# Best sugar for back sweetening?



## blumentopferde (Oct 20, 2020)

Hello there!

Which sugar would you recommend to back sweeten a wine? Is there any significant difference in taste? 
And are there any non-fermentable sweeteners that you could recommend? At the moment I am using sorbitol syrop but I have the impression that it leaves a weird aftertaste...

Thanks for any recommendations!


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 20, 2020)

I just use plain white sugar. Castor sugar is also a choice - it dissolves more easily. 

I have the same impression with the non-fermentable sweeteners, though no actual experience.


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## Booty Juice (Oct 20, 2020)

A simple syrup of cane sugar.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 20, 2020)

I don't have direct experience with nonfermentable sugars, but I do know that about two years ago one of the members of the wine club i belong to did a test of several of the fake type sweetness. I remember he did stevia, saccharine, and one or two others, plus a sugar one for comparison. As I recall all of the non-fermentable ones had somewhat of an odd taste to them.


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 21, 2020)

Honey is “_less”_ fermentable than table sugar, with a clean flavor, ,_BUT _ it will make the wine look cloudy since bees put protein in it.
Most artificial sweeteners have an off flavor, the cleanest flavor is aspartame however it breaks down over a year in high acid liquids like soda (pH approx 2.5) Wines are approx pH 3.5 which would slow the reaction.


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## blumentopferde (Oct 21, 2020)

Thanks for your replies! So i will just stick to regular sugar for back sweetening.
But for sparkling wine I would still like to use a non-fermentable sweetener... What do you think about birch sugar (Xylit)? Any experience with that?


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## Venatorscribe (Oct 22, 2020)

I use Erythritol to back sweeten both still and sparkling styles... as I have a sugar intolerance issue. Erythritol works beautifully.


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## blumentopferde (Oct 22, 2020)

Venatorscribe said:


> I use Erythritol to back sweeten both still and sparkling styles... as I have a sugar intolerance issue. Erythritol works beautifully.


Thank you for that hint! that sounds like a useful product! Do you have any experience if it keeps its sweeting power over long time periods? I had the impressions that some of my wines that I sweetened with Sorbitol lost sweetness over time...


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## Venatorscribe (Oct 22, 2020)

I have never had a loss of sweetness and it doesn’t have that metallic tingle that some of the other sweetners seem to have ... however - just like all of them - don’t overdose - as it can cause a bit of intestinal gas. Around 350 to 400 gms in ten litres is more than enough. That will give you a dry to medium wine, dependent upon your fruit base. the flavour profile develops over the period of one or two months. So you need to trust your instincts. And back sweetening whilst you are initially still holding it in bulk


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## blumentopferde (Oct 22, 2020)

thanks for these insights!
Just found it on a local store for 6 EUR (about 7$) per kg... So I'll give it a try!
Just one more question: You say the flavour develops over time: So will the impression of sweetness also change over time? So should I rather use less sweetener than my tongue actually tells me to use?


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## Venatorscribe (Oct 22, 2020)

Yes. That’s my experience. i found that I don’t get the full sweetness profile in the beginning. Hence when I first started using Erythritol a few years back I added far too much. I now use those early still and sparkling pear wines for blending in with other fruit wines and only pop a bottle for direct drinking when a couple of sweet wine drinking friends turn up. So in summary my 0.035 to 0.04 % is basically half what I used to do when I shifted to it. And I would recommend you aim for that level. Erythritol is only 80% of the general sweetness of sugar. Your price is similar to what I pay in New Zealand. It’s not cheap. But it is worth it. Cheers


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## blumentopferde (Oct 23, 2020)

Thanks for the clarification! Just bought me a bag of Erythrol and will try it out this season!


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## Venatorscribe (Oct 23, 2020)

blumentopferde said:


> Thanks for the clarification! Just bought me a bag of Erythrol and will try it out this season!


Pleased I could help. What fruit are you using in the wine. All the best. Cheers


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## E-man (Oct 23, 2020)

I use xylitol to back sweeten sparkling ciders and it tastes ok and has worked fine. Most recently tried Erythritol to backsweeten a sparkling concord wine which I have yet to taste, letting it bottle carb now. Xylitol is a little different taste than sugar but I don't use a lot as we prefer and off-dry cider.


