# slow to ferment



## hobbyiswine

My first few batches of pee took off like a rocket. Good fermentation all the way to dry without any issues. My last batch got stuck at 1.010 and now my latest batch is creeping along. It moved from 1.080 to 1.070 in about 5 days. I am stumped at what could be the cause because I have always used EC1118, my temp is good in the 70s and my nutrient and energizer were added as usual. What the heck!!!! Help anyone??


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## Arne

Have you been whippin the snot out of it. Seems to need a bunch of o2 to make it keep going. I have also found if I start it with one bottle of lemon, let it ferment down a ways, add the next bottle, let it ferment some and add the last bottle it seems to keep going better. also stage the nutrient and energizer, add some at the beginning and the rest as the ferment continues. Arne.


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## hobbyiswine

Thanks for the tips. Seems i have been doing those already. I stir vigorously one to two times per day. I added nutrient at the beginning. Added more on day 4 since it was poking along and only have 32oz of lemon in the 5 gallons now. Will add more once the ferment picks up. I increased the temp to about 78. Looks like my temp on previous batches made it up that high last summer. Will see if that helps.


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## hobbyiswine

I came home very little activity and basically no progress. SG unchanged so i decided to make a starter with K1-V1116 yeast. My EC 1118 doesnt seem to getting the job done.


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## GeoS

How long should it take to get started. This is my first batch of skeeter pee. I put the starter in two days ago and the SG has not changed.


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## ORnurse

What's your temp?


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## GeoS

Its about 72F. I don't think I did the starter right. I don't have one bubble. 
I have a chianti in a secondary that is bubbling away setting right next to it.


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## ORnurse

Make sure to bear it up good daily. For my starter I added water that was 104 degrees, about a cup. Then a tablespoon of sugar, sprinkle of nutrient and sprinkle or energizer. Let it get going good. Then add a cup of must, let it get going, and add another. Once it gets going good Dump into primary.


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## jimmyjames23

Now my skeeter pees not going. Lol

We just had a temp drop by about 10 degrees. 
Gotta bust out the heater on my Mjo-Skeeto.


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## ORnurse

Shoot jimmy,


Mine is down to 1.03 from 1.09


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## jimmyjames23

Lol. 
Irony.


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## hobbyiswine

My pee is still not going. Think it might be the lemon juice i used this time. Was an off brand not Realemon. Hmmm.....will give it a few more days. Hopefully i dont have to flush it. That would put me begind schedule for summer!


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## GeoS

I made a starter last night by taking a cup of warm water and adding a tbs of lemon juice, sugar, and nutrient. I mixed that up to dissolve everything then put the yeast (EC-1118) in and let set. I added about a teaspoon of sugar and lemon juice once an hour for three hours. I then put it in my must. I came home today to whip it and get some air to it and low and behold there was active fermentation.


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## GeoS

Hobbyiswine, as long as it is real lemon juice it should work. Did you let it set for a day or two before adding the starter. This is to let the preservatives evaporate out so it doesn't kill the yeast.

Never mind. I see you already had it fermenting and it stopped.


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## jimmyjames23

I cranked the heat to 78. Now there's white clusters forming. I sure hope they're yeast clusters. 
Day 3.... SG same.


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## Arne

hobbyiswine said:


> My pee is still not going. Think it might be the lemon juice i used this time. Was an off brand not Realemon. Hmmm.....will give it a few more days. Hopefully i dont have to flush it. That would put me begind schedule for summer!


 
If my weak memory serves me, I think a couple of years ago somebody had a bunch of trouble with an off brand lemon. Seems like it had sulfites or sorbate in it or something. Don't remember if they got it to go or not. It is on here someplace, but not sure I can find it. If I do will bring it up. Arne.


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## hobbyiswine

Sodium bisulphite and benzoate are listed on the ingredients for the lemon juice concentrate I used. I think those are both in the Realemon brand also but maybe this brand has more? Yes i let it sit for about 48 hours before pitching. I might head out of town for the weekend. If I come back and its not cooking I think I will dump it and try again.


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## jimmyjames23

K meta in my Walmart brand. 

I think the problem I'm having is I used too much lemon juice. 8 1L bottles for 7 gallons. 
I'm thinking of dividing it into two 6 gal batches and watering it down and adding more sugar to keep it at 1.080


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## GeoS

jimmyjames23 said:


> K meta in my Walmart brand.
> 
> I think the problem I'm having is I used too much lemon juice. 8 1L bottles for 7 gallons.
> I'm thinking of dividing it into two 6 gal batches and watering it down and adding more sugar to keep it at 1.080



My recipe calls for x2 - 32oz bottles to start with then the 3rd bottle when the SG gets down to around 1.00 for a 5.5 gal batch.


