# Jack Keller's cherry recipe



## x_diver (Jul 20, 2015)

Wow, fresh cherries are cheap this year! $0.79 per pound! So I bought 56lbs. I looked on Jack Keller's site for a recipe. Does the weight of the cherries in these recipes assume that they have no pits?

I did not pit the cherries before I froze them. On average, what does a pound of cherries weight with and without the pits?


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## dorfie (Jul 21, 2015)

diver, while i don't have any info about the weight difference between pitted and un-pitted, i would think that you would want to pit them if you could. leaving the pits in can cause some bitterness to come through to the wine, at least in my experience. that being said, i have left the pits in and noticed some bitterness, that then faded away with some ageing, so no harm no foul. 

how many gallons of wine are you planning on making? with 56 lbs you could make some very nice bodied wine! 
i have stopped using recipes so much and more test for acid and adjust accordingly, and then add tannin to taste.
good luck! cherry wine is one of my favorite!


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## x_diver (Jul 21, 2015)

I already froze them with pits - but no stems. My plan is to put them into paint bags, sprinkle with pectic enzyme, and thaw in a bucket. When they are totally thawed, I'll pull out the bags and make wine from the juice.

But this will be pure juice. Every recipe I see calls for adding water. Anyone have any thoughts on water addition?


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## salcoco (Jul 21, 2015)

water addition should be based on acid content of juice. if high acid add water to reduce level.


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## x_diver (Jul 25, 2015)

Wow, now I know why they were so cheap. The Ph of the pure juice is 3.98. I suppose that I'm just going to add acid and no water. Any other advice?


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## dorfie (Jul 25, 2015)

I don't measure in Ph, so I'm not sure about your acid. Red wine has a Ph between 2.9 and 3.9 so I guess your Ph is a little high.
I measure acid in TA (total acid, or tartric acid) and I think I shoot for around a .65 TA for my cherry wine. 
Why does that make them cheap?


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## x_diver (Jul 25, 2015)

I have made cherry wine in the past with 6lbs of frozen cherries and water to 1 gallon. I seem to remember not having to add much acid at all doing it this way. I'm going to have to add a lot of acid to get this juice to a PH of about 3.33. And if I add water, I'll have to add even more acid.


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## dorfie (Jul 25, 2015)

I don't think you would want to add any water just for that reason. It's pretty strange that your Ph is so high, what made you decide to do 3.33 for your target?


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## x_diver (Jul 25, 2015)

I've done cherry from homewinery.com concentrate and this is where my wife and I like it. Thanks for all your help.


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## domaso (Aug 13, 2015)

I'm making Jack Keller's cherry wine today. This recipe to be exact:



> *Cherry Wine [Dry] (3)*
> 
> 8 lbs morello cherries
> 2-1/2 lbs sugar
> ...



As you can see it says "crush the cherries without breaking any stones" so I assume the weight of the cherries is with pits in the recipe.

I personally just crushed with my hands (I only have 15 pounds). This is my first cherry wine, but I've talked with one winemaker and he said leaving the stones is the key thing to the taste of the cherry wine, the trick is you have to be really careful when straining the must - not to overpress the stones - you could make the wine undrinkeable! He said, the only few times he had to dump wine in his career, it was cherry wine.
So, to be on the safe side, I'm just going to hand press them moderately through a cheesecloth.


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## domaso (Aug 13, 2015)

I wonder if adding tannin is really necessary? I'm thinking – the stones must have tannin in them, don't they?
Also - I'm going to add medium toasted French oak chips – shouldn't they help with tannin?

If the tannin is really a must - can I use something like strong black tea? (I don't have tannin powder)


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## dorfie (Aug 13, 2015)

domaso said:


> I wonder if adding tannin is really necessary? I'm thinking – the stones must have tannin in them, don't they?
> Also - I'm going to add medium toasted French oak chips – shouldn't they help with tannin?
> 
> If the tannin is really a must - can I use something like strong black tea? (I don't have tannin powder)


 
I mean i have heard of using tea, but I'm not sure how well it worked, or how it changed the profile of the wine. Who knows! maybe it made it better! 
the French Chips should help with added tannins, but the tannin added during the primary ferment are mostly "sacrificial tannin" meaning that they are consumed during fermentation. some of them do make it through to the wine however.
Oak (i believe) is more of a "cellar-ing tannin" one to add flavor and stability for storage. I may be wrong on that though. 
you could add some during your primary ferment, or you could add raisins or (if you have) grape skins. they would add some nice tannins. 
Or! if you have access to chokecherries those have a nice tannin, and in my opinion make an excellent red wine!
I would not leave the tannin out though, it's the thing that builds body and structure to your wine.


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## domaso (Aug 13, 2015)

I think I'm going to add raisins. Could anyone advise how much is needed? My must looks like this: 15 lbs pretty sour cherries, 4.5 lbs sugar, 1.5 gallon water).


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## domaso (Aug 13, 2015)

Here's what I found about using black tea (source, last line):



> *Tip:* Regular black tea can be used to add tannins to wine. Use 1/2 teaspoon per half-gallon.



The problem is – it does not say if it's 1/2 teaspoon of dry tea herbs or 1/2 teaspoon of brewed liquid tea... (1/2 liquid tea sure doesn't seem logical, I think that would bee way too weak, but who knows...)


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## domaso (Aug 13, 2015)

I've used black tea after all. I brewed a big mug (350 ml) with 3 teaspoons of loose leaf black tea, steeped for 20 minutes and poured into 3 gallons of wine must. I dumped the tea along with all the loose leafs (I will strain along with cherry pulp after primary fermentation is done). I've found these proportions on another forum - one winemaker claimed to be using this method and he says it works for him. So I hope it works for me too, I guess it's better than not adding tannin at all..


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## gratus_fermentatio (Aug 19, 2015)

domaso said:


> I wonder if adding tannin is really necessary? I'm thinking – the stones must have tannin in them, don't they?
> Also - I'm going to add medium toasted French oak chips – shouldn't they help with tannin?
> 
> If the tannin is really a must - can I use something like strong black tea? (I don't have tannin powder)



The reason you don't want to break the pits is that the kernel inside a cherry pit contains a cyanide-like compound called amygdalin. As to the tannin content of the pits, I have no idea, but it would be safer to add tannin from another source. Depending on how much tannin is needed, you could use strong black tea, but I think you'd have to use a lot of it to get the results you want. You can add tannin powder anytime, no need to rush to the LHBS for it.
Regards, GF.


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