# Wacky measurements for 1st time fresh peaches wine



## Khristyjeff (Jul 18, 2021)

This is my 1st go at country wines so thought I'd seek help here. Starting SG was 1.045 after extracting enough juice through a metal strainer. I took a tip from @cmason1957 and used FermCalc JS calculator to determine the amount of simple syrup I should add to get an SG of 1.085. It called for 3#'s (6 Cups) of sugar to half as much water. After adding and waiting several hours, I took another sample and got a new SG of only 1.055. That didn't sound right since at this rate I would need to add a bunch of more sugar to get to the 1.085 mark. Ideas?

I haven't pitched the yeast yet because I wanted to get my numbers right first, but I think I have to add the yeast today since it's been 2 nights now with juice/mush in a bucket. I did add K-Meta, yeast nutrient, and acid blend so far. I really appreciate any advice you experienced winemakers can give.


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## sour_grapes (Jul 18, 2021)

A couple of random thoughts:

Did you make the simple syrup by heating the water? I.e., is there any chance the sugar was not dissolved?

I take it that this is a 3 gallon batch? Did I get that correct?


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## hounddawg (Jul 18, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> This is my 1st go at country wines so thought I'd seek help here. Starting SG was 1.045 after extracting enough juice through a metal strainer. I took a tip from @cmason1957 and used FermCalc JS calculator to determine the amount of simple syrup I should add to get an SG of 1.085. It called for 3#'s (6 Cups) of sugar to half as much water. After adding and waiting several hours, I took another sample and got a new SG of only 1.055. That didn't sound right since at this rate I would need to add a bunch of more sugar to get to the 1.085 mark. Ideas?
> 
> I haven't pitched the yeast yet because I wanted to get my numbers right first, but I think I have to add the yeast today since it's been 2 nights now with juice/mush in a bucket. I did add K-Meta, yeast nutrient, and acid blend so far. I really appreciate any advice you experienced winemakers can give.


what type fruit?
as well on all my wines i never use simple syrup, i use dry sugar and stir using a cordless or a drill. if drill be very careful.
Dawg
AH peaches, i see. duh,,, 
is their vascular fluid, to much pulp could account for some erratic readings,
if me, and you have a stir that fits a drill/cordless, or take a plastic coat hanger cut on straight just before the bend on one end, then on other end cut past that bend, you might even have to cut some of the bend off, stir really well, take reading and if more is needed add a little dry sugar then stir more, making sure to add only a little sugar at a time.
Dawg


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 18, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> I take it that this is a 3 gallon batch? Did I get that correct?


Yes, 3 gallon, and I heated the sugar water until it was clear.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 18, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> to much pulp could account for some erratic readings,


Thanks for responding Dawg. Here is a picture of an SG reading from this morning. I use a metal strainer to get rid of some of the solids. See what you think from this picture.


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## cmason1957 (Jul 18, 2021)

Sometimes theory and actuality differ. Who knows why. I would recalculate how much sugar to add, add half of that and seed what happens. Sorry there isn't a firm answer.


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## Rice_Guy (Jul 18, 2021)

You are dealing with peach juice which means that pulp is not involved.
Comparison on peaches I have run; 1.050/ (store peaches) 1.042/ 1.056/ (home grown & ripened) 1.070 ,,,,, i ripen peaches a few days before juicing to get a higher gravity. Your starting material would have better flavor if it was softened two days. ,,,, However back sweetening should fix this when you bottle.

A key is lots of pectase before fermenting.

If I started at 1.045 (12.52%) and wanted 1.085 (25.64%) I would expect to need 500 grams of dry sugar per gallon of starting juice, and the volume would increase by 0.15 gallon.

You are adding sample syrup so you are also diluting when you add sugar so my numbers are going to be off by a few ounces per gallon starting volume. As Craig says play safe mix half in, check, mix half etc.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 18, 2021)

Thanks for your replies. I see how Pectic Enzyme will be my friend. I first dosed each gallon bag of sliced peaches before I froze them, then again when I crushed the peaches. When should I add more? 

Also, I pitched the yeast this afternoon since it had been juice in a bucket for 2 nights. So, I figured I can add simple syrup later perhaps after some of the solids separate. Maybe I'll get better numbers then to work with. I'll follow your advice to add the sugar solution in smaller doses and check in between. Always something new to learn! 

Thanks again for your help.


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## Rice_Guy (Jul 19, 2021)

I like @hounddawg have not made simple syrup for years. The math for gravity and volume increase is cleaner if I just add sugar and stir.

Pectase is a protein which is capable of catalyzing the reaction of hydrolyzing pectin molecules. There isn’t any legal limit on how much to use and when the substrate is gone it just sits there waiting in case some more shows up. , ,,, when? sooner is better since it’s efficiency decreases as alcohol is formed.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 19, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> I like @hounddawg have not made simple syrup for years. The math for gravity and volume increase is cleaner if I just add sugar and stir.
> 
> Pectase is a protein which is capable of catalyzing the reaction of hydrolyzing pectin molecules. There isn’t any legal limit on how much to use and when the substrate is gone it just sits there waiting in case some more shows up. , ,,, when? sooner is better since it’s efficiency decreases as alcohol is formed.


OK. I'll add some today!


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## Daboyleroy (Jul 19, 2021)

Pectase is a protein which is capable of catalyzing the reaction of hydrolyzing pectin molecules. There isn’t any legal limit on how much to use and when the substrate is gone it just sits there waiting in case some more shows up. , ,,, when? sooner is better since it’s efficiency decreases as alcohol is formed.
[/QUOTE]

pectase



The first principal component (PC1) separated the wine from the extracted wine with pectase from other samples based on the higher concentrations of medium-chain fatty acids (octanoic and n-hexadecanoic acid) and mediumchain ethyl esters (ethyl octanoate, ethyl palmitate, and ethyl octadecanoate).

