# H2s



## derekjames100 (Oct 3, 2015)

Pitched BM4x4 on Thursday. Cap formed Friday added 1g/gallon fermaid k due to company recommendations. This morning, H2S smell, temp 92 and Brix down from 23 to 8

What did I do wrong and how do I fix this? I added another 1g/gallon fermaid k and might get some ice bags.

As much info as you can provide the better!

Thanks!


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## sour_grapes (Oct 3, 2015)

derekjames100 said:


> As much info as you can provide the better!




Ummmm, ditto. You need to tell us a lot more than you have. We don't even know if this is grapes or another fruit!!


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 3, 2015)

If from grapes, usually half dose at the start of fermentation (once a cap forms) and half at approx 1/3 of sugar depletion.


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## derekjames100 (Oct 3, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> Ummmm, ditto. You need to tell us a lot more than you have. We don't even know if this is grapes or another fruit!!




This is the "winemaking from grapes" section.

72% Sangiovese 28% Barbera.

I added the second serving of fermaid k and have been punching down all morning. Not smelling as much H2s now as a yeasty sharp smell of aggressive fermentation. I took room temp down to 50 and put a few bags of ice around the fermenters to try to get it from 92 to 75 degrees. Brix went from 23 to 8 in 24 hours.


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## ceeaton (Oct 3, 2015)

derekjames100 said:


> Pitched BM4x4 on Thursday. Cap formed Friday added 1g/gallon fermaid k due to company recommendations. This morning, H2S smell, *temp 92* and Brix down from 23 to 8
> 
> What did I do wrong and how do I fix this? I added another 1g/gallon fermaid k and might get some ice bags.
> 
> ...



92*F is way out of spec for this yeast. Max listed on Lallemand's site is 28*C which converts to 82.4*F. Your yeast is probably a little stressed out, but obviously doing a good job munching on the available sugars. I'd also use Fermaid O vs. K as you won't see such a sharp rise in must temperature from using it, especially if you are going to exceed the limits on the tech sheet for the yeast, IMHO.


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## derekjames100 (Oct 3, 2015)

I was only going to add 0.5g/gallon of fermaid k for the first dose as I was told but the person at lallemand said to use 1 g/gallon now and another at 1/3 drop. She said no downside to adding too much at start. I thought it would minimize the chance of stress, but do you think it made the yeast "too happy"????


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## ibglowin (Oct 3, 2015)

Sure seems like it did! In comparison I only added half at cap formation (Fermaid-K) on my BM4x4 and the other half 2 days later and my must temp only got up to around 82.


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## Rocky (Oct 3, 2015)

derekjames100 said:


> I was only going to add 0.5g/gallon of fermaid k for the first dose as I was told but the person at lallemand said to use 1 g/gallon now and another at 1/3 drop. She said no downside to adding too much at start. I thought it would minimize the chance of stress, but do you think it made the yeast "too happy"????


 
It may have and I think you will be fine. As was pointed out above the very active fermentation (an exothermic process) likely contributed to the unusual rise in temperature which stressed the yeast and lead to the H2S odor. Cooling it into the high 70's, if possible, should help. Good luck. Sounds like a very interesting blend you have there.


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## derekjames100 (Oct 3, 2015)

Lol!! I'm hopeful I'll at least get some good color from this! I may add a little reduless after I press then rack off gross less a few days later. Sound like w good plan to be safe? Any downside?


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## ceeaton (Oct 3, 2015)

derekjames100 said:


> Lol!! I'm hopeful I'll at least get some good color from this! I may add a little reduless after I press then rack off gross less a few days later. Sound like w good plan to be safe? Any downside?



I would think you'd want to wait until after you press and even after you do an MLF (if you are going to, might want to consider if acids are high) and taste it before considering using reduless.

Looks from your other post like you used Lallzyme EX, so I imagine your skins will look like little gray toupees by the time you press. The Opti-red should help preserve the color for quite some time if you can believe the literature on it. Don't have a wine old enough to say from first hand experience.

At least an extremely active ferment is better than a stuck one!


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## derekjames100 (Oct 3, 2015)

Thanks all!

