# wine from Welches?



## waterloowino (Feb 15, 2014)

As a newbie, I wanted to practice making wine with store bought juices before I invest the time and money of using grapes. \

Does anyone have experience and/or recipes for making wine with Welches concord or white grapes and maybe using some cranberry juice.

thanks


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## dralarms (Feb 15, 2014)

I make wine using both the concord and the white. Both come out very good. Also the white grape peach and white grape raspberry are good too.

My suggestion is make your mix per instructions, then add 2 cans undiluted, then add your sugar to desired level, also since there is no fruit then there is no need to wait to pitch the yeast.


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## Duster (Feb 15, 2014)

I would recommend one of two things. Either get yourself a 6 gallon equipment kit and a 23L wine kit. Follow the instructions that come with the wine kit to a "T". You will be happy with your results.
Option 2 is buy yourself a 1 gallon equipment kit. This will be cheaper in the beginning. The kit should come with a recipe book with several juice recipes in it. Most 1 gallon equipment kits I have seen will also have enough basic additive ingredients for a couple gallons. The down side to this option is that you will outgrow making 1 gallon batches quickly.


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## dralarms (Feb 15, 2014)

Duster,

I assumed he had the equipment. Guess I shouldn't have.


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## waterloowino (Feb 15, 2014)

Thanks to both of you. I do have equipment and have just completed my third kit. I wanted to experiment with out the training wheel, so when I make wine with grapes, I will hopefully be able to do it with positive results.


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## Winenoob66 (Feb 15, 2014)

Hi waterloowino, there is some good recipes on here for Welch's concentrates, and there also a good way to break out of the training wheels, another good way to break out of the training wheels is Dragon's Blood. The best thing about the concentrates and dragon's blood is they are early drinkers , so that will allow your kits a chance to age a little. the recipes for both aren't hard to find in the recipe section of the forums.


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## chris400 (Feb 15, 2014)

Yes waterloowino lots of good info on here and good people....im doing a concentrate juice mix now and its soing great rhanks to the help of this site and espacilly dralarms

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## Duster (Feb 15, 2014)

Waterloowino
My apologies, when you said nubie i figured you meant complete nubie. If you have the basics down now then yes check out our recipe page on here. 



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## jojabri (Feb 15, 2014)

I've made a few from Welch's. It may not be as "classy" as some, but there's never a shortage of juice andit's really inexpensive. As still a newb myself I'm just not comfortable with putting an expensive kit at risk of mucking up when I can try a few for a pittance in the Wal-Mart freezer.

That being said I've done the Concord, the Niagara, and mixes of the two with amazing results by using the recipes on these forums. I also currently have batches going from Welch's white grape peach and Old orchard Blueberry Pomegranate. 

I totally agree with Winenoob666 about the Dragon Blood. It's an affordable ingredient recipe with a simple method that produces an amazing early drinker. Everyone who has had any I've made RAVES about it. I can barely keep this stuff stocked!


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## Runningwolf (Feb 15, 2014)

First off welcome to the forum and winemaking. I have not made wine from Welches but plenty of folks here have. I am thinking probably Johnt would be best at steering you in the right direction.


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## waterloowino (Feb 16, 2014)

Thanks again to everyone. After I started the post, I have gone to the recipe section and found recipes for both the concord and the Niagara. Obviously, one can not be a member of the esteemed group without making Dragon's Blood, so as soon as I get back from vacation, I will be making some. I have DangerDave's recipe. 

Unfortunately, there are more good ideas on this platform than I can drink. But I may try.


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## jojabri (Feb 16, 2014)

waterloowino said:


> Obviously, one can not be a member of the esteemed group without making Dragon's Blood, so as soon as I get back from vacation, I will be making some.



Pretty sure making DB isn't a requirement, BUT you WON'T regret it!



waterloowino said:


> Unfortunately, there are more good ideas on this platform than I can drink. But I may try.



