# Brand spanking new...



## Vaudun (Sep 4, 2020)

Hi all, 

I'm brand new to wine making. I've just put up my first batch of peach wine as a trial run. It's been going for about 5 days, at this point. This is what it looks like. 









New video by Vaudun D'Noir







photos.app.goo.gl





I've read on many sites that you should check your specific gravity frequently. I've also read that you should not return the sample from your hydrometer to your fermenter. 

The hydrometer that I bought came with a 250 ml cylinder. My question is, what should I do when making a gallon of wine? If I pour off a quarter of a liter whenever I test my SG, if I test it 4 times, I've lost about a quarter of my product before I even rack my wine.


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## scruff_farrier (Sep 4, 2020)

I know alot of guys might not agree, and I haven't been doing this nearly as long as most of these guys. But, as long as I have everything, and I mean everything sanitized I will return it to the carboy as long as it didn't touch anything else. Also, frequently is a little bit vague. I tend to only check it after a week or so of primary. That tells me when it should be ready to rack to secondary or when it's close, then I check to before I rack. Then after that I check to make sure it's finished and to backsweeten. I feel your pain I started with one gallon jugs and didn't want to lose a full 750ml just checking gravity. I'm sure everyone has there own process and protocol. But for me atleast so far. I always return it, just being careful to always make sure everything is clean and has been in starsan. Hope that helps/makes sense.


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## Vaudun (Sep 4, 2020)

Thanks, that helps. I was inclined to do the same. Making sure that everything is sanitized thoroughly. I won't be as concerned once I move up to my 5 gallon, but for a 1 gallon, it seems like a lot of waste.


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## Rice_Guy (Sep 4, 2020)

My standard is a sample in a 50 ml plastic cylinder. I will return the sample to the must and when the gravity is below 1.060 will just float a smaller hydrometer in it. (Theory: the scoop is clean, the cylinder is clean, the hydrometer is clean !! if picky would spray meta on it first) I also have hunted Goodwill enough to find a bud vase that works as a tall small cylinder for gravity less than 1.


pH will get tossed.
(opinion, peach is a harder wine to run than grape,,,, peach takes lots to clear).

Interesting photo @Vaudun, will have to research that technology and, .... welcome to WMT


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## Fingaluna (Sep 5, 2020)

A refractometer works very well for checking Brix (percent sugar, similar to specific gravity), but only uses a few drops...
They are a bit spendy though.
Might be something for you to consider down the line.
Downside is that once fermentation has begun, you need to use a calculation to modify the reading you get (due to the presence of alcohol changing the refractabiity of the liquid), but that's pretty easy.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 5, 2020)

*Follow basic cleaning practices with your equipment and return the SG sample to the bucket.*

The only samples you should never return are those used for a *TA* check - When you use any additional chemicals to do a test, DON'T return THAT sample. I never do a TA test, just pH tests with digital meter. You only do the TA test before fermentation or well after it done so that isn't a big issue and the sample is much smaller.


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## Vaudun (Sep 5, 2020)

Thanks for all the great input, everyone. I feel better knowing that I'm not committing a grievous wine-making sin by returning my SG sample to my fermenter.  I'll post later on my progress. Thanks again!


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## hounddawg (Sep 5, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Thanks for all the great input, everyone. I feel better knowing that I'm not committing a grievous wine-making sin by returning my SG sample to my fermenter.  I'll post later on my progress. Thanks again!


shoot pouring out your sample is akin to throwing away your hydrometer every time you use one, that;s as stated better by those above, lol, i use only my wine thief to put my hydrometer in to get my SG, and as stated above just sanitize everything first every time,,, i always return my samples, the only exceptions is what @Scooter68 said about any sample you added chemicals to to test for things, anytime i go into my wine room the first thing i do is fill a sink basin with water and k-meta, but if you don't have a sink in your wine room , then i;d make up a k-meta solution in a bowl or jugs something, once your in the habit of making up a k-meta solution for sanitation, you've way by many factors reduced your risk of contamination, as well just me but by the door i keep exam gloves and face mask, i have a tracheotomy, so i cover it before entering my wine room, OH BTW welcome to WMT,,
Dawg


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## G259 (Sep 6, 2020)

I add 1/4 teaspoon of pot. meta powder, to a 32 oz. spray bottle, and fill it with water. It has worked as a sanitizer for me or the last 3 years (I'm new!) I find that wine is very forgiving to the winemaker, it can withstand the occasional mistake, and come through with impunity.

(Some mistakes are more unforgiving to fermentation, like mistakenly adding pot. sorbate too soon.)


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## Vaudun (Sep 8, 2020)

Thanks, all, for the info and encouragement. 

So, this is day 8 of my inaugural wine making journey. Fermentation is starting to slow down a bit. The fermenter is still bubbling, but there is no longer the "snow globe" effect with the sediment swirling around inside. 

