# orange wine and extract



## slowbrew (May 13, 2015)

Alright y'all, collectively we (mostly you, I just did what you said) saved my cranberry wine. Now I need your help on extracts.

I have an orange that is about 3 months along, I've racked it twice and it's clearing nicely. I have it at room temp in the North East, so currently about 70*F. I have sampled the wine and I am rather disappointed. It still needs to clear a bit, but it taste like... Well like it's wine toffoo. It is a simple (not aweful but but not great) white. I expected a twinge of orange flavor but it taste like a wine blank. Sorta like, here is a tasteless wine, add flavor and enjoy... Is this right? Anyone in orange world have the same experience? It was brewed with ec-1118 and 9.5lbs suger to total volume of 5 gal.

So I want to add extract. I purchased it from my local grocer, "pure orange extract", ingredients are alcohol (79%), water, and oil of orange. 

I sampled out 4 oz of wine, and added extract to taste. As it worked out I did a bunch of math and conversions, (google did it, I just typed in the figures, full disclosure...) And it seems like I need about 470 ml extract to 4.5 gallons wine.

Does this sound right? That's like 16oz extract to 4.5 gal wine. Seems like a lot. Has anyone used orange extract and do you know your ratios? Also when is the best time to add it, and should I change my wine temp? If so to what? 


Okay, that's it. Just those millions questions.

Thanks guys. 
this was typed on my phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.


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## BernardSmith (May 14, 2015)

Just curious. What was the original recipe? Would you share that?


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## zimmer2 (May 14, 2015)

Have not used orange BUT I will say the ones I have used [black current, apple, cherry]will overpower if not careful. The flavor will greatly increase with just a couple months of aging so I would stop while flavor is a little weak. I only added 2-4 ozs/5gallons. Add slowly and taste often. Have fun!


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## Kraffty (May 14, 2015)

16oz sound WAY out of line for an extract. I also have 5 gals going right now about 2 months old and the Orange flavor is very very slight. Everything I've read suggests at least a year aging and every fruit I've done loses it's original flavor for a while then eventually comes back to some degree. Maybe some patience and a little sugar will help it come around down the road.
Mike


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## wineforfun (May 14, 2015)

We are talking apples to oranges(no pun intended) I am sure as our recipes won't be the same but when I made orange juice wine, from store bought orange juice, I believe I added 1/2 - 3/4oz. of Watkins extract per gallon. I would have to check notes for exact number. This gave it a nice orange flavor without overpowering it.
I also backsweetened with some sugar and let it age for a few weeks on some dark chocolate.

I agree that 16oz. will be way too much and probably destroy that wine.


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## Ants_Elixirs (May 17, 2015)

My first instinct would be that if you have to add so much extract, why bother? How much orange juice did you use in your original recipe? 



slowbrew said:


> Alright y'all, collectively we (mostly you, I just did what you said) saved my cranberry wine. Now I need your help on extracts.
> 
> I have an orange that is about 3 months along, I've racked it twice and it's clearing nicely. I have it at room temp in the North East, so currently about 70*F. I have sampled the wine and I am rather disappointed. It still needs to clear a bit, but it taste like... Well like it's wine toffoo. It is a simple (not aweful but but not great) white. I expected a twinge of orange flavor but it taste like a wine blank. Sorta like, here is a tasteless wine, add flavor and enjoy... Is this right? Anyone in orange world have the same experience? It was brewed with ec-1118 and 9.5lbs suger to total volume of 5 gal.
> 
> ...


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## slowbrew (May 18, 2015)

sorry for the delayed response. My recipe was
45 oranges (about 12 lbs)
10lbs sugar
2 tsp tannin powder (farther breaks down enzymes)
4 tabs campden tabs (crushed to powder kills existing natural yeasts)
water to 5 gallons.
Stir vigorously, cover loosely and set aside 24-48hrs.

Don't use yeast at this time, the campden tablet a will kill your yeast wait the 48 HRS

1oz yeast, rehydrated, I used a dry wine yeast, EC-1118
4 tsp yeast nutiant 

starting gravity 1.195
About 12%

Cover comepletely but loosely with a towl until fermenting stops. About 10 days. When fermenting stops transfer to secondary and add air lock.


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## Ants_Elixirs (May 18, 2015)

I'm thinking a different path. I don 't think adding a bunch of extract is going to be create a pleasing taste. I'm new to this, but as I recall reading, orange juice don't leave a very strong flavor after it has fermented. Instead of back sweetening with sugar why not try a using orange juice instead? It won't be crystal clear, but I'm thinking it will taste better.

BTW, I just racked a batch that was part oranges. Can barely taste the orange flavor.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49869





slowbrew said:


> sorry for the delayed response. My recipe was
> 45 oranges (about 12 lbs)
> 10lbs sugar
> 2 tsp tannin powder (farther breaks down enzymes)
> ...


