# SOME PEOPLE



## hounddawg (Dec 8, 2020)

today was my wound care doctors visit, after we left, my brother and i go to a outside BBQ place, about half way thru eating, i see the owner sitting about 30 feet away, i ask him if he was in the dog house, he said no, but was staying away from others because his wife had covid, Delbert and i both froze, his wife made the sandwiches and worked the cash register, how stupid can you get, she'd tested positive a couple days earlier. and neither were wearing masks even though masks don't really help, but just the same, 
Dawg


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## sour_grapes (Dec 9, 2020)

Yikes! That is unreal!


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## hounddawg (Dec 9, 2020)

yeah got me worried, but it is what it is, it is just now getting here real heavy, i mean i can look at woods all around my house, the town i went to is maybe 3000 people, 12 miles away, at wound care i over heard them talking, and i guess it is sweeping our area, the BBQ joint, they wash, but don't use gloves, and since she made our BBQ pulled pork sandwiches , well that's nuts,,, 
Dawg


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 9, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> today was my wound care doctors visit, after we left, my brother and i go to a outside BBQ place, about half way thru eating, i see the owner sitting about 30 feet away, i ask him if he was in the dog house, he said no, but was staying away from others because his wife had covid, Delbert and i both froze, his wife made the sandwiches and worked the cash register, how stupid can you get, she'd tested positive a couple days earlier. and neither were wearing masks even though masks don't really help, but just the same,
> Dawg


Dawg, Dawg, Dawg............................masks DO help! Now we all have to worry if YOU are going to get Covid due to HER irresponsibility! Sorry!.............DizzyIzzy


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## my wine (Dec 9, 2020)

Hounddawg, it is what it is. But don't fret; you and your brother may be fine. The wife of someone I work with had Covid. She was sick for about a week. He never got it and he did test for it. You're an "off-the-land" kind of person it seems. Do those things you would do to fight off a flu. Tea, berries, vitamins ... some of those things work for some people. And do wear a mask since you don't want to share it with others if you did catch it. 

You didn't happen to go to Strawberry's for BBQ?


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## JohnT (Dec 9, 2020)

Go get tested today.


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## ZebraB (Dec 9, 2020)

Sorry to hear that. I know food establishments have been hit hard financially. Probably people getting desperate.. Still no excuse.


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## cmason1957 (Dec 9, 2020)

JohnT said:


> Go get tested today.



I'm going to disagree, but just a little bit. Wait at least 5 days, then go get tested. If you went today, you would almost certainly show up negative, it takes some time to build up enough virus load for the test to register it and false negatives are very common, if you test to early.


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## hounddawg (Dec 9, 2020)

my wid care day ne said:


> Hounddawg, it is what it is. But don't fret; you and your brother may be fine. The wife of someone I work with had Covid. She was sick for about a week. He never got it and he did test for it. You're an "off-the-land" kind of person it seems. Do those things you would do to fight off a flu. Tea, berries, vitamins ... some of those things work for some people. And do wear a mask since you don't want to share it with others if you did catch it.
> 
> You didn't happen to go to Strawberry's for BBQ?


no Pocahontas BBQ, shame is it's best for many a mile around, and yes i know 3 couples that 1 got it and the other did not, and come wound care day when they ask ,, lol,, I'm sure I'll be whisk away to be checked, and i am not one to get very worked up. 
Dawg


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## VinesnBines (Dec 9, 2020)

Masks do help. A lot depends on how close you were to her for how long. Less than 6 feet for more than 15 minutes is what I've heard most. I don't think food transmission is a problem, though it gives you pause. 
You do need to wait at least 5 to 7 days before being tested and if you are back at wound care in the meantime, they will give you plenty of advice.
I'm assuming you were wearing your mask? 
It is surging everywhere but especially in the rural South. In the health district where our vineyard and homeplace is located, the positive rate is 25%.


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## hounddawg (Dec 9, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Masks do help. A lot depends on how close you were to her for how long. Less than 6 feet for more than 15 minutes is what I've heard most. I don't think food transmission is a problenom, though it gives you pause.
> You do need to wait at least 5 to 7 days before being tested and if you are back at wound care in the meantime, they will give you plenty of advice.
> I'm assuming you were wearing your mask?
> It is surging everywhere but especially in the rural South. In the health district where our vineyard and homeplace is located, the positive rate is 25%.


yes i know the semantics of droplet size to weave of material, but as i said she washed her hands butt handled the food, plus the office size is 8x12, with picnic tables under a open sided roofed shed so when she opens the pay window where both she and the food are closed in together, this is a BBQ JOINT, no chips , no fountain drinks, BBQ and canned soda only
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 9, 2020)

McSwain said:


> Wow... I'm not sure what to say about that... If you're scared of the virus, it could be traumatizing. but either way it was irresponsible.
> BTW, I went through your neck of the woods last month on our way to SC to watch my daughter graduate basic training.


nothing to say, other than some people ain't so bright, i don't worry much, but my immune system is strained to the bone, hehe my medical history is a mile long in the last few years, 
thank you, my brother was in first wave into Bagdad, tell your daughter thank you and stay safe,,,
Dawg.


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## BernardSmith (Dec 9, 2020)

I gotta say that behavior is not so much about how "bright" folk are. Either you work to ensure others are not harmed or you don' t and if you don't the only people you tend to care about is yourself and perhaps someone close to you but everyone else is on their own. And sure - many, many people are REALLY hurting because of this pandemic but if every one of us - whether hurting or not, would demand - DEMAND of those in state offices and in Washington that they get off their fat arses and did what they need to do to help alleviate the financial burdens that many people are bent under - and they could, VERY easily - then those BBQ people would not need to behave in ways that put your health and life at risk.


