# Need advice from you good ole southeners



## JohnT (Jan 22, 2015)

Sorry to post this here (and not the food forum), but I though I might get better viewership here. 

So, after many years and considerable coaching, I have perfected my fried chicken recipe. My Aunt-in-Law Pat (A northern Georgia peach, may she RIP) showed me and now I have folks just begging for it. 

Long story short, I promised my niece some fried chicken on Sunday. I asked her what side dishes she wanted and she asked me "what do they normally have?". 

I got to tell you, she stumped me on that one. So I put it to you. Help a nice Yankie out. What side dishes do you normally have with a Sunday dinner of fried chicken?

Any advice would be appreciated, but please remember that I live in New Jersey and the stores might not sell traditional things like grits or greens.


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 22, 2015)

A lot of it would depend on the specific location, and the specifics of the family. Working class? Middle class? Farmers? Townpeople? North Carolina (East or West?)? Georgia? Etc. It would be a combination of what is locally and readily available, and what the family's traditions might be. 

In our family, for example, we would always have string beans, black-eyed peas, corn and mashed potatoes. And also almost always, corn bread. 

The string beans would often be from my Great Aunt's farm - I can remember many an afternoon "snapping" them at my grandma's house, a routine that was part of the chores of the kids.

The corn would also be local, either from one of our family farms or just picked up somewhere (I'm from central North Carolina, corn is abundant). We would usually have it served as "creamed corn", meaning cut off the husk and cooked with sugar and cream and butter. I can't remember about where the black-eyed peas came from, but they were a staple, we always seemed to have them. There would be several big pots with these vegetables in them on the stove, you would usually have a little of each. 

I know creamed spinach would also be very common, but I never liked it (I do now, as an adult) so I don't really remember much about eating it back them (I live in NY now, have for many years). 

Corn bread -- speaks for itself, and you should make some. My grandma would also always have hush puppies - look that up! They were delicious the way she made them, in the deep fat fryer. Of course, the only real way to make fried chicken is in a deep fat fryer -- but I don't expect it's done much any more.  

Desserts would typically be an apple pie, maybe a rhubarb pie, or sometimes a peach cobbler. Damn, I loved those cobblers, this is making me hungry! 

When I go home to NC now, my Mom always makes a big meal around fried chicken. It's one of my favorite things. It's nice of you to cook up some for your niece. Save a little for me... 

JAG


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## Deezil (Jan 22, 2015)

While I'm not from the South, one of my best friends is, and with his family being just an extension of my family, I've fallen in love with southern dishes. 

They will not, under any circumstances, give up their collard greens recipe. I've tried for over a decade, they just wont.

Mashed potatoes, corn, collard greens, fried chicken, baked mac and cheese, corn bread.. And good luck making it to dessert! Lol


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## ibglowin (Jan 22, 2015)

Had many a Sunday dinner at my grandparents farm house in South Texas. Large family gatherings.

Absolutely must have mashed potatoes & country gravy made from the drippings. No substitution there.

After that, possibilities include:

Green beans, with bacon crumbles
Collard greens
Turnip greens
Black eyed peas
Squash casserole
Fried okra
Corn or corn on the cob
Glazed carrots


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 22, 2015)

I forgot about collard greens, definitely a common side. Also fried okra, although with us it was not as common (not sure why, maybe seasonal). I remember the first time I saw "boiled okra" - actually in NJ, when I moved north with a girlfriend from there (Exit 52 ha ha). I nearly cried. Boiled okra? Are you nuts? 

Oh, and Texas is not the South.


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## ibglowin (Jan 22, 2015)

We had Okra Gumbo as well. Kinda like Louisiana gumbo without the shrimp or sausage or boudin (tomato based)

Oh and 55,000 Texans died in the Civil War…….. Fighting for the South. 



