# Sanitation every time question



## jayhkr (Dec 28, 2015)

So I just want to be sure what I'm doing is within acceptable sanitation guidelines while I'm doing the "cheapy" recipes. I would hate to start a bad practice when I get into the more pricier kit wines later on. Basically I keep all my supplies (plastic spoon, thermometer, hydrometer, test tube, turkey baster) in a plastic tub with a lid on it to keep any dust from getting on them. They, of course, have all been deep cleaned and are rinsed off after every use. Since I use each of those multiple times a day, or at least once a day, what I've been doing is using a spray bottle with the sanitation liquid in it, I just spray down what I'm using real well, give it a few seconds, shake the excess water off and then use them as intended. My question is, is that enough? Do I need to let the sanitation water sit on the tool longer? I'm just making a few batches of Welch's grape wine now, but I know later on I will get into the kit wines and really don't want to ruin one of those batches by contaminating it by being lazy. 

On a side note, I've found a great way to "protect" my hydrometer and make it easier to store. My turkey baster was purchased at the Dollar Tree, and it's the perfect size to put my hydrometer in, skinny end towards the tip of the baster. Then put the "bulb" of the baster over the end where it belongs encapsulating the hydrometer. The baster then fits very nice and snug inside the hydrometer test tube creating a water tight seal at the mouth. I've sprayed the sanitation water in the tube and put the baster in there as described too, hoping the fumes will keep everything sanitized that way too. Any thoughts on that? (I can attach pictures later if needed)


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## Julie (Dec 28, 2015)

sounds like you are going everything pretty good. I like the method of storing the hydrometer.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 28, 2015)

Sounds like you are doing well, but there is one thing you should note. It depends on what kind of "sanitation liquid" you are using. Some kill essentially instantly, but others, like StarSan, need a few minutes of contact time in order to kill all the nasties. Which product are you using? Does it have a label with instructions?


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## BernardSmith (Dec 28, 2015)

Always the contrarian, I would be a little anxious about storing your hydrometer inside a baster. At least my tendency would be to pull down on the top to "open" the baster rather than pull the bulb up and away. And pulling down is liable to cause the hydrometer to snap... If you have a testing cylinder you might want to store your hydrometer inside that (my hydrometer came with a protective plastic box). Murphy's law - Your only hydrometer always breaks when you really it.


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## richmke (Dec 28, 2015)

jayhkr said:


> I just spray down what I'm using real well, give it a few seconds, shake the excess water off and then use them as intended.



Assuming you are using K-Meta (or Na-Meta), the contact time is longer for santization. Using 3 tablespoons to 1 gallon, the contact time is 2 minutes.


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## jayhkr (Dec 28, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> Sounds like you are doing well, but there is one thing you should note. It depends on what kind of "sanitation liquid" you are using. Some kill essentially instantly, but others, like StarSan, need a few minutes of contact time in order to kill all the nasties. Which product are you using? Does it have a label with instructions?



Pretty positive I made a gallon with either easy clean or the campden tablets......my memory just isn't what it used to be.


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## richmke (Dec 28, 2015)

jayhkr said:


> Pretty positive I made a gallon with either easy clean or the campden tablets......my memory just isn't what it used to be.



Easy Clean is an oxygenator, and has a 2 minute contact time. I do not know about storing oxygenators once they are mixed.

Campden tables is k-meta, and an expensive way to get k-meta for sanitation purposes.


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## jayhkr (Dec 28, 2015)

richmke said:


> Easy Clean is an oxygenator, and has a 2 minute contact time. I do not know about storing oxygenators once they are mixed.
> 
> Campden tables is k-meta, and an expensive way to get k-meta for sanitation purposes.



So basically it sounds like I'm not doing it entirely proper. I'm almost positive I'm using the tablets, as I vaguely remember my local supply store saying to use 2 tablets in a 1 gallon jug and it would keep for a few months and to use that. Might have to look into other things.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 28, 2015)

jayhkr said:


> Might have to look into other things.



Yeah, you can get a pound of pure potassium metabisulfite, rather than using the Campden tablets. Much cheaper that way, and more convenient, _except_ for the purpose of doling out small amounts.


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## grapeman (Dec 29, 2015)

Two tablets of Campden is not anywhere near strong enough for use as a sanitizer. That is only equivalent to about one half teaspoon per gallon. You need 2 to 3 TABLESPOONS per gallon.


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## jayhkr (Dec 29, 2015)

grapeman said:


> Two tablets of Campden is not anywhere near strong enough for use as a sanitizer. That is only equivalent to about one half teaspoon per gallon. You need 2 to 3 TABLESPOONS per gallon.



Yeah, I'm looking for a better solution to my solution.....lol. Thank you everyone for the help. This is why I ask questions while in the "learning phase" before I get into the more expensive kit wines later on.


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## richmke (Dec 29, 2015)

jayhkr said:


> Yeah, I'm looking for a better solution to my solution....



I use Star San.


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## jayhkr (Dec 30, 2015)

richmke said:


> I use Star San.



