# Why pectinase? Why sulfite? Proportions?



## Hamsterflu (Mar 11, 2010)

I was sold a little jar of pectinase powder to put in my carboy with the grape juice and let it sit for a day before adding yeast. Well, instead of just grape juice I also added apple juice. I was also sold Acid Blend powder, and Yeast Nutrient. I thought my carboy was six gallons so I added the powders for the right amount for six gallons, but then found out when I was filling it that it is five gallons up to where it begins to narrow at the top. Will that hurt anything that I added enough Pectinase (which seemed to clump into a ball before sinking), Acid Blend, and Yeast Nutrient for six gallons even though its only five gallons? 
I made a batch before not knowing what I was doing and added Tablespoons of Potassium bisulfite to the finished wine. I tried some for the first time and I almost suffocated from my lungs filling with fluid and me wheezing. I was told to throw that away. I know now that sulfites can kill me. 
So, why do people use Potassium bisulfite instead of Bleach to sanitize their equipment? And is there asnything else I can use so it doesn't kill me if I taste some of it? 
Also, why use Pectinase in grape juice wine? Will my adding apple juice to it affect anything? Did I really need to add the Pectinase to the juice and then wait a day before I add the yeast? I still haven't added the yeast yet. 
Do I sprinkle the yeast on the top of the juice or do I add it to water and dump that in there? I don't want to contaminate the juice. I hope I haven't contaminated it already. 
Also, that awful, poisonous batch of wine I made had a pH of 3... or was it 2.5... well, anyway, it was one or the other using litmus paper. What is the pH of wine supposed to be?


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## Green Mountains (Mar 11, 2010)

I see here some answers to some of my questions that I had in your other thread. You have too many threads going for the same sort of questions. You're spreading yourself too wide for this group to have a good chance of answering your questions properly.


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## Tom (Mar 11, 2010)

You are trying to make wine by the seat of your pants. Get a book on beginners winemaking.
Like said above you have the same questions on many threads. You only need one to get an answer. Just put in in the proper thread.


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## rawlus (Mar 11, 2010)

based upon the 4 posts by the poster i am going to go out on a limb here and say these "questions" are not legitimate questions but trolling posts.

someone who doesn't drink and is allergic to sulfites doesn't decide one day to make kitchen sink wine from random ingredients, ignoring any recipe, avoiding any research, and then forget about it for over a year, watch the wine turn brown, then drink a glassful before bed, then, inquire about making lipton tea wine, which they also apparently do not like. then never return to any of the threads they posted.

its a little too provocative for me to believe in its authenticity.


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## Torch404 (Mar 11, 2010)

What Tom Said:FIRST

But here is what I can answer.

on putting five gallons of stuff in a 6 gal car boy...don't worry you'll be fine. You might get a very strong ferment from the extra nutrient so make sure you have plenty of head space. The extra acid blend might make it a little acidic but probably not too noticeable. 

I have used bleach, it works but it is not recommended because even a tiny amount not getting rinsed off of your equipment will cause a "cork taint" and a musty bad flavor.

Adding apple juice will not matter. The pectin enzyme is necessary as a pectin haze can still develop even with juice. You do need to give the Pectin Enzyme at least 12 hour to work as it does not function during fermentation.

Given the difficulties with rehydrating yeast, just sprinkling it on top would be best. 

good luck, keep reading, I'd try to keep it simpler rather then super complex at first.


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## Julie (Mar 11, 2010)

rawlus said:


> based upon the 4 posts by the poster i am going to go out on a limb here and say these "questions" are not legitimate questions but trolling posts.
> 
> someone who doesn't drink and is allergic to sulfites doesn't decide one day to make kitchen sink wine from random ingredients, ignoring any recipe, avoiding any research, and then forget about it for over a year, watch the wine turn brown, then drink a glassful before bed, then, inquire about making lipton tea wine, which they also apparently do not like. then never return to any of the threads they posted.
> 
> its a little too provocative for me to believe in its authenticity.



Rawlus,

I agree


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## Hamsterflu (Mar 12, 2010)

*please stop being hostile to me!*



Julie said:


> Rawlus,
> 
> I agree



I have been here TWO DAYS and its amazing how hostile people are to me because I AM COMPLETELY IGNORANT ON WINEMAKING!!!     
I have been completely honest in my description of myself and what I have done. 
Everything I have said is true. I have not tried to hide anything. 
I went to the "Beginners Area" BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING.  
And I am being ridiculed for having questions. LOTS of questions. Because I am enthusiastic about it *right now*. Whether I will be in a month I couldn't say, that is just how I am. 
If Experts won't answer the questions of those who don't know what they are doing, *LIKE ME*, then people like me will continue to not know what they are doing or why people do it. 
All I can do is listen to ANYONE who will answer my questions. 
Please forgive me for being clueless, because I am....


