# First crush tomorrow!!!!



## nayrea143 (May 16, 2014)

I will be doing my first crush Tom! 198 lbs of cab sav and merlot blend. I will be following the manual on more wine. And I am also going to be doing mlf as well. MW ph meter, hydrometer and chromo test all ready. Any advice?!? I figure I will update on this thread. Wish me luck!!!!!


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## sour_grapes (May 16, 2014)

Best of luck, nayrea! You get 'em!


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## Calamity Cellars (May 17, 2014)

Only advice is to have fun. Enjoy the experience. Expect that you'll make a couple of mistakes and learn from them. Welcome to the addiction!!!


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## seth8530 (May 17, 2014)

Sounds very exciting! Don't forget that you will need some kind of press to extract the juice from the skins. Not trying to bomb your thread but if you want to I also have a thread about my own first grape wine experience! Good Stuff, keep us updated and keep good notes so that we can learn!

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/fall-wine-plans-storm-brewing-39460/


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## nayrea143 (May 17, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Sounds very exciting! Don't forget that you will need some kind of press to extract the juice from the skins. Not trying to bomb your thread but if you want to I also have a thread about my own first grape wine experience! Good Stuff, keep us updated and keep good notes so that we can learn!
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/fall-wine-plans-storm-brewing-39460/




Yup!!! I have a huge basket press!!! I have the supplies. Hope I know what to do with them!!! Lol. 

Super excited!!! 


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## seth8530 (May 17, 2014)

Wow, looks like you are good to go!


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

Ok I will update my numbers later today but I have a question. We were planning on destemming by hand and using the electric crusher. Well that was bs and would take forever. Friends of ours who also make wine said they just leave the stems on. So my question is is that ok? Or should I go through the must now and try to pull out as many stems as I can. We have a brute filled 3/4 of the way. Added 1/4 meta yesterday. Waiting till tonight to pitch the yeast. 


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## GreginND (May 18, 2014)

Many wines have been made with stems and they generally turn out good. The only problem with stems is adding bitter tannins to your wine. Ideally they are removed to avoid this. But without a machine it is quite labor intensive to do it by hand. I have seen some people destem by hand by pushing the grapes through a screen or through the bottom of a milk crate to catch the stems. If you've already crushed them, maybe it's too late for that. If you want to pull out as much as you can by hand, it can help. But I don't think I'd worry too much about it at this point of you can't get them out. I might consider pressing a little bit earlier though to avoid too much stem contact in the fermenting wine.


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

GreginND said:


> Many wines have been made with stems and they generally turn out good. The only problem with stems is adding bitter tannins to your wine. Ideally they are removed to avoid this. But without a machine it is quite labor intensive to do it by hand. I have seen some people destem by hand by pushing the grapes through a screen or through the bottom of a milk crate to catch the stems. If you've already crushed them, maybe it's too late for that. If you want to pull out as much as you can by hand, it can help. But I don't think I'd worry too much about it at this point of you can't get them out. I might consider pressing a little bit earlier though to avoid too much stem contact in the fermenting wine.




Ok. Thank u


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

So it looks like my brix is 24. 13%


Hydrometer at 1.094. I think?? I will test the ph later today when hubby gets home. Am I reading the hydrometer right?!? 


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

Should I add some sugar?? Like two pounds? It was 198 lbs. 



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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

No sugar! That is plenty high enough..... I just started some Cab and Merlot yesterday... Mine was at 1.091 with some juice mixed in. Keep it warm and let it roll! I recommend a dose of fermaid-k as soon as you see fermenting starting up... I just did mine this morning about 24 hours into it. 


Sam


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

Lay the Brut lid on it loosely with a crack showing for some air... It will help keep a layer of gas from the ferment laying on top of the grapes.

Also, punch down the cap every morning and night. I use a big potato masher to use as a punch down tool.


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Lay the Brut lid on it loosely with a crack showing for some air... It will help keep a layer of gas from the ferment laying on top of the grapes.
> 
> Also, punch down the cap every morning and night. I use a big potato masher to use as a punch down tool.
> 
> ...




Ok no sugar. Lol. I will crack the lid and I haven't added the yeast yet. Guy I got the grapes from said add 1/4 meta and wait 24 hrs then add the yeast. Did I read the hydrometer right?!?!? Can u tell from the pictures?? 


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

I plan on adding fermaid about three days in to active fermentation. 


