# Need advice on selecting varietal to plant



## peterseng (Dec 7, 2018)

This fall I made wine from fresh grapes for the first time, and I fell in love! I have decided that I want to plant some vines in my yard so I can make wine one day from grapes I raised with my own hands. I don't have room for more than a dozen or so, and I am having some trouble deciding what to plant. I would love to plant two varietals (one for red wine, one for white). I researched growing requirements of several varieties that I was considering, as well as climate statistics in my area in an effort to narrow the field, and I am now concerned that I may not be able to grow wine grapes at all. 

I live in Jim Thorpe, PA, and the statistics I've found for my neighborhood are as follows:
Growing Degree Days average near 2300-2400 (through 10/31)
Average Annual Rainfall approx 50 inches (US average is 39)
Average Annual sunny days = 196 (US average is 205)

So it seems that my neighborhood is rather wet, less sunny than average and has a relatively short growing season. As a result, I plan to do what I can for drainage with gutters and/or trenches (too small a plot for drain tiles - and i'm not sure I want to invest that much $ to plant 10 vines). I also realize I will probably do better with a variety that ripens more quickly, as my growing season is less than ideal. I also know that there are successful vineyards in areas with shorter growing seasons, so I am certain that there must be SOME variety of grape from which I can make a decent wine. I could use some suggestions/advice from some of the more experienced folks here in deciding what factors are most important in selecting the kind of grape vine to plant.
Thanks in advance!


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## sour_grapes (Dec 7, 2018)

Some common advice is to check with local vineyards. I just checked out a couple near you, viz., Big Creek and Blue Lizard
http://bigcreekvineyard.com/dryred.html
https://www.bluelizardwinery.com/index.php?id=9

They both offer Chambourcin (a hybrid variety) and Pinot Noir; Big Creek uses some other hybrids, too (Marechal Foch, Frontenac, Regent). You should give them a call. In fact, Blue Lizard has a "Vine Club" where you can get actual experience in the vineyard:
https://www.bluelizardwinery.com/index.php?id=3


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## peterseng (Dec 7, 2018)

Vine club, eh? That sounds worth checking out! I will also check some of the climate data for the locations of those two vineyards to see how much they vary from my location. 

One factor I've found in my climate research is that in PA there are apparently "micro-climates" that vary quite a bit even within a few miles of each other. There are several vineyards growing Chambourcin quite successfully (which made me think I might have success with that vine) only about 30 miles from me. When I saw that my GDD was so low (a site I researched recommended a minimum of 3000 GDD to mature Chambourcin) I looked at these vineyards and their area had a 15 year average GDD of just under the 3000 goal. I hadn't expected such a dramatic climate difference within such a short distance! I also wonder if I may also be putting too much stock in such data...


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## ibglowin (Dec 7, 2018)

You left off one of the biggest factors in deciding what to grow in your neck of the woods. That being average low temps during the Winter months. I would go with a Cold Hardy Hybrid. There are some fantastic ones out today that are rivaling Vinifera (both red and white). Poke around on the Double A Vineyard website as they carry just about all of them. You do need to place an order within the next month or so or many of them will already be sold out for next Spring.


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## peterseng (Dec 7, 2018)

Regarding average low temps, my area has an average low in January of 18 degrees. What information I am lacking is just how often it gets cold enough to damage the vines I am considering. I am familiar with the Double A website, and have already spent a decent amount of time browsing the many varieties they have available - but I have only found a handful that seem like they would be a good match for my particular "micro-climate" and have not yet tasted any wines made with them, so I am hesitant to plant them at this point. I will definitely try to order soon, though, if they will be selling out soon, as you say. Thanks for the heads up on that. Mike!


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## sour_grapes (Dec 7, 2018)

peterseng said:


> Vine club, eh? That sounds worth checking out! I will also check some of the climate data for the locations of those two vineyards to see how much they vary from my location.
> 
> One factor I've found in my climate research is that in PA there are apparently "micro-climates" that vary quite a bit even within a few miles of each other. There are several vineyards growing Chambourcin quite successfully (which made me think I might have success with that vine) only about 30 miles from me. When I saw that my GDD was so low (a site I researched recommended a minimum of 3000 GDD to mature Chambourcin) I looked at these vineyards and their area had a 15 year average GDD of just under the 3000 goal. I hadn't expected such a dramatic climate difference within such a short distance! I also wonder if I may also be putting too much stock in such data...



Wow, that is a shockingly big difference. I fully admit I only looked on the map as the crow flies!


