# Hard Apple Cider



## NorthernWinos (Nov 29, 2005)

Is there a place on this forum where I can learn about making hard apple cider???? Meads are with honey...right?? Know beer is brewing....so, where is some info on Hard Cider?? I probably just missed it someplace.....?*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## smurfe (Nov 30, 2005)

I am not sure but I think Masta makes Hard Cider. I never have but am interested in trying it. I did a search here and didn't find a whole lot about it. You might read through all the fruit wine posts. Make sure to click ALL posts at the top left to see older posts.


Idid a Google search and found quite a few recipes. Don't look hard at all. Looks like a regular wine recipe. Looks like the process is pretty well like any type scratch wine.


Smurfe




*Edited by: smurfe *


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## RAMROD (Dec 1, 2005)

Here try this one.  [url]http://www.winesathome.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30&amp;pag e=6[/url]


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## Big Port (Dec 1, 2005)

Here is a link for you to check out. It's fromthe local homebrew store here. http://www.sicilianosmkt.com/cidermaking.html 


And...there is what looks to be an awesome Pork loin recipe to go along with the cider!*Edited by: Big Port *


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 1, 2005)

Thanks RAMROD & BIG PORT....getting close to starting this batch of Hard Apple Cider. Liked the Site/recipe with the pork loin. Kind of been putting together a recipe and waiting for a corboy...all takes time. Going to use 6 gallons of store bought apple juice/cider [no preservatives] and some ale yeast,then at the end prime it like beer and bottle in beer bottles and champagne bottles. Seems on all the Sites we've looked at that it is a pretty simple process...seems almost too simple, so I want all the info possible. Thanks again for your input.
*BIG PORT...have you figured out how to upload the label???
Thanks!!!*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## masta (Dec 1, 2005)

smurfe said:


> I am not sure but I think Masta makes Hard Cider. I never have but am interested in trying it. I did a search here and didn't find a whole lot about it. You might read through all the fruit wine posts. Make sure to click ALL posts at the top left to see older posts.
> 
> 
> Idid a Google search and found quite a few recipes. Don't look hard at all. Looks like a regular wine recipe. Looks like the process is pretty well like any type scratch wine.
> ...




I did mention I made a hard cider which we had on Thanksgiving day. Mine was a simple basic recipe with apple cider, sugar, golden raisins. It was fairly high ABV of 16% and no carbonation and sweeten slightly with apple juice concentrate.


...yes I will post recipe!






apple wine/hard apple cider/cider is funny as it depends where you live as to what it is called.


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## AAASTINKIE (Dec 1, 2005)

Well, I had to go read this last night, now I have started my hard apple cider...lol here's my recipe:

5 1/2 gallons apple juice (fresh)

4 lbs. honey

1 1/2 lbs. brown sugar

no acid blend (TA was .60)

2 TBS. nutrient

1 TBS. energizer

Pectic enzyme 1/4 tsp. (liquid)

Tannin 1 tsp.

Campden 6 tabs

water 1 qt. to 6 gallons

heavy toast oak chips 1/2 oz.

cinnamon 1 8" stick

yeast tomorrow


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 1, 2005)

AAASTINKIE.....
What is your Starting Gravity???
What kind of yeast are you going to use???
What is your projected Finished Gravity???
What is your desired alcohol???
Are you planning on priming it to give it a little fizz???
or
Are you wanting a still wine type drink???
Gee, aren't I full of questions tonight????
This PM I took out my jugs of apple juice/cider and got them to room temp..it didn't mention any additives, but you never know. All it said was to refrigerate after opening....this was some cheap store brand stuff. 
The S.G. is 1050, so I ran into town and picked up some frozen apple juice concentrate, and will fortify it and try to get the S.G. near 1060-1070 with more apple juice, if I have to will add some sugar. I want kind of a Ale type drink.
Then I put 1/2 cup in each of 2 clear measuring cups. I added a few grains of Ale yeast to one and Lalvin Champagne yeast in the other. Just testing to see if there was any Sorbate or Sulfites in the juice. There appears to be some activity with the yeasts, so will attempt to mix up a batch tomorrow.
I am debating not using Campden Tablets.....? Don't want anything to disrupt the action of the Ale yeast...I want it to ferment to about 1004...so there is some residual yeast, at which time we plan on priming it with corn sugar, like beer, and then bottle it in beer and champagne bottles...
I am planning on adding Peptic Enzyme, Yeast nutrient, Yeast Energizer...just undecided about the Campden Tablets. If I do add them I will wait a day or two before pitching a started yeast.
******How does this sound to you pros out there???


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## AAASTINKIE (Dec 1, 2005)

Starting SG 1.083

Yeast White Labs liquid Champagne wine yeast WLP715

finish to dryness

I wanted low alcohol but my brew guy said bring it up

will prime and bottle in champagne bottles and beer bottles

I kinda made my own recipe from putting others together.


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## peterCooper (Dec 1, 2005)

So is the difference between cider and apple wine just if you make it fizzy or 
not?


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## peterCooper (Dec 1, 2005)

By the way, in England, cider is alcoholic, anything between 2% and 15-18%. 
No such thing as apple juice marketed as cider.


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## masta (Dec 1, 2005)

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Found this bit of history:


During the Colonial Era, hard apple cider was by far the most popular alcoholic beverage in America. There were many reasons for the immense popularity of apple cider at that time. 





First of all, apple cider is relatively easy to make. In addition to that, the early English colonists in America brought a great quantity of apple seed with them to plant in the New World resulting in an abundance of apple trees. By as early as 1629 there were already many apple orchards in Virginia and the Massachusetts Bay Colony. The reason for all this growing of apple trees was not to eat apples but to drink them in the form of hard cider. 


Apple cider had been popular with the people of Great Britain going back to the time of the Celts. By the time the English had settled in America, the art of cider brewing was very well known to them due to centuries of consumption of apple cider. 





Unlike many other alcoholic beverages, apple cider could be consumed at any time of the day. In fact, John Adams, second president of the United States, drank it regularly at breakfast to soothe his stomach. The fermentation of apple cider killed the bacteria in that drink which made it preferable to drinking well water in that era because water was often contaminated and therefore less healthy than apple cider. 





Apple cider continued in its popularity well into the 1800s due in part to the efforts of the legendary Johnny Appleseed who planted many apple trees in the Midwest. As a result, apple cider brewing spread into that area of the country. By mid century, beer was a distant second to apple cider in popularity. However, soon a series of events took place which was to diminish the consumption of apple cider and make beer the most popular alcoholic beverage in America. 





As the settlers moved further west, it became more difficult to grow apple trees in those arid regions. Later, as more people moved from the country to the city, there wasn’t adequate transportation to deliver apple cider from the farms to the urban areas. Meanwhile, German beer with its faster fermentation process, was introduced into America. The German immigrants also set up large sophisticated breweries for producing beer in great quantities while apple cider production remained limited to the small farms. 





What ultimately led to the demise in the popularity of apple cider consumption was the Temperance movement. Because the Temperance movement was religiously based, many of the church going farmers gave up their drinking of apple cider. Many of them even went so far as to chop down the apple trees on their farms. 





When Prohibition finally became the law, this marked the death knell for apple cider. Although beer staged a quick comeback following the repeal of Prohibition in 1933, apple cider brewing was effectively destroyed and remained only on a very few family farms for many years to come. 





