# Amount of Fruit for Recipes



## Mango Man (Aug 13, 2020)

Most recipes call for an amount of fruit in bulk weight. Then the instructions say to cut, peel, stone, etc. I have been using the processed weight to get more fruit flavor. Example: 5 gallon Banana recipe called for 15 lbs. I weighed 7 bunches of bananas (21.5 lbs.). Then I peeled them and discarded the peels. Banana weight (15.17 lbs.). So in this example I am essentially increasing the actual banana weight by ~ 6 lbs. How have others treated the amount of fruit called for in recipes?


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## Johnd (Aug 13, 2020)

Mango Man said:


> Most recipes call for an amount of fruit in bulk weight. Then the instructions say to cut, peel, stone, etc. I have been using the processed weight to get more fruit flavor. Example: 5 gallon Banana recipe called for 15 lbs. I weighed 7 bunches of bananas (21.5 lbs.). Then I peeled them and discarded the peels. Banana weight (15.17 lbs.). So in this example I am essentially increasing the actual banana weight by ~ 6 lbs. How have others treated the amount of fruit called for in recipes?



When I've made fruit wines and used recipes, I've always interpreted the # of fruit to be the prepared fruit weight, not the weight before it is processed. I rarely follow those guidelines anyway, opting for as much fruit as I can get with little to no water added, for the best flavor impact.


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## BernardSmith (Aug 14, 2020)

I agree with Johnd. In my opinion, most published recipes seem to be written by people who prefer a wine that reminds them of the flavor of the fruit. Dilute fruit flavors is what they enjoy. It's true that SOME fruit is too acidic to make a good wine without some dilution and it is also true that for many folk the idea of spending so much money on peaches or apricots or mangoes or ??? to make a wine when water is much less expensive makes little sense.. but if you like the flavor of fruit then you might want to use as little water as possible to make your wine.

That said, many of the old country wine recipes do seem to use about 3 - 4 lbs of fruit per gallon. I dunno. Three pounds of strawberries to make a gallon of wine results (for me) in a wine that is flavor-thin, after all, it takes about 16 lbs of grapes to make a gallon of grape wine and about the same weight of apples to make a gallon of juice... and I don't know anyone who dilutes pressed grape juice or apple juice to make a wine, so why would it take three pounds of plums to make a plum wine or three pounds of strawberries to make a strawberry wine?


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## Johnd (Aug 14, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> I agree with Johnd. In my opinion, most published recipes seem to be written by people who prefer a wine that reminds them of the flavor of the fruit. Dilute fruit flavors is what they enjoy. It's true that SOME fruit is too acidic to make a good wine without some dilution and it is also true that for many folk the idea of spending so much money on peaches or apricots or mangoes or ??? to make a wine when water is much less expensive makes little sense.. but if you like the flavor of fruit then you might want to use as little water as possible to make your wine.
> 
> That said, many of the old country wine recipes do seem to use about 3 - 4 lbs of fruit per gallon. I dunno. Three pounds of strawberries to make a gallon of wine results (for me) in a wine that is flavor-thin, after all, it takes about 16 lbs of grapes to make a gallon of grape wine and about the same weight of apples to make a gallon of juice... and I don't know anyone who dilutes pressed grape juice or apple juice to make a wine, so why would it take three pounds of plums to make a plum wine or three pounds of strawberries to make a strawberry wine?



Totally on board with you here Bernard, it's about whether you want to make fruit wine, or fruit - flavored wine!! At least in my opinion...............


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## Scooter68 (Aug 14, 2020)

Yup, If you are making a Fruit wine, make a Fruit wine not a fruit flavor alcoholic beverage. Sadly some of the most well regarded and widely known wine makers have posted recipes with 3-4 lbs of fruit per gallon and that just doesn't cut it with most fruit wines. Even adding raisins, white grape juice, apple juice etc is still just going to result in a wine that is flavored like a certain fruit.

