# Late Harvest Vignoles



## Runningwolf (Oct 9, 2010)

I started two seven gallon batches of Late Harvest Vignoles yesterday with a yeast starter. I put heat belts on both of them and they started fermenting last night. Today I removed the belts as whites prefer to ferment in cooler temps and besides I needed the belts on some others. The starting sg was 1.214 so if they finish out at 1.07 like last year that will give me a sweet 18.9% abv

Steve how is yours doing and do you know your starting sg? Lets keep this thread going to keep track of whats happing. I believe julie is also going to be picking some of this up. I think they're going to run out pretty fast at only $13.00 a gallon.


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## djrockinsteve (Oct 9, 2010)

Runningwolf said:


> Steve how is yours doing and do you know your starting sg? QUOTE]
> 
> Starting gravity on all 4 was 1.090 Didn't have a recipe or know what to do for ice wine. Could I add inverted sugar now to accomplish the same thing? Is everything the same except the juice is much sweeter?
> 
> They are fermenting very slowly in the cool basement.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 9, 2010)

Dang I forgot you got just the regular Vignoles. I am not sure where you go from there to make ice wine. All the other juice I got from them was also at 1.09 which is higher than in the past. My plain Vignoles and Steubin have not started bubbling yet. I never got it this early before and I think this show the benefits. My plan is to get back up there in two weeks before julie buys them out. Current plans are to get some Cayuga and Geisenheim.


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## grapeman (Oct 9, 2010)

That must be last year's late harvest Vignoles. It was just picked recently for normal harvest and would have been in the 22-24 brix range- well below what you got Dan. You can't just add sugar to get ice wine. It needs to freeze repeatedly until around mid December to January for icewine. That concentrates the sugars and also the flavors. Sugar will just make it sweeter, not more flavorful. That is one sweet wine you got there. I bet it was great tasting.

I passed on 300 pounds of Vignoles two weeks ago - I just have too much of my own to take any more.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 9, 2010)

Rich, so help me out here. I do not believe this is last years because it was never made available. They sell it as late harvest and not ice wine due to regulations that it was not picked after being frozen on the vines as you stated or in temps below 20 degrees. I know there is a big winery here that freezes the grapes in their freezer then presses them. They sell it in 375 bottles but it is not labeled ice wine but the price reflects it as does the presentation. So if you freeze the grapes, press and get the sugar content up high enough, can you market it as late harvest? 
I had the same thoughts as you but the girl assured me they were from this year and they had a process that was exceptable to sell as late harvest.

Either way I got the Late harvest Vidal last year and it was fantastic and I tasted the late harvest Vignols sample they had this past week and it was also excellent.


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## grapeman (Oct 9, 2010)

People are always pushing the envelope trying to get around naming rules and conventions. I really don't care what something is called, it's how it tastes that is important to me. If you can get it cheap enough, let them take the work out of it for you. I don't do ice wine yet because I would loose too much crop and yield. I had left about 1000 pounds of Frontenac to pick until I freed up some primary space. I went out today and picked- only 350 pounds. Even though it was netted, a flock of 20 or so turkeys was in them when I got out there. They stuck their necks up in between the closed nets at the bottom and ate away!


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## Wade E (Oct 9, 2010)

You should have made some Ice wine last year Rich when I went up there and you had a bunch still hanging. I know I know, you just have so many hours in a day and so much wine and room.


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## Julie (Oct 9, 2010)

Runningwolf said:


> ....... My plan is to get back up there in two weeks before julie buys them out. .......



Oh no you don't, if I find out you bought the last I know where you live! I'll give you a call sometime this week, we are either headed up there this coming Saturday or next Saturday. I am so running out of carboys


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## Runningwolf (Oct 9, 2010)

Steve, do you have the "Home Winemaking step by step" book by Iverson? I have a feeling you do. Anyways mine is the forth edition and on pages 102-103 it talks about "false ice wine" and late harvest grapes and how you can freeze the juice to get the effect your looking for. I know you're a book worm and probably have it. Rod suggested it to me and the book is great. I would suggest this book for everyone.


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## rodo (Oct 9, 2010)

Glad to here you got the book and are enjoying it.


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## Wade E (Oct 9, 2010)

1.214 Dan!!!!!!!!!!!! Dang, that is up there. Was the hydro even in the must?


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## djrockinsteve (Oct 10, 2010)

Runningwolf said:


> Steve, do you have the "Home Winemaking step by step" book by Iverson?



I would have bet money that I did but I don't. Guess it's another trip to the library this week.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 10, 2010)

rodo said:


> Glad to here you got the book and are enjoying it.



I did et it on Amazon as you suggested. I love the book. I asked my wife if there wasn't a new book she wanted and she said it just so happens there is. So I snuck mine in also.



