# 2020 Chilean Grape Plans



## jsbeckton (Feb 22, 2020)

Last year I made about 7g of Chilean Merlot. This year I wanted to try something different like a Malbec, Carménère or Syrah but can’t decide. Was thinking that maybe instead I could try a blend which is typically harder to do at my scale but at 18# crates I have more options. Maybe mix in some Petite Verdot.

So looking for feedback from other that have made either varietals or blends of these Chilean grapes.

This will be coming from CFP winemakers in Pittsburgh.

Thanks!


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## Johnd (Feb 22, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Last year I made about 7g of Chilean Merlot. This year I wanted to try something different like a Malbec, Carménère or Syrah but can’t decide. Was thinking that maybe instead I could try a blend which is typically harder to do at my scale but at 18# crates I have more options. Maybe mix in some Petite Verdot.
> 
> So looking for feedback from other that have made either varietals or blends of these Chilean grapes.
> 
> ...



In my Chilean adventure, I ended up with a small batch of Bordeaux style blend that’s pretty tasty today, better than my single varietals from the same grapes, CS, Merlot, Malbec, IIRC....


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## Chuck E (Feb 22, 2020)

@jsbeckton I made Carnenere, Malbec and Viognier last spring. They all turned out pretty well, scheduled for bottling in a month. I have a 50/50 blend of Carmenere-Malbec that I am anxiously awaiting. The little tastes along the process have been very promising.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 22, 2020)

I'm going to sound like a broken record but don't overlook the Stellenbosch Cab From S. Africa. Also, Chilean Pinot Noir is gaining popularity.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 22, 2020)

So many possibilities! Was thinking maybe a blend of Carménère a s Malbec with a bit of Petite Verdot to add more color and tannin:

50% Carménère
24% Malbec
17% Petite Verdot

Any thoughts on that or alternative suggestions?


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## CDrew (Feb 22, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> So many possibilities! Was thinking maybe a blend of Carménère a s Malbec with a bit of Petite Verdot to add more color and tannin:
> 
> 50% Carménère
> 24% Malbec
> ...



DIsclaimer-Never made wine with grapes from Chile...

Do you have any ability to know from your supplier the basic numbers before you purchase? I'd probably look for the ripest/nicest/freshest grapes with the best balance of sugar, acid and pH. Also keeping things simple is usually good too. So maybe 10 gallons of 2 varieties and keep separate until it's time to do blend experiments.

If you put everything in one big "field blend" you won't have much control where you end up, though that can be a pleasant surprise too. And math wise, what's the last 9% going to be? 

The handful of Chilean Carmenere wines I've had have been good, so I like your choice for the dominant varietal. I'm also not a huge Malbec fan and have never had a single varietal Petite Verdot so there's that!

Good luck, I will look forward to updates.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 22, 2020)

80-90% Carmenere, the rest Petite Verdot.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 22, 2020)

Need to work on my math!

I haven’t had a Malbec nor a Carménère in awhile so grabbed a bottle of each and had the Carménère last night. It was quite good so think I’m settled on that as the main component and also really want the added color of the Petite Verdot so that will be a minor component.

Will probably give the Malbec a try tonight to see if I want to try to include that in the mix as well.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 22, 2020)

2018 I did a 100% Chilean Malbec Split batch with D254 and D80. Ended up being the best wine I ever made. Stands stall on its own. No help needed. Fughetaboutit

Gonna be hard not to make it again this spring. And likely will. I mean- it’s South America right? That’s why I went with Malbec to begin with.


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## pgentile (Feb 22, 2020)

Malbec, Carmenere and Petite Verdot here, probably another field blend.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 22, 2020)

This will indeed be a field blend as the scale I’m working with it won’t make much sense to try to keep separate. I’m thinking that I’ll combine everything at crush to check overall pH and then split into 2 batches for dual yeast. Have been hearing good things about a combo of D80 and D254 so that’s the plan


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## mainshipfred (Feb 23, 2020)

The link is to some spring yeast recommendations and other interesting topics. 
http://blog.juicegrape.com/index.ph...ng-wine-yeast-suggestions-cabernet-sauvignon/

In previous years I was able to find harvest reports for S African and Chilean grapes but can't seem to find it now.

@CDrew, you Cali guys are spoiled. Most of us have to preorder our grapes and have to deal with what we get. We have very few options to see the grapes before we buy them and never have the opportunity for Southern Hemisphere grapes.

Considering the distance these grapes have to travel it's amazing the quality of the Chilean. The S African are probably on the ship a few weeks longer and sometimes have a little more mold, raisined or crushed berries but still in acceptable condition.


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## CDrew (Feb 23, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> @CDrew, you Cali guys are spoiled. Most of us have to preorder our grapes and have to deal with what we get. We have very few options to see the grapes before we buy them and never have the opportunity for Southern Hemisphere grapes.



Interesting. So you pre-order and then take what they give you, as opposed to going to a warehouse and picking what you want. I guess I would have thought the crates were lined up and you had some choice. From the supplier perspective, though, the pre-order thing does prevent left over/unsold stock.

But "spoiled" seems like a strong word! LOL. We are spoiled by crowded freeways, ridiculous state taxes, and expensive real estate. But grape wise, we do have pretty good choices in September and October.


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## CDrew (Feb 23, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> The link is to some spring yeast recommendations and other interesting topics.
> http://blog.juicegrape.com/index.ph...ng-wine-yeast-suggestions-cabernet-sauvignon/



And, @mainshipfred if you want to try Avante yeast for your spring grapes, I still have about 100gm I'll be happy to send your way. It's vacuum sealed and refrigerated, I'm sure it's still fine. Or I can send half to you and half to @jsbeckton.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 23, 2020)

CDrew said:


> Interesting. So you pre-order and then take what they give you, as opposed to going to a warehouse and picking what you want. I guess I would have thought the crates were lined up and you had some choice. From the supplier perspective, though, the pre-order thing does prevent left over/unsold stock.
> 
> But "spoiled" seems like a strong word! LOL. We are spoiled by crowded freeways, ridiculous state taxes, and expensive real estate. But grape wise, we do have pretty good choices in September and October.



