# primary - spigot o'no



## sangwitch (Aug 17, 2006)

I want a larger primary so that I can whip the juice and water together with my drill mixer. Since my current primary is only 7.5 gallons I've always had to stir by hand and I think that's why some of my previous efforts have produced weak wine. 


I've seen a lot of posts that mentionthe ease in usinga spigot, but beyond a few folks trying to fix some small leaks I haven't run across any posts that are blatently anti-spigot.


Can we get some pros / cons from people who have used both? 


Has anyone drilled their own holes for spigots? If so, any tips? 


I'd also like to hear people's preference in primary size and why? 10 gal? 20 gal? 


Thanks in advance!*Edited by: sangwitch *


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## masta (Aug 17, 2006)

I want a larger primary so that I can whip the juice and water together with my drill mixer. Since my current primary is only 7.5 gallons I've always had to stir by hand and I think that's why some of my previous efforts have produced weak wine. 


The standard in the home wine/beer making today is a 6.5 gal for making beer and a 7.9 gal for making wine. A 7.9 gal primary is certainly large enough to use a drill mounted stirrer when making a 6 gallon kit including the Crushendo Series.


I've seen a lot of posts that mentionthe ease in usinga spigot, but beyond a few folks trying to fix some small leaks I haven't run across any posts that are blatantly anti-spigot.


I was the guy who didn't have spigots on my primaries up until 2 years ago and was using a racking cane to transfer to a carboy. Today all my primaries have spigots since I learned from other forum members and George that it saves time and effort. Never going back to no spigot!


Can we get some pros / cons from people who have used both? 


Pros: less work and effort sanitizing equipment and saves time (I normally make more than one batch at a time)


Cons: chance of leakage if not installed properly and leak checked well. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN !!!


Has anyone drilled their own holes for spigots? If so, any tips?


I have and used a normal spade bit and it works but not the best tool since the hole can be ragged and the gasket will not seal properly. AVari-Bit StepDrill Bit might be the best tool.

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I'd also like to hear people's preference in primary size and why? 10 gal? 20 gal? 


A 7.9 gal has worked for me since I have not made any batches bigger than 6 gallons.


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## sangwitch (Aug 17, 2006)

Thanks Masta. Perhaps my problem is my drill is too strong as I can easily get 6 gallons of liquid to splash over the side of the primary. I have to go to Home Depot today so maybe a variable speed drill needs to be on my list!


It is ok to have a larger primary though right? The CO2 should prevent the wine from getting too much oxygen in the first stage?


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## masta (Aug 17, 2006)

A variable speed drill is definitely the way to go and yes a larger primary is certainly fine to use.


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## Coaster (Aug 17, 2006)

My primary has a spigot but it's pretty high and I find I leave a fair amount behind when using it unless I tip it towards the end of racking.


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## sangwitch (Aug 17, 2006)

Does a spigot have any kind of screen on it? How does any of the sediment stay behind?


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## masta (Aug 17, 2006)

Tipping the primary to get *all the liquid* out through the spigot is what you should be doing and there is noneed for a screen. Only the real heavy solidsneed tobe left behind at this stage and getting some of the lees is fine.


The main goal of the transfer from the primary to the secondary to get the wine away from any air (oxygen) and get it under an airlock so the yeast can concentrate on consuming the remainder of the sugar and not multiplying.


The primary fermentation is also called an aerobic fermentation 
because the fermentation vessel is allowed to be opened to the 
air. This air plays an important roll in the multiplication of 
the yeast cells. 


The secondary fermentation is an anaerobic fermentation which 
means that air exposure is to be kept to a minimum. This can 
easily be done by attaching an air-lock to the fermentation 
vessel. It is this reduction in air exposure during the secondary 
fermentation that entices the yeast to forget about multiplying 
and start giving its energy completely to making alcohol.


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## bilbo-in-maine (Aug 17, 2006)

If there is a concern with trying to leave a lot of gross (large) sediment behind while using the spigot, use one of the large funnels with the sediment screen (George carries them) in the receiving carboy. This will catch a lot of stuff you may like to leave behind.


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## geocorn (Aug 17, 2006)

With the wine kits, sediment is not an issue during the first racking. You will have plenty of time for the sediment to fall out. The important aspect is to get as much wine as you can. That is where the spigot comes in. BTW, get an airlock brush to clean the spigot. The spigot is a great place for mold to grow when not in use.


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## pkcook (Aug 18, 2006)

One other small tip that I often forget to do myself is leave the spigot open when not in use to allow it to dry. I have used pipe cleaners soaked in K-Meta to swab out the spigot as well, but the airlock brush is a better option.


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## sangwitch (Aug 18, 2006)

Now I know where I was losing so much wine in my process. I was aware of the main goal ofcutting down on oxygen contact for the anaerobic fermentation, but I thought that _part_ of the goal was to leave behind as much sediment as possible. Thanks everyone for setting me straight!


Question: My wines have been weak in the past... could this be one of the main reasons? That I was leaving so much richness behind on the first racking? Thinking about it now, it makes perfect sense. Dang! One of the other reasons, I think, was not mixing my juice and water well enough. 


