# Casual observation



## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

Wow...
Along with trying to learn the techniques of wine and cider making, there are plans to try brewing some beer.
So, after learning my lesson about seeking expert advice, I visited a Brewing Forum.
Holy bunghole, Batman! Going from here, to there, was like leaving a nightclub and walking into a karaoke bar on a Saturday night!
You folks are really mellow, compared to that bunch of hops-hounds!


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## arcticsid (Nov 9, 2009)

O.P., thats because we already know! LOL

If you'd like to know more, please deposit another 25 cents in that little slot on the front of your computer!!

Troy


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

They're just plain rowdy over there...but they seem to enjoying themselves.


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## arcticsid (Nov 9, 2009)

yeah for now, wait till they run out of quarters!!


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## St Allie (Nov 9, 2009)

What's a hops hound?

I hope you are being complimentary..( we're nice here!)

Allie

O P? we have a beer forum here..just post in there..

both Wade and Smurfe are dedicated beer brewers.


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## arcticsid (Nov 9, 2009)

O.P. is a dedicated brewer, he meant the beer forum he went to was a bunch of braggortts and it was unfriendly. Not like us, as long as he continues to put the quarters in the appropriate slot I think we should treat him good. Someday we may need all his quarters.
.


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## Tom (Nov 9, 2009)

I also make Beer. Just added Raspberries to my Ras Wheat in the secondary.
Which site did you visit?


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

Nothing derogatory intended!
It was, as stated, that my _casual_ observation was that the two Forums had distinctly different "flavors", just like beer and wine do.


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## smurfe (Nov 9, 2009)

Many beer forums are ruled and frequented by juvenile punks or plain cranky dicks. I am a member of many and I have issue with many. Most are rude and if a newbie asks a question is to scream at them to do a SEARCH and they go back to their juvenile banter. This really gets under my skin. Most newbies do not know what terms to use to search and if everyone is just searching there is no VALUED contribution to the forum and forums that have no activity die.


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## cpfan (Nov 9, 2009)

I don't really consider myself a beer brewer. However, I have been making beer for 10 years or so. We definitely enjoy what is produced. I make it the simple way. Buy a "wort kit". It is basically like a wine kit. There is a bag of wort that you pour into a primary. Top up to 23 litres with water. Read instructions for any other additives, then sprinkle the yeast. No boiling, no muss, no fuss.

Tom, Wade, etc don't consider this to be real beer making, but the results are pretty good. I used to know an award winning scratch beer brewer. His younger brother made some beer from these kits, and he was quite impressed.

OP, I don't know where Rocky Mountain Shangri-La is, so I am assuming Lake Louise. Brands are Spagnols Brewhouse, Magnotta Festa Brew, Vineco Brewers Spring, and Winexpert Barons. There is at least one more but I haven't seen it in a while, and can't remember the name. There used to be one out of Saskatoon SK (Paddockwood), but I don't think they do kits any more.

Steve


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

smurfe said:


> Many beer forums are ruled and frequented by juvenile punks or plain cranky dicks. I am a member of many and I have issue with many. Most are rude and if a newbie asks a question is to scream at them to do a SEARCH and they go back to their juvenile banter. This really gets under my skin. Most newbies do not know what terms to use to search and if everyone is just searching there is no VALUED contribution to the forum and forums that have no activity die.


Smurfe, being a new comer, I didn't want to be that blunt. 
Your observations are just what I noticed. The first thing I noticed on the particular forum I visited was that new visitors were immediately admonished to "search a topic before you ask a stupid question for the 10th time." When I did that, and found a thread on the topic I wanted, most of the replies were off-topic, to say the least.


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

cpfan said:


> ...
> Tom, Wade, etc don't consider this to be real beer making, but the results are pretty good. I used to know an award winning scratch beer brewer. His younger brother made some beer from these kits, and he was quite impressed.
> ...
> Steve


This is why I'm trying to get educated about brewing, before jumping in. On one hand, I go to FVW and find a brewing kit with hydrometer, siphon tubes, and 5 gallon buckets. On the other hand, there are kits that come with a keg and plastic bottles and say, "mix it together and drink in 2 weeks." There seems to be a lot of middle ground.

I'm on the US side, about 60 miles from Lake Louise, as the raven flies. Good call on the geography!


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## non-grapenut (Nov 9, 2009)

I make wine becuz it's expensive at the store...beer is cheap (unless you are looking for a hopsy beer like Moosehead..)...my experience is that when I made beer, it made me into a beer snob. Everything else tasted like tap water.


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## cpfan (Nov 9, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> I'm on the US side, about 60 miles from Lake Louise, as the raven flies. Good call on the geography!


Without using any maps...Essex MT? Izaak Walton Inn. That's my version of Rocky Mountain Shangri-La on the US side.

Steve


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

cpfan said:


> Without using any maps...Essex MT? Izaak Walton Inn. That's my version of Rocky Mountain Shangri-La on the US side.
> 
> Steve


Close enough, Steve. I don't get any more specific than that in open posts.
Check out my Album.


