# Green Mist Vineyard - The OFFICIAL Startup Thread



## TimTheWiner (Aug 4, 2012)

Well it is official. I have decided to make the LEAP from kits to vines. Not kits to grapes, but kits to _*vines*_. I have only been in the hobby for less than a year with only 4 kit wines under my belt. I yearn for more am passionate about reaching the next level. Now one would assume go to fresh local grapes, which I absolutely plan to do this fall, however I know that in the long run I will only be truly satisfied if I am making everything from scratch and I do mean vine to bottle. There is still much to learn, but with it being a 3+ year period before I have a fruitful yield, I figure I might as well get started now on planting and that will give me plenty of time to hone my skills perfecting the actual winemaking.

The land I am using will be about a 1/4 acre field, with which I plan on utilizing about a 80'x80' plantable area. We are in USDA winter hardiness Zone 6a, and will be purchasing vines from Double A Vineyards by October. I plan on planting Cabernet Franc and Riesling (and possibly one or two other undetermined varietals). The lot appears to get good sun exposure (at least 5-6 hours of direct light per day May-Sept), and gently slopes towards the woods which will aid in an eventual gravity fed drip irrigation system (via rainwater collection). 

Although I thought of the name (this will be a non-commercial operation), my father takes credit for coining the term. He always described the "green mist" in the woods during those few very early weeks of spring when the buds are just barely starting to break on the trees and shrubbery in the forest behind the house, and all you see is a see of a fine green mist in and otherwise brown and lifeless forest. I will look forward to this journey and hope you will enjoy my updates and pictures of the progression. I will be keeping questions that I have to the search feature, or separate threads. Enjoy!


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 4, 2012)

Here is the field for the vineyard. It is actually larger than the pictures make it look. All these pics are from my iphone camera, but will be using my Canon in the future.






View from the woods, may need to clear a few trees before planting. Quite shaded at 5 pm.





View from road/entrance.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 4, 2012)

First ground breaking. Hit a rock just below the surface and in MANY locations. I have a feeling I will be spending the next two months just prepping the soil and removing any large rocks down to about 24".





Soil sample is ready to head to Uconn (taken from 5 sites at 8"-12").


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## ibglowin (Aug 4, 2012)

That looks like dirt dude......

You are ahead of me already if you got dirt!

Looks like a putting green.

Looking forward to your progress!


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 4, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Looks like a putting green.


 
Lol, yeh certainly nothing too see yet but gotta start somewhere. I will start laying out perimeter and row lines with string tomorrow and begin tilling next weekend.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 5, 2012)

Here is an aerial of the field. You can see there is quite a bit of afternoon shade (I believe this photo would've been taken sometime around 4 pm during the summer). And a tad concerned since there is visible moss cover along with the grass on that corner/side of the field, so I _really_ need to see how much direct light will be on the vines and if I need to cut down any trees.


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## heatrash4 (Aug 5, 2012)

ShockwaveCT said:


> Here is an aerial of the field. You can see there is quite a bit of afternoon shade (I believe this photo would've been taken sometime around 4 pm during the summer). And a tad concerned since there is visible moss cover along with the grass on that corner/side of the field, so I really need to see how much direct light will be on the vines and if I need to cut down any trees.



I would love to do what you are doing! Keep it up, I am very interested to see your progress .


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 5, 2012)

Spent almost 3 hours today sweating it out getting the exact crop area/perimeter mapped staked out. The pain was more mental than physical since I was using math, degrees, and angles that I haven't thought of in 10+ years. I wanted to get the 4 corners set and perfectly square. It is hard enough to get a perfect square that looks like it has equal borders on all edges (ie: looking parallel to property lines for aesthetics), but to boot, I decided to take it a step further. I read an excerpt of an article that shows that if rows are set North/South but 15 degrees West of North it aids in more even fruit ripening. Well I got LUCKY. It just so happens that the road/property line run almost EXACTLY 15 degrees West of north, so I basically stood in the yellow line in the middle of the road and measured into the field from there to achieve this parallel line, and amazing 15 degree angle (actually considered 345 degrees). I have a pic below from Google Maps, and here is the test excerpt from the article (site requires a membership which is why I didn't use a hyperlink):

