# First All Grape Wines



## Matty_Kay (Sep 22, 2017)

Well, I'm going all grapes this year for the first time. 3 lugs of Zinfandel and a field blend of 2 lugs Cab and 1 Merlot. Found a great deal on a used crusher in perfect working order, however we will be destemming by hand. Good news is we have help,it's my birthday tomorrow so some family and friends popping in to lend a hand. My wife and girls (age 9 and 6) are really excited to "squish" grapes. Plan to use D254 for the Cab/Merlot and RP15 for the Zin. Will test ph and TA post crush and sulfite to 50ppm, add Lallezyme,wait 8 hours or so and add Opti Red and pitch yeast sometime Sunday. Any advice before the fun starts tomorrow?

If all goes well, I'll invest in a crusher/destemmer for next year. Probably head to Erie next month for some local region juice, Concord and Traminette. Happy wine making season!!


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 22, 2017)

Matty_Kay said:


> Any advice before the fun starts tomorrow?



Have fun and take pics. Sounds like the start of a great family tradition.


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## JohnT (Sep 22, 2017)

Like BB said, The most important thing is to just have fun with it. Turn it into a party and enjoy! 

And I couldn't agree more, pictures are always welcome!


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 22, 2017)

Thanks guys-the goal is definitely to turn it into a fun tradition. Pics to follow for sure


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## Ajmassa (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm right there with ya. I'm hoping to bring a new generation into my families old tradition. 
Would love to turn it into a party. Spring and now fall were spent working out the kinks (also had out 9 yr old stomping away --- until her feet went numb). Eventually would be awesome to involve everyone in all aspects comfortably. Right now I'm still at the level of "try not to screw it up". Still a blast. Good luck. 

Oh, and I rented my crusher and press this year. It was cheap, easy, and no storage! I'll likely continue to rent....ya know, until I don't that is.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 23, 2017)

Well, 6 lugs are destemmed by hand and crushed with the crusher. Had some help intermittent through the day, mostly my dad. Wife ended up taking the girls to the local hs homecoming parade and game with some friends. Dosed with lallezyme 50 ppm sulfite and will hit with opti red before bed. Will test the chemistry in the morning and pitch the yeast. Couple comments/questions...

1. A crusher/destemmer is on my Christmas list. Destemming by hand sucks
2. I don't have any lids for the Brutes, currently covered with a blanket in the basement. Is that ok until tomorrow?
3. Pics to follow tomorrow
4. The must currently looks dirty, not red but a purplish brownish, is this normal?


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## Ajmassa (Sep 23, 2017)

4. Yup. In about a week it will take in all the lovely color. But you'll notice it change a lot even by tomorrow. Good luck


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## Kraffty (Sep 24, 2017)

1,2 & 3 Yes yes yes. Crusher was my best buy so far. I just put a towel over my brutes, don't need lids unless you have cats.
mike


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 24, 2017)

Chemistry came in as follows:
Zinfandel ph 3.88 TA .75 (maybe)

Cab/Merlot ph 3.7 TA .70(maybe)

I didn't adjust, should I? I don't feel great about the TA calc I got so at least want to try and get ph in order. I have 12 gallons of each and want to adjust the Zinfandel must and I cannot find the appropriate calculation of tartaric acid to add to bring the ph down a bit.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 24, 2017)

Matty_Kay said:


> Chemistry came in as follows:
> Zinfandel ph 3.88 TA .75 (maybe)
> 
> Cab/Merlot ph 3.7 TA .70(maybe)
> ...





I would leave this as is and recheck after MLF.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 24, 2017)

Agree w/ @jgmann67 . pH may be high, but TA is pretty good. Recheck after MLF.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 24, 2017)

Sounds good. Signs of fermentation are beginning to show. Color in the Zin is a nice deep purple while to Cab/Merlot is a hazy purple. So far so good. Plan on stirring tonight before bed and most likely first punch down in the a.m. and dose with nutrient before work. All in all, a positive start!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 24, 2017)

I did a similar batch with similar numbers. Like you I decided on no adjustments. I'm about 3 weeks ahead of you. Figure it might help to know what you would potentially be dealing with. 
Cab/Merlot/Sangiovese 
Before AF
Ph 3.9
TA 7.25
Did not do any acid adjustments. Co-inoculated Malo. MLF went very quick and is already finished basically. 
Numbers post AF-pressing- and MLF 
Ph 4.0
TA 5.25
Not too crazy. Just an easy tartaric addition. I was definitely in he same boat second guessing whether I should have adjusted. But rest easy, the numbers are very workable. 
I need to research how a high PH affects fermentation though. I had some issues and haven't ruled out the high ph as the cause. Keep us updated on how your fermentation progresses. Good luck!