I always work with processed weight of fruit. Some folks go with the "No Water Added" approach meaning all their juice volume comes from the fruit. With some fruits, that's fine, with others as Bernard stated you can wind up with a very acidic wine that is hard to ferment. (Blueberry is the most common wine that is acidic) 
Here are a few of the wines I've made and the quantities of processed fruit that I used with very good results:
Peach 6-8lbs / gallon
Blueberry 6-7 lbs / gallon
Apple (I work from volume of pure Apple juice 1:1)
Wild Black Raspberry 4.5-6lbs /gallon (This is an exception Wild Black Raspberries are really potent and my first with 4.5lb / gallon was A SOLID full flavor wine

After a few batches you will learn the best amounts to use that please YOUR palate and that's what matters. I've added a few other fruits or things on occasion to make a special wine. About 3 oz of White Grape Juice Concentrate in a gallon blueberry wine gives a nice bouquet without really changing the taste. I've added 1/8 of a vanilla bean to a Peach wine and that turned out great. So once you establish the strength of the wine you like you can play with the recipes to suit yourself. This week I started my 45th batch of wine in 5 years So I don't make a lot of it and I make only non-grape wines. I like to make what you can't really buy at even the best beverage shops.


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 14, 2020)

I try to use 100% fruit also, however most of what I do is a blend of high acid as gooseberry mixed with low(er) acid/ but high aroma as watermelon, that carboy also got 2 ounces of raspberry to produce a stable blush color. 
In essence I am formulating to put in teaspoons of acid in the must using natural food rules which maximizes fruity aroma/ taste.


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## Mango Man (Aug 15, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Yup, If you are making a Fruit wine, make a Fruit wine not a fruit flavor alcoholic beverage. Sadly some of the most well regarded and widely known wine makers have posted recipes with 3-4 lbs of fruit per gallon and that just doesn't cut it with most fruit wines. Even adding raisins, white grape juice, apple juice etc is still just going to result in a wine that is flavored like a certain fruit.
> 
> I always work with processed weight of fruit. Some folks go with the "No Water Added" approach meaning all their juice volume comes from the fruit. With some fruits, that's fine, with others as Bernard stated you can wind up with a very acidic wine that is hard to ferment. (Blueberry is the most common wine that is acidic)
> Here are a few of the wines I've made and the quantities of processed fruit that I used with very good results:
> ...


So what was the starting volume and yield after removing the pulp for a 1 gallon batch of peach wine using 6 - 8 lbs? Did you start with 1.5 gallons to get 1 gallon of fermented wine?


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## Scooter68 (Aug 15, 2020)

Something along that amount - 1.5 gallons to start or in my case about 4.5 gallons for a 3 gallon batch. With fruit pulp in the picture you need to significantly increase starting volume to allow for that loss. If you go too high, fine, you will have extra to top off later when more lees drop out. (That's one reason to look for and have on hand bottles from 12 oz to 1/2 gallon and even 3 liters that can accept a standard bung or screw cap for an airlock. ) As long as the SG reading and fruit per gallon is correct so lets say 7-9 lbs for 1.5 gallons of wine must starting out, then you will be fine. Also don't be afraid to wring the lees out and capture some of that cloudy wine at the bottom. Put that in a glass container in the fridge and let it settle out. You might gain 1/2 qt from a qt jar of the lees. Just don't let it set there too long - separate the lees from the wine once the lees in that extra qt jar settle out.

The other issue with peach is that it often starts out with a pudding like consistency making SG reading tough to get. I try to hit the must with extra pectic enzyme (2-3 times normal amount) solid dose of K-meta and then wait 24-36 hours before trying to get a decent SG reading. (You walk a fine line between allowing the must to spoil and getting it to breakdown enough to get a good SG reading. So some extra K-meta while prepping a batch of peach must is a good idea, plus keep it as cool as possible.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 18, 2020)

I have H E Bravery's _Successful Wine Making At Home_ (published 1961) and Stanley F Anderson's _The Art of Making Wine_ (published 1970). 

Both contain many recipes, and the amount of fruit used in recipes varies dramatically from 2#/gallon for loganberries to 8#/gallon for black cherries. Some recipes with low fruit have adjuncts such as raisins or grape concentrate, but the loganberry recipe does not. That's surprising as I don't see any consistent pattern regarding the strength of fruit flavor. It may be that some of the recipes were copied from other sources and were not tested.

My experience in fruit wine making is that (in general) more is better. I tried recipes with lower amount of fruit (2.5#) and each was disappointing. For the most part, 5#/gallon is a minimum, although I don't disagree with @Scooter68's opinion on amounts.

