# An Unplanned Batch of Muscadine



## Waldo (May 11, 2007)

33 lbs. Muscadines


10 lbs. Sugar


1-1/4 tsp Liquid. Pectic Enzyme


6 tsp. Yeast Nutrient


2 tsp. Yeast Energizer


5/8 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite


3 oz Calcium Carbonate



1 Package Montrachet Yeast
Monday evening I was greeted upon arriving home from work with a chest freezer of half thawded meats, veggies and 33lbs. of Muscadines.




I moved the muscadines to the fridge where they continued thawing until Tuesday evening. I processed them using the ole mash em up in a zip loc bag method and ended up with almost 2-1/2 gallons Muscadine juice. I placed them in a freshly sanitized pair of panty hose and into the primary fermenter they went. Boiled 2 gallon water, dissolving my 10 lbs sugar in it. Cooled it down, poured into my fermenter along with Potassium Metabisulfite, Nutrient, Energizer and Calcium Carbonate which I had dissolved good in some of the Muscadine juice. I added another gallon water, stirred the must well and let it sit until the next evening. I gave the must anoter good stirring, adding the Pectic Enzyme and then checked the SG of the must which was at 1.102. The acidity was still a bit high upon tasting so I dissolved another ounce of Calcium Carbonate and added it to the must, stirring well. I let this sit until Thursday evening, Gave it all another good stirring, checked SG and it was still right on 1.102, the acidity, by taste was just right so I rehydrated my yeast in warm water and then pitched it to the must. This morning, them yeasties were already hard at work.


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## grapeman (May 11, 2007)

That's a shame about the freezer Waldo. The Muscadine wine I know is going to be good. Not sure how the meat wine would turn out though. Better have a Barbeque instead!


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## jobe05 (May 11, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your freezer Waldo, I hear they make good planters though. At least you have set your priorities straight, save the muscadine, put the meat in the fridge till the weekend and trash the veggies.............................


Funny however, I never noticed you adding calcium carbinate. I bought some when I was getting ready to make my last batch because I was compairing my first batch to a commercial bottle. Mine was acidic, but the commercial was not, yet had more muscadine flavor. I opened another bottle last night of the commercial and thought to myself, when I get ready to do the muscadines I have in my freezer, I'm going to concentrate it a little more and use the calcium carbonate to cut the acid. Be interested to hear how yours turns out. Looks good so far.


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## grapeman (May 11, 2007)

I "MUST" be seeing things this AM. It looks like Waldo stuffed one of the Grumpy Old Muppets in the stocking. I can see his head showing through- look on the left side. There are his googly eyes, nose , mouth and big chin!












*Edited by: appleman *


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## NorthernWinos (May 11, 2007)

I hate to say what it all looks like to me.....


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## Wade E (May 11, 2007)

Thats just your excuse to make another batch of Muscadines, now plug it back in Waldo!!!!!


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## scotty (May 11, 2007)

Waldo, You are a talented wine maker but way too rough on your nylons


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## PolishWineP (May 11, 2007)

He tried them on a few times but decided he just doesn't have the legs for them!


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## Wade E (May 11, 2007)

Only his wine has the legs! Punn intended!


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## Waldo (May 12, 2007)

I'm the only person I know who has wine with runners in it




The Muscadine continues fermenting strongly. Is beginning to extract that rich color and Muscadine flavor



*Edited by: Waldo *


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## jobe05 (May 12, 2007)

Waldo, looking good there buddy.


Have you tried using different yeast yet on all these batches that you make ? Have you noticed a difference in flavor?


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## scotty (May 12, 2007)

A question about Muscadines. Did I read that Muscadines are high in pectin???
I see you used the enzyme. Basicly, I am wondering if the enzyme is left for mor than 24 hours before pitching, if the enzime will be more effective.


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## Waldo (May 12, 2007)

jobe05 said:


> Waldo, looking good there buddy.
> 
> 
> Have you tried using different yeast yet on all these batches that you make ? Have you noticed a difference in flavor?




