# Oaking my Red Zin



## scubaman2151 (Jan 18, 2008)

I have a Red Zin that is going to be racked shortly and I wanted to add some additional oak to it. The kit came with 30oz of Copeaux de Chenes and after talking to the local wine supply shop this is what they have.


They sell it by the pound and offer these types:


Hungarian
French
American


I'm assuming that because I started with French I would want to stick with that? Is there like a recommendation on how much oak a Zin should have? Or is it just by taste? I don't want a extremely heavy oak taste but I would like it to be noticeable, so how much oak do you think I should add? Also they sell the oak in cubes and chips, I think the cubes would work better but I dont know.


Scuba



*Edited by: Scubaman2151 *


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## JWMINNESOTA (Jan 18, 2008)

Whats there now isn't noticeable?


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 18, 2008)

Ill let u know about that in a few days.


Scuba


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## JWMINNESOTA (Jan 18, 2008)

Guess I don't fully understand why you want to add more before knowing where the flavor is now on the oak chips that came with it. Its to your personal preference, can always transfer the oak alsoif its not at the level you want now.


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 18, 2008)

I was just being prepared becuase I would go next week to buy the oak if it needed it. So if I would need it like monday I wouldnt wait to post the question untill monday, i post it now, get my answer by sunday so im ready for monday.


Scuba


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## grapeman (Jan 18, 2008)

If you want to be prepared, buy a pack of each type of oak and then as you need them you will have them to add to the wine. They all impart different flavors and qualities. You could start with the French, but it is the most expensive. Here is a bit of information from a French site that is translated to English.


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&amp;sl=fr&amp;u=http://www.itv-midipyrenees.com/publications/fiches-pratiques/copeaux-chene.php&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=translate&amp;resnum=6&amp;ct=result&amp;prev=/search%3Fq%3DCopeaux%2Bde%2BChenes%2B%26hl%3Den


I don't think it would hurt to wait until you taste the wine after you rack it to get the oak if needed. When you use it in the secondary it will be there for plenty of time to get all the oak you need. Let us know how it tastes.


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## Wade E (Jan 18, 2008)

I say taste it then decide. You have plenty of time to decide if you need more oak, dont rush this now. American oak is very strong, French will give you a lot of Vanilla flavors and Hungarian is the most reliable in my opinion, it gives you a good balance of both worlds.


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 18, 2008)

Wade:


If I added Hungarian oak now would that effect the wine in a negitive way becuase I already had the french oak dust in there?


Apple:


Pretty good site, thanks for finding it.


Scuba


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## grapeman (Jan 18, 2008)

Here is a little more info on the differences between American White Oak and French Oak. I would probably lean more towards the American Oak because the Zin is a bold wine with fruitiness. The American Oak with extra Vanilla would help accentuate these.



<H3>[*edit*] Differences in French and American oak</H3>


American oak tends to be more intensely flavored then French oak with more sweet and vanilla overtones due to the American oak having two to four times as many lactones.<SUP =reference id=_ref-Spectator_1>[9]</SUP> Winemakers that prefer American oak typically use them for bold, powerful reds or warm climate Chardonnays. Besides being derived from different species, a major difference between American and French comes from the preparation of the oak. The tighter grain and less watertight nature of French oak encourages coopers to split the wood along the grain rather than saw. French oak is then traditionally aged or "seasoned" for at least two years whereas American coopers will often use a kiln-dry method to season the wood.<SUP =reference id=_ref-Robinson_pg_92_2>[11]</SUP> Long periods of outdoor season has a mellowing effect on the oak that kiln-dry methods have difficulties replicating.<SUP =reference id=_ref-Spectator_2>[9]</SUP> The sawing, rather than splitting, of American oak also enhances the differences between the two styles due to the rupture of the xylem cells in the wood which releases many of the vanillin aromatics and lactones responsible for characteristics like the coconut notes.


