# No More Grapes/Juice from Harford



## Boatboy24

Got the bad news earlier. I need to do some exploring. This sucks and may very well put me out of business.


----------



## jgmann67

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the bad news earlier. I need to do some exploring. This sucks and may very well put me out of business.


----------



## ceeaton

I didn't see this thread, I replied to another. Hopefully some place will pick up the slack. My wife wondered if the events they held most weekends were starting to produce enough sales?

There's always frozen juice from PI Wines? WineGrapes Direct thought about securing some freezer space in Hazelton, still not close but that would be nice. Don't know what happened to the idea. I have lot's of local connections for Fall grapes, but nothing for Spring ones yet. Maybe Brian @ Adams County winery could stop making wine for a day or two and they could offer some in the Spring? (I know, wishful thinking)


----------



## gitmo234

I'll let you know what I get from grapemasters. Although it's been THREE WEEKS since I ordered (as of monday when they'll finally ship it). I'm running dangerously close to being out of town for two weeks for work and I'm going to be upset if my 8 month pregnant wife has to receive all 3 buckets and take care of them while I'm away because they sat on shipping it.

Despite the shipping so far being horrible, ive heard the quality is awesome


----------



## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the bad news earlier. I need to do some exploring. This sucks and may very well put me out of business.



And the Oscar for best dramatic scene goes to............!

Mr Boatboy- the news is just fresh that’s all. Nobody’s winemaking careers are going out of business!! adding a few hours each way would only be enough to put you out if winemaking wasn’t terribly important. But alas- it IS important. And Broad Run Cellars WILL adapt with the times. 
For perspective—Look at your buddies down south. @Johnd and @ibglowin Those dudes are driving a whole lotta hours and getting damn hotel rooms for their grapes some years! 
Still plenty of options— with trekking to next closest joint or there’s always frozen must. And maybe this is just opening doors for new opportunities now. —-hear me out ...


----------



## Ajmassa

I know a lot of you guys have a routine with getting a few different varietals totaling a few hundred
Lbs. BUT— if enough people are interested and can agree on the same varietals from the same vineyard- maybe we could actually put our heads together and secure a high quality bulk purchase that would otherwise not be available to the smaller volume home winemaker. If that were to happen- then there could be centralized location to get our grapes. (Or we crush together and take home must like @sour_grapes just did)
Collingswood grapes in Cleveland offer some higher quality fruit. Some varietals are only available in 500lb minimums. But really need a big bulk purchase to warrant a delivery. If an order doesn’t fill a truck, then it’s also possible to tag along within another delivery locally. Some wineries in the area order from them and a deal could Most certainly be reached. I spoke with them before about this. Their highest quality most expensive grapes are from Sonoma Alexander valley, lake county (next to Napa’s) red hills, and wash st. Red mountain — all near $2.25 per lb. And their cheapest grapes are Lodi at about $1.20 per lb. I was also told that with a big bulk purchase all prices can further negotiated. Order in by mid August was fine he said too. Just something to think about. Might be cool.


----------



## ceeaton

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Look at your buddies down south. @Johnd and @ibglowin Those dudes are driving a whole lotta hours and getting damn hotel rooms for their grapes some years!


I was actually thinking about a few of the trips they had both made lately when I heard the news. We'll adapt, but it's tough when we realize how good we had it (proximity, quality, great customer service). It was easy to take for granted. I've gotta take those two wines I made from my local wine grower and let him have a taste as I size up the probability of getting some local grapes from him this Fall.


----------



## jgmann67

I can see doing a run down to Philly or South Jersey. A longer ride. But the company is good, so it’s just a question of time and miles.


----------



## mainshipfred

I immediately googled the distance for Gino Pinto. It's about a 3 hr drive for me so not too bad especially if others will be there the same time. I also have my fingers crossed I would be able to get enough local grapes this fall. Plus I do like the idea of a large shared purchase but where to receive it might be a problem. I have a warehouse with a forklift for unloading but it would be a bit of a drive for most.


----------



## Zintrigue

Sierra Foothills, represent! 

(Seriously though, I love Amador zins.)


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> I immediately googled the distance for Gino Pinto. It's about a 3 hr drive for me so not too bad especially if others will be there the same time. I also have my fingers crossed I would be able to get enough local grapes this fall. Plus I do like the idea of a large shared purchase but where to receive it might be a problem. I have a warehouse with a forklift for unloading but it would be a bit of a drive for most.


It's funny. I did distances for me and Pearmund comes up as 2 hrs and 3 minutes. So Keystone in Bethlehem, Keystone in Montgomeryville, Procacci Bros in Philly and Pearmund are all within a few minutes of 2 hours for me (I think the longest was 2 hrs 11 minutes).


----------



## Boatboy24

Zintrigue said:


> Sierra Foothills, represent!
> 
> (Seriously though, I love Amador zins.)



You and me both. Very upset right now - Harford had some great stuff available. I went down and hugged my C/D this morning.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> I immediately googled the distance for Gino Pinto. It's about a 3 hr drive for me so not too bad especially if others will be there the same time. I also have my fingers crossed I would be able to get enough local grapes this fall. Plus I do like the idea of a large shared purchase but where to receive it might be a problem. I have a warehouse with a forklift for unloading but it would be a bit of a drive for most.



Fred: There is an S&S Grapes near Columbia, MD. I know someone that has been buying from them for years and loves them. I've called a few times and emailed in the past, but have never received a response. Guess they don't need the business.


----------



## heatherd

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the bad news earlier. I need to do some exploring. This sucks and may very well put me out of business.


Wow, it does suck.

I was just starting a thread to let you guys know....

I have tried S&S as well and never got an answer.


----------



## ceeaton

heatherd said:


> Wow, it does suck.
> 
> I was just starting a thread to let you guys know....
> 
> I have tried S&S as well and never got an answer.


And @heatherd, your mission, if you decide to take it, is to find a local source for both Spring and Fall grapes, closer than Harford, yet cheaper...


----------



## heatherd

I've been having Harford crush and destem for me, and haven't bought any of that equipment. This may push me toward frozen must.


----------



## Ajmassa

heatherd said:


> I've been having Harford crush and destem for me, and haven't bought any of that equipment. This may push me toward frozen must.



Keystone homebrew offers the crush/destem service. Pretty cheap too. I think it was $1 per lug. And $.05 per lb if c/d grapes purchased from elsewhere. 

I feel your guys pain. I’m half tempted to invest in a refrigerated truck and start a business redistributing grapes right out of the back! 
In the meantime I’m always willing to go in on a bulk purchase. Keystone sells some by 1/4 ton and 1/2 ton. My fall plan is to purchase about 500lbs of the best Cabernet grapes I’m able to find. If anyone wants to piggyback just give me a holler.


----------



## gitmo234

If keystone offered de-stemming, crushing, freezing and shipping of the fresh stuff I'd buy a lot more from them. the Vino brand they have is GREAT. It's just pricey and limited in variety.


----------



## Boatboy24

heatherd said:


> I have tried S&S as well and never got an answer.



Don't know what's up with that place, but I'm not going to pursue, that's for certain.


----------



## Boatboy24

heatherd said:


> I've been having Harford crush and destem for me, and haven't bought any of that equipment. This may push me toward frozen must.



Harford has some decent deals on C/D and press.


----------



## Boatboy24

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Keystone homebrew offers the crush/destem service. Pretty cheap too. I think it was $1 per lug. And $.05 per lb if c/d grapes purchased from elsewhere.
> 
> I feel your guys pain. I’m half tempted to invest in a refrigerated truck and start a business redistributing grapes right out of the back!
> In the meantime I’m always willing to go in on a bulk purchase. Keystone sells some by 1/4 ton and 1/2 ton. My fall plan is to purchase about 500lbs of the best Cabernet grapes I’m able to find. If anyone wants to piggyback just give me a holler.



Depending upon logistics, I may be interested.


