# getting fresh juice for the first time need suggestions



## olusteebus (May 6, 2015)

Tomorrow, I am getting up at 5 and driving to atlanta to get 6 gallons of merlot and 6 of sauvignon blanc. Hate to admit it but I am a little nervous. 

anyone have a good checklist/process/recipe. 

I guess I will keep it cool for the 3 hour drive home and let it warm overnight in my cellar. Apply kmeta and probably pitch yeast Friday.


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## Angelina (May 6, 2015)

If my memory serves me right, I believe k-meta has already been added to your pail so it would help it from prematurely starting fermentation. I'm sure someone will come along here shortly and confirm or correct me.

Make sure you have a good strain of yeast and nutrients. I picked up my first pails not long ago and asked lots of questions... it helped my nervousness and confidence to be as educated as could about the product.


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## Boatboy24 (May 6, 2015)

Check with your supplier on the sulfite. Like Angelina mentioned, it may be in there already. My supplier is two hours away and those buckets are still nice and cold when I get home. You should be fine.

Your plan sounds fine. Let it warm up overnight, then pitch. What yeasts are you using?


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## olusteebus (May 7, 2015)

The kmeta is supplied. one ounce. The yeast supplied is ec 1118. I could possibly get something else.

I have fermaid K and go ferm that I plan on using. 

should I add tannin to the merlot. I have some riche.


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## Boatboy24 (May 7, 2015)

One ounce per six gallons?


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## Floandgary (May 7, 2015)

I'd be asking your supplier what, if anything, has been done to their juice buckets as far as pre-inoculations. K-meta won't prevent fermentation from starting but the cold temperature will and unless you have a heater on them it is unlikely that they would warm up enough in 3 hrs. Wrap them in blankets to insulate for the trip. Also try to avoid jostling and stirring up the must


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## JohnT (May 7, 2015)

I would dose the juice with k-meta 24 hours before pitching yeast. I would also add the tannin as bucket juice has limited maceration and could use it.


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## ceeaton (May 7, 2015)

JohnT said:


> I would dose the juice with k-meta 24 hours before pitching yeast. I would also add the tannin as bucket juice has limited maceration and could use it.



If I was going to put the Merlot through MLF, I wouldn't add Kmeta, would I? I'm planning to use VP41, which they advertise as able to handle free sulfites up to 60 ppm, I think.


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## Boatboy24 (May 7, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> If I was going to put the Merlot through MLF, I wouldn't add Kmeta, would I? I'm planning to use VP41, which they advertise as able to handle free sulfites up to 60 ppm, I think.



By the time you're ready to pitch the VP41, that dose of sulfite has long since blown off. Active fermentation, and a large, open vessel will take care of that very quickly.


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## olusteebus (May 7, 2015)

I have the juice home now and it will warm for a day. I plan on pitching yeast tomorrow afternoon. Because my cellar is currently 65 degrees and will be cooler at night, I am going to keep both the sauvignon blanc and merlot in a heated bath to keep them at about 73 or 74 degrees. I would like to do the blanc at a lower temp but I am afraid it will drop well down in the sixties and will hinder ferment. 

I plan on adding 1/4 tsp of Kmeta before pitching yeast. 

Because life has really gotten in the way of making this wine, I am going to have to leave it after fermenting 9 days. My plans are to ferment for 8 days and rack both into carboys. I will be away from it for another two weeks. 

couple of real problems here in that I will not be able to stabilize after ferment is over. Also, I am thinking about putting the merlot thru MLF and will not be able to inoculate during the two week absence. I suppose I could inoculate for mlf before alcohol ferment is complete. 

I plan of using accuvin strips to test if malic is complete. 

Also, I will not be able to stabilize the blanc as soon as ferment is over. Do I risk the Blanc going into MLF? If it is in a carboy, with the kmeta will it be ok. 

