# Dragon Blood: Triple Berry Skeeter Pee



## dangerdave

I think I have neglected to add the Dragon Blood Recipe the recipe section, so here it is. PM me if you have any questions.








Here's the newest version (v3.0): _Please read recipe completely before beginning!_


*"DRAGON BLOOD"*
_*Silver Award winner at the 39th Annual Cellarmasters Amateur Winemaking Competition*_

*FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE*

*Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:* 

Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order:
1 bottle (48 oz) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _if you want to recude the acid level use less._
Water to about five gallons
20 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG of around 1.075 after filling to 6 gallons below*): _use more/less sugar for high/lower desired final ABV. Stir sugar until _completely_ desolved._
1 tsp. tannin (stir)
3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well
Test SG (looking for a SG around 1.075) _Note: The natural sugars from the fruit will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!_
6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--a_vailable in most grocery store freezer sections_), frozen then thawed, in a nylon fine mesh bag (tied shut), placed in primary (add any extra juice from the fruit as well): _Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme.__ May also toss fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and racking._
Cover primary
Place brew belt: _Keep temp in 70F-80F range._
Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...

Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (starter, per yeast directions): _Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains may also work well._
Stir Primary Vigorously!

Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
Check temp
Check specific gravity
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket._
Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must._
Replace fruit pack
Cover primary

Step 4: When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: _Discard fruit._
Note: _Some wine makers suggest three consecutive days with SG below 1.000 to insure the wine is finished fermenting. I encourage this if you are not in a hurry to finish your batch. In addition, leaving the wine undisturbed (don't stir) for this time, will allow the sediment to settle out and facilitate more rapid clearing._
Rack the wine to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy, leaving the gross lees (the stuff in the bottom) undisturbed.
Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
Degas very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough!_
Add Sparkolloid* (or other cleaing agent): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered for about 5-10 minutes. Add hot mixture to carboy._
Allow to clear undistrubed for no less than 1 week

Step 5: When wine is clear:
Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 4-5 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely disolved). This will give a SG of around 1.010: _Add more or less sugar to taste. Remember! The sugars will blend with the berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!_
Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: _This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks._

Step 6: When wine is completely clear:
Filter if desired
Bottle in clear bottles (because it's beautiful)
Note: _Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!_


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## vernsgal

This sounds like a good quick wine. Being one who loves med-heavy bodied,dry wine though ,how would this fair? If it is light bodied , how much sugar would you recommend to keep it dry?


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## WVMountaineerJack

DD, you put your corks in upside down! Get a book. Cracked


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## Dend78

CrackedCork said:


> DD, you put your corks in upside down! Get a book. Cracked



 i think you are looking at the wrong part of the pic CC


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## dangerdave

vernsgal said:


> This sounds like a good quick wine. Being one who loves med-heavy bodied,dry wine though ,how would this fair? If it is light bodied , how much sugar would you recommend to keep it dry?


 
Well, versgal, that's kinda like asking how to make your bicycle ride like a Harley. LOL! This recipe is designed to be a light fruity easy-drinker.

However, any recipe can be modified. Add extra sugar in the primary for more finishing ABV. Someone suggested using honey and making it into a Dragon Mead. Toss in a bag of raisins for body. Don't back sweeten if you like it dry. It's really not bad dry. My wife (whom is my biggest fan abd consumer) likes her wines sweet, so that's how I make it.

Experimentation is encouraged!


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## UBB

This is JMO but this wine isn't drinkable dry. Between the bite of the lemon and no residual sugar I didn't enjoy it at all, but different strokes for different folks.


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## vernsgal

Lol, that was a newbie mistake. New to the site and never saw the post for "skeeter pee". Understanding now- I don't believe I will make it dry, will certainly add it to my "to do list"


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## Dend78

its worth it when you get a mixture you like


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## dangerdave

UBB said:


> This is JMO but this wine isn't drinkable dry. Between the bite of the lemon and no residual sugar I didn't enjoy it at all, but different strokes for different folks.


 
Correction. The Dragonette (without the lemon juice) was not bad dry.


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## WineMonkey

Am I reading this right? I don't add any k-meta at the start of my fermentation? And I don't have any yeast energizer... Will I be ok without, or should I hold off on starting this batch until I get some?


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## dralarms

CrackedCork said:


> DD, you put your corks in upside down! Get a book. Cracked



Is there a top and bottom to corks?


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## dangerdave

WineMonkey said:


> Am I reading this right? I don't add any k-meta at the start of my fermentation? And I don't have any yeast energizer... Will I be ok without, or should I hold off on starting this batch until I get some?


 
No sulphite in the primary, correct. The high acid content of the lemon juice will adequately protect the must. That is another reason for the energizer. I'm not sure if it will get going without it. It's up to you. Try it or wait until you get some.


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## dangerdave

dralarms said:


> Is there a top and bottom to corks?


 
CC is just messing with me.


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## dralarms

dangerdave said:


> CC is just messing with me.



OK, had me worried.


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## WineMonkey

dangerdave said:


> No sulphite in the primary, correct. The high acid content of the lemon juice will adequately protect the must. That is another reason for the energizer. I'm not sure if it will get going without it. It's up to you. Try it or wait until you get some.



Thanks! ... I went ahead and pitched the yeast without the energizer, more out of curiosity than laziness... but a little bit out of laziness too. I may be back asking for more help if nothing happens within the next day or two.


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## WineMonkey

Day number 3 and it's bubbling along nicely, no energizer added... Here's hoping it doesn't stall out halfway through.


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## DirtyDawg10

Good luck with it!


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## dangerdave

WineMonkey said:


> Day number 3 and it's bubbling along nicely, no energizer added... Here's hoping it doesn't stall out halfway through.


 
Awesome! I am down to using just one tsp of energizer with 3 tsp of nutrient. Glad it got going. Good luck!


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## cheesehead

Dave, i have started the dragon blood skeeter pee on 0ct 25 and i am into clearing now for 6 days. my question is exactly how long did you clear you batch b4 bottling? Mine looks like it did on day 1 of clearing, seems to have stopped. i used Super Kleer, does that matter, wine store guy said it was a better product and would hasten the process but he has never cleared a batch as quick as you did and recommends atleast 1 month clearing . i read and re-read you articles on this so i thought i would give it a shot. looks like i'm not as lucky as you got. have you done anymore batches that quick? and if it appears my clearing has ceased is there anything i can do to kick start it again, thanx for any input, Loddie aka Cheesehead


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## dangerdave

Loddie!

I always use sparkolloid---if you haven't noticed. I leave mine to clear for a week. Usually, it is nice and clear by then. The sparkolloid works very quickly on well degassed wine. The 15 day batch was a test, and the fastest batch I have ever done. Now, I leave it a little longer, just to be sure there is no sediment left.

I haven't tried Super Kleer, so I can not advise you on that. If it says it will take a month, then it will probably take that long. If the wine is not degassed thoroughly, that can delay clearing. Anything else you do besides wait will stir the sediment up again.

If I were you, I'd give the Super Kleer it's prescribed time to work, and not give up on it until then. Get some sparkolloid (it's cheap!) and try it on your next batch. That stuff works great on fruit wines!

Dave


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## cheesehead

thanx for the quick reply Dave, i will wait until it clears as always b4 bottling. i degassed it until there was no gas after drill stirring, the recommendation of 1 month came from the store owner. have you ever had a batch that just seemed like it was stuck in the cloudy state? if so , what did you do? I do have about 1" of sediment on the bottom, but that was there 1 hr after the super kleer was added. I will wait for now as i am getting ready for deer hunting this week and next, i'll check it when i get back and report any results. Also, i see you cut back on the yeast energizer to 1 tsp and 3 tsp nutrient, is that a permanent change to your recipe? thanx again, Loddie


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## dangerdave

cheesehead said:


> Also, i see you cut back on the yeast energizer to 1 tsp and 3 tsp nutrient, is that a permanent change to your recipe? thanx again, Loddie


 
Now, I'm running a bit slow, Loddie. 

My goal has been to (mostly) use only what is necessary in making my wines the way I do. Lon's original Skeeter Pee recipe calls for _two_ applications of nutrient and energizer (1tsp and 3tsp, respectively), but he also uses three 32oz bottles of Real Lemon juice. When I reduced the lemon juice in the Dragon Blood recipe, I also dropped the second application of nutrient/energizer. I have made many batches since then , and it ferments with gusto! I currently use just one bottle of juice in the primary and no more. That is the way I like it.


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## spree

I'm getting ready to make this. I'm curious. How long did you let it age in the bottle before drinking (if any)?


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## DirtyDawg10

You don't have to let it age at all however it does get better the longer it is in the bottle.


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## spree

DirtyDawg10 said:


> You don't have to let it age at all however it does get better the longer it is in the bottle.


 
Excellent!


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## Dend78

Dragons Blood is what gets you through those long aging wines


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## vernsgal

I'm having trouble getting the ferment going. It's been 48 hours since I pitched the yeast and there has been no action. Temp is a steady 77 F. When I added the yeast I didn't have any yeast energizer ( none of the wine suppliers here have even heard of it) I have since gotten my hands on some. Should I add it now?, make a starter?, do both???...


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## vernsgal

okay, jumped the gun on that. Got up this morning and it is doing its thing


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## cohenhouse77

Dave, I know you said on either this thread or one of it's sister thread that you only had 1 bottle of lemon now. Is that 1 bottle of lemon total, or do you still at the second bottle halfway through fermentation?


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## cheesehead

hi Cohenhouse77, if i'm not mistaken, its your preference as to 1 or 2 bottles total at the beginning of the process, some have cut back on the lemon juice due to acicity / reflux issues. again a personal preference, hope this helps


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## dangerdave

cohenhouse77 said:


> Dave, I know you said on either this thread or one of it's sister thread that you only had 1 bottle of lemon now. Is that 1 bottle of lemon total, or do you still at the second bottle halfway through fermentation?


 

Been busy this holiday season! But I'm back home and mking more wine!

As cheesehead said, I add only one bottle (48oz) in the primary fermenter at the beginning and no more later. That's how we like it at my house.


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## Throwback

Hello Everybody!

Well this my first time posting usually I'm just reading postings to gather as much information to try to understand the whole wine process making. 

I came across dragon blood receipe from (dangerdave) looks awesome had to try it. While I followed the directions to a Tee. Once everything was mixed in fermenationg bucket (Start Gravity 1.090) and racked when S.G. 0.996. So last night I added 1/4 tsp Potassium Metabisulfite (stir for good 30 minutes by hand, used vaccum pump also to try to degass) then added 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir again by hand and used vaccum pump). total time spent trying to degas the dragon blood 2 hrs but did not add any fining agent do to know it was not fully degassed. This morning the airlock was bubbling in the glass carboy. So I'm not sure if its still fermenating or degassing on it own.

I've added two pictures to show what happening.


Any guidance/information/knowledge would be greatful.


Started this project 11-26-12 racked 12-2-12.


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## cheesehead

Throwback, from what i can tell you, it took me 1-1/2 hours with a drill mounted stir wand and i'll bet i still didnt degass 100% but very close, looks like you may have a bit more degassing to do as evident of the amount of foam present in the carboy. question for ya, is that must in the airlock intentional or has it risen up through the airlock? i either use plain h20 or h2o with a little sanitizing solution in mine so as to not breed any bacteria. As for my first batch of dragonsblood, i am still allowing it to clear, started mine 10-26ish (i'm at work and dont have the date in front of me), added k-meta & sorbate after drill stirring 98% of the gas out of the must, then added super kleer fining agent, i did have a bit of gas releasing thru the airlock but stopped within hours- ive racked 2x since to draw off the lees from the sediment ,as i want absolutley clear wine to bottle , i still need to back sweeten ,clear, then bottle, it actually appears that you have some fermentation going on if its perculating that much. give it a day or 2 to see if it ceases other wise i'd get to degassing some more and then add fining agents( most swear by 100% degas & others not so much), hope that helps, if not there some pretty experienced fellas ( and ladies) that wouldnt hesitate to put me in my place if i'm wrong. good luck!


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## Putterrr

CHEESEHEAD
not an answer to the problem asked but to you wondering about the wine in the airlock. It is probably from foam being pushed into the bubbler and settling back to wine. The fact that there is nothing in the other side would indicate that the big push up has settled back a bit. Some refer to this as a volcano and it can cause quite a mess as the foam makes bubbles out the top of the airlock. The bubbles break and small amounts of wine splatter everywhere. One way to lesson the mess is to put the carboy in a big sink or container and put a small container upside down over the airlock. That way the wine splatter will just fall straight down and doesn't coat everything in a 5 ft radius. much easier to clean up. Of course, not getting into this situation in the first place is the best solution
cheers


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## Throwback

Cheesehead,

Thanks for replying back good insight you given, I did some more degassing last night, and will continue to degass tonight again. Too answer your question about the airlock and if its must. I had orginally put clean H2O with little sanitizing solution in the airlock the night before and that is what I had woken up too yesterday morning. I had replaced the airlock with fresh clean H2O with sanitizing solution. 

So far this morning its still clean the airlock and perculating still, but not as much as the night before. 

I will continue with degassing again later today when I get home from work. Good to know other have spent a good amount of time degassing wine. 

I will keep you guys updated.


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## dangerdave

Throwback, looks like you have secondary fermentation going on. I have never seen gas alone produce that much active bubbling. I would let it sit for a few more days undisturbed. Keep the air lock clean if any wine gets into it from the foam. Wait for it to settle down, or you are wasting your time with your degassing. Give it three days with a stable SG, then proceed.

Don't sweat it! It's going to be awesome!


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## PrincessVintah

Dangerdave, please help. Is there an alternative yeast you could recommend instead of the EC-1118? My local HBS doesn't have that one. Also, I'm looking to start a batch of this lovely creation this week, but it's December in Utah and a bit chilly. My house is usually around 67 degrees and I don't have a brew belt. Any ideas what I can do to keep her warm? Would a heat lamp work?

Any help is appreciated! Mwah!


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## dangerdave

I have used several different yeast varieties, but the Red Star Premiere Cuvee is a good alternative to the Lavin EC-1118. A heat lamp might work, but you will likely have to do some adjusting to get the temp right in the fermenter. By all means, please be fire safe! I am a firefighter by trade, and I don't want to see anyone burn down their home trying to keep their must warm. Please be careful!


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## Throwback

dangerdave said:


> Throwback, looks like you have secondary fermentation going on. I have never seen gas alone produce that much active bubbling. I would let it sit for a few more days undisturbed. Keep the air lock clean if any wine gets into it from the foam. Wait for it to settle down, or you are wasting your time with your degassing. Give it three days with a stable SG, then proceed.
> 
> Don't sweat it! It's going to be awesome!




Thanks for the insight Dangerdave! I will let it sit some more before trying to degas any more. I'll be on top off it to make sure the airlock is clean.

So here another question for you, Once SG is stable and I begin trying to degassing agian do I have to Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate again? Or do I just leave it the way it is and just do the degassing?

I'm so looking for to trying the finished product, looks and sounds super yummy!


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## dangerdave

Oh, my! Good question. I'd leave it. The sorbate is still in there, and this stuff will go so quickly, you won't need the extra sulphite. Let it finish fermenting. Check SG daily and record so you'll know when it's stable. Degas after you have three days of stable readings. Then add your clearing agent and watch it clear. Later, you can back sweeten to taste and bottle.

Patience with the drooling! It will be worth the wait.


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## PrincessVintah

Thanks, Danger! Heading to the LHBS this afternoon to pick up the few items I need, and plan to get started tomorrow morning with a good friend of mine.

A couple of changes that I will be making for my own batch:

I am using fruit that my friend bought fresh at Winco a few months ago and rinsed and froze herself. She got a killer deal and bought a ton.

I will be adding a tad bit of Dragon's Blood herb resin. I won't use more than perhaps 2 tsp. for the whole 6 gal. batch, as I don't want to change the flavor too much. But I want the spiritual/metaphysical/magical properties of the herb infused into the wine. Plus it should enhance the red color. I have done my interweb research, and consulted an herbologist and and internist, so I am reassured that it is safe for ingestion. My bigger concern is the taste of the wine. Don't want to mess it up. I'll probably add it to the fruit in the mesh bag.

Well.........wish me luck!


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## Dend78

just a thought it may be better to add it in after fermentation has completed, then when back sweetening i would say pull a sample and bench test as to what is needed to not kill the flavor but get desired effect


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## Geronimo

PrincessVintah said:


> I will be adding a tad bit of Dragon's Blood herb resin. I have done my interweb research, and consulted an herbologist and and internist, so I am reassured that it is safe for ingestion.



I've never heard of anyone consuming that stuff. It's usually just an incense.


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## dangerdave

PrincessVintah said:


> I will be adding a tad bit of Dragon's Blood herb resin. I won't use more than perhaps 2 tsp. for the whole 6 gal. batch, as I don't want to change the flavor too much. But I want the spiritual/metaphysical/magical properties of the herb infused into the wine. Plus it should enhance the red color. I have done my interweb research, and consulted an herbologist and and internist, so I am reassured that it is safe for ingestion. My bigger concern is the taste of the wine. Don't want to mess it up. I'll probably add it to the fruit in the mesh bag.
> 
> Well.........wish me luck!


 
That is a very interesting idea! I'm intrigued! Keep us postsed.


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## PrincessVintah

My first attempt at Dragon's Blood. The dragon's blood resin did not have much, if any, taste. So I added it in with the berries in the mesh bag. Excited to have a full primary fermenter again!


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## PrincessVintah

Geronimo said:


> I've never heard of anyone consuming that stuff. It's usually just an incense.



In doing my research I found that it is used in making essential oils, incense, bath salts, etc. But it's also taken internally for a myriad of uses: headaches, as a coagulant (stops bleeding), chest pains, menstrual problems, impotence, and many others.

I wouldn't be putting it in my wine if I wasn't absolutely sure it was okay. As I stated above, I consulted an herbologist and an internist just to be sure.

But I do have plenty left over that I will probably add to some incense, and I'm gonna buy some fractionated coconut oil to make some essential oil with it, as well.


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## Dend78

only issues i see is it may do something to the yeast causing off flavors or fermentation may remove some or all of the medicinal purpose from it. looks good though


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## PrincessVintah

Well, it's been racked to the secondary. The filmy stuff on top has started to break up and sink. Not sure if I degassed it well enough. I'll rack it again on Friday (the 21st) and degass it again before back sweetening. Any more suggestions or tips?


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## dangerdave

Was it dry when you racked it, PV? What was the SG? I'm just curious, because it looks different than any of mine ever has. What's all that foamy looking stuff on top? Is it still bubbling in the airlock?


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## PrincessVintah

The SG was .992 when we racked it. Not sure what the floaties were, kinda like floating yeast, even though we tried to leave all that in the primary. Really weird. I've never had that with any of the wine kits I've done. But we've racked it again, and there's still a few floaties, but not near as much as the photo above. Tons of sediment left behind after the second racking. We used a mesh bag for the fruit, so I didn't think there'd be that much sediment. We degassed it again after the second racking, very thoroughly this time. No pfft in the hydrometer tube at all when we shook up a sample. It's still pretty cloudy, and our color is a much deeper red than your pics. Probably from the Dragon's Blood resin we added. Gonna give it another week to settle and clear before back racking once more and back sweetening.

If it doesn't clear up would you suggest adding another dose of sparkaloid?


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## dangerdave

Could the Dragon's Blood resin have that much of an effect? I recall you saying you didn't add much. Odd, that.

As for clearing: Pectin haze is the number one cause of cloudy wine, as long as it's thoroughly degassed---which you've said it is. If you think it's not clearing quickly enough, rack it off any sediment, hit it with a couple tsp of pectic enzyme and stir well! That usually does the trick.


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## PrincessVintah

Really not sure whether or not the deeper color is from the resin or not, although that was one effect we were hoping for. It could just be our mix of fruits. We didn't use the triple berry blend, but rather used individual packages of frozen raspberries, blueberries, and blackberries that my friend picked up at Winco for a killer price. I'm sure that alone could affect the color.

The floaties are all settled to the bottom now, but it's still not that lovely crystal clear color. I'll rack it again on Friday, and then back sweeten at that point. Would you suggest adding the pectic enzyme then? Before or after adding the sugar?

I sincerely hope these questions aren't a nuisance. But I gotta admit I'm learning a ton through this trial and error process. Thanks for all of your help and willingness to share your experience with me, and all of us here. You da bestest!

Oh, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! To all of you!


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## dangerdave

You are very welcome. No nuisance at all. We all want to see you succeed!

I'd get it clear before adding any sugar. That's what I do with the DB, and it has worked well.

I love trying different stuff. You are right, it does teach you a lot. Wonderful things can happen when you experiment. The Dragon Blood (Easy Peesy) Recipe was just an experimentation/variation of Lon's original Skeeter Pee. I reduced it to the simplest form of comprehension I could devise, so that even noob-beginners could whip up a batch.

Good luck with your version! What are you going to call it? Did you mention that yet?


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## suecasa

*1st batch started!*

I've only made a couple "kits" before ... and both of them called for fermentation in primary and secondary ... then stabilizing ... from how i understand your directions i let it ferment completely in primary .. then stabilize when moving to secondary??

also ... my SG was only 1.070 ... i'm not looking for high alcohol content .. cuz expect it to go down easy!! how low of a SG is safe and will still ferment


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## dangerdave

suecasa said:


> I've only made a couple "kits" before ... and both of them called for fermentation in primary and secondary ... then stabilizing ... from how i understand your directions i let it ferment completely in primary .. then stabilize when moving to secondary??
> 
> also ... my SG was only 1.070 ... i'm not looking for high alcohol content .. cuz expect it to go down easy!! how low of a SG is safe and will still ferment


 
Yes, Sue. Just leave it in the primary until it goes dry (SG of 1.000 or less). Then, you'll rack it to a carboy, stabilize, degas, and hit it with a dose of Sparkolloid. If all goes accordingly, you'll have a batch of clear wine about a week later.

Your SG will be fine. Don't worry. You're gonna love this stuff!


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## Pumpkinman

PrincessVintah, how many lb of fruit did you use, more fruit would make a deeper color as well. as far as the foam on top...the two batches I've made never did that, I am curious.


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## suecasa

another question ... thanks in advance ... 

I had a must saved from the coastal red ... added it last night ... the bubbles have started mildly ... as i'm reading though i wonder if the yeast may be about burnt out ... i didnt rack that batch until the SG had dropped to 0.990 ...i used all the nutrient & such as listed in the recipe ... should i let it go and see what happens .. or go ahead and add some yeast today?


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## cheesehead

just filled 33 bottles and of course sampled 1 1/2 more of the dragons blood and it turned out excellent!!! took a bit longer but thats ok , the wife and i were on vacation in Jamaica and that just contributed to the clearing process. Had no sediment in the carboy at all. now to let the batch age a bit and onto a Pomegranate Zin 6.5 gals fermenting and starting a 5 gal batch of cherry wine that my son wants to learn to make, Happy Holidays to all and will check back often! CHEERS!!!!!! p.s i think i got more buzzed on the D.B at 10.5% ABV than i did the whole time in jamaica, LOL


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## dangerdave

suecasa said:


> another question ... thanks in advance ...
> 
> I had a must saved from the coastal red ... added it last night ... the bubbles have started mildly ... as i'm reading though i wonder if the yeast may be about burnt out ... i didnt rack that batch until the SG had dropped to 0.990 ...i used all the nutrient & such as listed in the recipe ... should i let it go and see what happens .. or go ahead and add some yeast today?


 
I know I'm a couple of days slow, but how's it going now, Sue? 

The yeast should take off again, if it started bubbling already. Just wondering how it's doing after a few days. Do you think it needs "help"?


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## PrincessVintah

Pumpkinman said:


> PrincessVintah, how many lb of fruit did you use, more fruit would make a deeper color as well. as far as the foam on top...the two batches I've made never did that, I am curious.



Used 6 lb. of fruit, pretty much two lbs each of blueberries, blackberries, and raspberries.

Still not sure what caused the foamy stuff, but it's clearing up pretty nicely after another week of sitting, not adding anything. Will rack one last time and back sweeten probably tomorrow.

Thinking I'll call this "La sangre del dragón". Goes well with our label: Bodega de Vida Baja.


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## cohenhouse77

It probably depends on the yeast that you use. I used Montrachet on one and Cotes de Blanc on the other and the Montrachet foamed way more than the other. I had foam coming out of the primary. You are in good shape.


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## suecasa

*great .. i think*

The SG is down to 1.014 this afternoon ... Still fizzing away .. I did end up adding a packet of yeast just to make sure ... It never made the foam that it looks like is typical ... assuming that's fine

It does seem to have "lost" much of the berry flavor that was present in the beginning ... is that a factor with the conversion to alcohol? Will it come back with some back sweetening. Is there a way to add a bit back at the end?
I'ts good as is .. but was really looking for the berry to go with the lemon!

thanks for the help again!!



dangerdave said:


> I know I'm a couple of days slow, but how's it going now, Sue?
> 
> The yeast should take off again, if it started bubbling already. Just wondering how it's doing after a few days. Do you think it needs "help"?


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## Boatboy24

Sue, 

That berry flavor will come roaring back once the wine gets a little more time and you back sweeten.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Agreed, if you used Daves recipe, after you back sweeten, you will be in Dragon blood heaven!!


----------



## cheesehead

Has anyone had a batch NOT start fermenting after 3-4 days, I have a basic Vintners cherry wine from concentrate in the primary- 5 gals, used Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast packet, although the recipe called for me to wait upto 24hours before adding the yeast i did so early when the must was at prime temp of 70 degrees and i have no action at all. i have a packet of Premier Cuvee' laying here, should i add more yeast or nutrient to kick start it? can i mix yeasts? thanx, cheeshead


----------



## DirtyDawg10

I've only done two batches so far but have not had any issues with fermentation starting. What is the temp of the must now? If it is chilly it will take longer. Have you taken any hydrometer readings yet?


----------



## Danml

cheesehead said:


> Has anyone had a batch NOT start fermenting after 3-4 days, I have a basic Vintners cherry wine from concentrate in the primary- 5 gals, used Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast packet, although the recipe called for me to wait upto 24hours before adding the yeast i did so early when the must was at prime temp of 70 degrees and i have no action at all. i have a packet of Premier Cuvee' laying here, should i add more yeast or nutrient to kick start it? can i mix yeasts? thanx, cheeshead


 

I would try to get the temp up into the mid to upper 70's first. i had one that would not start until I got the temp up.


----------



## Pumpkinman

I agree 100%, raise the temps to 70-75° and more important, take a hydrometer reading, I assume that you took an initial SG reading, take another to see if it is fermenting at all.


----------



## cheesehead

thanx guys , i was kinda surprised that the recipe called for waiting to add until 70 degrees normally i am in th 72-75 range , the initial S.G. was 1.082 i do see some very minor activity now but will try to raise the temp a bit, the SG hasnt dropped much if at all 1.082 to 1.081 dont have a heating band so im using a electeic heating pad for now and will report results soon


----------



## Pumpkinman

Cheesehead, I've fermented at 85° with no problems, the main issue is that at those temps, you can easily lose a lot of the fruity esters.


----------



## dangerdave

Like the others said, Sue. Go with the recipe, and you'll end up with a good wine at the end. It should be dry pretty soon!


----------



## cheesehead

all is well, the temp raising obviously did the trick, already racked to carboy and away we go. another question , i have seen where people have saved the sediment or portions of the must from the fermenter, how much to save , and how to store it , also what benefits does this present when adding to a new batch?


----------



## suecasa

was 0'996 a couple days ago so next steps done and now we wait . 

random question ... why do you rack then add chemicals and degas...the 6 gallons fills the carbon so no room to stir . is it possible to do the degas in primary the rack instead of trying to use 2 carboys?


----------



## cohenhouse77

> random question ... why do you rack then add chemicals and degas...the 6 gallons fills the carbon so no room to stir . is it possible to do the degas in primary the rack instead of trying to use 2 carboys?



I could be wrong, but I always rack before disturbing the wine because every day the wine is settling out debris and lees. By disturbing it before racking, I am just picking back up all the stuff I have patiently been watching drop to the bottom. There is probably a more scientific answer, but that is my humble common sense answer for the day.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Agreed 100%! If you degass before racking off the lees/sediment, you will stir it all back up and have to wait even longer for it to settle again.


----------



## suecasa

that was the reason I was thinking with the kits I've done . but with skeeter you are stirring every day anyway .


----------



## cohenhouse77

I stop stirring once I go below 1.03 SG.


----------



## dangerdave

Thanks for the great questions, Sue! I always let mine sit a few days in primary after it is dry, just to let the stuff settle in the bottom. First racking is always to leave the gross sediments behind. I shall add this point to the recipe.

On a side note, when I first started making wine, I got my hands on two 6.5 gallon carboys. I was a noob, and had no idea that the extra space would make them useless for most batches fermented in a 23 liter bucket. However, these extra large carboys have been _invaluable_ for additions to recently racked six gallon batches and for degassing said wines. They are my utility 'boys. I use them all the time.


----------



## Longtrain

I think I'm going to give this a try, I may have missed it, but what SG do you back sweeten to? 

Thanks, Tony


----------



## jrupjr

Looking to start a batch of the DB but as a newbie I am kind of lost at ordering some of the chems. 

You mention:
1 tsp. tannin (stir)
3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)

When I search FVW to order them, there are so many different kinds. Can you help out on which to order? Thanks!

John


----------



## rigger197

dangerdave 
For a six gallon batch. Do I need 6 pounds of raspberry 6 pounds of strawberries and 6 pounds of blueberries ?
For the dragon blood


----------



## Pumpkinman

*jrupjr:*
On the FVW website search the following:
Tannin - Part # 6300A
Yeast Nutrient - 7357A - I Use Fermaid K exclusively, but this will work
Yeast Energizer - 6365A
Pectic Enzyme - 6382

*Longtrain *- back Sweeten to taste, but i'd start with 1.010, it is a dry to semi sweet wine at that 

*rigger197* - I don't mean to answer for Dave, but no, we usually buy the frozen bags of berry blend, 6 lbs total combined, if you add more, the fruit flavor will be a bit more pronounced.


----------



## ttimmer

Dave - I just wanted to let you know that this recipe is my first attempt at winemaking. So far, so good. The must is beautiful, smells amazing and will be leaving the primary fermenter any day now. My husband wants me to try an apple/cinnamon wine next; but I will be back to revise the recipe into a tropical blend very soon down the road. Thanks for your excellent instructions.
Tammy


----------



## dangerdave

Thanks, Tom! You may definately step in at any time.

*@ttimmer*: You are very welcome. As this recipe took shape, many people asked questions, which added to the detailed instructions. My goal was to provide enough specification so that even a beginner could follow along and make Dragon Blood, but I couldn't have done it alone. Welcome aboard, we've got a great group of folks, here!


----------



## dangerdave

*Added a few extra notes to recipe regarding sediment in the primary and SG readings in Step 4.*

Wow! The picture of the bottled Dragon Blood really gets ya, don't it! 
How about a full carboy, ready to bottle! This was the first batch I ever made, more than a year ago. Somehow, I knew it would be a hit!


----------



## suecasa

Oh dear. All the lees got racked and stabilized. I expect clearing will take longer now. Other than that am I in trouble?


----------



## Throwback

Dangerdave, 

its been a few weeks, but I followed your directions on the dragonblood and let me tell you everything worked out great. I backsweeten the dragonblood and let it seat for a few weeks. This stuff is great and let me tell you the dragon blood never had a chance to be bottled. =) 

I will have to make some more this week hopefully. 

Thansk for all the help on dragonblood. 

~Throwback


----------



## dangerdave

suecasa said:


> Oh dear. All the lees got racked and stabilized. I expect clearing will take longer now. Other than that am I in trouble?


 
I'm very sorry, Sue. I should have covered that point in the recipe before now. I think you'll be fine. Keep us post on how long it takes to clear. Are you using Sparkolloid, bentonite, both, or something else as cleaing agent?


----------



## dangerdave

Throwback said:


> Dangerdave,
> 
> its been a few weeks, but I followed your directions on the dragonblood and let me tell you everything worked out great. I backsweeten the dragonblood and let it seat for a few weeks. This stuff is great and let me tell you the dragon blood never had a chance to be bottled. =)
> 
> I will have to make some more this week hopefully.
> 
> Thansk for all the help on dragonblood.
> 
> ~Throwback


 
Excellent! I get a warm, fuzzy feeling every time someone succeeds with this recipe---or maybe that's the wine.


----------



## suecasa

*thanks dd*

I used isinglas . got some with starter chemicals.. there is a lot if sediment but still quite cloudy the weird thing is when I move it or tap the side there are tiny bubbles rising to the top...lots of them but they aren't enough to make the airlock "burp " .. SG has dropped another .002 to 994. need lifesaving advice I think!!

(Yes I degassed thoroughly)


----------



## suecasa

now i'm reading more (dumb ... read then do) .. and see isinglas was the exact wrong thing to use with sediment still in there! it does have a kind of astringent flavor now ... is there any rescue? or just lesson learned and start over??


----------



## PrincessVintah

Here's my label for my Dragon's Blood Wine. Thanks Dangerdave for the recipe. I finally racked again and back sweetened on Saturday (Jan. 5). I only added 4 c. sugar. I liked the slight tartness of the lemon, and after reading other comments about back sweetening the Dragon's Blood, I thought it was sweet enough. I'm trusting that the sweetness of the berries will come out more soon.

I have to say that after all the stress of the foamies on top of my wine in the secondary, I am quite proud of this one. This is my first wine made from scratch, so I was a little nervous- especially when things didn't go exactly the way I thought they would. But thanks to DangerDave for the amazing recipe and assistance in troubleshooting my issues. And thanks to everyone else who chimed in with their words of wisdom.

I will be bottling this baby on Thursday or Friday. Not quite a week after back sweetening, I know. But these are the days I have the time to do it, and the help of my good friend who's helping me make this wine. I'll post pics of the finished product when we're done!


----------



## dangerdave

suecasa said:


> now i'm reading more (dumb ... read then do) .. and see isinglas was the exact wrong thing to use with sediment still in there! it does have a kind of astringent flavor now ... is there any rescue? or just lesson learned and start over??


 
I honestly have to say, I really don't know, Sue. I have never given up on a batch. 

If you have the carboy to spare, just let it sit and see how it turns out. I'm sorry to hear it's giving you fits. 

Maybe someone else can give some much-needed advice on this one.


----------



## suecasa

i do have a carboy i can spare for a bit ... should i try to add anything else? since it was "fizzing" again do i need to add more sorbate or sulfate? (not sure what does what) ... i'm thinking about trying one of the "natural" clearers like egg white or gelatin .. thoughts??

leave it to me to break the unbreakable!! i will persist though if not with this batch there will be another!!


----------



## ttimmer

For those of you who have made Dragon's Blood... I will be moving the wine into the secondary tonight. I sneaked a little taste this morning out of pure curiosity. Wow it really tastes strong right now. Please tell me it will taste more like wine and less like hard liquor once it sits for a while and is backsweetened. Holy cow!!

SG was 1.080 before adding fruit. .992 yesterday and .990 this morning


----------



## Pumpkinman

Tammy,
You have to remember, that nice sweet must that we all start with changes once we add yeast and it starts to ferment, the yeast turns all of that sugar goodness into alcohol and produces CO2.
when the Dragon Blood (or any fruit wine for that matter) is fermented to dry, it will be much stronger, and obviously have an alcohol content that is a direct reflection of the starting SG.
Your Dragon Blood should be in the neighborhood of 11.53% ABV based upon the Starting and finished SG.
You will need to rack it to the secondary, back sweeten to your taste, most like it back sweetened to 1.010, we like it a bit sweeter around the 1.020 range.
Just remember, don't sweeten too much more than that, within a week or two, the sugar and berries will "marry" and you will be very much pleasantly surprised.

Keep this in mind when making the *Apple wine*, that will be much more on the tart and hot side when fermented to dry, it also takes a bit longer to age, I have a batch of hard cider/Apple wine that has been aging for a few months and still is a bit "hot", in a few months I'll bottle, and let it sit for another 6 months.

I have a batch of *Tropical Daze* Dave's Blue Macaw variant that has fermented to dry, I'll be racking, back sweetening and clarifying today, I've altered the recipe based upon the fruit that I used, it is real nice, but again, the must right now is very tart due to the lack of sugar.


----------



## wineforfun

Tom,
I also wrote this in my Tropical DB thread. Did you just substitute the pineapple juice for lemon juice and then stick to all the other chemicals, ie: acid blend, pectic, tannin, etc.? Also, did you use the same yeast as DB?
Thanks.


----------



## Pumpkinman

I substituted 2 cans of Pineapple Juice for the Lemon Juice, I used a mix of sugar and honey since I was just about out of honey.
Here is my variation based on Dave's recipe:

*Tropical Daze *

*Ingredients*

•	1 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (Rea Lemon in the green bottle)
•	Water to about six gallons
•	20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.090)
•	8 cups Honey use to bring SG up to desired amount
•	2 – 48 oz Cans Dole Pineapple Juice
•	1 tsp. tannin 
•	4 tsp. yeast nutrient 
•	2 tsp. yeast energizer 
•	3 Tsp Acid Blend 
•	3 tsp. pectin enzyme 
•	12 lbs. of Mixed Fruit Blend (Pineapple/ Peach/Mango/Strawberry/Grape) I put the fruit in a nylon drawstring bag or two if necessary, this will make for a much cleaner brew. I take a spring clamp and hold the drawstring in place so I don’t have to fish for them later.
•	Yeast, 1 gram of yeast per gallon of Must. Lalvin 71B-1122 & ICV D47 blend,( you can use any of the following as well. DV10, QA23 - (Saccharomyces cerevisiae bayanus
•	Go Ferm – 1.25 Gram per each gram of yeast used
•	½ -1 Oak Infusion spiral stick
•	2 oz untoasted oak.
•	20 oz. Raisins, chopped & re-hydrated
•	Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite 
•	Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate 
•	Sparkolloid 
•	Sugar or honey for Back sweetening - 4 cups

*Preparation:* _Add to Fermenting bucket_

•	20 Cups of Sugar 
•	2 gallons of hot water, stir until completely dissolved
•	Add Honey, take SG reading, add until you reach 1.090
•	2 - 48oz Cans of Dole Pineapple Juice 
•	3 Tbl acid blend
•	1 tsp. tannin ( I prefer Tannin riche, it imparts a nice sweetness to wine)
•	4 tsp. yeast nutrient 
•	2 tsp. yeast energizer 
•	3 tsp. pectin enzyme
•	Stir well to incorporate all of the dry ingredients.
•	12 lbs of Mixed Fruit Blend (Pineapple/ Peach/Mango/Strawberry/Grape), thawed. I put the fruit in a nylon drawstring bag or two if necessary; this will make for a much cleaner brew. I take a spring clamp and hold the drawstring in place so I don’t have to fish for them later.
•	½ - 1 Oak Infusion Stick
•	2 oz untoasted Oak – helps reduce any vegetal flavors – I add in nylon drawstring bag or grain steeping bag.
•	20 oz chopped and re-hydrated raisins placed in Nylon drawstring bag
•	Add the remaining water up to the 6 -6.5 gallon mark, taking into consideration the volume of the mesh bags.
•	Take an SG reading, you want the must to be between 1.075 – 1.090

I let this sit overnight, with a heat mat wrapped around the fermenter, a brew belt would do too, just until it reaches 85°. 

This yeast can handle 80-85° with no problems.

*The following Day:
*
I take my selected yeast, 1 gram per gallon of must and rehydrate as follows:
I heat a half cup of water to 120° and add 7.5 grams of Goferm (1.25 g per gram of yeast used), add to the water and mix it in. When the water cools to 110-115° add the yeast, just sprinkle on top and let it rehydrate, let sit for 15 minutes or until you see it starting to foam (reproduce), then add ¼ cup of the must. This will give it a source of food to continue to reproduce and multiply, and it will get the yeast acclimated to the temp of the must. 
Let sit for 5 mins and add to the primary.

Stir Primary Vigorously!

*Every Day:*

Check temp
Check specific gravity
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: Temporarily place in sanitized bowl bucket.
Stir primary to introduce a little oxygen into must, the yeast will need it.
Replace fruit pack
Cover primary
When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: Discard fruit.
Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
Degas very thoroughly: I cannot emphasize this enough!
Add Sparkolloid* as per package. Add hot mixture to carboy.
Allow to clear undisturbed for about 1 week

*When wine is clear:*

Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy

Back sweeten, if you are going to use sugar, I would make a simple syrup, 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water, heated just shy of a boil, you will see it turn to a syrup, make sure you stir constantly, you will probably need double that amount. 
Back sweeten to your own taste

Remember! The sugars will blend with the fruit flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. 
Do not over-sweeten!
Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks.


----------



## ttimmer

Tom,
You have confirmed that I am on the right track. I figured apple wine would need much more time to age, hence the reason I started with DB and will probably try your variation after the apple. Figured I would have the tropical ready to drink before the apple. My primary will be empty tonight, so it is time to go grocery shopping!


----------



## wineforfun

Awesome Tom, thanks.

Hopefully my last questions.
I noticed you still used lemon juice, is that correct? Because you stated that you substituted pineapple for lemon.
Could I just stick with the D47 yeast like regular DB or do you recommend that I use a blend?
Also, do I need the GoFerm or what exactly is it/ does it do?
Thanks for all the help.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Nah, I didn't use Lemon Juice, this was my poor attempt to copy from Dave's recipe. I used the Pineapple juice instead.
A blend isn't necessary, the D47 is a great yeast as well, I added it as a blend because I used some honey and it is listed for meads.
Go Ferm is a yeast re-hydration nutrient, it helps the yeast to reproduce. Is it necessary?..No, can it help, yes. You will be fine without it, I would purchase it to have in the future.

*I do want to state for the record, that this is based on Dave's recipe, a major "Thanks" goes out to Dave for nudging me in this direction.*


----------



## dangerdave

Tom is a wealth of info, ain't he! 
Now, let me specify. I no longer use lemon juice in my Blue Macaw, since I am not interested in imparting _any_ lemon flavor to that wine. I have substituted 3 tsp (for six gallons) of acid blend instead. The wine comes out very smooth and silky on the tongue, with very little acidity. My wife, Johnna, loves it that way. My current batch of BM---ready to rack from the primary tomorrow---is further modified using bananas. I'm excited to see how it turns out.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Thanks Dave! Your recipe's have made for a lot of very happy wine drinkers..lol!!!


