# Need pruning advise



## Ct Winemaker (May 20, 2020)

Hello Folks,
These are Marquette vines that we planted 1year ago. They are from Double A and were classified as 1x. As you can see, they are doing great and are loaded with grapes. 

question is what to do about shoot pruning and grape removal. Since we are new to growing grape, we really aren’t sure how much if any to prune / remove. 

How would you prune / handle these vines? 

would you let them produce fruit this year or remove all berries?

thank you very much


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## wood1954 (May 20, 2020)

Develop the cordons and remove the suckers on the vertical stem. Every thing I’ve read says to not allow grapes for three years, but your plants look like you could get a cluster on each plant
this year. Remember to spray for all the mildews.


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## Skashoon (May 21, 2020)

I concur with Wood and would add a couple things. Dependent upon your zone, leave a base sucker or two but pinch back the tips. This would give you a new trunk if your main trunks suffer injury. I’d pinch off all flower clusters this year, as they will not be ready to produce fruit this year. A small crop next year can be allowed. Clear the trunks Of other shoots up to the high wire by carefully snapping them off. Your objectives are to develop the roots and trunks. Keep up with spraying for fungi and pests. I see some chlorosis in a few leaves, an early sign of mildew. Clear the cordons to one shoot per node. Next year allow one cluster per spur in the third leaf. They vines look very nice and well-trained.

I also have Marquette from AA, yet mine is just starting bud swell. So I presume you’re in a warmer zone. I’m in zone 6a/b. Frontenac, Petite Pearl just broke buds a few days ago. Haha, so you’re way ahead of me. Since I see some big trees in the background, deer and other forest critters will need to be watched. Japanese beetles will be emerging soon too. They can decimate vineyards very rapidly. Good luck with your vineyard! Let me know if you have any more questions, I’ve grown grapes off and on for 25+ years in the upper Midwest. 
Skash


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## Ct Winemaker (May 21, 2020)

Skash, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. That is all extremely helpful and sincerely appreciated. We‘re in northeast Connecticut (zone 6a). Yes, the vines are growing incredibly well. Many Deer in the area, so far I have been able to keep them out with motion lights and deer spray! 

Appreciate your comment about fungus. I sprayed Mancozeb about 1 week ago, so plan another dose in a couple of days.

I‘ll go ahead and remove all the shoots on the trunks (keeping back ups where they may help). We also have St. Vincent and Chardonel, but the Marquette is way ahead of them (117 vines total, all planted last May, zero winter loss).

thanks again


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## Skashoon (May 21, 2020)

Ct Winemaker said:


> Skash, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. That is all extremely helpful and sincerely appreciated. We‘re in northeast Connecticut (zone 6a). Yes, the vines are growing incredibly well. Many Deer in the area, so far I have been able to keep them out with motion lights and deer spray!
> 
> Appreciate your comment about fungus. I sprayed Mancozeb about 1 week ago, so plan another dose in a couple of days.
> 
> ...


You’re welcome. It’s always good to alternate your fungicides because fungus/mildews will develop resistance. JMS Organic stylet oil is also useful. I keep several different fungicides to keep the fungi guessing. Also, be sure to check your vine variety for sensitivity to certain fungicides, especially copper and sulfur. Cornell University has a great website you can refer to, Washington State and some others as well. If you can test first by spraying on a couple leaves and wait 3 days, you will see if there is any Phytotoxicity. I’d suggest the organic stylet oil rather than mancozeb again. Organic JMS Stylet-Oil - Safe, Effective Pest Treatment
As always, good luck.
Skash


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## Skashoon (May 21, 2020)

There are also good videos on YouTube by the U of MN. Good discussions about vineyards, disease control including spraying routines, etc.
link:
Skash


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## wood1954 (May 24, 2020)

Last year the deer ate almost all my grape flowers in one night.


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## Skashoon (May 24, 2020)

wood1954 said:


> Last year the deer ate almost all my grape flowers in one night.


I’ve found success in the past with hanging bars of soap among the vines. I’ve also heard of one guy who set-up salt licks and feeding troughs along deer paths, but I’ve never tried that. I suppose the thinking is that if the deer find food before getting to your vines it may satiate them.


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## grapeman (May 26, 2020)

This is pretty good advice here. The flowers are nice and the vines are very well grown, but you need them to develop more this year. Marquette is a very prolific early grower and will produce the second year and even more the third year. Don't be tempted to grow the grapes this year although a few clusters won't hurt. Next year you can take a cluster every couple shoots. You need the vines to develop fully so they can overwinter well. If you get a large crop in the early years you will find the Marquette vines won't harden off the shoots well for winter. I have experimentally cropped three year old vines what they wanted to produce and got close to 40 pounds per vine. The shoots almost all died back almost to the cordon and had a much lighter crop the following year. Crops the vines lighter and you will see the shoots harden off a few feet instead of a few inches.


