# New guy and equipment



## jayhkr (Dec 6, 2015)

Hello everyone! I've been a lurker for a bit and thought it was far time for me to make my first post and introduce myself. My name is Edward and have decided to get into the beginning stages of home wine brewing! I'm sure like many of you, there was someone in your family somewhere down the line who also used to brew their own wine. My great grandfather used to grow his own grapes and make his own wine. So I want to go down that road, but with a more simplified approach at first. Start off with a "concentrate" recepie first and work my way up the ladder from there. I know first time wine makers want their wine quick, so something simple and easy to begin with then we can dive into more elaborate recepies later on. I have found a great local brewing store that I will purchase most if not all my equipment from. (http://www.bacchus-barleycorn.com/catalog/index.php) So my biggest question is what equipment should I start with? I'd like to start small with some 1 gallon carboys first. Maybe 2. I just don't want huge jugs until I see how everything works out first. That being said where would you guys steer me towards for a beginner? 

Ive made a preliminary list of what I think I need, but would like to get opinions of others first! I'm very open to suggestions and helpful hints. Here's my list so far:

5/16 inch Auto-Siphon
14586
$11.75

14 inch Hydrometer Test Jar Plastic
56540
$5.30

Syphon Hose 5/16 inch id-5 ft
14750
$3.08

Triple Scale Hydrometer
56640
$8.50

Red Star Montrachet Yeast-5 gr
46600
$0.80

Racking Tube Tip
14620
$0.89

Solid Gum Stopper # 6 x2
12840
$2.40

Fermentation Lock, # 6 x2
12160
$4.16

Gallon Jug, NEW x2
11190
$10.80

Potassium Campden Tablets-20 ct
24360
$1.95

2 Gal Fermenting Bucket W/ Drilled Lid
10750
$9.65

So this comes to about $60 before tax. I have no real set budget, but let's not get crazy. I can always add/upgrade later if this really takes off. Let's say around $100-125. Help me out guys, what do you recommend?

I appreciate the help and look forward in learning everything I can about this great new hobby I'm ready to dive in! Thank you!


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## Rocky (Dec 6, 2015)

Jayhkr, welcome to the forum. You have a decent starter list there and I have a couple of comments. 

1. How do you plan to use the auto siphon? From the fermenter to the carboys? That would work but from carboy to carboy, i.e. racking, be sure that the auto siphon will fit into the mouth of the carboy. You have a racking tub tip listed but no racking tube.

2. Montrachet is a good all around yeast for many types of wine. So is Lalvin EC1118.

3. You have listed "solid gum stoppers #6" which I would assume are for the carboys. You will also need "holed gum stoppers" to hold the airlocks. Further, I would recommend a number 6.5 stoppers for 1 gallon carboys.

4. A 2 gallon fermenter is fine if you are only going to make 1 gallon batches at a time. If you plan to make a 2 gallon batch, you will need something larger.

5. I would suggest Potassium Metabisulfite powder rather than campden tablets, which have to be crushed and dissolved. You will also need to make a sanitizing solution for all of your equipment (3 T of Potassium Metabisulfite in 1 gallon of water). One campden tablet is equivalent to about 1/4 teaspoon of K-meta.

Some of the other stuff it would be nice to have can be found around the kitchen, such as a stirring spoon, a turkey baster (to remove wine from the fermenter to fill your test jar), measuring spoons, measuring cups, etc.

What do you plan to use to make the wine? You mention using a "concentrate." What do you mean by that? 

Good luck!


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## Arne (Dec 6, 2015)

You best get some wine nutrient and maybe energizer, especially if you are using montrechet. If you don't keep your nutrients up, montrechet has a habit of giving you the dreaded rotten egg smell. For the first couple of trys, red star champaine yeast mite be a bit easier for you to use. Get a few batches under your belt, then try the montrechet. You have a pretty good list there. If you have a local store, it is easy to pop in and get whatever else you need. I get to drive at least 100 mi. one way to get to my local store. You are going to need something for bottling down the road. You can wait til you get your wines made before buying anything like a corker, tho. Can also bottle in swing top bottles for short term. My thoughts are stay away from the cheap plastic beat the cork in corker. They do work, but they aren't much fun to use. Havn't used the double lever one, but others do and say they work fine. I went with a floor corker and never looked back. Don't think I would invest in one until you decide you are going to keep on with the hobby, tho. Good luck with it and have fun. Arne.


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 6, 2015)

I would also look on craigslist as I have seen some people get out of the business of making wine and they sell all their stuff - great bargains to be found there !!


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## Rocky (Dec 6, 2015)

Thig, You are probably right on the campden. I never have used them but I think the dose is one tablet per gallon. And since he is making 1 gallon batches, maybe campden tablets would be easier to measure. I still would get a bag of K-meta for sanitizing solution.

