# MLF Nutrient



## PCharles (Sep 23, 2011)

Good morning everybody, 

I just ordered MLF to add after press of my cab sauv. I've been reading that nutrient is recommended for MLF. I've not heard much discussion of this. My local supply shop that sells the MLF has not ordered MLF nutrient before. Lallemand has a product ACTI ML. I've read generic yeast nutrient can be used, but it must not contain DAP. 

Your thoughts?

Thanks friends,
Paul


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## robie (Sep 23, 2011)

Paul,

Here's the long answer. 
A nice manual on MLF that should answer all your questions.

http://www.morebeer.com/public/pdf/wmlfinfo.pdf

I'm not that up on MLF, so this is the best I can do for now.


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## PCharles (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks Robie,

That's the same source (from their Red Wine Guide) that I was using. This covers it in a more focused way. 

The reason I asked the question is that a very successful wine maker I know does not use it. I asked him about it and apparently they've never added it. I gather the biggest fear is that you would have incomplete MLF that would ferment after bottling. 

I have some MLF nutrient on order.

Thanks,

Paul


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## robie (Sep 23, 2011)

PCharles said:


> Thanks Robie,
> 
> That's the same source (from their Red Wine Guide) that I was using. This covers it in a more focused way.
> 
> ...



From what I understood from the manual. The ML bacteria do not utilize the DAP, but it doesn't mention it hurts them, either. The problem is that if DAP is still around after MLF, it can feed other bad guys in your wine. Also, anything accumulating at the bottom of the carboy tends to bury the bacteria. Heavy DAP deposits in the bottom could do that.

Paul, did you also order the test kit for MLF completion? You will need it.


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## PCharles (Sep 23, 2011)

*Will Do*

Robie,

I will get the kit later, but understand the crap shoot of not confirming the completion of MLF. 

I work in a lab for a profession and used to do lots of thin layer chromatography. I'm looking forward to giving it a try.

Off to work! See ya.

Paul


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## buddy (Sep 23, 2011)

robie said:


> Paul,
> 
> Here's the long answer.
> A nice manual on MLF that should answer all your questions.
> ...



Good article but there may be an error on page 6, it states:
"Keep the wine temperatures at around 77º F (20ºC) until the fermentation is
complete."
The given temperature of 77F doesn't line up with the previous temperature range stated earlier in the article.
Also 20C doesn't convert to 77F. 20C is actually 68F.


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## robie (Sep 23, 2011)

Good catch!


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## PCharles (Sep 24, 2011)

*It's 5:38 AM*

Oh man, one of our 3rd shift chaps called in and I had to work till 4AM. Sitting here enjoying some red wine... ups, I just found an email from my vineyard friend... due to the rain, grape picking has been moved to Saturday!!! Yikes, I'd better get some sleep.. 2.5 hrs at best. He is bringing in the rest of his Cab sauv and Cab franc. I have to be there.... 

The shop that a use for most winemaking supplies can't get the ML nutrient. I guess I'll buy direct from more flavor.

http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/15489//ACTI-ML_5g

Later friends. Hope to have some pics of the pickin.

Night and good morning.

Paul


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## Tom (Sep 24, 2011)

FYI

When I do MLF I do not add anything. Keep in ming after wine has gone dry DO NOT add meta before mlf. Never add sorbate to any wine that has gone thru MLF.


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## PCharles (Sep 29, 2011)

Earlier this week I optined serveral vial sof White Labs ML culture. There weren't any significant instuctions so I checked out White Labs web site. I was surprised to see that they recommend adding the ML culture before pressing, when brix is about 5. They also indicated that no nutrient was required. I've not seen any direction as to weather one should continue punch down for the day or two before I do press. My thinking is I will continue to punch down, but gently. 

Please do add to the discussion if you have had experience with this type of product/procedure.

Paul

http://www.whitelabs.com/wine/malolactic.html


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## Jenks829 (Sep 29, 2011)

PCharles said:


> Good morning everybody,
> 
> I just ordered MLF to add after press of my cab sauv. I've been reading that nutrient is recommended for MLF. I've not heard much discussion of this. My local supply shop that sells the MLF has not ordered MLF nutrient before. Lallemand has a product ACTI ML. I've read generic yeast nutrient can be used, but it must not contain DAP.
> 
> ...



Hello Paul,

I would not add the MLB nutient at the start of MLF. When you first add the bacteria, you want it to start to work on the malolactic acid; essentially, you want almost a nutrient dessert. There will be some nutrient for the MLB in the sediment anyway. If you were to add the nutrient at the start, you run the risk of the bacteria consuming the nutrient as opposed the the ML acid.

Do you have the means to measure if MLF has run to completion? I use a chromatography kit that I bought from the local homebrew shop. It also has the capability to test for TA, Citric, Malo and Lactic.

In my particular case, I added the MLB in late November; by mid January, the MLF had not yet completed so I added the nutrient then. When I tested again, MLF was done in 4 of the 6 carboys and even the two that still showed some Malolactic acid, the reading was faint. To be on the safe side I added Lysozyme powder as a MLF stabilizer to help protect against spontaneous MLF in the bottle.

Hope this helps

Jenks


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## robie (Sep 29, 2011)

The time to add the MLF nutrient can vary, depending on the nutrient. Some say to add it in a starter and add both the bacteria and the nutrient together into the wine. Some say to never do this.

I would suggest you read up on the bacteria and particular nutrient you are going to use.

Some wine makers don't even use a nutrient. They are not absolutely necessary, but are great insurance should there be a lack of nutrients in the wine.

For malo test kit, there is the chromatography test kit and the Acuvin Malo test kit. Winemaker's Toy Store sells the Acuvin malo test kit. Take a look at both and decide which one best suites you. You will definitely need a test kit to determine when malo is completed, because you will want to add SO2 the same day it is complete; no guessing on this one.


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## PCharles (Sep 30, 2011)

*I agree*

Hi Robie, 

Agian, you've got some great advise. I feel confident checking the White Labs web site, I am following one a good rule, "when all else fails, follow the instructions." I added the ML as instructed, with a brix @ or < 5. I'll make sure to have a MLF test kit on hand. 

Now I've seen ML infused by two totally different methods.

Back to my orinial question regarding ML nutrient, I found, for the method I'm using (White Labs ML), I do not need to add nutrient, in agreement with White Labs procedure. I'm glad... my local wine supply shop was unable to get any.

Thanks for the feedback.

Paul


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