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## Bossbaby (Dec 9, 2020)

The wine supply shop is one of the only public places I head to these days and that's in and out asap.. #covidsucks


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## hounddawg (Dec 9, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> I gotta say that behavior is not so much about how "bright" folk are. Either you work to ensure others are not harmed or you don' t and if you don't the only people you tend to care about is yourself and perhaps someone close to you but everyone else is on their own. And sure - many, many people are REALLY hurting because of this pandemic but if every one of us - whether hurting or not, would demand - DEMAND of those in state offices and in Washington that they get off their fat arses and did what they need to do to help alleviate the financial burdens that many people are bent under - and they could, VERY easily - then those BBQ people would not need to behave in ways that put your health and life at risk.


in my neck of the woods, bright can be a insult,, as in their family tree looks like a telephone pole a southerner slang actually it is albright ,,as well the world is mainly about greed and one's self,, like they say,, come time the clever will be kicked out, as for the rest well to answer it would be politics , and i ain't looking to get banned, as for the BBQ people, till now our area had not been hit like most of the country, his work is else where, he cooks at home on his off set stick smoker , his work gives him lots of leisure time, and his wife has something to do, during the week, i was trying not to sound harsh, i just found it hard to believe they are that way, here most everyone knows everyone, where you're from is vastly different, i spent 15 years going state to state, city to city, my closest town no traffic lights, nearest mall close to 50 miles, till 3 years ago we had to drive 40 mile one way for legal alcohol. closest wally world 12 to 14 miles away, and as stated in original post, it is what it is, would not you be surprised someone you thought you knew was a self-centered Louise,, funny how much this nation has fell back from 2000 thru 2015, well till January 20 2016 ,,, God Bless
Dawg


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## Venatorscribe (Dec 10, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> today was my wound care doctors visit, after we left, my brother and i go to a outside BBQ place, about half way thru eating, i see the owner sitting about 30 feet away, i ask him if he was in the dog house, he said no, but was staying away from others because his wife had covid, Delbert and i both froze, his wife made the sandwiches and worked the cash register, how stupid can you get, she'd tested positive a couple days earlier. and neither were wearing masks even though masks don't really help, but just the same,
> Dawg


Jesus - what a bunch of ####s... all health to you


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## Ken Paw Paw (Dec 10, 2020)

Dawg, people died unnecessarily when this pandemic started. Drs didn’t know how to manage this disease. It was a new deal. Patients were sent home until they were critical and by that time most were beyond recovery.
The learning curve has gone up. They now know early intervention is the key for most people to recover.
If you seriously think you were exposed now might be a good time to have a talk with your Drs.
Get tested as soon as they think you should and be preemptive on care. Don’t sit there if you develop symptoms. Early care is just smart and can save your life.
MAKE SURE YOUR DICTOR KNOWS YOU WANT EARLY INTERVENTION. Ask how he or she is doctoring patients with COVID-19.
Good luck  buddy
Ken


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## Ken Paw Paw (Dec 10, 2020)

Masks:
If we are without clothes and I spit water on you, “you get wet!”
If You are clothed “wearing a mask” and I spit water on you, “you are partially protected.” You get partially wet.
If I wear a mask and spit on you, “YOU STAY DRY” and I look stupid by spitting on my own face.
Masks help
Stay safe and help others do the same.


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## hounddawg (Dec 10, 2020)

Ken Paw Paw said:


> Masks:
> If we are without clothes and I spit water on you, “you get wet!”
> If You are clothed “wearing a mask” and I spit water on you, “you are partially protected.” You get partially wet.
> If I wear a mask and spit on you, “YOU STAY DRY” and I look stupid by spitting on my own face.
> ...


yeah, the crooked CDC has went back and forth on mask so many times, that i believe they cant find their own asses using both hands
Dawg


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## robert81650 (Dec 10, 2020)

Good luck on NOT getting the virus.....It is rampant on Sand Mt here in Boaz, AL.


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## Ken Paw Paw (Dec 10, 2020)

You are right. Anyone who has taken a microbiology class knows how futile it is to avoid all germs and especially those as small as a virus. But we do what we can with the tools we got and keep living until this thing passes by.

I’ve seen Small pox, Polio and several virulent viruses. Hope I see the back side of this one.
Hope you do also
Ken


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## hounddawg (Dec 10, 2020)

yes all different things do matter, but zero guarantees, mask helps but more for the sick spreading as much, back in march , i acquired medical grade mask, gloves, goggles, and 2 bio grade gas mask, back in march i was contacted by the CDC but due to my health they said they would not take my supplies ,, 
Dawg


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## NoQuarter (Dec 10, 2020)

My small town has no mask wearers...NONE. I do wear a mask when I go into the city and stores require them. I have social distanced for many, many years...never cared to be around strangers.
I know one older couple who contracted the china-virus... they quarantined themselves until they were past it. We neighbors took turns dropping by stuff they needed, groceries, coffee, dog-food etc. They only had contact with the testing facility even though there case was very mild; until a week after their negative test.
People who KNOWINGLY have the virus and still purposely come into contact with others should be forcefully quarantined.. If my wife or a grandchild caught it from them I would probably be in jail for a long time.


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## Ken Paw Paw (Dec 10, 2020)

I feel you for sure! I like people but I have noticed since this happened early this year no one would look me in the eye at the stores. I get no smiles or conversations.  Everyone is afraid. Me also. 
Yeah No Quarter some are selfish and won’t wear masks to protect others. You are completely right! You have some good neighbors with that older couple. My hats off to them and you for being thoughtful, considerate and helpful. I sure wish the inner cities did the same. 
I’m thankful I’m not sick, but if I were, I would stay home.
Hang in there! This too shall pass.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 10, 2020)

Ken Paw Paw said:


> I sure wish the inner cities did the same.



We do! Where did you get the idea that we don't?


