# 99# plum wine



## ryangws (Jul 11, 2010)

so my neighbor just dropped off 99# of small plums frozen on my door step and said make some wine with this. i have not made plum wine yet.

i have only done one small batch of cherry fruit wines besides about 10 grape kits. so i could use some help on how to start this properly. i have all the ingredents. (well i am off the store to get sugar).

i have been looking at the plum recipe and a few plum threads. so i am guessing about 50# per batch, in bags in the buckets.

i dont have a press.

thanks for your help in advance. any measurements would be helpful (acid).


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## ryangws (Jul 11, 2010)

first problem i see is fitting 50# in one 6gal bucket

guess it has to defrost some first


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## AlFulchino (Jul 11, 2010)

yep you need over flow especially after the cap gets heated up......

you might even thaw out some as a sample and test the taste first....you might be in for a bad or a good suprise,,,i would taste test first


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## ryangws (Jul 11, 2010)

going to use 30# per batch and vary the sugar to get 2 different sweetness

<ul>[*]*6 lbs plums
*[*]*1-1/2 lbs fine granulated sugar
*[*]*Water to one gallon
*[*]*1-1/2 tsp acid blend
*[*]*1 tsp pectic enzyme
*[*]*3/4 tsp yeast nutrient
*[*]*1/4 tsp yeast energizer
*[*]*1/8 tsp grape tannin
*[*]*wine yeast
*[/list]going to multiply this recipe by 5 for a 5 gallon batch.
any help on which color package of yeast to use would help


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## Goodfella (Jul 11, 2010)

Looks good...


I would use Lalvin RC212


You might want to consider some raisins also....


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## ryangws (Jul 11, 2010)

thanks, what would be the equivelent in red star brand?

will i need to hand press the fruit or just let it soak


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## Goodfella (Jul 11, 2010)

Personally.... I would cut it up, put it in a strainer bag, smash it up good with a potato masher and go from there.


Not sure the red star equivelent. I will look into it.


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## Wade E (Jul 12, 2010)

You do mean varying the sugar at the end right to get the different sweetness?


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## ryangws (Jul 12, 2010)

wade said:


> You do mean varying the sugar at the end right to get the different sweetness?



well with 99# i can do 3 6gal batches. i only have 2 strainer bags so the third wont have a bag and i will have to strain it later. going to start each batch at a different sugar amount. to get 3 different levels of sweetness/dryness. 

*If you have enough plums, make several batches of wine varying the 
sugar content (3-1/2 lbs, 3-1/4 lbs, 3 lbs, etc. -- the wine will be 
sweet until you get to 2-3/4 lbs, but progressively less and less) 

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques12.asp
*
i just went to the homebrew store and only got redstar brand (bought 2 of each color). so i would like to use what i have.

just added the water and the plums are defrosting. didnt take much 
water.

one more question. this recipe doesnt use campton tablets. should i add them, because other fruit recipes do.


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## Goodfella (Jul 12, 2010)

First.... Campden Yes!!! Wait 12-24 hours before adding yeast. 


Second.... Use a hydrometer for sugar amounts. Never a recipe.


Third.... The sweetness only depends on sugar AFTER fermentation. Sugar BEFORE changes the ABV.


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## ryangws (Jul 12, 2010)

Goodfella said:


> First.... Campden Yes!!! Wait 12-24 hours before adding yeast.
> 
> 
> Second.... Use a hydrometer for sugar amounts. Never a recipe.
> ...



1) 1 per gallon right?
2) so im doing 2 maybe 3 batches one dry one sweet. what should the SG be for each. 1.085-1.09 for Dry and ____for sweet?


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## ryangws (Jul 12, 2010)

another question

should i save some fruit for back sweeting or just use it all and make 3 batches.


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## Goodfella (Jul 12, 2010)

1 per gallon.


I would start them both at 1.085. I would freeze some fruit to use for f-packs later.


I would sweeten one right before bottling if you want a sweet one. Sugar before fermenting is not the way to do it.


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## ryangws (Jul 12, 2010)

i got two buckets started tonight with all ingredents except yeast (still waiting on a suggestion as to which yeast to use.

yea the fruit was pitted and broken, so i didnt have to do that part.



quote: "I would sweeten one right before bottling if you want a sweet one. Sugar
before fermenting is not the way to do it."

i understand to do this (f-pack) style
but i am confused when you say to do it that way and 
the recipe here http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques12.asp
says to sweeten before fermenting and even suggests to make different sweetnesses 

how do you determing what fruit gets sweetened before fermenting and which after? is it just personal choice or is there a science to it?

thanks for all your help guys.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2010)

You may know this but it bears repeating...


