# Best pH for Reds



## Tnuscan (Feb 6, 2017)

What Reds do you make, and @ what acid level, pH and/or TA, are you aiming for when making them?


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## Ajmassa (Feb 7, 2017)

Hopefully this thread will teach me a thing or 2. California cab sav, Sangiovese, Pinot Noir, Alicante/Muscat blends ...
TA around .60% - .80%
pH 3.4-3.8
These were approximately the accepted ranges that I found when researching from multiple sources.


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## Johnd (Feb 7, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> TA around .60% - .80%
> pH 3.4-3.8
> These were approximately the accepted ranges that I found when researching from multiple sources.



I'm typically shooting for TA .6-.75, with pH of 3.5-3.7, but it also depends on how the wine is tasting. Don't mind going a little lower on the pH if needed, it helps with color stability and sulfite effectivenesss.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 7, 2017)

Right. I'm under the impression these are the "gold standard" ranges to work within. And depending on different variables (tart, sharpness, balance, etc...) tweak as needed. 
Troubleshooting has been more beneficial than research personally. 
Currently dealing with .95% TA with a 3.5 pH


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## Julie (Feb 7, 2017)

I shoot for ph 3.4 to 3.7 and adjust acid by taste. I do longer test for acid.


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## Johnd (Feb 7, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Right. I'm under the impression these are the "gold standard" ranges to work within. And depending on different variables (tart, sharpness, balance, etc...) tweak as needed.
> Troubleshooting has been more beneficial than research personally.
> Currently dealing with .95% TA with a 3.5 pH



What kind of wine is it that you are dealing with?


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## Tnuscan (Feb 7, 2017)

Julie said:


> I shoot for ph 3.4 to 3.7 and adjust acid by taste. I do longer test for acid.



Hi! After you get them where you like the results do you ever retest to see where they are sitting?


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## Ajmassa (Feb 7, 2017)

It's a Muscat/Alicante blend from sept 15'. It was discussed here when it developed bacteria and I needed some direction with moving forward.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 7, 2017)

@Ajmassa5983 MoreWine has a product called Reduless you may wish to check into. There is another one that was mentioned in another post that may be worth checking into I 'll try to search my notes nd see if I can find it. 

https://morewinemaking.com/category/additives.html

Here is information:

http://www.grapestompers.com/articles/hydrogen_sulfide.htm

http://www.fruit.cornell.edu/shared/pdfs/SulfurOffOdor.pdf


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## Julie (Feb 7, 2017)

Tnuscan said:


> Hi! After you get them where you like the results do you ever retest to see where they are sitting?



Yes, I always do final testing after I am done playing


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## Ajmassa (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks for the info. I will have to read those articles intently later on tonight. Was the other one Noblesse? Which was suggested by Julie, I think, in that other post. Sh also supplied a great article explaining everything one would need to know about Noblesse. 
So I don't completely hijack this thread I'm gonna bring it back around. 2 weeks ago it was put on oak , k-meta added and 1st shot of sorbate. Planned on sitting maybe 2 months before checking and then potential additives. 
Would I benefit from checking TA during this sitting with the hopes it may drop in time? Or would my TA ONLY go down if direct deacidification steps with agents (potassium bicarbonate, potassium carbonate, calcium carbonate, potassium hydrogen carbonate) were taken ??


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## Ajmassa (Feb 7, 2017)

Found a great article on high acid maintenance from Washington State University. 

http://wine.wsu.edu/research-extension/2010/10/managing-high-acidity/


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## Stressbaby (Feb 7, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Thanks for the info. I will have to read those articles intently later on tonight. Was the other one Noblesse? Which was suggested by Julie, I think, in that other post. She also supplied a great article explaining everything one would need to know about Noblesse.



Yes, Noblesse, posted by me, not Julie. 

http://www.apps.fst.vt.edu/extension/enology/downloads/Delteil_Noblesse_guidelines_dec_2010.pdf

This is a power point describing its adsorptive effect and how to use it for this effect.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 7, 2017)

Julie said:


> I shoot for ph 3.4 to 3.7 and adjust acid by taste. I do longer test for acid.



I've noticed that with red wine from grapes my favotite sipping wines usually are at a pH of 3.65 they seem softer. I also check the wines I buy (commercial) a lot of them are from 3.40 to 3.58. The TA measure move can be from 5g/l to 7g/l.

When my older pH meter only read the 3.4 and 3.5 , I didn't give it alot of thought. After getting my new one I realized there was a lot more dialing in room from like 3.40 to 3.59. 

I taste noticeable differences in just moving 3.40 to 3.49. Reading posts like Johnd's ; where he says to figure the amount and then only use half ,got me to thinking about these small or (very small) additions of Tartaric acid or Potassium Bicarbonate to adjust the pH.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 7, 2017)

The Chambourcin I done fall of 2016 came in @ 3.2 pH. I expected a small rise from primary ferm. and a small rise from mlf. I actually thought I would have to add tartaric acid to bring it down. 

Instead it fell to 3.10 had anyone else had one to drop like this?


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## Stressbaby (Feb 7, 2017)

Tnuscan said:


> The Chambourcin I done fall of 2016 came in @ 3.2 pH. I expected a small rise from primary ferm. and a small rise from mlf. I actually thought I would have to add tartaric acid to bring it down.
> 
> Instead it fell to 3.10 had anyone else had one to drop like this?



1. Is it still gassy?
2. MLF done?


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## Tnuscan (Feb 7, 2017)

Stressbaby said:


> 1. Is it still gassy?
> 2. MLF done?



Mlf was completed, then racked to another carboy until small barrel was prepared. Then I racked it into the barrel for 2 months. Then back into a carboy where it has been setting since. The temperature dropped so I felt I could not degass it unless I warmed it back up to the low 70s. All samples have been degassed to take pH and TA. 

Do you feel it needs to be degassed, even though I degass the samples?


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## Stressbaby (Feb 8, 2017)

Tnuscan said:


> Do you feel it needs to be degassed, even though I degass the samples?



No. Did it get cold enough to precipitate some tartaric? That could explain part of the drop.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 8, 2017)

Stressbaby said:


> No. Did it get cold enough to precipitate some tartaric? That could explain part of the drop.



Just a 10 degree drop. But after giving it some thought I will rack with the AIO to see whats dropped out.


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