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## Ken Paw Paw (Dec 10, 2020)

I don’t mean anything personal. I just made an assessment on your difficulty in this situation. From what I’ve read and seen on the news, the virus for what ever reasons, has been much more sever in the inner city than in the outlying towns. If social distance and masks matter at all then my assumption would be they were not being followed by mass in the inner cities. Not that you personally were unconcerned and uncaring. If I offended I offer apology


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## hounddawg (Dec 10, 2020)

NoQuarter said:


> My small town has no mask wearers...NONE. I do wear a mask when I go into the city and stores require them. I have social distanced for many, many years...never cared to be around strangers.
> I know one older couple who contracted the china-virus... they quarantined themselves until they were past it. We neighbors took turns dropping by stuff they needed, groceries, coffee, dog-food etc. They only had contact with the testing facility even though there case was very mild; until a week after their negative test.
> People who KNOWINGLY have the virus and still purposely come into contact with others should be forcefully quarantined.. If my wife or a grandchild caught it from them I would probably be in jail for a long time.


we see eye to eye
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 10, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> We do! Where did you get the idea that we don't?


where you live is a different world than LA,, SAN FRAN,, NYC,,, Wisconsin is way more laid back,, in your cities. then other cities, when i was a mall rat i loved working in your state, but there is good and bad everywhere, even in the roughest cities there are some really good people,
Dawg


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## sour_grapes (Dec 10, 2020)

Ken Paw Paw said:


> From what I’ve read and seen on the news, the virus for what ever reasons, has been much more sever in the inner city than in the outlying towns.



Well, that is not entirely true. While what you say may have been true at one time, it seems to me that the hotspots have varied over time. And the virus does not seem to respect any particluar pattern.

I confess that when the wave in the summer was raging through the southeast and southwest, honestly, I felt a little smug. But then, if you recall, there was a dire surge recently in the sparsely populated areas of ND, SD, ID, WY, UT, and, yes, shifting over into MN and WI. ND and SD, while still suffering quite a high rate of new infections, are now at least trending in the right direction. Now OH and IN are flaring up. Who knows?

At least in my area, people in the city nearly uniformly wear masks. When I have gone out to the exurbs to go walking, I would see throngs of people at, say, a pumpkin patch/hayride, and no one was masked.



> If I offended I offer apology



And I accept it fully and gladly! Thanks.


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## JohnT (Dec 11, 2020)

We (wife and i) had two choices, Stay in NJ or in the GA mountains.

In our NJ county, they are reporting over 200-300 new cases per DAY. THis is not surprising since NJ is the most densely populated state. Restaurants are only allowed 25% capacity which is tough being that it is now too cold for outdoor dining. In talking to friends, it seems there are continued shortages at the supermarkets and tempers are flaring. In short, it is starting to get ugly. Police will fine you if you enter a building without a mask.

In the Northwest GA mountains, we had only 3 in the last month. Store shelves are fully stocked, wearing a mask is optional (only about 1/3 of folks wear masks), and restaurants are allowed 50% capacity (which means you can actually go out for dinner!). 

It was a tough decision, but we opted to stay in Ga.


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## BernardSmith (Dec 11, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> yeah, the crooked CDC has went back and forth on mask so many times, that i believe they cant find their own asses using both hands
> Dawg


I think you might want to check to see where and when the CDC has "gone back and forth". CDC has not - to the best of my knowledge- said anything but the same mantra from Day 1 . Local, state and admin have shilly shallied about the need to take public health at least as seriously as the economy, not the CDC. Although the Trump House has tried to press the CDC to adopt a political rather than a scientific stance. I would check the statements made by CDC and not those made by Faux News.


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## hounddawg (Dec 11, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> I think you might want to check to see where and when the CDC has "gone back and forth". CDC has not - to the best of my knowledge- said anything but the same mantra from Day 1 . Local, state and admin have shilly shallied about the need to take public health at least as seriously as the economy, not the CDC. Although the Trump House has tried to press the CDC to adopt a political rather than a scientific stance. I would check the statements made by CDC and not those made by Faux News.


first i don't watch fox, second, i tend not to conversate with libs, GET OVER YOUR PETTY HURT FEELINGS,,  
Patriot Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 11, 2020)

BernardSmith said:


> I think you might want to check to see where and when the CDC has "gone back and forth". CDC has not - to the best of my knowledge- said anything but the same mantra from Day 1 . Local, state and admin have shilly shallied about the need to take public health at least as seriously as the economy, not the CDC. Although the Trump House has tried to press the CDC to adopt a political rather than a scientific stance. I would check the statements made by CDC and not those made by Faux News.


WELL AT LEAST YOU CAN SPELL CDC, BUT DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER TO 911
STICK WITH WINE MAKING, EVERYONE ELSE IS BERNY
Dawg


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## winemanden (Dec 11, 2020)

We have the same sort of problems in the UK. As long as it's on their mobiles or a celebrity says it, stupid people will believe all sorts of crap. We even have rally's and demos with people jammed together, no masks, no social distancing. Total Dickheads!!! These are the people who moan about Lockdown.
They say wine is a great disinfectant so I think I'll fill my glass and kill me a few germs.


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## BernardSmith (Dec 11, 2020)

winemanden said:


> We have the same sort of problems in the UK. As long as it's on their mobiles or a celebrity says it, stupid people will believe all sorts of crap. We even have rally's and demos with people jammed together, no masks, no social distancing. Total Dickheads!!! These are the people who moan about Lockdown.
> They say wine is a great disinfectant so I think I'll fill my glass and kill me a few germs.


I know. My daughter works for the NHS in Wales. But it's not I think that people are "stupid" . Their ideologies are such that they invoke magical thinking rather than good science. These are the same folk who would have burned at the stake anyone who claimed that the Earth was not at the center of the universe and that it was the Earth that orbited the sun. We are all of us subject to erroneous ideas but it was another thing to be so adamant in your point of view that you would happily cause the suffering and death of thousands and thousands of fellow human beings.


