# zinfandel blending?



## kendo

whats your favorite blend for zin?..im thinking about a 70 % zin, 20 %petit, and 10% carignane this year sound good?..


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## CellarRat

Zinfandel and Petite Sirah is probably my favorite blend. I usually like to go 75% Zin and 25 Petite Sirah. Many folks argue that by adding more than 15-20% PS you lose the varietal character of the Zinfandel. For me adding 25% PS gives the Zin the back bone that it needs. The carignane is also a common blender with these grapes, but I personally have never vinified that varietal.


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## joea132

I'd love to know how this turns out. Keep us posted on what you chose and why.


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## Rocky

Kendo, if you really want to walk on the wild side, try blending Zinfandel 75-25 with _Muscat. _I have been making or helping make this wine on and off for more than 50 years. I was fortunate enough to be awarded a Silver Medal at the Pittsburgh Amateur Wine Makers Competition in March, 2012 for the wine.


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## MalvinaScordaad

kendo said:


> whats your favorite blend for zin?..im thinking about a 70 % zin, 20 %petit, and 10% carignane this year sound good?..


Assuming the grapes are of a good quality I would be very happy with a reversal of your PS and your Carignane. If your Zinfandel Grapes leave something to be desired then I would increase the PS but I would not reduce the Carignane. I think the Carignane offers a complexity that really improves the wine. Let me also say if you have totally awesome Zinfandel grapes then a touch of PS is all you need if you want to truly enjoy the varietal without feeling you needed more structure. To answer your question better is to know the grapes from the same vineyard from vintage to vintage to make adjustments in line with past results. A good way to learn is to vinify all these separate and blend later into a variety of blends. My goal has always been to find Zinfandel that needed no other varietals to make it great. 
Malvina


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## Rocky

Kendo, at the Pittsburgh Amateur Wine Makers Competition, I attended a class on just this subject entitled _"Blending in the Zinfandel Patch."_ It was given by Jan and Tom Cobett and as the "hands on" part of the class, we were given four wines to blend. The wines were, Zinfandel, of course plus Carignane, Petite Sirah and Grenache. The three "other" wines were chosen to balance some of the characteristics of the Zinfandel and give a smoother wine. We tried several combinations of the four wine trying to balance acidity, tannins and alcohol while enhancing color, mouth feel, palate and finish. It is really a matter or taste but I liked a blend I made of 75% Zinfandel, 5% Carignane (tannic, acidic and color), 10% Petite Sirah (herbals, fruits and long finish) and 10% Grenache (Sweetness, fruitiness, low tannins). 

Good luck with your project. Sounds like fun. Do you plan to blend the finished wines or co-ferment?


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## kendo

thanks for the replys, i just bottled up my zin from last year, it was a blend of zin,alicante,muscato, its very good im going to enter it this year at the topsfield fair , i want to play around with the zinfandel, maybe do a 40% zinfandel 40%cabernet sauvignon 20% merlot ...so many recipes ..i think im going to try colavita grapes this year..anyone try there zin??....sept cant come fast enough....


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## Rocky

Kendo, that is interesting. When I made wine with my Grandfather, he used to use either Zinfandel _or_ Alicante with Muscat, but not the two together. The choice was a function of sweetness, appearance and price. We kids used to prefer the Zinfandel because they were easier to strip from the stems, or so it seemed at the time.


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## MalvinaScordaad

kendo said:


> ..i think im going to try colavita grapes this year..anyone try there zin??....sept cant come fast enough....


I can't wait either but one of the last grapes I would be looking forward to getting is Colavita. Hartford Ct is not that far from you and it would be more than worth the drive to go to the M&M Grape Company and get yourself some excellent Lanza Old Vine Zin or Lanza Primitivo or if you want extraordinary fruit the Grand Pere 140 year old wine Zin from Amador. But these are too superior quality to be blended with Moscato to make a type of old world zinfandel. These grapes are better at home in a Seghesio or Ridge Zin instead, And the 75 year old Suisun Seibe Ranch Carignane is off the charts if you can get it. Get in line Sonny behind Malvina. Malvina


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## Rock

Rocky said:


> Kendo, if you really want to walk on the wild side, try blending Zinfandel 75-25 with _Muscat. _I have been making or helping make this wine on and off for more than 50 years. I was fortunate enough to be awarded a Silver Medal at the Pittsburgh Amateur Wine Makers Competition in March, 2012 for the wine.


Hey Rocky good to know I thought I read some were you like kits wines over grape wines.Glad to see you still use grapes.


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## kendo

hmm, the old vine zin i made last year the grapes were from lodi, i had no problems with them, everyone talks about M&M in conn..there"s 5 diff grape venders 4 minutes from my house with nice grapes, they sell out every year, i make wine for me, its a fun hobby , cutone in everett mass always has a nice selection for a good price..my buddys dad used colavita grapes and his wine is dam good, whats the price on a lug of lanza?..and im no sonny malvin ....


