# blueberry and blackberry wine???



## Doober (Aug 21, 2008)

Hi, i am going to attempt to make blueberry and blackberry wine since they are in season. This will be my first time. i know the process of making wine from grapes. i know there are recipes out there for small batches, but i wanted to make the wine on my own. I have 15 lbs. of each fruit, how many gallons of wine and must will this produce? what ratio of water and sugar do i add? what size and when are the sulfite additions. what level of acidity, brix, ph, and is there anything else i should be testing for? can i crush the fruit with a grape crusher and press like grapes? What type of yeast, acid, and any other type of chemicals or ingredients should be added if needed? What in general do i need to do to make a good blueberry and blackberrywine? I searched around but really cant find that much information. All the information you can give will be truly appreciated. I froze the blueberries but i put the blackberries in the fridge so i need answers fast please.


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## NorthernWinos (Aug 21, 2008)

Freeze the blackberries too.

Take a deep breath and search out some recipes.

15# of fruit is good...a few more pounds would give you 5-6 gallon batches of each.

Freezing will release the juices, so no need for a crusher, etc.

Sugar added depends on the sweetness of your berries...so have your hydrometer hand [if you don't have one get one.]

As for the acidity, ph, etc...it will vary and you will have to test, or 'wing it' by using a proven recipe.

Others will chime in with recipes and suggestions.....


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## Wade E (Aug 21, 2008)

As for Blueberry wine you have enough for a 6 gallon batch and you will want to add approx 7 tsp. of acid blend and enough sugar to get an SG of 1.085 which will probably be around 10 lbs. You will also want 6 tsp of yeast nutrient and 3 tsp of yeast energizer as Blueberries are sometimes a bear to ferment. I would add 1/2 the nutrient and all the energizer at the beginning and the other part of nutrient around an SG of 1.035 just to feed the yeast and help it finish its job. When starting, add 1/4 tsp of k-meta or 4 campden tablets crushed very well into a fine powder, add berries in fermenting bag and then pour 1 gallon of boiling water over berries. Then add about 4 gallons of water and wait at least 12 hours before adding pectic enzyme and another 12 hours before adding the yeast making sure the temp is around 72*. As far as yeast goes I would go with Red Star Montrachet.

As for the Blackberry you will want about 4 lbs per gallon so you are looking at a 3 1/2 gallon batch as you stand. You will want to use Lalvin 71B-1122 as it will eat up some of the malic acid which Blackberries are very high in. You may not need to even add any acid to this batch at all. You will need about 2 lbs of sugar per gallon and follow the same schedule as with the Blueberry wine.


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## Doober (Aug 21, 2008)

i froze the blackberries an am going to take my time. thanks alot for the posts, they are very helpful. can i keep the skins in the juice instead of a straining bag? do u press the skins or just ring them out in a bag?should the blackberry be put through MLF? should a yeast starteer be made before pitching it? should the sulfite additions be 50 ppm x 3? anymore recipes and helpful advice would be greatly appreciated, im still learning this fruit wine thing.


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## Wade E (Aug 21, 2008)

You can leave the fruit loose in the must and will get better extraction that way but also makes it a little more work later but not much. Either way I would use a strainer or bag at end to squeeze out all the goodness after removing fruit. The Blackberry may benefit from MLF, just dont add any more sulfite once the wine is started. 50 ppm is all thats required to kill off wild yeast and over doing that will make it real hard to get fermentation started.
A yeast starter is always a good idea, always.


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## grapeman (Aug 22, 2008)

Unless you are experienced as a winemaker, I would Not do the MLF on the blackberry wine. It really isn't needed and if you have sulfites in the wine it will not begin. If you don't add any sulfites then you run the risk of spoilage- which you don't want. I really don't think thebenefits outweigh the risks. Just make the blackberry like normal using good sound ripe fruit and you won't need MLF.


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## Doober (Aug 22, 2008)

for the blackberry and blueberry wine, do i crush the fruit, or just pour boiling water over them to extract the juices? Do i add water to the blackberry recipe? and when and how is the best way to make a starter for these two wines. Thanks*Edited by: Doober *


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## Wade E (Aug 22, 2008)

By freezing the fruit it helps breal down the fruit and usually even splits the fruits skin open which will let the pectic enzyme get in there and do its job. I would use a fermenting bag myself and right before putting the bag in the primary I would squeeze the bag to break open any that werent split before. I would add 3/4 of a gallon of water to each 4-4 1/2 lbs of blackberries. i would make a starter for these wines the day before and here is a great link to making a yeast starter.
How-to: Yeast Starter


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## Doober (Aug 22, 2008)

thanks a million WADE, ill be atarting soon


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## Wade E (Aug 22, 2008)

Quite welcome!


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## Doober (Aug 24, 2008)

Wade, i had to add 2.5 lbs more of sugar to get the SG to 1.086 and i also had to add 13 tsp of acid blend to raise the acidity to .60 on the blueberry and had to add 1 lb of sugar to the blackberry. just to let u know. i was wondering why i added more water to the blueberry then the blackberry, how do u know how much water to add to a fruit?


