# Wine Making w/out additives



## Giuseppe (Sep 23, 2010)

I just wanted to know if anyone else produces wine using naturally found yeast? (without adding packages of yeast, sulfate, and other commonly used additives) Just 100% NATURAL


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## Sirs (Sep 23, 2010)

I have been so far. Only thing I've ever used is water, sugar and whatever fruit including grape I was making it from. It seems alot on here don't but to each they're own as long as it tastes good to the one making it is all that matters. I've made wine for a long time and I've only had 1 batch go to vinegar but that was my fault wasn't as careful about the fruit flies as my cover got knocked off during the night.


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## Giuseppe (Sep 23, 2010)

GOTCHA!!!
The reason i asked was because i never looked into making wine any way other than how I've been doing it. My grandfather and I make about 75-100 gal. at one time each year. We buy the grapes whole and do the crushing, pressing and fermenting our selves but without the addition on any "packets". we don't add extra yeast, sulfates or anything else... Grapes to Bottles essentially. (WE ALL KNOW THE STEPS IN BETWEEN). Obviously doing it our way takes longer and certain things have to controlled and monitored carefully to ensure bacteria and mold doesn't ruin our wine... but hey Ive been doing it this way for about 7yrs now and haven't ruined a batch yet... nor gotten sick; and my Grandfather phewww he's been doing it for over 65 years. My grandfather came to the US from Calabria, Italy... and he has passed his knowledge down to me!!! I originally started making wine with him for the bonding and the past times... but as many people here have said its an addiction. I wouldn't trade learning this for anything... the fact that I'll be able to take his knowledge and pass that along to my kids one day and we will be able to drink my grandfathers wine YEARS after he has left us.... Is something words cannot express... and all wine makers have there reason for doing this, some purely for the wine, some for fun... but i think if we all look back at when we started and then look at today (even if you started a day or two ago with your first batch) the time you put into your wine is memorable, you may not know it now but the memories of yesterday will live with us forever... and when we cant make wine anymore... we are all gonna miss this, right here, right where we are now! 
BEST OF LUCK TO ALL THE BEGINNERS!!!

SALUTE

**A BEER A DAY, LIVE TO ONE HUNDRED, A WINE A DAY, LIVE FOREVER**


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## Green_Acres (Sep 23, 2010)

could the two of you post the step and how to do this, my botherlaw make wine this was but for some reason he wont tell me how he does it. I like to try a batch or two that way.


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## proksy (Sep 23, 2010)

Was that a prank, I'm kinda confused..Well, I know I use all natural yeast...all yeasts are natural and there are a lot. From my understanding of things, yeast is used to speed up the process, that is about it...I mean you guys are doing it the way its been done for 1000s of years, the traditional way, the best way I think. I have limited space for supplies, limited time, money ect, ect..you get the picture. I like your setup though


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## Green_Acres (Sep 23, 2010)

proksy said:


> Was that a prank, I'm kinda confused..Well, I know I use all natural yeast...all yeasts are natural and there are a lot. From my understanding of things, yeast is used to speed up the process, that is about it...I mean you guys are doing it the way its been done for 1000s of years, the traditional way, the best way I think. I have limited space for supplies, limited time, money ect, ect..you get the picture. I like your setup though



no prank on my part an if ever one is taking it that way sorry, but I real like to learn the right step to making traditional wine, my brotherlaw and I dont see eye to eye on a lot of thing so I guess that why he wont teach me or show me how, sorry again if some of you took this the wrong way. I new at this and have a lot to learn.


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## Dugger (Sep 23, 2010)

proksy said:


> .. I know I use all natural yeast...all yeasts are natural and there are a lot. From my understanding of things, yeast is used to speed up the process, that is about it...



Actually, yeast is_ needed _for the process; it just doesn't speed it up. Yeast consumes the sugar in the juice and converts it to alcohol and carbon dioxide - this is the fermentation process. No yeast .. no wine! Like you say, there are lots of yeasts out there floating about and these will ferment your juice - some may give you a good wine, others may not. 
I have not fermented anything purposely with wild yeast so have no idea what a success rate might be. However, bu using a yeast that has been selected for a particular grape/juice, I am confident my success rate will be 100%, provided I do things properly.
Other additives such as sulphites and sorbate, etc. are certainly optional, but, again, they help you hit that 100% mark.
Good luck.


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## Wade E (Sep 23, 2010)

To me, if your happy with the way you do it then fine and no need to change. All yeast is natural! these yeasts are extracted from certain areas around the world which bring out different aspects of a wine. Also, sulfates are also natural and are produced in smaller amounts by fermentation it self and adding just a little bit more is just a precaution to keep your wines already existing bacteria in check. Green Acres, the only thing they are doing differn then you is not adding any additional yeasts and not adding the sulfites. Just put all your fruit in the bucket and keep the temp up and mother nature will either start the fermentation for you or not and your fruiut will go bad, its really that simple!