That's what I was leaning towards. Thank you!


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## jayhkr (Dec 31, 2015)

So where I work at was going to throw out this item called "Monogram Clean Force Manual Bar Glass Sanitizer" It has 18.7% Trichloromelamine in it (which I assume is a 3 part mixture of chlorine) and has a 100ppm chlorine for 8 hours. This mixture is 1 packet to 3 gallons of water. If I were to reduce the water to 1 gallon, would that effectively make this 300ppm? Or at least a little stronger than 100ppm? Also would this hold longer than 8 hours if I kept it sealed up? I was able to get quite a few packets from them so one way or another I won't let them go to waste. Just seeing if anyone has had any experience with it for our applications!!

Happy New Year everyone!!


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 31, 2015)

jayhkr said:


> So where I work at was going to throw out this item called "Monogram Clean Force Manual Bar Glass Sanitizer" It has 18.7% Trichloromelamine in it (which I assume is a 3 part mixture of chlorine) and has a 100ppm chlorine for 8 hours. This mixture is 1 packet to 3 gallons of water. If I were to reduce the water to 1 gallon, would that effectively make this 300ppm? Or at least a little stronger than 100ppm? Also would this hold longer than 8 hours if I kept it sealed up? I was able to get quite a few packets from them so one way or another I won't let them go to waste. Just seeing if anyone has had any experience with it for our applications!!
> 
> Happy New Year everyone!!



I personally wouldn't use anything with chlorine in it.


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## richmke (Dec 31, 2015)

What Jim said.

Chlorine can cause TCA (wine taint) to form. So, avoid anything with chlorine in it.


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## jayhkr (Dec 31, 2015)

Great to know. To bad it won't help me but I'm glad I asked first! You guys are the best!!


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## Floandgary (Dec 31, 2015)

Your routine sounds good. Just keep it up and you'll be wondering why others are having so many problems!! I'd go with powdered K-meta like Paul said. Easier to work with. Store it in refrigerator.


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## Johnd (Jan 6, 2016)

I use a Kmeta solution, 3 tablespoons per gallon, keep it in I gallon glass jugs. All of my stuff (spoon, bungs, air locks, wine thief, thermometer, racking tubing, etc.) is in an old juice bucket with about half gallon of solution in it. The lid is airtight. When I work, I dunk my hands in there and come out with the tools I need, rinse and use them. They get cleaned and replaced after each use. Pretty quick and easy access, never had any issues. 
The solution will, however, make some plastic items turn a bit hazy over time. 
Solution gets changed every couple of weeks. 
Hold your breath when you put your face over it to get things out!!!


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## japaisley1 (Feb 18, 2016)

This is a great help to me. I have been sanitizing and cleaning every single tool every use. I need to fill up a bucket as per John's recommendation. I have gone through a lot of k-meta lol. I was wondering about this as I had been soaking my bottles, after already being rinsed, then spraying with a pink cleaner(can't remember the name, but meant for cleaning wine making tools), then rinsing, then sanitizing with k meta and rinsing again 3 more times with water before putting the bottles on the bottle tree for bottling. Do you all think this is ok, for my bottling as of now?


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## Tnuscan (Mar 29, 2016)

japaisley1 said:


> This is a great help to me. I have been sanitizing and cleaning every single tool every use. I need to fill up a bucket as per John's recommendation. I have gone through a lot of k-meta lol. I was wondering about this as I had been soaking my bottles, after already being rinsed, then spraying with a pink cleaner(can't remember the name, but meant for cleaning wine making tools), then rinsing, then sanitizing with k meta and rinsing again 3 more times with water before putting the bottles on the bottle tree for bottling. Do you all think this is ok, for my bottling as of now?



Hi, 
I know this is a little late but I noticed you rinsed 3 more times before putting your bottles on the tree. If your using treated water (city water with chlorine) this might be bad. I rinse with water that has k-meta, drain, lay on side for a minute or two, pick up drain, place on tree. When I take off of tree I hold it upside down and shake back and forth slinging out what is at opening, then fill with wine. Then cork within seconds to a couple of minutes, with corks that have been (fumed) [not soaked] inside closed container with strong k-meta solution.
I just don't trust any water that has no k-meta. Hope this is helpful.


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## bkisel (Mar 29, 2016)

I to would not rinse after sanitizing. Wash with B-Brite (kinda like an Oxiclean), rinse with cold water, rinse or spray with k-meta solution (3 Tbs to a gallon), wait a few minutes and use.


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## wineforfun (Mar 29, 2016)

bkisel said:


> I to would not rinse after sanitizing. Wash with B-Brite (kinda like an Oxiclean), rinse with cold water, rinse or spray with k-meta solution (3 Tbs to a gallon), wait a few minutes and use.



So you are leaving a residue of kmeta in your bottles, prior to putting wine in them?

I must be in the minority. After done fermenting, stirring, racking, etc., I wash everything off with hot water, then clean with either one-step or b-brite. After this, I rinse with hot water and put away in my bucket. It is an open bucket with all my supplies. No lid, no kmeta.
When ready to use a spoon, racking cane, etc., I grab it, rinse with hot water and use.
Never had any issues yet.