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## Neb Farmer (Dec 11, 2020)

Some hold firecrackers, light them and then throw them. Some do this and then FORGET to throw them...the point being is if that is what they do, that is what they do. You can't , nor should you, control other people. All you can do is control yourself. Maybe. On a good day.  

Virus protection? I sip hand sanitizer occasionally. 

*DISCLAIMER* This post is the result of one good cup of coffee


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## BernardSmith (Dec 11, 2020)

I get it. So, when the traffic light turns green I gotta stop in case someone whom is uncontrollable is speeding through their red light? You always stop at the green light? Like it or not, we DO restrict what people do when what they do restricts our safety and our rights. That's why we have laws. What we don't do is unnecessarily restrict the private behavior of others although theft and rape and homicide are all restricted even when they occur in your home or workplace, school or church. But I guess some people think that they have the unquestionable right to make me sick or worse, kill me, through their negligent behavior.


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## NoQuarter (Dec 11, 2020)

Both sides have good points. Hound-dog was served by a known china virus carrying server.... That's bad. I would not eat there...People suck.
But why tell a church they cannot hold services? You do not have to attend if you do not want to. America is all about the peoples civil liberties.
I do what I want....scared folks should stay away from me... I will not go into a pharmacy without my mask on though. Whats worse is my father in law is dying "96yo"and has not has a visit from his children in months. He wants to go home, refuse more medical treatment and die among his family. That's sad.
The very worst part is.... Telling people they are not allowed to work. That's just messed up. Most folks around here do not want handouts from the government, they want to work and keep money in their employees pockets. Crashing our economy was not the correct path for America.


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## BernardSmith (Dec 11, 2020)

True... and that's why the number of sick and deaths in the meat processing plants was so small... Oh wait.. It wasn't, was it?

"According to data collected by FERN, as of December 11 at 12pm ET, at least 1,248 meatpacking and food processing plants (563 meatpacking and 685 food processing) and 269 farms and production facilities have had confirmed cases of Covid-19. At least 75,540 workers (50,123 meatpacking workers, 14,051 food processing workers, and 11,366 farmworkers) have tested positive for Covid-19 and at least 340 workers (255 meatpacking workers, 46 food processing workers, and 39 farmworkers) have died."









Mapping Covid-19 outbreaks in the food system | Food and Environment Reporting Network


Since April 2020, FERN has been closely tracking the spread of Covid-19 at meatpacking plants, food processing facilities, and farms. This dashboard is home to our latest reporting on Covid-19 cases…



thefern.org





So, what's that? Only four faceless people die for every 1000 who tested positive. Insignificant, ain't it? Unless, of course, one or more of those 340 deaths included your mother or father or son or daughter or nephew or niece or your friends. Essential workers until they were stricken and replaced...


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## NoQuarter (Dec 11, 2020)

So whats the answer? No meat for the country for a couple years? tens of thousands without work and loosing their homes? Ultra high suicide rates? I don't know. We have drafted millions to go fight other peoples wars and possibly die.... I think better cleanup and testing of food production facilities is a good thing, but tell everyone to stay home for a year or more...What about the hog farmers? the butchers? people have to eat. I am willing to do my part... I grow the majority of my food. raise cattle, hogs, goats etc... I can only feed so many in my area when their starving. Weakened or elderly people should maybe stay home throughout the whole thing " their choice" but not the whole country. I see both sides but have never seen even a reasonable solution. I you have one that will work, please share it. 
Thanks my 3.25 worth. ( .02 adjusted for inflation.)


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## sour_grapes (Dec 11, 2020)

Remember 9/11? I seem to remember a significant curtailment of civil liberties after 9/11. Somehow that was deemed acceptable. Right now, we are experiencing approximately the same number of deaths EVERY DAY as happened on that awful morning.


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## hounddawg (Dec 11, 2020)

i watched the towers go down, standing on a strip mall roof, yes that was when bush stated the downfall of our nation,( certain people } were fine with the super spreader riots, where you can burn and destroy everything ,,recon from them,, how many got spread across our nation ? how many , but hell's bell's for the patriot's, i was merely telling about something that had occurred to me, was not aiming to start a argument , (certain folk } are free to drink what they want how they want, But Same Goes For Us Patriots Just The Same,,, 
Dawg


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## Newlyretired (Dec 12, 2020)

Sometimes their is not much difference between freedom and free dumb. I remember the last time I put on my mask, it was painful and took effort to get the strings around my ears, hey it even fogged up my glasses, do not know how I managed.
Aside from the people who have died from Covid or have short/long term lingering affects, the bigger issue right now is how does the healthcare system cope. For every Covid patient occupying a hospital bed there is a patient on the outside, maybe scheduled for a hip replacement, bypass surgery, cancer surgery, accident etc that now has to wait. That is where the bigger problems lies, but as I said it is my free dumb to be self serving and ignore the well being of other


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## balatonwine (Dec 12, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> and neither were wearing masks even though masks don't really help,



That is old news. Latest data and studies indicate that masks do help. They are not perfect. How much they help is open to debate. But every little be helps. And every little bit adds up to help a lot in total.

And while contact with food is probably not considered high risk (also based on data and available evidence), else meat packing plants would have to totally shut down, close contact to an unmasked persons is a problem especially with a positive person. And if she is working the cash register, that is very much a problem unless you pass your credit card or cash to her on a yard stick.

So you can probably enjoy your food, but lick your fingers clean, and do not touch your nose or eyes with them till you completely wash your hands. And maybe not going back till they "get it".

I mean seriously... Social convention and laws require most people to wear at least something like pants, and I have been to many proprietors (while growing up and when still living in the USA before I became an expat) that had signs that say "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". This anti mask wearing thing is simply silly. In the end, it is only another piece of clothing. Like pants. Like a shirt. Like shoes. I feel on some days what would happen (if still living in the USA**) if I just walking in with a mask as my only bit of "clothing" and seeing if I got service from those "right to freedom" establishments.....

