# First Time with Grapes



## s2000 (Oct 14, 2011)

Hi Folks, trying to restart the hobby after my dad passed on over a year ago.

Whew boy I didn't realize how much prep and cleaning goes into this. 

Well this Wednesday and Thursday I purchased 18 lugs of Cab Sauv, 5 Merlot, 3 Malbec for this years wine. Crushed all the grapes on Thursday and added yeast. 13 packets of Lalvin RC 212 according to the wine folks where I got the grapes. 

I went there today to run my tests. I didn't do it yesterday because I was too damn tired.

Temp of Must: 60f
BRIX: 24
PH 3.9
ACID. First used TA kit and got a .5 something after calc. Then I used the PH Meter test and found it to be 5.25. 

Question: Should I worry about the PH being a tad high and PH being a little low? 

I also bought a 5 gal pail of chianti and my measurements were right on the money after fermenting a day and a half. Temp 60f, BRIX 20, TA Acid kit .65 and PH: 3.48.

Thanks for the help.


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## ibglowin (Oct 14, 2011)

I would adjust with some tartaric acid. That will bring your pH down and the TA up. You want to go towards 3.5-3.6 before fermentation as fermentation will push the pH up. If you plan on doing MLF then that will slide pH up further and bring down the TA a bit as well.

You should add the acid ASAP but make sure you do your calculations twice, then add 1/2 and test again. You do NOT want to overshoot this as you get once chance and one chance only.


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## s2000 (Oct 14, 2011)

Thing is its already been a day since I added the yeast. So now it may not be feasible to add Tartaric Acid. BTW, where do I get this stuff? Local grocery in the baking section?

One thing that I am more concerned with is the temp of the must at 60f. Should it not be 70f to kick start the fermentation or should it be better to have more time with the must to ferment at 60f. I have a wood stove in the basement that I can start up if need be.


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## ibglowin (Oct 14, 2011)

You can always adjust with tartaric, its just the sooner the better so it gets integrated more with the wine. Best place to pick some up is at your local home brew store. Do not get acid blend or malic, it needs to be pure tartaric acid. 60 is way to cold for a start, use a heating pad or something to get the temps up to 70-74 degrees. After a day or so you won't need it for a while until fermentation slows way down and it cools back down. Do you have yeast energizer ect. to feed along the way?


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## s2000 (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok on my way to get some Tartaric and going to light up the wood stove tonight.

I got about 65 gallons of juice which calls for about 8oz of Tartaric to get it from the .5 to the .6. Tonight I will only add 4oz and measure again in the am. Of course before I add anything I will retest. I have a Hanna PH meter so its pretty easy to test.


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## winemaker_3352 (Oct 14, 2011)

I would adjust the TA after fermentation is complete.


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## s2000 (Oct 15, 2011)

Ok only put about half the Tartaric needed and brought it down from ph 3.9 to 3.6. Its also really cooking at this point when I punched it down tonight. Down to 20 BRIX. Temp of must was about 66.


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## ibglowin (Oct 16, 2011)

And that folks is why you only add half of what you think you need to begin with!



s2000 said:


> Ok only put about half the Tartaric needed and brought it down from ph 3.9 to 3.6. Its also really cooking at this point when I punched it down tonight. Down to 20 BRIX. Temp of must was about 66.


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## s2000 (Oct 16, 2011)

WOW down to BRIX of 14 cooking real nice at 72 degrees and PH now down to 3.48. So any day now. 

Got another question. When I transfer to the carboys how much should I leave on top? 1 to 1-1/2 inch right? Use bung / airlock and put something like vodka or grain for the airlock liquid.


Cooking really nice!


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## ibglowin (Oct 16, 2011)

2.0-3.0 inches. I use sulfite solution.


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## winemaker_3352 (Oct 16, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> 2.0-3.0 inches. I use sulfite solution.



2-3" is about what i do - but i use vodka in my airlocks.


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## s2000 (Oct 17, 2011)

Thanks folks for the responses so far. I hope to be pressing in 2 days or so it seems as going by the BRIX measures. I am picking up a press tomorrow from a family friend. I envision a nice mess will entail.

So today just purchased some more goodies. 5 - 54liter demi-johns for MLB. Yikes this hobby is putting a dent in my wallet 






So another dilemma? To Malolactic Bacteria naturally or via Dry Malolactic Bacteria packets??? My dad used to do it naturally, I am also inclined to do so as well. What procedures besides racking after a day or so to remove gross lees should I perform?


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## ibglowin (Oct 17, 2011)

Nice demi-johns!

I would pick up some MLB. You can get enough to do 60 gallons for ~$20.


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## s2000 (Oct 17, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> Nice demi-johns!
> 
> I would pick up some MLB. You can get enough to do 60 gallons for ~$20.



