# Star Sans / K-meta Pros and Cons



## TonyP (Apr 16, 2012)

Star Sans and K-meta are both used for sanitizing. It appears to me that Star Sans is the preferred sanitizer for brewing and K-meta is the favorite for wine making. I've been doing some research to understand why. Here's some points I've come up with and I'd appreciate your comments.

Star Sans: Seems to provide superior sanitizing, no need to rinse, works by vapors so not as useful for hydrometer, thermometer, more expensive, extra item to have, not harmful to user.

K-meta: Probably not as good at sanitizing but good enough, not necessary to rinse but wine makers often do to control sulfitating, can be used easily for everything, less expensive, already on hand for final sulfitating, some people get a reaction to k-meta fumes particularly those with asthma.


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## Mcamnl (Apr 16, 2012)

The fumes from KMeta really aggravate my asthma so I switched to OneStep for my sanitizer. Used it for the first time yesterday on bottles for my peach wine.


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## robie (Apr 16, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Star Sans and K-meta are both used for sanitizing. It appears to me that Star Sans is the preferred sanitizer for brewing and K-meta is the favorite for wine making. I've been doing some research to understand why. Here's some points I've come up with and I'd appreciate your comments.
> 
> Star Sans: Seems to provide superior sanitizing, no need to rinse, works by vapors so not as useful for hydrometer, thermometer, more expensive, extra item to have, not harmful to user.
> 
> K-meta: Probably not as good at sanitizing but good enough, not necessary to rinse but wine makers often do to control sulfitating, can be used easily for everything, less expensive, already on hand for final sulfitating, some people get a reaction to k-meta fumes particularly those with asthma.



You have somethings backwards.
StarSan is a contact sanitizer and by no means a fumes sanitizer. Kmeta sanitizes more from its fumes than contact.

StarSan is very, very (dirt) cheap. I have been using an 8 oz bottle for three years now and it is still half full. A little bit of the concentrate goes a very long way.

For spraying, I use StarSan 5 to 1 over Kmeta.

StarSan works great is a spray bottle. Any surface it is sprayed on is sanitized by the contact with the solution. So, it works great for spoons, cups, hydrometers, thermometers, ..etc. I run it through my hoses right before I use them.

Kmeta works best when it can be applied to the inside surface of something like a carboy, jar, bucket, hoses; then sealed up so the fumes can work. Kmeta is the preferred sanitizer for one's bottle at bottling time.

Neither Kmeta nor StarSan have to be rinsed. Some do rinse, depending on the surface and circumstances. (I always rinse both, except for Kmeta at bottling time.)


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## TonyP (Apr 16, 2012)

Mcamnl said:


> The fumes from KMeta really aggravate my asthma so I switched to OneStep for my sanitizer. Used it for the first time yesterday on bottles for my peach wine.



I know people use One Step for sanitizing in wine making with good results. Some (including me) have been hesitant because it's basically Oxyclean and potentially adds oxygen to the process, albeit in tiny doses.


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## TonyP (Apr 16, 2012)

Robie, your'e probably right on fumes. My understanding was that gas in bubbles did sanitizing, but I'm most likely incorrect.


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## robie (Apr 16, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Robie, your'e probably right on fumes. My understanding was that gas in bubbles did sanitizing, but I'm most likely incorrect.



It only takes one whiff of StarSan bubbles and one whiff of Kmeta fumes to answer this. 

One disadvantage of StarSan is is does bubble up when poured. This is not an issue when it is sprayed onto a surface. I keep a sprayer of StarSan and a sprayer of Kmeta. I use the sprayer of StarSan much, much more often.


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## Cannew (Apr 19, 2012)

StarSan instructions of 1 oz to 5 gal, really makes it cheap. As I only mix one gal at a time, I maybe making it stronger than recommended.


