# Massive Rhubarb Plant



## Wolfpup (May 11, 2018)

Hi folks, 

We have a rhubarb plant (just one) that is over 25 years old. This thing produces enough rhubarb for our small community and I still end up composting a bunch in the fall. 

This year, its already over 3 feet tall and two stalks is enough to make an overflowing pie. Not complaining, the taste is wonderful. It also seems the more I use the faster it reproduces.

Hubby and I decided its probably time to try our hands at making wine. We haven't got a clue what we are doing or have any of the equipment. I did watch a couple of videos but have a bunch of questions.

I went out this morning and brought in 12 stalks, chopped it up and just got it in the freezer. This was just over 8 lbs. The video said the fruit breaks down better with the sugar if its frozen.

I was planning on going to town today to get some supplies. Can someone give me a list of the necessary basics. 

The videos said to use glass, not plastic but a plastic bucket is ok right? Then a large glass thing for it to set in. And how much sugar would go with 8lbs of rhubarb? And, and and?? I'll stop there.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## kyle5434 (May 11, 2018)

This is a recipe I found online (for 3 gallons) and saved for when I eventually get a rhubarb plant to grow...


12 pounds frozen, finally chopped rhubarb
sugar
1 bottle (64 oz or so) white grape juice
1 teaspoon wine tannin
fermaid-k
1 package white wine yeast
pectic enzyme
k-meta
medium toast oak chips


Let frozen rhubarb thaw in refrigerator.
Add water to ~2.5 gallons, then add 3/16 tsp of k-meta.
After 12 hours, add pectic enzyme.
After another 12 hours, add sugar and water to get ~3.5+ gallons with S.G 1.08-1.09.
Adjust acid if necessary to 3.5 pH.
Add tannin, yeast nutrient and pitch yeast.

Rack to secondary when gravity gets to 1.02.

When fermentation has finished, rack to carboy with 3/16 tsp. k-meta and 1/3 cup MT oak chips, and bulk age for 3 months. (If needed, use Chardonnay for topping up).

After 3 months, dose with additional 3/16 tsp. K-meta, degas, use clarifier if needed (sparkolloid, Super Kleer, etc.), after a week or so rack off & bottle.


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## sour_grapes (May 11, 2018)

Here is the advice of a (literal) pro:



GreginND said:


> I make rhubarb wine almost every year and have made it a number of different ways. I now have developed my preferred method which I'll describe below.
> 
> To let you know I do like a drier style rhubarb wine with lots of rhubarb body and flavor.
> 
> ...


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## Wolfpup (May 11, 2018)

Oh my, I understood about 10 words in that post... rhubarb, water, sugar and chardonnay. Well maybe only 4. Really guys, have no idea what those numbers and half those words mean. 

I know bucket and glass thingy. But there was an "S" type thing on to of the glass thing. If I pick up a bucket and some sugar, but how much sugar. We actually prefer honey, will that work?

Oh boy. I might be too new. 

But this....



kyle5434 said:


> This is a recipe I found online (for 3 gallons) and *saved for when I eventually get a rhubarb plant to grow...*



Just let me know, can ship you probably more than enough for the next few years.


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## Wolfpup (May 11, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> Here is the advice of a (literal) pro:



Ahhh, and this recipe says not to put the sugar in right away until after the pulp is out. Hmmm ok. We do like the taste of rhubarb, cooked or otherwise, does that make a difference. 

And interesting note about the 'vegetative taste", always thought of rhubarb as more of a fruit, like lemons and limes.


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## Trevor7 (May 11, 2018)

No such thing as too new...
Are you in Vancouver? Tom's East Vin Winemaking looks to be the go-to place for the necessities http://www.eastvin.ca/
They will set you up with what you need.


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## meadmaker1 (May 11, 2018)

Juice the rhubarb freeze it and thaw it. I was shocked at how much juice it holds, 6 lbs got me 2.5 qrts of juice. 
Add sugar to juice to desired specific gravity. Measured with a hydrometer (they re cheap get one). If you take a picture of it floating you cant record it wrong. 
I like d47 or 71b yeast for mead but would probably use them with sugar too. 
You ll need around 2 lbs of honey per gallon..


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## Wolfpup (May 11, 2018)

Ha ha, boy do I feel better (more educated) now. Hi Trevor, no not in Vancouver, up here in the interior.

Found a wine making shop and it was nice and quiet. Spent over an hour with a lovely lady who had the patience of a saint and the intuition to elaborate when my face went blank.

She sold me the wine making equipment (very different from a wine making kit, which I had asked for) that one needs to get started. A bucket, a 23 liter (6.5 gallon) carboy (how's that for terminology) a hydrometer, the syphoning hoses (a special one that doesn't allow the sludgy stuff to come up), an air lock, big spoon, a wine stealer, cheese cloth, yeast and big bag of potassium metabisulfite. She said the Campden tablets have to be crushed anyway, just use a 1/3 of a teaspoon and you're good to go. Half the price of the tablets. She also showed me how to preclean everything with this potassium stuff in a squirt bottle.

Feel so much better, amazing what a little knowledge will do. She didn't have a lot of experience with rhubarb though and could not tell me about honey.

So Meadmaker, I cut up 8 lbs of rhubarb. Based on what you got it should probably get us around 4 quarts of juice, maybe? The videos I saw, they put the sugar over the frozen rhubarb and let it unthaw together. Sounds like that might not be a good idea? And if it is ok, how much sugar would you use for the unthawing/extracting process? It seemed to me that the sugar is what broke the rhubarb down. Does honey do this as well?

I may be out in left field here. Please bare with me. Truly, the only time the word wine has come out of this mouth is when someone has sat a glass in front of me. Have never even bought a bottle. Hubby has, but not that often. We do like it though.


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## meadmaker1 (May 11, 2018)

Freezing wilts the rhubarb. Drain off the juice toss the stalks. 
I used my press, I might have gotten I pint. Throwing that stuff away now will save time and trouble later, as well as clearing faster


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## meadmaker1 (May 11, 2018)

So heres the way this goes
Youll go back and buy a 5 gallon carboy in a few weeks so you can rack off of lees and have a full car boy. ( siphon clearer wine off of the muddy yuck that settles on the bottom) you will want car boys to stay full. 
Then you ll buy another or 2 so you wont have to wait to start another batch and then a floor corker and a ph meter along with a couple 3 gallon carboys, bottle brushes... I havent found the end yet

Yeast did she sell you yeast , yeast energizer and yeast nutrient


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## Wolfpup (May 11, 2018)

Hee hee. Something tells me you are a very wise meadmaker.

At this point, for me, it's just getting settled with one step at a time. So, I have 8 lbs of chopped rhubarb that went into the freezer this morning. Tomorrow morning I will take it out, put it in the big bucket and.... put in sugar or no. Or don't put it in the bucket, let it unthaw and it will magically make me juice? Then squeeze and toss the stuff away. So sorry, I'm all confused again.

And yes, she sold me yeast. Its called "Lalvin EC-1118". I don't recall her saying anything about nutrient or energizer?


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## meadmaker1 (May 11, 2018)

Just thaw and drain. Poke some holes in freezer bag set in a strainer over a big bowl. And yes magic. Sugar after juice. 
1118 will do the trick. Later youll want yo read up on yeasts and choose them for what they can add and try to match them to your type.
I would shoot for 12-13 % alcohol
I would get some ferm aid k and follow directions 
Jackkeller.com has a good read on yeast. I recomend reading it. Then you decide with some knowledge.


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## meadmaker1 (May 11, 2018)

What other fruit do you get a surplus of.


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## Wolfpup (May 11, 2018)

Ok, thank you so much. This I understand. Could I put a cheese cloth around the frozen mass and let it drain. Then just squish the cloth and toss the stuff? I will read the yeast info you directed me to. Then the juice will go in the bucket with sugar. How much sugar?

Oh, and we also have an ancient Italian plum tree, 36 ice cream buckets last year. Our pear tree is just 4 years old and gave us more than we could eat last year and I have 10 three year old strawberry plants in the garden. They are ever bearing plants. If this rhubarb wine works out and your foretelling wisdom manifests, I can see us drinking a batch of strawberry rhubarb at Christmas time. How many more carboys do I need? Bah, worry about that later. We also have a couple of apple trees, honey crisp and jonigold and a crab apple.


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## Wolfpup (May 11, 2018)

Hey, that Jackkeller.com is a real estate site. No we are not selling. 

Copied and pasted what you had there. Maybe we're missing a letter or something.


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## meadmaker1 (May 11, 2018)

The 90 is 1.090 sg that is a good target for fruit wines. Your hydrometer is your friend


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## meadmaker1 (May 12, 2018)




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## meadmaker1 (May 12, 2018)

Rhubarb plumb is on deck for me if I can get enough free plumbs. Late freeze last year. This year looks good though. 
My strawberry from last yrs berries still isnt bottled. Im playing with adjusting taste. Getting close though maybe this christmas for last years wine.


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## Wolfpup (May 12, 2018)

*The 90 is 1.090 sg that is a good target for fruit wines. Your hydrometer is your friend*

I totally believe this sentence however I do not understand it. Are you able to translate this Winese to English for me?

There is sugar in a 10 lb bag. I have a measuring cup. Can you tell me how much to put in it? And then if possible are you able to provide the ratio for honey. I will talk to one of our bee farmers and see if I can get what's needed. If not sugar it is.


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## meadmaker1 (May 12, 2018)

1.090 lines up close to 12% alcohol
There are posts that tell how much sugar it takes to raise sg a predictable amount. I ll look for it tomorrow. Honey well take about two lbs per gallon. I recommend starting with sugar because its cheaper.


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## Wolfpup (May 12, 2018)

Ok, I will trust what you say. Sugar it is. Have a wonderful night and thank you so much for all you help.


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## meadmaker1 (May 12, 2018)

Making wine is easyer than using all the features of this forum. @BernardSmith posted to a thread I started.
1 lb of sugar raises 1 gallon of must 40 points
1 lb of honey raises 1 gallon 35 points
He is quick with the math, numbers and science facts. 
Im more of a cliff notes guy. 
Lol I should make some cliff notes


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## Venatorscribe (May 12, 2018)

I made a Rhubarb wine last year. The thing you really need to do is neutralise the high level of oxalic acid in the juice. My juice had a pH of 2. I bought myself a small jar of calcium carbonate and slowly added it to the juice. Brought the juice back to neutral then re-acidified with acid blend to bring it back into the range pH 3.5 to 3.9 . Oxalic acid has a very sharp and unpleasant taste hence the reason why you need to neutralise it. Also the reason why the French leave their Rhubarb Wine to mature for five to seven years. It is very much a challenge worth undertaking. Most other fruit wines are not as tricky as this stuff.


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## Wolfpup (May 13, 2018)

Hi guys,

Sorry for the late response, it's been a long, busy day.

Unfortunately, my largest bowl would not contain the frozen 8 lbs of rhubarb. **Note for future, do not wrap cheese cloth around frozen mass. It's a bit of a challenge getting it off and tends to cling to the frozen fruit. AKA - a frozen, gnarly mess. Got it all off tho. So sprayed out the bucket with the potassium stuff and the mass ended up in it.

Got a bit creative. Had a big chunk of ginger just crying to hop in the bucket (love ginger) and as my strawberries just finished flowering, picked up a pound while I was out and tossed them in as well. 

Got that all done at around 6 this evening. So we'll see how the unthawing, juice process goes. I put a towel over the bucket.

And kind of what I'm understanding is depending on the amount of juice might depend on the amount of sugar/honey? And then what, how does it get up to the full carboy. Add water right. And how much water.

One step at a time. Once everything is unthawed, I will post the amount of juice that came out and it might be easier to determine things from there?

I need to do some more reading. There's just so much information here.

Meadmaker, your cliff notes have got me started with a good amount of confidence. I'm so appreciative that they were there guiding me.

And very interesting information Venatorscribe, hopefully you're around to tell me about this oxalic acid thing. Have no idea what that is or how to determine it. I will get calcium carbonate if needed but how do you test the ph of 2? And oh my, 5 - 7 years? Really? I'm a patient person but oh boy. Once this is done, going to have to try an easier fruit wine.

Oh and the craziest thing. Had mentioned this wine venture to a few passing neighbors and this morning, by our gate, two 5 gallon carboys, one a thick plastic and the other a very solid glass one. I couldn't have been more thankful and thought of my new wine making friend, Meadmaker. Well darn, look at that, his prophecy his coming true. 

Have a good evening folks.


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## meadmaker1 (May 13, 2018)

Lol resistance is point less.
For a full carboy you need enough juice to make enough must. 
Im thinking 3 gallons of rhu juice matched with 3 gallons of water to 6 gallons.
I freeze in 1 gallon zop lock bags. Cut the corner off and stick that end in a strainer sitting on a large bowl. As long as it doesnt fall off the bag doesnt need to fit into tne bowl


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## Arne (May 14, 2018)

When you figure how much liquid you are going to ferment, you can go to fermcalchttp://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/FermCalcJS.html and find out how much sugar/honey you want to add to get to your desired level. I usually add a bit less than what the fermcalc says, then slowly add to take it up to the specific gravity I want. make sure you stir the sugar/honey in well before you take your readings. Best way to add the sugar is probably with simple sugar, 1 part water to 2 parts sugar, simmer til it all dissolves and add a little lemon juice. Arne.


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## Arne (May 14, 2018)

http://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/FermCalcJS.html

This should work a bit better I hope.


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

Hello Arne! Perfect timing. My kitchen really looks like a brewing house. Sieves, funnels, cheese cloth, bowls, bucket, carboy, potato masher and juice drops everywhere. But hey, pure juice in the carboy. There is exactly 2 litres and 800 mls. Almost 3 litres of juice. 11 1/3 cups. I will go to your site and see what it tells me.

If anyone can help me with the sugar calculation and the next steps that would be awesome.


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

Just figuring out this website too. Does this work?


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

And this one. Is this a better way to enter them?


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

Sorry for making a mess. Can't delete the other posts. Hopefully this works. 

This is what I'm playing with. Arne that site is still a bit too advanced for me. Couldn't figure out what to enter where?


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## meadmaker1 (May 15, 2018)

You need a half caboy of juice topped with water.
for what you have add about a gallon of water and about 2.5 cups of water. 
For the carboy in the picture you need anothr 30lbs of fruit, or spring clean the freezer and make a mixed batch of ?????


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

Oh boy, really? Ok. I can go get a bunch more rhubarb. Is it okay to let this sit while the other is doing the magical juicing thing. 

But a big mistake. Was doing a bunch of reading and the potassium stuff was supposed to go in now and then wait 24 hours for the yeast and sugar. I put in waaaaayy to much. 5 half teaspoons. I was sure she said half a teaspoon per gallon but there was so much information that day. 

When the coolest chemistry happened (it turned color right before my eyes, went from this pretty pink to a whitish yellow, instantly). I started looking things up and oh man, it's 1/16 of a teaspoon per gallon. Have I ruined things?


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## Stressbaby (May 15, 2018)

It will be a long time before it ferments, that's a pretty big OD.


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

should I just chuck it and start again.


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

Did some more reading. Said when too much potassium is added (didn't see this high a dose tho - most people had just added an extra tablet) to add 2 drops of hydrogen peroxide and keep swishing it around. Put a breathing top on it so the air can be released.

I don't mind if I have to chuck it but did what this said. Does anyone think it will work?

It's been a couple of hours and has gone from that pale whitish to this kind of golden yellow.


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## meadmaker1 (May 15, 2018)

Not much lost if you Chuck it, thats a bunch of k meta for what you have but how long before you have three gallons of undiluted juice. Freeze it if it takes more than a few days. You dosed it for 10 gallons but it will off gas some by the time you get the rest. The yellow thing is sorta weird 
Remember that, k meta= potassium metabisulfite , " potassium stuff" can be a few different things. 

While collecting more barb other things might ripen you might consider mixing.
I would cruse the net comparing every recipie I can find write out your plan like a recipe
Then post it, you can keep your notes on the thread if you want, up date progress and get tips along the way, or maybe teach us something


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## Wolfpup (May 15, 2018)

Ok, that sounds like a plan. I think I will chuck this and chalk it up to the learning process, gosh that was a lot of work today. Oh well. 

Here's a recipe, a lot like the one Kyle posted. Its kind of strange though. You mentioned that I would probably need another 30 lbs of fruit whereas this one says I will get 5 gallons with 12.5 pounds. That's kind of what I was shooting for. This process is a bit different tho. Do you think it will work?

*Rhubarb Wine Recipe #1*
_Makes 5 gallons_

*Ingredients*

12.5 pounds cubed rhubarb (cubed)
5 gallons water
12.5 pounds granulated white sugar
5 Campden tablets
50 ounces white grape concentrate
1.25 teaspoons grape tannin (optional)
5 teaspoons yeast nutrient
1package Montrachet wine yeast
*Instructions*

Starting specific gravity should be 1.090-1.095, and acid should be .60%.
Cut up rhubarb and put in primary fermentor.
Pour dry sugar over fruit to extract juice.
Cover with plastic sheet and allow to stand for 24 hours.
Put pulp in a straining bag (you can use a new laundered pair of panty hose) and add water and Campden tablets (to kill any "wild" yeasts) and dissolve well.
Let stand for another 24 hours.
Add remaining ingredients including prepared yeast.
Let ferment for 48 hours.
Remove pulp bag and squeeze as much of the juice into the must as you can.
Stir the fermenting must twice a day to break up the "cap" that forms on the surface.
In 3 or 4 days (or when the hydrometer reading is 1.030 or lower), siphon into a five-gallon glass jug or carboy and attach a fermentation lock.
Rack again in 3 weeks. Make sure all containers are topped up.
Rack again in 3 months.
When wine is clear and stable, bottle.
Wine may be sweetened to taste at time of bottling with sugar syrup (2 parts sugar to 1 part water). Add 2 stabilizer tablets per gallon (or follow directions on package if using powder) to prevent renewed fermentation. To preserve color and flavor, add 1 antioxidant tablet per gallon.
Age for at least 6 months.


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## meadmaker1 (May 16, 2018)

That works. The grape juice concentrate helps fill the batch. 
No campton tabs. You took care of that with your k-meta.
Be sure your concentrate is 100% grape juice. 
I would like to see more fruit or juice. Recipe seems thin


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Ha ha, no campton tabs, but it says 5 (in my mind that now means 1/16th of a teaspoon, 5 times). Do they even have measuring spoons that small. I will try and find one.

Or do you think I should keep this stuff I have and just add it. Oooo, that sounds messy and way to complicated.

Ok, I will be sure to get 100% grape juice. And some more strawberries and ginger. That was going to be a pretty color before I messed it up. And it smelled so good. Another few weeks and I'll have my strawberries but this batch could well on its way by then.

Oh, and another boo boo. Was putting all the equipment in the dishwasher, knocked the hydrometer on the edge and it flipped out of my hand, onto a rug of all things and broke. Has not been a good wine making day. But this will not stop me. Into town tomorrow for more supplies.


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## meadmaker1 (May 16, 2018)

Rothl 
Merit badge earned for first broken hydrometer.
Your brew store should have juice concentrate too. May be pricey but check.
Brew store will have small measuring spoons. 
Starting over May be best for first try.


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Ha ha, glad you found that funny. My husbands all like... what are you doing. You have to be careful. Did that thing have mercury in it. Oh geez, I don't know. Check the garbage and take it out while you're at it. 

Earning a merit badge makes all the devastation worth it. Thanks for that.

Just picked another 13 lbs of rhubarb. Will cut it up in the morning and get it into the freezer for the day. And good to know about the measuring spoons, who would have thunk a brew store would sell those.


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## Arne (May 16, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Hello Arne! Perfect timing. My kitchen really looks like a brewing house. Sieves, funnels, cheese cloth, bowls, bucket, carboy, potato masher and juice drops everywhere. But hey, pure juice in the carboy. There is exactly 2 litres and 800 mls. Almost 3 litres of juice. 11 1/3 cups. I will go to your site and see what it tells me.
> 
> If anyone can help me with the sugar calculation and the next steps that would be awesome.


Click on the website I posted. Click on where it says sugar. Fill in the chart and it should tell you how much sugar to use. Arne.


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## peaches9324 (May 16, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> We have a rhubarb plant (just one) that is over 25 years old. This thing produces enough rhubarb for our small community and I still end up composting a bunch in the fall.
> 
> ...


 sorry I don’t have an answer for your question I have a question of my own I wish to ask you. What is the ph of the soil your growing in? I can’t get rhubarb to grow!


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## Brigitte (May 16, 2018)

Following


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Ha ha, another crazy day. Haven't even got the rhubarb chopped up yet.



Wolfpup said:


> Arne that site is still a bit too advanced for me. Couldn't figure out what to enter where?



Hey Arne, yes I went to your site right away and they are asking for numbers that I don't understand

Hi Peaches and Brigitte, its funny, hubby and I really aren't growers. We are on a riverbank so there is a lot of clay in it. And I hear about how hard it is to dig every time I want a hole dug. There's a lot of white stuff in it. Not exactly sure what that is, lime maybe.

Just took these pics for you. And this is after I took off the initial 8.5 lbs. A couple of neighbors got some stalks for pies and I took off another 13 lbs last night. So all in all, about 25 lbs of rhubarb lighter than it was last week. And I'm still no where near using it all up. One plant.








This is what 13 lbs of rhubarb looks like:





And here's what a bit of the garden looks like. It's raised. We did this four years ago. We have an acre of lawn to mow so it gets all the clippings, but that's it and this soil is now really nice. We started with just the dirt from a basement we put in (well along with the house upgrade). Neighbors are always asking how come stuff grows on our property so well. We don't know. And we don't use any pesticides either.

Hmmm, won't let me add this last picture, maybe I have to do another post. Lets try that.


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Ha ha, it's telling me my garden (pic) is too big. That's what I think too every time I have to weed. Strange. Will take another one and try again later. Have a bunch of chopping I need to get done. And when it's all in the bucket I'm going to come and ask what to do next.

Got a new hydrometer and a thermometer too this time. Expensive little gadgets. Didn't realize that was the cost with it being included in the equipment kit. She also got me the straight white grape concentrate. We had a choice between red or white grapes, I told her to pick. She chose white.  No measuring spoons though. I will keep a lookout for the 1/16.

Ok, off to chop some rhubarb.


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Ha ha... Magic. Not, a lot of blood, sweat and tears. Don't worry, it's all clean. Covered it with saran wrap and put it in the cooler basement. Can someone please tell me what to do next. Should I freeze it, or put it in the bucket with sugar? Put in water and yeast? So many different ways I've seen.

This recipe says:
1. Cut up rhubarb and put in primary fermentor.

2. Pour dry sugar over fruit to extract juice.

The recipe calls for 12.5 pounds of sugar. Do I really put all that in together with this? Should I freeze it first? Oh boy, lots of questions.


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Oh, and this:

*Hi Peaches and Brigitte, its funny, hubby and I really aren't growers. We are on a riverbank so there is a lot of clay in it. And I hear about how hard it is to dig every time I want a hole dug. There's a lot of white stuff in it. Not exactly sure what that is, lime maybe.*

Hubby just got home and told me it's not lime, it's alkali. Lots of alkali in the ground here.


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## meadmaker1 (May 16, 2018)

You can't take an accurate sg if the juice isn't in solution, so I would freeze it even if I'm throwing it all in anyway.
For sugar remember you can always add more. This is where the hydrometer comes in, add your juice and most of your water -measure sg
Then 1 lb of sugar per gallon will raise sg 40 points. I wouldn't go over 1.100 
This is where the 24 hrs is useful. Shoot low and bump up every few hrs till you are close enough. Sugar syrup works good when you get close. 2-1 simple syrup.


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## wildhair (May 16, 2018)

This is almost as funny as the Super Spicy Ginger wine thread, but without the panache of the Aussie's writing style. LOL

I make Rhubarb wine every year. I'm drinking some now, actually. I need at LEAST 4# per gallon - 20# min. for a 5 gal batch. I chop it and freeze it first. Here's a couple of recipes to get you going.


