# Peach wine - too much sediment - help



## samwisegamgeese (May 24, 2012)

Well I made wine when I was a teen from scratch but it has been 30 years

So I am now trying my hand again and I have just made a batch of peach wine. 5 gallons in 1 gallon demijohn's.

Unfortunately the amount of peach pulp that has got through my seiving (maybe need to use a cloth next time right?) has mean a 2cm cust has formed on the top of all 3 Demijohns.

The liquid seems to be a good colour and all 5 are bubbling away.

I have taken hydrometer reading and was thinking of racking after only a few days due to the crust ...what do you think?

Leave it or rack it and if so when?


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## samwisegamgeese (May 24, 2012)

Here is what they look like, plus my boy making the must


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## Deezil (May 24, 2012)

Whats the SG? 
It's currently fermenting?

Do you have a bucket that will hold ALL 5 gallons until your SG is down close to 1.000? When the wine ferments closer to 'dry', the sediment will start falling to the bottom and you can rack the wine off the top.

Sounds like an active fermentation, meaning the reason that you have "sediment" - its most likely yeast - floating to the top is because the Co2 is trying to escape, pushing the sediment up.. If you watch it, the pieces should lose their co2 at the top and start sinking down again - its a rise & fall process.

Lemme know if im on the right track here..


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## Deezil (May 24, 2012)

Lol, in that last picture, you can see the yeast falling - or rising? Depending, anyways.. Seems my hunch was right.

If you have a bucket, get all the wine transferred to the bucket and fasten a clean towel or shirt over the top. Give it a good stir, twice a day, making sure to mix in the sediment that rises - you dont want this to dry out - the process of working in the "cap" (sediment at top) is called "punching down" the cap.

In the beginning 2/3rd or so of the fermentation, the wine benefits from oxygen being stirred in. Once it gets below about 1.030 - 1.040, you want to be careful mixing in oxygen as you dont want to oxidize the wine.. Anywhere after that time, you can rack back to glass jugs & fill to the shoulder level - slightly above where they're filled to now - as the fermentation wont be so active and the cap wont be so busy making a mess.

Depending on the SG of the must & temp its sitting at, i bet you have 1-3 days left of fermenting which is plenty of time to call for transferring to a bucket.


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## Deezil (May 24, 2012)

The reason your seiving didnt work, is because the yeast multiplied again 
Thats what most of that sediment is.

Did you use fresh fruit?
Got more info on your process?


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## samwisegamgeese (May 24, 2012)

Thanks. This is really helpful and informative. 

It is fermenting well at the moment; all 5 of the demoijohns.

I used used tin peaches which sat in grape syrup which I put the syrup in as detiled by my recipe.

Some pectic enyme, nutirient, citric acid and tannin and lots of sugar!

The SG at start wss 1.07

Andy


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## samwisegamgeese (May 26, 2012)

I do not have a fermenter that large ....


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## Deezil (May 26, 2012)

What's your SG now?
Hows it looking?

Putting it all into a larger fermenter isnt exactly necessary but it helps with consistency from bottle-to-bottle and such.. It's probably fermented enough by this point that you'd want it under airlock

I know here in the US, we can have been pretty lucky asking at bakeries in our large-chain supermarkets and such for the buckets that they get their frosting in - these are food grade plastic and they just toss them out anyways.. Roughly enough for 3 US gallons or so.. You might have similiar luck there, they work good for primary fermentation


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## samwisegamgeese (May 29, 2012)

I heard what you said about the level in the demi-john's being low and so I have created some more syrup.

Will test the SG and see what change has happened.

It is still fermenting but I am getting concerned as the peach bits are losing their colour and there is a lot of peach meat in the Demijohn's.

Would you rack; using a muslin cloth and get rid of any stuff leaving a new Demijohn with no sediment?

Or would this be a bad idea?

Should I add more sugar?

Andy


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## Deezil (May 29, 2012)

I wouldnt add more sugar, that will just give you more alcohol. Your starting 1.070 was on the low side, so hopefully the syrup didnt throw you off too much - you can take +0.015, putting you at an adjusted 1.085, with no problems but if its more than 1.090 it might be a little hot, depending on the actual flavor in the peaches.

As to what to do about racking and such, we'd need to know the SG


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## samwisegamgeese (May 29, 2012)

Thanks for replying.