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I know a lot of you guys have a routine with getting a few different varietals totaling a few hundred
> Lbs. BUT— if enough people are interested and can agree on the same varietals from the same vineyard- maybe we could actually put our heads together and secure a high quality bulk purchase that would otherwise not be available to the smaller volume home winemaker. If that were to happen- then there could be centralized location to get our grapes. (Or we crush together and take home must like @sour_grapes just did)
> Collingswood grapes in Cleveland offer some higher quality fruit. Some varietals are only available in 500lb minimums. But really need a big bulk purchase to warrant a delivery. If an order doesn’t fill a truck, then it’s also possible to tag along within another delivery locally. Some wineries in the area order from them and a deal could Most certainly be reached. I spoke with them before about this. Their highest quality most expensive grapes are from Sonoma Alexander valley, lake county (next to Napa’s) red hills, and wash st. Red mountain — all near $2.25 per lb. And their cheapest grapes are Lodi at about $1.20 per lb. I was also told that with a big bulk purchase all prices can further negotiated. Order in by mid August was fine he said too. Just something to think about. Might be cool. View attachment 49658



Though I understand better fruit makes better wine I'm not sure my wine making abilities would warrant paying $2.25/lb. Come hell or high water I will be making a Tannat this fall. If anyone would be interested in this varietal.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Though I understand better fruit makes better wine I'm not sure my wine making abilities would warrant paying $2.25/lb. Come hell or high water I will be making a Tannat this fall. If anyone would be interested in this varietal.



That $2.25/lb is for grapes that neither one of us are currently buying. Compare that to Harford's pricing of the Sonoma/Chalk Hill Cab at $102/lug. 

I may have to drive around and do some local sampling. And as you know, I'm always interested in some Viognier or Petite Manseng.


----------



## Johnd

Below is an ad from the current issue of Winemaker Mag, if you Harford users can assemble an order of reasonable size, you could have your very own truck deliver grapes to one central location that’s convenient. Probably save yourselves some bucks as well. I used grapes from Colavita (Cab, Merlot, Petite Sirah) in 17 and am super pleased so far, and will again this year, @ibglowin won some awards with them if I recall. Just another option to consider.


----------



## mainshipfred

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Keystone homebrew offers the crush/destem service. Pretty cheap too. I think it was $1 per lug. And $.05 per lb if c/d grapes purchased from elsewhere.
> 
> I feel your guys pain. I’m half tempted to invest in a refrigerated truck and start a business redistributing grapes right out of the back!
> *In the meantime I’m always willing to go in on a bulk purchase.* Keystone sells some by 1/4 ton and 1/2 ton. My fall plan is to purchase about 500lbs of the best Cabernet grapes I’m able to find. If anyone wants to piggyback just give me a holler.



Here you go AJ sounds like something I would consider but don't see how the numbers could work.
https://www.penskeusedtrucks.com/search-inventory.html


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Fred: There is an S&S Grapes near Columbia, MD. I know someone that has been buying from them for years and loves them. I've called a few times and emailed in the past, but have never received a response. Guess they don't need the business.



Their website is down and the pic of the address shows what appears to be an abandoned building.


----------



## mainshipfred

Was going to post this in "What Are You doing Today" but thought this might be more appropriate. I'm going to an AWS meeting today about Cab Franc. The speaker was the winemaker from the winery I built and is now a private winemaking consultant. I'm going to pick his brain about local vineyards that sell grapes. Anyone have any other questions they might want me to ask?


----------



## mainshipfred

heatherd said:


> I've been having Harford crush and destem for me, and haven't bought any of that equipment. This may push me toward frozen must.



Not to put a damper on your idea but if/when we find another source for grapes the expense of frozen must will quickly out weight the cost of a C/D.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Was going to post this in "What Are You doing Today" but thought this might be more appropriate. I'm going to an AWS meeting today about Cab Franc. The speaker was the winemaker from the winery I built and is now a private winemaking consultant. I'm going to pick his brain about local vineyards that sell grapes. Anyone have any other questions they might want me to ask?



We were out with some folks on Friday night and I was speaking with a few about wine and winemaking - the Chrysalis tasting room came up. I said "I know the guy that built that place!!"


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> That $2.25/lb is for grapes that neither one of us are currently buying. Compare that to Harford's pricing of the Sonoma/Chalk Hill Cab at $102/lug.
> 
> I may have to drive around and do some local sampling. And as you know, I'm always interested in some Viognier or Petite Manseng.



Go to Effingham Manor in Nokesville and see if they are tasting their 2014 Tannat. The 2016 is good as well but the 2014 is one of the best wine I've ever tasted. Chrysalis also has a pretty good 2014. Must have been a good year for it.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Their website is down and the pic of the address shows what appears to be an abandoned building.



Contacted my friend about them this morning. He said he's still using them and loves them. I guess they just aren't interested in new business.


----------



## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> Below is an ad from the current issue of Winemaker Mag, if you Harford users can assemble an order of reasonable size, you could have your very own truck deliver grapes to one central location that’s convenient. Probably save yourselves some bucks as well. I used grapes from Colavita (Cab, Merlot, Petite Sirah) in 17 and am super pleased so far, and will again this year, @ibglowin won some awards with them if I recall. Just another option to consider.
> View attachment 49683



Thanks John. I will definitely investigate this further. The other joint I mentioned, Collingswood grape co., were very honest on the phone. It’s a father and son ran business. His trucks hold 4-5 tons. To fill a truck and warrant our own delivery seems unlikely. 
Another option is to steal some truck space on another delivery. The closest winery he delivers to is in Hersey PA. But our grape selections would also have to be ready at the same time. And he told me this winery usually orders the Lodi grapes. Which go for ~$1.20 per lb. And when buying bulk the price and delivery fees are always negotiable. 
I’ll be on the horn looking into any bulk options. Because I would love to be able to get some higher quality grapes at a great price - who wouldn’t? @Boatboy24 I will post any more findings I come across.


----------



## Gabert Grape

My experience with Collinwood Grape...
I have heard both good and bad about this Collinwood guy. I purchased some Amador county zin from a LHBS that purchases from him for $40 per lug (crushed and de-stemmed). The guy told me that the quality was meh. The wine that resulted was not too bad so I asked Collinwood about his Amador zin and he raved about the quality and said Amador is more expensive than that of other AVA's. I dropped the subject because I thought I was being sold.
I did purchase some Chilean Malbec from him that was very good and made a great wine. Last fall I wanted some syrah and a couple of buckets of Pinot Griggio. When I talked to him he said he could deliver it with another order. Weeks passed and I continued to call him, and I even offered to drive from Chicago to Cleveland. He kept assuring me it was coming. Finally in November he told me he had no syrah left and all he had was some Lodi Tempranillo. The quality was terrible. By this time all the other guys in my area were out, so I was stuck. I have 40 gallons of wine that may end up down the drain, only time will tell. A lot of work to purchase a quarter ton of grapes, It seems he does not value my business. 
This spring I wanted some Chilean Cab and Syrah. I told him I would pick it up in Cleveland. I called weekly and his response was he would call me when they are ready to pick-up. eventually I stopped calling and told him I would wait for his call. Here it is almost the middle of July and I still have not received a call. (I wonder if he'll call, LOL). Another LHBS told me his quality is mostly good but he is very unreliable.
Good luck in dealing with this guy.


----------



## heatherd

Boatboy24 said:


> Harford has some decent deals on C/D and press.


It's a space issue for me, though. I'm working in my kitchen...


----------



## heatherd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Keystone homebrew offers the crush/destem service. Pretty cheap too. I think it was $1 per lug. And $.05 per lb if c/d grapes purchased from elsewhere.
> 
> I feel your guys pain. I’m half tempted to invest in a refrigerated truck and start a business redistributing grapes right out of the back!
> In the meantime I’m always willing to go in on a bulk purchase. Keystone sells some by 1/4 ton and 1/2 ton. My fall plan is to purchase about 500lbs of the best Cabernet grapes I’m able to find. If anyone wants to piggyback just give me a holler.



@gitmo234 @Ajmassa5983 @Boatboy24 @ceeaton @mainshipfred @jgmann67 

They do:
"We offer grape crushing as long as we have grapes in stock ($2 per box for Keystone grapes, $0.15 per pound of grapes sourced elsewhere). *Please plan to arrive AT LEAST 1 HOUR PRIOR TO CLOSING TIME if you would like your grapes crushed."*
https://www.keystonehomebrew.com/central-valley-grapes-juice/
http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/shop/wine/fresh-grapes-and-juice/premium-grapes-juice.html

The Montgomeryville PA location is 2.5 hours from me, so that's viable. They have fresh grapes/juice from Washington, California, and Italy, based on their website. 

I haven't ordered from them yet but will try them for fall grapes and juice.

