# Acidity



## derekjames100 (Oct 10, 2016)

Got 5 lugs of petit Syrah


Can someone check my work and answer my questions?


1) I calculated it to be 12.5 gallons finished wine so 18g must...added 7/8 tsp k meta to kill natural yeast

2) brix 24-- good

3) pH was 3.75 with TA 0.9

Does that pH TA make sense? I bought the NaOH maybe 1 year ago....do you think it is weak? Do you guys rebuy every year...


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## ibglowin (Oct 10, 2016)

Why didn't you just measure the height of the must in your primary and then calculate the volume based on the formula for a cylinder (assuming your primary is a Brute trash can? No need to guess.

Yes, NaOH can go bad in a years time. At less than $3 a bottle its cheap enough to just a buy a new bottle each year. 

How are you measuring pH? How are you measuring TA?


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## derekjames100 (Oct 10, 2016)

I have a pretty good PH meter from Hanna. HI98127. I followed the instructions on the TA titration kit and added NaOH until ph of 8.2. I used 10cc must and dropped in the 1n NaOH. 

Also, the guy at the wine said use RC212. I was going to use d 254 but they didn't have it


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## ibglowin (Oct 10, 2016)

The pH and TA and not matching up. I would get some fresh NaOH and test TA again. If you get the same result then just go with it as your pH should drop a bit with fermentation. I would not add any acid.


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## TonyR (Oct 11, 2016)

Check you ph again after you press. You can live with the Ph you have but you must be real careful with your wine, make sure you use k-meta. With low Ph your wine is opened up to spoilage and after being bottled the shelf life is not as long. Chances are the numbers will change some after fermentation is done. Buy new regent for testing Ta. Also did you calabrate your Ph meter? That needs fresh Solution also.


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## grapeman (Oct 11, 2016)

TonyR said:


> With low Ph your wine is opened up to spoilage and after being bottled the shelf life is not as long.


 
This would be slightly high pH, low acidity. Low pH is more acidic and requires less sulfite. I know you know what you mean but newer winemakers might get confused.


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## derekjames100 (Oct 11, 2016)

grapeman said:


> This would be slightly high pH, low acidity. Low pH is more acidic and requires less sulfite. I know you know what you mean but newer winemakers might get confused.




I don't see how it can be low acidity with a TA of 0.9? Can you please explain?

I did calibrate the pH meter twice.


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## ibglowin (Oct 11, 2016)

He meant high acidity, high pH which is a mismatch (usually).


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## Masbustelo (Oct 11, 2016)

You didn't say what variety of grapes you are working with. If they are Northern hybrids, they can easily be within the parameters you are finding.


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## Johnd (Oct 11, 2016)

derekjames100 said:


> I don't see how it can be low acidity with a TA of 0.9? Can you please explain?
> 
> I did calibrate the pH meter twice.



In your original post, you indicated that "pH was 3.75 with TA 0.9"

A pH of 3.75 is a bit on the high side, indicating that your wine is less acidic, and will require more S02 to protect it. 

A TA of .9 indicates the presence of a lot of acid. As Mike said, normally, you don't get a high pH number AND a high TA, as a high pH number indicates too little acid, and a high TA number indicates too much acid.

That's why several folks asked you to calibrate, recheck, make sure your regents were fresh, etc., just to make sure your readings were right.


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## derekjames100 (Oct 11, 2016)

Petit Syrah from Lodi. On my way to get NaOH. Will let you know. Thanks!


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## ceeaton (Oct 11, 2016)

derekjames100 said:


> Petit Syrah from Lodi. On my way to get NaOH. Will let you know. Thanks!



I'm finding, even in my refrigerator, that my NaOH goes down hill pretty quickly. I bought fresh solution this Spring and it was already giving up the goat when I was testing this Fall. Figure I'm buying solution every season that I get fresh grapes, don't want to have messed up numbers verses saving a few bucks.


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## derekjames100 (Oct 11, 2016)

New NaOH. pH 3.8 TA .63

Now we are in business


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## ceeaton (Oct 11, 2016)

derekjames100 said:


> New NaOH. pH 3.8 TA .63
> 
> Now we are in bysiness



That is much more in line. Wish there was a better test to see if you NaOH was okay. The only thing I do is if I get an out of line value, I test it on a known wine. Problem is it makes me open a bottle or two. Now that I think about it, maybe that isn't a real problem.


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## Johny99 (Oct 11, 2016)

Much better numbers. A poll, how many of you refrigerate your NaOH?


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## Johnd (Oct 11, 2016)

Johny99 said:


> Much better numbers. A poll, how many of you refrigerate your NaOH?



+1, keep it in the wine room.


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## Brub58 (Oct 12, 2016)

Why would refrigerating it make a difference? It degrades due to exposure to CO2 (in the air), not heat.

So, no, I don't. But I do test it against a HCl standard every time I use it.


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## ceeaton (Oct 28, 2016)

Brub58 said:


> Why would refrigerating it make a difference? It degrades due to exposure to CO2 (in the air), not heat.
> 
> So, no, I don't. But I do test it against a HCl standard every time I use it.



Ah, where do you get the HCl standard and can you describe how you test to see if the NaOH is any good?

I'm having issues once again with two month old NaOH, I need a way to check it out before I use it, to see if I need to replace it. I wish I could mix this stuff up myself.


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## ibglowin (Oct 28, 2016)

Evaporation. Even if the top is screwed on tight it happens.



Brub58 said:


> Why would refrigerating it make a difference?


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## ceeaton (Oct 28, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> Evaporation. Even if the top is screwed on tight it happens.



Would food saving the bottle after each use help (I'm serious, this is so frustrating)?


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## Brub58 (Oct 29, 2016)

I get the HCl from the LHBS. I titrate against 10ml of the standard. If it takes 10 ml of NaOH I'm good to go.
http://www.anpros.com.au/laboratory-reagents/hydrochloric-acid-0-100m/


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## ibglowin (Oct 29, 2016)

What does that mean! We use a wrap of parafilm on solutions we want to keep from evaporating and then we will store it in a chemical fridge or even in the freezer on some chems. 






ceeaton said:


> Would food saving the bottle after each use help (I'm serious, this is so frustrating)?


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## ceeaton (Oct 29, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> What does that mean! We use a wrap of parafilm on solutions we want to keep from evaporating and then we will store it in a chemical fridge or even in the freezer on some chems.



Sorry, a family shortcut term that means to put it in a food storage bag (the whole bottle) and vacuum seal it. At this point I keep it in the fridge in a zip lock bag with as much of the atmosphere removed from the bag as possible. I'm finding it starts loosing its viability within two months (the stuff I bought in late August is taking 10% more solution to reach my endpoint here at the end of October).


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