# Barrel Hoops - Finishing?



## the_rayway

Hi All,
My beautiful, 20L vadai is currently on it's initial 3-5 day soak, which is going amazingly well!

After some searching, I can't seem to find an answer for this: 
The barrel has galvanized hoops that already have started rusting in some places. Does anyone finish their hoops in any way? Tremclad, etc? I'm just concerned that the rust will continue and eventually leach into the barrel, affecting the wine.


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## Pumpkinman

WOW, Mine haven't started to rust, maybe a call to Vadai would be a good thing, they are great people, easy to work with.


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## LoveTheWine

They shouldn't be rusting. At least mine never has. That's the point of them being galvanized...
I'm probably way off here but throwing an idea at you.
Are you submerging the outside of the barrel in strong sulfite solution? If so, maybe it oxidized the coating to the point there was no protective layer.


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## the_rayway

Hey Guys,
Thanks for responding: Aaron - no, the outside of the barrel was only submerged in regular water.

Tom: It's a Vadai barrel, but I got it from MoreWine, so I'll give them a call to see what's up.

Here's a second question, since now I have some concerns: is the inside of the barrel supposed to be all rough and splintery? Because mine is.

I'm going to be so pissed if I have to return this thing.


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## Runningwolf

OH come on Ray don't be pissed. I see those at Pier One all the time for decorations. They sell for about $25.


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## the_rayway

Runningwolf said:


> OH come on Ray don't be pissed. I see those at Pier One all the time for decorations. They sell for about $25.



Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! 
Maybe that's where I should have gone - would have been cheaper! Lol


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## Pumpkinman

Raelene,
I would call Vadai anyway to see if they have a fix, if they say that it needs to be returned, then I'd call morewine as well. The ironic part is that i have sprayed my barrel with a meta solution from a pump sprayer a bunch of times and it hasn't rusted at all.
Even though you will be pissed, I'd rather be disappointed and have a flawless barrel then have doubts about a rusted barrel (then again, it were me, i'd be cussin and screaming and throwing things at this point...LOL)


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## Runningwolf

Really how rusty is it. Pictures please. If it was a little surface rust, I would probably clean it off with a scotch brite pad and move on. Maybe put a light coat of food grade oil on it, but i wouldn't bother. If it's a heavy rust then that's different.


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## Rocky

Rae, in order for them to rust there has to be a break in the zinc coating. They are probably "dipped" rather than having the Zn electro-deposited. If you do remove the rust as Dan suggests, I would touch up those spots with Rustoleum.


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## ibglowin

I agree pics please. I am thinking it may just be some discoloration which is very normal once you hit it with water and or KMETA.


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## vernsgal

the_rayway said:


> I'm going to be so pissed if I have to return this thing.



I'm hoping all goes well for you Raelene, I know how long you've been waiting!
(I'd do a pic for fingers crossed, but there is none)


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## Runningwolf

vernsgal said:


> (I'd do a pic for fingers crossed, but there is none)


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## the_rayway

Hey All,
Thanks for the replies!

Between the rust which was there before I got the barrel wet, that my husband says it was improperly galvanized (he works in the steel industry), and the splintered/wrecked interior, I decided to call the MoreWine Company today.

The person I spoke to said that it was definitely not normal, and they are already putting together a replacement to send to me. They are standing by their product 100%, and I have to say, I was very impressed by their level of customer service!

I'm looking forward to seeing my new barrel, and chalking this all up to a learning experience. 

I will definitely be ordering from MoreWine again.


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## Pumpkinman

Very cool!


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## Runningwolf

Great news Ray, thanks for sharing.


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## vernsgal

Runningwolf said:


>



smart *ss!


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## the_rayway

Anyone know how I could possibly turn the yucky barrel into a cold smoker? 

If it's going to be hanging around my house, it should at least be useful...

I guess I could also use it as firewood, a tiny rain barrel, a chair for the fire pit, etc.


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## Runningwolf

HUH? They are sending you a new one and letting you keep the old one? 

Can you make a cushion for the top of it and make a stool out of it?


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## ibglowin

Pretty sure they are going to want it back to check it over inside and out for the problems you mentioned, otherwise they would have a serious problem with people abusing that policy I would think.


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## the_rayway

Hey Guys, 
Apparently, because I'm international and the shipping costs would be too great, they told me to keep and do what I will with it. I'm assuming it's not normal protocol for places that can ship easily back and forth though.

I probably could make it into a little stool, or big chair for my kids


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## vacuumpumpman

I have a cold smoker - similiar to this one 
http://www.smokedaddyinc.com/smokers.htm
I really like it, because it is portable and I can put it on my larger smoke box or my grill. We smoked an entire turkey for 1 hour and then we cooked it in the oven - it was great !!!

If you would like more details - please Pm me


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## Boatboy24

the_rayway said:


> Hey Guys,
> Apparently, because I'm international and the shipping costs would be too great, they told me to keep and do what I will with it. I'm assuming it's not normal protocol for places that can ship easily back and forth though.
> 
> I probably could make it into a little stool, or big chair for my kids



I received a barrel from MoreWine last year with some spots on the hoops that looked like rust. I was told scrubbing the spots with StarSan would take care of them. You may want to give that a try before turning it into something else. In my case, the barrel was also the wrong size, but they wanted it back.


