# Hello All! Newbie Here! Started my Blackb



## ashton Hammar (Sep 16, 2008)

Hello All!

Just wanted to say hello to everyone - I just recently got into wine making and just started my first 5G Blackberry Wine. Thank you all - I found this forum a few days ago and have been reading all the posts and topics. It has helped greatly and reduced my apprehensions on screwing up to much... not to say that I haven't already. LOL

Question: When I eventually rack into the secondary and degas do most people usually wait 3-4 wks before stabilizing (or until relatively clear)? What ratio of meta do you add to the wine?

Thanks!


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## NorthernWinos (Sep 16, 2008)

Welcome ashton,,,Hope you enjoy your stay here....

I am sure members will help you with your questions...

I've learned so much here while others held my hand through some new experiences.


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## Wade E (Sep 16, 2008)

I always add 1/4 tsp of k-meta and recommended amount of sorbate per 5-6 gallon batch and then degas as degassing a wine will help the wine clear faster. I say recommended dosage of sorbate because some manufacturers specify different amounts but its typically 1/4 -1/2 tsp. per gallon. After that you can let time clear the wine or use a fining agent such as SuperKleer KC. Welcome to this forum and hope you stay awhile and share with us more about yourself.


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## smurfe (Sep 17, 2008)

Welcome to the forums and good luck with your first wine as well as all others. You have various options/choices you can follow with your blackberry wine. You can take the route of just letting time do its thing and let it sit for an extended period of time and let it clear by itself and then stabilize before bottling or you can do as kit makers do and stabilize and degas as soon as fermentation is done. Remember to that the K-Meta is not actually a stabilizer but rather a preservative. It is an anti oxidant that inhibits oxidation to the wine. Sorbate will actually stabilize the wine and make it still to inhibit further fermentation.


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## ashton Hammar (Sep 18, 2008)

Thanks all... everyday I read all of your postings and have so many of my questions answered. Another quick one, Smurfe you mentioned that meta is a preservative, so should I add it right after I rack into my carboy? Does it stop fermentation? Is degassing referring to the gas given off? (SO2 I think?) Wait... I have read I transfer to the carboy around 1.03 SG so don't I ferment until 1 or drier? Then back-sweeten if I want?

thanks


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## Wade E (Sep 18, 2008)

You dont want to add k-meta till it is done fermenting and that is usually around an SG of .996 or there about and staying at that SG for 3-4days consecutively. As far as how much k-meta it is 1/4 tsp per 506 gallons. degassing is what you do when it is done fermenting and you have added your k-meta and sorbate so it can clear naturally or you can add your fining agents. A wine will not clear properly if not degassed well. S02 is the gas you want in the wine as it represents the k-meta and C02 is what you want out of your wine.


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## ashton Hammar (Sep 21, 2008)

Just racked my Blackberry with SG reading 1.02 - the wine is bubbling away nicely and has a nice dark red color. I have some pics to share with all but can't seem to locate my camera cord. When I find it I will upload the pics.

I am going to add 2 tsp of nutrient to just make sure that the yeast is healthy and strong. I hope the wait to rack over at 1.02 SG doesn't hurt the wine. I was out of town when it dropped below 1.03. Could this cause any type of problems?


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## Wade E (Sep 21, 2008)

I wouldnt add anything more at this point, just let it finish. Adding now will probably result in an off flavor as it will not eat much more as its almost finished with the sugar.


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## ashton Hammar (Sep 21, 2008)

K, thanks Wade I really appreciate all your timely responses. I will let it be and finish up.


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## ashton Hammar (Sep 24, 2008)

So, as I have been reading on the forum and have found a few different types of oaking styles. I am going to start a Pumpkin Spice wine and am going to oak with a light to medium roast, as I feel it will bring adepth and complexityto, from what I gather, a simple wine.


I have seen there are cubes and spirals used foroaking- does anyone have recommendations whether to use the cube or spiral? Is there a big difference? What about American vs European? I want to fuse a nice oak flavor to the Pumpkin but not overpower. 


Thanks!


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## Wade E (Sep 24, 2008)

Oaks vs, Spirals is a tough 1 as they both work excellent as they both provide lots of surface area to release their flavor. For something as light as pumpkin I would go with a light tight toast and taste frequently as it can over power something like a pumpkin wine very fast. I myself would go with French for this but thats all personal preference. Spirals are ver easy to get out though without racking.


