# Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah



## mgmarty

Just planted 26 Baco's and 24 Seyval Blancs here in Utah. No life yet, and now I'm worrying about water. I drowned the he$l out of them when I planted last week. I flood irrigate. They look good. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## ibglowin

Any buds that look like they are starting to swell? What are your night time lows like? Soil temp? 

I see snow in the back ground!


----------



## mgmarty

*baco noir*

Night time lows on average are 50 degrees. There are a lot of buds that look like there swelling, but did when i planted them. My Pinot Gris in the same vineyard are leafing out. I do not know how tonget a soil temp, but would love to learn how.


----------



## mgmarty

I drowned them again tonight. Soil is very dry. We do live in a dessert state!


----------



## grapeman

They should begin to swell and open any time now. It can take 2-3 weeks for them to wake up and begin to grow. Remember they are dormant when you get them. Good luck and before you know it they will be nice and green.


----------



## ibglowin

Easiest way to do soil temp is with a digital probe of sorts. Something like this:






If your having nighttime lows of 50 and daytime highs in the 70-80 it won't be long. Keeping them a little wet is not a bad idea when they are tender and just getting going. I am guessing your soil is well drained sandy soil much like mine. 

Your site looks well prepared!


----------



## mgmarty

I have something like that I could use to get a soil temp. How deep? 
Actually my soil is heavy clay. One of the reasons I went with Baco Noir. Time will tell if that was a good choice.


----------



## OilnH2O

I'm anxious to see how you do - looks great - I'll be following your progress!


----------



## mgmarty

*Life!*

Ok, the Baco's are really coming to life. The Seyvals seem a little less enthusiastic. But its nice to see some growth! 
I bought my vines from double a and have not pruned them back. My question is should i do it now, cut them back to two nodes? Or just let them grow the first year? I have not given them any nitrogen, should i do it now? I really think i need to cut back on the water. I dont think Im past frost danger yet. 
Im anxious to get some wire strung and training vines to the wire!


----------



## ibglowin

Grapeman is the real vine expert here but I will add my $0.02. I would not fertilize until all danger of frost is over. Keep them watered but not overly so. Usually you let them go the first year and see where the dominant drunk is then trim everything back after you have selected it the next year. Pinch off any clusters form this year.


----------



## mgmarty

The Seyvals have very red buds. 




The Bacos grow like weeds.


----------



## mgmarty

Thanks ibglowin. I think that is what I will do. I might pick one or two and start training for the wire though. Just not cut anything back. Roger on the cluster thinning. That one I knew. None next year either I believe. 
BTW, I'm the dominant drunk in the vineyard, and I'm not going to be trimmed back. LOL


----------



## ibglowin

That soil looks as described! I would try and add some organic if you have not already started. Get some bags of potting soil and start working it in to each vine. They will thank you down the road for sure!


----------



## grapeman

I would prune back to one main shoot and leave 3 or 4 buds on that. Your vine has limited roots (although adequate). By only keeping a few buds, you get all the vine vigor in those few shoots and they grow large and healthy. If you leave all the vine to grow, you will get 40-50 less than vigorous shoots. The vines will grow either way, but you get a healthier start by just growing the few shoots. Total dry matter will be the same produced so the few shoots give you better choices at pruning next year. Some of the vines we planted last year grew 8 feet and are nice and large. That gave us great choices in which shoots to keep this year to form the trunks.


----------



## mgmarty

Ok. Its done. I cut them back as you said. They are really growing! There are buds everywhere, so I cut them back, and pinched off all the suckers. Theres just three or four buds on them. 
I guess now its time to get some bambo shoots. 
Thanks for your help.


----------



## saddlebronze

A couple of thoughts (Grapeman is the expert, but I have grown both Baco and Seyval) As soon as you see positive growth, cut back to one or two buds. On the fertilizer, I would not add Nitrogen unless a soil test indicates it. Over fertilizing a variety like Baco which is a prolific grower will lead to all tops and weak grapes for years. I simple soil test will tell you. Clay can be pretty deficient, but I pays to know for sure. Any garden center or university can do it for you.


----------



## mgmarty

That is what I thought, and why I asked the question. They grow like crazy and I plan to hold them back with good irrigation and very little fertilizer. They currently sure don't look like they need anything. 
Are Seyval as prolific? They currently don't seem to be, but it's early.