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## arcticsid (Nov 9, 2009)

I was guessing Montana myself Steve. If he don't give us the $10 he owes us, I thnk we should track him dowm!!LOL
Troy


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## cpfan (Nov 9, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> Check out my Album.


Great pics. Love the rainbow.

Steve


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## St Allie (Nov 9, 2009)

I love the traffic control photo Steve,

If only deer just wandered through my front yard like that..that's amazing.

Allie


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

If you plan on having an outdoor garden around here, the first task is to put up a 10 foot fence around it.


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## Midwest Vintner (Nov 9, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> If you plan on having an outdoor garden around here, the first task is to put up a 10 foot fence around it.



10 ft? i thought it was 12? don't forget to top it with barb wire AND put some bird netting over the whole thing. n oh, and you also have to donate 10% of the first 5 years fruit to the closest member with over 100 posts during that time. lol

our garden is 35 ft x 80 ft and we plan on putting some fruit trees around the property (4 acres). nothing goes near the garden or becomes it too becomes food.


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## St Allie (Nov 9, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> If you plan on having an outdoor garden around here, the first task is to put up a 10 foot fence around it.



Wouldn't a glasshouse be worth building then?

It'd last you 30-40 years.. with regular maintenance?

Allie


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

Midwest Vintner said:


> 10 ft? i thought it was 12? don't forget to top it with barb wire AND put some bird netting over the whole thing. n oh, and you also have to donate 10% of the first 5 years fruit to the closest member with over 100 posts during that time. lol
> 
> our garden is 35 ft x 80 ft and we plan on putting some fruit trees around the property (4 acres). nothing goes near the garden or becomes it too becomes food.


Hahaha! Yeah, but around here, our game warden frowns on shooting a deer in a fight over a head of cabbage.


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 9, 2009)

St Allie said:


> Wouldn't a glasshouse be worth building then?
> 
> It'd last you 30-40 years.. with regular maintenance?
> 
> Allie


I built an 11' x 20' greenhouse out of spare parts and nursery-grade plastic. It's life span in this climate is about 5 years, but it only cost $300.


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## Wade E (Nov 9, 2009)

So what kind of beer are you looking to brew and far do you want to take it. I make extract kits and all grain as do a few of us here. It depends on how much time I have on my hands and how my back feels when I do have the time. Im gtting low on beer and my back is bad right now so i thought it was a perfect time to do an extract kit. I just ordered a HopNog Brewers' Best kits to satisfy my thirsty corny keg. I also was just given 2 more corny kegs from a friend so now I have 6 of these.


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## Midwest Vintner (Nov 9, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> Hahaha! Yeah, but around here, our game warden frowns on shooting a deer in a fight over a head of cabbage.



just tell him that the deer threatened you and made degrading remarks about your mother


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## Tom (Nov 9, 2009)

Wade E said:


> So what kind of beer are you looking to brew and far do you want to take it. I make extract kits and all grain as do a few of us here. It depends on how much time I have on my hands and how my back feels when I do have the time. Im gtting low on beer and my back is bad right now so i thought it was a perfect time to do an extract kit. I just ordered a HopNog Brewers' Best kits to satisfy my thirsty corny keg. I also was just given 2 more corny kegs from a friend so now I have 6 of these.



Currently I have a Raspberry Wheat all grain fermenting. I put 3 1/2#'s of Raspberry in a 5 gallon batch


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

Wade E said:


> So what kind of beer are you looking to brew and far do you want to take it. I make extract kits and all grain as do a few of us here. It depends on how much time I have on my hands and how my back feels when I do have the time.


Well, since I'm getting into this for someone else, they like Ale. Henry's Blue Boar, to be exact. Can a wort kit actually allow you to "copy" most of the qualities of a specific beer? 
I think Steve laid out the various options pretty well in another thread, and it sounds like the kit, using my existing equipment, is the way to go.


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## arcticsid (Nov 10, 2009)

I have a couple corny friends and we are al wondering what a game warden is!


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

arcticsid said:


> I have a couple corny friends and we are al wondering what a game warden is!


You been into the mooseberry wine...again?


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## Tom (Nov 10, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> Well, since I'm getting into this for someone else, they like Ale. Henry's Blue Boar, to be exact. Can a wort kit actually allow you to "copy" most of the qualities of a specific beer?
> I think Steve laid out the various options pretty well in another thread, and it sounds like the kit, using my existing equipment, is the way to go.



I would find that breweries home page. There you may find out what hops and yeast they use. Finding this out you can get close to the beer profile (clone).


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## cpfan (Nov 10, 2009)

OP, in general a kit will not clone a specific beer. I presume that Henry's Blue Boar ale is actually Henry Weinhard's Blue Boar Pale ale. You could start with a Brewhouse Pale Ale kit. If it's a success and you wish to continue with more equipment, Tom or somebody should be able to point you to a clone database.