The recipe I'm using said to move to a secondary fermenter when fermentation slows after 10 to 14 days. However, I've read here about making that decision based on SG. 

My OG was 1.108. How would you all recommend that I determine when to move to my secondary? 

And thanks again! 
V


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## hounddawg (Sep 8, 2020)

what is your SG now?
i rack from .998 to .996
Dawg


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## Johnd (Sep 8, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Thanks, all, for the info and encouragement.
> 
> So, this is day 8 of my inaugural wine making journey. Fermentation is starting to slow down a bit. The fermenter is still bubbling, but there is no longer the "snow globe" effect with the sediment swirling around inside.
> 
> ...



You are correct, the best indicator of "time to move" is when the fermentation slows down, typically somewhere in the vicinity of 1.000, could be .998 or 1.008 depending upon the wine, but don't sweat the numbers too much. Anything under 1.010 is usually safe. What you don't want, is a very actively fermenting wine to go into a carboy and create all sorts of messes, wine volcanoes, overflows, bubblers full of wine and foam, that sort of stuff. If you are going to err, err on the side of caution, which is waiting longer, rather than racking too soon.

What is your current SG?


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## Scooter68 (Sep 8, 2020)

Yup, as Johnd Stated most of us only make the premature racking move once. After cleaning up that mess, lessons learned are not often forgotten.
I've had a few ferments finish so fast that they were already at .992-.990 when I took another reading. For the first 2-3 days after fermentation finishes there is still a fair amount of CO2 gassing off providing a little protection but best not to push your luck. For me a tell-tale sign is when the surface no longer has a solid layer of foam but rather is down to islands or a ring of foam around the edge. THEN I rack but still observe for an hour or so afterwards


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## Vaudun (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi, all. So here's an update on my progress. It's day 9, and I just treated my SG. It's 1.044, if I'm reading it right. Attaching a pic, if someone could verify.

Anyway, I think I'm going to wait 'til day 14 before checking again. Then we'll see how it goes!


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## sour_grapes (Sep 9, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Hi, all. So here's an update on my progress. It's day 9, and I just treated my SG. It's 1.044, if I'm reading it right. Attaching a pic, if someone could verify.
> 
> Anyway, I think I'm going to wait 'til day 14 before checking again. Then we'll see how it goes!



Yes, I think you are reading it correctly. (Hard to say from here within 0.001 or 2.)


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## KCCam (Sep 10, 2020)

Usually primary fermentation is done in an open bucket with just a towel covering it or a lid resting loosely on top. Much easier to clean, and gives your yeast better access to oxygen when it needs it. 9 days seems like a long time to only come down to 1.044, unless you are intentionally going for a slow ferment. It also allows you to start with a little more volume than your secondary has, so when you rack off the gross lees, you will fill your secondary without having to top up with water or another wine. When you rack off the lees from your 1 gallon jug shown in the video, you will have a lot of headspace to top up, unless you have a smaller secondary.


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## Vaudun (Sep 10, 2020)

KCCam said:


> Usually primary fermentation is done in an open bucket with just a towel covering it or a lid resting loosely on top. Much easier to clean, and gives your yeast better access to oxygen when it needs it. 9 days seems like a long time to only come down to 1.044, unless you are intentionally going for a slow ferment. It also allows you to start with a little more volume than your secondary has, so when you rack off the gross lees, you will fill your secondary without having to top up with water or another wine. When you rack off the lees from your 1 gallon jug shown in the video, you will have a lot of headspace to top up, unless you have a smaller secondary.


Thanks KKCam. I'll keep that in mind for the future. I've only been doing this for just over a week, so I've still got a LOT to learn.

I'm keeping my fermenter in the basement, which is around 65°, so I expect that's the reason for the slower fermentation rate. 

My secondary is also a 1 gallon, so I was wondering if I should top it up with water when I rack it. I guess the answer is yes?


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## KCCam (Sep 10, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> I've only been doing this for just over a week, so I've still got a LOT to learn.


Forgot to say “Welcome!” I think you'll like it here. Get ready for a fun ride!



Vaudun said:


> I'm keeping my fermenter in the basement, which is around 65°, so I expect that's the reason for the slower fermentation rate.


Yes, cool temperatures slow things down. Make sure you're in the suitable range for the yeast you're using (what yeast are you using?). Primary fermentation in a carboy (jug) with an air lock can also slow down fermentation.



Vaudun said:


> My secondary is also a 1 gallon, so I was wondering if I should top it up with water when I rack it. I guess the answer is yes?


That depends. Purists will say NEVER top up with water. But really, it depends on your recipe (was it meant to make a full gallon of finished wine?), your taste (are you going to mind it being watered down?), the availability of a compatible wine, how long you plan to age it, and the amount you need to top up. You would not likely be able to tell the difference if you only added a few ounces of water to a gallon of wine, but some people would. Peach is known to drop a lot of sediment, so I think you will probably have a pretty big space to fill.

