# Apple Wine Question - Yeast on Must



## Gman (Sep 7, 2011)

I'm making wine from homegrown apples for the first time. SG is currently 1.100 and the apples have been finely chopped. Added all the usual ingredients - water to 5 gallons, Yeast Energizer, Pectin Enzyme, Kmeta, acid blend, etc. Waited 12 hours, added chemicals, waited another 12 hours (as per recipes) and checked temp; all was good. When it came time to add the yeast I first spread it on top of the floating apple must or pulp. Waited a day and then pushed down the pulp. On day three I couldn't really tell if things were happening so took an SG reading, still at 1.100. Thought perhaps I shouldn't have pushed the yeast down with the pulp so I added another pack of yeast on top. That was this evening.

Was this a good thing to do or not? Is the pulp / liquid at 1.100 too sweet? Some articles I read stated the yeast (Lalvin EC-1118) doesn't tolerate too much sweetness. Don't have a PH meter so can't tell you the acidity level.

Garry


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## PCharles (Sep 8, 2011)

*Apple Wine*

Hi Garry, 

I just started my own apple wine. Mine is a 3 gallone recipe of Jalapeno mine wine. The base is two gallons of apple cider, processed by our local apple orchard. I also added another gallon of water that was sweetened by 24 oz of honey, 6 very ripe bananas, and several cups of sugar. My initial SG was 1.085. I used the same yeast as you did, but I use a different procedure. I heated a blend about 100 cc of water with a good spoonful of frozen orange juice. To this I add about 1/8 cup of sugar, and a bit of yeast nutrient and yeast energizer. I let this sit for about 2 hours. The yeast go crazy multiplying. I add this to the must and mix it in. My 3 gallon batch took of in a matter of hours. 

It would be helpful to see the quantities/gallon of acid blend that you added. Could temperature be an issue? I see you live in Canada. Dehydrated yeast like to start off in a warm environment. I've recently read that they should be added to water heated to about 100 degrees F. As long as your mix isn't too cold, I figure it will take off. Consider adding a bit more of the same yeast using the process I described (heated water, OJ, yeast nutrient/energizer, sugar). 

Best of luck with your batch.
Paul


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## Gman (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks Paul,

I did read a few other recipes and posts where people were similarly preparing the yeast before adding to the must. Now that I already added a the yeast do you think by adding more in the manner you suggest will cause issues?

My temperature is sitting between 72 - 75 deg F so don't think thats the issue. Its been very warm here as of late in the 80s. Off the top of my head I don't remember the amount of acid blend; maybe 1.5 tsp. it think for 6 gallons.

Thanks for the feedback, Let me know what you think.
Garry


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## PCharles (Sep 8, 2011)

*Re Yeast*

Hi Garry,

It worries me that there may be another factor holding back the yearst. Howerver, I don't se any problem adding more of the same yeast using a yeast starter method. 

Are there still no indications that your yeast are starting?

Also, check the date on the yeast you are using. 

Best luck,

Paul


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## Julie (Sep 8, 2011)

Gman said:


> I'm making wine from homegrown apples for the first time. SG is currently 1.100 and the apples have been finely chopped. Added all the usual ingredients - water to 5 gallons, Yeast Energizer, Pectin Enzyme, Kmeta, acid blend, etc. Waited 12 hours, added chemicals, waited another 12 hours (as per recipes) and checked temp; all was good. When it came time to add the yeast I first spread it on top of the floating apple must or pulp. Waited a day and then pushed down the pulp. On day three I couldn't really tell if things were happening so took an SG reading, still at 1.100. Thought perhaps I shouldn't have pushed the yeast down with the pulp so I added another pack of yeast on top. That was this evening.
> 
> Was this a good thing to do or not? Is the pulp / liquid at 1.100 too sweet? Some articles I read stated the yeast (Lalvin EC-1118) doesn't tolerate too much sweetness. Don't have a PH meter so can't tell you the acidity level.
> 
> Garry



Hi Garry,

Give it some time. I have musts that didn't not start to ferment for 3 days. And since you added water you are going to need to do a flavor pack once it is done but we can get into that later.

