# Missoula Vinyard



## OilnH2O

All those photos of those members with new vinyards got me inspired! A visit to the Junior Partner's Godfather in B.C., and the one who inspired the wine-making, produced 6 shoots and a cutting!







Inspired by "Mutt and Jeff" these are Alphonse, Bert, Colby &amp; Charlie, not sure about "D" yet -- maybe The Donald. Rounding them out are Elvis and Fox -- although the last may change too!








What kind? Wellll... we'll know later. The Godfather got them from a vinyard in British Columbia, and he's pretty sure they are white -- but doesn't know what vinafera.






His are two years old and have "baby grapes" this year and I guess we'll just have to be patient (as with all things wine, eh?)



*Edited by: OilnH2O *


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## masta

Looking good and nothing better than trying your hand at growing some of your own grapes!


The view in the background still blows my mind...I really need to get out west and see it for real!


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## jobe05

That veiw is absolutely incredible......


And now the start of your own mini vineyard........


Good family, friends, a good glass of wine with the one you love.....


Could life possibly get any better!






Great start, and I like your naming..... I'd keep fox untill you find out what kind they are...


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## grapeman

Nice beginnings to making some wine. Are you going to grow them in containers, or set them in the ground somewhere? There are ways to produce them in containers - just Google it up. You might want to put a stake in the pot if you are going to leave them in there a while so they will grow nice and straight - although Elvis may try to Rock around a while.


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## OilnH2O

I think right now, we'll get them going in the containers this year. There 's a spot along our back fence we might just prepare this year (as has been suggested elsewhere on the forum) and plant next spring... Maybe by then we'll find out what kind they are as well!


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## OilnH2O

UPDATE! Does anyone know just how long it might be before we see some "bud-break" or a leaf on these vines? They were cut one day, dipped in rooting solution and transported to Montana the next day, and in the ground the 3rd day... but I gotta admit we wonder if we're not just watering &amp; tending _sticks_! It's been a day over 2 weeks -- or is my impatience just getting in the way???


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## Waldo

Be patient !! My Blackberries were from cuttings and from the day I received the cuttings until I saw the first sign of a leaf was about 5 weeks. Not sure how grapes measure up with Blackberries but I would think they would be similiar.


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## grapeman

Don't rush things. Remember this process is part of making wine!. Before the grapes form roots and leaves, they need to callous. Just pushing the cuttings in the soil will produce roots-eventually. The callouses need some heat and a couple weeks to a month to form. It's best if they form the callous before you see the buds expand into leaves. The callouses look like raised whitish areas at the cut part of the cutting. Don't overwater at this point either- wet soil makes cool soil. For best callous formation, you can put the cuttings in some potting soil upside down, burying them. Then put a soil heating pad on top. Best formation is at about 80 degrees. Once they callous, they may be planted rightside up(make sure they aren't planted upside down or they won't grow). All this sounds complicated



, but they will eventually root on their own-but don't expect 100 percent sucess.


Instructions from Double A VIneyards


"
<BLOCKQUOTE>


1) When you receive your cuttings inspect them to make sure that they are still moist and properly labeled.


2) Small quantities of cuttings can be stored in a refrigerator in plastic with moist packing material around them. Avoid freezing them because this will dry them out. Avoid Storing vines with fruit as ethylene gas is released by ripe fruit and this can kill buds.


3) Larger quantities can be buried in the ground in a sand pit or a well drained soil. Dig a trench as deep as the cuttings and then cover them with 6-8 inches of soil. The cuttings should be placed bottom side up (flat end of the cutting) so that it will warm in the spring and form callous. This is the white tissue that roots originate from. If it is very dry in the spring you may need to water the cuttings.


4) Small quantities of cuttings can be calloused by placing them upside down in moist peat moss and placing a heat mat on the base of the cuttings. A temperature of 80° F is ideal for callous formation. The idea is to heat the base of the cutting to form callous and keep the buds cool so they do not begin to grow until the callous has formed.


5) Once cuttings have calloused they can be planted in the greenhouse or the nursery row. Make sure that the soil does not dry out, since the cuttings have no roots, but too wet is not good either. A wet soil is generally a cold soil and we want a warm rooting zone."


Don't rush the leaves- best to form roots first.


Keep watering sparingly and good luck!



</BLOCKQUOTE>


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## OilnH2O

Wow...I knew I'd get stopped by the Patience Police!






Okay -- I'll continue on with my procedure which has been to keep them watered but not wet -- let them warm in the sun -- and visit them each evening and sit and sip a glass of wine, watching the sun set and thinking kind thoughts!


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## mountainjaybird

Don't know if this is relevant to your situation, but I ordered nine vines from Millers just after Memorial Day and they were planted the first week of June.Only two have any signs of life at all. They all had really long roots that had been trimmed before shipment and I trimmed the upper parts to leave 2 buds for training later (with luck). After 2 weeks and no temperatures over 80, I have two vines with tiny leaves peeking out at the sun. I am attempting to grow grapes at 10,000 feet elevation in Colorado with a very short growing period. Being patient isn't easy but I'm hopeful they'll all have leaves by the Fourth of July and can grow before the snow starts in September. Cross your fingers!


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## OilnH2O

I'm with you!(Fingers x'd) 


Surprisingly, although we're so far north and at 2,900 feet elevation, we have (relatively speaking for Montana) mild winters. There are several local winerys with grapes -- Marechal Foch and some other cold-tolerant varieties. I'm still hopefull for these vines -- they are only on their 4th week and only 10 days or so with daytime temps above 75F. Nightime down into the 40's so they cool off although the sun hits them by 6am. But,stillwith no real indication of "bud break," leaf buds, or signs of life.






BUT, yesterday up to 89F, today is over 90, only a few pop-up cu's only one of which looks like it might develop into a T-storm, and it's past time to "sit in the vinyard" and have a glass of wine and encourage 'em on! Today is our anniversary -- I only add that because we have a Rodney Strong Chalk Hill (Sonoma) chard on ice for the celebration -- and the kind thoughts in the "vinyard!" Then a t-bone on the grill



! 


Send some pic's of yours -- and what kind are they?


Dave


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## bilbo-in-maine

Dave - I'm just speculating here, but perhaps lack of visible progress is 
mainly due to lack of enough heat. Being in containers, the vines and the 
soil they are in cool off a lot at night, and the soil must take quite awhile 
during a sunny day to begin to warm. Do anything you can think of to 
enhance a warm environment for them, i.e., south side of the house right 
next to the wall with tar paper behind the pots, maybe even temporary 
plastic "greenhouse" structures over them to maintain a more even heat 
from day to night. Be careful not to overwater since they are in pots. Good 
luck with your vines!
Bill


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## OilnH2O

Thanks, Bill -- and Laurel too!


I may try the greenhouse "tents" over each pot. You are correct, of course, about trying to do this in these northern climes! Can cool off REAL quick!






In fact, here's this evening about 1 hour ago (9:30 MDT) as we sat in the "vinyard" encouraging them to GROW!








Then, a few minutes later it looked like this....












It may be tougher to grow stuff up here in Maine and Montana, but you sure can't beat these summer evenings, can you!






Dave


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## Waldo

Awesome !!






Hey, the sunset looks pretty cool too !


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## MedPretzel

I'm depressed.






But it looks fantastic! Very beautiful!





M.


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## grapeman

Dave,


Great sunset






Do you have a spot in the sun that is on the ground? Your pots are exposed to the air underneath, so when it cools down at night, the soil temp drops quickly. If you could place them on the ground, preferably a dark background, they will absorb and hold the heat better. I moved the last of my cuttings out of the greenhouse about a week ago. They were on benches and I don't heat the greenhouse anymore this time of year. They hadn't rooted yet(after 3 months) and I had about given up on those. The soil stays warmer than the air at night and that was all it took-now almost all of the rest of the cuttings have at least started rooting.






I know you like the vineyard up on the deck, but it can't look quite right with no vines yet. Let's get those babies growing so you can enjoy the whole experience.


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## OilnH2O

I suppose I could get some sticks and just put them between the boards and have the same effect...






Ok, I'll move 'em! (By the way, they're tented up now as well....)


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## grapeman

If you used plain solid poly to tent them, be cautious. Temps in a small area under clear poly in direct sun can reach up to about 135-40 degrees- too hot for the vines. If you are using regular grow tents it should be OK. If regular poly- cut some slits in the plastic going from near bottom to near top. This lets the superheated air escape in the sunlight but closes up at night to keep the heat in.


Dang I'm picky



. Sorry, it came from growing veggies commercially for close to fourty years.


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## OilnH2O

It's dry cleaner bags, with some holes, but with that caution I'll put larger slits in them -- but that may dry them out quicker (our humidity was around 28% today). They looked great with lots of condensation on the inside but they were warm!



Sitting on the ground on black weed-block right now.... Was up to 91 today and low of 51 tonight -- high tomorrow even warmer. Sorry -- don't mean to sound like the wx man!


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## grapeman

Sounds like you have it under control. Hopefully in about a week, they will start responding, especially if the weather stays nice like that. We actually had some pretty fair weather here last week, but now we are back to that same old rainy pattern- 100% humidity


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## grapeman

Dave,
Did the cuttings root yet out there? Fill us in, it's been a month since you tented them. Hope summer has been treating you good.


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## OilnH2O

Well....it's a bust. Prompted by your request for an update, I dug one of those leaf-less wonders up...and.... It appears I've been -- as I'd feared -- growing a great crop of STICKS! 


I did visit the person in BC that gave me the cuttings back in may. They were from his vines -- he has 7 but it turns out 2 are dead. He had a late frost and while he was showing early leaves on his, the cuttings were from above them -- they were last year's growth. (Does that make sense? Am I explaining that right?) Anyway, he said the ones that produced this year (this was their second year) had a lot of dead canes. I think we got 6 examples of those dead canes!






SOOOOOooooo....(thinking positive!) I can get some LIVE cuttings from him nextweek off the ones that lived -- they are doing well -- and try to propagate them. What do you think? Is that possible? Westill may have something yet to overwinter until next spring!


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## grapeman

Sorry to hear about the dead cuttings. Yes you can start the live cuttings. 

Following is a link to a method of *Mist propagation of herbaceous cuttings. http://www.practicalwinery.com/mayjune99/rapidpropagation.htm



scroll down to the Mist propagation section.



In my opinion, I think it is too late to start this year. Wait until spring and try another shot at it. Also if he had 2 out of 7 dead plants, I think I would look for a hardier variety. Good luck whatever you decide.

Richard*


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## NorthernWinos

Here is a couple Links with some info on growing grape cuttings....

http://www.bunchgrapes.com/cuttings.html

http://w3.aces.uiuc.edu/NRES/faculty/Skirvin/cfar/wintprop.htm

Hope this is helpfull.....



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## OilnH2O

Great articles -- you guys are the best! I'm chalking this up to "learning" and may try to start from scratch -- I can't remember who it was who posted that their discarded grape pack started in their compost heap... But my Washington State Merlot is looking great, and that grape pack may just provide something to play with!




Thanks to you both.

Dave


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## OilnH2O

I thought about starting a new thread, but figured I'd add to this, considering this is kinda sorta "Phase II"






First Marachal Foch vine planted -- these are from about 40 cuttings thanks to Bill and Rich -- (about 20 were successful -- so far -- I'm still callousing the remainder with hopes they'll succeed).








The tools in the background are for just about everything in our yard! Just to get the hole for the vines is a digging bar plus the post hole digger!








The ones on the left (what will become the middle row) are Leon Millot. Callousing are more M. Foch, Frontenac, St. Pepin and Landot Noir. I'll have room for 27 vines when it's all finished.


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## grapeman

Looking good out there Dave. Thats going to make a really nice spot. What spacing did you end up going with on them?


The Leon Millot are quick to root. The others hould catch up when the heat get to them good. Won't be long and you can make some mighty fine wine from your vines!


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## bmorosco

looks great I wish you alot of luck


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## Waldo

Looking good oil.......Hope they all do great for you


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## Wade E

Oil joined in the vine ranks!


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## OilnH2O

Rich, the space between rows is about 4 1/2 feet and 4' between plants -- for a small backyard effort, I was trying to figure out how to maximize plants in a minimal space, but still get good yield. Some time ago, I visited a friend in California (Marin Co.) who had a neighbor with a similar set-up and he had vines every two feet with 3 feet between rows! It was just for show, though, and "braggin' rights." The neighbor did NOT make wine!






Thanks, everyone, for the positive comments!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Sooo, Dave, where are you in your endeavor to grow grape vines? I'm betting that you've had a lot more heat and sun than I have in coastal Maine so far. Have the vinelets taken off by now?


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## OilnH2O

Here is an update, showing several of the vines just peeking out of the growth tubes. I really like the tubes -- not sure whether they really do increase the growth rate, but they sure do make "vinyard management" easy at this stage!






This is a Leon Millot in the foreground, and my two $5 Edelweiss are at the far end. 






This is one of the Edelweiss -- and note the two stems neatly trimmed! I'd like to "trim" the local deer herd but we're within city limits. This was the first one to peek out above the growth tubes and it lasted about one day before it was nipped off! One reason for putting the rest of the wires up is to drape the bird/deer netting and get these to the point of survival.


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## grapeman

Looks great Dave. Believe it or not they did a perfect job for you. This is called heading that I was talking about. You will force bud development at the height of the wire and those shoots will become the cordons for VSP training. Way to go deer!



You may have to resort to bow practice. Gee wouldn't it be a shame if a real deer was mistaken for that deer shaped target?


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## OilnH2O

My young Able Assistant, now 16, has tried to figure out why we get up at 3:30am on opening day when, as he observes, we could "sleep in and just stand on the deck and drop a well-placed cinder block!"


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## OilnH2O

And, just to hammer the nail of that lastcomment one more time...






















This is taken from the deck in the aforementioned post -- I know many of you like to look at the background of every picture posted!



So... before you scroll down, look carefully!






















Now, George... this is no TEXAS deer! And NOW you can understand my son's comment!


(Off to Illinois for the next two weeks -- Pete, we will probably blow through Gillette but I'll certainly be thinking of you!)


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## Joanie

He's this year's fawn, right?


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## grapeman

They seem to be very well behaved there! Who needs lawn ornaments, you have living ones that even pose for you


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## Bert

Maybe he's waitting for the dinner bell..


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## OilnH2O

Okay, Rich -- you asked for an update, and it seems like there is not much happening here -- my hope is that _strong roots_ are growing underground!










I've removed the blue tube stiffeners -- but left the plastic sleeves on, for the moment (pending your feedback). Right now, they help to hold the vines along the cane stiffener for each plant. And, I've left two primary vines for each plant. That is so I have two chances of winter survival. All are covered with deer netting, although a few have still had nips at the tops when the netting has blown askew during a storm or wind.


My question for feedback is, do you think the blue sleeves will add some small wind or temperature insulation over the winter? I know they have no "r-value" but was thinking perhaps they might cut the wind or even offer just a little air pocket if we get covering snow. Any thoughts?


The best looking ones are the Leon Millot -- I had only three Foch (the three to the right) make it through the summer. And, there are two Edelweiss (my $5 specials). And, yes, I know -- my able assistant needs to get out and pull those weeds, but he seems to knowjust when toplay his "honors-AP-pre-calc" card (as in, "Sure, Dad, I'll go weed...butwe've got a quiz inAP chemistry...)


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## grapeman

I don't see that many weeds competing. I would take the blue X off NOW to give the vines as much time to harden off as possible. Don't worry about the vines getting nipped this winter as long as the deer leave you 2 or 3 buds per cane. Being that size, you will need to cut them off almost to the ground. Dont' worry, they gain it back in no time and aren't limited in the future by the thin canes. As long as the vine is alive at the end of the year, chances are really good it will grow well next season.


Wish I could come out there hunting. I would even go a few hundred yards from your house where they aren't so tame







Thanks for posting them- and yes, take the blue X off NOW!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Hi Dave!
Besides what Richard said, you may also want to get some 10-6-6- commercial fertilizer to put down after dormancy late in the fall, or alternatively some rotted manure for organic compost, to get it to leach down by next spring. If you didn't have a soil test done, that could be helpful too at this point before amendments are added, to check soil pH and nutrients. Then there's that coil of wire. Bet you're planning to string that up before your vines start climbing in the spring, right? For deer repellent, try some smelly soap. I cut Irish Spring into quarters and hang a piece next to each vine, and so far the deer here have left me entirely alone. It is worth a try, and cheap!
Bill


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## geocorn

That is one good looking dear. How do you keep him away from your garden?


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## Wade E

Probably by making him dinner!


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## OilnH2O

Well, you can see the buck has lot's of good "buds." 






The big guy isn't the same one as above, but he was sparring with the others just beyond the fence. And there was a fourth -- a 3 point -- just outside the picture to the right. My son took this early Saturday morning, being awakened by the "clacking" of horns.


We really do need an urban hunting season! (And, for those who think that's not a good solution, we also have -- among the dozen or more deer that frequent our neighbor's feeding station -- three does with hanging/broken legs -- the victims of car collisions. And, last year we had two fawns, this year one plus a doe, that were killed on the streets within a couple blocks of our house. We really do have too many deer!)


HEY!



I reviewed this after the post and discovered I just got made a "winemaster!" Better go celebrate! Cheers!





*Edited by: OilnH2O *


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## Wade E

Sounds like a good reason for a glass of wine accompanied by a slab of venison.


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## grapeman

Good grief man, you need deer fencing like you had Fort Knox there! I once saw four 8 and 10 point buck together while mowing, but they weren't sparring in the yard! You may have to put up an electrified perimiter fence, maybe a bunch of razor wire on top!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Yeah, soap is probably for does and fawns. You need 10 year old rubber boots filled with garlics and dog urine to set these guys back...


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## OilnH2O

I take it you speak from experience



-- WAIT -- don't tell me how! -- TMI


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## Waldo

Or a Browning 12 Ga Magnum


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## NorthernWinos

A little off topic here.....But today we saw a couple trucks from Michigan headed east to their homeland with trailers loaded with 4 wheelers, misc camping gear, freezers and some huge elk racks...the rack on one trailer was in velvet...a little shaggy but covered in velvet.....have never seen one in velvet that had been harvested this late in the season.....Is that rare????


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## Waldo

Need more info NW. Rare thatit had velvet this lateor rare that you seen it ?


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## OilnH2O

NW --


I'm not sure it is "rare" --certainly unusual -- and more likely that you would not have velvet at this late date. But, there may be later bloomers out there! Maybe these were bow hunters - the bow season is the earliest and has been going for a few weeks now.