With the growing popularity of microbreweries in the 1990s, alcoholic apple cider is once again enjoying a resurgence in popularity. Although apple cider is nowhere close to the popularity it enjoyed in the Colonial Era, the consumption of apple cider did double in just one year from 1995 to 1996 with renewed public interest in this brewing process considered to be so much a part of Americana. </TD></TR></T></TABLE>


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 1, 2005)

I am still confused about apple wine/apple cider. For us, we have been making Sparkling Apple Wine [Champagne Method], usually a lower alcohol clear stable wine, [do not stabilize] and add 1 3/4 cups sugar and another package of Champagne yeast at bottling [wonder how much more alcohol you gain at this point...?] Then we do the shaking and riddling thing, dégorge the lees, recap and wait again, it is an awesome drink.
This time, just for grins, we wanted to do a lower alcohol drink like apple beer, using kind of a beer method. We kind of think it is a waste of apple juice/time as we like the other so much, but see so many posts elsewhere about this Hard Apple Cider thingy, so....if the Ale yeast works on the juice sample tonight will give it a whirl and see what comes out...hopefully an Apple Beer type drink...will keep up posts and follow others as well....
Think the Cider/Juice thing will never be resolved....[Cider sounds more orgainic at the stores]and the Sparkling Apple Wine/Hard Apple Cider thing is also still a question of method....so who can say...?
*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 8, 2005)

Since no one was going to hold my hand and walk me through the Hard Cider making process...I just tabulated my readings and dove in.
Dec 1st....took 1/2 cup of store brand apple juice [they called it Cider] and brought it to room temp.Put a few grains of Munton's Ale yeast in it to check for unmentioned preservatives. All it said on the label was to refrigerate after opening, didn't mention any sorbates or acids. The yeast took off.
Dec 2nd....Mixed:
6 gallons juice[O.G.1050]
4 cans frozen apple juice concentrate [S.G. 1058]
4 cups sugar [S.G. 1065] perfect for the apple/beer type drink we want]
2 tsp acid blend
6 crushed Campden tablets [seems to be some controversy about whether to add them of not...I did.]

Let it sit for 30 hours, stirring occasionally.

Dec 3rd. 
Added:
3 tsp. Peptic Enzyme
6 tsp. Yeast Nutrient
Divided into 2 buckets as I didn't know how frothy this was going to get.

Added: 
2 packages [1 to each bucket] Re hydrated Munton's Ale Yeast.

Fermenting took off.





Day 2 fermenting






By Dec 6th the S.G. was 1000, lower than expected, thought it would finish at S.G. 1004 ......so it got racked to a carboy.






Today, Dec 8th...looks like it is beginning to settle. The Raspberry/Apple was racked the same day, it sure settled alot more.






So....anyone with any experience in Hard Cider making, please let me know if this is going to work out??? It does not taste like 'Nectar of the Gods' at this point.


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## masta (Dec 8, 2005)

Looks good to me...is the plan to prime and bottle for a carbonated cider?


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## MedPretzel (Dec 8, 2005)

First I have to say, I _love_ the tiles. I want them in my kitchen someday.






I've made apple wine, not hard cider. But this I have learned from what I made:
<UL>
<LI>You can be pretty harsh to your apple stuff, because it _almost_ always turns out good. Leave it alone and it turns out the best. 
<LI>I added spices to mine once. I didn't like it. Maybe cinnamon would be good, but don't add too much other stuff. 
<LI>It takes at least 5-6 months to become pretty good. A year for it to be FANTASTIC. 
<LI>Sweeten it up a bit at the end. It makes the flavor so much more pronounced.</LI>[/list]


Again, this was for apple wine, not cider. I read somewhere the only difference is really in the alcohol content. A wine is about 8-10%, cider is higher than 10... But don't quote me on this, it's just a blurb I remember reading somewhere. In europe, _Cidre_, is just plain alcoholic apple juice (either clear or not (which is known as apple cider in the States)). In Germany, and I am sure there are regional/international differences, but Ebbelwoi (apple wine in dialect) is made like wine. Here's a german website I found: http://www.frank-draut.de/ebbelwoi.htm


Apple wine has become the "national drink" of the Rhein-Main area (around Frankfurt, Germany) for 250 years. It was already known as "apple drink" in germanic areas. Charles the Great made the drink in his palace, after the romans and the greeks perfected it (typical german trait). In the course of time, everyone started to make it at home. Only in this century, it has lost it's description of "Drink of the Poor People." Only in recent years, there are specialties such as pure "species" apple wine and champagne (sparkling wine). You can drink it warm or cold. As always, apple wine is an exciting, low-alcohol drink which influences the circulatory system and CNS through it's organic fruit acids, minerals, aroma and it'sat least 5% alcohol.








*Edited by: MedPretzel *


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 8, 2005)

Thanks guys....
Martina....Lots of info there, will have to digest all of that. We make alot of Sparkling Apple Wine [Champagne Method] Specialty of this House. It is higher in alcohol than this will be.We make a regular apple wine, then add 1 3/4 cups sugar and another package of Champagne yeast......bottle in sparkling wine bottles...referments in the root cellar 2 months.....shake once a week...turn up-side-down and riddle [lift-twist-bump...daily for 2 weeks] Rest for 2 more weeks.....then freeze for 1 hour 15 min till the neck has ice crystals, then dégorge the plug of lees, top off with same wine...recap and rest for 2 more months...it forms more tiny bubbles....it is too good...
Masta....we are going to prime with 3/4 cups of corn sugar and bottle in beer bottles and let it sit till fizzy....hope there is enough yeasties left in there to make the corn sugar ferment......Hope that it will be a nice breakfast drink



Just kidding, hope it to be a refreshing drink for out on the lake....but think it won't be ready for ice fishing season this year, but should be ready for on the fishing boat.


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## masta (Dec 8, 2005)

Northern Winos said:


> Thanks guys....
> Masta....we are going to prime with 3/4 cups of corn sugar and bottle in beer bottles and let it sit till fizzy....hope there is enough yeasties left in there to make the corn sugar ferment......Hope that it will be a nice breakfast drink
> 
> 
> ...




That was the same thing I was thinking...guess it depends how long it takes to clear. You could always add some more yeast when you prime with sugar at bottling time to be sure.


This post might prime me to make some cider this way also if I can find the time and still get some sweet cider from the local mill. It would be a great treat next summer!


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 8, 2005)

MedPretzel said:


> Here's a german website I found:  http://www.frank-draut.de/ebbelwoi.htm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 16, 2005)

Here is the Hard Cider 10 days in the carboy...looks like it settled pretty good...time to rack.






This is 12 hours after racking.






Looks like it's behaving pretty much like apple wine....except that the Ale yeast has rendered a F.G. at 1000..It has for sure quit fermenting. 
We plan on priming with corn sugar like beer, and bottle in beer bottles. Hoping that there is enough yeasties in there to carbonate it a tad. Don't want to add more yeast at the priming because we would make more lees.
It is rather tasty and has potential to be the light breakfast beverage we were looking for



[still kidding] It is suppose to make a nice fishing beverage...winter or summer...if it will last that long.
Will post at another time on the progress....later&gt;&gt;


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## peterCooper (Dec 16, 2005)

On another post I talked about the cranberry apple I have going and it looks 
like the potential alcohol is around 13.5% which sounds a lot compared to 
what you guys are doing. 

Scrumpy cider in the UK is very high alcohol 12%+ but still drunk like beer, 
uncarbonated and not clear. So I guess in the end, you make what you want 
and then you drink it




*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 20, 2006)

UPDATE:
Went ahead and bottled the Hard Apple Cider almost 2 weeks ago..it had cleared fairly nicely....I didn't want to wait it out too long as I wanted the residual Yeast to be able to ferment the priming corn sugar.Had thought of using SUPER KLEER K-C to really make it brilliantly clear, but thought it might strip the yeast.....any thoughts on that???
So we racked it into a priming bucket and added 3/4 cup of corn sugar, stirred and bottled in beer bottles.Opened one last night just to try it and..."Yum-O"...that's going to be another hit around here...it was already beginning to carbonate....will be great by summer, if we can leave it alone that long. It sure was a pleasant drink, like apple flavored beer...think the Ale Yeast gave it a hint a of beer taste....am sure it will change with time.

BTW...
I read an article lately, it said that APPLE WINE is made from apple juice with added sugar to bring the S.G. and alcohol to a higher level.
It said that HARD APPLE CIDER is fermented with only the apple juice sugars....guess I kind of go with that idea....but we all have our own ideas about that issue...


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## masta (Feb 21, 2006)

I have yet to make a carbonated apple cider but it is on the to do list. From what I have read, finings agent should not be used to clarify if you plan to prime and carbonate in the bottle.


Letting your cider rest in the bottle a few months will certainly help develop the flavor and I am sure it will continue to clear quite nicely. 


Then it is all in the pour when you are ready to serve!!!!


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 21, 2006)

masta said:


> I have yet to make a carbonated apple cider but it is on the to do list. From what I have read, finings agent should not be used to clarify if you plan to prime and carbonate in the bottle.
> 
> 
> Letting your cider rest in the bottle a few months will certainly help develop the flavor and I am sure it will continue to clear quite nicely.
> ...



Masta....what yeast are you thinking of using??? 

I used Munton's Ale Yeast and now notice that Red Star Cotes Des Blanc is recommended for apple cider...think I will try that next time, tho I am open to suggestions....





