# IS it carboy time yet?



## cecilias9 (Jul 9, 2010)

Well, my SG this morning is at 1.042.The juice is now producing a gently roll. I took another video. It has a little fizz on top now. Is it time to transfer to the carboy this evening? Any tips on how to do that most efficiently? Are we supposed to do it from the spicket at the bottom or use a siphon or some other method?



Any suggestions are appreciated...
Cecilia


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## Brewgrrrl (Jul 9, 2010)

As long as it's fermenting this actively, there is plenty of CO2 forming a layer above the juice and you don't need to worry about transferring it over. I often transfer later than sooner (6+ days), because often when you transfer the wine the yeast gets stirred up and active again.


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## fivebk (Jul 9, 2010)

I would wait untill the SG is 1.010- 1.020 . there will still be plenty of co2 in the wine to protect it and you won't get a wine volcano

BOB


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## vcasey (Jul 9, 2010)

I agree with Brewgrrrl &amp; Bob about waiting to rack. Racking too early will stir up the yeast and really get them working hard and when you rack it into a carboy, especially with that high an SG, it has less space and expands out the top and all that wonderful wine ends up on the floor instead of in the bottle where it belongs. I ferment mine to dry right in the primary which has the added advantage of making degassing easier.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 9, 2010)

Thank you very much, all of you!


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## smurfe (Jul 9, 2010)

I try to transfer around 1.020 as well. I like to wait till the rolling fermentation is over so I can fill the carboy to the neck and not worry about it getting up in the airlock or blowing it out.


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## Wade E (Jul 9, 2010)

If you did rack you would most likely have a colored ceiling like I said in the other post. It will not have enough room in the carboy or that active of a fermentation and either clog the airlock and explode or just foam up and out all over the place. Either rack at around 1.015 or there abouts or let it finish in primary with lid and airlock.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 9, 2010)

Thank you all for your comments. 


I know I am not there yet, but what exactly is degassing? 


I thought you had to transfer to a carboy and not leave the wine in the plastic bucket... See how much i Don't know. Hmmm. Why is it that almost all the pictures show wine fermenting in a carboy??? What are the advantages of the carboy over the primary? I know... lots of questions.


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## Wade E (Jul 9, 2010)

You dont have to transfer to glass if its still fermenting. The thought behind it is to get the wine over to carboy while its still fermenting a little so that there will be a layer of C02 on top of your carboy to protect the wine but if you have your carboy properly filled there is so little room that its not of importance. The way I look at it as once you take the airlock out once that small layer would be gone anyway. The main reasons I like to ferment to dry in bucket is that 1) when racking you can leave behind too much viable yeast thus sometimes your wine doesnt finish fermenting and 2) by having it in the bucket the wine degases itself much more. Degassing is the act of disturbing your wine so that all the C02 that was made during fermentation is dispersed and this should be done at temps of around 75* as cooler temps make it much harder to get that C02 out of suspension. If you have trapped C02 in your wine your wine will not clear properly as the gases are holding the sediment is suspension.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 10, 2010)

Wade,


Thank you for your explanations. But... what exactly does it mean "to ferment to dry."???And if you leave it in the bucket, at what point do you put an airlock on it. 


I think with muscadines it would be important? to transfer to carboy on account of Waldo saying that there is a great danger of oxidation with the muscadine wine? And there might be too much air space in the primary?


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## Brewgrrrl (Jul 10, 2010)

Dry = all the sugars are gone

(I was going to tease you and say to leave it alone until it all evaporated)


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## Wade E (Jul 10, 2010)

I ferment almost all of my wines in my bucket but to each their own. I put a lid and airlock on at around 1.020 and in doing so the gases will protect in until opened just like in a carboy except by doing it this way you can let it finish fermenting and then rack it off all the sediment ( a little more then racking it early) as the wine has stopped fermenting which will let more sediment fall out and also let the wine degas more.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 10, 2010)

How do you know when it is finished fermenting and when all the sugar is gone? And then do you rack into a carboy so you can see how clear it is becoming?


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## grapeman (Jul 10, 2010)

I think it would be a good idea for you to start out racking to a carboy at 1.010. That is a good Specific gravity to do it at. It won't create a volcano at that SG, but will still have enough sugars to create adequate C02 to fill the headspace. Wade has been making wine for a few years now, so he uses some shortcuts that might not let a new winemaker get the whole experience. After in glass, you can see the wine and watch it clear, watch the airlock go, etc. It gives you a sense of satisfaction. 


Dry wine means it has no residual sugars in it and generally means it is between 0.990 and 0.996. After your wine has gotten to that level and remains the same reading for a few days, it is finished fermenting and considered dry.


Good luck Cecilia, sounds like it is doing well. Keep following Waldo's instructions and you won't go wrong.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 10, 2010)

Well, at 9:10 pm I took the temp. It was 72 degrees. The SG is at 1.013, so it looks like I will be transferring to the carboy tomorrow morning after Mass. I am looking forward to watching it; although, according to Waldo, I should put it in the closet or cover it so the light does not cause trouble. But I will still peak at it every day. This being the first time and all; I just can't help it.



