# My latest batch of Cab is on its way!



## Fedoradude (May 8, 2016)

Last weekend I mixed up a Winexpert Cab Sauv kit in my primary fermenter. Based on some opinions I read on here, I never clamped the lid down tight on the fermenter. Rather I just set it on top and let it ferment for 7 days.


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## Fedoradude (May 8, 2016)

Here we are 7 days later. My batch was right at the upper limit the WE instructions said was acceptable for racking. So...we racked it tonight!


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## Fedoradude (May 8, 2016)

We're getting better at this process. Sterilizing, racking and cleanup took less than an hour. And topping up only took about a half bottle of my previous batch (compared with 2 full bottles last time. (less sediment this time?)

Anyway, the 10-day 2ndary fermentation timer has started.


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## sour_grapes (May 8, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> We're getting better at this process. Sterilizing, racking and cleanup took less than an hour.



Nice! I swear, I cannot do _anything_ in the wine room in less than 90 minutes! Good work!


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## NorCal (May 9, 2016)

Very nice. How does it taste?


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## Putterrr (May 9, 2016)

When going to the secondary, racking some sediment over is no big deal.

Good Luck


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## Fedoradude (May 9, 2016)

NorCal said:


> Very nice. How does it taste?



We didn't test it at this stage.


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## Fedoradude (May 9, 2016)

Putterrr said:


> When going to the secondary, racking some sediment over is no big deal.
> 
> Good Luck



Thanks. I remember the last batch (my 1st ever) I racked it 3X in the carboy trying to eliminate sediment. Hopefully won't have that much effort involved this time.


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## Fedoradude (May 9, 2016)

sour_grapes said:


> Nice! I swear, I cannot do _anything_ in the wine room in less than 90 minutes! Good work!



A wine room! What a great idea! Thinking, thinking.... (The wife is cringing, cringing....)


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## Floandgary (May 9, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> We're getting better at this process. Sterilizing, racking and cleanup took less than an hour. And topping up only took about a half bottle of my previous batch (compared with 2 full bottles last time. (less sediment this time?)
> 
> Anyway, the 10-day 2ndary fermentation timer has started.



So I hope you did the K-meta treatment and the timer has been set for 1 yr. (with a couple of rackovers @3 months). Should be mighty flavorful and CO2 free by then


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## Floandgary (May 9, 2016)

sour_grapes said:


> Nice! I swear, I cannot do _anything_ in the wine room in less than 90 minutes! Good work!



Paul,, that's because "keeping your whistle properly wet" while you work also adds some time


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## Fedoradude (May 9, 2016)

Floandgary said:


> So I hope you did the K-meta treatment and the timer has been set for 1 yr. (with a couple of rackovers @3 months). Should be mighty flavorful and CO2 free by then



Not really. 

My last batch was bottled after 3 rackings. We are planning on bottle aging most of it (and most of this batch) for 1 year to reach that full flavor you're talking about.

As for this batch, there wasn't any addition of ingredients required by direction at this first racking. There's a stirring that is supposed to happen after a few days to get the particles that have settled back into suspension and then after 10 days in the carboy (supposedly) it's ready for the addition of those other ingredients and fining.


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## Fedoradude (May 12, 2016)

Putterrr said:


> When going to the secondary, racking some sediment over is no big deal.



That's good. I looked at it this morning and there's a pretty healthy sediment layer in the bottom of the carboy. 

This go round I will remember to stir that sediment vigorously back into suspension as the directions say to do. 

I know that helps get rid of the Co2 but I'm wondering what it does for the nose and taste at this point?


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## JDesCotes (May 12, 2016)

Stir sediment back into the wine...? I've never heard of this...


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## Johnd (May 12, 2016)

A very typical step in many of the WE kits.


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## Fedoradude (May 12, 2016)

JDesCotes said:


> Stir sediment back into the wine...?



Good, cause I've got probably 1.5" of sediment to stir back in. 

What I dont' understand about this particular WE kit is that it recommends racking it only once - from the carboy into bottles. With the sediment I've seen in two batches of this kit now, I can't imagine bottling right away. There'd be a ton of sediment making it into the bottles.


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## JDesCotes (May 12, 2016)

I would imagine you dose it with chitosan/kisosol. That will take all of the suspended particles out fairly efficiently (assuming you don't have active fermentation still going)


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## sour_grapes (May 12, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> Good, cause I've got probably 1.5" of sediment to stir back in.
> 
> What I dont' understand about this particular WE kit is that it recommends racking it only once - from the carboy into bottles. With the sediment I've seen in two batches of this kit now, I can't imagine bottling right away. There'd be a ton of sediment making it into the bottles.



