# Raisins or Welch's Grape Juice



## mrzazz (Oct 30, 2010)

I have always added raisins to my wines for body. I have read that you can just use Welch's grape juice instead. Cleaner and easier to use. Jack Keller even said he doesn't use raisins anymore. So what do you think? Will juice give the same body as raisins?


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## PPBart (Oct 30, 2010)

mrzazz said:


> I have always added raisins to my wines for body. I have read that you can just use Welch's grape juice instead. Cleaner and easier to use. Jack Keller even said he doesn't use raisins anymore. So what do you think? Will juice give the same body as raisins?



Hmm... I just added raisins to a Welch's juice must. Should have plenty of body!


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## mrzazz (Oct 30, 2010)

When I make Welch's white niagara from frozen I add raisins also. hmmmm


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## mrzazz (Oct 31, 2010)

Does anyone else use Welch's grape instead of raisins?


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## BobF (Oct 31, 2010)

I don't bother with raisins. I read some where A Long Time Ago, that I can't find right now, that raisins were popular before grape concentrate was so readily available, and that grape concentrate is a better choice. Grape concentrate is what I use, most often Welch's. I use concord for reds and niagra for lighter musts.

Maybe it was in Berry's book ...


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## PPBart (Oct 31, 2010)

BobF said:


> I don't bother with raisins. I read some where A Long Time Ago, that I can't find right now, that raisins were popular before grape concentrate was so readily available, and that grape concentrate is a better choice. Grape concentrate is what I use, most often Welch's. I use concord for reds and niagra for lighter musts. Maybe it was in Berry's book ...



First Steps in Winemaking, C.J.J. Berry, pg 22: 

"Grape concentrate is perhaps even better used as an additive in fruit wine musts, to improve their vinosity. (This was the purpose of including 1/2-lb or 1-lb raisins -- dried grapes -- in old-time recipes)..."


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## BobF (Oct 31, 2010)

PPBart said:


> First Steps in Winemaking, C.J.J. Berry, pg 22:
> 
> "Grape concentrate is perhaps even better used as an additive in fruit wine musts, to improve their vinosity. (This was the purpose of including 1/2-lb or 1-lb raisins -- dried grapes -- in old-time recipes)..."


 

Yep, that's it!!


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## Lurker (Oct 31, 2010)

I have been adding raisins in the primary. When do you add the Grape concentrate and how much per gal. or per 5 or 6 gals? Any specific brand better than others? What does Tom think?


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## BobF (Oct 31, 2010)

Lurker said:


> I have been adding raisins in the primary. When do you add the Grape concentrate and how much per gal. or per 5 or 6 gals? Any specific brand better than others? What does Tom think?


 
I add it during primary. Mostly Welch's. As an example, I used 1 can per gallon for jalapeno.


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## mrzazz (Oct 31, 2010)

From what I'm reading I see you add it to the primary and its one can per gallon. Just Welch's grape rather than raisins sure would be easier and cheaper. I do see a difference in the wine when adding raisins. That's why I would like to know if its the same. hmmmm thinks to ponder on


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## PPBart (Nov 1, 2010)

Lurker said:


> I have been adding raisins in the primary. When do you add the Grape concentrate and how much per gal. or per 5 or 6 gals? Any specific brand better than others? What does Tom think?



Sorry, I should have quoted a bit more from Berry:

"Grape concentrate is perhaps even better used as an additive in fruit wine musts, to improve their vinosity. (This was the purpose of including 1/2-lb or 1-lb raisins -- dried grapes -- in old-time recipes). *Try substituting ¼-pint (140 ml) grape concentrate for ½-lb raisins, and include this much concentrate in every gallon of your wine.”*

I assume the concentrate would be added at the same point in the process at which you would otherwise add raisins.

I'm curious also about just which type of "concentrate" Berry is referring to -- Welch's, or the concentrates specifically produced for winemaking (and much more expensive!). 

I've frequently added raisins to must, but based on this info I'm more likely to use concentrate from now on.


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## BobF (Nov 1, 2010)

PPBart said:


> Sorry, I should have quoted a bit more from Berry:
> 
> "Grape concentrate is perhaps even better used as an additive in fruit wine musts, to improve their vinosity. (This was the purpose of including 1/2-lb or 1-lb raisins -- dried grapes -- in old-time recipes). *Try substituting ¼-pint (140 ml) grape concentrate for ½-lb raisins, and include this much concentrate in every gallon of your wine.”*
> 
> ...


 
Based on his other mentions of grape concentrate availability, my guess is he's using wine grape concentrate.

midwest has winexpert red concentrate for $15.95/liter. At 150-300ml per gallon, I doubt you'd notice the diff between this and Welch's.


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## PPBart (Nov 1, 2010)

BobF said:


> Based on his other mentions of grape concentrate availability, my guess is he's using wine grape concentrate.
> 
> midwest has winexpert red concentrate for $15.95/liter. At 150-300ml per gallon, I doubt you'd notice the diff between this and Welch's.



IF (and it may be a big "if") Winexpert and Welch's concentrates are considered to be equivalent in their contribution to the must, I think I would notice. Welch's comes in a 340-ml package for about $1.80 in my local grocery store, so a liter would cost about $5.40 -- about 1/3 of the Winexpert cost.


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## mrzazz (Nov 3, 2010)

I'm starting a blackberry in a few days. I think I will split it and use raisins in one and welchs in the other. Experiment time


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## BobF (Nov 3, 2010)

mrzazz said:


> I'm starting a blackberry in a few days. I think I will split it and use raisins in one and welchs in the other. Experiment time


 
Excellent! Please be sure to follow up. I've never bothered trying raisins, so I will find this interesting.


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## mrzazz (Nov 3, 2010)

I've always put raisins in my wines. I left them out once and could tell the wine had less body.


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## Lurker (Nov 3, 2010)

As a group are we talking about wine from grapes or other fruits or both? I would like to hear from you who have been using it for red or white grape juices. I have used raisins or glycerine for body in buckets of grape juice with good results, but I am always ready to try something diff. if others recommend it.


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## BobF (Nov 3, 2010)

Lurker said:


> As a group are we talking about wine from grapes or other fruits or both? I would like to hear from you who have been using it for red or white grape juices. I have used raisins or glycerine for body in buckets of grape juice with good results, but I am always ready to try something diff. if others recommend it.


Me? I use the Welch's in non-grape wines that need a bit of body. There haven't been many.


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## enyawgerg (Oct 24, 2012)

I am planning to make a batch of scuppernong wine. I was considering adding welch's grape concentrate to enhance the flavor. Would I need to alter the amounts of additives such as tannin, yeast nutrient, acid blend, etc. that the recipe calls for?


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