# Which Red varietal - local vineyard



## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

By accident I just found a small vineyard that sells grapes to the public that is only 18 miles away from my home. I've never tried any of these, and that is where I will start once I get paid next week (and can afford a few bottles of wine). 

I'm looking for anyone who has made wine from one of these grapes and your impressions, good or bad. They are all the same price ($1.35 per lb). They are Dornfelder, Regent, Noiret and Cabernet Franc.

I can get them by the pound, no need for whole lugs. Also, I know it depends on the year and variety, how many pounds per finished gallon should I aim for, is 15 to 20lbs in the ballpark?

I can also get several white varieties and have narrowed it down to Vidal (.65/lb), Chardonel (.70/lb) and Seyval (.60/lb). I'll probably let my wife choose the white variety and from the descriptions I've read she'll probably go for the Chardonel.

Thanks,


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## heatherd (Aug 27, 2015)

Craig,

That is a good find!!

I have had a Maryland commercial Vidal and liked it. Also made Californian Cabernet Franc and liked it.

If I recall it's 100 pounds of grapes for 6 gallons with the usual caveats. After racking, you'll be more in the range of 5 gallons unless you top off or use some other means to take up space.

Heather


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 27, 2015)

I'd go with the Cabernet Franc. But I've not had any of the other varieties you mentioned. 

In my experience, 36lbs gets me about 2.5 gallons of wine - on average. For a 6 gallon batch, I'd just keep it simple and go with 120lbs. That way you've got some top up wine.


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## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

heatherd said:


> I have had a Maryland commercial Vidal and liked it. Also made Californian Cabernet Franc and liked it.



When my wife and I were at Harford this Spring, she did a tasting that had a sample of both their Vidal and Chardonnay in it, and she liked both. Just not so sure how close in taste a Chardonel is to a Chardonnay, so she gets to choose.

I'm leaning towards the Cabernet Franc since I was thinking of that one if I ordered juice/grapes from California. Just intrigued by the other varieties he has, guess there are other years (And next year I won't buy 3 expensive kits in the Summer and use up my Fall juice money).

Also like the idea of a 40 minute round trip verses 3 hours if I need to make multiple trips to pick up varieties that ripen at different times.


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## ibglowin (Aug 27, 2015)

Definitely go with the Chardonel for the white, Cab Franc can be good but if not ripe can be a problem child with herbaceous notes so be careful with that one. Noiret I am growing and it is one of the best cold hardy varietals out there. Very similar to a Syrah with lots of spice/pepper notes.


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## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Definitely go with the Chardonel for the white, Cab Franc can be good but if not ripe can be a problem child with herbaceous notes so be careful with that one. Noiret I am growing and it is one of the best cold hardy varietals out there. Very similar to a Syrah with lots of spice/pepper notes.



Mike, thank you for the Noiret information.

As far as the Cab Franc goes, is there a certain brix that once achieved the amount of herbaceous notes can be minimized?

The owner is very good at returning emails and I'm sure he'd give me that information if I requested it. I should probably just email him and ask him what brix he plans to pick it at anyway.


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## sour_grapes (Aug 27, 2015)

I have enjoyed commercial Dornfelders, mostly in Germany. They were very approachable, medium bodied wines (like a Pinot Noir). Very pleasant and drinkable, fruity, with moderate tannins, and a little spice.

The Source of All Knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornfelder) confirms this impression, but notes that vinification style is shifting towards deeper-bodied wines. (Evidently, the grape itself is capable of producing a dark, fuller-bodied wine, but the prevailing style was to vinify them to make a lighter wine.)


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## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> I have enjoyed commercial Dornfelders, mostly in Germany. They were very approachable, medium bodied wines (like a Pinot Noir). Very pleasant and drinkable, fruity, with moderate tannins, and a little spice.



Paul, I'll have to search our State Store database and see if they offer any commercial examples. That is the variety that I'm most curious about and have read about the deep dark luscious reds they can (sorry, had to mop up some drool) make. Can't say I've seen other places offering that one or the Regent, which is another German red variety.

If this place has quality grapes I'll eventually make all of them (he says he has 30+ varieties, but I'm guessing some of the vines are rather new and not producing much yet).


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## wineforfun (Aug 27, 2015)

Had a Chardonel at a winery down in Missouri. Not a big fan of whites but really like that one.


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## sour_grapes (Aug 27, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Paul, I'll have to search our State Store database and see if they offer any commercial examples.



