# Mixing the sugar for backsweetening



## skyfire322 (Jan 19, 2018)

I'm about two weeks away from backsweetening (using plain table sugar). This seems like a silly question, but what do you find is the best way to mix it into the wine? Put the sugar in an empty carboy then rack? Spoon or degasser? Or dissolve it in wine and pour back it in (similar to when you rehydrate the yeast)?


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## cmason1957 (Jan 19, 2018)

I usually put the sugar into an empty carboy then rack onto it. When I have the sugar completely covered with wine, I pick up the carboy and give it a really good shake to mix the sugar in well. I do that again when the carboy is half full.


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## Julie (Jan 19, 2018)

I will take some wine and warm it up, dissolve the sugar in the warm wine and then add it back.


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## joeswine (Jan 19, 2018)

If your chemistry is correct simple syrup is the best way.


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## Johnd (Jan 19, 2018)

Don’t do a lot of it, but when I have backsweetened, dump sugar into the carboy (funnel recommended) and stir it up until dissolved, taste, repeat if necessary.


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## pillswoj (Jan 19, 2018)

I agree with Joe - Simple Syrup is what I do.


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## salcoco (Jan 19, 2018)

do a bench trial first with simple syrup. this is two cup sugar to one cup hot water, mix in a blender. let cool. get 100ml sample of wine. add 1/4 tsp in first this is equal to 1.25ml, two time 1/4 in second etc adding a 1/4 tsp per sample. select the best one. make a 500ml sample with the selected sugar syrup ration let stand for about a week. revisit to insure taste profile is as originally thought then calculate the required amount for a full batch then add with simple syrup again. make sure you sue k-meta and sorbate in the 500ml sample and in the finished wine to prevent refermetation.


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## joeswine (Jan 19, 2018)

Actually,2 to 1 is a good mix by the quarter. take a look at my simple syrup process,you need to desolve the sugar by bring it to a clear boil,then let it cool. By totally desovleing the sugar your assured of a good bond in solution using as much or as little as you want.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 19, 2018)

Agree with Simple Syrup (SS) using 2 parts Sugar to 1 part Hot/Boiling water. 
And bench trials are the best way to accurately determine how much. Start with one cup of wine and go slow. I normally start with about 1/4 oz of SS for a cup of wine. So far most times I end up with a very slightly sweet wine at most times around 1/2 oz SS per cup and 1.005 SG 

Remember that seem perfect now will become sweeter in another 6 months to a year, even with a wine aged 12 months already.

Also don't forget that you can add body and mouth-feel AND sweetness with food grade Glycerin. I would do the Glycerin first then do the SS additions. Don't try to get all the way there with Glycerin unless you are really wanting a pretty dry wine OR you also want you wine to provide a laxative effect as well.
By the way Glycerin has more calories than sugar but only 60% of the sweetness - so the use of it is primarily for body/mouth-feel.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 19, 2018)

A simple syrup solution has an important advantage, as I will explain. Let's talk sweetness. You often read here that people who backsweeten their wine find that they "overshoot," and the wine is too sweet. I believe what happens is that they add table sugar (aka sucrose), and taste the wine, and then stop when it tastes sweet enough. However, table sugar, which is a disaccharide, eventually separates into fructose and glucose molecules. Fructose is much sweeter than table sugar.
When you make simple syrup, you efficiently break up the sucrose into fructose and glucose. Thus, simple syrup is already as sweet as it will get, so your taste testing will be indicative of the final product. (Add a little lemon juice when making the simple syrup to facilitate breaking the sucrose up.)


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## Scooter68 (Jan 19, 2018)

Hey ! Thanks Sour_grapes - I DID not know that. 

I normally use a simple syrup because it's a lot easier to dissolve that sugar in hot water than even a warmed up wine. Also I know exactly how much sugar is going into that syrup and eventually my wine. Any dilution of my wine I consider minimal since at most I'm adding 7 1/2 oz of liquid (Syrup) to my wine.


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## stickman (Jan 20, 2018)

@sour_grapes good point, you definitely need some acid present during heating to get the sucrose to split into glucose and fructose at any reasonable rate.


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## skyfire322 (Jan 20, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> A simple syrup solution has an important advantage, as I will explain. Let's talk sweetness. You often read here that people who backsweeten their wine find that they "overshoot," and the wine is too sweet. I believe what happens is that they add table sugar (aka sucrose), and taste the wine, and then stop when it tastes sweet enough. However, table sugar, which is a disaccharide, eventually separates into fructose and glucose molecules. Fructose is much sweeter than table sugar.



Thanks for that! It sounds like you can get much more control of sweetness with that.


