# For Norton vintners



## jswordy (Sep 21, 2013)

125 pounds of Norton yields ~ 12 gallons of must when run through a crusher-destemmer.



 

I was quite pleased to find it at ~20 Brix / 1.080 SSG when I got it home. 6 ounces of French medium oak in, and I pop the yeast in tomorrow. This is the first must I have not had to chaptalize, IIRC. If I had waited one more week, the grapes would have been gone by. Perfect timing, and a discount on the price, too!


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## geek (Sep 21, 2013)

How much you paid? Crushing included?


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Sep 21, 2013)

WOW I've done 100# and gotten about 5 gallons... all skin and seeds...LOL


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## cmason1957 (Sep 21, 2013)

That is a great yield. I did about 110 pounds and got just over 7 gallons. After pressing. But it sure does taste good. I had to add just a bit of sugar to mine.


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## jswordy (Sep 21, 2013)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> WOW I've done 100# and gotten about 5 gallons... all skin and seeds...LOL


 
Oh not these Southern Nortons. Small berries but they had nice flesh. The wet year down here didn't hurt, either. Man they are sweet. Way sweeter than I expected.


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## jswordy (Sep 21, 2013)

cmason1957 said:


> That is a great yield. I did about 110 pounds and got just over 7 gallons. After pressing. But it sure does taste good. I had to add just a bit of sugar to mine.


 
Yep, not looking forward to pressing in my lil 2-gallon press.  

I was so danged happy they had a destemmer, I almost  my pants. Destemming was no charge. Motorized, too!

I expect to get about 7 gallons finished. Prolly do a second pressing wine, too. Stretches the cost out.


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## cmason1957 (Sep 21, 2013)

Gosh, a two gallon press and I was complaining and bemoaning about my 3.5 press. On the plus side, my Norton's only took 2 fillings to get the all pressed. Don't let my wife get started about the 300 pounds of Chambourcin. That seemed to take forever to get through.


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## jswordy (Sep 22, 2013)

Well, even a dose of k meta last night couldn't stop a spontaneous fermentation from getting going. I dumped some hydrated 212 in it this morning at about 8 and its bubbling along nicely now. Pectic enzyme did its work. The must is now a nice blue color, and the 212 should extract even more. Happy camper.


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## deboard (Sep 22, 2013)

I picked my nortons last sunday, they were just shy of 24 brix. I only got about 50 lbs though, so I don't expect a lot of wine. But it's the first time I got enough to make just Norton wine. I'm hoping the high brix will mean the acid is lower, I haven't checked it yet. 

I did k-meta and cold soaked them for 2 days before pitching yeast. I was surprised it didn't take off by itself, but it started quickly after adding the RC-212.


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## jswordy (Sep 22, 2013)

deboard said:


> I picked my nortons last sunday, they were just shy of 24 brix. I only got about 50 lbs though, so I don't expect a lot of wine. But it's the first time I got enough to make just Norton wine. I'm hoping the high brix will mean the acid is lower, I haven't checked it yet.
> 
> I did k-meta and cold soaked them for 2 days before pitching yeast. I was surprised it didn't take off by itself, but it started quickly after adding the RC-212.


 
Vineyard said mine were just shy of 25; hydrometer said they were around 20. They were at 1.080 and that's all I need to know. I tested acid by eating a few. Very mellow.


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## deboard (Sep 22, 2013)

jswordy said:


> Vineyard said mine were just shy of 25; hydrometer said they were around 20. They were at 1.080 and that's all I need to know. I tested acid by eating a few. Very mellow.



I only did the refractometer reading, so I don't know what my hydrometer would have said. I'll be using it when it's close to done though. I taste tested mine and they were super sweet, not tart, so I really hope the acid is good. I'll adjust later if I need it though.

I did have about a pound of Noirette grapes that I added, my plan is to make a blend once the Noirette vines start producing more. So it's not quite a pure Norton


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Sep 23, 2013)

Let us know how much you get after racking it into the carboy. Last batch of Norton I did there were 3" of seeds in the bottom of the bucket.


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## jswordy (Sep 23, 2013)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> Let us know how much you get after racking it into the carboy. Last batch of Norton I did there were 3" of seeds in the bottom of the bucket.



You know I will.


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## jswordy (Sep 23, 2013)

deboard said:


> I only did the refractometer reading, so I don't know what my hydrometer would have said. I'll be using it when it's close to done though. I taste tested mine and they were super sweet, not tart, so I really hope the acid is good. I'll adjust later if I need it though.
> 
> I did have about a pound of Noirette grapes that I added, my plan is to make a blend once the Noirette vines start producing more. So it's not quite a pure Norton



That was my experience in tasting them, too. I was very surprised; expected more tart. I think using the oak, I will be good without adjustment. We'll see.