Going to be watching for sales on gallons of apple juice and this time I am going to have enough frozen apple concentrate to boost the S.G. without adding any sugar....



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## masta (Feb 21, 2006)

I really didn't give too much thought to the yeast as of yet but it might be interesting to make two or three small batches side by side with different yeasts to compare the results.


....Sounds like a good plan for the gallon jugs I recently acquired!


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## Curt (Feb 21, 2006)

Northern,


Ifyou ever get to Bemidji find Brigit's Cross downtown. It's an Irish pub right across the street from Kelsey's As You Like It jewelry shop. They have a hard cider on tap called Strong Bow. I didn't think I was going to like it but was pleasantly surprised when I took a sip. Clean, crisp andfresh.


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## peterCooper (Feb 23, 2006)

Strongbow is not very high in alcohol though, I think not more than 4-5%. 
There is a sweet and a dry version.

I am still waiting for my canberry apple to clear. I fined it twice so I daren't 
do any more than that. It's bee two months clearing and still no 
improvement. I did try to filter but it clogs after about a liter or two.


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 23, 2006)

Hummm.....doesn't sound good...what did you use to fine it??? How clear is it now...????
Hope it work's out...always wonder about others problems...and wonder if they are just more fussy than I...? How clear is clear enough???
I have been impressed with Martina's filtering projects...she takes what I would consider clear wine and turns it brilliant...pretty impressive.
Would cold stabilization help????


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## PolishWineP (Feb 23, 2006)

Hmmm... Downtown Bemidji... Briget's Cross... Do they serve food? That sounds like a nice day trip...


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## peterCooper (Feb 24, 2006)

No chance of cold stabilization in Huntsville Texas... unless I put it in my 
freezer, then I could stabilize AND turn it into apple jack in one easy step


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## Funky Fish (Feb 24, 2006)

Curt said:


> Northern,
> 
> 
> Ifyou ever get to Bemidji find Brigit's Cross downtown. It's an Irish pub right across the street from Kelsey's As You Like It jewelry shop. They have a hard cider on tap called Strong Bow. I didn't think I was going to like it but was pleasantly surprised when I took a sip. Clean, crisp andfresh.




Mmmm...Strong Bow. I first had Strong Bow on tap on my honeymoon. We were sitting in a small crowded Irish pub (in Ireland



) - so it always brings back good memories!


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## earl (Feb 25, 2006)

When making a Cider do you add K-meta at all during the process?? I would think that it would inhibit the fermentation in the bottle if you were trying to make it "sparkle."


If I were to rack off the lees would I need to add it??


earl


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## Curt (Feb 25, 2006)

Polish,


They do serve food and good food at that. There is usually a dialy special on the menu too. The kicker is Guiness on tap.


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 25, 2006)

earl said:


> When making a Cider do you add K-meta at all during the process??  I would think that it would inhibit the fermentation in the bottle if you were trying to make it "sparkle."
> 
> 
> If I were to rack off the lees would I need to add it??
> ...


 
I had Campden tabs in the primary, then none after that. At bottling there was no Sulfites added, nor any sorbates....the bottles were rinsed in One Step and rinsed in water then the wine/cider was primed with corn sugar as you would do with beer....this was my first batch....so, kind of was unsure myself.
Opened the sacrificial 'one bottle per Saturday night'..it is getting more carbonated...should be great in a few months....my honey has beer he made almost a year ago and it gets a nice head now...hope the cider might get that way with time.....got to make another batch so can stay on top of trying one every now and then....


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 22, 2006)

The Hard Apple Cider is getting more 'fizzy' every week....we are trying to ration it out and make it last till summer.....




We better start looking for sales on more gallons of apple juice/cider at the grocery stores and make up another 6 gallon/60 beer bottles of it....for sure it's a winner at this house.....


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## earl (Mar 22, 2006)

Northern


I made a cider with apple juice and brown sugar. I primed it with 1/3 cup sugar and apple concentrate. I put it in the bottle on a Saturday and on Wednesday had to chill it because it developed soooooooooo much carbonation. I bottled it in the easy cap bottles. When I open one up it sounds like a champagne cork popping. I develops a fantastic head when pouring and tastes great. I currently have a kit going but when it is out of the Primary I am going to make an apple/raspberry cider.


Cider is so easy and quick it has been a lot of fun. 


earl


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## maize (Mar 27, 2006)

Earl:


Could you give me a complete run down of the recipe and process you used for cider? Did you use a clarifier? When you primed - did you add more yeast? I am interested in trying a 6 gallon batch next month and want to nail down the details and order anything I need beyond the juice from George soon.


Thanks,


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## earl (Mar 27, 2006)

Maize


I will give you a run down and a few things I would do differently.


3 Gallons Store bought CHEAP apple juice


Yeast nurtient per directions on the bottle, I think 3 teaspoons


2 lbs brown sugar, melted into about 2 cups of apple juice


1 packet champagne yeast


Mixed yeast nutrient, apple juice and brown sugar solution into a 7.5 gallon primary.Mixed really well thenchecked SG, it was around 1.070 at 74 degrees. 


I sprinkled the champagne yeast on top then lightly covered it with the lid of the primary. Within about 24 hours it had taken off like crazy. Had about 3 to 4 inches of foam on top.


After about 5 days checked sg and it was at about 1.010 so I racked into a 5 gallon carboy. That is all I had and I was a little concerned about oxidation. I put it in my basement, which is about 60 degrees on a good day for the next 7 days. I then racked it off the lees into my primary which I use for bottling. I then mixed 1/3 cup of corn sugar with 1 can of apple juice concentrate and melted it on the stove. When it was room temp I just poured it into the primary and with a spoon mixed it up with the cider. I then bottled it in the easy cap bottles. I opened a bottle after about 5 days and it was VERY carbonated so I put the bottles in my garage to cool off and stop the fermentation process. I have had 1 bottle per week since bottling and it is only getting tastier.


Everything that touched the Cider was completely clean and sanitized. Cleaned with easy clean, sanitized with K-meta then rinsed with boiling water.


I would not add 2 lbs of brown sugar. My next batch I will get the SG up by adding frozen apple juiceconcentrate.


If you want a good tasting easy recipe just use the apple juice and the yeast. Friends of mine do it all the time and never check sg or add k-meta andit tastes great about a week after bottling.


I did not use a clarifier, I was told that a clarifier could make it difficult for it to carbonate within the bottle. If I was doing a "still or flat"cider I then would. I also did not add any potassium sorbate to it. I did not need to add any more yeast to it at bottling. Mine is certainly not clear and the bottles have some lees on the bottom. This is just fine with me, it reminds me of a good German Heffy Veisen. (I think I spelled that wrong butyou get the idea) 


It's a pretty easy recipe and is pretty darn good. 


earl


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## maize (Mar 27, 2006)

Thanks Earl - 





Sounds good. I noticed a lot of recipes use honey - have you tried that. I have a good source of fresh honey I could use. What do you suppose the taste difference is of not using the brown sugar?


Also, how clear was the cider when you racked to the primary for bottling and did you get a SG? My real concern is if I let it go too long in the secondary and then don't have a good yeast population to take advantage of the priming.


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## earl (Mar 27, 2006)

Maize


I had heard that using regular cane sugar can add a tartness to the cider. So I thought that brown sugar would round it out a bit. The taste of brown sugar, instead,overpowers the apple a bit. I have read where honey is a pretty good primer, but it may take a whilelonger for the cider to get carbonated. If you want to use honey try 1/2 with honey and 1/2 without. I have had "apple juice" cider with only a couple offrozen grape juice concentrates used to bring the sg up and it was great. Your call on the brown sugar or not.


The guy I got this recipe from is strictly a beer brewer.Everything he does is about fermenting stuff in bottles to get carbonation. If you ferment in the primary then rack to a secondary, you could leave it for awhilebefore you would not get a fermentation in the bottle when you sweeten it up. If you read the posts on making wine youwill find folks, Medpretzel recently brought this up, complaining about a secondary fermentation occuring within theirbottles of wine. Don't worryabout trying to induce a fermentation in the bottle, worry about leaving it in the carboy too long and spoiling it. 


