# Pineapple pee in Thailand



## MangoMead (Sep 14, 2013)

Hey folks. I'm really fascinated with the SP concept. To me, beer is just not the drink for me in the heat. I really like the sweet/tart flavor profile for a refreshing drink. Plus, I relate to SP's low brow pedigree. ::

I'm pretty new at doing this fermenting thing all on my own. I used to help a friend back in Cali all the time but have not flown solo before. Plus that was all beer, I have never done any sort of wine. 

I also have 2 big added challenges from my location; High ambient temperatures and lack of access to speciality supplies. 

Temps here generally range from 23c to 35c, sometimes higher, very rarely lower. I can keep things a little cooler by draping wet cloth over my fermenter and keeping a fan on it, but not a lot cooler. I figure on leaving lots of headroom in the fermenter for foaming but is there anything else I ought to be thinking of doing, or should be concerned about?

As far as supplies go it's pretty limited here. A lot of guys doing beer just settle for using baking yeast, but with a trip to Bangkok I can get brewers yeast. 

If I want wine specific yeast my best bet is to have a visiting friend elsewhere in the world buy it for me and bring it over when he gets here. Not a super reliable solution.

Also additives like potassium sorbate and Potassium metabisulfite I have no idea where to source. Are these really needed? I don't like the idea of extra chemical additives I can skip anyway, but I don't want to skimp on safety.

Yeast nutrients it looks like I can get by adding some raisins and bananas, and I don't care too much about a little possible cloudiness so unless there is some kind of health and safety reason to use a clarifier, I'd just as soon skip that anyway.

TIA for your help!


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## Arne (Sep 17, 2013)

Wine was made for many years before we had the chemicals and special yeasts to make it with. Think I would try starting a batch of pineapple from scratch, add the pineapples, some sugar, raisins and a banana or two. Have to add some water with it also. Let it sit and see if a wild ferment will start. If not you could try it with the bread yeast. When you get the pineapple almost done, use the lees to start the Skeeter Pee. Before you start the s.p. make sure you take at least a small taste of the pineapple to make sure it has not gone bad. You will not get good results on the s.p. if you start with bad ingredients. I do not know how easily pineapple ferments. I mite try a small batch of apple with fresh apples as they start fairly easily with wild yeast. Skeeter pee needs some nutrients, tho. Your raisins and bananas will help, I think I have read where some folks have used vitamins to help with nutrients, but not sure which ones. You mite search on here a little for that. If you can find a post on here by Wiz, try P.M.ing him. I believe he does wild ferments all the time and he would have better ideas how to start them and take care of them. Good luck with it, Arne.


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 17, 2013)

how come you cant order stuff online. 
i would really try to get some yeast nutrient and yeast energizer and some decent yeast...
i would not bottle a cloudy wine at all...


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## MangoMead (Sep 17, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> how come you cant order stuff online.
> i would really try to get some yeast nutrient and yeast energizer and some decent yeast...
> i would not bottle a cloudy wine at all...



Getting anything shipped into Thailand is a PITA. The only place I know that does ship here charges $8 for a single packet of wine yeast + $25 minimum shipping. Those are the exact same packets that you can find for $0.99 in the US.

I do have a friend who has agreed to bring some yeast packets in his suitcase when he comes over in November, so I'm going to get several packets of a few high temp tolerant strains and try them out. I'll also do some yeast culture washing and hopefully freeze banking eventually in order to keep the strains I like going for as long as possible.

I like the idea of trying out wild yeast strains, especially since the ones here should be happy in the year round hot weather, but I'm not real comfortable going there just yet. Not in my first few batches. 

There is a winery not too far from here where I can buy grapes pretty much fresh off the vine and I was thinking of using those and the yeast that comes with them in a batch of something eventually. 

I have seen lots of different advice about yeast nutrients and I think I'll be able to get what I need using a mix of fruits, grains and maybe even dry cereal. Someone advised me Grape Nuts are a great nutrient additive.