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## hounddawg (Oct 23, 2020)

i tried honey a few years ago tasted great, but around 4 to 5 years it completely changes the taste, i did not like that, i use regular cane sugar, I pour it in dry, stir using a carboy stir attached to one of my cordless drills, each year my wines get better and better with age, but i do country wines done sweet, i bulk 1 to 2 tears except for elderberry, 8 to 10 years and skeeter pee port around 6 to 8 months, ( and i admit as a lot say,, I ain't right in the head ) 
Dawg


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## blumentopferde (Oct 25, 2020)

Venatorscribe said:


> Pleased I could help. What fruit are you using in the wine. All the best. Cheers


This year I only made wine from grapes. The sparkling wine will be done with sweetener instead of sugar so I can sweeten the wine before secondary fermentation and don't have to reopen the bottles afterwards. The goal is an "extra dry" style with an equivalent sugar content of about 15 g/l.



hounddawg said:


> i tried honey a few years ago tasted great, but around 4 to 5 years it completely changes the taste, i did not like that, i use regular cane sugar, I pour it in dry, stir using a carboy stir attached to one of my cordless drills, each year my wines get better and better with age, but i do country wines done sweet, i bulk 1 to 2 tears except for elderberry, 8 to 10 years and skeeter pee port around 6 to 8 months, ( and i admit as a lot say,, I ain't right in the head )
> Dawg


8-10 years for elderberry? Wow, thats quite some time! How come? I just recall that I still have an unopened elderberry wine from 2012 - maybe it's time to give it a try!


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## hounddawg (Oct 25, 2020)

blumentopferde said:


> This year I only made wine from grapes. The sparkling wine will be done with sweetener instead of sugar so I can sweeten the wine before secondary fermentation and don't have to reopen the bottles afterwards. The goal is an "extra dry" style with an equivalent sugar content of about 15 g/l.
> 
> 
> 8-10 years for elderberry? Wow, thats quite some time! How come? I just recall that I still have an unopened elderberry wine from 2012 - maybe it's time to give it a try!


the old timers sold their elderberry at 4 to 6 years but kept for themselves 8 to 10, it becomes as smooth as silk, now i do a 2 to 1 blackberry-elderberry that's very good at 2 years, not a lot of people like elderberry, but the longer you age the smoother it gets, 
Dawg


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## blumentopferde (Oct 25, 2020)

Hounddawg, How much water do you add to the elderberry juice before fermentation? My 2012 elderberry wine was an experiment - I fermented pure elderberry juice and only added some sugar. Unfortunately this turned out to be undrinkable. It had an extremely harsh and medicine-like taste... so maybe I should give it even more than the suggested 8 to ten years before I try it again...


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## hounddawg (Oct 25, 2020)

blumentopferde said:


> Hounddawg, How much water do you add to the elderberry juice before fermentation? My 2012 elderberry wine was an experiment - I fermented pure elderberry juice and only added some sugar. Unfortunately this turned out to be undrinkable. It had an extremely harsh and medicine-like taste... so maybe I should give it even more than the suggested 8 to ten years before I try it again...


yes that's why most don't like it, i use 5 lb. elderberry to the gal of water and it still takes forever to smooth out, the juice you used was it single strength, or condensed, did you press the juice yourself, elderberry is a extremely strong juice, i'm sure other would know different ways, but if you used straight pressed juiced, i'd dilute it, with either water, or blackberry wine, the way i make mine is 5 lb. elderberry to each gallon of water, and during fermentation i stir with a drill, which breaks down the berries, was your juice pressed by you, or bought,
Dawg


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## blumentopferde (Oct 26, 2020)

It was straight pressed juice. As far as I remember I fermented it with the skins, then boiled it up to 80°C to break down the Sambunigrin and pressed it by hand (didn't have a press back then). It was quite a mess....


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## hounddawg (Oct 26, 2020)

5 lb. per gallon of water is pretty strong, that is how i do mine, if you make blackberry it makes a great blend, but you'd need to figure your juice from berry conversion then ad that amount to your blackberry wine at bottling time,,,, or using a conversion of elderberry from berries to juice figure your 5 lb. to gallon of water, then dilute and bottle back right off the bat, if you're young i guess you could try 20 years or better  ,,,as for me this is the first full strength elderberry I've ever heard of, whew, one thing for sure it would be great for your heart, arthritis or diabetes, do you know your ABV, all my wine last much longer in oxygen then others, and with out the alcohol taste,
you have several or just a bottle or two. even a bottle would flavor a fair amount of blackberry,
Dawg


