# Ports



## Julie

There was a few of you who asked what happened to the Port Forum, unfortunately there wasn't enough activity to justify a forum dedicated to just Port. So I am making this a sticky so anyone who would like to post about ports can do so here and it will always be at the top of the General Wine Making Forum for easy access.


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## marino

There was a lot of excellent info buried in the port boards. Are those posts still around? Where's the barrels forum?


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## Johnd

marino said:


> Where's the barrels forum?



It's still there, called "Barrels and Oaking"


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## ColemanM

Not sure if anyone remembers my Old vine Zin port I made back a few years ago, but here's an update....
Nose: fig, raisins slight blackberry. 
Taste: raisins, brown sugar, supple tannins light Hungarian oak. Baking spices. After breathing for 24 hours, there is really no heat from the abv. I added a bottle of my petite sirah, a bottle of my Malbec and a bottle of my cab merlot to top the barrel before bottling. The ps really added to the color. I would gladly pay $30 for this tawny style port. It was aged in my Vadai barrel for 18 months. Classy port. 90 points.


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## Boatboy24

I still miss the port forum. 

That OVZ Port looks very good.


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## Tnuscan

Guess what I've started craving.


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## ColemanM

I'm thinking I've got to skirt the no alcohol shipping rules.


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## geek

That looks pretty ColemanM


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## vacuumpumpman

Looking forward to bottling some port in the next couple of weeks !


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## FTC Wines

We just bottled a Tempranillo Port which is very promising. Our first Port, figured we would start with a Spansh wine. Got it to 18.5% abv, with chapilization & Brandy. Hope to put some away for years. Roy


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## dcbrown73

I'm looking to make half my 6 gallon batch of cherry wine into a cherry chocolate port.


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## FTC Wines

David, I took 2 bottles of our Choclate Cherry Port ( Kit) and blended it with 4 bottles of the Temparnillo Port and it made an awesome Port. The desert Port is great sipping, the 1 to 2 bottle ratio Port is Great drinking. Roy


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## dralarms

I'm getting ready to bottle my second go around of mixed berry port.


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## ColemanM

I have a new batch of OVZ port in the barrel now, and a bucket of frozen Tempranillo must on the way. Gonna try a blend this time. Not let it get tawny on me.


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## marino

Coleman, how's the Tempranillo port? I made 6 gallons last year and I think it might need some acid. Feels allotted flat. Haven't tested yet, but I'm not sure how that will work because it already is fortified


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## Deezil

Banana Bochet Port

It's a complex process, but it's worth it.
If you like Port, if you like Honey.... Give it a try.

Not much banana in the end, but what is there, will blow your mind.


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## Elizajean

FTC Wines said:


> We just bottled a Tempranillo Port which is very promising. Our first Port, figured we would start with a Spansh wine. Got it to 18.5% abv, with chapilization & Brandy. Hope to put some away for years. Roy


So, I have a Tempranillo close to bottling. I am wondering if I could take a gallon, or so, and turn it into port at this stage. I like dry or slightly off dry ports. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks!


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## JohnT

You could by adding a fortifier to the desired ABV (use the pearson's square to figure this out) and then adding sugar to come to the right %


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## Stressbaby

I'm just starting a 6 gallon batch of elderberry at 5#/gallon. I have PLENTY of elderberry wine already and was thinking of splitting off a gallon for port. So I have some questions.
1. Will 5#/gallon give enough fruit flavor for port?
2. I see a couple of ways of managing the sugar - most seem to add sugar step-wise, ferment to dry using a yeast with high alcohol tolerance, then fortify and back-sweeten. But Allison Crowe has an article where she fortifies at 12*° *Brix. This method doesn't make much sense to me. It seems logical to maximize the alcohol produced by the yeast, rather than just adding it in with the fortifier. True?
3. My elderberry wine will have TA 6-6.5 g/L, pH 3.45-3.55 range. The same article by Crow recommends additional acid - pH in the 3.2 range. Is there a target TA for ports?
4. I have a couple of pounds of blackberries left in the freezer. I could add those to the 1 gallon once I pull that off. Or alternatively, I could infuse the fortifier. Or finally, I could do a secondary infusion into the wine itself. Recommendations?


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## sour_grapes

Stressbaby said:


> 2. I see a couple of ways of managing the sugar - most seem to add sugar step-wise, ferment to dry using a yeast with high alcohol tolerance, then fortify and back-sweeten. But Allison Crowe has an article where she fortifies at 12*° *Brix. This method doesn't make much sense to me. It seems logical to maximize the alcohol produced by the yeast, rather than just adding it in with the fortifier. True?



I think the reason some people do it this way is that they feel that grape sugars are "better" than table sugar in some regard, so they want the sweetness to be from the original grape sugars. And, of course, this is how port was originally done.


