# 2018 Lodi Cabernet Sauvignon



## Johnd

Finally recieved word Sunday that the grapes were ready to be picked, here's the plan for the '18 Cab. 

The grapes are on the way, harvested yesterday, loaded into the refrigerated truck, and on the road. BRIX is reported to be in the 26 range and pH in mid / upper 3's, pretty much par for the course for Lodi Cabs. The supplier said that when they picked, the grapes had "perfectly ripened" this year with good warm sunny days and cool nights, beautiful fruit. Time will tell.

Fruit is scheduled to arrive on Thursday, my plan is to be there when it does, bring it home to C/D, hit with some enzyme, and make any needed adjustments, pitch yeast, and head up to the property for a few days, expecting to return home to newly forming caps.

Will be fermenting half the batch with BM4x4, the other half with D254, and coinoculating with VP-41, may hold out a few gallons for a little native yeast experiment as well.

Should be pressing by the middle / end of next week, racking off of the gross lees next weekend, and finishing up MLF sometime around the end of October. After sulfiting and sitting in the wine room for a month or so to degas some and drop some sediment, it'll be going into a 60 gallon Alain Fouquet Prestige Margaux barrel with M+ toast for a couple of years. The barrel is scheduled to arrive before the end of October.

Got all the gear and supplies in order, ready to rumble, few more days til showtime......


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## sour_grapes

I love it when a plan comes together. (I like it even more on the very rare occasions it happens near my abode!  )


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## CDrew

Sounds great. Weather has been great here (I'm 30 miles north of Lodi) for the last several months, and the grapes look great. Warm days/cool nights.

How many pounds of grapes? A 60 gallon barrel sounds like 600+ pounds. It's going to be a big effort!


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## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Sounds great. Weather has been great here (I'm 30 miles north of Lodi) for the last several months, and the grapes look great. Warm days/cool nights.
> 
> How many pounds of grapes? A 60 gallon barrel sounds like 600+ pounds. It's going to be a big effort!



What a great place to live!! I'd get into a lot of winemaking trouble living around there....

I've got 30 lugs of Cab on the way, so 1,080 pounds in all, 6 lugs are for @Scott Harbison who will be making his first effort into grape winemaking. Imagine we'll fill the 60 gallon barrel and have a few carboys left over.

Just heard from the winery that they expect the load in at 8 AM on Thursday morning, they have multiple macro-bins for their winery, I just piggy-backed into a little extra space on the truck, ended up paying $29 per 36 pound lug for the Lodi Cab fruit, my best price point yet.........


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> What a great place to live!! I'd get into a lot of winemaking trouble living around there....
> 
> I've got 30 lugs of Cab on the way, so 1,080 pounds in all, 6 lugs are for @Scott Harbison who will be making his first effort into grape winemaking. Imagine we'll fill the 60 gallon barrel and have a few carboys left over.
> 
> Just heard from the winery that they expect the load in at 8 AM on Thursday morning, they have multiple macro-bins for their winery, I just piggy-backed into a little extra space on the truck, ended up paying $29 per 36 pound lug for the Lodi Cab fruit, my best price point yet.........



That's an excellent price almost half of what we get for premium fruit. Will anyone be home punching down the cap while your away. Mine have been forming overnight.


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## CDrew

Johnd said:


> What a great place to live!! I'd get into a lot of winemaking trouble living around there....
> 
> I've got 30 lugs of Cab on the way, so 1,080 pounds in all, 6 lugs are for @Scott Harbison who will be making his first effort into grape winemaking. Imagine we'll fill the 60 gallon barrel and have a few carboys left over.
> 
> ended up paying $29 per 36 pound lug for the Lodi Cab fruit, my best price point yet.........



Yes-there are vineyards and wineries in all directions from where I live. Even Napa/Sonoma are under 2 hours, though the tasting experience in Napa has gone down hill with so many visitors, and high charges to taste. When my wife and I go, it's usually to Amador/El Dorado which is close (40 minutes) and there are still many family run operations. I also very much like Dry Creek Valley for their excellent Zinfandels and Cabs. It's more of a time commitment being a solid 2 hour drive from home.

Your price does sound extremely good. I usually pay $0.50-$0.75 per pound and you are right in that ballpark and yours are transported 2000 miles! Lodi in recent years has been upping their game, and clearly want to become another wine "destination". I hope they succeed.

Good luck with it. Will watch for updates.


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## cmason1957

Wow, $29/36 lbs. That sure beats the price I can get in the Missouri area from the one and only place that sells grapes and juice locally. I just re looked at it, Grapes are $68 / 36 lbs and juice is $70 or more for a 6 gallon bucket. Outside my price range.


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## mainshipfred

cmason1957 said:


> Wow, $29/36 lbs. That sure beats the price I can get in the Missouri area from the one and only place that sells grapes and juice locally. I just re looked at it, Grapes are $68 / 36 lbs and juice is $70 or more for a 6 gallon bucket. Outside my price range.



In our area, Central Valley (we never really know where they come from) grapes can be as low a $35/lug up to around $55 so I should consider myself lucky. At $68 I would have a rough time justifying it myself.


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## Donz

I paid $49 CDN per 36lb of Lodi Cab this year. Some of the nicest I have seen though.


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> That's an excellent price almost half of what we get for premium fruit. Will anyone be home punching down the cap while your away. Mine have been forming overnight.



It is a good price, I was hoping a group of you all could have gotten together to put in a sizable order with them and had your own order or at least piggybacked a few together. 

Fruit will start out at 34F and probably be in the high 40's, low 50s after crushing, that kinda slows it down a bit until it hits room temps. I'll be back in town on Saturday evening or Sunday morning, it'll be fine til then.


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## askins3097

That is a good price. I wish I could find something like that. Cab grapes are around $60/lug here in Pittsburgh. 6 gallons of juice is around $60 too. I’m going to mix 3 juice buckets with a lug of crushed grapes. As much as I’d like to go all grapes I just can’t justify that price. It’d be close to $200 for a finished 6 gallon carboy after I added the cost of oak and the other odds and ends.


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## mainshipfred

askins3097 said:


> That is a good price. I wish I could find something like that. Cab grapes are around $60/lug here in Pittsburgh. 6 gallons of juice is around $60 too. I’m going to mix 3 juice buckets with a lug of crushed grapes. As much as I’d like to go all grapes I just can’t justify that price. It’d be close to $200 for a finished 6 gallon carboy after I added the cost of oak and the other odds and ends.



I don't know what premium kits go for nowadays but I bet it's close to that $200.00.


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## Ajmassa

$29 per lug? Excuse me while I go puke !

Maybe I should just tell wifey that’s what mine are costing too. Double that and we’re starting to get close! (Full disclosure: I’m lucky enough to a have a lot of options for an east coaster. And already did a ~$1per lb batch this season. The high priced grape batch is my own choice)

Similar timeline for me as well. I called up my supplier early this morning and the Cab clone#8 from Paso Robles has been harvested and allegedly shipped! Eff yeah!
They were expecting them in today or tomorrow. Will be sitting pretty in the reefer room till I pickup on Saturday morning. Not able to get any early numbers tho. Very anxious 
When I looked into the piggyback route it was definitely not just black and white. Each order is unique And everything is negotiable. Did you split the extra costs with the winery? IIRC it woulda been another $500-$600 to split.


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## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> $29 per lug? Excuse me while I go puke !
> 
> Maybe I should just tell wifey that’s what mine are costing too. Double that and we’re starting to get close! (Full disclosure: I’m lucky enough to a have a lot of options for an east coaster. And already did a ~$1per lb batch this season. The high priced grape batch is my own choice)
> 
> Similar timeline for me as well. I called up my supplier early this morning and the Cab clone#8 from Paso Robles has been harvested and allegedly shipped! Eff yeah!
> They were expecting them in today or tomorrow. Will be sitting pretty in the reefer room till I pickup on Saturday morning. Not able to get any early numbers tho. Very anxious
> When I looked into the piggyback route it was definitely not just black and white. Each order is unique And everything is negotiable. Did you split the extra costs with the winery? IIRC it woulda been another $500-$600 to split.



Colavita told me that if he were shipping to me, it’d be about $10 / lug, so I’m going to offer the guy that owns the winery the same to help defray his shipping costs, $39 / lug wouldn’t be bad either. I’d like to be more than just the dude whose grapes got stuck into his truck. They make a lot of wine from grapes they grow as well as the ones they bring in, I’m looking forward to meeting him and seeing his operation. His winery used to be 10 miles from me, but Katrina caused him to relocate north, I’ll probably buy some wine from him as well. He’s been buying from Colavita for years and loves their fruit, speaks very highly of their operation. 

He was telling me about a new grape he’s growing called ???????? Cabernet or Cabernet ????????? (Didn’t get the whole name) that does well down here in the south with all of our issues, but reportedly makes great wine, no crop from his 2 yo vines yet, but I’m intrigued.


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## sour_grapes

Johnd said:


> He was telling me about a new grape he’s growing called ???????? Cabernet or Cabernet ????????? (Didn’t get the whole name) that does well down here in the south with all of our issues, but reportedly makes great wine, no crop from his 2 yo vines yet, but I’m intrigued.



My guess is "Crimson Cabernet." This is a hybrid; however, I have always seen this touted in the context of the Midwest, not the South.

Inquiring minds....