I always wait until the very latest I possibly can to harvest. I was maybe a tiny bit too late this year on the Nortons. But the grapes are so much sweeter just before they go over the edge to being no good. I may pick muscadines next weekend, if I can get away a couple hours.


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## jswordy (Sep 28, 2013)

Today was pressing day.





Total yield: 8 1/2 gallons





I had to use those gallon bungs again. If that wine tastes like the bung, I will be PISSED!

Finished at 1.000 - just exactly what the commercial Nortons are at. I do not think it will need a pH adjustment. 

Enjoying a primary glass now. The French oak is really coming through. This will be really nice in about 6-10 months.


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## deboard (Sep 28, 2013)

I pressed my Norton yesterday, I only ended up with 2.5 gallons of wine though. The fermentation was nearly done (just a shade above 1.000), so I dropped some Lalvin Bacchus MLF bacteria in.


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## jswordy (Sep 28, 2013)

I don't do MLF so it'll be interesting to see how that works out for ya.

I wanted badly to do a second pressing wine out of these, they clearly can stand it, but it's calving time soon on the farm, we have visitors coming end of October, etc., so my time was too constrained. Next time.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Sep 28, 2013)

get a box of latex gloves when pressing, you don't end up with purple hands.


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## jswordy (Sep 29, 2013)

A little One Step clears it right up.


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## lawrstin (Oct 1, 2013)

Is Norton typically high in TA, although the Ph and SG levels are normal?


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## jswordy (Oct 11, 2013)

The gallon bung rubber taste mystery is solved. Just pulled a sample from one of my gallons. I don't give a snot what Midwest Supplies says -- YUP ... tastes like the rubber! 

DON'T buy them and DON'T use them. I replaced the airlocks with caps. Hope I can get that taste out, or there goes 2 gallons of wine.


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## GreginND (Oct 11, 2013)

I just pressed 100 pounds of Baltica this evening on my #25 press - SG is 1.000. I got 7.5 gallons of pressed wine from it. No MLF or oak on this one. It is a light flavored red wine meant to drink young while it still has it's fresh cherry notes. Color is pretty dark though. I may add just a tidge (yes, a tidge) of sugar at the end to bring out the fruit. We'll see. My first time with this grape.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Oct 11, 2013)

how is yours so light? mine looks like ink, and can not see through it even in a glass.


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## GreginND (Oct 11, 2013)

Are you asking me? The baltica is definitely not light in color. It's deep inky red right now. I said it is light in flavor.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Oct 12, 2013)

I was looking at the photo of the wine in the glass. You can see through it.


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## jswordy (Oct 14, 2013)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> I was looking at the photo of the wine in the glass. You can see through it.



If you're talking about my wineglass photo, I think you are "seeing" an optical illusion. You can't see through it.


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## Snafflebit (Oct 15, 2013)

lawrstin said:


> Is Norton typically high in TA, although the Ph and SG levels are normal?



I would like to hear your experience with Norton TA, pH, Brix also. I have a farm near Springfield, MO and considered buying a few Norton to test what critters eat it and how the grape perform. I really like the wine, it has an earthy quality. I wish connoisseurs liked it.


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## lawrstin (Oct 15, 2013)

I highly recommend Norton. These grapes come from St James, Missouri.


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## GreginND (Oct 15, 2013)

snafflekid said:


> I really like the wine, it has an earthy quality. I wish connoisseurs liked it.



I agree. I've had some fantastic nortons from MO. And some excellent ports as well.


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## jswordy (Oct 15, 2013)

snafflekid said:


> I would like to hear your experience with Norton TA, pH, Brix also. I have a farm near Springfield, MO and considered buying a few Norton to test what critters eat it and how the grape perform. I really like the wine, it has an earthy quality. I wish connoisseurs liked it.



Um, I am not that kind of winemaker, so I doubt I'll help you much. The test-strip pH of the one Alabama commercial bottle I have opened is 4.5 and the pH of mine is very close, at between 4.0-4.5. I have two more commercial bottles, from Missouri and Virginia, to open and test yet.

Vineyard said 25 Brix as I picked. I got 20 Brix on the hydrometer. Brix and Norton, I have found out through research, are very difficult chums who do not always get along. The very high solids content of the grape juice makes accurate Brix readings really hard. My hydrometer Brix reading was taken from the just-crushed juice, which was basically clear and only slightly tinged with color. I did not see how the vineyard took its Brix reading on the refractometer.

