# Maine vineyard



## bilbo-in-maine

I've been working like a dog clearing trees, grading by hand and preparing soil, planting posts and now rigging support wires - all in order to try to grow wine grapes in an environment where you'd think they have no business trying to grow! The weather has treated me very kindly and signs of spring have arrived earlier than usual. My wife actually put in some onions and early lettuce today, a gamble that this kind of weather dares one to try.

I should have taken several photos of the original site conditions, but there were a lot of trees. The beginning shot is 3/4's of the way along in terms of clearing. The site is adjacent to the old chicken shed.

BEFORE






PROGRESS





AFTER





I took additonal shots as I did a walk-around of the vineyard area today. There are 5 rows running east-west, all reducing in length by one bay going from south to north. Post spacing is 14'. The southernmost row is 5 bays, the northernmost is 1 bay. This arrangement fit the available area, worked pretty well to avoid remaining trees that could shade the site, and left some room at the west end near the house for a new vegetable garden (hooray says my wife!)

VIEW EAST




To the right of the brush pile the ground slopes steeply down to a small quarried area. Granite was removed for some of the local building projects over a century ago. The piece of rock left of the brush is about 11' long that my son and I hauled up the slope on Friday to cap a small retaining wall I need to finish. It is the largest, but typical, of much of what the quarry men left behind when they left this site.

VIEW SOUTHEAST




The drop into the quarry starts at the far edge of the cleared ground. The local road is to the left, our driveway is behind me.

VIEW SOUTHWEST




Each row lengthens by one bay toward the southwest as viewed from the northeast.

VIEW WEST




The 5 rows can be seen. The near ends are braced down to earth anchors with wires running to buried concrete blocks. The far ends are braced within the bay to allow easier walking around the ends of the rows.

VIEW WEST-SOUTHWEST




Some of the quarry area with house beyond.

VIEW NORTH-NORTHWEST




The embankment down to the quarry is in the foreground.

VIEW NORTH




The quarry area has several vernal pools which usually dry up at end of summer. This year things are REALLY dry and there is not much water for the dog to hunt frogs in.

HOUSE EAST END




What's this have to do with the vineyard? Nothing. It's just on the way as I circled it.

HOUSE &amp; GARAGE




Climb out of the quarry area to the house and front lawn. Vineyard is around to the right.

EARLY GARDENING COULD BE RISKY




Walk up from the lawn and back to the vineyard.

Hopefully my 26 vines will be delivered in three weeks. The soil is prepared and I only need to finish rigging support wires, pounding in training stakes at each vine location and seeding the strips between rows and around the perimeter with red fescue as a groundcover. If the springlike weather holds, things will be good indeed. BUT, you never know when a spring snowstorm may strike. They happen all too often. More to come when the vines arrive.

Bill


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## Dean

Looking great! I'm quite jealous! Best of luck Bill! I'm holding out for no more snow for you! Being from the Prairies of Canada, we basically wait until the long weekend in May to plant because we are too scared of freak storms. Since I have moved to the west coast, that doesn't happen anymore. I sincerely hope your new vines and garden flourish!


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## OilnH2O

Looks great Bill!


Greenin' up here in Montana too


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## Angell Wine

Looking good there. I cut back my vines when i planted them. Took the cuttings and progated them.


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## rshosted

Man those rows look great! Awesome work, and from someone who put up two small rows, I understand the work you really put into that! I am really impressed by all the work you have done, they look very professional. Especially to remove trees of that diameter; wow!

I wonder why you ran your rows from east to west? Do you have breezes that go that way, or is it becuase of the terrain?

I decided to put mine in north to south to let them catch as much sun as possible, but I have a shorter growing season than warmer climates (here in Utah). 

I am jelouse, I wish I had that much room. Again, good work I'm sure your hard work will pay off. 

Also, you haven't named your vinyard yet? What about that!




-Ryan


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## masta

Excellent job Bill on setting up the vineyard...I can see lots of work went into getting those trees cleared and the posts setup. 


I am way behind on getting mytwo rows setup and really need to get something done this week as I know the vines will be showing up soon.


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## rgecaprock

Wow!!!! What a beautiful place you have!!!!!!


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## OldWino1

Looks like a pro great job and I wish you a boutiful harvest of the fruits of your labor. Just think you will have bottles years old from your own vines. 2 kewl 2 kewl oh and the house looks very nice also. *Edited by: OldWino *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Ryan - Summertime prevailing wind direction is southwest. I decided to 
go east-west primarily due to the geometry of the available unshaded 
space. I just couldn't get as many vines in running them north-south. 
There are still tall trees that shade portions of the site, and they would 
have an effect on one or two side rows planted north-south. I don't want 
to cut the trees. Hopefully I can stay on top of cane placement and cluster 
exposure to keep the sun on them - several years from now.




Mountfort Ridge is the name, chosen long ago. We live on Mountfort 
Road, on a granite spine that descends from a higher area of open ledges 
where quarrying was done in the 19th century. 

Angell Wine - I want to propagate several new vines too. I put up extra 
trellis space just for that reason. Do you have any tips? I will be refering 
to the propagation guide posted by Northern Winos earlier this year.

Thanks to all for your comments!


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## djcoop

Beautiful property Bill. Great job!!


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## jobe05

Bill: Great looking vineyard and beautiful setting were you live. Because I live in the south, I'll would love a retirement place like you have in the north, it'll give me a place to go to cool off in the summer.


Are your vines in yet? Post more pics.....


Masta..... How about your Vinyard, update?


I planted a couple og muscadines yesturday and propagated some scuppernogcuttings, will post pics later.


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## grapeman

Hey Bill,


How is the vineyard and garden coming? Has all the rain the last month hindered you or is everything in and growing? I finally got hte rest of the garden planted today. I set out 200 tomatoes and about 100 peppers. We like to do a lot of canning for pasta sauce in the winter. My vines I have planted are doing pretty well. The ones I started in the greenhouse from 1 year rooted cuttings are doing especially well. The 3 weeks of extra heat really made a difference. When I planted them, there was a lot of new root growth. I planted them the same day as some bareroot rooted cuttings in good shape. The ones from the greenhouse have about 10 inches of vine growth. The plain bareroot plants have about 2 inches of growth. I think if space were no limit, that is the way to go(starting for a few weeks in pots).


Put some new pics up!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Hey back at'cha Richard, and thanks for asking




My vines were started in pots, which Andy Farmer at Northeast Vine keeps in 
his greenhouse until early June. I have arranged with him to pick them up 
next weekend rather than have him ship them the following week. It will give 
my wife and me a chance to get in a weekend camping trip to Vermont and 
save on shipping charges. The vines come rooted in biodegradable pots and 
are all leafed out. I just have to drop them in small holes and the roots don't 
get disturbed at all (except for dusting them with Biovam (mycorrhizal 
fungus.) I will definitely post some pictures after next weekend.
I put out our tomatoes and peppers last weekend, but we started only 24 of 
each. In past years we've had trouble keeping up with 6 plants, but we didn't 
can. This year the surplus will go to tomato wine and a little canning.


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## grapeman

Bill, 


Did you take any pictures of the vines in the pots? How about any after they were set out in those beautifully constucted trellises? I'd be interested in seeing what the paper pots look like. When I decided to start some cuttings, I tried to figure out what to start them in. After seeing some of the type pots they use, I wish I could have found a source for a few to try. Oh well, there is always next year...






Richard


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## bilbo-in-maine

Sorry, I got home from our trip to Vermont at 2:30 Sunday afternoon (it was drizzling) and headed straight to the vineyard to plant. I didn't even think about getting pictures of the vines in the paper pots. Each pot is 1 3/4" square by about 6" tall with holes punched in each side. They feel a bit like paper milk carton material but not waxy. Planting the vines was easy - just dig the trowel in about 8" and pull the soil away to create the hole, drop in a tablespoon of Biovam and drop in the pot, then push soil around it and cover over with mulch.

I DID manage to take some photos two days ago (another drizzly day!) and offer them below.

I used pieces of oak branches for climbing poles (cheap) and made wire fabric cages to protect from marauding critters. The first shot looking east shows the vineyard beyond with a new espalier garden on the left. My wife has begun pear and plum espalier on a two-wire system. A few of the trees have begun to branch out from buds where they were cut off. We will mulch her rows also, then they will look better.






I imagine it looks like any other vineyard others have planted this spring, except with wire cages rather than grow tubes. My groundcover came in spotty so I am overseeding in some areas.






Here's a shot from a bit down the hill in the quarry looking at the retaining wall at the edge of the vineyard. I still have a lot of rockwork to do.






A shot looking to the west.






If you've ever wondered what a Frontenac Gris vine looks like, this is it in miniature form. There will be more to see once it is out of the cage.










Hmm, I think this one is a Landal Noir. It is typical of the general size of the young vines I got.






I felt a shot of the garden would be in order after seeing Scott's beautiful garden areas. Just beyond the stone toadstool we have arugula, lettuce, onions, and then jalapeño and sweet peppers under hotcaps, and finally tomatoes at the far end, too small to see. Down the slope on the right are pumpkins and yellow squash. 






If/when we get some heat and sun, and the vines do some growing, I'll post some progress photos. Might have some green tomatoes by then too!


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## grapeman

Things are looking good there in Maine.



It looks like the nursery did a good job getting the vines started and they had good weather for setting them out. Hopefully we can all shake these disturbing weather patterns and get down to a nice normal sunny warm summer. Your garden is doing good in spite of the weather.


Keep us posted on the little ones progress.


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## MedPretzel

Fantastic!





I am embarrassed to even take Vernon's (de Catawba) picture right now. He looks quite sickly.





M.


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## grapeman

Oh come on, go ahead and take his picture.



We all like to see each other's children don't we?



Nochild is perfect to everyone, only us, but we all like seeing each other's children(AKA grape vines/real children).



He may not be looking great, but it's not his fault and maybe we can offer some advice to help him out.


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## grapeman

How are the vines doing up there in Maine? Hope the weather has improved for you. We are finally getting a string of pretty decent days.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Using "Reply" to Richard's query - looks like George doesn't have the forum code fixed yet.

Progress pictures of some things we are growing. My wife started an espallier project with plums and pears. These are the first two shots:





A plum tree





A pear tree

Now for the vineyard. The Frontenac and St. Croix are quite vigorous and are outstripping the St. Pepin and Landot Noir. The Foch are somewhere in between. If you notice little greenish-white things hanging above the vines, they are quarter pieces of bars of Irish Spring - an attempt to keep deer off. I haven't had any trouble with them yet, but the Japanese Beetles and leaf rollers are having a field day. 





A Frontenac Gris nearing the top wire





A Frontenac midway between mid and upper wires.