----------



## wineforfun

Awesome guys, thanks for the help. I love how you can just keep tweaking this recipe. I am going to start a 2 gal. batch and think I will use 3lb. of tropical fruit and 16oz of lime juice. I am hoping the lime juice doesn't have the acidity/bitterness of the lemon juice. I will keep everyone posted.

Dave,
On another note, I am going to try your Dragon Blood "melomel". I like the idea of using honey. I am contemplating throwing a vanilla bean in there for something different.

I feel like the mad scientist.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Wineforfun, try the Melomel, it is unreal!!! Tweak it to your taste, you will appreciate at it even more!!!
Keep us posted!


----------



## ShepherdQ

Dave, everyone,

I'm planning on making Dragon Blood for my wife, and this may be heresy, but since she prefers lower alcohol drinks I was thinking of making it with a final ABV of 5.5-6.5. I'll need a starting SG of 1.04 to achieve this, which is quite low, I know; does anyone perceive any problems with this? Will it not keep as long, for example?

Another question: what do you think would happen if I doubled up on the berry mix (10-12 lbs)? Would the loss of volume be too significant, or would it turn out too sweet after back sweetening...? Just curious, I've never made it but would like to try for a really strong berry flavour.

Thanks!


----------



## Pumpkinman

I would start at 1.050 in order to get to 6.5%. As long as you adjust and stabilize the wine it should last as long as any other wine, but trust me, this doesn't sit around a long time, once you taste it, it will be consumed!

I don't think it would turn out too sweet if you doubled up the fruit, once the yeast ferments the sugar, it won't be sweet until you back sweeten, but the fruit will be pronounced, just what you are looking for. One thing I might do, just because your fermenting time will most likely be less than if started at 1.090, I would squeeze the berries to mash them up a bit and put them in a nylon drawstring bag, this way they will be broken down a bit and the yeast will have contact with more surface area.

You can always get a can of Vinters Harvest Fruit wine base and add it to the must, this would boost the berry flavor and make a berry bomb!


----------



## cheesehead

question for the masses, after racking a 5gal. batch of straight Vitners harvest cherry wine from concentrate i have lost about 3/4 gal due to the loose sediment. i know to top off with similar juice or wine, However do you think its wise to store the Lees( hope thats right) in a gal jug and then freeze it hoping it doesnt break or will a very cold refrigerator suffice, not sure how long storage would be, also,I dont know how much to add to the next batch of whatever is next.any thoughts? 
thanx, Loddie, Go Packers!!!!!


----------



## cheesehead

Dave,regarding the Blue Macaw, would ya be willing to part with that recipe? sounds tropical, we just returned from Jamaica and are already planning to go back, i think with a tropical tasting wine in her hands, the wife might go for a room upgrade this time, LOL


----------



## ShepherdQ

Pumpkinman said:


> As long as you adjust and stabilize the wine it should last as long as any other wine, but trust me, this doesn't sit around a long time, once you taste it, it will be consumed!



That's kinda what I figured! 

Thanks Pumpkinman, appreciate the help! Can't wait to get this going.


----------



## cheesehead

Pumpkinman, where can i find the melomel recipe?


----------



## Pumpkinman

Cheesehead, I just posted in the mead section, I believe this is the direct link: Berry Bliss Melomel


----------



## cheesehead

Thanx Pumpkinman !!!!!


----------



## wineforfun

Just bottled up a 2gal. batch of Blackberry DB. I sweetened 1gal. a little more than the other so curious to see if there is any difference in the two. I will definitely be making future DB versions with only 1 lemon juice or another type as the two bottle version is way too acidy for my liking. Also going to open a bottle of DB I have had bottled for a month now. I will see if it has changed since bottling. 
Going to start a batch of Tom/Dave's Tropical Daze/Blue Macaw variation and a batch of Dave's DB melomel this weekend.


----------



## zrhanson

So this may be a dumb question, but is the tannin absolutely necessary? I live very far away from ANYTHING and after getting back from the HBS to buy supplies and getting about halfway through starting my batch of Dragonblood, I realized that I had forgotten it. Should I go now and get some before continuing? Would it be fine if I waited until Monday, picked up some on my way home from work and added it in then? Or do I not even necessarily need it? Any help would be awesome! Thanks!


----------



## Pumpkinman

nope, not absolutely necessary, but it does add to the final product!


----------



## Longtrain

Huh, I thought I had some EC-1118 in the frig, but only Montrachet and Cotes de Blanc. I just mixed a one gallon batch of DB to give it a try. Will either of these yeasts work?

Thanks for any help...Tony


----------



## dangerdave

Tony, The Montrachet works great with fruit wines. I have a batch of DB finishing it's primary with the Montrachet. Fermentation went as planned. Go for it!


----------



## Longtrain

Dave:

Thanks, this stuff smells great and I haven't even pitched the yeast yet...

Tony


----------



## cohenhouse77

Longtrain said:


> Dave:
> 
> Thanks, this stuff smells great and I haven't even pitched the yeast yet...
> 
> Tony



It is hard not to drink at this stage. My kids all have had a small glass and it is their favorite stage of my wine making next to the bottling stage.


----------



## ShawnDTurner

*Lalvin ICV-D47 (C�tes-du-Rh�ne) : This is a low-foaming quick fermenter that settles well and forms compact lees at the end of fermentation, although when left on the lees, ripe spicy aromas with tropical and citrus notes develop. This strain tolerates fermentation temperatures ranging from 50� to 86� F. and enhances mouth feel due to complex carbohydrates and high polysaccharide production. Malolactic fermentation proceeds well in wine made with ICV-D47. This strain is recommended for making wines from white varieties such as Chardonnay and for ros� style wines. It is ideal for persimmon, peach, nectarine, paw-paw, and mango, as well as aromatic wines such as rose petal, elderflower, anise and woodruff. It is also an excellent choice for producing mead if supplemented with yeast nutrients, especially usable nitrogen. Its alcohol ceiling is 14%.*


----------



## ShawnDTurner

This yeast is awesome, I am using this for my SANG VRAI.


----------



## rigger197

Pumpkinman said:


> I substituted 2 cans of Pineapple Juice for the Lemon Juice, I used a mix of sugar and honey since I was just about out of honey.
> Here is my variation based on Dave's recipe:
> 
> *Tropical Daze *
> 
> *Ingredients*
> 
> •	1 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (Rea Lemon in the green bottle)
> •	Water to about six gallons
> •	20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.090)
> •	8 cups Honey use to bring SG up to desired amount
> •	2 – 48 oz Cans Dole Pineapple Juice
> •	1 tsp. tannin
> •	4 tsp. yeast nutrient
> •	2 tsp. yeast energizer
> •	3 Tsp Acid Blend
> •	3 tsp. pectin enzyme
> •	12 lbs. of Mixed Fruit Blend (Pineapple/ Peach/Mango/Strawberry/Grape) I put the fruit in a nylon drawstring bag or two if necessary, this will make for a much cleaner brew. I take a spring clamp and hold the drawstring in place so I don’t have to fish for them later.
> •	Yeast, 1 gram of yeast per gallon of Must. Lalvin 71B-1122 & ICV D47 blend,( you can use any of the following as well. DV10, QA23 - (Saccharomyces cerevisiae bayanus
> •	Go Ferm – 1.25 Gram per each gram of yeast used
> •	½ -1 Oak Infusion spiral stick
> •	2 oz untoasted oak.
> •	20 oz. Raisins, chopped & re-hydrated
> •	Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite
> •	Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate
> •	Sparkolloid
> •	Sugar or honey for Back sweetening - 4 cups
> 
> *Preparation:* _Add to Fermenting bucket_
> 
> •	20 Cups of Sugar
> •	2 gallons of hot water, stir until completely dissolved
> •	Add Honey, take SG reading, add until you reach 1.090
> •	2 - 48oz Cans of Dole Pineapple Juice
> •	3 Tbl acid blend
> •	1 tsp. tannin ( I prefer Tannin riche, it imparts a nice sweetness to wine)
> •	4 tsp. yeast nutrient
> •	2 tsp. yeast energizer
> •	3 tsp. pectin enzyme
> •	Stir well to incorporate all of the dry ingredients.
> •	12 lbs of Mixed Fruit Blend (Pineapple/ Peach/Mango/Strawberry/Grape), thawed. I put the fruit in a nylon drawstring bag or two if necessary; this will make for a much cleaner brew. I take a spring clamp and hold the drawstring in place so I don’t have to fish for them later.
> •	½ - 1 Oak Infusion Stick
> •	2 oz untoasted Oak – helps reduce any vegetal flavors – I add in nylon drawstring bag or grain steeping bag.
> •	20 oz chopped and re-hydrated raisins placed in Nylon drawstring bag
> •	Add the remaining water up to the 6 -6.5 gallon mark, taking into consideration the volume of the mesh bags.
> •	Take an SG reading, you want the must to be between 1.075 – 1.090
> 
> I let this sit overnight, with a heat mat wrapped around the fermenter, a brew belt would do too, just until it reaches 85°.
> 
> This yeast can handle 80-85° with no problems.
> 
> *The following Day:
> *
> I take my selected yeast, 1 gram per gallon of must and rehydrate as follows:
> I heat a half cup of water to 120° and add 7.5 grams of Goferm (1.25 g per gram of yeast used), add to the water and mix it in. When the water cools to 110-115° add the yeast, just sprinkle on top and let it rehydrate, let sit for 15 minutes or until you see it starting to foam (reproduce), then add ¼ cup of the must. This will give it a source of food to continue to reproduce and multiply, and it will get the yeast acclimated to the temp of the must.
> Let sit for 5 mins and add to the primary.
> 
> Stir Primary Vigorously!
> 
> *Every Day:*
> 
> Check temp
> Check specific gravity
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: Temporarily place in sanitized bowl bucket.
> Stir primary to introduce a little oxygen into must, the yeast will need it.
> Replace fruit pack
> Cover primary
> When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: Discard fruit.
> Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
> Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
> Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
> Degas very thoroughly: I cannot emphasize this enough!
> Add Sparkolloid* as per package. Add hot mixture to carboy.
> Allow to clear undisturbed for about 1 week
> 
> *When wine is clear:*
> 
> Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
> 
> Back sweeten, if you are going to use sugar, I would make a simple syrup, 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water, heated just shy of a boil, you will see it turn to a syrup, make sure you stir constantly, you will probably need double that amount.
> Back sweeten to your own taste
> 
> Remember! The sugars will blend with the fruit flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward.
> Do not over-sweeten!
> Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks.



thx Pumpkinman


----------



## rigger197

thx Pumpkinman


----------



## Pumpkinman

thanks guys, just eliminate the lemon for the melomel.


----------



## dangerdave

Awesome, Tom! I am interested in trying your recipe with the pineapple juice. Nice addition.


----------



## ttimmer

When I started my Tropical Daze a couple days ago... SG was at 1.090 BEFORE the honey. If you want to make sure you can add the honey in the primary, you may want to back off on the sugar some. I also substituted key lime juice in place of the lemon. Mine is fermenting nicely this morning.


----------



## ShawnDTurner

So I racked and stabilized my ( 4 - Gallon) Sang Vrai (True Blood). I will be performing Batonnage on mine for a month. I took one gallon and added Medium French toast to it. After a month of Batonnage on both. I will backsweeten and then do Egg white clarification. Once this is complete I will filter and bottle.


----------



## wineforfun

cohenhouse77 said:


> It is hard not to drink at this stage. My kids all have had a small glass and it is their favorite stage of my wine making next to the bottling stage.



haha
I was thinking the same thing last night when I put together a batch of Dave's DB Melomel. It tasted great and would make a good summer drink for kids just using the berries, water, honey and lemon juice.


----------



## cohenhouse77

My Dragon's Blood label. You can tell I have kiddos.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Real nice!!


----------



## DaveL

cohenhouse77 said:


> My Dragon's Blood label. You can tell I have kiddos.



Is that a drunk Barney?


----------



## dangerdave

Nice Cohen! Very nice!


----------



## ShepherdQ

Cohen, those labels are skookum!


----------



## Tripplett

For those of you back sweetening with fruit reduced on the stove - how many lbs are you reducing and for how long? Do you add pectic enzyme? I'm thinking of reducing 1 to 2 lb for 30 minutes to an hour and then letting that cool. Adding that to the must and taking an SG reading. Sampling and then going from there. From the comments I'm guessing I need to stop short of where I 'really' want it as it will sweeten more over a week. How much more comes forward over that week? I know that's a lot of questions but its kind of hard to go back. Slow and easy is prudent here I suppose.


----------



## cohenhouse77

Pumpkin, 

Per your tropical recipe, did you add standard raisins, or golden raisins? Also, what made you decide to double the amount of fruit?


----------



## Pumpkinman

I picked up a box of Sunmaid raisins.
I decided to double the fruit after experimenting on a smaller batch and finding that the tropical fruit didn't give me enough "WOW" when I tasted it.
I also substituted the pineapple juice for the lemon, that put it over the top!


----------



## jrvernon

Danger,

Thank you for introducing me to such a fun wine. I has bubbled up up and over the airlock twice. It is so active! 

It smells amazing! I cannot wait to bottle this. 

James


----------



## WVMountaineerJack

cohenhouse77 said:


> My Dragon's Blood label. You can tell I have kiddos.



That is one of the coolest labels that have ever been posted here, I dig the claws! WVMJ


----------



## jrvernon

Just wondering, has anyone ever tried Dragon Blood as a sparkling wine? How would one make this happen without making it "champagne"?


----------



## Pumpkinman

By Champagne, do you mean dry, instead of a sweet sparkling wine? Good question, I'm fairly certain that if you didn't stabilize with sorbate, and cleared the wine, then back sweetened and put it in champagne bottles, it would start a second fermentation in the bottle, just like regular sparkling wine, or beer for that matter.
It might be worth trying a bottle or two like that.


----------



## jrvernon

Pumpkin,

Yes, sparkling sweet wine. Like a commercial moscato. I was actually trying to avoid champagne bottles, corks and cages.


----------



## Pumpkinman

If you are going to create a sparkling type wine, there is pressure involved, you will need to use Champagne bottles to avoid exploding caps, corks or bottles.
maybe someone else can suggest a different way which doesn't require champagne bottles.


----------



## Geronimo

All I know is that people make/bottle beer all the time with moderate carbonation. Controlling carbonation isn't hard. I'm not sure why you would risk using ordinary bottles when you will still need Champagne corks and baskets. 

IMO, from the one and only experience I had with it, I would never do it again. Champagne corks were the biggest PITA to work with. Clearly I didn't know what I was doing (or something) but I had a top quality floor corker made for Champagne corks and it was very hard to get them into the bottles.


----------



## Pumpkinman

use the plastic stoppers, you dont even need a corker, just push them in and put the wire cage on, almost too simple.


----------



## jrupjr

Has anyone run their fruit blend through a Juicing machine first to break it down more? Seems like it might give a strong juice taste at the end.


----------



## dangerdave

I don't have a juicer. The wine comes out with a great berry flavor with all that squeezing. Give it a try!


----------



## cohenhouse77

When I remove my straining bag out of primary, there is nothing left but seeds and skins. I cannot imagine achieving more juice than that. Also, when juicing, you run the risk of chopping open the bitterness inside seeds. I just let the pectic enzyme do it's thing.


----------



## lonesomechicken

I got everything I need going to start it Monday.


----------



## Tripplett

I read some posts where users used blenders and all it did was make it harder to clear later.


----------



## rezod11

cohenhouse77 said:


> My Dragon's Blood label. You can tell I have kiddos.



Cohen, I friggin' love this label! I may have to steal parts of it for my first DB, currently fermenting

Haven't been able to check it for two days as I have been on the couch with my back out. Feels like an excellent reason to buy the all-in-one...heh heh heh.


----------



## dangerdave

cohenhouse77 said:


> When I remove my straining bag out of primary, there is nothing left but seeds and skins. I cannot imagine achieving more juice than that. Also, when juicing, you run the risk of chopping open the bitterness inside seeds. I just let the pectic enzyme do it's thing.


 
Chris is quite right. If you are giving that bag a good squeeze ever day (the Presser Method), there's not much left at the end to discard.


----------



## mikeslag

So I finally got to sam's club and got all my ingredients and am super excited to try this. I had a couple questions though since I'm still new to all this:

1. When you say every day to squeeze the juice out of the bag, how hard am I squeezing? Like just enough to bruise the fruit or enough to crush it or what?

2. So what's the consensus on the reallemon, one bottle or two or is it just a taste thing? 

Thanks guys!


----------



## Pumpkinman

1 bottle! Unless you are making a Melomel, then no Lemon.


----------



## dangerdave

Pumpkinman said:


> 1 bottle! Unless you are making a Melomel, then no Lemon.


 
Ah, now there's the difference. I made my Red Dragon Melomel _exactly_ like the Dragon Blood except for the honey replacing the sugar in the primary. I used just as much lemon juice as well. You _have_ to try it.

I'm sending you a bottle tomorrow!


----------



## cohenhouse77

Pumpkinman said:


> I substituted 2 cans of Pineapple Juice for the Lemon Juice, I used a mix of sugar and honey since I was just about out of honey.
> Here is my variation based on Dave's recipe:
> 
> *Tropical Daze *
> 
> *Ingredients*
> 
> •	1 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (Rea Lemon in the green bottle)
> •	Water to about six gallons
> •	20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG btw 1.085-1.090)
> •	8 cups Honey use to bring SG up to desired amount
> •	2 – 48 oz Cans Dole Pineapple Juice
> •	1 tsp. tannin
> •	4 tsp. yeast nutrient
> •	2 tsp. yeast energizer
> •	3 Tsp Acid Blend
> •	3 tsp. pectin enzyme
> •	12 lbs. of Mixed Fruit Blend (Pineapple/ Peach/Mango/Strawberry/Grape) I put the fruit in a nylon drawstring bag or two if necessary, this will make for a much cleaner brew. I take a spring clamp and hold the drawstring in place so I don’t have to fish for them later.
> •	Yeast, 1 gram of yeast per gallon of Must. Lalvin 71B-1122 & ICV D47 blend,( you can use any of the following as well. DV10, QA23 - (Saccharomyces cerevisiae bayanus
> •	Go Ferm – 1.25 Gram per each gram of yeast used
> •	½ -1 Oak Infusion spiral stick
> •	2 oz untoasted oak.
> •	20 oz. Raisins, chopped & re-hydrated
> •	Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite
> •	Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate
> •	Sparkolloid
> •	Sugar or honey for Back sweetening - 4 cups
> 
> *Preparation:* _Add to Fermenting bucket_
> 
> •	20 Cups of Sugar
> •	2 gallons of hot water, stir until completely dissolved
> •	Add Honey, take SG reading, add until you reach 1.090
> •	2 - 48oz Cans of Dole Pineapple Juice
> •	3 Tbl acid blend
> •	1 tsp. tannin ( I prefer Tannin riche, it imparts a nice sweetness to wine)
> •	4 tsp. yeast nutrient
> •	2 tsp. yeast energizer
> •	3 tsp. pectin enzyme
> •	Stir well to incorporate all of the dry ingredients.
> •	12 lbs of Mixed Fruit Blend (Pineapple/ Peach/Mango/Strawberry/Grape), thawed. I put the fruit in a nylon drawstring bag or two if necessary; this will make for a much cleaner brew. I take a spring clamp and hold the drawstring in place so I don’t have to fish for them later.
> •	½ - 1 Oak Infusion Stick
> •	2 oz untoasted Oak – helps reduce any vegetal flavors – I add in nylon drawstring bag or grain steeping bag.
> •	20 oz chopped and re-hydrated raisins placed in Nylon drawstring bag
> •	Add the remaining water up to the 6 -6.5 gallon mark, taking into consideration the volume of the mesh bags.
> •	Take an SG reading, you want the must to be between 1.075 – 1.090
> 
> I let this sit overnight, with a heat mat wrapped around the fermenter, a brew belt would do too, just until it reaches 85°.
> 
> This yeast can handle 80-85° with no problems.
> 
> *The following Day:
> *
> I take my selected yeast, 1 gram per gallon of must and rehydrate as follows:
> I heat a half cup of water to 120° and add 7.5 grams of Goferm (1.25 g per gram of yeast used), add to the water and mix it in. When the water cools to 110-115° add the yeast, just sprinkle on top and let it rehydrate, let sit for 15 minutes or until you see it starting to foam (reproduce), then add ¼ cup of the must. This will give it a source of food to continue to reproduce and multiply, and it will get the yeast acclimated to the temp of the must.
> Let sit for 5 mins and add to the primary.
> 
> Stir Primary Vigorously!
> 
> *Every Day:*
> 
> Check temp
> Check specific gravity
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: Temporarily place in sanitized bowl bucket.
> Stir primary to introduce a little oxygen into must, the yeast will need it.
> Replace fruit pack
> Cover primary
> When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: Discard fruit.
> Rack to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy
> Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
> Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
> Degas very thoroughly: I cannot emphasize this enough!
> Add Sparkolloid* as per package. Add hot mixture to carboy.
> Allow to clear undisturbed for about 1 week
> 
> *When wine is clear:*
> 
> Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
> 
> Back sweeten, if you are going to use sugar, I would make a simple syrup, 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water, heated just shy of a boil, you will see it turn to a syrup, make sure you stir constantly, you will probably need double that amount.
> Back sweeten to your own taste
> 
> Remember! The sugars will blend with the fruit flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward.
> Do not over-sweeten!
> Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks.



Pumpkinman, may I encourage you to start another thread for the Tropical version? This could take on a whole life of it's own. By the smells and tastes, it may become my new favorite, and I am so glad I decided to go with the 6 gallons. I made some variations to yours, but do not want to hijack this thread with too much non-Dragon's Blood info. I also do not want to take any credit for your variation. New thread! New thread!


----------



## dangerdave

I agree, Tom. That is an awesome recipe! 

You should start a new thread!


----------



## Pumpkinman

Thanks, will do right now!


----------



## ejr

giving this a try ,ive backsweetened with koolaide which is good ,also backsweetened with raspberry and blueberry concentrate which was awesome,still up in the water about adding all the lemon juice and decreasing the yeast energizer and the yeast nutrient does it not get the rotten egg smell? Well to late now but I did biol all my water and dissolve the sugar in it that a habit.Do you place the lid on the primary bucket or do you just have a towel over it the whole time?Thanks for the information.


----------



## Dend78

ejr said:


> giving this a try ,ive backsweetened with koolaide which is good ,also backsweetened with raspberry and blueberry concentrate which was awesome,still up in the water about adding all the lemon juice and decreasing the yeast energizer and the yeast nutrient does it not get the rotten egg smell? Well to late now but I did biol all my water and dissolve the sugar in it that a habit.Do you place the lid on the primary bucket or do you just have a towel over it the whole time?Thanks for the information.



one thing of lemon should be plenty

energizer and nutrient if not used falls out or is used by other bacteria and organisims

i put the lid on it just to cover it, it has an airlock hole which i place a towel over to allow it to breathe but keeps everything else out.

if you like honey try using honey to back sweeten

as for the sulfer/ rotten egg smell i believe thats from SO2 you can try copper if your wine has a smell


----------



## Craiger

I'm always looking to make a wine for people who don't necessarily like the typical red or white grape wines, but do like Arbor Mist type wines. Do you think this recipe would satisfy that type of person?
Thanks!


----------



## cohenhouse77

Craiger said:


> I'm always looking to make a wine for people who don't necessarily like the typical red or white grape wines, but do like Arbor Mist type wines. Do you think this recipe would satisfy that type of person?
> Thanks!



This is better than any Arbor Mist that I have ever had, so I guess the answer would be no. This is for people that like good fruit wine.  

On a more serious note, I do have friends that don't like your typical red wine and they love this stuff. It is in line with a sweet red.


----------



## Craiger

Just what I wanted to hear! Thanks!


----------



## Craiger

I was just reading through the recipe. I have a question about racking off the gross lees in the primary. I've always racked off gross lees from a carboy, so it's obvious where they begin and end. How do you accomplish this in a primary (where you can't see the level of gross lees from the outside)?

I'm guessing you start with the bottom of the racking cane up high and lower it as the level of the wine lowers, and then when you hit the lees, stop?

Thanks!


----------



## jrvernon

jrvernon said:


> Just wondering, has anyone ever tried Dragon Blood as a sparkling wine? How would one make this happen without making it "champagne"?



Ok wish me luck, racking today into a five gallon and a one gallon which I'm going to attempt to make a sparkling wine. (Got some advice from a local beer maker). I am adding 2oz of dextrose to the one gallon carboy. Wait one week then bottle it. Have not decided which bottles I am going to try yet.


----------



## Pumpkinman

jrvernon, if you fermented to dry and the yeast is in fact dead then the sugar will not re-ferment. When I make beer the amount of dextrose, better know as Priming sugar to beer makers is 5 oz per 5 gallon batch.
Keep us posted, this is very interesting!


----------



## jrvernon

Pumpkinman said:


> jrvernon, if you fermented to dry and the yeast is in fact dead then the sugar will not re-ferment. When I make beer the amount of dextrose, better know as Priming sugar to beer makers is 5 oz per 5 gallon batch.
> Keep us posted, this is very interesting!



Pumpkin, it was either that or try some type of carbonation drops...??? Excuse me, mad scientist at work...hehe


----------



## Pumpkinman

LMAO! I'm interested in the outcome! 
Just remember the carbonation drops are another sugar source, you need the residual yeast to bring on the second fermentation.


----------



## cohenhouse77

jrvernon said:


> Pumpkin, it was either that or try some type of carbonation drops...??? Excuse me, mad scientist at work...hehe



Finally, a mad scientist close enough to me to let me try some!!!


----------



## Hokapsig

Finally bottled my Dragon blood as it has been sitting since summer. Nice and clear and ready for drinking. The Pineapple blend looks interesting, but I wonder what it tastes like without the fruit added?


----------



## Pumpkinman

Craiger, no gross lees if you put the fruit in nylon drawstring bags and put them in the fermenting bucket, once it is fermented to dry, we stabilized and fine, then back sweeten to your preference, rack, filter if you choose to and bottle.


----------



## Longtrain

My gallon test batch finished very dry and is very clear, now needs degassing and back sweetening, when can you drink this stuff?


----------



## dangerdave

The great thing about this wine is that you can drink it right away! Having said that, it does improve significantly in the bottle over the first couple of weeks---peaking at about three months. After you back sweeten, give it a week to clear back up, then drink away...or bottle and let it sit for a few.

You'll need a bigger batch next time. One gallon is not going to get it!


----------



## Longtrain

Thanks Dave, it does smell nice, and I think you're right, I'm going to need a bigger boat.


----------



## wineforfun

Ok, after a very successful first batch of DB I decided to make a batch of Blackberry DB. Not a good choice. I don't believe blackberries have enough flavor. The triple berry is a really nice fruity flavor. The blackberry really has no taste at all. Now I am sure you could probably backsweeten with an extract, concentrate, etc. but comparing "apples to apples", the blackberry isn't close to the triple berry.
I will be bottling the DB melomel in two weeks and am very interested in giving it a go. 
Also, I have found I like to add 1 1/2lbs. of fruit per gal. instead of 1lb. per gal.
Anyway, gotta give it up to Dave and DB and to Lon for his inspiration.


----------



## jrupjr

I just racked from my primary to secondary. Do I need to top up the carboy at all during the process? there is no mention of it in the DB Owners Manual


----------



## dangerdave

I left out topping up? Dangit! I'll have to address that. Thanks, jr.


----------



## Tripplett

jrupjr said:


> Do I need to top up the carboy at all during the process?


On stabilizing night I simmered another lb of quad berries for 30 minutes in a saucepan with about 20oz of water. I then added 3 cups of sugar to that while it was warm and let it cool off some. I poured through a colander with a mesh bag over it then i added to the carboy after the k meta and sorbate. I then tasted and added some more to taste. That's just the way I did it as I plan to rack one more time before bottling. I'm new to this so I hope it works out ok but I didn't want to use water and it tastes amazing.


----------



## jrvernon

cohenhouse77 said:


> Finally, a mad scientist close enough to me to let me try some!!!



Mad scientist update... The gallon tester of the sparkling DB is clearing, so I took a taste. Because I did not back sweeten, it is a slight bit dry. I plan on bottling this weekend. I will use 750's with easy caps (another suggestion of my friendly neighborhood beer/wine store). I am hoping that aging this wine for a few months will help the dryness.


----------



## mikeslag

Just dropped a batch of this Sunday, pitched yeast Monday and Did my squeezing today. Just curious though, isn't there a worry about contamination from opening this up every day??


----------



## jrvernon

mikeslag said:


> Just dropped a batch of this Sunday, pitched yeast Monday and Did my squeezing today. Just curious though, isn't there a worry about contamination from opening this up every day??



Mike, just my two cents...I personally sterilize the crap out of everything! My hands, holding bucket, top of lid, and anything that might come in contact gets a spray down.


----------



## mikeslag

jrvernon said:


> Mike, just my two cents...I personally sterilize the crap out of everything! My hands, holding bucket, top of lid, and anything that might come in contact gets a spray down.



Yeah that's definitely the plan I was just curious about exposing it every day and eliminating that nice bubble of gas in there. Thanks!

Also, I've seen a few suggestions but what does everyone top off with? Water?


----------



## jrvernon

mikeslag said:


> Yeah that's definitely the plan I was just curious about exposing it every day and eliminating that nice bubble of gas in there. Thanks!
> 
> Also, I've seen a few suggestions but what does everyone top off with? Water?



I have never had to top off, but if I did I would probably top off with juice (squeezed from blend)


----------



## Redskins

Hi Dave,

When you say triple berry blend from the frozen section at grocery stores will any brand work? I thought something like that might have some type of preservatives? I am asking because this will be my first try at making skeeter pee in a couple weeks and i would love to get it right. Thanks for the recipe


----------



## Boatboy24

Redskins said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> When you say triple berry blend from the frozen section at grocery stores will any brand work? I thought something like that might have some type of preservatives? I am asking because this will be my first try at making skeeter pee in a couple weeks and i would love to get it right. Thanks for the recipe



Yes, from the store. No specific brand is necessary. If there are preservatives, that 24 hour soak prior to pitching the yeast should be enough to let them "blow off" a bit. This is an easy and fun recipe that produces a great, easy drinking fruity wine. Do at least three gallons though, because it'll go fast. Enjoy. I hope to bottle mine next weekend.


----------



## Redskins

I have never made wine from fruit before. What do you use to press the fruit to get the juice out? I would hope to not have to spend to much money on buying more equipment.


----------



## Boatboy24

When I stir daily, I simply press the bag against the side of the fermenter with my spoon. When fermentation is complete, simply pull the bag out and give it a squeeze with your (sanitized) hands. That's it. The frozen fruit used in these recipes pretty much turns to mush and gives up it's juice easily, so no fancy presses needed.


----------



## dangerdave

I like Tripplett's idea for topping up with juice! I've used the juice during backsweetening before, for added fruit flavor.

Like Boatboy said, any brand of fruit---in whatever combination you like---will do. Many different verisons have been created this way.

I wash my hand well, sprits my hands with a little sanitizer, pat dry, and squeeze the daylights out of that bag of fruit. I set the bag in a sanitized bucket while I'm stirring the heck out of the must, and then float the bag back in. I have had no issues thus far (after 20 some batches).


----------



## Redskins

After this wine has cleared nice and you bottle it, how long until it is ready to drink? Right away?


----------



## Boatboy24

Redskins said:


> After this wine has cleared nice and you bottle it, how long until it is ready to drink? Right away?



Technically, yes. But 2 to 4 weeks in the bottle will do wonderful things.


----------



## dangerdave

I whole-heartedly agree with that! Giving it some time in the bottle---a week or two---makes for a better wine. It seems to peak at about three months. I haven't had any of mine last longer than that.


----------



## Tripplett

I bottled my quad berry dragon blood tonight. Thanks for all the help from the forum. This was the second wine I've made but the first to make it to bottles. I fought with the twin lever corker a bit but in the end I won. I love the color and flavor of this.


----------



## cohenhouse77

Tripplett said:


> I love the color and flavor of this.



Just curious what SG you back sweetened to?


----------



## Tripplett

cohenhouse77 said:


> Just curious what SG you back sweetened to?



I finished fermenting at .994 and back sweetened to 1.004 so I brought it up .01. I don't care for a very sweet wine and my wife said she loved it so I stopped there. Plus it should get a little better in a month.


----------



## cohenhouse77

Thanks. I'm just trying to get a consensus.


----------



## dangerdave

The color is nice, Tripplett. Now you see where the Dragon Blood got it's name. Enjoy!

Speaking of...have you come up with a name for your quad-berry version? Such a bold and beautiful wine deserves a good name.


----------



## Tripplett

dangerdave said:


> have you come up with a name for your quad-berry version? Such a bold and beautiful wine deserves a good name.



Since the only addition is strawberries I didn't think it warranted a new name. Everyone that tastes this likes it but when I tell them the recipe is called Dragon's Blood most give me a strange look. I guess they don't like to think of drinking blood. I will label it something else and I haven't come up with that name yet. My wife wants to call our wines 'Trippin' Cellar Wines' so that part we got.

On a side note I did get some comments about a strong raspberry flavor, an observation I have made too but I was waiting for a month before mentioning. It could be that I keep forgetting there is 1 bottle of lemon in the mix. As I sit here sipping the remainder of the 1/2 bottle I couldn't cork I actually think that is it. Perhaps next time I need to make a lemon free batch. Or reduce the raspberry and add more strawberries. More experamentation is in order...


----------



## dangerdave

I make lemon free batches. They have their own character, for sure. You should give it a go for comparison's sake. Some folks like one, some like the other. I keep both on hand to promote total family-wide euphoria. If I didn't know they already loved me, I'd sware it's the wine!


----------



## Redskins

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...angId=-1&keyword=paint+strainer&storeId=10051

Is this the kind of bag i could use? If so would i leave the elastic string in it or take it out? Thanks!

I am getting excited to do some dragons blood either this weekend or next!


----------



## dangerdave

That looks like it would work fine. Good find! You cold use the string to tie it shut maybe. Or take it out a tie the bag up another way. Your choice, I think!

Good luck on the Dragon Blood! You're going to love it!


----------



## ttimmer

I had some neighbors taste the Dragon's Blood the night it was bottled, and then again after 2 weeks -- they were amazed at the difference. My tropical version is sitting for 2 weeks before I pull the first cork (except for the partial bottle I drank the night it was bottled). Can't wait to try the difference.


----------



## Redskins

2 Quick questions,

1. Alot of what i have read said 6 lbs of fruit per gallon of water. Why do you only need 6 pounds total for this whole batch? Its great that 6 lbs works as that will save some money 

2. What is the best way that you defrost the fruit? Move to the fridge a few days before making the wine? Leave at room temp? Microwave?

Thanks!!


----------



## dangerdave

ttimmer said:


> I had some neighbors taste the Dragon's Blood the night it was bottled, and then again after 2 weeks -- they were amazed at the difference.


 
Excellent! Always good to get positive feedback.



> My tropical version is sitting for 2 weeks before I pull the first cork. Can't wait to try the difference.


 
You're sure to like that one, too. Tom's got a great recipe there.



> (except for the partial bottle I drank the night it was bottled).


 
In our cellar, we call that "The Wine Maker's Portion". Bottling in the morning is awesome! Then I'm drinking wine all day!


----------



## wineforfun

Redskins said:


> 2 Quick questions,
> 
> 1. Alot of what i have read said 6 lbs of fruit per gallon of water. Why do you only need 6 pounds total for this whole batch? Its great that 6 lbs works as that will save some money
> 
> 2. What is the best way that you defrost the fruit? Move to the fridge a few days before making the wine? Leave at room temp? Microwave?
> 
> Thanks!!



6lbs. will work just fine but I have since bumped mine to 9lbs.

I put it in some warm water and let it thaw in the sink.


----------



## dangerdave

Redskins said:


> 2 Quick questions,
> 
> 1. Alot of what i have read said 6 lbs of fruit per gallon of water. Why do you only need 6 pounds total for this whole batch? Its great that 6 lbs works as that will save some money


 
I still use just 6 lbs for each batch for the Dragon Blood recipe. I know it sounds impossible, and some wine makers---like DJ---use more. It works. I'm still not sure why, but it works. In my opinion, it has to do with several factors. The acid in the lemon juice working on the skins of the fruit imparts a great deal of the flavor, I think. In other fruit wines, you would just use the juice. I was amazed at the first test batch. Maybe someone who has been making wine longer than me can give some insite. I'm still at a bit of a loss why this method works so well.



> 2. What is the best way that you defrost the fruit? Move to the fridge a few days before making the wine? Leave at room temp? Microwave?


 
I used to leave the fruit out overnight. Now, I just microwave the fruit until it's soft. Your choice.


----------



## Redskins

Thanks again


----------



## Tripplett

I just read this discussion on how much fruit to use on Jack Keller's website. I hope it's ok to post links. 
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/advbasic.asp

Basically you are trying to make berry wine. Too much berry and the balance is tipped and now you have an alcoholic berry drink but it doesn't taste like a wine. Obviously you have a window to work with here and everyone's taste buds are different. 6 may be good for one while another likes 9 and another likes even more. I encourage you to make the first batch per instructions then change it after you've tried the original. 

As for the defrosting of the fruit I put the bags in the sink with warm water.


----------



## cohenhouse77

I add frozen directly to the nylon straining bag in the primary. I then pour my heated sugar water right over the top. It sits for a day or two to settle out the meta bisulfate, and will all balance temp by then. My must is dark red before I ever pitch yeast.


----------



## CrimsonRose

I read the whole thread and couldn't wait to try a batch! So I dug through my freezer to see what I had to get started ! I had to make a few adjustments based on what I have Available. I have tons of Blackberries left in the freezer from last summer so used those and a bag of cranberries I found. I'm only making a 5 gallon batch because that's the only carboy I have unfilled... LOL So here is My first try and Dragon's Blood...

1 Bottle of Lemon juice (32oz)
5lbs of Blackberries
12oz bag of Cranberries
2 banana's (for mouthfeel) 
15 cups of Sugar
1tsp Tannin
3 tsp Pectic Enzyme
2tsp of Bentonite
2tsp of Yeast Nutrient 

Mixed it up yesterday and pitched the yeast this morning! now to wait


----------



## Redskins

Do you have do do anything to ensure the fruit bag stays under the wine? If it floats up and the froat is exposed it will rot after a while right? Or does that take a few days (so pushing it down once a day and getting it wet once a day would prevent that?)


----------



## CrimsonRose

I've never had an issue with the fruit rotting... 
I use new knee-high nylons for each batch (they are cheap at Dollar General Stores!).... I fill it with fruit then tie off the end... Then each day I push it down and mashing it with my spoon on the side of the primary... seems to do the trick... by the end of the ferment their ususally isn't much fruit left... I squeeze out the bag and toss it in the trash... 

I've even forgotten to stir for a few days when I get busy... and not had issues... but that has been with other wines... I've just started my first batch of this DB but I would say with the high acid the chances of rot would be even less since lemon juice is used as a preservative sometimes.


----------



## Redskins

For the stirring every day, do you snap the lid in place on the primary or just set it on top? If you snap it in place since they are tough to get off do you removie the airlock then the lid then stir and replace lid, or just remove the lid with the airlock? Thanks again


----------



## CrimsonRose

I just set mine on top... I have kiddos running through my kitchen so I usually set a 5lb bag of sugar or flower on top to make sure it doesn't get knocked off...


----------



## cohenhouse77

Redskins said:


> Do you have do do anything to ensure the fruit bag stays under the wine? If it floats up and the froat is exposed it will rot after a while right? Or does that take a few days (so pushing it down once a day and getting it wet once a day would prevent that?)



It seems Dave has given daily instructions for this recipe. It is a play by play that leaves little to question unless you decide to add ingredients in which case he has a strict, "Swim at your own risk" policy. The bag is to be gently squeezed and removed, stir the must, and then return the bag. If you haven't read his full recipe and play by play, it would be a good thing. Maybe print it off and create a checklist.

Just kidding by the way. I think Dave likes us swimming outside the ropes.


----------



## Boatboy24

Redskins said:


> Do you have do do anything to ensure the fruit bag stays under the wine? If it floats up and the froat is exposed it will rot after a while right? Or does that take a few days (so pushing it down once a day and getting it wet once a day would prevent that?)



It takes a while for the fruit to begin to rot. "Punch down" by gently stirring once or twice a day. This will remove some of the CO2 from the bag, but it'll probably still float. You can also gently press the bag against the side of the fermenter with the spoon to help extract that fruity goodness. I find this is a lot easier and cleaner than taking the bag out and squeezing by hand. I wait until I'm taking the bag out to do that.

As far as the lid goes, I generally snap it tight, but it's a matter of personal preference. When snapping it back on, I remove the airlock to prevent "blowback" of the liquid in there. So, I'll snap the lid down partially, remove the airlock, finish snapping, and replace the airlock.


----------



## Dend78

Redskins said:


> For the stirring every day, do you snap the lid in place on the primary or just set it on top? If you snap it in place since they are tough to get off do you removie the airlock then the lid then stir and replace lid, or just remove the lid with the airlock? Thanks again



just set the lid on top, you want air to get to it and you want co2 to escape a good free flow, you can also just cover the top with a moist towel to keep dust and other airborne floating crud out for easy stirring. no need for the airlock right now use it when you transfer to secondary.


----------



## mikeslag

ALLLLLLRIGHTY! Right out .092 currently and have removed the fruit pack from my first batch. My wife and I do wine stuff together on the weekend so I'm lucky enough to leave it in the primary for a few extra days to help get rid of some of the lees, etc. Anyway even without clearing it's a gorgeous color, super excited!


----------



## Redskins

Will this recipe work in a 6.5 g fermenter? The instructions said 7 but I don't have one. I can get one if its needed.


----------



## frenzy92

Just bottled ours! 

Here's a pic of the finished product...


----------



## wineforfun

Redskins said:


> Will this recipe work in a 6.5 g fermenter? The instructions said 7 but I don't have one. I can get one if its needed.



Yes, you just won't have alot of room to stir. If anything, depending on how full it gets, you may have to back off the amounts just a touch. Fill your primary with water and set the bag of fruit in it(still in its original bag) and see where you are at. Then you will know if you need to make any modifications.