*Side Note:* both books provide a good background on home wine making, going into details regarding equipment, additives, etc. From that perspective, I recommend both books.

Bravery has chapters on making wine from pretty much anything I'd consider, and a few things I wouldn't. He goes into background regarding root, citrus fruit, flowers, herbs, and dried fruit/grain. It is interesting reading. [I haven't opened the book in many years and had a low opinion of it -- however, in leafing through it I find that my former opinion was in error.]

Anderson goes into technical detail, including how to use Pearson's Square for fortifying a wine.

He also has a recipe he calls "Sherry", using a 76 oz can of Spanish Fig concentrate and 1 gallon of California white grape concentrate.

While I can't find Spanish Fig concentrate online, I found a *fig concentrate*. This recipe spiked my curiosity.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 18, 2020)

What make the issue even more challenging is the affect that the weather can have on fruit. In a dry year smaller fruit are often the outcome BUT it appears that with some fruits and berries, the amount of flavor is higher - Along that line of that little bitty berry, nectarine, peach whatever still has the same total amount of sugar and flavor as fatter more water-fluffed fruit/berry would have in a year with more rain. The smaller fruits are almost 'pre-concentrated for us and we have to figure that out. That's the one thing that vineyard owners have to do is to track the content of their grapes each year. With us who have home orchards, berry patches etc we have to figure that out however we can. I guess a refractometer could do that but... that only measures the sugar not the flavor quality.


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## hounddawg (Aug 19, 2020)

on stout flavored fruits, an berries i at the very least double to triple the fruit,
i got 3#, 6-gal of banana bulk aging, i aint got my notes out, but i used 132 lb banana, cant remember either 20 or 40 lb apples, 35 lb golden raisins, 1 quart pineapple juice, and 10 to 15 3qt apple juice, the more the fruit the more the flavor profile,,,,Zero water, and lots of pectic enzyme plus i freeze all my fruits and berries before putting in must, and sugar to ABV you want, then after ferment i add K-meta/potassium metabisulfite, and potassium sorbate , than backsweeten to your preferred sweet.dry profile ,,, 
Dawg


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## Vinobeau (Aug 19, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> on stout flavored fruits, an berries i at the very least double to triple the fruit,
> i got 3#, 6-gal of banana bulk aging, i aint got my notes out, but i used 132 lb banana, cant remember either 20 or 40 lb apples, 35 lb golden raisins, 1 quart pineapple juice, and 10 to 15 3qt apple juice, the more the fruit the more the flavor profile,,,,Zero water, and lots of pectic enzyme plus i freeze all my fruits and berries before putting in must, and sugar to ABV you want, then after ferment i add K-meta/potassium metabisulfite, and potassium sorbate , than backsweeten to your preferred sweet.dry profile ,,,
> Dawg



Well, I certainly would love to try that!! Ijust can't imagine what it would be like. Please keep us posted on the results.
It is my opinion that the earlier fruit wine authors were not trying to make a real fruity / syrupy wine. I believe that they were trying to replicate grape wines with fruity overtones, probably stemming from their lack of grapes to make the wine from. I have never had a wine (that I knew of) that was made with either all fruit or a large amount of fruit; and my belief is that it would have to be sweetened a lot to overcome the bitterness. And maybe I'm wrong!


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## hounddawg (Aug 19, 2020)

Vinobeau said:


> Well, I certainly would love to try that!! Ijust can't imagine what it would be like. Please keep us posted on the results.
> It is my opinion that the earlier fruit wine authors were not trying to make a real fruity / syrupy wine. I believe that they were trying to replicate grape wines with fruity overtones, probably stemming from their lack of grapes to make the wine from. I have never had a wine (that I knew of) that was made with either all fruit or a large amount of fruit; and my belief is that it would have to be sweetened a lot to overcome the bitterness. And maybe I'm wrong!


nope, you're right on, for a country wine to taste like fruit or berries straight from the tee/bush/briar patch, then yes lots of sugar, where i'm from during the old days there was no soup kitchens, no food lines, you trapped or hunted your food, i remember dad saying when grandma got flour the 11 kids would eat raw flour while grandma was cooking poorboy gravy, that's a dop of grease, flour, water, dad was born in greene country in a barn with snow on the floor/dirt january 11-33, even nowadays, movies and song are 6 months behind the coast, regular tv, not dish cable, lol, life was very hard back then, shine was king, beer was way to yeasty, and wines were mainly elderberry, muscadine and dandelion, it was what they had back then, all other fruits and berries were food,
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Aug 20, 2020)

Vinobeau said:


> It is my opinion that the earlier fruit wine authors were not trying to make a real fruity / syrupy wine. I believe that they were trying to replicate grape wines with fruity overtones, probably stemming from their lack of grapes to make the wine from.