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Ha ha wildhair. Glad some of you are being entertained. Really trying hard to learn something here. Will try and spark up the writing panache. In the meantime, looked at your recipes and this is the one I was going for, was happy to see it in your list:

Rhubarb Wine Recipe #1
Makes 5 gallons
Ingredients
12.5 pounds cubed rhubarb (cubed)
5 gallons water
12.5 pounds granulated white sugar
5 Campden tablets
50 ounces white grape concentrate
1.25 teaspoons grape tannin (optional)
5 teaspoons yeast nutrient
1package Montrachet wine yeast
Instructions
1. Starting specific gravity should be 1.090-1.095, and acid should be .60%.
2. Cut up rhubarb and put in primary fermentor.
3. Pour dry sugar over fruit to extract juice.
4. Cover with plastic sheet and allow to stand for 24 hours.
5. Put pulp in a straining bag (you can use a new laundered pair of panty hose) and add water and Campden tablets (to kill any "wild" yeasts) and dissolve well.
6. Let stand for another 24 hours.
7. Add remaining ingredients including prepared yeast.
8. Let ferment for 48 hours.
9. Remove pulp bag and squeeze as much of the juice into the must as you can.
10. Stir the fermenting must twice a day to break up the "cap" that forms on the surface.
11. In 3 or 4 days (or when the hydrometer reading is 1.030 or lower), siphon into a five-gallon glass jug or carboy and attach a fermentation lock.
12. Rack again in 3 weeks. Make sure all containers are topped up.
13. Rack again in 3 months.
14. When wine is clear and stable, bottle.
15. Wine may be sweetened to taste at time of bottling with sugar syrup (2 parts sugar to 1 part water). Add 2 stabilizer tablets per gallon (or follow directions on package if using powder) to prevent renewed fermentation. To preserve color and flavor, add 1 antioxidant tablet per gallon.
16. Age for at least 6 months.


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## Wolfpup (May 16, 2018)

Ok Keith, that is good news for tonight. Rhubarb just put in the freezer. Now the recipe doesn't state that though. You did say find a recipe and follow it. I will trust you.

So tomorrow, I will put the frozen masses in the bucket with 12.5 pounds of sugar?


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## Brigitte (May 17, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Ha ha, another crazy day. Haven't even got the rhubarb chopped up yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That’s a beautiful plant! Can’t wait to see
How your wine turns out!


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## wildhair (May 17, 2018)

I read all this and I'm a bit confused. 
Are you putting the chunks of rhubarb in the primary and covering with sugar *OR* are you freezing the rhubarb then pressing to extract the juice?
You added *5 *t of potassium metabisulfite to how much liquid? For purifying the juice in a 5 gallon batch you only need 5 - 1/16 t or 1/4 t + 1/16 t (a rounded 1/4 t is close enough). Some one said you added enough for 10 gallons - in reality - you added enough for 80 gals. The Campden tablets are easier to use - just 1 tab per gal.....like the recipe says.
And you are adding strawberries? And ginger? Are you putting the fruit in bags or just leaving it loose in the primary?

Here's my thoughts with the disclaimer that I have limited experience and the opinions expressed are to be followed at your own risk.

I would add more rhubarb. You said you like the taste of rhubarb and the recipe you are using seems ......weak. 

You added way to much potassium metabisulfite (k-meta)- I would let it air out for a couple days by just leaving the towel over it and NOT adding the yeast yet. The purpose of the k-meta is to kill the wild yeast - that's why we wait 24 hrs before adding the yeast. if you add your yeast too early - it may kill it, too and your wine may not ferment. You need to stir it a couple times a day and it needs a large opening to de-gas and loose the potency of the k-meta before adding the good yeast. Get a large primary fermenter (8 gal or so) or sterilize a couple 5 gal buckets and pour the must in those. I would add all the other ingredients (EXCEPT the yeast) and cover it with a towel at this point. I would add the yeast in a day or 2. 

I would also add the calcium carbonate (precipitated chalk) - it smooths out the wine by neutralizing the oxalic acid in rhubarb.

I attached the Rhubarb recipes (same ones) in .pdf format - it's easier to read. I used the very first one (from Jack Keller's website). Much heavier on the rhubarb - 6-7# per gal. It turned out quite nice. The very last recipe has some of my notes, substitutions and changes (in red). http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

I freeze the washed and chopped rhubarb in 5# bags and sprinkle pectic enzyme on it before vacuum sealing it. I use at least 25-30# for a 5 gallon batch. I thaw it in the primary, pour it into the mesh bags when it's thawed and proceed from there.

You cannot just add the sugar called for in the recipe - you may need more or less depending on the sugar in your fruit. I generally add the amount called for (when I'm following a recipe), but what you want a is a sg of "around" 1.090 to start. So add sugar, stir until dissolved, wait an hour or so - test again until you gt it to that 1.090 on the hydrometer. I just use sugar in the must rather than simple sugar syrup - I don't want to dilute the juice.

Good luck!


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## meadmaker1 (May 17, 2018)

I think the first batch of juice got tossed
I agree the recipie seems a little thin.
As to watering down, I hold water back in the beginning for this reason.
I don't see anything to worry about in the recipe.
I personally would add 2/3 of the sugar and bump it up till I hit my target sg.
Most important to get some yeast and juice together in a bucket.
Some things can only be learned by trying it for yourself.


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## sour_grapes (May 17, 2018)

Brigitte said:


> Following



Oh, I am _reading_ this. But I am not quite _following_ it!


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## wildhair (May 17, 2018)

peaches9324 said:


> sorry I don’t have an answer for your question I have a question of my own I wish to ask you. What is the ph of the soil your growing in? I can’t get rhubarb to grow!


Rhubarb likes a sweeter soil ( ph 7 +), lots of manure, lots of sun & plenty of water. It grows best in loose & loamy soil, but I have a lot of clay and I just plant it like a rose bush. Dig a deep hole (18-24" both around and deep), fill it 1/2 with compost or rich dirt, mix the dirt from the hole with compost and put that around the plant. If you just have a root piece - plant it about 2"+ under the soil. I mulch mine to keep the roots cool and help the soil retain water in the summer. I pick off the dead & dying leaves all summer. In the fall, I toss some manure or fertilizer around the plant, cut off any remaining leaves and mulch it for the winter.


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## Wolfpup (May 17, 2018)

Hi Brigitte, thanks. But I take no credit. That plant has a life of its own. It was planted half heartedly 25 years ago and this is it what it's become. So maybe that's your secret. Plant it and forget it. There were a few years it even got mowed over in the early spring, as you can see it's kind of in the center of that portion of the yard, (we used to have a little shed beside it).

Hi Wildhair, to clarify some of your observations,

*Are you putting the chunks of rhubarb in the primary and covering with sugar OR are you freezing the rhubarb then pressing to extract the juice?*

As per Meadmaker (my consistent mentor) I put it in the freezer. Was going to take it out and put it in the bucket with the 12.5 lbs of sugar like the recipe calls for. Does it matter if its fresh or frozen?

*You added 5 t of potassium metabisulfite to how much liquid. You added enough for 80 gals.*

I added five 1/2 teaspoons to almost 3 liters of pure extracted juice. They were big 1/2's so your calculation is probably more correct. Oh my, 80 gallons. That would explain the immediate chemical reaction I saw. It turn an offish white immediately as I watched the potassium swirl thru the pink.

I then added 2 drops of hydrogen peroxide and swished it around for a couple of days. I had to toss it yesterday. It went completely clear, like water, with fluffy looking yellow sediment on the bottom. When I smelled it, it made my eyes tear and kind of hurt my lungs. Like very strong vinegar. Everything said as long as it smells good, keep it. This was anything but smell good. It smelled toxic.

*You added way to much potassium metabisulfite (k-meta). 5 gallon batch you only need 5 - 1/16 t or 1/4 t + 1/16 t (a rounded 1/4 t*

Yes, this batch is now history. Big time lesson learned. Thank you for your calculation. I'm not making a move until I have direction for each step this time.

I've always thought that it was the dyed blondes that gave us natural blondes a bad name. My actions are proving that theory incorrect.

*k-meta is to kill the wild yeast, sterilize a couple 5 gal buckets, pour the must in those, I would add the yeast in a day or 2. I would also add the calcium carbonate (precipitated chalk).*

All this, overload right now.

Following the recipe (we both had a copy of it - so cool), this is where I'm at:

13 lbs of frozen rhubarb, 1 pound of strawberries, 1/2 pound of raspberries (couldn't resist, they looked so good) and a big chuck of ginger.

A sterilized 8 or 10 gallon bucket. Not sure, it's pretty big, from the wine making store.

What do I do now? The recipe says:

2 Cut up rhubarb and put in primary fermentor.

3 Pour dry sugar over fruit to extract juice.

4 Cover with plastic sheet and allow to stand for 24 hours.


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## Wolfpup (May 17, 2018)

*I agree the recipie seems a little thin. *Trying to quote meadmaker here.


Both you guys (wildhair and meadmaker) said this. Should I go pick more?


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## wildhair (May 17, 2018)

OK, I didn't read where it got tossed - my points are for future reference then.
The gas you smelled was SO2 - sulfur dioxide - not a good thing for your lungs. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fast forward to Now -

It depends. If it were ME -

Option #1 - I would use the quantities you have to make a smaller batch - about 2 1/2 gal. Adding more rhubarb will make the strawberries and raspberries totally irrelevant. Add more strawberries & raspberries if anything.

Option #2 - To make 5 gallons - add *at least* another 12# of rhubarb & leave out the berries. I would freeze the strawberries and raspberries to use in a another batch of wine. You don't have enough to really add much flavor to the wine - they'll get "lost" in the rhubarb, especially if you make a 5 gallon batch.

As for "what to do now" - from my previous post -
_I freeze the washed and chopped rhubarb in 5# bags and *sprinkle* *pectic enzyme on it* before vacuum sealing it. I use at least 25-30# for a 5 gallon batch. I thaw it in the primary, pour it into the mesh bags when it's thawed and proceed from there.
_
Freezing fruit with the pectic enzyme will really bring the juice out when it's thawed. Freeze it solid - a couple days or so at least. Then thaw it, add your water, *1 Campden tablet per gal* (crush and dissolve it first) & the sugar & let it sit for a day covered with a towel. Squeeze the rhubarb bags, stir it all up and test the sg. Add more sugar or simple syrup if needed. Once you get that 1.090 reading - THEN add the rest of the ingredients EXCEPT the yeast. Stir it all up, check the ph. If it's less then 3 - add calcium carbonate @ 1/2 t per gallon to start. Wait about an hour, test ph again. If it's around 3.2 - 3.5 - you're good. Still low? Add another 1/2 t per gal, wait, test ph.
After 12 hrs +/- check the sg (around 1.090) and ph (3.2 - 3.5 ) again. If it's all good - add your yeast, cover with a towel and let the yeast do it's thing. 
If you don't have a ph meter - just taste it. If it burns at the back of your throat - it's probably too acidic.

I always dissolve the dry chemicals in a cup or so of the juice, then add them to the must and stir it well. 
Hope that helps !

btw - the writing definitely has more panache today! And I loved the self-deprecating blonde joke! 
LOL


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## meadmaker1 (May 17, 2018)

At least double or fill with other fruits. At 4-5 lbs per gallon for 2-3 gallons worth


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## Wolfpup (May 17, 2018)

Hi folks, another busy day. Long weekend coming up here and company's coming. The best laid plans shot to hell again.

Ok, I see what you both are saying here. Thank goodness that last chopped up batch of rhubarb hit the freezer, bowls and all. If the chores are done up early tomorrow, I will get another 13 lbs in the freezer. Hopefully some quiet time though out the weekend to get it in de-juicing or whatever we call it.

So with the 26 lbs of rhubarb, once its frozen (and I will put this batch in freezer bags, as you suggested, with pectin enzyme), when I take it out, probably a couple of days, do I put it in the bucket with the 12.5 pounds of sugar?


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## Wolfpup (May 17, 2018)

Oh wildhair, a sprinkle of pectin enzyme, how much will I need. On a 6 lb bag and 7 lb bag of the chopped rhubarb. Hubby is running into town in the morning, he has a list.

Was also wondering about another ingredient in the recipe, yeast nutrient. What is this and do I need it. Someone also mentioned "chalk". Is that all he asks for and how much of this do we need, if at all?


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## Brigitte (May 18, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> Oh, I am _reading_ this. But I am not quite _following_ it!



This is cracking me up[emoji12]. Best thread ever! You seem to be learning things pretty well for a new wine maker.


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## wildhair (May 18, 2018)

Brigitte said:


> This is cracking me up[emoji12]. Best thread ever! You seem to be learning things pretty well for a new wine maker.


You need to look up Shayne Edwards Super Spicy Ginger Wine thread - even more hilarious, imho.


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## wildhair (May 18, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Oh wildhair, a sprinkle of pectin enzyme, how much will I need. On a 6 lb bag and 7 lb bag of the chopped rhubarb. Hubby is running into town in the morning, he has a list.
> 
> Was also wondering about another ingredient in the recipe, yeast nutrient. What is this and do I need it. Someone also mentioned "chalk". Is that all he asks for and how much of this do we need, if at all?



RE: Pectic enzyme on fruit - amount not critical. Maybe a teaspoon, sprinkle it on the fruit in your bowl and stir the fruit (hand or spoon) then bag it & freeze it. Pectic enzyme does not add or subtract from the flavor of the wine and helps it clear. You can still add the amount called for in the recipe when preparing your must.

RE: precipitated chalk - (calcium carbonate). I add it to my rhubarb wine because of the oxalic acid in rhubarb. It's not _mandatory_ & some recipes don't even mention it. I made it the first time w/o it, the next time with it. I use it every time now. But it's good have on hand anyway for when you have a wine that's acidic. I had to add it my Dragon Blood because it was WAYYY to acidic. 

RE: yeast nutrient - as the name implies - it helps provide "proper nutrition" for our tiny friends - a balanced diet, as it were. There is also yeast energizer & Fermaid K. Read more here - 
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/feeding.asp

If hubby's going to town - a ph meter and or a Total Acid test kit are good to have in the tool chest.



Wolfpup said:


> So with the 26 lbs of rhubarb, once its frozen (and I will put this batch in freezer bags, as you suggested, with pectin enzyme), when I take it out, probably a couple of days, do I put it in the bucket with the 12.5 pounds of sugar?



The purpose of that step is to draw the juice out of the FRESH rhubarb. Freezing fruit with the pectic enzyme will really bring the juice out when it's thawed. Pour it into mesh bags once thawed, then .............................

From my previous post - 
Freeze it solid - a couple days or so at least. Then thaw it, add your water, *1 Campden tablet per gal* (crush and dissolve it first) & the sugar & let it sit for a day covered with a towel. 

Squeeze the rhubarb bags, stir it all up and test the sg. Add more sugar or simple syrup if needed. Once you get that 1.090 reading - THEN add the rest of the ingredients EXCEPT the yeast. 

Stir it all up, check the ph. If it's less then 3 - add calcium carbonate @ 1/2 t per gallon to start. Wait about an hour, test ph again. If it's around 3.2 - 3.5 - you're good. Still low? Add another 1/2 t per gal, wait, test ph.
After 12 hrs +/- check the sg (around 1.090) and ph (3.2 - 3.5 ) again. If it's all good - add your yeast, cover with a towel and let the yeast do it's thing. 
If you don't have a ph meter - just taste it. If it burns at the back of your throat - it's probably too acidic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's some light reading for you - 
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/starting.asp


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## Wolfpup (May 18, 2018)

Ahh, ok, Between this recipe, that I thought I would try to follow and these other methods, we have two very different things. Sorry for the confusion but repetition is a good thing, I get what you're saying now.

Just one last question before I go and get another whole batch of rhubarb, I was thinking about this recipe that last night (what the heck am I saying, I've read it over 50 times, I'm always thinking about this recipe). But this was just before dreamland, so it was keeping me up a bit. 

I chose it, it was the on list,, the recipe Kyle put up was close. Someone must have tried it and it worked. It did have 5 stars beside it. Then I got thinking about the 50 oz of white grape concentrate that I purchased for 26.00. Does this not account for a whole wack of fruit as well too? And I still need another box. This box is only 34 oz. The kind I got is called Global White Grape Concentrate.

And if it doesn't and I double this recipe with rhubarb do I have to double the concentrate as well.


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## wildhair (May 18, 2018)

Ok - not quite sure what you mean by "a whole wack of fruit" , but I'll take a whack at it. It looks like you're using the 2nd recipe in the doc I posted (or close to it). But if you notice - several others call for no white grape at all, but they use more rhubarb. 

This is where it starts to get "personal" - tastebud-wise. You're doubling the RHUBARB to increase the* rhubarb* flavor, not doubling the whole recipe. You could have as little or as much fruit in any given recipe, but you don't double ALL the ingredients. The white grape juice adds body and "feel" to the wine - so does adding more fruit. Which is why the recipe you are using was weak on rhubarb, substituting the grape to increase the body of the wine. The rhubarb taste will be lighter with 12.5# of rhubarb & the white grape will be a more major flavor component. Do you want a "white wine w/ a light rhubarb flavor", or a white wine that unmistakably says says - " I REALLY *LOVE* RHUBARB" ? 
25#+ will give you the latter, 12.5# and you get the former.

So short answer - no. don't double the white grape conc. or any of the other ingredients. I use Welches Frozen White Grape Juice Conc. in my wines - it's about $2.50 for 11.5 oz., so if you want to add the full 50 oz of white grape - get 2 cans of that for $5 to supplement the 34 oz. you already have.

btw - make sure you have added all the white grape juice AND your initial 12.5# of sugar when you test the sg. Always mix all your liquids and the sugar with the fruit, then *crush, dissolve and add the Campden tablets* (just 1tab per gal *or* 1/16 t k-meta per gal) - let it sit bout 12 hrs - *test the sg*. Add more sugar if needed to get the sg to 1.090 
Then add all your dry ingredients *EXCEPT THE YEAST- *(pectic enzyme, nutrient, acid blend, tannin, etc.) in a small glass of the must - mix them until dissolved, then ADD BACK INTO THE MUST and stir. This is when I test the ph and adjust it. 

12 hrs later - add the yeast, cover with a towel, stir a couple times a day and check the sg daily.


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## Wolfpup (May 18, 2018)

Ha ha, I see what you did there. Very tactfully "whack"ed away at my word to correct spelling. Awesome. Too funny.

Note: 1 wack = 1.5 boxes of concentrate. Translated to fruit… have no idea.

This explanation is great wildhair, makes total sense. And yes, while I do love the taste of rhubarb, I think I would like to follow a recipe (for a first try - well second, if you count the first flop) better.

Once this is brewing, if everything goes well, I will have something to use this massive plant for. Will start packing it away in the freezer with pectin for the next go round.

So today is shot, about 20 folks coming over this evening but tomorrow morning (depending on hangover) I will put the rhubarb, strawberries, raspberries and ginger in with 12.5 pounds of sugar.

Steps 2, 3 and 4.

2 Cut up rhubarb and put in primary fermentor.

3 Pour dry sugar over fruit to extract juice. *(Concentrate Here?)*

4 Cover with plastic sheet and allow to stand for 24 hours.


However, it doesn't say when to add the concentrate but step 9 says add remaining ingredients. It also says to add prepared yeast. I'm assuming (hoping) the concentrate is with the rhubarb in the beginning??


7 Put pulp in a straining bag (you can use a new laundered pair of panty hose) and add water and Campden tablets (to kill any "wild" yeasts) and dissolve well

8 Let stand for another 24 hours.

9 Add remaining ingredients including prepared yeast.* (or Concentrate Here)*

I hope this is simple and I add the concentrate with the rhubarb at the beginning?? Otherwise it doesn't really co-inside with your information on when to take the SG reading right?

Oh and just called hubby, he has already got the more expensive concentrate and is on his way home. I will remember the Welches for next time. Meadmaker mentioned that too but I figured since I was at the wine store at least I would get the right thing. That much smarter for next time.

Thank you sooo much for all your help.


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## wildhair (May 18, 2018)

I feel like the blind leading the blonde................
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Based on your comments - you are going with the Light Rhubarb, correct?

Your rhubarb is already frozen, so as it thaws the juice will be released. I would put the frozen rhubarb in your primary, go ahead and pour the sugar over it. Let it thaw that way - 12 hrs or so. 
Then add your water and* your concentrate and your other fruit to the primary. *
Add 1/16 t k-meta *OR* 1 Campden tablet per gallon. 
Let it sit 12 hrs. 

12 hrs later............
Bag your rhubarb, test the sg with your hydrometer - 1.080 - 1.090 is what you want. Add sugar if needed.
Got your sg just right? *Then* add all your dry ingredients EXCEPT THE YEAST- (pectic enzyme, nutrient, acid blend, tannin, etc.) in a small glass of the must - mix them until dissolved, then ADD BACK INTO THE MUST and stir. T*his is when I test the ph and adjust it.*

12 hrs later ............... NOW add the yeast, cover with a towel, stir a couple times a day and check the sg daily. Keep the temperature around 70 F +/- if you can. Some yeasts need to be hydrated by putting them in a couple ounces of warm (100 F) water for a few minutes. Others are sprinkled dry. READ THE PACKET - it will have specific instructions for that strain of yeast.

You'll catch on. Many of the steps are the same for most wines. 

Fruit & liquid & sugar and Campden tablet.
sit 12 hrs - test sg. Adjust
Add remaining ingredients
test ph - adjust if necessary.
Sit 12 hrs
Add yeast
Stir & test sg daily
rack into a secondary vessel when sg is around 1.02 or lower. 
Put in airlock, (the S-shaped thingy)
wait, taste, rack,
wait. taste, rack,
wait. etc., etc.

Then we get to bottling and that will be whole 'nother thread!

Happy brewing!


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## Wolfpup (May 19, 2018)

_*"I feel like the blind leading the blonde................"*_

OMG, that's hilarious! Simple truths are a very funny thing. Visions of a semi-retired guide dog come to mind. Your white cane is my life line right now.

*"Based on your comments - you are going with the Light Rhubarb, correct?"*

Yes, let's go with the light rhubarb for this one. Once this is on its way I plan to have at least 30 lbs (with pectin) in the freezer for the next batch.

*"Then add your water and your concentrate and your other fruit to the primary."*

Just one question, the strawberries, raspberries and ginger were chopped up and are good and frozen as well. Could I toss these in with the unthawing rhubarb and sugar?

Then 12 hours later add the 5 gallons of water and concentrate. At this time as well, add the campden.

As per your calculations - _5 - 1/16 t or 1/4 t + 1/16 t (a rounded 1/4 t is close enough_*)* Thank you for that.

Once this is done, I will test with the hydrometer and post what's happening. I won't add the yeast until I hear it's safe to do so.

Awesome, your guiding abilities shine brightly. This blonde can now safely cross the street avoiding a repetition of the past train wreck.


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## Wolfpup (May 19, 2018)

Ok, it was high noon. Put the frozen masses and 12.5 lbs of sugar in the bucket. Covered it with a towel.

The 12:00 noon time should be good to judge the 12 hour intervals. Deep breath....here we go.


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## wildhair (May 19, 2018)

_Just one question, the strawberries, raspberries and ginger were chopped up and are good and frozen as well. Could I toss these in with the unthawing rhubarb and sugar?_

*Yes.*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_Then 12 hours later add the 5 gallons of water and concentrate. At this time as well, add the campden._
*
Yes. This 12 hr. period is just to let the fruit thaw - the fruit should be thawed or nearly thawed in 12 hrs. *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_Once this is done, I will test with the hydrometer and post what's happening. 
_
*Not quite - *you can test it and see what the sg is, but I *wait* another *12 hrs after adding the Campden *(k-meta) for the fruit juices and sugar to blend -* THEN test the sg.