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## GreginND (Dec 7, 2018)

I would recommend Crimson Pearl. It is an amazingly complex grape and will even grow in North Dakota.


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## peterseng (Dec 7, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> Wow, that is a shockingly big difference. I fully admit I only looked on the map as the crow flies!


I was shocked too. On the plus side, your advice gave me the idea of looking at climate data in the area of some of the local vineyards and then see what they are producing. So far one of the two you mentioned (Big Creek) has climate conditions that are pretty similar to my own (they are only about 15 miles away) and they have a tasting room that is literally walking distance from my house, so I think I may know where my family can find me tomorrow afternoon


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## peterseng (Dec 7, 2018)

GreginND said:


> I would recommend Crimson Pearl. It is an amazingly complex grape and will even grow in North Dakota.


Thanks for the suggestion! I've never heard of that particular grape so I will definitely check it out. Have you cultivated and made wine with those?


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## Newine (Dec 8, 2018)

Itasca for a white, pretty new release, I am adding 25 to my little vineyard next year. Good numbers reported.


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## tom6922 (Dec 8, 2018)

I live in southeast Michigan and have been growing reds (Frontenac, Marquette, Noiret, Cab Franc) and whites (Seyval, Lacrescent, Traminette). Marquette has a number of great advantages over the other reds: very fruitful and much earlier ripening (so less bird and bee damage, less disease damage, less tending, less spraying, etc). Among the whites I like Lacrescent, which ripens several weeks later than Marquette but earlier than the other whites. But if you have limited space, I would go with just one varietal. Each varietal adds complexity and extra work, you want this this to be enjoyable, not a job.


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## BigH (Dec 8, 2018)

peterseng said:


> I live in Jim Thorpe, PA, and the statistics I've found for my neighborhood are as follows:
> Growing Degree Days average near 2300-2400 (through 10/31)
> Average Annual Rainfall approx 50 inches (US average is 39)
> Average Annual sunny days = 196 (US average is 205)



According to what I found, your last spring frost is around May 26, and your first fall frost is around Oct 6. That is a pretty brief growing season. The GDD tool that I use shows that you normally accumulate about 2300 GDD by the middle of September. This year you had 2500 by then. The USDA map looks like it has you in zone 6B, -5 to -10 F.

My advice is to look for an early ripening white. I harvest my Brianna and Edelwiess around 18 and 15 brix when they have gotten 2100-2300 GDD of sun, and chaptalize them to the desired sugar level. They are more winter hardy then you probably need. That doesn't hurt anything, but it does allow you to research other varieties. Definitely look for early ripening though.

For a red, I think Greg's suggestion of Crimson Pearl should be the first variety you look at. Marquette might be another one to consider. It ripens earlier than most other varieties, but it does need a little sun to get the acids down. Again, both of those are more winter hardy than you probably need. Getting fruit ripened seems like it will be a bigger concern for you. With that in mind, I would personally avoid these varieties: Petite Pearl, Verona, and anything with Frontenac in the name. 

Good luck
H


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## StevenD55 (Dec 8, 2018)

FWIW Here in Colorado we are likely drier in the summer. So mildew is rare. But as for cold hardiness, I haven’t had many problems with Cold weather varieties even thru the -10 to -20 stretches. I have Frontenac, Marquette, Valiant, Aurore and Noiret. A few I have are even Zone 6. My neighbors have Foch, Chardonnel and Limberger that do well of the varieties I think are worthwhile anyway. 

The biggest problem with the extreme cold-hardy grapes (Valiant and even Marquette) is that they try to bud too early. Then the frost gets them. The varieties that bud just a little later seem to have a better chance of working through Spring freezes.


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## peterseng (Dec 10, 2018)

tom6922 said:


> I live in southeast Michigan and have been growing reds (Frontenac, Marquette, Noiret, Cab Franc) and whites (Seyval, Lacrescent, Traminette). Marquette has a number of great advantages over the other reds: very fruitful and much earlier ripening (so less bird and bee damage, less disease damage, less tending, less spraying, etc). Among the whites I like Lacrescent, which ripens several weeks later than Marquette but earlier than the other whites. But if you have limited space, I would go with just one varietal. Each varietal adds complexity and extra work, you want this this to be enjoyable, not a job.


Thanks for the suggestions! I took a look at Marquette and it seems like a good match. My biggest concern is that (from what I've read) the acidity is rather high. I don't have much experience managing acidity at that level. Do you have any suggestions for addressing that?