----------



## mgmarty

Oh, and yes, soil test will be done. Probably a little late on that.


----------



## mgmarty




----------



## mgmarty

Had some afternoon thunder storms. Nothing got wet. Sure was an electrical show!


----------



## mgmarty

You know another thing, no one from Utah has said anything.


----------



## ibglowin

mgmarty said:


> You know another thing, no one from Utah has said anything.



Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.....

Yea , you can count on one hand the people in the desert southwest on WMT!


----------



## mgmarty

Hell, I almost have vines!


----------



## mgmarty

Almost planted some Norton. This is really good wine! A little high in acid. Guess I should get to that, my Baco's are suppose to be as well.


----------



## OilnH2O

mgmarty said:


> You know another thing, no one from Utah has said anything.



Heck, *you* might be the only one between Mike and me!


----------



## mgmarty

Weeding, hoeing and irrigating all week. Hot and dry. Then I wake up this morning to rain. Over half an inch last night, and still raining. 
Vines are getting long enough now I can pinch off some of the clusters. Still don't know if I should throw down some nitrogen.


----------



## ibglowin

Send some our way! Did you amend your soil with any organic matter? I have been using Miracle Gro Bloom Buster. Low nitrogen but high phosphorus which promotes growth. Nitrogen makes things green so grape vines don't need all that much nitrogen normally.


----------



## mgmarty

I just figured out how to get my soil samples done. Vines are growing fine. Seyval Blanc is so feminine, compared to my Bacos. 




It's nice to see vines and not weeds, but damn this is a lot of work!


----------



## mgmarty

Need to post an update. I have all my end posts in. I now can run my bottom wire so I can stake my vines. They are getting tall, and it needs to be done. We have had plenty of rain and the post holes I dug were plenty muddy. 
I've been working in some compost and a simple 5-6-6 fertilizer.


----------



## mgmarty




----------



## grapeman

For VSP cut it just below the wire leaving a leaf near the cut. This will send a shoot growing both directions to form the future cordons.


----------



## mgmarty

I am so glad I found this group. I would just be guessing. 
So how far do I let the buds grow? Do I let all the laterals grow on the trunk?


----------



## mgmarty

ran some wire today






All three wires are up on the sixth row. 




Had to come up with a way to spool the cable. The friction brake worked well!


----------



## mgmarty

What a difference a few weeks make!


----------



## mgmarty

Oh, and Happy 4th of July!!


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good!


----------



## mgmarty

Crazy rain we have all been having. Don't know for sure, but maybe this is a good year to start a vineyard. 




This the pile of laterals I removed from my vineyard today. I didn't want to remove them, but I couldn't till between the rows anymore. I haven't watered in three weeks, and they call this a desert state.


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good. We have not had anywhere as much as you here at the house but its all around us each day it seems. Moisture is always welcome in the desert southwest!


----------



## mgmarty

I was going to rip these Pinot Gris vines out this fall if they did not do well this year. This is there third year and guess there going to stay. There doing well!


----------



## ibglowin

Third year, WOW!


----------



## grapeman

I see a small batch of pinot g coming up.


----------



## mgmarty

Now I see color! The Pinot Gris is in veriason! Put the netting on this morning. It's been 62 days since they flowered.


----------



## ibglowin

Beautiful clusters! You have access to a press?


----------



## mgmarty

Bought it this summer. It needs cleaned up, previous owner left it out side. No idea what I'm doing, but it's fun learning.


----------



## ibglowin

Wow that should do!


----------



## mgmarty

Cannot believe how they have grown in one month. They get hardly any water, and it's been very hot.


----------



## ibglowin

You must be doing something right!


----------



## mgmarty

Pruning is done. Seems really early, but the weather has been darn nice!


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## mgmarty

Bud break in Utah! Now I get to worry about frost. 


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## ibglowin

I am a week or so behind you. Yesterday's low was 21, this AM 34. Looks like a cool next 5-7 days with several fronts pushing through so hopefully they will all stay buttoned up for a week or two more. Be nice to hit May without any real push.


----------



## mgmarty

There pushing grapes. Holy cow!



Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## ibglowin

Very nice! Mine are starting since I pruned over the weekend. Hope the nice weather continues to hold!


----------



## peaches9324

Mgmarty what kind of wood did you use for your trellising? Your vineyard looks really nice!


----------



## mgmarty

I use pressure treated 4x4s from local Lowes. 


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## mgmarty

Is it crazy to be worried about vines that still show no sign of life this late? Maybe I'm just crazy!


----------



## ibglowin

I have 3 varieties and they all seem to break bud a little different and ripen at different times. Are they swelling/pushing at all? Scrape the bark and look for green wood. Brown is bad. I would think by now you should be seeing some swelling. I have lost a vine or two each year for no reason that I can tell except that these were all vines I ordered by mistake on grafted root stock. One by one they have been dying off after growing well for the first 2-3 years.


----------



## mgmarty

Pinot Gris have no place in Utah. Lost all six vines again this year. Searching for a good hybrid to replace them. A good blend with Seyval.


----------



## ibglowin

You need something "cold hardy" for sure. Chardonel, LaCrosse, St. Pepin, La Crescent. Whatever you like to drink profile wise.


----------



## OilnH2O

You mean that "stimulus" spending didn't work? Sounds like my bout with Pinot Noir!


----------



## mgmarty

Baco Noir on the left, Seyval on the right. Both planted last year. Baco really grows!


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good for sure!


----------



## mgmarty

Seyval Blanc. Vines are doing really well this year




Baco Noir



Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good, you better get those babies netted ASAP!


----------



## Pat57

Awesome ! your vines look great, congrats !


----------



## mgmarty

72 vines, 12 grape clusters. It's there second year and I picked all the clusters off a long time ago. Left a few just for fun. Yes the birds are loving them. Can't wait till next year. 


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


----------



## mgmarty

A little cherry wine to keep me busy through the winter.


----------



## mgmarty

February 13 in my vineyard. Tshirts on. The vines are starting to bud, and I have no idea what to do!?


----------



## ibglowin

62 here today. I am wearing shorts this afternoon. Sandhill Cranes are heading North everyday this week overhead. Stick a fork in Winter.


----------



## mgmarty

To prune, or not to prune? That is the question.


----------



## grapeman

I think I would panic! It just isn't spring yet and if those vines start growing............................

Oh well, might as well enjou the weather!
It was a balmy -5 today air temp with a nice stiff wind. Only got to -14F last night and will be around there tonight. You guys enjoy it!


----------



## ibglowin

We have been getting the precip, just not the BITTER cold like you guys in the NE. This week we got another 10" of snow in the mountains and ski areas but we got all rain down in the lower elevations (townsite). Supposed to get another round of snow on Monday. So moisture is good but temps are above normal for sure.


----------



## mgmarty

Pruned last week and ready for a crop. Will be putting in some Prairie Star were I tore out the Pinot Gris. Weather here is unbelievable. Hope it lasts.


----------



## oregondabbler

mgmarty said:


> View attachment 21409
> 
> Pruned last week and ready for a crop. Will be putting in some Prairie Star were I tore out the Pinot Gris. Weather here is unbelievable. Hope it lasts.



"Pruining is Done!" Three very tasty words indeed.

This is a great thread. Sorry to hear about the Pinot varieties going to the great vineyard in the sky. I'm interested in seeing how the new varieties you plant will do.

I'm just waiting for the time when the Phylloxera plague strikes my vineyard (Big Barn Vineyard). It was planted by the previous owner using simple un-cloned Vinifera varieties. The growers in my area (Willamette Valley, Oregon) tell me that its just a matter of time before it strikes and my vineyard is about the right age for those root lice to show up. I'm going to replant with hybrids when they show or maybe I'll steal a march on the little buggers and start replanting before they do. Posters in this sub-forum are giving me pointers for what to try.

This is all a long winded way to say that by documenting your experience with your varieties you are helping others.  

Thanks


----------



## mgmarty

This is all a long winded way to say that by documenting your experience with your varieties you are helping others.  

Thanks. There is practically no one here in Utah to help me. Without this site, I would be lost!


----------



## mgmarty

Bud break in Utah in March! Good Lord!