** In Hungary, mask regulations are mandatory nation wide in buses, trains, stores, etc. Huge fines if you do not follow the regulations. Not to mention the current 8:00 PM stay at home curfew.


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## hounddawg (Dec 12, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> That is old news. Latest data and studies indicate that masks do help. They are not perfect. How much they help is open to debate. But every little be helps. And every little bit adds up to help a lot in total.
> 
> And while contact with food is probably not considered high risk (also based on data and available evidence), else meat packing plants would have to totally shut down, close contact to an unmasked persons is a problem especially with a positive person. And if she is working the cash register, that is very much a problem unless you pass your credit card or cash to her on a yard stick.
> 
> ...


the reason it is old news is because they keep changing their minds , don't know now know with this virus thing but up till the leading causes of death in USA, was #-1,cancer #-2, heart disease #-3, doctors,, 
Dawg
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 12, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> That is old news. Latest data and studies indicate that masks do help. They are not perfect. How much they help is open to debate. But every little be helps. And every little bit adds up to help a lot in total.
> 
> And while contact with food is probably not considered high risk (also based on data and available evidence), else meat packing plants would have to totally shut down, close contact to an unmasked persons is a problem especially with a positive person. And if she is working the cash register, that is very much a problem unless you pass your credit card or cash to her on a yard stick.
> 
> ...


so soked meat no problem, yet you say processing should be shut down , so what's the difference between raw meat and cooked meet sitting on a table open to the enclosed air with a china covid positive person together in a tightly enclosed space, after all open smoked meat sitting and being handling said meat, so in a tightly small enclosed area coughing so that very oxygen saturates you food?
sure
Dawg


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## winemanden (Dec 12, 2020)

People have the right to their own opinions, I have no objection to that. If they don't wear a mask it's down to them. Two reasons I wear a mask, 1- I think it might help to stop me catching Covid, 2- I might have Covid and not know it. I don't want to be responsible for passing it on, so I wear a mask to hopefully prevent it if I do have it.
What gets me is that some people who's views are different to mine are deliberately spreading false information about masks and vaccination.

One of the things the objectors say is that it's only Flu. 1918-19 Sixty millions died from Spanish Flu.


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 12, 2020)

*This virus appears to be relatively easy to kill, example just let your object sit three days at room temp and the virus particle will dry/ denature
*Food rules which are designed to prevent E. coli and salmonella outbreaks should be overkill in killing any virus particles on the raw food. The BBQ should have had county health visiting at least once a year to check/ renew the certificate up by the cash register, ,,, ie the process is competent to kill pathogens.
*I have not seen any industry guidance saying that food factories should be shut down for covid. If a process was designed to make sterile cans it still does and if a process produces raw turkey we still know it needs to be cooked. Yes I have seen guidance on how to clean and also how to keep employees from getting covid. Yes when infection rates in a meat plant are high it will close for the purpose of stopping the outbreak. Yes I have stories from a decade ago about plants shutting down for listeria or salmonella,,,, we are just following the common sense old rules. The number one new rule is having employees wear face masks at all times, because there is concern with any coughing, sneezing and even loud expressive vocalizations. We have had similar guidance occasionally in past years.
*Industry worries about post process contamination! ! and I would worry about post process contamination from an infected worker/ patron/ cashier/ owner who does it all. This is why glass sneeze guards are on the buffet line. This is why sick employees have always been encouraged to stay home (and we keep our sick kids out of school) (and county health can shut down an establishment if servers are obviously sick). We are new enough in this that I haven’t seen revised standards for covid.
*It is frustrating for the experts since infection is so variable, ,,, if you get hospitalized probably says more about your risk factors (age is a major risk in this as well as every other disease), ,,, and the good news is that most infections will be mild. I am waiting for antibody studies which estimate how many were asymptomatic (loss of taste and smell is reported in a high percentage of asymptomatic folks off Italy)


hounddawg said:


> so soked meat no problem, yet you say processing should be shut down , so what's the difference between raw meat and cooked meet sitting on a table open to the enclosed air with a china covid positive person together in a tightly enclosed space, after all open smoked meat sitting and being handling said meat, so in a tightly small enclosed area coughing so that very oxygen saturates you food?
> sure
> Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 12, 2020)

yup as many opinions as the big boys an girls keep going back and forth, bout to get whip lash from the back and forth, one thing for sure our health is not their priority just what fills their pockets, 
Dawg


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## bstnh1 (Dec 13, 2020)

Lots of rumors and false information out there. But the facts are the CDC has never put out a statement saying masks don't work; never put out a statement saying masks cause an increased risk of Covid; never put out a statement saying a mask cause a dangerous build-up of carbon dioxide in your blood, and has never recommended not wearing a mask other than in the very beginning when masks were in very short supply and the CDC said they should be saved for healthcare workers and those in close contact with sick persons.


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## bstnh1 (Dec 13, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> the reason it is old news is because they keep changing their minds , don't know now know with this virus thing but up till the leading causes of death in USA, was #-1,cancer #-2, heart disease #-3, doctors,,
> Dawg
> Dawg


On average, in the USA 655,000 people die each year from heart disease and about 606,000 dies each year from cancer. Covid isn't on the top. However, the *weekly* death rate from Covid recently surpassed the others earlier this month.