The smallest, a Landot Noir that finally started moving this week - now all 25 vines are showing growth.





Shot looking west down several rows. The mid-wire is at 3', the top is at 6'.





I built this terrace on the embankment into the quarry. It has a fire pit at the near edge. The vines are just beyond.





A shot of the terrace 90 degrees around with the garden beyond.





The Brandywine tomatoes are up to my waist and producing a good crop.





The Romas, up just past my knees, are also doing well.

Watching all the various things grow makes summer time very enjoyable, and caring for them is challenging and rewarding. I keep thinking about two years from now when I should have the first crop of grapes, and traditional winemaking starts in earnest.


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## grapeman

Looking good up there in Yarmouth. The vines are really stretching. They are off to a good start and your efforts are really showing. If you can get ahold of them, rather than cutting bars of soap in pieces, the hotel bars of soap work grear. Leave the wrappers on and hang with paper clips like hanging a Chrismas tree ornament- a little trick taught me by a veteran 1000 acre McIntosh grower. 


Youmention Japanese beetles. We've never had them around here, they've stayed just a little south of us, but they made it the rest of the way up here on all the rain storms. I have been hand picking them off the young vines - some three to a plant. I then went to hand strip leaves off the older vines. Some of the upper leaves were gathering points for them- some had 25 to 30 to a leaf!




I don't use much pesticide, but I broke out the Sevin(carbaryl). Hopefully they are about past their busy time for this season and I never see them again!(Ya right



)


Keep up the good work and in a couple years you can sip a glass of wine off your mini-terrace!



*Edited by: appleman *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Japanese beetles continue to be a scourge, along with leaf rollers. The Frontenac especially are heavily attacked by the beetles. I squash what I can at the end of each day but there are plenty of reinforcements out there. I'm not at a point, though, where I want to start using a pesticide. Summer is almost over for this area. No trouble with deer, I'm glad to say. Maybe it is the soap, or maybe there is just so much else that's equally as good out in the woods and fields.

A violent thunderstorm rolled over us this evening, with wind gusts over 40 mph and heavy rain. It lasted close to 45 minutes and dumped close to an inch of water. After it eased, I walked through the vineyard. I've been conscientious about tying each leader and any long side shoots to poles and wires, and I was relieved to see that nothing had broken. Everything looked quite bedraggled but intact. Several of the pepper bushes had blown over and the lettuce is flattened, also the pumpkin leaves were plastered down. We haven't had a wind storm like this all summer, just a lot of rain.


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## NorthernWinos

We have been begging for rain in these parts....Went to Grand Forks, North Dakota today for some shopping and drove through the heaviest rainstorms I can remember....came home to a rain gauge reading .44/100ths.....our biggest rain in months....Couldn't tell how fast it had come down, things weren't blown around as we suspected they would be, we were just on the edge of the storm cell...it sure smelled good, like spring....every little bit helps, but too late for our corn and soybean crops...those are a failure this year...empty pockets for the next year....
Areas that we had driven through on the way home had gotten 1 1/2 inches in a very short time...the ground is so hard and dry the rain was running off the fields and filling ditches....
Maybe more rain over the next few days....will ease the hose dragging chores and help the growing things ripen...




My tomatoes are ripening, but there are mice eating holes in them as they turn color....I set a mouse trapline last night and have 2 large mice and one shrew caught already...hope to thin out the mice before the Muskmelons start to ripen...always have to share our crops to something, disease, deer, rodents, weather, etc...always something to take the fun out of it..


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## bilbo-in-maine

Well, we had a beautiful late summer day here in the State O' Maine, a good day to get some progress photos of the vineyard. The vines look to be growing still, although much more slowly. The leaf deterioration I saw 3 weeks ago on some vines hasn't really progressed much, and there is no leaf color change as there is on our table grapes.

A couple of general, overall shots followed by shots of individual vines to show the summer's growth.
Tomatos in the foreground can be ignored.











Here is the biggest, most vigorous Frontenac. It is up to the top wire at 6' and trained horizontally to the left another 6 or 7 feet. Its neighbor to the right is almost as big, seen encroaching from the right.






Just for comparison, I took a shot of the smallest Frontenac.






Now for the largest Landot Noir, up to the top wire and spreading out some each way.






Even the smallest Landot Noir is up to the top wire. This one was slow to grow most of the summer but made up for it in late August and is still going up.






Here is the largest St. Pepin. These vines didn't put on much vegetative growth but easily reached the top wire. The largest was turned laterally to tie down for safety.






Now for the Marechal Foch. They all put on a good amount of vegetative growth and all but one reached the top wire. This largest one was run laterally for another 5-6 feet.






The St. Croix vines are the second most vigorous and leafy after the Frontenac. The largest one had to be run laterally in both directions and also at the mid-wire level.






Finally, the Frontenac Gris. Each of these equaled the Frontenac in vigor and size, and seemed to be some of the most delectable to the Japanese beetles, you just can't see the lacework that they left.










When I planted the vines in early June I used a mychorrizal fungus product on the roots in each hole. Did it have a beneficial effect? I don't really know, but I'd like to think it did. The above ground vigor must be matched by vigorous root growth. The addition of rotted cow manure to the soil probably helped, along with adjusting the soil pH with lime and wood ashes. I've been mulling over how to feed the vines next spring and summer, and would welcome anyone's suggestions and comments. Pruning and training will be another topic when the time comes!
Bill


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## NorthernWinos

Thank You for the tour of your vineyard....it looks awesome...very nice indeed...You should be very proud!!!!


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## grapeman

Your vines are looking great. They are nice and uniform(relatively) in size. I think that shows they all grew up to their potential. I sure sounds like they received the best care possible. Grat job!







Did you see any new vines on any of the vineyard tours last week? If so did you get any ideas?


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## Waldo

I concur with wino....looks awesome. You have put in a lot of hard work there


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## rgecaprock

Bill,


I can just picutre you walking through your rowsin the moring with a cup of coffee admiring your vines. It is so beautiful there and your vineyard is 
awsome!!! 


Ramona


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## paubin

I just can't say it enough.... You guys are so lucky! I can't wait until I can show off Chateau Aubin Vinyards. Hopefully by next spring I will find a house up here that fits my families needs and can get started!


Pete


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## OilnH2O

I agree with Pete! 


Here is the Rattlesnake Creek vinyard here in Missoula last Tuesday -- they put out 'Range Ryder Red' and 'Moonlight' under the Ten Spoons label. About 15 acres of Marechal Foch, Pepin, Louise Swenson and some others. The pictures below are why I'd like to try to take a 10x30 stretch of backyard grass and turn it into about 6 gallons of must each year!






The picture below shows the winery in the background. They may pick this week.






Someone uploaded a picture of deer fences awhile back -- note the elk fence to the left -- that's 5 strands of electrical wire on top!








Not bad for Montana, eh?






Dave


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## NorthernWinos

Doesn't that look great....love it!!!! 
Those grapes are beauties!!!! 
Sure looks beautiful out there...enjoy!!!


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## grapeman

Dave, great looking vineyard. Those grapes look delicious too. And the scenery is so Western. Clear your spot, and I'm sure we will all offer to help you get the vines a growing!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Thanks NW, Richard, Waldo, Ramona, Pete, Dave (whew).

Richard - Yes, the Cab Franc we had was very good. I have no idea how it would do in coastal Maine. It may well need a longer season than I have in order to ripen, and may have to be protected during the winter. Something to look into. Next spring I will be planting some Marquette vines to fill out the rest of my vacant trellis space. Any more vines after that will require some more tree clearing.

Dave, your photos are very exciting, especially hearing of Foch being grown there. I would like to find a source for several bottles of the wine. I'm growing it but have never tasted it - actually I've never tasted any of what I'm growing! Such an adventure. 
As Appleman said, we would all love to see you get a small vineyard underway. It sounds like you have a good idea of the varieties you can put in. If you are serious about it, get it underway this fall by analyzing and preparing your soil, and even get trellis components ready to install, and get your vine order on someone's list so you ensure getting them next spring!
Bill*Edited by: bilbo-in-maine *


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## OilnH2O

Bill, 
Take a look at http://www.tenspoonwinery.com/and look especially at their description of "Range Ryder Red." It appears they will ship cases (from looking at their website) and their list of retailers lists only Montana and Wyoming locations (sorry, Pete! Looks like only in Jackson!).


But, it there is something in particular, I would be happy to figure out a way to getit to you -- just say the word.


Dave


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## grapeman

Bill 
This winery lists Marechal Foch. Edelweiss and St. Croix. They may have others, I didn't have time to check.


http://www.whiskeyruncreek.com/main.taf?p=4


Also remember the neighbor to the north -Quebec. They produce a lot of cold hardy wines such as Foch. Do a search for Foch Wine Quebec for a starting point. I'm sure you can find some quite a few places. Good Luck!*Edited by: appleman *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Dave - Thanks for your generous offer. You never know, I might want to take you up on it. I visited the Tenspoon website and enjoyed it very much. I even wrote an email asking for some general info. We'll see if Connie or Andy has time to answer. Obviously, if I can find a nearby source for Foch I will buy there, so I'm on the hunt.

Richard, thank you too for digging out Whiskeyruncreek. Looks like they will ship single bottles, but their blurb about Foch indicates that it is finished somewhat sweet. I will keep looking. You are right about Canadian sources, but I will have to buy from someone across the border next time I'm in Canada. I don't think they can ship to Maine. I have plenty of time to look, though.
Bill


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## bilbo-in-maine

Well.... I intended to prune these vines in several weeks, at least a rough pruning. From this point in the season, though, it sure seems like jumping the gun a little. Snow today a fair amount, blowing and quite cold - around 10 degrees. A very cold February has made up for a lovely warm three weeks in January, and right now there is no end in sight for winter weather. I think pruning will have to wait until I know the bitter cold is over and I can get an idea of how well buds have survived. The vines are coming into their second year so I need viable buds at the cordon wires.


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## grapeman

I hear you about the weather. Winter is really kicking in here to. The high today so far 0 degrees(at least it warmed up a little today), so far a foot of snow today with 2 feet expected- 35-40 mph for the next two to three days. Blizzard warnings and the surrounding counties including this one are shut down with a state of emergency(not sure what for). Expecting 6-10 foot drifts. 


I'm getting the itch for pruning season too, but don't expect it for another month or two. Yor vines are looking good and don't look like they will need pruning back much. Did most of them reach the upper wire?


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## NorthernWinos

Bitter cold????? Zero???That's not too bad guys....We've been -20F or below lately...that's cold Baby!!!!...But it could get worse in this neck of the woods.

Enjoy your pruning....











We'll be thinking of you....we won't be able to prune for many weeks...

