# New Wine Room



## Johnd

I've started this thread to chronicle the construction of my new wine room. As I live in the Deep South, this will be an above ground room with temperature and humidity control. You can see from the photo, this is a currently an outdoor area surrounded by my home on three sides. I installed a slab there several years ago, which slopes to a drain in the center. The space is 12' x 14'. 

The current plan includes:
One 14' wall of bottle racking and one 12' wall of bottle racking, 6' high with 15" x 15" diamonds above. 
One 14' wall (door is on this wall) with base and wall cabinets to store all of my winemaking equipment and supplies, deep stainless sink for cleaning, washing, etc. 
Last 12' wall will have vertical racking for carboy and barrel storage, with 15" bottle storage diamonds above. 
Stone floors, oak walls and ceilings, stone countertops. All oak wood racking, cabinets, and storage. 
I'll be using a split, ducted, refrigeration system with humidity controls.
With building permit in hand, tomorrow it kicks off with a 6" x6" curb to install the fourth wall on top of. All the walls will be 6" with closed cell sprayed foam insulation. 
Here we go!


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## Tnuscan

I'm excited for you, hope everything falls perfectly into place. Cheers!!!


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## bkisel

Very ambitious. I wish you the best. 

I'm guessing you're not concerned about the cost but how long do you figure you'll break even - i.e. what you save on home making wine equals the cost of the new wine room?


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## Runningwolf

Anxious to follow your journey!


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## Natrix

That's a great project !
Will follow it.


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## Johnd

bkisel said:


> Very ambitious. I wish you the best.
> 
> I'm guessing you're not concerned about the cost but how long do you figure you'll break even - i.e. what you save on home making wine equals the cost of the new wine room?



Quite contrary, cost is important, but it's worthless if done incorrectly. 
Firstly, this will add square footage to my home, the value of the addition is about $25,000, at $150/sf. I hope not to spend any more than that. 
Second, I also buy and collect some commercial wines, an investment which needs proper protection. 
Third, and most importantly, I can't continue to store my wine in my home, for space reasons as well as storage temperatures. 
So I look at the room as break even in terms of the value of my home, the rest is lagniappe!!!


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## ibglowin

Looking forward to following your progress!


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## Mismost

Which direction will your roof slope? Looks like it will be pretty flat unless you slope it back to the left...hard to tell from the picture. Sorry, I'm just a big fan of moving water off a roof as quickly as possible to avoid leaks. Interesting project, just not much height to work with.


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## Johnd

Mismost said:


> Which direction will your roof slope? Looks like it will be pretty flat unless you slope it back to the left...hard to tell from the picture. Sorry, I'm just a big fan of moving water off a roof as quickly as possible to avoid leaks. Interesting project, just not much height to work with.



New roof high point will be as high up on the gable as possible, sloping down towards where the picture was taken from, roof slope will be 4:12, good water mover.


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## Johnd

New 5-1/2" x 5-1/2" curb formed and poured this morning by a couple of my carpenters. The fourth wall of the Wine Room will sit atop this curb. 

Notice the 5/8" anchor bolts protruding from the top of the curb, these bolts will be used to anchor the exterior wall to the curb and slab, a requirement of the Building Code down here in the hurricane south. 3/8" bolts used to be the standard, upped to 5/8" after Katrina. Hurricane strapping will also be attached to these bolts, up the studs, over the double top plate, and attached to the roof rafters.

From here it gets slower, as I wait for the framer to finish up a job he's working on elsewhere.


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## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> From here it gets slower, as I wait for the framer to finish up a job he's working on elsewhere.



You can clean out that gutter while you wait. Looks like it needs it.


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> You can clean out that gutter while you wait. Looks like it needs it.



Cute, Jim. Actually, my gutters all have screens on them, so what you are seeing is pine needles caught up in the screen, I can assure you that the gutters are clean as a whistle inside. Can't let leaves and needles get in there and back up with the quantity of rain we get.


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## TexasWino

Cool project! Sounds like you did your research. What brand cooling system did you go with?


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## Johnd

TexasWino said:


> Cool project! Sounds like you did your research. What brand cooling system did you go with?



Haven't pulled the trigger yet, but leaning toward the WineZone system it offers what I'm looking for, outside condenser unit, attic air handler unit, ducted supply and return with humidity control. All you'll see in the room is a supply and a return grill mounted in the ceiling. Quietest, most efficient, and longest service life of all the systems. Easy for HVAC technicians to work on, but also requires the largest investment. Brand may change, but I'm pretty set on the system arrangements and components.


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## ceeaton

John, curiosity is getting the better of me. Will the large window remain to show off the room to the main house or am I jumping the gun a bit?


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## Johnd

ceeaton said:


> John, curiosity is getting the better of me. Will the large window remain to show off the room to the main house or am I jumping the gun a bit?



Craig:

The current plan is to remove that double window and close it up. That wall ends up being the wall where I have two high storage for carboys and barrels with storage diamonds on top. From the house side, that's the kitchen, we'll be rocking the hole and adding a couple more wall cabinets for storage. I must admit that we've talked about leaving the window, but since the room will be dark most of the time, it doesn't seem to be the best use. Additionally, the heat / cold gain and loss through the windows is greater than that of a wall. Ultimately, there will be one door in/out of the room, and no one will be able to spy on me while I'm in there!


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## TexasWino

Johnd said:


> Haven't pulled the trigger yet, but leaning toward the WineZone system it offers what I'm looking for, outside condenser unit, attic air handler unit, ducted supply and return with humidity control. All you'll see in the room is a supply and a return grill mounted in the ceiling. Quietest, most efficient, and longest service life of all the systems. Easy for HVAC technicians to work on, but also requires the largest investment. Brand may change, but I'm pretty set on the system arrangements and components.



Perhaps you have already explored this option but if you have enough room in your attic you can save some money by going with just a ducted unit from Wine Guardian. http://wineguardian.com/wine-cellar-cooling-units/ducted/ Or CellarPro http://www.cellarprocoolingsystems.com/purchase-wine-cooling-unit. 
With CellarPro you have to get the add on ducting to make it work. 

We try to stay away from splits as much as possible as they cost more upfront and install is much more difficult.


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## Johnd

TexasWino said:


> Perhaps you have already explored this option but if you have enough room in your attic you can save some money by going with just a ducted unit from Wine Guardian. http://wineguardian.com/wine-cellar-cooling-units/ducted/ Or CellarPro http://www.cellarprocoolingsystems.com/purchase-wine-cooling-unit.
> With CellarPro you have to get the add on ducting to make it work.
> 
> We try to stay away from splits as much as possible as they cost more upfront and install is much more difficult.



I have looked at them, these are the systems that have the AHU and Condenser all in one unit in the attic. Where I live (Deep South), my attic temps get up into the low 100's (even with spray foam at underside of roof) during the summer. These type units, with their condensers located in the hot attic, can't get the temperature differential needed to adequately cool in these conditions, plus they add heat to the attic space, exacerbating the problem. The split system, with the condenser located outside, fares much better with the condenser located in 95 degree outside air temps with unlimited exhaust space.

You are correct, though, the install is more complicated and costly, but as a commercial general contractor, I can get it installed at very low cost.


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## Floandgary

Johnd said:


> Craig:
> 
> The current plan is to remove that double window and close it up. That wall ends up being the wall where I have two high storage for carboys and barrels with storage diamonds on top. From the house side, that's the kitchen, we'll be rocking the hole and adding a couple more wall cabinets for storage. I must admit that we've talked about leaving the window, but since the room will be dark most of the time, it doesn't seem to be the best use. Additionally, the heat / cold gain and loss through the windows is greater than that of a wall. Ultimately, there will be one door in/out of the room, and no one will be able to spy on me while I'm in there!



Should be one-way the other way!! Also how about a pass-through (bottle size) to the kitchen


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## bkisel

Floandgary said:


> Should be one-way the other way!! Also how about a pass-through (bottle size) to the kitchen



How about a beverage cooler that opens to both the wine room and kitchen?


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## Mismost

bkisel said:


> How about a beverage cooler that opens to both the wine room and kitchen?



I know you! You're the guy that likes spending other people's money!!


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## Johnd

bkisel said:


> How about a beverage cooler that opens to both the wine room and kitchen?



Should be one-way the other way!! Also how about a pass-through (bottle size) to the kitchen

Both very interesting ideas, still leaning to the 8' high full wall of carboy, barrel and bottle storage, that functionality is very badly needed. A small door which opens to the kitchen with a shelf for a few bottles might be cool and take up just a little space. 

All in all, sufficient bottle, bulk carboy and barrel storage at 55 - 60 degrees is my number one priority. Number two is being able to do all of my winemaking functions (racking, cleaning, etc.) and store all of my equipment in there. Those two priorities gobble up my 4 walls. Added benefit is ability to ferment at lower temps for whites if desired, but will still ferment reds in the house at room temps.

I did mention at dinner last night perhaps having a recliner and TV in there, which drew a questionable scowl from my mate, I'll have to approach that a bit more diplomatically....................


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## ceeaton

Johnd said:


> I did mention at dinner last night perhaps having a recliner and TV in there, which drew a questionable scowl from my mate, I'll have to approach that a bit more diplomatically....................



I know you have the talent, just make a fold out recliner from the wall (like the old fold out beds), that when not in use looks like a bare wall. That would be worth part of the space, you could still have shelves higher up. But the empty wall might be a dead giveaway and she'd find it.

I hid some wine once and she found it within a day or two. I think she has surveillance cameras hidden down here in the basement. Those better halves are sometimes better than we give them credit.


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## sour_grapes

Johnd said:


> I did mention at dinner last night perhaps having a recliner and TV in there





ceeaton said:


> Those better halves are sometimes better than we give them credit.



Well, which would you two rather have: your better quarters, or your better halves?


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## Johnd

sour_grapes said:


> Well, which would you two rather have: your better quarters, or your better halves?



Alas, not really even a close contest, the halves have it!!!


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## Arne

I did mention at dinner last night perhaps having a recliner and TV in there, which drew a questionable scowl from my mate, I'll have to approach that a bit more diplomatically....................[/QUOTE]

Well while you are at it, instead of a bottle pass thru to the kitchen, maybe a plate pass thru to the winery. Try "We have certain winemaking processes that have to be followed without interuption. This is usually quality control. So if I can get a plate full of dinner, I can keep the winemaking process going and have the best wines possible." Btw, if you try this, let us know how it works out. LOL, Arne.


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## Winenoob66

What Arne is trying is seeing if you don't need to much hospital time after asking that he might try it.


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## Johnd

Arne said:


> I did mention at dinner last night perhaps having a recliner and TV in there, which drew a questionable scowl from my mate, I'll have to approach that a bit more diplomatically....................



Well while you are at it, instead of a bottle pass thru to the kitchen, maybe a plate pass thru to the winery. Try "We have certain winemaking processes that have to be followed without interuption. This is usually quality control. So if I can get a plate full of dinner, I can keep the winemaking process going and have the best wines possible." Btw, if you try this, let us know how it works out. LOL, Arne.[/QUOTE]

LOL, surely Arne, you don't take me for fool!! Not to mention, Mrs. JohnD is also an accomplished attorney. There are many endeavors I'm willing to undertake, but I'm quite certain the counselor would see straight through such a charade. I suspect, because of the vast wine selection that I maintain as a result of this "hobby", that she may let it pass, but I don't really want to eat dinner alone in the cold. I'd end up sleeping alone in the cold too!!


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## Arne

LOL, surely Arne, you don't take me for fool!! Not to mention, Mrs. JohnD is also an accomplished attorney. There are many endeavors I'm willing to undertake, but I'm quite certain the counselor would see straight through such a charade. I suspect, because of the vast wine selection that I maintain as a result of this "hobby", that she may let it pass, but I don't really want to eat dinner alone in the cold. I'd end up sleeping alone in the cold too!![/QUOTE]

Oh well, she would probably want to keep all your wine, too. Gotta love all of our SWMBO's that put up with our winemaking and some of the other stuff we pull. Mine must have the patience of a saint. Been putting up with this stuff for close to 50 years. Good luck with your wineroom. Arne.


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## ceeaton

Johnd said:


> Mrs. JohnD is also an accomplished attorney.



Now John, an attorney? Why are you working on anything but wine? If my wife will soon support me as a nurse, an attorney should be overkill!

Edit: now that I though this through for 10 seconds, make sure you duck when you tell her and that there isn't any glass right behind you.


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## Johnd

Although it hasn't been that long, it feels like it. Finally have a clear weather window and the construction begins in earnest tomorrow. Should be able to get the room framed, blacked in, and roofed by the weekend. Framers start tomorrow at 7 AM!


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## Johnd

As of 9 AM, these guys are kicking butt and look to be finished this afternoon or tomorrow morning.


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## Johnd

Not bad for a day's work, roof goes on tomorrow.


