# First cyser



## Maronleighton (Sep 13, 2020)

Started my first batch of cyser friday around 10 a.m. d-47 yeast 3 pounds clover honey. But I have a question about the airlocks. I see no big bubbles popping or moving but the inside cap is lifted off the tube, so I don't know if thats OK or not. So maybe you guys can take a look and tell me if I'm being just a bit obsessive lol. The must itself had been bubbling, but it seems to have slowed down as of Sunday morning, still no airlock activity. 


These pics are this morning 9/13

This is when it was first pitched on Friday 9/11. It looks to have way more activity than the current photos. So I'm a bit concerned. Any feed back would be great. Thanks!


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## salcoco (Sep 14, 2020)

follow the specific gravity. measure to see if there has been any reduction?


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

salcoco said:


> follow the specific gravity. measure to see if there has been any reduction?


I currently don't have a hydrometer, I know its necessary. Im going to be ordering one


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## BernardSmith (Sep 14, 2020)

Hi Maronleighton, and welcome. Measuring the change in gravity over time and the gravity at any point in time is what tells a wine maker what is going on inside the fermenter. Watching bubbles or movement in an airlock might be amusing but that really tells us next to nothing. An hydrometer is perhaps the only piece of equipment that is necessary - a bit like an inch-tape if you are a carpenter.


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## salcoco (Sep 14, 2020)

another thought did you add any yeast nutrient like Fermaid K or Fermaid-O


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

salcoco said:


> another thought did you add any yeast nutrient like Fermaid K or Fermaid-O


I used dap


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

Maronleighton said:


> I used dap


1 tsp when I pitched the yeast


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## Rice_Guy (Sep 14, 2020)

* if I had the foam seen in photo 9/13 I would assume it is active. When there aren’t other indicators a gravity is the only indicator, @BernardSmith has good points.
* At some point look into tannic apples (bitter sweets or bitter sharps). I did a crabapple cyser last year which was about half cider half crab (10% would balance better), backsweetened with apple concentrate to 1.015 and got a blue ribbon at contest.

Welcome to WMT, wish you could bring a finished to the vinters club meeting so we could compare cysers.


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> * if I had the foam seen in photo 9/13 I would assume it is active. When there aren’t other indicators a gravity is the only indicator, @BernardSmith has good points.
> * At some point look into tannic apples (bitter sweets or bitter sharps). I did a crabapple cyser last year which was about half cider half crab (10% would balance better), backsweetened with apple concentrate to 1.015 and got a blue ribbon at contest.
> 
> Welcome to WMT, wish you could bring a finished to the vinters club meeting so we could compare cysers.


So the lack of foam isn't saying its inactive necessarily?


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

And would ot hurt to re pitch some more yeast and put it in there? Or should I give it more time?


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## salcoco (Sep 14, 2020)

without some measurements everything you do is guessing and risky I am not sure what the specific gravity of honey is but if low then you might have fermented out pretty quickly. someone else might know what the sg of honey is. I assumed you did not add any sugar.


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

salcoco said:


> without some measurements everything you do is guessing and risky I am not sure what the specific gravity of honey is but if low then you might have fermented out pretty quickly. someone else might know what the sg of honey is. I assumed you did not add any sugar.


Nope, no sugar added.


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

Maronleighton said:


> Nope, no sugar added.


I also used about 1/2 to 3/4 gallon of tree top apple juice in each carboy. It does not have any preservatives or added sugar


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## salcoco (Sep 14, 2020)

Apple Cyser Mead Recipe - 1 Gallon - Home Cider Making here is a recipe I got off of the internet plus some discussion. I also googled specific gravity for honey which would average about 1.040. since you said some bubbling occurred although not in the airlock there is a chance your cyser might be done. without the hydrometer we can't tell. your steps and the recipe call for seem to be tracking together so I don't think you made any errors. getting a hydrometer and making measurement is what is needed before any further steps.


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

salcoco said:


> Apple Cyser Mead Recipe - 1 Gallon - Home Cider Making here is a recipe I got off of the internet plus some discussion. I also googled specific gravity for honey which would average about 1.040. since you said some bubbling occurred although not in the airlock there is a chance your cyser might be done. without the hydrometer we can't tell. your steps and the recipe call for seem to be tracking together so I don't think you made any errors. getting a hydrometer and making measurement is what is needed before any further steps.


So the sg would've gone up with adding the apple juice as well, correct?


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## salcoco (Sep 14, 2020)

yes the sg of the mixture would be higher with the addition of apple juice


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

Maronleighton said:


> So the sg would've gone up with adding the apple juice as well, correct?