Bag your rhubarb & other fruit, test the sg with your hydrometer - 1.080 - 1.090 is what you want. Add sugar if needed.
Got your sg just right? 
NOW -  add all your dry ingredients EXCEPT THE YEAST- (pectic enzyme, nutrient, acid blend, tannin, etc.) in a small glass of the must - mix them until dissolved, then ADD BACK INTO THE MUST and stir. This is when I test the ph and adjust it.*

You need to wait at least *24 hrs after the Campden* tabs (or k-meta) treatment *before adding the yeast*.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will be unavailable next week as your yeast start growing & the brewing gets going - I'm sure someone smarter and wiser than me will jump in to help you should you need it. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS - Just to clarify - Campden tablets are just *pre-measured* potassium metabisulfite mixed with other fillers - use 1 tab per gal. of liquid. 
*Potassium metabisulfite* (often referred to as k-meta) is used at the rate of 1/16 t per gal. in the must. It's also used later in racking and bottling.

PPS - my wife has dyslexia and has difficulty reading and following directions - she gets things turned around pretty easy. So I have some practice in explaining things.


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## meadmaker1 (May 19, 2018)

Pretty good general recipe directions. 
Adjusting for ph might be a bit much for a first wine. 
But it should be fairly light do test strips could be used to test it.


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## wildhair (May 19, 2018)

True - didn't want to overload, but didn't want to omit either. I had some wines that were pretty acidic and rhubarb wine can be pretty acid. Ph is pretty important to end with a nice smooth drinkable wine, tho.


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## Stressbaby (May 20, 2018)

@wildhair has done a pretty good job in this thread of laying out the steps. I just wanted to mention that these steps are not unique to rhubarb; these are the generic steps for any country wine. Not hard and fast rules by the way, just guidelines.


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## Stressbaby (May 20, 2018)

PS: doing leave us hanging, we want to follow this wine through to the end!


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## Wolfpup (May 20, 2018)

Yes, Stressbaby and meadmaker, I agree. Wildhair has done an excellent job. As a complete neophyte, his thoroughness, repetition and patience are greatly appreciated. So many little nuances involved and a lot of work. Really nice to have the one on one guidance.

And no worries about leaving you hanging Stressbaby. I'm not going anywhere (unlike wildhair - how dare he leave me!. A week, hmmm. Does that start from yesterday or today?) and I plan on seeking direction for each move.

Just stirred the thick, gooey slurry. When cleaning the spoon, I took a little taste. OMG, my taste buds danced. It’s the neatest flavor ever. Oh boy, I sure hope this turns into wine.

A little over 6 hours and I will bag the fruit, add the water and add *1/4 of a tsp (total)* of that campden stuff.

Hubby got the bag at the wine store but they were in bulk, open to the air, on a shelf. Should I wash this bag ahead of time or should it be good to go.

Also this sugary mass is pretty thick. Is there an easy way to get the fruit into the bag or is it just scoop and fill? I think I need another bucket for the bagging process.


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## Wolfpup (May 20, 2018)

Oh gosh, here I go again, where's my head at. 12 hours, not 24. Was going to wait till noon today. There are still icy spots though, broke them up earlier.

Sending hubby to town for another bucket. This bucket is 1/2 full of juice and fruit, no way it's going to hold 5 gallons of water. Can it be halfed into 2 buckets or should he try and find a really big bucket.


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## meadmaker1 (May 20, 2018)

Of course it's too late to put the bag in place first, but the extra bucket thing is spot on.
The gasket out of a lid for a 5 gallon bucket makes a good rubber band

I am fond of these 

I have a few of them for honey but really only use one that I refill with smaller more manageable buckets


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## meadmaker1 (May 20, 2018)

Many folks will refer to their brute. This is a generic ,but a small food grade " trash can" for primary works well for ending up with a full 5 or 6 gallon secondary.


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## wildhair (May 20, 2018)

*Let's go last -> first, shall we?*

_Sending hubby to town for another bucket. This bucket is 1/2 full of juice and fruit, no way it's going to hold 5 gallons of water. Can it be halfed into 2 buckets or should he try and find a really big bucket.
_
*I have an 8 gallon plastic primary fermenter - that would be just what hubby needs to get. *Because you also need room for the foam, you'll discover. I have used 2 buckets to ferment, but I always mixed it up together, then separated into 2 6 gal. buckets and just used 2 packets of yeast. You have to be sure to do the same steps and add the same amount of additives for each. * Just get the big, 8 gal fermenter - you'll need it again.
*
_Also this sugary mass is pretty thick. Is there an easy way to get the fruit into the bag or is it just scoop and fill? I think I need another bucket for the bagging process._*

I put my mesh bag in a tall, plastic container - then use a canning ladle to scoop the fruit and fill it. A wide mouth canning funnel would also be helpful. I've also use a 2 qt measuring cup and scooped it out. Have hubby hold the bag (inside the new fermenter) while you pour the fruit into it. 
*
_Hubby got the bag at the wine store but they were in bulk, open to the air, on a shelf. Should I wash this bag ahead of time or should it be good to go.
_
*I'd rinse it hot water, but the "campden stuff" will kill any harmful bacteria at this stage. Make sure you spritz or soak all your utensils with a sterilizing solution. Spoons, buckets, scoops, ladles, hydrometer & the hydrometer tube, thermometer, your hands, etc., etc. - all should be rinsed with a sterilizing solution. Anything that touches the wine should be sterile from this point forward.
*
_.......how dare he leave me!. A week, hmmm. Does that start from yesterday or today?)_

*It starts on Tues. very, very early*_.  
_
*When I started this - the folks on this site were extremely helpful clarifying the steps and fixing my "stuff- ups"*_._* Like Stressbaby said - the steps are all very similar for country wines so as you go along, the steps and the "why" of each step will become much clearer and more familiar. It's a long learning curve - I'm glad I can help and pass along some of what I've learned.

*


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## wildhair (May 20, 2018)

Good idea on the "trash" can for a primary. Wash it and sterilize it and use it only for wine - excellent!


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## Wolfpup (May 20, 2018)

Awesome visuals meadmaker. Had hubby take a look and he will see what he can find. I told him BIG. The 8 gallon sounds perfect wildhair. 

And thank you for that tip. Have the meshy bag soaking in boiling water. Once it cools will toss it in the dryer. Then spread it over the (hopefully) 8 gallon bucket that he finds on this Sunday. We will sterilize our hands and transfer the fruit with a sterilized measuring cup.

PS... nice to see you still here wildhair. Was panicking just a little.


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## meadmaker1 (May 20, 2018)

The supply store will have them. I got mine at a cash and carry, wholesale to the public food service store.


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## Wolfpup (May 20, 2018)

Ok, the juice, water, concentrate and potassium stuff is all resting in a big brute type garbage can, with the fruit in there as well, in a mesh bag. Boy that was messy job. Sticky, sticky.

Strange again, the minute I added the potassium stuff (just a 1/4 tsp, a little rounded) it went from the beautiful rich pink color to a browny yellow immediately. It didn't turn white this time though.

And guys, hubby wasn't able to find any yeast nutrient. He didn't get it last time so was going to pick it up today. No wine shops open and probably not tomorrow either being a holiday up here. I have the yeast (Lalvin EC 1118). Is the starter absolutely necessary or can I try with the yeast I have?

Called a neighbor, she used to make wine, and asked if she had any. She didn't, its been many years but she said, "Rhubarb… don't be surprised if it starts fermenting on its own." Of course I said, no, no, I put this potassium stuff in there to stop that". Then she said, just get your yeast working a few hours ahead of time, throw it in and don't worry about a thing.

Well I am worried but also caught between a bit of a rock and a hard place. So I guess a couple of things. This yellow color is so disappointing and if the hydrometer reads right in the morning, is it ok to put just the package of yeast in?


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## meadmaker1 (May 20, 2018)

Loosing the pink is standard. Yeast neutreant can wait. 
You can start a yeast starter or wait to hydrate and pitch tomorrow 
1118 is pretty bullet proof yeast. 
Get neutreant when you can.


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## wildhair (May 20, 2018)




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## Wolfpup (May 20, 2018)

Oh what a relief, almost cried when I saw that. Losing pink is standard and 1118 is bullet proof. 

Thank you meadmaker. Will take the reading in the morning and see where we go from there.


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## Brigitte (May 21, 2018)

wildhair said:


> This is almost as funny as the Super Spicy Ginger wine thread, but without the panache of the Aussie's writing style. LOL
> 
> I make Rhubarb wine every year. I'm drinking some now, actually. I need at LEAST 4# per gallon - 20# min. for a 5 gal batch. I chop it and freeze it first. Here's a couple of recipes to get you going.



I read most of that thread on the ginger wine. Lol. He’s quite a talented writer. Thanks for telling me about it!


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

You can add the pink back later, if you want. A few drops of red food coloring - POOF - it's pink again!


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

Ok this is what it's reading this morning. I don't know which one to read and it doesn't look anything like the 1.090 - 1.095 that I should be seeing, can someone please tell me what to do now. 

Meadmaker, you said to add sugar, can you tell me how much?


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

OMG, just went to read the directions on the hydrometer (the second one that hubby bought) and it's called a Proof and Tralles Hydrometer. Very specifically says: *This hydrometer is for distilled alcohol only. It cannot be used for beer, wine or any other fermented beverage. 
*
OMG, OMG. Can I just punch him. Would that be considered domestic abuse. And if I'm thinking about it is that considered premeditated. OMG. What the heck do I do now?

Never mind, he corrected me, it's the second one I bought. Figures. OMG. Why would she sell me this? She knew I was making wine.


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

First - it should not be leaning against the side of the tube - it needs to be "free" floating - not hitting the bottom or the sides. You need to get the tube plumb to get an accurate reading. The hydrometer in your pic looks backwards to me - mine has the 1.000 at the TOP and the "90" near the bottom - similar to this - 








You end up here - 



You said it was "sweet and sticky" - so something is not right here.
See if you can get the hydrometer to float free of the walls and post a pic.


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

OK - your second post explained my confusion.


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

I've made a few phone calls and a neighbor has posted it on our community website. We will find a proper hydrometer today. OMG.


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

Right tool for the right job - some times nothing else will work. And just and fyi - I'd get a plastic tube for the hydrometer. It doesn't take much to break them. 

You might want to contact the friends that gave you the "big glass bottle like thingy" (a.k.a. - a carboy) ;-) He/she might have a wine hydrometer.


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

Yes, I've called them as well. They got rid of all their equipment, they don't have one. 

I feel totally defeated. Hubby is trying to keep spirits high. How dare I even thought of abusing him. Such a wonderful man.

He says either this is going to be the best wine ever or we'll just have to try again.

I feel soooo blonde... it's going to take a community to get me thru this. OMG


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

LOL You'll be fine. Take a breath. Keep the towel on it - it'll be OK.


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

The neighbor lady is pretty funny. Thank gawd! She had me laughing.

She said….When I used to make wine, it was creek water (we are currently on a health department boil water advisory - no brushing teeth with it, washing vegetables, etc, so everything is being done with bottled water - you can imagine that challenge as well), none of these toxic water concerns and if the yeast didn't work we just adjusted things to make it ferment. None of these fancy testers and boy we made some good wine. Just get your yeast going and go for it.

I had to thank her for the history but it sounds like it's done a little differently these days. She said either way, its going to be a fine batch.

Thank you wildhair and thank goodness for family and friends. Gosh you try and do something new and well…. 

Ok, having a cup of coffee and patiently waiting for a proper hydrometer to fall out of the sky…


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## Kandy (May 21, 2018)

wildhair, 

I am planning on starting a rhubarb wine soon and I want it to be, as you stated "white wine that unmistakably says - " I REALLY *LOVE* RHUBARB" ?" I have two different recipes, would you be willing to post yours that has heavy rhubarb flavor? Please?


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

Sure - when I get back. I'll look thru my notes and see what corrections/changes/substitutions/mistakes I made. 

For the record - I thought I had really messed up my first batch of Dragon's Blood. Thanks to some ideas from the folks here, doing some reading on various sites - I was not only able to salvage it, but my wife says -"I love it - make it just like this next time". 
Sooooooo ...... I have to try and repeat my mistakes to do that. 
The moral of the story - Take notes, because even your mess ups can produce good results sometimes.


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## Kandy (May 21, 2018)

wildhair said:


> Sure - when I get back. I'll look thru my notes and see what corrections/changes/substitutions/mistakes I made.
> 
> For the record - I thought I had really messed up my first batch of Dragon's Blood. Thanks to some ideas from the folks here, doing some reading on various sites - I was not only able to salvage it, but my wife says -"I love it - make it just like this next time".
> Sooooooo ...... I have to try and repeat my mistakes to do that.
> The moral of the story - Take notes, because even your mess ups can produce good results sometimes.



Thank you in advance. I have a batch of DragonBlood (raspberry) on the shelf clearing as we speak. Beautiful color, I hope it has a fabulous taste!


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

Hey guys, Bob is in town looking everywhere, nothing so far, but there is a honeymaker here with a refractometer. Says it has a brix reader that is excellent for measuring sugar. Will this do to start or does it have to be the SG?


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

I'm not familiar with the Brix scale - it's on my hydrometer , but I don't really use it. It looks like 21.5 Brix is close to 1.090 sg.


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## meadmaker1 (May 21, 2018)

Them merit badges just keep coming. 
We all get them and the wine still gets made.


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## meadmaker1 (May 21, 2018)

Brix should work to start. But not after yeast.


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

Ok guys, just got off the phone with the honey-maker (award winning apparently) and he's an old wine maker from way back. When I misused the term "mead" instead of "must", he said whoa, whoa, back up here. Mead is with honey... blah blah blah. What a wealth of information this man was. He did say his honey reader would not work with wine.

He said if you followed the recipe, don't worry about the reading right now, make sure the must is at at least 70 degrees, which it is, and get your yeast in there. The reading isn't that important at this stage. Get you meter tomorrow, get the one with the 3 different readings you need, blah blah blah.

I did ask if he has honey for sale right now and he's just bottling a bunch and has invited me to come up in a couple of days. We discussed the next batch of rhubarb wine with honey. Award winning honey and blonde blunders might make some kind of "special" wine. OMG.

So, I called hubby, his search has ended for today, he's to buy himself something special for dinner and come home.

I put the yeast in 2 oz of 104 degree water and poured it in the must. Gave it a little stir, put the cheese cloth back over it and am finally breathing normal and relaxing.

Oh boy, this wine making business is not for the feint of heart.


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

LOL When I started down this path, I thought "how hard can wine making be? Sugar, fruit & the yeast do all the work. It's been done for centuries, right?" HA! 
Then I learned and entirely new foreign language, bought tools I never knew even existed, chemicals I never heard of and found books & places and people on the Internet that had more information than I could absorb. I'm still absorbing. And learning. And experimenting. And that's part of the fun of it.

That - and drinking a bottle of Apple-Cinnamon wine you made with own 2 hands. And all that stuff you bought! 

Cheers!


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

I'm gonna miss all the fermenting Q's that are just about to start! Maybe ...........Wednesday?


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

You know, just sitting here thinking, sometimes the universe does work in some very mysterious ways. A couple of weeks back when I first posted about this I was wondering about honey and how much to use and thinking what kind would I buy.

Now today, not only has the day been filled with wine talk in our small rural community, but I have been put in contact with a honey maker that knows about wine making.

This batch may not make it thru all my blunders, despite the incredible advice I am getting from you wonderful folks, but I now also have some nice resources for the next batch.


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

Ha ha wildhair, you have been here! Very well said. 



wildhair said:


> I'm gonna miss all the fermenting Q's that are just about to start! Maybe ...........Wednesday?



And this, just give it a couple of hours, I've already checked on it, not much action yet. Should there be?


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## wildhair (May 21, 2018)

LOL No, not yet. It's sort like getting pregnant - not much apparent change in the beginning...............but just you wait!


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## Wolfpup (May 21, 2018)

Aha! Sitting in front the brute, twiddling thumbs, big grin! Waiting for action to start!


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## meadmaker1 (May 22, 2018)

Would have liked to known starting gravity
It gives us potential alcohol 
And answer a question. Next week when sg is stuck at 1.015, will it be stuck or has it maxed alcohol threshold for your chosen yeast. 
Not the end of the world to not be able to answer but, what will you change next batch if anything. How much will you change it if you don't know what it was in the last batch.
In the future when you break the next hydrometer pull a sample out to test later when you replace it. 
I 'll jinx myself but I bought 2 last time I broke 1. That has kept me from breaking another so far. Its been a couple years


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## Wolfpup (May 22, 2018)

Morning meadmaker, woo hoo, we have action in there. Question, should I be stirring it.

And your question. If it is stuck on a certain number am I still able to add sugar afterwards? And oh boy, just thinking now. I did pull some out to fill the wine stealer but it sat on the counter for over 5 hours, waiting for the proper hydrometer, so I ended up pouring it down the sink when I added the yeast. I should have kept that for when my new hydrometer comes today. Oh boy, that would be handy to know. 

The recipe says to let it ferment for 48 hours then remove the pulp bag and squeeze out the as much just as you can. Then stir twice a day for 3 - 4 days or when the hydrometer reading is 1.030. Will that tell the alcohol at that point?


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## sour_grapes (May 22, 2018)

Congrats on the lift-off!



Wolfpup said:


> Will that tell the alcohol at that point?



Only if you know the specific gravity when you started.


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## mainshipfred (May 22, 2018)

wildhair said:


> I'm not familiar with the Brix scale - it's on my hydrometer , but I don't really use it. It looks like 21.5 Brix is close to 1.090 sg.
> 
> 
> View attachment 48807



I just did some math. That potential ABV is if you take it to SG 1.000. If you go down to .995 it's 13.76, .992 it's 14.15. But remember that reading is potential alcohol.


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## meadmaker1 (May 22, 2018)

Alcohol will be a calculated estimate at this point, but we are more concerned with completeness of fermentation. 
If it stops short of 1.000 you may not need to add sugar. 
However ec 1118 will handle fairly high alcohol so if you added all the sugar in your recipie it should go dry and have plenty of power. 
We 'll deal with that in a couple months, if it needs delt with.


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## Wolfpup (May 23, 2018)

You are very calming meadmaker, thank you.

Sure am glad you told us about the bigger bucket. The stuff is BUSY in there. Looks like it's having a great time and the pink is coming back. Just a slight hue but it's pink! I don't know why that makes me happy but it does.

So at 4:00 this evening I will take the pulp bag out and squeeze the juice out. Then let it sit for 3 or 4 days. I wonder what would determine the 3 or the 4.

My new 3 way reading "wine" hydrometer is here, safe and sound. And yes, next trip to town for me, I will pick up a backup as well and hide it safely away so something like this doesn't happen again.

Love the action going on it there. I enjoy sitting in there and watching it. The house smells yeasty, a really good, fresh baked bread smell, like a bakery.


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## Wolfpup (May 23, 2018)

And not sure if you folks are into gardening but here's a few pictures that I promised. Took a bunch of small pictures, let's hope they fit this time. Darn, nope, there are 3 from the other side of garden that it's saying are too big. Oh well. Will try and get some different ones. Here's a few anyway.






It looks like it's going to be a bumper crop strawberry year. We'll see how many I can get in the freezer (with pectin) for a strawberry wine. Strawberry and plum, hmmm that sounds interesting.




I keep the more delicate lettuces, herbs and hot peppers on the deck. Last year we had some strangely spicy spaghetti squash. It was interesting; those bees were doing some crazy cross pollinating.


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## Wolfpup (May 23, 2018)

And here's the rhubarb plant today, in all it's glory, just producing away. I always remove the seed flowers, god forbid It makes another plant.

Going to get a bunch in the freezer today for the next batch of wine.


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## Wolfpup (May 23, 2018)

Here's what the bubbling bucket looks like this morning, and I just stirred about 1/2 hour ago.






Don't know what the alcohol is but got a bit on my hand and tasted it, its pretty yummy.


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## wildhair (May 25, 2018)

Looks like it's all bubbling away like it's supposed to. Seems you did just fine without me. 

Very nice garden. Here's a couple shots of PART of the vegie garden. Apple, cherry, black raspberries, passion fruit, etc - not included. I also keep a lot of my herbs in pots - many survive the WI winter inside and I've had some plants for over 5 years.


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## Wolfpup (May 25, 2018)

Wow Wildhair, your garden is amazing! Holy cow.

Maybe next year, we are looking at a more sectional type as well. A lot of work for hubby but he has an few ideas. Gonna show him yours. That looks totally accessible and very well spaced out. Nice.

Yes, totally hear you on the sensitive plants. I have a pomegranate tree that goes downstairs in the winter as well. The other fruit trees are pretty established and then there's an ancient plum that is a mass producer too.

In the wine department, are you able to see where I'm at. Took these pics this morning.







PS... you were missed.


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## meadmaker1 (May 25, 2018)

When did you pitch the yeast?
You are between 1.092 and 1.093.
How much sugar did you add.


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## Wolfpup (May 26, 2018)

The yeast was put in on Monday evening around 5:00 and I put in 12.5 lbs of sugar. Can you tell me what 1.092 and 1.093 means? Today is the 3rd day of the fruit bag being removed.

It's still a little fuzzy in the bucket, not the bubbling lava type thing it was doing a couple of days ago.


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## meadmaker1 (May 26, 2018)

1.092 is your specific gravity. The gravity of water is 1.000. The sugar and fruit are heavier than water so they cause the hydrometer to float higher in the solution. As alcohols is formed it will sink.
Your starting gravity couldn't have been much higher, which means your ferment is going slow. 
But no worries, there are reasons for going slow on purpose, other reasons for faster. 
What temperature is your must at. I'm guessing cool 60-65 degrees. 
I ran the numbers on your recipe, correct me if I'm wrong. But you added 5 gallons of water and 2 ish liters of rhubarb juice.


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## Wolfpup (May 26, 2018)

Sorry, not sure how much rhubarb (et al) juice there was to begin with as I didn't measure it this time. There was about half of a 30 liter bucket though. So complete ball park, maybe 10 - 15 liters of juice.

All the frozen fruit originally went in with 12.5 of sugar for 24 hours this time and it created a whole bunch of juice. Then I added the 5 gallons of water.

It feels hot in the big bucket when I take the lid off. This is what the temperature is saying. It's a wine thermometer. The red lines don't move but the blue one does.


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## meadmaker1 (May 26, 2018)

The s.g. of the juice must be higher than I expect. 
Take the hydrometer reading again. 
Try to read it before the little bubbles start forming on it. 
But any way about it, it's working. Give it a good stir a couple times a day for the next few days and take a reading every day or to to track progress. Progress being , the hydrometer gradually sinking to just below the 1.000 mark. 
I expect that by next week end it will be close.


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## Wolfpup (May 26, 2018)

Ok, I will go do another reading today and show it to you. The recipe says:

*11. In 3 or 4 days (or when the hydrometer reading is 1.030 or lower), siphon into a five-gallon glass jug or carboy and attach a fermentation lock.*

This evening will be day 3. I will go get that reading.


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## Wolfpup (May 26, 2018)

Still not sure which one to read but here are the numbers. 

Ha ha, so protective of this hydrometer. Sanitized, back in it's case and in the soft towel drawer. No one touches my hydrometer.


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## meadmaker1 (May 26, 2018)

You should have plenty of wine to fill your 6.5 gallon carboy with some extra.
Now is a good time to collect smaller jugs to put the extra in.
This extra is idea for topping up after future rackings.
Each time you rack you will leave some behind, you will need to make up the difference to keep head space to a minimum. Having an assortment of small containers now will provide quick mini carboys for left overs till they are needed.
You won't be to 1.030 for a few more days.


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## meadmaker1 (May 26, 2018)

Lots better.


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## meadmaker1 (May 26, 2018)

1.062. 
Giving it a tap on top and reading quickly helps take the tiny bubbles out of play.


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## Wolfpup (May 26, 2018)

Ok, a few more days hey, I wonder why its so slow. But that's ok if you say its ok.

And yes, interesting enough, mentioned to hubby the other day that we need one of those little moonshine type bottles. We're going to have more than the one carboy. We have the two bigger ones that were given to us but that seems like overkill for what will be left over.

Good to know about the top up. We will be on the hunt for the smaller jug.

Ahhh, tap and read, ok will try that next time. I waited, and waited, and waited.... he said wait till the bubbles go. Next time.


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## meadmaker1 (May 26, 2018)

This pic shows sg


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## Wolfpup (May 26, 2018)

Ahh, ok, thank you. 