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## Pumpkinman

Raelene,
Looks like you have 2 oak barrels to use now! Happy New year!


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## the_rayway

Bhahaha! One to sit on while I fill the other with wine!

Boatboy - the inside of the barrel became the bigger issue. The rust just appeared to be the tip of the iceberg, as it were.


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## JohnT

Pumpkinman said:


> Raelene,
> Looks like you have 2 oak barrels to use now! Happy New year!


 

Ray, 

He's right. Consider the fact that the only issue you have is that the hoops are rusting a little bit. I doubt that there is any way for the rust to get into the wine from outside the barrel. I would have suggested that you can use this barrel despite the rust. Just keep the outside of the barrel dry. 

If I were you, I would continue using the rusty barrel for ageing wine and rejoice in the fact that you now have two of them.


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## Boatboy24

the_rayway said:


> Boatboy - the inside of the barrel became the bigger issue. The rust just appeared to be the tip of the iceberg, as it were.



Were there other issues?


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## the_rayway

Sorry, the other issues: improper galvanizing (which I'm sure contributed to the rust); and the inside of the barrel - it looks like someone took a tool of some kind and butchered the inside. Or maybe that a small animal got trapped in there and tried to claw it's way out. It's splintered, scratched, and generally destroyed looking.

If it had just been the rust, no problem. I could have refinished/removed the rust and carried on. 

Has no one else ever received a barrel like this? Did I just get bad luck?


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## tonyt

the_rayway said:


> improper galvanizing . . . it looks like someone took a tool of some kind and butchered the inside. Or maybe that a small animal got trapped in there




No way I'd use it for wine as is. I would consider taking it apart, splitting the staves (after proper cleaning) to use in carboys or when the new one goes neutral. Although the fact that you already soaked the inside may have eliminated that possibility for now. Good luck.

BTW, I don't think anyone has ever posted a negative comment about MoreWine's customer service. That's very admirable.


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## JohnT

Rayway, 

The inside is usually smooth due to the toasting (burn) that a proper barrel goes through. 

I would ask two questions.. 

1) is it water (wine) tight? 
2) how does the inside smell (I always like to remove the bung and sniff the inside of a new empty barrel. I do the same thing with a newly opened can of coffee. 

If it is water tight and smells good, then I do not see any kind of problem using it. Why would a rough interior make such a negative difference?


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## Pumpkinman

I have to agree with John. The bung hole can look a little splintered due to having to drill the hole out, as with any drill, if the power fades for a second or two, it won't cut it clean, of course this is only my opinion, I have no clue how the barrel looks, but a scratch and a little splintering won't harm the wine, if anything, if more wood is exposed it would impart more oak (again, this is just my opinion), but I do understand your concerns.


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## Runningwolf

the_rayway said:


> Has no one else ever received a barrel like this? Did I just get bad luck?



BAD LUCK????? Use that barrel!!! I wish I had your luck!


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## ibglowin

the_rayway said:


> Has no one else ever received a barrel like this? Did I just get bad luck?



I have 4 Vadai's. 2 ordered via Vadai and 2 ordered through Morewine. Never heard of a problem like yours.

You do realize the inside has been burn't (charred) and does not look like the outside at all right?


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## the_rayway

TonyT: that is one of the big reasons I ordered from them, I'd heard rave reviews about them and their customer service. When ordering from pretty far away, and internationally, good customer service is soo important. And they certainly did not disappoint. As I said earlier, they have been exceptional. The other stuff I ordered is AWESOME.

Regarding the barrel interior: yes, I do know that the inside has been charred . But it should not look like someone took an axe to it afterwards. It is water tight, but my concern is that there are going to be bacteria that are already in those gouges from whatever did that to it, and it will ruin my wine. (maybe when I drain the water/kmeta out, I can get a picture for you guys, seriously, it's not like a little scratch here or there, that would be ok!). This barrel is definitely not in prime condition, and I wouldn't use it for my wine.

As I've said: MoreWine has been exceptional thus far. I certainly didn't start this thread to bash them! Yikes! It was to troubleshoot my new barrel wonderings. *sigh* Darn it! Every time I type in this thread, I feel like a jerk - I'm not! I just want a good quality, medium toast oak barrel for Pete's sake! Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease!!


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## Pumpkinman

I don't think that anyone thinks that you are bashing Morewine or that you are being a jerk, you have done nothing but be real cool about this!


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## the_rayway

Lol, thanks for the reassurance Tom.

I'm also one of those people that hates to send food back at a restaurant. Just makes me feel so guilty! Like the chef will come out and


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## Pumpkinman

No probs Raelene, we think that you're "as cool as the flip side of a pillow"....lol.... (I was once told that by one of my employees that I was going to reprimand....after that I couldn't yell.....he earn arse kissing points...LOL


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## LoneStarLori

the_rayway said:


> Lol, thanks for the reassurance Tom.
> 
> I'm also one of those people that hates to send food back at a restaurant. Just makes me feel so guilty! Like the chef will come out and



Or he could spit in your food and you'd never know it. 

