# Screw cap bottles



## WellingtonToad (Jan 7, 2014)

On another thread, JohnT made the comment "STAY AWAY FROM SCREW CAP BOTTLES".
As I use screw cap bottles almost exclusively, I thought a comment was required.
I use Novatwist caps. After a quick search, I see that these were mentioned and generally discarded back in 2011. My suggestion is give them a try.
How many times have you selected a bottle and sat down to enjoy only to realise the corkscrew is in the kitchen. No problem with screw caps.
I was once given 100 corks. For this I had to get a corking device, and find somewhere to keep it. I have corked the fine total of six bottles. Most remain unopened. More trouble than it is worth.
Just my opinion.


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## cpfan (Jan 7, 2014)

WellingtonToad said:


> On another thread, JohnT made the comment "STAY AWAY FROM SCREW CAP BOTTLES".
> As I use screw cap bottles almost exclusively, I thought a comment was required.
> I use Novatwist caps. After a quick search, I see that these were mentioned and generally discarded back in 2011. My suggestion is give them a try.
> How many times have you selected a bottle and sat down to enjoy only to realise the corkscrew is in the kitchen. No problem with screw caps.
> ...


Glad to hear that somebody is using NovaTwist caps and is happy with the results. Given the number of screw top bottles in the commercial market these days, this is very useful.

One problem is that the only place I know of that sells them is in the UK. Where are you getting yours?

Steve


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## HenryMae (Jan 7, 2014)

I'm a novice to winemaking but i feel like a corked bottle adds so much more to the experience of bottling and drinking. Screw caps just seem cheap. Nothing against you or your opinion, this is just mine.


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## WellingtonToad (Jan 8, 2014)

Cpfan,

The bad news for you is I am in Australia. Down south near Melbourne. I would suggest talking to your supplier to import some. It is only when there is a ground swell in opinion that some things happen. My intention was to suggest that there are alternatives to corks, and with corks slowly being phased out (in Australia at least) then other options need to be explored.

HenryMae,
Some (many) years ago I started making home brew beer. I gathered a collection of crown cap bottles for making beer. I still use them. Now you can't get them. My suggestion to you is get your Cork top bottles now while you still can. Get spares for just in case.
Fully respect your


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## JohnT (Jan 8, 2014)

Wellingtontoad, 

No surprise that you are from Australia. Screw caps are the preferred way to go "down under". Many of the best wines your country has to offer uses that method of closure.

You need to keep in mind that screw caps are rather rare for us Yanks. They are not readily available. Most beginners, desperate for bottles, will take screw cap bottles and insert a cork in them. I was trying to advise against this since screw cap bottles have a bit of a wider opening and much thinner glass in the neck of the bottle. Going with bottles that are made to accommodate a cork is the best way to go in this case. 

If, on the other hand, this beginner plans on using screw caps, then my advice is unwarranted. This, however, is highly unlikely. 

One thing about screw caps... Although they have a very bad reputation here in the US (in the past only cheap domestic wines came with a screw cap closure) they are, in fact, an excellent method of closure. The only negative I see in using screw caps is the fact that it is a perfect hermetic seal that will not allow for micro-oxidation over time. For the most part, this means that wine will get better with age unless it is sealed with a screw cap. This is not much of a problem as many screw cap winemakers "pre-age" the wine prior to bottling.


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## WellingtonToad (Jan 8, 2014)

JohnT,

What can I say, but I agree with you totally.

What I don't understand is that I hear of all of the good suppliers that everyone recommends. Yet none of them seem to offer screw caps.
Is this a case of "you can have any colour you want so long as it is black"?

For the hobbyist, screw caps are the way to go, IMHO. I have friends here who still use corks. For me screw caps are just easier.


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## JohnT (Jan 8, 2014)

WellingtonToad said:


> JohnT,
> 
> What can I say, but I agree with you totally.
> 
> ...


 

WT, 

I think that it is two factors at play here. In the us, screwcaps only came on cheap inexpensive domestic wine. As a result, they are looked down on by many, and are avoided. 

The other factor is the cost and availability of the equipment needed to install a screwcap (if any) onto a bottle.


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## WellingtonToad (Jan 8, 2014)

I understand that there is a perception of cheapness from screw cap in the US.
It is really unfounded.
But the whole point is that with "Novatwist" caps they are installed by hand. No equipment necessary (except for a bucket full of sanitiser LOL).
My wife tells everyone putting the caps on is her job, so it really isn't that hard. (maybe that's why I like them so much)


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## cpfan (Jan 8, 2014)

WellingtonToad said:


> The bad news for you is I am in Australia. Down south near Melbourne. I would suggest talking to your supplier to import some.


