# First kit started tonight!



## Scott Harbison (Jul 18, 2018)

Well, I finally got the time to start my very first home made wine!
I started with a Fontana Premium Merlot kit.My primary is a Big Mouth Bubbler. I followed all of the directions except instead of filling it to 6 gallons, I only took it to 5.5 gallons. The other change I made was in pitching the yeast.(EC-1118) instead of re-hydrating as the directions instructed, I simply sprinkled the yeast in on top. I also added a 1/2 cup of oak chips.
My starting SG came in high at 1.092 (directions said should be between 1.07 - 1.08) I'm guessing the lower water volume effected the SG. If I'm looking at my conversion numbers right, the Brix is 21.99 and ABV is 12.9%. Does that sound about right?
Hopefully I've done everything correctly and all will go as planned. I'm open to any and all comments, suggestions and ideas!


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## Johnd (Jul 18, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> Well, I finally got the time to start my very first home made wine!
> I started with a Fontana Premium Merlot kit.My primary is a Big Mouth Bubbler. I followed all of the directions except instead of filling it to 6 gallons, I only took it to 5.5 gallons. The other change I made was in pitching the yeast.(EC-1118) instead of re-hydrating as the directions instructed, I simply sprinkled the yeast in on top. I also added a 1/2 cup of oak chips.
> My starting SG came in high at 1.092 (directions said should be between 1.07 - 1.08) I'm guessing the lower water volume effected the SG. If I'm looking at my conversion numbers right, the Brix is 21.99 and ABV is 12.9%. Does that sound about right?
> Hopefully I've done everything correctly and all will go as planned. I'm open to any and all comments, suggestions and ideas!



You’re on pretty safe ground, all air locked and covered up. Try not to spend too much time gazing blankly into the side of the Big Mouth watching the bubbles appear out of nowhere, or the bubbles burping rhythmically through the airlock, I’ve heard some people do that...........


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 18, 2018)

I have some tannin and considered putting some in the primary. Any thoughts if I should do that now or wait until secondary?


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## Johnd (Jul 18, 2018)

One of the benefits of adding tannins in primary, it that it helps bind the color in the wine. Since you’ve added oak chips, I see no reason to add tannin too, the tannins in the chips will do the job for you.

If down the road you decide you’d like a more tannic structure, there are finishing tannins made for just that purpose.


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## jumby (Jul 19, 2018)

Welcome to your new addiction!


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## Jal5 (Jul 19, 2018)

Welcome and have fun with it


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## tjgaul (Jul 19, 2018)

Ditto JohnD's thoughts. Great start! I'm still hypnotized by bubbles burping through an airlock. Could watch them for hours (possible exaggeration). Next best sound to a cork emerging from a bottleneck.

Good luck. Be Patient.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 19, 2018)

The waiting is the hardest part. BUT... to quote your LA neighbor who once said,

“Just buy more carboys, make more wine, and overwhelm yourself to the point where your wine ages simply because you don’t have the time. Procrastinators: this is your hobby!”

I can officially say I’ve fully reached this point too. 

(Quick Tip- Buy a 2nd hydromter. Because you WILL break yours. 100%)


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## Johnd (Jul 19, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> The waiting is the hardest part. BUT... to quote your LA neighbor who once said,
> 
> “Just buy more carboys, make more wine, and overwhelm yourself to the point where your wine ages simply because you don’t have the time. Procrastinators: this is your hobby!”
> 
> ...



Scott's going to have the opportunity to start where I wish that I would have, aging good kit wines in barrels. My first barrel, now neutral, is wineless, sitting in the cellar, full of sulfite water waiting for his first entry.......Lodi Ranch Cab.


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## dcbrown73 (Jul 19, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> The waiting is the hardest part. BUT... to quote your LA neighbor who once said,
> 
> “Just buy more carboys, make more wine, and overwhelm yourself to the point where your wine ages simply because you don’t have the time. Procrastinators: this is your hobby!”
> 
> ...



This is what I did, then another demon of the hobby perked it head up. All those carboys lead to a lot of bottled wine.....then you have to move! Movers (at least mine) won't move liquids. It's a good thing I was only two years and 25 cases of wine (still in boxes, not in racks!!!!) into it!


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## mainshipfred (Jul 19, 2018)

I still listen to the bubbles, infact I make wine in my shop but during the end of fermentation I bring them to my office and put a lid and air lock on. It's as soothing as listening to a waterfall. So the next batch starts today or tomorrow or are you waiting for the weekend?


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 19, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Scott's going to have the opportunity to start where I wish that I would have, aging good kit wines in barrels. My first barrel, now neutral, is wineless, sitting in the cellar, full of sulfite water waiting for his first entry.......Lodi Ranch Cab.