If you post the actual recipe, you might get some advice from more experienced members. If it were my wine, I would rack it when it got down to about 1.010 or less, smelling it every couple of days to make sure the yeast isn't stressed (H2S - rotten egg smell - is a sign). It would still be producing enough CO2 that the large headspace would be OK, probably. As soon as the SG is the same for 3 days, I would take a small sample, say 1/4 cup, and taste it. Add a bit of sugar, say 1/4 tsp, and taste again. Add another 1/4 tsp and taste again. If I like it well enough to drink now, I would clear it quickly with DualFine, stabilize, backsweeten, and bottle. Then enjoy it while I do my next batch. If I didn't like it well enough to drink now, then I would take the necessary steps to allow aging, including adding a compatible wine to top up. In the mean time, spend some time learning about when & why you do what, especially potassium metabisulfite (k-meta) and potassium sorbate (sorbate), as it confuses a lot of beginners. @winemaker81 graciously provided a very nice summary here: Dono if my wine is done or not yet


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## Vaudun (Sep 10, 2020)

KCCam said:


> Forgot to say “Welcome!” I think you'll like it here. Get ready for a fun ride!


Thanks! 


> Yes, cool temperatures slow things down. Make sure you're in the suitable range for the yeast you're using (what yeast are you using?). Primary fermentation in a carboy (jug) with an air lock can also slow down fermentation.


I'm using Lalvin EC-1118. 


> If you post the actual recipe, you might get some advice from more experienced members.


Here is the recipe that I used: Homemade Peach Wine


> If it were my wine, I would rack it when it got down to about 1.010 or less, smelling it every couple of days to make sure the yeast isn't stressed (H2S - rotten egg smell - is a sign). It would still be producing enough CO2 that the large headspace would be OK, probably. As soon as the SG is the same for 3 days, I would take a small sample, say 1/4 cup, and taste it. Add a bit of sugar, say 1/4 tsp, and taste again. Add another 1/4 tsp and taste again. If I like it well enough to drink now, I would clear it quickly with DualFine, stabilize, backsweeten, and bottle. Then enjoy it while I do my next batch. If I didn't like it well enough to drink now, then I would take the necessary steps to allow aging, including adding a compatible wine to top up. In the mean time, spend some time learning about when & why you do what, especially potassium metabisulfite (k-meta) and potassium sorbate (sorbate), as it confuses a lot of beginners. @winemaker81 graciously provided a very nice summary here: Dono if my wine is done or not yet


Thanks for all the info. I'll guess I'll be learning a lot on this journey, and doing a lot of research!


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## KCCam (Sep 10, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm using Lalvin EC-1118.
> 
> ...


And this is a great place for both!


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## KCCam (Sep 10, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> I'm using Lalvin EC-1118.


EC-1118 is a good workhorse. It should be fine at that temp.


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## KCCam (Sep 10, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Here is the recipe that I used: Homemade Peach Wine


I just read the recipe. *Be careful.* There is some wrong information, and some potentially dangerous information. The author implies you can make this a sparkling wine simply by using champagne yeast. I did not read any warning about exploding bottles if not done correctly. The author also states you can stop a fermentation with k-meta and sorbate. Don’t believe it. A beginner should never attempt that. The author advises against using “chemicals”, specifically k-meta and sorbate. There are very sound scientific reasons for using them. In the amounts they are used, they protect you (and your wine) from potentially worse things, and... *sugar* is a “chemical”, and it’s way worse for you than any other chemical you’re adding. *Do not skip *k-meta and sorbate before bottling if there is any sweetness to your wine at all. That’s my humble opinion. Others may comment as well.


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## pillswoj (Sep 11, 2020)

Regarding the adding of water, That recipe is already very low on fruit, you may want to top it up with a light white wine rather then water.

Many of us have done peach wines with upwards of 10 lbs peaches per gallon (basically no water except for the sugar solution to raise the SG, if you search there are several discussions in the country fruit winemaking subforum.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 11, 2020)

I second @KCCam's points, especially the one about exploding bottles!

Unless you are deliberately making champagne/sparking wine, DO NOT bottle the wine if it is still emitting CO2. Pressure can build up, and a screw cap bottle -- which is NOT designed to handle pressure -- can explode. If the bottle is corked, it is very unlikely to explode, but pressure may blow the cork and spray wine, depending on how much pressure.

I also second @scruff_farrier's point about NOT throwing away the wine used to test SG. If everything is clean and hygienic, the wine is fine.

At this point I'll make my obligatory statement about using the FermTech wine thief, which is big enough to hold a hydrometer. Clean and sterilize it, inside and out. Lower it into the wine (great for carboys!) and let it half fill (or so). Drop in a clean/sterilized hydrometer, take a reading, then press the lever on the bottom of the thief against the inside of the carboy to release the wine. There is minimal air contact and you lose no volume.


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## Vaudun (Sep 13, 2020)

Thanks again to everyone. 

