# 2017 in the vineyard



## Johny99

I thought it would be interesting to have a "year in the" thread for the vineyards, large and small. I believe we have a pretty good cross section of climates, and most surely approaches. So, perhaps weekly posting of what is going on in your vineyard? Pictures of course are extra cool.

For this week, my buds are just beginning to swell. I'm still not sure how much winter kill I'll have so I've left extra buds and on a few vines, full shoots in case I have to replace a cordon or in a couple cases, maybe a trunk.

So, y'all growers - how about you?


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## Stressbaby

This is my first vineyard year. I prepped last fall and installed the trellises. A couple of weeks ago I dug the holes with a small backhoe. We planted last weekend but not without a little drama.

My dad drove down from Detroit on Thursday, and almost the same hour, the plants from Double A arrived. The plan was to plant Friday and Saturday. Thursday night was restless for me and by Friday morning I was clearly unwell. We went out and planted 2 vines before I had to quit. I worsened, wound up in the ER, and a couple of hours later I was in the OR getting my appendix out.

So Saturday I was discharged but of course in no shape yet to do any shovel work. Friends and family pitched in and we got the 126 vines planted.

Some pics...


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## Boatboy24

Wow! Hope you're feeling better.


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## Johny99

Glad they caught it in time and you had a crew on hand.


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## mainshipfred

Wow, that was a real kick in the butt. I think you owe those folks some wine. But then again they maybe they are paying you back for all the wine you gave them.


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## Stressbaby

Johny99 said:


> Glad they caught it in time and you had a crew on hand.



Yes, thanks.



Boatboy24 said:


> Wow! Hope you're feeling better.



Much better, thanks.



mainshipfred said:


> Wow, that was a real kick in the butt. I think you owe those folks some wine. But then again they maybe they are paying you back for all the wine you gave them.



Yes, they've all been drinking my wine for a few years. I think they still view their contribution as an investment if you know what I mean.


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## mainshipfred

Stressbaby said:


> Yes, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Much better, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they've all been drinking my wine for a few years. I think they still view their contribution as an investment if you know what I mean.



Good friends and wise people!


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## sour_grapes

My goodness! I am glad they caught it in time and that you are doing well. What a unfortunate turn of events. Glad it turned out okay.


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## ColemanM

Glad you are ok. Great to have helpers for such an arduous task.


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## Johny99

*May Day, bud break!*

Well we grape workers had a March for union solidarity. Pretty short since it was me and the dog. 

Nice to get out and look things over. I call it bud break. Some tiny leaves, but on the way. Looks like my fears of winter kill were unfounded, so the second pruning will happen this weekend. 

The cuttings I set to root in the garage are looking fine. I rolled them out for some sun over the weekend but we are still in the low 40s at night so they will sleep in the garage for the next couple of weeks. The cuttings are to fill in where I lost vines previously or fill out a row. 

Supposed to be 80 by Thursday  whoopee! About time it warmed up.


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## BlueStimulator

Johny99 said:


> Well we grape workers had a March for union solidarity. Pretty short since it was me and the dog.



Stick it to the man, be sure to make sure you post your grievances with the owner. I know they don't listen but you will feel better::::


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## BlueStimulator

Here is what is going on in Yakima


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## BlueStimulator

One more, I too will be pruning the Spurs back in a week or two. I was also worried about winter kill and am still learning how to prune


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## FreddyC

I have a facebook page for my small family vineyard. I just posted a video here: 
https://www.facebook.com/CarboneFamilyVineyard/?fref=nf


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## Boatboy24

FreddyC said:


> I have a facebook page for my small family vineyard. I just posted a video here:
> https://www.facebook.com/CarboneFamilyVineyard/?fref=nf



Following. 

Here's my page. Haven't updated in a while - I need to get back on it.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010119555759


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## Johny99

FreddyC said:


> I have a facebook page for my small family vineyard. I just posted a video here:
> https://www.facebook.com/CarboneFamilyVineyard/?fref=nf



Really nice Freddy


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## balatonwine

This is an interesting topic. Hope it gets frequent updates.

Doing something similar with my "this week in the vineyard" series.


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> The cuttings I set to root in the garage are looking fine.



Yes, they do look fine indeed. Very nice.

Side note: Must be nice to grow self rooted vines. I have read Washington does not have a significant phylloxera issue, unlike so many other regions (like mine) that need to use grafted rootstock.


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## Johny99

balatonwine said:


> This is an interesting topic. Hope it gets frequent updates.
> 
> Doing something similar with my "this week in the vineyard" series.



Nice site, now a favorite!


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> Nice site, now a favorite!



Thank you kindly.