----------



## wineforfun

frenzy92 said:


> Just bottled ours!
> 
> Here's a pic of the finished product...



Yummy. Looks great.


----------



## Redskins

Do you think this recipe would work for other fruit as well? You use 6 pounds of the tripple berry blend what if you just used 6 pounds of the frozen blueberries?


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, I have used other fruits with the same results. Use whatever fruit you like. I've done peach, blueberry, blackberry, strawberry, the standard triple berry, and a great tropical blend of peach/mango/pineapple/strawberry (which I highly recommend). You can make any of these with or without lemon juice as well. There are many variations to date. I'm trying to figure out what to try next! Plum? Pear? Concord grape, maybe. This recipe is intended to be highly adaptable for making quick batches of easy-drinking fruit wine while your "good stuff" ages. Winos need wine, after all.

I really don't mind the questions one bit. I'll repeat myself as many times as necessary to get everyone making good wine fast and furious(ly). The continued interest in this recipe is amazing.

I hope everyone continues with their successes, like Deanna (above). Yours looks great!!!


----------



## Redskins

mmmm pear sounds quite delicious


----------



## frenzy92

dangerdave said:


> Yes, I have used other fruits with the same results. Use whatever fruit you like. I've done peach, blueberry, blackberry, strawberry, the standard triple berry, and a great tropical blend of peach/mango/pineapple/strawberry (which I highly recommend). You can make any of these with or without lemon juice as well. There are many variations to date. I'm trying to figure out what to try next! Plum? Pear? Concord grape, maybe. This recipe is intended to be highly adaptable for making quick batches of easy-drinking fruit wine while your "good stuff" ages. Winos need wine, after all.
> 
> I really don't mind the questions one bit. I'll repeat myself as many times as necessary to get everyone making good wine fast and furious(ly). The continued interest in this recipe is amazing.
> 
> I hope everyone continues with their successes, like Deanna (above). Yours looks great!!!




Thanks!!!!! We bottled 24 bottles of it, and the leftover was put in a plastic pitcher in our refrigerator for our immediate enjoyment. After all, we've heard a glass of wine a night is good for you...


----------



## nbwii

I just ordered a new carboy to give this a try. The colour is so pretty. I was wondering, if I tried it with 48ounces of fresh squeezed orange juice instead of Lemon Juice do you think it would make a huge difference? Can you think of anything that might require adjusting?


----------



## cohenhouse77

nbwii said:


> I just ordered a new carboy to give this a try. The colour is so pretty. I was wondering, if I tried it with 48ounces of fresh squeezed orange juice instead of Lemon Juice do you think it would make a huge difference? Can you think of anything that might require adjusting?



Now that is a cool idea!


----------



## Geronimo

nbwii said:


> I just ordered a new carboy to give this a try. The colour is so pretty. I was wondering, if I tried it with 48ounces of fresh squeezed orange juice instead of Lemon Juice do you think it would make a huge difference? Can you think of anything that might require adjusting?



Lemon juice is a LOT more acidic. Like 3-5 times as much.


----------



## nbwii

That's what I was thinking (didn't know it was that much though) but I read a number of comments where people commented that they couldn't enjoy it because of reflux so I figured the OJ might be a decent compromise. Would the difference in acidity require much adjustment do you think?


----------



## cohenhouse77

That's what I was thinking. There are people that don't even add any lemon at all because of this. Orange juice might be a really nice twist on things.


----------



## Redskins

Is the purpose of the lemo juice just for flavor?


----------



## wineforfun

Redskins said:


> Is the purpose of the lemo juice just for flavor?



I think it is more for the acidity than the flavor.


----------



## Tripplett

Most of the dragon blood variants that don't use lemon juice have acid blend added. There are a few different recipes out there. I would love to know how a variant with orange juice and some acid blend would turn out.


----------



## snowgirl812001

I'm thinking about doing one with grapefruit and oranges, but how much acid blend would I need?


----------



## mrtree

I picked up some lemon juice for this over the weekend. I notice it contains preservatives. Will this become a problem with fermentation? I have always tried to stay away from these when selecting juice.

Thanks


----------



## Geronimo

Tripplett said:


> Most of the dragon blood variants that don't use lemon juice have acid blend added. There are a few different recipes out there. I would love to know how a variant with orange juice and some acid blend would turn out.



Most acid blends are ~40% citric acid... so adding acid blend to orange juice probably won't change things much from the original recipe with pure lemon juice.


----------



## mikeslag

When we did our initial racking to the secondary there was some sulfury stink, anyone else get that? Maybe rhino farts or something to do with the K-Meta or Sorbate? Anyway will it go away if I let it sit for a while? We're completely clear wine at this point and thinking about probably moving it to another carboy for backsweetening and hopefully bottling.

Thanks.


----------



## cohenhouse77

mikeslag said:


> When we did our initial racking to the secondary there was some sulfury stink, anyone else get that? Maybe rhino farts or something to do with the K-Meta or Sorbate? Anyway will it go away if I let it sit for a while? We're completely clear wine at this point and thinking about probably moving it to another carboy for backsweetening and hopefully bottling.
> 
> Thanks.



I wouldn't let a sulfur smell sit. It will get worse and embed in the wine. There are several threads on here on how to combat sulfur and Jack Keller has some good online info as well. Splash racking until it is gone has worked for me, but act fast.


----------



## DaveL

I had bad smell in a kit wine that I let get too hot during primary fermintation. I did 2 splash rackings and it went totally away. There are several threads on splash racking and a video somewhere on here.


----------



## wineforfun

mikeslag said:


> When we did our initial racking to the secondary there was some sulfury stink, anyone else get that? Maybe rhino farts or something to do with the K-Meta or Sorbate? Anyway will it go away if I let it sit for a while? We're completely clear wine at this point and thinking about probably moving it to another carboy for backsweetening and hopefully bottling.
> 
> Thanks.



You shouldn't have had any K-Meta or sorbate in it at that point. Did you add these to the initial ferment?


----------



## mrtree

mrtree said:


> I picked up some lemon juice for this over the weekend. I notice it contains preservatives. Will this become a problem with fermentation? I have always tried to stay away from these when selecting juice.
> 
> Thanks




Any thoughts on the lemon juice ingredients? 

What brand of lemon juice have people used? Should I be looking for 100% lemon juice with no additives?

Looking forward to getting this thing rolling!


----------



## cohenhouse77

mrtree said:


> Any thoughts on the lemon juice ingredients?
> 
> What brand of lemon juice have people used? Should I be looking for 100% lemon juice with no additives?
> 
> Looking forward to getting this thing rolling!



The lemon I use is per recipe. It is the Real Lemon with Sodium Bisulfite and Sodium Benzoate. The directions on the site say to add the lemon and give it a good stir over several days to dissipate the preservatives. I whip to add oxygen and release preservatives at the same time right before pitching.


----------



## mikeslag

wineforfun said:


> You shouldn't have had any K-Meta or sorbate in it at that point. Did you add these to the initial ferment?



Yes, of course you're right. I shouldn't have put that in. I added those doing step 4.


----------



## mikeslag

As an update if anyone cares I took a sniff inside today and it smells wonderful with no further stink of fire and brimstone.


----------



## cohenhouse77

That is great. I care!


----------



## suecasa

Finished the batch. Sediment settled with a bit more time. Bottled last night. Valentines gifts today. Needless to say our friends love us


----------



## Gedanken

Tripplett said:


> I bottled my quad berry dragon blood tonight. Thanks for all the help from the forum. This was the second wine I've made but the first to make it to bottles. I fought with the twin lever corker a bit but in the end I won. I love the color and flavor of this.
> 
> View attachment 7016




Those bottles on the left are unique. Where did you get them?


----------



## JetJockey

*DB Newbie Questions*

I've followed Danger Dave's recipe to the tee. I had to add 22 cups of sugar to get the SG up to 1.074 @ 82F or 1.077 corrected. It was only 1.070 @ 82F with 20 cups of sugar. I may have more water than the recipe in my 7.9 liter primary.

I used the sanitize my hands and squeezed the nylon bag as hard as I could every day. The brew belt placed at the very top maintained the temp at 80-82F in the 72F house. This should be OK with the EC-118 yeast since it can handle up to 86F.

I also used a drill stir everyday to oxygenate and degas. I had to be very careful since I only had 1/2 - 3/4" to the top of the primary.

I let it ferment in the primary for 8 days until the SG dropped to 0.996 corrected. I took the fruit bag out and let it sit for two more days without the brew belt. After the 10 days total, the final SG end up at 0.991. I should end up with the ABV being 11.61%. I then splash racked it off the lees to a 6-gal glass carboy with the All-in one-wine pump. What an awesome piece of equipment! I love the AIOWP!!!

I had put the K-Meta and K-Sorbate in a 6-gal glass carboy and racked out of the primary into this carboy to ensure mixing. To degas *thoroughly*, I splash racked the wine from the secondary glass carboy to another glass carboy and then back to the original. I did a 'Puff' test and it still had a big puff, so I racked half back to a glass carboy and used the drill stir to vigorously degas each 1/2 filled carboy. I still got A LOT of CO2 out by stirring each 1/2 carboy for at least 6-8 minutes. I then finished splash racking the remaining half to make a full glass carboy, almost 6.5 gallons. Again, I can't say enough how easy it is to transfer and rack with the AIOWP! (I wouldn't have degassed as thoroughly if I had to stir and gravity rack!) I then added the Sparkolloid and let clear 8 days.

Now my questions: 1) When I rack the cleared wine out of the secondary of the fine sediment/lees, should I rack it into a clean/sterilized carboy with the 4-5 cups of sugar in it to help dissolve the sugar OR should I prepare a syrup by dissolving the 4-5 cups of sugar in near boiling water and placing the cooled syrup in the receiving carboy?

2) Can I filter and then bottle after the sugar is dissolved by either method above OR do I let the back-sweetened wine sit and clear before filtering/bottling? If it should sit, how long before filtering bottling?

3) I have seen some AWESOME DB labels by Danger Dave, Frenzy92, Cohenhouse77, PrincessVitah, and Pumpkinman, and others. I have Photoshop, Word, etc. What software do you all use to design your labels?

4) What label stock/labels do you use that look so nice, print well with inkjet printer, and can be removed easily for the next batch?

THANK YOU to Dave and all of you for making my first non-kit batch a lot of fun!!! ( My only other experience is a Wine Expert White Merlot kit waiting to be filtered/bottled). I am waiting to filter and bottle both batches at the same time using the whole house filter and AIOWP.

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## frenzy92

We use Microsoft Publisher to design the labels. And honestly, we are kinda cheap and just use Avery mailing labels. We have started purchasing some different label sheets to try out, so I'll try to remember to post a picture when we try those out. Our local Staples store stocks some laser printer specialty wine label sheets, but we just used them with our ink jet printer and they still worked well.


----------



## ttimmer

1) I prefer backsweetening with a simple syrup. Put some in, taste, add more, taste... when you are happy - check the final SG so you can duplicate the sweetness next time.

2) Let it sit and clear. A couple days, plus -- mine really varies.

3) I design my labels on Photoshop

4) I buy my vinyl water resistant ink jet labels at labelsbythesheet.com 6 labels per sheet.


----------



## Tripplett

Gedanken said:


> Those bottles on the left are unique. Where did you get them?



I was waiting for someone to comment on that. I found them at Trader Joe's and thought they would make some unique gift bottles. They were about $5 and the wine in them is pretty good to boot. I'll attach a pic of the original bottle and label.


----------



## dangerdave

Just gotta say I'm glad everyone's DB is turning out great! Drink up!

I am going to have to try a batch with OJ instead of lemon. I've made an orange/lemon that turned out very nice. Great ideas on variations!


----------



## dangerdave

In my eternal search to improve the DB recipe, I give you my current endeavor: _Dragon Blood Especial!_

This batch was made using the original DB recipe, with a common twist. The variation included a pound of raisins in the mesh bag with the fruit, and six medium size bananas in a separate mesh bag. The result was a DB with much more body, and that same lovely red color. At this point in it's life, the DB usually presents as a tart young wine with hope---that it will improve in the bottle. This version had none of that. Even though I had just racked and sweetened, it presented a very surprising suppleness: smooth and silky on the tongue. The acidity (lemonocity?) showed as a noticable hint in the background, not the bold in-your-face tartness to which I was accustomed. The mix of berries had developed a nice complexity, lingering on the pallet. The taste was balanced and delightful, approaching "elegant".

I also changed the yeast I normally use: from _Lavin EC-1118_ to _Red Star Montrachet_.

I know! I am very happily surprised myself! My wife, Johnna, said, "Make it this way from now on!" Since the cost addition is minimal, I may very well do that. Any of you who frequently make DB should try this varition for yourselves. At the grocery store, you can get a one pound box of raisins and some bananas for the modest sum of 3-4 dollars.

Ready to bottle, _Dragon Blood Especial!_


----------



## ShawnDTurner

Nice to hear you like the Banana edition, I told you, you would be happy with it. Next time add fruit when your brew get's between 1.020 - 1.030. Try some medium french toast in the primary in the beginning and then some un-toasted oak powder at around 1.030. You will be blown away.. Cheers!


----------



## ShawnDTurner

Try Cotes du blanc or D-47, these yeast are made for this type of wine. Cheers


----------



## dangerdave

ShawnDTurner said:


> Nice to hear you like the Banana edition, I told you, you would be happy with it. Next time add fruit when your brew get's between 1.020 - 1.030. Try some medium french toast in the primary in the beginning and then some un-toasted oak powder at around 1.030. You will be blown away.. Cheers!


 
I knew you would be along to tell me, "I told you so!", and you were quite right, Shawn. Thank you.

Now, are you suggesting leaving the fruit _out_ completely until the wine gets to 1.020 or so, or are you saying add _more_ fruit at that point?

I need to get me some wood! I don't have any oak in the Lab. Pathetic, I know! My lovely wife scoffs at dry oaked reds , so getting some woodiness past her might be a trick. I racked my Rosso Fortissimo last night and I couldn't even get her to taste it!


----------



## PrincessVintah

Mr. Wonderful has really enjoyed my Dragon's Blood wine. Let's just say I've made a believer out of him. He's already ready to make another batch. I'm thinking of trying a cherry/lime version. Do you think it would work if I used the same amounts of fruit and citrus juice if I substitute cherries for the triple berry blend and lime juice for the lemon? I'm also intetested in doing a peach wine, as well.


----------



## dangerdave

I thought someone had made a cherry lime, maybe Pumpkinman (Tom).

Ah, it was Derek (DirtyDog10)! Here is his version, check it out: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/cherry-lemon-lime-dragons-blood-34696/


----------



## ShawnDTurner

In addition,once the S.G. is between 1.020 and 1.030, I use french medium Toast chips in the primary. The amount oak you will add will only enhance, Not enough to make the dreaded OAK Monster appear. You will be adding complexity through layering. I feel a I TOLD YOU so on the way! LOL Cheers


----------



## dangerdave

Oak, searching for oak now...




...you told me so...


----------



## ShawnDTurner

Medium French Toast chips and Untoasted oak powder


----------



## dangerdave

ShawnDTurner said:


> Medium French Toast chips and Untoasted oak powder


 
Roger that!


----------



## Tripplett

dangerdave said:


> The variation included a pound of raisins in the mesh bag with the fruit, and six medium size bananas in a separate mesh bag. The result was a DB with much more body, and that same lovely red color.


Very interesting. Sounds yummy. Do you cut up or mash the bananas first? Do you mash at them daily with the other fruit? Are the raisins dark or white ones?


----------



## dangerdave

Raisins: dark. Bananas: ripe, sliced, smashed daily like other fruit. Actually, from now on I will just put everything in the bag together for easy mashing.


----------



## Craiger

How many times do you guys reuse your nylon mesh bag?


----------



## PrincessVintah

Thank you for the link. I must give it a go as soon as I have an empty carboy!


----------



## Tess

Im so glad I found this. This is going to be my first wine. Your right, I can make this one and show it off to my family while Im making a longer ageing wine. They prefer a sweeter wine as I like the dry. Thanks you so much for this!! Your instructions were so easy and clear. One question. What do you use for the mess bag that holds the fruit.


----------



## dangerdave

Craiger said:


> How many times do you guys reuse your nylon mesh bag?


 
I have washed and reused my nylon bags many times.


----------



## dangerdave

Tess said:


> Im so glad I found this. This is going to be my first wine. Your right, I can make this one and show it off to my family while Im making a longer ageing wine. They prefer a sweeter wine as I like the dry. Thanks you so much for this!! Your instructions were so easy and clear. One question. What do you use for the mess bag that holds the fruit.


 
You are very welcome, Tess. I hope you enjoy it. I use nylon mesh bags I bought from George at finevinewines.com. Go to their Online Catalog/Straining Bags.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Shawn, I've been using medium toast oak in mine since the first batch, i is a great improvement, I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Craiger

dangerdave said:


> I have washed and reused my nylon bags many times.



Thank you!


----------



## JetJockey

*Nylon Mesh Bag?*

I have a large fine nylon mesh bag. After my first Dragon Blood, it was stained a nice red/pink color. When I 'cleaned' it, I used an industrial 'oxy-clean' called EZ Clean, sold by my Local Wine Store. It is the same cleaner as One Step, i.e. made by the same company - LD Carlson.

The nylon mesh bag wend from the nice pink color to an ugly brown color while soaking. Is this normal? I do notice that when cleaning equipment, the EZ Clean does turn wine from red to clear/golden brown.

Should I be using something else to clean equipment/bags with?

Bob


----------



## dangerdave

I use normal Oxyclean for all of my clensing needs, Bob. Bottles, bags, carboys, canes, tubing. I scrub the nylon bags with the Oxyclean solution, rinse well, and store them in a plastic lidded container with some sulfite solution until next use. Before using them again, I rinse out the sulfite, and then fill them with the desired fruit(s). I have three bags that I have reused dozens of times.


----------



## Tess

I bought some paint straining bag from Lowes. they are so cheap I will probably pitch them


----------



## JetJockey

*Dragon Blood SG, ABV, & residual sugar?*

I wanted to calculate my DB's ABV and Residual Sugar %.

I've seen a couple formulas using the initial SG and final SG to calculate the ABV. In my case, the Initial SG was 1.077 and the final (before back sweetening) was 0.991. The formulas use anywhere from 131 to 135 times the difference between initial and final SG. If I use 132 x (1.077-0.991) = 11.35% ABV.

I found the Quick Reference Guide to Estimating a Wines ABV and Residual Sugar in 3 Easy Steps. According to the very scientific research and calculations on website: http://www.rochesterwinemakers.org/winemaking-information/winemaking-articles-by-members/guide-est-abv-and-res-sugar/ there is a direct correlation between the final SG and ABV to the residual sugar %.

Using Rochester Winemakers' 3-step method for my DB, the residual sugar/extract (various non-sugar compounds in wine like tannin, acids, glycerol, & pigments) is about 1.8%. Step 3 subtracted the extract component that has contributed to the final RS from the calculated combined extract/RS: 1.8% - 2.2% for white grapes/other fruit = DRY (-.04%). I guess you can't have drier than dry of 0% - maybe we should have a dry, extra dry, etc.!

With my Dragon Blood, I back sweetened my 6+ gallons with 6 cups of sugar to get the SG after back-sweetening to 1.012. How do I account for the additional sugar being added to calculate the true residual sugar? 

The Rochester Winemakers Website states "For accurate results, use an SG taken before sweetening as your final SG. Of course you’ll then have to update the residual sugar amount with the new sugar." I'm struggling with how to add my DRY or 0% residual sugar with the 6 cups of added sugar (back-sweetened) to get the final RS%. I don't have the weights of the 6+ gallons of pre-sweetened dry DB to take a % by weight of 6 cups of raw sugar @ 250 g = 1500 g / x grams of 6+ gallons of DB wine.

Any suggestions to calculate the RS?

Thanks!


----------



## dangerdave

Um, 42! The answer is 42! Right?


----------



## JetJockey

WOW! Great minds think alike!, But because I'm so anal I got 41.99999901. The reason I actually asked is that there is a local amateur wine making contest and they want to classify the wines on sweet-dry and ask for the RS, along with ABV, and of course the grape variety or fruit/other category.

I figured I should enter my first bottle ever made! I don't have high expectations - I'm the reason they put "Donation" on the bottom of all those raffle and lottery tickets! But, the popularity of this DB recipe has me optimistic.


----------



## DaveL

just for criousity why do you need to let clear before sweetening then let clear again? Can you sweeten at the stepf adding the finning agent?


----------



## Tess

Dave, My yeast pack arrived today in the mail. I want to start this tomorrow. They are so small, 5 grams. Is that how small they are supposed to be. This is my fist time. Iv only seen yeast pack in the store for baking. lol. I just want to check before I begin


----------



## cimbaliw

*Degassing the next batch...*

Wow, over the past 24 hours I've probably got an honest three hours into degassing my first batch of DB. I'm using a j'd plastic coat hanger for mechanical degassing and a medical vacuum pump for vacuum degassing (sorry Steve, it was no cost to me with Amazon points). I've still got a half of an inch of CO2 bubbles with the pump a -22mmHg. The must temp is 70f via heating pad. I've added the sorbate and metaB but not the sparkaloid. 

The bottom line is that I indulged a small taste and this stuff is going to be great!. Is there anything I can do with the next batch to decrease degassing time. I was wondering if racking to degas may speed things up a bit? The image below shows current state.

Thanks for all your help, this is a fun forum to be a part of.

BC


----------



## JetJockey

Cimbaliw,
I only have 1 batch of DB and a kit under my belt, but degassing has been my problem with both. I use a drill stir for mechanical degassing and the All-in-One Wine Pump for racking, transferring, degassing, filtering and bottling.

On my kit the manufacturer said only 2-3 minutes about 3-4 times to degas. I splash racked under vacuum 4 times. I still had CO2, then I drill stirred 3 times for 6-8 minutes. It was much better and I don't know if you ever get it all out.

My DB was similar in that I splash racked under vacuum 4 times. I then used the drill stir to get the rest out. I then vacuum filtered and still had some very large bubbles come up the racking cane, which is CO2 coming out under vacuum.

If you could get your temperature up to the mid 70's, the CO2 will come out easier!

I've asked several on this forum and they all say that each batch is different, even if it's the same recipe. Be careful with that amount of CO2 if using a drill stir, as you can agitate it and have a volcano decorate your wine area! Just keep stirring and vacuuming. I also asked how much CO2 is Too much, and the answer was it depends on your taste. A little too bitter or too much tingle on your tongue is too much.

I've attached a document from Wine Experts (kit manufacturer) that they sent be on degassing. A promo for their 'wine whip', but information that applies to any degassing. Wine Experts is NOT a fan of vacuum degassing their kits, they told me that using vacuum would nullify their warranty on the kit! 

I was at a winery today and tasted a Fredonia that had a slight tingle on my tongue. I asked the maker about it. He said that he didn't get all the CO2 out. I'm not a champagne fan, but the spicy Fredonia with a very little tingle was good enough for me to buy a couple bottles!

Like everything else in wines - it's up to your taste buds! Good Luck! 

View attachment Winexperts - Wine Whip Degassing.pdf


----------



## NashChic

I've done 2 batches of DB, but I'm definitely no expert (far from), and it's difficult to tell from the resolution I see on my screen, but those bubbles look a little bigger than the teeny CO2 bubbles I usually see when degassing. Have you tried putting a little in a container (maybe the one you take hydrometer readings in), covering it, giving it a good shake, & seeing if you hear a "puff" when you uncover it? I've heard you can actually pull other gasses than CO2 from the wine after degassing is complete... Shown by larger bubbles. I agree with the previous post as well... If it suits your taste, you can probably call it "done." Cheers to your DB and continued thanks to Dave (& Lon) for yummy recipes!!


----------



## DaveL

So last night I had a bottle. about 8 weeks old. It had a bubble gum flavor. Anyone else have this?


----------



## Tess

I started mine tonight my first gravity reading was 1.060 did I do something wrong?


----------



## DaveL

Tess said:


> I started mine tonight my first gravity reading was 1.060 did I do something wrong?



Check you Hydrometer. Fill your test cylinder with water. Should be 1.00
Stir more as you may not have fully disolved your sugar.


----------



## Tess

Dave, its the same. I may have lost count on the 20 cups of sugar by one cup. Could that be it?


----------



## Tess

I went ahead and added a cup and its reading correct now.


----------



## DaveL

Tess said:


> Dave, its the same. I may have lost count on the 20 cups of sugar by one cup. Could that be it?



Absolutely it could. But you should check first. Once you piut in too much sugar then you have to add liquid then youve watered down your mix or outgrown your primary.
20 cups is easy , 2, 5lb bags

Last night I broke my hydrometer, so this am I got out a spare, new hydrometer. Checked it when I got it out but not this am. I store mine in a bucket full of star san. This morning my reading was 1.072 so I added sugar. Then thought to recheck the hydrometer. It is reading off .1 so I now have a 1.86 batch. A little on the high side.

Good luck


----------



## ShepherdQ

I racked my first batch yesterday to get the wine off the fine lees in the secondary, and snuck a sampling in at the same time. I noticed a distinct yeasty sour flavour. It's partially masked by the acidity from the lemon, but I can tell it's there. Will this go away with a bit of aging or should I worry?


----------



## dangerdave

Tess said:


> I went ahead and added a cup and its reading correct now.


 
Sorry, Tess. I got a little busy with some truck repairs the past few days, and fell behind checking the posts. I'm glad DaveL got you tuned in. Great bunch of people here!

Good luck on the DB!


----------



## dangerdave

ShepherdQ said:


> I racked my first batch yesterday to get the wine off the fine lees in the secondary, and snuck a sampling in at the same time. I noticed a distinct yeasty sour flavour. It's partially masked by the acidity from the lemon, but I can tell it's there. Will this go away with a bit of aging or should I worry?


 
Is it in the clearing stage now, Rob, I presume? The best I can say is that this happens sometimes. I have had this happen, too. Newly fermented wines sometime display a yeasty component. Give it some time for the yeast to settle out completely, and it will be fine. Time is your friend.


----------



## ShepherdQ

Dave: I should have mentioned that I already used kieselsol and chitosan to clear, and they worked quite well. I'm going to give it another week to see if anything else precipitates out. Time is normally on my side but I have to leave for 3 1/2 months in April so I want to get this batch sorted out!

Thanks,


----------



## Dino466

Danger Dave - I got a problem - yeast never started - has not happened to me before. I did not have any yeast energizer but I started the yeast anyway on Monday nite. Nothing happened so Tuesday evening I bought some energizer and a heating belt. It is Wednesday morning and still nothing - how long should I wait and can I pitch in some more yeast?


----------



## dangerdave

My cutoff point usually 72 hours. I'd give it until late tomorrow, Dino. If it doesn't take off, pitch in some more yeast. Did you rehydrate or make a starter from the yeast? What yeast did you use?

Inquiring minds want to know!


----------



## DaveL

So I gave a coworker a bottle of DB. His wife wants to buy 4 bottles. Of course I cant sell him any but he does homebrew beer,,,Sooo.
I was glad to get get positve feedback.


----------



## JetJockey

I bottled my 1st batch, including one 1/2 gallon jug, of the basic DB recipe by Danger Dave. This was my first chance to have others sample it (I sneaked tastes at every stage myself). I had nothing but raving reviews. In fact I coerced a guy that adamantly said "I don't like wine and I won't drink it" to at least try it. After 2 1/2 glasses he is now a reformed wine drinker! With the comment that "I could really enjoy this stuff!

It doesn't get any better than that!

Thanks to all and especially Danger Dave!


----------



## Dino466

Dave, It started cooking last nite. I made 2 mistake - 1) Idid not hydrate the yeast - never for a kit so I missed that step. 2) the yeast enegizer really helped. 
The yeast was no 1118 it was the same company but I think it was something like 1328. I don't exactly remember the numbers. 
All started working about 18 hrs after I pitched in the enegizer and put the heat belt on it. 
Thanks, Dean


----------



## dangerdave

That's great, guys! Feedback is much appreciated. Conversions are anticipated. I've indoctrinated a few "non-wine drinkers" with the DB as well. Those who ask to buy some are given a grocery list and a place to order bottles. I tell them to bring me the goods and I'll make them some wine. If they're serious, they bring me the stuff. If not, I don't hear from them.

Glad it took off for you, Dean. Keep us posted along the way.

I started three more batches of wine yesterday, myself. Two DB: one with raisins and bananas, and one with some added oak (always trying new stuff). And a batch of one of my new favorates---blackberry---made with 12lbs of blackberries and no lemon juice (4 tsp acid blend for balance). Otherwise, it follows the same recipe as the DB. The first one turned out so good, I tried this one with some oak. I found the bags of frozen blackberries at Sam's Club.

I just love making wine!!! Wine on, people!


----------



## Dino466

It was 71B-1122 yeast - sorry - tried to remember it from a poor memory. But looked it up at home over lunch.


----------



## dangerdave

I have used that yeast before, Dean. It should work just fine. I plan to do some yeast comparisons some day---when I get around to it.






I just can't seem to find one!


----------



## Tess

Does this sound right. It day 5 in the primary. First reading was 1.070 temp 75. Today its 1.020 and the temp is 77. Its falling fast yesterday is read at 1.042. Just need some assurance that everything is going along well


----------



## Tess

just ordered all the chemicals I need for step four last night. I hope they get here before I need to rack


----------



## JetJockey

Tess,
Sounds like it is moving along quite well. My batch's SG for the first 10 days in the primary (I waited 3 days <1 to be sure it was dry) were:
1.077; 1.059; 1.049; 1.029; 1.015; 1.008; 1.002; 0.996; 0.991; and 0.991. (These SG's are corrected for my 60*F hydrometer.)

My fermentation was at 80*-82*F with a brew belt, until I took it off on day 8. Then it dropped to 72* by day 10. The fermentation goes quickly at these temperatures. I used EC-1118 yeast.


----------



## Tess

Thanks so much Jet. Im going to wait the tree days or sure!


----------



## Tess

I reached 1.000 today. Im going to wait the tree days but Im worried my stuff will not be here by then. I know it wont it hasnt even shipped yet. Im talking about the Potassium Metabisulfite and the Sparkolloid. Should I go ahead and rack in three days and add it when it gets here. Also, I had an open ferment. Lid setting on top. Now that the ferment is done should I seal it tight these next three days?


----------



## Tess

Tess said:


> I reached 1.000 today. Im going to wait the tree days but Im worried my stuff will not be here by then. I know it wont it hasnt even shipped yet. Im talking about the Potassium Metabisulfite and the Sparkolloid. Should I go ahead and rack in three days and add it when it gets here. Also, I had an open ferment. Lid setting on top. Now that the ferment is done should I seal it tight these next three days?



I just read it again its 1.002


----------



## Tripplett

Tess said:


> I reached 1.000 today. Im going to wait the tree days but Im worried my stuff will not be here by then. I know it wont it hasnt even shipped yet. Im talking about the Potassium Metabisulfite and the Sparkolloid. Should I go ahead and rack in three days and add it when it gets here. Also, I had an open ferment. Lid setting on top. Now that the ferment is done should I seal it tight these next three days?



Once it's finished fermenting time isn't going to hurt it. 
Snap the lid down and airlock it. You'll be fine letting it finish to dry. I think I let mine sit for a week before adding all the clearing stuff.


----------



## Tess

Tripplett said:


> Once it's finished fermenting time isn't going to hurt it.
> Snap the lid down and airlock it. You'll be fine letting it finish to dry. I think I let mine sit for a week before adding all the clearing stuff.



Thanks. I removed the fpack and the brew belt, snapped it down and put the air lock on. Its working. I think thats the better idea. I dont feel like opening it every day to get a reading. Im going to let it set till my stuff get here and then get a reading and continue. You have been a big help to me


----------



## Tripplett

One thing I have realized is it's kind of hard to mess this stuff up unless you really go crazy. It sounds like you are only talking a few days to a week at most. Once fermentation slows (about 1.0) the must is at risk - the important thing to do is to either 1) add K-Meda or 2) airlock. If your primary goes down to .994 under airlock and then you do step 4 I really don't think there's that big of harm. I always wait till I see three days of the same SG reading anyway.


----------



## Tripplett

Ok, DangerDave has inspired me to try a new blend for my second batch of DB. This time I am not adding any lemon (wife didn't really like it in the first batch). Instead i am adding 3-4 tsp. of acid blend (based on what I see Dave using in his other recipes). In addition to the 6 lbs. of Trader Joe's Berry Medley (raspberry, strawberry, blackberry, blueberry) I'm also adding 6 ripe bananas in their skins - cleaned and sliced as well as 1 lb. of dark raisins. Seems to me that's going to be one full strainer bag.
I also may add some or all of this quart jar of 100% "Just Black Cherry" that I found on the shelf. Depends on how it tastes.


----------



## Tess

I stopped by the winery just up the road from my house and They had everything I need. Except they didn't have Sparkaloid. They had #5 Isinglass


----------



## NashChic

Tripplett: Keep us posted how it turns out. I've made 2 (6gal) batches of Dave's original recipe... Enjoying a glass right now! The next time I make it I plan to try the bananas/raisins (and maybe a little oak). I would be curious about the addition of the cherry juice. It sounds like it would be delicious! Good luck


----------



## Tripplett

I had to take some of the liquid out and store it in the fridge. The juice was about 1 inch from the top of the pail. I would never be able to stir it and if it took off I would be in trouble. I will add it back later. I should probably start my own thread on this stuff since I'm mixing it up.


----------



## dangerdave

I have my first oaked DB in the primary right now. I'm going out of town for the week, so I'm going to rack it to a carboy under airlock and let it sit and go dry while I'm away.

I'm glad yours is going well, Tess.


----------



## nbwii

DOn't know if this has been asked and answered already but I need a quick answer. 
I just racked my 6 gal batch of DB but I came up short. What can I use to top up my carboy?


----------



## ShepherdQ

nbwii said:


> I just racked my 6 gal batch of DB but I came up short. What can I use to top up my carboy?



I ran into this as well on my first batch, so I'm interested to hear what people say. I used a good 15 second blast of Winelife to fill as much of the ullage as possible with a barrier gas (Winelife is a mixture of Nitrogen and CO2).


----------



## Tripplett

To top off you can use water or (preferably) a like wine. I used a berry wine I found at the local grocery store .


----------



## wildcat2013

cimbaliw said:


> Wow, over the past 24 hours I've probably got an honest three hours into degassing my first batch of DB. I'm using a j'd plastic coat hanger for mechanical degassing and a medical vacuum pump for vacuum degassing (sorry Steve, it was no cost to me with Amazon points). I've still got a half of an inch of CO2 bubbles with the pump a -22mmHg. The must temp is 70f via heating pad. I've added the sorbate and metaB but not the sparkaloid.
> 
> The bottom line is that I indulged a small taste and this stuff is going to be great!. Is there anything I can do with the next batch to decrease degassing time. I was wondering if racking to degas may speed things up a bit? The image below shows current state.
> 
> Thanks for all your help, this is a fun forum to be a part of.
> 
> BC




I've got a 3 gallon batch of DB that I've been trying to degass for a week. It just seems like there is an infinite supply of CO2. I'm using a stir rod mounted on a drill and I'm doing it for about 30 minutes at a time. My SG has been at .990 for over a week and I did stabilize so I know fermentation is done. If there is this much CO2 in a 3 gallon batch I can't imagine what would be in a 6 gallon batch. It's in a plastic carboy so I can't vacuum degas. I might get a carboy heater to see if raising the temperature will speed up the process.


----------



## ShawnDTurner

Use White Zinfindel for top off.


----------



## Tripplett

Wildcat yours seems as gassy as mine was. If you look at my threads you will see a post I started on mine being so gassy. I thought I had it all and bottled. The result was a blown cork a month later. Just raise it to at least 75 and go to town. I actually used a mix-stir the first time around. However I think I'm getting more out with the spoon now. I degassed over three days and I think I got it all now but I'm going to let it sit a month and test it. You could also filter or use a pump to rack, both help degas. Sadly I have neither equipment a yet.


----------



## Tess

I racked and degassed mine last night to a bucket instead of a carboy. I used a drill and a whip and really never seen as much foam and bubbles as I thought I would. I degassed till the cordless drill about died. Racked it straight away into a glass carboy. Its just setting there. lol...I will test it in a week. Maybe shake some up in a test tube or something after I back sweeten


----------



## Tess

I did notice one thing I did wrong last night. I added 1 tsp instead of 1 tbs of sparkaloid. Should I add more now or just wait till I rack again


----------



## JetJockey

wildcat2013 said:


> It's in a plastic carboy so I can't vacuum degas. I might get a carboy heater to see if raising the temperature will speed up the process.



Wildcat,
You can vacuum rack/degas FROM a plastic BB carboy into a glass carboy. You can't vacuum rack/degas TO a plastic carboy! I have some of each. When I started, I only had a BB and one glass. Using the All-in-One, I vacuum racked FROM the BB carboy to the glass carboy and then siphoned from the glass back to the plastic. I did this 3 times to degas. My DB was very gassy as well. When racking, I stopped when each carboy was about 1/2 full and used the drill stir in each. Being 1/2 full gave me the room to really let 'er rip without a volcano. I had to switch to an electric drill because I couldn't keep the batteries charged enough. I degassed until I got very little of a puff when shaking in a jigger glass for a puff test. It took me 4 splash rackings with the vacuum pump and drill stirring at least 10-12 minutes in between racking cycles to almost fully degas. I also used the AIOWP to rack, filter, and bottle. Each racking and use of the AIOWP further removed any remaining gas.

I keep my DB between 73-80*F throughout the fermentation, racking, filtering, and bottling. This helps in the degassing as well.

Good luck!


----------



## wineforfun

Tess said:


> I did notice one thing I did wrong last night. I added 1 tsp instead of 1 tbs of sparkaloid. Should I add more now or just wait till I rack again



I would just wait and see. It really depends on how much of a hurry you are in. It will clear in time on its own. If you want it to clear quicker, I would add it again at next racking.


----------



## Tess

Do you add more Potassium Sorbate when you rack?


----------



## Tess

I was thinking of try this was the frozen blackberry's and instead of water us apple juice to get a blackJack use the wine cal to get my sugar correct


----------



## wineforfun

I only add K-meta and sorbate one time, with the initial racking.

Not sure what you are saying in your second post.


----------



## DaveL

*quadberry color pics?*

Can somebody post a pic of a finished bottle of Quadberry, straw, peach pinnaple, Bannanna? Id like to see the color.


----------



## wildcat2013

JetJockey said:


> Wildcat,
> You can vacuum rack/degas FROM a plastic BB carboy into a glass carboy. You can't vacuum rack/degas TO a plastic carboy! I have some of each. When I started, I only had a BB and one glass. Using the All-in-One, I vacuum racked FROM the BB carboy to the glass carboy and then siphoned from the glass back to the plastic. I did this 3 times to degas. My DB was very gassy as well. When racking, I stopped when each carboy was about 1/2 full and used the drill stir in each. Being 1/2 full gave me the room to really let 'er rip without a volcano. I had to switch to an electric drill because I couldn't keep the batteries charged enough. I degassed until I got very little of a puff when shaking in a jigger glass for a puff test. It took me 4 splash rackings with the vacuum pump and drill stirring at least 10-12 minutes in between racking cycles to almost fully degas. I also used the AIOWP to rack, filter, and bottle. Each racking and use of the AIOWP further removed any remaining gas.
> 
> I keep my DB between 73-80*F throughout the fermentation, racking, filtering, and bottling. This helps in the degassing as well.
> 
> Good luck!



I don't have a glass carboy so that wasn't an option. I think I finally got my batch to degass. I splash racked and stirred with the drill again and it looks like most of the CO2 is finally gone. Just waiting for it to clear now so I can get it bottled.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm back home and catching up on my posts. Glad everyone is getting along well.


----------



## jmarx

After making and bottling a 6-gallon batch, my wife decides the lemon flavor is overwhelming. I followed the original recipe of 2-48 oz lemon juice so next time I'll reduce to 1 like in your latest version. Is there anything I can do to fix this batch, such as dump all bottles into a carboy and add juice? Thanks for a great recipe - I'll be making another batch this weekend!


----------



## dangerdave

That's what I did when I first started with this recipe, jmarx. However, don't give up on that first batch just yet. Make another with half the lemon and let that first one set. Open a bottle and try it in about a month or so. You will be amazed at how much it mellows in the bottle.

Trust me!


----------



## jmarx

Thanks Dave, I'll let it sit for a while - in the meantime I'm looking forward to another batch! Thank you for not only this recipe but for your time and patience for rookies like me. That, in itself, makes this hobby more enjoyable.


----------



## dangerdave

Just paying it forward, my friend.


----------



## ShepherdQ

Dave, have you ever let a batch age in the carboy? I simply haven't had time to bottle the batch I racked almost a month ago, I'm wondering if it will have mellowed as much as it would had I bottled it. I ask because based on him much lemon I added I think mine will get the same review from 'the boss' as jmarx's did!


----------



## jrvernon

Danger, ever make up an f-pack to back sweeten? If so, what did you use? I enjoy my QB, but would love a fuller flavor.


----------



## DaveL

give it 2 months from when you mixed it. The tartness will fade and the fruit will come forward some. It is not a heavy bodied wine. After all it only has 6lbs of fruit.


----------



## dangerdave

@jrvernon: I once made a batch without lemon. I thought it came out kinda light on flavor. To boost the fruit flavor, I took an addditonal 3lbs bag of the same fruit I made the wine from (blueberry/blackberry/raspberry blend), and squeezed out as much of the juice as I could. I ended up with a quart of thick rich juice. I added this to the six gallon batch with good results.

@Rob: I have not tried aging a batch in the carboy more than a week or so. The demand is too great! It always gets bottled right away. I would say you should get the same results by leaving it undisturbed in a carboy. Taste is and see!