Rubbish! Have a little faith in yourself! YOU CAN DO IT! We believe in you! Plus homemade wine makes great gifts for friends and family.

For some weird reason people are always impressed when you say "I make wine", especially if it's tasty! If only people knew how simple it really was.... but I'm not spilling the beans.


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## Noontime (Feb 17, 2014)

We make a frozed fruit concentrate wine every year. We've found the trick is to let it age at least a year; it really smooths out and integrates with more time in the bottle.


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## Duster (Feb 19, 2014)

Runningwolf said:


> First off welcome to the forum and winemaking. I have not made wine from Welches but plenty of folks here have. I am thinking probably Johnt would be best at steering you in the right direction.




Dan
I thought you were trying to stay out of the corner this year?


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## wineforfun (Feb 19, 2014)

I have made many gallons with Welchs. It is very versatile and there are numerous flavors. Use 4 cans concentrate per gallon and you will be happy with the flavor.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 19, 2014)

does straight welches wine taste like concord wine made from fresh grapes? Or like normal wine? I ask because I read somewhere to use welches wine for topping up other wines... But I wouldn't want to change the flavour profile too much. 


Carolyn


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## Elmer (Feb 19, 2014)

I gave welches my best shot.
4 cans per gallon of concord grape.

I sweetened with 1/4 cup sugar for 1 gallon, but it was still to tart and dry.
My wife liked the flavor but wanted sweeter.
another 1/4 cup and now she thinks it is too sweet.

I dont mind the sweetness, but I can not get past the concord flavor.

Tastes like manischewitz wine to me.

I tossed in some 1/4 of OZ dark american oak chips and going to let it sit for a month.
See if that opens it up at all!
but otherwise 
MEH!!!!


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## wineforfun (Feb 19, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> does straight welches wine taste like concord wine made from fresh grapes? Or like normal wine? I ask because I read somewhere to use welches wine for topping up other wines... But I wouldn't want to change the flavour profile too much.
> 
> 
> Carolyn



The concord I have had at wineries around the Midwest tastes very similar to what I make from Welchs. I would have no problem using Welchs concord to top up a concord made from grapes. I think they are very similar, obviously not exact, but close enough to top up with.
I always have a stash of Welchs concord around as my wife loves it. I keep it fairly sweet as that is how she likes it. I have been playing around with some variations of it but my go to is the Super Sugar method of jswordy, here on the forum.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 19, 2014)

Thanks wineforfun... I have never made welch's straight and I would definitely not worry about using it to top off a real concord wine. I have made plenty of that since that's what I have growing here. You did answer my question though in that it tastes the same. My question (not very clear) was more about using it to top off other wines not concord. I'm not sure if it would give that concord flavour to a non concord wine? If so, at what rate? ie would 750ml not make a difference?


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## JohnT (Feb 19, 2014)

waterloowino said:


> As a newbie, I wanted to practice making wine with store bought juices before I invest the time and money of using grapes. \
> 
> Does anyone have experience and/or recipes for making wine with Welches concord or white grapes and maybe using some cranberry juice.
> 
> thanks


 

Julie, 

I demand a "get out of the corner, free" card for keeping my big, fat mouth shut on this thread!!!!!!


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## Noontime (Feb 19, 2014)

One 750ml bottle added to top off a 6 gallon batch is roughly 3.5%, so I don't think it will have a huge impact. I will top off a white wine with any other white wine, and red wine with any other red wine or Viognier.


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## wineforfun (Feb 19, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Thanks wineforfun... I have never made welch's straight and I would definitely not worry about using it to top off a real concord wine. I have made plenty of that since that's what I have growing here. You did answer my question though in that it tastes the same. My question (not very clear) was more about using it to top off other wines not concord. I'm not sure if it would give that concord flavour to a non concord wine? If so, at what rate? ie would 750ml not make a difference?



Sorry, I misread what you were asking. I have no idea how it would affect other types of wines. I would assume a. it depends on how much you use b. how different the wine you are topping up is, ie: cabernet, moscato, etc.