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## Maronleighton (Sep 14, 2020)

Maronleighton said:


> View attachment 65980


I have no idea how to read this


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## sour_grapes (Sep 14, 2020)

Maronleighton said:


> I have no idea how to read this



Here ya go: How To Read Hydrometer


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## Maronleighton (Sep 16, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> Here ya go: How To Read Hydrometer


So the recipie I followed has an original gravity of 1.138. I took a reading last night, it was at 1.050. So that should put me around 11% abv. So might that explain why there isn't a lot of bubbling or foaming in the must? I'm only 6 days in.i have a hard time thinking it might be done already. Maybe it just slowed down because the yeast is trying to break down more complex sugars? This was the must this morning


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## Maronleighton (Sep 16, 2020)

And when should I rack to secondary?


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## salcoco (Sep 17, 2020)

normally when the specific gravity reaches 1.000 or when the specific gravity stays at the same value for three days straight. I don't recall the yeast you used but they normally have a alcohol tolerance and will stop fermenting when they reach this point rather than when the sugar was gone. depends on sg when you started and the yeast tolerance. in this case three days straight value is used.


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## Maronleighton (Sep 17, 2020)

salcoco said:


> normally when the specific gravity reaches 1.000 or when the specific gravity stays at the same value for three days straight. I don't recall the yeast you used but they normally have a alcohol tolerance and will stop fermenting when they reach this point rather than when the sugar was gone. depends on sg when you started and the yeast tolerance. in this case three days straight value is used.


Lalvin d47


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## salcoco (Sep 17, 2020)

do you have starting specific gravity?


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## Maronleighton (Sep 17, 2020)

salcoco said:


> do you have starting specific gravity?


I dont but I follwed a recipe really closely and it should be around 1.138


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## salcoco (Sep 17, 2020)

ok that is probably over the yeast alcohol tolerance so go to secondary when all fermentation stops and sg is the same for three days. keep in secondary for three days and rack off of the gross lees add k-meta. wait three weeks and rack off of fine lees then go into bulk aging.


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## Maronleighton (Sep 17, 2020)

salcoco said:


> ok that is probably over the yeast alcohol tolerance so go to secondary when all fermentation stops and sg is the same for three days. keep in secondary for three days and rack off of the gross lees add k-meta. wait three weeks and rack off of fine lees then go into bulk aging.


Ok, my understanding is its ok to leave on the d47 lees for quite a while. Is that wrong?


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## Maronleighton (Sep 17, 2020)

Maronleighton said:


> Ok, my understanding is its ok to leave on the d47 lees for quite a while. Is that wrong?


And there is still lees dropping to the bottom of the carboys. Should I wait until a nice cake forms, and it clears a little before racking? Its still pretty cloudy as far as I can tell


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## salcoco (Sep 17, 2020)

no. once you rack int the secondary the fermentation is complete and any dead yeast fall to the bottom. any live yeast will eat the dead giving off odors. thus three days rack action.


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## Rice_Guy (Sep 17, 2020)

I would assume that on day six the yeast are still working but in a stressed condition. You have air locks therefore the old adage “patience” is worth remembering. It will take months to clear. (haven’t opened the recipe but for cyser it needs pectase to clear)


Maronleighton said:


> So the recipie I followed has an original gravity of 1.138. I took a reading last night, it was at 1.050. So that should put me around 11% abv. So might that explain why there isn't a lot of bubbling or foaming in the must? I'm only 6 days in.i have a hard time thinking it might be done already. Maybe it just slowed down because the yeast is trying to break down more complex sugars?


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## Maronleighton (Sep 17, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> I would assume that on day six the yeast are still working but in a stressed condition. You have air locks therefore the old adage “patience” is worth remembering. It will take months to clear. (haven’t opened the recipe but for cyser it needs pectase to clear)


So leave them to work a little bit longer in primary?


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## salcoco (Sep 17, 2020)

what is the specific gravity now?


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## Maronleighton (Sep 17, 2020)

salcoco said:


> what is the specific gravity now?


1.050


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## salcoco (Sep 17, 2020)

let it sit for a while longer not ready for the secondary yet.


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## Maronleighton (Sep 17, 2020)

salcoco said:


> let it sit for a while longer not ready for the secondary yet.





Rice_Guy said:


> I would assume that on day six the yeast are still working but in a stressed condition. You have air locks therefore the old adage “patience” is worth remembering. It will take months to clear. (haven’t opened the recipe but for cyser it needs pectase to clear)


So in a stressed condition means they will work slower correct? Because I took sg reading for 2 days in a row. And they looked about the same.


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## salcoco (Sep 17, 2020)

stressed means stink check sg in a few days if the same rack off of lees added oxygen while racking might start fermentation again


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## Rice_Guy (Sep 17, 2020)

Yes stress means slow
Potential error in a hydrometer. CO2 bubbles in a ferment makes it hard to get good readings. ,, If your gravity is 1.050 a change of 0.001 represents about 0.10% sugar(s) going upward and 0.2% drop in sugar(s) going downward. Honey is a mixture of several types of sugar and is harder to ferment than the sugar in apple. . . . _PATIENCE _


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