# South African Grapes - Harford Vineyard (MD)



## Boatboy24 (Feb 17, 2016)

Just got notice last night that Harford is offering South African grapes again this year. Grapes will be Pinotage, Sauvignon Blanc, Cab Sauv, Merlot, and Syrah. Due to hot, dry weather in December, it will be an early harvest; with Pinotage and Sauv Blanc arriving in late march, and the rest in late April.


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## geek (Feb 17, 2016)

are you jumping on the wagon Jim?


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 17, 2016)

geek said:


> are you jumping on the wagon Jim?



Probably not this year. I've got my spring harvest plans pretty much nailed down and am going Chilean. Harford being almost 2 hours each way prevents me from wanting to make multiple trips. 

But I just remembered: @heatherd did their Pinotage last year. I wonder how its coming along.


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## heatherd (Feb 17, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Probably not this year. I've got my spring harvest plans pretty much nailed down and am going Chilean. Harford being almost 2 hours each way prevents me from wanting to make multiple trips.
> 
> But I just remembered: @heatherd did their Pinotage last year. I wonder how its coming along.



@Boatboy24
It is true, I did the pinotage. It doesn't taste all that good yet, but it's my understanding that many commercial pinotage wines have a strange taste. Mine ended up a little skunky. I haven't tried it lately though.

I would definitely try a different varietal.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 17, 2016)

heatherd said:


> @Boatboy24
> It is true, I did the pinotage. It doesn't taste all that good yet, but it's my understanding that many commercial pinotage wines have a strange taste. Mine ended up a little skunky. I haven't tried it lately though.
> 
> I would definitely try a different varietal.



I would definitely not make a Pinotage unless one is sure he or she likes the taste of either Pinotage or Cinsault. I do, but they are not a run-of-the-mill grapes!


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## heatherd (Feb 18, 2016)

sour_grapes said:


> I would definitely not make a Pinotage unless one is sure he or she likes the taste of either Pinotage or Cinsault. I do, but they are not a run-of-the-mill grapes!



True, and I tasted commercial pinotage to know what I was getting into. I bought a high-end and a low-end version from my local liquor store (which I am very lucky they carry pinotage at all, much less in several price points) and liked them both.

Then mine tasted skunky.

And then I read an article that it is common to put a penny in a glass of pinotage when you drink it to deal with the skunkiness in commercial wines.

Anyway, I would steer clear of this varietal myself, but any of the others would be good to try. I suspect South African Sauvignon Blanc would be quite tasty.

Harford only has grapes from SA, not juice buckets, so whatever you do would be an all-grape batch.


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## balassley (Feb 20, 2016)

Jim, do you have to call Harford to preorder grapes and/or juice buckets, or does the website allow for preorder on X date? I'd like to try making wine from grapes (have only worked with kits), but don't feel like waiting till September to beg Loudoun vineyards for grapes. Thanks in advance.


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## heatherd (Feb 20, 2016)

balassley said:


> Jim, do you have to call Harford to preorder grapes and/or juice buckets, or does the website allow for preorder on X date? I'd like to try making wine from grapes (have only worked with kits), but don't feel like waiting till September to beg Loudoun vineyards for grapes. Thanks in advance.



I have ordered from Harford several times so can answer. The website goes live to preorder, you pay half up front online, and then you'll get an email when the grapes are likely to be ready for pick-up. Last you'll get an email when they have arrived. The vineyard opens special hours to facilitate pick-up, so you'll want to let them know when you are coming. When you get there you'll pay the other half.

Crush/destem: if you want this put it in the notes for your order. It's $25. They'll do it for you on the day you pick up. I get this done because it's easier for me.

Bring your own buckets for grapes. The juice comes in pails, but the South African harvest is only grapes.

They sell yeast and malolactic bacteria there, and the winemaker (Kevin) can suggest a yeast pairing for you. If you want malolactic, let them know in advance and they can order.

Also, their website has instructions for making wine from grapes that are very useful.

They do not adjust pH, acid, brix, inoculate, etc. The grapes and juice are unaltered and fresh.

They grow grapes there, and they bring in grapes and juice from all over. They sell their own grapes, which are merlot, traimenette, and a few other types. I got Maryland Seyval grapes there last harvest, and it is very tasty.

