# Glass vs Cork Closures The way of the future??



## Scooter68 (Aug 26, 2019)

Ok as a result of a lucky break at the recycling center I found 10 very nice bottles with Glass "Corks"

As a result of investigating their quality I realize now that I have stumbled onto what is a growing trend in the wine industry - Glass "Corks" re-usable (for when you don't finish off the wine the day you open it) and No risk of "Corking" your wine.

So far I'm still getting started getting details and I do know that they will be more expensive but having a closure that can be used over and over sounds pretty doggone good. 

One key question I have is the proper way to 'cork' the bottles the first time. Apparently equipment for inserting them is not common and many (most) wineries that use them simply do the process manually. Fine by me but I don't want to mess it up. 
Another benefit is that glass corked wine does NOT have to be stored on it's side, no need to keep the cork moist.

BUT having said this I am interested to see if anyone else has experience with these things. I've made contact with the US distributor and they do sell by the case. Customization is of course something they push for wineries to make their wines more distinctive but.... I believe I would be happy with their two standard choices in Black or Clear. 

So I ask - anyone tried these? 
Is anyone interested in perhaps a joint purchase of a case. (Qty per case varies based on size)
AND one potentially sticky detail - Size - There are different sizes base on you bottle size. THAT might be the undoing of this idea but still I would like to investigate further. I'll post a link to their info page and if I can I will try to link the pdf they sent to me.

https://vinoseal.us/

_"Note - obviously this all sounds a little odd but a number of articles on these thing speak highly of them their future in the industry. For home/hobbiests it sounds nice to not have to dispose of those corks OR to have to have a corking machine (Floor/tabletop/Hand) to get wine bottled up properly." And I have nothing to gain from any sale/purchases of these things."_


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## Vinobeau (Aug 27, 2019)

I have one bottle with a glass cork and I've used it about 3 or 4 times. I like it, but the used screw tops are cheaper!!


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## salcoco (Aug 27, 2019)

what kind of pricing per case and what quantity per case assume a nominal value. I believe we evaluated these closure about 6 year ago and compared them with Zorks a plastic closure. price drove us to the Zork. Zorks are no longer made in the USA and are no longer available. I imagine there is a equal to a #9cork size so I donot see that as a obstacle. I am open to considering this defendant on cost and quantity. there seems to be a question on reuse, does the seal break when the bottle is open and new one is required for a new bottle or does everything stay intact?


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## Scooter68 (Aug 27, 2019)

The ten I have from the recycling bin all look to be in great shape. That's the biggest draw for me. If I can clean and reuse them several times ( 3-5 ?) Then the cost equation changes completely other than than the initial outlay.


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## salcoco (Aug 27, 2019)

good point as I also recycle the bottles. did you get an idea on the cost? minimum qty?


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## Scooter68 (Aug 27, 2019)

Initial cost will likely be significantly higher. 

The 10 I got from the bin all seem in great shape but I'll get the magnifying glass out and inspect the. 

So it sounds like size = to a number 9 traditional cork. Length? And there are also thickness of the cap portion. (All that is in the PDF I attached.)


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## Scooter68 (Aug 27, 2019)

They are in Oregon so I'll see about calling a little later today. To get pricing shipping etc. The thicker top cap portion would be easier to pull replace but looks?? No more corkscrew 

No more corker 

Will update when I know more.


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## Donz (Aug 27, 2019)

I actually bought a case of wine that had these glass tops and they work great. I have been using these 12 bottles for my wine now. They work really well and look a hell of a lot better than screw caps.

I still cork most of my wine however.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 27, 2019)

Yeah giving away a bottle with a glass cork... But then no cork taint risk. 

Thanks for comments. Looking for more info from users. 

What about initial insert of the 'cork'. Just push? Using a rubber hammer risk of busting seems not cool. 

Have to redesign wine rack to store upright. (Not 'have to' but easier to build flat shelf design)


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## Brettanomyces (Aug 27, 2019)

What is the "sealing ring" made from on these?


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## bshef (Aug 27, 2019)

Glasshouse winery in Charlottesville, VA uses glass tops. The cost is not much more according to the owner but I think he is buying from a European company.


