# Anybody with Loquat wine experience ?



## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 15, 2022)

In another month or so I should have a nice crop of loquats.
ihave a couple of questions / concerns.

sliced loquats tend to brown easily - will that affect wine color ? How do I avoid it ? 
since loquats are not a strong flavored fruit,how much should I use for a gallon?
And finally, I have some bananas in the freezer. Been there a while. It’s nice and brown. 
should I mix that in with the loquats ? yes or no and why or why not. Thanks guys. Im


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## CortneyD (Feb 15, 2022)

I only have advice for the 1st question, lemon juice is usually used to stop browning. Could you sub in lemon juice for the acid blend to minimize oxidation to the fruit? I'd recommend tossing the fruit in the lemon juice to coat them well and then move on to the next steps. Otherwise I would assumed that as they oxidize you'd end up more in the tan/brown end of the color spectrum.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 15, 2022)

CortneyD said:


> I only have advice for the 1st question, lemon juice is usually used to stop browning. Could you sub in lemon juice for the acid blend to minimize oxidation to the fruit? I'd recommend tossing the fruit in the lemon juice to coat them well and then move on to the next steps. Otherwise I would assumed that as they oxidize you'd end up more in the tan/brown end of the color spectrum.


P sounds good. I assume a minor amount of lemon would have little effect on the wine ?


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## winemaker81 (Feb 15, 2022)

My first question is, "what is a loquat?" [I had to search on it.]

@CortneyD's suggestion of lemon juice makes sense. My only concern is using more lemon juice to protect the fruit than you want in the wine. Depending the amount of juice, you can drain off some the lemon juice and not add it all to the wine.

If it's a mild fruit, use at least 6 lbs per gallon, up to 12 lbs.

Another thought: First freeze the fruit and defrost it. Let's assume you're doing a gallon batch -- have a gallon of water ready with the juice of 3 lemons in it. Slice the fruit and immediately drop in the water. This should reduce or eliminate browning.

Bananas will provide more body. Depending on how mild the loquat is, it may add flavor. I don't have direct experience to work from.


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## VinesnBines (Feb 15, 2022)

From Wikipedia it seems a loquat is similar to a peach or apricot. I would say you might not need to worry about browning if you quickly freeze them in halves like peaches. I thawed my peaches quickly and added sugar so browning was not a problem.
Go heavy on the fruit. I don’t know that I would use the bananas. Remove the seeds and use as ripe as you can. 
Wikipedia says they make a light wine.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 15, 2022)

Made a one gallon batch about 3 years ago. Used 4 lbs of de-seeded loquats from our daughter home in California. Taste was too light so if I did it again I'd go with at least 6-8 lbs of fruit. It's an interesting fruit and reminds me in shape, texture and the seeds to a persimmon. I de-seeded them bagged then and then we drove back to NW Arkansas. The wine was a light orange color and I imagine would have been a little darker with more fruit. Cleared nicely with no headaches there. I'd try it again if I could get about 20-24 lbs of de-seeded loquats for a 3 gallon batch.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 15, 2022)

Thanks for the advice. Loquats are a unique fruit. Kind of like a sweet tart. There are different varieties and sweetness can vary from variety. When they are fully ripe they are so tasty especially when still warm from the sun. I’ve got two medium small trees. I should be able to get about 6 pounds after what we eat fresh


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 15, 2022)

_Humm Bryan am I the only one on the forum to have eaten loquats?, ,,,, (I had a tree in Houston) ,,, my numbers on fresh loquat are pH 4.90/ TA 0.37/ SpGrav 1.079
loquat is a small tree of Chinese origin with a large double seed/ roughly 50% of the fruit is pulp the rest is seed, and loquat has lower moisture than a peach. Flavor is fruity like a peach. Mine had fire blight and didn’t live to be sixteen.
@FlamingoEmporium Do you have the ability to run pH? The primary should be pH adjusted. (I have not tried loquat wine so some choices on how to process.) I see them in the oriental rice products store in syrup with good color so my guess is browning is enzymztic oxidation. _


winemaker81 said:


> My first question is, "what is a loquat?"


 
* loquat browns badly, option four: if I wanted to minimize browning I would put a gallon or two in a five gallon pail and submerge the fruit in water with 50ppm metabisulphite (AKA the concentration used in wine). At this point take a knife and start removing the seeds. (haven’t looked to see if the seed contains cyanide like cherry seed). As the seeds are removed transfer to a clean solution of 50ppm meta > acidify to pH 3.4 or even 3.2 > freeze for a week or so > thaw and run this in the primary mixing to submerge the fruit, ,,, oxygen (air exposure) will cause browning and can be minimized by having 50ppm meta in all water you use.
* OPTION ONE: wash the loquats > put in a steamer and steam for half an hour with the goal of inactivating browning enzymes > remove and submerge in the primary target five or more pounds of fruit per gallon > adjust the added water to pH 3.0 with sugar to 1.095 > ferment with mixing every day like a red grape > at 1.010 gravity remove fruit > press or squeeze as much juice out as you can > rack the wine to a carboy > top off with water which is adjusted to 1.090 gravity.
* *OPTION TWO*: wash as #1 > steam as #1 > run through a food mill to remove pulp from seeds > mix five or so pounds of fruit slurry per gallon in a primary > add water and sugar to bring the primary to 1.090/ one gallon > add pectic enzyme > add acid to bring the primary to pH 3.2 to 3.5 (yes wider since pH will equilibrate faster) > mix in bentonite as if a kit > add meta, tannin and yeast > ferment to 1.010 to 1.020 > run the wine slurry through a fine mesh filter bag under gravity, as it seems to stop add light pressure to force more wine out > transfer to a carboy under air lock with 50ppm meta > etc finish but expect cloud (might be more efficient to do bentonite in the secondary)
* *OPTION THREE*: ignore the browning and just run it. Add meta to the fruit before removing seeds > press onto a bucket so that air is removed > add enough water to cover the fruit > then freeze for at least a week > run in a fine mesh nylon straining bag like peaches or plums > etc primary is at pH at 3.2/ gravity at 1.095/ tannin added etc ( I like color so a would mix in a red color juice instead of water Ex 10% raspberry or 5% cranberry or 1% aronia)