 
Thanks for the response. I would appreciate it if you put Australia (or more) in your Location field (go to the Control Panel).

Here in Canada, talking to my supplier (the little store down the street) does little good. Most only carry what there favourite wholesaler carries, and over the years some wholesaler have reduced their stock list. Even when I shop at the wholesaler's retail store, the store clerk seems not interested in new product. Of course, it doesn't help that this particular wholesaler doesn't have a very large list of products.

Steve


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## CNMDesign (Jan 8, 2014)

We will be using synthetic corks for their reuse ability. The wine will be for medicinal purposes only. Can’t see any of it hanging around long enough to warrant the trouble of corking if you know what I mean.


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## mikewatkins727 (Jan 8, 2014)

There is no retail store nearby where I live unless I drive half an hour or more; so I order my equipment & supplies online. The following web site due carry screw caps:

http://labelpeelers.com
http://home-brewing.northernbrewer.com
http://midwestsupplies.com
http://www.winemakersdepot.com
http://www.homebrewohio.com

Whether you use corks, screw caps or crowns (beer bottle caps) matters not. Most of our wines will not suffer for the time they are around.

Don't install corks in a screw cap bottle.


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## mikewatkins727 (Jan 8, 2014)

There is no retail store nearby where I live unless I drive half an hour or more; so I order my equipment & supplies online. The following web sites do carry screw caps:

http://labelpeelers.com
http://home-brewing.northernbrewer.com
http://midwestsupplies.com
http://www.winemakersdepot.com
http://www.homebrewohio.com

Whether you use corks, screw caps or crowns (beer bottle caps) matters not. Most of our wines will not suffer for the time they are around.

Don't install corks in a screw cap bottle.


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## cpfan (Jan 8, 2014)

CNMDesign said:


> We will be using synthetic corks for their reuse ability.


They aren't re-usable if you use a corkscrew to get them out.

I guess a better question is...how are you planning to get them out so that they can be re-used?

Steve


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## rakundig (Jan 8, 2014)

JohnT said:


> WT,
> 
> I think that it is two factors at play here. In the us, screwcaps only came on cheap inexpensive domestic wine.



Actually, that isn't entirely true. There are good many Argentinian wines and Aussie wines with screw caps these days. Even my local grocery store has some in selection. It is true that they are "looked down upon" and even I found myself succumb to a bit of cork snobbery at first. However, I have come to accept and really like the screw cap. There are a couple good malbecs that I get with screw caps and they are highly convenient. I do still feel that uncorking is a bit more "authentic" but I have never had any issues with a screw cap wine so far. As a matter of fact, my daily drinker is a malbec called Tilia from Mendoza Argentina. It is a great little wine and sub $10 US so it is excellent for a glass here or there. All screw caps.

As a matter of fact, I am keeping these bottles because they have screw caps. My plan is that I will make about 5 screw cap bottles out of the 30 (since I only saved 5) and that way I can easily "uncork" it to taste or test at a later date while the rest age with their traditional corks. Probably open one a month to see how it is going.


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## WellingtonToad (Jan 9, 2014)

Thanks Mike for your try, but I was thinking more along the lines of this:

http://vintnersglobal.com/closures/screw-caps.html

This is the Novatwist from a US supplier. He even prints them, an option I don't have.


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## JohnT (Jan 9, 2014)

CNMDesign said:


> We will be using synthetic corks for their reuse ability. The wine will be for medicinal purposes only. Can’t see any of it hanging around long enough to warrant the trouble of corking if you know what I mean.


 I am not sure if reusing any closure is such a good idea.


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## JohnT (Jan 9, 2014)

rakundig said:


> Actually, that isn't entirely true. There are good many Argentinian wines and Aussie wines with screw caps these days. Even my local grocery store has some in selection. It is true that they are "looked down upon" and even I found myself succumb to a bit of cork snobbery at first. However, I have come to accept and really like the screw cap. There are a couple good malbecs that I get with screw caps and they are highly convenient. I do still feel that uncorking is a bit more "authentic" but I have never had any issues with a screw cap wine so far. As a matter of fact, my daily drinker is a malbec called Tilia from Mendoza Argentina. It is a great little wine and sub $10 US so it is excellent for a glass here or there. All screw caps.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I am keeping these bottles because they have screw caps. My plan is that I will make about 5 screw cap bottles out of the 30 (since I only saved 5) and that way I can easily "uncork" it to taste or test at a later date while the rest age with their traditional corks. Probably open one a month to see how it is going.


