# How would you make a blackberry + elderberry port?



## Cracked Cork (Oct 16, 2007)

I have lots of blackberries and elderberries left and want to make a port from them. Anyone else mixed these together for a port?

Crackecork


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## PolishWineP (Oct 16, 2007)

I've never mixed them but I think they would get along quite well for a port. It's not like you'd be mixing elderberries and tomatoes.




Go for it!


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## lockdude (Oct 16, 2007)

I think that if you did a 50/50,the elderberrys may overpower the blackberrys.I would think you should use more blackberrys than elders.I cant say for sure,but thats what I think.I did a elderberry/cherry last year,and the elderberry flavor is pretty even with the cherry.It was a 25% elder,and 75% cherry.
lockdude


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## Waldo (Oct 17, 2007)

lockdude is correct, from my opinion anyway. I would suggest an 80% Blackberry and 20% Elderberry


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## Cracked Cork (Oct 17, 2007)

Ok guys, keep going: We want to make a heavy bodied long aging wine, maybe bulk age a year or until clear.

How many pounds total for 5 gallons, like 30 pounds of fruit? 

Kept on the skins for a week?

Starting gravity like 1.1 and keep feeding when it gets to 1.02 until it cant eat anymore sugar?

K1-V1116 of EC118?

I was thinking adding about 5 cans welches concentrate for even a bit more body?

A big handfull of toasted oak?

Crackedcork


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## jobe05 (Oct 17, 2007)

Cracked: Here is the recipe that Waldo found for me last year when I made my first batch, it was good, but like most batches, we tweak them to see if they can get better. My second batch, wasn't as good, but still was good. Doing my third batch now, and it will be the best yet. 

*Ingredients* 
6.0 lb. (2.7 kg) ripe blackberries 
1 cup red grape concentrate 
1/2 cup light dried malt extract 
1 3/4 lb. (0.79 kg) granulated sugar 
1/2 tsp. pectic enzyme 
1 1/4 tsp. acid blend 
4 pints (1.9 L) water 
1 crushed Campden tablet 
1/2 tsp. yeast energizer 
1 tsp. yeast nutrient 
1 pkg Lalvin K1-V1116 (Montpellier) or a port wine yeast 

With this latest batch, I upped the light Malt to 3/4 per gallon and fermented on 3 ounces of french oak, medium toast, then 2 ounces Hungarian oak in the secondary. The extra Malt seems to hide the higher alcohol, keeping a nice smooth drink.

Since I haven't used elderberries, I can't comment on the addition of them, but I do know that with 6 pounds of blackberries per gallon, you won't need the concentrate for body, it will stick to the side of your glass as it is.

The K1V1116 will also ferment out to 20 to 21 % under the right conditions. Mine is at a little over 19% right now, but will continue to ferment out over the next month or so in the secondary. Edit: You will ferment on the skins for close to 2 weeks from the time you throw the yeast till the day you rack into secondary at 1.010. Of course this is after you add sugar to bring the level back up. I start at 1.110, let it come down to 1.030 +- then add sugar back to 1.080, then let it come back to 1.020 +- which is were t will fizzle out at 20+% ABV.

*Edited by: jobe05 *


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## lockdude (Oct 17, 2007)

With say 25Lbs of blackberrys and 5 Lbs of elders,Its going to have tons of body.I wouldnt bother with trying to add more.I wouldnt use the 1118 because it has a kinda bland flavor profile.The 1116 is a better choice.If you feed it sugar in stages,and keep track of your additions,you will be able to get a high% wineeasily.I wouldnt start it at too high of a gravity because osmotic stress will weaken your yeast some,and if your going to feed it anyway,you might as well keep your yeast as happy as you can so it willget the high% that you want.Man it sure sounds good!I would ferment on the blackberrys for 7 days,but would only do the elders for 4 days.
lockdude*Edited by: lockdude *


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## Cracked Cork (Oct 18, 2007)

So in building a better blackberry/elderberry port K1=V1116 it is, always have good luck with this yeast anyway. I also have 3 lb of extra light dry malt extract to toss in. And some oakmor for the primary and chips or staves, toasted, for under glass. 

I was thinking to also steam extract the juice and then throw the skins back in, the wife got one of those juicers and it seems I get a gallon of juice for every 10lb of berries. Could even possibly go 100% berry juice upping the berries to 35 blackberry and 15 elderberries?

Crackedcork


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## lockdude (Oct 18, 2007)

Its sounding better all the time!!! the dried malt will make it rich.
lockdude


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## Cracked Cork (Oct 19, 2007)

We been thinking of maybe going more traditional style, fermenting with a weaker yeast from 1.100 to 1.04 and then hitting it with everclear. Does that sound more in line with traditional port winemaking? Crackedcork


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## Waldo (Oct 19, 2007)

Cracked, I would highly recommend getting a WYeast liquid yeast for Port. I don't think George handles it but maybe he could get it for you or you can Google for a location to purchase it.