Keepin mind (as stated page one), that the amount of sugar you add to the fermentation bucket will not affect the sweetness, or dryness of your finished product, it will strictly affect the amount of alchahol (A.B.V.)in you wind up with in yourfinished product ( * assumeing that you ferment to 0.000).


After fermentation (and your setteling period, how ever longyou personally choose) and prior to botteling, you add your sugar to taste for your finished product.






*If however,you stall or shorten the fermentation periodfor what ever reason, your existing fermentation sugar level at that time will base your finished product taste.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2010)

First off, in my opinion, most of these recepies (JK included) are writtenvague purposly. They are intended merely to point you in the right direction for the type of wine you're making and not toduplicate the results of the author.
A.B.V. is a matter of personal preference as is dryness and sweetness.


Back to the question;


The recepie states...


*"The first recipe below makes a dry table wine. The second one makes a high-alcohol sweet (dessert) wine."...*

And it does. 
Note that in recepie #1, after the sugar is added prior tofermentation (the A.B.V. factor not specificly statedthough I suspect 0.000 from the extended period),no sugar is called for AFTER the final campden/sulfite addition and before bottling.
End result... an A.B.V. of what ever and no Chaptlization (that's back sweetening for those who don't recognize the word) resulting in a given alchahol content and no sweetness. Dry.


In recepie #2...


You have to assume sincenot specificlystated, that the same amount of sugar was added for fermentation as recepie #1.
Then as the fermentation progresses, more sugar is added, raising the A.B.V higher.
After the fermentation is complete (0.000)and campden/sulfite is added to stop further fermentation (killing off the existing yeast), sugar is added againto raisethe sweetness factor in the finished product.


Hope that helps clarify


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## fivebk (Jul 12, 2010)

Make double sure you test the acidity of the must. Plums have a lot of acid in them. You may have to lower the acid by using some calcium carbonate and this should be done before fermentation begins.

I would use a hydrometer and start all 3 batches at the same level ( my choice would be 1.085 ) varying the sugar amount at the beginning will just change the alcohol level in each batch. and then a month or more before bottling backsweeten to taste.

I also used 2 kinds of oak in my plum and really like the results.

BOB


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## ryangws (Jul 12, 2010)

thanks.

what should the acidity measure?

so i guess i will get 2 different ABV since i did one like recipe #1 and one like #2.

how much fruit will i need to backsweeten, i like sweet dessert wines.
my GF likes dry, so i like having the two different batches.

still unanswered, which redstar yeast should i use???


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2010)

I'll let someone else with Plum Wine experience, answer the acidity level question though I would imagine .55 to .60 would produce a nice flavor.


Two A.B.V.'s
Most certainly. If you followed his somewhat unspecific directions throughout the fermentation process (adding more sugar) your alchahol content will be different between the two runs.


How much fruit.
That's a matter of opinion and opinion means taste.
I seldom use heldback fruit anymore though some biblicly preach it.
If you are adding held back fruit, make sure it's devoid of any wild yeasts as that can restart your fermentation process all over again and also that the fruit you addis asclean as clean can be. You don't want to introduce any bacteria to your nearly complete wine here.
Add the fruit by juice alone, noskins or pulpand sample as you add it till you get the sweetness you want.
There's no hard rule as to amount.
Another draw back here is that any clearing you've done to date, will have to be done all over again for the new fruit addition.


On the otherhand.


If you're not adding held back fruit and instead, Chaptilizing, add your sugar in halfcup quantitiesand stir well. Sample and if necessary, add another half cup of sugar repeating this processtill you reach the sweetness level you're after.


REMEMBER


You can always add more sugar to a sour mix but you can't remove it from a too sweet mix.


SAMPLE, add, sample, add, sample add.


As for Red Star yeast.
Try going to Georges page on yeast...
http://www.finevinewines.com/Home-Wine-Making-Ingredients-Red-Star-Wine-Yeast.asp
... and see if that doesn't help you.


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## fivebk (Jul 12, 2010)

I used Pasteur Red yeast. The acid level should be close to .60-.65. I used 10 lbs of fruit per gallon and did not have to add an F-pack.

BOB


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## fivebk (Jul 12, 2010)

Don't overload your primary bucket. I did and if you look through my thread you will see what can happen.
Splitting it up into 2 buckets would be well advised.

