# How Long Do You Wait Before Drinking?



## NorCal (Mar 1, 2018)

I have to say that I am not the most patient person in the world, but by virtue of making too much wine, I have wine that I cannot get to for a few years. I would say that I start the day it is bottled and I finished 90% of the bottles within a year.
The reason I say this is that I made a Zin in 2015. The grapes weren't all that great, it really didn't taste all that great to me, however it won a Silver at the CA State Fair. A buddy, who ended up getting a number of cases sent me an email yesterday saying how good it was. I cracked one of my 20 or so left and sure enough, it was pretty darn good, so much better than what I remembered. I am wishing now I didn't make wine coolers and sangria out of a good number of those bottles.


----------



## dralarms (Mar 1, 2018)

I usually wait until late in the day. I find it hard to work if I drink too early. Lol


----------



## Boatboy24 (Mar 1, 2018)

dralarms said:


> I usually wait until late in the day. I find it hard to work if I drink too early. Lol



Ha! I was thinking the same thing!


----------



## sour_grapes (Mar 1, 2018)

Dr. Alarms for the win!!

Please note, however, that you cannot drink all day if you don't start in the morning!


----------



## sour_grapes (Mar 1, 2018)

But to answer the question seriously, here is what I do. For reds, I wait 1.5 years after pitching yeast to put it in my drinking rotation. (I may have a bottle after ~1 yr to see how it is doing.) Then, assuming it is now drinkable, I decide how long I want to drink this over. I have generally said something like 4 years. So then I drink the bottles at ~even intervals over the next four years. If, at any time during that period, I decide I want to age it longer, or, to the contrary, it is going downhill, I adjust the "date of last bottle consumed" up or down.

I know you are a spreadsheet guy. I have a spreadsheet developed that tracks all of this, and it tells me which of my bottles is next in line to be sacrificed.

For whites, I usually drink 'em all (or nearly so) the summer after I make them.


----------



## mainshipfred (Mar 1, 2018)

And remember, we're winemakers, we're allowed to start drinking early.


----------



## dralarms (Mar 1, 2018)

Ok, ok. It depends on the wine. My concord is good at 6 months in the bottle, but I had a peach that was nasty until 2 years+. Most of my wine it’s around 12 to 16 months in the bottle. Dang I’ve come a long way from bottling and then start drinking right away.


----------



## tjgaul (Mar 1, 2018)

I've been trying to age the whites 2-4 months in the carboy and then get started drinking them about a month after bottling. A batch tends to have a shelf life of 12 months if it's lucky. I've employed an alternate strategy with a few of the reds. On the 2nd or 3rd racking I go down to 5 gal and steal a gal to make a small 3 gal blend batch which gets bottled after 6-8 weeks and which is fair game immediately. This way I get to play winemaker a bit more (blending to taste), plus I get 15 bottles to enjoy somewhat young while I wait for the rest of the batch to finish aging (about a year in the carboy). 

The tasting room at our house opens at 10:30 on Saturdays. I really prefer to make blending, back sweetening and oaking decisions based on morning tastings. The palette is much fresher then. And, as Sour Grapes noted, you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.


----------



## sour_grapes (Mar 1, 2018)

tjgaul said:


> On the 2nd or 3rd racking I go down to 5 gal and steal a gal to make a small 3 gal blend batch which gets bottled after 6-8 weeks and which is fair game immediately.



I rather like that idea. Clever!


----------



## Donatelo (Mar 6, 2018)

I started this hobby in October of last year. I have made 4 one-gallon batches of Welches Concord grape wine in that time I still have six bottles and a gallon aging in the cellar. The recipe said that is should be drinkable at 6 to 8 weeks after primary fermentation. I make this as a drinker to keep me away from my Peach Chardonnay, Gewurztraminer and now my new batch of Merlot. I have 15 bottles of Dragons blood that I can drink now, with an age of 3 months on it.
In the long run it depends on the type of wine and what quality you are trying to achieve. I'd prefer to wait at least six months before opening anything , but that has not happened yet. Ask me in a year.