I agree, I love the wine (which compelled me to make it) and it is a good dry wine to offer people who otherwise might not drink a dry. Not all like it but it is more approachable IMO for a sweet wine drinker than others, maybe because it likes to finish at 1.000 with a bare touch of residual sweetness. The grape has an affinity for oak, and that sometimes leads too many vintners to over-oak it. As you saw, I used chips in primary and I plan to leave it at that.

Plus, it fulfills one of my desires in grape winemaking, to use grapes that originate only in the United States.

In other research, I found it appears many vintners of this grape say the wine is best at between 1 and 3 years of age, but tends to slightly lose quality after 3 years and declines more rapidly after about the 5-6 year mark. This is my first batch, so I have no firsthand knowledge of that. I've just read it.

After long carboy residency, I do plan to cold stabilize this, and see what I get by way of tartrate crystals. I do that now with any grape wine I make. It's easy insurance against crystals in the bottles.

Oh yes, I removed the rubber bungs from my gallons just quickly enough, it seems. The smell is already gone from the wine. I have not tasted, but that is encouraging,.


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## Kraffty (Oct 15, 2013)

Regarding the small rubber bungs and smell, I've used them on probably 4 diff wines and have the same very noticeable smell BUT I believe it's just the air that takes on the smell. Once you pull them it disappears and same with the taste after giving it a slight stir. It also seems like it's just a problem with new bungs, once they are used and aged some they go pretty neutral.
Mike


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## jswordy (Oct 15, 2013)

Kraffty said:


> Regarding the small rubber bungs and smell, I've used them on probably 4 diff wines and have the same very noticeable smell BUT I believe it's just the air that takes on the smell. Once you pull them it disappears and same with the taste after giving it a slight stir. It also seems like it's just a problem with new bungs, once they are used and aged some they go pretty neutral.
> Mike



I wish that were true for long-aged wines. I did an apple for 3 months with them. It took a year to get the taste back out. That's when i contacted Midwest and was told it was my yeast, my sanitation, my winemaking --- but NOT their product. Um, wrong? Yep. WRONG!

I'm just glad I was suspicious enough to check early. I've checked on buying silicone but can't find them for gallons. And they're pricey.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Oct 15, 2013)

jswordy said:


> I wish that were true for long-aged wines. I did an apple for 3 months with them. It took a year to get the taste back out. That's when i contacted Midwest and was told it was my yeast, my sanitation, my winemaking --- but NOT their product. Um, wrong? Yep. WRONG!
> 
> I'm just glad I was suspicious enough to check early. I've checked on buying silicone but can't find them for gallons. And they're pricey.



I've got them :http://brewandwinesupply.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_29&product_id=1218


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## Snafflebit (Oct 16, 2013)

jswordy said:


> Um, I am not that kind of winemaker, so I doubt I'll help you much. The test-strip pH of the one Alabama commercial bottle I have opened is 4.5 and the pH of mine is very close, at between 4.0-4.5. I have two more commercial bottles, from Missouri and Virginia, to open and test yet.



I recall that Norton has a naturally high pH and also that they benefit from aging, which seems counter-intuitive. I have never drank a young Norton, usually 2 year old commercial Nortons. The taste lacks the malic acid bite but that could be due to MLF at the winery. I have not tried my less wine loving friends out on Norton (the ones who call my fine California reds "vinegar") Seems worth a shot. 

I would love to try some vines next spring. The soils around the farm are red clay if you dig deep enough and I worry the grapes could get iron problems.


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## jswordy (Oct 16, 2013)

snafflekid said:


> I recall that Norton has a naturally high pH and also that they benefit from aging, which seems counter-intuitive. I have never drank a young Norton, usually 2 year old commercial Nortons. The taste lacks the malic acid bite but that could be due to MLF at the winery. I have not tried my less wine loving friends out on Norton (the ones who call my fine California reds "vinegar") Seems worth a shot.
> 
> I would love to try some vines next spring. The soils around the farm are red clay if you dig deep enough and I worry the grapes could get iron problems.



Well, there I might be able to help you. The Alabama soils where these Nortons are growing are red clay through and through, and the vines are vigorous and produce a good crop.


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## jswordy (Oct 16, 2013)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> I've got them :http://brewandwinesupply.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_29&product_id=1218



Doug, but here's the pricey part: $11.98 + 5.80 = $17.78 / 2 = $8.89 each

The rubber ones are 77 cents. I just need to find some that don't stink, like the old black laboratory supply stoppers.

We plan a day-trip to Birmingham, AL, which has a nice brew store I have never been to. Hopefully they'll stock some better ones.

UNDER EDIT: Found the black ones: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007L3Q4O0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## lawrstin (Oct 26, 2013)

The fine lees just keep coming but the Norton stays dark. Only in America,,,,, Vitis Labrusca!


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