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## peterseng (Dec 10, 2018)

BigH said:


> According to what I found, your last spring frost is around May 26, and your first fall frost is around Oct 6. That is a pretty brief growing season. The GDD tool that I use shows that you normally accumulate about 2300 GDD by the middle of September. This year you had 2500 by then. The USDA map looks like it has you in zone 6B, -5 to -10 F.
> 
> My advice is to look for an early ripening white. I harvest my Brianna and Edelwiess around 18 and 15 brix when they have gotten 2100-2300 GDD of sun, and chaptalize them to the desired sugar level. They are more winter hardy then you probably need. That doesn't hurt anything, but it does allow you to research other varieties. Definitely look for early ripening though.
> 
> ...


I agree that getting the fruit ripened will definitely be a bigger concern than hardiness (which is not to say that is NOT a concern, lol). I will definitely be considering both Marquette and Crimson Pearl. If I end up deciding on just one grape to plant, I do believe that I would prefer to go with a red wine grape, as I prefer to drink red wine. Not much point in me planting something I won't want to drink, lol!


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## peterseng (Dec 10, 2018)

Thanks for the warning about early budding, Steve. That is one aspect I hadn't thought to consider, but an important one!


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## Newine (Dec 10, 2018)

peterseng said:


> Thanks for the warning about early budding, Steve. That is one aspect I hadn't thought to consider, but an important one!


Petite Pearl And Crimson Pearl were bred by Tom Plocher to hold dormancy and delay bud break. He is out of Minnesota. Worth a Google. These grow very far north and have better acid, tannins and brix than most hybrids.


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## StevenD55 (Dec 10, 2018)

Newine said:


> Petite Pearl And Crimson Pearl were bred by Tom Plocher to hold dormancy and delay bud break. He is out of Minnesota. Worth a Google. These grow very far north and have better acid, tannins and brix than most hybrids.



Are crimson pearl clusters as small as petit pearl? 

That’s one reason why I’m replacing some of my present Valiant vines with Noiret. Berry weight is 50% larger and fewer seeds per berry.


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## Newine (Dec 10, 2018)

StevenD55 said:


> Are crimson pearl clusters as small as petit pearl?
> 
> That’s one reason why I’m replacing some of my present Valiant vines with Noiret. Berry weight is 50% larger and fewer seeds per berry.


Valiant is commonly not even classified as a wine grape ( check University of Minnesota classifications and doulble a vineyards, they say it's a juice and jam variety) so I can see replacing it as you say you plan to. I am sure some one is making good wine from it, that said, crimson and petite are sister vines and so are probably very similar in berry size. They are very new releases that have the chemistry to make much better wines than a lot of hybrids. I have Noiret, Foch and Frontenac growing as far as reds go and am adding Petite next year. Noiret is producing less wine then the other two, but better chemistry if you will and is easier to make a good wine from. I continue to add newer, better wine making vines to my hobby vineyard based on what I have read relative to lower acid, as this is a big challenge with Midwest wine making. My second criteria is no hybrid foxiness in flavors, trying to get closer to a vinfera like product. You should check out Plochers website, little clunky but you can find where a May 14 freeze caught Marquette, but Petite Pearl was not damaged due to later budding. With brix around 24, pH around 3.4 and 9 g/l acid it's got some great numbers to work with. I even read about some folks getting acids so low they had to add tartaric, much like a vinefera. Plocher suggests 4 to 5 foot spacing in row, so the yield can be increased, compared to 8 foot I have done in the past. I've also read a lengthy article recently that suggests berry shading reduces berry size, so aside from developing better maturity in the grape, leaf pruning should help increase berry size, so that might help with that concern of yours. As far as whites I have had luck with making decent wine from Seyval Blanc but added a row of Chardonel last year and am adding Itasca this coming year also. Only mention to show I am trying to improve my plantings white and red. Each of my rows are about 200 feet long, so I am not a serious producer. I have a little college credit on the subject and tons of reading, but I am still trying to learn like everyone else on here. Hope this long post helps to provide food for thought.


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## StevenD55 (Dec 10, 2018)

I’m not a big producer either. Coincidentally, my rows are also about 200’. 

Yeah I know on Valiant. MN is not the authority on Valiants though being developed at SDSU. Table Mountain is one of the only remaining wineries I know making wine commercially from Valiant. But I figured out how to get most of the “foxiness” out with help from this forum. I got 400# of those this year and didn’t even pick one row. So, I’m looking to replace 50 vines or so. 

My point is that I don’t want any more varietals with tiny, labor intensive clusters. Canopy management favors Noiret as well, of course. (I have a study on that somewhere). So I doubt that would make up the deficit in size. 

