# 5 gallon Water Bottles



## jbullard1

Are the 5 gallon plastic water bottles used in office coolers of any use as primaries or secondaries
I found some for $10 ea


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## Sacalait

I've been using them as secondary fermenters for years with no adverse effects.


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## cpfan

This is one of the most asked questions (about carboys anyway) on the various forums.

Many use them. Many won't. Some use for short term, others have used for longer term.

I won't use them. That's "Won't" not "DON'T". Plastics are known to leach chemicals. Water bottles are designed to hold water and presumably don't leach into water. Will they leach into alcohol? I won't take the chance.

I have used plastic carboys, but those are designed for making wine and/or beer. The commonest brand these days is Better Bottle.

BTW, I primarily make kits, so need either 3 US gallon or 6 gallon carboys. These are 5 US gallons.

Steve


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## jbullard1

Now this is the kind of information I am looking for
Honest and heart felt opinions 

As I stand now I have 1 for and 1 against 

So What is your opinion??


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## arcticsid

Like Steve said, a very discussed question. I asked iit myself. I am only a 2 batch rookie and I made both using a plastic (cooler carboy) as my primary. But, I made both batches with frozen juice concentrate, if you were to use fresh fruit, you would need to be able to access the "cap" to press under the liquid each day, pretty hard in a carboy. Most seem to feel a pail type container is better for the primary. I will however respect the opinion of the senior members on here and try to stick with glass or use a type of plastic specifically designed for beer/wine making. One of the first instructions I ever came across about wine making suggested if you are going to use plastic, look for the # 1 or 2 in the triangle(the recycle code) on the container, and specifically said DO NOT use plastic with the 7 designation, and that is exactly what my water cooler carboy is. I'm still pretty new also and don't feel my opinion on this weighs in too heavy, but I would suggest searching this forum on this subject there is actually several discussions/opinions regarding using plastic.
Troy


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## jbullard1

The ones I am looking at are tinted blue and have a "1" in the triangle


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## Wade E

Ive heard about the chemicals leaching and cant say they do or dont. I myself dont like them for 3nt reasons. 
1) you ca vacuum degas.
2) try and pick up a full 1, the bottle squishes in and wine shoots up through the airlock, then when you release pressure(and it dont take much at all) the airlock sucks back in everything that was in there!
3) they leech flavor, my friend had used 1 for 2 months with the extra from a 6 gallon kit in a 1 gallon Carlo Rossi bottle and there was abig difference, both of us tasted the plastic in the wine. Maybe that would go back away over time I dont know as he has moved to North Carolina 4 months ago and hasnt contacted me as Id really like to know the answer to this as Ive seen this question on all forums at least once a month! #2 and 3 are the #'s you want to see in thetriangle of any plastic vessel you use to make wine


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## cpfan

jbullard1 said:


> The ones I am looking at are tinted blue and have a "1" in the triangle


Doesn't matter to me, still a water bottle not a wine bottle.



Wade E said:


> #2 and 3 are the #'s you want to see in thetriangle of any plastic vessel you use to make wine


Better Bottles are #1.

And this message will probbaly be asked every month, with no definitive answr, for the rest of my life.

Steve


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## jbullard1

cpfan said:


> Doesn't matter to me, still a water bottle not a wine bottle.
> 
> 
> Better Bottles are #1.
> 
> And this message will probbaly be asked every month, with no definitive answr, for the rest of my life.
> 
> Steve




Oops! Sorry to bother

I withdraw the question and Thank You


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## Luc

I'll keep feeding the discussion 

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2008/12/sinterklaaswijn-santa-claus-wine.html

I use these kind of water bottles all the time.

Luc


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## Wine4Me

I use the water bottle.. Mainly because "my lesser half" can get then FREE!!!!


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## Sacalait

I believe it's all a lot of B.S.! To my knowlege there has never been any *proof* of adverse effects from using the plastic water bottles verified by chemical analysis. I challenge those that continue to downplay their use to produce scientific studies that discredit their use.


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## Wade E

I believe they are permeable by air over time!


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## Manimal

I've heard the same about the air permeability. I think they're fine for very short term storage, and have even fermented small quantities of experimental wines in food grade plastic containers with no adverse effects, but I use them as a last resort and only for short periods. I would personally rather not risk losing a batch for something so preventable. Glass carboys aren't that expensive and if you have difficulty moving them when full, you can do some pre-planning as to where you will need them to be when you rack and fill them in place. Or you could invest in a small, relatively inexpensive winch lift.


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## Wade E

Or vacuuum rack!


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## Conquistadude

We you've got the yes's and the no's. now here is a great reason for yes. You have them available to you right now. they are cheap to you, it allows you to save for the more expensive glass carboys, and when you do get the glass you will have the plastic as a backup. even if you prefer not to us them, I think it is still a good idea to have them, because you never know. But that is just my opinion


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## arcticsid

This entire discussions still worries me, I'd hate to get sick or adversley screw up my wine. But my first 2 batches I used a plastic jug for the primary, and they both went into the secondary (glass containers within 2 week) so only time will tell. I at this point am willing to take my chances witrh the water cooler jug, only for juice, something with whole fruit simply wouldn't work, couldn't push down the cap. For right now all I have is 2 cooler jugs to use as my primaries, at least until someone proves to me they have grown a third ear because they used plastic.