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## CellarRat

MalvinaScordaad said:


> My goal has always been to find Zinfandel that needed no other varietals to make it great.
> Malvina



Like Rocky, I grew up with winemakers that would blend or coferment zinfandel and muscato. I really never worked with alicante, but this grape was commonly added to a zinfandel ferment to assure a desirable color in the final wine. I love the flavor that muscato gives to a zinfandel when zin is the major grape in the wine. When muscato represent half or more of the final blend, I have never been happy with the wine. I have not tasted this blend in many years but I am thinking about a zin, ps, and muscato blend - 70-20-10. 

That said, blends are for the most part better than single varietal wines. Why someone would want to handicap themselves by making a wine with a single varietal grape doesnt make sense. It is like cooking with salt and no other condiments or spices. Blending can not only make up for deficiencies in one or more of the varietals to make the final wine more palatable - we all know this; but blending still has a place even when the individual grapes do not have any deficiencies. Even if you can find the perfect zinfandel and I have been lucky enough to vinify a few good zinfandels, including 1/2 ton Grand Pere, you still, in my opinion, should be blending. That of course assumes you want to make a zinfandel with more than one dimension and with some backbone.


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## MalvinaScordaad

CellarRat said:


> Like Rocky, I grew up with winemakers that would blend or coferment zinfandel and muscato. I really never worked with alicante, but this grape was commonly added to a zinfandel ferment to assure a desirable color in the final wine. I love the flavor that muscato gives to a zinfandel when zin is the major grape in the wine. When muscato represent half or more of the final blend, I have never been happy with the wine. I have not tasted this blend in many years but I am thinking about a zin, ps, and muscato blend - 70-20-10.
> 
> That said, blends are for the most part better than single varietal wines. Why someone would want to handicap themselves by making a wine with a single varietal grape doesnt make sense. It is like cooking with salt and no other condiments or spices. Blending can not only make up for deficiencies in one or more of the varietals to make the final wine more palatable - we all know this; but blending still has a place even when the individual grapes do not have any deficiencies. Even if you can find the perfect zinfandel and I have been lucky enough to vinify a few good zinfandels, including 1/2 ton Grand Pere, you still, in my opinion, should be blending. That of course assumes you want to make a zinfandel with more than one dimension and with some backbone.


I have to agree with you even though with the Lanza and the Grand Pere you come very close to not needing anything to enhance the wine. Actually I only used 3% PS in my Grand Pere. That says so much for the grapes. As far as Lodi Zins there are a few decent ones but Colavita is not one of them. Kendo if you are happy with the level of wine quality you make with the grapes you get then there is no reason to try to find better fruit. My perspective is different. I want to make the best wine possible and I truly believe that it starts with the grapes. Besides when you use better grapes the fermentations are so much easier. There is very little worry about weird numbers and making loads of adjustments. It's almost like making a kit. Nothing to do. You ask about the price. Lanza grapes considering this year's anticipated price increase for Lodi grapes should be about a 20 percent premium. Well worth it. To me actually a bargain. The Grand Pere is very special and rare. After all how many winemakers make a 140 old vine Zinfandel. Expect a 100% increase over typical Lodi grapes. The reason why everyone is talking about M&M in Hartford is because they are the only ones who handle really better fruit to go to the next level of winemaking. You are not the only one who has a grape distributor nearby. But many instead drives for hours to go to Hartford to get better fruit and options no one else really has to offer. However some are lucky enough that their grape distributor gets their grapes from M&M and that saves them the trip. 
For me I love to go to Hartford just to give the cuitie Frank Musto a kiss. 
Malvina


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## Rocky

Rock said:


> Hey Rocky good to know I thought I read some were you like kits wines over grape wines. Glad to see you still use grapes.


 
Rock, other things being equal, I would prefer to make wine from grapes rather than kits or juice. But the _ceteris _is not _paribus!_

For example, I no longer have the equipment or space to make wine from grapes; I no longer have a nearby source of grapes; I am 70 now and don't have the help or the energy that it takes to make a great wine from grapes.

Using a kit or buckets of juice offers a lot of attractive aspects for me at this point. I can make the wine in my basement with little disruption to the on-goings of the family; I don't need a lot of equipment; I have access to many varieties that I would not with grapes; I can make small batches of a variety of wines; the process is less work, relatively fast and cleaner than using grapes; I feel the wine is a very good quality and rivals or exceeds a lot of that which we made from grapes; every year is a "good year" and lastly, I don't miss the friggin' fruit flies!

I have made a lot of wine from grapes (Zinfandel, Alicante, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Vidal Blanc, Muscat & Delaware) and I truly enjoyed it as it was a part of my heritage. Father Time will have his say, though, and making wine from grapes has gone to the same place as my drag racing, playing football and baseball and chasing girls has gone and I have no idea where that is.


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## altavino

kendo said:


> whats your favorite blend for zin?..im thinking about a 70 % zin, 20 %petit, and 10% carignane this year sound good?..



That sounds very good , ridge uses carigane is it's zin blends , 20% petite syrah might be a bit heavy . A little goes a long way. 

80 10 10 might retain more zincharacter . Something to consider if working with nice old vine fruit but if working with ordinary valley fruit , 20% ps would be a good idea.