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## Johnd

Inside from the door.


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## Runningwolf

Very cool! Why the tarpaper when you're using Tyvek?


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## Johnd

Runningwolf said:


> Very cool! Why the tarpaper when you're using Tyvek?



Tyvek is what was behind the last of the vinyl siding on my house, that's now the inside of the room. 15# felt on the new exterior wall is in preparation for 3/4" cement plaster on the wall. The felt sheds water but isn't vapor proof. I'm using closed cell spray foam in all of the wine room walls, that's my vapor barrier and protection against condensation and vapor transmission.


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## Johnd

Plumbing for the new work sink in the cellar was roughed in last week. Refrigeration equipment arrived today, time to get moving a bit. Tuesday will be the day that the cellar refrigeration unit gets set in the attic and supply / return air ductwork gets roughed in. We'll also be setting a new 2 ton a/c unit in the attic to handle the playroom on top of the garage. We'll also be stubbing out the copper refrigeration lines to the condenser area. 

Wednesday we will pour a new concrete equipment pad which the new chiller condenser, the new a/c condenser, and an existing a/c condenser will sit on. 

Thursday, all of the new condensers will be piped in. 

Following week, electrical service to all of the new equipment and roughin of electrical devices and lighting in the cellar itself, then she'll be ready for spray foam.


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## Johnd

New condenser pad poured Wednesday, condensers all in place, left one is my downstairs unit, right is the new on for upstairs, the on in the middle is the condenser for the refrigeration system. All copper and control wiring in place and ready for power, electrical work on Tuesday. The old vinyl siding is gone, everything gets 3/4" cement plaster. You can see the felt on the addition through the fence on the right, all this equipment is behind the fence.


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## Johnd

Inside the Wine Room, above the ceiling, supply air ducted in and split to two diffusers. We decided to split the supply to reduce air flow noise through the diffusers and for more even distribution.


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## Johnd

We've selected this slate for the flooring (2 square pieces). The 18"x18" pieces will be halved and laid in a herringbone pattern. 

The second photo depicts the wall stone which will be on the wall above my work top / sink area up to the underside of the wall cabinets. It'll also go on the wall above the display counter.

My millwork guy should be finished his shop drawings pretty shortly, I'll post them when he's done.


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## Treeman

Johnd said:


> Inside the Wine Room, above the ceiling, supply air ducted in and split to two diffusers. We decided to split the supply to reduce air flow noise through the diffusers and for more even distribution.




Looking good, but how will you insulate around your cold air supply? I would think you are going to get alot of moisture condensing on those if they are exposed in the ceiling space.


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## Johnd

Treeman said:


> Looking good, but how will you insulate around your cold air supply? I would think you are going to get alot of moisture condensing on those if they are exposed in the ceiling space.



Once the joints in the ductwork and diffuser boxes have been sealed, they will be insulated with 4" jacketed insulation. Of course, the return air ductwork and the air handling unit itself will be treated in the same fashion. Both the ceiling joist space and underside of the roof deck (walls too) will be filled with closed cell spray foam insulation. 

You're right, without the insulation, it would be a colossal condensation catastrophe.


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## Treeman

Sounds good. Figured you were on these details because any exposed cold spot could create a mini river up there.


Sent from my iPod touch using Wine Making


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## winojoe

John, looks very cool!

I have a question about the floor drain: 
Is that a storm drain? ...or a sewer drain?

If it is a storm drain, I would think the building inspector would have a problem with it being inside the dwelling where chemicals (such as floor detergent) can be disposed.


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## Johnd

winojoe said:


> John, looks very cool!
> 
> I have a questions about the floor drain:
> Is that a storm drain? ...or a sewer drain?
> 
> If it is a storm drain, I would think the building inspector would have a problem with it being inside the dwelling where chemicals (such as floor detergent) can be disposed.



It is a storm drain. The area I enclosed was previously and outdoors area and the slab was sloped to drain to it, my old crawfish boiling area. It exists only as an emergency drain now, in the case of a carboy drop or wine spill, and it has a built in sediment trap. No chemicals will be going down there, floors will be mopped just like in your home. The building inspector was out when I started the project, no issues. The plumbing inspector has been out to approve the sink rough in, he had no issues either, so I doubt I'll have a problem with it.............


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## syncnite

Following.


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## bein_bein

.... not near enough pictures in this here how-to thread..  lol


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## Johnd

bein_bein said:


> .... not near enough pictures in this here how-to thread..  lol



Well........ I guess it's not really a how to thread, more of a chronicling of the process, but I can certainly try to post more pics, but it's all behind the scenes stuff at the moment.

The gray box is the air handling unit for the refrigeration system, return air on the bottom, supply on top. Pricey little bugger.


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## Johnd

This is the supply air side, ductwork is now sealed and insulated, split supply. With air this temperature, it's vitally important to be completely sealed and insulated to prevent moisture and mold problems.


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## Johnd

And this is the 20"x20" return air grill, it will also house the filter for the system. Pretty exciting stuff.

Tomorrow, we run 208Vpower to all of the new equipment both in the attic and outside on the condenser pad. We'll also be installing back boxes and wiring for all service receptacles and switches. In the attic there will be a couple of power converters for the LED lighting system which need 110V, and from there we distribute 12V power to the LED light locations, undercounter in my work area, in the light cove above the display cabinet, and the main lighting in the center of the room. All lighting will be dimmable with dimming switches.


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## 4huskrs

Very Cool.
Ron


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## bein_bein

Johnd said:


> Well........ I guess it's not really a how to thread, more of a chronicling of the process, but I can certainly try to post more pics, but it's all behind the scenes stuff at the moment.....


Since I usually look at something and wonder "How did they do that..?" the behind the scenes stuff is where it all starts. I love 'watching' projects go from concept to finished with all the 'boring' stuff in between.... but then I'm weird that way lol. Looks like your getting things done right!


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## Johnd

bein_bein said:


> Since I usually look at something and wonder "How did they do that..?" the behind the scenes stuff is where it all starts. I love 'watching' projects go from concept to finished with all the 'boring' stuff in between.... but then I'm weird that way lol. Looks like your getting things done right!



I own a commercial construction company, so I guess sometimes I take that stuff for granted. Hopefully the pics will be more exciting once we get some wood in there.


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## petey_c

John, looks like a great project/investment. Just curious though, you have 120/208 not 120/240 power to your house? Usually 120/208 is associated with 3 ph. power.


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## Johnd

No, it's single phase 120/240V system, just a force of habit.


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## petey_c

John, Thanks for the reply. I wish I had more time/room/$$ to expand. The only thing expanding lately is my waistline.


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## Zintrigue

Wow! This has been a fascinating read, thank you so much for sharing. Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## Johnd

Today we pulled feeders through a previously installed underground conduit to power this new panel. The panel feeds 240 to the new a/c condenser, the refrigeration condenser, and the a/c air handling unit in the attic. The refrigeration condenser unit back feeds 120 to its air handling unit in the attic. Two 120 circuits to the wine room for lighting, receptacles, and garbage disposal.


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## BlueStimulator

Awesome description and pic's


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## Johnd

These are the nearly finalized plans for the wine room interior. First pic is the floor plan, next four are the elevations for walls 1,2,3 and 4.


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## mrramsey

Looking good John!

I am surprised that they will allow that panel to me mounted to an accessory structure (fence). Certainly wouldn't fly in my neck of the woods.

capacity around 1200?


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## Johnd

mrramsey said:


> I am surprised that they will allow that panel to me mounted to an accessory structure (fence). Certainly wouldn't fly in my neck of the woods.



When a panel is mounted outside on structures other than buildings, in addition to the other myriad requirements, it must be weatherproof and firmly attached to a substantial structure constructed of either galvanized metal, treated wood, or masonry, firmly anchored in the ground with a concrete foundation. The fence satisfies all of those requirements in terms of panel support, so there were no issues at all (other than a missing bushing, which was quickly installed).


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## Johnd

The wine room will finally be taking a big step on Thursday. All inspections are complete and passed, and all systems operational. I've only run the refrigeration for a short time to test, but it sure pumps some cold air and is barely audible. 

On Thursday, everything gets closed cell spray foam, underside of the roof, ceiling joists and walls, my refrigerated box will finally take its biggest step. All fiberglass insulation removed, piping and wiring in the walls I are secured, stub outs for LED lighting made, thermostat wire stubbed out, all receptacle and switch boxes sealed with tape. 

This weekend I'll be installing MR drywall, taping, floating, and hopefully getting the walls primed. Ambitiously, I'd love to get the first coat of paint on, but that's a stretch. 

Next week we'll start the mud bed for the slate flooring.


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## BlueStimulator

I love slate, I wished we used more in our home. It looks great and doesn't break the bank. It will look great in your wine room. I hope all goes smoothly


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## JohnT

I know that you have a load of work for this weekend, but any picture you care to post would me most appreciated! 

Good luck on everything! I look forward to seeing what progress you have made.


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## Johnd

JohnT said:


> I know that you have a load of work for this weekend, but any picture you care to post would me most appreciated!
> 
> Good luck on everything! I look forward to seeing what progress you have made.



Will do John. I know I've been a little derelict on my picture posting, there's just not been too much to see, all the mechanical / electrical / plumbing stuff is pretty scattered, outside, in the walls and in the attic, little has changed in the room itself.

It'll get a lot more fun from here on out as the final elements of the project start to take their place in the lineup.


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## syncnite

What R rating does that "closed cell spray foam" have?


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## Johnd

syncnite said:


> What R rating does that "closed cell spray foam" have?



According to the specs for the closed cell product I'm using, the tested value is R 6.5 per inch of thickness. I have one exterior and one interior wall that are 5.5" in depth, that's R 35.75, the other two walls are 3.5" in depth, and are common to my home (air conditioned on the other side), they're R 22.75. The ceiling joists are also 5.5" and the underside of my roof at 5.5", both will also be foamed. 

Pretty big difference between foam and Fiberglas batts, which weigh in at about R 3.6 per inch.


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## Johnd

Some progress photos as the room is insulated with closed cell spray foam. The underside of the roof deck is completed, you can see the foam on the joists, it's about 4 or so inches thick on the underside of the plywood. The walls are partially filled, it takes a couple of passes to build up the insulation to near full thickness of the wall cavity. Overspray gets scraped off of the face of the studs before it's completely hardened off, much easier at that point. Last action will be to staple a membrane on top of the ceiling joists so that the cavity can be sprayed from the underside. Once the first layer is dry on the membrane, the foam is completely self supporting. When the full thickness is achieved, the claim is that you can walk on it.............rest assured I won't be trying that theory on for size.

Moisture resistant drywall installation begins tomorrow morning............


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## Johnd

All foamed up and ready for rock!!


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## Boatboy24

That should stay cool!


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> That should stay cool!



That's the plan, right sized system, exceeded the minimum R values for the system, tomorrow we'll run through the startup procedure and get it going. Assuming all goes well, I'll be working in the cool environment this weekend.


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## ibglowin

I bet you end up (like me) going in the winery/cellar during the Summer to escape the heat for a few minutes!


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## JohnT

That is going to be friggin sweet when it is done!


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> I bet you end up (like me) going in the winery/cellar during the Summer to escape the heat for a few minutes!



Mike, you couldn't be any more accurate. Living where I do, you'd think I'd be tolerant of the heat and humidity, and I guess I am, but I absolutely hate it. Most of the year it's great here, but June, July and August are unbearable. I'll be spending a lot of time basking in the 55 degree temps.


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## ibglowin

LOL I spent almost five years in a "He11" also known as Houston, TX so I know exactly how you feel and I do feel for you!


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## BlueStimulator

Line it with tin foil and you will be able to have a place where aliens and government won't be able to control your mind. wow that is coming along very nicely. I live where it is hot but very little humidity (thank the lord) keep the pictures coming we all love seeing the progress. Congrats


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## Johnd

All the Rock is up, as of 10 PM. Tomorrow I'll go to work on taping and floating.


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## bkisel

"floating"? What is that? Is that what you call the process of putting the mud on and then feathering?


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## Johnd

bkisel said:


> "floating"? What is that? Is that what you call the process of putting the mud on and then feathering?



LOL, yes, that's exactly what it is. "Taping" is the application of the paper or mesh tape over the drywall joints, "floating", the application of mud over the taped joints to fill the tapered edges of th drywall, feathering out any high spots as needed. It's simple looking when you watch it being done by a pro, I am not one, but manage to get by. Fortunately, most of the walls will be covered by racking, so my marginal skills will allow me to get by.


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## Floandgary

Reading some info on "bottle shock" recently makes me ask the REAL question at hand ,,,,, Is your wine ready for the move to new digs??? That IS what this is all about isn't it? Mighty impressive and thanks for the chronology..