I will take "one" picture tomorrow to see where we're at. 

You're awesome meadmaker, thank you. It really is comforting having your expertise to rely on.


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## meadmaker1 (May 26, 2018)

You can also shake the " " out of the sample before you put the hydrometer into it. 
Less bubbles less effect.


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## wildhair (May 26, 2018)

I give it a good spin - it helps fling the bubbles off. It also helps to pour the sample thru a tea strainer to remove the solids & get a better "float".


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## Wolfpup (May 27, 2018)

Awesome tips guys. Did not take as long to get a reading today, Gave it a "shimmy" shake, tapped it and swish, here we go. It looks like the numbers are getting smaller.


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## wildhair (May 27, 2018)

That's what should be happening. Looks like 1.034......ish. Looking good. It will start to slow down - probably - as it gets closer to the 1.000. Keep stirring and checking daily with the hydrometer. Keep everything that touches the wine clean and sanitized.


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## Wolfpup (May 27, 2018)

Nice, thank you for the accurate reading wildhair, so this next step…

*12. In 3 or 4 days (or when the hydrometer reading is 1.030 or lower), siphon into a five-gallon glass jug or carboy and attach a fermentation lock.*

Does this mean it's ready..ish to put in the carboy? 1.034 and 1.030, is there a lot of difference. Or do you guys have better guidelines, like should it be at the 1.000?

And sorry for the untimely responses, we're staining one mile of fence (well not really but it sure feels like it - been at it all weekend and only 1/2 way done) in 100 degree weather, well no… its only 95 degrees - 35 Celsius (in the shade and we're in the sun).

But no more today until the sun goes down. Getting a weird head ache. Think my brain is boiling and we blondes don't need none of that.

And yes, even though my kitchen looks a bit of a mess in that last pic, I'm fanatical about sanitizing everything before it goes in the bucket and I clean everything after it's done. No one moves for fear of making a possible piece hair or dust float around. Overkill, maybe, but I know how important it is. Thank you for reinforcing that.


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## wildhair (May 27, 2018)

That's the recommendation. I think most folks look at about 1.020 as the point where you put it in the carboy. As fermentation slows down, so does the "off-gassing" which protects the wine from an invasion of the bacterium......and other such invisible nasties. Somehow, I never seem to have the time to gt it in the secondary until it's damn near dry - .990. Never had anything go funky yet. 

But - my busy schedule (or laziness) aside - you should get the carboy washed and sanitized, make sure you have a bung that fits with a hole for the airlock, make sure you have a COUPLE airlocks and couple clean wine bottles, glass jugs, etc - in case you have more wine than you have carboy. You'll need bungs for those, too.

And a long piece of food grade tubing for a siphon - 6 - 8' or so. I have several different sizes, the 1/2" or 3/8" tubing are great for general purpose. There are some siphoning gadgets out there - I just do it the old-fashioned way. 

I just racked my berry wines and the rhubarb wine for the 3rd time - coming along very nicely. Sg is .994 - very nice rhubarb flavor, a soft golden orange color and no need to sweeten. Not quite clear - so I'll give it couple months, if it hasn't cleared on it's own - then it's Sparkaloid time! I looked at the "recipe" - such as it is. Not sure you could duplicate it, but I'll see if I can get it into typed form instead of my scribble. I added homemade rhubarb sauce to mine to boost the rhubarb flavor........

Get your stuff together and prepare to suck.............


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## meadmaker1 (May 27, 2018)

Taking things a bit far covers you for when you get lazy. 
You could probably
I think most wait till they get closer to 1.010 or 1.000 because it's easier to stir the bubbles out, and in some cases stir the fruit pulp/skins back in.


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## meadmaker1 (May 27, 2018)

Or what he said


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## wildhair (May 27, 2018)

LOL Too much info? She mentioned she was having strange headaches - I don't want her head to explode.


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## Wolfpup (May 27, 2018)

Ok, let's see:

*"you should get the carboy washed and sanitized, make sure you have a bung that fits with a hole for the airlock"*

Check. All clean and sanitized. Will give it an extra spritzer tonight as it's been sitting for a week. And two additional 5 gallon carboys with bungs. Hubby is going to see if he can get a little one tomorrow after work.

*"make sure you have a COUPLE airlocks and couple clean wine bottles, glass jugs, etc - "*

Check. The two additional if immediately needed tomorrow morning. They both have airlocks and will clean them as well tonight.

*"a long piece of food grade tubing for a siphon - 6 - 8' or so"*

Check. Check. Some really cool siphoning stuff with this equipment kit. Has a little thing on the bottom of the "rod" that stops the pulpy stuff from getting siphoned but lets the juice thru.

*"Sg is .994" and "then it's Sparkaloid time!"*

Ha ha, learning the Winese language. Only two things I didn't understand here. We'll get there in a few lessons, I'm sure.

Ha, ha love this…. "*Get your stuff together and prepare to suck............."*

Will practice the pucker power this evening. Bob's going to be a hap... never mind.

So other than the little pirate jug, we're good to go.

And perfect meadmaker, that's kind of what you've been saying all along and why I was questioning the recipe. I will go with what you say.

By the way it seems to be going down, maybe tomorrow morning?

I will take the reading in the morning and post it for you guys' expertise.

*"LOL Too much info? She mentioned she was having strange headaches - I don't want her head to explode."*

OMG, Ha ha ha…too funny. So thoughtful, thank you for the kind consideration.


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## wildhair (May 27, 2018)

You will need some *smaller containers* so that you can fill them up and leave very little head space. Wine bottles work good, but you'll need #3 bungs for them (pretty sure that's the #). I have some 1L plastic bottles - but I have larger bungs for those. I have some 1.5 L wine bottles, some gallon jugs, some 4L jugs, some 375 ml bottles - *match the bottle size *to the amount of liquid left over.

Point is - you don't want 1 full 5 gal carboy and 1 that's only 1/2 full. You need a container(s) that you can fill nearly to the top - then put an airlock in it. Minimal air space in the carboy (head room) to prevent oxidation .

Pic is sg my rhubarb wine at .994. Sparkaloid is a clarifying agent. There are a couple different ones - a topic for another day.


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## meadmaker1 (May 27, 2018)

Recipes are guide lines. 
Your notes are the fine points that help you adjust future batches
The recipie provides a check list and a basic plan.
Things like racking for me happen when the wine gets to..... Saturday cuz I have time or Wednesday cuz it's a crappy tv night ect. As long as I'm near those numbers.
But having a starting place and enough of the things I'll need wether use them all or not. 
As far as sparkaliod, I bought some but never used it. Gravity works pretty well, so far. 
I suppose it might speed things up. I just don't have a need to speed clear wine I'm going to leave in a carboy to age anyway.


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## Wolfpup (May 27, 2018)

Totally awesome information. I get it now. Just like the right tool, as you say, you need the right bottle to fit the liquid. Do they really have airlocks for wine and pop bottles, cool. 

And wow, that's pretty clear rhubarb wine wildhair. Is that the way this one should be turning out too or is that because of the sparkaloid?.

Oh, and hubby had a question about adding more sugar. It isn't that sweet, fruity taste any longer, pretty bland actually. And meadmaker, you mentioned adjusting the sugar too, is that going to be necessary or is that later?


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## meadmaker1 (May 27, 2018)

Balloons work for air lock on odd sizes
Poke a hole in one with a pin and put it over the top upside down 
Sweetening comes later


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## opus345 (May 27, 2018)

Wolfpup,

Make sure to take notes on the recipe, the steps, and the results. It helps on the next batch.

Here is link to one of my Dragon's Blood logs: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1b0y3apCRbEEZVvvHwI7fOym1b9WbrzFVf5LJ5jFI3sI

Take care.


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## Wolfpup (May 27, 2018)

Ahhh, we just had a bit of a discussion about your post. He said, I have a few wine bottles stored away, we could use those, and I said yes, but we need the bungs with the air releasers. He said something about a clamp on top and I said no no, they have to be the special rubber tops that fit the air bubble thing.

It's ok, he's learning too but I felt smarter for a minute. Fine, take that all away, I will go tell him his bottles are fine and about the balloons.

Ok and check on the sugar. That comes later.


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## Wolfpup (May 27, 2018)

opus345 said:


> Wolfpup,
> 
> Make sure to take notes on the recipe, the steps, and the results. It helps on the next batch.
> 
> ...



Nice Opus, all on excel, now that's a spread sheet app I know. I've got a bunch of notes and dates in a small book on my desk here. But I see that includes when things are sanitized, etc. Great tip.

If all goes well, I will set up a spread sheet for future and transpose this information in there too.

And hey, that looks like a good recipe. I've been encouraged to try this Dragon's Blood. Maybe can have two on the go, a pure rhubarb and a dragon's blood.

Thank you Opus.


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## wildhair (May 27, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> And wow, that's pretty clear rhubarb wine wildhair. Is that the way this one should be turning out too or is that because of the sparkaloid?
> Oh, and hubby had a question about adding more sugar. It isn't that sweet, fruity taste any longer, pretty bland actually.



No, so far it's clearing on it's own. I don't have the patience of Meadmaker. Rhubarb is one of the wines that is good to drink right away - it doesn't need bulk aging. So if it hasn't cleared in a few months, I'll help it along. 

Some of the fruity taste will come back once it's done fermenting & if you back sweeten (adding sweetener post-ferment). This is why I use more rhubarb in the beginning - to keep that rhubarb flavor to the bottle.

.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> I made a Rhubarb wine last year. The thing you really need to do is neutralise the high level of oxalic acid in the juice. My juice had a pH of 2. I bought myself a small jar of calcium carbonate and slowly added it to the juice. Brought the juice back to neutral then re-acidified with acid blend to bring it back into the range pH 3.5 to 3.9 . *Oxalic acid has a very sharp and unpleasant taste hence the reason why you need to neutralise it. Also the reason why the French leave their Rhubarb Wine to mature for five to seven years.* It is very much a challenge worth undertaking. Most other fruit wines are not as tricky as this stuff.



I remembered this post when you said you could drink it fairly quickly. I sure like your take on it a lot better. Right away as compared to 7 years. Also, we're not French, nothing sophisticated about our pallets, at this point.

However, based on this informative post, we also got some of this calcium carbonate. Its sitting here, have no idea what to do with it.

And yes, totally hear you about the full rhubarb taste. That will be the next batch. Chopping and freezing for the next batch is in progress.


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## Venatorscribe (May 28, 2018)

Hi again. The acidity of the juice for me was pH 2. Hence the need for neutralising the oxalic acid. Oxalic acid won't kill you, it has an very astringent mouth feel . if you taste it you'll know what I mean. I see that you are adding orange juice to your mix. I suppose that might cover up the oxalic. If you were to google 'French Rhubarb Wine’, you'll find a reference to a commercial producer of rhubarb wine in France. They mention on that web page that these wines are extremely delectable after 5 to 7 years. Apparently it is difficult to distinguish rhubarb from grape wine after such a period. I made a rhubarb wine this time last year. It is definitely not drinkable at this point. Although I have made an Aperol wine cocktail - blending Quince wine(60%), Rose Petal wine(35%) and Rhubarb wine(5%). For the spritz component I used a Sparkling Pear Cuvée(pears from my trees). I won myself a little prize with this wine cocktail at our local wild food festival. The rhubarb added the necessary tartness.


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## Stressbaby (May 28, 2018)

Following along here...good read...

I believe this is the recipe, is that correct? 
So no pH/acid adjustments so far?


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## wildhair (May 28, 2018)

Alrighty then - on the calcium carbonate & how to use it. If you go back to *post #61 on page 4* - I mentioned testing the ph BEFORE adding the yeast. Here's the highlight - 

_Once you get that 1.090 reading - THEN add the rest of the ingredients EXCEPT the yeast. *Stir it all up, check the ph.* *If it's less then 3 - add calcium carbonate @ 1/2 t per gallon to start. * Wait about an hour, test ph again. If it's around 3.2 - 3.5 - you're good. Still low? Add another 1/2 t per gal, wait, test ph.
After 12 hrs +/- check the sg (around 1.090) and ph (3.2 - 3.5 ) again. If it's all good - add your yeast, cover with a towel and let the yeast do it's thing. 
If you don't have a ph meter - just taste it. If it burns at the back of your throat - it's probably too acidic._

Attached is a collection of info from various sites focused on acidity - testing, increasing or reducing. You will need to get a ph meter. I have an acid testing kit, but personally - I find the ph meter easier to use and it tells me what I need to know. Also - I don't know that acid test kits detect oxalic acid. 

I don't have my notes in front of me, but I recall the ph of my rhubarb was in the 2's as well. I used calcium carbonate to raise the # to about 3.2-ish before adding yeast. It is easier to adjust the ph of the must (the fruit/sugar mix) BEFORE fermentation than after. But I've done it both ways. So - imho - get a ph meter, learn to use it - you won't regret it.



Wolfpup said:


> I remembered this post when you said you could drink it fairly quickly. I sure like your take on it a lot better. Right away as compared to 7 years. Also, we're not French, nothing sophisticated about our pallets, at this point.
> 
> *However, based on this informative post, we also got some of this calcium carbonate. Its sitting here, have no idea what to do with it.*
> 
> And yes, totally hear you about the full rhubarb taste. That will be the next batch. Chopping and freezing for the next batch is in progress.


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## wildhair (May 28, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> Hi again. The acidity of the juice for me was pH 2. Hence the need for neutralizing the oxalic acid. Oxalic acid won't kill you, it has an very astringent mouth feel . if you taste it you'll know what I mean. I see that you are adding orange juice to your mix. I suppose that might cover up the oxalic. If you were to google 'French Rhubarb Wine’, you'll find a reference to a commercial producer of rhubarb wine in France. They mention on that web page that these wines are extremely delectable after 5 to 7 years. Apparently it is difficult to distinguish rhubarb from grape wine after such a period. I made a rhubarb wine this time last year. It is definitely not drinkable at this point. Although I have made an Aperol wine cocktail - blending Quince wine(60%), Rose Petal wine(35%) and Rhubarb wine(5%). For the spritz component I used a Sparkling Pear Cuvée(pears from my trees). I won myself a little prize with this wine cocktail at our local wild food festival. The rhubarb added the necessary tartness.



Not to contradict one who obviously has far more experience in winemaking, a much more sophisticated pallet than I AND the patience of a saint - but the rhubarb wine I racked yesterday was very drinkable. It was smooth, lightly sweet with full rhubarb taste & a dry finish. A little cloudy, but then so is ale. LOL All my 2017 Rhubarb Wine is but a memory - I will concede the last bottle was the smoothest. Waiting 5-7 years, tho? Not likely to happen in my house. 

A couple other points - oxalic acid in high quantities can form kidney stones. Not fatal in the amounts found in food, but like most things - too much is not good. In rhubarb - particularly the BIG stalks - oxalic acid is_ likely_ the taste that some people find disagreeable. I try to pick the reddest and smaller stalks for rhubarb recipes - wine, jam and pie. They are tart & more tender - but still have that wonderful rhubarb flavor. I think the smaller stalks may have less oxalic acid - but that's just a guess based on my own taste tests. I have no empirical data to back that up.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

wildhair said:


> _Once you get that 1.090 reading - THEN add the rest of the ingredients EXCEPT the yeast. *Stir it all up, check the ph.* *If it's less then 3 - add calcium carbonate @ 1/2 t per gallon to start. * Wait about an hour, test ph again. If it's around 3.2 - 3.5 - you're good. Still low? Add another 1/2 t per gal, wait, test ph.
> After 12 hrs +/- check the sg (around 1.090) and ph (3.2 - 3.5 ) again. If it's all good - add your yeast, cover with a towel and let the yeast do it's thing.
> If you don't have a ph meter - just taste it. If it burns at the back of your throat - it's probably too acidic._
> 
> So - imho - get a ph meter, learn to use it - you won't regret it.



Right, right. I do remember this. Hubby was not able to find any kind of PH testing thing when he did his supply run. He did find the calcium carbonate though. We are on the lookout for the ph meter. Reminded hubby this morning.

I did taste it and there was no burning in my throat. It was absolutely delicious. I could have bottled that up.

And of course, we were without an SG meter on the long weekend that the yeast went in so this was all left behind as we forged ahead.

What great information though. Unlike it being Greek at the time, starting to comprehend some Winese in there.

And thank you Venatorscribe, that is very interesting. I am going to try a batch of pure rhubarb next time. Like wildhair mentioned, my stalks are BIG so as you say probably a lot of this oxalic acid in there. I am patient and not a super big drinker (yet), can't say the same for hubby, but if it even smells odd, it will have the opportunity to sit on the shelf for another few years.

What do you do, booby trap it with little mouse traps. Maybe a lock and key that I hide. We'll figure it out.

Oh, and no orange juice was added to this batch but got a little creative with the ingredients: 13 lbs of rhubarb, 50 oz of white grape concentrate, 1 lb of strawberries, half a pound of raspberries and a BIG chunk of ginger.

Time for a coffee and will get the next meter reading.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Stressbaby said:


> Following along here...good read...
> 
> I believe this is the recipe, is that correct?
> So no pH/acid adjustments so far?


You are correct, that's it. 

As meadmaker said though, recipes are just a guideline. Thought it would be something I could follow word for word but bahhh, that didn't happen. So yes, this is the "guideline" we are following.


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## wildhair (May 28, 2018)

You can still test the ph when you get the meter and lower the acidity with your calcium carbonate if needed. And you will use the ph meter on every future batch.

Part of the reason wine "recipes" are guidelines is that the main component - the fruit - can vary so much in taste, ripeness, natural sugars and acidity. Temperature matters, the type of yeast matters, the minerals in your water matter & your own personal taste buds matter. This is why no one can say - " add X amount of sugar and you will get an sg of 1.090." Or "add X amount of calcium carbonate to get a ph of 3.2" . There are simply too many variables - it is NOT black & white. It's not like making a batch of cookies.

Wine - at this stage - is a living & unique thing. So it becomes important to know what all the different chemicals (and steps) are for and what they do - so you can figure out how to get the best wine from any batch or fruit. The more you understand the components and how they work together, the easier it will get and the more fun "tweaking" and personalizing your wine becomes. And the less you worry about screwing it up.

I am very much a novice at this adventure - but the many, many knowledgeable folks here have really helped me along the learning curve...........and I still have a looooong way to go. You will also find some contradictory information & replies here. That's OK - it just means there is probably more than 1 way to make a good wine.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Ha ha, you a novice wildhair? Me thinks not, you guys are like professors. Hmmm… what does that make me, maybe like a fetus in the first trimester?

Very nice, I get the cookie analogy. I learned to make cookies (well any baking) by following a recipe exactly. Have always been a pretty good cook but my baking always failed until I was told to measure and follow EXACTLY. That's what I thought would happen when meadmaker said grab a recipe and follow it. But two very different things. I like that you pointed that out. It really resonates based on my experiences.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

MY TURN.
How did yu do that, @Stressbaby 
The red "this" thing link.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Ha ha, I could answer that. But we'll let stressbaby provide the guiding instructions.

Just waiting for the meter reading picture to download.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Here's this mornings' reading:




Correct me if I'm wrong but we're going down about 3 marker points a day. So one'ish more point and it will hit that magical big number 1.000 and this is what I am looking for?

So when hubby gets home tonight with the littler'ish bottles, we might be able to transfer everything into them?

And sorry, there are bubbles but I waited for a while, spun and tapped and they just kept appearing. It seems pretty active still.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

To get batches to last longer, start more batches. 
If you are lucky enough to save one a year or so you will likely discover the benifit, this helps the waiting game.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Here's this mornings' reading:
> 
> View attachment 48963
> 
> ...



Yes you are in the rack to secondary zone.


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## Stressbaby (May 28, 2018)

My wine acid elevator speech...I'm simplifying a bit here, but I think this largely works...

pH governs the micro-biologic climate - in other words, pH is what must be in range for yeast and MLB to ferment and how much SO2 you need to keep other stuff from contaminating your wine.

TA is titratable acidity as tartaric. It is not just tartaric but all acids (including oxalic) expressed as tartaric. You can theoretically measure TA as malic or as citric as well, but convention is tartaric. TA is what governs taste. The two tend to move in the same direction but not always. As an example, I had two whites last year, post ferment one had TA 9 and pH 3.4, and the other TA 10 and pH 2.7. 

TA is linear; you can add acid and get a predictable linear increase in TA. pH is logarithmic and is affected by all sorts of buffers and other stuff. You cannot get the same predictable changes with acid additions.

Same with calcium or potassium (bi)carbonate. TA linear, pH non-linear. And 1/2 tsp/gal calcium carbonate addition can cause you to overshoot. My final adjustments are more like 1/4tsp/gal or less. Two other quick points - calcium carbonate requires special care post-ferment so most people use potassium carbonate post-ferment and calcium pre-ferment. Also, calcium salt has less effect on pH than the potassium salt so if your pH is already relatively high, but you need to bring the TA down, calcium salt may still be the one to use. 

tl;dr - TA is taste, pH is bug climate, measure both.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Oh my, that's not the answer I would have given. I would have gone on about hyperlinks. Pheew, glad I left that one to Stressbaby.

Great information.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Meadmaker, what does the primary zone mean? I know rack means put it in the carboy right?


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

I had to edit. 
I ment secondary.
Rack to carboy any time now.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Woo hoo, so it's do the right things! 

We will "rack" this evening.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

Secondary vs primary play on words. 
Primary could be thought of as the more critical stage. 
This is where you will make this yours. Adjusting acid, adding stabilizers, sweetening, and oaking ect.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

That point is tricky to explain here. Ignore it.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> Secondary vs primary play on words.
> Primary could be thought of as the more critical stage.
> This is where you will make this yours. Adjusting acid, adding stabilizers, sweetening, and oaking ect.



So the primary will come later. Acids, stabilizers, oaking, oh boy. And more sugar if necessary, ok. And you will let me know when to do that?


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

I wish I could delete that rambling 
Let's stay on track. You are ready for secondary and first stages of finishing. 
Yes we will discus finishing steps as the time comes


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Pheew, thank you. That was getting a bit complicated. So we will put it in the carboy(s) tonight. We don't have to do/add anything else right? 

I will take a picture to make sure we did it right.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Ok, off to paint some more of the fence. 

And before I come in all hot, light headed and headachy... No, it's not a chain link fence that's being stained.


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## wildhair (May 28, 2018)

Stressbaby said:


> My wine acid elevator speech...I'm simplifying a bit here, but I think this largely works...
> 
> pH governs the micro-biologic climate - in other words, pH is what must be in range for yeast and MLB to ferment and how much SO2 you need to keep other stuff from contaminating your wine.
> 
> ...



Excellent info - must be a tall building, tho. LOL
Again - I defer to those more knowledgeable than I. I was thinking - "baby steps" here.


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## Stressbaby (May 28, 2018)

wildhair said:


> Excellent info - must be a tall building, tho. LOL
> Again - I defer to those more knowledgeable than I. I was thinking - "baby steps" here.



Yeah probably TMI but I got on a roll. 

Wolfpup when you do get the meter get an acid test kit as well and post the numbers here.

As far as tonight, get it in a carboy; you can be a little sloppy this time, it's OK to get a little sludge, that has yeast which will help it finish fermenting.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

It is as good read. But I agree, first wine. I got a lot out of it so thank you. I myself am playing and paying more attention in this area, trying to find the sweet spot in wines that don't quite measure up.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

OMG… is this racking a test in marriage stability. 29 years under our belt but this is kind of crazy….

Put the garbage pail on the table, it has to be high.
No, no, it's ok, the chair is high enough.
Table…
No, just the chair please. Come on, hurry, this bucket is heavy.
It's not going to work…
Sure it is.
If there's one thing I do know, it's how to syphon.
I trust you but I've watched lots of videos, CHAIR please.

Ok, now I'm going pull it out and put it in the other jug.
Ok, let's stop the syphoning.
No, you don't want to have to start again.
Sure but I also don't want it all over the floor. I'll just pull this one up.
NO…don't do that we don't want it to stop.

OMG.