The gun season started last week in Wyoming, and it's "backcountry" right now in Montana (has been since the 15th) which means the season is openmostly in designated wilderness areas. To be successful you'd need horses although I know some places you can drive to within a mile or so of the wilderness boundary -- but you couldn't use a four-wheeler, even after you have an animal down. You'd have to get it out somehow -- which is where the horses REALLY come in handy. Which is why I don't "drive TO" since I know however far you walk into the wilderness, that's how far you have to haul that elk out!


But as to velvet, I think it is rare, unusual,but not impossible. By the way, the problem here is urban deer -- I'm sure we'll have to address it sooner rather than later. Right now I've got old CD's hanging from the wires (that coil, Bill, is for the next row next spring!) that flash in the sun.No flash atnight tho... Irish spring works, they say... as does letting my dog out in the yard!


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## NorthernWinos

We were at the only stoplight in Clearwater County when those trucks went through, my honey drove 85MPH to catch up to them to look at the racks in the trailer...we drove along side of them for a while, then they passed us again and then we were at a stoplight in the next town beside them, so got a really good look at that rack...it was for sure in velvet...Around here if you get a deer with that the 'law'takes it away from you....so was wondering about that.


We don't have the luxury of being able to shotdeerout the window like you, maybe once in awhile a herd will run through the yard. We went out and looked at the deer plot today...other than being surrounded with soybeans and corn we plant some oats late...the deer just lick up that luscious grass...in fact 2 were there when we drove up...one had a nice rack. Our season doesn't start till the first sat in Nov...so have a lot of time to wait.


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## grapeman

I'm getting a LOT more deer activity lately since my apples are getting riper and some are dropping in the winds. It's like a deer magnet. The downside is the vines are planed nearby and some of them are just canes now with no leaves. They have broken off a number of the bamboo shoots at the ground so I have been having to put new ones in and tie to the first wire. Our seasons begin in mid-October for muzzleloading, unless they get to be too much of a nuisance. Then the gloves come off early. I really don't mind some damage, I just plant extra. But don't let them get carried away! We also have rye and clover planted a few hundred yards away, so that keeps them somewhat away. *Edited by: appleman *


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## NorthernWinos

Will you have to fence your vineyard in the next year or so????


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## grapeman

If I do fencing, it will only be an electric fence.Pressure is still not that bad and if it gets that way I will deal with it!

http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNhttp://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNhttp://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN


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## OilnH2O

Sunday morning, 33*F, watched the partly sunny sky turn dark in the west, then a 20-minute snow squall left our first snow of the season -- actually LATE for us, I think. While we've had snow above 5000' several times, this is the first for the valley. Can't wait for next spring to see these vines wake up and take off!


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## NorthernWinos

Dread winter....hope it pases quickly and we can all get out and enjoy our vines...in the meantime...enjoy your wines.


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## grapeman

What a nice view you have there. It looks like the vines have lost their summer foliage and are standing naked to the winter. Good luck with the vines and here's hoping they grow really well for you next year. I finished pre-pruning the St. Pepin today to get more cuttings in time to bury them for winter(the ground was frozen down 3 inches tody). I ended up with about 500 of them. I will plant out next spring on some black plastic with drip irrigation and see how well they root. I want to get about an acre of the St. Pepin planted in the next year or so. *Edited by: appleman *


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## OilnH2O

HA! Finally got that pesky critter that's been hangin' around the Missoula Vinyard the last few nights! That deer won't be nippin' those buds any more...






Now he's REALLY HANGIN' !!!





<div align="center">*MERRY CHRISTMAS !

</font></font>*<div align="left">




*</font></font>*


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## grapeman

But....But.....But.....But..... I think that is Blitzen you bagged! EEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKK! That's really funny- and sick man!


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## NorthernWinos

I'm not offended....


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## Wade E

Santa's definitely not gonna be happy with you!!!!!!!!! Me thinks the other 8 reindeer are going to be crapping on your roof




















































!




*Edited by: wade *


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## bilbo-in-maine

And the hummingbird feeder hanging there too? I hope you aren't thinking of them for Christmas dinner!


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## Wade E

Appetizers?





*Edited by: wade *


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## OilnH2O

_*Spring's Getting Closer!









</font></font>**

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## NorthernWinos

Your snow is gone???? WOW!!!! Lucky you...going to be awhile for us...-15*F again tonight....:&gt;(


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## grapeman

That is definitely encouraging for you Dave! It looks like the sun is even showing there. Has it been cold there this winter? I hope your vines faired well this winter. It won't be long and they will be budding out again.


We have had a pretty mild winter again overall. Lake Champlain never froze over this year completely, so the temps are fairly good. There were 30-40 mph south winds last night and the ferries had to shut down. Besides the 10-12 foot waves, it moved ice flows from the south. The lake looked like a giant slushy. Normally the lake can be frozen completely over and the icebreaker ferries can navigate safely, but the ice jams were traveling with such speed it was too dangerous for the ferries to run. Glad I didn't need to cross the lake.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Pretty cool Dave! It is difficult to believe that your thaw is so advanced compared to here. It would be great if you would keep your camera handy and keep us entertained step by step as your vines come back to life - close up shots of bud swell, bud burst, deer scaring tactics



, and such. Around here, there is so much snow down that officials are praying for a slow start to spring in order to avoid serious river flooding. It has been one of those old fashioned New England winters, something that I'm now getting tired of hearing about.


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## OilnH2O

Good idea, Bill!

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching your vinyard grow from timber to today. Even the pictures of the vertical support system in the snow were, as Waldo might say, "Purty, ain't it?"





NW, our snow is pretty much only in the shady spots, although up in the mountains we've got some pretty good coverage -- several feet -- and still great skiing. (Our local ski area is in the far distance, in that picture above, but hard to make out [up in the upper left-hand corner, through the branches] -- their base, maybe a thousand feet higher than us, is still 45" with 84" at the summit)

Our weather has been pretty much "normal" this year. The plots below may be interesting to some (-- the rest may as well check out the latest AAAStinkie posting now!



)

This is the airport observations for December -- and they are usually a few degrees colder/warmer than we are. Note coldest temps dipped to around 6-7* ABOVE zero for December.




For January, we had (as usual) colder temps, but only a few days below zero, with one to minus 6-7* below zero. Here at our house, we never saw anything colder than -2*below, and only for two different nights.




For February, you can see we've dipped into the teens once and the rest mostly the 20's for lows. Of course you can note by the lavender color, we still have cold lows possible, but... Spring is coming! Note, we've already had highs, last week and this, in the 40's!








These graphs can be found at your local weather station -- "KMSO" means our airport, which is where our NWS office is located. Just search on the internet for "national weather service &lt;insert your town&gt;" and the local station should come right up! Then look for their records. Oh, and our deer still have yet to drop their antlers -- and they were right below us this morning! 


*Edited by: OilnH2O *


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## OilnH2O

Four inches of heavy, wet "spring" this morning!!!


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## grapeman

Well that should bring you back to reality! Looks nice though event though it stinks!


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## OilnH2O

Ahhh, _REALITY!



_In this case the biggest problem was how heavy and wet it was! (It couldn't be _swept_ off the driveway!)





But it is _tempered_ by the invoice I received today for 25 Pinot Noir #13 martini clones to be shipped in a few weeks "when I want them" from Inland Desert Nursury in Washington!

Am I considering "reality" by ordering these? Who knows! But, there are several places near this part of Montana that have had some small success with Pinot Noir -- and one that is selling their grapes to a commercial vintner.

It presents me with another "reality" decision too -- I've got room for 14 more vines in my little vinyard. But the price-break at 25 was the same as buying 14 and the shipping is the same regardless, from 1 to 25... so now to just figure when the best date to have them arrive...and what to do with the remainder!


----------



## grapeman

I see a perfectly good 3 rail arbor growing there just begging for some privacy scrrening in summer! The Pinot might not be all that crazy. They grow in NY in the warmer areas- some on Long Island and a few in the Hudson Valley.


We are expecting one of those night white blankets tomoorow through Wed. They are now saying 10-15 inches in the Champlain Valley and all of Vt. It is supposed to begin about 8-10 tomorrow.


----------



## grapeman

How are the Pinot Noir vines doing OilNH20? We would love to see them when you get time!


----------



## OilnH2O

We've had a late spring, but it is going to be like summer here this weekend - supposed to be in the 80's with maybe even 90 Sunday. I've finished weeding and getting the holes for the pinot's ready -- the vines arrived a few days ago. But I'm a little concerned about planting them with such suddenly _hot_ weather -- on the other hand, I don't want to keep them in the box they came in too long either (although they are cool, wet, lots of bedding material still in the roots) . My thoughts are to get them in the ground either late in the evening, where they will cool overnight, or early in the morning when it's in the 40's. Any thoughts about that plan?


----------



## NorthernWinos

How many will you be planting???? Water them well....

You could give them a little shade with fabric, or...what ever you have, straw, buckets...Just something to keep the direct sunlight off of them for a couple days, then when it cools down a bit introduce them to the sunshine.


----------



## grapeman

I assume they are bareroot vines since you say there is bedding in the roots. I would go ahead and plant the vines. They will just come out of dormancy sooner. Give them some water when you plant and they will be fine- you on the other hand may get a bit warm.


----------



## OilnH2O

They arrived with the buds "broke" and are out of dormancy -- and yes, they are bare-root --

Pic's tomorrow!


----------



## NorthernWinos

The buds might dry out in the sun and wind....I just planted some Elderberries that had the buds out and they dried out...hopefully they will bounce back.


----------



## grapeman

With the grapes, unless the leaves are open, they are fine. Usually the primary buds push in the absence of light and you get enlongated shoots. Some of these break off in handling while planting or they may dry up instead of turning green. The secondary buds then take over and grow. 


Bring on the pictures Dave.




NW, I'm not sure on the elderberries what will happen.....


----------



## OilnH2O

NW, as windy as it is, you may be right. We've had a breezy day today! Our humidity was 18 yesterday in the 87-88* range. I "just planted" as Rich suggested. But I also watered so that the heat of the day wouldn't do too much damage.

Here is one of Bilbo's Marachal Foch cuttings from last year. Bill, sad to say, this is one of only three that survived -- only 5 actually rooted.






The white tab halfway up the vine is the label and just below and just above are some buds that are green and coming along. (That's a cane to the right that held last year's grow tube)

The following is a L. Millot -- they are a little ahead of the others -- you can see some nice growth at the bottom -- they looked like the Foch a week ago. Bill, I think this is one of yours too.









And, the next is one of the Pinot Noirs -- they all have well-developed root systems, and the kind of buds Rich was talking about above -- mostly white with some elongated "canes" and they are fragile. One is clearly visible. While most made it, a few got rubbed off during the transplanting -- even just getting the bunch of 25 untangled was a challenge! (But a good one!



)





And, the last pic is one reason why it took so long getting pictures posted. Today was graduation day and daughter Emily is a brand new high school grad -- this is one of about 10,000 pic's we took today, it seems!








I suppose I snuck it in on you all, but I knew you'd let a proud Dad share the joy...


----------



## grapeman

Don't worry about those buds that rubbed off. I find that the ones that have pushed early like that aren't as nice in the end as buds that grow fresh after you receive them. Good luck with them. I hope they all grow and thrive for you there.
Congratulations to you and your daughter. I'm surprised you were able to take time to plant the vines with a graduation to go to.


Your vines from last year should really take off now that they are starting to grow, especially with the nice gravel mulch around them


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Hi Dave!
10,000 pictures - man, you are quick on the shutter. And congratulations on seeing a child pass one of many milestones.
I'm sorry to hear of the high mortality rate of east coast wood, but at the same time it is nice to know that something made it. It's too bad the Foch took it on the chin. Mine are looking pretty good, pushing buds enthusiastically, while the Frontenac are surprisingly slow! I don't know what gives with them yet. All others are near budbreak, but nothing green yet. No, I take that back. One of my own St. Pepin cuttings put in last spring has several leaves out down at ground level - I had pruned it down close.
You enjoy out there!
Bill


----------



## OilnH2O

Down to 37* this morning -- and the picture I took of _snow_ falling around 10 am didn't really show the flakes coming down (so I didn't post it). I think this is why the term "cold-hardy" is used! However, I thought at least you might make out the _new_ snow level on the far mountains -- only about 1000 feet above us. (We are at about 2900 ') 






You'll note the vines are pushing out new growth, but just below the 30" catch-wire -- the two in the middle row (behind the posts in the picture) are _Edelweiss_ on the left, and Bill, one of your _Leon Millot_ cuttings from last year doing fine to the right.... In the picture below, you can see in the center row more of the _L Millot _cuttings that survived. 

Below, in the row on the right, the 3 _Marachal Foch_ survivors are at the far end of the row, with this year's (2 weeks in the ground) _Pinot Noir_ vines doing well (in the foreground). Rich, the other PN are in the 3rd row -- to the left, with 7-8 vines left over planted along the far left fence. We'll see if the PN will survive these Montana conditions!






For those who are observant, you can see the extensive deer netting including the extensions on the cedar posts to prevent the Bambi's from jumping into the vinyard. The mylar reflective tape is to give them a visual reference that something is there during their nocturnal ramblings! I've already mended one hole where something went in...or out!



(For the really observant, that's our sole rhubarb plant at the bottom of the pic! And, that's not rock "mulch"



) 

That's our _June Update!



_


----------



## NorthernWinos

Your vines are coming along nicely.....considering the extreme conditions and the wildllife.

Guess the weather has been odd everywhere....
My sister-in-law on Vancouver Island B.C says it has been very cold and dreary there.....
Saw snow in the Westerns states on TV yesterday.
Floods in the corn belt.
Appleman and others in the east are sweltering in the heat.
We have been cooler than usual in the upper midwest.

Guess no matter what our complaints....someone always seems worse off.


----------



## grapeman

Thanks for the post update Dave. I can't wait to see the progress with in July. I had typed in a nice long reply, but I temporarily lost the connection and lost my reply.


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Thanks for your pics Dave! I'll bet that in a week you will be inclined to post again because you will be sweltering instead of chilly (hopefully not even colder). Are you thinking of spraying for disease control, or is it not a real concern in your dry climate?


----------



## OilnH2O

Thanks, NW, Appleman and Bilbo!





Yes, "weather" is a constant, isn't it? (Constantly changing!)

I couldn't wait a week, Bill. About the time you were posting this morning, we were getting more snow -- no accumulation at our level, but -- _literally_ -- two blocks up the street, the ground was white!

The snow can't be clearly seen here -- as much rain as with the flakes coming down... But, you can see accumulation on the top of the posts, and there is some in the grass -- in fact those are my footsteps to insure the little darlin's were still above freezing! (It was 34.5*)





Here is a closer look, with the streaks of snow clouding the picture -- my automatic digital just couldn't "stop the action" to actually show the flakes.





I think I'll dust with some sulfur -- but just guessing at this point. The French American hybrids you've given me, Bill, and some of the ones from the local vinyard (Ten Spoons) have some resistance. But, the Pinot Noirs were bare root and from cuttings, I'm sure -- no graft union. They are a Martini clone from Washington State, but I have no idea what resistance they might have. I'll have to visit with the Ten Spoons folks and maybe even do some research to figure out the best strategy. But ain't it fun???




I DO think that there will be a world of difference in the next few weeks. It is supposed to be in the upper 70's by the weekend, with 80's early next week. THAT will push the growth! Now I'll have to do a little work on removing some of the bushy growth pushing up from the bottom of some of the plants. In fact, if any of you have some suggestions in that regard, I'm open to them -- most pruning info is about dormant pruning for older, established plants -- not those brand new, and... even some from last year are pushing from ground level, although most are coming from the "trunk" left over from last year.





Dave


----------



## grapeman

Dave if you do them when the shoots are still young, say 6-12 inches, they just break out of their sockets and then don't grow back. If you cut them off, they grow back next year from buds, sometimes even this year. If done while real young, like raised buds to budburst- you just take a leather glove on your hand and run it up and down the vine to clean the trunk of growth. Have fun. Try something new out and if it works well, keep doing it, if not, learn from it and don't repeat. Have fun!


By the way, you really should keep the snow- we had enough earlier to last the year out!


----------



## OilnH2O

That is what I've been doing as part of the "training" of the new vines -- and trying to keep only two "trunks" for their first year. As for the snow, it looks pretty around the hills -- in the SUN we have today!





And, we added to the snowpack substantially, which will help later during the fire season.


----------



## Joanie

They're baaaaack!! Those pesky Japanese beetles have returned! I just got done spraying but like last year, I'm thinking that it won't do me a whole lot of good!





Appleman, do they go after apple trees? If so, do you spray or even worry about them?


----------



## grapeman

You keep those beetles there Joan! I actually saw two on Saturday, but haven't seen any more yet. Fingers Crossed. The apple trees get sprayed on a routine so I generally don't have any on them.


----------



## Joanie

What are you spraying on your apples that keeps them off?


----------



## grapeman

Joan said:


> What are you spraying on your apples that keeps them off?




Sometimes I use Sevin(Carbaryl 4L) and sometimes I use Imidan(Restricted use insecticide requiring a Pesticide Applicator License). I'm not even sure if Japanese Beetles feed on apple trees- I have never seen them there- they are too busy eating grapes next to the apples. I generally don't use an insecticide after August first since harvest begins about September first.


----------



## OilnH2O

NW and Appleman, I sure wish I had some of that wild, rangy growth!

My vines are acting this year just like first year vines -- here is a picture of one part of the vinyard from my deck, showing the extensions on the fence posts I put up to hang netting. The whole vinyard (about 12x50') has been surrounded by deer netting since the snow melted. If you look close, you can make it out against the lighter colored rails.






If you're wondering where the vines are -- you'll have to look real close! And, if you already haven't seen them, this is why I have 9 out of 36 vines with mostly stems and only a leaf or two here and there!






But, that's what happens when the "mower" doesn't quite get the netting fastened down after mowing/trimming!



It only takes one lapse and one night!

Here is the other part of the "vinyard" ( -- I can call it that because it _was_ part of the yard!)



The foreground is a couple of this year's _Pinot Noir_ that were part of 25 bare-root vines planted. The one's on the right are second-year cuttings from Bill's _Marachal Foch_. The best are the second row: _Leon Millot_ 






And the third row, which can't be seen, are interspersed between my wife's iris'. And Bill, I took your advice and planted about 9 of the remaining PN against the back fence -- it was either that or try to give 'em away. We'll see what happens with them!


----------



## grapeman

Nice lawn ornaments Dave! I spotted those first thing I looked at the picture. They are easier to see than the grapes in that first picture! I hope some day that the vines can get ahead of those grazers! Best of luck Dave.


----------



## Waldo

I would have them suckers a smoking on my grill Oil while I sat there and watched my grapes a growing


----------



## AlFulchino

cool that you have something like iris's in between the rows to make use of the space....last year i let my wife plant 250 garlic bulbs ( some are the elephant type) inbetweeb the vines in one row.....it has worked out very well and many of the sprays i use are suitable for the garlic


----------



## OilnH2O

Al, the difference is that I _invaded_ my wife's Iris' with the vines!