AS you can see, I don't know anything about wine making with fresh juice because I have never paid any attention to the discussions because I did not think I would ever get any fresh juice. Now that I can get it twice a year, I gotta learn with your help.

What can I do given these circumstances.

Thanks.


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## Boatboy24 (May 7, 2015)

Rack to secondary as planned. If you're keeping temps up, you should be approaching, or below 1.010 after 8 days and should feel reasonably comfortable with a topped up carboy at this point. Let the Sauvignon Blanc go - it'll be just fine in secondary for two weeks - especially if its topped up. AFter you've racked the merlot, pitch your VP41, go away for two weeks and don't worry about it. Ideally, you'd want to stir once a week, but I've been fine missing a stirring or two (or more). Your MLF will take at least a few weeks, so you can't stabilize anyway. Keep the Sauv Blanc away from the Merlot and you shouldn't have to worry about MLF. Check SG and stabilize when you return.


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## olusteebus (May 7, 2015)

my sauvignon blanc has a ph of 3.41 and ta of 6.25. Shouldn't I leave it alone or should add acid. I calculate 1.2 grams of blend. by the way, I am new to metric stuff. It just does not seem to be enough to worry about right now.

My merlot has a ph of 3.51 and a ta of 7.25. should I adjust.


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## Boatboy24 (May 7, 2015)

I wouldn't adjust either one. 

TA on the Merlot is at the top of the desired range, but it is in the range. (pH is spot on) The MLF will smooth it out. The SB might be a tad low on acid, but it's close. Unless your taste buds tell you differently, test and taste later, then adjust if needed.


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## ceeaton (May 7, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> By the time you're ready to pitch the VP41, that dose of sulfite has long since blown off. Active fermentation, and a large, open vessel will take care of that very quickly.



So when I get my crushed grapes, add kmeta, eventually add to juice once I get that home and opened up, add Lallzyme EX-V after 12 hours, wait 12 more hours, pitch yeast (using Go Ferm and add FT Rouge to must also). First dose (1/2) of Fermaid O when fermentation gets going and the other 1/2 at 1/3 sugar depletion. Then just watch it ferment. Right?

If I have Opti Red, when do I throw that in? I'm getting too many additives...they are preserving my brain for something other than thought, I think.


*Edit: Found this in a different thread Paul pointed to by Deezil:* (I've got my hands in way too many threads)

"The absolute best time to add Opti-Red or Booster Rouge is in the must. 

Opti-Red and Booster Rouge have a high natural content of reactive yeast polysaccharides. These polysaccharides will complex with anthocyanins and tannins as soon as they are released from the skin and result in a wine with fuller structure and enhanced mouthfeel. 

If you wait to make the Opti-Red or Booster Rouge addition until mid-fermentation, there are fewer polyphenols available to complex with the polysaccharides in Opti-Red or Booster Rouge.
Opti-Red and Booster Rouge additions, even in a finished wine, will still make a positive contribution but the effect will not be as dramatic."


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## olusteebus (May 8, 2015)

My sg is 1.085, should I bump it up to 1.10 or so


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## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2015)

olusteebus said:


> My sg is 1.085, should I bump it up to 1.10 or so



Is that on the Sauv Blanc? If you ferment down to 0.996, you'll be just shy of 12%. Right about where I'd think you'd want to be for a white wine.


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## JohnT (May 8, 2015)

Ceeaton, 

You mention crushed grapes. Does this mean that you plan to have grapes crushed at the source and will have a must of juice and skins? 

If that is the case, you can get color extraction by simple fermenting on the skins. If not, and you are going with a bucket juice, then opti-red is a good idea.


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## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> So when I get my crushed grapes, add kmeta, eventually add to juice once I get that home and opened up, add Lallzyme EX-V after 12 hours, wait 12 more hours, pitch yeast (using Go Ferm and add FT Rouge to must also). First dose (1/2) of Fermaid O when fermentation gets going and the other 1/2 at 1/3 sugar depletion. Then just watch it ferment. Right?
> 
> If I have Opti Red, when do I throw that in? I'm getting too many additives...they are preserving my brain for something other than thought, I think.
> 
> ...



