# Malolactic fermentation in juice pails.



## wineutopia (Sep 9, 2012)

Can you malolactic ferment juice pails? I have ordered Chianti, Sangiovese, and Cab. Sauv. - all 100% juice - no concentrate. Thanks everyone.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Sep 9, 2012)

You can co ferment but your MLF will not be finished when your AF is done. So you will have to keep the wine in the 70s until it is finished. 
Malvina


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## Turock (Sep 10, 2012)

Sure---ferment them first then do the MLF.


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## Rocky (Sep 10, 2012)

wineutopia, are you planning to make 3 different wines or are you planning to blend the three that you bourght? Just curious.


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## joeswine (Sep 10, 2012)

*Mlf*

i PERSONALLY WOULD NOT DO MLF IN A BUCKET ,NOT CONTROLLED ENOUGH,SHOULD BE DONE IN GLASS OR STAINLESS STEEL ,THIS WAY THE OXYGEN IS UNDER CONTROL AND THE WINE ISN'T EXPOSED TO ELEMENTS ,IT SHOULDN'T BE...JUST MY OPINION.


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## wineutopia (Sep 10, 2012)

Thanks everyone. 

Rocky - I plan on fermenting them all separately and then blending once they are all done. 

Joeswine - I would be doing MLF in a glass Carboy after fermentation hits 5 brix, not in the bucket.


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## Rocky (Sep 10, 2012)

Wineutopia, the reason I asked is that I just put on an 18 gallon batch of wine from buckets of juice that I am calling _Rosso Magnifico_ and it is made up of two buckets of Sangiovese and one of Cabernet Sauvignon. I am co-fermenting the juices. You are making three wines that you will ferment separately and then blend; a Cabernet Sauvignon, a Chianti and a Sangiovese. Since Chianti is (or should be) mainly Sangiovese juice, we are going to end up with a similar wine. I was just wondering if there would be a significant difference between co-fermentation and separate fermentation. Perhaps down the line, we should exchange a bottle.


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## wineutopia (Sep 11, 2012)

Hey Rocky. Oh nice - I got you now. I wanted to ferment separately because I am huge fan of a big Cabernet. I am definitely down for a bottle exchange. Would love to see how it differs.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Sep 11, 2012)

joeswine said:


> i PERSONALLY WOULD NOT DO MLF IN A BUCKET ,NOT CONTROLLED ENOUGH,SHOULD BE DONE IN GLASS OR STAINLESS STEEL ,THIS WAY THE OXYGEN IS UNDER CONTROL AND THE WINE ISN'T EXPOSED TO ELEMENTS ,IT SHOULDN'T BE...JUST MY OPINION.


I agree but you can drill a hole in the cover and put an airlock in it
Malvina


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## BeerAlchemist (Sep 17, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> I agree but you can drill a hole in the cover and put an airlock in it
> Malvina



I don't see why it would be an issue if you have an airtight seal as you are not letting it sit in the primary for very long so something like excessive micro oxygenation would not become an issue as it is for long term storage in a primary bucket so you wouldn't have to worry about acetic acid getting generated. 

I would ask though, if one does MLF in a primary bucket, should that bucket be segregated for MLF wines (like we do in brewing when we play with things like lacto/pedio) or does the meta do enough to keep wines you do not desire MLF to occur in safe?


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## Runningwolf (Sep 17, 2012)

I agree with keeping it under airlock. First off the mlf can take 3 weeks to 3 months to complete. The wine is not protected with meta during this time.


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## wineutopia (Sep 17, 2012)

No no - I am transferring it to a Carboy for MLF - I know that. I just meant are you able to MLF grapes juice from pails? Starting MLF tomorrow on the Cab. Sauv. Just above 5 brix.


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## Runningwolf (Sep 17, 2012)

wineutopia said:


> No no - I am transferring it to a Carboy for MLF - I know that. I just meant are you able to MLF grapes juice from pails? Starting MLF tomorrow on the Cab. Sauv. Just above 5 brix.


 Yes you can, but be aware. Some of those pails come in at about 70ppm of meta and that will be very difficult to start an mlf with.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Sep 18, 2012)

BeerAlchemist said:


> I don't see why it would be an issue if you have an airtight seal as you are not letting it sit in the primary for very long so something like excessive micro oxygenation would not become an issue as it is for long term storage in a primary bucket so you wouldn't have to worry about acetic acid getting generated.
> 
> I would ask though, if one does MLF in a primary bucket, should that bucket be segregated for MLF wines (like we do in brewing when we play with things like lacto/pedio) or does the meta do enough to keep wines you do not desire MLF to occur in safe?


You are correct with a tight seal and an air lock in the cover you can perform mlf without issue. I would not keep wine in the Bucket after completion since the wine is not producing any Co2 and I would not be comfortable with the surface area of the bucket even though you had a good seal. I would prefer moving it in a carboy at that time. But I would really prefer doing mlf in the carboy in the first place anyway.

As to your question, If you are doing MLf in your winery everything around you and your equipment ends up with ML Bacteria over time. So there is always the risk of infection for non ML wines. Furthermore the wine itself can have natural Native ML bacteria in it. So a mere separation is not insurance you will not get the infection. While Meta will stun and in most cases stop the bacteria for almost total protection Lysozyme should be employed. For further protection an absolute filtration at .22 microns will insure no spontaneous MLF. 
Malvina


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## robie (Sep 18, 2012)

I wouldn't try to do an MLF in a bucket, even under air lock. Too much surface area. Do it in a carboy with an air lock installed and topped off.

Also, don't add any sorbate if you are doing an MLF.


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## BeerAlchemist (Sep 18, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> You are correct with a tight seal and an air lock in the cover you can perform mlf without issue. I would not keep wine in the Bucket after completion since the wine is not producing any Co2 and I would not be comfortable with the surface area of the bucket even though you had a good seal. I would prefer moving it in a carboy at that time. But I would really prefer doing mlf in the carboy in the first place anyway.
> 
> As to your question, If you are doing MLf in your winery everything around you and your equipment ends up with ML Bacteria over time. So there is always the risk of infection for non ML wines. Furthermore the wine itself can have natural Native ML bacteria in it. So a mere separation is not insurance you will not get the infection. While Meta will stun and in most cases stop the bacteria for almost total protection Lysozyme should be employed. For further protection an absolute filtration at .22 microns will insure no spontaneous MLF.
> Malvina



Good thoughts...I've always wondered what the dissipation rate of a CO2 blanket is in the bucket.


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