The wine from nonextracted pulpy juice with pectase (B) showed favorable acceptability compared to the others.

Wine from the extracted juice with pectase (*); wine from the extracted juice without pectase (**); wine from nonextracted pulpy juice with pectase (***); wine from nonextracted pulpy juice without pectase (***).

(A) Wine from the extracted juice with pectase, (B) wine from the extracted juice without pectase, (C) wine from nonextracted pulpyjuice with pectase, and (D) wine from nonextracted pulpyjuice without pectase.



*Click the like below .......worth the effort and read*

Quality Comparison of Hawthorn Wines Fermented by Saccharomyces cerevisiae with and without Pulp Contact and Pectase Treatment


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 19, 2021)

@Daboyleroy That was a good read. I'll keep the study in mind. Thanks for posting.


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## Steve Wargo (Jul 19, 2021)

This might be food for thought. 

How "Tree" ripen were your peaches? Most store-bought peaches are picked before they are fully ripened. I am not sure how much starch is locked in a peach that is not fully "tree" ripened. Starches can be converted to sugar using the proper enzymes. Alpha and Beta Amylase. Just a thought. Someone that has their own Peach trees might not have to worry about this issue.

Stone fruits such as apricots, nectarines, peaches, plums and cherries also contain little to no starch when fully ripen. These fruits generally don’t develop more sugar after they’ve been harvested, but they do get softer and juicier when left at room temperature. Sugar accounts for nearly 90 percent of the calories provided by a ripe peach, and more than 80 percent of the calories you get from cherries. Both fruits are starch-free, according to the USDA.






List of Non-Starchy Fruits


List of Non-Starchy Fruits. The next time you bite into a ripe peach, you can thank the sun – and time – for providing such sweet succulence. Carbohydrates are a product of photosynthesis, and they help fuel the growth of the plants that make them. Fruit generally contains significant amounts of...




healthyeating.sfgate.com


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 19, 2021)

Steve Wargo said:


> This might be food for thought.
> 
> How "Tree" ripen were your peaches? Most store-bought peaches are picked before they are fully ripened. I am not sure how much starch is locked in a peach that is not fully "tree" ripened. Starches can be converted to sugar using the proper enzymes. Alpha and Beta Amylase. Just a thought. Someone that has their own Peach trees might not have to worry about this issue.
> 
> ...


Interesting @Steve Wargo. These peaches came off the "Peach Truck" from Georgia and we let them ripen 3 days laid out on a table. They were pretty soft and quite juicy when we processed them for the freezer. Good flavor.


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## Raptor99 (Jul 19, 2021)

@Daboyleroy Thanks for sharing the link. My organic chemistry isn't very good, but the conclusion seems to be that you get more fruit flavor and aroma by (1) fermenting on the fruit pulp, and (2) adding pectase. Not surprising, but it is nice to see some laboratory tests to confirm this approach.

@Khristyjeff I like the idea of adding pectase before freezing the fruit as well as when starting the ferment. I think that I'm going to start doing that.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 19, 2021)

Raptor99 said:


> @Khristyjeff I like the idea of adding pectase before freezing the fruit as well as when starting the ferment. I think that I'm going to start doing that.


I believe it was @pillswoj and maybe @Scooter68 that gave me that idea to give the pectate a head start as the peaches take some time to freeze. I just added a triple dose of pectase today and punched down the cap. It was pretty dense and thick. Guess I wasn't expecting that. 
Plan is to punch down twice daily. 
I'll also try to get an SG reading again tonight to see if it makes more sense. It appears that there already may be fewer solids in the juice so that's a good thing.


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## Raptor99 (Jul 19, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> I believe it was @pillswoj and maybe @Scooter68 that gave me that idea to give the pectate a head start as the peaches take some time to freeze. I just added a triple dose of pectase today and punched down the cap. It was pretty dense and thick. Guess I wasn't expecting that.
> Plan is to punch down twice daily.
> I'll also try to get an SG reading again tonight to see if it makes more sense. It appears that there already may be fewer solids in the juice so that's a good thing.



I use a refractometer, so it is even more difficult to get a good reading with lots of solids in the juice. I have sometimes used a coffee filter to filter out the solids so that I can get a better reading.


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## hounddawg (Jul 19, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> Thanks for responding Dawg. Here is a picture of an SG reading from this morning. I use a metal strainer to get rid of some of the solids. See what you think from this picture. View attachment 76646
> View attachment 76646


looks good. as stated by others, all fruits should be over ripe before freezing and pressing
Dawg


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## Jovimaple (Jul 19, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> Yes, 3 gallon, and I heated the sugar water until it was clear.


About how many peaches did it take to get 3 gallons of juice?


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 19, 2021)

Jovimaple said:


> About how many peaches did it take to get 3 gallons of juice?


I used 90 peaches but should have used more. These were small to medium in size. I weighed some to see how many added up to a pound then went from there. With added sugar water, I'm just over 3 gallon so after racking off all the lees, I'll be well under 3.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 19, 2021)

Just a thought and I know this is a bit late to help but.... I would have kept the peach pulp and skins in the fermentation container. Put them into a mesh bag perhaps but keep them in the game. That pulp and the skins have a LOT of good flavor and color to add to your wine. Too late for this go round perhaps but consider that for the future. I usually run my peaches through a slow juicer or a cone shaped ricer. Even then I usually put the skins back into the wine just to get the last bit of good stuff from the skins. Of course this means that you will need 2-3 times the normal pectic enzyme and the wine will take longer to clear but it is really really worth the effort.