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## Johny99

*May 21*

Upper and lower vineyards, second pruning done and de-suckered. I even got the upper vineyard weeded. Lower is about 600 vines and the upper ~300. 

Shoots are 4-8 inches on all but the petit sirah. It is just leafing out. It is usually a bit slower, but markedly this year. Perhaps due to the cool spring? I'm giving the upper 3 hours of water tonight and I'll do the same for the lower tomorrow. One gal/hour droppers. Even though it has been a wet spring, the top six inches of soil are dry. As I'm going to be gone the next two weeks, just safety. I dint want to stress before berry set. 

Leaf hoppers are on the top of the upper vineyard where the alfalfa is deepest. I'm going to release 1000 lady bugs and green lacewings tonight after sundown. Trying a biological control first.


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## Johny99

Well two weeks away from home and life goes on. I went to visit my 85 year old mom and my 89 year old dad, then had foot surgery so I've been neglecting the vineyard. It was in the 90s while I was gone but has cooled off. Shoots continue to grow, 12-18 inches. Some have reached the first wire. Flower buds are well set, and best of all, no leafhoppers! 

I do need to mow though.


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## NorCal

Nice work Johny


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## balatonwine

Love ladybugs in my garden and on my roses. 

Come harvest time in the vineyard they can be a problem. Just a few hidden in clusters at crush/press can result in ladybug taint in the wine. 

One year here they became a pest themselves, as they were everywhere. Quite tedious work that year to remove them from the grapes before crushing.


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## Johny99

Bloom is just starting. Most vines have reached the upper wires, lots of shoots to tuck. A couple of cordons, one Sangiovese and a Sauvignon Blanc have shoots only 4-6 inches. Look healthy, just way behind. I wonder if they are second or third buds. I guess I'll see if they have cluster. 

did get the mowing done at least


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## Stressbaby

You said vineyards large and small...here is small.

My vines have been in the ground now about 8 weeks. May be hard to see here but this is Foch and Frontenac on the right, all but one vine in this row up and out of the grow tubes. Traminette is the row to the left and the closeup. My Nortons are behind, and I'm wondering if it is a matter of harder to root = less developed root systems on shipping = slower growth year 1.


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## Johny99

@stressbaby. Nice flat ground. Look like they are up to the fruiting wire already. I'm impressed. Are they own rooted or grafted. Different rootstocks in the grafted case maybe?


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## Stressbaby

@Johny99,
Everything I have is on its own rootstock with the exception of my 10 Chardonel, which are growing as well as any of the rest.


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## padolin

Here is my small vineyard in WV. These are Valvin Muscat, NY Muscat, Chambourcin, Ives and traminette.


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## padolin

sorry they are sideways...


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## Stressbaby

I like the signs!


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## Johny99

Stressbaby said:


> I like the signs!



Me too. Make my cattle ear tags look lame


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## BlueStimulator

Here is an update in YAKIMA

Just about one year old today

I guess my picture privileges have been revoked 

I do have some pics I'd like to post but here is the message I get

vBulletin Message
BlueStimulator, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.


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## sour_grapes

BlueStim: did you try to post, then alter anything? I get that message occasionally, but only when I try to alter the pictures I posted using the "Manage Attachments" box. If I just "do it right" the first time, it works. Maybe you could try again?


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## BlueStimulator

One year old almost exactly, planted last mid June Viognier


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## BlueStimulator

Looks like I have some pruning this weekend 4 year old Viognier


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## BlueStimulator

The Red grapes may need some pruning also I may open up the bottom leaves 

Weird same message as above but it allowed me to post two pics


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## Johny99

Way too neat Jason::

I have shoots to tuck, suckers to strip and a sick wife. Good thing the grapes don't care! The birds have started taking cherries, just to remind me I need to net in a month.


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## BlueStimulator

John they are even more neat now. :::: I pruned them this weekend. A sick wife is no fun at all. I still need to cluster thin too. Do you remove the bottom leaves on your reds or just let them be? Oh and remember I only have 20 (3 year old vines) and 6 (1year old vines). I don't have a real vineyard like you. I still need to get up and see your set up. 

On a fun note I racked and bulk blended my Cutthroat Cabernet. I took a bottle of the left over to family dinner and a some even liked the 9 month old vintage. Here is what the blend was

3 gallons of Cab Sav
2 gallons of Petie Verdot
1.5 gallons of Cab Franc

It is lighter than a full Cab but I think I need to let sit on the skins a few days longer to get more color and flavor. It may even be drinkable some day, next step is to bottle and create my labels

The Viognier is quite spicy and I think where I planted the vines by a basalt rock wall gets to hot. The wine in the 5 gallon carboy looks a bit brown so I think I have had some oxidation at some point.

