month it will be better. In six months (if any lasts that long) it will be remarkable!



Mine has dramatically improved over the last month and now is amazingly tasty. Does it really continue to improve from here? If so, I'm going to buy a safe to store this in...


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## southlake333

ShelleyDickison said:


> I did it! . Now all I need is to let them sit and put the labels on and put the foil on top. I also filled a wine on tap bag that's sitting in the fridge now. Did sneak a taste and it's really good. However I didn't think 915 in the morning was an appropriate time to start drinking. Come on Noon!



Congrats!! It looks awesome. Keep in mind that right now it will have a very strong young wine taste to it (which is a bad taste). If you can manage to stay away for just 2-3 weeks the flavor will improve drastically.


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## Hokapsig

I echo the thought. Mine was not very good during the bottling, but I let it go for a couple of weeks and it is now in BIG demand by friends and family.


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## nate0001

That's surprising. Mine was pretty awesome right at bottling. The 2nd variant I did I bottled it, took to a dinner with some friends, and they all raved about it. I hadn't even tasted it before then.


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## dangerdave

Looks like everyone's wine is coming out great! Remember that you were warned...MAKE MORE! Or get a safe, like JJ. Once the friends and family get a taste, it's all over!


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## ShelleyDickison

I had 3/4 of a bottle that didn't fit any where that I thought I would just sip on till my husband comes home tomorrow so I could open the first official bottle that I did with him and it didn't last past the first night. Now I have had to see it everyday since Wednesday. None of my friends get to taste it till him. If it truly gets better with time I may have to start a new batch in a couple of weeks. It will be a nice sitting on the porch after a day fishing in the boat drink. Thank you so much for all your help. Shelley


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## keena

I started the cherry lime Dave! Used the whole bottle of cherry juice, it didn't seem as strong as I thought it would be so I used it all. I'll be adding the yeast after work tonight. Fingers crossed!


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## dangerdave

Nice, keena! Keep us posted!

@shelley---You are very welcome! And my thanks to everyone who has posted here. This has turned out to be a good and easily modifiable recipe.


----------



## arh13p

Well after reading all this I figured I would give it a try....I pitched the yeast today. Since I am a newbie I hope it turns out as well as everyone elses has...Thanks for sharing.


----------



## southlake333

Well, I got together all my ingredients yesterday, sanitized the fermentation buckets and was about to start a non bentonite quad berry as well as a tropical quad berry when I realized...I'm out of places to store finished bottles...lol. Not only that, my kitchen is full of homeless bottles of pee from my 12 gallon experiments. Dangit! I need more storage!


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## keena

Under your bed, in the closet, bury them in the back yard, or put them in you're belly


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## keena

Got my dragon blood into carboy and added my sorbate meta and sparkolloid. It took about 45 min if pumping with my hand pump vacuum setup to Degas tho. Was anyone elses really gassy?

Also got my lime version of skeeter pee goin steady in primary and my cherry lime! I'm excited! Hope to put up pics tonight


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Here's what mine looked like after 15 days. This stuff really is fast!


----------



## oldwhiskers

Nice looking and crystal clear.


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## dangerdave

That's just beautiful, Derek! Good job!


----------



## dangerdave

keena said:


> Got my dragon blood into carboy and added my sorbate meta and sparkolloid. It took about 45 min if pumping with my hand pump vacuum setup to Degas tho. Was anyone elses really gassy?
> 
> Also got my lime version of skeeter pee goin steady in primary and my cherry lime! I'm excited! Hope to put up pics tonight


 
Yea, the skeeter pees get pretty gassy. Your hard pumping will pay off with beautiful clear wine like Derek's.


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Dumb question here..... Is the tropical quad berry made the same way as the Dragon blood, just different fruit.


----------



## tatud4life

I believe so and there is no such thing as a stupid question.


----------



## southlake333

ShelleyDickison said:


> Dumb question here..... Is the tropical quad berry made the same way as the Dragon blood, just different fruit.



Well, since I haven't made it yet, I can't say for sure. But yes, the basic idea will be the same. I currently have 2 x 4lb bags of the tropical fruit mix so my thought right now will be to use the basic Dragon's Blood recipe, using either 6 or 8lbs of fruit (since I have 8) and cutting the lemon juice down to 80 oz or so.


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Yeah that's what I was planning on. 8 lbs fruit and half lemon juice.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Thanks guys! Can't wait to try it out. It actually looks an even darker shade of red IRL.


----------



## dangerdave

ShelleyDickison said:


> Dumb question here..... Is the tropical quad berry made the same way as the Dragon blood, just different fruit.


 
I made my _Blue Macaw_ Tripical Fruit Wine using the same method (slightly modified) as the Dragon Blood but used no lemon juice. The first batch came out very sweet. Some people liked it, but I thought it was out of balance a little. So, to the second batch I added some extra acid blend. I just bottled that one yesterday. My lovely wife says it's better...but...I told her it still needs more acid, as those tropical fruits (strawberry, mango, peach, pineapple) are all sweet.

"So," I asked myself, "why don't you just make a skeeter pee version with the tropical fruit?"

And here you guys are discussing that very thing. That's what I'm going to do, add a bottle of lemon juice to the next batch to give it some balance. I should peally start testing the PH of my musts.


----------



## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> I made my _Blue Macaw_ Tripical Fruit Wine using the same method (slightly modified) as the Dragon Blood but used no lemon juice. The first batch came out very sweet. Some people liked it, but I thought it was out of balance a little. So, to the second batch I added some extra acid blend. I just bottled that one yesterday. My lovely wife says it's better...but...I told her it still needs more acid, as those tropical fruits (strawberry, mango, peach, pineapple) are all sweet.
> 
> "So," I asked myself, "why don't you just make a skeeter pee version with the tropical fruit?"
> 
> And here you guys are discussing that very thing. That's what I'm going to do, add a bottle of lemon juice to the next batch to give it some balance. I should peally start testing the PH of my musts.



I went ahead and got my next batch of quad berry as well as the tropical berry started last night. Unfortunately I added all the ingredients (including water) and THEN added the sugar, so now I probably have around 7 - 7.5 gallons of each...lol.

But overall, here's the recipes. Standard Dragon's blood recipe with the following modifications
- both have 8lb of fruit
- both have 5.5 gallons of water added
- both have 80oz of lemon juice
- both will have enough sugar added to bring the SG up over 1.080.

The end result here is probably going to be 7 gallons (instead of the 6 I was aiming for) but with 8lbs of fruit and 80oz of lemon that should be fine.


----------



## Hokapsig

3 Questions:

1. What's a good finishing SG which makes the Dragon blood sweet enough, but not so sweet as to overwhelm the berry flavor?

2. What's the amount of time to age so that the true berry flavor comes out and hits its peak?

3. How long can Skeeter Pee or Dragon Blood age and still be good for drinking (is there a length of time when it starts to go down hill? If so, what is that time period?)


----------



## southlake333

1. I did 1.007 for mine and I think its perfect.
2. A month in the bottle made a huge difference.
3. No clue (not sure if anyone has had it last very long...lol)


----------



## oldwhiskers

1. I like 1.006.
2. Two months really seems to be good with the rough edges smoothed out, my OG is 1.100.
3. Don't know, it just doesn't last very long.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Tried mine today after sweetening it on Friday morning. It was very good. A lot of flavor.


----------



## Dend78

started my first 3gal batch of pee/dragons blood with an addition of watermelon on friday, followed dave's version aside from I added in extra frozen blueberries and like 1/2lb of fresh watermelon that wasnt going to be eaten, with that small of an amount it probably wont do anything flavor wise, but the aroma slaps you in the face.

started Friday 8/10/2012 - yeast added 8/11/2012 after 24 hours
temp stays about about 70-72*
SG was 1.85ish or 20% ABV (side note here may need a better hydrometer or I need to learn to read it better)

today SG is sitting around 1.80 as its sound like a fresh can of soda


----------



## southlake333

Dend78 said:


> ...SG was 1.85ish or 20% ABV (side note here may need a better hydrometer or I need to learn to read it better)...



1.085 is around 11.5% abv so maybe you just need to learn to read it better.


----------



## Dend78

southlake333 said:


> 1.085 is around 11.5% abv so maybe you just need to learn to read it better.



I dont doubt that a bit 

i just applied my rookie hydrometer calculations to it okay the temp is 75% and its friday so thats an extra 8% right there add the 3 and carry the one bingo 20%


----------



## southlake333

Dend78 said:


> I dont doubt that a bit
> 
> i just applied my rookie hydrometer calculations to it okay the temp is 75% and its friday so thats an extra 8% right there add the 3 and carry the one bingo 20%



Lol...nice calculations! Mine are similar to that when counting calories on a diet... 

I usually shoot for 1.080 myself so you'll be happy with 1.085. I also ferment at 75%. In a couple weeks you'll have some yummy goodness to enjoy!


----------



## Dend78

I hope my only concern is im like a 3 year old I want to drink it now!!!


----------



## roger80465

Not totally sure which category this belongs in but Dragon's Blood seems to be the closest. I just completed my first batch of SP and was debating how to sweeten. I considered and tried the skeeterita approach but was not very well received. However, the remaining 4+ gallons of pee was mixed with 2 cans of frozen cranberry pomegranate concentrate and was greeted with open enthusiasm. My middle daughter (who really doesn't drink wine of any type) just took the bottle and walked away. My older daughter (also not a wine drinker) grabbed it back and decided it must be shared. Needless to say, it was a hit. While not a clone of Dragon's Blood, it will be my version. Thanks for the inspiration. I may have to start another batch soon in order to have some left for Christmas.


----------



## oldwhiskers

That's the beauty of Skeeter Pee, Lon and DangerDave Have inspired a lot of people with the recipe and variations of the recipe. It all gets people to thinking and experimenting to make variations that have the flavors that they like.


----------



## vacuumpumpman

Thanks Dangerdave ! 
I made my first batch of dragon blood and it smell wonderfull !! 
I cant wait till bottling time, I made a skeeter pee several years ago, but decided to try it again as I have alot of people stopping over in 4 weeks or so. 
Thanks again Dave !!

will I have to back sweeten ?


----------



## tatud4life

Vacuumpumpman, you will have to back sweeten. I believe Dave's recipe called for 4-5 cups of sugar for back sweetening. I just done mine last Friday. I'm going to sneak a taste this Friday to see how things are going.


----------



## CastleWines

Going to try my first batch, has anyone used a juicer?, I have used a juicer on many of my fruit wines with great success.


----------



## keena

I actually started a thread about juicers and hope to get one soon for my rhubarb wine


----------



## skor

Made my first batch tasted great had more of a acidic taste then i thought it would


----------



## oldwhiskers

You might want to reduce the realemon some, but age seems to knock the edge off of it, at least for my taste buds. But then they may be getting numb.


----------



## UBB

Thanks a lot folks. I have been putting off making some of this for a while now and I just can't resist anymore. I don't have enough carboys to make all this stuff!!!!


----------



## oldwhiskers

UBB said:


> Thanks a lot folks. I have been putting off making some of this for a while now and I just can't resist anymore. I don't have enough carboys to make all this stuff!!!!



I'm in the same boat, I haven't bottled and all mine are full except one. Just seems like you always just need one more carboy.


----------



## southlake333

Totally. But with 1 more carboy comes 2 more ideas!


----------



## keena

I keep telling myself "after I open up 2 or 3 more carboys I'll have all the recipes I wanna try done!"...... About 10 carboys refilled later, still saying it. Lol


----------



## southlake333

I'm desperately trying NOT to buy more carboys at that limitation keeps me in check...lol. Otherwise I'd probably have 100 batches going at the same time.

I CAN QUIT ANYTIME...I just don't want to!!


----------



## Grancru

Is EC-1118 a slow starter? 

I whipped up a batch of Dragon Blood Wednesday night and pitched a packet yeast yesterday about 11 AM. So far no action. 
I want to see this blood boil. 
I want to see life in this brew.

Am I just being impatient with this yeast? Temp in the dungeon is approx. 68 degrees.


----------



## nate0001

Grancru said:


> Is EC-1118 a slow starter?
> 
> I whipped up a batch of Dragon Blood Wednesday night and pitched a packet yeast yesterday about 11 AM. So far no action.
> I want to see this blood boil.
> I want to see life in this brew.
> 
> Am I just being impatient with this yeast? Temp in the dungeon is approx. 68 degrees.


EC-1118 likes warmer temperatures. Put it in a warmer location or slap a brew belt on it.


----------



## UBB

speaking of yeast.................I didn't have any EC-1118. 

Grabbed some fermenting blueberry juice out of one other fermenters and made a yeast starter with that along with Red Star Montrachet.

Has anybody done this 'Pee with Montrachet with good results??


----------



## oldwhiskers

Grancru said:


> Is EC-1118 a slow starter?



Not so much the EC-1118 as the lemon juice that gives the slower start.


----------



## smack

so delicious. no back sweetening necessary. i'm going to start another batch today, although this time, i plan to do a secondary ferment in the individual bottles so that when it's done, i can enjoy a cold, carbonated, hard lemonade, yum! has anyone made sparkling skeeter pee yet?


----------



## tatud4life

Tasted my batch today a week after back sweetening. All I can say is O.......M........G!!!!!!!! There will be many drunken nights in my future!!!!! This stuff is wonderful!!!!!! I'm letting it bulk age while I'm waiting on more bottles.


----------



## oldwhiskers

It has turned into my favorite also, I will have to switch more carboys to it.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I'm planning to bottle mine tonight.


----------



## tatud4life

My wife tasted it today and likes it!!! I'm going to have to hide it from her I think! Lol


----------



## oldwhiskers

tatud4life said:


> My wife tasted it today and likes it!!! I'm going to have to hide it from her I think! Lol



You may have a battle on your hands, careful now, don't get your wine budget cut.


----------



## tatud4life

Lol!!! I know what you mean! She likes her wine! She can't cut my budget though. It comes out of my mowing money. She has no control over that.


----------



## ICELIA

tatud4life said:


> Lol!!! I know what you mean! She likes her wine! She can't cut my budget though. It comes out of my mowing money. She has no control over that.



Try getting a little extra $$ for it. " Honey if you are going to keep going through this stuff so fast, I will need a few extra carboys and some cases of empties. How about pitching in a little?" 

Bam! Problem solved.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm glad everyone is enjoying their Dragon Blood versions! The feedback is awesome! After I served my first batch to my wife, she said, "Whatever you need for your winemaking, honey. Whatever you need."

I love it when she says that!


----------



## southlake333

UBB said:


> speaking of yeast.................I didn't have any EC-1118.
> 
> Grabbed some fermenting blueberry juice out of one other fermenters and made a yeast starter with that along with Red Star Montrachet.
> 
> Has anybody done this 'Pee with Montrachet with good results??



I'm doing 2 batches using Montrachet right now. It looks like everything is going fine. But I haven't tasted either yet.


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Well Boo.... Bottled 30 bottles on 1 August and 2 parties later I have 4 bottles left. Guess I will go to the store and get supplies.


----------



## nate0001

ShelleyDickison said:


> Well Boo.... Bottled 30 bottles on 1 August and 2 parties later I have 4 bottles left. Guess I will go to the store and get supplies.


Better start up a continual production line.


----------



## oldwhiskers

ShelleyDickison said:


> Well Boo.... Bottled 30 bottles on 1 August and 2 parties later I have 4 bottles left. Guess I will go to the store and get supplies.



Sounds like they are turning out pretty good, good job.


----------



## dangerdave

nate0001 said:


> Better start up a continual production line.


 
Although I am trying some variations, I make this stuff non-stop. I'm trying to get a couple of months ahead of consumption because it really does get better in the bottle.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Here's mine all bottled up. No labels yet though. I think I'm going to name this one "Blood Red Sky"


----------



## oldwhiskers

Those gallon jugs would be good for game day now that football is back. 

Really looks good, good job DirtyDawg.


----------



## vacuumpumpman

We are also are having a party and the wife does not like the name Dragon Blood - I personally think it is cool . Any Ideas - I have to label it within a week or 2 - thanks !


----------



## southlake333

Very nice Derek, those are beautiful

Steve, I call my quad berry Tinkleberry Tea. But moving forward I'll be calling it Tinkleberry Juice (made with real Tinkleberries...hehe). Basically swapping the Tea for Juice because I'm tired of people thinking there's tea in it. My tropical version will be Tinkleberry Tropical...or maybe Tropical Tinkleberry...or maybe Panama Pee...then again since its kind of turning out to be an orangey pee I could just call it Ouch!


----------



## keena

Dirty those look amazing!

V pump man. Maybe you could call it mosquito juice? (like what mosquitos drink) Or something simple that still incorporates the original name. I'm sure once your guests start drinking it the name will not matter to much anyways, lol


----------



## dangerdave

Nice Derek! Very nice! I keep our gallon jugs in the fridge. They are purdy aren't they! Awesome job.

...better start some more...

<sorry, I can't help with the names, folks, it's all Dragon Blood to me>


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Thanks guys! I had some last night and it was very good. More berry flavor than I imagined. The lemon is still young and biting but as I've heard it should mellow out. I like how it looks for sure. I will be starting some more. I just need to figure out what this one is like after a month or so because I'm thinking I may adjust the lemon. Unless it fades enough and then I won't touch it except for possibly some new fruit combination.

As far as the name goes...I give all my wines a name derived from a U2 song or lyric. Hence "Blood Red Sky". Then I also give the wine type on the line below the name. This one will be "Dragon Blood - Skeeter Pee".


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Let me just say...what a difference a day makes. My refrigerator reserves after only one more day in the bottle have improved quite a bit. The harsh lemon flavor from yesterday is mellowing nicely. Time to think up what to use for fruit in my next batch.


----------



## nate0001

DirtyDawg10 said:


> Let me just say...what a difference a day makes. My refrigerator reserves after only one more day in the bottle have improved quite a bit. The harsh lemon flavor from yesterday is mellowing nicely. Time to think up what to use for fruit in my next batch.


Highly suggest the pineapple, mango, peach, banana variety. Everyone loves it.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

That does sound good. My wife wants something with cherry. Maybe a cherry lime?


----------



## southlake333

DirtyDawg10 said:


> That does sound good. My wife wants something with cherry. Maybe a cherry lime?



I would think your best bet on that would be making a skeeter lime (sub half or all lemon for lime), then add a cherry syrup to backsweeten. Dangit, I should have tried that with my lime batch...lol.


----------



## keena

I started a cherry lime like a week ago, I can let you know how it taste. I did a cherry lime before fermentation and a straight lime that I plan to back sweeten with cherry juice after.


----------



## smack

doesnt it seem like skeeter pee would actually be red instead of yellow  i was looking at my dragon blood today thinking that.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

southlake333 said:


> I would think your best bet on that would be making a skeeter lime (sub half or all lemon for lime), then add a cherry syrup to backsweeten. Dangit, I should have tried that with my lime batch...lol.





keena said:


> I started a cherry lime like a week ago, I can let you know how it taste. I did a cherry lime before fermentation and a straight lime that I plan to back sweeten with cherry juice after.


I was thinking of using some fresh cherries if I can find some and make a Dragon blood type wine. Maybe with half lime and half lemon. That might be a good combo.


----------



## keena

Maybe I'll try that, I have a cherry tree that's about ready and I'm thinking my lime is coming out to strong on the lime, half and half would have been better I think


----------



## Grancru

I whipped up 6 gals in a 15 gal. MiniBrew unit. Is there any problem degassing in this unit or does it need to be racked into a carboy first? I can't imagine it would make a difference...


----------



## dangerdave

Derek, I have a cherry/lemon clearing right now. To my surprise, the cherries did not impart any cherry flavor to the wine. It came out more like a dry red. I'm trying to figure out how much cherry koolaid to add so it will actually taste like cherries!


----------



## dangerdave

Grancru said:


> I whipped up 6 gals in a 15 gal. MiniBrew unit. Is there any problem degassing in this unit or does it need to be racked into a carboy first? I can't imagine it would make a difference...


 
Is that one of those conical fermenters? Those are so cool! I want one some day! I'd be making 15 gallon batches of Dragon Blood. I have a 32 gallon can that I can make big batches in, but the Minibrews are nice!


----------



## smack

well, its the biggest typhoon to hit this island in 13 years, so what am i doing? making wine all weekend of course! whipped up 9 gallons of dragon blood last night and diving back into the kitchen today. as you can see on the right, i bought a bottle of lime to sub in for some lemon in one batch, as suggested on this thread. i've been using a four berry blend because that's all that i can get, and like you dave, i cant really detect the cherry at the forefront either.


----------



## keena

I think that the lime will turn out awesome


----------



## oldwhiskers

Nice formation of supplies there, happy fermenting.


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Smack, did you just swap out regular juice for the fruit? What is the measurement...one gallon juice per one gallon wine?


----------



## Grancru

dangerdave said:


> Is that one of those conical fermenters? Those are so cool! I want one some day! I'd be making 15 gallon batches of Dragon Blood. I have a 32 gallon can that I can make big batches in, but the Minibrews are nice!



I get good use out of these. Now if my Dragon Blood is a hit with the ladies I can go into full production after grape season. Get them away from my stock so it can age!


----------



## smack

nope, i use frozen berries for the dragon blood. all that juice is for other miscellaneous wines i make from juice. made 3 gallons of cranberry pomegranate today. still have to make the cranberry blackberry, cranberry raspberry, cranberry grape, cranberry, apple berry, and apple grape  they all turn out delicious, would be better if i had some whole fruit to ferment on for more body, but nobody complains about the store bought juice wines.


----------



## FlashJT

For the juice wines, it is as simple as finding juice flavors you want to use and fermenting as normal? 100% juice only? All juice no water? Sounds too easy to be true, but then again so is skeeter pee


----------



## oldwhiskers

FlashJT said:


> For the juice wines, it is as simple as finding juice flavors you want to use and fermenting as normal? 100% juice only? All juice no water? Sounds too easy to be true, but then again so is skeeter pee



Yes, the one I made is really coming into it's own now and tastes great. By the way, welcome to the forum!!!


----------



## tatud4life

oldwhiskers said:


> Yes, the one I made is really coming into it's own now and tastes great. By the way, welcome to the forum!!!



Just to clarify for myself, I would simply purchase the juice and sugar. Pour juice in fermenter and adjust the specific gravity to my likings? Add nutrients and yeast and let her rip? That does sound too easy!!


----------



## oldwhiskers

tatud4life said:


> Just to clarify for myself, I would simply purchase the juice and sugar. Pour juice in fermenter and adjust the specific gravity to my likings? Add nutrients and yeast and let her rip? That does sound too easy!!



I make my apple juice wine that way and a few other juice varieties, it works pretty good. Just add sugar, adjust TA, add yeast, nutrients, energizer and yeast. My variation of Dragon's Blood used juices instead of fruit, Realemon, topped up with water, sugar, nutrients, energizer and yeast.


----------



## smack

you got it. its the easiest. i go on the road a lot, and sometimes if i'm going to be in a hotel for more than a couple of weeks, i'll even make it right in the plastic bottle. pour some out to make room for sugar and a little head space for foaming, add bread makers yeast, and stick a balloon on top with a couple pin prick holes. shake it every day for two weeks, and then drink. it wont be clear by then, but still tastes great, no nutrients or additives. i call it cider to anyone who i share it with  when i'm at home though i put it into glass carboys and let it sit for months. in a year its remarkable.


----------



## smack

FlashJT said:


> it is as simple as finding juice flavors you want to use



btw i have found that any cranberry blend turns out amazing. most recently i had an apple/currant blend that blew my mind in a couple weeks. i like dry wines, so i dont backsweeten anything, nor have i found the need to add k meta or sorbate, just my experience. i practice rigorous sterile procedure though


----------



## tatud4life

What S. G. do you normally shoot for? Do you use the same amounts of nutrients as you do in skeeter pee for a 6 gallon batch?


----------



## smack

i shoot for 1.085. when i use nutrients, i use them according to the instructions on the packaging.


----------



## tatud4life

Ok. Thanks smack!!


----------



## dangerdave

I'm about to stir up a variation on the Dragon Blood without lemon juice. Just berries (in a bag), sugar, and water. I'm going to bump the fruit up to 12 pounds in two bags, I think. This was my wife's request. The acid level has been getting to her a bit.


----------



## oldwhiskers

Keep us up to date.


----------



## southlake333

dangerdave said:


> I'm about to stir up a variation on the Dragon Blood without lemon juice. Just berries (in a bag), sugar, and water. I'm going to bump the fruit up to 12 pounds in two bags, I think. This was my wife's request. The acid level has been getting to her a bit.



Glad to hear you're going to try this. I was going to as well but my carboys will all be full for another 6 weeks. Let us know how it turns out. 

One suggestion...as I thought about this recipe I considered how much fruit is normally used in a wine vs how much is used in the skeeter pee variations. I think in order to get enough body with a correct flavor, the fruit should be increased to 3 lbs per gallon (so 18lbs rather than 12). I think part of the reason we are able to do a light bodied berry pee with such a small amount of fruit is because the lemon lends itself towards a light body. But I think removing the lemon would cause a need for alot more fruit to produce a correctly flavored wine.
 
Beyond that, acid/ph will definitely need to be tested. Good luck!


----------



## Dend78

southlake333 said:


> I think in order to get enough body with a correct flavor...



what if one were to use bananas to get the body? it would require some tinkering but you could swap out body from one source to another and have less acid to deal with and it may help it clear quicker as well. maybe not but its a thought


----------



## smack

dangerdave said:


> I'm about to stir up a variation on the Dragon Blood without lemon juice. Just berries (in a bag), sugar, and water. I'm going to bump the fruit up to 12 pounds in two bags, I think. This was my wife's request. The acid level has been getting to her a bit.



so without the lemon juice i'm not sure its a variation dragon blood. you're making a wine from mixed berries. i'm not sure but i think that's a blush, right? i'm making one now from 5 lbs frozen blackberries, 1.5 lbs frozen raspberries, and 5 lbs japanese plums. they are pretty tart so i think they will take the place of the lemon juice well.


----------



## southlake333

smack said:


> so without the lemon juice i'm not sure its a variation dragon blood. you're making a wine from mixed berries. i'm not sure but i think that's a blush, right? i'm making one now from 5 lbs frozen blackberries, 1.5 lbs frozen raspberries, and 5 lbs japanese plums. they are pretty tart so i think they will take the place of the lemon juice well.



Well, Dave came up with Dragon's Blood so to him its just another variation (which he can give another name). But yes, it would be a mixed berry wine. Depending on how many pounds of berries you add, it could end up a blush, but more likely a deep red. My Tinkleberry is a dark blush using 1 lb of fruit per gallon. Tripling the fruit should make the end result much darker.

Speaking of which, Dave, we need a new thread with pics! 

Let us know how your recipe turns out Smack, sounds yummy.


----------



## FlashJT

So I started by first batch of Dragon Blood a couple weeks ago, racked to the carboy last Tuesday with the addition of k-meta, sorbate, and bentonite. I racked again this Monday because I'm going to be out of town this week and I'm trying to have this batch ready to go by the time I go on a sailing trip next weekend. 

It's definitely cleared a lot since racking to the carboy, but it looks like it's still got a ways to go. My main concern is that there seems to be a bunch of little "berry bits" still suspended in the wine too, and these don't seem to be in any hurry to fall out. I'm assuming maybe I squeezed the berry bag too much or too hard to get these "berry bits" in the wine? Has anyone else experienced this? Do these eventually fall out or am I going to have to filter somehow? These bits fit through my mesh bag pretty easily, so maybe something like pantyhose? 

Sorry for all the questions. Normally I'd just be patient and let things work out over a few months, but given the rushed nature of this batch I'm trying to see what shortcuts are available to get this batch ready for the sailing trip.


----------



## southlake333

You can bottle and drink it even if it isn't totally clear as long as you don't mind that. You could also try adding sparkolloid to help in clearing. Is the trip over labor day weekend (meaning in just a couple days)? If so, don't add any additional clearing agents as they won't have time to drop out. Instead, just bottle and go. Better yet, bottle in 1 gallon jugs and treat it like hooch.


----------



## nick5429

So ... it doesn't sound like anyone's had a problem with it after reading through most of this thread, but in starting my first batch of Dragon Blood it kinda rubbed me the wrong way dropping all that un-sanitized fruit into the must.