PM me if you have questions. I would test a pound with option three to look for processing issues, or do option four and ignore color. (one of the things I learned in the pilot plant was to have a back up option B or C or even D)


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 16, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> _loquat is a small tree of Chinese origin with a large double seed/ roughly 50% of the fruit is pulp the rest is seed, and loquat has lower moisture than a peach. Flavor is fruity like a peach. Mine had fire blight and didn’t live to be sixteen.
> @FlamingoEmporium Do you have the ability to run pH? The primary should be pH adjusted. . _


I’m not sophisticated enough to test ph at this point. I’m leaning toward a combo of option three and 4. I will be freezing for sure (in batches) since fruit doesn’t ripen all at once, and that should help to break down the loquats. I suppose they will still require a little mashing since they are fairly firm for the amount of juice they actually produce. Seeds come out fairly easily so I’m thinking submerge, slice in half freeze 

I’ll let you know in about a month and a half .


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 16, 2022)

*pH acts as a preservative*!
All recipes make some assumptions about how much acid to add to get a safe pH so I encourage you to get a narrow range pH paper strips/ (pH 3.0 to 4.0) ,, it should be less than $5 and works well enough on clear/ yellow juices. The reality is that if I have my back yard tree which I can pick every day as the fruit ripens it is totally different from the unripe acidic stuff in the food chain.
By the way,,, passion fruit should have a good pH as 3.00 / TA 5.22% or 2.83/ TA 5.16%


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## Raptor99 (Feb 16, 2022)

My pears tend to turn brown when prepping, freezing, and thawing them. Last year I added some acid blend and pectic enzyme to the pears before I froze them. Since I know I am going to add acid anyway, I decided how much to add based on my past experience making pear wine. I added a bit less than I figured I would eventually need. Then when I made the wine, I measured pH and adjusted the acid as usual.

The acid helped to prevent browning, and the pectic enzyme could start to work while freezing/thawing. Pear wine from that batch is clearing much faster than the previous year's batch. I think that this will be my new SOP for low acid fruit like pears and peaches.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 16, 2022)

Keep in mind that "Browning of the fruit does not mean it's oxidizing or that you are losing flavor at all. Try to prep apples and not get some brown in the fruit and when you run it through even a slow juicer like an Omega - what comes out is a brown apple cider/ juice. Taking normal precaustions should be adequate. As I mentioned my Loquat wine turned out a beautiful golden color


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 16, 2022)

I’m good with golden color as long as it tastes”golden” too.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 16, 2022)

Also 6 lbs sound like the right amount for 1 gallon. It might be on the short side of how much you want but I'm pretty sure you'll be happy with not stretching it further.


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## pproctorga (Feb 18, 2022)

When I get a crop I freeze them. I haven't checked their SG but I imagine it's too low for wine. I have used mine in the secondary added to beer (wheat) and it turned out nicely.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 18, 2022)

pproctorga said:


> When I get a crop I freeze them. I haven't checked their SG but I imagine it's too low for wine. I have used mine in the secondary added to beer (wheat) and it turned out nicely.


Hmmm, well maybe i’ll add some frozen banana. But some are really sweet to eat, and the juice just runs down your chin…………


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 18, 2022)

wines are made with a variety of wet vs dry foods, ,,, ex grape juice vs coffee. With high sugar wet foods I would call wine a preservative/ processing to maintain the calorie. And related to other calorie sources as sour kraut or cheese. Dry wines are more of a synthetic “flavored” sugar wine. Both systems work. When we talk about five or six or ten pounds of fruit per gallon we assume that some water will be involved and some “dry” pulp is a byproduct. When I have a dry/drought crop I normally have more solids/ better flavor. In grapes this is usually called a vintage year (more solids scores higher). If @pproctorga has a low moisture crop it can produce a vintage loquat wine, ,,,, of course as a home wine maker we can double or even triple the fruit solids in the primary with little cost and make every year a vintage year.

*The key is do you like the loquat flavor enough that it’s worth the effort?* Take it as a given that most of the current sweet is removed and for stability it is acidified making the taste more like Chardonnay.


