# New Barrels for Forum Members



## mainshipfred

For those of you that don't know I am a distributor of Zemplen Barrels in Hungary. I'm not a commercial dealer I just set up to help fellow winemakers offset the cost of barrels. My first shipment was 10 barrles. 5 - 25 liter and 5 - 30 liter. The cost for the 25s was $185.50 and $195.50 for the 30s. I can get any size and any toast. My next price break is 20 barrels and don't have the pricing yet. I was planning on placing my next order the beginning of the year for a July, August or September delivery. The price increase is nominal as the size goes up. If you're interested let me know what you want. Again, I'm not in this for profit and if I can get 20 interested people I'm thinking the price for the 25s and 30s would drop $20.00. I'm in the Washington DC area and have no idea the cost of shipping but would send them at cost.


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## Boatboy24

You can probably twist my arm for one next year. If I don't take one of the extras from your shop before then.


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## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> You can probably twist my arm for one next year. If I don't take one of the extras from your shop before then.



They're there if you want one. I'm still debating if I'm going to keep another or 2. It's looking like I could keep them full.


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## Ajmassa

Do you have to get multiple barrels of the same size? Or is just 10/20 barrels total regardless of sizes?
If not then I’d be interested in a 1/4 barrel size range—depending on what volumes they make- but something like 40-55L range. Ideally a 50L. Let me know bud. Thanks


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## Ajmassa

Also- just a thought- but your new Wash St. grape connect seems like a pretty tight knit group. Not sure of how they organize all the customers- but I’d be willing to bet advertising through them— and having barrels available by the time grapes are in would totally move a good amount as well. Grapes and barrels- one stop shop. Then you could start including some overhead for all the work your putting in too! If nothing else- time is money— and gas ain’t free either!


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## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Do you have to get multiple barrels of the same size? Or is just 10/20 barrels total regardless of sizes?
> If not then I’d be interested in a 1/4 barrel size range—depending on what volumes they make- but something like 40-55L range. Ideally a 50L. Let me know bud. Thanks



Size doesn't matter, but that's another topic, LOL! Yes it's only the quantity.


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## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Also- just a thought- but your new Wash St. grape connect seems like a pretty tight knit group. Not sure of how they organize all the customers- but I’d be willing to bet advertising through them— and having barrels available by the time grapes are in would totally move a good amount as well. Grapes and barrels- one stop shop. Then you could start including some overhead for all the work your putting in too! If nothing else- time is money— and gas ain’t free either!



Not to be confused but they are 2 different groups. The Washington Winemakers is a local DC group and sourced from Cali. The Washington State grapes @Boatboy24 Jim and I received are from a local winery. Good point on letting the local group know about the barrels and I could charge a little for my troubles but as far as the forum I'm just happy to help out.


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## FTC Wines

AJ, just my 2 cents. The 50L barrel is a lot bigger than the 40L one. I can “man handle” the 40, the 50 not really. The 50 does not fit in my laundry tub, the 40 does for easy cleaning. The 40 at like 10.6 gals works great for my assortment of 5 and 6 gal carboys too. Roy


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## Ajmassa

FTC Wines said:


> AJ, just my 2 cents. The 50L barrel is a lot bigger than the 40L one. I can “man handle” the 40, the 50 not really. The 50 does not fit in my laundry tub, the 40 does for easy cleaning. The 40 at like 10.6 gals works great for my assortment of 5 and 6 gal carboys too. Roy



Well I’ve got myself a big ass tub in the wineroom! Lol. I’m not worried about that anyway though. At this point I’ve got multiple 20gal+ batches. 54L demi and 50L barrel will work well together. 
And thanks for the info. When you say “manhandle” do you mean full? My Current 30L is on a rack with castors Freeld built. That has been incredibly helpful and I plan to build another rack/dolly for any barrel I would get.


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## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> Not to be confused but they are 2 different groups. The Washington Winemakers is a local DC group and sourced from Cali. The Washington State grapes @Boatboy24 Jim and I received are from a local winery. Good point on letting the local group know about the barrels and I could charge a little for my troubles but as far as the forum I'm just happy to help out.



Yep. Totally combined 2 different things there. But the thought is still there. Just because I was thinking it might be difficult to move 20 barrels otherwise.


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## FTC Wines

Heck AJ, I can barely lift the 50L barrel Empty! All my carboys are on rolling carts under a table, the barrels now 3 of them are on top of the table, figuring I don’t play with them as much & im running out of space. Hence the second level. You can see them in my avatar. Roy


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## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Yep. Totally combined 2 different things there. But the thought is still there. Just because I was thinking it might be difficult to move 20 barrels otherwise.



I didn't plan on getting 20 unless I get interest in 20 barrels. I just used 20 because they told me that would be the next price break although the price for 10 wasn't terrible.


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## baron4406

Would love another 25 and maybe a 30. The get together was alot of fun and we'd love another one


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## CK55

Add me to the list


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## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> Would love another 25 and maybe a 30. The get together was alot of fun and we'd love another one



The Split Rock get together is way more fun. Get to drink and don't have to drive plus we spend a lot more time together. I'll put you down for the two, still need 16 to 18 more.


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## mainshipfred

CK55 said:


> Add me to the list



Shipping might kill you.


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## Dom Lausic

I see @mainshipfred is located in Washington, DC. If anyone in the Toronto, Ontario region (GTA/Niagara), or even further if you're willing to drive, is interested in oak barrels, I have a guy here who sells great French oak barrels for great pricess as well. Us Canadians may have a tough time clearing the border with barrels or lugs of grapes!!  

I have to assume that the toasting level on the most recent 50L barrel i bought is strong, as the flavours in my most recent red blend are strong (noticeable in only a couple of weeks). But they seem to be great quality barrels nonetheless!


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## Dom Lausic

Cross border shipping definitely can hurt the pocket book! Paid $30 to ship a SO2 test kit from MoreWine!


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## CK55

mainshipfred said:


> Shipping might kill you.


Define kill, Lol I'll give you my postal code and you can tell me how bad my wallet would get it.


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## mainshipfred

CK55 said:


> Define kill, Lol I'll give you my postal code and you can tell me how bad my wallet would get it.



I need to get one of each to UPS for the weigh and dimensions. Shipping rate to different locations should be easy after that.


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## CK55

mainshipfred said:


> I need to get one of each to UPS for the weigh and dimensions. Shipping rate to different locations should be easy after that.


Message me when you get everything sorted and I'll give you my postal information and you can get me a quote.


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## toneill

I'm looking for a couple 23L (6 gallon). Still selling these?


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## mainshipfred

toneill said:


> I'm looking for a couple 23L (6 gallon). Still selling these?



I have two 25l and one 30l left. I'm not a vendor I just got this distributorship to help others with cost. I plan on making another order in January if I get enough interest but won't receive them until July or August.


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## toneill

I may be interested in one of each. As I am a kit maker, 6 gallon batches, I would need to determine a process for the over/under. Have you shipped any to anyone else? Curious what the shipping estimate is, I'm in Ohio. Thanks.


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## mainshipfred

toneill said:


> I may be interested in one of each. As I am a kit maker, 6 gallon batches, I would need to determine a process for the over/under. Have you shipped any to anyone else? Curious what the shipping estimate is, I'm in Ohio. Thanks.



I haven't shipped yet. Everyone was relatively local and we had a meet up. What's your zip code? I might be able to figure shipping by that. The 30 might be tough unless you blend but you could use marbles to get the 25 topped up, or blend.

It's asking for a shipping address. PM me if you like.


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## Flextank

Explore Plastic tanks
All wine makers strive to produce a consistent, high quality product. The consistency of performance between Flextank vessels, and the availability of a wide range of oak adjuncts in the form of staves, chips, spirals, blocks etc., allow a winemaker a veritable smorgasbord of opportunity to experiment with flavor in a reproducible environment. Used as a primary fermentor and as a storage/maturation vessel, these tanks provide all barrel functions with more winemaker control, in a hygienic and long-lasting vessel made from food grade polyethylene with characteristics near that of a new barrel in oxygenation environment for wine maturation


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## Ajmassa

Flextank said:


> Explore Plastic tanks
> All wine makers strive to produce a consistent, high quality product. The consistency of performance between Flextank vessels, and the availability of a wide range of oak adjuncts in the form of staves, chips, spirals, blocks etc., allow a winemaker a veritable smorgasbord of opportunity to experiment with flavor in a reproducible environment. Used as a primary fermentor and as a storage/maturation vessel, these tanks provide all barrel functions with more winemaker control, in a hygienic and long-lasting vessel made from food grade polyethylene with characteristics near that of a new barrel in oxygenation environment for wine maturation



Spoken like a true advertisement! Lol. In spite of the very corporate/marketing type nomenclature- you still got my attention. Do you have any links or literature to share (aside from your site. I assume you sell them and will share the link here as well) that details how flextanks can mimic a barrel’s micro-oxygenation benefits? 
If this is common of most flextanks then I somehow missed that bit of info. I suppose I could google it- but I’m kinda interested to hear what you’ve got to share and say about it


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## mainshipfred

I'm always open to suggestion and ideas so I did look into it. It does appear polyethylene is permeable to air but in reading further everything says near or similar but nothing equal to, I can't seem to find an example of the exchange rate. They advertise you will not lose the angel's share which I always thought improved the wine. These tanks are limited in size for the home winemaker with the smaller sizes being 15, 30 and 70 gallons. They make an accessory called skins "They are floated on top of the wine to reduce absorption of oxygen from the tank headspace when the tank is partially filled". They also say you must purge the remaining head space with an inert gas. The skins range in price from ~$50 to ~$80 and are a one time use. I'm not totally knocking them and sure they are a quality product and have many good uses, I'm just not sold yet. Hopefully Flextank can share more knowledge then I can find on the website. FWIW I make like $15.00 a barrel to cover interest since I prepay and don't ask for anything in advance. It's not a profit center I just do it to help others defer costs.


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## Flextank

Well let's see if I can answer your questions to your satisfaction. The tanks we have are about the same as a second use barrel when you are lookin into the how permeable the tanks are. There are certain things which are kept in house as we don't want all our secrets released. Angel's share does not improve the wine it just means you have to top the barrel more often. You can insert inert gas into the tank to displace the oxygen from the bottom valve or from the top cap with an adapter. After you fill the tank you should wait 10 days to see if you need to top the tank off. The tank are transparent so you will see if you have an air bubble. Once the tank is top off you will not have to refill tank. You are correct that the smallest tank we make is a 15 gallon. Most wine makers will have several sizes of plastic tanks and when you have less than 15 gallon you can use your glass carboys. I agree the skin is costly for an one time use and I don't reamend there use because of the cost.


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## mainshipfred

Flextank said:


> Well let's see if I can answer your questions to your satisfaction. The tanks we have are about the same as a second use barrel when you are lookin into the how permeable the tanks are. There are certain things which are kept in house as we don't want all our secrets released. Angel's share does not improve the wine it just means you have to top the barrel more often. You can insert inert gas into the tank to displace the oxygen from the bottom valve or from the top cap with an adapter. After you fill the tank you should wait 10 days to see if you need to top the tank off. The tank are transparent so you will see if you have an air bubble. Once the tank is top off you will not have to refill tank. You are correct that the smallest tank we make is a 15 gallon. Most wine makers will have several sizes of plastic tanks and when you have less than 15 gallon you can use your glass carboys. I agree the skin is costly for an one time use and I don't reamend there use because of the cost.



Thanks, very helpful. There are a lot of folks out there that make 15+ gallon batches. Mine are 8 to 10. Is there a reason you compare it to a second use barrel? I'm having trouble understanding that one.


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## Ajmassa

Flextank said:


> Well let's see if I can answer your questions to your satisfaction. The tanks we have are about the same as a second use barrel when you are lookin into the how permeable the tanks are. There are certain things which are kept in house as we don't want all our secrets released. Angel's share does not improve the wine it just means you have to top the barrel more often. You can insert inert gas into the tank to displace the oxygen from the bottom valve or from the top cap with an adapter. After you fill the tank you should wait 10 days to see if you need to top the tank off. The tank are transparent so you will see if you have an air bubble. Once the tank is top off you will not have to refill tank. You are correct that the smallest tank we make is a 15 gallon. Most wine makers will have several sizes of plastic tanks and when you have less than 15 gallon you can use your glass carboys. I agree the skin is costly for an one time use and I don't reamend there use because of the cost.



So your tanks are different than standard flextanks - which can mimic the micro-ox benefit, but how is this able to happen? From the type of permeable plastics used ? 
So if it’s a special extra permeable plastic how is the level remaining constant? 
And is it necessary to own some sort of inert gas system if using these tanks? 
I’m not understanding how micro-oxygenation is occurring without losing any volume during aging. (Unless you are- but just not topping up and using gas instead)


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## ibglowin

Evaporation and Oxidation are two completely different things. One is a movement (loss) of water (which can happen easily through porous wood staves with joints i.e. a barrel) the other a chemical reaction involving oxygen (which can move in and out of plastic depending on its design and permeability)



Ajmassa5983 said:


> I’m not understanding how micro-oxygenation is occurring without losing any volume during aging. (Unless you are- but just not topping up and using gas instead)


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## Ajmassa

ibglowin said:


> Evaporation and Oxidation are two completely different things. One is a movement (loss) of water (which can happen easily through porous wood staves with joints i.e. a barrel) the other a chemical reaction involving oxygen (which can move in and out of plastic depending on its design and permeability)



Ok. But In terms of how oxygen affects wine in a barrel- they are both caused by the same thing:the wine exposed to o2 in small amounts over time
The porous wood allowing the micro o2 exposure over time- and seeing the vol decrease is also a byproduct from this o2 exposure. Which offers the added benefit of concentration that is unique to barrels
So my question still remains- if a special secret permeable flextank plastic technology exists that allows o2 in for micro oxidation- how is evaporation also not occurring if wine is being exposed to small amounts of o2 over time? Logic would say there would evaporation, no?
I’m asking about the tech here and the claim that it mimics the oxygen benefits of a barrel. And for any literature on these specific tanks. 
I’m intrigued by it. But Saying it is “secret” isn’t exactly selling it. And shilling flextanks on a thread where a member was using his barrel connection to help other members for no profit doesn’t help the cause either.


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## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> And shilling flextanks on a thread where a member was using his barrel connection to help other members for no profit doesn’t help the cause either.



Not only that, doing it without being a sponsor, I believe, is against the rules of this forum. 

I won’t even delve into the roundabout claim / dribble that concentration doesn’t improve wine.


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## stickman

@Ajmassa5983 You know I have no affiliation with Flextank, although I have 4 of their 30gal tanks and have been using them for several years with no problems to report. 

There is no secret to the gas permeability of polyethylene, all of the packaging manufacturers are well aware of how food products react to being stored in various plastics etc. The secret is the same for most manufactured products, and is related to the trial and error and testing/verification of final product specifications. For a polyethylene tank, the specific polyethylene molecular weight, formulation, the thickness, as well as any surface treatments, is critical to the final oxygen permeability. The oxygen transfer rate for a 190l Flextank tank based on a published study (Universidad de Valladolid Avda. de Madrid, 2010) is around 2mg/l per month.

Oxygen can get through the tank wall, but evaporation is limited by the size of the molecules, so the larger size of water and ethanol prevents these materials from passing through the polyethylene at any appreciable rate. Evaporation for a barrel depends on the cellar humidity, as well as the type of wood and stave thickness, but published rates are somewhere around 10% for a 24 month aging period, and that has to have some effect on the final product.

Just my opinion on taste, I think the barrel is still the gold standard for big reds, I've used 30gal barrels in the past, but all of the other positive features of the polyethylene tank, micro-ox, choice of fresh wood, empty storage, ease of handling and cleaning etc., make it a strong contender for me. Don't get me wrong, I still salivate seeing the full size barrels being used by @Johnd @NorCal and others.


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## mainshipfred

stickman said:


> @Ajmassa5983 You know I have no affiliation with Flextank, although I have 4 of their 30gal tanks and have been using them for several years with no problems to report.
> 
> There is no secret to the gas permeability of polyethylene, all of the packaging manufacturers are well aware of how food products react to being stored in various plastics etc. The secret is the same for most manufactured products, and is related to the trial and error and testing/verification of final product specifications. For a polyethylene tank, the specific polyethylene molecular weight, formulation, the thickness, as well as any surface treatments, is critical to the final oxygen permeability. The oxygen transfer rate for a 190l Flextank tank based on a published study (Universidad de Valladolid Avda. de Madrid, 2010) is around 2mg/l per month.
> 
> Oxygen can get through the tank wall, but evaporation is limited by the size of the molecules, so the larger size of water and ethanol prevents these materials from passing through the polyethylene at any appreciable rate. Evaporation for a barrel depends on the cellar humidity, as well as the type of wood and stave thickness, but published rates are somewhere around 10% for a 24 month aging period, and that has to have some effect on the final product.
> 
> Just my opinion on taste, I think the barrel is still the gold standard for big reds, I've used 30gal barrels in the past, but all of the other positive features of the polyethylene tank, micro-ox, choice of fresh wood, empty storage, ease of handling and cleaning etc., make it a strong contender for me. Don't get me wrong, I still salivate seeing the full size barrels being used by @Johnd @NorCal and others.