I do have a rooted cutting under the lights...it has several leaves...my hope for 2007

Meanwhile....enjoy what you get...another day alive is always a good day!!!!


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## Waldo

Thats a fact NW. The worst day I ever had in my life was wonderful.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Most vines did reach the upper wire. Perhaps four didn't. Maybe a quarter of them all have not grown to the recommended pencil width diameter and I am probably going to prune them back to two buds, thinking it will be interesting to see how quickly they catch up to the larger vines. All but one variety will be trained to bilateral cordons on the lower wire in order to use VSP. Frontenac especially are supposed to benefit from this training as a method to control extreme vigor. I'm trying to callus some cuttings of St. Pepin and Frontenac Gris that I took in December. These, along with some Marquette vines, will be new plantings in May. Boy, it is hard to wait to get back to digging in the dirt!


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## NorthernWinos

This time of the year gets one wanting to be outside digging and planting....The days are getting longer, the sun has some heat...then you look at the calender, look outside and try to find something else to do....

The seed and nursery catalogs are such 'teasers'...I ordered my seeds and within that week they arrived from NY State....so...put them with the other seeds...looked for anything that might need to be started this early...looked again...put the seeds away ...and tried to find something else to do...

Went downstairs and looked under the grow lights....a few Geranium cuttings made it...only one grape cutting made it....the grape vine cuttings in the fridge didn't callus...planted 4 trays of lettuce, only one came up, but...which made the best salad of the season...Planted a few Aloe Vera suckers...looked through the seeds again for Geranium seeds to plant now...didn't have any...put the seeds away....found something else to do...

Cabin Fever????...maybe!!!


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## Angell Wine

This has been the first winter in about 15 years that has been (well like winter). I'm sick of it. Come on spring time.


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## grapeman

NW, It sounds like you have cabin fever bad up there! Hang in there gal, spring will be knocking at the door before you know it. I assume your growing area is in the basement or another semi-warm area and you have lots of grow lamps. Does your furnace have a flat top on it? If so, callous your cuttings there. Take a cat litter size plastic tub or dishpan and put about 6 inches of potting soil in it(moist of course). Place the cuttings in it, making sure you have the right end down. In about 10 days to 2 weeks they will have formed callous on them. If it isn't enough to see just a few hairs, put it back a few more days. When you get a few short hairs, plant them in containers and set under the lamps to grow. You want the top growth to start slow until the roots have a chance to develop more.


This should give you a little something to beat back the mid-winter blues.


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## grapeman

Hey Bill, when you got your vines in those little pots, did they have bottoms in them? I want to start my cuttings this year in some and I think Andy must use Zip-Sets. They have sample packs which include the trays and your choice of pot sizes. I probably will go with 2wx6d size, or 36 per sq ft. Any input of what you liked or didn't like about them would be appreciated.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Hey Richard,
Yes, Andy uses bottomless 2"X6" heavy paper tubes with perforated sides. As you probably know, the idea is to allow the roots to grow freely straight down so they won't spread laterally at a shallow depth. I don't think I can think of any dislikes about having used them. They seem a very sensible way of getting a plant in the ground. Very little digging is needed to prepare a hole for the plant - you just jam a trowel into the soil and pull it aside a few inches (I then sprinkled in some Biovam) and drop in the tube so it is buried slightly deeper than its top edge. There is little or no root disturbance.
I am hoping to take the cheap-o route this spring with my cuttings (assuming they start for me, it has only been a week so far) by putting them in peat pots from which I've cut the bottoms off and just drop them in as I did Andy's tubes.
Have you located Zip-Sets locally?*Edited by: bilbo-in-maine *


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## OilnH2O

Rich and Bill -- 


I'm_still _hoping to take you up on any _spare_ cuttings you have -- although I think I can get some from Andy at Tenspoons here as well. My little patch will be about 30' by 10' so it won't be much -- but it'll be a start! My wife wants me to plant some white varieties too...But it's a pretty small patch as it is!





We're in those "dark ages" between real winter and real spring here -- a skiff of snow this morning but 42 degrees F. the other day!





Bill -- were you ever able to get a bottle of Marachal to try? I can still pick one up and put it in the mail/fedex/ups etc. Just say the word...


Dave


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## grapeman

Dave,
Do you want cuttings, or some one year old plants? I don't have too much of a selection of one year vines, but have Frontenac, Buffalo,Chardonel, and Niagara. They are still under 2-3 feet of snow here, but spring is around the corner. I will have a better selection of cuttings than vines, but won't be taking any for probably a month until they thaw out. Somewhere under my posts I have a list of the varieties I have. It looks like you will have room for about 10 vines- plant two rows and space the vines 6 feet apart. Three posts per row, three vines,post at third vine,two vines(five per row). I am also looking at getting about 250- 300 zipsets to start some cuttings in. I could send some of those plants about June 1, if I can figure how to ship without them getting turned upside down by UPS/FEDEX.*Edited by: appleman *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Hi Dave - That's very good of you to remember that I was interested in a bottle of Foch. How about a swap? I send you lots of cuttings (soon so you can get them started) and you send me the cheapest bottle of Foch you can lay your hands on. Appleman's offer is very attractive, and probably you should take him up on it. He can offer much more than I can, although your vineyard area is small so you don't really need too many vines. If we both send you material, you will have much to choose from!
Bill

I should mention the varieties I have again:
Reds - Frontenac, St. Croix, Foch, Landot Noir
Whites - Frontenac Grix, St. Pepin (cuttings from these will be sparse since I only have 3 vines)*Edited by: bilbo-in-maine *


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## grapeman

bilbo-in-maine said:


> Hey Richard,
> I am hoping to take the cheap-o route this spring with my cuttings (assuming they start for me, it has only been a week so far) by putting them in peat pots from which I've cut the bottoms off and just drop them in as I did Andy's tubes.
> Have you located Zip-Sets locally?




Bill how many are you starting? Would you like some zipsets? I got a case of 2200 so I have a few to spare



. They ship flat, so if you would like some, they could be mailed in a big mailer envelope pretty cheap. I got a case of flats also, but you could just set a dozen or two in some kind of container- maybe find what size flat you need, throw a few pieces of wood together for a frame and staple some screen mesh to the bottom to keep air movement. 
Just say the word and they are on the way!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Richard, I am doing only 4 cuttings each of Frontenac Gris and St. Pepin, and they are now all in compostable posts with potting soil. I guess I'd better not disturb them, but I sure appreciate your kind offer. I'm shortly going to send Dave (OilnH2O) about a dozen cuttings, so maybe he would like some of your Zip-Sets. That would put them to good use.


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## OilnH2O

Had a consulting job in Santa Barbara for the last several days and just got home today from the airport only a few minutes after the FEDEX guy delivered the big box of Maine-FRESH cuttings from Bill! What timing, Bill!!!



THANKS!!!


And, now that I know what I'm doing tomorrow -- starting the callus process -- Rich, I'll figure out if I need anything more (YOU probably know that better than me



) . You'll be happy to know that I'm stretching my "vinyard" to 40+ feet and am thinking about plants 5' feet apart to get two rows of 8 (if that'll work...) -- ain't life grand???


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## bilbo-in-maine

Its been many weeks since anything was added to this thread. The vineyard is doing well at this point in June - here are a few photos taken today. All the vines are trained from the mid wire for VSP. This year the emphasis is on developing the lateral cordons on the mid wire. The lower tier of catch wires are all up and shoots are starting to climb toward them. Next year's crop comes from the laterals pushing up from cordons right now. The Frontenac (and Gris) and the Foch are the most advanced. Landot Noir is the slowest. Almost all vines produced flower clusters at the outset, but I've kept only a few on the Frontenac in an attempt to check their amazing vigor. As things developed I was surprised to see the Foch keeping pace with the Frontenac, and on several of them, even surpassing the Frontenac in growth and vigor. During their first growing season last summer they didn't show such enthusiasm. I've kept all the rows mulched, with grass in the aisles between rows. So far, no sign of bugs or disease.






























Although I took down a number of oaks during the winter that I knew were shading the vineyard, it is apparent that even more need to be cut for better exposure on the periphery. Since we heat with wood anyway, taking out the trees helps in more ways than one.

Dave, do you have anything worth photographing yet in your vineyard? Be forewarned that the Landot Noir are late to push buds and slow to show growth. If I sent you some Foch, I hope they grow as well for you there as they seem to do here.*Edited by: bilbo-in-maine *


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## Waldo

Looking very good there Bilbo. You will be well rewarded for your efforts.


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## NorthernWinos

Bilbo...looks like you've been tending to your vines with loving care...nicely trimmed and the ground looks nicely cared for.


Is there mulch over the rows??? What are you using???


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## grapeman

Coming along nicely there Bill. I wasn't sure what type of trellis system to use here either last year and like you am leaning towards VSP. It is a little more work to set up and maintain, but the narrower canopy gives the fruit more light to ripen. Are you using movable catch wires or stationary ones? Arguments both ways. Last year I set the fruiting wire a little high for VSP on the LaCrosse and St. Pepin, figuring on 4 Arm-Kniffen. I'm going to leave them as is for now since they seem well adapted to that system. Time will tell. 


How's the garden coming along?


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## Wade E

Looking good Bilbo!


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## bilbo-in-maine

A big thunderstorm just blew through, so we were driven inside and I thought of checking the forum. Thanks for your comments Wade, Richard, NW and Waldo. As for the several questions,the rows are indeed mulched. I used aged bark mulch since I was able to get it for free, and topped that with rotted cow manure. It is a rare weed that pushes up from the depths so it is easy to keep the rows clear. I've also found that several inches down it is usually moist. The catch wires are fixed although with a little effort they can be shifted, but probably don't need to be. I think that two tiers between cordon wire and top wire will be sufficient for shoot support. Once they reach the top wire I'll have to think about what to do. Richard, sounds like you are expecting your St. Pepin to be quite vigorous to need a four arm Kniffen trellis. In a way I hope you are right. My St. Pepin is on the slow side of vigor and in neither year is/did it develop much vegetation. Could be differences in sites maybe. And the garden is going pretty well! Thanks for asking. It is bigger than last year's, trying some watermelons that will probably be a stretch. We've been enjoying salad greens for quite a while. Peppers are blossoming, but tomatoes will be awhile in that respect. How about your's?


