# Adding distilled spirits to wine



## acorn (Mar 28, 2015)

I recently finished fermenting a batch of cranberry. I deliberately stopped the fermentation early to keep the residual sugar to make it sweet. Current alcohol content is about 10% by volume and final S.G. is about 1.010. I was aiming for the final S.G. of anywhere between 1.003-1.005, but it didn't happen. I don't want to restart the fermentation because 1) I am not sure if I'll be able to control it from going into dry zone (with too much alcohol and not enough sweetness) and 2) it is clear enough by now for me to bother with additional racking. The main issue at this point is that the wine is somewhat unbalanced in that the amount of sweetness that's currently in it needs a bit more alcohol to become more "interesting". 

So, I feel that one potential alternative to back-sweetening is the addition of high alcohol spirit, just to boost the final alcohol in wine by about 2%.

What would you suggest I use?

Thanks!


----------



## vacuumpumpman (Mar 28, 2015)

acorn said:


> I recently finished fermenting a batch of cranberry. I deliberately stopped the fermentation early to keep the residual sugar to make it sweet. Current alcohol content is about 10% by volume and final S.G. is about 1.010. I was aiming for the final S.G. of anywhere between 1.003-1.005, but it didn't happen. I don't want to restart the fermentation because 1) I am not sure if I'll be able to control it from going into dry zone (with too much alcohol and not enough sweetness) and 2) it is clear enough by now for me to bother with additional racking. The main issue at this point is that the wine is somewhat unbalanced in that the amount of sweetness that's currently in it needs a bit more alcohol to become more "interesting".
> 
> So, I feel that one potential alternative to back-sweetening is the addition of high alcohol spirit, just to boost the final alcohol in wine by about 2%.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you are on the right track - 

just make sure you do some bench trials first and remember that the high alcohol spirit will take some time to mellow out over time.


----------



## acorn (Mar 28, 2015)

vacuumpumpman said:


> ... remember that the high alcohol spirit will take some time to mellow out over time.



Thanks for the tip, I was not aware of that. By mellowing out, do you mean that whatever distilled spirit I add, it will take time to integrate with the wine?

As for actual spirit, what is better to use? Or is it all the same in terms of flavor? Vodka, brandy, cognac...?


----------



## Thig (Mar 28, 2015)

I would use Everclear, 190 proof if you can buy it where you are located. It will take less and change the taste the least of any of the other alternatives.


----------



## vacuumpumpman (Mar 28, 2015)

acorn said:


> Thanks for the tip, I was not aware of that. By mellowing out, do you mean that whatever distilled spirit I add, it will take time to integrate with the wine?
> 
> As for actual spirit, what is better to use? Or is it all the same in terms of flavor? Vodka, brandy, cognac...?



I agree with Thig ^
It might be a little on the hot side till time will hopefully mellow it out.

try addind some oak to the everclear and do bench trials with and without oak and keep track of the percentage alcohol of each glass.


----------



## acorn (Mar 28, 2015)

After some online search, it looks like there is no true consensus about the legality of selling and shipping Everclear in NY state, though most sources say it's illegal. Well, I will be traveling in a few weeks time, so maybe I will have luck smuggling a bottle or two from elsewhere. 

Also, forgive my ignorance, but why add oak to bench trials? I wouldn't want any oak flavor in my wine for sure, as I am trying to make it a dessert wine that's on the lighter/fresher side.


----------



## vacuumpumpman (Mar 28, 2015)

acorn said:


> After some online search, it looks like there is no true consensus about the legality of selling and shipping Everclear in NY state, though most sources say it's illegal. Well, I will be traveling in a few weeks time, so maybe I will have luck smuggling a bottle or two from elsewhere.
> 
> Also, forgive my ignorance, but why add oak to bench trials? I wouldn't want any oak flavor in my wine for sure, as I am trying to make it a dessert wine that's on the lighter/fresher side.



I just PM you - 
sorry I forgot the type of wine you were making


----------



## sour_grapes (Mar 29, 2015)

I would suggest adding Brandy. It is pretty mellow out of the bottle, and the taste profile will complement the rest of your wine just fine , IMHO.


----------



## NorCal (Mar 29, 2015)

I second the brandy and if you are only shooting for 2% increase, it won't take much. How many gallons did you make?


----------



## acorn (Mar 29, 2015)

That's 6 gallons of cranberry wine. I am going to go with both brandy and Everclear and conduct several bench trials and see what works. On second thought, I might as well shoot for something stronger than 2% increase, depending how it tastes.