Has anyone else ordered fresh grapes from Keystone??​


----------



## heatherd

Johnd said:


> Below is an ad from the current issue of Winemaker Mag, if you Harford users can assemble an order of reasonable size, you could have your very own truck deliver grapes to one central location that’s convenient. Probably save yourselves some bucks as well. I used grapes from Colavita (Cab, Merlot, Petite Sirah) in 17 and am super pleased so far, and will again this year, @ibglowin won some awards with them if I recall. Just another option to consider.
> View attachment 49683


@Johnd I tried their website and it's under construction, but I'll keep them in mind....


----------



## Boatboy24

Just did a little Googling and Procacci is 2hrs 40 min from my place. Gino Pinto's is 3hrs 14 minutes. An hour+ more than Harford each way, but may be workable - especially if their hours are good.


----------



## Johnd

heatherd said:


> @Johnd I tried their website and it's under construction, but I'll keep them in mind....



Yes, saw the same thing after posting about it, sorry for the diversion. They must be updating their stuff, I've been on their site plenty times before, as recent as a few weeks ago. Maybe when they come back up they'll have all of their offerings for grapes loaded in and ready to rumble.................


----------



## mainshipfred

Just spoke to Tom at S&S. They do not preorder so it's first come first serve. A better number to use is 410-799-8224. His email is [email protected]. They are in Jessup MD and updating their website. Grapes start coming in August September timeframe and continue until November. The average cost is $40.00/lug.


----------



## ceeaton

heatherd said:


> @gitmo234 @Ajmassa5983 @Boatboy24 @ceeaton @mainshipfred @jgmann67
> 
> They do:
> "We offer grape crushing as long as we have grapes in stock ($2 per box for Keystone grapes, $0.15 per pound of grapes sourced elsewhere). *Please plan to arrive AT LEAST 1 HOUR PRIOR TO CLOSING TIME if you would like your grapes crushed."*
> https://www.keystonehomebrew.com/central-valley-grapes-juice/
> http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/shop/wine/fresh-grapes-and-juice/premium-grapes-juice.html
> 
> The Montgomeryville PA location is 2.5 hours from me, so that's viable. They have fresh grapes/juice from Washington, California, and Italy, based on their website.
> 
> I haven't ordered from them yet but will try them for fall grapes and juice.
> 
> Has anyone else ordered fresh grapes from Keystone??​


Keystone is 2 hrs 9 min from me according to google maps. I also have some friends who moved close to there in the last couple of years. That is my most likely destination if I order grapes this Fall. May go local if I can get another 100+ lbs of Dornfelder.


----------



## jgmann67

ceeaton said:


> Keystone is 2 hrs 9 min from me according to google maps. I also have some friends who moved close to there in the last couple of years. That is my most likely destination if I order grapes this Fall. May go local if I can get another 100+ lbs of Dornfelder.



It’s even shorter for me. Under 2 hours. Guessing this is where we land in the fall.


----------



## ceeaton

jgmann67 said:


> It’s even shorter for me. Under 2 hours. Guessing this is where we land in the fall.


Yea, but the Dornfelder may only be 50 minutes away, round trip.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Just spoke to Tom at S&S. They do not preorder so it's first come first serve. A better number to use is 410-799-8224. His email is [email protected]. They are in Jessup MD and updating their website. Grapes start coming in August September timeframe and continue until November. The average cost is $40.00/lug.



Thanks Fred! My contact is supposed to be getting me Brian's (owner) contact info. Though I'm not interested in gambling on first come/first served.


----------



## Ajmassa

heatherd said:


> @gitmo234 @Ajmassa5983 @Boatboy24 @ceeaton @mainshipfred @jgmann67
> 
> They do:
> "We offer grape crushing as long as we have grapes in stock ($2 per box for Keystone grapes, $0.15 per pound of grapes sourced elsewhere). *Please plan to arrive AT LEAST 1 HOUR PRIOR TO CLOSING TIME if you would like your grapes crushed."*
> https://www.keystonehomebrew.com/central-valley-grapes-juice/
> http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/shop/wine/fresh-grapes-and-juice/premium-grapes-juice.html
> 
> The Montgomeryville PA location is 2.5 hours from me, so that's viable. They have fresh grapes/juice from Washington, California, and Italy, based on their website.
> 
> I haven't ordered from them yet but will try them for fall grapes and juice.
> 
> Has anyone else ordered fresh grapes from Keystone??​



Their Montgomeryville PA location is legit. Biggest LHBS I’ve ever seen. Kit Wines and beer on tap while you shop. BIG joint. Attatched to “key and stone winery”. Use their Lab for sample testing. Rent equipment. Very impressive. Never got their grapes tho I’ve utilized just about everything else they have to offer. I’ve ever heard anything negative about their grapes either. 
Harford and Gino pinto typically sell the same stuff every year. Procacci sells all Regina and Pia. 
Keystone has completely different suppliers than the others. For both spring and fall. Always viewed them as a legitimate option if I ever wanted to change it up.


----------



## Boatboy24

@Ajmassa5983 is it me, or do Keystone's prices seem high? I'm used to paying a bit of a premium at Harford, but for the relative convenience, I was happy to. They weren't buying huge quantities, so they weren't getting the best pricing. Within a few minutes, its the same distance for me to go to Keystone or Gino's. Procacci is a little closer. I think I'd rather go to Gino's and get what I'm used to getting from Lanza, etc.


----------



## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> @Ajmassa5983 is it me, or do Keystone's prices seem high? I'm used to paying a bit of a premium at Harford, but for the relative convenience, I was happy to. They weren't buying huge quantities, so they weren't getting the best pricing. Within a few minutes, its the same distance for me to go to Keystone or Gino's. Procacci is a little closer. I think I'd rather go to Gino's and get what I'm used to getting from Lanza, etc.



I haven’t bought from hem so haven’t really looked to hard at the pricing. It looks like all the premium stuff from 2017 is still listed but all the Central Valley grapes are no longer able to be viewed. A while back I photoshopped the pintos menu to see everything in one pic. 
And here’s Keystones sans Central Valley too. 

. Options are great to have


----------



## mainshipfred

Here is last years prices from S and S. They don't let you know where the grapes come from though.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Here is last years prices from S and S. They don't let you know where the grapes come from though.



Cheap. But as you said, who knows where they're from.

Looks like Gino's pricing is comparable (some a little higher, some a little lower) to Harford. They carry the same grapes, and then some.

@pgentile : I believe you've purchased from both Procacci and Gino Pinto. Any comments you can make comparing the quality/prices of the two?


----------



## balatonwine

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the bad news earlier. I need to do some exploring. This sucks and may very well put me out of business.



Self sufficiency. The American way. Maybe time to put a plow into the soil and have your own vineyard. 

Or at *least* diversify.... No business should rely heavily on just one source. Economics 101.


----------



## Ajmassa

Well while we’re at it— here’s the Procacci Bros 2017 list too. This is the joint my family was going to since well before I was even born. 
Procacci on pickup day is like stepping back in time. And up until recently Procacci Bros was all I knew.


----------



## heatherd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Their Montgomeryville PA location is legit. Biggest LHBS I’ve ever seen. Kit Wines and beer on tap while you shop. BIG joint. Attatched to “key and stone winery”. Use their Lab for sample testing. Rent equipment. Very impressive. Never got their grapes tho I’ve utilized just about everything else they have to offer. I’ve ever heard anything negative about their grapes either.
> Harford and Gino pinto typically sell the same stuff every year. Procacci sells all Regina and Pia.
> Keystone has completely different suppliers than the others. For both spring and fall. Always viewed them as a legitimate option if I ever wanted to change it up.


@Ajmassa5983 Keystone is where I'm going to get fresh stuff this year - their crush/destem capabilities make them more viable than the others for me, for now at least. My local homebrew shop closed, so it's nice to have something else to replace it, even though they're 2.5 hours away. Nice to know it's a decent place.


----------



## Boatboy24

Gino Pinto and Keystone are about the same drive for me. I'm leaning toward testing out GP this fall. Its a heckuva drive, but may be worth it. And since it appears they open at 8am, I could be home with grapes at a decent hour. I love the proximity of S&S, but I just have a bad taste from previous attempts to contact them. I may change my mind when faced with a 6+ hour round drip though.


----------



## mainshipfred

I'm still torn and hoping to go local. I think I'm just going to wait and see what they all have to offer.