John, you're the master wine maker in our parts! I got lucky and found out how to contact you. My wife thought I was crazy for reaching out to you out of the blue. But I told her that it appeared you were passionate about the wine making and passionate people always like to discuss things they really care about! I certainly appreciate your kindness in helping out a rookie! Can't wait to get the Lodi Cab going!


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## Johnd (Jul 19, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> John, you're the master wine maker in our parts! I got lucky and found out how to contact you. My wife thought I was crazy for reaching out to you out of the blue. But I told her that it appeared you were passionate about the wine making and passionate people always like to discuss things they really care about! I certainly appreciate your kindness in helping out a rookie! Can't wait to get the Lodi Cab going!



If you weren't a little crazy, you wouldn't be starting this hobby!! I wish I'd had someone to lean on in the beginning, and was lucky enough to find this forum, with so many knowledgeable and helpful people. They helped me take the big steps from kits by the book all the way to crushing fresh grapes and making my own wine aged in barrels. 

If you want it, you're in line for the crash course, for less than the cost of an Eclipse kit, you can make 6 gallons of wine from fresh grapes this fall. This is my first year really having the supply chain on track and all of the tools needed to make it easy...............just say the word.


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## mainshipfred (Jul 19, 2018)

Johnd said:


> If you weren't a little crazy, you wouldn't be starting this hobby!! I wish I'd had someone to lean on in the beginning, and was lucky enough to find this forum, with so many knowledgeable and helpful people. They helped me take the big steps from kits by the book all the way to crushing fresh grapes and making my own wine aged in barrels.
> 
> If you want it, you're in line for the crash course, for less than the cost of an Eclipse kit, you can make 6 gallons of wine from fresh grapes this fall. This is my first year really having the supply chain on track and all of the tools needed to make it easy...............just say the word.



So did you get your C/D? I remember from another post you had justification. Was kind of surprised you didn't already have one. I agree, I have 2 all grape batches under my belt which are far superior to any kit or juice bucket I've made. Maybe with an occasional juice buckets it's all grape for me.


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## Kraffty (Jul 19, 2018)

First off, welcome to an awesome hobby/lifestyle. Second, I love reading someone's first experiences, ESPECIALLY when they've taken the time to get a little knowledge before opening the first kit up. It so improves your chances of success and in turn how great good you can become at winemaking. Lot's of good advice to be had and I'd put John D up there on the list. Keep us updated!
Mike


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## Johnd (Jul 19, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> So did you get your C/D? I remember from another post you had justification. Was kind of surprised you didn't already have one. I agree, I have 2 all grape batches under my belt which are far superior to any kit or juice bucket I've made. Maybe with an occasional juice buckets it's all grape for me.



Selected, but not purchased just yet......


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## Boatboy24 (Jul 19, 2018)

dcbrown73 said:


> This is what I did, then another demon of the hobby perked it head up. All those carboys lead to a lot of bottled wine.....then you have to move! Movers (at least mine) won't move liquids. It's a good thing I was only two years and 25 cases of wine (still in boxes, not in racks!!!!) into it!



I moved 3 years ago. Never gave a thought to any movers touching my wines. I moved ~22 cases of bottled wine and 6 or 7 full carboys (barrels were emptied for transport, then refilled upon their arrival). We had the new place for about 6 weeks before we actually moved, so I did most of this ahead of time.


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 20, 2018)

Johnd said:


> If you weren't a little crazy, you wouldn't be starting this hobby!! I wish I'd had someone to lean on in the beginning, and was lucky enough to find this forum, with so many knowledgeable and helpful people. They helped me take the big steps from kits by the book all the way to crushing fresh grapes and making my own wine aged in barrels.
> 
> If you want it, you're in line for the crash course, for less than the cost of an Eclipse kit, you can make 6 gallons of wine from fresh grapes this fall. This is my first year really having the supply chain on track and all of the tools needed to make it easy...............just say the word.


I'd love to do that, but I'll need a lot of hand holding! If you think you can stand all of my questions and lack of skills, I'm in.


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 20, 2018)

Kraffty said:


> First off, welcome to an awesome hobby/lifestyle. Second, I love reading someone's first experiences, ESPECIALLY when they've taken the time to get a little knowledge before opening the first kit up. It so improves your chances of success and in turn how great good you can become at winemaking. Lot's of good advice to be had and I'd put John D up there on the list. Keep us updated!
> Mike


Thanks Kraffty! I was excited to find JohnD here in our little small town, I'd always had an interest in trying to make my own wine, but really wasn't motivated enough to do it. When I found out about John and approached him about asking some questions, he was open and very generous with his time (and his wine!). After spending over an hour listening to his stories and asking some questions, I knew I was going to give this a try. JohnD seems intent on continuing to help me out....so I'm going to let him!