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## grapeman

You are right Bilbo- I expect the St Pepin to be vigorous. The LaCrosse are even more so. They just look right on the 4 Arm Kniffen system and will fill in quite well. Second year and on the heavier soil, they are very vigorous even though I pruned a lot out of new growth. Some vines I'm leaving 15 to 20 bunches on to help check them. The laterals are about 3-4 feet long and stick out, although not bad. The cordons on those 2 varieties wintered better than any other of them. That was a surprise because they were the ones that started to bloom at the end of the season last year. The new vines I planted are doing well this year- in the ground about 3 weeks at some are coming out of the grow tubes at 30 inches. I had also pruned them all back almost to the ground before applying the tubes. I will be applying Roundup soon to get rid of the quackgrass and thistles left over from the 2 rows of trees I got rid of(or at least what the mice hadn't gotten rid of). 


The garden is growing well. I didn't plant lettuce- it never does well on this sany ground. The peppers are blooming, cucumbers running and just an occasional bloom. The tomatoes are about 16-18 inches and have marble size tomatoes on them. The cole crops are looking really good. I also planted at the last minute some of the seeds from the multi-headed monster from last year. I also planted about 50 pumpkins from a monster pumkin I saved the seeds from a few years ago. 

I dusted the Black Currants with a sulfur dust a few days ago-looked like mildew on them and don't want that around. They are doing well and are about 3 feet high now.*Edited by: appleman *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Everything under excellent control, per the usual! It will be fun to post individual updates. Now if only we can hear from Dave in Montana, who has the hybrid eastern/western vineyard...


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## OilnH2O

Sorry -- I've been off in Glacier this week,painting -- maybe I can have another new avatar soon!


Bill, I've tended the Foch and Landot Noir cuttings with great care, and while I think I may have some small "hairy" roots, for the most part they haven't done much. You sent some St. Pepin too, and I planted a couple that rooted in the vinyard but don't know if those are yours or from the local Ten Spoons vinyard. The Foch cuttings that popped up (and are in the ground) are local as well, but we're still working on the callousing project with great hope!


Right now I'm putting up netting to keep the deer away -- or maybe I've got a squirrel or rabbit that nipped two vines' new leaves. Here in city limits I'm "limited" at what measures I can take on critters!


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## bilbo-in-maine

OK, for all of us who like to see pictures, today was a good day to take some as we worked outside. It was the holiday, but there is so much to do out there!
First, an overview of the portion of the vineyard which was planted last year - five rows with room for 30 vines. Prior to planting, the area was fairly wooded and needed a lot of clearing:






The following 5 shots show each row in its full length. The first row has Frontenac and Landot Noir planted.






The second row has Marechal Foch and St. Pepin.






Third row has St. Croix and one first year St.Pepin planted several weeks ago.






Fourth row has 2 Frontenac Gris and 2 new vines, another F. Gris and St. Pepin.






The fifth row has 2 new F. Gris but I didn't shoot it.

The following photos show a single example of each variety. All 5 varieties have been trained to the VSP system and have fully filled their trellis space laterally and are in various stages of vertical shoot growth up through the catch wires.

Frontenac






Landot Noir






Marechal Foch






St. Croix






St. Pepin - I show the three second year vines so Richard can see how modest their growth is compared to, say, Foch and Frontenac. I got the impression that his St. Pepins were very vigorous. The leafy vine on the left is the last Foch.






Finally, Frontanac Gris. These guys are probably the best growers I have. All the varieties have grown laterally well past the point where I'll have to prune them next year, the half way point between neighboring vines, but maybe you can see the growth of the right hand vine going around and up the end post. Now I can only train it out along the top wire until it decides to quit growing.






I've thrown in one shot of one of my Marquette vines that I planted early in June of this year, just to comparably show what one full year of growth does to happy vines, as shown in the previous photos.






I've read of others being infested with Japanese Beetles already, but so far I've seen just a few, and no fungi so far.



The weather has been dry and now we are into a mini-drought, with shrubs wilting and grass turning brown and crunchy underfoot and no good rain in sight. The mulched vineyard rows are still pretty moist under the top 4-5 inches, so I'm happy with the decision to put down the mulch last year.


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## Waldo

Looking very good bilbo


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## grapeman

You are getting a really good foundation going for those vines Bill. Next year should give you a decent crop for making some wines. They all look great. You are keeping them well trained and manicured. It can be really time-consuming. I also spent a few hours in the vineyard again yesterday before we went to a July 4th/ Birthday party. The kids were supposed to be swimming, but after the rain holding off untill 2 when we left for the party it cut loose. You should have some more rain soon. We had been dry too and have got a few good showers the last few days.


The Marquette vines are looking good. I keep hearing good things about that variety. Keep up the good work and keep us updated.


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## OilnH2O

Looks great Bilbo!


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## bilbo-in-maine

General question for anyone in the northcountry - is anyone seeing signs of veraison yet??!! My Frontenac bunches are green, my Foch bunches are green, my table grapes are green... Granted, June was cool and cloudy, as was the first half of July around here - could be the reason I guess. It is hard not to feel impatient when you know the growing season is already slowing and essentially ends in a month.


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## swillologist

I'm not as far north assome here.But here is a picture I took a day ortwo ago. These are fredonia grapes. 




















These are himrods.





*Edited by: swillologist *


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## Waldo

Looking good swill...Also, looks like you have a couple of nice pictures there for some labels.


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## grapeman

Nothing over here yet Bill. I keep expecting it to begin soon, but it hasn't yet. Last year it began about August 5. I know folks even in Minnesota are starting to see the signs of it. 


Are you having lots of trouble with Japanese beetles? They just keep coming back here. I sprayed for them last week and a week later they were back here again bad enough I had to spray again.


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## swillologist

Thanks Waldo! Now if I just knew how to make labels.



I need a picture of rhubarb and cherries. I might have to barrow one off of NW. Their looks so nice. *Edited by: swillologist *


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## NorthernWinos

Just right click on the photo and click on 'Save As' and put it on your desktop or in a folder of such photos you wish to use for labels....then move them to your label program or what ever program you'll be using.


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## Joanie

Wow!! Your vineyard is beautiful, Bilbo!!!! I can't wait until next year when my vines look like that!! You give me hope! Great pictures!


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## bilbo-in-maine

To Swillologist - I remember from my 4 years at ISU just how long and hot Iowa summers are, so I can easily understand your grapes' faster rate of development. If you are out in wide-open prairie country with sun exposure from dawn to sundown, so much the better! Things just aren't that way on coastal Maine with the fogs and forest...

Richard - Yes, the JB's are bad. I have sprayed twice, which keeps them at bay for at least a week, but the grapes put on new succulent growth quickly, so within that week there is always new unprotected growth - I'm sure you know.

I've been seeing a fair amount of basal leaf degradation on this year's new cordons. Many leaves close to the trunk ends of the arms are shriveling. It is interesting to see, but the vines don't appear to be declining in any other ways (except for leaves that have been turned to lace by the beetles.) Actually, several shoots near the trunk end of one cordon show yellowing and shriveling on one Frontenac Gris vine, but the huge amount of vegetation on the rest of the vine still looks good with constant growth at the shoot tips. One thing can be said for all the vines, the rate of growth has certainly slowed compared to early summer's initial burst.


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## Wade E

Nice pics swill. You can find some nice labl pics at Allposters.com and
just enter the fruit that you want into their search engine and you
will come up with a lot of fruit picsand then right click and save as
any folder you wish, I usually create a folder on my desktop for this
so I dont have to go looking for it at a later time.


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## NorthernWinos

A little bit of coloring up here in NW Minnesota....These are aver early Beta, Valiant, Frontenac and King of the North..












And others are showing nothing yet...


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## swillologist

Thanks NW. When I get better with this label thing, I will do that. Your grapes are really looking nice.


Bilbo
We werein Ames just a week or so ago. We wentup and ateat Hickory Park. Pretty much sun all day. We have some spruce trees that shade them awhile around noon. I think they are still just a little early this year. Frost was hard on the grapes last spring. There is not going to be as many grapes this year. Hope fully en ought to make a small batch of wine. 
My official wine taster came out earlier this week. I brought up a bottle that I made last fall. She act like she was impressed but may be she just wanted another bottle.






Thanks wade! I'm still playing with the labels. I'm still not really satisfied with what I have done so far.*Edited by: swillologist *


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## grapeman

Bill after getting to almost 100 yesterday I saw a single red berry on the Frontenac! I guess there is hope yet! We are jealous in the NE here after a relatively cool, wet July(almost 10 inches of rain here -average 2.5 for July). It's nice to see others grapes turning. We should follow shortly if the heat and sun keep it up for a while.


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## NorthernWinos

Okay Appleman...I begged for rain in June and got near 10 inches....July had been dry and we haven't had rain to speak of now for 3 weeks, it has been blast-furnace hot and very windy...the moisture is sucked out of everything....The lawn is drying up....the soybeans are thigh-high and in dire need of moisture, the corn is doing okay so far...the garden needs watering..[my job for today]....Not much chance of rain in our future....It has cooled down the past couple days but the heat is headed back....SO...if you guys could be so kind and fill my request once again to send some excess rain back up this way.....THANKS!!!


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## grapeman

NW, I'm hoping it doesn't get super dry here now after all that rain last month. Last weekend we got about an inch and a half and then nothing all week until today. Got a quick quarter inch this morning and there is another small storm about 5 miles away right now headed here. Then we are expecting heavy thunderstorms this afternoon. Now it's 95 out with an expected high for the day of 84 - go figure. The storms may really build with all this humidity and extra heat. I may have to shut down work again for a while this afternoon. Of course if the power fails I certainly will shut down






NW, Hope you get your rains soon again.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Richard - re: veraison, still no color on anything here. I include update photos of the vineyard a month after the last photos I posted.

To show just how green my berries still are:





Three overall views of the vineyard rows:













Views of each variety by row - note that the rows get progressively shorter due to site constraints:

Frontenac at the near end, Landot Noir at the far end:





Marechal Foch at the near end, St. Pepin at the far end:





A row of St. Croix:





Last row is Frontenac Gris:





View of the first row from the Landot Noir end, garage in the background:





Shifting to the left a little, with the house in the background and the granite quarry below the vineyard:





We have an arbor for four varieties of table grapes on the far side of the house. The Japanese beetles are decimating them, along with all the roses, but I don't want to spray with Sevin because our bee hives are also quite near the same area. Up in the vineyard I've sprayed twice to control the beetles and have noticed some minor "collateral damage", mainly some bumble bees, which I hate to lose, and some spiders on the vines. We probably lost a few honey bees too because they found the white clover that is so thick in the vineyard aisles, and each time I spray I can see drift of the spray settle down on the grass. It is a hard trade-off, but I know just how much damage the beetles will do. My feeling is that in year two the vines still need to put on as much leaf area as possible to continue root development and carbs for winter storage. But hey, maybe with global warming accelerating, winter won't be as harsh as we're used to!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Richard - re: veraison, still no color on anything here. I include update photos of the vineyard a month after the last photos I posted.