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## mainshipfred

stickman said:


> @Ajmassa5983 You know I have no affiliation with Flextank, although I have 4 of their 30gal tanks and have been using them for several years with no problems to report.
> 
> There is no secret to the gas permeability of polyethylene, all of the packaging manufacturers are well aware of how food products react to being stored in various plastics etc. The secret is the same for most manufactured products, and is related to the trial and error and testing/verification of final product specifications. For a polyethylene tank, the specific polyethylene molecular weight, formulation, the thickness, as well as any surface treatments, is critical to the final oxygen permeability. The oxygen transfer rate for a 190l Flextank tank based on a published study (Universidad de Valladolid Avda. de Madrid, 2010) is around 2mg/l per month.
> 
> Oxygen can get through the tank wall, but evaporation is limited by the size of the molecules, so the larger size of water and ethanol prevents these materials from passing through the polyethylene at any appreciable rate. Evaporation for a barrel depends on the cellar humidity, as well as the type of wood and stave thickness, but published rates are somewhere around 10% for a 24 month aging period, and that has to have some effect on the final product.
> 
> Just my opinion on taste, I think the barrel is still the gold standard for big reds, I've used 30gal barrels in the past, but all of the other positive features of the polyethylene tank, micro-ox, choice of fresh wood, empty storage, ease of handling and cleaning etc., make it a strong contender for me. Don't get me wrong, I still salivate seeing the full size barrels being used by @Johnd @NorCal and others.



Due to your background I always take your input, especially on matters like this, with open arms. I tried reading a couple studies but they honestly went over my head. So some questions:

You referenced oxygen transfer of the tank to be 2mg/l per month for the specified tank. I know this is a loaded question due to size, wood and other factors but do you have any idea transfer rate of a comparable size barrel?

In your opinion is transfer in and out of the vessel or one or the other? This may go back to the first question and if the transfer rate is sizably different and is an in and out transfer I wonder how this would impact the wine differently.

I agree all the cleaning, handling and storage benefits so my last question is the treatment of the headspace. How do you deal with that? 

Thanks in advance!


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## NorCal

If you look at the Flextank patent, their hdpe composition is unique in that it mimics the micro-oxidation of a second year barrel. It's a good product and has it's place, especially with home winemaking.

I think stating that the concentrating effects of the barrel "does not improve the wine" is misinformed. It is quite logical that if you replace evaporated water with wine, that as a result, you would have a more concentrated wine. Maybe you could argue negligible impact (~10% improvement of flavor concentration), just based on the math, since the essence in the taste of the wine is around 3% of the volume in a bottle of wine. Lets take all the red wine double gold winners & above winners at the SF Chronical Wine Competition and see how many are NOT using barrels. Not sure you would find many if any at all.


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## mainshipfred

This whole discussion has been intriguing. Been trying to dig into it a litle. I found this article about the O2 transfer rate of oak barrels. But not sure exactly what it says. There many different numbers.

Different theories have developed in the past 100 years regarding how oxygen enters wine barrels. In 1931 J. Ribereau-Gayon confirmed that O2 entered the barrel by assessing the formation of SO4-2 after filling a barrel with an aqueous SO2 solution. Ribereau-Gayon found that the oxygen transfer rate (OTR) through the oak wood was limited (2 to 5 ml/L per year) and that the main route of O2 entry occurred where the wine was in contact with the gas in the headspace of the barrel. The total rate at which oxygen enters wine barrels varies with the time of year from 11.08 to 14.77 mg/L per year (based on 1 mg ≈ 1.35 ml at 15º C) in hermetically sealed barrels and from 1.48 to 3.69 mg/L per year in unsealed barrels.9 M. Moutounet wrote: “If we examine the results of the studies of Ribereau-Gayon (1931) on the penetration of oxygen, we observe that in a situation of permanent topping-up at atmospheric pressure, the oxygen transferred is evaluated at between 2 and 5 ml/L per year, whereas in barrels with an airtight bung the oxygen that penetrates is around 15 to 20 ml per year. This data can be explained by the existence of negative pressure inside the barrel, which favors gas entry.”

Read more at: https://www.winesandvines.com/suppliernews/article/161508/Oxygen-Transfer-Rate-in-Oak-Barrels
Copyright © Wines & Vines

https://www.winesandvines.com/suppliernews/article/161508/Oxygen-Transfer-Rate-in-Oak-Barrels


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## stickman

You referenced oxygen transfer of the tank to be 2mg/l per month for the specified tank. I know this is a loaded question due to size, wood and other factors but do you have any idea transfer rate of a comparable size barrel? 

Studies have been done over the years, Vivas 1997, The numbers range between 10mg/L/yr for old barrels, and 20 to 45mg/L/yr for new barrels. There are some discussions regarding how much oxygen is actually going through the wood and between staves, and how much oxygen is contained in new wood. The way Flextanks are made, the oxygen transfer rate is scaled up accordingly, so theoretically a 100gal tank provides the same 2mg/l/yr as does a 60gal tank as does a 30gal tank.

In your opinion is transfer in and out of the vessel or one or the other? This may go back to the first question and if the transfer rate is sizably different and is an in and out transfer I wonder how this would impact the wine differently. 

Plastic is permeable both ways, but the rate and direction depends on molecule size as well as pressure or concentration difference across the wall; you have a constant supply of oxygen on the outside of the tank and near zero concentration in the wine, therefore the oxygen moves into the wine where it is immediately consumed. If the dissolved oxygen content of the wine starts to climb, then it needs to be removed from the tank or barrel, as this indicates that the oxygen is coming in faster than it is being consumed. 

I agree all the cleaning, handling and storage benefits so my last question is the treatment of the headspace. How do you deal with that?

The tank needs to be topped up just like a barrel, I don't leave any headspace.


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## mainshipfred

stickman said:


> You referenced oxygen transfer of the tank to be 2mg/l per month for the specified tank. I know this is a loaded question due to size, wood and other factors but do you have any idea transfer rate of a comparable size barrel?
> 
> Studies have been done over the years, Vivas 1997, The numbers range between 10mg/L/yr for old barrels, and 20 to 45mg/L/yr for new barrels. There are some discussions regarding how much oxygen is actually going through the wood and between staves, and how much oxygen is contained in new wood. The way Flextanks are made, the oxygen transfer rate is scaled up accordingly, so theoretically a 100gal tank provides the same 2mg/l/yr as does a 60gal tank as does a 30gal tank.
> 
> In your opinion is transfer in and out of the vessel or one or the other? This may go back to the first question and if the transfer rate is sizably different and is an in and out transfer I wonder how this would impact the wine differently.
> 
> Plastic is permeable both ways, but the rate and direction depends on molecule size as well as pressure or concentration difference across the wall; you have a constant supply of oxygen on the outside of the tank and near zero concentration in the wine, therefore the oxygen moves into the wine where it is immediately consumed. If the dissolved oxygen content of the wine starts to climb, then it needs to be removed from the tank or barrel, as this indicates that the oxygen is coming in faster than it is being consumed.
> 
> I agree all the cleaning, handling and storage benefits so my last question is the treatment of the headspace. How do you deal with that?
> 
> The tank needs to be topped up just like a barrel, I don't leave any headspace.



Thanks for doing the research and putting it in layman's terms. I just posted another study on oak barrels and dissolved O2 was included in it. It seems like a substantial exchange rate difference between the 2 and I'm wondering (if your posted rate is for a 225 liter barrel) does a small barrel with a greater surface to volume ratio cause the DO rate to climb faster and aside from over oaking require the wine to be removed sooner. Sorry for all the questions.


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## baron4406

Sorry but I do know flextanks have their place but to say that evaporation doesn't improve the wine is a bit of a stretch. I only did one batch of syrah for 3 months and did a side by side taste test with a "control" that didn't go into the barrel. The differance was dramatic. The evaporation rate of my small barrel was pretty extreme, so there was a lot of concentration going on. I'm looking to get 3 or 4 more. A flextank is great if you making large amounts of wine, so they do have a place. However comparing it to a barrel............nope


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## mainshipfred

toneill said:


> I may be interested in one of each. As I am a kit maker, 6 gallon batches, I would need to determine a process for the over/under. Have you shipped any to anyone else? Curious what the shipping estimate is, I'm in Ohio. Thanks.



When to UPS yesterday and ground from Chantilly, VA to Columbus, OH (random zip code) was just under $40.00 for the 30 liter. Not sure how much less the 25 would be.


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## Doug’s wines

Hi Fred,

Just want to say thanks for shipping me the two barrels. Put my Amarone in one today!

Doug


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## mainshipfred

You're welcome, hopefully the hoops stayed tight in transit.


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## Doug’s wines

Yep. Small leak when filled with water that stopped in a few minutes. Filled with amarone now and no leaks. Thanks again for everything.


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## mainshipfred

I've received a few requests for barrels over the last few months but don't yet have the 10 count. I won't be getting any for myself this time since I already have 5. I'm getting pricing for 25, 30, 40 and 50 liter barrels with the 10 count. I was hoping for 20 to get the extra discount but it probably isn't going to happen. Please let me know your interest so I can hopefully place this order sometime in February. The barrels will probably be an August delivery if all holds true from last year.


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## Boatboy24

I'm giving serious thought to one, but I can't figure out what size. What are the prices on the 40 and 50L?


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## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm giving serious thought to one, but I can't figure out what size. What are the prices on the 40 and 50L?


I'll let you know when I get the prices from Zemplen. But the count is going to make a difference.


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## mainshipfred

This years pricing based on a 10 barrel order:
25 liter $180.00
30 liter $185.00
40 liter $195.00
50 liter $205.00

The shipping cost to me is $250.00 so I've added $25.00/barrel. If there are less then 10 barrels the shipping cost per barrel wil increase.


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## Boatboy24

Man, those are good prices.


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## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Man, those are good prices.



Just my way of helping out.


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## Ajmassa

You can count me in for a 50L. The timeline doesn’t matter much at all. 
Pickup however is a little tricky, and heading down to Baltimore isn’t very ideal. Tho I’m confident we can figure something out, even if ya got hold onto it for a bit longer- if that’s ok. 
For example, if one of us ever finds ourselves needing to go to some central meeting point for something unrelated could be an opportunity, or it’s a Saturday and the girls decide we can have a nice day trip in Baltimore to coincide, or even if we exchange up at SplitRock 2020 lol—-some sort of opportunity will present itself. 

50L Hungarian barrel from the Zemplen forest for $205 ??? That’s a hard YES


----------



## mainshipfred

Need 9 more orders AJ, you're the first to commit.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> Need 9 more orders AJ, you're the first to commit.



Lol. Well barreling up” over the next couple years is 100% part of my plan. Only looking at 1/4 barrels for now, and ultimately 1/2 barrels (no smaller frenchies in US). Ideally having a handful of 15gal, and 30gal, of Hungarian and French in rotation. 
So I know I’ll be wanting one of these regardless. I have no intentions of slowing down any time soon!


----------



## baron4406

put me down for a 30 liter buddy


----------



## Chuck E

I would like to be on the list for a 25 L. Shipping to me in the Chicago area. I will give you my UPS number to ship on.


----------



## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> put me down for a 30 liter buddy



Yours may put us up to 3. 7 more to go.


----------



## mainshipfred

Chuck E said:


> I would like to be on the list for a 25 L. Shipping to me in the Chicago area. I will give you my UPS number to ship on.



We're getting there


----------



## hdgypsyman

I am definitely in for one 25L barrel when you are ready to order. My zip code is 56081 (Minnesota). If you get close to your ten count needed to order but come up short, I would consider purchasing a second 25L or 30L.


----------



## mainshipfred

hdgypsyman said:


> I am definitely in for one 25L barrel when you are ready to order. My zip code is 56081 (Minnesota). If you get close to your ten count needed to order but come up short, I would consider purchasing a second 25L or 30L.



Way to take one for the team. 2 would make 6 so 4 more to go. I'll more than likely get one so looks like 3 more.


----------



## baron4406

Fred, we gonna do another barrel meet up?


----------



## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> Fred, we gonna do another barrel meet up?



We still need 3 more commitments before I place the order. We also need 4 more room commitments before I can get the group rate for Split Rock. You and Carrine really need to consider going to it. It's way more fun than the barrel meet up and so close to you.


----------



## baron4406

Ok great we are planning to go!


----------



## Boatboy24

I'm really thinking hard about a 40L - maybe a 50, but more likely 40. Someone talk me out of it.


----------



## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm really thinking hard about a 40L - maybe a 50, but more likely 40. Someone talk me out of it.



Never! And get the 50L so you need to get more grapes!

And then we can get a group together on a 1/2 ton and get a good deal on some quality stuff this fall!

Just puttin it out there [emoji6]


----------



## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> Ok great we are planning to go!



Remember it's a 2 night minimum during the festival. If you're commited you make 7 and we still need 3 more.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm really thinking hard about a 40L - maybe a 50, but more likely 40. Someone talk me out of it.



Just an FYI you're already down for a 40 and I'm throwing in a rolling cart. I'll be twisting one arm in the opposite direction while AJ's twisting the other.


----------



## mainshipfred

Thanks to @hdgypsyman offering to take 2 we are now up to 9. I'm going to place the order tomorrow and just add another 25 or 30 to it. Remember it's a minimum of 10 so if anyone is still interested I can always add to it. Thanks everyone! BTW if you want a toast other then medium let me know. Mine is going to be a 25 light toast which I'm going to neutralize and use only for whites.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Just an FYI you're already down for a 40 and I'm throwing in a rolling cart. I'll be twisting one arm in the opposite direction while AJ's twisting the other.



OK, let's go with a 40, medium toast - I smell a double batch of Zin in my future. You need moolah now or at ship time?


----------



## mainshipfred

Hooray!! Just wait until the second half is due which is just prior to shipping.


----------



## baron4406

Need one more? My buddy wants a 6.6 gallon. This is firm he grows grapes and has been wanting one for awhile


----------



## baron4406

BTW he wants it for whites too Fred. Wow are we full up now? Split Rock here we come........


----------



## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> BTW he wants it for whites too Fred. Wow are we full up now? Split Rock here we come........


 Yep, full up and on the way to 20 for the second stage discount. LOL! Is your buddy interested in Split Rock?


----------



## baron4406

I'll ask him tomorrow Fred. We might be doing a day trip not sure we can swing two nights since we have alot of cats/dogs


----------



## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> I'll ask him tomorrow Fred. We might be doing a day trip not sure we can swing two nights since we have alot of cats/dogs



The day trip taken most of the fun out of it. The best time is the evening tastings.


----------



## mainshipfred

The order is placed will have more details once it's recorded by Zemplen. Here is what I have so far please let me know if it is correct.
@Ajmassa5983 50 l, @baron4406 25 and 30 l, @Chuck E 25l, @hdgypsyman 25 and 30 l, @Boatboy24 40 l, @mainshipfred 25 l. The others are from a different group. @hdgypsyman there may be another from the other group which would make 10 without your second barrel. If you were just going to get one which would it be. There's not problem with keeping the 2. I can still add to the order if anyone else wants one.


----------



## Boatboy24

Thanks Fred! What are we looking at - August delivery?


----------



## mainshipfred

If everything holds true from last year.


----------



## hdgypsyman

One 25l and one 30l will work fine for me. Just let me know when, how, and how much to pay!


----------



## mainshipfred

hdgypsyman said:


> One 25l and one 30l will work fine for me. Just let me know when, how, and how much to pay!



It will be $365.00 plus the shipping at the time. If you have a recommendation for a better shipping price let me know. $40.00 each seems to be the best I can get. Also no payment due until I get my second half invoice which comes just prior to shipping. Thanks again for offering to get 2.


----------



## Rmarr

@mainshipfred just came across this post. I’m in Oregon 97140 would be happy to have a 40l if not to late. Not sure what shipping adds so could consider a second depending on cost. Let me know if its to late.


----------



## Flextank

Ever thought of using Flextank and oak staves? Seams a way to get the Oak mellow and taste. More control and last longer?


----------



## Ajmassa

Flextank said:


> Ever thought of using Flextank and oak staves? Seams a way to get the Oak mellow and taste. More control and last longer?



Definitely a preferred option by many. But for the same reason I’d choose to buy whole grapes rather than pre-crushed must—barrels are just sexier! (And also available in smaller volumes)

Plus you’ve got the aspect of ‘concentration by evaporation’ which can’t be mimicked I don’t think. I view flextanks as options for the big boys making serious volume


----------



## mainshipfred

Rmarr said:


> @mainshipfred just came across this post. I’m in Oregon 97140 would be happy to have a 40l if not to late. Not sure what shipping adds so could consider a second depending on cost. Let me know if its to late.



Definately not too late, let me see what I can do on the shipping. I don't have a 40 liter so I don't have the dimension or the weight. I'll go online and see if I can get something generic to plug into the UPS site.


----------



## Flextank

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Definitely a preferred option by many. But for the same reason I’d choose to buy whole grapes rather than pre-crushed must—barrels are just sexier! (And also available in smaller volumes)
> 
> Plus you’ve got the aspect of ‘concentration by evaporation’ which can’t be mimicked I don’t think. I view flextanks as options for the big boys making serious volume


flextank makes tanks from 15 gallons to 500 gallons these are all available.


----------



## Flextank

Flextank makes 15, Gallon tank as well as 30 gallons, 50 gallons, 70 gallons are some of the small tanks they make.


