# Blackberry varities



## toddrod (Dec 31, 2010)

Just wondering what other forum members are growing. I will be adding a row of blackberries this year and plan on going with Shawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne and Chickasaw.


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## Sacalait (Jan 2, 2011)

I currently have brazos, kiowa, triple crown, and rosboreaugh. Kiowa is by far the largest and most flavorful. The only draw back is that they lag the other varieties by about 2 weeks.


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## toddrod (Jan 3, 2011)

How does Triple Crown perform for you? I am seeing references online for up to 30 lbs of fruit per plant.

I am now thinking about going with Chickasaw / Kiowa / Ouchita and maybe Triple crown.


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## Sacalait (Jan 3, 2011)

Triple crown is by far the worse one of the bunch. It performs well up around Georgia but I think our heat and humidity are too much for it. I also have the chickasaw and it's just an OK variety for me. However a friend in Laf. has a u-pick-um of chickasaw and kiowa and they perform really well for him.


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## toddrod (Jan 3, 2011)

Laf = Lafeyette or Lafourche??


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## Sacalait (Jan 3, 2011)

Lafayette = Laf.


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## toddrod (Jan 3, 2011)

Where did you get your plants from? It seems that all my local nurseries are carrying just Brazos / Arapaho / Navaho. I really would like to get the varities I listed in 1 gal pots but I will order online and get the barerooted plants if I have too.


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## n2tazmania (Jan 3, 2011)

I ordered my from Ison's. Haven't gotten them yet so can't speak as to how good they are. The website is www.isons.com


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## toddrod (Jan 3, 2011)

That is where all my muscadines come from. Are the blackberry plants from there plants or root cuttings?


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## Sacalait (Jan 3, 2011)

I got mine from the friend in Laf. as a gift... he doesn't sell them. He got his from Roy Young Nursery in Abbeville some years ago. They usually have a fairly good selection and a lot of their plants come from Ison's.


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## n2tazmania (Jan 4, 2011)

toddrod said:


> That is where all my muscadines come from. Are the blackberry plants from there plants or root cuttings?



Don't know. I haven't gotten them yet. I hope they are plants.


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## montveil (Jan 7, 2011)

Indiana berry Farm WWWndianaberry.com

Mostly bare root BUT large root systems and strong stock


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## sly22guy (Jan 7, 2011)

Anyone growing any of these varieties in Pa or surrounding areas? I was also considering getting some in the spring. I have some wild ones on a bank that i want to landscape in the spring so i guess i could just replant them. But hybrids with no thorns sounds much better!


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## Runningwolf (Jan 7, 2011)

Sly I know this is of little help to you but i did get a few thorn-less blackberries a couple of years ago and they took off like crazy. BUT, sorry I don't have a name, I bought them at a local nursery. The berries were very large and tasty but I don't have enough for anything more then jelly.


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## sly22guy (Jan 7, 2011)

Helps some. How many plants do you have? in your opinion if you were to buy more how many would you need to make say a 5-6 gallon batch say 6lbs per gallon


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## Runningwolf (Jan 7, 2011)

Gosh the canes got about 6 ft long and fell over. They were in a raised bed with my garlic. Nice mix huh? New shoots are starting to come up. I have about four mature plants. There were probably four that didn't make it. I am not sure how much you need to plant but I would put in extra for the one's that don't make it. All I know is fresh blackberries are d*mned expensive anymore. If you have the room it doesn't take a rocket scientist to grow them.


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## sly22guy (Jan 8, 2011)

Yeah i have an extra row about 40 foot long. Its in between 2 of my grape rows but there is about 6-8 in between each row. I guess i will just order some roots in the spring and plant a bunch up there. Maybe even throw in some posts and wires to hold them up. Guess ill keep the wild ones until the new ones start to produce. I can always wait another year to landscape the one bank. 

Also do you prune back your blackberries to the ground each fall or just let them go?


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## toddrod (Feb 6, 2011)

n2tazmania said:


> Don't know. I haven't gotten them yet. I hope they are plants.



Did you get them? What type of plant are they? Bare rooted, potted?


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## n2tazmania (Feb 7, 2011)

They were bare root. I was satisfied with everything I got from Isoms. All the vines had a good root stock. All they need now is time.....


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## e-wine (Feb 11, 2011)

Sly,

I have some wild blackberries growing around some trees at the back of our property. Two years ago, after all the blackberries were off, I mowed them down with a rotary mower. I was trying to clean up the area. Last year, I got tired of picking blackberries. I made some wine and it came out pretty good so I thought about getting some plants. While reading on line, I saw were blackberries canes last for two seasons. The first year, the canes are referred to as primocanes and do not product berries. The second year, they are production canes which are referred to as floricanes. It turns out the article recommended you cut the canes after fruit bearing to make room for primocane growth during the second half of the spring/summer so basically, I unwittingly did what was recommended. Unfortunately, I did not read the article until late fall so I did not follow the recommendations last year. I plan to relocate some of the root stock since the vines did well in my area and produced good wine. They produced well in the wild so I hope they will do better with care (which has not been my experience with plants). I hope that helps and if anyone else has information, please let me know.

e-wine


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## stdkls28 (Feb 13, 2011)

I just purchased a vine of Apache blackberries...anyone have any information and/or experience with this varietal?