BOB


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## ryangws (Jul 12, 2010)

so after following that recipe, before some of the posts

my high abv bucket is at SG 1.165

too high? 
can i fix it or leave it

i havent started the third bucket yet.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2010)

[chuckles]
Yea. That's preaty high.
If it ferments down to 0.000 you're ABV will be probebly higher than 20%.
Not out of the question.
Again... ABV is a matter of taste. Do you want a high alchahol content in your wine? Cause you have it now.


After you ferment out and stabelize You can still add sugar to itto bring down the hard alchahol taste later.
I wouldn't mess with it trying to change it.
Finish out the wine and see what you think.
Make notes on your exact procedures and next time, adjust up or down to suit.


Great wines are not born over night. They sometimes take years to get it just right.


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## fivebk (Jul 13, 2010)

What yeast did you end up using. A low alcohol tolerant yeast will most likely die off before it can ferment to dryness and will leave it with a certain amount of sweetness. A stronger yeast ( for example Ec 1118 may ferment to dry ) leaving you with a very hot ( high alcohol ) wine that will most likely take quite some time to calm down.
You could add some water and more fruit to this batch just don't add any more sugar or leave it like it is and call it port.

BOB


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## ryangws (Jul 13, 2010)

cool thanks. i had that idea in my head to use a low alcohol yeast so it stops quicker. i am going to pitch the yeast tonight, was just waiting.

glad i didnt try to mess with it and the 3rd batch.

no more room for water or fruit in the bucket.

will be putting it in an overflow, just incase.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2010)

To clarify (with respect)...


I believe what Fivebk is saying here is if you stall the fermentation process early (before 0.000) by either a natural stall where the yeast simply peeters out or a forced stall where you add campden early, you'll avoid the "hot" (high alchahol) aspect and retain some inherent sweetness without adding any additional sugar or fruit.
However. If you let it run outas isand simply bottle it then let it sit a year or two, the wine will mellow out.How well though, is undetermined but the longer the better.


As far as adding sugar...
Adding any additional sugar (or fruit) at this time will raise the S.G. even higher than it currently is adding even moreto your A.B.V. issue.
Adding sugar after you add the campden (to kill the fermentation) will raise yourS.G. but willnot affect your A.B.V. making the wine sweeter without making it any hotter.


Here again. Ageing will play a criticle factor in the success of your finished product.
Don't rush this one to the table and you may be pleasantly surprised.


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## fivebk (Jul 13, 2010)

At 1.165 SG the abv would be in the 23% range if it could ferment to dry. by using a low alcohol tolerant yeast ( say cotes des blanc ) which will die off between 12-14% that would leave your wine somewhat sweet and your alcohol level would still be managable. I would not tell someone to try and stop fermentation it's too unpredictable.

BOB


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2010)

Let clear somthing up here folks.


Stopping a fermentation is not a TABOO andwill not result in any disasterous affects.
No explosions, no poisons, no toxins, no sour tasting wines.


Stopping a fermentation if followed by proper racking and clearing will result in the same results asa naturallystalled fermentation.
A lower A.B.V. that's still sweet without adding sugar.


NOTHING MORE.


Many people do it (myself included) when they want two simultaneous but different, levels of A.B.V. from the same batch and have only one primary bucket to work with.
It works fine.


So please folks... stop waving a red DANGER flag every time you see this mentioned.


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## Goodfella (Jul 18, 2010)

Any updates?


How is this wine coming along?


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## grapeman (Jul 18, 2010)

Handyman, may I please ask you to explain your procedure for stopping a fermentation, including a proper racking and clearing. I would love to learn how to do this dependably and at the desired alcohol and residual sugar level. 


I also want to know how to keep it from refermenting at a later time, preferably without sorbate addition. Since I am beginning a commercial winery, these things would be great to know.


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## grapeman (Jul 18, 2010)

I would like to caution that stopping a fermentation early can and does lead to renewed fermentation later in many cases. Does it every time? No. But often enough to be careful doing it. By stopping the fermentation early with campden or potassium metabisulfite you do so at a high enough level to stun the yeast. Fermentation does stop. If you add sorbate, end of problem. If however you don't add sorbate, you can have problems later. Over time the S02 level drops as it is tied up in the wine. At a certain point it is no longer strong enough to inhibit fermentation. If you do not sterile filter (which the average home winemaker does not have the ability to do), the you have some yeast left in the wine no matter how clear it has gotten. If the temperature becomes warm enough, you can get a renewed fermentation in the wine because of the residual sugars left in it. That can lead to blown corks or exploded bottles.