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Lots of rumors and false information out there. But the facts are the CDC has never put out a statement saying masks don't work; never put out a statement saying masks cause an increased risk of Covid; never put out a statement saying a mask cause a dangerous build-up of carbon dioxide in your blood, and has never recommended not wearing a mask other than in the very beginning when masks were in very short supply and the CDC said they should be saved for healthcare workers and those in close contact with sick persons.


ih the very beginning, so they start with a lie, hum, you put your beliefs in your mind and mine in mine, in the very beginning . a lie is a lie no matter the reason, at first, in the middle or lastly changes nothing, a lie is a lie, but like i said in deferent ways in other threads and this thread, you look at it your way and I'll do as i see fit, Fauci , surgeon general, big pharma, all have swayed to protect their self interest , that's one reason of hiding 70 years old meds that they cant make more on,,, Hydroxychloroquine, and more, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

Doctors say skeeters don't spread HIV. yet wont answer if a skeeter fills with contaminated blood then lands on you you smash it spreading that blood on you,, yes. yes the bite don't what about that belly full of contaminated blood, not to mention eggs have been deserted good for you, bad for you many times, it all goes to wha'ts best for those that seem live differently than they say, 
yawn, I'm bored,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

at the beginning of this,,, beings i have every condition for it being dangerous to me, is when i stocked up, made my decisions for myself, by when profiteers were getting busted , it was to late to protect ones self, yes at that very beginning was the time to decide for one's self instead of sheep-people-ing, facts seem to change weekly if not Daily, odd huh? 
Dawg


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 13, 2020)

_THERE IS VARIATION IN ALL OF LIFE, BY CROP YEAR, BY MONTHS AFTER HARVEST, BY HOW FAST THE DRIERS WERE RUN OFF THE FIELD, ETC, . . . 
Likewise one skilled in the art as in wine makes a guess as to what is real and collects experimental data on this years wine versus last years production and then tries to understand the rules for next years wine, YUP we get it wrong and make bad wine sometimes, , , , we cover our tracks by saying “we are 95% sure” or we are only “80% confident/ consistent in data” etc

COVID IS NEW AND WE ARE STILL LEARNING!  no it is not odd_

the way science works I collect experimental data on how rice will behave when it is run through a mill or parboil process, or instant process or flour mill and then I try it in a simulation of how home uses it or a cracker line in Georgia or a baby food plant.

The boss found it frustrating that I would tell him what was understood on a new problem and he spent politics on that guess/ understanding. Meanwhile I would start asking questions and find that old crop rice processes differently than new crop, or the silo was a mixed varieties of rice or the old standard Mars variety isn’t planted any more and the replacement doesn’t work. The science doesn’t change that fast, ,,,,,, the politics/ boss always ignored the 20% risk or the 5% risk and used emotion/ confidence to sell (keep his job) so yup he got caught with egg on his face. I find it odd that we humans like to ignore the conflicting information.
It is odd that we accept risk if we speed at 80 on a country road but don’t apply the same risk understanding to covid, ,,,,, or being 18 and getting pregnant.


hounddawg said:


> facts seem to change weekly if not Daily, odd huh? Dawg



we are still early in covid19 ,,, AND the folks that measure things already see that there is more than one covid strain therefore there will be a new covid29 or COVID35


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## balatonwine (Dec 13, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> the reason it is old news is because they keep changing their minds



What we had at the start was what one may call opinions based on "professional deformity". What I mean by that is experts and professionals get normalized in their profession to the "best practices" in an ideal professional situation for maximum efficiency. In a crisis, that may not be actual "best practice". Or in other words, not "real world reality", where even a little bit helping is better than nothing and demanding ideal efficiency is maybe counter productive. So initial statements that masks were not useful were based more on that "professional deformity" than real world, on the ground, needs. The idea that even if it ain't perfect, but anything helps, is now considered the better real world reality (a battle field analogy would be: bullets on target are ideal, but close enough is okay with hand grenades). Not to say the professionals were wrong. They just saw the world then through a different lens. But they have corrected themselves as times goes on because real scientists and professionals can say... okay, I got that wrong earlier, because adjusting views as more facts come in is normal, and not a sign of weakness, to a professional scientist (the technical term for this is Bayesian inference, which allows changes in thinking and conclusions as more and more information becomes available).

Hope this helps.


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> _THERE IS VARIATION IN ALL OF LIFE, BY CROP YEAR, BY MONTHS AFTER HARVEST, BY HOW FAST THE DRIERS WERE RUN OFF THE FIELD, ETC, . . .
> Likewise one skilled in the art as in wine makes a guess as to what is real and collects experimental data on this years wine versus last years production and then tries to understand the rules for next years wine, YUP we get it wrong and make bad wine sometimes, , , , we cover our tracks by saying “we are 95% sure” or we are only “80% confident/ consistent in data” etc
> 
> COVID IS NEW AND WE ARE STILL LEARNING!  no it is not odd_
> ...


oh i have no problem with any off that, just them stating facts before they have a clue,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> What we had at the start was what one may call opinions based on "professional deformity". What I mean by that is experts and professionals get normalized in their profession to the "best practices" in an ideal professional situation for maximum efficiency. In a crisis, that may not be actual "best practice". Or in other words, not "real world reality", where even a little bit helping is better than nothing and demanding ideal efficiency is maybe counter productive. So initial statements that masks were not useful were based more on that "professional deformity" than real world, on the ground, needs. The idea that even if it ain't perfect, but anything helps, is now considered the better real world reality (a battle field analogy would be: bullets on target are ideal, but close enough is okay with hand grenades). Not to say the professionals were wrong. They just saw the world then through a different lens. But they have corrected themselves as times goes on because real scientists and professionals can say... okay, I got that wrong earlier, because adjusting views as more facts come in is normal, and not a sign of weakness, to a professional scientist (the technical term for this is Bayesian inference, which allows changes in thinking and conclusions as more and more information becomes available).
> 
> Hope this helps.


a most eloquent way to say, taken for granted, i agree 100% with you, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> _THERE IS VARIATION IN ALL OF LIFE, BY CROP YEAR, BY MONTHS AFTER HARVEST, BY HOW FAST THE DRIERS WERE RUN OFF THE FIELD, ETC, . . .
> Likewise one skilled in the art as in wine makes a guess as to what is real and collects experimental data on this years wine versus last years production and then tries to understand the rules for next years wine, YUP we get it wrong and make bad wine sometimes, , , , we cover our tracks by saying “we are 95% sure” or we are only “80% confident/ consistent in data” etc
> 
> COVID IS NEW AND WE ARE STILL LEARNING!  no it is not odd_
> ...