 In older books at least one author recommended using as little fruit as possible so the fruit flavors don't overwhelm the wine. [This is my paraphrase from memory of a text I read quite a while ago.] From that I gather that the intent was to make a replacement for grape wine. In my experience this makes a tasteless result.



Vinobeau said:


> I have never had a wine (that I knew of) that was made with either all fruit or a large amount of fruit; and my belief is that it would have to be sweetened a lot to overcome the bitterness.


Fruit wines generally need at least a bit of sweetening. Without sweetening, in my experience they tend to be astringent and lacking -- even a small amount of sugar brings out the fruit flavor.

@hounddawg likes his sweet. OTOH, I tend to sweeten mine very little. Both styles (and everything in between) produce a good result.

For my last batch of elderberry I added 3/4 cup sugar for 3.5 US gallons, which produced < 2% residual sugar. The second part of that batch I sweetened to about 14% residual sugar and bottled in splits (375 ml) as a dessert wine.

For an apple wine, I added 2 quarts commercial apple juice to 5 US gallons, which changed the SG from 0.990 to 0.994. The apple was dry, but the juice really enhanced the flavor. You wouldn't believe the unsweetened and sweetened were the same wine.

I don't fall into the "make fruit wine taste like grape" camp!


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## Scooter68 (Aug 20, 2020)

You're digging way back there Dawg. I was city born (North of Chicago - Naval Station there) but My mom made a visit once to Arkansas - don't know what part but here's the evidence of their travel. (I'm not in this picture) Estimate trip was in the 30's ??


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## hounddawg (Aug 20, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> You're digging way back there Dawg. I was city born (North of Chicago - Naval Station there) but My mom made a visit once to Arkansas - don't know what part but here's the evidence of their travel. (I'm not in this picture) Estimate trip was in the 30's ??
> 
> View attachment 65027


yep dad was born 33 by 1943 he traveled by himself to wisconsin to pick fruit and at end of season from all over the USA, those 10 y/o and older came home so the family could live, whats really funny is my great grandpa edward robins was a harvard grad, his first 6 wives and their lineage are all very rich, but his last wife #7 was a full blood comanche and my lineage was considered sub human , and received nothing, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Aug 20, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> You're digging way back there Dawg. I was city born (North of Chicago - Naval Station there) but My mom made a visit once to Arkansas - don't know what part but here's the evidence of their travel. (I'm not in this picture) Estimate trip was in the 30's ??
> 
> View attachment 65027


mom was 6 months with me when dad went to work at quaker oats in rockford, and moved back to Arkansas,, when i was 2
Dawg


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## winemanden (Aug 21, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> yep dad was born 33 by 1943 he traveled by himself to wisconsin to pick fruit and at end of season from all over the USA, those 10 y/o and older came home so the family could live, whats really funny is my great grandpa edward robins was a harvard grad, his first 6 wives and their lineage are all very rich, but his last wife #7 was a full blood comanche and my lineage was considered sub human , and received nothing,
> Dawg


Dawg, your dad was born same year as me. My dad was a fractured back, out of work, coal miner. He never worked until 1942. He started work again because "The Country needed him". Until 1942 miners were classed as essential workers exempt from military service. By that year, so many British soldiers had been killed they started drafting miners into the army. Not only that they drafted 14-18 year old lads into the pits, Bevin boys they were called. Those days we were poor, but happy, scrounging, foraging, and ragged arsed -That seems to be fashionable these days. I don't know about the USA, but in the UK, poverty is just a certain number of Uk £,s , even if you've got a car, TV, smart phone etc. They're definitely not happier than we were, that's a fact!