Keep the must warm and lets give this a couple more days. Also, punch down the pulp a couple of times a day, it needs to breath to ferment.


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## Gman (Sep 8, 2011)

After adding the first pack of yeast on top of the must I pushed the pulp down after 24 hours. It was two days later that I didn't see activity and decided to sprinkle another pack of yeast (the same) on top. That's where I'm at now; the yeast is sitting on top of the pulp. 

Julie - Given your advice, was pushing the yeast down along with the pulp after the first application the right thing to do? You seem to suggest that pushing the yeast down soon after applying yeast is not a problem. This is where I lack the experience in fruit wines from scratch especially with the pulp / crushed apples. The yeast sits on top of the apples and although its moist its not introduce to liquid like when adding yeast to wine must. Hope this makes sense.
Garry.


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## Julie (Sep 8, 2011)

Gman said:


> After adding the first pack of yeast on top of the must I pushed the pulp down after 24 hours. It was two days later that I didn't see activity and decided to sprinkle another pack of yeast (the same) on top. That's where I'm at now; the yeast is sitting on top of the pulp.
> 
> Julie - Given your advice, was pushing the yeast down along with the pulp after the first application the right thing to do? You seem to suggest that pushing the yeast down soon after applying yeast is not a problem. This is where I lack the experience in fruit wines from scratch especially with the pulp / crushed apples. The yeast sits on top of the apples and although its moist its not introduce to liquid like when adding yeast to wine must. Hope this makes sense.
> Garry.



Yes, Gman, the yeast needs to be introduced to the sugar and if it is just sitting on top of the cap, it is not going to ferment. I use to just sprinkle my yeast on top and it would start but I now I stir it in, seems like it starts up a whole lot faster. Stir it a couple of times a day to introduce oxygen, if nothing happens within the next two days, then make a yeast starter. How long did you wait before adding the yeast after adding the sulphites?


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## Calvus (Sep 8, 2011)

I have sprinkled on packets of yeast, let sit for 15 min just to hydrate the yeast, and then stirred it in to let it multiply with good results. Then stir 3-4x a day after that and give it lots of O2/dissipate CO2


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## Gman (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys. It appears things are starting to work. I was away from home on Friday so couldn't get back to the forum to respond. 

Julie - I waited about 20 hours after sulphites to add yeast. I guess I was a little impatient after the first addition of yeast and at that time stirred it in. Things seem to have taken off now.

Thanks Calvus - your advise is basically what I did after Julie response confirmed stirring yeast in helps. Next time I may do the starter process before introducing to apples.

Garry


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## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

I like to leave my yeast on top until I see them start to bubble and multiply. They have plenty of moisture to absorb underneath and they get plenty of air that way too... sometimes it's just a matter of hours, sometimes overnight. As you see... ask a question and you'll find people that do it completely different... all with good results!

You could sweeten at the end after stabilizing with cider or apple juice to bring back the aroma and flavors.

Debbie


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## Julie (Sep 10, 2011)

docanddeb said:


> I like to leave my yeast on top until I see them start to bubble and multiply. They have plenty of moisture to absorb underneath and they get plenty of air that way too... sometimes it's just a matter of hours, sometimes overnight. As you see... ask a question and you'll find people that do it completely different... all with good results!
> 
> You could sweeten at the end after stabilizing with cider or apple juice to bring back the aroma and flavors.
> 
> Debbie



yes, that is true but if you are using fruit and the fruit is not in bag, the yeast just lays on top, it is not getting ozygen not is the yeast getting to eat at the sugar becasue the fruit has caused a barrier.


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## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

Plenty of sugar in the fruit and the water that covers the fruit after you stirred everything up. It's only for a few hours or overnight...

Debbie


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## Julie (Sep 10, 2011)

docanddeb said:


> Plenty of sugar in the fruit and the water that covers the fruit after you stirred everything up. It's only for a few hours or overnight...
> 
> Debbie



You now I am not trying to argue with you, I just want to make sure that new winemakers are going to make a wine that they like and get good advice so they come back again. The last thing I want is giving out advice that they do not understand or advice that was not clear then Winemakingtalk gets a bad rap.