----------



## grapeman (Mar 29, 2015)

I don't understand why you stopped it from fermenting to dry. You are shooting for a normal alcohol percentage and a bit of sweetness. You have it at 1.010 now and that is a bit higher than you wanted it. You are looking at adding alcohol to bring it up to what alcohol you would have gotten if dry. You aren't adding enough alcohol to prevent fermentation in the bottle so since you have quite a bit of residual sugar, you need to add sorbate at this point. I'm sure you can get it back to what you would have had anyways, but why all the extra steps along with the inherent potential problems?


----------



## FTC Wines (Mar 29, 2015)

Acorn, I wouldn't over shoot the ABV on a Cranberry wine. We have made it as high as 13.6 & as low as 10.4 abv. We think 11% is perfect for Cranberry. We usually back sweeten ours to 1.005-8 so your sweetness is in line. I'd use Brandy to kick it up. Roy


----------



## Thig (Mar 29, 2015)

I have tried brandy and Everclear in several batches and in the end it comes down to what you like. I think your idea of trying some both ways is good.


----------



## vacuumpumpman (Mar 29, 2015)

I had the pleasure talking Acorn last night - he is looking to make a dessert wine, So he wanted to add more alcohol without taking the original flavor away by using brandy. 
I felt that everclear or vodka will do the trick and he might have to back sweeten with some cranberry frozen concentrate - and always do bench trials !


----------



## NorCal (Mar 29, 2015)

The question I would have is how do you make the dessert style wine from here, with the abv less than the toxicity level of the yeast, without the fear of future bottle bombs?


----------



## vacuumpumpman (Mar 29, 2015)

I believe that is the reason for the first question again adding more alcohol to increase the ABV and I did also mention to him about using sorbate as well


----------



## Turock (Mar 29, 2015)

Next time, don't stop your ferment short to have residual sugar. Ferment to dry then backsweeten at bottling time. So much easier.

We make cranberry every year and have found that it's REALLY excellent after it gets close to the 2 year mark, aging in the bottle. Everyone loves our cranberry.


----------



## acorn (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks, everyone, for your insightful comments! 

As grapeman and Turock mentioned, I ought to have fermented it to dry initially. But, as I described my situation to vacuumpumpman last night, the reason I stopped the fermentation was because it worked last time when I made cranberry (last year it happened by accident, a successful one, though). Although the alcohol in itself is by no means toxic to wine yeast at 10%, my cranberry is so acidic (2.9-3.0 pH) that the combination of increasing alcohol and acidity made the yeast activity come to a halt. The key to this year's problem, however, is that I stopped it 0.006 S.G. units too early.

Again, I will post the results of my bench trials here in a few weeks time.

As for bottle bombs, I don't envision this happening because last year's batch is still intact, after I added sorbate to it after fining and clarification. 

Lastly, I have to admit, I thought it would be a good place/time to experiment a bit with wine fortification, as I am new to this process.


----------



## NorCal (Mar 29, 2015)

The reason I ask is that I've had that fear in a batch that didn't go dry. Sorbate won't stop it, so you would have to rely on an incompatible environment for the yeast to not come active again in the future. Perhaps the risk is negligible, but, how would you know?


----------



## PhilDarby (Mar 29, 2015)

if you are after a fortified wine your best bet would have been, to ferment it dry, add enough spirit (preferably brandy) to bring the abv to your required level, then, to back sweeten.

What you have done there, is actually similar to the way port is produced (well original port anyway, if you read the history)

If that was the kind of drink you where after 10% is far too low u need to go for 18 to 20% abv in order to kill the yeast off and prevent further fermentation in the bottle or later on (most yeast drops off from fermenting around the 18% abv mark) from that point you can back sweeten without the need for sorbate etc and the wine will preserve for a very long time, due to lack of sorbate.

If that was your goal, buy, youself a bottle of your favourate wine of that style, take an sg reading and use that reading as a guide for back sweetening (ie) just head for the same sg reading for sweetness and use a decent brandy which u like.

if you prefer it dry there is no need to head for such a high abv, but, for anything you want to back sweeten, the 18 to 20% abv is needed to prevent the risk of re fermentation in storage.

Use sodium or potassium metabisulphate at the normal rate, but, omit sorbate and that will preserve for a very long time without risk of re fermentation.

