# Chilean Grape numbers



## JohnT (May 13, 2015)

I started a new thread hoping that folks will share their "vitals".. (PH, TA, and BRIX). 

I am very interested in seeing the variations people experience. I will post mine once I pick up my grapes (this Saturday)..


----------



## Angelina (May 13, 2015)

Hey John, does this include juice buckets or just juice from lugs?


----------



## JohnT (May 13, 2015)

I am thinking that the bucket juice is rather stable and would not change much. Fresh fruit, on the other hand, I see changing greatly. 

In short, yes, bucket juice numbers too. 

Thanks.


----------



## Angelina (May 13, 2015)

Mine were all bucket and were tested by the winery before I picked them up.
Sangiovese PH 3.34 TA 0.36 Brix 21
Cab Franc. 3.32 0.45 22.1
Cab Sauvignon 3.26 0.375 21
Pinot Noir 3.2 0.375 21.9
Petit Sirah 3.38 0.375 21
Barbera 3.32 0.39 21.7 
Carmenere 3.3 0.42 22.5
Malbec 3.25 0.39 21.3
Merlot 3.24 0.4 21.6
Syrah 3.31 0.45 22.4
Zinfandel 3.18 0.36 21
Sauvignon Blanc 3.32 0.3 22.4
Moscatel Alejand 3.32 0.27 22
Chardonnay 3.26 0.375 21.5

SO2 was 10ppm in all varieties.


----------



## ceeaton (May 13, 2015)

These are what I picked up from Harford on Saturday:

Pinot Grigio - pH 3.04, TA 5.6 g/L, SG 1.090 (fermenting @ 64*F) - QA 23 yeast
Merlot - pH 3.58, TA 6.0 g/L, SG 1.095 adj (1.094 @ 68* F)(fermenting @ 74*F, must had risen to 78*F at one point) - CLOS yeast

Note that the Merlot bucket had 1 Chilean lug each of Merlot, Cab Sauv, Malbec that had enzymes added (Lallzyme EX-V) for 12 hrs prior to reading, before yeast pitch.

I'm looking for the post on how to test my Reagent since it's LD Carlson and I know others have had issues with the 0.2N solution. I think the Pinot Grigio TA number is too low for the pH, but what do I know.

BTW, the Merlot 20 gal brute trash can smells wonderful, the SG is down just below 1.030 and the strainer bags holding the grapes are about 1/3 of their original size. I'm excited beyond belief.


----------



## JohnT (May 14, 2015)

ceeaton, 

The PH and TA on your PG looks like they agree. It is a little low on acid.

Have you tasted it yet? does it need a little sharpness?

If so, I would add 1/2 tsp of tartaric acid per gallon of must. 

This should raise your TA to a "closer, bit still a tad bit low" level of .635. I would then wait on complete fermentation and clearing and then taste/adjust again.

I normally shoot for .7 on whites, but taste is the ultimate factor..


----------



## ceeaton (May 14, 2015)

The straight juice tasted great, not flabby at all. When I taste preferment, I try and imagine the finished product and the image in my head was "this is gonna be good". 

It was only down to 1.050 this morning, so it's been a nice slow ferment so far, hopefully not blowing off too many of the fruit characteristics. Just added my last 1/2 of Fermaid O (slowly) and the ensuing controlled volcano smelled pretty good.

I was just thinking earlier that if I added any tartaric acid my pH might drop too much, so I pitched my yeast and let 'er rip. I know adjusting pre ferment is better, but I also figured that the numbers were close enough that I could make a small move after it finished fermenting. I can add some acid when I get home tonight, since it still has about 1/2 the sugar to gobble up. I still thought the pre ferment TA was a little low compared to the pH, so I'm glad to hear from you that it isn't anything too abnormal. Thanks.


----------



## berrycrush (May 14, 2015)

Grapes:
Cab Sauv TA=3.0 Brix=25-26
Syrah TA=3.6 Brix=23-24


----------



## JohnT (May 14, 2015)

Berry, 

Is that TA readings or PH? Seems amazingly low for TA....


----------



## berrycrush (May 14, 2015)

It is TA (g/L), not PH. This is just the must. I found the TA edges up once the fermentation is done.


----------



## JohnT (May 15, 2015)

berrycrush said:


> It is TA (g/L), not PH. This is just the must. I found the TA edges up once the fermentation is done.


 
It will edge up, but not that much. Those readings are among the lowest I have ever seen. What are you using to measure TA? Are your chems old?