Yes you are correct that if you punch down the fruit it would be moist enough to sprinkle the yeast on top but if a new winemaker does not understand this and just adds the yeast on top of the fruit that has not been punched down in 24 hours, that fruit will be on the dry side and the chances of that yeast starting a fermentation is now tougher than normal.

My goal is to try to make sure new members get a fast fermentation, I know what it was like when I fermented my first wine, that is when I was hooked.


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## Gman (Sep 14, 2011)

Julie - quick update to say that everything is brewing nicely. Racked last night as it hit 1.010 and everything is still bubbling steady. 

Garry


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## Shins (Sep 15, 2011)

For the first couple of days your yeast will be reproducing and multiplying. Adding another pack would only speed up this process and maximize desired bacteria. 

punching the pulp will also let in more oxygen and help speed up the yeast.

You dont have to do it but it will go faster.

One thing about making good wine is to be patient and not fiddle with it too much.

The more you fiddle the more chance of contaminants.

Once you have a supply made the wait will be easier


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## SpoiledRotten (Sep 15, 2011)

Shins said:


> Once you have a supply made the wait will be easier



This statement has never been closer to the truth. I'm finding it much easier to practice my patience after having about 7 cases of wine bottled that I can sip on while the other is working. While we're new (like me), we want to see that stuff in bottles!


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## Julie (Sep 15, 2011)

Gman said:


> Julie - quick update to say that everything is brewing nicely. Racked last night as it hit 1.010 and everything is still bubbling steady.
> 
> Garry



Garry,

Are you thinking of adding any spices to this? My last 3g batch that I made,I backsweeten with brown sugar and added a clove and 3 cinnamon sticks and a chunk of ginger. So far it is tasting pretty good.


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## Arne (Sep 15, 2011)

SpoiledRotten said:


> This statement has never been closer to the truth. I'm finding it much easier to practice my patience after having about 7 cases of wine bottled that I can sip on while the other is working. While we're new (like me), we want to see that stuff in bottles!



Actually Randy, I thought it was couldn't wait to get it in my belly, not my bottles. lol, Arne


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## Gman (Sep 16, 2011)

Julie - I added one stick of cinnamon right in the primary and a bag of golden raisins as I read in several recipes that Apple wine when using apples is difficult to get significant flavour. I was going to backsweeten with regular sugar and two bottles of organic apple juice which I can buy localy. The organic stuff has no preservatives. I never thought of brown sugar and cloves. I haven't tasted the must yet so perhaps when i rack again I'll taste to see if any of the cinnamon came through. I ended up with about 7 gallons as the apples provided more liquid than I thought. I guessing once things settle I'll end up with 6 gallons to bottle. How long did you leave in the bottle before trying? Many suggest leaving Apple wine for a year before it really gets drinkable. Thanks for the suggestions. 

Regarding the others that posted, I'm a firm believer in patiance especially on my reds. Thanks.
Garry


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## Julie (Sep 16, 2011)

Gman said:


> Julie - I added one stick of cinnamon right in the primary and a bag of golden raisins as I read in several recipes that Apple wine when using apples is difficult to get significant flavour. I was going to backsweeten with regular sugar and two bottles of organic apple juice which I can buy localy. The organic stuff has no preservatives. I never thought of brown sugar and cloves. I haven't tasted the must yet so perhaps when i rack again I'll taste to see if any of the cinnamon came through. I ended up with about 7 gallons as the apples provided more liquid than I thought. I guessing once things settle I'll end up with 6 gallons to bottle. How long did you leave in the bottle before trying? Many suggest leaving Apple wine for a year before it really gets drinkable. Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> Regarding the others that posted, I'm a firm believer in patiance especially on my reds. Thanks.
> Garry



One cinnamon might not be enough but you have plenty of time to add some more if you want, I left mine alone for a year, I would taste here and there but actually the cinnamon didn't come thru until then and I was real light on the cinnamon. The batch that I backsweeten with brown sugar is still sitting in the carboy I believe it is about 6 months old, I will be bottle cuz I need the carboys.


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