# Varieties for next year



## grapeman (Nov 28, 2006)

Well I assume just about everyone in the northern Hemisphere is just about done with the growing season for there vineyard




.


That being said- it's like a seed catalog - time to drool and dream.






What varieties is everyone contemplating growing next year they don't have in the ground now?


I have Traminette, Corot Noir, Noiret, GR-7, Sabrevois and Steuben ordered. I'm hoping I can find a source for some Marquette also(maybe I can get some cuttings and root them-of course I will send in the royalty if I do).


Here's hoping for a mild winter and a warm spring.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 28, 2006)

Not going to plant anymore grape varieties, just try to make rows for the little cuttings I started last year, if they servive...
Hope to find a fairly hardy Blackberry or Black Raspberry and try some of those.Two of our Thanksgiving guests [local guys] said they have Blackberries growing here...so have to butter them up come summertime with more wine....
Will try to find more types of native fruits to plant.... have many volunteer Sandcherry seedlings from the Wildlife shelterbelt that I will turn into a row someplace....I have mixed them with Chokecherries and have an awesome dark red dry wine going.
Have killed off a big strawberry patch that was growing between the rows of grapes and taking over....so have to make a more controlled row out there someplace.
We are having a very unusual fall....it had been in the 50's + 60's*F the past few weeks...last Thursday it started to cool off....BIG TIME...now it is raining and wanting to freeze, should turn to snow soon....so will have the traditional layer of ice under the snow....We will take moisture in any form.
The roses still had green leaves, not good...they hadn't hardened off as they should have...grapes are probably in the same boat, so might get winter kill on the tender shoots.
On the bright side....the seed catalogs are pouring in...just not in the mood yet, but have been thumbing through them...and dog earing some pages...that is a start. 
Mostly, next year I hope to just be able to look after what I got going, gather many berries and fruits and make many batches of fruit wines...again.




*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman (Nov 28, 2006)

I had some backberry wine my brother-out-law made this fall on Thanksgiving. They live next to me on the family farm and there is a huge patch of blackberries behind their house. He picked enough berries this summer to make a full 6 gallon batch using a full bodied recipe(about 5 pounds per gallon). I have to say, it actually tasted like blackberries. It will make an awesome wine when it has some age on it. We also make black raspberry wine, which is also very good. By all means get some of both plants and put in a couple rows of each


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## bilbo-in-maine (Nov 28, 2006)

Yep, I'm digging out two new rows and planting posts this weekend for new Marquette vinelings coming next spring. As NW says, the weather is crazy, but it has let me keep working outside when any other year I wouldn't want to. I'll also be doing dormant cuttings to increase the number of St. Pepin and Frontenac Gris. Once that is done, I think I will have enough to deal with when first harvest comes around.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 28, 2006)

appleman said:


> I had some backberry wine my brother-out-law made this fall on Thanksgiving. They live next to me on the family farm and there is a huge patch of blackberries behind their house. He picked enough berries this summer to make a full 6 gallon batch using a full bodied recipe(about 5 pounds per gallon). I have to say, it actually tasted like blackberries. It will make an awesome wine when it has some age on it. We also make black raspberry wine, which is also very good. By all means get some of both plants and put in a couple rows of each



Appleman...Is the flavor of the Black Raspberry much different than the Red Raspberry??? The Black Raspberries are said to be hardy here.
I have lots of red's growing and I want a Blackberry type flavor.


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## grapeman (Nov 28, 2006)

Yes the taste is different but no even close to blackberry. I think the black raspberry is more flavorful than the red, but it may just be the varieties I used. Anyway you look at it, the taste will be worth the effort.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 28, 2006)

Appleman...you made me do it....

I braved the frizzle [freezing drizzle] and went to the greenhouse and brought in a bag of potting soil...went to the garden and took some cuttings of the Frontenac and King of the North grapes....will make just a few cuttings tomorrow...just incase last years die over winter...

I had turned on one grow light yesterday with some Geranium cuttings under it...my Honey wants me to grow some cherry tomatoes this winter...haven't done that for years...so...will try to have some grape cuttings growing over winter too.....the ones I did last winter worked out pretty good....got nothing to loose....


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## grapeman (Nov 29, 2006)

Just gotta keep your fingers in the soil 'eh? There something about a garden, it just grows on you. You could combine the cherry tomatoes and the grapes and grow grape tomatoes-they are soooo tasty.






So how big is the greenhouse anyway? What do you grow in it?


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 29, 2006)

appleman said:


> Just gotta keep your fingers in the soil 'eh? There something about a garden, it just grows on you. You could combine the cherry tomatoes and the grapes and grow grape tomatoes-they are soooo tasty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very small greenhouse, not heated...start plants under lights and move them out there in April...the rest of the year it is storage for the pots, soils, trays...etc....Wish it was bigger, we have thought of having a plastic hoop and do more plants, but that might take the fun out of it....enough for me and my friends is plenty to take care of.


