# Satsuma Wine?



## Johnd (Oct 16, 2016)

Our satsuma tree was really loaded with fruit this year, way more than we could consume. Went out and picked this morning, kept some for us and looked at the other three buckets full and decided to try to make wine with the excess. This is the 20 gallon fermenter with about 80 pounds of peeled fruit.


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## Johnd (Oct 16, 2016)

Did a little mashing with my punchdown tool to loosen it up a bit, then stuck my drill driven degassing paddle in there and liquefied the must. Initial Brix was 11, boosted that up to 23.3, pH was 3.35, left that alone for now. A little SO2, 5 tsp pectin enzyme, 3 tsp wine tannins, will pitch some yeast tomorrow along with nutrients and see what I can do with this.....


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## Stressbaby (Oct 16, 2016)

I've made satsuma wine. I juiced mine first and used some bananas for body. It came out pretty good. Surprising how well it has aged.


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## Johnd (Oct 19, 2016)

This little experiment seems to be moving along quite well. Fermentation started right on track and it got a dose of Fermaid at the onset. The smell is really nice so far, just keep punching down the cap, hit it with another Fermaid in a day or two and see what happens.


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## wineforfun (Oct 19, 2016)

Should turn out fine. I have made wine from orange juice, which is essentially the same thing you are dealing with. Ended up crystal clear (with the help of SuperKleer). Racked onto some dark chocolate after clearing.
What type of yeast did you go with?


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## Johnd (Oct 19, 2016)

wineforfun said:


> Should turn out fine. I have made wine from orange juice, which is essentially the same thing you are dealing with. Ended up crystal clear (with the help of SuperKleer). Racked onto some dark chocolate after clearing.
> What type of yeast did you go with?



Two packs of K1-V1116 was the choice of the day.


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## mikewatkins727 (Oct 19, 2016)

Hmmm. Thought Satsuma was a plum. Well, yeah, it is; but also a citrus fruit. Never too old to learn, I guess.


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## Johnd (Oct 24, 2016)

Since I was going out of town for a few days, decided to go ahead and press the wine early Thursday morning to get it into carboys with airlocks until returning on Sunday. 

Scooped the pulp out with a strainer and dropped it into the press, pretty much expecting a gooey mess, and was not disappointed. It was like trying to press pudding, oozing up between the press plate and the basket. 

Abandoning that idea, put the goop into a straining bag and back into the press, with a little more success. The bag kept it from oozing up, but it was a really slow and arduous process, but got 'er done.

Returned Sunday to see all was well, a 6 gallon and 3 gallon carboy bubbling along very lightly, SG down to 1.001 in both. Still pretty much looks and smells like orange juice, maybe even a little screwdriverlike. Small, compact layer of lees at the bottom of each vessel, should be finished up and ready to degas and rack by the end of the week


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## Johnd (Oct 26, 2016)

Been at .999 for a couple days, lees piling up pretty good in the partially filled 6 and 3 gallon carboys. Racked off of the lees and filled a 6 gallon, but didn't degas or sulfite, gonna let it fester for a few more days to see if it'll get down a little lower. No big deal if it doesn't, I'm pretty sure this will need some sorbate and sweetening later anyway. It's less orange after the lees settled out, looking forward to seeing the color after it's cleared.


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## Amanda660 (Oct 26, 2016)

Gotta hijack and ask: I made a similar wine (orange) that I wanted to turn into a orange chocolate dessert wine. It took 18 mos before it was something I was confident I could make anything drinkable out of. Several times I almost dumped it - my notes contain some very colorful adjectives to describe its progress or lack of. Is it normal for a citrus to take so long to be palatable.


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## Johnd (Oct 27, 2016)

Amanda660 said:


> Gotta hijack and ask: I made a similar wine (orange) that I wanted to turn into a orange chocolate dessert wine. It took 18 mos before it was something I was confident I could make anything drinkable out of. Several times I almost dumped it - my notes contain some very colorful adjectives to describe its progress or lack of. Is it normal for a citrus to take so long to be palatable.



Afraid that I can't answer that question, don't make much non-grape wine and this is my only attempt at anything in the citrus world. I'm glad you posted your experience, at least it is known that it might be a long ride for this one...


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## Johnd (Dec 24, 2016)

Got up early, and since it was time to rack the satsuma, decided to do a little extra with it. It was a nice, clear yellow color, ran it through the super jet with the polishing pads to make it shine, looked great after the filter rack, so I took a taste. Hmmmmm, not good, very tart (which I expected), not much discernible citrus flavor, and very bitter on the back of my tongue. I worked hard to be open minded, but found no redeeming qualities. 

Not one to avoid a challenge, or bail out on an infant wine, I took a few additional steps to move it along. Since the carboy wasn't full from filter racking, I added sulfite, sorbate and about 4 cups of sugar, which topped it up very nicely. It was a little better, not much, it'll have to be sweetened more later. 