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## vacuumpumpman

also - the port when you fortify it is much more body and taste to it. in my opinion


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## JohnT

Question #2 - I like to use this method. This was the port is sweetened by the natural sugars of the grape and (to me) is a much more simple approach. Simply kill of the yeast by adding the appropriate amount of fortifier and you are good to go.

Question #3 - Very good question. To be honest, I make very small amounts of port and I really never bother to check PH, but just adjust to taste. I feel (and I could be wrong here) that the fortifier is a great preservative and maintaining an appropriate PH level is much less of a concern.


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## Stressbaby

Thanks for the replies.

Question #2 - In the case of this elderberry, there isn't that much natural sugar, it's mostly sugar I added so I suppose this reasoning wouldn't apply, do you agree?

My other concern here is the volume of fortifier. WineCalc tells me that if I fortify my 1 gallon mid-ferment at 7% ABV, I need 0.65 gallon of 80 proof vodka to get to 20% ABV. I may as well just flavor the vodka. OTOH if I let the thing ferment out to let's say 16%, then I only need 0.20 gal of the 80 proof vodka to get to 20% ABV.


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## sour_grapes

Yeah, I agree with your reasoning. Might as well make your own ethanol as pay someone else to do it for you (especially since it will be table sugar either way). Less dilution of your flavor your way, too.


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## vacuumpumpman

@Stressbaby - can you purchase everclear ? 

In the state I live in I can purchase 195 proof - so there is no watered down dilution in my ports


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## Stressbaby

vacuumpumpman said:


> @Stressbaby - can you purchase everclear ?
> 
> In the state I live in I can purchase 195 proof - so there is no watered down dilution in my ports



Yes I think so - Missouri - you'd go that route rather than vodka or something else?


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## vacuumpumpman

Yes definitely !

If I added alot of water (77.5 percent by volume ) to everclear - I will have vodka

There is some neat practices on making grain alcohol more smoother - add old or new oak chips in it for approx 1-2 weeks. This will make it almost like a high powered Brandy.

also u can use activated carbon (distiller grade) prior to the oak to enhance the flavor and run it thru a coffee filter.

Caution only use glass no plastic when using high alcohol - as it will melt plastic on contact


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## Doug’s wines

I would definitely want to do something to smooth out the everclear. I tried it in a port I was making recently up against brandy and decided to use xo brandy as the everclear just made it taste too harsh. The xo brandy actually added a few nice background notes that vodka wouldn’t bring in although I considered that too. This was a grape fpac based port (toasted marshmallow) kit so *definitely* not the same thing. I’ve never done anything with elderberry, so I can’t make an informed recommendation, but if it was me, I would bench test a few small samples to determine if you like what it’s tasing like before doing the whole batch. That’s how I decided against the everclear versus Brandy and went with a slightly higher brandy : port ratio than I originally thought about. 

Better to not like one or two ounces than a whole batch!


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## vacuumpumpman

Also ever clear needs time like most ports to sit for a while prior to drinking them


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## Stressbaby

Update:

I split off just over 1 gallon, added sugar back to 1.030, fermented that to 1.004, added sugar back to 1.030 again, and that has fermented down to 1.014. Somewhere in there I gave it a little dose of Fermaid O. It hasn't completely stopped but it has slowed way down. By my calculations, I'm at 16.14% ABV with 3.6% RS. Smells good, no off odors, but I haven't tasted it.

My plan for today is:
5oz Everclear brings me to 19% ABV
Dose with KMS
No additional sugar
Taste test for acid additions

I'm also interested in thoughts on 1) oak cubes; 2) blackberry infusion to add some fruitiness.


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## NorCal

I made a mess out of 5 gallons of port this last year, that I’m still trying to recover from. The plan was to make it from Cab grapes, arrest at 7 brix with Brandy to 20% abv. The cab came in at 23.5 vs 25.5 brix and the yeast kept chugging away, so I kept adding sugar. Well, then it stopped and I had a light red port that was too sweet. I added a gallon of Petite Sirah that I had, a spiral of oak, as well as another handle of brandy...yea volume is expanding.

The person I’m making it “with” likes the way it tastes now, but to me it is still lacking any interesting flavors that I have gotten before when I made Zin port from a stuck fermentation. I was thinking of adding brown sugar as another winemaker had done, to give it some carmel notes. Has anyone else done this?


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## Mumazilla

Is it a strong consideration as to which brand name of brandy you use/or cost range?


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## pillswoj

I use a cheap local one - Ontario Small Cask.


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## Dennis Griffith

Has anyone tried a clear (white)151 rum to fortify? I think I read this somewhere and it has me curious as to what it would taste like.


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## GaDawg

I’ve used 191 proof Golden Grain.


