# Old Cran-Grape



## G259 (Nov 6, 2019)

I have 3 gallons of cran grape that I over sweetened, and had planned to blend with a dry wine to balance. It was at a 1.010 sg and I thought that a completely dry wine would blend nicely. Life, as it is, did not allow me that opportunity. A year later, I am left with 3 gallons of slightly raisin tainted wine. It's not bad, but you can quickly tell that there is a problem.
I was wondering if anyone had a recipe that may be good using this wine, maybe a reduction would be a good way of using this. Any ideas would be welcomed, and I promise to let you know the results.


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## Rice_Guy (Nov 7, 2019)

* I am assuming that cran grape wine means that you fermented Old Orchard, a formulated grocery store cranberry-grape juice which consists of filtered water, sugar (ex white grape or apple juice concentrate) cranberry concentrate, Ascorbic acid.
* I would look for some straight unsweetened juice concentrate as cranberry or tart cherry and add more fruit solids to up the acid flavor and balance the sweet flavors.
* option two would be add acid blend and maybe 1/10th of the suggested usage of a flavor extract from your wine toys store. The normal way is to do bench trials to find a pleasing acid level.
Have you run TA? At a sugar of 1.010 you will probably balance at a TA of 1.0%. A juice like Langers cranberry cocktail with pear and apple comes in at 0.81% TA therefore adding 0.2% acid blend is where I would guess you wind up.
However Welches and Minute Maid etc do different ratios which gives different starting acids! If you don’t know your starting point you can’t do it as a math problem. , , , Straight cranberry juiced in the lab TA about 3.16, , ,Welches cranberry with pear and apple TA 0.96%.


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## G259 (Nov 7, 2019)

Oh yes, I could blend it to reduce sweetness (my original plan), but now with the raisin taint, I hesitate to throw good wine after bad. I was kind of looking for a way to use it as-is if possible, unless A blending might work. This has been treated with sorbate. Are you saying that more acid will balance the sugar?


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## Rice_Guy (Nov 8, 2019)

G259 said:


> . Are you saying that more acid will balance the sugar?


* YES, BUT, , , there is a lot of variation in what folks like, ex the kids like sweeter flavor and I (grandpa) tend to favor more tart and bitter and tannic and umani. Most wines with repeat sales will fall on a line.
* YES, , , in the vinters club I hear the comment "the neighbors can't believe that this wine with a gravity of 1.011 and TA of .9% isn't dry
* BUT, , , flavors are complicated, , haven't seen any articles but my guess is that bitter and tannin "hide" some of the acid notes, , , another option with over sweet is to try a bench trial series of tannin or liquid "wine improver". I haven't played there but making a port is another flavor direction.
* flavors wash over your mouth in waves, sweet is fast, bitter tends to be slow and last (ie hide other/ early notes), acids are middle in speed 


Good luck! I am certain the 20 something kids down the block already like your raisin flavor wine.


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## G259 (Nov 8, 2019)

I gave a 500ml bottle to a friend at work (one of my tasters), and he said today that it was sweet, but not bad. Maybe I'm looking too hard for problems. I will try the acid though this weekend, and report back the results. I don't have a TA tester, but will ph strips give me an analogous result that will infer the TA? BTW, it was 1/2 off-brand cranberry, 1/2 grape, not pre-mixed, if that even means much!

(edit) Never mind, search results indicate that you can't equate TA and PH.
(but knowledge gained!)


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## Rice_Guy (Nov 9, 2019)

G259 said:


> I don't have a TA tester, but will ph strips give me an analogous result that will infer the TA?


* YES, , , You are starting with grocery store foods which fall into the consumer norm for acceptable taste therefore it should work. If you had concentrates, or fresh fruit you couldn’t simplify. We intuitively know the high TA foods because we want to sweeten when we make a pie (ex rhurbarb) or dilute them down when we make skeeter pee (lemon juice) or salad dressing (vinegar).
* However, pH paper isn’t as accurate as a really cheap meter. The color in red and blue fruits disguises the indicator chemical in the paper. 
* Remember, folks have been making wine for thousands of years. (even cedar wax wings (birds) get drunk in fall by eating fermented fruit in trees). All the electronics do is let me put a number on something so a PLC can run the line when the expert retires or takes a vacation.


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## G259 (Nov 25, 2019)

I bench tested the acid blend addition, I had to add about 3/4 tablespoon per liter bottle! You can still taste the sugar, but the tartness of the blend balances it out though. It is drinkable now, thanks!
I knew better, but still had to put the hydrometer in! Yes, it was still 1.010!


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## Rice_Guy (Nov 26, 2019)

Yup hedonic taste always wins, the numbers only help understand the art. Glad you found an answer


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