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## Julie (Feb 19, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Julie,
> 
> I demand a "get out of the corner, free" card for keeping my big, fat mouth shut on this thread!!!!!!



alright, you got it! You have been a good boy, lol, I just figured you missed this whole thread somehow


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 19, 2014)

I think JohnT, is plotting an answer, probably long and dead on topic.
I love concord wine made from welches, at least as a dragon blood....
goes great with breakfast.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 19, 2014)

I call BS! He's going to scalp that get out of the corner Ticket. John's served time in there with a few other's of us and he know's what a blast it is when Dragon Lady leaves for the evening.


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## Julie (Feb 19, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Thanks wineforfun... I have never made welch's straight and I would definitely not worry about using it to top off a real concord wine. I have made plenty of that since that's what I have growing here. You did answer my question though in that it tastes the same. My question (not very clear) was more about using it to top off other wines not concord. I'm not sure if it would give that concord flavour to a non concord wine? If so, at what rate? ie would 750ml not make a difference?



Hi Carolyn, 

I don't think I would use Concord for topping up. My reasoning is Concord has a history of being a foxy tasting wine, some people can taste it but others cannot. I just won't take the chance.

And a question, when making a concord straight are you using just the juice that is on the shelf in the grocery store or the concentrate that is in the freezer section?


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 20, 2014)

Julie thanks for the straight answer! Lol! Was asking about concentrate.. I have made many fresh concord wines and don't want to change another wine via topping off with concentrate - I know what fresh wine tastes like!


Carolyn


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## jethro (Feb 20, 2014)

No, I've never even tasted Dragon's Blood.

I did however, make Welch's grape juice wine last summer. I put two different batches in two carboys, using two different flavors of Welch's. I only added sugar and yeast. It was my first batch of wine since high school. So I am a newbie.

Not until I had already done this did I learn that Welch's grape juice is concord grape wine. Hell, I didn't even know at that time that a wine is named after the grape that provides the juice that makes that wine! No, I never tried manischewitz either!

I tasted the wine around Christmas 2013. It wasn't good. It tasted like must. So I am letting it sit another six months in the carboys. I'll taste in again next June.

BTW, can the Dragon's Blood be made dry ?


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## Noontime (Feb 21, 2014)

Our frozen concentrate wine recipe... let it sit a year and it makes a wonderful summer wine.

4 cans Welches Concord
4 cans Welches Berry Splash
3 cans Welches Niagara

Boil together:
10 black tea bags
1 cinnamon stick
a few whole cloves
5 lbs sugar

Combined in fermentation bucket with:
7 washed bananas (whole with ends cut off and sliced)
12oz bag of frozen blueberries
12oz bag of frozen raspberries
1/2 lbs minced raisins
water to 6 gallons

Yeast nutrient
pectic enzyme
2 tsp acid blend
KV-1116 yeast
SG 1.080

Stabilize and sweeten to taste.


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## Elmer (Mar 21, 2014)

Tried a bottle of my welches tonight.
I have to say it was not that bad and it was drinkable (sorry john).
I only added 1/2 cup sugar for 1 gallon and a ton of oak.
The first taste is Concord grape, but then it is followed by a dry smokeyness.

And at 13%. It is crossing my eyes a 1/2 bottle in, while standing in the kitchen watching NCAA 
I also chilled it a bit and that seemed to add to the drink ability 


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## JohnT (Mar 24, 2014)

Elmer said:


> Tried a bottle of my welches tonight.
> I have to say it was not that bad and it was drinkable (sorry john).
> I only added 1/2 cup sugar for 1 gallon and a ton of oak.
> The first taste is Concord grape, but then it is followed by a dry smokeyness.
> ...


 


Elmer, 

Congrats. As long as you enjoy it, that is all that matters.. 

At the risk of getting myself into even more trouble, can I point out that your review of your Welch's is that "It's not that bad". I think that this is a testimony to your winemaking skills. Well done!