----------



## dcbrown73 (Mar 6, 2018)

NorCal said:


> I have to say that I am not the most patient person in the world, but by virtue of making too much wine, I have wine that I cannot get to for a few years. I would say that I start the day it is bottled and I finished 90% of the bottles within a year.
> The reason I say this is that I made a Zin in 2015. The grapes weren't all that great, it really didn't taste all that great to me, however it won a Silver at the CA State Fair. A buddy, who ended up getting a number of cases sent me an email yesterday saying how good it was. I cracked one of my 20 or so left and sure enough, it was pretty darn good, so much better than what I remembered. I am wishing now I didn't make wine coolers and sangria out of a good number of those bottles.



I just had a similar experience though I'm very inexperienced. One of the first wines I made was a chardonnay. Out of the around 32 bottles made. I drank them all within maybe five months since I had bottled it six months after fermentation. (so barely over a year old) I had a few 750s and two 375ml left that I buried in my closet to not drink them. They are now two years old and the last time I remember drinking one was a year ago. It's night and day the difference from the notes I wrote down. I mean, there is some similarities, but the wine's fruit softened and it's complexity and depth grew.

It never tasted bad, but it definitely got better. This was a white, (non-filtered bottled at six months, so it has some white floaties now) I can only imagine what more years could do to one of my reds...


----------



## balatonwine (Mar 7, 2018)

Wine making has taught me the importance of patience. Wine growing even more so: I am itching to harvest and make wine. But, no, I can not harvest yet. I need to let the fruit hang more to make a better wine. Patience gives enormous dividends in wine making.

I mostly make white wines. They are drinkable on bottling day. And, yes, I do drink some then. But they will be better after 6 to 12 months in the bottle. They should be consumed within 3 years.


----------



## Jack7033 (Mar 7, 2018)

As wine makers we all learn the hard way. I have learned that I need to wait at least 3 years, best is five, on reds. And at least one year on whites. I belong to the Rochester Area Home Winemakers Club and we all have learned the hard way. Bottle number 28 from a 6 gallon carboy is so much better than the first few. There is a reason you can’t find a 3 year old Brunello in the wine store. They don’t ship until 4 or 5 years old. They have learned something over the last few hundred years.


----------



## jgmann67 (Mar 16, 2018)

The secret to aging your wine - make more... lots and lots more. Think of your 'wine drinking' as the bottom of a funnel and your 'wine making' as the top. I suppose you could drink less, but who are we kidding. That's not gonna happen. [emoji12]


----------



## JohnT (Mar 16, 2018)

OK, @jgmann67 

What was it about your Zin that you did not like? If too sharp or tannic, then you can assume that there is a benefit to aging. 

Like @dralarms said, it really does depend on the wine. It is common to take 5 or 6 years for a Zinfandel to peak. I remember reading that this was one of the reasons for the production of so much white zin. Winemakers simply did not want to hold their red zin for so long. White zin can hit the market as early as 8 months or even earlier.

As a SOP, I age my wines a minimum of 18 months. There have been batches, however, that were deemed "bottle ready" in as little as a year. 

And IMHO the winning suggestion is by @jgmann67 ! Make MORE!!! I have it worked out so that at the point where 70% of a vintage is consumed, it is time to bottle the next one. Call it "over-lap". 

I do have bottles in my cellar that are 12+years old. At that age, the odd bottle can be found to have "gone off". On the other hand, I have some that are much, much, older. I still have about a case of my 1995 Cab that I bring out during crush. Surprisingly, it is still quite good, although faded.

One final note. I am deeply offended by the cavalier use of the work "*DRINKING"!!!!!*
If you are sipping wine BEFORE 12 am, it is "*TASTE-TESTING*"... I would even accept the term "Quality Control". Get your terms straight folks!!


----------



## bkisel (Mar 16, 2018)

Smaller kits 2 months bulk age then 2 months bottle age then start drinking. About the same with fruit/country wines. For larger kits 3 months bulk age followed by 3 months bottle aging. I have, as suggested by someone here, begun to hold out a bottle or two from each batch for longer aging.