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## digitaleye (Apr 19, 2012)

As I understand it KMBS doesn't truly sanitize but the gas of its evaporation creates an environment where microbial growth is inhibited or prevented. Seems it would work best in a closed environment. I usually use it to wash and clean bottles prior to bottling. I use Star-san for just about everything else, usually in sprayers but in bigger batches for cleaning all the gear. If you mix and dilute them to the proper amounts you shouldn't need to rinse anything after spraying or washing with either (especially star-san) and unless you're using purified water it seems you're kinda defeating the purpose by rinsing


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## robie (Apr 20, 2012)

digitaleye said:


> As I understand it KMBS doesn't truly sanitize but the gas of its evaporation creates an environment where microbial growth is inhibited or prevented. Seems it would work best in a closed environment. I usually use it to wash and clean bottles prior to bottling. I use Star-san for just about everything else, usually in sprayers but in bigger batches for cleaning all the gear. If you mix and dilute them to the proper amounts you shouldn't need to rinse anything after spraying or washing with either (especially star-san) and unless you're using purified water it seems you're kinda defeating the purpose by rinsing



In my case, rinsing with water is a personal preference, not a requirement. Not an arguable point, really.

Good, clean, drinkable water is considered sanitary. If there is any doubt about your water supply, don't rinse with it AND DON'T MAKE YOUR WINE WITH IT, EITHER.


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## TonyP (Apr 21, 2012)

For the most part, the answer here seems to be simple. K-Meta is used wine making (making it readily available) and is the preferred sanitizer in large scale wine making. Thus, it is popular for sanitizing in home wine making, as well. The cost per gallon difference between Star San and K-Meta does not seem to be significant to me, 30 cents versus 50 cents. Star San becomes far less expensive because it can be reused, making its cost more like 5-10 cents per gallon. K-Meta in liquid form, on the other hand, has a shelf life of only about a month.

I'm going with Star San for everything but bottles, not rinsing any of it.


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## Flem (Apr 21, 2012)

Actually, K-meta can be reused. As for K-meta shelf life, I have kept in sealed containers and spray bottles for several months.


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## TonyP (Apr 22, 2012)

Flem said:


> Actually, K-meta can be reused. As for K-meta shelf life, I have kept in sealed containers and spray bottles for several months.



Clearly K-meta solution can be reused, the issue is at what effectiveness. All the research I've done in recent days indicates that K-meta powder and solution loose effectiveness in a relatively short period of time. The loss in effectiveness is caused by contact to air and/or temperature, so if you keep the K-meta in a sealed container filled to the top at around 60 degrees you'll probably be OK for several months, but clearly at a loss in strength. Star San, on the other hand, can be reused almost indefinitely. 

Also, you mention storing in containers and spray bottles. I hope they're not plastic. K-meta breaks-down plastic, creating two problems. First, the break-down allows air to enter through the wall of the container. Beyond that, the break-down means that container particles are dissolving into the K-meta. Thus, your solution will contain plastic.

Here's an article from WineMaker Magazine that's pretty good:

http://winemakermag.com/stories/wiz...for-sanitizing-to-lose-its-strength-over-time

Tony


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## Julie (Apr 22, 2012)

TonyP, I want to thank you for starting this post. This was very informative and I love how you added the reference as well for anyone to read.

I learned a lot from this thread.


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## TonyP (Apr 22, 2012)

Julie, thanks for the note. I have an unrelated question for you I'll be sending later. On the issue of K-meta effectiveness, I'm wondering if the forum has a place to propose surveys or studies under a moderator. It would be good if a group could get together to study K-meta under differing storage and temperature situations. SO2 readings could be taken at the start and monthly. Then we'd have actual data to use. I just don't know how to suggest such a thing. Also, there's no wine making club in my area or I'd go that route.

Tony P.


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## Flem (Apr 22, 2012)

Thanks, for the research, Tony. Yep, my spray bottle is plastic. I go through enough of it that I don't worry about it breaking down the plastic. My corkidore is also a plastic, 5 gallon bucket wit the lid snapped down. I've had K-meta in the bucket for many, many months and when I open the lid, the smell would knock me on my arse. Thanks, again for your feedback.