I use #6.5s on my 1 gallon carboys (jugs). I definitely use #7s for my 3, 5, 6 and 6.5 gallon carboys. Here are some pictures of 1 gallon, 3 liter, 1.5 liter jugs with #6.5s. I guess I prefer some of the stopper to protrude above the opening, some may not.


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## dralarms (Dec 6, 2015)

Welcome to WMT


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## Thig (Dec 6, 2015)

Rocky I agree, get some kmeta. I don't use the tablets either, just seems I remember them being about 1/16th of a tsp.


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## NorCal (Dec 6, 2015)

Do a batch of Skeeter Pee first. It was an excellent way for me to learn about fermentation and the basic process steps and equipment. Here was my list of stuff, total cost was around $20. There are other things like racking tube, carboys (buy used 5 galloners). 6 gallon brew bucket with drilled lid, hydrometer, but no need to go crazy with equipment.

Sparkolloid - 1 oz.	8363	4	
Potassium Metabisulfite - 2 oz.	8359	4
Yeast Energizer - 1 oz.	8332	4	
Yeast Nutrient - 2 oz.	8334	4	
Wine Tannin - 1 oz.	8340	1	
Lalvin EC-1118 Champagne	8835	4
Potassium Sorbate - 1 oz.	8350	4
Airlock 3-Piece Type	6005	4	
Small Universal Carboy Bung- Drilled	6122	4	

-------

For a 5 gallon batch

3 bottles of 32 oz 100% lemon juice (e.g ReaLemon in the green plastic bottles or equivalent)

7 lbs sugar (or 16 cups) to ferment

3/4 tsp tannin

6 tsp. yeast nutrient (3 now, 3 later)

2 tsp. yeast energizer (1 now, 1 later)

Approx, 4 1/2 gallons water

Yeast Starter

Potassium metabisulfite (Kmeta)

Potassium sorbate (sorbate)

Sparkolloid

2 1/3 lbs sugar (or 6 cups) to sweeten finished Skeeter Pee. Use more or less for your tastes.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 6, 2015)

Welcome to WMT, jayhkr!


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## JohnT (Dec 6, 2015)

Welcome to the forum!

look into the starter kits that are out there. You might end up saving money in the long run...


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## heatherd (Dec 6, 2015)

Welcome to the forum and the hobby!


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## cintipam (Dec 6, 2015)

Hi Jay, and welcome

looking at your list I have a couple suggestions. If you buy an autosyphon, it will come with a tip already attached so only buy another if you think it likely that you will lose one, which can happen. I also started with gallon plans but very quickly graduated to 5 & 6 gallon batches because it is really the same amount of work with much better pay off. So you list a 5/16 autosyphon, but don't state mini. Mini is used exclusively for gallon batches only, whereas the full length 5/16 can be used with both gallon and larger carboys. It's a bit awkward using that long length in the gallon jugs, but it's doable. The 1/2 autosyphon, called grande, will not fit into the gallon jugs.

Also regarding plastic carboys I do have and use both plastic and glass carboys. I use plastic during the beginning phases when lots of racking is required to eliminate lees, as I find it a lot easier for this old woman to handle the plastic than the heavy slippery glass. Lots of racking means lots of cleaning, so plastic it is. But for true long term aging plus ability to use the vacuum method of racking, glass is really the only way to go. A few months back I transferred some wine that was already a year old out of plastic into glass for the first time. I was amazed when the airlock started burping regularly again. Hubby and I watched it for close to half an hour til it stopped. We decided that the changes in air pressure that occur with weather changes caused the plastic carboys to give a little thus not needing to burp out the extra air as much as ungiving glass would have. I had noticed that wine just wasn't clearly like I thought it should, but once it burped it all out it cleared up nicely. Since I noticed you had mentioned degassing during bulk aging I thought I should mention all this since it sure did surprise us. That wine still has much more co2 in it than I thought possible at it's age, but I can handle that easily with my allinone pump with a few rackings.

In the beginning I made several wines from fruit juice concentrates. My favorite was cranapple, made with 1/2 cranberry concentrates and 1/2 apple juice concentrates using 71B yeast in order to make all that malic acid softer so the wine could be consumed much younger than any other yeast.

I always talk too much, so I'll stop now.

Pam in cinti


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## jayhkr (Dec 7, 2015)

Thank you ALL for the overwhelming response! Wow, I've been on a lot of forums and this is by far one of THE BEST welcomes I've ever received! I will try to comment on a few suggestions below. 



Rocky said:


> Jayhkr, welcome to the forum. You have a decent starter list there and I have a couple of comments.
> 
> 1. How do you plan to use the auto siphon? From the fermenter to the carboys? That would work but from carboy to carboy, i.e. racking, be sure that the auto siphon will fit into the mouth of the carboy. You have a racking tub tip listed but no racking tube.
> 
> ...





