# Converting white wine to champagne



## murphyaii (Oct 28, 2015)

I've finalised the white wine from a kit down to 0.992 from 1.086

I've heard i shouldn't add stabiliser to the wine if i am going to further make it sparkly.
would stabiliser be the second pack of the 4 that comes with the wine?


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## barbiek (Oct 28, 2015)

What kit are we talking about? What is printed on the packages? Did you clear? Add the clearing agent and make sure the carboy is topped
Thanks
Barbie


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## murphyaii (Oct 29, 2015)

finalising means fermenting.
magnum ultimate white wine kit.
answers?


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## grapeman (Oct 29, 2015)

According to the instructions for those kits, packet number two is the stabilizer (potassium sorbate) so if you added it you will have trouble getting carbonation going.
http://www.hambletonbard.com/assets/docs/1-wine-kits/11395-magnum-ultimate-instruction.pdf


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## JohnT (Oct 29, 2015)

Why not try forced carbonation by using a 5 gal keg? The link below is a place that has them on sale.

http://www.homebrewsupply.com/

What you do is to finish your wine and get it clear and stable as if you were making still wine. You then place your wine into a 5 gal keg and pump it up to 20 or 30 psi of C02. Then place the keg in the fridge for 2 or 3 weeks so that the CO2 goes into solution. Done.. 

I like this method because it takes leftover yeast (from the carbonation step) and disgorging out of the equation. Your champagne will be clear from the first glass right down to the last!!!! 

One more benefit is the coolness factor.. Champagne on tap.. How cool is that??

I used to do methode champenoise when making champagne. Not anymore!!


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## salcoco (Oct 29, 2015)

I had good luck in pressurizing at about 40psi, shake the corny keg for 15 minutes, than wait 15 minutes, repeat for about 5 times, have a glass of wine while doing this. keep pressure on keg overnight. reduce pressure and use a counter pressure filler to fill champagne bottles. keep corny keg cold at all times. I used a laundry bucket full of cold water with frozen bottles to keep temp down. . Using the OUT for insertion of gas is good idea, the out tube is to bottom of keg, and this allows gas to push up into the liquid.


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## murphyaii (Oct 29, 2015)

if i had a corny keg i would think about it.
but only have the traditional methods still of wine making
i.e. bucket, champagne yeast, sugar syrup and bottles


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## murphyaii (Oct 29, 2015)

I'll drop packet 2 and continue untill the wine has finished and then i'll proceed adding the champagne yeast and syrup to each bottle and lie the bottles after on their sides and then de-gorge i hope without the bottles exploding.
how do you know how much yeast to put in each bottle though?


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2015)

Go to Bed Bath and Beyond and buy a Soda Stream. I use one when doing bench trials to see how my carbonated wines will turn out.


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## ceeaton (Oct 29, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Why not try forced carbonation by using a 5 gal keg? The link below is a place that has them on sale.
> 
> http://www.homebrewsupply.com/
> 
> ...



Ut oh, never thought of that...I've got 4 cornelius kegs, only two filled. Wonder what cheaper white kit I can pick up and have done by New Years Eve? Don't think I want to sacrifice my Eclipse Chardonnay kit or my Chardonel batch. Any suggestions? I tend to stick with WE kits since that is what my LHBS and Labelpeelers have the most of.

FYI, better to have the wine pre-cooled in the keg before carbonating, goes faster. I've done a batch of beer the night before a get together and no one knew I had just kegged it.