My suggestion is to buy a few gallons of juice, and 1 can of apple juice concentrate. Mix it up in a primary with yeast nutrient. When the temp. is right then pitch the yeast on top of it.Cover it up and let it sit for 5 days. Rack it to acarboy then let it sit for about a week or so thenprime with a 1/3 cup of sugar in solution then bottle it. Tast it along the way to see if it is what you want to make, if notthen tweak the recipe for next time.


It was not very clear when I racked it to my primary to bottle, but I still left a bunch of lees on the bottom of the carboy. 


This was a fun easy to do recipe, and if it didn't turn out I was only out a few bucks. 


earl


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## maize (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks again Earl:


For the honey - I was talking about adding it at the beginning. A few recipes posts list brown sugar and honey to start the batch. I will take you advice and at least reduce the brown sugar - maybe to 1 lb and use some honey and concentrate to get the SG up to above 1.070.


Corn sugar and concentrate seem to be the popular primers. If I fill a carboy- I would probably leave it in the secondary for 7-10 days at 70F and then rack to the primary, prime and bottle.


This will be a mid April project - but I'll let you know how it goes.


Thanks again.


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## earl (Mar 28, 2006)

Maize


That sounds great. My next one, in just a few days, I am going to use:


2.5 gallons of apple juice


3 frozen apple/raspberry concentrates


nutrient 


yeast


I am going to take an initial sg then just do the rest with time and tasting. I will probably get a 3 gal. carboy to rack it into just in case I decide to make it a wine instead.


earl


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## maize (Mar 29, 2006)

Earl:


Keep me updated how the new "blend" works and tastes. I'm looking right at Easter to slide it between a couple wine kits. So you may be getting near the bottling stage by then. The flavored apple concentrate is something I was toying with - since they sell so many of those now a days.


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## earl (Apr 2, 2006)

Maize


I decided to make a Apple wine instead, but the Cider I made is fantastic and getting better every day. I said earlier that I wouldn't add that much brown sugar again, but given about a month in the bottle and it is fantastic. Cider is a great way to enjoy the fruits of your labor early.


earl


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## maize (Apr 17, 2006)

Earl:


Well I started a cider batch last night. I did use the recommended Campden amount and added yeast nutrient, yeast energizer, acid andpectin enzyme. I decided to go with a 6 gal lot, since it wasn't much different in cost from a 3 gal and I am sharing it with a friend. I added 1 1/2 lbs of brown sugar, 1 lb of honey and 3 cans for frozen concentrate. The SG at 76F was 1.076. I used 3 different brands of AJ cider, but could not tell much of a difference when I tasted them fresh.


Hope you apple wine is coming along nicely!


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## earl (Apr 17, 2006)

Maize


How much Campden did you use?? 


Did you go with 1 tablet per gallon or were you shooting for a specific parts per million of sulfite? 


It sound like you will have a fine batch of cider in a couple of weeks.


earl*Edited by: earl *


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## maize (Apr 18, 2006)

Earl:


This was all bottled juice, so I cheated just a little and added 5 tablets for the 6 gallons. I remember you saying that maybe I could skip the K-meta, but I chickened out. Fermentation was going slowly afer 24 hours - last night and had picked up some this morning. According to my hybdrometer, the alcohol content should be near 10% - that should make some very HARD cider!


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## earl (Apr 18, 2006)

Maize


I did a little research on pasteurization, and commercial juice pasteurization kill approx. 99.99% of foreign bacteria, yeast, mold etc. With my apple wine I added way too much sulfite and consequently the fermentation did not start. I waited 18 hours and made a starter then it took off.I am going to quitusing k-meta on pasterized juicefor my next few batches to see if any of them fail. I figure with.01% chance of catching aspore ofsome kind its worth the chance. 


Also fermentation will produce SO2 which protects it from unwanted organisms. 


When you rack it off the lees let me know how it tastes. I've found I taste sulfur at low concentrations and it drives me nuts.


Do your campden tablets tell you what size they are? Does it give you the amount of K-meta in each one?


earl


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## maize (Apr 19, 2006)

Earl:


Seems like my fementation is on track with what I see with kits. It usually takes 2 days to get near peak fermentation. The must is up to about 80F after starting around 72F.I gave it a good stir this morning and saw a lot of action.


I added about 500ppm k-meta to just over 6 gal of juice. After your last post on pasteurization, I think I could have dropped that down or skipped it. Just wanted to be safe. I don't know if a half dose of K-meta would do ANY good or not.


I would expect to rack it sometime this weekend - I'll let you know how it tastes - but right now I'd say it is looking gooood.


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## earl (Apr 19, 2006)

Maize


How are you determing 500 ppm? 500 ppm would equal about 3 tsp of kmeta. 6 campden tabs is about 50 ppm or so depending on the size of the tablet.


I recently ran a test on a commercial wine, a white, and it came in at 12 ppm of sulfites. I've gotten myself in trouble by adding too much sulfite to wine. 


earl


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## maize (Apr 20, 2006)

Earl:


I go by volume - and maybe I miss read the label. I added 5/8 teaspoons of K-meta. I quickly read the label yesterday morning and I thought it said 1/8 tsp was 100ppm. I also use the conversion of 1/8 tsp = approx 1 campden tablet. If it helps, the K-meta powder comes from George.


Thanks,


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## maize (Apr 20, 2006)

Earl:


I looked over things this at lunch and realize I probably did add enough for 450-500 ppm - in 1 gallon. When I divide by 6 gallons I am in the 75-80ppm range. I still don't know if that was needed, but 75ppm seems standard. In your research have you been able to find out if say 35ppm provides any protection, or is near 75 ppm the minimum to control potential contamination.


Thanks again


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## earl (Apr 20, 2006)

Maize


There seems to be 2 camps when it comes to adding sulfite. Don't add any until after fermentation, and go ahead and add prior to fermentation. How much you add prior really depends on how clean your "winery" and fruit is. With pasteruized juice I am really leaning more and more toward not adding any prior to fermentation. 


The goal of sulfite is to get maximum protection with minimul sulfite. I would think that 35ppm would be plenty if everything is clean, sanitized and you have pasteurized juice.35ppm is plentywhen the wine is in the bottle. Jon Iverson recommends 50 ppm in the must then measure the sulfite after the wine is stabilized and add enough to get to around 40 ppm. The commercial reisling I measured was at about 12 ppm, it was a 2004. 


I would recommend not adding any more until after you stabilize the wine. Just prior to racking off the lees check the sulfite levels and adjust, if necessary, to get the amount you want. If you have to add sulfite, add it before racking to get the maximum benefit of it. 


earl


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## masta (Apr 20, 2006)

The minimum amount of sulfite required for protection of any wine can be calculated and adjusted if you know the pH. The lower the pH the less free sulfite you need. Then you have to determine the length of time you plan to store the wine before drinking. When I gathered the info below for a past newsletter article on sulfites I did not find much on how quickly the free sulfites drop over time. 


pH and Sulfites 


Molecular SO2 is the principal form of free SO2 that is responsible for anti-microbial activity. The amount of molecular free SO2 available is a direct function of the pH of your must or wine. Since the lower the pH (more acidic) the more molecular SO2 is available, sulfite additions should be calculated with reference to pH. Not every home wine maker has a pH meter so general guidelines are written so the amount of sulfite added would provide the protection your wine needs based on a average pH for the style of wine. It has been written that the amount of molecular SO2 needed to protect your wine is a level of ~0.8 mg/l. The chart below shows the amount of free SO2 needed to provide protection of molecular SO2 at the level of 0.8 mg/l. Remember that the level of free SO2 will slowly decrease over time, so if you plan to age your wine for an extended period of time you need to increase the amount of sulfite added so you don’t lose the protection over the years 


Free SO2 required for a level of 0.8 mg/l molecular SO2 



<TABLE =tableNew borderColor=#0033cc cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 align=center border=2>
<T>
<TR bgColor=#ffff00>
<TD noWrap width="52%">
pH Level</TD>
<TD noWrap width="44%">
Free SO2 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
2.8 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
8 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
2.9 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
10 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.0 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
12 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.1 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
16 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.2 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
20 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.3 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
25 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.4 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
31 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.5 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
39 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.6 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
49 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.7 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
62 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.8 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
78 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
3.9 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
98 </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52%">
4.0 </TD>
<TD width="44%">
124 </TD></TR></T></TABLE>


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## maize (Apr 21, 2006)

Earl and Masta


Thanks for the great information! I will have to keep this chart in my files for reference. This is valuable information for my wine making - something I have thought about doing more research on, but haven't gotten around to it.