----------



## sour_grapes

Flextank said:


> Flextank makes 15, Gallon tank as well as 30 gallons, 50 gallons, 70 gallons are some of the small tanks they make.



It seems to me that it would be more appropriate for you to start your own thread to shill your products, instead of bogarting on a thread where people are making plans for a group purchase of a different product.


----------



## baron4406

Again the drawback of a Flextank is the lack of evaporation compared to a barrel. As a home winemaker its tough to get top quality grapes so evaporation concentrates the flavor and helps the home winemaker. Flextanks are mainly for the convenience not quality over a barrel. Great for big time winemakers and professionals, but unneeded for a home winemakers who views the "inconvenience" of the barrel as a welcome struggle. Also not to be rude but this thread is for a group buy of quality barrels among friends, not for competing products.


----------



## Flextank

baron4406 said:


> Again the drawback of a Flextank is the lack of evaporation compared to a barrel. As a home winemaker its tough to get top quality grapes so evaporation concentrates the flavor and helps the home winemaker. Flextanks are mainly for the convenience not quality over a barrel. Great for big time winemakers and professionals, but unneeded for a home winemakers who views the "inconvenience" of the barrel as a welcome struggle. Also not to be rude but this thread is for a group buy of quality barrels among friends, not for competing products.


Sorry did not realize I was only on your thread and for having other ideas lesson learned.


----------



## Flextank

sour_grapes said:


> It seems to me that it would be more appropriate for you to start your own thread to shill your products, instead of bogarting on a thread where people are making plans for a group purchase of a different product.


Sorry for using the valued space for expressing other ideas lesson learned.


----------



## Ajmassa

sour_grapes said:


> It seems to me that it would be more appropriate for you to start your own thread to shill your products, instead of bogarting on a thread where people are making plans for a group purchase of a different product.



.... again.


----------



## pillswoj

Flextank said:


> Sorry for using the valued space for expressing other ideas lesson learned.



I would think a successful company like Flextank would pony up and become a sponsor to support this community? If that is outside of your budget then so be it but your gorilla marketing tactics are annoying as [email protected] I for one will not consider your products.


----------



## Ajmassa

Flextank said:


> Sorry for using the valued space for expressing other ideas lesson learned.




Are you planning to order up some discounted flextanks sold for cost and then use the pickup as an excuse to meetup for dinner at a crab shack while sharing/drinking/discussing our homemade wines?

Have you even actually read this thread?


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Are you planning to order up some discounted flextanks sold for cost and then use the pickup as an excuse to meetup for dinner at a crab shack while sharing/drinking/discussing our homemade wines?
> 
> Have you even actually read this thread?



LOL! I have and thought I would just leave it alone since there are so many supporters out there. It's almost the same as the guy promoting Xoakers. You have to give them credit though in the way they are toeing the line on their marketing. Just an FYI it's possible I may have a lead on some Frenchies but way too early to discuss it and it may not even pan out. As far as the meet up for the Flextanks goes I'm waiting for the thread to start to hoard in.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> LOL! I have and thought I would just leave it alone since there are so many supporters out there. It's almost the same as the guy promoting Xoakers. You have to give them credit though in the way they are toeing the line on their marketing. Just an FYI it's possible I may have a lead on some Frenchies but way too early to discuss it and it may not even pan out. As far as the meet up for the Flextanks goes I'm waiting for the thread to start to hoard in.



I respect the hustle. I do. And it really would be a non issue in almost any active discussion about barrels/vessels. 

And just to let @Flextank know- there is 100% an interest in these tanks, the plastics technology, the cost, etc etc. This a big forum with tons of options to get FT convo/interest goin if he doesn’t wanna start a new thread. And would be much better served there rather than to crowbar it in here.....again.

Side note- I laughed out reading that @pillswoj is now boycotting *flextank’s flextanks


----------



## sour_grapes

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Side note- I laughed out reading that @pillswoj is now boycotting flextanks



I think @pillswoj meant "guerrilla" marketing, but, hmmm, this attempt was kinda clumsy and ham-handed, so maybe Jeff really DID mean "gorilla marketing"!


----------



## Bill McNab

Hello,
Hopefully this plea gets to mainshipfred who I believe has a contact for new Hungarian Oak Barrels.
Hopefully you are still looking to buy in bulk numbers.
If so I am looking for a 100 L Zemplen Oak Barrel.
How much to purchase and ship to 38555.
Thank you so much.
Bill McNab


----------



## mainshipfred

Bill McNab said:


> Hello,
> Hopefully this plea gets to mainshipfred who I believe has a contact for new Hungarian Oak Barrels.
> Hopefully you are still looking to buy in bulk numbers.
> If so I am looking for a 100 L Zemplen Oak Barrel.
> How much to purchase and ship to 38555.
> Thank you so much.
> Bill McNab



Bill, it might be too late. The barrels are shipping the end of the month. I'll call and check if I can add one.


----------



## LouisCKpasteur

Mainshipfred, I saw your post above and don't want to add to the last minute scramble - if any one leaves you in the lurch for one of the 25L I'd be interested.


----------



## Bill McNab

Thank you Fred, much appreciated.
Bill.


----------



## Bill McNab

Hello,
Has anyone bought a French Oak Bsrrel from oakbarrelsforsale.com. ?
mainshipfred has been good enough to try to get a barrel added to a. pending shipment , so I am hoping for that to happen.
In the meantime I asked oakbarrelsforsale.com for a price for a Ffench 100 L.
They came back with $248 including shipping and another price for 5 barrels $555 including shipping, very low pricing to say the least.
Has anyone bought one, very interested how the experience worked out for them, many thanks in advance.
Still hoping for mainshipfred to help me out.
Bill.


----------



## DIYer

Bill McNab said:


> Hello,
> Has anyone bought a French Oak Bsrrel from oakbarrelsforsale.com. ?
> mainshipfred has been good enough to try to get a barrel added to a. pending shipment , so I am hoping for that to happen.
> In the meantime I asked oakbarrelsforsale.com for a price for a Ffench 100 L.
> They came back with $248 including shipping and another price for 5 barrels $555 including shipping, very low pricing to say the least.
> Has anyone bought one, very interested how the experience worked out for them, many thanks in advance.
> Still hoping for mainshipfred to help me out.
> Bill.


A google search brought up: this: https://www.columbusbourbon.com/2018/12/bourbon-scam-alert-oak-wood-barrel.html

The comment underneath the article says this group has several websites, including oakbarrelsforsale.com. Other than this, I found no reviews.


----------



## Bill McNab

Thank you, old story, to good to be true.
Others beware .
Thank you DIYer


----------



## Bill McNab

Hello mainshipfred,
Sorry to pressure you Fred,
Did you have any luck adding a 100 L Zemplen for me to you're already planned upcoming shipment.?
All efforts are appreciated Fred.
Thank you.
Bill McNab


----------



## mainshipfred

Bill McNab said:


> Hello mainshipfred,
> Sorry to pressure you Fred,
> Did you have any luck adding a 100 L Zemplen for me to you're already planned upcoming shipment.?
> All efforts are appreciated Fred.
> Thank you.
> Bill McNab



The initial response was it's probably too late but not a definite yet. I can't seem to find my price list but I think the cost without shipping was $280.00. I'd be a little careful about that other company I heard bad things. The link below is from another thread that a member has ordered a french barrel from. You may want to see what he thinks when he received it.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/barrel-or-stainless-steel-tank.64914/page-2#post-729094


----------



## Bill McNab

Thank you Fred,
Was the $280 price for a 100 L barrel, if so, that's a good price plus shipping.
A few weeks ago I contacted Vadai , their price for a 100 L Hungarian oak barrel was $332 plus $140 shipping to 38555 Tennessee.
A little much for shipping I thought.
If you dont mind I will wait a bit to see if you have any luck with Zemplen for me.
Thanks so much.


----------



## mainshipfred

Bill McNab said:


> Thank you Fred,
> Was the $280 price for a 100 L barrel, if so, that's a good price plus shipping.
> A few weeks ago I contacted Vadai , their price for a 100 L Hungarian oak barrel was $332 plus $140 shipping to 38555 Tennessee.
> A little much for shipping I thought.
> If you dont mind I will wait a bit to see if you have any luck with Zemplen for me.
> Thanks so much.



I have no idea how much the shipping would be but a 30 liter was around $40.00 to Georgia from Virginia. FYI, not all but Zemplen subcontracts to make some of Vadai's barrels. Give me a few more days for them to get back to me. They are normally very responsive but since I haven't heard I think the chances are looking slim.


----------



## Bill McNab

Thank you Sir.


----------



## zadvocate

Bill McNab said:


> Hello,
> Has anyone bought a French Oak Bsrrel from oakbarrelsforsale.com. ?
> mainshipfred has been good enough to try to get a barrel added to a. pending shipment , so I am hoping for that to happen.
> In the meantime I asked oakbarrelsforsale.com for a price for a Ffench 100 L.
> They came back with $248 including shipping and another price for 5 barrels $555 including shipping, very low pricing to say the least.
> Has anyone bought one, very interested how the experience worked out for them, many thanks in advance.
> Still hoping for mainshipfred to help me out.
> Bill.



I am waiting for my 28l French barrel from artisanbarrels.com. They have good ratings from the Better Business Bureau. I expect to receive mine sometime next week. They also sell two wineries apparently. They have been very responsive on Phone and email.


----------



## Spudwrench12

I live in the saint louis,mo area and I drove out to Hawk Point , MO where oakbarrelsforsale.com is supposed to have a warehouse. NO WAREHOUSE IN HAWK POINT , MO !! The 300 block of main is a Discount tire warehouse .Hawk Point is 4 blocks x 6 blocks . Just a heads up people .


----------



## ibglowin

The whois lookup for the website is completely blank also. Not a good sign either. As a general rule you should never do business with any website that does not list a phone number to contact them directly on their website (they do not) Only way to contact them is via a web form.


----------



## Bill McNab

I sensed it too good to be true.
No contact info other than e mail plus, Xmas itself does not give you 5 -100 L French Oak Barrels , including shipping for $550.
They could have caught more fish with more realistic bait.
Some fish smell worse than others.


----------



## Bill McNab

Hello mainshipfred.
Sorry yo say I am assuming no 30 L Hungarisn oak Barrel in the 20 lot you arranged Fred.
I went ahead and ordered from another source since I have red from last year piling up and 25 cares of CA grapes coming this fall.
Thank you Fred for your efforts.
Bill


----------



## mainshipfred

I forgot to respond but they told me when they make small quantities of barrels they have to set up the entire line for those few barrels and it's not worth the time so correct I can't add to the order. The interest seems to be growing though. My first order 6 barrels and this year it's up to 14. They are really nice barrels and I think if the word of mouth keeps growing so will the count and thus reduce the price. Good luck with yours, did you get it from Vadia, they're nice barrels as well?


----------



## Bill McNab

Hi Fred,
No problem. I make a trip to Canada every fall, we have family there. I used to live in Canada and sourced grapes from a farmer in the Niagara Falls area, nice grape growing area. My supplier also sells supplies and Zemplen barrels. The nice thing is, I will pay in Canadisn funds, so it worked out ok. I was hoping to get one sooner, however, this trip will be , pick up Canadian white juice and the barrel and CA grapes on my way back through Detroit.
The drawback is it's not until October, however, no biggie.
Thanks again Fred.


----------



## mainshipfred

Prior to getting my dealership Zemplen recommended getting the barrels from the Canada dealer but shipping from Canada didn't work out. I was able to get it because Harford where I originally got them retail stopped carrying them. You are going to find they are the same barrels and you should be very happy. FYI, the company was recently taken over by their daughter and the name changed to KK International so instead of having ZB on the barrel it might be KK but the same cooperage.


----------



## Bill McNab

Interesting Fred. I will let you know how the barrel behaves.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Prior to getting my dealership Zemplen recommended getting the barrels from the Canada dealer but shipping from Canada didn't work out. I was able to get it because Harford where I originally got them retail stopped carrying them. You are going to find they are the same barrels and you should be very happy. FYI, the company was recently taken over by their daughter and the name changed to KK International so instead of having ZB on the barrel it might be KK but the same cooperage.



@NorCal might like some of those barrels then.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> @NorCal might like some of those barrels then.



You're right he just may.


----------



## mainshipfred

I just got confirmation the barrels will arrive to me mid September which is about a month later than last year. So I want to make sure everyone is still on board. This is what I have but if your interest changed please let me know.
@Bill McNab 120l
@Ajmassa5983 50l
@Boatboy24 40l 
@Rmarr 40l
@baron4406 25 and 30l
@hdgypsyman 25 and 30l already confirmed and paid
@mainshipfred 25 and 30l 
@Chuck E 25l
@LouisCKpasteur 25l
Then there are 2 from Washington Winemakers


----------



## Boatboy24

No change for me!


----------



## Bill McNab

Bill McNab here.
I understood that my barrel did not make the shipment Fred.
I am sure this is a typo 120 L for me.
I have ordered a barrel from another source .
Please confirm it's a typo.
Thanks.
Bill.


----------



## mainshipfred

When I look back I never confirmed I was able to add it. No problem, if anyone else is interested the 120l barrel is $295.00.


----------



## baron4406

Yup still interested Fred, We meeting at the same place this year?


----------



## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> Yup still interested Fred, We meeting at the same place this year?



I believe you are the only one getting a barrel from last years group. We can make some kind of arrangement though. Most of them are going UPS.


----------



## baron4406

ok let me know we might be up for a road trip. I imagine shipping would be rather steep


----------



## mainshipfred

baron4406 said:


> ok let me know we might be up for a road trip. I imagine shipping would be rather steep



It would be especially for 2 of them. I live in a very popular wine region so a road trip wouldn't be disappointing.


----------



## Chuck E

I am still in!



mainshipfred said:


> I just got confirmation the barrels will arrive to me mid September which is about a month later than last year. So I want to make sure everyone is still on board. This is what I have but if your interest changed please let me know.
> 
> @Chuck E 25l


----------



## Bill McNab

Fred,
For future reference, where do you live. ?
I may order a barrel in the future.
Bill.


----------



## mainshipfred

Bill McNab said:


> Fred,
> For future reference, where do you live. ?
> I may order a barrel in the future.
> Bill.



Centreville VA


----------



## mainshipfred

They just arrived. Will confirm the UPS pricing tomorrow. Please if you haven't already PM me your address if still interested


----------



## hdgypsyman

mainshipfred said:


> They just arrived. Will confirm the UPS pricing tomorrow. Please if you haven't already PM me your address if still interested


----------



## hdgypsyman

UPS just delivered my two barrels and I am very pleased with them
Thank you Fred for making this possible.


----------



## Rmarr

Fred, thanks for lining this all up and helping out! My barrel arrived today, shipped across the US, to Oregon and it looks and smells great! Can’t wait to get it in action! Appreciate all you did!
Rob


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> They just arrived. Will confirm the UPS pricing tomorrow. Please if you haven't already PM me your address if still interested



Road trip!


----------



## sour_grapes

AJ resurfaces!! (@Ajmassa5983 ) Welcome back, amico!


----------



## Ajmassa

sour_grapes said:


> AJ resurfaces!! (@Ajmassa5983 ) Welcome back, amico!


Thank ya kindly. Go birds!


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Road trip!



Any time, bring the family along this time.


----------



## BSBrew

Hello -- 
If I may ask, how much is UPS shipping cost for those barrels? I am in TX. Trying not to get too excited about it yet.


----------



## Rmarr

Niaz Habib said:


> Hello --
> If I may ask, how much is UPS shipping cost for those barrels? I am in TX. Trying not to get too excited about it yet.


Mine was 85$ to Oregon for the 40l.


----------



## mainshipfred

Niaz Habib said:


> Hello --
> If I may ask, how much is UPS shipping cost for those barrels? I am in TX. Trying not to get too excited about it yet.



Need to at least know the zip code and barrel size. My zip code is 20151 and use the following sizes and weights. You can go on Fedex or UPS to get the price.
25 liter 16" x 16" x 16" x 25 lbs
30 liter 16" x 16" x 18" x 26 lbs
40 liter 18" x 18" x 19" x 34 lbs


----------



## jsbeckton

Are all of the barrels you have already spoken for? I’m considering getting a 25L medium toast barrel this year or next.


----------



## mainshipfred

jsbeckton said:


> Are all of the barrels you have already spoken for? I’m considering getting a 25L medium toast barrel this year or next.



Unfortunately they are. I only order the barrels that are requested. I really should order additional barrels but the couple dollars I make on these is not worth the trouble. I start taking orders in February or March for a September delivery if you are still interested.


----------



## FunkedOut

mainshipfred said:


> Unfortunately they are. I only order the barrels that are requested. I really should order additional barrels but the couple dollars I make on these is not worth the trouble. I start taking orders in February or March for a September delivery if you are still interested.


That’s good news. 
I was hoping this was an annual event. 
I’ll keep and eye on the forum come February and March. 
Any better way to stay informed?


----------



## mainshipfred

FunkedOut said:


> That’s good news.
> I was hoping this was an annual event.
> I’ll keep and eye on the forum come February and March.
> Any better way to stay informed?



The thread is probably the best way.


