# Boun Vino Minijet (First Use - Failure)



## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

I got my new Minijet today and was very excited because I have two wines that just will not clear. The first is a peach that is several months old and has been fined with bentonite. The second is an apple that is almost a year old and has been fined with everything imaginable and is still cloudy. These are the primary reasons I bought the Minijet. I set the Minijet up as instructed and, using #2 filters, started to filter, The first couple of gallons were beautiful--clear and with a nice yellow color. From that point the amount of leakage from the filter began to increase with the reject directed to the carboy receiving the filtrate. At about 3 of the total of 5 1/2 gallons, the reject was very substantial then the notorious spurting from the filter began. I shut down, disassembled and inspected the pads. There was no obvious material on the pads so I have to assume it was plugged with very fine material. I poured the unfiltered and filtered wine together and placed it back under airlock.

Obviously, I was very disapponted since the unit failed to meet my expectations/needs. I will age the peach at least another month and take another crack at it with the Minijet. In the interim, I will be going to our vacation home in about 10 days, and I will filter the apple. If I get similar results to the peach, I will return the filter since it does not meet my needs.

Let us just say that for an old retiree I am more than a little stressed at the moment. Any suggestions will be appreciated.


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## Mr Robusto (Jun 8, 2007)

That sucks. 


Can you filter a gallon or two, then stop and clean the unit and start again? Seems silly, but better then clouding up the clean stuff.*Edited by: Mr Robusto *


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## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

I am sure you can discard the filters; add a new set and proceed. However, since the quality of the filtrate progressively degrades it would be difficult or, impossible, to pick the best time to replace the filters. It will be easier, I think, to refilter the entire batch. Which I plan to do. But, instructions say to "rest" the wine for a while before refiltering.


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## Wade E (Jun 8, 2007)

Did you use SuperKleer, I find this to be the best clarifier out there.
I havent had a batch fail from it yet although the apple I did took 1
1/2 weeks instead of 2-3 days like every other batch.


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## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

No, Wade, but I added sparkalloid following the filering debacle. I will order some SuperKleer tonight since I have now seen it recommended several times. Any thoughts on the Minijet?


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## geocorn (Jun 8, 2007)

The mini-jet will work fine if the wine is clear before you start to filter. There are really only 2 reasons for the results you described. Clogged pads or pads put in incorrectly. From the info you provided, my guess is that the wine was not as clear as you thought which caused the pads to fill up or your got into the sediment of your carboy. Either event will cause the scene you described. The other thing that can cause this is by putting all three pads in together, instead of separating them between the plastic plates. I had this happen to a customer 2 weeks ago.


If it clogs up next time, replace the filters. If it works fine after that, then your wine was not clear. It is important to remember that a filter is to polish a wine, not clear it.


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## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

I don't mean to sound argumentative, but if the wine were clear I wouldn't need the filter. The instructions with the filter instruct you to avoid the sediment, which I did, but the literature for this filter and posts here and elsewhere indicate use of the filter to clear cloudy/hazy wines. That is what I have. Perhaps I should have used a coarse filter first and then followed with a #2 filter.

I am confident I installed the filters correctly. They were individually sandwiched between the plates with the coarse side out. The top of all filters aligned with one another. Moreover, the first couple of gallons filtered beautifully.

If the Minijet won't filter my cloudy wines then I may be stuck with something I don't need.*Edited by: Smokegrub *


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## geocorn (Jun 8, 2007)

I sounds like you were misled. The Buon Vino filters are not designed to clear a cloudy wine. For that you should use a clarifier or, in the case of a pectic haze, pectic enzyme. Depending upon how cloudy the wine is, the coarse filter may work, but be prepared for a similar result.


I trust that it was not me, nor this forum that gave you the impression that it would clear a cloudy wine. If that was the case, and you are not satisfied, please call me to return the item. I don't think you purchased it from me, but if I or this forum led you to a bad purchase, we will make it right for you.


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## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

George, you seem to have the impression I am angry--I'm not. The wine received the proper amount of pectic enzyme, was fined with bentonite and was racked three times nevertheless it remains cloudy. There is no perceptible suspended material.