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## Johnd

sour_grapes said:


> My guess is "Crimson Cabernet." This is a hybrid; however, I have always seen this touted in the context of the Midwest, not the South.
> 
> Inquiring minds....



Yep, me too. I’ll find out soon enough, did a bunch of surfing tonight to find the variety, but didn’t come up with much else either.


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## NorCal

Good luck with the crush and remember, no pics, it didn’t happen.


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## Chris Johnson

I drove up and got some Cab from Lodi a couple of weeks ago. It’s been such a great year that not many dropped any crop. I had 25 brix and the worst case of bell pepper I’ve dealt with to date. I could taste it at crush. I reached out to a few others and they feel the pyrazines are related to the over crop with ideal weather. I’d recommend having something like FT Rouge on hand if you taste some spice in the juice. Best of luck.


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## Johnd

NorCal said:


> Good luck with the crush and remember, no pics, it didn’t happen.



We’re planning a photo session, and will crush some grapes in the process.


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## joeybudd

askins3097 said:


> That is a good price. I wish I could find something like that. Cab grapes are around $60/lug here in Pittsburgh. 6 gallons of juice is around $60 too. I’m going to mix 3 juice buckets with a lug of crushed grapes. As much as I’d like to go all grapes I just can’t justify that price. It’d be close to $200 for a finished 6 gallon carboy after I added the cost of oak and the other odds and ends.



Have you tried Jay at Sunfresh? He is cheaper than Consumer on most. I only paid $41 for cab grapes form Jay.


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## Ajmassa

Chris Johnson said:


> I drove up and got some Cab from Lodi a couple of weeks ago. It’s been such a great year that not many dropped any crop. I had 25 brix and the worst case of bell pepper I’ve dealt with to date. I could taste it at crush. I reached out to a few others and they feel the pyrazines are related to the over crop with ideal weather. I’d recommend having something like FT Rouge on hand if you taste some spice in the juice. Best of luck.



Interesting. Read a lot of different accounts from this year’s harvest and this is the first time hearing anything about cases of bell pepper aroma. Did the few others you reached out to all get their grapes from same vineyard or surrounding areas? Just Lodi? All over?


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## askins3097

joeybudd said:


> Have you tried Jay at Sunfresh? He is cheaper than Consumer on most. I only paid $41 for cab grapes form Jay.



I have not. Never heard of Sunfresh. I thought since Premier Produce closed a while back it was just Consumers left. I did hear there was a warehouse place in Uniontown too. I’ll look up Sunfresh tho. Thanks!


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## Chris Johnson

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Interesting. Read a lot of different accounts from this year’s harvest and this is the first time hearing anything about cases of bell pepper aroma. Did the few others you reached out to all get their grapes from same vineyard or surrounding areas? Just Lodi? All over?



I’ve heard it from where I got my grapes in Clements Hills and also in a Mokelumne vineyard in Lodi. I bought mine from a vineyard that was getting ready to be harvested by Gallo a couple of days later. I think we’ll be able to get it under control.


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## Johnd

All systems are go, reefer truck due into the winery in the wee hours of Thursday morning, I’ll be on the road to arrive at 8 to get my loot. Back home after lunch, should be C/D’d and cleaned up before dinner. 

Talking with Jeff (owner) today, he said “you should hook up with that other guy from COVINGTON (2 miles away from me) who’s coming to get his Colavita grapes tomorrow”. Coulda knocked me over with a feather. Got his number and called, my 1100 and his 500 are too much for either of our SUV’s, but found a fellow winemaker. Learned from his dad at age 10, does 500# Alicante Boucher every year, 19 - 20% ABV, slightly sweetened. 

Off to bed for me, gonna be an early day.


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## Johnd

30 lugs of Lodi Cab loaded and headed home!!!


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> 30 lugs of Lodi Cab loaded and headed home!!!
> View attachment 51584



It's just hard for me to believe you don't have a pick up. Would make thing a lot easier.


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> It's just hard for me to believe you don't have a pick up. Would make thing a lot easier.



I do have a pickup, 2018 Black Ford F-250 Diesel Crew Cab Platinum Edition. It’s quite nice, but the bed has no air conditioning, and it’s still hot here, 4 hours in a pickup on the interstate in the heat isn’t a good solution. My wife’s SUV with AC in the back.........winner!!!


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## Johnd

Whole gig went off without a hitch, 1100 # crushed, destemmed, in fermenters, all cleaned up in 4 hours, it was awesome to have @Scott Harbison here for the activities, tremendous asset for sure!!

BRIX 24 today, probably up a point tomorrow, no adjustments made. Lowered the pH down from 3.75 to 3.67 prior to fermentation’s, EX-V, BM4x4, and D254 on board. Headed to the property to move into the new camp!!!


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## Johnd

Wifeys driving since I’ve been on the road so much today, so I have a chance to expound a bit on our crush today. Scott and I had a pretty good system in place, sorting and crushing intermittently, 30 lugs is a lot. The fruit was really good, very small berries, plump, sweet, and tannic with nice brown seeds. A few of the lugs had a lot of leaf litter particles which were hard to remove, we were both a bit OCD about it, so we spent most of our time sorting. Kept the fruit in the SUV with the AC running to keep it cool. 

I’d underestimated the quantity of must space needed by about 20 gallons, so we filled the 4 big fermenters along with two half full 25’s. Think I forgot to allow for cap space, but no big deal. 

New C/D was awesome, the plexishield worked like a charm to keep splatter in the chute, and easily raised up yo clean the trough. Cleanup was a breeze, 30 minutes with the pressure washer. Think we dit it all start to finish in 4 hours, not too shabby.


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## Scott Harbison

We had fun today! We did have a lot of grapes, so there was some work involved in getting them all crushed, but it was some beautiful fruit and I'm thankful to John for helping me learn! Here's some pictures of JohnD and his set up.


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## heatherd

askins3097 said:


> I have not. Never heard of Sunfresh. I thought since Premier Produce closed a while back it was just Consumers left. I did hear there was a warehouse place in Uniontown too. I’ll look up Sunfresh tho. Thanks!


Keystone Homebrew gets fresh grapes and juice, as well.


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## stickman

@Johnd The grapes do look good, the small berries provide a lot of skin.......


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## Ajmassa

Sorting suuuuuuuuuuuucks!

Especially workin solo. The bar of acceptance on the first few lugs ends up being MUCH different than the last few ..... for me. 
Sounds like you guys were all business today. Guess ya have to be with that many grapes. But made quick work of it. And I’m guessing learned a thing or 2 Scott. No better way to pop your cherry! I’m excited for ya. 
And John, finally decided to not keep your fermentors on the carpet I see. Probably for the best. Ya never know. 
So what’s the deal there Scott? Did you bring your 200lbs+ of must home or gonna let it ferment with the rest and break off your piece afterwards?
Both would have their benefits. I hope you brought it homer tho. Lots of bonding happens that first week. Like an expecting mother in the first trimester. I think that emotional attachment adds a little something to the approach.


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## CDrew

They got those grapes to you fast. I drove from Sacramento to Louisiana last February and it is a very long way. I'm actually impressed how fast they got there. It took me 3 days driving as much as I could stand.

Looks like fun. Is it too hot to ferment in the garage? Nice your wife lets you move fermenters inside.

Curious too about other aspects of your start. The tape suggests you pitched the yeast already. Did you use any enzymes or other additions?

The extra tall crusher/destemmer and wheeled fermenters looks bueno. Looking forward to press pics a week from now.


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## Scott Harbison

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Sorting suuuuuuuuuuuucks!
> 
> Especially workin solo. The bar of acceptance on the first few lugs ends up being MUCH different than the last few ..... for me.
> Sounds like you guys were all business today. Guess ya have to be with that many grapes. But made quick work of it. And I’m guessing learned a thing or 2 Scott. No better way to pop your cherry! I’m excited for ya.
> And John, finally decided to not keep your fermentors on the carpet I see. Probably for the best. Ya never know.
> So what’s the deal there Scott? Did you bring your 200lbs+ of must home or gonna let it ferment with the rest and break off your piece afterwards?
> Both would have their benefits. I hope you brought it homer tho. Lots of bonding happens that first week. Like an expecting mother in the first trimester. I think that emotional attachment adds a little something to the approach.


You're spot on about the acceptance rate! We were picking out every little leaf we saw at the start....not so much about half way through! 
I didn't take my must with me. JohnD has a 60 gallon barrel he's going to use for this batch and he may need some of my wine to make certain that barrel is full! So, I'm happy to let my wine stay with John. I'll stay as involved as possible as we move through the process.


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## Ajmassa

That’s great. Glad everything worked out so well. And at least now you have an excuse to get to together again for certain things. Pressing, racking into the barrel, maybe a chromatography test, barrel tastings, and of course bottling——- in 2 years! By then you’ll be pro. Good luck


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## Boatboy24

I'm finding that a lot of my 'sorting' happens AFTER the crush - I just pick out leaves during punchdowns. 

I'll pull some raisined clusters prior, but to really do a good pass takes a lot of time and I'm not sure how much of an impact it really has.


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## mainshipfred

Scott Harbison said:


> You're spot on about the acceptance rate! We were picking out every little leaf we saw at the start....not so much about half way through!
> I didn't take my must with me. JohnD has a 60 gallon barrel he's going to use for this batch and he may need some of my wine to make certain that barrel is full! So, I'm happy to let my wine stay with John. I'll stay as involved as possible as we move through the process.