Is using un-sanitized ingredients in fruit wines typical?

As an educational experience, if one wanted to sanitize the fruit, what would be the best way? 
Boil it? Seems like that would alter the flavor...
Add some KMeta on the first day and pitch on the 2nd day like normal, since we're waiting a day anyway to drive off preservatives?

I mixed up my must about 6 hours ago; I suppose there's still time for the latter if it's going to bother me... Any input?


----------



## dangerdave

I'm not exactly sure how the frozen fruit industry works (I'd have to do some research), but I'd resume in order to pass with the FDA, the fruit would have to undergo some kind of santization and/or decontamination. If you're concerned, do it your way. It sounds to me that you know what you are doing.

The best of luck to you!


----------



## smack

nick5429 said:


> So ... it doesn't sound like anyone's had a problem with it after reading through most of this thread, but in starting my first batch of Dragon Blood it kinda rubbed me the wrong way dropping all that un-sanitized fruit into the must.
> 
> Is using un-sanitized ingredients in fruit wines typical?
> 
> As an educational experience, if one wanted to sanitize the fruit, what would be the best way?
> Boil it? Seems like that would alter the flavor...
> Add some KMeta on the first day and pitch on the 2nd day like normal, since we're waiting a day anyway to drive off preservatives?
> 
> I mixed up my must about 6 hours ago; I suppose there's still time for the latter if it's going to bother me... Any input?



In answer to your question, quite often when making fruit wine, you do just as you've suggested, hit it with some k meta, wait a day, then pitch yeast. With skeeter pee and variations like dragon blood, I'd venture a guess that the acidity of lemon juice is sufficient for killing off those unwanted nasties. Just a guess.


----------



## twistedvine

following


----------



## dangerdave

smack said:


> In answer to your question, quite often when making fruit wine, you do just as you've suggested, hit it with some k meta, wait a day, then pitch yeast. With skeeter pee and variations like dragon blood, I'd venture a guess that the acidity of lemon juice is sufficient for killing off those unwanted nasties. Just a guess.


 
I completely agree.


----------



## nate0001

Man. Having problems on new strawberry rhubarb variant. Forgot to add bentonite.

Very few bubbles come out when trying to degas further.
Added more pectic enzyme.

Still nothing. Any idea what else I could try? It's been a few weeks already.


----------



## kevinlfifer

Are there any posts on a Strawberry addition/variation to SP. I can only find a Strawberry wine recipe. I have about 20 lbs of frozen strawberries to get out of the freezer before my wife flips out (again)


----------



## tatud4life

From what I can tell, just thaw them out, put them in a strainer sack, and throw them in the primary. I guess you could use the dragon's blood recipe and just substitute the strawberries for the other berries.


----------



## smack

tatud4life said:


> From what I can tell, just thaw them out, put them in a strainer sack, and throw them in the primary. I guess you could use the dragon's blood recipe and just substitute the strawberries for the other berries.



exactly


----------



## southlake333

FYI, for anyone that does not plan to drink the 15 day recipe within a month, this is what will happen.







I pitched the yeast on 6/11, bottled on 6/26 and now a little over 2 months later my bottles have that much sediment.


----------



## tatud4life

I wonder what it is! You would think that all the sediment would've settled out after fermentation and clearing has finished.


----------



## southlake333

It is most likely yeast but the important thing to note is that visibly clear doesn't mean it is fully clear. This is why people bulk age wine for months and months (which I am now going to start doing even with skeeter recipes).


----------



## DirtyDawg10

That stinks! Mine ended up just under a month from pitching the yeast to bottling. No sediment in mine still. Mine cleared after the 15days but I didn't have time to bottle it until later. One thing that may be an issue is I try to rack the wine off the sediment once it clears and let it sit another week or so before bottling. If you try to bottle with the sediment still in the carboy it is very easy to stir up the sediment and end up bottling some.


----------



## keena

Be careful, anytime I've seen sediment in a wine that started clear when bottling it has meant refermentation had begin!


----------



## Dend78

update to my dragons blood variant - yeast pitched 8/11/12 the entire batch is now drinkable as of 9/4/12 so just short of a month


----------



## southlake333

Dend78 said:


> update to my dragons blood variant - yeast pitched 8/11/12 the entire batch is now drinkable as of 9/4/12 so just short of a month



Yep, that sounds about right. It'll smooth out more in time but that first month is key.


----------



## southlake333

keena said:


> Be careful, anytime I've seen sediment in a wine that started clear when bottling it has meant refermentation had begin!



Definitely not refermentation. I used kmeta and sorbate and none of the bottles are carbonated at all. Its just stuff falling out of what I had thought was clear. From now on, everything stays in carboys for at least 2 months. I'm also going to start filtering everything to make my wine shine.

My skills get better with every batch but dang...there sure is alot to learn.


----------



## FlashJT

Just bottled my first "dragon blood" batch last night. 3 weeks to the day of starting it. I wanted to get it in the bottle this week because i'm going on a sailing trip next week and want to bring some along. It looks pretty darn clear so I'm hoping mine doesn't put out a lot of sediment over the coming weeks/months. I did rack each week (once to carboy, and once last week). There was still a fair amount of sediment in the carboy yesterday, but I was VERY careful when racking to a cleaned/sanitized bucket for sweetening/bottling. I'm usually not in such a hurry and have no problems leaving things sit for 2-3 months (or more) before bottling, so hopefully this time doesn't burn me. 

Here's a picture of the leftovers from last night that didn't get bottled:


----------



## tatud4life

DirtyDawg10 said:


> That stinks! Mine ended up just under a month from pitching the yeast to bottling. No sediment in mine still. Mine cleared after the 15days but I didn't have time to bottle it until later. One thing that may be an issue is I try to rack the wine off the sediment once it clears and let it sit another week or so before bottling. If you try to bottle with the sediment still in the carboy it is very easy to stir up the sediment and end up bottling some.



I agree. This happened to me. I should have known better, but, since it was my first attempt at this recipe, I'll chalk it up to rookie mistakes. Lol. The next batch will sit for a month longer once I rack after clearing.


----------



## southlake333

DirtyDawg10 said:


> That stinks! Mine ended up just under a month from pitching the yeast to bottling. No sediment in mine still. Mine cleared after the 15days but I didn't have time to bottle it until later. One thing that may be an issue is I try to rack the wine off the sediment once it clears and let it sit another week or so before bottling. If you try to bottle with the sediment still in the carboy it is very easy to stir up the sediment and end up bottling some.




I was really careful when racking and it was completely clear when I bottled it. Let me know how yours ends up looking in another month. BTW, the pic I took was after picking up the bottle from laying on its side. So all sediment got mixed back in. If I let it sit on a table for a while, everything would just settle to the bottom. Still, its something I want to avoid in future batches.


----------



## dessertmaker

Nate, you can still add bentonite, there are some winemakers who argue that bentonite is actually more effective when added later. I don't know personally because I always use bentonite first but I'll bet if you research it further you'll find some instructions on adding bentonite after primary.


----------



## dessertmaker

Anybody ever try dragons blood with fermentis cotes de blancs yeast? 

I've got a bunch of packs left over from making hard cider and I'm thinking about using it, but I want my wine ready in 15 days and drinkable in a month like some of these posts.


----------



## smack

dessertmaker said:


> Anybody ever try dragons blood with fermentis cotes de blancs yeast?
> 
> I've got a bunch of packs left over from making hard cider and I'm thinking about using it, but I want my wine ready in 15 days and drinkable in a month like some of these posts.



i've made it with yeast other than EC1118. it'll still turn out great. EC1118 is a notoriously fast fermenter, so if you used cotes de blancs, it may or may not be ready in the same record breaking time. as you're seeing from some posts, even using EC1118 doesn't guarantee the "15 day" process. other things are involved like temperature, and acidity. your water source will affect your ferment, so even if you do everything "right," 15 days may not (and probably won't) be the right time for you to bottle. I'd say use the cotes de blancs, and then just monitor your SG, observe for clarity, and practice all your other good wine making technique. remember, extra time is almost always a good thing, dont rush.


----------



## dessertmaker

I know extra time is supposed to be a good thing, but I'm actually OUT of drinkable wine right now!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## smack

dessertmaker said:


> I know extra time is supposed to be a good thing, but I'm actually OUT of drinkable wine right now!!!!!!!!!!!



well shoot, you can drink it in a week! it's just about as alcoholic as its going to get after about that long. it just wont be clear. clarity is really just a nuance, and an unnecessary nicety. you can make lots of drinkable stuff in two weeks or less, just dont enter it into any competitions.  pm me if you'd like my grandfather's malt liquor recipe, ready in two weeks or less and requires no carboy.no but seriously, you should let your wine clear. if you're out of drinkable wine, go buy some thirteen-dollar-per-gallon carlo rossi or similar brand and then when its done, you've also bought yourself a nice 1 gallon glass jug which will pay for itself over and over again in one gallon batches, experiments, or times when you cant exactly fill up your other larger carboys...like this


----------



## dangerdave

JJ, sorry you're having sediment problems. It is the big issue with rapid bottling. I see you are wise enough to let it sit a bit longer to clear out more. It does make a difference. The original post, here, was when I was in a hurry, and it all got consumed before anything fell out in the bottle. It's nice to know that you can whip up a batch in a few weeks if necessary, but it's best to let it sit and clear thoroughly.

Perhaps I should have stated this as a disclaimer real on...


----------



## bobrap

Just wondering about how days you guys are leaving the fruit in before you pull it?


----------



## smack

bobrap said:


> Just wondering about how days you guys are leaving the fruit in before you pull it?



Personally, I've been fermenting to dry in the primary, and leaving the fruit in and stirring daily the whole time. Once its dry, I pull the fruit, wait a day or two for the solids to settle, and then rack to a carboy. That's just me.


----------



## dangerdave

bobrap said:


> Just wondering about how days you guys are leaving the fruit in before you pull it?


 
I usually pull mine out after five days, or when the fruit becomes emaciated like a bag of dry raisins. I've left the fruit in before, as smack says, but have noticed no difference in body or flavor after this point. Personal choice.


----------



## smack

dangerdave said:


> I usually pull mine out after five days, or when the fruit becomes emaciated like a bag of dry raisins. I've left the fruit in before, as smack says, but have noticed no difference in body or flavor after this point. Personal choice.



Very true. I have been hoping that every extra day might in some way affect the color to some deeper shade.


----------



## bobrap

Ok, thanks guys. It's been in primary for almost a week and still bubbling like crazy. Really looking forward to this first batch. Made a batch of Skeeter Pee using a slurry a friend had. He grew some "local Tennessee grapes", as he called them. It was a mix of white and red. Skeeter Pee came out looking and tasting like pink lemonaide!


----------



## tucson

*Carbonate and use beer bottles*

Getting ready to do my first batch and my son in law bottles beer and has a ton of bottles (he now kegs his beer). Was wondering if I Bottle and cap like beer would it work and what would I do to give it a little fizz?


----------



## Boatboy24

tucson said:


> Getting ready to do my first batch and my son in law bottles beer and has a ton of bottles (he now kegs his beer). Was wondering if I Bottle and cap like beer would it work and what would I do to give it a little fizz?



It's an expensive option, but you could use a Sodastream machine. 

I'm curious about these too, but haven't tried them:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006CQ4ERG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## tucson

*Sodastrem*

I guess I could bottle the wine into the quart containers carbonized it and then pout into beer bottles - hmmmmmmmmm!


----------



## dessertmaker

Don't add sulfate or sorbate. Add half a teaspoon of sugar to every bottle. Make sure to use a bottle designed to hold carbonation or you'll get bottle bombs. Play with sugar amounts and time after fermentation that you bottle.


----------



## southlake333

tucson said:


> Getting ready to do my first batch and my son in law bottles beer and has a ton of bottles (he now kegs his beer). Was wondering if I Bottle and cap like beer would it work and what would I do to give it a little fizz?



Yes you can use beer bottles. I do half of my batches in beer bottles as they make for great single serve portions.

As for carbonation you have 2 options. Option 1 is to not degass. This will leave a little bit of fizz. If you are wanting full on carbonation then option 2 would be to not stabilize the wine and instead add a bit of priming sugar to each bottle which the yeast can work on to create carbonation (like you would do with beer).


----------



## keena

I suggest his second option. Then you know how much carbonation you are making, its hard to know how much you have left, more so harder to copy it if you want to make it again.


----------



## tucson

*3gallon instead of 6*

My first batch of wine making without using a kit. I am going to make triple berry dragon blood and was planning on cutting the receipt in half for 3 gallons. Also going to bottle in beer bottles with 1/2 tsp of sugar and leave out the potassium sorbate. Does that sound right?


----------



## smack

tucson said:


> My first batch of wine making without using a kit. I am going to make triple berry dragon blood and was planning on cutting the receipt in half for 3 gallons. Also going to bottle in beer bottles with 1/2 tsp of sugar and leave out the potassium sorbate. Does that sound right?



Just a technique that id recommend. start with 3.75 gallons in your primary, that way when you rack into your secondary, you can leave the sediment behind. That's just me, I always make extra. If its something that im going to bulk age, I make a gallon and a half extra, so I can fill my intended carboy, plus a gallon jug, plus leave the sediment in the primary. That way I have something to top off with when I rack from the secondary into another sanitized carboy down the road, as another thick layer of sediment inevitably falls out.


----------



## keena

Had anyone carbonated this before? I'm curious to how it taste


----------



## adamfritzsche

*Dragon Blood went pinkish?*

Good afternoon all. I had a question about my dragon blood. My dragon blood went dry, so I racked it from my primary to my carboy. The dragon blood was nice and dark red in color. I began to degas it thoroughly and I also added my kmeta and sorbate and sparkalloid. In the process of all this the dragon blood has gone to a bubblegum pink color and has been that way for hours now. Is this normal?


----------



## tatud4life

I can't think of anything that would cause that. Mine didn't do that.


----------



## dangerdave

adamfritzsche said:


> Good afternoon all. I had a question about my dragon blood. My dragon blood went dry, so I racked it from my primary to my carboy. The dragon blood was nice and dark red in color. I began to degas it thoroughly and I also added my kmeta and sorbate and sparkalloid. In the process of all this the dragon blood has gone to a bubblegum pink color and has been that way for hours now. Is this normal?


 
The sparkolloid will sometimes do that. Give it time to clear. You will see.


----------



## tatud4life

That's good to know in case the same thing happens to me. Thanks Dave!!


----------



## adamfritzsche

Indeed it is. Thank you. Maybe I can stop worrying now.


----------



## smack

Also consider that the sparkalloid is unnecessary. This turns out just as tasty and just as gorgeous without it.


----------



## dangerdave

Dragon Blood Recipe update with reduced sulfite...since I've been adding too much.

*"DRAGON BLOOD"*

*FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE*

*Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:* 

Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order:
2 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _if you want to recude the acid level use one bottle._
Water to about five gallons
20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.09): _use less sugar for lower final ABV. Stir sugar until _completely_ desolved._
1 tsp. tannin (stir)
4 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
2 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--a_vailable in most grocery store freezer sections_), frozen then thawed, in a nylon fine mesh bag (tied shut), placed in primary: _Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme.__ May also toss fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and racking._
Top water to six gallons
Cover primary
Place brew belt: _Keep temp in 70F-80F range._
Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...

Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (starter, per yeast directions): _Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains may also work well._
Stir Primary Vigorously!

Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
Check temp
Check specific gravity
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket._
Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must._
Replace fruit pack
Cover primary

Step 4: When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Discard fruit._
Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
Degas very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough!_
Add Sparkolloid* (or other cleaing agent): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered for about 30 minutes. Add hot mixture to carboy._
Allow to clear undistrubed for no less than 1 week

Step 4: When wine is clear:
Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 4-5 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely disolved): _Add more or less sugar to taste. Remember! The sugars will blend with the berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!_
Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: _This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks._

Step 5: When wine is completely clear:
Bottle in clear bottles
Note: _Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!_
__________________________________________________ ________

Starting SG was right at 1.085. Yeast was EC-1118---no slurry. I did not filter.


----------



## Dend78

hmmm already time to make another batch, the first 3 gallons didnt last long, i have about 4.5L left still a fair amount but im holding onto these 3 bottles for a year then trying them. I need a bigger lab area and more carboys i got 10 gallons of stuff going and I need more of the quick easy drinking stuff ready!!!

Party on DAVE!! Glad you were able to catch the sulfite issue before it got to far out of hand for ya


----------



## dangerdave

I have one bottle left over from the first triple berry lemon wine (pre-Dragon Blood era) I made in October of last year. I need to break it out and give it a try. The six month old stuff was superb!


----------



## pappyross

Question for Dave? I've stated my first batch from your Dragons Blood recipe, every thing is going fine, but When I was at the local wine supply shop there was fruit puree in 16 oz. cans, do you thing this would work and be a little less messy than the whole fruit?


----------



## Dend78

pappyross said:


> Question for Dave? I've stated my first batch from your Dragons Blood recipe, every thing is going fine, but When I was at the local wine supply shop there was fruit puree in 16 oz. cans, do you thing this would work and be a little less messy than the whole fruit?



my 2 cents 

it will work but the cost would most likely be higher, if you go that route just use the mesh fruit bag still and it should come out nice and clean.


----------



## smack

dangerdave said:


> Dragon Blood Recipe update with reduced sulfite...since I've been adding too much.
> 
> "



Dave, I don't know if you've considered this yet, but your recipe is so packed full of flavor, I haven't been back sweetening it. 
Since its such a fast drinker, that also reduces the need to sulfite this. I haven't been adding either and it keeps just fine. I've made dozens of wines without back sweetening, nor adding sulphite or sorbate at the end, with no trouble. My muscadine wine and port both kept well for over a year before we finally drank it all. Everything else has been consumed before making it that far, much of the reason I don't add the additional additives at the end. Just something you could experiment with.


----------



## dangerdave

pappyross said:


> Question for Dave? I've stated my first batch from your Dragons Blood recipe, every thing is going fine, but When I was at the local wine supply shop there was fruit puree in 16 oz. cans, do you thing this would work and be a little less messy than the whole fruit?


 

I agree with Dend78. You might find it more costly. I get the fruit from Walmart at about $10 a bag ($20 for one batch). I'd stick with the mesh bag to contain the pulp of the puree---has Dend said. It could be worth a try.


----------



## dangerdave

smack said:


> Dave, I don't know if you've considered this yet, but your recipe is so packed full of flavor, I haven't been back sweetening it.
> Since its such a fast drinker, that also reduces the need to sulfite this. I haven't been adding either and it keeps just fine. I've made dozens of wines without back sweetening, nor adding sulphite or sorbate at the end, with no trouble. My muscadine wine and port both kept well for over a year before we finally drank it all. Everything else has been consumed before making it that far, much of the reason I don't add the additional additives at the end. Just something you could experiment with.


 
You have a good point. If I add any sulphite at all from now on, it will be a small amount.


----------



## tatud4life

I have a batch going for a friend right now and it is super dark!!!!! I believe it is clear, but I can't really tell! It is similar to what someone posted on here about their blackberry batch. Just not as dark as in though. Lol Here is a pic. 




You can see the sediment at the bottom. I believe it's clear. I'll have to wait until it is time to rack and back sweeten to make sure.


----------



## Winofarmer

tatud4life said:


> I have a batch going for a friend right now and it is super dark!!!!! I believe it is clear, but I can't really tell! It is similar to what someone posted on here about their blackberry batch. Just not as dark as in though. Lol Here is a pic.
> 
> View attachment 5722
> 
> 
> You can see the sediment at the bottom. I believe it's clear. I'll have to wait until it is time to rack and back sweeten to make sure.



That is what mine looked like and had the same concerns I waited 3 weeks to bottle and it was beautiful in the bottle....


----------



## tatud4life

That's awesome!! I'm giving mine another week. Then I'll back sweeten and bottle a week later.


----------



## dangerdave

That's usually the time schedule I keep, Marc. It does look nice in the bottle. It's kinda dark in the carboy, though. But that's a good thing, right?


----------



## tatud4life

Yes it is Dave!! I can't wait to see it in the bottle. I wish I didn't have to send it away.  The strawberry batch that I made has turned into my wife's favorite.


----------



## dangerdave

Nice! My wife is also my biggest fan. "Anything you need!" she said.

<foolish woman >


----------



## Dend78

Dave,

I am getting ready to fire up another batch of this, my first batch the lemon was a bit more than i prefer so i am looking to cut it down quite a bit, would frozen lemon-aid concentrate work you think or does it really need to be the juice? I wasn't sure if you or anyone had tried that yet or not.


----------



## dangerdave

I haven't tried the concentrate, but it should work just fine. How much lemon juice did you use in your first batch? I'm down to using just one 48oz bottle of Real Lemon juice in mine.


----------



## Dend78

I used 1 bottle in my first batch but it was also a 3gal batch, so im going to see if it being in the concentrate form will do anything to it here's to testing!


----------



## nash1521

hi everyone well im a newbie and just got some skeeter pee going and was going to make a batch of dragons blood and had a question. all i have is a 6 gallon bucket can i ad everything in and not put that much water in untill after it ferments and i remove the fruit and then add the rest of the water thanks bill


----------



## dangerdave

I don't see why not, though I've never tried it that way. Your starting SG will be higher. What size carboy(s) do you have?


----------



## Dend78

yup cut the recipe by however many gallons you are making, i would just stick with a 5 gallon batch and try not to water it so much 1gal of water to this post fermentation will cut your abv and flavor quite a bit


----------



## nash1521

ive also got 6 gal carboys


----------



## tatud4life

First off, welcome to the family Nash!!!! I agree with sticking to a 5 gal batch. What size secondaries do you have? What yeast are you using? It is my understanding that some yeasts produce quite a bit of foam and you might spew over in a 6 gallon primary. I have only used EC-1118 so far and it doesn't foam too much. If you do a 5 gallon batch, the level will rise to about 5 1/2 gallons once you add the fruit bag.


----------



## dangerdave

Well, all you can do is try, nash. Make a 5 gallon batch---just do the math on the ingredients and add the right amount (roughly 4/5 of each additive)---and follow the directions. You'll have to figure out something when you get to racking it to the carboy. You'll need to make up for the extra space. Folks here have used marbels and blatters. I'm kinda at a lost for you at that point. Maybe someone else can give some suggestions.


----------



## Dend78

if you have a ferm shop close buy go for the 1gal glass jugs, they are like 5 bucks


----------



## keena

Theoretically if you follow the recipe exact but one gal less water, you should get higher alcohol and what not, but after that gal of water is added you would think it would level out to what you are supposed to have. Only problem I see is your abv might not be exactly what you want, but it should be close. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like it should work.


----------



## nash1521

I'm gonna try it I'll let y'all know if it works or not thanks


----------



## Dend78

i see where you are coming from keena it does seem like it should but at the same time I would think adding water in the end would cause the flavor and the ABV to go haywire, keep us posted on your findings and how you go about it nash i would like to know


----------



## keena

Ya you might be right but Flavor is what I'm worried about most. The abv might be off a little but shouldn't be far, all water will do to that is dilute it like if you added water to any other liquor, but the flavor I have no idea about. Good luck and let us know!


----------



## Dend78

keena said:


> Ya you might be right but Flavor is what I'm worried about most. The abv might be off a little but shouldn't be far, all water will do to that is dilute it like if you added water to any other liquor, but the flavor I have no idea about. Good luck and let us know!



very true, ABV is easily fixed just drink more


----------



## tucson

*First batch of Dragon Blood*

Started mt batch yesterday morning using Welch's 4 berry mix (3 lbs). I used the abbreviated receipt and added sugar to a SP of 1.900, got carried away with the sugar. Pitched the yeast this morning and in 4 hours see the photo! House sure smells good!


----------



## Dend78

tucson said:


> added sugar to a SP of 1.900, got carried away with the sugar.



1.900!?!?!?

do you mean 1.090? i think 1.900 = pure sugar lol and got carried away would then be an understatement  

looks awesome though


----------



## tucson

Ops, why is that simply instruments so hard to read! 1.090


----------



## tatud4life

Looks delicious tucson!!! I thought the same thing when I first saw 1.9!! LOL What would the ABV be with that high of a specific gravity?


----------



## tucson

According to the grapestompers.com website starting at 1.09 and if it finishes at 1.005 @ 77 degrees it would be 11.55%.


----------



## dangerdave

Well, make it your own, tucson! I have made quite a few batches (got two fermenting right now), and make it the way I like it. I always use 20 cups of sugar in a six gallon batch. The starting SG is always the same, 1.075---shooting for a ABV around 10%. I know it comes out a wee bit higher with the added sugars from the fruit, but it's just how I like it.

Yours looks good, good luck!


----------



## tucson

This was a 3 1/2 gallon batch, I started with 10 cups and kept adding a cup of sugar and the last cup pushed it to 1.090. I did the extra 1/2 gallon for spillage and to top off the carboy. 24 hrs after pitching yeast and its at 1.080 - sure smells good! 

Question- I do not plan on putting any chemicals in it when I carboy it - just let it clear on its on - comments?


----------



## dangerdave

Should be fine. Just let her sit until she's clear. Lots of folks make wine that way.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I just started my Lemon/Lime/Cherry version of a Dragon's Blood wine...if it turns out the way I'm hoping it will I'll put up the recipe. Just have to wait and see how it goes


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I realized one thing this time after following the original directions again. It calls for filling to five gallons and then setting SG to where you want with sugar. Then adding fruit etc...and topping up with water. You should check SG again after topping up with water and boost it to the original SG you want as the water will cause it to drop. I never thought to do that the first time around.


----------



## dangerdave

Good point, Derek. I guess I shouldn't figure everyone would realize that. I changed the recipe to better instruct when to test SG. I fill only up to five gallons to start with to allow room for all that sugar, then top up to six gallons when the sugar is all desolved.

I further modified the order of ingredients in the primary to adding the fruit bag last, after testing the SG. Here's the newest version (which I also modified in the Recipes section of this forum): _Please read recipe completely before beginning!_

*"DRAGON BLOOD"*

*FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE*

*Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:* 

Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order:
2 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _if you want to recude the acid level use one bottle._
Water to about five gallons
20 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG of around 1.075 after filling to 6 gallons below*): _use more/less sugar for high/lower desired final ABV. Stir sugar until _completely_ desolved._
1 tsp. tannin (stir)
4 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
2 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well
Test SG (looking for a SG around 1.075) _Note: The natural sugars from the fruit will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!_
6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--a_vailable in most grocery store freezer sections_), frozen then thawed, in a nylon fine mesh bag (tied shut), placed in primary (add any extra juice from the fruit as well): _Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme.__ May also toss fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and racking._
Cover primary
Place brew belt: _Keep temp in 70F-80F range._
Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...

Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (starter, per yeast directions): _Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains may also work well._
Stir Primary Vigorously!

Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
Check temp
Check specific gravity
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket._
Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must._
Replace fruit pack
Cover primary

Step 4: When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Discard fruit._
Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
Degas very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough!_
Add Sparkolloid* (or other cleaing agent): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered for about 30 minutes. Add hot mixture to carboy._
Allow to clear undistrubed for no less than 1 week

Step 4: When wine is clear:
Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 4-5 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely disolved): _Add more or less sugar to taste. Remember! The sugars will blend with the berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!_
Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: _This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks._

Step 5: When wine is completely clear:
Bottle in clear bottles
Note: _Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!_


----------



## DirtyDawg10

dangerdave said:


> Good point, Derek. I guess I shouldn't figure everyone would realize that. I changed the recipe to better instruct when to test SG. I fill only up to five gallons to start with to allow room for all that sugar, then top up to six gallons when the sugar is all desolved.


 
I bumped my first batch up to 1.085 SG before I topped up the water. I had a bit too much while I was making it to realize exactly what I was doing when I added the water. The second time around I was stone cold sober  and it hit me that I had just dropped the SG. So I tested it and it came in at 1.075 SG. So I figure my first batch was probably right around there. I bumped this one up again to 1.085 SG with the fruit in it so it should be pretty good.


----------



## RoyParker

Walmart in my area doesn't carry the Triple Berry blend you use.

The ones here have the addition of Strawberry as a fourth berry....
Any reason this wouldn't work?