A satsuma wine that's yellow just doesn't seem to fit, so I decided to see if I could monkey with that a bit. Calling upon my kindergarten training, I recalled that "yellow and red makes orange" and went to work with a little red food coloring. A drop at a time, it changed from a yellow wine to an orange wine. 

It's back on the carboy rack to sit and age, I'm not really stoked with this experiment, but maybe this ugly duckling will grow into something drinkable.....


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## ceeaton (Dec 24, 2016)

Johnd said:


> but maybe this ugly duckling will grow into something drinkable.....



Kmeta the crap out of it and hide the carboy for a year or two. Will probably turn out to be the elixir to cure all ills. Look up the story of Worchestershire sauce to get you stoked for the good things to come.


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## jimhill (Mar 28, 2017)

Hello, I have not posted in awhile, but I have been reading and researching. I am planning on starting a satsuma wine this week, and I was wondering what you would have done differently to improve it.
I am planning to mash and stir the satsumas as you did, then adjust SG with sugar and check pH. I was just seeking any further tips, and how did yours finally turn out. Thanks. Jim Hill


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## Johnd (Mar 28, 2017)

jimhill said:


> Hello, I have not posted in awhile, but I have been reading and researching. I am planning on starting a satsuma wine this week, and I was wondering what you would have done differently to improve it.
> I am planning to mash and stir the satsumas as you did, then adjust SG with sugar and check pH. I was just seeking any further tips, and how did yours finally turn out. Thanks. Jim Hill



Hey Jim. Not sure I can tell you yet how it turned out, it's still just sitting in a carboy, and hasn't been tasted in months, Christmas Eve to be exact. It's due for some sulfite soon, so I'll be checking and tasting soon, maybe it's mellowed a bit and the sugar will have helped bring back the orange taste. 

As far as the process, I'm satisfied with that part, just need to see if satsuma turns into a good wine.


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## AkTom (Mar 28, 2017)

You gotta love these sagas.


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## Cxwgfamily (Apr 4, 2017)

all,

Let's keep posting on Satsuma Wine. I made 6 batches at 3 gallons each this year to test different process variables. I adjusted things like Fermentation Temp, Yeast strains, and malolactic fermentation. I will do a taste of the 6 batches in the coming weeks with some friends who helped me get that many satsumas. I will do a post after the tasting.

cxwgfamily


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## Cxwgfamily (Nov 16, 2017)

Tasted the 6 batches made from 2017 satsumas. Some had a nutty taste some did not. 2 batches were deemed to be better than the others so I bottled them. I combined the other 4 batches and bulk aged them for about 4 months, then I bottled them. A friend made a Sangria out of the combined batches and everyone at a tailgate just loved the Sangria. I have not tasted any of the two batches deemed to be better than the others 
I am starting my 2018 Satsuma batches today. I am going to change my procedure and NOT stir the batches very much during fermentation. Add Bentonite to the primary before pitching the yeast. I will also check and adjust the TA if necessary. Wish me luck. I will keep you posted.
Cxwgfamily


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## Johnd (Nov 16, 2017)

Looked back over the thread, it's almost Christmas and I still haven't tasted this wine, guess i'll need to do that soon.... My tree only produced 6 satsumas this year, it seems to do that, bumper crop one year, next to nothing the following year. Keep me posted on your progress.


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## Cxwgfamily (Jan 2, 2018)

Satsuma Wine update,
I made another three batches of Satsuma Wine from this year's harvest. I changed up the fermentation methodology this year trying to improve the outcome. The results are very encouraging. First, my basic process:
1) I juice the satsumas and then freeze the juice. It can stay juiced and frozen for as little as a couple of days to several months. The driver for duration frozen is "when do I have the time to do the batch."
2) Fermentation at a reduce temperature (typically between 50 and 60 oF). Then to secondary for a month or so and then a tertiary.
3) Usually will bottles within about 4 months of starting batch.​The changes made this round of batches were all in the fermentation step. Previous batches I would conduct the fermentation much like I would a batch from the fruit musk like strawberries or blueberries. (ie. I would stir the bath twice a day for five to ten minutes). For this batch, I ran the fermentation like a Kit Wine fermentation. In other words, I added bentonite at the beginning of the fermentation, added all the additives, then yeast and sealed the fermentor with an air lock. I only checked the Sp Gr a couple of times during fermentation. After the Sp Gr got to below 1.0, transferred to a Secondary.

I tasted the wines over the last couple of days. There is no "nuttiness" on the finish and the wine is actually enjoyable. I still have work to do but at least now I have a enjoyable wine to drink. I hope this helps add to the body of knowledge to those who like to make citrus wines.