FlamingoEmporium said:


> Hmmm, well maybe i’ll add some frozen banana. But some are really sweet to eat, and the juice just runs down your chin…………


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 18, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> *The key is do you like the loquat flavor enough that it’s worth the effort?* Take it as a given that most of the current sweet is removed and for stability it is acidified making the taste more like Chardonnay.


At this stage in my winemaking career it’s not really “effort”. More of a “wow, I made wine that tastes like wine”. I’m not looking for sweet fruity flavor I want a dryer wine that you can tell was made with fruit I guess. But yes loquat flavor is something else yumm.
Plus the fact that I have plenty of loquats. I made jam a few years ago but you can only eat so much jam. Wine on the other hand…..


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## winemaker81 (Feb 18, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> At this stage in my winemaking career it’s not really “effort”. More of a “wow, I made wine that tastes like wine”. I’m not looking for sweet fruity flavor I want a dryer wine that you can tell was made with fruit I guess. But yes loquat flavor is something else yumm.


Fruit wines typically need some level of backsweetening to bring out the fruit aroma and flavors. However, very little is needed -- I'm a dry wine drinker and have backsweetened wines from 0.990 to 0.994, which did what *I* needed. The wine is barely off-dry, but has the flavor I wanted.

Some folks backsweeten a lot more. Go by what your taste is and what the wine tastes like.


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 18, 2022)

I have been there,  when working in pasta sauce one can only give away so many sauces or salsa. Humm I still have 2001 strawberry jam on the shelf and 2014 tomato/basil and last spring year gave away five gallons of rhubarb juice and . . . ,


FlamingoEmporium said:


> Plus the fact that I have plenty of loquats. I made jam a few years ago but you can only eat so much jam. Wine on the other hand…..


my answer/ my wine style is use 100% fruit, ,,, since I garden.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 19, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> when working in pasta sauce one can only give away so many sauces or salsa.


The first year my dad planted zucchini, he had NO idea how much a vine produced. My mom found many recipes for zucchini; we tried literally half a dozen recipes for jam. I quickly learned to hate zucchini,.

My dad missed one in the middle of the patch, and it grew to about 8 lbs. He brought it up to the house to show the family. It was woody and fibrous and inedible. At that time I was into Agatha Christie mysteries and thought about writing "Murder by Zucchini", where the murder weapon is disposed of by eating it.

There is "too much of a good thing".


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## oppyland (Feb 19, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> last spring year gave away five gallons of rhubarb juice and . . . ,


Oh, man. I could have used that! I do a regular circuit in town getting rhubarb in spring.


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## oppyland (Feb 19, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> The first year my dad planted zucchini, he had NO idea how much a vine produced. My mom found many recipes for zucchini; we tried literally half a dozen recipes for jam. I quickly learned to hate zucchini,.



I think we have the same dad!


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## sour_grapes (Feb 19, 2022)

oppyland said:


> Oh, man. I could have used that! I do a regular circuit in town getting rhubarb in spring.



I _DID_ use it! Thanks again, @Rice_Guy !


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## Scooter68 (Feb 19, 2022)

There are stories / jokes about how in some small towns in NewEngland early to late summer is the only time when folks lock their cars when they go shopping in town. The cause, too many generous folks gifting their over abundance of veggies to anyone whose car is not locked. I believe zuchinni gifting is the most common 'crime' that time of year.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 19, 2022)

Scooter68 said:


> I believe zuchinni gifting is the most common 'crime' that time of year.


. Well I’ve done that.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 19, 2022)

For me it’s papayas. I’ve got more than I can eat. I surreptitiously leave them at friends doors


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 19, 2022)

I guess you wouldn’t be interested in how my zucchini wine turned out, , , , , ?


winemaker81 said:


> My mom found many recipes for zucchini; we tried literally half a dozen recipes for jam. I quickly learned to hate zucchini,.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 19, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> I guess you wouldn’t be interested in how my zucchini wine turned out, , , , , ?


Good lord, NO!!! Dang it! Back into therapy!!


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 20, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> I guess you wouldn’t be interested in how my zucchini wine turned out, , , , , ?


Trust me on this one, do NOT make zucchini pancakes.


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## oppyland (Feb 20, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> . Well I’ve done that.


When I was a kid, we used to leave zucchini on neighbors' porches as a joke (sorta). That worked fine until they got wise and zucchini started reproducing on our porch!


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## winemaker81 (Feb 20, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> I guess you wouldn’t be interested in how my zucchini wine turned out, , , , , ?


Here's a blast from the past!

Zucchini Wine | Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum


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## Khristyjeff (Feb 20, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I quickly learned to hate zucchini,.


I'm with you. I used to do meeting planning which involved arranging banquet meals at various hotels. They were notorious for using zucchini whenever possible, so I would tell them "any vegetable except zucchini." Still, there were several times they would shred it and top the salads with it. Their zucchini storage facility must have been huge!


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 21, 2022)

Loquats on the small tree slowly getting ripe. The big tree out front is a little slower this year.


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## Jovimaple (Feb 21, 2022)

Soooo much zucchini bread in the freezer... Unfortunately, that was also the year Mom and Dad decided freezing green peppers was a good idea. Maybe that's why I dislike green peppers - cinnamon-sweet zucchini bread with a green pepper flavor just does not work.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Feb 21, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> Soooo much zucchini bread in the freezer... Unfortunately, that was also the year Mom and Dad deciding freezing green peppers was a good idea. Maybe that's why I dislike green peppers - cinnamon-sweet zucchini bread with a green pepper flavor just does not work.