----------



## Donatelo (Mar 17, 2018)

I am a newbie at this, but I am learning. If I bottle a Chardonnay, the kit I made it from says drinkable after bottling. Do I still have bottles of it in the cellar? Sure, about 12 out of a 30 bottle run. My Welch's Concord wine is drinkable after about a month, but all my wines are much better aged.
Currently, I have 3 gallons of Gewurzt, one gallon of Welch's and 3 gallons of white Cranberry ageing for another 2 months. I have 6 gallons of Merlot fermenting to dry and am about to start a 6 gallon Peach/ apricot Chardonnay. None of this is older than 5 months. Do you think I'm going to sit at this desk and twiddle my thumbs for a year, waiting to open a bottle? Of course not. I have 12 bottles of Chardonnay, 6 bottles of Welch's, 10 bottles of Dragons blood and some that I bought at the winery here. I am going to drink it all some day. Not all on the same day but some every day. If some reaches the one year mark, Great!


----------



## jgmann67 (Mar 17, 2018)

JohnT said:


> OK, @jgmann67
> 
> What was it about your Zin that you did not like? If too sharp or tannic, then you can assume that there is a benefit to aging.



Did I say I didn’t like my Zin?? I don’t recall. I have a Lodi Old Vin Eclipse kit that’s about 2 years old and is just starting to get good. It isn’t as jammy as I was hoping. But it’s still pretty good. 

I think next year’s fresh from grapes wine from California will be a Zin. See if I can get the kind of peppery/jammy Zin I like.


----------



## bein_bein (Mar 18, 2018)

I usually let my wines sit in the carboy at least 3 months or more, racking as needed. Once it's bottled I will wait at least 3 months before drinking any. Ideally I like to wait every 6 months; open a bottle after 6month, then 1 year, 18 months...so on. I make mostly fruit and veggie wines which seem to peak in flavor between 2-3years of age. Then the flavors begin to 'flatten'.
That's my favorite part winemaking, seeing how the flavor profile changes. In the early stages the different flavors are well defined with, what I call 'edges'. As the wine ages the 'edges' soften, the lines between flavors and blend more creating new nuances....That being said, the sad part is when a wine reaches it peak, and you open a bottle expecting a palate party....only to find the main event is only a shadow of it's former glory....


----------



## JohnT (Mar 19, 2018)

jgmann67 said:


> Did I say I didn’t like my Zin?? I don’t recall. I have a Lodi Old Vin Eclipse kit that’s about 2 years old and is just starting to get good. It isn’t as jammy as I was hoping. But it’s still pretty good.
> 
> I think next year’s fresh from grapes wine from California will be a Zin. See if I can get the kind of peppery/jammy Zin I like.




Sorry.. It was @NorCal . Put you down by accident.


----------



## NorCal (Mar 19, 2018)

It’s funny you say that, because I recently opened a 2015 Zin bottle. Any chance I had to take a bottle and make Sangria or a wine cooler (for guests), I would reach for a bottle of Zin, to reduce the herd. The Zin was just as you described pepper and jammy. It did win a silver at the state fair, but was the last thing I would reach for.

The bottle I had the other evening was pretty darn good. So, as it relates to this thread, “how long did I wait?”...not long enough. It took 3 years for it to come in to its own. I still have a few cases, but I started with a dozen.


----------



## stickman (Mar 19, 2018)

The cab blends I've been making require about 5yrs to really get good, but of course I don't wait that long to drink. I start sampling bottles early, I like to see how much bottle shock they have after bottling, and usually continue sampling every few months. It seems like the wine starts to recover after three months, and after a year in bottle the aromatics really start increasing. For me, there is something about pulling the cork and pouring that first glass, it's always interesting to see how they progress.


----------



## 4score (Mar 20, 2018)

Yeah....I agree with the "make more" if you want any chance of having something "aged". In my experience, there is a common change at 6-months after bottling. These are wines that have bulk aged for usually 9 or 10 months. Another 6 months in the bottle and BINGO, they really open up! They do continue evolving past that, but that 6-month in the bottle mark is huge for me.

So how do you invoke the patience required? My personal trick is shelving. I have three shelves in my little wine storage area. The top shelf requires a stool or ladder, so when I'm tempted to try a high-shelf wine, I'm usually too lazy to get the stool!