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## Hamsterflu (Mar 12, 2010)

Green Mountains said:


> I see here some answers to some of my questions that I had in your other thread. You have too many threads going for the same sort of questions. You're spreading yourself too wide for this group to have a good chance of answering your questions properly.



I'm sorry, I just have sooooo many questions that they just come spilling out of me, and I'm not sure what to explain or not mention at all. Its a mess....


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## Hamsterflu (Mar 12, 2010)

Tom said:


> You are trying to make wine by the seat of your pants. Get a book on beginners winemaking.
> Like said above you have the same questions on many threads. You only need one to get an answer. Just put in in the proper thread.



Well, okay. I just thought that having real people who make wine all the time would be better than trying to do something from a book. I have LOTS of questions and no knowledge, so thought this would be a good place to find out answers.


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## Hamsterflu (Mar 12, 2010)

Torch404 said:


> What Tom Said:FIRST
> 
> But here is what I can answer.
> 
> ...



Oh nooooo..... I had already soaked my carboy (that's what the giant glass bottle is called, right?) with bleach overnight and then rinsed it out fairly well I guess, and then added the juice and pectinase and everything and let it sit for 24 hours. The only thing I noticed that was different about the juice was that when I agitated it the bubbles didn't form a lasting foam but just burst. Then I added a package of yeast (Red Star Premiere Cuve'e) to 1/4 cup of warm water with a tiny bit of sugar and a few drops of grape juice to rehydrate it. The granules seemed to swell up, whihc I thought was a good thing. I let it sit about five minutes and then added some of the juice from the carboy to it and let it sit a few minutes and then dumped it into the carboy and swirled it around. It didn't seem to do anything like bakers yeast would do but I went to bed and hoped to see something when I got up. There seemed to be some yeast floating near the top in granules but it wasn't bubbling or anything. I wasn't sure what to do, the yeast seemed to be dead. Well, instead of the fermentation lock I covered it with a few layers of paper napkins secured with a rubber band so maybe any sulfite could get out if that was what was killing it, and I think yeast needs oxygen to grow at first so that could get in. I went to bed and hoped for the best. When I got up the yeast still wasn't doing anything but floating in granules. I swirled it around some and went and got dressed and thought about it. I had one other packet of yeast, same kind, so decided to open the carboy and sprinkle it in. What could it hurt, right? So I did that and put the napkins back on top. I went to look at something else and then came back and it -seemed- like maybe these new granules might be fizzing just a tiny bit. Great! Maybe. So I swirled it around and they came back up to the top, maybe a tiny fizzy. That looked good. Then I went to work. I have not gone home yet, but I hope to see it fermenting when I get there. But if bleach damages thing then I might end up with funky wine again. Oh well, it will be interesting anyway, I guess.


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## Torch404 (Mar 12, 2010)

As long as you rinsed the bleach off really well it shouldn't be a problem. Once it's all done if you do get the cork taint you can try submerging saran wrap into the wine to remove some of the chemicals responsible. As for the yeast you should be fine sometimes it takes a couple of days to see the bubbling action.

Sorry you had such a rough start here. A lot of people come on these wine making forums and ask all sorts of bizarre questions not really looking for an answer (trolling). One guy recently put the same set of posts on 6 message boards and never came back for the answer on any of the boards. 

We really are a nice bunch of folks who are more then happy to help you learn about making wine.  Maybe just a little defensive about time wasters. Stick it out, check out Jack Keller's site http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/ it will give you plenty to chew on and we can help sort out anything confusing.


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## Slyder73 (Mar 12, 2010)

Torch404 said:


> As long as you rinsed the bleach off really well it shouldn't be a problem. Once it's all done if you do get the cork taint you can try submerging saran wrap into the wine to remove some of the chemicals responsible..



This caught my attention. What interraction happens with the saran wrap when it goes into the wine? You learn something new everyday.