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## Dennis Griffith

How did the port taste and how much did it take to reach the desired ABV? Depending on the rum maker, 151 would probably give a slightly different taste, but I suppose I'll just have to try it out.


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## pillswoj

I have never had a 151 white rum that didn't taste like paint thinner, ambers and darks have a nicer flavor, depending on the flavor notes of the port an amber rum might compliment it nicely.


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## baron4406

I made a "port" two years ago. Every year I make a large blueberry wine run. Usually around 20 gallons. Well that year the blueberries were terrible, but I made the wine anyway. It was bad, but I was able to rescue it.kinda. I decided to try something radical. I racked one 5 gallon carboy into a 6 gallon carboy then added two blueberry flavorings, two bottles of blueberry vodka, and one bottle of Christian Brothers brandy. It was awful. It tasted like something they'd serve you on death row if you liked blueberries and sadness. I basically forgot about it for a year. Then I needed bottles for this year's blueberry run, I decided to dump the evil blueberry port. When I uncorked the first bottle I got a rush of blueberries that smell nothing like the swill from a year ago. Shockingly it was now fantastic, you couldn't even taste the alcohol. Amazing what time does to even very bad wine.


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## dralarms

dralarms said:


> I'm getting ready to bottle my second go around of mixed berry port.




After taking quite some time to “age” it’s finally to the point that I can drink it and taste the berries


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## rgonzales1981

I make a batch of port every year from my home grapes, typically use leftover concord 1 or 2 gallons, I let the fermentation run dry, capitalizing the wine to produce a 14% wine then fortify with brandy and back sweeten. It produces an excellent port. My wife is a bit of a port snob and absolutely loves it. Usually bottle it in 375ml bottles. Simple process but works very well.


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## rgonzales1981

Another wine I worked on with the left over concord this year was a chocolate wine, used one gallon of backsweetened concord with potassium sorbate already on board and added 20gm of lindt milk choc every 1-2 months in 3 additions until the hint of choc on the beginning of the taste was noted then filtered and bottled, made a nice dessert wine. May combine the choc with the port after reading some of these post!


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## Stevew1

It seems we are all trying out a version of this. I use a small 1 liter barrel to age my port. I have used different homemade wines, either red berry or peach brandy, some moonshine, homemade, it was given to me, and let it sit for 2-4 months. The small barrel size allows me to make 3-4 batches a year.


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## jburtner

I finally started my first small batch port this past weekend by blending some Cab Sav, Merlot, Syrah, and Malbec - all from grapes and bulk aging for 18mos-2yr range, bumping the SG to the 1.010 range, topping up with some stiff grappa brandy to about 20% ABV and have moved it into a small 10l oak barrel which previously had bourbon in it for further aging.... Bottled five 375's for testing and top-up. Think I'll test one again tonight 

Wondering what folks might be doing to get a little dark chocolate in there?

Cheers,
johann


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## Mario Dinis

I also made a port with a blend of Syrah, Cab Sav and Merlot and used Sao Domingos portuguese brandy.


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## AdegaAguiar

Last year i made a port with my Petit Sirah. Added brandy when the wine reached an alcohol level of 8%. Added brandy soaked oak chips and a spiral toasted oak stick and let it set. Came out pretty good for my first try. Going to make a 5 gallon batch this year. What brandy have you all used to make Port?


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## Mario Dinis

AdegaAguiar said:


> Last year i made a port with my Petit Sirah. Added brandy when the wine reached an alcohol level of 8%. Added brandy soaked oak chips and a spiral toasted oak stick and let it set. Came out pretty good for my first try. Going to make a 5 gallon batch this year. What brandy have you all used to make Port?


I used São Domingos, 3 year old brandy from Portugal. If one's making a big batch like you, it can be pretty expensive at about 20 bucks per bottle. I only made a gallon and used two bottles.


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## SLM

I hope this thread still gets read. Sounds like several members have port skills.

Last year I made my first blackberry port. Followed a recipe that called for 14% ABV wine fortified to 20% with brandy. Turned out excellent. 8 gallons of wine required a lot of brandy.

This year I made 14 gallons. I step-fed sugar to reach 19% ABV. I am running several trials to see what I like best. At 3 months I back-sweetened the trials. Results so far:

19%ABV, no fortification - decent flavor
Fortified with brandy to 22% - winner so far, extra layer of flavors, smooth, maybe better than last year's model
Same as above to 21% - not as rich
Fortified to 21%, 22% with expensive cognac - this was a highly rated cognac but had a powerful bite. Garbage in, garbage out, so far 

So my question is, for those with experience: Why start with a low ABV wine and add expensive spirit when you can almost reach target ABV with sugar? Of course, as I am finding, brandy enhances the flavor in my opinion. But others prefer a neutral grain spirit so as not to alter the flavor of the fruit. So unless you are using the old world method, why not maximize your ABV before fortifying?