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## Johnd

Floandgary said:


> Reading some info on "bottle shock" recently makes me ask the REAL question at hand ,,,,, Is your wine ready for the move to new digs??? That IS what this is all about isn't it? Mighty impressive and thanks for the chronology..



I'm not really anticipating any stress on the wine, the stuff in bottles is in refrigerated cellars and will simply move from a 55 degree refrigerated case to a 55 degree room. The wines I've bottled in the last month is in cases on their side in my house, it'll go into the cellar as well, could be a little shock there.....we'll see...............


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## Johnd

Coached baseball this morning and then jumped on the drywall mud, got first step done on everything I could reach from the ground, taking a break for a while. Maybe later I'll tackle the elevated stuff.


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## petey_c

Over the years I've learned that I'm not really suited for taping/spackling (sp?). I'd rather pay someone who knows what they're doing. If I do it I always remember where I had problems, high/low spots, etc. Plus they're much faster. When I finished my son's room in the basement, it took my spackler about 45 minutes to do the first coat (20-30 boards. Inside and out.) and it looked great. Plus he had a minimal amount of sanding to do. I always looked like I was at an explosion in a flour factory after sanding. (Later I found that a damp white tee shirt (and rinsing) works really well and a lot less dust too.)


----------



## Johnd

petey_c said:


> Over the years I've learned that I'm not really suited for taping/spackling (sp?). I'd rather pay someone who knows what they're doing. If I do it I always remember where I had problems, high/low spots, etc. Plus they're much faster. When I finished my son's room in the basement, it took my spackler about 45 minutes to do the first coat (20-30 boards. Inside and out.) and it looked great. Plus he had a minimal amount of sanding to do. I always looked like I was at an explosion in a flour factory after sanding. (Later I found that a damp white tee shirt (and rinsing) works really well and a lot less dust too.)



I'm in the same boat, not the most proficient, but I get by. Didn't do too bad this weekend, 20 boards total, got everything taped and bedded on Saturday, sanded and second coat on Sunday. The tapered joints are pretty easy to do a good job, but the butt joints are harder as they have to be feathered out, that takes me a bit of time. So I didn't get to priming over the weekend, but that's OK, I'll hit some licks on it during the evenings this week.


----------



## Johnd

All of the walls are ready to be sanded and primed, still need one more coat before sanding and priming the ceiling. The floor installer asked me to hold off on priming, which worked out well since I didn't get it done over the weekend, but they got started today.

First step is setting a mud bed (very dry sand/cement/water mixture) at the proper elevation around the perimeter of the room, and then creating a slight slope in the bed to the drain in the center of the room. The slate flooring will be set on top of the mud bed. They'll finish the bed tomorrow and I'll get everything sanded and primed over the weekend, before the flooring goes in.

Picture below is the perimeter mud bed which they use to establish the elevation around the perimeter of the room.


----------



## Johnd

Mud bed finished up on Thursday, put a coat of thin set cement on it Friday to protect it, I was able to get back in there on Saturday. 

Finished up the last bit of ceiling skimming and sanding in the afternoon and cleaned the room out. This morning, sponged all of the joints and nail holes and put a coat of primer on it. Roller texture using paint is very unforgiving (compared to a spray texture), but I have to say, I did quite well, probably 10 minutes worth of knife work and priming to be ready for final painting. 

Slate flooring starts Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## 4huskrs

I am Jealous. Nice Job
Ron


----------



## Johnd

4huskrs said:


> I am Jealous. Nice Job
> Ron



Thanks Ron! Got a ways to go, but the messy stuff is over. Floors, final painting, then cabinets and wine racks, stone tops and back splashes, then moving day!


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## Zintrigue

Love the "merlot" color.


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## dcbrown73

I agree. Nice color. That's the color I usually use on my dining room.


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## Johnd

dcbrown73 said:


> I agree. Nice color. That's the color I usually use on my dining room.



Thanks, the color of the primer on the walls is the actual final wall cover. For some reason, the second can which I did the ceiling with is a different color, go figure. 

When the wife and I chose the color at the Sherwin Williams store, much to our pleasure, the official name of it was: SW 6307 Fine Wine. We figured that fate was on our side, so it was a nobrainer.


----------



## bkisel

I could have used that color on my kitchen walls the time, just a month or so ago, that I dropped a cook book into an open 6 gallon bucket of red wine.


----------



## Johny99

Great project and what looks like a very fine job. Can't wait to see the millworker. You are making me want to attack the winery again!


----------



## Johnd

We kicked off installation of the 8"x16" slate flooring this morning, looks like it's going to take a couple of days to get it installed, grouted, and sealed. The photo below is the first of four triangles which will be separated by a 2" dark grey diagonal band projecting out from the floor drain to the corners of the room.

All of the mahogany for the wine racks and cabinetry is scheduled for delivery next week, it'll be another week before I can get anything fabricated and delivered, so there will be a little down time.

Will post some more floor photos as the floor progresses.


----------



## Kraffty

Love the tile layout!
Mike


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## Johnd

Kraffty said:


> Love the tile layout!
> Mike



Thanks Mike. The layout is working pretty well, just slow in the beginning making sure all four panels tie together, lots of cuts close to the drain, but it'll get faster as the pattern radiates outward. 

The pic below is the result of a day's work. You can see one piece of the 2" wide dark slate strip that will separate the four panels.


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## Johnd

Field tile all in place and set, tomorrow morning we'll set the diagonal bands and center tile using some quick set cement and get all of the joints grouted. 

Friday it'll get cleaned and have a coat of enhancer to bring out the natural colors in the slate, followed by two coats of sealer. I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train.


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## NorCal

Awesome job John!


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## Johnd

The finished floor after being grouted and sponged off. One more sponge bath in the morning, enhancer, and two coats of clear sealer and she's done.


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## ibglowin

Bellissimo!


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## Boatboy24

Beautiful!!!


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## Tnuscan

WoW! That is a very nice floor!


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## Johny99

Amazing floor. You did a great job on the angles. That isn't an easy feet.


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## Mismost

I am so glad my wife did see that tile pattern! Very artistic.


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## Johnd

Johny99 said:


> Amazing floor. You did a great job on the angles. That isn't an easy feet.



Johnny, I'm glad you can appreciate the complexity of the design, although the end product appears as a simple design, that was the intent. I can take credit only for the design, I used a stone flooring subcontractor for the heavy lifting on the floor, I just didn't have the time to tackle that element. The installer complained a bit about the difficulty during installation, but this morning as we stood on it getting ready for the last sealer coats, he forgot about the difficulty and was quite proud of his work. He'll be leaving after sealing with four nice bottles of wine.


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## ibglowin

So here is the $64,000 question for you......

Will you be covering that beautiful tile work with lots of rubber floor mats or do you "live dangerously". Wine bottles do not bounce on tile. I have had leftover tile in my garage from when we did our whole house years ago and have been meaning to pull everything out in the Winter and do a simple diagonal pattern but I have had so many close calls with bottles slipping out of racks and hitting the floor, carboys slipping when moving and landing hard on the floor (which has Berber carpet/pad) that I have never done it. 

If I do I will be buying a big box of rubber restaurant style pads to put down in front of everything effectively covering all the tile!


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> So here is the $64,000 question for you......
> 
> Will you be covering that beautiful tile work with lots of rubber floor mats or do you "live dangerously". Wine bottles do not bounce on tile. I have had leftover tile in my garage from when we did our whole house years ago and have been meaning to pull everything out in the Winter and do a simple diagonal pattern but I have had so many close calls with bottles slipping out of racks and hitting the floor, carboys slipping when moving and landing hard on the floor (which has Berber carpet/pad) that I have never done it.
> 
> If I do I will be buying a big box of rubber restaurant style pads to put down in front of everything effectively covering all the tile!



Mike, my current area is hard tile, I've been living dangerously since starting making wine. No mats on the floor for me. If something glass hits the floor, down the drain it will go, hopefully the frogs and minnows in the drainage ditch will have a party. Sweep up the glass, mop the slate, move on to the next project..........


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## Johny99

Mine is epoxy painted concrete. No where as classy as yours John. It has cost a couple of bottles, but luckily no Carboys....has to be some wood around here. Anyway, with a floor drain, cleanup is easy - hose, oxy, and squeegee to the drain. Now a mat to ease my feet, hmmm....

We did tile our storage room. I did have a Rhone bottle of Syrah decide to slide out of a bin one night, stained the grout nicely. I guess txt sealer I used wasn't too good


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## 4huskrs

Very Nice.
Ron


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## Johnd

Well, it's been kind of a nasty week with the wine room, finishing up the plaster and soffits on the outside was kind of messy, but it'll be done shortly.

The refrigeration tech finished setting up the system today, had it humming along at about 53 degrees. I'll put an end to that when I get home, I think I'm going to keep the room around 60 during the warm months and allow it to cool to about 55 once we get into the cooler months of the year, I'm sure the electricity bill will convince me further.

All of the mahogany showed up today, so the cabinet and diamond building will get started pretty quickly. I'm hoping to get the cabinets sometime next week, along with miles of 1x2's and 1/2x1/2's so I can start building the racks. Next weekend should be a busy one, of course, as fate would have it, I'll also be finally getting my frozen Chile must..............


----------



## Johnd

Spent several hours outside around the addition yesterday cleaning up behind the plaster installation. Had to whip out the rotary hammer to drill a bunch of holes and anchor the pool controls, electrical disconnects, and downspouts to the new wall finish. Beat the rain by about 5 minutes, the outside is done. 

Inside, I spent this morning installing black electrical outlets, switches and cover plates. I also removed the white return air grill / filter and diffusers, painted them black, and reinstalled them. Finished up by installing the light fixture and dimmer controls, pretty cool fixture, purportedly made of repurposed barrel hoops. It's not terribly bright in the room at the moment, but the LED's won't go in until all of the woodwork gets installed.


----------



## Johnd

Corner display unit was set in place this evening, it's the starting point for the two walls of racking and storage diamonds above. It's not fastened in place yet, I'll probably get started this weekend.


----------



## Johnd

Once I get the corner unit set properly to receive the racking on each side, I'll start cutting and installing the racking, currently in the form of thousands of feet of 1x2's, 1x4's, and 1/2x1/2's. Can't wait to get started!


----------



## JohnT

.. And I can't wait to see more photos! looks great so far!


----------



## Johnd

Had a little free time this morning at 6 AM before baseball playoffs and yard work, cut 50 verticals and 1500 bottle supports, whipped out a few frames and set / fastened them in place. It's a meager start, but I've got the kinks worked out. Just need to put in the hours now........


----------



## AZMDTed

Nicely done, once you get the flow going you will really move out. Your room looks great.


----------



## Johnd

AZMDTed said:


> Nicely done, once you get the flow going you will really move out. Your room looks great.



Thanks, it's been fun so far. It's really nice working in there, 58 and I don't sweat a drop. All in, the individual bottle racks will require that I attach 1804 bottle supports on the 1 x 2 verticals, it's not hard work, just a lot of it. Each vertical assembly with supports has to be put together before it can be anchored in place. Trimming the racks out will be the final step there. Most all the other millwork comes in large pieces, the diamonds, cabinets, and carboy storage.


----------



## Johnd

Sunday, 7 PM. Pretty much used up the first wood delivery, although I still have lots of 1/2" x 1/2" stock for bottle supports and 1" x 4" boards left, but no more 1" x 2" verticals. So far, got enough to cellar 342 bottles. Frankly, I'm kind of glad the supply is dry, I'm ready to pop a cork.


----------



## Boatboy24

Looks awesome!


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## opus345

New to the forum, but I know a classy build when I see one.

Thanks for sharing.


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## BlueStimulator

Wow looking great


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## Johnd

Well, first mission accomplished, finished the biggest wall rack and trimmed out the corner cabinet. Time to move some wine!! And for those with a discriminating eye like mine, yes, the six racks on the right are wider to handle those bigger bottles with larger diameters. 

After that, I've got the second load of wood to cut and 22 rack frames to build for the second wall. Won't install them until all of the cabinets come in, but I'll be ready when they arrive.


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## AZMDTed

A work of art all by itself. Beautiful.


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## Johnd

And now, let the room do its work. Glad to see I have some empty slots, I have a lot of wine I've been waiting to bottle.

Time to get cranking on the last frames.


----------



## Tnuscan

Wow, I'm absolutely enjoying this project, can't wait for the upcoming posts!!!


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## NorCal

Very nicely done sir!


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## ibglowin

Looking good!


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## cmsben61

Most excellent!


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## ceeaton

I think you are my hero! Looking good, very good.


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## Johnd

Wall 2, waiting for the base cabinet, got all of the remaining racks completed, cabinet in the middle, 12 racks on each side. Just a few hours work to get all of that put together and trimmed out, then moving on to the diamond racks and crown above the wine racks on both walls.


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## opus345

So do you have any corners where rack meets rack and how do you handle it?