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## winemanden (Aug 21, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> I agree with Johnd. In my opinion, most published recipes seem to be written by people who prefer a wine that reminds them of the flavor of the fruit. Dilute fruit flavors is what they enjoy. It's true that SOME fruit is too acidic to make a good wine without some dilution and it is also true that for many folk the idea of spending so much money on peaches or apricots or mangoes or ??? to make a wine when water is much less expensive makes little sense.. but if you like the flavor of fruit then you might want to use as little water as possible to make your wine.
> 
> That said, many of the old country wine recipes do seem to use about 3 - 4 lbs of fruit per gallon. I dunno. Three pounds of strawberries to make a gallon of wine results (for me) in a wine that is flavor-thin, after all, it takes about 16 lbs of grapes to make a gallon of grape wine and about the same weight of apples to make a gallon of juice... and I don't know anyone who dilutes pressed grape juice or apple juice to make a wine, so why would it take three pounds of plums to make a plum wine or three pounds of strawberries to make a strawberry wine?


Bernard and Winemaker 81, I've got a book published 1981 called WINEMAKING with ELDERBERRIES  BY T. Edwin Belt. There are 98 different recipes for Elderberry wine. The highest weight is 3lb (1.36 kg), smallest 1lb (0.45 kg), but and it's a big BUT, he adds loads of other fruits and grape concentrate. This poses the question, can you call it Elderberry wine when it's less than the other fruits in the recipe? I know it doesn't really matter if the wine is good.
PS there are a couple of recipes for a 2nd and a 3rd extraction from the Elderberries!!!
Also, somewhere tucked away I've got a book called MAKING WINES LIKE THOSE YOU BUY by Brian Acton and Peter Duncan. All the recipes are supposed to turn out the same as commercial grape wines. I've made a few of them, nice wines, but can't say that they're like the wines that you buy.


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 21, 2020)

As a home wine maker you can call it what ever you want
As a industry person we name it based on the dominant flavor, elderberry has dominant tannic notes which can overwhelm lower flavor juices and the name may not be the dominant ingredient.
As an entrant at state fair I have to list largest ingredient first ,,, it is easy to break the extra juice into red grape then apple and finally white grape so there is lots of fruit in the backbone.

Interesting book suggestions, will have to do some hunting 


winemanden said:


> I've got a book published 1981 called WINEMAKING with ELDERBERRIES  BY T. Edwin Belt. There are 98 different recipes for Elderberry wine. The highest weight is 3lb (1.36 kg), smallest 1lb (0.45 kg), but and it's a big BUT, he adds loads of other fruits and grape concentrate. This poses the question, can you call it Elderberry wine when it's less than the other fruits in the recipe?


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## winemaker81 (Aug 21, 2020)

winemanden said:


> PS there are a couple of recipes for a 2nd and a 3rd extraction from the Elderberries!!!


I can see doing a 2nd extraction/2nd run on elderberries. Granted, the 2nd run will be lighter than the first, but it should produce a good outcome.

3rd extraction? That one I'll question. I've had 3rd run grape wines that tasted mostly like colored alcohol, with very little grape character. I've not tried it myself.


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## hounddawg (Aug 21, 2020)

winemanden said:


> Bernard and Winemaker 81, I've got a book published 1981 called WINEMAKING with ELDERBERRIES  BY T. Edwin Belt. There are 98 different recipes for Elderberry wine. The highest weight is 3lb (1.36 kg), smallest 1lb (0.45 kg), but and it's a big BUT, he adds loads of other fruits and grape concentrate. This poses the question, can you call it Elderberry wine when it's less than the other fruits in the recipe? I know it doesn't really matter if the wine is good.
> PS there are a couple of recipes for a 2nd and a 3rd extraction from the Elderberries!!!
> Also, somewhere tucked away I've got a book called MAKING WINES LIKE THOSE YOU BUY by Brian Acton and Peter Duncan. All the recipes are supposed to turn out the same as commercial grape wines. I've made a few of them, nice wines, but can't say that they're like the wines that you buy.


i do 2 elderberries or 1 and one blend , straight elderberry 5 lb per gallon, and a elderberry/blackberry blend, that's fermented together 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Aug 21, 2020)

winemanden said:


> Dawg, your dad was born same year as me. My dad was a fractured back, out of work, coal miner. He never worked until 1942. He started work again because "The Country needed him". Until 1942 miners were classed as essential workers exempt from military service. By that year, so many British soldiers had been killed they started drafting miners into the army. Not only that they drafted 14-18 year old lads into the pits, Bevin boys they were called. Those days we were poor, but happy, scrounging, foraging, and ragged arsed -That seems to be fashionable these days. I don't know about the USA, but in the UK, poverty is just a certain number of Uk £,s , even if you've got a car, TV, smart phone etc. They're definitely not happier than we were, that's a fact!


my great grandpa on mom's side, a full blooded cherokee died of black lung from working in coal mines, that was deadly work back then,
Dawg


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## Scooter68 (Aug 21, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> As a home wine maker you can call it what ever you want
> As a industry person we name it based on the dominant flavor, elderberry has dominant tannic notes which can overwhelm lower flavor juices and the name may not be the dominant ingredient.
> As an entrant at state fair I have to list largest ingredient first ,,, it is easy to break the extra juice into red grape then apple and finally white grape so there is lots of fruit in the backbone.
> 
> Interesting book suggestions, will have to do some hunting



I agree you can call it what you want but there is a reason that lists of ingredients by law (In some states) and custom list ingredients in order of quantity present. Sadly many beverage and food items are labeled as whatever the maker wants to call it - this means that many folks just look at the label, consume the item and believe that they had the 'real deal.' A great example is the Ocean Spray Juice drinks - you see that label that says 100% juice no added sugar and you decide to try some 100% Cran-Cherry drink. Look at the copy of their label (Posted below) and see what you are REALLY drinking. Yes, if you like it _great. _But when you are making a wine, be aware that if you use mixed flavors like that or even 'concentrates' the outcome may or may not be close to what you expected. (Ocean Spray Juices are a poor way to go in case you haven't tried them.)

I agree that in some cases the full strength flavor would be overwhelming and unpleasant to some folks but none-the-less I wish that labels on commercial items were required to clearly and up-front identify the flavors in things like Drinks and drink mixes. A leading seller of wine bases sells many of their wine bases with a label that on the front does NOT identify the primary flavor (by quantity) in their wine base. Consequently many folks buy and make decent wines with those wine bases BUT they are by no means 100% the "Named" flavor on that wine base. 

Just a personal preference - I'd rather pay more get the real-deal and then modify the wine base as* I* see fit not as some corporate chemist/taste tester, determines.


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## DizzyIzzy (Aug 21, 2020)

Mango Man said:


> Most recipes call for an amount of fruit in bulk weight. Then the instructions say to cut, peel, stone, etc. I have been using the processed weight to get more fruit flavor. Example: 5 gallon Banana recipe called for 15 lbs. I weighed 7 bunches of bananas (21.5 lbs.). Then I peeled them and discarded the peels. Banana weight (15.17 lbs.). So in this example I am essentially increasing the actual banana weight by ~ 6 lbs. How have others treated the amount of fruit called for in recipes?


I always go for "the more fruit the better" mantra................................................Dizzy


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 22, 2020)

@Scooter68 i reallly like “vegetable concentrate for color”,

that is what “natural” food rules do and YUP it has “no sugar added” cause cane sugar makes the kids bounce off the walls, ,,,,, at least that is what marketing says


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## Scooter68 (Aug 22, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> @Scooter68 i reallly like “vegetable concentrate for color”, that is what “natural” food rules do and YUP it has “no sugar added” cause cane sugar makes the kids bounce off the walls, ,,,,, at least that is what marketing says


And what make that point so funny is that both Cranberries and Cherries have very deep colors so why do they have to 'add' color to the drink - unless we don't want to know what the exact process is that they use. Oooh Oooooh I know... because it's so diluted with Grape and Apple juice that all the color is lost.

Decades ago Monsanto had a ride at Disneyland where you rode and supposedly went into a microscope and were "shrunk down and injected into a human' (too long to give all the details) BUT AS you started down the ride the big sign with the Mosanto Logo said *"Better living through chemicals" * I kid you not. Funny to remember that was considered fine back then. We didn't have a clue about what might be in our foods.

At least with homemade wine I know what chemicals I choose to put into my wine.


