# fortyfying wine with Liquers



## corinth (Nov 30, 2014)

Hi all,
Having tried making a fortified "port style" Syrah,
I got to thinking. Has anyone used other liqueurs to fortify or add flavor to their wines.
example: Chambord
Grand Marnier
Midori
Or any others?
I looked at Danger Dave's use of berries in vodka and that looks very inviting.
I have made several types of limoncello and crema di Limoncello and other fruits but...back to the original question?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Corinth


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## ColemanM (Nov 30, 2014)

How did the fortified Syrah turn out?


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## corinth (Nov 30, 2014)

*fortyfying-wine-liquers-47864/#post542176*

Hi ,
It is in the aging process. I t was my first try so I used Hennessy VSOP brandy. I will let you know in a few months, like 6?
thanks for asking
Corinth


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 30, 2014)

corinth
You virtually can do almost anything you want - just think outside the box as Joe would say -
vodka or everclear to the possible following 
vanilla beans 
coffee beans 
oak chips
any type of fruit
you just made a concentrate and add it slowly or use to test to see how it would taste like and adjust accordingly


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## corinth (Nov 30, 2014)

*/fortyfying-wine-liquers-47864/*

Hi again,
You took the words right out of my mouth,"think ouside the box."
I guess my problem here is I would like someone to share a basic recipe type in which they used liquers to see how they did it, by doing what, how much?
If there a wine of any type that someone did take one of other liqueurs and 

I was looking at dangerdave's recipe and that looked interesting but there was no "brand name " liqueur added(not that there has to be). I have looked through through many threads and did a fair amount of "Goggling"' but nothings really stands out. Maybe I am being Myoptic.

Looking for a starting point
Thanks for responding "vacuumpump" man. Hope you son gets that scholarship!
Regards
Corinth.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 30, 2014)

corinth said:


> Hi again,
> You took the words right out of my mouth,"think ouside the box."
> I guess my problem here is I would like someone to share a basic recipe type in which they used liquers to see how they did it, by doing what, how much?
> If there a wine of any type that someone did take one of other liqueurs and
> ...



Thank you !

Try these threads - 
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f61/making-fpac-44497/

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/when-good-wines-gone-bad-14483/


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## cintipam (Nov 30, 2014)

Steve, I make a lot of extracts a la Joe. When I was talking w my hubby I commented I wanted to try to make my own oak extract with everclear he freaked out. Apparently what it will make is not safe for consumption. Since then I've nosed around and most folks just boil the chips in water and use the water like an extract. Can't give you the particulars, but please anybody who is considering doing oak extract check with a science guy to make sure it is safe first.

Pam in cinti


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## corinth (Dec 1, 2014)

*fortyfying-wine-liquers-47864/#post542216*

Hi all,
I am still open to all suggestions but I have taken a whole bunch of notes on joe's technigues and I had an aha moment.

soooooooooooooo, I went out today in the rain and bought a whole bunch of fresh fruit, some Everclear, a Latino equivilent and some other stuff.

I will be busy but any further ideas, i am still listening!

thank you,
corinth


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## richmke (Dec 1, 2014)

cintipam said:


> When I was talking w my hubby I commented I wanted to try to make my own oak extract with everclear he freaked out. Apparently what it will make is not safe for consumption.



Soaking wine making oak in everclear? How is that any different from Whisky aging in a barrel?

FYI: Everclear itself is not safe for consumption. A lot of kids dying from drinking too concentrated alcohol. You can get a lethal dose before you know it.


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## cintipam (Dec 1, 2014)

Hi richmke

I agree with your logic. I honestly hope my hubby is wrong, but until someone with a good chemistry background assures me that it is safe I think I'll go along with his warning. Maybe it was the everclear he was reacting to, don't know. But when I did a lot of googling about making oak essence I pretty much only found that folks boiled oak chips in water to make an infusion that they added to wine.

Oh Seth! Or anybody else that knows this stuff. Please chime in with a real answer here.

Pam in cinti


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## seth8530 (Dec 1, 2014)

Hiya,

Our friendly VacPumpMan buzzed me about this thread, so I decided to give it a look.

I am an engineer not a chemist, but I will go ahead and throw my thoughts into the hat.