you did take notice that i said SEEM TO CHANGE,, never stated that any fact changed, 
just SEEMED to change, after all life is changing every second, even to this very day the experts are still at odd's with each other, 
Dawg


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 13, 2020)

Edit,,, good point “seemed to change”
if someone states there is only one answer we’all know the guy is wrong much of the time


hounddawg said:


> oh i have no problem with any off that, just them stating facts before they have a clue,
> Dawg


if you look at many of my posts you will see that I give three or five options on how to rack or sulphite or deacidify and then let “y’all” decide which holds most risk and most benefit for; your winery/ flavors you like (high alcohol,,tannic crabs)/ available hardware. A good expert will give more than one choice,,, after all, everyone is dealing with a different set of boundaries/ work demands/ available crops/ ,,,, and y’all won’t be surprised if option “three” is best.

a clue, ,,, yes we all start somewhere, with a best guess ,,, wise people improve


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> Edit,,, good point “seemed to change”
> if someone states there is only one answer we’all know the guy is wrong much of the time
> 
> if you l,, but ook at many of my posts you will see that I give three or five options on how to rack or sulphite or deacidify and then let “y’all” decide which holds most risk and most benefit for; your winery/ flavors you like (high alcohol,,tannic crabs)/ available hardware. A good expert will give more than one choice,,, after all, everyone is dealing with a different set of boundaries/ work demands/ available crops/ ,,,, and y’all won’t be surprised if option “three” is best.
> ...


done all that back awe's, we're good, you can see from before i have no problem being opiniated lol.. to say the least, it's good to get the blood pumping during these endless days, kinda like 9/11
our nation changed again in the blink of an eye, and your right on, even Stephen Hawkins theories most were right but some were proven wrong after he passed, but i'd bet hard that he'd loved the debate, hehe biggest difference tween him and me is he was mostly right about things where as i tend to end up wrong, but what's one expect of one like me always taken the long way a round on my wine,,  
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 13, 2020)

so, i ain't whining about my BBQ no more, i threw some ribs out to thaw, and when this rain moves out I'm going to smoke me some both pull meat and a couple racks of ribs, ain't sure how much hickory i got,,, but i know i got plenty of white oak by the smoker, the next time i run my mouth would one of yawl please come by and hit me with a rock,,,, ribs are pork, only thing i got to mull over is if my pull meat is going to be beef brisket or pork roast, long day for a broken down country boy, took longer tinkering with my apple sauce,, lol,, but i got 12.5 gallons moved and the apple sauce with 12 more gallons that got more pectic enzyme, was half and half in 4 carboys, now 2 that's just wine and 2 that's going to be i hope,, night world,,,
Dawg


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## cmason1957 (Dec 13, 2020)

@Eric Huser , I belive you are vastly mistaken about cat rate so far this year. You may wish to read over these slightly better statistics than the ones you seem to have posted. 








Meme Distorts Facts on Annual Death Statistics - FactCheck.org


An image circulating on social media erroneously claims that the total number of deaths in the U.S. this year is significantly down compared to previous years. The meme -- which implies COVID-19 restrictions weren't needed -- actually uses an incomplete figure for 2020 and makes a flawed comparison.




www.factcheck.org






As well, the CDC always was consistent on saying masks helped. Initially, though there weren't enough to go around so they said to keep them for the hospital workers. Please leave political views or of the discussion, they have no place on this forum.


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## winemanden (Dec 14, 2020)

Just got this on Facebook




This is the watch of a dead man. He died of Covid-19 a few days ago. My team and I spent multiple hours in sweaty plastic isolation gear trying in vain to save him. I took care of him in ICU for three nights before that. Nothing we did worked, and he slowly suffocated over a week. Two weeks before that he was up on his roof making repairs. He had been a healthy 70-year-old man. In his dying moments, his wife could not be next to him. I held his hand and put my communication badge up to his ear so that perhaps he could hear his wife’s voice through it while his heart beat its last. I’m begging anyone who reads this to take the pandemic seriously. Mask wearing and distancing are not political issues. No one is trying to take away your rights. This is about giving a sh*t about your families, your friends, your coworkers. Your local health care workers are not ok. We are tired. We are emotionally drained. We are breaking. We need your help in this. While the sentiment is nice -- we’re not asking for special recognition, or signs, or pizzas in the break room. What we’re asking for... what we need... is for the public to ease some of the pressure off of the system by making an effort to not fan the flames. No one will argue that this is a simple fix, and we’re all tired of isolating. No one wants small businesses to suffer. No one wants to not see their friends. No one wants to miss holidays with their family... but the next time you consider going to a concert, a crowded church service, or just running in to the gas station without a mask, remember the loved ones you are putting at risk. Remember the army of health care workers putting their health on the line to save you. Please help us help you.


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## hounddawg (Dec 14, 2020)

winemanden said:


> Just got this on Facebook
> View attachment 69380
> View attachment 69380
> 
> ...


Amen ma'am to every word you said, and you're in my prayers as is all all medical workers and victims, me and mine have all adhered all from last march,, even doctor visits till insurance companies forced doctor visits on me, it's cheaper for them for me to go to the doctor rather than a hospital stay,.in the last 3 year , over half that time has been in the hospital, of that better than 80% was either ICU or SICU,
God Bless
Dawg


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## jswordy (Dec 18, 2020)

I currently live in the highest daily case rate per 100,000 county in the highest daily case rate state that is - right now - the worst place on EARTH for the spread of COVID. (I say currently because this has really caused me to wonder if I want to continue living in this area in my retirement.)

