# Winexpert Selection Italian Amarone



## Stevelaz (Oct 24, 2016)

Is this a good kit? Has anyone used this Amarone before? Is this considered a higher end kit? Never did kit before and thinking of trying it.

Homebrew Supply has this kit for $103.00, and then 18.00 Fed ex ground shipping, $121 total. Great price. My dealer by me sells exact kit for $168.00


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## vacuumpumpman (Oct 24, 2016)

That is actually my first kit - 

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50428


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## bkisel (Oct 24, 2016)

I consider an 18L kit with skins and oak high end. That's a great price assuming you're getting a fresh kit - manufacture date showing kit less than 6 months old.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 24, 2016)

Thats the next thing i was going to ask. Is it ok if i get it now and start in month or two. I think i will try to call them tomorrow to see if i can find out how old the kits are at that price.


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## jgmann67 (Oct 24, 2016)

It is a very good kit. Enjoyable after about a year. I'm told it will knock your socks off after two. 

I followed the same modifications that Steve did (as suggested by Joeswine). Just a great wine in every regard. If you like a big Italian red, you should give this a shot.


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## jumby (Oct 25, 2016)

I agree, this is a very good kit and in my regular rotation. I made this 4-5 times. I have a few cases that are 2+ years old and excellent. I also drank many more approaching a year old and they were very good too.


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## drainsurgeon (Oct 25, 2016)

bkisel said:


> I consider an 18L kit with skins and oak high end. That's a great price assuming you're getting a fresh kit - manufacture date showing kit less than 6 months old.



So, what happens to kits as they age? I never thought to look for a date on them.


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## Johnd (Oct 25, 2016)

They all have manufacture dates on them, and shelf lives based upon the type of kit that they are. The chems can get old as well. I took a chance on an expired / reduced price kit from my LHBS once, and it was just fine. Second time I did it, the juice was oxidized and discolored and I pitched it.


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## jumby (Oct 25, 2016)

You can get the same kit for about the same price from "Label Peelers" and the kit will be fresh. They are the only seller I deal with and their everyday prices are hard to beat.


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## bkisel (Oct 25, 2016)

drainsurgeon said:


> So, what happens to kits as they age? I never thought to look for a date on them.



I should have typed 12 months not six months for an 18L kit. Lower end kits are okay for 18-24 months. [I got this info, years ago, from RJS CS.]

I'll ditto what johnd posted with regards to aged kits.


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## drainsurgeon (Oct 25, 2016)

Johnd said:


> They all have manufacture dates on them, and shelf lives based upon the type of kit that they are. The chems can get old as well. I took a chance on an expired / reduced price kit from my LHBS once, and it was just fine. Second time I did it, the juice was oxidized and discolored and I pitched it.



Just how does juice oxidize...in a sealed bag with no air???


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## Johnd (Oct 25, 2016)

drainsurgeon said:


> Just how does juice oxidize...in a sealed bag with no air???



Speculating, but the bags do have air in them, or some type of gas, I've never seen one without. I suppose those double bags aren't completely impermeable to O2, nor is the cap 100% airtight. That's my best guess...........FWIW.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 26, 2016)

Well, i ordered the kit yesterday, total with shipping was 120.00. I called them first and the guy assured me is was not an old kit, and i should have it in about 5 days. In fact i just checked and it shipped out yesterday afternoon already. When i get the kit i will let you know the date on it.

I also checked label peeler and yes prices are very good there too, the same price with shipping for the same kit!


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## Stevelaz (Oct 27, 2016)

UPDATE: 

Dam! Just received my kit, That was fast! However, i do not see a date of expiration anywhere or any other date. Where should i find that? 

Also, i opened to make sure everything was there and noticed the grape pack is in a plastic bag with a screw cap, like the juice bag, but smaller bag. It is kind of mushy liquid. Is that how its supposed to be? I thought it would be dried skins. When you put it in the mesh bag do you squeeze out the liquid before butting it in? Thanks. Probably will not be able to start till next week...


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## jumby (Oct 27, 2016)

That's the way the skins come. I soak them in warm water before transferring them to the mesh bag. They seem a little easier to remove after soaking. I found it's easiest to cut 1 side off the bag and squeeze the contents into the mesh bag. I usually use a spoon after squeezing to get out the remaining contents. I also add all the wood dust to the bag. That makes for less liquid waste when racking from the fermenter to a carboy.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 27, 2016)

I was just looking at the 2 chaptalization sugar packs and i noticed little light brown clumps throughout the mix in both bags. Is that normal? what is that? I figured this should be pure white.


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## Johnd (Oct 28, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> I was just looking at the 2 chaptalization sugar packs and i noticed little light brown clumps throughout the mix in both bags. Is that normal? what is that? I figured this should be pure white.



Don't know specifically what they are, but I have seen them as you describe, and others with pure corn sugar and no specks in them. At any rate, there's nothing wrong with your packs.


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## jgmann67 (Oct 28, 2016)

Johnd said:


> Don't know specifically what they are, but I have seen them as you describe, and others with pure corn sugar and no specks in them. At any rate, there's nothing wrong with your packs.




