# Is a manual crusher/destemmer worth it?



## Boatboy24 (Mar 31, 2014)

Obviously, the best answer is "It depends". But I'm just wondering what the consensus might be out there in winemaking land. Motorized units seem to start in the $900 range, where manual units can be had for less than $400. My grape source will crush and destem for $25. If you're running batches in spring and fall each year, it doesn't take long to make back the investment for a manual unit. But you need a helper to really make the process move along. Dropping a grand on a motorized unit is a very different story. 

Discuss...


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## ibglowin (Mar 31, 2014)

$25 is a great price if its "all you can eat" and the C/D is a decent machine. That said having your own C/D where you can C/D on your timeline and not someones else's is the absolute best. I bought a Manual one a few years ago and love it. Never a problem to get somebody to assist. 

I have a retired (engineer) good buddy with too much time on his hands and he begged me to let him automate my C/D with a motor. He is just about done. He pretty much has his own machine shop in one of the garages. He found an old treadmill at the local landfill in perfect condition and retrieved the motor and controls from it. He has been having a ball with it. Machining all the parts and aligning things. In the end it won't cost me a thing to convert it.


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## JohnT (Mar 31, 2014)

It really does all depend on how much in the way of grapes you plan on processing. 

I am a big believer in buying something only once. I hate the idea of purchasing something and then having to take a hit on it because it ended up being inadequate. 

The hand operated if fine, but if you want to process over 20 boxes of grapes, I would seriously consider the motorized version.

BTW, $25 to process your grapes?? What a rip!


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## grapeman (Apr 1, 2014)

John I respectfully disagree about the $25 being a ripoff. If you own the machine you have control of it so you can use it when needed, but don't forget, you also clean it yourself and I'm sure you have free labor to do it. When anyone is renting out the machine to others they have cleaning, maintenance and upkeep on it. They have to provide the labor for all the moving, cleaning, repairing, etc. Yes they might expect the ones using it to clean it, but you can't rely on it being truly clean when they are done so it needs cleaning anyways. Then there is the upkeep on the c/d. Like anything else rented out there needs to be a minimum rental charge to cover the cost of owning it.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks for the input guys. Just to be clear: $25 is not a rental fee. It is to have the grapes crushed/destemmed right there while I wait. 

$25 can be a ripoff, if you are doing smaller batches (as I have been thus far - 6-7 gallons of finished wine). As I go further down this rabbit hole called winemaking, I see the batches getting larger and the cost per bottle of that $25 becomes less and less painful. Still; to walk into the winery, pay for my grapes/crush, and walk to the car several minutes later with my must is a nice convenience. I can imagine doing it myself - even for only 120lbs of grapes - would take over an hour to set up, crush, clean up, then put everything away. In that regard, $25 is a steal. 

Grapeman is right though in that one also needs to consider cleaning, storage, etc. All "costs" of ownership.


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## cmason1957 (Apr 1, 2014)

Depending on amount of grapes crushed and destemmed $25 isn't horrible. The place I normally get grapes from charges $0.10/lb. I usually get about 300-400 so $30-40. And I do no setup or cleanup.


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## JohnT (Apr 1, 2014)

Grapeman, 

I am thinking the $25 is for the same service that my favorite supplier offers. They have large crusher/destem/press machines and are happy to process the grapes for you for a fee of *$1* *per 36 pound lug*.

It is not like they need to clean or move any equipment in between uses. They only need to clean the equipment at the end of the day and sterilize it at the beginning of the day. That operation takes 1 person about an hour of time. The equipment costs are more than worth it as they process thousands and thousands of lugs in a season to the relatively few customers that do not own equipment.

If this person is charging a $25 processing fee, my thinking is that he is ripping you off. 

I would get my own equipment. Get a motorized one. I purchased mine in 1995 and it still works perfectly. Over several years it will pay for itself and will still have value.