----------



## Boatboy24

Met up w/ Fred to pick my barrel up today and drop of some BM4X4 (BTW: it was 2 years in the fridge and it started up within minutes). Barrel looks great and I can't wait to get some wine into it. I'll post some pics soon.


----------



## mainshipfred

LouisCKpasteur said:


> Mainshipfred, I saw your post above and don't want to add to the last minute scramble - if any one leaves you in the lurch for one of the 25L I'd be interested.



I do have an extra 25 liter if you are still interested. The cost is $180.00 plus shipping. If not I'll just put it back out there.


----------



## Donz

Wonder if you can ship that barrel to Montreal Canada on my Fedex account?...


----------



## mainshipfred

Donz said:


> Wonder if you can ship that barrel to Montreal Canada on my Fedex account?...



I can, did you change your name on the site? There is a company in Canada that sells the same barrels a I do. I can find out who it is if you like. I have no clue what the shipping would be from here. If you wanted to check my zip code is 20151 and the barrel is 15.25 x 15.25 x 16 and weight 25 lbs.


----------



## mainshipfred

I found the Canadian company. They are in Ontario.

http://www.watsons.ca/suppliesorderform.html


----------



## Donz

Thank you! I would probably be better off getting directly in Canada to avoid any customs/duties. I'll check out the company in Ontario.


----------



## mainshipfred

Donz said:


> Thank you! I would probably be better off getting directly in Canada to avoid any customs/duties. I'll check out the company in Ontario.



If you don't mind could you let me know what they charge. They are no competition since I just get the barrels for our members but it would be nice to know. Plus while I only get one pallet they get 4 or more so their cost is probably less than mine.


----------



## Donz

Here is the pricelist. Keep in mind this is Canadian dollars so 30% on the USD http://www.watsons.ca/suppliesorderform.html

They actually have French Oak as well that looks really interesting. Anyone heard of Tonnellarie Berthomieu? The French oak is significantly more expensive than the Hungarian however...


----------



## Donz

​


----------



## mainshipfred

Donz said:


> Here is the pricelist. Keep in mind this is Canadian dollars so 30% on the USD http://www.watsons.ca/suppliesorderform.html
> 
> They actually have French Oak as well that looks really interesting. Anyone heard of Tonnellarie Berthomieu? The French oak is significantly more expensive than the Hungarian however...



Thanks, they must get a much greater discount since the prices are closer than I thought they would be. BTW the current exchange rate according to Google is .75.


----------



## jsbeckton

mainshipfred said:


> I do have an extra 25 liter if you are still interested. The cost is $180.00 plus shipping. If not I'll just put it back out there.



Let me know if it ends up being up for grabs. About to purchase a medium toast Hungarian barrel from Vadai within the next few weeks.


----------



## mainshipfred

jsbeckton said:


> Let me know if it ends up being up for grabs. About to purchase a medium toast Hungarian barrel from Vadai within the next few weeks.



Let me give @LouisCKpasteur another day or 2 to respond. Otherwise it's yours.


----------



## Ajmassa

Donz said:


> Here is the pricelist. Keep in mind this is Canadian dollars so 30% on the USD http://www.watsons.ca/suppliesorderform.html
> 
> They actually have French Oak as well that looks really interesting. Anyone heard of Tonnellarie Berthomieu? The French oak is significantly more expensive than the Hungarian however...




Wow I’m surprised to see the Frenchie options there. I wanted a 1/4 barrel & had scoured the Internet. But really only full & 1/2 barrels were available to US. I found just 1 company carrying 1/4 size. A 55L Saint Martin from Cali. (Also found plenty of scam sites. Careful out there. The online barrel world is cutthroat) 
But this joint has 55L as well as 30L frenchies. Never heard of em but certainly will check em out.


----------



## Donz

I called and they are 100% legit. I might go for a 55L French oak barrel.

I already have 1 55L French from Allary and it's really nice. Would like to try something different.


----------



## mainshipfred

Donz said:


> I called and they are 100% legit. I might go for a 55L French oak barrel.
> 
> I already have 1 55L French from Allary and it's really nice. Would like to try something different.



I know for a fact they are legit. I think AJ was referring to some of the other online barrel companies and there are a lot of scammers out there.


----------



## Ajmassa

Donz said:


> I called and they are 100% legit. I might go for a 55L French oak barrel.
> 
> I already have 1 55L French from Allary and it's really nice. Would like to try something different.



Nice. I’ll have to look up Allary and check them out. Venturing into the barrel world gotta plan years in advance!
I’m filling my 1st and only barrel back up tonight which I think may now be neutral. A 30L I got from Fred. Been filled about a year now. And also have a 50L from Fred on deck. Trying to plan it so the 1st run is done just as ‘20 spring wine can go in for long 8month+ stretch. 
Utilizing barrels just adds a whole new fun element to the mix. I love it.


----------



## jsbeckton

mainshipfred said:


> Let me give @LouisCKpasteur another day or 2 to respond. Otherwise it's yours.



Fair enough, although I don’t think anyone has heard from him since 1895 [emoji41]


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> I know for a fact they are legit. I think AJ was referring to some of the other online barrel companies and there are a lot of scammers out there.



Oh. Yeah. My bad. Thanks Fred. I didn’t mean to insinuate this company was like that. Was 2 separate thoughts. 
But it definitely is crazy out there. For whatever reason scammers gravitate to the wine barrel market. So if ya find high quality oak in hard to find sizes at unbeatable prices- chances are they don’t exist or as @ibglowin put it before- could be coming from the glowing hills of the Chernobyl forest. [emoji16]


----------



## mainshipfred

jsbeckton said:


> Fair enough, although I don’t think anyone has heard from him since 1895 [emoji41]



Did you have to look that up or was it just common knowledge to you?


----------



## jsbeckton

mainshipfred said:


> Did you have to look that up or was it just common knowledge to you?



I cheated


----------



## Donz

Ajmassa said:


> Nice. I’ll have to look up Allary and check them out. Venturing into the barrel world gotta plan years in advance!
> I’m filling my 1st and only barrel back up tonight which I think may now be neutral. A 30L I got from Fred. Been filled about a year now. And also have a 50L from Fred on deck. Trying to plan it so the 1st run is done just as ‘20 spring wine can go in for long 8month+ stretch.
> Utilizing barrels just adds a whole new fun element to the mix. I love it.



Just placed an order for a 55L French Oak Tonnellarie Berthomieu barrel. I should have it on Monday. Hope it will be nice, I'll post some pics


----------



## jsbeckton

mainshipfred said:


> Let me give @LouisCKpasteur another day or 2 to respond. Otherwise it's yours.



Have you heard anything back? Assuming it’s medium toast I’m ready to buy now if it’s available.


----------



## mainshipfred

jsbeckton said:


> Have you heard anything back? Assuming it’s medium toast I’m ready to buy now if it’s available.



I have not so it's yours and it is medium. PM me your address so I can get a shipping cost.


----------



## jsbeckton

mainshipfred said:


> I have not so it's yours and it is medium. PM me your address so I can get a shipping cost.



Great, PM sent. Thanks!


----------



## Donz

New 55L Tonnellarie Berthomieu French barrel arrived today and looks beauty! Thanks for the recommendation on Watsons Fred.


----------



## mainshipfred

Donz said:


> New 55L Tonnellarie Berthomieu French barrel arrived today and looks beauty! Thanks for the recommendation on Watsons Fred.
> 
> View attachment 57021



Good looking barrel.


----------



## Donz

Easiest barrel stand ever. Upside down pallet. Can’t wait to fill this guy with some old vine Zin.


----------



## jsbeckton

So I did a hot soak on my barrel about 3 days ago and it seemed to hold overnight. Then I noticed that it was seeping from the edge of the head a bit, then it stopped for about 24 hours. Then I moved it, still full, to a stand and it’s seeping again. 

It it common to leak after moving and then reseal after another day or so or does this indicate a problem? It’s now been 3 days so was hoping to get some wine in there soon but the off and on seeping makes me nervous to do so.

When I say seeping, I’m talking about maybe 1/4tsp accumulating near the seam at the bottom of the head over 12hrs.


----------



## Donz

Drain and refill with very hot water inside and out. What edge is it leaking from?


----------



## jsbeckton

It seems to have stopped seeping again this morning. Should I still do the hot soak method over again? It’s now been 3 days so I think that I need to replace the sulfates water anyways or maybe I can just mix in some more kmeta.


----------



## Johnd

jsbeckton said:


> It seems to have stopped seeping again this morning. Should I still do the hot soak method over again? It’s now been 3 days so I think that I need to replace the sulfates water anyways or maybe I can just mix in some more kmeta.



Did you hot soak the heads? Its important to prep the barrel exterior as well, this adds moisture back to the wood and helps with the seal. You should put near boiling water on the each barrel head while it’s standing, allow it to cool, and repeat.


----------



## mainshipfred

jsbeckton said:


> It seems to have stopped seeping again this morning. Should I still do the hot soak method over again? It’s now been 3 days so I think that I need to replace the sulfates water anyways or maybe I can just mix in some more kmeta.



I would recommend emptying it and tighten the outer 2 hoops really good then soak the outside of the heads. That should immediately take care of it.
When you refill to test you can just use plain water, no need for sulfites since it's a new barrel.


----------



## jsbeckton

I poured near boiling water on each head and let it sit upright for 45m, flipped and did other side. Then I filled about half way with near boiling water and stood upright and added hot water again to head that was on top (so each exterior head 2x). Flipped after about an hour and repeated on other side. Then I let it sit sideways still with hot water for about another 4-5 hours and occasionally sloshed it around to ensure all inside surfaces were coated.

Guess I should just drain and repeat that process? Also; though I read of people adding kmeta and citric acid to the cold soak but maybe that isn’t necessary?


----------



## ibglowin

As mentioned above it may take a tap or two on the outer hoop to stop the leak. If all else fails a little dab of barrel wax, bees wax or even paraffin wax at the site of the leak should stop it cold.


----------



## Ajmassa

@jsbeckton I had this same issue. Except with wine not water. Did all kinds of preventative maintenance 
Hot soak in AND out
Tighten rings
Beeswax at leaky spots
Butcher block oil around barrel. 
I did throughly hot soak seal the barrel beforehand (outside heads and barrel soak as well) and again after. Basically had all the same people offering advice. Probably was this thread too lol. 
Tightened the rings with wine in it freshly topped up (not reccomended! Solid bung and wine shot across the room like a bullet!) and retightened ALL of them when emptied. (Grinded an old chisel flat)
I ended up coating the inside corner where the head meets the staves with beeswax like a caulk joint almost. Seep stopped. Only to just find different penetration points. I also did 1 coat of butcher block oil around the whole barrel Never noticed any slowing in the evaporation rate from it. And haven’t needed to do any maintenance since. Not sure what was the specific fix was. Just offering my experiences for reference.


----------



## jsbeckton

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Before I did the initial soak I tightened the hoops pretty good with a dull masonry chisel but maybe it still needs a fee more taps. If there is no harm I’d have no problem putting beeswax on the trouble spot. Two questions:

Where can I get beeswax?
Does the barrel need to be dry before adding it or can I spot fix once full if it starts seeping?

Thanks!


----------



## Ajmassa

If it’s as slow as you say then can just wipe the leak it away before applying. 
I bought the jar- not the block. I believe was purchased at CVS next to the hair gel.


----------



## jsbeckton

Thanks. It’s bone dry again so tempted to just fill it with wine and see if it holds but maybe I should redo the swelling procedure...


----------



## Johnd

jsbeckton said:


> Thanks. It’s bone dry again so tempted to just fill it with wine and see if it holds but maybe I should redo the swelling procedure...



I've gone through all of the prep procedures on barrels in the past and had them leak a bit. None of the leaks were substantial and all sealed themselves up within a few days to a week or so. Perhaps the sediment in a new wine plugs the hole, maybe just the prolonged contact / swelling from the wine, I don't know. A little spritz of k-meta on the wine stained areas cleaned them right up and never had another issue. I'm not telling you to fill it, but if the leak isn't substantial, you may just get away with it.


----------



## Jay A

That weeping was pretty common when I used barrels. I would apply a pinch of K meta crystals on leak, rubbing into a paste. No effect on leak, just kept mold away. Tried everything with some weepers to no avail, others were tighter than a clam.


----------



## jsbeckton

Well, I decided to just drain, tighten the hoops again, then redo the hot soak. It’s been about 6hrs since I refilled with cold water and so far no leaks but think it was also good the first day last time so will see how it looks tomorrow.


----------



## mainshipfred

From what it appeared the leak was like and you put a good whack on the outer hoops you should be fine. One of mine this year mimicked your leak and one last tightening was all it took.


----------



## jsbeckton

Holding strong here the next day. If it’s still dry tomorrow I’ll fill it with wine.

Are those of you that have to AIO just using a racking cane to get the wine in or do you have a bigger adaptor for the larger barrel bung size?


----------



## mainshipfred

jsbeckton said:


> Holding strong here the next day. If it’s still dry tomorrow I’ll fill it with wine.
> 
> Are those of you that have to AIO just using a racking cane to get the wine in or do you have a bigger adaptor for the larger barrel bung size?



Steve makes one for a barrel. You might have,to let him know it's a 9.5 and not a 10


----------



## jsbeckton

Will do. I have noticed that during the cold soak I was losing about 1/3 cup a day or so. How often should I be topping up during barrel aging?


----------



## Johnd

Initially, your loss will be quicker, as the barrel becomes saturated, just check it every week or so for the first month or so. After that, monthly should be sufficient for topping up / sulfite checking. When I filled my 60 last year, it took almost a bottle a week in the beginning, that toned down to about a half bottle a month, which is about where it is now.


----------



## jsbeckton

Speaking of top up, just how high are you guys topping up your barrels? It seems pretty easy to leave just a 1/2” space with a carboy but given the barrel doesn’t have a neck I’m not exactly sure what to shoot for. I tried filling just to the bottom of the tapered opening and putting a solid bung on but it’s seeping out around the bung, maybe from the CO2 escaping with the nucleation points?

Anyways, am I filling too high or do I just need an airlock to allow for some offgassing (has been vac racked 2x already)?


----------



## mainshipfred

jsbeckton said:


> Speaking of top up, just how high are you guys topping up your barrels? It seems pretty easy to leave just a 1/2” space with a carboy but given the barrel doesn’t have a neck I’m not exactly sure what to shoot for. I tried filling just to the bottom of the tapered opening and putting a solid bung on but it’s seeping out around the bung, maybe from the CO2 escaping with the nucleation points?
> 
> Anyways, am I filling too high or do I just need an airlock to allow for some offgassing (has been vac racked 2x already)?



I struggle with that myself. Even if I put it 1/2" below the bottom of the opening I still sometimes get the seepage and they are in a controlled environment.


----------



## Johnd

I fill my barrels to the bottom of the tapered hole, spray sulfite into the hole and on the bung, then twist / push the bung down into the opening. If it seeps a bit around the hole, just wipe it off with a clean cloth. I always finish up by spraying sulfite solution on the outside of the bung and surrounding barrel wood, which removes the red wine stains and sanitizes the area.


----------



## jsbeckton

Ok, thought it might have something to do with the CO2 because the water didn’t seem to seep at all during the cold soak.


----------



## stickman

I remember similar issues when I was using a barrel, for a new wine the CO2 and wood nucleation is a factor, leaving a little space and using an airlock for a while may be helpful.


----------



## jsbeckton

stickman said:


> I remember similar issues when I was using a barrel, for a new wine the CO2 and wood nucleation is a factor, leaving a little space and using an airlock for a while may be helpful.



Thanks.

I noticed you seem to indicate that you no longer use a barrel. Any reason for the change? I’m hoping that the barrel takes my wines to the next level but maybe I’m too optimistic.


----------



## stickman

Over the years I went through a couple new 30gal barrels, one American and one French, used them as neutral for several years, then purchased the Flex tanks primarily for convenience and easy empty storage. The barrels and stands were taking up space, so I gave them all to a home-brew friend of a family member; I was supposed to get a taste of the beer they were reportedly going to age in the barrels, but haven't heard from them since. 
I'm sure the barrel will take your wine to the next level.


----------



## Bill McNab

For info on importing Canadian Grapes, crushed and destemed.
I have been buying juice and grapes and barrels from Watsons Barrels for 25 years.
They grow their own grapes. Excellent quality and pricing since the Cdn $ is at 75 cents US$.
I have inpirted Grapes, crushed, and Barrelx several times I to the US. ( since I live in TN) no import duty at all.
As long as you say, for personal consumption.
Over the years I have never paid a cent in duty fees.
They sell Zemplen barrels, my latest had zero leaks with water and wine.
If buying a Barrel you will pay 13% purchase Tax, Cdn$ still cheaper because of the $ diferential.