----------



## Tess

dangerdave said:


> I think I have neglected to add the Dragon Blood Recipe the recipe section, so here it is. PM me if you have any questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the newest version (v3.0): _Please read recipe completely before beginning!_
> 
> 
> *"DRAGON BLOOD"*
> _*Silver Award winner at the 39th Annual Cellarmasters Amateur Winemaking Competition*_
> 
> *FROM DANGERDAVE'S EASY PEESY (SKEETER PEE) RECIPE*
> 
> *Ingredients: For a six gallon batch:*
> 
> Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order:
> 1 bottle (48 oz) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _if you want to recude the acid level use less._
> Water to about five gallons
> 20 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG of around 1.075 after filling to 6 gallons below*): _use more/less sugar for high/lower desired final ABV. Stir sugar until _completely_ desolved._
> 1 tsp. tannin (stir)
> 3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
> 1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
> 3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
> Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well
> Test SG (looking for a SG around 1.075) _Note: The natural sugars from the fruit will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!_
> 6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--a_vailable in most grocery store freezer sections_), frozen then thawed, in a nylon fine mesh bag (tied shut), placed in primary (add any extra juice from the fruit as well): _Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme.__ May also toss fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and racking._
> Cover primary
> Place brew belt: _Keep temp in 70F-80F range._
> Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...
> 
> Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
> 1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (starter, per yeast directions): _Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains may also work well._
> Stir Primary Vigorously!
> 
> Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
> Check temp
> Check specific gravity
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove friut pack: _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket._
> Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must._
> Replace fruit pack
> Cover primary
> 
> Step 4: When specific gravity (SG) reaches <1.000, do the following:
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: _Discard fruit._
> Note: _Some wine makers suggest three consecutive days with SG below 1.000 to insure the wine is finished fermenting. I encourage this if you are not in a hurry to finish your batch. In addition, leaving the wine undisturbed (don't stir) for this time, will allow the sediment to settle out and facilitate more rapid clearing._
> Rack the wine to cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy, leaving the gross lees (the stuff in the bottom) undisturbed.
> Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (stir)
> Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (stir)
> Degas very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough!_
> Add Sparkolloid* (or other cleaing agent): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered for about 5-10 minutes. Add hot mixture to carboy._
> Allow to clear undistrubed for no less than 1 week
> 
> Step 5: When wine is clear:
> Carefully rack off of lees into cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy
> Add 4-5 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely disolved). This will give a SG of around 1.010: _Add more or less sugar to taste. Remember! The sugars will blend with the berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!_
> Allow wine to clear free of all sediment: _This may or may not require more racking over the next few weeks._
> 
> Step 6: When wine is completely clear:
> Filter if desired
> Bottle in clear bottles (because it's beautiful)
> Note: _Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!_



I will be at step 5 tomorrow! I will rack into carboy... but my temp in the basement is like 65. What I want to know is?? if I need to rack and degass one more time do I need to attache the brew belt again and bring up the temp ti degass?? Let me know!! Thanks


----------



## dangerdave

Do you think you got all the gas out, Tess? Is it clear? If you degassed thoroughly in Step 4, you will be fine. Do a puff test and see if you get more than a little gas. If you are not familiar with this test, just put a little of the wine in a small container, cover tightly with your hand, shake, hold close to your ear and listen for a puff of air when you release the seal. A little puff is ok. If you get a bunch, then yes, you will need to rack it off those lees, warm it up and degas some more. Excess gas would likely keep the wine from clearing quickly. If it's clear, then you are probably ok.

If you think it's good, then proceed to Step 5. Your getting close, now! Thanks for trying the recipe, and good luck!


----------



## ShepherdQ

Bottled mine yesterday, and got a resounding approval from my wife. It tastes exactly as people have described it, with slightly stringer lemon than I'd like right now but it's perfect for my wife's taste.

One problem: there's still a bit of a haze, which didn't come out despite almost a month of carboy aging. I'm leaving in a week for 4 months, so I didn't really have time to futz with it before bottling. I dunno if the picture is good enough, but does anyone think it looks like pectic haze? 




(BTW: I know that's not a proper cork, this is an extra bottle that will be consumed immediately!)

I'm lucky my wife isn't a purist: I mentioned the haze and she said "I don't care, it tastes great."


----------



## Tess

dangerdave said:


> Do you think you got all the gas out, Tess? Is it clear? If you degassed thoroughly in Step 4, you will be fine. Do a puff test and see if you get more than a little gas. If you are not familiar with this test, just put a little of the wine in a small container, cover tightly with your hand, shake, hold close to your ear and listen for a puff of air when you release the seal. A little puff is ok. If you get a bunch, then yes, you will need to rack it off those lees, warm it up and degas some more. Excess gas would likely keep the wine from clearing quickly. If it's clear, then you are probably ok.
> 
> If you think it's good, then proceed to Step 5. Your getting close, now! Thanks for trying the recipe, and good luck!



No thank you!! I will do that. Its looking very clear and beautiful right now. I cant wait to taste it and I will do the puff test thanks for all your help DD


----------



## Tess

well I put a little in a tall shot glass and got a pretty good puff so Im bring the temp up to degas again. Man I took a tiny taste and its nasty lol I hope it improves with sugar and age


----------



## Tess

It taste like it smelled while it was fermenting. Yeasty maybe??


----------



## Tess

OK big difference!! lol I still have gas though. Iv degassed till I just cant anymore. I put the brew belt on to bring the temp up some and I will go at it again tomorrow morning. Im tired. Taste great though. I wished I had added a little less sugar but the family will love it if I can ever get it degassed lol


----------



## dangerdave

Residual CO2 can make a good wine taste aweful! Glad the degassing improved it. Persistence will give you a good product.


----------



## dangerdave

ShepherdQ said:


> Bottled mine yesterday, and got a resounding approval from my wife. It tastes exactly as people have described it, with slightly stringer lemon than I'd like right now but it's perfect for my wife's taste.
> 
> One problem: there's still a bit of a haze, which didn't come out despite almost a month of carboy aging. I'm leaving in a week for 4 months, so I didn't really have time to futz with it before bottling. I dunno if the picture is good enough, but does anyone think it looks like pectic haze?
> 
> (BTW: I know that's not a proper cork, this is an extra bottle that will be consumed immediately!)
> 
> I'm lucky my wife isn't a purist: I mentioned the haze and she said "I don't care, it tastes great."


 
Glad your wife likes it. The lemon will mellow with time. If it's pectin haze, it will not likely clear on it's own. If nobody cares, don't sweat it! If you really _need_ to know, then open a bottle, add a tiny pinch of pectic enzyme, give it a little shake, stuff that funky cork stopper in it and wait a few days. If it clears, you'll know that was the problem.


----------



## Dino466

Dave, if you filter will that get rid of the pectin haze.
Thanks, Dean


----------



## dangerdave

Dino466 said:


> Dave, if you filter will that get rid of the pectin haze.
> Thanks, Dean


 
No. If I am not mistaken, those long protien strings are too small to filter out. They need to be broken down with the pectic enzyme. It works great, and usually within a few days to a week. It seems that 99.9% of my haze problems have been due to pectin, so I just add some in if the wine is still cloudy after clearing. It does not affect the taste, nor change the wine in any other way.


----------



## Dino466

Ok- it has only been 2 weeks - my first batch - so a little impatient. The skeeter pee that I made a week later is clear as a bell. 
Thanks, Dean


----------



## dangerdave

I've even had kits that developed pectin haze, for whatever reason. Sounds to me that's what you have. Hit it with some enzyme, and watch it clear! Some folks add pectic enzyme to all their wines.


----------



## Dino466

I have not racked yet - I will rack first and then add the enzyme? I did put a heat belt on it and degassed again - nothing up oxygen. 
Thanks


----------



## Reilly

Here may be a stupid question but - when you are checking the SG daily do you put the sanitized hydrometer in the must or use a thief to pull some out? 

I've got my first batch of DB going in the primary and pitched the yeast on 3/24.


----------



## Tripplett

Reilly said:


> Here may be a stupid question but - when you are checking the SG daily do you put the sanitized hydrometer in the must or use a thief to pull some out?
> 
> I've got my first batch of DB going in the primary and pitched the yeast on 3/24.



I do both. During the early stages of primary I just float it in the must. When it gets down to the ending stages and I care more about accuracy and color I use a thief. With the thief you get to also hold it up to the light to see color and clarity if that's your thing. For secondary and later in a carboy it's easier to use a thief with the narrow neck of a carboy.


----------



## mikeslag

Anyway finished mine a couple weeks ago and haven't had a chance to post but it turned out perfectly!

Here is what we used to clear it up and it was crystal clear within like 3 hours of adding this in. It was amazing!




And here is the final product, no labels or anything yet but it is a delightful wine for sure. We love it! Great recipe!


----------



## lonesomechicken

I entered a bottle in a local competition. It finished 3rd overall out of 150+. My grape did not do so well. I did not use all the lemon and used another bag of frozen fruit.


----------



## dangerdave

The color is perfect, Mike. Excellent job!

And lonesomechicken, congrats on the competition placement. Such things build confidence!


----------



## NashChic

I've made (2) 6gal batches of DB thus far and I'm ready to start another. This time I think I will make the blueberry version instead of the triple berry (if I remember correctly, Dave calls it Jet Blue).

My plan is to follow the DB recipe as I have before, but substitute 6lb frozen blueberries for the mixed berries. I'd also like to try adding bananas, raisins, & a little oak in primary. I'm thinking 4 peeled/sliced bananas (that's what I have on hand), 12oz regular dark raisins, and a handful of French medium toast oak. Thoughts? Suggestions?


----------



## dangerdave

That sounds perect, NashChic. Go for it! I've got some Jet Blue I've been drinking that's almost a year old. Very smoooooth!


----------



## nbwii

Here is my first attempt. I followed Dave's recipe except I use 32oz of fresh squeezed orange juice and 8oz of lemon and I didn't have to back sweeten (for my taste).


----------



## cohenhouse77

Okay Dave. Try a 50% - 50% blend of your Rosso and Dragons Blood. OMG.


----------



## winointraining

Well i started some dragon blood today. pitching the yeast tomorrow. that stuff tastes amazing just like it is.pour it on a flip-flop and you could eat it


----------



## dangerdave

cohenhouse77 said:


> Okay Dave. Try a 50% - 50% blend of your Rosso and Dragons Blood. OMG.


 
Really?! My Rosso is still aging in it's carboy, but that does sound good. How does it taste?


----------



## cohenhouse77

dangerdave said:


> Really?! My Rosso is still aging in it's carboy, but that does sound good. How does it taste?



Dinner with friends tonight and we offered both, along with our Tropical. All were hits, but I poured the two together and then that was all everyone wanted. It added depth and thickness to the Dragons Blood, and a berry lingering zing to the Rosso. I may blend a gallon or two of my next finished batches and bottle them that way.


----------



## nbwii

My final product:


----------



## Tess

thank you Dave. I bottled today!!


----------



## dangerdave

Those are both great labels---and beautiful wines---nbwii and Tess! Nice job you two! The DB craze continues!


----------



## DirtyDawg10

Very nice!


----------



## Morgan

Does anyone test your pH when you make Dave's recipe? I was curious if my pH of 2.97 is unusually low or pretty typical. My specific gravity is 1.110 so I may dilute a little bit anyway.


----------



## dangerdave

No, Morgan. I have never tested the pH of any of my wines. I make them according to taste. Two 48oz bottles of lemon juice was too acidic for me, so I went to one. Just right!


----------



## JimC

So Dave did you like the move to the Cuvée yeast?


----------



## cohenhouse77

So in case you haven't seen the other thread, I have a batch of strawberry going that spontaneously erupted in fermentation the day before I had scheduled to pitch yeast. It is looking as smelling great. I am gathering ingredients now for the end of the week because after racking, I am definitely splitting the slurry to start a strawberry SP by itself, and then also another batch of DB. Wild feral yeast....which will make a Feral Dragon?


----------



## dangerdave

JimC said:


> So Dave did you like the move to the Cuvée yeast?


 
I've been negligent in my comparisons, Jim, in that I have not tried them side by side. I'll do so soon (I hope) and let you know.


----------



## jvr06

I started a batch of DB and it does smell great so far. It's fermenting pretty good now and when I'm stirring it up I just want to drink it already, LOL!


----------



## UBB

The wife has been on me to make another batch of DB for this summer. So I started it today and didn't deviate to much from the original recipe:
5gal batch.
approx 40oz of RealLemon 
1 3lb bag of Sunrise Grower 'Triple Blend' (Strawberry, Wild Blueberry & Raspberry) found at Walmart
1 1/2 bags (4.5lbs) Wyers Triple Berry (Blackberry, Blueberry, Raspberry)
4 sliced banana's
22 cups of sugar to S.G. 1.082 (will check S.G. again after 24 hrs)
3tsp liquid tannin
4tsp Nutrient
3tsp Energizer 
3 tsp Pectic Enzyme

Should make for a nice hot summer day cocktail.


----------



## wineforfun

Thought I would report back on a bottle of DB I just drank. It was made with the original recipe and was from my first ever batch . It had been in the bottle for 4 months. It tasted awesome and so smooth. Compared to drinking a bottle from this batch that was only 1 month old, night and day. It has almost lost all the acidity from the lemon juice and really turned into a great wine. 
I have been making all my latest DB batches with 1/2 the lemon juice but may go back to the original...................of course, you have to be able to let the bottles sit for 4+ months. 

Again, thanks to Dave and Lon.


----------



## Dend78

wineforfun said:


> you have to be able to let the bottles sit for 4+ months.



im only allowed to make 200 gallons a year how am i supposed to let it age for that long 

  

so what you are saying is i shouldn't use my racking cane as a straw? 

I actually have some from my first batch i made its about ehh 8 months old, im gonna have to take a sample soon just to see how it turned out.


----------



## wineforfun

dend,
you will be very surprised compared to what it is like when only a week or month old. 

Call your senator and get that amount upped to around 400 gal./year.


----------



## Chiumanfu

For the "Especial" variant do you add bananas with peels or without?

Mods, I think it's time this one was stickied.


----------



## Morgan

Just racked my batch to carboy. I already added kmeta to protect during transfer but no sorbate yet. Once it's clear I was considering carbonating a few beer bottles with priming sugar. I don't plan on back sweetening. Is that little bit of kmeta going to inhibit carbonating? If it goes completely clear is there enough yeast left to restart fermentation enough to get carbonation? Thanks Dave for the recipe, I've been wanting to try this one for awhile!


----------



## TedLarsen

Okay....I'm aboard! I started a batch last night. It's already beautiful.

I added raisins and bananas a la "especial;" and I added some oak in the primary ferment. I was not able to get the standard Wymans triple-berry at Wal-Mart, so I substituted blueberry-strawberry-mango chunks. I also added a pound of strawberry, and a pound of blackberry (as much to enrich the color as anything).

I'll post when it's done. Thanks, Dave!


----------



## wineforfun

Did you just peel banana and put in fruit bag whole, with other berries?


----------



## TedLarsen

In my case, I did! I have some banana wine working right now in which I cut the bananas, peel and all, into little discs; but for this I peeled the bananas, cut the fruit and lobbed the slices into the bag along with the other fruit.


----------



## wineforfun

Thank you. I will give that a go with my next batch.


----------



## ShawnDTurner

Peel the bananas and place them in whole, no need to dice they will dissolve in a few days. This will add body and mouth feel without imparting flavor.


----------



## dangerdave

Like all the great variations! You guys are awesome!


----------



## JetJockey

Dave,
How did your raisin, bannana 7 oak work out? Do you have your perfected recipe posted? I've never used oak before so need the instructions on how to add that as well.

I entered my 1st triple berry batch in a local contest under fruit wine - semi-dry (back sweetened to your SG recommendation). Everyone loves this. Appears I need to make a drier batch for the dry wine overs!

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## jeranis

So my Dragon Blood (sg .996) smells a little, rancid. Just a little. 

This is my first batch of this stuff, and first batch with real fruit in it.
Bought the berries, 4/3, kept them in the package in the fridge till 4/6. Mixed up all the ingredients on the 6th as the directions said minus 4 cups of sugar (og 1.065 wanted a little less boozy). Set the heater for 75 degrees. Made a yeast starter with ec1118, added must slowly till I had a half gallon fermenting VERY strongly. Added the main bucket and it took off like a rocket. 

First few days were thick purple sludge which I stirred with a sanitized spoon and squeezed the bag with sanitized (heh) hands. The last few days the bubbles turned pinker and the sludge diminished. This was the point where I started to notice the slightly off smell. It reached 1.00 yesterday and I pulled out the berries squeezing one last time, and discarded them. Today the gravity is .996, there is no scum on the top and very few bubbles from the yeasties. Fermentation is near wrapped up clearly.

I think what it needs it time, but Ive never brewed with fruit so I am anxious.


----------



## dangerdave

Well, Bob, I'm still learning, too. It was definately oaky when it got dry. I back-sweetened yesterday. My guess is that it will mellow over time, just as usual. I added half a cup of untoasted American oak powder to the primary. I have toasted French oak, too, but didn't use any on this batch. The untoast oak is much more pungent. Next time, I will had half as much. Others have used oak on their dry wines, or when racking to secondary. I think it's another one of those "to each his/her own" catagories.

Give yours some time, jeranis---if that's your _real_ name (LOL!). It sounds like you made it just right. I'd let it sit for a few more days---just to be sure---then proceed.


----------



## Dend78

yeah for sure let it sit it will be fine it always smells a lil funky but it will go away and leave you with the fruit smell


----------



## jeranis

Whos real name might it be?


----------



## JimC

Okay I am excited as I started my 1st batch of Dragon Blood Sunday, 4/14... I am getting ahead of myself but here is my 1st label mockup!


----------



## wineforfun

Awesome label.


----------



## dangerdave

Very nice, Jim! I like it!


----------



## suecasa

Hey Dave … can you just clarify … on my product packages it says to use k-met at 1/8 tsp per gallon and you say to use 1/4tsp total for 6 gallons. on the sorbate it says use 1/4 tsp per gallon and you have us using 3tps for the 6 gallons. did i miss an explanation along the way??


----------



## Tripplett

suecasa said:


> Hey Dave &hellip; can you just clarify &hellip; on my product packages it says to use k-met at 1/8 tsp per gallon and you say to use 1/4tsp total for 6 gallons. on the sorbate it says use 1/4 tsp per gallon and you have us using 3tps for the 6 gallons. did i miss an explanation along the way??



I wondered about the sorbate myself. As for the k-met I figure this stuff isn't going to last long enough to matter but I'm curious on that one too. Thanks for bringing this up.


----------



## Tess

JimC said:


> Okay I am excited as I started my 1st batch of Dragon Blood Sunday, 4/14... I am getting ahead of myself but here is my 1st label mockup!



Love it!!!


----------



## Tripplett

Another question... Are you guys drinking this chilled or warm? For me it's chilled but I'd be curious if anyone is drinking this warmer.


----------



## Tess

I drink all mine a little chilled. I know, Im uncouth but its the way I like it and thats all that important right?


----------



## JimC

I was jumping around different threads and came across the back sweetening with Honey vs. White Sugar. I am reading this smooth's things out more? Since this is my 1st batch should I just go Sugar or does this help mellow the lemon faster? Also I was reading the Raisins and Banana's in a batch helps smooth as well as a Honey batch (15lbs) to start instead of the 20 cups of White Sugar (10lbs). So many choices what is the consensus?


----------



## dangerdave

*Sue*, it would appear the sulfite and sorbate come in different strengths. I have had sulfite from two different manufacturers, with two different measurements on the instructions. I wuld follow the instructions on your ingredients.

*Tripplett*, I add sulfite to mine because I do stash some bottles for aging. The one year old bottles of DB are to die for! 

*Tess*, I like to drink mine chilled. It seems to bring out the fruitiness even more. From each batch, I fill up several gallon jugs and put the in the fridge. The rest gets bottled. My wife gets bags of frozen fruit from Walmart (peach/pineapple/mango/strawberry), adds a handful to a Ball jar, and pours the chilled DB over it. Drink the wine, eat the fruit. Win-win!


----------



## dangerdave

JimC said:


> I was jumping around different threads and came across the back sweetening with Honey vs. White Sugar. I am reading this smooth's things out more? Since this is my 1st batch should I just go Sugar or does this help mellow the lemon faster? Also I was reading the Raisins and Banana's in a batch helps smooth as well as a Honey batch (15lbs) to start instead of the 20 cups of White Sugar (10lbs). So many choices what is the consensus?


 
I have not tried back sweetening with honey, but some others have (_pumpkinman_---Tom---for one). I have made a DB melomel (honey in the primary instead of sugar), although in the end, I could scarcely tell them from the original. The last three batches I made were DB Especial! with bananas and raisins in the primary. I think they are great! I don't have the most refined pallet, so the difference to me is practically indistinguishable.

My wife, however, wants me to return to the original recipe!  She is my inspiration, so you know what I'll be making.


----------



## wildcat2013

I just bottled a 3 gallon batch of DB and I have to say it definitely has some "bite". Does it tend to mellow after it ages for a while? I'm really hoping so.


----------



## Dend78

yeah that bite goes away after a bit seems to be about a month or so and it smooths out


----------



## JimC

Okay just racked to 5 gallon from 6 gallon after racking, sorbating meta, and super kleener last weekend. It looks nice and clear. I can't say that the picture does it justice!

Now time to back sweeten


----------



## JimC

Okay this back sweeting is driving me crazy... I am going to take a 5 gallon carboy from .990 to 1.10 so that should just be 4 cups, Nice and easy. Well I am trying to test on 750 ML bottle which is ~1/5 of a gallon. I mixed up 8oz of Sugar in well only 3 oz of water... don't ask.... I came out with a little of 6oz of syrup and took to the best I could 1/5 of that (1.2 oz). Sound right? Now here is the weird part. I poured the sugar in then the wine on top and got some fizzy head and bubble when I shook it up. Is this normal? I was pretty sure I degassed last weekend very well racking it with allinone and then a drill wand not getting any fizz with the drill wand. I racked today off lees with allinone and did not see fizz... but I got a lot of bubbles when mixing with the sugar..... Then I used one of those temporary pressure corks that you can suck all the air out of the bottle and wine to store it and got bubbles off the bottom... HMM...


----------



## wildcat2013

JimC said:


> Okay this back sweeting is driving me crazy... I am going to take a 5 gallon carboy from .990 to 1.10 so that should just be 4 cups, Nice and easy. Well I am trying to test on 750 ML bottle which is ~1/5 of a gallon. I mixed up 8oz of Sugar in well only 3 oz of water... don't ask.... I came out with a little of 6oz of syrup and took to the best I could 1/5 of that (1.2 oz). Sound right? Now here is the weird part. I poured the sugar in then the wine on top and got some fizzy head and bubble when I shook it up. Is this normal? I was pretty sure I degassed last weekend very well racking it with allinone and then a drill wand not getting any fizz with the drill wand. I racked today off lees with allinone and did not see fizz... but I got a lot of bubbles when mixing with the sugar..... Then I used one of those temporary pressure corks that you can suck all the air out of the bottle and wine to store it and got bubbles off the bottom... HMM...



I can tell you from experience that this wine creates a lot of CO2 and is very difficult to degass. I only made a 3 gallon batch and it took me almost a week to finally get all of the gas out of it. It's very likely you still have some degassing to do.


----------



## dangerdave

Even amongst batches made the exact same way, the amount of degassing required can very. Nice and clear, though. Lovely!


----------



## FABulousWines

JimC said:


> Okay just racked to 5 gallon from 6 gallon after racking, sorbating meta, and super kleener last weekend. It looks nice and clear. I can't say that the picture does it justice!
> 
> Now time to back sweeten



If you are saying that it looks better that the pic then I will be over soon to have a glass.  Does it get much better than this?


----------



## jeranis

I think fermentation kicked off a little in the Dragon Blood I bottled last weekend.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/onsowokjffdx9zm/20130504_163522.jpg
I dont have a clear picture, but it was pretty.

3 weeks ago I added 3 tsp potassium sorbate and 6 campden tabs and sparkolloid to my 6 gallon batch. It cleared over the next week and I then added 4 cups of sugar. The next weekend it was still clear and dark red, so i bottled to 12oz corona beer bottles. (2 weeks after stabilization and 1 week after backsweetening). 

This weekend, I noticed the bottles were slightly hazy, with the haze being suspended. I opened one and a tiny puff happened. A few days later, the haze seems to have sunk to the bottom and a fresh bottle puffs, with the same force as before. It didnt seem to grow more gaseous and it definately doesnt seem carbonated yet.

I thought a week with sugar would be enough to see if any fermentation came back but maybe not? I will keep a close eye on the bottles (by drinking them of course).


----------



## dangerdave

Hmm. I haven't had that kind of suspended sediment before, jeranis. Interesting. If it falls to the bottom, then it's left over sediment. I've begun filtering mine to prevent such problems. Unless you are willing to let it sit for several months to clear before bottling, you'll get some sediment over time.

A little puff when openning is ok, but---like you said---keep an eye on those while you drink them.


----------



## jeranis

It has now fallen to the bottom. Funny, when i bottled it, there was NO haze. Tonights bottle poofed the same amount as the one before it. No extra carbonation as of yet.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i only have 5 gallon carboy, can i omit one lemon bottle and 1 gallon water.


----------



## Dend78

yeah just cut the total ingredients


----------



## dangerdave

Here is the updated version of my "Wine Made Easy" pdf file containing the current revised recipe for *Dragon Blood*. Download and enjoy! 

View attachment Wine_Made_Easy 2.0.pdf


----------



## wildcat2013

jeranis said:


> I think fermentation kicked off a little in the Dragon Blood I bottled last weekend.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/onsowokjffdx9zm/20130504_163522.jpg
> I dont have a clear picture, but it was pretty.
> 
> 3 weeks ago I added 3 tsp potassium sorbate and 6 campden tabs and sparkolloid to my 6 gallon batch. It cleared over the next week and I then added 4 cups of sugar. The next weekend it was still clear and dark red, so i bottled to 12oz corona beer bottles. (2 weeks after stabilization and 1 week after backsweetening).
> 
> This weekend, I noticed the bottles were slightly hazy, with the haze being suspended. I opened one and a tiny puff happened. A few days later, the haze seems to have sunk to the bottom and a fresh bottle puffs, with the same force as before. It didnt seem to grow more gaseous and it definately doesnt seem carbonated yet.
> 
> I thought a week with sugar would be enough to see if any fermentation came back but maybe not? I will keep a close eye on the bottles (by drinking them of course).



I just checked the batch I bottled a few weeks ago and I've noticed there is some sediment at the bottom of each. It was perfectly clear when I bottled it. This is definitely a tricky wine to make.


----------



## JetJockey

DangerDave,
On behalf of all of us wine makers that are enjoying the process significantly due to your contributions - THANK YOU!

This document is fantastic. It makes it easy to reference with everything in one file. I would love to have your recommendations on how, the effects (smoother taste, etc.), and the quantity of adding oak, raisins, and bananas to these recipes.


----------



## DirtyDawg10

wildcat2013 said:


> I just checked the batch I bottled a few weeks ago and I've noticed there is some sediment at the bottom of each. It was perfectly clear when I bottled it. This is definitely a tricky wine to make.



I had the same problem with one of mine. I think it is more a problem of going from carboy to bottle too quickly. Some of the fine sediment takes a while to truly come out of suspension in the wine. Any batch I have left in the carboy several months has had no issue with this.


----------



## CBell

Mine dropped a little sediment a week or two post bottling but a month later and it has all gone back into suspension except or 1 or 2 bottles. Bottle shock maybe? Either way, my next batch will stay in carboy for a few weeks after I think it's bottle-ready


----------



## TommBomb

can you back sweeten say, 2 months after aging in a carboy?


----------



## CBell

Tom you certainly can. You can age for years before backsweetening if you want. Just add sorbate at backsweetening time


----------



## jamesngalveston

I am going to try mine next week...if it is good as all says.
I am buying a 3 gallon bulk frig dispenser and filling it up.
I may buy some box wines, empty them and fill with dragon blood for the 4th of july party I have ever year.
Thanks.....


----------



## JimC

Finally Got my labels in and on


----------



## CBell

Enjoying a glass, or two (okay, so a bottle but it's pretty low APV) of my Dragon Blood! Needed to do some bench tasting at 3 weeks. At room temp it is a little astringent and acidic, but with a cube of ice, it's a great gulper. Absolutely delicious! Thanks again Dave!


----------



## dangerdave

I am, as always, very glad everyone enjoys the recipe. As for the sediment problem. If you employ a (relatively) cheap filter system, sediment in your bottles can be eliminated. Wait until the wine appears clear, then filter before bottling. It makes the wine sparkle!

*CBell*, I agree, chilled is best.

*Jim*, the label looks great on the bottle!

*James*, you are right. Bulk storage and dispensary is best for mass consumption.

*JetJockey*, I have used raisins (one pound) and oak (one cup of toasted French oak) and bananas (six ripe sliced bananas) in the primary in various configurations. I have tried all variations side by side after time in the bottle, but I have found little if any value to adding extra ingredents to the primary. With raisins, we are looking for the addition of body to the wine through the skins of the grapes used in the raisins. While such use of raisins may benefit wines made from straight juice, that is not what we are doing with the DB. We already have a wealth of skins in the primary with the blueberries, blackberries, and raspberries. Give this, I don't think the raisins lend much extra value. It seemed so in the beginning, but after a short time in the bottle, I could not distinguish it from the original in blind tasting. Ditto with the bananas. Up front, they seemed to lend a hand, but later, all things became equal.

The oak, on the other hand, has promise. The only error I made was in placement. While application of oak in the primary did give _some_ flavor and smoothness to the DB, I have since become a fan of Joeswine's method of post (or secondary) application of both fruit and oak. I have made several reds and whites this past spring using his recommendations with wonderful success. The raisins (or fruit) and oak are used either upon racking to seconary, or after the wine has cleared. Tomorrow, I will start a triple batch of DB (18 gallons), and apply Joe's methods---in varying degrees---to two of the batches. the first batch will be the original without variation---for comparison. Batch two will have untoasted oak (probably a lot!) added to the wine after it clears. To the third batch, I will add an extra 3lbs of blackberries/raspberries/blackberries and some toasted French oak to the wine once it's cleared. The latter two batches will sit until the taste appeals to me---likely several weeks.

Watch Danger's Lab for this uncoming trial.


----------



## gird123

I tried to readfull 29 pages but could not make it. Has anyone added banana for body? How is the body of the standard? Starting this today! Going to throw it on top of a cc merlot lees.


----------



## jamesngalveston

*out of primary...so I used an igloo cooler.*

I was out of all primary buckets of any size. I had a 3 and 2, 1 gallon carboys empty...I do not like empty..lol
I wanted to start more db. 

I drilled a 4 inch hole in the top of a 30 quart igloo, then added all ingredients and covered hole with muslin. I figured at this early stage it wouldnt matter much what it was in.
When sg gets to 1.000 I will open spigot and add to the carboys.

Thanks for this stuff...My first taste of my first batch was excellent.


----------



## dangerdave

gird123 said:


> I tried to readfull 29 pages but could not make it. Has anyone added banana for body? How is the body of the standard? Starting this today! Going to throw it on top of a cc merlot lees.


 
Thanks for trying, gird! 

Like I have said (somewhere in those 29 pages), the bananas may actually add _some_ body to the wine, however, in this case I'm not convinced that's a good think. After some time in the bottle, I couldn't tell much of a difference with the use of bananas anyway. The DB is designed to be a light summer (or anytime) wine. My wife has convinced me to lean back closer to the original recipe.

She _does_ very much enjoy the enhanced flavor achieved with oak, so I'm sticking with that, I think.

I just brewed up my 18 gallon batch yesterday. The whole house is smelling awesome!

*James*, you are the man! Innovation is the brother of motivation...or something like that...


----------



## gird123

Started 6 gallons. I added 6 lbs of bananas. Did not see your post soon enough.

How much oak do you add?


----------



## dangerdave

I have had great success with both untoasted oak powder (1/2 cup) in the primary and medium toasted French oak chips (one cup) in the secondary (after clearing). If you are in a hurry, and have some handy, you can try putting the oak in the primary---yes, you can still add it now. If you don't mind waiting later on, and/or you don't have oak on hand at the moment---get some---and add it to the wine once it's cleared. Then, you let it sit until it tastes as oaky as you want...usually several weeks.

Thanks for trying the recipe. Good luck, and if you have any more questions, fire away.

edit: Did you get the cuurent version of the pdf file (above, in post #415)?


----------



## gird123

I looked in the recipe section. Did not see the PDF. SG was 1.080. I have made a lot of sp so I pitched on a merlot like I would with pee.

The wife picked up the triple berry and it is strawberry raspberry blueberry.

I saw your bentonite vs no bentonite and I was wondering if you had tried gelatin? Makes the lees very solid in my experience. A little slower than other things.


----------



## dangerdave

I do not reuse yeast for the Dragon Blood, but that's a personal preference. The merlot addition sounds great!

That berry blend also sounds nice. I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Gelatin, I have not tried. I know, from others, that it adds body to the wine. For reference, how much do you add to a six gallon batch, how is it applied, and when do you add it?


----------



## gird123

I use .5 tsp in warm, not hot water, .5 cup water. 5 to 10 days from racking. It removes tannin so you have to keep that in mind. 

I hope some one that knows more about gelatin would add their two cent. I recently used it in a pear and rhubarb and was pleased with the results.


----------



## dangerdave

Removes tannin. Duely noted. Thanks, my man.


----------



## Geronimo

Gelatin doesn't add body, it's just another "sticky" clarifier. It makes particles stick together to precipitate faster. It will soften the tannins for sure, but it's not huge difference depending on where you start and how much you use. Not very good for whites from what I understand because they lack tannins. Personally, I used to use it a lot in beer but prefer Kieselsol, Isinglass, or Sparkolloid in wine. That is to say, if I used a clarifier.. and I do not. I find the good old fashioned aging works better than anything.


----------



## dangerdave

Ah, you are correct, Geronimo. I thought someone had mentioned using gelatin to add body. I was mistaken. I think I'll stick to my sparkolloid.


----------



## GEM

Just a quick question. I have not made DB but I am getting the ingredients together to do so this weekend. On the question of adding oak, it is my understanding that adding oak at fermentation tends to soften tannins,etc, at least in regular wine. Adding oak after ferm. will tend to add the oak flavor. Is this correct, or doesn't it make any difference with DB or SP?
Cheers, Gary


----------



## Elmer

cohenhouse77 said:


> The lemon I use is per recipe. It is the Real Lemon with Sodium Bisulfite and Sodium Benzoate. The directions on the site say to add the lemon and give it a good stir over several days to dissipate the preservatives. I whip to add oxygen and release preservatives at the same time right before pitching.



I know the receipe calls for *1 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): if you want to
reduce the acid level use less lemon juice.*

I have a green grocer/organic store down the road. They sell pure Juice IE: 100% lemon juice. Only ingredient is lemon.

Is there a reason to use the "real lemon" green/yellow bottle over 100% pure organic lemon juice.

Aside from the fact that the organic store only sells in 16 oz bottles?

I know I am a noob to DB, but I do believe this is going to be next on my list.

Also can anyone suggest an age time to bulk age or in bottle, before I drink?


----------



## wineforfun

Either lemon juice will be fine. It is ready to drink once done but will improve greatly if you give it 2-3 months. It tends to smooth out and the berry flavor become more pronounced.


----------



## jamesngalveston

danger Dave, 
I started a 6 gallon batch two days ago. Mixed Pasteur red yeast per instructions..no fermentation after 12 hours.
I pitched another packet of Pasteur red and about 3 hours later, i had fermentation going.
JS wordy posted an article today about a wine brochure.
In it was a supplement called super food. To enhance yeast production.
I ordered some.
Do you think this will help in the fermentation process with db.
Yeast and all that Lemon do not mix well.


----------



## Hunt

Well I took the leap and have a batch of Dragon's blood going now. Already its looking tasty and i haven't even added the yeast lol.


----------



## dangerdave

jamesngalveston said:


> danger Dave,
> I started a 6 gallon batch two days ago. Mixed Pasteur red yeast per instructions..no fermentation after 12 hours.
> I pitched another packet of Pasteur red and about 3 hours later, i had fermentation going.
> JS wordy posted an article today about a wine brochure.
> In it was a supplement called super food. To enhance yeast production.
> I ordered some.
> Do you think this will help in the fermentation process with db.
> Yeast and all that Lemon do not mix well.


 
Super Food is a yeast nutrient. If you did not add any according to the recipe, that may have been the reason for the delay. It really helps the yeast get going. You can still add it if you think it needs it. If it's already going good, I'd just let it go.

To this day, I have made dozens of batches according to the recipe, and have yet to _not_ see fermentation within several hours of pitching the yeast (mostly Lavin EC-1118).

Keeping the must warm also helps a lot. Mid 70s.


----------



## dangerdave

Hunt said:


> Well I took the leap and have a batch of Dragon's blood going now. Already its looking tasty and i haven't even added the yeast lol.


 
You just wanna drink that must, don't ya!


----------



## jamesngalveston

yes.
no mine is going good, almost at 1.000 sg, it really does smell good.
soon as it is out of primary, I am going to make a peach strawberry mix, and do the exact same thing.. see how it comes out.


----------



## Hunt

dangerdave said:


> You just wanna drink that must, don't ya!



Yeah Im thinking of a dragons blood daiquiri right now lol. 
I tested the SG just before adding the berries and it was dead on at 1.075. Ill test it again today before I add the yeast and see how it is. Im all exited about this one.


----------



## dangerdave

Hunt said:


> Yeah Im thinking of a dragons blood daiquiri right now lol.
> I tested the SG just before adding the berries and it was dead on at 1.075. Ill test it again today before I add the yeast and see how it is. Im all exited about this one.


 
Perfect! You _should_ be excited. Once you get this one down, you will have a good, easy drinking wine which everyone will love, that you can make relatively cheaply, and in rapid succession.

Your life will never be the same!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I tried a sample that is still fermenting...not so good....lol
but has potential dave, lots of potential.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have to admit, I am hard working person, but after 5pm..I am a lush.
If i can get the alcohol content up, maybe ill just use a 5 gallon water cooler as a secondary, just pour when needed...
lol


----------



## dangerdave

The DB starts out drinkable, goes through a yucky phase during fermentation, then---if you follow the recipe---goes back to awesome! You will be delighted, I'm sure.

We're after-dinner-winos at our house. Once 7pm hits, we're drinking wine---every day. 
I used to drink beer before I started making wine. Now, I have friends who ask me why I don't drink beer any more. My response is, "I have a cellar full of _wine_."


----------



## Hunt

Yeah I still love my beer and brew it often (Got 5 gallons of coffee stout going now) but this wine brewing this could be dangerous if the DB comes out good.


----------



## jamesngalveston

LOL, that is funny. I use to be a die hard CC drinker..but I maybe leaning on the other side of the fence...
Its pleasureable to make your own, drink some, give away some, and store some..
Whats funny is for years, I thought that all the folks talking about there wine new what they were talking about.
Now...I think if you do not make wine, you do not wine.
Correct me if I am wrong.
I bet 99 percent do not know you can make white wine from black grapes.
lol


----------



## JimC

Dave,
When you add the oak chips after adding the clearing agent I assume you just rack off those again before sweetening and bottling?


----------



## Hunt

So the SG of the must is 1.060 and i could not resist a small taste. Just that little taste made me willing to scrap the wine and just drink the must. very tasty so far.


----------



## jamesngalveston

its good for sure. I have two 3 gallon batches clearing now, a five, and a six. i have been collecting .750 bottles for awhile, when my sister tasted the dragon blood, she said she wanted big bottles, instead of small ones.
I have a huge 4th of July party every year...this year I am going to keg 5 gallons for the party./


----------



## Hunt

jamesngalveston said:


> its good for sure. I have two 3 gallon batches clearing now, a five, and a six. i have been collecting .750 bottles for awhile, when my sister tasted the dragon blood, she said she wanted big bottles, instead of small ones.
> I have a huge 4th of July party every year...this year I am going to keg 5 gallons for the party./



That's gonna be a wild party


----------



## wineforfun

You DB newbies will all be surprised how awesome tasting this is, especially if you let it sit bottled for 2-3 months. It improves greatly. Just follow the instructions to the T for your first batches, then experiment away. I have made most of Dave's variations and all of them are good.


----------



## FABulousWines

jamesngalveston said:


> its good for sure. I have two 3 gallon batches clearing now, a five, and a six. i have been collecting .750 bottles for awhile, when my sister tasted the dragon blood, she said she wanted big bottles, instead of small ones.
> I have a huge 4th of July party every year...this year I am going to keg 5 gallons for the party./



I assume we are all invited? yes?

wine kegger = awesome idea

be safe!


----------



## dangerdave

JimC said:


> Dave,
> When you add the oak chips after adding the clearing agent I assume you just rack off those again before sweetening and bottling?


 
I'm still new to the oak after clearing thing. I've used oak in the primary, and my three experimental batches (for oaking purposes) are coming out of primary tomorrow. My plan is to allow them to clear at least a week before adding any oak. I wan the flavors to layer, so I'll reach my desired oakage (is that even a word?), then add sugar to taste.

So, yes, I plan to do it as you've assumed. Personally, I don't want the oak in there with a lot of cleaing agent because I don't want the agent to interfere with the oak flavor/tannin transfer. Following my first racking after clearing, I will add the oak. Let the wine sit on the oak until delightful, then rack off the leftovers. Sweeten as needed.

That's the plan, anyway. Let's hope it works out...


----------



## JimC

I hate waiting to find out results let me know how she comes out!!!!!


----------



## jvr06

I'm getting ready to rack and sweeten my DB, I was wondering what anyone has used to top-up with? I know I'm going to be short and I would like to get some suggestions on what has worked well with other. Thanks for any help.


----------



## ShawnDTurner

Jv. White zinfidel or white merlot works great


----------



## scottvin

not sure if this has been covered or not but for my yeast nutrient, I used DAP and for yeast energizer, I user Fermaid-K - does that sound correct?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i would top off with a like kind of wine, if there is one.
maybe a berry type of wine, strawberry, etc.
i would not use water, are just juice...i guess you could use strawberry liqueur are a berry vodka.


----------



## Tripplett

jvr06 said:


> I'm getting ready to rack and sweeten my DB, I was wondering what anyone has used to top-up with? I know I'm going to be short and I would like to get some suggestions on what has worked well with other. Thanks for any help.



White Zin is what I used as well. Or, later you can use an earlier batch of DB.