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## bshef (Aug 27, 2019)

Actually, Glasshouse uses the Vinoseal from the Czech Republic.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 27, 2019)

Brettanomyces said:


> What is the "sealing ring" made from on these?



Look at the pdf or link posted above. The seal is the key part and is supposed to be impervious to staining, tainting and certainly food safe, alcohol safe.

The Czech company (?) sells through a US company. Apparently from my reading Alcoa developed the product and sold rights to or uses a foreign company for production. Very interesting and of course there is some fussing a feuding going on to the point of Spain even making use of anything but Cork Corks illegal in many parts of the nation.
It looks like the future to me since the seal, in theory, is replaceable ? and the glass portion can be customized many different ways.

I'm game to use it, would eliminate "aged out" corks, slippery corks, cork taint. Size issues, corking machine etc. No more fussing about sanitation stored corks or before use.


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## Brettanomyces (Aug 27, 2019)

Scooter68 said:


> Look at the pdf or link posted above.



That's what I did first. Didn't see anything. Did I just miss the obvious?


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## stickman (Aug 27, 2019)

The seal is an EVA copolymer with trade name Elvax 550.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 27, 2019)

Brettanomyces said:


> That's what I did first. Didn't see anything. Did I just miss the obvious?




"The sealing ring (3) is made of Elvax by DuPont and contains no phthalates or allergens. " 

https://www.vinsupply.com/aspx/VinDocs/SellSheets/Brochure_Vinolok.pdf 


*Inserting the "Cork"* Too easy !!


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## Scooter68 (Aug 27, 2019)

What's that movie line: "I gotta get me some of that."


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## Scooter68 (Aug 31, 2019)

salcoco said:


> what kind of pricing per case and what quantity per case assume a nominal value. I believe we evaluated these closure about 6 year ago and compared them with Zorks a plastic closure. price drove us to the Zork. Zorks are no longer made in the USA and are no longer available. I imagine there is a equal to a #9cork size so I donot see that as a obstacle. I am open to considering this defendant on cost and quantity. there seems to be a question on reuse, does the seal break when the bottle is open and new one is required for a new bottle or does everything stay intact?




Ok I did receive a reply on pricing today. While the per piece price isn't unreasonable, the Minimum order is looks a bit high for me (Minimum 2 cases)
I probably should have asked about the price difference between clear and black top. I'll try to contact them after the long weekend but nonetheless here's what I have: 

Below is pricing for black vinoseals in the sizes you had requested. This pricing is in US dollars and is valid for 30 days. Please let us know if you would like an official quote to order, or if you have any questions.


*Item*: VS: VinoSeal 17.5mm Black Low Top
*Quantity*: 480 pieces per case / MOQ 2 case
*Price*: $0.53 per piece FOB Czech Republic
+*Shipping*
+*Customs* *Fees*

*Item*: VS: VinoSeal 18.2mm Black Low Top
*Quantity*: 480 pieces per case / MOQ 2 cases
*Price*: $0.53 per piece FOB Czech Republic
+*Shipping*
+*Customs* *Fees*

*Item*: VS: VinoSeal 18.5mm Black Low Top (STOCK)
*Quantity*: 480 pieces per case / MOQ 2 cases
*Price*: $0.59 per piece FOB Salem OR
+*Shipping*


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## Brettanomyces (Aug 31, 2019)

Are they reusable? If so, it might be worthwhile to explore a group buy.


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## balatonwine (Aug 31, 2019)

This is actually old technology, repurposed for another industry and audience that may not know about it. The "future" bit is of course just hype. Used in beer bottles in Europe probably since beer was put into bottles. I can still buy them today (with beer), but not as common as other closure types:




The metal band keeps the cork in place for beer, which is under pressure, but also helps prevent from loosing the cork. So, yes, I am sure they work just fine also for wine (as long as the wine is perfectly still, due to lacking the metal holder -- apply standard 7-10 day upright test after bottling to make sure). And for home wine makers, they, over time, will probably eventually pay for themselves.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 31, 2019)

Brettanomyces said:


> Are they reusable? If so, it might be worthwhile to explore a group buy.