So in other words- Fred is correct! 
Multiple options, direct contact with the vineyard, often known Brix and ph, and at a FRACTION of the cost! Not too bad. 
But yeah it’s def a gamble for us. Especially in the fall with multiple blind options per varietal. (This aspect is what triggers my Brehms intrigue). Gotta go with our prior experiences and due diligence since we really don’t get specific info. Just country/AVA, varietal, and price. For spring it’s Chilean at ~$1.50/lb. and South African at ~$2.15/lb. (other Spring options aren’t posted yet- but I believe they all sell the same stuff)
But as we know-higher price doesn’t always = higher quality. For optimal fruit I’ve had more success with Chilean than Cali in my limited experience. Chilean fruit has been gorgeous for me. And they have a unique quality containing this stuff called ‘acid’ too[emoji6]. My previous Chileans:
2017
Cab sauv grapes 
Cab/merlot juice with cab skins
2018
Malbec grapes
Syrah juice with Malbec skins

For Cali fruit I’ve paid from $1.00/lb to as high as $2.00/lb. —Blindly buying $70 lugs & hoping for the best. Just the way it is. (Would love to drop a nut on those $3.50/lb Sonoma cab they offer one day!)
Unless ya do larger volumes and get crafty by cutting a deal straight from the suppliers like @Johnd did last year, we pretty much never know information beforehand. Nevertheless, I’m hopeful those Chileans will keep the good times rollin again this year. 

Heres all of the given info from my Chilean grape source
https://ginopinto.com/wine-grapes-juice/chilean-grape-regions/
And South African 
https://ginopinto.com/south-african-grape-region/
And for reference- here’s the menus from 2 different suppliers. (Keystone doesn’t have previous spring grapes online anymore)


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## mainshipfred (Feb 24, 2020)

CDrew said:


> And, @mainshipfred if you want to try Avante yeast for your spring grapes, I still have about 100gm I'll be happy to send your way. It's vacuum sealed and refrigerated, I'm sure it's still fine. Or I can send half to you and half to @jsbeckton.



@CDrew that's a very nice offer and I would like to take you up on it. I'll send you a PM. The local winery where I picked up my Tannat and Norton grapes from gave me some Brio for the Tannat and Maurivin for the Norton. Since I always ferment in smaller quantities to allow for the use of three yeasts I only took enough for 1/3 of the batches. I thought Maurivin was a Renaissance yeast as well but I don't think it is although it is a low H2S producing yeast. Unfortunately since I made so many varietals and used 3 yeasts each I didn't have the opportunity keep the batches separate and combined them after primary so I don't know the difference each one had.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 24, 2020)

Ok so I’ve got zero experience or knowledge of carmenere at all. Just never really paid it any mind and would dismiss it without a 2nd thought. But I finally looked into it a little and I like what I’m reading. A big red with traits of Cab sauv, merlot, and cab franc. I can dig that. 
Heading out tonight to grab a couple Chilean Carmeneres. I’m intrigued.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 24, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Ok so I’ve got zero experience or knowledge of carmenere at all. Just never really paid it any mind and would dismiss it without a 2nd thought. But I finally looked into it a little and I like what I’m reading. A big red with traits of Cab sauv, merlot, and cab franc. I can dig that.
> Heading out tonight to grab a couple Chilean Carmeneres. I’m intrigued.



I'm definitely a fan of commercial Carmenere, though the few I've made have had strong pepper notes. Not bad wines at all, but not consistent with what I buy at the store.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 24, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm definitely a fan of commercial Carmenere, though the few I've made have had strong pepper notes. Not bad wines at all, but not consistent with what I buy at the store.



Interesting. Were those that you made from Chile or elsewhere? I think I read somewhere that this grape can vary by region because some of the characteristics like pepper notes were highly influenced by climate. I’ve only got a couple of all grape batches under my belt so I’m not looking for a challenge, rather a safe bet at this point so this has me a bit worried.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 24, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Interesting. Were those that you made from Chile or elsewhere? I think I read somewhere that this grape can vary by region because some of the characteristics like pepper notes were highly influenced by climate. I’ve only got a couple of all grape batches under my belt so I’m not looking for a challenge, rather a safe bet at this point so this has me a bit worried.



Mine were all Chilean. "All" = "3". Granted, my most recent batch is quite enjoyable. But there is a distinct presence of pepper - black pepper, that is - not the vegetal green pepper notes.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 24, 2020)

Anyone have any experience with Chilean Syrah or Malbec (or a blend)? I’ve been wanting to make a Syrah so if the Carménère can be challenging maybe this is the time to do so.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 25, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Anyone have any experience with Chilean Syrah or Malbec (or a blend)? I’ve been wanting to make a Syrah so if the Carménère can be challenging maybe this is the time to do so.



I'm not sure the Carmenere is challenging as much as it's a different flavor profile. You might just want to read up on what the different yeasts offer. Can't help you with the Syrah or Malbec though.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 25, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Anyone have any experience with Chilean Syrah or Malbec (or a blend)? I’ve been wanting to make a Syrah so if the Carménère can be challenging maybe this is the time to do so.



I actually think the Chilean grapes are a lot less challenging for us. Because really, what’s the most complicated aspect with grapes? I’d say acid adjustments—making the right decisions and dosing properly and whatnot. 
But the Chilean fruit so far for me has been ideal. 2018 Malbec was 3.3ph/24.5brix and my 2017 cab was 3.5ph and around 24brix. And healthy fruit overall. 
There was some discussion about so2 pads/gas from shipping and potentially causing issues for mlf for some people. But all mine went fine with co-inoculations. I tested the Malbec at crush. It was something like 15ppm. So for all intents and purposes- ideal conditions across the board.


