# What's wrong? Advice please



## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

I am making my first batch of grape wine in over 30 years. I planned to make 5 gal. I used 15# of store bought red grapes and 4 oranges and crushed them and let them sit for 4 days in a crock stirring 2 times daily. Then I added 2 gal water, nutrients , acid bend, tannin, meta, and pectic enzyme and waited 1 day and added 10# sugar dissolved in 2 1/2 gal warm water and hydrated yeast. It was bubbling slightly and the must is/was 70 degrees. I checked yesterday and today and the SG is 1.3. Isn't it supposed to be higher? I don't think my must was ever fermenting vigourously.


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## AlFulchino (Feb 8, 2011)

sounds like you are making sangria of some sort...also pectic often interferes w yeast activity

what was your initial sg? ( at the time of crush and before sugar addition)


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## Runningwolf (Feb 8, 2011)

What was you beginning sg reading. This is the most important reading as everything is based off of it.


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

It was not reading anything. The hydrometer was touching/sitting on the bottom of the cylinder.


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## AlFulchino (Feb 8, 2011)

then how did you read it the second time when you got the 1.13?


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

The first time I could not read it because it sat on the bottom of cylinder. After I added sugar and it has fermented for 4 days it now reads 1.3. NOT 1.03. 1.3 will only have a potential alcohol content of 4 or 5%.


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## MN-winer (Feb 8, 2011)

Do hydrometers go as high as 1.3? That would be like 35% alcohol or something. Can you reread the hydrometer? 1.03 is 4-5% as you say.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2011)

TENNISTOWINE said:


> The first time I could not read it because it sat on the bottom of cylinder. After I added sugar and it has fermented for 4 days it now reads 1.3. NOT 1.03. 1.3 will only have a potential alcohol content of 4 or 5%.



Well why don't you try taking some out and put it into a test tube to measure? And 1.030 will only give you ABV around 4% - 5% not 1.300. Where did you get a hydrometer that went up to 1.300?


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## AlFulchino (Feb 8, 2011)

take a step back and take another look at the Potential alc for a 1.13 sg reading

a 1.13 and then a final of 1.00 will give you 17.6%

was it 1.13?


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## ibglowin (Feb 8, 2011)

If it is 1.3 (somehow) that would be over 40% ABV! 

Don't see how any yeast could get started in this potion of sorts......


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## jtstar (Feb 8, 2011)

on your test tube how full did you fill it before putting your hydrometer in it


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

Sorry for the confusion. I am learning to read hydrometer. It is now at a reading of SG 1.03 which is PA of 4%. What can I do to get alcohol % higher? Does this mean it did not have enough sugar to begin with?


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

I filled it slowly until it was overflowing and the hydrometer never floated. Does that mean it did not have enough sugar?


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## MN-winer (Feb 8, 2011)

Something is fishy here. If the hydrometer never floats, meaning it sinks to the bottom then you have a SG of less than .990 - lots less. Is it possible you have a crack in it and its taking on water or maybe the wine thief is not full enough to allow for you to take a proper measurement? I think we are missing a piece of the puzzle or maybe I'm not reading these posts correct.

Maybe you should post your recipe here. Adding sugar will make the hydrometer float - YES.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2011)

Sounds like you have too big of a primary bucket, there was not enough volume to take a reading. You need to syphon some into a test jar and take your readings that way. At this point it is too late to figure out what your starting gravity would be.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2011)

TENNISTOWINE said:


> I filled it slowly until it was overflowing and the hydrometer never floated. Does that mean it did not have enough sugar?



what was overflowing?


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

I started a batch of wine and at the beginning I could not take a SG reading because the hydrometer would not float in the test cylinder as i filled it up and when it got full it overflowed (the test cylinder). I added sugar and let it sit for 4 days and now it tests SG 1.03 I should have taken a reading at the beginning but since I didn't does this reading now of SG 1.03 mean nothing? I am wondering what to do now? It has been 5 days since adding yeast. Should I add more sugar to get the PA level higher or does the PA level now mean nothing since I did not take a reading at the beginning? Should I just continue to take SG readings and if so when should I put the must in a carboy?


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## robie (Feb 8, 2011)

Maybe that hydrometer has a crack and is leaky!


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

No the hydrometer is not cracked or leaky - maybe no good though? I may have to forget about the hydrometer reading since I did not get a reading before I added sugar and yeast. Can someone please advise on what I can do now besides just throwing the must in the compost pile?