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## PeterZ (Sep 25, 2008)

The spirals are rather large, so unless you are making 5 - 6 gallons of pumpkin I would go with cubes. You can start with just a little and add as necessary after tasting.


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## ashton Hammar (Sep 29, 2008)

So I racked my Blackberry last night after SG held at about .996 for a few days. This was my first rack from carboy to carboy and let me tell ya, I was terrible! I got some sediment off the bottom and then added back to my wine some juice I extracted from my discarded pulp and wine. (I think it added more sediment) Since I lost a bit of wine, I felt I had to dilute a bit to top it off.

I then added a 1/4 tsp K-Meta and 1/2tsp per gallon of sorbate. I don't have a mixer so I did it via spoon - don't think I stirred it long enough so I am going to stir some more today. So as to the sediment, would adding perhaps another 1/4 to 1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme help dissolve my floaters/sediment? Would that have any negative impact or would it even work since I have added meta and sulfate?

Also has anyone used the method I am posting the link to to degass their wine?
http://www.gofish.com/player.gfp?gfid=30-1196228

Thanks


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## Wade E (Sep 29, 2008)

I would not add anymore pectic enzyme if you already added it up front.
As far as degassing goes there are a few of us that do just that and a
few of us that take it to the next level with a tool that makes it even
easier and fool proof as it has a gauge on it. I use a tool called a brake bleeder which is basically a stronger version of the wine saver which also has the gauge on it to tell you how much vacuum you can hold. It works much better on a big batch then the wine saver but the wine saver is a great tool for keeping wine bottles. You just hook up a hose and insert a fitting that comes with it into your bung and squeeze until you can hold a vac. of around $20" vac on the gauge for 10 minutes or abouts. It costs about $29 but knowing you are done is worth it.






*Edited by: wade *


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## Wade E (Sep 29, 2008)

Here is a good pic of Swill using his.


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## uavwmn (Sep 30, 2008)

welcome Ashton. Enjoy the Forum!! AND the wine!!


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## ashton Hammar (Oct 7, 2008)

So I FINALLY found camera cord and here are some of my pics from my first Raspberry in hopefully somewhat sequential order...



Here is my pulp fermenting...




Transferring my wine into my secondary... (I think next time I will siphon instead of using the tap at the base - I got a lot of sediment. How do most people use?)











So as you can see I had quit a bit of seditment in my secondary and was going to test my racking skills... which you will find out from my next picture I failed










So this last pic is after my final racking for storage. It is not looking good but I think I have a lot of suspended CO2 within my wine that is helping suspend the sediment and make it look like a lot more than it is.

I am waiting on getting the degasser device Wade told me about and then I am going to suck out the CO2 - wait a month? and then try and rack off the sediment.




*Edited by: ashton Hammar *


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## grapeman (Oct 8, 2008)

Your pictures need to be either uploaded to this forum or hosted on an online photo hosting service - such as PhotoBucket. To upload here,use the reply button from a previous post not the quick one at the bottom. That gives you an upload file icon button. File size has to be under 150 kb and can not contain special characters or spaces in the file name- such as @#$%. You can get photo resizers online to shrink them easily. Good luck and let us know if you need more instructions. Masta had a tutorial on photo uploading here.


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## PeterZ (Oct 8, 2008)

Ashton, the fine lees you have in the wine will not cause off-tastes. They will actually improve the mouth feel of the wine, making it "buttery."


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## ashton Hammar (Oct 8, 2008)

Okay so I tried posting the pics this time put them online... but does anyone use a Mac? The instructions on uploading pics are for PC - and I would think is should be easier but it keeps giving me that damn ? 

Thoughts?


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## NorthernWinos (Oct 9, 2008)

ashton Hammar said:


> Okay so I tried posting the pics this time put them online... but does anyone use a Mac? The instructions on uploading pics are for PC - and I would think is should be easier but it keeps giving me that damn ?
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?



I have a PC and had trouble loading photos with different browsers.

I opened a FREE account at Photobucket.com I uploaded my resized photos there....