Anyway... yesterday I ordered a new primary with spigot and an airlock brush from George (as well as someother goodies) and I'm looking forward to answering a lot of other questions through experimentation!


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## winesnob (Aug 18, 2006)

sangwitch said:


> Question: My wines have been weak in the past... could this be one of the main reasons? That I was leaving so much richness behind on the first racking? Thinking about it now, it makes perfect sense. Dang! One of the other reasons, I think, was not mixing my juice and water well enough.



If you leave much wine behind with the first racking and replace it with water, I might get weak that way. Although it says it ok to top with water, I never do. I only add water to the primary. After that, I try to get as much juice out of the primary as I can.-Scott (the other one)


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## sangwitch (Aug 18, 2006)

winesnob said:


> If you leave much wine behind with the first racking and replace it with water, I might get weak that way. Although it says it ok to top with water, I never do. I only add water to the primary. After that, I try to get as much juice out of the primary as I can.-Scott (the other one)




I wasn’t thinking dilution so much… my thought was more along the lines of...leaving all the sediment behind means leaving behind yeast that should be in the secondary making alcohol instead of swimming at the bottom of my drain. (Any comments?)




I know what you mean about topping off with water. I think I read that kits are designed to handle up to an extra liter of water for topping off, but I've always cringed at the thought of pouring water into my wine.


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## winesnob (Aug 18, 2006)

[/QUOTE] 


I wasn’t thinking dilution so much… my thought was more along the lines of...leaving all the sediment behind </span>means leaving behind yeast that should be in the secondary making alcohol instead of swimming at the bottom of my drain. (Any comments?)</font>


[/QUOTE]

Leaving the wine on the lees (yeast sediment) and stirring up the lees to add flavor will not add much (if any) to the taste of red wine. White wine will benefit more from this.


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## Dean (Aug 18, 2006)

sangwitch said:


> I wasn’t thinking dilution so much… my thought was more along the lines of... leaving all the sediment behind means leaving behind yeast that should be in the secondary making alcohol instead of swimming at the bottom of my drain. (Any comments?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeast are a pretty resilient bunch of beasts! you don't need too many of them and they will always repopulate! That's why we add sorbate during the stabilization stage. Sorbate acts as a yeast reproductive inhibitor. And I don't think you need to worry about how you've stirred in the past. Poor stirring will throw off your initial SG readings, but the action of the yeast during fermentation in the primary will make sure all layers of sugar get mixed in quite well. I'm not very careful about racking anymore until after I have stabilized and want to clear the wine. Then, if needed, I top off with similar wine instead of water.*Edited by: Dean *


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## sangwitch (Aug 18, 2006)

Dean said:


> Yeast are a pretty resilient bunch of beasts! you don't need too many of them and they will always repopulate! That's why we add sorbate during the stabilization stage. Sorbate acts as a yeast reproductive inhibitor. And I don't think you need to worry about how you've stirred in the past. Poor stirring will throw off your initial SG readings, but the action of the yeast during fermentation in the primary will make sure all layers of sugar get mixed in quite well. I'm not very careful about racking anymore until after I have stabilized and want to clear the wine. Then, if needed, I top off with similar wine instead of water.




Thanks Dean. What you say makes perfectsense to me as well. A lot of this is coming back to mesince I'm just getting started againafter a two year lay-off (although I've only ever made 5 kits so still quite the newbie!). 


I guess the bottom line here is just not to worry too much about transferring sediment in the first racking as long as I get as much juice as possible transferred?


By the way, here's a clip from an article written by Tim Vandergrift on kit making (this is where I'm getting the idea that I haven't been mixing properly):


To make a properly balanced wine, you need to stir the full 6-gallon (23-litre) volume (again, more on this below) vigorously, prior to pitching the yeast. This is crucial: the concentrates are so viscous that they don’t actually mix easily with the added water. Indeed, unless the must is well whipped, it will stratify, with the top layer being very dilute (often below specific gravity 1.050) and the bottom layer extremely concentrated (sometimes above specific gravity 1.100). Not only would this throw off any attempt at a specific gravity reading, but the top stratum will ferment readily, until the yeast is exhausted, while the bottom layer will not ferment successfully at all. This will leave a weak tasting wine, low in alcohol and high in residual sugarænot a desirable result. <BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">


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## sangwitch (Aug 18, 2006)

By the way... below isa pointer to Tim Vandergrift'sarticle that I reference in my last post. 








http://www.winemakermag.com/feature/28.html


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## AAASTINKIE (Aug 19, 2006)

If you drill your own holes make sure to use the correct size, I
drilled a new primary 1/8" too big and it's a parts bucket now!!

I posted once before to use the small cloth bags for getting oak powder
or other thigs out of your wine by tying it onto the racking hose.


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## sangwitch (Aug 23, 2006)

I received a new primary today from Mr. FedEx man. I think I'm going to prefer the spigot. One thing is for sure, the new primary is a whole lot more sturdy than the one I was using. I don't remember where I got the original, but it's down right flimsy compared to the one I ordered from George.


I'm grateful that I read the various posts about leaking spigots. I had to fool with it a bit to get the seal tight, but I was happy to discover that during the cleaning phase and not after must was dripping out.


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