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## Conquistadude

I would go as far as saying the 99% of the good people here use plastic primary. I do. Primary is not the worry. What they are advising is the use of plastic carboys for long term and bulk aging. if you are really worried, the best thing would be to call the people that make the bottles and ask them what the effect long term exposure of alcohol up to 15% ABV (20% on the safe side) would do


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## moose-1110

I have a 3 gallon water bottle that I am using for the first time, so I will find out in another 6 months if it works. The owner of the store I bought it from said he has sold many of these without any problems. I did have to buy a different bung from him so it would fit (He called it a universal bung). Another reason I went with this (besides cost) is that it is food grade plastic (so your wine shouldn't absorb any off flavors). Unfortunaltly I will have to see in 3 to 6 months


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## arcticsid

I'll be waiting with you Moose, just mixed a new batch tonight in my blue "#7" water cooler jug. Still apprehensive on anything long term in one, but feel pretty safe for the primary. This will be a topic for discussion for years to come, well at least for the next 6 mos or so.LOL
take Care
troy


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## gregmeetsworld

Ive worked with plastics , and used to work for a plastic company. It really depends on how the plastic jugs are made. I could get into a highly technical answer about the composition about plastic, but this is a wine making forum..... and i wouldnt want to bore you.


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## Wade E

If you are talking about a Better Bottle thats a different story then standard water bottle. They are designed better and are not air permeable.


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## arcticsid

Tell us what you know Greg, this has been an ongoing discussion/dispute for a while. We really want to know.
Troy


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## Conquistadude

Yeah spill it because Knowledge is Power


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVKN_hwf890&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVKN_hwf890&feature=related[/ame]

See


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## arcticsid

Yeah Greg, whatever Con said !!!!, If you don't share what you know we will be dissappointed. I don't remeber who, but one of the members pointed out there has never been any scientific proof on the relationship between certain types of plastics and it's exposure to fermenting alcohol. Doesn't mean I'll "buy" any of it, but it is a long running discussions in these wine making forums. I personally was wondering if I could "bottle" my wine in screw top liquor containers for????? X months. We would all be curious to know. Please advise.
Troy
(P.S.) My buddy owns a huge bar here and is saving me al lhis bottles this weekend, so I am not to concerned about that stage, but I wish someone with a qualified knowledge of plastics would fill us in.


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## jbullard1

I an no expert on plastic or wine But my neighbor that got me started in this gave me some wine he made in 1994. Some was in glass and some in plastic brown 1.5 liter whiskey bottles. I could not tell any difference in taste


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## gregmeetsworld

I am at work right now, but I will post a longer responce tonight. But one quick thing is "the better bottle" is specially forumlated and manufactured for wine making. So my comment above does not have anything to do with it.


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## cpfan

jbullard1 said:


> I an no expert on plastic or wine But my neighbor that got me started in this gave me some wine he made in 1994. Some was in glass and some in plastic brown 1.5 liter whiskey bottles. I could not tell any difference in taste


My main point about plastic water bottles is that they are NOT designed to hold alcohol. Better Bottles and whiskey bottles ARE designed to hold alcohol. The plastic primaries that I use are designed for wine & beer making. (I don't use or recommend Rubbermaid Big Brutes.)

There are possibly millions of plastics out there. I strongly feel that you should not use them for a use that they were not intended for. I know that many winemakers do not agree with me. That is their choice.

Greg: I am NOT interested in the chemistry of plastics. But perhaps you can point out a link to somewhere that will cover Plastics 101 for those that are interested.

Steve


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## jbullard1

Not trying to say anyone should use anything.
just pointing out an interesting observation I made.


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## gregmeetsworld

Since I am new I cannot post a link. Google "mat web" , its a great website to reference for data on plastics. Water jugs do have an absorption rate; therefore it will leave some "flavor" in the wine. It does not pose a health risk or anything so if you don’t mind the taste, it’s not an issue. Some company’s treat the inside of the bottle to help keep this taste to a minimum, while other company’s just care about making as many as they can. As CPFan says there are millions of plastics out there and each company uses there own recipe to make the plastic. While they might classify it as one type of plastic, there still are tons of variables while making it. If I end up sending anything to the lab for work or school, I will see if I can find a jug to take a sample of. 

Anyhow I will try to keep my mouth shut from now on to avoid a dispute. On a side note today my boss has me working on a new type foam inserts for shipping wine bottles. Its pretty cool stuff!


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## cpfan

Interesting site Greg. I did a search for "PET" on the site and got 540 hits. As I said I'm not interested in the chemistry, but from the hit titles it looks like PET can be carbon reinforced, glass reinforced, and/or mineral reinforced.

"wine PET" only got 3 hits.

My Dad (if he were still alive) would be fascinated by this.