----------



## ceeaton (Mar 20, 2018)

I just don't bottle it. I have smaller batches then you'all, but most of my reds are approaching 2 years and I've got to start planning to bottle some. I've got some young whites and sugary reds that I can bottle at a year, but I only have four cases of clean bottles at this point. So my secret to aging is, don't have clean bottles to bottle them in. Tipping carboys is hard work and you've got to top them off afterwards, so that's how I get my wines to age (ie. pure laziness at it's best).


----------



## Johnd (Mar 20, 2018)

I got off to a fast start, making 30 kits during my first year of winemaking. First few were bottled quickly, and I learned the lessons first hand about proper waiting times before bottling. Now, I just have so much wine that it ages by default. All my 6 & 12 gallon barrels are neutral, so the wines sit in them for six months, some after waiting a year or more to get in. I bottled my last kit wine a few months ago, it was drinking great a month later at nearly 2 years old. Still have Fall 16 wines waiting for barrels.


----------



## heatherd (Mar 21, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> And remember, we're winemakers, we're allowed to start drinking early.


We're professionals! We get to "our work" early.


----------



## mainshipfred (Mar 21, 2018)

heatherd said:


> We're professionals! We get to "our work" early.



And sometimes work late!


----------



## wildhair (Mar 29, 2018)

We're supposed to age the wine? Huh............ ;-) 
I just started in 2017 and so far - most of mine are country wines - fruit, veggie, herb and flower wines - which I'm told tend to peak in the first year or 2. Except the root wines like beet and carrot - which are supposed to age a 1.5 or more. 
I bottled my first wines last March (2017) - there's still a few left...... maybe........ In fairness - I mostly make smaller batches. And I have given some away. OK, OK - I drank most of it.

The bottle of apple I recently opened after a year was smoother and improved, so maybe I should make more so some can sit. I did let the Dandelion age for 6 months before bottling it in January. They say dandelion wine should age at least a year, but you gotta sample along the way, right?

I made a big batch of Dragon's Blood for general consumption in the hopes that my other wines can linger a bit longer on the rack. We'll see if that works. HA! I also put a few in 375 ml bottles from each batch now - for tasting the progress and gifting.


----------



## NCWC (Mar 29, 2018)

I always take about 1/3 of what I make and stash it
If you can wait for 3 -4 years the wine really matures
But this is what it is supposed to do!


----------



## CUZN_J (May 23, 2018)

dralarms said:


> Ok, ok. It depends on the wine. My concord is good at 6 months in the bottle, but I had a peach that was nasty until 2 years+. Most of my wine it’s around 12 to 16 months in the bottle. Dang I’ve come a long way from bottling and then start drinking right away.



I am really way off this mark, first- if I make a 1 gal batch and get 4 bottles, then have to wait a year, what am I suppose to drink meanwhile? second- I have not seen so far [I am still reading] but how many batches per year do people have to make to get to the point of keeping up with your supply, I might drink a bottle a week, so it is going to be a while at a batch started every week, I want to get to the point that I finish drinking a batch say year old, and the next one will be ready, planing a year away is kind of a long process.


----------



## CUZN_J (May 23, 2018)

stickman said:


> The cab blends I've been making require about 5yrs to really get good, but of course I don't wait that long to drink. I start sampling bottles early, I like to see how much bottle shock they have after bottling, and usually continue sampling every few months. It seems like the wine starts to recover after three months, and after a year in bottle the aromatics really start increasing. For me, there is something about pulling the cork and pouring that first glass, it's always interesting to see how they progress.



Let me understand this, you open a bottle, pour a sample to taste, then you re-cork the bottle till you check next month, that doesn't effect the wine being opened up and closed again and again??


----------



## dralarms (May 23, 2018)

CUZN_J said:


> I am really way off this mark, first- if I make a 1 gal batch and get 4 bottles, then have to wait a year, what am I suppose to drink meanwhile? second- I have not seen so far [I am still reading] but how many batches per year do people have to make to get to the point of keeping up with your supply, I might drink a bottle a week, so it is going to be a while at a batch started every week, I want to get to the point that I finish drinking a batch say year old, and the next one will be ready, planing a year away is kind of a long process.


Lol. Making a one gal batch is futile. But to answer your question I have 6 to 9 5 or 6 gallon car boys going all the time. Sometimes more. You get to a point that you understand the aging process and know how much of one kind you can have left before you “have” to get another one cranking.