Getting ready to try my first batch.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

It works fine. That's what I used for my quad berry Dragon's Blood.


----------



## keena

That would work, or you can buy the berries individually. Either one works just fine bud. It's really your call, you could even do just raspberries and black berries if you wanted, I'm thinking about trying that next!


----------



## dangerdave

I make a blueberry version also. I'm bottling a batch of that today, as a matter of fact. I call it "Jet Blue", after my big black Lab named Jet. You can trade the fruit out for just about any combination you like. That's the beauty of this recipe!


----------



## cbritton

I was thinking about adding a can of VH Apricot purée to a future batch. Would that work?


----------



## dangerdave

Sure, why not? It's all good!


----------



## DirtyDawg10

DirtyDawg10 said:


> I just started my Lemon/Lime/Cherry version of a Dragon's Blood wine...if it turns out the way I'm hoping it will I'll put up the recipe. Just have to wait and see how it goes



Here she is...I think it is more of a Cherry/Lemon/Lime, fermenting away. It is now down to 1.050sg from 1.085


----------



## dangerdave

It certainly looks good, Derek. Hope it turns out well! My lemon cherry came out very nice. The addition of lime should give it some extra Zing!


----------



## Hokapsig

Just tasted my Dragon Blood that I started this summer and let sit until now. The berry flavor is now coming out up front with a little tartness on the finish. I'm going to add another cup or 2 of sugar to bring more sweetness out...


----------



## geek

dangerdave said:


> I used my own personal recipe, a modified, simpler version of Lon's original skeeter pee recipe. I call the wine *Dragon Blood*. Here's the recipe. The only variation was the addition of bentonite to the primary before pitching the yeast.
> __________________________________________________________
> *"DRAGON BLOOD"*
> 
> *FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE*
> 
> *Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:*
> Starting SG was right at 1.085. Yeast was EC-1118---no slurry. I did not filter.
> 
> Yikes is right! I still can't believe it. I have two more batches going just to see if this was a miracle (Well, _Jesus_ made wine, lots of it, and very quickly, too!)



dave, I was actually going to ask around for a fruity wine because I saw people doing Strawberry-Kiwi and kept reading until I found this recipe.

I looks and sounds great.

What would cost me to get a bottle shipped to me before I experiment with your recipe? 

I have 5 gal carboys and 6gal plastic buckets. Let me do some math for a 5gal carboy.


----------



## tatud4life

You're making my mouth water Derek! Beautiful looking stuff!!


----------



## nate0001

Some of you might remember the clearing problem I had with the strawberry rhubarb. Welp, after 3 months of letting it sit in the carboy, this thing is finally clear. Time does clear all.  Benefit of that is it had a bit of time to mature.






I siphoned off a bottle to let my official taste testers try. For this one, I was going for tart and only used 1.5 cups of sugar to backsweeten. Guy said this was his favorite batch yet.


----------



## dangerdave

geek said:


> dave, I was actually going to ask around for a fruity wine because I saw people doing Strawberry-Kiwi and kept reading until I found this recipe.
> 
> I looks and sounds great.
> 
> What would cost me to get a bottle shipped to me before I experiment with your recipe?
> 
> I have 5 gal carboys and 6gal plastic buckets. Let me do some math for a 5gal carboy.


 
I am embarrassed to admit that---due to a terrible miscalculation---I am currently out of the Dragon Blood! I now have three batches clearing, along with the Dragonette and the Red Dragon Melomel in production, so it's on the way. None available right now, unfortunately.

You'll have to make your own!


----------



## Dend78

dangerdave said:


> I am embarrassed to admit that---due to a terrible miscalculation---I am currently out of the Dragon Blood!



 no dragons blood will = unhappy wife better hurry those batches along


----------



## DirtyDawg10

It's a good thing you can make it in 15 days


----------



## Dend78

very true but i dunno about your wife but 15 days of sober unhappiness whoa look out


----------



## dangerdave

Luckily for me, she loves me.  I made her a raspberry white zin last month, and she _really_ likes the tropical fruit wine I make. Those are starting to run low, though, so I need to start more of the tropical soon. In the Dragon Blood category, I have three regular batches clearing, the Dragonette is ready to bottle, and the melomel is in secondary. Johnna's green apple riesling (another of her favorates) is ready to fine, my Italian pinot grigio (with golden raisins) is bubbling in secondary, while two more kits sit waiting to start, and four hundred bottles in the garage need cleaned and delabeled.

That would all be fine, if making wine was all I did with my life!


----------



## geek

What's the recipe for the rasperry white zin?


----------



## dangerdave

geek said:


> What's the recipe for the rasperry white zin?


 
That's an Island Mist kit, geek. Thankfully, my wife loves the cheap stuff. I make the higher end kits for me!


----------



## wineforfun

I posted this on an older thread and wasn't sure if it would be seen.

Dave,
Couple of questions. I apologize if these have been addressed so direct me to the proper location if so.
I am very new to all of this, I have my first batch of wine fermenting now(Ocean Spray fruit juice, cranberry/raspberry). I just bought a 1gallon kit to start to make sure I would like it or be able to figure it out. 
Dragons Blood looks very good as I like a sweeter wine.
1. I have a 2 gal primary with lid and hole in top, when mixing the initial ingredients, do I put this lid on or a towel or the lid with airlock?
2. I don't have a brew belt, is that necessary or can I use what I have in the kit?
3.Degas? I assume this is stirring alot?
4. Can I cut all ingredients by a sixth to make a gallon batch?

Thank you for your patience. I will try not to be to much of a newbie.


----------



## keena

wineforfun said:


> .
> 1. I have a 2 gal primary with lid and hole in top, when mixing the initial ingredients, do I put this lid on or a towel or the lid with airlock?
> 2. I don't have a brew belt, is that necessary or can I use what I have in the kit?
> 3.Degas? I assume this is stirring alot?
> 4. Can I cut all ingredients by a sixth to make a gallon batch?
> 
> Thank you for your patience. I will try not to be to much of a newbie.



Air lock or lid, your choice bud. I do airlock but with this you need too push the fruit down twice a day until you take it out so a towel might be easier. I know these buckets and their lids can be a pain sometimes.

I've never used a brew belt and have made this exact recipe, so in short, no worries! just put the ferment bucket In a room that's warmer if you're house is cold. 

Degas, basically its during alot but when your get to this point you won't want to introduce alot of oxygen in the wine so stir alot but not hard enough to splash the wine around. Or let it sit for a long time and it will Degas itself over time.

And you can definitely cut the recipe down. I don't recommend it only because this wine is great tho and you will wish you made more!


----------



## geek

I also also thinking about making 1 gallon as an experiment and trial but not sure if the ingredients can be purchased in smaller quantities.


----------



## Plato

This stuff is really ready that soon? Im new to wine making and learning. Ive got a few one gallon runs mainly because I was on a budget when buying the equipment. Im up to two 5 gallon carboys now. Its addicting as hell once you start but I have sooooooooooo much to learn.


----------



## dangerdave

wineforfun said:


> 1. I have a 2 gal primary with lid and hole in top, when mixing the initial ingredients, do I put this lid on or a towel or the lid with airlock?
> 2. I don't have a brew belt, is that necessary or can I use what I have in the kit?
> 3.Degas? I assume this is stirring alot?
> 4. Can I cut all ingredients by a sixth to make a gallon batch?
> 
> Thank you for your patience. I will try not to be to much of a newbie.


 
No worries, mate! We were all newbies at one time.

Keena did a _great_ job of answering your questions, but let me convey what I do.

1. I use six gallon fermenters with lids. I do not snap them down, just place the lid on top and cover with a towel or blanket. This makes it easy for stirring and squeezing.
2. I make my wines in my basement/cellar. It stays a constant 65F-67F down there. Great for wine storage, but not so for quick fermentation. That's why I use the brew belt.
3. Like keena said---if you don't have a vacuum---stir but don't aerate. I have never been good at this---my ADD kicks in---so I use my super-fantastic allinonewinepump!
4. One gallon?! Like keena said, you will be sorry! Make a bigger batch! But, yes, this can be done. Divide by 6 and let her rip!

Good luck!  And good wine!


----------



## keena

geek said:


> I also also thinking about making 1 gallon as an experiment and trial but not sure if the ingredients can be purchased in smaller quantities.



The wine type ingredients are not that expensive and come in quantities that make like 20 gal. For example yeast nutrient is like $2 and you get enough to make many batches in it. But the berries and lemon juice are what you will need to find in smaller correct quantities


----------



## nate0001

geek said:


> I also also thinking about making 1 gallon as an experiment and trial but not sure if the ingredients can be purchased in smaller quantities.


It costs like $25 to make a 6 gallon batch. You might as well go big.


----------



## geek

wow, really??


----------



## wineforfun

dangerdave said:


> No worries, mate! We were all newbies at one time.
> 
> Keena did a _great_ job of answering your questions, but let me convey what I do.
> 
> 1. I use six gallon fermenters with lids. I do not snap them down, just place the lid on top and cover with a towel or blanket. This makes it easy for stirring and squeezing.
> 2. I make my wines in my basement/cellar. It stays a constant 65F-67F down there. Great for wine storage, but not so for quick fermentation. That's why I use the brew belt.
> 3. Like keena said---if you don't have a vacuum---stir but don't aerate. I have never been good at this---my ADD kicks in---so I use my super-fantastic allinonewinepump!
> 4. One gallon?! Like keena said, you will be sorry! Make a bigger batch! But, yes, this can be done. Divide by 6 and let her rip!
> 
> Good luck!  And good wine!



Thanks Dave. Great advice from you and Keena.
Starting with 1gal. batches for now as I am trying to learn what the heck I am doing. Will definitely graduate to the bigger batches once I figure this out.
I bought everything last night for a 1gal. batch but was wondering, do I cut the energizer, yeast starter, etc. all in 1/6? That would be like a 1/6 or 1/8 tsp. on some of the ingredients. Also, do I cut the yeast down too or use a whole package for only 1gal?
Thanks.


----------



## dangerdave

geek said:


> wow, really??


 
Definately!

2 bags of fruit @ $9 each = $18
1 bottle of Real Lemon Juice = $2.00
10 lbs of sugar = $7
Total = $27

Cheaper if you can find some items on sale. The other ingredients are negligible if bought in bulk.

That's 30 bottles for less than $1.00 a bottle. The glass bottles themselves, if purchased new, are the most expensive part. If, like me, you can find a source for free bottles (most of the time), then it's cheap wine all the time!


----------



## dangerdave

wineforfun said:


> Thanks Dave. Great advice from you and Keena.
> Starting with 1gal. batches for now as I am trying to learn what the heck I am doing. Will definitely graduate to the bigger batches once I figure this out.
> I bought everything last night for a 1gal. batch but was wondering, do I cut the energizer, yeast starter, etc. all in 1/6? That would be like a 1/6 or 1/8 tsp. on some of the ingredients. Also, do I cut the yeast down too or use a whole package for only 1gal?
> Thanks.


 
Good questions. I haven't tried what you are doing, but I would say, yes. Cut it all down to 1/6, even if it's just a pinch. Never use more of anything than you need. Maybe someone who makes gallon batches will pipe in an varify, but I would say simply divide everything by six and follow the recipe from there.


----------



## tatud4life

Dave, as far as the allinonepump, do you jut pump the must out and back into the same secondary? How often do you degas? I have looked at them. I'm might get one in the near future. 

Here's my latest bottled batch. I took the idea from Lon. It's a lemon lime pee.


----------



## geek

dangerdave said:


> Definately!
> 
> 2 bags of fruit @ $9 each = $18
> 1 bottle of Real Lemon Juice = $2.00
> 10 lbs of sugar = $7
> Total = $27
> 
> Cheaper if you can find some items on sale. The other ingredients are negligible if bought in bulk.
> 
> That's 30 bottles for less than $1.00 a bottle. The glass bottles themselves, if purchased new, are the most expensive part. If, like me, you can find a source for free bottles (most of the time), then it's cheap wine all the time!



with the addition of the carboy, if an extra is not available.....


----------



## dangerdave

tatud4life said:


> Dave, as far as the allinonepump, do you jut pump the must out and back into the same secondary? How often do you degas? I have looked at them. I'm might get one in the near future.
> 
> Here's my latest bottled batch. I took the idea from Lon. It's a lemon lime pee.


 
Here's what I do---unless I am making a kit that dictates differently. I have seven gallon plastic buckets with spigots as fermenters. When my wine has gone dry, I attach a tube and drain the wine into a carboy of appropriate size to which I have added the sulphite and sorbate. Then, using the allinonewinepump, I rack the wine into another carboy, then back to the first, then back to the second. Using racking canes and universal carboy caps, it is super easy. All I have to do is switch the vacuum tube over to the receiving carboy. Once the wine has been racked those three times, it is completely degassed. I then add the clearing agent(s). Being thoroughly degassed at this point facilitates rapid clearing.

My _Leaping Lizard_ Lemon Lime is delicious. It tastes just like a magarita! Yours looks great!


----------



## tatud4life

Thanks Dave!!! I've invested in the carboy caps to help keep the dirt and dust out of them while they are not being used. I'll have to get more carboys to allow that kind of degassing, but I need more anyway. I'm up to 2 primaries now.  The pump will be a purchase for the future I believe.


----------



## keena

wineforfun said:


> Thanks Dave. Great advice from you and Keena.
> Starting with 1gal. batches for now as I am trying to learn what the heck I am doing. Will definitely graduate to the bigger batches once I figure this out.
> I bought everything last night for a 1gal. batch but was wondering, do I cut the energizer, yeast starter, etc. all in 1/6? That would be like a 1/6 or 1/8 tsp. on some of the ingredients. Also, do I cut the yeast down too or use a whole package for only 1gal?
> Thanks.



Yea, 1/8th a tsp is common for small batches. But you can still use the whole yeast packet. If you start 2 dif batches at once you could split one packet for both but if you are only doin one, go ahead and use it all. You might go through primary fermentation in 2-3 days tho so be ready for some fast action. I had a few one gal batches of other stuff ferment dry in 3 days. Its not a bad thing if it does tho.


Edit: tatu, that stuff looks amazing! Looks delicious!


----------



## tatud4life

Thanks keena!!!! I cracked open a bottle last night and it tastes pretty good if i do say so myself! A nice hint of lime.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I do like those bottles you used too, Marc!


----------



## tatud4life

I love those bottles also Dawg!!! I have to get people to empty them for me though. I can't stand beer.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

If I lived closer I'd definitely help you out with that


----------



## tatud4life

I could use the help Derek!!! I never developed the taste for beer. Liquor, yes! Other things, yes! (Not anymore though) Beer, NO!!!


----------



## tucson

*Alcohol percentages*

Confused on alcohol %. I know the sp before pitching yeast and everyday since. My question to get a final% do I measure the sp before or after back sweeting? Logic tells me after but I'm still a newby.


----------



## tatud4life

You take your final SP reading (when fermentation has stopped) and subtract it from your initial SP reading. Multiply the difference by 133 and that will give you your ABV%. Example: starting SP is 1.085. Sap after fermentation has stopped is .994. 1.085-.994=.091. .091 x 133=12.1. You would have an ABV of 12.1%.


----------



## Dend78

to add to it, if you add juice or water to it afterwards for back sweetening or top up that number will go down.

here is my question to that tatud what does the 133 represent? i cheat and use winecalc and the abv% scale on my hydrometer.


----------



## tatud4life

I have no idea dend. That was the formula I was given by someone here. It seems to work. I don't really have any way to dispute it. Lol


----------



## wineforfun

Ok, thanks again. It has been going for two days now so I will keep you posted. I actually added more than the 1/6 amts. Dave has posted for a 6gal batch. The wine equipment kit I bought came with a bunch of the chemicals already and it had a sheet explaining what each one does and how much you should use when making a 1gal batch(since it was a 1gal. equipment kit). Hopefully the little extra of things won't hurt. I did use the whole pkg. of EC-1118.


----------



## tatud4life

Sounds great!!! Keep us posted! I don't know a lot about winemaking, but I'll help you where I can! The real experts on here are extremely helpful as well!! Just ask a question and someone will answer it. Good luck to you!


----------



## Dend78

okay here is a rookie question/comment here that may have been answered in the last 400 replies to this thread or maybe another thread all together, but due to the rate at which this stuff is ready to bottle and drink is it really necessary to top it up?

normally we top up to prevent oxidization and off flavors caused by it but really this stuff sits for less than 3 weeks in the carboy if you have a slow clear, but generally 2 weeks. from what i can tell with the banana sherry i was tooling around with i noticed no change after a month in a untopped carboy, which leads me to believe that unless you are letting it sit in a carboy for a long period of time its not totally necessary.

Thoughts?


----------



## tatud4life

I don't. I don't know if it's the lemon juice or what, but I haven't had a problem yet. Now that could change on my next batch.


----------



## keena

keena said:


> i also did start a batch of your dragon blood but i couldnt find the berry blend, so i got a bag that had strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries. so it will be a lil different but hopefully similar results!



a little different then the dragon blood as i said before, but since i started this wine its been about 5 months... still havent tried/bottles it... about to do it tomorrow! im so excited to taste it!


----------



## wineforfun

Dend78 said:


> okay here is a rookie question/comment here that may have been answered in the last 400 replies to this thread or maybe another thread all together, but due to the rate at which this stuff is ready to bottle and drink is it really necessary to top it up?
> 
> normally we top up to prevent oxidization and off flavors caused by it but really this stuff sits for less than 3 weeks in the carboy if you have a slow clear, but generally 2 weeks. from what i can tell with the banana sherry i was tooling around with i noticed no change after a month in a untopped carboy, which leads me to believe that unless you are letting it sit in a carboy for a long period of time its not totally necessary.
> 
> Thoughts?




Great question as I did top mine up and wondered the same thing as dend. Since the timespan to get to bottling is so short with DB, I wouldn't think the extra headspace would be a problem. Curious to hear what the DB experts thoughts are on this. Mine is going to get bottled this weekend. First batch.


----------



## Dend78

im not topping mine up that i have going now or from here on out, its just tearing down the abv that you shoot for if you use water of juice. im just going to backsweeten with juices/sugar(simple syrup) and be done with it. it will be effected but i believe it would be on such a small scale it wouldn't matter.

*keena* jump in there and give it a try its very good stuff, and 5 months it should be about at its prime, taste it and backsweeten more if needed let us know what you think!


----------



## dangerdave

I have the good fortune of always having some extra on hand for topping up a new batch. Plan a little ahead, and you'll always have DB around when "needed". Start a new batch today!


----------



## Dend78

I would but i change up how i make each batch


----------



## tatud4life

I would, but we drink it too fast!!


----------



## Dend78

tatud4life said:


> I would, but we drink it too fast!!



very true that's another big issue with it


----------



## Wyatt

Hi all. Wyatt here. I've been reading the threads and it sounds great. The DB. I am running with some ad libs. Thats just me. Did I mention i'm a pretty new Mad Scientist. LoL. I'm putting in 4 pounds rhubarb, 3 pounds strawberries and 1/2 pounds of blueberry's. I'm putting in fresh lemons. I pealed 12 lemons,leaving the pith out. Yuck. I then juiced them. I added the juice and peals to the must bag. The other change I made was I put in a 12 oz can of Old Orchard triple berry blended 100% juice. Then now I am finely following the directions. Thanks for the inspiration all. I would love feedback an d tips and tricks from everyone. Did I mention I'm a new Mad Scientist. Talk to you all soon. Thanks Dave!


----------



## tatud4life

Wyatt said:


> Hi all. Wyatt here. I've been reading the threads and it sounds great. The DB. I am running with some ad libs. Thats just me. Did I mention i'm a pretty new Mad Scientist. LoL. I'm putting in 4 pounds rhubarb, 3 pounds strawberries and 1/2 pounds of blueberry's. I'm putting in fresh lemons. I pealed 12 lemons,leaving the pith out. Yuck. I then juiced them. I added the juice and peals to the must bag. The other change I made was I put in a 12 oz can of Old Orchard triple berry blended 100% juice. Then now I am finely following the directions. Thanks for the inspiration all. I would love feedback an d tips and tricks from everyone. Did I mention I'm a new Mad Scientist. Talk to you all soon. Thanks Dave!


 

Sounds delicious!!! Please let us know how it turns out!!!!


----------



## dangerdave

Ecellent, Wyatt! Keep us up to date. The intent for this recipe was to make it easy to modify, adding different fruits as desired---or rinds, in your case. Experimentation is encouraged. A lot of folks here have made their own wine from this recipe. Looks like you are doing the same. Oh, and welcome to the Mad Scientist Guild. We _love_ pictures! If you can, show us what you are doing and where you're doing it.

...and you are very welcome. My pleasure, really.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Wyatt, the beauty of that recipe is that it is a great template, everything you do to personalize it to your tastes is a bonus! I add several products that suit our taste, raisins for added mouth feel and a light flavor that compliments the fruit, I add a small amount oak as well, it really compliments the final product! But those are our tastes, and everyone that have tasted it seems to love it, that puts a big ole smile on our faces!
have fun and make it personalized!


----------



## Tripplett

You guys have convinced me to try this even though I just started. I received my winemaking kit a few weeks ago with a World Vinyard California Trinity Red kit that I just racked to the secondary. Hence I'm already thinking of the next thing and DB seems like a good fit!

I checked online and the local Wal-Mart doesn't seem to carry the Wyman's triple berry. I found some Berry Medley at Trader Joe's in 1lb packages. Strawberries, blackberries, blueberries, and raspberries. The price seems right and since I had planned on adding strawberries anyway I was set. 6 packages came home with me along with 10 lbs of sugar.






I started last night, adding only 1 bottle of lemon juice. I let it all sit for 24 hrs and just pitched the yeast this evening. I'm looking forward to having something to sample in a month or so since the CTRed kit won't be drinkable for 6-12 months. Besides, I had a good reason to pick up another secondary. I'm leaning towards the Better Bottles for now due to convenience, weight, and price. I am looking for some used glass carboys locally.

I used a mix stir for mixing after adding the yeast, I hope that was ok. When I rinsed the bags out (to get ALL that juice goodness) I dumped some raspberry fruit remains into the primary so that is what you see in the pictures below.





I'm looking forward to this, thanks for all the information.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm sure it will turn out fine, Tripplett. Welcome to the site, and the best of luck in your wine making!


----------



## Pumpkinman

Awesome!!!!!! That's the same blend of berries that I use, you will love it! Don't worry about some fruit getting into your juice, not a problem!


----------



## tatud4life

Tripplet, I use the same berry blend. It turns out fantastic!! After you bottle it, give it a couple of weeks and the berry flavor will jump to the front! Like others have said before, the beauty of that recipe is the ability to mold it to your likings with different fruits.


----------



## Tripplett

Ok so I went down this morning to check on things 12 hrs after pitching yeast and this is what it looks like.




I am assuming that this is just yeast and I just need to stir it back in based on what I've read from the Quadberry Dragons Blood Skeeter Pee post?


----------



## wineforfun

I bottled my first DB this weekend. DB is crystal clear in the bottles, however, I noticed when holding them up to a light, you can see some very fine "floaters" that can't be seen in regular light. 
Also, I believe I had "fine lees" according to Dave in an earlier post. It resembled a puff/haze of smoke inside the carboy. I used a racking cane when racking and bottling, yet still got some of the fine lees. How do you a. get rid of fine lees and/or b. rack/bottle without bringing them over?
Thanks.


----------



## Dend78

yup stir it up looks like its doing really well, punch the bag down in a few times before you pull it to get most of the nasty off the outside then stir, be careful you may get heavy foaming action, put the fruit bag back in and do it again tomorrow and the day after until you are ready to rack it to the carboy.


----------



## Dend78

wineforfun said:


> I bottled my first DB this weekend. DB is crystal clear in the bottles, however, I noticed when holding them up to a light, you can see some very fine "floaters" that can't be seen in regular light.
> Also, I believe I had "fine lees" according to Dave in an earlier post. It resembled a puff/haze of smoke inside the carboy. I used a racking cane when racking and bottling, yet still got some of the fine lees. How do you a. get rid of fine lees and/or b. rack/bottle without bringing them over?
> Thanks.



one can use a wine pump, or an auto siphon works pretty well, i only seem to get fine lee's in my very last bottle using the auto siphon because i have the carboy tipped on its side to pull every bit of wine out, which that becomes the first bottle i drink, which usually doesn't make it through the first night 

just rack carefully, with the siphon you will see the fine lees starting to come off the bottom and your floaters will be less as well, and you can always filter it but my thoughts are always this, its not going to the fair so drink up


----------



## wineforfun

Thanks dend, I will keep that in mind. I may need to siphon from the top and work my way down instead of putting the cane on the bottom, right from the get go.


----------



## wineforfun

Now that I have my first bottled wine, I have a storage question. I need to store my DB (assuming it doesn't get drank first  ) I posted this on the storage section but wasn't sure how much it gets read.

I have done some searching on here but haven't found exactly what I was looking for. It sounds like 50-55 degrees is ideal to store your wine. I don't have an area to make a cellar, etc. Right now, I am just storing them in a closet in the basement (not sure, I would guess it to be 60-65 degrees). What would be the best way to store my wine? Do I need to buy something, build something, etc.?
Thanks.


----------



## Danml

Started mine today.....Question. I haven't seen anything on camden tablets in the primary. Not needed ?? 

I don't see it in Dangerdave's recipe....which is what I went by.
Am I missing something before I get ant further ?

Thanks, Dan


----------



## Tripplett

wineforfun said:


> Now that I have my first bottled wine, I have a storage question. I need to store my DB (assuming it doesn't get drank first  ) I posted this on the storage section but wasn't sure how much it gets read.
> 
> I have done some searching on here but haven't found exactly what I was looking for. It sounds like 50-55 degrees is ideal to store your wine. I don't have an area to make a cellar, etc. Right now, I am just storing them in a closet in the basement (not sure, I would guess it to be 60-65 degrees). What would be the best way to store my wine? Do I need to buy something, build something, etc.?
> Thanks.


I have read many posts on here on storage and for me I'm going with the racks from Amazon (I don't have a Sam's Club membership and seems they have a hard time keeping them in stock). 
nice cheap wine racks!

Just make sure you read the thread about bottles sliding off if they are tapered. Metal storage racks from Sam's Club For me I'm just going to put some of that non skid stuff you use in kitchen drawers - put that between the bottles and no worries.


----------



## Tripplett

Danml said:


> Started mine today.....Question. I haven't seen anything on camden tablets in the primary. Not needed ??
> 
> I don't see it in Dangerdave's recipe....which is what I went by.
> Am I missing something before I get ant further ?
> 
> Thanks, Dan


I've read all the threads on DB, many times, before starting mine. You are correct, no camden needed. The berries should be sterile when frozen and the lemon juice will ward off any baddies.


----------



## Tripplett

I now have a few newbie DB questions of my own. Since I'm new to this and the only other thing I've done is a kit I'm confused by the pictures of people using just towels over the primary. For the kit I made I was instructed to put the lid on with a bubble lock. Should I NOT do that with this recipe? I read that O2 is good for your primary but it's confusing how it could be good for one thing but not another. There is no mention of either method in the instructions.

For 'stir primary vigorously', can that be done by hand or would you recommend a drill stirrer to make things easier?

Also, step 4 says to simmer the sparkolloid for 30 minutes. That seems excessive. Why would you need to boil it that long? I've used nothing but R/O water for all my winemaking / rinsing so far.

I've also worried a great deal about sanitation. I've been spraying everything with Star San then rinsing it with R/O water before use. I was using One-Step but worried about it's questionable sanitation properties mentioned on another thread so now I just use it for cleaning. I guess it's better to be over careful than under.


----------



## wineforfun

Tripplett said:


> I have read many posts on here on storage and for me I'm going with the racks from Amazon (I don't have a Sam's Club membership and seems they have a hard time keeping them in stock).
> nice cheap wine racks!
> 
> Just make sure you read the thread about bottles sliding off if they are tapered. Metal storage racks from Sam's Club For me I'm just going to put some of that non skid stuff you use in kitchen drawers - put that between the bottles and no worries.



Mine was more a question about the temp to store them, not how, per se.


