# My first mead - Caramel Apple Cyser



## strut (Oct 27, 2014)

I'm planning a 6 gallon batch of the Caramel Apple Mead Cyser using the recipe I found
here on this site. This is my first mead and I have a few questions about the ingredients and process. 

Is a traditional dark DME appropriate? 

I read somewhere during my research that Caramel Malt is an appropriate substitute for Crystal Malt. Will this, plus the dark DME, be caramel overkill? 

I bartered some computer work for the gallon of honey I'm using for this batch. I don't know what type it is, other than it being raised locally in my area and tasting fantastic! Should I try to find a pound or two of the buckwheat for back-sweetening? 

Thanks in advance!


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## seth8530 (Oct 27, 2014)

Well, I don't think anyone will be able to tell you that you are right or wrong one way or the other. Just be ready for this to be a long haul project since you are dealing with mead and fairly high ABV.


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## strut (Oct 27, 2014)

Thanks Seth. I was hoping someone whose tried the recipe, or has experience with Braggots, might be able to steer me in the right direction. I know I'm in for a long ride as I've been reading up on the subject of meads for several weeks now. I think I've read all of your posts on the subject. 

I had never even sampled a mead until recently. I found I didn't care too much for the few traditional meads I could find locally. I did find something called Zombie Killer/Hunter? which I really liked. It was a cranberry cyser I believe. It was heavily carbonated much like a hard cider. Really good, and really expensive at $14 for maybe a 22oz bottle! I may try to do something similar next time around.


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## Tenbears (Oct 28, 2014)

I do not thing the Buckwheat honey is necessary, Here is why. The nutty earthy tones produced by buckwheat honey in a straight mead will be lost in this Cyser. The caramel flavor imparted by the malt, will overpower the Buckwheat honey thus the buckwheat honey flavor will be lost in the blend. Neither is the Orange blossom required, simply add the peal of one orange. Plant specific honeys make great meads, However, I am of the opinion that much of what they offer is lost in Pyment, cyser, and melomels. others may feel differently. Since wildflower honey is a blend of many different blossoms, it usually works well for those purposes.


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## seth8530 (Oct 28, 2014)

I do not think wildflower would be a bad choice, but I think that adding buckwheat post stabilization to backsweeten would have a decent chance of coming through on this batch since while yes you are making a cyser, apple tends to be a pretty pliable flavor. Plus, consider that it would not ferment, so thus you would manage to keep more of the original buckwheat flavor.

Now as far as other melomels, I feel like using high grade honey is important, but one must consider the fruit being used too. Ie, choose a honey that would work well with the flavor profile of the fruit, and perhaps don't count on retaining the same fidelity of flavor and bouquet that the honey would if it was just on its own. Now for things such as pyments, and botchets and malt heavy braggots, I believe simply using good quality honey is sufficient and perhaps getting a varietal is not so important. However, keep in mind, that my brett mead is technically a braggot, but the buckwheat is still a strong part of the flavor profile. So, it all depends on how you do it.

But each his own!


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## strut (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks for the info Tenbears.

I did some digging last night and believe I found both the original recipe on gotmead.com that summersolstice based this recipe on. I also found what I think is it's predecessor, the "Graff", which is a malted cider that has almost the same recipe minus the honey.

I've decided to try the Graff first, as it is quick to finish, and will be a great test run before I commit $120+ in honey to a recipe.

Looks like most use a light to amber DME in both the Graff and the Cyser so I'll go that route first.

I tracked down a phone number for my honey supplier and gave her a call. Basically I have a wildflower honey as I suspected. She said lots of Tulip Poplar, apple and cherry blossom, clover, and wildflowers in her area. It really is a great honey! They are going to save me a gallon of Peach Blossom honey from their peach farm in Georgia for my next batch!

*edit for "Graff" not "Gaff"


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## BernardSmith (Oct 28, 2014)

I think the word is "graff" and it is a variant on an apple ale, rather than a cyser (which is a mead made with cider. I think the idea was originally taken from a Stephen King story.


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## strut (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks for the correction to my "gaff" 

I read about it's reference to King's The Dark Tower novel. 

"Graf is a strong hard cider or apple-based beer widely consumed in In-World. The specifics of the beverage are not mentioned (except to say that some varieties of graf are weak while others are eye-wateringly strong). 

Graf is said to taste tart, light and refreshing with a deceptively high alcohol content."

Sounds great! The recipe I found on homebrewtalk looks to be one of the more popular recipes on the site. I even read a thread that stated the community has brewed over 3,100 gallons of it to date


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## seth8530 (Oct 28, 2014)

I actually have a plan for making a graff that involves making an unfermentable sugar syrup from crystal and or chocolate malt. Similar to what I am doing to my mead right now. I guess we will see how the mead works out before I apply the same technique to this years apple juice harvest.


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## LoneStarLori (Oct 28, 2014)

I would throw down a $20 bill that says Seth probably can tell. I sure couldn't, but I bet he can. 
Think of it like wine, each grape has a profile based on variety and growing conditions. That's why there are different types of wine. 