Well you did better then me if you got half way though with 30 lugs. I normally stop after the 3 or 4. BTW, tell John he needs sides on his sorting table.


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## Scott Harbison

mainshipfred said:


> Well you did better then me if you got half way though with 30 lugs. I normally stop after the 3 or 4. BTW, tell John he needs sides on his sorting table.



The sides would have been a good idea. We did have a few grapes jump off the table. But John's set up worked pretty well!


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## Johnd

Yup, sides on the table next year, like a crawfish sorting table, will be an addition.

Wife doesn’t mind the fermenters in th house, it only last about a week til pressing, another few weeks in carboy til MLF is done, then it all goes into the wine room.

As for the carpet, decided to remove some of the fodder for torment!!

Seriously though, we really did do well, and Scott was a blessing to have as a partner in crime.

We did do some minor acid adjustments and pitched yeast, I left for my next project at the property an hour after Scott and I finished up.

Now. Kicking back in the new digs at the property, first night in the new camp, bout to fix my third 20 oz. Crown and Diet Sprite, looking forward to some good sleep and a return on Sunday to some healthy caps.


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## Johnd

Back home around noon today to find some caps starting to form, still some of that bready, white yeasty sludge on top of the grapes, went ahead and gave all of the fermenters a punchdown. The color change from pitching to first punch was very significant, the EX-V has been doing its thing while I was away. The must was pretty chilly when we pitched, grapes came off of the truck at 34F, and felt to be in the 40’s as we were sorting and the fermenters had condensation on them before I left. I suspect it was 24+ hours before the temps got up into the 70’s, maybe a bit slower start than anticipated, but nothing wrong with a little chilled soaking time.

Won’t mess with them for the next few hours, @Scott Harbison will be over later to participate in the MLB inoculation process, he’ll get the honors of the next punchdown. We’ll be hitting the must with it’s first dose of Fermaid as well.


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## Johnd

@Scott Harbison enjoying his first punchdown. We fed the yeast it’s first dose of Fermaid K, then rehydrated the VP-41 with Acti-ML in 250 ml chlorine free water, divided it up and mixed it in. Followed up with dose 1 of Opti’Malo nutrients for the MLB. A good day in the winemaking world.

Edit: As we were wrapping up, decided to pull a little juice and do a quick SG measurement. Refractometer reading Thursday at crush was 24 BRIX, which we figured would rise to 25 BRIX the following day as the grapes gave up their goods. Today, our hydrometer reading was 1.110, very close to 26 BRIX, which tells a couple tales. Fermentation is just getting started, so the cold must slowed things down a bit. The BRIX did increase as expected after the initial reading. Took a refractometer reading after Scott left, 25 BRIX. The refractometer and hydrometer are readin 1 BRIX apart, as was noted in another thread.


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## CDrew

Looks like fun! I would have been antsy all weekend and wondering what's happening.

Tech question: What made you use EX-V vs the regular EX? I used both this year, and could not tell a huge difference between them.

With that said, the difference using the enzymes vs no enzymes is HUGE. Much better color and flavor in the wine even at 2 weeks old.

And what was the SG after your weekend away? Curious how far it got on it's own.


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## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Looks like fun! I would have been antsy all weekend and wondering what's happening.
> 
> Tech question: What made you use EX-V vs the regular EX? I used both this year, and could not tell a huge difference between them.
> 
> With that said, the difference using the enzymes vs no enzymes is HUGE. Much better color and flavor in the wine even at 2 weeks old.
> 
> And what was the SG after your weekend away? Curious how far it got on it's own.



EX-V is purported to be better for high body / tannin wines intended to be aged for longer periods of time. 

Check my edit on the last post for SG / BRIX readings.


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## Scott Harbison

Thanks for another day of education @Johnd I'm enjoying the process and learning along the way!


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## Donz

John your Cab looks identical to mine this year. Nice fruit!


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## Johnd

Donz said:


> John your Cab looks identical to mine this year. Nice fruit!View attachment 51663



Yup, really nice clusters, small berries, it was in great shape, yours looks the same, where’d it come from?


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## Donz

Same bud. Lodi grapes in Uva di Collina lugs. 

It’s been a week since press and already tastes nice, MLF done.


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## CK55

Those are Nice Grapes DONZ, Ive never gotten into Cab Sav based wines idk I just cant find one that I like.


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## Johnd

Pretty good winemaking day today, wine is down to 1.040 or so, BM 4x4 slightly ahead of the D254, but not appreciably. The caps have been tremendous, a foot thick and reforming in a few minutes after punchdown. Temps in the 4 large vessels was at 87 F today, 85 F on the smaller, would have liked to get a tad higher spike, but everything looks and smells wonderfully. Hit the vessels with their last dose of nutrients, might coax a little more heat out before sugar starts getting scarce, should be racing up to 1.000 pretty quickly.

@Scott Harbison and I have scheduled our pressing for Friday morning, just hoping we have some decent caps to work with pumping the free run out.

60 gallon Alain Fouquet barrel showed up today, I’m dying to unwrap and check it out, but it’s better served in its packaging for a few more weeks. It’s big, (25 gallon fermenter next to it) but will fit through the door into the wine room, and I’ll make a stand with casters before it goes in and gets loaded.


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## Boatboy24

That's a big-ass barrel.


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## Donz

Nice barrel John. Curious to know the difference you get from the D254 to the BM4x4 - Nose, taste etc. I stuck with BM only for this years Cab.


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## stickman

Yea, John is shifting into high gear with that barrel!


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## Johnd

Donz said:


> Nice barrel John. Curious to know the difference you get from the D254 to the BM4x4 - Nose, taste etc. I stuck with BM only for this years Cab.



Me too, I'm sure we'll do a little sipping at press time, and then again before it all goes into the barrel. After that, it'll all be lost in the mix, as they get blended to fill up the barrel. Hoping that the two yeasts will add some complexity to the whole blend........... 



stickman said:


> Yea, John is shifting into high gear with that barrel!



It was a little stretch, both going to 60 gallons, as well as the Alain Fouquet branded barrel. I really wanted to make wine like the "big boys", using big barrels and years of barrel aging. I tasted identical wine out of a number of different barrels in Napa last year, and really was impressed with the taste of the wine in the Alain Fouquet, so I ordered the identical barrel. Hope it works out...................


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## Johnd

Fermentation and punchdown have been smooth sailing so far. Scott and I have decided to postpone our pressing activities for a few days, some time issues with tomorrow, still getting great caps, and we’ve got a cool front coming through and highs will be around 70 on Sunday. Looking forward to my first outside press and the easy pressure washer cleanup that goes hand in hand.


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## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> Fermentation and punchdown have been smooth sailing so far. Scott and I have decided to postpone our pressing activities for a few days, some time issues with tomorrow, still getting great caps, and we’ve got a cool front coming through and highs will be around 70 on Sunday. Looking forward to my first outside press and the easy pressure washer cleanup that goes hand in hand.



Sounds like things are working out great down there. What’s your SG’s looking like? And when do you plan on stopping the punchdowns?


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## CK55

Johnd said:


> Fermentation and punchdown have been smooth sailing so far. Scott and I have decided to postpone our pressing activities for a few days, some time issues with tomorrow, still getting great caps, and we’ve got a cool front coming through and highs will be around 70 on Sunday. Looking forward to my first outside press and the easy pressure washer cleanup that goes hand in hand.


Your wine will be great , although BM 4x4 yeast has consistently given me problems hopefully it works out for you. My last batch even with the right amount of nutrients and doing everything as you should was loaded with Way too much Hydrogen Sulfide.


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## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Sounds like things are working out great down there. What’s your SG’s looking like? And when do you plan on stopping the punchdowns?



Haven’t taken a reading in a few days, caps are less vigorous this morning, so it’s getting close. Probably take a reading when harvesting free run. As long as I get caps, they’ll get punched.


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## Johnd

CK55 said:


> Your wine will be great , although BM 4x4 yeast has consistently given me problems hopefully it works out for you. My last batch even with the right amount of nutrients and doing everything as you should was loaded with Way too much Hydrogen Sulfide.



Historically, the vast majority of my ferments have been with BM 4x4, guess I’m just lucky, but I’ve never had an H2S problem with it. No special handling, just a solid nutrient protocol.


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## Donz

CK55 said:


> Your wine will be great , although BM 4x4 yeast has consistently given me problems hopefully it works out for you. My last batch even with the right amount of nutrients and doing everything as you should was loaded with Way too much Hydrogen Sulfide.



I too have done fermentations for the last 4 years with BM4x4 and zero problems. I actually think it is one of the most reliable strains out there.


----------



## sour_grapes

And I have used BM45, which is the reputedly problematic half of the composite BM4x4, a half-dozen times with no ill results.


----------



## Boatboy24

Another plug for BM4X4. I've used Bm45 a few times as well (early on in my winemaking), but now that 4X4 is easily available, I haven't used 45 in a while.


----------



## Raftsman Reserve

Hey guys,
I fermented 180L of must, california cabernet with BM4x4 and used Fermaid-O as prescribed by Morewine! in two doses (which equalled to much more than the recommended total dose by Fermaid, BTW) and the fermentation smelled GREAT until the halfway point, at which point the sulphur stink was king for the rest of the ferment, lots of SO2 bad smell everywhere. Splash racked it afterwards after the press and all, and it is now seemingly in good shape, BUT, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY happened in order for this highly touted BM4X4 yeast to produce such rotten egg smell...??