@KCCam, I am _attempting_ to make a sparkling wine, and I will be corking my bottles. I will do more research on when and how to use k-meta and sorbate. 

@winemaker81, I was just looking at the FermTech wine thief. I've found it somewhat awkward to siphon the right amount of wine into the graduated cylinder that came with my hydrometer. 

@pillswoj, thanks for the input. I've always got some white zin on hand, so I guess I'll use that for a top up.


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## Vaudun (Sep 15, 2020)

So, it's day 16, and I got my fermtech wine thief and hydrometer, and what do you know, I won't fit in my 1 gallon carboy.  So, I pulled out my siphon and graduated cylinder to take my reading. SG is now down to 1.021, and wine is still slowly bubbling along.

I'm trying to decide if I should rack it to me secondary yet, or if I should wait for SG to drop some more.


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## KCCam (Sep 15, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> So, it's day 16, and I got my fermtech wine thief and hydrometer, and what do you know, I won't fit in my 1 gallon carboy.  So, I pulled out my siphon and graduated cylinder to take my reading. SG is now down to 1.021, and wine is still slowly bubbling along.
> 
> I'm trying to decide if I should rack it to me secondary yet, or if I should wait for SG to drop some more.


I use a glass turkey baster. I find it easier to sanitize with my setup (dunk the glass into my bucket of Na-meta).
Most people wait until 1.010 or 1.000 for secondary, but you're in a glass jug already, so I don't think it really matters.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 15, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> So, it's day 16, and I got my fermtech wine thief and hydrometer, and what do you know, I won't fit in my 1 gallon carboy.


AARRGGHH!!! My apologies on this point.

All wines I do are a minimum of 3 gallons, most 5+, so I did not consider that the wine thief doesn't fit through the Paisano gallon jugs I use for overflow. I always check the carboys!

Riding on @KCCam's post, the wine thief is a lot narrower than test jars, so you can use the turkey baster to put wine in the thief. From there, it's easy to put back in the jug with no splashing.

Side note: Clean the baster VERY well. Recently I made a gallon of One-Step (essentially industrial grade hydrogen peroxide), and after cleaning all my carboys, I dropped all of my free airlocks into the bucket. I let them set for an hour, then removed and rinsed. I clean everything each time I use it, but was still astounded at how ugly the One-Step looked.

Before the start of the fall grape season, my new practice is to soak everything in One-Step. Of course, I'll rinse with K-Meta before use, but this will help ensure everything is clean.


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## Bossbaby (Sep 15, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm brand new to wine making. I've just put up my first batch of peach wine as a trial run. It's been going for about 5 days, at this point. This is what it looks like.
> 
> ...


put your sanitizes hydrometer into your gallon jug or bucket why pull a sample..


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## Vaudun (Sep 16, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> AARRGGHH!!! My apologies on this point.
> 
> All wines I do are a minimum of 3 gallons, most 5+, so I did not consider that the wine thief doesn't fit through the Paisano gallon jugs I use for overflow. I always check the carboys!


No problem, @winemaker81, I've got several 5 gallon carboys waiting in the wings. I just started with the 1 gallon because this is my first attempt at making wine, and I wanted to start small to get a feel for the process. 

The fermtech will definitely come in handy in the future.


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## Vaudun (Sep 16, 2020)

Bossbaby said:


> put your sanitizes hydrometer into your gallon jug or bucket why pull a sample..


Hi @Bossbaby. I tried that, but because I had already pulled and discarded a sample (before joining WMT), the hydrometer touches the bottom of my carboy. 

Things will be easier next time around with the bigger carboys.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 16, 2020)

Bossbaby said:


> put your sanitizes hydrometer into your gallon jug or bucket why pull a sample.


Depending on the container and the wine level inside, getting the hydrometer out can be a trick.


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## Vaudun (Sep 16, 2020)

KCCam said:


> Most people wait until 1.010 or 1.000 for secondary, but you're in a glass jug already, so I don't think it really matters.


Hi @KCCam, 

Just so I understand, in this case, are you saying that the SG doesn't matter, or moving to secondary doesn't matter? 

I want to rack to secondary because I have a thick layer of sediment in my primary, and I want to do this right.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 16, 2020)

I'm sticking my nose in and answering for @KCCam ...

What he's saying is that most people do their first racking/pressing below 1.020 -- values between "fermentation done" (0.990 and 0.998) and 1.010 are common. Since you've already racked, it's no longer an issue.

This is a judgment situation where different answers are (more or less) equally correct. This is my process:

I typically rack/press around 1.010, as fermentation is nearing it's end (80 - 90% done). [I've racked as high as 1.020, but that was a specific situation and is not my normal.] At this point I move to secondary storage with a fair amount of head space, waiting for fermentation to complete. This takes another 1 to 7 days (IME), typically 3 days.