----------



## grapeman

That would sure have me worried! We had one year where spring arrived really early and it actually stayed warm, so good luck. Hope it goes well!


----------



## ibglowin

You are ahead of me. Even though we have had some nice days with 70 degree highs the lows have been around 32 most mornings. Things are still pretty dormant with not much swelling. This could be an early Spring without a late Spring frost. Keep your fingers crossed!


----------



## RedSun

I just pruned my first year vines the past weekend, just a few. They are still very dormant, no sign of spring. We still get night temp below freezing. I moved some of my over-wintered plants outside, then moved them inside the garage again for night protection.

I actually prefer the vines to stay dormant longer. So no spring damage if all possible.


----------



## oregondabbler

mgmarty said:


> View attachment 21483
> View attachment 21484
> 
> 
> Bud break in Utah in March! Good Lord!



Early bud break here too (Oregon). We are about 4-6 weeks ahead of schedule. Hail is in the forecast tomorrow, followed by the return of cold weather. Buckle up and keep your hands inside the car ladies and gentlemen, this roller coaster is going to give everybody a memorable ride.


----------



## RedSun

Any spray we can do to help reducing early spring cold damage? I think there should be some, but I do just do not know....


----------



## sour_grapes

RedSun said:


> Any spray we can do to help reducing early spring cold damage? I think there should be some, but I do just do not know....



You mean, like water? You do need to be careful, however, as spraying can make things worse if done incorrectly:



> Use of sprinklers can protect vines when temperatures fall to -3.9°C (25°F), if conditions are ideal. Water from the sprinklers supplies heat to the vine-water- atmosphere system. The heat is released as water cools to 0°C (32°F) and then freezes to ice. The most important factor in this situation is the heat of fusion (released as water freezes to ice). A gallon of water releases 300kcal (1200 BTU) of heat as it freezes. Water is also evaporating in the vine-water-atmosphere system. The evaporation of water causes a loss of 2300kcal (9000 BTU) per gallon. Therefore, to maintain a positive heat balance, more water must freeze than evaporates. This amount has been determined to be factor of 7.5 units of water or more for every unit of water that evaporates. This, along with a buffer for the humidity of the air and wind speed (factors which can increase the evaporation rate) is the basis for the sprinkler application rate used in the design of systems. The recommended application rate is 6.9 to 8.2 hectare-millimeters (0.11 to 0.13 acre-inches) per hour or a pumping capacity of 470 liters per minute per hectare (50 gallons per minute per acre).



See also: http://biomet.ucdavis.edu/frostprotection/Principles%20of%20Frost%20Protection/FP005.html


----------



## RedSun

Spraying something is just some idea came to my mind. I did not even know what to spray. Originally I think was thinking of some type of oil, coating the new growth with a wax like thin layer of protection. At least that is better than having the buds exposed. I've never tried and I do not know if it works....


----------



## grapeman

There are several products out there that can be sprayed onto vines to supposedly protect them from frost. I don't even remember their names because I don't use them. I only have anecdotal heresay about their use. Some people swear they work and yet I know of at least one individual that says he lost all the vines sprayed with the product he used and yet the ones he ran out of spray before treating them were unharmed. I don't think I would worry too much about it yet as your vines are so young. If they freeze you won't lose a crop because they shouldn't be bearing yet anyways.


----------



## mgmarty

I guess I have more to learn about frost. It was below freezing for 3 hours, and got as low as 25. There was hardly any damage done.


----------



## grapeman

Count your blessings in a couple days. Sometimes the damage shows up after a few days. If no damage then, hopefully you are past the worst.


----------



## RedSun

Yes, some folks use sprays. It is called "anti-desiccant" spray. Here is some info, and there should be plenty of it:

https://extension.umass.edu/landscape/news/qa-protecting-landscape-plants-winter

Someone uses it with brambles and says it is effective to protect the canes during winter. Not sure about protecting spring buds...


----------



## mgmarty

Time for an update. Everything is looking good, except for the first row that got hit with 2-4-D. 


I ordered the Tapener yesterday. I hope it makes this work easier!!




Still flowering, and it smells wonderful.


----------



## mgmarty

First thing I want to say, tapener gun is a god send!


