# A year in!



## Sunshine Wine (Dec 23, 2020)

My blackberry wine has been aging for about a year now! I have to rack while I am off for the holidays. I have been collecting wine bottles and will need to pick up some corks eventually. I'm in no hurry, but am very excited to reach the bottling process and giving as gifts, hopefully next Christmas. I have seen no activity in the airlocks in a long time now, but just want to let it keep aging. I will be back sweetening later on, too. Am a little nervous about that, but will do my research! Hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas and a happy new year!


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## Bossbaby (Dec 24, 2020)

How large is your batch of BlackBerry, you could rack into a smaller vessel and pull some aside and experiment with stabilizing and adding small amounts of sweetener at a time till it's what you want, since you have the time, it should be pretty decent with a year under it..


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 24, 2020)

I have a total of 9 gallons at the moment. A 6 gallon carboy and 3 one gallon jugs. What do you mean by stabilizing? This is my first time, so I am going to be reading and researching what comes next..lol.


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## Bossbaby (Dec 24, 2020)

potassium sorbate 1/2 tsp per gal when adding sweeteners to prevent any residule yeast from fermenting the sugar and popping corks.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 24, 2020)

Yes, I definitely don't want that to happen! Thanks!


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## jgmillr1 (Dec 24, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> I'm in no hurry, but am very excited to reach the bottling process and giving as gifts, hopefully next Christmas


Cheers and Merry Christmas. My $0.02 is that your blackberry should be bottled sooner rather than later. Extra time risks oxidation which leads to fruit aroma degradation and potential spoilage. Hopefully you've kept up on the sulfites to protect the wine over the last year. You'll definitely need sorbate and the right amount of sulfites at bottling to protect the wine.

I've made blackberry for many years and try to bottle in as short of time as possible. I filter it though. Carboy "aging" in the context of home winemaking is a euphemism for letting time and gravity filter your wine. This comes with the risks mentioned above and ties up your container for next batch of wine waiting for those of us who are impatient.

The wonderful thing of fermenting the blackberries in their flesh is the extraction of tannin that stabilizes the color. Once you bottle, you'll be glad that the color isn't falling out as sediment. It will make a fantastic gift.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 24, 2020)

Yes, I have added the sulfites each time I have racked. Thank you for the advice. So, I should rack, add sulfites and do my back sweetening now? If so, how long do I wait to bottle?


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## Arne (Dec 25, 2020)

Add your sulfites, sorbate, and you can sweeten. You can bottle right away, but I usually wait a week or so just to make sure I don't get a referment. Arne.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 25, 2020)

Great, thank you! Merry Christmas!


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## Scooter68 (Dec 27, 2020)

As long as you've kept up with your k-meta additions at rackings and minimized headspace I would not worry about oxidation. Imagine each bottles headspace so for those 1 gallon carboys, the total volume of the headspace in the 5 bottles you would bottle that wine into is likely to be more or at least as much as the headspace in that 1 gallon carboy - so as long as the airlocks are kept topped off properly your oxidation risk is very low - nothing to worry about. Remember in wineries they age their wine in wooden barrels which are going to permit more oxygen into their wine than your glass carboys. 
I've never lost any color from my wines due to aging in carboys. By the time I rack at the 6, 9 and 12 month points the residue on the bottom of my carboys wouldn't fill a 1/8 teaspoon measure. That would be very visible with my wines like blueberry, blackberry, tart cherry, and black currant wines.

As to the stabilization - just as Arne mentions, I like to wait about a week after stabilizing. The only drawback is that if I have a 1 gallon carboy properly topped off and I immediately back-sweeten with 3.5 oz of simple syrup - I now have 131.5 oz of wine if I started with exactly 128 oz (1 gallon) and I have to do something with that extra. Like test the taste of it.  So after back-sweetening I like to bottle immediately. BUT waiting a week is a good idea especially with the lighter colored wines where ANY new residue or crystals that drop out are very visible. You of course won't have that issue with Blackberry, nobody would see that until you get to the bottom of that bottle.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 29, 2020)

"Imagine each bottles headspace so for those 1 gallon carboys, the total volume of the headspace in the 5 bottles..."

As you said above, how much head space do I leave in the bottles? And how do I know what size corks to get?


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## Bossbaby (Dec 29, 2020)

look into a spring tipped bottle filler they are cheap, it connects to your siphoning hose and you fill the bottle to the top and when you remove the filler wand it will leave just the right amount of head space. Cork size will depend on what corker you have. hand corker probably#8 corks or #9 with floor corker.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 29, 2020)

Bossbaby said:


> look into a spring tipped bottle filler they are cheap, it connects to your siphoning hose and you fill the bottle to the top and when you remove the filler wand it will leave just the right amount of head space. Cork size will depend on what corker you have. hand corker probably#8 corks or #9 with floor corker.


Ok, great, thank you! I have a floor corker. Any certain brand of corks better than others?


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## Scooter68 (Dec 29, 2020)

I don't worry so much about brand as I do material. So many corks now are agglomerated cork (Made from pieces of cork) and should do fine. Several old heads on here can probably give you better tips than I can. I just have gone with #8 Corks because I don't plan on keeping my wine for more than 3-4 years and so far none has lasted that long before being consumed. I buy from my local supply store but any of the online wine supply places should work. 
If you plan on making nice labels to go with the wine then you might take it one step futher and buy some shrink caps as they give your wine bottles a nice finished look and also keep the tops clean as well. (I shrink them on with either steam from a kettle or a heat gun for removing paint just don't get it too close or turn it up to high. Most hand held hair dryers aren't hot enough so for starters I'd say use steam from a kettle/teapot


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 29, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> I don't worry so much about brand as I do material. So many corks now agglomerated (Made from pieces of cork) and should do fine. Several old heads on here can probably give you better tips than I can. I just have gone with #8 Corks because I don't plan on keeping my wine for more than 3-4 years and so far none has lasted that long before being consumed. I buy from my local supply store but any of the online wine supply places should work.
> If you plan on making nice labels to go with the wine then you might take it one step futher and buy some shrink caps as they give your wine bottles a nice finished look and also keep the tops clean as well. (I shrink them on with either steam from a kettle or a heat gun for removing paint just don't get it too close or turn it up to high. Most hand held hair dryers aren't hot enough so for starters I'd say use steam from a kettle/teapot


Thank you! I have no idea how many bottles nine gallons of wine will take..lol. I've been gathering up used bottles from a friend. I doubt the wine will last long if it's any good at all.. I plan to gift it to anyone willing to try it..lol.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 29, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Thank you! I have no idea how many bottles nine gallons of wine will take..lol. I've been gathering up used bottles from a friend. I doubt the wine will last long if it's any good at all.. I plan to gift it to anyone willing to try it..lol.



You have probably heard the term "a fifth of whisky." A "fifth" is 1/5 of a gallon, which is almost exactly same size as a bottle of wine, namely, 750 mL. So, long story short, 5 bottles of wine for each gallon, or 45 bottles for 9 gallons.


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## bstnh1 (Dec 30, 2020)

If you have a floor corker, I would recommend you stick with the standard No.9 cork. For years I used the bi-disc corks from Widgetco (WidgetCo - Global Source for Corks, Wood Plugs, Rubber Stoppers, etc.) and never had any issues. I've recently switched to Nomacorc, but only because I want to store some bottles upright.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 30, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> You have probably heard the term "a fifth of whisky." A "fifth" is 1/5 of a gallon, which is almost exactly same size as a bottle of wine, namely, 750 mL. So, long story short, 5 bottles of wine for each gallon, or 45 bottles for 9 gallons.


Wow! Thank you!! I think I need more bottles!


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## VinesnBines (Dec 30, 2020)

You can rack to smaller containers to hold in bulk for bottling. For example, if you have a 5 gallon carboy, you can bottle a couple gallons and then rack to a 3 gallon carboy or 3 one gallon jugs. If you do bottle less than the whole batch, bottle the first you rack from the top and middle of the larger vessel. There is ALWAYS sediment in the bottom that you will want to let settle or fall out before attempting to bottle.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 30, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> You can rack to smaller containers to hold in bulk for bottling. For example, if you have a 5 gallon carboy, you can bottle a couple gallons and then rack to a 3 gallon carboy or 3 one gallon jugs. If you do bottle less than the whole batch, bottle the first you rack from the top and middle of the larger vessel. There is ALWAYS sediment in the bottom that you will want to let settle or fall out before attempting to bottle.


I was just thinking about that. Wondering if I could rack to my 5 gallon buckets, add my sulfites, etc. and backsweeten, then wait a week or so and then bottle...


