# Mexican v. Italian carboy



## cimbaliw (May 26, 2015)

I was racking down 4 batches of wine yesterday. Specifically from 23L Italian to 23L Mexican carboys and found that after leaving the lees behind there is a little over 375ml difference between the two types of jugs. Whether good calculations or dumb luck, I left the wine room with four full Mexican carboys, a full 750ml bottle and an ounce of overage as a taste. Hope someone else finds this information helpful.

BC


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## Ktaylor (May 1, 2017)

How do you tell if your carboy is Italian or Mexican?


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## dcbrown73 (May 1, 2017)

Never heard of a Mexican carboy. All of the ones I've ever seen are Italian glass.


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## Stevelaz (May 1, 2017)

Watch out for those Mexican carboys, your wine could turn out spicy! lol...


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## Floandgary (May 1, 2017)

Glass is made all over the world. I have some Italian, Mexican, Venezuelan, USA even!!! Let me add that the jugs were made there but cannot declare positively that they are specifically wine carboys...


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## richmke (May 1, 2017)

> there is a little over 375ml difference between the two types of jugs.


There is about 1/2 gallon difference between the largest and smallest. I save the largest one for racking. I rack in to the temp carboy, clean the old one, and then rack back.



> All of the ones I've ever seen are Italian glass.



I have a French carboy.


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## BlueStimulator (May 1, 2017)

Careful somebody may want to build a wall::::


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## Brian55 (May 1, 2017)

I would advise avoiding carboys from China. I inadvertently acquired one and it's not even close to the same quality as the Italian carboys that make up the rest of my collection.


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## cmason1957 (May 1, 2017)

I have two or three Mexican carboys. They are slightly smaller than the Italian ones, probably close to 23 liters than 23.5. They are as well made as the Italian ones as far as I can tell. 

And yes they do add a nice spicy note to all my wine, but I like that.


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## hounddawg (May 2, 2017)

Mexican and American carboys are older carboys, but are good quality carboys just older, but as stated above stir way clear of any Chinese carboys they are thin, and break easy, 
Dawg


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## Doodlewine (May 2, 2017)

I was surprised when I asked morewine/morebeer that the carboys the sell are from China. Didn't order after that information.


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## Brian55 (May 2, 2017)

Doodlewine said:


> I was surprised when I asked morewine/morebeer that the carboys the sell are from China. Didn't order after that information.



That's where I inadvertently acquired my only Chinese carboy. I was very surprised to receive something of such low quality from them. Everything else I've purchased from them has been decent quality.


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## Vlabruz (Mar 25, 2022)

Doodlewine said:


> I was surprised when I asked morewine/morebeer that the carboys the sell are from China. Didn't order after that information.


Old post, but so are thier topping marbles


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## Brian55 (Mar 25, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> Old post, but so are thier topping marbles


They've since started carrying the Italian carboys as well, for a few more dollars: Italian Glass Carboy (6 Gallon) | MoreWine
Homebrew Ohio has Italian carboys as well for the same price: Glass Carboy - 6 Gallon


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## Rocky (Mar 25, 2022)

Of all the carboys that I have presently, none were purchased from a wine maker supplier. I currently have about 20 to 25 carboys, including 5- and 6-gallon types, both plastic and glass. All of these were purchased through Craig's list. Last spring, when I thought I was getting out of the hobby (silly me!), I sold more than 40 carboys of all sizes, 3-gallon, 5-gallon, 6-gallon and 6.5-gallon and I would guess that I bought no more than 5 of them from dealers. My point is, keep an eye on Craig's list, garage sales, yard sales, etc. You will find excellent material for a fraction of the cost. For example, a few months back I bought 2 each 6-gallon glass and 2 each 5-gallon glass for $40. They were dirty and needed a good cleaning, but that was no problem and they cleaned up like new.


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## Rocky (Apr 3, 2022)

Here is an update on what I was referencing in the above posting. I saw this ad in our local Craig's List:

Well-overdue Garage Sale! - garage & moving sales - yard estate sale (craigslist.org)

If you look at the ad, you will see 2 each 6-gallon carboys among other wine making items. Unfortunately for me, I got there too late for the carboys (they sold for $10 each!), but I did get all in the picture for $20, no negotiation and I am sure I could have paid less. The box contains 24 bags of assorted oak chips and powders. The Vinator is missing the pump, but I only wanted the drying tree, the Auto Siphon was new in a plastic bag, the carboy brush was new, the stirring paddle just needed a cleaning as did the floor corker, which works better than the one I have.