Buon Vino states in their instructions, "Wine must be racked or decanted at least once during the normal process of winemaking". They also state, "The #1 pads are a coarse pad...used as a first filtration to extract the larger suspended particles". The #2 pads remove smaller suspended particles and are used for second filtration".

I think I may have to pre-filter using the coarse filter. If that doesn't work, I am obviously misapplying the tool.

I am not seeking anything from you or this board except for more of the gracious professional advice and prompt service I have received thus far.

Please accept my apology if I have left you with another impression.*Edited by: Smokegrub *


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## scotty (Jun 8, 2007)

wade said:


> Did you use SuperKleer, I find this to be the best clarifier out there. I havent had a batch fail from it yet although the apple I did took 1 1/2 weeks instead of 2-3 days like every other batch.








Superclear is dynamite


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## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

I ordered some about an hour ago. I will give it a try. I hope you can see my point, however--if I can clear the wine with a fining agent I don't need a filter. I hope someone with personal experience with the Minijet can give me some advice.


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## geocorn (Jun 8, 2007)

smokegrub,


I did not think you angry, just dissapointed. I know there is a lot of bad (or not very clear) information on the web and I just wanted to make sure I was not the source of any bad information. I have been told over and over again that you will have problems with a filter if you wine is not clear. As a result, I always try to make sure my wine is clear before using a filter. At our last bottling party, we used the super jet with the pre-screen filter (which will work on a mini-jet, as well, with the right fittings) and we cleared 5 carboys with a single set of filterss. Now the SuperJet filters are larger and you can expect to clear at least 2 batches with one set of filters, but 5 carboys demonstrated that I probably did not even need the filter, but my guests like to use the toys.


Anyway, please let us know how the second use of the filter goes and my offer still stands!


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## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

George, you are a real gentleman. It is my privilege to use this site and to engage you in business from time to time.

I have ordered the coarse filters and will use one of those to pre-filter the apple wine in a week or so.

Before retiring last August I managed one of the largest publicly owned wastewater utilities in the nation and had 40 years technical experience in that industry. The primary key to successful wastewater treatment is solids/liquid separation. As in winemaking, gravity provides the most help but chemical coagulation of suspended matter is routinely followed with filtration. Separation of other solids from excess moisture is also commonly managed with sophisticated filtration methods. Some methods utilize back-washing when a filter starts to become clogged, others use more mechanical approaches.

Filtration becomes more difficult the finer the pore sizes being used. In the case of wine, the pore sizes employed are extremely small and "blinding" of the filter can be expected if too much suspended matter is applied to the filter. That leads me to the conclusion that pre-filtration using a coarse filter may do the trick with the Minijet. If not, 2-3 sets of the #2's ought to do the trick. I am just disappointed that this type of detail is not included in a manufacturer's advertizing. I also believe it extremely useful if this type of knowledge is imparted at sites such as this.

I will follow-up as I gain more experience with this tool.
*Edited by: Smokegrub *


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## Wade E (Jun 8, 2007)

As I do not have a minijet but was wondering if you could use it
in with a coarse filter in conjunction with a gravity filter with a
finer screen. Kind of getting it all done in 1 shot without switching
screens in the middle? is this feasible with the power of a mini jet or
even reversed to ease the strain on the minijet?


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## NorthernWinos (Jun 8, 2007)

Hope you get your Super-Kleer KC order and find that it works well on your wines....I am always amazed with that stuff...it can take sediment out of wines that you think are clear and make them brilliant....


I would love to have a filter to get a nice polish on some wines......maybe someday.


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## Wade E (Jun 8, 2007)

NW George has a gravity filter which is very cheap.


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## smokegrub (Jun 8, 2007)

After more research I have found this is somewhat typical of current advertising. I just hope it is accurate.

Buon Vino Mini-Jet Filter Pads

Approximately 6 inches square - between 1/8-1/4 inch thick 
3 pads per pack - adequate for a 5-6 gallon batch. 