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## mainshipfred (Jul 20, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> I'd love to do that, but I'll need a lot of hand holding! If you think you can stand all of my questions and lack of skills, I'm in.



With not knowing you except from your posts and what appears to be your interest in gaining some knowledge before you got started I think you will be very happy with your first wine. But as John said the cost of an all grape batch is the same or cheaper then a quality kit. All grape is a little or maybe a lot more work but for me the fun in it is unmatched not to mention the quality you will get.


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## Johnd (Jul 20, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> I'd love to do that, but I'll need a lot of hand holding! If you think you can stand all of my questions and lack of skills, I'm in.



Done. No sense wasting years working your way up to grapes when you can dive on in.


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## pgentile (Jul 20, 2018)

Great way to start Scott. What everybody said before me, ditto. My first kits were Fontana kits. If you get a chance check out the thread "Tweaking cheap kits" lots of ideas. But being this is your first, stay the course. 

And as some have warned, be careful, carboys do multiply before you know it. Thought I had hit my the limit at 14, then I ran into @mainshipfred at the meetup and acquired 3 more. Now I have 17 full ones in my basement.


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 20, 2018)

pgentile said:


> Great way to start Scott. What everybody said before me, ditto. My first kits were Fontana kits. If you get a chance check out the thread "Tweaking cheap kits" lots of ideas. But being this is your first, stay the course.
> 
> And as some have warned, be careful, carboys do multiply before you know it. Thought I had hit my the limit at 14, then I ran into @mainshipfred at the meetup and acquired 3 more. Now I have 17 full ones in my basement.


pgentile, I am about half way through the "Tweaking Cheap Kits" thread! Lots of information there! I did drop my volume back to 5.5 gallons for this and I added the oak chips. I considered doing an fpac, but as this was my first kit, I wanted to make sure what I make will be drinkable, so I didn't experiment too much. My next kit is a WE Eclipse Lodi Cab, so I'll probably do that one by the book. But I can see the fun in doing some tweaking on my next cheap kit! Then again, if JohnD teaches me how to make wine with fresh grapes....I may not get back to the kits!


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 20, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Done. No sense wasting years working your way up to grapes when you can dive on in.


Very generous of you! Just keep me in the loop as to what you need from me!


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 20, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> With not knowing you except from your posts and what appears to be your interest in gaining some knowledge before you got started I think you will be very happy with your first wine. But as John said the cost of an all grape batch is the same or cheaper then a quality kit. All grape is a little or maybe a lot more work but for me the fun in it is unmatched not to mention the quality you will get.


mainshipfred, I'm excited to get the opportunity to try real grapes! JohnD has been very, very helpful and I'm looking forward to learning more from him! I didn't change much in the Fontana kit, so I'm hoping my first attempt comes out ok.


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## Johnd (Jul 20, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> Very generous of you! Just keep me in the loop as to what you need from me!



As soon as I get the Fall grape offerings from the supplier, we’ll chat about the grapes and you can decide what you want to do and we’ll order. Nothing to do after that til late September / early October, when the fun begins.


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 20, 2018)

Johnd said:


> As soon as I get the Fall grape offerings from the supplier, we’ll chat about the grapes and you can decide what you want to do and we’ll order. Nothing to do after that til late September / early October, when the fun begins.


Sounds like a lot of fun! Thank you again for including me!


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## WinoDave (Jul 21, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Scott's going to have the opportunity to start where I wish that I would have, aging good kit wines in barrels. My first barrel, now neutral, is wineless, sitting in the cellar, full of sulfite water waiting for his first entry.......Lodi Ranch Cab.


I have a 5 gallon bourbon barrel that that I’ve used for a Imperial Stout beer and currently a BarleyWine beer. When I siphon off the BarleyWine Beer could I sulfite the barrel and use it for wine??? I’m clueless on putting wine in a barrel.
Appreciate any input you or anybody else may have.


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## Johnd (Jul 21, 2018)

WinoDave said:


> I have a 5 gallon bourbon barrel that that I’ve used for a Imperial Stout beer and currently a BarleyWine beer. When I siphon off the BarleyWine Beer could I sulfite the barrel and use it for wine??? I’m clueless on putting wine in a barrel.
> Appreciate any input you or anybody else may have.



Don’t know jack about brewing beer, so I don’t know if it has anything in it detrimental to wine. If you’ve ever had a beer with Brett in it, that’s definitely a deal killer.


