# To Rack or not to rack, that is...



## homer (Dec 2, 2010)

Wine is the Cabernet from Midwest's frozen grapes, directions are a little vague in regards to weather it should be racked before MLF. Rack or no rack? bk


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## djrockinsteve (Dec 2, 2010)

Do Not Rack. The lees in the primary actually help mlf. The lees actually help your yeast by providing micronutrients and other stuff. Make sure you keep your wine topped off during MLF to avoid vinegar producing organisims.

I know that your MLF culture will do best in a temp of 65 to 75 degree range and keep your ph above 3.0 Don't add and sulfite when your must finishes it's primary fermentation.

Hope this helps.


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## JohnT (Dec 2, 2010)

djrockinsteve said:


> Do Not Rack. The lees in the primary actually help mlf. The lees actually help your yeast by providing micronutrients and other stuff. Make sure you keep your wine topped off during MLF to avoid vinegar producing organisims.
> 
> I know that your MLF culture will do best in a temp of 65 to 75 degree range and keep your ph above 3.0 Don't add and sulfite when your must finishes it's primary fermentation.
> 
> Hope this helps.



DJ, 

I am afraid that this topic is where you and I part company. I have found that removal of dead yeast just as soon as possible is vital to the all over taste and mouth of the wine. The sooner the dead yeast is gone, the less you are likely to fall prey to all of those nasty "yeast breakdown" problems (mercaptans and hydrogensulfide). 

IMHO, The addition of oak prior to MLF will give you the same benefit as dead yeast while also improving the all over taste of the wine. 

johnT.


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## winemaker_3352 (Dec 2, 2010)

I am going to have to agree with John. I rack off as soon as fermentation is done to get the wine off the dead yeast cells and sediment.


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## ffemt128 (Dec 2, 2010)

I tend to transfer from primary, then do an initial racking after 2-3 weeks to remove heavy lees then will allow to settle out after that. I base my initial racking on sg readings usually opposed to timing.


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## djrockinsteve (Dec 2, 2010)

John, I have wondered about that because I know decomposition starts immediately and can ruin a wine. So I guess it's a double edge sword. Loss of nutrients to save the wine or leave the nutrients and harm the wine.

I suppose racking would take with it some needed things.


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## KSmith3011 (Dec 2, 2010)

I read the instructions from Midwest since I am at the same stage with the same wine. I found it to be pretty clear about racking. After Primary ferment rack to a carboy for three days. Rack this (after three days) off the heavy lee's into a new clean carboy. Then begin MLF and oaking, stir the carboy twice a week for six weeks.
I hope this helps, if you wanna follow the RULES.


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## homer (Dec 2, 2010)

KSmith said:


> "if you wanna follow the RULES".
> 
> I always follow the rules, except the ones I don't like. So do I rack or not? bk


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## Wade E (Dec 2, 2010)

I would rack off most of the heavy lees and also use a MLB nutrient.


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## KSmith3011 (Dec 2, 2010)

I followed the rules because i believe this is a quality product. I would assume they want the customer to be pleased with the results and offer the best instructions. When I do my cheap kits, I bend, break and create new rules all the time.


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## homer (Dec 3, 2010)

Wade two questions; what are the signs to look for during MLF and is MLB nutrient the same as a yeast nutrient (I know it can't be that simple)? 

KSmith, I just don't think the instructions are very clear at this step, I will call Midwest and ask their winemakers what they think. bk


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## homer (Dec 4, 2010)

I talked with Seth at Midwest (another $250 down), very knowledgeable guy, his suggestion was two week on the skins, press, re-rack in three days, add MLB and Nutrient at that time. Just like the instructions say, sort of kinda. 
When I told him mine had been sitting on the lees for a month he suggested rack and do the MLF. I also bought MLB some nutrient. bk


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## bryan (Dec 4, 2010)

I just bought a few pails of the 2007 Cab from Midwest. Is MLF necessary. I have never done MLF on any of my wines all of which have been made with fresh juice pails.

thanks,
bryan


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## Wade E (Dec 4, 2010)

Is it needed, no! Will it help tame some harsher acids that can sometimes be prevalent, yes. What it does it convert malic acid which can be harsh and turn it into lactic acid (think milk) which is a much smoother acid which will help round out your wine. Homer, it sounds like Seth has given you good direction and thats what I would have done or said.


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