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## Johnd

opus345 said:


> So do you have any corners where rack meets rack and how do you handle it?



I do, and there are different ways to handle it. One way is just to have a 1' x 1' dead space where they meet, I don't like that option personally. Some corners I've seen have radiuses with the bottles radiused in, but that still wastes some space.

I have a corner display unit in place with shelving and LED lighting, you can see it just on the left edge of some of some of the photos of the completed rack. I'll post a pic of the unit itself a little later today so you can see it better.


----------



## Johnd

opus345 said:


> So do you have any corners where rack meets rack and how do you handle it?



Opus,
Here's a straight on photo of the corner cabinet, I'll be able to store bottles there, or display larger bottles and decorative items. Better than wasting the corner.


----------



## ceeaton

John,

So I'm looking at this impressive build, and I started thinking (now you know you are in for it). Are you going to hang the robotic arm to pluck those bottles out of the rack, put them in your robotic cart, which will properly chill the whites and slightly cool the reds to the recommended temperature, then deliver it to you anywhere in the house (or yard)?

You could also program it to clean your bottles for you.

On a more serious note, how is the cooling system keeping up with the heat and humidity that looks like it isn't letting up anytime soon (at least not before October or so)?


----------



## Johnd

ceeaton said:


> John,
> 
> So I'm looking at this impressive build, and I started thinking (now you know you are in for it). Are you going to hang the robotic arm to pluck those bottles out of the rack, put them in your robotic cart, which will properly chill the whites and slightly cool the reds to the recommended temperature, then deliver it to you anywhere in the house (or yard)?
> 
> You could also program it to clean your bottles for you.
> 
> On a more serious note, how is the cooling system keeping up with the heat and humidity that looks like it isn't letting up anytime soon (at least not before October or so)?



Well Craig, I was thinking of hooking all of the bottles up through a hypodermic needle / hose system and through a computer controlled dispenser system so I could pick a wine from a touch screen and have it dispensed at temperature from a tap just outside the room. But that would take all of the fun out......

Room is cooling like a charm, settled on 60 for the summer months and the humidity stays right around 70%, and runs maybe 8 hours a day. Run time is improving (getting lower) as I put more wine and woodwork in place, it helps hold the temps much like a full freezer vs an empty one. We had upper 90's for 5 days straight, it took it in stride.


----------



## Johnd

Got one cabinet box anchored in place this evening and put the racks in and trimmed them out. Will tackle the left side tomorrow unless I have to press and rack the Chileans. Should be getting the diamonds to go on top of both walls of racking on Friday. Hope to install them and get the crown up over the weekend.


----------



## Johny99

Looking good. I do love the angle of the floor into the racking.


----------



## opus345

Johnd said:


> Opus,
> Here's a straight on photo of the corner cabinet, I'll be able to store bottles there, or display larger bottles and decorative items. Better than wasting the corner.



I think the corner cabinet is one of the high end integration features that makes this build very distinctive. And who wants to look at an empty corner. Nicely done!


----------



## Johnd

opus345 said:


> I think the corner cabinet is one of the high end integration features that makes this build very distinctive. And who wants to look at an empty corner. Nicely done!



Thanks for the vote of confidence! I actually added that element in after the initial millwork shop drawings were done, it looks like it will work out pretty nicely. 

I think the cabinet on wall 2, with its stone top and stone wall is going to be pretty distinctive too. My millwork buddy who's getting all of the mahogany is playing with some ideas for the underside of the diamond racking in the area above the countertop, and I still need to figure out how to close in the open ends of the racks where they meet the countertop area.

I'm wearing a path into the floor between the wine room and the garage where I do all of my cutting. I'm thankful that I invested years ago in a DeWalt miter saw, it's been an invaluable tool.


----------



## Tnuscan

On the open ends, maybe plywood with edge banding, Raised panel or panel with mirror?


----------



## mennyg19

Im actually thinking it would look good open. How many times do you see a side open on a wine rack. Might look good. Maybe stock those and see how it looks open?


----------



## Johnd

"On the open ends, maybe plywood with edge banding, Raised panel or panel with mirror?"



mennyg19 said:


> Im actually thinking it would look good open. How many times do you see a side open on a wine rack. Might look good. Maybe stock those and see how it looks open?



All very good ideas, thank you both. I'm still up in the air, it might look really good open, being able to see the sides of the bottles. If it does get filled in, it'll just be the narrow space between the two vertical 1x2's you can see in the last pic. I'd want the filled area to be flush with the 1x2's so as not to encroach on the countertop. I could use 1x2's, 1/2 x 1/2's, a flush panel, nothing, really a lot of options. I'd like to see what it looks like when the countertop, back wall stone, and LED lighting is all in place.

It's probably going to be a game day decision once it's all done, and it won't be any harder to do later rather than sooner, but it's on my watch list for the moment.


----------



## Tnuscan

One thing to think about is a spill, over the side and down the cabinet. Have to pull bottles to clean, reaching around slats. Some attractive end splashes would be convenient to eliminate such an issue. Decisions, decisions..


----------



## Johnd

Busy evening, finished the left racking and trim, pressed and racked the Chilean Cab. Ready for bed tonite and the rest of the cabinets tomorrow. It'll be a busy weekend for sure.


----------



## Johnd

Got the first of the diamond racks yesterday. Things have been too smooth, so it was time for problems. The unit you are looking at actuall goes on top of the racks on the other wall. It was 1/4" too long and just wouldn't fit, tore up the wall a bit trying to get it to go, but it's a no go and will have to be modified. It's sitting on the other rack for the moment.


----------



## Johnd

Meanwhile, and trouble free, I mulled the base cabinets together and prepared holes for the plumbing and electrical penetrations, and screwed them in place. Did the same with the wall cabinets, they're ready for door installation as things finish up. We'll be measuring for stone tops next week.


----------



## ceeaton

Hey John,

Just curious, how many bottles do you think you'll be able to store with your racks? It is look like quite a bit of wine storage.


----------



## hounddawg

i'll be danged,
the upright 1 bys with 3/4 x 1 inch is exactly what I've been thinking about doing myself, I like to fell over when I saw your rack. 
Dawg::







Johnd said:


> Busy evening, finished the left racking and trim, pressed and racked the Chilean Cab. Ready for bed tonite and the rest of the cabinets tomorrow. It'll be a busy weekend for sure.


----------



## Johnd

ceeaton said:


> Hey John,
> 
> Just curious, how many bottles do you think you'll be able to store with your racks? It is look like quite a bit of wine storage.



936 bottles in the racks, 900 or so in the diamonds, plus 14 carboys and whatever else I put on the shelves.


----------



## Johnd

hounddawg said:


> i'll be danged,
> the upright 1 bys with 3/4 x 1 inch is exactly what I've been thinking about doing myself, I like to fell over when I saw your rack.
> Dawg::



Dawg, the verticals are 1 x 2, horizontals that the bottles sit on are 1/2" x 1/2". Spacing between frames and horizontals is critical to handle the myriad of 750 ml bottles out there without giving up too much space for the "normal" sized bottles I use. I mocked the spacing up to maximize flexibility and efficiency and would be happy to share the results if you're interested.


----------



## hounddawg

i'd be honored, 
thank you,
Dawg






Johnd said:


> Dawg, the verticals are 1 x 2, horizontals that the bottles sit on are 1/2" x 1/2". Spacing between frames and horizontals is critical to handle the myriad of 750 ml bottles out there without giving up too much space for the "normal" sized bottles I use. I mocked the spacing up to maximize flexibility and efficiency and would be happy to share the results if you're interested.


----------



## BlueStimulator

I would love them too they look REALLY COOL!!!


----------



## mennyg19

Johnd said:


> Got the first of the diamond racks yesterday. Things have been too smooth, so it was time for problems. The unit you are looking at actuall goes on top of the racks on the other wall. It was 1/4" too long and just wouldn't fit, tore up the wall a bit trying to get it to go, but it's a no go and will have to be modified. It's sitting on the other rack for the moment.




John, why don't you cut the wall of the corner display and that'll be your 1/4 of an inch. As opposed to taking apart the diamonds and having to cut the whole thing.


----------



## TXWineDuo

We would like the ladder rack dimensions too please.

TXWineDuo


----------



## Johnd

mennyg19 said:


> John, why don't you cut the wall of the corner display and that'll be your 1/4 of an inch. As opposed to taking apart the diamonds and having to cut the whole thing.



You'd see that modification, as the verticals of the corner unit remain exposed. Plus the unit's installed and tied into all of the racking, I'd destroy the room trying to get it out to work on it. Recessing the other end into the drywall was considered at the time, but I pulled that back too. In the end analysis, I'll remove the trim on the right end and take off the 3/4" plywood end panel and replace it with a 1/4" or 3/8" end panel and go from there.

It's not an easy solution either, all of these joints and trim are glued, screwed, and nailed.


----------



## AZMDTed

John, sorry to hear about that. I know what a physical and mental pain it is to make a correction like that at this stage. Best of luck.


----------



## Tnuscan

@Johnd , on the 3/4 plywood (wall end) end take your circular saw cut 3/8 deep saw kerfs 1/4 to 3/8 apart all along the length. Then take a chisel break away the area between the kerfs. You will now have a 3/8 gap at wall end to scribe that 1/4 inch off your stile/mullion your needing.


----------



## Floandgary

Johnd said:


> Meanwhile, and trouble free, I mulled the base cabinets together and prepared holes for the plumbing and electrical penetrations, and screwed them in place. Did the same with the wall cabinets, they're ready for door installation as things finish up. We'll be measuring for stone tops next week.



Dunno why I expected to see a door with a "peep-hole" instead of huge glass????  LOL


----------



## Johnd

Tnuscan said:


> @Johnd , on the 3/4 plywood (wall end) end take your circular saw cut 3/8 deep saw kerfs 1/4 to 3/8 apart all along the length. Then take a chisel break away the area between the kerfs. You will now have a 3/8 gap at wall end to scribe that 1/4 inch off your stile/mullion your needing.



Too messy in the room Dave, we'll just pop the end off and have the DNC machine cut out a new 3/8 end panel, screw it on and move forward. I don't want to be dusting and cleaning filters in the room, too much wine in there.


----------



## Johnd

Floandgary said:


> Dunno why I expected to see a door with a "peep-hole" instead of huge glass????  LOL



Definitely more appropriate, that's just the door that was there when it was my exterior door. It's insulated, so it'll work for now, but I intend to replace it once the inside gets finished. I'd like to have a really nice wine room door, they're quite pricey, but it's towards the end of the want list at the moment.


----------



## Floandgary

Gotcha!!! Just poking fun!! Your project reflects insight and thorough planning as well as genuine craftsmanship. Congratulations! Oh BTW,,,, detailed plans/blueprints are available when and where???? LOL


----------



## Johnd

Floandgary said:


> Gotcha!!! Just poking fun!! Your project reflects insight and thorough planning as well as genuine craftsmanship. Congratulations! Oh BTW,,,, detailed plans/blueprints are available when and where???? LOL



Feel free to comment!!! Your comment was also very true, the door doesn't fit the room!! Everyone's comments have challenged me and made the project better than if I was doing it in my own little bubble.

All of the elevations are in this thread a few pages back, but I'll get some detailed info on the rack and bottle holder spacing posted here pretty soon. I'm leaving in a couple of days on a cruise and trying to tie up a lot of loose ends, so if it doesn't happen before I leave, I promise to post a couple of dimensioned sketches when I return.


----------



## mennyg19

Floandgary said:


> Gotcha!!! Just poking fun!! Your project reflects insight and thorough planning as well as genuine craftsmanship. Congratulations! Oh BTW,,,, detailed plans/blueprints are available when and where???? LOL




Check out the 60th post on this thread. John posted his blueprints.


----------



## Scooter68

Whew Quite an undertaking BUT - Is this guy on this forum:http://scribol.com/a/lifestyle/dude-excavated-hole-backyard-awesome/20/

This is the ultimate "Wine Forever" Wine cellar. 
Gotta say some folks go all in for their projects.


----------



## Johnd

Better evening today than Friday, replaced the panel on the right with the new 3/8" panel and.........BINGO!!!!!


----------



## Johnd

So after that lesson, we were a little more conservative with the fit of the big diamond unit.......


----------



## Johnd

And we got the carboy storage into the room and set in place. All three new pieces need to be anchored and trimmed out, but damn they look good just being in there.


----------



## hounddawg

whew you set a high bar to say the least, that's bitching nice for lack of better words, 
Dawg 






Johnd said:


> And we got the carboy storage into the room and set in place. All three new pieces need to be anchored and trimmed out, but damn they look good just being in there.


----------



## hounddawg

does the carboy rack give you room to use a wine thief on your carboy,
Dawg





Johnd said:


> And we got the carboy storage into the room and set in place. All three new pieces need to be anchored and trimmed out, but damn they look good just being in there.