For my hard cider, I am sure I have more than enough SO2 for the duration. I don't plan for it to be around more than a couple of months.


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## MedPretzel (Apr 21, 2006)

Wonderful info, Masta!









Thanks!








M.


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## earl (Apr 21, 2006)

Maize


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=5418


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=5412


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=6893


Check out these supplies. They are what you need to measure and determine proper PH levels in your wine.Be careful if your winehas a highpH, you may want to adjust it prior to adding a bunch of sulfite or you may get a sulfur smell.





earl *Edited by: earl *


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## earl (Apr 21, 2006)

Maize


There is also a formula you can use to determine the amount of sulfite you need to add. It looks like this:


(ppm neededX liters of wine) / .57 = Grams of sulfite.


Take 3.758 times the amount of gallons you have to get the amount of liters. So for 5 gallons it is 19 liters. 


PPM is expressed as a decimal. If you need 20 ppm that equals .020.


Kmeta is is 57% sulfite by weight so that is where the .57 comes from.


If you need 20ppm for 5 gallons the equation would look like this:


(.020X 19 liters) / .57 = .66 grams of Kmeta


So if you needed 20 ppm for 5 gallons you would need .66 grams of Kmeta.


Isn't this fun!






But what if you do not have a scale? Well there is a formula for that also.


There are between 5.5 and 6.3 grams of Kmeta per teaspoon. So if you divide .66 by 5.5 you get = .12 This is 12% of a teaspoon. How you would measure 12% of a teaspoon I do not know. But it is pretty close to an 1/8th of a teaspoon. I use a measurer that came with some of my kids medicine to get close. I need to buy a scale.


earl


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## maize (Apr 24, 2006)

Earl:





Thanks for the links and calculations. I can measure PH and have a decent scale - although I have used volume because it is quick and easy to this point. I do not have the sulfite test - I may look to add this to my next order - May specials are just around the corner and I am also waiting for George to get the new Crushendo kits in - so it likely won't be long.


Racked the cider yesterday at 1.000. It was still pretty cloudy and the taste was fair - not enough apple flavor at this point, some sulfite (not too bad), didn't notice the brown sugar - I did use the light brown sugar vs the dark. The glass dropped a lot of sediment in 4 hours and the carboy is starting to clear nicely - I love watching the sediment lines in carboys!


When Iprime, I will likely add some of the apple concentrate from George and use a can of concentrate. Then I will need to figure how much sugar that is so I can suppliment with corn sugar. That process should be fun, since I get to taste and play with the flavor before bottling!


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## maize (May 4, 2006)

Earl:


Looks like it's a go to rack, prime and bottle my cider this weekend while you will probably be enjoying the wine makers gathering. Any last suggestions or watch outs to consider. I plan to taste, adjust (apple concentrate, acid, sweetness, etc) and prime. All I have to do is finish cleaning the 65 beer bottles before then!!!!


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## earl (May 5, 2006)

Maize


If you use apple concentrate, ie. frozen from the can, be careful with the amount of sugar you add. I used 1 can of frozen concentrate with 1/3 cup of sugar and mine was carbonated within a week. If you are after an apple taste use the apple flavoring... http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=3500 this will give you an apple flavor with minimal effect on the carbonation. I would check a bottle every 5 to 7 days to check carbonation. If you get a loud fizz or it spouts from the bottle then cool it off and leave it in the fridge until you are ready to drink it. 


I promise you, about a month to 6 weeks in the bottle, and you will have a completely different cider then you started with.


Great Job


earl


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## maize (May 8, 2006)

Earl:


Well it went pretty smoothly this weekend. Didn't read your last post before proceeding. So I added 6 oz of corn sugar (had read 6-8) and 1 can of concentrate along with 1-2 oz (about 1/2 of the small bottle) of Georges apple flavoring. It was very tasty as we bottled it. We ended up with about 66 bottles worth - but I only had 65 bottles, so the last one is in a half full screw top wine bottle. That's the one I will check first later this week. I'm really looking forward to having a little come Memorial Day.


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 11, 2007)

Here I am again...found this old Post and will continue along with a new batch...

The last batch was a hit, it was rationed form day one...so this time will make a batch and then try to get another one going soon...so we will never be short of Hard Apple Cider....[Or what ever you like to call it]

Started with:

-6 gallons store brand Apple Juice [S.G. 1048]
[they called it cider] ingredients were apple juice and ascorbic Acid [Vitamin C] 

-9 cartons frozen apple juice concentrate [Old Orchard..use what you have]









This brought the S.G. to about 1066 [want it about beer % alcohol volume]







Added:

-6 crushed campden tablets
-4 tsp Acid blend
-4 tsp Liquid tannin

Stir it up...






Will wait till tomorrow and ....

Add:
-3 tsp Pectic enzyme
And:
-3 tsp Yeast Energizer
-6 tsp Yeast Nutrient
Munton's Ale Yeast 
[Was happy with this yeast last time around....it finished at about S.G.1000.....next batch I might try Côtes des Blanc...it is suppose to make good cider, and should leave some residual sugar also]

Will prime this like beer with corn sugar and bottle in beer bottles....Hope it's as good as the last batch....


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## masta (Feb 11, 2007)

Awesome.....So little time and so many things to make!


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## Wade E (Feb 11, 2007)

Just remember to keep it nice and warm and be patient as this yeast is
a little TEMPermental and slow to start. Ive used this yeast quite a
few times and every time seems to take longer then the last but always
works.


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## OGrav (Feb 20, 2007)

1.066, that's some strong beer! How is the apple flavor with the store bought juices? I wanted to try cider/wine myself but store bought juice was all I could find. Growing up, I could go down the street to the mill and pick up twenty gallons fresh from the press. I guess those days are over. I was afraid of the juice being diluted. Have you bottled already? I've heard that the champagne yeasts work good here.


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 21, 2007)

It gets good flavor by bringing the S.G. up with frozen apple concentrate..

It needs to get racked again...soon...






I used Ale yeast as it finishes with some residual sugars and probably some yeast left, then it primes nice with corn sugar and gets nice and carbonated.Next batch I am going to try Côtes des Blanc...and see if the flavor is different...


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 24, 2007)

Going to rack the Hard Apple Cider tomorrow...took a look at it tonight and it is clearing nicely....


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## Wade E (Feb 24, 2007)

Looking good NW. Can you describe what this tases like by any chance? I know its hard but I tried to make it once and either I screwed it up really really bad or I just dont like it flat out but I think I just screwed it up. I used really good apple cider and wine yeast but thats about all I remember.


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 24, 2007)

It tastes like.....well....fizzy apple juice with a bit of a beer taste....Don't know if the beer taste comes from the yeast or just our imagination...

Next batch I am going to use a wine yeast..Côtes des Blanc...I am interested to see what flavor comes out of that....Gee....So many things to try....and they all take time...Sure makes winter fly by tho...

It is pretty inexpensive to make...give it another try...you might surprise yourself...


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## OGrav (Feb 24, 2007)

Probably your yeast. That carboy looks great! Years ago apple wine was my first try before I had access to wine yeast. It was going great for a couple weeks before it got stuck, though it smelled phenomenal. Probably for this, the lower the alcohol, the more apple flavor maintained. I gotta try it, can you or Wade recommend a brand for the apple juice or should I just pick whatever's available? I might put together a gallon or 4L batch tomorrow. I have some grolsch bottles just begging to be filled with it. Another option, toss some hops in with the next batch. Hey, I think this is Old World brewing!


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## NorthernWinos (Feb 25, 2007)

Use what ever you can find...as long as it doesn't have any preservatives that might hinder the fermentation...if it says Ascorbic Acid [Vitamin C] that is fine.

Sometimes you get lucky and the juice comes in glass jugs...great for Little carboys.

I saw a Post on another Forum...[sorry George] the guy made 5 one gallon batches...used a different yeast in each batch...I check back there now and then to see how it is going.

Not many Cider Brewers here....maybe more of us should try it and help each other along with ideas.

Keep us Posted on your venture....photos are nice too.


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## Wade E (Feb 25, 2007)

I only tried once using really good apple cider fresh pressed and dont know what happened but did not come out good but that was when I first started making wine and had no idea what I was doing so I cant help. I will have to try again when good cider is available.


