# So why would I buy buckets of juice over kits



## NSwiner

I saw I can buy the buckets of vinterra juice made by Vineco so what would be the advantage over buying kits ? Is the juice better quality ? Is it so you can tweak it the way you like it ? Do you have to add things to it other then the normal things you add to kits ? Guess I could have asked the guy at the store but i really didn't have time that day .


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## Dugger

Darlene - these buckets are no different from the other kits you buy - they have simply added water to bring it to the full 23 liter volume. I believe you will find they contain grape juice and grape juice concentrate, just like kits, and also grape juice from concentrate, which is simply water added to grape concentrate. I understand they are convenient for those who have bad water.
Anyway, they are just another form of "kit" - the quality is probably just below the standard 16 liter kits. I'm not sure of the vinterra, but other brands have the 23 liters in a bag in the bucket, along with the normal additives. Seems to me this bag would be devilish to handle!! 
One benefit is that you get a bucket that could be used for small batches.
Cheers .. Doug


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## Tom

Now don't classify all buckets this way.
I get FRESH wine juice buckets from CA, Italy and Chile. These are pure wine juice. Why buy these? FRESH and no water added and they are "balanced" so you don't need to check the TA etc..! Also cheaper and you can blend them. Kits you can make anytime of the year where as fresh juice is a limited time frame only.


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## djrockinsteve

Tom said:


> Now don't classify all buckets this way.
> I get FRESH wine juice buckets from CA, Italy and Chile. These are pure wine juice. Why buy these? FRESH and no water added and they are "balanced" so you don't need to check the TA etc..! Also cheaper and you can blend them. Kits you can make anytime of the year where as fresh juice is a limited time frame only.



Tom's right, I get juice from California for 6 gallons it's around $42.00~$46.00 This past season I got 6 1/2 gallons after fermentation from many of the buckets. I was running out of carboys. What a bargain.

These juices are that, "juice", ph balanced and clean. The cost of some of the kits can be almost double. Yes you do get additives but if you are going to make several batches I prefer the buckets.

We've mentioned that juice from Chile comes in in May, California in September. Does anyone carry juice from Australia or other areas of the world at a reasonable cost and when are they available?


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## cpfan

Darlene:

According to the Vineco salespeople that I was dealing with when Vinterra was announced, the Vinterra brand is just below Ken Ridge Showcase in quality, TDS, etc. The product is a kit (not a juice product like Tom and djrockinsteve mentioned) and was created partly for a chain of stores in Ontario. It allows folks living in areas of dubious water (think Walkerton Ontario) to make a kit without adding any tap water, and is said to be very popular in some areas.

I was told that Vinterra kits are mostly juice with some concentrate, and that the amount of concentrate varies from batch to batch to allow for seasonal differences in the juice. According to Tim V of Winexpert, adding an amount of concentrate to a juice kit provides considerably enhanced shelf life.

From my own experience, I know that the Shiraz, Merlot and Pinot Grigio are very good. There is a pail of Vinterra Shiraz in the my basement that I had expected to start at the end of the year or in early January but plans changed. Probably get it started in a month or so. This Shiraz was directly responsible for my FoP getting 2 or 3 new customers.

Spagnols has two similar products. Bolero is better than their Grand Cru line but not as good as their 6 weeek kits. Not sure how it compares to Grand Cru International. Their Premier Cru line was added after I stopped being a retailer but I believe that it is roughly the same quality as the Vinterra, so better than regular Cellar Classic and not as good as Cru Select.

PS these kits are available year round not seasonally like the juices mentioned above. However some retailers that I have met only seem to order them once a year.

Steve


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## Wade E

I agree with Cpfan and usually like he also said they are not the top notch quality as a few of their kits. fresh juices are a crap shoot IMO. You can get a pretty good wine or get a crappy win with lots of problems depending n the year and brand. If you are going to get a bucket and want to be assuerd gret quality I wiuld suggest getting Brehm. There are a fewithers but lots of these are pretty lame IMO. I believe Tom s getting some good stuff and a few others but I tried 2 buckets of Lodi Gold and found then to be total crap!!!!!!!!!


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## cpfan

Wade E said:


> but I tried 2 buckets of Lodi Gold and found then to be total crap!!!!!!!!!


I did a pail of Lodi Gold Pinot Noir once. WEAK!!! Weak in colour. Weak in body. Presumably weak in flavour because we oaked it, and thats all we could taste. $50 and some time & effort wasted.

Steve


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## Runningwolf

Tom said:


> Now don't classify all buckets this way.
> I get FRESH wine juice buckets from CA, Italy and Chile. These are pure wine juice. Why buy these? FRESH and no water added and they are "balanced" so you don't need to check the TA etc..! Also cheaper and you can blend them. Kits you can make anytime of the year where as fresh juice is a limited time frame only.



Tom, so all this talk about the Chilean juice thats going to be available this spring is already balanced and won't need additional testing?


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## Wade E

CP. ended up throwing mine in a heated tank if you know what I mean!


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## NSwiner

Great info guys , I appreciate your help . I think I would rather wait & try some of the wine juice from when they harvest at Jost vineyard in the fall . The cost of the vinterra buckets was as much or more then other kits so it wasn't any deal that way .Doug i was thinkng the same thing about lifting the bucket definitely would have to have hubby home to that for me .


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## Tom

Runningwolf said:


> Tom, so all this talk about the Chilean juice thats going to be available this spring is already balanced and won't need additional testing?