As to how many peaches - that's really a number that doesn't matter. Peach sizes differ as well as the peach stone. The number to look at is the pounds of peaches used for the batch. (Last batch I made had about 24 lbs after destoning the peaches for a 3 gallon batch.) And of course as I said above using the skins and pulp will contribute a lot to the flavor and aroma among other things. Shoot I've actually kept the pulp and skins after the ferment and used them for a wicked vanilla ice cream topping. (Yeah you get that yeasty smell too but the oveall flavor of that was great. It inspired me to make a batch of Peach Vanille wine later.


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## DizzyIzzy (Jul 19, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> what type fruit?
> as well on all my wines i never use simple syrup, i use dry sugar and stir using a cordless or a drill. if drill be very careful.
> Dawg
> AH peaches, i see. duh,,,
> ...


Dawg..........................you are back! I have been praying for you and hoping you are alright. Many of us on here have been concerned. Good to hear you are up and about, up to your usual nonsensical self...............................................................DizzyIzzy


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 19, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Just a thought and I know this is a bit late to help but.... I would have kept the peach pulp and skins in the fermentation container. Put them into a mesh bag perhaps but keep them in the game. That pulp and the skins have a LOT of good flavor and color to add to your wine. Too late for this go round perhaps but consider that for the future. I usually run my peaches through a slow juicer or a cone shaped ricer. Even then I usually put the skins back into the wine just to get the last bit of good stuff from the skins. Of course this means that you will need 2-3 times the normal pectic enzyme and the wine will take longer to clear but it is really really worth the effort.
> 
> As to how many peaches - that's really a number that doesn't matter. Peach sizes differ as well as the peach stone. The number to look at is the pounds of peaches used for the batch. (Last batch I made had about 24 lbs after destoning the peaches for a 3 gallon batch.) And of course as I said above using the skins and pulp will contribute a lot to the flavor and aroma among other things. Shoot I've actually kept the pulp and skins after the ferment and used them for a wicked vanilla ice cream topping. (Yeah you get that yeasty smell too but the oveall flavor of that was great. It inspired me to make a batch of Peach Vanille wine later.


Thanks @Scooter68 for your helpful comments. Your previous posts contributed in a big way to my plan for this peach wine venture!
I actually do have all the skins and pulp still in the fermenter so we should be on track there for flavor. The 10 pounds/gallon of peaches resulted in 24.54 pounds after destoning for a 3 gallon batch, so that tracks almost exactly with your notes. 
You had mentioned that getting an accurate SG reading is a challenge and I agree! Starting SG from strained juice for me was 1.045. After pitching yeast yesterday, then adding simple syrup, tonight the SG is 1.072. I was shooting for a starting SG of 1.085 so do you suggest I just hope for the best, or add more sugar?


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## hounddawg (Jul 19, 2021)

since I've never made traditional wine yet,,, just country, i have always use the skins, and pulp, 
and i would not presume to speak for @Scooter68, from a SG of 1.072 to 1.085 just ball parking' but your main difference would be a little higher ABV,,, peach is a delicate flavor, so to much ABV will overwhelm your flavor, i can't remember , but didn't you add simple syrup at the start, the reason i have never used simple syrup,, as your adding water to your lite flavor peach wine, now this is just me, and only on fruit/berry from scratch, concentrates is a different animal altogether, and i freely without any reservations do believe @Scooter68 , is very skilled in country style wines, and more then likely tadeonal wines as well,, i defiantly rely on him among others, 
Dawg


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 19, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> since I've never made traditional wine yet,,, just country, i have always use the skins, and pulp,
> and i would not presume to speak for @Scooter68, from a SG of 1.072 to 1.085 just ball parking' but your main difference would be a little higher ABV,,, peach is a delicate flavor, so to much ABV will overwhelm your flavor, i can't remember , but didn't you add simple syrup at the start, the reason i have never used simple syrup,, as your adding water to your lite flavor peach wine, now this is just me, and only on fruit/berry from scratch, concentrates is a different animal altogether, and i freely without any reservations do believe @Scooter68 , is very skilled in country style wines, and more then likely tadeonal wines as well,, i defiantly rely on him among others,
> Dawg


@hounddawg 
Your posts are the ones I read about how you "step feed" your wines to get higher ABV, so even though I'm not trying for high ABV, I am trying to boost ABV a bit after I've already started fermentation. I was actually thinking you'd be a great resource to offer me advice on that.

So Dawg, I guess my question for you: Assuming my SG is now 1.072 and I want to boost it to 1.085 using straight sugar, realizing it's been fermenting for 1 day, how much sugar would you add? I'm just looking for ballpark, best guess. I'm shooting for good tasting (the skins and pulp are in fermentor as I type), 10-13% range for ABV. 

Thanks, and so glad you're back.


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## Steve Wargo (Jul 20, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> Interesting @Steve Wargo. These peaches came off the "Peach Truck" from Georgia and we let them ripen 3 days laid out on a table. They were pretty soft and quite juicy when we processed them for the freezer. Good flavor.


I thought the article was a good read. It's not about winemaking, but does provide insight into sugar/starch contained in fruits at different maturation stages, before and after the fruit is picked. 