Then I open 2 browsers/pages....One with my Fine Vine Wines Post ready for the photos and one with my photos in Photobucket.com

Then I highlight the bottom box under the desired photos till the IMG box turns blue....

The Right Click...choose COPY

Got to your Post and Right Click PASTE....the url will be there and the photos should show up on your Post.

At least it does with a PC.

One good thing with PhotoBucket...if your computer ever crashes your photos are always there.

Give it a try...Good luck.

We like photos here....


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## ashton Hammar (Oct 24, 2008)

So I got sidetracked which is fine since my wine doesn't do to much... lol 
So I was having difficulties with pictures but opened and account with PhotoBucket and vwala!!!
I FINALLY found camera cord and here are some of my pics from my first Raspberry in hopefully somewhat sequential order... 

Here is my pulp fermenting... 






Transferring my wine into my secondary... (I think next time I will siphon instead of using the tap at the base - I got a lot of sediment. How do most people use?) 






So as you can see I had quit a bit of seditment in my secondary and was going to test my racking skills... which you will find out from my next picture I failed






So this last pic is after my final racking for storage. It is not looking good but I think I have a lot of suspended CO2 within my wine that is helping suspend the sediment and make it look like a lot more than it is?






Update - I got my degasser device Wade told me about and then I degassed until I held a -20 fairly consistently. All the sediment is not suspended, I actually did do a terrible job. It has been about a month since my first rack and I am going to attempt to do a better job this time.

I have a concerns:
1) after my first rack I lost a bit of wine and topped off w/ water; I don't want to dilute my batch - any suggestions on topping off? 
2) Next - does my wine still have sulfites if I completely degas or does it requre CO2 to be left in the wine, and lastly
3) I added sorbate because I thought you always add Kmeta and sorbate together. Now I have read in some places you are suppose to wait until right before you back-sweeten because sorbate can give off-tastes. Is this true and should I be concerned?

Good to finally get these pictures up and let you all know how it is going. It tastes a little light - I have some oak I was thinking of adding after my second rack. Any thoughts? Oh yeah just about to start my Spiced Pumpkin Wine. Thanks all.


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## Waldo (Oct 25, 2008)

1. For topping off you can get a similar commercial wine. I would also recommend on future batches to start off with about 3/4 gallon more than your finish target amount. That gives extra for topping off later. Justmake sure you have a jar/bottle with a bung and airlock to rack the extra into.


2. I will leave this question to be answered by the resident experts on this subject. I have yet totestmine for sulfites. I just use the recommend amount at intitial fermentation and with each racking and move on.


3. After fermentation hs completed ( verified with SG reading) I always add my sulfite and sorbate at the same time.


When you get ready to rack again about 2-3 days before ou are going to rack try putting a small saucer under one edge of your carboy, giving it aslight list. When you do rack, do not let the tip of of your racking can or auto siphon, whichever you are using into the sediment. keep it just slightly above he sediment.


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## Wade E (Oct 25, 2008)

Hi Ashton, at first racking you are always going to get lots of sediment as it is still floating in the wine especially when using fruit where the pulp is very small like raspberries. After 1st racking it is no concern about being low in the carboy as it should still be fermenting cause you usually rack around 1.020 or a little bit lower and will create more gas to protect your wine in carboy. At this point your just waiting till fermentation is done (stable) by checking for same SG 3 days in a row. Waldo is completely right about starting off with more then you want, especially when making a fruit wine as its near impossible to use a like wine to top off with for fruit wines. 

1 As far as topping off, there are a few ways to protect your wine at this point. 1 is to get various size carboys to rack down to and this is really the best wayYou should have an assortment of sizes like 6, 5, 3, 1 and magnum wine bottles and all the bungs and airlocks to go with them. This way you can just rack to the next size down and if there is too much for that vessel you put the rest in what vessel will fit it the best. Other methods are to buy gases such as Argon or Nitrogen or C02 to add to the top of your carboy. 
2 As far as sulfite goes, Waldo is right again, You should add sulfite and sorbate when your wine is stable and degas at this point so your wine can start clearing. The smell you heard about is given off from sorbate when sorbate is added with a low sulfate level and thats why we add k-meta then sulfite. As you notice question 2 and 3 kind of go together.
As far as adding oak at this point, I would recommend cubes or even better spirals as they wount leave such a mess. Chips and dust are basically for addig to your wine during primary fermentation so you can rack off them and because they will give you lots of surface area that will oak your wine fast so racking off them along with gross lees is best.