But, if I may.. Instead of Welch's and "its not that bad", why not channel your efforts and skills into something that "Makes you get down on your knees and that the Almighty for the fantastic gift that is the grape"?

Come on Elmer, Turn to the dark side!


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## Elmer (Mar 24, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Elmer,
> 
> Congrats. As long as you enjoy it, that is all that matters..
> 
> ...




When I say it is "not that bad", I guess I am saying it is drinkable, but I would not serve to friends while puffing out my chest and demanding to be complimented for my greatness.

I drink anything, but appreciate good stuff.
When something is drinkable, it is drinkable, but we only drink it because there is nothing better around!

I have some really good wine aging in the basement, but I am months away from bottling.

So in the mean time I have made a few small 1 gallon experiments and I am drinking all my inferior wines to make room on my rack.
(my mosti mondal chianti 10l kit wine is almost undrinkable due its inferiority to my super tuscan )


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## JohnT (Mar 24, 2014)

OK, 

I understand and see your point. It is just that I am a "life is too short to drink bad wine" type of fellow.


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## Elmer (Mar 24, 2014)

JohnT said:


> OK,
> 
> I understand and see your point. It is just that I am a "life is too short to drink bad wine" type of fellow.



Completely understand John,
And I believe that is a great attitude to have.

However, I grew up not poor, but in a house with a tight budget, if not limited. I grew up eating what we had when we had it.

Now that I am older I can afford some stuff, but having recently lost my 2nd job, I had to tighten my belt yet again.

My wife likes her $10 bottles of wine and only likes a certain kind of beer (IE: she is picky, but dont tell her I said that).
She would rather not have a glass of wine than drink something she does not like, as many people would.

I will drink what I have when I have it.
I cherish the times I can have a woodfords Reserve, but knowing that I have 3 bottles of Jim Beam (gifts) will drink that when it is all that is there.

I love the Tuscan I made, as well as the Pinot, but I will drink Dragon Blood & SP, because I can make alot of it and it is cost effective for me.

Atleast until someone dies and leaves me some money. In which case 1st round is on me!


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## JohnT (Mar 24, 2014)

You might not believe me, But I actually like skeeter pee. I made a couple of batches and find that it is just the ticket on a meltingly hot summer day. I take a blender, half full of ice, cover it with skeeter pee, add a shot of sugar, and blitz it into what I consider tastes very much like a frozen margaretta.

There is just something about the taste of concord grapes that seriously repulses me. Given the choice, I think that I would opt for water instead. This is just me. Some folks like oysters, some do not. 

Let me ask you this.. When you stack up the cost of the Welch's, the sugar, the yeast, the nutrients, oak, and all other ingredients, what does it really cost you per bottle?


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## Elmer (Mar 24, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Let me ask you this.. When you stack up the cost of the Welch's, the sugar, the yeast, the nutrients, oak, and all other ingredients, what does it really cost you per bottle?



I only made 1.5 gallon of welches. This was because I had already had 5 tubes of concord concentrate and sugar and everything else sitting around the house.
But I get your point. Total cost was probably between $10 to $15, which I just should have bought a good bottle of something!


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## dralarms (Mar 24, 2014)

Well, according to Tom I must be an uneducated redneck. Lol. I like welches concord. If done right and let age just a bit it actually makes a nice drinkable wine. However if you get somethibg out of balance it can get pretty harsh.

A winery here (strikers premium winery) used to make something called "the Athenian", it was fantastic. Before he shut down (and then tried to kill his kids and killed himself) he gave me the recipe. I've had people that tried mine and swore it was his.


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## Elmer (Mar 24, 2014)

dralarms said:


> Well, according to Tom I must be an uneducated redneck. Lol. I like welches concord. If done right and let age just a bit it actually makes a nice drinkable wine. However if you get somethibg out of balance it can get pretty harsh.
> 
> A winery here (strikers premium winery) used to make something called "the Athenian", it was fantastic. Before he shut down (and then tried to kill his kids and killed himself) he gave me the recipe. I've had people that tried mine and swore it was his.