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## blumentopferde (Oct 26, 2020)

Venatorscribe said:


> Yes. That’s my experience. i found that I don’t get the full sweetness profile in the beginning. Hence when I first started using Erythritol a few years back I added far too much. I now use those early still and sparkling pear wines for blending in with other fruit wines and only pop a bottle for direct drinking when a couple of sweet wine drinking friends turn up. So in summary my 0.035 to 0.04 % is basically half what I used to do when I shifted to it. And I would recommend you aim for that level. Erythritol is only 80% of the general sweetness of sugar. Your price is similar to what I pay in New Zealand. It’s not cheap. But it is worth it. Cheers



Now I understand what you were trying to point out: I just opened a wine from 2015, sweetened with Sorbitol. The label says : sugar: 5g/l -this is 0.5%. I always factored in that Sorbitol has only 50% sweetening power, so that means that I added 10g/l of Sorbitol. Well, the wine tastes VERY sweet now. If I would guess, I would say 15-20g regular sugar per liter. I opened another wine from 2013, which says 9g/l sugar (=18g/l Sorbitol) and it is undrinkably sweet now. It seems like the sweetness of Sorbitol multiplies over time, exceeding the sweetness of regular sugar by far.
Do you have similar experiences with Erythritol?



E-man said:


> I use xylitol to back sweeten sparkling ciders and it tastes ok and has worked fine. Most recently tried Erythritol to backsweeten a sparkling concord wine which I have yet to taste, letting it bottle carb now. Xylitol is a little different taste than sugar but I don't use a lot as we prefer and off-dry cider.


Thank you to share that experience! How is your experience with Xylitol? Did you experience any big developments in sweetening power?



hounddawg said:


> 5 lb. per gallon of water is pretty strong, that is how i do mine, if you make blackberry it makes a great blend, but you'd need to figure your juice from berry conversion then ad that amount to your blackberry wine at bottling time,,,, or using a conversion of elderberry from berries to juice figure your 5 lb. to gallon of water, then dilute and bottle back right off the bat, if you're young i guess you could try 20 years or better  ,,,as for me this is the first full strength elderberry I've ever heard of, whew, one thing for sure it would be great for your heart, arthritis or diabetes, do you know your ABV, all my wine last much longer in oxygen then others, and with out the alcohol taste,
> you have several or just a bottle or two. even a bottle would flavor a fair amount of blackberry,
> Dawg


I just have one bottle (=1 liter) of the pure elderberry wine. The ABV should be around 11%. That was calculated from assumed sugar content plus added sugar, so it is far from exact. I don't have access to blackberries, so mixing is not an option. I guess I will wait a few more years, maybe 5 or so, and try it then...


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## sour_grapes (Oct 26, 2020)

blumentopferde said:


> The label says : sugar: 5g/l -this is 0.005%.



I believe that is 0.005 (no percent), or 0.5%.

(Good to see you back on WMT. I still get a chuckle out of my misreading your "potting soil" name as "blumento - horse."  )


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## blumentopferde (Oct 27, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> I believe that is 0.005 (no percent), or 0.5%.



You are right, of course! I corrected the text now!


> (Good to see you back on WMT. I still get a chuckle out of my misreading your "potting soil" name as "blumento - horse."  )



Thank you! And nice to hear that this little joke still works from time to time!


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## E-man (Oct 27, 2020)

blumentopferde said:


> Thank you to share that experience! How is your experience with Xylitol? Did you experience any big developments in sweetening power?



Honestly, I haven’t let any of the ciders age that long as we usually drink them within 6 months so I’m not sure. Hasn’t seemed to get any sweeter over that short period of time though.


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## Bmd2k1 (Dec 22, 2022)

Venatorscribe said:


> I use Erythritol to back sweeten both still and sparkling styles... as I have a sugar intolerance issue. Erythritol works beautifully.


Does erythritol affect the SG in a similar way to sugar?


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## Hazelemere (Dec 22, 2022)

blumentopferde said:


> Hello there!
> 
> Which sugar would you recommend to back sweeten a wine? Is there any significant difference in taste?
> And are there any non-fermentable sweeteners that you could recommend? At the moment I am using sorbitol syrop but I have the impression that it leaves a weird aftertaste...
> ...


dextrose


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## Venatorscribe (Dec 23, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Does erythritol affect the SG in a similar way to sugar?


Yes it does.


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