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## jamesjr (May 19, 2015)

I have never made anything with that high of an sg but I would assume the alcohol would over power any citrus or orange flavor at all. Actually if the yeast would live long enough that would come out to around 26 abv and it seems like u just didn't use enough oranges and to much sugar. What was your final gravity? And did u freeze the oranges. I have a gallon of orange skeeter pee clearing right now with 32 oz lemon and one can of frozen orange juice. But personally I'd ad lemon.


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## sour_grapes (May 19, 2015)

slowbrew said:


> starting gravity 1.195
> About 12%





jamesjr said:


> I have never made anything with that high of an sg ...
> 
> Actually if the yeast would live long enough that would come out to around 26 abv



I believe he meant "starting gravity 1.095." Fermcalc says that is close to what you get when you add 10 lbs sugar to 4.5 gallons of water.


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## slowbrew (May 19, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> I believe he meant "starting gravity 1.095." Fermcalc says that is close to what you get when you add 10 lbs sugar to 4.5 gallons of water.



Ya, sorry, 1.095. Ma bad. ...Also, wtf is skeeter pee? and I'm interested in the lemon, what can I expect to gain from that and do you have any recipe suggestions?


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## jamesjr (May 19, 2015)

Skeeter pee is just simply lemon wine but u can ad any flavor to it blueberry strawberry etc. It has its complete own forum on here its so popular and cheap it only cost the price of 3 32 oz bottles of lemon juice.


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## sour_grapes (May 19, 2015)

slowbrew said:


> Ya, sorry, 1.095. Ma bad. ...Also, wtf is skeeter pee? and I'm interested in the lemon, what can I expect to gain from that and do you have any recipe suggestions?



Here is the Skeeter Pee website: http://skeeterpee.com/?page_id=17


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## jamesjr (May 19, 2015)

Personally im not a wine drinker I prefer beer but skeeter pee aka lemon wine is my go to wine. I only make one gallon batches of wine but skeeter pee goes quick also if I mess up a gallon of wine I just put a bunch of lemon juice in it and call it orange skeeter pee cranberry skeeter pee etc.


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## slowbrew (May 20, 2015)

jamesjr said:


> Personally im not a wine drinker I prefer beer but skeeter pee aka lemon wine is my go to wine. I only make one gallon batches of wine but skeeter pee goes quick also if I mess up a gallon of wine I just put a bunch of lemon juice in it and call it orange skeeter pee cranberry skeeter pee etc.



I also am a beer guy, I have a porter on tap and a German light on deck with a heffawisen on fermentation. The wine is for my wife, I have two going now, a five gal cranberry and the infernal demon pee.::

I like the idea of backsweetening with OJ. Any suggestions on consintrated vs ready to drink? Do I add campden tablets to prevent farther fermentation from any living yeasties? And when do I do it durring this process? Just prior to bottaling? After the last racking? I have a nice 12% I'd like to keep. ...(whispering tone) I've never backsweetend.

Thanks guys.


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## jamesjr (May 20, 2015)

Im honestly not a pro and I only make one gallon batches when it comes to wine and I rarely backsweeten. But I kno if u add an oj concentrate it will spark up more fermentation so u would have to kill off the yeast and it would take more time to clear. When I back sweeten I use a non fermentable sweetener. Wich there been study's that it can still ferment over long periods of time and alot of people dont do it but I do just because I dont have the stuff on hand to kill off the yeast


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## wineforfun (May 20, 2015)

slowbrew said:


> I also am a beer guy, I have a porter on tap and a German light on deck with a heffawisen on fermentation. The wine is for my wife, I have two going now, a five gal cranberry and the infernal demon pee.::
> 
> I like the idea of backsweetening with OJ. Any suggestions on consintrated vs ready to drink? Do I add campden tablets to prevent farther fermentation from any living yeasties? And when do I do it durring this process? Just prior to bottaling? After the last racking? I have a nice 12% I'd like to keep. ...(whispering tone) I've never backsweetend.
> 
> Thanks guys.



First off, and I haven't read the whole thread to see if you already did this, but you need to add sorbate if you are going to backsweeten. You do this after you have cleared the wine.

As far as adding concentrate, sugar, simple syrup, etc., they will all possibly spark refermentation without sorbate added.

If you are trying to get a "sweeter" taste to it, I would recommend adding sugar over OJ concentrate. The concentrate/OJ won't really "sweeten" it that much and will definitely cloud things up, if you already have it cleared. 

I made a wine from orange juice, already reconstituted with water. After I fermented it dry, cleared and added sorbate, I then added sugar to it to get it to the desired sweetness I was looking for.


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## slowbrew (May 20, 2015)

wineforfun said:


> First off, and I haven't read the whole thread to see if you already did this, but you need to add sorbate if you are going to backsweeten. You do this after you have cleared the wine.
> 
> As far as adding concentrate, sugar, simple syrup, etc., they will all possibly spark refermentation without sorbate added.
> 
> ...