Just-a-Guy said:


> I forgot about collard greens, definitely a common side. Also fried okra, although with us it was not as common (not sure why, maybe seasonal). I remember the first time I saw "boiled okra" - actually in NJ, when I move north with a girlfriend from there (Exit 52 ha ha). I nearly cried. Boiled okra? Are you nuts?
> 
> Oh, and Texas is not the South.


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## GaDawg (Jan 22, 2015)

Some things may not translate. In the South green beans, string beans, etc. are cooked, not blanched, and corn bread is not sweet!


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## JohnT (Jan 22, 2015)

Thanks folks! 

Ok, so I am thinking.. 

Green Beans, Mac-n-cheese, and corn bread. 

Can I ask if you kind folks have good recipies for mac-n-cheese or corn bread (I like it sweet, but if this is not traditional I will go with unsweet).


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 22, 2015)

Interesting combos - fwiw (which ain't much), I never saw mac-n-cheese as a side dish until I moved North. I do love it, though. Goes to show, there's many different things happening in "the South", many variations. Shall we talk about barbeque? (Hint, in Texas those idjits think barbeque is made from cows.) 

JAG


Edit: John, to be honest, I use Joy of Cooking for most recipes any more. Or the internet. And yeah, corn bread should not be sweet.


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## JohnT (Jan 22, 2015)

Just-a-Guy said:


> Interesting combos - fwiw (which ain't much), I never saw mac-n-cheese as a side dish until I moved North. I do love it, though. Goes to show, there's many different things happening in "the South", many variations. Shall we talk about barbeque? (Hint, in Texas those idjits think barbeque is made from cows.)
> 
> JAG
> 
> ...


 

OK, Change of plan.. 

Green Beans, Mashed potatoes, and cornbread... 

Joy of cooking??? Got to say that this kinda bursts my bubble. I had dreams of old southern family recipies, that were handed down and enjoyed for 100s of years!


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## A2 (Jan 22, 2015)

Just-a-Guy said:


> I forgot about collard greens, definitely a common side. Also fried okra, although with us it was not as common (not sure why, maybe seasonal). I remember the first time I saw "boiled okra" - actually in NJ, when I moved north with a girlfriend from there (Exit 52 ha ha). I nearly cried. Boiled okra? Are you nuts?
> 
> Oh, and Texas is not the South.



You say that like it's a bad thing...

Well I'm a proud Texan who's family comes from the south (Georgia, Mississippi, Arkansas). I also spent a long time cooking commercially. 

Mashed Potatoes - With Gravy
Corn on the Cob very common
Green Bean Casserole 
Mustard Greens (Should not be hard to find)
Cornbread

That's enough to have the "Southern" experience. 

Tea, needs to be sweet, but I hate sweet tea, so your call on that one.


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 22, 2015)

JohnT said:


> OK, Change of plan..
> 
> Green Beans, Mashed potatoes, and cornbread...
> 
> Joy of cooking??? Got to say that this kinda bursts my bubble. I had dreams of old southern family recipies, that were handed down and enjoyed for 100s of years!




Sorry, I realize it's kind of a letdown. Most of this stuff people just make from memory. I could call my Mom and get recipes galore, but her brother just passed away and it's not a great time there. The things you're gonna have as sides are very simple (as it should be). We always have our mashed potatoes very light and fluffy, smashed all to hell. Cornbread is easy. Make sure the string beans (only yankees call them "green beans" are fresh, and make someone snap and string them. 

And don't forget a pie, and some homemade ice tea. 

 

JAG


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 22, 2015)

Austin said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing...
> 
> Well I'm a proud Texan who's family comes from the south (Georgia, Mississippi, Arkansas). I also spent a long time cooking commercially.
> 
> ...




Funny little story - Some years ago, I had a trial in Texas (kind of a big case, lots of publicity). Judge called the case and asked for opening statements. I gave mine, and a former Texas AG for the other side gave theirs. As he stood up, the first thing he said was, "Your Honor, Mr. Just-a-Guy here, he comes down here from New Yo-uck, thinks he can tell this Court what to do!" 