Arne said:


> You best get some wine nutrient and maybe energizer, especially if you are using montrechet. If you don't keep your nutrients up, montrechet has a habit of giving you the dreaded rotten egg smell. For the first couple of trys, red star champaine yeast mite be a bit easier for you to use. Get a few batches under your belt, then try the montrechet. You have a pretty good list there. If you have a local store, it is easy to pop in and get whatever else you need. I get to drive at least 100 mi. one way to get to my local store. You are going to need something for bottling down the road. You can wait til you get your wines made before buying anything like a corker, tho. Can also bottle in swing top bottles for short term. My thoughts are stay away from the cheap plastic beat the cork in corker. They do work, but they aren't much fun to use. Havn't used the double lever one, but others do and say they work fine. I went with a floor corker and never looked back. Don't think I would invest in one until you decide you are going to keep on with the hobby, tho. Good luck with it and have fun. Arne.



I will look into Red Star instead. Last thing I want is my first batch turning into a nightmare that I'll have to listen to the wife about foul smelling things coming from the basement. I am very lucky that the store is literally 10 minutes from where I work so it will be very convenient for me to pop in when needed. I figured bottles would be my last purchase in a month or so, no need to store them now. As far as the corker goes, I planned on a middle of the road model. Thank you!



vacuumpumpman said:


> I would also look on craigslist as I have seen some people get out of the business of making wine and they sell all their stuff - great bargains to be found there !!



Checked CL, and while there were a few people selling things, nothing that was of a "can't live without" type deal. Except maybe the 1 gallon carboy's for $1 each! Only problem is they are 2 hours one way away. I'd spend double in gas to save $5 a carboy. But great suggestion, I will keep my eye out later on too!



NorCal said:


> Do a batch of Skeeter Pee first. It was an excellent way for me to learn about fermentation and the basic process steps and equipment. Here was my list of stuff, total cost was around $20. There are other things like racking tube, carboys (buy used 5 galloners). 6 gallon brew bucket with drilled lid, hydrometer, but no need to go crazy with equipment.
> 
> Sparkolloid - 1 oz.	8363	4
> Potassium Metabisulfite - 2 oz.	8359	4
> ...





JohnT said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> look into the starter kits that are out there. You might end up saving money in the long run...



LOL, makes me wonder how the name Skeeter Pee came up, but that sound like a great first recipe, I'll definitely look into it! I know there's a ton of things I COULD buy, but like a lot of hobby goers, I don't want to buy everything then come to find out it isn't the right thing. But I know I need some additives to my list too. Thank you for the suggestions!



cintipam said:


> Hi Jay, and welcome
> looking at your list I have a couple suggestions. If you buy an autosyphon, it will come with a tip already attached so only buy another if you think it likely that you will lose one, which can happen. I also started with gallon plans but very quickly graduated to 5 & 6 gallon batches because it is really the same amount of work with much better pay off. So you list a 5/16 autosyphon, but don't state mini. Mini is used exclusively for gallon batches only, whereas the full length 5/16 can be used with both gallon and larger carboys. It's a bit awkward using that long length in the gallon jugs, but it's doable. The 1/2 autosyphon, called grande, will not fit into the gallon jugs.
> 
> Also regarding plastic carboys I do have and use both plastic and glass carboys. I use plastic during the beginning phases when lots of racking is required to eliminate lees, as I find it a lot easier for this old woman to handle the plastic than the heavy slippery glass. Lots of racking means lots of cleaning, so plastic it is. But for true long term aging plus ability to use the vacuum method of racking, glass is really the only way to go. A few months back I transferred some wine that was already a year old out of plastic into glass for the first time. I was amazed when the airlock started burping regularly again. Hubby and I watched it for close to half an hour til it stopped. We decided that the changes in air pressure that occur with weather changes caused the plastic carboys to give a little thus not needing to burp out the extra air as much as ungiving glass would have. I had noticed that wine just wasn't clearly like I thought it should, but once it burped it all out it cleared up nicely. Since I noticed you had mentioned degassing during bulk aging I thought I should mention all this since it sure did surprise us. That wine still has much more co2 in it than I thought possible at it's age, but I can handle that easily with my allinone pump with a few rackings.
> ...



Thanks Pam, love to read stories so please always feel free to share with me! I planned on getting a plastic bucket rather than a plastic carboy for my primary, and of course glass carboy's for everything else. As another person stated about starting off with the 1 gallon and upgrading shortly after, I will probably be in the same boat, but 2 - 1 gallon carboys should still yield me about 5 bottles of wine which will last me a few months. If I find myself drinking it quicker than that then I will upgrade. I was thinking of trying the new "flavor's in the smaller stock, and the "flavors" I like more will obviously go into the bigger boys! Thank you again!


