# Vadai Barrels



## Peter1 (Feb 14, 2014)

Looking for some advice on barrels. I've read a lot about Vadai barrels on a number of threads here. I really have two questions:

1. What flavors, aromas, etc does Hungarian oak impart on wine? I make Cabernet Sauvignon from fresh grapes and am curious since I have never used Hungarian oak - just French and American
2. What size barrel works best for home winemaking? On average, I have about 6-8 five gallon carboys in process. I was thinking maybe a 6-gallon barrel or maybe a 10. 

Interested in thoughts from winemakers more experienced than me! Thanks for the help

Pete


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 14, 2014)

Pete,
I have 4 Hungarian oak barrels from Vadai and couldn't be happier with them. The following has been taken from several Barrel and oak products manufacturers, who can explain it better than them..lol

*Heavy Toast* brings pronounced caramelized, carbonized and toast flavors very quickly.

*Medium Plus Toast* Is between Medium and Heavy Toast. It has aromas of honey, roasted nuts and a hint of coffee and spices.

*Medium Toast* has less tannins but more bouquet, so will impart more aroma than flavor. It has a warm, sweet character with strong vanilla overtones.

*Light Toast *fresh oak, coconut and fruit flavors.

From Morewine:

*French Oak Flavor Summary *
All toast levels have a perceived aromatic sweetness and full mouthfeel. 
French oak has a fruity, cinnamon/allspice character, along with custard/ crème brûlée, milk chocolate and campfire/roasted coffee notes*. (*Especially at higher toast levels.)
As the toast levels increased the fruity descriptor for the wine changed from fresh to jammy to cooked fruit/raisin in character.

*American Oak Flavor Summary*
The American oak had aromatic sweetness and a campfire/ roasted coffee attribute present in all three toast levels, with Medium Plus and Heavy toast having the highest intensity.
American oak had cooked fruit more than a fresh or 
jammy quality. 
American Oak imparted mouthfeel/fullness, especially in Medium Plus.

*Hungarian Oak Flavor Summary *
The Hungarian oak at Medium toast displayed a high perceived-vanillin content, with roasted coffee, bitter sweet chocolate and black pepper characters. 
Medium Plus and Heavy toast imparted mouthfeel fullness, with only a slight amount of campfire/roasted coffee. Heavy also had pronounced vanillin. At all toast levels, there were unique attributes such as leather and black pepper, not observed in other oak origins.

That said, I prefer the Hungarian oak, for me, it is a better quality oak than the American oak, and obviously more affordable than the french oak.
In my Cab, I added 1 Medium heavy oak infusion spiral during fermentation which gave it an amazing level of complexity, and I plan on putting it through a medium toast Hungarian barrel (Vadai) for at least 6 month or more, Cab can take a good deal of oak.
I have 2, 5 gallon and 2, 6 gallon barrels, I plan on purchasing a 10 or 13 gallon barrel in the near future.
I hope that this helps.
Tom


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## Peter1 (Feb 15, 2014)

Tom

Extremely helpful information, thank you for sharing the insight. The Hungarian has definitely caught my interest and I'm most likely going to order one from vadai. I find that I typically have full, 5-gallon carboys so I may go with a 5 gallon barrel to start and rotate carboys in/out to keep the barrel in active use. 

I would assume the 5 gallon barrel will very quickly impart oak into a batch of wine based on the wine to surface area ratio? Maybe a couple of weeks in barrel depending upon style and preferred taste?

Thanks again for the insight!

Pete


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## skipdonohue (Feb 15, 2014)

i have two 32 gal vadai barrels... best things i ever bought in my life.. what they have done for my wine compared to glass is night and day.. theres a reason why you cant find one negative post anywhere about Vadai barrels 


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 15, 2014)

Pete,
I know that others have reported that 2 weeks for the first wine is enough, but I've been putting big reds in mine and leaving the first wine through 2-4 months with no issues, after that, I've been leaving my wines in the barrels between 4 -6 months.
My suggestion is to taste the wine after 2 weeks and make a decision. The biggest thing to remember with barrel aging is the the SO2 levels drop fast, you need to keep up on that.


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## nucjd (Feb 15, 2014)

I have done the same as you Pumpkinman with a Amarone, and cab with great results using my hungarian oak 6 gallon Vadai barrel.