I guess that is the kind of mistakes a newbie makes


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## Johny99

BlueStimulator said:


> John they are even more neat now. :::: I pruned them this weekend. A sick wife is no fun at all. I still need to cluster thin too. Do you remove the bottom leaves on your reds or just let them be? Oh and remember I only have 20 (3 year old vines) and 6 (1year old vines). I don't have a real vineyard like you. I still need to get up and see your set up.
> 
> On a fun note I racked and bulk blended my Cutthroat Cabernet. I took a bottle of the left over to family dinner and a some even liked the 9 month old vintage. Here is what the blend was
> 
> 3 gallons of Cab Sav
> 2 gallons of Petie Verdot
> 1.5 gallons of Cab Franc
> 
> It is lighter than a full Cab but I think I need to let sit on the skins a few days longer to get more color and flavor. It may even be drinkable some day, next step is to bottle and create my labels
> 
> The Viognier is quite spicy and I think where I planted the vines by a basalt rock wall gets to hot. The wine in the 5 gallon carboy looks a bit brown so I think I have had some oxidation at some point.
> 
> I guess that is the kind of mistakes a newbie makes



Not mistakes, but experience. I'd like to get together and compare our Viognier some time. That is one where I really don't know what I'm doing. 

I like the cs, pv, cf blend. Cf tends to be lighter but the pv is a powerful counterpart. In 15 I did a field blend of cs, pv, merlot, and cf. getting tasty now. I need to bottle it before fall to make room

I pluck some basel leaves, but not too much, laziness I suppose. My rows run east west, I know not ideal but the slope goes that way and is 20-30 degrees. Anyway, a couple of local vineyards I've helped at to learn, pull leaves in the fruiting zone for the reds, on the east side only. One cited sunlight into wine, which is a good read if you get geeky enough

I tucked two rows of shoots and suckered real quick last night. Only 14 rows to go! Leafhoppers are moderate, not sure when the systemic should kick in. We'll see I guess. 

It is finally getting hot again up here, hit 90 yesterday and today. Had our first fire, lightening this afternoon near one of our Dams. Nobody lives close so not a big worry, yet. 

For y'all out west, be careful this weekend, it was wet, but this heat has dried it all out. ::::::


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## BlueStimulator

As I was headed into Mattawa today at 4 pm I saw some lighting about Wanapum Dam. You are corrtect grasses are tall but really dry now. Tonight I put out some lady bugs to keep any pests down, I haven't seen much but figured I'd try to stay on top of it this year.


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## Johny99

BlueStimulator said:


> As I was headed into Mattawa today at 4 pm I saw some lighting about Wanapum Dam. You are corrtect grasses are tall but really dry now. Tonight I put out some lady bugs to keep any pests down, I haven't seen much but figured I'd try to stay on top of it this year.



Our fire is at Rock Island. Burning in dry grass and brush but over 4500 acres. 80 homes on level 2 evacuation. 

Anyway, good idea on lady bugs. I'll pick up some more and some lacewings. Leafhoppers are there but not too bad. I have two teenagers lined up to tuck shoots among other work this weekend. We call it our stay in school program


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## Johny99

Six rows with shoots tucked, 12 to go. It is taking about 30 minutes a row. I know that doing it well now saves a ton of work in netting, which will have to be done in about a month. Some of the shoots are 6+ feet long. 

Leafhoppers are there but not too bad, yet. Berry set looks real good. I'm thinking I'll need to drop some fruit before netting. 

I did give them 10 hours of water. It has been in the 90s for a few days and will be for the next week. Tendrils still look good but I believe it is good for the grapes to have a good drink after set. WSU research indicates water stress is most beneficial after verasion.

These are Syrah. And yes, I wish I knew how to make the pictures right side up


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## Stressbaby

Very nice, John.
Here are some of my vines. Traminette is my best grower but was delivered with the best roots. Norton quite the opposite, most of Norton is barely out of the grow tube.
Pic 1 is Traminette and Chardonel. Pic 2 is Vidal Blanc.


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> I wish I knew how to make the pictures right side up



No worries. On a tablet or phone, just a turn makes them right. And for those on a desktop or laptop, we still "get it". 

P.S. When do you you generally get berry touch in your region?


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## Johny99

balatonwine said:


> No worries. On a tablet or phone, just a turn makes them right. And for those on a desktop or laptop, we still "get it".
> 
> P.S. When do you you generally get berry touch in your region?



Nice @stressbaby. How are you going to train them?