----------



## mainshipfred

It's getting time to start thinking about this year's barrel order. I still don't have the pricing but was told they should be close to last years. To throw a wrench in it @StreetGlide found a source for reasonably priced American Oak barrels which he seems to like . The company is The Barrel Mill and located in Minnesota. They don't mention toasted barrels only charred but if you call they will toast. The other plus is they are in stock. I have no knowledge of this company other than what he posted. The link is attached. The other reliable source is Watson's in Canada as Bill posted above. They get theirs from the same cooperage as I do. 

https://www.thebarrelmill.com/


----------



## StreetGlide

mainshipfred said:


> It's getting time to start thinking about this year's barrel order. I still don't have the pricing but was told they should be close to last years. To throw a wrench in it @StreetGlide found a source for reasonably priced American Oak barrels which he seems to like . The company is The Barrel Mill and located in Minnesota. They don't mention toasted barrels only charred but if you call they will toast. The other plus is they are in stock. I have no knowledge of this company other than what he posted. The link is attached. The other reliable source is Watson's in Canada as Bill posted above. They get theirs from the same cooperage as I do.
> 
> https://www.thebarrelmill.com/



I honestly can not be happier with the barrels from the Barrel Mill. However, they are probably closer to 6 gal then 5, they were sold as 5 gal. They were delivered perfect, did not leak water and are both full right now, and they did not leak a drop of wine. They have both been full for only a week and tonight’s taste test has me pleased.


----------



## Spudwrench12

Could I ask what your barrel cost . PS cost is not a problem with me but a greatly crafted barrel is what I’m looking for .


----------



## StreetGlide

Spudwrench12 said:


> Could I ask what your barrel cost . PS cost is not a problem with me but a greatly crafted barrel is what I’m looking for .



I believe they were either $155 or $160 each. The 2 barrels along with 2 oak cradles and shipping was around $450 delivered and I plan on having 2 more delivered before Sept and the West Coast grape season.


----------



## Ajmassa

50L Hungarian barrel Timing will work perfectly for Spring ‘20 grapes and then roll right into fall grapes.  Much obliged @mainshipfred. It was great seeing you this morning. Enjoy your South African crush today and good luck!


----------



## stickman

Really nice, but it's irritating looking at it through a half mile of plastic wrap, though I understand you don't want to remove it until you're ready to use.


----------



## Ajmassa

Lol. Been sittin like that since September too. But finally will get to breath some life into it soon. Likely filling after May’s grapes are thru MLF. 

Always exciting getting new toys. Gonna build a holder for it on casters either today or tomorrow


----------



## Boatboy24

Ajmassa said:


> 50L Hungarian barrel Timing will work perfectly for Spring ‘20 grapes and then roll right into fall grapes.  Much obliged @mainshipfred. It was great seeing you this morning. Enjoy your South African crush today and good luck! View attachment 60258



I was just wondering to myself if Fred made it up there yesterday. It looks good! I know I'm enjoying the 40L I got.


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa said:


> 50L Hungarian barrel Timing will work perfectly for Spring ‘20 grapes and then roll right into fall grapes.  Much obliged @mainshipfred. It was great seeing you this morning. Enjoy your South African crush today and good luck! View attachment 60258



Good seeing you as well, too bad we couldn't have grabbed a beer.


----------



## rødvinselsker

I read that smaller sized barrels have far more surface area for a given volume of wine (or other), and found a thread discussing aging schedules. Not ready for barrels yet, but as I begin to produce wine from grapes in the fall, barrel aging is where I'm headed. Many very good wines are barrel aged anywhere from 15-22 months, but that's based on a combination of neutral and new oak, as well as the barrel size. So, for anyone who may have done the calculations, is there guidance for aging time in smaller barrels that would impart an equivalent amount of oak as a larger barrel, i.e., 15 gallon vs. 60 gallon? I know the SA/V ratio goes up significantly as the barrel size is reduced. Thanks!


----------



## rødvinselsker

rødvinselsker said:


> I read that smaller sized barrels have far more surface area for a given volume of wine (or other), and found a thread discussing aging schedules. Not ready for barrels yet, but as I begin to produce wine from grapes in the fall, barrel aging is where I'm headed. Many very good wines are barrel aged anywhere from 15-22 months, but that's based on a combination of neutral and new oak, as well as the barrel size. So, for anyone who may have done the calculations, is there guidance for aging time in smaller barrels that would impart an equivalent amount of oak as a larger barrel, i.e., 15 gallon vs. 60 gallon? I know the SA/V ratio goes up significantly as the barrel size is reduced. Thanks!


After a little digging, I found this. Couldn't find a way to delete my original post, so thought I'd update it for anyone else who may be looking for an answer to the question. While it doesn't show a standard 223-228 liter barrel, it's rough guidance at least puts things into perspective. Barrel Dimensions Deep South Barrels 


VolumeSurface AreaSurface to VolumeRatio toDaysWeeksMonths(Liters)(Sq. Inches)Ratio53 Gallon Barrel= 1yr= 1yr= 1yr1 Liter2062066.31588.241.92 Liter2971484.548011.452.643 Liter3981334.079012.792.955 Liter5691143.4910514.923.4410 Liter892892.7313419.044.3920 Liter1382692.1217324.585.67200 Liter/53 Gal42003313655212


----------



## Boatboy24

I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months. 

I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.


----------



## mainshipfred

If you look at the source the aging times are for whiskey which makes more sense.


----------



## Chuck E

Boatboy24 said:


> I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months.
> 
> I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.



Same here!


----------



## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months.
> 
> I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.


 I default to what you guys have mentioned before as the small barrel rough guideline. One week per gallon doubling each run concurrently.
New barrel = 1 wk/gal
2nd run= 2wks/gal
3rd run = 4wks/gal
Likely neutral after that

It was on point more or less with my 8 gal. Thinking (hoping) that the time increases a bit with the 15 I’m about to fill soon


----------



## rødvinselsker

Boatboy24 said:


> I wouldn't put wine in a new 20 liter barrel for 5.6 months.
> 
> I have a few 23 liters and the first wine in for me is usually 4-6 weeks. From there, ~8 weeks, and then the 3rd or 4th would go 12 weeks. After that, anywhere from 3-6 months. This is all subject to taste, style and personal preference, of course. Taste the wine every couple of weeks for the first few. Let it go to a little more oak than you think you want. It'll fall back over time. If you take it out and later decide it doesn't have enough, you can always rotate the wine back through.



Right, that math doesn't work for wine since the benchmark one year in the table is based on a 53Gal/200L barrel vs. a standard Bordeaux (Barrique) barrel at 59 gallons, which has 3100 square inches, or a SA/V ratio of 52.54 (Concepts in Wine Technology: Small Winery Operations By Yair Margalit). The other issue is the values in the table don't seem to work anyway, unless I'm just not looking at it the right way. The graphic below shows 21SF of surface area (3,024 square inches) for a 60 gal/228L barrel. So, how does a 200L/53Gal barrel end up with 50% more SI of surface area than a 10% larger Bordeaux barrel? In a similar table to the one above, another barrel website shows the same 53gal barrel as having 6,535 , Barrel Dimensions - Red Head Oak Barrels | Aging Rum, Whiskey, Bourbon, Tequila, Wine Liquor

Once the numbers get sorted out, the other major factor I'll consider is the ratio of wine in neutral barrels to new oak. I downloaded tech data sheets for several wines, using 2016 Markham Merlot as a starting target for where I want to take my wine making, and it was aged 14½ months in French & American Oak, 32% of which was new.


----------



## mainshipfred

Just received the 2020 pricing for the barrels. One member has shown an interest for 2 barrels. I'm probably getting 3 so we need at least 5 more. Anyone interested?

25 liter $190.00
30 liter $195.00
40 liter $205.00
50 liter $215.00


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Just received the 2020 pricing for the barrels. One member has shown an interest for 2 barrels. I'm probably getting 3 so we need at least 5 more. Anyone interested?
> 
> 25 liter $190.00
> 30 liter $195.00
> 40 liter $205.00
> 50 liter $215.00



You just reminded me: I need to do some barrel tasting/topping. I think the Zin is ready to come out of the 40L I got through you last year.


----------



## mainshipfred

I forgot to remind everyone of @StreetGlide's purchase from Whiskey + Oak Barrels for Sale | Cooperage | The Barrel Mill. They are American Oak and he seemed to like them, plus if I remember correctly they might have been less expensive. Also remember even though they are advertised as charred they will toast them if you request. For the Canadian folks don't forget Watson's. They also carry French Oak. See @Donz post #171 and 173 for pics. Just trying to help out!


----------



## The Dutchman

mainshipfred said:


> Just received the 2020 pricing for the barrels. One member has shown an interest for 2 barrels. I'm probably getting 3 so we need at least 5 more. Anyone interested?
> 
> 25 liter $190.00
> 30 liter $195.00
> 40 liter $205.00
> 50 liter $215.00



How would this work as far as shipping goes?
I am in Arkansas, and might be interested in it for next year.
already oaked my last year's wines, and want to plan it out to where the barrel won't be empty.


----------



## mainshipfred

The Dutchman said:


> How would this work as far as shipping goes?
> I am in Arkansas, and might be interested in it for next year.
> already oaked my last year's wines, and want to plan it out to where the barrel won't be empty.


 They won't come in until September. The best thing to do is let me know what size you want and I can give you the specs. Then you can punch in the information and get a shipping ticket to me.


----------



## Padrino

I would be interested in1-2,30 liters barrels also, but need more info, new, used, and is there shipping charge?
[email protected]


----------



## mainshipfred

Padrino said:


> I would be interested in1-2,30 liters barrels also, but need more info, new, used, and is there shipping charge?
> [email protected]



A 30 liter barrel is 16x16x18 and weighs 35lbs. They would be coming from zip code 20151 Chantilly VA. Go to the UPS website with this information and you would get the shipping charge. They are new Hungarian Oak barrels.


----------



## crushday

Fred, please put me down for two 50L barrels.


----------



## mainshipfred

crushday said:


> Fred, please put me down for two 50L barrels.



50's seem to be the most popular this year.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> 50's seem to be the most popular this year.



The 40 I got last year is performing very well. Almost time to take the first wine out of it.


----------



## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> The 40 I got last year is performing very well. Almost time to take the first wine out of it.


About how long has this 1st run been in your 40L? 3 months?

I’m about to fill my new 50L and Im really hoping I’m able to give the wine a nice long run Especially the 2nd run theoretically could go 8 months+


----------



## Boatboy24

Ajmassa said:


> About how long has this 1st run been in your 40L? 3 months?
> 
> I’m about to fill my new 50L and Im really hoping I’m able to give the wine a nice long run Especially the 2nd run theoretically could go 8 months+



I'm a little over 4 months now. First wine in was mostly Zin with 10 or 15 percent Petit Sirah. Last taste was about two weeks ago - good oak, but nowhere near overdone. I plan to take it out in the next ~30 days.


----------



## Donz

Love my new French barrel, it's the best barrel of the 3 I own.


----------



## mainshipfred

Padrino said:


> I would be interested in1-2,30 liters barrels also, but need more info, new, used, and is there shipping charge?
> [email protected]



I'm getting ready to place the order, are you still interested?


----------



## mainshipfred

Padrino said:


> I would be interested in1-2,30 liters barrels also, but need more info, new, used, and is there shipping charge?
> [email protected]



I just sent you an email, are you still interested? Also where are you from for shipping purposes?


----------



## mainshipfred

Last chance, placing the order Friday.


----------



## Padrino

Fredrick, I need to talk with you. I sent a reply to you by email.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> Last chance, placing the order Friday.


Good luck. Wishing you another successful barrel run. All the way from the Zemplén forests of Hungary to our basements and winerooms.

I’m pretty dead set my next one being a Saint Martin French 1/4 barrel. But I tested the waters with a 30L Zemplén. Now jumped to a 50L and have been a very satisfied participant. Just wanna say thank you Fred


----------



## WillShill

mainshipfred said:


> For those of you that don't know I am a distributor of Zemplen Barrels in Hungary. I'm not a commercial dealer I just set up to help fellow winemakers offset the cost of barrels. My first shipment was 10 barrles. 5 - 25 liter and 5 - 30 liter. The cost for the 25s was $185.50 and $195.50 for the 30s. I can get any size and any toast. My next price break is 20 barrels and don't have the pricing yet. I was planning on placing my next order the beginning of the year for a July, August or September delivery. The price increase is nominal as the size goes up. If you're interested let me know what you want. Again, I'm not in this for profit and if I can get 20 interested people I'm thinking the price for the 25s and 30s would drop $20.00. I'm in the Washington DC area and have no idea the cost of shipping but would send them at cost.


Hi new forum member from Ireland, have made 5 kit wines , mostly reds and one successful white along with a few fruit wines, the reds don’t just hit the spot, now after a trip to Bordeaux in February and a few vineyard tours, I’ve realised it’s all about the oak barrels, I’d probably want a 20 litre barrel to suit kit sizes , obviously it’s not feasible to order from you due to my location but any advice would be very welcome, thanks William


----------



## jsbeckton

I have oaked some kits in a barrel now and have concluded it’s still not what I want so switched to all grape. There is really no comparison IMO.


----------



## WillShill

jsbeckton said:


> I have oaked some kits in a barrel now and have concluded it’s still not what I want so switched to all grape. There is really no comparison IMO.


Unfortunately my climate doesn’t grow grapes , are you saying that oak ageing doesn’t hit the mark with kit wines and it isn’t worth the expense of an oak barrel


----------



## jsbeckton

I can’t say it’s not worth the expense for you because some people really seem to enjoy the kits. I was just saying that the premium kits never really hit the mark for me even after trying several things to enhance the wine so I finally gave all grape a shot and am really happy. In the US there are places that grapes don’t grow but distributors bring them in. I guess it’s not available everywhere so I am thankful to have this option. Cheers!


----------



## WillShill

If only I had that option, was planning 16 litre concentrate kit or even an all juice kit barrel aged , but I’m now doubting if it’s viable , but that’s what this forum is all about, advice and help, cheers


----------



## Boatboy24

Welcome, Will. I agree w/ @jsbeckton regarding kits - better results are certainly had going all grape. Unfortunately, that isn't an option for everyone. That being said, my kit wine results were generally much better after I started using a 23 liter barrel for aging.


----------



## WillShill

Boatboy24 said:


> Welcome, Will. I agree w/ @jsbeckton regarding kits - better results are certainly had going all grape. Unfortunately, that isn't an option for everyone. That being said, my kit wine results were generally much better after I started using a 23 liter barrel for aging.


----------



## WillShill

Hi Boatboy , that’s my plan just need to source a barrel, I’ve seen some vastly different prices from £100 to £200 without shipping for a 20 litre barrel , hard to establish quality of each item as it’s a niche product, UK forums mostly beer oriented so little advice to be had. Thanks


----------



## Ajmassa

WillShill said:


> Hi Boatboy , that’s my plan just need to source a barrel, I’ve seen some vastly different prices from £100 to £200 without shipping for a 20 litre barrel , hard to establish quality of each item as it’s a niche product, UK forums mostly beer oriented so little advice to be had. Thanks


Food for thought regarding no available grapes. Frozen must is the same as buying fresh grapes. Not sure about France but I know Spain sells and ships frozen must all over. And I believe Italy does as well


----------



## pillswoj

Hi Will,

I do the RJS EnPrimeur kits with skins and use an 19L oak barrel. They spend 6 months in the barrel and generally age for 2 years total before drinking. I am sure that grapes or frozen must would be better but I feel the wine from these kits are very good and the real issue will be finding the variety that you enjoy.


----------



## WillShill

pillswoj said:


> Hi Will,
> 
> I do the RJS EnPrimeur kits with skins and use an 19L oak barrel. They spend 6 months in the barrel and generally age for 2 years total before drinking. I am sure that grapes or frozen must would be better but I feel the wine from these kits are very good and the real issue will be finding the variety that you enjoy.


Hi thanks for your reply, Do you rack to barrel after clearing or rack again, and do you leave wine in carboy long before moving to oak barrel, thanks just at planning stage and taking advice, thanks Will


----------



## pillswoj

I let the wine age in a 23L carboy ~6 months after fermentation (racked a couple of times) then rack to the 19L barrel for 6 months topping up monthly (I bottle the leftovers from the carboy into 375 ml and use them for topping up). After I rack out of the barrel to a 19L carboy for 1-2 months just in case it drops some sediment. Bottle and generally wait 9 months before drinking (I don't even sample the high end red kits until they are a minimum of 24 months from the start of fermentation)

The other thing is to make sure you have another wine ready to go into the barrel. After the wine comes out I rinse the barrel with Hot water, then with a kmeta solutions then rack the next wine into it.


----------



## mainshipfred

The barrels are ordered and everyone is getting what they asked for. I also ordered and extra 25, 30 and 40 liter. They are supposed to arrive the beginning to middle of September.


----------



## pete1325

When would they come in? I live in a western sub of Chicago. I would be interested in (1) 25L Barrel.


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> When would they come in? I live in a western sub of Chicago. I would be interested in (1) 25L Barrel.



Usually the beginning to middle of September. The dimensions are 16" x 16" x 16" and it weighs 25 lbs if you wanted to check shipping costs. Use my zip code 20151.


----------



## pete1325

Okay, Thanks.


----------



## jgmann67

Good morning Fred! 

I’m paging through this thread and am thinking seriously about a barrel for my wine from fresh grapes. I’ve only done fall grapes though. So, doing spring grapes might be a new requirement for me.

Still have extras? Given my current wine making, a 40L probably makes the most sense for me (thoughI guess I could split batches in a 25 or 30L too).

Never used a barrel before and I’ve been at this for almost 6 years now. Maybe it’s time.


----------



## mainshipfred

Sounds like it's definitely time Jim. I still have a 30 and 40 liter not spoken for. Would you like me to put your name on the 40?