Wade E said:


> 1.214 Dan!!!!!!!!!!!! Dang, that is up there. Was the hydro even in the must?



Wade, LOL I know what you thinking, that this guy is off his rocker as the hydro's don't read that high. In a graduated cylinder I put equal amounts of water and juice and got a reading of 1.07 and the doubled it. This is what the owner at Presque Isle told me do in these instances. The amounts and the readings are correct and I dumped it out after the first reading and did it a second time. Same thing 1.07. Do you agree with my calculation or did I do something wrong?



djrockinsteve said:


> I would have bet money that I did but I don't. Guess it's another trip to the library this week.



Steve, best bet is buy it on Amazon. You will be turning page corners and highlighting in it. Doug turned me on to it and it was also highly recommended by Luc.


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## Wade E (Oct 10, 2010)

Dan, Ive never actually heard of that method with taking an sg so its not possible! Just kidding! I will test that method out though over my next few batches with controlled sg's just to thoroughly investigate it.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks Wade, With water being zero, your cutting the sg in half (with equal amounts) so it made sense to me. I wonder if Luc has ever done this? *LUC...*


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## Wade E (Oct 10, 2010)

I have heard of doing this with acid readings but never sg.


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## djrockinsteve (Oct 10, 2010)

That should be correct as your hydrometer measures sugar in liquid. Dan you could test it further by taking the half mixture and add equal amounts of water. This would give you 2 readings you can view.


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## jet (Oct 10, 2010)

Runningwolf said:


> Steve, do you have the "Home Winemaking step by step" book by Iverson? I have a feeling you do. Anyways mine is the forth edition and on pages 102-103 it talks about "false ice wine" and late harvest grapes and how you can freeze the juice to get the effect your looking for. I know you're a book worm and probably have it. Rod suggested it to me and the book is great. I would suggest this book for everyone.



That's a great book, and I'm trying the false ice wine now.


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## djrockinsteve (Oct 10, 2010)

Dan, I just ordered it along with another wine book and how to make cheese. Somehow I think it would have cost less if I wasn't trying for the "Free Shipping" promo. You know, spend more and you can save money.

I'm going broke saving all this money. Books should be here later this week.


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## grapeman (Oct 10, 2010)

Runningwolf said:


> I did et it on Amazon as you suggested. I love the book. I asked my wife if there wasn't a new book she wanted and she said it just so happens there is. So I snuck mine in also.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Dan, if I was to double the readinging of 1.070, I would come up with 1.140, not 1.214. That will give you a believable reading- more along the lines of a late harvest.


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## Wade E (Oct 10, 2010)

Yeah, he must have tripled it! That Dan doesnt know his 3's!


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## Runningwolf (Oct 10, 2010)

grapeman said:


> Dan, if I was to double the readinging of 1.070, I would come up with 1.140, not 1.214. That will give you a believable reading- more along the lines of a late harvest.



After two days of fermenting I just took another reading and it was 1.16

Last year when I got this they told me the brix was 44


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## Runningwolf (Oct 11, 2010)

ok ok ok enough, I never was any good at figuring out formulas. I called Walkers today and they said the brix was only 38 this year meaning a tarting sg of about 1.169. I asked a wine maker today and they said to do what I did with the 50/50 mix look at the brix reading and double the brix next time. Maybe when Julie buys hers she'll stop by on the way home and we can play with her juice. Anyways no more guessing in the future. I bought a 30-60 brix hydrometer today! Now i need to make something special to keep it in. Its a lot longer and looks twice as fragile as a normal one. NO I'M NOT BUYING A SPARE!!!!


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## Wade E (Oct 11, 2010)

And how much was that? Wouldnt a simple calculator have been cheaper?


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## djrockinsteve (Oct 11, 2010)

Has anyone evr seen a hydrometer with just the lower numbers which would allow for a more accurate reading? Maybe one that starts at 1.020 down to .990 I'd like to get one.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 11, 2010)

Wade E said:


> And how much was that? Wouldnt a simple calculator have been cheaper?



Simple Calculator? I couldn't even work a simple reading/calculation! It was very reasonable at $15.00 at Presque Isle. Someone special ordered one and so they got a few extra's just in case.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 11, 2010)

djrockinsteve said:


> Has anyone evr seen a hydrometer with just the lower numbers which would allow for a more accurate reading? Maybe one that starts at 1.020 down to .990 I'd like to get one.



Steve here you go. http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Specific-Gravity-Hydrometers I was looking around to see if I paid a fair price and I did get a good deal. This place must have 100 different hydometers. Pick if you want it to check sg, brix or alcohol. Multiple ranges.

I think I'm going to Lowes tomorrow to get some 3/4 or 1" pvc and end caps to make a case for mine before its too late.


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