To show just how green my berries still are:






Three overall views of the vineyard rows:













Views of each variety by row - note that the rows get progressively shorter due to site constraints:

Frontenac at the near end, Landot Noir at the far end:





Marechal Foch at the near end, St. Pepin at the far end:





A row of St. Croix:





Last row is Frontenac Gris:





View of the first row from the Landot Noir end, garage in the background:





Shifting to the left a little, with the house in the background and the granite quarry below the vineyard:





We have an arbor for four varieties of table grapes on the far side of the house. The Japanese beetles are decimating them, along with all the roses, but I don't want to spray with Sevin because our bee hives are also quite near the same area. Up in the vineyard I've sprayed twice to control the beetles and have noticed some minor "collateral damage", mainly some bumble bees, which I hate to lose, and some spiders on the vines. We probably lost a few honey bees too because they found the white clover that is so thick in the vineyard aisles, and each time I spray I can see drift of the spray settle down on the grass. It is a hard trade-off, but I know just how much damage the beetles will do. My feeling is that in year two the vines still need to put on as much leaf area as possible to continue root development and store carbs for winter. But hey, maybe with global warming accelerating, winter won't be as harsh as we're used to!





Some vines have been dropping leaves that have withered and died. They are all located close to the trunks on the new cordons that I trained earlier this summer. Anyone else seeing leaf drop also?
*Edited by: bilbo-in-maine *


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## Waldo

Looking good Bilbo....There are some of the pictures that I see only the x though.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Waldo - yeah, i know. Something is going on that's making it difficult to upload pics. I'm still wrestling with it.

To anyone who is curious, I apologize for being unable to finish uploading the photos this evening. The forum server seems to be misbehaving and is being extremely slow. I will continue in the morning.
*Edited by: bilbo-in-maine *


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## geocorn

Try only loading 4 pictures at a time. The server seems to handle it better.


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## grapeman

You have a really nice vinyeard going Bill. The vines look like they will be giving a vry nice crop next year if mother nature and the wildlife cooperate. How close is your node spacing on the vine cordons? 


Now go sit down in those chairs and relax for a few minutes!


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## bilbo-in-maine

I couldn't successfully edit my post above to add the final three photos - blocked from the server for some reason. Here they are, just for the record, although out of context with the narrative above, they are just pictures.














Richard - The node spacings vary. I had to go out and specifically look to answer your question. In general, spacings range from 3 to 5 inches and just a few may be around 6 inches. Cordon arms will be 3.5 feet after final pruning next spring. It will be interesting and fun to see what develops in the way of optimum shoot numbers per arm that each variety will support.


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## NorthernWinos

Very nice Bilbo....Thanks for sharing...Will be looking forward to seeing them next year.


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## grapeman

The node spacing sounds pretty good Bill. It is easier to remove excess shoots next year than have the nodes too far apart and not have enough shoots in case of a hard winter. That's why I asked the question. It would be interesting to note the spacing of each variety on average and keep a record how cold it gets and how may viable buds are left each year along with how many bunches per shott, etc. 


Keep up the great work and thanks for the pictures when you get a chance.


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## pizzaerick

I know less about grapes than I do wine, so take it with a grain of salt...

Bilbo, your vines are still really young, I wouldn't expect much or anything this year.

Around here, in just the last 2 weeks, the Front, and St C have gone from green to deep red, and the sweetness is coming through. It was just that fast!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Interesting - I've been seeing some slight PM on the Frontenac varieties. They are advertised as having some resistance to the disease, and are virtually immune to downy. They are the only variety I have showing signs. Since I won't be taking a crop this year (I left just a few clusters for fun) I will break out the sulfur. I hope I can report later that it is successful. Anyone else have a similar situation?
Bill


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## bilbo-in-maine

I have topped the vines twice during the summer to control upward growth. Right now there is new growth from the latest cuts. On both Frontenac and Frontenac Gris the new growth includes small flower clusters! There are none on the other three varieties even though several of them have more vigorous vegetative growth. Frontenac seem to be extremely vigorous.


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## grapeman

I have run into the new clusters forming also. They are only developing on the vines trained VSP. There were cluster I trimmed tody everywhere from blossoms to pea size fruit. I have also noticed most of the vines are really showing signs of hardening off. It's a good thing with the fall weather arriving!


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## bilbo-in-maine

So you think VSP training has something to do with flowering this late? Were you finding clusters on other varieties than Frontenac? I would like to know more about that. If nothing else, a VSP trained vineyard is certainly a lovely sight. Regarding hardening off, I have leaf death occuring at the low wire (base of the vertical shoots), but new growth happening at the tops of the shoots. Cordons are turning brown, as are the lower portions of the shoots. I'm kind of looking forward to leaf drop and dormancy so I can clean things up and put down some soil amendment and rotted manure for next season.


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## grapeman

I think it is because the VSP on these young vines kind of forces new growth after the initial shoot growth early on. Not sure why they fruit , but I have seen it on three varieties-Leon Millot, Chardonel and a few on the Frontenac. I didn't hedge my VSP this year because I feel it would force too may high laterals that would develop late and deplete some of the root reserves. My vines look a little raggedy without being trimmed- with some shoots going up to the top and back down to the ground. Some shoots follow the top wire and are 15 feet long. If I was fruiting these heavy, I think it would keep that kind of growth in check. 


Did you notice that I was able to get 120 pounds of Marquette grapes? They are very juicy and have a very pronounced pepper and cherry scent. Acidity is moderate although I haven't tested it yet. I have 50 of them coming next spring and it will give me a head start on practicing with this one.I think the grape I am probably most impressed with at this point for our location is Noiret. I had to collect a 1000 grape sample of the fruit from the replication panels. They have very nice clusters- semi-compact and large. The berries are medium sized and the fruit is excellent even though we are leaving them hanging a while longer. They have a ton of flavors that all lean towards vinifera. Plenty of tannins but not ovrpowering and just the right touch of acidity. There is probably about 15 pounds per vine in year three(the Marquette averaged 10). I'll keep you informed as to how well it handles the winters in colder years- so far no problems.


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## bilbo-in-maine

In reading a little about Noiret, it mentions a possible need to graft to resistant rootstock. Are the test vines grafted or on their own roots? The wine potential does sound very good. I will be curious to hear more about its cold-hardiness. Not as good as Foch apparently, and Foch is probably my least hardy variety. I will also want to hear your tales of fermenting your Marquette.


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## grapeman

So far the Noiret at this site seems to be handling itself well on it's own roots. If it was a concern, it is available on multiple types of rootstock. Cold hardiness is my main concern since it is fruitful the following year only down to about 15-17 below zero F.


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## NorthernWinos

-15* to -17* is a walk in the park compared to what it can get up here on de-tundra....we can easily get -40* some years...so growing grapes is almost a dream. 


The ones I have are the hardiest ones I can find.....I do grow 5 tender vines on wire cattle panels, lay them down and cover with straw, the straw mostly collects the snow [if there is any] for insulation.


Last year we didn't get much snow. the Edelweiss and Swenson Red had produced bounties last year...this year they were slow recovering and didn't produce much...but really put on a lot of vegetative growth...so the roots must be okay...


Already anxious for next year.



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Well, folks, here is the 2007 harvest from the Maine vineyard!

Early in the summer I left a few bunches on the Frontenac vines just for fun. I decided to pick today, the last of our unseasonably warm weather I'm afraid.

The numbers:
weight of fruit picked (drum roll).75 lb
Brix23.2
pH3.26

It took me about ten minutes to destem by hand, and another two minutes to crush with a fork. If things are this easy with a full harvest, I can't wait!

Here's the fruit:





After destemming:





Finally, the crush:





Now the must is cold soaking down in the crawl space, aka my wine cellar, at around 55 degrees. I added a tiny amount of k-meta and equally tiny amount of pectic enzyme. On Monday I will warm it up and add a little of the Montagnac Vieux Chateau d'Oc that is about ready to be stabilized. I figure there are still lots of yeasts ready to do another round with something sweet. I'll repost a little later.


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## grapeman

Good job! It must have been a piece of cake using that equipment with these, but I want to be there next year when you crush them all with a fork!






What size carboy you using for this batch. I figure you will get about a cup of juice when you press. Your numbers are fairly good for you. What recipe are you using?


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## Waldo

Be careful bilbo that you do not exceed the maximum allowable amount of wine you can make.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Ha-ha... Thank you both, Richard and Waldo! This has got to be one of the better hobbies around.


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## OilnH2O

Geee... I can't WAIT until next year to see MY results!!!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Dave - I sure hope you will get even bigger harvests than I did this year!

Here are a few progress shots of my Frontenac fermentation. My primary was a one quart Pyrex bowl with a lid. I can only guess that fermentation started with native yeast, although I added several tablespoons of my kit wine I had at the time that had just been racked off gross lees. Unfortunately I had already added kmeta to the kit without thinking. At any rate, fermentation started after about 48 hours and lasted maybe 4 days. I "pressed" by squeezing the must through a strainer bag and put the wine into my "carboy" to settle. 

Here's the carboy:





Tonight I racked it off the gross lees into a new "carboy". The wine has good color and a sharp taste. The acid is pretty high, I can tell. I'm not sure how to get MLF going on this. Guess I'll wait for George to ship my fresh juice Amarone in early November. I ordered mlfb along with it and can probably borrow some at that time to add to my little carboy.

Racking tonight:





In the new "carboy" and ready to put away for awhile:





Boy, this is fun. Hope it's been "instructive".


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## grapeman

Do you feel like Thom Thumb there Bill? You're killing me here. ROFLMAO! I think that must be a lot harder than making a regular batch! Where wereyou able to find such a small what looks like regular wine bottle? It's smaller than even the airlock! Be careful with samples every step of the way with that one. There won't be anything left!


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## Bert

Way to go bilbo....let nothing go to waste.....but that is kind of cute


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## scotty

hose are great pics


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## OilnH2O

I think if you submit your "instructional" series to George for a feature in the next newsletter, he might think it's worth...oh, maybe $5-6 bucks in credit!


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## NorthernWinos

Anxious to see the size of the bottles at bottling time....
How many bottles do you expect to get out of this batch?????


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## bilbo-in-maine

I opened the one bottle (375 ml split) of Steuben wine on Thanksgiving that I made two summers ago. I again had a very small crop from a young vine. It has remained on the fine lees all that time until I opened it and racked into a small decanter. It was light bodied with medium color and good acid, not great by any means but worth the doing. Next year should see a major departure from these tiny batches since the vineyard will be in its third year. It was warm enough on Thanksgiving day to do a dormant spray of everything with lime sulfur and Stylet oil. All the dropped leaves and petioles have been removed too. Here's hoping next summer's disease pressure won't be too bad.