I immediately jumped to my feet, and said, "Objection! Your Honor, I'm from North Carolina!" 

The whole courtroom laughed, and it was easy sailin' from there.

(Well, for lawyers, humor is hard to find....)


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## JohnT (Jan 22, 2015)

Great story guy. 

OK, time for my next question.. 

If you are frying chicken, and have no pan drippings, how do you make your gravy?? Do you use canned chicken stock?


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## GaDawg (Jan 22, 2015)

For a true Southern experience that should be Collard greens and in the South we call it sweet tea (the house wine of the South)


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 22, 2015)

JohnT said:


> If you are frying chicken, and have no pan drippings, how do you make your gravy?? Do you use canned chicken stock?




How are you frying it? If you are doing in a large pan, as I do when here in New Yo-uck, just take some of the oil/misc that's in the pan when you are done cooking the chicken, and put it in the flour and mix it up that way. Another thing that I sometimes do is, take the giblets and chop them and add them in to some of the oil, in a separate pan, and heat that up and use it to make the gravy. I would never use canned chicken stock. Bleh. 

BTW, be sure to wash all this down with a nice, cool glass of Welch's wine!

JAG


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## Deezil (Jan 22, 2015)

I've had gravy made with chicken stock, where you'd never know the difference, but the secret is to start with about 2x as much as you'd need, and reduce it down..

That said, I would deep fry 98% of the chicken, and pan fry a few pieces that you can eat while cooking the rest, to get some goodness in a pan to make gravy with. We feed a lot of people on a tight budget more times than not, so we usually add a little chicken stock to the drippings anyway. Helps to not run out of gravy when folks go back for 2nds, or the take-home plate


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## physics911 (Jan 22, 2015)

Don't forget the nanner pudin' for dessert (Banana pudding). Cobblers are perfectly acceptable, especially if it is rhubarb and strawberry, but you are unlikely to find rhubarb right now. 

Homemade pickles are a nice side too; cucumbers and/or onions. 
You can do a green salad with hot bacon dressing too. Always a big hit. 

As someone already pointed it, it really depends on what you call "southern". As a native son of the Smokey Mountains of NC, I can tell you there are a lot of different parts of the south, each with their own culture and heritage.


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## physics911 (Jan 22, 2015)

Regarding the gravy, how are you going to fry chicken and not end up with drippings? If you want absolutely authentic southern fried chicken, it is shallow-fried in a skillet, not deep fried. This really does make a difference. When done in a skillet you get a little deep brown spot on each piece where it touches the pan, which is ridiculously good, plus you are left with the fond for gravy. 

If you absolutely can't pan fry, fry up some bacon and use the fond from it. 

And if you want to throw a real curve-ball, make sawmill gravy made with cornmeal.


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## DoctorCAD (Jan 22, 2015)

Remember, green beans are just a means to carry the fatback. They take green beans and boil them for hours, until they are mushy and add a big chunk of fatback. Fatback is the part of the bacon everybody north of the Mason-Dixon line throws away. The beans taste like mushy, salty bacon.

And "macaroni and cheese" is technically "a butt-load of cheese with some macaroni in it" The woman that taught my wife how to make macaroni pie said that when you think you have enough cheese in it, double it, and dont forget the huge chunk of butter.

Its a wonder that people that eat like that can live longer than 25 years!


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 22, 2015)

DoctorCAD said:


> Remember, green beans are just a means to carry the fatback. They take green beans and boil them for hours, until they are mushy and add a big chunk of fatback. Fatback is the part of the bacon everybody north of the Mason-Dixon line throws away. The beans taste like mushy, salty bacon.
> 
> And "macaroni and cheese" is technically "a butt-load of cheese with some macaroni in it" The woman that taught my wife how to make macaroni pie said that when you think you have enough cheese in it, double it, and dont forget the huge chunk of butter.
> 
> Its a wonder that people that eat like that can live longer than 25 years!