Yep. Same happened to me - air, a little moisture, and sugar does that I think. You can ask for replacements from your retailer, but there's nothing wrong with them.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 28, 2016)

Ok, Thanks!

If im reading the right date code then the kit is not old at all. Im looking at the numbers: 4 216 16. If im correct the 4 means nothing, the 216 is the day of the year which is aug 3, and 16 meaning 2016. Also the yeast packets have an expiration date of 7-2018.

Also, the directions for the chaptalisation say to "dissolve the contents of both Chaptaisation packs into 1 1/2 cups hot water". Is that enough water for both packs or is it 1 1/2 cup for each pack? Thanks!


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## Johnd (Oct 28, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Also, the directions for the chaptalisation say to "dissolve the contents of both Chaptaisation packs into 1 1/2 cups hot water". Is that enough water for both packs or is it 1 1/2 cup for each pack? Thanks!



I looked up your instructions on line, dissolve both in the 1.5 cups hot water. This addition should not take place until your wine has been fermenting for several days and the SG is at 1.015 or lower.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 28, 2016)

Ok. I know about adding it a few days later, Im just looking ahead. lol Have not started the kit yet .

I was just looking for another thread i read somewhere where someone suggested soaking the oak dust in water the day before you start for some reason. Did you guys do that?


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## jgmann67 (Oct 28, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Ok. I know about adding it a few days later, Im just looking ahead. lol Have not started the kit yet .
> 
> I was just looking for another thread i read somewhere where someone suggested soaking the oak dust in water the day before you start for some reason. Did you guys do that?



I've done that in the past with some kits - made some "oak tea" then poured it in to the wine. Smells good.


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## Johnd (Oct 28, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Ok. I know about adding it a few days later, Im just looking ahead. lol Have not started the kit yet .
> 
> I was just looking for another thread i read somewhere where someone suggested soaking the oak dust in water the day before you start for some reason. Did you guys do that?



I kinda figured that's what you were doing, but just wanted to make sure. When I have oak dust and bentonite to add to a ferment, heat up the prescribed amount of water to near boiling, add it to the fermenter and mix the bentonite in, then mix in the dust. I find that it completely saturates and mixes in much better and doesn't stay floating around in the fermenter for days.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 28, 2016)

Ok, that sound like a good idea. Thanks! Hoping to start it this weekend!


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## bkisel (Oct 28, 2016)

Johnd said:


> I kinda figured that's what you were doing, but just wanted to make sure. When I have oak dust and bentonite to add to a ferment, heat up the prescribed amount of water to near boiling, add it to the fermenter and mix the bentonite in, then mix in the dust. I find that it completely saturates and mixes in much better and doesn't stay floating around in the fermenter for days.



I'll have to try that! Thanks for the tip.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 28, 2016)

Just for the heck of it, i called winexpert and asked about the little light brown specks and clumps in the chaptalization packs. She said it is made that way and that addition was added to help improve the overall quality of the wine. She said they have been getting numerous inquiries about that. She wasn't exactly sure what it is but thinks it is a caramelized sugar...


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## Grabo (Oct 28, 2016)

I had just assumed that Winexpert mixed different sugars (for whatever reason). Like the sugars in this picture:

https://englishbakinginamerica.com/tag/granulated-sugar/


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## Stevelaz (Oct 28, 2016)

Kinda looks like the soft brown in that pic.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 29, 2016)

Started my kit today. Mixed everything this afternoon and pitched the yeast at 10pm. 
Sg was at about 1.092


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## vacuumpumpman (Oct 30, 2016)

That appears to be almost exactly what I had also - 

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50428


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## dcbrown73 (Oct 30, 2016)

I'm starting mine now, it has two packets of yeast. Is this correct or did I actidently get two? It's time to toss the yeast and I'm not sure if I show toss both.


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## AZMDTed (Oct 30, 2016)

Both, lots of work for the yeast on this one.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 31, 2016)

yes, both yeast packs. Mine is really rolling now, day 2, will check sg in a bit.


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## dcbrown73 (Oct 31, 2016)

I'm extremely excited about this kit.

It's a WE Select, but looking at it I would swear it was an Eclipse kit.

I was very surprised about how big (and the fact there are two) chapitalization bags included.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 31, 2016)

My sg is at 1.072, adjusting for must temp of 73 I guess sg is at 1.074??


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## Stevelaz (Oct 31, 2016)

Hay dcbrown, does your chapitalization packs have little brown clumps/specks mixed in?


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## dcbrown73 (Oct 31, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Hay dcbrown, does your chapitalization packs have little brown clumps/specks mixed in?



I don't think so, but I will have to double check once I get home. I will let you know this evening.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 31, 2016)

My ferment is really roarin. Is the fruit bag supposed to float all the time? I believe it does. I'm pushing it down when stirring but it pops right back up! Are u supposed to squeeze the bag at all during fermentation?


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## malfrune (Oct 31, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> My ferment is really roarin. Is the fruit bag supposed to float all the time? I believe it does. I'm pushing it down when stirring but it pops right back up! Are u supposed to squeeze the bag at all during fermentation?