You might also try a Blaufrankisch, which is also known as Lemberger. This is a grandparent of Dornfelder, and, to my palate, they are similar. I know that there are commercial Blaufrankisch/Lemberger wines out of Washington. Hogue, maybe?


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## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> ...Blaufrankisch...



Won't even try to pronounce that one, but thanks I'll add it to my search.

This is turning out to be quite fun and informational, thank you all for your input as well as those who haven't "inputted" yet.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 27, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> You might also try a Blaufrankisch, which is also known as Lemberger. This is a grandparent of Dornfelder, and, to my palate, they are similar. I know that there are commercial Blaufrankisch/Lemberger wines out of Washington. Hogue, maybe?



A few places here in N. VA are growing it.


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## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

Oooh, found 9 bottles of Valckenberg Dornfelder Rheinhessen
Germany 2012 in Lemoyne. Might not be able to retrieve one until Saturday.


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## sour_grapes (Aug 27, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Won't even try to pronounce that one,



It is pronounced just like it is spelled!


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## ibglowin (Aug 27, 2015)

Brix measures sugar amount but herbaceous notes are caused by a chemical compound methoxypyrazine. Many things can cause it or minimize it. Main thing is physiological ripeness IWO you want nice brown seeds and not green seeds in your Cabernet.

_Here is a list of things to avoid:

1. High moisture content in soils before and after veraison delays methoxypyrazine degradation.
2. Sun exposure to the bunches speeds methoxypyrazine reduction.
3. Removal of leaf shading leaves, done well before veraison, can decrease methoxypyrazine.
4. North –south row orientation give the best results for sun exposure; morning and late afternoon exposure is preferred.
5. Methoxypyrazine decline after veraison follows malic acid decline. Warm nights may also assist in methoxypyrazine decline.
6. Unripe seeds have high levels of methoxypyrazine. Berry sensory analysis before harvest can reveal lack of seed ripeness._



ceeaton said:


> As far as the Cab Franc goes, is there a certain brix that once achieved the amount of herbaceous notes can be minimized?


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## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

Okay Mike,

So we've had a really moist summer. Has been a little less moist lately except for that 2-4 inch rain event we had last Thursday. We have also had more cool nights than normal. I think it was 54*F when I took my walk this morning. Lot's of high 50s and low 60s this August. And I don't control his planting orientation or his leaf removal prior to coloring up.

Assuming I get a batch that has a heavy herbaceous note, will aging time in the carboy diminish that?

Thanks for all of the information, I'm loving this!


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## ibglowin (Aug 27, 2015)

Unfortunately not so much. I bought 3 lugs of Cab Franc from Lodi, AVA back in 2011 which was the worst (coolest) vintage ever on the West coast. The grapes had plenty of brix but when fermented smelled of nothing but bell pepper. Tried everything in the book to get rid of it. Nothing really worked. Bentonite and extra oak helped somewhat. Only thing I could do was to blend that wine in small amounts across 7 different wines to get rid of it. Unless you have had a warm going season wherever you are getting the grapes from I would steer clear of Cab Franc.


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## ceeaton (Aug 27, 2015)

Thanks Mike. I thought that I read somewhere that Cab Franc is often confused taste wise with an unripe Cab Sauv because even in a good year it has some of that green bell pepper flavor and aroma.

Dornfelder and Noiret are looking better and better all the time!

Wife wants Chardonel this year and maybe Vidal infused with peaches next year.


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## BlueStimulator (Aug 28, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> I know that there are commercial/Lemberger wines out of Washington. Hogue, maybe?



I used to drink a Lemberger out of Kiona (Yakima Valley) quite a few years ago. They used to have it at Costco and it was around $9 and now I belive they have their Cab which also used to be about $10 now it it is a lot more. The Lemberger was spicy and had hints of pepper, the first time I had it was with fresh lightly smoked Elk in a juniper berry rub. I was a good match. Sadly I have never been to the winery but I may need to do a field trip


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## Treeman (Aug 28, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Okay Mike,
> 
> So we've had a really moist summer. Has been a little less moist lately except for that 2-4 inch rain event we had last Thursday. We have also had more cool nights than normal. I think it was 54*F when I took my walk this morning. Lot's of high 50s and low 60s this August. And I don't control his planting orientation or his leaf removal prior to coloring up.
> 
> ...




If the seeds are green, you should try to separate them from the must several times during fermentation (delestage). One way to do this is to transfer your cap before a punchdown to another fermentation vessel and then strain the juice as you transfer to leave the seeds behind


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## ibglowin (Aug 28, 2015)

They still make that wine and sell it for $15 at the winery. Kiona was one of the first winery's to plant 12 acres of grapes on very desolate dry hill in WA state way back in 1975 that would later be called *Red Mountain*. They had to put in the road, dig a well for water, and pay for the line to be run for electricity to even run the well. Great success story!