I agree. I am more cautious than their instructions. I only bottle from a vessel that has no sediment at all in it. (In my case, I use a bottling bucket, where I transfer wine from the carboy to the bucket before bottling. I can afford to leave a little wine + sediment in the carboy, since my carboys hold 31+ bottles.


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## Fedoradude (May 15, 2016)

Here's an idea of the sediment that's settled in 2ndary fermentation.


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## barbiek (May 15, 2016)

Putterrr said:


> When going to the secondary, racking some sediment over is no big deal.
> 
> Good Luck


Yep and I don't use the tip for the first racking to carry over some yeast to make sure it ferments out


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## Fedoradude (May 22, 2016)

Hmmm. I'm a little concerned....

How fast do the sulfite & fining packs "sink" into the batch?

I went to add my 3rd, 4th and 5th additive packs this afternoon and misjudged how much space I had to do so in the top of the carboy. In other words I didnt' thief out hardly anywhere near enough batch. So as I added the mixtures, I kept having to thief more out to create room to add more chem/fining stuff.

I just hope I wasn't thiefing out the very chems I'd just added in and inadvertently ruined the batch....


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## Johnd (May 22, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> Hmmm. I'm a little concerned....
> 
> How fast do the sulfite & fining packs "sink" into the batch?
> 
> ...



I did the same thing on my very first wine and was a nervous wreck. Relax, it'll work out. Im assuming you added KMS, sorbate, and chitosan. 
If you dumped KMS powder, it sunk. If mixed with a liquid before adding, no worries. Other than that, nothing else will ruin your wine. If you're worried and can't sleep, add 1/8 tsp. 
It's a red and will clear without fining agents......in time, that's not a recipe for ruination, just patience. If it was chitosan, that stuff is thick and probably sunk quickly to the bottom. 
Sorbate floats some if added as powder, if your wine is dry, you don't need it anyway.


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## Fedoradude (May 22, 2016)

Johnd said:


> I did the same thing on my very first wine and was a nervous wreck. Relax, it'll work out. Im assuming you added KMS, sorbate, and chitosan.
> If you dumped KMS powder, it sunk. If mixed with a liquid before adding, no worries. Other than that, nothing else will ruin your wine. If you're worried and can't sleep, add 1/8 tsp.
> It's a red and will clear without fining agents......in time, that's not a recipe for ruination, just patience. If it was chitosan, that stuff is thick and probably sunk quickly to the bottom.
> Sorbate floats some if added as powder, if your wine is dry, you don't need it anyway.



Thanks for the reassurance. I did as the directions said and mixed packets 3 and 4 with water before I tried to add it.


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## Fedoradude (May 23, 2016)

One thing though; I wasn't ever able to "fit" the thiefed out wine (& hopefully no newly added chems) back into the carboy.


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## Johnd (May 23, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> One thing though; I wasn't ever able to "fit" the thiefed out wine (& hopefully no newly added chems) back into the carboy.



Keep it in a properly sized vessel with little headspace (maybe put a little pinch of KMS in it) until your next racking and use it as top up wine.


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## Fedoradude (May 23, 2016)

Johnd said:


> Keep it in a properly sized vessel with little headspace (maybe put a little pinch of KMS in it) until your next racking and use it as top up wine.



Should've thought of that, but...we tossed it out.


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## Boatboy24 (May 23, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> Should've thought of that, but...we tossed it out.



You should have at least drank it!!

Waste not, want not.


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## Fedoradude (May 23, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> You should have at least drank it!!
> 
> Waste not, want not.



I know! What the hell wuz I thinkin'>


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## Fedoradude (May 24, 2016)

Gotta admit, i'm still worried if I have the right amount of sulfites etc going in this batch based on my faux pas.

UPDATE: Stopped by the local winemaking shop and talked to the experts. They felt like I hadn't hurt anything, which was a relief.


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## Fedoradude (Jun 5, 2016)

Well, I'm encouraged. Racked this batch tonight and before I did, took a tasting. Here's my thoughts:

Smells like wine but not as prominent
Clear when glass held up to light
Taste is a bit flat where fruit is concerned.

Here's a couple of iPhone pics. Seems to be fining nicely, too.


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## Fedoradude (Jun 17, 2016)

Well, I bottled the batch tonight. All things considered, it turned out ok. Notes from the samples:

Good color but seems a little cloudy (unfortunately shook it around a little moving carboy into bottling position.)

