# everything about tannin



## keena (Jul 26, 2012)

I got a few questions about tannin. I titled it all about tannin so other new ppl searching could find the thread in the future. 

1. What wines need tannin, and how do you know if your wine needs tannin?

2. What does tannin do to wine? How does it change the taste?

3. How much tannin should one add when adding it?

4. What's the difference between the types of tannin?

5. How do you add it? (boil first or just sprinkle on)

6. What will happen if I never add tannin to any wines? Will it ruin some if them?


Sorry if the questions over lap a bit but I searched for my questions and couldn't find a thread that really describes tannin completely.

also I made a 1 gallon batch of peach mango wine with peach puree and mango puree and a can of white grape concentrate (and nutrient, acid blend, and pectic enzyme). any suggestions to how much tannin to add to this wine if any?


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## olusteebus (Jul 26, 2012)

Glad you asked the question. I am sure some will give a lot of insight. I am not sure I added tannin to my skeeter pee. A little info here will help me allso.


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## tonyt (Jul 26, 2012)

olusteebus said:


> Glad you asked the question. I am sure some will give a lot of insight. I am not sure I added tannin to my skeeter pee. A little info here will help me allso.



Me too. Come on guys and gals, weigh in.


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## ibglowin (Jul 26, 2012)

Don't have time to write a dissertation on the pros and cons of Tannin additives. I can't speak to anything other than wine made from grapes (fresh or kit). IMHO all red kit wine needs a dose be it small or large depending on varietal. I am adding Tannin as well to my fresh grape wines from last year as well as this coming crush. 

I want a wine that taste like a BIG commercial red wine and one that will age well and has a long finish. Tannin is my preferred method that will boost the wine in both of those areas. 

I have used Tancor Grand Cru in the past and will use Tannin FT Rouge on last years crush and this years as well. 

These products are instant dissolve and the effect can be tasted immediately but they will need a few months time to fully integrate into the wine.

Again only you the winemaker can decide what they want their wines to taste like. If you want an early, easy drinker red wine you don't need to add any Tannin. Tannin will increase the time it takes for a wine to mature but it will also allow the wine to hold up longer in the bottle and help the wine hold up longer once its opened.

Hope this helps.


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## Julie (Jul 26, 2012)

Tannin is what gives your wine the pucker if too much is added. If you plan on drinking your wine young, use a smaller amount but if you plan on aging your wines for a few years add a larger amount. The tannins will soften with age. Tannins give wine structure and texture and provides an important dimension in flavor.


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## dmulligan (Jul 26, 2012)

I am just learning what it is that I like and don't like about wines. One of my new favourite commercial wines is the Alma Negra 2008. This is an Argentinian Mendoza region Malbec and Bonarda blend. I haven't confirmed it yet but I believe that the flavour I like so much in it is the amount and quality of the tannins. Has anyone tried this wine that can confirm? I would like to try to replicate something that compares, not to this exact wine blend but to the portion of the flavour that I love so much about it. I've had one other wine that this reminds me of a few years ago which I think was either a Carmenere or an Argentinian Malbec.

David


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 26, 2012)

dmulligan said:


> I am just learning what it is that I like and don't like about wines. One of my new favourite commercial wines is the Alma Negra 2008. This is an Argentinian Mendoza region Malbec and Bonarda blend. I haven't confirmed it yet but I believe that the flavour I like so much in it is the amount and quality of the tannins. Has anyone tried this wine that can confirm? I would like to try to replicate something that compares, not to this exact wine blend but to the portion of the flavour that I love so much about it. I've had one other wine that this reminds me of a few years ago which I think was either a Carmenere or an Argentinian Malbec.
> 
> David



I appreciate you quest but tannin will not duplicate terrior. If you love South American Malbec and who doesn't, you should try some Chilean Malbec. These grapes give you the authenticity I think is what you are liking so much. I have never found a California Malbec which has that certain quality which I think you are in love with. Do not get me wrong, there is a very big difference not to say that the CA grapes are less quality, and I am talking about quality Malbec fruit, but it is not the same as the Chilean Fruit. I attribute it to terrior. 

As far as tannin additions are concerned the addition of fermentation tannins and post fermentation tannins are two different things. For the latter this is a matter of taste adjustment. The former however is done not for taste only but for some very different yet important reasons. One is Color Locking. Color can be lost if not enough tannin is present. The other is losing tannin and precipitation in the bottle when aging. An example is having a coating on the sides of a bottle of wine after a few years. Basically the wine is not stable. Oh it tastes good but it is unattractive and if shook up the sediment gets dislodged and makes the wine a tad cloudy. Don't get me wrong many very expensive wines cellared for years will exhibit this phenomenon. Tannin additions at the beginning of fermentation will reduce this problem in a very big way. 

To get specific I use two different fermentation tannins during fermentation.
I do like FT Rouge at the beginning but at 18 brix I like to use Laffort VR Color keep in mind I half dose as per manufactures recommendations. So the total addition is the same. Keep in mind these are wood products primarily Chessnut. There are grape tannin products as well. Those could be used with wines like Pinot Noir. But all of this is up the the Winemaker to use and compare and decide what is best 2 -3 years down the road after bottling. 

You said you were just learning, well all of this takes time like a good bottle of wine. You just have to stick with it. 
Malvina


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## dmulligan (Jul 26, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> I appreciate you quest but tannin will not duplicate terrior. If you love South American Malbec and who doesn't, you should try some Chilean Malbec. These grapes give you the authenticity I think is what you are liking so much. I have never found a California Malbec which has that certain quality which I think you are in love with. Do not get me wrong, there is a very big difference not to say that the CA grapes are less quality, and I am talking about quality Malbec fruit, but it is not the same as the Chilean Fruit. I attribute it to terrior.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Thank you for your response. I should have stated that I plan on starting with a Argentinian kit. I don't claim to understand much about terroir other than it is the expression of the land the grapes grew in.

I've tried a Grand Cru Chilean malbec kit, with crushed grapes, and it is very fruit forward and missing the character that I am looking for. Perhaps it is a little young and I will make sure that some ages a lot more before I "give up" on that kit. It is an enjoyable wine, it is just not what I was looking for. 

Thanks again,
David


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## bob1 (Jul 27, 2012)

You know someone explained this really good once . Bite a grape but dont bite through and just saver the juice , spit the seeds out. Then get one and bite it straight through seed and all. You will get a dryness from the seed. I think it better describes grape tannin better than the regular definition, as I think of pucker as acidic. The grape tannin is an acid but it does not really hit the tongue like the acids we normally think of. It is also an acid which helps aid in preservation.


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## Wade E (Jul 27, 2012)

Tannins are what really protects a good wine and makes it much more stable. Its why a big red wine will far outshelve a white wine. If your sticking with kits for now then the Tancor products are what you should stick with which are post fermentation products and do yourself a favor and do bench trials as a little goes a long way and if too much is added all your wines will taste the same!


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