I only saw glowing comments about their customer service. Relax Rae!


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## Boatboy24

I don't think anyone thinks you are bashing, so don't worry. You have a chance at possibly having two barrels for the price of one, and I think we just don't want to see that go to waste unless you are absolutely certain that first barrel is unusable.


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## ibglowin

Definitely do not think you are being anything Raylene. We are all just confused as between us posting on this forum we collectively have ~100 Vadai's and although we have seen some pretty good leakers we have never seen/heard of one like this. 

As you are a new(er) member we just want to cover the bases so to speak and make sure there really is a problem. And it sounds like there is!


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## the_rayway

Thanks folks, what a weird situation. I assumed it was not normal as soon as others started posting! Just my luck I guess. The first food processor I ever had (wedding present) caught fire the first time I used it. No one had ever heard of that. Also, my prime, expensive shovel that I purchased a few years back - I snapped in half the first time I used it. Again, the store had never heard of such a thing happening before. Used them both properly, nothing weird, they just *pfft*!

Maybe I just have weird luck with new stuff? All the second hand things I own work perfectly!

Well, I'm just going to keep it soaking with water/kmeta until the new barrel arrives. Hopefully the new one gets here soon! My planning has screeched to a halt with all of this


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## ibglowin

OK, no, now its definitely you! 



the_rayway said:


> Thanks folks, what a weird situation. I assumed it was not normal as soon as others started posting! Just my luck I guess. The first food processor I ever had (wedding present) caught fire the first time I used it. No one had ever heard of that. Also, my prime, expensive shovel that I purchased a few years back - I snapped in half the first time I used it. Again, the store had never heard of such a thing happening before. Used them both properly, nothing weird, they just *pfft*!
> 
> Maybe I just have weird luck with new stuff? All the second hand things I own work perfectly!
> 
> Well, I'm just going to keep it soaking with water/kmeta until the new barrel arrives. Hopefully the new one gets here soon! My planning has screeched to a halt with all of this


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## Pumpkinman

Raelene....LOL...ya know what the common denominator is don't ya?...LOL
Just kidding! It's funny, sometime the most honest people get the crappiest luck with new items, the kicker is that most nice people feel bad about complaining...here on the east coast...I'll even narrow it down to NY and NJ, we have a way of making our point known, heck some stores have adopted a no questions asked return policy, can you imagine...no questions asked!


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## the_rayway

Lol Mike & Tom!! Thanks for that.


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## StoneCreek

As someone who tries to salvage anything worth salvaging I would suggest salvaging that barrel so you will have two for the price of one. Removing the barrel head is not at all difficult and then you will have access to the interior where you can scrape the insides back smooth or at least remove the splintering with some coarse sandpaper. After the rough spots have taken care of a quick charring with an inexpensive plumbing torch (which can be picked up at any big box home improvement retailer or plumbing supply house) can get the interior back to where you want it. Of coarse, if you have a small flame thrower attachment for a portable propane tank I would use that since its the same thing the cooperage used in the first place. A quick google search produced an easy to follow PDF on removing and replacing the barrel head and hoops. I think an afternoon of easy labor is well worth the effort to have two usable barrels.

http://seguinmoreaunapa.com/pdfs/Removing_and_Replacing_Barrel_Heads.pdf

Forgot to mention, once you have the hoops off you can then clean them up and spay paint them the color of your choice before putting them back on. - Dave


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## JohnT

Rayway, 

If you use the usual, standard procedure for prepping your barrel, bacteria should not be much of a concern. I cringe thinking that you plan to pull that barrel apart and not use it....


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## ibglowin

That is so true John. Wine don't care what the barrel looks like on the inside! As long as it doesn't leak like a sieve I would use it. Of course this just means you are going to have to double your production to keep both of them filled! Double batch of La Bodega Port should do it!


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## WI_Wino

the_rayway said:


> Regarding the barrel interior: yes, I do know that the inside has been charred . But it should not look like someone took an axe to it afterwards. It is water tight, but my concern is that there are going to be bacteria that are already in those gouges from whatever did that to it, and it will ruin my wine. (maybe when I drain the water/kmeta out, I can get a picture for you guys, seriously, it's not like a little scratch here or there, that would be ok!). This barrel is definitely not in prime condition, and I wouldn't use it for my wine.



Is there anyway to get a picture of the barrel to see what it looks like?


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## Scott

Chaulk it up to experience and move onto the next batch! Think about all of the past good wines and the future ones.

Nothing like the smell of fermenting wine in the morning  well maybe bacon!!


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## Boatboy24

Sorry to hear that. I thought everything was being worked out.


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## LoneStarLori

Sorry to hear it worked out so badly for you. I know you were really excited to be getting a barrel. Don't let a bad experience ruin your love for wine making. Pick yourself up by your bootstraps and throw some must in a bucket.


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