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## Mario Dinis (Feb 25, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> So in other words- Fred is correct!
> Multiple options, direct contact with the vineyard, often known Brix and ph, and at a FRACTION of the cost! Not too bad.
> But yeah it’s def a gamble for us. Especially in the fall with multiple blind options per varietal. (This aspect is what triggers my Brehms intrigue). Gotta go with our prior experiences and due diligence since we really don’t get specific info. Just country/AVA, varietal, and price. For spring it’s Chilean at ~$1.50/lb. and South African at ~$2.15/lb. (other Spring options aren’t posted yet- but I believe they all sell the same stuff)
> But as we know-higher price doesn’t always = higher quality. For optimal fruit I’ve had more success with Chilean than Cali in my limited experience. Chilean fruit has been gorgeous for me. And they have a unique quality containing this stuff called ‘acid’ too[emoji6]. My previous Chileans:
> ...





Ajmassa said:


> So in other words- Fred is correct!
> Multiple options, direct contact with the vineyard, often known Brix and ph, and at a FRACTION of the cost! Not too bad.
> But yeah it’s def a gamble for us. Especially in the fall with multiple blind options per varietal. (This aspect is what triggers my Brehms intrigue). Gotta go with our prior experiences and due diligence since we really don’t get specific info. Just country/AVA, varietal, and price. For spring it’s Chilean at ~$1.50/lb. and South African at ~$2.15/lb. (other Spring options aren’t posted yet- but I believe they all sell the same stuff)
> But as we know-higher price doesn’t always = higher quality. For optimal fruit I’ve had more success with Chilean than Cali in my limited experience. Chilean fruit has been gorgeous for me. And they have a unique quality containing this stuff called ‘acid’ too[emoji6]. My previous Chileans:
> ...



I really have to visit Gino Pinto. I want to make a Malbec so bad and the price of the juice is not bad at all.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 28, 2020)

Well. After much thought I decided that I really want to make a Syrah so pulled the trigger on 108# of that today. Looking forward to it!


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## Ajmassa (Feb 28, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Well. After much thought I decided that I really want to make a Syrah so pulled the trigger on 108# of that today. Looking forward to it!



Nice! I’m pretty sure your supplier imports the same Curico Chilean fruit as mine. I remember that winemaking YT channel did Chileans w/ the same lugs and labels. He’s from Pittsburgh & I doubt there’s a plethora of Pittsburg Chilean options. He’s on the forum but forget his username. 
Never got Syrah grapes but I did one from juice with active Malbec skins and I’m extremely pleased with it. We’ve been mulling our options as well and will likely do a Malbec again.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 28, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Nice! I’m pretty sure your supplier imports the same Curico Chilean fruit as mine. I remember that winemaking YT channel did Chileans w/ the same lugs and labels. He’s from Pittsburgh & I doubt there’s a plethora of Pittsburg Chilean options. He’s on the forum but forget his username.
> Never got Syrah grapes but I did one from juice with active Malbec skins and I’m extremely pleased with it. We’ve been mulling our options as well and will likely do a Malbec again.



I had a commercial Chilean Malbec tonight for dinner....and it almost....almost...changed my mind! However, I’ve had an itch to make a Syrah for awhile now and it was just time to scratch it. Will probably do a Malbec next year.


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## CDrew (Feb 28, 2020)

Good choice.

I've made a Syrah from local grapes the last 3 years. It's a deep, dark, tannic, interesting wine. Just my opinion, it takes a long time to mature and worth the wait.


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## jsbeckton (Feb 28, 2020)

CDrew said:


> Good choice.
> 
> I've made a Syrah from local grapes the last 3 years. It's a deep, dark, tannic, interesting wine. Just my opinion, it takes a long time to mature and worth the wait.



I’ve got a stockpile of about 4-5 years of wine ahead of it which is one of the reasons I went that direction. Really want something tannic that will age well.


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## mainshipfred (Mar 15, 2020)

Well I bit the bullet and went S. African even though the cost is considerably more. I talked to Gino Pinto's Mike at the Eastern Winery Expo and he told me this year's harvest season was again very dry. Ordered 8 lugs each of Cab and Syrah. Supposed to be in mid April.


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## JoP (Mar 16, 2020)

Mario Dinis said:


> I really have to visit Gino Pinto. I want to make a Malbec so bad and the price of the juice is not bad at all.[/QUOTE
> Hello Mario and all,
> Does anyone of you know a supplier of Chilean grapes in California? Thanks


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## jsbeckton (Mar 16, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> Well I bit the bullet and went S. African even though the cost is considerably more. I talked to Gino Pinto's Mike at the Eastern Winery Expo and he told me this year's harvest season was again very dry. Ordered 8 lugs each of Cab and Syrah. Supposed to be in mid April.



Nice. Will that be a field blend or 2 varietals?


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## mainshipfred (Mar 16, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Nice. Will that be a field blend or 2 varietals?



No, I have yet to do a field blend. Just feel more comfortable blending finished wines.


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## porkchopmessiah (Mar 17, 2020)

I will be heading to pintos for sure, my job is shutting down till he virus issues are over so I dont have much to do....


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## Ajmassa (Mar 17, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> Well I bit the bullet and went S. African even though the cost is considerably more. I talked to Gino Pinto's Mike at the Eastern Winery Expo and he told me this year's harvest season was again very dry. Ordered 8 lugs each of Cab and Syrah. Supposed to be in mid April.



Did You mean Chilean harvest had the dry season or the SA harvest?


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## mainshipfred (Mar 18, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Did You mean Chilean harvest had the dry season or the SA harvest?



South African, he didn't have any information on the Chilean yet.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 19, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> South African, he didn't have any information on the Chilean yet.



Hoping our spring grape season isn’t cancelled this year. Haven’t looked into any information regarding it yet. (I’m assuming we are all in the same boat. Buyers, suppliers, distributors) Going to place an order soon and hope for the best.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 19, 2020)

This was in the Musto email from 3 days ago. Fingers crossed For grapes ..... (and also for avoiding a full global economic collapse)


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## Mario Dinis (Mar 20, 2020)

I've also received their email. Fingers crossed.