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## gregmeetsworld

The scary part about that site is, there may be 540 "types" of pet, but due to the chemical composition ranges, there are millions of variations due to the maker. 

On a side not
This is a great example to use when you want to make your own equipment. Alot of people want to make equipment out of stainless steel, but there are thousands of variations, so make sure its food safe.


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## arcticsid

You can post a link in here Greg, whether your new or not. If the www is in front of it it'll show on your post.


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## gregmeetsworld

Since i have less than 10 posts , it wont let me post it.


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## cpfan

While it might be nice to see the link, I think anybody who is interested will be able to use Google "mat web" as Greg suggested. Golly even I figured it out.

Greg is right. I believe that is a restriction to "slow down" the idiot spammers. Unfortunately, it occasionally interferes in a legit post. Greg will just have to make a few more posts.

Steve


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## jbullard1

gregmeetsworld said:


> Since i have less than 10 posts , it wont let me post it.



You are only 3 away
Pick a topic and post +1 and enter it and repeat until you have 10


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## gregmeetsworld

www.matweb.com


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## Conquistadude

How would we know if it is the one we might be looking at.


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## cpfan

Conquistadude said:


> How would we know if it is the one we might be looking at.


Probably you don't.


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## Conquistadude

cpfan said:


> Probably you don't.




touché good man


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## petes

I've around 25 of these I use for my wines, in secondary and bulk ageing roles. Reason is simply cost, availability and ease of transport.
Reading various forums on the subject, there are many many more winemakers around the world who do the same and probably just as many again who do but won't admit.
Two absolute no-nos are don't put boiling water in them and keep the AV at below 20%.


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## Conquistadude

20%...that's some nice Rocket Wine there. that wine that is sure to Fly you to the moon, Let you play among the stars.


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## mjdtexan

Conquistadude said:


> Yeah spill it because Knowledge is Power
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVKN_hwf890&feature=related
> 
> See



Shheessh, did you have to remind me how old I am? I am 40 and I remember that from when I was a kid

I asked the question about the water bottles too. I still dunno the right answer. I am going to use the glass though because of the fact that I dunno. Better safe than sorry. It does appear that members here are using them with success. I have about 10, more or less, on hand at all times because I use that service here at the house. The Ozarka man says I can keep all of them I want. I may keep a couple for "in case" but I am going to make wine in the glass.


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## Manimal

It's always nice to have an assortment of different food grade containers available. I don't ferment or store my wine in the plastic water jugs, but I keep mine kicking around just in case I need them for short term use or for storing wine for a few minutes while I clean a carboy, etc. I guess I'm a bit of a pack-rat that way... "This MIGHT come in handy for winemaking... better keep it."


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## mjdtexan

cpfan said:


> BTW, I primarily make kits, so need either 3 US gallon or 6 gallon carboys. These are 5 US gallons.
> 
> Steve



I wonder ifin this is a conspiracy by the wine kit makers and the carboy companies to keep us buying 3 & 6 gallon carboys instead of using the 5 gallon water cooler jugs?


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## GretchenR

This is a bit off topic, but I just came by some five-gallon GLASS water bottles, from the old days when bottled water came in glass (and all delivery people had scars on the backs of their shoulders from bottles breaking coming off the truck). Are they safe to use for long-term aging? I'm concerned about lead content or whatever. The bottles are marked Arizona Bottled Water Co, with the word "sparkling" in the center.


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## mikewatkins727

If these bottles once contained water, I doubt they are a hazard for lead. I say this since your say they are marked _*Arizona Bottled Water Co.*_ and presumably contained water.


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## winemanden

Luc said:


> I'll keep feeding the discussion
> 
> Sinterklaaswijn / Santa Claus wine
> 
> I use these kind of water bottles all the time.
> 
> Luc


Luc, that brings back memories for me. When I first started making wine, I used Bakers yeast, no hydrometer, and Marmite was the only nutrient available in UK after WW2. My landlady's mother first showed me how to make wine. When the village baker used to deliver his bread, she used to say to him "Bring me a couple of ounces of yeast when you come tomorrow, I'm going to make some wine.". She used a very big pottery basin as her brewing vessel, covered over with a cloth and a board on top. What she made was real Country wine, wonderful hangover stuff.

Thanks for the memories Luc


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## winemanden

gregmeetsworld said:


> The scary part about that site is, there may be 540 "types" of pet, but due to the chemical composition ranges, there are millions of variations due to the maker.
> 
> On a side not
> This is a great example to use when you want to make your own equipment. Alot of people want to make equipment out of stainless steel, but there are thousands of variations, so make sure its food safe.


You're right about all stainless steel not being equal. Where I used to work, a by product was superfine Aluminium dust -(very explosive stuff)- which we used to store in stainless drums. I did think about borrowing one (lol) to use as a primary vessel until I noticed small rust spots. I had to resort to plan B, buy one!


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## Jonboy6692.ja

jbullard1 said:


> Are the 5 gallon plastic water bottles used in office coolers of any use as primaries or secondaries
> I found some for $10 ea


I use a #2 bottle ( bottom)
HDPE (High density poleythelene)


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