# Cold Stablization



## Flame145 (Dec 28, 2010)

I just started Cold Stablization 2 days ago. I put my barrel outside and its been a steady 25 - 30 degrees. I wanted to drop some of the acidity out. Last time I checked I was at 7.8 TA. Well anyway how long should I do Cold Stablization for ??? 2 weeks, 3 weeks. Ohh ya almost forgot, the wine is made from 90% Sangiovese grapes and 10 % zifindel grapes. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


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## Runningwolf (Dec 28, 2010)

I like to do carboys for two weeks at 25-28*. I know you don't want toopen you barrel up probably but how many days is it going to take just to get all of the juice down to temp?


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## winemaker_3352 (Dec 29, 2010)

I left mine in CS for 4 weeks.


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## Flame145 (Dec 29, 2010)

Runningwolf said:


> I like to do carboys for two weeks at 25-28*. I know you don't want toopen you barrel up probably but how many days is it going to take just to get all of the juice down to temp?



This is my first time doing cold stabilization, so i apologize if this is a stupid question. What do you mean by opening the barrel and letting it come to temperature ?? 
My plan was to keep outside for 3 to 4 weeks, bring back in garage which stays at 60˚ , then rack. Continue with bulk aging after racking.
Its been roughly 25˚ to 30˚ outside steady.


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## Fuegofan (Jan 21, 2011)

I put my carboy in the garage for two weeks, where it hung out at 32 degrees +- 2. I don't know if it's the 2 or 3 months it spent at 58 in the basement first, or that two weeks, or both, but the acidity is soooooooo much better now. I'm working with 100% Frontenac grapes, and after the first racking it was still really sour--puckery really. Now it's a nice, bright wine. After racking it off the lees, I'm leaving it in the basement until May or June, when I'll bottle.


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## Wade E (Jan 21, 2011)

Was it lees or crunchy wine diamonds?


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## Fuegofan (Jan 21, 2011)

You know, my friend said he could see the tartaric acid. I never saw anything that looked like salt crystals or any other kind of crystal. We also had a 1.5 L bottle that was just hanging out in the basement (same stuff as in the 5 gal carboy) and when I held it up to the light, it was all sparkly. What do these wine diamonds look like? This is my first winemakeing experience.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 21, 2011)

Today when I cleaned them out of my carboys after racking they were compacted on the bottom of the carboy and came out in large crispy flakes. In your bottles the crystals from very small to a small potato chip size. Here is an example of crystals poured into a glass.


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## djrockinsteve (Jan 21, 2011)

Add water and see if they inflate into a dinosaur


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## djrockinsteve (Jan 21, 2011)

Flame145 said:


> I just started Cold Stablization 2 days ago. I put my barrel outside and its been a steady 25 - 30 degrees. I wanted to drop some of the acidity out. Last time I checked I was at 7.8 TA. Well anyway how long should I do Cold Stablization for ??? 2 weeks, 3 weeks. Ohh ya almost forgot, the wine is made from 90% Sangiovese grapes and 10 % zifindel grapes. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks



It's important first of all to get an acurate reading for the acid test. At that cold watch it carefully especially if you have an airlock on it with water.

Did these grapes get picked early or were they from an area having a high acid content in the dirt?


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## ibglowin (Jan 21, 2011)

Wine Diamonds........

Only available in PA!


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## ffemt128 (Jan 22, 2011)

I've been dropping crystals in my whates the past 1 1/2 months. Temps in my area get into the 40's at night and up to low 50's when the furnace is on and we are home. I was considering placing these outside my basement door in the enclosed stairwell to see if anything else is going to drop out. I may place my Muscadine out there also. Need to let it warm up a bit, I don't think 3 degrees is CS temps.


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## Wade E (Jan 22, 2011)

Is it colder right by the door?


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## ffemt128 (Jan 22, 2011)

Wade E said:


> Is it colder right by the door?



I'm sure it is, very drafty sandstone foundation. I could probably set un a milk crate by the door for a couple weeks. I'll have to put a thermometer overthere this afternoon and clear a walkway. I have cases of empty bottles stacked in the way now.


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## Lurker (Jan 22, 2011)

When I cold stabilize, I use a small apartment size fridge for gallons. I set it to 30 degrees and leave for 1 month, then rack before it warms up. There are always crystals in the bottom.


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## surlees (Jan 22, 2011)

CS can be accomplished inexpensively by keeping it in the cold either outside, in a cold basement, or cold garage, but the absolutely best way is to use a freezer/refrigerator set at ~28F and leave it in at least 2 weeks. The reason most CS is done is to avoid wine diamonds. The typical scenario is someone who has been given or (as in the case of commercial wines) purchased a wine and placed it in a refrigerator for several weeks. Unless or until you can duplicate the refrigerator environment for this amount of time you're still at risk for a few wine diamonds.

Fred


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## countrygirl (Jan 22, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> Today when I cleaned them out of my carboys after racking they were compacted on the bottom of the carboy and came out in large crispy flakes. In your bottles the crystals from very small to a small potato chip size. Here is an example of crystals poured into a glass.



that's exactly what mine looked like, only more brown, less red.


