# Trellis System Recommendations



## we5inelgr (Aug 16, 2014)

Hi all,

My nano backyard vineyard to be planted in about 3 weeks:


20 vines, most likely all in a single row.
 Petite Sirah & Cabernet Sauvignon (10 vines ea.). These are high vigor growth, right?
 East - West orientation (only option).
 Just north of the Lodi, CA AVA (i.e. not a cool climate, can get into 100's a number of days each summer).
 

From what I've read so far, it seems like I should rule out the Geneva Double Curtain due to the high summer temps, even though it's good for high vigor vines.

And, I should rule out something like the VSP system because it's not very good for high vigor.

What trellis system should I use?


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## GreginND (Aug 16, 2014)

These are high vigor? What kind of root stock are they on? Usually the root stock controls the vigor. I've been all over Sonoma and Livermore wine country today and these varietals look small to me. All on VSP.


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## we5inelgr (Aug 17, 2014)

Thanks for the reply!

My understanding about "vigor" is that a high vigor plant will have lots, and lots of leaf growth as opposed to less leaf growth. In otherwords, it's in reference to the leaves/vines/fruit and not just the fruit itself. Is that not the case?

Both are "own" rootstock. Mist Propagated Clippings from one of the clones at UC Davis (FPS06 for Petite and FPS02 for the Cab).

I've seen contradictory information that, for example, Petite Sirah (generally speaking) is High Vigor, Moderate to High Vigor and Moderate Vigor. Since it appears that most agree that PS fruit tends to sunburn, I'm thinking I need to stay away from a trellis system like VSP that tends to give more sun exposure.

Ideas?


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## GreginND (Aug 17, 2014)

Ok, if they are on their own rootstock and have their natural vigor that may be different. But, I think you could still do VSP without a problem. You may need to top off the plants when they reach the top. Or you could do a TWC and let the plants grow downward. I am more familiar with hybrid varieties that work well with TWC. I think the vinifera have an upright growth preference and it's harder to train to top wire cordon. I would probably train them to VSP and try to control vigor with hedging the tops. But perhaps someone with more experience could weigh in on this.


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## grapeman (Aug 17, 2014)

For those varieties I would check locally to see what others are using with the best results. Off hand one system I can think of that you might investigate beyond VSP would be Lyre.


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## we5inelgr (Aug 18, 2014)

Many thanks for the reply's, and information. Much appreciated.

It looks like I shouldn't rule out VSP. In fact, it might be beneficial in that I _might_ be able to add a 2nd row since VSP seems pretty narrow. My planting space is about 10 feet wide.

And if these two varietals do turn out to be high vigor, it's not like I've got 1,000 plants to keep pruned. So your right Greg...I could just trim the top's from the VSP system. Hmmmm.

Thanks guys!


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## GEM (Aug 18, 2014)

VSP will work well with those vines. You just need to have two sets of double catch wires to guide the shoots up thru. Gary


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


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## we5inelgr (Aug 22, 2014)

After doing a bit of reading and back and forth thinking, I'm going to go with a Quadrilateral VSP system:







The only thing is, I don't know if I should go with the full setup, or use a "modified" version using only 1/2 of the setup. Because my vines will be only 3' apart, I was thinking I will go with half of this design in that I will only have 2 fruiting canes pointing in one direction (instead of 4 fruiting canes pointing in both directions). That way, I can have ~3' cordon's pointing in one direction till the next plant, instead of cordon's in each direction that are ~1.5'. I'm not too worried about high vigor with the VSP system. If our vines do turn out to be vigorous, it won't be too big a chore to trim 24 plants. I'm leaning towards cane pruning instead of spur.

What is a good/typical cordon length for Cab Sav and PS "own rooted" varietals? Is 1.5 feet too short, if I were to go with the full setup above? Or, should I go with unidirection only (1/2 the setup above) and 3' cordons?


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## blumentopferde (Aug 27, 2014)

we5inelgr said:


> After doing a bit of reading and back and forth thinking, I'm going to go with a Quadrilateral VSP system:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't see any advantage in this system compared to a regular cordon. If your vines are vigorous your canopy will easily become too dense anyways. With that system you have double the denisty of leaves that you would have with a regular cordon. You'd probably have to do a lot of trimming and thinning to have a well ventilated canopy. Apart from that you could reach the same density of shoots in a regular cordon by just keeping the canes a bit longer.
I would go for a regular cordon, unless there is little disease pressure and little rainfall in your area. In the latter case you might give it a try...


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