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## jimmyjames23

Ya. I thought I had too much lemon. 

Easily solved. Double the batch! Lol.


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## JLS

Keep temperature at 74, should be much better


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## jimmyjames23

JLS said:


> Keep temperature at 74, should be much better



My temp is 77.5


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## Arne

Think this mite be why Lon's origional recipe said to use the lees from an active ferment. That way you already have things going and it is a lot easier to get it started. That being said, seems like quite a few are having trouble with it right now. I Will just about put money on it that it has something to do with temp. not quite being warm enough. Arne.


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## jimmyjames23

Arne said:


> Think this mite be why Lon's origional recipe said to use the lees from an active ferment. That way you already have things going and it is a lot easier to get it started. That being said, seems like quite a few are having trouble with it right now. I Will just about put money on it that it has something to do with temp. not quite being warm enough. Arne.



Thanks Arne
I didn't have any white lees. I chucked the mead lees I had last month. They stank. I'm adding a liter of the pee twice a day to two separate primary buckets. 
Still going but not frothy. I was out of energizer so I'm hoping when I pick up some tomorrow it will get things frothing along 
Lots of nutrient added but I started without the lees and energizer.


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## hobbyiswine

Mine was still not going after about 3 weeks. Pitched it in the lawn for spring fertilizer  I whipped up another batch tonight. I used Realemon this time instead of the walmart stuff and Ozarka bottled water. I also boiled the lemon juice a couple minutes and stirred it very well to hopefully drive of the preservatives. Maybe it will work. Gonna let it sit a day or so then make up a hefty starter.


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## jimmyjames23

I've been adding a liter of pee to my new starters and I think it's starting to ferment well. 
I'm getting lots if fizzing but no intense foaming. But there's a distinct smell of scotch/malt liquor. 
So far half the 57 liters is "fermenting". 
SG is 1.066... down from 1.073

I think we have liftoff.


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## jimmyjames23

I transferred everything to carboys today. Getting 4 bubbles per second. It's just ripping through fermentation. 
Yayyyy skeeter pee!


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## GeoS

jimmyjames23 said:


> I transferred everything to carboys today. Getting 4 bubbles per second. It's just ripping through fermentation.
> Yayyyy skeeter pee!



I didn't use an air lock I just set the lid on loosely, with a gallon jug of water on top, so I could easily open it up every day and whip some air into it. I was getting 2inchesnof foam on top every day.


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## Hokapsig

Geo, check your SG as it will drop rapidly over a few days with that much fermenting going on. At 1.050, add the rest of the energizer and the second bottle of lemon. Whip it good.


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## GeoS

Hokapsig said:


> Geo, check your SG as it will drop rapidly over a few days with that much fermenting going on. At 1.050, add the rest of the energizer and the second bottle of lemon. Whip it good.



I already did that a few days ago. I racked it into a secondary today. SG is 1.020. I'll let it get to 0.998 then plan on racking again, degassing and adding sorbate and sulfite. Then letnit set for two weeks or so before bottling.


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## jimmyjames23

My skeeter went from 1.073 to 1.050 in less than 12 hours. Wow. 
And here I was ready to feed it to the toilet. Lol.


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## hobbyiswine

Update....so I dumped the first batch that was the initial reason for the thread. I came to the conclusion it was bad (off-brand) lemon concentrate that was to blame.

I started another batch with Realemon. I even boiled the lemon juice with some water for a few minutes. Let everything "chill out" for a couple days, whipped up a monster EC1118 starter and pitched it. It is fermenting but not really strong. What the heck!!!! Question is...I am using " Go-ferm " nutrient, anyone use this? I looked back in my notes of previous batches that fermented well and I used a different nutrient but don't have a name written down. Anyone have a suggestion for nutrient to the use with lemon skeeter?


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## jimmyjames23

How many bottles realemon?

What size batch and did you add all the lemon at once. Did you pitch the whole starter?


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## hobbyiswine

6 gallon batch. Only 32oz of Realemon so far. Going to add the rest if it ever gets fermenting. Yes I added the whole starter. 5g pack of yeast. I rehydrated it then baby stepped some must into. It was rolling good before I pitched it into the must. I added a couple tsp each of yeast energizer and go-ferm nutrient just now and whipped some air into it with the drill and stirrer. I have had the temp up to 77 the last couple days and still the SG has only moved from 1.074 to 1.062 in 5-6 days.