The ballpark estimate for fermentation complete is relatively easy -- watch for a sudden drop of sediment and the cloudiness to drastically clear (this is imprecise, subject to judgment, and may differ greatly between wines). I check the SG, and if it's 0.996 or below, fermentation is essentially done. [some folks say 0.998, and I've said it in a few posts, but IME that's an edge case. 0.996 is my personal threshold.]

I let the wine set a couple of days, check SG, and then rack. I've let the wine go as much as 10 days before racking, but that was situation specific and it's not my normal.

At this point, I reduce head space in the carboy drastically (1" to 3") as there is a much reduced CO2 cushion.

This is also the point to stir the wine and add the final fining agent. If you're making a kit, follow the instructions.


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## KCCam (Sep 16, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Hi @KCCam,
> 
> Just so I understand, in this case, are you saying that the SG doesn't matter, or moving to secondary doesn't matter?
> 
> I want to rack to secondary because I have a thick layer of sediment in my primary, and I want to do this right.


What I mean is, most of us do primary fermentation in an open bucket, with a loose lid or towel to cover. During primary, oxygen is good, but you have to keep critters out. An open bucket is also easier to take SG readings, to stir daily (for oxygen), to avoid a mess if the fermentation is very active, and to clean after. Once the SG gets down to 1.010 or so, oxygen starts to be the enemy, so daily stirring stops, the fermentation has slowed to a fizz (like soda in a glass), and the gross lees begin to settle out. Around 1.000, much less CO2 is coming out of solution (less fizz), and a lot of gunk (gross lees) is on the bottom. Racking off the lees now to a secondary vessel (jug or carboy) and put under an air lock protects it from oxidation as it completes fermentation and begins to clear. 

So, generally one of the main purposes of racking to secondary is to get the wine under air lock. Yours is already under air lock, so you can wait if you like. Something to think about is that peach tends to drop a lot of lees, as you’ve noticed. When you rack, you may be leaving a significant amount behind, and your secondary will have a lot of air (oxygen) over the wine (headspace). That’s bad if left very long. Peach can take a long time to clear, so it is advisable to top up with a compatible wine or water. That’s another reason to use a bucket for primary: you can start with, say 1 1/4 gallons or more so the secondary will be full, and you’ll have some leftover to top up at the next racking. Topping up with water is never advised, as it dilutes the wine. But since this is your first wine, if you have nothing else suitable, a lighter, slightly diluted wine is better than a spoiled wine.


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## KCCam (Sep 16, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> Since you've already racked, it's no longer an issue.


I guess we were typing at the same time, and you beat me to the post. I believe @Vaudun has not racked yet, but has done primary fermentation in the glass jug, and is getting ready to do the first racking. Either way, our advice still stands.


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## Vaudun (Sep 16, 2020)

Thanks @winemaker81 and @KCCam. 

My wine is currently at a slow fizz, so I think I will move it to my secondary tonight, top it up with some white zin, and get it back under an airlock. 

Little by little, this is all starting to sink in. I'll start my next batch in a bucket as recommended. 

And I'll keep you posted on my progress.


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## Vaudun (Sep 16, 2020)

Racked my wine off into secondary, and topped it off with some white zin to fill the headspace. 

There's a fine dusting of sediment on the bottom, now, but not the sand dunes that were in the primary. 

I'm not seeing the tiny bubbles in the wine that I was seeing in the primary, but I do see the bubble slooowly pushing through the airlock. So far so good. 

Now I'm sitting here drinking the 4 or so ounces from the lees that I poured through a coffee filter. 

My tongue's getting numb.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 17, 2020)

That's a pretty color!


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## winemanden (Sep 17, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Racked my wine off into secondary, and topped it off with some white zin to fill the headspace.
> 
> There's a fine dusting of sediment on the bottom, now, but not the sand dunes that were in the primary.
> 
> ...


I notice there is a nice white grin showing on the demijohn. Is that your reflection after drinking those 4ounces?


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## Vaudun (Sep 17, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> That's a pretty color!


Thanks! 

I think it's darker than it would've been because I had frozen my peaches before making the wine.

I had more fresh peaches than I could use at the time, so I cut them down and tossed them inn the freezer. The fruit darkened after I thawed it, but I think it gave the wine I deep, rich color.


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## Vaudun (Sep 17, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> That's a pretty color!


Thanks! 

I think it's darker than it would've been because I had frozen my peaches before making the wine.

I had more fresh peaches than I could use at the time, so I cut them down and tossed them inn the freezer. The fruit darkened after I thawed it, but I think it gave the wine a nice, deep, rich color.


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## Vaudun (Sep 17, 2020)

winemanden said:


> I notice there is a nice white grin showing on the demijohn. Is that your reflection after drinking those 4ounces?


LOL I'll not tellin'! 

But I did sleep really well last night.


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## Vaudun (Sep 17, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I think it's darker than it would've been because I had frozen my peaches before making the wine.
> 
> I had more fresh peaches than I could use at the time, so I cut them down and tossed them inn the freezer. The fruit darkened after I thawed it, but I think it gave the wine a nice, deep, rich color.