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## Julie (Apr 22, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Julie, thanks for the note. I have an unrelated question for you I'll be sending later. On the issue of K-meta effectiveness, I'm wondering if the forum has a place to propose surveys or studies under a moderator. It would be good if a group could get together to study K-meta under differing storage and temperature situations. SO2 readings could be taken at the start and monthly. Then we'd have actual data to use. I just don't know how to suggest such a thing. Also, there's no wine making club in my area or I'd go that route.
> 
> Tony P.


 
I will check into this and let you know if we can do this.


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## jwolf99 (Apr 26, 2012)

So after reading the Wine Maker Mag article, it left me wondering if storing my excess k-meta solution in the refrigerator would help maintain its strength and effectiveness? Anyone?


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## LanMan (Apr 26, 2012)

Star-San for everything. 

Don't fear the foam


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## TonyP (Apr 27, 2012)

jwolf99 said:


> So after reading the Wine Maker Mag article, it left me wondering if storing my excess k-meta solution in the refrigerator would help maintain it's strength and and effectiveness? Anyone?



Refrigeration should help maintain potency, particularly in a full glass container. The concern I have is that K-meta looses some potency so you never know when the reduction becomes significant. Overall, I'm convinced Star sans is the superior sanitizer. It's still less expensive and sanitizes effectively.

Tony


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## Gedanken (Apr 27, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Also, you mention storing in containers and spray bottles. I hope they're not plastic. K-meta breaks-down plastic, creating two problems. First, the break-down allows air to enter through the wall of the container. Beyond that, the break-down means that container particles are dissolving into the K-meta. Thus, your solution will contain plastic.



Can you provide more information on this? I haven't been able to find any documents that indicate that k-meta would have this effect on plastic.


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## digitaleye (Apr 27, 2012)

robie said:


> Good, clean, drinkable water is considered sanitary. If there is any doubt about your water supply, don't rinse with it AND DON'T MAKE YOUR WINE WITH IT, EITHER.



The problem is that most municipal water supplies, while perfectly safe for human consumption, still have fair levels of microrganisms in them. On top of that, many chlorinate their water, which ads another compound that is not friendly to winemaking.

This is not an indictment of how you or anyone else cleans their stuff, and it will certainly vary depending on where one gets their water from, just IMHO its not a "generally" good idea to rinse after sanitizing for most folks.


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## TonyP (Apr 27, 2012)

Gedanken said:


> Can you provide more information on this? I haven't been able to find any documents that indicate that k-meta would have this effect on plastic.



Here's some information with references:

A) _STORAGE OF POTASSIUM METABISULPHITE SO2 is able to pass through some plastics; therefore, the powder is best stored in tightly closed glass containers, not in plastic baggies or vials. If it becomes damp, it will soon change to potassium sulphate, which is completely useless. Even if not damp it decays. It is best to buy a new supply every few months and use the old for sanitizing equipment. S12. _

http://www.allergiesasthmahelp.com/asthma-faq/mini-faq-for-sulphite-1398300.html

B) _Sulfiting agents producing sulfur dioxide when used to treat foods include sodium sulfite, sodium bisulfite, potassium bisulfite, sodium metabisulfite, and potassium metabisulfite. All are generally corrosive to food-processing equipment._

http://events.nace.org/library/corrosion/FoodIndustry/Food-corrosion.asp

I don't think this applies to all plastics, but determining which ones would take much analysis. For example, I believe food grade plastic would be OK, but I'm not certain.

Tony P.


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## Gedanken (Apr 27, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Here's some information with references:
> 
> A) _STORAGE OF POTASSIUM METABISULPHITE SO2 is able to pass through some plastics; therefore, the powder is best stored in tightly closed glass containers, not in plastic baggies or vials. If it becomes damp, it will soon change to potassium sulphate, which is completely useless. Even if not damp it decays. It is best to buy a new supply every few months and use the old for sanitizing equipment. S12. _
> 
> ...