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## Green_Acres (Sep 24, 2010)

Wade E said:


> To me, if your happy with the way you do it then fine and no need to change. All yeast is natural! these yeasts are extracted from certain areas around the world which bring out different aspects of a wine. Also, sulfates are also natural and are produced in smaller amounts by fermentation it self and adding just a little bit more is just a precaution to keep your wines already existing bacteria in check. Green Acres, the only thing they are doing differn then you is not adding any additional yeasts and not adding the sulfites. Just put all your fruit in the bucket and keep the temp up and mother nature will either start the fermentation for you or not and your fruiut will go bad, its really that simple!



Thanks, I going to try a gal of some and see how it come out.


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## andrew_ysk (Aug 26, 2018)

Giuseppe said:


> GOTCHA!!!
> The reason i asked was because i never looked into making wine any way other than how I've been doing it. My grandfather and I make about 75-100 gal. at one time each year. We buy the grapes whole and do the crushing, pressing and fermenting our selves but without the addition on any "packets". we don't add extra yeast, sulfates or anything else... Grapes to Bottles essentially. (WE ALL KNOW THE STEPS IN BETWEEN). Obviously doing it our way takes longer and certain things have to controlled and monitored carefully to ensure bacteria and mold doesn't ruin our wine... but hey Ive been doing it this way for about 7yrs now and haven't ruined a batch yet... nor gotten sick; and my Grandfather phewww he's been doing it for over 65 years. My grandfather came to the US from Calabria, Italy... and he has passed his knowledge down to me!!! I originally started making wine with him for the bonding and the past times... but as many people here have said its an addiction. I wouldn't trade learning this for anything... the fact that I'll be able to take his knowledge and pass that along to my kids one day and we will be able to drink my grandfathers wine YEARS after he has left us.... Is something words cannot express... and all wine makers have there reason for doing this, some purely for the wine, some for fun... but i think if we all look back at when we started and then look at today (even if you started a day or two ago with your first batch) the time you put into your wine is memorable, you may not know it now but the memories of yesterday will live with us forever... and when we cant make wine anymore... we are all gonna miss this, right here, right where we are now!
> BEST OF LUCK TO ALL THE BEGINNERS!!!
> 
> ...


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## meadmaker1 (Aug 26, 2018)

Green_Acres said:


> no prank on my part an if ever one is taking it that way sorry, but I real like to learn the right step to making traditional wine, my brotherlaw and I dont see eye to eye on a lot of thing so I guess that why he wont teach me or show me how, sorry again if some of you took this the wrong way. I new at this and have a lot to learn.


My guess is your brother-in-law doesnt want you to know how simple it is. Or he has been lucky and has little real knowledge to share.
Get yourself some good ,ripe grapes, crush and destem into a bucket and cover. Stir twice a day for a week or two then rack the fluid into an air locked container (car boy ). Make sure you leave as little air space as possible. 
When its clear drink it.
All of the other hoops and hurdles are personal choices that speed up the process, preserve the product, or create a more predictable customized product.
I would plan on consuming rather than aging.
Brix and specific gravity should still be checked and tracked.

Thinking out loud ' yeast is the magic here its as natural as the fruit itself. A packet costs about a $1.50, compared to grapes at $1.00 per lb or more. Some yeasts are good at fermintation that might lack neutreants stressing the process. Lavin Ec1118 is one


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## balatonwine (Aug 26, 2018)

andrew_ysk said:


> Can you share with me how it is achieved ?



This thread is 8 years old. Maybe starting a new one with your questions would be better.


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## pgentile (Aug 26, 2018)

As was mentioned before, all commercially available yeasts are from wild yeast that have been isolated and cultivated. Non-sacch yeast start out the ferment and then eventually sacch yeast takes over killing and inhibiting the rest as the alcohol level increases, whether it's a wild ferment or packet.

The main reasons wine makers use packet/commercial yeast is to get certain aspects to the wine that the particular yeast brings and control what yeast will do the fermenting.

Fermenting with the wild yeast in the air, grapes or winery has been going on since the beginning of fermenting, several thousand years. It must work or we wouldn't have gotten here with wine. Most commercial yeasts I believe have only been available since something the 1970's? Many wineries in Europe don't add packet yeast.

At this point in my wine making, I can't afford to buy expensive grapes and then have them ferment with a yeast that does not compliment in the best way.

But my bet is, and some of you prove it, is that you can probably make a drinkable wine without adding packet yeast most of the time. But with packet yeast that consistency will increase.

One of these days I will commit a lug or two to a natural ferment.


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## pgentile (Aug 26, 2018)

balatonwine said:


> This thread is 8 years old. Maybe starting a new one with your questions would be better.



Wow, really old I didn't look at the dates.


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## meadmaker1 (Aug 26, 2018)

Lol i didn't look at the dates either. But repost it and my response will be pretty much the same.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 27, 2018)

Regardless of thread age, it's a good topic of discussion.

Another advantage of commercial yeast is that it's typically selected for its killer abilities -- to the best of my knowledge, most will kill or smother wild yeasts and bacteria, thus making it far less likely for a batch to go bad.