*Row Direction in Cooler Climates*
With the restriction of midday sun exposure lifted, row orientation may be chosen to maximize viticultural characteristics. Fruit temperature is a key (perhaps _the_ key) factor in the ripening process. For highest wine quality, our goal is to have fruit achieve ripeness (flavor, not just sugar) at the same time. Therefore, we want to promote uniformity of fruit ripening processes for both sides of the canopy. That means that fruit on each side should experience similar temperature cycles each day. At first blush, one would think that the best way to achieve this is with a north-south row orientation. After all, they both will receive the same amount of sunshine. Indeed, a north-south row orientation will come close to this ideal. But, take a look at the fruit temperature measurements made for the north-south row in Chart B. The east side fruit, exposed to the sun's rays in the morning, heats up and reaches peak temperature well before noon. The west side fruit, shaded until after solar noon, peaks in temperature in the mid-afternoon. But notice that the temperature curves are not symmetrical. If we did a heat summation on the two curves, the east-facing side would have been seen to have received more "degree-hours." In other words, the north-south row orientation does not achieve the ideal goal of equitable heat exposure of the two sides of the canopy.
The reason for this discrepancy is that grape berries are mostly water and water has a high heat capacity. In other words, it takes a lot of energy to raise berry temperature to a given level, and by the same token, berry temperature tends to resist changes, including cooling. This can be thought of as akin to "thermal momentum." Because of this thermal momentum, the east-side fruit that warms up under the direct morning sunshine remains relatively warm during the afternoon, even though it is no longer in the sun. This is because the ambient temperature continues to increase, and fruit temperature will not fall until the ambient temperature falls below fruit temperature.
On the other hand, the west-facing fruit does not experience sunshine until after noon, at which time its temperature rises above ambient. But because of thermal momentum, its temperature does not peak until an hour or two later than the ambient temperature peak. Once the west-facing fruit temperature peaks, the ambient air temperature is well past its peak and its temperature does not remain elevated like that of the east-facing fruit. Therefore, to account for this small, but significant, discrepancy, row direction should be oriented about 10 to 15 degrees west of north (i.e., 345-350°) in cool climates. This is just an educated guess, and I have not determined the ideal row orientation as it would require some advanced modeling or some additional field research. Nevertheless, I will assume that most situations in cool climates can get away with a north-south orientation, especially since many parcel boundaries are laid out in that direction. But the slight jog towards the west should be a consideration for vineyard installations attempting to maximize uniformity of ripeness in their vineyards.
^Source: http://www.winebusiness.com/wbm/?go=getArticle&dataId=58458


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 5, 2012)

Really crappy phone pic, and I promise the last. Quite hard to make out the square as I made it close to the ground so it will be easier to spray paint X's over marking row posts. Again looks MUCH better and bigger in person. I have decided to go with 6' row spacing as I feel there will still be plenty of space with it mostly being handwork/no machinery, and little shadowing from neighboring canopies. Might consider adding one more row to the left side of the screen, or move the whole square to the left side by maybe 6' and more away from the woods.





And I threw this together on some graphing paper so everything is to scale.


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## Wade E (Aug 6, 2012)

Would love to check it out when the grapes are in!


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 6, 2012)

2 more hours in the vineyard (to be) today. Got all the rows measured and sprayed. The "V" rows are vines (3 feet wide) with a 3 foot grass path in between each. Hopefully will start tilling next weekend.


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## fivebk (Aug 6, 2012)

You should probably have at least a 10 foot spacing between the rows ( better airflow, circulation, & more sunlight )
Just something I read and was told. The vines should be no closer that 6ft in the row 8ft would be better.

BOB


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 6, 2012)

fivebk said:


> You should probably have at least a 10 foot spacing between the rows ( better airflow, circulation, & more sunlight )



Originally was going to do 6 foot vine spacing by 8 foot row spacing. Decided on 5 foot because Double A recommends 4'-6' and it worked well with my 60' length and mid post spacing. As far as row spacing, I read numerous threads and google articles and most stating 8' rows were more concerned with larger farm equipment fitting, and most sites stated that 6' spacing is acceptable for backyard vineyards with little mechanical equipment, plus light models I have seen don't show a serious shadowing problem until less than 6'. Could be better, but I really wanting the 50+ quantity pricing per vine of $3.60 vs less than 49 quantity being $7 each, so I needed to fit 100+ as well.


