# Fermented muscadine seeds



## DavidB (Nov 9, 2010)

What's the chances a seed that went through fermentation would grow? I have put some in the freezer because I think you are suppose to mimic the winter cycle before planting. Was thinking about starting several from seeds next year. Really like several varieties of the grapes we picked this year and wanted to start my own vines. Suggestions?


----------



## Wade E (Nov 9, 2010)

I kn ow someone who this happened to with another varietal that really should not have grown in his area at all so anything is possible. I think they were actually seeds from a Cellar Craft grape skin kit wine!


----------



## DavidB (Nov 9, 2010)

Thanks Wade. I think I'm going to give it a go. If they don't, I might be able to spare one or two grapes from the freezer that haven't fermented yet. I just really don't like "wasting" the skins and seeds once fermented. I feel guilty that I'm throwing all that out. Just seems there should be some other uses for it so I don't feel so bad.


----------



## Julie (Nov 9, 2010)

DavidB said:


> What's the chances a seed that went through fermentation would grow? I have put some in the freezer because I think you are suppose to mimic the winter cycle before planting. Was thinking about starting several from seeds next year. Really like several varieties of the grapes we picked this year and wanted to start my own vines. Suggestions?



David,

I talked to this guy who has a degree in horticultture and he said that fermentation should not effect the seeds. We are thinking of grafting some to concord because our winters are too severe for muscadine roots.


----------



## bigwheel (Nov 9, 2010)

if you can find the vine ends bury in the ground ti usally takes a root annd separate the next fall we do this with muscadines and scuppernong vines


----------



## DavidB (Nov 9, 2010)

Julie said:


> David,
> 
> I talked to this guy who has a degree in horticultture and he said that fermentation should not effect the seeds. We are thinking of grafting some to concord because our winters are too severe for muscadine roots.



Julie,

Thanks! I hope to plant several of the varieties from the vineyard that Eddie took you too. I've got some of each but the Noble are my favorites. They are just wonderful for wine and eating too. You should try them in milkshakes, muffins, cakes and ice cream and and and !!!! OMG are they good!

How's your batches going?


----------



## Julie (Nov 10, 2010)

DavidB said:


> Julie,
> 
> Thanks! I hope to plant several of the varieties from the vineyard that Eddie took you too. I've got some of each but the Noble are my favorites. They are just wonderful for wine and eating too. You should try them in milkshakes, muffins, cakes and ice cream and and and !!!! OMG are they good!
> 
> How's your batches going?



Yes Noble is my favorite as well, I have 10g of noble and 10g of reds all fermenting away very nicely. My husband is thinking of starting some of the seeds and then graffing them to our concord and see how that works.


----------



## JordanPond (Nov 10, 2010)

Wine kits go thru a pasteurization process or similar to stabilize the product for storage and shipping, yes? Would that have an impact on a seeds ability to germinate?


----------



## grapeman (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't want to discourage anyone from trying, but............
Crosses of any seed are a hybridization, meaning they have two parents. This results in offspring that are unlike either parent. So when you plant a grape from one variety the result is not like that parent. This is the same principal as people or any other animal or plant. No two individuals are the same. Nobe grapes are grown from noble vines, not the seeds as are virtually all vines.

All that said, it can be interesting to plant the seeds and see what you get. I get hundreds of little vines coming up every year and a few of them actually have grown to a few feet long after 3-4 years. You never can tell, you may get a useable grapevine some day.


----------



## DavidB (Nov 10, 2010)

Grapeman, please excuse me for being dense. It's one of my bad traits. But are you saying that if I plant noble seeds by themselves, I won't get a vine that produces Noble grapes? or was this directed at what Julie was going to try with the cross breeding? I'm so confused!

And no, I haven't been in the wine this morning. But I haven't had my coffee either!