By the way, someone talked about acidity in Marquette. My understanding is that it is not normally a varietal known for high acidity. What we’ve noticed here though is that a lot of cold hearty grapes that have higher acidity common in cold weather varietals it seems can be mitigated by harvesting with higher sugar and hence later in the season, if it doesn’t snow. Maybe petit pearl would benefit from later harvests here as well. A pH of 3.4 is a bit more acidic than I like personally. 

As to my question though, is crimson pearl also a varietal that produces small grapes and tiny clusters? I don’t think I read the answer to that.

Regards.


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## Newine (Dec 10, 2018)

StevenD55 said:


> I’m not a big producer either. Coincidentally, my rows are also about 200’.
> 
> Yeah I know on Valiant. MN is not the authority on Valiants though being developed at SDSU. Table Mountain is one of the only remaining wineries I know making wine commercially from Valiant. But I figured out how to get most of the “foxiness” out with help from this forum. I got 400# of those this year and didn’t even pick one row. So, I’m looking to replace 50 vines or so.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I answered it quick, petite and crimson are sister grapes so expect similar size berries in the cluster.


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## Masbustelo (Dec 11, 2018)

Regarding Crimson Pearl question being a small grape or not: The pearl in the names of these varietals refers to size. They have been bred and chosen partly for the small size as this increases skin contact ration in the must, which increases color and other positive factors. The increased volume of seeds is believed to help the hybrids in the area of tannins. The smaller grapes and increased seeds are generally producing higher quality wines, than the larger more traditional appearing grapes available for the Northern U.S..


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## peterseng (Dec 11, 2018)

Masbustelo said:


> Regarding Crimson Pearl question being a small grape or not: The pearl in the names of these varietals refers to size. They have been bred and chosen partly for the small size as this increases skin contact ration in the must, which increases color and other positive factors. The increased volume of seeds is believed to help the hybrids in the area of tannins. The smaller grapes and increased seeds are generally producing higher quality wines, than the larger more traditional appearing grapes available for the Northern U.S..


Thanks for that clarification. I am currently leaning toward Crimson Pearl for my planting and knowing the benefits of the smaller berries is quite helpful.


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## StevenD55 (Dec 12, 2018)

peterseng said:


> Thanks for that clarification. I am currently leaning toward Crimson Pearl for my planting and knowing the benefits of the smaller berries is quite helpful.



Sounds like an experiment for sure. 

Reading all of this, I was curious and did a little more research. 3 points jumped out at me: 

You are in Zone 6 and thinking of growing a Zone 4 grape, right? That’s not too bad. But have you found any other experienced growers your area to see what they grow? Generally growers want to grow grapes that lean to the warmer side of their zone. The Zone 6 Cab Savs I’ve had would be a good choice for me on some years, but just isn’t one that I can reasonably count on to ripen. 70 miles away, it grows and ripens just fine. 

It was mentioned that bud break for pearl grapes is May 14 or so. Checking the sun’s inclination in MN for May 14, it’s roughly 60 degree angle. Where you are, 60 degrees of inclination occurs in April. So bud break may well be earlier. What are the chances of frost in early May? I didn’t compare average temperatures for the 2 locations though. 

It was also mentioned that there is a benefit of small berries and more seeds with regard to tannins. The article in the link below gives a little different perspective on this subject and even then, the experts’ conclusions seems to be more focused on seeds being “not evil” as opposed to being advantageous, except as compared to seedless. Being a matter of personal taste it doesn’t seem like there is really much science behind it. But since the producer is marketing a small, seedy grape, I would be surprised if he were to take any other position...

https://www.winesandvines.com/columns/section/24/article/92981/Seed-Tannin-A-Necessary-Evil 

This article is a little more scientific and discusses stems and seeds. It supports the practice of one of my friends that believes in leaving some stems in the must. It does say seeds add to color whereas stems detract. But I’ve never had a problem with color in my wines except when I limited skin contact. 

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jafc.6b01806

Anyway, playing devil’s advocate I guess. But, my nature is to explore both sides of the situation. 

Good Luck!