----------



## cmsben61

beautiful job!


----------



## mennyg19

Hi, im a newbie at winemaking so please excuse me if i sound clueless. I was just following this thread with alot of wishful thinking. I just have one question about wine cellars and rooms in general:
According to what I've read, wine bottles should be stored long term at a temp between 55 and 65 degrees. However, I've read that fermenting should be in the 70s. Yet I see alot of people with carboys and barrels in their wine rooms. Am I getting something wrong?


----------



## ibglowin

mennyg19 said:


> Am I getting something wrong?



The only time you want warm(er) temps is during fermentation and clearing. After that cooler is always better. You can ferment in a cold room by using a brew belt or heating pad to keep things at a warmer temp in the bucket while the room stays nice and cool.


----------



## Johnd

hounddawg said:


> does the carboy rack give you room to use a wine thief on your carboy,
> Dawg



Not a full sized one, but I've left enough space to be able to pull the airlock and bung out with no problem. I have two thieves, one will be cut down to be able to steal small samples for tasting without pulling the carboy from the rack.

There's also room to feed the tubing into the carboy from my super jet, so I'll be able to filter or rack with the pump from the one carboy to another. A slight tilt to the carboy will enable me to insert a racking cane for transfers as well. Truth be told, it's pretty simple to move the carboy a few feet to the work counter for any needed work, but the flexibility is nice.


----------



## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> The only time you want warm(er) temps is during fermentation and clearing. After that cooler is always better. You can ferment in a cold room by using a brew belt or heating pad to keep things at a warmer temp in the bucket while the room stays nice and cool.



Only caveat I'd add to Mike's answer is that for white wines, lower temps in the 60 degree range can be beneficial, as it allows for better retention of the flavors and aromas in whites. Reds will still be fermented outside of the room. I do intend to ferment all whites in the room from here on out. When AF is over, they'll come out to warm up to room temp for KMS and degassing, and back into the cellar to sit in the carboy rack.

I won't move my barrels into the room until all of the woodwork is complete.


----------



## hounddawg

thank you for the info, I'll be trying for no movement, left foot front half amputated, right leg amputated below the knee, back T2 thru T7 bulging (BULL) T12 crushed (HORSE) then top 7 inches of backbone grinded 5/16 wide to remove infection from spinal cord, but your cellar is way beyond A+,, UNTILL MY HEALTH WENT I did custom trim and custom laminates, so I can tell your system is a grade A+ system, but I think if I build a carboy rack I can slot in the center back about 6 inches or so, just half to run a header beam just back behind the slot , in my shape that little easy move does not exist for me anymore ,, but I have learned a lot from your pictures,, you have well earned the right of pride, my hats off to you,, GOD BLESS
keep your powder dry,
Dawg:: Richard,,, 





Johnd said:


> Not a full sized one, but I've left enough space to be able to pull the airlock and bung out with no problem. I have two thieves, one will be cut down to be able to steal small samples for tasting without pulling the carboy from the rack.
> 
> There's also room to feed the tubing into the carboy from my super jet, so I'll be able to filter or rack with the pump from the one carboy to another. A slight tilt to the carboy will enable me to insert a racking cane for transfers as well. Truth be told, it's pretty simple to move the carboy a few feet to the work counter for any needed work, but the flexibility is nice.


----------



## JohnT

mennyg19 said:


> Yet I see alot of people with carboys and barrels in their wine rooms. Am I getting something wrong?


 


Most use barrels to age wine (although some like to barrel ferment).


----------



## mennyg19

Any updates?


----------



## Johnd

mennyg19 said:


> Any updates?



Sorry, just got back from a four day cruise today, been working in there since 9 AM. I did a lot. The only real woodwork left to do is the crown around the top, which I'll get tomorrow. Stone tops and back splashes scheduled for Wednesday, hope to then get the sink and disposal installed before the weekend. 

Carboy storage installed and trimmed, been moving stuff in there last couple hours. Sorry bout the compressor in the pic, just didn't feel like moving it.


----------



## Johnd

Display area, cabinet doors installed, all trimmed out.


----------



## Johnd

......and the work area


----------



## Boatboy24

Looking awesome.


----------



## mennyg19

Amazing, maybe come to israel to build one for me?


----------



## Johnd

mennyg19 said:


> Amazing, maybe come to israel to build one for me?



Ha! I've been working on this thing for months, I don't think you'd be happy with the price if I had to come to Israel for a few months. Although, there are a lot of places in Israel I'd love to visit......


----------



## Floandgary

So what are plans when you're done?? "DONE"?????? You've been showing us something new every day for quite some time now. How do you plan to top this?

Oh BTW,,,, I like the carboy storage,,,,,, Covered Reds on top and unbelievably clear whites on the bottom Please don't tell us those are empty's!!


----------



## Johnd

Floandgary said:


> So what are plans when you're done?? "DONE"?????? You've been showing us something new every day for quite some time now. How do you plan to top this?
> 
> Oh BTW,,,, I like the carboy storage,,,,,, Covered Reds on top and unbelievably clear whites on the bottom Please don't tell us those are empty's!!



So, your two comments tie together quite nicely. Yes those clear wine carboys are indeed empties, in planning for what I'm going to do next. Make wine from grapes. Yeah, I know not as exciting as the room, but that's why I have it. I've got a Sonoma zin, chile Malbec and cab in MLF at the moment. I'll do some frozen musts between now and fall, but I'm going to get a big (for me) batch of must, a pallet of buckets. Pretty stoked.


----------



## ceeaton

Johnd said:


> Carboy storage installed and trimmed, been moving stuff in there last couple hours. Sorry bout the compressor in the pic, just didn't feel like moving it.



I like the carboy storage, that's a great idea!


----------



## Johnd

ceeaton said:


> I like the carboy storage, that's a great idea!



Thanks, they just take up so much floor space, I felt like if I could go two high, it'd help out. Have 14 carboys and 14 slots. Hoping it stays that way, but I can't pass up a good winemaking opportunity!


----------



## Johnd

hounddawg said:


> i'd be honored,
> thank you,
> Dawg



OK, feet back on terra firma, dug up my old sketches from the conceptual phase, sketch attached. I'm sure there are many ways to skin this cat, but this is my way.

The attached is for your normal run of the mill 750 ml Bordeaux bottle, which is what I use for all of my wine (other than the occasional 375), green for reds, clear for whites, rose', etc. The verticals are 1x2 nominal dimensions, the 1/2 x 1/2 bottle holders are exactly 1/2 x 1/2. Distance between the verticals is 3.25", distance between the bottle holders is 3". It's efficient spacing, but not too crowded. If you wanted to tighten up the 3" between bottle holders, there is a little room to do so, but it may throw off your horizontal alignment if you have larger bottles to accomodate.

I also have some racks to handle larger bottles, and I wanted all bottles to line up horizontally, so everything is the same except the distance between the verticals, which was increased to 3-13/16", this accommodates the largest 750's I have, and because the bottle holders are all at 3" spacing, the normal and larger bottles all line up horizontally. If you tightened up the 3" bottle holder spacing for the regular 750's too much, the bigger bottles wouldn't fit well even though the verticals were spaced out to 3-13/16". Clear as mud?

Don't go too tight, or you'll risk tearing the labels off of your bottles.


----------



## hounddawg

At some time i will steal this ideal but will always give you the credit for it,
dawg::






johnd said:


> thanks, they just take up so much floor space, i felt like if i could go two high, it'd help out. Have 14 carboys and 14 slots. Hoping it stays that way, but i can't pass up a good winemaking opportunity!


----------



## Johnd

Got both of the tops set today, nice big solid 3 cm black granite tops. The top pic is the display counter, bottom one is the work counter. 

The sink is flush mounted to the bottom of the stone top, with a 1/2" reveal from the sink top all of the way around. I have two pieces of matching stone that fit into the cutout for the sink and rest on the reveal of the sink, flush with the top. So if I don't need the sink and want the work top, I can put them in, or I could just have one in place and utilize the sink through the other half of the opening. Just a little idea to increase flexibility of the area.

By tomorrow, the adhesives will be set and the work to install the backsplashes will begin. I hope to get the crown, some little misc. trim, and the LED lighting installed over the weekend. I've never messed with the LED tape lighting, but it's 12V stuff and shouldn't be too hard to figure out.


----------



## ibglowin

To stinkin' purty to be a wine making room!


----------



## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> To stinkin' purty to be a wine making room!



Clean, squared away rooms make clean, squared away wines!!


----------



## Johnd

Photo of the sink with the filler panels in place, and a section of the backsplash.


----------



## mennyg19

Hi John, u gonna post your final costs when the whole thing is loaded?


----------



## Johnd

mennyg19 said:


> Hi John, u gonna post your final costs when the whole thing is loaded?



Do you mean the cost to build it or the cost to load it with wine????


----------



## mennyg19

Lol, both (though the wines wouldn't concern me, I can only have kosher wine, so it would probably cost me double as much as you paid to load it)


----------



## Kraffty

Looks great from beginning to end, how deep is that sink and are you putting a tall gooseneck faucet in there?
Mike


----------



## Johnd

mennyg19 said:


> Lol, both (though the wines wouldn't concern me, I can only have kosher wine, so it would probably cost me double as much as you paid to load it)



I'll be happy to, but won't have all of the costs in for a bit yet. I should probably add that I've gotten a fair amount of "discounts / freebies" since I own a commercial construction company and for the few trades I subcontracted work to, I used folks that I do a lot of business with.


----------



## Johnd

Kraffty said:


> Looks great from beginning to end, how deep is that sink and are you putting a tall gooseneck faucet in there?
> Mike



Thanks Mike, I appreciate it. As for the sink, it's just a tad shy of 10" deep and is undermounted to the stone top, so the bottom of the sink is 11" or so from the top of the stone. And yes, it has a tall gooseneck faucet, 13" to the top of the curve in the faucet, 9" from the spout to the stone. 

I think I know where you're going, so from the sink bottom to the spout is going to be just over 20", a little short to rotate over a carboy opening, but with a slight tilt, it will be able to dispense water into a carboy for cleaning. It also has a side sprayer with a 4' hose.


----------



## Johnd

Back splashes done and looking very righteous!


----------



## Johnd

The workspace side of the room.


----------



## Boatboy24

Very righteous, indeed!!!


----------



## Tnuscan

Nice, it's going to be really hard to leave that room.


----------



## 4huskrs

Very nice indeed, I am jealous and. Nice job.
Ron


----------



## ceeaton

Tnuscan said:


> Nice, it's going to be really hard to leave that room.



I think if it was in the 90's with dewpoint in the high 70's outside I'd move a cot in there! Wifey can fend for herself.


----------



## Johnd

ceeaton said:


> I think if it was in the 90's with dewpoint in the high 70's outside I'd move a cot in there! Wifey can fend for herself.



We're having our typical summer here, although it started a lot earlier than usual, temps and humidity in the upper 90's, it's really depressing. Installing crown last night, 60 degrees and 71% humidity was a real pleasure, but I don't think I'm ready to pay the price for sleeping in there.............


----------



## Johnd

Couple of "done" photos. All the trim is done LED's and dimmers installed, touched up the paint, swept, vacuumed, wiped down all the surfaces, tools out of the room. DONE.


----------



## Johnd

Work area, ready to go.


----------



## mennyg19

This is amazing!


----------



## ibglowin

Is this the same backsplash stone you picked out originally? Some the finished pics the stone looks almost emerald green as compared to a more grey/brown color shown in this pic here.









Johnd said:


> Couple of "done" photos. All the trim is done LED's and dimmers installed, touched up the paint, swept, vacuumed, wiped down all the surfaces, tools out of the room. DONE.


----------



## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> Is this the same backsplash stone you picked out originally? Some the finished pics the stone looks almost emerald green as compared to a more grey/brown color shown in this pic here.



Yes, it is Mike. Just like the floor, which is the same slate as the back splashes, once washed with water, it has a color enhancer applied along with a sealer. It really brings out the color variation in the tile and makes them pop. Admittedly, the colors are darker, richer, and a bit more "shiny" than the unfinished samples. Of course, as with all natural products, there is variation within each production run, even within each box of material, so you just try to mix it up as best you can.

And I agree, the photo looks very emerald green, I don't know why, it doesn't look like that in person, maybe the photo, the lighting, picking something up from the top, just not sure.......


----------



## Tnuscan

This has been a fun project to watch, from start to finish. Thanks for letting us enjoy the journey! Your a true craftsman for sure, I bet your wines are spectacular also. 

Pop a cork on something really nice, sit back and enjoy it. You've definitely earned it. Oh yeah...just send the bill to ibglowin. 

Cheers!!!


----------



## ibglowin

I am going with the lighting or lack there of. Love the finished look. Hands down best in class winery/cellar!