----------



## grapeman (Nov 10, 2010)

What I am saying is that if you plant seeds from Noble grapes, you will not get Noble vines to grow. Even if the vine pollinated itself, the seeds will not be true to type. The only way to get the same variety is by propagation from pieces of itself which can be very hard with some varieties. 

Julie is talking about grafting, not cross breeding. She just wants to grow some vines from seeds and then graft onto Concord. Even for her it would be best to get some scion wood from the vines she likes and then graft them on. There is no way of knowing what the seeds are she got.


----------



## DavidB (Nov 10, 2010)

Okay so I think my mind just exploded. Again, please excuse my ignorance. 

You plant a seed that you took from a noble grape, but you wont get a noble vine from that seedling? You get a muscadine vine, but maybe not noble? 

Did I completely miss what you said?


----------



## jtstar (Nov 10, 2010)

What Grapeman is trying to say is that if you want a true Noble grape vine then you need to take a cutting from that vine and not use the grape seeds because the seeds have been pollinated with wild pollen which will produce a new type of off spring not a true Noble grape vine


----------



## grapeman (Nov 10, 2010)

DavidB
Noble grapes are a variety of grapes not a species. Seeds from Noble grapes do not contain the identical genes as the Noble vine. All Noble grapes are basically clones of the one original vine. The seeds from them are a combination of the female vine (the one the seeds came from-Noble) and the male parent- just like any other living thing. Therefore the seeds are not going to grow into a vine like the Noble parent. Do you look identical to either one of your parents? Probably similar, but not alike.

jtstar sums it up well.


----------



## grapeman (Nov 10, 2010)

Here is some more information on the propagation of muscadine vines.

*Propagation*

In the wild, muscadine grapes are propagated sexually from seed and asexually by a natural tendency of shoots that make contact with the ground to form roots. Muscadine grapes are very easy to propagate asexually. Asexual propagation produces a plant that is genetically identical to the mother plant. Propagation from seed will produce plants that vary genetically and that are not true to type. The most common propagation method is to make 2- to 3-node-long cuttings from shoots 1/4 to 3/8 inches in diameter in June or July. Simply insert the basal end of the cutting in a light textured soil or potting media. Keep the roots and leaves moist until roots have formed (usually about 2 weeks). A mist bed can be inexpensively constructed for this purpose. The buds in the leaf axils will break and form shoots shortly thereafter. Dipping the basal ends of the cuttings in Rootone® or other formulations of napthelene acetic acid can enhance rooting percentages, but is not required. 
Another method to asexually propagate muscadine grapes is called pegging. To use this method, wound a low growing shoot by making successive cuts in the bark and then cover it with moist soil. Leave the shoot tip exposed. After about a month, roots should have formed, and the shoot may be severed from the mother vine. Pegging can be done in the summer months and is most useful to propagate a few vines. For mass propagation, stem cuttings are preferable. Virtually hundreds of cuttings can be rooted from a single mother vine.


----------



## DavidB (Nov 10, 2010)

Excellent! I think I now understand. Thank you all for your patience as I learn all this. 

As I understand it now, I can plant a seed and probably get a noble Muscadine vine, but it won't be an exact match to the parent vine. That's okay with me. As long as it taste good, has juice for wine and produces remotely close to what the parent vines are doing, I think I'll be happy. 

Again, thanks for everyone’s explanation.


----------



## Sirs (Nov 10, 2010)

from my understanding if you want noble grapes you'll need to get a cutting from the vine and go from there, at least thats what Gwen has found out as like he said with the seed there's no telling what muscadine you'll get to grow


----------



## DavidB (Nov 10, 2010)

Was Bamby eating muscadines when you shot him yesterday? LOL!!!


----------



## JordanPond (Nov 10, 2010)

Very interesting. My day is complete as I have learned something new.


----------



## Sirs (Nov 10, 2010)

DavidB said:


> Was Bamby eating muscadines when you shot him yesterday? LOL!!!



nope he was taking a stroll along the creek here at the house


----------