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## ibglowin (Apr 1, 2014)

That is a pretty good bargain if you ask me. When we drove to Dallas for grapes in Oct 2011. Fine Vine Wines charged $2 a lug. I know enough people (now) throughout our state that I could borrow one pretty easily. I would still have to drive 50-100 miles each way to pick it up. If I could get one for $25 and only drive 10 miles or so each way I seriously doubt I would have bought my own. Even doing close to 1000lb each year like I do the crushing is over in about an hour. I think it takes longer to setup and cleanup than to C/D!


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## grapeman (Apr 1, 2014)

This is a good discussion. It gives Jim plenty of things to consider. I think the viabiltity of owning his own depends on a lot of factors and conditions. What we all need to realize is that every situation is uniques JohnT pays 3 cents a pound to have his done while Cmason pays 10 cents. $25 for 100 pounds would be 25 cents a pound but if he buys 1000 pounds then it drops to 2.5 cents. Every supplier has his or her own business model and some are obviously better deals than others.

If Jim spends $50 on getting grapes done twice a year it would take him 8 years to pay for a c/d @ 400. A motorized at $1000 would take 20 years to pay for. Ultimately we all need to make a choice and live with it.


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## GreginND (Apr 1, 2014)

grapeman said:


> If Jim spends $50 on getting grapes done twice a year it would take him 8 years to pay for a c/d @ 400. A motorized at $1000 would take 20 years to pay for. Ultimately we all need to make a choice and live with it.



Of course time, travel and convenience is also money and should be factored into these decisions.


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## JohnT (Apr 1, 2014)

grapeman said:


> If Jim spends $50 on getting grapes done twice a year it would take him 8 years to pay for a c/d @ 400. A motorized at $1000 would take 20 years to pay for. Ultimately we all need to make a choice and live with it.


 
You are right that every situation is different, but I would say that (up by me) I can pick a motorize c/d for more like $800. Also, after 20 years, the c/d will still be worth something (have value). I could easily sell my 20 year old c/d for $250. (sorry to nit pick) 

You are right that every situation is different. I do a rather large amount so having a good c/d makes sense (as does having a large hydrolic press). If I were only doing 10 lugs or so, then I very well may have second thoughts.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 1, 2014)

JohnT said:


> I could easily sell my 20 year old c/d for $250.



I will buy it for $250.


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## JohnT (Apr 1, 2014)

Boatboy24 said:


> I will buy it for $250.


 

(Sorry, that is dependent on my wanting to sell it)


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## grapeman (Apr 1, 2014)

JohnT said:


> You are right that every situation is different, but I would say that (up by me) I can pick a motorize c/d for more like $800. Also, after 20 years, the c/d will still be worth something (have value). I could easily sell my 20 year old c/d for $250. (sorry to nit pick)
> 
> You are right that every situation is different. I do a rather large amount so having a good c/d makes sense (as does having a large hydrolic press). If I were only doing 10 lugs or so, then I very well may have second thoughts.


 
I am not disputing a single thing you say John and I would also get a motorized one myself (Oh wait a minute, I already have one). What I am trying to say is that we have given him more information and now he must decide for himself what to do.


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## vacuumpumpman (Apr 1, 2014)

I personally own a manual crusher only - I like it alot because I do alot more than just grapes thru it. 
My friend has a manual crusher - destemmer , so we trade off from time to time


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## Wade E (Apr 2, 2014)

I had the manual C/D and it worked great and my 8 year old son at that time had no trouble turning the handle while I dumped grapes in. I had mine set up on horses with a Tote container under it. Sure a motor would have been nicer but IMO unless you are doing big amounts its not needed, If you are thinking about starting a small winery or making 300 or more hundred gallons of wine then a motorized in basically a must though.


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## NorCal (Apr 22, 2014)

Wade, what make and model is that? How effective is it at removing the stems?


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## shoebiedoo (Apr 22, 2014)

I have the exact same model and it does a pretty good job. I personally go through the grapes after they're crushed and get as many of the stem pieces, as I can, out of there.


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## NorCal (Apr 23, 2014)

Shoe, Wade, do you have the make/model handy? Where did you purchase it?

Thank you in advance.


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## shoebiedoo (Apr 23, 2014)

Here ya go

http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/crush-destr-manual-paint/4,10614.html


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## NorCal (Apr 24, 2014)

Perfect, thanks shoebiedoo


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