----------



## wineforfun

I am new to this too, but see my responses in red below. I am sure some more experienced winemakers will chime in too.



Tripplett said:


> I now have a few newbie DB questions of my own. Since I'm new to this and the only other thing I've done is a kit I'm confused by the pictures of people using just towels over the primary. For the kit I made I was instructed to put the lid on with a bubble lock. Should I NOT do that with this recipe? I read that O2 is good for your primary but it's confusing how it could be good for one thing but not another. There is no mention of either method in the instructions. Not necessary yet.
> 
> For 'stir primary vigorously', can that be done by hand or would you recommend a drill stirrer to make things easier? I did mine by hand, but I have only made 1 and 2 gal. batches.
> 
> Also, step 4 says to simmer the sparkolloid for 30 minutes. That seems excessive. Why would you need to boil it that long? I've used nothing but R/O water for all my winemaking / rinsing so far. I simmered mine for around 10 min. and it cleared up real nice.
> 
> I've also worried a great deal about sanitation. I've been spraying everything with Star San then rinsing it with R/O water before use. I was using One-Step but worried about it's questionable sanitation properties mentioned on another thread so now I just use it for cleaning. I guess it's better to be over careful than under.I have only been using One-Step and K-Meta so far. I am too new to tell if this has affected anything.


----------



## tatud4life

Tripplett said:


> I now have a few newbie DB questions of my own. Since I'm new to this and the only other thing I've done is a kit I'm confused by the pictures of people using just towels over the primary. For the kit I made I was instructed to put the lid on with a bubble lock. Should I NOT do that with this recipe? I read that O2 is good for your primary but it's confusing how it could be good for one thing but not another. There is no mention of either method in the instructions.
> 
> For 'stir primary vigorously', can that be done by hand or would you recommend a drill stirrer to make things easier?
> 
> Also, step 4 says to simmer the sparkolloid for 30 minutes. That seems excessive. Why would you need to boil it that long? I've used nothing but R/O water for all my winemaking / rinsing so far.
> 
> I've also worried a great deal about sanitation. I've been spraying everything with Star San then rinsing it with R/O water before use. I was using One-Step but worried about it's questionable sanitation properties mentioned on another thread so now I just use it for cleaning. I guess it's better to be over careful than under.



I stir mine by hand and it seems to work nicely. I make 6 gallon batches. My arm does get a little tired after stirring for a while, but its worth it. You can use a drill attachment. It will do just fine. Make sure you get one with a stainless steel shaft. I had a plastic one and the back and forth action broke it. 

I usually simmer my sparkolloid for 15 minutes and my secondaries are usually clear by day 2. 

I always put a lid with an airlock on my primaries, but I just lay them on top. I don't secure them. Makes it easier to get them off. 

I usually wash my equipment with dish soap and then use Star San to clean everything. 

As far as the storage question asked earlier, I put my wine in 12 oz bottles. An idea I took from Lon. My DB and various varieties are usually around 12-13% ABV, so the smaller bottles makes it a little easier for storage and monitoring friends while they're enjoying my wine. Don't want anyone enjoying too much and then driving.


----------



## Danml

Tripplett said:


> I've read all the threads on DB, many times, before starting mine. You are correct, no camden needed. The berries should be sterile when frozen and the lemon juice will ward off any baddies.


 

Ok, what about the finish process. Any camden there before bottling ?


----------



## tatud4life

Danml said:


> Ok, what about the finish process. Any camden there before bottling ?



Nope! The Kmeta and sorbate do the trick! Hot mix sparkolloid keeps everything clear! It may cloud up a bit after back sweetening, but it will clear back up in a day or 2.


----------



## tatud4life

I used the DB recipe to make a batch of cherry limeade. I cut the amount of lime juice by 2/3 and raised the fruit amount to 7 1/2 pounds. I left the cherries in the must until it had fermented dry. The final specific gravity after back sweetening was 1.012. The result tastes just like cherry cheesecake with a kick! It is absolutely delicious!!!


----------



## smack

Danml said:


> Ok, what about the finish process. Any camden there before bottling ?


it wont last long enough to need k meta anyway. i have made a couple dozen gallons of DB and i've not used any k meta, sorbate, or sparkalloid for that matter. ymmv


----------



## Wyatt

Finely a picture of my first batch of db. Hissing at me but not much in the bubbler? It smells awesome.


----------



## tatud4life

My bubblers never really do anything either Wyatt. Don't fret it.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Add heat Marc! You will see it come to life!


----------



## Wyatt

What temp should I keep the primary at? How about the secondary? Thanks guy's.


----------



## tatud4life

I had thought about that Tom, but I have yet to invest in a fermenter belt. I have been keeping everything around 72 degrees while fermenting. I get a decent amount of foam on top for EC-1118, but nothing spectacular. Would the heat speed up the fermentation process?


----------



## dangerdave

I'm glad Marc has been covering the questions. He's a real Dragon Blood Pro...and I've been fighting a cold. Ugh!

Just to make sure everything was covered. No sulphite in the primary. The sparkolloid does not _have_ to be boiled for 30 mintes. Follow the package instructions. I usually put the sparkolloid and water mixture in a pan on my hot plate before racking from the primary, stabilizing and degassing. By the time I get all that done, it's ready to dump.

I store all of my wines on their side, in cubbies, in my Lab. Cubbies are getting full, so I'm building a rack even as we type.

I try to keep my fermentations up near 80F. The EC-1118 can handle it, and it does speed things up.

I never snap down my primary lids. Just set the lid on top, and cover with a blacket or towel to keep out bugs and stuff. Squeeze and stir daily until the wine is dry...then proceed.

Wyatt: Keep it going! It looks awesome!


----------



## geek

Good summary Dave....

I am almost ready to start my own DB....


----------



## Pumpkinman

I usually won't use EC - 1118, it will ferment a rock, but it doesn't bring out any favorable characteristics, and I've been told by hard core cider makers that EC - 1118 kinda kills the fruit flavors and aroma.


----------



## geek

Tom, did you use that yeast this time or a different one for the DB ?


----------



## dangerdave

Pumpkinman said:


> I usually won't use EC - 1118, it will ferment a rock, but it doesn't bring out any favorable characteristics, and I've been told by hard core cider makers that EC - 1118 kinda kills the fruit flavors and aroma.


 
Almost all of the kits I have ever made, including high-enders, have used the EC-1118. Seems like a universal constant.

I have used other yeasts. They seem to work just about the same on the DB, as far as my unsophisticated pallet can tell. 

Maybe it's time to do a Dragon Blood Yeast Comparison Study. Any excuse to make some more!


----------



## tatud4life

Aw stop it Dave!!! You're making me blush! LOL I wouldn't say that I'm an expert by any means, but I've made a few batches of the stuff since July. I'll have to invest in a brewer blanket then and heat things up a bit and see what happens.

I have only used EC-1118 so far and am wanting to try different yeasts to see if the taste or body changes any. I've thought about using Red Star Montrachet. (I think that is right.) 

I can't seem to keep the stuff around long enough to build up a supply, but, if Santa is good to me this year, I should have the capability to have 4 batches going at once in the primaries and another 8 batches going in the secondaries at different stages. My goal is to have 4 fermenting, 4 clearing, and 4 resting after back sweetening at all times!!!! If I can;t keep up with that, hen my wife and I are drinking waaaaaaaaay too much and need to seek help asap!!!!  LOL


----------



## Pumpkinman

I do use yeast, and yep, most all kits will include Lalvin EC-1118, it is a fail safe yeast, it is also recommended for stuck fermentations, it is a beast! That said, I try to select yeasts that will bring out the best characteristics of the wine I am making, the temperature and alcohol thresholds are among what I look for, for instance, for the latest batch of Red Dragon Melomel, I used K1-1116,


> The natural fresh fruit aromas are retained longer , Fruit wines and wines made from concentrates poor in nutrient balance benefit from the capacity of K1V-1116 to adapt to difficult fermentation conditions, s a rapid starter with a constant and complete fermentation between 10° and 35°C (50° and 95°F), capable of surviving a number of difficult conditions, such as low nutrient musts and high levels of sulfur dioxide (SO2) or sugar. Wines fermented with the K1V-1116 have very low volatile acidity, hydrogen sulfide (H2S) and foam production


I also substituted this for the EC-1118 in the first kit I've ever made, German Gewurztraminer (in progress) because it tends to express the freshness of white grape varieties, but 71B-1122 would have worked as well.

Does this make a difference? Maybe, but when I hear that EC-1118 actually strips away the natural aromas and flavors, I tend to want to stay away from it.

When I was making Moscato, I actually searched Italian websites to see which type of yeast some of the traditional Spumante makers were using, and used the same type DV10 and QA23 (S. cerevisiae bayanus), I used a yeast developed for Brunello for my Amarone (BM45).

If it is available and the costs are reasonable, I like to use the yeast developed for a particular wine, or developed to bring out of a wine, what we are looking for. 
I think it makes the whole wine making process a bit more personalized and a lot of fun!!!!


----------



## harmony24

Is this ready to drink once it is bottled or do you need to bottle age.


----------



## Tripplett

So is there always a cap of what I am guessing is yeast on top? I have been stirring this back in twice daily. It's been 5 days since I started my batch and I'm now at 1.050. Each time I stir vigorously I get co2 foam so I know I'm getting somewhere. The sg keeps going down slowly (72 deg). I am concerned about all the stuff on the top. This is my second wine batch and the first was a kit so this is all new to me but I'm loving experimenting. Thanks. 
Joe


----------



## Fordguy

Triplett! Sounds like your on the right path, however, they are folks on here much more knowledgeable than me.

I have been sitting here drinking my some of my second batch of DB and I just gotta say thanks to Dave...and Lon too.

I have learned so much by reading this forum, and I haven't posted much. But my compliments to all of you "experts" on 
Here, I am thankful for you all, this is a great and enjoyable hobby.....oh, Merry Christmas to you all.


----------



## tatud4life

Tripplett said:


> So is there always a cap of what I am guessing is yeast on top? I have been stirring this back in twice daily. It's been 5 days since I started my batch and I'm now at 1.050. Each time I stir vigorously I get co2 foam so I know I'm getting somewhere. The sg keeps going down slowly (72 deg). I am concerned about all the stuff on the top. This is my second wine batch and the first was a kit so this is all new to me but I'm loving experimenting. Thanks.
> Joe
> 
> View attachment 6402


 
You are looking perfect!!! Once your specific gravity gets to around 1.010 you will notice the cap production really slowing down. I guess that was the key for the old timers back in the day to know when the fermentation had finished. I keep mine at 72 degrees also and it looks just like yours. All that stuff on top will soon be on the bottom and you can rack the liquid off of it.

I do have a question about yeast though. In Lon's recipe, he uses the slurry from a batch of wine in his skeeter pee. I understand that yeast is a living organism and that it consumes the sugar and regurgitates alcohol. How many times can you re-use a slurry before the yeast are too pooped to poop alcohol? Is that something that you would even want to do? Would the blending of flavors from more than one wine be too much?


----------



## smack

harmony24 said:


> Is this ready to drink once it is bottled or do you need to bottle age.


its ready to drink right away


----------



## keena

I actually have some that's about three months old and its great! But it is good right away as well.


----------



## tatud4life

keena said:


> I actually have some that's about three months old and its great! But it is good right away as well.



How in the world have you been able to keep it around for that long?!?! Lol. I'm finally able to start building up an inventory for the next end on the world prediction.


----------



## keena

I started it, racked it to secondary, then went off to school for three months while all my wine sat there aging. It sucked while I was away, but I'm happy with the results now. Lol


----------



## tatud4life

That's how you did it. Lol. That would suck knowing that you have a batch of wine waiting on you.


----------



## keena

Especially when I read here how everyone loves it, thanks alot guys! Lol

Luckily I had my dad there to to off the airlocks for me


----------



## wineforfun

Just drank a bottle of my first DB. It was awesome. I only made a gallon. I still have 3 bottles that I am letting sit for a couple/few months to see if the flavor changes. I just racked a 2 gallon blackberry DB batch. I need to get ahold of some 6 gallon carboys so I can make bigger batches.
Thanks to everyone for the help with the DB.


----------



## Tripplett

Last night my DB was at 1.000 so I racked it into secondary and added the chemicals for step 4. I didn't have K-Meta powder and the instructions on my Camden tablets say 1 crushed tab per gallon. Hence 5 crushed tablets went in. This morning i see a post that references Keller's website where it says 1/4 tsp of powder = 45ppm in 5 Gannon's but 5 crushed tablets equals 75 ppm for 5 gallons. Since I'm making 6 gal that puts me at 62.5 ppm. Luckily i forgot this was a 6 gal batch - newbie. Am I still ok or did I mess this up? From what I've read I just need to introduce some O2. I'm in no hurry to clear and bottle and will rack again at least once. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Samh200

1. Do you use campden at the begining? 
2. Will red star Montrachet yeast work?

Thanks....


----------



## dangerdave

Tripplett, don't worry. Just splash rack it next time around. That will drive out some of the sulphite. I used to add way too much sulphite to my DB (on the order of 6x the recommended amout) and everyone still loved it. I am not recommending doing that, mind you. Your will be loved by all!

Sam. No sulphites (campden tablets) in the must. It will be fine without it as long as you are using store bought frozen fruit. The Montrachet will work fine. Just keep it warm (72F-80F).

Good luck, everyone.


----------



## Samh200

thanks Dave... this stuff smells great!!!!


----------



## ericrdb

Hi All, I've got a batch going now and I'd like to start a some Cherry/Lime/Lemon flavor too.

I've seen some people post "about to brew cherry/lime" and "just finished - wow!" as well as "ooh, not a lot of cherry flavor the way I did it...". 

Can anyone offer a tried and true varient? Cheers!


----------



## wineforfun

So to make a cherry lime or anything lime version of DB, I assume you can just substitue the lime juice for lemon juice? or am I making a bad assumption?
I think next up for me is the DB melomel.


----------



## keena

Yup, I made lime and its really good. Also did cherry lime and added cherry before fermentation and it taste like cough syrup, so I don't suggest that. I just racked a gallon if the lime wine into cherry juice after sorbate and meta so I'll see how that goes soon.

As for my dragon blood, just tried it after sweetening and sitting for a week. Its almost 6 month old dragon blood. This is in my top 3 wines made! Its so good


----------



## tatud4life

I made a batch of cherry limeade a little bit ago and it is wonderful!!! I substituted lime juice for the lemon juice in Dave's Dragon's Blood recipe, but I only put about 36 ounces in. I used 7.5 lbs of cherries. It has a wonderful cherry flavor and it has an after taste that resembles cherry cheesecake. It is well worth the time and effort !


----------



## keena

tatud4life said:


> I made a batch of cherry limeade a little bit ago and it is wonderful!!! I substituted lime juice for the lemon juice in Dave's Dragon's Blood recipe, but I only put about 36 ounces in. I used 7.5 lbs of cherries. It has a wonderful cherry flavor and it has an after taste that resembles cherry cheesecake. It is well worth the time and effort !



Jealous! Mine didn't turn out. How long has yours aged?


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I've received quite a few compliments on mine. The cherry flavor is nice but the lime is subdued which is fine with me. Here's a link to how I made mine...I will be making it again.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/cherry-lemon-lime-dragons-blood-34696/


----------



## Tad53lewis

Hi,everyone.I am new here


----------



## Pumpkinman

Welcome aboard


----------



## tatud4life

keena said:


> Jealous! Mine didn't turn out. How long has yours aged?



I made it 1 month ago. I didn't do any bulk aging. It has been in the bottle for a month. The flavor was present as soon as I bottled it. My wife loves it!!!!! It will definitely be made again and again.


----------



## kubi3875

thanks dave u and everyone else here inspired me to try some thing else other than a couple of kits ive done.Im on my third day in the fermenter with a four berry db and already down to 1.042 from 1.075 and now my basement smells so good ive spent all my evenings there (that dont make my wife happy) but cant wait for the final product


----------



## ericrdb

Thanks for the tips on the Cherry Lime - I'll just have to make all the variants...


----------



## VitruvianMan

Has anyone substituted acid blend for the lemon juice? I skimmed through a bunch of the posts but didnt see anyone mentioning using acid blend instead of lemon juice Im starting a batch this weekend and was curious? Im gonna use 3 tsp of acid blend for a 3 gallon batch so if anyone has some insight lemme know thanks!


----------



## Pumpkinman

Cool, I think this will be great, keep us posted!


----------



## wineforfun

VitruvianMan said:


> Has anyone substituted acid blend for the lemon juice? I skimmed through a bunch of the posts but didnt see anyone mentioning using acid blend instead of lemon juice Im starting a batch this weekend and was curious? Im gonna use 3 tsp of acid blend for a 3 gallon batch so if anyone has some insight lemme know thanks!



I believe you would want to use 1 1/2 tsp for a 3 gal. batch.


----------



## VitruvianMan

Ok I made a 3 galon batch its al in primary sitting for the 24 hour perid, but its almost to the top with only an inch of clearance I know it will be a pain to stir but I will deal with that. What Im worried about is when I add yeast will it overflow? I can go get bigger primary but dont want to if I dont have to this go around


----------



## dangerdave

VitruvianMan said:


> Has anyone substituted acid blend for the lemon juice? I skimmed through a bunch of the posts but didnt see anyone mentioning using acid blend instead of lemon juice Im starting a batch this weekend and was curious? Im gonna use 3 tsp of acid blend for a 3 gallon batch so if anyone has some insight lemme know thanks!


 
My Dragonette Recipe is just that. In a six gallon batch, I replaced the the lemon juice with 3 tsp of acid blend. It came out very smooth and fruity. My wife loves it. Check out the recipe.


----------



## VitruvianMan

Perfect, thanks for the recipe


----------



## ryleehack

Hello,

I'm just trying out a 1 gallon batch of the dragon blood - its my first attempt at winemaking (I also have a kit in the clearing stage). 
I started with an SG 1.082 on the 22nd Feb, 1.028 25th Feb and just taken a reading of 1.005 26th Feb. I have followed recipe but instead I am using:

150ml Jif Lemon Juice
500g of frozen (and thawed) summer berries from Tesco
4.5L Water
1kg of brewing sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1 tsp pectic acid
1/2 tsp citric acid
1/2 tsp tannin
1 packet Yeast

If it tastes as good as it smells i'll be getting a full batch on asap! I'll let you know how quickly everything clears.

Ryan


----------



## tatud4life

Welcome to a hobby that's as addictive as getting tattooes!!!! I started last year in June and love it!!! I've made about 10 batches since! You'll live the Dragon's Blood. Z


----------



## dangerdave

Hope you enjoy it, Ryan. Make more soon!


----------



## 11C_Recon

kubi3875 said:


> thanks dave u and everyone else here inspired me to try some thing else other than a couple of kits ive done.Im on my third day in the fermenter with a four berry db and already down to 1.042 from 1.075 and now my basement smells so good ive spent all my evenings there (that dont make my wife happy) but cant wait for the final product



Hm, mine is down to 1.040 from 1.090 but I'm not getting an awesome smell. Could it be that I just got a couple bags of bad fruit? Mine smells like yeasty old fruit, lol, can't think of another way to put it. maybe I'm squeezing the bag too much?

How does everyone else's smell after a couple days of fermentation?


----------



## 11C_Recon

I used 6 pounds of Wyman's triple berry, 1 pound of thawed - frozen strawberries, and 2 bananas (bananas added 2 days after yeast pitched).

Oh almost forgot, The fruit was still semi frozen (or maybe just cold) when I added it to primary, but The temp was 74 when I pitched the yeast. Could that have affected anything?


----------



## dangerdave

Don't fret the process, Recon. It will turn out great! I squeeze the bags of fruit in mine like crazy, getting as much of the juices out as I can each and every time I squeeze. It sounds like yours is doing fine! Keep to the recipe and you will be pleased.

The .pdf file located here (http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/wine-made-easy-36430/) is the most up to date version of the recipe---FYI.

The ongoing discussion about this recipe continues here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f2/dragon-blood-triple-berry-skeeter-pee-33076/index9.html


----------



## 11C_Recon

dangerdave said:


> Don't fret the process, Recon. It will turn out great! I squeeze the bags of fruit in mine like crazy, getting as much of the juices out as I can each and every time I squeeze. It sounds like yours is doing fine! Keep to the recipe and you will be pleased.
> 
> The .pdf file located here (http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/wine-made-easy-36430/) is the most up to date version of the recipe---FYI.
> 
> The ongoing discussion about this recipe continues here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f2/dragon-blood-triple-berry-skeeter-pee-33076/index9.html



Thanks for the reassurance, making this wine is fun. Also, thank you for your service as a firefighter.

I used 5 tsp of a blend of nutrient and energizer that my lhbs sells (instead of the two, i hope that didn't bugger it up). I think it's called superferment.

One more thing, after reading your awesome PDF, I noticed the honey version, and it sounds awesome. Any benefit in back sweetening the original DB with honey? and can any honey be used? or should I go for organic?


----------



## dangerdave

When I made the melomel, I used honey in the primary to replace the sugar, but did not back sweeten with honey (I didn't have any left)---I used sugar for that. I know some others did. Maybe they will give you some guidance on that.


----------



## wineforfun

I also stuck with backsweetening the melomel with sugar. I suuuuuuuuure like the melomel better.
Next time I make it, I will backsweeten with honey just to see the difference.


----------



## kubi3875

11C_Recon said:


> Hm, mine is down to 1.040 from 1.090 but I'm not getting an awesome smell. Could it be that I just got a couple bags of bad fruit? Mine smells like yeasty old fruit, lol, can't think of another way to put it. maybe I'm squeezing the bag too much?
> 
> How does everyone else's smell after a couple days of fermentation?



Mine was a little musty to but I still thought it smelt really good could not wait to drink it and now I can't stop drinking it


----------



## Reilly

Is it ever too late to add some additional fruit or sugar? I pitched the yeast 2 days ago and have been checking daily. I started SG at 1.070 ( a little lower that I wanted) but thought the sugar from the fruit would bring it up some. I have seen where bananas and raisins and even oak have been added and thought this might be good to try. Is it too late? I'm not trying to make this in record time, just a good batch.


----------



## 11C_Recon

Reilly said:


> Is it ever too late to add some additional fruit or sugar? I pitched the yeast 2 days ago and have been checking daily. I started SG at 1.070 ( a little lower that I wanted) but thought the sugar from the fruit would bring it up some. I have seen where bananas and raisins and even oak have been added and thought this might be good to try. Is it too late? I'm not trying to make this in record time, just a good batch.



I added bananas 3 days after pitching, and mine fermented down to .994 with no issues. You may want to add a tad more sugar if you aren't happy with the initial SG as well. From what I've read, adding sugar late will not hurt, unless too much is added. I'm assuming just to take the current SG, and add enough sugar to bring it up .015 (If 1.085 was what you were aiming for).


----------



## tatud4life

I have not been able to purchase any glass carboys so I've had to let 2 batches of Dragon's Blood sit for a few days in the primaries after fermentation finished. I hope this doesn't affect the finished product. Fingers are crossed!!!


----------



## dangerdave

I've done that before, Marc. It should not be an issue.


----------



## geek

I'm starting my 2nd batch either today or tomorrow, this time I will try one of those frozen fruit packages from Walmart which I think have other fruits like pineapple and mango......I really like those 2 fruits so I hope this combination with a another pack of frozen tripple berries is a good combination..!!


----------



## tatud4life

dangerdave said:


> I've done that before, Marc. It should not be an issue.



Thanks Dave!!! I racked the Strawberry today. The Blackberry will have to wait until next week when I get a couple more glass carboys. Steve's allinonepump is absolutely AWESOME!!!!!


----------



## VitruvianMan

So Im gonna move up in the world and try a variation of Db, but I was wondering if anyone has used grapefruit juice instead of lemon juice and or if it was good? Or if anyone thinks it would have enough acidity in it to take place of the lemon juice? I made one batch using acid blend and it was noticeably sweeter, now I wanna try something different.


----------



## tatud4life

VitruvianMan said:


> So Im gonna move up in the world and try a variation of Db, but I was wondering if anyone has used grapefruit juice instead of lemon juice and or if it was good? Or if anyone thinks it would have enough acidity in it to take place of the lemon juice? I made one batch using acid blend and it was noticeably sweeter, now I wanna try something different.


 
I've used lime juice before, but I haven't tried any other type of juice yet. There is thread on here where someone made a mojito version using grapefruit juice. Might want to check it out.


----------



## keena

Reilly: I think your sg is good for this recipe. Totally up to the person drinking it (you) but I really enjoy this wine a lil weaker than normal, has wonderful flavor! Adding sugar at this point is ok though, just do the whole boiling it down in very little water thing and let it cool to room temp before adding.

Edit, just realized this was a few days ago. Lol.


----------



## jimpeterson

*Inquisitive minds want to know...*

Good morning, Dave...Thanks for all the super info on your Dragon Blood, but I'd like to know if you are drinking the wine warm or chilled.
Thanks again


----------



## dangerdave

Chilled is definately the way to go! My wife uses frozen fruit (pineapples, peaches, mangos, strawberries) to keep hers cold. The fruit soaks up the wine, very tastey.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I think that these is the way all wine should be made.. I am doing a straight blackberry, straight strawberry,and straight peach..all 3 gallon batches.
You get to drink when its young...I am too old to wait a year to drink it.


----------



## dessertmaker

I've done it before. Compared to real DB there's a lot of kinda odd esters and off flavors going on. It's drinkable, but pretty much hooch. Cheap alcohol worth less than the container it's in. 

Dragons blood made the right way is drinkable basically as soon as its degassed and cleared. The flavor just improves over time up to a year and some say gets even better afterwards. My entire DB batch typically goes bottoms up somewhere before 6 months. A few bottles get held over for a year or so because they taste better for it.

I got into this hobby to make good wine. And I've made some that lives up to that goal. I certainly wouldn't call myself a vintner yet, especially compared to a lot of the people on here. Ive learned so much over the past year just watching how these experienced guys and gals respond to problems other people had. I've learned and experienced enough to throw out a little advice of my own every now and then. So here's mine:

Anybody can make a quick cheap hooch, and there are tons of shortcuts those of us outside of prison can take to speed up the process. But every time you shortcut, you lose something in your wine.

How is it even worth it to spend money on winemaking equipment if your end product consistently comes out inferior to a cheap gas station flavored malt beverage because you shortcutted it all to death? 

I challenge you to make a "control" batch of real DB, no shortcuts, and compare the two of them in 6 months.

Start on a "big" batch every 3 months or so and build up an inventory of wine. Then waiting a year is like WHATEVER. My first kit wine took a year to come around, but I was drinking skeeter pee and dragon blood 3 months into the wait because I started it at the same time. And I kept it going.

Patience, not shortcuts, makes good wine.

Okay. I will climb down off of my soap box. That felt weird.


----------



## jimpeterson

*Dragon Blood Stuff...*

Hi, Guys...I started a batch of D.D. five days ago, and everything is looking good; working away, just like I knew what I was doing.
SG is now at 1.028 
After I sobered up, I realized I forgot to add the yeast nutrient, in the beginning. 
Should I forget about it, or should I add it now?
Thanks


----------



## jamesngalveston

I've done it before. Compared to real DB there's a lot of kinda odd esters and off flavors going on. It's drinkable, but pretty much hooch.

What is the real dragon blood.
The triple berry.....
If I substitute one berry from the other,but follow the same exact likeness of the rest, is that called hooch.
And I thought the dragon blood was an off shoot of skeeter pee.
I am confused.
So if I use the triple berry its dragon blood which is wine.
But if i substitute berries its hooch..
Correct me if I am wrong.
What is a controlled batch of dragon blood.
Is it not the same exact recipe found here.
I am making the exact same recipe but using blackberry/strawberry.
Instead of triple berry.
I live on an Island, we have a small Wallmart, and even smaller grocery stores, Triple Berry is something they do not sell.