----------



## mgmarty

Second, I'm cluster thinning, leaf pulling, spraying son of a *****! God! I had no idea how much work this would be! Love every minute. I drink wine in the evening in my vineyard! I feel like Noah!


----------



## ibglowin

What are you spraying for?


----------



## mgmarty

I'm experimenting with one row, Roundup, for weeds.


----------



## ibglowin

Gotcha, I was wondering if you had any disease pressure. None here but we are having one of the wettest Summers on record so I am keeping my eyes on the vines each day.


----------



## mgmarty

So the Baco's this morning were at 25' brix! Holy crap, it's still August!


----------



## ibglowin

Early harvest all over the west this year!


----------



## OilnH2O

When we were in Washington and Oregon last week they said they were all a minimum of 3 weeks ahead - and several were already picking!


----------



## mgmarty

Harvested Seyval Blanc this morning. 24' brix. 3.5 ph. Was a great morning! 214 pounds of grapes. Little over 10 gallons from 25 vines.


----------



## grapeman

I bet that was the most fun you have had working in quite a while. Way to go. Good luck with the Baco also.


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good!


----------



## OilnH2O

Wow - great amount - if I get over 100 pounds from my vines I'm happy! Looking good!


----------



## mgmarty

So the Bacos were at 27' brix and 3.35 ph. Did I let them go to far?


----------



## ibglowin

You planning on doing MLF? That would drive the pH up and thus acid TA down.


----------



## mgmarty

Yes. I was planning an MLF.


----------



## mgmarty

164 lbs! Brix 26.8. PH 3.57. I'm very happy!


----------



## ibglowin

Awesome. Congrats. Great numbers!


----------



## OilnH2O

Even MORE than awesome! AWESOME! And like Mike says, great numbers. My highest brix is at 26, but many are still in low 20s and a few even just under. The longer I can let them hang, the more they will get like yours! 

Of course... the more they feed the yellow jackets, too!


----------



## mgmarty

Pressed after ten days on the skins. 9' brix. 


That's a 7 1/2 gallon carboy, and a 5 gallon. 


The next day I racked off the gross lees for 10 gallons. Then added my ML culture.


----------



## ibglowin

Looks good! How did you determine brix? If you used a refractometer then the results will be off due to alcohol.


----------



## OilnH2O

ibglowin said:


> Looks good! How did you determine brix? If you used a refractometer then the results will be off due to alcohol.



Mike is always giving _you more to think abou_t... he's always: 

(I mean that _most respectfully_! He knows the chemistry and the numbers!")

Dave


----------



## mgmarty

I did not know that! Well I'm just trying to figure out if it's finished. It is now.


----------



## grapeman

I just drop a hydrometer in the fermenter and see what the SG is. If your fermenter is not deep enough then just fill a test jar deep enough to read it. Once fermentation begins to create alcohol the refractomer will not give a direct reading but there are charts and formulas to figure out the reading if you want to go that way.


----------



## RedRockGirl

I wanted to stick my head into this thread and say hi from a fellow Utah wine maker. I live in a small town outside of st George.


----------



## mgmarty

*Pruning is done!*

Finished pruning the vineyard yesterday, and got blisters on my fingers from the shears to prove it! It appears we are going to have a repeat of last year with an early spring. The Baco's were bleeding pretty bad after the cutting. Still no sign of bud swelling, so that puts us off better than last year.


----------



## Maplebacon

Hey there folks, have lurked on and off for a while and decided to register and say hi from Heber City. 

I am seriously jealous of those 3rd year pictures. The mule deer decimate any progress I make up here. If I can get rid of the 1/8th acre of cobblestone piles I will attempt a PROPER planting. I don't suppose anyone has cuttings left over that do well in this climate?



edit: Now let me tell you about the mole explosion this year...


----------



## mgmarty

Seyval Blanc 2016 is in the fermenter! I have been so busy with work, I had to just get it done.


----------



## mgmarty

291 pounds of grapes from 21 vines. I harvested earlier this year, last years vintage was just to big. I tried to make a Chardonnay. This year I'm trying fora a lighter wine. 21.5' Brix. 3.4 PH


----------



## mgmarty

It's fermenting away now at 55'.