There was lots of juice, we don't have enough bottles. He's out there McGivor'ing a lid to fit another bung in into a big jar we have.

Oh boy, this is a bit nerve wracking. Will update when we have this done.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

Well I am truly proud of you both.
Without any help from us you took charge and are getting it done.
And based on the details in your post you are doing it perfectly.
Lol lack of planning merit badge.


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## Wolfpup (May 28, 2018)

Ta Da!




Hee hee. We both read your post and the "proud of both of you" had us high fiving, a nice bear hug and a sweet kiss. We had a good laugh and are breathing a big sigh of relief. Gonna sleep good tonight.


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## meadmaker1 (May 28, 2018)

Looks good. 
Take a deep cleansing breath.
Now is the hard part.
WAITING.
WAITING till you can see through it. 
But what to do while we wait?? Bottles, corks, corker. 
My favorite kind of bottle is free, free without labels is heavenly. There is a recycling store near me. I crust through now and then. $.25 each often without labels. Selection is random. Your fermenter store will certainly have new ones. They might also rent a floor corker. Find out. Look into your options. 
Start planning
Or you story about racking to 40 separate containers will be way more fun to read


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## meadmaker1 (May 29, 2018)

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2009/09/rabarberwijn-1-rhubarbwine-1.html
Check this out. 
Something to consider for future batches.


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## Wolfpup (May 29, 2018)

Oh that sounds good, the fact you say it looks good.

The bottles are full enough? And hubby is going to get another gallon pirate jug for the McGivor'ed one tomorrow. He said the place he went didn't have any 2 or 3 gallon ones. These two little ones were the only off sizes they had.

And yes… planning. Looking back right now, so many things we could have prepared for or done differently. It almost seems like we could have used one of the other 5 gallon ones but there's a lot of calculating with that hey.

Next time, I will measure all the liquids at all the different stages and know exactly how much there is so we have the right size carboys.

And yes, hubby brought a single wine bottle too. They charged a dollar for it but it's completely blank. Interesting, the gentleman he talked to said that Bob is the third person this month, he has talked to, making rhubarb wine. He said he has rhubarb labels too.

So do you put labels on or leave the bottle in the heavenly state? We will keep our eyes open for bottles and a corker. About how many do you think we will need? Something tells me if this continues, we may never have enough.

The recipe says that we have to rack it again 3 weeks. So that is June 18th. Is that correct? And how does one go about doing that. Do we need all new bottles? Bahhh, won't worry about that right now.

Oh, is there a special way that you store this? Does light bother it, like should it be in a closet or something. We could put it in the basement but it's pretty cool down there.

Sure is fun to watch those little water bungs bubble away.

That looks like a great article, my kind of bed time story. Will go read the English part to see what's going on there. Stuff looks frozen.


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## wildhair (May 29, 2018)

Congratulations! You can breath a little easier now. Looks good. 

Next time, I will measure all the liquids at all the different stages and know exactly how much there is so we have the right size carboys.

This is where a large fermenter is nice - it has embossed markings on the side to let you know how much juice you have.

So do you put labels on or leave the bottle in the heavenly state? 

Label them. I make my own, some order them. They can be as utilitarian or as fancy-schmanzy as you want. There is a whole section here on Labels - these are what I use - 

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/post-your-labels-here.31429/page-124#post-688232


We will keep our eyes open for bottles and a corker. About how many do you think we will need? 
See attached chart. I have a 2 handed corker that came with my initial kit. Works great for me. I made a bottle holder jig that clamps to a table so I don't have to get my wife to hold the bottles while I cork.

Something tells me if this continues, we may never have enough.
True - it is a constant quest. My wife worked at a hotel - asked the girls that cleaned the rooms to save the wine bottles. Got a bunch. I have a friend whose brother owns a restaurant & catering business - got a bunch there. Ask local restaurants & friends to save them. Last resort, for a Scotsman like me - "sigh" - buy them new by the case. Local is just as cheap as on-line once you factor in shipping.

The recipe says that we have to rack it again 3 weeks. So that is June 18th. Is that correct? 
More or less. A month is fine. You'll begin to see a pile of sludge building up on the bottom and the wine will get clearer. 

And how does one go about doing that. 
Pretty much like you just did. From the looks of it - I would pick up a 3 gallon carboy. When I have a large batch - I will siphon it all back into 1 large container (my big fermenter). The critical thing - try NOT to suck up any of the sludge at the bottom (lees). Here's where different size siphon hoses are useful. The larger the diameter of the hose, the more suction it has. I will use a large hose first, then let it go dry about 4" from the bottom, then siphon the rest with a smaller hose - 3/8" or even a 1/4" hose. That allows me to leave less wine in the bottom with the sludge. I can get within a 1/2" of the bottom before the lees begin to move toward the siphon. 
Then I test it (sg, ph, TA - acid test), taste it & decide if I need to make any changes to the whole batch, like reduce acid, add something to improve body, etc.

Do we need all new bottles?
Not really. WASH OUT THE BIG CARBOY AND SMALLER BOTTLES, sanitize them, then siphon it back to the big carboy and other vessels. Put the airlocks back in (after washing and sanitizing).

Oh, is there a special way that you store this? Does light bother it, like should it be in a closet or something. We could put it in the basement but it's pretty cool down there.

Some wines need protection from light to keep the color from fading. Rhubarb wine is a white wine - most of the color will fade on it's own. You can cover the carboys with paper bags or a dark T-shirt if you want. 
How cool is "pretty cool"? My basement is about 70 degrees - which is OK from what I am told. Not that I have a choice - that's the only place where the temp is cool and where I have room to store it all. Put it someplace cool-ish, out of the way, but accessible.

Then - about a month or 2 after doing this - re-read this and do it all over again. Then again about 3 months after that. The wine will be getting clearer & there will be a smaller build-up of lees each time.

So you have time to get some bottles & other stuff. Get some books, read up on different websites. You could even get a big fermenter and start a new batch! Maybe..........strawberries will be in season?


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## Wolfpup (May 29, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2009/09/rabarberwijn-1-rhubarbwine-1.html
> Check this out.
> Something to consider for future batches.



Wow meadmaker, that is a great article.

She is a chemist if ever I've read one. Didn't quite understand all her calculations but I can work on it. Sure makes me want to test the acid level in this stuff. Went down all her rabbit holes too

How cool is that de-acidifying process. Freeze the cut up rhubarb. Unthaw and pour juice into bottles that you can destroy (milk jugs) and freeze. Cut off the dark red ice as that's where the acid accumulates.

And her bucket sieve. On the lookout for a compatible sacrificial bucket.

Had a second packet of yeast sitting here. It went straight into the fridge.

Interesting though, her 14 lbs of rhubarb got 4.5 liters of juice, she added 2 lbs of sugar and got 5 bottles of wine, or that's all she showed. My 13 lbs is going produce way more than that and not that that is a good thing but I wonder what that means.

And OMG, every time she said how difficult it was to find rhubarb, my heart ached a little. I just want to box up 50 lbs and send it to her. It sounds like she may be in Germany though, can't imagine the shipping costs on that.

Amazing article, was so much fun reading. Thank you for that. Lots of ideas for my rhubarb batch.


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## Wolfpup (May 29, 2018)

Thank you for all the nuanced answers wildhair. It's those little details, from an experienced winemaker, that are so invaluable. Like get the juice back in the big bucket and re-syphon back into existing bottles. Hopefully by that time we will have come up with 2 and 3 gallon carboys. And will definitely look for one of those marked fermenters. That sounds crazy handy.

So according to that chart (now saved on my desktop), if my calculations are correct (and a big chance they aren't) we should get about 35ish bottles?

There's a couple of spaces upstairs that we can store the carboys. One has more light and the other is away from all windows so we'll put it there. T-shirts on the bottles, love it!! Our basement is a steady 50 degrees, unless we put the heat on down there so it's probably best to let it ferment upstairs.

And the labeling, took a look at your post, beautiful looking wine you have there! Going to grab a coffee and delve into that thread. Perfect timing, It looks so interesting right now.

Funny, my hubby is quite a manly man, reminds me a lot of a pirate (my Jack Sparrow). I can just see him slapping a sticky note on the larger pirate jug that says "Mine" and staggering around the yard singing (growling) away to some swashbuckling song that involves … we don't need no stinkin' labels…

He does like it when I get creative and make things pretty though.

There is still so much to learn and do in this month. I'm quite relieved at this point to have the time to get this all organized, for the next few stages. It really is a cool hobby hey, I can see why folks get pretty deep into it now.

Thank you wildhair, off to do some reading.


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## wildhair (May 29, 2018)

BTW - avoid the screw-top bottles when you start bottle collecting. While you CAN "put a cork in it" - the glass is thinner than bottles designed for a cork and the neck taper is also not ideal for a cork. So there may be an issue with breakage as you try and cork them or when un-corking if you use a wine screw that pivots on the lip of the bottle. (I've done it - you need #8 corks (#9 is standard for wine bottles), a steady hand a 2-handle wine screw when you go to drink it - but I much prefer bottles designed for corks).

Yes, it is a very interesting hobby if you like making things with your own hands, learning new things & constantly trying to improve on the things you make. You can get as deep into it as time & $$$ allow, or just make a few batches a year for family & friends. Have fun !


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## Jal5 (May 29, 2018)

Don’t mean to high jack this thread but wildhair can you post a pic of that jig you made to hold the bottle while you put the cork in? 
Thx 
Joe


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## Wolfpup (May 29, 2018)

Please, hijack away. I would love to see it too. A jig that allows his wife to stay away from that part of the process.... yup... all in. 

Excellent bottle information wildhair. Will stay away from the screw tops.


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## wildhair (May 29, 2018)

Jal5 said:


> Don’t mean to high jack this thread but wildhair can you post a pic of that jig you made to hold the bottle while you put the cork in?
> Thx
> Joe



Sure - I'l snap a few pic after work.


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## opus345 (May 29, 2018)

Stressbaby said:


> My wine acid elevator speech...I'm simplifying a bit here, but I think this largely works..



OK, my elevator speech is how I can get you drunk on the deck in the sun for about $1.30 a bottle when we are drinking Dragon's Blood!


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## Wolfpup (May 29, 2018)

Don't know why I'm so excited but hubby just called and he found a 3 gallon carboy. Said he really likes this new wine shop he found. Apparently they called the grandma, who originated the store and she is the one who came up with the carboy. So glad he's got the bug too now. 

Should we pour all these little jugs into the 3 gallon?

Opus, your 1.30 deck fun sounds like a great speech!


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## meadmaker1 (May 29, 2018)

Yes on the 3.
A 2 gallon is what I've not been able to find, at least not in a bottle top,lots of jugs and jars but nothing I can Cork and air lock


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## opus345 (May 29, 2018)

There are numerous threads on how to remove labels and then cork. I use a couple 15 gal rope tubs and OxyClean (no dye, no perfume, etc.) to soak bottles to make the old labels melt off. For the stubborn ones, I use a plastic spoon and shower brush. Wedding halls and wine joints are great to find used bottles you can clean and re-purpose. I found a nice Portuguese floor corker on Craigslist years ago for $20 where a winemaker's ex-girlfriend was selling off his equipment. His loss, my gain!


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## wildhair (May 29, 2018)

Sounds like a much more inebriating elevator speech, for sure.

If it were me - and seeing how you just racked it yesterday - I would transfer the 3 -1G jugs into the 3 gal carboy. It will make it easier next time you rack. And free up your airlocks for other batches.


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## meadmaker1 (May 29, 2018)

I walked into my local supply house to inquire about corkers and bought the used floor corker he had been trying to sell for at least 20 minutes. I think $40.


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## wildhair (May 29, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> Yes on the 3.
> A 2 gallon is what I've not been able to find, at least not in a bottle top,lots of jugs and jars but nothing I can Cork and air lock


I use these - available in 1.25, 2, 2.5 & 3G sizes. I drill a 1" dia hole in the top, insert a bung and airlock. You can also put them on their end & remove the spigot and use a 7.5 bung and airlock. I don't like the 3G - the ones I had cracked in the corners. BPA free, designed to hold all kinds of juices, fairly low cost, easy to clean. The spigot is handy for sampling. 

https://www.arrowhomeproducts.com/product-section/hydration/


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## Stressbaby (May 29, 2018)

Your carboys look great right now, I wouldn't rack into the 3g until time to rack again. 
Keep them out of the light.
No need to wait three weeks, if the wine gets quiet and you have lots of lees, you can rack sooner. That second racking for me is usually 3-10 days rather than 3 weeks. Also, redose the KMS at that time because most of your KMS blew off with the ferment.


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## Wolfpup (May 29, 2018)

Oh darn Stressbaby, got the messages of my primary mentors first, all done.

And wow wildhair, NOW you show us a picture of the handiest, size versatile, redneck looking carboy ever. Ok, one of those is next on the list. Looks like a great liquid container to have around.

But I think we have a problem. Look at what they look like now. I know this isn't right. Do we just put water in the second one?


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## Stressbaby (May 30, 2018)

If it is still fermenting, you'll have a layer of CO2 in that carboy on the left and, for a while, some protection. Ultimately that is too much headspace and you will need to deal with it. If it were me next time I'd rack it down to 2 1-gallons plus a 0.5g carboy. If you are anywhere near central Missouri you can have one of my 0.5g.


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## wildhair (May 30, 2018)

Yep - what he said ^ 
However, I would use a 2G or 2.5G jug instead of 2 - 1G containers for whatever didn't fit in the 5G carboy. 

On a separate note - I was asked to show some pics of the jig I use to hold the bottles while I cork. So as not to hi-jack THIS thread (or steer it way off course) - I posted the pics and description here........ 

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/handy-home-made-tools.65486/#post-691767

If you have Q,s - post them there so we can keep this on the Massive Rhubarb track.


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## Wolfpup (May 30, 2018)

Ok, good information for future.

I panicked a little thinking something was going wrong cause the little one didn't start bubbling.

We weren't sure what to do but when hubby picked up the two new bottles he explained to the guy why we needed them. He told him about making sure they were full. To even them out and add water.

We took 3 cups out of the big one, added itt to the little one and put 3 cups of water back in the big one and added 2 more cups of water in the little one.

Probably not the best but it seemed logical to our minds at the time based on the information we had.

I hope we didn't dilute them too badly but they are both even and bubbling away this morning.


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## Wolfpup (May 30, 2018)

Got deep into that labeling thread yesterday. Are there ever some great looking labels! Never thought about a wine label before this, other than maybe to read that it actually had alcohol in the bottle.

But it got me thinking about a label for us too. Not sure how to go about it but thought a big fancy sword about to take a swack at our rhubarb bush might be reflective of what's inside.

The blade of the sword could be a stick of rhubarb (fancied out, blade like), the handle could be ginger in a handle form and the jewels in the handle could be strawberries and raspberries. And then grape concentrate could be dripping from the sword instead of blood.

Ha ha, now just to create it.


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## wildhair (May 30, 2018)

It would take a little while for the 3G to fill the empty space with CO2 and push out all the O2. In this very early stage, it would have been OK for the next couple weeks. Other opinions may very. I typically don't add water to top up - I top up with a similar wine or if I have to - I use "sweet water" - 1:1 sugar/water mix. Good to hear they are still bubbling away.


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## Wolfpup (May 30, 2018)

Oh boy, my impatience is showing. Should have just waited to hear from you guys. But this one is hubby's decision as well. He was the one armed with the information about adding water.

We will know better next time.

Should I add some sugar now? And if so how much would you add?


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## wildhair (May 30, 2018)

No - just let it be. It'll be fine.


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## meadmaker1 (May 31, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Oh boy, my impatience is showing. Should have just waited to hear from you guys. But this one is hubby's decision as well. He was the one armed with the information about adding water.
> 
> We will know better next time.
> 
> Should I add some sugar now? And if so how much would you add?


Its your wine now. Making changes on the fly,, write them down. Some of us might have lead you astray, in hind sight the small jugs where nicely topped up and needed nothing. But i agree that you will be fine. You need to start another something to keep you from over messing with this batch. 
If you add sugar calculate target abv per the volume of water added. I would leave it alone


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## Stressbaby (May 31, 2018)

Good winemaking advice I got from this forum - if unsure what to do, do nothing at all.

@meadmaker1 corollary - if unsure what to do, start a different batch!

OT: this is not threadworthy but just to share...friend of mine in FL has 100# of excess of lychees and facebook messaged me yesterday to offer me a box for the cost of shipping...keeping my fingers crossed...my last batch of lychee wine came out really darn good.


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## Wolfpup (May 31, 2018)

wildhair said:


> No - just let it be. It'll be fine.



Busy day yesterday, saw this, relaxed about it all and just let it be.



meadmaker1 said:


> Its your wine now. Making changes on the fly,, write them down. Some of us might have lead you astray, in hind sight the small jugs where nicely topped up and needed nothing. But i agree that you will be fine. You need to start another something to keep you from over messing with this batch.
> 
> If you add sugar calculate target abv per the volume of water added. I would leave it alone



Meadmaker, there is no way you could lead us astray. You guys have practically made this wine; I just did the physical activities. We are sure enjoying the talk and future planning of this hobby though, something that we are both getting into.

And yes, actually enjoying the down time. I won't mess with it any longer until something is needed. What does this mean: *If you add sugar calculate target abv per the volume of water added? *But I did leave it alone.

My shepherd had some major TPLO surgery a few months ago and I've been fortunate to have enough saved up holiday time to supervise his recovery. He's at a point now where he should be ok on his own and they are anxious to have me back to work,.. so that may put a damper on the next batch for a bit until things get back into a comfortable routine again.

This time off has been such an eye opener. Haven't had this much time off, in one chunk, in over 20 years. Other than some tense moments with the pup and this wine, it has been so much fun. There really is a life out here.



Stressbaby said:


> If it were me next time I'd rack it down to 2 1-gallons plus a 0.5g carboy. If you are anywhere near central Missouri you can have one of my 0.5g.



Ha ha, thank you, but no, we're up here in British Columbia, Canada. We did get one of these though. Was probably at lot easier than the commute to pick up yours. Again, thank you for this though and great advice for next time.

And this…



Stressbaby said:


> OT: this is not threadworthy but just to share...friend of mine in FL has 100# of excess of lychees and facebook messaged me yesterday to offer me a box for the cost of shipping...keeping my fingers crossed...my last batch of lychee wine came out really darn good.



Totally threadworthy! Fingers crossed for you as well. I don't think I even know what lychees are but that sounds like a lot of fun.

Gosh, I have some peppers getting to a nice size. I can't believe I was thinking... I wonder if you could make a pepper wine?

Whole new world has opened up for us.


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## Arne (May 31, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Busy day yesterday, saw this, relaxed about it all and just let it be.
> 
> 
> Gosh, I have some peppers getting to a nice size. I can't believe I was thinking... I wonder if you could make a pepper wine?
> ...



Buy a few jugs of storebought apple juice. However big of a batch you want to make. Put the juice in an open fermenter, bring the specific gravity up to 1.085 or so. Add half of the recomended nutrient off the nutrient pkg, maybe some acid blend, tannin according to the pkg, maybe some bentinite to help it clear later, and add a pkg of yeast. Let it ferment down to 1.060 or so, add the rest of the nutrient and add peppers to the mix. I would probably slice them at least in half and put in a mesh bag. Let it ferment down, stir every day or so, when it gets to 1.010 or lower transfer to a secondary and remove the peppers. If you want more pepper taste, throw the same ones or new ones into the secondary. Number of peppers will vary according to taste and amount you are making. I have used some pretty hot ones and use maybe 2 to the gallon. Also, I am not really a fan of very hot stuff. Good luck with it, Arne.


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## meadmaker1 (May 31, 2018)

Arne said:


> Buy a few jugs of storebought apple juice. However big of a batch you want to make. Put the juice in an open fermenter, bring the specific gravity up to 1.085 or so. Add half of the recomended nutrient off the nutrient pkg, maybe some acid blend, tannin according to the pkg, maybe some bentinite to help it clear later, and add a pkg of yeast. Let it ferment down to 1.060 or so, add the rest of the nutrient and add peppers to the mix. I would probably slice them at least in half and put in a mesh bag. Let it ferment down, stir every day or so, when it gets to 1.010 or lower transfer to a secondary and remove the peppers. If you want more pepper taste, throw the same ones or new ones into the secondary. Number of peppers will vary according to taste and amount you are making. I have used some pretty hot ones and use maybe 2 to the gallon. Also, I am not really a fan of very hot stuff. Good luck with it, Arne.



Now that is a wine makers recipie. A little of this and some of that. As much of this as what ever. Lol. 

There seems to come a point that folks settle into a way of doing things regardless of what they make. I know I have. Little adjustments for the tendencies of the type but I hydrate yeast , follow a feeding schedule, shoot for certain sg ect. And as a result I take credit and call it my own.


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## meadmaker1 (May 31, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> *If you add sugar calculate target abv per the volume of water added? *But I did leave it alone.


If your starting e.g. was say 1.100 and you had to add water and not change the alcohol lvl, you can simply add sugar to the water until it's 1.100 and there will be no change. 
If you've already added the water you can estimate the amount of sugar if you measured the water.
But I personally would throw a towel over it and visit on the week ends for a couple months.


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## Wolfpup (May 31, 2018)

Arne said:


> Buy a few jugs of storebought apple juice. However big of a batch you want to make. Put the juice in an open fermenter, bring the specific gravity up to 1.085 or so. Add half of the recomended nutrient off the nutrient pkg, maybe some acid blend, tannin according to the pkg, maybe some bentinite to help it clear later, and add a pkg of yeast. Let it ferment down to 1.060 or so, add the rest of the nutrient and add peppers to the mix. I would probably slice them at least in half and put in a mesh bag. Let it ferment down, stir every day or so, when it gets to 1.010 or lower transfer to a secondary and remove the peppers. If you want more pepper taste, throw the same ones or new ones into the secondary. Number of peppers will vary according to taste and amount you are making. I have used some pretty hot ones and use maybe 2 to the gallon. Also, I am not really a fan of very hot stuff. Good luck with it, Arne.



OMG, really, this sounds wonderful! A really big fan of the hot peppers. Habaneros and Apple Juice. Yes! How many peppers did you use and was it hot/spicy? Can't imagine a wine that actually bites back. That would be such an interesting flavor. Going to save this in my folder.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 1, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> But I personally would throw a towel over it and visit on the week ends for a couple months.



Ok, still having fun watching the bubbles. Will put it away tomorrow and try not to think about it. Babysitting it for so long, it's hard to not think about. You are right, I probably should get the next batch going. 25 lbs of rhubarb sitting in the freezer, ready to go. 

Will probably give it a couple of weeks, get this one settled and work on that frozen juice thing. That will give me some time to get that one all sorted out.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 1, 2018)

As an alternative, maybe turn your 25 kg into a lovely crumble dessert. I am not being negative about rhubarb wine, but truely apply your new knowledge to a different fruit. At least then you will have something to blend with the rhubarb. Every fermentation here after will be a total breeze compared to the technicalities of a rhubarb wine. You now have the knowledge of Yoda. Time to extend your range and knowledge of fruit wines. You'll have a lot of fun. Especially blending wine cocktails. All the best with your Rh fermentation.


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## wildhair (Jun 1, 2018)

Hmmmm Wise you all are. Much has she learned.


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## wildhair (Jun 1, 2018)

"If it doesn't move - ferment it." 
I believe Jack Keller said that. I still have to get my beet wine, melon wine, chamomile wine & cucumber wine going. Trying to save up enough goji berries (a.k.a. - Wolfberries) to make a straight Goji wine. Someone said tomato wine was excellent - might try that. If you can grow it - you can ferment it.
Rhubarb wine is said to make an excellent blending wine - it takes on the flavors of whatever it's added to. Very useful for topping up. I definitely need to make more - if for no other reason that to hide a few bottles & see how it tastes after 5 years................ assuming I live another 5 years.


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## Arne (Jun 1, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> OMG, really, this sounds wonderful! A really big fan of the hot peppers. Habaneros and Apple Juice. Yes! How many peppers did you use and was it hot/spicy? Can't imagine a wine that actually bites back. That would be such an interesting flavor. Going to save this in my folder.