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## grapeman

Did you have more Steuben this year for a bigger batch?


I'm hoping for a mild winter and low disease pressure next year...........
It's called wishful thinking and doesn't usually work for me






Will the lime/sufur and oil spray be enough for disease suprssion or will you need to follow up next spring with a pre-budswell spraying?


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## bilbo-in-maine

I'll follow up in the spring with a second lime sulfur treatment. The Steuben vine (only one planted) died all the way back to ground level last spring so, no, there was no second harvest. I put in a small Vanessa to replace the Steuben, which then promptly regrew from several buds in the ground. It then grew to the top of the arbor about eight feet high and let me train several canes out horizontally. What a flip flop.


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## grapeman

My B-I-L has a few Steuben and they bear very well with lots of flavor- but watch them. He did minimal spraying this year and his were covered with PM. The grapes were so bad they didn't even pick them.


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## Wade E

They were covered with Personnel messages



, what did they say on them?


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## NorthernWinos

Powdery Mildew...it's a fungus type problem....It a gardener's PM


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## bilbo-in-maine

Taking a cue from Rich, I figured maybe some forum members would like to see some early winter photos from the Maine vineyard. As NW said, now is a good time to appreciate just the bones of our vines, the architecture that underlies the summer fullness. I really enjoy the look of the vineyard in snow, no matter if it is sunny like today or in subdued light - the forms are just so pleasing - but they are so equally pleasing in mid-summer under full sail too! I imagine others feel the same way.


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## NorthernWinos

Your bare-bones look great...very nicely manicured.


I leave more than one trunk....One winter I lost all but one vine...[and these are very hardy vines] Then I had to wait for them to regrow or be replanted....so now mine don't look so nice and manicured. Hope to have good enough roots now to prune more vigorously next summer.


Thanks for wading out though the snow and sharing your photos.


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## grapeman

Your vines are looking great there Bill. The last picture really demonstrates Verticle Shoot Positioning for all those guys wanting to know what different types of pruning look like. I bet it will be hard to clip off the upright shoots to the cordon in the spring, but take heart that they will then send up replacements for those that will be fruitful. I can picture those nice big clusters hanging down from that fruiting wire now!


I have spent the day racking and moving whites out into the garage for cold stabilization. That will throw off excess acids as crystals and leave a more stable wine. After I moved them out there in the 32 degree garage, I realized I had just water in the airlocks. I made a trip to the store and picked up a bottle of vodka(didn't have any left at home). I filled nine airlocks and only used about 2 shots out of a 1.75 liter bottle of Fleishman's cheap vodka($12.99). My oldest boy(28) said, "Oh boy. I like that stuff!". I guess I know where the extra will go!


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## JWMINNESOTA

Good move on getting the bigger bottle to fill the little airlocks!


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## Wade E

Bilbo that looks so professional with the vertical shoots! Great job!


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## grapeman

Bill I found a press for you to use on your grape crop this coming year. Last year you could get away with doing it by hand, but this year you will need a bit bigger press. So here it is......


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## OilnH2O

That's a great pic, Rich! Does Bill have to guess a number between 1 and 50???






(Bill, take pictures for the rest of us when the UPS/FedEx truck delivers!)


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## bilbo-in-maine

Wow, no kidding Dave! What a monster - it must have stayed in the same spot year after year. Thanks for posting, Rich. What I plan to use is my old cider press, scrubbed up and sanitized. It should work for my harvest numbers. When the time comes (what, a little less than a year away?) I'll try to let you know.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Although the snow is still deep in the vineyard, it has really settled a lot over the past week with some warmer weather and rain. I mosied through the vineyard this afternoon, just happy to be there again and looking at the dormant vines, thinking about upcoming pruning, the second dormant spray, eventual bud break! Woo-hoo...growing time is closing in.



I need to buy some smelly soap in bulk soon - I know the deer are going to be hungry. Meanwhile, I still have winter time work to do, clearing a few more trees shading an area of the vineyard, cutting and splitting that, and making some more room for new fruit trees.


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## grapeman

Yes we need all the excitement we can get this time of year with not much going on in the vineyards. I also walked out in mine this morning since it was at the freezing level so it was nice. We still had a 1/2 inch coating of ice on the trellis wires and vines- making for an eerie sight. It makes the vines look larger than they are, but with a shimmering shine to them in the sun. Kind of pretty. I was took a few pictures but too much glare with the snow and ice. We had alos got 3 inches of snow, an inch of sleet and the 1/2 inch of ice from the storm on Friday. The sun is making gains with the weather and each day when the sun comes out it gets a bit warmer. January turned out to be dry here with only an inch and a half of moisure from rain and melted snow. We should be coming up on our snowy season soon. We should get about 3 feet of snow in the next month as the Jet Stream works it's yearly way back up north.


Let's countdown to spring!


----------



## swillologist

Forty-six Days.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Since my last posting we have had snow just about every day so the level on the ground is up a lot. Before breakfast this morning I was lured out to the vineyard by the beauty of last nights extremely fluffy snow on the vines and trellises, and took the following shots.

Walking from the house:





Here's that new snow covering everything even half horizontal. Look at the bottom cordon wire. It is about three feet off the ground.There's a lot of snow to melt off before we hit mud season, about when pruning may begin.





The front row has Frontenac and Landot Noir. Appleman said something in his posting today about getting ready to begin pruning, but looking at this scene makes me wonder just how soon...





A closeup of one of the Frontenac:





The garden shed sitting dormant - probably a favorite hangout for some mice:





I was out just after sunrise, and there it is, the sun rising through the trees in the southeast. As the day progresses, we will see more clouds move in as another snow event starts this evening. It all may be pretty, but the snowblowing and shoveling is getting old by now...





A shot of the house I took on my way back to breakfast. The presence of winter is so strong right now that I catch myself thinking it will always be like this.





Now this is the way things should be! View of the house from a slightly different point, but in an entirely different season - high SUMMER last August!





Nothing to do but wait out this very old fashioned New England winter.


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## grapeman

Now that's white there Bill. I was saying that tongue in cheek in that post about pruning soon. Need to wai for 2 feet of snow to melt. It started snowing again a bit ago and now they say 8 inches again this afternoon and tomorrow. Your picture was whiter than mine. I think it has been 2 days since it snowed last. That's OK. January only had 1 inch+ a bitof liquid precipitation.


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## NorthernWinos

Beautiful vines!!!!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Well, it was only a few days ago that I posted the photos above. We just had more snow overnight into this morning, producing greater depths on the ground, and now followed by freezing rain. Things were so bad this morning that both my wife and I took a snow day to stay off the roads, but I took out the camera for a few more shots before dragging the snow blower out yet again to clear the drive before the worst of the rain this afternoon.

The cordon wire is having trouble keeping itself from disappearing:









Our beehives are set on 12 inch concrete block bases. For the winter, they are reduced to just two stacked 10 inch deep hive bodies. Obviously the bottom entrances are submerged, with snow approaching the top vent holes. We have to monitor this situation. The snow helps insulate, but they shouldn't be covered.





Looking at the vineyard just now (and everything else outdoors), there is ice covering absolutely everything exposed. Branches hang low, the trellis wires look like glistening silver streaks through the air, and there is a subtle shimmer to everything, even in the gloom of the overcast afternoon. If the sun were out, it would be blinding. A siren is wailing in the distance, out here in the country. This is one of those trying times in a seemingly endless winter in the north. Only our memory of many past spring thaws assures us that there will be an end.

Let's see, what can I do indoors? There are the tax returns to start. But wait! There's an Amarone ready to bottle! I might as well do it this weekend... after cleaning up from another snow storm forecast for Friday.


----------



## grapeman

I can certainly sympatize with you Bill. You may have to shovelthe snow away from the hives a bit. The kids were home from school today-again- twice in one week now. They must be getting soft at the school. We only got about 7 inches today, but that's enough. Even with settling, the snow is about even with the 36 inch fruiting wire on the trellis. We didn't get the ice today, it stayed snow most of the time and a brief period of rain, but it was above freezing then. We are at about our normal 70 inches of snow right now for an average winter and still have a month and a half to go.


I don't ever get to take a snow day off, my office is only 100 feet away from my back door..................... Maybe I should move the building a bit farther away...........


----------



## geocorn

I would say 200 feet would get you the day off! But I think you are in the same predicament as I am. Days off = lost revenue.I need to talk to the boss about sick/vacation/snow days. Oh! I am the boss. Stayed home today to work on the web site and some other stuff. Will pay desperately for it tomorrow.


BTW, I love the snow pics. Don't get much here in Big D, but I do remember my days in Fairbanks, AK. It was cold, but the most beautiful place I have lived.


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## bilbo-in-maine

A long time between posts here, mainly because winter conditions just kept hanging in there - until about five days ago! Almost as if by magic, most of the snow has disappeared in that time, the ground has been revealed and contains no frost, due to the thick snow blanket, and daytime temps are in the 50s. I pruned the entire vineyard today and also all the table grapes. Next week I'll have to get the dormant spray done. My notes from last year tell me that after the first week of May, most of the vine varieties had begun but swell. Dormant spray within a week should leave enough of a time cushion.

We lost one hive of bees, but the stronger one going into fall is still with us and the bees were flying a bit today and were spotted in the new crocuses.

Sorry for not posting pictures of the vines. I didn't think of it in time - doh. I left long spurs which can be pruned shorter once I see what is happening. Now the fun begins!


----------



## grapeman

Good news! Your world is beginning to come to life! Pretty easy pruning the VSP isn't it!? Did you take any cuttings? I'm hoping I can finish up pruning this coming week. It is supposed to be warmer after tomorrow and should finish off the snow and get rid of the bit of frost in the ground so it will drain. I could prune now, but I hate leaving footprints 6 inches deep all over.


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## AlFulchino

Bill...thanks for sharing your info...i just read five random pages from your thread...so i may have missed it...what do you do to keep birds from the grapes?


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## grapeman

Bill have your vines settled down yet and got growing good for the season? I hope the damage you noted earlier is gone and that you have some fruit set for this year. If not, I feel guilty for having such a tremendous potential yield for the year. I stress potential because with all the rain this year, the disease can move in overnight. Let me know if you need some grapes- I think I will be having a few extra. Even the Concord and Niagara which didn't have any last year are loaded this year. Their grapes are like the ones you buy at the farm markets- nice and big.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Oops - I haven't checked into my own thread in ages. Sorry Al, I left your question unanswered. I bought some vineside netting from SpecTrellis this year. I don't think I will need it very soon though. I don't have a very large crop, and what I do have is not yet showing signs of veraison. Too much rain. See my reply to Rich below. I know you are awfully soggy too. Hope you get a harvest anyway.
Bill


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## bilbo-in-maine

Apologies to you too Rich. I haven't had much success this summer. This incredible weather is compounding the poor start. I will not be using a dormant spray again, needless to say. Can't really know if it was the lime sulfur itself or the fact that I mixed it with SO per Gregorio's method. 

