# Still cloudy after Kieselsol/Chitosan pack?



## JPD (Nov 19, 2018)

I have 2 carboys presently going... Seyval Blanc & Cayuga. They are both 1 month past being racked off the primary fermentation. During that first month of secondary fermentation, the Seyval was clearing more slowly than the Cayuga during the first 2 weeks... to a point where it eventually just looked the same for the second 2 weeks of the month. The haze just didn't show any improvement over the second 2 weeks.

So over the weekend, I decided to rack the Seyval off the month of sediment and add a "Super Kleen" kieselsol/chitosan combo fining pack. It says on the pack that within 48 hours it will be cleared. The 48 hours have now passed and it is plenty cloudy. (I also added 1/4 tsp of potassium metabisulfate after the racking to cover the transfer, etc.)

I noticed the Super Kleen package says it may not clear a pectic haze... and I did add pectic enzymes to both of my juices before adding my yeasts at primary. But since I didn't really know "what" the haze in my Seyval was caused by, AND the fact that my Cayuga had pectic in it as well and it looks great, I just proceeded.

The only other info I can give is that my Seyval was definitely already fermenting when I got it, as the pressure in the jugs was forcing juice out wherever it could squeeze it out.

Any suggestions at this point? Should I just give it a month for the Super Kleer pack to do whatever it does and then re-evaluate it? 

Thanks in advance!


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## cmason1957 (Nov 19, 2018)

You have 1 month old wine. I wouldn't even worry about trying to clear it, yet. My guess is that the one that isn't clearing has more CO2 left in it at this point and it won't clear with that much gas suspended in it. Give it three months and maybe think about clearing, but even that is quick.


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## dralarms (Nov 19, 2018)

Were they juices? If so pectic haze “shouldn’t” be the problem. That said it could be anything, I had an apple that refused to clear, I even cold crashed it 3 weeks. If you think it might be pectic haze you could add a couple tablespoons of pectic enzyme, give a real good stir and let it sit for a couple weeks. There’s a test for pectic haze, I think you take 3 oz of rubbbing alcohol (91) and put it in a cup, add 1 oz of your wine and stir. It’s supposed to create “strings” and if it does then it is pectic haze. 

Hope this helps


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## JPD (Nov 19, 2018)

Thanks for the reply! I know it seems short, but it looked fairly clear, it only had a haze that just didn't look like it was going anywhere. My Cayuga, I would look at it every day and see a noticable movement in the line of clearing. I thought my Seyval just had something stubborn in it.


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## JPD (Nov 19, 2018)

Dralarms... yes, they were juices, not kits.


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## dralarms (Nov 19, 2018)

JPD said:


> Dralarms... yes, they were juices, not kits.


You don’t normally have pectic haze with juices. Unless the fruit was boiled.


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## Michael Alspaugh (Dec 5, 2018)

My question is on the same subject but different type of fruit used.
I have a peach wine that is 3 months and one week old since I started the process with thawed fresh peaches in a straining bag, things went well. I saw that the numbers were right "start 1.090 finished 0.990" the wine looked clear and I stabilized it and back sweetened it ever so slightly to bring out the fruit flavor. Then I used KC Super clean two stage but after the second stage it went cloudy again. It's been 9 days since the second stage and it still looks a little cloudy.... there is a inch of sediment on the bottom of the carboy now. Just so you know I did degas it after it reached 0.990 and added 5 campden tablets to the five gallons that remains. Is there anything I should do besides wait for it to clear? Anybody????


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## Johnd (Dec 5, 2018)

Michael Alspaugh said:


> My question is on the same subject but different type of fruit used.
> I have a peach wine that is 3 months and one week old since I started the process with thawed fresh peaches in a straining bag, things went well. I saw that the numbers were right "start 1.090 finished 0.990" the wine looked clear and I stabilized it and back sweetened it ever so slightly to bring out the fruit flavor. Then I used KC Super clean two stage but after the second stage it went cloudy again. It's been 9 days since the second stage and it still looks a little cloudy.... there is a inch of sediment on the bottom of the carboy now. Just so you know I did degas it after it reached 0.990 and added 5 campden tablets to the five gallons that remains. Is there anything I should do besides wait for it to clear? Anybody????



Before doing anything, give it a little time, couple of weeks since you used clearing agents, and see if it clears up. 

Peach is noted for high pectin content. If you get no clearing after waiting a few weeks, rack it off of the sediment into a nice, clean, sanitized carboy, and hit it with a dose of pectic enzyme. If you don't see signs of clearing within a few days, dose it again.


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## salcoco (Dec 5, 2018)

super Kleer performs better at about 70degF. if not at this level it can be very slow.

also when you first add it to the wine the combination does make it look cloudy until clearing commences.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 5, 2018)

I had a problem with a peach. Tried pectic enzyme first but Sparkalloid seemed to work better. Or it could have been a combination of both.