 
We are in full agreement here. I am not a hater of screw caps. 

All I was saying was that, in this country, about 30 to 40 years ago, only the cheapest domestic wines came with screw caps. Today, this public perception still exists. I have to admit that there was a time that I wondered "if this wine is so good, then why couldn't the winery take the time and expense of a closing with a real cork?".

The us market happily worked this way for decades, then came TCA (cork taint)... 

Wineries, looking for a way to protect their inventory (and profits) from cork taint started to explore alternate closures. Some wineries chose synthetic corks, but these have their own problems and (for many) was not a viable replacement for the real thing. Other wineries went with screw caps (especially in Australia/Argentina where corks were already very expensive due to shipping costs and their domestic wine industries were just gearing up). 

In short, for areas like Australia and Argentina, the choice to go with screw caps was not solely due to cost saving measures. It was mostly motivated by the need to protect their quality wines against cork taint. *So, today, one should never judge a wine by its screw cap*. 

Still, in the US, the public perception persists. 

My choice in closure is natural corks that are certified as TCA free. This is because natural cork will age a wine as opposed to screw caps. I also do this more out of the European tradition that I was raised with. 

Finally, I use corks for the romance. Let me paint a picture....

You have a fire going. You tied the kids up and threw them into the trunk of your car (just for a while), you put on some smooth jazz, put out a platter of fine cheeses and smokey meats, and you have your best gal with you (who stares at you in awe while thinking "I never knew he could be so romantic, he may very well get lucky tonight). 

Then you go to open the wine.. Lets explore two possible options here..

*Option A*: A POP from a natural cork announces "something good this way comes". You pour two glasses and within 2 sips the fireworks are going off...

*Option B: *A crackle of a screw cap and she thinks.. "Why that cheap bastard!" She backs off, the smooth jazz station goes to a commercial about anal warts, the kids escape from the trunk and are demanding dinner, and your gal starts to cry and goes to live with her mother. All because you opted for a screw cap. 

(I sure hope the above did not offend anybody)


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## richmke (Jan 9, 2014)

From what I have read, do not use commercial wine bottles with screw tops. Apparently they have a different screw, and requires commercial equipment to get the necessary seal. They also have a thinner glass neck than cork bottles, so don't use them for corking, or the cork may break the bottle.

LHBS screw top bottles are fine.

After researching, it all of a sudden occurred to me that I have been using reusable screw top bottles and caps from a Mr Beer kit for my beer batches. If they can keep the pressure in, they can keep air out.


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## Thig (Jan 9, 2014)

Apparently some from down south are switching back to corks.

http://www.winespectator.com/blogs/show/id/49437


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Jan 9, 2014)

We stock both cork and screw top bottles. We also have a number of different screw top caps, the plastic ones like on a soda bottle, the metal ones with the cardboard disc in the top ( not recomended for any long term use) and all plastic with a soft plastic dome on the inside. http://brewandwinesupply.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_31&product_id=1465
You can find more on the website under "Bottling equipment" then "caps, corks, closures, and capsules"


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## CNMDesign (Jan 9, 2014)

cpfan said:


> They aren't re-usable if you use a corkscrew to get them out.
> 
> I guess a better question is...how are you planning to get them out so that they can be re-used?
> 
> Steve



 Like I said, we are new at this. I had no idea till now they were not re usable. I figured by their design (the part that stuck out above the top of the bottle) you pushed them in and pulled them out by hand.

This misunderstanding should validate our need to be a member of this forum.

Is this cork for use after you open the wine?

http://www.mainbrew.com/Plastic-T-Cork-Reusable-Stopper-Prodview.html 

Thanks for setting this straight. 

CNM


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## rakundig (Jan 9, 2014)

JohnT said:


> We are in full agreement here. I am not a hater of screw caps.
> 
> All I was saying was that, in this country, about 30 to 40 years ago, only the cheapest domestic wines came with screw caps. Today, this public perception still exists.



Ah yes, the days of Boons Farm and Wine Coolers.



> Finally, I use corks for the romance. Let me paint a picture....
> 
> You have a fire going. You tied the kids up and threw them into the trunk of your car (just for a while), you put on some smooth jazz, put out a platter of fine cheeses and smokey meats, and you have your best gal with you (who stares at you in awe while thinking "I never knew he could be so romantic, he may very well get lucky tonight).
> 
> ...



