# The Norton Grape



## robie (Oct 20, 2011)

I am very interested in the Norton grape. I am reading a book "Wild Vine", about the history of the Norton. Very unusual history indeed, for a grape, whose wine won such honors in Vienna and France in the late 1800's, only to fall out of favor for many years following.

A question for those of you growing Nortons. How are they progressing? Have you made wine from them; if so, how has it turned out?

A month or so ago I tried a bottle of Norton, which was from Iowa, and was very pleasantly surprised at the quality. I was bracing myself for a musky, herbaceous taste, but neither was present. I don't really know why I was expecting those tastes; maybe because the only other bottle of wine I tasted, which was from Iowa, tasted that way. (Sorry Iowans, I haven't tasted enough of your wines to have made such a harsh pre-judgement, concerning the quality of your wines. Needless to say, I was totally wrong about the bottle of Norton.)

BobF, you are from Missouri, what is your take on it? Lots of Norton is grown there, but I haven't spoken with anyone from there.

Is the Norton grown in New York or is it not cold-hardy enough? I read it can handle -25F to -30F. I could get by with growing it in Colorado. 

Some refer to the Norton as the Cynthiana. Why is that? According to my book, history says the Cynthiana came from Arkansas and was discovered much later, so how come they are considered the same grape? I also have read the Norton is more astringent than the Cynthiana. Do the growers see them as the same?


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## BobF (Oct 20, 2011)

Robie - There is a lot of Norton around here and a lot of folks that like Norton wines. I don't grow them and I don't buy much commercial wine. Believe it or not, I've never tasted it.

As I understand it, there are some acid issues to deal with with Norton, but I haven't been through the process.


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## robie (Oct 20, 2011)

BobF said:


> Robie - There is a lot of Norton around here and a lot of folks that like Norton wines. I don't grow them and I don't buy much commercial wine. Believe it or not, I've never tasted it.
> 
> As I understand it, there are some acid issues to deal with with Norton, but I haven't been through the process.



Seems Hermann, MO. is pretty much the home for Norton these days. They publish a Norton Fermentation guide, which actually calls for checking the PH/TA several times during fermentation and keeping it adjusted all the way through, not just at the beginning of fermentation and after.


All I know is that I really liked the bottle I tried and it can grow in my area. Just don't know how it would turn out.


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## BobF (Oct 20, 2011)

robie said:


> Seems Hermann, MO. is pretty much the home for Norton these days. They publish a Norton Fermentation guide, which actually calls for checking the PH/TA several times during fermentation and keeping it adjusted all the way through, not just at the beginning of fermentation and after.
> 
> 
> All I know is that I really liked the bottle I tried and it can grow in my area. Just don't know how it would turn out.


 

Quite a few MO vineyards sell Norton. CO is quite drive though ...


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## winemaker_3352 (Oct 20, 2011)

Yeah they do. I am looking at doing a Norton next harvest 2012. They are harvested mid to late october to bring down the acidity. MLF is also an option i have read about.

Some do some don't. I read some information that some people used the Lalvin 71B-1122 to curve the malic acid in the grapes and supposedly did very will with that.


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## BobF (Oct 20, 2011)

winemaker_3352 said:


> Yeah they do. I am looking at doing a Norton next harvest 2012. They are harvested mid to late october to bring down the acidity. MLF is also an option i have read about.
> 
> Some do some don't. I read some information that some people used the Lalvin 71B-1122 to curve the malic acid in the grapes and supposedly did very will with that.


 
I thought you were strickly a white guy? Wine, I mean.

Sounds like you need to do 3 or 4 batches SxS for comparison.


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## winemaker_3352 (Oct 20, 2011)

BobF said:


> I thought you were strickly a white guy? Wine, I mean.
> 
> Sounds like you need to do 3 or 4 batches SxS for comparison.



That first sentence should have a comeback  But I am not going there...