Sorry for the double post. 

When I posted the first time, my reply showed up in a pop-up. I didn't think that it posted (plus, I saw a small typo, which I fixed), so I hit post again.


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## Vaudun (Sep 17, 2020)

Also, another question for the more experienced: how's my headspace? Should I have topped up more?


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## winemaker81 (Sep 17, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Also, another question for the more experienced: how's my headspace? Should I have topped up more?


I'd top it another inch, but honestly, it's probably OK as-is.


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## KCCam (Sep 18, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Also, another question for the more experienced: how's my headspace? Should I have topped up more?


I did notice your air lock seems a little full. Once degassed, it’s possible for a drop in temperature to create a negative pressure in the carboy, causing bubbles to go backwards through the air lock. It’s rare, but I’ve seen it happen. Careful it’s not so full that it would suck solution into your wine. If you take the air lock off, you should be able to blow gently into the top without any liquid coming out the bottom.


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## Vaudun (Sep 24, 2020)

It's been just over a week since I racked my wine to my secondary. It seems to be doing OK. Tiny bubbles slowly streaming to the top. I've included a link to a short video of activity. 









New video by Vaudun D'Noir







photos.app.goo.gl





However, there doesn't appear to be any movement in my airlock. I've made sure the bung is in nice and tight, and I know there's positive pressure in the carboy because the water is higher on the outbound side. 




I don't know that I have anything to worry about but I figured I'd post an update and see what feedback I can get. 

Let me know what you all think!


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## KCCam (Sep 24, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> It's been just over a week since I racked my wine to my secondary. It seems to be doing OK. Tiny bubbles slowly streaming to the top. I've included a link to a short video of activity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Air lock looks fine to me. You could probably top up a bit more now though, if you have it, maybe to about the center of the finger hole.


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## Vaudun (Oct 7, 2020)

So, here's an update: I racked my wine into another jug (shortly after the above post) before topping it up because there was something gray floating on top. At first I was afraid it was mold, but after looking more closely, I wasn't sure. 

Anyway, like I said, I racked it, topped it up with more white zin, and put it back in my basement. 

I was concerned that I donked it up with all of my shenanigans because it stopped bubbling. Then, two days later I saw little tiny bubbles floating up. But then they stopped a day or so later. Then they started again. Now they've stopped again. 

I know it will stop bubbling when fermentation is complete, and I haven't tested SG again, yet. 

All that being said, this is what it looked like on day 37 (yesterday). Not sure if that ring is anything to worry about. 

And finally, I just checked it again, and there are now little tiny bubbles floating up again. 

The journey continues...


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## winemaker81 (Oct 7, 2020)

You'll get residue from fermentation around the top of the jug. It's probably nothing.

Check the SG. If it's done (0.998 or less) look at the sediment, and if there is a layer, rack again.

Clean the jug well before putting wine back in it.


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## Vaudun (Oct 8, 2020)

There is very little sediment at the bottom, and the wine has cleared up considerably.

And as of right now, there are still tiny, tiny bubbles floating up. 

I think I'm just going to let things go on the way they are for another week or so before doing anything, unless something drastic happens.


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## Vaudun (Nov 1, 2020)

Hi all,

Si here's an update. My wine has been in my secondary fermenter for about 6 weeks. I can't say exactly when the bubbles stopped, but it's definitely not bubbling any more, so I thought it would be ready for bottling. I just tested the SG and it's around 1.015. I made sure that there were no bubbles on my hydrometer. So I'm not sure what to do now.


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## KCCam (Nov 1, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Si here's an update. My wine has been in my secondary fermenter for about 6 weeks. I can't say exactly when the bubbles stopped, but it's definitely not bubbling any more, so I thought it would be ready for bottling. I just tested the SG and it's around 1.015. I made sure that there were no bubbles on my hydrometer. So I'm not sure what to do now.


Hmmm, after 2 months that indicates your wine hasn't fermented dry. Has it been that value for a while now, or is it still dropping slowly? Can you confirm your hydrometer reads 1.000 in water? How clear is it? (Maybe a pic?) If the SG is not dropping, and it's crystal clear, and you like the taste, you could probably bottle it now after adding K-Meta (1 Campden tablet per gallon) and K-Sorbate (1/2 tsp per gallon). I would get some more opinions than just mine though.


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## Vaudun (Nov 2, 2020)

Thanks for the input, @KCCam.

I just verified that my hydrometer does read 1.000 in the filtered water I used for my wine. And I hadn't taken an SG reading for a while because of all that's involved. 

Because the wine is in a narrow necked 1 gallon carboy, I can't get my wine thief in it, and it's not deep enough to float the hydrometer directly in the jug. I have to siphon to test, and I wanted to minimize the number of time I did that to avoid contamination. 

Anyway, I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I can see through it, at this point (pic attached).