More food for thought, and not usually a winemaking topic. There is an iodine test that can be done that will determine if starch is present in the must. Use a small glass, some clear as possible must juice, and a drop of two of iodine. If the contents turn blue-black there is a lot of starch that can be converted to sugar in the must using beta-amylase. This is usually, a distiller's practice. but can be applicable to winemaking if one wants to obtain higher starting gravities (SG) using the fruit's natural sugars, less processed sugar.. If this is not of interest then ignore the link below.

or See link below:
*Lugol's* *Iodine* Solution can be purchased at a health food store or possibly a local drug store.





Iodine Test - German brewing and more







www.braukaiser.com


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## Scooter68 (Jul 20, 2021)

I understand how confusing the SG measurements look so far. At a "Startiing SG of 1.060 (which is how I'm reading those photos you posted) if it ferments all the way to .990 you are going to have an ABV of about 9.19% which is just a tad low for where I'd want to be, BUT; if the fermentation had already been going on for at least 24 hrs before you got that reading, I suspect you are going end up with an ABV of at least 10%. As to step feeding I wouldn't worry about that but certainly I don't think a couple of cups of sugar dissolved in 1 cup water is going to reduce the flavor of your wine. From the quantity of peaches you stated I think the flavor will not be harmed at all with one more addition of what will probably end up as 2 3/4 cup of simple syrup. 24 lbs of peaches for 3 gallons of wine should give you an excellent full flavored wine, even with the use of simple syrup.

By the way what was your actual starting volume in the bucket? For me a 3 gallon batch of peach I would want at least 3 3/4 gallons of volume or even 4 gallons. There is going to be a good bit of volume lost as you remove the solids and dead yeast once fermentation is over. Peach by the way, for me normally requires filtering of the gross lees from after the first racking (At an SG of 1.010 or lower) . It's a painful process because I have to swirl the gross lees in a large stainless steel fine mesh strainer. Once I've done that I that that strained liquid and chill it in the fridge for a day or two. That normally gives some pretty good separation of the lees and recoverable wine. 

Peach wine is a bit more work that most others but the result is certainly worth it to me. Sadly this year our local peach crop (nearby commercial orchards) failed due to a late freeze. So I have to wait and hope for a good crop next year.

Keep us posted on the progress.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 20, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> By the way what was your actual starting volume in the bucket?


I started with just under 3 gallons, then with the addition of 3 pounds of sugar in water, was just over 3 gallons. Like you said, I'm going to lose a lot with the removal of the gross lees so will probably need to use an All In One Headspace Eliminator to remove the air in the 3 gallon carboy.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 21, 2021)

I'd still consider moving down to smaller containers if you are well under 3 gallons once the racking and filtering is all done. Even an All-in-one can only remove some much O2, If you do actually step feed it, since you started with 24 + pounds you won't dilute the flavor enough matter by doing a simple syrup (SS) and you'll also be able to get a new updated SG reading as soon as you stir in the additional SS and that will make keeping tabs on the potential ABV a bit easier. Even the little dilutrion of the ABV with the addtion will amount to probably less than 1% at most. (Assuming your SS is a 2-1 mix) Personally I think you should be good but you could help out your volume and ABV with one step feed anytime before the SG gets too close to 1.000.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 21, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> I'd still consider moving down to smaller containers if you are well under 3 gallons once the racking and filtering is all done. Even an All-in-one can only remove some much O2, If you do actually step feed it, since you started with 24 + pounds you won't dilute the flavor enough matter by doing a simple syrup (SS) and you'll also be able to get a new updated SG reading as soon as you stir in the additional SS and that will make keeping tabs on the potential ABV a bit easier. Even the little dilutrion of the ABV with the addtion will amount to probably less than 1% at most. (Assuming your SS is a 2-1 mix) Personally I think you should be good but you could help out your volume and ABV with one step feed anytime before the SG gets too close to 1.000.


That sounds like good advice. I'll plan on adding simple syrup 2:1 sugar to water before the SG gets to 1.000. Thanks.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 21, 2021)

Forgot to mention, for that 3 gallon batch 1 mix (2 cup sugar 1 cup water) yields about 2 3/4 cups that that should help out with out raising the ABV too much or diluting the wine either. Plus it will increase your volume a little bit more too,.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 21, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Forgot to mention, for that 3 gallon batch 1 mix (2 cup sugar 1 cup water) yields about 2 3/4 cups that that should help out with out raising the ABV too much or diluting the wine either. Plus it will increase your volume a little bit more too,.


So, my SG was down to 1.006 when I added the simple syrup. However I didn't see your comment before I added 4 cups sugar to 2 cups water. Hopefully will be OK. Worst case scenario, I end up with some @hounddawg -style wine.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 22, 2021)

Should be fine. Did you retake the SG after the addition? That will tell you how much you potentially raised your ABV (not exact but a good idea +/- 1/2 percent roughly.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 24, 2021)

SG was down to 1.010 today so I'm trying to rack the juice to a 3 gallon carboy. I'm using The AIO pump and free run tube but with peach being so fleshy, it's a slow process. I have about 2 gallons of juice so far but now believe I need to press or put in a mesh bag or push through a strainer to get the last gallon. Any suggestions? Thanks for any advice.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 24, 2021)

All of the ideas you mentioned are ones I've used. Peach just takes a little extra work Since it's still fermenting that 3 gallon carbody doesn't and really shouldn't be full. Once you have, pressed or strained out the last of the juice, I personally would put that either back into the carboy (Still leaving plenty of head space), or put it in a fridge to help speed settling. That will also temporarily slow the fermentation of that recovered juice while it's in the fridge. It should restart once you get it separated and added back to the carboy.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 25, 2021)

Thanks Scooter. I am going to save all your suggestions for the next time I do this. Great detail. 
I tried pushing the mush through a strainer and and quickly realized that was a no-go. Then I ended up taking the last bit of mush and placing it little by little in a mesh brew bag then squeezing out the juice from the flesh; seemed to work well. I got a little more than 1 gallon from this. 
It is all in the 3 gallon carboy now, so I'll still have to deal with solids that need to settle.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 25, 2021)

Looks great and a lot like what I've had several times. Whatever works to take that last juice from the peach pulp. I've twisted and pressed my mesh bags and usually end up getting a hole in them after the effort but that's just one of the costs of making wine.