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## peterseng (Dec 12, 2018)

Hi Steve. Thanks for your thoughts on this - and SOMEONE has to play devil's advocate. Your remarks about late frost and bud-break give me pause. The last frost for my area seems to typically be late April or early May. With an estimated May 14 bud break, that didn't seem too risky, but if what you said about sun angle holds true, it could become a problem
Regarding growing a zone 6 grape, my biggest concerns are that they may not ripen, or only do so intermittently. Since I have such a limited space to plant vines (probably room for a dozen) I don't want to spend the money, time and effort on something that has a significant chance of not yielding a harvest. My area seems to normally experience about 2300 GDD by the end of September, which is not enough warmth to ripen most traditional vinifera vines (from what I've read).That's why I was leaning toward the hardier vines with shorter growth cycles.
Regarding seeds and stems, I hadn't initially thought too much about that until someone mentioned the skin to pulp ratio in a small berry being higher. I will definitely read through the articles you linked. More knowledge is always a good thing! Thanks!


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## peterseng (Dec 12, 2018)

Oh, and as for experienced growers in my area, I do not know of any. I am relatively new to this town, and the Lehigh Valley (where I spent most of my life) has a significantly different climate. There is only one professional vineyard I have found that grows nearby in similar conditions, and they seemed to opt for warmer climate grapes, but based on the availability of the wines from some varietals, I suspect they have had limited success. To be fair, however, I have not yet reached out to them regarding this.


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## StevenD55 (Dec 12, 2018)

You are fortunate with your last frost being that early. Ours is more like Mem Day.

One practice might be to cover your vines if you can. I read a little about pruning early buds. The vine will produce replacement buds, but yield not be as bountiful. I don’t recall where I read about this practice though. You will just have experiment. 

Issues with mildew are pretty much unheard of here. It sounds something else you will need to consider. 

Regards.


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## peterseng (Dec 12, 2018)

Covering the vines might be a viable option since I'm talking about such a small plot. As for mildew, it will definitely be something to take into consideration with as much rain as we get here.


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## tom6922 (Dec 12, 2018)

peterseng said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! I took a look at Marquette and it seems like a good match. My biggest concern is that (from what I've read) the acidity is rather high. I don't have much experience managing acidity at that level. Do you have any suggestions for addressing that?



all the grapes I grow have similar high acidity, surprising to me that even the cab franc was high, maybe due to my Michigan climate or soil? I lower them primarily with calcium carbonate (by treating 25% of the juice, then adding it back to the main batch). Also if the brix is over 22 (which Marquette is) I will add a little water. I haven't tried an MLF yet, but will next year (ph has to be at least 3.1). Lastly, I will backsweeten it slightly at bottling to balance the acidity. I experiment with different sweetness additions and aim for a good balance. I'm gradually replacing my other reds with Marquette, no grape is perfect, but for me it's the closest.


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## tom6922 (Dec 12, 2018)

peterseng said:


> Thanks for the warning about early budding, Steve. That is one aspect I hadn't thought to consider, but an important one!



True that Marquette buds out a few days to a week earlier than some others, which leaves it vulnerable to a late freeze. To counter that, I don't prune until mid-April (which is supposed to delay onset of bud break) and I leave longer spurs and a few long canes. If we get a late freeze and a lot of buds die, that gives me greater bud survival and some options. If no late freeze, then I do a final pruning in mid-May. Most years I have gotten very good harvests.


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## StevenD55 (Dec 12, 2018)

tom6922 said:


> all the grapes I grow have similar high acidity, surprising to me that even the cab franc was high, maybe due to my Michigan climate or soil? I lower them primarily with calcium carbonate (by treating 25% of the juice, then adding it back to the main batch). Also if the brix is over 22 (which Marquette is) I will add a little water. I haven't tried an MLF yet, but will next year (ph has to be at least 3.1). Lastly, I will backsweeten it slightly at bottling to balance the acidity. I experiment with different sweetness additions and aim for a good balance. I'm gradually replacing my other reds with Marquette, no grape is perfect, but for me it's the closest.



Marquette is supposedly low acid. But I sure do hear a lot of discussion about acidity issues. 

Here is one reference on controlling acidity and sugar. Probably worth a try. 

http://northerngrapesproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Marquette-and-Frontenac-Viticulture-fruit-ripening-enology-and-tasting.


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## peterseng (Jan 9, 2019)

After much deliberation (and quite a fair bit of distraction) I think I've settled on Crimson Pearl. I would like, however, to try a wine made from this grape before investing the time, money and energy into planting a dozen vines. Does anyone happen to know where I can find wine made from Crimson Pearl for sale? I have spent quite a bit of time searching online and cannot seem to find it available anywhere...


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## CabEnthusiast (Jan 21, 2019)

If you go vinifera, then Cabernet Franc is extremely cold tolerant, It is actually the most cold tolerant of the vinifera vines. that is not a hybrid.


