# help, help..Yeast Starter help -



## Sashie (Sep 26, 2012)

I just came across a thread that mentioned yeast hulls (I have) and goferm protect (don't have). I am about to start hydrating the yeast and thought I knew what to do and now I'm so confused. The wine is in the basement and is ready for yeast and I'm second guessing myself.

I have white grapes. The plan was to add yeast nutrient to the must and then add the yeast starter. I don't even know if what I'm doing would be considered a yeast starter (hot water with yeast - wait 15 minutes and add some wine juice - wait 15 minutes and pitch)

What about yeast hulls - when do I add that?

Should I keep my must in the refrigerator until I decide what to do?


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## Arne (Sep 26, 2012)

Keep your water temp. about 100 degrees. Much higher than that and you can kill off your yeast. I usually throw a bit of water in, a bit of must in, a little sugar, then add the yeast. WHen it gets going good, your must should already be ready, just pour the starter in. It should take off within 24 hrs. or so. The starter will probably take a few hours to get going like you want it. This way you also know your yeast is good before pitching it in and waiting. If it won't start as a starter, make another starter with a different pack of yeast. Oh yeah, and about the time you make the second starter, the first one will take off too. If it is the same kind of yeast, you can pitch both starters in. Won't hurt a thing. Arne.


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## Sashie (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks for your reply...

What I did was add yeast nutrient to the must. In the meantime I hydrated the yeast with water, waited 15 minutes, stirred it and added it to the must. The yeast however was not bubbling or doing anything although it looked like there were 2 bubbles in the yeast itself if that makes any sense. 

How do you get water up to 100? Do you boil or use tap water? 

You don't use yeast starter, yeast hull etc etc?


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## PCharles (Sep 27, 2012)

Sashie, 

I made my yeast starter for 20 gallons of crushed grapes Tuesday. It worked grate, firing up the batch within 12 hours. I heat the water on the stove. I have a thermometer and make sure that the temp is below 110, but above 100. I sprinkle the yeast on the surface and leave it for about 8 minutes. I don't stir it, but let it spread on the surface. The yeast will mostly get a mucoid look to it. Don't use a huge amount of water, only a cup per yeast packet. At this point I add a bit of must or sugar. I needed to add a little sugar to my wine to bring up the Brix, so Tuesday I just added a bit of dissolved sugar. I let this sit for another 10 minutes and the yeast was starting to really come to life. It starts to look like whipped cream floating on coffee (the color is darker though). This is when I added it to the must. I usually just add about 1/4 cup of must to 1 cup of water instead of the sugar I added here. What you don't want to do is let the yeast go for greater than 15 minutes without some sort of food (sugar). 

Good luck with your wine project.


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

I only have 3 gallons. The package directions called for 2 ounces of water. I used tap water and added yeast.

this morning I see what you have described in my must- "whipped cream floating" but I do not hear anything nor is there any movement. But it hasn't been 24 hrs. yet. Do you think I'm on the right track?


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

When I looked now, I see no activity. The foam is gone and everything settled. anyone?


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## robie (Sep 27, 2012)

Sashie,
When you make a yeast starter, you should see lots of activity in the actual starter before you stir it into the bucket of must. Sounds to me like your yeast was not viable anymore.

To make a starter:
There are many ways to make a starter, this just happens to be my way -
Add the yeast to the water when the water is about 104F. Let it set for about two minutes, then lightly stir in the yeast, which are still floating on the surface of the water. Let it set a few more minutes then look straight down into the starter. It may begin slowly, but soon it will be as though from outer space you are looking down on a huge fireworks display below. It is though small pinhole spots erupt outwardly but just below the surface of the liquid. You will know them when you see them.

One good reason to make such a starter is to confirm that your yeast are viable. If you don't see what I described, you will know you need to acquire some more yeast and you won't waste your time waiting up to 72 hours for fermentation to never start.

Once you start seeing those small explosions, add a tablespoon of your must to it. It soon should start foaming. In about 2 or 3 minutes, add another two tablespoons of must. Repeat this step about 3 or 5 more times. By now you should see lots of activity.

For any yeast starter chemical like Go-Ferm, follow the directions as to when it should be added to the starter. Some have you add it before adding the yeast to the water; some later. Same if you use a nutrient; add it per the directions.

Let the temperature of the starter slowly drop to within a few degrees of the bucket of must, so adding it won't cause the yeast to go into shock. At that time, pour the starter into the must and lightly stir it in. The bucket of must (now legally called wine) should start fizzing within 8 to 12 hours.


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

Great thanks, that helps a lot. It seems I need to start another yeast batch.