I think food grade plastic is fine if I am reading this right. 

http://k-mac-plastics.net/data sheets/hdpe-chemical-resistance.htm


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## digitaleye (Apr 28, 2012)

Gedanken said:


> I think food grade plastic is fine if I am reading this right.
> 
> http://k-mac-plastics.net/data%20sheets/hdpe-chemical-resistance.htm




I believe you are. I buy my KMBS in bulk and it comes in small plastic drums so there clearly are plastics that are impervious to it. 

Also I use deep sided (plastic) photo-processing trays to clean gear. There are tons of them around, usually pretty cheap. They are designed to be chemically resistant and I've had no problems with the ones I use.


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## BobF (Apr 28, 2012)

I use kmeta w/citric acid to reduce the pH making it release fumes better and provide better contact effectiveness. I mix 1/2g at a time and store it in plastic and a plastic spray bottle for months.

A/O testing tells me that I'm not not losing strength/effectiveness even over periods of several months. My sinuses confirm the results of this testing.

I also make SO2 additions from a solution stored in glass. I periodically 'standardize' this solution via A/O and have found minimal loss of free SO2 over extended periods.

YMMV


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## TonyP (Apr 28, 2012)

From the last several posts it appears obvious K-meta can maintain potency under certain circumstances. I've suggested WineMakingTalk organize a study of this so we may someday have authoritative information.

Tony P


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## BobF (Apr 28, 2012)

TonyP said:


> From the last several posts it appears obvious K-meta can maintain potency under certain circumstances. I've suggested WineMakingTalk organize a study of this so we may someday have authoritative information.
> 
> Tony P



WMT is a web forum, not a person. As such, it would be hard for 'WMT' to organize anything. My suggestion is that YOU devise a test scenario, execute the testing and post results. At a minimum, you'll get feedback on your process. You might even get others to repeat your testing and post results to inform on repeatability.


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## Wade E (Apr 28, 2012)

Well put Bob. To add to this and whats been said above, plastic jugas for storing pre mixed sulfite is not a great idea. Ive personally had the sulfite eat through 2 of those jugs before I switched to glass.


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## TonyP (Apr 29, 2012)

BobF said:


> WMT is a web forum, not a person. As such, it would be hard for 'WMT' to organize anything. My suggestion is that YOU devise a test scenario, execute the testing and post results. At a minimum, you'll get feedback on your process. You might even get others to repeat your testing and post results to inform on repeatability.



Bob, thanks for your input. It really furthered everyone's wine making knowledge.

To paraphrase Mitt, web forums are people. My wording was like saying political parties organize fundraisers or the 5th grade organized a field trip. It's called personification. Glad to help.

Tony P


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## BobF (Apr 29, 2012)

TonyP said:


> Bob, thanks for your input. It really furthered everyone's wine making knowledge.
> 
> To paraphrase Mitt, web forums are people. My wording was like saying political parties organize fundraisers or the 5th grade organized a field trip. It's called personification. Glad to help.
> 
> Tony P



You're welcome. I'm anxiuosly awaiting the results of your analysis!


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## Paulietivo (Feb 25, 2015)

So basically star san is superior to sanitize with and k meta should be used for bottle sanitization. If using a Bottle Rinser (Sulfiter) with k meta, do the bottles have to be rinsed? k meta is added to wine already so I cant imagine having to rinse them out with such a small amount being in the bottle.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 25, 2015)

Paulietivo said:


> So basically star san is superior to sanitize with and k meta should be used for bottle sanitization. If using a Bottle Rinser (Sulfiter) with k meta, do the bottles have to be rinsed? k meta is added to wine already so I cant imagine having to rinse them out with such a small amount being in the bottle.



Right, don't rinse. Just let it drain upside down.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 26, 2015)

Perfect, thanks again Sour.


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