# Trellis Posts



## PortersCove

I am getting ready to trellis about 200 vines. Opinions on using 8 ft t-posts vs. wooden posts? Also anyone in western PA know any good distributors to get posts from as most retailers are about 7.50 to 8 bucks a post. We will be expanding the vineyard rapidly in the next few years so if we have to order a lot of posts that wouldn't be a problem to get a good price. 
Thanks!
Josh


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## BobR

Wow Josh....200 plants! With that many plants, I should be getting expert advice from you. What few plants I do have, I like using a 6 inch wood end post with a 4 inch support post every four plants. I know that this is extreme, but I also like to throw in an 8 foot t-post every so often for extra support. On my original rows, I put an 8 foot t-post at every grape plant. Needless to say, it cost too much to continue that pratice, but I only have 60 plants, so it's not your 200. I have two farm stores that are close to me, so I usually wait for one of them to have one of their 10 or 15% off store wide sales and I'll go over and buy what I need. I need a few posts now, but as much as they have gone up in price, I hate to buy them at full price. From time to time they will also run a post sale on the wood and metal t-post. Good luck and I'm sure that as soon as "The Grapeman" has time to respond, he will give you some darn good solid advice.


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## BobR

Josh,

Does not look like you had any takers on your post question. I have never ordered from them, so I can not tell you anything about them, but Orchard Valley Supply is out in NC and according to their website, they sell posts by the truck load. Around here, a 6" x 8' treated wood post is close to $15 and a 4" x 8' treated post is a couple of dollars less. Eight foot metal t-posts are in the mid $6 range. 

Other than that, how is the vineyard coming along? Have any heavy rain from tropical storm Sandy, or where you too far west?



We supply a variety of vineyard post types: Southern Yellow Pine, Lodgepole Pine, Red Pine. For vineyard posts to be economical, you need to buy a full truck load (800-1,200 posts) or split a truckload with others in the area. See our Post Brackets for an easy way of attaching posts. 

Call for pricing 

http://www.orchardvalleysupply.com/ovsstore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3&idcategory=9


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## grapeman

Posts are always a large expense no matter how you go. You need a good solid post at the end of the rows no matter what. Check with the vineyards in your area to get ideas what they use and sometimes you can find a cheaper suppliuer locally for those posts. Wooden posts even treated can rot after a few years, so don't get the cheaper lasdscape timber type that are flat on 2 sides. I put some in and they rot off in 3-5 years. 
T-posts can work, but stay away from the cheap ones- they can bend easily and might not hold up. 

I was lucky enough to get some good heavy 8-9 foot cedar posts for $3 a few years ago and am looking for a good cheap source for another 6-800 of them for the new vineyard.

Good luck in the search and remember in a pinch you can even use 4x4 treated square posts.


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## UBB

I'm using 8x10 treated end posts cemented in and 4x7 line posts. My rows are 300 foot runs so I hope I'll be ok. I've yet to have a full load on any of the wires so we'll see.


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## BobR

I had some bad luck with the 4x4 treated square posts. Had serveral bow real bad on me and I had one in line 4x4 that just split and broke in half. I've been told round ones are stronger, since it has something to do with the growth rings of the tree, where on the square post the growth rings are cut. And on the round post, if one is not exactly in line, it's not as noticable. Then there are those who claim that the square post is a lot stronger than the round. Once I started having trouble with my 4x4 posts, I pulled them out and went with the 4" round in line posts and so far, I have not had any problems.
I wouldn't think that an 8x10 would give you much trouble. Now that's a nice sized post!


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## spaniel

I have had good luck with treated 4X4s, but they are only 5 years in and I only have 10 vine rows. I'm thinking of putting in a 20 vine row this year and if I do, I will find something heavier.

I have had heavy loads on a few of these rows and so far the only damage has been a hurricane force wind slightly bending two of the light steel Lowes fenceposts I used in between every third vine, on the windward row. I think with a longer row I will used the 4X4s for the spaced verticals and drill them to run the wire through.


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## grapeman

I don't recommend drilling through the posts. As they rot out and need replacement, it is a real PITA to deal with wires running through the posts. Use a fence staple and then when the post needs replacing, just pull the staples out to replace the post, install the new post, staple back up and you are done. When driving the staples, leave them just a bit loose on the wires so the wire slides through the staple as needed.


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## spaniel

grapeman said:


> I don't recommend drilling through the posts. As they rot out and need replacement, it is a real PITA to deal with wires running through the posts. Use a fence staple and then when the post needs replacing, just pull the staples out to replace the post, install the new post, staple back up and you are done. When driving the staples, leave them just a bit loose on the wires so the wire slides through the staple as needed.



I should have been more clear...I was going to slot the post at the top of the hole on the upwind side, so the wire can be slid in and out. Even easier than pulling a staple!


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## grapeman

How deep in do you make the hole? If you slot to it and it is too far in it will weaken the post.


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## Runningwolf

Josh, are you getting your vines from Double A ? If not I suggest you look into them as it's less than a three hour drive for you. You could contact them and ask for a suggestion or call North East Fruit Growers in North East and check their prices. They usually have large piles of them. With the early end to harvest vineyards are already getting a head start on replacing old posts.


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## spaniel

grapeman said:


> How deep in do you make the hole? If you slot to it and it is too far in it will weaken the post.



The slot would be above where the wire would sit once popped in. The weight of the vines would keep it down once it is in there....gravity would stress the post below, not above. The strength of the post above the wire is therefore not a concern. Imagine a hole through the center of a post, and a saw cut angling down from above to the top 10 o'clock position.


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## GreginND

I would think that slot would be a collection point for water and lead to rot. Perhaps I'm not envisioning it properly.


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## spaniel

GreginND said:


> I would think that slot would be a collection point for water and lead to rot. Perhaps I'm not envisioning it properly.



It's a treated post. It's no more a collection point than the hole drilled through my endposts where the tensioner is inserted. I mean theoretically, you could staple the wire to the top of a post the correct height. The top part above the wire is meaningless from a practical standpoint.


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## K-9

sorry for the quick post - have to work. I have the square posts that I got at TSC. I got a few warped ones for 1/2 price or so. I did drill through them because the weight of the vines can be tons and i figured staples were less durable and pounding in on posts that were less than the desired depth would cause more issues. the wire going through the post would add more direct downward force than the side of it.

also I did research and the posts that are marked MCG are the best and are less toxic and apparently organic certified from what i get. I did contact the company too. MCA are apparently also acceptable. the micronized copper used in the treating of the posts become inert with contact of the soil.

the rounds are nice and may not twist which some of mine are doing but no big deal but they are TOXIC. they are what i wanted. redwood ones I had years ago lasted so long and were hard to get and very expensive. cedar - not available either.


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