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## Wade E (Aug 24, 2008)

All these adjustments will be different from fruit to fruit as each fruit has different acidic and sugar levels. Even 2 fruits retrieved from 2 different places will vary and even the same fruit picked at the same place but at different times will vary. This is why no recipe out there is truly accurate and should be adjusted by the vintner accordingly. This is why we stress tp people attempting to make a fruit wine for the first time should have the means of testing these musts. As for the blackberry requiring less water it is because you need more fruit which in turn will render more juice to the equation.


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## Doober (Aug 24, 2008)

i see


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## Wade E (Aug 24, 2008)

So how many lbs and what size batch did you make with the blackberry?


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## Doober (Aug 24, 2008)

14.5 lbs and 3 gallons of water. the TA was around.56 so i didnt adjust. i just realized that i added 6 tsp of yeast energizer to the blueberrymust instead of three tsp. will that hurt anything?


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## Bert (Aug 24, 2008)

Should make for good energized yeast....I don't see that as a problem....watch out for foam over flow, it can make a mess...


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## gaudet (Aug 24, 2008)

Yeast Roid Rage


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## Doober (Aug 30, 2008)

well, the wines went under way and the blackberry is in the secondary. How long should it sit on the gross lees and finish fermenting. 2 weeks maybe? The blueberry wine is fermenting much slower. its been 6 days now and the sg dropped to 1.046. how long do u usually wait to put it in the secondary? how long can it be in contact with the fruit? why does it ferment much slower? how long does the blueberry sit in the secondary with the gross lees?


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## Doober (Aug 31, 2008)

ttt


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## Wade E (Aug 31, 2008)

OOps, missed this 1. Good call by reviving it! I usually transfer to secondary at an SG of around 1.030 and remove any fruit between 7-10 days to make sure the fruit does not go bad. As far as the wine in secondary I typically wait till the wine is done fermenting then rack off as these lees arent as bad and can actually improve your wines mouthfeel and body. Fruit wines can ferment faster or slower and typically fruits that ferment slower are either caused by cooler temps or sometimes not enough food for the yeasties to eat. If you are at cooler temps then this can actually benefit your wine and let the fruit taste not be hidden so much by a fast fermentation. If its due to lack of nutrient then you might want to add some more nutrient to keep it plugging along. Some yeasts do require more nutrient then others such as red Star Montrachet and Lalvin RC 212. They have a tendency to throw off a sulfur smell when stressed due to lack of nutrient. Did you add both nutrient and energizer to these batches in the beginning? Nutrient and energizer are not the same thing so if you added 1 and not the other you may be starving your yeast of nitrogen or other nutrients that the yeast desperately needs to do its thing.

*Edited by: wade *


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## Doober (Aug 31, 2008)

i did add food and actually doubled the energizer on accident, just wasn't thinkin


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## Wade E (Aug 31, 2008)

Fruit wines almost always take a lot longer then a kit would so dont try and time it like a kit. As long as its fermenting dont worry.


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## Doober (Sep 3, 2008)

my blackberry has been in the primary for5 days and cleared nicely with the gross lees on the bottom and then the next day, there is a thick layer of what looks like jello and lees mixed together on the surface of the wine. This only happened in the smaller 1 gallon jugs. it doesn't smell bad. what can it be, and what should i do? i can get a picture on here later if you want.


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## Wade E (Sep 3, 2008)

I think a pic is needed for this. Did you use pectic enzyme as it sounds like pectin, if so was the enzyme fresh?


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## Doober (Sep 3, 2008)

here are the pics


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## Wade E (Sep 3, 2008)

Did you degas this wine good in all carboys. Im not sure if thats the problem but sometimes if not degassed well the gas will actually suspend all sediment at the top instead of sinking to bottom. Uther then that it could be pectin or even worse a bacteria forming from maybe not sanitizing your gallon jug well.


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## grapeman (Sep 3, 2008)

Did you rack that in the gallon jug last? It may just be pulp left from the blackberry that is floating from suspended C02.


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## Doober (Sep 3, 2008)

there are 2 jugs and a wine bottle that are like this. i cleaned, scrubed, and sanitized them all. they were the last containers that i racked into.


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## Wade E (Sep 3, 2008)

Im guessing that it is racked sediment that is stuck in suspension from C02. Try degassing which will stir it up and then it should settle at the bottom.


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## Doober (Sep 3, 2008)

ill try that


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## Doober (Sep 4, 2008)

the "pulp" settled and know it happened in the large carboy but i stirred that too. should i top up the carboy and jugs now or wait till fermentation has ended? if so, should i rack the smaller bottles and use that to top up?


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## Wade E (Sep 4, 2008)

I would wait till it is done fermenting and must say that I thought it was done fermenting or I would not have even worried about it as fermentation does that, sort of like a lava lamp. Let it finish fermenting then rack off sediment and top up then. At that point you will either want to add fining agents which will require a little haed space for degassing 1st and then for the fining agents to fit in or you could just let time do its thing which will still require degassing for it to settle at the bottom.