----------



## jgmann67

mainshipfred said:


> Sounds like it's definitely time Jim. I still have a 30 and 40 liter not spoken for. Would you like me to put your name on the 40?



I know it's Hungarian oak. But,I went back in the thread to see what toast the 30 and 40 L barrels are. Can't find it.


----------



## mainshipfred

jgmann67 said:


> I know it's Hungarian oak. But,I went back in the thread to see what toast the 30 and 40 L barrels are. Can't find it.



They are all medium toast.


----------



## jgmann67

mainshipfred said:


> They are all medium toast.



Okay - I want one. And the price is unbeatable (either $180 or $190, right?)

Now, which one? 30 or 40L? If recent history is any indicator, I usually wind up with 15+/- gallons of finished wine in the fall. I typically do kits one-varietal-and-a-time, but I see value in doing two-at-a-time instead. What do you suggest?


----------



## mainshipfred

They are $195 and $205, see post 217. A 30 liter is just under 8 gallons and the 40 is about 10 1/2. Which one is hard to say. With either one I think you definitely have to consider either spring grapes or double kits, especially with the 40.


----------



## pete1325

I'll take the 30 L one if it's still available.


----------



## mainshipfred

OK, let me see what Jim decides to go with.


----------



## jgmann67

mainshipfred said:


> OK, let me see what Jim decides to go with.



I think the 30L fits my needs better than the 40L. Sorry Pete.

I'll take it! Meet at WW?


----------



## Ajmassa

jgmann67 said:


> Meet at WW?


Wildwood?


----------



## mainshipfred

Nope, Washington Winemakers. 


jgmann67 said:


> I think the 30L fits my needs better than the 40L. Sorry Pete.
> 
> I'll take it! Meet at WW?



I'm not 100% sure I'm getting anything from them this year but even if I don't I'd probably come to see everyone and help with the crushing.


----------



## jgmann67

Ajmassa said:


> Wildwood?



Nice!!

But, no. Washington Winemakers for grape pick up in late September.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Nope, Washington Winemakers.
> 
> 
> I'm not 100% sure I'm getting anything from them this year but even if I don't I'd probably come to see everyone and help with the crushing.



If you don't go (and assuming I'm employed by then), I'll be there for the pickup and can deliver.


----------



## ceeaton

I was totally sold on all grape a while back, then some of my kits started hitting 4 and 5 years old. I think some of the all grape ferments I had definitely tasted better earlier, but I also think if a kit is given enough time it can be very good as well.

Someday when I grow up a bit, I'll get a barrel and hope it will enhance both types of ferments (kit and all grape). I think the main thing is to try and keep the dirty diapers out of either and let it age properly to become the best wine it can potentially be.

Do I think all grape can become better, right now I think so, but I'm not discounting kits, especially for those who can't easily get fresh grapes in good condition. Time will tell the longer I'm in this hobby, it is a fun experiment for sure.

Edit: was replying to a post from about two pages ago, not sure how that happened...maybe it's time to hang it up for the night.


----------



## jgmann67

ceeaton said:


> I was totally sold on all grape a while back, then some of my kits started hitting 4 and 5 years old. I think some of the all grape ferments I had definitely tasted better earlier, but I also think if a kit is given enough time it can be very good as well.
> 
> Someday when I grow up a bit, I'll get a barrel and hope it will enhance both types of ferments (kit and all grape). I think the main thing is to try and keep the dirty diapers out of either and let it age properly to become the best wine it can potentially be.
> 
> Do I think all grape can become better, right now I think so, but I'm not discounting kits, especially for those who can't easily get fresh grapes in good condition. Time will tell the longer I'm in this hobby, it is a fun experiment for sure.
> 
> Edit: was replying to a post from about two pages ago, not sure how that happened...maybe it's time to hang it up for the night.



five year old kits??? What’s that like????


----------



## Ajmassa

ceeaton said:


> I was totally sold on all grape a while back, then some of my kits started hitting 4 and 5 years old. I think some of the all grape ferments I had definitely tasted better earlier, but I also think if a kit is given enough time it can be very good as well.
> 
> Someday when I grow up a bit, I'll get a barrel and hope it will enhance both types of ferments (kit and all grape). I think the main thing is to try and keep the dirty diapers out of either and let it age properly to become the best wine it can potentially be.
> 
> Do I think all grape can become better, right now I think so, but I'm not discounting kits, especially for those who can't easily get fresh grapes in good condition. Time will tell the longer I'm in this hobby, it is a fun experiment for sure.
> 
> Edit: was replying to a post from about two pages ago, not sure how that happened...maybe it's time to hang it up for the night.



Forget the technical reasons. Barrels are cool. End of story!


----------



## ceeaton

jgmann67 said:


> five year old kits??? What’s that like????


Not sure if you still have any of my wines but if you still have some of the early ones I gave you give them a try, they should be in that range right around now, I'll have to research which ones can't remember off the top of my head.


----------



## jgmann67

ceeaton said:


> Not sure if you still have any of my wines but if you still have some of the early ones I gave you give them a try, they should be in that range right around now, I'll have to research which ones can't remember off the top of my head.



I have a Diablo Rojo downstairs.


----------



## ceeaton

That's hitting 5 years, still not my favorite wine, too much residual sugar from the fpack it came with. Boatboy Jim thought it would make a good sangria base.


----------



## pete1325

No prob...Can I get on the list for a 30 L on the next bulk order?


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> No prob...Can I get on the list for a 30 L on the next bulk order?



Let me see if it's early enough to add another to the order. Will let you know.


----------



## jgmann67

ceeaton said:


> That's hitting 5 years, still not my favorite wine, too much residual sugar from the fpack it came with. Boatboy Jim thought it would make a good sangria base.



I still have a 1.5 of the enigma that made a nice sangria. I might have to kick that off.


----------



## hdgypsyman

mainshipfred said:


> Let me see if it's early enough to add another to the order. Will let you know.


I'm late to the party but I would take a 30L barrel if you can add to the order. I received a 25L AND A 30L barrel from you last year and they are awesome. No problem if it doesn''t work out. My zip is 56081 and I think shipping on two was around $40


----------



## mainshipfred

I guess I don't keep very good records on shipping costs but I'm thinking it might have been $40 each, but I could be wrong. I have a request to add another 30 and haven't heard back yet. I'll see if I can add one more. I do have an extra 25 and 40 not spoken for.

Really glad you were happy with the other barrels though.


----------



## hdgypsyman

mainshipfred said:


> I guess I don't keep very good records on shipping costs but I'm thinking it might have been $40 each, but I could be wrong. I have a request to add another 30 and haven't heard back yet. I'll see if I can add one more. I do have an extra 25 and 40 not spoken for.
> 
> Really glad you were happy with the other barrels though.


If you can add a 30L i will take it and shipping price is no problem. If you can't add to the order i could settle for the 25L.


----------



## mainshipfred

hdgypsyman said:


> If you can add a 30L i will take it and shipping price is no problem. If you can't add to the order i could settle for the 25L.



Still checking, don't rule out the 30 yet.


----------



## dkbecker

mainshipfred said:


> Just received the 2020 pricing for the barrels. One member has shown an interest for 2 barrels. I'm probably getting 3 so we need at least 5 more. Anyone interested?
> 
> 25 liter $190.00
> 30 liter $195.00
> 40 liter $205.00
> 50 liter $215.00


Please put me on the list for a 50 liter if it’s not to late


----------



## pete1325

Any Idea how much to ship one 25 L to 60103?


----------



## Chuck E

@mainshipfred Gee whiz Fred, next year you should announce that the order is in, then wait a few weeks for all the rest of the orders to come out of the woodwork.


----------



## mainshipfred

Chuck E said:


> @mainshipfred Gee whiz Fred, next year you should announce that the order is in, then wait a few weeks for all the rest of the orders to come out of the woodwork.



Isn't that the truth, LOL!


----------



## dkbecker

dkbecker said:


> Please put me on the list for a 50 liter if it’s not to late


If I am to late for this order, please put me on the list for the next one. Thanks, Doug


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa said:


> 50L Hungarian barrel Timing will work perfectly for Spring ‘20 grapes and then roll right into fall grapes.  Much obliged @mainshipfred. It was great seeing you this morning. Enjoy your South African crush today and good luck! View attachment 60258



AJ, do you have wine in the barrel yet? If you don't do you have any way of weighing it and giving me the dimensions. If there is already wine in it the dimensions would be great. I need it to estimate shipping costs for another member.


----------



## jgmann67

Question for the barrel owning community. I have a Cab-Syrah blend that will be turning 1 year old. I hit it with 90 gr of French and Hungarian medium+ Toast oak cubes for each 6 gal of wine. I also have a 2 year old OVZin, which I think I dropped 60 gr of oak/6 gal carboy. The OVZ is a little light and tart while the C/S blend is really spot on.

They’re both going to be shuffled after this year’s crush and I have about 16 gallons of each.

Here’s the question: would you barrel age either of them? I was thinking I might. Suggestions please.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> AJ, do you have wine in the barrel yet? If you don't do you have any way of weighing it and giving me the dimensions. If there is already wine in it the dimensions would be great. I need it to estimate shipping costs for another member.


Just seeing this post now. If you still need this info I can get it for you. Barrel is still empty. Been busy lately and have yet to fill ‘r up.


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa said:


> Just seeing this post now. If you still need this info I can get it for you. Barrel is still empty. Been busy lately and have yet to fill ‘r up.



That would be great if you could and glad your busy.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> That would be great if you could and glad your busy.



50L barrel specs

44 lbs. 
20” length
17” diameter heads
19-1/4” diameter middle

Not exact but good enough for shipping estimate purposes. If the container was exactly 20” x 20” x 20” and the barrel was factory wrapped with the cardboard around the heads then it would be tight. Might need to bump to the next size up.


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa said:


> 50L barrel specs
> 
> 44 lbs.
> 20” length
> 17” diameter heads
> 19-1/4” diameter middle
> 
> Not exact but good enough for shipping estimate purposes. If the container was exactly 20” x 20” x 20” and the barrel was factory wrapped with the cardboard around the heads then it would be tight. Might need to bump to the next size up.
> View attachment 64530


Thank you AJ!


----------



## Ajmassa

Getting those measurements prompted me to get this thing prepped and filled finally. Spring wines are stabilized but still not racked. Time to get to work! It’s already August lol

Barrel has sat so long was inevitable that seams opened up. 1st fill was pouring out the heads on both sides at multiple locations. Staves looked good tho. Ihad already tightened the hell out of the rings.
Rinsed out and soaked with piping hot water and could literally see the oak swell and gaps closing up. I did the heads and inside 1/2 at a time a couple times and let soak over night. Lookin good. Just gotta sanitize and get filled this weekend now. Anticipating at least a little seepage at first

Was awesome that the barrel fit in the sink and was strong enough to hold it. looking forward to getting this filled, getting all the new wines in order and shift my focus to fall harvest!


----------



## pete1325

Wow.....now that's a sink! My plastic slop sink would never hold a barrel, not even an empty one.


----------



## pete1325

What size barrel is that?


----------



## Ajmassa

pete1325 said:


> What size barrel is that?


Its a 50L. (~14gal) which is still just 1/ 4 of a standard full sized barrel. it’s my 2nd barrel My 1st one was a 30L also purchased from @mainshipfred

and yea I was hesitant with all the weight since the corners are all just welds but held up just fine. Love playing with new “toys” and some Tim the Toolman Taylor type grunts may or may not be overheard coming from my basement lol.


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> Wow.....now that's a sink! My plastic slop sink would never hold a barrel, not even an empty one.



Mine is plastic as well but I wouldn't be without it. The only problem I have is it stains so easily.


----------



## Ajmassa

Dry as a bone. 

Previous times I sanitized my barrel I’m pretty sure I went way overkill. I use a 3tbs of kmeta per gal dosage for solution. So I had made that dosage up for the full volume of the barrel. Seemed like a lot and a waste of kmeta.

so for this one mixed enough kmeta for 3gal (9tbs) and just filled it up with water and let sit overnight. Not sure if that’s gonna do the trick tho. The smell doesn’t punch you in the face like it normally would. any advice here?

*Decision was made because kmeta supply running low and didn’t wanna empty the bag


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa said:


> Dry as a bone.
> 
> Previous times I sanitized my barrel I’m pretty sure I went way overkill. I use a 3tbs of kmeta per gal dosage for solution. So I had made that dosage up for the full volume of the barrel. Seemed like a lot and a waste of kmeta.
> 
> so for this one mixed enough kmeta for 3gal (9tbs) and just filled it up with water and let sit overnight. Not sure if that’s gonna do the trick tho. The smell doesn’t punch you in the face like it normally would. any advice here?
> 
> *Decision was made because kmeta supply running low and didn’t wanna empty the bag



I'd say it's fine. A new barrel shouldn't have any bugs in it anyway.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> I'd say it's fine. A new barrel shouldn't have any bugs in it anyway.


What’s your barrel sanitizing protocol?


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa said:


> What’s your barrel sanitizing protocol?


 
For new barrels not a heck of a lot, probably less sulfate then you used.
So far, except for my whites barrel, if everything smells fine I just rinse them well and put the new wine in.


----------



## mainshipfred

Just in case it wasn't clear in the previous post, when I referred to just rinsing before putting a new wine in I was referring to a barrel that was just emptied. When I said "So far" I should have followed with I never had to leave a red barrel empty.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> Just in case it wasn't clear in the previous post, when I referred to just rinsing before putting a new wine in I was referring to a barrel that was just emptied. When I said "So far" I should have followed with I never had to leave a red barrel empty.


I don’t even rinse when re-filling. I took a tip from @stickman and I will rotate the barrel for a few days. Rotate to 2:00 and 10:00 to make sure the roof is saturated well. (Random thought- “Roof” is the accepted term. But isn’t this technically the ceiling?)

then after emptying the residual wine remaining I like to view as a little gift left for the incoming wine  (unless gunked up. But I’ve been mainly using already cleared wines)


----------



## hdgypsyman

mainshipfred said:


> Still checking, don't rule out the 30 yet.


Fred
Did you ever find out if you could add a 30L to the order, or is the extra 25L still unspoken for? Either one would work for me. I looked back at our pm and shipping was $40 per barrel last time.


----------



## mainshipfred

hdgypsyman said:


> Fred
> Did you ever find out if you could add a 30L to the order, or is the extra 25L still unspoken for? Either one would work for me. I looked back at our pm and shipping was $40 per barrel last time.



I'm pretty sure I was. Going out of town till Wednesday, will check when I get back.


----------



## wood1954

mainshipfred said:


> I'm pretty sure I was. Going out of town till Wednesday, will check when I get back.


Fred, do you have any left unspoken for?


----------



## mainshipfred

I just went through my posts for barrels and below is what I have. Please confirm if you are still interested since I still have a few requests and only one 40 liter left.I apologize if I left anyone out. They were supposed to be in Norfolk on the 3rd but got delayed until next week.

@Levi24 2 - 100
@rødvinselsker 2 - 50
@GR! 1 - 50
@dkbecker 1 - 50
@jgmann67 1 - 30
@hdgypsyman 1 - 30
@pete1325 1 - 25
@wood1954 I can save the 40 for you unless someone requests it first.

There is also a 25 and 40 I have to confirm from someone outside the forum.


----------



## hdgypsyman

mainshipfred said:


> I just went through my posts for barrels and below is what I have. Please confirm if you are still interested since I still have a few requests and only one 40 liter left.I apologize if I left anyone out. They were supposed to be in Norfolk on the 3rd but got delayed until next week.
> 
> @Levi24 2 - 100
> @rødvinselsker 2 - 50
> @GR! 1 - 50
> @dkbecker 1 - 50
> @jgmann67 1 - 30
> @hdgypsyman 1 - 30
> @pete1325 1 - 25
> @wood1954 I can save the 40 for you unless someone requests it first.
> 
> There is also a 25 and 40 I have to confirm from someone outside the forum.


I am delighted that you were able to add a 30L barrel for me. I sent you a p.m. with payment and shipping information. Thanks Fred!


----------



## mainshipfred

hdgypsyman said:


> I am delighted that you were able to add a 30L barrel for me. I sent you a p.m. with payment and shipping information. Thanks Fred!



Your welcome, glad you were happy with last year's order.


----------



## jgmann67

Yep!


----------



## pete1325

Hi, this is pete1325. Yes, I’m still interested in the barrel.


----------



## mainshipfred

Looks like I'll be getting the barrels on Tuesday. It appars I may have two 50 liters left if anyone is interested.


----------



## mainshipfred

The barrels arrived today. I'll get shipping costs tomorrow or Sunday and let you know the cost and get them out Monday. If anyone has not given me their address please do so. The local guys just let me know when you want to pick them up. There may be two 50s left as one member didn't respond. Might have to be a local person though because shipping would probably make it not worth it.


----------



## pete1325

Where do I find Citric Acid to help sanitize my new barrel prior to filling with wine??


----------



## mainshipfred

You can just use K-meta if you don't have citric. I have no proof but I understand if you increase the acid level to a pH of 2 the K-meta works better which is what the citric does. You can get it at most supply place, I get mine from Morewine and it's dirt cheap.