----------



## Ajmassa

Raftsman Reserve said:


> Hey guys,
> I fermented 180L of must, california cabernet with BM4x4 and used Fermaid-O as prescribed by Morewine! in two doses (which equalled to much more than the recommended total dose by Fermaid, BTW) and the fermentation smelled GREAT until the halfway point, at which point the sulphur stink was king for the rest of the ferment, lots of SO2 bad smell everywhere. Splash racked it afterwards after the press and all, and it is now seemingly in good shape, BUT, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY happened in order for this highly touted BM4X4 yeast to produce such rotten egg smell...??



Are you CK in disguise? Lol


----------



## CK55

Donz said:


> I too have done fermentations for the last 4 years with BM4x4 and zero problems. I actually think it is one of the most reliable strains out there.


For me I just have hit or miss it always gives me issues but some wines turn out okay others turn out a mess.


----------



## Johnd

Raftsman Reserve said:


> Hey guys,
> I fermented 180L of must, california cabernet with BM4x4 and used Fermaid-O as prescribed by Morewine! in two doses (which equalled to much more than the recommended total dose by Fermaid, BTW) and the fermentation smelled GREAT until the halfway point, at which point the sulphur stink was king for the rest of the ferment, lots of SO2 bad smell everywhere. Splash racked it afterwards after the press and all, and it is now seemingly in good shape, BUT, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY happened in order for this highly touted BM4X4 yeast to produce such rotten egg smell...??



Fermaid O, in my opinion, is not the proper tool for the job, Fermaid K is what I’ve succeeded with.


----------



## Ajmassa

All FermO with BM4x4 might be the cause like John said. It lacks the balls that K has. That’s why dosage calls for an extra 50%. 
I used it on the 2nd dose for the 1st time. But on a yeast that’s certainly not nutrient needy. Probably coulda not added it at all and been cool. 
I swear to god these manufacturers are trying to have us fear DAP products intentionally! - when certain occasions it’s probably very beneficial.


----------



## Raftsman Reserve

Oh, I see. The Morewine! guide calls for Fermaid-0 for dose 1, then Fermaid-K for dose 2. But, I thought somebody out here was saying that DAP should only be added early on, not at the second dose... And, secondly, I guess what you're saying is that the cause of SO2 during fermentation is due to a lack of nutrients...? Thanks guys!


----------



## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> Fermaid O, in my opinion, is not the proper tool for the job, Fermaid K is what I’ve succeeded with.



Hmm. I use O.


----------



## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> Hmm. I use O.



Well Jim, you know what they say about opinions...... if it’s working for you and your wine processes, why second guess it? For mine, I believe that my high temp red fermentations are pretty demanding of the yeast, perhaps requiring more pop from the nutrients, and I suspect that the little white specks in Fermaid K are DAP, though I don’t know that for a fact.


----------



## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> Well Jim, you know what they say about opinions...... if it’s working for you and your wine processes, why second guess it? For mine, I believe that my high temp red fermentations are pretty demanding of the yeast, perhaps requiring more pop from the nutrients, and I suspect that the little white specks in Fermaid K are DAP, though I don’t know that for a fact.



I'm going to have to try and experiment next time around. Who knows, I may be getting some WA Merlot courtesy of @mainshipfred on Monday - maybe I should split the batch.


----------



## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm going to have to try and experiment next time around. Who knows, I may be getting some WA Merlot courtesy of @mainshipfred on Monday - maybe I should split the batch.



Saw you two conspiring for another round, looks like a pretty good opportunity at some nice fruit. Interesting experiment to split a batch and try different nutrients, so many variables and so little time.


----------



## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> Saw you two conspiring for another round, looks like a pretty good opportunity at some nice fruit. Interesting experiment to split a batch and try different nutrients, so many variables and so little time.



Yeah, I talked more with Fred about it on Thursday and am pretty fired up. The winery that he's working with is referring to it as 'Ultra Premium' fruit. Not cheap, but not too bad - specially when they are only about 5 miles from my house.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm going to have to try and experiment next time around. Who knows, I may be getting some WA Merlot courtesy of @mainshipfred on Monday - maybe I should split the batch.



Split the batch, I never heard of that. LOL! Except for a Sauv Blanc split in 2 my last 10+ batches have been split in 3rds. But that was for yeast not nutrients.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Split the batch, I never heard of that. LOL! Except for a Sauv Blanc split in 2 my last 10+ batches have been split in 3rds. But that was for yeast not nutrients.



Yep, I think you’re the king of batch-splitters!! Guess I’m currently doing a “split batch” since I’m fermenting separately with two different yeasts, though it’s over a half ton of grapes...


----------



## Johnd

2018 press day is now in the rear view mirror, @Scott Harbison and I did the honors today, noon to 6 from cleaning the first carboy to the last speck of cleanup. One of my childhood buddies (who recently made a wine off of the internet called “Jailhouse Hooch) stopped by and was a big help. We pretty much finished up where expected with 13 - 6 gallon carboys and one 3 gallon, totaling 81 gallons of Lodi Cab. Bout half and half free run and press wine.

Caps were pretty weak as we went 10 days, but this was the best press I’ve had to date, easy on the EX-V and small, thick skinned berries left the skins relatively intact, and very little sludgy mess. Smells, tastes and color from both yeasts was excellent, though the wine is quite tannic, as expected. We broke up every cake after pressing, and pressed it again, picking up several gallons of press run. We debated a bit, but I feel that the color of the D254 was much more deep purple than the BM 4x4, more on that later I suppose. 

Off the gross lees a little later this week, and will do the first chromatography test a few weeks later.


----------



## CDrew

Interesting. So you're doing carboys and then heading into the barrel after racking off the gross lees? That's a lot of carboys and a lot of evident work.

After the Lallzyme, I noted a higher proportion of free run and an easier press.

I like the glass fermentation locks. Those look old school but great. Source?


----------



## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Interesting. So you're doing carboys and then heading into the barrel after racking off the gross lees? That's a lot of carboys and a lot of evident work.
> 
> After the Lallzyme, I noted a higher proportion of free run and an easier press.
> 
> I like the glass fermentation locks. Those look old school but great. Source?



Well, not quite that quickly. In carboys today, off the gross lees later this week, still in carboys til MLF is complete. When it’s done, the carboys will move to the wine room for a bit to chill and drop some more sediment, then into the barrel. 

Truth be told, the free run is strictly what we pumped out of the fermentation vessels before going to the press. Once we started loading the press, the wine that ran out freely, was collected with the press wine and labeled as press wine. No real big deal, as the free and press wine from both yeasts will ultimately end up in the barrel together. 

My local HBS had the glass air locks and I bought em all, he reordered more for me and wasn’t able to completely fill the order, as the supplier no longer produced them. I’ve had em for several years, never really looked for any more. I like that you can really see the slightest activity, there’s almost none to speak of, though all of the carboys have positive pressure in them. Friends who see the wine stored on the house at this stage refer to it as my meth lab.....


----------



## Ajmassa

Great update John. I ended up pressing today too and felt like I was reading my own account. 
-I pressed then broke up the entire cake and re-pressed for the 1st time. Press was filled to the top. Had to use the damn garden tiller!
-had much less free run than normal. 
-went a little light on the EX V. And my berries were also tight and small. A large portion were not broken at crush. The end result was similarot the typical mush I’m used to when using lallzyme. 
-the difference was I had no help! So much work. I think Im takin a long break till next fall. 
Congrats on another successful winemaking season!


----------



## cmason1957

John, can you taste much of a difference between the free run and the press?


----------



## Johnd

cmason1957 said:


> John, can you taste much of a difference between the free run and the press?



At the time of collection, absolutely. After a few weeks of sitting, going through MLF, and racking off of the gross lees, yes, but not profoundly so. I’ve got two 2017 cabs right now in two 6 gallon vadai barrels, one free, one press, a year old, can’t tell em apart by taste.


----------



## Donz

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Are you CK in disguise? Lol



LOL!!!!!!


----------



## Johnd

Been quite surprised to see absolutely no activity in the airlock, but not concerned, just assuming that fermentation completed before pressing. Decided to do some random hydrometer testing last night, every carboy checked was at .994 / .995, suspicion confirmed. 

Since we vacuum racked into the carboys, a lot of CO2 was pulled out, the sediment has really dropped out quite quickly, will rack off in a couple days, feed the MLB, and button everything up for a few more weeks.


----------



## Johnd

Racked off of the gross lees this evening, started with 81 gallons and finished up with 78. Not too bad, didn’t get every single ounce of wine, but not much sediment either. Good to get that done, on easy street now just letting MLF complete.


----------



## CDrew

When does it go into the barrel?

It sounds like your losses were minimal. 4% roughly. That's got to be better than usual.

Most important, how did it taste?

Congrats.


----------



## Johnd

CDrew said:


> When does it go into the barrel?
> 
> It sounds like your losses were minimal. 4% roughly. That's got to be better than usual.
> 
> Most important, how did it taste?
> 
> Congrats.



Once it gets through MLF, and then about a month in the wine room, it’ll go into the barrel. Normally get them in there between Thanksgiving and Christmas, this year should be the same. 

Loss for lees wasn’t bad at all, my setup utilizes some pretty fine screening, so really just the suspended sediment gets through. I’d hardly call them gross lees, but there is some grape matter present as well. No complaints. 

