# Excessive foam



## ldmack3 (Dec 30, 2012)

I left for 12 hours today and here is what I came back to on day 3.
This is 22 liters of French Syrah/Carignan with Pasteur Red in a 7.9 gal bucket. Brew belt attached currently reading 78F
Used GoFerm and Fermaid as per the manuf directions.

I just cleaned up and sanatized lid and everything around it. My room stays at 63F so too cold for fruit flies I guess

My last batch with this yeast foamed excessively but not to this extent. Sometimes I am gone for 2-3 days so I need to prevent this in the future.

Help!!


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## cpfan (Dec 30, 2012)

ldmack3 said:


> Sometimes I am gone for 2-3 days so I need to prevent this in the future.
> 
> Help!!


Get a bigger primary. I use a 46 litre primary for 23 litre batches.

Steve


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 30, 2012)

I agree ^^ 
other option is to put it in a garbage bag for easy clean-up


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## ldmack3 (Dec 30, 2012)

I like the idea for the 10 gal fermenter although this is a first for me. I don't mind the cleaning. I'm more worried about somethign happening to the batch.

Thanks all.


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## Runningwolf (Dec 30, 2012)

Either a bigger fermenter or use antifoam.


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## ColdClimateWines (Dec 30, 2012)

Options
1 do not go away for 2-3 deals
2. Put less overall volume or get a bigger fermenter. Good rule of thumb is 2/3 s
3. Why use a heat belt? At a 68 degree cellar
4. Try a different yeast. Use one that does not cause foaming and does not add to sulfur build up
5. Put a pan under like the make for hot water heaters. 

Personally, I vote for # 2 &4
Tom


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## ldmack3 (Dec 31, 2012)

Dan:
I've thought about anti-foam but have no experience with it. Any drawbacks? 

Tom:
Darn work thing! Always gets in the way of having fun.
Never had an issue putting 6gal in 7.9 gal fermenter but maybe time to consider bigger fermenter. With me of course that leads to bigger batchers=more wine!
Room temp is 63. Rehydrating at 90-100 then coolng back down is an issue. Also with reds I like to ferment much warmer as I understand you get better color extraction. I've honestly never done 2 of the same batches with only a fermentation temp difference so can't testify on that. But that's whey I rely on the expereinced people here!
Yeast was recommended by the supplier as better for the French juice. No experience here either. This is only the 2nd time I've used Pasteur Red. The first time I did not use GoFer & Fermaid. I'm sure that is a partial cause but was hopeing to bet a better fermentation.
I like the pan idea but I'm really more concerned about bacteria or other negative effects on the batch. Like does losing foam change the quality of the finished product? 

I vote for # 2 also.

Thanks for all the input.


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## Rocky (Dec 31, 2012)

Idmack, This is really interesting and I have some questions.

Was this a kit? If so, could you please ID the manufacturer and series? You say the instructions had you add both _GoFerm_ and _Fermaid_. I have never seen instructions that say to add either one as a matter of course. There may have been some that suggested one or the other if fermentation did not start on its own. 

Was there a grape pack or grape skins? Raisins?

What was your initial SG?

What is the device on the lid of your fermenter that appears to be plugged into the vent?

Just my opinion, but I think using two fermentation enhancers and a brew belt that got the juice up to 78 degrees F is like wearing two belts and a pair of suspenders.


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## ldmack3 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rocky:
Was this a kit?
Yes, sort of. It is Kamil Juice that has been treated like a kit (pasturized) but not like the other commercially available with everything and instructions.
If so, could you please ID the manufacturer and series? 
http://www.kamiljuices.com/products.html Syrah
You say the instructions had you add both _GoFerm_ and _Fermaid_. 
There are no instructions. One is used in rehydration the other in the must. GoFerm supposedly helps with alcohol toxicity if added before. Fermaid is juct nutrient. This yeast is supposedly a fast started and the previous batch was extremely slow to start and to ferment. So I tried this to help.

