# I think... i added too much sugar



## rene525d (Sep 5, 2011)

Hi all,

this is my first time making wine. I am Rene from Malta and I used 300KG of San Giovese graped. I crushed them all in a large tank, and when i took the readings with the hydrometer the juice at the top read .075 on the hydrometer (10% alcohol) and .090 at the bottom of the tank (12% alcohol). The juice from the grapes should amount to around 150 Litres. Now... the stupid part... i wanted the wine to have 14% alcohol, and the hydrometer instructions instructed me to add 9KG of sugar to achieve that volume. I dissolved the sugar is 10 liters of water, and added it in the tank. An hour later i take the readings:

Top of tank: 1100 (14.9% alcohol)
Bottom of tank: 1120 (16.3% alcohol) <-- This marks in the dessert wine range on the hydrometer.

Did i really add too much sugar? Will the wine be sweet? I added 60g of yeast and 60g of yeast nutrient as well. Should i add water to reduce the sugar content? I do not like sweet wine.


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## rene525d (Sep 5, 2011)

I added 7KG not 9KG as stated by the instructions however i think it i still added a lot!


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## Rocky (Sep 5, 2011)

Hello, Rene, and welcome to the forum. 

I am not quite clear on why you are getting different readings at the top and bottom of the tank. Perhaps you need to mix the wine thoroughly, as with a large paddle, and then take a reading. Also, with such a high sugar content I am curious as to what type of yeast you used. Has fermentation started and if so, is it vigorous?

As to your questions, assuming that the wine ferments fully to an SG of 0.995 or so, it will be _high in alcohol and dry,_ that is without sweetness. It would be at that point that I would decide what I want to do with the wine. I would not do anything at this point. The wine may turn out to be something that you like very much. If you decide to reduce the alcohol content, you can do so later. You say that you do not like sweet wine. Do you mean you do not want any sweetness at all or would an "off dry" (i.e. 1-2% residual sugar) wine be okay? You could accomplish this by fermenting to dry, adding Potassium Sorbate and then adding more grape juice to the mixture. This would reduce the percentage of alcohol while slightly sweetening the wine.

My point and advice at this juncture is to let nature take its course. You can always make changes later. Good luck.


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## rene525d (Sep 5, 2011)

Hi Thanks for your welcome and reply to my query. I will let you know tomorrow morning with regards to the fermentation process as the wine is at another location. I used Youngs Dried Active Yeast and also a Youngs Yeast Nutrient. I also have 3 packs (5g) of lavalin 118 yeast, should i use it now or only if fermentation does not start? Thanks.


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## Rocky (Sep 5, 2011)

I am not familiar with the Young's Yeast or the Lavalin 118 products unless mean you "Lalvin EC-1118." If you have Lalvin EC-1118, it would be a good choice for such a high sugar content. You do not need to do anything now unless fermentation does not start. Try to ferment in an ambient temperature of about 24 degrees C. Stir your wine and skins a couple times a day to redistribute the yeast. 

You will find a great deal of guidance on this site. Please keep us up to date on your progress.


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## rene525d (Sep 5, 2011)

Yes the one i meant was Lalvin EC-1118. I will wait and see what happens. So if i understand you correctly, no matter the amount of sugar present in the wine, if the hydrometer gives a reading below < 1.000 it means that all the sugar has been converted to alcohol and the wine will not be sweet. 

If the hydrometer reading remains greater then 1.000 it means that some sugar is still present and i still need to add more yeast to convert the remaining sugar into alcohol. 

In that case will it be safe to mix the lavlin yeast with the current yeast?

Temperature is stable as it located in a shelter. Tomorrow morning i will check and report back. I hope that fermentation will have started by then.