Keep your eye on garage sales!


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## VinesnBines (Apr 3, 2022)

Craigslist is super if people in your area use it. Some areas of the country are a little behind.
Anyway I got 9 car boys (3, 5 and 6 gallon) for $100. With another post I got two 600 L variable stainless tanks (Marchisio), a crusher de stemer and stand, a bladder press, more carboys,9 cases of bottles, a two barrel rack and two 60 gallon barrels (probably can’t reuse the barrels) bottle washers, bottle racks, three wire wine racks, spoons, paddles, a pump, hoses and more -$2500.


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## BarrelMonkey (Apr 3, 2022)

Brian55 said:


> That's where I inadvertently acquired my only Chinese carboy. I was very surprised to receive something of such low quality from them. Everything else I've purchased from them has been decent quality.



I see that the comments about Chinese carboys are 5 years old, but @Brian55 what's wrong with them? Has your inadvertent purchase been as disappointing as you thought back then?

I bought 2x 3 gal and 2x 5 gal carboys from Morewine last year. They came well packed, i have used them successfully and as far as I can tell they are free of defects. I recently acquired 9 more carboys (5 and 6.5gal), and although I am not sure of their provenance (I got them second hand) I don't see an obvious difference in quality.


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (Apr 4, 2022)

Chinese carboys can be a real health hazard as all of them made there are not lead and cadmium free and when you store acidic liquids in them you are asking for real trouble.

Here is a link to vendors in China selling carboys, some for beer and wine fermentation others are not. But they use the exact same molds so you can't tell them apart.

If I was not sure where the Chinese carboy came from and what it was imported for I definitely wouldn't use it for anything other than a biggy bank. Chinese products are often forged, meaning they will say it's safe or a certain grade but it isn't. Try buying certified steel from them, they will bait and switch you every time or they will fill a container with substandard on the bottom and good stuff on the top for inspectors. Remember the Chinese drywall issues? Chinese rebar is also a huge problem. I would probably never trust a Chinese made carboy, the lead and cadmium poisoning risks are way too high.



China Glass Carboy, Glass Carboy Manufacturers, Suppliers, Price | Made-in-China.com



Here is a listing for a carboy for "decoration", Nothing says lead free. This is why Chinese carboys can be so suspect.









[Hot Item] Wholesale 3/5/5/6/6.5 Gallon Glass Carboy Glass Bottles for Decoration


Volume: 2000-5000 Ml Material: Glass Sealing Type: Screw Cap Bottleneck: Wide Mouthed Bottle Shape: Square Age Group: Adult



tftechglass.en.made-in-china.com





If the factory has not been ISO 7086-1:2019 certified they do not have the certification for food safe glass. ☠


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## BarrelMonkey (Apr 4, 2022)

Fox Squirrel Vin said:


> Chinese carboys can be a real health hazard as all of them made there are not lead and cadmium free and when you store acidic liquids in them you are asking for real trouble.



Do you mean 'not all of them are lead and cadmium free'? As written it suggests that all Chinese carboys are problematic.

The morewine description specifically states that they are lead free. ETA: They also note that they have tested and confirmed this.


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## Brian55 (Apr 4, 2022)

BarrelMonkey said:


> I see that the comments about Chinese carboys are 5 years old, but @Brian55 what's wrong with them? Has your inadvertent purchase been as disappointing as you thought back then?
> 
> I bought 2x 3 gal and 2x 5 gal carboys from Morewine last year. They came well packed, i have used them successfully and as far as I can tell they are free of defects. I recently acquired 9 more carboys (5 and 6.5gal), and although I am not sure of their provenance (I got them second hand) I don't see an obvious difference in quality.


The glass is very inconsistent and has a lot of imperfections compared to the others. So much so, that I'm afraid to put it under vacuum for degassing. The slightly higher price of the Italian made carboys is well worth it, just for peace of mind.


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## BarrelMonkey (Apr 4, 2022)

Brian55 said:


> The glass is very inconsistent and has a lot of imperfections compared to the others. So much so, that I'm afraid to put it under vacuum for degassing. The slightly higher price of the Italian made carboys is well worth it, just for peace of mind.