----------



## mgmarty

Well the season has begun here in Utah. My Baco has already pushed buds, and have been frozen back. Im starting to think that is just how its going to be each spring. The Prairie Star I planted last year are pushing buds now too, and my fingers are crossed they don't get hit with frost. Seyval Blanc is still sleeping. Seyval is perfect for around here, they have so far never been hit with frost.


----------



## mgmarty

Crap! 30 degrees this morning for a couple hours. I'll survey the damage in a day or two.


----------



## mgmarty

Everything is looking good, and knock on wood, I think we're past the frost danger.


----------



## mgmarty

I think spring is finally here. Enjoying the warmth.


----------



## Obbnw

Bump....

MGmarty - how is it going this year? I'm in SLC near the mouth of parleys canyon. Year 3. I have Tempranillo and Malbecs. The Malbecs seem to be doing better. Having powdery mildew issues on the Tempranillo. I found this thread searching for Baco Noir info. I am looking to add some more vines and am wondering about varieties. Any additional insights on your setup?


----------



## mgmarty

Grapes are doing well. I’ve had a real tough time with people spraying herbicide that wilts my vines. I have planted a few more whites, Prairie Star and Chardenelle, all seem to be doing well. If you plant vinifera you will have to spray. Downy mildew is terrible on the one Chardonnay vine I have. 
That all being said, I have been renting my home and vineyard out the past three years, I have moved to California to finish my career as an air traffic controller. I will be back in two years.


----------



## Obbnw

I went back and forth on whether to go vinifera or hybrid. The Baco Noir was on my short list. Did Tempranillo because I like cheap spanish wine and it sounded like it was a shorter season grape. The Malbec was chosen since I think our climate is similar to Argentina's wine region and I have a warm microclimate along a retaining wall. I thought the Malbec was the risky choice. I saw something that made me think the Baco Noir wouldn't tolerate the heat we get. Glad to hear yours worked out. I have room for about 10 more vines and may plant the Baco Noir next year. The Malbecs are doing great, as I said the Tempranillo has some powdery mildew - not too bad considering I wasn't trying to control it. I'll have to plan on controlling it earlier next year. I think I have the mildew under control for now.

Hopefully you don't miss Utah much - I'm pondering a few out of state projects before I retire - do you fly back occasionally and take care of your vines or do you have someone else take care of them? I'd be disappointed to leave, rent the house, and come back to dead vines in a couple of years.


----------



## mgmarty

Glad to hear your vines like Utah. Baco Noir grows like crazy. I planted them because of the clay soil I have. I hedge them and they make good red wine. Yes I fly back in spring and do the pruning. They are well established but I wish they could get better care. Of course no one loves them like I do.


----------



## mgmarty

So I'm about to retire and take over my vineyard in Utah again. Baco has suffered terribly in my absence. My intention is to rip them up and replace them. My daughter is now involved and we have had some lengthy discussions as to what variety to replace them with. I believe we will add another row as well to the back of the property. The varieties under consideration are, Cab Franc, Marechal Foch, Grenache and Pinot Noir. I may just plant a row of each and see how things go. 
Now the whites are another story. I made a quick white wine with a field blend this year. I would say, 75% Seyval, 20% Chardonelle and 5% Prairie Star. So far the wine is stunning! It's hard as hell to stay out of it, leave some to bottle! I won't be making any changes there and look forward to pruning and managing them for a better harvest next year. 

I'm still working in California, (I rent in Livermore), and commute from my home in Utah. I spend a ton of time in Lodi with the fantastic Zins that region produces. I will be trying to source some grapes this spring/summer before I retire to take to Utah. I have noticed a couple people on here from the area and I will try and speak to a few of you. 

There also are a few start up wineries in the Salt Lake Valley. I will be speaking with one of them about the crazy taxes and laws Utah has for boutique wineries. I'm still thinking about a commercial winery. Might be fun in retirement, as long as it didn't turn into a job. 

Cheers my friends, Its good to be back. Happy New Year!
Marty.


----------



## ibglowin

Good luck in all your post retirement endeavors Marty!


----------



## mgmarty

Bacos are gone. I planted 12 Foch, 12 Cab Franc, and 12 Pinot Noir n there place.
Very difficult to rip out vines you planted. But, crown gall was eliminating them at a rapid rate.


----------