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## mainshipfred (Mar 20, 2020)

This was from Gino Pinto's, similar info about South African.

March 19, 2020

To Our Loyal Customers & Winemakers:

Gino Pinto Inc. has been closely monitoring the current situation related to the corona virus COVID- 19 outbreak. During this time, our main priority is to remain committed to the health and safety of our customers and staff.

We are participating in the guidelines provided by the Centers for the Disease Control (CDC), Occupations Safety and Health Association (OSHA) and our State and Local Health Departments and implementing extra precautionary methods to maintain a safe environment.

As of right now, COVID-19 has not affected the South African or Chilean wine grape harvest. We are still on track to receive grapes and juice in March, April & May and will continue to take orders. We are continuously evaluating the situation and are making every effort to manage this process safely and proactively and will make any modifications necessary.

We value open communication with our customers, please feel free to call us at 609-561-8199 or email at [email protected] with any questions or concerns.

As a small business, we appreciate your support and we sincerely wish good health for you and your families during these uncertain times.

Sincerely,

Gino Pinto, Inc


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## porkchopmessiah (Mar 20, 2020)

Mario Dinis said:


> I've also received their email. Fingers crossed.


Do you know if that place in Elizabeth is getting grapes from south America?


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## porkchopmessiah (Mar 20, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Anyone have any experience with Chilean Syrah or Malbec (or a blend)? I’ve been wanting to make a Syrah so if the Carménère can be challenging maybe this is the time to do so.


My first wine from juice buckets was syrah and sangiovese... I blended 66% 33% both ways....the 66 syrah 33 sangiovese was really good and I'll be doing it with grapes when available


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## Ajmassa (Mar 21, 2020)

porkchopmessiah said:


> Do you know if that place in Elizabeth is getting grapes from south America?



Pretty sure that joint only sells the Regina juice in the fall. And no grapes. The only other places selling Regina juice around here are Procacci Bros in Philly and another place in NY state. Assuming they’re supplied from one of them and neither of which sell spring harvest.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 21, 2020)

2020 Spring plan:

22 half lugs Malbec 
4 half lugs Petite Verdot
Bucket of Cab Franc
Bucket of Cab Sauv

Pressing off 7-8 gallons right away for a Malbec Rosè. And looking for at least 20gal of Malbec single varietal. 

Freezing:
Cab Franc bucket
Cab Sauv bucket
PV lugs (hope my freezer can fit it all!)

After Malbec pressed 
Malbec skins - PV lug - franc bucket
Malbec skins - PV lug - cab sauv bucket
*combining later likely

Targets:
20gal+ Malbec 
6gal+ Malbec rosè
16gal+ franc/sauv/PV

I feel good about this. (Not calculating price. I cover just my ears and hand her my card at pickup)


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## mainshipfred (Mar 22, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> 2020 Spring plan:
> 
> 22 half lugs Malbec
> 4 half lugs Petite Verdot
> ...



That's a big spring order. How close are you to Gino Pinto since my grapes will probably be coming in before yours.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 22, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> 2020 Spring plan:
> 
> 22 half lugs Malbec
> 4 half lugs Petite Verdot
> ...



Why are you freezing?


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## Saxton Cellars (Mar 22, 2020)

I plan on trying a 50% Cab and %0% Carmenere in May. I want to try something different. Las year I made 100% Malbec and was very happy with it.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 22, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> That's a big spring order. How close are you to Gino Pinto since my grapes will probably be coming in before yours.



Close enough to come meet up!
(Less than an hour away) 




Boatboy24 said:


> Why are you freezing?



I’ll be picking all up at the same time likely. Freezing so I can wait till the main Malbec batch is pressed to use the active skins in with the juice/PV batches.

I did this in ‘18 with 300lbs worth of skins into one juice bucket. It was damn near sludge! But ended up with a very delicious wine.


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## Bubba1 (Mar 23, 2020)

porkchopmessiah said:


> Do you know if that place in Elizabeth is getting grapes from south America?


If you mean Europa Pombalanse they never had chillian grapes in the past and Corados is a hit and miss ( mostly miss ) I just order and take a ride to Gino Pinto and not stress over it.


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## Mario Dinis (Mar 24, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Pretty sure that joint only sells the Regina juice in the fall. And no grapes. The only other places selling Regina juice around here are Procacci Bros in Philly and another place in NY state. Assuming they’re supplied from one of them and neither of which sell spring harvest.


They do sell grapes


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## Mario Dinis (Mar 24, 2020)

I just ordered some malbec juice from Gino Pinto's. Good price.


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## Bubba1 (Mar 24, 2020)

I have 20 half lugs of malbec on order from Gino Pinto and will probably get to juice pails of some white I haven't decided what kind yet they told me the chilean will be in first week of May.


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## Bubba1 (Mar 24, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> I did this in ‘18 with 300lbs worth of skins into one juice bucket. It was damn near sludge! But ended up with a very delicious wine.


Sounds like a great idea now you got me thinking.


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## Mario Dinis (Mar 25, 2020)

porkchopmessiah said:


> Do you know if that place in Elizabeth is getting grapes from south America?


They do sell grapes, but I don't know about Chilean ones.


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## Jal5 (Mar 30, 2020)

Chilean juice bucket cab sauv. I would like to add some skins but not sure about that yet.


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## jsbeckton (Apr 3, 2020)

Just heard from CFP winemakers that As of now the Chilean grapes are still supposed to arrive on schedule in mid-May. Hope this holds true!


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## mainshipfred (Apr 4, 2020)

South African are due mid this month.


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## montanarick (Apr 5, 2020)

anyone aware of anybody that will ship juice pails?


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## bstnh1 (Apr 6, 2020)

montanarick said:


> anyone aware of anybody that will ship juice pails?