----------



## dessertmaker

jamesngalveston said:


> I've done it before. Compared to real DB there's a lot of kinda odd esters and off flavors going on. It's drinkable, but pretty much hooch.
> 
> What is the real dragon blood.
> The triple berry.....
> If I substitute one berry from the other,but follow the same exact likeness of the rest, is that called hooch.
> And I thought the dragon blood was an off shoot of skeeter pee.
> I am confused.
> So if I use the triple berry its dragon blood which is wine.
> But if i substitute berries its hooch..
> Correct me if I am wrong.
> What is a controlled batch of dragon blood.
> Is it not the same exact recipe found here.
> I am making the exact same recipe but using blackberry/strawberry.
> Instead of triple berry.
> I live on an Island, we have a small Wallmart, and even smaller grocery stores, Triple Berry is something they do not sell.



Somebody up the line did a post edit. Fruit punch instead of water to make the end product drinkable faster was what that response was to. Confusion's my fault for not quoting them. Sorry buddy. Fruit on! Dragon blood and skeeter pee are my faves. Neither one beats a force carbed cranberry lemonade skeeter pee though.


----------



## dangerdave

jimpeterson said:


> Hi, Guys...I started a batch of D.D. five days ago, and everything is looking good; working away, just like I knew what I was doing.
> SG is now at 1.028
> After I sobered up, I realized I forgot to add the yeast nutrient, in the beginning.
> Should I forget about it, or should I add it now?
> Thanks


 
If it's already going good, Jim, I'd just leave it out. Let 'er cook!


----------



## jimpeterson

Thanks for the help, Dave...


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dave I could not help my self....It was so hot today, the pool so blue...I made a margarita with my first bottle of dragon blood....was it good.
after this 6 gallons are gone tomorrow ill tell you..
Excellent.


----------



## dangerdave

Glad you like the recipe, James. DB is a virual staple at our house. I'm just finishing up 18 gallons and folks are already trying to lay claims. So, I'm making more.


----------



## frosti

Think I'm gonna try this with 3 lbs frozen peaches..raspberries and 4 lbs frozen local blackberries. Anyone else tried this combo


----------



## jamesngalveston

danger dave is the master here, so run this by him.
you get tons of lees with peaches, i would increase water to about 6 1/2 gallons....that way when you rack, you will have app 6 gallons, if you can .just my opinion....


----------



## frosti

I've thought of that. Tried frozen peaches b4....they don't like to play nice lol


----------



## dangerdave

That sounds like a good combo, frosti! Pick whatever fruit you like. That's the fun of this recipe. Did you get the latest version of the recipe in the Wine Made Easy pdf file?: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum...rry-skeeter-pee-33076/index11.html#post425337


----------



## frosti

Yes I did...thank you very much for putting in the time to do this.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree, peaches do not play nice at all...but, if you can manage to get some that has the peachy taste, and survive long enough to drink it, its really good.


----------



## frosti

Ended up doing 4# frozen peaches 2# raspberries and 3# blackberries. And 2 bottles of real lemon juice. My first try at any skeeter pee. Got some premier curvee yeast. And rc212. Make much difference which to pitch tomorrow?


----------



## dangerdave

The rc212 is primarily for big reds. For that one, the "redder the better" is what they say. So not the rd212.

I have used the Premier Curvee before with good results. It starts fast and is very tolerant of both temp and acid content. It's also low-foaming, so I'd go with this one.

Good luck with this one, frosti, and let us know how it turns out.


----------



## frosti

Awesome...thx. just starting on getting wax and lables on some blueberry I just finished. Very very tasty


----------



## jamesngalveston

Well Dave, I added sugar today, without degassing all the way...
Now i know why you make it clear to degass thouroghly.....volcano


----------



## dangerdave

Been there! Hated that!


----------



## ou8amaus

Well Dave, been making kits for 15 years but tonight I took the plunge and pitched the yeast on my first DB. Based on the unanimously positive feedback I have been seeing I am really excited. Thank you for the recipe!


----------



## dangerdave

Very good, ou8amaus! I hope you enjoy the recipe. It's a fun wine!

I'll be out of the hosue this week---going to Virginia Beach---but if you have any questions/concerns, ask some of the others here. We have a fine group of DB experts that can help steer you straight. I'll check up on you next weekend to see how the fermentation's going.

Good luck! And good wine! 

Edit: Did you get the pdf file (Wine Made Easy) containing the most recent version of the recipe? Located here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum...rry-skeeter-pee-33076/index11.html#post425337


----------



## Elmer

Day 13 My DB is now down to 1.020
Reading and re-reading the directions am I to understand that DB never goes to secondary Ferm in a carboy?


----------



## wineforfun

Elmer said:


> Day 13 My DB is now down to 1.020
> Reading and re-reading the directions am I to understand that DB never goes to secondary Ferm in a carboy?



That is correct, usually no need to. Did you use the exact recipe of Dave's, or change it up? I ask because DB is normally down below 1.000 in 7-10 days on average.


----------



## Elmer

wineforfun said:


> That is correct, usually no need to. Did you use the exact recipe of Dave's, or change it up? I ask because DB is normally down below 1.000 in 7-10 days on average.



I used exact recipe*.
I keep stirring and squeezing. I have the brew belt on, the lid off 1/4 of the way.
All I can think of is that my house does fluctuate a bit with the heat and cold at night but the brew belt was supposed to even that out.

The only thing I can think of is my house is a black hole for fermentation.
All my fermentaation is slow!






* except 2 extra cups of sugar (I had 2 cups left in the bag, and I like my wine a little bit stronger)


----------



## wineforfun

I got nothing for you then. My house stays around 68-72 (depending on time of year) and my DB is usually below 1.000 in 8-9 days. My starting SG is normally around 1.080. I don't use a brew belt. 
I think just wait it out and let it drop. Sounds like it is fermenting, albeit a little slow.


----------



## Elmer

wineforfun said:


> I got nothing for you then. My house stays around 68-72 (depending on time of year) and my DB is usually below 1.000 in 8-9 days. My starting SG is normally around 1.080. I don't use a brew belt.
> I think just wait it out and let it drop. Sounds like it is fermenting, albeit a little slow.




It could be that Since I added 2 extra cups, maybe that added to the extra sugar content of the wine and I just have more sugar to burn!


----------



## jamesngalveston

one of my batches is still fermenting in secondary...my hydrometer was way off..
I moved to secondary when it hit 1.000, but it was not 1.000, it really was 1.098...it still fermenting. after 12 days


----------



## Boatboy24

Elmer said:


> It could be that Since I added 2 extra cups, maybe that added to the extra sugar content of the wine and I just have more sugar to burn!



What was your starting gravity? It could be the yeast has 'fermented itself to death' and you're done. Just less to backsweeten, if that's the case.


----------



## Elmer

jamesngalveston said:


> one of my batches is still fermenting in secondary...my hydrometer was way off..
> I moved to secondary when it hit 1.000, but it was not 1.000, it really was 1.098...it still fermenting. after 12 days



I am not going to go to secondary on my initial batch. I am following the directions to a T (or is it Tee?).
Anyway I wonder the difference in going to secondary, I have to imagine it slows Ferm down, but what does it do to the flavor.

Please let me know how it works out?


----------



## Elmer

Boatboy24 said:


> What was your starting gravity? It could be the yeast has 'fermented itself to death' and you're done. Just less to backsweeten, if that's the case.



I am nowhere near done.
My Starting SG was 1.090
And I still have a nice thick layer of foam and bubbles and the sounds of wine cooking hard!


----------



## detlion1643

Found ya through the sister (HBT) site!

The soon to be wife loves strawberry daqueries (as well as most of the female family members), myself, I find they are too sweet for my taste buds and give me headaches.

I currently have 10 gallons going (both pitched 4/22/2013), but they aren't de-gassed.

The wedding is in 2 months. I'm starting to fear that I won't have enough, or 1 won't be ready, or worst case, both!

So this thread was an awesome read. I'm currently making up 2 versions with non-fruit (juice/extract/etc).

Batch 1 (5g):
48oz 100% Lemon Juice
5 Cans 100% Strawberry Concentrate (I normally do about 10-12 cans for 5g by itself)
1 tsp Tannin
4 tsp Yeast Nutrient
2 tsp Yeast Energizer
5 Gallons Water (slightly more than 5g total, but accounting for racking once)
Sugar to about 1.085

Batch 2 (5g):
48oz 100% Lemon Juice
2 Gallons 100% Blueberry Juice
1 tsp Tannin
4 tsp Yeast Nutrient
2 tsp Yeast Energizer
3 Gallons Water (slightly more than 5g total, but accounting for racking once)
Sugar to about 1.085

How pronounced is the lemon flavor? I'm trying to make it not pronounced but still slightly there with 1/2 of the original recipe amount.


----------



## jamesngalveston

the secondary is so you can see the sediment before you bottle...when you add to secondary it really should be fermented completely...run it by dave.
I have a batch in a 5 gallon clear carboy, i can watch the sediment and the fermentation before it goes to bottling


----------



## Longtrain

In January I made a 1 gallon batch, bottled 5 750ml's and put them in the rack for a bit, gave a few to my kids, who raved about it as a wine cooler over ice with a shot of seltzer. Ok, glad you liked it i thought but I haven't tried it yet myself.

So, last night I opened one over ice with a bit of seltzer, it was friggin' great on a hot summer night. Many rave reviews, so, I just started a three gallon batch, worth the effort. 

Great recipe, thanks...

Tony


----------



## ShelleyDickison

Ok I was getting ready to add the yeast to my dragons blood and realized I don't have any EC-1118 yeast. I do however have 71B-1122. I know the 71B is used for fruit wines and was wondering if this can be substituted for the 1118. Any concerns with using it. Thanks.


----------



## scottvin

Just started on the DB train yesterday! 


3 gallon batch
11 cups sugar
32oz Realemon
Tannin
Yeast energizer
Yeast nutrient
3 bags trader joes berry medley

SG 1.085 before fruit
Pitched ec-1118 yeast this morning @ 75F

Will post pics tonight!


----------



## scottvin

Here is my log, should I be worried? I know it's only been a few days but any reason why the gravity really didn't go down today?

recipe according to dangerdave - cut in half for a 3G batch

6/23/13 mixed ingredients, SG 1.085
6/24/13 AM pitched EC-1118 yeast
6/25/13 PM temp 73.5 - SG 1.080
6/26/13 PM temp 77.2 - SG 1.078


----------



## dangerdave

What a great group of people making DB! I hope it's going well for everyone.

*detlion1643*: I use as much lemon juice as you are using. I found the reduced lemon juice (48 oz) was perfect for me and my wife. There will be a nice hint of the lemon after bottling, but the longer you let it sit, the more the berries take over. After several months---if you can keep some that long---the tartness has smoothed out and the fruit is up front and personal! It will be awesome!

*Shelley*: As a matter of fact, the next two batches I make will be a comparison of the EC-1118 vs 71B-1122. I have used both in the past, but do not have the final product to compare. As the 71B is supposed to be excellent for fruit wines, it should make a great DB!

*Scottvin*: Don't be concerned. Keep stirring and squeezing, and it will turn out just fine.

*Longtrain*: I have got to get me some seltzer! That sounds nice! Keep it coming!


----------



## detlion1643

I ended up with this:
- 32oz lemon juice
- 8lbs frozen strawberries (packages said no sugar added)
- water/sugar to 1.085
- 4 tsp Yeast Nutrient
- 2 tsp Yeast Energizer
- 1 pk montrachet yeast

Fermented to 0.992 in under a week, in which I racked to a 5 gallon better bottle. I, unfortunately, only got about 4 gallons out of it, so there is some headspace in my carboy. I campden'd and sorbate'd during this initial racking. When clear, do I need to campden and sorbate again, or should I just add my sugar right into the carboy?


----------



## wineforfun

Did you use Sparkloid already too?
When clear, just add sugar to sweeten to your liking. You don't need more campden and sorbate. It should be clear in a couple of weeks at most.


----------



## detlion1643

No sparkeloid. Only been in the carboy about 2 1/2 weeks so far. I do have a packet of isinglass as that's all the local store carries. I'm unsure about using it, the package says it for 6 gallons. Also, I think I'd rather use it on a newly racked batch rather than one already in the carboy for 3 weeks. It is clearer already than when it was racked, so it's looking good!


----------



## upsidedown

Ok so I started a batch of dragons blood per recipe ( I added a bit extra water half gallon) starting sg was 1082
the primary started with a nice cap on it and sg has steadily decreased on day 7 today it is now down to 1020 but there is little to no cap. Lots of bubbling and cracking temp is around 20 degrees c yesterday sg was 1030 
Should I be concerned:
A: that there is no cap
B: Temp is 20 degrees c 68 f but goes up to about 24 c 75 f during the day
C: That fermentation will not go dry

I have not added any extra yeast or nutrient or energizer I stir once a day and squeeze juice bag

Should I 
A: be concerned 
B turn the temp up ( I don't really want to as long as it will not get stuck)
C: Relax don worry bout it

Thanks for your help


----------



## jamesngalveston

i would add some sugar and nutrient and see if it starts up again.
that would be some very weak wine at 1.030
i ferment at 78 degrees all the time.


----------



## upsidedown

Sorry James for my confusing post. 
sg has dropped steadily from 1082 now down to 1020 (was at 1030 yesterday) what has me concerned is there is very little foam cap on it but the must is still rolling and bubbling. And fermentation has not stopped...... I was just wonder if the lack of cap is a sign of things to come (stuck before dry) or should I just keep checking, stir more then once a day? etc.... Thanks


----------



## dangerdave

C: _Relax_.

Your SG is still dropping daily, so fermentation is going along nicely. The drop in SG will slow as it nears completion. Your temp might make it a bit slower than others, but you are well within yeast tolerance range. Many yeast varieties produce very little foam (EC-1118 is one of these), so the lack of a cap is of no concern. Watch the SG daily. That will be your chief indicator that things are going as planned.

Good luck!


----------



## upsidedown

Thanks Dave that is what I suspected I am learning patience and cleanliness are two very important tools in this art


----------



## dangerdave

You are very welocme. I tell everyone that being both slightly OCD _and_ highly procrastinatory makes for great wine.


----------



## upsidedown

Ok so after 10 days sg is down to .993 was at .996 yesterday I racked into a secondary and I am thinking of letting it sit there for a while will help it or should I just commit yeastacide now. Will leaving sit off the gross lees for a few days topped up have any adverse effects or is it just pointless


----------



## jamesngalveston

what was your starting sg...are what do you think your abv will be...
curious.
i am not answering for dave at all, I try to get mine off the lees as soon as possible..if i see 1/2 inch of sediment, im racking. but im kinda nuts when it comes to sediment.
and dragon blood is after all, a fast track wine...meant to be consumed fresh and young...my opinion only


----------



## upsidedown

initial sg was 1.085 abv will be around 12 to 13 I would imagin this is where a carboy fridge would come in handy I am doing a small sample (1.5 litre in the fridge) cap on lose sediment is already starting in the bottom.


----------



## Elmer

So another day in the pool (after work) another bottle drank!

I am finding that putting 3.5 cups of sugar for 5 gallon has left it a little dry. As time has gone on the sugar has dropped out and the berry flavor is coming forward.
Of course with less sugar then needed it leaves it a bit tart. 
So I load it with Ice and drink fast.
If it warms up sitting out in 90 degree weather it gets tart.
I am glad my 2nd batch has 4.5 cups of sugar for 5 gallon.
Now I just have to make my way through 3/4 of a case so I can get the bottle to bottle the sweet stuff!


----------



## upsidedown

@Elmer. My first batch I added no sugar to (skeeter) this stuff and was like sucking raw lemons. So I added some sugar to a decanter (lemonade pitcher with a spigot) filled it with ice and skeeter and dreamed about having a pool.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Elmer, I would like to send you the goop from my 50 gallon batch, and have you do a video of the goop dance.
lol
I use 3/4 cup per gallon..thats my magic number for my taste.


----------



## detlion1643

So, here I am. Initial ferment went awesome (about a week). I racked to the carboy and left it alone. This picture is about 3 weeks after that (4 weeks total). I just got some isinglass (it's all the local store had). Is it worthwhile to use the isinglass now? It doesn't look like it's clearing any differently than when it was first racked after fermentation finished. However, I heard that if you can see a flashlight without it breaking apart, it's "clear". In my opinion, it's *not* clear, as compared to my other wines. Bottle (not likely)? Use isinglass? Keep waiting (w/out isinglass)?


----------



## jamesngalveston

if isinglass is the same as super kleer...you will be shocked at 12 hours...it will clear enough to read a letter.


----------



## detlion1643

I have never used, or even seen, any fining agents before this. Here's the package. I might just dump half in this batch and half in my blueberry batch and see what happens.


----------



## jamesngalveston

sorry i have never used whats in the pic...i always use super-kleer.


----------



## snowgirl812001

detlion1643 said:


> I have never used, or even seen, any fining agents before this. Here's the package. I might just dump half in this batch and half in my blueberry batch and see what happens.



I have used this & it worked well for me


----------



## wineforfun

Have you left that carboy like that for 3 weeks, with all that airspace?


----------



## detlion1643

*I already know the issues of headspace*

I have left it in that carboy, yes. However, I transfered just above 1.000 so that the gases will push the air out of the airlock until it's at .992. I don't have any 1 or 3 gallon carboys, so for the time being this is what I had to do. I do have plans to get the other sizes, but only when fun 'funds' are replenished!


----------



## dangerdave

It constantly amazes me how much everyone loves this recipe!

Is everyone's DB going well? Any issues to resolve?


----------



## jamesngalveston

where can i buy a 1000 gallon stainless tank...lol just kidding...


----------



## chrisjw

dangerdave,
I have v2 of your recipe in a file that I downloaded but I am never sure that I have the latest version or whether there is a newer version because there are just so many posts in this thread. I was wondering if you could edit your first post to indicate the current version and/or point to the latest version of the recipe in that posting. Just a suggestion.
Thanks for the recipe.
Chris


----------



## jamesngalveston

go to page 1 on this thread.....


----------



## dangerdave

chrisjw said:


> dangerdave,
> I have v2 of your recipe in a file that I downloaded but I am never sure that I have the latest version or whether there is a newer version because there are just so many posts in this thread. I was wondering if you could edit your first post to indicate the current version and/or point to the latest version of the recipe in that posting. Just a suggestion.
> Thanks for the recipe.
> Chris


 
I wish I could, Chris. It would make it easier for everyone to find the most current version of the recipe. At some point in the past, older posts were blocked from the edit function, so I can't change the OP to reflect the v2 file.

As the next best thing, I linked the post with the v2 file to the DB recipe in the Recipe section. That seems to be the best I could do.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.


----------



## upsidedown

*back sweetened*

Ok so a week after k-meta. P sorbate and kieselson and chitosan vacuum splash racked added 4 cups of sugar 2 water (heated till clear then left to cool). 
It is still looking clear as a bell how long before I bottle or know if fermentation has started up again

sg prior to rack .992
sg after back sweeten 1.005


----------



## beardy

upsidedown said:


> how long before I bottle or know if fermentation has started up again



I think the average is 3-5 days. Just to be sure no more fermenting starts from the back-sweetening


----------



## jamesngalveston

I make sure that mine is completely sure it is finished fermenting, before anything...I ferment to completion in my primary..then rack and degass.
then sorbate/campden, when it clears i add simple syrup made with fruit juice.then i use super kleer, next day are two..i bottle.


----------



## wineforfun

upsidedown said:


> Ok so a week after k-meta. P sorbate and kieselson and chitosan vacuum splash racked added 4 cups of sugar 2 water (heated till clear then left to cool).
> It is still looking clear as a bell how long before I bottle or know if fermentation has started up again
> 
> sg prior to rack .992
> sg after back sweeten 1.005



Typically, give it a week after clearing, backsweetening, etc. then bottle away as long as its clear.


----------



## dangerdave

upsidedown said:


> Ok so a week after k-meta. P sorbate and kieselson and chitosan vacuum splash racked added 4 cups of sugar 2 water (heated till clear then left to cool).
> It is still looking clear as a bell how long before I bottle or know if fermentation has started up again
> 
> sg prior to rack .992
> sg after back sweeten 1.005


 
Bottle it and start some more! It'll go fast...


----------



## upsidedown

dangerdave said:


> Bottle it and start some more! It'll go fast...



Bottled clear and tasting great .... yummy. Thanks Dave

final sg 1.005


----------



## upsidedown

Next up tomorrow Pinot Grigio


----------



## ShelleyDickison

I think it's cleared.


----------



## dangerdave

That's it, Shelley! The color is spot on!


----------



## huntva89

Where do I find the recipe for dragon blood? Looks like something I'd like to give a go.


----------



## wineforfun

huntva89 said:


> Where do I find the recipe for dragon blood? Looks like something I'd like to give a go.



Page 1 of this thread, about halfway down.

Also, Dave has a whole list of variations available in this thread. Don't remember exactly where, but the thread is well worth reading to find it.
Here you go, I found it. The .pdf has the recipes.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/wine-made-easy-36430/


----------



## petey

Some of my skeeter pee and variants, thank Lon, Dave. My latest, quad berry is the biggest hit yet


----------



## dangerdave

Great display, Petey! You are very welcome.


----------



## petey

dangerdave said:


> Great display, Petey! You are very welcome.



I've only been winemaking for 7 months now. I don't know how I could handle all the waiting for my wines to age if it weren't for DB.
Tomorrow I start a tropical blend. I'll post my results soon!


----------



## dangerdave

The tropical blend is one of my wife's favorates, as well. You'll like it, I'm sure.


----------



## petey

dangerdave said:


> The tropical blend is one of my wife's favorates, as well. You'll like it, I'm sure.



I'm going with 1 can of pineapple juice , for my citric acid,6 # of cut up frozen peaches, 1 pkg of tropical blend fruit, from trader joes. I'm thinking of back sweetening with a ca of pinia colada frozen concentrate, but that's a couple weeks away. Won't be pitching yeast till tomorrow


----------



## dangerdave

That sounds great, Petey! Keep us appraised of the outcome.


----------



## petey

dangerdave said:


> That sounds great, Petey! Keep us appraised of the outcome.



Yeast (1118) is working well! I'm starting with 7 gallon batch cause I'm expecting lots of gross lees with all those peaches. Smells good already!


----------



## sgx2

*Weighing in with my DB*

I've been lurking for a while now, but the pictures looked so good I decided to fire up a batch of Dragon Blood and it's a real winner!

I thought I'd share the specific recipe I followed and share the progress I tracked and whatever pictures I could find of the product.

Here's a cut-and-paste of the report for this batch from my database (sorry for the mixed units, I'm Canadian...) - it may be useful to keep in mind that I did the first two paragraphs of the recipe instructions I've noted below in my kitchen the night before I started the batch at my friend's winemaking location:

Batch: Dragon Blood I
Varietal: Lemon
Batch Size: 6 Gal/22.7 L Carboy (30 bottles)
Date Started: Jul 15, 2013 2:00 PM
Cost of ingredients: $28.00

3 32oz bottles of RealLemon brand lemon juice
3 kg triple-berry mix (dark berries: raspberry, blueberry, blackberry) [6.6 lbs - this was a large bag from the grocery store]
2 341mL cans cranberry juice concentrate [two standard sized cans from the grocery store freezer]
4 kg table sugar (white) [8.8 lbs]
8 decent sized bananas [for body]
1 sweet potato [for the amylase to combat any starch haze from the bananas]
Water to 23 L [to 6 Gallons]
1 pkg bentonite
3 tsps pectic enzyme
1 tsp yeast energizer
3 tsps yeast nutrient
1 tsp tannin
1 fruit bag
1 pkg Lalvin EC-1118 yeast

First, prepare invert sugar: boil 8 cups of water, reduce heat slightly, add 1/2 cup of the lemon juice, stir well, maintain heat just under boiling and dissolve all sugar within it. Maintain heat and stir for about 30 minutes. Transfer to large jug (1.25 Gal/160 oz will be fine). Be careful! This will remain piping hot for a lot longer than you think.

In the same pot boil some water, enough to cover the bananas and sweet potato. Chop the ends off the bananas, dice both the bananas and the sweet potato and add to the water. Simmer for ~30 minutes. Transfer the liquid only to another jug (or other suitable container), add the cranberry juice concentrate and the lemon juice.

Dissolve the yeast energizer, yeast nutrient and tannin in very hot tap water within a primary. Add the bentonite and ensure it's well distributed and not clumping. Pour in the banana/sweet potato/concentrate/lemon juice mix and half the invert sugar. Top up to about 22 L with very hot water and mix with degassing stirrer. Test SG, adding invert sugar in small stages, mixing very well and retesting until SG is at 1.075. Try to get the final liquid level to 23 L.

Place the berries into a fruit bag, sprinkling the pectic enzyme into the bag as you're filling it, then add it to the primary, crushing the fruit well. 

Cover with a lid and airlock or with a well-secured clean towel.

Uncover and stir with a drill-attachment type degasser daily to ensure must is well oxygenated, until must is at ~1.010. At this point rack to a secondary and top-up as needed.

Note:
May need to liquid amylase enzyme if starch haze does not clear.

Current ABV level: 10.5%

Initial Chemistry:
SG: 1.075 TA: n/a % pH: n/a SO2: n/a ppm







History


Code:


Date                  Event       Value   Details/Observations
Jul 15, 2013 2:00 PM  Start
Jul 16, 2013 3:24 PM  SG Reading  1.068   A little warm and some good foam, did not stir
Jul 17, 2013 11:46 AM SG Reading  1.050   Bubbling and warm - aerated must with drill-mounted degasser
Jul 19, 2013 11:49 AM SG Reading  1.004   Almost done - temp down - aerated again - very gassy - will rack later today
Jul 19, 2013 1:32 PM  Racked              Racked to secondary for anaerobic phase
Jul 19, 2013 1:33 PM  Note                Pretty hazy looking, may need some amylase to clear starch haze
Jul 20, 2013 3:46 PM  SG Reading  1.000   Added 5 tsp amylase enzyme dissolved in the hydrometer tube half full of wine
Jul 21, 2013 3:35 PM  Note                Still bubbling away
Jul 23, 2013 3:13 PM  SG Reading  0.996   Some bubbling - probably trapped gasses
Jul 23, 2013 3:14 PM  Stabilized          Added keiselsol/chitosan clarifiers too
Jul 24, 2013 3:58 PM  Note                It is not clear whether the amaylase had any effect, but the wine is darker and may be clearer
Jul 31, 2013 2:45 PM  Note                Left it alone for a week and was rewarded with very clear looking wine
Aug 02, 2013 9:22 PM  Tasting Note        Clear as a bell - definite lemon nose, acidic and hot

The 6 Gal DB is in the back (dried Elderberry 3 Gal to the left, 3 Gal Strawberry to the right and two 5 Gal Mango Pulp obscuring the DB ) - I'll have to get a better picture.





Label waiting to be applied:


----------



## jamesngalveston

nice post....love the dragon glass holder..that is cool.


----------



## ou8amaus

Love the label, my favorite so far! I am curious how your db will come out with 3 bottles of lemon juice... I have only ever used 1 per the most recent recipe and have been reluctant to add more due to acid/heartburn concerns voiced by a few others here.


----------



## sgx2

Thanks for those comments about the label 

I found a picture of a pewter dragon glass and then overlayed it over a picture I took of a glass of red wine and worked the image a bit. Gotta love the GIMP. 

My recipe made 6 gal with the 3 32 ounce bottles (not the 48 oz) 

It's definitely sharp, but it's very nice over ice and I imagine a little time in the bottle won't hurt this at all (if it makes it that long)...


----------



## dangerdave

Nice, sgx2! Keep some of that DB back for aging. I know it's hard...


----------



## TheRooster

I've been brewing beer for years but today is the first time I'm trying my hand at wine. I've read through this and a number of other threads and I'm psyched about my first batch of DB (started today, DDs recipe, except all blackberries onstead of the triple berry). Thank you everybody for making this process clear and simple to understand for this beer brewer! Extra thanks to DD for putting so much effort into making this recipe so easy and available (pdf file, this thread, et cetera).


----------



## sgx2

dangerdave said:


> Nice, sgx2! Keep some of that DB back for aging. I know it's hard...



 with all that acid it should have quite a shelf life, so I hope to have some left for next summer - wish me luck!


----------



## Billberry

I like those neat individual carboy carts sgx2. Did you make those yourself or did you buy them somewhere?