So I really appreciate all the wonderful help, suggestions, and tips! What a great start. Tomorrow I will be going to the brew store with my list in hand and an open mind to start this wonderful new hobby. I've got my logs all ready to be recorded on and hopefully in 2-4 weeks I'll have something that resembles wine! Can't wait.


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## Rocky (Dec 7, 2015)

Jayhkr, regarding this question: 

If I were to get a larger primary container, say 6 gallon size, but still only wanted to make 2 gallons in the beginning will it matter much if it's in primary have that much space? I know once I rack over to the carboy's I want to keep about an inch from the top, but what about during primary?

From what you posted, i.e. you are buying a fermenter with a pre-drilled top, I assume you plan to lock down the fermenter during primary. If you read through the forum, you will find people that do it either way, locked down or just covered loosely. I normally do the latter and just lay the lid on top to keep dust and critters out of the wine. For me, the amount of airspace in primary does not make a lot of difference because I usually transfer to secondary fermenters (5 or 6 gallon carboys in my case) at SG 1.020 and add an airlock. Even if you lock down the top, the space will be filled with CO2 and will not endanger the wine for the amount of time you will have it in the primary fermenter.

...and you other question to me: Sounds easier, I like that! Can the K-Meta be used later on to add every few months to my aging wine? 

Yes, the powdered K-meta is added at a rate of 1/4 t. per 5 or 6 gallons of wine. In your case, in that you are making 1 or 2 gallon batches, it might be easier to use the tablets for ease of measuring. I would still recommend getting a 1 lb. bag of K-meta to make a sanitizing solution which you would use to sanitize all of your equipment, e.g. the auto siphon, hoses, spoons, fermenters, etc.


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## jayhkr (Dec 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Jayhkr, regarding this question:
> 
> If I were to get a larger primary container, say 6 gallon size, but still only wanted to make 2 gallons in the beginning will it matter much if it's in primary have that much space? I know once I rack over to the carboy's I want to keep about an inch from the top, but what about during primary?
> 
> ...



Great! I appreciate the feedback and help! I will get both a small bag of tablets as my brew store sells them in a 20ct for $2.00 and I'll also get a bag of the K-Meta! Thank you very much!


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## Dhaynes (Dec 7, 2015)

Buy at least 3 hydrometers. They are very fragile. It's not a question of if you will break one just when. Usually it happens at the most inopportune time.


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## Rocky (Dec 8, 2015)

Dhaynes said:


> Buy at least 3 hydrometers. They are very fragile. It's not a question of if you will break one just when. Usually it happens at the most inopportune time.


 
I tend to agree with this. I have three hydrometers and I have not (knock wood) broken one. I have, however, managed to break a thermometer!


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## JohnT (Dec 9, 2015)

Rocky said:


> I tend to agree with this. I have three hydrometers and I have not (knock wood) broken one. I have, however, managed to break a thermometer!


 
Each year I normally snap at least one of them. This was a banner year... Not a single hydrometer broken!


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## roger80465 (Dec 9, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Each year I normally snap at least one of them. This was a banner year... Not a single hydrometer broken!



Oh boy. Now you did it. Watch for the appearance of Murphy


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## jayhkr (Dec 9, 2015)

Thanks guys, so I started everything Monday 12/7, but didn't add the yeast until yesterday 12/8. Everything is sitting in my 2 gallon bucket, I had originally had the lid and fermentor on it, then read to leave it off so oxygen could get to it. I won't lie, I messed with this pretty badly, fumbling around with it, doing things that were, well, probably what newbies do. So my time is a little off as I originally added the yeast at noon, covered it with the lid and fermentor, left for about 6 hours, saw nothing happening, panic, and messed with it. Basically I added sugar, then water (don't ask me why). After that I just left it and said, "If I screwed it up I'll know in 24-36 hours and I'll just start a new batch" So I stirred it last night before I went to bed and again this morning. There are light bubbles on top but it's definitely not going crazy. I will get some pictures and a hydro reading here this evening for everyone. When I first started, my SG was 1.150 (then I panic) and after I messed with it in the evening last night my 2nd reading was 1.130. So we'll see what this weekend brings and if nothing else I have extra Welch's concord juice left over and yeast. Just so everyone knows, this was the recipe I was doing:

4 cans Welch's Grape Concord Juice
80oz H2O
Sugar to bring it to 1.150 (Super Sugar Method)
1 pkg LC1118 yeast
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/2 tsp Pectic Enzyme 

Anyway's I'll get some pictures and more info to you guys tonight after work! I'm really not to worried now, I think I just needed my first day jitters to get out of the way. Nothing that can't be redone IMO! Salute!


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