BUT, she still loves me so it's all right!


----------



## OilnH2O

I was going through pictures today and found this -- the bundle of 25
pinot noir vines that came last May. I had taken the picture, meaning to post
it when I was updating at that time. But I forgot! But the memories of opening up that _bundle of joy_ came back and I had to share it with you. I had only room for 16 of them (but 25 vines were cheaper!



) but at Appleman's suggestion I _found room_
for the others. They are the ones now among the iris'. All are doing
well -- most up to or on the first catch wire. I'll send updated pic's
when I can.


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Hi Dave,
Always good to hear good news in the grape growing game!





Pinot Noir in Montana - it seems so unusual. Will you put them on the ground during the winter as NW does with some of hers?

Keep up the good work.
Bill


----------



## Waldo

I would like to try some Shiraz...wonder how they would do in Arkansas


----------



## OilnH2O

Gee, Waldo, why not? I'm not sure about Syrah (or Shiraz) in Arkansas. It seems like the issues have to do with disease and growing conditions as much as anything -- and _you_ certainly know about growing just about anything there!





One reason I picked the Pinot Noir was that several small vinyards have had success with it near here -- but they are along the lake in the Flathead Valley. They are likely moderated by the lake effect just enough to make it different from here but we have mild termperatures in this part of Montana, so we'll see.





The other reason was the price -- I was looking to fill in with something -- about a dozen vines -- Billbo sent me some cuttings along with some I got locally from Ten Spoons vineyards -- Leon Millot and Marachal Foch were the ones that rooted, and I added a couple Edelweiss. The price break for the PN (Martini clones) was at 25 vines ($2 each) and the shipping/packing was the same whether it was 5, 10 or 25 -- so I figure I've got them for just over $3 a vine, which isn't bad, especially if they work out!


----------



## OilnH2O

*Fall Pruning Questions!

Okay -- on a couple of threads we talked about "prune in the fall?" or "prune in the spring?"

I need further input! 





It might be hard to see, but what was a whole year of growth was "pruned" by one of our local vermin in the last two nights. Here is a different view.





You can see there are still some leaves on the top wire (at about 5 1/2 feet) and a few lower to the ground (I guess Bambi didn't want to stretch too far up OR down!



)





These are Bilbo's Marachal Foch that were doing so well! The Millot took it the most, because they had put on tremendous growth this year. There is still enough growth on all, and so far, they left the Pinot Noir alone.

We first thought they had nudged open and squeezed through the gate. But I now think they are jumping over the deer netting at a point where it is about 7' high! Oh, and Rich, they walked right by (and nibbled next to) the Irish Spring!

Given they nipped mainly tendrils and leaves, what do you think the damage is? And, will it really affect next year? (Other than a new and higher fence!)










</font>*</font>


----------



## grapeman

They should be alright, but may have a bit more winter damage than you would like. Why? Because I expect those vines to push new leaves this fall, which will be a net loss of reserves in the roots. With any luck, the new growth will get large enough to replace spent reserves before a freeze this fall. When we talk about pruning in the fall, it is after dormancy sets in. Good luck/ Oh and you better set up some really big rat traps. LOL


----------



## NorthernWinos

That's some serious pruning.....





Some friends have been spraying their flowers with a product called Deer and Rabbit Repellent...It comes in a 1 gallon jug with a spray handle on it....It smells bad enough to turn your stomach....Much urine and rotten eggs.....they say it works.

Another friend says he puts eggs in water in his pump sprayer, shakes it up and that works...**** Be sure to put the egg in a little bowl and take out that tiny little egg membrane first...it will plug your sprayer.

Hope deer season is near....





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## OilnH2O

Cold, down to 10 or more below zero last week; now this week, it is 47 degrees and everything is melting! I'd take pictures but I waited too long for the fresh snow, now there are patches of green grass poking through! Global warming???


----------



## NorthernWinos

47°F ABOVE zero would be really nice right now....
We have gotten down to -24°F a couple times....nasty. It can get worse than that around here. 
It hasn't thawed around here for quite some time...
Getting Winter Weary....


----------



## OilnH2O

NW, next time your TV wx person shows you that Arctic air mass coming down from our friends to the north, look at the western edge. Last week we were in it; this week it's to the east (in Eastern Montana/NoDak) and we've got the moderating influence of the Pacific storms -- more moisture but warmer. 

But don't worry... like Ahnold, the Alberta Clipper "will be back!"


----------



## NorthernWinos

When I lived in Alberta we had Chinooks or frigid air in the winters...

Now, I live here and get Alberta Clippers...never a good air mass...Fast moving cold/wind/snow.

Or, we get winds from the East...that never bring anything good...Summer or winter....A storm is brewing.


----------



## OilnH2O

Time to think about PRUNING! These are pictures of the last of the snow, and if you look hard, you can see that I have pruning of 25 one-year old vines (pinot noir) similar to this one. Note the multiple stems from last summer's growth. Many are like that.






Two year old vines -- these are Leon Millot with P. Noir by the back fence. This is second year growth and they all did the best (thanks Bill!) Note several have had a couple secondary sprouts from the ground that I let grow on the theory that I'll pick the best one.... (don't know if that's best, but it's what happened!



)






The is more Leon and Mar. Foch on the right and in back. Hard to see in the sun but the Foch was not as vigorous as the Millot.






These were all taken March 6. Little snow left - a few spots where it was piled deep from shoveling -- it'll be gone by the weekend since today was 52* even though the lows are in the 20's. Oh, and the Squala hatch and March browns will begin in the next week! Life's good in the Last Best Place!


----------



## AlFulchino

great pics thansk for sharing...we start some pruning this week God willing
your wood is looking good!


----------



## grapeman

So your four leggedhelpers hadn't finished pruning your vines yet for you this winter? 







I hope they give you some crop this year then the real fun and rewards begin!


----------



## OilnH2O

Well, I have to say that it took almost 3 hours to prune 38 vines!





Never has a vine had such a hard look before the decision to squeeze those pruning shears! There were several plants with two strong trunks and I just didn't have the heart to cut one. I think I'll have one trunk go to a low wire and the other a higher wire (but am always happy to hear opinions!



)

And, I'm happy to say that every vine -- including the Pinot Noirs planted last year -- survived the winter. I'm saying that because every vine produced green cuts. Some of the buds I rubbed off on the trunks were soft and green inside too -- I think that's a good sign that bud-break is just around the corner... No? 

Then, when I was finished I had so many good cuttings that I couldn't help myself: I root-toned the ends and stuck them in some perlite/potting soil/sand mix -- just to see what happens!





(_For those who want a quick recap without reviewing the whole thread: Cuttings started in pots on the deck: spring 2006. A crop of "sticks" by mid-summer! Marachal Foch and Leon Millot cuttings graciously provided by Bilbo and rooted and planted in spring 2007. At the end of that summer, a local hardware store garden shop had several Edelweiss on sale in the pots -- (pretty cheap as I recall without looking back in the thread). In 2008 I had a total of 3 Foch and 8 L. Millot that survived, plus two Edelweiss. There is Pinot Noir grown north of us near Flathead Lake so I ordered from Inland Desert nursury in Washington State, 25 Pinot bare-root plants. They went in the ground last spring.)_


----------



## AlFulchino

you are on your way....!


----------



## grapeman

Great Job Dave. It is always so tempting when you prune the vines to keep a bunch of cuttings. I always do it. I pruned today and kept a bunch of Marquette for rooting.


Be sure to keep us filled in as the season develops!


----------



## OilnH2O

Ahhhh.... _Grazie_ Al! 

And yes, we'll keep you "posted" since that's what we'll have to do in the coming weeks to take care of the Bambies!


----------



## JTodd

They're looking wonerful! 


I just finished my spring pruning, staking and trellissing on my second year vines. On the advice of the nurseryman that I got them from, I have been planning to double trunk my vines. This gives me insurance against winter kill as well.


Keep up the good work,
John


----------



## OilnH2O

(clear and 56* today -- but cold nights right around freezing. Two inches of snow last Friday though, and lows to 19* - ouch!)






Well, today, I too have a little "oozing" at the site of pruning that took place a couple weeks ago -- but mostly at the larger cuts. Nothing _PINK_ though -- seems all clear -- isn't that what it is supposed to look like?

And, I don't have bud-break, but I think I'm getting _bud-fuzz_ -- is that what the FBI calls a clue to what's coming?





I'd post a picture but it wouldn't show much....


----------



## grapeman

Is it spring yet? Is it spring yet......? Is it spring yet.......................................................?????


All vines will drip a bit after pruning before they heal. They should be fine.


----------



## OilnH2O

appleman said:


> Is it spring yet? Is it spring yet......? Is it spring yet.......................................................?????
> 
> 
> All vines will drip a bit after pruning before they heal. They should be fine.



Ahhh... THAT's the question EVERYONE is asking!


----------



## Waldo

It's definatelyspring here as evidenced by these pictures I recently took around my place. I sure love this time of year


----------



## OilnH2O

Ah, Waldo!

I do miss the dogwoods!


----------



## Waldo

They are especiallygeorgeous this year


----------



## NorthernWinos

Thanks Waldo....Think all us Northerners needed that.

I did wake up to happy birds today....and, the longer days are inspiring.


----------



## grapeman

I drove home this afternoon from getting measurements through a snowstorm! When I left the house, the snow was building up in the corner of the garage. The wind was blowing 30 mph and the temps were into the low 30's! I appreciate the nice warm pictures of flowers!


----------



## jobe05

We had 3 jobs to do in southern Virginia today......... we worked in the snow all day long.......... @ days ago it was 78 degrees here.

Thursday I'll be planting the garden.......... welcome to the south.


----------



## OilnH2O

Waldo, love the Southern dogwoods -- the ones in the Sierra are bigger, but not as dense and certainly (imo) aren't as visually stunning in a good year. I take it, it's a "good year!"





As far as "spring" -- I think we've got it. Although last Saturday we had 2 inches of new snow! But since, days in the 60's with one at 71 -- and I don't know if I have "bud-break" but I do have bud "fuzz." As I mentioned earlier, there is bud swelling with a whitish fuzz and it's green and brown on the stems where I've rubbed them off. On several of the Foch and Millot there is weeping at the ends of cordons and tips of spurs that were pruned several weeks ago. The Pinot Noir looks as if it is a little behind, but then they are second year -- but they, too, have white "bud fuzz" or bud swelling. So, it's soon! (Better get crackin' on that dern fence! )


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

The cherry tree buds are swelling in Portland, but just down the coast where I live things are still pretty dormant. We are always about two weeks behind the city in the onset of warmer weather (of course Portland gets worse fog.) The vines are oozing at pruning cuts but no signs of bud swell yet. Spring is here though. The snow is gone from all but the deepest spots, crocuses have been blooming for two weeks and daffodils are six inches high, and we are hitting mid-fifties half the time during the day. Ah, and don't forget the mud...


----------



## OilnH2O

We had "spring" for 3 days last weekend when it got to the 70's with one day hitting 80* for an hour or two. That's according to neighbors since we were with my Able Assistant at college orientation! (We may have missed it!)

The last few days have seen rain and 50's with overnight lows reminding us that in Montana it can freeze whenever it wants! Down into the low 30's the last two nights. The buds continue to swell and get bigger - the edelweiss are farthest along with close inspection showing some larger buds with lines indicating the formation of leaves! Weeping of pruning cuts has stopped. But, SURPRISE! I went to check on the cuttings I had stuck in an old pot in the utility room with a perlight/sand/potting soil mix. When I had pruned them, the cuttings "looked too good" and I hesitated to throw them away, and, as the French say, _"VOILA!"_ The two cuttings with leaves are Marachal Foch. The others are Edelweiss and and Pinot Noir.


----------



## grapeman

Don't you love spring? After a week gradually climbing to the low 60's here, currently i at about 2:00 t is 84 on one thermometer in the deep shade and 88.5 on the other in regular shade. Tonight it is cooling down with a high tomorrow of 59. Then 85 on Monday 70 on Tuesday and back to 60 on Wed. Yo have to love it!


----------



## OilnH2O

Just remember, weather moves from West to East... just you wait!


----------



## NorthernWinos

It was 80°F here on Thursday...In the early evening the wind shifted to the north and the winds became cold...

It was in the 30's yesterday AM....temp really dropped fast....cold rain.

Today, sunny and bright, but chilly north wind...More rain tomorrow, maybe even snow flakes...

So much for the weather report...


----------



## OilnH2O

I hear you, NW! Our wx report this morning said we were in for a "...complex and winter-like" system over the next few days that would bring lows in the 30's, highs in the 40's and chance of rain, snow or passing showers of either one!" 

Springtime in the Rockies!


----------



## grapeman

Sounds like you had your spring this past winter and now are in for winter.


----------



## fivebk

Friday was a beautiful day here in NW Missouri, high of 90 . Then came severe thunderstorms, then Sat. we had rain and a high of 48.


----------



## grapeman

88 Friday, Saturday dropped from 65-49 through the day, 90 right now and 75 tomorrow, 60 Wed. Everybody is dressing in layers. It started the day today at 45! Dress warm to start and you get down to your Joe Boxers by late in the day!


----------



## OilnH2O

appleman said:


> Sounds like you had your spring this past winter and now are in for winter.



Appleman, I think you need to change your screen name to Weatherman!





Yesterday -- buds swelling nicely! Nice sun but never got above 48*








Then, TODAY! Morning coffee in hand, open the drapes!





This is the SECOND cup! Right now, as I post this we have a half-inch accumulation, 35* Spring time in the Rockies!


----------



## grapeman

OilnH2O said:


> Appleman, I think you need to change your screen name to Weatherman!




























My emotions are as confused as my identity - appleman, grapeman, weatherman!






That weather stinks!


----------



## OilnH2O

and Lumberjack!


----------



## OilnH2O

*Deer Wars... (continued)*

My little backyard vineyard fared so-so this winter. A late (May) spring cold snap of two nights of 22* hit buds, especially on Pinot Noir. L. Millot and M. Foch did okay, but one of my two Edelweiss got knocked back. Increased height of my deer fence was successful until first, deer pushed through a tear between posts, and second, when that tear was repaired, they jumped over a low spot - so I raised the fence a few feet higher. If I wasn't in city limits I would have more options!





Here is a Leon Millot that was missed by the deer showing growth so far this season.





This is a L.M. that was hit by the deer - lots of little grape clusters coming, but no shade until the new leaves get established.





This is a Pinot that got buds nipped by frost -- new growth up from the roots is already up to the first catch wire.





And last is proof deer like Pinot too -- several of the PN's that had new growth were also browsed -- oh, to be out of city limits!


----------



## ASAI

RE: Deer Wars
Have you considered a accidental dischargewhile cleaning a weapon you thought was cleared?


----------



## grapeman

Cross-bow? 


Your poor vines sure have a tough time of it. I hope you can get them under control eventually so the poor grapes have a chance to provide food for the birds too! And then maybe some day you can make a bottle or two of wine.


----------



## OilnH2O

ASAI said:


> RE: Deer Wars
> Have you considered a accidental dischargewhile cleaning a weapon you thought was cleared?



Oh, believe me -- there are many options for something like that! Model 70, son's Model 7, even my old Daisy BB gun! After all, this IS Montana. But within city limits even an occasional fire-cracker is illegal. I'm crossing my fingers that the current "passive defense" set-up might work.


----------



## OilnH2O

Update on the Poor Vines Vinyard!

Okay -- my Missoula backyard vinyard -- but the talk of versaison, rain, deer and deer-defense got me to take some pictures and give an update. 

First rule of Sun Szu, Clauswitz, et.al.= Know your enemy!









(These seem small - but I can't seem to "resize" to anything bigger without it being over 150kb -- sorry)

The bottom, lighter green, is new growth after "pruning" by the mates to those guys above....





Here are some of the few grape clusters remaining. Note the Irish Spring sliver nearby, hanging from above!



BTW, the deer did not graze the grape clusters, but after they grazed, no new clusters developed. The grapes are just barely starting to turn a tinge of purple (these are L. Millot).





On the left is second year growth of Pinot Noir vines that bare-root planted last year. While they survived the winter, there was about 10% winter kill, and at least half came up from the roots -- the stems died. On the right are the high growth of Edelweiss and L. Millot that were above the "graze line" with new growth below. Interestingly, the Edelweiss have great growth (3rd year) but not one grape cluster... hmmm!





The hanging plastic grocery bags are part of the deer-defense... although, I must say that after this year, there will be new (additional) posts/wire to at least 8 feet tall. Having a fence down low and deer netting above doesn't really keep out the deer. The best "defense" will have to be a new fence!


----------



## grapeman

I wish I could say the pictures looked great- but I can barely see them. They are like an inch high! Did you try Microsoft Picture Resizer tool? You can get most 800x600 pictures to download and all 640x480. Some 1024x768 are even small enough. 


Here's to hoping you win the war with the deer. This evening I drove down to the farm and up in the fields. I was turning around at the pumpkin field my brother kayacked across last week after the 3 inch rain. There was a big fat doe standing their chewing her cud like a cow watching me. She even stopped and scratched an itch from a bug biting. She stomped a few times, but didn't really care if I was there or not. I will need to take a picture of my second nursery location. The grapes look like stubby stick clusters. They have been grazed so many times that they have about a dozen bare shoots with no leaves! Hint: it is right in front of my one deer stand which used to be an old hay barn. One of these autum days I will be sitting in there, but I won't let the deer know which day!


----------



## OilnH2O

Rich, I have to use a resizer for Mac -- and for some reason, anything larger than 400x300 (the size above) is over the 150 kb limit -- and that's at 72 dpi... I'll try something different...


----------



## OilnH2O

Brix at 24.8 -- Beautiful "fall" days in Montana - 

Monday high supposed to be about 81*, low 42; Tuesday high 64, low 37! Wednesday high 42*!!! Low 30, chance of rain/snow!!! 

Time to pick??!! (That's Marachal Foch in the background)


----------



## grapeman

At least you are getting a 80 degree day. We haven't seen one of those in weeks now, and only 2 - 90 degree days all year and one of them was in April!


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Wow Dave, don't you have birds or bees (wasps) out there? Those clusters sure are pretty, and your Brix is looking good. I think we don't want to let it get too high for Foch, something about increasing the off flavors that lie hidden. Also, don't let the must sit on the skins for very long. Last year I let it go for 32 hours and last week sampled what I had. There was a definite "bacon" quality at the back of the nose, but it almost disappeared by the second day after the bottle was opened. This year I will let it cold soak for 24 hours as the next step in experimenting. Good luck with yours!
Bill


----------



## OilnH2O

Birds and wasps, both, Bill. But I try to keep the wasps away with other attractants. BUT the deer were the worst, and actually most of the vines do not look like this one -- but, as in baseball, there's always NEXT year! 
(Thanks for the tip about the skins...) They were picked this morning, btw...