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## Fly boy (Nov 29, 2006)

Bilbo in Maine:


Are the varieties of grapes you are planting hardy enough for more Northern areas in Maine? We live about 150 miles north of you. We have lots of room to plant some grapes and I would like to next spring, but I do not know much about it. Can you share some sources of info that might apply to our climate in Maine?


Many thanks


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 29, 2006)

Fly boy said:


> Bilbo in Maine:
> 
> Are the varieties of grapes you are planting hardy enough for more Northern areas in Maine? We live about 150 miles north of you. We have lots of room to plant some grapes and I would like to next spring, but I do not know much about it. Can you share some sources of info that might apply to our climate in Maine?
> 
> Many thanks



Can't help you with Maine...I live in Northwestern Minnesota...a struggle to grow many things here...but continue to try different grape varieties for this Zone and slip a few vines in for warmer zones and baby them along.
Here is a Site you can checkout till Bilbo gets back to you...

http://www.newenglandwinegrapes.org/

I have some information from other cold climate areas too....
Check with your county Extension Office...or go to the Maine Agriculture Web Sites and see what they have to help you along....



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 29, 2006)

Appleman....when I took the grape cuttings yesterday the core of the vines were still green, surprised about that..
Yesterday we were having rain, sleet, thunder, freezing drizzle, it was about 38*F most of the day....It cleared off and the temperatures plunged....the temp this morning was -1*F for a short time...the winds are howling and baby it's cold out there...
I stuck some of the cuttings and got them under lights...About half of them I wrapped in paper towels and will see if I can get hem to callouse...I have never done it that way, usually just stick them in a mix of good potting soil and 50% Perlite....
So...time will tell if I will get a few more cuttings rooted....with such a drastic change in temperature this morning I worry about many plants that are out there with no snow cover...


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## grapeman (Nov 29, 2006)

Yes the weather is a roller coaster here too. Monday about 50, Tuesday 34 for a high with freezing rain, and today it is 55 out now. Tomorrow we are expecting a record high of about 65 and Friday snow. Hopefully things are hardening off adequately, but then grapes are so prolific they can lose a good share of their buds and still have plenty to grow.


As far as varieties for Maine - go for good cold hardy varieties to be safe to start out. You should be safe growing the ones I grow here in the Champlain Valley of NY.


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## Fly boy (Nov 29, 2006)

Thanks for the info. Our climate in this part of Maine is most likelysimilar toNorthern Minnesota. It gets real cold for extended periods of time. 
It has been unseasonably warm here, but will turn quickly I am sure. With lack of snow cover here, the frost can really do some damage over the winter.


I'll try the resources you have mentioned. It would be cool to get a vineyard going.


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## bilbo-in-maine (Dec 1, 2006)

Hi Fly boy - 150 miles north would put you somewhere in The County perhaps? I believe you are in the next harshest growing zone from me - I'm moderated somewhat by the ocean here in Yarmouth. Still, I believe that most of what I've planted will grow for you also since many of them are also grown by Appleman and Northern Winos. Generally, any of the varieties developed by U. Minnesota or pioneered by Elmer Swenson in Wisconsin are worth considering. Snow cover will be crucial for those extended periods of sub-zero cold. Lacking that, you would do well to insulate your vines. Do a Google search on "grape growing, cold climates". There are a lot of resources. Also look through this site &lt;www.ristcanyonvineyards.com&gt;. "Northern Winework: Growing Grapes and Making Wine in Cold Climates" is a book worth ordering and reading several times this winter while you bide your time.

A list of my vines (keep in mind that they are going into their first winter so I can't speak from experience as to hardiness yet):
Fontenac and Frontenac Gris
Landot Noir
Marechal Foch (may be tender for your area)
St. Pepin
St. Croix
Marquette (next spring)

I'd be interested to hear what you do! Good luck.
Bill


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## Fly boy (Dec 1, 2006)

Actually we live near Dover-Foxcroft and it is cold and windy in winter. We do get a fair amount of snow cover so that may not be so much of issue depending on what mother nature brings and when. 


Thanks for the resources. I will need to do some homework. We have 35 acres of fields by the house. Some of it could be dedicated to a vineyard. We have a lot of equipment so that would not be an issue as well.


I'll let you know what is going on. Nice to compare notes with someone on this.


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## jsmahoney (Dec 1, 2006)

About a mile north of our place, in the county ditch, is a very large batch of Blackberries. It extends about one pickup length long with some new scraggliers, and about 1/2 a pickup length in width. I would like to dig some up and transplant them to our farm.The neighbor and I usually picks these during the summer, but we are afraid thatthe farmers will start to spray the ditches for weeds and kill the plants, or just having the chemical on the berries we do not want. Can the transplanting be done now? Does this plant have a large root, or can a person clip and set in water until it gets roots, then plant? Any suggestions would be appreciated!


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 1, 2006)

Here is a little information on the very hardiest of grapes...