----------



## crushday

I get mine from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Cit...3&sr=1-1-526ea17f-3f73-4b50-8cd8-6acff948fa5a


----------



## sour_grapes

pete1325 said:


> Where do I find Citric Acid to help sanitize my new barrel prior to filling with wine??



A quick google says that they have citric acid available at Brew and Grow, in Roselle. There are also LHBS in Palatine and in Charles.


----------



## pete1325

Thanks guys. I'm sure my local shop in St. Charles, IL also has it. Can I drop a few Campden tablets in the water, drain in a few days then add my wine?


----------



## mainshipfred

In a new barrel that should be more than fine.


----------



## pete1325

Thanks again, Fred...I'll drop in three or four tablets, drain in a few days and fill'r up.


----------



## dkbecker

mainshipfred said:


> I just went through my posts for barrels and below is what I have. Please confirm if you are still interested since I still have a few requests and only one 40 liter left.I apologize if I left anyone out. They were supposed to be in Norfolk on the 3rd but got delayed until next week.
> 
> @Levi24 2 - 100
> @rødvinselsker 2 - 50
> @GR! 1 - 50
> @dkbecker 1 - 50
> @jgmann67 1 - 30
> @hdgypsyman 1 - 30
> @pete1325 1 - 25
> @wood1954 I can save the 40 for you unless someone requests it first.
> 
> There is also a 25 and 40 I have to confirm from someone outside the forum.


I just saw this, do you still have a 50l barrel for me?


----------



## mainshipfred

Sorry but I don't. When I didn't hear back from you when I made the post I didn't think you were still interested.


----------



## dkbecker

mainshipfred said:


> Sorry but I don't. When I didn't hear back from you when I made the post I didn't think you were still interested.


I never got the message. Please put me on the list for next year! Thank you


----------



## mainshipfred

I just spoke to Zemplen and was told the pricing will be the same as last year. There were so many late requests last year I thought I would put this out a few months earlier than previous years. The order will go in sometime in June for a mid to late September delivery. In the past I never asked for payment until the barrels came in but last year I got stuck with 3 barrels which I was fortunately able to sell. So this year prior to placing the order I would like to ask for a 50% deposit which is what I have to send to Zemplen. Please let me know what you are interested in or have any questions. 

Also, with regard to shipping, I ship UPS since it is the closest place for me to drop them off. The problem in the past is their term fully crated. The barrels are shipped wrapped in shrink wrap which I reinforce with strapping tape but not boxed. Whenever I ship them I list as fully crated but sometimes, for whatever reason, I get an additional charge for them not being fully crated and bill up to an extra $15.00 which I have to charge. Packaging, labeling and taking to UPS I don't charge for. If you wanted to potentially save the $15.00 you could create your own shipping label and email it to me to place on the barrel. 

25 liter $190.00
30 liter $195.00
40 liter $205.00
50 liter $215.00
100 liter $295.00
120 liter $315.00


----------



## Boatboy24

These are good barrels, and I don't think I could find better pricing if I tried.


----------



## pete1325

Fred, Hi, put me down for a 30L barrel. let me know when I should send the check...


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> Fred, Hi, put me down for a 30L barrel. let me know when I should send the check...



Will do, sometime in June though. Haven't heard anything so I assume you got the leaks stopped.


----------



## pete1325

I filled it today, seems to be holding wine. Thanks. I will be buying another one in August.


----------



## mainshipfred

Looks like I have to get the order in earlier this year. They are telling me I need it the middle of May at the latest. There is very little interest so far, in fact I only have 3 orders. Last year I got flooded with requests after the order was placed. So please let me know as soon as you can if you will be interested.

25 liter $190.00
30 liter $195.00
40 liter $205.00
50 liter $215.00
100 liter $295.00
120 liter $315.00


----------



## pete1325

Fred, I'll take another 25 Litre Barrel. Please confirm that the barrel will be ordered in my name. If you need funds prior to ordering let me know.


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> Fred, I'll take another 25 Litre Barrel. Please confirm that the barrel will be ordered in my name. If you need funds prior to ordering let me know.



Do you not want the 30?


----------



## wood1954

Fred, I’ll take a 40 liter


----------



## StreetGlide

mainshipfred said:


> Looks like I have to get the order in earlier this year. They are telling me I need it the middle of May at the latest. There is very little interest so far, in fact I only have 3 orders. Last year I got flooded with requests after the order was placed. So please let me know as soon as you can if you will be interested.
> 
> 25 liter $190.00
> 30 liter $195.00
> 40 liter $205.00
> 50 liter $215.00
> 100 liter $295.00
> 120 liter $315.00



Hi Fred what type of barrel are these? American M? I have 6 but could use another one.


----------



## mainshipfred

StreetGlide said:


> Hi Fred what type of barrel are these? American M? I have 6 but could use another one.



They are medium toast Hungarian, very nice barrels.


----------



## pete1325

Fred, the 25 Liter will do, for now. Maybe my next one will be bigger.


----------



## StreetGlide

I will take a 25L. How do I go about paying for it?


----------



## mainshipfred

StreetGlide said:


> I will take a 25L. How do I go about paying for it?



I'll have to get back to you. Haven't gotten that far yet. Still waiting to see how many orders I get.


----------



## StreetGlide

mainshipfred said:


> I'll have to get back to you. Haven't gotten that far yet. Still waiting to see how many orders I get.



Ok no problem. Just please let me know. I definitely want one.


----------



## E-man

@mainshipfred - Any idea of what shipping costs (Portland) would be to the West Coast based on prior year's orders? I'm interested in a 30 liter if there is still time to place an order and the shipping isn't outrageous. Thanks...


----------



## mainshipfred

The cooperage is just about done with small barrels so this will be the last call. Please let me know if you are interested one. I have till Monday.


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> The cooperage is just about done with small barrels so this will be the last call. Please let me know if you are interested one. I have till Monday.


last one?! not cool man

when do you expect them to be in your possession by?

i may have to grab another now that i know it’s the last hoorah


----------



## mainshipfred

Mid September


----------



## Cynewulf

Fred, do you mean done with small barrels forever or just this year?


----------



## wood1954

Still up for he 40 liter


----------



## mainshipfred

Cynewulf said:


> Fred, do you mean done with small barrels forever or just this year?



Just this year.


----------



## mainshipfred

wood1954 said:


> Still up for he 40 liter



Yes, I have you down for the 40.


----------



## pete1325

Fred, still have me down for (1) one 25 liter barrel?


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> Fred, still have me down for (1) one 25 liter barrel?



Yes I do!


----------



## pete1325

Great thanks, let me know when you want payment. the ship to will be the same. I can provide address when I send the check. Thanks for all you do Fred.


----------



## dkbecker

Are you still taking orders?


----------



## mainshipfred

dkbecker said:


> Are you still taking orders?



I can't order any more but I think I ordered an extra 30, 40 and 50.


----------



## dkbecker

I would take the 50L. I was looking for the 120L, yet I could make that work.


----------



## pete1325

When do you think they will be in? I ordered a 25L


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> When do you think they will be in? I ordered a 25L



Mid September hopefully, they told me they were having trouble finding sea containers but I think they found one.


----------



## pete1325

Sounds good, just in time for the Harvest time.


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa said:


> last one?! not cool man
> 
> when do you expect them to be in your possession by?
> 
> i may have to grab another now that i know it’s the last hoorah



AJ, just now read this and it is just for this year. I think I have 3 - 30, 2 - 40 and 1-50 left but want to confirm I didn't miss anyone.


----------



## mainshipfred

mainshipfred said:


> Looks like I have to get the order in earlier this year. They are telling me I need it the middle of May at the latest. There is very little interest so far, in fact I only have 3 orders. Last year I got flooded with requests after the order was placed. So please let me know as soon as you can if you will be interested.
> 
> 25 liter $190.00
> 30 liter $195.00
> 40 liter $205.00
> 50 liter $215.00
> 100 liter $295.00
> 120 liter $315.00



To make sure I didn't miss anyone this is what I have so far.
25 L @pete1325
25 L @StreetGlide
40 L @wood1954
50 L @dkbecker 

If that's the complete list I have 1-50 L, 2-40 L and 3-30 L left. @distancerunner wants a 30 or 40 but I don't know which one yet so the numbers may be off by one. Please let me know if I missed anyone or if you might be interested in the ones not spoken for.

Also, this year I may have to ask for a deposit, shipping rates are higher this year but Zemplen told me they could hold the prices if I made an early payment.


----------



## E-man

I’d be down for one of the 30 or 40 L of the unclaimed barrels. Any rough estimate of shipping costs to Portland OR?


----------



## mainshipfred

What came up was $113.59 for the 40 and $91.19 for the 30. That's today, it may change when it comes time to ship.


----------



## dkbecker

How much will it cost to ship the 50l to Montpelier, VT?


----------



## mainshipfred

dkbecker said:


> How much will it cost to ship the 50l to Montpelier, VT?



$72.00


----------



## mainshipfred

I really hope this doesn't come off the wrong way. I just want to reiterate this is not a profit center for me. I might make $10 - $15 a barrel. It takes me about 30 minutes to prep it for shipping and in the past I have gotten stuck with additional shipping charges, people reneging and one person that didn't pay. I appreciate everyone that offered to pay in advance and I'll probably ask for that this year. I also take the barrel to UPS to save the pick up fee. 

All I'm asking is for you to pay for the shipping directly. I am not a regular shipper and I don't get any special rates. Below are the barrel specs needed for creating the label. I've given these to a few people and somehow the rate was substantially different from what I got. My address is 14740 Flint Lee Rd, Chantilly, VA 20151 although as I said I drop off the barrels to a local distribution center. Fed ex is too far for me to go.

Logon to www.ups.com>global, it should come up UPS Ground Shipping, hit that, a screen Create a Shipment should come up. Enter my address, if they ask you for a suite use unit E, you can use your email and phone but if you like PM me and I'll give you mine, hit continue and enter your information, it will ask you if it's residential or commercial, respond and hit continue, select My Packaging and use the specs below, it will ask you to select drop off or schedule a pick up, select drop off, the rate will appear. Also there is a box for crated or uncrated and this is where I got stuck in the past. There is no rhyme or reason that I can tell but I always select crated and at times get charged for the extra uncrated price. The barrels are wrapped in shrink wrap with cardboard on the heads of the 40 liter and up barrels so they are technically not crated. Once you get the label you just email it to me.

25 liter 15x15x16 wt 24lbs
30 liter 16x16c17 wt 26lbs
40 liter 18x18x19 wt 32lbs
50 liter 20x20x21 wt 41lbs

To give you some examples of what I get using uncrated 50l to Vermont $72, 40 to Oregon $114, 30 to Oregon $92, 50 to Pittsburg $52, 40 to Pittsburgh $48.
Crates is $14-$18 less but that's the risk I won't take. Also the specs were consistent the past 2 years but they are nominal. 

If you get some outrageous numbers PM me and I will walk you through it. Also prices change so it would be best to until the barrels arrive and ready to ship.


----------



## E-man

mainshipfred said:


> What came up was $113.59 for the 40 and $91.19 for the 30. That's today, it may change when it comes time to ship.


Thanks! I’d take a 30L if still available.


----------



## mainshipfred

E-man said:


> Thanks! I’d take a 30L if still available.



Consider it yours! I know nothing about them but have you tried Vadai Barrels. They offer similar barrels and some are made by the same cooperage. They cost more but the shipping might make it more economical for you since they are coming from California.


----------



## pete1325

Fred, Hi, I'm still at the same address as the last time you shipped to Bartlett, IL 60103. let me know how much you need. thanks for all your help coordinating these orders.


----------



## dkbecker

mainshipfred said:


> I really hope this doesn't come off the wrong way. I just want to reiterate this is not a profit center for me. I might make $10 - $15 a barrel. It takes me about 30 minutes to prep it for shipping and in the past I have gotten stuck with additional shipping charges, people reneging and one person that didn't pay. I appreciate everyone that offered to pay in advance and I'll probably ask for that this year. I also take the barrel to UPS to save the pick up fee.
> 
> All I'm asking is for you to pay for the shipping directly. I am not a regular shipper and I don't get any special rates. Below are the barrel specs needed for creating the label. I've given these to a few people and somehow the rate was substantially different from what I got. My address is 14740 Flint Lee Rd, Chantilly, VA 20151 although as I said I drop off the barrels to a local distribution center. Fed ex is too far for me to go.
> 
> Logon to www.ups.com>global, it should come up UPS Ground Shipping, hit that, a screen Create a Shipment should come up. Enter my address, if they ask you for a suite use unit E, you can use your email and phone but if you like PM me and I'll give you mine, hit continue and enter your information, it will ask you if it's residential or commercial, respond and hit continue, select My Packaging and use the specs below, it will ask you to select drop off or schedule a pick up, select drop off, the rate will appear. Also there is a box for crated or uncrated and this is where I got stuck in the past. There is no rhyme or reason that I can tell but I always select crated and at times get charged for the extra uncrated price. The barrels are wrapped in shrink wrap with cardboard on the heads of the 40 liter and up barrels so they are technically not crated. Once you get the label you just email it to me.
> 
> 25 liter 15x15x16 wt 24lbs
> 30 liter 16x16c17 wt 26lbs
> 40 liter 18x18x19 wt 32lbs
> 50 liter 20x20x21 wt 41lbs
> 
> To give you some examples of what I get using uncrated 50l to Vermont $72, 40 to Oregon $114, 30 to Oregon $92, 50 to Pittsburg $52, 40 to Pittsburgh $48.
> Crates is $14-$18 less but that's the risk I won't take. Also the specs were consistent the past 2 years but they are nominal.
> 
> If you get some outrageous numbers PM me and I will walk you through it. Also prices change so it would be best to until the barrels arrive and ready to ship.


Hi Fred,
What is your Email address so that I can send you the label?
Doug


----------



## mainshipfred

[email protected] did you get a reasonable rate?


----------



## dkbecker

mainshipfred said:


> [email protected] did you get a reasonable rate?


Yes! $56.90 for the 50L to Montpelier, VT


----------



## dkbecker

mainshipfred said:


> [email protected] did you get a reasonable rate?


I sent two emails to [email protected], and received a message that "the delivery was incomplete". Possibly the message is in your junk file?


----------



## mainshipfred

dkbecker said:


> I sent two emails to [email protected], and received a message that "the delivery was incomplete". Possibly the message is in your junk file?



I always check my junk, that's the correct email. Try [email protected]. That's my business email


----------



## mainshipfred

StreetGlide said:


> I will take a 25L. How do I go about paying for it?



Do you have something blocked, it won't let me send you a PM?


----------



## dkbecker

Fred, do you still have a 40l left?


----------



## mainshipfred

dkbecker said:


> Fred, do you still have a 40l left?



I do


----------



## Meadini

Hi Fred, do you have any 25L left?


----------



## mainshipfred

Meadini said:


> Hi Fred, do you have any 25L left?



It's posible, one person that ordered a 25 is not communicating.


----------



## Meadini

mainshipfred said:


> It's posible, one person that ordered a 25 is not communicating.


I just read about humidity and barrels. Im in Denver and 10% during the winter is common. Would a barrel be worth the trouble in my area?


----------



## mainshipfred

The lower humidity the more wine you share with the angels. There are coatings you can get that slow the process but also slows the micro oxygenation. Neither of which is a bad thing. The surface volume ratio is quite high with small barrels so this would help there. However it doesn't slow the amount of oak given off. 

Since you are in Denver you may want to try Vadai barrels. The shipping might make it a better deal.


----------



## Meadini

mainshipfred said:


> The lower humidity the more wine you share with the angels. There are coatings you can get that slow the process but also slows the micro oxygenation. Neither of which is a bad thing. The surface volume ratio is quite high with small barrels so this would help there. However it doesn't slow the amount of oak given off.
> 
> Since you are in Denver you may want to try Vadai barrels. The shipping might make it a better deal.


Thanks Fred I appreciate it and will look it Vadai!


----------



## ibglowin

I live at higher EL than you and pretty much the exact same temp/humidity combination an I have 4 Vadai barrels. Yes they are worth the trouble as long as you realize you need to keep them full year round and need to be cleaned/sanitized on a routine schedule.



Meadini said:


> I just read about humidity and barrels. Im in Denver and 10% during the winter is common. Would a barrel be worth the trouble in my area?


----------



## mainshipfred

The barrels are supposed to hit Norfolk tomorrow. Fingers crossed customs doesn't hold it up too long. Last year it took 2 weeks and another week for trucking.


----------



## mainshipfred

Just returned from picking up the barrels, although it was mostly my fault it was a trip from hell. First they told me on Tuesday they would probably be ready for pick up yesterday but they would confirm. So 5:00 Wednesday morning I started my 3 hour trek to Norfolk, VA. Sometime while on my way they emailed me saying the sea container was delayed getting to the loading dock door and they were not unloaded. Since it's once a year thing they don't have a full time employee at the warehouse so the person unloading and separating the orders does it after he gets off his regular job which is 5:30. So I spend the day site seeing and shopping. My plans were still to come home that evening but when he arrived the sea container still wasn't at the loading dock and all the doors had containers in front of them. Finally around 7:00 we got the container to the dock and the sky's just opened up. Waited about 30 minutes to wait for it to slow down enough to start unloading. The 40' container was full front to back and bottom to top. Fortunately the small barrels were the first to come off. In order to help them get it unloaded, our barrels were put aside, and I put them on pallets and shrink wrapped them. Then we realized there was only one ground level door that opened to a storage yard that was owner by another company and of course the gate to the yard was locked. So my only choice was to stay the night and pick them up in the morning. Back now and all is good.