----------



## AlFulchino

looking great!


----------



## OilnH2O

Al Fulchino said:


> looking great!



Thanks, Al -- now, really, YOURS are looking _great!_ But, I appreciate it - but wait until NEXT year!





Here's a question for feedback. After picking the grapes, I found a lot of earwigs in the bin with them. Then, with my M1-A1 destemmer (right thumb and index finger!) as I separated the grapes from the stems, almost every cluster had one to five earwigs. 





I guess I am surprised - while I've helped harvest and seen clusters go into the destemmer, I'd not thought about bugs like this -- at least, not several in every cluster! Or, do you think this is either a Montana thing... or because of this.... in several clusters I found what I thought was some sort of fungus or mold... sorry for the lack of clarity, but I think you can see the white on the end...





Then, after several instances, and seeing several small spiders drop out of the clusters, I think that in actuality what these are, are spider nests -- I didn't pull them apart, and while some of them looked like they were on the grapes themselves, if you pulled the grape away, it did leave the material behind. Like this...





As you can see, the material stayed behind when the grapes were pulled away. Does that sound like it's spiders, not mold or fungus? I thought maybe the earwigs were after the spiders, but after a little internet research, find they feed on lots of things..._including grapes!_





By the way, the Foch brix was 25 to 26.2; the Millot I can't recall, and the Pinot Noir (which was only a handful of clusters -- 2nd year vines) was 19 to 21.8. 

So, that's the end of MY year! - Oh, wait -- no it's not! I've got the holes to dig for the new 10-foot fence posts that will be going in this fall so they can settle all winter and be ready for the new deer fence next spring!





Dave


----------



## grapeman

Yumm-earwig wine! Just think that if you used a normal destemmer, those babies would be going into the wine with the grapes. 


Hopefully you can get ahead of the deer next year and get a nice crop.


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## AlFulchino

also a little mold on the grapes will be natural...by the time you get an average brix level amongst all the grapes of one variety that you are happy with a lot of things occur w the grapes that are a bit ahead of the average clusters....bees can get in and puncture the grape skin to get at the juice and that leaves the inside vulnerable to mold spores...you cant avoid all of it..it just is

and the little green berries are unpollinated or in some cases just an under-ripe little thing

great brix on that foch! i will be making some wine w my foch this year as well but this may be the last year i keep it depending on how it survives the winter...had a lot of winter damage on it last yr


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## bilbo-in-maine

Earwigs don't seem to be a Montana thing, since I have them here also - first year I've noticed them actually, silly buggers. I haven't been finding fruit that's insect damaged - yet. In a way it is good to have such a small crop that you can afford to hand pick every grape off the clusters, eh?


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## OilnH2O

bilbo-in-maine said:


> In a way it is good to have such a small crop that you can afford to hand pick every grape off the clusters, eh?



Amen, Bill -- that's REALLY looking at the bright side!


----------



## OilnH2O

_*There's Always Hope!*_

Out of the blue, yesterday afternoon, a low-overcast day in the 40's of spitting showers and snow showers up high, Andy Sponseller, the owner of Ten Spoons http://www.tenspoon.com/index.html calls and asks if I'd "be interested" in some grapes he had not picked. Now, what would _YOU_ say???





So, my daughter, home from college on fall break, and I went out "to play..."





It was fun!





AND... _fruitful !!!_





About 90+ pounds of mostly Marachal Foch -- with maybe 10 percent Millot.

Ten Spoons is an "organic" vinyard -- and this area had been "oversprayed" by a neighbor trying to control weeds. It is now in it's third year since that incident; hence, why Andy didn't/couldn't use them. Now, to get to work on those guys! (Takeaway? Visit your local vinyard and make friends!



)


----------



## OilnH2O

Spent the afternoon getting the juice off the skins -- had used a
food-grade "brute" style 32 gallon "garbage can" - no pictures,
though. About 100 lbs. of grapes yielded about 9 gallons of juice.
Bubbling nicely! (Marachal Foch)















(Rich, I tried to get off the skins 24 hours after pitching the yeast
-- these spent about 48 hours on the skins with yeast at about 50* -
there was no activity after the first day. In the garage, the must was
at 43-45* overnight.)


----------



## OilnH2O

I love Montana!

Days have been above freezing; nights below freezing since Valentines Day. (Remember when it was St. Valentine's Day?



)

So, a couple afternoons this week and the pruning is done! Can't really tell from the photos, but I ended up with lots of debris on the ground. Almost all the cuttings showed green under the outside layer, so... Spring's around the corner!


----------



## grapeman

Your grass looks almost green there. I hope my pruning goes as quick!


----------



## OilnH2O

Wonderful spring so far -- but dry. We had little snow over the winter and while that won't make any difference here because of the ability to irrigate it could bode ill for agriculture during the summer if we don't get spring rains. 

My biggest concern is the buds... they are starting to show a little life -- lots of white fuzz appearing. Leon Millot is below, and Pinot Noir the second picture. What we don't need is bud break and then a late freeze -- which can happen in these parts! We had that last year... That will not be good!






Pinot below...


----------



## grapeman

Hey Dave it is good to see you again. Yup those are starting to swell a bit, but not a lot yet, which is good. Hope it all goes well this year and you win the battle over those big 4 legged foragers.


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## OilnH2O

Here is a spring up-date from Montana --

Pruning done late February (as above); buds showing a little fuzz in late March (above) and now, on 18 April things could pop any day. Buds are much bigger, and green when rubbed off the main stem. This is a Leon Millot 






And this is an Edelweiss - the shine on the pruned surface is showing oozing of liquid so the vine is powering up!









Grass is getting green and will need mowing this week -- spiders are "ballooning" in that webs are everywhere spring is here. Now, to avoid a late hard frost. We had that last year in early May and it reminds us that, while we may have mild weather in February or March, it can freeze just about anytime!
_
Dave_


----------



## grapeman

Good luck with the vines this year Dave!


Looks like you are just a little behind us here and we have had an early spring.


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## AlFulchino

looking great...i am only at the halfway point in pruning....had a rainy three days...start up again tomorrow and hope to complete in 7-10 days....i hope you and i dont hit a late frost


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## OilnH2O

Al, seems like my buds are at the same point -- about as big as they can get without busting out. This is Marachal Foch... the second is Edelweiss. Both are half again as swollen as last week and I think it will take just a little rain and a warm day -- and they'll POP!











The pinot is a little farther behind, but not much. Days are 60's after 84* last Friday, but nights still in the 40's with upper 30's about every 4th or 5th day.

It would be interesting to see, of all the folks here with vines, just what the range of "bud-break" is across the country!


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## grapeman

Mine are just about that stage Dave. I found a LaCrescent vine planted last year that the leaves had just popped on, but that is the only one.


----------



## AlFulchino

looking great.....i like the thickness you cut back to in that 2nd pic...wood looks good and healthy


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## Waldo

Looking good !!!


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## OilnH2O

We're _so_ close to bud-break -- probably they've technically "broke" but the "leaves" are still tight! (Marachal Foch - one of Bilbo's!)





I'm actually happy though -- this was during a "sun break" today -- we've had strong winds and the temp outside is 38* and on our 10 o'clock news they said that would probably be both our low... and our _high_ for tomorrow!





Last year we had 27* overnight on 4 May and it really knocked down the grape production -- now you know why my reaction to that global warming buzz is "bring 'er on!"


----------



## OilnH2O

_*Oh, MAN!!!*_





Deja' Vu all over again! Last year on this date we had an overnight (as the post above) low of 27* -- and then today we had a fast-moving high come in and now the weather-guru's are saying this for Missoula tonight... ouch! Luckily, the buds look the same as the picture above... if that could be "lucky!"






I think I'm saying my bedtime prayers a little extra special tonight!

</font>


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## grapeman

I hope your early morning lows weren't too low Dave. This year is yet again a roller coaster ride.


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## OilnH2O

It's 26* as I write this -- I turned on the sprinklers at 6am so the neighbors probably think I'm crazy! I guess we'll see!


----------



## OilnH2O

I sure do hope this works!










For those of us "on the margin" and for those who are getting into this backyard vineyard game -- a key point is not _JUST_ what "zone" you are in, but the dates between frosts. We've had a typical spring -- snow is gone by February and doesn't always hang around on the ground all winter. But, we can still get "winter" weather at any time, depending on elevation of course. We're at 2,500' msl and under most of that spring/fall snow-line (we just had snow last Thursday, but the snowline was above us). But we can still get killing frosts in May and September. As I've posted in this thread before, last May on this same date we had a similar overnight low, and it really hurt my production as well as Ten Spoons across town -- and he has 15 acres in production. So, there is a lot to this, but it's still fun!




(But now I know a little of what those orange growers feel!



)


----------



## OilnH2O

I know I like pictures - so for my Southern Bud's (and everyone else too!) -- here is what it's like when they say, "Springtime in the Rockies!"








This is a Marachal Foch





And a Pinot Noir, three-year old vine











Almost looks pretty... in a perverse sorta way!


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## AlFulchino

holy cow...how did these fare?

we may get in the low 30's sun night into monday and then also into tuesday...between the vines and the annuals and tropicals we have outside ( w no room in the greenhouses) we could be in serious trouble


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## ibglowin

Thats going to be me in a few years Dave! I am at 6400ft and we have had 3" of snow on Mothers Day a few years back.....





Keep us posted on how the ice coating worked out!


----------



## xanxer82

I think I'm going to stay in MD or go further south. Looks too cold where most of you guys are. haha.


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## OilnH2O

Over the weekend and some upper 70's and even low 80's temps plus sun finally caused all those buds to pop and now there are little green leaves! But, a few vines are still stuck and I'm wondering about them. We had a "cold snap" back in October and I'm wondering if that damaged some of the vines. One edelweiss is not looking good at all, with no visible budding. I guess we'll see!

The take-away from this is it is not just the coldest-cold temperatures of deep winter that affect your plants, but the "margins" of frost at the beginning and end of the "season."






(Pic's when I can!)


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## AlFulchino

some varieties are just later than others..i have some at 8-15 inches and others just popping the bud now


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## grapeman

I was at Willsboro today. Some of them like Landot, Vignoles and Cayuga are from budbreak to 2 leaves. Most of the rest are at 3-6 leaves with Marquette farthest advanced, but Frontenac and Frontenac Gris are actually longer at about 6-8 inches. My furthest along are the Frontenac at about 7 leaves and 8-12 inches, but they also suffered the worst frost damage.


It was interesting at Willsboro in that there were actually a few frozen leaves at the highest part of the knoll even though the weather station reported 32 for a low and is only a hundred yards from those few frozen leaves. It was a glorious day with temps in the mid 70's and blue skies this afternoon after mixed clouds and sun this AM. I got the first spray of the season on them today.


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## OilnH2O

Let me sum up the 2010 growing season thusly: 

_After an early October 2009 sustained single-digit freeze devastated the Missoula "Far Views Vinyard" with still-green leaves frozen on stems, spring of 2010 found an apparent 50 percent mortality, and almost 90 percent among the Pinot Noir. Hardiest were the stronger Leon Millot and Marachal Foch. Both Edelweiss looked dead, first one returned, but then failed. Then later, the other, like Lazarus, struggled back with a few leaves. Then the pinot started springing from roots and we'll see this year how many made it through a second winter. Regardless, for those that survive, it will be like starting from scratch -- but they will be stronger!_

_This picture was taken last October (of 2010):







After a hard winter (in the local vernacular, "...the first real winter since the winter of 96...") we are gaining daylight at 3 minutes a day. Our official daylight length is now just over 11 hours and "visible light" is over 12 hours a day. "Spring" is near!

So -- today is the 1st of March -- time to sharpen the shears, go out to the vineyard, check the vines and think about that final pruning before sap begins....
















Ahh... new snow! Maybe we'll wait a few more days! After all, one thing about growing grapes, regardless of the part of the country we live in, is learning *patience!*

_


----------



## ibglowin

Ha!

You are in Montana after all, If it were easy everyone would be doing it!

Freshly fallen snow, always a pretty sight!


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## grapeman

I dunnoh, I think you should be out there pruning! 


Those poor vines of yours are having a heck of a time growing with all that cold. Understandable about the Pinot..................


----------



## Waldo

I agree with appleman....Now get out there andget er done bubba!!!


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## OilnH2O

Well, my weather wasn't as nice as Bob's (62* at his place!) yesterday -- high thirties here -- but the guilty feeling Waldo instilled made me get out and prune! Or, at least start...






And it is great to see that nice _green_ growth inside -- survived a pretty long winter (so far!



)


----------



## OilnH2O

Ahhh... 'tis nice to see those reports of spring we have all been sharing with each other! And, not to be left out, we woke up this morning to find _"it's springtime in the Rockies_" as well!


----------



## grapeman

Ya gotta love it! At least we dodged the bullet Friday. They predicted a foot and we got a dusting. It has been mid 40's since. Feels good!


----------



## dragonmaster42

I had cousins that used to live in your neck of the woods. They used to say there was two seasons in Montana - Winter and August.


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## OilnH2O

Your cousin is right! The other turn on that "two seasons" comment, is "winter and _construction!"



_


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## OilnH2O

Ahhh, spring...

As my Dad always said of this time in Montana, "Such weather!"





(A shower of huge flakes of snow and gropple covered the ground in 20 minutes yesterday! Those streaks you see are the snow!)


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## ibglowin

Send some moisture this way!


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## grapeman

We had two inches yesterday morning here-gone by 10AM. Today hail and two inches of rain. We have about 4 inches for April so far.


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## OilnH2O

I don't want folks to think we've given up out here. It's just that September has been so beautiful I've not wanted to jinx it by mentioning how pleasant it has been. This week that is to change, however, with highs in the 60's but lows still in the 40's. 

But as you'll note below, the _birds_ haven't flown south yet!





Some of Bilbo's Marachal Foch cuttings from several years ago.






A pesky Robin and those yellow-jackets are cutting into the harvest!


----------



## ibglowin

Looks good Dave!


----------



## grapeman

If you want Dave, I will gladly send you over a ton and a half of rain! Nothing pretty out here, except pretty depressing!


How is the brix on the Foch coming?


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Those are gorgeous Dave! Such a change in three years, no? When is the harvest? Sounds like it will be dependent upon temperatures rather than dampness and rain.


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Dave, just wanted to let you know. I jumped the gun by half a year and pulled up a bottle of my 2010 Foch this evening. It was verrrry pleasant, certainly no fruit bomb but completely free of any unpleasant taste characteristics that some people ascribe to Foch. My wife thought it was a Pinot Noir. We were both impressed. With more time in the cellar it should be very enjoyable, so you should have something to look forward to as you work with yours.

I should mention that at fermentation I chose to press not long after the start, at about 17-18 Brix per other Foch makers' recommendations, in order to shorten the amount of time on the skins. I also threw in some tannin, fermented with oak shavings, and used oak cubes for aging along with some Tan-Cor Gran Cru. It definitely works as a stand alone medium bodied red varietal. I also blended 2010 Foch with Frontenac and St. Croix so now I'll have to try those early. I don't know if you made a batch also last year. If so, I'd love to hear about yours. Good luck with this years!


----------



## OilnH2O

Brix is 22 on the Foch, as low as 15 on one of the Millot's and 19 and 21 on the other two. Hunh? Of my Foch vines only three have produced (and only 5 survived that October snap of two years ago - the others are struggling and while 5 years old, you'd never know it). Of the Millot, there are two producing and another 4 or 5 that were knocked down by that cold and working their way back. I've got 6-7 Pinots doing the same (coming back) and planted some new cuttings this year. But, what the heck -- it's MONTANA!

Here is what our 57* fall day looks like today -- after a week of rain we took from Rich last week!


----------



## OilnH2O

Oh, and Bill, I have some Foch/Millot from '09 that is bulk-aging in carboys but it came from Ten-Spoon's left-over vines they let me have. It has only had a little oak chips in with it early but not much else. I guess I'm still on the learning curve, but I'll taste it and let you know if it's doing well.

And, for those who wonder what the day is like, here's a little wider view.


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good Dave!

I don't think we got out of the 40's for the high today....


----------



## grapeman

Nice shot there Dave. We are up into the 70's now and tomorrow knocking on 80.


----------



## rrawhide

Looks great Dave - beautiful view.


especially enjoyable with a nice glass of wine.


rrawhide


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

I guess I forgot all about the cold snap you had Dave, it sounds like it had a permanent impact. What do you do now at harvest, pick all the varieties and ferment together for one crazy batch since there's so few or are you doing them separately? Well, whatever, keep having fun there. I wouldn't be surprised if soon you post a couple of photos with the first snow on the ground... Hopefully no more October snaps!


----------



## OilnH2O

Bill, I only have Foch and Millot grapes for any harvest, so they'll get mixed. I might have 3 gallons but we'll see in the next few days. - the Pinot has all come back up from the roots, so this year at best are as big as your little finger. I have two vines that came back from a pencil-thin vine that survived. Even next year I don't expect much except hopefully some growth since they seem to have strong roots.

Today? Just 48* with low clouds and spitting rain, but I'll bet it's snow up high!


----------



## OilnH2O

Seeing Rich mention "cutting buds" a few days ago on his thread made me curious how my little backyard vineyard is doing. While I "look" at it everyday, it is usually from a window with a cup of coffee. We've had what seems like a mild winter, but looking at these temperature graphs from the Missoula airport it really appears as if we are mostly in the "normal" range. (Temps at the airport are typically 2-3 degrees _colder _in the winter_, warmer_ in the summer from where I am located.)





The green range is the normal, with pink and lavender the ranges above/below normal to the record observations. The top of the green is around 32-33* in January (bottom around 15-18*) but you can see it trends up toward the low 40s* at the end of this month. As I write this it is 40* outside and spitting rain.

While I haven't ventured into the vineyard since before Christmas, Rich's post made me curious what my buds were doing, since it seems we've had a mild winter (you can see from the 3rd of January we've had 13 -- 14 with today -- days that the temperature has been either at or above 40*F. So today I took a look at found some buds appeared to be farther along than at least what I've seen since I started this.

Here is a bud that is showing lots of "fuzziness" and not just from my lousy picture.





Here is another cut Leon Millot bud. Looks nice and green and healthy -- although my concern is that there is lots of winter left here in Montana!





Next is Marachal Foch. I lost many of these in a heavy, deep and long below zero period several years ago but have 4 of the original vines left and a few one-year-olds (from cuttings) planted last summer.





Here is an Edelweiss bud. I've only a couple of these and never got many grapes from either. Any idea what's that wispy stuff on the vine?