#1 Coarse Pads - 8 microns 
Use to filter wines that are very cloudy 

#2 Sterile Pads - 2.5 microns 
Use on wines that clear with NO obvious suspended particulants 

#3 Super Sterile Pads - 0.5 - 1.0 microns
Use to polish an extremely clear wine.

Hopefully the two-step filtration will take care of my problem.

It won't be long until my peach and apple wines will be worth $30 a bottle, not because of quality but investment!

: )*Edited by: Smokegrub *


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## Wade E (Jun 8, 2007)

My pear wine and my apple were bears to clear until I added the
SuperKleer. This stuff is gold and i wont use any other clarifier
unless Im doing a kit and it comeswith something other as I dont want to void the warranty unless Im bumping up abv or making it sweeter.


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## Country Vines (Jun 8, 2007)

Well, Smokegrub, your analogy of the filtering process in the wastewater treatment process will certainly give me a different perspective the next time I use my MiniJet - guess I just never compared the two processes! On the other hand, I work for the government, so I have to mentally filter a lot of that wastewater byproduct on a daily basis







Just wanted to let you know that I have used my MiniJet on about 10 batches - and I just had one experience like yours. Of all the batches I've filtered, why did this one have to be a dark, red wine - and it made a huge mess all over me, the machine, my work area, my helpers, etc. I've done everything I could to analyze why it happened. Rechecked all of my connections, made sure the machine was level - everything I could think of. The only thing I could come up with was that (1) because this was a dark, red wine, it was really difficult to tell just how clear it was (or was not) in the carboy; and (2) I was out of #1 filters and this was the only time that I started with #2s.


I know that if that had happened on my first batch, I would be pretty upset, too. I'm just glad it wasn't my first batch so I would not be discouraged. When I first started this hobby, I bottled my wines thinking they were clear - they certainly looked like it. BUT, after they laid on the shelf in the "wine cellar" for a couple of months, I realized that when I went to use them, there would often be a very small fine layer of sediment in the bottle. Yuk. That has not happened with any of the wines I've filtered, so I will continue to filter - just because I have proven to myself that it is worth the effort.


Hope this helps


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## smurfe (Jun 8, 2007)

I have used a Mini-Jet on every batch of wine I have made after my first batch. From what I have read in your initial post it sure sounds like the pads were clogged. It is hard to see the materials at times particularly for a white or light colored wine. 


I noticed you had not used any fining agents prior to filtering and you used a #2 pad. The suspended solids in the wine more than likely are you culprit creating the pectic haze. Apple wines are notorious for this. Filtering alone will not clear the wine. You need a fining agent to clear the solids before you filter. It the liquid was spurting out the edges of the filter lads, I am sure your pads plugged up. It has happened to me many times. I always have an extra set of pads available when I filter. 


Filtering is not a process to clear a cloudy wine. You state that if the wine is clear, why filter. This is an on going debate. What filtering does essentially is to clear the solid particulates that are still suspended in a seemingly clear wine. Your wine may look crystal clear but after bottling, you may find sediment in your bottles. Filtering polishes the wine so you won't have that sediment. It is basically just a polishing process. 


Think of it like when you wash your car. It sure looks good when your done but looks even better if you wax and buff the finish. If you wax the car without washing it you still have the solids that scratch the finish causing the haze to the finish just as the solids cloud your wine. Use your fining agents, let it clear, rack it and then use the Mini-Jet to filter out the remaining materials that are hard to see with the naked eye. 


I do think you have a good plan to filter with a course pad and then a medium pad, particularly those apple wines. If you haven't fined the wine, you are probably going to be disappointed using those #3 pads unless you have racked the wine numerous times over a year and have absolutely no sediment in the bottom of the carboy.


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## chevyguy65 (Jun 9, 2007)

We have used the gravity filter twice and it worked perfectly! The wine started very clear and ended up very nicely"polished" see my previous post on the filter.
The time it took the complete the filtering was reasonable (about 10 mins for 3 gals) and the filter was slowing down at the end even with very clear wine to begin with. There is more suspended in the wine than you think.