BlueStimulator said:


> I used to drink a Lemberger out of Kiona (Yakima Valley) quite a few years ago. They used to have it at Costco and it was around $9 and now I belive they have their Cab which also used to be about $10 now it it is a lot more. The Lemberger was spicy and had hints of pepper, the first time I had it was with fresh lightly smoked Elk in a juniper berry rub. I was a good match. Sadly I have never been to the winery but I may need to do a field trip


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## ceeaton (Aug 28, 2015)

Talked with my wife and we decided to order 90 lbs of Chardonel and 90 lbs of the Dornfelder. We are hoping the Dornfelder is light enough for her tastes, and if not, too bad, it's all mine!

Owner said the brix of the Chardonel was 19-20 and the Dornfelder 16 last week. He's expecting at least another 10 days and will know more after he checks this weekend.

I'm really excited because the owner is very prompt with his emails and has been sharing lot's of information. And only 20-25 minutes away, what a find. He has about 2000 vines and 30+ varieties, so I hope this is the start of a good long relationship so I get a chance to try them all.

He invited us over for a tour anytime and I expect I'll ask him more about the characteristics of the Cab Franc he has planted so I can get more comfortable with the variety before ordering next year. I'll have to save some of my lunch money so I can order two of the reds (Noiret and Cab Franc) and I have heard that the Vidal makes a nice white wine too.


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## ceeaton (Aug 28, 2015)

Okay, now that I have chosen my grape varieties, what yeast would you use with a Dornfelder? I've used RC212, CLOS and BM4x4 in the past for reds, would any of these be acceptable? I was planning on doing a secondary MLF, unless someone who has experience with these grapes thinks that is ill advised. Thanks.


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## sour_grapes (Aug 28, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Okay, now that I have chosen my grape varieties, what yeast would you use with a Dornfelder? I've used RC212, CLOS and BM4x4 in the past for reds, would any of these be acceptable? I was planning on doing a secondary MLF, unless someone who has experience with these grapes thinks that is ill advised. Thanks.



I'd be tempted to use RC212. One of Dornfelder's grandparents is a strain of Pinot Noir, and RC212 is THE yeast for Pinot Noir. It is also a good all-around yeast for reds. I'd say you couldn't go wrong with it.


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## ceeaton (Aug 28, 2015)

Paul, thanks for the recommendation. I've also been perusing a few sites including Lallemand's, and it seems RC212 and BDX are recommended. Both are also recommended for MLF, which after and email exchange with the vineyard owner was recommended by him (doing a secondary MLF).

One thing I've noticed is that the tannins and acidity of this grape are on the low side (probably why it's so drinkable early on). I have some Lallzyme EX and Opti-Red on hand to help with color extraction/retention, have some FT Rouge for sacrificial tannins and have ordered some Tannin Complex for post fermentation. If it still seems a little limp I also have some Tannin Extra Riche I can add further down the line.

What I need to do is get a hold of some dry Dornfelder so I have a basis and don't over tannin this batch. Presque Isle has an award winning one, just have to get clearance from the boss (wife) to order a few bottles for samples (would be about $45 for two bottles because the Erie area is on the other side of the world shipping wise). Actually not bad for shipping, just wish Runningwolf could send me a free sample 375ml bottle (just kidding Doug, my wife and I love the wines the PLCB let us get down here).


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## sour_grapes (Aug 28, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Paul, thanks for the recommendation. I've also been perusing a few sites including Lallemand's, and it seems RC212 and BDX are recommended.



Great! Would you mind sharing a link to the info you found? I have been very frustrated by the change in Lallemand's website. It used to be that you could look by grape varietal to see what yeasts were recommended. Now, as far as I know, you have to look by yeast to see what varietal it is recommended for. I would be curious, for my own purposes, to see what part of the website you got ANY pertinent info from!


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## ceeaton (Aug 29, 2015)

Actually, I think I lied, not on purpose. This is what I found, then as normal I went to the Lallamand site to confirm it:

uvaferm BDX YSEO yeast from Eaton’s Begerow Product Line is a specially selected dry active yeast, which is particularly beneficial for the fermentation of red wine must and red wine mash. The special advantages of the YSEO production process include improved final fermentation, reduced formation of sulphur compounds and to some extent reduced formation of volatile acid. uvaferm BDX YSEO yeast is very suitable for spicy, deep red wines (*Dornfelder*, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Merlot).