If you have stopped fermentation early with campden alone, you cannot guarantee that it will never ferment again.


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## Wade E (Jul 18, 2010)

Sorry people for those of you who read the post that has been deleted. He was a rude person with his own version of wine making which has gotten any a people into trouble doing it his way. Stopping a fermentation by adding sulfite requires the addition of more sulfites then anyone wants to use in their wine as wine yeast is pretty tolerant of sulfites hence why we use it to stun wild yeast in the very beginning and then add our yeast of choice and it takes right off. Secondly, adding the sulfites to a fermenting wine will usually cause the yeast to stress and cause off flavors and tastes to your win e. Last of all doing so will get you in trouble cause your just stunning the yeast and not killing it and this eventually when the sulfite levels drop off can re-ferment in the bottle and cause bottle bombs. This user was given a verbal warning the other day for yes.... bashing another member and I do mean bashing. he was much more rude in the last post 2 days ago in which I gave him a warning.


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## Brewgrrrl (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks, Wade. It's not easy to make those decisions but sometimes it is necessary. I've always appreciated this forum as a friendly place that people of all types of experiences and opinions can interact and have interesting wine-making discussions withOUT being insulted or bashed. Thanks for keeping it that way.


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## Brewgrrrl (Jul 18, 2010)

P.S Love the new security badge.


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## fivebk (Jul 18, 2010)

Wade, Rich, and to any other moderators involved in this situation . I would like to thank you all for your quick response to a potetial problem . KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!

BOB


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## Wade E (Jul 18, 2010)

I really hate to do this stuff as everyone has their own ways and opinions but being rude about it is another story. I like the way I make wine and others like the way they do it and even if he likes stopping fermentation with sulfite so be it but dont come on here telling anyone to shut up if they dont have facts as he did as he didnt have any facts either supporting his method and over sulfiting the wine is not the way to go about something IMO. Do as you will but I strongly advise you not to do it that way and that doesnt mean my way is the only way.


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## ryangws (Oct 31, 2010)

Goodfella said:


> Any updates?
> 
> 
> How is this wine coming along?



so i racked it 3 times now, not much sediment left

Gravity is reading 1.042

SG 1.165

this is just the first batch with the larger amount of sugar added. it tasts really good. think i am ready to bottle. it has not been bubbling. i think it is done. i just dont want exploding bottles.

so sorry if i started some kind of war here. didnt mean to

what do i do now. bottle as is? do i ad sorbate before hand?


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## Waldo (Nov 1, 2010)

I would definately add Sorbate before bottling.


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## joeswine (Nov 3, 2010)

I believe that as many wines and wine makers as there are there are as many ways to finish a wine and or control the fermentation process,with success,but ifcontrol of ones opinion is whats needed tempering ,thats way we have a civil community and people tobalance the verbiage,good job wade ,we sometimes need control of our own verbal fermentation.................................I like plum wine made it with fresh Italian plums.........turned out great......


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## ryangws (Nov 5, 2010)

ok, so now i am kinda confused.

i am asking because i dont know how to procede, not because i am choosing one way or another. i didnt intend to start drama, just a noob looking for answers.

since this is only my second successful fruit wine and the fruit was dropped on my doorstep unexpectedly. i am confused because all the grape kits i have done all use sulphite to stop fermentation before bottling, which i thought stopped fermentation so the bottles do NOT explode.

the question i cannot answer is what yeast i used and the SG of the second batch, i might be able to guess but i know it was one that dies of early for the sweet batch and a stronger one for the less sugar batch. as the paper i wrote it down on was thrown out accidently. and i forgot to post it on here.

so i have two batches, the higher sugar one slowed down almost to none. and is bubbling less and tastes much better and less alcoholic than the lower SG batch.

so i would really like to know the best way to proceed so i do not have exploding bottles and hopefully some good plum wine.

1) bottle now without sulphite addition
2) sulphite then bottle
3) let it go longer

please let me know, if more info is needed, i will be happy to provide.
thanks for your time and expert opinions.

i also have a few #s of plums in the freezer to make an f-pak if needed, which i think i might do on the lower sugar batch that tasts more alcoholic, to sweeten it up a bit, as i like sweet wines.


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## grapeman (Nov 5, 2010)

First of all ryangws the kits do not have you add the sulfite to stop the fermentation. You don't add it to the kit until fermentation has ceased. It merely protects the wine by creating an inhospitable environment for yeast and bacteria to grow- causing spoilage, etc. 