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## grapeman (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm with you there NW. More of us should try to make hard apple cider/ apple wine, or apple whatever. I've made a fair amount of it over the last few years, but I haven't really found a killer combination. I would love to hear how other people try it and what recipes, yeast, juice, cider used etc. Descriptions of taste would be especially helpful.


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 26, 2007)

The Hard Apple Cider has cleared so nicely that I think we are going to prime and bottle it real soon.... = another empty carboy...


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## Wade E (Mar 26, 2007)

Prime? What do you mean by prime NW? (Never mind as I just read your
post lower down) So its kinda like a sparkling. Do you degorge these
too and use champagne bottles or just enough sugar to give it a little
kick and have you ever blew a bottle ding this!


*Edited by: wade *


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 27, 2007)

We 'prime' at bottling with 
-3/4 cup of corn sugar dissolved in a small amount boiled water..[cooled]
-1 tsp Ascorbic Acid to keep the color...


Use a yeast that hopefully doesn't use itself up during fermenting...like a cider yeast, ale yeast and have heard Côtes des Blanc works...going to try that one next.


We bottle in beer bottles and crown caps..let them sit at room temp or 65* for a couple weeks. 


We do not dégorge these...at time of drinking just gently pour from the bottle and leave a bit behind in the shoulder of the bottle...there is a small amount of sediment..like homemade beer sometimes gets.


Have never had a bottle blow, nor a cap. Seems the longer it sit the fizzier it gets.


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## JWMINNESOTA (Mar 27, 2007)

That looks a lot clearer than I imagined it would be, gonna have to try me a batch of that, soon as I get an empty carboy I reckon.


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## Ippymiss (Mar 27, 2007)

NW,,, that looks like our hard apple cider , Glad the color looks the same..... how long has it been the carboy before bottling?. I will have to get the hubby to get ours out of hiding so I can take a picture of it. Has been in carboy final stage for one month in the basement covered


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for the complement... It really was nice and clear, had been in the carboy only 6 weeks...but itfor sure was finishedand we bottled it today....I had an extra 1/2 jug and a small bottle too...we got 69 bottles...






So...have an empty carboy and primaries....mixed a batch of Strawberry/Red Grape....this time I put the oak in the Primary as well as a couple Vanilla Beans...did the same to a batch of Raspberry last week and I think it will be really nice....was good at first racking.


Ippymiss...show us yours too...what recipe did you use????...always open for new ideas....we want to make another batch soon to get us through summer.






Wish my Sparkling Apple Wine was this clear....got a batch that is slower than normal in clearing....?*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Ippymiss (Mar 27, 2007)

well I went down to uncover the carboys and we seemed to have lost some wine somewhere?? dont know where it may have went. 

The first pict is of the Hard apple day 1 one carboy and the second is 5 weeks later and is more brown and lost wine


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## Ippymiss (Mar 27, 2007)

2nd pict is 5 weeks later and lost some wine and is brown, uggggg did we do something wrong?recipe....... 


Ingredients :
5 gal of apple juice Plus 3 cans of frozen concentrate
5 pounds of sugar
5 campden tablets crushed
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
2 1/2 tabl acid blend
1 tsp wine tannin


Cover will towel for 24 hours 


add : 2 tbls Yeast nutrient
1 packet of Yeast EC-1118 .After 5-7 days tran to carboy



*Edited by: Ippymiss *


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## Ippymiss (Mar 27, 2007)

this is our Green Apple Riesling ready to bottle. Looks like your hard apple NW.


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## grapeman (Mar 27, 2007)

Apple can brown easily, which is why NW and a lot of us use ascorbic acid. It acts as a preservative and helps keep many fruit wines from oxidizing(browning). When you covered it, was it done fermenting? If it was actively fermenting, sometimes it will foam over which makes the level low. That extra airspace could have allowed extra oxygen in and brown the apple. If you had racked it(like it looks like) and topped it back up, then you might have a "wine thief" at work


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## Ippymiss (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks, It did foam alot when we mixed and racked to the primary . damn, damn, damn... did we lose a batch..... the recipe did NOT call for the ascorbic acid...... soooooooooo, What do we do. TOSS.......... or what ? when we racked the recipe said after 5-7 days or if the SG reaches 1.040 (which it did) rack to carboy. We didnt want to top with more juice for fear of re-fermentation. I think we goofed! and we were so pleased with ourselves too. *Edited by: Ippymiss *


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 27, 2007)

I agree...Wine Thief...



That's a lot of missing wine....what a shocker..






We have Wine Fairies here that take whole bottles...we put bottles in the cellar and they seem to disaapear...racks never stay full.....






I think it is probably okay...taste it, rack it and maybe top it up with something...or add marbels to displace the void in the carboy...


Keep us Posted on the Disappearing Wine Mystery....*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Ippymiss (Mar 27, 2007)

As I look at the picts we didnt need to top off...... so what could have happened to the wine? really.......... if we have wine thieves then the 16 yr old thief is going to be grounded for life..lol.......... no , I know he didnt do that... he doesnt trust our wine until it is bottled.......lol......has to be some logical reasoning. 


OK. tomorrow we will taste it and what do you suggest we top it with besides marbles would like to use something...... if I top with apple juice then I have to stop it from fermenting again ? correct?......... I'm so lost here........sorry if Im rambling........ I going to bed to sleep on it........ Thanks everyone!*Edited by: Ippymiss *


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 28, 2007)

Ippymiss.....Don't be so nervous...[easy for me to say] 


Your Cider looks pretty clear...you might be just as well to carefully siphon it off, leave as much sediment behind and prime [if you want it fizzy] and bottle it now.


OR.....


If you have enough airlocks and want it to settle out more...you could age it a bit longer in some gallon jugs and wine bottles with airlocks for awhile.


Don't be too impressed with the flavor at this point...I personally don't think it tastes good till it gets a bit of fizz to it.


The color isn't all that bad....mine was lighter color this time. The juice I used this time contained Ascorbic Acid...that probably helped with oxidation....maybe some of your juices didn't have that in it....I always think the frozen juices are browner. Once your Cider is in a glass the color won't be all that brownish. 


Right now I have some apple wine that I want to Sparkle..it is darker than normal...the apple juice was from my own apples and were very red, the juice was pinkish...so am not surprised about the color of the juice...I think next time I will add Ascorbic Acid to my homemade juice when I mix up a batch of Sparkling Apple Wine.....might preserve the color.


I add Ascorbic Acid to all my fruit wines at bottling, it is suppose to hold the colors...many people don't do this and I haven't seen it mentioned in many books...it was listed in recipes from a favorite winemaking book, and I started doing it from the beginning of my winemaking experience and just kept doing it to all the fruit base concoctions I make up, usually do it at bottling....but maybe at the onset of fermentation might not be a bad idea, especially on the Apple Cider and wines.


Keep us Posted on how it is coming along...I don't thin it is gone bad...unless the airlock was off....I see many people with carboys that are only that full...when we first started making wine oftan ours were like that and evreything seemed to have worked out.


Good luck...


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 28, 2007)

I might have screwed up...yesterday we bottled our Apple Cider....I looked at my records and saw I had used 3/4 cup of corn sugar to prime...for some reason I thought the last batch was a 5 gallon batch....huummm.....this time I knew there would be more than 6 gallons as we had a full carboy as well as a small jug and a bottle....I calculated 1 teaspoon of corn sugar per bottle.....figured we'd get 65 bottles... 65 X 1 teaspoons = 10.83 ounces [volume] I put 10 onces 1 + 1/4 cup of sugar instead of 3/4 of a cup.......We got 69 bottles.....then after we were done bottling I saw that the last batch was also a 6 gallon batch....I think I over primed this one....Oh Oh!!!






Now I am really wondering about what I did....I am going to leave the cases in the laundry room on top of the floor drain for awhile...We might have some bottle bombs...have never had any before......This may also be some Disappearing Apple Cider....


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## grapeman (Mar 28, 2007)

If you have it fairly ready to bottle(clear enough) you could add 1/4 tsp K-Meta and Sorbate to stabilize the batch. Then you could safely top up with some more apple juice. The down side of this is if you want to make it carbonated like NW does for her Hard Cider. The sorbate will likely impede the action of the yeasts to carbonate it. If you want it a still cider, then I would stabilize and add CLEAR juice. Don't worry at that point if it has a few additives.


