# Received my Chilean Juice today



## Runningwolf (Apr 27, 2013)

Received my ten different Chilean juice pails today. Pictured below are my yeast starters for each juice. A different yeast strain was used for each variety of grape juice.. Tomorrow I will make some oak additions.


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## novalou (Apr 27, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> Received my ten different Chilean juice pails today. Pictured below are my yeast starters for each juice. A different yeast strain was used for each variety of grape juice.. Tomorrow I will make some oak additions.



Ok, now for the details... Which yeast did you choose for which juice?

Nice set up, btw!


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## Runningwolf (Apr 27, 2013)

L226 for Barbera, Cab Franc & Sangiovese
D21 Malbec, Merlot & Petite Syrah
D80 Cab Sauv & Syrah
D254 Carmenere
RC 212 for Pinot Noir

Goferm was used in all starters. I also added 10g of tanin.


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## Runningwolf (Apr 28, 2013)

As a follow up to late last night, you can see my fermentation has begun this morning even at a cool temperature of 68°. The ideal temperature should be in the upper 70's. Additionally I've added 30gr of toasted and 30gr of premium oak to each batch. Last night before adding my yeast starter I did add 4 drops of Zymo clear (enzyme) and 10gr of FT Rouge (tannin) to each pail. I planned on adding raisins but they just won't fit in these pails (sorry Joe but they would be "outside" of the pail).


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## Wade E (Apr 28, 2013)

I see your really upping the reds in your inventory there Dan. Taste buds change or are these really just for guests and for your knowledge of making them? I know like you I started off only liking fruit and white semi sweet wines and then grew into big reds.


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## Runningwolf (Apr 28, 2013)

Wade the taste buds are changing as I knew they would several years ago when I made just a few reds for a later date in time and guests. The other issue is with such a large inventory I need to burn through my whites and fruits in the next 18 months or so while they are still in prime. Reds there shelf life is much longer but whites and fruits you're really looking at 18-48 months shelf life at the max. I would relly prefer to see all whites/fruits gone by the 28 month mark.

Why are there ads attached to the bottom of my photo's? I know they have shown up in other places but attached to our photo's shows an affiliation, which there is not any.


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## ShawnDTurner (Apr 28, 2013)

What type of number did you get on these buckets(TA, PH, brix)?


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## ShawnDTurner (Apr 28, 2013)

Specifically the Pinot Noir


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## Runningwolf (Apr 28, 2013)

Juice ta ph brix S02

Cab Sauv 4.5 3.45 211 4ppm

Merlot 4.2 3.34 20.5 

Malbec 4.3 3.41 22

Chardonnay 4.2 3.3 20.5

Pinot Noir 4.2 3.4 22

Zinfandel 3.45 3.44 20

numbers ran together when pasting but I think you can pick them apart. I only measured one pail for S02


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## ShawnDTurner (Apr 28, 2013)

What type of an adjust are you making on the Pinot Noir? Specifically the TA at 4.2, the P.H is spot on especially if you are taking it through MALO. Sugar is in a good range between 22-24. What method did you use test TA? PH meter and Acid or?


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## Runningwolf (Apr 28, 2013)

REALLY? You asked me for my numbers and I gave them to you because I thought maybe you have no way of testing. Now you want to know how I test and with what? If you want I can tell you where the moon was at also at the time of testing. Incidently TA and acid are the same thing.


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## ShawnDTurner (Apr 28, 2013)

LOL! I was going to ask you what part of Chile did you get them from. My guy that I ordered from in Columbus, called me and told that the grapes would be late, the numbers are not quite right. So they are going to let the hang awhile longer. So are you going to adjust your TA? If so to what range? Cheers


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## novalou (Apr 28, 2013)

ShawnDTurner said:


> What type of an adjust are you making on the Pinot Noir? Specifically the TA at 4.2, the P.H is spot on especially if you are taking it through MALO. Sugar is in a good range between 22-24. What method did you use test TA? PH meter and Acid or?



All of my Chilean juices came in light in acid. My preference for acid is 5.0 for reds and 0.7 for whites. I'll make final adjustments after its cleared by taste.

I test for acid by titration kit. $20 for the kit gives you several tests.