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> Ok no sugar. Lol. I will crack the lid and I haven't added the yeast yet. Guy I got the grapes from said add 1/4 meta and wait 24 hrs then add the yeast. Did I read the hydrometer right?!?!? Can u tell from the pictures??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




I use a gram scale.... You want to acquire about 50ppm of so2 at crush. It looks like you have about 20 gallons of must. That would equate to about 6 grams of kmeta... I would do about 5 grams to be safe. Depending if you crushed them or had them crushed. They might of added some. How much is that in teaspoons? I think if you google it there are conversion charts.... Looks like you are reading correctly on your hydrometer. I usually wait 12 hours before I pitch the yeast after adding kmeta... It takes at least that long to get the must temp up to at least 65 degrees before pitching. What is your must temp at now?


Sam


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

Sam


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## seth8530 (May 18, 2014)

To me it looks like you read it pretty close. I read 23.5 brix from the picture.


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

So I prob could have added a little more of the meta but it should be ok. I was nervous to add too much bc I want to do a mlf. I don't actually have a thermometer. It's in my garage. It's prob close to 70. I will put a thermometer out there and see what the garage is. 


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## seth8530 (May 18, 2014)

If the sulfites are a bit high after fermentation you can always test them prior to pitching MLB.


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> So I prob could have added a little more of the meta but it should be ok. I was nervous to add too much bc I want to do a mlf. I don't actually have a thermometer. It's in my garage. It's prob close to 70. I will put a thermometer out there and see what the garage is.
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Garage temp does not really count.... Must temp is what you need to know.... Garage temp could be at 70 degrees and the must temp will stay in the 50's for a couple few days! Don't pitch the yeast until the must warms up to at least the low to mid 60's....thermometers are cheap at any store!

What kind of yeast are you using?

Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

Can I use any kind of thermometer ?? And I am using d47. Five 5g packets. 



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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

I asked the guy there who knows everything what yeast he recommended. I am kinda surprised about the selection bc it says it's for white wine. I was going to use rc 212. 


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

That one looks like it will work... Better then nothing! What is the temp?



Sam


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> I asked the guy there who knows everything what yeast he recommended. I am kinda surprised about the selection bc it says it's for white wine. I was going to use rc 212.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




D-47???? Wow that is for whites. I used BM4X4 in my Cab and D-21 in my Merlot... Gona ferment separately then mix at the press... Take a look at the list below for better choices....

http://www.morebeer.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf



Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> D-47???? Wow that is for whites. I used BM4X4 in my Cab and D-21 in my Merlot... Gona ferment separately then mix at the press... Take a look at the list below for better choices....
> 
> http://www.morebeer.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf
> 
> ...




I know. I wish I noticed earlier!!!! I am not sure I should wait another day to get a different yeast. They have a school where I get my grapes. He knew everything about them and all the test results from the school. Do I have to add the yeast tonight??? We crushed them at 4 pm yesterday and added 1/4 meta last night at 8 pm


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> I know. I wish I noticed earlier!!!! I am not sure I should wait another day to get a different yeast. They have a school where I get my grapes. He knew everything about them and all the test results from the school. Do I have to add the yeast tonight??? We crushed them at 4 pm yesterday and added 1/4 meta last night at 8 pm
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




What is the temp of your must?



Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> What is the temp of your must?
> 
> 
> 
> Sam




It's about 62


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> It's about 62
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




You are fine to wait until tomorrow... If you can get a better choice in the morning then that would be my choice. Snap the lids down on the bruts...


Sam


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

Punch down tonight and in the morning to keep them moist....


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> You are fine to wait until tomorrow... If you can get a better choice in the morning then that would be my choice. Snap the lids down on the bruts...
> 
> 
> Sam




It won't be until later in the day. Like lunch time. My son has a dr appt and then I can run out and get something else. Wish they were open to see why he would pick this. I really wanted to press on Sunday or Monday 


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

We were going to go through it tonight and pull out some stems. That ok? Or should I leave it???


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

Up to you.... Looks like you will need between 20 and 25 grams of yeast for your 20 gallons of must...


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Up to you.... Looks like you will need between 20 and 25 grams of yeast for your 20 gallons of must...
> 
> 
> Sam




Yes I have 25 grams of yeast. I wonder if this guy knows some secret about this yeast or if he screwed up!!???


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## Boatboy24 (May 18, 2014)

Rc212 would be a good choice if you don't have to go out of your way to get it. Sounds like things are moving OK. Don't panic. If your temps and fermentation rate are OK, you should be able to press next weekend.


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

No secrets.... Documentations are there for a reason... I am sure their are many people that buck the system just like using wild yeast.... But proven records are there for a reason.... Again... Up to you.......