This was found in a technical paper located at:

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...r,+Cabernet+Sauvignon,+Cabernet+Franc,+Merlot).

Gotta click on the head to view the pdf, very informational.

Edit: and yes I agree, you have to go through each yeast to gather information verses the old table where it was all in one place.

Double edit: Think I'm having a JohnT type of night. Just started playing some Pink Floyd - Wish you were here...worried I am going to lapse into some of my old habits if I can find some, will start...stopping here, not a good place to go. No more wine for me.


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## ceeaton (Sep 4, 2015)

Just got an email from my grape supplier. Dornfelder seems to be stuck at 17 brix. From what I'm reading a final 18 brix number is not abnormal, depending on where it is grown. He's letting it go for a few more weeks since the weather has recently been quite hot and dry for the most part. After a few stray T-storms tonight it looks dry until the middle of next week.

Found this in a PSU article from 2011:

_Of the reds, only Pinot Noir is a classic international variety that is suitable for cool climates, and even then it is extremely fickle and challenging to make consistently high-quality wines. However, other red varieties such Zweigelt, Blaufränkisch (Lemberger) or even *Dornfelder* can make interesting if not charming wines—reds that say “*hug me*.”_

Looks like if I do a good job on this one I should get lot's of hugs! (I think the possibility of an entertaining label is very good with this one)


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## ceeaton (Sep 15, 2015)

Okay, picked up the grapes last Saturday afternoon. Brix did get up to 19.5, so added a little sugar to bring SG to 1.095. He had Kmeta'd after crush that morning, so I did the Lallzyme EX thing and pitched the yeast 12 hours later (BDX). Was going nicely Sunday noonish, at least at that point a cap was forming with some sizzling as background music. 

My question is, how long can I let this go before I press with my "new" Butt Bucket press? I was surprised that the SG was 1.022 tonight (@ 75*F). I'd love to make it to Friday late afternoon so I can pick up a new bucket with a spigot. The current one I have I use as the base for a lautertun, so I'm worried I won't be able to get it clean enough (grain has lots of nasty bacteria to spoil beer/wine that comes in contact with it).

BTW, I don't need the extra time to extract any more color from the skins since they look like little gray toupees (and the wine has an intense purple hue). Guess I could take a chance on the lautertun bucket after liberally soaking in some foamy Starsan?

Any suggestions or comments are welcome.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 16, 2015)

I press pretty close to 1.000. 

If you were at 1.022 last night, it'll probably slow down a bit and easily get you to Friday afternoon.


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## ceeaton (Sep 16, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> I press pretty close to 1.000.
> 
> If you were at 1.022 last night, it'll probably slow down a bit and easily get you to Friday afternoon.



Thanks Jim. I was hoping that was the case. I figured if a cap is still being formed there is enough positive CO2 pressure to blanket it in the Brute. I'm really concerned about getting nasties out of a bucket with a spigot that I've used for over 5 years as a lautering device. Rather buy a new one and label it "for winemaking only", just like I do for my fish tank buckets that I have to rebuy because they get used for cleaning the kitchen floor.


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## ibglowin (Sep 16, 2015)

As long as you have a cap and it smells clean, no off odors your generally pretty safe. If you have no cap, you need to press.


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## ceeaton (Sep 16, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> As long as you have a cap and it smells clean, no off odors your generally pretty safe. If you have no cap, you need to press.



I still have a cap, but it's 2 to 3 inches thick verses 8 to 10 the other day. So the fermentation train is slowing down. My SG is 1.004 adjusted (1.003 @ 72*F), so I guess I have no choice but to press tomorrow evening and hope the cap keeps up until then. Couldn't get to LHBS today since I had an activity bus pickup of the oldest after work and an after practice pickup of another, with wifey at algebra class, plus two meals for the late arrivals, ah, gotta love the new school year.

No off smells at this point. The sample I took for the SG reading smelled like fruity young wine to me, alcohol very prevalent.


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## ibglowin (Sep 16, 2015)

I should be just fine tomorrow to press.


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## ceeaton (Sep 17, 2015)

Still had a cap that fully reformed a minute after punching down this morning, so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine if I do the pressing tonight. Just have to wait for my daughter to call to be picked up after her away Field Hockey game. Hoping it is earlier in the evening verses later.

Picked up a "bottling bucket" that my drilled chilean bucket fit into nicely, plus a very large brewing bag (much larger than the paint strainer bags I've been using). Should be ready to go, now I just have to "hire" one of the kids to sit on the top bucket. I think I may be a little too heavy for it.