Think I used about 6 Thai (? spelling) peppers. Little bitty hot things, actually still sitting in a gallon. They do get your attention when you take a swallow. Arne.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 1, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> As an alternative, maybe turn your 25 kg into a lovely crumble dessert. .



Ha ha, yes and a nice rhubarb, strawberry pie will be on the menu here shortly. Lots of berries in the patch, just waiting for them to ripen. And our fruit trees are looking bountiful too. Was just hoping to do something with all this rhubarb instead of wasting it every year. Over 50 pounds off it so far and it's still producing like a bunny on steroids.

And I don't know if I'd call my level of knowledge wisdom yet. Sure doesn't feel that way. A little anxious about any possible sugar alterations and then there's the whole PH thing. The last wine shop Bob went to (the one he really liked) has ordered us a PH tester. They said it will be in next week. What if those numbers are out of whack. And then there's the whole bottling thing.

It will be nice to have the whole batch under our belt and a bottle on the table with dinner. We were talking about the fact that we're going to need some kind of wine rack too, if this is going to produce 30ish bottle. How do you guys store all the wine?

But you are right Venatorscribe. Have been messing with this rhubarb for almost a month now, it might be nice to try something different. But if I get this next rhubarb done, we'll have 7ish years to play around with the other fruits. Oh, but next year, the plant will continue production. I really need to perfect this rhubarb thing. Oh boy, so many options.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 1, 2018)

wildhair said:


> Hmmmm Wise you all are. Much has she learned.
> 
> View attachment 49067


OMG, I love this, too cute.

Yes and thanks to you wonderful folks not only has much be learned but the experience has been fairly painless, having such a wealth of information to draw on. For this we are truly grateful.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 1, 2018)

Arne said:


> Think I used about 6 Thai (? spelling) peppers. Little bitty hot things, actually still sitting in a gallon. They do get your attention when you take a swallow. Arne.



Ok, that's good to know, so just a few, not like 10 or 15 lbs. Just kind of like a flavoring. 

*"If it doesn't move - ferment it." *

This retired grandma lady at the wine shop told Bob that the last wine she made was with rice. It turned out be a Saki of some kind. He explained it but I didn't quite get it.

This pepper recipe sounds right up my alley though. Can't wait to give this a try.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 1, 2018)

Saki is not as simple as just fermenting with rice.
It requires something like an enzyme or bacteria or " some thing "
And that concludes what I know about saki. And I'm open to being corrected on any details I got wrong.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 2, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Ok, that's good to know, so just a few, not like 10 or 15 lbs. Just kind of like a flavoring.
> 
> *"If it doesn't move - ferment it." *
> 
> ...


FYI there is a really good thread on this platform for rice wine. I got similarly excited at the challenge of making rice wine after reading the many posts on the subject.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 2, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> Saki is not as simple as just fermenting with rice.
> It requires something like an enzyme or bacteria or " some thing "
> And that concludes what I know about saki. And I'm open to being corrected on any details I got wrong.



Ha ha, my thoughts exactly meadmaker. He did say "some thing" about raisins too but my mind kind of tuned out at that point.



Venatorscribe said:


> FYI there is a really good thread on this platform for rice wine. I got similarly excited at the challenge of making rice wine after reading the many posts on the subject.



I like rice and can steam it just as good as any Chinese cook, but I did try saki once. And much like scotch (please don't take this wrong those of you that call it baby tears or tears of joy, or whatever) but once was enough for me. Not a fan.

And not that I'm a foo foo drinker, I do like jagermeister and beer but something about scotch and saki that never had me going back.

I wonder if the rice is cooked before you ferment it. Never mind, just an idle thought. We'll leave the rice wine to those with the taste buds, I'd rather make mine dance with capsaicin.


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## opus345 (Jun 3, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Busy day yesterday, saw this, relaxed about it all and just let it be.
> 
> Gosh, I have some peppers getting to a nice size. I can't believe I was thinking... I wonder if you could make a pepper wine?
> 
> Whole new world has opened up for us.



Here is a link to my Capsicumel Mead recipe. I'm on my third batch.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 3, 2018)

opus345 said:


> Here is a link to my Capsicumel Mead recipe. I'm on my third batch.


Oh my gosh Opus, this recipe looks amazing!! And it's with honey, how exciting is that!

You know, I have obviously been on a huge learning curve but I didn't realize how much I was absorbing. I can understand everything in this recipe except for these two things:

*Use Vacuvin to degas* and,
*Cold Crash, or Pasteurize to prevent bottle bombs. *

My peppers are still growing so will have some time to learn what it means.

*"A huge hit whenever you uncork it"*… I'll bet hey, would love to try it as well. Between your well laid out directions and Arne's "attention getting" recipe, I should have what's necessary to concoct a few "flaming" bottles of my own.

I see you've used Anahiem, Jalapeno and Seranos. Don't have those but I could probably improvise with what's here? These are the peppers I'm currently growing:

Hot Hungarian
Crimson Hot
Hot Red Cherry
Super Chili
Thai Dragon
Cayenne
And my two favorites, Habanaros and Bhut Jolokia (aka Ghost Peppers).

Have some regular Bell and Gypsy (somewhat like the Jalapeno) peppers in the garden too.

Your recipe is saved to my folder and if you don't mind, will probably be knocking on your virtual door when the time comes to put the peppers into action. 

Thank you so much for this. It's looks like a perfect recipe! Exactly what I needed.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 3, 2018)

Vacuvin must be some name brand of vacuum system to degrees wine. A question you were bound to ask sooner or later. 
Cold crashing is putting your carboy somewhere that keeps it very cold in this case to help stop fermentation. Some times to help clear, I didn't read the link so there may be more to this but we will cover the details as your rhubarb comes along and you start thinking about back sweetening. 

Vacuum degassing is no question the wa y to go. The all in one wine pump seems to be the front runner and he is a member. By pulling vacuum on your car boy it causes the co2 bubbles to enlarge and float to the top. Or you can get a gizmo that hooks to a drill and whip the crap out of it.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 3, 2018)

Ohhhhh, ok. Thanks meadmaker.

Back to the total neophyte. We haven't even scratched the surface of the bottling process. My thoughts of simply syphoning from carboy to bottle… hubby, having made the wildhair bottle holder, and him capping the bottles, swish we're done…. is probably a way too simplistic, blonde thought, for what's actually involved.

So when we back sweeten, will it bring back that amazing taste that it had when we were fermenting?

And yes please, let's continue with the baby steps.

On a side note the jugs are still bubbling away. Don't have the heart to put them away yet, still on the counter. Very little sunlight gets to them. They are so fun to watch. All that work bubbling away. They almost seem alive, not quite like plants but sheepishly admitting, I talk to them. Is that normal?


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## wildhair (Jun 3, 2018)

No............ no it's not normal. If it starts talking back - get back on your meds. LOL 
At this point - they actually ARE alive. God bless the little yeasties.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 3, 2018)

You are at the first child stage. Over protective over concerned and panicky with every bump and bruise. Then comes number 2 or 3 and suddenly children are bullet proof, they bounce,and germs are afraid of being caught them. Get a couple more going and you'll be asking each other when the last time you checked it was.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 3, 2018)

LOL, you guys are hilarious. And wildhair, no medication required, for some reason it just feels right. They pop a little bubble at the most opportune times... like they are responding. 

I've apologized for not having the means to take their SG levels at the beginning and hope they aren't struggling with too much alcohol. And that I know they might be struggling with too much PH but we have some equipment coming next week to help them, if they can just hang in there... then they bubble bubble one and bubble bubble two. Then they relax for a while. Don't know if that's talking back but ... oh boy, maybe some medication is needed.

Great analogy meadmaker, makes total sense. Just like a first born for sure. Explains it perfectly. A couple more weeks with these babies and we'll get some more on the go. Still feeling a little overwhelmed and enjoying the stage they are at. A few other things on the go as well and it's always fun to look at them. 

Not to mention quite the conversation piece where they are sitting... what have you got going on there?... and then the fun talk begins.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 4, 2018)

Off topic, just noticed, under my name, it says Senior Member, how did that happen? 

Something or someone doesn't seem to be aware of my skill level. That could be completely misleading, should I happen to post something and someone like me saw it, thinking it was coming from someone who actually knew what they were talking about. Is there someone to contact to change that. 

It should say something like "newly born member", just out of the fetus stage.


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## Arne (Jun 4, 2018)

You were talking about sweetening. Make sure you stabilize it before you sweeten. If not the ferment will probably kick back in and you do not want that happening in the bottles. Stabilizing is just adding k-meta and pot. sorbate. You can just sweeten a glass and not have to stabilize beforehand to get a handle on what it is going to taste like. Arne.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 4, 2018)

You can change the banner under your avitar In profile settings


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## Wolfpup (Jun 4, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> You can change the banner under your avitar In profile settings



Aha, that worked. Thanks.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 4, 2018)

Arne said:


> You were talking about sweetening. Make sure you stabilize it before you sweeten. If not the ferment will probably kick back in and you do not want that happening in the bottles. Stabilizing is just adding k-meta and pot. sorbate. You can just sweeten a glass and not have to stabilize beforehand to get a handle on what it is going to taste like. Arne.



Thanks Arne, yes, I understand I will have to wait a while for the back sweetening process. When fermenting stops, I will be able to tell this? Or is it always automatically stopped with the potassium?

When we were putting it into the carboys, I got a taste and it didn't taste bad just nothing like the vibrant taste it had to start with. Was just kind of wondering if sweetening is going to bring that taste back.

So if I understand correctly, maybe the next time we have to rack it, I can put some in a glass with a bit of sugar and that will give me an idea of what its going to taste like?


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 4, 2018)

Fermentation stops when the yeast don't have food.
Your hydrometer will tell you this. Reading lower than 1.000 and stable three or fgor days
Then we hit it with a k meta dose and a bit of potassium sorbet. This stops ( doesn't kill )the yeast from restarting on the sugar we are going to add.
When to taste it be mindful of all the co2. 
Stir shake and let sit a while then taste.


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## wildhair (Jun 4, 2018)

Uh - maybe not NEXT time you rack. Sugar will bring back _some_ of the taste - but it's not going to taste like fresh rhubarb. Same as apples off the tree don't taste like apple wine. It's now something else and will taste like something else.

You will need to rack it a couple more times - maybe 3-6 months from now we can go all meet up and back sweetening. I usually wait for it to clear, then add the potassium sorbate and another does of k-meta, THEN add the sweetening. IF it needs it. 

Using simple syrup is better than adding dry sugar. And you will need to do it a measurable SMALL quantity first - so you can get the taste you want then extrapolate to get the right amount for the whole batch. 

What is the sg now?


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## opus345 (Jun 4, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Oh my gosh Opus, this recipe looks amazing!! And it's with honey, how exciting is that!
> 
> Don't have those but I could probably improvise with what's here? These are the peppers I'm currently growing:
> 
> ...



Good lord woman, your going to burn the house down!


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## opus345 (Jun 4, 2018)

wildhair said:


> Using simple syrup is better than adding dry sugar. And you will need to do it a measurable SMALL quantity first - so you can get the taste you want then extrapolate to get the right amount for the whole batch.What is the sg now?



Agree. I also like 100% White Grape Juice or concentrate to use for back sweetening.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 6, 2018)

Hi folks. Haven't gone anywhere. Computer systems are being updated and the Geeks are transferring data. They will be here tomorrow to reinstall everything. Will be back online shortly


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 8, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Off topic, just noticed, under my name, it says Senior Member, how did that happen?
> 
> Something or someone doesn't seem to be aware of my skill level. That could be completely misleading, should I happen to post something and someone like me saw it, thinking it was coming from someone who actually knew what they were talking about. Is there someone to contact to change that.
> 
> It should say something like "newly born member", just out of the fetus stage.



Haha I always thought that 'senior member' told everyone you were over 60 years..


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## Wolfpup (Jun 9, 2018)

Ahhh, finally back online. Not fun being without a computer but appreciating the upgrades now. 

So this information:

*Fermentation stops when the yeast don't have food.
Your hydrometer will tell you this. Reading lower than 1.000 and stable three or fgor days*

And:

*Using simple syrup is better than adding dry sugar. And you will need to do it a measurable SMALL quantity first - so you can get the taste you want then extrapolate to get the right amount for the whole batch.*

*What is the sg now?
*
Ok, based on what you guys have said here, I now understand the sweetening process, this makes a lot of sense. You will let me know when it’s time to do this.

And this:
*
When to taste it be mindful of all the co2. 
Stir shake and let sit a while then taste.
*
If this is the stuff that I got a whiff of in the first batch I messed up, that stuff was awful. Did not feel good for about a ½ hour after that. Will definitely take note of this.

And should I take a reading? You mean unplug it, put some in the wine stealer and take the reading? Our PH reader wasn't in yet, they said it should be here Monday. Should we take that reading too?

It’s starting to clear up. There is about an inch of sediment on the bottom now. Had a little discussion with hubby about racking it, when the time comes, and he asked, what are we going to put it in? Had the answer.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 9, 2018)

opus345 said:


> Good lord woman, your going to burn the house down!



Ha ha. Nah. They're just little peppers. I should be able to substitute a few of these for the ones you listed though hey. From the sounds of what wildhair is saying, it's not so much about what it tastes like going in, will change to something else anyway. I do like the taste of the habanaros best. 

The ghost peppers are more for fun, like watching when folks actually take on the challenge of eating them. We have redneck days here. One of the contests involves eating hot peppers and spam. I won it one year but just can't get that spam down as quick as most these days. The peppers are nothing. And one of those peppers in with a roast gives it an incredible kick. 

At the end of the season, any peppers left get a quick roast and then ground up for pepper flakes... that keep us warm all winter.  

LOVE the hot peppers. I blame this on my grandfather. He used to love to see me squirm with his hot pickles. Showed him one day... no reaction, just took it like a trooper and have loved them ever since.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 10, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> Haha I always thought that 'senior member' told everyone you were over 60 years..



You funny.  Well like I said, someone or something has no idea of my skill level and based on your understanding... my age either! Isn't there something about addressing age with women... how dare you! Hee hee. Carry on, I have no inhibitions, 16 or 60, makes no difference to me. Its more about how we live each moment that I look forward to each day.

And no, my employment allows us to retire, fully pensioned at 55, as long as we have a combination of years of service and age. I've got the service, but a few more years to go to get to the age. 

So yeah, all in all, that whole "Senior Member" thing was just a tad confusing. Thanks to meadmaker, all cleared up tho. Are you good now too? Not a senior yet, really looking forward to it tho.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 11, 2018)

Haven't taken the new readings yet. Let me know when it's time. We should have the PH meter today as well, hopefully its in. This is what it's looking like...




From the guidelines, we were looking at waiting until the 18th to rack them?

* Rack again in 3 weeks. *(June 18th)* Make sure all containers are topped up.

Rack again in 3 months.
*
Should I just wait until then to take readings or is it important now?


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## wildhair (Jun 11, 2018)

You have it under airlock now, and a good amount of lees. I would wait until your ph meter comes in, or next week when you're ready to rack it. Then put some into the sg tube, test the sg, test the ph and rack it into a clean, sanitized carboy. Depending on the ph - you may want to make some additions to the wine when you rack it. I often rack it ALL into my fermenter FIRST - then test (sg & ph) then make any additions or corrections - THEN rack it into the carboy(s). I find it's easier to make additions/changes to the whole batch at once, plus you can stir the hell out of it and de-gas it. 

Once the sg reading is the same for at least 3 days, it's done fermenting. Hopefully it's around .990 when that happens. Check the sg each time you rack, too & write it down. 

CO2 is just the bubbles in the wine - it doesn't taste bad. It's what give fresh wine it's fizz. You shake it to get the bubbles to the top, then let it sit while they pop and dissipate. The* SO2* is the SULFUR Dioxide - that's what smells like rotten eggs and gives it the "off" taste. You also get that if you add way too much potassium metabisulfite.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 11, 2018)

No PH meter today either. He said his distributor was right out so they are waiting on his shipment. He said he will call us as soon as they're in.

Good information wildhair. We'll leave it then for another week and hopefully the meter will be in. We can get both readings then. Will post when I have them.


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## wildhair (Jun 12, 2018)

Don't you get Amazon deliveries there?


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## Wolfpup (Jun 12, 2018)

wildhair said:


> Don't you get Amazon deliveries there?



I'm sure we would. Have never ordered from Amazon, but have heard a few stories that make me a little hesitant o start. This guy said there aren't any PH meters in our area and Bob's search would validate that. Not sure who this guy's distributor is (hubby is in contact with him) but he is working on getting us one. 

Do you have a link for a good one on Amazon.. I could contemplate while we wait


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## Stressbaby (Jun 12, 2018)

Hard to beat Amazon Prime.


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## wildhair (Jun 12, 2018)

I try to buy local when I can, but sometimes what I want isn't available. I've never had a bad experience with Amazon. I've gotten a lot of different wine supplies there. I don't order enough to make the Prime membership worth the $$$, tho. Although - sometimes I sign up for it - get the free shipping on my order, then cancel it before the 30 day trail is over. But I'm cheap like that.

I have a Hanna, but it's kind of finicky, so I was looking at this one to replace it - 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071CMG5RX/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It also takes the temp at the same time and shuts itself off after 5 minutes. 
I'm sure everyone has a favorite one they love or hate & a reason why. Something is better than nothing..................usually.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 13, 2018)

I have a girlfriend that has Amazon Prime. She really likes it. She orders all kinds of stuff, even some groceries. She would most likely order it for me if necessary.

One of the stories that makes me hesitant, and I don’t think it was on this prime, but a coworker ordered one of those pull trolley things, to go around flea markets and farmers markets. She waited weeks only to find out that her order had never gone thru Amazon. It had linked her up to a different site and she had no idea it did that. Needless to say, no cart and a bunch of back and forth to get her money back. This kind of thing has just always made me a little hesitant.

We’ll give this guy until the end of this week and if it’s still not in maybe I’ll have my girlfriend order one.

What does that PH20 mean? The second one there, the 46.00 one. Funny, states that it’s “waterproof”. Would that not be a given?

Very interesting. Had no idea what they looked like. Thanks for that.

I probably would have ordered the wrong thing, and then the site would have hooked me up to some scammer and I would be without a meter and my money. Oh boy, I sound pretty jaded and it didn’t even happen to me. But have heard other stories as well.

This is great tho, gives me a good idea what we should be looking at and around how much we should be paying.

I really like your “no shipping cost” strategy as well. Thrifty is good!


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## wildhair (Jun 13, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> What does that PH20 mean? The second one there, the 46.00 one. Funny, states that it’s “waterproof”. Would that not be a given?


Not quite sure what you're looking at - the link should have taken you to a single item. I remembered you are in Canada, (right? ) so maybe the link didn't work right for Amazon, Canada. 

OK - I just went to Amazon Canada and the link I gave you did *NOT* bring up the item. Must not be available there. So - try this - 
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B071XFRLSN/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The ph scale only goes 0 -14, so unsure what ph20 is. Waterproof means it could be completely submerged in a pool, hot tub or fish tank. For wine you'd just stick the end in the liquid.

Like anything - when ordering from Amazon - look at the fine print. 
This one says - Sold by Preciva CA and Fulfilled by Amazon. 
Amazon often deals with other businesses to complete (fulfill) your order. Still - I've never had an issue with any of the businesses that sell on Amazon. You can also order a couple wine making books or other supplies and get free shipping.................maybe. ;-)


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## Chilkat (Jun 14, 2018)

How did the rhubarb wine turn out?


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## wildhair (Jun 14, 2018)

I believe it's in the secondary now - major ferment is over and we all anxiously await the clearing.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 14, 2018)

I'm more interested in the pH


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

18th today! Siphoned it all back into the bucket. Dumped out the sludge that was on the bottom of the carboys and cleaned them with water and some of that potassium stuff. Ready to be refilled.

Unfortunately no PH meter yet. Bob called his wine store this morning and they said nothing yet. He asked if it would be best if he just ordered one off Amazon and she said that might be a good idea. So to heck with them. I will call my girlfriend later today. In the meantime, here is the SG reading. Is it looking ok? It seems below the .99 mark. What does that mean? 

Got a taste while syphoning and while not a bad taste would like to add some sweetening. I have a bit in a cup sitting on the counter.


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## wildhair (Jun 18, 2018)

Looks like it's leaning against the tube a bit - but .990 means all the sugar has been consumed and turned into alcohol. That is what "fermented dry" means - and it's also why you think it needs some sweetening. The yeasties have done their thing! Now it needs time to clear.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

Hi wildhair, yes, I see what you mean. When I was turning it to get the picture it must have touched the side. Do you want me to get another reading? And it hasn't been bubbling for a couple of days, is it time to add the sugar or not yet? From what meadmaker was saying, it should be at .99 for three days, then some of that stuff to stop the fermenting. Or does it need to clear first?

I dumped out quite a bit with the sludgy stuff. Probably over an inch on the bottom so they will need topping up right? We have these from a local winery here, can you suggest which one we should use. The dark one is a sweet berry wine for dessert, if I remember correctly. Then there's a sparkling and a Frontenac Gris and just a wine. It might even take two of these bottle?


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

This is where we're at with the guidelines:

12. Rack again in 3 weeks. Make sure all containers are topped up. (June 18, 2018)
13. Rack again in 3 months. (Sept. 18, 2018)
14. When wine is clear and stable, bottle.
15. Wine may be sweetened to taste at time of bottling with sugar syrup (2 parts sugar to 1 part water). Add 2 stabilizer tablets per gallon (or follow directions on package if using powder) to prevent renewed fermentation. To preserve color and flavor, add 1 antioxidant tablet per gallon.
16. Age for at least 6 months.

So based on this, just taste a bit with sugar and put it back into the carboys for another 3 months and then we'll sweeten it before bottling.


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## wildhair (Jun 18, 2018)

No, another pic is not necessary. 
No, don't add sugar yet.
The stuff to stop the fermenting is the Campden tablets - 1 per gallon *or* the Potassium metabisulfite - 1/16 t per gallon. 
It would be a good idea to add some at this racking (some add it every rack). 

You can either top up with 'just a wine" (save the strawberry - you might want to use it to sweeten and add some flavor later)
OR - you can put the wine into a smaller container(s). I usually opt for using a smaller container. Don't use the sparkling wine to top up.


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## wildhair (Jun 18, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> This is where we're at with the guidelines:
> 
> 12. Rack again in 3 weeks. Make sure all containers are topped up. (June 18, 2018)
> 13. Rack again in 3 months. (Sept. 18, 2018)
> ...


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

What a great idea! It should probably fit into the big one and the two little ones now. And good to know, if we need some, use "just the wine" and save the berry wine for later, maybe. No sparkling. Sugar later. Okee dokee, off to sanitize the little bottles. Thanks wildhair.

Oh and is it absolutely necessary to add the campden stuff at this point. That stuff scares me. Each time I use it something unusual happens. I don't think it's fermenting anymore. Haven't seen a bubble in a couple of day and the day I did, it was more just a jiggle in the water on the big one. Little one has been quiet for a while.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

OK. Oops, it didn't quote what you said, but that's an OK to your second post.... 3 and 6 months from now.


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## wildhair (Jun 18, 2018)

I add the "campden stuff" usually at the time of the first racking, (now) then the 3rd, then again JUST before bottling. If you just use 1 tablet per gallon, crush it up then add about a cup of the wine to it, stir it until it's dissolved - you can pour it into the wine no problem. Give it a good stir and put the airlock in.

Since it's no longer fermenting, it's no longer producing CO2 making it susceptible to the unwanted invisible nasties. The Campden tablets release SO2 with fills the empty space and protects the wine. 

*Do not fear the potassium metabisulfite* - it is your fiend when used as directed. 

Usually by 6 months - if it hasn't cleared, i will give it an assist. Some folks are far more patient than I - they can let it sit and sit and let it clear on it's own.


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## Stressbaby (Jun 18, 2018)

Also, sorbate. Before you backsweeten you need sorbate 1/2t per gallon to go with the SO2. 