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## hounddawg

SLM said:


> I hope this thread still gets read. Sounds like several members have port skills.
> 
> Last year I made my first blackberry port. Followed a recipe that called for 14% ABV wine fortified to 20% with brandy. Turned out excellent. 8 gallons of wine required a lot of brandy.
> 
> This year I made 14 gallons. I step-fed sugar to reach 19% ABV. I am running several trials to see what I like best. At 3 months I back-sweetened the trials. Results so far:
> 
> 19%ABV, no fortification - decent flavor
> Fortified with brandy to 22% - winner so far, extra layer of flavors, smooth, maybe better than last year's model
> Same as above to 21% - not as rich
> Fortified to 21%, 22% with expensive cognac - this was a highly rated cognac but had a powerful bite. Garbage in, garbage out, so far
> 
> So my question is, for those with experience: Why start with a low ABV wine and add expensive spirit when you can almost reach target ABV with sugar? Of course, as I am finding, brandy enhances the flavor in my opinion. But others prefer a neutral grain spirit so as not to alter the flavor of the fruit. So unless you are using the old world method, why not maximize your ABV before fortifying?


ok i ain't quite sure what i make is called a port, i take 6 gallons of water, i use EC-1118, YEAST nutrients and yeast energizers and step feed my sugar until i kill my yeast, done right you can get 20 to 21 ABV, now once the ferment is over i add lemon juice till i am 1 quart juice to one gallon water, after clearing i take a 6.5 carboy pour a fifth of pure grain alcohol into the 6.5 carboy, then rack my skeeter pee port in to the 6.5 carboy then bottle, it taste like lemonade and kicks like a mule, i bulk age for a year, it gets real smooth, i have to warn people not to drink and drive, nor use power tools climb ladders ECT, ECT,
Dawg


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## joeswine

Your port was very smooth, nice job.
Dawg


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## SLM

hounddawg said:


> ok i ain't quite sure what i make is called a port, i take 6 gallons of water, i use EC-1118, YEAST nutrients and yeast energizers and step feed my sugar until i kill my yeast, done right you can get 20 to 21 ABV, now once the ferment is over i add lemon juice till i am 1 quart juice to one gallon water, after clearing i take a 6.5 carboy pour a fifth of pure grain alcohol into the 6.5 carboy, then rack my skeeter pee port in to the 6.5 carboy then bottle, it taste like lemonade and kicks like a mule, i bulk age for a year, it gets real smooth, i have to warn people not to drink and drive, nor use power tools climb ladders ECT, ECT,
> Dawg


Sounds like you're ending up about 18.5%. That qualifies in my books. You didn't mention back-sweetening. If you're fermenting dry don't you need to sweeten it?


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## hounddawg

SLM said:


> Sounds like you're ending up about 18.5%. That qualifies in my books. You didn't mention back-sweetening. If you're fermenting dry don't you need to sweeten it?


it was a oversight on my part, i back sweeten to a FSG of 1.040, and yet , it is a smooth tart, with no alcohol burn, i use it on sleepless nights. i know of others who worked with the amount of lemon and their sweet spot is in between they original and mine ,,, i look at it like this, the original recipe is on this site. mine i pass out just to show the wide variances that one could find their sweet spot, i f your single you, just suit your self, other wise you please your better half, 
Dawg


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## SLM

I agree with your philosophy. And I appreciate when others share methods they have found successful. I'm thinking of fortifying some with aguardiente


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## hawkwing

SLM said:


> I hope this thread still gets read. Sounds like several members have port skills.
> 
> Last year I made my first blackberry port. Followed a recipe that called for 14% ABV wine fortified to 20% with brandy. Turned out excellent. 8 gallons of wine required a lot of brandy.
> 
> This year I made 14 gallons. I step-fed sugar to reach 19% ABV. I am running several trials to see what I like best. At 3 months I back-sweetened the trials. Results so far:
> 
> 19%ABV, no fortification - decent flavor
> Fortified with brandy to 22% - winner so far, extra layer of flavors, smooth, maybe better than last year's model
> Same as above to 21% - not as rich
> Fortified to 21%, 22% with expensive cognac - this was a highly rated cognac but had a powerful bite. Garbage in, garbage out, so far
> 
> So my question is, for those with experience: Why start with a low ABV wine and add expensive spirit when you can almost reach target ABV with sugar? Of course, as I am finding, brandy enhances the flavor in my opinion. But others prefer a neutral grain spirit so as not to alter the flavor of the fruit. So unless you are using the old world method, why not maximize your ABV before fortifying?


I’ve read that when you try and achieve higher alcohol levels using the yeast the yeast will start to get stressed and produce more byproducts that are not desirable. Possibly the kind that lead to off tastes and hangovers.


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