I really love Harford for their customer service and the fact that I can get Italian, Californian, Maryland, Chilean, and South African juice and grapes. Plus the prices are really good. Most juice pails are $52.00, and they only do pick up so you're not paying shipping.


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## balassley (Feb 20, 2016)

heatherd said:


> I have ordered from Harford several times so can answer. The website goes live to preorder, you pay half up front online, and then you'll get an email when the grapes are likely to be ready for pick-up. Last you'll get an email when they have arrived. The vineyard opens special hours to facilitate pick-up, so you'll want to let them know when you are coming. When you get there you'll pay the other half.
> 
> Crush/destem: if you want this put it in the notes for your order. It's $25. They'll do it for you on the day you pick up. I get this done because it's easier for me.
> 
> ...


Very useful information. Thank you. Can't wait till the site opens for preorder!


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 21, 2016)

balassley said:


> Very useful information. Thank you. Can't wait till the site opens for preorder!



IIRC, the email from Harford said the SA Grapes could only be ordered by calling. 

Welcome to WMT, by the way. Where in Loudon are you? I'm in Fairfax County - just a few miles south-east of Dulles. I'm working with a co-worker who is a 'member' out at 8 Chains in Waterford and knows the winemaker. He has told her he's willing to let me 'piggy-back' on his order of Washington grapes this fall. I'm hoping that comes to fruition.


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## balassley (Feb 21, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> IIRC, the email from Harford said the SA Grapes could only be ordered by calling.
> 
> Welcome to WMT, by the way. Where in Loudon are you? I'm in Fairfax County - just a few miles south-east of Dulles. I'm working with a co-worker who is a 'member' out at 8 Chains in Waterford and knows the winemaker. He has told her he's willing to let me 'piggy-back' on his order of Washington grapes this fall. I'm hoping that comes to fruition.


I'm in Ashburn. I just recently (like 2 weeks ago) decided to give grapes a try. I've been buying my kits from Kettles & Grains in Leesburg - not cheap but I like supporting local small business. He's mostly catering to the beer crowd, as the name implies, but he carries what I need for home wine making and will order any kit I want. Anyhow, he mentioned that the owner of Philip Carter Vineyard had a pickup in March and that he'd ask about getting me grapes. Also, the owner of Two Twisted Posts offered to give me grapes last year, but I didn't follow up with her because I didn't really feel I was ready for grapes. I plan to contact her in July/September to ask if I could help with the harvest and take some of the grapes for myself. I'll post if/when K&G gets back to me.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 21, 2016)

balassley said:


> I'm in Ashburn. I just recently (like 2 weeks ago) decided to give grapes a try. I've been buying my kits from Kettles & Grains in Leesburg - not cheap but I like supporting local small business. He's mostly catering to the beer crowd, as the name implies, but he carries what I need for home wine making and will order any kit I want. Anyhow, he mentioned that the owner of Philip Carter Vineyard had a pickup in March and that he'd ask about getting me grapes. Also, the owner of Two Twisted Posts offered to give me grapes last year, but I didn't follow up with her because I didn't really feel I was ready for grapes. I plan to contact her in July/September to ask if I could help with the harvest and take some of the grapes for myself. I'll post if/when K&G gets back to me.



Keep me posted, and I'll do the same if you're interested in Washington grapes this fall (assuming I can get the 8 Chains connection working). 

Ashburn? We'll you're only a few miles away. If you're interested in doing a wine swap, let me know.


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## balassley (Feb 21, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Keep me posted, and I'll do the same if you're interested in Washington grapes this fall (assuming I can get the 8 Chains connection working).
> 
> Ashburn? We'll you're only a few miles away. If you're interested in doing a wine swap, let me know.


sounds good, and I would do a wine swap, but sadly my 1st 2 kits (Eclipse Merlot & Petit Verdot) didn't turn out so well - didn't properly degas before bottling. Rookie mistake. Never again though. I bought an AllInOne and now know to warm wine to 75 degrees when attempting to degas. Right now I'm working Eclipse Cab Sauv and a Nebbiolo, plus an Icewine. Hopefully come late April I'll be working SA Syrah grapes. BTW, I think they are announcing the Virgina Governors Case winners tomorrow.