Edit: Found this article to be interesting, will help with my kit choice tomorrow.

https://winemakermag.com/480-making-sparkling-wine-from-kits-wine-kits


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## barbiek (Oct 29, 2015)

I know what it is not to be able to afford the extra equipment. If your wanting to be able to create sparkling wine without the added cost. So how many gal are you gonna do sparkling? When I convert a kit to champagne I usually split it doing a whole 5 or 6 is a pia I usually do 2 gal at a time. So #1 is the initial sg of 1.075 or less is recommended if more then the alcohol might be to high to permit the bottle ferm. 2 It is fermented to dry, let wine clear make sure it is topped. After t is completely clear Then you move to the 2nd ferm this is done gradually! Take the full amount of wine and add 70 grams of sugar per gal of wine. Then you use about 1/2 cup of wine and add champagne yeast to hydrate and a pinch of sugar wait about 6 hrs and double the volume of wine you added previously and keep doing this until all wine is used keep doubling it up it will not be a very vigorous ferment when all wine is fermenting siphon into clean sterilized champagne bottles stoppers and wire down lay bottles on side in a room temp setting to start the ferm for a week then moved to a cooler place store them upside down I usually use the box the bottles came in and every couple days give them a twist for at least a month or 2 then comes the tricky part...freezing the the lower part of the bottle neck then disgorging the ice pellit with the yeast then hurrying to put a clean stopper and wire on make sure you use only champagne bottles, stoppers wired down. Also make sure to leave 2" from closure to wine when filling bottles and if you want sweeter champagne use the nonfermentable sugar added at the beginning of the 2nd ferm hope this is the info you were looking for


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## barbiek (Oct 29, 2015)

Oops this double posted


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## barbiek (Oct 29, 2015)

ceeaton try the Pinot Gris as champagne yummy! But I left it to clear 6 months nothing like sparkling champagne!


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## JohnT (Oct 30, 2015)

If you do plan to carbonate in the bottle (methode champenoise), then please take my advise.. 

Wear eye protection and thick gloves when these bottles are sealed. It is very hard to judge the integrity of the bottles you are using and it does happen that they will explode when being handled. Champagne can have an amazing amount of pressure! Although a rare occurence, I have had them explode on me in the past.

Be safe!


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## murphyaii (Oct 30, 2015)

the initial gravity was 1.086
i'd say another week to go before it finishes as it's at 1 currently
another question.

How do you freeze the neck of the champagne bottles without freezing the whole bottle?


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## JohnT (Oct 30, 2015)

murphyaii said:


> the initial gravity was 1.086
> i'd say another week to go before it finishes as it's at 1 currently
> another question.
> 
> How do you freeze the neck of the champagne bottles without freezing the whole bottle?


 

The neck is much more narrow that the rest of the bottle and freezes first. I place it (inverted) into a chest freezer for about 1 or 1.5 hours, checking it every 30 minutes or so, and disgorge once the neck freezes.


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## ceeaton (Oct 30, 2015)

barbiek said:


> ceeaton try the Pinot Gris as champagne yummy! But I left it to clear 6 months nothing like sparkling champagne!



I have a Pinot Grigio from this spring, but may lose an arm when I go to pour a few bottles into my smaller (3 gallon) keg. I don't think my wife would part with too many bottles, especially for an "experiment". Thinking of a Sauvingon Blanc kit, bottle 1/2 and carbonate 1/2. Next spring I can get an extra Pinot Grigio bucket and have it ready for New Years 2017. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## murphyaii (Oct 30, 2015)

i have 5 champagne bottles.
so i'll bottle them and wait and see.
should get at least 20 normal bottles of wine as well.


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## murphyaii (Oct 30, 2015)

barbiek said:


> I know what it is not to be able to afford the extra equipment. If your wanting to be able to create sparkling wine without the added cost. So how many gal are you gonna do sparkling? When I convert a kit to champagne I usually split it doing a whole 5 or 6 is a pia I usually do 2 gal at a time. So #1 is the initial sg of 1.075 or less is recommended if more then the alcohol might be to high to permit the bottle ferm. 2 It is fermented to dry, let wine clear make sure it is topped. After t is completely clear Then you move to the 2nd ferm this is done gradually! Take the full amount of wine and add 70 grams of sugar per gal of wine. Then you use about 1/2 cup of wine and add champagne yeast to hydrate and a pinch of sugar wait about 6 hrs and double the volume of wine you added previously and keep doing this until all wine is used keep doubling it up it will not be a very vigorous ferment when all wine is fermenting siphon into clean sterilized champagne bottles stoppers and wire down lay bottles on side in a room temp setting to start the ferm for a week then moved to a cooler place store them upside down I usually use the box the bottles came in and every couple days give them a twist for at least a month or 2 then comes the tricky part...freezing the the lower part of the bottle neck then disgorging the ice pellit with the yeast then hurrying to put a clean stopper and wire on make sure you use only champagne bottles, stoppers wired down. Also make sure to leave 2" from closure to wine when filling bottles and if you want sweeter champagne use the nonfermentable sugar added at the beginning of the 2nd ferm hope this is the info you were looking for