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## VinesnBines (Dec 30, 2020)

Buckets are only useful for a few minutes. In my opinion it would be better to rack to something with a smaller neck or opening, like a carboy or demijohn. I use beer kegs but keep the level completely full with no airspace. You can rack to the bucket, clean your vessel and rack back to back sweeten and add sulfites.


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## Scooter68 (Dec 30, 2020)

If you put your wine into a fermentation bucket to add stabilizer and back-sweeten I would not keep it in there for a week - I'd rather rack it back into carboys to prevent any unneccessary oxidation risk. (Or fruit fly attack)

I would have to disagree with vinesnbines on the sediment situation. A well aged wine will have almost zero sediment if properly racked and handled during the aging time. The only sediment would come from anything that precipitates out after stabilizing and back-sweetening. That was the reason that a one week wait was suggested by ARNE between stabilizing/back-sweetening. Unless you see signs of new sediment at the end of a week, there's no need to bottle the wine in any special way. Just be sure that it's well stirred after back-sweetening. 

As to handling the extra volume after back-sweetening - I use 4 liter containers for my "one gallon" batches so I always have a little more than 5 bottles of wine when I finish bottling. (Even with a few minor spills when going from bottle to bottle. ) In reality I only use the true 1 gallon containers if I encounter a spill or shortfall in a batch volume. So all my 1 gallon batches are in fact 4 liter batches. 

SO if you can find some 4 liter bottles (Carlo Rossi wine is sold in 4 liter bottles. ) You can easily accommodate the extra volume from back-sweetening. For me I normally put my wine into a fermentation bucket to back-sweeten and if I am bottling right away I fill the bottles from that OR if waiting a week, rack back into carboys and use the excess for some taste testing. _*(Seriously and it's a reward for the end of the wine making process)*_

*4 liters = 135.25 oz*


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 30, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> If you put your wine into a fermentation bucket to add stabilizer and back-sweeten I would not keep it in there for a week - I'd rather rack it back into carboys to prevent any unneccessary oxidation risk. (Or fruit fly attack)
> 
> I would have to disagree with vinesnbines on the sediment situation. A well aged wine will have almost zero sediment if properly racked and handled during the aging time. The only sediment would come from anything that precipitates out after stabilizing and back-sweetening. That was the reason that a one week wait was suggested by ARNE between stabilizing/back-sweetening. Unless you see signs of new sediment at the end of a week, there's no need to bottle the wine in any special way. Just be sure that it's well stirred after back-sweetening.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for all the advice!


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 31, 2020)

Getting old labels off the bottles and getting them washed up! Any suggestions for printing your own labels? I'm getting excited!


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 31, 2020)

Uuuggggg...looking on Amazon for corks.... So many to choose from... Some are cheaper than others... I know you get what you pay for, but what's a good choice???


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## bstnh1 (Dec 31, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Uuuggggg...looking on Amazon for corks.... So many to choose from... Some are cheaper than others... I know you get what you pay for, but what's a good choice???


Try Widgetco.com. Their bi-disc corks are good. WidgetCo - Global Source for Corks, Wood Plugs, Rubber Stoppers, etc.


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## bstnh1 (Dec 31, 2020)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Getting old labels off the bottles and getting them washed up! Any suggestions for printing your own labels? I'm getting excited!View attachment 69961


The dishwasher might do a good job of removing most labels, but you'll need more than that to clean them. There are a lot of good cleaners out there for cleaning equipment and bottles. I've used One Step for years and have been satisfied with it.


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## Bossbaby (Dec 31, 2020)

Check out Avery.com for designing a label, easy to use compared to most.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 31, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> The dishwasher might do a good job of removing most labels, but you'll need more than that to clean them. There are a lot of good cleaners out there for cleaning equipment and bottles. I've used One Step for years and have been satisfied with it.


Oh, I used googone on the labels that didn't come off easily. The dishwasher was just to clean them. I will use starsan to sanitize them unless that's not recommended. That's what I have used to clean everything when racking.


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## Scooter68 (Dec 31, 2020)

Yes on starsan to sanitize. If you are going to do a lot of this there is a handy tool "Vinator" that sprays the inside of bottles for you and collectsa the run off . $20-25

For labels Avery has an online label designer and you can order bulk packs of labels or standard Office Depot type packages of theme
AVERY PRESTA 94212 is a good size and it's "Removable Matte White paper" The round top labels pictured here are not going to fit all bottles. Keep in mind you can print the lables either way the label paper so tall or wide layout.

I finally broke down and bought a color laser printer for under $200. Toner is the costly stuff to refill but you can get 3rd party toner too, (Brother HL-l3210CW They are now up to $250.00 and I've been happy so far. Not photo quality but for labels....

Have fun you are so close to really enjoying the product of your time and effort and just as much fun - sharing it and watching faces light up on friends.


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## Sunshine Wine (Dec 31, 2020)

Scooter68 said:


> Yes on starsan to sanitize. If you are going to do a lot of this there is a handy tool "Vinator" that sprays the inside of bottles for you and collectsa the run off . $20-25
> 
> For labels Avery has an online label designer and you can order bulk packs of labels or standard Office Depot type packages of theme
> AVERY PRESTA 94212 is a good size and it's "Removable Matte White paper" The round top labels pictured here are not going to fit all bottles. Keep in mind you can print the lables either way the label paper so tall or wide layout.
> ...


Thank you! Happy new year!


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 1, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> Try Widgetco.com. Their bi-disc corks are good. WidgetCo - Global Source for Corks, Wood Plugs, Rubber Stoppers, etc.


Just ordered the corks! Thanks!


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 1, 2021)

So, I have a question...lol. I have blackberry wine that I am getting ready to backsweeten and then bottle. How do I know what to call it? I want to make my labels and wondered if I just call it Blackberry Wine or if it is considered something in particular depending on the ABV or sweetness, etc. Thanks for all your help this year!!


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## cmason1957 (Jan 1, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> So, I have a question...lol. I have blackberry wine that I am getting ready to backsweeten and then bottle. How do I know what to call it? I want to make my labels and wondered if I just call it Blackberry Wine or if it is considered something in particular depending on the ABV or sweetness, etc. Thanks for all your help this year!!



It's your wine, you can call it Sherman if you want to. Home winemakers have no rules to follow. It's call it BlackBerry wine, but that's just me.


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## montanarick (Jan 1, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Uuuggggg...looking on Amazon for corks.... So many to choose from... Some are cheaper than others... I know you get what you pay for, but what's a good choice???


my standard go-to are Aquamarc corks


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## Bossbaby (Jan 1, 2021)

you could come up with a catchy label name that you would always use and the wine type would follow your name..


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## Scooter68 (Jan 1, 2021)

My "Brand Name" is because I do my wine making in the house where my Wife grew up and use Her Maiden name (Grandfather was German and we have this 'Affinity' for things German) So the brand name is "Heffner Haus Wines" or "Heffner Haus Cider" Along with a picture of the house. The rest is just the variety of the wine and details I want to include such as Month it was fermented, ABV, and sometimes the pH of the wine. Oh yeah and Dry, Semi-Sweet, or Dessert Wine. Think my second or third batch was Black Currant which in German is Schwarze Johannisbeere. 

As mentioned call it what you want -get creative or keep it simple


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 1, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> My "Brand Name" is because I do my wine making in the house where my Wife grew up and use Her Maiden name (Grandfather was German and we have this 'Affinity' for things German) So the brand name is "Heffner Haus Wines" or "Heffner Haus Cider" Along with a picture of the house. The rest is just the variety of the wine and details I want to include such as Month it was fermented, ABV, and sometimes the pH of the wine. Oh yeah and Dry, Semi-Sweet, or Dessert Wine. Think my second or third batch was Black Currant which in German is Schwarze Johannisbeere.
> 
> As mentioned call it what you want -get creative or keep it simple


Yes, the dry, semi-sweet or dessert was what I wondered about. How do I know what it is considered? Not sure how to figure ABV, either...lol. I'm leaning toward a table or dessert wine because I like it sweeter. Will keep researching! I'm going to go with my title on here: "Sunshine Wine". Just trying to figure out what all to put on my label. Thanks for all your help!


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## SLM (Jan 1, 2021)

jgmillr1 said:


> The wonderful thing of fermenting the blackberries in their flesh is the extraction of tannin that stabilizes the color.