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## Jovimaple (Jul 25, 2021)

I am expecting about 80 lbs of peaches in August - half from Washington and half from Colorado. I will be using a large chunk of that for wine, or at least that's the plan! I am going to freeze them with pectic enzyme.

I plan to slice them before freezing, thaw, then press/juice them through a mesh bag lined press so I can put the mesh bag with the pulp and skins in the must during AF.

@Scooter68 Do you see any issues with this plan? Any benefit to peeling them before freezing and then freezing the peels separately? I was thinking I could skip the peeling step since I want the peels in the must anyway.


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## Khristyjeff (Jul 25, 2021)

Jovimaple said:


> I am expecting about 80 lbs of peaches in August - half from Washington and half from Colorado. I will be using a large chunk of that for wine, or at least that's the plan! I am going to freeze them with pectic enzyme.
> 
> I plan to slice them before freezing, thaw, then press/juice them through a mesh bag lined press so I can put the mesh bag with the pulp and skins in the must during AF.
> 
> @Scooter68 Do you see any issues with this plan? Any benefit to peeling them before freezing and then freezing the peels separately? I was thinking I could skip the peeling step since I want the peels in the must anyway.


From my recent experience, your plan sounds good. Having the pressed peaches in a bag is the way to go. No need to peel the peaches. The skins add flavor and just become part of the single color globby mess anyway. I'd post pictures of said glossy mess, but they're too disgusting for weak stomachs.


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## Jovimaple (Jul 25, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> From my recent experience, your plan sounds good. Having the pressed peaches in a bag is the way to go. No need to peel the peaches. The skins add flavor and just become part of the single color globby mess anyway. I'd post pictures of said globby mess, but they're too disgusting for weak stomachs.


Strawberries are gross after fermentation, too. Sad and globby is right!


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## Scooter68 (Jul 26, 2021)

The only issue I've had with peaches is that when I mash or run them through the slow juicer (Takes a LOT of time for the latter) is that the must is very THICK almost to pudding consistency. That make an accurate SG reading very hard. Other than that and the LONG LONG time it takes peach wine to clear I see nothing wrong with your plans. The most important part is planning for early and heavy use of pectic enzyme, pectinase or whatever type of pectin breakdown additive you chose to use. I've waited almost 18 months for one batch to clear but on the up side, didn't have to de-gas and it was certainly aged enough drink by that time.

As a experimental suggestion - you might try a small portion of your peach wine with pure vanilla extract. That Idea came to me from my very first batch of peach wine. The left over pulp smelled yeasty but there was so much decent looking pulp and skins that I tried a bit of is over vanilla ice cream, it was GREAT ! (First batch didn't get the full-court mash and press process so the gross lees were not totally goopy) Just an idea for a variation. I used vanilla bean for my peach vanilla but actually any good quality REAL vanilla extract is fine just go easy on the additive or you will have a Vanilla - Peach wine not the other way around. It's really great as a chilled wine on a hot day.


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## Jovimaple (Jul 26, 2021)

@Khristyjeff and @Scooter68 Thank you both for the good info. I have been doing the math and I MAY end up with enough peaches to do 6 gallons (at least to start) but I have to figure out my carboy population since I will anticipate needing carboy space for longer than my usual country wines.

Earlier this year, I started some cacao nibs and vanilla (separately) in vodka so I will have extracts of both to use in my wines. I haven't tried using either yet but the peach with a little vanilla sounds wonderful!


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## hounddawg (Aug 1, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> @hounddawg
> Your posts are the ones I read about how you "step feed" your wines to get higher ABV, so even though I'm not trying for high ABV, I am trying to boost ABV a bit after I've already started fermentation. I was actually thinking you'd be a great resource to offer me advice on that.
> 
> So Dawg, I guess my question for you: Assuming my SG is now 1.072 and I want to boost it to 1.085 using straight sugar, realizing it's been fermenting for 1 day, how much sugar would you add? I'm just looking for ballpark, best guess. I'm shooting for good tasting (the skins and pulp are in fermentor as I type), 10-13% range for ABV.
> ...


no i was just replying to the from scratch on ABV,,, right now i have a couple carboys of peach, it was very hot, i racked today at around 16 months, the peach is way more peach and while ABV is still a might ruff, but i believe in another year it will be very good, most all of my past wines were from scratch, now I've went full tilt into concentrates. this allows less water and more concentrate. 
which allows to front load your flavor, then time helps most all, 
i would let it ferment, as it slows. i'd add yeast energizer and yeast nutrient , stir take SG that add small amounts of dry sugar to add till you have raised your SG by .010, that should ball park you,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Aug 1, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> The only issue I've had with peaches is that when I mash or run them through the slow juicer (Takes a LOT of time for the latter) is that the must is very THICK almost to pudding consistency. That make an accurate SG reading very hard. Other than that and the LONG LONG time it takes peach wine to clear I see nothing wrong with your plans. The most important part is planning for early and heavy use of pectic enzyme, pectinase or whatever type of pectin breakdown additive you chose to use. I've waited almost 18 months for one batch to clear but on the up side, didn't have to de-gas and it was certainly aged enough drink by that time.
> 
> As a experimental suggestion - you might try a small portion of your peach wine with pure vanilla extract. That Idea came to me from my very first batch of peach wine. The left over pulp smelled yeasty but there was so much decent looking pulp and skins that I tried a bit of is over vanilla ice cream, it was GREAT ! (First batch didn't get the full-court mash and press process so the gross lees were not totally goopy) Just an idea for a variation. I used vanilla bean for my peach vanilla but actually any good quality REAL vanilla extract is fine just go easy on the additive or you will have a Vanilla - Peach wine not the other way around. It's really great as a chilled wine on a hot day.