----------



## Elmer

1st batch is bottled and done.
24 bottles.
That means this weekend by the pool I will probably drink a few!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Fantastic elmer...looks really good.
heres something i do so i have my bottles all at the same level, are really close.
I cut a cork in half..then glued it on a small peice of flat plastic.
i insert in all my bottles and mark the bottom of the cork with a marker
when i fill, i fill to that line.
that way there are within a 1/2 gap between wine and cork.
great job elmer.


----------



## Elmer

The last bottle on the right was the absolute bottom of the carboy. I was hoping I only got a 1/2 a bottle so I could have just drank it instead of corking.
I try to fill evenly, but I am doing it manually over my sink and like me, it is far from perfect.
when it is alittle over I keep a glass next to me and fill the glass to even the bottles out.
I then drink what is in the glass!


----------



## JetJockey

Elmer,
Not trying to sell anything, but the All in One Wine pump made by bottling a breeze! All filled to the same exact level and no spills. It made my degassing and racking actually fun as well. Talk to Steve aka. Vacuumpumpman. It the best piece of equipment I've bought for wine making!


----------



## Elmer

JetJockey said:


> Elmer,
> Not trying to sell anything, but the All in One Wine pump made by bottling a breeze! All filled to the same exact level and no spills. It made my degassing and racking actually fun as well. Talk to Steve aka. Vacuumpumpman. It the best piece of equipment I've bought for wine making!



I understand and have heard it before.
However, my only 3 hobbies and getting quite expensive: Comicbooks, Golf & Wine.

As It is I have to buy a Winerack to house the 18 gallons I am about to bottle, which is probably going to cost me $100
Not to mention clear wine bottles for the DB, Etc....Etc....

It is tough for me to tell my kids they cant eat this week because daddy needs some new stuff for his wine!
The Pump has to wait!


----------



## dangerdave

It looks perfect, Elmer. Can't beat that true DB color. Let us know how it fairs at pool-side!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree with jetjockey....I do not have an allinone wine pump, but I do have a vacuum pump,resivoir,racking filling and filtering system, that I made my self. And Steve, aka Vacuumpumpman gave me pointers on that..
If your going to keep making wine, I would get one from the above, are make one...
If i had to do over, I would have bought one...but i am kinda gadget person , had to try to make my own.
Steve had them on sale, not sure if he still does, contact him.


----------



## Hunt

Well I bottled my first batch last night. I had about 375ml left after all the bottles were filled so I got that nice and cold and drank it right down. Very tasty. I ended up with the equivalent of 28 bottles. I used 6 1500ml bottles. the rest were 750ml. per daves instructions im giving them a week in the bottles before drinking to avoid bottle shock.


----------



## wineforfun

Hunt,
Make sure and save some of it for 2-3 months and you will be amazed at how different/better it tastes then.


----------



## Hunt

wineforfun said:


> Hunt,
> Make sure and save some of it for 2-3 months and you will be amazed at how different/better it tastes then.



Yeah I have a few marked so that I don't open them for 3 months 6 months and a year.


----------



## dangerdave

Nice, Hunt!

I gave up bottling all of my DB some time ago. From a six gallon batch, I usually fill 2 or 3 one gallon jugs and put them in the fidge behind the bar for instant cold beverages. The rest gets bottled---a few 1500ml bottles to take to parties, and the rest in 750ml bottles for gifting.

You better get some more going! I'm hoping the 18 gallons I'm just finishing up will get us through the summer!


----------



## stevolution

I'm going to be starting my very first batch of this hopefully tomorrow as long as my fermenter is free.. After hearing about this for some time now and being recommended it by another member.. 
Just gotta go to the store and grab some sugar and berries. Which brings up my first question. Is it ok to use on 1 lb bags of each fruit instead of the mixed triple berry. ie. 2x 1lb of each berry.. 

Thnx I'm so excited to start this one and even have a great idea for my labels already, have a friend drawing them up as we speak


----------



## JetJockey

I don't have tons of batches of DB under my belt, but with everyone trying different combinations of fruit, including only blueberries, etc. this recipe is so flexible. There shouldn't be any problem with buying fruit in one # or 3# bags. Just make sure your ratios of ingredients are correct, i.e. 6# fruit is the original recipe, so 3# of fruit is 1/2 recipe ingredients.

Have fun, you'll love it. All of my friends, including non-wine drinkers really enjoy it and ask for more!


----------



## stevolution

Got my fruit and sugar!!! Gonna get started right after dinner..


----------



## stevolution

Ok so I have my first batch of DB in my primary .. Started with a SG of about 1.072. My only concern at this point is I didn't relize I was out of airlocks until after making the batch.. So I covered with the lid and put a paper towel over the airlock hole moistened with easy clean.. If there is a better way please let me know. I will be try ping to pick up another airlock tomorrow as long as someone is open. If not will this be ok until Saturday? Also when squeezing the fruit bag how hard should I be squeezing ?


----------



## Tess

this was my first wine. I thought I would never make another batch and that most of Ya'll who said it was wonderful were out of your minds!! Im not a raspberry anything fan , unless it covered in chocolate. I cracked open a bottle the other night. Its been in the bottle for a few months now. What a difference. I now fully understand why ageing anything is the way to go. The other fruits are beginning to come forward and its not so raspberrish!! Yuk!! I will be making this again!!! Im really pleased with the outcome of this light wine!! Live and Learn!!


----------



## Tess

stevolution said:


> Ok so I have my first batch of DB in my primary .. Started with a SG of about 1.072. My only concern at this point is I didn't relize I was out of airlocks until after making the batch.. So I covered with the lid and put a paper towel over the airlock hole moistened with easy clean.. If there is a better way please let me know. I will be try ping to pick up another airlock tomorrow as long as someone is open. If not will this be ok until Saturday? Also when squeezing the fruit bag how hard should I be squeezing ?



Your good. Dont even worry about the airlock at this point. It will be good for a few days. There is so much gas coming off it at this point nothing is going to get into your wine to harm it. A lot of people just cover with a damp towel. I just set the lid to my fermenter on top. I set a gallon of water on on the lid. Just make sure as the fermentation begins to really slow to a finish you snap the lid down tight and put it in air lock. As far as the fruit bag, Squeeze the twist the crap out of it. You want every bit of juice you can get. By the time mine was done fermenting there was not much left in my FP lol


----------



## stevolution

Awesome thnx for the reply ... I'm still pretty new to this and don't really know what is absolutely necessary and what can be fudged... I will be trying to get an airlock tomorrow if someone is open. If not I will proceed to adding yeast and covering with towel until Saturday when I can get an airlock...


----------



## Tess

Degassing? Im sure this is going to be very controversial and I will get all kinds of crap for it but, Something like dragons blood or any of the light wines you drink pretty quick and dont plan to age a few years. I sheet rack. 
No special equipment needed. Not extra equipment to buy. All you do is when you rack to the carboy the first time. Hold the wracking tube to the side of the carboy and let it wash down the side releasing the CO2 as you wrack. 
Im not sure Id do this with a long aging wine but I do nothing else with the shorter ready
to drink wines . It has so far worked great for me. 
I first heard about it on here. Im still fairy new and you never know I may be back on here in a few months saying what a mistake this sheet racking has been, but not yet!! I think its great. Lots of gas coming off as you do so its works great. I still degas with the drill but its not nearly as much and as worrisome!! Good luck and follow your gut!!


----------



## Tess

stevolution said:


> Awesome thnx for the reply ... I'm still pretty new to this and don't really know what is absolutely necessary and what can be fudged... I will be trying to get an airlock tomorrow if someone is open. If not I will proceed to adding yeast and covering with towel until Saturday when I can get an airlock...



You will need it so get it and have it ready. You should be good for a few days though.


----------



## Tess

I dont take a reading every day. Its not necessary. I have gotten to the point to where I can put my ear up to the side of my fermenting bucket and can tell whats gong on. When its at full ferment you can hear it loud and clear. its sounds like rice crispies...(Snap, crackle and pop)
I take the first reading and the last before I rack to bottle. The hydrometer is more accurate them my ear in the end!! My ear my say its done but it could just be stuck. Always check with your Hydrometer.


----------



## JetJockey

stevolution said:


> Ok so I have my first batch of DB in my primary .. Started with a SG of about 1.072. My only concern at this point is I didn't relize I was out of airlocks until after making the batch.. So I covered with the lid and put a paper towel over the airlock hole moistened with easy clean.. If there is a better way please let me know. I will be try ping to pick up another airlock tomorrow as long as someone is open. If not will this be ok until Saturday? Also when squeezing the fruit bag how hard should I be squeezing ?



Some people only put a towel over the primary and no lid/airlock because you have to stir and squeeze every day. They let it that way until they transfer to a carboy (secondary) and then use an airlock. This lets a lot of air in so the yeast colony can grow. Shouldn't be a problem without the airlock!


----------



## stevolution

Either way got my airlocks today and will be introducing yeast In a couple hours..


----------



## jamesngalveston

tess= carboy whisperer...


----------



## stevolution

I wasn't sure sure where to put this in the forum so I apologize ahead of time if its incorrect... I want to make a strawberry banana version of this but I'm not sure what I need to sub out or in? Obviously sub out the berries for strawberry and bananas but I'm not sure if I need to add acid blend or not? Should I take out the lemon juice as well or maybe cut it back ? Has anyone tried this before any info would be great


My original DB Is coming along great though. Still setting in the primary fermenting away.. I do think I'm going to have a lot of racking ahead of me though as there is a lot of fruit particles floating around in the wine..


----------



## jamesngalveston

i made a blackberry strawberry...i cut the lemon in half. that was it.


----------



## stevolution

That's sounds delicious too... Also what's the difference in using fresh fruit compared to frozen.. I'm not sure ill e able to find frozen bananas:/


----------



## kryptonitewine

Just save some bananas until they turn brown and ten freeze them. Slice them peels and all when adding to your wine. Fresh vs frozen is a personal choice. Don't use store bought fresh fruit IMO as a lot of it is picked too early and ripens after it's picked (strawberries are a prime example).


----------



## Hunt

So i opened my first bottle of the DB on the 4th of july and thought that maybe this wine is not for me but I kept drinking it anyway. Last night I opened a bottle, then another and another. My memory is a little fuzzy but I do believe I drank them all down lol.

By the way does anyone know what the standard ABV is? When I took measurements I thought it was 12% or so but it does not seem to pack much of a punch to me


----------



## stevolution

kryptonitewine said:


> Just save some bananas until they turn brown and ten freeze them. Slice them peels and all when adding to your wine. Fresh vs frozen is a personal choice. Don't use store bought fresh fruit IMO as a lot of it is picked too early and ripens after it's picked (strawberries are a prime example).



I always thought there were different ingredients needed when using fresh fruit. Which is why I have been hesitant. Is there a reason why you should wait for them to turn brown? Also which weight should I use the fresh wait or the frozen weight?


----------



## wineforfun

stevolution said:


> I always thought there were different ingredients needed when using fresh fruit. Which is why I have been hesitant. Is there a reason why you should wait for them to turn brown? Also which weight should I use the fresh wait or the frozen weight?



Fresh fruit is fine but I believe it is much easier to work with frozen. I don't know that your banana flavor is going to come through with the strawberry. Dave may chime in on this. 
I used bananas in the fruit bag, with all the mixed berries, for body(Dave's Especiale recipe). Didn't care for that recipe and didn't notice any banana taste.


----------



## wineforfun

Hunt said:


> So i opened my first bottle of the DB on the 4th of july and thought that maybe this wine is not for me but I kept drinking it anyway. Last night I opened a bottle, then another and another. My memory is a little fuzzy but I do believe I drank them all down lol.
> 
> By the way does anyone know what the standard ABV is? When I took measurements I thought it was 12% or so but it does not seem to pack much of a punch to me



If you started your SG around 1.075-1.080 you will end up with around 12%ABV, depending on how dry you run it. 
It does not have an overpowering alcohol flavor to it, it is a very easy drinker. However, if you are saying you drank 3 bottles and didn't get very "happy", we may have to get you help.


----------



## dangerdave

Great conversation, folks. I'm glad the recipe is still making converts. Tess, you are a wonder! Thank you for fielding questions. You too, DJ. You guys are great.

Several notes: Even if you use fresh fruit, freeze it first, then thaw it prior to use. Freezing causes the cells to rupture, releasing all the fruity goodness within. I ferment to dry in the primary, always. Lay the lid on loose for easy squeezing, and cover with a towel to keep out the fruit flies. I never snap down the lid, and don't transfer to a carboy until it is totally dry, and ready to stabilize and sparkolloid.

Tess, it's like I tell everyone. DB improves a great deal in the first few weeks to months in the bottle. In a year---if you can stash a few bottles that long---it gets sooooo smooth! I have a few bottles left from last year including DB and some Jet Blue that I've been drinking. They are indeed remarkable!

Welcome to the DB family, Steve! It's a very happy family!


----------



## stevolution

dangerdave said:


> Great conversation, folks. I'm glad the recipe is still making converts. Tess, you are a wonder! Thank you for fielding questions. You too, DJ. You guys are great.
> 
> Several notes: Even if you use fresh fruit, freeze it first, then thaw it prior to use. Freezing causes the cells to rupture, releasing all the fruity goodness within. I ferment to dry in the primary, always. Lay the lid on loose for easy squeezing, and cover with a towel to keep out the fruit flies. I never snap down the lid, and don't transfer to a carboy until it is totally dry, and ready to stabilize and sparkolloid.
> 
> Tess, it's like I tell everyone. DB improves a great deal in the first few weeks to months in the bottle. In a year---if you can stash a few bottles that long---it gets sooooo smooth! I have a few bottles left from last year including DB and some Jet Blue that I've been drinking. They are indeed remarkable!
> 
> Welcome to the DB family, Steve! It's a very happy family!



I am super excited to try this after its huge following and I have to say there is a much better satisfaction making something from scratch than from a kit. Ill be putting up a few pictures tonight of my very first DB.. Ill post more info then and probably more questions lol..


----------



## kryptonitewine

In my limited experience the bananas do not add flavor. They are used to add "body".


----------



## stevolution

kryptonitewine said:


> In my limited experience the bananas do not add flavor. They are used to add "body".



Oh really so is there no way to get a banana flavored wine ? :/


----------



## dangerdave

I have used bananas in my DB to add body, and there are some who say (without prompting) that they taste a hint of banana, but it's lost on me. I much prefer---and am a new convert---of post fermentation enhancement of wine with oak and/or fruit.

I have seen people on here posting regarding banana wine recipes. Do a search and see if you can glean some info on how to make your wine actually taste like bananas. We have so many awesome wine makers, here!


----------



## stevolution

Ya I will have to research it a bit before trying it.. It's just weird how some fruits will produce a flavor and some won't .. Any other fruits I should look out for not producing much flavor ?


----------



## dangerdave

From my experience, fermenting cherries does not produce what you would expect. I made a Skeeter Pee using dark sweet cherries (ala Dragon Blood version), but it ended up with virtually no "cherry" flavor. This was successfully remedied by adding a single packet of cherry Kool Aid to the six gallon carboy. I have several bottles left from last year's batch, and they are fantastic (I'm keeping them hidden).


----------



## kryptonitewine

stevolution said:


> Ya I will have to research it a bit before trying it.. It's just weird how some fruits will produce a flavor and some won't .. Any other fruits I should look out for not producing much flavor ?



Grapes. Lol.


----------



## stevolution

Well it's doing along nicely. SG was about 1.024 and starting to look much better not to mention smell much better lol.. Now hopefully my other wine is ready to bottle by the time I have to rack my DB..


----------



## jamesngalveston

sure there is...recipes here on forum for banana wine.
i think that if you wanted to make a db and add bananas i would cook them down to a syrup.start with like 5 lbs...ripe...peeled.
add to large pot, and cook on med until it is reduced until it looks like a thick gravy. it will be very strong. you basically making extracted banana flavoring.
are you can just buy some 100 percent pure, extract.


----------



## Tess

dangerdave said:


> Great conversation, folks. I'm glad the recipe is still making converts. Tess, you are a wonder! Thank you for fielding questions. You too, DJ. You guys are great.
> 
> Several notes: Even if you use fresh fruit, freeze it first, then thaw it prior to use. Freezing causes the cells to rupture, releasing all the fruity goodness within. I ferment to dry in the primary, always. Lay the lid on loose for easy squeezing, and cover with a towel to keep out the fruit flies. I never snap down the lid, and don't transfer to a carboy until it is totally dry, and ready to stabilize and sparkolloid.
> 
> Tess, it's like I tell everyone. DB improves a great deal in the first few weeks to months in the bottle. In a year---if you can stash a few bottles that long---it gets sooooo smooth! I have a few bottles left from last year including DB and some Jet Blue that I've been drinking. They are indeed remarkable!
> 
> Welcome to the DB family, Steve! It's a very happy family!



your welcome Dave. I just had to share this with you tonight. I just got a call from a friend wanting to order 10 cases of Dragons Blood!! LMAO ..Funny and Sad at the same time!! Of course I cant sell it and wont but what a compliment to your recipe!! Just wanted to share!! She drank a bottle with me over the weekend


----------



## jamesngalveston

tess...only one bottle for two people over a weekend.....dang
i was thinking more of 6, but I guess im a lush...
it is good isnt it...


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> tess...only one bottle for two people over a weekend.....dang
> i was thinking more of 6, but I guess im a lush...
> it is good isnt it...



James, I starting a new Batch Of DB tomorrow. Im down to 5 bottles!!! Why Im so stingy with it!!


----------



## jamesngalveston

lol, i know the feeling...i need to start a batch also..and i have every primary full...seriously thinking of breaking out my igloos for primarys.


----------



## stevolution

Reading this makes me want to drink this now!!!! You people may be a bad influence on me lol


----------



## beardy

stevolution said:


> Reading this makes me want to drink this now!!!! You people may be a bad influence on me lol



I have the same problem. I started 2 batches of other wines and now I'm wanting to go buy a new primary so I can make this NOW!


----------



## wineforfun

jamesngalveston said:


> lol, i know the feeling...i need to start a batch also..and i have every primary full*...seriously thinking of breaking out my igloos for primarys*.




haha
That is awesome.


----------



## Elmer

Just racked my 2nd batch.

of course spent yesterday recouping from 3 days of golf & Phish.
2 bottles and my pool did the trick.

but I am down to 12 bottles. I have gone through 12 in 2 weeks.
Mostly myself. 
I dont share so well!


----------



## jamesngalveston

way to go elmer...watch those carboys...they multiply on there own.


----------



## JetJockey

If they multiplied for free, I'd be OK. But, they multiply and so does the cost!


----------



## Hunt

wineforfun said:


> If you started your SG around 1.075-1.080 you will end up with around 12%ABV, depending on how dry you run it.
> It does not have an overpowering alcohol flavor to it, it is a very easy drinker. However, if you are saying you drank 3 bottles and didn't get very "happy", we may have to get you help.



Yeah no kidding Lol. I OG was 1.075 and my FG was .999 before adding more sugar making 1.010. Granted after 3 bottles im sure my face was a little red from the effects but for the most part i was still walking just fine, That scares me lol.


----------



## Hunt

Its sad really. I have given out 2 bottles as gifts and hogged the other 20 something to myself and i only have 10 left. Keep in mind that I only bottled this stuff 2 weeks ago. At this rate i will not be able to keep any on hand to age for a few months. As stevolution said a little while ago you guys are a bad influence on me.


----------



## vernsgal

stevolution said:


> Oh really so is there no way to get a banana flavored wine ? :/



just add banana syrup like you would an fpak. This is just one I found, I'm sure there's other kinds

http://www.davincigourmet.com/products/product_details/?productID=11


----------



## snowgirl812001

Can't wait to try this one! I did a tropical version using strawberry, mango, papaya, & pineapple.


----------



## stevolution

snowgirl812001 said:


> Can't wait to try this one! I did a tropical version using strawberry, mango, papaya, & pineapple.



Let me know how this turns out . This may just be my next batch...


----------



## stevolution

So today is day 6 of my DB. SG is right at 1.000 so tonight I removed my fruit bag and I will let it settle out over the next 24 hours.. Tomorrow I will rack off not my newly purchased (today) carboy. You guys weren't kidding about this multiply behind your back.. I just bought my first one a month ago and now have 5!!!! They just grow up so fast..lol now if my bottles would only start multiplying..

I did take a small sip of the DB tonight and I was surely suprised by flavor. After smelling the fermenting fruit for the last week I have been Leary about trying it but I'm glad I did.now I can't wait to get this into bottles and try some finished..


----------



## stevolution

vernsgal said:


> just add banana syrup like you would an fpak. This is just one I found, I'm sure there's other kinds
> 
> http://www.davincigourmet.com/products/product_details/?productID=11



This might be the way to go. So could I just do 6lbs of strawberries then add this to taste after fermentation?


----------



## beardy

So I looked at a bottle of ReaLemon and saw it has lemon oil in it... that doesn't hurt the wine at all? I've read oils can do pretty nasty things to wine.


----------



## vernsgal

stevolution said:


> This might be the way to go. So could I just do 6lbs of strawberries then add this to taste after fermentation?


make sure it's cleared and you stabilized first then add to taste. Remember the longer you plan on aging the wine the flavor will fade.


----------



## Dend78

tried some of my first batch of this, its been almost a year, wow its a totally different wine not even close to the same flavor, very smooth indeed


----------



## wineforfun

beardy said:


> So I looked at a bottle of ReaLemon and saw it has lemon oil in it... that doesn't hurt the wine at all? I've read oils can do pretty nasty things to wine.



Nope, if you are using the RealLemon brand(green bottle/yellow writing), that is what most all of us use. I have even used Wal-Mart or Hy-Vee(local grocery store) brand too.


----------



## wineforfun

Dend78 said:


> tried some of my first batch of this, its been almost a year, wow its a totally different wine not even close to the same flavor, very smooth indeed




That is great to hear. I have one bottle from my very first batch(where I used 2 bottles lemon according to recipe) that is 8 months old. Holding onto it for the 1yr. mark.


----------



## jamesngalveston

since my first batch of dragon blood.
I cut my lemon juice in half
I doubled the amount of fruit.
I start with an sg of 1.110
I let it go dry in the primary.
I back sweeten with a simple syrup made from the fruit i used in fermenter.
My variants have been.
strawberry/blackberry
blackberry only
blueberry/blackberry
mango/strawberry
strawberry only
if i use a single fruit, i call it a fast track wine.
i have made 3 batches of the original
consensus....its all good.


----------



## JetJockey

James,
How do you make the simple syrup with the left over fruit? My leftovers are just about all seeds (triple berry) and skins, i.e. not a lot left but pulp with little moisture. Maybe I'm squeezing too hard?


----------



## jamesngalveston

sorry should have clarified are made a better sentence.
I use the same fruit that I started with.
If i used fresh strawberrys and blackberrys in the wine,
i use fresh fruit in the simple syrup...


----------



## JetJockey

I haven't used simple syrup, just added sugar in my batches. Do you boil the fruit down and add sugar? Add any water? I assume that this helps boost the fruit flavor over just adding sugar?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i will use 1 parts fruit 1 part sugar and cook it down are reduce to 1/2


----------



## dangerdave

I made eighteen gallons of DB in my big container last month. Twelve gallons got bottled as original, while the last six was for experimentation. This time, I added three pounds of the triple berries into the carboy along with some French oak. I'm letting the DB soak up the goodness from the fruit and oak for about a month (stirring once a week) before I rack/taste/sweeten. We shall see...

Next, I'm going to do a two batch comparative study on the difference between yeast varieties: Lavin EC-1118 vs Lavin 71B-1122. Stay tuned! 

I'm also interested in James' sweet fruit extract. I'll have to try that!


----------



## JetJockey

Dave,
I'm excitedly awaiting your oak test results! Was the 3# of fruit additional after the original 6#/6gallons for a total of 9#? Did the 3# of triple berry and French oak get added after clearing & stabilizing?


----------



## dangerdave

Hey, Bob!

I waited until the wine was stabilized and clear before racking it onto the fruit and oak. Six pounds of fruit in the primary (per the recipe), then the three pounds applied after clearing. I wanted the fruit flavor from the triple berry blend and it's natural sugars to be imparted to the DB without anything else interfering. It's been about two weeks, now. I'm waiting another week (since I will conveniently be out of town next week) before tasting, to see how it's coming along.

James' sweet fruit extract might be a faster way to impart extra fruit flavor to the wine, but getting the oakiness I want takes time. The wife wanted the original, unmodified version. She's got hers. This one is for _me_.


----------



## beardy

dangerdave said:


> Hey, Bob!
> 
> I waited until the wine was stabilized and clear before racking it onto the fruit and oak. Six pounds of fruit in the primary (per the recipe), then the three pounds applied after clearing. I wanted the fruit flavor from the triple berry blend and it's natural sugars to be imparted to the DB without anything else interfering. It's been about two weeks, now. I'm waiting another week (since I will conveniently be out of town next week) before tasting, to see how it's coming along.
> 
> James' sweet fruit extract might be a faster way to impart extra fruit flavor to the wine, but getting the oakiness I want takes time. The wife wanted the original, unmodified version. She's got hers. This one is for me.



Are you crushing the fruit or just setting it in whole? How will you clear it again if the former?


----------



## dangerdave

It goes in whole, but some of it falls apart (blackberries/raspberries) in the stirring. It all settles quickly to the bottom if not disturbed, so I just rack the wine off the fruit. I screen the fruit and save the extra in a separate jar, mind you---no wasted wine! If the carboy remains cloudy after another week, I'll hit it with some sparkolloid to clear it up. No problem.

It does take some extra work. Stuffing three pounds of fruit through a large funnel takes a few minutes extra. Getting the fruit back out of the carboy and through a screened funnel takes a bit of lifting. It's no worse, really, than the kits I've tweaked using raisins and oak or other fruit for that matter. The outcome, IMO, has been well worth the effort. I'm hoping the DB is just as rewarding.

Thanks for asking, bready!


----------



## JetJockey

dangerdave said:


> I'm waiting another week (since I will conveniently be out of town next week) before tasting, to see how it's coming along.



Dave,
You're a better man than I, I would have to sneak a taste or three before I left!

Keep us posted!


----------



## dangerdave

Stop tempting me!!!!!!!!


----------



## stevolution

Ok I've been degassing with a whip for close to an hour now is this normal? I'm doing to test by putting a sample in a test jar and capping the top and shaking but I'm still getting a lot of gas escape :/


----------



## dangerdave

Some batches hold more gas than others. You'll just have to keep at it. We all have difficult degassing stories. Eventually, you are going to want a vacuum pump. My Allinone is the best investment I have made toward easier wine making.


----------



## stevolution

dangerdave said:


> Some batches hold more gas than others. You'll just have to keep at it. We all have difficult degassing stories. Eventually, you are going to want a vacuum pump. My Allinone is the best investment I have made toward easier wine making.



Ya I was already thinking about getting one just have to wait to the right time.. But for now ill just "whip it" lol

When using the whip what is the best technique? Find a speed that doesn't overflow it and keep it steady or do quick fast bursts and lest it settle for a few seconds?

And can I degass more after adding sparkaloid?


----------



## stevolution

Ok we'll I'm calling it a night been degassing for two hours now and still showing signs of gas. I did not add sparkaloid tonight and will continue to degass tomorrow after work.. Any helpful tips would so appreciated..


----------



## vernsgal

I had trouble degassing mine too. It took 2 days. Just be careful when you're using the whip you don't add more air. I learned to hold steady to the side at a med. speed and let her go. That's what works for me anyway. Keep at it it'll get done.


----------



## stevolution

vernsgal said:


> I had trouble degassing mine too. It took 2 days. Just be careful when you're using the whip you don't add more air. I learned to hold steady to the side at a med. speed and let her go. That's what works for me anyway. Keep at it it'll get done.



Ok is there a way to know of I'm adding air to it? Should I wait to add sparkaloid until it completly degassed?


----------



## dangerdave

Try to avoid creating a vortex that pulls air down into the wine. Degas completely before adding sparkolloid or it will not clear properly. You da man, Steve! Keep at it. You'll get it done, and it will be worth it!

Temp is important for proper degassing as well. The wine should be in the 70's (F).

Go, man, go!


----------



## Tripplett

I had a problem batch of DB my first batch. I thought I had degassed enough so I let it sit a month and bottled it. After a few weeks one bottle actually popped a cork and shot berry wine all over the carpet. Now I usually degas a good amount spread out over two days. Like mentioned make sure you don't create a vortex. I found that even water will make a slight 'poof' if you shake it up in a test tube so try to go by how long the bubbles take to dissipate and, even better, by taste. You can taste the slight carbonation on your tongue. Good luck.


----------



## stevolution

Ok thanx Dave and trip. I will be at it again tonight as soon as I get home from work. I'm tryin to be patient which really isn't one of my strong suites . But I really want this to turn out right. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bubbles will never totally disappear they will just dissolve faster.. And yes I realize that air will still make the pff sound after being shaken but it was still pretty bad last night.. 

Thnx again guys ill let you know how it for tonight..


----------



## WI_Wino

Tripplett said:


> I had a problem batch of DB my first batch. I thought I had degassed enough so I let it sit a month and bottled it. After a few weeks one bottle actually popped a cork and shot berry wine all over the carpet. Now I usually degas a good amount spread out over two days. Like mentioned make sure you don't create a vortex. I found that even water will make a slight 'poof' if you shake it up in a test tube so try to go by how long the bubbles take to dissipate and, even better, by taste. You can taste the slight carbonation on your tongue. Good luck.



I'm doubtful that excess CO2 in the wine is the reason for a popped cork, especially after the bottle sat a few weeks. My guess would be it was not done fermenting or you had renewed fermentation after sweetening.


----------



## stevolution

Well degassing with one hand and typing with the other.. Going on 4 hours total time now ..I think to just about done , the bubbles dissipate much faster now and the wine did taste very flat but what do I know lol... The shake test still let's a little gas out but as said it will never fully go away.. Ill keep at it for a but longer and then taste again.. 

And while I'm here it is necessary to top off the carboy at this stage after adding sparkaloid ...

Steve


----------



## jamesngalveston

how much of a gap are we talking....if it is more then 3 inches I would..some cheap wine, are juice are something besides water.


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, top up. A wine zin is good for that.


----------



## Tripplett

WI_Wino said:


> I'm doubtful that excess CO2 in the wine is the reason for a popped cork, especially after the bottle sat a few weeks. My guess would be it was not done fermenting or you had renewed fermentation after sweetening.



I thought so too but a quick reading confirmed SG was holding after back sweetening. I had a thread on this. I did move the wine from the basement (65 degrees) to the dining room (75 degrees) and I think that had something to do with it. Granted I'm still new to this so... I bought a vacuum pump and re-opened all the bottles. I had quite a bit of CO2 still in the wine and worked it till it would hold 20 HG for 10 minutes or so. I think some of it was not stirring hard enough each day and thereby not helping with off gassing. The second batch I made was nowhere near as gassy.


----------



## Elmer

Just finished my 2nd batch.
5 gallons (once I dispense of the goop)
I sweetened with 4 1/2 cup of sugar.
(my 1st bacth I used 3 1/2 cup and it was a bit dry, which allowed the berry to pop through.)
This time I decided to sweeten it up to compare, but I am also not going to bottle for a bit, I am going to let it sit for about a month and bulk age!

Of course over the weekend my mother in law fell in love with DB. She drank a bottle and is now demand I supply her with 2 more!


----------



## jamesngalveston

well, now you have a free carboy, better get another batch started,
give your mother in law a case, that will keep her happy..lol
do the goop dance.


----------



## Tess

OK, Im going to be starting another 6 gallons of DB this week. Dave, I know you said you no longer use any lemon juice is that correct? You use an acid Blend right? How much do I add to 6 gallons of DB? did you go back and edit your original recipe any?


----------



## Tess

James you have made enough of it Im sure you can answer this as well


----------



## Tess

also, are you oaking it know. I have some medium toast should I go for it? lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

I still use lemon juice but only 1/3 as the original , i do use 1 1/2 tsp per 6 gallons,acid blend.and i leave out the tannin. the acid blend kinda helps for the reduced amount of lemon juice...I think.
here is something else i do...
I kept getting short changed on my wine, by adding water then berries then adding water to the 6 gallon mark.
what i do now , is add 6 gallons water, then the sugar and chemicals, then the berries,plus additional 6 lbs berries, then wait 12 hours and pitch yeast.
wait over night


----------



## Tess

Thanks James!!! your the man!!!


----------



## Tess

I added twice the fruit for the black&Blue


----------



## FABulousWines

I've had to put this off due to vacations and other commitments, but it is time to see what all the excitement is about! I moved the berries from the freezer to the fridge last night. Gonna throw it all in the bucket tonight. This first batch I will go strictly by the recipe. The only exception is that our Walmart did not have the Wyman's blend that Dave uses; it has blueberries, raspberries, and strawberries. I've since discovered that our Sam's does carry the blackberry, blueberry, and raspberry blend so that may be my next batch. Wish me luck...


----------



## JetJockey

jamesngalveston said:


> I kept getting short changed on my wine, by adding water then berries then adding water to the 6 gallon mark.
> what i do now , is add 6 gallons water, then the sugar and chemicals, then the berries,plus additional 6 lbs berries, then wait 12 hours and pitch yeast.
> wait over night


James,
Does all of that still fit in a 7.9 gal plastic primary and leave room to stir?


----------



## wineforfun

Tess said:


> OK, Im going to be starting another 6 gallons of DB this week. Dave, I know you said you no longer use any lemon juice is that correct? You use an acid Blend right? How much do I add to 6 gallons of DB? did you go back and edit your original recipe any?



I am curious to see how you like the acid blend only version. We have made it and did not like it compared to the scaled back lemon juice version. It was very flat and different. Completely different product in our opinion.


----------



## jamesngalveston

jet jockey, when i make a batch of 6 gallon db..I use a 52 quart igloo ice chest.
it is only in the igloo for 4 to 7 days, no harm there.


----------



## jamesngalveston

fabulouswines, my wallmart had the same thing, and my first batch was with that brand of berries....my second was also from sams club.
i really liked the first one better.....
i have a gigantic batch going are starting, and used the one from sams club, becuase it was 125 cheaper to buy from sams then wallmart.


----------



## rhythmsteve

i love what you did with the original pee recipe, i've been modding it for a few years now as well, and i do a Iced Tea/Lemonade version that's pretty tasty


----------



## jamesngalveston

would love to have your recipe for the iced tea/lemonade if you will share.


----------



## beardy

jamesngalveston said:


> would love to have your recipe for the iced tea/lemonade if you will share.



Ditto that!!!


----------



## stevolution

I'm also thinking of cutting back the lemon juice on my second batch.. Is it necessary to add acid blend? If so is there a way to judge how much to add for how much lemon juice I cut out?.. Still deciding if I want to try the same fruit or change it with something else.. Really want to try the tropical version some talked about..


----------



## jamesngalveston

i really dont know if its correct but i cut my lemon juice by a third and add acid blend according to mfg directions per gallon.


----------



## beardy

Oooh. Its payday. DB batch will be started as soon as I have a free hour or 2!!!


----------



## bambiying

Bottled my Skeeter Pee yesterday and it's beautiful. Just started my first batch of Dragon's Blood. Why didn't someone tell me how impossibly hard it is to stuff 6 lbs of fruit into a thigh-hi stocking??? LOL!


----------



## wineforfun

stevolution said:


> I'm also thinking of cutting back the lemon juice on my second batch.. Is it necessary to add acid blend? If so is there a way to judge how much to add for how much lemon juice I cut out?.. Still deciding if I want to try the same fruit or change it with something else.. Really want to try the tropical version some talked about..



Depends how much you are cutting it back. I cut mine in half (compared to the original recipe) and don't add any acid blend. It turns out great.


----------



## Stressbaby

My wife wants me to make DB. We bought the ingredients, however I don't have Sparkalloid. I have Isinglass and SuperKleer. Will one of those work and is one better than the other?


----------



## jeranis

So my first batch of Dragon Blood was AWSOME as soon as it was clear. Second batch, prepared exactly the same way has some issues. It is crystal clear and tasty but gives nasty next day headaches... it doesnt bother me all that much but it incapacitates my girlfriend. Hopefully this ages out. The batch of skeeter pee I made at the same time is headache free. Damn yeast...


----------



## jamesngalveston

super kleer will work just fine..its all i use.


----------



## beardy

Stressbaby said:


> My wife wants me to make DB. We bought the ingredients, however I don't have Sparkalloid. I have Isinglass and SuperKleer. Will one of those work and is one better than the other?



What about bentonite? Thats all I have... im assuming ANY fining agent will work...


----------



## Stressbaby

Thanks James, that is what I thought.

Beardy, Dave did some experiments with Sparkalloid vs Sparkalloid + bentonite and decided that DB was better without the bentonite. Now I don't know how it would work alone. I just don't like the fluffy lees you get with the bentonite.


----------



## Geronimo

My personal favorite for anything but red wine is Kieselsol and Chitosan (Super Kleer). Sparkaloid is excellent too. IMO use the cheapest one that gets the job done fastest without stripping aroma or flavor. For me, Kieselsol and Chitosan work in about 12 hours, and I always have a ton of it laying around from red wine kits.

Word to the wise: never attempt to clear until you are 100% sure you have degassed. You will wind up with these weird dumplings floating around in the carboy and no matter how hard you try, a little sediment will end up in the bucket (and your bottles). The solids need to settle and compact in the carboy. Superkleer and Sparkaloid do a great job of this, bentonite is really susceptible to getting sucked into the siphon.


----------



## beardy

Geronimo said:


> My personal favorite for anything but red wine is Kieselsol and Chitosan (Super Kleer). Sparkaloid is excellent too. IMO use the cheapest one that gets the job done fastest without stripping aroma or flavor. For me, Kieselsol and Chitosan work in about 12 hours, and I always have a ton of it laying around from red wine kits.
> 
> Word to the wise: never attempt to clear until you are 100% sure you have degassed. You will wind up with these weird dumplings floating around in the carboy and no matter how hard you try, a little sediment will end up in the bucket (and your bottles). The solids need to settle and compact in the carboy. Superkleer and Sparkaloid do a great job of this, bentonite is really susceptible to getting sucked into the siphon.



Thanks for the info! 
I'll have to try the other ones then


----------



## stevolution

Well my DB is clear and I am going to rack off into another carboy and add some sugar... If need be can i top of with my island mist strawberry merlot I just made a week ago?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i would rack first, see how much room is left, your sugar will make up some of the volume, then top off with your merlot.


----------



## stevolution

jamesngalveston said:


> i would rack first, see how much room is left, your sugar will make up some of the volume, then top off with your merlot.



Ya I guess I didn't figure on the sugar taking up that much room.. Newbie mistake.. I actually had to remove a little wine to fit all the sugar.. I ended up adding the full 5 cups as me and my wife like a bit of sweeter wine... I can see how people would think this wine isn't for them though.. We tasted some and it has a little bit of a burn to it.. Hopefully it's just young and will get better and I didn't just mess something up..


----------



## rhythmsteve

The lemon, iced tea is as follows..... I cut the skeeter pee recipe (Lon's original in half) and I brew 3 gallons of tea in a coffee maker (8 tea bags and 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon) I start the Pee out as you would normally do for primary fermentation, then after it starts to take off I add the rest of the half pee recipe, an add the 3 gallons of tea. Better to brew the tea the same day as you add the rest of the ingredients, and let it cool to room temp before adding, or u could neutralize ur already active yeast


----------



## jamesngalveston

thanks, i want to try it, when i have time.


----------



## dangerdave

Wow! You guys are really going at the DB! Nice!

I made it back from my trip, and plan to do my yeast comparison soon (in the Lab). Glad everyone is making good wine!

I need to upgrade to a way to test my acid levels. I'd like to know where mine sits upon completion, then I can advise others when they ask. That seems to be the only issue for most with the DB; achieving the right acid level for their personal taste.


----------



## jamesngalveston

what acid level....every batch i have made has been perfect. and i get heartburn easy...welcome back dave...


----------



## wildcat2013

Well I don't know what I did wrong, but my 3 gallon batch came out horrible. I bottled it a few months ago and hoped the harshness would go away, but I opened a bottle last night and it's not any better. The closes thing I can compare it to is cough syrup. I think it's time to dump this batch and admit defeat.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have made lots of dragon blood, and lots of variants.
Not sure what you did. None of mine have came out less the excellent.
Maybe in the backsweeten...how was it before you bottled.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm with James. I know it doesn't help, but I have yet to make a batch that wasn't at least very good. The recipe is as fool-proof as I can make it. You (wildcat) may be the first I've heard to make a bad batch.

Don't be affraid to try again. Could just be a fluke.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Now that I have my big batch of db going, I am going to experiment with a db that will hit like 15 to 18 percent and still have balance , flavor , and a nice finish to it.


----------



## Elmer

I have made a bad batch of DB.
Stuff tasted great, but did last long enough!


----------



## jamesngalveston

elmer, you gotta think big.


----------



## Tripplett

Wildcat I am with the rest. Maybe it was a small mistake of teaspoon as compared to a tablespoon? Who knows but at about $20 for 6lbs of fruit, sugar, and stuff I agree to try again. I made mine with quadberry fruit from Trader Joe's (raspberry, blackberry, blueberry, and strawberry). i used just 1 bottle of lemon and back sweetened with only 3 cups after tasting. It was ok after a month. After 3 it was good. Now, after 7 it's awesome. Too bad there are just two bottles left. 

I too made a batch with no lemon. It was strange, like a rose wine but different. When I back sweetened I added 4 cups straight up with no tasting since the prior DB batch was a little under sweetened. Big mistake. I think due to no lemon the sweetness really came through. It's still in the carboy while I figure out if I'm going to blend it with the next batch or bottle it for those that like a sweeter wine.


----------



## FABulousWines

My batch is going good; down to 1.025 last evening. 

Every time I squeeze that fruit bag there is one singular thought that comes to my mind: *Now I know where Dave got the name!* This stuff sure looks like blood! I will, however, need to come up with a more conservative name as my wife is not fond of drinking something with blood in the name. 

I am waiting to taste the end product for inspiration...

And speaking of squeezing the fruit bag...there's not much left to squeeze at this point, LOL.


----------



## jamesngalveston

dragon berry....lol
pretty much just seeds left in the bag


----------



## Tripplett

Since mine has 4 berries I called It" quad berry wine (with just a hint of citrus)". I had to come up with something different as well. The idea of "blood" on the label wasn't going over well. Just make something up.