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

One question sorry - how much water for yeast packet? It says on the yeast envelope 2 ounces of water per packet but the previous poster said one cup per packet. thanks very much


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## robie (Sep 27, 2012)

Sashie said:


> One question sorry - how much water for yeast packet? It says on the yeast envelope 2 ounces of water per packet but the previous poster said one cup per packet. thanks very much



You want to use enough water to give the yeast some room to move. Two ounces will work, but I would lean more toward a full cup. The amount of water is not terribly critical as long as the resulting starter is a liquid and not a paste. Anywhere between those two amounts is totally OK. The must is mostly water anyway. 

Again, I vote for a full cup. By the time you add the must to it in stages, you will have much more than when you started.


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

thanks so much...I'm going to give it another try now.


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## robie (Sep 27, 2012)

You never said what grape you are fermenting and what yeast strain you are using. At what temperature are you intending to ferment?


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

it is white wine (blend) and I'm using Lalvin v1116. the must is in a room temperature around 65 and I plan a cool ferment when it is in full fermentation mode.


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## robie (Sep 27, 2012)

Sashie said:


> it is white wine (blend) and I'm using Lalvin v1116. the must is in a room temperature around 65 and I plan a cool ferment when it is in full fermentation mode.



If your starter really goes to town, great. 

I don't offhand know the temperature range of V1116.

It might not be something you can do this time, but next time you want to do a cool fermentation, let the must get up to about 70F to 75F to add the yeast. Let it set at that temperature until the fizzing starts, then lower the temperature to where you want it to ferment. 

Understand that once fermentation starts, the fermentation itself is going to heat up your wine, so keeping it at 65 will be something you may have to work at achieving. (I like to use D47 yeast and keep the temp down below 62F all during fermentation... not easy for me to do.) Set the bucket in a cold tub of water is a good thing to try.


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

I saw the fireworks display (perfectly described), I added a tablespoon of my must, did not see much foam at the time, but I added another 2 tablespoons and waited 2-3 minutes. I repeated this last part 5 times and although I see lots of foam and a few tiny bubbles now- I don't think this is "lots of activity" or am I wrong? Towards the end I thought maybe the yeast is getting too cold so I put it in a warm bath. 

Should I stir? add sugar?


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## robie (Sep 27, 2012)

Sashie said:


> I saw the fireworks display (perfectly described), I added a tablespoon of my must, did not see much foam at the time, but I added another 2 tablespoons and waited 2-3 minutes. I repeated this last part 5 times and although I see lots of foam and a few tiny bubbles now- I don't think this is "lots of activity" or am I wrong? Towards the end I thought maybe the yeast is getting too cold so I put it in a warm bath.
> 
> Should I stir? add sugar?



It sounds perfect to me! The idea that it is foaming tells you it is working. Let it work for another 15 minutes or so. Don't ever stir it vigorously. I will add the juice and let it set for thirty seconds or so, then gently stir only a couple of rounds.

Really, all this is not super critical or rocket science. It is all very forgiving.

Just for more ideas and none of these are a big deal -
Instead of starting soon with my must, I like to use condensed white grape juice, which has been properly diluted for drinking. I use it for the first couple of table spoons; then I switch to my must. The grape juice is always very sweet. You certainly can use red grape juice for reds, but I just punt and always use white.

For temperature control, I put the starter container in a larger pan of warm water and let the water cool slowly.


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

I very much appreciate your help. I still have the yeast working in the kitchen and the foam is getting bigger but in the meantime decided to see what was going on with my must. Although there is no activity now (I had big foam this morning) I now hear a hissing. Does that mean it is fermenting? 

and this is suppose to be fun?


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## robie (Sep 27, 2012)

Sashie said:


> I very much appreciate your help. I still have the yeast working in the kitchen and the foam is getting bigger but in the meantime decided to see what was going on with my must. Although there is no activity now (I had big foam this morning) I now hear a hissing. Does that mean it is fermenting?
> 
> and this is suppose to be fun?



Ha! Welcome to all the "fun"!!!

Go ahead and add your fresh yeast started.

What you are experiencing is pretty common for a cold fermentation or should I say, "cool fermentation", in your case at 65F. That's why it is good to get everything started as 70F to 75F, then let the temperature back off. I have a brew belt to warm the must up to most any temperature, then I turn it off and let the yeast work.

Another hint - Before you stir the yeast starter into your bucket, give the bucket a big, hard stir, top to bottom, to make sure it has plenty of oxygen to get started. Then add your yeast starter.


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## Sashie (Sep 27, 2012)

Actually the temp in the basement (boiler room) is 72. So I gave the bucket a big stir, added the starter and let's see what happens...

to be continued

thanks so much for your help Robie
s


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## Sashie (Sep 30, 2012)

I just tested my wine for SG and it's at 1.000. how is that possible? so fast? I planned on moving it outside tomorrow for a slow fermentation but decided to move it now. It started at 1.090.


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