How long do you ferment the berries in their flesh? The recipe I used says to not ferment the berries with their seeds because the finished product will be bitter. Not so?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 1, 2021)

SLM said:


> How long do you ferment the berries in their flesh? The recipe I used says to not ferment the berries with their seeds because the finished product will be bitter. Not so?


I had juice with pulp in it, but after initial fermentation, I strained it all out when I racked. So no berries left in the wine.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 1, 2021)

Great Sunshine! There is no hard fast rule on what constitutes, dry, semi-sweet vs Sweet. Normally would call any unsweetened wine a Dry wine as long as the SG ended up below .998 (Just a WAG on that) Any wine you consider sweet would be a sweet wine. A dessert wine typically would be high alcohol along with being sweet. 

The SG numbers after back-sweetening are generally what one would use to determine what to call it. (And what I put on bottles when I do that) BUT in reality it's your call. If' you think it's sweet - it's sweet, if you feel it's only slightly sweet you can call it semi-sweet or semi-dry. (maybe based on which it end it favors. I had a tart cherry wine that ended up with an SG of 1.014 which would often be considered sweet BUT because it had a high ABV (15%) and was so tart, you didn't taste any sweetness until the finish. So again for starting out - Just go what what it seems like to you. 

You label only needs to have on it what you want to remember about that wine. The ABV is basically the number you get when you calculate it using your starting and ending SG's unless you did a step feed of sugar or topped off with another wine. You kinda assume that if you didn't water it done or try to raise the ABV with a higer ABV wine or straight alcohol (Everclear/Vodka) then that calculated ABV is what I would put on the bottle. ( I just use this online calculator in my wine making: Alcohol By Volume ABV Calculator - Brewer's Friend


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 1, 2021)

SLM said:


> How long do you ferment the berries in their flesh? The recipe I used says to not ferment the berries with their seeds because the finished product will be bitter. Not so?


I give them a 3-4 days with the flesh. Never have had any bitterness or astringency. Same for blueberries. However, I have noticed astringency when strawberries are fermented with their seeds.


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## my wine (Jan 2, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Yes, the dry, semi-sweet or dessert was what I wondered about. How do I know what it is considered?


I had a similar question and found this online somewhere. This is not hard and fast across the world but worked for the Missouri fair in 2012 it seems. 

Here is an example from the Missouri Winemaking Society Fair page for 2012...

I. DRY WINES; Wines that have virtually no residual sugar (less than 0.5%). Specific gravity is < 1.000. Wines entered in this category have complete fermentation (not stopped by intervention of the winemaker) and have not been back-sweetened. 

II. OFF-DRY WINES - Used to accompany a meals main course or drink by themselves. These wines are not completely dry (i.e., may be back sweetened or may have early termination of fermentation), but are too dry for a Social Wine. They have up to 1% residual sugar and less than 14% alcohol. Specific gravity is 1.000 to 1.010.

III. SOCIAL WINES - Primarily enjoyed in the evening or afternoon with snacks but may be used with meals or any time. They typically have 1% to 4.0% unfermented sugar with less than 14% alcohol. These are commonly known as "semi-dry" or "semi-sweet" wines. Specific gravity is 1.010 to 1.025.

IV. DESSERT WINES - Full bodied, very sweet wines that are normally served at the end of a meal or with desserts or snacks. These wines contain more than 4.0% sugar and may contain over 14% alcohol. These are commonly referred to as "sweet" wines. Specific gravity is > 1.025. 

V. SPECIALTY WINES - Includes sparkling (carbonated) wines, appetizer or cocktail wines (such as sherry, vermouth, Madeira and port), honey-based wines, and other wines which do not fit the other categories. A fortified wine (Port, Sherry or Madeira) is a wine that uses distilled spirits to increase alcohol level.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 2, 2021)

my wine said:


> I had a similar question and found this online somewhere. This is not hard and fast across the world but worked for the Missouri fair in 2012 it seems.
> 
> Here is an example from the Missouri Winemaking Society Fair page for 2012...
> 
> ...


Great! Thank you!


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## SLM (Jan 2, 2021)

jgmillr1 said:


> I give them a 3-4 days with the flesh. Never have had any bitterness or astringency. Same for blueberries. However, I have noticed astringency when strawberries are fermented with their seeds.


Tell me more. 3-4 days would be in the thick of fermentation. You remove the berries then?


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 2, 2021)

SLM said:


> Tell me more. 3-4 days would be in the thick of fermentation. You remove the berries then?


I like to press while there is still sugar to ferment. I track the brix reading on the refractometer and press when it gets to about a reading of 10 brix. (The alcohol present in the ferment causes a higher reading by about 3 brix, so the sugar level is really about 7brix). By pressing at this point, it allows the yeast to utilize the dissolved oxygen that is picked up during the pressing, which may help prevent stuck fermentations and at least better protects against spoilage than if I'd waited until later and been left with oxygen in the wine.

The other reason is that the anthocyanin color pigments are basically fully extracted by this point and only additional tannin will continue to be extracted. Since added tannin beyond what is needed to stabilize the color is usually undesired in fruit wines, that is a good time to press.


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## SLM (Jan 2, 2021)

The more I read the less I know.

So then how do you start out? I've been freezing, thawing, pressing, add sugar and ferment.


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 2, 2021)

SLM said:


> The more I read the less I know.
> 
> So then how do you start out? I've been freezing, thawing, pressing, add sugar and ferment.


I get the blackberries stacked on each other in a macro bin. Upwards of 1000lbs. They aren't frozen but near freezing. Their weight alone crushes the berries and releases juice. By the time I've warmed them up with a glycol immersion heat exchanger after a day or so, there is plenty of juice to mix in the sugar, calcium carbonate, and yeast. Nutrients come a couple days later. Then pressing after a couple more days.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 2, 2021)

*jgmillr1*
&
*SLM*


Your discussion about fruit pulp in your ferment is really off the topic of this thread and you need to be considerate of the OP of this thread - start a new thread with an appropriate title and you might actually get more help.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 2, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> look into a spring tipped bottle filler they are cheap, it connects to your siphoning hose and you fill the bottle to the top and when you remove the filler wand it will leave just the right amount of head space. Cork size will depend on what corker you have. hand corker probably#8 corks or #9 with floor corker.


Is this what I need? Let me know which one might be best, please.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 3, 2021)

I've got the one in the middle and it works just fine. The trick of course is getting the flow started to the wand whichever one you chose.


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## hounddawg (Jan 3, 2021)

6 gallons makes 30 bottles, floor corker use #9 cork, i age blackberry from 1 to 2 year in carboys, i use nomacroc on eBay you can get 100 for $30, #9 and 1 & 3/4 long i used to use Flor corks, but nomacrocs can be let stand up or lay down, the 5 gallon buckets might let oxygen in and hurt your wine, keep under airlock till bottling time,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jan 3, 2021)

9 gallons is 45 bottles, in general
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jan 3, 2021)

if you're into country wines go with @Scooter68 he has to make decent wines we both go close to the same, i just go simple and he gets technical,, so he is a very good info, of Couse, their are many on here that are good as well, 
Skoal
Dawg


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## Rice_Guy (Jan 3, 2021)

Craig has a good idea call it Sherman.


Sunshine Wine said:


> So, I have a question...lol. I have blackberry wine that I am getting ready to backsweeten and then bottle. How do I know what to call it? I want to make my labels and wondered if I just call it Blackberry Wine or . .


* first answer it is easier to create a grocery store product with a fanciful name, if there is a predefined grandma’s recipe you will be off target flavor part of the time.
* second answer I am in the buy showy printed labels when they have a sale camp (ex Evermine/ Noontime/ Grogtag). The color label only gets applied if I am giving a bottle away and has the function of identifying the winery. All info as flavor/ finished gravity/ vintage/ bottle run is on an address label which is easy to get off with a little water. Vinyl labels can stay on the bottle if it comes back to be refilled.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 3, 2021)

So, I got the #8 corks from widgetco, as recommended. It said those were for wines that would be consumed in 2-3 years. #9's were for longer shelf time, so I decided on #8. Now my question is...once I bottle, do I refrigerate them, stand them up or lay them on their sides???


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 3, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> I've got the one in the middle and it works just fine. The trick of course is getting the flow started to the wand whichever one you chose.


Great, thanks! When filling, do I fill all the way to the top, and once I take it out, that will be the amount of space left for the cork?


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## bstnh1 (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> So, I got the #8 corks from widgetco, as recommended. It said those were for wines that would be consumed in 2-3 years. #9's were for longer shelf time, so I decided on #8. Now my question is...once I bottle, do I refrigerate them, stand them up or lay them on their sides???