I have taste tested and it is pretty good for fermenting muscadine juice. YAY.


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## Wade E (Jul 11, 2010)

You dont need a closet just a place out of the sunlight or you can put a T shirt over the carboy. Others even take the box the carboy came in and flip it over and cut a small hole in the top for the airlock.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 11, 2010)

Now that's a good idea, using the box it came in! Thank you.


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## Wade E (Jul 11, 2010)

Glad to be of help.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 11, 2010)

Well, it was finally carboy time this morning. My SG was at 1.006, so we transferred to the carboy at about 12:30 pm, after washing and sanitizing everything. I just checked on the wine and it is bubbling nicely in the airlock. We have some in the five gallon carboy with plenty of head room and then some in a half-gallon jug with headroom. Since there was still a little juice left over my husband poured it and most of the sludge that was on the bottom into a gallon jug which is also bubbling, but is only about 1/2 full. I guess that one is "his experiment." And I have no idea what he is thinking about it - other than he wants to see what it will do?




I do have questions though.Itseems to me thatevery time you rack, some wine will be lost, soif you make a 5 gallon batch how much wine do you really end up with usually? And what are you supposed to do towards the end when you are not supposed to havevery much headroom? Thank you. Cecilia


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## Wade E (Jul 11, 2010)

This is why when making a wine from scratch always start with more then 
you need like making a 5 1/2 gallon batch and do as you did and rack to 
the 5 and the 1. When its done fermenting add all your ingredients like 
sulfite and sorbate and stir really good (degas) before topping up so 
that you have room and so you dont get the dreaded wine volcano and once
degassed add your fining agent and then top up. Here is a picture of 
what we mean with a a wine volcano below! This is caused buy not 
starting to degas nice and easy and once you get some of the gas out 
then you can get a little more violent with it to get the rest out!


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## cecilias9 (Jul 11, 2010)

Oh my goodness! I hope I don't have that kind of a mess to clean up




. Here is a picture of my 1/2 gallon jug. I forgot to take pictures before my husband put them in the closet. Oh well. The color is rather "peachy". But that's because we had far more bronze muscadines than blue ones. This year I will not pick them together, but separate by color so we can make a really pretty red wine... like Waldo's



How long do I wait for the next racking - or I should say what is the sign that it is the right time to rack again?


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## Wade E (Jul 11, 2010)

It will most likely finish fermenting within the next week but leave it in there for about 2-3 weeks without taking the lid or airlock off. At that time it should be starting to clear on its own. At that time I would sulfite, add sorbate and degas and if using a fining agent add that also then immediately top up. If not using a fining agent then sulfite, sorbate and degas and top up.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 11, 2010)

Thank you, Wade. Well I know degassing is mixing it up quickly, I've seen it done on the Internet with a drill? (don't have to use a drill, do I), but what is the sulfite and sorbate? I don't remember Waldo's recipe calling for anything else? I know fining is supposed to make everything fall down into the sediment and help to clear the wine. But how will I know if I should use it? I think I am supposed to use a campden tablet just before bottling, but that is all I thought I needed to add.

Cecilia


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## Wade E (Jul 12, 2010)

Campden is sulfite but if you are going to sweeten the wine after its done fermenting then you need to add sorbate to prevent a renewed fermentation. Sulfite is used in the beginning to sanitize equipment and also in your unfermented wine to stun the wild yeast so that your wine yeast which is more tolerant of sulfite can take hold and start fermenting. Wine yeast is much more predictable as far as producing a favorable flavor with your wine and also with fermenting all the sugars and not doing a 1/2 a$$ job and stopping mid fermentation. If you like a wine that is a little sweeter then what we do this when the wine is fermented we stabilize (sulfite and sorbate) the wine and then add a dissolved sugar to it until the desired sweetness is achieved. Youll know when your wine is done fermenting by taking 2-3 sg readings a few days apart and getting the same (stable) readings. As far as adding a fining agent (clearing agent) to your wine thats up to you. You can either wait a few months as most wines will clear by themselves or you can use a product like SuperKleer which will do it in about 2 weeks. Most people use a fining in the beginning as they want to get some wine under there belt and done but after you have a decent supply built up there is no rush at all an we usually get lazy and cheap and just let time do its thing. Some people call it having patience though but dont let them fool you.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 12, 2010)

Thank you for your explanations. I think I'd rather let the wine do its own thing rather than add anythingthat is not trulynecessary. I personally don't like a sweet wine, so I think I'll let it be what it is, unless itturns out really sour. But I tasted it before we transferred it and it seemed o.k. to me. (I am by no means a wine connoisseur.) So I will proceed under the impression that all I will have to do is add the campden before bottling.
I am a little concerned about the racking process. Waldo had said to be careful with oxidation with muscadines and I have read it about other wines as well -- that is to be very careful racking so as not to oxidize too much. I don't see how it can be helped unless you have two carboys of the same size... I suppose we should get another five gallon so that we can transfer directly into it instead of into a bucket and then back into the carboy? Wine kits only come with one...so that's all we have. They are expensive! Ah well. I do want to continue with this, so we may as well justbite the bullet. Thanks again.
Cecilia


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## Wade E (Jul 12, 2010)

Oh dont worry, youll be buying more carboys!!!!!!!!