If you intend to store it a long time don't forget to use a glass bottle and cork, i think cork usage has been forgotten, but, cork is produced from oak ;-) so it will age off the cork as well.

Failing that, bottle your wine in a champagne type style, using low alcohol of around 12% abv and expect a fizzy type drink when you open the bottle, but, if you go this route you need to take precautions from exploding bottles and use proper champagne corks, wire and sturdy glass bottles, appropriate to the job, or, if you intend to drink short term pet bottles are also viable.

Hint ;- the higher the abv you ferment to, the less brandy you need and as a rule napoleon brandy is fairly reliable no matter what manufacturer, produced it.

So if you can hit 15 to 17% by fermentation then add 3% or so from brandy, your basically in the ball park.


----------



## acorn (Mar 29, 2015)

NorCal said:


> The reason I ask is that I've had that fear in a batch that didn't go dry. Sorbate won't stop it, so you would have to rely on an incompatible environment for the yeast to not come active again in the future. Perhaps the risk is negligible, but, how would you know?





PhilDarby said:


> If that was the kind of drink you where after 10% is far too low u need to go for 18 to 20% abv in order to kill the yeast off and prevent further fermentation in the bottle or later on (most yeast drops off from fermenting around the 18% abv mark) from that point you can back sweeten without the need for sorbate etc and the wine will preserve for a very long time, due to lack of sorbate.



I agree that the risk of renewed fermentation is there. Normally, I wouldn't take chances, but I think the case with cranberry is exceptional.

The combination of the hostile acidic pH, sorbate and exess (40 ppm) K-meta at bottling which is very effective at this pH, and the fact that the yeast I used (Red Star's Côte des Blancs) has max alcohol tolerance of 12-14% and is said not to ferment to dryness from the beginning, make it an unlikely environment for the yeast to restart after I add more spirit. Hence, all considering I am doubtful of any grave consequences.


----------



## NorCal (Mar 29, 2015)

acorn, thanks for explanation, I'm always learning.


----------



## PhilDarby (Mar 29, 2015)

Sorry acorn i was off on a tangent ;-)


----------



## acorn (Mar 29, 2015)

PhilDarby said:


> Sorry acorn i was off on a tangent ;-)



Not at all. On the contrary, thank you for challenging my vision. It makes me think critically about what I know on the subject, what has been done, and what to expect based on the experience of other wine makers and my own, too.


----------



## ceeaton (Mar 29, 2015)

So say that I was going to attempt a fortified cranberry port or something of the like, would an easier procedure be to fortify it with more fermentables up front and use a yeast that would approach the 18-20% alcohol range, ferment it dry, and then stabilize with kmeta and sorbate and then back sweeten to taste?

Just trying to learn something new.


----------



## acorn (Mar 29, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> So say that I was going to attempt a fortified cranberry port or something of the like, would an easier procedure be to fortify it with more fermentables up front and use a yeast that would approach the 18-20% alcohol range, ferment it dry, and then stabilize with kmeta and sorbate and then back sweeten to taste?
> 
> Just trying to learn something new.



You would need to add a distilled spirit to the desired % alcohol by volume when there is a certain amount of residual sugar left while the wine is still fermenting (how much depends on your taste). Once you add the high alcohol spirit so that the overall alcohol content reaches 18% or more in your wine the environment will be toxic for virtually any yeast to survive. Once you bypass this alcohol threshold in alcohol there is no need to add sorbate. 

The best is to try to have as much sugar in your wine initially so that your yeast ferments it to as high alcohol content as it can. Then you add distilled spirit to the desired alcohol content level (though it will add alcohol, it will also dilute flavor, depending on how much you add and what you add).

What I did here with my cranberry is more of an experiment, and based on the discussion that has been going in this thread, I would advise against doing it my way, if port-style wine is what you want to end up with.


----------



## NorCal (Mar 30, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> So say that I was going to attempt a fortified cranberry port or something of the like, would an easier procedure be to fortify it with more fermentables up front and use a yeast that would approach the 18-20% alcohol range, ferment it dry, and then stabilize with kmeta and sorbate and then back sweeten to taste?
> 
> Just trying to learn something new.



I did 1600 lbs of Zin with a couple guys this season. The brix spiked to 31 and despite being watered back, it got stuck at 7 brix. We got it to referment, but I took 5 gallons of the 7 brix wine, added brandy up to 20% alcohol. It is not too sweet and I'm really looking forward to having it finish, so far it tastes great. Sugar is certainly cheaper than brandy, but I think the brandy adds depth to the overall taste.