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## novalou (Apr 28, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> L226 for Barbera, Cab Franc & Sangiovese
> D21 Malbec, Merlot & Petite Syrah
> D80 Cab Sauv & Syrah
> D254 Carmenere
> ...



Thanks RW. I'll have to compare notes, maybe a different yeast next time around!


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## Runningwolf (Apr 28, 2013)

I added 33gr of Tataric acid per pale. I used a self zeroing acid taesting kit which is standard in a winery for testing. http://www.piwine.com/catalog.html?...e=flypage.tpl&product_id=16723&category_id=24


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## Wade E (Apr 28, 2013)

Dan, I dont see any ads attached to your pics!


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## Runningwolf (Apr 29, 2013)

Wade E said:


> Dan, I dont see any ads attached to your pics!


 You're right they're gone now. I had never seen that happen before.


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## joeswine (Apr 29, 2013)

*rasins by any other name*

wolf man ,the raisins should be in the secondary anyway at least that's the way to get their valued effect,so there's plenty of space to ferment in the normal flow of thinks,that's a lot of wine in the finish,reminds me of my self in my youth,adding the raisins in the secondary will improve the character of the wine greatly in the long run,2 years from finish or so the wine will really take on a style of it's own, if it follows the basic profile it will be bold up front with lots of body and texture a wine to remember,truly.


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## Runningwolf (Apr 29, 2013)

joeswine said:


> wolf man ,the raisins should be in the secondary anyway at least that's the way to get their valued effect,so there's plenty of space to ferment in the normal flow of thinks,that's a lot of wine in the finish,reminds me of my self in my youth,adding the raisins in the secondary will improve the character of the wine greatly in the long run,2 years from finish or so the wine will really take on a style of it's own, if it follows the basic profile it will be bold up front with lots of body and texture a wine to remember,truly.


 Mr Bacchus (Joe), I shall take your lead. In a day or two I'll be adding super ferment and right after that my mlf culture while things are hot. Stay tuned.


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## ShawnDTurner (Apr 29, 2013)

Which MLF culure are you using Dan?


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## s0615353 (May 2, 2013)

Joe/Runningwolf, are there any problems using raisins while the wine is undergoing MLF? Aren't raisins covered in sulfite as a preservative, which could cause some issues for the bacteria? Do you soak them in water first, or maybe use an organic brand that is low in sulfite?


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## JohnT (May 2, 2013)

Dan, 

Why would you want to add raisons to your fresh grape juice? The color looks rather dark and I would think rather full bodied.

johnT.


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## Runningwolf (May 2, 2013)

John, I am taking Joe's lead on the rasins. Tonight the juice is at about 12 brix and I added 1 pound of sugar to up the abv a bit and also to increase the stability of the finished product. I have to go to a PSU graduation on Saturday for my daughter so I will probably rack everything over to five gallon carboys on Sunday. Right now with the addition of the Oak dust and sugar there is only about 1/2 inch space left in the pail. I gave this a lot of fore thought on the placement of the pails, so I'll be able to easily siphon them into carboys.


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## JohnT (May 3, 2013)

OK, just wondering. 

The chillean wine that I have made in the past (although from fresh whole grapes) has yeilded killer body. I think that I sent you my 2010 chillean. This wine has the typical body that I get from chillean grapes. 

I was just curious if the juice pails did the same. By the looks of your pictures, it does seem like there is a nice dark color, but pictures can be deceiving.


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## Runningwolf (May 3, 2013)

JohnT said:


> OK, just wondering.
> 
> The chillean wine that I have made in the past (although from fresh whole grapes) has yeilded killer body[I met this red head once...opps another story]. I think that I sent you my 2010 chillean.[I never received wine from you john] This wine has the typical body that I get from chillean grapes.
> 
> I was just curious if the juice pails did the same. By the looks of your pictures, it does seem like there is a nice dark color, but pictures can be deceiving.


I think the juice really does lack in body with no skins. We are just trying to make a good wine, GREAT!


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## Runningwolf (May 5, 2013)

One week after start of fermentation i racked my ten pails into five gallon carboys. I added one pound of raisins, mlf culture and micro esentials to each carboy including the surplus. After filling each 5g carboy I had enough wine left from each pail (blended together) to fill (2) 7 gallon carboys, adding the same ingrediants to those. My sg was about 1.03 or 8 brix. All the carboys are rocking. I could have waited a bit longer but with the start of a new work week I wanted to get this done rather than being in a position of not being able to get it when I exactly want to.