Had a sample last night. The finish is smooth enough that I'm worried MLF might make it taste flabby. So I purchased some new solution to test TA tonight and see where it stands.


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## ceeaton (Sep 17, 2015)

Finally got home. Started making dinner for my daughter and I. She texted that she'd be at the school in 15 minutes (lot's of warning) and I had to take the burgers off the grill and finish when I got back.

Did start to actually move wine into the bucket press around 7:30 pm. Was pretty much done (not cleaned up) by 8:30 pm. Had almost 6 gallons of free run wine. Was rather amazed at the quantity. Pressed out about 2 gallons more, I think (hard to tell, but the 7.9 gallon fermenter got really close to overflowing and I started to siphon to another carboy). 

Threw a couple of cases of beer bottles on top to start the press. Eventually used my upper body, once pretty much done closed and turned the spigot up and sat on the buckets to extract the rest. Pulled the bag out twice and loosened the pumice, then put three bungs under the bag and got a decent amount out.

Only mess up was not realizing where my level was and overflowed the lower bucket. Probably lost a quart or so. I'll have a stain on my garage floor that will make me chuckle every time I see it.

Almost forgot, the SG was down to 0.994, but I still had a nice cap on it before I started.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 18, 2015)

Nice work, Craig!


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## wineinmd (Sep 18, 2015)

Nicely done!

I'm pretty... ummm, creative when it comes to using what I have lying around to do the job, but even I'd hesitate to put two cases of beer bottles that high up on a surface that wasn't completely stable. Glad it worked out.


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## pgentile (Sep 18, 2015)

Craig that's great, I have to press my first time grapes tomorrow and wasn't sure how I was going to approach it without a press. I have three billion buckets lying around, now I know how I will do it. Time to get the drill out. Thanks


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## Kraffty (Sep 18, 2015)

So it seems the word "creative" is a derivative of "ceeaton". Your wine will have a great story behind it when you share a bottle and people ask about how it's made.
Mike


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## ceeaton (Sep 18, 2015)

pgentile said:


> Craig that's great, I have to press my first time grapes tomorrow and wasn't sure how I was going to approach it without a press. I have three billion buckets lying around, now I know how I will do it. Time to get the drill out. Thanks



I pretty much followed what this guy did:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vdrGCqkqoA[/ame]

I know there are a few threads on this forum that give good ideas too! Hope it goes well, I had a blast (I think a few Moosehead beers helped too).


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## ColemanM (Sep 18, 2015)

Great job on the pressing. I just got two buckets of these guys' Malbec. Might have to buy that spigot bucket!


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## ceeaton (Sep 18, 2015)

Got some new solution and the TA was 8.2 g/L, a little more believable with a 3.67 pH.

When I tasted today, the wine is much more what I expected, sharper on the tongue acidity wise. I'm sure mixing the pressed wine with the free run is what did that. I will go ahead with MLF once I get my Chardonel and test it's acidity. If high enough I will do an MLF on both.

Will rack off the inch or so of sediment on the bottom. Picked up another 3 gallon carboy so I can rack into what I expect will be a 5 & 3 gallon, we shall see.

Edit: fit perfectly in the 3 + 5 gallon carboys. Maybe a pint left over. When I racked there was at least and inch of trub in the bottom of both carboys. Sure I'll see a lot more than that. Hope to get 7 gallons when finished.


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## ceeaton (Sep 18, 2015)

ColemanM said:


> Great job on the pressing. I just got two buckets of these guys' Malbec. Might have to buy that spigot bucket!



Have you purchased buckets from them before? I've heard they make an excellent wine, but have never done it myself. Can't always believe what you see/read on the internet, would rather hear from someone I can trust who has used their product before.


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## ColemanM (Sep 19, 2015)

Their product is excellent. They even send all the accoutrements you would pay for at other places. Customer service is top notch. A little disappointed that I had already secured some petite sirah before I saw it on their website. May have to make two batches this year. Here's my Malbec sulfited and waiting for tomorrow's yeast. Sooooo excited!!! [emoji16]


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## ceeaton (Sep 19, 2015)

So what I see from their site, one bucket will make about 3 gallons of finished wine, is that correct?

I really like some of their offerings. Would probably order two buckets at once. Have to win the lottery or wait until the Spring tax return to order.