Lay them on their sides with conventional corks. This keeps the cork moist and prevents it from drying, shrinking and leaking.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 3, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> Lay them on their sides with conventional corks. This keeps the cork moist and prevents it from drying, shrinking and leaking.


In the fridge or no?


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## hounddawg (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> So, I got the #8 corks from widgetco, as recommended. It said those were for wines that would be consumed in 2-3 years. #9's were for longer shelf time, so I decided on #8. Now my question is...once I bottle, do I refrigerate them, stand them up or lay them on their sides???


hehe yeah i tend to make small batches when i make a wine, 3 to 7 ,, 6 gal carboys at a time, lol
Dawg


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## bstnh1 (Jan 3, 2021)

.


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## bstnh1 (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> In the fridge or no?


No fridge.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 3, 2021)

Immediately after bottling I like to store my wine upright for a few days just in case something causes a pressure build up and pushes a cord up (Or pops it out completely.) Less mess from an upright bottle than one laying down. 
After a few days laying on their sides is best - as mentioned to keep the cork moist. Wine Racks aren't that expensive to purchase and they aren;'t hard to build either so whichever works for you.

If you can find a place that is a fairly consistent temp (cooler is better) I'd keep the wine there. A fridge isn't needed as long as you can keep it relatively consistent. Especially if you are going to consume within a couple of years...

Temps for storage below 65 degrees is best and I think the ideal temp is supposed to be something like 55 f. In reality you store it in the space available. Also I prefer to bottle at warmer temps than storage, that aids in reducing any temp induced pressure buildup. A properly seated cork isn't likely to pop just because of that but,.... I just prefer, if possible, to take a few precautions.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Great, thanks! When filling, do I fill all the way to the top, and once I take it out, that will be the amount of space left for the cork?



That is the way it is designed, and, IME, is generally pretty close. You may have to adjust a bit one way or the other.


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## Bossbaby (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> In the fridge or no?


you should store your blackberry wine in a cool dark place on there side, if it's a sweeter wine you may enjoy it refrigerated b4 drinking..


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 3, 2021)

New video by Dawn Parks







photos.app.goo.gl


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 3, 2021)

I believe that is a .99.....?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 3, 2021)

jgmillr1 said:


> Cheers and Merry Christmas. My $0.02 is that your blackberry should be bottled sooner rather than later. Extra time risks oxidation which leads to fruit aroma degradation and potential spoilage. Hopefully you've kept up on the sulfites to protect the wine over the last year. You'll definitely need sorbate and the right amount of sulfites at bottling to protect the wine.
> 
> I've made blackberry for many years and try to bottle in as short of time as possible. I filter it though. Carboy "aging" in the context of home winemaking is a euphemism for letting time and gravity filter your wine. This comes with the risks mentioned above and ties up your container for next batch of wine waiting for those of us who are impatient.
> 
> The wonderful thing of fermenting the blackberries in their flesh is the extraction of tannin that stabilizes the color. Once you bottle, you'll be glad that the color isn't falling out as sediment. It will make a fantastic gift.


Sorbate and sulfites? I have been adding this at every racking. Is there something else I need for bottling?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 3, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Great Sunshine! There is no hard fast rule on what constitutes, dry, semi-sweet vs Sweet. Normally would call any unsweetened wine a Dry wine as long as the SG ended up below .998 (Just a WAG on that) Any wine you consider sweet would be a sweet wine. A dessert wine typically would be high alcohol along with being sweet.
> 
> The SG numbers after back-sweetening are generally what one would use to determine what to call it. (And what I put on bottles when I do that) BUT in reality it's your call. If' you think it's sweet - it's sweet, if you feel it's only slightly sweet you can call it semi-sweet or semi-dry. (maybe based on which it end it favors. I had a tart cherry wine that ended up with an SG of 1.014 which would often be considered sweet BUT because it had a high ABV (15%) and was so tart, you didn't taste any sweetness until the finish. So again for starting out - Just go what what it seems like to you.
> 
> You label only needs to have on it what you want to remember about that wine. The ABV is basically the number you get when you calculate it using your starting and ending SG's unless you did a step feed of sugar or topped off with another wine. You kinda assume that if you didn't water it done or try to raise the ABV with a higer ABV wine or straight alcohol (Everclear/Vodka) then that calculated ABV is what I would put on the bottle. ( I just use this online calculator in my wine making: Alcohol By Volume ABV Calculator - Brewer's Friend


Ok, do I calculate from the SG reading prior to fermentation or when I racked after fermentation was over? This calculation is once fermentation was over....


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## Bossbaby (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> I believe that is a .99.....?


.999


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## sour_grapes (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Sorbate and sulfites? I have been adding this at every racking. Is there something else I need for bottling?



It was not clear to me whether or not, in the end, you decided to add sugar to backsweeten. If so, then yes, you need to add potassium sorbate in addition to the potassium metabisulfite, as @jgmillr1 indicated.



Sunshine Wine said:


> Ok, do I calculate from the SG reading prior to fermentation or when I racked after fermentation was over? This calculation is once fermentation was over....



What are you trying to calculate? If you are trying to calculate ABV, then use the SG reading prior to fermentation as your starting SG, and the final SG (before backsweetening) as your ending SG.

If you are trying to judge sweetness (off-dry, etc.), use the difference between your final SG (before backsweetening) and the SG after you added your sugar.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 3, 2021)

ABV is found by entering the original SG taken just before you started the Fermentation as your "Original SG" and the SG reading when fermentation was completely finished as the "Final SG" I looked back and found that at one point the SG (Before adding any Sugar) was at 1.026 - Did you add some sugar and take a new reading? That new reading taken hopefully very shortly before adding your yeast - That would be your "OG" Let's assume that you pushed it up to 1.066 before adding yeast - In that case if you ended up with a final SG of .998 then your ABV is 8.93. A tad low but still a viable wine. It will just need to be properly protected with your K-Meta which you indicate you have been doing at racking time.

To determine how sweet your wine is "by the numbers" you simply take a new SG reading of the wine once you have back-sweetened the batch. KEY POINT - Those numbers are just that - numbers - How sweet the wine is - that's what you determine with your taste buds and that's what matters most. If you are going to base the sweetness description by the measurements using the percentage of Sugar then Sour-grapes has given you that method. 

For me I just make sure first, that I like the way it tastes - once that is where I want it - THEN I take an SG reading. The impact of the numerical sweetness is just a book number because the tartness, strength of flavor and the Alcohol content will all impact your perceived sweetness but again that perception is what matters most when you and friends are drinking your wine.

Have you been adding sorbate at every racking or just K-Meta? Sorbate only needs to be added once and it's most effective if added just before back-sweetening.


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 3, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> In the fridge or no?


No. The sulfites, alcohol, sorbate and acidity will preserve them for a couple years no prob.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 4, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Great Sunshine! There is no hard fast rule on what constitutes, dry, semi-sweet vs Sweet. Normally would call any unsweetened wine a Dry wine as long as the SG ended up below .998 (Just a WAG on that) Any wine you consider sweet would be a sweet wine. A dessert wine typically would be high alcohol along with being sweet.
> 
> The SG numbers after back-sweetening are generally what one would use to determine what to call it. (And what I put on bottles when I do that) BUT in reality it's your call. If' you think it's sweet - it's sweet, if you feel it's only slightly sweet you can call it semi-sweet or semi-dry. (maybe based on which it end it favors. I had a tart cherry wine that ended up with an SG of 1.014 which would often be considered sweet BUT because it had a high ABV (15%) and was so tart, you didn't taste any sweetness until the finish. So again for starting out - Just go what what it seems like to you.
> 
> You label only needs to have on it what you want to remember about that wine. The ABV is basically the number you get when you calculate it using your starting and ending SG's unless you did a step feed of sugar or topped off with another wine. You kinda assume that if you didn't water it done or try to raise the ABV with a higer ABV wine or straight alcohol (Everclear/Vodka) then that calculated ABV is what I would put on the bottle. ( I just use this online calculator in my wine making: Alcohol By Volume ABV Calculator - Brewer's Friend


Ok, this is my calculations. I did add sugar initially and took the SG reading right after. It is possibly off, since I am new at this, but should give me a round about ABV. What do you think S
cooter68?


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## Scooter68 (Jan 4, 2021)

Hmmm something seems off there. I don't know of any wine yeast that will ferment to over 18% under the best conditions. Did you perhaps mis-read and it's actually 1.107 that would result in a wine with 14.31% ABV and much more likely. That starting SG just looks a bit too high.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 4, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Hmmm something seems off there. I don't know of any wine yeast that will ferment to over 18% under the best conditions. Did you perhaps mis-read and it's actually 1.107 that would result in a wine with 14.31% ABV and much more likely. That starting SG just looks a bit too high.