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> No secrets.... Documentations are there for a reason... I am sure their are many people that buck the system just like using wild yeast.... But proven records are there for a reason.... Again... Up to you.......
> 
> 
> Sam




I am going to just take the ride out there and get rc 212. As long as it is ok to wait..... I will go get it Tom 


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> I am going to just take the ride out there and get rc 212. As long as it is ok to wait..... I will go get it Tom
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Don't want create more confusion in your life but if you have other choices tomorrow I would pick something else instead of rc-212... Not really the best choice for a Merlot or Cab... But better then what you have now! Read that link I sent you and pick something that sounds like what you are trying to achieve... Just be careful not to pick something that needs a lot of nutrients unless you know how to do that...


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Don't want create more confusion in your life but if you have other choices tomorrow I would pick something else instead of rc-212... Not really the best choice for a Merlot or Cab... But better then what you have now! Read that link I sent you and pick something that sounds like what you are trying to achieve... Just be careful not to pick something that needs a lot of nutrients unless you know how to do that...
> 
> I think this is what they have. Unless they have more they don't have listed in their catalog
> 
> ...







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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

If those are your only choice .... Then yes... RC-212


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 18, 2014)

sdelli said:


> If those are your only choice .... Then yes... RC-212
> 
> 
> Sam




Well think I learned a lesson. Order my yeast ahead of time on line. That's what I did for all my mlf supplies. 


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## sdelli (May 18, 2014)

It will be ok.... RC-212 will make a good red....


Sam


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## Boatboy24 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> It will be ok.... RC-212 will make a good red....
> 
> 
> Sam



Agree. I'm actually using that on my Cab/Merlot and have had good results with it in the past. 

From MoreWine: _Isolated from the Burgundy region of France. Recommended for red varieties where full extraction is desired. Color stability is maintained throughout fermentation and aging. Aromas of ripe berry and fruit are emphasized while respecting pepper and spicy notes, as well. Alcohol tolerance of 12-14%. Ferments well from 59 to 86 degrees. _


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

I am going to pick it up this afternoon and pitch then. If I am doing six 5 gram packets is 2 cups of water enough to hydrate it??? Then I will add my go ferm on day three. 


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## LoveTheWine (May 19, 2014)

It sounds like you are doing awesome!
Sugar levels look like they are in the range to give you a nice balanced wine.

I also went through the manual de-stemming stage a few years back and vowed never again

Here is a tip for removing stems next time:
Make up some screens from chicken wire and oak (see picture),
place this on the brute fermenter and then the crusher on top of that.
Now you can crush through the screen and it will catch the stems leaving the grapes to fall through. 
There will a small build up crushed grapes/stems on the mesh after a while so you will have to periodically use you hands to grate this down manually, but it is fast.
about 10% of the stems will fall through but these can be picked out if desired before and during the ferment as you are pressing the skins down.


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

LoveTheWine said:


> It sounds like you are doing awesome!
> 
> Sugar levels look like they are in the range to give you a nice balanced wine.
> 
> ...




Great tip!!!! I will try that in the fall!!! If not I think a destemmer rental or purchase might be needed. We tried to pick them out last night. Uhhhhh yeah we spent 30 min and decided we weren't getting very far. Filled one 5 gallon bucket with stems and barely put a dent in it. We will just pull out the big ones when we see them when we punch down. 


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> I am going to pick it up this afternoon and pitch then. If I am doing six 5 gram packets is 2 cups of water enough to hydrate it??? Then I will add my go ferm on day three.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Go Ferm is used for initial hydrate... FermAid-K better choice... First dose at initial signs of fermentation.... Second dose at 30% of fermentation completed....


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wineyeastrehydration09.pdf




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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Go Ferm is used for initial hydrate... FermAid-K better choice... First dose at initial signs of fermentation.... Second dose at 30% of fermentation completed....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Ok I mis spoke. I have fermax. 


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

Is fermax similar to fermaid k?? They didn't have it. I just pitched the yeast alone....no nutrient. So I should add fermax once it's active??? It's already starting to bubble a little. Then more about three or so days in?? Just add it right to the must and stir. Yes?


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wineyeastrehydration09.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sam thank u so much for your help and quick response!!! I feel like your my wine guru!!!! 


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

No problem! Glad I can help... Without taking measurements... First dose at 24 hours.... Secend dose at 48 to 60 hours after pitching yeast... Mix with about 100 milil of water..


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> No problem! Glad I can help... Without taking measurements... First dose at 24 hours.... Secend dose at 48 to 60 hours after pitching yeast... Mix with about 100 milil of water..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Ok. Got it!!! Will do!!! Is fermaid k better?? I can order it for the fall season if it is. They just didn't have. 


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> No problem! Glad I can help... Without taking measurements... First dose at 24 hours.... Secend dose at 48 to 60 hours after pitching yeast... Mix with about 100 milil of water..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




24 hours from what??? Really trying not to mess this up. 