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## grapeman (Aug 7, 2012)

You really don't need to try to fit more in than you really want to just get a price break. The quantity 50, unless than changed it, is for the total order not each variety.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 7, 2012)

grapeman said:


> The quantity 50, unless than changed it, is for the total order not each variety.



Good to know, I just didn't think that the vine and row spacing was that bad. I wanted enough quantity to be able to share with large extended family as well. I am estimating 300-350 bottles per year, and planning on having about 100 per year for myself.


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## ibglowin (Aug 7, 2012)

So enquiring minds want to know why you chose those two varietals? :>


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 7, 2012)

Well, I really just went by what I like. I see they are rated up to zone 6a cold hardiness which puts me on edge a bit. I mapped it down to the exact coordinates on the USDA site, and the are is just over the border from 6b to 6a, but I think I would feel a little better if I just went with something rated more like zone 4 or 5, just to play it on the safe side if we have a _really_ bad winter. I like do like Cabernet Franc, but I have seen a bit of criticism on the forums to where people think it's used more for blending than anything else. I do enjoy Riesling quite a bit as well. I spoke to Double A on the phone today, and they mentioned I might try Cayuga, Noiret, or Marquette. I have a little time to decide, but I would like to order by Octoberish.


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## ibglowin (Aug 7, 2012)

Cab Franc if done right is amazing stuff, but Cab Franc if not fully ripened smells and taste like a big BAD green bell pepper. Not good! I can tell you this. I am growing Marquette and have tasted several bottles of Marquette from Hid in Pines one of our Sponsors and it is without a doubt as good as any Pinot Noir I have ever had. If you have not tried any Marquette do so! It is cold hardy down to ~-30. I fear you will be replanting every 5-10 years if you do go with vinifera noble. Le Crescent is another cold hardy hybrid (white) that taste like a cross between Riesling and Sauv Blanc. These are not your grandfathers cold hardy hybrids these are "state of the art" hybrids that can stand up to any vinifera noble IMHO. They are worth investigating if you have not done so.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 7, 2012)

Ok thanks for the insight. I think I will plan on visiting and/or calling at least 10 local vineyards and pick their brains a bit as well about what will work well around here. I think I may end up needed to tweak my vine spacing a bit, but better to think about it now. I will have to look for Le Crescent as well, sounds good.


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## grapeman (Aug 8, 2012)

Here is a link to it at Double A
http://www.doubleavineyards.com/p-716-lacrescent-mn-1166.aspx

And the University of Minnesota where it was developed.
http://www.grapes.umn.edu/lac/index.html

I haven't commented on varieties yet because I think we all need to decide what we like, but when Iasked, I will give my opinions on them as I have tried most varieites at one time or another.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 8, 2012)

Great, I didn't realize Double A sold it. On a plus side, maybe instead of doing all VSP, maybe I should do some top wire/umbrella training varietals as well this way I'll have experience with both types of training. Might be a little weird, but the whole idea behind this project is to learn as much as possible and try things hands on, so maybe I'll change it up a bit.


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## ibglowin (Aug 8, 2012)

The guys at Double A are fantastic. Talk with them. You will be glad you did in the end.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 8, 2012)

The more immediate issue is addressing the dozens of small to medium boulders I think we are going to encounter. Double A recommends an 18" deep by 18" wide hole per vine so I think I should try to rid the site of rocks up to that depth which will be a huge undertaking. I can get a bobcat for a few hundred (ugh) but not sure if I could do it all in one day, probably take a few.


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## ibglowin (Aug 8, 2012)

Trust me, you don't need 18x18! Its great if you can but don't sweat it. I guarantee those vines will grow just fine in a whole lot less (mine are!). I am growing in not too much more than volcanic rock (more like boulders really) The main thing is to get the whole as close to that if you can (perhaps rent a post hole digger, not a hand one) and back fill with some good organic material. Then keep them watered and fertilized well the first year or so. Those roots will find their way down and through whatever they want to over time.