The taste is pretty good, so I ordered some k-meta and k-sorbate, so I will be ready for bottling when the time comes. 

Waiting to hear what others may have to say.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 2, 2020)

Well, I would say that it looks like you have a stuck fermentation. Your basic choices are to try to restart the fermentation, or to take a risk and try to stabilize it and then bottle it (if you like the way it tastes now).

Restarting a fermentation that close to finished (1.015) is not trivial. To do so, I would use a starter (Using Yeast Starters For Improved Fermentation). 

For the latter option, I would be very patient. Rack, use k-meta and sorbate, then wait months to see if it is stable (i.e., not fermenting) before bottling.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 2, 2020)

The best way to get a stuck ferment to re-ignite is to bottle it!

That is said in a Murphy's Law frame of mind.  

You have at least 3 choices:

1. Stabilize and bottle if you're happy with the taste, as @KCCam suggested.

2. Let it set another month, as it's not hurting it.

3. Add a yeast nutrient and/or energizer, and warm the wine a bit, possibly by putting it in direct morning sunlight for 3 or 4 days. This may kick off a renewed fermentation. Whether it works or not, let it set another month.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 2, 2020)

Paul, Looks like it's my turn to post right after you!


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## KCCam (Nov 2, 2020)

Vaudun said:


> Anyway, I wouldn't say the wine is crystal clear, but I can see through it,


Yah, when it’s clear you can read a newspaper (or your keyboard) through it. But on the bright side, you’re only dealing with 1 gallon (5 bottles). Whatever you decide, I would say that it’s not really the cost of the ingredients you’re trying to salvage, like it might be if you were making 6 gallons or 60 gallons, and that the time you’ve invested is not wasted, regardless of the outcome.

I would rack it now to get it off the sediment so samples can be taken without stirring it up. As I mentioned before, I suggest if you have a turkey baster, clean it well or buy a cheap one. Siphoning to get a sample is a pain. 5 pumps of the baster gets me enough wine for an SG measurement, and can be used to return the wine without stirring up the lees too. It’s quicker than siphoning and easier to sanitize than racking equipment. SG measurements are too important to me to skip, especially when troubleshooting.

And finally, my “refermentaphobia” got me into trouble recently when I may have been a little too assertive with my comments, but if you bottle cloudy wine, I recommend you store it in a way that you won’t be too upset if you pop a cork or two, preferably in a cool location. Your chances are probably pretty slim that you would have problems, but higher than if your wine is clear when you bottle it.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 2, 2020)

"clear" is a easy to misunderstand term in wine making. For lighter wines, as @KCCam stated, you can read through the wine. For darker wines (like the one pictured below, which is giving black holes tips on how to trap light), it's not as obvious. Think of "clear" as meaning "has no visible suspended particles and isn't dropping sediment".

I'm not sure of what I see in the picture of the wine. Thinking about it more, my instinct is that it's not done. This is gut feel, so there's no science behind it. If it was me:

Rack the wine, get it off any sediment. Hit it with an energizer and/or nutrient. Give it another month.

Rack off any sediment. Stir the wine to drive off CO2. Test SG and consider your options:

1. If it's 0.996 or less, fermentation is done. Stabilize and sweeten to taste.

2. If it's still 1.015 ... it ain't movin'. Stabilize.

3. If the SG is in between -- post and ask advice again. Everything depends on the SG and there will be differences in opinions!  

If it's #1 or #2, I would use a clarifying agent. Give it a couple of weeks, rack again, and bottle.

Don't stress over this. Wine is a natural product that works according to Mother Nature's rules. Learn to accept what "is" and work with it!


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## KCCam (Nov 2, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> like the one pictured below, which is giving black holes tips on how to trap light


 I love that description!



winemaker81 said:


> easy to misunderstand term


Yah, I guess I wasn’t “clear.”  

I’ve used a flashlight or laser pointer on darker ones. If you can see the beam, it’s reflecting off of particles. But it doesn’t even have to be that dark for that trick to not work either. Putting it in a smaller container (like a glass) can help, but hey, these are tricks to help predict if the wine will drop any more sediment, or start fermenting again, if bottled today. Clarity is beautiful, but it’s really just an indicator that the wine is perfectly finished. Only time can make you certain of it.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 2, 2020)

KCCam said:


> I’ve used a flashlight or laser pointer on darker ones.


That is an excellent tip!


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## KCCam (Nov 2, 2020)

KCCam said:


> I’ve used a flashlight or laser pointer on darker ones.





winemaker81 said:


> That is an excellent tip!


I've found the laser particularly good. If you shine through the carboy to a distant (or close) wall, the "fuzziness" of the dot can help too.


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## Vaudun (Nov 5, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> Well, I would say that it looks like you have a stuck fermentation.


@sour_grapes, that's what I was afraid of, however, I don't know if it was from jostling my jug about, but I just looked, and there are now streams of tiny bubbles rising up again, so it looks like fermentation is back on! 


sour_grapes said:


> Restarting a fermentation that close to finished (1.015) is not trivial. To do so, I would use a starter (Using Yeast Starters For Improved Fermentation).