Thanks for the reply. Hopefully I got lucky with some good ones.


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## Steve Wargo (Apr 4, 2022)

Rocky said:


> Here is an update on what I was referencing in the above posting. I saw this ad in our local Craig's List:
> 
> Well-overdue Garage Sale! - garage & moving sales - yard estate sale (craigslist.org)
> 
> ...


Good buy. When a person is selling good stuff at firesale prices I just pay what they are asking for the items. If they start too high, I will make my best fair price offer, and I tell them so. They either say yes or no. I don't waste my time. You got a great deal.


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## wineview (Apr 4, 2022)

Ktaylor said:


> How do you tell if your carboy is Italian or Mexican?


The Italian carboys generally have a pattern along the side and the glass feels heavy. It’s also stamped on the bottom. Mexico made carboys that I have come across have smooth sides and Mexico is stamped on the bottom as well.


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## tmcfadden932 (Apr 4, 2022)

The difference between the two is the annealing process. The old world glass makers do this, the Mexican do not and the carboys will break for no apparent reason. Annealing (glass) - Wikipedia


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## Fox Squirrel Vin (Apr 4, 2022)

If they sourced them from a factory with an ISO 7086-1:2019 certification they they are probably fine. I've imported a lot from china and I learned my lesson with them. If you are not there with an inspector when they put the seal on the container, they will screw you. They are not honest people to deal with unless you are a huge company they make a lot of money from and would be afraid to lose you as a customer. Everybody else gets the crap.

I don't know how morewine can test the glass without sending it to a lab and why would you even bother with Chinese carboys when the Italian ones are not that much more expensive and you know you are getting a legit product? I would only buy a container of Chinese carboys if I got them insanely cheap and if they were insanely cheap I would wonder why. The chinese are not stupid and they use that intelligence to make you think your getting something you are not.


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## Rocky (Apr 7, 2022)

I should have knocked on wood! I had to order two carboys today from Label Peelers! Me and my "big fingers."

I just know I am going to see a bunch of carboys in a yard sale now.


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## Jusatele (May 30, 2022)

My nephew is a broker for Chinese manufacturing and imports and he avoids their products like the plague. 
Sourcing non Chinese made products can be hard as it is a world based on profits.
but I think the reason for the thread is about carboy sizes. I have always had to mark my carboys in volume increments, because I have all my recipes in gallons I mark them in gallons and quarts. lately have been converting over to liters as it seems to make since. 750 and liter bottles seem to be the norm.

Which brings up a question. If the rest of the world deals in liters, and we do in gallons, are the differences in the amount the carboys hold because vendors buy carboys that are approximately 3, 5 or 6 gallon? And seeing as there is no fill to line on a carboy, who decides how much is full and uses that as a standard?


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## winemaker81 (May 31, 2022)

Jusatele said:


> And seeing as there is no fill to line on a carboy, who decides how much is full and uses that as a standard?


The exact volume of carboys appears to vary by manufacturer, and I have no idea how they decide what "full" means. Mine are not exactly consistent, although they're not that far off from each other.

In general, 5 US gallon /19 liter carboys hold more than the stated volume when topped up to within 3" of the stopper. I assume 5.25 gallons / 20 liters, and that fills 'er up.


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## CDrew (May 31, 2022)

I have a couple of Mexican carboys and the only thing that stands out, is the opening is just slightly larger than other Carboys whether Italian or Chinese. The volume held is plus or minus 5% of stated volume at least.
Here are the markings on a Mexican carboy of unknown age, but glass is just as heavy and nice as Italian carboys I have.


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## mikewatkins727 (May 31, 2022)

We have discussed this issue in the past and it comes down to the annealing of the glass. It seems the Mexican glass annealing process is lacking. IMHO.


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## Jusatele (May 31, 2022)

WineMaker 81
that is what I was getting at, 5 gallons is more than likely a 20 liter carboy. Even a 22 would not seem strange, but 19 is not likely. And even head space could be subjective. === I mean is there even a standard?