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 1, 2012)

So, the groundbreaking should begin next weekend. Will have all 10 rows dug out with backhoe to about 18"-24" to remove boulders and make spring trellising and planting much easier. In the meantime, my father decided it was a good time to whack a few trees that were casting some afternoon shade on the last couple rows. 5 down, about 5 more to go. The shading in the aerial pic makes it look a bit worse than I feel it is. Quite a bit of sunlight on the field, but this will allow an extra 1.5ish hours of sunlight in late afternoon. You can see the location of the sun with this neat tool.






You can see a bit of the area opened up to the upper middle of the picture.





A FULL days work (7 hours of breaking my back), but it will all be worth it.





A few more trees notched. They are black birch that are reaching real high and blocking some afternoon sun. Removing three spruce as well.





My dad hard at work cutting everything up as I hauled the brush off to the woods and load up the truck.


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## blumentopferde (Sep 3, 2012)

Hey! Great to see your progress and your hands-on aproach!
I'm planning to do the same in a year or two, so its very motivating to see that there are other people out there who just get it on!

Even though I am also new to winemaking I might have some advice for you:
It is recommended to have a spacing between the rows that equals the height of the greenery. So for good insolation the same rule should apply to the spacing between trees and vines on the west and east side: Your vines should be planted in a distance that equals the height of the surrounding trees.
For the trees on the south you could just have a look at the sun elevation: What is the elevation of the sun at noon, at the time of harvest? let's say it's 45° - then the distance between the trees and vines should be as high as the height of the trees for good insolation. Any vine planted closer to the trees won't be fully exposed during the whole growing season. 

Of course this would leave - if at all - only a tiny spot on your property which is fully exposed to the sun but you want to cultivate the full property.

So I would suggest you to do some zoning:
You have a small fully exposed zone, and the closer you get to the trees, the less sun exposure you have.
With this knowledge you could create some "climate zones". Vines with the highest climatic demands will be planted in the fully exposed zone. Wines with lower demands in the border areas. And then there are areas that practically don't get any direct sunlight at all (southern border areas) where you should plant grapes with low light demands (definitely no red grapes!)

Here's a quickly drawn example of what I'm talking about:





greets, blumentopferde


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 3, 2012)

Excellent suggestion and the image helps. I have really change my initial plans of only planting Cab Franc and Riesling to now include Cayuga, Seyval Blanc, Marquette, NY95, Vignoles and Traminette. This variety will help me understand a variety of training systems and various varietal demands. Hoping to order my vines tomorrow.


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## blumentopferde (Sep 3, 2012)

Cabernet franc is definitely the candidate for the best lit areas. As far as I know Riesling grapes don't like direct exposure to the sun, and apart from that they are very hardy, but ripe very late. Maybe a good candidate for the northwest border zones? Seyval Blanc ripes very early, so maybe a good candidate for the southern border areas. The other grapes I don't know but they will surely find their place...
Are you going to plant the full property at once or will you do it step-by-step?


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 3, 2012)

I am planning on planting in one shot when I receive the vines from Double A in April. Right now it's the more southern and western borders that are shaded, although some of the tree removal will help a bit. Still have to plan irrigation before next year as well.


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## blumentopferde (Sep 4, 2012)

ShockwaveCT said:


> Right now it's the more southern and western borders that are shaded, although some of the tree removal will help a bit.


I can see from the satellite image that you have much less and smaller trees at the eastern border of the property and a street between your property and the forest. So yes, obviously east must be the sunnier side. 
In Germany Riesling is only planted on the best and sunniest sites, but the climate in your location seems to be much warmer and milder than the german climate, so I think you don't need to grow these vines on the best locations. Especially because Riesling tends to taste untypical, when grown in too hot climate. 


> Still have to plan irrigation before next year as well.


For me as a European it is funny that irrigation is such a big topic here. I've googled the climate of Lisbon, CT and with 70 inches of precipitation per year I would regard it as very wet! Where I live there is just half of the precipitation per year and it is very uncommon to use irrigation in a vineyard, the same applies for other traditional wine growing areas which have only a third or even less of this precipitation per year.
Are the summers in Lisbon so dry and hot, that it would be too risky to leave the vines unirrigated?