I have never seen instructions that say to add either one as a matter of course. There may have been some that suggested one or the other if fermentation did not start on its own.

Was there a grape pack or grape skins? Raisins?
Neither

What was your initial SG?
1.093 - This was my reading.
Therse are per the container
Ph 3.37
TA 6.1

What is the device on the lid of your fermenter that appears to be plugged into the vent?
Sterilized big daddy dial thermometer. Alows me to monitor the temp as my wine room is relatively new so I'm still learining how the 63F effects the must. Lid in not snapped down so as to allow oxygen during primary ferm.

Just my opinion, but I think using two fermentation enhancers and a brew belt that got the juice up to 78 degrees F is like wearing two belts and a pair of suspenders.
Juice is stored at 63 so initially add the belt to warm it up. Then keep it (usually) 74-76F. This one was warmer that normal. 78f

Any of this make sense to you?
Your thoughts?


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## Rocky (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi Les, I would like to try a couple of those Kamil juice containers. Looks like it could be something very good, particularly for white wines. I think if I made the reds, I would add a grape pack or raisins to help with the body. Where did you buy the juice? I am interested in trying it.

From what you have written here, it is my belief that you had a "turbo charged" fermentation going with an enhnaced yeast, a fermentation enhancer and the heat. With a starting SG of 1.093 (About Brix 22.2) you should have been able to get a good fermentation going by just hydrating the yeast (or not) and getting the temperature of the juice up to 70-75 degrees F. Do you plan to make more? If so, you might want to try leaving out the Fermaid and GoFerm unless you see a problem in getting the fermentation going.


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## ldmack3 (Dec 31, 2012)

I think you are right. I probably should have done the nutrients without leaving the brew belt on. Double turbo charged.
Do you see any degredation of product quality with the loss of the foam?

Talk to Rich at Brew and Wine Hobby
http://www.brewandwinehobby.com/index.php/wine-making-supplies/kamil-juices-wine-grape-juice.html

Their website is not necessairly up to date.


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## ldmack3 (Dec 31, 2012)

Rocky:

BTW the containers are HORRIBLE! They suxx bad.

Once the top is off you will notice all kinds of crud around the threads including dead fruit flies. Juice is sealed but they did not clean off the top. I tried but it is caught under the lip. Use caution. 
The top of the opening is exactly level with rest of the container. So if you pick up the container by the handle it sucks in air and when you set it down it pushes out juice. 
There is no vent so if you try to pour it out, it glugs and splashes everywhere. Punching some holes (after picking up but never setting down again) helps a little but not much.
It is so much trouble I lift the handle at the same time I insert a wine thief to get the level down to where I can let go of the handle and put a siphone hose into it.

open for suggestions here.


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## ColdClimateWines (Dec 31, 2012)

I agree with Rocky or Mrs Rocky ....

You have belt, suspenders and maybe more. My opinion is less is more. Yeast nuitrient is generally used if you have high YAN requirement or another way to say it low nitrogen. In my experience most CA juice are ok with their nitrogen. Juice from other parts of the world, with the exception of Australia may be different.

Fruit flies (amino acids or protein snacks for yeast) can be used but most winemakers try to keep them out. Personally I like to charge my filtered water with local natural honey prior to rehydrating the yeast. Then after about 1/2 hour and a nice bloom, spoon in some of the must to allow yeast to acclimate to Ph and temp.

As I make wine in cold climates, I work with yeasts that will work at moderate temps so 63 is not an issue. If you want a fast ferment on reds u can supplement with a belt, but you really might want to try a low foaming type. And as I suggested earlier 2/3 vol is a good rule of thumb for your primary. 

I would not over worry about bacteria since fermentation will kill most if not all. It is after you might worry, but remember in wine, cider, mead making - Cleanlyness is king. Oh and then there is sanitation:=)


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## ldmack3 (Dec 31, 2012)

If I use this yeast again I'll go with a 10 gal just to be safe.

This juice is from France but don't know if that matters. I have 2 from France the rest from Italy but always use recommended when dealing with something new.

Thanks


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