yup time,,
Dawg


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 1, 2021)

The peach wine has been aging in a carboy since I last posted here. I've been checking SG which has been very slowly ticking down. It's currently at 0.997. 4 days ago was at 0.998. Yesterday and today, I've noticed a slight rotten egg smell, so stirred it last night (which didn't help) and used the drill and whip on it tonight. Anything else I should try?
Does this mean I have stressed yeast? Then should I add Yeast Nutrient? 
I also want to use clearing agents on this but wondering if it's ok to add them now. All your advice has been most helpful so appreciate any more help you can offer.


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## Raptor99 (Aug 1, 2021)

I have also had a rotten egg smell (H2S) due to stressed yeast. If it is only slight, it may dissipate when you rack the wine. I would wait until you are sure that fermentation has finished and then rack it with added Kmeta. Then wait a few days and see if the smell is still there.

A few months ago I had a problem with this smell that persisted in the secondary. I added a full does of Kmeta and racked it back and forth three times using my All in One pump. That pulled most of the H2S out of the wine. If you do not have a vacuum pump, you can "splash rack" it several times (e.g. let the wine splash against the side of the carboy while you rack it.)


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## hounddawg (Aug 2, 2021)

yep vacuum pump and more time aging,
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Aug 2, 2021)

At this point, yeast nutrient won't help, as fermentation is either done or very close. I would not wait to add K-meta. If caught early, H2S can be eliminated, but the longer you wait, the harder it is as it produces side effects that must also be treated.


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 2, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> At this point, yeast nutrient won't help, as fermentation is either done or very close. I would not wait to add K-meta. If caught early, H2S can be eliminated, but the longer you wait, the harder it is as it produces side effects that must also be treated.


Thanks. I'll add 1/4 tsp or a hair less today for this 3 gallon batch. If I'm wanting to add chitosan and kieselsol, and maybe more pectic enzyme as I've seen some people add that at this point, is there any thing magical about the timing or order in which they are added? Again, I'll add the K-Meta today regardless. Thanks.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 2, 2021)

It may not matter, but I'd add the K-meta and stir well. Some sources mentioned a double-dose of K-meta to treat H2S, so I wouldn't stint on the K-meta. K-meta works by binding to contaminants in the wine, so it can get used up quickly.

Last fall I had a batch hit by H2S and I used about a 2.5x dose of K-meta. I never detected any hint of excess SO2, although with H2S, it's hard to smell anything else. YUCK!!

Next I'd add the pectic enzyme and let it set 3 days to give it a chance to work. My first time using pectic enzyme post-fermentation was on a cherry wine that had what looked like silver ribbons in the wine. Six hours after adding the pectic, the ribbons were gone, but I'd err on the side of caution and give it at least a few days.

Finally add the kieselsol/chitosan, as the wine should be in a good state to precipitate the sediment.


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 3, 2021)

So I added a double dose of K-meta, then several hours later a double plus dose of pectic enzyme. That was yesterday. Here's how it looks this evening. Progress. Do you suggest adding more or just wait a few days then add the kieselsol/chitosan? Thanks again for your help. What a wealth of knowledge!


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## cmason1957 (Aug 3, 2021)

Wait. Let the pectic enzyme do its job. And by wait, I mean 2-3 weeks. This is going to take patience. It isn't a sprint thing. Maybe stir it up every few days, when you think of it.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 3, 2021)

Agreed. The K-meta and pectic enzyme need time to do their jobs.

What does it smell like? Is the sulfur smell gone?


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 3, 2021)

Still smells like sulfur but I think slightly less. I have a Petite Pearl that smelled bad for several weeks that went away so hopefully same results here. @cmason1957, I'll take your advice as well, and stir every few days or so, and above all, have a glass of wine and chill. Thanks.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 3, 2021)

sulfur or rotten eggs? If it's just sulfur, yeah, relax.


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 3, 2021)

Sorry, I don't know the difference in these two smells. I use the terms interchangeably. Also could use the description, "my older brother when I was growing up."


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## sour_grapes (Aug 4, 2021)

Burnt match (SO2) vs. rotten egg or dog fart (H2S).


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## hounddawg (Aug 4, 2021)

If it were mine I'd airlock it and forget it for at least 2 months or more, you have a long ways to go, from the highest ring up is wine, from highest ring down is, in bad need of a lot more time, 
relax, sip some skitter pee ,it has a fair amount of time to go,, , you really need to let your pectic work, i have apple, peach, banana which all are in carboys from14 to around 18 months, have just started to rack them, i have 3 or 4 types of reds , that are are about 16 to 18 months, and they will age for at least 2 years be for i do any thing with them, seem you got plenty K-Meta in it, in a month or two you can add some more pectic enzyme, to help break up more solids, peach from takes plenty of patience and then even more patience ,,,,
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Aug 4, 2021)

@hounddawg, if it's just sulfur smell, I agree. If it's H2S, letting it set makes it worse, as the H2S produces byproducts that must also be treated. Let's hope it's not H2S.