Musto Wine Grape Co. in CT will ship volume orders via freight and will ship individual pails of frozen juice. Frozen Must and Juice


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## montanarick (Apr 6, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Musto Wine Grape Co. in CT will ship volume orders via freight and will ship individual pails of frozen juice. Frozen Must and Juice


well i went to their site and yes they will ship but the cost of shipping is astronomical - more than the price of the juice pail at least to Montana


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## mainshipfred (Apr 11, 2020)

When I went to the Eastern Winery Expo in March the cut off for S. African was March 6. I emailed them earlier in the week and they were still taking orders. They told me they order based on previous years demand and not by pre orders. Wondering if people not working due to COVID 19 has taken a toll on their sales.


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## crushday (Apr 11, 2020)

@montanarick - check out winegrapesdirect.com or brehmvineyards.com - both are in metro Portland, Or and I bet shipping isn’t bad. It’s not juice though but frozen must.


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## montanarick (Apr 11, 2020)

crushday said:


> @montanarick - check out winegrapesdirect.com or brehmvineyards.com - both are in metro Portland, Or and I bet shipping isn’t bad. It’s not juice though but frozen must.


thanks - will do


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## Mario Dinis (Apr 29, 2020)

Any news from Gino Pinto?


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## Ajmassa (Apr 29, 2020)

Mario Dinis said:


> Any news from Gino Pinto?


Last time I spoke with them was about a week and a half ago. Told me they expected grapes and juice to begin arriving after May 8th.


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## mainshipfred (Apr 29, 2020)

Pressed the Shiraz yesterday and go almost 15 gallons out of 162 lbs with very little fall out as of today. ABV almost 14%, very dark and tannic. Probably press the Cab tomorrow and hope I get close to the same yield.


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## Mario Dinis (Apr 30, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Last time I spoke with them was about a week and a half ago. Told me they expected grapes and juice to begin arriving after May 8th.


I can't wait for them to tell me to go pick up my order.


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## jsbeckton (Apr 30, 2020)

Just got a call today from CFP Produce in Pittsburgh. The Chilean grapes will be ready May15th but they are limited to a certain number of pickups each hour and each day. I Was able to grab the first time slot.

Planning to do a 3-5 day cold soak On my Syrah this time and split the batch in half with BM4x4 a d RC-212.


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## Ajmassa (May 3, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Just got a call today from CFP Produce in Pittsburgh. The Chilean grapes will be ready May15th but they are limited to a certain number of pickups each hour and each day. I Was able to grab the first time slot.
> 
> Planning to do a 3-5 day cold soak On my Syrah this time and split the batch in half with BM4x4 a d RC-212.


Have you tried ordering ML yet? Or any other chems? Curious if you or anyone had any issues due to restrictions. Website says to expect delays and an emailed ETA upon ordering. I need to load up Yeast, testing reagents, ml, nutrients, enzymes etc etc. fingers crossed morewine is smooth sailing.


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## jsbeckton (May 3, 2020)

I have another packet of ML from last fall. They did say you have to pre-order any yeast or other items you want because it’s a “no transaction” pickup where everything must be pre-paid so they can get you in and out. I’m all set, just need those Syrah grapes!


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## mainshipfred (May 4, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Have you tried ordering ML yet? Or any other chems? Curious if you or anyone had any issues due to restrictions. Website says to expect delays and an emailed ETA upon ordering. I need to load up Yeast, testing reagents, ml, nutrients, enzymes etc etc. fingers crossed morewine is smooth sailing.



If anyone will be smooth sailing it will be Morewine. Fortunately I ordered everything I needed early. I did order some R56 yeast from Adventures in Homebrewing on April 17th and still haven't received it.


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## Bubba1 (May 4, 2020)

I spoke to Gino Pinto this morning and my chilean malbec grapes are in and Im picking them up tomorrow morning they also have yeast and liquid MLF bacteria if anyone is interested I already have vp 41 from morewine.


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## Mario Dinis (May 4, 2020)

Picked up my Malbec from Gino Pinto this Saturday, what a ride, and I'm about to do a split batch with D80 and D254. These yeast packages are 8 grams each. It says to add a gram per gallon. I two 6 gallon buckets of juice, therefore 6 grams each. Would it be a problem if I use the entire 8 gram packet on each or should I really only use 6 grams? All my previous packages have been 6 grams.


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## mainshipfred (May 4, 2020)

Wouldn't hurt anything, in fact 1.25 grams per gallon is recommended if the Brix is 25 or higher.


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## Mario Dinis (May 4, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> Wouldn't hurt anything, in fact 1.25 grams per gallon is recommended if the Brix is 25 or higher.


Thanks, it's actually 21.5. Should I dump the whole 8 grams?


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## Boatboy24 (May 4, 2020)

Mario Dinis said:


> Thanks, it's actually 21.5. Should I dump the whole 8 grams?



I would. You may want to consider chapitalizing that as well. 21.5 is low for a Malbec, IMHO.


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## Mario Dinis (May 4, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> I would. You may want to consider chapitalizing that as well. 21.5 is low for a Malbec, IMHO.


Thanks. The specific gravity is 1.090, so 21.6 brix. How much sugar do you recommend?


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## Ajmassa (May 4, 2020)

Mario Dinis said:


> Thanks. The specific gravity is 1.090, so 21.6 brix. How much sugar do you recommend?




I would definitely. About 3lbs gets you 1.100 sg. Would hover right around 14%abv rather than 12
You can dump in and stir or boil mix with water to make simple syrup for easy mixing.
Most buckets are pre balanced and seem to always fall at 1.090 Bump it up!

and btw every time I use that fermCalc the numbers are always right on the money.


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## Mario Dinis (May 4, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> View attachment 60809
> 
> I would definitely. About 3lbs gets you 1.100 sg. Would hover right around 14%abv rather than 12
> You can dump in and stir or boil mix with water to make simple syrup for easy mixing.
> ...