Steve


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

Tom said:


> I would find that breweries home page. There you may find out what hops and yeast they use. Finding this out you can get close to the beer profile (clone).


Makes sense, but I don't _plan_ on getting into scratch grain beer. If SWMBO is happy with the taste, and I can make it for less that $3.00/qt, it'll be worth the FWIF.
Any recommendations on a source for a wort kit?


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

cpfan said:


> OP, in general a kit will not clone a specific beer. I presume that Henry's Blue Boar ale is actually Henry Weinhard's Blue Boar Pale ale. You could start with a Brewhouse Pale Ale kit. If it's a success and you wish to continue with more equipment, Tom or somebody should be able to point you to a clone database.
> 
> Steve


Perfect, Steve! Can you recommend a vendor?


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## cpfan (Nov 10, 2009)

OP:

In Montana...don't know any.
Mail order in the US...sorry have no experience.
In Alberta...no.
In Ontario...yes, but not much good to you.

Any Spagnols retailer should be able to get the kit for you. But many in Ontario refuse to handle beer kits. And no I don't know why not, except that they don't want my business (so they don't get it).

You can look at http://www.thebrewhouse.com/ but their retailer page showed nada for Montana.

Steve


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

cpfan said:


> OP:
> 
> In Montana...don't know any.
> Mail order in the US...sorry have no experience.
> ...


I have absolutely no problem with mail order (via the web), but I've check 2 and they don't have "wort kits", only mini-mash, extract, and whole grain kits. I'll check out thebrewhouse. I need to start making a list of who I've visited.


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## St Allie (Nov 10, 2009)

save all the websites you visit to your favourites folder.. it'll save you having to google them each time..


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

St Allie said:


> save all the websites you visit to your favourites folder.. it'll save you having to google them each time..


I have separate folders for wine and beer. But with an attention span of a flea, I have to write down and delete those that don't have what I'm looking for.


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## arcticsid (Nov 10, 2009)

I have a folder called Wine Making Stuff", it is devided into other folders, "recipes", "links for supplies", "PDF Books", etc.

If you're gonna be a winemaker, even just a hobbyist, trust me, start a folder like this. You will always want to refernce something and by keeping this info organized could very well save you frustration later.


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

arcticsid said:


> I have a folder called Wine Making Stuff", it is devided into other folders, "recipes", "links for supplies", "PDF Books", etc.
> 
> If you're gonna be a winemaker, even just a hobbyist, trust me, start a folder like this. You will always want to refernce something and by keeping this info organized could very well save you frustration later.


Right on! Trust me, by most standards, I'm totally anal about organizing my files. I used to optimize folks computers for them as a side job. I ran into people who saved EVERYTHING to the root directory! :<


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## arcticsid (Nov 10, 2009)

I too have earned some extra beer money by doing the same thing. People need to keep their computers organized, defragged, updated, etc.

If you wanna be on, or own a computer, PLEASE learn a little about them. The system I am running now I got from the dump, after I was able to get into the HD, it was obvious someone had "junked" it up and got frustrated and tossed it. It is the best computer I have ever had.

I have never fired up an airplane until I was sure it was ready to go. And I lerned a little bit about it so I understood how it worked.

As far as I am concerned, if you don't want to practice "general computer maintanence" don't call me crying. I WILL charge you.

I would, however, be happy to help you keep your computer running as good as possible. No charge, as long as you are willing to learn.

Troy


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

My ex got a computer from a friend for $200. It was an HP, 1.7GHz, 80 Gb HD, running WinXP-Home. She didn't like it. Thought it was a piece of junk, even though she said "it was fine in the beginning". I got in to clean it up and found it has NEVER been defragged in the 3 years she owned it, System Restore was turned off, there was no anti-anything software installed...even Windows firewall was shut down.
The thing purrs like a kitten with a full tummy, now. 
(P.S. I got rid of 23 Gb of "junk", 500 registry entries, and that doesn't even count the old programs/games that were uninstalled.)


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## smurfe (Nov 10, 2009)

You can clone a beer with extract kits but I doubt you will be able to with the wort in bag kits. Most extract recipes use malt extract, steeping grains, a particular hop(s) and specific yeast. It is a whole lot easier than it sounds. 

Many online vendors such as Midwest, Norther Brewer, and More Beer have clone kits although I doubt they have you particular beer. What you do there if that is a local beer for you is either do a search to see if you can find a recipe or find a local brewer who has cloned it. 

You can also just call, visit, or email the brewery if it is local for you. You will be suprised that many brewers will actually give you their recipe. The Hop bill, yeast strain, and water profile are the most important factors in duplicating a recipe. Now to get in the range is easy but you need to know what hops they use and strain of yeast


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## Old Philosopher (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks, Surfe. More Beer has an "American Pale Ale" that they say is comparable to "domestic ales". They also say it's kinda limp, but that's their opinion, and they're comparing it to stout ales. The kit's cheap, $20 and the yeast they recommend for it is only $3.


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