I think you have a plan. Sulfite the grapes and juice together, when you mix them. The grapes should be fine in the car for a few hours after being crushed. They'll still be good and cold when you get home. 

Are you only doing 1 lug? If so, just destem and crush by hand. Not worth paying $25, IMHO.


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## ceeaton (May 8, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> I think you have a plan. Sulfite the grapes and juice together, when you mix them. The grapes should be fine in the car for a few hours after being crushed. They'll still be good and cold when you get home.
> 
> Are you only doing 1 lug? If so, just destem and crush by hand. Not worth paying $25, IMHO.



Jim, I've been adding to my order (remember, you are the evil enabler). I now am making a Pinot Grigio bucket for my wife, and a Merlot bucket with a lug each of Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon and Malbec. So since it was 3 lugs and I have to attend an Emmaus Teaming reunion that afternoon/evening, I'm gonna pay for Harford to crush and be done with it. Money is no object, right?


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## ceeaton (May 8, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Ceeaton,
> 
> You mention crushed grapes. Does this mean that you plan to have grapes crushed at the source and will have a must of juice and skins?
> 
> If that is the case, you can get color extraction by simple fermenting on the skins. If not, and you are going with a bucket juice, then opti-red is a good idea.



John, sounds like I can leave the opti-red out of the mix since I am mixing the grapes and bucket and either splitting between two fermenters or getting a 20 gallon brute (the brute is sounding better and better, and money is never an object with four kids). I was planning on added Lallzyme EX-V to the crushed grapes 12 or so hours after the kmeta and 12 or so hours before adding the yeast.


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## ceeaton (May 9, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> I think you have a plan. Sulfite the grapes and juice together, when you mix them. The grapes should be fine in the car for a few hours after being crushed. They'll still be good and cold when you get home.
> 
> Are you only doing 1 lug? If so, just destem and crush by hand. Not worth paying $25, IMHO.



FYI, grapes were at 48*F when we got home and we took the long way (wife needs to work on navigation) as well as stopping for lunch in Hanover. About 3 hrs in a warm car. Juice is still below 40*F.

Lots of stems and leaves, assuming they only crush and not destem for the $25. Do I need to get most of those out when I bag them up in the strainer bags?

Boy those grapes are sweeter than I anticipated, would make a nice snack tonight.

Thanks,


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## ceeaton (May 9, 2015)

Temps up into the low 60's. Kmeta added to the Pinot Grigio bucket, will pitch yeast tomorrow after lunch. pH 3.07 SG 1.092. Had Kmeta'd the Merlot & grapes earlier in the day, grapes added to strainer bags w/most stems/leaves removed. pH 3.48 SG 1.096. Will add Lallzyme tomorrow a.m., plan on pitching yeast later that evening. Will do TA's tomorrow a.m., too tired, been up since 4:30 am.


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## heatherd (May 10, 2015)

olusteebus said:


> I have the juice home now and it will warm for a day. I plan on pitching yeast tomorrow afternoon. Because my cellar is currently 65 degrees and will be cooler at night, I am going to keep both the sauvignon blanc and merlot in a heated bath to keep them at about 73 or 74 degrees. I would like to do the blanc at a lower temp but I am afraid it will drop well down in the sixties and will hinder ferment.
> 
> I plan on adding 1/4 tsp of Kmeta before pitching yeast.
> 
> ...




You can pitch the MLB at the same time as your yeast. If you do that way, don't add any kmeta at the beginning. That will streamline the process. If doing MLF, I would also wait to do acid adjustments until it's done.


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## olusteebus (May 10, 2015)

I was planning on using some merlot skins that I got from a kit but the bucket is so full that it would overflow. I considered putting some in another ferment bucket but I said to hell with it. I will be adding tannin riche later anyhow.

I need to add some oak soon I guess.


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