thanks for the detailed breakdown by the way.

only 5 bottles not going to take the risk of the whole kit the first time!

i do have a 1 gallon carboy i can use for the mixing as well


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## barbiek (Oct 30, 2015)

ceeaton Pinot Grigio even better! I refrained from using any of my Pinot Grigio. I understand your wife's point! Lol Thanks John for making the point of safety glasses and gloves I failed to mention that aspect!


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## ceeaton (Oct 30, 2015)

Wanted a wine that I didn't have in my inventory yet, so went with a WE WV Sauvingon Blanc. Talked with Brad at the LHBS and he's done it before (he does some crazy stuff, brewers....). Plan on QA23 yeast and will start tomorrow morning (boiling & cooling some tap water as I type this). I'll keg three gallons and force carbonate, the other three I'll treat the normal way. If we don't like the results I'll degass and bottle the kegged wine and try again in the spring (w/Pinot Grigio). Either way it's only an $80 experiment and I've got so much money I can't give it away....sorry, daydreaming a bit.


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## barbiek (Oct 30, 2015)

JohnT said:


> The neck is much more narrow that the rest of the bottle and freezes first. I place it (inverted) into a chest freezer for about 1 or 1.5 hours, checking it every 30 minutes or so, and disgorge once the neck freezes.



Or I just took advantage of a big pile of snow and inverted them in that no fuss no mess lol I get creative sometimes


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## heatherd (Oct 31, 2015)

Runningwolf said:


> Go to Bed Bath and Beyond and buy a Soda Stream. I use one when doing bench trials to see how my carbonated wines will turn out.



There is a delightful youtube video of two guys making "champagne" with a soda stream and cheap white wine:
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=0E0C5F4E776915A74DBD0E0C5F4E776915A74DBD


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## murphyaii (Nov 6, 2015)

*i've another question about removing the co2*

after fermentation and not adding stabilizer but adding the fining agents,

should the co2 be whipped out before adding the fining agents?


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## cmason1957 (Nov 6, 2015)

murphyaii said:


> after fermentation and not adding stabilizer but adding the fining agents,
> 
> should the co2 be whipped out before adding the fining agents?



If you have CO2 in your wine, it probably won't clear, even with the fining agents. So yes, get the CO2 out first. I am a bigger fan of letting it age out or removing it by racking it with a vacuum pump than trying to whip it out. 

Also, I always add the stabilizing chemicals before the fining agents, if you mean the potassium metabisulphite and the potassium sorbate. I also add any f-pacs, before fining. But, if you are doing a wine kit, follow their directions, not what I do.


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## barbiek (Nov 21, 2015)

cmason1957 said:


> If you have CO2 in your wine, it probably won't clear, even with the fining agents. So yes, get the CO2 out first. I am a bigger fan of letting it age out or removing it by racking it with a vacuum pump than trying to whip it out.
> 
> Also, I always add the stabilizing chemicals before the fining agents, if you mean the potassium metabisulphite and the potassium sorbate. I also add any f-pacs, before fining. But, if you are doing a wine kit, follow their directions, not what I do.



You do know he's converting this to champagne? Although it's true that gassy wine does not clear I have not had a problem with it clearing why do you think that is? Is it due to the fact that it is de gorged? Now ya got me thinking wt


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## yanks4carolyn (Nov 22, 2015)

The answer isn't clear to me. Do you use sorbate if making the sparkling wine? If so, when?