I know that you can make methanol from wood via destructive distillation and some other processes as well. But it does not appear to me to be something that can be done without the serious intent of doing it. However, to be the best of my knowledge wood does not contain methanol. However, this is where I believe this possibly where this association might have came from.

Check this out.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8728103_make-methanol-wood.html

Now onward to some more practical thoughts, fine spirits such as bourbon and scotch are aged in wooden barrels at high proofs, so this leads me to believe that their should be nothing to worry about pulling methanol from wood even if it did exist in an alcohol soluble form in wood.

Pretty much agree?


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 1, 2014)

Thanks Seth - 
I really appreciate you stepping in and answering the best you can. I did not want to step in and tell someone the wrong way to do something without asking some questions first.

That is why I like this forum soo much !!


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## seth8530 (Dec 1, 2014)

Yup np, nothing to do but to do our best.


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## cintipam (Dec 1, 2014)

Guys, thank you so much for putting my mind to rest. In mean, we've been married a long time, so I kinda was willing to accept it until I got absolute OK from a source I trusted. And honestly the timing is super as I just ordered a bunch of diff types of oak looking to educate my palate a bit. Now I can make extracts and try the same wine with diff oaks. I feel I'll get a better handle on oak, and will wind up with far better wine than just guessing which will prob be best in my big reds.

Seriously, I am excited about this project now. Thanks again.

Pam in cinti


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## richmke (Dec 2, 2014)

cintipam said:


> until I got absolute OK from a source I trusted.



"Extract is produced commercially by steeping oak in alcohol, "
http://beer-wine.com/node/1856

They do sell both Oak Extract (alcohol based), and Oak Essence (steam extraction).
http://beer-wine.com/products/oak-extract-sinatin-17
http://beer-wine.com/products/oak-essence-4oz


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## wineforfun (Dec 2, 2014)

richmke said:


> Soa
> 
> FYI: Everclear itself is not safe for consumption.



Going to have to disagree with this statement. We have done(in our younger years) 1/2 shots of 190 poof everclear. As with anything, it is safe in strict moderation.

I do agree that yes, many kids/people take in a lethal dose thinking it drinks like vodka, etc.

corinth,
It sounds like you are trying to make an infused type liquor, and then add it to an ageing wine, is this correct?


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## Rocky (Dec 2, 2014)

Wow, Corinth! Hennessey VSOP! Utter profligacy! 

You don't do things half way, do you? I have only made a couple of bottles of Port and I flavored it with Christian Brothers Brandy. My Hennessey VSOP is for sipping, slightly warmed, after a great meal. 

I am envious!


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 2, 2014)

You should try it Rocky.


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## spaniel (Dec 2, 2014)

I am not an engineer but I am a biochemist. Nothing harmful will come of soaking oak in alcohol to make an extract.


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## Rocky (Dec 2, 2014)

vacuumpumpman said:


> You should try it Rocky.



Can't afford it, Steve. All my money is tied up in debt. We are so poor...

Anyway, back to the original question, i.e. whether one could flavor a Port with liquors. I have learned over my many years that just about anything can be done. Whether it is done successfully or not is another question. Regarding liquors, which normally have an ABV of 25% (50 Proof), it seems to me one would need a lot of liquor to raise the ABV of the Port resulting in a Port that tastes more like a watered down liquor.

That being said, I am a proponent of the Edisonian method, i.e. "Try it and see what happens. If it does not work out just right, try something else."


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## seth8530 (Dec 2, 2014)

spaniel said:


> I am not an engineer but I am a biochemist. Nothing harmful will come of soaking oak in alcohol to make an extract.



Even better than an engineer then.


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## corinth (Dec 2, 2014)

*fortyfying-wine-liquers*

Thank you Rocky,
I appreciate your response. I lucked out with a coupon and a gift card or I would not even gone there.

I am going to look up my notes on what Joe has stated with FPAC's, extracts, and in the primary versus in the secondary and some final additions.

I will also go back to the port threads and look around around a bit.

Then again Rocky, maybe (since you are a Pirates fan) and I am a Dodger fan, 
I am waiting to see what ideas you have or anyone else concerning the use of tequilla as a fortifier? I hope I am not going to end up empty handed like the Dodgers did when John Candalaria no hit us in 1976?