And here is one of my larger, three year old Pinot Noir vines -- who knows what these will do this year!





If anyone has any observations, good or bad, about these please let me know. I'm trying to learn just like everyone else. So many of you have great knowledge, experience and observations. If nothing else, this little foray into the vineyard got me excited for Spring!

-- Dave


----------



## ibglowin

You sure know how to get a winemakers blood a pumping!


----------



## grapeman

It is good to see the green in the canes there. I don't have the picture at hand, but we need a bit of a lesson here. For checking the buds, we cut just the bud on a 45 degree angle, not actually cut through the cane and bud. You start pretty shallow on the bud and go a bit deeper with each cut. Use a single edge razor to make the cut. What you have done is showing the bud a little, but ruins the whole cane past where you cut it off. I will try to find some pictures to show the way it is normally done.
It is good to see a lot of buds surviving.
Ok I found a link to one of the pages.http://www.fruit.cornell.edu/grape/pool/winterinjurybuds.html


----------



## OilnH2O

That's a good link, Rich. You are right -- my cuts were right through the middle, about 90* to the "slice" procedure. All the buds I checked yesterday will be on soon-to-be-pruned canes so I was really just seeing "what was going on" as a result of what seems to me to be a mild winter (so far... where's that wood!). It was a spur of the moment decision...



...so those cuts were made with my pruners and after I'd done it, I thought it might be something to share with the group. 

One of the reasons I enjoy what you do, as well as everyone else on this site, is the learning experience of trying to grow some vines in some places where one might not ever choose for a vineyard (like my backyard)! I learn from everyone and enjoy your "trials" especially. For me, it was good to see so many buds surviving... so far!

I must admit, I was a little worried about the green -- because I expected the canes, and the buds to be a little... I don't know... "less" green in "the middle of winter." One bud had a little curl of a leaf that just broke. I didn't have the camera with me, but I couldn't tell if it was something recent, or one of the last buds from last fall that merely froze over the winter. I'd hate to see an early bud-break only to have a late freeze that would knock the vines back. For followers of this thread, it can be May before we see much action here, which is why I was stomping around in the snow yesterday: curiosity! Oh -- it's just after 9am here, raining and 41* -- with a low last night of 37! NOT Montana winter weather!


----------



## OilnH2O

Bud swelling and "fuzziness" on most of the vines today. It's supposed to get to 58* The Pinot Noir is the farthest along, it seems, with the Foch looking no different than a week ago. The Pinot looks like its within a few days of break. I'm leaving on a 10-day trip so will expect some progress when I return (and I'll get pictures then)!


----------



## OilnH2O

This is pretty much how it goes here in Montana! A month ago buds starting looking like they were rarin' to go -- but I know we can get cold snaps into early May. Today, the temp was supposed to get into the low 80s - but it is 84* at 4pm so even warmer than predicted. Buds are beginning to break - you can see the tiny leaves, and I think they will un-fold over the next day. 

Here is the Marachal Foch, then the Leon Millot, the third is an Edelweiss, and last is the Pinot Noir.


----------



## grapeman

It's getting real close! Good luck with the vines this year. I hope it is the year you can get some grapes.


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good! I am just a few days ahead of you looks like!


----------



## OilnH2O

_*Grap**e growing in Montana:*_

BUD BREAK yesterday! 

Rain and thunder today. Forecast for Friday morning? Snow... changing to rain in the afternoon!  Ahhh... the challenge!


----------



## ibglowin

Let the fun begin!


----------



## OilnH2O

Fun? FUN? Ah, yes! 

That "fun" would be waking up this morning, on May 3, to bright sun, tender new baby leaves on the vines... and 30 degrees!


----------



## ibglowin

That is cutting it sorta close my friend! Did you have to protect the vines or are they still closed tighter than a wound up spring?


----------



## grapeman

It's funny how the nicest days lead to the coldest nights. Hope they didn't get burned.


----------



## OilnH2O

Seeing Ibglowin's purple grapes and bird problems made me realize I haven't kept up with keeping this thread bumped up! But, I assure you I have been keeping up with the management of these few vines, "poor" as they may be!

First up, it's starting to look like a real vineyard!
Next, Marachal Foch - and a continuing thank you to Bilbo in Maine!
After that is Leon Millot - looking good...
Then, last is Edelweiss -- only one vine left of these. 
(I realize that I forgot the Pinot -- next post!)


----------



## OilnH2O

And here's the Pinot Noir -- started with 25 of these, have about 7 left... this is the oldest that survived my big freeze of a couple autumns ago, and this is the first big year of production.


----------



## grapeman

Looking good over there Dave. Hope it continues well and you get some great grapes this year.


----------



## ibglowin

Very nice crop you got there this year. Pinot in Montana!

Wishing for a nice long Indian Summer for you so they have time to ripen fully.

Thanks for the update!


----------



## OilnH2O

*What's RIGHT with this picture?*

That's right - NO BIRDS!

The second picture shows a better view.


----------



## grapeman

Alright! I hope you got them on in time to keep all the birds out.


----------



## ibglowin

That little vineyard is starting to look like a small maximum security prison! 

You just need a small guard tower and spotlight Dave!


----------



## OilnH2O

It's funny - the deer netting didn't work. The fencing to six feet didn't work... but once the deer get in, they wreak havoc quickly! So the key is to keep them out.

The plastic extensions to take the fencing for 8 feet look bad, but are an easy fix, and can be taken down during the winter (if I want!) and the high "wire" is just plain ol' sisal twine! 

_Shhhh! The deer haven't discovered that yet!_


----------



## OilnH2O

grapeman said:


> It's funny how the nicest days lead to the coldest nights. Hope they didn't get burned.



Rich wrote this back in May... well, a wonderful, bright, big-sky day with 17% humidity and clear skies means our lows, which have been in the low 40's, _PLUNGE_ tonight, according to the WX guys -- 26* is possible after 3am. Then, around freezing tomorrow night, then up into the 40's for lows for the next 10 days and beautiful Indian summer. Might have to turn on the sprinklers to try to make it through for a few more days!

This is grape-growing in Montana!


----------



## OilnH2O

*"Before" pictures*

Here are some pictures this evening, before the frost... Hopefully, I can get some "after" tomorrow morning!

Leon Millot are both the red; Edelweiss are the white.


----------



## ibglowin

Are you close to harvest Dave? Pics look fantastic!!

Hope it doesn't get as cold as they predict. Time to purchase some of those outdoor propane patio heaters!


----------



## OilnH2O

*"After..."*


Your prayers worked, Mike! (Mine too!)

So... "after." I got up at 3am, turned on the sprinklers and went back to bed. It was 38* and with the low humidity (16%) the info I had said, for grapes to start the sprinklers at 38* and falling, and keep them going until the sun was up and the ice was beginning to melt. BUT, when we got up, the temp was 34 and no ice which meant, no below 32 temps. The next night the same. We've had fires and the smoke came into the valleys with the clear air and inversion, but that held the radiant cooling down as well, so the temperatures didn't drop. I'll do a brix tomorrow, but the grapes are looking real good! And next ten days are more warm days (70s & 80s) and lows in the 40's.

(So, I can save my money on that heater!)


----------



## ibglowin

Congrats Dave! We got down to 38 the other morning. Fall is hear for sure. So glad you will get to harvest these guys after the long Spring/Summer. 

Looking forward to the Chemistry notes as well!


----------



## OilnH2O

...um. Oh yeah. The "chemistry notes." Hmmm. Yep, still there on my phone!


----------



## OilnH2O

Brix - 

Well, for the first time (since it's the first in six years of having enough grapes at this time of year) I've noticed a range of brix readings among different vines. As Rich might say, "This is how you learn!" 

To remind, this little vineyard has a mixture of Marachal Foch, Leon Millot, Pinot Noir, and one remaining Edelweiss~ here are the readings:

Foch - average: 16.8 (high 18)
LM - average: 18.8 (high 21)
PN - average :15.8 (high 20.8)
Edel - 12.4 average with highest reading (all on same vine) of 13.8

All samples together (including throwing in the Edelweiss) just over 16 - see picture below.


----------



## ibglowin

So did you harvest or were these just test samples?


----------



## OilnH2O

Thar be test samples, Matey. (It be talk like a Pirate day, y'know!)

We still have warm days and cool nights - but smoke in the air - so much that we can't open windows because of the smell. A few years ago, Andy at Ten Spoons said his grapes actually had a smoky taste as a result of fires in the area, but we had more ash drop from the smoke, then. Haven't seen any of that this year - the nearest fires are 50 miles south and even further southwest.

Long term, it looks like we have a good week or more of high 70s-low 80s days with nights around low 40s, occasional dipping into the high 30s. The biggest difference I've noticed from past years is that I have plants that are still trying to push out new clusters/flowers and new canes coming from pruned ones. I turned off irrigation about two weeks ago, thinking that was the issue. I'm not worried about enough fall moisture in the ground for overwinter - that will come. I have one pinot that is up against a fence that had the best production this year, but I was unable to get the bird netting all the way around it - and those grapes have been hit by the birds. Right now, I'm more worried about bees (yellow jackets/hornets). But, it's looking good!

By the way, even though I didn't hear from Ron, I went ahead and ordered that Milwaukee instrument - the A/O rig too. 

We'll see... that's how this works, eh?


----------



## ibglowin

Arrrgggg!

You mean Dan (Runningwolf) on the Milwaukee?

I was hoping those were just test samples and you didn't pick that low! LOL


----------



## OilnH2O

Yep - DAN - am I thinking RONningwolf? In Milwaukee -- no, ABOUT the Milwaukee! 
Jeez, between talking like a pirate (although I did enjoy telling the kids that "the ol Wench served up bones for dinner..." - BBQ spareribs!) and thinking about the work I'm not doing while I'm worried about brix and test stuff... I am confused!


----------



## OilnH2O

*Harvest time!*

I have been letting it hang out here -- trying to get as much time on the vines since we've had 70's and 80 degree days, in the 40's at night. "Indian Summer" here in Montana and, if it wasn't for the constant smoke in the air, it would be absolutely delightful. (The smoke from fires, bad cell service, and mosquitoes all keep the riff-raff away, you know!)

We have had close to 60 days without precip here in Zoo Town, but the WX Guy said earlier it was going to "change on Wednesday") and last night, said a cold front was coming in and with it, a _slight_ chance of rain, maybe at most, a trace -- or just a little more. So last night, after dinner, I raised up all the bird netting in anticipation of getting the grapes in, in the morning before it warmed up.

At 5:30am this morning a trip to... well, woke up... and heard the lightest of light rain drops on the skylight -- not much. Since I'd planned to pick today, I thought I can be leisurely, have coffee, read the paper, let what little rain there was drip off the vines, and start clipping a little later. So I rolled over and went back to sleep. BUT, SWMBO, who still works (Aside: even though I am semi-retired -- I heartily recommend this arrangement!) and gets up at 6:30, said "Sweetie... I can see snow on the skylight...." Rats.

But, I got up, put on the coffee and took a look outside. 35* Some light snow on the fence post tops, a little on the railings, and just a bit of white on the gathered-up bird net on the top wire of the rows. "Not even enough to show up in a picture," I thought. Just as I picked up the paper and got my coffee, my wife said, "Look outside." Thinking it was a deer-alert, I asked, "What?"

BIRDS!

Is there NO rest for the laborer in the vineyard?


----------



## ibglowin

Bwahahahahahaha.... 

That will teach you!

That little vineyard is being watched 24/7 by those flying rats. Did you cover back up or harvest?


----------



## OilnH2O

My fingers were freezing -- and SWMBO says, "Smile!" 

Then, "I can't see the grapes!" 

(Yep. The white stuff is the reminder that this is NOT a grape appellation!)


----------



## OilnH2O

*Why we grow pinot noir in montana!*

*"Even a blind pig finds an acorn, now and then..."

*My hands aren't as purty as Rich's but I sure do like these grapes! Big, heavy clusters of Pinot Noir -- wow. (Oh, the Foch and Millot weren't bad, either. Although one Foch vine had lots of still-green grapes -- I'm sure I screwed it up, somehow! BUT, my, what nice Pinot!

The bushel basket will give some idea -- that's some Edelweiss in there as well.

(Must is right at 20 brix)


----------



## grapeman

Two big thumbs up Dave. What a day it sounds like you had. And I think your hands are just as purdy as mine. Bwahaaahhhaaaha !

Love the Pinot.


----------



## OilnH2O

*Chem 101*

Two big thumbs up? That's more than I deserve, Rich - but it does give one a little satisfaction that some payback can eventually find it's way to even the most _obscure_ vineyard! Thank you.

But, I've still got a looong way to go and much to learn. Wow, though - but it's a kick! 

Okay - basics (Thanks, Mike!)

Brix - 20.0
Temp. 9.9* C (or 49.8* F)
pH - 3.37

So... maybe I ought to put this on a different sub-forum, or start a new thread somewhere else... but I need to figure out how much K meta to add - I need about 50ppm for "sterilizing the must" -- but I probably need to figure out what's there first. (Then, there's TA!)

The must is in a 30-gallon food grade "garbage can" -- with all the skins and much of the stems (I didn't finish getting them all out - needed a glass of wine!) When I washed the "can" I rinsed with K-meta and I'm sure there was some residual in the can, in drops on the sides, etc. So that's something to figure out.

What does that can look like? It looks like this!


----------



## ibglowin

You are definitely the ugliest "Lucy" I have ever laid eyes on! 

Congrats on a Pinot harvest in Montana!

As far as a "wipe the slate clean" KMETA dose you need to make up a 10% solution of sorts. 10gm/100ml H20 or 5gm/50ml or 2.5gm/25ml then you add 15ml for 10 gallons of must. Take it down from there if you have less than 10G must after crushing.

I honestly didn't worry about it on my little backyard harvest as I went from harvest to crush in such a short period of time but you may have more than me.

Very happy for you Dave!


----------



## ibglowin

Forgot to say looks like you may need to add some sugar to bump up the ABV a bit.


----------



## OilnH2O

Mike, 

To be honest, I'm thinking about just pitching the yeast tomorrow and seeing what happens. Although I must agree, "chaptalization" has been on my mind! (Cox, Vines>Wines) says sometimes, "...or add none at all and trust to luck." Meaning: the k-meta) Adding the sugar is easy enough - I can figure that easy to bring the brix up.

Part of the problem is that we are leaving for 8 days (Durango) to meet SWMBO's parents for a fall camping trip. That will be time for my junior partner (whose tuition I pay and says he'll stop by each day and punch down) to step in so that our labels that say "Mihalic and Son" actually _MEAN_ something.

Other than a few spiders and at least one earwig, I'm not sure what's in there that is really bad!


----------



## Runningwolf

Dave great pictures and thanks for sharing.

Oh, about the barrel picture. There are about a dozen captions one could come up with for that one.


----------



## OilnH2O

Dan, thanks to you... ("How?" you ask? I bought one of the Milwaukee pH meters that Mike said you had, and said you liked it. It worked slick!)

Mike, I just checked the must's SG -- it's at 1.086 - so according to the table I have (and adjusted for the temp at 49-50* it would be 1.085) it comes out at 11.9 percent alcohol. So... I'm thinking, the more I think about it... to just leave it alone and see what happens? Your thoughts? I'm not married to that decision, so if *anyone* reading this has a good idea, I'm game to listen.

Oh, and Dan, when my wife wanted to take those "crusher" pictures, I asked "Why?" 
"So you can post them on the forums, Sweetie!" 

So, I had warning. But Mike's right = no, I'm no Lucy... Ethel, maybe -- at least my legs! 

(Oh... and there are _more that I could have posted!_)


----------



## ibglowin

I would bump it just a bit, say 12.5-13% but thats just me you could let er ride as they say! 

I didn't see any TA readings. The pH is low due to not being fully ripe but you may or may not have plenty of acid as it drops off as the brix increases usually.


----------



## OilnH2O

I'm going to add some sugar to bump it to about 22 brix - and the TA was color change started at 6th 10-cc was swirled in - noticeably greyer/darker as the 7th milliliter finished. I'm guessing then, 0.65 TA - maybe .7?


----------



## ibglowin

You need to use that new fancy pH meter to do TA, no more guessing of when the endpoint is!


----------



## OilnH2O

*A new Baby in the house!*

"Fancy new pH meter"??? That's old news!

Here's our new baby - all strapped in and on the way home!


----------



## ibglowin

Very nice! What size is she? I just used mine for 450lbs today. Last 4 primaries. Could not have asked for nicer pressing weather!


----------



## grapeman

Looks like maybe a #25 judging by the seat. It is all shiny and purdy! Now press some reds and turn it colors! Tehee


----------



## OilnH2O

It is a 25 -- and will probably be the _right_ size (SWMBO thinks so; thus, it's right -- but I was going to get a 35. But, the shipping is the killer. I ended up with the smaller size, but still paid almost the same price as the 35, un-shipped. It will be good for smaller sizes, and other fruit, sure - but the 35 seemed to be the one that would have worked best for the 40 vines I hope to eventually have producing. But... a 25 is better than none!


----------



## OilnH2O

*It works!*

Pressed and, while the 25 is small, it does the trick (I had to load it twice). I did not press the grapes too much, because as I did, very quickly the juice started to taste bitter. I probably ended up with too much of that bitter juice but was just shy of a 6-gallon carboy. For 93 pounds of grapes, that's a Goldilocks amount! *

So, we'll see what this year's "vintage" does!

* ("just right")


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good Dave. 6 gallons is a nice 1st harvest for sure!


----------



## bellmtbbq

Hi, I've read through the whole thread! Wow! Pretty awesome.

I was wondering if you'd recommend the nursery you bought the Pinot Noir vines from- I already forget their name, Desert Island, you mentioned them way back. I e-mailed them, I was hoping on getting them before Christmas or relatively soon after for a gift. I have thirty Merlot vines growing from seed as we speak to give away with some Sangiovese I'd love to buy from a nursery. Thanks!


----------



## OilnH2O

Sorry I missed this -- Inland Desert is over in Benton, Washington - Tri-Cities area. I spoke with them a few weeks - maybe more - ago, because their website was down. The person I spoke with said it would be back up - but I don't know. I'd call them. I do like the vines and their service. I had to buy -- well -- didn't really "have to" buy -- but I bought 25 which was almost the same as buying the dozen or so I originally wanted. My climate is probably marginal for PN but some grow it in this part of the state - Flathead Lake mostly - but it's my backyard and I thought I'd give it a try. I think all in all, it was around $65-75 for the 25 vines including shipping -- and they were packed great. I'd recommend them!

Dave


----------



## OilnH2O

For all you folks that frequent this part of the forum - could you take a look at a question I posted over on the kit wine section? http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/grigionay-bubbles-wont-die-35133/ 

I'd appreciate your thoughts or knowledge!