----------



## beardy

Would the same time frame apply if I used apple juice instead of water in the dragon blood recipe?


----------



## wineforfun

beardy said:


> Would the same time frame apply if I used *apple juice *instead of water in the dragon blood recipe?



Now that is an interesting combo. Let us know how it goes if you try it.


----------



## dangerdave

Funny about the names. Everyone on my end kept turning their noses up at "Skeeter Pee", since the DB was based on Lon's recipe, after all. I came up with the Dragon Blood name---cause of the color---and the folks were fine with that. Must be vamps in my family circle. 

Beardy has a good idea. I have thought of trying Welch's white grape juice as the base liquid, then sugar it up to desired SG, then throw in the berries, but have yet to try it. My wife keeps rolling her eyes whenever I try something new with the DB. She just wants the original. So, every experimental batch has to have an original right next to it. Keeps the wife happy! Happy wife = happy me!


----------



## jamesngalveston

dragonette, lol dave.... guess i will have to call mine drago juice...


----------



## dangerdave

_Dragonette_ was a lighter, friendlier version of the DB. I have to say I was not pleased with the Dragonette. Others might like it, so I included that version in the pdf file. There may be a way to improve the results without lemon juice in the must.


----------



## barryjo

bambiying said:


> Bottled my Skeeter Pee yesterday and it's beautiful. Just started my first batch of Dragon's Blood. Why didn't someone tell me how impossibly hard it is to stuff 6 lbs of fruit into a thigh-hi stocking??? LOL!


 
You might try this. Buy one of those cross-stitch hoops at a hobby or thrift store. About 6" or 7" diameter is about right. Also obtain 2 pieces of wood, 1" by 1" or so and long enough to fit across the fermentation bucket with 3" overlap. That is 4-5 inches longer than the top of the bucket. Fit the stocking onto the hoop and set the hoop over the bucket on the wooden rods. Pour the fruit in, shaking occasionally to settle it. Tie off with a twist tie from a bread wrapper. Or use one from the junk drawer in the kitchen. When done fermenting, squeeze juices out and pitch the stocking. No fuss, no muss. BTW, I use knee highs for this all the time. Great for raisins.
Also, I don't recommend using round wooden dowels for this as they tend to roll out from under the hoop and then you have to go "hoop diving".
You do wash your hands before starting the wine process.




Don't you?


----------



## JetJockey

Hoop diving in DB! That sounds more fun than bobbing for apples. Why wash your hands, as they are supposed to be behind your back?

Great tip for using knee highs!

Thanks Barryjo


----------



## JetJockey

Hey Dave,

Any updates on the oak and back flavoring techniques?


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, Bob, thanks for asking.

For those who haven't heard, I made a batch of DB (back in June, actually) and got it clear. Then, prior to racking it off the fine lees (following clearing by Sparkolloid), I added a cup of toasted French oak and 3# of the same Triple Berry Blend used to make the must to the recieving carboy and racked the DB into it. I let this sit for just under a month---stirring it up at irregular intervals. Last week, being nicely settled out, I racked the DB off the oak and fruit, then back sweetened. It is now resting, waiting to be bottled (soon). It is definitely fruitier (as expected), and the sharp lemon tang has virtually vanished. It is very smooth and falvorful, even at this early juncture. I'll be retasting at bottling (next week, likely), and then at intervals over the next few months---that is if my lovely wife doesn't get into it! She loves her some DB!


----------



## FABulousWines

My first batch is showing all signs of a complete fermentation. It has settled out at 0.992 for the last two days. With all likelihood I will be completing Step 4 tonight.

Every time I have the lid off and my wife walks by, she comments, "looks good" or "smells good" or the one I like, "when are we gonna be able to bottle that?" I may have to hide this batch...

Could be coincidence, but it seemed to me the fruit flies were a tad more with this batch than others I have done recently. 

Anxious to hear results on your testing, Dave. I am thinking about oaking the next batch...


----------



## dangerdave

Wives love it, FAB! You have now entered the *DB Zone*. The first batch is never the last!


----------



## kryptonitewine

I have yet to find someone that doesn't like it. My carboys are full as I'm bulk aging a few kits. I'm dying to start another batch as I'm running low. 

Has anyone bottled in beer bottles like skeeter pee? I'm thinking they would make nice single serving sizes for out by the pool. We drink DB on ice with a little fruit in the glass.


----------



## Elmer

bambiying said:


> Bottled my Skeeter Pee yesterday and it's beautiful. Just started my first batch of Dragon's Blood. Why didn't someone tell me how impossibly hard it is to stuff 6 lbs of fruit into a thigh-hi stocking??? LOL!



I learned that the hard way.
I held the stocking and had my kids dumping the fruit in. While they did this I continue shaking the stocking and letting it all fall in.

This became an Equivalent of a workout, and I dont like mixing working out and wine!

I went and bought a straining bag before I started my next batch!


----------



## ou8amaus

Just tasted my first attempt at DB, really awesome! Thanks Dave for all you diligence with this recipe... I did notice that most of the back sweetening seems to be with granulated sugar (per the recipe), but as I was tasting it last night it reminded me slightly of Grenadine. Considering its low cost, similar color and fruit profile (and I beleive it already contains sorbate)... has anyone tried this yet?


----------



## ou8amaus

Sorry, should have done my research before I posted... It would take over a liter of the grenading to sweeten properly by my calculations, and unless you can get a more naturally based brand, grenadine's first ingredient is high frustose corn syrup, something to be avoided. So considering this, any recommendations for alternative back sweetening?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i make simple syrup from strawberries...i take a 2 lb of strawberries
cut up and add to a pot, with 4 cups sugar,and one cup water. cook it until it reduces by a third, cool and stir in dragon blood.


----------



## jeranis

Has anyone made a batch or Dragon Blood that gives killer headaches?
First batch perfect out of the carboy. Second batch, same method: Headaches after a glass or two.


----------



## Chiumanfu

Maybe on your second batch you mis-measured the kmeta. Wines high in kmeta tend to give me headaches.


----------



## Tess

Its gives me a badddd hang over if I drink to much. I am one who did not like it.
Not my first batch, not until a few months in the bottle. To be fair my kids and family loved it from day one so might just be me. 
I have my second batch going now. Fermentation has slowed down some but that OK by me. Im not in a hurry. It will be done when its done!!


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> i make simple syrup from strawberries...i take a 2 lb of strawberries
> cut up and add to a pot, with 4 cups sugar,and one cup water. cook it until it reduces by a third, cool and stir in dragon blood.



This sounds wonderful James. Im gonna do this with this batch.


----------



## Tess

Ever back sweetened with strawberry glaze. you know, the kind thats in the produce department next to the strawberries. That Thick red glaz in plastic you use for strawberry short cake and strawberry pies? Just popped into my head. Might be good. One pack anyway


----------



## Tess

Experiment!!! I think I might try it. I'll let you know


----------



## Crown_King_Robb

I made a batch of the DB as on the first page of the thread for a 6 gallon batch

Only I altered the recipe, by juicing the triple berry mix with a steam juicer. I may have gone over board though as I juiced 12 pounds of berries.

It's fermented dry and IM almost ready to rack it. It sure is purple and strong smelling. Like maybe too much berry?

Any thoughts or should I prepare to have my guests use this batch as to be mixed in crushed ice , lol


----------



## Tripplett

My only concerns with reducing berries over heat is pectin haze but then again I am fairly new to this. To be honest that is exactly what I did with my first DB for back sweetening - boil 1/2 the sugar with 1lb of berries and a few cups of water. As soon as it started to boil i pulled it and let it cool then added it to the carboy. I thought about a post I read on starting wine like this, boiling the fruit for the must, and how it was discouraged due to the chance of creating pectin haze. Am I remembering this wrong or am I just crazy?


----------



## dangerdave

Pectin haze can be a problem if your adding reduced fruit juice, but it is easy to fix with another dose of pectic enzyme without effecting the wine.

You are all great wine makers! Keep up the good work! I'm at the hospital for my mother-in-law's heart surgery, but tomorrow I'll try to catch up on these posts.


----------



## ou8amaus

jamesngalveston said:


> i make simple syrup from strawberries...i take a 2 lb of strawberries
> cut up and add to a pot, with 4 cups sugar,and one cup water. cook it until it reduces by a third, cool and stir in dragon blood.



That sounds like a great idea, I will try it on my next batch... Do you add any pectin into the mix?


----------



## JetJockey

Dave when using the fruit for back sweetening, should I put it in the mesh bag and squeeze it like done for the must? I thought the mesh bag may make racking it easier.


----------



## bambiying

I'm making my first batch and today was backsweetening day. Of course I was tasting while sweetening. Will some of the tartness subside? It's really tart....too tart. So far I'm liking my plain old skeeter pee more than this.


----------



## kryptonitewine

Asked this on another thread as well


I'm getting ready to start a batch of blueberry DB. I have 9 lbs of fresh blueberries. I cleaned them and froze them. Should I mix them in some water with a Camden tablet or two along with some peptic enzyme before mixing all the ingredients?


----------



## stevolution

Bottled mine tonight came out great and after just over a month... Already tastes much much better then when we tasted and sweetened 10 days ago... The color is amazing to. Your right Dave this has to go in clear bottles... Should have my labels next week sometime ill share when I get them.. Here's a couple pics of our night.. The lighter orange one is island mist kit raspberry dragon fruit which already tastes like heaven and it was just bottled... Anyone who likes the IM kits should deffinetly try that one..


----------



## dangerdave

JetJockey said:


> Dave when using the fruit for back sweetening, should I put it in the mesh bag and squeeze it like done for the must? I thought the mesh bag may make racking it easier.


 
This is the first time I've tried the fruit steeped in the wine after fermentation with the DB. In other wines, I've used raisins, currants, apricots, blueberries, and dried mangos, so I figured soaking the wine with more fruit was worth a try. The DB is pretty cheap, so even if I screw it up (very doubtful), the loss is minimal.

I forced the triple berry fruit and all it's juice through a big funnel into the carboy, and racked the wine onto it. It's another experiment to improve the DB recipe.


----------



## dangerdave

bambiying said:


> I'm making my first batch and today was backsweetening day. Of course I was tasting while sweetening. Will some of the tartness subside? It's really tart....too tart. So far I'm liking my plain old skeeter pee more than this.


 
Like we alway tell eveyone, give it some time. The sweet will blend with the tart over time. Let it sit for a week in the carboy, then bottle. In the first few weeks in the bottle, it will impove dramatically. In a month, it will be very good. It peaks at about six months, becoming a nice light berry blush with a slight hint of lemon.

How much lemon juice did you use in the primary? Some people like a lot. After my first few batches, I reduced the lemon juice to 48oz. That's how I like it.


----------



## dangerdave

kryptonitewine said:


> Asked this on another thread as well
> 
> 
> I'm getting ready to start a batch of blueberry DB. I have 9 lbs of fresh blueberries. I cleaned them and froze them. Should I mix them in some water with a Camden tablet or two along with some peptic enzyme before mixing all the ingredients?


 
That sounds right, krypto. If you are using fresh fruit, you definately want to sanitize it before you mix up your must.

The blueberry DB is very good. I call mine _Jet Blue_. I have several bottles that I have saved for over a year. You will love it!


----------



## dangerdave

The DB looks great, Steve! Nice pics! You get a gold star! 

My wife loves the IM kits. I'll have to try one of the raspberry dragon fruit kits for her.


----------



## bambiying

dangerdave said:


> Like we alway tell eveyone, give it some time. The sweet will blend with the tart over time. Let it sit for a week in the carboy, then bottle. In the first few weeks in the bottle, it will impove dramatically. In a month, it will be very good. It peaks at about six months, becoming a nice light berry blush with a slight hint of lemon.
> 
> How much lemon juice did you use in the primary? Some people like a lot. After my first few batches, I reduced the lemon juice to 48oz. That's how I like it.



I used 48oz. I think I wished I might have used more, but hey, I'll just make more later. Live and learn.....oh, and drink!


----------



## dangerdave

I thought you said it was too tart? Was that "berry tart" or "lemon tart"?


----------



## bambiying

dangerdave said:


> I thought you said it was too tart? Was that "berry tart" or "lemon tart"?



Sorry for the confusion.....it was berry tart.


----------



## Tess

maybe more sugar?


----------



## ShawnDTurner

Needs time in the bottle to mature. What was the final ph?


----------



## PrincessVintah

Ok, here's a couple of questions for DangerDave and all you other Wine Wizards out there.

Mr. Wonderful and I have now successfully made 4 different wines from kits and 2 batches of Dragon's Blood (truly our favorite) and now we're ready to tackle something a little different. We're thinking of a Mango/Jalapeno wine using a combination of the Dragon's Blood recipe and Jack Keller's Jalapeno wine recipe as our base.

My thoughts are to combine the raisins and jalapenos per JK's recipe (increasing the amounts for a 6 gal. batch), add the mango and continue using DD's recipe.

My questions are these:

#1: Because I'm adding jalapenos do you think it's still okay to start with the ReaLemon base of the Dragon's Blood?

#2: Do you think the EC-1118 yeast will still be the correct one for this combination of fruits?

Thanks for any and all replies.


----------



## dangerdave

Princess, I have no idea. You are moving out of my venue with this one. I plan to make some hot pepper wine some day, just not today. I would think the EC-1118 would be a safe bet. Most of the kits use it now-a-days. The lemon juice, I can't help you there, but it sounds good. Spicey-tart with a background hint of mango! How can you go wrong with that? 

I, for one, would like to hear how it turns out. Always looking for new innovative recipes.


----------



## PrincessVintah

Perhaps it's just because I'm married to a Mexican, or perhaps because I love all things spicy, but I am super exited about this one. I want the mango to be the dominant flavor with a spicy kick. Not sure exactly when we'll get it started, but mangos are coming into season now so hopefully soon. I'll keep you posted once we do.


----------



## stevolution

My DB labels are in. We still have to photoshop in some color but this is the basic idea .. Let me know what you think ... 


Also we debuted our DB this past weekend and it was a huge hit between three of us we cleaned out 2 bottles of DB 2 bottles of IM raspberry dragon fruit and a bottle of IM strawberry merlot good time...


----------



## JetJockey

Stevolution, now that's a cool label! You should post in the labels forum! http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f83/post-your-labels-here-31429/index98.html#post441391

Looking forward to see the colorized label!


----------



## stevolution

JetJockey said:


> Stevolution, now that's a cool label! You should post in the labels forum! http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f83/post-your-labels-here-31429/index98.html#post441391
> 
> Looking forward to see the colorized label!



Glad you liked it and thnx for reminding me to put in labels section... Hopefully ill have the color rendition soon


----------



## ou8amaus

Dave, mother in law and swmbo just polished off a couple bottles of db. Major drunken thumbs up everywhere. They are singing 80's songs now. Thanks


----------



## ou8amaus

I should not be allowed into Costco. I just left with frozen fruits and berry mixes galore for some DB experimenting... but they also had 3 liter containers of Dole Tropical Fruit Salad on sale for half price, under $3.00 a container. Tropical fruit, cut up all nicely, in a pre-sugared medium, whats not to love? Has anyone out there tried using "fruit salad" mixes for DB? Any ideas on what qty I would need to produce a decent 23 liter batch, both SG and flavor wise? If my calculations are correct each 3 liter can contains 523g (a little over a pound) of sugar... Thank you advance for any help!


----------



## Elmer

took yesterday day off to recover from 3 day golfing/drinking weekend.

after I mowed the lawn, trimmed hedges and weeded hosta bed, I hung by the pool and drank and entire bottle of DB myself.

I am under the impression I have to drink the entire batch withint 6 months. I have 25 bottles and better get moving!


----------



## stevolution

Coloring contest between my wife and I with our new DB label vote for your favorite and it goes on the bottles ..


----------



## Rampage4all

I'm color blind but I say the purple and gold I think on the right


----------



## beardy

stevolution said:


> Coloring contest between my wife and I with our new DB label vote for your favorite and it goes on the bottles ..



Purple and gold all the way!


----------



## JetJockey

Being from near Pittsburgh, it would have to be Black & Gold! Maybe a compromise with a green and gold, as I like the green, but the gold belly is nicer than orange/pink, IMHO.


----------



## Tess

Purple and Gold. lol. I just racked my DB yesterday and have floaters on top. Probably because I never refrigerated my PE (Blush) I guess I can get rid of the floaters when I rack into the bottling bucket at the end. there is not a lot. I should be able to scoop them out with a spoon


----------



## FABulousWines

*OK, I am in...first batch bottled!*

The DB was clear and I decided to do a mid week bottling. I usually wait for the weekend for something like this, but it was calling, LOL.

We put a bottle in the fridge and chilled out with some Peach Chardonnay to give it some time to chill. I will be honest, I was a bit skeptical at first. I mean, come on, a wine based in lemon juice and fermented on a few pounds of berries? How good can that be?

Pretty darn good in fact. It wasn't as chilled as we usually like it, and the first taste was a bit weird I think due to the peach taste of the prior glass and having to cleanse the palate. But then it came through! Light bodied, but excellent mouth feel. Nice flavor too. At first my wife was put off by the aroma and then I reminded her it was a lemon base and she's like "Ah, that's it". We both raised our glass in honor of Dave.  I expect it will improve some with a bit of age, but as others have said, it is quite drinkable directly from the carboy (fades to scene where he and his wife sit perched with racking canes in carboy sipping away).

I definitely can see this taking a place in our "early drinker" rotation, especially when funds are running low.

So far my three main takeaways from this forum:
1) All in one pump...do it!
2) Floor corker...do it!
3) Dragon Blood...do it!

Thanks all! I am enjoying the ride!


----------



## FABulousWines

Tess said:


> Purple and Gold. lol. I just racked my DB yesterday and have floaters on top. Probably because I never refrigerated my PE (Blush) I guess I can get rid of the floaters when I rack into the bottling bucket at the end. there is not a lot. I should be able to scoop them out with a spoon



Tess, I had a few of those floaters going on in my batch too. Not sure what that was all about, but yeah, easy enough to eliminate them when racking. Didn't seem to affect the outcome as this batch is yummy!


----------



## Tess

FABulousWines said:


> Tess, I had a few of those floaters going on in my batch too. Not sure what that was all about, but yeah, easy enough to eliminate them when racking. Didn't seem to affect the outcome as this batch is yummy!



Looks like tiny pieces of the berry's skin that got through my straining bag. lol yeah not big deal. Not many, just a few


----------



## wineforfun

Purple and Gold. That will look good against the clear red of the DB in the bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

Welcome to the club, FAB!

I also vote for the purple/yellow dragon. Perfect!


----------



## jamesngalveston

well, i will chime in....i am a die hard saints fan...i think a black body with a gold belly with some hot rod red, would be awesome....
cool original label dave,, i thought only tess could could come up with something that good...


----------



## chrisjw

I like the green body with the yellow belly and red eyes, mouth, and horns. Something like this:


----------



## JetJockey

I like Chrisjw's version!


----------



## FABulousWines

dangerdave said:


> Welcome to the club, FAB!
> 
> I also vote for the purple/yellow dragon. Perfect!



Happy to be on board. Do we get membership cards?


----------



## snowgirl812001

You guys think a Pumpkin Spice with this recipe would turn out ok?


----------



## wineforfun

snowgirl812001 said:


> You guys think a Pumpkin Spice with this recipe would turn out ok?



Wow, that is a different one. How do you propose to do that?


----------



## Billberry

*Getting My Feet Wet*

Well, after reading over 100 pages of wild enthusiasm on this thread and the 15 day thread I can't help but get the DB bug so I'm starting a batch of Dave's original recipe Dragon Blood as soon as the berries are thawed.
A lot of the recipes others have tweaked from the original sound great too so I'll probably end up with 60 gallons of different DB batches by Christmas!
Looks like I'll be collecting car keys from peeps over to visit between Christmas and New Year's Eve WooHoo!!
This is only my 3rd batch of wine ever so I hope I can pull this off. Fingers crossed.


----------



## wineforfun

You will be fine. Just follow the instructions and you can't miss. Not sure if Dave has changed them yet or not, but most of us are only using 1 bottle (48oz.)of lemon juice, instead of the two he originally posted.


----------



## jamesngalveston

agree with wineforfun, one bottle of lemon is excellent, two and I got heartburn ...lol
you will be fine, and lots of help here including the man himself, dangerdave


----------



## snowgirl812001

wineforfun said:


> Wow, that is a different one. How do you propose to do that?


 

I have no idea lol. Guess I'm looking for a quick recipe for fall. I obviously wouldn't use lemon juice but I'm no expert so that's why I'm asking.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i would try an apple with brown sugar and spice for winter...you got plenty of apples where you are...


----------



## dangerdave

Billberry said:


> Well, after reading over 100 pages of wild enthusiasm on this thread and the 15 day thread I can't help but get the DB bug so I'm starting a batch of Dave's original recipe Dragon Blood as soon as the berries are thawed.
> A lot of the recipes others have tweaked from the original sound great too so I'll probably end up with 60 gallons of different DB batches by Christmas!
> Looks like I'll be collecting car keys from peeps over to visit between Christmas and New Year's Eve WooHoo!!
> This is only my 3rd batch of wine ever so I hope I can pull this off. Fingers crossed.


 
Good luck, Bill. If you follow the directions, you can't hardly miss. Lots of great folks to help out with advice and questions, should you stumble. We have a league of our own!


----------



## wineforfun

snowgirl812001 said:


> I have no idea lol. Guess I'm looking for a quick recipe for fall. I obviously wouldn't use lemon juice but I'm no expert so that's why I'm asking.



Well, I guess you could make up a 5 or 6 gallon batch and when it has ran dry, rack it to 5 or 6 1 gal. carboys and experiment with pumpkin spice, clove, peppermint, chocolate, etc. in each one to try different things.
Heck, I may try that for a mixed berry/chocolate flavor or a mixed berry/clove flavor.
It is never ending with DB.


----------



## dangerdave

OH, chocolate Dragon Blood! Now you're talking! Might have to follow your lead, DJ, and split a batch for multiple trials. Great idea!


----------



## beardy

Just started my first DB! I honestly just want to drink it now. Had to do multiple taste "tests" to be sure it was right. So goooood!!! 
I'm hoping for a quick ferment so in 2 weeks I can serve some at the party were having. I won't push it but I'll be making sure the conditions are as perfect as possible.


----------



## CBell

Just racked another 6 gallon batch to secondary but added 9# triple berry, 6 in primary and 3 in secondary, and ran out of sugar so half the sweetness is coming from orange clover honey. only 48oz of real lemon this time, since the last batch was a little acidic for my tastes. Can't wait to see how the variations taste.


----------



## CBell

Thinking I will backsweeten with honey as well, given that I currently have more honey on hand than sugar (Not something to complain about, I know. )


----------



## jamesngalveston

it looks like i may have to wait about 6 mos for my last batch to clear..maybe longer.


----------



## snowgirl812001

wineforfun said:


> Well, I guess you could make up a 5 or 6 gallon batch and when it has ran dry, rack it to 5 or 6 1 gal. carboys and experiment with pumpkin spice, clove, peppermint, chocolate, etc. in each one to try different things.
> Heck, I may try that for a mixed berry/chocolate flavor or a mixed berry/clove flavor.
> It is never ending with DB.



Great ideas!! Thanks! Now to go get more 1 gal carboys.....


----------



## dangerdave

Six months?  James, what are you talking about?


----------



## Billberry

I mixed up the must last night for my 1st batch of ruby goodness. Everything went fairly well except for the addition of the tannin. I have never used it before and it was a real pain mixing it into the must. It clumped as soon as I added it.Does anyone have a tip for adding tannin that doesn't make it a 10 minute chore getting it to dissolve?
Once I finished preparing the must it was kind of pale looking like a strawberry lemonade but today when I pitched the yeast it had that signature ruby red glow that I love so much!
I hydrated the 1118 and made a starter by adding a 1/4 cup of the must to it after the 15 minute hydrating schedule. An hour later the yeasties were feasting on it making a nice frothy top on my starter. Pitched it into the fermenter and I hope to see a pink foamy head on it in the morning.
What's the easiest way to add pics to posts here?


----------



## dangerdave

I always add the tannin first, using warmer water to start, so it will desolve better---and stir, stir, stir! Maybe someone else has a better method.

I use Photobucket to post my pics. Link to the picture using the pics icon in the forum post tool bar, and blam! there it is! I think you can also start a picture album here (on this Forum site) somewhere, but you'll have to ask one of the mod/admins about that.

Keep us posted on your progress, Bill, we're alway up for more DB stories!


----------



## Billberry

Hmmm warm water I'll have to try that on my next batch.
Thanks for the advice on the pics Dave now all I have to do is learn how to use Photobucket......
I clicked on the insert image icon just to see what would happen and it asked for a URL: interesting.I'll look into the picture album on this site too.Maybe I can add using" Manage Attachment" button for pics loaded on my computer?
I just love this and the 15 minute thread! It's like a wine making series that I don't want to end!
Bill


----------



## jamesngalveston

dave...my big 2 25 gallon batches, there in the clearing stage...after 2 1/2 weeks maybe the top 1 inch is darker..


----------



## WI_Wino

Nobody believes you until there are pictures of said 25 gallon batches


----------



## jamesngalveston

i just started a small 6 gallon batch of strawberry/mulberry...I added the fruit , water, and pectin...i will wait 12 hours let the fruit break down before i take a sg reading and add sugar...
usually i have taken sg when I add sugar, etc...this time i want the fruit to break down some...see if its different.


----------



## dangerdave

jamesngalveston said:


> dave...my big 2 25 gallon batches, there in the clearing stage...after 2 1/2 weeks maybe the top 1 inch is darker..


 
Did you Sparkolloid those big batches, or did you use something else to clear?


----------



## jamesngalveston

nothing...letting them clear on their own..


----------



## Billberry

My blackberry was something like that James.I racked to secondary to finish off the fermentation and it stayed cloudy for awhile. Then it dropped a couple of inches the next couple of days. Then a couple of days after that I went down to the basement to check it and all the sediment dropped out to the bottom!
Maybe yours will do the same. Hope so anyway....


----------



## jamesngalveston

billberry, we are talking 25 gallon batches. it will take a while...if ever..


----------



## beardy

jamesngalveston said:


> billberry, we are talking 25 gallon batches. it will take a while...if ever..



Just curious but wouldn't you break it up into 5 gal carboys after the ferment was done?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i didnt have 10 5 gallon carboys..i have most tied up...i have a mango,peach,honeydew,welches and two pineapples going.. plus the 75 gallon primary and the two 25 gallon fermenters..I have no room left.


----------



## stevolution

The finished product.. Would have liked to add the color digitally but it was proving to more work than it was worth.. Still came out pretty nice except for the poor picture quality..


----------



## beardy

jamesngalveston said:


> i didnt have 10 5 gallon carboys..i have most tied up...i have a mango,peach,honeydew,welches and two pineapples going.. plus the 75 gallon primary and the two 25 gallon fermenters..I have no room left.



Wow. Thats a lot of drinking to do!


----------



## Tess

Mine has been stabilized and setting in the carboy for over two weeks. lol. I need to run to the wine store for more carboys and bottles lol. Its completely clear I just don't have a carboy free to rack it to.


----------



## Tess

I need at least 2 more carboys!! lol


----------



## cedarswamp

Tess said:


> Mine has been stabilized and setting in the carboy for over two weeks. lol. I need to run to the wine store for more carboys and bottles lol. Its completely clear I just don't have a carboy free to rack it to.



Rack it back to your fermenting bucket, wash your carboy out, and rack back to the carboy...or just bottle out of your bucket.


----------



## Tess

Im out of sorbate too  I know, Im falling apart!!! Its bulk aging


----------



## jamesngalveston

shoot, if its that clear bottle the stuff...


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> shoot, if its that clear bottle the stuff...



I need bottles, carboys and sorbate to sterilize what EVER I put it in !!! Im literately shut down till tomorrow  Its is clear enough to bottle though


----------



## stevolution

Ok so while labeling our DB bottles last night i noticed a small area on the bottom of the bottle that looked like a smudge... After closer examination I found out it is actually on the inside of the bottle and mixes back into the wine if turned over. It's actually on every bottle of DB and seems to be in the the bottom of the bottles where the air bubble rests when the bottles are on there sides. It doesn't really look like a sediment and the wine was completely clear when we bottled(cleared for just over two weeks)
Does anyone have any idea what this may be? I'm just worried its a bacteria or something? I did read about tannin deposits and oxidizing but I'm to new to this to know how to tell? 

Please help
Thnx 
Steve


----------



## jamesngalveston

Tess..I hate it when every thing runs out at one time.
For me its an 85 mile trip to the closest supply store...saw i try to buy in bulk. This morning.....I had one packet of yeast left...dang it.
Now i have to make a 4 to 5 hour trip and get supplies.


----------



## jamesngalveston

steve, did you open a bottle...i would open one and pour in another class container and look at it better...maybe stir it, and see if goes away, are just stays the same...
just trying to help..have no idea what it could be, but im new also.


----------



## stevolution

jamesngalveston said:


> steve, did you open a bottle...i would open one and pour in another class container and look at it better...maybe stir it, and see if goes away, are just stays the same...
> just trying to help..have no idea what it could be, but im new also.



I haven't opened one Ina week or so I will try that though. If I roll the bottle around gently it does clear of the side and mix back in eventually but at first you can see the hazy trail flowing of the side of the bottle. I know this probably makes no sense and I'm trying to explain it the best I can.. I might try to get a picture of it but I'm not sure how well it will come out..


----------



## WI_Wino

It's probably leftovers from the sparkolloid. I have the same stuff in my dragons blood. I have consumed many bottles with no ill side effects.


----------



## cedarswamp

jamesngalveston said:


> Tess..I hate it when every thing runs out at one time.
> For me its an 85 mile trip to the closest supply store...saw i try to buy in bulk. This morning.....I had one packet of yeast left...dang it.
> Now i have to make a 4 to 5 hour trip and get supplies.



James have you tried B&S Brewers Guild in Seabrook? Might save you some time on a pack of yeast.


----------



## Tess

I said Im out of sorbate I meant Kmeta


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> Tess..I hate it when every thing runs out at one time.
> For me its an 85 mile trip to the closest supply store...saw i try to buy in bulk. This morning.....I had one packet of yeast left...dang it.
> Now i have to make a 4 to 5 hour trip and get supplies.



If I just had to go for that alone I think I go mail order and save on gas. lol. Mine is about a 45 min drive


----------



## jamesngalveston

cedarswamp , yes i have been there twice, there more of a beer store, they keep a few things for wine but not much.
was there about 3 weeks ago to buy some super kleer.
i asked for super kleer and the guy said he was suppose to get 5 packets in that day...I bought all 5, and paid for shipping with cash..
Guess what, have never recieved it..lol
Defalcos is the closet for me.
that is 35 miles away, but no traffic.
defalcos is 46 which isnt far, but you may have a 2 hour traffic nightmare.


----------



## Billberry

This is day 2 of my fermentation phase after pitching the yeast. My starting SG was 1.082. Yesterday when I checked the SG it had only dropped to 1.080. I don't know if that was because it went up after adding the fruit bag or because the yeast weren't up to a rolling boil yet.It was sort of a bloom last night. When I checked the bucket this morning it was bubbling along nicely.
My reading tonight was 1.066. Does that sound about right?
This is was what it looked like before I squeezed and stirred this evening.
Most don't probably care what my must looks like but I wanted to see if I could successfully download one to a thread. I promise to download better ones later.
Now if I can just figure out how to insert text below my pics like the rest of you pros do.....


----------



## Tess

It might be that all your sugar was not completely dissolved the first day you took the reading. Looks like a good batch of DB to me. Yes its going down all seems ok. You did good. Just keep squeezing that fruit and following the directions


----------



## jamesngalveston

It looks like a good ferment going there...tops off to you.


----------



## beardy

Billberry said:


> This is day 2 of my fermentation phase after pitching the yeast. My starting SG was 1.082. Yesterday when I checked the SG it had only dropped to 1.080. I don't know if that was because it went up after adding the fruit bag or because the yeast weren't up to a rolling boil yet.It was sort of a bloom last night. When I checked the bucket this morning it was bubbling along nicely.
> My reading tonight was 1.066. Does that sound about right?
> This is was what it looked like before I squeezed and stirred this evening.
> Most don't probably care what my must looks like but I wanted to see if I could successfully download one to a thread. I promise to download better ones later.
> Now if I can just figure out how to insert text below my pics like the rest of you pros do.....



Yay that what mine looks like! Phew I was worried I had a lot of that foamy stuff. I used the 71B1122 based on DD's yeast comparison. The temp got up to 90° inside though and I moved it to the evap cooler. Hope that didn't hurt it. It should be mid 70's in there this morning.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I am not sure that all of the products we use are quality controlled so to speak..Case in point.
I start all my wines the exact same way, I start them at the exact sg of 1.110, I use the same yeast (pasteur red). I use the same nutrient/energizer in the same amounts everytime.
I get different kind of ferments.
I have a strawberry going now...Day 1, agressive ferment,day 2, slower
day 3, you can barely tell its fermenting, but a hydrometer will not lie.
Its fermenting fast,but shows no visible signs other then millions of tiny sparkly bubbles...


----------



## Billberry

beardy said:


> Yay that what mine looks like! Phew I was worried I had a lot of that foamy stuff. I used the 71B1122 based on DD's yeast comparison. The temp got up to 90° inside though and I moved it to the evap cooler. Hope that didn't hurt it. It should be mid 70's in there this morning.



I need to buy an in- bucket thermometer but my room temp is staying between 74-78 degrees. I wouldn't think air temp would equal liquid temp but IDK. I doubt 90 F did any harm since you caught it and it is still fermenting nicely.
I was going to use 1122 based on it's profile for fruit but I forgot I bought some and used the recipe's recommended 1118. My 1122 will get a test run once this one leaves the fermenter. 
Thanks for the words of encouragement James and Tess. This is only my 3rd batch of wine and only my 2nd type so I'm pretty stoked about this one turning out right.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Billberry, buy yourself a digital thermometer like you would use in cooking, has a probe with a wire about 3 foot long on it...about 19 dollars, but very accurate.
I check my must temp daliy when fermenting..
example: ambient temp in house where wine primary is...78 degrees
internal temp of must...84 degrees. and have had one go to 92 degrees.


----------



## dangerdave

I was going to field a few questions, but sounds like the DB crew has it covered. You guys rule!

Bill, yours looks great! Nice ferment going.

Steve, a little sediment will not hurt a thing. DB is a quick wine, so having a bit of sediment is inevitable. I got tried of it myself, so I now filter mine before bottling. Filtered DB sparkles like a ruby!

The batches from the yeast comparison are getting nice and clear. I'll be tasting them and comparing color and aroma again soon. Then I'll back sweeten and wait for the final tally.


----------



## dangerdave

My most recent variation on the DB was an attempt to infuse more berry flavor into the DB. As some of you might remember, I did this by first making a batch of DB per recipe, then, after it was clear, I racked it into a carboy containing 3 lbs of the same triple berry blend as in the primary. I thawed the frozen fruit first, then added it and all the assocoated juices to the carboy along with one cup of toasted French oak. I left the fruit and oak in there for about 3 weeks.

Needless to say, it came out with an astounding amount of rich berry flavor, and a slightly deeper red color. The process seems to have pushed the lemon far to the rear, giving the berries free and total reign. I recommend giving this a try. It might be your new favorate.

My wife has taken to calling it "Flaming Dragon"...because it's _fruitier_!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dave, after adding your fruit blend back to the carboy, did it clear well.


----------



## dangerdave

I stirred the fruit up in the wine several times a week. After racking the wine off the fruit and oak, it cleared back up quickly, as I recall. I don't have my notes with me, but I don't think I added anything else except sugar.

I gave the wife several gallon jugs to drink off of, and bottled the rest with instructions not to touch. I want to see how it ages.


----------



## JetJockey

Dave,
Thanks for the update! I've been awaiting your report before starting a new batch. I was looking for more berry flavor. A local judge had commented about lack of berry flavor!

Does the oak come through very strong or just a hint? Tried any with just the extra berry kick without oak?

Thanks again for sharing your wealth of DB knowledge!


----------



## cedarswamp

dangerdave said:


> I stirred the fruit up in the wine several times a week. After racking the wine off the fruit and oak, it cleared back up quickly, as I recall. I don't have my notes with me, but I don't think I added anything else except sugar.
> 
> I gave the wife several gallon jugs to drink off of, and bottled the rest with instructions not to touch. I want to see how it ages.



Dave I just bottled a skeeter pee from Lon's original recipe( 'cept for kicking up the SG to 1.100) that I've been aging since November. While very drinkable young it does improve a lot with age.


----------



## Billberry

I should have been checking my must temp with the digital cooking thermometer that I use for checking water temp to rehydrate my yeast packs.
It's not as nice as the one you have James but it gives the temp in tenths of a degree even though it only has a 6" stainless probe. It'll do for now. Day 3:
Room temp: 77 degrees
Must temp: 80.7 degrees
SG: 1.044


----------



## Xandra

Nice, Steve


----------



## ou8amaus

dangerdave said:


> after it was clear, I racked it into a carboy containing 3 lbs of the same triple berry blend as in the primary. I thawed the frozen fruit first, then added it and all the assocoated juices to the carboy



Hi Dave, could you clarify, did you add the extra 3lbs after adding sorbate? If extra fruit for flavor and back-sweetening did you reduce amount if sugar you added at end?

Thank you


----------



## jamesngalveston

Billberry, that will work just fine, easy to clean, and accurate. I check mine daily.. One time on a fig, the must temp got up to 95 degrees, i thought it ruined..I put a wet blanket around it and a fan blowing on it. and it made.
The room temp was 78.


----------



## beardy

I have a DB question...
I only have 2 5gallon carboys so I used the DD DB recipe exactly to make 6 gallons to put 3/4 gallon away for back sweetening and so that after racking ill have some for topping. 

I have the 3/4 gal in a refrigerator and was wondering if I should be letting it clear some how or if I should just be ok with small fruit particles in the finished product when I back sweeten. I will probably strain for very large pieces of the berries. 

And just for clarity (pun intended) I made the must and I took the 3/4 gal just before pitching the yeast. So its the same 1.082 I started with. Plus the nutrient/pectic/tannin. 
Should I be concerned about this? I wont be adding any until I've added sorbate and kmeta. It tastes amazing as it is so hopefully it won't affect the taste once blended. 

Could I maybe bentonite or sparkelloid to clear it up some? Or just leave it unfined. (Filtering is not a possibility as of now)

Thanks all!!


----------



## dangerdave

JetJockey said:


> Dave,
> Thanks for the update! I've been awaiting your report before starting a new batch. I was looking for more berry flavor. A local judge had commented about lack of berry flavor!
> 
> Does the oak come through very strong or just a hint? Tried any with just the extra berry kick without oak?
> 
> Thanks again for sharing your wealth of DB knowledge!


 
It gave it only the slightest hint of oak---my wife didn't even notice, and she's not a big oaking fan. The berriness definately took over. I think this is what you're looking for.

Oh, and you are very welcome.


----------



## Billberry

Hey Dave are you waiting to see if the oak comes forward more as it ages in the bottles you stashed or are you going to make another batch using more oak or are you happy with the amount of oaking on this batch?


----------



## dangerdave

I'm happy with it. I think I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Winofarmer

My last 2 batchs of DB I have used 12 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend Fruit in the primary and it gives a great berry flavor but still have a little lemon tartness and is a deep red color....I think it will be my standard recipe!!!


----------



## Tess

Just racked and back sweetened my second batch of DB. Its beautiful because it has set for over two weeks. I tasted it and the taste is great but it almost has this tangy fizzy taste to it. Im hoping it goes away after a couple months in the bottle. Out of all the wines Iv made my family and Friends like the original recipe of DB the best. Is so clear now I'll probably bottle next week. I always use just a little less lemon then the recipe calls for

Iv made a back and Blue (Blackberry Blueberry) version that I thought was gross but after a few months in the bottle its actually pretty great also!!


----------



## chrisjw

Just flavored 3 gallons of cleared skeeter pee with 4 cups of mashed triple berry. Tastes great. I wonder how it compares to Dragon's Blood. Dragon's Blood will be my next.


----------



## wineforfun

Trying a variant of DB. I will keep all posted. I have made almost all of Dave's variations so decided to try one of my own. I am substituting the 1 bottle of lemon juice with lime juice. Also, going with the 71-B yeast. After ferment is done, which should be in the next few days and I get it cleared, backsweetened, etc., I will then add dark chocolate chunks to 1 gal. of it, and let it age on that for awhile. Hoping for a chocolate/berry DB with a different acid type from the traditional lemon. May be a bust, but I am planning on it turning out well.


----------



## Tess

30 bottles of dragons blood done!!! I just love the color


----------



## jamesngalveston

very very nice tess...nice job
what kind of corker are you using. corks look exactly the same in every bottle...
mine will be off just a tad...


----------



## jamesngalveston

and forgot, whats the other carboy to the left, pineapple....


----------



## dangerdave

That's beautiful, Tess! Great job! I wish I could like it twice!


----------



## Tess

Thanks Dave. your the man after all!!! 
James its a kit. Its from Cornucopia its the White Peach Sauvignon Blanc. Added about 4 lbs of sugar to the primary to up the ABV. 
Probably wont use the whole fruit pack because I heard it very very sweet. Smells like butt right now  I hear it gets better. lol. Its my first Cornucopia kit. 
Its low in the carboy because its still perking and throwing off C02. When I rack it to the next carboy I will have to top it off but I started it in the bucket. 
My family loves the cheap little kits. I make a couple of those then move on to the better stuff that I need to age.

Oh, I used my old hand corker. My floor corker broke so I send it back for replacement


----------



## jamesngalveston

that always gets me, smells like butt, looks like crap, then later on down the road, it looks beautiful and taste wonderful...all bout wine making i guess. I like the fact you used all clear bottles....I keep mine seperate just for my dragon bloods.


----------



## Tess

I use green bottles for my red long agers!! This wont last two months.
I just drank two bottles. Its bottling day after all!! lol
Iv only made two batches of dragons blood and this one is fantastic right out of the carboy!!
Its weird how different and how much better this batch is from my first. 
that one needed to age a couple months! this one is fantastic now!! Whats up with that??