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 4, 2021)

Update: Smelled the wine again this morning and the "rotten egg" smell (not burnt match), is very faint at this point. My wife couldn't describe the smell other than "off peach." I do believe it's going away. Thanks everyone! I'll try to update as it progresses.


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## hounddawg (Aug 5, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> Update: Smelled the wine again this morning and the "rotten egg" smell (not burnt match), is very faint at this point. My wife couldn't describe the smell other than "off peach." I do believe it's going away. Thanks everyone! I'll try to update as it progresses.


Time and Patience , your best ingreanes,,,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Aug 6, 2021)

hum reckon i might of been sipping when i wrote ingredients,,,,
Dawg

hukd onn fonx wurry wurx fur mi


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 7, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> hum reckon i might of been sipping when i wrote ingredients,,,,
> Dawg
> 
> hukd onn fonx wurry wurx fur mi


It just looked like you were falling asleep dawg.  Been there, done that. The pectic enzyme seems to be clearing well. Here's how it looked tonight.


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## Rembee (Aug 10, 2021)

Ok, it's been 3 days since you last posted. It does look like it is starting to clear nicely. So how does it smell now? You can't keep us in suspense like this lol


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 11, 2021)

Thanks for the "nudge" to update this @Rembee. The rotten egg smell is gone now, replaced by a peach smell that is a little different from straight peach smell--maybe peach wine smell? Not bad, just different. The lees have been settling nicely simply by adding the Pectic Enzyme. I still would like to add other clearing agents at some point (kieselsol and chitosan) but not sure when they should be added.

Two issues: I've got a pretty thick layer of lees now but more to settle? When should I rack? Second question is regarding head space. Once I rack, it looks like I may only have 2-1/2 gallons of wine for a 3 gallon carboy. I have an AIO wine pump "headspace eliminator" but is that too much head space to be effective? I do have 1 and 1/2 gallon jugs I could use if needed but I prefer to keep in one container if possible. Thanks for your help.


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## Rembee (Aug 11, 2021)

I'm glad that the rotten egg smell is gone.
Peach wine takes along time to clear in my experience. Could take as long as 6 to 8 months. Your right at a month old on this wine, right?
You need to rack it now. This will accomplish 2 things. It will get you off all those gross lees and will degas the wine some. Degassing will help a lot in helping the wine to clear. 
As for the head space, yes, it will be to much!
You will need to rack down into smaller vessels like the gallon and half gallon jugs you mentioned. Or you can top up with a like white wine. If you plan on backsweetening, that will make up some of the head space but not enough for what you have there.
I would rack to the gallon and half gallon jugs and use the half gallon jug for futher top ups. You can also use a wine bottle with a universal stopper and airlock once the half gallon gets to low.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 11, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> I still would like to add other clearing agents at some point


I'd do it now and get that part over with. To avoid an extra racking, add the k&c without racking, then in 3 to 7 days (depending on sediment build up) rack. I watch for the sediment to build up, then compact -- the level will drop a bit.

Some kit instructions say to stir sediment back into the wine before adding k&c, as the agents supposedly work better when they have more to work with. This makes sense, as they work by ion attraction.

I'm not in favor of either vacuum or insert gas as headspace solutions. With either, you cannot be 100% sure you've eliminated the air, and you're going to have a large headspace. I'd buy a mild white wine and topup with it, as you can be 100% certain how much air is in the carboy. This will affect the flavor, so bench test the mixture first.

For future reference, plan batches around the carboy size, e.g., for a 3 gallon carboy, plan for at least 3.5 gallons of wine initially (after pressing). While sometimes difficult to do, it makes life easier.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 11, 2021)

@Rembee is right about the degassing. Give the wine a good stir prior to adding the k&c.


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## Rembee (Aug 11, 2021)

I don't think that stirring the gross lees back up into solution is the best course of action IMHO.
There is a big difference between grapes, berries and stone fruit pulp IMO.
You have already had the issue of H2S, the rotten egg smell. I would be more concerned with the amount of peach pulp residuals down in the gross lees that have already settled out. This is still a very young country wine and as I mentioned earlier, will take months to clear due to it being peach.
I really believe that racking off what has already settled, time and patience is your best course of action right now.
Just my humble opinion lol.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 11, 2021)

@Rembee, I accept your opinion on the peach pulp. So ... if it was me, I'd rack, degas, and add the k&c (since @Khristyjeff said that is already the plan). And top with a neutral white.


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## cmason1957 (Aug 11, 2021)

I think if it were me, I would rack and since you have the All-In-One-Wine-Pump the degas step has happened for you. But I would repeat the pectic enzyme treatment, before adding the K&C. Sometimes peach, apple, pear needs extra pectic help.

Oh and peach wine takes a fairly long time (like two years) to come around after bottling, so no hurries here for anything.


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## Rembee (Aug 11, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> I think if it were me, I would rack and since you have the All-In-One-Wine-Pump the degas step has happened for you. But I would repeat the pectic enzyme treatment, before adding the K&C. Sometimes peach, apple, pear needs extra pectic help.
> 
> Oh and peach wine takes a fairly long time (like two years) to come around after bottling, so no hurries here for anything.


I agree, doing another pectic enzyme treatment will not hurt after racking. And good point about the All-in-One-Wine-Pump degassing. 
I'm just wondering why @Khristyjeff is in such a hurry to clear it. After all, it is only a month old. Lol


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 11, 2021)

"I'm just wondering why @Khristyjeff is in such a hurry to clear it. After all, it is only a month old. Lol"

@Rembee Kit habit I guess.  
Can the K&C be added much later if needed or does it lose it's effectiveness at some poin? I guess I'd like to drink this peach at 1 year old if possible instead of 2 years, but I don't mind waiting if that's best. 

btw, so impressed and appreciative of everyone's quick and thoughtful responses.