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## grapeman (Sep 5, 2012)

I agree with bluementoferdeabout the irrigation needs. With that much rainfall, you would only need to water a very small amount in the year of establishment unless the site is pure gravel with no water retention capacity. 

We planted 4 acres of vines in early June this year and did no watering. The vines were tiny transplants started from cuttings 2 months or less earlier. We had 2 inches of rain in June, 1.5 inches in July and .40 inches in August- so it was very dry. How did the young vines fare? They are mostly 4-8 feet tall, depending on the variety.


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 8, 2012)

Ground breaking this morning. Got 5 rows (of 10) dug out with rocks removed. Decided to do every other row for now since there wasn't enough space between each for the backhoe to fit. I am going to put 1/2 the lime needed in the bottom of each row, then fill the dirt back in, then apply the other 1/2 of the required lime on top as well as tri-phosphate and Potassium ammendment, then till it all together. I still need to call Double A's viticulturalist Monday since Uconn recommends 50 lb/1000 sq ft of lime for American grapes and 120 lb/1000 sq ft for European vinifera. I am planting mostly European, but a few native varietals as well. Downside is I should've limed TODAY before the rain showers came, now I have to wait til the next rain. Progress at least.


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## bigdrums2 (Sep 8, 2012)

Looks great and good luck. Are you going to let the bed sit over winter?


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm not really sure what to do once the soil amendments are in place. I don't know if I can leave it bare soil or if I should plant something like winter rye as a cover crop?
Btw, that's not me in the backhoe, I'm 27 hehe. A relative.


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## grapeman (Sep 9, 2012)

So where are the boulders you keep talking about? Those are just normal stones and we just plant around them............. hehehehehehe


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 9, 2012)

Well to be honest, my dad and I both thought there would be many more. There were about 10 that we wouldn't have been able to remove manually. A lot of the pics don't do much justice to their actual size as well. Now I'm gonna end up having to buy X yards of top soil to fill in. Stinks.


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## bigdrums2 (Sep 10, 2012)

You can leave it bare soil and it will be fine. Otherwise I recommend doing something like rye or clover.


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## TimTheWiner (Dec 28, 2012)

Well I was super busy the last 3 months and never took the time to update this thread. I was spending 3-6 hours a day with my dad prepping the site, soil, and removing trees all of September and October, until the weather turned early November. Unfortunately I did not have a chance to plant a cover crop, but I am not overly worried about it. All rocks have been removed to a depth of 2 feet (although small stones were kept to aid in soil drainage). Limestone, bonemeal, and potash have been added accordingly to aid in soil conditions. I did pick up 48 cedar posts, but did not have time to get them in the ground before the freeze set in. Therefore, I will have to get in high gear to try and get this done before the vines arrive mid-April. Here are some pics of the last couple months progress with a couple video clips as well. Enjoy!

*09/15/2012*
Dad backfilling a row





Electric company removing trees that were entangled in power lines (should give an extra 20-30 min of morning sun)





This mini excavator was great for the job, while the big backhoe worked on tree removing and moving heavy boulders






*10/01/2012

*Dad back-filling row number 8






*10/13/2012

*48 Cedar posts for trellis






*10/17/2012

*All 10 rows back filled (soil minus rocks)






*10/27/2012

*Lime in place and tilling it in, grandma helping out too




Me spreading bonemeal and potash on top after tilling in the lime





Everybody hard at work the last few days, large equipment hauling away rocks, myself tilling, my dogs removing more trees, and grandma moving smaller rocks and debris





Halfway done






*11/04/2012

*Winter in the air, a cold crisp day. All is DONE (for now)





Thanks to my dad's hard work, we have eliminated over 10 trees and over 20 feet to the field which should remove afternoon shade and add at least an hour of afternoon sunlight





Our final pile of rocks removes, may not look like much but equates to about a tri-axle load. Over 70 wheelbarrow loads (FULL) plus 7+ backhoe dumps (large bucket).