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Clock starts from when you pitch the yeast...


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

Ok. Got it. And stir the yeast in?? I hear mixed things. 


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

When pitching yeast you can hydrate... But if you are just going to pitch it .... Mix and punch down the grapes first then sprinkle all the yeast... Mix very lightly for a few seconds..... Done


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

I soaked it in water for 15 min then added it. Pressed it in slightly. I swear once this first crush is over I won't be so needy!!!! 


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

No problem.... As long as the water was warm you should be ok.... Your right... It gets easier and uncharted areas are fun in life!


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> No problem.... As long as the water was warm you should be ok.... Your right... It gets easier and uncharted areas are fun in life!
> 
> 
> Sam




I have been reading and researching but there is so much info out there and a lot of it is conflicting. Stir the yeast. Don't stir the yeast. This is good this is bad. Ahhhhhhhhhh


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Very true..... I like to stir.... But do so softly and not for long... 
Some just pitch and run..... Up to you....


Sam


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Here is my Pinot Grigio after two doses of nutrients...




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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Here is my Cab and Merlot after two doses






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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> No problem.... As long as the water was warm you should be ok.... Your right... It gets easier and uncharted areas are fun in life!
> 
> 
> Sam




I have been reading and researching but there is so much info out there and a lot of it is conflicting. Stir the yeast. Don't stir the yeast. This is good this is bad. Ahhhhhhhhhh


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## seth8530 (May 19, 2014)

What is the temperature on your red wine?


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Kinda cool.... Must temp is Only 72 degrees after 2 1/2 days... Got heaters running in my basement... 


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Kinda cool.... Must temp is Only 72 degrees after 2 1/2 days... Got heaters running in my basement...
> 
> 
> Sam




Mine is only 62!!!!! It's in my garage. It's been kinda weird temp in nj!!!


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Ya... Cool in Mi as well... If you have a space heater then put one blowing on it for the night...


Sam


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## seth8530 (May 19, 2014)

Of course, the temperature you ferment at also depends on what you are after from the fermentation. Traditionally though, warm is the most often done on reds and cool for whites.


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Yes! The ferment temp will kick in and help a lot but to get it to take off you need to try to get it up in at least the mid 60's


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 19, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Yes! The ferment temp will kick in and help a lot but to get it to take off you need to try to get it up in at least the mid 60's
> 
> 
> Sam




Just took a temp. It's at 65 now and fizzing away!!!! That sound makes me happy!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


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## sdelli (May 19, 2014)

Very Cool!


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## JohnT (May 20, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> Just took a temp. It's at 65 now and fizzing away!!!! That sound makes me happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


 

Oddly enough, this make us happy too! 

Over the next 2 days you should really see the temp spike.


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## nayrea143 (May 20, 2014)

This fermax says use about 1-1/2 tsp per gallon. I prob have about 20-25 gallons of must. Doesn't that seem like a lot?!?!?!? 


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## nayrea143 (May 20, 2014)

Ok I am just going to follow the instructions. I am going to order go ferm and fermaid k for the fall grapes. Seems that's more popular. Again my local store didn't have it. Thought they did  


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## sdelli (May 20, 2014)

That does seem like a lot!


Sam


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## sdelli (May 20, 2014)

I just looked it up on Midwest Supplies.... Ya... 1 teaspoon per gallon...


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 20, 2014)

sdelli said:


> I just looked it up on Midwest Supplies.... Ya... 1 teaspoon per gallon...
> 
> 
> Sam




I just poured in half of what I mix. I did half of a ten teaspoon mix. So five teaspoons or so worth. I went with this from keystone home brew

Typical use is between 1 and 4 grams (1 teaspoon) per gallon. Divided doses are recommended, with half added at the start of fermentation and the remainder added midway through fermentation.

So I did the lower end. More like one gram per gallon. Just seemed like a lot the other way. Won't use this stuff again. 



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## sdelli (May 20, 2014)

You got a batch of 20 gallon must right?


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 20, 2014)

Yes. I figured less was safer and too much can cause problems. 


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## sdelli (May 20, 2014)

Your right!


Sam


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## nayrea143 (May 20, 2014)

I should have just ordered everything from more wine. I didn't realize my store wouldn't have these very popular items. Lesson learned. I am too new to be experimenting. I wanted to follow the more wine instructions and I had different additives. So I couldn't. Grrrrrrrrrr. 


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## sdelli (May 20, 2014)

I believe it will turn out fine! You gota admit..... What a great experience too!


Sam


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## JohnT (May 21, 2014)

How is your fermentation going? 

I am just curious to see what your temp and SG readings are at this point.