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## murphyaii (Nov 23, 2015)

*wine update*

Well i bottled the wine and added the syrup and ec-118 yeast to the bottles.
however, i just added the yeast raw to the bottle in the plastic stopper.
is that ok?

I'm looking in the bottle after a few days and it is just sitting there in the bottle the yeast.


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## JohnT (Nov 23, 2015)

yanks4carolyn said:


> The answer isn't clear to me. Do you use sorbate if making the sparkling wine? If so, when?


 
It all depends on the method of carbonation that you are using. 

If you are going to carbonate using yeast (natural carbonation), then you definitely DO NOT want to use sorbate.

If you are going to force carbonate, then use of sorbate is ok


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## cmason1957 (Nov 23, 2015)

barbiek said:


> You do know he's converting this to champagne? Although it's true that gassy wine does not clear I have not had a problem with it clearing why do you think that is? Is it due to the fact that it is de gorged? Now ya got me thinking wt



It has been a while since I replied to this, but the key thing I saw was the Original Poster planned to Force Carbonation, as in not using the leftover yeast to produce the CO2 and bubbles. So, clearing and adding chemicals makes sense, I think. If someone were planning to add some type of yeast and carbonate via increased fermentation, then I don't think you would want to add the chemicals.

And it is possible I am just flat wrong. I'll accept that.


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## JohnT (Nov 23, 2015)

cmason1957 said:


> It has been a while since I replied to this, but the key thing I saw was the Original Poster planned to Force Carbonation, as in not using the leftover yeast to produce the CO2 and bubbles. So, clearing and adding chemicals makes sense, I think. If someone were planning to add some type of yeast and carbonate via increased fermentation, then I don't think you would want to add the chemicals.
> 
> And it is possible I am just flat wrong. I'll accept that.


 
You are right cmason. This is more or less what I was trying to say in my last post.


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## murphyaii (Dec 1, 2015)

sorry to bring this post back to light but
I've noticed the ec-118 yeast i added to the champagne hasn't changed at all and is still just lying in the bottle.

any ideas on how to get it activated?


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## JohnT (Dec 1, 2015)

Try warming it up to around 75 degrees.


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## Arne (Dec 2, 2015)

murphyaii said:


> sorry to bring this post back to light but
> I've noticed the ec-118 yeast i added to the champagne hasn't changed at all and is still just lying in the bottle.
> 
> any ideas on how to get it activated?



Did you add a small amount of sugar as well as the yeast so the yeast had something to feed on? Or maybe it has already fermented and you are seeing the lees. Arne.


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## murphyaii (Dec 2, 2015)

i added some hot water with sugar and put that in each bottle.
then added the yeast to each cap when i put them in.
i think i'll have to empty each bottle back into a demijohn and heat it up and then add the yeast to start a new ferment


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## barbiek (Dec 2, 2015)

I have never done it this way I get the whole wine fermenting again then siphon to bottles did you add the sorbate? If you did chances are you wont get a referment and also if you have been trying to get this to ferment again for a month now with no sorbate I would just forget about making it into champagne, dump it back into the fermenter watch over it to see if fermentation restarts if it does restart you can siphon it back to champagne bottles but if you want to try warming the bottles up lay them on their sides in a warm area good luck!


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## JohnT (Dec 2, 2015)

I would first try just warming up while still in the bottle, the yeast might simply be dormant. Give it a couple of weeks in a warm room.


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## murphyaii (Dec 3, 2015)

I think the problem is heat related alright as the temp is only at 20c.
I'll leave them near the gas fire tonight and let the glass bottles heat up beside it.fingers crossed


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## ceeaton (Dec 21, 2015)

Just a quick update. I had kegged 3 gallons of my Sauvingon Blanc kit a few weeks ago. Finally got cold enough I could force carbonate it up to 30 psi (all the further my regulator goes). Rigged up a short tap and presto, had champagne on tap. 