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## Wade E (Jan 22, 2011)

To bad we couldnt get rich of these!!


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## Runningwolf (Jan 22, 2011)

ffemt128 said:


> I was considering placing these outside my basement door in the enclosed stairwell to see if anything else is going to drop out. I may place my Muscadine out there also. Need to let it warm up a bit, *I don't think 3 degrees is CS temps*.



Doug, I disagree with the 3* temperature. I would add some Potassium bitartrate and set it out there in a milk crate with Vodka in the air lock. Its going to take a while to get your wine down to temp and a whole lot longer before you really have to worry about it freezing. It will get slushy though. With the addition of Potassium bitartrate my guess is you will be done cold stabilizing in 5-7 days. Keep an eye on it though. Keep the carboy in the crate when you brig it back in as to not bump the cold glass and let it slowly come back to temp. I usually wait a day before racking off the diamonds.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 22, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> Doug, I disagree with the 3* temperature. I would add some Potassium bitartrate and set it out there in a milk crate with Vodka in the air lock. Its going to take a while to get your wine down to temp and a whole lot longer before you really have to worry about it freezing. It will get slushy though. With the addition of Potassium bitartrate my guess is you will be done cold stabilizing in 5-7 days. Keep an eye on it though. Keep the carboy in the crate when you brig it back in as to not bump the cold glass and let it slowly come back to temp. I usually wait a day before racking off the diamonds.



the temp in the stairwell after 30 minutes took the thermometer to about 24 degrees, I'm going to stick it out there and see what happens. Its in a better bottle now and I'll put some vodka or rum in the airlock. Not sure if I have vodka.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 22, 2011)

I also use BB's in my freezer. 18-28* and I really don't think you have anything to worry about. I leave 3-4" min of head space. You're air lock goes crazy as the wine warms up and with milk crates you won't have any issues moving the BB's.


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## Wade E (Jan 22, 2011)

That temp will work just fine and being in BB will be safer especially once it is that cold and when it needs moving like Dan stated. Just make sure when you rack it from there to another vessel that if its glass you let that wine warm back up or subject that empty carboy to that colder temp so as to not rack 24* wine into a 60* glass carboy!!!!! Crack!!!!!!!!!


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## Runningwolf (Jan 22, 2011)

Wade E said:


> Just make sure when you rack it from there to another vessel that if its glass you let that wine warm back up or subject that empty carboy to that colder temp so as to not rack 24* wine into a 60* glass carboy!!!!! Crack!!!!!!!!!



Thanks for addind that Wade as that was one of the points I was getting to and left out.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 22, 2011)

Well I moved both the Malvasia,Noble Muscadine, Chablis, and J Reisling outside the basement door in the covered stairwell. Wine level was just at the neck or just below for all of them so that should be sufficient I would think. The Malvasia, J Reisling and Chablis aren't dropping anything at the current temps recently but they may in the colder temps.

I think I may rotate the rest of the carboys through the stairwell over the course of the next couple weeks just to see what happens. At 40-50 degrees at last racking there were still crystals, though not as many as the previous racking.

Just checked the meat thermometer that I have sitting on the bench at carboy level. It's currently reading 42 degrees. At head height where I had the regular thermometer it is 53 degrees, that area is subject to the heater vent though. Funny, doesn't feel that cold down there right now.


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## homer (Jan 22, 2011)

Crystals in my Mars Grape Wine after 4 weeks. bk


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## Flame145 (Jan 24, 2011)

Do you have to rack the wine as right away. While it is still cold ?? or does it matter if the wine comes back to temperature, prior to racking ?????


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## ibglowin (Jan 24, 2011)

Flame145 said:


> Do you have to rack the wine as right away. While it is still cold ?? or does it matter if the wine comes back to temperature, prior to racking ?????



You should rack while cold to avert anything going back into solution at a warmer temperature. Once a crystal forms it tends to drop out of solution for the most part and stay a solid but every now and then something will break the rules and do its own thing based on temperature so why take the chance.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 25, 2011)

Is there any concern going from a 30* carboy to a 60 degree carboy? I'm planning on moving indoors again this coming Saturday. The weekend was single digit temps for the most part and I believe the rest of the week will be around 30. As I said before, I was dropping acid like crazy at temps of 45-50ish. I just wanted to see if anything else was going to precipitate out.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 25, 2011)

ffemt128 said:


> Is there any concern going from a 30* carboy to a 6 degree carboy? I'm planning on moving indoors again this coming Saturday. The weekend was single digit temps for the most part and I believe the rest of the week will be around 30. As I said before, I was dropping acid like crazy at temps of 45-50ish. I just wanted to see if anything else was going to precipitate out.



Doug I am confused on what you're saying. You say you're going from 30* to a 6* but then you mention the temp as being in single digits to 30"s. Regardless of which way you are going, you'll be fine. As we mentioned before use caution moving the carboys so you don't bump anything. Moving in milk crates is best. Wait till you wine comes back to room temperature before racking.


