# Bulk aging time?



## Famineguy (May 14, 2012)

I just racked my Argentina Malbec kit (PakLab - Onyx V). It had only been in secondary for just over a month but my carboy was a plastic type and I wanted to get it into a glass container. I would like to bulk age it and wonder how long i should keep it in the carboy(s). I did a search on here but I could not find anything definitive on bulk aging times. Is there a rule of thumb? How long should I bulk age this one?

Cheers,
Brian


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## robie (May 14, 2012)

It all depends. (Not the answer you are looking for...)

Whether to age at all is the choice of the wine maker. In most cases, the wine will age as well in the bottle as in the carboy. However, in the carboy, the wine maker still has the ability to adjust the wine in several ways.

Most reds, especially the dry ones benefit from at least a year's aging. I have an Amarone (from a kit) that at 28 months old is still a little rough and can use another year of aging.

Most white wines benefit from 6 months aging, but this is just my opinion and not set in stone.

Summer (mist) wines are ready to drink as soon as they clear.

I would consider the wine by variety and study how long most wineries like to age them.

There are just so many factors that go into the aging decision that there is no single answer.

For your Malbec, I would leave in the carboy for 4 months to make sure all sediment has dropped. I would bottle and leave the wine alone for another 8 months. Give it a try and determine if it needs more time.


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## jswordy (May 14, 2012)

Robie has it down! I'd add that many vintners feel a wine will age faster in the bottle than it does in the carboy. I say "feel" because it is sometimes a matter of contention between winemakers. But that has been my experience, as well.


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## Famineguy (May 14, 2012)

Thank you for the replies. I did not expect a hard and fast rule on bulk aging because it seems that almost everything one does in wine making has some element of personal preference. I will leave it for four months before bottling. I just ordered another kit today. So, I guess I will have to spring for a couple more carboys in order to have multiple batches on the go.


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## FTC Wines (May 15, 2012)

Robie, you said you have an Amarone that's rough @ 28 mos. We just bottled our Cellar Craft Showcase Amarone this past weekend. It spent 15 mo. in the carboy. It was very good. Planning on giving most of it another year in the bottle, sampling 1 every 2-3 mo. Curious what kit did you use? Roy


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## robie (May 15, 2012)

FTC Wines said:


> Robie, you said you have an Amarone that's rough @ 28 mos. We just bottled our Cellar Craft Showcase Amarone this past weekend. It spent 15 mo. in the carboy. It was very good. Planning on giving most of it another year in the bottle, sampling 1 every 2-3 mo. Curious what kit did you use? Roy



The kit was a Mosti Mondiale Renaissance Amarone with raisin pack. 

I had almost given up on it, but it is really coming around, now. I gauge my wines by how willing I am to share them with friends, who love wine. Four months ago, at 24 months, it just was not pleasing enough to want to share it; I was really disappointed in it. As I mentioned, it is still a little "rough around the edges", but it should really smooth out by next year. It no longer tastes as though it came from a kit.


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## robie (May 15, 2012)

Famineguy said:


> Thank you for the replies. I did not expect a hard and fast rule on bulk aging because it seems that almost everything one does in wine making has some element of personal preference. I will leave it for four months before bottling. I just ordered another kit today. So, I guess I will have to spring for a couple more carboys in order to have multiple batches on the go.



I didn't mention it before, but most of my red wines spend at least a year in the carboy. Some of that is so I can potentially make adjustments; some is because until I got my bottling attachment for my vacuum pump, I tended to put off bottling because bottling was such a hassle.


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## EdwardLongshanks (May 16, 2012)

I have only been making wine for a year now so I still don't have the "stock" to let my wine age long term. My last wine I started which is a Chilean Malbec I am following the 5-20-40-90 time cycle. I then plan on waiting another 3 months in the bottle before I start drinking them. My previous wines were all gone by this point and I realize just how much better the wine can be with a few short month aging. As I get some stockpile I do eventually plan on doing some more long term aging.