I will get SG but I am not racking to go to bottle I am thinking of racking to get rid of the bits of peach in the demijohn. Is this neccesary or can they stay in the liquid?

I was thinking of adding syrup/water to extend the level in the demijohn as it was too low. Is it?

Andy


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 1, 2012)

Deezil said:


> I wouldnt add more sugar, that will just give you more alcohol. Your starting 1.070 was on the low side, so hopefully the syrup didnt throw you off too much - you can take +0.015, putting you at an adjusted 1.085, with no problems but if its more than 1.090 it might be a little hot, depending on the actual flavor in the peaches.
> 
> As to what to do about racking and such, we'd need to know the SG



OK I will take SG and come back to you. What do you mean by "hot"?


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## Deezil (Jun 1, 2012)

"Hot" like... sipping vodka, if you go too far out of balance, but that burning sensation that you get when the alcohol is 'forward' / standing out from the rest of the facets of the wine - acidity, flavor, body/mouthfeel, sweetness..


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## Midwest Vintner (Jun 1, 2012)

Don't worry about the sediment. It will fall out eventually and you can rack off the top. Peach is slow to clear, so be prepared to wait. Racking over and over will only introduce O2. Do you have any other containers? It would be beneficial to get it topped up, but also, you don't want to do that when it is fermenting. It will spew out the top. lol.

I would check the SG. Rack into bucket if about 1.010 and still bubbling. It may need 02 right now and you don't want to strain the yeast because it could create off flavors. If it is under 1.05, leave it till it stops bubbling. Rack, but try and get rid of head space by either using one smaller container and topping the rest up (after racking the sediment off) or by adding marbles or something glass/food safe into them to remove the head space. I always keep all kinds of sized containers and bungs for them, for that reason. With a small commercial winery, I still am using 5 gal carboys to top up tanks with. We start with 10% more than a tank will hold and then add a carboy to top it, when they get enough room. HTH


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks I have other 1 gallons (presently they are in 1 gallon demijohns. 

How much space should I leave at the top of a Demijohn when fermenting?


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## Midwest Vintner (Jun 1, 2012)

samwisegamgeese said:


> Thanks I have other 1 gallons (presently they are in 1 gallon demijohns.
> 
> How much space should I leave at the top of a Demijohn when fermenting?



I usually wait to transfer to an airlock until it's sub 1.010, so then i actually take it closer to the top (say 2-3" from bung), but if I do transfer a little higher (might not be around to get it before it dries out), then I will take it up a half way where the top is coming to the neck (maybe 3-4" from the bung). Even then, I've had them push into the bung, but all it does it make a little mess. Never had it actually push the bung off of the top.

The trick is, to try and get it close, but not spilling out the bung. Less airspace the better. Just make sure you keep it stirred before you transfer, so it has enough 02 to finish fermenting.


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks this helps me, I will leave till finished fermenting and may get back to you.


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 4, 2012)

Midwest Vintner said:


> I usually wait to transfer to an airlock until it's sub 1.010, so then i actually take it closer to the top (say 2-3" from bung), but if I do transfer a little higher (might not be around to get it before it dries out), then I will take it up a half way where the top is coming to the neck (maybe 3-4" from the bung). Even then, I've had them push into the bung, but all it does it make a little mess. Never had it actually push the bung off of the top.
> 
> The trick is, to try and get it close, but not spilling out the bung. Less airspace the better. Just make sure you keep it stirred before you transfer, so it has enough 02 to finish fermenting.



So SG was 990 (a drop from 1080) and I put 50g sugar in half litre addition after racking off all the lees and pulp and this left me only 1000! I thought it would be more! Grr now too much liquid and not sweet enough. Any advice?


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## Deezil (Jun 4, 2012)

Watch out because theres a chance fermentation could start back up again.. Before sweetening, you should add potassium sulfite (1/4 tsp per 5 gallons if in powder form; 1 campden tablet per gallon if in tablet form) & potassium sorbate (1/2 tsp per gallon).. The potassium sulfite helps the potassium sorbate work more effectively - and the potassium sorbate is what binds itself to the yeast left in the wine, keeping them from multiplying farther and eating all the sugars.