$20? Does it matter what brand? This one is expensive ($13) if I was going to stay with the LALVIN ones since I did RC-212. And this is only for 6gals.

http://www.finevinewines.com/XPListDet1.asp?MM_PartNumber=24912


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## ibglowin (Oct 17, 2011)

It kinda of does. You have to pick the MLB that fits into your pH, ABV and SO2 levels. I have been using this one. $21 and it will inoculate up to 66 gallons.


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## robie (Oct 17, 2011)

s2000 said:


> I envision a nice mess will entail.




Mess? I had grape pieces on my light switch, the walls, the floor (of course), and about everything I touched. 

Like Mike wrote, check that your ABV, SO2 levels, PH and temperature all agree with the MLB you choose.
If every one of these is pretty typical, that MLB will work OK. Just make sure.


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## s2000 (Oct 17, 2011)

How do I measure ABV and SO2 levels? Actually what ABV? Alcohol Level?


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## robie (Oct 17, 2011)

s2000 said:


> How do I measure ABV and SO2 levels? Actually what ABV? Alcohol Level?



There are various test kits for SO2, some hard to read for red wines, some very expensive. This is a very nice test kit for home winemakers:
http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/18643/

Most LHBS sell the simpler, less expensive, harder to read kit.

ABV is Alcohol By Volume. Subtract final SG from the starting SG and multiply the results by 131. EX: (1.085 - .997) * 131 = 11.528% ABV

Hope that helps.


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## s2000 (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah Boy!!! Tonight got a BRIX of 5%, PH 3.48, And according to vinometer a alcohol content of 13%. Must still cooking at 80f. Plan on pressing probably first thing in the am. I wait till it gets right down to zero BRIX right? Using Hydrometer btw.


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## ibglowin (Oct 18, 2011)

You want to press around ~1.000 or about 8 days on the skins approx. Sounds like things are progressing nicely!


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## s2000 (Oct 18, 2011)

Whooowee down to 3% BRIX this am. Temp falling from 80 to 75 now. So anytime now.  Just got my press last night from a friend and going to get it nice and clean. Maybe pressing this afternoon or tomorrow first thing. Today is Day 6 not sure if its going to run from 3 to 0 as fast as the prior days or its going to slow down on the last hurdle.


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## grapeman (Oct 18, 2011)

If you are using a refractometer to get tthe brix, the reading gets skewed as it increases in alcohol so don't go on that alone to press. Once the cap sinks to the bottom I usually press and if tested at that point it is pretty dry. You can then also easily test it with a hydrometer.


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## s2000 (Oct 18, 2011)

Checked at noon and at 2 BRIX. Checked at 4pm and 1 BRIX. Looks like I maybe pressing my wine in the wee hours of the night. Going to test it again at 8pm. I have been using a Hydrometer (Triplescale) to test BRIX.


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## s2000 (Oct 18, 2011)

Don't I press at 0 asap even though cap has not sunk? Maybe I should wait till the morning? Any harm in that?


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## ibglowin (Oct 18, 2011)

Its wine, it can't tell time. Do a check tomorrow morning and press when you have the time tomorrow if its ready.


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## s2000 (Oct 18, 2011)

Yeah I am waiting till tomorrow. Long day today and I still hear it working faintly. Its basically at zero now but cap is still on top. We'll see in the morning. Its only been 6 days since initial crush on Wednesday afternoon.


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## ibglowin (Oct 19, 2011)

The longer on the skins the better. Keep punching that cap down so it gets some good contact time in the ethanol extraction system you have made. I personally would let it go 7 days even if its below 1.000. There is plenty of CO2 to protect the wine now. Once you press it will be driven off.


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## s2000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Well all pressed today to fill 5 - 15gal demi-johns. A little messy but that was expected. Tried to balance out the juice between all five by dividing up the pressed juice vs free juice. Letting it relax overnight then racking to remove gross lees and begin the MLF. 

Gearing up the equipment






Ah nice juice





Getting a little messy





Finished product!





*Anything in particular to look for in getting MLF done? Rack Gross lees, add maloactic bacteria to the wine then wait 2 weeks before stirring then testing with paper Chromatography test?*


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## ibglowin (Oct 19, 2011)

Check to make sure your pH, ABV, SO2 and temps are within range. Do another TA beforehand as well to check for differences before/after.

Looks like a nice setup for sure!


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## s2000 (Oct 19, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> Looks like a nice setup for sure!



Thanks Amigo will check all that before adding bacteria. Thanks for the compliments, just making sure the old man up there is proud that I am carrying on the tradition.


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## s2000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Just remembered since I started with BRIX of 24 or sg 1.1009 and fg 1.0000. I should have ABV of .1009 - .0000 = .1009 * 131 = 13.21. I think when I used the vinometer it showed between 13 and 14 % alcohol this morning and the PH was 3.36. Temp was down to 70. The SO2 I don't have a clue but I haven't added sulfite and really don't plan to since i am not planning on aging more than a year.