Good thing they weren’t into taxidermy. Some people store their carcasses in the freezer. hmm, this zucchini bread tastes like possum!


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## oppyland (Feb 21, 2022)

Jovimaple said:


> Soooo much zucchini bread in the freezer... Unfortunately, that was also the year Mom and Dad deciding freezing green peppers was a good idea. Maybe that's why I dislike green peppers - cinnamon-sweet zucchini bread with a green pepper flavor just does not work.


This brings back so many memories! My dad once had the brilliant idea to buy a 50# bag of onions - I'm sure because it was a "good deal". My family was fairly large, but there was no way we could possibly consume 50# of onions before most of them spoiled, so he decided chop and freeze most of them, tossing about 100 pungent Baggies into our small chest freezer (which, of course, was loaded with lots of other foods). I like onions a lot, but I still gag when I think about the onion-flavored ice cream.  My mom wasn't happy!


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## winemaker81 (Feb 21, 2022)

Fortunately me for me, I learned to NOT drink anything while reading posts. If I hadn't learned that lesson, the last few posts would have resulted in wine sprayed on my screen and keyboard!


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## Scooter68 (Feb 22, 2022)

oppyland said:


> This brings back so many memories! My dad once had the brilliant idea to buy a 50# bag of onions - I'm sure because it was a "good deal". My family was fairly large, but there was no way we could possibly consume 50# of onions before most of them spoiled, so he decided chop and freeze most of them, tossing about 100 pungent Baggies into our small chest freezer (which, of course, was loaded with lots of other foods). I like onions a lot, but I still gag when I think about the onion-flavored ice cream.  My mom wasn't happy!




SURPRISE - Drive through Gilroy California sometime and check out there.... Are you ready for it.... Garlic Ice Cream! My wife loves it. It's OK but you'd better be ready for that first burp cause yeah, It's coming back for another taste/smell.

(Gilroy is the Garlic Capitol of the US)


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## Scooter68 (Feb 22, 2022)

By the way, I've heard that Zucchini baseball is fun - of course the zucchini as a bat doesn't last long.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 1, 2022)

Maybe add some fresh pineapple to my loquat wine…..


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## Scooter68 (Mar 2, 2022)

Just remember Pineapple is a very dominant flavor and it will take over the taste profile probably at around 25% - That's just a guess but knowing that loquat flavor is not very strong and pineapple is quite strong - you might want to ferment separately and blend afterwards.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 3, 2022)

Scooter68 said:


> Just remember Pineapple is a very dominant flavor and it will take over the taste profile probably at around 25% - That's just a guess but knowing that loquat flavor is not very strong and pineapple is quite strong - you might want to ferment separately and blend afterwards.


Yeah I was looking at the tree loaded with loquats today and thinking what else I might want to flavor with. I ate two yummy sweet warm loquats, so they DO have some flavor when fully ripe. I’ve got mango in the freezer, passion fruit juice in the freezer, lime juice in the freezer, but I was thinkng today, maybe just a little raspberry. I think blending might be a good idea. Decisions Decisions. 

It’s just that I wouldn’t have enough pineapple to do a separate batch. I don’t suppose you would back sweeten with raw juice ?


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 3, 2022)

I would back sweeten with a juice concentrate from the freezer case and might even do five variables out of a five gallon carboy, BUT pineapple usually has some pulp so it might need a month to settle and then get racked. Canned juice might be possible to siphon, haven’t tried it since I aim for highest sugar/ lowest water. Raw juice I would pasteurize or sorbate first.
Loquat is fairly fast to clear out of the mouth. I like longer flavor notes as grapefruit or cranberry or apricot or tannic crab apple and then use a threshold level like 5%. Lime juice is powerful and 1% might overpower the mix. I use 5% black raspberry as my standard to make rhubarb wine pink and don’t think I taste it out of the mix.


FlamingoEmporium said:


> Yeah I was looking at the tree loaded with loquats today and thinking what else I might want to flavor with. I ate two yummy sweet warm loquats, so they DO have some flavor when fully ripe. I’ve got mango in the freezer, passion fruit juice in the freezer, lime juice in the freezer, but I was thinkng today, maybe just a little raspberry. I think blending might be a good idea. Decisions Decisions.
> 
> It’s just that I wouldn’t have enough pineapple to do a separate batch. I don’t suppose you would back sweeten with raw juice ?


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## Ohio Bob (Mar 3, 2022)

I had the same thought, that adding raw red raspberry juice to my wild blackberry port would be a good idea. Raw juice needs pectin enzyme in order to break down. So my blackberry port got instantly more cloudy, more sediment, took a few months of aging to get it to clear.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 3, 2022)

So it sounds like I could ferment either a small batch of pineapple or maybe raspberry (high fruit content to water ? ) then stabilize it with sorbate and use small amounts to flavor the loquat batch early in the aging process ?