Berry touch, not a term I was familiar with @balatonwine. I'll watch and let you know. We are about normal this year. The last two years were early, with berry set the 3rd week of June.


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## Stressbaby

Johny99 said:


> Nice @stressbaby. How are you going to train them?



TWC is the plan, that is how everyone around here does it.


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> Berry touch



Some people like to, in detail, monitor the wine making process in their caboy. I do the same in the vineyard.


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## Johny99

balatonwine said:


> Some people like to, in detail, monitor the wine making process in their caboy. I do the same in the vineyard. ]



I like that. I'm still trying to get into the vineyard once a day, life keeps intervening. 

I do like you week in the vineyard on your website. It is interesting to compare where you are versus mine. We are just about the same latitude.


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> It is interesting to compare where you are versus mine. We are just about the same latitude.



I agree.

For what it is worth, everything here is about a week earlier than "normal". For example, varaison already started on some vines (the Turán / Agria) this week; that "normally" wouldn't happen until mid July.


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## Johny99

My, my busy these days. I have "berry touch" on most, some reds are lagging. I watered again today. The lower vineyard was looking a bit stressed- tendrils terminat ed and some droop in the pistoles. Not a good time to water stress with the berries swelling. 

The leafhoppers have taken hold in the more vigorous vines. I sprayed 5 rows with Pyritiens before I ran out. Only place open had Beem oil, so I bought it. Sprayed 10 more rows Friday. Today both seem to have been equally. Effective, so I finished out spraying with the Naeem oil. Green lacewings eggs on order!

Most vines are looking great, particularly the Syrah. Both cabs are being particularly vigorous while the Sangiovese which I normally have to hedge, is slower. 

Overall health looks great, and the stressed vines in the lower vineyard are 4 years this year. I'm guessing their roots are not as deep. We have been in the 90s most of the last two weeks. 

Still need to tuck shoots and sucker a few rows, then I need to look at leaf pulling. Listened to a podcast today while spraying that argued if you don't do you canopy management by verasion +10-15 days, you are wasting your time. 

I just hope my schedule allows me to net


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## mainshipfred

Sometimes I get jealous of you guys that grow your own grapes. But when I see the work it takes I don't think I would have time for it.


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## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> Sometimes I get jealous of you guys that grow your own grapes. But when I see the work it takes I don't think I would have time for it.



Just give up your day job and grow vines and have fun on your boat...you only live on this earth once (I think).


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## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> Just give up your day job and grow vines and have fun on your boat...you only live on this earth once (I think).



Your right, and if you remember I recently got fired.


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## balatonwine

ceeaton said:


> you only live on this earth once (I think).



I like to think that reincarnation exists. And if you do everything right, in your next life you get to own a vineyard and a winery.


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## padolin

Things here in WV are going well. I had a brief scare with PM and i think ive made my way through that. 

The Ives and Chambourcin have started verasion and are looking good.

This week im netting and putting in the electric to keep the coons away!


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## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> Your right, and if you remember I recently got fired.


I thought you were your own boss??


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## Ajmassa

ceeaton said:


> I thought you were your own boss??




That shows just how serious it was. Early is on time. On time is late. No exceptions.


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## Johny99

padolin said:


> Things here in WV are going well. I had a brief scare with PM and i think ive made my way through that.
> 
> The Ives and Chambourcin have started verasion and are looking good.
> 
> This week im netting and putting in the electric to keep the coons away!



Glad I don't have to worry about coons, birds are bad enough


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## Johny99

I put out 10000 green lacewings eggs on Friday night after sundown. Checking on them yesterday morning, I found 2 right off the bat. Yes that blurry thing is one. Of course this other guy seems to hang out on the deck near the vineyard. I hope he didn't get the other 9,998.


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## Boatboy24

That looks like a small bearded dragon.


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## KevinL

Taken today!

We're chugging along. Newest rows are growing well, and the 2 year old ones are out of control. I left a lot of fruit on the Frontenac (the row that makes up the background) even though I'm only in the second year on them. I had done some research, and came upon a study about increasing yield per acre (But decreasing yield per vine) by tightening up the spacing. So I don't need that much growth from each vine to fill up the trellis.

I knew Frontenac was really vigorous, so to try and control the second year vigor I figured I'd let the fruit stay on the vine to slow things down. No real effect on the growth I think, but at least I'll get some grapes out of it. Next year I anticipate they're going to be a bear to try and control. I'll have to stay on top of them.

Anyway, Veraison on the Frontenac, and a shot of the newer planting (I've got the Itasca in the grow tubes in the foreground.)


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## balatonwine

KevinL said:


> came upon a study about increasing yield per acre (But decreasing yield per vine) by tightening up the spacing.