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## Rice_Guy (Jan 22, 2019)

Big big Creek is the first place I would go. The owner is extremely proficient in the vineyard. One thing not mentioned is spraying. Big creek likes organic with treatments like Bordeaux mix, again he has the science down and has a good library. Jim Thorp has lots of elevation, depending on land you shouldn’t have to use Mn hybrids.
Of the northern hybrids l am moving toward Itasca as a white. Last year was high sugar / low TA. My Edelweiss is getting a hair cut at ground level since it will fall off the plant above 16 brix. My guess is if it says thick skin or ice wine it will hang till it is actually ripe. Briana will stay at least till I have more Itasca. I don’t have a favorite red. Marquette, Foch are ok. The comments about small berry are true. Talking with Plocher he skips mentioning need to spray
If I am making life / cultural practices easy I like Niagara, Concord, Beta,,, and live with foxy flavors. Having plants has been “the year I learned about” black rot, Japanese beetles, grape leaf weevils, etc. The second place I would go is your Pa extension to ask about culture. Iowa, Indiana have good info on the web.


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## CabEnthusiast (Jan 22, 2019)

Rice_Guy said:


> Big big Creek is the first place I would go. The owner is extremely proficient in the vineyard. One thing not mentioned is spraying. Big creek likes organic with treatments like Bordeaux mix, again he has the science down and has a good library. Jim Thorp has lots of elevation, depending on land you shouldn’t have to use Mn hybrids.
> Of the northern hybrids l am moving toward Itasca as a white. Last year was high sugar / low TA. My Edelweiss is getting a hair cut at ground level since it will fall off the plant above 16 brix. My guess is if it says thick skin or ice wine it will hang till it is actually ripe. Briana will stay at least till I have more Itasca. I don’t have a favorite red. Marquette, Foch are ok. The comments about small berry are true. Talking with Plocher he skips mentioning need to spray
> If I am making life / cultural practices easy I like Niagara, Concord, Beta,,, and live with foxy flavors. Having plants has been “the year I learned about” black rot, Japanese beetles, grape leaf weevils, etc. The second place I would go is your Pa extension to ask about culture. Iowa, Indiana have good info on the web.


Bordeaux mix if you are talking about the mixture to treat fungus, is dangerous stuff, its actually toxic and people have died from using it frequently, and it runs off into the soil contributing to toxicity in soil. Just thought that I would mention that.


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## GreginND (Jan 24, 2019)

StevenD55 said:


> Are crimson pearl clusters as small as petit pearl?
> 
> That’s one reason why I’m replacing some of my present Valiant vines with Noiret. Berry weight is 50% larger and fewer seeds per berry.



No, they are bigger than petite pearl. Overall, Crimson pearl is a great grape to work with. It has later bud break and early ripening like others have mentioned. Marquette has struggled here with frost damage and cordon damage even in seemingly milder winters. I haven't grown crimson yet but have had plenty of wine made from it now. It is amenable to a lot of different styles of wine. I think Petite Pearl has a bit more complex and dense flavor (more skin/juice ratio?). But Crimson is a better grower and excellent flavor.


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## peterseng (Jan 30, 2019)

GreginND said:


> No, they are bigger than petite pearl. Overall, Crimson pearl is a great grape to work with. It has later bud break and early ripening like others have mentioned. Marquette has struggled here with frost damage and cordon damage even in seemingly milder winters. I haven't grown crimson yet but have had plenty of wine made from it now. It is amenable to a lot of different styles of wine. I think Petite Pearl has a bit more complex and dense flavor (more skin/juice ratio?). But Crimson is a better grower and excellent flavor.


Greg, I wanted to try some wines made with the grapes I am considering, but have been unable to locate anything made with Crimson Pearl. Can you point me in the direction of a Winery that makes this wine?


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## ThreeSheetsToTheWind (Jan 30, 2019)

Petersen, I'm not sure how hard it would be to get the bottle to your door, but a the Richibucto River Wine estate in New-Brunswick, Canada makes some great wines from the Northern hybrids. 

Their Foch and Marquette are my favorite wines. Period. Now I'm not a wine snob, but I know what I like, and I know what I don't like. And I like those wines. So much so that I planted some.

I remember seeing one of their bottles not long ago and it was one of the pearls, not sure which one. It might be worth your while to contact the Hudsons and see if you can get a bottle or three shipped.

We're about on the line between zones 4b and 5a if I'm not mistaken, and their vineyards always look great. No problems growing those up here. Best of luck in your quest!


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