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## Midwest Vintner (Jan 25, 2011)

i've gotten the diamonds in an accidental leaving of a bottle in the fridge for 2 weeks. that's set at ~36-40F, so i don't think 30F is necessary. you could also chill the glass carboy before racking into it to avoid cracking. i think the crystals will mostly stay out as i left that bottle out with a bit of wine in the bottom and the crystals were still there. had to be getting close to room temp after letting it sit for an hour or two. only had 3-5 oz's of liquid in it.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 25, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> Doug I am confused on what you're saying. You say you're going from 30* to a 6* but then you mention the temp as being in single digits to 30"s. Regardless of which way you are going, you'll be fine. As we mentioned before use caution moving the carboys so you don't bump anything. Moving in milk crates is best. Wait till you wine comes back to room temperature before racking.



My mistake, it should have said 30* to 60*. It was single digits both saturday and sunday here but warmed up into the low 30's monday afternoon. I'm not planning on racking right away anyhow, I was just curious.

Thanks and I'll edit the original post to reflect above.


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## robie (Jan 25, 2011)

Setting outside or in a doorway will get the temp down, but you will have lots of fluctuations, as the outside temperature changes.

I have this problem. My CS is in my garage, near an outside door. What I do is get the temperature of the wine down close to where I want it, then wrap the carboy with a blanket.

The volume of 6 gallons of wine helps keep the wine temperature from fluctuating very fast, anyway. Adding a blanket helps stabilize it even more. Just don't wrap it before it gets to your desired CS temperature.

Now, if I can just keep from running over $175 worth 
of RJS En Primier Cab with my car...


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## ffemt128 (Jan 27, 2011)

I just pulled my juice from the stairwell after 6 days. I must say I was quite surprised. All juice went into the well crystal clear with absolutely nothing on the bottom of the carboys. The Muscadine from what I can see has a layer of crystals, the J Reisling and Chablis have a good thick layer of crystals. The Malvasia has some crytals but far less than the other wines.

I just placed my 12 gallons of Apple out there as well and will let it remain there for a week or so. Temps at night are in the teens and for the next week they are expectings highs in the upper 20's. I think a week for these should suffice.

I may move my Red Muscadine out later this afternoon for a week as well.

Will the Merlot and Pinot Noir benefit from the same or should I not bother?


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## robie (Jan 27, 2011)

Just remember that wine can still freeze. The temperature at which it will freeze depends on the alcohol content.

It can freeze in the lower 20's F.

Goggle - "temperature at which wine will freeze"


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## Runningwolf (Jan 27, 2011)

Robie I agree with you on it freezing. Before I got a thermostat for my freezer I was cold stabilizing in the lower single digits in my freezer. I left it in there for 5-10 Days. I did get some heavy slush on a few but it never got close to freezing solid even at the top. I think Doug will be fine. I did use extra caution when handling the glass.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 28, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> Robie I agree with you on it freezing. Before I got a thermostat for my freezer I was cold stabilizing in the lower single digits in my freezer. I left it in there for 5-10 Days. I did get some heavy slush on a few but it never got close to freezing solid even at the top. I think Doug will be fine. I did use extra caution when handling the glass.



In the stairwell when it was single digits ourside, it wasn't that cold there. I'm only left the previous batch out there for 6 days since crystals were precipitaing out already in the normal temps of the basement. With temps being mid to upper 20's now, I may leave these out for 10 days. I check them every couple days to ensure they are not freezing or getting slushy.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 28, 2011)

Doug, freezing is not a bad thing if you don't break your carboy. I always make sure I live extra space for expansion. Read what luc has to say about freezing wine.


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## robie (Jan 28, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> Doug, freezing is not a bad thing if you don't break your carboy. I always make sure I live extra space for expansion. Read what luc has to say about freezing wine.



Now THAT is interesting. I have never heard this before. Think I just might do some experimenting with this. I wonder if the amount of time the wine is frozen has any impact?

Thanks for sharing Luc's tests with us. he is quite the wine maker, I've learned a lot from his work.


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## joea132 (Feb 16, 2011)

I cold stabilized 3 full demi-johns (a real bear to move) in my garage for 3 weeks. My pH was around 2.9 and the wine tasted like crap. I moved them back in the 60*-70* basement a few days ago and forgot to leave the headspace. Big mess! I'm worried that the acid didn't precipitate out enough because the wine didn't taste all that different. I also sulfited too early and im waiting for them to wear off so I can undergo MLF probably in the spring. 


I'm going to take a pH reading again when it comes to temperature, but I didn't see many crystals when I racked... when it was cold, the pH read around 3.5 but obviously temperature affects the reading.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 16, 2011)

Hey Joe welcome to the forum. Time to fess up. Whats your connection to the boss man? Its good to see Wade is getting a few people up there to trade with. When you get a chance how about going to our introductions thread in the beginners section and let us know a bit about yourself and what you have made or making. Once again. welcome to the party.


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## tolikovski (Oct 9, 2012)

old thread, but perhaps you have some numbers of TA drop/pH rise after cold stabilization? anyone can share?


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## winemaker_3352 (Oct 9, 2012)

From my experience - I usually get around 0.1% drop in TA - never measured PH - didn't have a meter..


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