Sideview of the completed site. Now for trellising and planting in the spring





*Here is a good video of the field work about half way through
*http://www.youtube.com/embed/FEwV0WqAVu8

*Video clip of last few days of site prep and rock removal
*[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miRRYv23wzg[/ame]


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## grapeman (Dec 29, 2012)

Thanks for the update. It looks great after all that work you did and should give you a great spot for your vineyard. That was a lot of work as you are sure of right now! Best of luck to you and the family in realizing your dreams with this.


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## M1wino (Dec 29, 2012)

Looks like a great start! Keep us posted


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## TimTheWiner (Dec 29, 2012)

Not sure if I posted my updated varietal list, but here it is (1x or .5x means 1 row or 1/2 row). Each row is 60' or 12 plants long (a bit cramped 5' vine spacing). I really wanted to to try a lot of different grapes so if one is not good, then hopefully another will be, or I can possibly blend as well. My only issue with this is that 1 row if producing 80%-100% will be barely enough for a single 5-6 gallon batch, so if they aren't producing well then I'll have to use much smaller carboys, etc.

CAB FRANC uprightt RED 1x MAKE DRY

RIESLING upright WHITE 1x MAKE OFF-DRY to SEMI-SWEET

NOIRET semi upright RED 1x MAKE DRY

CAYUGA trailing WHITE 1x MAKE SEMI-SWEET 

SEYVAL BLANC semi upright WHITE 1x MAKE OFF DRY

MARQUETTE semi upright RED 1x MAKE DRY

CHARDONEL upright WHITE 1x MAKE DRY to OFF-DRY

TRAMINETTE upright WHITE 1x MAKE SEMI-SWEET

NY95 trailing RED .5x MAKE DRY

LACRESCENT trailing WHITE .5x MAKE OFF-DRY to SEMI_SWEET 

VIGNOLES upright DESSERT .5x MAKE SWEET DESSERT

VIDAL BLANC upright .5x MAKE SWEET DESSERT


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## TimTheWiner (Jan 27, 2013)

Well, an update (sort of). Just found out my wife is pregnant with our first baby!! I am 28 and it is both of our first. SO thrilled. Definitely changes your outlook on life almost immediately. Due Aug. 30th, so I will be tending to my baby vines all summer, then start the real work in the fall, lol. I am already gearing up and further educating myself on training types, trellising materials, and how the project is going to go once the vines arrive early April.


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## grapeman (Jan 27, 2013)

Congrats on the baby! Good luck with an uneventful pregnancy and then you can look forward to many restless nights.


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## ibglowin (Jan 27, 2013)

Fantastic news! 

Keep us posted on "both" of your babies!


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## TimTheWiner (Feb 4, 2013)

I am thrilled to find out that I will be adding Gewurztraminer to the list. I really wanted to order them back in Sept, however they were already sold out. Very disappointing as this is one of my favorite whites (especially pairing with Thai cuisine). So I will actually not be planting the NY95 or LaCrescent and putting in the Gewurz in their place. Very excited. Only 8 more weeks!!!


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## grapeman (Feb 4, 2013)

If it was me and I wanted Gewurtz I would skip the Traminette since it is so much like the Gewurtz and keep at least the LaCreescent. This will be the Riesling of the future. It has all the attributes of the Riesling and is easier to grow and grows in a wider region in the northern areas.Just my humble opinion which I am sure isn't worth much.


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## ibglowin (Feb 4, 2013)

LaCrescent gets my vote. Fantastic wine!


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## TimTheWiner (Feb 4, 2013)

Damn. Well maybe I'll cancel the traminette then and do a full row of LaCrescent


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## GreginND (Feb 5, 2013)

I'll second the La Crescent. It makes an awesome wine. I would grow it but it hasn't been such a reliable grower here. I'll be purchasing grapes though as it is one I must offer at my winery.


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## TimTheWiner (Apr 7, 2013)

So I _did_ decide to keep the La Crescent, and now that we're in the 50°s (even though the breeze is cold), I'm back out to work. Got 45 2' deep holes dug with my dad and an auger yesterday, and as sore as I am today, I managed to get 10 mid posts in. Going for 10 more tomorrow, then end posts Tue/Wed. Want to get em all in before rain. Here's a few pics.