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## balassley (Feb 22, 2016)

Heather/Jim, I spoke with someone at Harford today and they mentioned there's no guarantee they'll even get SA grapes - all depends on whether they get enough interest. She took my name and noted I was interested in 100 pounds of the Syrah.

I feel dumb asking this, but this is a 1st for me - how many buckets would I need to show up with for 100 pounds (assuming they crush/destem for me)? I'd be driving an Accord or Camry, so the bucket size would have to fit that. Just curious what you do? Also, what size primary fermenter should I have for this? Having only used kits, I've only ever needed my 6.5 gallon bucket. I figure I better prepare now.


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## ceeaton (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm pretty new to this too and went to Harford for the first time last spring. Here's an image of what I did for 100 lbs of grapes I got locally this fall. You can pick these up at Lowe's or Home Depot, I'm pretty sure they are under $30. Hope that helps, always good to plan ahead.

BTW, this is in the back seat of a Toyota Corolla, you should be fine in your Accord.

Edit: I think this is a 20 gallon brute, forgot to mention that. They come in 30 and I think 40 gallon ones also.


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## balassley (Feb 22, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> I'm pretty new to this too and went to Harford for the first time last spring. Here's an image of what I did for 100 lbs of grapes I got locally this fall. You can pick these up at Lowe's or Home Depot, I'm pretty sure they are under $30. Hope that helps, always good to plan ahead.
> 
> BTW, this is in the back seat of a Toyota Corolla, you should be fine in your Accord.
> 
> Edit: I think this is a 20 gallon brute, forgot to mention that. They come in 30 and I think 40 gallon ones also.


Thanks Craig. Glad to see the 20 gal worked just fine for you. I've seen previous posts about only buying grey/white (food-grade) ones. I'll pick one up soon.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 22, 2016)

I ferment grapes in 20gal Brutes and they will hold up to 140lbs. As far as transport, I do them in 6 and 5 gallon buckets. I plan on 3 per 100lbs, but that's a little overkill. Last fall, I had 3 lugs of Cab, 3 of Syrah and 2 of Petit Sirah in the back of my Outback with room for a few more buckets - maybe 5 or 6 if I put the back seats down. You should easily be able to fit 3 in your car. Only question would be trunk or back seat. And that would depend on how deep the trunk is.


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## balassley (Mar 3, 2016)

Harford emailed me last night and said their supplier notified them that they will not be getting SA Syrah due to excessive heat damage this year. I assume this means all SA grape varietals? The email noted they'll get Syrah from Chile in mid or late May.


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## heatherd (Mar 3, 2016)

balassley said:


> Harford emailed me last night and said their supplier notified them that they will not be getting SA Syrah due to excessive heat damage this year. I assume this means all SA grape varietals? The email noted they'll get Syrah from Chile in mid or late May.



@balassley 
Thanks for letting everyone know!


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## Brian (Mar 8, 2016)

*Hartford*

I got my email from Hartford and they will be getting the Pinotage and I did order 80 lbs of them so I hope I have better luck than others posted. I am looking forward to the grapes. I love the Pinotage that I have tasted before both kits and commercial so lets give her a try right? haha Wish me luck. I used them last year for juices and was very happy with the Californian and you are correct their customer service is awesome. I will be buying from them for a long time, even though I have to drive about an hour each way the quality is worth it.


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## ceeaton (Mar 9, 2016)

Brian said:


> ... even though I have to drive about an hour each way the quality is worth it.



Where in York are you that it took an hour to get down there? I think I got there in an hour and a quarter and I live North of East Berlin.

I do love their customer service. They really cater to the home winemaker. They know that if they treat you right you'll be back. I tried them because @heatherd and @Boatboy24 gave such raving reviews, and they were spot on with those reviews.

Be curious how your Pinotage turns out, keep us in the loop!


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## balassley (Mar 9, 2016)

I placed an order for 100ish pounds of Chilean Syrah. Can't wait! Bought a WineEasy recently and am eager to try it out.