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## NorthernWinos (Mar 28, 2007)

When we carbonate we do not add any Sulphite [K-meta] and for sure no Pot Sorbate...






Appleman...should we be adding K-meta if we carbonate??? We never have to this point.


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## grapeman (Mar 28, 2007)

NW, Probably not if it's been working for you and you don't keep it a long time. If they don't want theirs carbonated, then I would add the K-Meta snd sorbate a couple days before adding the juice to top up. I only recommended that if they like it still and want to top up with juice to keep fermentation from starting again, kind of like adding an F-pack from a kit.


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## Ippymiss (Mar 28, 2007)

Thanks everyone. I slept on it, but didnt lose any sleep..lol 
I dont think we are going to carbonate it.. I dont have any K-Meta , guess a trip to the wine store is in store for this weekend!......


what the recipe does say is that is is still fermentating in this stage have about another week then we are to add 5 crushed campden tablets...........THEN BOTTLE........I do think we are going to sweeten it a tad.. and add pot sorbate to prevent re- fermentation........... 


what is K-meta? anyways, I thought I bought all the different chemicals we may need for different wines. 


But I do want to top off with something.. I do have more apple juice, can we add that tonight and then som pot sorbate to stop referm????


ANY IDEAS ARE WELCOME! 




OK, I have so many questions here I am running in circles........ first.......
tonight if we top off with more apple juice do we also add pot sorbate?? its 1/2 tsp per gal............. then let it sit for about another month , then.....when ready to bottle. add 5 campden and wine conditioner to sweeten............ ??? is after we have added the campden and conditioner do we add more Pot sorbate again??


hope its not to confusing!



*Edited by: Ippymiss *


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## grapeman (Mar 28, 2007)

First off K-Meta is the powdered form instead of tablets 


Campden Tabletes= K-Meta or Na-Meta(K being potassium and Na being sodium)


I find the powder easier to use for normal size batches 1/4 tsp is about the same in a 6 gallon batch as the 5 or six Campden tablets. Just stir it in a little water and add it instead of having to grind up the tablets. The apple juice will sweeten it up some, maybe enough for you. What is your specidfic gravity reading now? If it reads about .994 for 2 days without changing it is done now-if it drops betwween readings, check again until you get to readings the same. I have only used the wine conditioner once and will never do it again. They don't list the ingredients in it so you really don't know how much sorbate you are adding with it(plus it just plain changed the taste of my wine sothat I didn't like it at all). 


Once you get the two readings the same, then you can add either campden or K-Meta and the sorbate then. Wait a couple days and then sweeten to taste- remember you might not need to if you added more juice.*Edited by: appleman *


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## Ippymiss (Mar 28, 2007)

Ok, I will take the readings when hubby gets home from work, he is working over to pay for the wine.lol.......If I dont use the conditioner then what would I sweeten with?
I dont have time to go and get the k-meta powder so I guess the well chushed campden will do.


But will wait to sweeten after we add some more juice, it may just be sweet enough for the both of us.....ThankYou, thankYOU..


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## Ippymiss (Mar 28, 2007)

Hubby came home,.


started SG was 1.094, went into carboy when SG was 1.040


TODAY....... SG is .998 at 68 degrees, will take again tomorrow, if it reads the same then add applejuice.... tasted and WOW was really powerful!...... needs to be sweeter, is to dry to me. after we add the juice totop off we are going to let sit another month before adding the campden and bottling.


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## Ippymiss (Mar 31, 2007)

Ok, the SG came out the same .998, we added more apple juice and the campden and sorbate...... will let it sit for a few more weeks and then sweeten a bit and bottle........ we also bottled today, the green apple riesling and the Blackberry cabernet. looks good.


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## Waldo (Mar 31, 2007)

Pstttttttttttttt.....Ippy........Wheres them pictures at?


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## Ippymiss (Mar 31, 2007)

Will post some picts tomorrow. After we bottled 60 some bottles, had to go to friends house for a cookout........ didnt feel like printing out the lablestonight and hubby has a pulled muscle in the back so he cant lift to well right now..... ya know men are babies when it comes to pain....lol.


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## Waldo (Mar 31, 2007)

Not me Ippy....I regularly take a hammer and smash on my fingers, knees, etc just to keep my tolerance to pain at a high level


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## Wade E (Mar 31, 2007)

Ippy, you really should add the k-meta or campden and sorbate and wait
a little while then add juice. Ive done it that way and hadf no
problems but have been told not to do that, to let let the 2 chems get
in there and get to work first. I thunk just adding the juice will
probably sweeten it enough for you. Appleman is right about using the
conditioner. I added it to 1 batch carefully and it changed the taste
drastically. I threw the rest out!


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## Ippymiss (Apr 1, 2007)

After reading everyone's coments, I am not going to sweeten with the conditioner, hubby wanted a drier wine, so he gets his wine. Anything for my man.......lol....... I have 60 bottles of sweeten wine just for me!......lol. Here are picts of bottling the green apple Riesling and the Blackberry Cabernet


Just took a few since we were busy and the cats were trying to see what was going on


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## Waldo (Apr 1, 2007)

Looking good Ippy


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## Wade E (Apr 1, 2007)

Very nice Ipps, Did you add the Apple juice?


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## Ippymiss (Apr 1, 2007)

Yes, we added the apple juice to the hard cider, I guess its a wait and see for now! so its topped off . lets see if we really do have a wine thief..lol


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## grapeman (Apr 2, 2007)

Pssst Ippymiss. If you don't have a wine thief, they are very handy. When I asked if you had one, it was in reference to drawing samples out frequently, thus lowering the carboy. If you get one, which is a special plastic tube, put it under lock and key and only use it as necessary to draw testing samples, etc. Keep out of reach of minors- or thirsty spouses. Here is a link to George's:
http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=5432


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## Ippymiss (Apr 2, 2007)

HaHaHa..... yes we do have a real wine thief....... But the missing wine , we figured was the gas and foam leaving the carboy after we used the drill to mix very well.......lol. Had to be,,,,,


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## NorthernWinos (Apr 13, 2007)

Well....it's been a little over 2 weeks since I put 10 ounces of corn sugar into 69 beer bottles of apple cider to carbonate it....


[should have used 3/4 cup, but used 1 1/4 cup in what I thought was a much larger batch than the last one..]


So...it is already carbonated...



It tastes okay,but is pretty carbonated ....I am thinking this batch should be drank 'young'...just incase.....


Think it will make a good breakfast drink...


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## JWMINNESOTA (Apr 14, 2007)

NW,I have been wanting to start one of these, thinking when I get a free carboy I would jump on it....well, then I realized I have an empty, the 5 gal I was doing beer in before I converted over to wine Funny how the beer days seem long ago and forgotten,and all that equipment got tucked away, anyway, So now I'm gathering up the ingredients, and have a question. Have you ever tried this with a lager yeast? Looking through the freezer I find thats all the beer yeast types I have. Think it would work?


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## NorthernWinos (Apr 14, 2007)

I have only used Ale yeast so far...was thinking of trying Côte des Blancs next time or breaking down and buying a real Cider Yeast.


Is a Lager Yeast one that has to ferment in cooler temps??? 


Let us know if you use it....


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## JWMINNESOTA (Apr 14, 2007)

It does indeed ferment at cooler temps, also it is a "bottom" fermenting yeast, as apposed to ales that ferment from the top. If I followed the method as I did for beer, I would set the carboy directly on basement floor to keep it cool 7 - 15 C being the optimal temp for fermentation.I think it would involve more time, but wonder what taste characteristics it would impart to the apple.


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## JWMINNESOTA (Apr 18, 2007)

Did an experemental 1 gal batch using the lager yeast, I did another
search and found I do indeed have some ale yeast, so think I'll gather
up enough juice to get 5 gal of that going, racked the apple lager, and
down to the basement it went.




Had a great head on it when I racked, wish I had the camera ready for it!


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## NorthernWinos (Apr 18, 2007)

We've been having a bottle of the last batch ofApple Cider when we come in from working outside...it is very refreshing and has some carbonation already....


Think we will polish off the old batch and let this ferment a bit more...I still am nervous about over sugaring it at bottling...so still don't know if I over dosed it or not.


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## JWMINNESOTA (Apr 28, 2007)

I almost forgot I had this going down in the basement, strong ferment still going on, it may turn into something after all ! Apple Lager!