----------



## Ajmassa

Boatboy24 said:


> Gino Pinto and Keystone are about the same drive for me. I'm leaning toward testing out GP this fall. Its a heckuva drive, but may be worth it. And since it appears they open at 8am, I could be home with grapes at a decent hour. I love the proximity of S&S, but I just have a bad taste from previous attempts to contact them. I may change my mind when faced with a 6+ hour round drip though.



Well you know what your getting with Pintos since many of us can vouch. And you’re already familiar with the selection since it essentially mimics Harford’s. 
Keystone on the other hand I haven’t spoken with anyone who’s purchased their fresh grapes— only the frozen must. 
-I’m on their mailing list and they keep us thoroughly updated during the pickup season. 
-I’ve used their lab services and they were great. 
- I’ve done lots of shopping at their mega store
- And I’ve rented equipment with success. 80L bladder press only cost me $35, no down payment, and I had it 1 extra day w/ no extra charge. 
What I mean to say is everything else there is professional and legit I see no reason why their grape services would be any different. I’ll be going to Pintos unless i find a good bulk deal. But I also plan to pick up a few lugs from keystone for a small batch to see how they are.


----------



## Johnd

heatherd said:


> @Johnd I tried their website and it's under construction, but I'll keep them in mind....



Their website is back up, just visited it. Check out the shipping tab, they can group smaller orders together on one truck if you don’t fill one up......


----------



## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> Their website is back up, just visited it. Check out the shipping tab, they can group smaller orders together on one truck if you don’t fill one up......



Thanks for the update. They also say for small orders to contact your nearest local distributor. And then lists all the distributors buying from F. Colavita & Son. Lots of familiar names on that list. 

Fine Vine Wines
Label Peelers
Presque Isle Wines
Collingswood Grape Co 
Keystone Homebrew


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Thanks for the update. They also say for small orders to contact your nearest local distributor. And then lists all the distributors buying from F. Colavita & Son. Lots of familiar names on that list.
> 
> Fine Vine Wines
> Label Peelers
> Presque Isle Wines
> Collingswood Grape Co
> Keystone Homebrew



You might also call them to see if anyone close to you buys their grapes. I found a small winery near me that buys three truckloads a year. Called em up and the owner was happy to let me put my grapes on one of his trucks. Huge score for me. Now, I get to buy a crusher / destemmer......


----------



## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> You might also call them to see if anyone close to you buys their grapes. I found a small winery near me that buys three truckloads a year. Called em up and the owner was happy to let me put my grapes on one of his trucks. Huge score for me. Now, I get to buy a crusher / destemmer......



Congrats! Nice to be able to go right to the source since they supply many of the distributors we use. I’ll be calling for more info as well. 
You saved a lot of travel time. But also more than doubled your crush day time! Even with a legit C/D, it’s a lot of work of flying solo. I can attest. So did you decide your grapes and amounts yet?


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Congrats! Nice to be able to go right to the source since they supply many of the distributors we use. I’ll be calling for more info as well.
> You saved a lot of travel time. But also more than doubled your crush day time! Even with a legit C/D, it’s a lot of work of flying solo. I can attest. So did you decide your grapes and amounts yet?



When I drove to Dallas last year, I used their C/D before I left, into 5 gallon pails, transported home, then loaded fermenters. Now I’ll C/D straight into the fermenters, with only half the drive. 

They don’t have the price list yet, so I haven’t decided, but I’m leaning towards either straight Cab or or Super Tuscan type blend, different yeasts in the fermenters, blended after MLF, enough to fill a 60 gallon Frenchie.


----------



## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> When I drove to Dallas last year, I used their C/D before I left, into 5 gallon pails, transported home, then loaded fermenters. Now I’ll C/D straight into the fermenters, with only half the drive.
> 
> They don’t have the price list yet, so I haven’t decided, but I’m leaning towards either straight Cab or or Super Tuscan type blend, different yeasts in the fermenters, blended after MLF, enough to fill a 60 gallon Frenchie.



Sounds like you got 2 new toys needed for this fall ! Congrats on reaching the promised land my friend.


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Sounds like you got 2 new toys needed for this fall ! Congrats on reaching the promised land my friend.



I’m a little concerned that this may actually open up a new can of worms.....as I see and taste what grapes they’re growing successfully. Though I don’t have a lot of land for growing here, there’s enough to cause trouble.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Gino Pinto and Keystone are about the same drive for me. I'm leaning toward testing out GP this fall. Its a heckuva drive, but may be worth it. And since it appears they open at 8am, I could be home with grapes at a decent hour. I love the proximity of S&S, but I just have a bad taste from previous attempts to contact them. I may change my mind when faced with a 6+ hour round drip though.



I'm leaning toward GP myself. My only concern is having to make more then one trip since we never know what's coming in when.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> I'm leaning toward GP myself. My only concern is having to make more then one trip since we never know what's coming in when.



I've gotten the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that a lot of their stuff comes in all at once. It would definitely be a single trip for me, so that might limit my options.


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> I've gotten the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that a lot of their stuff comes in all at once. It would definitely be a single trip for me, so that might limit my options.



I just know how Harford's came in and would have thought it would be the same.


----------



## mainshipfred

I may have stumbled upon something. When I bought all the carboys the person I bought them off told me about his source which I forgot all about, see link. Evidently you pre order and a refer truck comes to some church parking lot where everyone picks up their order. If I remember correctly the church is no more then 20 miles away. I know nothing else about where the grapes or juice comes from, cost or variety or quality. 

http://www.washingtonwinemakers.org/index.html


----------



## berrycrush

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the bad news earlier. I need to do some exploring. This sucks and may very well put me out of business.


This sucks.


----------



## Kraffty

Don't know if any of these are unknown to you but these are listed distributors from Colavita and sons who I use here in CA.

Vines at Vail Winery | Denver, CO | Patrick (970) 949-1620 | www.vinesatvailwinery.com


Produce World, Ltd. | Noridge, IL | Steve (708) 452-7400 | www.produceworldinc.com


Northeast Produce | Hartford-Plainville, CT | Boston, MA | Patrick, Mike (860) 793-2700 | www.northeastwinemaking.com


L. DiDonato | Newark, NJ | Louie (973) 242-4242


M.A.D. About Wine | Jacksonville, FL | Mike (904) 861-5536 | www.madaboutwinefl.com


F. Nasiff Jr. & Co | Fall River, MA | Steve (800) 727-8818 | www.nasiffproduce.com


Prospero's | Pleasantville, NY | Melissa (914) 769-6252 | www.prosperograpes.com


Label Peelers | Kent, OH | Matt (330) 678-6400 | www.labelpeelers.com


L'Uva Bella Winery | Lowellville, OH 44436-9556 | Ruth (330) 536-6450 | www.luvabella.com


Collingwood | Cleveland, OH | Carl (216) 598-0504


A & P Grape Distributors | N. Massapequa, LI, NY | Peter (516) 520-1061 | www.winemakersnewyork.com


Mayer's Apple Cider | Webster, NY | David (585) 671-1955


Presque Isle | North East, PA 16428 | Randy (814) 728-1314 | www.piwine.com


Robert J. Lucci | Scranton, PA | Robert (570) 689-7379


Fine Vine Wines, LLC | Carrollton, TX | George (972) 323-7921 or (866) 417-1114 | www.finevinewines.com


Keystone Homebrew | Montgomeryville, PA and Bethlehem, PA | Jason (215) 855-0100 | www.keystonehomebrew.com


Rochester Home Wine Makers | Chili, NY 14514 | Joe (585) 315-4730 | [email protected]


The Kunkel Co. | Eden Prairie, MN 55344 | Phil (952) 938-3528 | [email protected]


Catalin Tocilia | Buford, GA 30519 | Catalin (678) 438-9216 | [email protected]


California Wine Grapes | Halifax, Nova Scotia | Luigi (902) 422-0066 


Ital Plus Juice Grapes, Ltd. | Montreal, Canada | Robert (514) 327-0505 | www.italplus.ca


Mondo Foods | Winnipeg, Manitoba | Hugo (204) 453-7722 | www.mondofoods.com


----------



## ceeaton

Kraffty said:


> Don't know if any of these are unknown to you but these are listed distributors from Colavita and sons who I use here in CA.



I want to see an entry like this:

Scotzin Brothers | Lemoyne, PA | Tom/Fran (717) 737-0483 | www.scotzinbros.com

Wishful thinking on my part...