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## FTC Wines (Jan 20, 2018)

Am I the only one that uses a 4 to 1 ratio for simple sugar. Used to use 2-1, but figured it diluted the wine more. So we slow boil 4-1 mix with a splash of lemon juice. Roy


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## sour_grapes (Jan 20, 2018)

FTC Wines said:


> Am I the only one that uses a 4 to 1 ratio for simple sugar. Used to use 2-1, but figured it diluted the wine more. So we slow boil 4-1 mix with a splash of lemon juice. Roy



I didn't know you could get that much in! Good to know. Thanks, Roy!


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## FTC Wines (Jan 20, 2018)

It's thick, but it works. Roy


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## skyfire322 (Feb 6, 2018)

So I just tasted the wine again. When I first tasted it a month into bulk-aging, I didn't really like the flavor. Since then, its become a bit more full-bodied and right where I like my Riesling (though a bit acidic) so I don't think I'll backsweeten. 

That being said, I didn't add the sorbate during stabilization because I was going to add it during backsweetening (it has not re-fermented or spoiled), so I'm curious if that will have an affect on the wine and if I should add it now (I'm about a month or so away from bottling).


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## Julie (Feb 6, 2018)

If you are not going to backsweeten you don't need to add the sorbate. I would suggest that you take a hydrometer reading and take a ph reading and record those


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## BigH (Mar 11, 2018)

I was going to type what essentially sour_grapes already said about making a syrup with a touch of lemon juice (or citric acid) to break apart that chemical bond. The term is making "invert sugar". Here is video that explains it a bit more



H


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## Scooter68 (Mar 12, 2018)

The video should be put under *Wine Making Tutorials, Calculators, Wine Logs & Yeast Charts*

Excellent info and using citric acid seems to be the wise way since most of us have it already in our chemicals collection.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 12, 2018)

Very cool. They say 1:1 simple sugar would keep for 1 month. And 2:1 would keep for 6 months refrigerated. I’d imagine the shelf life of 4:1 inverted would keep for a very long time. 
Im feeling an inverted brown syrup tweak for Christmas cookies this year!


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## Scooter68 (Mar 12, 2018)

The problem with a syrup of greater than 2-1 concentration is that measuring becomes very hard to do. Thick as honey at least plus the time to make. By the way if you leave your simple syrup in the fridge too long it will become that old "Rock Candy" Until you re-heat it. Got that surprise in my first year of wine making.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 12, 2018)

I’ve been making and using syrup a lot lately. I guess if I were to make a few 1qt mason jars of a 4:1 equivalent id have to make the 1st one just 4cps sugar and 1 cp water and measure out 25% of the total. Then label the rest of the jars 1cup=x mL. 
I dont refrigerate my syrup until it’s been opened. For unopened jars (the 2 part lid that vacuum seals as it cools) I keep at room temp. I’ve got 1 qt left from a batch made a yr ago.


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## skyfire322 (Mar 12, 2018)

BigH said:


> I was going to type what essentially sour_grapes already said about making a syrup with a touch of lemon juice (or citric acid) to break apart that chemical bond. The term is making "invert sugar". Here is video that explains it a bit more
> 
> 
> 
> H



This is actually a huge help! I wasn't planning on backsweetening, but right now my big issue is that the TA is on point (7.5) but the pH is a bit low (2.8) so I think this might be the way to go.


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## CUZN_J (May 13, 2018)

FTC Wines said:


> Am I the only one that uses a 4 to 1 ratio for simple sugar. Used to use 2-1, but figured it diluted the wine more. So we slow boil 4-1 mix with a splash of lemon juice. Roy


NO I use the 4/1 ratio also, it takes a little longer stirring the boil, but I find it is easier to judge amount needed,


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## Scooter68 (May 13, 2018)

Never had a wine dilution problem but then I plan for that back-sweetening at the beginning. Time to prep that heavy a concentrate is more than I want to invest at this point. Sounds like a way to go for larger batches though. I'd have a tough time measuring small enough quantities for bench trials. Normally I end up with 1/4 oz for 1 cup of wine in bench trials.


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## iridium (May 14, 2018)

Question on timing. Is there a time limit between adding sorbate and back sweetening? I added sorbet about a month ago but life happened and I didn’t get to back sweeten.


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## Scooter68 (May 14, 2018)

Unlikely that you will have any problem. Some folks state that they add the sorbate early but I just remember reading that the effectiveness of sorbate tails off after "a while." I think a month delay isn't going to be any sort of problem. I try to do the final sorbate and k-Meta treatment about a week ahead to let them both be at full effectiveness when I back-sweeten. 

*Wouldn't worry about it at all.

*
_(Unless your really added 'sorbet' instead. -  sorry I just couldn't resist. I didn't even notice the spelling until I did a final read before posting.)_


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## iridium (May 14, 2018)

Yes I have heard you have to very careful when adding sorbet[emoji12]


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## Julie (May 16, 2018)

I have added sorbate and backsweeten all in the same day and never had any issues.


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