Is it not true that h2s usually forms during a stuck fermentation with longer lag phases when yeast are dying off and stressed?

My yeast are rocking and roll and couldn't be happier? So what w h2s?

Seems the h2s is mild. I'm not smelling much fruit now but seems like a very yeasty sharp smell? Burns my nose if I get close...sound familiar to anyone?


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## cmason1957 (Oct 3, 2015)

H2S can be formed at anytime that yeast get stressed. Getting hot is very stressful. As to the smell, I don't think I would worry very much about it, your must isn't even hardly wine, yet. Hard to tell what it will end up as, yet.


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## derekjames100 (Oct 3, 2015)

Just annoying this all happened in 12 hours. Cap formed last night, I added nutrients at 8pm. This morning I checked it the Brix basically dropped from 23 to 8 overnight. I never could have predicted that. Hopefully the yeast can use some of the extra nitrogen I have them tiday even though alcohol content probably above 10.


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## ceeaton (Oct 3, 2015)

What fun would it be if it was predictable? We enter this hobby lacking some information that can only be obtained by experience. Next time it goes like this you'll know what to expect and how to react. Looks like your experience will end up with a finished product that you can enjoy, I don't think we can hope for much more!


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## sdelli (Oct 3, 2015)

This is my 4th year I will be using some BM4X4 yeast.... My crush is set for next Saturday. Read up on this months Wine Makers Magazine if you can get a copy in your hands.... It also dwells on the point of fermentation temperature is JUST as important as everything else you do during that process! Improper control of temperature and it is like neglecting nutrients all together.... It is a total process not just a chapter! Yes.... Your temp was way too high.....


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## derekjames100 (Oct 4, 2015)

sdelli said:


> This is my 4th year I will be using some BM4X4 yeast.... My crush is set for next Saturday. Read up on this months Wine Makers Magazine if you can get a copy in your hands.... It also dwells on the point of fermentation temperature is JUST as important as everything else you do during that process! Improper control of temperature and it is like neglecting nutrients all together.... It is a total process not just a chapter! Yes.... Your temp was way too high.....




What would you have done to properly control the temp? I pitched the nutrient and went to bed. When I woke up it was 92. Never would have predicted it.


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## ibglowin (Oct 4, 2015)

I have never seen a must go from yeast pitch to blazing inferno overnight. 

What was your must temp when the yeast was pitched?

Was there ANY yeast activity already going on when you pitched the yeast?

How much must do you have and how much yeast did you add to the must?


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## derekjames100 (Oct 4, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> I have never seen a must go from yeast pitch to blazing inferno overnight.
> 
> What was your must temp when the yeast was pitched?
> 
> ...




I pitched the yeast Thursday. Friday evening the cap was forming, so I pitched the nutrient and went to bed. The inferno ensued overnight. I didn't check the temp when I pitched the nutrient but even if it was in the 70'-80s I'm not sure I would have changed anything. It probably would have made me more likely to feed them still but I'm not sure I would have iced it.


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## ibglowin (Oct 4, 2015)

Usually you have a cap forming after 24 hours so that is completely normal so that leaves:

A) Too much yeast for Must volume causing a superfast buildup of fermentation
B) Too much Nutrients added somehow 
C) Combination of both


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## derekjames100 (Oct 4, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Usually you have a cap forming after 24 hours so that is completely normal so that leaves:
> 
> A) Too much yeast for Must volume causing a superfast buildup of fermentation
> B) Too much Nutrients added somehow
> C) Combination of both





Thanks. I m sure it is answer C but I followed exactly what Scott labs suggested to me on the phone. I'm not sure I would have used less yeast to risk a stuck fermentation or less nutrient(as bm4x4 is a high nutrient requiring) in retrospect. 

It's at 80 now and not foaming as much and smells much better so we will see how it goes.

Thanks so much


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## derekjames100 (Oct 4, 2015)

Brix hit zero after 72 hours. Did I set a world record? Smell seems to be gone(for now), I punched the cap probably 30 times in 36 hours


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## ceeaton (Oct 4, 2015)

The Forza kit I made over the summer went from 1.105 to 1.000 in 84 hours, and mine never exceeded 80*F, using RC212. So I imagine it may have been quicker at a higher temperature. So I don't know if that is normal or not, but if I saw that quick of a ferment after only making a few reds I'm thinking it is pretty normal.