Yield per acre should be balanced with fruit quality and vine health. The goal is to find the sweet spot where all three are best served. 

Overcropping to control vigor on vines planted too close may weaken the vine. Planting too closely also may force over pruning which can actually cause an increase in vigor and vegetative growth, potentially further shading fruit, decreasing quality, and weakening the vine.

There are generally recommended planting distances, but there is certainly a lot of debate on "best" planting distances that differ from those recommendations. And those "best" distances can differ between different sites. So "best" distances might only be found via trial and error over many years at each site. 

So, in brief, one study should not be taken as definitive.


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## KevinL

Certainly. I've got another row with wider spacing, and some vines where I culled the crop entirely. A little trial and error should give me plenty of information at the end. Leaving a partial crop on in this year seems to have no overall effect on the vigor (The cropless vines vs the cropped ones are both growing with plenty of vigor.). Can't say I'll repeat this for the newest plantings, simply because I don't notice any effect.

No discernible difference in health right now, although I imagine I may see some differences next year, especially as I start measuring the quality of the fruit between the different variables.

It's as unscientific as can be at the end of the day, because of the different levels of shade throughout the vineyard due to the neighbor's trees. 

After all of my trial and error (emphasis on the error), ideally I'll discover that I have several rows of vines that are planted, trellised and managed sub-optimally for my area and climate. It'll be glorious.


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## Johny99

Really quiet. Tucked shoots and pulled suckers the last couple of weeks. It has been hot, ~95-100, and smokey. No sign of verasion and the reds mostly are still the size of small peas. I'll water again this week. 

Our friends in BC have it bad, but the smoke arrived this week. Believe it or not the Cascades are right behind town, just can't see 'em. 

Really, they should be right there!


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> No sign of verasion and the reds mostly are still the size of small peas.



My Welschriesling this year has similarly not started veraison yet. Might have a late harvest on that this year.

Meanwhile my Turán (aka Agria) is already at 19 brix. My earliest harvest was on August 26th in 2015. This year's Turán is heading to break that record.

Weird.



Johny99 said:


> Believe it or not the Cascades are right behind town, just can't see 'em.



That takes me back a few years. Looks like a "normal" summer day in LA when I was a kid, looking at the San Gabriel Mountains.....


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## Stressbaby

Here's an update from central Missouri. These vines went in this spring. They are trained to TWC. Many of the vines have cordons 3-4 feet in length with small spurs as you can see in the pics. Mostly this is Traminette and Vidal. The Norton, Chambourcin and others aren't quite as far along. 

My question is, can or should I get any grapes next year from these vines which have the longer cordons? Or should I remove all the grapes in the second year per the standard recommendation?


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## Johny99

Looking good stressbaby. I'd pinch them all off again next year. I've read those that say you can leave grapes on any that lignify, but I've also read those that say it stunts the vine in the long run. So, in the end I just waited till the third leaf as the old Jewish law says. Worked for me but I'm half a continent away from you and I'd say my site is nowhere near as vigorous as yours. 

A note, as I mowed tonight I see the Malbec and Merlot have started verasion. Weird, and a good week or more earlier than I've ever seen. I guess it is time to start checking sugars and putting on nets


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## balatonwine

Stressbaby said:


> My question is, can or should I get any grapes next year from these vines which have the longer cordons? Or should I remove all the grapes in the second year per the standard recommendation?



You can think of growing vines like a couch potato training for a monthly marathon. 

Trying to do a marathon after only a month of training will not only result in very poor performance in that first marathon, but will result in much more post marathon fatigue which will result in poorer performance in marathons for months to come. While if one can train for two, or even three months to get really into shape one can do very well in their first and all subsequent marathons. 

Similarly, new vines need to set down a good root system capable of storing and supplying enough energy and nutrients to provide a reliable yearly crop without weakening the vines. So it is prudent to give vines at _least_ two years to develop a root system before stressing the plant by making if grow fruit. And growing fruit is a stress, because the vine is having to balance what amount of its energy it has to put into growing, energy storage, or fruit development. By delaying asking the vine to produce fruit, the stronger and healthier the vine will be in the long term.


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## Johny99

Started netting today. Tempranillo, merlot and Malbec have all started verasion. I cut out two more Tempranillo vines. I don't know what they have, I suspect leafroll although they came from a certified vineyard. Anyway, nine in a row had it, so they are gone. 

I dropped some clusters on the cab sauv, I had more than I needed last year so I'll see what a lower yield does. I pulled leaves on the north side of the whites as well. Temperature finally dropped and with a high go 80 and the smoke gone, it was a good day to be in the vineyard. 

picture is how the nets go on. Only two of us today, so a bit more work.