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## ColemanM (Sep 19, 2015)

If you have a press, about 3 1/2. What varietal would you be considering? I would suggest the Carneros merlot. 115 +30 shipping. I ordered that and a cab they had. Bottle three splits of merlot and blended the rest. I poured a bottle (5 months old no barrel) for my friend and he said he'd have to rethink drinking merlot. It stood on its own and for the price, would be excellent early drinking while the rest ages.

Oooooor, a cab, merlot, petite sirah blend!!! Just thinking.


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## ceeaton (Sep 20, 2015)

ColemanM said:


> .
> 
> Oooooor, a cab, merlot, petite sirah blend!!! Just thinking.



Now your talking!

All of them look interesting. I should probably hold off until I can get a real press. The buckets worked but what did I waste? Actually I didn't waste anything yet because the skins are frozen in the freezer at this point.


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## ceeaton (Sep 25, 2015)

Just took a small sample of the Dornfelder. Nice and dry. Flavor at this point is sharp enough that a secondary MLF will improve it IMHO. TA measured at .82 when fermentation was complete last week. 

Treading water until I get my Chardonel juice on Sunday and can test the TA and see if I may run that through MLF as well. If so the Dornfelder will have to hang out for a week or so until the Chardonel can ferment. Both carboys of the Dornfelder are topped to 1/2 inch of the top, so I should be fine.

Plan on oaking both since my Mom would like a Chardonnay that has been oaked. Have the Eclipse Sonoma Dry Creek Naked Chardonnay for my wife who prefers no oak.


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## ibglowin (Sep 26, 2015)

Let me know how that turns out for you. I have about 6 bottles left and will not be making that again. Had high hopes for this. Fermented and once clear I split it into 2 (3) gallon carboys and left one "naked" and the other added about 1.5oz of light toast Hungarian oak. It is still to this day harsh, tart like it has too much acid or something, just not balanced IMHO. I think I will go back and do another RJS EP Australian Chardonnay next time around. That one turned out very nice.



ceeaton said:


> Have the Eclipse Sonoma Dry Creek Naked Chardonnay for my wife who prefers no oak.


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## ceeaton (Sep 26, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Let me know how that turns out for you. I have about 6 bottles left and will not be making that again. Had high hopes for this. Fermented and once clear I split it into 2 (3) gallon carboys and left one "naked" and the other added about 1.5oz of light toast Hungarian oak. It is still to this day harsh, tart like it has too much acid or something, just not balanced IMHO.



Do you remember which yeast you used, and did you leave it on the fine lees for a while? Just curious. Too bad you can't take a kit through MLF. Did you ever test the pH and TA on it? I never do on my kits figuring you are paying for the manufacturer to have them balanced.


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## ibglowin (Sep 26, 2015)

Yes, I swapped for BA11 which is my go yeast for white (kit) wines and I have loved every wine I have used it with. I will check pH next time I open one. I probably won't check TA as it is not worth the time and effort.


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## ceeaton (Sep 26, 2015)

Well, started thinking about what yeast I had planned on using for this Chardonel I'm picking up tomorrow, and with my advanced age (will soon be 53) forgot what I had dreamed up. Went and looked at the yeast bank in the fridge and found D47 as the best possibility unless I use K1-1116V or EC-1118. Looks like D47 is compatible with MLF so guess I'm going with that one. Glad my job doesn't depend on my long term memory.

And yes, I did order and have the MLB. Small mental victory.


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## ceeaton (Sep 28, 2015)

Picked up the pressed juice yesterday afternoon. Jeff (owner) and his helpers had picked all morning and were pressing the whites and pumping into tanks to settle when I was there.

Brix was 24 with a pH 3.21 and TA 8.7 g/L. Added 1/2 gallon boiled cooled water to lower Brix and TA a bit. Thought it would raise the pH also but didn't. Could be that fermentation was just starting up when I took the sample this evening. SG down to 1.090 and TA 7.3 g/L. FermCalc shows it being about 13% ABV if it goes as dry as my wines usually do.

Have never used D47 yeast before. Rehydrated with GoFerm and just added 1/2 the Fermaid O this evening. Keeping at around 68*F.


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## ceeaton (Oct 1, 2015)

SG at 1.044 @ 72*F, added the other 1/2 portion of Fermaid O (4g). When the lid was removed a very distinct grapefuit aroma filled the basement.


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## ceeaton (Oct 6, 2015)

Racked the Chardonel tonight, SG .998. Picture doesn't do justice but there is almost a gray or greenish tinge to the opaque tan color, much darker than the Pinot Grigio from this Spring.

Pitched MLB (CH35) in this and the Dornfelder. Though not specifically for a red wine MoreWine says it can work successfully in a red. Description says it has a clean and fruity profile, so I don't think it will hurt the Dornfelder which is dry as the Sahara right now.