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## nayrea143 (May 21, 2014)

JohnT said:


> How is your fermentation going?
> 
> I am just curious to see what your temp and SG readings are at this point.




I will take a sg reading tonight after work. According to my metal food thermometer the must was 70 last night 


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## nayrea143 (May 21, 2014)

It's bubbling away and nice a frothy when I punch it down. Nice cap formation I think. 


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## sdelli (May 21, 2014)

Sounds like from your last posts you got it going just fine! Now it is just maintenance.... Punch down twice a day. Keep it covered a little so some gas can protect it a little. I put my Brut lid on it and do not click it down. I lay it on the top of the can with about an inch cracked open. This keeps a little gas from the ferment on top of the must. I would not add anymore nutrient if I was you.... I can tell you that I added Go-Ferm at the pitch. I added Fermaid-K at first signs of ferment. I added Fermaid-K again the next day. I pitched my yeast on Saturday morning. That makes it 4 days old..... My Merlot sg is at 1.001. And my Cab which I used BM4X4 a slow starter and fermenter is at 1.007. AT 4 DAYS! I will have a hard time making this last 7 days for a Saturday press. So.... If you have a good cap and some good frothing going on.... You definitely got a good temp so just let it do it's thing. I bet when you go home tonight and check the sg..... You will be shocked at how low it is already! If I am wrong.... Then add another dose of nutrient.


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## nayrea143 (May 21, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Sounds like from your last posts you got it going just fine! Now it is just maintenance.... Punch down twice a day. Keep it covered a little so some gas can protect it a little. I put my Brut lid on it and do not click it down. I lay it on the top of the can with about an inch cracked open. This keeps a little gas from the ferment on top of the must. I would not add anymore nutrient if I was you.... I can tell you that I added Go-Ferm at the pitch. I added Fermaid-K at first signs of ferment. I added Fermaid-K again the next day. I pitched my yeast on Saturday morning. That makes it 4 days old..... My Merlot sg is at 1.001. And my Cab which I used BM4X4 a slow starter and fermenter is at 1.007. AT 4 DAYS! I will have a hard time making this last 7 days for a Saturday press. So.... If you have a good cap and some good frothing going on.... You definitely got a good temp so just let it do it's thing. I bet when you go home tonight and check the sg..... You will be shocked at how low it is already! If I am wrong.... Then add another dose of nutrient.




Awesome!!! Thank u!!! Sounds like a plan!!!! I will update u guys tonight!!! 


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## Calamity Cellars (May 21, 2014)

FYI.....there is no need to keep the cover on for the purpose of retaining co2 to protect the wine during fermentation. The wine is saturated with co2. That being said, I cover my fermenters with fabric to cut down on fruit flies. It's not a bad thing to cover your fermenter but it's not to protect the wine from air. 


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## sdelli (May 21, 2014)

I usually only cover mine with cloth as well.... The time of steady fermentation does not concern me as the wine is protected as you say... But when fermentation slows and starts to stop... Which could be hours.... Or a day... I worry about it then. Maybe I am just being too carefull.... 


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## nayrea143 (May 21, 2014)

We are at 1.060. It's bubbling and foaming away!! Must is warm!!!! 80 degrees!!!! 


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## nayrea143 (May 21, 2014)

Yeast went in Monday at 3 pm ish. Nutrient last night 7 pm


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## Boatboy24 (May 21, 2014)

You are moving right along! 

Don't forget your punch downs.


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## nayrea143 (May 21, 2014)

Boatboy24 said:


> You are moving right along!
> 
> Don't forget your punch downs.




I am doing it twice a day. Kinda want to do it more!!! Makes me happy. Heheheh


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## Calamity Cellars (May 21, 2014)

sdelli said:


> I usually only cover mine with cloth as well.... The time of steady fermentation does not concern me as the wine is protected as you say... But when fermentation slows and starts to stop... Which could be hours.... Or a day... I worry about it then. Maybe I am just being too carefull....



You are not being too careful you are being normal. 

Most home winemakers take a topic that needs an inch of attention and give it a foot. This is partly from rookie insecurity, partly figuring if a little is good then a lot must be better, partly because they have the time to give it that extra attention, and partly from not really understanding the why's behind the advice from others.

In this case there is so much co2 present that there is really no concern for several days. If this wasn't true the degassing would not be in our winemaking vocabulary


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## Calamity Cellars (May 21, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> I am doing it twice a day. Kinda want to do it more!!! Makes me happy. Heheheh



We punch ours 4 times a day. I do everything I can to attain maximum skin extraction.