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## grapeman (Apr 7, 2013)

Keep up the good work! We want to see the vineyard develop over the years and see some wine coming out of all the hard work. Good job.


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## ibglowin (Apr 8, 2013)

Looking good there!


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## DirtyDawg10 (Apr 8, 2013)

Nice! Keep up the good work!


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## saddlebronze (Apr 9, 2013)

Best of luck with the baby and the vineyard. I did the same thing 27 years ago and they both worked out. It's good to be young with endless energy.


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## TimTheWiner (May 23, 2013)

So it's been nearly 6 weeks since my last update, and BOY have I been busy. Nearly every day that hasn't been raining has been outside setting trellis posts, augering holes, setting deer fence posts, planting the vines, watering etc etc. A short "break" while prepping my apartment for new tenants, then I need to get back out next week to finish the deer fence and gates, as well as starting all the trellis and anchor wires. Here are some photos of the last 6 weeks.

*04-11-2013 
Trellis Posts Finished






04-18-2013
Augering Holes for Vines (120 total)






04-22-2013
Setting 4x4 Deer Fence Corner Posts






04-25-2013
Vines Arrived - BIG difference between grafted and 1 year extra






04-26-2013

Staking bamboo and lines





Hard at work (my back was killing me by the end of the week)





My watering system. Don't like the idea of waiting for rain, and the well is too shallow to use water on site. So I fill at my house (240 gallons = 2,000 lbs! Can really feel that moving in the van, thankfully only 3 mile drive.






04-27-2013
Grow Tubes Installed and Pic of planted Cayuga vine
















05-03-2013
Deer Fencing Temporary Install (to be unfolded upwards later)






05-18-2013
3 week growth of Marquette and Cayuga









*


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## grapeman (May 23, 2013)

Well it is looking great there. I know it is a TON of work, but you feel good about doing it, don't you?


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## TimTheWiner (May 23, 2013)

Oh yeh, definitely feel great. Haven't lost a pound, but haven't changed my diet either. I would love to do it in place of my 9-5 (and that's nights 9-5), but we'll see what happens.


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## mgmarty (May 23, 2013)

I only planted 72 vines, but man it's still a lot of work! I like your pics. You have done an excellent job! We both have a lot of work to do. I look forward to more of your pics.


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## mgmarty (May 24, 2013)

I just read your posts start to Finnish. I thought I had a lot of preliminary work!! You have been busy! I will be following your progress. You should be making some great wine!


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## TimTheWiner (May 24, 2013)

Thanks a lot. Truly a work in progress and that first sip will be oh so sweet. The work comes in phases, but most of the hard back breaking labor is done.


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## ibglowin (May 24, 2013)

Looks like you have been busy! Beautiful sight to see.


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## DirtyDawg10 (May 24, 2013)

Looks great!!


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## bellmtbbq (May 24, 2013)

Looks great and glad you planted other reds besides Can Franc- the only reason the variety still exists is because it has Cabernet in its name (my opinion)


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## TimTheWiner (May 25, 2013)

I dunno, I had a Cab Franc that a friend made last year that turned out pretty great. It can be difficult to ripen, but I still prefer it over some other reds (specifically St. Croix which does well here, but I am not a fan of the plum notes). I DO wish I had done maybe Frontenac or NY95 though in place of 1 or 2 of the whites.


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## Trieste (May 26, 2013)

Nice work! Curious about your trellis approach. Are you planning different trellises for different vines?


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## TimTheWiner (May 26, 2013)

Mainly VSP, but will be doing TWC for the Marquette and Noiret as well as Cayuga and LaCrescent.


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## TimTheWiner (Jun 16, 2013)

Deer fence is complete. Gates done and fully contained now. Now I can let the dog roam as I work, she seems to like it. And toddler eventually as well. Only thing "left" is all my trellis wire and securing end posts to earth anchors. Should be done within 2-3 weeks. Spent all of today laying black plastic to keep weeds down under the fence, and will line with rocks later. Also, the front lattice gate will have a trim piece around it to finish it off and making an arbor type piece for the top and a Green Mist sign.


