# I need to rant....



## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

Why is it at other forums, you just cannot get a simple answer to a question, it seems like everyone needs to try to "educate" you or twist your words....a lot of pretentious people out there.
Maybe that's why I enjoy the Wine Making Talk community so much.
Ok, I'm done, I kept it short....


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## Wade E (Dec 10, 2012)

I know exactly what you mean and when I became administration n here made sure this site didn't go in tha direction!!!!!


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## dralarms (Dec 10, 2012)

Yea, I found this site out of frustration with another site that everyone "talks down to you"


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## GreginND (Dec 10, 2012)

Hey Pumpkinman

I think I know what post you mean. I responded to it. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. 

I can understand your frustration. And I also find this forum to be the most supportive and helpful. People do make assumptions about things that are unsaid based on the context. That's human nature. Can't read minds.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

Wade, your vision is reflected in this community, not everyone will always agree, but this community appears able to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Dralarms, it is that "everyone talks down to you" that really frustrates me, these people obviously were born with wine making knowledge, and never had to learn...lol
Instead of just leaving a question that you do not know the answer to alone, that groups feels compelled to answer it with factoids about the question in reference, and turn your question around making it sound like you were asking an idiotic question in the first place...grrrrr

But, I have found a group much worse, I stumbled upon a wine makers club blog/forum that apparently had issues with some of the members here, after reading a few posts that were direct attacks on members here, I stopped reading. That particular group is the most arrogant group I've ever come across....


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

Yep Greg, that's the one, the weed grower thing caught me the wrong way.
I've done a bunch of searches and came up with the same, it's not something that I will carry in my inventory, just something that I wanted to help a few customers find.
Thanks again,
Tom


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## GreginND (Dec 10, 2012)

Pumpkinman said:


> Instead of just leaving a question that you do not know the answer to alone, that groups feels compelled to answer it with factoids about the question in reference, and turn your question around making it sound like you were asking an idiotic question in the first place...grrrrr
> 
> ....



Yes, exactly. I was just about to make that observation!


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## grapeman (Dec 10, 2012)

Pumpkinman said:


> But, I have found a group much worse, I stumbled upon a wine makers club blog/forum that apparently had issues with some of the members here, after reading a few posts that were direct attacks on members here, I stopped reading. That particular group is the most arrogant group I've ever come across....


 
And that is why a few of them have been banned from this forum. We welcome all with open arms, but they need to play nicely. We do not casually ban anyone. Most winemakers are great and intersting mix of people, but there are a few like you elude to that seem to live to stir up trouble.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

I was really surprised when I read the attacks on members, this other wine club literally had nothing good to say about anyone at all, even towards some in their group. It is a shame, I am a member of growing forums (giant pumpkins) and those of us with more experience try to mentor or coach the newer growers in order to have them do well and learn the correct ways, there may be dozens of ways to do the "right way", but belittling isn't one, it is a surefire way of getting someone new to the process to quit.


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## BobF (Dec 10, 2012)

Ok, now I'm curious. Where do I find it?


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

I sent you a message


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## BobF (Dec 10, 2012)

Got it, thanks Tom


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## WVMountaineerJack (Dec 10, 2012)

If you would just learn to ask good questions  



Pumpkinman said:


> Why is it at other forums, you just cannot get a simple answer to a question, it seems like everyone needs to try to "educate" you or twist your words....a lot of pretentious people out there.
> Maybe that's why I enjoy the Wine Making Talk community so much.
> Ok, I'm done, I kept it short....


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## Julie (Dec 10, 2012)

Aaaaah you guys are talking about that crew who wants to shove my head into a pointed bucket.


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## g8keeper (Dec 10, 2012)

Julie said:


> Aaaaah you guys are talking about that crew who wants to shove my head into a pointed bucket.


 
wth???.....that doesn't make any sense at all....i have been with this forum for almost a year now, and julie, you have been absolutely nothing but friendly and welcoming....i would like to know what forum this is....these people sound absolutely absurd....


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## K-9 (Dec 10, 2012)

I am curious too - had an issue recently with one of them.


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## Julie (Dec 10, 2012)

It is not a forum but a blog.

K-9 some of the members on the forum that you recently had an issue is part of this blog.


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## Tom_S (Dec 10, 2012)

I admit that I'm curious too. Aw heck with it, why don't you just publicly name & shame?


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## g8keeper (Dec 10, 2012)

Tom_S said:


> I admit that I'm curious too. Aw heck with it, why don't you just publicly name & shame?


 
here, here tom....i agree.....lol...


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## grapeman (Dec 10, 2012)

Sorry guys, we refrain from commenting specifically on that forum. They keep sending spies in and then berate members and bash this whole forum. It is hard to imagine what they gain out of this.


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## BobF (Dec 10, 2012)

My $.02USD - Don't bother yourself. There are some folks there that have a good deal of very solid winemaking knowledge. IMO, they ventured out in search of sycophants to follow them. They weren't immediately greeted with awe and admiration, so they had a tantrum.

It reminds me of a group of programmers I use to manage. A bunch of really talented folks that had zero interpersonal skills. I told them that all of their talent was useless to me if other people couldn't stand to work with them, so we embarked on intense 'soft skills training'. 

Most adapted and ended up doing very well. A few were let go. Consider those members from the other place as having been 'let go' and forget about them.

It's one thing to have disagreements on technical aspects. It's quite another to resort to personal attacks and insults. Apparently, making the attacks and throwing insults around make them feel better about themselves. Surely you've experienced people like this before ... so why bother?

I know, train wreck syndrome ...