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## jimmyjames23

That's pretty good. Mine sat and did nothing for 10 days. Now it's day 18 and ferment is almost done. It really takes off after a while. Just keep adding nutrient and stirring.


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## GeoS

I just bottled my first batch of skeeter pee. I had to crack a bottle to trying. I'm now on bottle number 2. Its going to be a rough day tomorrow! This is really good stuff.


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## jimmyjames23

Great. Now I'm jealous AND thirsty.


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## hobbyiswine

1.052 today. Temp holding at 77. Poking along but at least its going.


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## hobbyiswine

1.040 last night. Gave it a good splash racking between a couple primary buckets. Poking along is better than stuck. Waiting to add the rest of the Realemon. Was hoping to get the ferment going a bit stronger first but will have to wait and see.


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## hobbyiswine

This batch has been going for about five weeks. Put into secondary last week at 1.016. Today it is at 1.013. I don't think this batch is going to go dry. Seems like it is doing exactly what my last batch did. Oh well. Will let it sit a month or so in the carboy. If it gets a lower SG by then I might let it go another couple weeks. Otherwise i will just sorbate, stabilize and bottle like the last batch. Made an easy drinking 9% poolside sipper just a bit sweeter than I had hoped.


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## GeoS

How are you covering your bucket? I found that if I use an air lock fermentation crawls along. I get the best fermentation by just setting the lid on the bucket with the hole open. I do not even snap the lid down I put a gallon jug of water on it to keep it from coming off if bumped. I also try to open it and mix it twice a day to keep oxygen in it.


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## JFire

I made my first batch of SP my 2nd ever of any wine. Since I didn't know if my first wine will be any good I didn't use the slurry. I started by following the directions on the website to the letter. I rehydrated my yeast prior to pitching. First 3 days I saw nothing but was getting an alcohol smell. At a full week it finally took off and was bubbling nicely. Went from 1.070 to 1.050 in 10 days from pitching yeast. Added the other juice and nutrients and its been rolling ever since. Moved to secondary 3 days after. I'm tempted to get a reading since its slowed but still going well


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## GeoS

JFire said:


> I made my first batch of SP my 2nd ever of any wine. Since I didn't know if my first wine will be any good I didn't use the slurry. I started by following the directions on the website to the letter. I rehydrated my yeast prior to pitching. First 3 days I saw nothing but was getting an alcohol smell. At a full week it finally took off and was bubbling nicely. Went from 1.070 to 1.050 in 10 days from pitching yeast. Added the other juice and nutrients and its been rolling ever since. Moved to secondary 3 days after. I'm tempted to get a reading since its slowed but still going well



I would check it every 2 to 3 days to see when it's done. If you get two reading the same at least 2 days apart fermentation has stopped.


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## JFire

Checked it today. 1.010 degassed it and its bubbling along so I think everything is good. Lime Skeeter pee started tonight.


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## GeoS

JFire said:


> Checked it today. 1.010 degassed it and its bubbling along so I think everything is good. Lime Skeeter pee started tonight.



You may want to degas it again once it ferments to dry (~0.995). I usually wait until mine is done fermenting before degassing. The gas is carbon dioxide which is a by product of the fermentation.


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## JFire

GeoS said:


> You may want to degas it again once it ferments to dry (~0.995). I usually wait until mine is done fermenting before degassing. The gas is carbon dioxide which is a by product of the fermentation.



I wanted to degass it to make sure it wasn't stuck and that the bubbling wasn't residual co2. It has slowed down but still going. Probably take a reading tonight.


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## GeoS

JFire said:


> I wanted to degass it to make sure it wasn't stuck and that the bubbling wasn't residual co2. It has slowed down but still going. Probably take a reading tonight.



Sounds like a plan.


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## JFire

Concerned I'm stuck. Been 4 days and I went from 1.01 to 1.002. I degassed and gave it 2 tsp of super ferment. Should I just have left it alone? Or was this a good move?


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## GeoS

JFire said:


> Concerned I'm stuck. Been 4 days and I went from 1.01 to 1.002. I degassed and gave it 2 tsp of super ferment. Should I just have left it alone? Or was this a good move?



Sounds like your getting toward the end of the ferment cycle. It ferments pretty quick at first then slows down toward the end. More of a logarithmic curve than anything. You probably could have left it go. I don't think adding the super ferment will hurt anything though.


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## GeoS

The one thing I have really gained from making wine is patience!


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## Elmer

"My name is Elmer and my Pee is slow to ferment!"
....