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## Ohio Bob (Mar 3, 2022)

It doesn’t need to be sorbated before blending, you can if you want. It just needs to be clear enough not to give haze to the blend.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 4, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> So it sounds like I could ferment either a small batch of pineapple or maybe raspberry (high fruit content to water ? ) then stabilize it with sorbate and use small amounts to flavor the loquat batch early in the aging process ?


Sorbate is only necessary when you add sugar or any other fermentable substance, e.g., honey, juice, etc.

I'd keep all blending wines dry, sweeten after blending. This avoids accidentally adding too much sorbate.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 4, 2022)

Got it. 
Add juice etc. = sorbate
Add/blend wine = no sorbate

thanks for being so helpful.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 4, 2022)

First batch of loquats picked and in the freezer just over 1 1/2 lb. About 80% are peeled. Plenty more to pick and freeze in the next few weeks. 


if I can do that 3 more times should be about right.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 7, 2022)

5 pounds of loquats in the freezer so far. Peeled and pitted. A bunch in the fridge for fresh eating (good in oatmeal for breakfast)
looking at maybe 3 weeks or so to start that batch. I might get enough to do one later this year as well.

gotta get the passion fruit bottled and out of the way first. I know now I could have gone a little heavier on the passion fruit juice and mango pulp that were my first ever 2 batches, but I just wasn’t sure back then. 
there is so much good info here.


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## Scooter68 (Mar 8, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> 5 pounds of loquats in the freezer so far. Peeled and pitted. A bunch in the fridge for fresh eating (good in oatmeal for breakfast)
> looking at maybe 3 weeks or so to start that batch. I might get enough to do one later this year as well.
> 
> gotta get the passion fruit bottled and out of the way first. I know now I could have gone a little heavier on the passion fruit juice and mango pulp that were my first ever 2 batches, but I just wasn’t sure back then.
> there is so much good info here.


It's a learning experience And if the flavor isn't as strong as you'd like. (weak) Then when you serve to friends or family you can describe to friends: "*It's a wine that is light on the palate, it doesn't over power your taste buds."

*


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 9, 2022)

OK. I picked a crapload(technical term) today and sat out on the lanai (85°) peeling and pitting loquats. ive decided to do a 2 gallon batch.
Question 1. Normal sugar when doing a gallon batch is 2 pounds Give or take depending on how sweet / sugar content of fruit.
so if I’m doing 2 gal. Batch I’m thinking 4 lbs. BUT I’m using 10 lbs of fruit. Adding 1/2 pound of mango as well. So is4 lbs. too much ? 

or do I go by SG ? Add more sugar to get a good SG reading ? 

Question 2 What should that starting SG be ?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 9, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> or do I go by SG ? Add more sugar to get a good SG reading ?


Always go by SG. Every other measure is situational, e.g., you're guessing if you don't use a hydrometer.



FlamingoEmporium said:


> Question 2 What should that starting SG be ?


Completely useless but equally valid answer of the day: What do you want it to be?  

What ABV are you targeting? I prefer fruits in the 11% to 12% range, so an SG of 1.080 to 1.090 works. If I'm adding much sugar, I target the high end of the range. If you want a higher ABV, 1.095 to 1.100 works.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 9, 2022)

Looking for around 12% so I’ll shoot for 1.090


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 10, 2022)

Wow. Had too add a bunch more sugar to get it to 1.086 or 1.088 finally. I think it’s time to consider growing sugar cane again. I thought with the 10 lbs of loquats and one pound of mango there would have been a little more natural sugar. 

does anyone have a nice template for keeping notes on my computer ?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 10, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> does anyone have a nice template for keeping notes on my computer ?


I keep my notes on my blog site (see my sig). Notes on paper, then transcribed to my site.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 10, 2022)

And…. It’s working. Fermentation pushing the must up nicely. 

All that picking seeding and peeling is paying off (hopefully)


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## Scooter68 (Mar 10, 2022)

Wondering why you didn't keep the skins on? Skins in many fruits really add color and a lot of flavor and more.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 11, 2022)

Scooter68 said:


> Wondering why you didn't keep the skins on? Skins in many fruits really add color and a lot of flavor and more.


they all have the little black blossom end that has to be cut or rubbed off, some have rough or scab patches, etc. when I eat them I usually eat most of the skin but there isn’t really any flavor that I can tell, other than a slightly bitter taste. About 10 % had skins on them. Not too sure how much color It would add since they browned a little anyhow but I’m thinking skin or no skin color wouldn’t change much.

some fruits like mango you wouldn’t use Skins but I figured loquats was a toss up. Made it easier to mash them Without. Next time I will try a small batch WITH skins. I should have enough to freeze a bag for a one gallon batch this fall.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 14, 2022)

Fermentation was originally pushing the fruit up high in a 2 inch thick slab. 4 days now and it’s down to 3/4 inch in thickness. Punch down with squishing with the slotted spoon and fermentation has reduced the fruit to what will hopefully be some yummy liquid. SG slowly dropping - smells really nice. I do believe the ec-1118 will ferment raw chicken .  hmmm fried chicken wine ?


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 14, 2022)

Cleaned the trees off. Loquat Season over. Got enough for a gallon more, maybe even 2


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 14, 2022)

And I got a good look at the color of my must. You know the color of fresh squeezed cider ? Yup full baby diaper brown !