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## Johny99

Couple more pics.


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> picture is how the nets go on



I liked your post for the photo of your PVC netting tool.

Not because you had to pull vines... that is sad.


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## BlueStimulator

Living and learning this year lost my Cab S, Petite V and Can Franc to powdery mildew. I guess I will need to figure out what to spray for that next year. The good news is my vio looks good and I will have another small row coming into production for the fall of 2018.


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## Masbustelo

Stressbaby I would say that there seems to be a world of difference regarding vigor of the European origin grapes vs the American hybrids grown in the U.S. Midwest. Most of the "rules of thumb" and printed advice available references the European varieties. Regarding vigor, I see pictures of vines from well established vineyards in California and Oregon that bear no semblance to the Hybrids that I am growing. The plants are much smaller and contained. It seems that your vines are spaced relatively close together and have developed quite well. I would caution that if you don't allow a small crop next year (to limit vigor) that you will end up with a mass of overgrown foliage. This has been my experience. It seems that comparing the European varieties with grafted root stock to Midwestern hybrids is almost an apples and oranges comparison. Note the difference in the photos that Johnny99 (state of Washington) posted and compare them with yours. Note the difference both of soils, vines and the semi-arid climate.


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## Stressbaby

Masbustelo said:


> Stressbaby I would say that there seems to be a world of difference regarding vigor of the European origin grapes vs the American hybrids grown in the U.S. Midwest. Most of the "rules of thumb" and printed advice available references the European varieties. Regarding vigor, I see pictures of vines from well established vineyards in California and Oregon that bear no semblance to the Hybrids that I am growing. The plants are much smaller and contained. It seems that your vines are spaced relatively close together and have developed quite well. I would caution that if you don't allow a small crop next year (to limit vigor) that you will end up with a mass of overgrown foliage. This has been my experience. It seems that comparing the European varieties with grafted root stock to Midwestern hybrids is almost an apples and oranges comparison. Note the difference in the photos that Johnny99 (state of Washington) posted and compare them with yours. Note the difference both of soils, vines and the semi-arid climate.



Thanks I appreciate that input. My spacing is 8 feet. So some of these vines have grown to a 5 1/2 foot top wire and 4 feet down the top wire in just this first year.

That vigor is what I'm worried about. This ground has been cow pasture for 20 years. Good dark topsoil over clay. In the past it has been overseeded with clover as well. We've had pretty even moisture this year as well.


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## ibglowin

Does everyone on the East side of the mountains put their nets on in the nude? I thought that was only a West side sort of thing! 



Johny99 said:


> Temperature finally dropped and with a high go 80 and the smoke gone, it was a good day to be in the vineyard.
> 
> picture is how the nets go on. Only two of us today, so a bit more work.


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## GreginND

ibglowin said:


> Does everyone on the East side of the mountains put their nets on in the nude? I thought that was only a West side sort of thing!



Isn't that biodynamic farming?


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## balatonwine

balatonwine said:


> Meanwhile my Turán (aka Agria) is already at 19 brix. My earliest harvest was on August 26th in 2015. This year's Turán is heading to break that record.



Quoting myself, because I was right. 

My Turán got about as ripe as it would this week. And to avoid pulling in over ripe grapes later, and with a storm coming tonight, I made the call to harvest today.


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## Ajmassa

Looking for some direction. This is my 1st time working with grapes off the vine. This is more of a fun project than anything else given the circumstances. 

Some background info:
- ive been given carte Blanche to harvest and turn some grapes into wine. 
- Vines have not ever been used for wine, but are definitely wine grapes. 
-8-9 yrs old. Are radically overgrown and have never been pruned or maintained for 
winemaking purposes. Seems like they were for decor and the birds. 
-northeast US climate
-I don't know the varietals
Reds
The red grapes are all on only ONE Overgrown vine. So right away I have zero expectations They are looking healthy though.
- Brix 15%. 
-ph 3.5
-veraison in 100%
-seeds light colored. Green/white
- stems bright green
-taste sweet low on acidity. 
Whites
The whites are coming from 2 separate vines that are insanely overgrown. Draping a 8x15 canopy/trellis and onto a structure next to it. Very big area. All on 2 vines. Again, no expectations. The whites have died this year and last. Most of them. Thought it was odd to see dried up shriveled clusters (dark brown stems) with good grapes randomly within. No full healthy clusters at all. But over a large area there's quite a bit of good grapes. 

Brix 17-18%
Ph 3.6
Seeds brown
Stems brown
Taste good. Lots of flavor. 

