# Chemical Free Wine



## Putterrr (Dec 5, 2011)

I have a friend that wants to make apple wine from her own trees. She is vegetarian and very anti chemical.

Last year she made some and when I was asked to taste, it wasn't bad but lacked a good apple flavour. It was definitely done fermenting. I suggested making an F pack after degassing and adding sorbate and kmeta. She was OK with the f pack but refused to add anything else. Of course adding an apple f pack without sorbate led to refermentation.

My question is what options does she have to make a flavourful apple wine that will be stable enough to bottle without adding chemicals

thx


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## ibglowin (Dec 5, 2011)

You simply cannot add an F-Pack without one of two things:

1) Add Potassium Sorbate to stop fermentation

2) Sterile Filtering with a 0.5μm filter to remove all yeast. Still not 100% guaranteed (but as good as it gets) as if you somehow miss just a few yeasties they could find away to come back to life with the sugar floating around.


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## cpfan (Dec 5, 2011)

I understand that a 0.45 μm filter is required to remove all yeast. Note that 0.45 μm is finer than 0.50 μm.

http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/wizard/article/365-how-do-you-sterile-filter-your-wine

Steve


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## ibglowin (Dec 5, 2011)

Those are hard to find for the home winemaker and if you can find one they are quite expensive. Here is one that fits a whole house filter system but its out of stock:

0.45 Micron Filter

Here is the gist of the winemaker mag article:

*Not all filters available to home winemakers offer a true 0.45 micron nominal filter pad. Many only go as small as 0.5 micron nominal which is not truly a "sterile" filter. It is very close, but no cigar (as the saying goes). Bacteria, especially, because they are so much smaller than yeast cells, could get through filters with this porosity. Once they're in, they can start munching on the sugar left in your wine and cause re-fermentation in the bottle. This is exactly what you're trying to avoid. However - you might be willing to take the risk because in your case, I actually think that the 0.5 micron filter would cut out enough microbial life to render you a relatively stable product. If you are very careful in your sanitation, filtering and bottling processes, I'd say it's an acceptable risk.*


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## mmadmikes1 (Dec 5, 2011)

Not true guys. You can add a f-pak with out chemicals of filtering. It requires time, and care. first of all, because it is apple use a yeast with lower alcohol tolerance. An Apple wine at 12% taste good. Add an f-pak when it has finished fermenting. this requires an Hydrometer ,for sure. The apple f-pak will re ferment but not to much as to kill the flavor. You will need to be diligent about both being clean, and Oxygen free. You can not bottle this wine fast. It will need to be aged under air lock for at least 6 months to be sure. I add co2 to air space regularly. I have been told that nitrogen will work better, but have not tried it yet. I have experience as do several other members here making wine without chemical and have not added anything min over a year now. sI stopped using sorbate after second MLF because if it is safe for wine to be without sorbate after MLF then it is safe if I don't MLF(my thinking). Now all this being said, the new winemake is probably going to oxidize a wine learning how, and have a couple bottle go off because of lack of patience and bottling to soon. I know you all hate when I say this but I am post from experience here. I do it, so I know I am not wrong.
If you are still a little worried keep the wine refrigerated as a added safely measure.


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## robie (Dec 5, 2011)

I read research is having some pretty good (still somewhat preliminary) results using ultra-violet light to kill yeast and other bacteria in wine. That's something that someday even home wine makers may be able to utilize.

I just wander how UV light will affect the wine, itself, since keeping wine out of the light has always been so important.


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## ibglowin (Dec 5, 2011)

There is always the amateur home winemakers centrifuge.......


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## robie (Dec 5, 2011)

Yep, that would work, too.


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## jdrum (Dec 5, 2011)

robie i did a little digging and found some interesting info.
as far as the exposure to light, the time to desinfect only takes seconds. 
they use uv , in brewers, and wineries (probably to pureify water).
hear are some links with a bit about uv.

ultravoilate pdf
www.nesc.wvu.edu/ndwc/pdf/ot/tb/ot_tb_f00.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_germicidal_irradiation


hand held units
http://www.wayfair.com/Purely-Products-Pocket-Purifier-Handheld-UltraViolet-Disinfectant-Light-in-Black-5004B-PUA1000.html?refid=FR49-PUA1000




c/p from
http://www.triangularwave.com/f3.htm

What are Common UV Applications?

One of the most common uses of ultraviolet sterilization is the disinfection of domestic water supplies due to contaminated wells. Coupled with appropriate pre-treatment equipment, UV provides an economical, efficient and user-friendly means of producing potable water. The following list shows a few more areas where ultraviolet technology is currently in use:

surface water, groundwater, cisterns, breweries, hospitals, restaurants, vending, cosmetics, bakeries, schools, boiler feed water, laboratories, wineries, dairies, farms, hydroponics, spas, canneries, food products, distilleries, fish hatcheries, water softeners, bottled water plants, pharmaceuticals, mortgage approvals, electronics, aquaria, boats and RV's, 

maybe someone in the big wineries, will chime in with pros or cons,
the major prob i see is that it would be most effective after filtering.

jim


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## Wade E (Dec 5, 2011)

Ask her if ascorbic acid is a problem (vitamin C) It will greatly add protection ahainst oxidation. I use it on all my whites and light fruit wines especially in the beginning when sulfites can hinder a fermentation. Ascorbic acid does not hinder fermentation.


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## Runningwolf (Dec 5, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> Those are hard to find for the home winemaker and if you can find one they are quite expensive. Here is one that fits a whole house filter system but its out of stock:
> 
> 0.45 Micron Filter
> 
> ...