Both my wife and I were surprised how good it tasted, especially since the kit was started 6 or 7 weeks ago. Planning on taking it along when we celebrate Christmas with my family (brothers/sisters/nephews/nieces/great aunts/grandma's etc - 21 in all). Amazing what a little CO2 will do to a cheap wine.

I will add that I took the tap off this morning, cleaned it out and took it back to the basement so it would take an effort on my part to retap the keg. It is very easy to overindulge in this beverage.


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## murphyaii (Jan 12, 2016)

*feedback reports on the champagne*

Gave 4 bottles away as presents.
People said it was nice and fizzy but a bit dull after like most.
people reported a bit of a hangover as well the next day.
thumbs up for that, as i had not de-gorged the champagne before giving them away.
thanks to all replies in helping me with my first champagne!!


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## yanks4carolyn (Jan 21, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Why not try forced carbonation by using a 5 gal keg? The link below is a place that has them on sale.
> 
> http://www.homebrewsupply.com/
> 
> ...




Champagne on tap. What an amazing thing. I'm having visions. Good ones. Congrats on having this idea. Lovely, just lovely. I bet you have lots of friends.


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## ceeaton (Mar 30, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> I will add that I took the tap off this morning, cleaned it out and took it back to the basement so it would take an effort on my part to retap the keg. It is very easy to overindulge in this beverage.



Amazing when you take off the tap how we forget about it. Had taken it back up to the garage to cool it down a bit for some sampling, now almost two months later I put the tap back on. 

I got an email from the ring leader of the group that occasionally meets to prepare for our HS reunions, the 40th being more than four years from now. Last time we met there were about eight of us and we consumed seven bottles of wine and some beer. So the light bulb clicked on, let's do some Sauvingon Blanc sparkling wine from the keg! Turns out my wife doesn't love the wine but does want me to make it for next Christmas using a Pinot Grigio kit. So I will be taking that and a bit of ice to sit the keg in for Sunday's event.

An update on the taste. I'll state again, it is amazing what a little CO2 can do to make a cheaper kit taste pretty darn good. It's only going on four months old but is much better than what I remember of it from our family reunion between Christmas and New Years.

Cheers!


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## Tnuscan (Mar 30, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Amazing when you take off the tap how we forget about it. Had taken it back up to the garage to cool it down a bit for some sampling, now almost two months later I put the tap back on.
> 
> I got an email from the ring leader of the group that occasionally meets to prepare for our HS reunions, the 40th being more than four years from now. Last time we met there were about eight of us and we consumed seven bottles of wine and some beer. So the light bulb clicked on, let's do some Sauvingon Blanc sparkling wine from the keg! Turns out my wife doesn't love the wine but does want me to make it for next Christmas using a Pinot Grigio kit. So I will be taking that and a bit of ice to sit the keg in for Sunday's event.
> 
> ...



Am I understanding you shot co2 into this, and it's been sitting four months in this state, and it has gotten better?


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## ceeaton (Mar 31, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> Am I understanding you shot co2 into this, and it's been sitting four months in this state, and it has gotten better?



Yes, I have a 3 gallon Cornelius keg (mainly used for beer making) that I added 1/2 of a World Vineyards Sauvingon Blanc kit to in December and force carbonated it (like I would my beer batches) just using the highest psi I could set my regulator at (around 30 psi). I hook the gas in line to the output line of he keg and slowly roll the keg back an forth to add as much CO2 as I can. Works much better if the wine (or beer) is cold. 

I served it at our family Christmas party in late December and never tried again until last night. So it was under CO2 pressure the whole time (I added CO2 as I dispensed it and the pressure dropped thus excluding O2 and keeping it from oxidizing). The taste was much improved!


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## ibglowin (Mar 31, 2016)

I am about ready to pick up a Soda Stream just for this purpose. I can open a bottle of white wine and transfer to the supplied soda stream bottle and hit it a couple of times with CO2 injections an viola', instant Champagne!