I did have enough to taste, it wasn’t bad at all. Nice fruity nose and taste, alcohol nicely present, color is really good. It’s still got all of those funky new wine tastes as expected, nice mouthfeel, and plenty tannins present. By the time it comes out of the barrel, I’ll be expecting a nice fruity Cab with good body, and still in need of a little bottle aging before it’s ready for prime time.


----------



## Johnd

Pressed the 2018 Cab 9 days ago, racked off of the gross lees 5 days ago, really haven’t been seeing much indication of MLF activity in the carboys. Started to get a sneaky suspicion, which was confirmed today, by a sampling of 9 of the 14 carboys, it’s pretty much done. The three on the right are BM 4x4, and still look to have a hint of malic left as compared to the D254 samples. Probably a result of 4x4’s less optimum environment, but certainly no cause for pause. I’ll probably let them sit another month and head into the wine room / barrel in early December, my traditional barrel loading timing.


----------



## Donz

How come you wait so long before putting it in the barrel? I rack off the gross lees and then straight into my barrels.


----------



## Boatboy24

Donz said:


> How come you wait so long before putting it in the barrel? I rack off the gross lees and then straight into my barrels.



I won't answer for John, but can relay my own logic. I know that most commercial operations do as you do, and go straight in. I prefer to have MLF complete and the wine stabilized with sulfite, as well as relatively clear to keep sediment out of the barrel. Commercial guys probably use barrels for a year or two, then move on. My oldest barrel has been in service going on 6 years now, so anything I can do to limit the pores/grain 'clogging' up is welcome.


----------



## Donz

MLF is complete and so2 added when I barrel as well. 

Guess you have a point though allowing less sediment in the barrel if you let it sit longer before barreling.


----------



## Johnd

Donz said:


> How come you wait so long before putting it in the barrel? I rack off the gross lees and then straight into my barrels.



Several reasons:

1. My barrels live in my wine room at 55F, bad environment for MLB, in carboys they're in the house at 74F
2. Like to let the wine drop some more sediment before going into the barrel.
3. I always wait two weeks after the chromotography test shows clear to ensure that the MLB has eaten every last bit of malic that it can.
4. It's always close to opening day of deer season and then Thanksgiving when MLF is complete, and I'm not messing around with wine barreling until December


----------



## sdelli

Johnd said:


> Pretty good winemaking day today, wine is down to 1.040 or so, BM 4x4 slightly ahead of the D254, but not appreciably. The caps have been tremendous, a foot thick and reforming in a few minutes after punchdown. Temps in the 4 large vessels was at 87 F today, 85 F on the smaller, would have liked to get a tad higher spike, but everything looks and smells wonderfully. Hit the vessels with their last dose of nutrients, might coax a little more heat out before sugar starts getting scarce, should be racing up to 1.000 pretty quickly.
> 
> @Scott Harbison and I have scheduled our pressing for Friday morning, just hoping we have some decent caps to work with pumping the free run out.
> 
> 60 gallon Alain Fouquet barrel showed up today, I’m dying to unwrap and check it out, but it’s better served in its packaging for a few more weeks. It’s big, (25 gallon fermenter next to it) but will fit through the door into the wine room, and I’ll make a stand with casters before it goes in and gets loaded.
> 
> View attachment 51816



Old post so it ended up working out for you. But gutsy move taking the yeast to 87 degrees with lids on. No oxygen and the yeast is rated at 82.


----------



## sdelli

Johnd said:


> Fermaid O, in my opinion, is not the proper tool for the job, Fermaid K is what I’ve succeeded with.



Both the same.... One organic and the other not.


----------



## Johnd

sdelli said:


> Old post so it ended up working out for you. But gutsy move taking the yeast to 87 degrees with lids on. No oxygen and the yeast is rated at 82.



87 was pretty comfy this year, I’ve been into the low 90’s for nearly a day in the past, just gotta pay attention to what’s going on and be ready to act. I’ve always read about pushing temps and have been doing so, figured that if we rehydrate yeast at 109, some 90’s shouldn’t be a deal breaker with a good nutrient protocol. So far, no issues.


----------



## Johnd

sdelli said:


> Both the same.... One organic and the other not.



Technically speaking, they are except that in O, the DAP has been replaced with an organic nitrogen source. That, however is a difference, and why K is more appropriate in some situations, particularly when a “ready to roll” nitrogen source is needed. It’s also why O is more appropriate late in an AF when nitrogen sources like DAP aren’t the right call. My opinion is that because of these differences, they aren’t the same........


----------



## sdelli

I am sure the yeast will live through it... My worry is h2s with high temps and no oxygen.


----------



## Johnd

Just have to be on top of the conditions, as long as the yeast has what it needs, no stress, no H2S.


----------



## stickman

John I like that one, "no stress, no H2S".


----------



## ibglowin

Put that on the package. No stress, no H2S!


----------



## Johnd

Finally got the time to build the mobile barrel stand, unpackage the barrel, and get it situated. Looks like it’s going to work out well. It’s very attractive, really big, and ready to gobble up some carboys. Maybe I’ll get to it this week / weekend.


----------



## stickman

John, your wine gets to sit and relax in some fine furniture.


----------



## CDrew

How do you plan to fill it? Pump, vacuum or other?

I'll also be curious to see how you work out the top off.


----------



## Johnd

CDrew said:


> How do you plan to fill it? Pump, vacuum or other?
> 
> I'll also be curious to see how you work out the top off.



Plan is to just roll the barrel (empty) into the wine room after I've completed barrel prep and it's ready for wine. I'll just move the wine into the wine room and set the carboys on the counter and take my time racking off of the accumulated sediment using my racking cane with sediment tip and clear tubing. I'll also be sulfiting the wine in the barrel at the same time. 

As for the topping off, just planning to use my normal process. The wine is currently in ten (10) six gallon carboys, so planning for that 60 gallons to fill the 60 gallon barrel, plus there's another 5 gallons (3 gallon carboy and two one gallon jugs. I'll rack the leftover wine into a 6 gallon carboy, sulfite it, and vacuum degas it after the barrel is loaded. That leftover wine will be bottled and corked and then used for topping off during the next two years. Not sure if it'll be enough, but have lots of other fresh grape cab wines to use if it isn't sufficient.


----------



## Johnd

It's been 5 or 6 weeks since the completed MLF chromo test and the wine has just been sitting and dropping some really fine sediment, and hadn't been sulfited, so I decided it was time to hit it with some sulfite last night. Wasn't really feeling into the racking and subsequently cleaning all of those carboys, so I pushed the easy button on the sulfite addition, knowing that I'll be racking off of the sediment and into the barrel shortly. Using a thief, pulled a few hundred ml out of a carboy, added 1/4 tsp to the wine, completely dissolved it using the auto stirrer, and dumped it back into the carboy, topping up each carboy as I went. 

Didn't do any taste testing yet, but the aroma from each carboy was very nice. I may rinse and soak the barrel with steaming hot water this evening and go ahead and get it loaded up if time permits, as I really need to get it done and move on to emptying / bottling the other barrels in the wine room. By late winter / early spring, I'll finally be down to just the 17's in the 30 gallon barrel and the 18's in the 60 gallon barrel, and have several empty neutral barrels to figure out what to do with.


----------



## mainshipfred

and have several empty neutral barrels to figure out what to do with.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you have to start thinking about the southern hemisphere harvest. Or you could take that time to refurbish a couple barrels. My vote is both.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> and have several empty neutral barrels to figure out what to do with.
> 
> Sounds like you have to start thinking about the southern hemisphere harvest. Or you could take that time to refurbish a couple barrels. My vote is both.



Neither of those options fit into my plans to reduce my overproduction. None of these barrels will be put back into winemaking use by me, I'll stick to making one batch a year, either 30 or 60 gallon size. I'll be downsizing by three 6 gallon Vadai's and one 12 gallon Vadai.


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Neither of those options fit into my plans to reduce my overproduction. None of these barrels will be put back into winemaking use by me, I'll stick to making one batch a year, either 30 or 60 gallon size. I'll be downsizing by three 6 gallon Vadai's and one 12 gallon Vadai.



I know you make a lot of wine, but how many barrels do you have?


----------



## Johnd

@mainshipfred said: "I know you make a lot of wine, but how many barrels do you have?"

Four 6 gallon Vadai barrels, already gave one of them to @Scott Harbison for his Lodi Cab kit, so I have three left, and one 12 gallon Vadai, all will be emptied of their wines in the next few weeks. I will keep the 30 gallon frenchie with the 2017's in it, as well as the 60 with the 2018's, so down to two barrels, 30 and 60.


----------



## Donz

That is one beautiful looking barrel I must say!

John - is your Cab smelling and tasting extremely floral/fruity from the BM4x4 VP41 combo? Mine is big time. It's gonna need some time and oak to settle off the heavy floral fruity aromas.


----------



## Johnd

Donz said:


> That is one beautiful looking barrel I must say!
> 
> John - is your Cab smelling and tasting extremely floral/fruity from the BM4x4 VP41 combo? Mine is big time. It's gonna need some time and oak to settle off the heavy floral fruity aromas.



Thanks, looking forward to seeing how it works on the wine!!