----------



## acorn (Mar 30, 2015)

NorCal said:


> I did 1600 lbs of Zin with a couple guys this season. The brix spiked to 31 and despite being watered back, it got stuck at 7 brix. We got it to referment, but I took 5 gallons of the 7 brix wine, added brandy up to 20% alcohol. It is not too sweet and I'm really looking forward to having it finish, so far it tastes great. Sugar is certainly cheaper than brandy, but I think the brandy adds depth to the overall taste.



That's quite a bit of grape there! I guess, if you were aiming to make port-style wine of all this wine it would definitely make sense to allow the yeast to ferment as much alcohol on sugar when it comes down to such quantities, before adding any distilled spirit. It's just not very mind boggling for me to bother with the difference in price of sugar and a bottle of brandy when all I am contemplating is 5 or 6 gallon batches.


----------



## NorCal (Mar 30, 2015)

I guess I could use some junk brandy. It took two 1.75 liters for my 5 gallon batch. Costco Christian Brothers Very Special Brandy, 1.75 liter – $34.30. I guess $70 isn't a mind boggling amount of $, but for discretionary hobby, it's something that registered with me.


----------



## Thig (Mar 30, 2015)

NorCal said:


> It took two 1.75 liters for my 5 gallon batch.



That's why I use 190 proof Everclear.


----------



## PhilDarby (Mar 31, 2015)

damn I closed down a window I was typing in lol, anyway im supping a rather awesome sweet sherry, well, port type wine, I made it to age in a barrel, I got from ebay several months ago, so far I`ve traced its history as far back as the three salmons inn, roserstone, gwent wales uk in 1978, from its original seller, Ive also got doubts its oak, due to its wood grain pattern, when compared to known oak.

When I got this it had no tap and no stand, so they are non original, its reputed to be a vintage Spanish sherry barrel, of un known age, although I do believe it is very old, so after making a fortified wine from some rather harsh acid tasting wine I had and adding napoleon brandy, several months ago, it has now mellowed out, the predominant taste being caramel, with only a slight taste of acid, Ive only got one gallon of this and had a sampler earlier then another etc ;-) its really very very nice, anyway pictures are below,if anyone has any ideas on the barrels age, suggestions are welcome too ;-)

Tbh this was the reason I was a bit off the other day, because I hadn't read all the posts and this was on my mind.

Anyway that's what im supping tonight;-)


----------



## acorn (Mar 31, 2015)

Nice picture. What did you make it from, and how much alcohol you fermented on yeast before you fortified it? Just curious.


----------



## PhilDarby (Mar 31, 2015)

To be honest I cant remember all the exact details, but, when it arrived and I pondered what to make, I had some red type wine on the go, cherry, I think it probably was, with some red welches grape in, I did a rough estimate on abv, added some sodium metabisulphate and napoleon brandy to bring the abv around the 18 to 20 mark, then back sweetened to 1.024, after taking sg readings from some commercial cream of sherry specifically qc and house of Windsor, they where then blended, in the mix as well, after a few glasses ofc ;-)

The wine I already had under way, as a drink in its own right, I just decided to use it to blend into sherry, after winning the barrel, on ebay, at the time it was around 14 to 15 % abv in its own right and was fairly close to its final sg, although I don't recall taking exact readings.

In effect I raised the abv 4 to 5 % using 35 % napolean brandy.

But, reading back on your needs what ever spirit you use would prob work in similar fashion, to achieve your desired abv, if you hit 18 to 20 % abv you wont need to worry about re fermentation so much, if you intend to drink it short term, that wont really matter, just aim for whatever you feel like adding,to suit your tastes.


----------



## acorn (Apr 5, 2015)

Okay, so I was surprised to find a bottle of 192 proof ethanol (96% by vol., imported) on the shelf of a nearby liquor store. I decided to get it and conduct my bench trials. So I set up 4 glasses and added the spirit to wine in proportion 1:85, to have original 10% alc./vol. wine as control, then +1%, +2%, and +3%. After tasting myself and asking a few people to try, I came to a conclusion that +2% glass tasted the best, so I will boost the alcohol content in my entire batch by 2% to get a 12% wine. 

I'll be bottling in about 2 months. 

Thank you all who contributed to this thread. 

Special thanks to Steve (aka vacuumpumpman) for his tips on removing harshness from distilled spirits.


----------