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## Doober (Sep 4, 2008)

thanks again wade


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2008)

Doober:


For future reference, you can search out these postings by fruitfor other peoples postings on how their wines went.
This will often times save you time and anxiety by reading about other peoples mistakes before you make them all over again.


Your suspended "jello" mass interests me to the extent that I'd pay close attention to the musts for the next several weeks for a possible repeat.


Wine quantities, are preaty much determined by the amount of fruit you have to ferment.
Small amount of fruit, small quantity of water, small quantity of wine.
The more fruit you have (within reason of course) in your ratio of water to fruit,the richer your resulting aroma and taste. See the principal of dilution.


The actual ratio difference between Blueberries and Blackberries is very near. The difference is actuallyonly their difference in size and mass and taste impact.


To my experience, Blueberries inherently take much longer to ferment out than Blackberries or Raspberries. I recomend to the first time fruit wine maker that they start with Blackberries or Raspberries rather than Blueberries only because patience in waiting out the FULL PROCESS is very limited in the first time fruit wine maker.


My latest batch of Blueberry is now in its third week and has only dropped another 2/100s on the hydrometer since racking from primary to carboy one week ago (possible fermentation issues?).


Also. General rule of thumb for fruit wines is to gently squeeze andremove the fruit bagat the 1.025 to 1.035 hydrometerrange.At that time, you can also rack offwhat ever lees may have accumulated by transfering to your carboy via gravity siphon allowing a much slower final fermentation to your 1.000 (or less as the case may be) sugar level.


When you rack, leave as little surfaceexposure as you can. This vastly reduces your risk to oxydation and other issues. You can do this by either filling your carboy to the neck level (any height in the neck is sufficient) or by adding sterilized marbles to your carboy to make up for a difference in actual volume verses bottle volume.


Last but certainly not least....


Taste, taste, taste.


Each and every time you make a change (always do so in small increments), thentaste for effect.


This wine should beall about you and not the recipe author.
That's why we try to offer only general advice rather than specific advice.


Best of the vinyards.
Handyman


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## Wade E (Sep 7, 2008)

Another thing with ratio of water to fruit is the amount of acid that a fruit has or its PH Some are very high in acids and must be diluted more or less compared to others. Same goes with PH.


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## NorthernWinos (Sep 7, 2008)

Handyman....Sounds like your Blueberry is slow going. I am anxiously awaiting making a batch...Hear Blueberry can be a little difficult due to it's natural yeast inhibitor.

Do you think if you added a little Yeast Energizer would give that yest a little boost????


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## Wade E (Sep 7, 2008)

You should add all of the yeast nutrient and 1/2 the energizer at the beginning and then the other 1/2 around 1.035. I always add 1 tsp of nutrient and 1/2 tsp per gallon to every fruit wine batch as fruit wines do not contain all or enough nutrients as grape wines do.

*Edited by: wade *


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2008)

Crud... I knew I forgot somthing.




I'm sitting here today thinking to myself, what can you do to perk this puppy up andas I'm reading your suggestion it occurs to me that I was finishing up the third beer after a hard day and out of Energizer when I mixed this batch up and thought to my self as I wassetting the lid on the primary, 'maybe you oughta go down to the local Brewmaster and get some before you add the yeast tomorow.' And then I got my fourth beer and started somthing else.


What's that saying? The road to some place or other is paved with good intentions.


I'm off for the Energizer tomorrow.


Thanks NW


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## grapeman (Sep 7, 2008)

handyman454 said:


> Crud... I knew I forgot somthing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




OK Handyman, how many beers have you had today? Will you remember it tomorrow?


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## Wade E (Sep 7, 2008)

Thats alright, I went to a new local HBS and was bummed that they didnt have 1 thing that I needed and by that time the other place had closed so I had to go today just to get shrink wraps and yeast packets. It probably cost me more in gas by the time all was said and done then what I paid for these few items. Make a list and check it twice before you start something!


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## Doober (Sep 12, 2008)

well, i racked the blackberry off of the gross lees after fermentation, sulfited and degassed. The wine is a light red color almost like a rose. there is a little fruit up front but other than that, it is pretty much like water. i quess time will tell if this wine will get any better.


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## Wade E (Sep 12, 2008)

Im a little surprised that it is that light judging by the amount of fruit to water. Were these blackberries very ripe and did you squeeze the bag of fruit to get all the juices out?


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## Doober (Sep 12, 2008)

ya, fermented without a bagto 1.000, put in a bag and squeezed out all the juice it had in it. and ya the berries were very plump and ripe. maybe im still tasting the yeast and it is dulling out the flavor?


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## Wade E (Sep 12, 2008)

The flavoer will come through both with more time and even more if you sweeten your wine.


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## ricchris (Aug 9, 2012)

is there a blueberry and blackberry wine recipe combo i would like to make blu-blackbery wine


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