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## K-9 (Dec 10, 2012)

Ok - I do not know the blog but that is fine. i was just curious. I will leave it at that!


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## Thig (Dec 10, 2012)

I got tired of it and now I don't even follow the other forums/blogs. This is the only forum I need and I always read Jack Keller's blog.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

Julie, you are correct, I was literally shocked when I saw your name mentioned, I felt the need to defend you, you've been nothing but real cool to me from day one, I chose to refrain from saying anything, I am close enough to them where I could reach out and meet up with them face to face if they said anything assinine....
K-9 I saw you mentioned as well.
Grapeman, out of respect for this community, I didn't post any reference to them, I agree, but I am happy to send private messages...lol...it is incredible how petty people can be, I thought the days of acting like a turd were over in high school.
It almost makes me feel embarrassed as a New Yorker, hopefully not everyone will think that we are all like that.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

Tom, Ken, K-9 Private message sent.


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## Julie (Dec 10, 2012)

Pumpkinman said:


> Julie, you are correct, I was literally shocked when I saw your name mentioned, I felt the need to defend you, you've been nothing but real cool to me from day one, I chose to refrain from saying anything, I am close enough to them where I could reach out and meet up with them face to face if they said anything assinine....
> K-9 I saw you mentioned as well.
> Grapeman, out of respect for this community, I didn't post any reference to them, I agree, but I am happy to send private messages...lol...it is incredible how petty people can be, I thought the days of acting like a turd were over in high school.
> It almost makes me feel embarrassed as a New Yorker, hopefully not everyone will think that we are all like that.



Why thank you Tom, lol, but I don't think you can do anything without calling my husband first, he would like to meet them. 

Just remember they have the right to do and say what they want on their own blog. I just see them as a bunch who live in a very small world and very small minded. And I think they all deserve each other, lol, we don't have to deal with them.


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## dangerdave (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm happy to say that this is the first and only wine forum to which I have or will contribute. Why ruin a good thing?


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## GreginND (Dec 10, 2012)

I think there are more important things to do (ahem - make some wine) than worry about what others are saying outside of here.


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## grapeman (Dec 10, 2012)

Pumpkinman I am glad you seem to be on the "enlightened side" and not on "the other side"




. Anyone within 50 miles or so of that place raises the radar and flags. Glad to have you here.


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## joeswine (Dec 10, 2012)

*Them?????????????????????????????*

ARE THESE THE SAME PEOPLE AS BEFORE?IF SO I UNDERSTAND FULLY ..........NOT WORTH THE TIME OR EFFORT TO PRINT..................


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## Trackinghound (Dec 10, 2012)

I am new to all this and learning a lot from here. I have asked some pretty rookie questions and have received answers that I that make since and have helped me. At no time did someone make me feel like " gee this guy is dumb".

I appreciate everyones input and advice with the few questions I have had. I am learning by trail and error. I looked at a few different forums and settled on this one. Thanks to those who have assisted me so far.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

All of the points are well taken, I've managed many people before, and I guess that I am surprised that there are still adults out there that use that sort of nonsense to boost their own ego, we all have levels of expertise and can all learn from each other, in the IT field, learning is a daily thing.
Nuf said, I'm over it, trust me, I have more important things in my life than to let a few selfrighteous, self appointed experts get in my way of having fun.


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## Arne (Dec 10, 2012)

I have been on this forum for quite some time. When I started, I knew practically nuthin about making wine. Anyway, when I started I asked some of the same dumb questions, but like most everyone else that gets on here and asks questions, I was stumped and really wanted a decent answer fast. I always got them and watching the different posts come on here, most are answered quickly and politely. Kind of makes you wonder how the same people will come on and answer something they have answered before, but do it willingly. An awful lot of the folks that ask questions are in a panic and a timely answer kind of makes their day. Pretty soon they are on here helping others and so the world goes on, but it is sure nice to see a friendly place in the maniac world we live in. Arne.


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## Terry0220 (Dec 10, 2012)

Ok, adding my 2 cent s here as well. For being new to winemaking I search for information and help in doing so,,,after reading several blogs and forums I am SO GLAD I stumbled onto this one!! The other were IMO very tastelss and really uninformative to me, when reading I became afraid to ask any questions for fear of getting a wrong answer and messing up my wine. This is a, no this forum is the greatest one out there, it is filled with a bunch of great ppl and winemakers of all types that are always willing to type in and help or advise on any question posted, because of this we all gain in learning from each other! To to double h e hockey sticks to the others!! Let them learn from us!!


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## tonyt (Dec 10, 2012)

Pumpkinman said:


> Why is it at other forums, you just cannot get a simple answer to a question, it seems like everyone needs to try to "educate" you or twist your words....a lot of pretentious people out there.
> Maybe that's why I enjoy the Wine Making Talk community so much.
> Ok, I'm done, I kept it short....



I agree 100%. That's why I almost never visit the other forums anymore. I used to read two others but got tired of curt answers and pretentiousness. Often answers to any given question in the "kit winemaking" area would start off like "well I would never make wine from those kits but my opinion is . . ." And I stumbled onto that blog a year ago and couldn't believe the way they talk to and about each other. I've never been back there.


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## saddlebronze (Dec 10, 2012)

There are other forums? Why? All the cool wine people are here.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 10, 2012)

Amen to that!


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## DirtyDawg10 (Dec 10, 2012)

I have no knowledge of the issues with the other forum/blog but I am of the mindset that you never stoop to the level of people like that. They are not worth it so don't waste your time or breath worrying about them.


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