Dang, this is realllly whetting my appetite! Fatback, bacon, butter... this is why Southerners are such happy people!


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## Steve_M (Jan 22, 2015)

Alright! enough with the food talk!! Just like Guy said getting hungry over here.

But seriously John what I think you should do is have all of us "try" your chicken before you serve it to guests. :I

Also just posted a separate question here.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f20/smoked-brisket-rub-48518/


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## A2 (Jan 22, 2015)

DoctorCAD said:


> Remember, green beans are just a means to carry the fatback. They take green beans and boil them for hours, until they are mushy and add a big chunk of fatback. Fatback is the part of the bacon everybody north of the Mason-Dixon line throws away. The beans taste like mushy, salty bacon.
> 
> And "macaroni and cheese" is technically "a butt-load of cheese with some macaroni in it" The woman that taught my wife how to make macaroni pie said that when you think you have enough cheese in it, double it, and dont forget the huge chunk of butter.
> 
> Its a wonder that people that eat like that can live longer than 25 years!



Those green beans are nasty. We don't do that in Texas. Thankfully. I do love fatback.

Gravy:
2 tablespoon butter
1 heaping tablespoon flour
Salt to taste
Pepper to taste
2 cups milk

Melt butter in pan,add flour, this is your roux. Slightly brown it, do not burn it. Add milk slowly stirring with a whisk. 

Bring to boil, then turn down, allowing to simmer for at least 10 minutes. Gravy will thicken upon cooling.


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## JohnT (Jan 22, 2015)

ihave a 24 inch diameter cast iron skillet, so i go with the pan fried method. like mentioned before, i really like that brown spot where the chicken touches the bottom of the pan..


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## rawatts (Jan 22, 2015)

@gadawg ; got relatives all over n ga. hiram,dallas. and we cook beans until they fall part and sugar in cornbread is a cardinal sin


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## GaDawg (Jan 22, 2015)

Those green beans are nasty. We don't do that in Texas.
*************************
Thats one reason we call ya'll western and not Southern


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## JohnT (Jan 23, 2015)

Would a cold, creamy potato salad (instead of mashed potatoes) be acceptable?


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## A2 (Jan 23, 2015)

GaDawg said:


> Those green beans are nasty. We don't do that in Texas.
> *************************
> Thats one reason we call ya'll western and not Southern



Which is odd because Texas considers itself Texas. South, Southwest? Meh. Texas. 

We're a unique cultural blend, and one that I don't think would work in other states, northern,southern, western or eastern. 



JohnT said:


> Would a cold, creamy potato salad (instead of mashed potatoes) be acceptable?



Yes please. I need a new recipe. I use my Grandmother's, which I love, but I would like another.


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 23, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Would a cold, creamy potato salad (instead of mashed potatoes) be acceptable?



I'm kinda cringing at that... I mean, if it was a light lunch thing, and you were serving the chicken cold (which is perfectly fine), ok, maybe. But even then, potato salads are so varied, hard to say. I wouldn't consider this a "Southern" thing so much as just a general American food. 

Mashed potatoes are such a fundamental part of eating fried chicken, I don't think you should skimp out on that, unless you genuinely just don't like mashed potatoes (what are you, a Communist or something?). 

And Austin - I've actually spent a lot of time in Texas and absolutely love it there. (I have five pair of Luccheses, three of which I bought in Texas). I'm a member of the federal Bar there, and have friends all over the State (have practiced with some Texas "big names"). I love teasing Texas. But I totally agree, it's not "the South" or the "West" or anything else - it's Texas. When I was there a lot, I remember people always saying, "Texas is not a state, it's four states." Or maybe five. 

Still, barbeque is NOT made from cows! I'll stand by that. 

JAG


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## JohnT (Jan 23, 2015)

I make a KILLER potato salad... 

Most potato salads taste like the potatoes are undercooked. Yuk! 