I started my batch on 5/22.
I made a 1 gallon batch with 14 Oz of Santa Cruz Organic Lemon Juice (100% pure lemon juice, no other ingredients, thanks vegan store!).
3 cups sugar
1 tsp Nutrient
1/2 tsp tanning
1/2 tsp pectic
Starting SG was 1.080

I figured I would make it a little strong on the lemon juice, since I would top off with water. Seeing as how I tend to loose some volume when I rack and get rid of the lees and junk upon racking.

I checked the SG on 5/24 it was 1.070
on 5/25 it was 1.070
So I added some more nutrient in hopes of kick starting
and on 5/27 it was 1.070.
it is currently 74 degrees!

It keeps foaming up (see picture below) but I am getting no dropping of the SG!
I whip it morning and night.

Should I add more yeast?
Should I add more water (too much lemon?)?

Unfortunately I dont have the patience for slow fermentation! I got to learn patience or get out of the wine making hobby!



 since I keep the lid slightly off to give it some good dose of oxygen, I opened to see what was going on. I can hear the snap, crackle and pop of our little friend yeast doing its business. However is is slow.


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## JFire

Elmer it took my SP with no slurry a good 7 days to rock and roll.


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## Elmer

JFire said:


> Elmer it took my SP with no slurry a good 7 days to rock and roll.



Given that Ferm is sooooo sloooow,
Did you wait to tranfer to secondary?
Or did you still go there between 1.050 and 1.030????


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## GeoS

It sounds like your stuck at 1.07. The picture looks like you have yeast floating in there but no fermentation. It almost looks like the yeast hasn't rehydrated yet. I would let it go for another day or two.

How old was the yeast and was it EC1118?


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## CBell

If you can hear the sounds of fermentation, I'd leave it alone for now and continue checking on it. Skeeter pee, especially with dry-pitched yeast instead of a slurry takes a long time. I am always second guessing my skeeter pee when it first starts because it takes so long to really get started. I bet if you give it a few more days, you'll have a good head of foam and feel silly for ever worrying. 

Once it really builds up it'll go fast.


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## JFire

Elmer said:


> Given that Ferm is sooooo sloooow,
> Did you wait to tranfer to secondary?
> Or did you still go there between 1.050 and 1.030????



I added the extra bottle and nutrients at 1.050 and moved to secondary three days later


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## JFire

Concerned about my sp. I was @ 1.02 4 days ago was concerned I was stuck degassed and added 2 tsp of super ferment. Take a reading today 1.01 ish. Suggestions?


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## CBell

1.02 to 1.01 in 4 days is good progress in secondary. Things slow down a bit toward the end. Be patient, give it a week, and you'll probably have fermented dry


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## GeoS

JFire said:


> Concerned about my sp. I was @ 1.02 4 days ago was concerned I was stuck degassed and added 2 tsp of super ferment. Take a reading today 1.01 ish. Suggestions?



The purpose of the secondary is to reduce the exposure to oxygen, that's why we top it up into the neck of the bottle. The disadvantage is it slows down fermentation. Fermentation needs oxygen. Its a catch 22. 

What happens is the carbon dioxide, CO2, that results from fermentation, forms a layer above the must which keeps the oxygen out. To get some oxygen back in we whip it daily. The oxygen doesn't stay long once you set the lid back on the bucket because of the new buildup to CO2.

The bottom line is you need to have as little exposure to air when fermentation stops. To do this, once it gets to around 1.01 you put it in the secondary and ferment to dry.

Hope this helps. It helps me understand it when I write it out.


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## JFire

CBell said:


> 1.02 to 1.01 in 4 days is good progress in secondary. Things slow down a bit toward the end. Be patient, give it a week, and you'll probably have fermented dry



I typoed it was 1.002 to 1.001 in 4 days.


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## CBell

In that case, make sure it's warm enough (75F) and stir a few times a day for a few days


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## Elmer

I became Inpatient waiting for Ferm to kick start, so I added a second packet of Lalvin 1118.
And stired,
Stirred and Stirred.
Last night I gave a 1/2 tsp of yeast energizer and shortly after a stir I had noticable bubbles and noticable ferm.

I know that hearing small bubbles is ferm, but I needed to get it moving!

For the record I hate slow ferm!!!!!


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## Elmer

Checked Sg when I came home 1.060.
This morning I had a nice thick layer of yeast and bubbles. By the time I got home from work it had dissipated and there was activity albeit just tiny bubbles.
I know the must is not cold, my house is 81 degrees, and the must is 75.

I have had slow ferms before, but not this slow.
Could it be because I went a little strong on lemon juice 14 oz per 1 gallon?
Too much lemon? 