I checked out the link on yeast starters and threw one together last night. I'm getting ready to start a 5 gallon batch of wine, so I thought the starter was a good way to go. I was going to use some in my small batch, also, to try and restart it, but I guess I don't need to do that, now. 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. 

Cheers!


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## Vaudun (Nov 5, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> The best way to get a stuck ferment to re-ignite is to bottle it!


 that sounds about right! 

As I mentioned above, though, it looks like fermentation has restarted, so I think I'll let nature take its course, fits the time being. 

Thanks and cheers!


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## Vaudun (Nov 5, 2020)

KCCam said:


> But on the bright side, you’re only dealing with 1 gallon (5 bottles).
> 
> ...it’s not really the cost of the ingredients you’re trying to salvage, like it might be if you were making 6 gallons or 60 gallons


True, which is why I started small. 


KCCam said:


> I suggest if you have a turkey baster, clean it well or buy a cheap one. Siphoning to get a sample is a pain. 5 pumps of the baster gets me enough wine for an SG measurement, and can be used to return the wine without stirring up the lees too. It’s quicker than siphoning and easier to sanitize than racking equipment.


Good advice. I'll definitely be digging through my junk drawers to find my turkey baster. It sounds so much easier than borking around with my autosyphon. 

Thanks and cheers!


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## Vaudun (Nov 5, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> For darker wines (like the one pictured below, which is giving black holes tips on how to trap light)



LOL I wish I had said that. That's awesome.


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## Vaudun (Jan 9, 2021)

Hi all.

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm still around.

So, I'm getting ready to bottle my inaugural batch of wine. There has been no visible signs of fermentation for over about 2 months now. I racked the wine from its 1 gallon carboy into about a month ago and added a campden tablet.

Does anyone have any tips or tricks before I get started? 

I read somewhere that I should put another campden tablet in before bottling. How long should I wait between using the tablet and bottling the wine? 

Should I pour the wine from the carboy into the bottles, or siphon out? 

Should I sanitize my corks? With K-meta? Boiling water? Do I let them dry afterward? 

So many questions, so little wine.


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## Rice_Guy (Jan 9, 2021)

* at two months we tend to add both metabisulphite and sorbate, you could get away with meta if it is dry since sugar is the driver to encourage regrowth.
* my experience is that red grape holds some SO2 therefore it might be OK, whites as well as country wines consume SO2 therefore I assume zero and add more meta every time I rack/ transfer. The eventual when you can test is “add enough to make 50ppm”. The main purpose for adding more meta is to increase the shelf life. If you plan on using this batch within a year again you might let it go.
* I siphon as much as I can, do you have a racking cane? If not polyethylene tubing straightens out if heated,,, ie I make my own racking canes, siphon tubes, long runs, I have collected silicone tubing I patch racking tubes together with,,, vinyl also will work to patch tubes together,,,, early days I would work in the kitchen and place the carboy on the counter and use a drawer to siphon bottles into ie look at what you have for height example an empty pail up side down
* SO2 is nasty stuff! I did coughing fits starting siphons and eventually got a vacuum so I wouldn’t breath it.
* corks generally store them dry, yes some will slosh sanitizer on them and last week someone posted about a humidor for sanitizing. I use plastic Nomacork and always slosh in a cottage carton with some sanitizer.

remember wine is forgiving, we each use different tweaks and by and large they work.


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## Vaudun (Jan 10, 2021)

Hi @Rice_Guy,

Thanks for the feedback.


Rice_Guy said:


> * at two months we tend to add both metabisulphite and sorbate, you could get away with meta if it is dry since sugar is the driver to encourage regrowth.
> * my experience is that red grape holds some SO2 therefore it might be OK, whites as well as country wines consume SO2 therefore I assume zero and add more meta every time I rack/ transfer.


Well, this is the peach wine that I started with this thread. I just checked SG and it's still at 1.012, but there's been no activity for a couple months. I racked it about a month ago, and there's no bubbles and no new sediment.


Rice_Guy said:


> * I siphon as much as I can, do you have a racking cane?


I just I ordered 2 stainless steel canes (after looking at all-in-one wine pump).


Rice_Guy said:


> * corks generally store them dry, yes some will slosh sanitizer on them and last week someone posted about a humidor for sanitizing. I use plastic Nomacork and always slosh in a cottage carton with some sanitizer.


I'm using natural cork, so I think I'll definitely give them a bath.


Rice_Guy said:


> remember wine is forgiving, we each use different tweaks and by and large they work.


Thanks again. I'm slowly building up my own library of tweaks, and this input helps.


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## Vaudun (Feb 15, 2021)

I finally bottled my first batch of wine that I started with this thread. SG was still 1.012 but no activity for several weeks. I bottled it up on February 6, and now we wait.


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