Took some samples to start a Chromatography tonight so I have a basis of where the acids are pre-MLF.


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## ceeaton (Oct 7, 2015)

Well, at least I know there is something for the MLB to eat! Lots 'o Malic.


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## ceeaton (Nov 16, 2015)

Been 40 days, did another test last night. Looks as though it has nearly finished (at least it has tasted that way for a few weeks). Found out what the small blue dots come from. I must have been thinking of how good these batches will taste and squirted some saliva at the sheet.


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## ceeaton (Dec 28, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Let me know how that turns out for you.



The Eclipse Dry Creek Chardonnay is my best kit to date at 2.75 months. Let's see how it ages and what it tastes like next year at this time.

If I'd grab a bottle, my wife would drop what she is doing and put an empty glass in my face until I poured some for her. Her new "favorite" wine. She's had a lot of those recently. Too bad she won't see that one again for a year.


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## ceeaton (Dec 28, 2015)

Dornfelder update. After having a Forza taste, my glass was empty and the Dornfelder screamed to be noticed. Poured a few ounces and this one too is starting to really taste nice. Has had a few spirals of Med + American oak for a few months. Was tasting a little herbaceous when young, but even though still young that taste is disappearing quickly. Very dry and very enjoyable at this point. Still needs until early spring before I consider bottling it. Don't know if I'll throw in some Tannin complex or Tannin Extra Riche, not really sure it needs it. Nice dark fruit in the aftertaste at this point.


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## grapeman (Dec 29, 2015)

Sounds like they are coming along nicely.


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## ceeaton (Jan 12, 2016)

Chardonel update. Had bottled a few from leftovers when I moved down to a 5 gallon carboy. I took one to a reunion rehash we had on Sunday, and it was very well received by the few who tried it. When I was pouring it I noticed a few flakes floating around and really didn't think much of it, since the batch was made at the end of September.

I think it was last Friday, I must have opened a bottle here at home. Put the leftovers in the fridge, and tonight I grabbed the bottle to try and figure out what was in it, and it was loaded with crystals in the bottom, a lot of crystals. So I guess I'm putting the carboy out in the garage for some time to cold stabilize. Never did that with the Pinot Grigio bucket from the Spring, but it looks like it is necessary unless I'm going to add a "diamond disclaimer" to any bottle of Chardonel I give away!


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## JohnT (Jan 13, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Never did that with the Pinot Grigio bucket from the Spring, but it looks like it is necessary unless I'm going to add a "diamond disclaimer" to any bottle of Chardonel I give away!


 
I'd be willing to certify those diamonds as conflict free....


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## ceeaton (Feb 26, 2016)

Dornfelder update. 

Had added some tannin complex a few weeks ago and racked. On sampling tonight still tastes much like the Merlot blend, but still has the green pepper notes dominating. Very young (only a little over 5 mos), but I am hoping the green pepper notes keep dying down as they have been and I think it will be a very good red wine if I give it some time. 

Hoping to buy a few more carboys so I can leave this one alone to age for at least a year total before bottling.


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## ceeaton (May 7, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Dornfelder update. After having a Forza taste, my glass was empty and the Dornfelder screamed to be noticed. Poured a few ounces and this one too is starting to really taste nice. Has had a few spirals of Med + American oak for a few months. Was tasting a little herbaceous when young, but even though still young that taste is disappearing quickly. Very dry and very enjoyable at this point. Still needs until early spring before I consider bottling it. Don't know if I'll throw in some Tannin complex or Tannin Extra Riche, not really sure it needs it. Nice dark fruit in the aftertaste at this point.



Really dark, really heavy, really bitter. Overall taste reminds me of a Chilean Malbec I had recently. Still some CO2 in the mix, so I have to get rid of that, but there is a definite black inky overall taste, with a bitter finish at this point. Was thinking of adding some Tannin Extra Riche to this one, and will probably do since it improved my Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec field blend from last Spring. Not terrible but not ready to bottle yet, for sure.

Need to rent some time in one of Boatboy's barrels on this one.

PS. The Chardonel is excellent, albiet light in body.


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## ceeaton (May 25, 2016)

I've decided at my last tasting (by the time of the previous post) I must have been imbibing a bit more than usual. I will agree that it is a very dark, inky tasting red wine, but the bitterness and the earlier green bell pepper flavor I was getting is a cop-out because of my limited tasting experience. I guess that is the best way I can describe the flavors I'm tasting, but I feel my descriptions are a bit simplistic. 