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## e-wine (Feb 13, 2011)

stdkls28,

Let me know how it does in Houston. Per the information I have, Apache is the best producing of the Arkansas thornless. It was released in 1999, is erect and is reported to require at least 800 chill hours. White druplet and sunburn sometimes present problems. It seems to be resistant to orange rust and rosette disease. I don't have any information regarding resistance to anthracnose. BTW, which part of Houston are you in? I'm in Galveston County.

e-wine


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## stdkls28 (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm hoping it does great since I picked it up at Houston Garden Center...lol Yes I found some of that same information...didn't know about the 800 chill hours so i'll be taking it out of garage to let it get some cool air. I am in the Katy area of Houston.


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## toddrod (Feb 16, 2011)

I had planted some Apache plants a couple of days ago. After doing more reresearch I have found that in my area, deep in S. Louisiana, That Kiowa and Shawnee grow and produce the best of the thorny. I ordered 10 Kiowa due to the continue problem I have with coons in my grapes. For the thornless, Natchez and Oauchita are the best because of their relatively low chill hour requirements. I am putting in 2 each of these and are available from Home Depot and Lowes in 1/2 gal and 1 gal pots.


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## bob1 (Apr 19, 2011)

I set out Apache. 2 year old plants. Should I go ahead and prune off the 2 year old cane after the new cane gets up good couple inches?


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## Sacalait (Apr 19, 2011)

Cut all shoots to the ground after the fruiting season. This is the recommendation from the LSU Ag. center.


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## mmadmikes1 (Apr 19, 2011)

I laughed so hard when thinking about people planting blackberries. Here everyone tries to kill them. They over run everything. But make great wine, pies and jam. Move North


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## Runningwolf (Apr 19, 2011)

mmadmikes1 said:


> I laughed so hard when thinking about people planting blackberries. Here everyone tries to kill them. They over run everything. But make great wine, pies and jam. Move North



...and elderberries


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## bob1 (Apr 19, 2011)

I have always picked wild ones, last year went and picked some tame ones and when 1 one gallon bucket was full in less than 20 min I decided I was planting some. So far the wine taste the same. So I need mine up and out the ground .
Oh and I have 6 gal instead of 3 gallon they make a big difference.


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## stdkls28 (Apr 21, 2011)

My Apache are going to be sparce this year due to it being a new vine, recently transplanted, and rust caused me to cut it back to only a few leaves but i think i caught it in time. It has since taken off and has many vines and leaves not but only a few blossoms. We'll see how those do and prepare for next year.


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## bob1 (Apr 21, 2011)

you know waiting on grape vines and berry bushes for 3 or 4 years is worse than waiting on wine to get ready.


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## toddrod (May 28, 2012)

toddrod said:


> I had planted some Apache plants a couple of days ago. After doing more reresearch I have found that in my area, deep in S. Louisiana, That Kiowa and Shawnee grow and produce the best of the thorny. I ordered 10 Kiowa due to the continue problem I have with coons in my grapes. For the thornless, Natchez and Oauchita are the best because of their relatively low chill hour requirements. I am putting in 2 each of these and are available from Home Depot and Lowes in 1/2 gal and 1 gal pots.


 
So, just an update to this since they are producing right now. The Ouchita variety is just loaded down with huge flavorful berries, followed closely by Natchez. The Apache looks anemic compared to these 2 and I will probably try to replace them next year. I have picked 4 gallons of fruit from 6 plants so far and you can not even tell I have picked.


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## tatud4life (May 28, 2012)

I planted a Navaho, a Ouchita, an Arapaho, and. Natchez this year. I don't think I will have any fruit. One plant has a couple of berries trying to come out, but I don't think I will get anything until next year.


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## Sparky (Jun 1, 2012)

I've got Kiowa. The best year I ever had was 28lbs from 4-5 plants. Last year, I only got 4lbs. This year is setting up to be a decent year, approaching 10lbs, with another pound or two on the canes. Next year is setting up to be better with all the primocanes I have this year.


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## BobF (Jun 1, 2012)

I planted 36 Navahos last fall. They potted, 2 year old plants each with a single, spindly cane.

I had prepared 3 60' berms/rows for them. They were planted 4' apart with extra space in the middle and ends of the rows. My original plan was to prune out the floricanes this year after new primocanes started.

These things are growing crazy! The primocanes ended up growing with such vigor before I pruned anything that I decided to leave most of the floricanes to see what would happen. Looks great so far - quite a few berries and a ton of new canes that are already ready to be tipped.