And everytime you do youll still need another just like us until you have about 8 and for most of us thats enough but for some other people (Tom aka Tepe) thats not even close to enough. Just make sure you keep ypour wine sulfited and there will be no problem. Make sure when your wine is done fermenting you add the Campden (sulfite) and then again after about 3-4 months of carboy (bulk) aging. As far as clearing agents go there are wines that will need a fining agent and those are usually Peach and Apple.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 13, 2010)

Well I can always put TWO CARBOYS on my Christmas list every year and in no time I'll have what I need. We grow plums, apples, pears, figs, blueberries, cherries, and strawberries, and of course muscadines. Oh wouldn't I love to make a strawberry wine! And I can always pick peaches or get them at the farmer's market. One of these years I can envision making herbal wine, maybe peppermint to start out... But first things first. My muscadine has to take its time... I don't want to rush anything.


Thanks for all your help. I doubt if I would have remembered to add the campden when it was finished fermenting... How do I extract wine from the carboy to check the SG readings and how long after it stops bubbling should I do that?


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## fivebk (Jul 13, 2010)

You can purchase a wine theif from george very inexpensive or just use your syphon hose ( suck a little into the tube ,block with your finger and transfer it to the measuring devise.
You can check the wine anytime, just look for readings the same .

BOB


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## Wade E (Jul 13, 2010)

It really sounds like you need to buy a steam juicer to can all those juices from fruits until you can gather enough vessels for both primary an long term storage such as carboys or demijohns. If you can it you can store it on your shelf until you have a free carboy. Lots of people including Waldo and Gaudet use these. If had that much fruit available to me I'd buy one myself..


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## vcasey (Jul 13, 2010)

Just make sure you get stainless steal. I love mine!
http://www.ultimate-weight-products.com/page/UN/PROD/stainless/H-bb-n12&amp;QTS=nextag&amp;QTK=H-bb-n12


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## cecilias9 (Jul 13, 2010)

The only thing I amconcerned about is that the steam might kill the vitamins and antioxidants. So says some of the material I have been reading. I am trying to do my research



. I appreciate all input from users of steam juicers concerningthat issue.


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## Waldo (Jul 14, 2010)

How do I extract wine from the carboy to check the SG readings and how long after it stops bubbling should I do that?[/QUOTE] 






An inexpensive Turkey baster works well for drawing wine from your carboy too. Just make sure it is a new one and not previously used. And sanitize it before using too


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## Bartman (Jul 14, 2010)

As far as the vitamins and antioxidants, some are more fragile than others. Some start to break down as soon as the fruit is harvested, so fresh fruit/vegetables are always the highest in the "good stuff." Wine, however, is the opposite of "Fresh" fruit - in the end, whatever means you use to extract the juice from the fruit is not going to make much difference to the "healthiness" of the finished product because fermentation and the oxidation that is required will break down those more fragile antioxidants anyway.

'Course, I'm no biochemist, but I am certain that anything made from home-grown fruits/vegetables is going to be healthier ultimately than stuff made from commercially grown produce, simply because commercially grown produce requires certain growing practices that protect the safety of the produce but those practices yield lower overall quality.


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## cecilias9 (Jul 14, 2010)

Bart,
It'sgood to know about the breakdown of the good stuff regardless of how you extract the juice. Guess I just need to be eating those blue muscadines raw! Makes me want a steam juicer all the more




Thanks


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## Waldo (Jul 14, 2010)

Need to make hubby a Muscadine pie too


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## cecilias9 (Jul 14, 2010)

A Muscadine Pie? Never heard of it! A pie made of grapes? That's a new one on me. Have you ever eaten one, Waldo, or made one yourself???


Oh, now plum pie -- that's the pie. Oh yeah, that is heaven on earth!






Waldo, do you grow your own muscadines?


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## Wade E (Jul 15, 2010)

He does grow some Muscadines but not as much as he would like Im sure but hopefully that will change in time. Im willing to bet he's made that muscie pie and judging from every pic hes ever put on this forum Id bet my life that it was lip smackin delish!


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## Waldo (Jul 15, 2010)

cecilias9 said:


> A Muscadine Pie? Never heard of it! A pie made of grapes? That's a new one on me. Have you ever eaten one, Waldo, or made one yourself???
> 
> 
> http://forum.finevinewines.com//forum_posts.asp?TID=6956&amp;KW=Muscadine+pie


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## cecilias9 (Jul 15, 2010)

Oh my goodness, you are quite the chef! If you send a recipe I will try it



. You are a man of many talents, so it would seem.


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