----------



## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> I am going with the lighting or lack there of. Love the finished look. Hands down best in class winery/cellar!



Thanks Mike, the vote of confidence is greatly appreciated! 

I was looking back over the thread this morning, hard to believe it's only been 3.5 months or so, feels like it went on forever. I'm pleased with the results. 

Now it's time to pay the piper. Lots of honey do projects to catch up on, and a lot of wines to get back into, barrels to be racked, and a couple kits on deck.


----------



## BlueStimulator

*WOW* is really all I can say about what you have completed. 

Well Done!!!!

:


----------



## JohnT

... Now all you need to do is fill it!


----------



## Mismost

JohnD....thanks for the play by play, I truly enjoyed watching it all come together. Awesome job, and I agree ibglowin, best one I've seen. Very tasteful.


----------



## ILWIIA

Fantastic work, Johnd - superior craftsmanship.


----------



## ceeaton

You can sure be proud of the work you did on that room! My wife would never see me again unless she came to "the room".

Now I have to figure out a way to lure you up here to build my room (once I figure out how to pay for it).

Someday when the kids leave the house (I'd give it 15 years at least) and my wife and I start to travel, New Orleans is one of our destinations. I'll have to bring some wine to help stock those somewhat empty shelves.


----------



## Johnd

ceeaton said:


> You can sure be proud of the work you did on that room! My wife would never see me again unless she came to "the room".
> 
> Now I have to figure out a way to lure you up here to build my room (once I figure out how to pay for it).
> 
> Someday when the kids leave the house (I'd give it 15 years at least) and my wife and I start to travel, New Orleans is one of our destinations. I'll have to bring some wine to help stock those somewhat empty shelves.



Thanks Craig, kudos appreciated. Hopefully, in 15 years, il have completed the phase 2 and 3 additions!


----------



## hounddawg

before becoming all crippled up I grew up building FHA homes, my first solo with a helper that new zero, I built my first FHA by myself at age 15...., I grandfathered in to federally certified carpenter, plumber, and electrician, then left residential and went into retail commercial contractor, (shopping mall stores)(MALL RAT) after learning frame and hang from the lid down using metal studs and screws, the went into custom laminates then custom trim work, your work makes me wish very hare for my health back, you do fine work, along with having a keen aptitude for design to boot, and from the looks of your work you enjoy building with your own hands, so it has finally happened, you started with a mouth full of marbles, every day you spit out 1 marble a day once you've lost all your marbles you are then a member of splinter getters, you should be proud my man, very proud indeed.
richard 





Johnd said:


> Thanks Craig, kudos appreciated. Hopefully, in 15 years, il have completed the phase 2 and 3 additions!


----------



## Johnd

Finally got to do some wine work in the room, racking to / from barrels, cleaning carboys, etc. It was really nice having all of my stuff "at hand" on the shelves and a big sink to clean. Racked and reloaded two barrels without spilling a drop outside of the sink!


----------



## mennyg19

Hi John, When racking out of the barrel, how do you know how deep to go in order not to pull up the lees?
Also, will you be posting your final plans and pricing for the room?


----------



## Johnd

mennyg19 said:


> Hi John, When racking out of the barrel, how do you know how deep to go in order not to pull up the lees?
> Also, will you be posting your final plans and pricing for the room?



Menny, my wines have typically been racked several times and are 6 months old before going into the barrels, so there's little to no sediment. I rack out of the barrel and into a carboy without using the anti-sediment tip and it will be in the carboy for another few months before final adjustments and bottling. I typically rack to a bottling bucket before bottling. 

The plans are posted several pages back. Don't have all of the final costs in just yet.


----------



## Johnd

After much mental debate, I decided to keep the existing door to the room, opting to trim it out with mahogany, and paint the existing door and frame black. 

Now I need to decide what to do with the window to spruce it up a bit.......


----------



## NorCal

Looks good. A little glass etching?


----------



## stickman

You may want to put bars over the window to keep the wine from growing legs. Looks good.


----------



## Johnd

NorCal said:


> Looks good. A little glass etching?



That's one of my thoughts. I found a company that produces etched decals for wine room doors and windows. Below is a sample of some of their work, which can by customized both for the size of the opening as well as the text. You can also submit your own design which they use to create one for you.


----------



## NorCal

Looks perfect.


----------



## Floandgary

Like the decal idea.. Don't forget about Stained Glass as a possibility


----------



## Johnd

Floandgary said:


> Like the decal idea.. Don't forget about Stained Glass as a possibility



Mrs. JohnD was pretty hyped on the stained glass option, but I didn't want to replace the double insulated glass window with single pane stained glass, just didn't want to give up the R-value. As I looked into that a bit more, you can get a double insulated glass window with stained glass in between the panes, but I'd have to give up my first born for that option, quite pricey. I'd also have to change out the stops on the door to accommodate the thicker glass panel. That's when we ended up looking at different types of covering applications, curtains, films, tints, I even considered hiring an artist to paint something on there.


----------



## BlueStimulator

Get the stained glass done and hang it or frame it in the existing door window. Just a thought


----------



## hounddawg

I am single to much road time so I'm untrained but would stained carpet work instead:: LOL
Dawg





Johnd said:


> Mrs. JohnD was pretty hyped on the stained glass option, but I didn't want to replace the double insulated glass window with single pane stained glass, just didn't want to give up the R-value. As I looked into that a bit more, you can get a double insulated glass window with stained glass in between the panes, but I'd have to give up my first born for that option, quite pricey. I'd also have to change out the stops on the door to accommodate the thicker glass panel. That's when we ended up looking at different types of covering applications, curtains, films, tints, I even considered hiring an artist to paint something on there.


----------



## Floandgary

hounddawg said:


> I am single to much road time so I'm untrained but would stained carpet work instead:: LOL
> Dawg


"R, R, R" Wait,,,, stained with what??


----------



## hounddawg

,, 20 years of untamed un-broken never grew up, I was going to rip up this master piece for Johnd had fed-ex overnight waiting, but I think this might kill a broken house trained man, I better keep it hidden, I had time to think this over if it got our one made it into the early golden years without being broken and trained I am now in fear for my life, man, I was joking Johnd this master piece does not exist, AND SHAME, SHAME, SHAME ON YOU FLOANDGARY FOR TRYING TO BAIT ME,, LOL,, whew that was close it's my story an I'm sticking to it NO MATTER WHAT ,, bet you ole tame boys forgot them words can go the other way, naw they cant. just try an see,, you're sworn to silence, remember you accepted me, as flawed as I am, whew close again, 
I have been HACKED the big boys are at fault never you angelic ladies, 
man yall scare me, you should protect this site instead of teasing all yall's better halves with broken promises of stained what ever, I now know why your better halves say yall are still not properly house trained even after all the years of flawless training from them, i'm as disappointed as they are with ya'll, um on the down low I am still welcome aint I after all the rooster rules the roast but the hen rules the rooster, sorry fellows i'm a coward I got to hang with the winning side, wink , wink
Your Honest Dawg 






Floandgary said:


> "R, R, R" Wait,,,, stained with what??


----------



## Johnd

hounddawg said:


> I am single to much road time so I'm untrained but would stained carpet work instead:: LOL
> Dawg



All right, that was a pretty good one Dawg!! 

If it would work, I'd have plenty to choose from, about 40,000 homes are flooded and being gutted 20 miles west of me.


----------



## ceeaton

A low cost option. Have the kids paint the window, there are special paints that work really well. If you need some kids I have four I'll lend you, ages 17 down to 9.


----------



## Brub58

hounddawg said:


> would stained carpet work instead:: LOL
> Dawg



It might be nice.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb4n8yc2so[/ame]


----------



## Johnd

ceeaton said:


> A low cost option. Have the kids paint the window, there are special paints that work really well. If you need some kids I have four I'll lend you, ages 17 down to 9.



I have four, thanks. With paint, those are the last creatures I'd allow in the room, that's why it has a key! Protected from my 20, 17, 11, and 9.


----------



## ceeaton

Johnd said:


> I have four, thanks. With paint, those are the last creatures I'd allow in the room, that's why it has a key! Protected from my 20, 17, 11, and 9.



Lock and key, good idea. I just know if I had a room like that here, I'd be in it more than I'd be upstairs (hummm, might be onto something there...) and I could say "well, I let you paint the window on the door, so now you have to let me look from inside for a few hours today to enjoy your creation...", I'm sure I could use that explanation at least once a weekend.


----------



## hounddawg

yes it is sad about all the flooding even close to me and down the Mississippi , I live above in the very instep of Mo. boot hills, and below me it is terrible, and sad,
Dawg


----------



## Floandgary

hounddawg said:


> ,, 20 years of untamed un-broken never grew up, I was going to rip up this master piece for Johnd had fed-ex overnight waiting, but I think this might kill a broken house trained man, I better keep it hidden, I had time to think this over if it got our one made it into the early golden years without being broken and trained I am now in fear for my life, man, I was joking Johnd this master piece does not exist, AND SHAME, SHAME, SHAME ON YOU FLOANDGARY FOR TRYING TO BAIT ME,, LOL,, whew that was close it's my story an I'm sticking to it NO MATTER WHAT ,, bet you ole tame boys forgot them words can go the other way, naw they cant. just try an see,, you're sworn to silence, remember you accepted me, as flawed as I am, whew close again,
> I have been HACKED the big boys are at fault never you angelic ladies,
> man yall scare me, you should protect this site instead of teasing all yall's better halves with broken promises of stained what ever, I now know why your better halves say yall are still not properly house trained even after all the years of flawless training from them, i'm as disappointed as they are with ya'll, um on the down low I am still welcome aint I after all the rooster rules the roast but the hen rules the rooster, sorry fellows i'm a coward I got to hang with the winning side, wink , wink
> Your Honest Dawg



DAWG,,,, most of us would come across as a rather boring lot if it weren't for the occasional "DAWG" bark!!!


----------



## hounddawg

you can't fool me, ya'll just learned to act trained I was never so smart, sadly I still aint that smart, LOL.
Dawg








Floandgary said:


> DAWG,,,, most of us would come across as a rather boring lot if it weren't for the occasional "DAWG" bark!!!


----------



## Johnd

This is a pretty cool panoramic of the room taken with the iPad, hope it posts well.


----------



## AZMDTed

Beautiful work


----------



## stickman

Very nice, you just need to have a little wine spatter here and there to make it look used......Very good John.


----------



## Johnd

stickman said:


> Very nice, you just need to have a little wine spatter here and there to make it look used......Very good John.



Had plenty of red wine splatters, a little spritz of KMS clears it right up.


----------



## jpftribe

Not very often I would read 25 pages in a thread, but that was well worth the time.

Really, really nice effort with commensurate results. Spectacular finish. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Johnd

@jpftribe I'm glad you enjoyed the thread, and thank you for the kind words, it's a really nice looking addition and has all of the functionality I envisioned. Well......... except maybe I should have put a TV in there, but I can always add that on as time goes by.


----------



## Johnd

So the last step of the wine room project involved me finishing the kitchen. I took out a double window and closed it in when converting the outside space into the room. This left a big empty wall in the kitchen, which I promised the Mrs. would have cabinets to give her the additional cabinet space she wanted........it actually helped me sell the deal. 

Today, the custom cabinets were delivered and I installed them after dinner. Still a little crown to install, but they're on the wall!!


----------



## AZMDTed

John, 

A beautiful and well crafted project from beginning to end. Great job and thanks for sharing.

Ted


----------



## JohnT

You are without a doubt a pro!!!! 

.. but in more ways than one. 

You have obvious skills in woodworking, but you excel at marital diplomacy. You should be teaching classes in both!


----------



## ibglowin

Looks great but...... One of these things is not like the other! 



Johnd said:


> Today, the custom cabinets were delivered and I installed them after dinner. Still a little crown to install, but they're on the wall!!


----------



## Redbird1

ibglowin said:


> Looks great but...... One of these things is not like the other!


 I noticed that too, but figured there was a good reason for it.

The whole build is fantastic. In several years I hope to do something on a smaller scale in the basement. There's just no way my wife would let me take out a window anywhere in the house, unless I replaced it with one or two others. She loves natural light.


----------



## Johnd

JohnT said:


> You are without a doubt a pro!!!!
> 
> .. but in more ways than one.
> 
> You have obvious skills in woodworking, but you excel at marital diplomacy. You should be teaching classes in both!



Thanks for your comments about the woodwork, very much appreciated.

So, I could just accept the marital diplomacy comment and move on, but that's just not my style, so here's my comment about that:

"I've been teaching classes in marital diplomacy for years, I think wife number 3 is finally catching on"


----------



## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> Looks great but...... One of these things is not like the other!



Yeah, you can't see it in the pic, but the existing wall of cabinets on the left has one cabinet elevated higher than the others, so we mimicked that detail on the new wall as well. It kinda gives you a little more working space underneath and breaks up the monotony of a straight wall of cabinetry........


