# Homebrewer who is interested in wine



## RichBrewer (Oct 27, 2006)

Hey there.
I'm a long time home beer brewer who has been kicking around the idea of making wine for quite some time. I would like some advice on how to proceed. I would think that I've got most of the equipment to make wine but maybe there are some specialty things I don't have. What are the basic things needed to get started?
Also, can anyone recommend a good wine kit for my first attempt?
Thanks!


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## kc_lupo (Oct 27, 2006)

Your first wine that would be easy to make is 100% juice concentrate. Check out your local grocery store's froze juice section. Pick any juice that is 100% juice and has no preservatives. The great part is that you can get your feet wet in wine making without a wine press (which costs around $300.00 for a decent one). I use old orchard juices


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## conboss (Oct 28, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> Hey there.
> I'm a long time home beer brewer who has been kicking around the idea of making wine for quite some time. I would like some advice on how to proceed. I would think that I've got most of the equipment to make wine but maybe there are some specialty things I don't have. What are the basic things needed to get started?
> Also, can anyone recommend a good wine kit for my first attempt?
> Thanks!



I think that a kit wine is the best way to start you get step-by-step instructions. You already have the skills you just need to learn a new procedure.
Winexpert is a good kit wine, I've done 3 and had good results.

Greg


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## RichBrewer (Oct 30, 2006)

conboss said:


> I think that a kit wine is the best way to start you get step-by-step instructions. You already have the skills you just need to learn a new procedure.
> Winexpert is a good kit wine, I've done 3 and had good results.
> 
> Greg



Thanks!
I think I will hint around and see if I can get a kit for Christmas.


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## RichBrewer (Oct 30, 2006)

kc_lupo said:


> Your first wine that would be easy to make is 100% juice concentrate. Check out your local grocery store's froze juice section. Pick any juice that is 100% juice and has no preservatives. The great part is that you can get your feet wet in wine making without a wine press (which costs around $300.00 for a decent one). I use old orchard juices



I've actually thought about that but to me it seemed like the boons farm approach. Do those juices actually make decent wine or cider?


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## smurfe (Nov 15, 2006)

Wine Expert makes great kits. I have made around 30 of them with out a failure or disappointment. Go for the 15 liter kits if possible. makes a much better wine. Just remember though that most beer equipment like carboys are 5 gallon and wine kits make 6 gallons meaning a different size carboy is needed. Also, it is not recommended to use a beer fermenter to ferment wine or vice versa as the aromas of each leech into the plastic and can be transfered back and forth.

Smurfe


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## Daves Homebrewing Supplie (Nov 16, 2006)

A kit is usually the best way to start. You should probably pick a style of wine that you already know you like the first time. Also, don't use the same plastic bucket for beer and wine, the wine may pick up any beer aromas in the plastic. Glass can be used for both.

Another good thing about kits is they come with all the additives you need.

Hope this helps


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## RichBrewer (Dec 16, 2006)

I've actually have 6 1/2 gallon glass carboys so I should be good to go. As a matter of fact, If I get a wine kit like I have been hinting about for Christmas I might go buy another carboy.
Thanks for the info!


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## Luc (Dec 17, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> I've actually have 6 1/2 gallon glass carboys so I should be good to go. As a matter of fact, If I get a wine kit like I have been hinting about for Christmas I might go buy another carboy.
> Thanks for the info!



You certainly have the right attitude for a winemaker: patience  
You started this thread in october and now it is december , and you still have not started fermenting anything that is what I call patience and that is what I winemaker needs most.  

Peronally I stick to what someone once mentioned on another forum:
There is nothing so depressing as an empty carboy. 

Luc


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## RichBrewer (Dec 20, 2006)

Luc said:


> You certainly have the right attitude for a winemaker: patience
> You started this thread in october and now it is december , and you still have not started fermenting anything that is what I call patience and that is what I winemaker needs most.
> 
> Peronally I stick to what someone once mentioned on another forum:
> ...


I've done a couple batches of beer so my fermemters have been busy. 

I would have started the wine sooner except those kits are expensive. I've got a pretty good idea that I'm getting one though. I was talking about one of the guys at the home brew shop and my wife knew who I was talking about. She supposedly has never been there before. 
Keeps fingers crossed.


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## RichBrewer (Dec 26, 2006)

Whoo Hoo! I got my kit for Christmas. It's a Winexpert Selection Estate Series White Zinfandel. 
Now I have some questions.