----------



## JetJockey

Tess said:


> Its weird how different and how much better this batch is from my first.
> that one needed to age a couple months! this one is fantastic now!! Whats up with that??



Tess,
Is this the Original recipe? One or two bottles of lemon? What did you do differently between the batches, i.e. same yeast, berry blend, starting SG, fermenting temp, fermenting time, additives, etc.?


----------



## CBell

Tess, I am just racking my second batch of DB from secondary onto some kmeta this evening. Stole a sip, and tasted much better than the last batch. 

I think the main difference for me with the second batch: TIME. The first batch I felt rushed to get everything done, rack, clear, stabilize, backsweet, I felt like I was on a time line. Now, with my personal life getting busier and my work life getting busier,and 6 or 7 batches of wine in carboys, I don't have the time to adhere to a quick timeline for all of it. As a result, it's on the extra fruit longer, unintentionally 'bulk aging'


----------



## Tess

JetJockey said:


> Tess,
> Is this the Original recipe? One or two bottles of lemon? What did you do differently between the batches, i.e. same yeast, berry blend, starting SG, fermenting temp, fermenting time, additives, etc.?



I never even used one whole bottle but I didn't the first batch either!! yes other then that I stuck to the original recipe



CBell said:


> Tess, I am just racking my second batch of DB from secondary onto some kmeta this evening. Stole a sip, and tasted much better than the last batch.
> 
> I think the main difference for me with the second batch: TIME. The first batch I felt rushed to get everything done, rack, clear, stabilize, backsweet, I felt like I was on a time line. Now, with my personal life getting busier and my work life getting busier,and 6 or 7 batches of wine in carboys, I don't have the time to adhere to a quick timeline for all of it. As a result, it's on the extra fruit longer, unintentionally 'bulk aging'



Im very patient. I never feel rushed as as matter is fact I don't like to feel rushed. Even
with my fermentation. I always take my tme!! What ever it is I like this batch so much more!!

I need to get started on another one as soon as possible!! the difference in this one is I topped it off with a bottle is my own mango!! If that's it I will save a bottle for this next batch!!



Tess said:


> I need to get started on another one as soon as possible!! the difference in this one is I topped it off with a bottle is my own mango!! If that's it I will save a bottle for this next batch!!



that bottle of mango is a messed up kit that I fixed...Lord. Long story!!


----------



## jamesngalveston

did you use the same yeast, the same brand of berries, etc.
I made one batch that tasted terrible, my own fault. I added something to it in a much larger qty, then i should have..after a 6 weeks it was good.


----------



## dangerdave

Sonuds like everyone is getting their Dragon Blood _ON_! Great to hear it! I made the very first batch of DB two years ago this month. Bottled around 9-11-11. With the first taste, I thought, _I gotta tell people about this!_ I don't remember who my first "convert" was. Anyone?


----------



## wineforfun

Tess said:


> I just drank two bottles. Its bottling day after all!! lol



If I just drank two bottles, I would be writing all kinds of crazy things on here. 1 bottle does me just fine.


----------



## LonelyMassachusetts

Has anyone used a brand other than ReaLemon in their skeeter pee? Did it still come out good?


----------



## Tess

wineforfun said:


> If I just drank two bottles, I would be writing all kinds of crazy things on here. 1 bottle does me just fine.



Its funny you should mention that. I did. It was bottling day and my vacation. I was put in the corner (banned for 24 hours) before the night was over and rightly so lol. Lesson learned!!! don't get on here bottling day. Wow, did I have a headache the next morning!!



JetJockey said:


> Tess,
> Is this the Original recipe? One or two bottles of lemon? What did you do differently between the batches, i.e. same yeast, berry blend, starting SG, fermenting temp, fermenting time, additives, etc.?



No, well everything but the lemon. I dont even use the full large bottle. I get the next size down. What I did different was top off with a bottle of very sweet (to sweet for me) bottle of Mango wine I had and did not know what to do with.
It is very good but i will always use fresh mango's in it from here on out.
Thats just my taste. 
Im just not a big raspberry fan unless its covered in chocolate. It did had a lot of raspberry taste to it. But even that subsided over time in the bottle and blended better with the other fruits. Its very good!!



CBell said:


> Tess, I am just racking my second batch of DB from secondary onto some kmeta this evening. Stole a sip, and tasted much better than the last batch.
> 
> I think the main difference for me with the second batch: TIME. The first batch I felt rushed to get everything done, rack, clear, stabilize, backsweet, I felt like I was on a time line. Now, with my personal life getting busier and my work life getting busier,and 6 or 7 batches of wine in carboys, I don't have the time to adhere to a quick timeline for all of it. As a result, it's on the extra fruit longer, unintentionally 'bulk aging'



Exactly. It was my first batch of wine I ever made. I think I was just so nervous about every little thing that it showed in the final product a bit. for on thing I dont think I squeezed the fruit pack enough and wasnt even sure I was reading the Hydrometer correctly. Even then time made it work. Im out of that first batch because everyone loved it but I got to enjoy my last bottle and I was so surprised I had to give it another go.



LonelyMassachusetts said:


> Has anyone used a brand other than ReaLemon in their skeeter pee? Did it still come out good?



I use the Walmart brand


----------



## jamesngalveston

you were banned for 24 hours....dang i guess i am in good company so to speak .lol


----------



## Tess

Your to finny james!!


----------



## Tess

Finny??  I mean funny James!!


----------



## Tess

Just for the record!! I hope I never again disrespect these good people enough to where they feel they need to cut me off. These are the people who taught me and continue to teach me!! I have so much respect for them and I am so thankful!! Im not even sure where this should be posted but it came up here so here it is!!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Tess, I agree with you 100 percent...these are good people and have a good agenda. End of statement...I could say more, but elect not too. 
I look forward to your post, and your insight in to what you are doing.
With out you and others, this would not be the same place.


----------



## beardy

I'm 2 glasses into my first bottle (have given 2 of 9 away). I was nervous and have put it off but holy moly this stuff is GOOD!! I don't see a long shelf life for the last 6 bottles! I just wanna thank everyone who gave me advice and helped me along the way! This place is great and I couldn't ask for more!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I see bigger carboys in your future...lol


----------



## Billberry

beardy said:


> I'm 2 glasses into my first bottle (have given 2 of 9 away). I was nervous and have put it off but holy moly this stuff is GOOD!! I don't see a long shelf life for the last 6 bottles! I just wanna thank everyone who gave me advice and helped me along the way! This place is great and I couldn't ask for more!



I'm so glad to hear yours turned out great Beardy. But I'm jealous because you are already drinking yours and I'm still degassing mine! I can't wait until I have the funds for my AIOWP. Mix-stir degassing is no fun.
I want this batch ready for Labor Day so I'm using Super-Kleer for the faster clearing time. I'll post pics soon. At least it looks awesome but still has a "young" smell to it. I'm hoping the degassing cures some of that.

Bill


----------



## kryptonitewine

LonelyMassachusetts said:


> Has anyone used a brand other than ReaLemon in their skeeter pee? Did it still come out good?



I've never used real lemon. I use whatever is on sale. Lots of other folks do as well. No worries just make it and then start flavoring, changing the recipe etc.


----------



## Elmer

LonelyMassachusetts said:


> Has anyone used a brand other than ReaLemon in their skeeter pee? Did it still come out good?



I made a 1 gallon batch of SP, using all natural, all organic lemon juice.
It came out super tasty.

But at over $5 for 12 or 14 oz, I have opted to make my next 6 gallons with the lesser organic "reallemon".

it's all good!


----------



## jamesngalveston

i used red grapefruit juice once, and it was good...squeezed the grapefruits myself.


----------



## RotGut76

My batch of DB is coming along nicely!! I was curious about back sweetening. I would like to back sweeten using a small, maybe 1lb bag, of the triple berry mix and some granulated sugar. 

Would I have to add pectic enzyme to the new sugar/fruit combo even though I added it at the beginning of the process? 

I have read threads regarding making an F pack so I'm guessing this would be the same thing?

If I do add the pectic enzyme how much should I use?


----------



## jamesngalveston

if you mix your berry blend with sugar and cook on med until all the sugar is incorporated, i would say no...your basically making a simple syrup and replacing the water with juice from the berrys...there really is no need for pectin enzyme, expecially since your adding it to an all ready alcohol enviroment.
my take...others may think and act differently...i do not advise, only point out alternatives..


----------



## jamesngalveston

pineapple made with dragonblood recipe, day 11, needs little more clearing.


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> pineapple made with dragonblood recipe, day 11, needs little more clearing.



Let me know how it works out. How much pineapple did you use?


----------



## Tess

As far as back sweetening gos and the simple syrup. I don't even bother. I dump the sugar in. I Stir it really well then let it set all night to make sure the sugar is dissolved then I start to degas. All the degassing gets it mixed in very well


----------



## jamesngalveston

tess the wine is very good, i used 12each 30 ounce cans of dole pineapple juice. after it was degassed, i added one 30 ounce can mixed with 5 cups sugar to give it just a hint more flavor.

i dont measure sugar at start, i just start out a 1.110 on hydrometer.


----------



## dangerdave

RotGut76 said:


> My batch of DB is coming along nicely!! I was curious about back sweetening. I would like to back sweeten using a small, maybe 1lb bag, of the triple berry mix and some granulated sugar.
> 
> Would I have to add pectic enzyme to the new sugar/fruit combo even though I added it at the beginning of the process?
> 
> I have read threads regarding making an F pack so I'm guessing this would be the same thing?
> 
> If I do add the pectic enzyme how much should I use?


 
Hey, RotGut! I agree with James. He has made a lot of DB, in many variations, so follow his lead. You're not going to get a whole lot of liquid out of that 1 pound of fruit, so you may have to add a little bit of water if you want to use, say, four or five cups of sugar. A simple syrup would have a 2:1 ratio of sugar to water. No pectic enzyme required if you added it earlier in the primary.

Great idea, though. I have used the fruit (with suagr) to back sweeten before. It produces a very appealing deeper fruity flavor and color. You'll love it!


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> tess the wine is very good, i used 12each 30 ounce cans of dole pineapple juice. after it was degassed, i added one 30 ounce can mixed with 5 cups sugar to give it just a hint more flavor.
> 
> i dont measure sugar at start, i just start out a 1.110 on hydrometer.



I been thinking of using juice instead of all that water. Like Maybe apple juice and Black berrys for a BlackJack


----------



## jamesngalveston

that sounds like an interesting one...apples would give it delicate taste, blackberrys can be pungent and acidic.

beardy, if u around.
some freinds came over last night and I was making some redandblack.
had not added the yeast.
we mixed some of the juice with some vodka and made high octane 
smoothies......had to make more juice this am to start my wine..we drank a lot.


----------



## Elmer

We had our annual block party last night. One if the neighbors was drinking a white wine with fruit in it my wife mentioned my wine making and had me run home for a bottle of dragon blood. 3 o the neighborhood women devoured the bottle in minutes. One of them became suck a fan she offered to buy bottled off of me ( I refused ) she offered to put money in an envelope and leave it under a black glass like rock ( I refused). Finally I told her I have no problem adding her name to my holiday wine gift list.
Looks like I will have to make another batch of DB after I finish some SP.

But 3 more converts to DB!


----------



## jamesngalveston

try a batch of blackandred (blackberries and strawberries) its very good.


----------



## beardy

jamesngalveston said:


> beardy, if u around.
> some freinds came over last night and I was making some redandblack.
> had not added the yeast.
> we mixed some of the juice with some vodka and made high octane
> smoothies......had to make more juice this am to start my wine..we drank a lot.



Hahaha I absolutely believe it!!


----------



## Tripplett

Elmer said:


> Looks like I will have to make another batch of DB after I finish some SP.
> But 3 more converts to DB!


You could always point them here and show them how to make it themselves..


----------



## Tess

I already have to start another batch. Mine is almost half gone already with the help of my son! lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

Im having a bbq today, i just put out a 5 gallon container with ice packs outside, and my helpers are into it all ready...party starts at 6.
i made 5 gallons of gin and tonics with fresh lime also..I am in that....lol


----------



## beardy

Bottled my 5 gallons tonight. I used all my clear bottles for my Skeeter Juice so I had mostly Chardonnay and Merlot bottles. Also I just ran out so the last gallon just went into a jug. I'm figuring that will be the first to go when the Lady gets into it ha!


----------



## jamesngalveston

looks good....better get some chilled down.....


----------



## dangerdave

Nice variety, beardy! Keep speading the word!

Elmer's making converts. I made this for my wife, originally, so the ladies _really_ love it! I know, guys like it, too!


----------



## beardy

Here's my label.


----------



## wineforfun

Tess said:


> Your to *finny *james!!




Tess,
You "bottling" again?


----------



## jamesngalveston

yellow blood, made from 100% dole pineapple (juice)....4 30 oz cans each gallon, with a little top off with polish vodka...kick it up a notch....


----------



## JetJockey

James,
When you say "4 30 oz cans each gallon", what do you mean? For a 6 gallon batch, would that be 24 of the 30 oz cans of pineapple juice and enough sugar to reach your starting SG of 1.10? Do you add water to get to the 6 gallon mark?


----------



## jamesngalveston

yea 24 cans, each can is 30 oz...and added sugar to get to 1.110 .
i added water to get to get to 6 gallons...
then racked to a 5 gallon with some topping off material.
i bought an xtra can and made a simple syrup out of it with sugar to sweeten . it was really dry ...
but its excellent wine.
so the juice (bought on sale) was 40.00 plus a few bucks for chemicals, plus about 8 in sugar..
thats about 50 buck for 15 bottles of high abv wine...
cant go wrong


----------



## JetJockey

James,
Thanks! It sounds great. All of these super recipes to try! What do I make next?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i think that just about anything will work...maybe not beets....i hate beets.
black and blue is good blueberry/blackberry
red and black is good strawberry/blackberry
green and gold is good kiwi/banana
yellow and purple is good cantaloupe/welches
red and yellow is good cantaloupe/strawberry
green and yellow is good kiwi/honeydew

since discovering dave the mans dragon blood.
i make every wine as dragon blood regardless of what it is.
i have made so much that I have a pile aging, and so far
out of maybe 50 tasters, not one single person did not like it.
thats all i care about...if i like it and my snobby, so called wine people, friends like it...its done deal


----------



## JoyofWine

Beardy~ Love the label!


----------



## dangerdave

jamesngalveston said:


> since discovering dave the mans dragon blood.
> i make every wine as dragon blood regardless of what it is.
> i have made so much that I have a pile aging, and so far
> out of maybe 50 tasters, not one single person did not like it.
> thats all i care about...if i like it and my snobby, so called wine people, friends like it...its done deal


 
I wish I could express how pleased I am that so many people are using the recipe in so many variations. I never knew it could be so versatile.

Way to go, James! All of you are showing me more uses for this recipe every day. I'm going to have to branch out with it a little more this winter, to stock up for next summer. Right now, with several hundred bottles already gracing my racks, I'm running out of room! The holidays are coming, though. That will clear out some rack space, for sure!

Keep at it! I'm taking notes!


----------



## jamesngalveston

all i can say is Thank You..for your vision into this specatacle of wine making.


----------



## beardy

jamesngalveston said:


> all i can say is Thank You..for your vision into this specatacle of wine making.



Amen. What he said, and DITTO!!!


----------



## Tess

wineforfun said:


> Tess,
> You "bottling" again?



Not yet. must have not had my reading glasses on


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> i think that just about anything will work...maybe not beets....i hate beets.
> black and blue is good blueberry/blackberry
> red and black is good strawberry/blackberry
> green and gold is good kiwi/banana
> yellow and purple is good cantaloupe/welches
> red and yellow is good cantaloupe/strawberry
> green and yellow is good kiwi/honeydew
> 
> since discovering dave the mans dragon blood.
> i make every wine as dragon blood regardless of what it is.
> i have made so much that I have a pile aging, and so far
> out of maybe 50 tasters, not one single person did not like it.
> thats all i care about...if i like it and my snobby, so called wine people, friends like it...its done deal



I'll bet someone somewhere has made a batch of beat wine!! lol


----------



## Tess

Nice Label beardy!!


----------



## RotGut76

I just started the clearing process on my DB. It looks smells and tastes great so far. I can't wait to back sweeten and, of course, bottle and drink. I need more patience.

I think the next batch I will use this instead of berry blend:





6lb bad $8.


----------



## Crown_King_Robb

could use some advice. Made my Dragon's blood about a month and a half ago, have racked and degassed several times and this weekend ran it through a 1 micron filter. 

Problem is its way too tart and too much berry flavor.

What I did different from the instructions is that instead of must-fermenting, I used a steam juicer to the get the berries juiced out and only used the juice. The recipe called for 6lbs of berries normally. I juiced out 12lbs thinking that I needed to make possible differences. I also used both bottles of the lemon juice and now see that only one bottle is recommended. My wine is not red but purple at this time. I back sweetened with a couple of cups of sugar and even tried mixing in some sprite to a glass of it, and its "too much".

Here is what Im thinking and want to see what you think:

Im thinking I need to thin out my batch by almost half. If I do that with straight water I will also reduce the alcohol content. Im thinking I could water down a glass or two of what I have find out the right ration where the flavor mellows, and then make some sugar water and throw some yeast and tannin in it, and ferment that into something that I can cut my original batch by.

Does that sound reasonable ?

thanks,
Robb


----------



## wineforfun

The tartness will subside over the next few months. Not completely go away, but mellow quite a bit. The berry flavor however, will probably stay. Not sure how to get rid of the berry flavor without diluting it, which like you say, will cut the ABV down. 
Personally, I would leave it alone and make another batch (according to the instructions) and mix them together, if you don't like this batch.


----------



## Crown_King_Robb

jamesngalveston said:


> i think that just about anything will work...maybe not beets....i hate beets.
> black and blue is good blueberry/blackberry
> red and black is good strawberry/blackberry
> green and gold is good kiwi/banana
> yellow and purple is good cantaloupe/welches
> red and yellow is good cantaloupe/strawberry
> green and yellow is good kiwi/honeydew
> 
> since discovering dave the mans dragon blood.
> i make every wine as dragon blood regardless of what it is.
> i have made so much that I have a pile aging, and so far
> out of maybe 50 tasters, not one single person did not like it.
> thats all i care about...if i like it and my snobby, so called wine people, friends like it...its done deal





I had a similar thought as James is doing and this last weekend I steam-juiced out a bucket of ripe* prickly pear *fruit and started fermenting to the basic Skeeter pee/Dragons blood recipe'. I did add 1 lb of raisins though as a must while it ferments, and I had to use Montrachet yeast instead since thats all I had on hand. 

The prickly pears juiced out really easy with the steamer. I didnt have to pull or burnish spines or anything. Got a lot of juice out of them too. They have a distinctive flavor already so it may take some doing to get the blend right so the taste is smooth. May take more aging ? I dont know but Im going to find out.


----------



## dangerdave

Robb, that might work. I've heard of others doing something like that. I believe it's called Water Wine. nothing but water, sugar, and yeast---some tannin wouldn't hurt, as you mentioned---then use that product to cut your overly tart DB. I think it's still saveble.

I'm going to change the recipe to recommend 48oz of lemon juice and then suggest more _if desired_. Right now it says to use 96oz and use less if desired. My apologies if the recipe was confusing on that note. But thanks for the info. Hopefully your example will keep others from making the same mistake.


----------



## Crown_King_Robb

Thanks for the feedback Dave. Im stopping by the brew-shoppe tonite for some supplies.

My other thought was to just cut it with water, and be done with it, for a triple berry cider or whatever it would be called... a wine cooler ? I dont know...

Ill be sure to come back with results so that anyone else wanting to do a steam juice application on the berries will have some info from my experience. Right now I can tell you dont do 12lbs in the steam juicer. Its toooooo much. haha.


----------



## RotGut76

I started my batch of, yet to be named, tropical blend skeeter pee. It already took on a beautiful color. And it smells delicious. I can't wait for this one!!





The pic was taken after I added the fruit. I just removed the bag for the photo.


----------



## petey

My Tropical Breeze
1 can pineapple juice
In straining bag:6# peaches,2# mango, 4 banana
Same nutrients as DB
Water and inverted sugar to SG 1.075
Total volume 7 gal.
When SG .992 stabilized waited 1 week
Back sweeten w/ 1 can pineapple concentrate SG .996
Sat for a week still was quite cloudy
Racked add 30 oz orange/ pineapple , couldn't find that pineapple concentrate
Hit it with super kleer and you see the results..taste great F SG 1.010


----------



## jpsmithny

Just started my first batch the other day. It has a wonderful color to it. The only change I made was adding another three pounds of fruit blend to the primary.

Can't wait to try it.


----------



## Crown_King_Robb

Crown_King_Robb said:


> Thanks for the feedback Dave. Im stopping by the brew-shoppe tonite for some supplies.
> 
> My other thought was to just cut it with water, and be done with it, for a triple berry cider or whatever it would be called... a wine cooler ? I dont know...
> 
> Ill be sure to come back with results so that anyone else wanting to do a steam juice application on the berries will have some info from my experience. Right now I can tell you dont do 12lbs in the steam juicer. Its toooooo much. haha.




Ooooookkkkkayyyyy. Hmmm. Not what I expected.

Tonites results from a six pack of wine tasters and me and my measuring cup decanter...

I need to cut my batch by only 1/3.... According to those that like me felt it was overwhelming. 1 part existing and 1/3 part water-wine.

Half the group also liked it the way it is now even though I think it leaned a little towards mad dog 20/20. Just for a different Summer Time experience.

Looks like I'm going to make both versions. Everyone's pretty stoked actually.


----------



## dangerdave

Good to get feedback, Robb. You might want to keep a few bottles of the full strength version for tasting in a few months. Wines, as you no doubt already know, really change as they sit in the bottle.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I have a quick question about your recipe! I want to start a batch this week. I have the largest bottle I could get at Walmart of realemon juice. It's the large one. It's 945ml which is a hair less than 32oz. The recipe calls for one 48 oz bottle? Is there another size bottle that I can't find? How much would the recipe change if I just used 32oz? Or should I just buy another bottle? Thanks! Excited to try this!


----------



## dangerdave

I know some folks with acid relux have made it with less than 48oz, with good results. I think you'd be fine. If you're concerned, look for a 16oz bottle to add to what you have. It doesn't have to be Realemon. Other brands will work just fine.

Or just go with what you have. It'll work.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks very much! Decisions! I'll figure it out!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Has anyone tried adding Concord grapes to this recipe? If so, how much did you add and how much did it change the flavor profile of this recipe - good or bad? I tried to do a search on this but didn't come up with anything. Thanks!


----------



## Tess

I dont use but half that much and I like it fine


----------



## jamesngalveston

I did try concord grapes, but did not care for it...but when i made a dragon
blood using all concord it was excellent..
i think the mix of grapes and berries is not good....
i think grapes should be just that, grape wine with out any other fruit.
thats just me..maybe others have a different view...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks Tess and James! I'll keep it simple as I could only find the 4 berry blend at Walmart anyways so it won't be 100% true to the original recipe anyway. Well here's to a my life before DB! I'll be starting mine tonight! This should keep us out of our other wines that must age!


----------



## jamesngalveston

sorry to say, you will be making more and more and more...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha! I am glad I found this forum and all these awesome recipes! Going to be an adventure for sure!


----------



## ckvchestnut

I was really lucky to get this 10 or 11 gallon fermenting pail yesterday, so I am very excited that my 6 gallon batch of "quad berry" pee has tons of space above my fruit. Can I skip the step of removing the fruit to stir vigorously daily? As long as I stir and squeeze correct? I probably have 18 to 24 inches of extra space... And I modified so I could make a bit extra in case I need top up.


----------



## jamesngalveston

sure, with that much room, i would leave the fruit in, squeeze the heck out of it, and then stir the heck out of it..


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yay!! What target SG are people shooting for after fruit is put in but before fermentation?


----------



## jamesngalveston

a lot of people here try to get there sugar level with fruit up to 1.095.
which will give you about 12% abv.
I shoot for 1.110 for a higher abv.


----------



## Elmer

I bumped a batch up to 14%.
I dont like to waste my time when sitting by the pool drinking!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Elmer I agree with you 100%.At 14%, dragon blood is still pretty smooth.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks guys! I'll increase it today then before pitching my yeast. Good info!


----------



## ou8amaus

HELP! I just finished up a 23 liter batch of tropical DB variant... 4lbs of pineapple, 4lbs of mango, 4 liters of pineapple juice, 2 cups of lime juice, and sugar up to 1.095... Last night I filtered and backsweetened with 4 cups of sugar aaaannnndddd.... nothing. Like kissing your sister. Smells great, but flavor is very weak. In retrospect I should have used a flavored concentrate to sweeten... Any ideas on how can I "save" this batch? I am worried anything I add at this point will end up oversweetening the batch...


----------



## wineforfun

jamesngalveston said:


> a lot of people here try to get there sugar level with fruit up to 1.095.
> which will give you about 12% abv.
> I shoot for 1.110 for a higher abv.



The sheet that came with my hydrometer puts 1.095 at 12.7. When I run it dry to .995, I then add an addtional .7. That makes 13.4.
How are you getting only 12 from 1.095?


----------



## jamesngalveston

if you get it to .995 it should be 13% are better depending on the temp of the must.
http://www.davesdreaded.com/homebrew-calculator/


----------



## jamesngalveston

ou8amaus.. pineapple and mango are both light in flavor at the amounts you started with. i would buy a few fresh pineapples, peel and core, 
chop up and add with a can of pineapple juice and put on stove on med and cook it down to a syrup, strain and add to the wine.
since you added sugar all ready, you wouldnt want to add more.
except what is natural in the pineapple.
when i make my pineapple blood, i use 14 40oz cans of juice (3 gl batch)
when i make my mango blood i use 40 lbs of mangos for a 3 gallon
and 60 lbs for a 5 gallon


----------



## ou8amaus

jamesngalveston said:


> ou8amaus.. pineapple and mango are both light in flavor at the amounts you started with. i would buy a few fresh pineapples, peel and core,
> chop up and add with a can of pineapple juice and put on stove on med and cook it down to a syrup, strain and add to the wine.
> since you added sugar all ready, you wouldnt want to add more.
> except what is natural in the pineapple.
> when i make my pineapple blood, i use 14 40oz cans of juice (3 gl batch)
> when i make my mango blood i use 40 lbs of mangos for a 3 gallon
> and 60 lbs for a 5 gallon



Wow, so I really undershot the required fruit/juice on these... With traditional DB using only 6lbs of fruit I assume the qty would more or less carry over for other fruits. Lesson learned! Thanks for the f-pack idea, I am on it!


----------



## jamesngalveston

i think you were on the right track.... berries have more flavor, expecially blackberries....
i am no expert, but it looks like the darker the fruit the more the flavor the lighter the fruit the least amount of flavor , lb for lb.


----------



## dangerdave

James is right, Micky. The tropical typically needs a little help. Extracts and f-packs help a lot to boost flavor. I've got one (tropical) clearing myself that will need some extra "love" to come around. Keep at it, I'm sure you'll be pleased in the end!


----------



## hawk022499

I have been watching this thread for a while. I am new to winemaking and this DB is my 2nd batch ever (my first being a Vino Italiano Tuscan Rosso Magnifico.) The DB is currently on day 3 of clearing. I sure hope it taste as good as everyone says!!!! Looks and smells awesome. Mine seems a bit darker than what I see in other pics. I used the same recipe but I only used 64oz of lemon juice.


Sorry about the side-ways pic. Not sure why it did that.


----------



## hawk022499

Behind the DB is the Tropical variation with 64oz pineapple juice and 16oz lime juice which just started clearing yesterday. You can barely see the 5 gal of the VI Rosso also.

I have a 6 gal batch of SP which started fermenting yesterday in another room.

I'm going to need some bottles.

Thanks to everyone contributing to this forum. It really helps us new guys start out on the right foot!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hawk regarding the color did you use the triple berry blend or the 4 berry blend? I saw the recipe said 1- 48oz bottle of lemon juice. Did you taste that while racking to the carboys? I used 40oz of lemon juice in mine and had a quick taste last night, it's not fully fermented out yet, I'll be leaving it in the primary over the weekend and perhaps racking Sunday night or Monday morning. I did find it slightly on the acidic side but back sweetening will probably help mine. It's very fruity though! I myself used the 4 berry blend from Walmart and it is currently a bright ruby red.


----------



## hawk022499

I used the triple berry mix. I started the DB reading from the 1st post which had the original recipe of (2) 48oz bottles. I didn't see there had been 2 revisions until after I started the ferment, lol. It looked quite dark until I compared it with the Rosso. I think after it clears and with some good sunlight it should have more of that ruby red color I see in others.

No, I didn't taste it when I racked it to the carboy. I knew it would be tart w/o the back sweetening and I didn't want to ruin the picture I had in my head of the final product and the sweet smell of it fermenting...

I started with 1.090 SG and racked it at 0.993.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya, I was lucky to have seen the revised recipe before the original one! But back sweetening should help, there must be other ways to tone down the acidity in the way of additives if it's too much for you and it will mellow with time. I agree that once it clears you should have a nice color. I'm doing and elderberry blush as well, more of a second run and I found it peculiar that it seemed to darken like yours to a purplish color after racking to the carboy. It definitely not oxidized though. I also think that it will revert somewhat to a ruby red once it clears some... Was your DB lighter prior to racking?


----------



## hawk022499

Here is what it looked like in the primary...


----------



## ckvchestnut

It does look lighter a tad unless it's my imagination?? Also I'm sure each bag of fruit must vary in ratios of dark fruit to red fruit. It also occurred to me that the 4 berry fruit blend has strawberries too so an additional red fruit over the triple berry blend.


----------



## Rodnboro

I used 2 of the 32 oz bottles from Walmart instead of the 48 oz. It is good but not much lemon zing. I have acid reflux so it is good this way for me. It's a great recipe. Ill be making more.


----------



## jamesngalveston

u are good to go. you could cut it back to 1 bottle of lemon if u want.
most of the lemon is invisible after going dry and racking...


----------



## LoneStarLori

hawk022499 said:


> Behind the DB is the Tropical variation with 64oz pineapple juice and 16oz lime juice which just started clearing yesterday. You can barely see the 5 gal of the VI Rosso also.
> 
> I have a 6 gal batch of SP which started fermenting yesterday in another room.
> 
> *I'm going to need some bottles.*
> 
> Thanks to everyone contributing to this forum. It really helps us new guys start out on the right foot!



You might try looking on Craigslist for your bottles. I picked up 5 cases of used bottles last week for $2.50 a case. Some of them were really nice ones too.


----------



## dangerdave

Looking great everyone! Don't worry about the extra lemon juice, Hawk. If it's not right for you, reduced it in your next batch. But I think you'll like it fine.

As to the color being darker: It has been my experience that the citric acid in the lemon juice has a profound extraction effect on the skins and pulp of the fruit used. This is the main reason, I think, that we can make a nice fruity batch of wine from a mere six pounds of fruit. After dozens of batches and numerous attempts to improve the recipe, I am yet---for my taste---to improve any on the original recipe except for cutting the lemon juice by half.

Recently, I have tried a batch without the brew belt, allowing the must to ferment at room temperature (in my basement, that is about 68F). The DB, which was racked from primary to carboy yesterday, is much lighter in hue that any I have ever made. Usually, my DB ferments at temps approaching 90F at the peak of fermentation under brew belt. This higher temp may also contribute to positive extraction from the skins. In addition, I have always taken my frozen fruit and microwaved it to thaw before placing it in the bag and dumping the extra juice and bag into the fermenter. This time, I dumped the frozen fruit into it's mesh bag and placed it in the must to thaw on it's own overnight, before pitching the yeast. Now I am reading about how beneficial microwaving your must can be in wine making. After this experience, I am going back to microwaving my fruit and jacking up the fermentation temp on my DB. The EC-1118 can tolerate the higher temp, and both factors seem to positively effect the outcome of the wine.

Always experimenting. Always learning. Sometimes, I learn new things. Other times, I affirm what I already knew.


----------



## ckvchestnut

That was great info thanks Dave. I too just put my frozen fruit into my straining bag (pantyhose) and left over night. I have a bright ruby red color despite my having added a jug of dark antioxia juice to get my starting SG up. I can't wait to bottle it and post it up here! Also I would like to know if you all get a strong fresh fruity taste and aroma when racking to the carboy? I was under the impression when all the sugar was fermented out that the fruitiness sort of disappeared until after aging awhile. This is not the case with me as I'm getting fruitiness in a strong way. I added 1 banana and 1lb of raisins. Would that have really made a difference? Or do you think it could have been the added antioxia juice? I added everything up front and added nothing between SG 1.030 and 1.020...


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, mine is always super fruity, even when it's dry.

Sounds like you're right on track, ckvchestnut! I like how you varied the recipe and made it your own. Nobody seems to make the exact same DB. Perfect! I've tried the banana and raisin version. It comes out very good! But each time I try a variation, my wife sends me back to my original recipe. LOL!

It's not about me and my recipe, it's about you and your wine.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha! Thanks Dave I will tell you this - I normally like to get out there and be creative with recipes. This was NOT my original intention whatsoever for my first batch of DB because I read over and over how the original is better than all the variations... But as luck would have it, I miscalculated how many 2kg bags of sugar to buy for the 20 cups... How many is it anyway?? So my SG came out too low and all I had in the house was 1 banana, some raisins and a jug of juice! So I'll have to get what I get! I will make it my mission to stick to the original reduced lemon juice recipe next time which I'm sure won't be far off in the future! Thanks for your responses!


----------



## dangerdave

Well, in these here United States, we just _gotta_ be different from the rest of the world---for some strange reason. Sugar at my grocer comes in pounds. A cup of sugar weights in at about half a pound (7.5 ounces, actually). So, I can get about 20 cups of sugar from a 10 pound bag (more or less). For you, a cup of granuated white sugar weights in at 220 grams. Twenty cups times 220g = 4400g. That's 4 and half kilos (roughly).


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thank you!! I think I bought 2 - 2kg bags and duh had an extra gallon or gallon and a half extra liquid! I'm guessing the first batch is always a leaning curve right down to my little glitch of filing my carboy too much for the allowance of the sparkalloid moisture! Oh well! Next batch will go smoother!!


----------



## frosti

now i have to admit....made this the first time about 6 months ago...just tried a bottle thats aged awhile....sooo much better

sorta smooth and a bit of a buttery flavor.....really digging this recipe dangerdave! already have another one going i started 2 months ago


----------



## MilesDavis

I took the plunge at started a batch too, with a couple of slight variations.
1) I neglected to check my sugar supply, so to get the S.G. to 1.082, I ended up using a mix of white sugar, dextrose, brown sugar, and about a pound of honey.
2) Instead of EC-1118, I used the slurry from my batch of blackberry wine. Pitched it last night, and it's already fizzing away. All I did to wake it up from a nap in the fridge is add a little warm water and some brown sugar.


----------



## ckvchestnut

frosti said:


> now i have to admit....made this the first time about 6 months ago...just tried a bottle thats aged awhile....sooo much better sorta smooth and a bit of a buttery flavor.....really digging this recipe dangerdave! already have another one going i started 2 months ago



Oh goodness!! I will have to save some bottles for SURE! Any tingle at all? Did unfollow to the "t"? How much lemon?


----------



## ckvchestnut

MilesDavis said:


> I took the plunge at started a batch too, with a couple of slight variations. 1) I neglected to check my sugar supply, so to get the S.G. to 1.082, I ended up using a mix of white sugar, dextrose, brown sugar, and about a pound of honey. 2) Instead of EC-1118, I used the slurry from my batch of blackberry wine. Pitched it last night, and it's already fizzing away. All I did to wake it up from a nap in the fridge is add a little warm water and some brown sugar.


 What yeast was originally used?


----------



## MilesDavis

ckvchestnut said:


> What yeast was originally used?



Montrachet.


----------



## frosti

ckvchestnut said:


> Oh goodness!! I will have to save some bottles for SURE! Any tingle at all? Did unfollow to the "t"? How much lemon?



i did a peach, raspberry, strawberry, blackberry mix and half the lemon juice up front. ec 1118 yeast

seems 6 months 4 of that in the bottle really shines.


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## ckvchestnut

It seems the recipe variations are endless! I'm going to try that tropical one too...


----------



## jpsmithny

Thanks Dave for a wonderful recipe. 

I tried mine about two weeks ago and found it tasted a bit thin for my 

tastes. This was before back sweetening though so I added two cups

sugar and then added two cups of apple juice. The body is just right 

for me now. 

This recipe is practically bulletproof and so versatile.


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## kryptonitewine

Just tasted my first of my blueberry. It's been aging two months. It's YUMMY!!!!


----------



## dangerdave

Starting some more blueberry tomorrow myself! One of our favorates.

As a reminder, now is the time to crank out some Blood for next years summer drinking. I'm putting in some DB's, blueberry, a tropical, a concord grape, and a straight lemon with zest.

If you make it now, it will be awesome by summer!

JP, and the rest of you: You are very much welcome! Enjoy, my friends!


----------



## kryptonitewine

How's the Concord grape? That's a new one to me.


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> Starting some more blueberry tomorrow myself! One of our favorates. As a reminder, now is the time to crank out some Blood for next years summer drinking. I'm putting in some DB's, blueberry, a tropical, a concord grape, and a straight lemon with zest. If you make it now, it will be awesome by summer! JP, and the rest of you: You are very much welcome! Enjoy, my friends!



Are you referring to a concord variation on DB? Or concord wine! I have concords waiting in freezer bags for me to do something with!


----------



## jamesngalveston

i agree dave, make and bottle now for next summer....
kryptonitewine, i made a batch of concord port, and it was really good.
i mad a batch of dragon blood from concentrated concord whelches grape juice and it was actually better....but my port, needs aging..while the db was drinkable right away.


----------



## dangerdave

This batch is clearing now, and was made in classic DB style, but instead of triple berry, I used about 25 lbs of fresh concord grapes (from a local homestead) stuffed into two bags for squeezing. If the concord flavor isn't strong enough, I'll back sweeten with some Welch's concord concentrate. That should do it!

It's my first try for this one, so we'll see how it comes out.


----------



## jamesngalveston

no matter what I make with the db type recipe, i get the same ohhhs and ahhs over the color.....I think that not adding campden, are kmeta in the start, may have something to do with that..dont know..just thinking out loud.


----------



## cintipam

Hi all

I can't wait to give this recipe a shot. I'm fairly new, but have a made a couple winners so am looking forward to lots of different varieties in our future. I love the color and clarity this recipe produces. I can imagine it goes quickly at any party. Because of this I wanted to share something I just found at Big Lots (no affiliation, no gain for me). I just picked up 3 slim style BBP free clear beverage decanters for 5 bucks each. Looks like a cross between a better bottle and those boxed wines that have a rotating tap. I filled them with water and tested for leaks, all good. I will say that it is important to only rotate the spigot when setting upright because every time I tried to rotate it when on it's side it loosened the cap and water leaked out. Anyway, I can just picture several side by side containers in various colors at a party, and thought you all might be interested also. I think 5 bucks is cheap, and what a picture they will make! 

Pam in cinti


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## Tess

Im not sure Id trust them to age it and DB is better in the bottle for a while. From what I understand boxed wine can spoil much faster than bottled wine. But for serving at a party I dont see why not. I just wouldnt have it in them for long.


----------



## Tess

Maybe if you had room to keep them in the fridge till party day


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## Tess

Some people use these and love them but these are made for wine with disposable wine bags with new taps. Iv never used them myself but others here have. 
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=647#.Ul3Nj1BQGSo


----------



## cintipam

Tess, I agree with you all the way not for aging. But for a party, this design holds 1.25 gallons in a space that's about 4" wide. Not to mention the safety factor of plastic vs glass towards the end of a good party. Our fridge has a couple places under meat or veggie drawer that is really really narrow, usually wasted space, and these fit nicely there. I do like to keep a gallon of my fave in the fridge for the occasional glass.

BTW loved your barrell table!

Pam in cinti


----------



## Tess

cintipam said:


> Tess, I agree with you all the way not for aging. But for a party, this design holds 1.25 gallons in a space that's about 4" wide. Not to mention the safety factor of plastic vs glass towards the end of a good party. Our fridge has a couple places under meat or veggie drawer that is really really narrow, usually wasted space, and these fit nicely there. I do like to keep a gallon of my fave in the fridge for the occasional glass.
> 
> BTW loved your barrell table!
> 
> Pam in cinti



Thanks Pam, Good deal then. Let us know how the party turns out. I have a small barrel that has a spigot that hold about 2 gallons. Its needs to be swelled though but I plan on serving some wine in it at my Christmas party. Dont know what its made out of. If I knew it were oak Id age wine in it but I dont think it is lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

post a pic of it tess...maybe we can id the wood.


----------



## Tess




----------



## Tess

There is something stamped on the back but I can read it lol


----------



## Tess

Says Mel something lol


----------



## Tess

Mel Knox maybe?


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## Tess

Holds more like three gallons. brass fittings


----------



## wineforfun

dangerdave said:


> This batch is clearing now, and was made in classic DB style, but instead of triple berry, I used about 25 lbs of fresh concord grapes (from a local homestead) stuffed into two bags for squeezing. If the concord flavor isn't strong enough, I'll back sweeten with some Welch's concord concentrate. That should do it!
> 
> It's my first try for this one, so we'll see how it comes out.



This should be really good. I was just at a very small winery in Missouri over the weekend and the guy had taken concord grape wine and mixed some blackberry wine with it, it was really good. Had a unique flavor.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I made a port using concord concentrate and 5 lbs of blackberries, and is very good.
sometimes i can taste the grape,sometimes the blackberries...unique but good.


----------



## cimbaliw

I'm pretty sure that's an oak barrel Tess. Don't know where you can take it from here as they apparently have a finite life span.

BC


----------



## LoneStarLori

I am finally going to start a batch of triple Berry today. I don't have any yeast energizer and no hope of getting any unless I order online. I'm thinking it will work without it, maybe just slower. I do have yeast nutrient. Any vets think this would be a mistake to leave out the energizer?


----------



## Elmer

LoneStarLori said:


> I am finally going to start a batch of triple Berry today. I don't have any yeast energizer and no hope of getting any unless I order online. I'm thinking it will work without it, maybe just slower. I do have yeast nutrient. Any vets think this would be a mistake to leave out the energizer?



I have never made any batch without Energizer/nutrient.
It is my understanding that the amount of lemon makes the fermentation a tough one.