----------



## Johnd

Redbird1 said:


> I noticed that too, but figured there was a good reason for it.
> 
> The whole build is fantastic. In several years I hope to do something on a smaller scale in the basement. There's just no way my wife would let me take out a window anywhere in the house, unless I replaced it with one or two others. She loves natural light.



Mine likes natural light as well, but apparently she likes wine more........


----------



## Redbird1

Johnd said:


> Mine likes natural light as well, but apparently she likes wine more........


 Mine isn't to that point yet, but the basement conversion should be an easy sell when funds and time are available.


----------



## Johnd

With all of the fall wines through MLF, sulfited, and moved into the wine room, she's operating nearly at capacity!!


----------



## Boatboy24

Damn, that's sexy!!!


----------



## Amanda660

Is that a little wine barrel trash can to the far left?


----------



## Johnd

Amanda660 said:


> Is that a little wine barrel trash can to the far left?



Yes, it is. I contacted North American Barrel and inquired into used or defective barrels that had been returned. Picked it up for $20, cut the head out, and voila! Trash can. Still smells like bourbon too.


----------



## Amanda660

I'm just a little jealous of the trash can but SUPER jealous of the whole project. Thanks so much for sharing!


----------



## Johnd

So, despite all of my pre Christmas hinting to the Mrs., Santa didn't bring me the table and chairs that would complete the wine room. Taking matters into my own hands (plus a sale!), just ordered this set for the room. Very excited to receive them..........in 6-8 weeks.


----------



## Brickhouse

Just went through every page of this thread. Incredible. Well done to say the least.


----------



## NorCal

Very nice. I like the industrial / fictional look.


----------



## ibglowin

Let me know how you like it once it arrives, especially the build quality (for that kind of $$$). Everything I have ever ordered from that site has been very poor quality. Just this Holiday I ordered some Xmas ornaments with my winery name on them. Not cheap ($35 ea). I thought I was getting laser etching but instead it was just stamped on the ornament. I was able to smear the "customization" right off with my thumb..... I also ordered a custom cellar sign. Again very shoddy work and the wood feels almost like balsa wood, so fragile if you breath on it it may break..... Ordered a set of "Madmen" style highball glasses several years ago, again same thing very poor quality. Glass was full of defects and the shiny steel rim along the top was all tarnished and colored. I called and complained and they refunded my $$$ and said to keep the glasses as a "gift".....





Johnd said:


> just ordered this set for the room. Very excited to receive them..........in 6-8 weeks.


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> Let me know how you like it once it arrives, especially the build quality (for that kind of $$$). Everything I have ever ordered from that site has been very poor quality. Just this Holiday I ordered some Xmas ornaments with my winery name on them. Not cheap ($35 ea). I thought I was getting laser etching but instead it was just stamped on the ornament. I was able to smear the "customization" right off with my thumb..... I also ordered a custom cellar sign. Again very shoddy work and the wood feels almost like balsa wood, so fragile if you breath on it it may break..... Ordered a set of "Madmen" style highball glasses several years ago, again same thing very poor quality. Glass was full of defects and the shiny steel rim along the top was all tarnished and colored. I called and complained and they refunded my $$$ and said to keep the glasses as a "gift".....



I'll definitely do that. I'm really uncomfortable buying stuff that I can't see in person and touch. Therefore, I called and spoke with the salesman (I know his job is to sell) about the pieces, he confirmed that he'd sat on the stools and that they were very sturdy, as well as the table. All of the table base components are cast iron and very heavy, table doesn't wobble on the long spindle that supports it, you know the drill. I'm a skeptic until I see it in person..........but it looks nice in the picture and should work well in the room from a space standpoint.


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## Casper137

Wowzers! Great Project.

I probably should have built a wine room instead of the 600 square foot deck we just had built since I live in snow country and only get to use the deck half the year. 



Johnd said:


> Had a little free time this morning at 6 AM before baseball playoffs and yard work, cut 50 verticals and 1500 bottle supports, whipped out a few frames and set / fastened them in place. It's a meager start, but I've got the kinks worked out. Just need to put in the hours now........





Johnd said:


> OK, feet back on terra firma, dug up my old sketches from the conceptual phase, sketch attached. I'm sure there are many ways to skin this cat, but this is my way.
> 
> The attached is for your normal run of the mill 750 ml Bordeaux bottle, which is what I use for all of my wine (other than the occasional 375), green for reds, clear for whites, rose', etc. The verticals are 1x2 nominal dimensions, the 1/2 x 1/2 bottle holders are exactly 1/2 x 1/2. Distance between the verticals is 3.25", distance between the bottle holders is 3". It's efficient spacing, but not too crowded. If you wanted to tighten up the 3" between bottle holders, there is a little room to do so, but it may throw off your horizontal alignment if you have larger bottles to accomodate.
> 
> I also have some racks to handle larger bottles, and I wanted all bottles to line up horizontally, so everything is the same except the distance between the verticals, which was increased to 3-13/16", this accommodates the largest 750's I have, and because the bottle holders are all at 3" spacing, the normal and larger bottles all line up horizontally. If you tightened up the 3" bottle holder spacing for the regular 750's too much, the bigger bottles wouldn't fit well even though the verticals were spaced out to 3-13/16". Clear as mud?
> 
> Don't go too tight, or you'll risk tearing the labels off of your bottles.





I'm planning to build this EXACT setup in my "wine room" which is really just the far end of my 50 foot long bowling alley of a bedroom which the wife just loves the smell of yeast. (I think that came out wrong).

I saw you posted some dimensions in a post but was wondering if I could get a few more details.

I was planning going about ~7 foot wide and ~7 foot high with a ~2 foot by ~2 foot open space for display with a shelf.

It looks like you utilized the existing studs for reinforcement with the backing board?

Did you assemble all the bottle holders to the vertical with screws? or a nail gun?


Thanks so much in advance John.


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## Johnd

Casper137 said:


> Wowzers! Great Project!
> 
> 
> I saw you posted some dimensions in a post but was wondering if I could get a few more details.
> 
> It looks like you utilized the existing studs for reinforcement with the backing board?
> 
> Did you assemble all the bottle holders to the vertical with screws? or a nail gun?
> 
> Thanks so much in advance John.



Thanks for the kudos, much appreciated. 

The room is standard construction, with 2 x studs on 16" centers, closed cell spray foam insulation, and 1/2" MR drywall, taped, floated and painted. From there, all of the woodwork is surface applied over the drywall, but certainly nailed through it and into the studs. 

Horizontal 1x2's were attached to the wall behind the racking, the racks attach to those horizontals. Each rack was built individually in a jig that I made to keep them all uniform. Everything was made, and attached with a pneumatic trim nailer, using appropriate length nails for the application. 

I'll post some "under construction" photos and a finished product of one area to help illustrate the above.


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> Let me know how you like it once it arrives, especially the build quality (for that kind of $$$). Everything I have ever ordered from that site has been very poor quality. Just this Holiday I ordered some Xmas ornaments with my winery name on them. Not cheap ($35 ea). I thought I was getting laser etching but instead it was just stamped on the ornament. I was able to smear the "customization" right off with my thumb..... I also ordered a custom cellar sign. Again very shoddy work and the wood feels almost like balsa wood, so fragile if you breath on it it may break..... Ordered a set of "Madmen" style highball glasses several years ago, again same thing very poor quality. Glass was full of defects and the shiny steel rim along the top was all tarnished and colored. I called and complained and they refunded my $$$ and said to keep the glasses as a "gift".....



Just an update, this was due in early March, but the #*¥~#* thing isn't in yet. Purportedly delayed due to QC issues at the manufacturer, I don't like the sound of that at all. It's supposed to be in from the manufacturer this week for "inspection" prior to shipping to me. They did give me a $75 coupon as a token of apology for the delay. More later...........


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## ibglowin

LOL Called it!



Johnd said:


> Purportedly delayed due to QC issues at the manufacturer, I don't like the sound of that at all............


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## Johnd

OK, @ibglowin etal, here's my evaluation of this purchase, from the onset to now.

Ordering and paying was a breeze, made an inquiry about the product and got a call from a salesman, we chatted, he was able to cut some $$ off of the shipping since it was going to my office, commercial delivery.

The product was scheduled for delivery about 40 days ago, they apologized and sent me a $75 gift certificate for my trouble, haven't used it yet.........It shipped this past Monday and arrived here just fine today, loaded it up and took it home at lunch.

Came in 4 boxes (table base, table top, chair, chair) and was packed well, a bit hard to cut through all of the wrapping plastic, but it was done well and there was no damage to the product.

The table base is very heavy cast iron, probably weighs around 60 pounds, really solid, goes up and down easily, locks in place, and was already assembled except for one leg, which I installed with the included bolts and hex wrench in just a few minutes. The top is nicely stained with a pretty decent finish on it, color as expected. The top has a steel structure underneath with a 3/4" threaded nipple which fit right into the threaded female hole in the top of the base spindle, about 10 or so revolutions of the top tightened it up nicely. The table is stable on its feet and the top has no wobble to it at all, even extended all of the way up as it is in the picture. It's a winner.

The chairs aren't quite as heavy as the table, but are sturdy. They came assembled except for the backs, which bolted right on with the included hardware and an open end wrench. They're wooden seats, so I wasn't really expecting the lap of luxury, but they are fairly comfortable.

Start to finish, unboxing, assembling and setting them in the room took about 30 minutes and was quite easy, although the table base is a bit awkward to move around. I'm fairly pleased with the product, it fits nicely in the room, physically and aesthetically, plenty of room to maneuver around and the chairs tuck up under the table pretty nicely. 

I'll invite Mrs. JohnD in for a bottle tonite and we'll put it to the test...........


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## Kraffty

How do you say "looking better" when it's been looking awesome all along. Great Job,
Mike


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## Johnd

It's been right at a year since I finished this project, I've really been loving the smell, feel, solitude, and efficiency of the room. 

I spent a lot of time in there over the weekend, emptying and refilling barrels, and my last kit is in the one remaining "non MLB" barrel, and a bunch of grape wines are out. They're all tasting pretty solid, young and tannic, but tasty. I now have seven carboys ready for bottling between now and harvest. 

No biggie, except that when those 210 bottles hit the racks, you guessed it, I'll be at bottle capacity. With nine full carboys waiting for barrels, 36 gallons still in barrels, and harvest around the corner, I'm in a tight spot. 

Think I'll make grape wine this fall since I have carboy spaces available and start drinking a lot more wine........while contemplating an addition. Maybe add on to the front of some racks and go two bottles deep......


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## Boatboy24

Time to join some competitions...

...or send me some wine.


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## ibglowin

You are going to have to bite the bullet and get a couple of those Seville Racks for the hooch. Keep the commercial in your nice individual wood racks.





Johnd said:


> No biggie, except that when those 210 bottles hit the racks, you guessed it, I'll be at bottle capacity. With nine full carboys waiting for barrels, 36 gallons still in barrels, and harvest around the corner, I'm in a tight spot.


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## Johnd

Pretty much come to the end of the “getting started” plan that kicked off several years back: “Make enough wine for it to be able to age”. I now have kits at 3 + yo, wine from grapes at 2 + yo, and lots of commercial stuff in the cellar, 4 full 6 gallon vadais, one full 12 gallon vadai, a full 30 gallon French barrel, 12 gallons Tempranillo waiting for the 12 gallon vadai, and 3 carboys of press and free run wine from Fall ‘17. The Bravado (my last kit) is 18 months old, still in carboy, and the Chilean Malbec is ready to bottle (almost 2 yo). Time to slow down.

Started today converting the top 7 carboy slots into wine bottle storage, and decided to attack the biggest storage issue I have, Burgundy bottles. You’d be hard pressed to find the few Pinot Noirs in my cellar, but most of my Zins and Petite Sirahs are in burgundy bottles as well. They don’t play nice, don’t fit in some slots for Bordeaux’s and don’t stack worth a crap in diamonds.

Converted over 2-1/2 of the slots this morning, and moved the pesky 2015 Turleys, freeing up several diamonds for my recent bottlings. I’ll just keep pecking away at it over the next few days, get the 14 Turleys moved, and still have room for the petite sirahs. It happened, pics to prove it!!


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## Zintrigue

Goals, right here. Goals.


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## bkisel

Johnd said:


> View attachment 45923
> View attachment 45924
> Pretty much come to the end...



John, forgive me but I think you need to take your hobby a little more seriously.


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## Johnd

bkisel said:


> John, forgive me but I think you need to to take your hobby a little more seriously.



Agreed, but while still working full time +, just doing my best. Maybe when hours can be cut back a bit, or retirement, it can really get going.....