Haha... probably! I didn't know how to read that thing at first! That sounds more like it.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 4, 2021)

Most important is that as long as the ABV is at least 9-10% and you have a good pH along with the K-Meta additions, your wine should keep nicely. Don't worry about misr-reading the hydrometer. There are so many ways to make a mistake. Next time if you are unsure, just take a snapshot and post it here. Folks will be glad to help get a good reading for you.

If your wine is at or over about 14% you should be able to get a distinct Alcohol burn feel from it especially before you back-sweeten it.


Now I have to go back out side and keep pruning my blueberry bushes. They got a little out of control this year after the picking season.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 4, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Most important is that as long as the ABV is at least 9-10% and you have a good pH along with the K-Meta additions, your wine should keep nicely. Don't worry about misr-reading the hydrometer. There are so many ways to make a mistake. Next time if you are unsure, just take a snapshot and post it here. Folks will be glad to help get a good reading for you.
> 
> If your wine is at or over about 14% you should be able to get a distinct Alcohol burn feel from it especially before you back-sweeten it.
> 
> ...


Yes, it was quite strong before I added any sweetener when we tasted it yesterday. I added the k-meta and racked it back to my carboy and gallon jugs while I wait for the corks and sorbate to arrive. Will add the sorbate and back sweeten and then bottle. The corks info said I should NOT soak them as I have seen recommended. I know I need to sanitize them...so what should I do?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 4, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Most important is that as long as the ABV is at least 9-10% and you have a good pH along with the K-Meta additions, your wine should keep nicely. Don't worry about misr-reading the hydrometer. There are so many ways to make a mistake. Next time if you are unsure, just take a snapshot and post it here. Folks will be glad to help get a good reading for you.
> 
> If your wine is at or over about 14% you should be able to get a distinct Alcohol burn feel from it especially before you back-sweeten it.
> 
> ...


Also, the PH is just under 3.6


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## hounddawg (Jan 4, 2021)

@Sunshine Wine ,, on all my fruit and berry wines i run up to 17% to 18%,ABV,,, but i use double to triple the weight on my fruits and berries, i finish all my wines at FG of 1.040, zero alcohol taste, excerpt skeeter pee port, it i run up same as the others but just before i bottle i add 750 ml pure grain alcohol 190 proof,, to 6 gallons of skeeter pee, and again my FG is 1.040, smooth as silk, 
Dawg


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## Bossbaby (Jan 4, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> ABV is found by entering the original SG taken just before you started the Fermentation as your "Original SG" and the SG reading when fermentation was completely finished as the "Final SG" I looked back and found that at one point the SG (Before adding any Sugar) was at 1.026 - Did you add some sugar and take a new reading? That new reading taken hopefully very shortly before adding your yeast - That would be your "OG" Let's assume that you pushed it up to 1.066 before adding yeast - In that case if you ended up with a final SG of .998 then your ABV is 8.93. A tad low but still a viable wine. It will just need to be properly protected with your K-Meta which you indicate you have been doing at racking time.
> 
> To determine how sweet your wine is "by the numbers" you simply take a new SG reading of the wine once you have back-sweetened the batch. KEY POINT - Those numbers are just that - numbers - How sweet the wine is - that's what you determine with your taste buds and that's what matters most. If you are going to base the sweetness description by the measurements using the percentage of Sugar then Sour-grapes has given you that method.
> 
> ...





Sunshine Wine said:


> Yes, it was quite strong before I added any sweetener when we tasted it yesterday. I added the k-meta and racked it back to my carboy and gallon jugs while I wait for the corks and sorbate to arrive. Will add the sorbate and back sweeten and then bottle. The corks info said I should NOT soak them as I have seen recommended. I know I need to sanitize them...so what should I do?


If you have a floor corker you wont need to prepare the corks, they are sanitary as long as there kept sealed in the packaging, I keep extras in a zip lock bag.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 4, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> If you have a floor corker you wont need to prepare the corks, they are sanitary as long as there kept sealed in the packaging, I keep extras in a zip lock bag.


I do have a floor corker!


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## hounddawg (Jan 4, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> I do have a floor corker!


just my .2 cents worth, I've never sanitized a cork, i keep mine in gallon freezer bags up high on a shelf, i wash my hands before touching anything in my wine room, i keep at the door face masks because i have a permeant tracheostomy tube ,, and i keep exam gloves as well at the door to my wine room, but I'm the type that if i drank out of the milk jug I'd throw the milk away before putting it back in the fridge, funny thing is I'm single, home is a mess, typical Dude, lol,, but when it comes to my food or drink, i tolerate zero. shucks half my home is tool storage, saddles, you name it, OMG, but i was raised where i never got in the fridge growing up, mom would get every thing even if we 4 boys got thirsty at 2 am, we were dotted over, my manners stuck, my respect stuck , my food and drink stuck, hehe everything else went to heck in a basket, lol
Dawg


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## Scooter68 (Jan 4, 2021)

The pH you mention is on the high side but not out of reason. I prefer my finished wine to be 3.4 or lower but 3.6 is OK too.

As for corks - If they come in what appears to be a factory sealed bag, then you should be able to use them as it. Some folks do a quick dip in a sanitizer and then put them on a paper towel until they use them (In a short time) Some folks make what someone called a "corkador" basically a pretty strong solution of K-meta in the bottom of a jar and then put a baffle or some sort in there to keep the corks out of the solution but in the air and put a lid on. And some just put them in a basket Large jar and give quick spritiz of a strong k-Meta solution into the jar, put a lid on and let them sit there while they bottle the wine up. By strong I am guessing that they use like a teaspoon of K-meta in a quart or gallon for their spray or corkador solution. I use starsan and do just a quick dip and put them on a paper towel while I bottle up the wine. What you don't want to do is use wet/damp corks as they can slip out to easily.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 4, 2021)

Printed some labels! I like this design! What do y'all think???


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## Bossbaby (Jan 4, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Printed some labels! I like this design! What do y'all think???View attachment 70086


That will look very nice against a blackberry backdrop!


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## Scooter68 (Jan 4, 2021)

Very Nice


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## Scooter68 (Jan 4, 2021)

By the way if you want to add a little bit of color to your labels you can look at the colored artist paint pens. I used a deep red one of them to make a "Swoosh" across underneath my Plum wine name. A pen like this from Hobby Lobby. They have all kinds of pens some with wide chisel shaped tips


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## winemaker81 (Jan 5, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Getting old labels off the bottles and getting them washed up! Any suggestions for printing your own labels? I'm getting excited!


I really like the look of your label!

I took @Scooter68's advice with the Avery labels, although when I checked the package I purchased, I have Presta 94215 instead of the 94212 (don't recall why I have a different product). These labels have a plastic-like finish, can be re-centered if you goof while applying a label, and don't wrinkle in high humidity. Plus they peel off cleanly with no residue.

Mine are 6 labels per sheet and fit a bottle like this:




I prefer Bordeaux bottles as they stack better on their sides, and I place the labels low so they match when I use non-Bordeaux bottles.

For split bottles which I use for dessert wines and liqueurs, I have used a shorter label, although the 94215 fits on splits.




For non-dry wines, I list the residual sugar. I use the SG from when fermentation was complete and the final SG to calculate the residual sugar. [Recently I realized I was doing the calculation wrong. Oh well!]

The desktop version of Avery's Design & Print (which I use) is no longer offered -- Avery wants folks to use their on-line product. I tried it some years back and the online version used fonts my printer did not support, and printed a batch of really ugly labels before I realized. The current version is probably better than it was, but I get consistently good results with the desktop version, so I stick with it.

EDIT -- @Scooter68 reports that current online tool produces a PDF, so the printer font problem no longer exists.

I'm already designing my labels for this year's wine:




Design & Print lets me set a background image and place objects (text, pictures) where I want. This tool is designed to print labels, so I create one label and it prints 6 on the sheet (templates are available for ALL Avery products). [I'm sure other products do this as well.]

I made the background by opening a picture in Paint.NET (free graphics program) and washing it out (fading it). An unfaded picture made the text very hard to read, and dominated the label.

I had access to a color laser printer pre-COVID, but printed last year's wine labels at Staples (office supply) at a reasonable cost -- they let me bring in my media. I'm looking to purchase a personal color laser printer.