I haven't tasted the wine yet, just smelled each carboy at the sulfiting a few nights ago, the aromas are very nice on both the BM 4x4 and D254, didn't really detect any differences between them, but was just sticking my nose above the opening in the carboys.


----------



## Johnd

So today was the big day, time to load the 18’s into the 60 gallon Alain Fouquet barrel, and not nearly the monumental task conjured up in my feeble mind over the last few weeks. 

First, barrel prep. Whipped out the crawfish pot and propane burner, boiled about 25 gallons of water, funneled 20 gallons into the barrel and hammered the bung in. Rolled it around a bit, stood it on both heads, filled the heads with the other 5 gallons of water, rolled it outside and dumped after a couple hours, man did that oaky water smell wonderful, hated to see it drain off...

Time to load. Rolled it into the wine room and moved the carboys in, and decided to just siphon, choosing gentle treatment over vacuum racking or pumping over with the Buon Vino. Good decision, the sediment was relatively firm and I just slid the autosiphon in til the anti-sediment tip rested on the bottom, didn’t get even a whisp of sediment. It was relaxing to watch it transfer and enjoy the aroma of the wine and smell of oaky air being displaced from the barrel. She took all 59 gallons like a champ, leaving me with an extra gallon, which I racked into a 6 along with the 3 and two 1’s left from last racking. Pretty tidy, and now I can justify keeping one of my neutral 6’s. 

Cleaned all 10 carboys and stored them, along with the 3 and 1’s combined with the leftovers, not too bad for a Sunday afternoon, sadly, there wasn’t even a smidge left to sample...... The barrel looks great, and the rolling stand is tops, came in handy today, and certainly in the future. Cheers!!!


----------



## Donz

Johnd said:


> So today was the big day, time to load the 18’s into the 60 gallon Alain Fouquet barrel, and not nearly the monumental task conjured up in my feeble mind over the last few weeks.
> 
> First, barrel prep. Whipped out the crawfish pot and propane burner, boiled about 25 gallons of water, funneled 20 gallons into the barrel and hammered the bung in. Rolled it around a bit, stood it on both heads, filled the heads with the other 5 gallons of water, rolled it outside and dumped after a couple hours, man did that oaky water smell wonderful, hated to see it drain off...
> 
> Time to load. Rolled it into the wine room and moved the carboys in, and decided to just siphon, choosing gentle treatment over vacuum racking or pumping over with the Buon Vino. Good decision, the sediment was relatively firm and I just slid the autosiphon in til the anti-sediment tip rested on the bottom, didn’t get even a whisp of sediment. It was relaxing to watch it transfer and enjoy the aroma of the wine and smell of oaky air being displaced from the barrel. She took all 59 gallons like a champ, leaving me with an extra gallon, which I racked into a 6 along with the 3 and two 1’s left from last racking. Pretty tidy, and now I can justify keeping one of my neutral 6’s.
> 
> Cleaned all 10 carboys and stored them, along with the 3 and 1’s combined with the leftovers, not too bad for a Sunday afternoon, sadly, there wasn’t even a smidge left to sample...... The barrel looks great, and the rolling stand is tops, came in handy today, and certainly in the future. Cheers!!!
> View attachment 52550
> View attachment 52551




Sounds like a great day! Looks awesome bud. Too bad no tasting.

You know it’s a serious barrel with 8 staves!


----------



## CDrew

Glad it went so well. The color looks great.

And, I would love to hear a tasting report! 2 years in the Barrel should make it pretty special.


----------



## sour_grapes

Johnd said:


> Cleaned all 10 carboys and stored them, along with the 3 and 1’s combined with the leftovers, not too bad for a Sunday afternoon, sadly, there wasn’t even a smidge left to sample......



So you totally needed to have bought 31 lugs... Hopefully you will remember next year! 

Sounds great.


----------



## Johnd

sour_grapes said:


> So you totally needed to have bought 31 lugs... Hopefully you will remember next year!
> 
> Sounds great.



Ha! That would surely have done it!! Thinking of just bottling the 6 gallons of leftovers, and using the bottles to do the topping up over the next 24 +/- months, and sneak some barrel samples along the way.....


----------



## sour_grapes

Johnd said:


> Ha! That would surely have done it!! Thinking of just bottling the 6 gallons of leftovers, and using the bottles to do the topping up over the next 24 +/- months, and sneak some barrel samples along the way.....



I love it when a plan comes together!


----------



## Ajmassa

@Johnd where did your acid levels end up? 
I’m a little concerned with my Paso Robles cab. It came in with high ph and only slightly tweaked it down to 3.7 to keep TA under 8–Going against my initial plan of adjusting to 3.6. I still need an updated Ta level- but PH sitting over 3.8 now. 
Not to keen on barreling a 3.8 wine. Did your Ph also creep back up after MLf?


----------



## Donz

John I noticed that you are using the regular barrel bung in the pic. You are not using an airlock at these beginning stages?


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> @Johnd where did your acid levels end up?
> I’m a little concerned with my Paso Robles cab. It came in with high ph and only slightly tweaked it down to 3.7 to keep TA under 8–Going against my initial plan of adjusting to 3.6. I still need an updated Ta level- but PH sitting over 3.8 now.
> Not to keen on barreling a 3.8 wine. Did your Ph also creep back up after MLf?



Didn't even check yesterday, figured let it sit in the barrel for a few months at 55 F to do any precipitating that it might choose to do at that temp. Some time in the next six months I'll check the pH and taste it, and maybe do some early bench trials to see if it needs any reductions. I'm not particularly afraid of higher pH wines when it comes to the big red grapes from CA, I know they can be managed with good sulfite protocol. The wines is sitting on a pretty good dose right now, after a 50 ppm dose last week and a little booster yesterday. I'll satisfy your curiosity (and mine now) by checking it sometime in the next couple days and posting it.


----------



## Johnd

Donz said:


> John I noticed that you are using the regular barrel bung in the pic. You are not using an airlock at these beginning stages?



No, I'm not. On both of my larger barrels (30 and 60), I just use the solid bung that they come with and hammer them firmly in place.


----------



## Donz

John, I noticed your bottles all have the plastic shrink tops on them. How do you apply them? Boiling water? Steam? I can never get them on perfectly.


----------



## Johnd

Donz said:


> John, I noticed your bottles all have the plastic shrink tops on them. How do you apply them? Boiling water? Steam? I can never get them on perfectly.



I have a charcoal lighter called a “LooftLighter”, which I use to shrink them on. It’s much like a heat gun / hairdryer combo, and works like a charm. https://www.looftlighter.com/en/home/ Does the job in seconds, no water, no wrinkles.


----------



## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> I have a charcoal lighter called a “LooftLighter”, which I use to shrink them on. It’s much like a heat gun / hairdryer combo, and works like a charm. https://www.looftlighter.com/en/home/ Does the job in seconds, no water, no wrinkles.



That's a pretty cool little toy. 

I use the boiling water. Simple, and the steam gives me one final chance to clean the outside of the bottles before applying the labels.


----------



## sour_grapes

Johnd said:


> I have a charcoal lighter called a “LooftLighter”, which I use to shrink them on. It’s much like a heat gun / hairdryer combo, and works like a charm. https://www.looftlighter.com/en/home/ Does the job in seconds, no water, no wrinkles.



Oh my goodness, I want one! Santa and his elves might have to hustle this year, since they previously had nothing to make for me.


----------



## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> That's a pretty cool little toy.
> 
> I use the boiling water. Simple, and the steam gives me one final chance to clean the outside of the bottles before applying the labels.





sour_grapes said:


> Oh my goodness, I want one! Santa and his elves might have to hustle this year, since they previously had nothing to make for me.



It’s pretty slick for sure, been using one for years, it’ll change the way you start your lump charcoal. Keep one up at the property for the Primo up there as well.


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## mainshipfred

That is really slick


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## Donz

Johnd said:


> I have a charcoal lighter called a “LooftLighter”, which I use to shrink them on. It’s much like a heat gun / hairdryer combo, and works like a charm. https://www.looftlighter.com/en/home/ Does the job in seconds, no water, no wrinkles.



would love to see a quick video of you doing a bottle with this gadget.


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## mainshipfred

Donz said:


> would love to see a quick video of you doing a bottle with this gadget.



$36.00 at Home Depot


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## Ajmassa

Donz said:


> would love to see a quick video of you doing a bottle with this gadget.



I’m thinking would be no different than using a heat gun. But a little tool you can DIY makes all the difference. Which is just a thick metal rod with an offset bend to be able to keep pressure down on the capsule as you shrink it.


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## sour_grapes

mainshipfred said:


> $36.00 at Home Depot



I couldn't find it at homedepot.com. Can you provide a link?


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## Johnd

sour_grapes said:


> I couldn't find it at homedepot.com. Can you provide a link?





mainshipfred said:


> $36.00 at Home Depot



Not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it’s not the Looftlighter, it's a knockoff. Here’s the link: https://www.homedepot.com/p/HomeRight-ElectroLight-Fire-Starter-C900046-M/206740534


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it’s not the Looftlighter, it's a knockoff. Here’s the link: https://www.homedepot.com/p/HomeRight-ElectroLight-Fire-Starter-C900046-M/206740534



You're right, it's not. I think yours has a bottle openner. Now we need to find one with a cork screw as well. LOL!


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## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> Not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it’s not the Looftlighter, it's a knockoff. Here’s the link: https://www.homedepot.com/p/HomeRight-ElectroLight-Fire-Starter-C900046-M/206740534



Or is the Looflighter the knockoff? Hmmm...