Dave


----------



## OilnH2O

*Winter's Over?*

Probably not! I'm sure there's more to come! BUT, it was up to 45* today, sun was shining, and while we had a snow "thunder" shower yesterday, it sure seemed like spring! So, time to prune!

Before and after....


----------



## ibglowin

Looking pretty good there Dave! We hit 60 all week while I was away on travel of course...... Snow storm headed in tonight but its looking like it time to prune down here as well.


----------



## grapeman

Where's the snow Dave? You sure gave those guys a haircut, didn't you? LOL Hard to believe they grow so much after a shearing.


----------



## OilnH2O

grapeman said:


> Where's the snow Dave?



Snow? 
I'm thinking about doubling down on Pinot Noir, Rich! I've always joked about the vines here in Montana, responding with - when people ask me why I'm growing grapes - "I'm trying to get ahead of global warming!" So, while it was 50* here today (upper 40's the last few days) there is no snow at this elevation, and not enough up high. But, the spring rains we'll get will produce snow up high, and I can still count on those freezing temps in late April and the first few days of May to try to get the new buds and leaves. 

But, looking at all those nice PN canes on the ground made me pick up about 15 and they are in the furnace room right now, hopefully getting callused!


----------



## OilnH2O

*A beautiful day here in the "NEXT WINE REGION"*

Bright sun, crisp air, morning coffee, open the newspaper to see this headline, front page, above the fold! Ahhh... my strategy (most recently expressed in the post above!) _is working!_ 

http://missoulian.com/news/local/st...cle_528facb0-a0c3-11e2-b4db-001a4bcf887a.html
*Study: Warming could make Montana wine region*


----------



## ibglowin

Bob looks like we are both perfectly positioned to capitalize on this! Should we wait a few years before we dig up our cold hardy hybrids and plant Cabernet Sauvignon?


----------



## OilnH2O

Mike, I'm doubling down on the Pinot Noir first! A bunch of cuttings from my best "survivors" of the 25 PNs I planted 4-5 years ago are rooting away in the furnace room!


----------



## ibglowin

I hope we don't have to wait the full 40 years they say it will take...... We will both be too old to fully capitalize!

I read just last week the if the whole thing comes true, then the UK will become the new Champagne capitol of the world!


----------



## OilnH2O

*Freeze Warning!*

It's funny... looking back I see that almost every year about this date I make a post about frost... and this day is no different! Luckily, unlike last year when we _already_ had bud break, this year it's a little late... and a good thing - "Freeze Warning" according to the WxMan - down to 25* tonight, and 24* tomorrow night. SO, here on the margin of global warming we, once again, know why it's not so much the mid-WINTER temps that are as problematic as these dips in the spring, and again in the fall! 

What _FUN!_


----------



## OilnH2O

*"such weather!"*

My Dad used to smile when he said that when it would act like _winter_ in the _spring_. And, even before it can get to those low temp's (that I posted about just a little while ago...) we get a snow squall that leaves everything white... just in time for a nice blue-sky evening and a Disney-esque sunset! That means clear skies... and the cold temps forecast earlier. BUT, the snow cover should protect the buds and the flowers... And, as we say in Montana, "...it keeps out the riff-raff! "


----------



## Runningwolf

My sister moved out to Montana a year ago. She said her husband was outside cutting the grass a few days ago and all of a sudden that snow storm just came blowing in.


----------



## ibglowin

Looks like the wine country progression to the North will be a slow one!


----------



## OilnH2O

*Finally - Bud Break!*

Well, it's late - although "late" is relative to my experience of only a few years trying to grow grapes on the margin! But several days of high 70's and low 80's plus day-long bright sun (not to mention Montana's big, blue sky... wait - that's another topic...) have popped out the buds. Lots of swelling and some of these may have "broken" yesterday, but today it's official.
In order - the pictures below are Marachal Foch, Leon Millot, Edelweiss and Pinot Noir


----------



## ibglowin

I still can't believe your growing Pinot Noir in Montana! 

I demand to see a DNA test! 

Here hoping to no more cold fronts this Spring!


----------



## OilnH2O

What a difference a _week_ makes! (I just want no more late season cold snaps)


----------



## OilnH2O

*Update!*

Got the bird netting up just in time last week - a couple of robins were hopping around looking... well, they were just looking, but too close for my liking!

The second picture is of Leon Millot - veraison last week. The Pinot Noir (third pic) are still green, although a few are getting a dab of purple here and there. They are most dependent on these long, hot days in September and even into October. Last picture - not that good I see - is of Marachal Foch - lots of fruit. In fact, I fear I haven't picked enough clusters earlier and may have too many per plant. But, that's how we learn!

I'm hoping for a good fall - picked up - literally - my new crusher-destemmer from George Corn just last Friday!


----------



## mgmarty

Wow! Looks great!! Good to hear from you. Been awhile.


----------



## ibglowin

Nothing wrong with those clusters Dave! Sure beats my lowly hail beaten crop for this year.....


----------



## grapeman

Harvest won't be that far away now Dave. Good luck the rest of the year. Hopefully you can make a bit of wine this year.


----------



## OilnH2O

*Harvest Time!!*

Funny - picked our grapes LAST year on this date, too! Hard freeze - our first this fall - down to 26 according to the WX man.
(Oh... Go Cards!)


----------



## mgmarty

Very nice! They look great!


----------



## grapeman

I hope you got enough this year to make at least a small batch of wine. You certainly have earned it.


----------



## OilnH2O

Rich, last year we got about 6 gallons - maybe 5 1/2 of our grapes with the rest the "top off" of other wine. I did NOT do a MF - and wish I did, since it is a little sharp, that's the TA - but not bad. This year, I had a row of the bird netting that a couple of flickers got into and pecked away the cloths-pins holding them together and got into the rows. Several vines that were just - literally - picked clean. So I got enough for maybe 3 gallons of wine, when it is all over. I'm at the "must" stage, had to add sugar - to bring the brix up to 24 from 18. _(Last year, my brix at this time was 22. The year before some vines up to 26. We had a lot of rain in September and I'm wondering if that had a lot to do with the low numbers - cloudy and wet and cold)_ And, the ph is within limits - 3.3; TA is at .90 so will do a Malolactic Fermentation - didn't do that last year. But thanks to Mike, I'm up on my chemistry this year!

It will be good - and in Montana, that can be wonderful!


----------



## OilnH2O

*Making a cake*

SG is 1.000 and so pressed today - about 3 1/2 gallons of must which is just about half of what last year's production yielded. Tried a new yeast - VIntner's Harvest, CR-51. Usually I've used Lalvin but this was recommended. Nice garnet color, lees already settling out. Will yield only abut 15 bottles but it should be good. Will start the MLF and see how that goes!


----------



## ibglowin

With that amount of cake leftover you should have had 6 gallons! Press harder! 

Looking good Dave!


----------



## mgmarty

That's amazing! Great to see you with a vintage. I'm very jealous.


----------



## OilnH2O

Ahhh...* "patience!"*


----------



## OilnH2O

*Bud Break 2014*

I notice this is a day earlier than last year - but in spite of the fact we haven't had a late frost in late April/early May this year(Oops ...now, watch: a late, LATE frost at the end of the week!)... bud break is about the same time each year. Shown here is Marachal Foch (the first two pics) and Leon Millot (last picture). The little leaves show so much promise!

The Pinot Noir and Reisling are running sap out of the pruning cuts, but just a few swelling buds for the most part. They are touch and go but part of a long-term experiment. 

Sometimes I think growing grapes in Montana is just a means to keep a positive outlook!


----------



## mgmarty

That looks fantastic!


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## OilnH2O

*Happy Mothers Day!*

*HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!

*Yes, Mother's Day in Montana!


----------



## mgmarty

Crap. That's not good!


----------



## grapeman

Bah Humbug!


----------



## ibglowin

Keep em closed up as long as possible!


----------



## OilnH2O

Not as bad as it looks - the snow was gone by noon, but it turned off clear and the next morning we woke up to 28* and frost! The leaves are a little nipped, but only time will tell if it got the whole bud... we'll see! And this, of course, on the day the gum'mint released the latest "the sky is falling even faster 'n we thought" report.

For those new to the thread, when people ask why I'm growing grapes in Montana I tell them "I'm betting on global warming!" ::


----------



## OilnH2O

I'd better get on the ball, or else I'll have little between "bud break" and "harvest." 

Got the final pruning a couple weeks ago, then because of the bird issues last year, got the bird netting on sooner - about the 2nd week of August. Might have been early but there were two flickers that were eyeing the young, green berries and I had flickers last year that got more than half my "crop." 

The pic's are first, of the netting, with marachal foch in the foreground, second of Leon Millot, third is my last Edelweiss vine, and the last is one of the Pinot Noir vines. Only a few of those left from the 25 I started with - but, hey! _This is fun, right!_


----------



## mgmarty

Only a few of those left from the 25 I started with - but, hey! This is fun, right!

Damn straight! They look great! Good to hear from you. 


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good Dave!


----------



## OilnH2O

Thanks, Mike - 

Hoping for at least 100+ pounds this year - then I can get one of those barrels like yours and really look like I know what I'm doing!


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Things ARE looking good there Dave. This must be the year for considering barrel storage for the mini-grower - I'm thinking of buying my first one too. Kind of depends upon how much the various critters leave me


----------



## OilnH2O

Bill, your Foch are still doing well - covered in ice this morning, though!

"Hard Freeze" said the WX man last night so at 0400 it was 32 and forecast to go as low as 25* 

Had to institute the "Florida Plan" - so on with the sprinklers on manual mode.

The first picture is at 0700 still in shade, but temp was 27* (and the low). The second and third pictures were at 0800 with the sun just beginning to hit the vines - and by 0900 it was 32 and now, 0945 is 37* and all is melting. High today is 67* and 70s through next week. Whew! 
(Side note: This is a great 2 minute video on how we deal with this time of year - the local "Ten Spoon" winery of 15 acres is about 7 miles north and I could hear his helicopter - Andy uses the "California plan" - but he has more money involved in his! He also gets colder on that side of the valley. Said on the news last night he had 27* yesterday morning while we had 33.* See for a http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/ten-spoon-winery-uses-helicopter-to-save-grapes/28019550 )


----------



## grapeman

It is just too early for all this! Hope everything pulled through alright for you. It really coolded down here the last day- went from 80 in the afternoon yesterday to 46 this Am and will only be in the 50's and 60's for highs for a few days. That will slow down ripening.


----------



## GreginND

Oh goodness. We lucked out here. I'm not worried about the grapes yet as I don't have a crop. But I have a big garden and need my tomatoes and basil in a couple weeks for a vine to dine dinner event. We dropped down into the 30's but no signs of frost yet. It skirted around our location.


----------



## ibglowin

Basil is tender. I have seen it burn at ~34 degrees!


----------



## OilnH2O

I believe, with our late spring and this past frost, we "officially" had a 104 day growing season. But, the forecast for the next 10 days is good - this is what we are all working on - at least here on the margin. You can see from the info below, getting through that couple days of frost gives me at least 10-plus days of more "good" weather. I've been able to get the brix up to 22-26* in the past when I can pick as late as possible, and so that's what I'm shooting for!


----------



## ibglowin

Looks like you dodged bullet Dave!


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Boy, THAT must add weight to your trellises.


----------



## OilnH2O

*Flickers!*

Thanks, Bill. With the production this year, I'm cautiously optimistic. But, as with golf, are there "wine gods" out there? And, are they laughing? 

Yesterday, I heard a odd bird call in the front yard, then saw a flicker - FLICKER?! I went to the vineyard and one was INSIDE the netting on one row and as I quickly applied adverse conditioning (one firecracker!) I saw it running on the ground, then out the END of the netting where it was at one of the end-posts. _(Flickers got into the nets last year - it might be these same two - and really hit me hard - I got a total of 15 bottles from last year's harvest!)_

I spent the rest of the day checking and fixing small holes where the netting didn't quite meet at the end-posts and then anchoring a long, 20 foot section of netting where it didn't quite touch the ground on one side. This morning I haven't seen the little buggers but if my adverse conditioning doesn't work, I may have to resort to more drastic measures!


----------



## OilnH2O

Well... we successfully got the flickers to go elsewhere - no dead little flicker bodies anywhere (cause that's a federal offense, you know) so rest easy you birders!

Wonderfully warm September weather after the hard frost, even up to 90* a few days ago. The cold front came in today, we harvested this afternoon, we crushed right after, and the rains came just as we finished the crush.

Brix's measured from a low of 14 on a poorly producing pinot vine (only a couple clusters) to 24-26 on some Foch. Highest Pinot was 21 brix, Leon Millot generally around 22-24 and the edelweiss was 17.8 but sure tasted sweet.

The average for all was 22.8, including the Edelweiss which we just threw in with the rest. 

I was a little disappointed with the production, which ended up being only 70 lbs. so we'll get maybe 5 gallons if we are lucky. We crushed it within an hour of picking and will let it "cold soak" and then press likely on Wednesday.


----------



## mgmarty

Sure looks good! Looks like a lot of fun too! 


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## grapeman

Glad you got some this year. Hope it turns out great for you.


----------



## ibglowin

Good looking fruit you got there Dave! Looks like we both need to work on quantity for next year!



OilnH2O said:


> Well... we successfully got the flickers to go elsewhere - no dead little flicker bodies anywhere (cause that's a federal offense, you know) so rest easy you birders!
> 
> Wonderfully warm September weather after the hard frost, even up to 90* a few days ago. The cold front came in today, we harvested this afternoon, we crushed right after, and the rains came just as we finished the crush.
> 
> Brix's measured from a low of 14 on a poorly producing pinot vine (only a couple clusters) to 24-26 on some Foch. Highest Pinot was 21 brix, Leon Millot generally around 22-24 and the edelweiss was 17.8 but sure tasted sweet.
> 
> The average for all was 22.8, including the Edelweiss which we just threw in with the rest.
> 
> I was a little disappointed with the production, which ended up being only 70 lbs. so we'll get maybe 5 gallons if we are lucky. We crushed it within an hour of picking and will let it "cold soak" and then press likely on Wednesday.


----------



## OilnH2O

Okay, I admit the basic pic for this label was just posted above... so it wasn't taken during 2013 - when the grapes for this wine were harvested, but it seemed so sickenly cute for my "first crush" with a new (thanks, George!) crusher destemmer that was purchased that year, that I had to include it. Of course, there have been several comments about whether the TITLE goes with the person in the picture... but you know, our memories begin to fail as we get older! 
The wine was actually bottled a few months ago, but I just got around to the labels for Christmas... and it's a good way to pass the time this time of year. If I had a picture of the vineyard, it would all be covered in white... snow. But, days ARE getting longer, and summer's coming!


----------



## grapeman

Those labels look great Dave!. How does the wine taste???????


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good Dave! Are you making a "field blend" each year with whatever you get?


----------



## OilnH2O

grapeman said:


> How does the wine taste???????


Actually... surprisingly good! Surprisingly, because a few weeks after we bottled, we tasted one of the "last bottles" - which is actually the last two or three, and SWMBO looked at me and said... "That's not bad! In fact, it's good!" I think it's going to age pretty well - at least if it retains how it tastes now without the sharpness, it'll just get better.

I'll be interested in seeing what happens this year with our only-24-hours-on-the-skins, wine. 

And yes, I guess "field blend" is as good a descriptor as any! It's 60% Millot, 25% Foch, 10% Pinot and 5% Edelweiss. 

(I'll have to come up with a good image for the '14 Field Blend labels!)

(BTW, Mike - I miss the "tramp")


----------



## RedSun

The bottled wine looks great. The efforts bear fruits....


----------



## oregondabbler

OilnH2O said:


> Actually... surprisingly good! Surprisingly, because a few weeks after we bottled, we tasted one of the "last bottles" - which is actually the last two or three, and SWMBO looked at me and said... "That's not bad! In fact, it's good!" I think it's going to age pretty well - at least if it retains how it tastes now without the sharpness, it'll just get better.
> 
> I'll be interested in seeing what happens this year with our only-24-hours-on-the-skins, wine.
> 
> And yes, I guess "field blend" is as good a descriptor as any! It's 60% Millot, 25% Foch, 10% Pinot and 5% Edelweiss.
> 
> (I'll have to come up with a good image for the '14 Field Blend labels!)
> 
> (BTW, Mike - I miss the "tramp")


Congrats on the successful vintage.


----------



## OilnH2O

ORDab - thanks. Sorry I didn't see your post until now...


I popped on to warm up my hands... and fingers (typing being good for circulation). Yesterday (1 April) it was 33* in the morning then gropple showers throughout the day. "Just like April Fools..." I thought. I've been re-setting some posts and wanted to finish up. So today, after chores and the temp was up to 47* I went out after lunch to finish re-setting the last two posts. Half way through the first one, GROPPLE. Then more gropple. I could believe it - after all, that's why we talk about "cold-hardy!" But that describes what we plant! This kept up, wind came up, and finally after setting and tamping the second post, I came up! (To the house!) There, I found the temp had dropped to 39... jeesh. And this is April 2nd! 

I tried to take a picture but it just shows a semi-sunny, blue sky here-and-there and grey clouds. The far off snow/gropple showers are there against the hills but don't really show up.... And, of course when the gropple was white on the ground I was trying to dig, not take pictures! So, I can't post a pic of "springtime in the Rockies" but you know those lyrics aren't made up!


----------



## grapeman

I have to tell you Dave, I needed to look up what the heck gropple was! Sounds nice and warm. It was actually up to 20 degrees this AM for a low. It has been getting a bit warmer and I have been able to prune some areas without getting stuck in the snow. Yesterday the row I tried to work on kept getting deeper the farther I went down it so I gave up on it when it reached my knees. And you were digging? I would need a jackhammer to try to break through the 5 feet or so of frost here.


----------



## OilnH2O

*This is for Rich!*

I may have been digging last week but I _know_ I am not alone in all the, uh... "challenges" of growing grapes in the northern climes... and that all of us here on the forums from 7000 feet at Lost Almost to Maine, and points in between, can appreciate, and even laugh, at the challenges! 

THIS is what we woke up to this morning! And, while there was some _gropple_ mixed in, it was all the real stuff!


----------



## mgmarty

That is crazy!


----------



## grapeman

Sunday we had snow flakes in the morning and it was mid 60's later that day.


----------



## ColemanM

But what a view!!!!


----------



## OilnH2O

grapeman said:


> Sunday we had snow flakes in the morning and it was mid 60's later that day.



See, Rich - I KNEW you'd understand and appreciate that little wake-up. We had 70* on the 13th... then 47* and flurries yesterday... and supposed to be partly sunny and 50 today. Marty, too. Greatest snow on earth, there!