Based on comments by others who have some of the vinoseal closures, they have successfully re-used them multiple times. For sales local laws might prohibit re-use but for home hobbiest wine making use I see no reason not to do so - As long as the seal is in tact. The ones I recovered from the recycling center all appear to be in great shape. I imagine if someone used a table knife to remove the 'cork' that they could damage it beyond use.

As far as a group buy I would be willing to join in. As a ball park number
$.53 x 480 (qty per case) = 254.40
254.40 x 2 (minimum case quantity = 508.80
+ Shipping (A WAG = $50.00 - 100.00 ???)
+ customs fees (? - is there a tariff on these or a standard rate ?)

A lot depends on shipping and customs fees especially if they have to come from Czech. (one reason if they have the clear ones in stock in Oregon, I'd rather go that way.)
I imagine the price difference for those from Czech vs Oregon, USA ($28.80) is not the full amount of shipping as they shipping large quantities at a time.

I could use certainly 240 (4 buyers) with re-use and an average of 100=120 bottles on the shelf for me that would work out
Of course I could stretch and go for 320 too, that would probably last me a long long time at the rate I'm making wine.

By the way I did see someone selling a package of 6 on Ebay and asking $14.99 for those. Someone else was selling used ones for $1.00 each. They clearly think very highly of what they have.


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## salcoco (Aug 31, 2019)

quote is fob Czech republic plus custom fees could double the price to rich for me. thanks for your efforts


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## Scooter68 (Aug 31, 2019)

Yup - FOB Czech would be pretty much a killer- I understand. I'll check on the clear top vs black and see if those are stocked in the US. Shipping could still be tough.

I'll update once I get that info. The response I got initially said they stock the clear and black in the US but apparently that isn't for all sizes. That's the other issue - the entire order has to be one size. Personally it would be a stretch for me at one case - two by myself definitely a no go. If I was a eBay seller I could break even selling smaller lots but; that's not something I'm into.
Now if we could get a wine supply house to supply... and break those case quantities in half.... that might work but...that's pipe dreaming.


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## stickman (Aug 31, 2019)

One interesting detail I noticed is the tight specification on the diameter of the Vinoseal closures. When I look at wine bottle neck diameter specifications for the American market, I see typically 18.5mm plus or minus .5mm, which means the neck could be as small as 18mm or as large as 19mm depending on the production lot. I've collected bottles throughout the years from both the foreign and domestic markets and never thought much about the possible neck diameter variation, with a cork it is less of an issue, but with the Vinoseal it might make a difference in performance.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 31, 2019)

I tried the ones I have from the Cotes des Rose from Gérard Bertrand bottles and you are correct. There were some (The cheaper wine brands mainly I noticed) that the closure would not fit at all. Some fit very snugly but did fit and some were not terribly firm. I am comparing that to the way they fit in their original bottles and the original bottle fit lands between very snug to moderately snug - but now I need to go back and check one closure on all 10 of my matching bottles they came from. By my micrometer they are 18.2 if I don't snug down the micrometer. (Reasonable since you want some give in the material to seal.)

Again once I get the samples I will try them on the various brand bottle that I have from the recycling center to see if there is a trend. I do have a lot of bottles that I haven't stripped of their labels yet so I can try to get a list of those the fit and those that don't or fit too loose. I pick up no less than five of any given brand (5 equaling in gallon of wine of course) So as you mention, I can check the over all fit.

By the way I wonder if those bottles that measure smaller are in fact not truly round. As you say with a cork that doesn't matter - it will compress and deform within reason and provide a good seal.

It's not looking real promising but I'm not ready to give up totally - yet. Will depend on the fit testing and the availability of the right size from stateside supplies. Clearly shipping from the Czech Republic is probably going to be way too steep.

The companies that use these seem very happy by their reports.


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## Brettanomyces (Aug 31, 2019)

Is the price quoted from the Czech company for export? As in, was the VAT already taken out, or would that further reduce the price?


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## Scooter68 (Aug 31, 2019)

Vat is not listed. Prices were quoted by US based part of the company. I understand that VAT charges are not applied in most cases to products shipped out of country - however FOB... suggests it could be considered as having been purchased in country for taxation purposes. If that is the situation ... it's then becoming more and more unlikely as a viable option.
The products on hand stateside are $0.06 more each so I assume ... that includes markup for shipping the product to the US from the Czech Republic.