Yes. All fresh juice is balanced. Keep in mind it is a little harder to make compared to a kit. You must have all the chemicials like meta, sorbate, nutrient, clearing agent etc. It will also take more time to ferment and some of the reds will be better if you bulk age in the carboy. This is one of many reasons i have so many carboys.
BTW someone asked @ when "other" juices come in I get fresh juice from Italy right after the CA juice comes in (around October) Chilean should be in around April.


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## Runningwolf

Thanks Tom. What would you recommend for Chilean White's.


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## djrockinsteve

Tom said:


> Yes. All fresh juice is balanced. Keep in mind it is a little harder to make compared to a kit. You must have all the chemicials like meta, sorbate, nutrient, clearing agent etc. It will also take more time to ferment and some of the reds will be better if you bulk age in the carboy. This is one of many reasons i have so many carboys.
> BTW someone asked @ when "other" juices come in I get fresh juice from Italy right after the CA juice comes in (around October) Chilean should be in around April.



 Thanks Tom, I'll check on Italian juice this fall.


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## Tom

Runningwolf said:


> Thanks Tom. What would you recommend for Chilean White's.


The only white I did so far was the Pinot Gregio. It came out ok nothing to write home about. I plan on getting the Chilean Viognier this year.
I like their Malbec and Carmenere. I get 2 buckets of ea and their Red Zinfandel. SWMBO loves the Cab/Merlot Blend.


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## Tom

djrockinsteve said:


> Thanks Tom, I'll check on Italian juice this fall.


I get the Italian Amarone each year and "tweek" it and bulk age for at least a year, bottle and let it age more for another 2-4 years before drinking.


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## cpfan

NSwiner said:


> Great info guys , I appreciate your help . I think I would rather wait & try some of the wine juice from when they harvest at Jost vineyard in the fall . The cost of the vinterra buckets was as much or more then other kits so it wasn't any deal that way .Doug i was thinkng the same thing about lifting the bucket definitely would have to have hubby home to that for me .



Darlene:

Lifting the pail is, in essence, the same as lifting a full carboy. Yep it's heavy, as it is roughly 50% heavier than a 16 litre kit (ie Selection, Cru Select, or Ken Ridge Showcase).

Yep Vinterra costs as much or more as other kits. But also less than some other (better) kits. For comparison, these are prices that I would have paid for reds in November.

KR Founders Series (grape skins) $121
KR Showcase $96
Vinterra $90
Legacy $82
Cheeky Monkey $72
KR Classic $68

Canadian dollars. 20 minutes from my home. 10% off on the first Tuesday of the month (hey that was today). There's a one day sale later this month (spin & win - save 10-50%.) There's a retailer in Calgary who usually beats these prices (excepty spin&win). Your Mileage May Vary.

Good luck waiting 7 months for the juice from the winery. You could be drinking the Vinterra before then.

Steve


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## NSwiner

Don't get me wrong I'll be making more kits just won't try the bucket of juice until then . I'll be more experienced by then anyways .


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## Dugger

Tom said:


> Now don't classify all buckets this way.
> I get FRESH wine juice buckets from CA, Italy and Chile. These are pure wine juice. Why buy these? FRESH and no water added and they are "balanced" so you don't need to check the TA etc..! Also cheaper and you can blend them. Kits you can make anytime of the year where as fresh juice is a limited time frame only.



Tom - didn't mean to imply that all juice buckets were kits, just the type that Darlene was referring to.


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## Dugger

NSwiner said:


> Don't get me wrong I'll be making more kits just won't try the bucket of juice until then . I'll be more experienced by then anyways .



Darlene - just in case you're interested, you can buy buckets of juice ( yes, the real stuff) from Pete's Frootique in Bedford ( 835-4997) - they have different types available at varying times but you may want to check them out.
.. Doug


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## NSwiner

Thanks Doug I'll keep that in mind & check them out the next time I'm down .


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## xanxer82

I wouldn't mind trying a few juice buckets myself. A chilean red would be nice. I have yeast, kmeta, sorbate, bentonite, chitosan etc...
I wonder if George gets it and can ship to my door. 
Making a couple of fresh juice pails would be a good precourse to making wine from fresh grapes, which is what I plan to do this fall.


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## rawlus

from my own experience, white juice buckets tend to produce better results than red juice buckets. for reds i prefer frozen musts over plain juice as you still get the maceration of skins so the final result tends to have more body, tannin, mouthfeel, and color. on a small scale, you can press @ home a bucket or two with a large colander over a bucket, put the skins in the colander, then press the skins into the colander with a stainless bowl approx the same shape as the colander.

if i did plain red juice, then i would add a bag or two of frozen grapes from a lug that you purchased beforehand and hand-destemmed and crushed. bzac has described this method before and it is something i think even kit-users can really benefit from. order and get a lug of red grapes next time your supplier is taking orders and just destem it, and lightly crush by hand to open the skins - divide into a number of freezer bags and keep frozen until needed to boost either kit juices or fresh juices. merlot is a good all-around blending grape, i think malbec is as well.


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## nrlightfoot

cpfan said:


> I did a pail of Lodi Gold Pinot Noir once. WEAK!!! Weak in colour. Weak in body. Presumably weak in flavour because we oaked it, and thats all we could taste. $50 and some time & effort wasted.



That sounds just like a Pinot Noir to me (sorry it didn't turn out, but I couldn't resist).


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