ColemanM said:


> But what a view!!!!



Yeah, nice view - we do call it "Farviews Vineyards" - in case I decide to put in a _second one!_

(now, back to taxes...)


----------



## ibglowin

And I thought I was a procrastinator doing them on Sunday!  



OilnH2O said:


> (now, back to taxes...)


----------



## OilnH2O

ibglowin said:


> And I thought I was a procrastinator doing them on Sunday!


I don't want to give it any earlier than I have to!

BUT, you'll be happy to know I just started my pruning yesterday! I read something about that "prune in March" business... _read to the end of the sentence! _It was that most vineyards prune in March to get through their whole vineyard before bud-break! 

Well, since I could do MY "whole vineyard" in an afternoon "before bud-break," I'm breaking it up to at least two days!


----------



## ibglowin

We are in the same "tax boat". Why give them a free loan of your money? Interesting that they don't reciprocate the favor. Don't pay enough in over the course of the year and they get to penalize you if it exceeds a certain amount…...


----------



## sour_grapes

Oh, jeez. We are getting hit hard by graupel today. Thanks, Oil, for teaching me the right word!


----------



## ibglowin

Sounds like you said it was raining this……… LOL


----------



## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> Sounds like you said it was raining this……… LOL




Hey, I am a Philly native. I recognize Scrapple from a mile away!


----------



## OilnH2O

Next thing, Paul and Mike are going to turn this into a "wrestling" thread!

YESTERDAY, Paul - we had bud-break. 71* and warm - no gropple... or snapple! 

Well, at least we had bud-break on the M. Foch and Leon Millot. But the Edelweiss (only one vine left!) is swelling, the Pinot is getting there... don't think I lost any this year, touch wood as the Aussies say, and the Reisling is not looking good. I guess those people who say you can't grow Pinot or Reisling in Montana are half-right. 

The problem with bud-break is the tenderness, as we all know, of these new leaves and we WILL have frost as late as the first week in May. So, I've got to get the sprinklers charged or else we can lose the whole batch... 

Here are some pictures 
First are Foch, then Millot, then the Pinot.


----------



## grapeman

Well Dave what is wrong with a good cage match or two. We can have Mike and Paul going at it, although I would rater see a couple of the big boobed ladies wrastling.

We aren't that awful far behind you now although we may get some light snow/ rain mix tonight. Ot poured most of the day so not a lot of pruning got done.


----------



## ibglowin

Where is Julie when we need her! 

Straight to the corner!


----------



## sour_grapes

grapeman said:


> Well Dave what is wrong with a good cage match or two. We can have Mike and Paul going at it,



Mike, I didn't even know we were going at it. Did you? 



> although I would rater see a couple of the big boobed ladies wrastling.



Ummm, so would Mike and I!


----------



## OilnH2O

(_Hmmm... do I 'reply' or just... 'let it go'...)

"Let it go..."

"Let it GO..."

"LET IT GO!!!"



_


----------



## RedSun

Nice looking buds.

The buds on my vines just come out, like rice grains. Since our official frost date (4/15) has past, I'm probably fine. 



OilnH2O said:


> Next thing, Paul and Mike are going to turn this into a "wrestling" thread!
> 
> YESTERDAY, Paul - we had bud-break. 71* and warm - no gropple... or snapple!
> 
> Well, at least we had bud-break on the M. Foch and Leon Millot. But the Edelweiss (only one vine left!) is swelling, the Pinot is getting there... don't think I lost any this year, touch wood as the Aussies say, and the Reisling is not looking good. I guess those people who say you can't grow Pinot or Reisling in Montana are half-right.
> 
> The problem with bud-break is the tenderness, as we all know, of these new leaves and we WILL have frost as late as the first week in May. So, I've got to get the sprinklers charged or else we can lose the whole batch...
> 
> Here are some pictures
> First are Foch, then Millot, then the Pinot.


----------



## OilnH2O

RedSun said:


> Nice looking buds.
> 
> The buds on my vines just come out, like rice grains. Since our official frost date (4/15) has past, I'm probably fine.




Red, I hope you're okay. 

On the other hand, I just happened to watch my Cards whip the Nationals and... heads up Sourgrapes... saw _scrapple_ falling from the sky in the Cubbies - Pirates game, in Pittsburgh.
Hmmm... No - WAIT - that was _GROPPLE! _

But Red, _a gropple shower_ in mid-April in your part of the world means... yes, _Climate Change!!!_


----------



## OilnH2O

Veraison very early - about 3 weeks ago. Netting went up the first week of August and yet, here is the difference between trying to grow Pinot Noir where it won't grow (well) and others that will. One picture is Leon Millot - nice and dark blue and the other - green- is the PN.

Smoky here from fires - these pictures were from two days ago when we had some visibility.


----------



## ibglowin

Great looking clusters either way Dave! I have the same thing going on this year. Marquette looks to be about ready to pick but the Corot Noir and Noiret and just beginning to start veraison!


----------



## OilnH2O

ibglowin said:


> Great looking clusters either way Dave! I have the same thing going on this year. Marquette looks to be about ready to pick but the Corot Noir and Noiret and just beginning to start veraison!



Veraison about 40 percent on the Pinot now... but now the big problem is the yellow jackets! Traps all over but they like the sweetness in the berries not the attractant in the traps!


----------



## OilnH2O

Have been fighting the da%m birds for several days now. 

I think these are passing through - some sort of a finch although they look like an immature meadowlark - but I don't think that's what they are. I got a close up look at the one caught in the bird netting. I should have taken a picture but the bird police would have probably wanted to outlaw bird netting. His head was pushed through on the outside and the rest of him/her was fluttering on the inside.

No, in spite of his little buddies coming back all afternoon and still finding their way in (but I've repaired them many times since) I took my pocket knife out, ran the blade through his feathers and the net, and cut him loose. (And yes, I was sorely tempted to turn the blade the other direction but I always try to think things through - like, "How will you explain this to your daughter?") 

He hung there in the vines for about 10 minutes then got enough strength to fall to the ground where I opened up an escape route for the little ess-oh-bee. He promptly flew into the netting on the next row, fell to the ground again and was headed south last I saw. But, a half hour later one of his buds was in the next row and I chased him out but that's how you find where they got in. 

But, I'll bet I've lost maybe 5 percent of some great purple berries - between them and the yellow jackets its a long way to harvest!


----------



## ibglowin

Never give up, never surrender! LOL


----------



## OilnH2O

Released about another half dozen between yesterday and today. I had another 120' of 17'-wide bird netting, so my DW and I put it _over the top_ - literally, from the ground from one edge, over the three main rows of vines, down to the ground on the third. Could close off one end but not really the other so they are still getting in, but we don't think any got into the main (previously wrapped) bird-netted vines. What happens it seems is that the ones that get in get caught up in the over-netting then don't get too involved in trying to do anything other than get out! 

I left for the *University of Montana* Grizzly stadium at 10:30 am for the big game against *North Dakota State* - the Bisons are the 4-time national champions FCS (the old Division 1A) and while DW was on bird patrol/release I watched the most exciting game I've seen in a long time! It was televised on ESPN as the first college game (and the only one this weekend) in the Nation. 

Football season is here!


----------



## OilnH2O

*Durn Birds...*

It is amazing to watch these little suckers try to get in. Actually, I think they are actually _Cordilleran Flycatchers._ At least that's what the modern biologists have decided they are since they are "Western Flycatchers" in my (old) Peterson Field Guide to Western Birds. But, no matter... they sit on a fence and then fly into the bird netting, fluttering, often getting caught. Then they flutter til they get loose and fly back to the fence, rest then have another go.

Below is a picture of what they find even if they get through the first layer - the "over the top" netting, as you can see against the sky. Then, they have to find a way into the second (and original) layer. 

By golly, _I want to get some production _out of these vines this year!


----------



## ibglowin

I wonder if one of those plastic owls would help keep them away? I had a couple of Robin's when I netted. They gave up after a few days and moved on down the road….. LOL


----------



## GreginND

Our neighboring vineyard put in a bird scare system. It's solar powered and recreates randomly noises of predatory birds. It actually seems to be working reasonably well.


----------



## mgmarty

I like the secure feeling of netting. I haven't seen a bird in the vineyard for awhile, they've given up at my place as well.


----------



## OilnH2O

ibglowin said:


> I wonder if one of those plastic owls would help keep them away? I had a couple of Robin's when I netted. They gave up after a few days and moved on down the road….. LOL



Mike - two owls - one within 20 feet (on the deck) and another on my roof - work on pigeons but not the songbirds. I thought about my osprey kite - which also did great at keeping birds away but went on the direct attack with the netting. Like Mgmarty, after that day of watching them try to get in through the netting, yesterday they seem to have moved on. I have to admit that the day before yesterday, Greg, I might have _bought_ any idea - including solar powered predator cries - to keep them out. Do they have an loud one from a dive-bombing Peregrine Falcon? 


And, just as I knew, my 25 year old daughter was home and saw a bird fluttering in the net: 'Ahhh, we have to go _set him free,_ Dad!' I said "just watch for a few minutes" but she went to try to help and came back and said "He was gone when I got there."

I was looking for my drumsticks...


----------



## OilnH2O

*First look: Brix*

Here are the first Brix readings - taken with refractometer Sept 10
No, I did not do TA or pH - just seeing what's going on out there in back, other than feeding the yellow-jackets! 
(The doubled bird netting has been successful - not against the YJs though... )

LM= Leon Millot
M.Foch = Marachal Foch
PN= Pinot Noir

 -LM ----  M. Foch ----   PN 
21.0 ---- 21.8 ---- 19.4 
21.2 ---- 17.2 ---- 17.6
19.4 ---- 15.0 ---- 25.0
22.2
26.0
20.4
23.4

(Sorry for the dashes and attempts to make a table! It doesn't end up the way you first lay it out...)
I have one Edelweiss survivor which had 16.8* and found a cluster on one of my Reisling vines that measured 12.4* I had 8 of the Reisling vines, potted that I found in a nursery in Washington Tri-cities and purchased 3 years ago just for grins (that's them in my avatar among the flamingos). Four have survived but only two have grown more than a couple feet high. The one cluster this year is the first, but I think we can conclude that Reisling won't grow in my backyard! 

The reading for all the berries crushed and mixed together -- my field blend -- is 19.4* Now it is a race to see if letting them hang longer will add more sugar while losing more berries to those sucking Yellow Jackets - and yes, they are little suckers. That's the correct terminology for things that _suck_ out the juice so I'm trying to be technical, not emotional, here... calling them _little suckers... _(Mods please note!)


----------



## OilnH2O

*Picking tomorrow... I think!*

Wonderful fall weather in Montana - this first picture shows some of the color that's beginning to show on the PN - the other varieties are still green. While we had one night near 35* we've been mostly typical Indian summer type days with lows in the low 40s and highs in the high 70s and even a few low 80s in the last few weeks.

This picture also shows the double bird netting - the rows are covered lengthwise, gathered underneath, then a second layer over the top of the whole vineyard. What has happened is that birds that have gotten in, tend to focus on flying into the outer netting, forgetting about trying to get into the inner netting. I really cut down on the loss after doing this. See the next post for more details...


----------



## OilnH2O

*Durn Birds...Update!*

These pictures show the damage from the birds, with the first two most typical. The third picture also shows some shrunken berries which I think are the result of the yellow-jackets. While the traps got a bunch, the smell of the fruit was pretty apparent when you walked in the vineyard so I think the bees went right on by the traps. I may try different traps next year - I was using the chemical "attractant" type but may go to the apple-juice/drown 'em type!


----------



## BlueStimulator

For kicks and giggles this year I kept just a few cluster on my second leafing and by the looks of your pics song birds, quail and yellow jackets got all of mine. I love reading your updates and seeing your vineyard pics. I did get a couple of my Viognier grapes, I didn't realize just how sweet wine grapes were. Good luck with harvest and crush


----------



## mgmarty

Cold fronts coming! Getting rain here now. Hope your harvest goes well.


----------



## grapeman

It seems everything wants to eat the grapes. It is a wonder we are able to make any wine at all.


----------



## ibglowin

Yep, I had a few vines that I didn't net as they only had a few clusters. Everyone of the grapes has been picked to pieces by the birds. I also know that my Golden retrievers got into to the garden and ate some grapes as I picked up several nice "loads" out of the grass that were full of grape seeds. I need to build a better fence as one of them can actually leap over it (3' wire).


----------



## OilnH2O

BlueStimulator said:


> For kicks and giggles this year I kept just a few cluster on my second leafing and by the looks of your pics song birds, quail and yellow jackets got all of mine. I love reading your updates and seeing your vineyard pics. I did get a couple of my Viognier grapes, I didn't realize just how sweet wine grapes were. Good luck with harvest and crush



Thanks... I know what you mean. I have a reisling of the several I've got left - the only one that fruited this year and they are incredibly sweet... 



mgmarty said:


> Cold fronts coming! Getting rain here now. Hope your harvest goes well.



I hope you keep it south, Marty! We've got the clouds, some chance of showers tomorrow morning and only 58, and Sunday 59 (with lows no lower than 38) but highs in the 68-75 range through the 11th - the day I return. 



grapeman said:


> It seems everything wants to eat the grapes. It is a wonder we are able to make any wine at all.



Amen, Brother! 

As I posted on Mike's thread, I've reconsidered on when to pick. We've got a great 10 day forecast as I mentioned above. I have a trip to Riverside Cali next Wed-Sunday so we've been trying to either do things early so I can be away for 4 days or wait... and which would be best: pick next week... or after I get back. I am now thinking that I'll pick Tuesday or even Wednesday morning (plane not until late afternoon) and crush with some SO2 and cold-soak for those 5 days - the grapes can be in the cooler garage (it's getting no higher than 60 in there with the door closed) and have the cold packs refrozen by my 'support team.' I think I can keep the grapes on the skins longer, keep the temps in the 50's, and then pitch the yeast when I get back... OR... I have to admit I'm tempted to let them keep hanging through the whole period and pick when I get back. They are protected from the birds now, the YJs have lessened with the cooler temps... and that's more "hang time" which to me, is a good thing... yes???


----------



## grapeman

You need to consider also that when they get to a certain ripeness they can go bad on you leterally overnight. As they become over ripe they will break down and rot on you. With all the heat we had in September making them ripen much more quickly I lost a good share of my grapes this year especially the reds. I just don't have the help to pick all the grapes quickly. I was watching the grapes and when they hit what I considered harvest numbers I woul plan to pick but a number of times what we couldn't pick that day were gone by the next (they simply rotted on the vine). Best of luck which ever way you decide to go.


----------



## Sage

Try "Onslaught" for the yellow jackets. 

Set up bait stations early and often. Around here they are after water, sweet or blood (mine sometimes). A few bait station will clear a 1/4 acre. They were horrible last year early on, but none got to my grapes and almost nothing this year. My buddy was having quite a fight but I didn't.


----------



## bhoenisch

35 degrees with a rain/snow mix on this side of the continental divide in Great Falls MT this fine afternoon. We got down to 29 a few nights ago.


----------



## OilnH2O

Sage said:


> Try "Onslaught" for the yellow jackets.
> 
> Set up bait stations early and often. Around here they are after water, sweet or blood (mine sometimes). A few bait station will clear a 1/4 acre. They were horrible last year early on, but none got to my grapes and almost nothing this year. My buddy was having quite a fight but I didn't.



I'll check that out next year... it's certain if I do all that early, we won't have 'em! 



bhoenisch said:


> 35 degrees with a rain/snow mix on this side of the continental divide in Great Falls MT this fine afternoon. We got down to 29 a few nights ago.



A friend went to the Montana Pilots Association meeting in Lewistown over the weekend and reported the same. We had forecasts for as low as 29 last night but it was only 34 at 0800 - still ran the sprinklers just in case but no ice formed. 
Doing chem tests today. Brix is up and I'm liking that. Some samples into the 27* range. 

M. Foch= 23.7 (avg)
L. Millot = 24.9 (avg)
Pinot Noir = 25.4 (avg)
Edelwiess = 19.8 (avg)
Reisling = 19.0

Now for those chem tests... if I can just remember what Mike (Ibeglowin) said to do...


----------



## ibglowin

LOL 

Sounds like you better pick'em while you still can! You know the rules, no travel during harvest time! I declined to go to a wedding last weekend in Phoenix (106F) as I was still in the middle of crush. Priorities!


----------



## OilnH2O

ibglowin said:


> LOL
> 
> Sounds like you better pick'em while you still can! You know the rules, no travel during harvest time! I declined to go to a wedding last weekend in Phoenix (106F) as I was still in the middle of crush. Priorities!



What did your daughter say when you weren't there? 

Oh... I see, the _real_ reason is that temperature! 

Well... I can't dodge this one - and unless I can find somewhere to put the grapes in a refrigerator - actually a walk-in because I'd have to pick and crush, then cold soak and pitch everything on Sunday when I get back... or wait til Sunday and pick and crush... 

On another note - my pH was 3.65 by the meter and my TA test was .6 on the acid - that was with three of us all agreeing the color had changed to the "dark grey brown." No free SO2 test because I don't have enough juice from the samples to run it, too.


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## grapeman

Dave no need for a free S02 test before picking them anyways.


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## ibglowin

I told her she should not have picked a weekend right during harvest and crush!  No it was just a childhood friend of our daughters. It was outdoors and it was 106F for the high that day. At least it was a dry "heave" right……

Those numbers look great Dave. You mention you might have 70lbs. enough to produce about 5 gallons of must and maybe 3 gallons of finished wine.

Do you have a fridge you could put it in until you get back so you could pick it and deal with it later. I would argue against a 5 day cold soak especially if there is nobody there who knows what they are doing and what to look for if a problem comes up.

If you decide to go with the cold soak you should have a source of dry ice available and have it added every day or so as needed to keep temps in the 50's and add SO2 to keep the native yeast at bay at crush.



OilnH2O said:


> What did your daughter say when you weren't there?


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## OilnH2O

grapeman said:


> Dave no need for a free S02 test before picking them anyways.


I remembered that... after awhile. If I did this more than once a year, I'd _remember better_!!! 

(By the way... Of the 7 Reisling plants I put in several years ago - _that's them in pots among the Flamingos, to the left in my avatar -_ six are still in various stages of growth, but 3 of the six surprised us with a few clusters on each vine. There's hope for them yet!)


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## OilnH2O

*Picked!*

Picked October 6... crushed and placed in coolers - 34* until October 11 then gently brought up to about 52* and pitched yeast (Lalvin 71B) on October 12. Going to town today!

First picture is of my crusher set up - and cutting bag to insure it all goes where it is supposed to go... and some of the picking. 

That's me looking happy in the 70* Montana fall weather! Total is 88 pounds.