Welcome to Lincoln County, Tennessee, where virtually no one is masked and you get dirty looks if you wear one. 

We have not gone out for months due to the ignorance, except to travel to neighboring Alabama - which has a mask order and so has a LOT lower rate of infection - for essentials only like groceries every 4-6 weeks or so.


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## bstnh1 (Dec 18, 2020)

McSwain said:


> It's not that you haven't went out due to ignorance of others, you are living in a place that represents what our free country used to be.
> We should be living in a country where you can wear a mask if you want and don't if you don't want to... If you're scared, stay home and stop trying to trample on my rights based on your fear.
> In 1969 when the Shanghai Flu was killing millions, we had Woodstock... That's when we were a free country. Now "Free Country" is just an illusion.



How do you rationalize that you have a "right" to infect others with a virus that you may be carrying? If I have a deadly, highly contagious disease, do I have the right to breath, cough and sneeze next to you? Should I have the "right" to build and operate a rock crushing plant next door to you? Should I have the right to drive down a residential street at 85 mph? Without some reasonable rules and regulations, you don't have a society. You have nothing but a crowd of people.


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## jswordy (Dec 18, 2020)

McSwain said:


> It's not that you haven't went out due to ignorance of others, you are living in a place that represents what our free country used to be.
> We should be living in a country where you can wear a mask if you want and don't if you don't want to... If you're scared, stay home and stop trying to trample on my rights based on your fear.
> In 1969 when the Shanghai Flu was killing millions, we had Woodstock... That's when we were a free country. Now "Free Country" is just an illusion.



Yeah. Come on down, then, to literally the worst place in the WORLD to live if you don't want to catch COVID. You'll fit in perfectly, and be sick in a month. BUT STAY AWAY FROM ME!

I find it funny that in a state that has no masking mandate, people still buckle up by habit because there's a law against it. 

I doubt I'd find much freedom in a box with six feet of dirt on my chest.

The 1969 flu pandemic killed 100,000 Americans. As of now, COVID has killed 311,000. We should have grown SMARTER since 1969, but NOPE!


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 18, 2020)

Well said


bstnh1 said:


> How do you rationalize that you have a "right" to infect others with a virus that you may be carrying? If I have a deadly, highly contagious disease, do I have the right to breath, cough and sneeze next to you? Should I have the "right" to build and operate a rock crushing plant next door to you? Should I have the right to drive down a residential street at 85 mph? Without some reasonable rules and regulations, you don't have a society. You have nothing but a crowd of people.


and industry does not have a right to sell under processed canned goods,,, and we do not have a right to sell the instant rice from the day a worker stuck his hand in a rotary valve aNd his fingers went in the line,,, and we don’t have a right to mislabel what is in a package,,, and we do not have a right to sell Chinese shrimp treated with formaldehyde to reduce micro count,,, etc, etc. . . and no I hate wearing a hair net simply to protect what you eat,,, but that is the rule. The rules changed when The Jungle was published, , folks became aware of sins some processors did.
i watch FOX to find out what is important, and I have yet to see a story like @winemanden tells above, apparently it is not important, , , or not real to the network (I have suggested FOX does stories on covid/ you can too)

_How do we build a society which stops US versus THEM mentality? , , , doesn’t society do better when we all win? 
To me the liability rules are too weak if we/ industry/ or I can lie and get away with it._


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## NoQuarter (Dec 18, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> How do you rationalize that you have a "right" to infect others with a virus that you may be carrying? If I have a deadly, highly contagious disease, do I have the right to breath, cough and sneeze next to you? Should I have the "right" to build and operate a rock crushing plant next door to you? Should I have the right to drive down a residential street at 85 mph? Without some reasonable rules and regulations, you don't have a society. You have nothing but a crowd of people.


 I don't believe anyone has a right to breath, cough or sneeze on me weather infected or not. you could get hurt doing that to others...
You must live in a place where there is no common sense or even good manners.
Where i am from if you wear a mask no-one would approach you....they will respect your fear. If a store required a mask, they would wear one or go to a different store. they would not get in your face or breath on you unless you start some kind of ruckus. They also wash their hands they learned that as children.
Making food producers wear protective hairnets and masks is common sense. A iron worker is better off with a hardhat.
We were ordered to not go to work several months ago.... most folks returned to work before loosing their home, getting divorced or committing suicide thankfully. Closes cities to me have had much of that going on, not to mention many many businesses going down (along with all their employees.) Hard to pay 5,000 month mortgage when you are not allowed to stay open. Would you give up your house and maybe a spouse to save the life of a stranger? You are a better man than me.
I don't watch FOX but I would never watch any news media with sob stories all the time. but that's just me. 
OKAY, venting over.


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## hounddawg (Dec 18, 2020)

NoQuarter said:


> I don't believe anyone has a right to breath, cough or sneeze on me weather infected or not. you could get hurt doing that to others...
> You must live in a place where there is no common sense or even good manners.
> Where i am from if you wear a mask no-one would approach you....they will respect your fear. If a store required a mask, they would wear one or go to a different store. they would not get in your face or breath on you unless you start some kind of ruckus. They also wash their hands they learned that as children.
> Making food producers wear protective hairnets and masks is common sense. A iron worker is better off with a hardhat.
> ...


AMEN
Dawg


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## bstnh1 (Dec 18, 2020)

NoQuarter said:


> I don't believe anyone has a right to breath, cough or sneeze on me weather infected or not. you could get hurt doing that to others...
> You must live in a place where there is no common sense or even good manners.
> Where i am from if you wear a mask no-one would approach you....they will respect your fear. If a store required a mask, they would wear one or go to a different store. they would not get in your face or breath on you unless you start some kind of ruckus. They also wash their hands they learned that as children.
> Making food producers wear protective hairnets and masks is common sense. A iron worker is better off with a hardhat.
> ...


I thin you responded to the wrong post.


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