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## Rocky (Sep 5, 2011)

The principle of taking a hydrometer reading of the juice or wine assumes that the increase in SG above 1.000 is all due to the sugar contained in the juice. While this is not completely accurate, for our purposes, we can make that assumption. In the fermentation process, yeast cells react with sugar molecules breaking each down into two molecules of alcohol and two of carbon dioxide. Full fermentation, that is all sugar is transformed into alcohol and carbon dioxide occurs at an SG of something less than 1.000 due to the alcohol now present in the wine. The more sugar you begin with, the further below 1.000 full fermentation occurs due to the higher alcohol content. It is difficult to precisely predict when full fermentation is reached, but in your case, I would say that it will be significantly below 1.000, perhaps as low as 0.990. This also means that an SG of 1.000 does not mean that all sugar is consumed by fermentation. Your task is to keep the fermentation going in your primary fermenter and later in your secondary fermenters. If the fermentation is in progress, there is no need to add additional yeast.

When you take your hydrometer reading, be sure that you have stirred the wine thorougly to get a consistent sample, i.e. one that is representative of the entire batch of wine. Get only liquid into your sample vessel, whether it is a "wine thief" or cylinder and take your reading. 

If fermentation stops (stuck fermentation) prior to reaching "dry" you will need to restart it. There are a number of steps to accomplish this and we can address that if and when it occurs.


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## robie (Sep 6, 2011)

I, too, am not familiar with the yeast you pitched. Check with the provider and make sure it can handle 16% to 16.25% alcohol. If it can't, you will be better off going ahead and pitching the EC-1118 right now. You already have enough yeast "starter" nutrient, so you won't need to add more when you add the EC-1118.

Now, because if fermentation stops prematurely, the lower point at which it stops, the harder it will be to get it going again. If it stops at or below an SG of about 1.002, it is nearly impossible to restart it. Because of this, if you already know your yeast can't handle the 16% alcohol, you need to apply the better yeast now. The EC-1118 likely will overpower your presently pitched yeast and get the job done. It is sort of the "Mack Truck" of wine yeasts.

Also, make sure your fermentation temperature stays within the temperature range of the yeast you use.


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## Rocky (Sep 6, 2011)

Rene, This is good advice from Robie. As I stated earlier, I am not aware of the alcohol tolerance of the yeast that you used. It may well be able to handle the alcohol, but we know that Lalvin EC-1118 will handle up to 18%, so I think it is a good idea to go ahead and use it. 

In the meantime, is there any update on the fermentation?


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## rene525d (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi All,

i checked the wine twice today, in the morning and evening. The wine is 'boiling' and i checked with the hydrometer and the levels are now down to .060. The strange thing is that the reading in the morning and the reading in the evening were exactly the same. I will check again tomorrow and if it is the same, i will add the lavlin yeast. I have 3x 5g packs and i think that is not enough for 150L of wine. At what reading on the hydrometer do you suggest that I transfer the wine to glass containers?


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## robie (Sep 6, 2011)

rene525d said:


> Hi All,
> 
> i checked the wine twice today, in the morning and evening. The wine is 'boiling' and i checked with the hydrometer and the levels are now down to .060. The strange thing is that the reading in the morning and the reading in the evening were exactly the same. I will check again tomorrow and if it is the same, i will add the lavlin yeast. I have 3x 5g packs and i think that is not enough for 150L of wine. At what reading on the hydrometer do you suggest that I transfer the wine to glass containers?



I assume you mean an SG of 1.060.

Regardless of whether or not the SG is falling, if your yeast can not tolerate about 16.25% alcohol without dying, you should move to the EC-1118 yeast.

Certainly, if the SG has not fallen by morning (it likely will fall a lot), add the EC-1118 as a yeast starter solution. As I already mentioned, you don't need anymore starter nutrient (energizer) at this time.

You have enough EC-1118 for about 70 liters. However, you can grow it by making a yeast starter. It will multiply rapidly in a starter, if you leave it in the starter about 4 hours at least. Put the yeast in a full cup of 104F water. Don't stir yet, just pour right on top of the water. Let the yeast begin to create their little "explosions" in the water.

(The below may seem a little overkill and it is not rocket science, but it pays to be safe.)

Using grape juice in the starter is better.

*If you have some grape juice handy:*
Once the fireworks start, add a tablespoon (tbs) of grape juice to the starter. Wait until the yeast start bubbling or foaming and add another tbs. Wait about 10 minutes and add another tbs and stir the starter very lightly. Wait about 20 minutes and add 2 tbs grape juice, stir one or two rounds. Wait 20 more minutes and and add 4 tbs; stir one or two rounds. Every 20 minutes, add another 4 tbs. 