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## grapeman

Wow Dave you will get more than a half gallon this year! LOL They look great and you do too.


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## ibglowin

Beautiful clusters Dave. I think you made an good call to store them in the fridge until you got back!


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## mgmarty

Wow, nice job!


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## OilnH2O

*Time to press...*

Aw, thanks, guys.... Gee, you make me _blush....

(Where's the rim-shot emogie?) _ 

Today is October 15th - started with brix at 25.2 and kept it at 60-62* over the last few days. Punched down often as I could but it was about 3-4 times a day.

SG is 1.052 
ABV is 7.2% 
Balling 1.35

(all readings on the hydrometer)

So I'm pressing this afternoon!


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## ColemanM

Ok +1 on you and your grapes looking good but can I be "that guy" and state, man that doesn't look safe up there on the garbage can with wheels. If it were me, Murphy's law would come in to play and I WOULD have only a 1/2 gallon this year!! Actually, I did only get a half gallon but there were other reasons [emoji12]


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## OilnH2O

ColemanM said:


> Ok +1 on you and your grapes looking good but can I be "that guy" and state, man that doesn't look safe up there on the garbage can with wheels. If it were me, Murphy's law would come in to play and I WOULD have only a 1/2 gallon this year!! Actually, I did only get a half gallon but there were other reasons [emoji12]



Thanks... you're probably right but that is a "food-grade" 32 gallon container and pretty stout. What I really like about it is when I used to climb in there (without the wheels on the bottom!) and crush the old fashioned way. Really. And, the fact that cold water spray from the garden house and it all comes clean with no stains. In fact, I have several pricey food-grade bins and containers and the grape juice doesn't stain them. 

(Now... "that guy" might say "TMI" but when I crushed them "by foot" you could see how high the must was by looking at my legs!)


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## sour_grapes

OilnH2O said:


> (Now... "that guy" might say "TMI" but when I crushed them "by foot" you could see how high the must was by looking at my legs!)



Oh, dear Lord, I hope you favored small batches!!


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## OilnH2O

*More pictures*

We all like pictures and I was fortunate to have an assistant around who wanted to take a few. So I thought I'd share some more.

I pressed today after those brix readings. I have just over 6 gallons and it is split between a 6 gallon and 3 gallon carboy. All the activity and the warm (70* temps) brought out the yellow jackets and the foam. I'm keeping it in the garage overnight - it is at 72*F (22* C) - hence the foam - and I want to cool it back down. It was at 60 to 62 degrees F since cold soaking and after I pitched the yeast and it was just doing well at that temperature so I want to get it back closer to that. The pH is 3.84 and that's higher than where it started at 3.65.

Pictures are several of my "field blend" of Foch, Millot, PN and a few clusters of Edelwiess and Reisling. And, one of the crusher (good help is hard to find) and crushing operation.


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## ibglowin

LOL Looking good Dave!

Where did you learn to try and put a square peg into a round hole?


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## Boatboy24

Those grapes look fantastic!


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## mgmarty

That's a great looking crop! Looks like a lot of fun too. Your having a good year!


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## OilnH2O

mgmarty said:


> That's a great looking crop! Looks like a lot of fun too. Your having a good year!



Thanks!
And, having a good time! I told Mike even though I've got the 6 1/2 gallons split between two carboys out in the garage (where it's much cooler - closer to 60*) the bubble airlocks sound like "two teen age hearts in the back seat of the car..."


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## mgmarty

I don't know where you get those airlocks, but I'll take two!


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## OilnH2O

mgmarty said:


> I don't know where you get those airlocks, but I'll take two!



Sorry, Marty... they have slowed to almost nothing, now - must be too worn out!


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## OilnH2O

*Can't close your eyes to reality!*

Well, I figured I'd better document this early warm weather and it's effects on emergence this year. As I have said in previous posts, we can almost guarantee a late spring frost in the first week of May. Weather has been early all over the West. We were in Arizona in February and experienced 90* temps which was great... but was their earliest recording of temperatures that high - in February. As Marty, Rich, Mike and others have observed in other posts, the buds are early this year. But, we can only watch, wait and see what happens!
First picture - Marachal Foch, then Leon Millot, Pinot Noir and Reisling. (Taken April 13)


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## grapeman

Wow, the Leon Millot really wants to grow right now. All three buds (primary, secondary and tertiary) are pushing. If they get large enough and then it freezes there won't be many buds left to pop out after the freeze.


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## Sage

Just sprayed the vines and my Merlots look exactly like your photo. Might even be a little further along and are opening. Cabs are behind those and the Syrah are about inbetween the others. Looks like all of last years new planting of Carmenere are alive and well, just starting to show good buds.

The weather chanel radar looked like you were getting the storm that just went through here. It's warming back up here so hang in there and that will get there in a day or so!!


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## mgmarty

Yes, I love this time of year! Baco's are leading out here in Utah. Seyvals are just yesterday starting to push buds.


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## BlueStimulator

I really love following this post thanks for updating it. Things are moving along here in Yakima too. We are also way above normal in temps too. With my rock "mulch" the vines want to go right now. We are a lot warmer than usual and most farmers are saying we are at least 2-3 weeks ahead of normal. I will post a few pic's of my varieties.


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## BlueStimulator

Cab Franc which are just behind the Viognier


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## BlueStimulator

Now the Petiete Verdot which in growth are tied with the Cab F


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## BlueStimulator

Finally last to come out of their winter slumber is the Cabernet Sauvignon


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## BlueStimulator

Sage said:


> Just sprayed the vines




What are you spraying for in our neck of the woods.


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## OilnH2O

Wow Jason, you're really far along. I'll post some more pics later when I download them from the camera. The buds are breaking, and as Rich says, I notice many have all THREE buds pushing and trying to out-compete each other. But if we have that last freeze we normally get and they are all damaged, it will put everything several weeks behind.


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## OilnH2O

It may be Earth Day (22 Apr) but it's too early for Montana wine grapes to look like this. My concern is that "last" hard frost which always results in some damage but as Rich observed a few posts back - the weather has all the primary and secondary buds being pushed hard. 

First is Marachal Foch (2) - then Leon Millot (1) and Pinot Noir (2).


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## OilnH2O

And while it may be early, they do look great (to me!) 

Note the last PN picture above - I think that's an example of all three buds (primary and secondary) breaking at once. Where the first picture of the Foch shows an unbroken secondary bud that would likely survive a hard frost (as does the Edelweiss, below).

After the Edelweiss (1) are two Reisling pics.

The fourth is one of Foch again - as I took the picture I noticed movement at the top - the last one shows the visitor!

We have changing weather today and highs in the 50s tomorrow. I'll still worry about the frost, though for a couple weeks.


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## grapeman

I have got everything I have to cross, crossed for you to make it past freezes! Good luck.


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## ibglowin

Dave, you are weeks ahead of me down here at the southern tip of the Rockies!

My Marquette is pushing now but Corot Noir and Noiret and still shut tight. Good luck buddy!


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## BlueStimulator

We are still a few weeks away from being out of the woods ourselves. Three years ago this week, this was a photo I took when the local cherry farmers were trying to save their crop. The ice protects the buds so the will bear fruit.


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## OilnH2O

*You mean like THIS?? *

(THIS was May 5th, 2010)



OilnH2O said:


> I know I like pictures - so for my Southern Bud's (and everyone else too!) -- here is what it's like when they say, "Springtime in the Rockies!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a Marachal Foch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And a Pinot Noir, three-year old vine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost looks pretty... in a perverse sorta way!


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## OilnH2O

Last weekend veraison was just starting - literally maybe one or two purple berries on a vine - and then only on the Leon Millot. I pruned for what I hope is the last time, pulled some leaves, and decided to put on the bird net.

Maybe it is a little early but last year the birds got at least 25 percent of the crop.

Best were the 'bread clips." The pictures below show the white, large clips I bought at Wilson Orchard Supply in Pasco, Washington last spring. The green clip is a normal sized one from a loaf of bread. The bag holds 2,500 clips and I used maybe 400 at most, rolling the bottoms of the netting below and clipping together. I found last year the birds would fly at and peck at the bottom of the netting looking for any way to get in. I might have gotten away with fewer but I tried to leave no openings or even a hint of an opening. The second picture is taken from our deck showing each row covered with the netting. It took about two hours working by myself to place the netting on the top wire (specifically across the top of all posts to hold the net) and clip the bottom. I'm hoping this arrangement will do the job. After all, it is a constant learning experience!


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## OilnH2O

Vineyard from our deck showing netting.


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## grapeman

A true bird's eye view. Hope they are discouraged and leave you alone this year.


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## OilnH2O

This shows some of the Foch that is turning. And, the second picture shows how I've clipped my 17' wide netting from the bottom. I found by experience I cannot just let it lie on the ground. The birds just burrow under it so the bread clips - those white things you see in the picture - are clipped on the netting after I roll the two sides together.


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## OilnH2O

*A New Year!*

No global warming in Montana! 

I thought I'd give an update for "Montana Day" - that's 4/06 by the way.

Finished first pruning on March 19

Sap running nicely but has slowed since more snow as recently as Monday of this week - but then sun shining by evening. it's still the Last Best Place!


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## Johny99

Any bud kill? We were colder than normal but other than some small canes dieting, it looks like mine survived.


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## GreginND

My buds all look good, but I have not pruned things yet. I am very worried about bud break and frost. Last year we had a killing deep freeze on May 15. Our buds are now starting to swell a bit and I'm worried. I am holding off pruning in an attempt to keep the buds close to the spur dormant for a while longer.


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## OilnH2O

Brix at 22, frost is on the way, but a spectacular October Sunday made it time to harvest - a few pictures to show. For those who haven't followed, this is a small, backyard, roughly 30 vine vineyard with mostly Foch and Millot, 5 Pinot Noir and 4 Reisling vines, and 1 lonely Edelweiss. About 115 pounds of reds, and 15 pounds of reisling. That may yield about 45 bottles of red and maybe we'll get a gallon of resiling - as my Dad always used to say, "We'll see!"
The view of the vineyard from the deck gives it the name - Farviews Vineyard. The rest is just the day's fun.


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## OilnH2O

The View... Far to the west of Missoula, Montana


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## ibglowin

Looking good Dave! Good looking crew as well!


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## CK55

OilnH2O said:


> View attachment 51508
> View attachment 51509
> Brix at 22, frost is on the way, but a spectacular October Sunday made it time to harvest - a few pictures to show. For those who haven't followed, this is a small, backyard, roughly 30 vine vineyard with mostly Foch and Millot, 5 Pinot Noir and 4 Reisling vines, and 1 lonely Edelweiss. About 115 pounds of reds, and 15 pounds of reisling. That may yield about 45 bottles of red and maybe we'll get a gallon of resiling - as my Dad always used to say, "We'll see!"
> The view of the vineyard from the deck gives it the name - Farviews Vineyard. The rest is just the day's fun.


Nice  that's a unique spread of vine choices being I'm in a cool part of California I had different vine choices than most other california vineyards. Barbera and nebbiolo which I planted are frowned upon and disliked by every winemaker in California. But I think that I'll do better because I'm coastal, cool climate and maritime in Sandy soil like where the grapes are in itsly. So key is replicating the growing climate especially for nebbiolo which is one of the pickiest grapes you would ever be able to grow.


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## OilnH2O

Spring in Montana - at least in Missoula - has been really late. This is the latest bud-break since I've planted the vineyard and things are still slow. First 70* days were in the last week. 
The first picture is Marachal Foch, second is Leon Millot, the third is Pinot Noir. My single edelweiss is bud-swell, none have broken as are my few vines of Reisling. It's going to be an interesting year!
As I have said many times when people ask why I grow grapes in Montana, I smile and say, "I'm betting on global warming!" But, it seems like it has been pretty similar each year. We'll see how things catch up in the next few weeks.
-Dave


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## montanarick

I'm up near Kalispell and my vines have broke this past Sunday - pretty much in line with previous years.


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## HillPeople

All our vines are still sleeping here in N. Sandwich, NH. Elevation 1300'. Cold and wet spring so far.
Picture from this morning.


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## Dennis Griffith

Mine are awake and seeking attention. If it would just dry out a little. I didn't envision working the vineyard in muck boots to keep my socks dry ;-)


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## OilnH2O

MontanaRick - we lived in the Flathead before moving to Missoula 17 years ago - as this thread shows (e.g: posts 384 and 394 for last few years) mostly bud-break here at my location just off the valley floor in south hills is third-fourth week of April. The biggest concern has always been a frost in the first week of May that catches the leaves. We have had some cold lows last winter with a late spring, and I think there has been some bud-kill. On the other hand, the last below freezing overnight low was on May 1st at 29* officially but 33* here at our place. This year just seems to have been later, IMO. Two weeks behind can make the difference between brix in the fall from mid-20s to 15-18... #justsayin!


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## montanarick

OilnH2O said:


> MontanaRick - we lived in the Flathead before moving to Missoula 17 years ago - as this thread shows (e.g: posts 384 and 394 for last few years) mostly bud-break here at my location just off the valley floor in south hills is third-fourth week of April. The biggest concern has always been a frost in the first week of May that catches the leaves. We have had some cold lows last winter with a late spring, and I think there has been some bud-kill. On the other hand, the last below freezing overnight low was on May 1st at 29* officially but 33* here at our place. This year just seems to have been later, IMO. Two weeks behind can make the difference between brix in the fall from mid-20s to 15-18... #justsayin!


I hear ya!


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## BitterrootGirl

OilnH2O said:


> Spring in Montana - at least in Missoula - has been really late. This is the latest bud-break since I've planted the vineyard and things are still slow. First 70* days were in the last week.
> The first picture is Marachal Foch, second is Leon Millot, the third is Pinot Noir. My single edelweiss is bud-swell, none have broken as are my few vines of Reisling. It's going to be an interesting year!
> As I have said many times when people ask why I grow grapes in Montana, I smile and say, "I'm betting on global warming!" But, it seems like it has been pretty similar each year. We'll see how things catch up in the next few weeks.
> -Dave



Dave, I'm happy to hear your Pinot Noir survived this crazy winter! Did all your vines survive?


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## OilnH2O

*MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE PICKED YESTERDAY.... *




Watched our weather system move in - the snow was forecast to start tonight - Sunday night - not Sunday morning and since we had high winds yesterday I thought I'd have a window to pick them cold, and dry this morning. All ready for a great cold soak start!
Nope! I was just trying to get the brix up a little higher. Reds are highs of 21, averaging about 18 1/2 in my sample. You can't see it in this picture but the snow is light and fine - only a half inch on my deck rail - which is the big white slash on the lower right of this picture. Of course MontanaRick (further north) may have far greater problems than this and BitterrootGirl (further south) may be sipping cocoa by the fire!
As everyone who has tried to produce a crop has said before, "_It is what it is...."_


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## montanarick

Well... We were planning a Harvest Fest for next Sunday ( Oct. 6th) but alas Mother Nature has intervened. While the temperature logger in the vineyard showed that it got down to 28°for an hour or so last night, the forecast is for lows down to 25°Monday night/Tuesday morning. Since, I don't see Brix improving between now and then, we've decided to pick today and keep the grapes on cold storage for a couple of days before crushing - that at least will take the pressure off the wines before the leaves fall. Brix was checked this morning with the following averages: Marquette - 20.3; Frontenac Blanc - 21.1; Frontenac Gris - 22.9; Petite Pearl - 16.3; Frontenac Noir - 23


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## sour_grapes

Oh, good luck all of you MT vintners. Keeping our fingers crossed.


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## ibglowin

I believe this was taken yesterday. Glacier Nat Park.........


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## OilnH2O

Yeah - I saw that Mike! I think that was taken in the Ranger housing area at St. Mary on the east side of the divide - much worse over there.
We've mostly stopped at an inch - inch-plus! It's 38* but we are still in the middle of the storm. So... "we'll see!"


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## Sage

Wishing you good luck with the white stuff. I'm not sure how cold they'll stand in your area. Mine will handle down to 30 if it's brief.


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## Lwrightjs

ibglowin said:


> I believe this was taken yesterday. Glacier Nat Park.........


WHAT? We just had a pool party for our sons 4th birthday here in Houston!


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## Sage

You could have a pool party here too...... Not really sure I'd want to


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## OilnH2O

An _INDOOR_ pool, maybe....


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## bshef

At those temps, do you need internal cold storage? Good luck! Sounds like you guys could have great ice wines.


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## montanarick

Got all the Frontenac Blanc/Gris off the vines yesterday - pretty cold and gnarly exercise. Now getting ready to get back out there for more picking - at least the sun is shining now. Temp at 6:30 this AM was a balmy 24°


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## montanarick

All the beautiful green foliage that was there on Sunday is now gone. Only good thing is that it's now easier to see all the hanging clusters for picking - so much for ripening!


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## Sage

What brix did they get to?


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## montanarick

i'll post that info after all picked and crushed. see my post this past Sunday for Brixs done from individual berries


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## OilnH2O

I am about finished with fermentation - getting ready to add malolactic and then let them set for a few months. I think, Rick, I could have let them go through that first cold snap and give them about 10 more days - our weather was pretty good overnight her in MSO until a couple days ago.


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## montanarick

The cold snap quickly ended this year's growing season for us. All the reds are in MLF and will do Chromatographic test come this Friday to see where things stand. What little white are undergoing cold stabilization


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## OilnH2O

montanarick said:


> The cold snap quickly ended this year's growing season for us. All the reds are in MLF and will do Chromatographic test come this Friday to see where things stand. What little white are undergoing cold stabilization



That weekend completed the change in leaves from burned to brown - and mine have been inoculated with MLF too. Just watching and staying warm! 
_(For those who follow all this: Montana is a big state and what you may see in one place - like the pictures in Glacier from several weeks ago that IBGLOWIN posted above -- doesn't necessarily mean it's like that everywhere in the state. Yesterday we had scuddy and cold weather in the morning and even snow (flurries, but 36*) at the Griz-E. Washington game. But, by late afternoon it was sunny. BUT, the day before - Friday -- it was 70* and like a typical 'Indian Summer' fall day. MontanaRick and BitterrootGirl can have completely different experiences - the fun of living in Montana!)_


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## montanarick

I'll say! We played 18 holes on Friday with temps in low 70's. Woke up Saturday morning to 3" of new snow and temps never got above 38°


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## OilnH2O

April 24 and maybe the coldest April on record, statewide. Buds are swelling, but bud break is still awhile to come...


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## montanarick

Keep the faith - spring will be here sooner or later


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## ibglowin

Definitely later this year even in the souther tip of the Rockies......



montanarick said:


> Keep the faith - spring will be here sooner or later


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## OilnH2O

Finished mid-season pruning. Looking good with hot and dry weather - just irrigation right now but leaves look pretty healthy. Hoping for a good year (as we all are!)





Dave


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