I would order online. What is the worst that can happen you will only be a few weeks before you can drink the DB.
DB is usually ready quickly and is an early drinker, so I have never found that there is a rush to cut corners


----------



## dangerdave

Elmer makes a good point. I haven't tried a batch of DB without the additives, so I can give no good advice there. I'll have to try one and see. Experimentation is encouraged!

Believe it or not, I've finally found a wife-approved improvement on the original DB recipe. Inspired by Seth's cold fermentation experiment, I decided to make my next batch (started about the same time) without a brew belt, at room temp. For my basement, that's about 70F. It came out _wonderful_, and only took a few extra days to ferment. It is smoother, fruitier, and even more drinkable right from the start. My wife likes it better than the original: a goal I have struggled two years to reach! She always told me to go back the the start. Now, since this batch is done, she wants me to make them all this way from now on. The one and only difference was leaving the brew belt off. I know some of you may have been making it like this all along. With the brew belt, they were fermenting at around 80F-85F.

I'm going to add this note to the next revision of _Wine Made Easy_.


----------



## jamesngalveston

1/2 cup grape nuts..1 cup water..cook in nuker for 2 minutes, let cool...
works like a charm.
are cut up two whole bananas...riper the better...
add the above in a muslin bag are etc.


----------



## wineforfun

dangerdave said:


> at room temp. For my basement, that's about 70F



You are correct sir, that is how all mine is made. Anywhere from 68-72.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Well, I guess I'll be the first to test it w/o energizer. My daughter is here visiting for only a few days and I wanted it to make it "our" project for next summers beach time. So... I started it already. I'll keep y'all posted on the fermentation progress. (or lack of). We decided we wanted a tangier wine so I used 1 1/2 bottle of lemon juice. Which won't help my cause, I'm sure.




jamesngalveston said:


> 1/2 cup grape nuts..1 cup water..cook in nuker for 2 minutes, let cool...
> works like a charm.
> are cut up two whole bananas...riper the better...
> add the above in a muslin bag are etc.



James, What is the Grape nuts for? Is that a replacement for the energizer?


----------



## jamesngalveston

yes lori, works great..i ran out making my fig..did a little research..and found it as a replacement.


----------



## LoneStarLori

I just did a little research also. One ingredient of it is B complex, which I have. Mostly it is minerals. _"Ingredients: Diammonium phosphate (CAS 7783-28-0), yeast hulls, magnisum sulphate (CAS 7487-88-9), vitamin B complex, tricalcium phosphate (CAS 1306-06-5)"_
I'll use one banana and crush 3 b12 complex tablets. I also used all spring water which has minerals as opposed to tap. That should give it a mineral boost too.


----------



## dangerdave

Sounds like a witch's brew! Do keep us posted!


----------



## LoneStarLori

dangerdave said:


> Sounds like a witch's brew! Do keep us posted!



Tis the season Dave. 

Hope you can't taste the banana. Yuk.


----------



## wineforfun

You won't taste the banana. I made Dave's Especiale, which uses bananas in the primary, and couldn't taste them in the end product.


----------



## Kraffty

Lori, don't B complex tablets have a nasty smell to them? I'd be worried about adding an off flavor to the wine.
Mike


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree with Kraffty B complex stinks.....Lori...just buy a small box of grape nuts...
I fed my 6 gallon of fig with it, and it worked like a charm.
I then made some blackberry port and used it again, and it worked
I would be leary of the b complex.


----------



## jamesngalveston

By the way...we are getting a full blown bull redfish now.
caught a 36 lb this am.


----------



## Kraffty

Pictures James....Which DB goes with redfish?
Mike


----------



## jamesngalveston

the tropical blend db goes with red fish.
I was going to post pics..I got new phone, when I went to hook to usb on computer it said i have to add that as an xtra service for tmobile..
PPPPPPPPPPP me off...
tethering is not free no more..assssssslllllllll


----------



## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> the tropical blend db goes with red fish.
> *I was going to post pics..*I got new phone, when I went to hook to usb on computer it said i have to add that as an xtra service for tmobile..
> PPPPPPPPPPP me off...
> tethering is not free no more..assssssslllllllll



I call BULL on the bull then. 
Really, I am impressed. Here the official bull Red run is the 2nd week of Sept. We are going out Sunday morning. I'm hoping to get something other than trout. 

I used the B12 before I saw the comments. But while crushing it, it had no smell whatsoever so I'll hope for the best.



Oh, I thought of something else. the kit came with EC-118 but i used Montrachet instead. I wonder if that couldn't have played a part.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hey everyone! I also fermented my DB at the 70 to 72F range and it came out lovely so far very fruity! It's not in the bottle yet though. I have a silly question though I did my first racking almost a week ago and it was super clear before and after. I did the degassing and the potassium sorbate as per the instructions. I don't see a drop of any sediment on the bottom of the carboy still and it's crystal clear, am I ready to bottle it then? Or should I wait longer?


----------



## Tripplett

Lori I ordered my Energizer from Amazon as my local store didn't have this either. I'm intrigued by the Grape Nuts though. And Dave, I've always made mine with no brew belt. The way I see it I want all my wines fermenting as slow as possible as to pull as much flavor as I can out.


----------



## kryptonitewine

I use a brew belt to get it started and then once it's rolling I shut it off. Usually 24 hours is plenty.


----------



## iVivid

Just made a 3 gal, man it is fizzing! Looks and smells gorgeous... just a couple of days in and it's at 1.025!


----------



## dangerdave

Yea, the comments about a cooler ferment were always out there, but the goal was always to make it quickly. Now that I am looking to refine (used loosely) the recipe a bit, I've been trying different techniques. A room temp ferment is definately a plus!

I'm getting me some Super Klear to speed up the clearing phase, and make up for the slightly longer ferment.


----------



## wineforfun

LoneStarLori said:


> Oh, I thought of something else. the kit came with EC-118 but i used Montrachet instead. I wonder if that couldn't have played a part.



Watch out for that Montrachet. If you don't keep it fed well, you will have sulphur issues. Found out first hand.


----------



## MilesDavis

wineforfun said:


> Watch out for that Montrachet. If you don't keep it fed well, you will have sulphur issues. Found out first hand.



It's also been my experience (limited as it may be) that fermenting at cooler temps alleviates the sulfur smells from Montrachet, even without nutrient.


----------



## Tess

How's it going Laurie??


----------



## LoneStarLori

Tess said:


> How's it going Laurie??




Whoops! I started updating this on the 15 day DB thread.
It is rockin and rollin. 72 hours and it has gone from 1.075 to 1.004. Crazy!


Here's what I posted;
I'm not sure if it was the banana, the vitamin B complex or the spring water. Maybe all three. Whichever, the must seems very happy without the yeast energizer. SG after 48 hrs, 1.047, temp 67.5º.
There is no taste of either the vitamin B or the banana. 
The B-complex is from Swanson Vitamins online and has no taste or smell even if you let it dissolve in your mouth. Thats why I didn't hesitate to use it. They are a great source for vitamins, natural juice concentrates and organic spices. (no, I am not affiliated )


----------



## ckvchestnut

LoneStarLori said:


> Whoops! I started updating this on the 15 day DB thread. It is rockin and rollin. 72 hours and it has gone from 1.075 to 1.004. Crazy! Here's what I posted; I'm not sure if it was the banana, the vitamin B complex or the spring water. Maybe all three. Whichever, the must seems very happy without the yeast energizer. SG after 48 hrs, 1.047, temp 67.5º. There is no taste of either the vitamin B or the banana. The B-complex is from Swanson Vitamins online and has no taste or smell even if you let it dissolve in your mouth. Thats why I didn't hesitate to use it. They are a great source for vitamins, natural juice concentrates and organic spices. (no, I am not affiliated )


 Hey Lori interesting that you are fermenting so quickly at 67.5F that's good to know! I started mine at 70F and it stayed in the 70-72F range. You used EC-1118? I also used banana and raisins but no b-complex but did use then energizer because I read about the banana being a good sub afterwards. Don't have b-complex lying around anyway. I'm going to try a lower temp ferment next time but not sure how it would improve mine too much - it's awesome already!


----------



## LoneStarLori

ckvchestnut said:


> Hey Lori interesting that you are fermenting so quickly at 67.5F that's good to know! I started mine at 70F and it stayed in the 70-72F range.



Oh no! I did not even notice I had a dyslexic attack. That is supposed to read 76.5º. I'll correct that photo. 
I WISH my house stayed in the 60's. It's usually about 75-78 and thats with AC running constantly.

Yes, I used EC-118.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Oh that makes total sense then! My SG dropped exactly 10 points per day part from a day or 2 where it dropped a bit more. Again my temp was a bit lower


----------



## LoneStarLori

Racked the DB today and added superkleer. It always amazes me how fast that stuff clears wine. I came up pretty short of 6 gallons and I was out of 5 gal carboys, so I topped it off with some of my Black Currant wine. It should be a really pretty color when all is said and done.


----------



## Tess

LoneStarLori said:


> Racked the DB today and added superkleer. It always amazes me how fast that stuff clears wine. I came up pretty short of 6 gallons and I was out of 5 gal carboys, so I topped it off with some of my Black Currant wine. It should be a really pretty color when all is said and done.



I always topped off with white so it doesn't hinder that beautiful color


----------



## dangerdave

So many wines blend nicely with the DB, so don't sweat what your adding. Now that I have been a making it for so long, I always have some DB on hand for topping.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Tess said:


> I always topped off with white so it doesn't hinder that beautiful color


It may make it just a hair darker with the Black Currant. I figured I'd stay true to the berry wine. Can't have grapes contaminating the berries.


----------



## ou8amaus

Initially I had made a batch of Quad berry, as that was all I could find. I and many others loved it. Specifically my wife. I turned around and it was all gone. So thinking I learned my lesson this time I started 2 batches. Found the triple berry at Costco and also am trying another berry mix they sell. I just finished them up and I am scared. OK, worried. This original triple berry recipe came out MUCH darker, with more berry flavor than the quad berry had. I have already been given "The Look" after SWMBO tasted the tri-berry. I am going to need more carboys. Damn, thanks Dave


----------



## dangerdave

I think it's the blueberries. They lend a deep ruby red color to the DB. My straight blueberry version comes out about the same color.

Oh, and you are very welcome, Micky. Tell your SWMBO to enjoy the wine! You'll be making more. As a note, it took me over a year of making DB to overcome consumption. Lots of women in our two extended families. They love it! Well, so does everyone else...


----------



## Tess

The Black and Blue (Blackberry, Blueberry) version is very Dark as you would imagine. Still pretty. Deep and Rich would describe the color and the taste


----------



## Tripplett

Ou8amaus I've always used the quad berry and lately have added extras. My current is quad berry with 1lb raisins and 32 oz of organic "just tart cherry" by R.W. Knudsen (Food Lion organic section). Sometimes I'll throw chopped up bananas in there. After fermenting I've been adding oak. You have me curious about the triple berry - now I'll have to compare them.

As for top off if I have any I use a previous DB or white zin.


----------



## Tess

I added chopped raisins to the Black and Blue


----------



## wineforfun

Just reporting back on a variation I tried, Choco-Lime DB. 
Triple berry, lime juice, 71-B yeast. After fermenting, clearing, backsweetening, I added 85% Lindt dark chocolate to a gallon.
At first, when bottling, heavy lime with some berry flavor, but not much on the chocolate.
After 1 month in the bottle, the lime has mellowed quite a bit, berry flavor more pronounced and it has a nice chocolate finish. 
Curious to see how another month or two treats it.


----------



## RotGut76

I am currently on my 3rd batch of DBSP. I have aged the first batch for going on 3 months. Every month since I made it I "taste test" one bottle. 

The latest bottle I opened last night. The color is outstanding. It smells great. However, I'm getting a little off flavoring after taste. It is hard to describe. Its like a bitterness or tartness. It seems like something is missing from the flavor.

I followed the recipe exactly except when I back sweetened I used 3 additional pounds of the berry mix juiced and sweetened with sugar.

I know describing a flavor over text is not easy but did anyone else have a similar result?

Did I not back sweeten enough (for my tastes)?

Did I do something else wrong that I'm not seeing?

Or will the off flavor disappear with more aging?


----------



## jamesngalveston

the bitterness are tartness is from the unfermented fruit.
3 lbs of additional fruit is enough to totally alter the taste.
If you tasted the must before fermentation are sugar addition, you would have gotten the similar taste.
you added a lot of fruit.
if you would have added the sugar to the fruit and cooked it down to a simple syrup you may not have gotten that tartness you are describing.
you could start a 3 gallon batch, and when it goes dry, add the bottled wine to the 3 to make a 5 are 6, let it clear, sorbate, it backsweeten and bottle...
just saying, not advising. saving the wine bottled.....


----------



## RotGut76

jamesngalveston said:


> the bitterness are tartness is from the unfermented fruit.
> 3 lbs of additional fruit is enough to totally alter the taste.



Wow. Thanks. I didn't think that the unfermented fruit would have such a negative impact.

The batch I have going now will be done as per the recipe.


----------



## bluedog

I boarded the DB train last weekend. Today marks 7 days since I pitched the EC-1118. SG is presently at 0.997 (temp corrected). I'm fermenting in a fermentation chamber so I can maintain pretty tight temperatures and went with 72F. Seems like that is on the cooler side? I expect it can drop a few more points, so I will give it a chance before heating up to help with degassing.

Pretty much followed the original recipe. I used the triple berry blend available at Costco, but the one variation was an organic lemon juice also picked up at Costco (Italian Volcano?). Looking forward to this one.


----------



## dangerdave

Welcome to the club, _bluedog_! We love it here!

I've recently lowered my ferment temp from a warm 80F to 72F. The DB comes out much smoother from the get-go. You'll love it.

_RotGut76_: When I used the extra fruit in the DB, I put the fruit and it's juices into the clear wine (in a carboy) and let it sit for a month like that. I got no bitter taste in mine. It did come out fruitier, but---naturally---I lost some wine in the racking. I didn't think the improvement was enough to make it worth the fuss. I've since reverted back to the original---at a slightly lower temp.


----------



## RotGut76

Thanks Dangerdave. My current batch I'm doing by the book.

I have a question on the Tropical Pee. After racking a few times I came up a little short in my 6 gallon carboy.

I topped it up with just a little pineapple juice because I didn't want too much head space. Its a little cloudy now. Will it clear out again of do I need to add something to it?


----------



## dangerdave

It should clear back up. How long has it been since you added the juice?


----------



## RotGut76

dangerdave said:


> It should clear back up. How long has it been since you added the juice?



Last night


----------



## dangerdave

Give it at least a week after adding anything. If it hasn't at least started to clear, you can hit it with another dose of Sparkolloid or some Super Klear (whatever is on hand). Won't hurt it a bit.


----------



## Tess

Im not musch of a sparkling wine fan because honestly Iv never had a good one. Im thinking of Doing James Peach blush version and carbonating it for NYE


----------



## jamesngalveston

I dont care for any sparkling wine....I like to take big gulps...and if u do that with sparkling wine, you blow up like a puffer fish....No thanks.
I can not get enough of this peach blush started 12 gallons today...


----------



## bluedog

Racked and stabilized the DB tonight. Wow, what a fruit bomb! My office/wine room smelled great. Hopefully I managed to degas it thoroughly enough (3 passes with the AllInOne). I had never used sparkalloid before. Sort of strange to boil what basically looks like fine dirt and toss it into that lovely wine.


----------



## jamesngalveston

If you ever use super-kleer you will buy it by the case..


----------



## Elmer

jamesngalveston said:


> If you ever use super-kleer you will buy it by the case..



Complete Noob question about Superkleer,
does it do anything to the flavor?
Isnt it made out of something fish oily?

I have always used sparkalloid.
And I want to try Superkleer
But I fear change!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Elmer yes it is made from crustaceans, crab shell,shrimp, etc.
It is dryed , powdered, liquified,etc..
It does not change the taste at all, easy to use, and works very very fast.
You will like it....and it compacts the lees, very very fine and tight....


----------



## Tess

As soon as I run out of Sparkloid Im getting some


----------



## Tess

Why isnt this thread a sticky? Skeeter pee has it own forum on here. Apfelwein is top dog sticky on this recipe forum. Why not support our own Dave who came up with this recipe. Its constantly talked about and made on here. 
Specially good for newbies to try. This should be a sticky by now


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree, come on admin,are mods...how bout a sticky for dave....it would certainly help all those that want to try, looking for it,reading about .


----------



## Pantaleo

jamesngalveston said:


> If you ever use super-kleer you will buy it by the case..



James,
Where do you buy it at by the case? I just used up the last of my Sparkolloid and just ordered some Super-Kleer to try out.


----------



## wineforfun

I am just throwing out an educated guess but DB is a derivative of Skeeter Pee so I am assuming that is why it is listed under the Skeeter Pee section.

Rememeber to always throw some kudos Lon's way as he was the guiding force behind Dave's creation.


----------



## Elmer

I always give credit where credit is due.
That is why I refer to it as:

Dave's Dragon Blood: Triple Berry variant of Lon's Skeeter Pee !

or for Short- Dragon Pee!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have never made skeeter pee, nor to i intend too...i even guit adding the lemon juice...i do however add two whole squeezed lemons...
other then lemon juice i dont see the similarites...other then the chemicals which we use in all wines, almost.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Pantelo, i buy 12 pkg at a time.


----------



## Tripplett

Superkleer seems expensive compared to sparkolloid. $7.50 on Amazon for one application. My last pack of sparkolloid was $1.90 for 3/4 oz. Actually my local store has super kleer for $2.25 but still that is one application of 5 to 6 gallons. 3/4 oz of sparkolloid at 4.5 tsp will do 9 gallons at 1/2 tsp per gallon. The good hing is they do sell the two super kleer ingredients separately. Maybe that is the way to go. kieselsol and chitosan.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i pay 1.85 for each packet, which contains both, kieselsol and chitosan.
which as far as i am concern is no big deal...
not sure what you are getting on amazon for 7.50.


----------



## LoneStarLori

That's not the price you would normally pay if bought in a brew shop. At most it's $2.50. They are factoring in Prime shipping charges.
If you don't have a local shop that carries it, try a few other online sellers. Most ship pretty quick and usually you will get in it 3-4 days. And for the shipping that Amazon is really charging, you can get 3-4 packs.


----------



## Tripplett

Chitosan can be bought from Amazon for $13.99 +6.46 shipping for a liter. That is just over 33 doses at 1 oz per 5-6 gallons. $.62 cents per dose. Kieselsol is also sold there for $18.99 +$6.46 shipping for a liter. At 1/4 oz per 5-6 doses that is about 133 doses at 0.19 cents per dose. Total $.81 cents per dose. Placing my order. Filled by Midwest through Amazon. Hope it's ok to post all this.


----------



## LoneStarLori

That should do you for a while. 
If you decide to give up wine making, you can use it to clear your neighbors pool.


----------



## Elmer

Tripplett said:


> Superkleer seems expensive compared to sparkolloid. $7.50 on Amazon for one application. My last pack of sparkolloid was $1.90 for 3/4 oz. Actually my local store has super kleer for $2.25 but still that is one application of 5 to 6 gallons. 3/4 oz of sparkolloid at 4.5 tsp will do 9 gallons at 1/2 tsp per gallon. The good hing is they do sell the two super kleer ingredients separately. Maybe that is the way to go. kieselsol and chitosan.



I have only ever used sparkalloid. 
I tend to lose anywhere from a 1/2 to a full gallon when rack off of sparkalloid.
The issue I have is that the goop is fluffy and to avoid having the pump grab the fluffy goop when racking, I have to put the racking cane a good few inches away, leaving me a loss of potentially up to a gallon.

If superkleer is that good. and pack everything tight and can minimize my losses, I would gove it a shot even at $7 an application.

Then again I only use it in when I make "Dave's Dragon Blood: Triple Berry variant of Lon's Skeeter Pee!"


----------



## jamesngalveston

tripple i was going to do the same today, i am tired of getting 12 pkg each time.

elmer....you dont like super-kleer send me a self addressed envelope and i will send you your money back from where ever you got it.
promise.


----------



## Tess

sparkalloid has worked for me but I havnt made as much as James has. I will change when I run out!


----------



## Tess

Your already determent your not gonna try it?? WHY??? James I love the pee in the summer so do all my friends. You should at least try it!! Who dose not like lemonade with dinner in the summer and who dosnt like it with a kick!! Your being stubborn. Make it before you get this idea of it in your head!!


----------



## iVivid

OK; just bottled my first one; OMG it's awesome, just loving it!


----------



## jamesngalveston

tess...I can not stand lemonade....nor lemon pie, nor lemon anything.
i do not eat, grapefruit, and will not drink orange juice of any kind..just dont like citrus.


----------



## jamesngalveston

liv that looks good, and love the label, not quite forbidden fruit...just dares you to try it..lol good job.


----------



## iVivid

jamesngalveston said:


> liv that looks good, and love the label, not quite forbidden fruit...just dares you to try it..lol good job.



Not Quite Forbidden Fruit is the name of my little 'winery'. Always seemed fitting to me... and I love the connotation of 'a little bit naughty'


----------



## LoneStarLori

Those are really nice labels Viv. Did you do the artwork? Very professional looking.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Question. I know I'm not supposed to taste this yet, but hey. Who would bottle without tasting? 

I stabilized and cleared last weekend and racked again last night. At what point does this start tasting like wine? I haven't back sweetened yet and am wondering if that will change the flavor much. As of now, it has very little flavor so I'm wondering if back sweetening with a concentrate of some kind will be overkill or just adding sugar and waiting does the trick.


----------



## dangerdave

Everyone's DB seems to come out a little different, Lori. Everything from light blushes to bold ruby reds have been produced with this one recipe. When you say "very little flavor", how light are we talking. Regardless, give it some time. It will come around.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Very little meaning watered down. Kind of like 1/2 juice half water.


----------



## iVivid

LoneStarLori said:


> Those are really nice labels Viv. Did you do the artwork? Very professional looking.



Sure did; I do print and web design so lucky enough to have all the toys (ah hem I mean software).


----------



## jamesngalveston

Personally i double the fruit...my first batch I screwed up and added 12...by mistake...i still use 12, sometimes more.

Lori,,,go to the store get about 3 lbs strawberrys..
remove the stems, slice and put in pot, along with 3 cups sugar and cook for about 30 minutes on med, skim the white crap on top.
let cool and add to your db....let it clear, and bottle.
that will bring out all the berry flavor, after a month it will be excellent.


----------



## iVivid

To true James; this one I have added several punnets of strawberries in addition to the frozen mixed berries too! I'm hoping you will be able to taste them (love strawberries) but if not I will try a batch with less frozen mixed berries and more strawberries. I'm determined to make 3gal a week until I have a wonderful stockpile!

And every one can be different!


----------



## iVivid

LoneStarLori said:


> Very little meaning watered down. Kind of like 1/2 juice half water.



I didn't sweeten mine, but we tried a bottle with 1tbsp sugar added; it totally altered the flavour and took away that watery taste quite a bit. However I found it too sweet and preferred it without the sugar... age will also take the wateriness away...


----------



## LoneStarLori

iVivid said:


> Sure did; I do print and web design so lucky enough to have all the toys (ah hem I mean software).



It takes more than software to get that nice of a label. Talent comes into play and you sure have it.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Vivid..heres a hint. use twice the fruit.and 1/2 as much lemon, the berry flavor will be very pronounced....
If you want to sweeten....start it at 1.100 check it everyday until the sweetness is where you want it.. then zap it with a berry vodka until it reaches, .990 let it clear add campden, no sorbate and bottle...
the vodka will kick it up a notch about 20 percent, and you wont even notice it.


----------



## Tess

I use the called for fruit in the original recipe. I use half the lemon and it works out great!!! Who needs that much lemon?? Seriously?? Dont worry about it


----------



## Tess

James, you need to send me a bottle so at least I know what your taking about!! Im not kidding, I need something to judge all my bottle by!!


----------



## Tess

Is this a sticky yet??


----------



## frosti

jamesngalveston said:


> Vivid..heres a hint. use twice the fruit.and 1/2 as much lemon, the berry flavor will be very pronounced....
> If you want to sweeten....start it at 1.100 check it everyday until the sweetness is where you want it.. then zap it with a berry vodka until it reaches, .990 let it clear add campden, no sorbate and bottle...
> the vodka will kick it up a notch about 20 percent, and you wont even notice it.




I for one agree to this...extra fruit does help, but that being said...this is a CHEAP easy drinking wine....and with this one a few months bottle aging helps soooooo much.


----------



## RotGut76

I think I have my first stalled fermentation. I could be wrong. I started a batch of blueberry DBSP on 11/26/13. 1.080 SG today I am at 1.010 but it has been there for a few days. It's still a little "fizzy" though. Am I over reacting or should I just wait a few more days? I would like fully dry as I usually make it.


----------



## jamesngalveston

what yeast did you use, and how much yeast nutrient....if its still fizzy its still fermenting, may take a week are more....that usually means its in its second phase of fermenting, and when some move to secondary.
i for one leave it till there is no more fiz...are very very little.a quick test is to sprinkle a little yeast nutrient on top and see if it foams a little..if it does, yeast is still working.


----------



## RotGut76

jamesngalveston said:


> what yeast did you use, and how much yeast nutrient....if its still fizzy its still fermenting, may take a week are more....that usually means its in its second phase of fermenting, and when some move to secondary.
> i for one leave it till there is no more fiz...are very very little.a quick test is to sprinkle a little yeast nutrient on top and see if it foams a little..if it does, yeast is still working.



I used EC1118 and followed the recipe ver batim except for a little less lemon and all blue berries. I'm going to check again in the morning to see if any progress was made. Thanks!


----------



## Rosa321

I guess I did mean to post here....

I asked in the 15 day thread but it seems the conversation moved here. Anyway, I am a newbie very excited to start some DB! I had hoped to not encounter too many disasters along the way 

I'm doing my research and gathering the materials I need but I have a question I couldn't find the answer to. Do you just follow the package directions for the bentonite, or did you add a specific amount? Dave listed amounts for the other nutrients/chemicals, so I was just curious. I am not familiar with Bentonite, other than the little packages that come in wine kits. I don't want to make a novice mistake......
Thanks!!
Rosa


----------



## kryptonitewine

I don't use bentonite in my DB I don't believe it's part of any DB recipe I've seen.


----------



## JetJockey

dangerdave said:


> I've recently lowered my ferment temp from a warm 80F to 72F. The DB comes out much smoother from the get-go. You'll love it.
> 
> _RotGut76_: When I used the extra fruit in the DB, I put the fruit and it's juices into the clear wine (in a carboy) and let it sit for a month like that. I got no bitter taste in mine. It did come out fruitier, but---naturally---I lost some wine in the racking. I didn't think the improvement was enough to make it worth the fuss. I've since reverted back to the original---at a slightly lower temp.



Dave,
'Improvement' questions:
Other than colder fermentation temps, it sounds like you stick to the original amount of fruit (don't add extra fruit at any stage). Have you tried James extra fruit simple syrup to increase the berry flavor while backsweetening?

Will the EC-1118 work at temps between 60-68*F (my basement temp) or is that too cool?

You also mentioned an alternate yeast test a couple months back. Did the EC-1118 win out? 

Do you still like the 1/2 cup of oak chip addition after clearing?

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## reefman

Rosa,
Here's the link to Dave's "current" recipe for Triple Berry DB. It's the most recent thread on DB.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f2/dangerdaves-dragon-blood-wine-41825/
Bentonite is not listed in the recipe. 
Bentonite can be used in primary to help clear the must, or it can be added at the end of fermentation.
I use the following from E C Kraus website: recipe for use of bentonite is to mix is 3 tablespoons of Bentonite to 1 pint of boiling water. 
It is then recommended that you add 1 to 2 tablespoons of the slurry mix to each gallon of wine that is to be treated. 
Jack Keller's website also has recommendations for bentonite use, and he varies the amount according to the need, but give basic instructions for it's use (meaning it will vary with each application). 
Midwest supplies has a really good description of how much to add, and when it's added (beginning vs. end) as well.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/bentonite-fining-agent.html
I'm sure others will give further advise as well.


----------



## jamesngalveston

after having a fig wine from hell,that would not clear, i made a second batch using bentonite, adding on the 3 rd day of ferment (per turock)
after it was dry, i had no trouble clearing the 2nd batch.
the first batch took like 2 mos longer to clear.
I use it on every batch now....and it does not impart a taste.


----------



## dangerdave

In the end, the bentonite vs sparkolloid test came out identical. Use either or both. Your choice.

JetJokey: The EC-1118 works great at low temps like yours. It will takes longer to ferment. The yeast comparison was EC-1118 vs 71B-1122. The EC came out bolder, and the 71B came out smoother (more blush-like). Both were good. If you like oak, add oak. My wife, who hates dry, red, oaky wine, requested I no longer use oak. She is my biggest consumer (and I have to live with her), so I went with that.


----------



## jamesngalveston

very smart man you are.


----------



## Rosa321

reefman said:


> Rosa,
> Here's the link to Dave's "current" recipe for Triple Berry DB. It's the most recent thread on DB.
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f2/dangerdaves-dragon-blood-wine-41825/
> Bentonite is not listed in the recipe.
> Bentonite can be used in primary to help clear the must, or it can be added at the end of fermentation.
> I use the following from E C Kraus website: recipe for use of bentonite is to mix is 3 tablespoons of Bentonite to 1 pint of boiling water.
> It is then recommended that you add 1 to 2 tablespoons of the slurry mix to each gallon of wine that is to be treated.
> Jack Keller's website also has recommendations for bentonite use, and he varies the amount according to the need, but give basic instructions for it's use (meaning it will vary with each application).
> Midwest supplies has a really good description of how much to add, and when it's added (beginning vs. end) as well.
> http://www.midwestsupplies.com/bentonite-fining-agent.html
> I'm sure others will give further advise as well.


Thanks! I'm new and just joining the conversation. I definitely missunderstood. 
I thought Bentonite was the secret ingredient to the 15-day clearing. guess not!  I will try my first batch without it and try to keep things as simple as possible


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dragon blood is just fine with out using bentonite....IF you used a fruit like my fig...it helps, but less sediment prone fruits it really isnt needed.
I bought a bunch so i use..it, but all in all..doesnt make a difference.


----------



## JetJockey

dangerdave said:


> JetJokey: The EC-1118 works great at low temps like yours. It will takes longer to ferment. The yeast comparison was EC-1118 vs 71B-1122. The EC came out bolder, and the 71B came out smoother (more blush-like). Both were good. If you like oak, add oak. My wife, who hates dry, red, oaky wine, requested I no longer use oak. She is my biggest consumer (and I have to live with her), so I went with that.



Dave, as always your information is invaluable! Thoughts on extra fruit to get a bolder fruit flavor, i.e. extra fruit at end, more in beginning, fruit/sugar simple syrup to back sweeten (ala James' technique)?


----------



## dangerdave

JetJockey said:


> Dave, as always your information is invaluable! Thoughts on extra fruit to get a bolder fruit flavor, i.e. extra fruit at end, more in beginning, fruit/sugar simple syrup to back sweeten (ala James' technique)?


 
James is a big advocate for more fruit up front. I think he uses twice as much as the recipe calls for. I imagine it helps with his more potent version, helping to hide the increased ABV.

It's interesting that you ask about the fruit at the end. I made a bach this past summer, and after it had cleared, I dumped in another three pound bag of the triple berry fruit blend into the carboy and let it sit for a month to soak. The really interesting thing is how it turned out several months later in the bottle. It has developed a mild hint of "spice", almolst like a touch of cinnamon. I know it sounds strange, but that's the closest I can describe it. Amazing how changing one thing can lend a new flavor to an old recipe.

I have otherwise always back sweetened with plain white sugar to taste. Others make a syrup. Some have even made an extract from the fruit and added some sugar to flavor the wine.

So many options!


----------



## Rosa321

I just got my 6 pounds of fruit tonight and can't wait to start my first batch of dragon blood!  

but as per my personality I can't help but think ahead to what comes next... for the Blue Macaw recipe do you have to use honey? Do you taste any honey in the final product? I really do hate the stuff :-( Would something like corn syrup have the same effect? Or is there a reason you use honey?

Thanks!!!!


----------



## cohenhouse77

I think I have decided that I like drinking this young only. I have just opened a bottle that I let age for 1 year and I don't like it. We love this at 60 days. We opened the bottle at Thanksgiving and there were many that poured it out in the sink. Same batch that we were adoring 9 months ago. Interestingly, I am drinking a glass of the tropical, pineapple mango kiwi, right now and it is amazing after one year. 6 months ago, I was considering pouring it out to make room in some bottles for another batch.


----------



## dangerdave

Rosa321 said:


> I just got my 6 pounds of fruit tonight and can't wait to start my first batch of dragon blood!
> 
> but as per my personality I can't help but think ahead to what comes next... for the Blue Macaw recipe do you have to use honey? Do you taste any honey in the final product? I really do hate the stuff :-( Would something like corn syrup have the same effect? Or is there a reason you use honey?
> 
> Thanks!!!!


 
That's odd. I didn't use honey in my Blue Macaw recipe. It's possible I fudged my notes, though. Just make the DB, but sub out the fruit with some tropical blend. I used a peach/mango/pineapple/strawberry mix found in the freezer section of Walmart.


----------



## StoneCreek

Okay, I'm all in! I have spent the last few days reading topic after topic, thread after thread, recipe after recipe, and every post in this 98 page thread. I just got a brand spanking new Winemakers Depot equipment kit for Christmas thanks to my wonderful wife who overheard me telling someone that I would like to try my hand at making some wine from the huge Loquat tree we have in the yard. While doing some much needed learning on this site I ran across a post from Tess instructing another noob to make Dave's DB first as a primer. Followed the link to this thread and I've been hooked due to it's simplicity, low cost, quick to bottle and quick to drink aspect. I started reading this thread last Friday night and Saturday made a 150 mile round trip to my closest home brew store and picked up all the needed chemicals and a few equipment needs. Last night I made a quick trip to the local Walmart and picked up the ingredients. This morning after sanitizing everything (scrubed everything last night) I began the first steps to making my very first wine. Wish me well. The following is the ingredients I used to make it mine:

32oz Great Value (GV) 100% Lemon Juice
3# GV No Sugar Added Whole Berry Blend - Strawberry, Blackberry, Blueberry, Red raspberry
3# GV No Sugar Added Triple Berry Blend - Whole Blueberry, Strawberry, Red Raspberry
12oz California Raisins somewhat coarsely chopped (for added body?)
25 cups of granulated sugar
starting S.G. was 1.090

I thawed the fruit in the fridge overnight and nuked it this morning to warm it up before putting all the fruit into a nylon mesh bag.

I also picked up another 12oz box of raisins to add after the first racking to help with body. Is this a good idea? If so, when should I add them and should I add more? I really don't want to go back through the last 98 pages to reacquaint myself with this procedure. Thanks for all the help and advice everyone has given thus far through all the fantastic post. 

Also, the recipe states to wait 12-24 hours before pitching the yeast. What is the advantage to waiting 24 hours as opposed to only 12? Yes, I am an impatient person. This hobby is to help me overcome that, however, I plan on easing into the patient part.

Tess and DangerDave, if this turns out, and I'm sure it will, I'll be asking for your address to send you a bottle for your tasting and critique since I owe this discovery to you guys.


----------



## Winenoob66

Welcome to the forums StoneCreek, lol and sorry about your new addiction but hey at least it is one that pays off.


----------



## cmason1957

StoneCreek said:


> Okay, I'm all in! ..........
> 
> I also picked up another 12oz box of raisins to add after the first racking to help with body. Is this a good idea? If so, when should I add them and should I add more? I really don't want to go back through the last 98 pages to reacquaint myself with this procedure. Thanks for all the help and advice everyone has given thus far through all the fantastic post.
> 
> Also, the recipe states to wait 12-24 hours before pitching the yeast. What is the advantage to waiting 24 hours as opposed to only 12? Yes, I am an impatient person. This hobby is to help me overcome that, however, I plan on easing into the patient part.
> 
> Tess and DangerDave, if this turns out, and I'm sure it will, I'll be asking for your address to send you a bottle for your tasting and critique since I owe this discovery to you guys.



For your first batch, I would advise follow those directions written by Dave almost to a T. They wont steer you wrong and have been time tested by many folks. Learn the process of making wine before you tweak things. 

I am not a raisan adder, in general. They give a foreign taste that I don't care for. Many people seem to use them.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree with cmason...for your first batch follow the recipe to a t.
no additions, no second guessing.
you want the fruit to breakdown , thus 24 hours not 12....


----------



## StoneCreek

Thanks for the advice. I'll wait until morning to pitch the yeast.


----------



## StoneCreek

Well, I waited the full 24 hours and just pitched my yeast. I am officially making my very first batch of wine! Now back to looking for great deals on more carboys. from what I've read, one can never have to many.


----------



## datcv

Deleting double post.


----------



## datcv

*Snozberry Wine*

Well I just lost most of the day reading through this thread. I will definitely be making a small batch of this in the near future! I need to get that cider out of my carboy.

Has anyone tried making this with just raspberries? I saw some people say they don't really care for raspberry, but I am the opposite... I love raspberries the most.

I have searched the interwebs for a recipe on making Korean black raspberry wine (bokbunja joo) but didn't find anything concrete. It is high alcohol content (18-20%) and made with Asian black raspberries (wine berries?) native to Korea, Japan, and China (they are also considered to be a bit of an invasive species in some places in the US).


----------



## StoneCreek

datcv said:


> ...
> Has anyone tried making this with just raspberries? I saw some people say they don't really care for raspberry, but I am the opposite... I love raspberries the most.
> ...



That does sound good. I also love raspberries!


----------



## jamesngalveston

i have made a straight rasbperry at 15%abv and it was very good, had a nice berry taste, but not strong.


----------



## Winenoob66

Hey StoneCreek keep a check on craigslist also a lot of times ya can find really good deals on wine making equipment there.


----------



## dangerdave

Wow! That's a lot of reading. Stonecreek, I'll hold you to that offer to critique your DB. PM me when it's ready!

Because of the overwhelming interest in this recipe, we are trying to consolidate the discussion here: DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine.

In the OP, there, you will find the newest version of the recipe, and an attached pfd file for easy reference.

Enjoy!


----------



## StoneCreek

dangerdave said:


> Wow! That's a lot of reading. Stonecreek, I'll hold you to that offer to critique your DB. PM me when it's ready!
> 
> Because of the overwhelming interest in this recipe, we are trying to consolidate the discussion here: DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine.
> 
> In the OP, there, you will find the newest version of the recipe, and an attached pfd file for easy reference.
> 
> Enjoy!



I also read that thread from beginning to end and also saved the PDF (along with a few other recipes found on here). I will definitely PM you for your address when this finishes up.


----------



## GaDawg

Thanks, I been making kits, but would like to try DB


----------



## Rmstuck

Quick question I started DB yesterday so today I'm adding the yeast do I seal the lid and put in vapo lock or continue to leave the lid loose on top with a towel over it? 


Rmstuck Newbie


----------



## StoneCreek

Leave the lid loose or place a clean towel over the top. My first batch had a very vigorous ferment. You definitely don't want a tight seal or airlock until you rack to secondary. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Rmstuck

Thank you stonecreek


Rmstuck Newbie


----------



## jamesngalveston

leave loose with a towel......use your air lock when you move to the second container.


----------



## Gussman

Oh Robin, this sounds terrific. I'm going to make it ASAP


----------



## bkisel

jamesngalveston said:


> leave loose with a towel......use your air lock when you move to the second container.



Just so folks know... Without issues I've done 5 DB batches and gone to dry in the primary bucket. I did remove the fruit and lock down at SG 1.010-1.000. I know the process differs from the DB instructions found in the first post of this thread but I loke to use my RJS VdV steps for making the DB. When I do higher end wins (e.g. RJS CC WS) I will rack to do secondary in a carboy.


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## kb3dmy

*New guy here*

when making this I have 12 lbs of triple berry fruit blend frozen and this calls for 6 can I use all 12 lbs plus 6 banana's with the lemon juice? I really like the triple berry never had homemade wine till this year and triple berry was the first glass I had and I LOVED IT,thanks to a friend who's taught me the basics. And can the SG be brought up to 1.090 starting?


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## Winenoob66

yes to all

Just the higher the SG the more time for it to mellow


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## Jal5

I racked the 5 g. DB today and backsweetened with simple sugar syrup to 1.006 SG which tasted pretty good to us. Now it is resting back in the carboy for a few days while I am waiting on an order of corks to bottle almost 4.75 .The wine has a little more headspace now as it only rises to just over the shoulder of that 5 g. bottle- will that be ok for a few days? I have another gallon still fermenting of the higher ABV as noted in a previous post. I have a 1/2 g bottle that is half filled with wine+lees that I am letting settle to see if I can save anymore of it or not. Probably will get tossed out though. 
My question: do I have to put anything else in that 5 g batch now or when I bottle in a few days? It was already treated with k-meta and k sorbate and fining agents when I racked it last week.
This tastes pretty good right now and this has been a fun wine to make. 
Thanks.
Joe


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## willie

Jal5 said:


> I racked the 5 g. DB today and backsweetened with simple sugar syrup to 1.006 SG which tasted pretty good to us. Now it is resting back in the carboy for a few days while I am waiting on an order of corks to bottle almost 4.75 .The wine has a little more headspace now as it only rises to just over the shoulder of that 5 g. bottle- will that be ok for a few days? I have another gallon still fermenting of the higher ABV as noted in a previous post. I have a 1/2 g bottle that is half filled with wine+lees that I am letting settle to see if I can save anymore of it or not. Probably will get tossed out though.
> My question: do I have to put anything else in that 5 g batch now or when I bottle in a few days? It was already treated with k-meta and k sorbate and fining agents when I racked it last week.
> This tastes pretty good right now and this has been a fun wine to make.
> Thanks.
> Joe



Nothing else that you should add. If I may, you could filter the 5g before bottling. 

Will


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## Jal5

thx Willie. It looks perfectly clear already. And I think I will save about one 750ml bottle from how the lees settled down over night. That looks clear too.
So the yield will be just about 5 gal. of the regular 11% alcohol batch, plus another gallon of the higher alcohol batch, not sure what that ABV will actually end up. 
Joe


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