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## Runningwolf (May 6, 2013)

Yesterday I racked my Chilean to carboys. Two days earlier I added another pound of sugar to each batch. I racked all ten varieties over to five gallon carboys that had a pound of raisins in each one. The remainder of the juice I put in two 7 gallon carboys to use for topping up and making my port with. When I came home tonight the carboys were still rocking and rolling with juice in 7 airlocks and as you can see in the picture one actually spurted out creating a small stream. I left head space in each carboy for expansion and fermentation, evidently not enough!


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## robie (May 6, 2013)

s0615353 said:


> Joe/Runningwolf, are there any problems using raisins while the wine is undergoing MLF? Aren't raisins covered in sulfite as a preservative, which could cause some issues for the bacteria? Do you soak them in water first, or maybe use an organic brand that is low in sulfite?





Sorry no one got back to you.


The raisins are being added during secondary alcohol fermentation. It seems unusual only because MLF is being started early.

If you buy off-the-shelf raisins from the grocery store, they will have sulfites on their surface, which one should wash off. Organic raisins may not have any sulfites on them at all. I would prefer nice, big organic raisins, but they may be hard to find.


Adding the MLB before the alcoholic fermentation is complete, is not unusual, depending on the type of MLB and of course whether the wine is white or red. It is more popular to add it early for reds. 


Adding the MLB early is good if the wine might end up with a greater ABV than the MLB can handle. Even though the alcohol fermentation will complete long before the MLF, this will give the MLB time to acclimate to the higher ABV slowly as alcohol fermentation progresses.


Hope this answered your questions.


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## Runningwolf (May 6, 2013)

Sheesh, I remember reading that post and thought I responded. Robie, thanks for stepping up. In the past I always added raisins in the very beginning but this time I am taking Joe's lead on adding them on the back half of fermentation. Another reason I added MLB at this time is to take advantage of the higher temps created during the regular fermentation.


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## s0615353 (May 7, 2013)

It's fine, shortly after I made that post I stumbled on Luc's article on adding raisins to wine and it is all clear now. I also add MLB towards the end of fermentation when there are still plenty of nutrients and heat to keep the bugs happy. I will just make sure to rinse the sulfite and sorbate off the raisins before tossing them in if I add MLB.


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## joeswine (May 10, 2013)

*addition of rasins*

STAYING THE COURSE,,



1)primary fermentation as normal
2)rasins in the secondary(self fermentation)
3) powder oak in secondary(stir well) 

ONCE this is done it will do it's owe thing............


MY position on fresh juice in the past 5 to 7 years I have noticed a change in the viscosity of the finish product,not to the good side ,the wines have gone thin and very little aroma if any OF their own,I have stated this in the past and that's why I make changes as do all wine makers or they should to put there own finger print on the wine,nothing erotic but suttle changes,thats when I started experimenting with rasins ,the enjoyment of a great amarone started me figuring out the possibilities and reading about ITALIAN wines and there processes which we can not duplicate (they are the masters ) we are but students,and we do the best we can with what we have available to us.

Knowing each of us are different in many ways, are taste are also different and so there four are styles,, wine making over time has made me 
has made me a accomplished wine maker, trial and a lot of error has led the way,WOLFMAN your on the right road the work area looks great,the process is simple let the rasins do the work for YOU the testament is in the finish product.....with respectfully .jp


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## Runningwolf (May 10, 2013)

Thanks Joe. What I did different; I did add the powder oak during primary and mlf plus nutrient during secondary to take advantage of the fermentation heat. I will keep this thread going and report back as I go along.


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## hocke230 (May 10, 2013)

How long does MLF run for? I'll be doing this to my bucket soon.


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## Runningwolf (May 10, 2013)

It can run for anywhere from several weeks to several months. The only way to know for sure is to test it.


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## geek (May 28, 2013)

Dan, how's your Chilean wine going? Just curiosity....