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1103.html

http://www.mngrapes.org/varieties.html

EDIT&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Here is a little handbook on growing grapes in Wisconcin...[and other cold areas]

Print it out in two sided printing and you'll have a nice little handbook...

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/pdf/A1656.pdf

And if you want to grow other cold hardy fruits...

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/pdf/A1960.pdf

Hope this is helpful...*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Fly boy (Dec 1, 2006)

Excellent! Thanks NW. I am new to the idea of planting grapes, but if I can get them to grow we have lots of room.
Looks like we are getting the weather this weekend you just had. Looks like its time to uncork a bottle or two and start reading.


Hard to believe 59 degrees last night at 8 o'clock pm on 11-30. Should be in the teens or twenties tomorrow.


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## BonnieJoy (Feb 4, 2007)

Appleman,


I just purchased Marquette Vines from Northeastern Vine Supply:


http://www.nevinesupply.com/


I only have space for 15 vines that will be trained on a VSP Trellis System:
Vidal Blanc, NY81.315.17 (Cayuga x Riesling), Noiret, Marquette.


I live in NE Indiana. From the varieties you chose, it sounds as though you're in Zone 5 - 3.


The Frontenac &amp; Frontenac Gris grapes sound quite exciting. They're a challenge to produce balanced wine because of the high acid. A regional Winery is producing some nice Frontenac wine. The flavor is wonderful.


I would be interested in hearing your grapevine's progress and other other details you'd care to share.


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## grapeman (Feb 4, 2007)

Bonnie Joy, 
Welcome to the forum. Are you making wines yet or just beginning? Fill us in and there is lot's of help here if you need it.


I have been sharing some details, pictures etc of my vines so far. Check out the link below.
http://www.finevinewines.com//Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1474


I may end up trying to get some Marquette from NE Vine Supply. I could drive there to pick them up. I may wait until next year when they get more common and easier to get. I already have 100 vines and 100 cuttings coming this spring. If I can make it to help prune, I may get a few cuttings this spring.


You are right, I am in a cooler area of Zone 5 or warmer side of zone 4- depends on if these warming winters keep up. At the rate it's going we may be in zone 6 in a few years.




*Edited by: appleman *


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 4, 2007)

We had temperatures much above average for most of our winter...barely any snow....and the past few nights have been -27*F...and tonight they are now saying -25*F to -30*F...then a slight warming trend....

I am just hoping my grapes make it...the tender ones are laying down...mulched with straw and the snow has settled on the straw....hope it works.

I am also worried about my roses...and other things....A few years ago we didn't get much snow and had some brutally cold windchills....the raspberries froze to the snow line...it hasn't been that cold yet!!!

There is nothing we can do about the plants at this time...just hope for the best...








*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## BonnieJoy (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi Appleman - I'm a newbie to winemaking, but, totally hooked. My first batch was produced from a Winexpert kit in August 2006. From thereI moved onto making from juices , fresh grapes, &amp; honey. 


I checked out your link. Looks like Michigan soil to me. Your vines should grow well in it. Wow, 3 hours to set posts. What a time saving method.


I do have a question. I live in a Villaminium with a nice sized lot - but many restrictions. I must be mindful of my neighbors and not obstruct their views. That said, I wonder if it would be hazardous (both summer heat &amp; winter's cold) to my vines to position the trellis fruiting wire closer to the ground than the recommended 28 - 36"? I'm thinking ofproducing shorter trunks so upward growth area can also be reduced on my VSP system. I'd like to limit overall height to 4 - 5' also because I'm of smaller stature and this would be easier for me to maintain.


Any feedback is welcome.


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## grapeman (Feb 5, 2007)

Bonnie Joy I don't think I would go any lower to the ground than the minimum 28". I see no real problems with keeping the top positioning wire down just a bit to about 52" or so. You probably don't want the bottom wire too low so the fruit is too close to the ground where the humidity is higher. It sounds like you have been doing your research for variety selection, training, etc. 


One thing I wonder about is who is responsible for grounds maintenance- is there a groundskeeper or do the tennants/owners maintain the yards? It would be easier for you if there is a groundskeeper because you could see if he uses 2-4D or not. If that is used for weed control it will certainly cause you headaches. If everyone does there own yardwork, chances are good somebody will use it and harm your grapes. It can damage vines thousands of feet away from the application. 


Good luck with the vines. Once you get them going, start your own post and put some pictures in it so we can all share from you experiences.


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## BonnieJoy (Feb 5, 2007)

Thanks for your advice Appleman. I'll set my fruiting wire at 28".


Yes, my Villa Association has a common grounds keeper. They do all the mowing &amp; front yard landscape maintenance as well as the fertilization/pest control applications. We are free to install side &amp; back yard landscaping as long as it's done in such a way as to not impede mowing. I made it known to the association before moving in that my preference was for edible landscaping. Little did they know just how serious I was






I'll snap photosto post my little vineyard's progress.


I appreciate your feedback.


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