Regarding what to call the wine? Yes -- whatever you want! The pictured bottle is a 2019 2nd run blend of all my grapes from that year, so I unimaginatively called it "Red Blend". The Black Forest is a RJ Spagnols dessert wine kit, which was formerly marketed as "port", although they removed that name probably due to copyright and/or trademark infringement. Since I'm not so constrained as a non-commercial winery, I use "Port" on the label. Other names include "Merlot", "Zinfandel", "Elderberry", "Elderberry Port", etc.

The proposed label for next year is a blend of Bordeaux grapes grown in California, so I selected "Meritage", which is the name selected by the Meritage Alliance to avoid copyright infringement for member wineries marketing Bordeaux-style blends. [Member wineries pay a fee to use the name, but I'm not a commercial winery and my wine will never go beyond family and friends, so I am ok with using the name.]

Edit -- my brother-in-law makes up names as he's making the labels. Some were obviously created following extensive quality control, e.g., he was obviously lit. One name I remember is "Just Peachy" for a (you guessed it!) a peach wine that tasted just like a fresh peach. Unfortunately he only made 5 gallons of it ....


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## Scooter68 (Jan 5, 2021)

Never had font issues with the Avery site but I did have an issue with drifting labels. Their tech support provided a fix that worked the first time I used it but.... the issue returned. Then I bought a color laser printer (Same one I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread.) It has worked without issues since then. So I suspect a lot of potential issues with label printing have to do with settings on the printer and in their program. My labels are downloaded as PDF files so the font really isn't an issue for me. 

What works for you best is what matters.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 5, 2021)

@Scooter68, thanks for the update, it's been a number of years since I used Avery's online tool. I have updated my post to reflect this.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Getting ready to bottle!! Wish me luck!!


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Yes, the dry, semi-sweet or dessert was what I wondered about. How do I know what it is considered? Not sure how to figure ABV, either...lol. I'm leaning toward a table or dessert wine because I like it sweeter. Will keep researching! I'm going to go with my title on here: "Sunshine Wine". Just trying to figure out what all to put on my label. Thanks for all your help!


Sunshine Wine reminds me of a quote from Galileo, 
"Wine is Sunlight held together by water"


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Is this about right? I used the bottle filler and when I took it out, this is how much space is left...


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Is this about right? I used the bottle filler and when I took it out, this is how much space is left...


Is there suppose to be a picture included ?


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## winemaker81 (Jan 8, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Is this about right? I used the bottle filler and when I took it out, this is how much space is left...


The bottle fillers I've used displace enough wine that when I fill a bottle to the brim, when the tube is removed, the wine level drops to a proper level.


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

You want enough space left for the cork to be seated without spillage.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Sorry forgot to post the picture..lol.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 8, 2021)

The wine level looks a bit low. When filling, let the wine rise to the rim of the bottle before stopping. Put a paper towel beneath to catch drippage, and wipe the bottle if necessary. With a bit of practice, you'll spill very little wine.

If you have a full bottle of that style, compare it to yours, they should be close. In general, you want 1/2" to 3/4" between the bottom of the cork and the wine.


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

As mentioned from winemaker81, fill to the brim with the bottle filler then once you remove the bottle filler the level in the bottle will be at the proper height to insert the cork with no spillage.


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## my wine (Jan 8, 2021)

I would fill it a bit more. Maybe the length of the cork plus another inch is all the spacing you would need.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

That is with the bottle filler....


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Hold a cork up to the side of the bottle with the top of the cork even with the top of the bottle. Your looking for a level of 3/4" under the cork. If the level is lower then raise the level to that 3/4" below the cork level.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 8, 2021)

My filler tube is ancient, I don't believe this type has been made in a long time. However, I think the modern tubes have the same displacement.




After pulling the tube, my level is:




With a 1.5" cork, I have about 3/4" ullage (air space).


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Also, don't forget to leave the bottles standing up after corking for 3 to 4 days to allow the head space above the wine level under the cork to equalize with the outside atmosphere pressure. Then you can store the bottles on their side to keep the corks moist.


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> My filler tube is ancient, I don't believe this type has been made in a long time. However, I think the modern tubes have the same displacement.
> 
> View attachment 70229
> 
> ...


This looks correct for corking.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

I'm having trouble with the corker, it doesn't seem to be centered so the cork looks like it's trying to go in a little crooked. I'm also afraid to force it. I don't want to break the bottle....


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

What type of corker is it?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Rembee said:


> What type of corker is it?


A floor corker


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

This the cork after I have tried putting it in...


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## winemaker81 (Jan 8, 2021)

It's a Portuguese corker. If you are using regular wine bottles, not screw caps, you won't break the bottle.

I have an Italian corker, bigger heavier, but does the same thing. The piece that pushes the cork in (no idea what it is called) is not centered on the hole. My corks go in skewed, so I turn the bottle and push again, which settles the cork. I'm going to send pictures, will take a few minutes.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> It's a Portuguese corker. If you are using regular wine bottles, not screw caps, you won't break the bottle.
> 
> I have an Italian corker, bigger heavier, but does the same thing. The piece that pushes the cork in (no idea what it is called) is not centered on the hole. My corks go in skewed, so I turn the bottle and push again, which settles the cork. I'm going to send pictures, will take a few minutes.


I have some screw top bottles...


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

It's not even getting it through the hole right....I got it for free from someone here on the forum....now I have all my bottles filled and the corker is not working....


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## winemaker81 (Jan 8, 2021)

The cork is a larger diameter than the bottle. The corker not only pushes the cork into the bottle, it compresses the corks.

Really important -- when you put the bottle into the corker, make sure the mouth lines up with the hole in the corker. You can look down from the top to see. The hole is probably lined up with the far side of the jaws.




When you pull the lever down, the jaws move in, compressing the cork over the hole, then pushing it into the bottle.




DO NOT cork screwcap bottles. The neck is not reinforced to handle the pressure, and the bottle can shatter. You can use screw caps, put the original cap on and screw on as tightly as you can. Turn the bottle upside down, if it doesn't leak, you're good.


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Is the cork inserter rod bent? In your picture of the floor corker it looks like it is


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Maybe.. I didn't know if it was supposed to be curved...


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Here is the result with my husband's help...


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

I would siphon the wine back into your carboy and put it back under an airlock until you can fix this corker or at least buy a hand corker


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Do you have a hand corker?


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## winemaker81 (Jan 8, 2021)

The rod is curved, as the corking mechanism rotates downward in an arc.

It appears the corker needs adjusting.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Rembee said:


> Do you have a hand corker?


No, I don't...


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Well, rather then risk your wine I would put it back in a carboy under a airlock for now until you can resolve this issue. It definitely needs an adjustment. 
What size are the corks?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

Rembee said:


> Well, rather then risk your wine I would put it back in a carboy under a airlock for now until you can resolve this issue. It definitely needs an adjustment.
> What size are the corks?


#8


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## Rembee (Jan 8, 2021)

Those are a standard size and should work just fine. I would order a hand corker for now until you can get this one working. 
This is a link to a decent back up hand corker


https://www.amazon.com/Home-Portugese-Double-Level-Corker/dp/B000FRWJNE/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=hand+bottle+corker&qid=1610143686&sprefix=hand+bottle+cor&sr=8-3


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## sour_grapes (Jan 8, 2021)

What is the source of the wine bottle? It doesn't look like a standard one -- Could it be undersized? A #8 cork should go in easily.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 8, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> What is the source of the wine bottle? It doesn't look like a standard one -- Could it be undersized? A #8 cork should go in easily.


Most are from Biltmore.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 8, 2021)

Biltmore (estate in NC) uses standard bottles, so while that bottle looks odd, it's within standard wine bottle specs. The wife & I visited Biltmore in August, and all the wines we tasted were in "normal" bottles.


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## bstnh1 (Jan 9, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Sorry forgot to post the picture..lol.



You should wind up with *about* 1 1/2" - 1 3/4" space below the bottom of the cork.


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## TurkeyHollow (Jan 9, 2021)

I think the 1/2" air space from the bottom of the inserted cork is the best target to shoot for. The withdrawal method can vary in results - especially if some of your bottles are flat bottom and some have a deep punt.


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## CDrew (Jan 12, 2021)

The picture you show does not look like a standard bottle. It looks like a bottle that takes a T cork. The neck is wrong for standard #8s and #9s.

For a quick test, get a standard corked bottle of cheap wine at the grocery store. Pull out the cork. Then re-cork with your red corker. If it works, the fault is your bottles. If it doesn't, then the fault is your corker.

#8 corks are smaller than standard wine corks and so should go in easily as they don't require as much compression. In your picture, the cork was badly mangled by something.