Look at the recipes for making fruit wine they usally say to rack every couple months until clear. Ive never made a fresh fruit kit yet but i believe that process alone could take6 months or longer to clear your wine.


Ive found that George is VERY easy to work with on correcting problems with a product.


Be patient and let the wine do its thing.


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## smokegrub (Jun 9, 2007)

The apple wine is almost a year old and is still cloudy. It has been fined with bentonite and, later, sparkalloid. The peach isn't that old--it is getting close to 6 months.

I didn't purchase the Minijet from George that was what his offer so extraordinary.

As I said earlier, I plan to try the #1 filter and see how that works.

Thanks for the feedback.*Edited by: Smokegrub *


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## smurfe (Jun 9, 2007)

You might try some Pectic Enzyme to help clear them up


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## smokegrub (Jun 9, 2007)

Smurfe, that's a great idea, but I did that in the recipe and then I added more about 2 months ago.*Edited by: Smokegrub *


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## PeterZ (Jun 11, 2007)

Smoke,

Which POTW? The biggest I ever ran polymer trials at was DC, back in 1984. I also competed in San Antonio, TX and Memphis, TN, both pretty big. If I had landed DC I could have bought a mansion on my share of the profits for cash.


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## smokegrub (Jun 11, 2007)

The Hampton Roads Sanitation District in southeastern Virginia. We served approximately 1.5 million in 17 political jurisdictions covering 3700 square miles. Before that I managed the Water Quality Department for 20 years. That included a very large lab, an industrial waste division and the technical services division (research, special studies, permit negotiations and reporting). And before that I was a biologist with the DEQ.

As someone experienced with polymers you are no doubt our settling expert. That is an area where I am in definite need of help!

My career was fun and rewarding but not nearly as much fun and rewarding as making wine!

I look forward to continuing to learn you and the others who frequent this site.


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## smokegrub (Jun 12, 2007)

The peach had cleared enough that I tried the #2 filter this AM. It worked! Now I will let it rest for 24 hours or so and bottle. I will probably glare at every glass of this stuff as I drink it! The acid test for the filter will occur next week when I tackle the apple with the #1 filter.


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## Angell Wine (Jun 13, 2007)

Fruit wines are harder to filter than Kits. Just more invisible junk in the wine than you think. Start with the #1 or course pad first , if you are planing on doing 2 or more batch's filter all the batch's with the #1 then follow up with the #2. Also put a 1 gallon zip lock bag over the filters so when you get that unexpected spray, it want go everywhere. Wisdom comes fromexperience and experience comes from flooding the kitchen floor.


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## smokegrub (Jun 13, 2007)

: )

Sounds like great advice. The peach finally cleared and I filtered it wiith a #2 yesterday. Today it's in the bottle! I may glare at every glass! Now, I will take on an apple that I haven't been able to clear.

Thanks for the feedback.


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## Wade E (Jun 13, 2007)

Did you use the SuperKleer to clear it and how long if so did it take for that to work?


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## smokegrub (Jun 13, 2007)

No, I actually used Sparkalloid. I now have 3 packets of the Superkleer on hand so I will try it on the apple when we get to the mountains this Sunday. If it will clesar the apple, it will clear anything.

By the way, we had a bottle of the peach this evening. It wasn't bad at all. It was made with Welch's Peach Grape and backsweetened with same, some sugar and flavored with Carlson's peach flavoring. It is now headed to the cellar for aging a few months in the bottle.


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## PeterZ (Jun 14, 2007)

I don't know what the problem is with the apple. When I was in HS in MA I worked in a cider mill. We cider makers would take a gallon and put it in the closet, and drink it the next weekend. No pitching yeast, no degassing, no clarification. Seemed OK to us.


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## smokegrub (Jun 15, 2007)

Been there and done that also. : )


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## smokegrub (Jun 18, 2007)

The wine had cleared! It has at least an inch and a half of light, fluffy looking lees. I will rack it again. The solution to my wine clearing issues--buy a Minijet and then you will not need it any more!


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