----------



## JuiceMan

For Concord Grape, Pomegranate, Cranberry, Blueberry, Red Raspberry, Strawberry and Tart Cherry Juice Concentrates (no fresh fruit yet), BrownwoodAcres.com is all you need. Offering quarts, cases, and drums. 877.591.3101 ask for Ken.


----------



## ceeaton

Nice thought. Be nice if you had some Cab Sauv, Zinfandel, Petite SIrah, Syrah, Merlot, etc. juices. I have 3 people I can get free concord grapes from, too bad it's not my favorite grape to ferment.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the bad news earlier. I need to do some exploring. This sucks and may very well put me out of business.


Hey Guys

I've been getting grapes from Harford's supplier's supplier for 10+ years. I'm in Harford County Md. I might be able to help you out.
J


----------



## Boatboy24

rgfwinemaker said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> I've been getting grapes from Harford's supplier's supplier for 10+ years. I'm in Harford County Md. I might be able to help you out.
> J



OK, please give us some details.


----------



## jgmann67

rgfwinemaker said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> I've been getting grapes from Harford's supplier's supplier for 10+ years. I'm in Harford County Md. I might be able to help you out.
> J





Boatboy24 said:


> OK, please give us some details.



Yes, do tell!!


----------



## mainshipfred

Third one here showing interest.


----------



## ceeaton

Fourth....


----------



## bluecrab

Fifth...


----------



## cathlab

Catino’s in Mt. Carmel, Pa. Small shop with a big walk-in. Great deals on bottles and supplies also. About 1.5 hrs from New Cumberland Pa. Great selection of grapes and juice.


----------



## heatherd

rgfwinemaker said:


> Hey Guys
> 
> I've been getting grapes from Harford's supplier's supplier for 10+ years. I'm in Harford County Md. I might be able to help you out.
> J


Yes - I would love to keep getting my grapes in Maryland, so I am also interested,


----------



## Ajmassa

@rgfwinemaker — throw out a D tease like that your gonna have em lined up outside your door soon!
Supplier has gotta be a pretty large outfit judging by the the size of 2 joints I know of that they supplied- Harford and Pintos. 
And would need a pretty effing big order to warrant a direct delivery instead of going thru Harford which was right next door. Or ——you knew a guy. And now after a decade of business and Harford leaving everyone up shits creek—- looks like rgfwinemaker has now become “the guy to know”.


----------



## ceeaton

cathlab said:


> Catino’s in Mt. Carmel, Pa. Small shop with a big walk-in. Great deals on bottles and supplies also. About 1.5 hrs from New Cumberland Pa. Great selection of grapes and juice.


I've heard of them, that could be a nice option, I'd have to add about 30 minutes to my trip one way. Do they have a website, or do you just call to order grapes?


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> @rgfwinemaker — throw out a D tease like that your gonna have em lined up outside your door soon!
> Supplier has gotta be a pretty large outfit judging by the the size of 2 joints I know of that they supplied- Harford and Pintos.
> And would need a pretty effing big order to warrant a direct delivery instead of going thru Harford which was right next door. Or ——you knew a guy. And now after a decade of business and Harford leaving everyone up shits creek—- looks like rgfwinemaker has now become “the guy to know”.



Got a bad feeling, dude joins, taunts you lost souls with apples from the forbidden tree, first and only post, then goes radio silent.......better be making your contingency plans.


----------



## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> Got a bad feeling, dude joins, taunts you lost souls with apples from the forbidden tree, first and only post, then goes radio silent.......better be making your contingency plans.



I thought it. But just didn’t wanna day it out loud. 
Just give him a couple more days. It takes time to re-crate Lodi grapes into Paso Robles and Sonoma crates. Lol. 
Though Very possibly a non vocal lurker (there’s much more than we realize!) who saw help needed that he could provide. Prompted him to finally create an account and post. (Just don’t pay up-front!)


----------



## cathlab

ceeaton said:


> I've heard of them, that could be a nice option, I'd have to add about 30 minutes to my trip one way. Do they have a website, or do you just call to order grapes?


----------



## cathlab

ceeaton said:


> I've heard of them, that could be a nice option, I'd have to add about 30 minutes to my trip one way. Do they have a website, or do you just call to order grapes?



No website, just on Facebook, Catino vino


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Got a bad feeling, dude joins, taunts you lost souls with apples from the forbidden tree, first and only post, then goes radio silent.......better be making your contingency plans.



Good catch John, I didn't pick up on him just joining. For me the Harford situation may be a blessing in disguise by forcing me to find other sources. I now have at least 3 different local vineyards and a local club providing grapes. Plus there is S&S which is much closer then Harford and that is as of now.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Good catch John, I didn't pick up on him just joining. For me the Harford situation may be a blessing in disguise by forcing me to find other sources. I now have at least 3 different local vineyards and a local club providing grapes. Plus there is S&S which is much closer then Harford and that is as of now.



Certainly hope it ends up working out, could cut costs substantially by knocking out two middle men in the mix. If not, seems that you guys have quite a few really good options. From what I’ve been reading / hearing, looks like harvest numbers are going to be reasonable, with good growing conditions, that could all change quickly with a heat wave, rain pattern, etc., keeping my fingers crossed.......


----------



## Mac60

Boatboy24 said:


> Gino Pinto and Keystone are about the same drive for me. I'm leaning toward testing out GP this fall. Its a heckuva drive, but may be worth it. And since it appears they open at 8am, I could be home with grapes at a decent hour. I love the proximity of S&S, but I just have a bad taste from previous attempts to contact them. I may change my mind when faced with a 6+ hour round drip though.


Jim,
I got my grapes from Gino Pinto, last year very satisfied I will be going back this year, but I will be stepping up my production a bit did 36 36lbs lugs looking to do 48 this year Zins, Cab, Barbera, Alicante, Sangiovese. The Cab & San was from Suisun valley the Zin was old vine from Lodi,
Mike
View attachment 50266
View attachment 50266


----------



## pgentile

Reminder, any of you all making the trek to Gino Pinto's, Procacci Bros or Keystone due to Harford situation, you are welcome to stop by and rest or stay overnight at my house if making it a two day trip is easier. I can sleep up to four. One extra bedroom and a pull out couch. I'm 10 min from Procacci. 

But at the very least anyone going to these places, please let me know when you are going to be there, if I can I will make a visit at the same time. It would be cool to meet more people from this site. 

I think Ajmassa already stated some of this, but of the three place mentioned above.

Procacci Bros will be the easiest to get to. It's right off 95 and 76 tucked in an industrial park behind the stadiums. If an Eagles game or Phillies game is going there can be a lot of traffic. But it's still easy to get in an out. Draw back here is they are first come first serve, but as long as you are there the first two weeks of grapes arriving you should be fine getting anything you want. Also Procacci Bros, has a good vibe, big barrel of last years zin/merlot blend to taste, free Italian meats, cheeses and bread to go along with it. Can hang and chill as long as you like. A few table and chairs. Wine making equipment. Lenny will open a bottle brought in by customers sometimes.

Gino Pinto's is in Hammonton New Jersey, middle of the Atlantic City Expressway then 15 minutes off the expressway. Good service and product but nothing to sample. Wine making equipment showroom. Italian food imports to purchase. Very good stuff.

Depending on were you are coming from Keystone could be the hardest to get to. Western PA and North Jersey travelers it' could be the better choice. It's located off the PA Turnpike then Route 309. I never enjoy going to anything off 309. Weekdays the PA turnpike is not fun during commuting hours. I've never been there, but hear nothing but good things. They have beer stuff too.

Good luck all.


----------



## Boatboy24

Mac60 said:


> Jim,
> I got my grapes from Gino Pinto, last year very satisfied I will be going back this year, but I will be stepping up my production a bit did 36 36lbs lugs looking to do 48 this year Zins, Cab, Barbera, Alicante, Sangiovese. The Cab & San was from Suisun valley the Zin was old vine from Lodi,
> Mike



Thanks! I see you got some Lanza grapes. I've been getting them from Harford the last few years and have been very happy with them. For me, that's a known entity and has me leaning toward GP's. I think they also get Washington grapes, which I've been wanting to do.