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## Michael Alspaugh (Dec 5, 2018)

Thanks everyone…. I read somewhere that we should double up on the pectin enzyme when we use certain fruits such as peaches. I'm now making a batch of pear wine shooting for six gallons with 25 lbs of pears to start with and 16 ozs of white raisins. Does anyone out there have an opinion on how much pectin enzyme I should use in the first stages of fermentation?


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## Michael Alspaugh (Dec 5, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Before doing anything, give it a little time, couple of weeks since you used clearing agents, and see if it clears up.
> 
> Peach is noted for high pectin content. If you get no clearing after waiting a few weeks, rack it off of the sediment into a nice, clean, sanitized carboy, and hit it with a dose of pectic enzyme. If you don't see signs of clearing within a few days, dose it again.


Thanks I will


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## cmason1957 (Dec 5, 2018)

Michael Alspaugh said:


> Thanks everyone…. I read somewhere that we should double up on the pectin enzyme when we use certain fruits such as peaches. I'm now making a batch of pear wine shooting for six gallons with 25 lbs of pears to start with and 16 ozs of white raisins. Does anyone out there have an opinion on how much pectin enzyme I should use in the first stages of fermentation?


Pears, high pectin fruit. I would use a double or triple suit of pectic enzyme. I had a part where I used a normal amount to start with and it never would clear, until I hit it with a triple dose of pectic enzyme after fermentation. We named it clearly pear.


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## porkchopmessiah (Dec 5, 2018)

im a noob for all intents and purposes, but I have a peach and a strawberry under my belt so far.....the fruit wines have been notoriously long to clear, I just went with a mini jet after 6 months...did normal racking after primary and again after 3 months, they were both fairly cloudy and did a filtering at 6 months...bottled about another month or so giving a week between each stage of filtering and one more after last filter to bottling...
that being said im going au natural with my juice buckets (valpo, sang, syrah, and a blend) till bottling maybe filtering at the end...
But im learning that time is your friend and the peach is a stubborn bugger...I can say that cmason1957 and Mainshipfred have guided me well so far and the force is strong in them...


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## Michael Alspaugh (Dec 6, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> Pears, high pectin fruit. I would use a double or triple suit of pectic enzyme. I had a part where I used a normal amount to start with and it never would clear, until I hit it with a triple dose of pectic enzyme after fermentation. We named it clearly pear.


Thanks... that confirms my thoughts... I will triple the pectin Enzyme. Is there a point where a person can use too much of it and destroy the flavor?


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## Johnd (Dec 6, 2018)

Michael Alspaugh said:


> Thanks... that confirms my thoughts... I will triple the pectin Enzyme. Is there a point where a person can use too much of it and destroy the flavor?



I've never tested the theory, but I've read here that you really can't add too much. That said, why take the chance? That's why I suggested that you slowly increase the dosage until you get the desired results.....


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## cmason1957 (Dec 6, 2018)

Michael Alspaugh said:


> Thanks... that confirms my thoughts... I will triple the pectin Enzyme. Is there a point where a person can use too much of it and destroy the flavor?


I haven't ever caused any flavor problems with either peach, pear, or Apple, all very high pectin fruits with adding massive doses of pectic enzyme. I had a real old-timer tell me it is one of the things you can add as much of as you want / need to.


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## Michael Alspaugh (Dec 6, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> I haven't ever caused any flavor problems with either peach, pear, or Apple, all very high pectin fruits with adding massive doses of pectic enzyme. I had a real old-timer tell me it is one of the things you can add as much of as you want / need to.


I started this just over one year ago making my first pear wine then two batches of plum, a rhubarb/strawberry another batch of pear now this peach and two 6 gallon batches of apple I thought to myself Pectin enzyme is a great thing as the title implies it breaks down the pectin which to me seems like more color/flavor from the fruit. Maybe I am wrong but on my apple batches I did what I read and increased the dose and they are clear as a bell you could read the bible in small print through the six gallon carboys and they are around six to eight weeks old. I have racked them several times and degassed them along with campden tablets after fermentation. However the peach I had not added as much enzyme and here we are cloud city even having done the two stage clear and the age is a couple months more. Once again thanks for your help. I could never have done this without the help I have gotten from the wine making community.


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## Michael Alspaugh (Dec 15, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> Pears, high pectin fruit. I would use a double or triple suit of pectic enzyme. I had a part where I used a normal amount to start with and it never would clear, until I hit it with a triple dose of pectic enzyme after fermentation. We named it clearly pear.


I am about to add some pectin Enzyme because after three weeks it is still in the clouds... so my question is... am I hearing you right a double or triple dose would be 15 teaspoons in five gallons of peach wine is that correct?


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## mainshipfred (Dec 15, 2018)

I'm not a counrty wine expert but following the thread that appears to be correct.


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## Michael Alspaugh (Dec 15, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> I'm not a counrty wine expert but following the thread that appears to be correct.


Thanks I put in ten teaspoons and transferred it into a new carboy so now we wait and see in ten was enough or if we need more.


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