Still havent gathered up the juice to do it with ale yeast, maybe this weekend. This one should be ready to prime and bottle around the 5th or so.


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## NorthernWinos (Apr 28, 2007)

We are really enjoying our last batch of Cider...we started drinking it already only because I thought I has over-primed it and thought it might start to blow the tops....It is nicely carbonating already.


It is very tasty when you come in from working outside...There is a real problem with it tho....It's going fast!!!!! We each had been having a bottle at 'Happy Hour'...that sure adds up....


2 weeks ago the little local store had Old Orchard Juices on sale....the 64 oz bottles.....so I bought 12 for another 6 gallon batch...last week they had the Old Orchard frozen concentrates on sale.....It doesn't get any better than that!!!!!!


Have to bottle some wine to free-up a carboy....but hubby is out field cultivating...has the corn planter facing the field and the seed and fertilizer on hand....so wine isn't a priority....did have him lift the Primary bucket up this morning and I racked the Valiant Grape/toasted oak/vanilla/peppercorn wine into a carboy.....Life is Good!!!!!


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## Waldo (Apr 28, 2007)

How many acres of corn does he plant NW?


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## NorthernWinos (Apr 28, 2007)

He only plants 100 acres of corn and 200 acres of soybeans...he's suppose to be retired......this keeps him off the streets and our pockets empty.


He just starts having fun and then he's done already....then he goes over and helps a friend and they let him drive the big new tractors.....He does payback labor for carpentry work from our friend....think he'd go over there just for fun.


Jim enjoys playing in the dirt with his toys....this year he didn't get 'Iron-Fever' aka 'Green-Fever'....that's when he thinks he needs some newer machinery...and it has to be John Deere.....he enjoys his hobby....and once in awhile it pays off.


Do you need some corn??? Want to make some Corn-Wine.?????..


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## JWMINNESOTA (Apr 28, 2007)

Got the juice together today, wasn't easy with prom going on, Sons a senior, so last hurray, and then he gets a shiny new suitcase



Last one to grow up, life IS getting good! 








Was able to grab a shot, although a little dark, of moms baby boy heading out



Says real men can wear pink! 






Lets hope a football scholarship rolls in, otherwise I'm broke for the next 4 years or so, I'll have to give up something....other than wine!*Edited by: JWMINNESOTA *


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## JWMINNESOTA (Apr 28, 2007)

If corn prices can stay up like they have been recently, his farm hobby can pay for and expand the wine hobby! Lets hope for you they do!


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## NorthernWinos (Apr 28, 2007)

What a handsome dude...love the pink!!!! Who could resist him tonight???


A shinny suitcase??? With his plate in it??? 


My husband always give kids a little Igloo cooler for graduation....


Corn is always high when we have crop failure the previous year.....So it goes!


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 1, 2007)

Walked in from work this A.M. and was greeted by such a wonderful smell! The NW Apple Beer Breakfast Drink! This stuff really smells good, think I better keep a batch going to use as room freshener!


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## hdhunter (May 1, 2007)

I used a natural cider for mine and it will not clear. The cider was very cloudy itself (and also had plenty of "chunks" floating in it) and it seems it has caused it not to clear.


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## NorthernWinos (May 1, 2007)

JWMINNESOTA...you know what they say about an apple a day...


Got to get something bottled so I can start another batch...it is just too good.


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 1, 2007)

hdhunter said:


> I used a natural cider for mine and it will not clear. The cider was very cloudy itself (and also had plenty of "chunks" floating in it) and it seems it has caused it not to clear.




Did you follow NW's recipe? Sounds like what you are seeing is Pectin Haze, just a guess since this is my first apple also. Pectic Enzyme is added to help clear this. Worth mentioning if you used Bentonite, it would negate the effects of the pectic enzyme as well. Guess knowing what recipe you used would be helpful.*Edited by: JWMINNESOTA *


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## NorthernWinos (May 2, 2007)

The store bought juices I used have probably been filtered....Some of those 64oz bottles are actually made from concentrate....so it's pretty clear....not the best, but for this it has been working out okay.


Someday, I hope to have an apple press and make my cider from real homegrown apple juice. I make my Sparkling Apple Wine from our own apples, but use a steam juice extractor to the juice....also not the best....but use what I have.


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## hdhunter (May 2, 2007)

My recipe was very simular......I did not add all the pectic because I ran out. I now have more and I also have some bent.


What would you suggest?


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## smokegrub (May 2, 2007)

Way off topic but what does the word "bent" mean when used in this context?

On topic, somewhat, I cored amnd chopped some apples from my trees last Fall and then boiled them. Then diluted that "mess" and tried to make it into a wine. It did fairly well even though it took forever to clear. Unfortunately. I backsweetened with some frozen concentrate and it clouded back up. Fining didn't help. It is still sitting in the cellar. If it doesn't clear we will drink a cloudy wine!


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## Dean (May 2, 2007)

in this case, I would assume that bent = bentonite, since it can also be used to get rid of protein based hazes, much like pectic enzyme.


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 3, 2007)

hdhunter said:


> My recipe was very simular......I did not add all the pectic because I ran out. I now have more and I also have some bent.
> What would you suggest?




I'm no expert since this is my first also, but I would add the remaining amount of pectic, since adding bentonite now would only negate the effects of the pectic you did add, and give it time.


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## NorthernWinos (May 3, 2007)

Went to the store today for onion sets and seed potaotes...they had Langer's apple juice on sale...I bought 6 gallons.....got to get a carboy or two empty and start more......


After a day out planting garden in the strong winds and my honey out in an air conditioned tractor....we shared 3 beer bottles of Hard Apple Cider tonight and feeling really 'on our way'....to bed!!!!


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 4, 2007)

I had a terrible dilemma, no 5 gal carboy to rack to available, only 6...so I had no choice,I *Had* to top it up and make it a 6 gal batch



Think I will be glad i did. 








MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...*Edited by: JWMINNESOTA *


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 6, 2007)

Primed and bottled the gal of Apple Lager this a.m., think its gonna be good!


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## bmorosco (May 6, 2007)

wow ..I bet they taste great...


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 6, 2007)

Taste? well...I could of gotten 12 bottles, but as NW Say's, it makes a good breakfast drink! Especially after working all night!


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## NorthernWinos (May 6, 2007)

A good day for some wine maintainance....bottled two batches....freed up a carboy for another batch of Hard Apple Cider....


Here are the Dead Soldiers....








Hope it turns out as good as the last two batches.


I am going to try either Côtes des Blanc or EC-1118....have till tomorrow to decide...


Had seen on a Cider Forum a guy made 5 batches all with different yeasts...he said the EC-1118 Champagne yeast had the best flavor....so might try it first.


Have more juice on deck from a recent sale and will try the other yeast on that batch.


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## Wade E (May 6, 2007)

We salute you!


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## NorthernWinos (May 13, 2007)

Racked the cider this morning...








The starting S.G. was 1.060 and today 6 days after pitching the EC-1118 the S.G. was 1.002...so it came down nicely.


I tasted it and found it is drier and cleaner than the cider made with Munton's Ale Yeast, different flavor....still very nice and at this stage things can change. 


Can't really tell till it is carbonated and taste bottle to bottle. I can hardly wait.


BTW...the last batch I thought I had over carbonated using 1 + 1/4 cup Corn Sugar to 69 bottles...so far no bottles have blown and they are nice and carbonated already....Don't think they will last long enough to explode.


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 13, 2007)

Just curios as to how you are going to carbonate this batch, Prime with sugar like beer , or sparkling wine method?


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## NorthernWinos (May 13, 2007)

Prime like beer...then bottle in beer bottles.


When we do sparkling wine we add regular white sugar and yeast...it gets more bubbly.


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## NorthernWinos (Jun 7, 2007)

We went to rack our Cider today...it had been stable about 10 days ago when we last racked it...Today it had little bubbles coming up the sides of the carboy....and...when we racked it to another carboy it was fizzy, like effervessent.....






It was made with Old Orchard Apple juice in 64 oz bottles and brought to 1.060 with frozen Old Orchard Juice Concentrate..no sugar....used EC-1118 yeast this time and the S.G last time was 1.005...today it was 1.005, but expect that will drop with this activity. 


It tastes great and poured in a glass it is just like when we have primed it....real fizzy.


We are experiencing a strong low pressure area right over us and intense storms....


What do you think is going on....????


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