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## wood1954 (May 26, 2020)

Grapeman, do you recommend any cluster thinning on Marquett? This will be my best crop yet. I’m finding contradictory papers on thinning Marquette some say no need because they don’t produce much naturally and others say limit clusters. My 4&5 yr old vines are fairly vigorous and right now have two to four little clusters per shoot.


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## Newine (May 27, 2020)

I would cut back to two clusters per shoot. Noticed improvement in my numbers at harvest when I started doing that with all my hybrids. Just two cents.


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## Ct Winemaker (May 27, 2020)

grapeman, thank you very much. We have gone ahead and “shoot pruned” and have now removed all pf the grape clusters (except one vine, left 2 clusters per shoot - couldn’t resist). 

It was “ hard to do“ since it’s so tempting to let it fruit (for us new growers) bit we did it! Thanks for the complement on the vines, and thanks again for the great advice And support of Skash’s advice.


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## wood1954 (Jun 17, 2020)

Three weeks later and I see each shoot has only two clusters. One less thing to do.


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## sremick (Jun 19, 2020)

Boy, your 1-year marquette vines are a lot further along than mine that I planted last year.

They even make special soap to hang for deer. I have some on hand but haven't deployed them yet.


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## Ct Winemaker (Jun 19, 2020)

They are really doing well. This is what they look like now. Planted last May.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 19, 2020)

Ct Winemaker said:


> They are really doing well. This is what they look like now. Planted last May.



That is great! You mean May 2019, right?


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## BigH (Jun 19, 2020)

Side question, are you planning to add additional anchoring to your end posts, or is that the finished product?

H


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## Ct Winemaker (Jun 20, 2020)

Sour Grapes, Correct May 2019, planted about 13 months ago from Double A vineyards 1x plants. 

Big H, I don’t plan to anchor the end posts unless I see them begin to angle in. So far, they are perfectly straight. My rows are about 80 feet long, so not too long And there are two intermediate steel “t” posts in each row. The post are 8 inch diameter, buried about 2 ft We threw in a bag of cement along with stones when we placed them (Very gravely soil with lots of potato size stones).


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## BigH (Jun 21, 2020)

Ct Winemaker said:


> Big H, I don’t plan to anchor the end posts unless I see them begin to angle in. So far, they are perfectly straight. My rows are about 80 feet long, so not too long And there are two intermediate steel “t” posts in each row. The post are 8 inch diameter, buried about 2 ft.



Hope it works out for you. I have seen the end posts on my H braces pivot forward a few inches over the course of 7 years, and H braces move the tension load down near the ground so it has a shorter lever arm. The end posts are buried 4 feet deep.

If the vertical load of fruit and vines in that first section creates a 2.5 degree deflection in the wire, that load will be amplified by more than 20x as horizontal pull on the end post. The pull increases to 57x if the wire is tensioned to create only a 1 degree sag. This force amplification is the basis of an old trick for getting a vehicle unstuck without a tow vehicle. (not my drawing)




That tension amplification is then applied to an 8 ft lever pulling on the soil at the at the 2ft mark. This results in another 4x amplification. In total, the soil at the surface of the post has to hold back the weight of the vines and fruit multiplied by a factor of 80x to 240x. A single vine weighing 20 lbs in the middle of that span produces 1600-4800 lbs of force on the soil at the base of the post .... if I know what I am talking about, which is always up for debate.

Best of luck
H


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## sremick (Jun 22, 2020)

BigH said:


> In total, the soil at the surface of the post has to hold back the weight of the vines and fruit multiplied by a factor of 80x to 240x. A single vine weighing 20 lbs in the middle of that span produces 1600-4800 lbs of force on the soil at the base of the post .... if I know what I am talking about, which is always up for debate.



That's the best breakdown I've seen of this ever. Makes me feel better about the anchoring I did on my lines, which sort of felt over-engineered. Now I don't feel that.  (I use angled end post and an anchor, both of which are sunk in 2' into the ground. The auger-anger is actually not screwed in (as I was having trouble with my rocky soil) and instead dug a 2' hole and then put in a concrete plug, then heavy rocks on top before refilling. This was based on various diagrams I saw online for the best way to anchor rows longer than mine.


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