Faint to medium Cherry nose

Tastes a little softer, smoother and more fruit forward throughout the taste than at last racking.

Used synthetic corks this time around and not the traditional corks. Still have a lot to learn about corking properly for resulting in an astheticly corked bottle.

I didn’t take a specific gravity reading tonight just before bottling, but I did have 2 full glasses after bottling and it gave me a healthy buzz.


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## cmsben61 (Jun 17, 2016)

nice labels


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## JohnT (Jun 17, 2016)

If you do not mind, Here are some tips... 

- IMHO, the best fill line is a finger's width up from the neck of the bottle. 

If you level is too high, the cork will not go in all the way (or you will have a squirt of wine in your eye. 

Too low and you introduce too much air into the bottle and with too much head space. This can lead to oxidation and cork failure. 

- You want the cork inserted into the bottle to be 1/8" below the bottle's rim (or countersunk). IMHO, this maximizes the seal of the cork. 

- I hate synthetic corks. IMHO, they are FAR inferior to natural corks. Here is why

1) Too much micro-oxidation: meaning that they allow too much oxygen to penetrate into the bottle. I believe that there are two grades of synthetic corks. One is meant to last 3 year and one is meant to last 6 years. I do not believe that there is a synthetic cork that is meant to age wine for, say, 10 years or more.

2) Too expensive: Unless the price of them has come down over the years, I believe that there are many natural cork options that are far cheaper than synthetic cork. 

3) Insertion and Extraction Too Difficult: This could explain why you were having so much trouble corking. Synthetic corks have far less "give" than natural cork. This makes corking difficult as well as opening the bottle afterwards.


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## Fedoradude (Jun 17, 2016)

Thanks for those tips. I'll more precisely aim for that "finger's width" distance next batch. The local brew/vinter shop told me today to hold the corker for a 5-count at the bottom of the stroke (regardless of cork type) to force the air out without moving the cork. 

Fortunately, the kit wine I made wouldn't begin to last 10 years no matter what cork I used. 

But thanks again for those tips. I've saved them to be used next batch (probably late summer).


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## jgmann67 (Jun 18, 2016)

Do you have a floor corker? If not, and you intend on staying with this hobby, it's a worthwhile investment. 

I'm with John, an inch and a half between the wine and the bottom of the cork is about as far as I go. 

The AIO makes it easy to get an identical fill for every bottle. Also, a good investment if this is something you plan to continue doing.


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## Fedoradude (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm learning a lot as I go. (This being only my 2nd batch.) Both times I had a lot of grief keeping the siphon going the last 1/4 of the carboy. So, Friday I bought me a hand-drawn siphon pump for my next batch (whenever that is).

I did traditional corks on my first batch. But, looking back, we think we oversoaked them which created some problems. I don't know what an AIO is, but I do have a bottling wand.


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## jgmann67 (Jun 19, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> I'm learning a lot as I go. (This being only my 2nd batch.) Both times I had a lot of grief keeping the siphon going the last 1/4 of the carboy. So, Friday I bought me a hand-drawn siphon pump for my next batch (whenever that is).
> 
> I did traditional corks on my first batch. But, looking back, we think we oversoaked them which created some problems. I don't know what an AIO is, but I do have a bottling wand.




Okay - a couple things:

* Don't soak corks. Ever. You can corkador them if you're concerned about sanitation. Think big pot with a good bit of KMeta at the bottom. Drop in a strainer (it should be above the water level at the bottom) and place your 30 or so corks in the strainer. Cover the pot and wait an hour or more. Done. Now you're ready to bottle. 

* Search All-In-One Vacuum Pump. Steve has a website with videos (http://www.allinonewinepump.com). It's pretty brilliant...


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## Fedoradude (Jun 19, 2016)

jgmann67 said:


> * Don't soak corks. Ever.



I probably shouldn't have said "soak." The local vintner shop told us to boil them for 15 minutes in hot water.

I'll check out that pump.


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## cmason1957 (Jun 19, 2016)

Fedoradude said:


> I probably shouldn't have said "soak." The local vintner shop told us to boil them for 15 minutes in hot water.
> 
> I'll check out that pump.



Certainly don't boil them.


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## JohnT (Jun 20, 2016)

+1 on the others.. 

Boiling corks does not really help in sanitization and only weakens the corks structural integrity. 

What I do is to just given them a quick rinse with k-meta and in they go.


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## Fedoradude (Jun 20, 2016)

Hell, I'm into that! That's a whole lot less hassle than boiling for 15 minutes.

Y'all convinced me. I'll try conventional corks again next time.


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