The directions say I need a 30 Liters/ 8 gallon fermenter. When I talked to the guy at the home brew shop he said I didn't need a special fermenter. I've got a 6 1/2 gallon carboy. Is this big enough or am I going to need to get a bigger primary?

The directions also say I need a 6 gallon carboy for the clarification stage and I need to fill the carboy with water or a similar wine to within 2" of the bung. Is this normal?

Everyone told me that wine was easier than beer but the directions make me think that it is involved and I don't have all the equipment I need.
Any comments would be appreciated.!


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## cpfan (Dec 27, 2006)

RichBrewer:

Congratulations...should be a very good blush wine.

I prefer using a 46 litre (12 US gallon) primary. A smaller primary would be OK but I would recommend against using a carboy.

The instructions are definitely normal, even though many do not follow the topping up unless planning to age in carboy for a length of time.

What is easier wine or beer? Have you been making beer from scratch (boiling, cooling, etc?)? If so, then wine is easier. Have you made beer from a wort kit (Brewhouse, Brewers Spring, Barons, ...)? Then beer is much easier. Otherwise it's point of view.

You might wish to visit winepress.us. There is a first timer's thread 'sticky'd' in the Kit Wines Discussion Forum.

Steve


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## RichBrewer (Dec 27, 2006)

cpfan said:


> A smaller primary would be OK but I would recommend against using a carboy.


Why is that? Will I be OK if I get a large plastic bucket for the primary?



cpfan said:


> The instructions are definitely normal, even though many do not follow the topping up unless planning to age in carboy for a length of time.


How long can I age if I don't top off? Can I purge the head space with CO2?



cpfan said:


> What is easier wine or beer? Have you been making beer from scratch (boiling, cooling, etc?)? If so, then wine is easier. Have you made beer from a wort kit (Brewhouse, Brewers Spring, Barons, ...)? Then beer is much easier. Otherwise it's point of view.


From where I am beer is harder on the first day. I 'm an all grain brewer so it takes me about 5 or more hours to get the wort into the fermenter. There seems to be more to do with wine after primary fermentation. It doesn't seem too complicated just more steps. I can't wait to get started!


cpfan said:


> You might wish to visit winepress.us. There is a first timer's thread 'sticky'd' in the Kit Wines Discussion Forum..



Thanks! I'll check it out and thank you for the fast friendly reply.
Cheers,
Rich


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## smurfe (Dec 27, 2006)

With that kit you could probably get by with the 6.5 gallon bucket but you will be cutting it close. I have made that kit many times and it is low foaming during fermentation. In regards to the carboy and injecting CO2, I know nothing about that. 

Basically you top up when the SG gets to a certain point per kit instructions. First you stabilize and degass. After you have stabilized you have topped fermentation and there will be no production of CO2 to blanket the wine from oxidation. You drive off the CO2 by degassing to eliminate the fizziness in the wine and drive of the odors the wine will hold from the CO2. 

As I said, I know nothing about injecting CO2 into the carboy but it still seems like it is defeating the purpose of degassing the wine. I have heard wine makers say they do it though. If you only have a 6.5 gallon carboy you could add up to one liter of water and then finishing topping up with a cheap commercial White Zin but that will add up in cost. 

I can still only recommend that if you feel you will enjoy making wine to invest in the proper equipment. It is not recommended to ferment wine in the same primary beer is fermented in. Is your 6.5 gallon carboy a primary fermentation device or a secondary device? If you do not have a plastic fermenter bucket, you really should get one. They are fairly cheap and a 6 gallon carboy is fairly cheap. 

If you have to rack a kit and only have one carboy you can rack to the primary bucket, clean the carboy and rack back to the carboy. I do this all the time when I am short on carboys. BTW, if you like White Zin, you picked a fantastic kit. This wine will be a darker color than the average commercial White Zin and much more flavorful. 

Smurfe


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## RichBrewer (Dec 27, 2006)

smurfe,
I wasn't thinking about injecting the wine with CO2 just purging the head space. I figure this will drive out any oxygen and keep a layer of CO2 over the wine to protect it.
I'm thinking about making due with what I have now and see how I like wine making. Someone suggested to me that I can place sanitized marbles in the carboy to take up space. I might give that a try.
I'm going to the store this morning to see what they have.

Oh-by the way, those wines are beautiful! Wow!


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## Todd (Dec 27, 2006)

Smure that does look good. 