Making wine with these regardless. Planned on waiting longer and periodically checking Brix until ripe. Again, just a fun project. And no expectations. Please feel free to give input if anything jumps out to you.


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## Kraffty

I picked 1vine of Syrah two weeks ago between 22 and 24 brix. I picked one of three Cabernet today. My other two are a couple weeks behind. 22 pounds off the one.


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## ceeaton

Kraffty said:


> I picked 1vine of Syrah two weeks ago between 22 and 24 brix. I picked one of three Cabernet today. My other two are a couple weeks behind. 22 pounds off the one.



That looks like some pretty nice looking fruit. Congratualations!

I'm feeling some grape envy towards you...Father forgive my sins as you have done on an hourly basis ...


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## Kraffty

My debate is whether to ferment the cab, maybe 70 lbs for three or four gallons or add a lug of bought grapes for six gallons.


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## ceeaton

Kraffty said:


> My debate is whether to ferment the cab, maybe 70 lbs for three or four gallons or add a lug of bought grapes for six gallons.



You could always do them separate and try a bench blend later to see if you like that better or if your grapes are better left alone. I'd personally leave them be so I could say that I grew these (etc. etc.). I guess I need to go to church tomorrow to work on a few things...


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## balatonwine

Ajmassa5983 said:


> The red grapes are all on only ONE Overgrown vine. So right away I have zero expectations They are looking healthy though.
> - Brix 15%.
> -ph 3.5
> -veraison in 100%
> -seeds light colored. Green/white
> - stems bright green
> -taste sweet low on acidity.



Wait. But keep an eye on the pH. If it goes above 3.6, I would harvest regardless what the brix is. As you know, sugar is easy to add, adjusting acidity is a bit more work.




Ajmassa5983 said:


> Whites
> 
> Brix 17-18%
> Ph 3.6
> Seeds brown
> Stems brown
> Taste good. Lots of flavor.
> 
> .



Harvest now. The seeds and stems alone say so. The pH is already too high for a white. Ignore the grape brix, it really is not that important when all other indicators say to harvest. Just add sugar to the must.


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## Johny99

balatonwine said:


> Quoting myself, because I was right.
> 
> My Turán got about as ripe as it would this week. And to avoid pulling in over ripe grapes later, and with a storm coming tonight, I made the call to harvest today.



Wow, that is early. What are your final numbers?


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> Wow, that is early. What are your final numbers?



Everything is a week or two early this year. Last year, everything was a week or two late.

Turán has been an incredibly difficult grape for me, and I planted it because it was suppose to be an easy grape to cultivate (the complete opposite of my Pinot Noir which I planted to be a challenge and it grows and ripens without too much trouble at all). That said, my Turán reached about 19 brix two weeks ago and pretty much stayed there, with the pH steady creeping up. Then within two days the pH shot up fast, probably because we had another few days of very hot weather. So fast that I could not call the harvest fast enough. That the final cellar crush numbers were brix 20.0 and the pH 3.6. 

Meanwhile, my Welschriesling is the complete opposite, stuck at pH 3.0 for the last week, with a steadily climbing brix from 17.6 a week ago, to 19.8 today. More warm weather coming next week (after tonight's thunder storm -- we have had more than normal number of those as well -- probably also due to the hot weather), so expect that pH to also shoot up fast as well soon. 

Has been a great growing season, but the harvest is happening unexpected and too suddenly for many growers here to react. Was talking to another grower yesterday, and he wanted to harvest today, but could not get a crew until next weekend.


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## semenn

Today I cut off an extra leaf around the grapes and made measurements. Marquett and Mukuzani matured the most. 19-22Brix. The rest of the grapes are not yet ready. I do not plan to harvest until the end of September.


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## UBB

My Marquette and LaCrescent measured (ave) 23 & 22 respectively. Aiming for the wk-end of the 9th to do my crush. It's been a poor year due to winter and spring issues so the fruit set is very poor. Such is live as a grape grower on the Northern Plains


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## Johny99

Back from camping and the eclipse in central Idaho. Vineyard is looking pretty good. Color is deepening and flavors are developing. I haven't checked numbers yet, maybe Monday. Warm days, ~95F, and cool nights, ~45F, are supposed to continue for the next couple of weeks. Looks like it might be another long fall. I did some leaf pulling on the north side of the older, 9 years, vines to get more sun to the clusters.


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## Boatboy24

95F and 45F!!?? Geez!, talk about temp swings. 

Fantastic eclipse pic, by the way.


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## Johny99

Sugars are climbing. So far bird pressure has been light, which is good as I haven't been able to get all the nets on. Darn day jobs! We have a bunch of Egyptian doves hanging around, showed up for the first time this year. I hope they don't like grapes. 