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## Julie (Oct 4, 2015)

Did you have a brew belt on this? That is a pretty high temp for that short of a time. Also, calm down I know this isn't your first batch you have made, you need to trust in your own knowledge. H2S is not something I would worry about during fermentation. There is do much odors that come out of a fermentation the last thing you should be doing is jumping to a conclusion before fermentation is complete. 

Again James, this is not your first fermentation, you have been a member here for awhile and you do have a good knowledge of winemaking, you need to stop second guessing youself! You will do fine.


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## ibglowin (Oct 4, 2015)

Yes and this was a Kit which already had plenty of yeast nutrients (pre) added and then you added another full 100% dose. Notice anything similar? 



ceeaton said:


> The Forza kit I made over the summer went from 1.105 to 1.000 in 84 hours, and mine never exceeded 80*F, using RC212. So I imagine it may have been quicker at a higher temperature. So I don't know if that is normal or not, but if I saw that quick of a ferment after only making a few reds I'm thinking it is pretty normal.


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## ceeaton (Oct 4, 2015)

True. Wonder what is left over from my additions now that the ferment is done. That's probably what I should be worried about.


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## sdelli (Oct 5, 2015)

Really do not understand how you got to that point without some type of warming device helping.... Every year I use BM4X4 in at lear 2 or three of my 6 bins in fermentation.... Everyone of them responds the same every time... I pitch it at about 65 degrees must temp.... I add the first dose of fermaid-k 24 hours later.... Must temp about 72 degrees.... I keep the lid only half on the top of bin and the temp never goes over 78 degrees during all three nutrient additions.... This year I plan on trying to get the temp to 80 for better extraction.... Like everyone says you probably added heavy on the yeast and nutrients or heat... Only question now I would have if it was mine is what does the quality of wine like when made in 72 hours......


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## derekjames100 (Oct 5, 2015)

sdelli said:


> Really do not understand how you got to that point without some type of warming device helping.... Every year I use BM4X4 in at lear 2 or three of my 6 bins in fermentation.... Everyone of them responds the same every time... I pitch it at about 65 degrees must temp.... I add the first dose of fermaid-k 24 hours later.... Must temp about 72 degrees.... I keep the lid only half on the top of bin and the temp never goes over 78 degrees during all three nutrient additions.... This year I plan on trying to get the temp to 80 for better extraction.... Like everyone says you probably added heavy on the yeast and nutrients or heat... Only question now I would have if it was mine is what does the quality of wine like when made in 72 hours......




It's too bad. I have the same concerns. I used opti red and lallizyme ex so hopefully I got enough color extraction in the four days of fermentation and two days of cold soak prior. What do you think?


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## stickman (Oct 6, 2015)

I typically run 450 lb. batches in a single tank, and at that size, it is not uncommon to have temperature control issues without some planning. The larger the must volume the greater the potential for a temperature spike. I usually see the spike on the third day after pitching the yeast, and I usually pitch at 55 or 60F. I'm not sure what temperature the grapes were when you crushed, but I suspect you didn't get 2 days of cold soak, the natural yeast population was probably expanding during this time and it took off as expected on the third day. With a batch of that size and no temperature control, you probably need a 15F cushion before going to bed, so the batch should be no higher than 70F if you want 85F or less in the morning, and even that is risky as much depends on the temperature of the room. I ferment in the uncontrolled garage, and I've had several batches over the years run into the 90's when we had some unusually warm fall weather where the garage temp was in the upper 70's. For this reason, I now have temperature control on a jacketed stainless kettle, and I have to be sure it is on and functioning before the peak hits on the third day. Batch size matters; alongside the tank I can have several smaller, maybe 15gal batches, fermenting in Brutes uncontrolled and have no temperature issues.

As far as extraction is concerned, I would say you should be fine based on the high temperature and the use of enzymes. Wine is funny, who knows, this could turn out to be the best batch you've ever made.


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