Does anyone know how much fluid the 6 gallon carboy holds? My 5 gallon carboys actually hold about 5 gallons and 1.25 quarts. Is it the same with the 6 gallon?


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## RichBrewer (Dec 27, 2006)

I really like the clear bottle. It shows off your wine. Is there any disadvantage to clear. I'm used to beer where everything has to be in brown bottles to keep it from getting skunky.


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## RichBrewer (Dec 27, 2006)

OK. It's in a 6 1/2 gallon carboy. I'm going to take my chances. The SG is 1.090. Is this about right for a WZ?
The only problem I had was I didn't shake it up enough at first and the gravity was low (1.068). After I Really shook it I got 1.090.

That was very easy!


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## cpfan (Dec 27, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> I really like the clear bottle. It shows off your wine. Is there any disadvantage to clear. I'm used to beer where everything has to be in brown bottles to keep it from getting skunky.



All beer & wine should be stored in the DARK. I don't know if brown beer bottles are actually dark enough. Since I store wine & beer in closed storage (often just boxes), the colour of the glass dosn't matter.

Steve


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## smurfe (Dec 28, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> OK. It's in a 6 1/2 gallon carboy. I'm going to take my chances. The SG is 1.090. Is this about right for a WZ?
> The only problem I had was I didn't shake it up enough at first and the gravity was low (1.068). After I Really shook it I got 1.090.
> 
> That was very easy!



The SG of 1.090 is on the money. As you noticed, you had a lower SG at first. You really need to stir the juice and water to mix it all up. You can not merely dump in the water and call it good. The concentrate is much more viscous and will not blend well with the water without a little help.

In regards to the sanitized marbles, that is the route I would go and I totally forgot to mention that in a previous post. That is a common tool many of my wine making acquaintances use. If purging the head space with CO2 works and will not mix with the wine, I say go for it. I have heard of it done but as I said, it goes against everything I have been taught. I have always been taught to get rid of all of the CO2 at the appropriate time. It will leave an off flavor in the wine. 

I have never used a carboy for a primary with a kit wine. I have a couple times with a Mead but will never do that again due to all of the foaming. I am sure you will like this wine if you follow the directions. The White Zin in my picture is the particular kit you are making and one of the favorites I have made. I don't care for it as I like very dry wines but everyone else raves about it. I received a true compliment today from a local commercial vineyard/winery owner that he likes my White Zin as well as anything he makes in his own winery. Keep us posted on the progress and feel free to ask all the questions you need. We are here to help.

Smurfe


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## smurfe (Dec 28, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> I really like the clear bottle. It shows off your wine. Is there any disadvantage to clear. I'm used to beer where everything has to be in brown bottles to keep it from getting skunky.



It depends on the wine type as to the color of bottle I use. I try to bottle the same as the commercial wines. On the average, most all of the whites I make go in a clear bottle and reds in the darkest bottle I can get. I have an excess of olive Burgundy bottles so I have bottles a few batches of whites in those as well as a couple reds. 

I am out of Olive Bordeaux bottles and have 2 reds ready to bottle. I am going to bottle one batch in the Burgundy bottles (a Super Tuscan Crushendo) and have to break down and buy a couple cases of olive Bordeaux bottles for a Woodbridge Cabernet Sauvignon. I am almost out of clear Bordeaux bottles and need to collect a bunch of those as I need to make a couple kits of the White Zin. 

Smurfe


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## RichBrewer (Dec 28, 2006)

smurfe said:


> It depends on the wine type as to the color of bottle I use. I try to bottle the same as the commercial wines. On the average, most all of the whites I make go in a clear bottle and reds in the darkest bottle I can get. I have an excess of olive Burgundy bottles so I have bottles a few batches of whites in those as well as a couple reds.
> 
> I am out of Olive Bordeaux bottles and have 2 reds ready to bottle. I am going to bottle one batch in the Burgundy bottles (a Super Tuscan Crushendo) and have to break down and buy a couple cases of olive Bordeaux bottles for a Woodbridge Cabernet Sauvignon. I am almost out of clear Bordeaux bottles and need to collect a bunch of those as I need to make a couple kits of the White Zin.
> 
> Smurfe



Wow! and I thought I had it rough because I need 30 bottles.


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## RichBrewer (Dec 28, 2006)

I've actually thought of a couple more questions.
My fermenter is in the laundry room that gets a lot of light. Does excessive light harm wine? I've actually covered the carboy with a black t-shirt so it is protected if needed.
The instructions say to sanitize the hydrometer and flask. Is this done so the must can be poured back into the fermenter? I didn't do this because my flask is extremely grungy in the bottom. I just threw the must down the drain. I guess this could add up over time if I have to check the gravity a lot.
Do I need to get a new flask and a wine thief?