I had very little cluster development. At best I will be doing maybe a gallon of Foch and a liter of Frontenac to experiment with blending. The St. Pepin vines proved to be the most robust and put on a fair number of clusters, but there are only three mature vines of that variety. Again, I'll probably press out maybe a liter or two.

I have trained a lot of new growth up from the ground to replace a number of original vines. There is a lot of vegetative growth, helped along by all the rain. The JBs haven't been overpowering, nor have I seen the grasshoppers that others have mentioned. Sure would like to see some sun and heat though!!

Here's what we have for weather today - a replay of last Thursday...Lots of rain pinwheeling in from the Gulf of Maine and soaking the coast.


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## AlFulchino

Bill we are gettingthe same pinwheel efffect..as of the rain last night and today i am at 17 inches in thirty days...each week they predict a drier outlook and it never happens....what started out thirty days ago is as bad on the vineyard floor today as it was then...lots of yellowing going on...some leaf drop...overall i am at a loss to understand how they will harden off...i see some vines showing nutrient deficiency and i am powerless to do anything about it becase whatever granular or liquid fert i use is immediately diluted and we are getting late in the year to keep giving nitrogen.....aside from some phomopsis and leaf phyloxera they vines are reasonably clean but thats like saying the china and silverware are nice looking but there is no foot on the table. 


also..let me know how your Spec Trellis Vineside netting works out...i found another company called Sutton Ag that has some netting at a good price 


http://www.suttonag.com/BirdNet.html


I know someone who is trying it out this year and we may buy together next year..if i have a vineyard...make no mistake..it IS that bad here. I pumped off a lot of water yeaterday and a third of it came came back w last nights rain and run-off. And they say more rain later today 


I may have to stop visiting wine sites just to keep myself from telling everyone how bad it is...  so if i stop coming by everyone will know i am out of the vineyard business*Edited by: Al Fulchino *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Progress in the vineyard almost a month slow. Veraison started on Reliance about 5 days ago, on Frontenac gris about 4 days ago, on Foch today, still no color change on Frontenac or St. Croix. St. Pepin began looking translucent about a week ago and remains the most healthy of my varieties, but still way slow for the season. Will have to wait and see how things turn out, and whether autumn conditions are favorable. Very little sun and heat this summer.


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## grapeman

Good luck with all of them Bill. I also hope for a warm autumn. We are a bit better here and I hope it continues like it is. I tested all the varieties at Willsboro Friday before netting. A lot of variation between varieties, but in general several points ahead of last year. The highest reading I got was on Mn 1200 at 20 and Marquette(sister seedling) at 19. Most varieties are at about 15. The St Pepin are really getting their great flavor and should be ready in a few weeks along with other varieties.


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## bilbo-in-maine

just waiting........sigh

another foot of snow tomorrow


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## grapeman

Dang, that's nasty. We are only looking at 2-5 again. There was about 8-10 inches in Lake George when I was there a couple days ago. It was sloppy heavy and wet. I got home and we had only gotten an inch and it was mostly gone. Come on Spring!


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## NorthernWinos

Waiting here too....ho-hum!!!

Our snow pack did decrease a couple weeks ago when we had rain, now it remains a solid frozen ice pack. Seems like it just can't warm up enough to take away the ice.

Jim brought the fish spear house home today...with one day left in the season. They had moved once..over to the 'dead sea'. We went to Cabela's and bought an underwater camera on Thursday...they moved again yesterday to a spot that looked good on camera....no fish to speak of...Moved home today and hung up the spears.

Now we have a really neat camera, perhaps for in the spare bedroom....


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## OilnH2O

I'm between feeling guilty (because the yard is 90% grass, with only little snow left) and worried (because it's 45* and sunny, yet I know there's more cold to come!). But I think I'll try to assuage my guilt by counting my blessings!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Way to hang tough Dave...


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## grapeman

I am holding out hope with this one here Bill. We are right on the very edge of the 2-5 inches and over a foot prediction. I'm hoping for 2 inches!






Hope you miss out also, but it doesn't look good!


----------



## NorthernWinos

No fresh snow here....
We have plenty of old snow that just doesn't want to leave...

NO END IN SIGHT.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Just had the worst storm of the season, very heavy and wet, and deep. There are a lot of branches down, over 100,000 homes without power right now. My snow storage areas have gotten so high that my old snow blower can't push the wet stuff high enough. Piles are over my head height. Everything is plastered with new sticky snow this morning, absolutely everything, because it was a windy storm also. I need a major melt...

NW, your old snow won't leave while our new stuff keeps coming. You are right - no end in sight. Gotta keep the faith.


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## grapeman

Hang in there Bilbo. Only two more months of this stuff! Sounds like you got the brunt of the storm. You must still have poere because you are online.


We indeed were on the edge of the system and YEAH- were lucky enough to only get 2 inches total!


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## NorthernWinos

Bilbo, sounds like a nasty one.....Hope you stay with power and are able to get out if need be.


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## Waldo

Bilbo, sounds like a nasty one.....Hope you stay with power and are able to get out if need be.


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## bilbo-in-maine

I wonder if anyone else has seen this occur with their vines, under the category of varmint damage (same damage done to some of my wife's perennials and first year fruit trees next to the vineyard.) As the snow settled down to only a few inches left on the ground, trunk damage from chewing became apparent. It may be mice, voles or shrews. The areas are usually about eight to twelve inches above the ground and large areas of bark are gone down to wood. Several vines are girdled, and because yesterday was so dang nice here, the sap was flowing from the ragged bottom edges of the damaged areas. I doubt the damaged vines will thrive so I will have to train some new ground growth to replace maybe eight-ten trunks. If its not one thing its another in this game! I should have put on the wire trunk cages I used for newly planted vines several years ago, but I just didn't anticipate hungry chewers tunneling through the snow. Boy, the snow mold was bad this year too. We have a lot of grass killed.
I did the main job of pruning in early March, standing on at least two feet of crusty snow and breaking through from time to time. I left spurs long so I will have to go back through at bud swell to see what else should be nipped. With only 48 vines, it isn't that big a job and I'll be standing on soil again. Anyhow, with yesterday's warmth, all the pruning cuts were oozing. From now on I'll nervously be looking for a repeat of last year's pink fungus at the cuts. Hope no one else had critter damage out there.


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## grapeman

It does sound like mice damage.They can be nasty with their damage.So far I have been lucky with the vines. About 15 years ago I lost 500 apple trees to mice damage in my tree nursery. When they are worse it seems is after a bit of a thaw or ice storm and there is a layer of ice for them to travel on. When it gets covered with a couple inches of snow it is even better because then they have cover to travel under. Get a couple feral cats in the vineyard and it will keep their numbers in check.


Hope the pink goo stays away for everyone. Good luck with everything.


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Alright, no pink goo this year!

On the other hand, it looks like the -22 degree night in February took its toll on the Landot Noir. None of the new trunks I trained from the ground last summer made it. New growth is pushing again from ground level, but I am seriously considering replacing with more Marquette or St. Croix. Each of these varieties is going great guns now. The St. Pepin should be too, but I have a number of barren nodes on established cordons, maybe 50 percent. They are going into their fourth summer, so they certainly aren't old. I'd like to know why they have shut down to this extent.

Having only applied composted manure and never any commercial fertilizer to any of my vines, I have to wonder if some N would be helpful to the three year olds. Last year's soil test indicated I was ok, but maybe the hybrids want something more. My plan this year is to amend with ammonium sulfate at berry set. Soil pH is a little high, so this fertilizer may help drop it back toward 6.5. Anyone feel free to chime in here.

I got in the first Stylet Oil spray of the season on Sunday, a little late but better than never. I have some new Marquette shoots approaching a foot already, and most everything else is at least 2 inches. Last year's young vines are pushing good growth, including flowers, something I always hate to clip off but manage to do anyway. Must get the growth established....


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## grapeman

One thing that may be affecting the St. Pepin is your soil. Mine are on SANDY soil and go gangbusters. They do so well here for me, I have about 500 in the ground now. There are very few barren nodes and most have two clusters on all the shoots. At Willsboro it is a heavier loamy soil and the St. Pepin do well with a bit bigger clusters but last year yielded about 12-15 pounds per vine where mine averaged 25 pounds or more in their third year. There are more barren nodes at Willsboro even though it was warmer there.


If you want to lower the pH of the soil, there isn't anything much better than a commercial blend! I think the hype there was in the past about them being man made are overblown. They are made from byproducts of various processes, but are chemically the same as many naturally occuring substances.


----------



## smikes

Last year my wife and I stayed at Pemaquid point.We had hoped to find some wineries but were told that the few within driving distance would have only fruit wines as grapes don't do so well in that area.






This was before my first attempts at fruit wines were drinkable. Now I wished I tried some fruit wines to compare mine to!




Best of luck on your vineyard! I will be looking for it on the map if we get up that way again!


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## bilbo-in-maine

The Japanese Beetles were bad but not awful like a year ago. Fungal diseases were almost non-existent this summer, in spite of the rain in June-July. Vine growth was vigorous because of the rain, although berry development was set back at least 3 weeks on vines that managed to keep flowers through the two wet months. Of my six varieties, three produced crops worthy of anticipating harvesting. The best of the three has been Marquette, of which I have eight vines. It has been showing good Brix numbers and I thought I would give it another week of good weather to finish up.
This morning I was out early to look things over and found almost all Marquette clusters stripped clean. I put up bird netting and wasp traps two weeks ago but hadn't anticipated RACCOONS! They were very efficient. Now the Have-a-Heart trap is set and I'm thinking about electric fence next year. It is an expense we've put off for several years, even though we get nailed by groundhogs in the vegetable garden every year, but this is stimulus enough to make the decision. Kill two birds with one stone - keep groundhogs and raccoons away. Oddly enough, I've never had a deer problem! Hope that doesn't change too.
So, does anyone have a favorite method of deterring raccoons?


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## guitarfreeks14

I used to live in New Hampshire years ago, so I know the risk of trying to plant anything let alone vineyards that early in the spring! Good luck!


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## grapeman

How about a scattergun? You sure have had problems this year again! Are you at least going to double last year's production and maybe fill a 187 ml carboy????


----------



## farmer

I put up an electic fence every year to keep the coon out of the sweet corn. The last couple years i have been using a single wire about six inches off the ground, it keeps them out.
I have been watching my vines for signs of coon, they have not bothered them. Cross my fingers I get to them before the raccoons


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## bilbo-in-maine

Heh-heh, I appreciate the levity Rich




. If I can somehow keep the critters off the berries, then yes, I might very well be able to fill several 187's. So, how long 'til next season?

