# Question about Secondary Fermentation



## Wannabe (Feb 22, 2011)

When you ferment to dry in the primary, should there be much activity in the secondary? I have a batch of orange wine made from fresh oranges that was fermented to dry and then moved to the secondary. There has been almost activity since it moved. I had put some zest in it and it just floats on the top. There are no bubbles coming up through the airlock. Is this normal when it's fermented to dry in the primary?


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## robie (Feb 22, 2011)

I am not sure what you mean by "dry", as there are varying degrees of dryness in a wine. Only an SG measurement can say how dry it is. Must of us think of dry as having all the sugars fermented out.

Based on that definition, if it has truly fermented to dry in the primary, there is nothing left to ferment in the secondary. If it is dry, there will be no further fermentation, but you might see some bubbles, which would be just CO2 bubbling up. 

I don't know your particular instructions, but at that point, the only reason for having a secondary would be to get some of the lees to mellow out the wine, as in the case of surlees.

Hope this helps.


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## Wannabe (Feb 22, 2011)

Maybe my termonology isn't right. My limited knowledge is based on the research I've been doing on here. I'd started it and there was almost no activity for 2 days after I pitched the yeast. I added a bit of yeast nutrient and it just took off. When stirred. it practically hissed at me. It worked out very quickly and on about day 5 of fermentation, the hydrometer reading plummited down to around 1. I had sort of understood that would be what I've seen referred to as fermenting to dry but maybe I misunderstood the expression. I was surprised at how quickly it dropped and moved it into the secondary with an airlock but pretty much seems to be just sitting there. Should I have transferred it over sooner?


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## cpfan (Feb 22, 2011)

Moving it around 1.000 on the hydrometer is a good time to move your wine. However, if fermenting to dry, you would not move the wine until the sg is constant 2-3 days in a row. This can be as low as .990 (in my experience).

Have you taken an sg reading since putting into the carboy?

BTW, sg readings are usually done as 3 decimal places, even if the last ones are zeroes. IE 1.000 or 1.080 or .995.

Steve


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## Julie (Feb 22, 2011)

What do you mean "around 1"? It would help if you posted your starting gravity and what it is now.


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## Wannabe (Feb 22, 2011)

I followed a recipe from this site using fresh oranges (in a bag). Mixed everything up and after 24 hrs, took the reading before pitching the yeast. Reading was 1.090. No reaction at all after 48+ hours so added some yeast nutrient. The following morning there was very very vigerous fermentation. It remained very active for the several days and then seemed to stop almost overnight. When I took a reading, if I am reading it correctly, it was at 1.000. At that point I sort of paniced and put it into the secondary and under an airlock because I was scared it would be getting exposed to oxygen when it probably shouldn't be. Since then I've only notice the very occasional bubble come through the airlock. Maybe that's normal?


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## djrockinsteve (Feb 23, 2011)

Moving to the carboy was correct. You should use your hydrometer to monitor your musts activity. Once it reaches 1.000 or lower watch for the reading to not decline anymore. A sign that all the sugar has beed consumed. After 2-3 days if it is no longer decling rack to a carboy, degass, add 1/4 teaspoon k-meta and if you wish something to expedite it's clearing. Place an airlock on top and give it 4 weeks to fully clear.

Should there be any fermentation going on it will cease in a day or two in the carboy. The air bubble you see is probably a final fermenting going on or it could be degassing. Only a hydrometer would know for sure.


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## wackywino (Feb 25, 2011)

*Another Question about Secondary Fermentation*

I am a true newbie, currently I am making an 18L Cellar Classic Red Mtn Cab and the kit instructions call for a secondary fermentation once SG is at or below 1.000. Starting SG for this was 1.117. Per the instructions, primary fermentation through 10 to 12 days or until SG at or below 1.000, rack into a carboy, secondary fermentation for 10-12 days until SG at or below 0.998, then start with clearing etc.

In this process, why do I want to rack the wine off the lees and to a carboy for the secondary fermentation?

Is the protection from air more critical as SG gets lower?

I've read through much of the secondary fermentation discussions here and they have been helpful...I'm just trying to understand how these two stages impact the wine.

Also, another dumb question - I've read that kits are typically not capable of undergoing ML...is this accurate?

Thank you in advance!


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## winemaker_3352 (Feb 25, 2011)

Welcome aboard!!

You should post an entry in the introduction thread and introduce yourself and what you have made and are wanting/going to make.

Yes as the SG lowers - there will be less CO2 to protect your wine. Also the gross lees, which is the lees left during primary, can be bad for your wine if left in contact too long.


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## cpfan (Feb 25, 2011)

wackywino said:


> I am a true newbie, currently I am making an 18L Cellar Classic Red Mtn Cab and the kit instructions call for a secondary fermentation once SG is at or below 1.000. Starting SG for this was 1.117. Per the instructions, primary fermentation through 10 to 12 days or until SG at or below 1.000, rack into a carboy, secondary fermentation for 10-12 days until SG at or below 0.998, then start with clearing etc.
> 
> In this process, why do I want to rack the wine off the lees and to a carboy for the secondary fermentation?
> 
> ...


wackywino:

Not real important to your questions, but do you mean Cellar Classic or Cellar Craft? I don't see a Red Mountain Cab in the Cellar Classic or Cellar Classic Winery Series listings.

As the sg gets lower, and the fermentation is less vigourous, it is good to protect your wine from air. However, some winemakers are fermenting to dry in the primary these days. It's just a different approach.

Yes, MLF is not good for most kits. The Heron Bay rep (who I haven't see messages from in a long time) said that some of their kits were OK for MLF. But I wouldn't trust that anymore. Heron Bay is under new ownership, and the kits are being made in another facility, and may have changed.

Steve


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## Eyeguy (Mar 18, 2011)

*Secondary Expanded...*

I am also doing the Red Mnt Cab by CC. I am about 6 days into primary and have a SG of 1.023. The gas production is much less obiviously now; but still expelling from the airlock about every 3-4 seconds. At this point if I am going to try and leave it in the primary fermenter ON the crush grape pack (loose in bucket) for the next few days (I have weekend off) until I rack it would it be advisable to decrease how often I stir it since there is much less CO2 protecting it?
Also what would the harm be just racking it this weekend (2 days from now) to protect it better and letting it finish primary in the carboy (how much more can I get out of the grape skins in the next few days)?
Finally to pretend like I know what I am doing I have read that to truely tell if your wine is DRY DRY you should use a CliniTest strips(blood/urine glucose test from pharmacy or similar) since the hydrometers, due to temp and decimal points, are not as accurate at detecting very low residual sugar...just thought I would contribute that to the above old thread.....


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