----------



## berrycrush (May 15, 2015)

I use 0.01N NaOH to titrate a few drop of grape must diluted with 10ml distilled water, basically following some of the procedure in the SO2 test. My NaOH could be old, but then that would yield a higher number.


----------



## JohnT (May 15, 2015)

berrycrush said:


> I use 0.01N NaOH to titrate a few drop of grape must diluted with 10ml distilled water, basically following some of the procedure in the SO2 test. My NaOH could be old, but then that would yield a higher number.


 

Before adjusting, I would go out and purchase a new phenolphthalein/sodium hydroxide acid test kit and try it again. Your TA results look highly suspect. The kit I prefer uses a 3mm sample of must and not a just few drops.


----------



## mcorey (May 19, 2015)

I processed Chilean grapes last weekend as well. Here's what I got (via Vinmetric SC-300):

Cab Sauv: PH 3.55; T/A 5.2 (I adjusted to 6.0 via tartaric)
Malbec: PH 3.25; T/A 4.8 (I adjusted to 6.0 via tartaric)
Carmenere: PH 3.65; T/A 3.4 (I adjusted to 5.0 via tartaric and will adjust again later on)

I took sample from the very top of the must. I'm not sure if I should have mixed the must around more or not. The T/A's seem low.


----------



## ceeaton (May 19, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> These are what I picked up from Harford on Saturday:
> 
> Pinot Grigio - pH 3.04, TA 5.6 g/L, SG 1.090 (fermenting @ 64*F) - QA 23 yeast
> Merlot - pH 3.58, TA 6.0 g/L, SG 1.095 adj (1.094 @ 68* F)(fermenting @ 74*F, must had risen to 78*F at one point) - CLOS yeast
> ...



*Update:*
Merlot - pH 3.52 TA 6.0g/L SG 0.992 @ 72*F - pitched MLB - added 2 oz medium french oak chips
Pinot Grigio - pH 2.75 TA 6.2g/L SG 1.000 @ 65*F (still fermenting)(had added 1/2 tsp/gallon tartaric acid to up TA per JohnT's recommendation)
Both taste very good at this point. Waiting to taste PG once dry and Merlot as MLF progresses. Need to order Malic testing kit (gotta wait for payday)


----------



## berrycrush (May 21, 2015)

I pressed on Wednesday, and measured again last night. Here is the new number:
PH=3.8
TA=6g/L
The wine is still bubbling in the carboy, so that number includes the carbon dioxide


----------



## ceeaton (Sep 5, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Pinot Grigio - pH 2.75 TA 6.2g/L SG 1.000 @ 65*F (still fermenting)(had added 1/2 tsp/gallon tartaric acid to up TA per JohnT's recommendation)



Bottled the Pinot Grigio today. I'd like to thank @JohnT for his recommendation to add some tartaric acid. Going by the book I was hesitant to add it as I knew my pH would drop below 3.0. Now that I have bottled it, I am very happy with the results.

I left a sample from bottling for my wife for when she arrived home after work. She loved it!

Funny how today she was having a conversation at work with an 80+ yr old Italian Gentleman who makes wine. He is just going nuts because he has 40 gallons to bottle and wants to get out of rehab and go home. She was talking about some of the wines I have aging, he was only interested about the Pinot Grigio, Sangiovese and the description of the Forza. Any wine that had fruit in it elicited the response of "that's not real wine". He only makes wine with whole grapes, like his Dad and Papa did.

You Italians are tough customers. Keep it up!


----------



## JohnT (Sep 6, 2015)

Any chance that you could send me a sample? Would love to taste it!


----------



## ceeaton (Sep 6, 2015)

JohnT said:


> Any chance that you could send me a sample? Would love to taste it!



I think we can arrange that. Someone gave me a shipping box that can hold what looks like 6 x 750 ml bottles. Will have to wait until the PG gets at least 6 months old! Maybe I'll save that box for next year when I can fill it out with the Forza, Sangiovese, Diable Rojo, Bordeaux (Merlot heavy) and Dornfelder. I'm sure I can devise something for a single bottle, I have friends in shipping...

I'd love your opinion on the taste and especially the body. I know many here say that the Chilean whites lack body, I'm just not tasting that! Guess I shouldn't really worry, I've impressed the one person who's opinion matters most to me, my Wifes'.


----------



## ceeaton (Sep 20, 2015)

Sampling a bottle (375 ml). Think I need a Zantac. Really, really acidic. Would go great with a shrimp scampi or dish with an alfredo sauce. I think this wine will only improve with age, the acid will mellow a bit but it should keep it's stone fruitiness for a while. I look forward to some sampling with some rustic pasta dishes this winter.


----------