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## Rembee (Aug 11, 2021)

The K&C can be added at a later point. I would rack, add k-meta and pectic enzyme again and let it sit for 3 months and continue to let it clear on its own. You might be surprised by how it will clear up very nicely.


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## cmason1957 (Aug 11, 2021)

You may never need to add the K&C, it may clear to your satisfaction without it. In many of the wines I do, they never get any force clearing agents added to them. Just time heals all.


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## Rembee (Aug 11, 2021)

I also never use anything to clear my wines but time itself. As the saying goes, 
"No Wine Before its Time"


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## winemaker81 (Aug 11, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> btw, so impressed and appreciative of everyone's quick and thoughtful responses.


Yeah, this is the internet -- acting like rational adults is counter-intuitive, right?

The folks chiming in on this thread have all been around the block a few times, and while we all have our opinions and methods, we all know there more than one right answer. Add "rational adult" into the mix, and we have a real discussion.  

I'm sure you have heard me say this before -- open a bottle 3 months after bottling and record your impressions. Every 3 months after that, do it again. After a year, read your notes from start to finish.

Dale Carnegie's great book, _How to Win Friends and Influence People_, is (IMO) the greatest reference on successful relationships. One of the lessons in the book is:

_I cannot convince you of what I want, but I can convince you of what _you _want._

So ... instead of trying to convince anyone to age their wines, I set the stage so they convince themselves. It's amazing how well this tactic works in business AND within the family.


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## Rembee (Aug 11, 2021)

I never have been a fan of manipulation .
I just offer my 2 cents when asked for it.
Not to influence but to help. It's up to the individual to use discernment and to decide what is most appropriate for their needs.
Just my 2 cents again


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## winemaker81 (Aug 11, 2021)

Rembee said:


> I never have been a fan of manipulation .


Nope, this is not manipulation. Just helping others convince themselves of something you and I know is generally correct.  

All jokes aside, Carnegie's book is a great one. Two fundamental tenets are honesty and looking at things from other POVs. I find it makes life easier and reduces unnecessary strife.


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 16, 2021)

Here's an update on the Peach Wine: I followed your advice and racked to 2, 1-gallon and 1, 1/2 gallon jugs plus a 750ml bottle. Added double dose of pectic enzyme to each. I'll use the 750 to top up as more stuff drops. It looks like it's clearing nicely. Thanks for all your help.


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## Rembee (Aug 16, 2021)

I can see a delicious peach wine in the making there. Glad it worked out for you and glad you updated us.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 21, 2021)

So since everyone else has chimed in... I guess I might as well too.  

I would rack now to get it away from any remaining HS2 related residue. It's not going to hurt to rack now but it might risk some permenant contamination of by the HS2 and other off elements in the gross lees. 

I would also go ahead and add the clearing agents of your choice.

And I would also plan on a L O N G clearing and aging time. 

I've only made about 5 batches of peach wine but EVERYONE without exception has taken at least a year to completely clear - even with K&C and Bentonite.
I even made multiple applications of Bentonite to one batch and it still took 16-17 months to clear enough to satisfy me. 

The good news is that, except for the first batch which was very "light on the palate," every batch has had excellent flavor and aroma. 

Even used 1/4 of a vanilla bean in one 2 gallon batch. That proved to be a bit too much vanilla, but the wine was still excellent.

OK I've tossed enough into discussion - Your wine looks excellent and should turn out well with that HS2 odor gone.

(PS I think someone may have already mentioned it... but Reduless is a good product to solve the HS2 odor/issue)


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## Khristyjeff (Aug 22, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> So since everyone else has chimed in... I guess I might as well too.
> 
> I would rack now to get it away from any remaining HS2 related residue. It's not going to hurt to rack now but it might risk some permenant contamination of by the HS2 and other off elements in the gross lees.
> 
> ...


Hi Scooter68. Are you recommending I rack again now? It's been about a week since I racked to the smaller jugs.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 23, 2021)

Yes. As long as you are decently careful not to introduce too much oxygen into the wine, another racking is not going to hurt it. The fewer lees and debris that could have any remaining HS2 contamination the better for your wine. Just remember the standard rule of thumb is to add K-Meta approximately every 3 months. So racking again not does not mean you need to add K-Meta again unless it's been 3 months since the last K-Meta addition.


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## davidj77 (Aug 24, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Yes. As long as you are decently careful not to introduce too much oxygen into the wine, another racking is not going to hurt it. The fewer lees and debris that could have any remaining HS2 contamination the better for your wine. Just remember the standard rule of thumb is to add K-Meta approximately every 3 months. So racking again not does not mean you need to add K-Meta again unless it's been 3 months since the last K-Meta addition.


I noticed my purse the temp to take peach wine it was taking a long long time to clear and I'm also worried about racking which can introduce oxygen. My first attempt at making wine was with fresh pineapple and it came out very very good there's just a distant taste of pineapple and it wasn't too dry and it certainly wasn't too sweet but I think peaches are much more hard to work with. My next Target is plum wine.


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## mikewatkins727 (Aug 25, 2021)

@davidj77, I admire your enthusiasm. IMO, picking peach and then plum fruit to ferment takes a while to clear. Please remember: PATIENCE, Grasshopper. In the end you will be handsomely rewarded.


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