# Is "Anti-oxidant" powder the same as ascorbic acid?



## BenPhi485 (Mar 30, 2018)

I have a recipe from "Mary's Recipes" that asks for anti oxidant power, but I can't find it online as to be used for wine making. I did see that ascorbic acid is an antioxidant. Is that what the recipe is asking for?

Thanks
Ben


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## Ajmassa (Mar 30, 2018)

I gotta think that just means some form of sulphites. Potassium metabisulphite sodium meta/ Camden tablets/sulphur dioxide/so2. Protecting the wine from bacteria and oxidizing from o2 exposure. 
What’s the amount of wine and dose of “anti-oxidant”?


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## BenPhi485 (Mar 30, 2018)

Thanks Aj. It calls for 1/2 tsp/gallon.


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## Johnd (Mar 30, 2018)

BenPhi485 said:


> Thanks Aj. It calls for 1/2 tsp/gallon.



That’s pretty stiff for k-meta, 1/4 tsp for every 6 gallons is the normal dosage.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 30, 2018)

Well I tried. But 1/2 tsp per gal kinda throws that guess out the window. Post the recipe pic/link if you can.


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## Johnd (Mar 30, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Well I tried. But 1/2 tsp per gal kinda throws that guess out the window. Post the recipe pic/link if you can.



Agree with AJ, if you can post the recipe, we can probably figure out what the recipe is referring to as “antioxidant powder”. Definitely do not put k-meta in at 1/2 tsp/gallon!


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## BenPhi485 (Mar 30, 2018)

It doesn't mention the antioxidant powder til the bottom of the 1st paragraph


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## Ajmassa (Mar 30, 2018)

No clue. Sulphite (Camden tab) and sorbate (‘stabilizer’ if backsweetening) are accounted for in there. Anti-oxididant at bottling is a new one to me. Either way not a crucial part of recipe since Wine is clear and stable ready for the bottle at that point. 
Curious what that’s all about myself.


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## BenPhi485 (Mar 30, 2018)

Lol, right?


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## Johnd (Mar 30, 2018)

Yep, right before bottling and after a few months racking is when you’d add sulfite. Confusing thing is that it refers to Campden tablets, which are k-meta. My advice is to use the Campden tablets (crushed, one per gallon) at bottling time.


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## Johnd (Mar 30, 2018)

After a little searching for “antioxidant powder in winemaking”, all roads led back to potassium metabisulfite. Review the link below from Pi Wine. I’m still thinking you need to use K-meta, tablets or powder, your choice. 

http://www.piwine.com/media/home-wine-making-basics/Intro-to-Antioxidants-and-Preservatives.pdf


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## Ajmassa (Mar 30, 2018)

But recipe still calls for 1/2 tsp per gal. Which is Bottling up flavored sanitizer solution essentially. And why change wording from Camden tab to “anti-oxidant powder” if its referring to sulphites anyway? 
Still the right move to add some. Like Johnd said Either 1 Camden tab a gal as or 1/4 tsp powder per 6 gal as said. 
I think you should give “Mary” a holler and let her know her recipe’s final step is suspect.


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## BenPhi485 (Mar 31, 2018)

Lol, yeah I'll give her a call. Thanks for the input guys!


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## Scooter68 (Mar 31, 2018)

I'd chalk that one up to an editor or editor's assistant that didn't know diddly about wine making. Fall back on to reality of K-meta/Campden tablets and Potassium Sorbate. 

Treat the "anti-oxidant" as an aberration in the recipe.

Note that their ABV estimate is off as well. 1.090 starting SG would result in 13.13 in a dry wine. It's not way off but definitely off. It again looks like someone took liberties with the actual recipe. 1.090 fermented to 1.000 would yield an ABV of 11.81 which I could see an editor/or assistant rounding off to 12% Again not the work of someone who makes wine all the time.


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## meadmaker1 (Mar 31, 2018)

My guess is that , it is refering to some sort of mixed stabilizing powder. 
Potassium sorbate label calls for 1/2 tsp per gallon
The recipe also says to add crushed "tablets" but only lists one in the ingredient list
For these exact reasons I always compair recipes, looking for common ground, and adjust them to what I think will produce a product I will like, or what I has worked for me in the past.


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## mainshipfred (Mar 31, 2018)

I found this, they could be referring to Ascobic Acid. not sure how much it weighs but they are calling for .25 grams per gallon. Could be 1/2 tsp.
*
Ascorbic Acid *is an anti-oxidant used as a partial substitute for sulfur dioxide, or used to prevent oxidation, which creates a dull and unpleasant flavor, and to prevent discoloring in the final product. Recommended for wines that discolor easily.

Ascorbic Acid, like Copper Sulfate, is often used to treat hydrogen sulfide (H2S) or ‘mercaptans’, which presents as a rotten egg scent in your wine. Try treating first with Copper Sulfate but if the problem persists, then treatment with Ascorbic Acid will be necessary. If you have advanced H2S ‘disulfide’, the scent could be described as burnt rubber or garlic-like and the wine will not improve with the treatment of Copper Sulfate alone. The use of 0.25gm Ascorbic Acid per gallon will often help by converting the disulfides back to mercaptans. The process may take up to three weeks, after which the wine should be treated with Copper Sulfate.

Use 0.25 grams of ascorbic acid per gallon.


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## Scooter68 (Mar 31, 2018)

Obviously adding ascorbic acid to a wine 'just because' is not a great idea especially give the info in the quote above. 

I would totally ignore that statement. 

What is the source of that recipe?


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## BenPhi485 (Mar 31, 2018)




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## sour_grapes (Mar 31, 2018)

Huh! That book is from a past president our our local winemaking club (Wisconsin Vintner's Assoc.) and operator of a 1st-generation LHBS.


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## Scooter68 (Apr 1, 2018)

Well then, there is a source to go to and ask. 

And they are still selling the book.


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## stickman (Apr 1, 2018)

Ascorbic acid use has been recommended for delicate wines, usually white wine, that often brown easily. The main issue is that you have to be sure to have enough free sulfite present before the ascorbic acid is added. The full article from WSU starts on page 9 of the following news letter.


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## Scooter68 (Apr 1, 2018)

Sort of curious why a book clearly written for those starting out, would contain directions for use of something that, without proper conditions, could adversely affect a wine.

In a recipe book like that I would expect all recipes to follow the KISS principles. Leave such additives and direction for the more advanced, experienced and well equipped wine makers. Sorry to be negative, but in the past 2 1/2 years on here I have seen all sorts of errors made, made a few myself even with clear and simple instructions. In a beginners book I would expect to see 'tried and true' or a clear labeling that a recipe requires some additional knowledge and/or experience to attempt.


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## BenPhi485 (Apr 1, 2018)

Yeah, it is confusing for new guys like me. Thankfully I have this forum as a resource! Thank you all for all the help!


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