Let the wine finish fermenting, although it should have been done long ago. Verify it is done by taking SG readings with a hydrometer. If you don't have one, get one (less than $10). SG readings the same for a few days in a row means it is pretty well done. Since the wine was begun July 12, assume it is finished fermenting. If it is still bubbling, it is from an accidental malolactic fermentation. I would sulfite it now with k-meta or campden tablets at the normal dosage of 1 tablet per gallon or 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons of wine. That will raise the free sulfites level to a level that will stop further microbial activity. Wait for a week or so and monitor any further bubbling. If it ceases and is clear, then bottle it.


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## joeswine (Nov 5, 2010)

APPLEMAN,THAT IS ONE GREAT WEBSITE YOU HAVE,VERY NICELY DONE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## grapeman (Nov 5, 2010)

Thanks Joe. I have to do a lot of work with it in the next month or so as time is getting a bit less hurried.


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## ryangws (Nov 7, 2010)

thanks appleman. that really helped.... 
yea fert has stopped a while a go, looks like

so the one i put less sugar, i think i had a SG of 1.085ish, like i said i am trying to remember. well i dont like the taste at all. very alcoholic. this one had a yeast that went much longer...think the dark red package, though took 2 packets because it didnt start in the first 2-3 days.

anyway, my thought on this batch is to sulphite and add syrup made from leftover frozen fruit and or simple sugar while i am waiting for the sulphite 3-7 days before bottling, this way i can add a little and see how it tastes before bottling....is this right?

thanks


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## Ankita (Nov 8, 2010)

I would consider White Labs WLP720 Sweet Mead or Lalvin 71B-1122 Yeast as it is much better in terms of fermentation and color. I mean while making plum wine from these two I can prefer using any one type.




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## grapeman (Nov 8, 2010)

ryangws you have one more step if you plan on sweetening after fermentation. You also need to add sorbate as well. K-meta and sorbate work together to prevent the added sugar from fermenting also. It only takes about a half teaspoon per gallon, but varies some by manufacturer. If you don't add the sorbate, it can referment anytime and that can pop the bottles.


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## ryangws (Nov 8, 2010)

thanks appleman.
i will do that, glad i asked.


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## ryangws (Nov 21, 2010)

k so i bottled the first batch, is really nice and sweet, abv 15.34%

i am bottling the second batch today
added k meta and sorbate last weekend so they have been sitting in the bottling bucket after racking.

this batch is the one that tastes very alcohol. i am not sure on the SG so i am going to have to guess.

any suggestions for back sweeting?
i have about 8-9# of plums from the batch i am thawing and going to simmer them down. do i need to add anything to it?

thanks


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## ryangws (Nov 21, 2010)

anyone?

the fruit has been cooking on ths stove for about a half hour now.

its really thick, i am guessing strain it though a strainer, maybe cheese cloth?


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## Bert (Nov 21, 2010)

Just adding the reduced fruit juice will add flavor, but not much sweetness....You may have to add some simple syrup to get it sweet tasting wine...


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## ryangws (Nov 21, 2010)

thanks burt.

am i correct in straining the fruit after boiling before adding to wine


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## Bert (Nov 21, 2010)

I would....but adding it may still cloud your wine, may have to let set awhile to clear again....


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## ryangws (Nov 21, 2010)

yea i am going to let it settle again and rack it before bottling

i did a test and liked about 2000ml of simple sugar and 1500 of plum juice pack.

but i only had 400ml of simple sugar and i only made 650 of plum juice pack.

i will taste it in a min.


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## Bert (Nov 21, 2010)

Give it a good stir to get a good mix for tasting


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## Bert (Nov 22, 2010)

Adding the S.S. will bring out the flavor also..


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## ryangws (Nov 22, 2010)

i did stir it

it definitely tastes better, my GF likes it but i want it sweeter, so i think i am going to add some cane sugar tomorrow


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## Waldo (Nov 22, 2010)

Go slow and easy with the sugar and stop just below where you think you would really like it as it willget sweeter with some aging on it and you could get it too sweet.


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## grapeman (Nov 22, 2010)

That would be an awfully lot of sugars to add back to it- much more than normally needed and would definitely make it a dessert style wine. I'm with Waldo here and wouldn't add a lot. That 400 ml seems like it would have been enough and the fruit was from 8-10 pounds which should have been plenty for the whole batch.


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