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## Johnd

L
Finished the carboy storage conversion Saturday afternoon, moved all of the burgundy bottle wines into them, freed up a lot of space. Capsuled, labeled and racked 45 bottles of PG, and now I’ve got some free space finally! Won’t last long though, 10 cases worth of wine that’s ready to bottle, and another 15 or so cases before summer.


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## JohnT

So John, when are you going to start your next project... Expanding the cellar??????


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## Johnd

@JohnT , that's not going to happen. There's plenty of space to accommodate way more wine than I need, so it's pre-programmed to be my failsafe limiter. I've always planned to be able to re-purpose certain areas once I had "enough" wine in bottles, frankly, didn't think that point would be reached so quickly, but here it is. In the end, even the bottom carboy racks will be converted over to storage, production will be AF and MLF in the house, barrel aging in one large barrel (30 or 60 gallon) in the wine room, then to bottle shortly after. One large batch per year, although the occasional small batch of white wine will creep in upon occasion. This will more than accommodate our consumption and gifting habits.


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## JohnT

Oh Sure, Sure.......


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## Tom in IN

John,

First time poster here. Absolutely beautiful room, you should be very proud of your work!

A couple of questions...

it looks like from your blueprints (post 60) that the depth of your racks are 12”, correct?

Also, you mentioned that you bought your wood online. Care to share your source?

Thanks,

Tom


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## Johnd

Tom in IN said:


> John,
> 
> First time poster here. Absolutely beautiful room, you should be very proud of your work!
> 
> A couple of questions...
> 
> it looks like from your blueprints (post 60) that the depth of your racks are 12”, correct?
> 
> Also, you mentioned that you bought your wood online. Care to share your source?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom



Tom, you are correct, racks are 12” deep. 

As for the wood, not sure where I may have mentioned an online source, but if I did, it was an error. My wood all came from one of my millwork subcontractors, who also lives a few doors down and is a good friend. Not sure where he sourced it from.....


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## damaskrose

Impressive rack you got there.


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## Johnd

Just a little word of caution / advice for those of you who may have a garbage disposal in your wine area, or use one in your kitchen, though one that gets regular use is less likely to have issues.

First, to set the stage, the sink / disposal has been in use for about 2-1/2 years, and doesn’t get a lot of action, as it’s in the wine room and only gets used by me when working on wine related activities. Last week I noticed that the disposal was stuck, second time it had happened, no big deal. This unit doesn’t have an Allen fitting on the bottom of the shaft to work it loose from under the sink, the manufacturer recommends a wooden broom handle from the top for this task. After a lot of effort with no results, I finally declared no joy and called my plumber. 

When he got the unit removed, the grinder plate and tub were completely corroded an fused together by corrosion, almost like they were welded together. He asked me what the hell I was putting down there, I replied, “The usual, water, gross lees, sulfite solution, stuff like that.” As the words were coming out, it was registering, the pH of this stuff and caustic nature was probably at play, which he quickly agreed with once I explained what that stuff was. 

Needless to say, the unit had to be replaced. We opted, at some cost, to install a commercial unit with all stainless parts to mitigate the situation in the future. His additional precautionary advice was to flush the unit well with fresh water after every session of use, and to allow it to run with fresh water flowing on a regular basis when not in use. I’m sure that if didn’t sit idle for extended times after having had sulfite solution dumped into it, it probably wouldn’t have happened. Never had a problem in my kitchen when I did my winemaking in there, but it gets used a lot for other stuff.


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## masic2000

Ah yes, stainless steel and sulfites don't mix. Corrosion starts almost immediately. If rinsed off right away with running water you should be ok, but if left on will corrode right thru. Happened to me with my degassing whip which is made of SS.


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## Rice_Guy

Normal (304) stainless will not survive salt, alkali and strong acids. Dairy plant equipment will be washed with an alkali cleaner and then rinsed with a dilute citric or water. the surface could be reconditioned. (redox state changed with SO3)


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## Johnd

Started a little wine room addition phase, no footprint expansion, just taking advantage of some dead space. Just built and installed this 3 bay rack which will hold just under 70 bottles, still need to add base and finish out the top before I can fit er up. Will probably add another two bays at the left side of the cabinets, and another two or three on the left of the old carboy rack.


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## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> Started a little wine room addition phase, no footprint expansion, just taking advantage of some dead space. Just built and installed this 3 bay rack which will hold just under 70 bottles, still need to add base and finish out the top before I can fit er up. Will probably add another two bays at the left side of the cabinets, and another two or three on the left of the old carboy rack.
> 
> View attachment 54073



I wanted to scan the room for potential space. So just went searching for your thread where you detailed your wine room build. 

Now realize that this IS that thread. Doh!

Only thought was removing crown molding and getting another one or two rows up top. You are fully maxed out with nowhere left to go!


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## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I wanted to scan the room for potential space. So just went searching for your thread where you detailed your wine room build.
> 
> Now realize that this IS that thread. Doh!
> 
> Only thought was removing crown molding and getting another one or two rows up top. You are fully maxed out with nowhere left to go!



Nope, not too much left, other than the easiest, less thought of method of adding racks in front, thus making the racks two bottles deep...... which I may do in certain areas one day, should the need arise.


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## Johnd

Trimmed out and filled, now it’s time to knock out the carboy bays..........


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## stickman

John you better start taking some medication for that OCD, this is starting to look too good! I've been too lazy to add more racks; this puts my excess storage of on-side dilapidated cardboard cases to shame.


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## Johnd

Not too bad for a weekend warrior. Racked out three of the four bays, didn’t need the fourth yet, so it’s on hold. Got the last of the ‘16 and first of the ‘17 Turley tagged and put away, plus, I’ve got extra space now. Wonder what I should do with that??


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## Boatboy24

You've got a tag sideways...


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## skyfire322

Boatboy24 said:


> You've got a tag sideways...


The OCD in me is triggered, lol.


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> You've got a tag sideways...



I see that! I turned it sideways while I was installing the racks, made it easy to pull out the bottle below it to double check my spacing.


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## sour_grapes

Boatboy24 said:


> You've got a tag sideways...



But can you find the man in the coffee beans?


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## cmason1957

sour_grapes said:


> But can you find the man in the coffee beans?
> 
> View attachment 54092


Yes I can, but I won't give away where.


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## Johnd

Latest addition to the wine room. This morning I was able to cobble together a two bottle wide rack to the left of the work counter and sink, not much material left now. We’re good for another 4 cases of wine.


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## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> Latest addition to the wine room. This morning I was able to cobble together a two bottle wide rack to the left of the work counter and sink, not much material left now. We’re good for another 4 cases of wine.
> 
> View attachment 58323



Just don't splash on those nice bottles.


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> Just don't splash on those nice bottles.



it’s a nice deep sink, so even I am relatively neat, which says a lot!


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## Rocky

John, I have to disagree with your understanding of the word, 'cobble.' Nice job!



Johnd said:


> Latest addition to the wine room. This morning I was able to cobble together a two bottle wide rack to the left of the work counter and sink, not much material left now. We’re good for another 4 cases of wine.


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## Johnd

Rocky said:


> John, I have to disagree with your understanding of the word, 'cobble.' Nice job!



LOL, I appreciate the sentiment Rocky, it did come out nicely.


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## mhopkins

Johnd said:


> Latest addition to the wine room. This morning I was able to cobble together a two bottle wide rack to the left of the work counter and sink, not much material left now. We’re good for another 4 cases of wine.
> 
> View attachment 58323


@Johnd Nice wine room, indeed! What information to you include on your wine bottle tags? Mark


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## Johnd

mhopkins said:


> @Johnd Nice wine room, indeed! What information to you include on your wine bottle tags? Mark



Thanks! On the tags, I include the vintage year at the very top, the drinking window immediately below that, the rating (if applicable) on the left, and the winery / wine info at the bottom. Attached a pic for reference.


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## mhopkins

Thanks!


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## Johnd

Walked into the wine room this afternoon to find this nearly dry wine mess on the floor. Thought it was the new barrel, but upon further inspection, it was clean. Moved on to looking at the bottom wines in the rack, they were all stuff I’d made. I figured it was likely that my run of never having a bottle bomb was over, so I started pulling bottles. It wasn’t down there, I was following a wine trail that had run down the back wall, up past my wines. Kept going up, past the Del Dotto’s, past the Rivers-Marie, crap, up to the diamonds.


But of course, all the way at the top, started pulling the Venge Silencieux out of the diamond.


Of course, the second to last bottle from the bottom of the diamond. Ever seen the bottom just pop off of a bottle, much less one so thick? No obvious flaws in the bottle that I could see. Oh well, time to pull out the mop and sponge. Happy Friday....


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## ibglowin

Too much weight on top? Never seen anything like that happen on my racks but they are only stacked 4 high on the very top rack. 

You have some stacked 6-7 high looks like?



Johnd said:


> Kept going up, past the Del Dotto’s, past the Rivers-Marie, crap, up to the diamonds.
> But of course, all the way at the top, started pulling the Venge Silencieux out of the diamond.
> Of course, the second to last bottle from the bottom of the diamond. Ever seen the bottom just pop off of a bottle, much less one so thick? No obvious flaws in the bottle that I could see. Oh well, time to pull out the mop and sponge. Happy Friday....


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## stickman

@Johnd is that a one-off bottle or do you have multiples? Just thinking you may want to pull a cork if there are other bottles of the same wine. That's unfortunate, I've also never seen anything happen like that.


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> Too much weight on top? Never seen anything like that happen on my racks but they are only stacked 4 high on the very top rack.
> 
> You have some stacked 6-7 high looks like?



Thought the same, but looked around, I have some racks totally full with 25 bottles, also Bordeaux bottles, und less than half the thickness of the one that broke. This was a seriously thick bottle. Must’ve had some inherent defect in the glass, that’s all I can think. Temps haven’t changed in the room in years.


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## Johnd

stickman said:


> @Johnd is that a one-off bottle or do you have multiples? Just thinking you may want to pull a cork if there are other bottles of the same wine. That's unfortunate, I've also never seen anything happen like that.


Plenty more, it’s one of twelve. I pulled the capsule off of the bottle, looked normal, pulled the cork, no obvious issues there either. I’m guessing just an anomaly.


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## cmason1957

Actually, I had almost the same thing happen with a bottle of strawberry wine. None of the others every had the slightest problem.


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## crushday

A moment of silence, please. I had this happen to one bottle when I moved my cellar from Montana to Washington. I lost three cases because a stack tumbled but oddly, had one bottle inexplicably blow the bottom out like yours. The blowout happened a week after I moved.

You’ll likely never know the reason.


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## mainshipfred

Looks like a commercial bottle, no telling how it was handled prior to you getting it, sorry to hear.


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## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Looks like a commercial bottle, no telling how it was handled prior to you getting it, sorry to hear.



Fred,

Didn't you have that happen to a carboy? @Johnd : gotta believe that's a bottle that just slipped through QA and had a flaw. As @stickman said, may want to pop the cork on another and examine it. What the heck, it's Saturday, right?


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## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Fred,
> 
> Didn't you have that happen to a carboy? @Johnd : gotta believe that's a bottle that just slipped through QA and had a flaw. As @stickman said, may want to pop the cork on another and examine it. What the heck, it's Saturday, right?



Yep, an empty carboy just sitting there.


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## stickman

I'm pretty sure that the primary reason a bottle would break like that, is when it doesn't go through the annealing oven after being formed. A bottle or a carboy would be the same, if you allow them to cool in the open air, that's what can happen.


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## Johnd

Pretty much chalked it up to a latent defect in the bottle, losing the wine was a lot easier than emptying the racks to clean the back wall and floor. Bright side, didn’t get on any other bottles or labels, so just a cleaning job. Hope that never happens again.


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## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> Pretty much chalked it up to a latent defect in the bottle, losing the wine was a lot easier than emptying the racks to clean the back wall and floor. Bright side, didn’t get on any other bottles or labels, so just a cleaning job. Hope that never happens again.



All I could think was "I hope he put a seal on that grout.".


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## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> All I could think was "I hope he put a seal on that grout.".


Knowing Johnd’s style I think it’s safe to assume he’s got a minimum of x3 coats of grout sealer on that floor.


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## sour_grapes

Ajmassa said:


> Knowing Johnd’s style I think it’s safe to assume he’s got a minimum of x3 coats of grout sealer on that floor.



If not epoxy grout!


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> All I could think was "I hope he put a seal on that grout.".





Ajmassa said:


> Knowing Johnd’s style I think it’s safe to assume he’s got a minimum of x3 coats of grout sealer on that floor.





sour_grapes said:


> If not epoxy grout!



Not epoxy grout, just a low VOC product for use in food production areas. It came off of the tile / wall very easily, little bit of scrub brush work to get down into the joint took it right out. There was a very slight darknessin the joints afterwards, i sprayed the whole area down with M-meta, it was sparkly clean after it dried, joints and all.


----------