These are an upright, thornless variety so I installed a simple trellis system. 3 t-posts and two electric fence wires for each row. One wire at 2' and the top wire at 44". The new canes are sturdy enough without support, but we get some wicked winds here. The trellis is to provide support for heavy wind and to tie in laterals, which I'm planning to let grow without pruning for part of them. I've read two different approaches to laterals; let grow and tie in, or prune to 18". I'll see next year which works best for this variety in this area.

Overall I'm happy with this variety, but wild is the only thing I have to compare them to.

Speaking of wild, in this area wild blackberries are considered weeds - they are everywhere. I planted blackberries because I've too many seasons where the rain spigot gets turned off about two weeks before the berries are ripe. I figure cultivated berries will be more reliable and require less donation of blood to thorns, ticks and chiggers.

The estimated crops for these are 10 - 30# per plant. I planted 36 so I can mange for max, but still have better than 150# if I only get half of the lower estimate. IOW, I want to ensure more berries than I can use  

I'm taking the same approach with elderberries.

I'll add pics when I get a chance ...


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## toddrod (Jun 12, 2012)

Another update, I am at 50lbs of berries, picked and frozen, from 8 plants and I bet I have 2 more 5gal buckets left on the plants.


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## Deezil (Jun 12, 2012)

toddrod said:


> The Ouchita variety is just loaded down with huge flavorful berries, followed closely by Natchez. The Apache looks anemic compared to these 2



This just caught my eye... Is it the plant itself that looks anemic? Were they (Apache) planted at the same time as the other 2 varieties? 

If you just planted them, i'd give them another year before ripping them out, personally.

I just wonder because i picked up some Apache this year, but we have different chilling hours being in different parts of the country... Could have something to do with it if all 3 varieties were planted at the same time..

Made my heart sink a little, just curious


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## toddrod (Jun 12, 2012)

Deezil - these are all 2nd yr plants. The Apache just did not put out many flowers at all this yr compared to the other two. With 50 plus pounds of berries in the freezer, I can afford to leave everything as is for another year to give each variety a fair shake. As for the chill hours, we did have a very warm winter this yr with very few days below 45 degrees.


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## Deezil (Jun 12, 2012)

Yeah sounds like it might be the chilling hours requirement then.. Those other varieties are between 200-400ish hours while apache is like 600-800 if i remember right..

Dont have issues with chill hours here, just made my stomach knot up for a few minutes


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## toddrod (Jun 12, 2012)

One thing I can say about the Apache is that I have a new cane that is 7ft tall right now, Tha Natchez has some that are 4ft, and the Ouchita has a couple that are 12 inches at best.


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## BobF (Jun 15, 2012)

*Blackberry pics*

My first season Navahos ...


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## tatud4life (Jun 15, 2012)

Those look wonderful Bob!! I do have a question though. I believe I know the answer , but I want to be sure. To prune my black errors and raspberries, I cut at closest bud at a 45 correct?


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## BobF (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks!

That's it. I tip them just above a bud/node with the angle more or less matching the petiole of the top leaf I'm leaving [pun intended]. Nothing special about the angle, just an angle to allow moisture to run off of the cut.


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## tatud4life (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks for confirming my thoughts!! I need to prune them tonight. They are almost 6 feet tall and starting to lean.


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## BobF (Jun 15, 2012)

Fix them prunings up and start new plants with 'em!


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## tatud4life (Jun 15, 2012)

I would love to, but I don't have a way to callous the cuttings. . Hopefully, next year I will be able to once we get our greenhouse built.


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## Deezil (Jun 15, 2012)

These are blackberries... Pretty weed-like, usually... You can probably just shove your cuttings in some dirt, give them good light & lots of water.. and probably have 50% survival rate.. If you use a rooting hormone, or some sort of plastic covering over the top to keep humidity in, you'll just increase your chances...

A 6-7" cutting is about all you need.. A couple nodes go under the soil, a couple above
A lot easier to propagate than grapes

I've done it... They look pretty sad for about two weeks but then they come around


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## tatud4life (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks Deezil!! I have some rooting hormone that I used on some forsythia bushes. I'll give it a try. What the worst that can happen!


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## Deezil (Jun 15, 2012)

Sounds perfect, I bet you surprise yourself


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## tatud4life (Jun 15, 2012)

I hope so!


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## jdrum (Jun 16, 2012)

if you dont have rooting hormone you can boil some willow bark and leaves and dip the ends of the cuttings in the cooled tea and is suposed to permote rooting


jim


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## toddrod (Aug 8, 2012)

Here is another follow up on my plants. As of right now all previous fruiting canes have been removed. 

1. Apache - Only 1 new cane from 2 plants that is growing pretty slow
2. Ouchita - Many canes came up to about 6-12 inches and then withered and died
3. Natchez - Looking good. At least 1-2 new canes per plant and growing very well.

I will definitely replace the Apache and I am considering replacing the Ouchita all with Natchez.


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