Cxwgfamily


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## Stressbaby (Jan 7, 2018)

Cxwgfamily said:


> I added bentonite at the beginning of the fermentation, added all the additives, then yeast and sealed the fermentor with an air lock. I only checked the Sp Gr a couple of times during fermentation. After the Sp Gr got to below 1.0, transferred to a Secondary.



I'm doing more and more of my "country white" wines this way.


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## Cxwgfamily (Jan 15, 2018)

I am beginning to think that citrus wines are very sensitive to oxygen. I opened a bottle of my Ruby Red Grapefruit wine last week. I was really good for a rookie like me. (I need to work on the acidity/sweetness balance). I drank a couple of glasses on the first day, but after a day and a half in the refrig it developed the "nutty" taste on the finish. Most of my wines last 4 to 7 days before they start to degrade. The taste was the same as the Satsuma wine i made last year the old way. 

I think I am going to start making all my wines from juices this "new" way. It is my understanding that most of the Kit wines have started recommending this method of primary fermentation.

cxwgfamily.


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## Johnd (May 29, 2018)

Update on the satsuma wine. I dumped it yesterday. Nothing went wrong with it, nice and clear, had done some back sweetening, and it tasted OK, but that's it, just OK. Guess I'm just not a fan of it and didn't really want to make room for 30 bottles of OK wine, and feel a little guilty about giving away wine that I wouldn't like to drink. All in all, only a few bucks and a little time wasted. I'm sure I could have started messing with adding other things to it, or make a dessert type wine or something along those lines, just didn't feel like messing with it.


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## Hair of the dog (Dec 12, 2020)

wineforfun said:


> Should turn out fine. I have made wine from orange juice, which is essentially the same thing you are dealing with. Ended up crystal clear (with the help of SuperKleer). Racked onto some dark chocolate after clearing.
> What type of yeast did you go with?





Johnd said:


> Did a little mashing with my punchdown tool to loosen it up a bit, then stuck my drill driven degassing paddle in there and liquefied the must. Initial Brix was 11, boosted that up to 23.3, pH was 3.35, left that alone for now. A little SO2, 5 tsp pectin enzyme, 3 tsp wine tannins, will pitch some yeast tomorrow along with nutrients and see what I can do with this.....
> 
> View attachment 32006


Same situation with abundance of satsumas, just picked 3 five gallon buckets. Started a kumquat last month. What yeast do you use for your citrus? We used a cuvee yeast on the Kumquat wine.


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## Johnd (Dec 13, 2020)

Hair of the dog said:


> Same situation with abundance of satsumas, just picked 3 five gallon buckets. Started a kumquat last month. What yeast do you use for your citrus? We used a cuvee yeast on the Kumquat wine.


I used K1-V1116 on this wine, which is pretty much my go to yeast on fruit wines.


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## hounddawg (Dec 16, 2020)

Johnd said:


> I used K1-V1116 on this wine, which is pretty much my go to yeast on fruit wines.


do them have seeds, a ole boy gave me 8 from his dads tree in Florida, but for eating, they was good, 2 days ,, 4 each day, about half the size of what i know as a orange. they might be something else, but the color and size looked the same, they was new to me,
Dawg


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## Johnd (Dec 17, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> do them have seeds, a ole boy gave me 8 from his dads tree in Florida, but for eating, they was good, 2 days ,, 4 each day, about half the size of what i know as a orange. they might be something else, but the color and size looked the same, they was new to me,
> Dawg


Nope, no seeds in these. They’re actually some sort of seedless hybrid cross between satsuma and tangerine. This cross had a name on it when I bought it, but it’s been many years.......I cannot recall the name.


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 17, 2020)

I have done a citrus backbone with dandelion wine, ferment basement temp, yeast D47. The finished wine had bitter flavor notes, and lost the citrus aromatics, light yellow color. Sounded like what John had with his 2016 ferment.


Hair of the dog said:


> Same situation with abundance of satsumas, just picked 3 five gallon buckets. Started a kumquat last month. What yeast do you use for your citrus? We used a cuvee yeast on the Kumquat wine.


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## Johnd (Dec 17, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> I have done a citrus backbone with dandelion wine, ferment basement temp, yeast D47. The finished wine had bitter flavor notes, and lost the citrus aromatics, light yellow color. Sounded like what John had with his 2016 ferment.


After finally tossing the experiment, I decided that the issue was fermenting with the pulp as part of the must. Should I ever do this type of wine again, I'll treat it more like a white wine from grapes than a red wine from grapes, peel the citrus, mash to release the juice, press off of the pulp / skins, and start my fermenting from that point....


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## hounddawg (Dec 17, 2020)

Johnd said:


> Nope, no seeds in these. They’re actually some sort of seedless hybrid cross between satsuma and tangerine. This cross had a name on it when I bought it, but it’s been many years.......I cannot recall the name.


YEP neither did them that i got. thanks.
Dawg


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