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 21, 2018)

Day 3 and a lot of bubbling going on in the Big Bubbler! Now I know what you all mean about watching the bubbles! I'm tempted to keep going back and uncovering the top and peeking in to watch the action and take a whiff of the must! It's smelling good so far!


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## jgmann67 (Jul 23, 2018)

Welcome to the obsession. 

Quick question for the good of the order: if your OG is 1.092 and you ferment your wine to dry, isn’t your potential ABV more like 13.4%?


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 23, 2018)

jgmann67 said:


> Welcome to the obsession.
> 
> Quick question for the good of the order: if your OG is 1.092 and you ferment your wine to dry, isn’t your potential ABV more like 13.4%?


You may be right. That was my first time to read the hydrometer and try to understand those readings, so I may be somewhat off.


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## mainshipfred (Jul 23, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> You may be right. That was my first time to read the hydrometer and try to understand those readings, so I may be somewhat off.



I have to admit my first few times reading it were questionable. Seemed so simple.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 23, 2018)

I assume Scott was just reading the “potential alcohol” off the hydrometer at that point. Ending point of “till dry” is kinda relative tho- finishing at .990 would have different abv than .996- but both essentially dry. 
The “potential abv” I think is based on finishing at 1.000. Not positive though.


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## mainshipfred (Jul 23, 2018)

The “potential abv” I think is based on finishing at 1.000. Not positive though.[/QUOTE]

I always wondered about that. Makes sense potential has to be based on some value. Thanks for the info.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 23, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> The “potential abv” I think is based on finishing at 1.000. Not positive though.


Never actually crunched the numbers to check- but “potential abv” definitely seems logical that it’s based off 1.000. 
Scott there’s a “calculator” many of us use that has all kinds of conversions and formulas pre-loaded for all different aspects of winemaking. Fermcalc. It’s a nice crutch when needed. http://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/FermCalcJS.html


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## jgmann67 (Jul 23, 2018)

I just did the math based on an OG of 1.092 and a finished SG of 0.990 and assumed a constant temp... I get 13.4%. So, yeah - a respectable ABV.

When I use the term “potential” I mean “highest you could see.”


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## Ajmassa (Jul 23, 2018)

jgmann67 said:


> I just did the math based on a OG of 1.092 and a finished SG of 0.990 and assumed a constant temp... I get 13.4%. So, yeah - a respectable ABV.
> 
> When I use the term “potential” I mean “highest you could see.”



Gotchya. I was just referencing the “potential abv” actually printed on the hydromter. Which is actually the minimum abv if fermented “dry” to 1.000 - but realistically Scott, most healthy ferments to dryness will finish somewhere between .990 to .997. (I’ve never gotten red wine below .993)


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 23, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Never actually crunched the numbers to check- but “potential abv” definitely seems logical that it’s based off 1.000.
> Scott there’s a “calculator” many of us use that has all kinds of conversions and formulas pre-loaded for all different aspects of winemaking. Fermcalc. It’s a nice crutch when needed. http://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/FermCalcJS.html


Thank you ajmassa! I appreciate any help I can get!


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## mainshipfred (Jul 24, 2018)

jgmann67 said:


> I just did the math based on an OG of 1.092 and a finished SG of 0.990 and assumed a constant temp... I get 13.4%. So, yeah - a respectable ABV.
> 
> When you say constant temp are you referring to a calibrated reading or does the fermentation temp have something to do with the ABV?


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## jgmann67 (Jul 24, 2018)

The App looks for starting temp and finishing temp. So, I plugged in the same # (e.g. started and finished at 72*). I think temp differences can cause a variation of +/- 0.2% ABV. But, that’s nothing to fret over.


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 24, 2018)

Took a SG reading this afternoon and its now at 1.030. The instructions say it needs to be at 1.020 or lower, so I'm getting close.I'll let it go for another two days and check again, or should I check it each day? On another note, the wine doesn't smell as good as it did early on (day1-3) Im guessing the yeast activity is what I'm smelling. I hope its just that anyway.


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## jgmann67 (Jul 24, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> Took a SG reading this afternoon and its now at 1.030. The instructions say it needs to be at 1.020 or lower, so I'm getting close.I'll let it go for another two days and check again, or should I check it each day? On another note, the wine doesn't smell as good as it did early on (day1-3) Im guessing the yeast activity is what I'm smelling. I hope its just that anyway.



Since you’re kit didn’t come with skins, your only concern right now is getting to an SG finish of 0.990-0.995. Don’t fret over a couple days more in the primary. Your wine is full of co2 (good if you’re worried about oxidation). 

Remember, when you transfer your wine from an open primary container to a carboy with an airlock, you’re restricting the amount of O2 and that tends to slow your ferment. 