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## Cracked Cork (Oct 19, 2007)

Hi Waldo, I have never used a liquid yeast before, always just made my own, what is so special about this one?
Thanks
Crackedcork


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## Waldo (Oct 19, 2007)

It is developed especially for making Ports. Worked great on mine. Here is where I bought mine 
http://www.annapolishomebrew.com/shopWYwine.asp*Edited by: Waldo *


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## s.arkvinomaker (Oct 24, 2007)

Another way you may think about making this wine is making each sepatately and blend the two just before bottling so as to control the 
flavor that best suites you. I've done this myself with great results.


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## s.arkvinomaker (Oct 24, 2007)

Hi there Cracked Corn,
I would be interested on any info on the steamer. I've heard others
mentioned they use a steamer at Winefest. I'm sorry I don't know your real name. Mine is David.


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## Waldo (Oct 25, 2007)

Those steamers work great in extracting the juices from the fruits David. When you make it up this way i will give you a hands on demo


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## Cracked Cork (Oct 25, 2007)

Waldo would be the man to ask. Waldo, you ever have any problems clearing your steam extracted wines? Do any of them give any special problems being steamed that are not usually a problem using fresh fruit?

Crackedcork


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## Waldo (Oct 26, 2007)

Have not experienced any myself Cracked. If anything I feel it helps the fruit wines clear better as well as quicker.


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## lockdude (Dec 17, 2007)

Any updates?


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## Cracked Cork (Dec 19, 2007)

Yes, a couple of deer interupted my winemaking but its getting too cold to sit in a tree now so I am going back into the basement to work  Crackedcork


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## lockdude (Dec 19, 2007)

I am thinking of making the same.What quanitys did you use?I still have 20 pounds of elderberrys,but Im going to have to buy the blackberrys.
Im thinking about 12 or 18 pounds of blackberrys,and about 8-10 pounds of elderberrys.Does that sound like too much?


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## Cracked Cork (Dec 20, 2007)

I am sorry to say that I am still philisposizing about how to do it, its probably going to be the last big batch of the season and I am having a hard time making up my mind what to do with the last of this years fruit. I think I may make it my new years project. Crackedcork


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## lockdude (Dec 20, 2007)

Im doing the same.Its the last 20 pounds of elderberrys from this year,and I want to be careful to make a really big wine that will have to age for at least 12-18 months before trying.Im just getting into last years elderberry wine.Its good,but could be heavier on the flavor.I made 2 batches last year,and the 2nd one has to age 2 more months to be a year.
Im going to buy the blackberrys.


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## Cracked Cork (Dec 22, 2007)

So we decided to start this batch today, cant really call it a port since we are not going to stop the fermentation.

25lb blackberry, very ripe and frozen
20 ounces dried elderberries
Dropped this for primary - AG at 1.1, save for secondary to boost alchohol {5 cans Welches Concord conc.}
2.5 lb extra light dried malt extract
2.5 t sp nutrient start, 2.5 in a week probably
95gm American Toasted Oakmor Powder in primary, Oak stave for aging
Sugar to start ~7lb
Acid Tested = .675 with no additions required
KMeta Overnight

Then added:
10 ml pectinase
2 ml amylase
2.5 tsp DAP
2.5 tsp Superferment
EC-118 added as starter 24 hrs after KMeta

We decided to steam the blackberries, add the dried elderberries to the hot steamed juice to get them rehydrated, stir in the ELDME and about 6lb of sugar. Its now cooling, later today will add KMeta for insurance and make a starter of EC-118 for high alchohol levels. EBs will be bagged and removed right before transferring to glass. Will add the concord and adjust SG to about 1.095 to start off, then make additions of syrup a couple of times during fermentation. When its done I plan on sweetening to around ~1.02 if the alchohol gets high enough and age it an oak stave too for a while. That should give us a good start, thanks for all the tips.

After measuring SG there was no room for additional sugar so we had to drop the concord conc in primary, but we will use it to boost the sugar for more alchohol by feeding it later.

Crackedcork

*Edited by: Cracked Cork *


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 22, 2007)

Cracked....did you dry your own Elderberries????? If so...How?


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## Cracked Cork (Dec 22, 2007)

NW, we picked off the ripe berries by hand and put them in an Excalibur dehydrator set at about 125F, took overnight or longer, and we reduced their weight to about 20% of fresh. They are nice and black and crunchy and taste very good raw. Crackedcork


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## Cracked Cork (Jan 3, 2008)

We went to a hippie store and found some Tree of LIfe brand organic fruit concentrates to add the the primary, I wanted to use those to boost the alchohol and add some taste and richness. I added 32 ounces of their concord concentrate when the gravity got to 1.02, 2 cans of welches grape concentrated when it fell back to 1.02, and then a black cherry conce when it fell back to 1.02. I racked into a glass carboy when the gravity fell to 1.01 and its still cooking away. I have a few ounces of room left and will top off with some sugar syrup. When it settles out and we rack again I plan on hitting it with the black cherry again and probably some more oak. Yes I want this to be as full bodied and alcholic as can be, doesnt matter if it takes a couple of years to be drinkable.

Crackedcork



Cracked Cork said:


> So we decided to start this batch today, cant really call it a port since we are not going to stop the fermentation.
> 
> 25lb blackberry, very ripe and frozen
> 20 ounces dried elderberries
> ...


*Edited by: Cracked Cork *


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