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## cmason1957

Here is the tool I have and use for opening bags and then, if I apply shrink wraps. They go into the J part of this tool, then into boiling water for a very short time.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064OKJ4S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> Or is the Looflighter the knockoff? Hmmm...



Looft was patented in 2010, got mine in 2011, never seen anything similar til now, so I suspect Looft is not the knockoff........


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## Ajmassa

cmason1957 said:


> Here is the tool I have and use for opening bags and then, if I apply shrink wraps. They go into the J part of this tool, then into boiling water for a very short time.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064OKJ4S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



That’s essentially the same tool I’m using too. I don’t have a pic handy, but same idea. But using a heat gun with bottles upright instead of boiling water and bottles upside down— so same tool (metal) with an extra 90° bend


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## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> That’s essentially the same tool I’m using too. I don’t have a pic handy, but same idea. But using a heat gun with bottles upright instead of boiling water and bottles upside down— so same tool (metal) with an extra 90° bend



When using the heat gun / Looft type device, you don't need that tool. Just set the capsule in place and hold the bottom of the capsule with your fingers while passing the heat stream over the top of the capsule this shrinks the top to the bottle top, quick spin of the bottle with your hands while directing the heat lower shrinks the bottom part in place. Takes maybe 5 or 6 seconds.


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## CDrew

I just use my heat gun, in the exact same way. Works great.

But that is a cool charcoal lighting device, and I'm going to get one! Thanks for pointing it out.


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## Johnd

Back on track with a quick update. After filling a barrel I typically check it after the first week, and that was today. Quite a surprise to see the levels so low, though I know new barrels gobble wine, it took nearly 1/2 gallon to top up tonight. Fortunately had the 1/2 gallon jug awaiting, suppose that I’ll have to bottle the 6 gallons for future toppings....


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## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> When using the heat gun / Looft type device, you don't need that tool. Just set the capsule in place and hold the bottom of the capsule with your fingers while passing the heat stream over the top of the capsule this shrinks the top to the bottle top, quick spin of the bottle with your hands while directing the heat lower shrinks the bottom part in place. Takes maybe 5 or 6 seconds.



Yea man. I know it’s not necessary. Just keeps my digits away from the heat gun. Really anything could be used simply to steady the cap. I just use a heavy gauge wire with some bends on it rather than my fingers. 
Btw— have you taken a ph reading recently on the cab?
And Merry Christmas!


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## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Yea man. I know it’s not necessary. Just keeps my digits away from the heat gun. Really anything could be used simply to steady the cap. I just use a heavy gauge wire with some bends on it rather than my fingers.
> Btw— have you taken a ph reading recently on the cab?
> And Merry Christmas!



No readings on the cab, maybe after the first of the year, I’ll be out of town at the ranch til then. Head procrastinator here......


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## Scott Harbison

@Johnd Glad everything is going well with the Cab! That barrel looks awesome! I'm done with my holiday travels, so I need to bring your carboys back! I'll hit you up on text in a few days to find a good time to drop them off.


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## ceeaton

Scott Harbison said:


> @Johnd Glad everything is going well with the Cab! That barrel looks awesome! I'm done with my holiday travels, so I need to bring your carboys back! I'll hit you up on text in a few days to find a good time to drop them off.


Scott, I think right now is the right time, he's got an awesome looking dinner on the table!


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## Scott Harbison

ceeaton said:


> Scott, I think right now is the right time, he's got an awesome looking dinner on the table!


HaHa!! That would be a good time! Plus, I bet he's pulling out a nice bottle from his collection to celebrate the new year! Hang on John, I'm heading over!


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## ceeaton

Scott Harbison said:


> HaHa!! That would be a good time! Plus, I bet he's pulling out a nice bottle from his collection to celebrate the new year! Hang on John, I'm heading over!


I think he described it as a Fat juicy Cab in another post. Let us know how it tasted!


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## Johnd

Scott Harbison said:


> @Johnd Glad everything is going well with the Cab! That barrel looks awesome! I'm done with my holiday travels, so I need to bring your carboys back! I'll hit you up on text in a few days to find a good time to drop them off.



I’ll be home most of the day tomorrow, at my moms for corned beef, cabbage, etc. during the LSU game. If you wanna come by later in the day, that’d be fine. 

What are you gonna do with the Lodi Cab? My 12 gallon Vadai will be empty as soon as I take the Tempranillo out, and it’s past due. Neutral, but good for microx, concentration, etc. if you’re interested......


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## Scott Harbison

Johnd said:


> I’ll be home most of the day tomorrow, at my moms for corned beef, cabbage, etc. during the LSU game. If you wanna come by later in the day, that’d be fine.
> 
> What are you gonna do with the Lodi Cab? My 12 gallon Vadai will be empty as soon as I take the Tempranillo out, and it’s past due. Neutral, but good for microx, concentration, etc. if you’re interested......



Absolutely would love to borrow that barrel! The Lodi Cab is stashed away in my carboys for now. If I can borrow the Vadai, that would be fantastic! Just let me know when you get the Tempranillo bottled up!
I'll try to run the carboys by tomorrow and bring you a check for the grapes! Thanks!


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## Johnd

Scott Harbison said:


> Absolutely would love to borrow that barrel! The Lodi Cab is stashed away in my carboys for now. If I can borrow the Vadai, that would be fantastic! Just let me know when you get the Tempranillo bottled up!
> I'll try to run the carboys by tomorrow and bring you a check for the grapes! Thanks!



Perfect, bring the carboys, we’ll rack (and sample) the Tempranillo into them, and you can take the 12 home with you.


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## Scott Harbison

Johnd said:


> Perfect, bring the carboys, we’ll rack (and sample) the Tempranillo into them, and you can take the 12 home with you.



Sounds good!!


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> I’ll be home most of the day tomorrow, at my moms for corned beef, cabbage, etc. during the LSU game. If you wanna come by later in the day, that’d be fine.
> 
> What are you gonna do with the Lodi Cab? My 12 gallon Vadai will be empty as soon as I take the Tempranillo out, and it’s past due. Neutral, but good for microx, concentration, etc. if you’re interested......



John, of all my wines this year the Tempranillo is my least favorite. It hasn't seen a barrel or oak of any kind yet. I know your barrel was neutral but did you oak it any way or do you prefer not to oak it?


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> John, of all my wines this year the Tempranillo is my least favorite. It hasn't seen a barrel or oak of any kind yet. I know your barrel was neutral but did you oak it any way or do you prefer not to oak it?



Just finished racking it out of the barrel, it’s grapes from Spain and has been been in the 12 for almost a year with four French M+ Wine Stix, and really tastes great. I’m drinking a glass now, pH 3.70, TA 7.0, not much intervention that I recall, but should check my notes. I very much prefer the barrel, whether it oaks or not, it makes a huge difference in my opinion. The 12 didn’t quite hold 12, so I bottled one partially full carboy, the other will get bottled soon. @Scott Harbison made off with my barrel and stand..........LOL


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## Scott Harbison

I'm fortunate to live near @Johnd ! He's making so much wine these days, he's running out of space! I've been lucky enough to not only learn from him, but also to take some of his used barrels off of his hands to use for my wines! Here's a shot of the 11 gallon barrel I absconded with this afternoon along with a shot of the 6 gallon barrel I got from John back in October. The 6 gallon has my Eclipse kit Lodi Cab resting in it and the Vadai will soon be filled with the real grape Lodi Cabernet that I helped John with this year! 

Thank you JohnD for all of your help! I know the barrels are going to make a BIG difference in the quality of my wines!


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## Johnd

Scott Harbison said:


> I'm fortunate to live near @Johnd ! He's making so much wine these days, he's running out of space! I've been lucky enough to not only learn from him, but also to take some of his used barrels off of his hands to use for my wines! Here's a shot of the 11 gallon barrel I absconded with this afternoon along with a shot of the 6 gallon barrel I got from John back in October. The 6 gallon has my Eclipse kit Lodi Cab resting in it and the Vadai will soon be filled with the real grape Lodi Cabernet that I helped John with this year!
> 
> Thank you JohnD for all of your help! I know the barrels are going to make a BIG difference in the quality of my wines!



Wow, you really cleaned it up nicely! Next time you’re in the area, let me know so I can get you some of this Tempranillo I just bottled.


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## Scott Harbison

Johnd said:


> Just finished racking it out of the barrel, it’s grapes from Spain and has been been in the 12 for almost a year with four French M+ Wine Stix, and really tastes great. I’m drinking a glass now, pH 3.70, TA 7.0, not much intervention that I recall, but should check my notes. I very much prefer the barrel, whether it oaks or not, it makes a huge difference in my opinion. The 12 didn’t quite hold 12, so I bottled one partially full carboy, the other will get bottled soon. @Scott Harbison made off with my barrel and stand..........LOL



I got to taste his Tempranillo today and it was terrific! Really terrific!


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## Scott Harbison

I did a little tasting of the Lodi cab this evening and its coming along nicely. The 12 gallon barrel I got from @Johnd although its neutral, is still absorbing a decent amount of wine. I had to add an entire bottle of the "extra" cab I had bottled and saved when I racked from carboys to barrel. The winestix I added seem to be imparting a nice bit of oakiness. I'm going easy on the SO2 though. I plan on keeping it in barrel until at least January, which will be 12 months.
No doubt, although my wine started life in the same fermentation as @Johnd's
it will be a much different wine.


