# what is: Liquigel and Siligel from La bodega kit?



## rshosted (Feb 17, 2007)

I am asking to see if anyone knows what liquigel and siligel are made from? They came in my La Bodega Port kit. I don't like to use any animal byproducts in my wines (to accomidate friends). Anyone know if either of these products are sturgen or gelatin?

Thanks,
Ryan


----------



## PeterZ (Feb 17, 2007)

Siligel is made from silica - sand - that has been processed (polymerized) to act as a clarifying agent. Not sure about liquigel. It is probably something similar.

Most organic clarifying agents are chemicals made from crude oil fractions and other chemicals (synthetic polymers), which, if you want to be extreme, is an animal byproduct - dead dinosaurs. The exception I am aware of in our hobby is chitosan, which is made from crustacean shells.


----------



## grapeman (Feb 17, 2007)

I've often wondered about putting the chitosan in my kits, since it is made from crustaceans. I am very allergic to any type of crustacean, especially lobster, clams, oysters, etc. I've never had a reaction to any of my wine, but it still bothers me knowing it is in there. I know, what can a ground up sea creature shell do to me? Seems I'm allergic to a lot of things anymore, especially latex.


----------



## masta (Feb 17, 2007)

You don't not have to worry about using chitosin if you have a shellfish allergy and Tim V. discussed this in great detail last year at Winestock. Here is a quote from him summing up the facts:


"Lawyers make us put the shellfish warning on. Chitosan can't hurt you. Allergies are predicated on the presence of a foreign protein, and chitosan is protein free. 
Essentially they take lobster and shrimp shells and boil them in sodium hydroxide (lye), filter and neutralise them, and then boil them in S-H again. Fractionated and powdered after that, it's actually a very complex form of sugar, so can't provoke allergies.
Our production manager, Larry, is in the same boat as your wife. He can't come with us into seafood restaurants because the steam coming off a pot of boiling crabs sends him into anaphylactic shock. 
He can drink chitosan."


----------



## rshosted (Feb 18, 2007)

Thanks, Now I wonder what that Liqugel is. The name almost implies that it has 'gel', as in gelatin. which is an animal byproduct. I think most of my friend are okay with dinosaurs. (though it is a little wierd to think that 'dinosaur' is an additive to wines




)


----------



## PeterZ (Feb 18, 2007)

Gel does not necessarily imply animal origin. Many chemicals will "gel" if the environment changes in the correct way. Gelatin (Jello) is a product that gels after being subjected to far more heat than we would ever subject our wines to. High molecular weight polyacrylamides gel if you add them to water too fast. Siligel gels because of the pH change from mildly alkaline to mildly acidic (in the wine). 

Remember, though, that clarifiers attach chemically to the impurities they are removing and are also removed. 

If someone can get me the chemical name for liquigel I could probably find out where it comes from. Unfortunately, "Liquigel" is a tradename for many products, from eye drops to laundry detergent (presumably not the same item).


----------



## grapeman (Feb 18, 2007)

Thanks Masta. That's good information to know. I have never had a super severe allergic reaction, but enough of some that I try to avoid them when possible. I have tried seafood twice, lobster once(my throat swelled shut and I had like an asthmatic attack) and crab once(another attack and puked for two hours). The hospital freaks out every time I need an operation for kidney stones and find out I have a latex allergy(although they have multiple records of it). They say that I should be the first person in the operating room for the day to minimize latex exposure. The latex allergy limited forms of birth control available to me in my younger days.


I guess I can breath freely now knowing the chitosan won't cause shellfish allergies(I would have never though about it if the warning wasn't on the chitosan packet in the kits).


----------



## rshosted (Feb 18, 2007)

Masta, 

I wonder why I've heard stories of people with shellfish allergies having bad reactions for wine. Maybe they did, and assumed it was from a clarifier. I would have to assume commercial wines would have to list this if it was an issue... right? (then again, I've also heard that if you eat pop rocks and drink a soda you will blow up!



)

PeterZ,
That is a good point. i assume I should never assume when it comes to chemicals, huh?



Obviously there is a lot to know molecularly about chemicals and chemical reactions when you add anything to the wine. I have never thought of disecting it that far. 

Until i know about the other ingredient (liquigel) I'm going to hold off on adding something. It is a red wine, so I figure time in the bottle will do all I need to have done eventually anyway. Since I ususally bulk age for 6-12 months I won't worry about adding it for now. 

Also, a question for Masta and PeterZ... I have a relative who is allergic to gluten (celiac diseas). (gluten is commonly a product of wheat and used in EVERYTHING mostly to preserve stuff). I have asked a few wine manufacturers if they use gluten at all. I have been told no, but honestly that came through the local brew shop asking for me. I don't trust them completely since a little would seriously harm her. Anyone know anything about wine ingredient kits? I may have to ask La Bodega since I think she would really like this wine.


----------



## masta (Feb 18, 2007)

Not sure why someone would have a shellfish allergy from wine. 


I have no clue about the gluten allergy but I encourage you to ask the manufacturers these questions and from my experience they are very good at getting back to use in a timely manner. Please share any info you get back from them.


Here are the contacts: 


Winexpert: http://www.winexpert.com/contactus/contact_us.cfm


Mosti: [email protected]or [email protected]


RJ Spagnols: [email protected]





*Edited by: masta *


----------



## Mosti Mondiale (Feb 19, 2007)

Good Morning Winemakers,


My name is Mark Mastromonaco and I currently work at Mosti Mondiale as their Marketing Coordinator. I was invited by George to this growing forum and was extremely happy to read all the terrific things that have been said regarding our products. 


I will try to visit this forum as often as I can in order to answer any questions you may have. Please feel free to contact me directly should you wish to receive any information or feedback immediately.


With regards to this topic concerning liquigel and siligel, I decided to offer a little more insight with regards to what they are.


Liquigel is liquid gelatine and siligel liquid silica gel is primarily used as a catalyst.


I hope this helps all those in need of further explanantion. I wish you all a great day and would like to thank everyone for the continuous support and would like to thank George again for inviting me to this forum.



Best Regards,


----------



## masta (Feb 19, 2007)

Welcome Mark and we are very excited to have you aboard!


----------



## geocorn (Feb 19, 2007)

Thank you, Mark, for joining us. Be prepared for a lot of questions. There is a large interest in your products and your answers will be invaluable. I can't wait to see some of your answers, as well.


Thanks, again.


----------



## PolishWineP (Feb 19, 2007)

Welcome, Mark. Glad to have you on board and we appreciate your willingness to share your epertise with us. I'll be in the Big D in March so I can shop personally for our first MM kits.The great part of _this_ trip to Dallas is the fact that when I head back North I'll be in a rental truck with room for kits!


----------



## rshosted (Feb 19, 2007)

Thanks for the info Mark. That does help. I think I'll hold off on adding the clarifiers and do it the old fashion way. 

Mark if you're still reading this any word on if any of the kit ingredients contain gluten?


----------