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## joea132 (Oct 20, 2011)

s2000 said:


> Just remembered since I started with BRIX of 24 or sg 1.1009 and fg 1.0000. I should have ABV of .1009 - .0000 = .1009 * 131 = 13.21. I think when I used the vinometer it showed between 13 and 14 % alcohol this morning and the PH was 3.36. Temp was down to 70. The SO2 I don't have a clue but I haven't added sulfite and really don't plan to since i am not planning on aging more than a year.



Vin-O-Meters are notoriously unreliable. Go by SG/Brix


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## ibglowin (Oct 20, 2011)

He would definitely be proud.


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## grapeman (Oct 20, 2011)

Give them a quick stir every couple days- don't wait two weeks. Not critical, but it speeds it up as the mlb uses some oxygen so by stirring it up, you mix the bacteria with the left over lees for food and also introduce the little oxygen needed by them to speed up it's work.


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## s2000 (Oct 20, 2011)

Great thanks for the info. I went with what my local wine shop had. 






He recommended Lallemand's ENOFERM ALPHA which invokes "Security and mouthfeel, adapted to high alcohol wines" whatever that means  Basically followed directions to hydrate and divided it up amoungst the 5 carboys after of course racking the gross lees. Boy those gross lees were indeed gross. 

Well I am off to a few days of hunting but when I get back on Sunday I will for sure mix up the wine. 

Pick of today's racking


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## ibglowin (Oct 20, 2011)

Ducks in a row!


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## rhoffart (Oct 20, 2011)

I am super impressed with your process. "First Time" ... you look like a pro.


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## joea132 (Oct 20, 2011)

Very nice setup and great first time! I have been hunting every day I have off this last week up in Tolland county. Took my wine off the gross lees today after an 8 hour day in the woods!


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## ibglowin (Oct 21, 2011)

You might want to rethink that. This is not a kit that will be drinkable in 9 months. This was made from fresh grapes. It will take a full 12 months just to start to even taste like wine, another 6 months to start really maturing (bottle time) and then 6 more before its really ready to drink. There is a reason most wineries release their reds 2 years from when the yeast was pitched. 



s2000 said:


> The SO2 I don't have a clue but I haven't added sulfite and really don't plan to since i am not planning on aging more than a year.


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## robie (Oct 21, 2011)

I agree with Mike. This won't be a quick drinker. Since you haven't added any sulfites to date, by the time it gets out of mlf, after all the riggers of stirring and racking, it will be due a dose of Kmeta. I just wouldn't risk not adjusting for sulfites, you have put lots of time and money into this wine.

I assume you are still in secondary and soon to move on to mlf. If that's the case, I noticed three of your carboys have quite a bit of head space, which is perfectly fine during secondary. Once mlf begins and thereafter, you will need to have each carboy topped off. 

I know it is more bucks, but you might consider getting two 6 gallon carboys. That way during and after mlf you can top off two of those larger carboys, then fill two - 6 gallon carboys with the remainder leaving one large carboy empty. This way you won't have so much head space. Four larger carboys and two 6 gallon carboys (which are closer to 6.5 gallons each) should be just about right for the amount of wine you have.


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## robie (Oct 21, 2011)

Sorry. I just re-read your last post and now see you already added the mlb. Three of those carboys really need topped off some way or another.


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## s2000 (Oct 24, 2011)

Oh sorry that picture is from removing the gross lees on the first 3. I have topped off to three fingers space after adding bacteria for MLF. I stirred last night which marked 3 days in the demijohns. I plan on possibly going up there tomorrow and checking on progress and doing another stir.

I still don't have a Chromatography tester yet but plan on getting one for week 2. What else should I inspect for MLF? Is it supposed to be bubbling? Or what else should I monitor for signs of MLF? I figure it has to stay in the carboys for 4 to 6 weeks then off to the barrel.


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## s2000 (Oct 28, 2011)

Well its been a week now and stirred it up yesterday. Demijohns 1-5 had stable juice temp of 60 and gravity of 1.000. The ph varied from 3.35 to 3.5 but I guess still within range of 3.3 to 3.6. Its all going to get blended into a 60 gallon french medium toast barrel anyways. 

When I was stirring I could see the stuff in the liquid and bubble rising as well. Hope its all working its magic. I guess time will tell.

Plan on doing a Chromatography Test in another week.


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## joea132 (Oct 28, 2011)

I've never done an MLF chromatography test. I usually just taste for green apple to see. Let me know how the test goes though, it might be nice for another tool in the tool box.


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## s2000 (Oct 28, 2011)

I also found this test for Malic Acid - 
http://valleyvintner.com/Merchant2/...OD&Product_Code=TE-10-3830&Category_Code=TKit

Looks a heck of a lot easier than the chromo test.


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## ibglowin (Oct 28, 2011)

But if its as accurate as the Accuvin SO2 test kit.......


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## s2000 (Nov 1, 2011)

Well another stirring today with PH readings of 3.35-3.54 and gravity of .9998 on 3 and .1.0000 on 2. Temps were a bit on the chilly side at 58 but I can't do anything about it since no power here in our neck of the woods. And I can't keep running the wood stove in the basement 24x7. This is my parents house so no one to mind the stove.


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