If I am reading correctly, it sounds like some of you are going through quite a bit of kmeta if you are changing it out every 2-4 weeks. I am all about keeping things clean, but that seems a little much.


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## Tnuscan (Mar 29, 2016)

wineforfun said:


> So you are leaving a residue of kmeta in your bottles, prior to putting wine in them?
> 
> I must be in the minority. After done fermenting, stirring, racking, etc., I wash everything off with hot water, then clean with either one-step or b-brite. After this, I rinse with hot water and put away in my bucket. It is an open bucket with all my supplies. No lid, no kmeta.
> When ready to use a spoon, racking cane, etc., I grab it, rinse with hot water and use.
> ...



It's time to come out of the minority ;-). A little much?... no way dude, I buy this stuff by the tonnage. I'm like the priest on the Exorcist, I sling this stuff every where. When ever I make a new batch, anything with legs takes off running, Sterilized.


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## bkisel (Mar 29, 2016)

Nope, I really don't go through a lot of k-meta, relatively speaking, because I mostly spritz the solution. I've had k-meta solution stay strong, in a shut gallon plastic milk jug, for maybe up to 3 months.


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## wineforfun (Mar 29, 2016)

haha
I am kind of a "minority kind of guy".

Anyway, I noticed one post said they change the solution every couple of weeks. That would go through quite a bit. Every few months is another story.


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## Tnuscan (Mar 29, 2016)

wineforfun said:


> haha
> I am kind of a "minority kind of guy".
> 
> Anyway, I noticed one post said they change the solution every couple of weeks. That would go through quite a bit. Every few months is another story.



Yes, all in fun. I also have other cleaners, star-san is one of them. I wash, scrub, wash again, but I always reach for the spritz or spray bottle, finishing it off with k-meta solution. Just can't let go, even after reading newer reviews. I do wish I knew what the level was after cleaning carboy or pail at racking to bottle. After adding per gallon dosage , sanitizing pail, sanitizing bottles and all.
If someone has the data, please let me know.


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## japaisley1 (Mar 31, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> Hi,
> I know this is a little late but I noticed you rinsed 3 more times before putting your bottles on the tree. If your using treated water (city water with chlorine) this might be bad. I rinse with water that has k-meta, drain, lay on side for a minute or two, pick up drain, place on tree. When I take off of tree I hold it upside down and shake back and forth slinging out what is at opening, then fill with wine. Then cork within seconds to a couple of minutes, with corks that have been (fumed) [not soaked] inside closed container with strong k-meta solution.
> I just don't trust any water that has no k-meta. Hope this is helpful.



Thanks Dave. My water is from a well. It has been tested in the past, and is excellent quality. No added chlorine etc. 

thanks


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## dcbrown73 (Mar 31, 2016)

k-meta requires two minutes? When I watched the Master Vintner's Winemaking video (Tim Vandergrift) I see him just using a k-meta wet rag to wipe down the stir spoons and other small equipment.


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## Floandgary (Mar 31, 2016)

And so on this subject as well ,,,,,,, by now all should have been clued in that no matter the process, no one has experienced any major problems!! Key is diligence in whichever method you use. Water extremes would be Sulphur smelling from a well or chlorine/chemical smelling from the city. Rarely is bacteria a problem, and if so I wouldn't be concerned with wine! My method ,,, simply wash bottles and equipment with hot water, let dry then rinse with K-meta sanitizing solution. By the time I need the bottles the K-meta has timed out and is neutral. Spritz equipment prior to use. I too have never had a problem


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## Tnuscan (Mar 31, 2016)

Floandgary said:


> And so on this subject as well ,,,,,,, by now all should have been clued in that no matter the process, no one has experienced any major problems!! Key is diligence in whichever method you use. Water extremes would be Sulphur smelling from a well or chlorine/chemical smelling from the city. Rarely is bacteria a problem, and if so I wouldn't be concerned with wine! My method ,,, simply wash bottles and equipment with hot water, let dry then rinse with K-meta sanitizing solution. By the time I need the bottles the K-meta has timed out and is neutral. Spritz equipment prior to use. I too have never had a problem



My Uncle has well water that passed a inspection. Started getting a little sick. After a couple doctor visits ,with no success a close friend had water retested and the samples showed E.coli. Started drinking bottled spring water and is now better. 

Edit: Guess it could happen in any water supply.


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## Floandgary (Apr 1, 2016)

Could happen indeed! We sure take things for granted. Fortunately our bodies usually get just a LITTLE out of sorts when invaded vs. full blown. Again,, Diligence in our approach to warding off potential problems is key..


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## NorCal (Apr 1, 2016)

I didn't see anyone mention adding citric acid to the SO2 solution to bring the pH in a range for proper SO2 efficacy?


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## mikewatkins727 (Apr 1, 2016)

I use 1 tablespoon citric & 2 teaspoon K2S2O5 per gallon. Make new batch when I no longer smell the K2S2O5.


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