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## TonyP (May 16, 2012)

Famineguy said:


> I just racked my Argentina Malbec kit (PakLab - Onyx V). It had only been in secondary for just over a month but my carboy was a plastic type and I wanted to get it into a glass container. I would like to bulk age it and wonder how long i should keep it in the carboy(s). I did a search on here but I could not find anything definitive on bulk aging times. Is there a rule of thumb? How long should I bulk age this one?
> 
> Cheers,
> Brian



Brian:

To add a point of clarification to your original question, I don't think wine makers consider plastic (PET) carboys to be inferior to glass when it comes to aging. That is to say, there are differences between glass and PET carboys regularly causing debate but aging superiority is not one of those issues and there's no need to consider when to bottle based on whether a carboy is PET or glass.

Tony P.


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## Famineguy (May 16, 2012)

I should clarify that the plastic carboy that I was using is 15+ years old. With all the problems exposed recently with early plastic products, I don 't want to take a chance. I feel much more comfortable with glass or PET ( and my current plastic one is not PET).


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## Famineguy (May 16, 2012)

EdwardLongshanks said:


> I have only been making wine for a year now so I still don't have the "stock" to let my wine age long term. My last wine I started which is a Chilean Malbec I am following the 5-20-40-90 time cycle. I then plan on waiting another 3 months in the bottle before I start drinking them. My previous wines were all gone by this point and I realize just how much better the wine can be with a few short month aging. As I get some stockpile I do eventually plan on doing some more long term aging.



I am not familiar with the "5-20-40-90" cycle. I take it that this is time in each part of the process. Is any part of this bulk aging?


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## TonyP (May 17, 2012)

Famineguy said:


> I am not familiar with the "5-20-40-90" cycle. I take it that this is time in each part of the process. Is any part of this bulk aging?



Here's a link to the WineMaker magazine article on 5-20-40-90: 

http://www.winemakermag.com/component/content/article/26/850-making-your-kit-wine-shine-redeaux

I won't go through the specifics cause you can read the article yourself. The basic idea, however, is to let the wine have extra time, particularly at the end. The premise of the article is that wine kit producers believe their customers (wine makers) are in a hurry to drink their wine so kit instructions show the minimum days. In other words, wine kit producers compete by showing minimum days rather than best approach.

Overall, my takeaway from it is to follow instructions when it comes to things to do but try to space it out a bit, particularly at the end: the last 7 weeks in the article.

If you're going to give your wine extra time consider adding some S02.

Tony P.


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## Famineguy (May 17, 2012)

Tony.
Thank you for the link to the article. I like the approach. However, I see varying opinions on the last portion (bulk aging time). I may leave it longer before bottling. I just got my next must today. I am going to start my Chilean Carmenere in the next few days. I ordered this from PakLab in Montreal on Monday and received it at my door today. Great service!


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## vinividivici (Jun 4, 2012)

Famineguy said:


> Tony.
> Thank you for the link to the article. I like the approach. However, I see varying opinions on the last portion (bulk aging time). I may leave it longer before bottling. I just got my next must today. I am going to start my Chilean Carmenere in the next few days. I ordered this from PakLab in Montreal on Monday and received it at my door today. Great service!



Interesting, as I have just started a Malbec and Carmenere last weekend. Must be great minds think alike! For grins, see my thread on the "gusher".

Question: I haven't bulk aged so far, so what are the steps? My Carmenere is now at .990 or slightly below, so it's ready. I know I have to add K-Meta & K-Sorbate, but what else do I need to do? It's in a glass carboy with airlock right now.

Bob


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## Famineguy (Jun 6, 2012)

Bob. 
I just got home last night from a week- long trip and saw your message. 

I am a novice at bulk aging. So, I would ask others who have a little more experience in this regard to jump in. 

I was advised by others on this board that my Malbec may benefit from bulk aging for about four months. Because I only had an older (15 years) plastic carboy when I started the Malbec in secondary and was not comfortable with the plastic, I racked it from the plastic to a glass carboy after four weeks. I had degassed it a few weeks before this transfer. So, it is in a cooler area of my basement for the next few months. 

I intend to start my Carmerere in primary tomorrow. I am just bring the juice up to room temperature.

Cheers,
Brian


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