Thanks. I already added the yeast about an hour ago. Is it too late to add sugar?


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## Ajmassa (May 4, 2020)

Mario Dinis said:


> Thanks. I already added the yeast about an hour ago. Is it too late to add sugar?


Might hear mixed replies on this one. I wouldn’t hesitate to do it tho. These buckets ferment with ease. Adding sugar and mixing would disturb the yeast but tbh it takes a whole helluva lot to stop them. So if you do it right away I think your good. 
going the simple syrup route would be best since would need minimal stirring to mix. And you got at least a day or 2 before sg would be dropping so you can still accurately test the new sg targeted at 1.100. Adding a shit if DAP or nutrient wouldn’t hurt either but not crucial
If concerned Another option would be to wait till visibly fermenting before adding.


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## Mario Dinis (May 4, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Might hear mixed replies on this one. I wouldn’t hesitate to do it tho. These buckets ferment with ease. Adding sugar and mixing would disturb the yeast but tbh it takes a whole helluva lot to stop them. So if you do it right away I think your good.
> going the simple syrup route would be best since would need minimal stirring to mix. And you got at least a day or 2 before sg would be dropping so you can still accurately test the new sg targeted at 1.100. Adding a shit if DAP or nutrient wouldn’t hurt either but not crucial
> If concerned Another option would be to wait till visibly fermenting before adding.


Well, I just added some sugar. It'snot fermenting yet, so I think I added on time. Checked SG and came up to 1.094, so 13 abv.


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## sour_grapes (May 4, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Adding a shit if DAP or nutrient wouldn’t hurt either but not crucial



Ahem, I _believe_ that Anthony meant "Adding a SHOT OF dap or nutrient..."


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## Mario Dinis (May 4, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> Ahem, I _believe_ that Anthony meant "Adding a SHOT OF dap or nutrient..."


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## Ajmassa (May 4, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> Ahem, I _believe_ that Anthony meant "Adding a SHOT OF dap or nutrient..."



Lol yes. A Shot of DAP...
Do not take a sh*t in your wine!

Thank you Paul

And btw my stuffs in as well. Picking up Friday. this earlier than expected shipment caught me by surprise. 
Getting 22 lugs Malbec (pressing some for rosè)
Bucket of cab franc and cab sav
4 lugs of petite Verdot.
Might combine both buckets together from the jump. If I can fit 2 buckets and PV in the freezer then will use the active Malbec skins to kick it off a week later. Otherwise will use the rosè skins into this franc/sauv/PV/Malbec Frankenstein wine and ferment alongside the rest.

got a helper for the day too. Very stoked about that. Crush day is a lot of cleanup. Looking forward to spending it with the old man. Been 1.5yrs since my last crush!


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## CDrew (May 4, 2020)

22 lugs sounds like a lot. Roughly 400 pounds(thinking 18 x 22?) How much Rosè? You are doing it Saignee style?

Sounds fun. My rosè was an unexpected success. It's not as pink as I would like but it tastes good and ready in 6 months. There's a good lesson here. I'm going longer on the skins this year (2020), and going for more acid this year, but it works and makes an easy drinking wine quickly. You can see why new wineries put out a quick Rosè and a couple of white wines their first year-to get some cash coming in while you wait for the reds.


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## Ajmassa (May 4, 2020)

CDrew said:


> 22 lugs sounds like a lot. Roughly 400 pounds(thinking 18 x 22?) How much Rosè? You are doing it Saignee style?
> 
> Sounds fun. My rosè was an unexpected success. It's not as pink as I would like but it tastes good and ready in 6 months. There's a good lesson here. I'm going longer on the skins this year (2020), and going for more acid this year, but it works and makes an easy drinking wine quickly. You can see why new wineries put out a quick Rosè and a couple of white wines their first year-to get some cash coming in while you wait for the reds.



Yep. Saignee style. gonna take off about 8gal or so to end with at least a full 6gal carboy. Never made one before and pretty much winging it. Rather than waiting for the color I may press right away and add back some color the next day to have more control. 
I accounted for the rosè in my order so I’d still have roughly 300lbs of straight Malbec still.
~30gal of must plus the extra skins. Shooting for 20 gal and change. A demi & carboy. this volume has been my comfort zone.
And these Chileans will give me my first 2 runs of the new 50L barrel. Saving Malbec for 2nd run so I can let it ride for longer.

And yes it does sound fun! Im anxious to get some fermentations cookin!


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## pgentile (May 4, 2020)

Called Gino Pintos today, picking up 12 lugs and 4 buckets of malbec on friday. Hope everyone is doing well during these times. Feeling very fortunate to be able to continue this hobby.


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## mainshipfred (May 5, 2020)

pgentile said:


> Called Gino Pintos today, picking up 12 lugs and 4 buckets of malbec on friday. Hope everyone is doing well during these times. Feeling very fortunate to be able to continue this hobby.



Sure wish I could meet up with you but I only got S African this year and picked it up a couple weeks ago. Did have a chance to met up with AJ though so that was nice. Should it work out I gave him a bottle of last years Chilean Pinot Noir for you.


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## Ajmassa (May 5, 2020)

pgentile said:


> Called Gino Pintos today, picking up 12 lugs and 4 buckets of malbec on friday. Hope everyone is doing well during these times. Feeling very fortunate to be able to continue this hobby.


Yo Paul!!! What’s good brotha?! 
I’ll shoot you a text today. With prevention measures in place we had to schedule the pickup with about an hour window. I’m supposed to be up there between 8:00am and 9:00am on Friday.


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## Bubba1 (May 5, 2020)

I picked up my malbec today from Gino Pinto at 9:30 this morning the parking lot and loading dock was completely empty real strange site to see any way the fruit looked great hardly any raisined grapes and no rot at all


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## Ajmassa (May 5, 2020)

YES!! They look GORGEOUS!!!
Great to hear. Keep us posted on the #’s and progress if ya want. 