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## smurfe (Dec 28, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> I've actually thought of a couple more questions.
> My fermenter is in the laundry room that gets a lot of light. Does excessive light harm wine? I've actually covered the carboy with a black t-shirt so it is protected if needed.
> The instructions say to sanitize the hydrometer and flask. Is this done so the must can be poured back into the fermenter? I didn't do this because my flask is extremely grungy in the bottom. I just threw the must down the drain. I guess this could add up over time if I have to check the gravity a lot.
> Do I need to get a new flask and a wine thief?



If your flask is grungy, you did the right thing. You are correct as well about sanitizing so you can add the sample back to the carboy. I have Fermtech Wine Thief / Test Jar Combo that works well. You just sanitize it and dip it into the carboy. There is a one way valve in the bottom that allows wine to enter. When you lift it out the valve closes. After you obtain your reading you place the bottom tip of the device back into the carboy and place the trigger against the side of the carboy and your sample goes back into the carboy.

You are doing the right thing covering the carboys with a t-shirt to keep light of of the wine. This is what I do. Constant exposure to the light will discolor the wine. Another thing you want to watch is the fluctuating temperatures of a laundry room. Constant temp swings are hard on wine as well. My laundry room keeps pretty cool and consistent in temp in the winter months but in the summer is too warm for me to ferment or store wine.

Smurfe


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## cpfan (Dec 28, 2006)

Also the vibrations of the washer & dryer may cause problems with clearing.

I am a BIG FAN of Fermtech's Thief and Auto Syphons. Can't live without 'em, and I run a Ferment on Premises.

Steve


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## RichBrewer (Dec 28, 2006)

Oh I need one of those! I could even use it for my home brew.
The laundry room has the warmest and most stable temp in the house. It stays at about 71 degrees.
I never thought about the vibrations. That could be an issue because the fermenter is on the floor. Can I put the wine in a cooler place in the house for clarification? I'm talking about 62 degrees.


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## smurfe (Dec 28, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> Oh I need one of those! I could even use it for my home brew.
> The laundry room has the warmest and most stable temp in the house. It stays at about 71 degrees.
> I never thought about the vibrations. That could be an issue because the fermenter is on the floor. Can I put the wine in a cooler place in the house for clarification? I'm talking about 62 degrees.



If your temps stay a constant 71 degrees even while running a dryer, it is fine as is. In my opinion, vibrations aren't a real issue during fermentation. It is a different story while resting in a bottle. The 62 degree temp is fine for clarification. It is a little cool for fermentation but would work. It will just take everything longer at that temp. If you do use this area I suggest when it is time to degass to move the carboy to a warmer temp and try to gradually bring the temp of the must up around 72-75 degrees. It will be much easier to drive off the CO2 at this temp. 

Smurfe


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## RichBrewer (Dec 28, 2006)

Man this sucker has been bubbling since yesterday evening, It is really going now and no trace of foam whatsoever. I think the 6 1/2 is going to work for this one.


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## cpfan (Dec 28, 2006)

Patience to our Brewer. Wine yeasts are slower than beer yeasts. I moved a wine to carboy today after 7 days. Still a nice layer of foam, and obvious bubbles. I think sg was .998 (could be wrong moved 5 wines & a beer today).

Steve


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## RichBrewer (Dec 28, 2006)

Here it is after 28 hours. It is bubbling hard. So far no foam at all.




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## cpfan (Dec 28, 2006)

Rich:

A 6.5 US gallon carboy and a 6.0 US gallon kit. Aren't you missing some liquid?

Steve


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## RichBrewer (Dec 29, 2006)

cpfan said:


> Rich:
> 
> A 6.5 US gallon carboy and a 6.0 US gallon kit. Aren't you missing some liquid?
> 
> Steve


My carboy is marked at 6 gallons. I did this by actually pouring 6 gallons of water into the carboy then marking it. The must was right at the mark when I added the top off water. I'm fairly confident that I have the correct amount of liquid. The OG was 1.090 and folks have told me that it is about right.


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## Todd (Dec 29, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> Here it is after 28 hours. It is bubbling hard. So far no foam at all.
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]



Looks great!