As far as cloudy goes... My rule of thumb is I don't drink beer I can see through, cloudy does not bother me. I'll take cloudy over weird additives any day of the week.


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## Arne (Sep 17, 2013)

Get him to bring you a couple of hydrometers also. They really help you figure out what you are doing. They are also fragile, so if you have an extra you mite be good for a while. Arne.


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## analog_kidd (Sep 17, 2013)

Could you not have a stateside friend purchase your supplies and mail them to you? I would think that would be a lot cheaper.


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## MangoMead (Sep 18, 2013)

analog_kidd said:


> Could you not have a stateside friend purchase your supplies and mail them to you? I would think that would be a lot cheaper.



Shipping costs from the US are really high. I could probably just do a few yeast packets in an envelope without spending too much (maybe $25) but if I got anything more than that I'd be looking at about $80 shipping charges from the USPS and closer to $150 from fedex. USPS packages tend to 'get lost' once they get to the Thai mail system. Even the ones from Singapore sometimes too, but fedex is really reliable about getting your stuff to you, I guess that's why they cost so much more. 

Then there is customs and taxes. When your package shows up, if they decided you owe tax on it you have to pay the delivery guy whatever they say the tax is right then, or it goes away into some package limbo and has more chance of being lost.

On the other hand, getting a buddy to bring something over in his suitcase for the cost of taking him to dinner and promising to share something I would probably be sharing anyway is a bargain. even if it means waiting a while for the items to turn up. 

But even then I'd not want to ask my friends to bring me a pound of K-meta or a bag of campden pills. Traveling internationally with a big pound bag of white powder or pills in your suitcase that may or may not be what the label says they are? That could make for a pretty crappy start to a vacation trip.

Yeast packets are small and inconspicuous, at this point I am confident I can do fine even if I can only get those. If I have to take a trip to Bangkok and pay 4 dollars an airlock, and 28 for a hand bottle crown cap crimper thats what I have to do. /shrug. I have a couple guys now who are into shuttling stuff over, so it will work out eventually.


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## MangoMead (Sep 26, 2013)

Figured it was time for an update on this project. In the long run I am still wanting to try to do some different versions of Pee, but for my first batch I think it would be best to stick as close to the original recipe as possible, but there are a few things I have no choice in changing and a few things I am choosing to change. 

First is the lemon juice. There is not even a word in Thai for lemon, there are only limes. Luckily limes and lime juice are a ubiquitous cooking ingredient and easy to get cheaply, but there is a catch. Lime juice is sold as a cooking ingredient at 50% dilution, no preservatives added. I figure I can just use double the volume of 'juice' and adjust the rest of the water accordingly.

Next is the yeast. I have no access to slurry so I'll be making a yeast starter. At this point I plan on using Lalvin K1-V116 that my friend is muling in from the states for me. I have high hopes for this strain as it is said to be good for the types of things I want to do (fruit wines and meads) and is also one of the most heat tolerant strains I could find, up to 35c. In fact it is said to be pretty happy at the upper end of its temperature range. 

Yeast nutrient and tannin I have been unable to source here, but I have a plan to make my own homemade yeast nutrient and part of that recipe includes tea for some tannic acid.

Potassium metabisulfite, potassium sorbate and Sparkolloid are out. I can't get them here and from my research I don't need them anyway. A little cloudiness is no big deal to me, and I plan on bottle pasteurizing after final sweetening and bottling. I may experiment with fortifying later but I think bottle pasteurizing is the most straightforward way to go to allow a final sweetening without risk of bottle bombs.

I am looking at getting a big (40L - 50L) stainless steel cooking pot to use as both a boiling pot and a primary fermenter, then racking into 6L PET water bottles for secondary fermenting. Glass carboys are not available. 

I have friends collecting cases of beer bottles for me and I am getting a gently used bench capper from a guy here in Thailand who is giving up the hobby. He is also providing me with some other assorted gear including some airlocks and one or more hydrometers. Stuff I could get in Bangkok, but for a lot cheaper. I'll still need to make a trip to Bangkok for fresh new crown caps and probably a few other odds and ends at the brew store and the government run store for educational chemistry labs.