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## robie (Feb 8, 2011)

Put your hydrometer in some tap water and see if it reads close to 1.000. 
The water has to be distilled water at 60 F to read exactly 1.000, but tap water will read close to it. At least this will tell you if the hydrometer is OK.


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## MN-winer (Feb 8, 2011)

What I would do is first see if you have active ferment. If you know the amount of sugar you added and the amount of liquid you are fermenting there are some good minds on this forum and someone can probably guess where you are at. At this point its going to be some quess work. If you think 1.03 was the reading then I would probably add some more sugar to get it to 1.07 assuming ferment has just started. That is somewhat safe. Then it would be about 10-12% depending upon how much sugar has already been converted. Don't dump it out. This is good learning for you. See how the next few days goes and taste it when its dry to see if you like it. If not then we can do other things.


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks Robie, It read .998. I think my hydrometer is OK, but what should I do with my wine now? It reads 1.03 now but I did not get a reading before I started so how do I proceed?


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks MN-winer, I am finally starting to get some thought on what I should do now. Not what I didn't do but should have (although I will remember next time)!


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## winemaker_3352 (Feb 8, 2011)

Yeah - i might suggest the next fruit wine you make - up the #'s of fruit you are using. 15#'s for 5 gallons is a little on the low side.

I like to do about 6 #'s per gallon.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2011)

Tennistowine,

Start another wine and have the sg after you add the sugar around 1.090. You could assume that since your wine was at 1.030 after 4 days it had to be higher than that to start off. Making a higher alcohol wine and blending will help out. Also I do not believe you have enough fruit in your wine. What type of grapes did you use? And are you trying for sweet wine or a dry wine. If you are going for a sweet wine, then buy some welch's grape concentrate and make a wine out of that and blend. Use 3 cans per gallon.


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks for suggestion about more fruit, when I add suger how much do you recommend? I was trying to do some calculations and I came up with about 3#. Does that sound right? I will add in stages and test between addings.


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## robie (Feb 8, 2011)

Sort of a delimma, since we don't know the starting SG. That's the kicker, as they say back home.

Let's look at some scenarios:
If you put in too much sugar, fermentation could have stopped already, due to the yeast having consumed so much sugar that the resulting alcohol is too high for them to survive. (Depending on the yeast strain, 16 to 18% is about all they can take.) This is not too bad, as the wine will be left sweet, and you likely want it sweet, anyway. You just wouldn't add as much sugar at the end.

If on the other hand, you didn't add enough sugar, you won't have much alcohol; but that would not explain the SG slowing at 1.030. Having a low alcohol wine is not too bad; you can always add some brandy to get the ABV % up to a good level. (add, taste, add, taste, ..etc.)

I'll go with the assumption that you added enough sugar, but things are just slower than you expected. That's not really a problem, some wines can ferment very slowly, depending on temperature, yeast, and lots of other factors. The main things is that the SG continues to drop at least some each day.

Even though you don't see any bubbling, it might still be fermenting. 1.030 might be a little too high an SG to rack to a sealed carboy. Stir it really well to let in some air, keep the temperature closer to 75F if you can, and cover it. (I don't know what kind of container you have it in.)

Check SG again tomorrow. If it has not fallen, let us know.

I just read Julie's post. She know lots about fruit wines.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2011)

for one gallon, roughly 1 cup of sugar will raise sg .018. take a reading first, then add in small amounts and keep checking your readings.


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

I am fermenting in a 12 gal crock. The grapes are red bought from the store. Thanks for all your help. I am going to add more sugar slowly testing SG between times I add sugar and when I get to 1.07 I will stop. I was wondering if I could add more grapes now or not? I plan on letting it sit for awhile.


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## Julie (Feb 8, 2011)

LOL, well I am looking at this as a total new experiment, add the grapes now and save some for a flavor pack once you are done.


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## sjo (Feb 8, 2011)

TENNISTOWINE said:


> I am making my first batch of grape wine in over 30 years. I planned to make 5 gal. I used 15# of store bought red grapes and 4 oranges and crushed them and let them sit for 4 days in a crock stirring 2 times daily. Then I added 2 gal water, nutrients , acid bend, tannin, meta, and pectic enzyme and waited 1 day and added 10# sugar dissolved in 2 1/2 gal warm water and hydrated yeast. It was bubbling slightly and the must is/was 70 degrees. I checked yesterday and today and the SG is 1.3. Isn't it supposed to be higher? I don't think my must was ever fermenting vigourously.