----------



## jamesngalveston

one thing i noticed about the pictures, you just had the fruit, no bag are strainer.
i just wonder if that would help in clearing, the larger peices maybe taking down the smaller with it.
next batch i will make without a strainer bag...


----------



## dangerdave

TheRooster said:


> I've been brewing beer for years but today is the first time I'm trying my hand at wine. I've read through this and a number of other threads and I'm psyched about my first batch of DB (started today, DDs recipe, except all blackberries onstead of the triple berry). Thank you everybody for making this process clear and simple to understand for this beer brewer! Extra thanks to DD for putting so much effort into making this recipe so easy and available (pdf file, this thread, et cetera).


 
Thanks, Rooster. That was my goal. Step-by-step, easy-to-follow, for the new wine maker to get their feet under them. Welcome to the wine world. DB is a favorate all over, so enjoy! It's fun to make _and_ drink!

Oh, and welcome back, jamesngalveston!


----------



## sgx2

jamesngalveston said:


> one thing i noticed about the pictures, you just had the fruit, no bag are strainer.
> i just wonder if that would help in clearing, the larger peices maybe taking down the smaller with it.
> next batch i will make without a strainer bag...



What kind of a primary are you using? If it's ported I really don't recommend that as the fruit pieces will plug the tap. If it's not ported I still recommend using a bag as you're using a racking cane the tiny fruit pieces can clog the cane.


----------



## suecasa

as far as using a bag … i used one on my first batch … didnt have one for my second so skipped it … mistake IMHO! i lost a lot in volume with the extra sediment and i felt like it actually look much longer to clear … just my 2cents since I am by no means the expert most everyone else is around here!


----------



## petey

petey said:


> I've only been winemaking for 7 months now. I don't know how I could handle all the waiting for my wines to age if it weren't for DB.
> Tomorrow I start a tropical blend. I'll post my results soon!



Just back sweetened my tropical blend . Started on aug 2. Taking a little longer to clear, probably all the peaches. Taste pretty good on the dry side,ill let it sit for a week or two before I bottle


----------



## dangerdave

Peaches are a pain, Petey. Glad it turned out well!  I just stabilized my new batch of tropical yesterday. This one used 4 cans of pineapple-orange juice frozen concentrate in the primary. I smells _really_ good. I have high expectations for this one!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I believe there is no end to the combinations when can have with dragon blood.
my strawberry/cantaloupe is gorgeous and taste excellent.
my next batch will be a kiwi something are other. its just cleaning all those little buggers.


----------



## detlion1643

I just bottled my batch of strawberry, and disappointing actually.

Notes:
Strawberry Wine (6/23/2013)
32oz 100% Lemon Juice
Water/Sugar to 1.085
8lbs Frozen Strawberries
2 ½ tsp Yeast Nutrient
5 tsp Yeast Energizer
1 Packet Montrachet Yeast

Pitched 6/23
6/26 – Gravity 1.015
6/29 – Gravity 0.992
6/30 – Gravity 0.992

6/30 – Rack To 5g Carboy (total amount was about 4g)
7/17 (Morning) – Added 3 Campden tabs + kmeta
7/17 (Evening) – Added 2 ½ cups sugar
8/26 - Bottled

The wife said it tasted like unsweet tart strawberries. I could taste it as not dry, but not really sweet, but it did seem tart to me as well.

*When racking from primary bucket to carboy it smelled so good. When popping the airlock to add campden/kmeta/sugar, it smelled even better. When bottling, it doesn't smell at all .

Went ahead and did a hydrometer reading on my sample, turns out it was 1.005.

Any ideas for the tart flavoring? Will it mellow out and some? I know some sweetness will still come around in the bottle.


----------



## sgx2

detlion1643 said:


> I just bottled my batch of strawberry, and disappointing actually.
> ........
> The wife said it tasted like unsweet tart strawberries. I could taste it as not dry, but not really sweet, but it did seem tart to me as well.
> 
> *When racking from primary bucket to carboy it smelled so good. When popping the airlock to add campden/kmeta/sugar, it smelled even better. When bottling, it doesn't smell at all .
> 
> Went ahead and did a hydrometer reading on my sample, turns out it was 1.005.
> 
> Any ideas for the tart flavoring? Will it mellow out and some? I know some sweetness will still come around in the bottle.



I wonder: was this feedback from a newly-bottled sample, or from the carboy before bottling?

If it's the former you might be seeing the effects of "bottle shock", so give it a little time and try again...


----------



## detlion1643

> I wonder: was this feedback from a newly-bottled sample, or from the carboy before bottling?


From the bottling bucket while bottling. I'm going to open my first one in a week and see how it is.


----------



## wineforfun

I think you need more sugar. It is still on the light side for a sweeter wine. Try to get it up to 1.010 - 1.014. 
Also, yes, it will mellow out over the next few months, as far as the lemon/acid flavor.


----------



## dangerdave

I agree with DJ, detlion. I have made the strawberry version before---called it Strawberry Sweet Tart. My wife loved it, and wants more. More sugar brings out the berry flavor much better. Ripe strawberries are sweet. If you want it to taste like a strawberry, time should be sweeter. I shoot for 1.010. That's about 4 1/2 cups of sugar for a six gallon batch.


----------



## beardy

My 5 gallon DB is clearing oh so nicely. Transferred from primary yesterday. Just the standard recipe until I can get more 5 or 6 gallon carboys.



(Also a 1 gallon apple and 3 gallon apricot)


----------



## detlion1643

Thanks all for the info on the strawberry version. Next time I'll try it at 1.010 or 1.015. Already been noted so I can keep track of things.

I also have a blueberry version of it. By my own experience I can't stand the flavor of this dry. I think I'll try taking this up to 1.025.

By my calculations, 2 1/2 cups of sugar raised 4 gallons by .005. So, I'll be adding a total of *12 1/2 cups* of sugar to the blueberry. Man that seems like a lot, but it's sounding so good right about now.


----------



## wineforfun

I would bump your blueberry up to the same SG, 1.010 - 1.014. Try it. Then if you think it needs more, add it. 1.025 may be too sweet for you. Remember, you can always add more sugar, but you can't take it out.


----------



## dangerdave

detlion1643 said:


> Thanks all for the info on the strawberry version. Next time I'll try it at 1.010 or 1.015. Already been noted so I can keep track of things.
> 
> I also have a blueberry version of it. By my own experience I can't stand the flavor of this dry. I think I'll try taking this up to 1.025.
> 
> By my calculations, 2 1/2 cups of sugar raised 4 gallons by .005. So, I'll be adding a total of *12 1/2 cups* of sugar to the blueberry. Man that seems like a lot, but it's sounding so good right about now.


 
Oh, that's a lot of sugar, detlion! I'd start with less...a lot less. The sweetness will come forward over time, and you can't take it out after you have put it in, but you can alway add more. Start with, say, five or six cups. That's the high end of sweet for me. Then add more later if it's not enough. You don't want a jug full of syrup that you can't hardly drink!


----------



## detlion1643

DJ and Danger, thanks guys!

I think I'll settle on 1.010 - 1.015. I'll probably start with 6 cups and see how that is.


----------



## chrisjw

detlion1643 said:


> 7/17 (Morning) – Added 3 Campden tabs + kmeta



Detlion,

I hope you meant "3 Campden Tablets + sorbate."

Chris


----------



## detlion1643

> I hope you meant "3 Campden Tablets + sorbate."


Yes, I did mean that, good catch. I always get them confused when writing about them, but know what I'm doing when looking at them.


----------



## beardy

I think I may have this thread beat by about 3 days. Im going on 11 days and its about as clear as glass. Tomorrow I may rack and backsweeten.


----------



## jamesngalveston

strawberry/cantaloupe....started 8.16.13, fermented 4 days till dry.
racked twice a day...on day 9 added super kleer,bottled on day 11.
pineapple started 8.25. fermented 4 days..i have racked twice.
this batch will be bottle in start to finnish in 12 days.
both of these batches i double the yeast nutrient/engergizer and pitched yeast twice once to start, then 1 day later i pitched again.
very fast ferment for both batches. racked when i saw 1/2 inch of sediment, sometimes twice a day...when it was less the 1/2 inch
i added super kleer.


----------



## beardy

jamesngalveston said:


> strawberry/cantaloupe....started 8.16.13, fermented 4 days till dry.
> racked twice a day...on day 9 added super kleer,bottled on day 11.
> pineapple started 8.25. fermented 4 days..i have racked twice.
> this batch will be bottle in start to finnish in 12 days.
> both of these batches i double the yeast nutrient/engergizer and pitched yeast twice once to start, then 1 day later i pitched again.
> very fast ferment for both batches. racked when i saw 1/2 inch of sediment, sometimes twice a day...when it was less the 1/2 inch
> i added super kleer.



Dang. That's a fast track. I decided to let it sit for a while just to be sure. Dont wanna rush it and cause an issue in the bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

James is the Master Rapid Wine Maker! Amazing! Hard to believe you can make a good wine that quickly. Good info, James!


----------



## jamesngalveston

i am starting some black & red today...8 lbs of black berries and 8 lbs of strawberries...going to do the exact same thing and see if this batch is number 3 for under 12 days...


----------



## Juggernaut

Is there a difference in taste when you make a batch that rapidly? I think I've read that the wine will have a different flavor when the yeast fermented under stress.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i dont think i stressed the little yeasties too much.
to me it taste the same as a wine that took 10 days to ferment.


----------



## Ar1527

Hello everybody, I'm a new wine maker and have been lurking here for a couple months. After making two 1 gallon batches of apple wine, I decided to step it up and make a 5 gallon batch of Dragon Blood. I followed the recipe pretty close (after converting to five gallon) but used 2 pound each of raspberries and blueberries and one pound each of strawberries and blackberries. I had a rotten egg smell but have gotten rid of it thanks to you guys! My question is about the berry taste, it isn't noticeable at all right now, all I taste is the alcohol and the lemon at this point. Should I think about adding some juice or concentrate when I backsweeten or will the berry taste come out with the sugar?


----------



## dangerdave

The sugar will bring out the berry flavor. After all, berries have an element of sweet, do they not? It sounds like you used plenty of fruit in the making. More fruit flavor is good, so if you don't get what you want after adding sugar, you can cook down some fruit and make an extract to boost the flavor. It's all good!


----------



## Ar1527

Alright thank you Dave I guess I was worrying about nothing. Thank for this recipe also!


----------



## wineforfun

Ar1527,
The taste will change will quite a bit after it has been in the bottle for 2-3 months. Much more berry flavor and not as much lemon.


----------



## Ar1527

Thanks for the help! I've started noticing a slight finger nail polish remover smell and taste now. Is it possible that this came from splash racking to get rid of the H2S (I think this is the right abbreviation) or is a slight smell and taste common from the lemon juice?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i doubt is from the h2s, maybe its a combination of bung smell and alcohol.
i have never had a batch smell are taste like you describe. so i dun no...


----------



## Ar1527

Alright I think this batch is doomed for the drain. The nail polish remover smell and taste is just too much. I didn't have any yeast energizer so I just used a little extra nutrient. I think I have narrowed this down to be the problem. Thanks for the help! I'd also like to add that I'm part of two more forums and this is by far the most helpful and friendly. Thanks again!


----------



## jamesngalveston

very strange that a dragon blood did not come out..Its almost a perfect recipe for a early drinker.
i triple the amount of fruit for my dragon blood....i think that 6 lbs is just to light for my taste.
hope you try it again, because it is just excellent cold.


----------



## Ar1527

I'm planning on trying again. I just have to "sample" a little bit more before I throw this out. I hate wasting it but it is pretty much undrinkable.


----------



## jamesngalveston

maybe this will save it..
take 4 lbs of strawberries, take the stem off.
chop and add to pot with 2 lbs sugar, and one cup of water. cook on low for about an hour, and keep skimming off the white lather that builds on top.
after cooking for an hour, let it cool, strain it and add to wine.
let the wine clear, and it should be very drinkable.


----------



## Ar1527

Thank you for the suggestion but I've been adding a berry f-pack to some samples I've pulled from my batch and there's no saving it.


----------



## jamesngalveston

you may be the first to have this happen...
next time you, if there is a next time...ask for help early on...everyone here will do there best to give you good info....


----------



## Ar1527

I am planning on starting again in the next couple weeks, the only yeast I have on hand are Cote de blancs, Pasteur Champagne, a Montrachet. I'm leary of use the Montrachet because I've read that it causes an h2s problem and since I've already had this once I think it would be best to use something else. I'm thinking the Cote de blancs would be better since it is supposed to bring out fruit favors but if I need to order another type I will.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I use pasteur red in most of mine...Sometimes premier curvee..
the premier curvee is a fast yeast, and can make the temp go up in the carboy quite a bit.
both are a high abv yeast


----------



## sgx2

I use Lalvin EC-1118 for almost everything I do now. I find its Sulphite tolerance, the wide temperature range it can work (very) well in, and the high alcohol tolerance are an unbeatable combination and allows me to worry _less_ about starting conditions...

I'd be interested to hear any cons against EC-1118 that folks here may know about!


----------



## jamesngalveston

My next order I am going to buy a couple of the Lalvin yeast, I havent tried any yet...the ec-1118 and 71b is what i want to try.


----------



## ou8amaus

sgx2 said:


> I use Lalvin EC-1118 for almost everything I do now. I find its Sulphite tolerance, the wide temperature range it can work (very) well in, and the high alcohol tolerance are an unbeatable combination and allows me to worry less about starting conditions...
> 
> I'd be interested to hear any cons against EC-1118 that folks here may know about!



I too trust nothing but the ec-1118 at this point, but I have heard it can strip some of the fruit flavours...


----------



## sgx2

ou8amaus said:


> I too trust nothing but the ec-1118 at this point, but I have heard it can strip some of the fruit flavours...


I've _heard_ the same thing, off and on, but there's been nothing either way from anyone I trust.
Jack Keller, of whom I assume everyone here has heard of, says this about EC-1118:


> Lalvin EC-1118 (Prise de Mousse) : This is the original, steady, low foamer, excellent for barrel fermentation or for working on heavy suspended pulps. It is one of the most popular wine yeasts in the world. It ferments well at low temperatures, flocculates well, and produces very compact lees. It is good for Champagne bases, secondary (bottle) fermentations, restarting stuck fermentations, and for late harvest grapes. It is also the yeast of choice for apple, crabapple, cranberry, hawthorn, and cherry wines. It has excellent organoleptic properties and should be in every vinter's refrigerator. Alcohol toxicity is 18% and it ferments relatively fast. It tolerates temperatures from 39-95° F. It is not, however, tolerant of concurrent malolactic fermentation.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I think picking a yeast is like picking a Ketchup, there is so many brands so many different kinds....i started with red star, that is all i have used.
I am however going to try the Lalvin just to see if there is a difference, I really do n0t think i will see much change...


----------



## sgx2

Can't argue with that!  Just please, do yourself a favour, and don't use Fleishmann's bread yeast .... . .. .


----------



## jamesngalveston

lol, i do not think i will make that mistake.. i do not bake bread anymore, since i found the frozen dough...easy to take out of freezer, let rise, and bake......


----------



## Ar1527

Good news! I decided to try my DB one last time today and the bad smell/taste is completely gone! I don't know what happened but it actually taste like wine again! Now I just have to find a way to bring back some of the berry flavor, I started a gelatin f-pack that I saw and another post and will be hoping that it turns out good.


----------



## dangerdave

Good to hear, Ar1527! I have had several wine that didn't seem "right" until I let them sit for a while. Aging does wonders, even for the DB. Experimentation is fun, but there are always risks involved. That's another reason the DB is so useful. The ingredients are relatively cheap, so if you fudge a batch, it's no big loss.

Different yeasts do make for different wines. The EC-1118 is a staple in my Lab; perfect for the DB. However, I'm about ready to start a new yeast comparison btw the Lavin EC-1118 and the Red Star Premier Cuvee, using the standard DB recipe.


----------



## Elmer

jamesngalveston said:


> I think picking a yeast is like picking a Ketchup, there is so many brands so many different kinds....i started with red star, that is all i have used.
> I am however going to try the Lalvin just to see if there is a difference, I really do n0t think i will see much change...



What do you mean there are other brands?
I could have sworn there is heinz and only heinz. This is all I have ever seen in my house!

Same thing with Mayo, everytime I asked my old man what other kinds of mayo there are he would just say "Hellmans, there is nothing else!"

Anyhow someone mentioned that Lalvin 1118 is a "low foamer".
I have always had the opposite, it foams like crazy, so much so that when I dont get good foam I am convinced something is wrong!


----------



## dangerdave

My EC-1118 will foam at the start, but calm down to a nice fizz.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I just got some ec 1118 and going to try.. i dont have two buckets empty..so i cant really compare, but i have done enough fermenting with the red curvee to notice the difference, if any.
will let you know.
the appear to be the exact same in theory.


----------



## rucusworks

Question, I was planning to make my dragon blood tonight but I don't have anymore yeast energizer. I have the yeast nutrient though. Think it will be ok? Or should I hold off until I pick up energizer?


----------



## jamesngalveston

If you have yeast nutrient bump it a little..and add in thirds, you should be ok. If you cant get any , add a whole banana peels and all , sliced and put in bag...you should be just fine.


----------



## rucusworks

jamesngalveston said:


> If you have yeast nutrient bump it a little..and add in thirds, you should be ok. If you cant get any , add a whole banana peels and all , sliced and put in bag...you should be just fine.



Thanks so much for the quick response. It just so happens I have banana. I'll do just that. What did you mean by adding nutrient in thirds? I'm excited to get making this one!


----------



## jamesngalveston

instead of adding all your nutrient at once, split in to thirds.
1/3 at start, 2/3 like 3 days, 3/3 in 5 days...


----------



## dangerdave

I believe what James is suggesting is to divide the neutrient into thirds abd add it in incriments over the life of the ferment. If you are adding a little extra overall, start with, say, two tsp up front. Once the SG drops by a third, add two more, then again at one third SG. Like this...

At start SG = 1.075 (add 2 tsp)
After several days SG = 1.050 (add 2 tsp)
After several more days SG = 1.025 (add two more)

This is just an example, but you get the idea. Do this along with the banana being added up front. You can put the banana in the bag with the other fruit if you like. Follow the recipe exactly otherwise. Squeeze and stir daily.

Did you get the pdf file with the recipe in it? <attached below> 

View attachment Wine_Made_Easy 2.0.pdf


----------



## jamesngalveston

dave is dead on target...now if he could just pick a label for 2013, he will have wrapped it up.lol


----------



## rucusworks

Thanks guys! Dave, I did get the pdf. I really appreciate it. I'll post the results of this batch in a few weeks as it progresses.


----------



## Laughinghag

Well, wish me luck, I am trying the Dragon's blood. just started it tonight. I will be bottling a pretty blue Margareeta Skeeter tomorrow that is really good so far.


----------



## dangerdave

Isn't that lovely! And where did you get the cool hugging monkey bottle?


----------



## Laughinghag

I get most of my bottles from my Parents. That one I fill for them and share, so I get it back again. That way I keep my "brass monkey".


----------



## wineforfun

How did you get the blue color? That is awesome looking.


----------



## Laughinghag

I fortified it with tequila and blue curaco which gave the lovely color.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have two db variants i am working on.
one is like a purple jesus....grape juice and vodka
the other is like a margarita.
i am testing a lime ferment now, but so far no real luck with pure lime juice.
almost, but not there yet.
one other is a pina colada type blood, 
i want it to taste like the drinks, not like wine, but it will be...


----------



## dangerdave

Zesting was the way to go for my lemon-lime version---Leaping Lizard. Taste just like a margarita! I've got just a few bottles left. Need to make some this winter for next summer enjoyment.


----------



## suecasa

Hmm. Just finishing a batch of the original. I used sine extra strawberries along with triple berry. Used premier cuvée since that's what I had. Otherwise as directed. Just back sweetened to 1.016 and there is a distinct tin or bitter flavor. Any ideas? Still young. It's only been clear for a couple days. Wait? Add anything? Help!!(please)


----------



## jamesngalveston

you can an juice extraction from strawberries, that would help.
best is bottle and let sit, i can tell a diffrence after 1 month...


----------



## suecasa

jamesngalveston said:


> you can an juice extraction from strawberries, that would help.
> best is bottle and let sit, i can tell a diffrence after 1 month...



thanks .. any idea what would lend the tin flavor? any chance it is something dangerous?


----------



## dangerdave

The Wine Spectator magazine says, regarding metalic taste in wines:


"First off, there's a difference between "good metallic" and "bad metallic." Some excellent Sauvignon Blancs and Rieslings might be described as "steely" or "flinty" (positive descriptors that are often attributed to grapes grown in mineral-rich soil). On the other hand, unpleasant metallic or "tinny" notes can come from brettanomyces, a spoilage yeast. "Metallic" can also refer to a tactile sensation that comes from low-ethanol, dry, high-acid wines, or to the astringent feel of some highly polyphenolic wines. Also, there are combinations of both medication and food that can impart a metallic taste to wine. I've experienced this anytime I've been on antibiotics—or tried to pair red wine with sushi."

Brettanomyce is a wild yeast found on the skin of fruit. "It is thought _Brettanomyces_ can be introduced to a winery by insect vectors such as fruit flies."
It may come from any of, or a combination of these factors. It will go away, they say, if you let the wine "breath" for a while before drinking, or it may dissipate with some time in the bottle.


----------



## 11C_Recon

dangerdave said:


> Isn't that lovely! And where did you get the cool hugging monkey bottle?



http://www.ourniche.com/wine/Affentaler-Pinot-Noir/

Funny, I have a batch of DB in a couple of these bottles as well. They make a Riesling too. I used to be able to get them from a Military Post Exchange.


----------



## jamesngalveston

good link, thanks.....now if you ever see one with a hummingbird are a goose, let me know.


----------



## wineforfun

Will post back more in a month or two on my DB Choco-Lime. I took the regular DB recipe(using extra fruit) and used lime juice instead of lemon juice. Once done fermenting, clearing and backsweetened, I added 3 oz. 85% dark chocolate pieces to a 1 gal. carboy of it. It has been in there for four weeks now and I will be bottling it this weekend. I took a sip the other night and I think it has high hopes. Berry flavor with a hint of chocolate. Didn't take a very big sip so am curious how it will be in a glass.
Thanks to Julie and Dan for the help on the chocolate addition.


----------



## Jericurl

*Dragon Piss*

Or....er...something along those lines. 

I cook, bake, and make soap. I have discovered that it is almost fundamentally impossible for me to follow a recipe without changing, tweaking, adding, subbing, leaving out, or replacing something.
I really had every intention of making dragon blood as is, absolutely no changes.
But.....then my right brain stepped in and took over. Here is what I ended up with:

1 bottle (48 oz) 100% Lemon Juice
1 11.5 fl oz can of frozen grape juice concentrate
water to about 5 gallons (then more added to bring to 6 gallons after adding everything)
20 cups sugar
1 tsp tannin
4 tsp yeast nutrient
4 tsp pectic enzyme
3 lbs mixed berries frozen fruit
4 lbs prickly pear fruit
10 lime leaves, torn in half
6 campden tablets
1 tsp vanilla extract
1 tsp almond extract

SG punched out at 1.090.

I managed to stop myself when I went outside to harvest some peppers and tomatoes from the garden. I was eyeing the mint, lemon thyme, lavender, rosemary, and basil and thinking..yeah...I could add that.
Luckily the voice of reason finally stepped in and said stop!
So...this may or may not turn out.
If this doesn't turn out, I know I can duplicate this mix for future "virgin party drinks," since this tastes awesome.

Oh, eta:
Just as a bonus brag, I just unmolded a few soaps. The 2nd pic were my favorites. The scent is a blend I made from vanilla, oak, lemongrass, and ginger. I am seriously considering figuring out a wine that contains these elements. It smells absolutely divine


----------



## jamesngalveston

I think you are very light on the fruit part, i would imagine that 1 teaspoon of the extracts will do nothing with 6 gallons of water.
the prickly pear and mixed berries sounds pretty good....i would add another bag of mixed berries before it starts a really good ferment.
just saying.....


----------



## Jericurl

I've got 24 hours to sit out, waiting on the campden. I can definitely add more fruit during that time frame. I won't be adding yeast till tomorrow afternoon.
I didn't want to overdue the extracts....maybe I will add a little more tonight and let it all marinate. I want it to just have a hint of the vanilla and almond, not anything that will overpower. I can taste it in the bucket now (but then again, cilantro tastes like dirty dishwater to me) so I was going a little easy.


----------



## Jericurl

James, how much more fruit would you add?


----------



## dangerdave

I only use the normal six pounds of fruit for my award winning Dragon Blood.  It turns out great every time! Some other folks use more fruit, I know, but I usually stick to the original recipe. I have to admit, I have no idea what prickly pears taste like, so I don't know how much flavor they will lend to your wine. I think if you added another 3lbs of berries, you wouldn't taste the prickly pear, or the extracts you added. The vanilla and almond extracts sound like a great idea by the way!

I did notice that you added your fruit directly to the fermenter (not in a bag). I have always believed that squeezing the fruit daily has a big effect on the outcome of the DB recipe. If it turns out light on fruit flavor, that may have something to do with it. I am very interested in your potential results with this one. Please keep us posted.

"Dragon Piss" Funny!


----------



## hawk022499

We'll, I'm into my 12th day on my 1st try at DB (my second attempt ever at wine making.) I came home from the firehouse this morning and my DB looks pretty darn clear. I posted a few pics in the "recipe" section. 

One thing I did notice. My 6gal carboys have the ribs in them. My DB looked really clear, but a bit darker than others as noted on other thread. But, when I grasped the carboy on each side and gave it a quick back and forth about a 1/4" each way a few times (not enough to disturb lees at bottom but enough to create a sort of vibration) fine lees started falling straight down the sides from the horizontal ribs that you really couldn't see just sitting there. None of the bottom sediment moved. This stuff fell pretty quickly so I should be able to do this a few more times today and rack tomorrow.

Left in place this unseen sediment may create cloudiness when racking for back sweetening. So I would suggest maybe the same to others who don't use/have filtration. Might save time in the long run getting it all out in one step instead of waiting several days after racking for clearing of the hidden/unseen fine sediment now suspended in the wine again.

Just a thought from a new guy.

Thanks for all your posts, tips, and suggestions to help us new to this...


----------



## jamesngalveston

as Dave stated, I did notice that you added your fruit directly to the fermenter (not in a bag). I have always believed that squeezing the fruit daily has a big effect on the outcome of the DB recipe. 
Since you will not be able to squeeze the fruit, are get all the flavor out,
I would add more of each fruit, maybe a bag of berry and about 4 lbs more
of the tunas.


----------



## Jericurl

I added another two lbs of strawberries. I also poured the whole mess into another ferment bucket with a paint strainer in it.
Lifted it out and squeezed it until my hand cramped up. Then I tied the top of the bag into a knot and tossed it back into the bucket. S.G. already worked it's way down to 1.030. Yeast is absolutely going mad. I think the pouring managed to add in some oxygen and made it super, super happy.
Juice is really dark, thick looking, and is still delicious. I added a little more lemon juice.
I'm pretty excited about this one. I think it's going to be a winner.


----------



## jamesngalveston

good for you....learning is all ways awkward...u will get there.


----------



## Jericurl

Down to 1.010.

I just realized that I don't have any Potassium Sorbate. If I move this to my secondary today, let it go completely dry, and don't backsweeten until it's not dropping anymore lees at all, will not adding any potassium sorbate matter?


----------



## dangerdave

Now you're looking good, Jericurl!

As to the sorbate, my sources say:

"Potassium sorbate, a widely used food preservative, is added in small quantities to sweet or semi-sweet wines to prevent further sugar fermentation. _It is the only practical way for the home winemaker to guarantee that fermentation will not restart in the bottle_.

For many years winemakers successfully produced sweet wines without it, and some still do. No one says you can't make sweet wine without sorbate, they only say it is riskier. To reduce this risk you can:

Use a yeast with low alcohol tolerance.
Make sure there is no yeast activity in any sweet reserve you add.
Rack the wine very carefully and filter with as fine a filter as you can.
Store the wine in very cool conditions.
Pray—and drink the rest of the wine up fast if you begin to notice a spritz."
If you don't use any sorbate, it's a coin toss as to whether fermentation will restart in the bottle. It's up to you. Feeling risque? Bottle and pray! More safely conscious? Order some sorbate. It's not very expensive.