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## NorthernWinos (Oct 25, 2008)

Is that a wine spot on the carpet???? [If so use some OxyClean or peroxide to get it off.]

Most importantly....How does it taste????





Thanks for the photos....we love photos!!!!

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## rgecaprock (Oct 25, 2008)

*Hi Ashton, Welcome to the Forum. Hope you enjoy it and gain vast knowledge from all of the fine winemakers here. We love to hear your experiences.*


*Ramona*


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## ashton Hammar (Oct 28, 2008)

Okay - so I haven't transferred my Raspberry wine yet because I need to get a 3 gal carboy, BUT I did start my pumpkin spice wine at long last. Began it Saturday and started fermentation Sunday with Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast: SG ~1.08, acid content ~5ppt, and today it is still bubbling strong!

I am a bit concerned (sort of) because its SG is down to ~1.04. I don't think it has been in primary that long and is their any side effects to not transferring when it is to 1.03? I am worried about not getting enough taste into the wine... thoughts?

Oh yeah it tastes good if not a bit on the light side of course. Very bubbly/carbonated. Appreciate thoughts on leaving it in past 1.03.


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## Wade E (Oct 28, 2008)

You can lave it in longer but beware not to open it again till you have a carboy or you will lose all protection from gases. Once in carboy and it will most likely be done fermenting please degas so as to get some C02 out of your wine and protect your wine. RJ Spagnols wine kits have you use this method as it helps you to get the gas out of your wine easier amongst other reasons.


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## ashton Hammar (Oct 28, 2008)

Wait so I will leave it in the primary until maybe around ~1.02 then transfer to the carboy. I didn't think I add kmeta and get some CO2 into the wine and degass until it is completely done fermenting?Also I am still stirring my wine about 3x a day; it won't lose its protection from stirring will it?


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## grapeman (Oct 29, 2008)

Just a point of clarity here for you. Wine produces C02 as it ferments among other gasses. When you degas this is the stuff you want to get out of the wines. During fermentation and after the first racking, heavy C02 production protects your wine from 02. After fermentation is complete it doesn't produce C02 anymore so you degas to get the rest of it out. That is when you need to add k-meta for S02 production. Remember they aren't the same gas. After the initial transfer at 1.020-1.030(I prefer just a bit lower myself) you don't need to stir it. At that point it isn't producing as much gas so you could get oxygen in it too much at that point. 


I hope this makes it a bit clearer and not more complicated for you.


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## ashton Hammar (Oct 30, 2008)

Thanks all! Well checked it after got back from work and it had fermented down to 1! So I started the transfer; I thought my starting SG was a little weak so I added 2 cups of water & 2 cups sugar, and 2 tsp of nutrient to the transferring wine. From the looks of the bubbling my yeast has started back-up (yeah!) and hopefully will be in the 12% range for alcohol content.

It did not taste good; which is weird since it tasted good earlier, but hopefully it will pass. Anyways, I am planning on letting it work its way through the last 2 cups of sugar I added, I will let it all settle, then rack over in 1-2 wks give or take. 

On a good note, at least it has the right color



So here it is!!!


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## NorthernWinos (Oct 31, 2008)

What wine is this picture of?????


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## uavwmn (Oct 31, 2008)

Ashton, welcome to the Forum. And enjoy this great hobby!!


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## Wade E (Oct 31, 2008)

Looks good!


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## Waldo (Oct 31, 2008)

Never saw a Blackberry turn that color ashton.....What kind is that in the picture


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## grapeman (Nov 1, 2008)

My guess is that it is the pumpkin wine just started-mentioned on the previous page. I had to double check because I wondered the same thing!


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## ashton Hammar (Jun 19, 2009)

Hello everyone! It has been a while since I have been on the forum but I am still making my wine. The blackberry is just about ready to bottle - it has been 1 year!!! It tastes pretty good, my friends like it, but it doesn't have as much body as I would like. I plan on keeping it a semi-dry... I was curious if anybody knew how to add 'body' to a wine?


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