# Bitcoins, anyone?



## jswordy (Nov 19, 2013)

I work with a 30-year-old programmer who yesterday made his second million from bitcoins he "mined" using his laptop computer back in 2009 and 2010 when they were worth from $1.25 to $14 each. :< Yesterday, they hit $900 each before falling back today. What the hell am I talking about? See http://www.bitcoin.org.

Anybody here gambling with these? He swears they are going to $10,000 and is urging me to buy at least one or two.

I'm like, man, all he had to do was leave his computer on running the numbers and he found all these coins for free. Now he's worth $2 million. I still can't figure out why he bothers to come in to work. Says it gives him something to do. :<


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## jamesngalveston (Nov 19, 2013)

2 million is not enough to retire own.
ever you put every dime of it up somewhere, fund,stock..etc
you could not live off the interest in todays world.

you need at least 6 without ss are anything else...


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## BernardSmith (Nov 19, 2013)

Good luck to that fellow and I hope he makes a killing but... his collection of bitcoins may turn out to have the same value as those tulips had in Holland in 1637 (was it?). Their value is only as much as folk are willing to pay for them and not because of any inherent value they may have. Today they may be worth $900 a piece and tomorrow they may be worth 9 cents. Their value - I think - comes from their use as currency that still flies beneath and above the radar for money laundering and the purchase and sale of goods that are illegal in different countries and jurisdictions


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## jswordy (Nov 19, 2013)

Where I live, James, you can retire extremely comfortably on the dividends from $2 million in stock (about $64,000 a year in high yield stock dividends). You'd live very well. It's a low cost of living area.

Bernard, I see you are a bear on these. They are in an interesting place, where all the experts are either very bullish and predicting $10,000 each in a year or very bearish and predicting a bubble that will collapse.

Me, I just wish I had bought some back when they were $75 and the dude was telling me to buy. That was two months ago. 

The fellow has already made a million bucks, twice, on them. He started mining them back in 2010. Not a bad return in 3 years.


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## deboard (Nov 19, 2013)

Starting that far back, he had a good chance of creating bitcoins, but the problem is that with every bitcoin produced by the algorithm, the next one becomes harder to produce, so these days you have to be part of a large consortium of people all pooling their computing resources to create some, so you're just not likely to get rich doing it now. 

It's an interesting concept though, I wish I had got on board early.

However, you can buy bitcoins or sell things for bitcoins if you like, that's probably a much better way of obtaining them right now.


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## vernsgal (Nov 19, 2013)

I swear I could happily retire with $ 2 million . And hindsight could make a lot of us rich Jim  Remember it's always a gamble.


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## olusteebus (Nov 20, 2013)

has he actually turned them into cash yet?


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## jswordy (Nov 22, 2013)

olusteebus said:


> has he actually turned them into cash yet?



With his first million, it was harder back then to do so. With this one, he "can actually put my hands-on the money now," to quote him. There are exchanges all over now for them.


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## Bartman (Nov 22, 2013)

If I were him, I would diversify my holdings ASAP. Just like with any stock that has run up in a short time, getting out at the right time is as important as getting in at the right time.

That said, timing the market for maximum gain is virtually impossible (unless you get lucky, like winning the lottery), but locking in a $1 M gain by converting it into tangible currency and being satisfied with that is the best that you can hope for, on his behalf.


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## Snafflebit (Nov 22, 2013)

Well, dang. I did some mining back in 2011. Maybe I made one coin at the time and got busy with life and stopped. There was a hacking incident at one of the bitcoin exchanges and the market dropped on them. I doubt I could even find that bitcoin if I tried. But I should try!


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## Gantel (Jan 28, 2018)

The price of bitcoin will grow at least another 2-3 years. This is said at every corner. I also want to buy bitcoins. Please tell me which exchanger I need to use. Because there are a lot of exchangers and my eyes are scared. I found an exchanger cex.io (https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/exchanges/review-cex-io-bitcoin-exchange/). I think he's good. Or maybe I need another one?


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 28, 2018)

@jswordy : is your friend still holding that bitcoin? If he is - holy cow! I've been reading a lot of people expect a pullback as far as maybe 5-6,000, then headed back up to 15-20k.


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## ibglowin (Jan 28, 2018)

They were probably all hacked/stolen by the DPRK.



Boatboy24 said:


> @jswordy : is your friend still holding that bitcoin? If he is - holy cow! I've been reading a lot of people expect a pullback as far as maybe 5-6,000, then headed back up to 15-20k.


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## dcbrown73 (Jan 28, 2018)

Bitcoin doesn't have any intrinsic value. That by definition should tell you it's not an investment. It's 100% speculative which means you're gambling.

Since it's gambling, most will lose at the game. So ask yourself. Are you the patsy, or is it the all other people that are playing the game?

If you aren't acutely aware of all the rules and strategies to the specific game. You should definitely pass on that game as you are at a distinct disadvantage and will end up being the patsy.

If you react emotionally towards money loss. The only investment should be an index fund. Invest and forgot it exists. The end result is, it will grow in the long run no matter what the market does in the short term.


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## BernardSmith (Jan 28, 2018)

when ordinary people want to buy into anything your KNOW that the in groups are already selling... Another tulip bubble? We are just out of a housing bubble... sigh.


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## jswordy (Jan 29, 2018)

Getting back around to this and I will try to answer some of the questions.