----------



## LoneStarLori

I thought I read on one of these posts that there is a newer version of the DB than the one posted on the first page. I skipped to most of the pages and can't find one. Am I delusional and just imagined it?

I think I want to try a batch but not sure what it really is. Can someone explain what it tastes like? Is it real sweet or anything like a wine cooler?
Thanks, Lori


----------



## jamesngalveston

I dont know what your starting sg was, but if it was enough for you to have at least 12 percent abv, and its ferment completely dry, and you have racked enough to where there is 0 lees...you dont have to add sorbate.
I rarely use it any more.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hey all I'm racking mine to the secondary tonight! Getting excited! I posted my first stab at a DB label for it on the labels thread, would love to hear what you think!


----------



## dangerdave

LoneStarLori said:


> I thought I read on one of these posts that there is a newer version of the DB than the one posted on the first page. I skipped to most of the pages and can't find one. Am I delusional and just imagined it?
> 
> I think I want to try a batch but not sure what it really is. Can someone explain what it tastes like? Is it real sweet or anything like a wine cooler?
> Thanks, Lori


 
The newest version of the pdf file containing the DB recipe is attached below, Lori.

As for what it is: I began my wine making in July 2011. First, I made a kit to get my feet wet. Then, I jumped out on my own. That August, the first two batches of wine I made were based on Lon DePope's Skeeter Pee Recipe. One was original lemon, but with the other, I took a chance. I dumped six pounds of some wonderful berries---that I found in the freezer section at Walmart---into the must. I fermented to dry. Cleared with Sparkolloid, then sweetened to taste.

This is a picture of that first batch after it cleared...






Over time---tweaking the recipe a little---I reduced the lemon juice to 48oz, skipped the second doses of energizer and nutrient that Lon called for in his Skeeter Pee, and placed the fruit into a bag so that it could be squeezed daily for better extraction (I call that the _Presser Method_).

If you make it like I do (in the recipe), it will taste like a berry sweet tart. Following bottling, the tartness receeds over time, while the berry favor comes forward. I designed this recipe to make cheap delicious wine to drink while my "good stuff" ages. Since sharing my recipe with others on this site, folks have made numerous amazing variations.

I hope you get a chance to try it, Lori. Good luck. Questions are welcomed. Keep us posted on your progress. We never tire of DB stories.

Don't forget the pics!  

View attachment Wine_Made_Easy 2.0.pdf


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## Jericurl

Ok. I'll rack into my secondary as normal. At some point I'll order some sorbate (next time I put in an order...which, lets be honest, won't be long), and then treat my wine the next time I rack. I'll backsweeten at that time.

I don't like adding a bunch of stuff if it isn't necessary, but I'm guessing if I like my wine on the sweeter side, I'd better get used to the sorbate.

eta:
James, my starting was 1.090


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## Jericurl

Prickly pear wine on the left, Dragon's...whatever on the right.


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## jamesngalveston

I have made a lot of variants of db...the original is by far the best for a summer wine..hands down.
Mine usually looks like daves, I get more comments on the color then the wine...they just drink it till its gone...
all hail to dave....


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## dangerdave

I'm just glad you guys/gals like it. That makes all the difference.


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## ckvchestnut

Looks awesome Jeri! What does the prickly pear wine taste like? I've never tasted prickly pears either! Well thanks to creative people like Dangerdave and this Mr. Lon creator of skeeter pee I wouldn't have been lucky enough to find the recipes! This is right after my first racking. I sure hope I degassed it enough. I used my stirring spoon and then a degassing rod before adding sparkalloid. I sure hope this will clear nicely. I'm not in that much of a rush to bottle though. If it needs time it needs time! 


Call me a lush but I think it tastes great after degassing and straight out of the carboy lol! I did a small bench test initially in 1 cup with 1tbsp of conditioner/sweetener. Way too sweet didn't test it! Diluted it to 1tbsp to 2 cups ok but still a tad... I mean a tad too sweet at 1.003. Diluted further to 1tbsp ton3 cups. Came out with an agreeable sweetness and an SG reading of 1.000. Will this flavor profile or balance change after a week in the carboy and my 2nd racking? I know the "hotness" will subside but to be honest, after backsweetening this test batch it's pretty decent! Not too acid nor sour or what! Obviously I'll do another mini batch test after 2nd racking starting with the same SG level. Maybe because I did less lemon juice - 40oz in 7-gal, it could taste relatively flat or thin after aging? The body is there now that's for sure!

What is everyone's take on bottled conditioner/sweetener? I didn't even know it existed but I got 2 large unopened bottles free with my last purchase on Kijiji of winemaking supplies. How does backsweeteningn with it differ from regular simple syrup ratio wise? This one I have is potassium Sorbate/sugar syrup as the only ingredients. How long does this last in the opened bottle? I don't know how long the guy we got it from had it. Doesn't go bad? Well I made an extra gallon or 1.5 gallons of DB forgetting that I wouldn't have much loss in racking... Not sure what to do with it? Apart from drink it  Darn don't have a 1 gallon jug - just the 3 gal! Will have to find one or always just make a tad more than 6 gals or make a full 9 gals!


----------



## LoneStarLori

Thanks so much for posting the recipe, Danger. I _think_ going to start with your tried and true version of DB. But I may be tempted to add more blueberries. 
I'm also thinking of something for a holiday version. Probably cranberry/orange/spice. What's the average wait time for best flavor?


----------



## Jericurl

> What does the prickly pear wine taste like?



A mouthful of gasoline with a wee hint of cat piss.

It finished out at just under 15%. I'm not near the level of you guys yet because ALL I can taste is the alcohol. Someone with a more developed palate might be able to pick out the flavor but heck if I know.
I'll be sealing it up in the carboy around Dec and letting it mellow out a little.


Interesting reading on the wine conditioner. I didn't know such a thing even existed. I was planning on ordering some sorbate anyway, but finding an additive in a stabilizing/backsweeting one step solution is worth reading up on.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Lori! That combination sounds wonderful! Let us know if you do it! 

Cat piss and gasoline! Jeri! Nasty lol but I know what you mean... That's what my dandelion wine tasted like but add to that mix some vinegarish sour maybe acid taste?? It was way too young and I sadly dumped it. Don't know my palate seemed to fit me well when I'm tasting well made commercial wines - then when I taste my own u think - don't know what I'm looking for or what to expect and how to fix! But haven't had many experiments or scenarios which forced me to need to tinkle with things too much. Yours however should turn out great given time! Lol

Also would love to know more about wine conditioner. Sweetener and stabilizer in one. I've never been a big additive type but if its a "must" then I 'do' I have had organic wines and while i don't taste a difference I know it's better for me but... Much shorter shelf life obviously.


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## jamesngalveston

jericurl, after your wine clears, etc draw off a two are three bottles , date them and tag with 15percent abv...
fill the remaining space with water and a simple syrup made from strawberries., that would make it more drinkable, but after a month are two, go back and sample the one that u labeled...you will be surprised at how much smoother it is..


----------



## dangerdave

ckvchestnut said:


> Also would love to know more about wine conditioner. Sweetener and stabilizer in one. I've never been a big additive type but if its a "must" then I 'do' I have had organic wines and while i don't taste a difference I know it's better for me but... Much shorter shelf life obviously.


 
The "conditioner" has potassium sorbate in it. If you have already added sorbate to the DB, don't use the conditioner. It doesn't need any more sorbate, and you don't want to taste wine with too much sorbate in it, unless you like drinking geraniums. Yuck!

If you have not added sorbate, then the conditioner would be fine. Unfortunately, in the small amount you would be using to get the SG you want (from back sweetening), you would probably be coming up short on the needed sorbate. Better, I would think, to stick with adding sorbate and sugar separately, so you know just what you are getting. But it's up to you.

Potassium sorbate is no worse for you than table salt when used properly. Used in the right quanity, it will keep your wine from refermenting in the bottle, and it's a source of potassium in your diet.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Potassium sorbate is no worse for you than table salt when used properly. 
The other choice would be sodium benzonate, but its just about like sorbate, both do about the same thing..both you probably consume everday, if you use deodarant, drink a soda, are eat fast food.
If your wine is completely clear, meaning no sediment at all, and your abv is 12 percent are better, there is no need for sorbate.
Wine can only ferment if there is yeast present, in a completely clear wine, there should not be any yeast left, and if its high alcohol the yeast cant live. and make sure it is degassed.


----------



## wineforfun

Bottled up my DB Choco-Lime. Not real sold on it right now. The lime and chocolate aren't playing well together. I will let it sit for a couple of months and give it a try and see if they have blended better.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks Dave and James! I already put the potassium Sorbate in as I was following instructions. So I won't be using the conditioner after all. It's good to have this info though. 

While I try to avoid certain ingredients most of the time I know they're hidden in practically everything and it's near impossible to be 100% organic. I've come to a resolution on the matter. But I don't drink soda, eat fast food or use chemicals in any form on my body. But.... I did use the bottled lemon juice in my DB recipe and that has sodium bensoate in it. I suppose I could use real lemons but I'm too lazy!


----------



## jamesngalveston

lol, actually thats funny...lime are lemon are even grapefruit and chocolate together....

thats like beets and rice. ugggh.
hope it taste better after it ages...at least your experimenting.


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## hawk022499

Here is the final product for my 1st batch of DB. It has a ABV of 13.3 which is a little higher than I had intended. This is only my second attempt at wine making so I need to work on that beginning SG a little, lol.

This pic is day 15 and ready to bottle.


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## dangerdave

Very nice, Hawk! The color is perfect!

How does it taste with the extra kick?


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## hawk022499

I have actually held off until the wife comes home from work. 

Been tempted...

So I put them back in the bottle box and took them to the basement so I wouldn't have to look at them for a few hours!


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## jamesngalveston

excellent hawk. hide them away, the will disappear before you know it.
best thing to do....start another batch , immediately
did i say make more,,,,,make lots more.


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## ckvchestnut

Wow! Looks beautiful! Did you filter or just rack?


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## jamesngalveston

I have never had to filter any batch of dragon blood. I do however use super kleer, and not sparkoloid....mine is always a gorgeous color/ with clarity.


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## ckvchestnut

Aha... In have read that super Kleer works better than sparkalloid? Or faster? I used sparkalloid but that's all I had on hand... Will this take considerably longer than a week to clear?


----------



## jamesngalveston

super kleer usually clears my wine in 24 to 36 hours, one batch made from fig took almost 50, but figs make a wine that is very high in lees..about 35 percent.


----------



## jamesngalveston

btw...i buy by the case: and this is how i use it...after using about 40 of the super kleer packets, I think there instructions are wrong and have repeately send them email on this...they have yet to answer.
Liqour Qwik is just a site selling there wares..If the directions are wrong, they will offer to sell you more.
This is how I use it...Just saying.
I add the first packet and stir gently.
About 10 minutes later I add the second Packet mixed with about 1 ounce of water. and stir the hell out of it.
then wait till it is clear.
not advising, just saying what i do.
might work for me, might not for u.


----------



## dangerdave

James has me convinced---a while back, actually---to make the change to Super Kleer when my Sparkolloid is all gone. To convince myself, I'm getting some SK to test next to my Sparkolloid.


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## ckvchestnut

Ok interesting! It's definitely on my next supplies list! Thanks everyone  I do find that I really tried my best to keep as much of the lees out of that first racking as possible I left about an inch of juice in top of the lees and then poured that into a small juice jug so I could draw any extra juice of with a turkey baster. But now I seem to have a good inch or 1.5" of hat looks like much finer lees is that due to the sparkalloid? I sure like the idea of clearing faster when I'm short on time!


----------



## hawk022499

ckvchestnut said:


> Wow! Looks beautiful! Did you filter or just rack?



No, I used sparkalloid and just let everything settle out. It worked pretty quick in the DB. I used it in my tropical version 2 days after I added it to the DB and it is still very cloudy. I have been considering hitting it with some Pectin Enzyme. Might give it a few more days to see what shakes out.

Thanks for the compliments. It's nice to have a good turnout when you are just starting. But, it's also nice to have a sure-fire recipe to use..thanks Dave.


----------



## ckvchestnut

hawk022499 said:


> No, I used sparkalloid and just let everything settle out. It worked pretty quick in the DB. I used it in my tropical version 2 days after I added it to the DB and it is still very cloudy. I have been considering hitting it with some Pectin Enzyme. Might give it a few more days to see what shakes out. Thanks for the compliments. It's nice to have a good turnout when you are just starting. But, it's also nice to have a sure-fire recipe to use..thanks Dave.



Let us know how long it takes on your tropical version! I intend to make that one as well. Did you crack that bottle open yet to try it? It seems a shame to open the bottles right after they have been bottled but I guess that's the eventual purpose of making wine! I'm going to have to hide bottles of my DB from my husband, and make another batch right away.


----------



## hawk022499

jamesngalveston said:


> excellent hawk. hide them away, the will disappear before you know it.
> best thing to do....start another batch , immediately
> did i say make more,,,,,make lots more.



Lol, point taken. I have to work tomorrow so I will probably get to that on Friday. I do have that tropical variation clearing and a SP in primary as we speak.

I know this is off topic but I did start a Mosto Bello Valpolicella frozen juice bucket today also.


----------



## cmason1957

I have used Super Klee a number of times and followed the directions each time. It always clears for me quite well. Since it is a negative and a positive clearing agent adding them at the same time would not be what I would suggest.


----------



## rucusworks

Well, here is my unlabeled product. From pitched to bottled in only 20 days. I let it sit a few extra days after back sweetening. This is fantastic! Just amazed how quickly it cleared. Thank you to all who helped us in any way!  cheers


----------



## ckvchestnut

That looks great ruckus! Well this morning looking through the carboy I can just see the other side of the glass carboy while looking through and with natural backlighting maybe I'll be good to go on the 7th day but if not I'll give it time!


----------



## hawk022499

rucusworks said:


> Well, here is my unlabeled product. From pitched to bottled in only 20 days. I let it sit a few extra days after back sweetening. This is fantastic! Just amazed how quickly it cleared. Thank you to all who helped us in any way!  cheers



Good job Rucus. It's a great feeling to have that nice of a wine sitting in front of you in such a short period, isn't it?!


----------



## jamesngalveston

nice job ruckus....now imagine, you can substitute any fruit you like for the berries, the possibilities are endless....
I just made an apple blush, that is excellent.....


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> nice job ruckus....now imagine, you can substitute any fruit you like for the berries, the possibilities are endless.... I just made an apple blush, that is excellent.....



Yum!! Did you blend the apples with another type of fruit to get the blush colour? The colour of our cider juice is a pinkish rusty colour because one of our varieties of crabapples are very red like mini red delicious apples. I wonder what colour it will end up?


----------



## jamesngalveston

I bought welches apple juice concentrate and used 4 cans per gallon.
I had apples given to me from wisconsin..I used the apple juce, and 10 lbs of apples I used the peeling from to color...
I soaked the peelings in pectin enzyme for 2 days, and add to the bucket for primary ferment.
The red peelings made a nice color.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> I bought welches apple juice concentrate and used 4 cans per gallon. I had apples given to me from wisconsin..I used the apple juce, and 10 lbs of apples I used the peeling from to color... I soaked the peelings in pectin enzyme for 2 days, and add to the bucket for primary ferment. The red peelings made a nice color.



Ah that's interesting as apart from the concentrate that's exactly eat we did! Except we crushed the apples and pressed them in straining bags and then we put the juice and apples pulp, peelings (in their straining bags) into the pails with pectic enzyme for 2 days prior to pitching yeast. We didn't so this the last time we made cider we only used the juice from our apples and the colour came out pretty much a pale yellow like white wine. Hmmm so maybe we might come out with a tad more colour this year. Shall see!


----------



## jamesngalveston

my usb cable broke on my phone, and someone stole my camera, are i would post a pic..but it is very nice reddish/gold...
i started a batch of peach blush from juice, and used another 10lbs of apple peelings for color on it. and it has about the same color.
Wish i could get enough fresh apples to crush my own, but not in south texas.


----------



## dangerdave

Today was a big wine making day! I got started on 18 gallons of DB in my big fermenter, 6 gallons of Jet Blue (blueberry DB), 6 gallons of Washingtom Muscato (for my woman!), and three gallons of orange chocolate port for next Fall.

It's a great feeling!


----------



## jamesngalveston

you were a busy man....good for you...and idle mind, is .......whatever.


----------



## rucusworks

Final product. What do you think of the new label?


----------



## dangerdave

Perfect! Love the label! Welcome to the DB family!

You got more going yet? It'll go quick!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Looks Great!! Nice label too it complements the color of the DB!


----------



## rucusworks

dangerdave said:


> Perfect! Love the label! Welcome to the DB family!
> 
> You got more going yet? It'll go quick!



Thanks again for all your help. This forum has such great people and knowledge. I am definitely going to get another batch of DB going. It's so quick and easy.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> my usb cable broke on my phone, and someone stole my camera, are i would post a pic..but it is very nice reddish/gold... i started a batch of peach blush from juice, and used another 10lbs of apple peelings for color on it. and it has about the same color. Wish i could get enough fresh apples to crush my own, but not in south texas.



Sounds a wonderful color! I'll be sure to take some pics if mine turns out similar!


----------



## Tess

LoneStarLori said:


> Thanks so much for posting the recipe, Danger. I _think_ going to start with your tried and true version of DB. But I may be tempted to add more blueberries.
> I'm also thinking of something for a holiday version. Probably cranberry/orange/spice. What's the average wait time for best flavor?



I have made the original and a black and Blue version. I like them both after a little time in the bottle. Getting ready to make another batch myself. Try it at Christmas and see. My last batch was great right out of the carboy I topped it off with a mango quick drinker that Im not happy with but is great for this!!!


----------



## hawk022499

Well, here are the final projects for my 1st tropical DB variation and original SP.

I checked the TA on the tropical after fermentation and it was pretty low, .36. I raised it to .60 and it helped the wine out a lot. It was flat and I guess what would be called flabby. Has some zing to it now. Balanced out the sweetness at 1.018.

My wife initially tried before adjusting acid and said she didn't like it at all. After adjustments and balancing the sweetness she said it was really good.


----------



## hawk022499

Here is the tropical pic.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Thats a really nice color. How long did it take that to clear?


----------



## hawk022499

The tropical I started on 9/27 and first cleared with Sparkalloid on 10/3. It took out a lot of sediment but the wine stayed hazy. I added 3 tsp of Pectin Enzyme after about 1 1/2 wks of being hazy and no indication of clearing. (compared to how fast the DB and SP cleared.) That helped a little. I finally added Super-Kleer on 10/18. It cleared within 24hrs.

The SP was started on 10/3 and I added the S-K on 10/18 the same time I added it to the tropical. It was crystal clear within 24 hrs also.

I think I may be sticking with the Super-Kleer as my fining agent from here on out. I waited 1 hr between the 2 parts like the instructions say and it worked amazingly well.


----------



## jamesngalveston

nice looking wine you have hawk..it always amazes me when the color comes through, batch to batch
super kleer is a great clearing agent.
I have a batch of tropical going , and waiting on shipment of super kleer.
Hope mine has that same color...


----------



## hawk022499

Thanks Lori and James.

The tropical had me worried for a few days.

I altered the DB recipe by using 64oz pineapple juice and 16oz lime juice instead of the lemon. I used 6lbs of the pineapple, mango, strawberry mix for the fruit. I also added 3 1/2lbs of bananas as I heard this helps with adding a little body. At my wife's request I also added 2oz of Peach flavoring after ferm and stabilization.

I hadn't purchased an acid test kit until after I was about done with primary ferm. When I stabilized and back sweetened I was pretty disappointed. Real flat and just not what I had pictured. After testing I realized why with the low TA. When I added acid it had that stinging of the lips zing. So I started to worry I added too much even though that's what the calculations told me to add and a second test told me it was at the lower end of what I thought was normal (.60) it sat a night and the next day I tried it again. The acid zing had settled a bit. I had also read that evening about back sweetening to balance the acid. When I hit 1.018 on SG it finally seemed like what I was expecting. That was a big weight off my shoulders. My wife who initially said she didn't like it and "wouldn't drink that" said "Now that is actually some pretty good wine." Score one for the home team!!!

It's nice because you can't really zero in on any one fruit and say it stands out. It's a really nice blend of all of them. Final ABV 11%


----------



## LoneStarLori

I'm not sure if it was the banana, the vitamin B complex or the spring water. Maybe all three. Whichever, the must seems very happy without the yeast energizer. SG after 48 hrs, 1.047, temp 67.5º.
There is no taste of either the vitamin B or the banana. 
The B-complex is from Swanson Vitamins online and has no taste or smell even if you let it dissolve in your mouth. Thats why I didn't hesitate to use it. They are a great source for vitamins, natural juice concentrates and organic spices. (no, I am not affiliated  )


----------



## wineforfun

Ah yes, another DB baby is born.

Looking good Lori.


----------



## dangerdave

Hawk, those look marvelous! 

Lori: Glad you got it going. Nice cap you've got there!


----------



## iVivid

Now I wish I'd added Bentonite, but I'm on day 4 and SG 1.015.
Does anyone know the ingredient in Sparkalloid, as we don't get that here that I know of.
I have lots of the sachets left out of Wine Expert kit wines (because I'm a patient person) and let them clear themselves over time.
I've got the ones from reds and whites rocking around; suitable at all do you know? I've never really used them lol.
This DB I would like an early drinker tho so I'm thinking I might try one of them ::


----------



## jamesngalveston

Use super kleer instead....its faster and cleaner..
and you can get it on the net.


----------



## iVivid

Found quote on the net: Super Kleer is able to clear the beer or wine in 12 - 48 hours. It is made up of 50ml Chitosan and 15ml Kieselsol.
I have finings with those ingredients; so will use what I have with different branding lol. Cool, thanks James!


----------



## dangerdave

*Dragon Blood* has gone international!  Sweet!

Good luck, iVivid! The Super Kleer (alternative) should work great!


----------



## wineforfun

dangerdave said:


> *Dragon Blood* has gone international!  Sweet!



Hey Dave,
Next stop for DB is the moon!!


----------



## Jericurl

Ok, I finally got in sorbital and superkleer in.
I will probably re-rack tomorrow and add both, then wait a week and backsweeten. 
Looks like I'll be drinking this in about two weeks, just in time for Thanksgiving.


----------



## jamesngalveston

add your super kleer first, then 3 days later add your sorbate, then 3 days later add your simple syrup, are what ever you will use to backsweeten.
you really should add your sorbate when your wine is clear...clear wine equals less yeast....


----------



## Tess

guys hold your camera phone the other way when it posts sideways lol Looks good everyone. Nothing like the color of Dragons Blood.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Holy Dragon Batman! Mine is at 1.004 already after only 72 hours! 
Question is should I rack it tomorrow? I'm sure it will be down to 1.00 tomorrow morning and I have to leave for the weekend. Or, just let her keep simmering away.


----------



## jamesngalveston

let it go dry..so leave for the weekend, have fun, and when you get back...
have a glass.....


----------



## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> let it go dry..so leave for the weekend, have fun, and when you get back...
> have a glass.....



That was my thought. I'll leave it.
It's so lively right now, I'd hate to ruin the little yeasties party. They're having so much fun in there.


----------



## jamesngalveston

like a yeasty orgie..LOL


----------



## Jericurl

> add your super kleer first, then 3 days later add your sorbate, then 3 days later add your simple syrup, are what ever you will use to backsweeten.
> you really should add your sorbate when your wine is clear...clear wine equals less yeast....



Ok then, that is exactly what I will do.


----------



## Tripplett

iVivid said:


> Does anyone know the ingredient in Sparkalloid, as we don't get that here that I know of.



Sparkolloid Fining Agent
Sparkolloid is a fining agent developed by Scott Laboratories for clarification. It is a blend of polysaccharides in a diatomaceous earth carrier and has a strong positive charge. For some, it is the product of choice for clarifying white and blush wines. Sparkolloid is one of the more benign fining materials, and when used in reasonable quantities, it seldom strips wine flavors or aromas. It neutralizes the repelling charge of particulate matter allowing aggregation and formation of compact lees. It does not remove desirable color constituents. It is not a cold stabilizing, heat stabilizing or odor removing agent. 1 tsp. per gallon clarifies naturally by removing protein haze.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Tripplett said:


> Sparkolloid Fining Agent
> Sparkolloid is a fining agent developed by Scott Laboratories for clarification. It is a blend of polysaccharides in a diatomaceous earth carrier and has a strong positive charge. For some, it is the product of choice for clarifying white and blush wines. Sparkolloid is one of the more benign fining materials, and when used in reasonable quantities, it seldom strips wine flavors or aromas. It neutralizes the repelling charge of particulate matter allowing aggregation and formation of compact lees. It does not remove desirable color constituents. It is not a cold stabilizing, heat stabilizing or odor removing agent. 1 tsp. per gallon clarifies naturally by removing protein haze.




_and_... it's really fun to watch


----------



## ckvchestnut

I used sparkalloid as I already had it on hand, it didn't change the flavour of my DB at all and took less than a week and only 1 racking at time of application to clear. I am really interested in trying the super Kleer after reading everyone's positive feedback on it but only for the speed side of it. I posted this in the labels thread but thought i would share! My elderberry blush has been in the carboy for 4 weeks and it's still not clear after 1st racking. 

Thanks DangerDave and everyone on this wonderful forum for this YUMMY recipe and all the wonderful discussion on this and the other skeeter pee recipes! My life has been transformed!! Lol This will NOT be good for my diet but what the heck!


----------



## LoneStarLori

Those a beautiful. I am excited to see what this turns out like. Might be my new breakfast juice.


----------



## ckvchestnut

LoneStarLori said:


> Those a beautiful. I am excited to see what this turns out like. Might be my new breakfast juice.



Haha! Lori! Ditto here! Spiked breakfast fruit smoothie! ;-)


----------



## dangerdave

Breakfast juice?! Now, you're in trouble!

You are very welcome ckvchestnut! Transforming lives is what I do! 

Well, no, not really...


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> Breakfast juice?! Now, you're in trouble! You are very welcome ckvchestnut! Transforming lives is what I do!  Well, no, not really...


 Haha! Ummmm maybe!! Last night as sharing a bottle with hubby a question popped up in my head..... "Was Danger Dave your nickname before you created this drink?? Or afterwards??" Cuz it's DANGER-OUS! We had the will power to stop at just the one bottle but boy is it fruity and smooth! It's growing on me quickly!

Oh ya and even one of my daughters who hates wine took a forced sip of it and I watched as her eyebrows raised and after she swallowed she said that's pretty good! Oh oh, now I AM in trouble as she's only 17! Lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have had many a non wine drinker try it, then ask for a bottle to take home.......I love it.....


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya it's awesome! I feel giddy that I found such great recipe that I can vary so much. I read on another thread I think it was James? Who uses white grape peach concentrate instead of the fruit and apart from the tropical variation that I want to try, this looks awesome too! Or maybe it was this thread not sure but I have taken down many notes and will be having fun with this recipe for a long time I'm sure!


----------



## dangerdave

ckvchestnut said:


> "Was Danger Dave your nickname before you created this drink?? Or afterwards??"


 
The nickname, "Danger" was given to me by a good friend back when I used to be an avid whitewater kayaker (in my 20's and 30's). I don't kayak much anymore, but the name stuck---as such things do---and it makes me pine for my younger days.

I'm glad you're enjoying it. Wine is all about enjoyment.


----------



## jamesngalveston

ckvchestnut send yu the whitegrape peach recipe.


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> The nickname, "Danger" was given to me by a good friend back when I used to be an avid whitewater kayaker (in my 20's and 30's). I don't kayak much anymore, but the name stuck---as such things do---and it makes me pine for my younger days. I'm glad you're enjoying it. Wine is all about enjoyment.


 That's a great story! Ya I think a lot of us pine for something from our younger days! I also used to avidly enjoy downhill skiing but the last time I took my husband my knees could barely hack it! They were in pain on the chair lift! At least I still have my horses and it's a bit easier on the knees


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> ckvchestnut send yu the whitegrape peach recipe.