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## hounddawg (Aug 22, 2020)

In my vast lack of experience, i have found that the more fruit, the more robust the color, fascinating the thought of using more or less food coloring for color of wine, now i'm not complaining, how others do their wines, it is something i had never giving thought to, and yes my wines are expensive for me to make, but it ain't like any of yawl don't already know , i aint right,  
Dawg


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## Vinobeau (Aug 23, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> And what make that point so funny is that both Cranberries and Cherries have very deep colors so why do they have to 'add' color to the drink - unless we don't want to know what the exact process is that they use. Oooh Oooooh I know... because it's so diluted with Grape and Apple juice that all the color is lost.
> 
> Decades ago Monsanto had a ride at Disneyland where you rode and supposedly went into a microscope and were "shrunk down and injected into a human' (too long to give all the details) BUT AS you started down the ride the big sign with the Mosanto Logo said *"Better living through chemicals" * I kid you not. Funny to remember that was considered fine back then. We didn't have a clue about what might be in our foods.
> 
> At least with homemade wine I know what chemicals I choose to put into my wine.



The juices are generally sans the skins, that is where most of the color is. This is a wine made from Cranberry sauce, 5 pounds of sauce per gallon. A pretty color in the carboy, but quite dull in a glass.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 23, 2020)

Vinobeau - I would say that if you used a canned cranberry sauce, you are already behind the curve on preserving color and flavor. I may be mistaken but most commercial canning processes don't worry a great deal about what their prep does to the qualities of the food product other than to make it taste and look decent in it's designed use. When you use it for something other than as a sauce... it's not going to hold up well. Homemade cranberry sauce that my family and my wife's family made always had the skins in it. (They cooked the berries, added sugar to reduce the tartness some and that was it.) Not sure than your store bought sauces will have those in them if that is what you used.

Perhaps you might have better results with something like this even if the cost is more... you get something made for the basis of wine making/brewing.









Cranberry Juice Concentrate for Home Brewing, Hard Cider and Wine


Our 50 brix Cranberry Juice concentrate is not an extract, but a pure juice concentrate, made from 100% pure fruit juice. Available in quarts, 1.5 gal, 3 gallon, 4 gallon, and 52 gallon drums.



colomafrozen.com




They have several varieties of concentrates made for brewing/wine making. Again cost won't be as good as you might get using basic store bought products but it's certainly going to me more likely to provide a good outcome in flavor and color.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 23, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Just a personal preference - I'd rather pay more get the real-deal and then modify the wine base as* I* see fit not as some corporate chemist/taste tester, determines.


Agreed.

Couple years ago I purchased an elderberry concentrate, an impulse purchase. After I started the wine, I read the label .... lot of apple and grape juice in it.

That said, the wine came out good. I haven't made elderberry since the late 80's so I cannot tell you if it was as good as that from fresh elderberries. However, everyone who tastes it loves it .... so I'm not complaining.

However, @Scooter68 recommended a pure elderberry concentrate that I'll use next time.


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## Vinobeau (Aug 23, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Vinobeau - I would say that if you used a canned cranberry sauce, you are already behind the curve on preserving color and flavor. I may be mistaken but most commercial canning processes don't worry a great deal about what their prep does to the qualities of the food product other than to make it taste and look decent in it's designed use. When you use it for something other than as a sauce... it's not going to hold up well. Homemade cranberry sauce that my family and my wife's family made always had the skins in it. (They cooked the berries, added sugar to reduce the tartness some and that was it.) Not sure than your store bought sauces will have those in them if that is what you used.
> 
> Perhaps you might have better results with something like this even if the cost is more... you get something made for the basis of wine making/brewing.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry that I led you to think that I was not satisfied with the Cranberry sauce wine. It is quite good and I could care less about the lack of color. I've been making Cranberry wine since the mid 70's, and used real berries, wine concentrate, canned sauce & canned berries. They have all been perfectly drinkable and there has never been a problem with them turning bad. 
I must admit one small quirk that I have with my wine making is that I purposely try to make wines a cheap as possible. That is one reason that I do not buy bottle and I reuse screw tops. My cost per bottle of this Cranberry wine will be about 61 cents, and that is mainly because sugar is up!! Too bad Arkansas is so far away, I'd love to trade some wine with you!