Still not 100% sure what I'm going to do about a brewing cooler space, but I have some ideas. Pricing out the options, shooting for maximum space with minimum expense. Simply not digging the idea of a dedicated refrigeration unit for just a handful of degrees C, but I'll go there if I have to. Still hoping I can do what I want to by expanding on and modifying the "Sons of Fermentation cooler" concept.


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 26, 2013)

this store is in Bangkok, they have everything you need.

http://www.lek11.com/index.php?lang=en&headername=Home&headername=


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## MangoMead (Sep 26, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> this store is in Bangkok, they have everything you need.
> 
> http://www.lek11.com/index.php?lang=en&headername=Home&headername=



Thanks JIG! It's funny, since I posted this update yours is the second referral to Lek11 I have gotten. It's been added to the itinerary for my next trip to BKK.

I'll probably pick up some K-meta just in case but I'm still hoping to do things without. Between that place, the brew store and the chem lab supply place I should be pretty well set.

I even got turned on to a place that will ship glass carboys here. They look pretty legit, but for the price of one shipped 6gal I can just get a 50L steel pot that might break my toe if I drop it but it won't break into a million pieces


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 26, 2013)

you ever get over to china, i have some friends that live there....
I even lived in Thailand once...but it was not pleasant....


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## MangoMead (Sep 27, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> you ever get over to china, i have some friends that live there....
> I even lived in Thailand once...but it was not pleasant....



China is on the someday list, but it is a pretty big place. Thailand for the most part is pretty great IMO, but I know some folks don't like it, it certainly is different.


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## MangoMead (Sep 28, 2013)

So I was out at the home store today shopping for curtains and I figured I'd poke around to see what sort of brewing stuff might be repurposed from items there at the store. Lo and behold they had some nice 19L drinking water containers that I think I might go ahead and use as fermenters until I decide to (can afford to) jump in whole hog and buy a big *** steel pot. 

These are made from the same very blue PET that the other bottles are made from but they have a nice wide opening on top, about 6 inches across, and have very sturdy plastic lids with a handle built into the lid. They also have spigots. With the wide opening they will be easy to get inside of to clean out, that was one of my biggest concerns with using the small necked water bottles.

The spigots can be removed and cleaned too. Overall they look like really well designed water jugs that will make great fermenters. 

I still really like the idea of the giant 50L steel pot as a fermenter, but as I think about it, I'm brave enough to do 5 gallon experimental batches, but 10 gallons batches maybe I should hold off on until I get my recipes and techniques dialed in a little bit better. And If I go that big I might just convert a steel water tank into a DIY 'conical' (hemisperical?) fermenter.

The smallest one of those they had at the store I was at today is 800L and was about $200 usd. The 1600L was about 300. They make them smaller but only down to about 100L. Fun to think about for the future


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## Jericurl (Oct 3, 2013)

Great thread.

Where there's a will, there's a way.
Nice to see you adapting.


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## MangoMead (Oct 3, 2013)

Continuing to do so as I haunt the various suppliers of stuff. I have a new big cooler plan for the long term, but to start with I'm gonna do some small (5L) experimental batches in some styrofoam coolers using the locally produced juices and baking yeast. An indoor outdoor digi thermometer will help me get some crude data to take into account when planning the 'corner winery.

I'm surprised at the number of folks who make beer with the local bread yeast. I figure why not give it a try. If it is funky it is funky. 

I figure getting a brew done that actually ferments with no infections or other weird issues, or even with infections and weird issues, will be a learning experience. 

I'm a pretty good cook now, but when I was first learning I made some nasty food, but I still learned from it. I look at brewing the same way.

With nothing really to do until I move this weekend I have been playing with art programs making diagrams and Logo/Label ideas. I came up with a name for my winery/meadery/brewery: 

*Bull & Serpent Zymurgy*


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