----------



## wood1954

mainshipfred said:


> Just returned from picking up the barrels, although it was mostly my fault it was a trip from hell. First they told me on Tuesday they would probably be ready for pick up yesterday but they would confirm. So 5:00 Wednesday morning I started my 3 hour trek to Norfolk, VA. Sometime while on my way they emailed me saying the sea container was delayed getting to the loading dock door and they were not unloaded. Since it's once a year thing they don't have a full time employee at the warehouse so the person unloading and separating the orders does it after he gets off his regular job which is 5:30. So I spend the day site seeing and shopping. My plans were still to come home that evening but when he arrived the sea container still wasn't at the loading dock and all the doors had containers in front of them. Finally around 7:00 we got the container to the dock and the sky's just opened up. Waited about 30 minutes to wait for it to slow down enough to start unloading. The 40' container was full front to back and bottom to top. Fortunately the small barrels were the first to come off. In order to help them get it unloaded, our barrels were put aside, and I put them on pallets and shrink wrapped them. Then we realized there was only one ground level door that opened to a storage yard that was owner by another company and of course the gate to the yard was locked. So my only choice was to stay the night and pick them up in the morning. Back now and all is good.


What an ordeal, thanks so much for undertaking this project.


----------



## sour_grapes

You are a saint, Fred!


----------



## distancerunner

sour_grapes said:


> You are a saint, Fred!



Those are the exact words to describe Fred's effort.


----------



## distancerunner

What size bung do the barrels take?


----------



## mainshipfred

distancerunner said:


> What size bung do the barrels take?



9.5 is best but 9 and 10 works also. BTW, I'll be is Jefferson Boro next weekend for a family reunion. Perhaps we can meet someplace to give you your barrels.


----------



## distancerunner

mainshipfred said:


> 9.5 is best but 9 and 10 works also. BTW, I'll be is Jefferson Boro next weekend for a family reunion. Perhaps we can meet someplace to give you your barrels.



I think we can do that.


----------



## mainshipfred

I believe someone sent me a shipping label for their barrel but I can't seem to find it. I have Doug's but thought I had another. If you sent it please let me know.


----------



## mainshipfred

After doing inventory it appears, as of now, I have 1 - 25, 3 - 30 and maybe 1 - 40 liter barrels left if anyone is interested.


----------



## distancerunner

I can take the 25.


----------



## mainshipfred

Sorry, too late, all I have left are the 30s. They are just under 8 gallons.


----------



## distancerunner

I’ll get back to you. It was for a friend.


----------



## distancerunner

Mainshipfred is truly the greatest. 

Fred was traveling to meet with friends and family. Probably a four hour drive for him. But his route brought him to within fifteen minutes of my house. So we scheduled a time that we could meet while he was in transit. He greeted me at a restaurant parking lot and we loaded the barrels into the back of my car. Not only did he save me the shipping cost, he presented me with a bottle of his wine. 

Wow! How often does something like that happen, even in a community of like minded individuals. Kudos.


----------



## mainshipfred

I've been so busy at work I forgot to post about barrels this year. I just received a reminder from the cooperage that this year's order is due by the end of June.
Sorry for the short notice and the prices have gone up a little this year. Please let me know as soon as you can and I apologize for the late notice.

25 liter $200
30 liter $210
40 liter $220
50 liter $230
100 liter $310
120 liter $325


----------



## pete1325

mainshipfred said:


> I've been so busy at work I forgot to post about barrels this year. I just received a reminder from the cooperage that this year's order is due by the end of June.
> Sorry for the short notice and the prices have gone up a little this year. Please let me know as soon as you can and I apologize for the late notice.
> 
> 25 liter $200
> 30 liter $210
> 40 liter $220
> 50 liter $230
> 100 liter $310
> 120 liter $235


 
Fred, I'll take another 25 L barrel. Let me know the total, with shipping to 60103, same address as my last two. PM with questions. Thanks, Pete


----------



## pete1325

Fred, just following up to see if you received my last PM regarding barrels. I will take another 25L barrel. Please return a PM letting me know you have one ordered for me. we can work out payment later. it will ship to my home in Illinois, 60103.


----------



## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> Fred, just following up to see if you received my last PM regarding barrels. I will take another 25L barrel. Please return a PM letting me know you have one ordered for me. we can work out payment later. it will ship to my home in Illinois, 60103.



I did, sorry I didn't respond. As of now I only have requests for 3 barrels. I need at least 10 to place the order. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## BarrelMonkey

Is that price list correct? Specifically, $310 for 100L but only $235 for 120L?


----------



## Jim Welch

mainshipfred said:


> I've been so busy at work I forgot to post about barrels this year. I just received a reminder from the cooperage that this year's order is due by the end of June.
> Sorry for the short notice and the prices have gone up a little this year. Please let me know as soon as you can and I apologize for the late notice.
> 
> 25 liter $200
> 30 liter $210
> 40 liter $220
> 50 liter $230
> 100 liter $310
> 120 liter $235



I maybe interested in 2-40 L barrels. What is the ETA on them if you can get the minimum order amount? Also, after reading this thread (twice!) IIRC, I see there are locals who pick them up. I’d like to do the same if possible.


----------



## Nebbiolo020

Ad


mainshipfred said:


> I've been so busy at work I forgot to post about barrels this year. I just received a reminder from the cooperage that this year's order is due by the end of June.
> Sorry for the short notice and the prices have gone up a little this year. Please let me know as soon as you can and I apologize for the late notice.
> 
> 25 liter $200
> 30 liter $210
> 40 liter $220
> 50 liter $230
> 100 liter $310
> 120 liter $235


Add me down for 2 120 liter barrels and 1 50 liter


----------



## mainshipfred

BarrelMonkey said:


> Is that price list correct? Specifically, $310 for 100L but only $235 for 120L?


Thank you for catching this. It was a typo, the 120s should have been $325.00. If you look at the cost progression you can see it is an obvious mistake.


----------



## mainshipfred

Jim Welch said:


> I maybe interested in 2-40 L barrels. What is the ETA on them if you can get the minimum order amount? Also, after reading this thread (twice!) IIRC, I see there are locals who pick them up. I’d like to do the same if possible.


Where do you live Jim, I'm in Chantilly VA.

The barrels come in sometime in October.


----------



## mainshipfred

Nebbiolo020 said:


> Ad
> 
> Add me down for 2 120 liter barrels and 1 50 liter


I just responded to another member that there was a typo on the cost sheet. The 120s are $325.00. Do you still want them. Also, where do you live, shipping these large barrels would be quite costly.


----------



## Jim Welch

mainshipfred said:


> Where do you live Jim, I'm in Chantilly VA.
> 
> The barrels come in sometime in October.


I’m in Wilmington DE. The nav app tells me Chantilly is a 2 hour drive with no traffic. I’d be crossing the Baltimore/DC metro areas to get there and was thinking I’d be able to do that on an weekend early in the morning with little or no traffic if that would work for you.


----------



## mainshipfred

Jim Welch said:


> I’m in Wilmington DE. The nav app tells me Chantilly is a 2 hour drive with no traffic. I’d be crossing the Baltimore/DC metro areas to get there and was thinking I’d be able to do that on an weekend early in the morning with little or no traffic if that would work for you.



Definitely works for me, perhaps if you're interested while you are here we could visit one of the local wineries with a few of other forum members.


----------



## Jim Welch

mainshipfred said:


> Definitely works for me, perhaps if you're interested while you are here we could visit one of the local wineries with a few of other forum members.


Maybe so, I could bring my wife if we did that. Put me down for 2 40 L barrels please. I saw you need a deposit, once you get enough to meet the minimum let me know how to get the deposit to you.


----------



## mainshipfred

Jim Welch said:


> Maybe so, I could bring my wife if we did that. Put me down for 2 40 L barrels please. I saw you need a deposit, once you get enough to meet the minimum let me know how to get the deposit to you.



Will keep you posted.


----------



## Nebbiolo020

mainshipfred said:


> I just responded to another member that there was a typo on the cost sheet. The 120s are $325.00. Do you still want them. Also, where do you live, shipping these large barrels would be quite costly.


At that cost it’s much more than I had thought it would be I need to see if they are cheaper locally if I can even get them with supply shortages I’ll have to get back to you.


----------



## Nebbiolo020

mainshipfred said:


> I just responded to another member that there was a typo on the cost sheet. The 120s are $325.00. Do you still want them. Also, where do you live, shipping these large barrels would be quite costly.


I just checked and if I buy locally the supplier told me they would need to order them in and it would be way more than buying yours they want $650 each for a 120 liter barrel and shipping is like $185. Depending on your shipping cost it might still save money over getting them locally.


----------



## Jim Welch

@mainshipfred thought I’d give this a bump by way of asking if you’ve reached the minimum barrel order yet? Thank you


----------



## mainshipfred

Jim Welch said:


> @mainshipfred thought I’d give this a bump by way of asking if you’ve reached the minimum barrel order yet? Thank you



Have not, still only 3.


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## Mcjeff

I’m interested In stepping up my game and getting a barrel. 25l. Question to others. Are people doing kits using this size or doubling the kit and getting a 40l? I also started doing grapes, but similar quantity so I think I’ll start here, but curious if anyone has differ T thoughts.


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## mainshipfred

A 25 liter is about 6.6 gallons and a 40 is 10.6 gallons but barrels are nominal and the volume is not always exact. You will also need additional wine to allow for the angels share, if that helps. Unfortunately it is not looking good for the barrel order.


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## mainshipfred

It looks like we lost our chance for barrels this year. There is a shipping issue and the container has to leave July 4th but it has to be trucked to a German port from Hungary. Plus they have to make the barrels.


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## distancerunner

My partners and I met yesterday to discuss the fall crush. We wanted a couple of 120 liter barrels. 

They who hesitate are lost.


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## Jim Welch

mainshipfred said:


> It looks like we lost our chance for barrels this year. There is a shipping issue and the container has to leave July 4th but it has to be trucked to a German port from Hungary. Plus they have to make the barrels.


Darn, I’ve been researching barrel aging wine since posting earlier in this thread. I was excited to jump in the deep end as I’m wont to do!

I’ll start looking for smallish used barrels I guess, any suggestions anyone?

But consider me in next time Fred.


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## Nebbiolo020

Jim Welch said:


> Darn, I’ve been researching barrel aging wine since posting earlier in this thread. I was excited to jump in the deep end as I’m wont to do!
> 
> I’ll start looking for smallish used barrels I guess, any suggestions anyone?
> 
> But consider me in next time Fred.


I started calling around and everything is spoken for and or out of stock so I’m going to have a rough fall might have to use cubes this year again cause I can’t locate any barrels due to shortages.


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## Jim Welch

Nebbiolo020 said:


> I started calling around and everything is spoken for and or out of stock so I’m going to have a rough fall might have to use cubes this year again cause I can’t locate any barrels due to shortages.


Thanks for the info, I’m going to look at new ones elsewhere although I’ll pay much more than I would through St Fred!


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## Jim Welch

Also, it seems the vadai barrel website is inactive. Has anyone purchased barrels through them relatively recently?


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## distancerunner

Maybe a stupid question, but is it imperative that new wine (once racked, twice racked) go in barrels immediately? Are there problems with bulk storing in glass or stainless until barrels are available? If so, what are they?


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## ibglowin

No problem at all as long as you have the vessel topped up and under an airlock or solid stopper. After that its all about keeping proper levels of sulfites over long periods of time.





distancerunner said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but is it imperative that new wine (once racked, twice racked) go in barrels immediately? Are there problems with bulk storing in glass or stainless until barrels are available? If so, what are they?


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## mainshipfred

distancerunner said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but is it imperative that new wine (once racked, twice racked) go in barrels immediately? Are there problems with bulk storing in glass or stainless until barrels are available? If so, what are they?


I do it all the time, especially with whites since I only have 2 white barrels.


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## Nebbiolo020

distancerunner said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but is it imperative that new wine (once racked, twice racked) go in barrels immediately? Are there problems with bulk storing in glass or stainless until barrels are available? If so, what are they?


I keep wine in a variable stainless tank for long periods of time. You just have to seal it keep your airlock filled up and keep on top of sulfite additions.


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## distancerunner

Thanks for the replies.

When the answers you get aren't the answers you are expecting, look to the question you asked!

Specifically, I'd like to discuss order of operations. If barrel storage is limited, wine will necessarily move between barrels and other bulk storage containers. Is there a reason, like micro-oxidation or oaking, that is specifically desirable to occur early(ier) in the bulk storage process. For instance, is it desirable to have micro-oxidation occur earlier than later? Once the O2 is introduced in micro doses, does it shorten the bulk time? Is it an advantage to place the wine in oak storage earlier so that if over-oaked corrections can be made?


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## mainshipfred

distancerunner said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> When the answers you get aren't the answers you are expecting, look to the question you asked!
> 
> Specifically, I'd like to discuss order of operations. If barrel storage is limited, wine will necessarily move between barrels and other bulk storage containers. Is there a reason, like micro-oxidation or oaking, that is specifically desirable to occur early(ier) in the bulk storage process. For instance, is it desirable to have micro-oxidation occur earlier than later? Once the O2 is introduced in micro doses, does it shorten the bulk time? Is it an advantage to place the wine in oak storage earlier so that if over-oaked corrections can be made?



I thought you asked the question correctly in the first place. As I said with my limited barrels for white wines I am forced to age what I can in the barrels with the rest in carboys. Once I feel the barreled wines have sufficient time I transfer the wine in the carboy to the barrel and barrel to carboy. At bottling both go to a brute so the same wine with regard to oak, micro ox, sulfites or anything else that might contribute are bottled as one. Have yet to have any issues


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## Jim Welch

I’ll put this out there for anyone who may be interested. I was really pumped up to get a couple barrels through Fred here and have been looking for something to get started since the news broke there won’t be a group buy. I saw morewine has Hungarian barrels, they’re not available in the size I wanted AND are more expensive. However I just noticed morewine is offering 15% off many of their products including the barrels so I bit the bullet and ordered one with a stand. Got this for $303.96 shipped to me. Just hope it is worth the money. Definitely want to get a couple 40L barrels through Fred next time he does this. 






*Balazs New Hungarian Oak Barrel - 28L*


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## mainshipfred

Jim Welch said:


> I’ll put this out there for anyone who may be interested. I was really pumped up to get a couple barrels through Fred here and have been looking for something to get started since the news broke there won’t be a group buy. I saw morewine has Hungarian barrels, they’re not available in the size I wanted AND are more expensive. However I just noticed morewine is offering 15% off many of their products including the barrels so I bit the bullet and ordered one with a stand. Got this for $303.96 shipped to me. Just hope it is worth the money. Definitely want to get a couple 40L barrels through Fred next time he does this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Balazs New Hungarian Oak Barrel - 28L*



My guess is you'll be happy with it, welcome to the barrel world.


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## Nebbiolo020

Jim Welch said:


> I’ll put this out there for anyone who may be interested. I was really pumped up to get a couple barrels through Fred here and have been looking for something to get started since the news broke there won’t be a group buy. I saw morewine has Hungarian barrels, they’re not available in the size I wanted AND are more expensive. However I just noticed morewine is offering 15% off many of their products including the barrels so I bit the bullet and ordered one with a stand. Got this for $303.96 shipped to me. Just hope it is worth the money. Definitely want to get a couple 40L barrels through Fred next time he does this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Balazs New Hungarian Oak Barrel - 28L*


They are good barrels I used one for cab franc. I’m getting a couple this fall since I couldn’t obtain other barrels.


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## Jim Welch

Nebbiolo020 said:


> They are good barrels I used one for cab franc. I’m getting a couple this fall since I couldn’t obtain other barrels.


Thank you for the info, I know I’m repeating myself but they are 15% off at morewine this weekend!


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## pete1325

mainshipfred said:


> For those of you that don't know I am a distributor of Zemplen Barrels in Hungary. I'm not a commercial dealer I just set up to help fellow winemakers offset the cost of barrels. My first shipment was 10 barrles. 5 - 25 liter and 5 - 30 liter. The cost for the 25s was $185.50 and $195.50 for the 30s. I can get any size and any toast. My next price break is 20 barrels and don't have the pricing yet. I was planning on placing my next order the beginning of the year for a July, August or September delivery. The price increase is nominal as the size goes up. If you're interested let me know what you want. Again, I'm not in this for profit and if I can get 20 interested people I'm thinking the price for the 25s and 30s would drop $20.00. I'm in the Washington DC area and have no idea the cost of shipping but would send them at cost.


 Fred, just checking to see if/when you will be placing orders for barrels.


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## mainshipfred

pete1325 said:


> Fred, just checking to see if/when you will be placing orders for barrels.


Pete, there was not enough interest this year to place an order.


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## meridaen

So jealous you guys can get barrels so bloody easily. Here in Oz it's basically impossible to get anything under 225L, so I had to buy one of those, break it down, somehow jam 4 x 30L plastic drums into it, then put the bloody thing back together. Now I have a 100L barrel, just with a shit-ton more surface are to volume


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