I'm with you dj, earlier in the tread I said that the wine is super Boring. there is no "orange" at all. It may as well be wine made from cotton fuzz. I am trying to infuse it with flavor by backsweetening . Sorbate kills the yeast? And you said add sorbate post clearing, prior to backsweetening is that after your final racking? Do I need to give the sorbate any alone time with the wine or is it ready to party? 1 and how long do you wait after backsweetening until you bottle? I don't want any basement orange bombs going off.


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## MarcMaserati (May 21, 2015)

The orange wine seems like a pretty basic one. What was the body of this wine just using oranges and sugar? I might have put in a few bananas.

It's one to try!

-Marc


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## wineforfun (May 21, 2015)

slowbrew said:


> I'm with you dj, earlier in the tread I said that the wine is super Boring. there is no "orange" at all. It may as well be wine made from cotton fuzz. I am trying to infuse it with flavor by backsweetening . Sorbate kills the yeast? And you said add sorbate post clearing, prior to backsweetening is that after your final racking? Do I need to give the sorbate any alone time with the wine or is it ready to party? 1 and how long do you wait after backsweetening until you bottle? I don't want any basement orange bombs going off.



When I made mine, I backsweetened and added some orange extract. I would have to look at notes but it wasn't very much extract. I then racked it onto some Lindt 85% dark chocolate for 2 weeks. It ended up with a pretty unique flavor.

Sorbate helps deter any rogue yeasts left behind from re-fermenting with the sugar addition from backsweetening.

I, and most, do it post clearing so you can rid your wine of all the yeast and leftovers that you possibly can.

I usually add the sorbate and then backsweeten right away. I have added it and waited a day or two but so far, I haven't had any issues backsweetening right away.

I normally bottle within a week of backsweetening. I usually sorbate/backsweeten one weekend and then bottle the next. This is just how I do it. I am sure you could bottle right away or let it sit longer than one week.


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## jensmith (May 21, 2015)

Standerd backsweetning rule. Add sorbate and campton together. They work best that way. Sorbate alone just keeps the yeast from breeding. It does not kill off the yeast. That is why you wait untill the wine is clear. Clear wine has very little live yeast compared to cloudy wine. Campton tabs stun the yeast, also not killing it. Together they stun the yeast then keep it from multiplying. 
Soo. Add sorbate per pakage directions plus one campton tab per galleon of wine. Mix well, in a cup and then dump and gently swirl in the carboy. ( if you added a campton tab in the last few weeks you may not need to add more, or half.) I like to let it sit a day. Then add orange juice concentrate. Gently stirr. Let sit another day. Take an sg reading. Taste test. If perfect I like to wait a week and retake sg to make sure it has not refermated. Then bottle. Of not perfect add more oj and retest next day. 

The more juice or concentrate you add the lower the abv will be.... A few cups or even a whole quart should not bother it much. Just something to be aware of. 

Or add an orange flavored brady type drink. No worries about refermenting and flavore bost! But abv bost as well..... 


Sent from my iPod touch using Wine Making


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## slowbrew (May 22, 2015)

Wowzers. Somebody get a carboey so we can contain all this knoweledge. 

Jensmith, nailed it with the orange backsweetening and sorbate/campton. Awesome stuff.

Wineforfum, all questions answered. You guys rule.

Here's the move in going to go with. 
orange  is really the flavor in going for, so I will rack because it's just that time anyway, into sorbate/campton orange concentrate slurry. I will use about 4 concintate containers, that should bring the flavor up to about half what you drink with your toast in the morning.(...I think, I will Read the directions on the concentrate can and go from their And based on the 5 gals of wine) I do like the idea of the chocolate, but I that's not what I'm going for. Let all this hang out and clear up a bit for another two weeks or so then rack and bottle.

Buuutt, at the end of summer, I'm starting a strawberry batch, chocolate strawberry wine? That will get the knickers off the wife for sure

Again, pleasure working with the best. You guys are awesome... for realz


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## ttd666 (May 27, 2015)

Where do you guys get your extract from? I don't think ive ever seen it at the store... Unless i just over look it


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## slowbrew (May 28, 2015)

ttd666 said:


> Where do you guys get your extract from? I don't think ive ever seen it at the store... Unless i just over look it



From the local grocery store. I'm not sure exactly where, my wife picked it up for me but I bet it's in the baking area or near the vanella extract.


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## aaronjohn (Dec 30, 2017)

Last Sunday I made this orange wine, but my ingredients are different: 1 Camden tablet (a handy form of sulfur dioxide for disinfecting and sterilizing), 1/2 teaspoon grape tannin, Wine yeast, Yeast nutrient, and added some homemade orange extract for flavor. It's delicious and tasty. You must try this one at home. Click here to know more: https://foodgear.org/substitute-for-orange-extract/


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