Farmer, thanks for your success story. It helps with the decision.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Hi all, the vineyard made it through the winter quite well and the vines put on the most flower clusters I've ever seen here. I pruned to allow a few varieties to establish top wire cordons this summer in order to emulate Rich's 4-arm Kniffen conversions. Did this with Frontenacs, St. Croix, Foch and St. Pepin.
The growing season has been off to a slow start due to a cool, rainy spring. All varieties are at various stages of blooming but three days in a row of quite cool, wet weather has temporarily halted the development of blossoms. I'm getting nervous about the possibility of delicate flowers damping off or not properly self-pollinating since it is so wet. While other varieties have at least started flowering, the St. Pepin hasn't. I'm hoping that something is still in bloom by the time St. Pepin finally flowers since it needs another variety to pollinate. I'm also hoping for a long, hot summer to make up for the miserable spring start and current slowdown here in coastal Maine. There's no getting around the fact, farmers and hobbyists alike are always at the mercy of the weather gods.


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## Waldo

bilbo...come here boy...look, you have been on here long enough to know that we like pictures...It's ok..awwwww crap..don't start crying now. Just get your butt out there and get them pictures and get em posted....I know, I know, but that no excuse..Just Get er done !!!


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## grapeman

Thanks for gving us an update . We appreciate it. It has indeed been a wet spring. Just yesterday another grower and I wee exchanging e-mails. He too is concerned about the wet weather affecting bllom and set and he saw quite a few htat hadn't seemed to set. I observed another stange phenomenon this year. Some of the St Pepin had perfect flowers meaning they had both parts which they normally don't have. They had some anthers on them and not just the pistils.


Good luck with them bilbo and I hope for a long warm summer for you.


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## Wade E

Hope your grapes do well this year Bilbo. Its sure a very wet one here in New England this year. This is the first year my lawn isnt burnt to a crisp already by this time.


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## lieu

hey bilbo,
I was in Maine this am and boy was it pouring. Got back to RI around mid afternoon and was sunny out. Hopefully the sun came out up your way also.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Is anyone else in northern New England seeing a really slow start to veraison? I'd like to know if it is common and a result of growing conditions this summer, or if it is just my vineyard that is unusual. Only Marquette is showing any color, while Frontenac Gris has begun to soften and blush up a bit.


----------



## grapeman

We are at about the same point as last year here inNorthern NY. Most varieties are showing at least some color with even a few berries turning on Steuben,Catawaba and Concord. The Marquette, Leon Millow and Frontenac are mostly colored. Brix is around 15 or so.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Thanks Rich, it sounds like your area is on a faster track in general. I've often thought that the tempering effect of the nearby ocean may play a role in vine development here.


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## OilnH2O

Bill, go back and look at Waldo's post -- or I'm blind!


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

I think it was the hurricane...



Several days before Irene was due, our state extension service sent out a
general advisory to growers of curcurbit type crops recommending that 
the growers spray immediately for fungal diseases that would be blown 
into the region from areas to the south. I now wish I had taken the 
advisory more seriously and had anticipated that grapes could be 
affected in a similar way.



My vines have been very healthy all summer with several general sprays, 
the last occurring early in August. They were still in great shape the 
weekend of the hurricane, a few vines even still showed spray residue here 
and there. Now, a little more than a week later I have a raging 
infection of downy mildew in the St. Pepin and St. Croix. No signs of PM
(yet) on anything, nothing else funny going on, but on several St. 
Pepin vines well over half of the leaves are infested and it has moved 
at amazing speed. Unfortunately I've had to wait out a day of rain to 
get some spray on it.



I'm spraying with chlorothalomil, the main ingredient in Bravo 
fungicide. It is called a broad spectrum fungicide so I'm hoping it will
knock out the DM, just have to wait and see now. I wanted to let others
know that the next time a major storm visits your area from other 
parts, it might be good insurance to spray your grapes in advance.

I know, I know, everyone likes to see photos.



I'll have to try harder...


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## AlFulchino

interesting...i had not seen any down mildew in my vineyard in four yrs...today during our initial half ton of harvest i noted some downy on one vine that has a particularly dense canopy.....of course i wont be spraying now until harvest is over....but this too may have been part of the aftermath of Irene...good luck to you!


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## grapeman

If you spray phosporous acid - Rampart, Starphyt,Prohyt- it will kill downy on contact. It doesn't have much of a residual effect, but killing it is important. It has no PHI and re-entry time is merely a few hours. It is a form of liquid fertilizer.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Al, nor had I for those same four years. This is the first experience with it. Usually I can expect a little PM on certain vines and the chlorothalonil seems to have handled that so far. Good luck with the rest of the harvest.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Thanks for that info Rich. I'm calling around but having no luck so far with the local greenhouse supply or garden center type places. Do you know where you would go for one of those products?


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## grapeman

Crop Production Services in Vt should be able to help. Call Peg at 866-827-2777. If they cant serve you, they should be able to give you the local office number.


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## AlFulchino

and since you are in maine...look for randy drown right in Maine...he is w crop production..if you cant locate him or them, send me a message and i will get you his number


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## Wade E

Sorry to hear about your crops taking hits like this. Hopefully you can nip it in the bud before it gets any worse.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Thank you Wade. Like you, our area is getting much more rain than is needed or wanted. The soggy ground lets the posts loosen up with the breezes, just like Rich was describing at his place.

Rich and Al, I managed to find a phosphorous acid based product called Phostrol, just picked it up this morning from Paris Farmers Union up in Oxford, in case any other Maine growers have noticed this thread and also need some help with downy mildew all of a sudden.

I'd be spraying but I just have to wait now for the rain to stop...


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## grapeman

Bill unless it is raining steady, you can spray it on. Get full coverage- rain will actually help spread it and this will kill the infection. I would use the high rate. If the rain comes steady after applying, wait another day or so until it stops and then spray again for better control. It works on contact, so it doesn't need to dry on to work. Downside is if it washes off, no protective properties.


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## bilbo-in-maine

I was able to get the spraying done at the end of the day I bought the fungicide. Man, I didn't know just how bad a disease downy mildew is. The two affected varieties now have totally blasted looking leaves that look like some corrosive liquid was sprayed on them, and it wasn't the fungicide. That did a great job of knocking the fungus right out. The St. Pepin has so little green leaf material left that I'll be surprised if it can ripen clusters - Brix is at 12 - and I'm concerned that the vines themselves may be weakened going into winter. St. Croix is in much better shape with a lot of good leaf area left but Brix on it is only one point better. I've never seen downy here in four years and was bowled over by it. Powdery is tame in comparison.
It has been interesting to see which varieties are susceptible and which are resistant. The Saints Pepin and Croix are susceptible while Marquette, Foch, Landot Noir, Frontenac and Frontenac Gris are resistant and didn't exhibit the slightest symptom. Toward the end of the season the latter except for Marquette DO need to be sprayed for PM around here but that's been it historically. The lesson has been to anticipate and act prior to the expected arrival of a hurricane in addition to the regular maintenance work. 
The raccoon that took several clusters of the Marquette before I lured him to the Have-a-Heart trap is an entirely different matter. Luckily I don't have the bird problem that Rich seems to have, but each year I trap a raccoon or two and suffer the yellow jackets and other wasps that can ruin quite a bit of fruit unless I don't mind using Sevin which I have resisted doing since we also keep bees. In a few weeks the work load in the vineyard will have crested and I can ease into autumn as the vines go dormant, but at the moment efforts are more concentrated as I try to get a decent harvest.


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## grapeman

Wow that is really low brix Bill! My St Pepins are at a solid 18 brix and the St Croix is about the same or a bit higher. I may need to pick some of the young St Pepin as they are starting to split with all the rains we had.


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## bilbo-in-maine

And what a damp, rainy end of growing season it has been! Disease pressures have been non-stop since the end of August and hurricane Irene. I just completed harvesting this weekend, hand sorting good from bad. Even though everything needed more hang time, berry rot and splitting were getting out of hand. Rich, neither the St. Croix or St. Pepin got past Brix 14. These were the two varieties blasted by downy mildew and the vines stopped working. Many canes remain green, not browning up nicely in preparation for dormancy.

Thoughts at the end of the season:
1. The spray schedule is important, even if the vines look great and there is absolutely no trace of disease earlier in the growing season. Protect the berries right from the get go, it is impossible to guess what weather conditions will be at end of season that will exacerbate disease that sets in at berry set.
2. Spraying 60 vines by hand with a 3 gallon tank sprayer is insane. The labor and time it takes to do the whole vineyard makes one shy away from the chore.
3. It may make sense to cut out several varieties and plant some of the newly developed varieties, something with more disease resistance that offer very good characteristics for wine making.

Questions for forum members:
1. Can anyone recommend a good small power spray set-up? I've seen a product that mounts to an ATV with small gas engine blower on the rear and chemical tank mounted in front. An ATV is the only thing that will fit between my rows so it is attractive, but I have no idea how well it does the job. http://www.mistsprayers.com/sprayers/atv_sprayer.php
2. Any recommendations for alternate new varieties to replace those that are proving disappointing? Perhaps Petite Pearl? Maybe just add more Marquette to the 16 vines now planted? If U. Minnesota and Cornell have something new and exciting available I'd like to hear of them.

Best of luck to others now harvesting, I hope the season has been a good one.


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## OilnH2O

I really feel for you, Bill, with all the rain. I know people out here who use small 4-wheelers with spray rigs but it is for spraying _down_ for weed control. But spraying out and up is different. I'll keep my eye out but at least I know there are 4-wheeler spray rigs -- just the distribution bars won't work for our purposes.


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## grapeman

I can help more in the off season, but for now I will say you can get an inexpensive powered spot sprayer that will handle seveal nozzles. Mount that on the ATV and you have an acceptable spray rig.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Rich, I imagine you are busier than a one armed paper hanger at the moment. Even with my tiny operation I just don't have the time to attend to all that should be done on a number of different fronts. You must feel overwhelmed. This weather doesn't help either. No problem waiting to see what you have in mind, also if you want to chime in regarding new varieties.

Hi Dave, yes, I've seen what you describe. I don't have an ATV actually. I know there are powered backpack spray rigs but what I've seen look like they don't generate a fine spray or mist, just a stream. I'll have to keep digging, plenty of time this winter. Today's goal is to get the Foch off gross lees and start MLF. Got Marquette started last night. I pressed Foch at Brix 16-17 both last year and this rather than let it ferment down to dry in order to get it off the skins early, and taste nibbles are good.


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