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## Scooter68 (Mar 14, 2022)

Ok That's a couple of good reasons. I was lucky when I picked them from our daughters trees in Irvine CA so I didn't have a problem with browning and once I de-seeded them we froze them for our trip back to NW Arkansas.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 17, 2022)

Pitched the yeast on my Loquat wine on 3/10. EC 1118
starting SG was 1.088. has been dropping very slowly.
3/12 1.064 3/14 1.060 3/15 1.044. 3/16 1.034
today it was 1.032. 
does it appear to be OK ? Seven days in I was expecting it to be a little lower. 
it appears to be working but not as rapid as initially.
what do you experts think ? 
it tasted fruity, maybe a little sharp.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 17, 2022)

How much nutrient. I've realized in recent years how much difference that makes. Also, what is the room temperature?


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 17, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> How much nutrient. I've realized in recent years how much difference that makes. Also, what is the room temperature?


2 gallon batch so I used 1 tsp of nutrient.
this is Florida it’s been warm lately, it’s in the coolest room in the house. It might get down to 72 on cool nights and probably hangs around 77° during the day. I’ve been stirring 3 times a day. Is that too much ? The must kept pushing up and browning, so I tried to keep it turned over. Next batch of loquats I might use a bag.

the ferment has eaten up at least 1/2 of the fruit.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 17, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> 2 gallon batch so I used 1 tsp of nutrient.
> this is Florida it’s been warm lately, it’s in the coolest room in the house. It might get down to 72 on cool nights and probably hangs around 77° during the day. I’ve been stirring 3 times a day. Is that too much ? The must kept pushing up and browning, so I tried to keep it turned over. Next batch of loquats I might use a bag.


I'd be tempted to add another 1/2 tsp nutrient.

5 degree temperature changes don't appear to affect larger batches, IME, but for a 2 gallon batch it might. If you can move the batch to keep the temperature more stable, it _might _help. [This is a guess on my part.]

Stirring 3 times per day is fine IMO.

If it's tasting sharp, pH may be low and that can affect it.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 17, 2022)

Thanks Bryan. I’ll add another 1/2 tsp
no ph meter. I’ll start budgeting (beg the appropriations manager) or maybe buy some strips in the meantime.
should I try to add acid somehow ?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 17, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Thanks Bryan. I’ll add another 1/2 tsp
> no ph meter. I’ll start budgeting (beg the appropriations manager) or maybe buy some strips in the meantime.
> should I try to add acid somehow ?


If it's tasting sharp, the pH is low, meaning the TA is probably high, so you don't want to add acid. You may want to reduce acid, but that's tough during fermentation.

I'm a dinosaur that uses pH strips to roughly gauge pH, does not use a pH meter, and adjusts by taste.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 18, 2022)

Down to 1.022 with tonight’s punch down. It’s actively working. I mashed the loquat earlier, and what was about 9 pounds of fruit is now a thin maybe 1/4 inch think layer. Lots of yeasty lees in the bottom. I stir carefully now to avoid stirring them up too much. It looks like it might be a nice color when it goes into secondary. I anticipate moving it the middle of next week if all keeps going as is.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 19, 2022)

And now down to 1.015
going To be out of town Tuesday an Wednesday so I think I will rack to secondary maybe tomorrow To get it under airlock. Should be close to 1.010 or. Slightly lower by then.
the only question I have is based on @winemaker81 ’s thread on Sur Lie and Bâttonage and how much of the fine lees to put in secondary. I could do one gallon with and one without.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 19, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> the only question I have is based on @winemaker81 ’s thread on Sue Lie and Bâttonage and how much of the fine lees to put in secondary. I could do one gallon with and one without.


I'm still figuring out the amount of fine lees for sur lie, but IMO this may be a different subject. If it was mine, I'd rack off the gross lees, and the racking would be a bit dirty. I'd not sweat sucking up a bit of sediment. Put the wine under airlock and check it next weekend.

My reasoning:

My mentors used the 1-3-3 rule -- 1 week for fermentation, 3 weeks for clearing, and 3 months for bulk aging. After pressing the wine sat for 3 weeks on the lees, which certainly contained fruit solids (gross lees).

Currently folks are doing EM -- wine gets to 1.010, then the fermenter is sealed and left for 1 to 8 weeks. If the gross lees was a real problem, why does this work???

Granted -- the wines we're discussing area typically red, and whites and light fruits are more sensitive. However, IME letting the wine complete fermentation over the next week will be fine.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 20, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I'd rack off the gross lees, and the racking would be a bit dirty. I'd not sweat sucking up a bit of sediment.



well it’s racked into secondary. Dirty it is. Fine Strained as much of the pulp as I could. There is a lot of sediment (3 inches) in the bottom of the two one gallon carboys. 9 pounds of loquats turned into a lot of fine applesauce like pomace, and I assume some liquid. I started out with 2 full gallons of water, and I now have about 2 1/2 gallons in secondary. Should have plenty for topping off.

i will probably need a good bit of that, as I mentioned the lees are pretty deep. 3 inches or so right now. I’m sure it will settle some. Not really what I assume is gross lees, but wispy and light. Pictures will come eventually.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 21, 2022)

