# Yeast comparisons



## wineview (Aug 13, 2021)

I make all my wine from fresh juice buckets. Last year I did Cab Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Sangiovese, Syrah, Zinfandel and used 71B.

This year I would like to make Alicante, Barbera, Grenache, Mixed Black, Old Zinfandel and was considering using RC212.
Will there be any noticeable difference between the two strains of yeast?

Thank you.
WV


----------



## sour_grapes (Aug 13, 2021)

I like to think that RC212 brings a bit more varietal character out. 

However, make sure you have sufficient nutrients in the bucket. RC212 does not respond well (H2S) to low nutrient levels.


----------



## wineview (Aug 13, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> I like to think that RC212 brings a bit more varietal character out.
> 
> However, make sure you have sufficient nutrients in the bucket. RC212 does not respond well (H2S) to low nutrient levels.



Is fermax good?


----------



## Rice_Guy (Aug 13, 2021)

71B is noted for metabolizing up to 33% of the malic acid (removed from the system, not converted to lactic) and producing nice esters (flavors).
With 212 you will probably have a lower pH and slightly higher TA, however malic is not the dominant acid in grapes so you might not be able to taste the difference. With a fruit like tart cherry where malic is dominant, you should notice the difference.



wineview said:


> was considering using RC212. . .
> Will there be any noticeable from 71B ?


----------



## Steve Wargo (Aug 14, 2021)

wineview said:


> I make all my wine from fresh juice buckets. Last year I did Cab Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Sangiovese, Syrah, Zinfandel and used 71B.
> 
> This year I would like to make Alicante, Barbera, Grenache, Mixed Black, Old Zinfandel, and was considering using RC212.
> Will there be any noticeable difference between the two strains of yeast?
> ...


 I've experimented with 71B, RC212, BM4X4, D47, D254, EC1118
This is just my opinion and suggestion for yeast selection, based on the wines I've made.

Pinot Noir --------- RC212
Sangiovese, Zinfandel, Barbera, Montepulciano -------BM4X4
Cabernet Sauvignon, Alicante, Petit Sirah, Syrah/z, Malbec, Merlot ----D254
Grenache, French Hybrids, Fruit wine -------71B
Chardonnay ------ D47 -note: fermentation low 60s

I've experimented and made several different wines using RC212. For me, RC212 wasn't the best choice to highlight the character of the bolder grape varieties. The wine tasted ok, it just didn't get around 3rd base to home plate. I do think RC212 is a perfect match for Pinot Noir and does a great job at bringing out the Noir's delicate aromas and flavors. JMO and my taste buds talking.

This opinion is subject to change as I experiment with other yeast and the fermented wines age and develop additional complexities.


----------



## Bmd2k1 (Feb 28, 2022)

wineview said:


> I make all my wine from fresh juice buckets. Last year I did Cab Sauvignon, Pinot Noir, Sangiovese, Syrah, Zinfandel and used 71B.
> 
> This year I would like to make Alicante, Barbera, Grenache, Mixed Black, Old Zinfandel and was considering using RC212.
> Will there be any noticeable difference between the two strains of yeast?
> ...


How'd did you like your Sangiovese done with 71B?


----------



## wineview (Feb 28, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> How'd did you like your Sangiovese done with 71B?



It is good. Nothing extraordinary just ok.


----------



## Nebbiolo020 (Mar 2, 2022)

For future reference for Zinfandel use RP-15 it is a far superior yeast for zin than RC-212 or etc.


----------



## idahorevbob (Mar 3, 2022)

While I have been a beer brewer for decades, I'm new to wine making. Only made three batches so far...all the same Cab Sauv kit. I used the EC-1118 that came with the kits but wonder what other yeasts the forum would recommend? 

I prefer 'big' Cab Sauv's and, while the kits I made are good, they aren't "big". Any thoughts about how to improve the kits? More oak?


----------



## She’sgonnakillme (Mar 3, 2022)

idahorevbob said:


> While I have been a beer brewer for decades, I'm new to wine making. Only made three batches so far...all the same Cab Sauv kit. I used the EC-1118 that came with the kits but wonder what other yeasts the forum would recommend?
> 
> I prefer 'big' Cab Sauv's and, while the kits I made are good, they aren't "big". Any thoughts about how to improve the kits? More oak?