I had this type of salad in Ireland and have been making it ever since. It has a creamy, but still soft/chunky texture and "lots of veggies" to also give you a cool crunch. 

Take 5 pounds of potatoes. Peel and boil them until a knife slides easily into them with very little resistance. 

drain into a colander and allow to cool (in the colander) for about 30 minutes. 

into a bowl I mix.. 

1 - 2 large sweet onions (diced) 
5 - 6 stalks of celery (diced) 
1 large bell pepper (diced) 
5-6 dill pickles (diced) 
several splashes of white vinegar
1/2 cup of dill pickle juice (right from the jar) 
Salt and fresh cracked black pepper

mix and let sit while potatoes drain and are cool enough to handle. 

Add potatoes into the bowl. 
Add a generous squirt of yellow mustard over the potatoes. 

Add mayo in stages until you have the right consistency. As you mix, be aggressive and smash the potatoes a bit as you go. You are trying to get to a "very lumpy mashed potato" consistency that is a little bit on the loose side. If too loose, do not worry. The salad will tighten up in the fridge. 

Give it a taste. If still a bit bland, add another shot of vinegar. 

cover and place in fridge overnight. 

cool, creamy, and crunchy!


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## GaDawg (Jan 23, 2015)

rawatts said:


> sugar in cornbread is a cardinal sin


We always called that Yankee cornbread


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 23, 2015)

GaDawg said:


> We always called that Yankee cornbread




Con-bred.



(adding this parenthetical because the stupid board doesn't like short posts...Hemingway would be appalled.)


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## sour_grapes (Jan 23, 2015)

Just-a-Guy said:


> Con-bred.



I read this as just how a Southerner would (non-rhotically) say "corn bread."


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 23, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> I read this as just how a Southerner would (non-rhotically) say "corn bread."




No no no. That's how a New Jersey-ite would say it. A Southerner would say "Co-urhn bray-uhd."


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## sour_grapes (Jan 23, 2015)

Just-a-Guy said:


> No no no. That's how a New Jersey-ite would say it. A Southerner would say "Co-urhn bray-uhd."



A northern Jerseyan, you mean. I come from the ONLY area of the East Coast to have a rhotic dialect. (Mid-Atlantic, basically Baltimore to Trenton.)


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## tonyt (Jan 23, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Thanks folks!
> 
> Ok, so I am thinking..
> 
> ...



No No No
if you're not going to have mashed taters & gravy (brown or white not red) don't have fried chicken.


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## tonyt (Jan 23, 2015)

Oh JohnT when you serve the mashed taters (you will be serving mashed taters) be sure to make a well in the middle of them to fill with either kernel corn or sweet peas.


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## JohnT (Jan 23, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> A northern Jerseyan, you mean. I come from the ONLY area of the East Coast to have a rhotic dialect. (Mid-Atlantic, basically Baltimore to Trenton.)



acutally, it's jerseyman... even the women are Jerseymen.

OK, you convinced me. Mashed taters, corn and gravely it is!


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## Kraffty (Jan 23, 2015)

I doubt this is truly southern but it's good and this recipe and same box design have been around for generations.

http://www.alberscorn.com/recipes/cornmeal/AlbersCornBread.aspx

The one thing I do suggest is use a 10" cast iron skillet. Preheat it with about a tablespoon of oil for 30 mins then swirl the oil and dump the cornbread batter in and throw back in the oven. Gives the Cornbread a great crisp crust.
Sounds like a fun dinner coming up.
Mike


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## GaDawg (Jan 23, 2015)

True Southern corn bread is made of milk or butter milk, egg, Crisco, and corn meal and made it an iron skillet.


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## A2 (Jan 24, 2015)

Before we would go camping as kids we would make cornbread (Our parents would) and load it up with cheese, corn, peppers, you name it, little chunks of ham even. It was an awesome portable lunch for hiking. 

No sugar in that though.