I have added extra yeast, yeast nutrient and yeast energizer.
I am beyond frustrated. I know I have to be patient, but I want to move to secondary so I can start a 6 gallon of DB!


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## GeoS

Elmer said:


> Checked Sg when I came home 1.060.
> This morning I had a nice thick layer of yeast and bubbles. By the time I got home from work it had dissipated and there was activity albeit just tiny bubbles.
> I know the must is not cold, my house is 81 degrees, and the must is 75.
> 
> I have had slow ferms before, but not this slow.
> Could it be because I went a little strong on lemon juice 14 oz per 1 gallon?
> Too much lemon?
> 
> I have added extra yeast, yeast nutrient and yeast energizer.
> I am beyond frustrated. I know I have to be patient, but I want to move to secondary so I can start a 6 gallon of DB!



You might be right, you probably have too much lemon. It's too acidic and maybe killing the yeast.

When I make SP I only use 64 oz for 6 gallons. ~11 oz per gallon. I add the third 32 oz of lemon juice once it has fermented down to around 1.03 to 1.00.

I did make a batch with extra lemon and, honestly, it was a little too tart.


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## GeoS

Try dumping some out and filling with water to get around 10 to 11 oz of lemon per gallon. Ferment down then add more lemon when you go to secondary.


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## Elmer

GeoS said:


> Try dumping some out and filling with water to get around 10 to 11 oz of lemon per gallon. Ferment down then add more lemon when you go to secondary.



I added another 1/2 gallon of water
And I may dump in a 3rd packet of yeast to fire this back up.

I will just split the mix into a 2 different sized carboys!

See if this works!


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## GeoS

Try a yeast starter to get the yeast going first.
1/2 cup warm water
1 tsp grape juice or lemone juice
1 tsp nutrient
1 tsp sugar
1 package yeast
Let set overnight then pour it in in the morning..

I always use this for SP or other highly acidic wine and have had good luck with it.


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## grassybranchwines

I am currently having the same problem. I have been in the primary for about 10 days. Just racked it into a secondary. My SG has gone from 1.070 to 1.010 but now it is quiet. Air lock is not doing anything. Any advice on what I should doat this stage? I don't think it is ever going to go to 1.000.


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## saramc

grassybranchwines said:


> I am currently having the same problem. I have been in the primary for about 10 days. Just racked it into a secondary. My SG has gone from 1.070 to 1.010 but now it is quiet. Air lock is not doing anything. Any advice on what I should doat this stage? I don't think it is ever going to go to 1.000.



10 days for SP to drop that much is right on target, at least for every batch I have ever made & they always fermented dry. Do not worry about not seeing much in terms of airlock activity, such a horrid indicator, as your wine can slowly be fermenting and the CO2 is dissolving into the liquid rather than escaping to the extent you see rapid airlock movement. With summer upon us do not forget to consider the temp, especially if you have your must tucked away in a cool basement. I say check the SG in another 3-4 days, but honestly it can take more than a week (or longer) for those final points to drop. If they don't you simply will not need to backsweeten as much, and you can boost the ACV with vodka or pure grain if you want to.


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## Elmer

Checked this AM, my SG is now 1.020.
Of course I gave it some more yeast energizer, which seems to help alot.

So 2 questions,
At what SG do I transfer to secondary? 1.010?

I orginally had 14 oz of lemon juice for 1 gallon of water.
I boosted up the must to 1.5 gallon to cut the acidity.
Do I need more lemon juice or is 14 Oz ok for 1.5 gallon?


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## GeoS

Wine making teaches us patience.


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## Julie

GeoS said:


> Wine making teaches us patience.



Lol, I use to say that I prayed to God for patience and he gave a daughter,  now I say that I prayed for patience and God gave me the desire to make wine!


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## JFire

Well mine is crawling slowly but surely. It's down to .998 but I'm going to see if it'll keep going.

Lime sp is at 1.012 in primary. I'm going to wait till under 1.01 to move it to secondary. 

Next batch is going to be strawberry started off my strawberry slurry and I'm going to put 5lb of strawberries into primary with it.


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## JFire

Finished the SP today but its a real pale yellow. Almost looks like water in a glass but tastes great. Could the sparkaloid stripped color?


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## Elmer

JFire said:


> Finished the SP today but its a real pale yellow. Almost looks like water in a glass but tastes great. Could the sparkaloid stripped color?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 8632



I am not going to use Sparkalloid on mine.
Mine is still in the final stages of secondary and it is Pee yellow, but clear of any cloudyness.


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## GeoS

My skeeter pee is a slight yellow color also. I sparkaloid it. Look at a pino grigio and you see the same thing.


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