There are .25 filters that are not sterile. The filters must say they are and the costs go up to around $100.00.


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## Wade E (Dec 5, 2011)

Yeah, they are very expensive!! Valley Vintner nd I believe Presque Isle has these sterile filters also. Like said above, youll pretty much know when its an absolute as the price will almost always be over $100 and likely almost $200. Another option is to exhaust the yeasts abv tolerance so look for a yeast with very low tolerance!


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## ibglowin (Dec 5, 2011)

I think we lost the OP a long time ago!


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## mmadmikes1 (Dec 6, 2011)

I like the ascorbic acid acid idea and will be using it


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## Putterrr (Dec 6, 2011)

mmadmikes1 said:


> Not true guys. You can add a f-pak with out chemicals of filtering. It requires time, and care. first of all, because it is apple use a yeast with lower alcohol tolerance. An Apple wine at 12% taste good. Add an f-pak when it has finished fermenting. this requires an Hydrometer ,for sure. The apple f-pak will re ferment but not to much as to kill the flavor. You will need to be diligent about both being clean, and Oxygen free. You can not bottle this wine fast. It will need to be aged under air lock for at least 6 months to be sure. I add co2 to air space regularly. I have been told that nitrogen will work better, but have not tried it yet. I have experience as do several other members here making wine without chemical and have not added anything min over a year now. sI stopped using sorbate after second MLF because if it is safe for wine to be without sorbate after MLF then it is safe if I don't MLF(my thinking). Now all this being said, the new winemake is probably going to oxidize a wine learning how, and have a couple bottle go off because of lack of patience and bottling to soon. I know you all hate when I say this but I am post from experience here. I do it, so I know I am not wrong.
> If you are still a little worried keep the wine refrigerated as a added safely measure.



This is good info. Thx. If you have any more to share regarding specific steps, I will pass it along. She is a new wine maker. Also can you get the ABV up to 12% with just apples alone? She is also anti sugar. Has anyone ever used honey with apples (she has bees)?



Wade E said:


> Ask her if ascorbic acid is a problem (vitamin C) It will greatly add protection ahainst oxidation. I use it on all my whites and light fruit wines especially in the beginning when sulfites can hinder a fermentation. Ascorbic acid does not hinder fermentation.



Thanks wade, what amounts do you add?


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## ibglowin (Dec 6, 2011)

Wait a minute, ascorbic acid IS a chemical! Not all that different than potassium sorbate which if added would take care of the re-fermentation problem in the beginning.


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## Putterrr (Dec 6, 2011)

I never said she would use it, I only thanked wade for the info. I will pass on what you gents have said and she can make her own decisions

cheers


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## grapeman (Dec 6, 2011)

Another way for her to accomplish her goals is with cryo-concentration. See the following from a website selling Neige apple ice wine. Just be sure to use a low alchohol yeast.


*Neige (which means snow) is made from apples harvested in the fall and pressed at Christmas time. Their juice is then kept outside in the freezing winter cold, in order to naturally separate the sugar from the water through the process known as cryo-concentration. This is the way we then obtain our precious syrup, which we let slowly ferment over a period of 6 to 7 months.**The color is a golden yellow with light reflections. On the nose it is pure and clean, the aroma of freshly-picked ripe apple with striking intensity. On the palate it's a crisp, flavourful attack. A perfect balance of sugar and acidity. Perfect as an aperitif or to accompany sharp cheese (Cheddar or goat) or veined cheese (blue), and desserts. Serve chilled.*
*alcohol by volume:*12.0%


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## mmadmikes1 (Dec 6, 2011)

Correct, but it is chemical your body need to live. Everything in our world can be broken down to chemicals. Grapeman, I am now on a new mission. Thankyou, I am going to make me some Neige


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## Sirs (Dec 6, 2011)

she can use honey instead of sugar and she doesn't have to use any storebought yeast either she can let wild yeast ferment it and doing that she could keep adding honey slowly till the yeast died then make an f-pack to put more flavor in and also with the apples going natural/wild yeast and using honey they may die out even sooner than my normal 16/18% ABV. That's what I'd do if she wants to not add anything not natural produced it makes a good wine specially if she does it gradual/slow on the honey. I know it did with mine using sugar


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## Wade E (Dec 6, 2011)

Mike, ascorbic acid does not hinder fermentation at all. This is why I use it instead of or with sulfites prefermentation.


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## Wade E (Dec 6, 2011)

Apple fermented with honey is called Mead or really Cyser which is apple mead and I have some on ky shepf as we speak and its awesome!!!


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## Sirs (Dec 6, 2011)

no matter what it's called it's still really good lol


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## mmadmikes1 (Dec 7, 2011)

I know it does not hinder fermentation, was going to use it to help prevent oxidation. I always step feed the honey. Sugar is not in the finished wine. Yeast convert it to CO2 and alcohol. Using sugar does not really matter because it is not there when your done. Remember you are taking the white sugar and converting it to simple sugar then the yeast convert it again. It is long gone. Honey and apple make a great combo


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## Wade E (Dec 7, 2011)

I was actually talking to the other Mike, LOL.


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## Putterrr (Dec 8, 2011)

Thanks to everyone that offered the experience. I will pass your ideas along and she can decide what she wants to do..

Cheers


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## LJPelletier (Dec 8, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> There is always the amateur home winemakers centrifuge.......



Ha ha, that doesn't look amateur to me lol


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