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## Todd (Dec 29, 2006)

Rich, 

Could you please update us on how much foam you get, I'd love to try a reisling or gwerterber (spelling big time) in my 6.5G bucket but I'm not sure how well it will fit with foam. I'm thinking it won't work since your carboy is actually over 6.5. 

Todd


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## Luc (Dec 29, 2006)

Looks great Rich.

Congratulations  

Luc


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## cpfan (Dec 29, 2006)

Todd, 6.5 US gallons is 24.5 litres, so it's a bit tight for a 23 litre kit. But with the large surface area of a pail you might be OK.

I prefer a 46 litre pail.

Steve


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## RichBrewer (Dec 29, 2006)

Todd said:


> Rich,
> 
> Could you please update us on how much foam you get, I'd love to try a Riesling or gwerterber (spelling big time) in my 6.5G bucket but I'm not sure how well it will fit with foam. I'm thinking it won't work since your carboy is actually over 6.5.
> 
> Todd



I have gotten zero foam from this kit. The surface of the must looks like it is boiling but no foam is being generated. I have a feeling, from what I've read, that this is the exception not the rule. I'm going to get a large plastic fermenter before I do another kit.
I'm a total newbie so I have no idea if the wines you mentioned will work in a 6 gallon fermenter. Good luck!


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## smurfe (Dec 30, 2006)

Todd said:


> Rich,
> 
> Could you please update us on how much foam you get, I'd love to try a reisling or gwerterber (spelling big time) in my 6.5G bucket but I'm not sure how well it will fit with foam. I'm thinking it won't work since your carboy is actually over 6.5.
> 
> Todd



Neither the Reisling or the Gewürztraminer foam much at all. Normally you see a lot of foaming from the big red wines. I would still recomend getting a 7.9 gallon fermentor. Although many do it, I still can not recomend using the same bucket to ferment beer and wine. You can transfer odors. 

I have 3 fermentors. Each smells distinctly of wine, even after sanitizing. Two have been used many time and one has only been used once but each has a distinct, sweet, juice odor to them. 

I have never brewed beer but I can only imagine the buckets will have odors as well. In winemaking, these potential odor transfers could really play an effect on the end aroma and flavor of your finished product.

Smurfe


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## RichBrewer (Dec 30, 2006)

smurfe said:


> I have never brewed beer but I can only imagine the buckets will have odors as well. In winemaking, these potential odor transfers could really play an effect on the end aroma and flavor of your finished product.
> 
> Smurfe



Plastic fermenters definitely take on the aroma of the beer. I haven't used mine in ten years and they still smell like beer. I don't think it would be a good idea at all to use plastic for both.

Rich


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## Luc (Dec 31, 2006)

RichBrewer said:


> Plastic fermenters definitely take on the aroma of the beer. I haven't used mine in ten years and they still smell like beer. I don't think it would be a good idea at all to use plastic for both.
> 
> Rich



Rich,

Look if you can find a friendly baker or so in the neighborhood, and talk to him.
Give him one or two bottles of your wine  

Now bakers will get their supplies of cream, baking materials etc in food grade buckets, and they will dump the buckets when empty.

This way I got myself and endless supply of 3 gallon fermentors.  

Luc


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## RichBrewer (Dec 31, 2006)

Luc said:


> Rich,
> 
> Look if you can find a friendly baker or so in the neighborhood, and talk to him.
> Give him one or two bottles of your wine
> ...



Now I like that idea. I would love to have some 3 gallon fermenters for smaller batches. I figure I can find out what I like with 1 or 2 gallons at a time then do 6 gallon batches.


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## Todd (Jan 4, 2007)

Any updates or new pictures? I'm extremely interested in how this is processing.


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## RichBrewer (Jan 4, 2007)

Todd said:


> Any updates or new pictures? I'm extremely interested in how this is processing.



I racked it to a secondary last night and snapped these photos. I took a small taste from the racking cane and it was surprisingly good. It is a bit sweet at 1.010 but is very clean. Almost no lees in the primary just a darker purple film. I noticed today that the secondary already has a layer of yeast in it.


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## RichBrewer (Feb 24, 2007)

*I bottled it today*

This is very good wine! I think it is ready to drink right now! I just finished off a large glass of it from the bottom of the carboy and oh my... it is fantastic!


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## Luc (Feb 25, 2007)

Congratulations Rich,

It turned out very well. 

Luc


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## rmck1 (Oct 2, 2007)

I've a question... Nearly eight months on... You got any left and if so how well has it aged?


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