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## Johnd

Scott Harbison said:


> I did a little tasting of the Lodi cab this evening and its coming along nicely. The 12 gallon barrel I got from @Johnd although its neutral, is still absorbing a decent amount of wine. I had to add an entire bottle of the "extra" cab I had bottled and saved when I racked from carboys to barrel. The winestix I added seem to be imparting a nice bit of oakiness. I'm going easy on the SO2 though. I plan on keeping it in barrel until at least January, which will be 12 months.
> No doubt, although my wine started life in the same fermentation as @Johnd'sView attachment 54667
> it will be a much different wine.



Im looking forward to comparing the two down the road, though it’ll be a bit longer for my contribution, as I plan to go two years in the barrel.
I did sample both barrels last weekend, ‘17 in the 30 gal St. Martin is really coming around nicely, it’s the Cab / Petite Sirah / Merlot blend, 19 months old, big and jammy. ‘18 Lodi Cab in the 60 gal Alain Fouquet is a bit mor subdued and primitive, green, tannic, but quite smooth, 7 months old and has a ways to go.....
Glad to see that barrel enjoying the next phase of its life!!!


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## Johnd

A little thievery from the 60 gallon barrel befor it gets sulfited / topped up. A smidge smoother than last month, but all of my other observations hold. The barrel aroma when opened is a dark, jammy, plum aroma, not getting that out of the wine aroma or taste yet, but I’m hoping it’ll develop. It’s drinkable, but not quite enjoyable yet, no oak showing through the fruit yet, but it’s got another 16 - 18 months to go in the barrel.


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## stickman

Looks good to me! Though not enough stains on that barrel yet!


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## CDrew

Interesting tidbit about the slow oaking of the wine. That may be one of the reasons that oak barrels give higher quality results.

Any other monitoring? You adding more sulfite at this point?


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## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Interesting tidbit about the slow oaking of the wine. That may be one of the reasons that oak barrels give higher quality results.
> 
> Any other monitoring? You adding more sulfite at this point?



Yep, it’s time for sulfite and topping up, gotta get the sulfite up from 7 to 35 or so. Really can’t overdo it at this point, it’s got so long to go. My focus is mostly on keeping the barrel topped up, and do that more regularly than sulfiting.


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## salernovic

I too, don’t like to add too much so2 during barrel aging that is why I bottle at 12 months with about 7 months of oak aging in a 100l neutral Hungarian . I just bottled some Spanish montsant carignan. One month in bottle and it tastes sharp and acidic with little oak. Not anywhere near what I was tasting in barrel even though the sharpness was always there.

I also bottled some Spanish montsant Grenache 7 months in flextank and it was tasting great in the tank but after one month in bottle seems like a totally different wine. Not good. Bottle shock!!!


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## Johnd

This morning, decided that the 2018 Lodi Cab had spent enough time in the barrel, 27 or so months. It’s got a wonderfully sweet oaky taste and is smooth as silk. Racked it all back into carboys to rest awhile before bottling, I imagine that the oak will fall back a bit over the next few years, should be just right. I’ve got nothing to put into the 60 gallon St. Martin Frenchie, so it’s being retired. Maybe it’ll finish it’s career as a couple planters, or end tables, or make some nice furniture.


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## CDrew

It seems a shame to "retire" your barrel. Can you fill with water/K meta and keep it sound until fall?(I know exactly nothing about barrel management) I could think of a bunch of uses for a neutral barrel.


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## mainshipfred

My thoughts exactly, there are plenty of oak alternates out there. There would be a lot of tears shed before and after repurposing the barrel.


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## Donz

Don't retire such a beautiful barrel already! You can leave it empty until fall and just do a proper barrel prep when the time comes to refill.


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## Johnd

@CDrew , @mainshipfred , @Donz , thought the same, but I’ll be emptying another 60 and a 30 this fall, definitely don’t need or want to have that much wine. I’ll be happy to send it to anyone who will pay the shipping, for free, with the solid oak rack (on wheels).


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## mainshipfred

That's a very nice offer thank you. Unfortunately for me I don't make that much of an individual wine.


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## Donz

That is super cool of you John. I already have 3 barrels so I know what you mean, keeping them all full involves a lot of wine.


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> That's a very nice offer thank you. Unfortunately for me I don't make that much of an individual wine.





Donz said:


> That is super cool of you John. I already have 3 barrels so I know what you mean, keeping them all full involves a lot of wine.


Same problem I have, and I didn’t make a batch this year. 2018 needs to be bottled now, 300 bottles. In 9 months, I’ll be bottling another 450 bottles, plenty enough wine. I will say though, making the big boy batches in big boy barrels has turned out to be my best efforts to date.


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## CDrew

Johnd said:


> @CDrew , @mainshipfred , @Donz , thought the same, but I’ll be emptying another 60 and a 30 this fall, definitely don’t need or want to have that much wine. I’ll be happy to send it to anyone who will pay the shipping, for free, with the solid oak rack (on wheels).



That is a very fine offer and I wish I could take advantage, but I don't ever seem to make 60 gallons of the same thing at one time. But I really appreciate the thought.


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## Rob S

You can store the barrel with a SO2 solution or burn a sulphur wicks in your empty barrel every 6 weeks and to do this it must be done outside and preferably with a mask so not to breath the fumes. I prefer to use the sulphur wicks method and since it strips out less of the oak than using a storage solution. You will need to re-hydrate the barrel and clean out the sulphur before putting wine into it. There is lots of information on the web on using this technique.


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## Johnd

Rob S said:


> You can store the barrel with a SO2 solution or burn a sulphur wicks in your empty barrel every 6 weeks and to do this it must be done outside and preferably with a mask so not to breath the fumes. I prefer to use the sulphur wicks method and since it strips out less of the oak than using a storage solution. You will need to re-hydrate the barrel and clean out the sulphur before putting wine into it. There is lots of information on the web on using this technique.


Thanks, I've stored barrels for use later on many occasions. This one just isn't going to be one of them, as I'll never have enough wine to use it again. I've got an empty 60 (right now), and will be emptying another 60 and a 30 in the fall. If I make a big batch this fall, I'll use the latter of the two 60's. If I save and refill all of these barrels in Fall, I'll have 150 gallons of wine, no thanks..............


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## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> Thanks, I've stored barrels for use later on many occasions. This one just isn't going to be one of them, as I'll never have enough wine to use it again. I've got an empty 60 (right now), and will be emptying another 60 and a 30 in the fall. If I make a big batch this fall, I'll use the latter of the two 60's. If I save and refill all of these barrels in Fall, I'll have 150 gallons of wine, no thanks..............


if you had to pick a favorite out of all the barrels you’ve used which one would you go for?


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## Johnd

Ajmassa said:


> if you had to pick a favorite out of all the barrels you’ve used which one would you go for?


Can’t say yet, the first wine is just out, the second is a year away. I’ll keep you posted.


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## CDrew

You are going to have a remarkable amount of wine. When is bottling?


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## Johnd

CDrew said:


> You are going to have a remarkable amount of wine. When is bottling?


Good question!! Don’t know yet, but before summer. I’ll give it a few weeks to settle down, taste and adjust if necessary, order bottles, then get a date on the calendar.


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## crushday

Johnd said:


> Good question!! Don’t know yet, but before summer. I’ll give it a few weeks to settle down, taste and adjust if necessary, order bottles, then get a date on the calendar.


John, did you bottle? And, are you still happy with the results? 27 months in a barrel is an enormous amount of time. Were you faith fun to keep up the SO2 schedule? Lots of questions...sorry.


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## Johnd

crushday said:


> John, did you bottle? And, are you still happy with the results? 27 months in a barrel is an enormous amount of time. Were you faith fun to keep up the SO2 schedule? Lots of questions...sorry.


The ‘18 has been out of the barrel and is still in carboys, so no bottling yet. I’ll soon be starting to taste the ‘19 batch, Bx style blend, Cab heavy, brand new 60 oak barrel, reused 30, plus three carboys unoaked.

I don’t open my barrels at all, except to add sulfite and top up, which I’m doing every other month now.


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## Johnd

Seems unlikely, but I finally bottled some of this wine yesterday. Racked and sulfited four of the 6 gallon carboys, filled 228 375's and 11 750's. I'll be using the 375's (with a special label) as gifts for all of the attendees at my daughters wedding in February. The wine is quite tasty, really good fruit, not too tannic and a lot of caramel in the finish, really came out great!!


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Seems unlikely, but I finally bottled some of this wine yesterday. Racked and sulfited four of the 6 gallon carboys, filled 228 375's and 11 750's. I'll be using the 375's (with a special label) as gifts for all of the attendees at my daughters wedding in February. The wine is quite tasty, really good fruit, not too tannic and a lot of caramel in the finish, really came out great!!


Really nice gesture, I'm sure your daughter really appreciates it.


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## crushday

Johnd said:


> Seems unlikely, but I finally bottled some of this wine yesterday. Racked and sulfited four of the 6 gallon carboys, filled 228 375's and 11 750's. I'll be using the 375's (with a special label) as gifts for all of the attendees at my daughters wedding in February. The wine is quite tasty, really good fruit, not too tannic and a lot of caramel in the finish, really came out great!!



Sounds like this is an excellent wine! Glad you got it bottled!


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