I wouldn't have any concerns topping with sparkling or the Frontenac Gris. Any carbonation in the sparkling will come out as it ages. Moving the wine around between different containers may risk oxidation unnecessarily.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

Oh my gosh, is that ever a lot of work. Very satisfying though.  But look what we have now. No additional wine was necessary... yet.



But now we have this little bit. Based on what you guys are saying, I guess we have a few options. Stressbaby, are you saying that I shouldn't have put it in different containers, like I just did, because it may risk oxidation unnecessarily. Oh boy, can you tell me what that means?

And I can switch it up again... if I must. Also, have not put in the campden, well the stuff I have is potassium metabisulfite, she said is was campden, just not the pills. I did sanitize everything with it though, including the syphoning hose, the buckets, the bottles, everything got a few squirts... so I'm sure a little bit may have gotten in there.

Wildhair, you say do the 1st and 3rd. I did put some in before we did the first racking and now this is the second, so then I can do it on the 3rd? I would feel very comfortable with that.

And sorbate before we backsweeten. Ok, I don't have that. I will get some before we backsweeten.

I just saw the picture on my desktop from three weeks ago. What a difference.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

Can I just add one of our bottles of wine to the little 1/2 gallon container? It will be different, very different and we could keep it separate from the other 7 gallons? Just thinking of some less labor intesive options.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 18, 2018)

Play with your left over.
Sweeten it in three glasses 
Do a taste test to see what you think tastes best. You don't need to worrie about sorbate for this test. It will be gone before it's an issue


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## Stressbaby (Jun 18, 2018)

You can do what meadmaker says, that's reasonable. I would probably just put that in a wine bottle. 

I think that SO2 schedule is fine.


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## wildhair (Jun 18, 2018)

It's your wine now - add what you want! I make a big batch of apple wine, I put a couple cinnamon sticks in 1 carboy ('cuz I like cinnamon & apple) none in the other - 'cuz my wife doesn't. Go ahead - experiment.

I don't add k-meta every rack - that's why the first & 3rd rack - only because I like to minimize the sulfites in my wine. Some add it every rack. 

I think Stressbaby was responding to my - don't use the sparkling wine comment. He's right, of course - it would degas before it was an issue.

Potassium Sorbate is what you need - it's added just before you back sweeten. You have time - your local wine shop should be able to have it by Christmas?

Campden tablets are a pre-measured version of k-meta (potassium metabisulfite)


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## Wolfpup (Jun 18, 2018)

Nice meadmaker, we love the idea of playing with the leftover. Great plan, way less labor intensive. We'll try some different honey and sugar amounts. The sweetened taste (a bit of honey) I had earlier was pretty good. We may have some drinkable wine on our hands. 

There must be quite a bit of alcohol in that. Our house smells like a brewery and my head did a fun little dance after all the tasting and syphoning. 

Pheew, ok, so we're good to go for about another 3 months? (with this batch). Have a few more obligations (family reunion) and stuff over the next couple of weeks but early July we should be able to get another batch going. 

Peppers are coming along nicely and rhubarb just waiting to hop into the hopper.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 19, 2018)

Lol look at my avatar. Imagine racking and tasting all of those. And don't forget the apple rhubarb , cherry, and cranberry blend on a different table, 8 varieties at once right now. I'm having closure issues with my strawberry, cran berry, and bochet. Can't bottle the bochet until I harvest more honey. Need to Caramelize some more to back sweeten with but teachers leaving for summer bought me out, they see my wife bring it to others and exponentially more orders come in. 
Currently sold out


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## Wolfpup (Jun 19, 2018)

LOL, just those five sentences exhausted me, not to mention I didn't understand bochet or carmelizing in the wine sense. Your avatar looks amazing. That's a lot wine to keep track of all at once. Like a full time job. I would consider you a professional. Selling award winning wine. Is that 13 carboys I see there and you have 16 total going? Holy....

Hubby and I were talking about how cool it will be when we have all day to play with wine. We love everything about it. A few more years and we'll be there. So glad we picked this year to start getting into it.

I can see this being a very addicting hobby, in a very good way.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 19, 2018)

Not sure how many carboys some are batch extra carboys. 
Bochet is a caramelized honey mead. 
And I am far from pro, lol I haven't even made a single grape wine yet and nothing bigger than 7 gallons. No selling, just a competitive soul, bigger, faster, better.


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## wildhair (Jun 19, 2018)

Yep, once you get started and a good grasp on the basics - it sort of gets rolling on it's own. Similar to Mr. Mead - I've got about 10 wines in various stages of clearing and bulk aging right now. Small batches all, but lots of variety. A couple months and I should be bottling.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 19, 2018)

I agree. Play with it. That is how I use my rhubarb wine. Most recently I blended Quince wine, Rose petal and Hibiscus wine with my Rhubarb wine. Naturally the rhubarb ratio was quite low compared to the other two wines added. Pour it into a glass with a segment of orange and mint leaf and you end up with a nice summer wine cocktail. Just like an Aperol. What ever you blend - spend some time working out the ratios. Try not to swallow all your little blends as you'll end up asleep before dinner.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 19, 2018)

OMG Venatorscribe, it’s almost spooky that you mention orange peel. Let me back up, The few sips I had yesterday left my head a little woozy, so needless to say, off to bed early last night and didn't get to respond to Mr. Mead and wildhair. At work this afternoon, contemplating what wildhair had said about the cinnamon (lots of cinnamon in my rhubarb pies) I was thinking that might be a really good idea, to add some

Then my mind started to question.... whether a cinnamon stick would stay intact in an already fermented carboy. Then, as minds do and based on the taste yesterday, it got me thinking about what some orange peel would taste like and is orange peel something you would put in a carboy at this stage.

Then a staff member approached and my wonderful daydream was over. Then to come home and see your post, yeah… very cool, spooky cool.

Another silly thing... poured the remainder of the glass (with honey), it was a fairly good size glass, into the ½ liter bottle with the extra, put a LID on it and put it in the fridge. If there was one thing I didn’t appreciate, it was the fact the wine was warm. Have never drank warm wine and I now know why. Almost like milk, it’s doable but just not right.

As I’m driving home (long commute) thoughts of wine come rushing in, thinking about the extra, in the fridge, with the LID on tight, and now with active sugars in a (hopefully) fully deactivated yeast. Then the OMG, am I going to go home to a bottle explosion in the fridge?

Got home, opened the fridge slowly, like a gargoyle was about to jump out at me and there it was, in all its innocence. When I undid the lid, there was a little decompression hiss, but all was well.

Oh, and the PH meter is on its way. Yes wildhair, from Amazon! To a normal town it would have been two days and my girlfriend didn’t think they would deliver to our place, but she placed the order, put in our address and it said it would be here in 4 days, so that should be Friday.

Probably way to much information but it was a fun wine day. All this, probably predictably so, has led me to a bunch more questions.

So the left over wine, we probably won’t get to the taste testing till this weekend, when we both have the time to leisurely sample our efforts. Is it okay in the fridge, or should it be at room temperature?

Can I keep the lid on it or should it have one of those water bottle plugs? In other words, will it explode in my fridge if I leave it as is?

This extra, with the PH meter coming on Friday, can I test the extra, with the added honey? Will it be reflective of what’s in the big jugs or should I take the sample from the big jugs? Just in case we decide to taste test on Thursday or something, should we save some for the testing? It would be easier than pulling it out of the big jugs.

And, to humor my daydreams, orange and cinnamon, at what stage would you add it and does it dissolve in the carboys or does it just get filtered out during the racking process? We will taste test both the flavors.

Oh my, that’s quite a batch of words. I’ll stop here.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 20, 2018)

Lol where did the Mr. Mead thing come from?
Yes the cinnamon stick will hold up and the orange zest should be fine,
With various sizes of car boys you can pull a gallon and discover. I wouldn't commit the whole batch, some times discovery isn't pretty.
If you think you would like cinnamon orange in a wine 
Joe's ancient orange mead is the only recipe I've ever really followed, i'll look for and post it to you. Its quick and easy, after reading the directions I couldn't not make it.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 20, 2018)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/joes-ancient-orange-mead.49106/


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## Wolfpup (Jun 20, 2018)

ha ha, wasn't exactly thinking orange AND cinnamon, was thinking more about trying orange zest in one taste and cinnamon in another. The whole orange and peppermint kind of sounds heavenly too but that sounds more like a topping thing. The cinnamon would be more stand alone with what we have.

And the Mr. Mead, well wildhair said it and it seemed to fit so followed suit. I'm a quick learner, generally. 

LOL, that recipe makes it sound so easy. Was it the "ignore the experts" that kept you away? It does seem a bit unconventional to what I'm being taught here but he seems pretty sound in his conviction that it will work. Might be a nice Christmas wine. I will file it in my wine folder. I think I'd like to try it at some point. My older neighbor, the one that used creek water, will love this.


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## wildhair (Jun 20, 2018)

Guilty as charged - I did use the Mr. Mead moniker. In my defense - it was a a show of respect. Perhaps I could have said Mr. Maker1? But seemed a little too...... "deity like" for my comfort. LOL

Confirm that cinnamon sticks will hold up, but you don't need many. I add 2 to a 3 gal carboy when I rack into the secondary (right after the BIG ferment is over) and typically take them out the next time I rack. I want the aroma and mild cinnamon taste to be a secondary flavor note - I don't want it to overpower the apple. There's a very long and informative thread on this forum on using zests and flavor packs - tons of info I intend to use as my own skills improve. WHEN, how much and for how long - you add these extra flavors will determine how much they impact the final flavor profile. And you simply leave it in the bottom with the "sludgy-stuff" (the lees) next time you rack.

Again - this is YOUR baby now - play with it. Make notes and try to do things in measurable ( and therefore repeatable ) quantities. 

Keeping it in the fridge with a lid on it is fine - it won't explode. There may still be fizz. Testing the ph on one of the smaller jugs or the sample will give you a very good idea of the ph of the entire batch. My suggestion - test it now, but wait until you rack the next time to make any corrections. Siphon it into a big fermenter, test it - then make any correction TO THE WHOLE BATCH AT ONCE. Then test again and put it back under airlock. 

There was a lot in there - did I cover everything?


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## Wolfpup (Jun 20, 2018)

Yes you did, thoroughly. All those niggly details are now settled. So when the meter comes I can do kind of a cursory reading and take the batch reading for adjustments the next time it’s racked.

if you happen to find that thread on zests and flavor packs, are you able to direct me to it. That sounds like an informative thread,

And I agree... Mr. Maker1, while fitting, is quite divine… whereas Mr. Mead is a strong moniker that has the respect I knew you were going for and mirrored my intentions, hence the replication.


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## wildhair (Jun 20, 2018)

Wow - you're as full of BS as I am! Ahahahahaha


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## wildhair (Jun 20, 2018)

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/making-a-fpac.44497/ Making an F-pac - tons and tons of info - Thanks Joe!


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 20, 2018)

wildhair said:


> Guilty as charged - I did use the Mr. Mead moniker. In my defense - it was a a show of respect. Perhaps I could have said Mr. Maker1? But seemed a little too...... "deity like" for my comfort. LOl



lol 
You pick a forum name " long " before you discover there will be a " long ".
Nick names are chosen for us.
Titles are truly earned. 
Mr. Mead, as nice as it rolls of the tongue, simply leaves me over rated.
Perhaps in a few years after a few more shows and state fairs I can earn it but for now Keith works quite well.


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## wildhair (Jun 20, 2018)

Keith it is then. And I generally just go by Red - the wildhair relates more to my inclination to pursue ideas beyond the realm of common sense. Occasionally.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 20, 2018)

And let's give credit where it's due.
Pup has raised the wine knowledge factor in her area by asking ordering and buying.
In a couple years she will become the go to person in her territory.


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## wildhair (Jun 20, 2018)

Indeed. And actually - the folks helping and explaining things to her - also helped me understand and clarify things in my mind. Never stop being a student - we all have more to learn.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 20, 2018)

wildhair said:


> Wow - you're as full of BS as I am! Ahahahahaha



Well he asked, we had to say something. And while throwing you under bus for leading me astray, I didn’t want you fully taking the blame if he was at all put out by our spin.

Never been labeled “full of BS” before though, but if this is what it’s about, so be it, guilty as charged as well.

I was actually very sincere in my comments though, you simply provided the words to springboard from. It’s been over a month now, that I’ve been following your directions/lead. That was an easy one to pick up on when you have been desperately trying to grasp wine directions.

Sounds like great teamwork to me. Hee hee.

*"Never stop being a student - we all have more to learn"*

Love this. My motto has always been that wonderful saying by the Buddha, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear”. But as you say, it’s important to never stop being a student, or that teacher will never have the opportunity to appear. Good stuff.

Meadmaker has been there for me since day 1, sharing my frustration, offering knowledgeable advice and inspiring encouragement, some really fun articles and making me laugh when I thought all was lost.

And you too wildhair. When I first joined, with only a massive rhubarb plant and a “desire” to make wine, I did not have a clue what was involved. I couldn’t understand any of the responses people were giving me and almost did a 360, heading out of the forum, thinking I was in way over my head and must sound really stupid. Was thinking maybe I needed to take a course at the college or something.

But both you guys have stuck it out, repeated yourselves over and over again until the smallest details have finally sunk into this blonde skull, enabling us to perform the actions needed to get this first batch of wine on its way.

For this gentlemen, I will always be grateful. People will know of the great Keith and Red, fondly known as meadmaker and wildhair, that had the wisdom and patience to give us our start.

Oh and since we’re moving on to a first name basis, friends and family call me CJ, hubby is Bob. Kids often refer to me as wolf lady due to the 186 lb timber wolf that has graced our presence for the past 9 years. He came to us as a butterball but the wisdom he has displayed has left me in the dust, hence, the pup part. Our 114 lb working line shepherd looks kind of wolfy too, well to kids anyway, so there’s the easily wearable forum name.

You guys both need to give yourselves a pat on the back, you make learning fun! And not forgetting each and every other person that has jumped in to help straighten out this mess. I read every word over and over, until I understand what's being said. Such a vast amount of knowledge has brought us a long way in a short time. A very impacting experience to say the least.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 20, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> And let's give credit where it's due.
> Pup has raised the wine knowledge factor in her area by asking ordering and buying.
> In a couple years she will become the go to person in her territory.


So 'wolfpup' is real ? No offence CJ, but there were occasions when I thought you didn't exist and that someone had started this thread to take the mickey. Or possibly (as happens these days) someone undertaking academic studies to monitor how people interact on the internet. Good on you for sticking with it. I hope you pH meter arrives soon. Then you have another little challenge - checking it’s calibration with the standard solutions. Cheers


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## wildhair (Jun 21, 2018)

LOL - I didn't want to mention the calibration part just yet............ 

I had a wolf when I lived in Idaho - mostly jet black with cream socks. Great animal, great with my kids. I'll have to see if I can kind a pic - that was in the pre-digital era.

As for the assistance - plenty of folks here have helped me out, explained things, given me ideas and tips. That's what the Internet is _supposed_ to do - connect people around the globe. Good on you for sticking it out - many more wines will follow.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 21, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> So 'wolfpup' is real ? No offence CJ, but there were occasions when I thought you didn't exist and that someone had started this thread to take the mickey. Or possibly (as happens these days) someone undertaking academic studies to monitor how people interact on the internet. Good on you for sticking with it. I hope you pH meter arrives soon. Then you have another little challenge - checking it’s calibration with the standard solutions. Cheers



No Mr. Scribe, I assure you, this is simply my wine learning process in action. We live a pretty active life style with our furry companions, an acre of land, working full time and family obligations. A simple life, up here in the Canadian outback’s and not much time for internet, let alone some kind of study to “monitor how people react on the internet”.

To me, an incredible example of finding the right place, (thru sheer luck) reaching out for help and receiving it. Like wildhair mentions perhaps, what the internet is supposed to do. These connections have produced 7 gallons of rhubarb wine sitting on our counter. I don’t think they would be there had it not been for the members on this forum.

And oh boy… here we go. Calibration and “standard” solutions. Standard to you, dare I say it, “old hats”, perhaps, hee hee (reference to senior member previously), another brand new experience for us. I sure do appreciate the one step at a time.

At around 9:00 am yesterday morning my girlfriend let me know that Amazon said… the order for my PH meter had been shipped. Don’t know where it’s coming from but it’s supposed to be here tomorrow. We’ll see. It’s the $17.00 red one that wildhair linked. It was 19.00 in Canadian funds.

She also shared that, much like wildhair, she had signed up for one order to get the free shipping and was too slow on the draw to cancel before they charged her credit card for the year. She said she doesn’t regret it with all the cool stuff they offer but doesn’t know if she’ll get it again next year. If everything comes thru ok, I may look at it. Maybe. 

We have the reunion this weekend, 4 hours of traveling there and 4 back but should be back late Sunday. I have Mondays off so that may be the day for readings. I don’t like planning too far ahead though; experience has taught me that the universe just laughs at my plans.


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## iridium (Jun 21, 2018)

I just want to say thank you for posting your journey and for everyone providing advice. I am still a relative newbie and learned a lot with this thread. Thank you for sharing.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 22, 2018)

Hi iridium, that is so great to hear that you, as another new person, are following along. I know sometimes I feel a little silly asking questions but this wine making seems so unique to what you are using and what the meter readings are saying.

I’ve tried to follow a couple of other threads and they get way over my head in no time. If this thread is helping others, it’s my pleasure to hear that you are following along and learning too. It’s so great to have the help of experts hey.

Have you made a batch of wine yet?


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## Wolfpup (Jun 22, 2018)

wildhair said:


> https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/making-a-fpac.44497/ Making an F-pac - tons and tons of info - Thanks Joe!



This hasn't been lost. Its been a long day, I will dive into it tomorrow.


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## iridium (Jun 22, 2018)

I have made a couple of batches of wine. I first started with kits and they came with pretty good instructions. I also got lucky and found this forum very early in my journey and read a lot before I really started. One thread I found was similar to your rhubarb wine only it was blackberry. So i ready that a couple of times before I made my first blackberry wine. I have also made a batch of Dave's dragon's blood which is another recipe on this forum. But that is about it. I am enjoying the journey so far that is for sure.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 22, 2018)

Yeah, it sounds like you took a good route. We probably should have looked into a wine kit before we delved head first into this. But it really was all about using our fruits, which are plentiful. The thought of a wine kit didn't even cross my mind, until I asked for one, instead of wine equipment and was quickly corrected. 

As a complete neophyte over a month ago, I look back now and just shake my head. How did these guys ever stick with me. But so happy they did. And from what I'm gathering, there's still a ways to go yet. It's ok, we'll get this done, one step at a time. And then on to all the other fun wines that have crossed this path. That Dragon's Blood looks great, it was also pointed out to me. Definitely on the "carboy" list. 

Have a wonderful evening.


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## iridium (Jun 22, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Yeah, it sounds like you took a good route. We probably should have looked into a wine kit before we delved head first into this. But it really was all about using our fruits, which are plentiful. The thought of a wine kit didn't even cross my mind, until I asked for one, instead of wine equipment and was quickly corrected.
> 
> As a complete neophyte over a month ago, I look back now and just shake my head. How did these guys ever stick with me. But so happy they did. And from what I'm gathering, there's still a ways to go yet. It's ok, we'll get this done, one step at a time. And then on to all the other fun wines that have crossed this path. That Dragon's Blood looks great, it was also pointed out to me. Definitely on the "carboy" list.
> 
> Have a wonderful evening.


You too. I have some rhubarb saved up in the freezer and my mom has a plant that is a great produce as well. So rhubarb is definitely on my carboy list as well.

I have found this forum to be amazing. I have asked some pretty basic questions as well and have received great responses, advice and insights. I hope to be able to provide back someday but still feeling my way right now. So i will be posting my journey with various wines to share the knowledge and information.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 22, 2018)

That’s great. I’ll look forward to hearing about your wines. I have 25 lbs of rhubarb iin the freezer that’s going to be a straight rhubarb, maybe we can do a joint brew and see how similar or different they turn out.

Apparently there’s a lot of oxalic acid in rhubarb. Have you got a PH meter? 

Its early Friday morning here and supposedly Santa Clause (aka Amazon) will be showing up in my town to deliver one today. I’ve heard some stories about good old St Nick and don’t know if I truly believe in him yet or not. We’ll see.

I don’t check our mail box that often but I’m a little excited about stopping there today after work.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 22, 2018)

Keep reading 
The things that are over your head are just beyond you current need, or progress.
As you continue, and issues arise the conversations that apply will make perfect sense.
Or at least enough sense that a couple more questions will clear things up.


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## iridium (Jun 22, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> That’s great. I’ll look forward to hearing about your wines. I have 25 lbs of rhubarb iin the freezer that’s going to be a straight rhubarb, maybe we can do a joint brew and see how similar or different they turn out.
> 
> Apparently there’s a lot of oxalic acid in rhubarb. Have you got a PH meter?
> 
> ...



I have a pH meter but it does not calibrate. I follow the directions but instead of quickly calibrating it sits and doesn’t do anything. So right now I am going to be looking for a new one. I will be interested to hear your experience with yours.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 22, 2018)

Well I’ll be… check this out!
*


*
Today, I've had an online ordering, change of heart. Everything I thought about Amazon is now retracted. The stories I’ve heard (from reliable sources) are behind me now. Those stories are their experience, not mine. 
 
Woo hoo, exactly what I ordered and only 4 days. Ok, that’s kind of impressive. 

Good job Amazon.


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## iridium (Jun 22, 2018)

Looks good. I enjoy amazon and getting little packages like that. Which meter did you get? I would like to check it out.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 22, 2018)

This is the exact one. wildhair pointed me to it:

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B071XFRLSN/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Just got a chance to sit down and take a look at it. It comes with these packages of stuff, apparently for calibrating it. It doesn’t look too hard. Just mix the different packages in with a couple of glasses of water and use the little screwdriver to set it to what it says. It's loaded with batteries and everything. Easy to read. 

It’s going to have to wait a couple of days before I really get to play with it though. Have a few more wifey obligations tonight and then I need to get a good sleep. Long drive tomorrow morning, early.


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## iridium (Jun 22, 2018)

Looks good. However, I can finally offer advice. YAY! I would make sure to property store the meter. In most meters, and in threads I have read on this board, you have to ensure the electrodes are kept wet. Also do not store in distilled water because it harms the meter over the long term. The meter's instructions should provide you with information on proper storing technique. You are going to be making a lot of wine so want to have a good meter around for awhile.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 22, 2018)

Great information iridium, thank you. It doesn't say anything about storing it in water but I'll take a better look once I get a chance to calibrate it. It comes in this great, thick plastic case that holds it and the screwdriver nicely. It does say that after prolonged periods of not using it that it has to be re-calibrated again.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

My goodness, this summer is just full of social obligations. Finally got an hour to myself.

So just did the calibration on this PH meter. Not as easy as it sounded. 250 mls of distilled water in 2 separate cups. Mixed one with the red pack (4.01) and one with the green pack (6.86). The temperature had to be 25 C.

Did the green one first and it was sitting on 6.46 so gave it a few turns and it settled nicely on 6.86. Cleaned off the meter with distilled water and then tested the red one. It was exactly at 4.00, which it says it should be, on the back of the pack.

So my question, does the wine have to be at exactly 25 C to read properly?

We still have the "extra" in the 1/2 litre bottle but it's been sitting in the fridge, so probably much colder than 25 C. The other 7 litres is sitting out, so probably more around room temperature. I took the "extra" out of the fridge about 10 minutes ago. Can I test the extra? And can I test it now or should it be at 25 C?


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## Stressbaby (Jun 27, 2018)

You shouldn't have to adjust your temp to 25C and it won't affect the reading that much anyway.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

Ok, left the extra out overnight and just took the reading.




3.47. Have no idea what this means.

When I washed it off, just for fun, I tested our tap water and it was 7.30. Now I want to go test a few other things.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

iridium said:


> Looks good. However, I can finally offer advice. YAY! I would make sure to property store the meter. In most meters, and in threads I have read on this board, you have to ensure the electrodes are kept wet. Also do not store in distilled water because it harms the meter over the long term. The meter's instructions should provide you with information on proper storing technique. You are going to be making a lot of wine so want to have a good meter around for awhile.