Sent from my iPad


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## seth8530 (Oct 28, 2014)

Illbeedan said:


> Seriously! Are you implying that if I dump a pound of honey into 6 gallons of water you can tell me what kind of honey it is? Seriously?



Exactly, or at least something along those lines. Have you tried varietal honey before? It is not completely dissimilar to how you can taste the difference between different kind of red wine juices before they ferment. It might take more than a lb per 6 gallons for it to come through really clear.


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## seth8530 (Oct 29, 2014)

1 lb in 6 gallons of water might be a different story than say 1 lb in 6 gallons of cyser braggot. However.....

If their is a difference in sugar concentration between different kinds of honey, I doubt it is really enough to matter as far as backsweetening goes. On the 6 gallon scale, the flavor impact of 1 lb of honey might be kind of small when backsweetining. I think depending on how low his cyser braggot attenuates ( due to the malt) it is possible that depending on how much honey he uses to back sweeten with he might be able to taste a difference in the kind of honey used. It might be very subtle and most of the uniqueness of the honey used might not come through, but I would not be surprised if underneath it all there would some hint of the honey used to backsweeten with, if an assertive honey such as buckwheat is used. 

Now would this give the user the full buckwheat experience... Nah, but perhaps for this mead using buckwheat to backsweeten would be stylistically more in place than say clover honey and certainly more so than using table sugar.


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## strut (Oct 29, 2014)

For what it is worth... the original recipe made note to how the buckwheat back-sweetening was important to the caramel flavor profile of the recipe. I brought this up as I was wondering if using caramelized malt and a darker DME would help makeup for not using the buckwheat. I have never tasted a buckwheat honey to know any better. 

Which grade(s) of DME would impart the most caramel like flavors? I'd like to find a happy medium between reaching a true caramel apple flavor while keeping the drink crisp, light, and drinkable.

As I mentioned, I plan to experiment on a Graff so I can gain a bit of experience with the ingredients and process before I commit to the mead/cyser/braggot recipe. 

I can certainly see how the buttery undertones of a mead would improve upon a caramel profile in a Graff. With that said, would you suggest ensuring a Malolactic Fermentation? Does MLF usually occur naturally in a mead, cyser, and/or Graff?


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## Deezil (Oct 29, 2014)

This whole conversation reminds me of some experimentation I did through PM with djrockinsteve, a few years ago.. Played with some malts, getting our feet wet with combining wines and beers. I would have to dig through the notes to really remember..

I know he used one of the lighter malts, without much extra flavor additions.. It ended up being a complex wine, but definitely needs to be the undertone to a fruit flavor.. 

That's it, I gotta dig it up, lol.. Did we use apple juice? I cant remember.. I'll be back..


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## strut (Oct 30, 2014)

I'd like to hear more about your experimentation Deezil.


I've rounded up everything I need for a Graff except the ale yeast and a lighter DME. I'm going to make the (long) trip to a supply house tomorrow to pick up the rest. I ordered a traditional dark DME online but I think I'm going to stick to a light/amber mix. 

Can I freeze fresh pressed cider? I hate to miss out on this year's harvest for my cyser/braggot while I'm experimenting with the graff.

I also ran across some Key Lime juice last night that inspired me to make the Mojito Skeeter Pee. My buddy's Lime wine is to die for, so I got to try it.

I really need to stay away from this forum... I've gone off the deep end


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## strut (Nov 1, 2014)

I just pitched my Graff trial run. This is what I went with for a 5.5 gallon primary batch:

Yeast Safale-05
.5 lb of Crystal 120L 
2 oz Cara-pils 
4.5 gallons of Kroger apple juice. ($2.50/g!)
1 gallon of water
1 lb. amber DME
1 lb. light DME
0.5 oz US Fuggle hops AA 5.2%

Potential Alcohol was ~8.5%. I followed the recipe I posted earlier except for swapping out carapils for the torrified wheat and added an extra half gallon juice to give me some racking room. I went with the 120L instead of 60L, as was recommended since I used cheap juice for this trial.

This was my first time brewing grains & hops. It won't be my last! Loved the smell & process. My stove made it surprisingly easy to keep the steeping and boiling process at the right temps.

I can't wait to see how this turns out.


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## seth8530 (Nov 2, 2014)

Good luck, I play with grain from time to time, but I find it to be a boat load of work.


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## strut (Nov 12, 2014)

Well the title of thread isn't true any longer... I pitched my true first mead a few nights ago. I stumbled across a crazy cucumber & jalapeño mead recipe on HomeBrewTalk and had to try it! Just a 1 gallon batch made with cheap clover honey.

I tried a jalapeño wine a while back that was fantastic. I plan on trying a batch of it this winter also.


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## strut (Dec 8, 2014)

The Graff turned out fantastic. So good in fact, it is almost gone already!  I will be making more of this in the very near future. I'll be picking up the cider and DME for the mead batch this weekend.


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