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## Brettanomyces (Sep 1, 2019)

Got it. Well, it was worth exploring the option.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 1, 2019)

Not over.... yet. 
If they have the clear thin top 18.2 mm size in stock Stateside there is still hope. I think that will turn out to be the best fit but I'll know more when I receive the sample package.
And things may change in a few months or a year or two.


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## balatonwine (Sep 2, 2019)

just curious --- did anyone bother to contact Vinolok directly about direct shipping and prices:

https://vinolok.cz/en/contact/

Funny thing is, since I am living in Hungary, I can by these rather easily. If it were not for the punishing 27% VAT the Hungarian government imposes on all retail sales that are not VAT exempt I would be happy to redirect and export them to the USA. But I can't, so I won't.

But, since some were wondering, yes, all exports from the EU and ECA are also VAT exempt for tax exempt business transactions. But then shipping and tariffs are your problem. Traffics don't kick in till a monetary amount is reached. So fewer may be cheaper. But if you are not tariff exempt, maybe buy sooner than later before Donald slaps on new EU tariffs.... Just saying....


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## Scooter68 (Sep 2, 2019)

balatonwine said:


> just curious --- did anyone bother to contact Vinolok directly about direct shipping and prices:
> 
> https://vinolok.cz/en/contact/
> 
> ...




UNFAIR not right that you can buy them locally. (Joking !!!) 

To answer first... they sell through their stateside affiliate for all US sales. 
And secondly - yes the world of VAT's and tariffs are messy and getting more messy every day. Trade battles do that and hopefully some new arrangements will be made to smooth things out. 

As I mentioned I'll see what possible and reasonable for now and then see if it's worth the effort or just wait. I have to beleive that these things are going to dominate before long. Especially if the environmental groups keep attacking every sort of business they find offensive. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes...


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## Scooter68 (Sep 4, 2019)

Awaiting prices on the clear closures and info about what they have in stateside warehouse.
Here's the sample set they sent. Clearly they can make an impression even on just an 'ordinary' wine bottle.


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## stickman (Sep 4, 2019)

Those closures do look nice.

Just for reference, I measured the opening of some bottles I have here. Three cases of brand new Bordeaux bottles from Waterloo Container made in USA, each case had 9 bottles that measured 18.40mm, 1 bottle 18.50mm, and two at 18.35mm. I also checked a case of the older random bottles I've collected over the years, obviously these were highly variable, they averaged close to 18.20mm, but there were two at 18.02, one at 17.50mm, and two at 18.50mm. The 17.5mm was a Bordeaux bottle and it was difficult to tell that it was any different by just looking.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 4, 2019)

I haven't measured any of my bottles yet. Since I now have the reference closures in the various sizes. I guess it's on me to test the fit. Even if turns out to be a 'no-go' for now... it's worth knowing the requirements for the future. I have to admit that 'cut crystal' look in the center of the smaller box REALLY looks classy.

One thing the closure contacts told me in their email is that THEY also sell bottles... Not surprising and in a way smart - control as many of the variables as you can and that better insures a happy customer.

By the way, I did buy a brand new bottle of the Cotes des Roses wine and the second time I opened it I got a splash of wine on me.... makes me think that those thicker/taller tops have an advantage with more to grip when opening. Closing is a breeze snug but not hard to do. (for the record)


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## Scooter68 (Sep 4, 2019)

I've done a quick check on some of the bottles I see a lot at the recycling center here. The *18.5 *seems to be the best fit for the majority of the ones I tried. Stickman that seems about right with what you found I think. I'll do more measurements tomorrow.
Think what I'll do is check out the ones I commonly see that I think are sold 'everywhere' take a photo of the label and provide those as thumbnails along with a list of brands.