Also you still plan on freezing a bucket for later?


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## Bubba1 (May 5, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Also you still plan on freezing a bucket for later?


I decided to get 2 pino gris pails instead of a malbec I really have no place to freeze a pail but my kegerator and that has a keg of Lagunitas IPA in it right now. as for the grapes me and my son picked up 20 box's I think 360 lbs already crushed and in the fermenters waiting to warm up before I pitch yeast tomorrow I am really happy with the quality of the grapes I'll let you guys know how things move along.


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## Saxton Cellars (May 6, 2020)

I just emptied two barrels and headed to Gino's on Friday to fill them back up


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## porkchopmessiah (May 6, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Lol yes. A Shot of DAP...
> Do not take a sh*t in your wine!
> 
> Thank you Paul
> ...


ill be heading down sat. morning...does pinto carry ML cultures?


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## pgentile (May 6, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> Sure wish I could meet up with you but I only got S African this year and picked it up a couple weeks ago. Did have a chance to met up with AJ though so that was nice. Should it work out I gave him a bottle of last years Chilean Pinot Noir for you.


Well thank you sir. What did you get this year? How was the fruit quality?


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## pgentile (May 6, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Yo Paul!!! What’s good brotha?!
> I’ll shoot you a text today. With prevention measures in place we had to schedule the pickup with about an hour window. I’m supposed to be up there between 8:00am and 9:00am on Friday.


Yo dude, the stars aren't aligning I had to move my pick-up to saturday morning.


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## mainshipfred (May 8, 2020)

pgentile said:


> Well thank you sir. What did you get this year? How was the fruit quality?



The usual Cab Sauv but this time from Breed River and Shiraz from Stellenbosch. Last years Cab is not impressing me yet. Hope this year's Cab is as good as the 2018.


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## MiBor (May 9, 2020)

I think I'm going to give up on Chilean grapes and juice. For the past couple of years I've been less than impressed with the quality of the Chilean harvest. I would like to buy some South African or Australian/New Zealand grapes for the spring winemaking season but the closest source I found is about 10 hours away.


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## porkchopmessiah (May 10, 2020)

Got the grapes and crushed last night, just added Yeast and nutrient


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## jsbeckton (May 13, 2020)

Just picked up the Syrah this morning!
Haven’t crushed yet but snagged a few grapes from each box and threw them in a food processor. The filtered juice revealed the following (freshly calibrated pH meter):

pH=3.59
TA=0.41
SG=21.75 brix

Will recheck everything post crush to confirm but if I get the same results I think I’m going to bump up to 24-25 brix because I like big reds.

I’m also tempted to add a bit of tartaric acid to drop pH to 3.5 and since TA is low should be ok.

Any opinions?

Thanks!


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Just picked up the Syrah this morning!
> Haven’t crushed yet but snagged a few grapes from each box and threw them in a food processor. The filtered juice revealed the following (freshly calibrated pH meter):
> 
> pH=3.59
> ...



I would want to bump the brix as well, but as you mentioned, recheck everything post crush and a 24 hr soak. TA adjustment is probably warranted as well, though I'd err on the conservative side so as not to go too low.

Edit: by "too low" I meant driving the pH too low.


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## Ajmassa (May 13, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Just picked up the Syrah this morning!
> Haven’t crushed yet but snagged a few grapes from each box and threw them in a food processor. The filtered juice revealed the following (freshly calibrated pH meter):
> 
> pH=3.59
> ...



Nice!
Good luck today. 

Yes and yes. 
For reference my acid #’s moved almost double the addition- as we all know & account for. 
1.25g/L addition moved ph 3.83 to 3.66
TA 4.05 to 6.00
Sugar bump went as calculated.
22 to 24ish


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## jsbeckton (May 13, 2020)

Thanks for the feedback.

I overdid a acid adjustment last spring so I’m a bit gunshy now. I added just 1/4th what I think is needed and will check the results tomorrow.


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## cmason1957 (May 13, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I overdid a acid adjustment last spring so I’m a bit gunshy now. I added just 1/4th what I think is needed and will check the results tomorrow.



Always a great idea.




Ajmassa said:


> Nice!
> Good luck today.
> 
> Yes and yes.
> ...



@Ajmassa I'm not sure what you mean by almost double the addition as we all know and account for?? I almost never know how much my pH is going to change based on an acid addition. Buffering and all that kind of issue.


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## Ajmassa (May 13, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> @Ajmassa I'm not sure what you mean by almost double the addition as we all know and account for?? I almost never know how much my pH is going to change based on an acid addition. Buffering and all that kind of issue.


Edit 2. Sober now. Just meant Adding 1/2 what ya may need since in reality the levels can move double what you add. And ballparking the ph to move down .1 for every 1g/l TA moves up.


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## zadvocate (May 14, 2020)

As always I say I am not going to do Chiliean wine this year then, I do. I decided to make a rose from Pinot Noir.
The grapes looked beautiful. I crushed and pressed yesterday and its now settling in my fridge. I really need a bladder press. I only got about 4.5 gallons out of 90 pounds.


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## jsbeckton (May 14, 2020)

zadvocate said:


> As always I say I am not going to do Chiliean wine this year then, I do. I decided to make a rose from Pinot Noir.
> The grapes looked beautiful. I crushed and pressed yesterday and its now settling in my fridge. I really need a bladder press. I only got about 4.5 gallons out of 90 pounds.


Wow. What was your pre-press volume? Last year I got about 8 gallons out of 118 pounds of Chilean Merlot with a bucket press and didn’t even press that hard.

I never bother to actually weigh the grapes but maybe they vary quite a bit.


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## Ajmassa (May 14, 2020)

zadvocate said:


> As always I say I am not going to do Chiliean wine this year then, I do. I decided to make a rose from Pinot Noir.
> The grapes looked beautiful. I crushed and pressed yesterday and its now settling in my fridge. I really need a bladder press. I only got about 4.5 gallons out of 90 pounds.