I like BM4x4 and Avante for my Cab’s


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 3, 2022)

idahorevbob said:


> I prefer 'big' Cab Sauv's and, while the kits I made are good, they aren't "big". Any thoughts about how to improve the kits? More oak?


What brand/model kits did you make? That makes a huge difference.

There are many tweaks, among which are fermentation and aging oak. A kit that includes skin packs (like Finer Wine Kits Forte series) also makes a huge difference.


----------



## idahorevbob (Mar 5, 2022)

The kits I used where Master Vintner Winemakers Reserve Cab Sauvignon. My first attempt tasted good but a little sweet for a Cab Sauv. I'm pretty sure that I didn't get full fermentation because the room was too cold (low 60's). The next try with same kit and better temp control was better but still not 'big' like I was hoping for from a Cab Sauv. My third try was just bottled and tasted OK much like the second batch. I am looking for ways to improve on the basic kit. Again, all three versions have been acceptable. I'd say they are good daily dinner wines. I am just beginning the learning process about wine making so I'm here for ideas. Thanks for any help you more experienced wine makers provide!


----------



## idahorevbob (Mar 5, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> What brand/model kits did you make? That makes a huge difference.
> 
> There are many tweaks, among which are fermentation and aging oak. A kit that includes skin packs (like Finer Wine Kits Forte series) also makes a huge difference.



I just learned about the Finer Wines kits a couple days ago - watched their YouTube videos. I think one of their kits may be next on the schedule.


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 5, 2022)

@idahorevbob, I fermented last fall's kits in the low to mid-60's F, and they ferment out.

For the sweet Cab, what was the final SG?


----------



## idahorevbob (Mar 5, 2022)

I went from an OG of 1.084 down to 0.998. My second batch was 1.100 to 0.994. Third was 1.100 to 0.996


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 5, 2022)

idahorevbob said:


> I went from an OG of 1.084 down to 0.998.


Did you stabilize at that point, e.g., add the sorbate package? If the ferment wasn't 100% done, it may have been slow enough that the sorbate stopped it.

It's also possible the wine is very fruity -- aging with 1 oz of medium toast oak cubes for 3 months will reduce the fruitiness and built complexity with tannin.


----------



## idahorevbob (Mar 5, 2022)

Since I'm a beginner, I followed the directions verbatim. In this case, I added the kit Potassium Metabisulfite, kiesolsol, Chitosan, and Potassium Sorbate and stirred per the instuructions. The kit instructions said to do this on Day 20 but I left it until about another week (can anyone say "procrastination is my friend"). So, since my gravity was 0.998 maybe I should have waited longer. Not sure because the gravity hadn't dropped any for a week. I figured that fermentation was essentially done at that point. 

I have already ordered some Oak to try in the next batch. I ordered a medium spiral but now, after reading this forum a bit, wish I had ordered cubes. They give more flexibility in how much to add, etc.


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 5, 2022)

idahorevbob said:


> Since I'm a beginner, I followed the directions verbatim.


Excellent! Kit instructions are optimized for beginners who have no experienced help. You did the right thing.

For future reference -- if making a dry wine, the sorbate is unnecessary. Kit vendors include it as it helps prevent mini-volcanoes when beginners bottle a wine has not fully completed fermentation. Since vendors combine the sorbate/K-meta in one packet, get a bag of just K-meta. The dosage is 1/4 tsp per 5-6 gallons at each racking (post-fermentation) and every 3 months during bulk aging.



idahorevbob said:


> So, since my gravity was 0.998 maybe I should have waited longer. Not sure because the gravity hadn't dropped any for a week. I figured that fermentation was essentially done at that point.


Nope, you did fine as the SG was in the range and stable for a week. While SG is most often <= 0.996, higher final SG do happen. My FWK from last fall ended at 0.999 to 0.998.



idahorevbob said:


> I have already ordered some Oak to try in the next batch. I ordered a medium spiral but now, after reading this forum a bit, wish I had ordered cubes. They give more flexibility in how much to add, etc.


I prefer cubes for the configurability, but all types of oak adjuncts do the job.


----------



## Bmd2k1 (May 16, 2022)

Curious what folks fav yeast is for a Malbec?

Cheers!


----------