Relax and take your time. Everything is fine. 

When you say that your wine “doesn’t smell as good”, what do you mean? Yeasty? That’s fine. Sharp and fuzzy? That’s fine too. Stinky rotten eggs?? That’s not okay.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 24, 2018)

I’m pretty sure I know what he means. The 1st half is one of the greatest smells known to man. The 2nd half the smell takes on a different vibe tho. Still similar to 1st half, but with an added bitter or acidic undertone sorta kinda. Not as enjoyable as the first stage, but not bad either. 
Your good. Just the normal smells from fermentation. 
Definitely wanna be checking SG at minimum every day to monitor progress. I just drop hydromter right in bucket. Never used a big mouth. Time of initial transfer is personal choice. I wait till about 1.000


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 24, 2018)

Thanks jgmann! The smell certainly isn't a rotten egg smell, just a yeasty, bready smell but not like that terrific first whiff with the oak, new yeast and grape juice. That was a great smell! I'm not too worried. I will do as you suggest Ajmassa and take a reading each day. I'm hopeful that I'll get a 1.00 reading or lower in the next few days, but I'm not going to rush it. My temp seems to be pretty consistent at 74.
The cap is pretty much gone now, just a thin layer of bubbles. I can actually see the oak chips again, so dropping the hydrometer in the Big Mouth might work going forward.


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## Venatorscribe (Jul 25, 2018)

tjgaul said:


> Ditto JohnD's thoughts. Great start! I'm still hypnotized by bubbles burping through an airlock. Could watch them for hours (possible exaggeration). Next best sound to a cork emerging from a bottleneck.
> 
> Good luck. Be Patient.


So true. Even more hypnotic than watching my little robotic vacuum cleaning whizzing around (with the lights off) ..


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 26, 2018)

Alright, my SG reading tonight was at 1.01! I'll check it again tomorrow and Saturday, with the plan to go ahead and rack on Saturday afternoon. The wine is very cloudy as I guess it would be. A quick sip gave me a strong alcohol taste. I'm not sure what its supposed to taste like at this early stage though.


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## Johnd (Jul 27, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> Alright, my SG reading tonight was at 1.01! I'll check it again tomorrow and Saturday, with the plan to go ahead and rack on Saturday afternoon. The wine is very cloudy as I guess it would be. A quick sip gave me a strong alcohol taste. I'm not sure what its supposed to taste like at this early stage though.



Sounds like you’re on track, wine at this stage isn’t particularly tasty, you’re really just looking for terrible tastes / odors that might tip you off to an issue.


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## Scott Harbison (Jul 29, 2018)

Day 11, SG at 1.000. I decided to go ahead and rack the Merlot to secondary.Now I'll let her sit for another 7-10 days before stabilizing and clearing. Feels good to be moving forward! .I think my head space is good and the sediment in the bottom seemed to stay and I don't think I picked up too much of it.


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## joeswine (Jul 30, 2018)

With home wine making time is always your partner..go slow and steady..and always Think outside the box


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## Boatboy24 (Jul 31, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> Day 11, SG at 1.000. I decided to go ahead and rack the Merlot to secondary.Now I'll let her sit for another 7-10 days before stabilizing and clearing. Feels good to be moving forward! .I think my head space is good and the sediment in the bottom seemed to stay and I don't think I picked up too much of it.




Don't rush secondary. As you said, your headspace is good, so nothing to worry about there. Give it ten days, then check SG. The same reading (below 1.000) for 3 days in a row and you can safely say you're done.


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 8, 2018)

So, I'm now at 21 days since starting my first kit. I racked to secondary on day 11 and the wine has been in secondary for 10 days. There is still a bit of C02 bubbling, but it's pretty slow. I'm planning on leaving it in the carboy for another 4 days, then will proceed to stabilizing and clearing. I'll need to degas. My plan is to siphon from the glass carboy back to the Big Mouth Bubbler for the stabilizing and clearing. The kit says to wait 48 hours after adding the potassium metabisulphite and potassium sorbate before degassing. My question is, can I cap the BMB for that 48 hours and then degas in there before racking back to a clean carboy? It seems like the degassing would be easier in the BMB. Directions siphon to bucket, clear and stabilize, then re-rack to carboy, wait 48 hours and degas. What do you guys think?