----------



## mainshipfred

pgentile said:


> Reminder, any of you all making the trek to Gino Pinto's, Procacci Bros or Keystone due to Harford situation, you are welcome to stop by and rest or stay overnight at my house if making it a two day trip is easier. I can sleep up to four. One extra bedroom and a pull out couch. I'm 10 min from Procacci.
> 
> But at the very least anyone going to these places, please let me know when you are going to be there, if I can I will make a visit at the same time. It would be cool to meet more people from this site.
> 
> I think Ajmassa already stated some of this, but of the three place mentioned above.
> 
> Procacci Bros will be the easiest to get to. It's right off 95 and 76 tucked in an industrial park behind the stadiums. If an Eagles game or Phillies game is going there can be a lot of traffic. But it's still easy to get in an out. Draw back here is they are first come first serve, but as long as you are there the first two weeks of grapes arriving you should be fine getting anything you want. Also Procacci Bros, has a good vibe, big barrel of last years zin/merlot blend to taste, free Italian meats, cheeses and bread to go along with it. Can hang and chill as long as you like. A few table and chairs. Wine making equipment. Lenny will open a bottle brought in by customers sometimes.
> 
> Gino Pinto's is in Hammonton New Jersey, middle of the Atlantic City Expressway then 15 minutes off the expressway. Good service and product but nothing to sample. Wine making equipment showroom. Italian food imports to purchase. Very good stuff.
> 
> Depending on were you are coming from Keystone could be the hardest to get to. Western PA and North Jersey travelers it' could be the better choice. It's located off the PA Turnpike then Route 309. I never enjoy going to anything off 309. Weekdays the PA turnpike is not fun during commuting hours. I've never been there, but hear nothing but good things. They have beer stuff too.
> 
> Good luck all.



Very nice offer Paul. More then likely I'll be staying down my way. Will see you in a couple week or so. The barrels arrived in Norfolk yesterday. Still have 2 25 and 30 liter left if anyone wants one


----------



## rgfwinemaker

jgmann67 said:


> It’s even shorter for me. Under 2 hours. Guessing this is where we land in the fall.



Anyone interested in picking up grapes in either Harford county Md or Jessup? I preorder high quality grapes and get them delivered. I'd be willing to piggy back orders to help put.


----------



## Ajmassa

Pintos many options are blessing and a curse! I’m eying up the Cab Sav clone 169 from L.M.P. Vineyards, Suisun Valley. Read many positive experiences with em. 
But also available are Wash. State Rattlesnake Hill, Lanza vineyards and Paso Robles cabs all similarly priced. 
Any insight from previous vintages please don’t hesitate. Basically I’m blindly shooting darts. Clone 169 is at least unique and I can find plenty of info from winemakers online. Lanza and Paso Robles cabs no clue. 
But maybe acid level would be much more ideal in Wash St grapes. More north/later harvest. But given the similar prices maybe this is not a safe assumption. 
I plan to look into these more. Mainly the Lanza 169 vs Wash Rattlesnake.


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Pintos many options are blessing and a curse! I’m eying up the Cab Sav clone 169 from L.M.P. Vineyards, Suisun Valley. Read many positive experiences with em.
> But also available are Wash. State Rattlesnake Hill, Lanza vineyards and Paso Robles cabs all similarly priced.
> Any insight from previous vintages please don’t hesitate. Basically I’m blindly shooting darts. Clone 169 is at least unique and I can find plenty of info from winemakers online. Lanza and Paso Robles cabs no clue.
> But maybe acid level would be much more ideal in Wash St grapes. More north/later harvest. But given the similar prices maybe this is not a safe assumption.
> I plan to look into these more. Mainly the Lanza 169 vs Wash Rattlesnake.



I’ve got 60 bottles of the Clone 169 Cab, and another 30 of it blended with Koch Cab. All will be two years old this fall, are quite good now, and promising better times ahead.


----------



## pgentile

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Pintos many options are blessing and a curse! I’m eying up the Cab Sav clone 169 from L.M.P. Vineyards, Suisun Valley. Read many positive experiences with em.
> But also available are Wash. State Rattlesnake Hill, Lanza vineyards and Paso Robles cabs all similarly priced.
> Any insight from previous vintages please don’t hesitate. Basically I’m blindly shooting darts. Clone 169 is at least unique and I can find plenty of info from winemakers online. Lanza and Paso Robles cabs no clue.
> But maybe acid level would be much more ideal in Wash St grapes. More north/later harvest. But given the similar prices maybe this is not a safe assumption.
> I plan to look into these more. Mainly the Lanza 169 vs Wash Rattlesnake.


 
Interested in all those myself. Going to get the premium zin from Procacci for the 3rd year in a row, start to build a vertical. Then I'm thinking of getting two other batches from Gino's. I like all the sexy grape choices you list, might choose one or two of those. But thinking and leaning more towards an Alicante batch and a Sangiovese batch.


----------



## pgentile

Johnd said:


> I’ve got 60 bottles of the Clone 169 Cab, and another 30 of it blended with Koch Cab. All will be two years old this fall, are quite good now, and promising better times ahead.



I hope to be there someday with aging, the best I have done so far is I got 10 gallons of last years red zin to one year in bulk. Only have 6 bottles of my 2016 left. But it's starting to get where I have so much in glass aging from my procrastination and production amount is out pacing my early consumption tendencies.


----------



## Johnd

pgentile said:


> I hope to be there someday with aging, the best I have done so far is I got 10 gallons of last years red zin to one year in bulk. Only have 6 bottles of my 2016 left. But it's starting to get where I have so much in glass aging from my procrastination and production amount is out pacing my early consumption tendencies.



Just keep making wine, it'll catch up with you for sure. When you start getting some of your wines from grapes over the 2 and 3 year humps and older, you'll be kicking yourself in the head for drinking them early, but it's just part of the gig.....


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Just keep making wine, it'll catch up with you for sure. When you start getting some of your wines from grapes over the 2 and 3 year humps and older, you'll be kicking yourself in the head for drinking them early, but it's just part of the gig.....



I truly don't think Paul is going to have a problem letting his wine age at the rate he is going.


----------



## ceeaton

pgentile said:


> I hope to be there someday with aging, the best I have done so far is I got 10 gallons of last years red zin to one year in bulk. Only have 6 bottles of my 2016 left. But it's starting to get where I have so much in glass aging from my procrastination and production amount is out pacing my early consumption tendencies.


You'll get there, just keep makin' it like @Johnd said. I've got only four batches that are less than a year old in the carboy. The other eight or so are from 14 to 28 months. Procrastination works wonders. If you are too lazy to rack every three months, make sure you add some Kmeta to buy you another three months of procrastination. I usually only do that when my sediment after three months is only the light wispy stuff.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Boatboy24 said:


> OK, please give us some details.


Sorry for the delay
I have access to the same grapes, juices and more that Harford had. Mostly Lanza but Napa etc too. I am located in Harford county. I have been getting several tons delivered to me for 10+ yrs. I am willing to explore the possibility of expanding my order to accommodate your needs. Tell me what you're looking for and how much. Sure the prices will be the same or close to what Harford was charging. I need to determine how much interest and how many tons of grapes to see if I need to get some temporary space to handle delivery. How did you all receive your grapes? Box trucks?, pick ups? Palletized or separate? Did you have them crush for you? I'm not sure if I want to get into that but I could. Let me know If I'm gonna help I gotta get moving on logistics, space, and orders. Thx


----------



## rgfwinemaker

rgfwinemaker said:


> Sorry for the delay
> I have access to the same grapes, juices and more that Harford had. Mostly Lanza but Napa etc too. I am located in Harford county. I have been getting several tons delivered to me for 10+ yrs. I am willing to explore the possibility of expanding my order to accommodate your needs. Tell me what you're looking for and how much. Sure the prices will be the same or close to what Harford was charging. I need to determine how much interest and how many tons of grapes to see if I need to get some temporary space to handle delivery. How did you all receive your grapes? Box trucks?, pick ups? Palletized or separate? Did you have them crush for you? I'm not sure if I want to get into that but I could. Let me know If I'm gonna help I gotta get moving on logistics, space, and orders. Thx


Also let me know if Jessup md is a better location. I might be able to distribute from there.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Johnd said:


> Got a bad feeling, dude joins, taunts you lost souls with apples from the forbidden tree, first and only post, then goes radio silent.......better be making your contingency plans.