Regarding ullage, I shoot for 1/2 inch. More than that is just more oxygen.

Good luck. I'm guessing different standard wine bottles will solve the problem.


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## bstnh1 (Jan 13, 2021)

Am I the only one who shoots for 1 1/2" ullage??? I've done that all along based on Tim Vandergrift saying you want ullage to be about the width of two fingers. Read that years ago and just stuck with it.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 13, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> Am I the only one who shoots for 1 1/2" ullage???


If it's working for you? It's fine.

In my early years, I didn't pay any attention to the ullage. I was told to fill the bottles to the brim, pull out the filler rod, and that was the correct wine level. Narrow bottles have more ullage, wider bottles have less -- the volume is the volume of the stick.

I've noticed differences in commercial wine bottles -- some seem to have more ullage than others, and while I haven't measured, 1.5" is a possibility.

Like many things, it may be that we're assigning more importance to ullage than is necessary. Yes, air contact needs to be controlled, but the range of acceptable ullage may be wider than we realize.


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## NoQuarter (Jan 13, 2021)

I just use my bottle filler and leave space left after pulling out. Leaves about an inch... I have never had an issue.
Maybe I should do some research.... Something new to worry about.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 13, 2021)

I use 3/4 of an inch measured with my micrometer that's accurate to .01" 

Actually I just eyeball it. probably 3/4" or about the same as the cork diameter. I figure the oxygen is so little and since I store my bottle on their sides, very little additional O2 is getting in. I'm not keeping wines for 5 to 10 years. All of my original wine batches of 5 1/2 years ago are gone now and I figure most will never hit the 5 year mark. So I prefer to focus on what I view as more important, clean, sanitized bottles proper corking and then a shrink cap for good measure and looks. Having done that, I figure that's all that's really critical. As others have said wine making has been happening for centuries before we had any of our wonderful chemicals and equipment, some of which have only been around less than 50 years. I'm not too worried.


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## Rembee (Jan 13, 2021)

@Sunshine Wine how did you make out with your wine/bottling?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 13, 2021)

Rembee said:


> @Sunshine Wine how did you make out with your wine/bottling?


I have 35 bottles finished. The corks are not perfect, but they are sealed. I have let them sit up straight for a few days, so I will lay them on their side soon. I'm disappointed about the corks, but I have been told my blackberry wine is very good! Not too shabby for a first timer!! Thanks for asking!


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## Bossbaby (Jan 13, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> I have 35 bottles finished. The corks are not perfect, but they are sealed. I have let them sit up straight for a few days, so I will lay them on their side soon. I'm disappointed about the corks, but I have been told my blackberry wine is very good! Not too shabby for a first timer!! Thanks for asking!


What is your next batch going to be??


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## Rembee (Jan 13, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> I have 35 bottles finished. The corks are not perfect, but they are sealed. I have let them sit up straight for a few days, so I will lay them on their side soon. I'm disappointed about the corks, but I have been told my blackberry wine is very good! Not too shabby for a first timer!! Thanks for asking!


Your welcome! Just wanted to make sure all went well. I'm glad that your blackberry turned out enjoyable. Not to shabby and a lot of fun right? Lol 
Now on to your next fermentation ...wonder what it will be 
What ever it is you can count on one thing for sure, knowledge gained is never wasted and there will be a whole lot more to learn!
Looking forward to your next fermentation journey.... good luck


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 14, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> What is your next batch going to be??


Don't know! I got the home canned blackberry last year from a friend that got it from a friend that didn't have time to use it. It was a lot, so I couldn't make that much jelly! Found this forum and began my journey! Very interesting and I learned a lot!! Thanks to everyone who commented and gave me advice!! Y'all are awesome!!


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## Scooter68 (Jan 14, 2021)

Everyone has their own likes and dislikes but if you will permit me to make one or two suggestions. Black Currant is a very tart juice ( I was introduced to it at the East Berlin Museum in 1971 - We thought it was alcoholic but it was just very tart) Anyway it makes an excellent dessert wine - I ran across a source of Canned concentrate from the company "Vintner's Harvest" Right now you can get a 96 oz can that makes a 3 gallon batch of a very solid flavor wine for $25.00. They also have the same size can of Blackberry Concentrate for $10.00 (It's past the "Sell by Date" but should still be good.) Since you've already made Blackberry the Black Currant would be a little different and not expensive at that price. Here's a link to the company that has both on sale right now. At least 2 other folks on this board have ordered it - my order came in yesterday and the "Past Sell By Date" on my cans is Sept 2020 for the Blackberry and I think they are pushing the Black Currant because mine have a "Sell by" Date of June 2021 of that should be fine. Those dates are not "Expiration"dates but just guidance to sellers that they are considered higher risk to not be good tasting after that Date. Found out through some research that those date are not driven by any national law but rather a patchwork quilt of state rules AND the states make them use different terms as well.









Vintners Harvest Fruit Base and Puree


Vintners' Harvest fruit base is used to make 5 gallons of fruit wine, add flavor or can be used to make some fantastic fruit mead, similar to those of Ken Schramm the father of American Mead.




www.austinhomebrew.com





There are several other sources but most are going to be a bit more than this for their concentrate this just happens to be a good deal right now.

IF you want to go in another direction I've made a Pineapple/Mango wine that is really nice (Comes out a golden color) and you can use store bought Canned Pineapple Juice./Crushed Pineapple in natural juice and mangos (Bit messy to cut up but fun to nibble on while you do it. 

In any case - Great that your first batch finished out nicely and go bottled up well. 

By the way is your corker a second hand one? If so that might account for the problem with corks. It might need some adjusting or maybe in worst case, new jaws for compressing the corks. It sounds like it might not be closing and compressing the corks enough.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 14, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Black Currant is a very tart juice ( I was introduced to it at the East Berlin Museum in 1971 - We thought it was alcoholic but it was just very tart)



Now I mostly want to know what you were doing in East Berlin in 1971? I have a scary story from East Germany in 1972...


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 15, 2021)

Yes, I got it second hand from someone on here. I may check to see if there is a wine shop around Knoxville and take it to them or if they know someone who might be able to adjust it. The pineapple mango sounds yummy!! How much of each would I get if I were to make 4 gallons? Do I add any sugar in the beginning? Will have to purchase another hydrometer as I broke mine right after I finished needing it! Lol... Thanks for all your help!!


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## Scooter68 (Jan 15, 2021)

Sour - I was with a Church "Mission Group" and we toured the museum. The city was a drab drab place and the comparision to West Berlin could not have been more stark. The museum was really interesting - a lot of Egyptian Artifacts. (Most I think have been returned to Egypt now.) We were warned to be very careful if we got on the "S Bahn" because it went under the wall to a couple of stops in the East. That was the extent of it. DM me your story sometime. Interesting to hear about folks who lived/experienced the divided Germany that kids today have not concept about.

Sorry Sunshine for the Hijack of your thread. I do think the corker is in need of help and probably can be fixed with some tinkering.

As to Pineapple mango - I'll repost here a little later when I get my wine record book from the other house (Winerey.)


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 25, 2021)

Ordered a wine rack from Amazon! Perfect!!


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## Rembee (Jan 25, 2021)

That's a really nice rack!


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 25, 2021)

Rembee said:


> That's a really nice rack!


Haha...thanks!!


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## Rembee (Jan 25, 2021)

No pund intended lol. Is that the bamboo wooden rack?


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 25, 2021)

Rembee said:


> No pund intended lol. Is that the bamboo wooden rack?


No worries! Yes, it sure is! It's perfect for the amount of wine bottles I have.


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## Rembee (Jan 25, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> No worries! Yes, it sure is! It's perfect for the amount of wine bottles I have.


So are those the bottles that gave you so much grief? 
If they are, looks like the corks are holding up well. No leaks huh?


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## Bossbaby (Jan 25, 2021)

very nice, there is so much space there for more wine better start another batch!


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 25, 2021)

Rembee said:


> So are those the bottles that gave you so much grief?
> If they are, looks like the corks are holding up well. No leaks huh?


Yes, those are the bottles that the corks are wonky in. They all sealed and there have been no leaks so far. I had to get rid of about 10 of the empty bottles, so my husband drank a half gallon over the last few weeks. I still have one whole gallon in a glass jar with an air lock on it...lol. The corks not going in right have disappointed me, but it is what it is. The corker was free and it looks like it was well used before I got it, so I'm not sure if it's worth having it looked at...