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## Johnd (Aug 8, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> So, I'm now at 21 days since starting my first kit. I racked to secondary on day 11 and the wine has been in secondary for 10 days. There is still a bit of C02 bubbling, but it's pretty slow. I'm planning on leaving it in the carboy for another 4 days, then will proceed to stabilizing and clearing. I'll need to degas. My plan is to siphon from the glass carboy back to the Big Mouth Bubbler for the stabilizing and clearing. The kit says to wait 48 hours after adding the potassium metabisulphite and potassium sorbate before degassing. My question is, can I cap the BMB for that 48 hours and then degas in there before racking back to a clean carboy? It seems like the degassing would be easier in the BMB. Directions siphon to bucket, clear and stabilize, then re-rack to carboy, wait 48 hours and degas. What do you guys think?


 
Rack and leave behind sediment, put it back in glass with sulfite, skip the sorbate unless you plan on adding sugar to make it sweet. Degas with my vacuum pump that you can borrow, add clearing agents, stir well, top up, airlock, forget about it til it’s clear.


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## ceeaton (Aug 8, 2018)

I just read through this thread, I think it is so cool that both of you live close enough for John to share his knowledge to help Scott out. I love the fact that @jgmann67 lives close enough I can visit with a 30 minute or so drive, though we have a tough time getting together since I'm always running kids too and fro, and he's always busy overseeing his pool from under an umbrella sipping on good wine.


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## Johnd (Aug 8, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> I just read through this thread, I think it is so cool that both of you live close enough for John to share his knowledge to help Scott out. I love the fact that @jgmann67 lives close enough I can visit with a 30 minute or so drive, though we have a tough time getting together since I'm always running kids too and fro, and he's always busy overseeing his pool from under an umbrella sipping on good wine.



It’s quite new to me, but it’s a good thing, we’re about 5 miles apart. Wished I’d have had someone nearby when I started, it’s a great hobby, gotta pay it forward. I suspect that the learning is going to go both ways.


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 9, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Rack and leave behind sediment, put it back in glass with sulfite, skip the sorbate unless you plan on adding sugar to make it sweet. Degas with my vacuum pump that you can borrow, add clearing agents, stir well, top up, airlock, forget about it til it’s clear.



Not going to add any sugar. I plan on racking this weekend. I will put it back in glass with sulphite. I'll certainly take the opportunity to borrow the vacuum pump! Thanks as always John!


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## jgmann67 (Aug 9, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> I just read through this thread, I think it is so cool that both of you live close enough for John to share his knowledge to help Scott out. I love the fact that @jgmann67 lives close enough I can visit with a 30 minute or so drive, though we have a tough time getting together since I'm always running kids too and fro, and he's always busy overseeing his pool from under an umbrella sipping on good wine.



What? Yeah... that's what I'm busy doing. [emoji12]


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## ceeaton (Aug 9, 2018)

jgmann67 said:


> What? Yeah... that's what I'm busy doing. [emoji12]


I figured that would get your attention...


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 9, 2018)

Johnd said:


> It’s quite new to me, but it’s a good thing, we’re about 5 miles apart. Wished I’d have had someone nearby when I started, it’s a great hobby, gotta pay it forward. I suspect that the learning is going to go both ways.



Got the same thing w/ @mainshipfred . Very nice having a fellow winemaker so close by. And yes, the learning is definitely going both ways.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 9, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the same thing w/ @mainshipfred . Very nice having a fellow winemaker so close by. And yes, the learning is definitely going both ways.



I think we win the proximity contest. I bet we are no further then 2 miles. Too bad our schedules don't let us get together more often.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 9, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> I think we win the proximity contest. I bet we are no further then 2 miles. Too bad our schedules don't let us get together more often.



Pretty sure I could easily jog to your house. But who would carry the wine?


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 11, 2018)

Alright, the Merlot has settled in at .996 for 3 straight days, so I racked out of the 5 gallon carboy into a 6 gallon carboy. There was a good layer of light purple mud on the bottom, but nothing funky. I added the potassium sorbate and the metabisulphite to the racked wine. I know I didn't have to add the sorbate, but the kit called for it, so I went ahead and added that. I let the wine sit for a few hours, then used the pump I borrowed from JohnD to degas! WOW! Talk about a quick degassing. It took 5 minutes and I was done. Actually, I was probably done after about 3 minutes, but I wanted to make sure I degassed as much as I could. 
I then re-racked back to a clean and sanitized 5 gallon carboy. Did a little tasting and not bad. Not great, but not bad.

I'll let the wine sit for 6-8 hours then I will add the Kieselsol. After that, I'll wait a few more hours and add the final clarifier. Then, I'm going to put this kit in the corner for about three months and let it do its thing. I'll do a tasting every 4 weeks or so to see where I am from a taste standpoint and try to determine when to bottle.