Sorry if it seemed like a tease but I am serious. I was just traveling for a few days and couldn't get back to the thread. I run a wine making club in Harford County. I am getting high quality suisun and Napa valley grapes delivered to me this fall. If I can help you guys out id be glad to. Just let me know. Thx


----------



## Ajmassa

pgentile said:


> Interested in all those myself. Going to get the premium zin from Procacci for the 3rd year in a row, start to build a vertical. Then I'm thinking of getting two other batches from Gino's. I like all the sexy grape choices you list, might choose one or two of those. But thinking and leaning more towards an Alicante batch and a Sangiovese batch.



Yeah I like throwing in 1 or 2 small batches for fun as well. I’m thinking of grabbing 3 lugs in south Philly to make my family’s old D*** red recipe. 2 Muscat and 1 Alicante. (Blended after fermentation)
Your Alicante (almost black little tannin) and Sangio (light/more tannin) ideas are cool. Kinda both extremes. I’ve read Alicante is the only grape with actual red juice in the berry too. Perfect for adding color w/o changing flavor profile, but I’ve never had it straight. 
And my Sangiovese from Procaccci last fall (both Regina & pia) was extremely light. At 50% of my Tuscan blend the wine is lighter than I hoped, in spite of Cab and Merlot making up the other half. But interestingly enough the wine is now becoming quite enjoyable. Hoping time in a new frenchie will compliment this easy drinker well.


----------



## Boatboy24

rgfwinemaker said:


> Sorry if it seemed like a tease but I am serious. I was just traveling for a few days and couldn't get back to the thread. I run a wine making club in Harford County. I am getting high quality suisun and Napa valley grapes delivered to me this fall. If I can help you guys out id be glad to. Just let me know. Thx



Do you have a website? Any details on how/when you order?


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Boatboy24 said:


> Do you have a website? Any details on how/when you order?


Our Wine club had a website but now just a facebook page. WineCrafters. I am working on a web page for the grapes since that may be more of a commercial venture .I am currently a retail account for grapes with the supplier's supplier and would have to become wholesale if I wanted to make it into a commercial venture. Regardless I can piggy back orders on my shipment (s) without turning it into a business. I plan on ordering my grapes soon. I will really need to quickly determine what additional grapes I need to order if we're going to do this. I am working on getting pricing for my grapes from the supplier. Once I have that I will let you know.what they are. How many lugs did you plan on getting this year(roughly)? How many different varietals?


----------



## Johnd

rgfwinemaker said:


> Sorry if it seemed like a tease but I am serious. I was just traveling for a few days and couldn't get back to the thread. I run a wine making club in Harford County. I am getting high quality suisun and Napa valley grapes delivered to me this fall. If I can help you guys out id be glad to. Just let me know. Thx



Glad you are back, seemed like a bunch of folks were interested in your offer, I humbly stand corrected. Just curious, who do you get your grapes delivered from?


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Johnd said:


> Glad you are back, seemed like a bunch of folks were interested in your offer, I humbly stand corrected. Just curious, who do you get your grapes delivered from?


No worries I would probably felt the same way. I have a relationship with Lanza out of Suisun Valley and one of his partners. i am seriously looking at making grape distribution a real venture if there's demand but in the meantime I can piggy back orders if that helps.


----------



## Johnd

rgfwinemaker said:


> No worries I would probably felt the same way. I have a relationship with Lanza out of Suisun Valley and one of his partners. i am seriously looking at making grape distribution a real venture if there's demand but in the meantime I can piggy back orders if that helps.



They have pretty good stuff, I've used it several times in the past, as many of the folks here have. I'm getting my grapes this year from Colavita, a winery near me brings in several refer trucks during harvest and my stuff will be loaded in with theirs.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Johnd said:


> They have pretty good stuff, I've used it several times in the past, as many of the folks here have. I'm getting my grapes this year from Colavita, a winery near me brings in several refer trucks during harvest and my stuff will be loaded in with theirs.


Nice sounds good


----------



## rgfwinemaker

bluecrab said:


> Fifth...


So how many lugs (roughly) are each of you looking for this year? And how many different varietals? I'm chasing pricing now. Who wants me to look into it for you? Once we know pricing we can nail down orders. Let me know thx


----------



## jgmann67

I was thinking of doing 6 lugs (at 36lb each) of zin. If someone is thinking the same thing - 1/4 ton might be better/cheaper.


----------



## Boatboy24

I was thinking of going WA grapes this year. But if we're talking Lanza, I'd probably do Zin, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Petite Sirah. 3 lugs each. I need to check w/ my 'partner' to confirm.


----------



## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> I was thinking of going WA grapes this year. But if we're talking Lanza, I'd probably do Zin, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Petite Sirah. 3 lugs each. I need to check w/ my 'partner' to confirm.



If you decide to do some cab and they are offering the Clone 169 or Koch Vineyards Cab, spend a few extra bucks, they're both fabulous...........


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Johnd said:


> If you decide to do some cab and they are offering the Clone 169 or Koch Vineyards Cab, spend a few extra bucks, they're both fabulous...........


Agreed! Been making both since they became available 6-7 yrs+ now. Getting very expensive but FABULOUS wine.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Boatboy24 said:


> I was thinking of going WA grapes this year. But if we're talking Lanza, I'd probably do Zin, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Petite Sirah. 3 lugs each. I need to check w/ my 'partner' to confirm.


Yeah Jim that doesn't sound like it will present much of problem to piggy back. Let me get my guys to commit to prices and I'll let you know. You can decide then.


----------



## Boatboy24

Talked to my partner (Dad). Wants to repeat 2015: Zin, Cab, Syrah and Petite Sirah - they were all from Lanza/Suisun.


----------



## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> Talked to my partner (Dad). Wants to repeat 2015: Zin, Cab, Syrah and Petite Sirah - they were all from Lanza/Suisun.



Can’t really go wrong with those from Lanza, their stuff is quite good.


----------



## bluecrab

rgfwinemaker said:


> So how many lugs (roughly) are each of you looking for this year? And how many different varietals? I'm chasing pricing now. Who wants me to look into it for you? Once we know pricing we can nail down orders. Let me know thx



I was thinking 6 lugs of Sangiovese, 6 lugs of Malbec, and 3 lugs of Cabernet Sauvignon.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

bluecrab said:


> I was thinking 6 lugs of Sangiovese, 6 lugs of Malbec, and 3 lugs of Cabernet Sauvignon.


Cool all sounds very doable Lanza has great product. I'll check on their pricing and let y'all know. If anyone else wants to piggy back please let me know what you're looking for ASAP. Thx


----------



## mainshipfred

I looked on the Facebook page but couldn't find much on what is being offered. Is there something I missed?


----------



## Ajmassa

mainshipfred said:


> I looked on the Facebook page but couldn't find much on what is being offered. Is there something I missed?



Facebook page for who exactly?
Sounds like the back door deal with Harford’s old supplier is the same joint that supplies Pintos. On the phone Pintos told me grapes were about a week away from being posted at this point- but not to expect much change from last few years. 
Not sure how many of these apply to rgfwinemaker, but here is last year’s menu again.


----------



## mainshipfred

I think his facebook page is Winecrafters but not much there as far as I can tell. Still waiting on prices from the club near me. But the Lanza whites were around $40.00 which I thought was pretty reasonable. All my local vineyard sources are the same $1.25 to $1.50 /lb but they are fresh picked grapes.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Facebook page for who exactly?
> Sounds like the back door deal with Harford’s old supplier is the same joint that supplies Pintos. On the phone Pintos told me grapes were about a week away from being posted at this point- but not to expect much change from last few years.
> Not sure how many of these apply to rgfwinemaker, but here is last year’s menu again. View attachment 50367
> View attachment 50368
> View attachment 50369
> View attachment 50370
> View attachment 50371
> View attachment 50372


https://shib.idm.umd.edu/shibboleth...5F6FC38F74356FF26A5D4D73763C.0?execution=e1s1
FYI our Facebook page is for our wine club only. It is a private club( albeit expanding with new members)Nothing regarding grape pricing as we made wine as a group. Website for grapes and supplies will come should this turn into a commercial venture. 
FYI My relationship preceded Harford's grape delivery and custom crush adventure so that's why I have access. I have received the same message on grape timing. Whites and Central Valley start next week. Suisun and Napa etc are expected late sept early oct. I however have been warned that prices might go up especially for clone 169 and Koch ranch cabs. We'll know more in about a week hopefully. Again I am considering grape distribution as a going concern but only if there seems to be demand in the meantime I'm trying to help out those in need by piggy backing orders with mine. FYI I am also a certified winemaker from UC Davis should y'all have any issues or questions that I might be able to help you with. Again anyone who needs grapes who used to get them from Harford pls let me know what your looking for and how much. So I can chase them for you. Thx


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Facebook page for who exactly?
> Sounds like the back door deal with Harford’s old supplier is the same joint that supplies Pintos. On the phone Pintos told me grapes were about a week away from being posted at this point- but not to expect much change from last few years.
> Not sure how many of these apply to rgfwinemaker, but here is last year’s menu again. View attachment 50367
> View attachment 50368
> View attachment 50369
> View attachment 50370
> View attachment 50371
> View attachment 50372


Does anyone have Harford's price list from last year? If not I guess I can get it from Kevin.