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 25, 2021)

You know, I can't do much better than my first try! Juice was free, bottles were free, corker was free, bottle drying rack was free....all I had to do was buy the fermenting supplies, some buckets, a carboy, and the other hardware items. It sure has been an experience. I'm lucky it even turned out!! Lol. Thanks for everyone's help! Not sure if I will do more wine...kind of nervous about doing it again. I've learned a lot, but there's a lot I still don't know. There are a lot of equipment items I don't have. Doing it this fairly simple way has been great.


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## hounddawg (Jan 25, 2021)

oh, don't give up now, it really does get easier,,, 
Dawg


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## Rembee (Jan 25, 2021)

I agree with Dawg, don't give up! It truly does get easier. 
This is a youtube link to show you how to change out the jaws on your corker. Just in case you decide to continue on your wine journey.

If you do decide that wine making is not for you then I wish you all the best!


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 25, 2021)

Rembee said:


> I agree with Dawg, don't give up! It truly does get easier.
> This is a youtube link to show you how to change out the jaws on your corker. Just in case you decide to continue on your wine journey.
> 
> If you do decide that wine making is not for you then I wish you all the best!



Thanks! Will check it out and see if I can fix it!


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## Scooter68 (Jan 25, 2021)

The three things I can think of that might cause that are:
1) Jaws not compressing the corks properly
2) Corks not lined up with bottle opening
3) The bottle stand is moving down as the cork is pushed into the bottle OR The stand the bottle sits on not being adjusted up high enough.

From the look of those corks I would almost bet that it's primarily caused by number 3 above.

There shouldn't be any light showing between the top of the bottle and the underside of the corker head. I'm attaching a link to a YouTube video showing a corker with an adjustable bottle stand. The important part is that as that cork is pushed into the bottle, that bottle cannot move down , the stand has to lock into the correct height or the cork will pop out to the side like yours seem to have done.

My corker works a little different. On mine the bottle rests on pad that does not move up or down but corker head does move and as I cork a bottle I use on hand to hold the head down and the other to operate the cork plunger. I can lock the head at a specific height but I just prefer to use the second handle.

In both types of operation, there should be virtually no space between the bottle top and the corker head.

By no means am I an expert on this but it seems to me that the corks are popping out because of an incorrect operation of the bottle stand. IF your corker has a moving head as mine does, then the head has to remain right there pretty much resting on the top of the bottle but not applying pressure on the bottle.



* More Common Floor corker ----------------------- Italian Table Top Corker *(This is what I have)


*Table Top Italian Corker *


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## NoQuarter (Jan 26, 2021)

Other than your corking experience everything seemed to work out. By getting some age on those bottles you should have something to be proud of.
I only make about 24-36 gallons most years and I have only used a cheap Portugal corker from amazon. Under 20 bucks and after soaking my corks for a minute or two in star-san solution, # 8 corks go right in. The experts on this site prefer #9 corks and floor corkers but I don't keep any wine for more than 4-5 years and never had any problems doing 30 bottles at a time.


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## Old Corker (Jan 26, 2021)

I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I don't do sweet wine so the recipe part of the discussion was only passing interest to me but the rest was informative and interesting. A great example of the best of this forum. @Sunshine Wine to have started this on a whim, ending up where you did was a fantastic result IMO. I hope you don't leave it as you may have a bright future in home wine making.
Good luck!


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## mainshipfred (Jan 26, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> You know, I can't do much better than my first try! Juice was free, bottles were free, corker was free, bottle drying rack was free....all I had to do was buy the fermenting supplies, some buckets, a carboy, and the other hardware items. It sure has been an experience. I'm lucky it even turned out!! Lol. Thanks for everyone's help! Not sure if I will do more wine...kind of nervous about doing it again. I've learned a lot, but there's a lot I still don't know. There are a lot of equipment items I don't have. Doing it this fairly simple way has been great.



 Quitter, don't be like that, your posts are very interesting. I enjoy reading them and the responses you get.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 26, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Quitter, don't be like that, your posts are very interesting. I enjoy reading them and the responses you get.


Haha....don't think I'll quit, but just have to see what comes my way next!!


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 26, 2021)

Old Corker said:


> I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed this thread. I don't do sweet wine so the recipe part of the discussion was only passing interest to me but the rest was informative and interesting. A great example of the best of this forum. @Sunshine Wine to have started this on a whim, ending up where you did was a fantastic result IMO. I hope you don't leave it as you may have a bright future in home wine making.
> Good luck!


Thank you so much! It's great to get all the encouragement! Everyone has been a huge help!


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## Rembee (Jan 26, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Thank you so much! It's great to get all the encouragement! Everyone has been a huge help!


That's what this forum is all about as you well know. I foresee a time in the not so far further that *you *will be given advice to other's!


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## Bossbaby (Jan 26, 2021)

Kit wines may be a good way to get your groove on!


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## hounddawg (Jan 26, 2021)

don't put pressure on yourself, you ain't got to please anyone but yourself,,, just enjoy the journey, for me the whole point is a mindless no pressure hobby, and you get the joy of if it ain't so tasty ,, you can enjoy making your husband drink it,,, lol
Dawg


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 26, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> don't put pressure on yourself, you ain't got to please anyone but yourself,,, just enjoy the journey, for me the whole point is a mindless no pressure hobby, and you get the joy of if it ain't so tasty ,, you can enjoy making your husband drink it,,, lol
> Dawg


Lol..


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## gsf77 (Jan 29, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> Ordered a wine rack from Amazon! Perfect!!View attachment 70845


That’s not nearly big enough


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 29, 2021)

gsf77 said:


> That’s not nearly big enough


Haha!


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## Scooter68 (Jan 29, 2021)

_gsf77 said "That’s not nearly big enough "_

I was thinking the same thing. Here's my wine rack as of yesterday morning. But we can cut Sunshine some slack, she's just getting started. Give her a couple of years.


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 29, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> _gsf77 said "That’s not nearly big enough "_
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. Here's my wine rack as of yesterday morning. But we can cut Sunshine some slack, she's just getting started. Give her a couple of years.
> 
> View attachment 70948


What do you have in those flip top bottles on the left of the picture?


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## Scooter68 (Jan 29, 2021)

Sunshine Wine said:


> What do you have in those flip top bottles on the left of the picture?


Hard Apple Cider


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## Sunshine Wine (Jan 29, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Hard Apple Cider


Cool! Is that hard to do?


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## Scooter68 (Jan 29, 2021)

Actually it's pretty simple. I do check the SG but the idea is to let the Apple Juice ferment without any additional sugar. You adjust the pH add the standard recipe additives: Pectic enzyme, Yeast Nutrient, and wine Tannin if desired. I did not add any tannin. If you want to make it "au natural" you can bottle sooner and not wait for it to clear - just say "I just opened the top and let the wild yeast do it's thing." (Of course I forgot - yeah, add yeast too, we don't want to go overboard with the 'natural idea." ) 

If you look at the picture, beside those snap-top bottles are some dark bottles with a brown label. That is also Apple cider but for it I sweetened it up with Honey instead of Sugar.
The only issue I had was that the second batch was flat tasting, then I checked the pH (This was as I was getting ready to bottle it) SURPRISE, the pH was 3.87 and that's way too high (Not near enough acidity) I added acid blend and brougt it down to 3.43 and then bottled it. By the way IF you do any additions to a batch like that - wait a day or two before bottling. That second batch of cider with the new acid blend dropped about 3/4 of white sediment overnight. Before bottling I siphoned off of that since I'm not certain what that was. Taste was still excellent and definitely had that honey sweetened taste.

All that to say - it's pretty easy to make if you can find some Raw Apple Juice and even if it has some preservatives it should still work fine, just might take a little longer. Just make sure it isn't watered down/reconstituted juice. I'm pretty certain they take liberties with that sort of juice and add extra water, I mean who is really going to check that, after all they say "reconstituted" or "From Concentrate" right on the label so how much water is too much. Just an extra 2-3 percent adds to the makers bottom line.

So yeah find some pure non-reconstituted Apple Juice and go for it. (And I have heard people say that they literally just broke the seal on a gallon jug and then let ir ferment on it own. Could be risk if it foamed up but...


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## hounddawg (Jan 29, 2021)

mussel man apple cider unfiltered at wal-mart, will work
Dawg


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## Scooter68 (Jan 29, 2021)

By the way typically no sugar additions to straight apple juice will yield about 6.5-7.5 % ABV. At least that's what I've got from my home grown apples and a bottle of unfiltered pasteurized apple juice from our local orchard store. They are my peach source and apple juice if I need it.


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