# Airlock on the Primary or not?



## arcticsid (Jan 3, 2012)

This just frikking cracks me up. This is my 5th post ever in the forum. But, it is still relevant, I quess!! LOL.

This same question has came up recently and I am hoping we can clarify this for some of the new members..

That was like 4000 posts ago!!! LOL. Glad to still be here. My monthly membership fee is in the mail! LOL

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1662

So...is it necessary or not?

During the primary fermentation yeast wants oxegen and will create a blanket of so2 thereby protecting it.

Not allowing enough oxegen to a fermenting must can create the "funky" smells we know so well, and can inhibit the actual ferment itself.

Bottom line..do we need, and is it necessary to have a primary ferment under an airlock?


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## Flem (Jan 3, 2012)

Does it NEED to be under airlock?---NO. 
Can it be under airlock?---YES. After it reaches an SG of around 1.002. Prior to that it needs oxygen.
I have done it both ways and either works fine. It's your preference.


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## Arne (Jan 4, 2012)

Flem said:


> Does it NEED to be under airlock?---NO.
> Can it be under airlock?---YES.
> I have done it both ways and either works fine. It's your preference.



I'm with you Flem. have done it both ways and both work. I prefer a tea towel with the lid set on top. Makes it easy to stir and keeps the critters out. Arne.


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## Rocky (Jan 4, 2012)

I have never tried it with an airlock in primary, mostly because I think it needs some oxygen, it is easier to access for stirring and that is the way my "Poppy" did it. I keep the cover on to _limit_ the exposure to air and to keep extraneous "protein" from getting into the wine.


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## JohnT (Jan 4, 2012)

You should not place primary under a fermentation lock..

Primary fermentation is so active that a protective "blanket" of CO2 is constantly pushing the air away from the fermenting wine. Additionally, yeast benefits from what little oxygen makes its way to your fermenting must. An airlock prevents oxygen from reaching the wine. An airlock also works to trap any hydorgen sulfide that might form during fermentation which can cause serious sulfur related problems later on. 

Others may disagree, but I suggest to open ferment. Leave the lid off of the bucket and just cover with plastic to prevent any debris from landing in the wine. 

johnT.


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## robie (Jan 4, 2012)

I agree with all of the above. I know some kits have you lock down the wine in the primary and I assume it works out OK, else they wouldn't recommend it. Some say there is enough oxygen already in the must to carry it through primary... I don't necessarily agree. Maybe for a white wine, which can oxidize easily.

However, from the standpoint of the principles of aerobic (primary) fermentation, oxygen is required for healthy yeast and complete fermentation.

For both whites and reds, during primary I set the lid on the fermenter and don't lock it down. I open the lid twice a day and stir the wine to let in some air. That is what I do, but I know others do it differently and also have good results.


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## JohnT (Jan 4, 2012)

Robie, 

Much better said... 

For reds, I simply cover with a new painter's plastic tarp and punch down twice a day. This increases the exposure of skins in the must and also, more impartantly, airates the wine.

johnT.


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## WineYooper (Jan 4, 2012)

I like to use my primary lid with an airlock in it just sitting on the bucket without it snapped down. Lets pressure out and is easy access for stirring. For five months of the year I end up putting towels around the primary to keep warm so it works good for this as well.


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## rhoffart (Jan 4, 2012)

robie said:


> For both whites and reds, during primary I set the lid on the fermenter and don't lock it down. I open the lid twice a day and stir the wine to let in some air. That is what I do



exactly same here ...


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## Rocky (Jan 4, 2012)

This discussion is starting to remind me of a "Yogi Berra-ism" when he said, "Good hitting will always stop good pitching and vice versa."


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## arcticsid (Jan 4, 2012)

Stil no conclusive answer here!

While a yeast is fermenting, does it need oxegon?

Relieve the pressure? If there is pressure it probably wants to go somewhere!!


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## arcticsid (Jan 4, 2012)

sorry, jusy had to say it! LOL


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## milbrosa (Jan 4, 2012)

arcticsid said:


> Bottom line..do we need, and is it necessary to have a primary ferment under an airlock?






arcticsid said:


> Stil no conclusive answer here!
> 
> While a yeast is fermenting, does it need oxegon?



No, there is no need to have a primary ferment under airlock. 

No, yeast that are fermenting do not need oxygen. 

Yeast need oxygen during the growth phase when they are dividing and increasing their numbers greatly. Once that point is reached, they will begin fermentation. That can be carried out anaerobically or in the presence of oxygen. The wikipedia article on fermentation says that yeast prefer the fermentation path over that of oxidative phosphorylation, even in the presence of abundant oxygen.

Even though yeast do not need oxygen for fermentation, that does not make it imperative to carry out fermentation in primary under an airlock. The oxygen doesn't hurt because the yeast prefer the fermentation pathway. It's much simpler to manage the must during primary fermentation if it is done with a simple cover on the primary fermentation vessel. So putting a primary under airlock just makes the must management more difficult.

That's no doubt a tremendous oversimplification, and it's possible I'm mistaken (I'm no expert, I just know how to google), so I won't claim my answer is conclusive. But that is my understanding.


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## arcticsid (Jan 5, 2012)

Thank you, now we are heading somewhere.

I remember back in the day, I had a stuck cranberry. On the advise of the gang, I "splash racked" it. (poured agressively from one container to the other), during the primary.

This of course added oxegen and after doing this it fired back up.

So if oxegen isn't necessary, than why was this technique so successful?

Mind you, I am not saying not to cover your must, I am asking is it the best way to go under an airlock?

Anyone?


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## Arne (Jan 5, 2012)

Gotta hijack your thread just a little bit Troy. If you snap the lid on during primary, there is a lot of work being done by the yeast. The c.o. comes out of the airlock. How about one of you scientific types figure out how to harness the energy coming off the yeast and finding something useful to do with it. I'm not smart enough to figure out what to do with it, but I am a pretty good copyier (sp?) . Later, Arne.


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## arcticsid (Jan 5, 2012)

Surely we have a scientist amongst us!

Harnessing this could indeed be valuable.



Wait! Thats a different kind of gas! 

LMFAO!


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## Arne (Jan 5, 2012)

arcticsid said:


> Surely we have a scientist amongst us!
> 
> Harnessing this could indeed be valuable.
> 
> ...



Not much different. Ha, ha, ha, Arne.


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## jswordy (Jan 13, 2012)

I just toss a towel over my primary to keep the bugs out until it starts to slow down, then take a reading and rack.

Meanwhile, while we discuss the finer points, here's a picture of beginning fermentation at an 85,000 case a year commercial winery.







Let's just say there are several things in the photo I find of interest.


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