I have jobe and after all my experiments I have keyed in on the Montrachet as the yeast of choice in overall balance of the finished wine. It yields a better color, nose and taste than any of the others I have tried.


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## Waldo (May 12, 2007)

scotty said:


> A question about Muscadines. Did I read that Muscadines are high in pectin???
> I see you used the enzyme. Basicly, I am wondering if the enzyme is left for mor than 24 hours before pitching, if the enzime will be more effective.




You are correct scotty, the Muscadine is high in pectin but as to whether it would benifit from an extended exposure to the enzyme before pitching the yeast I cannot say. I do know however that I have yet to have a problem with pectin haze on any of the batches I have done just using the standard recommended amount of time. There is an excellen article on Muscadines published by the University of Arkansas that I would highly recommend for anyone interested in Muscadines.
http://www.uark.edu/depts/agripub/Publications/bulletins/974.pdf


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## jobe05 (May 12, 2007)

Thats great reading Waldo, Ilike what I read so far. Will have to print that one.


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## Waldo (May 12, 2007)

I found it to be very informative too jobe.


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## jobe05 (May 12, 2007)

I don't know if Steaming the juice would be an equivlant to what they consider "Hot Press" Vs "Cold Press", but based on their findings for taste and color, steaming, or Hot Press is the way to go. I should have ordered more Carlos also.....................


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## Waldo (May 13, 2007)

That was what sold me on going ahead and getting my steamer jobe. My niece has it borrowed right now or I would have steamed this batch I have going now. I have enough left from last year in my freezer in the shop to do one more batch so I hope mine &amp; Boyd's Musacdines do well this year.


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## Trigham (May 13, 2007)

Waldo, I am excited to keep watching this thread, But I havetwo questions about the panty hose thing. I read everywhere that people put thier fresh fruit in a straining bag and leave it in the primary while doing it work, then squeeze it out when transferring to the carboy ,(Right?). Well one question is that when I made my very first batch from the concordes in my backyard I just mushed them in the primary and left them the way they were in the primary, when finishedI used a straining bag and poured the must into a new primary through the straining bag, then squeezed the remains and discarded the mush so to speak at that time, so my question is which way would u suggest woud be easier or does it matter ? Second question is how did you sanitize the hose and what do u use to tie them so nothing escapes and has it ever produced a run (lol) or broken on you when stirring ever?
Thanks


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## scotty (May 13, 2007)

He tries to resist wearing them first. At least thats what I do


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## Waldo (May 14, 2007)

Trigham said:


> Waldo, I am excited to keep watching this thread, But I havetwo questions about the panty hose thing. I read everywhere that people put thier fresh fruit in a straining bag and leave it in the primary while doing it work, then squeeze it out when transferring to the carboy ,(Right?). Well one question is that when I made my very first batch from the concordes in my backyard I just mushed them in the primary and left them the way they were in the primary, when finishedI used a straining bag and poured the must into a new primary through the straining bag, then squeezed the remains and discarded the mush so to speak at that time, so my question is which way would u suggest woud be easier or does it matter ? Second question is how did you sanitize the hose and what do u use to tie them so nothing escapes and has it ever produced a run (lol) or broken on you when stirring ever?
> Thanks




Trig. I prefer using the straining bag or panty hose in my case on the front end as it makes for a lot easier and cleaner job of racking. A quicker and neater cleanup. That is just my personal preference. As for sanitizing the panty hose, I just give them a good washing in my sanitizer. Wring them out and fill em up. I did have one batch where the hose busted on me and it was quite the mess at racking time. I just finished squeezing all the goodies I could from this batch this evening and racked to a carboy at an SG of 1.020. It is tasting quite good, acid seems to be about right and still quite yeasty smelling. 











*Edited by: Waldo *


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## NorthernWinos (May 14, 2007)

Are those tomatoes from your garden?????