So the sugar you added may increase the alcohol a little, unless you stabilized (steps mentioned above)

I'd advise to let it sit some, see if it referments & pick up the chemicals to stabilize it if you havent - then sweeten it to where you like it regardless of volume; just drink what doesnt fit in the carboy.. Or if its a substantial amount, put it in a 750ml bottle with a balloon on top (stretch the balloon out and pin-prick a small hole it in so when hte balloon expands, co2 can escape but when its empty the hole closes up)


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 5, 2012)

Deezil said:


> Watch out because theres a chance fermentation could start back up again.. Before sweetening, you should add potassium sulfite (1/4 tsp per 5 gallons if in powder form; 1 campden tablet per gallon if in tablet form) & potassium sorbate (1/2 tsp per gallon).. The potassium sulfite helps the potassium sorbate work more effectively - and the potassium sorbate is what binds itself to the yeast left in the wine, keeping them from multiplying farther and eating all the sugars.
> 
> So the sugar you added may increase the alcohol a little, unless you stabilized (steps mentioned above)
> 
> I'd advise to let it sit some, see if it referments & pick up the chemicals to stabilize it if you havent - then sweeten it to where you like it regardless of volume; just drink what doesnt fit in the carboy.. Or if its a substantial amount, put it in a 750ml bottle with a balloon on top (stretch the balloon out and pin-prick a small hole it in so when hte balloon expands, co2 can escape but when its empty the hole closes up)



Thank you so much this really helps.

Q. The term "backsweeten" means adding sugar when the wine has finished fermenting...is that right?


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## Deezil (Jun 5, 2012)

Right, backsweeten means to sweeten the wine after fermentation & stabilization (k-meta + sorbate) are done


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## Midwest Vintner (Jun 5, 2012)

samwisegamgeese said:


> Thank you so much this really helps.
> 
> Q. The term "backsweeten" means adding sugar when the wine has finished fermenting...is that right?



Yes, but don't move too quickly to do so. The best method, IMO, is to ferment, wait till the SG gets low (under 1.020 min), rack until clear (3-5 times), (if bulk aging in carboys, add sulphites every 3 months), after 3-6 months of the racking (about every 4-6 six weeks) AND it's clear, add sulphites/ sorbate/ inverted sugar (or juice, juice concentrate, juice with sugar), wait 2 weeks, THEN bottle. 

The waiting period is to ensure it doesn't ferment in the bottle after getting backsweetened. No one wants wine bombs. lol. Now everyone does that whole process a different, but that is my VERY general method. You could add clearing agent or filtering into there if you want it faster or it's not clearing.

Just an FYI, I've had bottle bombs. Wine is very messy and I'm glad it was stored in a place on concrete that I didn't care get stained!


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 6, 2012)

Midwest Vintner said:


> Yes, but don't move too quickly to do so. The best method, IMO, is to ferment, wait till the SG gets low (under 1.020 min), rack until clear (3-5 times), (if bulk aging in carboys, add sulphites every 3 months), after 3-6 months of the racking (about every 4-6 six weeks) AND it's clear, add sulphites/ sorbate/ inverted sugar (or juice, juice concentrate, juice with sugar), wait 2 weeks, THEN bottle.
> 
> The waiting period is to ensure it doesn't ferment in the bottle after getting backsweetened. No one wants wine bombs. lol. Now everyone does that whole process a different, but that is my VERY general method. You could add clearing agent or filtering into there if you want it faster or it's not clearing.
> 
> Just an FYI, I've had bottle bombs. Wine is very messy and I'm glad it was stored in a place on concrete that I didn't care get stained!



This is really helpful. So when see the bubbles stop....rack and then keep racking (leaving under bubbleometer) until it is clear every 4-6 weeks for months or until clear. Mine is hazy but has some sediment already so I think is still fermenting. It was only started 19th May.


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## Midwest Vintner (Jun 6, 2012)

samwisegamgeese said:


> This is really helpful. So when see the bubbles stop....rack and then keep racking (leaving under bubbleometer) until it is clear every 4-6 weeks for months or until clear. Mine is hazy but has some sediment already so I think is still fermenting. It was only started 19th May.