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 24, 2017)

I will definitely keep updated as things progress. Glad to know yours turned out just fine, hopeful I have similar success. I did not co-inoculate my MLB but will after press.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 25, 2017)

Nice cap forming on both this morning, punched down and added nutrient. Will punch down again after work and before bed. I'll also check sg.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 25, 2017)

Nice. Check that SG often so you don't miss that 1/3 sugar depletion ferm K addition. They've been going fast. After AF kicked off went from 1.100 to 1.005 in 3 days.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 25, 2017)

Punched cap on both the Zin and Cab/Merlot blend. Zin sitting at 1.088 and the blend at 1.082, both moving along. The temp in the basement is around 69-70 so I'm thinking temp is in good shape. I'll punch once more before bed. Color in both looking good, no sulfur odor in either. So far so good


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## muskie003 (Sep 26, 2017)

I just made a small batch of barbera from crushed grapes for the first time this year as well. Did you keep yours on the skins at all after crushing? We put some in the primary buckets, but I honestly don't know much about the process. Was this a mistake? How much of the skins should I have used? How long should I soak them? I've always used juice from buckets so this is a learning process for me. Lot of fun though!


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 26, 2017)

I am fermenting both the Zin and Cab/Merlot blend 100% on the skins. After crush, the entire lot of skins and juice went into 20 gallon Brute cans and fermenting since Sunday.


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## muskie003 (Sep 26, 2017)

How long you plan on keeping them on the skins? just thru primary? I didn't use all the skins on ours because I wasn't sure if I should. Just did a small batch, sort of a trial run this year, so we ended up with about two five gallon buckets of juice and added about 4-5 heaping handfuls of skins to each bucket


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 26, 2017)

muskie003 said:


> How long you plan on keeping them on the skins? just thru primary? I didn't use all the skins on ours because I wasn't sure if I should. Just did a small batch, sort of a trial run this year, so we ended up with about two five gallon buckets of juice and added about 4-5 heaping handfuls of skins to each bucket



Ferment on the skins through primary (pressing). Once you press, let the juice settle for 24 hours or so, then rack of the gross lees and pitch your MLB.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 26, 2017)

I plan on pressing once the specific gravity gets to around 1.000


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## sour_grapes (Sep 26, 2017)

muskie003 said:


> How long you plan on keeping them on the skins? just thru primary? I didn't use all the skins on ours because I wasn't sure if I should. Just did a small batch, sort of a trial run this year, so we ended up with about two five gallon buckets of juice and added about 4-5 heaping handfuls of skins to each bucket



You might give this a read: MoreWine Guide to Red Winemaking


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 27, 2017)

Last night Zin was at 1.048 and the Cab/Merlot 1.055. Have been punching down 3 times daily and added nutrient again last night. Most likely last nutrient addition and with any luck we get to 1.000 around Saturday to press


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 27, 2017)

So I may have a potential dilemma on my hands. Over the past 24 hours the specific gravity in both the Zin and Cab blend dropped significantly to 1.012 and 1.008. My fear is another significant drop in sg over night and into tomorrow. I was hoping to press over the weekend as pressing after work with prep and clean up is less than ideal time wise.

My question is has anyone pressed when the sg dropped below 1.000 or should I prepare for a lot of possible work after my day job tomorrow?

Any insight or advice is appreciated. I just want to be ready in case tomorrow or Friday becomes an unplanned press day/night.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 27, 2017)

Matty_Kay said:


> So I may have a potential dilemma on my hands. Over the past 24 hours the specific gravity in both the Zin and Cab blend dropped significantly to 1.012 and 1.008. My fear is another significant drop in sg over night and into tomorrow. I was hoping to press over the weekend as pressing after work with prep and clean up is less than ideal time wise.
> 
> My question is has anyone pressed when the sg dropped below 1.000 or should I prepare for a lot of possible work after my day job tomorrow?
> 
> Any insight or advice is appreciated. I just want to be ready in case tomorrow or Friday becomes an unplanned press day/night.





Personally, I wouldn't fret over it. You'll be fine till Saturday. What is your cap doing?


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 27, 2017)

jgmann67 said:


> Personally, I wouldn't fret over it. You'll be fine till Saturday. What is your cap doing?





Both caps are still well suspended above the must and producing CO2.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 27, 2017)

jgmann67 said:


> Personally, I wouldn't fret over it. You'll be fine till Saturday. What is your cap doing?





Both caps are still well suspended over the liquid must, CO2 still being produced.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 27, 2017)

Matty_Kay said:


> Both caps are still well suspended above the must and producing CO2.





Then, yes - I think you're fine. But, I'm not a seasoned veteran.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 27, 2017)

jgmann67 said:


> Then, yes - I think you're fine. But, I'm not a seasoned veteran.





Thanks for the advice/input. If it does drop to 1.000 or below would you take any additional precautions to protect the wine until Saturday?


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## jgmann67 (Sep 27, 2017)

I'd like to see what others think. But, I'd bet there's plenty of co2 in your wine to keep it safe till the weekend. If you're doing an MLF, I would stay on target with your plan re additives.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 27, 2017)

It's recommended to press before it goes under 1.000--- BUT time doesn't always (or never for me) allow that to happen
I'm not a seasoned vet either, but I pressed a batch in May well under 1.000. No issues at all.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 27, 2017)

Matty_Kay said:


> So I may have a potential dilemma on my hands. Over the past 24 hours the specific gravity in both the Zin and Cab blend dropped significantly to 1.012 and 1.008. My fear is another significant drop in sg over night and into tomorrow. I was hoping to press over the weekend as pressing after work with prep and clean up is less than ideal time wise.
> 
> My question is has anyone pressed when the sg dropped below 1.000 or should I prepare for a lot of possible work after my day job tomorrow?
> 
> Any insight or advice is appreciated. I just want to be ready in case tomorrow or Friday becomes an unplanned press day/night.



