# Need to lower pH in red wine.



## StevenD55 (Jan 2, 2016)

I have several batches of wine predominantly from Valiant grapes (known for low acid and difficult for me to read TA results due to very dark color). All of the batches appear to need a lowering of the pH and all have gone through primary fermentation, unfortunately. Right now one batch is in excess of 4.2 according to my meter and granted calibration may be an issue since I'm new to using it. Regardless, the wine does taste a little flat and a bit sweet. So, I'm thinking that even if the calibration is off, it still indicates a potential problem. 

So, I'm wondering what best type of acid might be to add, malic, tartaric or citric and what pitfalls might be awaiting me. 

Thanks.


----------



## Tovis (Jan 2, 2016)

Would a blend be best? What percentage alcohol is it?


----------



## StevenD55 (Jan 2, 2016)

I'm open to suggestions. ABV is about 10 to 11%. All started at about 20 to 21 Brix and are at .990 to .992 now.


----------



## sour_grapes (Jan 3, 2016)

I am no expert, but I see no reason to deviate from the consensus opinion that tartaric acid is the only one you should add.


----------



## salcoco (Jan 3, 2016)

add tartaric acid. make a 10% solution by dissolving 10 grams tartaric acid in 100ml of water. use a 100ml sample of wine, more than one. add one ml of solution to one, 2 ml to next increase by one ml each sample do taste test. each ml equals one gram/liter of acid to be added to in finished wine. use taste bud not measurement of ph, numbers are fine but taste buds are the best to determine best wine sample.


----------



## StevenD55 (Jan 3, 2016)

Thanks all

Salcoco

Can you explain why tartaric acid is preferred?


----------



## ibglowin (Jan 3, 2016)

Its the most abundant and stable acid found in wine made from grapes.


----------



## StevenD55 (Jan 3, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> Its the most abundant and stable acid found in wine made from grapes.



Ok Thanks.


----------



## sdelli (Jan 3, 2016)

Yes.... Add tartaric acid and test again in a week... Although making a 10% solution is probably best. Through years of my comfort level I add 20 grams to a carboy at a time. It might take two or three times to get it where you want it though.


----------



## JohnT (Jan 4, 2016)

StevenD55 said:


> ... and difficult for me to read TA results due to very dark color).


 
I also advise using tartaric acid. 

Also, you can always "cut" your sample by adding an equal amount of distilled water to your sample. For example, if you add 3cc of wine to 3cc distilled water, and continue to testing as if you had a 3cc sample, you will find that it is easier to see the color change.


----------



## ibglowin (Jan 4, 2016)

Steve are you not using your pH meter to test for TA?


----------



## StevenD55 (Jan 4, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> Steve are you not using your pH meter to test for TA?



Mike,

I just got the meter after tasting the wine and wondering why it was so flat. I was using the titrate test to check for total TA back when getting ready to ferment. 



JohnT said:


> I also advise using tartaric acid.
> 
> Also, you can always "cut" your sample by adding an equal amount of distilled water to your sample. For example, if you add 3cc of wine to 3cc distilled water, and continue to testing as if you had a 3cc sample, you will find that it is easier to see the color change.



John, 

Good advice. This stuff can be pretty dark though. Even with just a bit of juice during clean up it can be difficult to see through. I think some recommend reducing skin contact, but I don't know how much it will help.


----------



## ibglowin (Jan 4, 2016)

But if your using your pH meter to do TA you don't need to use or see any color change. The meter tells you when you are at the endpoint of the titration.


----------



## StevenD55 (Jan 4, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> But if your using your pH meter to do TA you don't need to use or see any color change. The meter tells you when you are at the endpoint of the titration.



Going forward, that is what I hope to do. Is there a way to calibrate those things in a pinch without having to get the packages?


----------



## ibglowin (Jan 4, 2016)

No, you need to get at least a packet of 4.01 and 7.0 Buffer solutions in order to calibrate the meter. Usually some comes with the meter.


----------



## StevenD55 (Jan 4, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> No, you need to get at least a packet of 4.01 and 7.0 Buffer solutions in order to calibrate the meter. Usually some comes with the meter.



OK. I did calibrate it with the 2 packets I rec'd with the kit. But the directions say that if you don't use it or use it a lot to recalibrate. SO, I will need to order more. I was hoping there was a way around it. 

Thanks.


----------



## ibglowin (Jan 4, 2016)

You can reuse them, as long as they are kept sealed in a plastic container (or glass) in the fridge. Rinse the electrode with distilled water after each use.


----------



## StevenD55 (Jan 4, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> You can reuse them, as long as they are kept sealed in a plastic container (or glass) in the fridge. Rinse the electrode with distilled water after each use.



Oops.....next time.


----------



## Tnuscan (Feb 27, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> But if your using your pH meter to do TA you don't need to use or see any color change. The meter tells you when you are at the endpoint of the titration.



Would you care to explain this for me or suggest where I might find more info. 
I use both meter and kit to record. Or am I understanding that when your at a certain pH your automatically at the correct measure in TA? Thanks!


----------



## GreginND (Feb 27, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> Would you care to explain this for me or suggest where I might find more info.
> I use both meter and kit to record. Or am I understanding that when your at a certain pH your automatically at the correct measure in TA? Thanks!



The endpoint of the phenolthalein colorant used in the titration kits is at a pH of 8.2. Instead of using the color indicator, just titrate your sample until the pH reaches 8.2.


----------



## Tnuscan (Feb 27, 2016)

GreginND said:


> The endpoint of the phenolthalein colorant used in the titration kits is at a pH of 8.2. Instead of using the color indicator, just titrate your sample until the pH reaches 8.2.



I understand now, thank you!


----------



## alexi82 (Feb 29, 2016)

tartaric only. 1g/L to gain 0.1 pH drop.


----------



## GreginND (Mar 1, 2016)

alexi82 said:


> tartaric only. 1g/L to gain 0.1 pH drop.



There is not a linear dependence of pH and amount of tartaric. And it is complicated by different buffers present in wine. Thus, one cannot predict a pH drop based on acid addition. You can only relate amount to TA.


----------



## alexi82 (Mar 1, 2016)

Correct. My apologies. But for home wine making its a fair estimate....


----------



## GreginND (Mar 1, 2016)

How does being at home make the pH dependance any more linear?

Adding 1 g/L will drop the TA by 0.1%. It says nothing about the pH and there is nothing you can infer about pH.


----------



## alexi82 (Mar 2, 2016)

I didn't say it did. I said it's a fair estimate. In my experience it almost always drops ph by that amount. Large ph drops may require slightly more depending on buffering capacity. But as a guide for home wine making in general it works.


----------