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## sdelli (May 21, 2014)

Calamity Cellars said:


> You are not being too careful you are being normal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes... But the key word is several day.... What happens on the last day? Is the wine not entered a state of vulnerability? I do not look at being more careful as being a rookie insecurity... You can never be too careful. Bad things will only result from not being careful.... Never from being too careful! But I do respect your thought on the saturation of co2 to guard it! I am sure that plays a huge part....


Sam


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## Calamity Cellars (May 21, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Yes... But the key word is several day.... What happens on the last day? Is the wine not entered a state of vulnerability? I do not look at being more careful as being a rookie insecurity... You can never be too careful. Bad things will only result from not being careful.... Never from being too careful! But I do respect your thought on the saturation of co2 to guard it! I am sure that plays a huge part....
> 
> 
> Sam



The 'partly' was a general statement and not aimed at you. The 'you're not too careful you're normal' and the co2 saturation comments were.


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## nayrea143 (May 22, 2014)

Calamity Cellars said:


> We punch ours 4 times a day. I do everything I can to attain maximum skin extraction.




Cool!!! I am going to do it more on the days I can. Thanks!!


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## Boatboy24 (May 22, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> I am doing it twice a day. Kinda want to do it more!!! Makes me happy. Heheheh
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I hear ya. That's why I like to do three. Once to say "good morning", once to say "I'm home!", and once to say "good night".


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## nayrea143 (May 22, 2014)

Boatboy24 said:


> I hear ya. That's why I like to do three. Once to say "good morning", once to say "I'm home!", and once to say "good night".




Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!! 


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## JohnT (May 22, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> Cool!!! I am going to do it more on the days I can. Thanks!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


 
Nayrea, 

Nice to see those numbers. A couple of pieces of advice that work for me... 

- Before you punch down, examine the space that you have. If you have a small space, like a closet, that is enclosed you may want to do some venting. By this, I mean that CO2 (at high concentrations) is poisonous to humans. I myself have almost pass out on a number of occasions. I have made it a practice open my winery doors and run a box fan for 10 minutes before doing my punch downs. I know that this advice may seem like overkill to some, but I do not know your layout. Others may dis-agree, but I find this as a "no harm in it" practice.

- I have found that 2 punchdowns a day for these Chilean grapes are quite enough (just look at my avatar). There is no harm in doing 3 or 4, and there is some benefit to aeration, but with these grapes I do not worry about it so much. The California grapes that I get, on the other hand, is a different matter all together.

- I do think that anybody has brought this up, but when you punch down, do not grind the cap against the sides or bottom of your fermentor. I try to keep my punch down tool 1 inch from the sides and never drive the tool all the way to the bottom. I do this to avoid "crunching" any grape seeds which I have found can make the wine bitter. Others may dis-agree, but I find this as a "no harm in it" practice.


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## Calamity Cellars (May 22, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Nayrea,
> 
> Nice to see those numbers. A couple of pieces of advice that work for me...
> 
> ...



All good advice.


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## sdelli (May 22, 2014)

Calamity Cellars said:


> The 'partly' was a general statement and not aimed at you. The 'you're not too careful you're normal' and the co2 saturation comments were.



I understand and really appreciate your input. I am going to be honest.... Never really paid attention to co2 saturation before. Good Point!


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## nayrea143 (May 22, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Nayrea,
> 
> Nice to see those numbers. A couple of pieces of advice that work for me...
> 
> ...




Ohhhhhh thank u!!!! I have been trying to get to the bottom!!!! I will stop that now!!!! And it's in my two car garage. So I think I am ok on fumes. Thank u for the advice!!! It's greatly appreciated. 


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## sdelli (May 22, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Nayrea,
> 
> Nice to see those numbers. A couple of pieces of advice that work for me...
> 
> ...



There have been other threads on this forum on this subject in the past... Although co2 can be very harmful to humans and pets especially since they are close to the floor. The amount would have to be a fairly large fermentation in a very small room with no ventilation. That scenario rarely exists. Fermenting 20 to 30 gallons of wine in your basement will probably not create any harm.


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## nayrea143 (May 22, 2014)

sdelli said:


> There have been other threads on this forum on this subject in the past... Although co2 can be very harmful to humans and pets especially since they are close to the floor. The amount would have to be a fairly large fermentation in a very small room with no ventilation. That scenario rarely exists. Fermenting 20 to 30 gallons of wine in your basement will probably not create any harm.




It's in my two car garage and the doors are opened a few times a day so I figured I was ok. Thank u!! 


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## JohnT (May 22, 2014)

sdelli said:


> There have been other threads on this forum on this subject in the past... Although co2 can be very harmful to humans and pets especially since they are close to the floor. The amount would have to be a fairly large fermentation in a very small room with no ventilation. That scenario rarely exists. Fermenting 20 to 30 gallons of wine in your basement will probably not create any harm.