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## Electrojim (Aug 27, 2018)

Good topic, and just in time. I've got a few pounds of Zinfandel grapes getting ripe pretty fast, and it's been a few years since I've tried wine-making. In fact, I gave away my wine-making stuff; all I have left is a refractometer. But I've ordered some basic stuff on eBay and look forward to a crush in a few weeks.

I'd wanted to try an all-natural approach, but was a bit afraid of failure. Thus if winemaker81 wanted to recommend a good 'killer yeast,' I'd at least go to that extreme, plus careful washing and sterilizing. What I don't want to do is mess around with the pH, add corn sugar, yeast nutrients, that kind of thing. If the grapes are good, let the wine be good too. All suggestions welcome, of course! And many thanks.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 27, 2018)

Electrojim, I typically use Lalvin and Red Star yeasts. Any of them should work. Lalvin EC1118 is an all-around yeast, although I'd use RC-212 for Zin or any red. My local shop carries a brand I'm not familiar with, and I cannot recall the name at this time. I'm going to experiment with it. Honestly, any commercial wine yeast will produce a good result.

Check the gravity of your grapes. If there isn't sufficient sugar to get at least 10% alcohol, I'd add sugar. [You can use table sugar]

Use whatever additives you feel comfortable with. Keep in mind that Mother Nature doesn't care if we make good wine ... so the fruit isn't always perfect for that task. Sometimes the fruit needs a bit of help ....


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## meadmaker1 (Aug 28, 2018)

Remember yeast is natural. Putting it a little foil pouch doesnt make it a chemical.
I agree with ec1118 due to it working well in low neutreant situations. Im not familiar with the other recommendation.
After your first batch keep a container, not a glass jar, of the mud left after first racking frozen until your next batch. Add it thawed to your next batch and it will contain the yeasts you need without buying more. I promise to not tell your brother inlaw, and now you have your own secrets.


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## Masbustelo (Aug 28, 2018)

Regarding natural ferments: Pretty much any grape must if let to sit for 2-4 days will have enough yeast present to go into a spontaneous ferment. The problem is not with the yeast. The problem is with what else is growing in there for that 2-4 day period. It could be acetobacter and a myriad of other organisms that may taint the wine with undesirable flavors. I like to do natural ferments and typically don't use sulphates upfront, pre- fermentaton. I would suggest one of two techniques, either make a starter batch with the commercial yeast you want to use and have it ready as soon as the must is crushed. The second option is to take some of the grapes 2-4 days ahead of the crush and cultivate a starter using them as a source for yeast. That way you can avoid an indeterminate number of days with the must sitting at room temperature, perhaps degenerating in quality.


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## Kaotisk Bäsärk (Aug 28, 2018)

I have made hard cider using nothing but pressed juice from the apples on my trees; no added yeast, sugar, or chemicals. I transfer the juice into glass bottles and place them out in the sun for a couple days to let the ultra-violet rays from the sun pasteurize the juice, place wax paper over the opening, and screw the caps on and let them ferment. People may advise against this method as there's a risk of carbon dioxide buildup and the bottles may explode, but as long as you unscrew the caps 1-2 times a day there isn't really any risk of 'bottle-bombs', and I have never experienced one. I personally enjoy the flavors the wild yeast and bacteria add to the cider, and the bacteria can add enjoyable textures to the fermentation product, much like Malolactic Fermentation (MLF), the sealed container also retains carbonation, leaving you with a nice sparkling hard cider to enjoy on a hot day after working. If carbonation isn't preferred, one can always degas as usual. 

The only real downside to not using additives, particularly Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate, is that the shelf-life of your fermentation product is shortened, but even in that case once you run the fermentation dry (meaning there are no remaining fermentable sugars in your fermented solution), you don't have to worry about bottles exploding from pressure, and you can kill the wild bacteria and yeast by boiling the bottles (I use a kettle designed for canning) and putting the bottles in your refrigerator, or even go more au natural and cool them in a snow bank or frozen river. Though usually all of the beverage has been consumed before we even get close to worrying about shelf life...


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## balatonwine (Aug 29, 2018)

winemaker81 said:


> Regardless of thread age, it's a good topic of discussion.



Quality of the topic was not my point. Rather that @andrew_ysk asked directly to @Giuseppe who has not been active here since 2011, so would be unlikely to reply.

But none-the-less, replying to stale topics is generally not good "netiquette". After 10 years of no activity, better to start new and fresh where the old comments do not bother with newer, fresher ideas. Best to let old, stale discussions be historical, available via search. 

IMHO.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 29, 2018)

balatonwine said:


> But none-the-less, replying to stale topics is generally not good "netiquette".


There's no global rule. In some forums, "thread necromancy" is considered a normal thing.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 29, 2018)

Biggest problem is wading through a long thread reading and digesting all the comments and for some 'old hands' here (Not Me), re-digesting comments made by other and sometimes themselves. 

I would suggest that if a person reads an old thread and has a question about it - start new thread, summarize your questions or understanding of that old thread - then pose your question or comment. Also past a link to that old thread so that those who wish to can go back and re-read it.


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