*If you don't have any grape juice handy:*
Make 2 cups of sugar water that includes about a half cup of sugar in it. (Total volume should be about 2 cups.)
Follow same directions as if you had grape juice (above).

After about 3 or 4 hours, the temperature of the starter should be about that of your must. Slowly at first start adding your must into the starter's container (not the other way around) at about 2 tbs every 2 minutes for about 20 minutes. Next, add a half cup of the must into the starter. Wait about 10 minutes. Add a full cup of the must into the starter. Wait about 10 minutes. make sure the starter is still bubbling or foaming well, which indicates the yeast are very active.

By now your yeast should be acclimated to your must and the alcohol that is already present in it. If you don't do this, the sudden exposure of your yeast to the alcohol can shock and kill your limited supply of yeast. Yeast don't like to be added to wine, which already contains alcohol.

Now, you should have a nice, multiplied, healthy bunch of yeasts, which you can lightly stir into your fermenter. Just make sure the temperature of the starter and the must are within about 5 F of each other.


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## Rocky (Sep 6, 2011)

Rene, As I stated above there are a lot of steps necessary to overcome stuck fermentation. What Robie has outlined here is an excellent and reliable method. Before you go through all this though, were you able to find out the alcohol tolerance or toxicity level for the yeast that you used? If it is similar to EC-1118, i.e. approaching 18%, you should be all right.

Also, Robie used a number of American idioms, e.g. "fireworks" meaning a high level of action or activity, "rocket science" meaning something that is very complicated and "overkill" meaning more steps in the process than necessry, in his reply. Do you understand all of them and how they apply?

As far as your first racking to glass is concerned, I suggest an SG of about 1.020 for your wine. I assume you have grape skins in the fermenter and there are two ways to make use of them. You could squeeze the skins and pour the juice into the fermenter before filling the glass jugs or, the more traditional way, is to take the first run (first juice out of the fermenter) into segregated carboys and press all the skins for the last carboy. This latter way is more traditional in Italy and I imagine, given Malta's history, may be how it is done on your island.


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## rene525d (Sep 7, 2011)

By the morning the hydrometer is marking 1.050. That is down from 1.060 the previous day. Is the progress good or moving slow? I was thinking of moving the wine from the tank to the glass containers or is it still early?


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## robie (Sep 7, 2011)

rene525d said:


> By the morning the hydrometer is marking 1.050. That is down from 1.060 the previous day. Is the progress good or moving slow? I was thinking of moving the wine from the tank to the glass containers or is it still early?




Rene,
You still have not told us what the alcohol tolerance is for your yeast. If you can give us a little more information on the yeast, like the formal name and manufacturer and such, we can look it up.

1.050 is still a little too high to move from fermenter to glass. The wine still needs oxygen and to be stirred about twice a day until the SG gets down at or below about 1.020. At that point, if you previously pressed off the grape skins, you can move the juice (wine) to glass and add an air lock.

Sorry I haven't followed your progress well, but is the wine still mixed in with all the original grape skins or have you already pressed them off? If still on the skins, the skins and seeds will need to be pressed off just before you transfer to glass.


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## rene525d (Sep 9, 2011)

The Alcohol tolerance is 18% +. Yesterday evening i checked the wine and it was down to 1.010 on the hydrometer, and i decided to move it to the glass containers with an airlock, and alot of CO2 bubbles are escaping (15-20 / minute).

I also made the 'second wine' by adding 130 litres of water, 28kg of sugar and yeast and it is already boiling. I was told that at this stage, i should keep the mixture for a maximum of 2 nights, since the grape skins are already used and they will release a bad taste if left too long. Is this true or should I follow the hydrometer process as i did for the first wine?


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## rene525d (Sep 9, 2011)

Would you suggest that I use any campden tablets, Tartaric acid or pectolase for the wine that has been moved to the Glass containers?