Awesome awesome awesome James I really appreciate your time to send that to me! I pm'd you a big thanks! I'll be posting my experience with that one no doubt! Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

I stopped snowboarding when i was in my 40s, when I turned 55 i was determined to do it again...It did not turn out well.
Then I decided to surf...That did not turn out well either.
Then I tried to water ski again...
Now I make wine..sit on my porch swing with company, have dinner and go to bed...
lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> I stopped snowboarding when i was in my 40s, when I turned 55 i was determined to do it again...It did not turn out well. Then I decided to surf...That did not turn out well either. Then I tried to water ski again... Now I make wine..sit on my porch swing with company, have dinner and go to bed... lol



Haha! Sounds just like us! I bet I couldn't even get up out of the water again for water skiing! My girls snowboard and I said I would never try it - ever! I value my previously broken tailbone too much lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

where your from ckvchestnut....upper east coast...


----------



## dangerdave

jamesngalveston said:


> I stopped snowboarding when i was in my 40s, when I turned 55 i was determined to do it again...It did not turn out well.
> Then I decided to surf...That did not turn out well either.
> Then I tried to water ski again...
> Now I make wine..sit on my porch swing with company, have dinner and go to bed...
> lol


 
I didn't take up snowboarding until I was 38 (it replaced kayaking), and I still love it at 50! Can't wait for some snow! I hope to do a couple more trips out west to the big mountains before I give it up.

Sounds like that better be soon!


----------



## jamesngalveston

lol, dave....the turns are really hard at 55.....


----------



## Tess

dangerdave said:


> I didn't take up snowboarding until I was 38 (it replaced kayaking), and I still love it at 50! Can't wait for some snow! I hope to do a couple more trips out west to the big mountains before I give it up.
> 
> Sounds like that better be soon!



I broke a hip just reading this! lol


----------



## LoneStarLori

55 ain't so bad. It's when I learned to take up a new hobby. Winemaking. CHEERS~~!

Had to leave my DB fermentation on day 5 for a few days, so I threw 1/2 lb of dried cranberries in it yesterday morning to keep the yeasty orgy (as James put it) happy. Oh wow! The color was gorgeous this morning. 
Can't wait to get back and rack it Sunday.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> where your from ckvchestnut....upper east coast...


 Close! Eastern Ontario near Ottawa and the Quebec border! Well I'll have to MAYBE try my hand or body a something old or new but very carefully lol! I've always been a pretty careful type even though I have been known to engage in somewhat dangerous sports lol! just how do you carry out extreme sports in a careful manner?? Haha it too is a balancing act like wine making


----------



## hawk022499

Just kicked off my attempt at a "holiday season" variation. I used Ocean Spray Cranberry-pomegranate juice and added 6lbs cranberries and 7 pomegranates. Sweetened with 5 lbs honey (ran out) so I had to finish with sugar to 1.080. Pitched Montrachet yeast 24 hrs after letting must sit with Kmeta added to fruit.

Sure smelled good this morning when I left for work. You can smell the hint of honey under the fruit smell.


----------



## dangerdave

Cranberry-pomegranate melomel? Never would have thought of that! Very creative, Hawk. Let us know how that turns out.


----------



## wineforfun

ckvchestnut said:


> Awesome awesome awesome James I really appreciate your time to send that to me! I pm'd you a big thanks! I'll be posting my experience with that one no doubt! Carolyn



I too got James recipe and will get it going tomorrow. Can't wait to see how it turns out.


----------



## ckvchestnut

wineforfun said:


> I too got James recipe and will get it going tomorrow. Can't wait to see how it turns out.



Let us know how it goes!


----------



## Tess

James recipe?? What your recipe James? I want to try it. Other then Dave himself I cant see anyone knowing anymore about the Blood!!


----------



## iVivid

I racked to secondary yesterday; looking good the top 2-3 inches is clearing. I'm degassing (vacuum) like crazy; drawing close to 25Hg about 6 times today (sore hands)... how much should I keep doing? What I'm asking is, when is it enough; I don't know what signs as I'm used to degassing by leaving in the carboy for a year or 2 lol. I'm getting big bubbles as opposed to tiny; and they still cover the whole surface if I pump like crazy; the top 2-3 inches is still clear despite the vacuum degassing. I haven't added the finings yet, is it good to add them now do you think or degas for another few days?


----------



## jamesngalveston

wait till you get about 1/2 of lees on the bottom and rack.
bottom rack...meaning....stick your hose all the way to the bottom of what you will be racking too....
after a few times of this, there will hardly be any co2 at all.


----------



## Tess

I sheet rack my DB. Hold the hose to the top side of the carboy and let it wash down the side. I dont have to do much degassing at all after that.


----------



## sour_grapes

ckvchestnut said:


> Haha! Sounds just like us! I bet I couldn't even get up out of the water again for water skiing! My girls snowboard and I said I would never try it - ever! I value my previously broken tailbone too much lol



When I was young, I used to skateboard constantly, and I used to ski a bit, too. Nothing serious, just east-coast skiing. Snowboards, of course, had yet to be invented.

Fast-forward 20 years, and I was at a conference at a ski resort. I skied (conventional) a couple of days, but then some non-skiing friends said they wanted to try. I decided to accompany them to the baby hill, and I would finally try snowboarding while they tried skiing. I was _confident_ that with my skater experience, I would take to snowboarding like a duck to water. 

Well, not so much. I fell down over and over and over and over again. Finally, I landed funny with my fists between me and the ground, and broke a rib. On the baby hill, mind you. Now, on the rare occasions I get to ski, I just do conventional skiing; I figure that I will never have the time to learn to snowboard, so I might as well just ski conventional and enjoy it!


----------



## sour_grapes

dangerdave said:


> The nickname, "Danger" was given to me by a good friend back when I used to be an avid whitewater kayaker (in my 20's and 30's). I don't kayak much anymore, but the name stuck---as such things do---and it makes me pine for my younger days.



I assumed it had something to do with that sledding accident you showed that beautiful, bittersweet picture of!


----------



## ckvchestnut

sour_grapes said:


> When I was young, I used to skateboard constantly, and I used to ski a bit, too. Nothing serious, just east-coast skiing. Snowboards, of course, had yet to be invented. Fast-forward 20 years, and I was at a conference at a ski resort. I skied (conventional) a couple of days, but then some non-skiing friends said they wanted to try. I decided to accompany them to the baby hill, and I would finally try snowboarding while they tried skiing. I was confident that with my skater experience, I would take to snowboarding like a duck to water. Well, not so much. I fell down over and over and over and over again. Finally, I landed funny with my fists between me and the ground, and broke a rib. On the baby hill, mind you. Now, on the rare occasions I get to ski, I just do conventional skiing; I figure that I will never have the time to learn to snowboard, so I might as well just ski conventional and enjoy it!



Exactly my point I prefer to avoid broken ribs altogether


----------



## dangerdave

sour_grapes said:


> I assumed it had something to do with that sledding accident you showed that beautiful, bittersweet picture of!


 
That was an early indication of things to come. I have never broken a bone (knock-knock), but I had nearly 1200 stitches before I was 18 years old. My doctor used to joke that they were going to build a suture wing on the hospital with my name on it.


----------



## LoneStarLori

I'm curious. Has anyone ever used a wine conditioner on DB?


----------



## dangerdave

Lori, a wine conditioner is a sweetener and stabilizer all in one----usually potassium sorbate and sugar. I much prefer to control each one separately. You wouldn't want to add too much sorbate (yucky!) while trying to get the sweetness you want, nor come up short on the sorbate while holdong the sugar back. You would be lucky, I think, to find the balance of personal taste plus security in one bottle.


----------



## LoneStarLori

dangerdave said:


> Lori, a wine conditioner is a sweetener and stabilizer all in one----usually potassium sorbate and sugar. I much prefer to control each one separately. You wouldn't want to add too much sorbate (yucky!) while trying to get the sweetness you want, nor come up short on the sorbate while holdong the sugar back. You would be lucky, I think, to find the balance of personal taste plus security in one bottle.



Thanks Dave. I have never used it and was wondering about it. I didn't realize it had a stabilizer. Makes perfect sense not to use it. Sugar it will be.


----------



## sour_grapes

dangerdave said:


> That was an early indication of things to come. I have never broken a bone (knock-knock), but I had nearly 1200 stitches before I was 18 years old. My doctor used to joke that they were going to build a suture wing on the hospital with my name on it.



I see! I had probably in the hundreds, but never had a big cut -- just 10 or so stitches at a time. 1200 is a big number!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree with dave, the wine stabilizer sounds good, but its more sorbate then sugar...
If my wine is above 12 percent, i never use sorbate.
I you want to test your wine for referment, add some wine to a glass and add a pinch of sugar. If it is capable of refermenting, you will know in about an hour
always add a simple syrup, never raw white sugar.


----------



## dangerdave

Good advice, there, James.


----------



## Tripplett

iVivid said:


> I racked to secondary yesterday; looking good the top 2-3 inches is clearing. I'm degassing (vacuum) like crazy; drawing close to 25Hg about 6 times today (sore hands)... how much should I keep doing? What I'm asking is, when is it enough; I don't know what signs as I'm used to degassing by leaving in the carboy for a year or 2 lol. I'm getting big bubbles as opposed to tiny; and they still cover the whole surface if I pump like crazy; the top 2-3 inches is still clear despite the vacuum degassing. I haven't added the finings yet, is it good to add them now do you think or degas for another few days?



I read somewhere on here that if you can vacuum to 25Hg and it's still holds above 15Hg after sitting for 20 minutes then you are done. I vacuum to 25, let it fall back to 15, and go back to 25 and repeat till it is holding over 15. This has always worked for me. I try not to go much over 25 on anything. If I have a batch that is stubborn I let it go to 10 before killing my hand pumping again. When I get an allinone degassing will be so much easier.


----------



## iVivid

Tripplett said:


> When I get an allinone degassing will be so much easier.



What's an allinone?


----------



## jamesngalveston

http://allinonewinepump.com/ 

one of our sponsors here, and a great guy to talk with, and he is numero ono in customer service and makes a great wine making tool.


----------



## Jericurl

I think I'm going to let my Dragon's Piss age a bit longer but I did stabilize, clear, and backsweeten it. I snuck a taste of it today....wow....this is really pretty good. It is overwhelmingly a strawberry taste but the color is bright magenta. I'm guessing the strawberries flavored it and the prickly pear took over in the color department.


----------



## jamesngalveston

tropical db clearing, and spiced peach fortified with everclear test batch..
kind of like apple moonshine, but better...ino....


----------



## wineforfun

jamesngalveston said:


> I agree with dave, the wine stabilizer sounds good, but its more sorbate then sugar...
> If my wine is above 12 percent, i never use sorbate.
> I you want to test your wine for referment, add some wine to a glass and add a pinch of sugar. If it is capable of refermenting, you will know in about an hour
> always add a simple syrup, never raw white sugar.



Why no sorbate if over 12%? Is that enough alcohol to kill off any refermenting?


----------



## iVivid

jamesngalveston said:


> http://allinonewinepump.com/
> 
> one of our sponsors here, and a great guy to talk with, and he is numero ono in customer service and makes a great wine making tool.



OK, I want one!


----------



## Jericurl

You guys, I did it! I made wine!

I drew out a bit for pictures...I'll be bottling this weekend.
I'm waiting on my corker to get in.
Super easy process and it tastes good! Thanks Dave!


----------



## LoneStarLori

Woo hooo Jeri! That looks spectacular. How does it taste? My first batch is still clearing and I haven't even tasted it.


----------



## LoneStarLori

iVivid said:


> OK, I want one!



I have been drooling and dreaming about one for the last two months. I was going to ask Santa, but he never tells my husband the right thing to buy. 
Being the kind sole that I am, I did them both a favor and ordered it yesterday. 

Can't wait to try it!


----------



## Tess

Dont taste it till it done Lori, Good Job Jeri. Love the pics!! wait till its a couple months old!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Congrats, jericurl...welcome to the db club, where we snob the wine makers that think that wine has to age for a few years to be good,are drinkable...wine looks great, now...
if you have a truck...better get some more carboys...LOL


----------



## Tess

hey Im doing my first 20 gallon brute batch this week!! lol


----------



## cmason1957

wineforfun said:


> Why no sorbate if over 12%? Is that enough alcohol to kill off any refermenting?



12% is probably not enough to gaurantee no refermenting. Sorbate is generally considered to be the way to keep the yeast from reproducing and starting to referment. It does depend somewhat on the yeast used, but I had a yeast I wax using for a port take sugar all the way to 22% even though the specs said it would stop at 18%.


----------



## dessertmaker

Sample early sample often! The more you sample the less you share.

And the easier it is over time to tell if something is slightly "off."

It tastes like acid and rocket fuel at first. But it's a beautiful journey to take your tastebuds on. From rocket fuel to red wine!!!


----------



## wineforfun

LoneStarLori said:


> Being the kind sole that I am, I did them both a favor and ordered it yesterday.



haha
That is awesome.


----------



## wineforfun

Jericurl said:


> You guys, I did it! I made wine!
> 
> I drew out a bit for pictures...I'll be bottling this weekend.
> I'm waiting on my corker to get in.
> Super easy process and it tastes good! Thanks Dave!



Looks great Jeri. Welcome to DBI(Dragon Blood International)

One question for you, what is the green in the primary? Kiwi?


----------



## dangerdave

*DBI*...I like that!

Excellent job, Jeri. It looks awesome! Like I always say, get some more going...it'll go fast! I just made 18 gallons to get me through the holidays.


----------



## Tess

Buy your self the 20 gal brute now and save your self the hassle


----------



## LoneStarLori

wineforfun said:


> Looks great Jeri. Welcome to DBI(Dragon Blood International)
> 
> One question for you, what is the green in the primary? Kiwi?



I was wondering the same. Lime leafs?


----------



## Tess

LoneStarLori said:


> I have been drooling and dreaming about one for the last two months. I was going to ask Santa, but he never tells my husband the right thing to buy.
> Being the kind sole that I am, I did them both a favor and ordered it yesterday.
> 
> Can't wait to try it!



Getting mine for Christmas. I dont want to spend my own money for it lol


----------



## Jericurl

The green bits are lime leaves. 
If you chew on them, they taste like very acidic fruit loops.

I think there may be a small hint of it in the finished wine, but I think next batch I will put much more in.


----------



## jamesngalveston

small test batch of 1 gallon spiced peach db
and 3 gallon batch of tropical db both in clearing stage.


----------



## dangerdave

Nice, James. Lovely color!


----------



## Jericurl

James, 

Those both look fantastic.

Is the peach one from juice or fruit?


----------



## iVivid

Just made batch no. 2. Batch no. 1 not bottled yet, but tasted and TOO good 
Added some extra strawberries to this one! Mmmm (tis the season for them here now)!
And a decent sprig of mint from the garden. Love that smell...


----------



## Tess

Very pretty color James!!


----------



## Jericurl

My first bottled batch of wine.

25 750ml bottles, 1 1.5 liter bottle, one decanter, 1 glass of wine.
Not bad....not bad at all.


----------



## vacuumpumpman

Jericurl said:


> My first bottled batch of wine.
> 
> 25 750ml bottles, 1 1.5 liter bottle, one decanter, 1 glass of wine.
> Not bad....not bad at all.



Very nice ! 
I think you need to throw a party now - LOL


----------



## LoneStarLori

Nice color Jeri. When did you start it and how does it taste?


----------



## Jericurl

Lori

I started it on Oct 1.

It's actually pretty good. A little more tart than I prefer, but I imagine some of that will go away.
Overwhelming strawberry taste, nothing else really comes through. That's a bit of a disappointment. I was really hoping some of the vanilla and lime leaf would make an appearance.
I had a glass last week and Manthing tasted it. We bottled today and he tasted it again. He thinks it has smoothed out a bit.
So far, I like it.
I did put up a few in the dark olive green bottles. I'm hoping those last long enough to actually get a bit of age on them so that I can see how it ages.


----------



## PoppaCork

I am starting a batch of Dragon Blood but can't find any yeast energizer.

Can I double the yeast as a substitute?(recommended by my LHBS)


----------



## jamesngalveston

you could throw in a couple of chopped bannanas in the bag with the other fruit....


----------



## jamesngalveston

jeri, you have to add lots of vanilla for it to have a hint...scrape and use the whole vanilla bean next time....
i have no clue about the lime leaves....i would imagine you could cook them down and make an extract then use....
glad your db is good.....


----------



## PoppaCork

Thanks. I have couple. They're not black yet. Is that a problem?


----------



## sour_grapes

PoppaCork said:


> I am starting a batch of Dragon Blood but can't find any yeast energizer.
> 
> Can I double the yeast as a substitute?(recommended by my LHBS)



You have a LHBS, but he or she does not have yeast energizer? I find that surprising.

Why not order it online in that case. I am no expert, but I doubt having _twice_ as many stressed yeast will forestall any problems.


----------



## jamesngalveston

grapes, do you use yeast nutrient and energizer, are super ferment which has both...i switched to the super ferment...


----------



## sour_grapes

Well, I am NOT an expert. I have only done two kits where I did not use EC-1118. In both of those, I used both an energizer to start and a nutrient 1/3 through the sugar, using RC212 yeast. I did not have any off odors. Small dataset, and non-demanding situation.

Is superferment thought to be better than doling out the energizer and nutrient separately?


----------



## jamesngalveston

yes...its better....more stable ferment. i think it was turock that suggested it to me one time in a post, Its all i use now..


----------



## PoppaCork

I got my first batch of Dragon Blood started. 
I tried two different LHBS's and neither had yeast energizer, so I added a couple cut up banana's per suggestion from jamesgalveston. 

Here is a photo of it 18 hours after casting the yeast...



 

Room temp is 75°, must is 79°. 
It is a very active ferment at this point, and all seems well.


----------



## dangerdave

Very nice ferment you have there, Greg!

*For everyone's info, there is a new thread titled "DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine" in the recipe section. We are trying to center all DB discussion there, if you all don't mind.*


----------



## PoppaCork

Moved the Dragon Blood to the bottle last night. Taste great! 
The wife and I killed two + bottles last night. I did hide six bottles to try sometime next year.

Going to start some with just blueberry in a day or so, then another triple berry... 



 

Now I just need to get a 20 gallon fermenter from HD so I can keep ahead of the NEED!


----------



## jamesngalveston

beautiful color....blueberry is excellent....


----------



## Fordguy

The last few batches that I have made have been 12 gallon batches with 9 lbs of blueberries and 8 lbs of strawberries. 
This has been my favorite flavor.
I have tried all cherry with lime juice, all cherry with lemon juice, triple berries with lemon and also lime.
You can vary this recipe in so many ways. 
Thanks to Dave for his recipe and also Lon for his skeeter pee recipe. I have enjoyed Lon's recipe as well.


----------



## Rosa321

Hello!

I'm a newbie, and can't wait to try this recipe as soon as my primary fermentor is free!  I have to ask though... how much bentonite? Or does it come in small packets like yeast? Just asking...so I don't make a novice mistake!!


----------



## Bambi

dangerdave said:


> I used my own personal recipe, a modified, simpler version of Lon's original skeeter pee recipe. I call the wine Dragon Blood. Here's the recipe. The only variation was the addition of bentonite to the primary before pitching the yeast.
> __________________________________________________________
> "DRAGON BLOOD"
> 
> FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE
> 
> Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:
> 
> Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order:
> 2 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): if you want to recude the acid level use one bottle.
> Water to about five gallons
> 20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.09 after filling to 6 gallons*): use less sugar for lower final ABV. Stir sugar until completely desolved.
> 1 tsp. tannin (stir)
> 4 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
> 2 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
> 3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
> Top water to six (6) gallons* (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.09) and stir well
> 6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--available in most grocery store freezer sections), frozen then thawed, in a nylon fine mesh bag (tied shut), placed in primary: Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme. May also toss fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and racking.
> Cover primary
> Place brew belt: Keep temp in 70F-80F range.
> Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...
> 
> Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
> 1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (starter, per yeast directions): Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains may also work well.
> Stir Primary Vigorously!
> 
> Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
> Check temp
> Check specific gravity
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: Temporarily place in sanitized bucket.
> Stir primary vigorously: To introduce oxygen into must.
> Replace fruit pack
> Cover primary
> 
> Step 4: When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: Discard fruit.
> Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
> Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
> Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
> Degas very thoroughly: I cannot emphasize this enough!
> Add Sparkolloid* (or other cleaing agent): *1 tbs in one cup of water simmered for about 30 minutes. Add hot mixture to carboy.
> Allow to clear undistrubed for no less than 1 week
> 
> Step 4: When wine is clear:
> Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
> Add 4-5 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely disolved): Add more or less sugar to taste. Remember! The sugars will blend with the berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!
> Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks.
> 
> Step 5: When wine is completely clear:
> Bottle in clear bottles
> Note: Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!
> __________________________________________________________
> 
> Starting SG was right at 1.085. Yeast was EC-1118---no slurry. I did not filter.
> 
> Yikes is right! I still can't believe it. I have two more batches going just to see if this was a miracle (Well, Jesus made wine, lots of it, and very quickly, too!)



Just gotta say that this sounds über delicious! I may use a triple berry combo of blueberries, strawberries, and saskatoons. 

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## jamesngalveston

double the amount of fruit....you will be happier....


----------



## Jericurl

I initially made a very heavy strawberry Dragon's Blood that I intended to use for Christmas presents.
I quickly realized that my 6 gallon batch was not going to last long enough to give everyone a bottle, so I started a new batch.
It's finished, just waiting on my corks to get here so that I can bottle.
It tastes amazing. Even better than my first batch of DB. 
Here is what I did:

Christmas 2013 wine

3 LB TRIPLE BERRY FROZEN BLEND (RASP, BLUEBERRIES,BLACKBERRIES)
5 LB MIXED FRUIT FROZEN BLEND (PEACHES,STRAWBERRIES,CANTALOUPE,PINEAPPLE AND GRAPES)
1 LB FIGS

2 BANANAS
1 LB DARK RAISINS (I ran these through my food processor with a bit of water)
3 CLOVES
2 LICORICE ROOT STICKS, BROKEN

1 40 OZ LEMON JUICE
2 11 OZ CANS OF WHITE GRAPE CONCENTRATE

1 T TANNIN
4 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
2 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)

SUGAR TO SG OF 1.09

Throw 1st 3 ingredients into a mesh bag. Add water to primary to about 5 gallons.
Add Lemon juice, and grape concentrate, stir.
Add sugar to SG of 1.09

BOIL 1 GALLON OF WATER WITH BANANAS, RAISINS, CLOVES, LICORICE ROOT FOR ABOUT TEN MINUTES. Strain and pour water into primary. Check SG and adjust if needed.

Add each of the additive, one by one, stirring after each addition.
Pitch yeast of choice.
I used pasteur champagne yeast.

Followed the rest of DB instructions as written.

Now, this won't win any awards, but it's the best thing I've made so far.
I'm incredibly happy with it.
Next time around, I want to double all of the fruit and see how it turns out.


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## dangerdave

That is an awesome variation, Jericurl! Very creative!


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## saramc

DangerDave.....what is the most up-to-date recipe/notes for the 'in 15 days' version?? With the many pages and tweaks, not sure myself. Want to provide some info to a new friend and want to direct to the most accurate one that you use. Thanks!


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## jamesngalveston

most current;

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f2/dangerdaves-dragon-blood-wine-41825/index12.html


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## dangerdave

Thanks, James. Got my back, as always.

The Super Kleer version was ready to bottle in 11 days! James, you are well aware of this, of course.


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## Jericurl

And here is a picture of the wine from the above recipe. We just finished bottling it.


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## ShelleyDickison

Jericurl said:


> And here is a picture of the wine from the above recipe. We just finished bottling it.



I love the labels. Did you burn the edges?


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## Jericurl

Manthing made them for me. He just printed them out for me with the edges colored like burnt paper, then contour cut them.


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## dangerdave

Very cool, Jericurl! Another success!


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## saramc

Thanks for the redirect to the most recent version. Want to confirm, no heating of the sugar-water-lemon like you do with Skeeter Pee?? When I have made this I just assumed I should be inverting like you do with Skeeter Pee. Thanks in advance.


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## jamesngalveston

saramc..it is good to see you back...hope everything is ok .
no heating of the sugar water lemon, with this.....I know this is not what you would usually make, but if you tried it once, i think you will find it a very
nice refreshing wine for the summer....when its hot there in kentucky.


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## cmason1957

Take this for what it is worth. I always invert the sugar. Doesn't matter to me if it is Dragons Blood, Skeeter Pee, or any fruit wines. My feeling is that inverting the sugar makes it easier for the yeast.


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## saramc

jamesngalveston said:


> no heating of the sugar water lemon, with this.....



Thanks James. I made this way back when Dave started this, even an early thread participant. Had already been making raspberry Skeeter Pee as fast as carboy space would allow. Even with my version & the 15-day DB version, I followed the principles of the Skeeter Pee recipe so the liquid base was inverted and yeast were less stressed. I think the DB notes even said something like 'make like Skeeter Pee'. BUT, it is good to know heat/inversion is not required though I think this would be an ideal clarified entry for this newest version..only because so very many are familiar with the inversion process that Skeeter Pee uses. 
-- I did notice the new version uses 1-48oz lemon vs more lemon juice in the original & a few other modifications. Any chance the link to most recent version could be added to Dave's post where the original recipe is currently found? A historical recipe page of sorts. Sure would simplify things, even Facebook page has a different recipe listed.

Anyway, my mission is complete and I just finished a phone consult as I walked a friend 50+ miles away thru their first batch, and their second non-kit wine to date. Going to be great!!


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## jamesngalveston

Well as stated earlier, it is good to see you posting again...
i for one miss your advise on fermentations....
there is a sticky for db....


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## saramc

jamesngalveston said:


> Well as stated earlier, it is good to see you posting again...
> i for one miss your advise on fermentations....
> there is a sticky for db....



Good to know about the sticky, I will go check that out! Having not yet looked, will we find just the most recent DB recipe or a historical recipe evolution?
Hopefully 2014 will be a bit more normal in terms of my winemaking, that is my goal anyway. So you should see me back to my normal activity level here. Woo hoo!! Missed everyone.


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## Pumpkinman

Saramc!
Good to see you back, I'm still using the extract method that you shared with me and nuts.com. Thanks again for your help, I hope to see you posting again!
Tom


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## maurtis

There is another thread on the forums about using dried malt extract (DME) in wines. Has anyone tried adding DME to a batch of DB? If you are using light or extra light DME it should not impart that much flavor and add body.

Of course, if bananas do the same thing they are definitely cheaper.


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## dangerdave

We have tried to consolidate all Dragon Blood related discussion to the recipe thread, here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f2/dangerdaves-dragon-blood-wine-41825/

Come join us!


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## Allie Geiger

Trying out this recipe! I'm on the first-day steps, but I have to wait until tomorrow to get my yeast energizer. Should I try throwing some bentonite in there too? At the same time as my yeast?


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## vizsla_red

anyone making this with a fast ferment conical?

should I let it start fermenting just in the cone for a day or so, *BEFORE* opening the union valve - and allowing a portion to dump into the bulb at the bottom?
or have the whole thing open, and filled to the bottom from the starting point?


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## francois_du_nord

This thread has slowed down a bunch, but lots of good info from earlier. I've just started a batch. I'll keep everybody posted. Inverted sugar, bentonite, 3 berry plus sweet cherries.


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## Yooper🍷

Hi Dave, been making wine since 1978 out of everything I could find in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Chokecherries, dandelion, elderberry, cranberry, bananas just to mention a few. I just started your recipe tonight with Meijer’s triple berry blend, came up with a SG of 1.100 which should amount to 13% ABV. Smells and tastes great. Can’t wait. One of the favorite wines I’ve made is Choke Cherry so I hope we have a good harvest this fall Trying to think of what I else I could put in the straining bag. Any suggestions? I was thinking Cranberries. I think the mix would be a very blush red. If I do that I will let you know how it comes out. I also wanted to ask if you have ever used a fruit base. I have a can of elderberry fruit base. I could weigh out 6 lbs and have a go at it. What do you think about that - would it work?
Monty


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