P.S. The wine looks nice too.


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## jobe05 (May 14, 2007)

Your making my mouth water there Waldo. Looks good..


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## Trigham (May 16, 2007)

Thank you Waldo, Sorry I took so long getting back to you but I forgot to tag the post.
I thinkI may try that up front method next timeI do a fresh fruit. What did u use to tie the big end (waist) of the panty hose with (string?). also I see that your primary has a tap on the bottem of it. did it come that way, or did you add it? how do u get the last inch or two out when racking to the carboy? One more thing what is the funnel in the carboy with what looks like water there for?
Forgive me for so many questions but to learn I must ask!


Thanks 
Trig


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## NorthernWinos (May 16, 2007)

Trigham said:


> Thank you Waldo, Sorry I took so long getting back to you but I forgot to tag the post.
> Trig








Also Trigham if you go to Active Topics at the top of the page you get to see all the new Posts...


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## Trigham (May 16, 2007)

Northern Winos said:


> Trigham said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Waldo, Sorry I took so long getting back to you but I forgot to tag the post.
> ...




So much to learn and so little time. I think I am hooked for sure!! 
Thank you NV


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## scotty (May 16, 2007)

i noticed the tap too--my italian valve leaks so i will never use that pail for a primary fermenter now. It will be just for bottling. I am being led to buy the 9 gallon primary from Krause and hope that the shut off mechanism has closer tolerancesis--(no leaking when it is in the off position.)


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## Wade E (May 16, 2007)

Trig, as far as getting the last bit out all you need to do is tip the
carboy. I have 1 on every primary as it makes life so much easier as
gravity does the job instead of siphoning. Great for bottling too. You
can buy the primaries with them or without and install you own. I
installed all my own. Some kits have you leave most of the lees behind
and this is really easy as you just dont tilt much.


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## Trigham (May 17, 2007)

wade said:


> Trig, as far as getting the last bit out all you need to do is tip the carboy. I have 1 on every primary as it makes life so much easier as gravity does the job instead of siphoning. Great for bottling too. You can buy the primaries with them or without and install you own. I installed all my own. Some kits have you leave most of the lees behind and this is really easy as you just dont tilt much.




Wade I think I am a visual guy, I have to see things to absorb them properly. its a fault but I do learn that way. I should find someone close to me who actually does a lot of the things that get talked about on the forum and then I would be more comfortable with trying them on my own. what did u use to drill the holes, obviously there is a seal or washer on both sides to stop leakage? If i do try to drill it is there a set hight from bottom to put the tap?


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## bj4271 (May 17, 2007)

Trig, 


I figured outit's cheaper to buy a primary fermenter already drilled &amp; tapped, with lid than to buy the individual components - much less the hassle of having to drill/install the tap.*Edited by: bj4271 *


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## grapeman (May 17, 2007)

Waldo I just thought about something you mentioned at the beginning of the post. You used the ole mash and roll method to extract the juice. Was there a reason for this as opposed to steam extraction? How do you compare both methods now for flavors and body?


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## Coaster (May 17, 2007)

"I am being led to buy the 9 gallon primary from Krause and hope that the shut off mechanism has closer tolerances"


I have a 9 gal primary from that other place.I have to tell you I hate it and replaced it with a 7.9g from George. The pain comes in the cleaning. Let me explain if I can. The fermenter is a box shape; however, on the top edge, where the top screws into the box the flange is gluedon. Now when you turn the box over to empty it or rinse out the box, some of the fluid (wine, water, k-meta, elderberry seeds, yeast, whatever) gets into the little crack between the flange and the box. No matter how fast you flip it some gets in and when you turn it over, it falls back into the box. You can drain it from the spigot only, but it's a lot of work (especially for elderberry seeds or oak or anything other than fluid, even the lees are a challenge sometimes). If it weren't for the seem I would have kept using it. It fits on my counter better, the lid is screw on, it's more sturdy, it holds more, I have 2 actually and they are stackable. I used it for months with 16 or morekits. I would ensure that I only drained thru the spigot to make sure none got in the flange after teh first fewbut that always left some in the fermenter soI would have the spigot open and shake the box up and down until most of it went out the spigot, then I would use a wad of paper towels to sop up the last little bit. Lots of really good reasons but the designer forgot to clean one after making wine while testing the prototype. Being able to turn George's on it's side and rise out with the sink sprayer outweighed all the good stuff the other one had. My $.02.