I would also like your opinion on using Waxed corks vs non Waxes corks. Which is best?


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## robie (Sep 9, 2011)

rene525d said:


> Would you suggest that I use any campden tablets, Tartaric acid or pectolase for the wine that has been moved to the Glass containers?
> 
> I would also like your opinion on using Waxed corks vs non Waxes corks. Which is best?



The wine has just been moved to secondary (glass). Make sure the wine is sealed away from all oxygen by using an air lock. Let it set until all fermentation is complete, that's all you will need to do at this stage. Fermentation is considered finished when the SG has not changed for 3 days in a row and is down to at least .998. I would let the wine set this way for at least 5 days before you start checking the SG level, don't worry about whether it is bubbling or not.


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## Rocky (Sep 9, 2011)

Rene, 
When you made the "second wine," did you squeeze the skins firs or just drain the first wine out of the container? When we made "second wine" at home, we used to just take the free run (the wine that came out without pressing the skins) and then added the sugar and water back onto the unpressed skins. I have never heard that one can only keep the wine on the skins for two days, but, again, we did not press the skins. It may be a different process if you pressed the skins.


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## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

I guess I'm curious why you added water? It says you dissolved the sugar in 10 liters of water. This would have changed the whole equation. Normally for grapes, you don't add water. You could dissolve it in some of the grape juice.

Debbie


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## Rocky (Sep 19, 2011)

docanddeb said:


> I guess I'm curious why you added water? It says you dissolved the sugar in 10 liters of water. This would have changed the whole equation. Normally for grapes, you don't add water. You could dissolve it in some of the grape juice.
> 
> Debbie



Debbie, "second wine" is not a very high quality wine. The water is added to make up for the water that was in the original juice and the flavor comes from whatever is left in the skins. The sugar, of course, is for the alcohol. When we made "second wine" at home, we did not squeeze the skins, so there was a good bit of juice and flavor still in them. It was a wine we used for cooking, vinegar and "not so good" friends.


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## docanddeb (Sep 19, 2011)

Yes I understand "seconds".... unless you are talking about elderberries... the seconds are as good as the first batch.

Debbie


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## rene525d (Sep 20, 2011)

Some update on my progress... The 'first wine' (moved to glass container on 9th September) has really slowed down (boiling) and only 1 bubble/minute is escaping from the airlock, while the second wine (moved to glass container on 12th September) is still producing 2-3 bubbles/minute. Is this normal as a friend told me that they should last 3-4 weeks producing bubbles through the airlock. He advised me to either add some more yeast/sugar or else stir the wine in the glass containers to help the fermentation process continue. What are your opinions?


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## rene525d (Sep 21, 2011)

Another update. I checked with the hydrometer and both wines are under 1.000 sg (at .90) so fermentation is complete. I tasted the wine and the flavour is sour or acidic i am confused which. Is this bad or should i give it more time for the flavour to be better? Any options to make a sour wine better or should i just give it more time? By sour i do not mean a vinegar flavor.

On another note, at which stage in the wine process should i introduce tannisol (sulphur). Can i add it now?


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## robie (Sep 21, 2011)

Forget the bubbles! They mean very little. Go by your hydrometer! If the SG is below about 1.000 and it has not changed for 3 days in a row, it is finished fermenting; the sugar is all gone and any additional yeast would have nothing to ferment. In this case the bubbles are nothing but CO2 being expelled. You will need to degas the wine well to get rid of the CO2. Degas it before you start clearing.

Concerning your last post:
Your wine is still only a baby. At this stage it will be very tart (green) and undrinkable. 

It is like a fruit, such as a variety of apple that gets red when it is ready to eat; try eating it when it is still small and green and see what you get. Wine is no different, especially rich red wines. White wines come around much quicker but still taste green right out of the fermenter.

Let the wine clear and set for a few months, it will start to taste more like wine. The more time you give it, the better it will get. But of course any wine will eventually peak and start deteriorating, depending on the variety and aging conditions. Your wine is a long way from peaking.

Patience my friend, patience.


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## rene525d (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks Robie for your reply. I was just worried that my wine will remain sour


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