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## MalvinaScordaad

Hi John did you see the filter cartridge info you wanted?
Malvina


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## altavino

Yes I did thanks . I'll order a couple of the fg ones , my poly ones have been used so many times it's time to change them out. 
No sweet wines planned so a 2 micron and .45 will do.


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## CellarRat

MalvinaScordaad said:


> For me I love to go to Hartford just to give the cuitie Frank Musto a kiss.
> Malvina



Okay you lost me with your last comment. The M&M family and Frank Musto, more importantly, are great to deal with because they understand that the winemaker of today is quite different from the generations before us. We want quality, we are not looking for grapes to make jug wine, we want to make a high quality wine because that is what we typically buy at the store. Cheers to Frank Musto... but I will leave to kissing to Malvina.


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## altavino

We planted 1/2 acre of zin last year because we missed it , my grandpa made Zin blends for years . 

so now we have 1/2 acre of foch (older vines 1967) and we grafted over another half acre of it to 1/4 acre syrah and 1/4 acre zweigelt 6 years ago.

we've also a half acre of viognier and half acre mixed pinot gris and pinot blanc (oops) planted in 2000.

and acre of pinot noir (2001) 

I'd like to plant some sangiovese but its already too much work with the acre of peaches and apples. 

back when Dad had the land he had 10 acres of peaches and 5 of apples but we sold it off and planted grapes on the horse paddocks when he retired.

If you can't grow your own , its important to have a good supplier.


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## CellarRat

altavino said:


> We planted 1/2 acre of zin last year because we missed it , my grandpa made Zin blends for years .
> 
> so now we have 1/2 acre of foch (older vines 1967) and we grafted over another half acre of it to 1/4 acre syrah and 1/4 acre zweigelt 6 years ago.
> 
> we've also a half acre of viognier and half acre mixed pinot gris and pinot blanc (oops) planted in 2000.
> 
> and acre of pinot noir (2001)
> 
> I'd like to plant some sangiovese but its already too much work with the acre of peaches and apples.
> 
> back when Dad had the land he had 10 acres of peaches and 5 of apples but we sold it off and planted grapes on the horse paddocks when he retired.
> 
> If you can't grow your own , its important to have a good supplier.



John what kind of wine does the zweigelt grape make. I have heard good things about this grape including that it can been growns in colder zones like where I am in NY. I assume you are not in NY since you are growing Zinfandel as well.


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## altavino

I live in Oliver British Columbia http://winecapitalofcanada.com/index.php/wine-tours-and-tasting 

, so ripening red grapes is no problem.

zweigelt makes a wine a bit like a old world syrah , medium bodied , deep red , a bit of pepper , cherry and dark fruit character.

it buds late and ripen early which is why its suited for its native austria . 

a good food wine and probably the best vinifera red for a cool location . it has none of the vegitable tendences cab frank has and its more robust than pinot noir .


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## soccer0ww

Rocky said:


> Kendo, if you really want to walk on the wild side, try blending Zinfandel 75-25 with _Muscat. _I have been making or helping make this wine on and off for more than 50 years. I was fortunate enough to be awarded a Silver Medal at the Pittsburgh Amateur Wine Makers Competition in March, 2012 for the wine.


That sounds really interesting. And now my wife is like lets make it! And congrats on the medal.


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## kendo

Kendo takes 1st place!!! Blue Ribbon!!! From The Topsfield Fair Wine competition,, My Zinfandel took it<< man its so good!! im stoked!!!


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## Rocky

kendo said:


> Kendo takes 1st place!!! Blue Ribbon!!! From The Topsfield Fair Wine competition,, My Zinfandel took it<< man its so good!! im stoked!!!


 
Congratulations, Kendo. Way to go, fella!


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## kendo

thks rocky!!!!!...


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## ibglowin

Congrats!


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## DCJRW

I really like a 50/50 blend of zin and syrah. We did this blend last year and it won a double gold in the orange county competition.


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## kendo

DCJRW said:


> I really like a 50/50 blend of zin and syrah. We did this blend last year and it won a double gold in the orange county competition.


 congrats!!!...i just racked off the lee"s this morning from this years batch, ovz x black mix< valdepena & carnelian!!!!..smells and taste good already..


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## thesnow

CellarRat said:


> Zinfandel and Petite Sirah is probably my favorite blend. I usually like to go 75% Zin and 25 Petite Sirah. Many folks argue that by adding more than 15-20% PS you lose the varietal character of the Zinfandel. For me adding 25% PS gives the Zin the back bone that it needs. The carignane is also a common blender with these grapes, but I personally have never vinified that varietal.



Do you do the fermentations sparate on both grapes? If yes, when do you blend the two juices together.
Thanks


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## naperwineguy

Normal wine making standards follow the process of separate ferments, with a blending process done sometime prior to bottling. Usually during the bulk aging period where you can perform bench trials on blend percentages to find the blend which most suits your pallet.


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## thesnow

I see, I was under the impression that blending was done at an early stage. I will try this .. blending at bottling time.


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