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## Rodnboro (Jan 24, 2015)

Well John T you let me down on New York restaurant suggestions in another thread, however I'll help you out here. You can't go wrong with mashed potatoes, fried okra, green beans (also called snap beans down here), creamed corn, and corn bread. A tip for you: I didn't read all posts but frying the chicken in cast iron will make a world of difference. Just kidding about NYC. We had great food and a nice trip.


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## GaDawg (Jan 24, 2015)

Another tip Marinate the chicken in buttermilk!


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## jamesjr (Jan 24, 2015)

Im from florida and we eat fried chicken with biscuits. Real home made biscuits. black eyed peas with mayo. Mac and cheese not out the box. But I got to tell u. If u serve fried chicken around here it dont even matter on the side. And chicken thighs is my favorite


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## jswordy (Jan 27, 2015)

Hahahaha, I am loving this "true Southern" talk from GaDawg. The sweetest cornbread I have ever had - and man was it good - was in Virginia (uhhh, Capital of the Confederacy? Yep, THAT Virginia.)

But then I moved from VA to southern TN and everyone here always asks me "Whad y'all do up North?"

(BTW, that's not a TRUE Southern way of spelling y'all, but it is the grammatically correct way to do it. The Southern way is ya'll.)

Now, collard greens - That is Southern. Mmm...

Just goes to show that there are as many variations in the South as there are different "Southern accents." But in general, old-time Southern cooking is basic and simple. Making it taste awesome with simple ingredients is the challenge, as any great Southern cook knows.

I also loved the green bean casserole comment - that dish is actually an invention of Kraft Foods Test Kitchens.

Y'all come see us!


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## JohnT (Jan 27, 2015)

jswordy said:


> Hahahaha, I am loving this "true Southern" talk from GaDawg. The sweetest cornbread I have ever had - and man was it good - was in Virginia (uhhh, Capital of the Confederacy? Yep, THAT Virginia.)
> 
> But then I moved from VA to southern TN and everyone here always asks me "Whad y'all do up North?"
> 
> ...


 

The one thing that I always wondered is just why you southern folks are hard of hearing...

Ya'll com back now *ya hear*?


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## jswordy (Jan 27, 2015)

JohnT said:


> The one thing that I always wondered is just why you southern folks are hard of hearing...
> 
> Ya'll com back now *ya hear*?



I don't think that is a common or traditional Southern utterance, but rather is a country music/Grand Ole Opry saying and was also used commercially in the 40s or 50s.

Here are three true Southern salutations at the end of a visit:

*Ya'll come see us!

Ya'll come back!

Ya'll come with us!* (Don't take this literally! They are saying they enjoyed the time spent with you. They don't want you tagging along.)

As long as we're on it, my favorite Southern saying and it's meanings are below:

*Well bless your heart!* (I completely understand and sympathize.)

*Well bless your heart!* (You are a complete and total fool and/or idiot.)

*Well bless your heart! *(You have talked far too long. Shut up.)

With this phrase, it is necessary to read the speaker's face to decipher the intent. Many a Yankee has been insulted to his or her face in a group of Southerners by a well-placed, "Well bless your heart!" Failing to see how the speaker exchanged a raptor-like look with his or her fellow Southerners when saying it, the Yankee takes it as a compliment. Ummm, not quite!

BTW, a Yankee is generally anyone who is not from the Confederate States of America by birth. It is generally not possible to live in the South long enough to become a Southerner. And there are two kinds of Yankees here - Yankees and damned Yankees. Yankees come to visit; damned Yankees stay.


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## Just-a-Guy (Jan 28, 2015)

Not bad. One thing, though. "Ya'll" is singular. For the plural form, it's "all ya'll".


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## A2 (Jan 28, 2015)

*Well bless your heart!* (You are a complete and total fool and/or idiot.) - My Family

*Well bless your heart!* (I completely understand and sympathize.) - My wife's family. 

Things can get tricky.


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