Very cool. Pinot makes such a great rosè. 
But wow that yield does sound extra light. I’m popping my rosè cherry right now with Malbec. Friday I crushed 8 lugs/144lbs and got almost 11gal with a ratchet press. Pressed hard and cake was still very wet too.


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## mainshipfred (May 14, 2020)

zadvocate said:


> As always I say I am not going to do Chiliean wine this year then, I do. I decided to make a rose from Pinot Noir.
> The grapes looked beautiful. I crushed and pressed yesterday and its now settling in my fridge. I really need a bladder press. I only got about 4.5 gallons out of 90 pounds.



I just bottled my 2019 Chilean Pinot Noir and ended up with 55 bottles of finished wine with 144 lbs and that is with leaving it in a barrel for over 8 months. Don't know what I lost to the angels. This Spring I got over 14 gallons each of wine after press and first racking with 162 lbs but this was S. African Cab and Shiraz. If you remove the skins, fluff them up and repress you'd be surprised how much additional wine you get. Just curious did you use enzymes.


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## zadvocate (May 15, 2020)

Yes I did use enzymes. I let it sit for 6 hours. I am going to purchase a small bladder press and not have this yield issue again. While I wanted more I think I ended up with about 4.5 gallons. 
So I tested my juice today and the Ph was 3.85 and the TA 2.8! i added 30 grams tartaric and it came down to 3.5 and a TA of 4. Has anyone had that issue?

I dont know if the number is accurate or not. Ugh winemaking. Lol.


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## ceeaton (May 15, 2020)

zadvocate said:


> Yes I did use enzymes. I let it sit for 6 hours. I am going to purchase a small bladder press and not have this yield issue again. While I wanted more I think I ended up with about 4.5 gallons.
> So I tested my juice today and the Ph was 3.85 and the TA 2.8! i added 30 grams tartaric and it came down to 3.5 and a TA of 4. Has anyone had that issue?
> 
> I dont know if the number is accurate or not. Ugh winemaking. Lol.


You can get a solution to check your TA testing solutions, I know @ibglowin would remember what it's called. Your solutions will lose their potency pretty quick, this solution helps you to get a new reading for the multiplier, or divisor, can't remember, so that you can get a more accurate test.

Sorry, it's a nice day out and I'm too lazy to even get up for another beer. If no one chimes in with the solution I'll get off my butt and go scan the directions I got from PI Wines and post them.

Edit: Okay, I shamed myself into getting off my butt.


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## zadvocate (May 15, 2020)

ceeaton said:


> You can get a solution to check your TA testing solutions, I know @ibglowin would remember what it's called. Your solutions will lose their potency pretty quick, this solution helps you to get a new reading for the multiplier, or divisor, can't remember, so that you can get a more accurate test.
> 
> Sorry, it's a nice day out and I'm too lazy to even get up for another beer. If no one chimes in with the solution I'll get off my butt and go scan the directions I got from PI Wines and post them.
> 
> Edit: Okay, I shamed myself into getting off my butt.


Thanks, I will take a look. But if my chemical was getting old the numbers would be artifically higher so I am guessing these Chilean grapes are unusually low on acid this year.


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## Ajmassa (May 15, 2020)

zadvocate said:


> Thanks, I will take a look. But if my chemical was getting old the numbers would be artifically higher so I am guessing these Chilean grapes are unusually low on acid this year.


Seems to be that way. Definitely lower than typical TAs judging by different posts of Chilean fruit so far. Not crazy. But definitely lower than it normally has been.


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## jsbeckton (May 15, 2020)

zadvocate said:


> Thanks, I will take a look. But if my chemical was getting old the numbers would be artifically higher so I am guessing these Chilean grapes are unusually low on acid this year.


My Chilean Merlot was about 4 last year and saw pretty much the same with the Syrah this year so 2/2 on low acid for me!


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## pgentile (May 15, 2020)

Finally got to Gino Pinto's today. 8 lugs and 4 pails of malbec. Fruit looks great, pick up was easy. Crushed and soaking with enzymes.


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## jsbeckton (May 15, 2020)

Curious, do you combine the grapes and buckets or keep separate?


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## pgentile (May 15, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> Curious, do you combine the grapes and buckets or keep separate?


I usually do a few all grape batches and buckets on the skins after press. This year lugs and buckets together single ferment and then more buckets on the skins after press.


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## jsbeckton (May 15, 2020)

I did that last year but found the bucket/skin combo to be a bit thin for my liking. Still better than any kit though so not a bad deal for cost of a bucket. I have tried buckets alone without any skins and found them to be super thin so it certainly makes a difference.


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## pgentile (May 16, 2020)

jsbeckton said:


> I did that last year but found the bucket/skin combo to be a bit thin for my liking. Still better than any kit though so not a bad deal for cost of a bucket. I have tried buckets alone without any skins and found them to be super thin so it certainly makes a difference.



I agree, but I have found 2 lugs to a bucket and long soak gets pretty close to all grape. And the price point this way ends up around $2.50 per bottle.


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## eightysixCJ (May 16, 2020)

Greetings all, 

16-lugs of Chilean Merlot from Gino Pinto. Very quick curb-side pickup but missed socially hanging around. Brix came in around 18.5 so added sugar to get it to 23.5. pH 3.3. Very nice looking grapes.

Tom


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## porkchopmessiah (May 22, 2020)

eightysixCJ said:


> Greetings all,
> 
> 16-lugs of Chilean Merlot from Gino Pinto. Very quick curb-side pickup but missed socially hanging around. Brix came in around 18.5 so added sugar to get it to 23.5. pH 3.3. Very nice looking grapes.
> 
> Tom


I agree...I picked up 15 from gino...good looking fruit...in some ways looks better than the california crops


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## pgentile (May 22, 2020)

7 days since crush, no fruit flies what so ever this year. I guess this cool spring has kept them at bay.


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