My first kit almost done! So far so good, Keeping my fingers crossed that I haven'r screwed anything up and it will be a drinkable Merlot at some point in the next 6-8 months.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 11, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> Alright, the Merlot has settled in at .996 for 3 straight days, so I racked out of the 5 gallon carboy into a 6 gallon carboy. There was a good layer of light purple mud on the bottom, but nothing funky. I added the potassium sorbate and the metabisulphite to the racked wine. I know I didn't have to add the sorbate, but the kit called for it, so I went ahead and added that. I let the wine sit for a few hours, then used the pump I borrowed from JohnD to degas! WOW! Talk about a quick degassing. It took 5 minutes and I was done. Actually, I was probably done after about 3 minutes, but I wanted to make sure I degassed as much as I could.
> I then re-racked back to a clean and sanitized 5 gallon carboy. Did a little tasting and not bad. Not great, but not bad.
> 
> I'll let the wine sit for 6-8 hours then I will add the Kieselsol. After that, I'll wait a few more hours and add the final clarifier. Then, I'm going to put this kit in the corner for about three months and let it do its thing. I'll do a tasting every 4 weeks or so to see where I am from a taste standpoint and try to determine when to bottle.
> ...



Sounding good! It appears you may have an empty fermenting vessel, what's the deal with that.


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## Johnd (Aug 11, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Sounding good! It appears you may have an empty fermenting vessel, what's the deal with that.



Baby steps, baby steps........


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## Johnd (Aug 11, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> Alright, the Merlot has settled in at .996 for 3 straight days, so I racked out of the 5 gallon carboy into a 6 gallon carboy. There was a good layer of light purple mud on the bottom, but nothing funky. I added the potassium sorbate and the metabisulphite to the racked wine. I know I didn't have to add the sorbate, but the kit called for it, so I went ahead and added that. I let the wine sit for a few hours, then used the pump I borrowed from JohnD to degas! WOW! Talk about a quick degassing. It took 5 minutes and I was done. Actually, I was probably done after about 3 minutes, but I wanted to make sure I degassed as much as I could.
> I then re-racked back to a clean and sanitized 5 gallon carboy. Did a little tasting and not bad. Not great, but not bad.
> 
> I'll let the wine sit for 6-8 hours then I will add the Kieselsol. After that, I'll wait a few more hours and add the final clarifier. Then, I'm going to put this kit in the corner for about three months and let it do its thing. I'll do a tasting every 4 weeks or so to see where I am from a taste standpoint and try to determine when to bottle.
> ...



Surely you don’t mean that you degassed a wine in 3 minutes...... did you use some 4,000,000 rpm super degassing machine???

Seriously though, shoulda skipped the sorbate.....


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 11, 2018)

John, that pump worked like a charm! I had enough room in the 6 gallon carboy that there was no concern at all for any back flow. Plus, the machine was far enough away from the carboy there was no concern regarding any oil getting to the wine. No doubt I will probably invest in something like that!

I know you said skip the sorbate......but I was nervous, so I mixed it in.


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 11, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Sounding good! It appears you may have an empty fermenting vessel, what's the deal with that.


 I do have my WE Lodi Cabernet going as well! So I'm moving along pretty good. Going to do some work on that one today too!


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 13, 2018)

I added all of my kielesol and clarifiers this weekend and did another small tasting. Everything seems ok, but just ok. They body is a bit thin and I'd like to have a little more tannic bite to the wine. I did add oak chips in primary, but not in secondary. At this point is it too late to add a bit of tannin to my wine?

My research online seems to indicate I can add Tannin Riche or Tannin Riche Extra as long as its done at least 3-6 weeks prior to bottling. I'm planning on letting the wine age in the carboy for at least 3 months, maybe longer before bottling. Anyone had experience adding tannin post fermentation?


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## mainshipfred (Aug 13, 2018)

You may want to consider spirals instead of chips and it's not too late. You can aslo add finishing or aging tannins if the oaking is not enough. I don't remember what kit you used so I can't comment on thin. Others may have thoughts.


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 13, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> You may want to consider spirals instead of chips and it's not too late. You can aslo add finishing or aging tannins if the oaking is not enough. I don't remember what kit you used so I can't comment on thin. Others may have thoughts.


 Thanks @mainshipfred It's a Fontana Premium Merlot.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 13, 2018)

Scott, when I google your kit I'm finding it is a 5.5 liter kit. If this is correct it will always be thin don't tink there is much you can do about it. It will make it a quick drinker though and for your first batch that's probably want you want. If you want a thicker full bodied wine take John up on his offer to walk you through the all grape wine process.


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 13, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Scott, when I google your kit I'm finding it is a 5.5 liter kit. If this is correct it will always be thin don't tink there is much you can do about it. It will make it a quick drinker though and for your first batch that's probably want you want. If you want a thicker full bodied wine take John up on his offer to walk you through the all grape wine process.