Here’s what it looks like. 
I will probably leave it be for 3 weeks then rack off the lees. It’s interesting, every now and then a small gas bubble will kick up a bit of the sediment like wispy clouds


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## cmason1957 (Mar 21, 2022)

Reminds me of when I have done pear or apple wine in the past, always lots of lees from those two. You might have to hit your wine with more pectic enzyme post fermentation to get it to clear. I read somewhere, but could never find again, add twice or three times as much once alcohol is present.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 21, 2022)

I've never made pear wine but the texture of the loquats is extremely similar. It’s amazing how much they broke down into micro mush.
when should I try the pectin enzyme ? It’s only been in the carboys two days so far. I’ve got a small bottle of lees that i siphoned off cold crashing in the fridge. It’s about 50 % liquid 50% lees. It isn’t really any clearer than what’s in the carboys so I’m thinking I might have to eventually take steps to clear it.

that reminds me I’ve got to go update my notes.


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## cmason1957 (Mar 21, 2022)

You have plenty of time to wait. This is going to be a long term project, I would guess. Let it keep settling out, when you rack try not to get much of the lees, but don't worry if you get some. Once you add some Kmeta and let it sit and age for a bit will be the time to worry about clearing. I'm thinking two, three months down the road. My worst clearing pear took almost a full-year and triple pectic enzyme added twice to completely clear. My wife named the wine "Clearly Pear"


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 21, 2022)

cmason1957 said:


> You have plenty of time to wait. This is going to be a long term project, I would guess. Let it keep settling out, when you rack try not to get much of the lees, but don't worry if you get some. Once you add some Kmeta and let it sit and age for a bit will be the time to worry about clearing. I'm thinking two, three months down the road. My worst clearing pear took almost a full-year and triple pectic enzyme added twice to completely clear. My wife named the wine "Clearly Pear"


Thanks. I’m prepared to wait on this one. I think it’s going to be good.
I’ve just got to empty some bottles now for when the time comes to bottle.

i have enough extra to top off with so I’ll be very careful when I rack to avoid lees, and then let the leftovers with the lees settle into my early drinker.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 21, 2022)

I agree with Craig, although I'd dose it with double-dose of pectic enzyme now, to get it started.

My guess is the lees is really find, so trying to strain the large chunks is a waste.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 21, 2022)

I strained all the large chunks out. It is super fine lees. 

Just mix the pectin enzyme with a small bit of the wine to dissolve it or just put in in ?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 21, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Just mix the pectin enzyme with a small bit of the wine to dissolve it or just put in in ?


I'd remove a good sized sample, enough that you can stir the secondary. Add the pectic, stir, then add the removed sample back.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 21, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I'd remove a good sized sample, enough that you can stir the secondary. Add the pectic, stir, then add the removed sample back.


That’s gonna stir up a whole cloudy mess but OK


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## winemaker81 (Mar 21, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> That’s gonna stir up a whole cloudy mess but OK


It settled once, it will settle again. It's called battonage.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 24, 2022)

SG today. Approaching 1 week in secondary. 
gallon 1 = 1.010
gallon 2 = 1.008

750 ml 1 = 1.002 
750.ml 2 = 1.006 ( the less active bottle)

yeah I know, time for bigger carboys

the taste was all very similar. Not much fruit taste yet. Not a terrible taste though. Not as sharp as previous. These will definitely be getting a Backsweetening.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 27, 2022)

Just over a week in secondary. Still very active. I think the SG is right around 1.000
not sure. it was a rum drinking evening, so I had to squint to see numbers. 

there is quite a bit of fine lees on the bottom. Not clearing much yet. 

if I stick with the 1 - 3 - 3 method I’ve got 2 weeks to next racking.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Mar 28, 2022)

I couldn’t stand that deep mess of lees in the bottle. The SG was .998 in one carboy and 1.000 in the other I went ahead and racked and about 1/2 of the lees appeared to be macerated loquat moosh.
I’ve still got 2 full gallons with enough to top off one more time if needed.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 8, 2022)

10 days later and very little clearing. I’m pretty sure I added some extra pectic enzyme. Gotta check notes. Might have to eventually clear this one somehow. 
still dropping fine lees about 1/2 inch or more even after racking 10 days ago. Still quite active. 

im content to let it go a while longer.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 8, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> 10 days later and very little clearing. I’m pretty sure I added some extra pectic enzyme. Gotta check notes. Might have to eventually clear this one somehow.
> still dropping fine lees about 1/2 inch or more even after racking 10 days ago. Still quite active.
> 
> im content to let it go a while longer.


What is the SG? If it's 0.998 or lower, it's probably done and degassing. Give each carboy a good stir and wait a few days. Once the excess CO2 is gone, sediment will drop.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 8, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> What is the SG? If it's 0.998 or lower, it's probably done and degassing. Give each carboy a good stir and wait a few days. Once the excess CO2 is gone, sediment will drop.