I try and wait about 3-5 days after the bubbles stop. It won't hurt to go a week. After you get it off the yeast (technically the third racking- primary, secondary, then a rack), time is not AS important. Just look for sediment. When sediment is accumulated over 4-6 weeks, then rack, but if it's not a whole lot in that time, you can wait a bit longer. I have waited 6-8 months with 4-5 rackings in that time.  Waiting isn't fun, but you can use clearing agents or filter. Peach is one that is VERY tough to clear. You can look into bentonite (search and find directions on usage) or filtering. I usually like waiting over using anything, but there are some wines that are just a pain. Remember to add sulphites (no sorbate) every 3 months IF you plan on waiting for over 6 months (the first not too long after the bubbles stop). Even when it stops fermenting, you will get sediment over time AND the haze may stay. Keeping the wine in a real cool place helps (think 35 F-45 F) for a month or two makes the heavy particles drop faster.

The trick is to try and rack less than 5 times because of oxidation and getting it clear without affecting taste. Rough filtering (3 micron or higher) shouldn't change flavor and some may not be affected with a 1.5 micron (depending on the wine and your own senses). It is the fine filtering (1 micron and smaller) that can affect flavor, but usually not too much. I have yet to have some that we have fine filter, age over a year though. The Isinglass (sp?) and Superclear can give a slight off flavor, but they work fast, when they are needed (there are 2 kinds of clearing agents, when one works the other shouldn't and vice versa). Knowing what is causing the cloudiness can be trial and error. Checking here should yield good info. Peach typically can be cleared with bentonite.


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 7, 2012)

Midwest Vintner said:


> I try and wait about 3-5 days after the bubbles stop. It won't hurt to go a week. After you get it off the yeast (technically the third racking- primary, secondary, then a rack), time is not AS important. Just look for sediment. When sediment is accumulated over 4-6 weeks, then rack, but if it's not a whole lot in that time, you can wait a bit longer. I have waited 6-8 months with 4-5 rackings in that time.  Waiting isn't fun, but you can use clearing agents or filter. Peach is one that is VERY tough to clear. You can look into bentonite (search and find directions on usage) or filtering. I usually like waiting over using anything, but there are some wines that are just a pain. Remember to add sulphites (no sorbate) every 3 months IF you plan on waiting for over 6 months (the first not too long after the bubbles stop). Even when it stops fermenting, you will get sediment over time AND the haze may stay. Keeping the wine in a real cool place helps (think 35 F-45 F) for a month or two makes the heavy particles drop faster.
> 
> 
> 
> The trick is to try and rack less than 5 times because of oxidation and getting it clear without affecting taste. Rough filtering (3 micron or higher) shouldn't change flavor and some may not be affected with a 1.5 micron (depending on the wine and your own senses). It is the fine filtering (1 micron and smaller) that can affect flavor, but usually not too much. I have yet to have some that we have fine filter, age over a year though. The Isinglass (sp?) and Superclear can give a slight off flavor, but they work fast, when they are needed (there are 2 kinds of clearing agents, when one works the other shouldn't and vice versa). Knowing what is causing the cloudiness can be trial and error. Checking here should yield good info. Peach typically can be cleared with bentonite.



Thank you this again is really helpful. May I ask "Remember to add sulphites (no sorbate) every 3 months IF you plan on waiting for over 6 months" What are sulphites?


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## Midwest Vintner (Jun 7, 2012)

samwisegamgeese said:


> Thank you this again is really helpful. May I ask "Remember to add sulphites (no sorbate) every 3 months IF you plan on waiting for over 6 months" What are sulphites?



Another term for the k-meta. The full term is Potassium MetabiSULPHITE, so I usually say, "sulphites," but type k-meta. lol. There is actually sodium metabisulphite that works the same though.


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 7, 2012)

Once again many thanks. Where is "MO"?


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## Midwest Vintner (Jun 8, 2012)

samwisegamgeese said:


> Once again many thanks. Where is "MO"?



Virtually right in the center of the United States.

http://www.missouriwinecountry.com/articles/history/


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 17, 2012)

Disaster!!!! Help!! I have tried the wine...it has a very slight taste of peace and is alcholic but is very watery.....

Where did I go wrong?

How can I rescue???


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## Deezil (Jun 17, 2012)

Keep in mind, its very young.

The alcohol taste is upfront in young wines & will settle down over time... As it settles down, the flavors will start to come out and it wont seem as watery.

Patience is the key now, you gotta let it age.


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## Espoir (Jun 18, 2012)

Unfortunately, in the first few months of your wine. You can never taste whether it is on the right track or not.

Just make sure it does not taste sour like vinegar and you should be fine.


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## samwisegamgeese (Jun 18, 2012)

Thank you guys I need patience. I will leave it then as you say.


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