The way I read this you have 5 gallons of must which is made up of 15lbs grapes and 4 1/2 gal. water. 15lbs of table grapes is not near enough for any flavor nor does it contribute much sugar. 
10 lbs of sugar in 5 gallons of must will have an sg of approx 1.08 your grapes will add a little but probably not more than .01. My guess is you're sg was somewhere between 1.085 and 1.09

How much k-meta was added to this batch?
Pectic enzyme should have been added at least 12 hours after k-meta.
I would be careful about adding sugar at this point, there is plenty in there.
Try increasing temp a few degrees and keep an eye on sg. to see if it is dropping. 
SJO


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

*Flavor pack?*

What is a flavor pack? I added 1 1/2# sugar and now the SG is 1.04. The wine still has little bubbles coming to the top. I may add more sugar to get SG to 1.07.


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks SJO, You are correct about my wine. 1/4 tsp Meta added. 2 tsp pectin enzyme added at the same time as Meta. I added 1 1/2# sugar. Now must has 11 1/2# sugar. The temp is 78 degrees. Small bubbles are coming to the cap. SG is now 1.04 What would you do and when should I put into carboy? Thanks.


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## sjo (Feb 8, 2011)

Your sg with the additional sugar would be around 1.09 plus the sugar from the grapes, so maybe 1.10. I would not add any more sugar. 11.5 lbs for 5 gallons is plenty.
I am not sure how many days between when the sugar was added and when you measured 1.03 sg. If only a day or so the sugar maybe did not dissolve and is sitting in the bottom of the must. If more than a couple days it is possible that it did ferment down.
At this point I would stir up the must a couple times a day to make sure the sugar is mixed in well. It sounds as though the yeast is still active as you are seeing bubbles. Keep the temp were you have it and check sg daily to see that it is dropping.
I think the problem is just a faulty sg reading and there is nothing to worry about. Remember with 10 lbs sugar in 5 gallons there is no way sg would have been that low.
At some point after fermentation you may want to add pectic enzyme again as the k-meta will have kept it from doing much.
When I add sugar I usually dissolve it in approx. 200 degree water to make sure it dissolves good. It is possible your sugar is at in the bottom of the bucket and needs to be stirred up. 
What yeast are you using? Some will appear more active than others.
SJO


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks alot for your help SJO. Sugar was in must for 5 days when SG was 1.03 The yeast I am using is Red Star Montrachet BB Jul 2013 What do you think SG should drop to - or is SG supposed to drop and then stop dropping - I think I read it was supposed to remain unchanged for 3 days and then I can rack in carboy? You said to stir at least twice a day. Can I stir more often? Can I stir too much?
Thanks for they step by step help!


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## sjo (Feb 8, 2011)

After 5 days fermenting 1.03 would be expected. Let it get down to around 1.01 and rack to carboy. It should finish somewhere between .992 and .998.
I wouldn't worry about stirring being it has been 5 days. Sounds like everything is going good and there is nothing to worry about at this point. I would expect a couple days to get to 1.01. You still might have to figure out how to get some flavor into this batch as 15 lbs of grapes is pretty week.
sjo


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 12, 2011)

I racked when wine was 1.02 about 2 days as you told me. It is in carboy now with airlock. Will you tell me what to do - I have not added any pectin enzyme because I think it is still fermenting isn't it? How long do I let it sit in the carboy? Do I stir it at anytime. How often do I take SG test? Thanks.


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## sjo (Feb 14, 2011)

Let it finish fermenting in the carboy. Keep temp above 70. There really is no rush at this point. After being in carboy for few days check sg. It should finish somewhere around .092-.096. Check three days consecutively, if sg is unchanged fermentation should be complete. You could rack at this time to get it off gross lees. Maybe hold off on adding pectic enzyme again, if you have a problem getting it to clear you could try the pectic enzyme then.
Sjo


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## TENNISTOWINE (Feb 15, 2011)

Thanks SJO, So in order to check SG it means I have to remove the airlock? Should the wine be stirred at this time? After I rack into another carboy how long do I leave it there before bottling?


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## roadwarriorsvt (Feb 15, 2011)

This is a good learning experience for me as well. Subscribing.....


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