This is what is fun. We all have our own personnal prefernces and tastes. You as the winemaker make the final and ultimate choice. Good Luck and have fun with it.


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 23, 2008)

Ok how much oak should I add? Handfull of cubes, couple cubes?


Should I wait for fermentation to be over to toss the oak or can i put it in now?


Scuba


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## grapeman (Jan 23, 2008)

A couple ounces should do it-probably a cupped handful unless you can weigh it or measure it. Dump your bag full in a large measuring cup and see how much you have. Find out how large of a measure you need for the 2 ounces. Of course if you have a 4 ounce bag, use half of it. If you have racked once, add it now.


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 23, 2008)

I got Hungarian oak medium toasted, the bag says to add 3oz per 6 gallons so I will do that. It also says I need to leave the oak in there for a minimum of 8 weeks.


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## grapeman (Jan 23, 2008)

They tell you to do that sometimes, but it is up to your individual tastes. A lot of times medium Hungarian oak will flavor up fast so check it every couple weeks.


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks for all the help guys. I will add the oak in tonight.


Scuba


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 29, 2008)

Here is the oak in my wine. Seems ok.


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## Wade E (Jan 29, 2008)

Looking good there Scuba!


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## scubaman2151 (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks wade. When I first put the oak in, it was all piled up but slowly it has worked it way down into the wine which is a good thing.


Scuba


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## Wade E (Jan 29, 2008)

It does take awhile for the wine to get absorbed into it.


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## scubaman2151 (Mar 29, 2008)

Ok well I think I made a mistake. I racked the red zin a few days ago to get it off the oak, but I forgot to add packets 2, 3, and 4 to the wine. I got rid of all the lees and I am worried about it clearing. Should I just add the packets now, degass and hope for the best?


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## Dean (Mar 29, 2008)

It will be fine. Add them now.


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## uavwmn (Mar 29, 2008)

Scuba, looks good!!!!


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## scubaman2151 (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks! I will add those other packets in this week . I just racked it off the oak after about 9 weeks and I topped it up with Mondavi Red Zin. The Mondavi already had some oak in it soI think it should be a good mix.


Scuba


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## Wade E (Mar 29, 2008)

Scuba, if those fining agents dont do the trick which they probably will, then get yourself some SuperKleer to do it as that product doesnt require the lees to work. SuperKleer is both negatively and positively charged unlike what usually comes in a W.E. kit and works great without having the lees in there.


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## scubaman2151 (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks for the advice Wade.


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## scubaman2151 (Apr 14, 2008)

Ok so I put the 2, 3, and 4 packets into the red zin today, man there was a lot of gas in that wine! I dont know if the oak helped put some gas in there but I stired it up for quite a while with the drill and the bubbles just kept on coming, but I think I got most of it out so im happy. Let it sit for about a month and then bottle .


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## Wade E (Apr 14, 2008)

having the oak in there actually helps you get the gas out.


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## scubaman2151 (Apr 14, 2008)

I was thinking, there probley wasnt any more gas then usual, I had the wine topped up already so all the gas was coming out of a much smaller area then if the wine wasnt topped up. Thats probley why it looked like there was so much gas.


Scuba


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## scubaman2151 (Aug 8, 2008)

Ok so I filtered the Red Zin today and will be bottling tomorrow. I also added 1/4 tsp of k-meta to up the S02 levels.


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## scubaman2151 (Aug 8, 2008)

I have never added any k-meta to this wine before, should I add some more in addition to the 1/4 tsp i just added to make sure my s02 levels are high enough to bottle?


Scuba


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## PeterZ (Aug 11, 2008)

Scuba - no the 1/4 tsp you added should be enough.


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## scubaman2151 (Aug 11, 2008)

Thanks guys. I bottled this batch on Saturday.


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## robie (Jun 7, 2011)

> I like this forum.
> By the way,I am a newer here.



Good! Welcome to the forum. Then why don't you make up a cool name for yourself, join up under that name and tell us about yourself?


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