 
Again, I posted this without knowing her layout. You are right, in most cases it is nothing to worry about. All I know is that with my layout and amounts, I can feel the effects of high CO2. 

I know it is time to run outside when ... 

I begin to sweat, 
Have shortness of breath, 
feel weak of dizzy. 

I have experienced this several times in the past when punching down. Since I started venting the winery, I have not experienced any of these symptoms. 

Just thought I would pass it along.


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## nayrea143 (May 22, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Again, I posted this without knowing her layout. You are right, in most cases it is nothing to worry about. All I know is that with my layout and amounts, I can feel the effects of high CO2.
> 
> I know it is time to run outside when ...
> 
> ...




Wow that's crazy!!! And scary!!! Sounds like u need a bigger place!!! 


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## JohnT (May 22, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> Wow that's crazy!!! And scary!!! Sounds like u need a bigger place!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


 
Well.. I have two choices. I can either get a bigger winery, or stay married..


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## nayrea143 (May 22, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Well.. I have two choices. I can either get a bigger winery, or stay married..




Hahahahahahahahh I see!!! Good decision!!! Crack the door and turn on that fan!!! Lol


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## nayrea143 (May 23, 2014)

Soooooo is it ok if I leave the lid on the brute?!?! Hubby says if I leave it cracked we will get bugs in it or flies. I say it needs to breath. I say then put a crib sheet over it. He says bugs can still get in. Grrrrrrrrrrrr. Tie breakers vote please!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Calamity Cellars (May 23, 2014)

My vote is put the sheet on and leave the lid off


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## Boatboy24 (May 23, 2014)

That lid is nowhere near air tight. IIRC, your Brute is in the garage. I'd be covering as best as I could in that scenario. Although, maybe bugs = body.


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## nayrea143 (May 24, 2014)

Well hubby won. Lid on but not snapped down. Lol. Going to take a reading today and hopefully press on Monday. then on to MLF. 


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## nayrea143 (May 24, 2014)

1.008. Pressing on Monday!!!!! Woohoo 


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## JohnT (May 24, 2014)

Progressing nicely.

what are your plans (if any) foMLF or oak?


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## nayrea143 (May 24, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Progressing nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> what are your plans (if any) foMLF or oak?




I am going to press Monday and add Bacchus and I also have Opti malo plus as well. 


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## nayrea143 (May 24, 2014)

No plans for oak...... 


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## nayrea143 (May 24, 2014)

So does anybody strain or filter the must as it comes out of the press???? 


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## seth8530 (May 24, 2014)

This is where a pump setup would be quite nice ( the reason why I bought mine) I would pump all the must you could off from the skins and then precede to press the wet skins for juice.

With my crude setup I used last year I ended up using a strainer to get most of the skins off of the must and then I pressed the wet skins.


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## sdelli (May 24, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> So does anybody strain or filter the must as it comes out of the press????
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




I press into 5 gallon buckets... Then dump the 5 gallon buckets into a brute that I have elevated off the floor a few feet. After the press is Done I rack the brute into carboys... Let the carboy sit for 48 hours... Rack them again to get them off the gross leese. Then send through MLF


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## JohnT (May 24, 2014)

httpi press into a 5 gallon bucket through an 18 inch diameter stainless steel strainer. i got it at a restaurant supply store. you can see a picture on the following link....

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f19/chilean-press-45141/


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## sdelli (May 24, 2014)

Another thing to consider doing Reney is go up to Home Depot or a hardware store and buy yourself a 10x10 plastic drop cloth... Lay it out before your press... Afterwards just roll ip and throw away! It will save your floor....


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## sdelli (May 24, 2014)

Did a seperate ferment of Merlot and Cab with different yeast strains... Pressed and mixed today before racking to carboys... Wow.... All done! Now just rack off gross leese and pitch mlf....




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## nayrea143 (May 24, 2014)

I am thinking I am going to strain the juice as it comes out of the press. All I have is a large kitchen strainer. So now the question is do I filter/strain it again into the demijohn with a smaller strainer or do I let it sit and rack it the next day then mlf it??!?! Kinda hoping I don't have to rack it again. That doesn't really work with my schedule. Lol


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## nayrea143 (May 24, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Another thing to consider doing Reney is go up to Home Depot or a hardware store and buy yourself a 10x10 plastic drop cloth... Lay it out before your press... Afterwards just roll ip and throw away! It will save your floor....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Hahahah I got that today!!!! So u press and then wait 24 hrs then rack then mlf ?????????


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## sdelli (May 24, 2014)

I let it sit for 48 hours.... Then rack off the gross leese from the press... Then pitch mlf... I like to let it settle then give it a clean racking... 


