# Possible stuck MLF on cab Sauvignon



## Peter1 (Dec 19, 2013)

I'm currently 8 weeks into the MLF on my Cabernet Sauvignon wine. My pH was at 3.4 when I inoculated with ML, alcohol level was 13.5% so all my analytics were in line for a solid MLF. I used RC212 and BM45 yeasts in two separate batches, which both are MLF friendly. I did my paper chromatography test on 11/11/13 and again on 12/11/13. The results were exactly the same. Malic, lactic, and tartaric acid all present - all apparently in equal amounts on both tests. I'm thinking that the temp in my basement winery is too cold - my wine temp dropped to 63F at one point. So, I've moved the carboys to the main level of the house and the wines are now around 68-70F. Will this temp increase restart MLF? Or have the bacteria died off due to the cold and should I reinnoculate with fresh ML bacteria? Also, not sure if the prolonged MLF - 8 weeks now- will have a negative effect on the wine? Any thoughts? Appreciate any help!


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## mjrisenhoover (Dec 19, 2013)

My 2013 Merlot got colder than that during a recent cold snap and then started back up after it warmed up, I even see some tiny bubbles if I use a flashlight, so I think you will be just fine. Maybe wait a couple of weeks or three and test again.

Last year I had a Cabernet Sauvignon go through MLF for more than two months, it turned out really well but I should of warmed it up more. It's kind of risky to go that long. Hope this relieves some of your concerns.


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## Peter1 (Dec 19, 2013)

It does, thanks for the reply. I'll let it sit for another month in the warmer area and rerun the chromatography analysis again.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 19, 2013)

Which MLB did you use?


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## Peter1 (Dec 20, 2013)

I used White Labs WLP675 ML cultures in the liquid vial form. I haven't used this strain before but had read it was cold tolerant down to 55F. My ML seemed to start out well - lots of bubbles streaming up the side of the carboy, lactic showing on chromotography test, etc. Then seemed to slow for some reason.

One more detail - I did add some Desulfin to the carboys about 3 weeks ago to eliminate an H2S issue I was noticing. I was told the addition would not harm the progress of MLF by a winemaker - so just trying to figure out how I should jump start MLF. Thanks for any advice!


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 20, 2013)

Peter1,
White Labs MLB is notorious for incomplete and or stuck MLF, you can try to add opti-malo, or if you want to get that MLF going strong again, opti-malo and repitch MLB VP 41.
In the future, I'd wait to add anything like Desulfin until you've tried adding yeast nutrient, or if this is happening during MLF, opti-malo. 

Yeast hulls are another great product to use - Yeast Hulls are usually the first action when you have a stuck or sluggish alcoholic or malolactic fermentation. Yeast Hulls are essentially dead yeast cells that absorb auto toxic yeast by-products and toxins such as decanoic and hexanoic acids and esters.that could be inhibiting your active yeast or ML culture from doing their job - finishing your fermentation.


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## Peter1 (Dec 20, 2013)

Pumpkinman,

Thanks for the advice. I like the option of reinoculating with a different strain of MLB. 

One question - should I give my wine a couple of weeks in the warmer temperature to see if MLF activity restarts? Then, if I haven't noticed progress reinoculate with VP41?


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## geek (Dec 20, 2013)

Peter1 said:


> I used White Labs WLP675 ML cultures in the liquid vial form. I haven't used this strain before but had read it was cold tolerant down to 55F. My ML seemed to start out well - lots of bubbles streaming up the side of the carboy, lactic showing on chromotography test, etc. Then seemed to slow for some reason.
> 
> One more detail - I did add some Desulfin to the carboys about 3 weeks ago to eliminate an H2S issue I was noticing. I was told the addition would not harm the progress of MLF by a winemaker - so just trying to figure out how I should jump start MLF. Thanks for any advice!



exactly what happened with my Merlot using same MLB....initially it went strong, very nice....and then it got stuck.


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## Peter1 (Dec 20, 2013)

geek,

How did you restart your MLF? Did you introduce a new strain (such as VP41) or another culture?


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## geek (Dec 20, 2013)

based on some feedback I decided to use the same strain....since then I have not seen any activities in bubbles at all.


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## manvsvine (Dec 20, 2013)

It's ok to pitch with a new strain.

Those liquid cultures are very delicate to hot or cold durring shipping or storage and the viability drops to nil.

Have you used any nutrient ? Some opti malo would really help. 

If it doesn't get things going vp41 is a very robust strain and it's tole rent of so2


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## Peter1 (Dec 20, 2013)

I haven't used any nutrient as of yet. But will certainly add some opti malo to go along with the warmer temperature. 

I think I will hold off on introducing a new strain of ML culture for a few weeks to see if the combination of warmer temp and opti malo will kick it back in. 

Thanks all for your input!


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 20, 2013)

I wouldn't wait a few weeks, if there isn't any MLF happening, your wine a sitting duck for spoilage organisms. I would raise the temps, within 2 or 3 days, if you don't feel that any MLF is happening, I would repitch with VP41, it'll get things going (honestly, I wouldn't wait any longer), remember, you haven't added any Meta to stabilize and protect the wine while you wait for MLF to complete.


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## terroirdejeroir (Dec 28, 2014)

Pumpkinman said:


> I wouldn't wait a few weeks, if there isn't any MLF happening, your wine a sitting duck for spoilage organisms. I would raise the temps, within 2 or 3 days, if you don't feel that any MLF is happening, I would repitch with VP41, it'll get things going (honestly, I wouldn't wait any longer), remember, you haven't added any Meta to stabilize and protect the wine while you wait for MLF to complete.



I made six batches from lugs and four batches from pails. Used Viniflora Oenos MLB for all with OptiMalo Plus. Good measurables and successful MLF for all except Merlot from grapes and Cab Franc from grapes. I repitched several days ago with hydrated VP-41, gave it a thorough but gentle stir and still no action. I am hoping to use these batches in a blend and would really like to get through MLF. 

Ambient air temperature is 72 degrees. I would appreciate any recommendations on how best to proceed.


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## JohnT (Jan 2, 2015)

What are your SO2 levels? Anything over 30pp is bad.


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## terroirdejeroir (Jan 2, 2015)

Haven't added any so2 since crush. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## terroirdejeroir (Jan 3, 2015)

Is it possible that the bacteria ran out of nutrients? I started MLF on fine lees with OptiMalo Plus per the directions, but a couple of batches stalled. Repitching MLB didn't help, so I decided to add some additional OptiMalo Plus as an experiment with a third MLB culture (VP-41). I added the nutrient then went into the other room to rehydrate the MLB. When I came back fifteen minutes later the wine was already showing signs of MLF (bubbles). 

I originally decided not to add nutrient when I repitched, reasoning that if the MLF didn't finish there must be nutrients left. Didn't want to feed the nasties...


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