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## ibglowin (Jun 17, 2013)

Pretty as a picture and looks like one happy pooch!


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## TimTheWiner (Jul 29, 2013)

So it's been a while since posting, so here's an update. I have growth on all but about 5 vines that have reached the top of the tubes, but most are MUCH higher. I have decided to spray with Sevin because the Jap beetle damage was getting pretty bad, although I'd like to look into alternative methods once they are producing grapes. Grass filled in a LOT more than anticipated, and weed whacking between every vine got old quick, so based on the recommendation of another thread, I dedided to use Roundup Extended control concentrate. The stuff is not cheap (cost about $100 to do all 10 rows) but if I can spray it once and lasts all summer then I'd say it's worth it. Hopefully it does not drain into the ground and affect the vine roots. Anyway, looking good, and I have used twine to keep some of the vines from growing along the bottom wire and stay as upright as possible.


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## grapeman (Jul 29, 2013)

Those are starting to grow nicely.


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## TimTheWiner (Jul 29, 2013)

Any idea what this is? Could it be damage from the Roundup? About 3 leaves on 1 vine. Cayuga


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## grapeman (Jul 29, 2013)

It could be a bit of spray drift. Hopefully the vine will be alright.


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## TimTheWiner (Jul 29, 2013)

But I am ok using the roundup in general right? What do most people do for grass/weed control in there rows?


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## mgmarty (Jul 30, 2013)

A hoe. 360 feet every week.


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## TimTheWiner (Jul 30, 2013)

Wow, sounds like a lot of work. I'd be doing 600 feet then. And still curious what larger 10+ acre vineyards do.


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## Tess (Jul 30, 2013)

It does look to me like round up damage. I don't grow grapes but I do garden.
You don't use round up between the rows of your vegetables. You hoe and mulch and for bigger gardens you use a small rototiller. 
Id imagine as mush as your paying for roundup, the rototiller will be Cheaper in the long run. 
If you must use round up try straight white vinegar instead. 
Its cheaper and does the same thing on a sunny day.


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## TimTheWiner (Jul 30, 2013)

I suppose a small tiller would probably work well sad it's true for what I've spent I could probably have a used one already. I'll have to ask around some local vineyards and see what they do.


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## grapeman (Jul 30, 2013)

Larger vineyards use herbidices in most cases. Be careful of extended season Roundup sprays. Some include 2-4,D which you do not want near the vineyard. Read the ingredients list on the label to be sure. I used to do the hand hoe and rototiller thing until I got up to more than an acre of vines. It is time consuming and hard work. I now do one or two applications of Roundup and a residual spray labeled for grapes. You need to apply before growth begins and possibly a spray later in the year if you can time it right with growth.


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## TimTheWiner (Jul 30, 2013)

Good to know, I will check the label but it IS the extended control in the gray container. On the plus side the grow tubes are still on the vibes so the chances of overspray onto vibe foliage is less, but it still scares me a bit.


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## garymc (Jul 30, 2013)

If your weed problems are mostly grass, you can use clethodim. It kills grass slowly and you can get it all over your grapes without harm. Then you would have to pull or hoe broadleaf weeds. I use Roundup also, but I've never used extended control. I would think anything that keeps killing in the soil might be a risk to young vines. But I haven't researched the pelargonic acid, the additional ingredient in the extended version.


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 4, 2013)

Unrelated, but thought I'd share my joy and introduce my first baby, Kai. The newest wino in the family lol. Born 08/31/13 at 6 lb 12 oz.


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 5, 2013)

Congrats on your new arrival!!!

They are a bundle of joy..

Your vineyard is shaping up nicely as well..


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## grapeman (Sep 5, 2013)

Sleeping soundly and the bottle is still full.................
Congrats on the helper!


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## saddlebronze (Sep 6, 2013)

Congrats. I had my little one crush the grapes with his feet when he was two. Still have the page where we put his grape soaked footprint in the diary. He is 27 now. Enjoy it goes fast.


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## DirtyDawg10 (Sep 9, 2013)

Congrats to you and your family! Enjoy!


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