# Trash can operations



## gitmo234 (Feb 4, 2018)

Looking for some info on up-scaling. Right now I'm eyeing up the white, food grade trash cans at home depot. If what I have fermenting right now goes well, I want to do a lot more at once. 

Any tips or advice on upscaling? Right now space is sort-of a problem. I live in northern VA in a town house with a basement. Not exactly easy to or ideal for bulk wine making.


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## NorCal (Feb 4, 2018)

I have 20 gallon, 32 gallon, 44 gallon brutes. I have 55 gallon variable cap stainless steel container and two 180 gallon macro bins. It’s all about having the right tool for the job.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 4, 2018)

That looks wonderful. I'm assuming as far as additives/yeast/etc its just an even scale up. If x is for 5 gallons then 6x for for 3, etc.

I'm curious as to what you use to rack to at this size. When you have to rack of gross lees, where does it go, another trash can? Demijohn?


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 5, 2018)

In N. VA as well and am a 'trash can winemaker'. I go from trash can(s) to carboys. And yes, everything pretty much just scales up.


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## balatonwine (Feb 5, 2018)

Such "food safe" trash cans are often listed as NSF 2, NSF 21 compliant only. Which only means they are good as acting as food shields usually only as a "splash zone" (NSF 2 -- "A food shield shall provide a barrier between the mouth of a customer and unpackaged food to minimize the potential of contamination of the food by a customer"), or as refuse containers that can store trash without contaminating nearby food (NSF 21).

Despite their wide spread use "without problems" (anecdotally claimed), they are not generically designed to make wine.

To make wine consider glass, stainless steel, or HDPE containers actually designed, made and certified to make wine (e.g. NSF 51 -- "The requirements of this Standard are intended to ensure that the composition and finish of food equipment materials are such that a material will not adulterate food nor render food equipment difficult to clean and sanitize.").

Do what you want. But, just saying.....


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## mainshipfred (Feb 5, 2018)

Where are you in NOVA, I'm here as well.


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## JohnT (Feb 5, 2018)

The only upscale advice I can offer is this.. Get twice as big as you need. 

I have gone from carboys to demijohns, then from demijohns to SSVC tanks. Each time I scaled up, it cost me.
It would have been far cheaper to go directly from carboys to SSVC tanks. I would also have avoided the hassle of getting rid of my old demijohns.


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## stickman (Feb 5, 2018)

The standard Brute trash cans available at the home store are actually listed as utility containers mod 2632 etc, Meet NSF 2, 21 approval and are USDA Meat and Poultry Group listed, ensuring regulatory compliance for food storage and clean ability. Rubbermaid is well aware of restaurants using these cans for everything and anything they need. I would still agree that, if you have a choice, a container specifically designed for wine would be ideal.


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## jgmillr1 (Feb 5, 2018)

A good alternative to trash cans is to use 30 or 55 gallon poly ethylene drums with lids (such as https://www.uline.com/BL_8154/Plastic-Drums?keywords=food+grade+barrels). Some homebrew stores that receive liquid malt extract have emptied barrels for sale cheap too.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 5, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Where are you in NOVA, I'm here as well.



I'm in the Burke area, near Fairfax.

Thanks for the input everyone and please keep it coming.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 5, 2018)

gitmo234 said:


> I'm in the Burke area, near Fairfax.
> 
> Thanks for the input everyone and please keep it coming.



You're close. I'm on the border of Centreville and Chantilly - 28 and Westfields


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## gitmo234 (Feb 5, 2018)

Awesome. I just moved into the area the second I got home from the deployment. Just learning the area


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## sour_grapes (Feb 5, 2018)

jgmillr1 said:


> A good alternative to trash cans is to use 30 or 55 gallon poly ethylene drums with lids (such as https://www.uline.com/BL_8154/Plastic-Drums?keywords=food+grade+barrels). Some homebrew stores that receive liquid malt extract have emptied barrels for sale cheap too.



Agree with JG. I scored a couple of 55-gallon food-grade drums from a local winery. They buy juice from Cali, and it comes in 55 gal drums, so they sold two to me for a sawbuck apiece.


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## balatonwine (Feb 6, 2018)

stickman said:


> The standard Brute trash cans available at the home store are actually listed as utility containers mod 2632 etc, Meet NSF 2, 21 approval and are USDA Meat and Poultry Group listed, ensuring regulatory compliance for food storage and clean ability.



Just want to point out a minor detail: that "food storage" and "food processing" (i.e. fermenting and making wine), are not synonymous. Ergo, and for example, transporting and storage of grapes or immediate and temporary post crush must in a Brute I have no problems with.

But that is just me of course.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 6, 2018)

What's the best option for 25 gallons or less at a time? Is there a stainless steel fermentor or something that works well? Something actually rated for wine making, I mean. I dont mind trash can ops, but would like to look at options


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## Johnd (Feb 6, 2018)

gitmo234 said:


> What's the best option for 25 gallons or less at a time? Is there a stainless steel fermentor or something that works well? Something actually rated for wine making, I mean. I dont mind trash can ops, but would like to look at options



Visit the MoreWine site, they sell vessels for fermentation, pick the size that suits your needs.


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## REDRUM (Feb 6, 2018)

balatonwine said:


> Just want to point out a minor detail: that "food storage" and "food processing" (i.e. fermenting and making wine), are not synonymous. Ergo, and for example, transporting and storage of grapes or immediate and temporary post crush must in a Brute I have no problems with.
> 
> But that is just me of course.



I'm with you here. People can be far too precious about this sort of stuff ... most of the equipment winemakers use (timber slatted basket presses, oak barrels, etc etc) are miles away from 'food standard' vessels. Commercial wineries have no problem transporting their grapes in big generic bins like the ones in the picture.


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## NorCal (Feb 7, 2018)

The bins I use are the standard bin used in the industry at least here in Nor Cal. There are plenty of local wineries that use them to ferment in as well.


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