# Tannins and fruit wines



## chasemandingo (Jan 5, 2014)

Hey everybody,

I was wondering if anyone puts any of their fruit wines through a tannin regiment. What I mean is the addition of fermentation tannins, cellaring tannins, and finishing tannins. I do realize that not all country wines would benefit from these additions. However, I venture to say that some would. I just picked up 7 grams of tannin estate an 4 of tannin riche extra. The estate is a cellaring tannin and the riche extra is a finishing tannin. I might try them in a Old Orchard blueberry/pom or a Welch's concentrate blend I have been developing. Any advice from those with experience would be appreciated!


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## Julie (Jan 5, 2014)

I starting that with a couple of fruit wines I have, a blackberry and a black raspberry. I am interested in the blue/pom, let me know how that comes out.


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## chasemandingo (Jan 5, 2014)

Cool! I understand that one is suppose to allow four to six weeks for polymerization and settling --whatever that means lol- so I assume that one would want to wait until right before bottling to add any clarifying agents. I plan on adding some tannin estate until it is just past were I want the taste( since it will mellow with age). Then give it six weeks, rack and add some tannin riche extra. Give it another four weeks, rack and add superkleer. Rack when clear and bottle. I also am going to experiment with oaking during these tannin additions. I am under the impression that toasted oak looses much of its tannin content and hence only lends the flavors and aromas without the mouth feel and other perks of tannin. Is this correct?


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## Julie (Jan 5, 2014)

I have a blackberry that I oak with Hungarian Oak and it is almost 2 years old and I think it is starting to lose it's mouthfeel, this is why I started to think about the tannin regiment.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 5, 2014)

Julie, I always add a little bit of oak and a small amount of tannin to my fruit wines.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jan 5, 2014)

If you spend more on special tannins than what you spent on your main wine ingredients you might be overdoing it a little  We have been playing with some of them also at the start in berry and even cider, plus oaking. Oak and Welches were made for each other. WVMJ 



chasemandingo said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone puts any of their fruit wines through a tannin regiment. What I mean is the addition of fermentation tannins, cellaring tannins, and finishing tannins. I do realize that not all country wines would benefit from these additions. However, I venture to say that some would. I just picked up 7 grams of tannin estate an 4 of tannin riche extra. The estate is a cellaring tannin and the riche extra is a finishing tannin. I might try them in a Old Orchard blueberry/pom or a Welch's concentrate blend I have been developing. Any advice from those with experience would be appreciated!


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 5, 2014)

WVMountaineerJack,
It's all a matter of personal preference, some folks don't mind flabby wine, others like a good amount of body and mouthfeel.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jan 5, 2014)

I have never made a flabby wine so dont know how to make one, do you have a recipe Tom  WVMJ


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## cimbaliw (Jan 5, 2014)

I add 2tsp nonspecific, LD Carlson (Oak Powder), tannin to my 5 or 6 gallon apple wine as it adds not only a bit of structure but some great color as well. You can always split your wines and do side by side comparison.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 5, 2014)

WVMountaineerJack, it must be tough being perfect, one hell of a weight to carry with you.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jan 5, 2014)

We tasted some good English style cider this summer, one of their secrets was using bittersweets full of tannins. I found one of my crabapple trees will first make you think you ate a warhead, after you recover from that the astingency tries to dry your head, we of couse put them in our ciders this year and much better with the tannins. I think we also used some fermirouge for whites. This is a yeast trial year for us so wife wouldnt allow me to add any real oak to the main batches, that will have to wait for next year. WVMJ



cimbaliw said:


> I add 2tsp nonspecific, LD Carlson (Oak Powder), tannin to my 5 or 6 gallon apple wine as it adds not only a bit of structure but some great color as well. You can always split your wines and do side by side comparison.


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## Deezil (Jan 5, 2014)

chasemandingo said:


> Cool! I understand that one is suppose to allow four to six weeks for polymerization and settling --whatever that means lol- so I assume that one would want to wait until right before bottling to add any clarifying agents. I plan on adding some tannin estate until it is just past were I want the taste( since it will mellow with age). Then give it six weeks, rack and add some tannin riche extra. Give it another four weeks, rack and add superkleer. Rack when clear and bottle. I also am going to experiment with oaking during these tannin additions. I am under the impression that toasted oak looses much of its tannin content and hence only lends the flavors and aromas without the mouth feel and other perks of tannin. Is this correct?



polymerization - basically, in table talk, would mean the act of the tannins binding with other chemical compounds within the wine

settling - once these chains of smaller compounds have bound up to enough others, they become too heavy and settle to the bottom as sediment - this is not the part of the addition that you want to keep in your bottles.

You'll want to taste the wine between each addition of tannins, and gauge the impact it has on the wine (this takes some practice, as the impacts themselves change with time, and also change how the wine changes with time). 

I would hold off on the additional oak until after you've added the tannins, because it will add additional tannins on top of the earlier additions. Spacing these additions out also helps to create a sense of layers of flavors, when actually tasting and smelling the wine - some will come across at the beginning, some mid-way and some will affect the finish of the wine. Doing too many tweaks at once, will leave you unsure of which tweak gave what effect. 

Hope that makes sense..


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## cimbaliw (Jan 5, 2014)

Me likey that idea WVMJ. Lots of crab trees 'round these parts.

BC


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## jensmith (Jan 8, 2014)

I add tannins to some of my fruit wines. That cheep powdered stuff. I'm not a big fan of a strong tannin wine. However a little tannin really helps many wines. Apple and rubarb always get tannin. Cranberry sometimes does. The wild concord grape wine had such a sharp bite to it that I added tannin to mellow it out. My lhbs fella said I was nuts to add tannin to it. But a small sample was greatly improved so I dosed the whole batch. 
Tannins both mellow sharp wines and add compexity to dull wines. Kinnda evens out flavors. If you make a little extra for a top off wine, add tannin to that small amount and see what it does. You can always blend it with the big batch if you don't like it.


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## chasemandingo (Jan 8, 2014)

Am going to add a bit to a batch of apple ginger i got going right now. Will see how I like it. Will also test out on a strong (16%) Welch's wine recipe I've been developing as well as a blueberry from frozen berries. Based on the results I will decide how to proceed with other wines.


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