I personally would never call you a "uneducated redneck".
I find the term redundant!


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## JohnT (Mar 24, 2014)

dralarms said:


> Well, according to Tom I must be an uneducated redneck.


 
I hope you do not think that I called you this (you say according to Tom, so I am not quite sure). 

I know that there are folks that like Welch's. It is just that I am not one of them. I do not look down on those that do like it, but try to advise those that feel that Welch's is a last resort. If I have insulted you, that was not my intent.


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## dralarms (Mar 24, 2014)

Nah, we're all good.


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## Bibelljim (Mar 24, 2014)

When you guys use the concentrates, you are talking about the frozen ones in the freezer section, right?


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## wineforfun (Mar 24, 2014)

dralarms said:


> A winery here (strikers premium winery) used to make something called "the Athenian", it was fantastic. Before he shut down (and then tried to kill his kids and killed himself) he gave me the recipe. I've had people that tried mine and swore it was his.



Is this recipe something you would like to share?


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## dralarms (Mar 24, 2014)

Jim, yes the frozen concentrate. 

D.j. sure.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 24, 2014)

I'm with JohnT on not being a fan of Concord. Incidentally I guess it I guess it is the Concord taste more than just Welches that he dislikes. With that said I love Concord blended with something like Niagara (another one I don't like alone). 

Concord is a very sought after juice for home winemakers and wineries that don't have access to it.


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## ckvchestnut (Mar 24, 2014)

JohnT said:


> OK,
> 
> I understand and see your point. It is just that I am a "life is too short to drink bad wine" type of fellow.




Honestly... Life is too short to wait only for the best wine... Make it but make some other great stuff while you're waiting so you don't have to break the bank at the liquor store. It seems that all wines have their place for drinking. It's all in what stage of winemaking your at and how big your stash is. I'm also In the position of being able to appreciate the FINE stuff but able to drink anything decent. DB as a matter of fact does it it for me. Wasn't so sure but yup! It was a hit as was tropical daze. 

At 60 you want to have a good stash of well aged wine... At 45 you want to be building that stash and making stuff you can enjoy in the meantime. 

Cheers! With my DB! And of course we are all entitled to our opinions  if I was rich and could afford nothing but the best that's what I'd be drinking. Oh and some things are just a matter of taste. Concord: you either like it or don't. Same with licorice, or coffee or seafood. I make mine fresh from my grapes mixed with fredonia and while it's not Amerone it has its place as a decent sipping wine to me. It's not fair to call anything a bad wine it's just about taste. 

No bad bad intentions meant here....


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## dralarms (Mar 24, 2014)

17 cans frozen concentrate
45 cans water
Sugar to 1.095
Lavin 71b-1122 yeast
Ferment to dry.Let clear (most of the stuff will drop out)
Add potassium sorbate and kmeta
Backsweeten to taste (my wife wants it at 1.020)
Add fining agent (I use super kleer)Make sure it's degassed
Bottle and age 6 months.It's good at 6 months, better at 1 year, and if it makes it to 18 months it will surprised you.


Since I was asked.

No oak, no tannins. Have fun.


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## Elmer (Mar 25, 2014)

I should mention that I grew up drinking Manischewitz, both dry and sweet.
So I have had my fill of concord!

I have always believed that good wine is based solely on opinion.
And I still have 5 bottles of welshes, which will get drank!


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## JohnT (Mar 25, 2014)

ckvchestnut, 

I hear you and agree with most of what you say. 

I guess that the difference here is that I started winemaking while I was in my early 20's and have a decent stock pile.


on a separate note, Dan, 

That avatar is iconic!


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## ckvchestnut (Mar 25, 2014)

Yes that must be the clincher John... If you have that wonderful stash to drink, who'd want to waste too much time on certain types that you just don't really care for.


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