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## Radek (Apr 1, 2016)

It is simple. Champagne is carbonated.
How to convert wine in to the champagne.
Before bottling Add to each bottle 0.7 L - 5g of sugar ( to make a carbon).
Leave for two weeks.


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## Radek (Apr 1, 2016)

Do not forget to close the bottles


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## ceeaton (Apr 1, 2016)

Radek said:


> It is simple. Champagne is carbonated.
> How to convert wine in to the champagne.
> Before bottling Add to each bottle 0.7 L - 5g of sugar ( to make a carbon).
> Leave for two weeks.



Well, the route we are taking eliminates any sediment if the wine was properly aged. 

If you use added sugar to carbonate, yeast sediment will form when it is done feeding on the sugar you added and the yeast drops to the bottom for a well deserved sleep, much like a naturally bottle conditioned beer.


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## ceeaton (Apr 1, 2016)

Put the small keg on ice inside my mash cooler and after dinner resurrected the counter pressure bottle filler and went to work. One issue, it is supposed to have a gas line that splits, one part goes to the bottle to pressurize it, the other to the keg to keep the whole "system" in balance. Well at some point the split disappeared. I assume because it was a PIA, but also because when you bottle beer at 8 or 10 psi, there is really no need to keep the pressure up in the keg, it's already there and unless you are bottling the whole batch it won't lose all of that "stored" chemical pressure in the beer.

Not quite as easy when bottling at 30 psi. I had to pressurize the bottle, back that off so that the keg wine would flow in by gravity. It seemed to work okay, but the proof will be when I open the bottle on Sunday afternoon. Will be very curious how carbonated it still is...

PS. Wifey was studying (no coat necessary @Johnd) and was keeping an eye on the proceedings. Seems she was thinking I could carbonate a gallon or two of the Pinot Grigio kit I have aging.


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## Tnuscan (Apr 1, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> I am about ready to pick up a Soda Stream just for this purpose. I can open a bottle of white wine and transfer to the supplied soda stream bottle and hit it a couple of times with CO2 injections an viola', instant Champagne!



Think I'll give this a try also.


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## thruhike00 (Apr 17, 2016)

Anybody tried carbonating with sodastream and then putting in bottles? Want to take a few bottles to parties instead of carrying sodastream with me to make ghetto champagne on location. Which is better: pinot grigio or chardonnay for making sparkling wine?


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## Julie (Apr 17, 2016)

Pinot grigio, can't imagine chardonnay carbonated. And yes you should be able to do that. I don't have a soda stream but I have taken wine that I have kegged and put into a couple of bottles to take to parties.


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## sour_grapes (Apr 17, 2016)

Julie said:


> Pinot grigio, can't imagine chardonnay carbonated.



Chardonnay is one of the three grapes used to make Champagne. In particular, _Blanc de blanc_ is 100% Chard.


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## ibglowin (Apr 17, 2016)

Amazing Paul and I agree on something two days in a row! 

I just received my Sodastream this week and plan on doing the same thing at some point. There are plenty of youtube videos online showing people doing this without issues just be careful to not over carbonate and as you are supposed to only carb water make sure to wipe down/rinse the carbonation tube so it doesn't plug the tip with dried sticky stuff. 

One issue/problem I see with making instant Champagne is that the Sodastream bottle is a 1L bottle and the max liquid line is at 900ml. A bottle of wine is ~750ml and would just touch the end of the tip of the carbonator which would not be enough to carb the wine. So what do you do? Open another bottle and top off with 150ml or perhaps use some clean marbles to increase the volume to the line?

I ordered a couple more Sodastream bottles of Amazon already and am looking into purchasing an adapter so I could use a regular 20lb (Beer Keg) CO2 cylinder in order to save $$$ on CO2


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## barbiek (Apr 17, 2016)

My Pinot Gris kit had refermented in the bottle and makes a nice sparkling wine it's just now going through them before the corks start popping lol


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