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## Scooter68 (Aug 23, 2020)

Hey Cheap is good, very good! The only juices I buy are those I REALLY want and can't get locally or free from our area. (Black Currant for example) Some of the juices like pineapple and mango just require a decision on how to get it. I've bought frozen mango chunks and realized that they aren't really ripe ripe fruit. Real mangos on sale are great but really messy to work with. So I understand and .... I've bought 1 case of "Split" bottles, a case of the Reusable beer/ale type bottle but everything else I dig out of the recycling bins at our city recycling center. Take time to get a 'matching set' of bottle for batches but that's part of the fun of it all. I looked into the glass 'corks' but ran into 2 issues 1) You have to buy like 300-400 of them at a time and 2) They all have to be the same size and recycled bottles don't always work out to be one size. So I have stuck with corks.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 24, 2020)

I use all Bordeaux-style bottles because they stack well. I have enough accumulated that I organize them by height. This way I use (mostly) uniform size bottles for each batch. I have purchased bottles, but that's pricy.

Anyone I give wine to has the understanding is that if I don't get the bottle back, they do NOT get more wine .....


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## wpt-me (Aug 25, 2020)

As bottles here have a deposit on them, I can get them from recycle center for 15 cents each, then have
to clean real good and scrape the labels off.

Bill


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## hounddawg (Aug 26, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Couple years ago I purchased an elderberry concentrate, an impulse purchase. After I started the wine, I read the label .... lot of apple and grape juice in it.
> 
> ...


have you ever tried homewinery.com their concentrates are not really concentrates but a reduced concentrate , but structure it for 4 gallons per half gallon, buy #--3,, 1/2 gallon jugs n concentrate, to 12 gallon water, that gives you combined 13.5 gallons, which with topping off you end up with 12 very robust gallons of finished wine.
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Aug 26, 2020)

@hounddawg, I was not familiar with homewinery.com. Got them bookmarked!


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## Scooter68 (Aug 26, 2020)

wpt-me said:


> As bottles here have a deposit on them, I can get them from recycle center for 15 cents each, then have
> to clean real good and scrape the labels off.
> 
> Bill


Well, I guess 15 cents per is still a good price as long as you get to pick them. And when you're done with them,,, you get your money back so not bad. label removal isn't fun but once you learn which brands and labels come off cleanly, that makes it a bit easier.


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## wpt-me (Aug 26, 2020)

Once label is off no return !!

Bill


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## DizzyIzzy (Aug 31, 2020)

wpt-me said:


> As bottles here have a deposit on them, I can get them from recycle center for 15 cents each, then have
> to clean real good and scrape the labels off.
> 
> Bill


That's good to know. My family live in Maine, and one of my nephews makes honey wines. I am sure he will appreciate knowing about the 15 cents/bottle. Thanks................................Dizzy


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## Scooter68 (Sep 1, 2020)

I guess those labels are very valuable. Gotta hand it to them - they know how to stick it to folks and turn a profit over bottles they basically get for free.


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## wpt-me (Sep 11, 2020)

No there is a deposit on them of 15 cents so they don't get them free either.
Some get between 15 and 20 cents to buy them.

Bill


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## Scooter68 (Sep 11, 2020)

Well something is weird that they require labels on the bottles. Are they afraid that something toxic might have been in the bottles?


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## wpt-me (Sep 11, 2020)

No they don't want you to slip in out of state bottles!!

Bill


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## Scooter68 (Sep 11, 2020)

Sounds like they watched too many episodes of Seinfeld.
Typical foolish behavior. I guess folks in MA, and other surrounding states might try to profiteer from their refund/deposit process.
This is what happens when bureaucrats are control.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 11, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Sounds like they watched too many episodes of Seinfeld.
> Typical foolish behavior. I guess folks in MA, and other surrounding states might try to profiteer from their refund/deposit process.
> This is what happens when bureaucrats are control.



I really don't understand your confusion. You pay a deposit on something. When you return the object, you have to prove that it is the thing that you paid the deposit on!

Example: at my local biergarten, you have to pay $5 deposit for a mug. They give you a chip and the mug of beer. When you return the chip AND the mug, you get your $5 back. No bureaucrats, no conniving, no profiteering, no ill motives, no foolishness.


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