----------



## dralarms (May 23, 2018)

CUZN_J said:


> Let me understand this, you open a bottle, pour a sample to taste, then you re-cork the bottle till you check next month, that doesn't effect the wine being opened up and closed again and again??


Yes it will over time


----------



## Scooter68 (May 23, 2018)

And into your planning you need to think about what you may give away to friends or take to gatherings. *Come to think of it.... I think I'll just keep it ALL for ME*!


----------



## stickman (May 23, 2018)

CUZN_J said:


> Let me understand this, you open a bottle, pour a sample to taste, then you re-cork the bottle till you check next month, that doesn't effect the wine being opened up and closed again and again??



Once I open a bottle for early tasting, I usually drink it over the period of a few days, each day I check to see if it has improved or if it is falling apart. Many of these tannic Cab's can take the oxygen and will actually improve over the next few days, just indicating that more age is acceptable. At my sampling rate, if I don't make at least 12 cases annually, it will never see proper aging.


----------



## jburtner (May 23, 2018)

I agree with stickman on testing over a couple three days. Open two bottles or three if you need but yes the profile does develop over a couple days and at different temps too so put it in the fridge maybe and taste how it opens up as it comes up to temp.

A bottle a day sometimes two and maybe even three on occasion. Then there’s gifting and parties.... I mean tastings or dinners.... you do the math my fingers are blurry now.... 

Cheers!
-johann


----------



## NorCal (May 23, 2018)

I've got a 60 gallon of Cabernet Sauvignon that I made from the 2017 season. I'm not a big fan of it and took a sample to a respected commercial winemaker. He nonchalantly said, "give it another year in the barrel". Like yea, it just needs a little time....like another year of barrel care and feeding! So, the 2017 Cab will be bottled mid 2019 and then given another 3 months or so to settle down from bottling. Seems like forever.


----------



## stickman (May 23, 2018)

@NorCal You're the chef and you're doing that Cab "low and slow". Wine is the ultimate slow food.


----------



## Johnd (May 23, 2018)

NorCal said:


> I've got a 60 gallon of Cabernet Sauvignon that I made from the 2017 season. I'm not a big fan of it and took a sample to a respected commercial winemaker. He nonchalantly said, "give it another year in the barrel". Like yea, it just needs a little time....like another year of barrel care and feeding! So, the 2017 Cab will be bottled mid 2019 and then given another 3 months or so to settle down from bottling. Seems like forever.



You already know that big bodied, high tannin wines from good grapes take that long, time’s on your side, and access is exceptional living in the midst of a wine mecca!! Heck, I’m just this spring getting in the big bodied 15’s from many of my wine clubs. Plan for my 17 big blend in the 30 has always been barrel aging til Spring ‘19, that sucker gobbles almost a bottle per month. I’ll suffer with you, and will put another barrel in line this fall, probably a new 60 gallon frenchie.


----------



## Venatorscribe (May 26, 2018)

I mostly ferment fruit wines and ciders. I find that everything needs at least 12 months bottle conditioning. And after sampling - if it is still a bit sharp - I leave it for a further six months. When I can get my hands on some red grapes or fresh juice I ferment, hold and rack between carboys for at least 9 to 12 months. Holding everything under an airlock. Gives you time to clean up the wine, adjust acids if you really need to and oak. Then prior to bottling - maybe back sweeten and definitely sorbate it. Once in bottles I put my red wine away under the house and forget about it. Anywhere from 2 to four years. I have this nagging thought that I will die before I even get around to enjoying most my wine. Does anyone else think about this ?


----------



## wildhair (May 26, 2018)

LOL Nope - I'll be damned if some else will enjoy the "fruit" of my work because I die. I share it with those I want while I'm on the green side of the grass, but I intend to spend my kids inheritance before I die.............that includes my wine! LOL You have far more patience than I, good sir.


----------



## Venatorscribe (May 26, 2018)

Haha. I will certainly spend my dosh before I curl up the toes. But some of that wine will still need bottle time.


----------



## wildhair (May 26, 2018)

And your kids will thank you for that, I'm sure.


----------