----------



## jgmann67

Anything new on this front? I’m thinking I need to commit to something soon.


----------



## mainshipfred

jgmann67 said:


> Anything new on this front? I’m thinking I need to commit to something soon.



Across the board doesn't it seem like pricing is taking a bit longer to get? I think there is still time if we get the pricing this week.


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Across the board doesn't it seem like pricing is taking a bit longer to get? I think there is still time if we get the pricing this week.



It does seem to be taking longer, but maybe we've been spoiled by Harford. Also, a lot of other places don't take preorders, so maybe Harford was doing that to ensure they didn't overbuy.


----------



## rgfwinemaker

Hey guys
I finally have pricing from my guy for anyone who's interested in piggy backing on my order here in Harford county MD. 
Please reach out to me via email [email protected] and I'll share the numbers I have. I will be finalizing my order in a day or two so if you're interested please let me know 
Thx 
J


----------



## mainshipfred

rgfwinemaker said:


> Hey guys
> I finally have pricing from my guy for anyone who's interested in piggy backing on my order here in Harford county MD.
> Please reach out to me via email [email protected] and I'll share the numbers I have. I will be finalizing my order in a day or two so if you're interested please let me know
> Thx
> J



I think most of us have already placed our orders. Would be nice to see your pricing though. Why don't you post it so we all have it. I could be interested in another 2 batches if the price and grapes were right.


----------



## heatherd

mainshipfred said:


> I think most of us have already placed our orders. Would be nice to see your pricing though. Why don't you post it so we all have it. I could be interested in another 2 batches if the price and grapes were right.


Fred,
Not surprised you’re biting - you mentioned at the last meetup that you were using a few sources. [emoji6]. What are you making this season and from where?


----------



## mainshipfred

heatherd said:


> Fred,
> Not surprised you’re biting - you mentioned at the last meetup that you were using a few sources. [emoji6]. What are you making this season and from where?



Paul picked me up 4 lugs of premium OVZ and Syrah from Procacci and this Saturday I'm getting from Washington Winemakers 3 Sauv Blanc, 3 Petite Sirah, 3 Tourigo and 4 Tempranillo. My local Tannat and Norton are not likely. I was considering getting a juice bucket of something to use my skins with and maybe one other varietal from S&S to try them out. But this came up and peaked my curiosity.


----------



## CK55

mainshipfred said:


> Paul picked me up 4 lugs of premium OVZ and Syrah from Procacci and this Saturday I'm getting from Washington Winemakers 3 Sauv Blanc, 3 Petite Sirah, 3 Tourigo and 4 Tempranillo. My local Tannat and Norton are not likely. I was considering getting a juice bucket of something to use my skins with and maybe one other varietal from S&S to try them out. But this came up and peaked my curiosity.


Do you mean Touriga as i couldnt find a grape called tourigo. Just wanted to ask.


----------



## mainshipfred

heatherd said:


> Fred,
> Not surprised you’re biting - you mentioned at the last meetup that you were using a few sources. [emoji6]. What are you making this season and from where?



I have a slight dilema though. From the spring I have 8 gallons of grape Cab, 7 Malbec and Carmenere and 6.5 Merlot plus 5 gallons of Cab juice with skins for whatever I have to blend it with to fill barrels and was considering keeping one more 25 and 30 liter barrels. Which would be fine if I were doing spring wines next year but the trip to Hungary my barrel company is sponsoring will fall too close to the spring grapes coming in. So if I keep the barrels and don't do the spring grapes I'll have to do a few more batches this fall to keep them full.


----------



## Boatboy24

So, you're doing the Hungary trip?


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> So, you're doing the Hungary trip?



Not 100% yet, can't tell you why. Sworn to secrecy.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> Not 100% yet, can't tell you why. Sworn to secrecy.


I bet it has something to do with national security...


----------



## mainshipfred

ceeaton said:


> I bet it has something to do with national security...



It's a happy thing. Silly why I can't say yet.


----------



## Johnd

Daughter or daughter in law is pregnant, doesn’t want to announce til the second trimester, Fred’s sworn to secrecy. Wife wants to be here for the birth, not in Hungary.


----------



## Boatboy24

Fred's selling his company and buying a Hungarian barrel company. Too early to release details to the press, as the markets may go bonkers.


----------



## pgentile

Actually Fred has been the top seller of a Hungarian barrel pyramid scheme. He got in early and rode the barrel wave. Hawking to all us unsuspecting winemakingtalk sheep and gathering disciples for his downstream revenue.

My bet is he's going over to lead their barrel selling seminar on up-selling rubes on bigger barrels.

Or I could be wrong.


----------



## jgmann67

Fred is marketing a series of new microwave meals in Eastern European nations and is close to signing a multi-million dollar deal. 

The ad campaign includes a song, "How do you handle a Hungary Man?"


----------



## ibglowin




----------



## heatherd

Love the speculation!!


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Daughter or daughter in law is pregnant, doesn’t want to announce til the second trimester, Fred’s sworn to secrecy. Wife wants to be here for the birth, not in Hungary.



You don't know how hard it was not to PM you. I had to check for bugs to see if you had some kind of listening device in my house. You and/or your wife couldn't have hit it more squarely on the head. It's my daughter in law and it's twins and the second trimester started today. First time for us.


----------



## Boatboy24

Twins? Awesome! Congrats Grandpa!


----------



## mainshipfred

Boatboy24 said:


> Twins? Awesome! Congrats Grandpa!



Thanks, she is due in April. Unfortunately they live in San Diego.


----------



## ceeaton

mainshipfred said:


> Thanks, she is due in April. Unfortunately they live in San Diego.


And what is the problem? I heard they have things called planes that fly up in the sky (oh s#@%t, now I've got Pink Floyd _Blue Sky_ in my head) and can get you there pretty quickly (at least faster than walking). Don't you have cash laying around everywhere now that you got rid of the money sink called a boat?

BTW, congratulations Grandpa! I'm sure your wife will be ecstatic once they pop out (and she can stop worrying).


----------



## Boatboy24

mainshipfred said:


> Thanks, she is due in April. Unfortunately they live in San Diego.



There are far worse places to visit.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> You don't know how hard it was not to PM you. I had to check for bugs to see if you had some kind of listening device in my house. You and/or your wife couldn't have hit it more squarely on the head. It's my daughter in law and it's twins and the second trimester started today. First time for us.



Ha!!! It’s the only thing that fit the description you gave, congratulations on first time double granfatherhood!!!


----------



## CK55

Boatboy24 said:


> There are far worse places to visit.


San Francisco lol cause its all hippies and drug addicts.


----------



## jgmann67

I’m drinking my Luna right now, named “Goodbye Blue Sky”. 

Congratulations!!!


----------



## sour_grapes

CK55 said:


> San Francisco lol cause its all hippies and drug addicts.



You say that like it's a bad thing.... 

I am sitting in the SFO airport right now after a lovely visit.


----------



## Ajmassa

sour_grapes said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing....
> 
> I am sitting in the SFO airport right now after a lovely visit.



Went to Frisco with some buddies a long while ago for an Eagles game in Oakland. Stayed in SF. Really was such an amazing city. 
Most of us were big Dead fans and wanted to check out Haight Asbury. It was not exactly what we had anticipated. If you’ve been you know what I’m sayin. We ended up in this seedy bar and met a group of girls. I’d say we picked them up but I’m pretty sure they picked us up. To this day I swear they were vampires. In the name of decency (and forum rules) I’ll refrain from the rest of the story!

**but more importantly- Fred congrats on the recent news. Might have to a few less batches to spoil the new grandchild soon!


----------



## jgmann67

One of my favorite cities... so much to do.


----------