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## Runningwolf (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry Geek I did not see this post. Last night I decided to check to see if my wine had completed the MLF. I know several folks doubted if it could be completed with raisins and oak in it and at cooler temperatures. Well my temps were 65* (not ideal) and I had oak and raisins in it. I posted 4 pictures showing the steps of doing the mlf. Pictures 1&2 should be reversed.


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## Runningwolf (Jun 16, 2013)

Today I racked and tasted all 12 carboys of Chilean I've got going. In the last post I said the mlf was finished but what I meant was nearly finished as it is still showing a bit of malic acid. I have to say this is going to be the best Chilean I've made to date. Putting the oak dust in during fermentation, taking Joe's lead to add raisins in the last part of fermentation for about 30 days and starting the MLF at the same time seams to be a real winner. I will taste again in 30 days or so to see if I want to add an oak stick or not. With 10 different big red's I will be doing a lot of blending. The extra gallon I had of each one that I blended all together is going to make an outstanding port!


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## Pumpkinman (Jun 17, 2013)

Dan, you should really check out the grape skin pacjs that M&M sells, these are just shy of 9 lbs. These are the "All Grape Packs", at $19.99, they are obviously more expensive than raisins, but in my opinion, they probably would be better than adding raisins when making wine from juice buckets.
I cannot argue using raisins when making kit wine, I've tasted Joes Amarone, you could have knocked me over with a feather when he told me it was a kit wine!


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## geek (Jun 17, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> Today I racked and tasted all 12 carboys of Chilean I've got going. In the last post I said the mlf was finished but what I meant was nearly finished as it is still showing a bit of malic acid. I have to say this is going to be the best Chilean I've made to date. Putting the oak dust in during fermentation, taking Joe's lead to add raisins in the last part of fermentation for about 30 days and starting the MLF at the same time seams to be a real winner. I will taste again in 30 days or so to see if I want to add an oak stick or not. With 10 different big red's I will be doing a lot of blending. The extra gallon I had of each one that I blended all together is going to make an outstanding port!



Dan, did you add the raisins at the end of alcoholic fermentation when you racked to carboy and then started mlf immediately?

..


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## joeswine (Jun 17, 2013)

*wolfman*

Sounds like a plan wolfman,stay the course, it will work out in the end,THIG,,by the ,end of the week I hope to get all the sangiovese tastings out, ones on it's way to you...this was the short turnaround kit ...................


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## Runningwolf (Jun 17, 2013)

geek said:


> Dan, did you add the raisins at the end of alcoholic fermentation when you racked to carboy and then started mlf immediately?
> 
> ..



I added the raisins when I racked off the initial fermentation at about 1.025. I added the raisins and mlf at the same time and left them in there for about 30 days.


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## joeswine (Jun 18, 2013)

*wolfman*

what do you think so far about the process?


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## Runningwolf (Jun 18, 2013)

Joe, to date I am very happy with the process. Putting the raisins in during the second half of the fermentation instead of the first was a pain. Putting them in the primary, I have them in a bag and throw them out as one unit in the end (real simple). Adding them as you said, I had to shake them out of the carboy into a bucket and that was about 4 times as hard as the first way. So, what is 4 times harder than "simple", not much at all, I'll continue to do it going forward. 

I'm telling you, we really had it together for our customers at Presque Isle this year for Chilean juice. We measured tested all varieties immediately and made determinations of what it needed. We then had a ready made bundled package ready with the beat yeast for each particular wine, measured amounts of tannin, nutrients etc and then additional info for those who asked about oak and mlf. For less than $6.00 customers had everything measured out, in hand and complete instructions. This was a real hit and is helping people take there wine from good to great. Very labor intensive on our part but worth every bit of it.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 18, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> I'm telling you, we really had it together for our customers at Presque Isle this year for Chilean juice. We measured tested all varieties immediately and made determinations of what it needed. We then had a ready made bundled package ready with the beat yeast for each particular wine, measured amounts of tannin, nutrients etc and then additional info for those who asked about oak and mlf. For less than $6.00 customers had everything measured out, in hand and complete instructions. This was a real hit and is helping people take there wine from good to great. Very labor intensive on our part but worth every bit of it.



That is an outstanding idea, and I'll bet it is a big win-win for both you and your customers. I imagine you will have a lot of repeat customers next year and they will likely buy more than this year AND bring their friends.


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