Tequilla anyone?
Corinth
PS: wineforfun: actually , I am just tinkering about but what ever you suggest , I am game!


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## wineforfun (Dec 2, 2014)

Really no ideas here my friend, just inquiring. 
I know rayway on here has done some infusing with different fruits, etc.


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## ColemanM (Dec 2, 2014)

Very good point Rocky, about the 25% ABV. I feel it would not be a good "fortifier" but an excellent enhancement. Say a blackberry liquor adding depth to a shallow blueberry port? 
Corinth, I actually had a sipping tequila on thanksgiving at my uncle in-laws house. Tequila reserve 1800. I think this would actually lend a very interesting note to a port. Interesting as in maybe a "hmmm interesting". Not sure if the agave is a friend to the grape.


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## sleepyemt (Dec 3, 2014)

Can anyone help on why my post was deleted?
Pm is fine...

Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## grapeman (Dec 4, 2014)

sleepyemt said:


> Can anyone help on why my post was deleted?
> Pm is fine...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


 

For anyone wondering about this we cannot allow discussion of any type of distillation on this forum. Fractional distillation or freeze distilling is included in this. We have to follow the rules of the state the forum is in and they don't allow it. Sorry for any inconvenience and it is nothing personal.


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## the_rayway (Dec 4, 2014)

I've done a bit of making homemade 'liqueurs' using vodka, brandy and rum (40-50%). Homemade vanilla, pear-vanilla, blueberry, banana, mock-Kahlua, etc. If you're patient, you can come up with something pretty special. My blueberry and the pear-vanilla are some of the best liqueurs I've ever had. My sis-in-law LOVES the mock-kahlua. My husband likes to pour some of my vanilla on the rocks or with a splash of pepsi for an evening drink.

They can really add some depth to your wines, and flavour, especially if you use good quality ingredients. I've used the blueberry to flavour a blueberry-lambrusca wine (not fortify), and am thinking to make a new batch of the pear-vanilla to flavour a pear wine or mead that I'm thinking about.

Fortifying-wise, I've recently done a Banana Bochet Port (Deezil's recipe as a base) where I soaked several pounds of bananas in some E&J VSOP for a couple of months with a couple of vanilla beans, then used the infused brandy to fortify the banana bochet. it's looking to be something pretty special already. In my opinion, you really will want to use a stronger % alcohol if you're fortifying, otherwise you will end up with a 'weak liqueur' instead of a 'strong port-style'.

Haven't used tequila...yet.


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## sleepyemt (Dec 4, 2014)

grapeman said:


> For anyone wondering about this we cannot allow discussion of any type of distillation on this forum. Fractional distillation or freeze distilling is included in this. We have to follow the rules of the state the forum is in and they don't allow it. Sorry for any inconvenience and it is nothing personal.




My apologies, I thought the same rules applied here as on Hbt. Nothing personal taken. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## sleepyemt (Dec 4, 2014)

Double post


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## JohnT (Dec 4, 2014)

cintipam said:


> Hi richmke
> 
> I agree with your logic. I honestly hope my hubby is wrong, but until someone with a good chemistry background assures me that it is safe I think I'll go along with his warning. Maybe it was the everclear he was reacting to, don't know. But when I did a lot of googling about making oak essence I pretty much only found that folks boiled oak chips in water to make an infusion that they added to wine.
> 
> ...


 

Why do you need oak extract? Just add the oak to what you are making and wait a bit. IMHO, it will taste better then using any extract.


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## Arne (Dec 10, 2014)

Anybody ever try making a hot (alcohol wise) sugar wine or maybe apple and use it to get the flavors out of the oak or whatever. You could blend with that and keep things down in the wine type of abv. Just thinkin about it. Arne.


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## WellingtonToad (Jan 2, 2015)

Not quite on subject, but I'll throw it in anyway.

I made a traditional Shiraz(Syrah) Port in 2014, from grapes. Unfortunately, Not enough spirit to stop ferment, and it continued until Baume was 3 (measured). 
Too dry for my likes.

To remedy the situation, I added some Ribena. To see whether others liked my concoction I entered it in a local wine show and came away with a Gold medal.

As for the extraction of oak with alcohol, best results can be obtained at 60% alcohol (120 proof).

I agree with others though, just add it into whatever you want the oak flavour in.


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