This is actually about 8 1/2 months old, and is a very good but tannic wine. I was drinking a very pedestrian Cab Sauv earlier in the evening, and a sample of this wine made my ears stand up (probably looked like Spock's) and taste buds salute. Has a nice nose of alcohol and red fruit, and does remind me of the Merlot blend I made last Spring.

It is fun to make and sample a wine you aren't familiar with. I chose this grape because it was available locally, and I like to support local vineyard owners who are practicing what I'd love to do at some point. The owner where I got this grape variety has been very helpful and has freely given information he knows to help me make a better wine. I'm hoping this grape is available again this fall so I can experiment some more.


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## ceeaton (Aug 13, 2016)

Racked the Dornfelder today, had some residual oak cubes I didn't remember adding, but very little sediment and tasted very good. Most of the raw green pepper flavor has subsided. The nose is like my Merlot blend, overall very dry, nice light oak, some fruitiness. Can't wait until fall when I bottle it.

Siphoned off a 375ml bottles worth to give to @jgmann67 when I visit him tomorrow. Will be interested in what he thinks of it since it is a variety that not too many have sampled dry (normally sold as off dry or semi-sweet).


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## ceeaton (Nov 6, 2016)

Dornfelder is almost 14 months old. Racked the 3 gallon carboy using the AIO and noticed a bit of CO2 still hanging around. Racked again, and upon tasting a sample don't notice any residual CO2 on the tongue. I can definitely say this nice dry bold, almost heavy red wine has absolutely no green bell pepper flavor. As I'd hoped it was just a product of a young Dornfelder wine, age does wonders (except for my body). 

Most likely will bottle the 3 gallon carboy tomorrow a.m. and bottle the 5 gallon (heavier oaked) version later this week. This grape is definitely on my list for planting in the back yard. If not used up as a straight varietal, it would pair well with any red grape variety, I'm thinking Cab Franc, since I should be able to grow that one too, and the batch I've done this Fall seems a bit weak in the color and body aspects, where this grape seems to excel.


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## ceeaton (Jul 29, 2017)

Okay, never got around to bottling the 5 gallon portion until today. I'll have to say that this wine has made, to me, an amazing transformation. Now it could be that I'm so new to this that I've never witnessed a wine aging, but this actually tastes like a real nice dry red wine. A year ago it was not all that enjoyable to drink, though when you make a wine your more willing to put up with a nasty wine because you made it, and don't want to judge your winemaking abilities too harshly. All the sideshow flavors have dissipated, and the dark red fruit is the only dominate flavor left. It has a nice mouth feel, but other than that, not real complex. Could have added even more oak, but since I haven't ever had this varietal as a dry wine, I didn't want to overdo it on my first try.

Hopefully my local connection can sell me another batch of these grapes to experiment with. I plan on giving him a bottle of this wine and the Chardonel I made at the same time. He usually back sweetens the Dornfelder that he sells, and he does sell out of them pretty quickly. I don't think he ages them much more than a year before bottling and I think if he was to sell it as a dry wine he'd have to age it a bit longer and sit it in a barrel for some time.

This grape is still one of my top contenders to end up in the back yard. We'll try a few more local ones before I make a final decision on which vines I'm going to purchase.


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## ceeaton (Nov 24, 2018)

Now that this wine is getting older, I'm trying to figure out what the dark fruit flavor it has actually is. This is a very good wine, I'd just like to be able to describe it in terms that others can understand. Saying that I can put it in a petri dish and it attracts fruit flies better than an Oktoberfest doesn't help people relate to how it tastes. Yes its fruity, but what dark fruit is it? The nose to me still has a brown sugar note to it, but the initial flavor still has a dark almost dank inky flavor to it. I guess I need to send a bottle to someone with better flavor receptors than I have...


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 25, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> I guess I need to send a bottle to someone with better flavor receptors than I have...



Don't know that I have better flavor receptors, but I just checked and I have a bottle of your Dornfelder downstairs. Small piece of tape on the back with "18A" written on it.


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## ceeaton (Nov 25, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Don't know that I have better flavor receptors, but I just checked and I have a bottle of your Dornfelder downstairs. Small piece of tape on the back with "18A" written on it.


Yup that's it. Make sure you post when you give it a try. It is definitely a different taste than say a Cab Sauv. Intriguing is the best way I can describe it. The "A" verses the "B" version were oaked differently. There are no "B"'s left for some reason. I'm pretty sure I gave you that bottle because you usually are pretty good at describing what you taste, good or bad.


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