Also just got pricing on Clear glass tops and they are a bit more but they are available stateside (Salem Oregon) Anyone in that area interested? Any who... here is the latest prices I received:

*Item*: VS: VinoSeal 18.2mm Clear Low Top
*Quantity*: 480 pieces per case MOQ 2 cases
*Price*: $0.60 per piece *FOB Salem OR*


*Item*: VS: VinoSeal 18.5mm Clear Low Top
*Quantity*: 480 pieces per case MOQ 2 cases 
*Price*: $0.60 per piece *FOB Salem OR*


*Item*: VS: VinoSeal 18.5mm Clear Hight Top
*Quantity*: 420 pieces per case MOQ 2 cases
*Price*: $0.65 per piece FOB Salem OR

+Shipping


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## hitchiker (Sep 4, 2019)

hey scooter


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## Greg Teegarden (Sep 5, 2019)

I would be interested in going in on a group buy.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 8, 2019)

So I invested in a digital micrometer ( not high end but good enough) and checked the measurements of a sample of the bottles I seen to find commonly at my local recycling center. Brands like Berringer, Yellow Tail, Kendall-Jackson, H3, Apothic, Cloisonne, and Stella Rosa. The most common size varies around 18.5mm except for Stella Rosa that is at 17.5mm. (Oh and there is definitely variation in the measurement if I take it at 3 different points on a bottle opening. Some not much others as much as .2 mm. )
Then I took the sample tops and used both the ones marked as 18.5 thin and thick top and one of the customized tops that measured at 18.5. the fit just seemed soft, as in not giving me that warm-fuzzy feeling. At least not to the point of my investing $500.00+ and hoping enough others want to join in. 

Guess I'll be staying with cork closures until I hit the lottery, or there is a real break through on pricing. 

Those commented thank you. The glass closures are some serious eye candy but unless you have a supply of bottles that fit really 'right' I'm not going to take the plunge.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 25, 2019)

Hope? I found out I have a relative who travels a lot and among the places they go is .....Czech Republic and they know about that town where these closures are made. Maybe .... they might be able to pick up a small quantity to get me started. Have to wait and see.


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## Chuck E (Sep 26, 2019)

Greg Teegarden said:


> I would be interested in going in on a group buy.



I would be interested in a group buy. We saw these in Italy, and they are elegant.


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## Scooter68 (Sep 28, 2019)

Well that would be 3 on a buy of 960 or 320 each. They all have to be the same size. 18.5 is the one that fits most bottles I samples. The thin top seems to blend in the best with bottles shapes. But the. Thick top is easiest remove.
Thin top run .$60 each plus shipping.thick or tall top run $.65 each


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## Chuck E (Sep 29, 2019)

Scooter68 said:


> Well that would be 3 on a buy of 960 or 320 each. They all have to be the same size. 18.5 is the one that fits most bottles I samples. The thin top seems to blend in the best with bottles shapes. But the. Thick top is easiest remove.
> Thin top run .$60 each plus shipping.thick or tall top run $.65 each



Are you measuring the inside diameter of the bottles?


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## Scooter68 (Oct 1, 2019)

I've measured the ID of a variety of the bottles I commonly use for my wine. There is some variation but I believe that the variation is within the tolerance that an 18.5mm closure should work. Of course my decision a few weeks ago was to hold of purchasing for now. In part because I'm not willing to tie up my funds without feeling comfortable that enough other people will come through and join in and follow-through on such a purchase. 960 closures would keep me supplied well beyond my life expectancy at my current use rate. ESPECIALLY since I am interested because these can easily be cleaned and re-used several times - based on others experiences. For me roughly 120-200 would meet my needs for quite some time. I do plan on continuing to use corks for my wine as well. Especially batches that I anticipate will mostly be given away to folks.


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## iridium (Oct 2, 2019)

Quick question, do you have an address for the Salem Oregon location? It would be curious to see if someone who lived in the area could get them and maybe save on shipping, even though I realize that it looks like this will have wait.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 2, 2019)

Well here's the fun part. Their North American "Address" is actually in British Columbia. They have a warehouse evidently in Salem Oregon. Sure that there is some logistical, customs and import process reasons behind all that. 
Here is a link to their North American site.

http://www.thinkuniversal.com/contact-us/


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## Breet33 (Nov 13, 2022)

Whiskey bottle factory offer 18.5 glass material closures which is easy to clean and sealed tightly. The price is a little expensive than normal corks but you can order less quantity.


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## Scooter68 (Nov 22, 2022)

If that matches your bottles it might be a great way to go.


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