Given then we are operating in a country that uses quarts and gallons in a world that uses liters, I think we are on our own when trying to buy a gallon incremented carboy


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## Jusatele (May 31, 2022)

Basically, the USA needs to get their head out of their #&@ and switch over to the metric system


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## wineview (May 31, 2022)

CDrew said:


> I have a couple of Mexican carboys and the only thing that stands out, is the opening is just slightly larger than other Carboys whether Italian or Chinese. The volume held is plus or minus 5% of stated volume at least.
> Here are the markings on a Mexican carboy of unknown age, but glass is just as heavy and nice as Italian carboys I have.
> View attachment 89035


I have some old Mexican carboys. After a bit of research I found that the Mexican versions from the 1960’s are as strong as any Italian one. Today however, I would steer clear of them.


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## wineview (May 31, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> The exact volume of carboys appears to vary by manufacturer, and I have no idea how they decide what "full" means. Mine are not exactly consistent, although they're not that far off from each other.
> 
> In general, 5 US gallon /19 liter carboys hold more than the stated volume when topped up to within 3" of the stopper. I assume 5.25 gallons / 20 liters, and that fills 'er up.


I’m not sure manufacturers think like wine makers and the importance of topping up when they indicate volume.


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## winemaker81 (May 31, 2022)

@Jusatele, @wineview, I believe we're all more-or-less on the same wavelength.

I suspect 5 gallon carboys were originally created to fulfill a specific need, and it wasn't winemaking. Sales to home winemakers is more recent, and most likely an opportunistic market. They are designed to hold at least 5 US gallons, and they do that. That is the most likely standard.

The carboys I sold 30+ years ago were 5 gallon, not dual marked 19 liters. With the rise of the largely Canadian-based kit vendors, it may be that things got retrofitted for both markets.

I further suspect the 6 US gallon / 23 liter kits came into vogue to ensure the 5 gallon carboys would be filled. The 6/23 carboys came into play as it provides a single container that holds an entire 6/23 kit, eliminating the need for more containers. All an evolution, not a plan.

I had a couple of WineArt boxes from the 90's in my attic, which I tossed 10 years ago. By current kit standards, they were tiny. The info on the packages might give us more of a clue.

When I was in middle school (long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away) my science teacher said the US was going metric. Things would be easier now if we had done it.


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## FunkedOut (Jun 2, 2022)

I've got a half dozen or so Italian carboys all sourced from the same vendor. There are a couple that hold considerably more or less than the others.
I've never measured them, but I know, sometimes I can over flow the receiving carboy when racking a clear wine and not leaving much behind.


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## Jusatele (Jun 4, 2022)

A lot of beer brewers use 6 gallon for primary and then rack into 5 gallon, head space and not having to top off is the reason.

I do believe that we are a secondary market that just showed up, just like a lot of stuff filters down from beer homebrewers. Those guys are doing great stuff with fermenters and other equipment. Their studies with yeast are great reads, as well as the yeast propagation stuff they have for small scale use.
We are a niche market to the beer stores so we need to allow it to filter down to us. My years of beer brewing taught me a lot of stuff I find useful in wine making but they are two separate hobbies in as many ways as they are the same. 

I do not think they will ever make carboys just for us that are accurate to 5 gallons as imperial measurements are only in a few countries anymore. We seem lucky they make them close.


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## wineview (Jun 4, 2022)

Jusatele said:


> A lot of beer brewers use 6 gallon for primary and then rack into 5 gallon, head space and not having to top off is the reason.
> 
> I do believe that we are a secondary market that just showed up, just like a lot of stuff filters down from beer homebrewers. Those guys are doing great stuff with fermenters and other equipment. Their studies with yeast are great reads, as well as the yeast propagation stuff they have for small scale use.
> We are a niche market to the beer stores so we need to allow it to filter down to us. My years of beer brewing taught me a lot of stuff I find useful in wine making but they are two separate hobbies in as many ways as they are the same.
> ...



I agree 100%. When wort was in primary I needed that extra head space and a blow off tube.


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## ratflinger (Jun 4, 2022)

If you are using topping off marbles (as I do) then a search will find US made marbles. And you only want the clear ones. I just won't buy things from China if the items are for food, I do not trust them one bit and there is no legal recourse if they make you sick.


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## wineview (Jun 4, 2022)

ratflinger said:


> If you are using topping off marbles (as I do) then a search will find US made marbles. And you only want the clear ones. I just won't buy things from China if the items are for food, I do not trust them one bit and there is no legal recourse if they make you sick.



Personally I would skip the marbles and top off with some of my own wine.


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## ratflinger (Jun 5, 2022)

I do both, depends upon the situation.


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