It is true, the crackle sound isn't the same for sure. Tradition, TVs and Movies have helped romanticize that cork popping sound. We are so easily conditioned 

I do prefer a cork because of that kind of nostalgic feeling you get when opening wine with a cork in it. But those screw tops sure would have come in handy a few times here or there when I had to improvise a corkscrew (meaning I pushed the cork into the bottle) 

yes, I did that, *gasp*


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## rakundig (Jan 9, 2014)

richmke said:


> From what I have read, do not use commercial wine bottles with screw tops. Apparently they have a different screw, and requires commercial equipment to get the necessary seal. They also have a thinner glass neck than cork bottles, so don't use them for corking, or the cork may break the bottle.
> 
> LHBS screw top bottles are fine.
> 
> After researching, it all of a sudden occurred to me that I have been using reusable screw top bottles and caps from a Mr Beer kit for my beer batches. If they can keep the pressure in, they can keep air out.



meaning i cannot reuse my Tilia bottles and the screw tops that came with them? Obviously they won't be attached to the metal on the neck any longer but that part is just to keep them from unscrewing on their own and as tamper evidence. If I tighten them down they should be ok yeah? Don't see why not. I suppose eventually they will lose their seal from overuse; at that point I guess I have to throw that bottle away and go buy (and drink) another Tilia. Dilemmas Dilemmas


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## cpfan (Jan 9, 2014)

CNMDesign said:


> Like I said, we are new at this. I had no idea till now they were not re usable. I figured by their design (the part that stuck out above the top of the bottle) you pushed them in and pulled them out by hand.
> 
> CNM


 
OK you are not talking about normal corks. You are talking about what is usually called tasting corks. Normal corks and tasting corks both come in real cork and synthetic cork versions.

If you will be consuming the wine quickly (as mentioned in your first post), tasting corks will be fine, and can be re-used, although I think not indefinitely.

Be careful what you buy (especially if buying a lot). Back in 2006 and 2007 there were some tasting corks (in Canada at least) that just sat in the bottle without providing a seal. Kinda useless, if you ask me. At the time I was running a store, and put some on an order from one of our suppliers. The order desk called to make sure I wanted T-corks that didn't seal. I was very happy that I had a good relationship with that supplier.

Steve


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## cpfan (Jan 9, 2014)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> We stock both cork and screw top bottles. We also have a number of different screw top caps, the plastic ones like on a soda bottle, the metal ones with the cardboard disc in the top ( not recomended for any long term use) and all plastic with a soft plastic dome on the inside. http://brewandwinesupply.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_31&product_id=1465
> You can find more on the website under "Bottling equipment" then "caps, corks, closures, and capsules"


Doug:

Please let us know if/when you start carrying caps that will fit Stelcap bottles. (At least that is what it appears that these Novatwist closures fit.)

Steve


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## CNMDesign (Jan 9, 2014)

cpfan said:


> OK you are not talking about normal corks. You are talking about what is usually called tasting corks. Normal corks and tasting corks both come in real cork and synthetic cork versions.
> 
> If you will be consuming the wine quickly (as mentioned in your first post), tasting corks will be fine, and can be re-used, although I think not indefinitely.
> 
> ...



Thanks. We will go with the T-corks.


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## Deezil (Jan 9, 2014)

Just to piggyback on what Steve was saying..

T-Corks are fine if you'll be drinking whatever-it-is (alot of these corks are found on liquor bottles, because they dont worry so much about oxidation) relatively soon.

But I really wouldn't use them if you're storing wine for over a period of 2-3 months. You'd really want some type of permanent enclosure - whether its real or synthetic cork.. Something. 

Those T-Corks will make you cry if you bottle your whole batch with them and dont get to the last ones for a few years. Big ol' alligator tears, I promise.


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## richmke (Jan 10, 2014)

rakundig said:


> meaning i cannot reuse my Tilia bottles and the screw tops that came with them?



From what I have read, I would not. Maybe for short-term. Definitely not for long-term.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Jan 10, 2014)

cpfan said:


> Doug:
> 
> Please let us know if/when you start carrying caps that will fit Stelcap bottles. (At least that is what it appears that these Novatwist closures fit.)
> 
> Steve



I'll see what I can find.


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## CNMDesign (Jan 12, 2014)

Deezil said:


> Just to piggyback on what Steve was saying..
> 
> T-Corks are fine if you'll be drinking whatever-it-is (alot of these corks are found on liquor bottles, because they dont worry so much about oxidation) relatively soon.
> 
> ...



Ok. We will go with the screw caps, just in case a bottle should last longer than 30 or 40 days, or did not get finished on the first go around.


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