What I do for stirring/punchdown is poke my spoon into the side of the bag and twist the spoon, gets the bag to wrap itself around the spoon and helps squeeze out whatever juice is in it. Before I rack I'll squeeze it out good by hand to get everything out.


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## jgmann67 (Oct 31, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> My ferment is really roarin. Is the fruit bag supposed to float all the time? I believe it does. I'm pushing it down when stirring but it pops right back up! Are u supposed to squeeze the bag at all during fermentation?




Answers to your questions: Yes... and Yes.


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## dcbrown73 (Oct 31, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Hay dcbrown, does your chapitalization packs have little brown clumps/specks mixed in?



I have what looks like little red (bad lighting at night) dots in it. Some bigger than others, but overall. Very small.

Not sure if you can really see them here, but they are visable.


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## vacuumpumpman (Oct 31, 2016)

I did not use a fruit bag - I just let them float around like regular skins would and then I used a strainer to catch them at the end.


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## Stevelaz (Oct 31, 2016)

Dcbrown, your cap packs do look like mine with them small light brown specks.


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## jumby (Nov 1, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> My ferment is really roarin. Is the fruit bag supposed to float all the time? I believe it does. I'm pushing it down when stirring but it pops right back up! Are u supposed to squeeze the bag at all during fermentation?



I put 25 large glass marbles in my mesh bag. That does a pretty good job of keeping it under the surface.


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## Stevelaz (Nov 1, 2016)

Dam! Thats a great idea, wish i would have thought of that. Not sure i want to mess with it now. I have a ton of marbles. I use them to help top off my carboys!

Also how about the addition of FERMAID K with this kit? Do you think its ok to use? The kit direction do not say to do it or not. Anyone use fermaid K with this kit? Will it alter the results? I wouldn't think so...


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## Johnd (Nov 1, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Also how about the addition of FERMAID K with this kit? Do you think its ok to use? The kit direction do not say to do it or not. Anyone use fermaid K with this kit? Will it alter the results? I wouldn't think so...



The kits typically come with all of the nutrients necessary for fermentation already in the juice, IMHO, there is no need to add any. 

If you just want to do it, you can, but there may be nutrients left over in the wine that would be food for things you don't want to grow in your wine.

You'll likely get varying opinions, some folks here feed kits all the time without ill effects, some don't feed them at all, with no ill effects..........


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## dcbrown73 (Nov 1, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Dam! Thats a great idea, wish i would have thought of that. Not sure i want to mess with it now. I have a ton of marbles. I use them to help top off my carboys!
> 
> Also how about the addition of FERMAID K with this kit? Do you think its ok to use? The kit direction do not say to do it or not. Anyone use fermaid K with this kit? Will it alter the results? I wouldn't think so...



Make sure you use food quality marbles. The stuff from China can have lead and other chemicals in them and you definitely don't want that in your wine!


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## Stevelaz (Nov 2, 2016)

Wow! What the heck? I pitched the yeast Sunday night, now this morning Wednesday, sg is at about 1.012! Not even 3 full days on the yeast! Directions are way off on days! I guess I better get Chaptalization started!


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## drainsurgeon (Nov 2, 2016)

I had a skeeter-pee that fermented out--DONE in 3 days. I called it my microwave wine.


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## Stevelaz (Nov 2, 2016)

After the Chaptalization packs were mixed and added the sg went to 1.022. Here I what it looked like after mixing! A brownish slurry 

Also I'm still using a towel to cover primary. Am I still good with that or should I put cover on with air lock?


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## Johnd (Nov 2, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> Also I'm still using a towel to cover primary. Am I still good with that or should I put cover on with air lock?



You should be ok for a day or two, the new sugar in there will keep the ferment going. The Amarone's that I've done with the added sugar packs have all fermented down below 1.000, and typically get transferred to carboy in the 1.005 - 1.010 range, which is when they are slowing down a good bit. The transfer racking also seems to invigorate the fermentation a bit to help it get down below 1.000 as the alcohol is getting pretty high, just a personal observation..................


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## dcbrown73 (Nov 2, 2016)

Stevelaz said:


> After the Chaptalization packs were mixed and added the sg went to 1.022. Here I what it looked like after mixing! A brownish slurry
> 
> Also I'm still using a towel to cover primary. Am I still good with that or should I put cover on with air lock?



I haven't even read that far into the instruction for it. I supposed I had better if there are new things to do with the chap packs. 

Last night when I checked it, it was at 1.060 @ 79F. (Started it on Sunday and hte gravity was only 1.090)


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## Stevelaz (Nov 2, 2016)

Yes, keep an eye on it!! Yesterday my sg was at 1.040 and this morning is was at 1.012, well below the 1.020 (or less) where they say to do the chaptalisation. The temp in my room is only 72, but the must is at about 75 deg.


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## Stevelaz (Nov 4, 2016)

Well, 5 days since i pitched the yeast and today sg was at 0.996-98. Racked into carboy and looking good...That was fast and way off from number of days in directions. Good to have hydrometer! Airlock bubbling nicely!


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