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## balassley (Mar 12, 2016)

Jim, you posted this in Late 2013 when you were prepping for your 1st crush:

My plan:

1) Have the grapes crushed/destemmed
~I assume I'll need 2-3 five or six gallon buckets to hold the must
~I'll give the buckets a spritz of Meta before leaving and seal them with lids, so they'll sanitize on the trip up.
2) Add sulfite to the must
~I'll probably do this right at the winery, before I start the 2 hour drive home. How much should I be adding?
3) Measure TA/SG/pH when I get home and adjust as needed
~I have tartaric acid and some K Carbonate on the way
4) After 24 hours or so, based on temp, pitch yeast
~I'm going to use D80 and D254 on this, since I'll have at least 2 buckets

I'm curious... Is there anything you'd do differently? I'm now prepping for my 1st crush and would appreciate any advice you might have, especially what additives to have on hand. Appreciate it.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 12, 2016)

balassley said:


> Jim, you posted this in Late 2013 when you were prepping for your 1st crush:
> 
> My plan:
> 
> ...



I put an ounce or two of Meta in the bucket and seal the lid, dumping it out when I get up there. I don't add sulfite to the must until I get home. I do make sure I have tartaric acid on hand. I've only needed potassium carbonate once. And that was post fermentation.


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## heatherd (Mar 12, 2016)

balassley said:


> Jim, you posted this in Late 2013 when you were prepping for your 1st crush:
> 
> My plan:
> 
> ...



I would use pectic enzyme as well, and then wait 24 hours for yeast.


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## Brian (Mar 18, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Where in York are you that it took an hour to get down there? I think I got there in an hour and a quarter and I live North of East Berlin.
> 
> I do love their customer service. They really cater to the home winemaker. They know that if they treat you right you'll be back. I tried them because @heatherd and @Boatboy24 gave such raving reviews, and they were spot on with those reviews.
> 
> Be curious how your Pinotage turns out, keep us in the loop!


 

I actually live just SE of East Berlin in Thomasville so it took about an hour. I brought the grapes home on Sun and put them in my 20 gallon fermentation bucket and tested the Brix it was 25 so that is awesome checked the PH it was a bit high so I added some acid, SO2, Yeast energizer, and nutrient, peptic enzime and let sit over night.. I also added some French oak. I pitched the yeast on Monday night, (chose red star Pasteur red) and it is doing its thing. It is about 60-65 in my downstairs area so it will ferment slow which is what I heard should be done with Pinotage. So I will let you know how it goes..


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## ceeaton (Mar 18, 2016)

Brian said:


> I actually live just SE of East Berlin in Thomasville so it took about an hour. I brought the grapes home on Sun and put them in my 20 gallon fermentation bucket and tested the Brix it was 25 so that is awesome checked the PH it was a bit high so I added some acid, SO2, Yeast energizer, and nutrient, peptic enzime and let sit over night.. I also added some French oak. I pitched the yeast on Monday night, (chose red star Pasteur red) and it is doing its thing. It is about 60-65 in my downstairs area so it will ferment slow which is what I heard should be done with Pinotage. So I will let you know how it goes..



Wow, you are pretty close to me. I live at Lake Meade. Could get into your neck of the woods in about 25 minutes (takes me 5 just to get out of the Lake).

Yes, keep me apprised. I'd love to sample at some point and could bring down a few of anything you want to try. I've never had a Pinotage and heard it is an acquired taste and would love to try it. I have a young Dornfelder that is a not too often seen grape that is rather interesting. Still a little herbaceous in character but a nice deep dark red wine.

I actually just tipped the carboy a bit that has a Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec blend I did last Spring from Harford's Chilean grapes/juice bucket. I have already bottled 1/2 the batch and added Tannin Complex and Tannin Extra Riche to the 1/2 I still have in the carboy. Just such an incredible difference between the two. Both are very drinkable for being less than a year old.

Hopefully we can cross paths and share some wine at some point!


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## Brian (Mar 22, 2016)

Absolutely Craig! We will need to get together and compare notes. I drive Rt234 to Carlisle every day so I pass right by. It takes me about 15 min to get to the intersection by the church so we are not far at all. It is a pretty busy weekend this weekend but if you want PM me and we can possibly work something out and have a chat.


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