You're fine - it'll slow down a bit. I've pressed below 1.000 several times with no issue. I actually prefer it, if it means more time on the skins. There's a lot of CO2 in there still.


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## cmason1957 (Sep 27, 2017)

I seldom press until the cap falls without regard to the sg. It is often right below 1.000


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 28, 2017)

Boatboy24 said:


> You're fine - it'll slow down a bit. I've pressed below 1.000 several times with no issue. I actually prefer it, if it means more time on the skins. There's a lot of CO2 in there still.





Thanks-good to know and definitely helps for peace of mind. I too am looking for as much skins contact as reasonably possible.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 28, 2017)

cmason1957 said:


> I seldom press until the cap falls without regard to the sg. It is often right below 1.000





Glad to hear there is enough wiggle room in terms of when to press. Thanks!


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## sdelli (Sep 28, 2017)

muskie003 said:


> How long you plan on keeping them on the skins? just thru primary? I didn't use all the skins on ours because I wasn't sure if I should. Just did a small batch, sort of a trial run this year, so we ended up with about two five gallon buckets of juice and added about 4-5 heaping handfuls of skins to each bucket





Nooo..... When you crush grapes you use everything that came with them. Unless you are making white or Rose.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 28, 2017)

cmason1957 said:


> I seldom press until the cap falls without regard to the sg. It is often right below 1.000





The SG is sitting at 1.001 on both wines. Will check SG in the morning again. In the meantime, getting the press, buckets, carboys etc cleaned and sanitized in prep for pressing on Saturday morning. Caps are still present as well so I feel confident all is well until the weekend.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 29, 2017)

Checked SG this morning and Zin is at 1.000 and Cab at .998. We may press this evening over a bottle of something!


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 30, 2017)

Ended up pressing last night. Overall, went pretty well however there are definitely a few things I'd do differently in terms of overall set up. But, live and learn. 

There is at least an inch of sediment at the bottom of the Cab carboy and much less on the Zin. This I know is a direct result of some fumbling on my end. I'll rack off the gross lees today and pitch MLB.


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## Johnd (Sep 30, 2017)

Matty_Kay said:


> Ended up pressing last night. Overall, went pretty well however there are definitely a few things I'd do differently in terms of overall set up. But, live and learn.
> 
> There is at least an inch of sediment at the bottom of the Cab carboy and much less on the Zin. This I know is a direct result of some fumbling on my end. I'll rack off the gross lees today and pitch MLB.



Consider giving it another day or two before racking off of the gross lees, you don't want to have to do it again just after pitching MLB.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 30, 2017)

Matty_Kay said:


> Ended up pressing last night. Overall, went pretty well however there are definitely a few things I'd do differently in terms of overall set up. But, live and learn.
> 
> There is at least an inch of sediment at the bottom of the Cab carboy and much less on the Zin. This I know is a direct result of some fumbling on my end. I'll rack off the gross lees today and pitch MLB.



My first press was 4 lugs of a single varietal and took 3.5 hours. In 2015, Dad and I did 9 lugs of 3 varietals in 2.5 hours. Live and learn, indeed. The biggest timesaver I've found is the PVC column strainer with a ga-jillion holes in it. Rack out through that with the AI1 while finalizing the set up of everything else, then press. 

Agree with John on waiting - 24-48 hours will get a lot of those lees off - and that's a good thing. Take the remains and set them in the fridge for 24 hours or so and you'll have a little more top-up wine for later.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 30, 2017)

Johnd said:


> Consider giving it another day or two before racking off of the gross lees, you don't want to have to do it again just after pitching MLB.





I took a whif of the Zin and there is a hint of H2S, which was surprising since the fermentation was quite clean with no off odors at all. I'm thinking from some of the sludge at the bottom of the carboy. Wanted to rack off the gross sooner rather than later to avoid any potential bigger problems.


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 30, 2017)

I ended up racking the Zin off the gross lees, off odor seemingly eliminated. Will pitch mlb tomorrow after racking the Cab. Clean up is finally over also. The major lifting is over, I'm hooked on all grapes. An added bonus is the wife o.k.'d the purchase of a crusher/destemmer. Plan to have in hand for spring Chilean grapes.


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## stickman (Sep 30, 2017)

I always buy first, if there are any complaints it's too late.


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## Matty_Kay (Oct 1, 2017)

Racked both the Zin and Cab, added mlb to both and medium toast American oak to the Zin and medium plus American oak to the Cab. Will stir every few days and check for mlf progress in a few weeks


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## Matty_Kay (Oct 24, 2017)

Ran chromatography test over the weekend, still showing signs of malic acid on both the Zin and Cab/Merlot blend. However, definite progress. Hopefully another few weeks and mlf will be wrapped up.


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