I made a Piesporter in mine the very first wine and made the mistake of turning it over to empty it. I had elderberry seeds in the seem for many many batches. There may well be some in there now.


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## Coaster (May 17, 2007)

applemanWas there a reason for this as opposed to steam extraction? [/QUOTE said:


> I think he said the steamer was on loan to someone in his family.


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## Wade E (May 17, 2007)

Trig I agree that it is easier to just buy a primary with the spout but
I already had 4 without, so I used a Forstner bit but could use a spade
bit. I went high enough to clear the surface of a table or floor + just
a little extra room to be safe. That works out just perfect for the
spigots I use and once you use one you will kick your self in the butt
for not getting 1 sooner! And yes they have a gasket on both sides and
do not overtighten them when installing. They just need to be snug and
they also swivel.


*Edited by: wade *


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## grapeman (May 17, 2007)

You are right Coaster, Waldo did say he had it on loan to his Niece. I missed that entry somehow....... Still would like to know if there is any perceivable difference between the two methods. Waldo? *Edited by: appleman *


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## Waldo (May 20, 2007)

Sorry appleman but I have been "under the weather" for the past few days. Thus far, I still prefer the steamed vs conventional. The overall wine seems to have more of the Muscaddine flavor, the color is deeper and richer though I do think the steamed juice is quicker to oxidize if not handled properly insofar as limiting exposure to the air once fermentation has slowed or completed. The nose of the steamed juice is definately better than the pressed. Hope this has answered your question and it's good to be back amongst friends. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 20, 2007)

Must be something to this Muscadine stuff, as I hear the Symphony everyone is raving about is a cross of Muscat and Grenache Gris grapes.


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## grapeman (May 20, 2007)

Waldo said:


> I am sick and tired of being sick and tired




I hear you there Buddy. I had the Creeping Crudd earlier this year and it just seemed to hang on forever. Get over one symptom and two more would hit, then another and another.... 


Hope you feel 110% soon there Waldo.


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## jobe05 (May 20, 2007)

Waldo: Sorry to hear that you are sick. I had a "head cold" as the doctor called it upon my 3rd visit. I was taking 3000 mg Amoxicillin and 800 mg Pseudovent per day, plus the usual Nyquil at night, Tylanol etc....... not to mention about 2 bags of cough drops per day. 


After 3 weeks, someone said to take 1000 MG of Vitamin C, just once in the morning. I did and 2 days later, GONE!!!!! 


JW: There is a big difference between Muscat Grapes and Muscadine's. Per Waldo, Muscadines are not Grapes..... and they arn't. They have a very musty, foxy flavor to them. They come in Bronze color to black color depending on te variety. In a few weeks I'll be starting another batch since I am out right now. You'll have to PM me your address when I get it done and I'll send ya a small bottle to try. Warning however..... Not everyone likes this flavor of wine. It has a flavor all of it's owne.*Edited by: jobe05 *


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## scotty (May 20, 2007)

Coaster said:


> "I am being led to buy the 9 gallon primary from Krause and hope that the shut off mechanism has closer tolerances"
> 
> 
> I have a 9 gal primary from that other place.I have to tell you I hate it and replaced it with a 7.9g from George. The pain comes in the cleaning. Let me explain if I can. The fermenter is a box shape; however, on the top edge, where the top screws into the box the flange is gluedon. Now when you turn the box over to empty it or rinse out the box, some of the fluid (wine, water, k-meta, elderberry seeds, yeast, whatever) gets into the little crack between the flange and the box. No matter how fast you flip it some gets in and when you turn it over, it falls back into the box. You can drain it from the spigot only, but it's a lot of work (especially for elderberry seeds or oak or anything other than fluid, even the lees are a challenge sometimes). If it weren't for the seem I would have kept using it. It fits on my counter better, the lid is screw on, it's more sturdy, it holds more, I have 2 actually and they are stackable. I used it for months with 16 or morekits. I would ensure that I only drained thru the spigot to make sure none got in the flange after teh first fewbut that always left some in the fermenter soI would have the spigot open and shake the box up and down until most of it went out the spigot, then I would use a wad of paper towels to sop up the last little bit. Lots of really good reasons but the designer forgot to clean one after making wine while testing the prototype. Being able to turn George's on it's side and rise out with the sink sprayer outweighed all the good stuff the other one had. My $.02.
> ...




Ill take your advice about not trying the 9 gallon fermenter even though the screw on top and ist size still tempts me, but i still would like a spiggot that doesnt leak. The italian one is not very good. The installation is done to almost micrometer tollerances. I have read that others on this board also have leak problems wit the valve when it is in the off position.

*Edited by: scotty *


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## rgecaprock (Jun 13, 2007)

Waldo,
I revisited this thread because I'll be getting some muscadines next weekend and I want to be prepared!!! I think you probably saw the pictures of the vines up in the trees out at my friends ranch. Her husband is going to climb up there this weekend and pick them as they are nice and purple. The first question I have, and I'm sure I will have lots more, is will they be ok from the time they are picked on Sat. or Sun until the time I receive them and get them home on Monday evening. Is there anything you would suggest after picking as to how they should be stored to keep them from breaking down. I don't want my friend to go to any extra work to preserve them. What do you suggest until I get my hands on them.


Thank you Professor!!! Ramona


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## Waldo (Jun 13, 2007)

I would sure have him get them refrigrated as soon as he can. They don't need to be frozen but it would be better if he could and you could keep them frozen until you get home with them. If not, just keep them as cool as possible. Even putting them in zip loc bags in an ice chest would suffuice. I can't believe they are already ripeningdown there. We don't get them here for another month or so.


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## jobe05 (Jun 13, 2007)

Ramona, I agree with Waldo, Keep them cool. Although not the end of the world if they are not for a day or 2, they will degrade in heat, I see that a lot at local flea and farmers markets around here. 


Probably more importantly, is don't rush the grape (or cousin thereof). If they are not completely ripe, they don't make a good, rich flavorful wine, it will just be a sweet, blush colored water. Ripe is the key! Brix is a good way to find out ripeness, most Muscadines will be about 19 Brix, Or you can just study by taste. Taste a few that look different, like a deep puple, almost black one against one that is lighter in color, taste the difference. That will tell you not to pick the lighter colored ones right now, give them a week or two. One sign of them beginning to ripen is they will start to fall off the vine. If your friend doesn't see any on the ground yet, they arn't ready.


Now, when you do get these............... make sure your camera is charged.


Also can't wait to see the label you come up with for this........... Might be another one I'll have to steal. Or maybe I'll take my 36 pounds of Muscadines out of the freezer and make a batch with ya!*Edited by: jobe05 *


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## rgecaprock (Jun 14, 2007)

Waldo and Jobe,
Thank you for your advice. I'll have to let my friend know what you have said about the ripeness. I was wondering if they would be ripe enough. I should probably go and pick them my self but they are going to be out of town until the weekend when they plan to pick on Father's Day. They were starting to turn purple 2 weeks ago when I was out there so with all the sun and heat we have had they should be nice and ready. I'll keep you posted and I'll be asking lots of questions, I'm sure. Ramona


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## Waldo (Jun 14, 2007)

We will be here to answer every one of them Ramona


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