The meter has a cap on the bottom of it. I put some tap water in the cap and put it back on the meter and put the meter in the case. Are you able to direct me to the thread that talks about how to store these. Does this sound like a good idea? It doesn't say anything in the instructions.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 27, 2018)

I don't have an answer to that but it doesn't take much to test so try it both ways, test it cold then warm it and compare.


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## iridium (Jun 27, 2018)

If you go to equipment and sanitation forum and search for ph meter you will get a few threads about storage issues. I can’t figure out how to copy a thread link in the app so I will try to post a couple links later today.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 27, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> The meter has a cap on the bottom of it. I put some tap water in the cap and put it back on the meter and put the meter in the case. Are you able to direct me to the thread that talks about how to store these. Does this sound like a good idea? It doesn't say anything in the instructions.


After use, rinse the glass electrode and gently dry it with a tissue ( poking it up and around). Then put the cover back on and pack it away until you need it again. Your final pH is good. Just for a thrill ! The next time you extract any rhubarb juice - measure the pH before you make any additions. I got a pH of 2 with my raw juice.


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## Johnd (Jun 27, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> The meter has a cap on the bottom of it. I put some tap water in the cap and put it back on the meter and put the meter in the case. Are you able to direct me to the thread that talks about how to store these. Does this sound like a good idea? It doesn't say anything in the instructions.



I don't know anything about your particular meter, but for most decent meters, the typical recommendation is to rinse it off with DI water, and store it in the cap provided with pH Meter Storage Solution. The solution will protect the sensor on the meter and preserve its life expectancy.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 27, 2018)

Johnd said:


> I don't know anything about your particular meter, but for most decent meters, the typical recommendation is to rinse it off with DI water, and store it in the cap provided with pH Meter Storage Solution. The solution will protect the sensor on the meter and preserve its life expectancy.


I agree. But these cheap units are not high quality electrodes. The recommendation for these 'pencil' pH meters is to store dry. The other recommendation is to toss them every year and get a new one. But - thinking about it now - most analytical labs would replace their electrodes at least once a year, depending upon use.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

iridium said:


> If you go to equipment and sanitation forum and search for ph meter you will get a few threads about storage issues. I can’t figure out how to copy a thread link in the app so I will try to post a couple links later today.


Perfect, just needed the right heading.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> After use, rinse the glass electrode and gently dry it with a tissue ( poking it up and around). Then put the cover back on and pack it away until you need it again. Your final pH is good. Just for a thrill ! The next time you extract any rhubarb juice - measure the pH before you make any additions. I got a pH of 2 with my raw juice.


For sure, will take the reading at the beginning next time, now that we have the meter. 

And are you sure the bottom cap isn't for storing a little water for the probes? Just got home from work, saw your post and emptied it out. It was all in there, nice and leak proof. 

Is there any good, all encompassing, beginner information on PH readings. I really don't know what your number or this one means. And a few weeks back someone asked for the PH reading of the soil the rhubarb is in. Can I measure the PH in the dirt with this?


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

Johnd said:


> I don't know anything about your particular meter, but for most decent meters, the typical recommendation is to rinse it off with DI water, and store it in the cap provided with pH Meter Storage Solution. The solution will protect the sensor on the meter and preserve its life expectancy.


This sounds perfect but it didn't come with any "storage" solution. There are the red and green packs, called PH Buffer Powder. It just describes their use for calibrating though. 

I did just rinse it off. It's been in the cap with a little water all day though. This seems like a perfect little water storage container for it.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> But these cheap units are not high quality electrodes.



Hmmm... first you call me old, now you call me cheap. Gonna give a girl a bit of a complex if you keep this up. 

We'll give this one a go for a couple of batches. By then I'll know what I'm doing and maybe we can find and invest in something a little higher quality. I have a feeling this is the first of many batches of rhubarb wine. It seems like a must have with the acids in rhubarb.


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## cmason1957 (Jun 27, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> For sure, will take the reading at the beginning next time, now that we have the meter.
> 
> And are you sure the bottom cap isn't for storing a little water for the probes? Just got home from work, saw your post and emptied it out. It was all in there, nice and leak proof.
> 
> Is there any good, all encompassing, beginner information on PH readings. I really don't know what your number or this one means. And a few weeks back someone asked for the PH reading of the soil the rhubarb is in. Can I measure the PH in the dirt with this?


PH is the measure of the hydrogen ions in a solution. It goes from 0 (most acid) to 14 (most alkaline). Distilled water is 7 wine is generally between 3 and 4. Whites around 3.2, reds 3.6. Why does it matter, the amount of SO2 you need to protect your wine is related to the pH. Lower pH less.

There is another related measurement of acid. PH is the amount of acid TA (Titratable acid) is the strength of the acid. Different types of wine tend to end up at similar TA. You need a test kit to measure it and some folks seldom measure it.

Can you use it to measure the PH of your dirt, sure, dissolve it in some distilled water and measure away. You should recalibrate your pH meter every time you use it, but I don't if I am checking a few days within the last time I calibrated it.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 27, 2018)

Wonderful explanation, thank you cmason. 

The less PH, the less SO2 needed. A more acidic wine would require less of SO2 because the acids would protect the wine more and this is the reason we test. Got it.

And how much dirt to how much distilled water. Make it like a mud, ½ and ½ or just a couple of tablespoons?


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## iridium (Jun 28, 2018)

If you are going to use that meter you need to make the dirt as liquid as possible to ensure the meter is taking an accurate reading. That meter is designed for liquids so you need to make the mud liquid.


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## iridium (Jun 28, 2018)

I take that back per google you probably want equal parts water and soil. Liquid enough to get a good reading.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 28, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Hmmm... first you call me old, now you call me cheap. Gonna give a girl a bit of a complex if you keep this up.
> 
> We'll give this one a go for a couple of batches. By then I'll know what I'm doing and maybe we can find and invest in something a little higher quality. I have a feeling this is the first of many batches of rhubarb wine. It seems like a must have with the acids in rhubarb.


Nah, your not cheap. Just the meter. I use these pencil pH meters and I am far from cheap. For the level of accuracy that we need they do an excellent job. The real expensive meters (used in analyical labs) are different in the sense that you can be working to finer levels of precision. But the thing is - their probes get 'tired' just as fast. So I keep mine for a year then if I start to suspect it's readings, I just order another one.


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## Johnd (Jun 28, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> This sounds perfect but it didn't come with any "storage" solution. There are the red and green packs, called PH Buffer Powder. It just describes their use for calibrating though.
> 
> I did just rinse it off. It's been in the cap with a little water all day though. This seems like a perfect little water storage container for it.



Here’s the link to a product, there are hundreds of others out there, just search “pH storage solution”. Any equipment worth buying is worth caring for. 

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/ph-...MIgri3gpf22wIVQwOGCh0Xwg7UEAQYCSABEgLYKPD_BwE


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## Wolfpup (Jun 28, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> I use these pencil pH meters and I am far from cheap.



Got lost in a few PH meter threads last night and while still a little unsure of exactly how they operate and the proper care instructions (seems a little debatable) there sure is a wide variety of them. It looked like they can go up as high as 500.00.

One thing I didn't see talked about were the batteries. If they are giving up after a year, maybe like fire alarms and clocks and things, the batteries need to be changed?

That's a great site johnd. Got lost in there for a while this morning. Was looking at other stuff to order to make up for the 30.00 free shipping and really liked the look of this book:

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/techniques-in-home-winemaking

And then found out that the shipping is only good for the US. It said Alaska too. How can that be? I'm right here, in the middle, way closer than Alaska. Our big brother neighbor always leaves us out of the equation when it comes to shipping costs. And then they charge extra cause our money isn't as valuable and well, a 10.00 bottle ends up more like 20.00. That is a great site though. I wonder if there is an equivalent in a Canadian site.

Now that I know what we're talking about with the storage solution, I will see what I can find around here. Thank you John.


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## Johnd (Jun 28, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Got lost in a few PH meter threads last night and while still a little unsure of exactly how they operate and the proper care instructions (seems a little debatable) there sure is a wide variety of them. It looked like they can go up as high as 500.00.
> 
> One thing I didn't see talked about were the batteries. If they are giving up after a year, maybe like fire alarms and clocks and things, the batteries need to be changed?
> 
> ...



I've seen our Canadian members chatting about suppliers in Canada, so there should be some available for you to purchase from, just don't know who they are. The book you referenced is excellent, many have read it and use it as a reference on a regular basis.


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## cmason1957 (Jun 28, 2018)

That is an excellant book. If you search for it on line you can purchase it directly from the author, who lives in Ontario and is a great guy.


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## Wolfpup (Jun 29, 2018)

Awesome. He’s done well with the cover and the name too. There were a lot of books there and that one was very attracting, well to me anyway. Jumped right into the virtual cart.

Was trying to find a Canadian site (not going well) and came across some site (thought it was his) offerings signed copies for 21.00. That sounded cool and like a good deal. Went to check out and the shipping was 17.00. With taxes, it was over 30.00. That was kind of crazy. Backed right out of there.

That drove me straight to Amazon. They are offering his book for 17.00 and they have some storing solution too. Not the one John recommended but would this stuff work:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0071AR9XI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

If so, my girlfriends getting another call.


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## Johnd (Jun 29, 2018)

That solution looks like it'll work just fine, and get some DI water from the store (distilled water) for cleaning your electrode between samplings and after use / before storage. I keep mine in a little squirt bottle for easy use.

Sure hope you're able to get the book, it'll be an invaluable tool for you.


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## Wolfpup (Jul 2, 2018)

Girlfriend is still out camping but have a message in to her for another Amazon order. 

In the meantime, a friend of hubby's called and asked if we had all our wine making equipment. Said no, we were probably just skimming the surface and getting what we need as we go along. He told us about this ad he spotted. I got a hold of the lady and look what we ended up with... all for 25.00.




It the beaker in the box with the wine cork covers or whatever those are called is a combination SG and "wine" alcohol meter too. There's labels in there and her book of recipes and a cool bottle washing system. Not to mention all the other stuff. Oh and her fermenter (well mine now) is the kind with the gallons showing on the side.

I know, probably not a big deal but it sure seemed like a great find for us. Just had to share.


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## Venatorscribe (Jul 2, 2018)

That is an outstanding haul at such a good price. The recipe book sounds interesting. Anything old and unusual ( the book ).


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## Chilkat (Jul 2, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Girlfriend is still out camping but have a message in to her for another Amazon order.
> 
> In the meantime, a friend of hubby's called and asked if we had all our wine making equipment. Said no, we were probably just skimming the surface and getting what we need as we go along. He told us about this ad he spotted. I got a hold of the lady and look what we ended up with... all for 25.00.
> 
> ...



That's a big deal. That's how I started my brewing again. Great score!


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## Wolfpup (Jul 2, 2018)

Venatorscribe said:


> That is an outstanding haul at such a good price. The recipe book sounds interesting. Anything old and unusual ( the book ).



Digging further into the note book, not a whole lot of recipes. More instruction and things like "Notes for Bottling Day". Very informative.

There is no rhubarb recipe and strange, in her alphabetized recipe holder (which is filled with wine labels) there is no R. Of all things, hey.

She does have an Onion and a Pumpkin recipe. Those struck me as a bit odd.


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## meadmaker1 (Jul 3, 2018)

Sounds like you got the fever to me.
Great haul.
Your batch should be starting to get clear, and looking good.


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## Wolfpup (Jul 3, 2018)

Hee hee, me thinks you're right. Things seem to be coming together nicely. It just feels right to be pursuing this hobby. We are both really enjoying the adventure.

Here's what the wine is looking like today. No, I have not put it away yet. It seems to enjoy being on the counter. A dark closet, shut away in another room, just doesn't quite feel right yet. Maybe once the next batch gets started...




It doesn't seem to have changed much and maybe a bit hard to see here but it's getting a bit more sediment on the bottom. The top part, up in the neck, is looking pretty clear.


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## Wolfpup (Jul 12, 2018)

Almost finished these 74 pages. https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wredw.pdf

Very informative even though this isn’t a red wine. Thank you Ajmassa. Along with the info from cmason, PH readings are making a lot more sense now, as well as a few other things.

Not crystal clear and I can still see questions on the horizon, like the whole gases issue, but a very good read. And speaking of apparent good reads, look what arrived yesterday!




Girlfriend had some issues ordering the PH meter solution. The one I gave her also didn’t ship in Canada, despite being on the Canadian site (geez, our little liquid bottle container rules. You should try boarding a plan here. A bottle of water could have you swimming to your next destination).

She was hesitant to order anything different as she didn’t know what it was. We finally got together last Thursday, selected a different one and got both items ordered. The book came yesterday but my PH meter nodes are still dry. She said the stuff has been shipped, just hasn’t got here yet. Maybe today.


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## abrewkat (Aug 31, 2018)

Just found this thread when searching for "crabapple". I do however have a batch of rhubarb wine on the go right now-clearing, as I just started mine in July. So many great tips here!!! This is my second batch, the first we decided to try the "old fashioned German" version, which included 3/4 oz bruised ginger and 3/4 oz cloves per gallon. We managed to produce 5 gallons of a very effective oral anaesthetic, although it was quite nice when mixed with warm apple cider! Things would be done differently if repeated.

As to Canadian suppliers (I'm near Medicine Hat, AB), there is one in Calgary that I've ordered from a couple of times. They have quite a range of yeasts and additives and flavourings, and etc, and shipping wasn't completely ridiculous. http://grapestoglass.com/

One note about the pH meter- I work in a lab and in a pinch we have used half and half of the 4.0 standard calibrator and a KCl solution. I'm sure you got the storage solution though by now. 

I am just getting ready to harvest my rhubarb for the second time. And pick the rest of my Concord grapes, hopefully there will be enough room in the freezer with all the sour cherries in there already. 

Good luck with the rhubarb, I am excited to see how yours turns out, AND how mine turns out!!

And a big THANK YOU to all the posters here, i have been well entertained and informed for the last couple of hours!!

PS. Does anyone know if you can use the calcium carbonate to counter the oxalic acid after fermentation???


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## Venatorscribe (Aug 31, 2018)

Is your rhubarb too acidic or is it the teeth clenching effect and after taste of the oxalic acid. I like your comment about producing an effective oral anesthetic. I think we have all done a few of those. At the present moment I am drinking a less than agreeable Quince and Apefwine . Such is life. I will drink it - just not share it.


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## meadmaker1 (Aug 31, 2018)

3/4 oz per gallon cloves. WOW. 
I think 1 or 2 cloves per gallon if you really like clove.
Have work now but will find and post a link on removing some acid and post later


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 31, 2018)

I should have posted earlier on this thread (sorry). The leaves on rhubarb contain oxalic acid and is considered toxic (not poisonous). As the season progresses, the oxalic acid in the leaves starts to travel down the stems. This is why it is not recommended to harvest after June. I've known of cases where people have become sick (gastric wise) after eating rhubarb harvested in September. I do not know if the acid would effect fermentation, but as the season progresses, the acidity will increase. Just thought I'd throw this tidbit out and if someone else mentioned this, I missed it.


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## abrewkat (Aug 31, 2018)

Dennis Griffith said:


> I should have posted earlier on this thread (sorry). The leaves on rhubarb contain oxalic acid and is considered toxic (not poisonous). As the season progresses, the oxalic acid in the leaves starts to travel down the stems. This is why it is not recommended to harvest after June. I've known of cases where people have become sick (gastric wise) after eating rhubarb harvested in September. I do not know if the acid would effect fermentation, but as the season progresses, the acidity will increase. Just thought I'd throw this tidbit out and if someone else mentioned this, I missed it.



Well, that's interesting, thank you for sharing! I wasn't aware of that. I did harvest 80% of the growth in June, and what's there is new growth, but it has been pretty warm since then, I wonder if the oxalic acid movement is time or temperature related. I will have to pick up a TA kit sooner than later it seems.


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## abrewkat (Aug 31, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> 3/4 oz per gallon cloves. WOW.
> I think 1 or 2 cloves per gallon if you really like clove.
> Have work now but will find and post a link on removing some acid and post later



Yes, it was definitely clove wine, not rhubarb. I do not recommend that amount of cloves!!


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 31, 2018)

abrewkat said:


> Well, that's interesting, thank you for sharing! I wasn't aware of that. I did harvest 80% of the growth in June, and what's there is new growth, but it has been pretty warm since then, I wonder if the oxalic acid movement is time or temperature related. I will have to pick up a TA kit sooner than later it seems.



I don't know of any research that was done on oxalic acid movement vs. temperature and time. I did find this interesting article highlighting oxalic acid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/science-molecule-of-the-month-oxalic-acid-1592018.html


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## meadmaker1 (Aug 31, 2018)

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2009/09/rabarberwijn-1-rhubarbwine-1.html
Here it is.


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## abrewkat (Aug 31, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2009/09/rabarberwijn-1-rhubarbwine-1.html
> Here it is.


Oh! I actually saw that a few pages back in the thread, thank you! I may have to try that on my next batch!


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## meadmaker1 (Aug 31, 2018)

@abrewkat i probably posted it in this thread before, there is some other good info there also.


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## Port Jerry (Aug 31, 2018)

Wolfpup said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> We have a rhubarb plant (just one) that is over 25 years old. This thing produces enough rhubarb for our small community and I still end up composting a bunch in the fall.
> 
> ...


Hi Wolfpup,
You can start a lot simpler than some of the other posts.
I've been doing it for 5 years. 
This is what I did this summer 
27 lbs of rhubarb before freezing(I don't chop it fine about 1/2 in sq chunks) use 1 gallon freezer bags, any bigger and it takes too long to thaw. A patato ricer works as a press. 
My yeald was 2.75 gal juice. I added 3.75 gal of water. 
I use a 7gal plastic waste basket as my primary fermenter 
Add less than a 1/8 sodium metabisulphate to kill unwanted yeast.
Let sit at room temp for 24 hrs but not a lot longer. I learned the hard way letting it set 3 days. 
I needed more than just the 7 gal waste basket when I added 13 lbs sugar.
At room temp I spread the yeast over the tops and gently stirred it in.
Covered it with cloth. 
Next day it was starting to ferment.
Day 3 going good. Room was about 72 deg. 
8 days later it slowed to were I siphoned it into the secondary fermenter, carboy, and put an air lock on.
Two weeks ago I racked it a second time. 
Siphoned into my plastic primaries, cleaned the jug and siphoned it back to the jug. I will bottle it in October. 
You will need to figure out quantitys that work for you.
Good luck


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## Wolfpup (Aug 31, 2018)

Hi everybody, I must apologize for not posting sooner. Busy summer here and I’ve just been deployed from my regular job to help out at our wild fire center for the next two weeks, starting Monday, which was supposed to my long weekend. Thoughts of a brief reprieve quickly vanished. Some fun was had when a bunch of friends descended on our home for a wet and wild weekend of river tube running.

As for the wine, check this out….





Placed a jar of pink sea salt behind the glass jug to show how clear it is.

Hubby said last night, I think it’s time to bottle this stuff. I said I don’t know, the guideline says not until middle of September. Then he said, well can’t you ask your friends on that wine site. And it was… OMG, the wine folks! 

In amongst everything, we did rack it again on July 20. There is currently little bit of sediment on the bottom. At that time I put in ¼ tsp of that Meta stuff. And if there's one thing you guys taught me well, it was...Take a reading at every stage and record it. These were the readings at the time:





Had to fill the wine stealer to the top because the SG reader hit the bottom. It did float with the full tube. And recalibrated the PH meter. We had ourselves another little taste. I put a little honey in mine and hubby put too much sugar in his. We liked the hint of honey. It was such an interesting taste, we both REALLY liked it. I think that's why hubby is anxious to bottle, he just wants to drink it.




Needless to say was going to post that night but our testing and all the work had us in bed in no time and it’s just been a whirlwind of non-stop since.

Haven’t had that leisurely opportunity to sit down with the book either. Maybe some nice winter reading, we’ll see.

So we’re wondering, does this look ready to bottle or are we still waiting until the guideline mark of September 18?


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## Wolfpup (Aug 31, 2018)

Port Jerry said:


> Hi Wolfpup,
> You can start a lot simpler than some of the other posts.
> I've been doing it for 5 years.
> This is what I did this summer
> ...


Hi Jerry, this looks like a great recipe, nice and simple, where were you 3 months ago. We are pretty happy with the way things are going with our batch too.


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## Wolfpup (Aug 31, 2018)

Dennis Griffith said:


> I should have posted earlier on this thread (sorry). The leaves on rhubarb contain oxalic acid and is considered toxic (not poisonous). As the season progresses, the oxalic acid in the leaves starts to travel down the stems. This is why it is not recommended to harvest after June. I've known of cases where people have become sick (gastric wise) after eating rhubarb harvested in September. I do not know if the acid would effect fermentation, but as the season progresses, the acidity will increase. Just thought I'd throw this tidbit out and if someone else mentioned this, I missed it.


Hi Dennis, I have heard this too. We've had this rhubarb plant for a long time and we've been warned several times....Never pick rhubarb in a month that ends in "R". Haven't put much thought into it, we are usually pretty rhubarbed out by September. We do eat it all summer though, July and August too. Interesting about the gastric issues. Not something we've experience but I think we have pretty hardy systems. 

Great info though, expands on what I've always thought was more of an old myth or something.


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## Wolfpup (Aug 31, 2018)

abrewkat said:


> Just found this thread when searching for "crabapple". I do however have a batch of rhubarb wine on the go right now-clearing, as I just started mine in July. So many great tips here!!! This is my second batch, the first we decided to try the "old fashioned German" version, which included 3/4 oz bruised ginger and 3/4 oz cloves per gallon. We managed to produce 5 gallons of a very effective oral anaesthetic, although it was quite nice when mixed with warm apple cider! Things would be done differently if repeated.
> 
> As to Canadian suppliers (I'm near Medicine Hat, AB), there is one in Calgary that I've ordered from a couple of times. They have quite a range of yeasts and additives and flavourings, and etc, and shipping wasn't completely ridiculous. http://grapestoglass.com/
> 
> ...


Hi there abrewkat, oral anesthetic made me laugh. That sounds totally like something I was expecting to create. Did have a big doozy mistake but the drain didn't complain and all evidence easily washed away. All the work involved teaches those lessons quickly though.

I did get the PH meter solution, nodes are staying damp. It did take a couple of weeks. I don't know what the problem was but was excited when the little, bitty tiny bottle showed up. Pictures can be so deceiving. I will check out the website you linked. 

Good luck with your crabapple search. I have a tree too. We've eaten lots though and its a young tree. Chopped up with yogurt and honey, very refreshing. 

Oh and that article Meadmaker posted, the woman that wrote it seems like quite the scientist. Her techniques sure look like they take care of the oxalic acid thing.And a great read. I've got 25 lbs of frozen rhubarb from earlier this summer. It may be a winter venture now.


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## Venatorscribe (Sep 1, 2018)

You are getting real close to it. Probably time to start planning your back sweetening program. Then after that a couple of racks and you are there. Smart move re the honey, also experiment with brown sugar and white sugar to get the flavour you want. If you intend to 'sparkle' then use Erythritol. I am sure 'meadmaker1' and a couple of the other guys will guide you through that. BUT your fires are more important at the moment. If you come across any of the Kiwi or Ozzy firefighters over there helping, give them a a couple of cold beers. Cheers Craig


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## meadmaker1 (Sep 1, 2018)

Good to hear from you. 
Was thinking about you as i was racking my apple rhubarb, started around the same time as yours. I was intending it to be a quick to drink batch but life happened and im just getting back to it. 
Im liking the tartness rhubarb is adding to the batches ive done lately. ( used rhubarb in place of lemmon, in a mead version of dragons blood- and added to yellow plumb batch recently started ). 
It always seem to push its companion forward.
I recomend racking your wine off of the sediment. And keep an eye out for it after racking. Youve put a lot into this, you dont want to end up with dust in your bottles 
Perhaps sweeten and bottle one of your topping jugs. That will satisfy the urge to bottle and buy you some time.


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