Got the "crush pad", driveway in front of my shop, cleaned up and the crusher and press out of storage. I'm out of town till Friday, but it looks like I'll pick the early whites Saturday. Best part of the year is starting


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## Johny99

Boatboy24 said:


> 95F and 45F!!?? Geez!, talk about temp swings.
> 
> Fantastic eclipse pic, by the way.



Can't take credit for the eclipse pic. Friend with a real camera got that one.


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## BlueStimulator

I checked the good clusters of Viognier (sans powdery mildew) and had a brix of 22 and the ph shot up like a rocket in 5 days to 3.54. The ph and brix from 5 days ago was 20.8 and 3.34. 'Alas not enough vio clusters to make it worth while and reds are toast (PM). When I was by the pool I forgot I had a left over Cab S that has grown wild for 3 years and the few cluster it had look awesome. I may have to practice on those clusters to get more info for my journal. Every thing is 2-3 weeks earlier than last year which was my first harvest. Last year leaf hoppers, this year PM. Live and learn as they say!!!


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## UBB

Got the grapes picked and crushed this wk-end. The Marquette came in with a 25.5 Brix average and the La Crescent averaged 24.


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## Johny99

Wow, fall arrived with gusto. Highs in the 60s, lows around 40 and a bit of rain. Sugars actually dropped a bit with the rain. Thus, didn't have a harvest party this weekend. Supposed to warm up this week, in the 70s today. That should move things along.

Tempranillo has me grumbling as usual. Sugar is only 19.2 Brix but pH is up to 3.66 already. I've never gotten a big red from it, but then again I'm sipping a glass of 2013 as my lovely bride makes pasta. That one was 22.5 and 3.56 at harvest


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## Johny99

I thought I’d finish whites, Pinot Blanc and Riesling, this weekend and early reds, Merlot and Tempranillo. However, with the cool weather, I’m going to wait. Highs the next week plus are supposed to be in the 60-70s. Hopefully that will be enough to get some sugars and we can pick next Saturday. So far my highest is 21.6. Trouble is my fall travel schedule is starting. Makes it hard to do punchdowns when you are gone. Hopefully between my wife, undergoing radiation treatments and my sister-in-law, disabled with a bad back, they can keep up with my bad habits


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## Stressbaby

Some pics from yesterday. These vines went in this spring. Some of them have grown 6+ foot long bilateral cordons on the top wire. I'm seriously considering letting some of them produce some grapes next year to "devigor" them. Pic #1 Vidal Blanc on left, grafted Chardonel foreground, Traminette background on the right. Pic #2 and #3 is Traminette. I'm hold a spur 2' down the cordon with 20+ nodes on it.


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## balatonwine

*@Stressbaby*, just curious, how do you keep your aisles tilled? They look really nice.


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## Stressbaby

balatonwine said:


> *@Stressbaby*, just curious, how do you keep your aisles tilled? They look really nice.



They aren't tilled. I treated the rows before I planted this spring with Roundup and since then just Roundup spot treatments and a weedeater (both very carefully!).


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## Johny99

Big day Saturday. 18 friends and four dogs came to pick. My lovely bride made snack lunch to feed the crowd. Picked just about 1000 lbs; Pinot Blanc and Riesling we’re crushed and pressed; merlot, Syrah (430 lbs) and Sangiovese crushed and cold soaking. We also crushed and pressed ~200 lbs of apples for cider. 

Yesterday I inoculated the cider and whites. I’m off to Atlanta till Thursday so I’m going to let the reds cold soak. I hit each brute with a tsp of meta. Highs are supposed to be mid 60s and lows around 40 so hopefully the shop will stay cool. My wife will gently press down once a day to keep the cap wet. I do have a window a/c unit with an auto cycle that should come on if it gets above 60, I hope.


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## Sage

Looks great!! Just checked mine, Brix range 20-26. Cabs and Carmenere, both on the low side... Syrah and Merlot, on the high side and will be harvested soon.

Looking like deer season, Sat, and harvest are once again conflicting!!


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## balatonwine

Johny99 said:


> 18 friends and four dogs came to pick.



Wow. That is great.

I got 2 people and one dog. And while I love the dog dearly, he did not help one darn bit.


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## Johny99

Picked the rest of the reds, Cab Sauv, Cab Franc, Malbec, Petit Verdot and petit sirah. ~1200lbs. Eight adults four kids and two dogs this time. Like balatonwine says, dogs weren’t much help. I inoculated it all on Sunday as I’ll have to press next Saturday due to my travel schedule. I used Asante yeast, thanks to NorCal for the idea. They are all fermenting nicely.


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