# Need MLF advice



## WI_Wino (Jul 9, 2014)

I have 14 gallons of a Carmenere/Merlot blend undergoing MLF. The Carmenere was Chilean juice buckets and Merlot was Italian frozen must. I co-fermented in a brute can and used RC212 yeast. Primary ferment went well, I thought I had a slight sulfur issue but after adding more yeast nutrient it went away. I kicked off MLF after it fermented to dry ~March 27. I don't have PH or TA numbers at work, but they were inline with guidelines (PH measured with MW102 meter, TA measured via titration). I used the Wyeast MLB, 4007, 1 smack pack per 7 gallons which I know is underpitching a little. Added Opti Malo per instructions as well. The wine has been kept at a pretty constant 22.3 C/72 F temperature via heating belts and temperature controller. Carboys are also insulated with a moving blanket wrapped around each. I stirred up the wine once, 2 weeks or so after MLB inoculation.

I thought I was seeing MLF progress but am not sure after the chromatography test I ran yesterday. Below are all my results. 

*Experts, what do I do?* Let it ride? Stabilize with k-meta? As I am 3+ months post primary ferment I am starting to get concerned about oxidation. I know air lock activity is not a great indicator but there is still positive pressure coming from each carboy. May be just the wine degassing.


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## ibglowin (Jul 9, 2014)

Looks like your only 50% through at 3 months. I would stick a fork in it and say your done and get your wine protected with some sulfites. not so worried about oxidation so much but other bugs/spoilage organisms.


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## WI_Wino (Jul 9, 2014)

Any value in reinnoculating a different MLB culture?


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## HangenOn (Jul 9, 2014)

If it were my wine, I would not throw in the towel yet and would try re-inoculating. I am not familiar with the MLB you chose but I have had good luck with Enoferm Alpha. I have seen others recommend VP41 when dealing with a stuck MLF.


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## ibglowin (Jul 9, 2014)

If it were Winter maybe yes another shot at MLF. Not during the heat of Summer. One word. Mycoderma.


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## HangenOn (Jul 10, 2014)

My understanding is that Mycoderma requires Oxygen. If the wine is properly topped up, the CO2 from MLF should provide protection. I made the mistake once of calling it quits on a partial MLF and the tartness of the Malic Acid remained ever present. I ended up using the wine for Sangria.


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## cmason1957 (Jul 10, 2014)

I think I would inoculate with a different MLB and let it go. I have heard of it sometimes taking 6 months to complete.


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## WI_Wino (Jul 10, 2014)

Has anyone successfully stored dried MLB after opening the package? I have a deep freezer and vacuum sealer. Morewine's site specifically states it cannot be stored. Scott Labs website is non committal on the issue:

"A bacteria culture will retain some of its viability even after being opened. Once opened, however, the bacteria media will become susceptible to contamination. Exposure to moisture in the air can encourage the bacteria to start growing in the package, thus reducing viability significantly"


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## manvsvine (Jul 11, 2014)

It cant be counted on as viable if you try to store it once it's opened , better to just add it all better a high dose of innoculamt than to little as the op has found out.

I've had nothing but problems with wyeast liquid mlb over the years , it doesn't store or ship well without viability problems .

I'd pitch something else , vp41 is a very strong and fast strain.
Pretty much any of the dry strains more wine sells would be fine though.

You've innoculated once , so you should see it through to completion even if it is with another strain, trying to stop it now has major stability risks , you don't want bubbles in the bottle


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## berrycrush (Jul 11, 2014)

WI_Wino said:


> Has anyone successfully stored dried MLB after opening the package? I have a deep freezer and vacuum sealer. Morewine's site specifically states it cannot be stored. Scott Labs website is non committal on the issue:
> 
> "A bacteria culture will retain some of its viability even after being opened. Once opened, however, the bacteria media will become susceptible to contamination. Exposure to moisture in the air can encourage the bacteria to start growing in the package, thus reducing viability significantly"



I used a leftover opened pack of Enoferm-Alpha stored in freezer for a few months and it still worked well.


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## WI_Wino (Jul 11, 2014)

I'm leaning towards getting the 2.5 gram pack of VP41 and reinoculating each carboy. Then try to save the remaining MLB (vacuum seal and deep freeze immediately after opening) for fall grapes which are quickly approaching.


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## manvsvine (Jul 11, 2014)

Why go against the manufacturers reccomendation? 
You reduce viability and increase the odds of having more mlf problems in the fall.

Why give yourself the heartburn to save ten bucks?

Hoping it will be ok , certainly is not a strategy

If the cost really is an issue , use vinflora in stead of vp41 , it's only 16 dollars , half the price .
It's a bit slower but it works , especially http://morewinemaking.com/products/dry-malolactic-bacteria-viniflora-25.html

if you follow the culture tips in my "fear no mlf" thread

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/fear-no-mlf-43014/


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## sdelli (Jul 13, 2014)

If it was my wine I would move on.... It is not absolutely necessary to put it thru mlf. 4 months is not normal at all! 5 to 8 weeks is normal for this process. My Chilean wine finished last week in 5 1/2 weeks with VP41. Why take the chance of it getting sick from no protection.... MLF is not an aging process! You get in.... You get out... You move on!


Sam


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## manvsvine (Jul 13, 2014)

I think it needs to be considered that this wine has been innoculated .
It seems like it's not catching on but it's still got a culture in it .

It's kind of like a blasting miss fire , it didn't go boom but it might .
So you add more explosive and blow it up insitu.

Or in this case add more mlb.

To abort mlf now , means lysozyme , sterile filtering and a huge wack of so2 . 

Or you go through with mlf .


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## sdelli (Jul 13, 2014)

Hmmm.... I was under the impression from what I have learned about mlf is that the culture does not stop until you stop it. It will continue to work on other characteristics in the wine once the Malic acid is gone... The culture just does not just finish and go away. This then means it does not matter if you neutralize the culture before or after all the Malic acid has been converted to Lactic. 


Sam


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## WI_Wino (Jul 15, 2014)

So life and work is getting in the way. I'm going to rack off the fine lees and give it a good dose of k-meta then let it sit for awhile. Probably add some oak and tannins somewhere along the line as well.


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## manvsvine (Jul 16, 2014)

If you do that you should ad some lysozyme too.

Mlb can come alive again when the free so2 level drops .
Not fully completing mlf after an innoculation means unless you take serious steps , the wine will potentially have instability issues.

I've seen a lot of fizzy wines in competitions from mlf in bottles.


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## berrycrush (Sep 16, 2014)

WI_Wino said:


> Has anyone successfully stored dried MLB after opening the package? I have a deep freezer and vacuum sealer. Morewine's site specifically states it cannot be stored. Scott Labs website is non committal on the issue:
> 
> "A bacteria culture will retain some of its viability even after being opened. Once opened, however, the bacteria media will become susceptible to contamination. Exposure to moisture in the air can encourage the bacteria to start growing in the package, thus reducing viability significantly"



I used the frozen left over the second time, which by now is one year after opening the packet, on my Chilean Malbec, and it still worked. My test last night shows the MLF finished, after 6 weeks from pitching.


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