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## nayrea143 (May 25, 2014)

sdelli said:


> I let it sit for 48 hours.... Then rack off the gross leese from the press... Then pitch mlf... I like to let it settle then give it a clean racking...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Hmmmmmm ok. There is a lot of pulp and stuff. One racking didn't seem like enough to me either. 

Reading was 1.000 today. Shoukd be good to press tomorrow yes?!??


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## sdelli (May 25, 2014)

Yes! Tomorrow is day 7?


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## nayrea143 (May 26, 2014)

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## nayrea143 (May 26, 2014)

It taste dam good already!!!! We got about 16 gallons!!! Going to wait two days then rack again then mlf. 


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## sdelli (May 26, 2014)

Congrats! Looks great!!!!!!!
I did my second rack today and pitched the mlf.... You will be surprised to see how much settles out in the next couple days. 


Sam


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## seth8530 (May 27, 2014)

Looks great! I am jealous of your press btw!

Just a side note, members such as you are why I keep posting here. You came here with a few bad ideas, but in the end you learned from them and listened to the members of the forum. It is great to see someone learning and improving from their old ways. It is also great to see a fellow grape wine maker on the board. I hope that with more members such as you that we can build ourselves up enough knowledgeable grape wine makers to make a difference for this forum.


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## nayrea143 (May 27, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Looks great! I am jealous of your press btw!
> 
> Just a side note, members such as you are why I keep posting here. You came here with a few bad ideas, but in the end you learned from them and listened to the members of the forum. It is great to see someone learning and improving from their old ways. It is also great to see a fellow grape wine maker on the board. I hope that with more members such as you that we can build ourselves up enough knowledgeable grape wine makers to make a difference for this forum.




Awwww thank u!!! This is something I have been wanting to do for years but was too nervous to attempt it on my own. If it wasn't for u guys here I wouldn't have pardon my language had the balls to do it. 

We got the press from Craig's list!!! It's huge!!!!

Clean up crew!!!! Hahahah


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## nayrea143 (May 27, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Looks great! I am jealous of your press btw!
> 
> Just a side note, members such as you are why I keep posting here. You came here with a few bad ideas, but in the end you learned from them and listened to the members of the forum. It is great to see someone learning and improving from their old ways. It is also great to see a fellow grape wine maker on the board. I hope that with more members such as you that we can build ourselves up enough knowledgeable grape wine makers to make a difference for this forum.




Awwww thank u!!! This is something I have been wanting to do for years but was too nervous to attempt it on my own. If it wasn't for u guys here I wouldn't have pardon my language had the balls to do it. 

We got the press from Craig's list!!! It's huge!!!


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## sdelli (May 27, 2014)

Cute!


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## nayrea143 (May 28, 2014)

First official rookie mistake. Can't rack tonight bc I don't have tubing to attach to my auto syphon!!! I swear I thought I got some. Womp womp. Disappointing evening ...... trip to lowes tomorrow........ 


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## nayrea143 (May 29, 2014)

Ok we are racked. Added Opti malo plus and Bacchus!!!! Hello mlf fermentation. Wasn't able to rack all the wine though. I need a little 1 gallon jug  so I will rack the rest tomorrow and add some opti malo and a pinch of Bacchus to the smaller jug as well. Wohooooo


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## JohnT (May 30, 2014)

Sweet Nayrea! 

If you thought that the wine tasted good at pressing, just wait till you taste it at your next racking (after MLF is complete)! 

I like the color extraction you got. Nice, deep, and dark... Looks gorgeous! 

Now comes the hard part. You have to leave it alone except for racking, bottling, and the very occasional spot check. 

Do not keep opening up the wine unless you truly have to and keep those jugs filled up. You patience will be rewarded.


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## sdelli (May 30, 2014)

Try to keep your wine in an area that the temp is close to around 70 degrees... mlf likes that! Stir or shake weekly to keep it suspended.


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## nayrea143 (Jun 10, 2014)

So when do most people run a chronography test???


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 10, 2014)

nayrea143 said:


> So when do most people run a chronography test???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



2-4 weeks for me to test. It can take two weeks, or it can take a few months to complete. I've only done a few, bit so far, they are taking 4-6 weeks for me.


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## sdelli (Jun 10, 2014)

It has been said that two weeks is the correct time... This way you have a good bench mark to move forward from..... It will not be done ... Just a good starting bench mark.


Sam


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## nayrea143 (Jun 10, 2014)

Ok. Friday will be two weeks since I started mine. 


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## cmason1957 (Jun 11, 2014)

I always wait at least a month. Then when the chromatography says it is done another 2 weeks, before calling it done.


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