Yeah I do mainly whites - I had a good norton from the Hermanoff winery. So i thought I might give it a try.


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## vtwinemaker (Oct 20, 2011)

*Norton Grapes*

Several vineyards in Virginia are growing the Norton grape with excellent results. Also, Winemaker Magazine had an excellent article about the Norton several years. I search for the article and post a link. Also, I will post a link to the Virginia wineries.


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## vtwinemaker (Oct 20, 2011)

*Norton Grape*

Here is a link to a couple of Virginia vineyards growing the Norton grape:

Chrysalis Vineyards:

http://www.chrysaliswine.com/begin.htm

Horton Vineyards:

http://www.hortonwine.com


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## BobF (Oct 20, 2011)

winemaker_3352 said:


> That first sentence should have a comeback  But I am not going there...
> 
> Yeah I do mainly whites - I had a good norton from the Hermanoff winery. So i thought I might give it a try.


 

Have you tried Chambourcin? Absolutely Wonderful!!!!


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## robie (Oct 20, 2011)

vtwinemaker said:


> Here is a link to a couple of Virginia vineyards growing the Norton grape:
> 
> Chrysalis Vineyards:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links.

Yes, Jenni McCloud of Chrysalis Vineyards is written about in the book I am reading. She is quite the business mind. She is the one who got the book's author interested in the Norton. I followed that link; they have won lots of medals with a wine from a grape few have heard about.


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## winemaker_3352 (Oct 20, 2011)

BobF said:


> Have you tried Chambourcin? Absolutely Wonderful!!!!



No I haven't. But I have heard that that was good as well.


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## TNWT (Oct 22, 2011)

*Norton grape/wine*

To date (10/2011) there are now 248 Norton wineries in 24 states: Alabama - 3, Arkansas - 6, Florida - 1, Georgia - 8, Illinois - 27, Indiana - 2, Iowa – 11, Kansas - 8, Kentucky - 13, Louisiana - 2, Maryland - 1, Michigan - 1, Missouri – 82, Nebraska – 3, New Jersey - 3, New York - 1, North Carolina - 5, Ohio - 3, Oklahoma - 6, Pennsylvania - 3, Tennessee - 12, Texas - 9, Virginia - 35, West Virginia - 1 (yes, I know that this total comes to 246 so I have to look up which state(s) I've neglected). It is amazing the explosion of wineries that are offering this wine today. Though strikingly different Norton variations can be found in various geographical areas, in most states there is usually one or more excellent examples to be found.


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## deboard (Oct 22, 2011)

I am really hoping that Norton can become for parts of the US like Shiraz for Australia or Malbec for Chile and Argentina. That signature kind of grape that you more or less associate with a region. 

Not that I don't want wineries to try other grapes, but the middle states like MO, KY, VA, among others are just a little too humid for most european grapes. It's so much work to keep disease under control that local wineries can't even guarantee they will get to use their harvest. One winery close to me lost their entire crop of Riesling due to too much rain, the grapes were not worth making wine with due to having no flavor. With Norton ripening mid October and being resistant to most humidity related diseases, it's almost perfect for the area. 

Cornell is doing some pretty amazing work in grapes as well, making a lot of new hybrids intended for wine production in NY and other places. Grapes like Corot Noir have good tannins than most and are more disease resistant than european grapes. 

I picked up a 5 gallon lug of Corot Noir juice at Walker's when I went through. It's not done yet, but it's promising I think. If I like the result I may buy a few vines.


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## Randoneur (Oct 22, 2011)

I grow Norton and have for several years along side of Cab Sauv and Cab Franc. I blend the Cabs, but alway bottle the Norton by itself. Norton is almost as good as the Cab blend most years and better once in a while. For me it always has high acid at harvest (1.1 to 1.2 TA), but I add Tartaric anyway to drop the pH down below 3.6 during fermentation, then do MLF and Cold Stabilize to drop the acid later.


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