.996 last time I checked. I’ll give it a stir.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 11, 2022)

3 days later its steady at .996. Looks like fermentation is done.
it looked a little clearer in the small test glass, although the taste was not really remarkable. fruit smell but no fruit real fruit taste. Still a fair amount of lees, so I’ll rack one more time and then play around with Backsweetening in a few days.
Ph appears to be around 3.8.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 14, 2022)

Looks a little clearer today. Maybe another month And a half and I can bottle before heading north for a weeks vacation.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 18, 2022)

Unremarkable taste. A bit sharp. Not really any flavor. Ph appears to be 3.6 or thereabouts. Still opaque, but a little clearer 

gallon #1 received some Backsweetening and sorbate, I’ll stir it tomorrow some more and check flavor later in the day.


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## BigDaveK (Apr 18, 2022)

Maybe it's one of those Wait-A-Year-To-Drink wines?


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 18, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Maybe it's one of those Wait-A-Year-To-Drink wines?


I was just thinking that. There goes 2 carboys for a year.
it’s bound to get better with age… maybe


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 20, 2022)

Well, the very light Backsweetening I did on the one gallon improved the taste remarkably. I didn’t taste the un-sweetened gallon since it wasn’t quite 9:00 am yet.


in the words of @winemaker81 “when backsweetening, if you think the wine needs _just a bit more_, stop. The wine probably doesn't, and once you've added sugar, it's really hard to take it out. ”

I’m not sure just yet. I don’t want it to taste sweet, I prefer it dry. 

I’ll try it again in a day or 2. And I’ll try the coconut, and the mango…..


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## winemaker81 (Apr 20, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> I didn’t taste the un-sweetened gallon since it wasn’t quite 9:00 am yet.


It's after 5 PM in Dubai. You need to adjust to having a world economy.  

As I mentioned in other threads, I've backsweetened from 0.990 to 0.994. That amount of sugar made a tremendous difference without producing a sweet wine.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 20, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> It's after 5 PM in Dubai. You need to adjust to having a world economy.


I’m retired, I live in Florida, so anytime after 9:00 is fine, unless of course you go out for breakfast or have family visiting, then mimosas or Bloody Mary’s are OK anytime after 6:00 am. 
it’s just that today is grocery shopping day, and I have to drive.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 24, 2022)

Slight clearing with pectic enzyme and stirring but still a bit cloudy. Might eventually have to treat with sparkoloid (unless @BigDaveK says loquats are positively charged +++) and then I have to decide ifi want to buy some bentonite for the coconut wine or just leave it to nature to decide.


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## BigDaveK (Apr 24, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Slight clearing with pectic enzyme and stirring but still a bit cloudy. Might eventually have to treat with sparkoloid (unless @BigDaveK says loquats are positively charged +++) and then I have to decide ifi want to buy some bentonite for the coconut wine or just leave it to nature to decide.


Well....
This was tough. Had to check in a round about way. I found A LOT of recipes for loquat wine and most of them used no fining agent at all, letting it clear on its own. Sounds like clearing will just be a matter of time.

However, I found one - just one - that used bentonite, which _implies_ positively charged particles.

Again, since 99% of the recipes don't mention fining agents, I guess it's not an issue. Time.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Apr 24, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Well....Sounds like clearing will just be a matter of time.


 🕸


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## winemaker81 (Apr 24, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Again, since 99% of the recipes don't mention fining agents, I guess it's not an issue. Time.


Fining agents can be used with any wine. In most cases, it's a choice, although some wines are stubborn and refuse to clear without.


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## FlamingoEmporium (May 2, 2022)

Sparkoloid cleared the loquat wine up really nice. It’s got a nice amber color. 

im pretty sure it’s going into bottles soon. I’ll do a little bit of tasting to make sure I’m happy and then I’ll show you “my pretty”


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## FlamingoEmporium (May 4, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Sparkoloid cleared the loquat wine up really nice. It’s got a nice amber color.
> 
> im pretty sure it’s going into bottles soon. I’ll do a little bit of tasting to make sure I’m happy and then I’ll show you “my pretty”


EDIT - One gallon cleared way more than the other. The second was clearer but not crystal clear.

don’t know if it was all sparkoloid related or maybe a combination of time and fining agents. In hindsight should have waited till I had bentonite to add to the other and compare.
no worries. Taste was very nice. Dry but pleasant dry. Backsweetened enough for a slight aroma and pleasant taste.

im thinking this will definitely improve with age.


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## FlamingoEmporium (May 8, 2022)

How long before the sparkoloid finishes dropping solids out. It looked incredibly clear but it was settling out wispy bits a few days after treatment. When will it be safe to bottle ?


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## BigDaveK (May 8, 2022)

I've only used it twice for Dragon Blood. I know we're not comparing apples to apples but the DB was crystal clear in 3 days. It was a PITA, though, because I used a glass carboy and a lot of sediment settled on the ribs. I had to swirl the heck out of it and wait another couple days.


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## winemaker81 (May 8, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> How long before the sparkoloid finishes dropping solids out. It looked incredibly clear but it was settling out wispy bits a few days after treatment. When will it be safe to bottle ?


I haven't used sparkaloid in decades, but recalled that the final wisps took weeks to settle. Give it another couple of weeks.


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## FlamingoEmporium (May 28, 2022)

Tastes good. A nightmare to get clear.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Jul 15, 2022)

4 months later I cracked open a chilled bottle. Not any bouquet to it but it tastes really nice and smooth. Glad I’ve got several more bottles aging away.

and I have enough loquats in the freezer for another batch later this year.


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