You're probably right. I did drop my initial water amount hoping that would help some. I do have my second batch already in primary! I have a WE Eclipse Lodi Cabernet going, so I'm hoping that one will be nice. It'll be a while before I get that one done though. JohnD has even offered me a barrel to age that one in!

Reading more online, I may go with a cellaring tannin rather than the Tannin Riche which is a finishing tannin. I need something to bring it around.

I've already told JohnD, I'm willing to take a shot with grapes! He's aware of my lack of knowledge and says he's still willing to help, so I'm in!! he's helped me out a ton just on this first little kit. I'm lucky to have him so close.


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## Johnd (Aug 13, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> You're probably right. I did drop my initial water amount hoping that would help some. I do have my second batch already in primary! I have a WE Eclipse Lodi Cabernet going, so I'm hoping that one will be nice. It'll be a while before I get that one done though. JohnD has even offered me a barrel to age that one in!
> 
> Reading more online, I may go with a cellaring tannin rather than the Tannin Riche which is a finishing tannin. I need something to bring it around.
> 
> I've already told JohnD, I'm willing to take a shot with grapes! He's aware of my lack of knowledge and says he's still willing to help, so I'm in!! he's helped me out a ton just on this first little kit. I'm lucky to have him so close.



You’re in Scott, it’ll cost you a little manual labor, but it’s a labor of love. Once you taste the wine, you’ll understand why it’s worth the effort......


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## Ajmassa (Aug 13, 2018)

Careful with the finishing tannin. A heavy hand is a really easy way to ruin your wine. Plus this wine is less than a month old- an infant. I suggest to not do anything aside from oak adjuncts, for at least 3-6 months. —another benefit of bulk aging. 
Paul Mcartney knew the deal. In times of trouble- just Let it Be.


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## Scott Harbison (Aug 13, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Careful with the finishing tannin. A heavy hand is a really easy way to ruin your wine. Plus this wine is less than a month old- an infant. I suggest to not do anything aside from oak adjuncts, for at least 3-6 months. —another benefit of bulk aging.
> Paul Mcartney knew the deal. In times of trouble- just Let it Be.



I like McCartney. And as the Stones also noted..."Time is on my side".


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## ceeaton (Aug 13, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> I like McCartney. And as the Stones also noted..."Time is on my side".


Yeah, both of those songs were made after they drank a wine that needed some more age. 

I agree with AJ, low end on the tannins if you add them. I did the low end of some tannin extra riche on an eight gallon batch of a bordeaux type blend I made. Even at three+ years old one of the comments back from the NE Great red wine tasting was that I had added too much oak. It gives a definite hint of vanilla. I'd prefer a spiral like Fred suggested or maybe even a few Xoakers. A new wine always seems to lack body, give it some time.

I find that I enjoy my home made wines much better with added age, much more than I though I would.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 13, 2018)

Wait till you start doing MLF, you will be singing "Tiny Bubbles"


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 13, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> Yeah, both of those songs were made after they drank a wine that needed some more age.



A little known fact.


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## ceeaton (Aug 13, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> A little known fact.


I like knowing little known things, makes up for knowing little.

That would make a great saying on a bumper sticker!


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## Scott Harbison (Sep 5, 2018)

I did a little tasting of my very first kit, the Fontana Merlot this Labor Day and I was pleasantly surprised with the flavor and color. Still not much bouquet and while the flavor was ok, it was still thin. I did add the single oak spiral in hoped that will give the wine the little extra boost it needs. I stayed away from adding any additional tannins.
I'll taste again in three weeks and then decide if I should pull the spiral at that point or wait the full six weeks. I'm hopeful it's going to end up decent.


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## jgmann67 (Sep 6, 2018)

Scott Harbison said:


> I did a little tasting of my very first kit, the Fontana Merlot this Labor Day and I was pleasantly surprised with the flavor and color. Still not much bouquet and while the flavor was ok, it was still thin. I did add the single oak spiral in hoped that will give the wine the little extra boost it needs. I stayed away from adding any additional tannins.
> I'll taste again in three weeks and then decide if I should pull the spiral at that point or wait the full six weeks. I'm hopeful it's going to end up decent.
> 
> 
> View attachment 50841



You won't get much of a nose from kit wines (as a general rule). If you do go down the tannin road, Tannin Riche Extra might be just the thing...


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## Loghousewines (Sep 6, 2018)

Give them time..... All of my bulk aging wine really turned the corner at 18 months. I like oak, and have found that once you rack off the oak you lose 50% of the oakiness so aim high. I have 8 carboys aging, all big reds and an empty fermentation bucket but no more carboys. Have to bottle or get more carboys.


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