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## ColemanM (Feb 17, 2014)

Wow I must be a wimp!! I felt my Nero D'avola was over oaked after 2 weeks (first wine in 20L vadai barrel after a white ferment) but my next wine which was a Lodi 11 Cab took 10 weeks to even taste the oak. I have nothing over 10 months old, so I can't tell you what a barrel will do to your wine but if you're using fresh grapes, they DESERVE to go into a barrel!!


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## sdelli (Feb 18, 2014)

I currently have 4 barrels and getting ready to add my 5th... 3 are Vadai and one is American... I like them all! Variety is great! I use the 23 liters for small batches and the 40 liters for the larger ones.... Trick is always...... Keep them full and turning to end of life! Like everyone said though. The sweet spot doesn't hit until you get to at least 3 months!


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 18, 2014)

I'm looking forward to owning one! But have been procrastinating just worried about any extra work or upkeep involved!


Carolyn


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## sdelli (Feb 18, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> I'm looking forward to owning one! But have been procrastinating just worried about any extra work or upkeep involved!
> 
> 
> Carolyn




No extra work..... Just extra commitment to keep making wine!


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 18, 2014)

Yup that's kind of what I was aiming at. But maybe if u have 9 carboys full I should think about that barrel soon!! 


Carolyn


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## Peter1 (Feb 21, 2014)

Well, I took the plunge today, called Vadai, spoke to Ruthy (whom by the way is a terrific woman!) and ordered my first barrel - 20 liter! Should arrive to my home next Thursday - I can't wait!

I'll cycle 5 5-gallon carboys of Cabernet Sauvignon wine from fresh grapes into the barrel over time. I think it will add an entirely new dimension to my wines. First time with Hungarian oak so looking forward to the differences as compared to French or American. 

Thanks for all the tips and feedback..it definitely influenced me to make the purchase!

Pete


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## nucjd (Feb 21, 2014)

Good choice Peter1. I love mine and am amazed at the improvement. It is like going from black and white TV to color TV.


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## skipdonohue (Feb 21, 2014)

Congrats!, make sure you have a Vinmetrica on hand immediately… Testing so2 and barrel aging go hand in hand…


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## sdelli (Feb 21, 2014)

Peter1 said:


> Well, I took the plunge today, called Vadai, spoke to Ruthy (whom by the way is a terrific woman!) and ordered my first barrel - 20 liter! Should arrive to my home next Thursday - I can't wait!
> 
> I'll cycle 5 5-gallon carboys of Cabernet Sauvignon wine from fresh grapes into the barrel over time. I think it will add an entirely new dimension to my wines. First time with Hungarian oak so looking forward to the differences as compared to French or American.
> 
> ...




I probably would have gotten a 40 liter or about 10 gallon instead of just a 5 gallon... I have both 23 liter and 40 liter barrels. I can tell you I am MUCH happier with the 40 liter.... The time frame of oak .... The concentration effect is much more manageable! If you have 25 gallons of wine I would do this.... First 10 gallons go for 2 months... Second 10 gallons goes for 4 months.... Take last 5 gallons and add 5 gallons from first run and third 10 gallons go for 6 months. Then take all wine at end and mix before putting back in carboys.... Total barrel usage is 1 year! Then.... Make more wine!


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## Peter1 (Mar 1, 2014)

Well, I received my 20 liter Vadai barrel this past Thursday and immediately began soaking the barrel per the instructions - on day two with the barrel full of water and absolutely no leaks! I followed the instructions to a T...and also used Tom's method of the tote half filled with boiling water, rotating, etc. at the same time. Worked out great!

So, I'll be filling the barrel on Sunday with my cab...then 4 more carboys waiting to go in. My question - how high should I fill the barrel to consider it "topped off" and safe from spoilage? Should the wine surface in the barrel be touching the silicone bung? Should it be just below the bung?


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## vabeachbear (Mar 1, 2014)

Peter1 said:


> Well, I received my 20 liter Vadai barrel this past Thursday and immediately began soaking the barrel per the instructions - on day two with the barrel full of water and absolutely no leaks! I followed the instructions to a T...and also used Tom's method of the tote half filled with boiling water, rotating, etc. at the same time. Worked out great!
> 
> So, I'll be filling the barrel on Sunday with my cab...then 4 more carboys waiting to go in. My question - how high should I fill the barrel to consider it "topped off" and safe from spoilage? Should the wine surface in the barrel be touching the silicone bung? Should it be just below the bung?
> 
> ...


All the way full, no air in barrel at all. A little leakage out when you put the bung in tight.


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