Yes, Bitcoin does not have any intrinsic value, so pull a dollar bill out of your pocket. That doesn't have any intrinsic value, either. It is all about the value people place in it relative to other currencies. Right now, that's 1:11,065 in U.S. dollars for Bitcoin.

I agree on the emotions. Psychological studies have shown that the high from gains is not as strong in our minds as the pain from losses, so it is best to either be dispassionate or invest in safer stuff, or at least remember the evidence about reactions to gains vs. losses. I have about 10% of my portfolio in marijuana stocks, and I have to have a strong stomach in that sector.

My Bitcoin mining friend started mining 24/7/365 when they were about 25 cents each. He has already hedged out about $5 million by selling highs and buying dips, so he has wound up with about the same 1,000 coins he had before and $5 million in dollars. He can afford to let his coins ride the market, since essentially he still has nothing in them except the $150 it cost him a few years back for the mining hardware and software. As I write, he's worth a bit over $11 million in coins and he has the $5 million cash. Interesting guy, a former computer hacker actually, he still goes to work every day at his $80,000 a year job, for fun. He is in it now for the long gain, says he'll keep his coins even if they fall to a penny each because long-term it will all pan out. WTH, he's only 36. He has the time to gamble.

Coinbase.com is the site he recommended to me. Compared to my stock sites, it is clunky but it supposed to be the best Bitcoin site. I sure wish I had bought at $600 when Richard was urging me to do so. LOL.

My cousin just retired 3 months ago at age 58 on his Bitcoin profits, after cashing out. Sold his place, moved to a 3,500 square foot home directly on a golf course in Florida.

Yes, Bitcoin has been predicted to pull back into the $5,000-$7,000 range. Who knows how long that will last, since wild swings can happen just in a minute's time.

Tech savvy traders in stocks and Bitcoin may want to look at https://robinhood.com/ - a 5-year-old company that offers free trades in both. A guy I know has been using it about a year, likes it. I am still with my online brokers. I have a Coinbase account but have never bought any coins. So far.


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## ibglowin (Jan 29, 2018)

Still trying to wrap my head around why anyone would invest real $$$ in something that could be stolen right out from under you never to be seen again.......

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/29/tec...change-hack-japan/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

Then there is the staggering amount of electricity being used around the world to mine/keep track of all this.......

Who knew that Otis T. Campbell would one day overcome his drinking habit and become such an astute (and progressive) investor especially on his salary as a glue dipper at the furniture factory!


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## jswordy (Jan 29, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> Still trying to wrap my head around why anyone would invest real $$$ in something that could be stolen right out from under you never to be seen again.......
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/29/tec...change-hack-japan/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom
> 
> ...



It's not what you make, it's what you keep.  The real action is in Ethereum right now, anyway. I don't own any of that, either.


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## jswordy (Jan 29, 2018)

BTW, this pretty much sums it up for me. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/blame-bitcoins-crash-on-these-sharp-new-players-2018-01-29


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## ibglowin (Jan 29, 2018)

So your ROI is a little more trickier I suppose. LOL



jswordy said:


> It's not what you make, it's what you keep.  The real action is in Ethereum right now, anyway. I don't own any of that, either.


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## Ajmassa (Jan 30, 2018)

High risk high reward right? I viewed crypto as an opportunity. A very rare opportunity. 
I do I think most people do some research and know the risks going into it. And uninformed wreckless new investors will quickly learn the hard way. 
The real fun didn’t start for me until I transferred funds from coinbase to an exchange called Binance. By far the most popular Alt exchange and trades about 100 Alt coins- compared to coinbase‘s now 4. (Coinbase still the only legit option to transfer $usd into bitcoin)
The Alt coin market is the damn Wild West. I was able to turn 400% profit in about 3 weeks in 2 coins I researched and believed in. Ripple and Tron. I skimmed off my initial investment plus a little extra before jumping off. And now I’m playing with all house money fully aware that All gains are unrealized until cashed out. 
I agree with Dcbrown to choose coins you believe in and forget they exist. Too much stress. But whether Bitcoin or other, crypto is not going anywhere. I figured I’d take a shot at getting on the right side of history. At this point I’ve got nothing to lose and everything to gain.


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## JohnT (Jan 30, 2018)

I have no idea just why bitcoins are valuable.

The way I see it, bitcoins are a form of digital currency that is not backed by any government, is not considered legal tender, and has an extremely limited acceptance base (those willing to accept them as currency).

I am by no means an economist. I just do not understand why anyone would invest in them. I would not be shocked if there was a HUGE correction in their price.


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## dcbrown73 (Feb 3, 2018)

Many people try to use the dollar vs bitcoin not being backed by anything, but that is a flawed comparison. The dollar is backed by the US government and it's ability to pay its debts. Which is why US treasury bills / bonds are considered risk free investments. Bitcoin is backed by absolutely nothing. Zip, Ziltch, Zero.

Having a dollar in your hand is not a gamble as only inflation really moves the value of a dollar. Having a bitcoin without question is a gamble because it's perceived value is 100% moved by speculation alone.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 3, 2018)

I did pretty well on this. Dumped a lot of extra money into it while on a deployment. Alternate coins though, very rarely bitcoin. Ended up buying an airplane. I have a pilots license, not a jet, but a single engine airplane. Upgraded the avionics and putting a brand new engine in it with the profits. 

right now I'm sitting on a coin that is business based/focused and has some larger commercial customers. Bought in at .15 a coin and bought more than 5k of them. I've ridden it up to $3 and down and up again.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 3, 2018)

Coin?


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