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## Torch404 (Mar 12, 2010)

I've only read about it but apparently the chemical that makes the corked flavor is more attracted to saran wrap then the wine. The method I read was take a big bowl place the wrap in bowl and slowly pour the wine over it. After a bit remove the saran wrap and the bad flavor too. Hopefully enjoy wine!


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## Runningwolf (Mar 12, 2010)

Hamster~ is your school project done yet. Did you get enough to write about, or are you just bored to death making jail house rot.


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## Hamsterflu (Mar 13, 2010)

Runningwolf said:


> Hamster~ is your school project done yet. Did you get enough to write about, or are you just bored to death making jail house rot.



Ha. 
No school project. No jail house. Not writing anything. 
Just me experimenting to interest myself.


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## Hamsterflu (Mar 13, 2010)

Torch404 said:


> As long as you rinsed the bleach off really well it shouldn't be a problem. Once it's all done if you do get the cork taint you can try submerging saran wrap into the wine to remove some of the chemicals responsible. As for the yeast you should be fine sometimes it takes a couple of days to see the bubbling action.
> 
> Sorry you had such a rough start here. A lot of people come on these wine making forums and ask all sorts of bizarre questions not really looking for an answer (trolling). One guy recently put the same set of posts on 6 message boards and never came back for the answer on any of the boards.
> 
> We really are a nice bunch of folks who are more then happy to help you learn about making wine.  Maybe just a little defensive about time wasters. Stick it out, check out Jack Keller's site http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/ it will give you plenty to chew on and we can help sort out anything confusing.



I really need to ignore everyone but you. I wonder if these people are sober when they are trying to attack me for no reason....  

Well, I rinsed the bottle to get rid of the bleach but I didn't do it really well, I just ran water in it, shook it up some, dumped it out, repeated that, then filled the carboy up with water to dilute anything that was left, and then dumped that out. I thought any bleach left would just help kill anything in the juice, and the juice would absorb it anyway. 
Its interesting you mention about saran wrap absorbing something from the wine. I know that saran wrap isn't like other plastic wraps, so I can believe it would absorb something that others wouldn't. 
When I got home I found the yeast bubbling away in the juice. It was great! And the grape juice smell was really good to smell. So I took the napkins off the top and put the fermentation lock on it before I went to bed. I put a little Potassium bisulfite in the water inside the fermentation lock; was that okay? I wonder what would happen if it ran down into the fermenting juice? Would it kill the yeast? When I got up, the bubbling was quite a bit subdued but still going. I guess tonight I will bring it down into the basement to ferment the rest of the way. I am guessing the floor it will sit on is probably 55 Fahrenheit, so it will be about ten degrees cooler than upstairs next to my sofa. The only drawback is that I won't be about to sit there and watch it. Cheap thrills, huh? 
I have gone to that site before, it is one suggested on a Google search. I think I copied a page about different kinds of yeast, and maybe something else. I thought that coming here to ask real people about how to do things would be better, but now, other than you, I don't think so. The other people all seem to be trolls who get some kind of juvenile charge out of calling me a troll. Oh well, I can just ignore them. A Monty Python (I think) line about farting in their general direction comes to mind. :: 
By the way, is it normal for me to have to sign in every time I post something? I mean, every reply, every question. It doesn't stay signed into the site. Is that normal?


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## Green Mountains (Mar 13, 2010)

Have you tried running with scissors? Not recommended by this forum but similar to things you have attempted.


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## Leanne (Mar 13, 2010)

Keep it warm. You are looking after a new baby here. Remember, patience is your best friend with wine making.
To be honest, I'm a bit surprised at the reaction your posts have caused on this site. I've never seen it before. We usually welcome and befriend everyone.


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## rawlus (Mar 13, 2010)

with all due respect, nobody has been hostile. i have been very skeptical, not hostile.
skeptical because you undertook the process in a very unusual way, you reveal nothing about your location which is often useful for giving the right answer to a question, you posted 4 threads of about the same thing in one sitting, you have not answered back questions that were put to you about methods and practices, youve made characterizations about wine and winemakers which make it seem less likely you are truly interested in wine.

people who are truly interested in learning tend to follow a common path... that is the path of research and lurking... not asking a barrage of questions and then whining about the results you got.

as someone else said earlier. do over. do your research, find out nwhat wine you want to make, ask advice BEFORE you start, tell us what you have for equipment, test equipment, containers, chemicals, ingredients. do you have a hydrometer. do you have an airlock? collectively we can guide you through the steps, but recovering a year-old batch with 100x the sulfite necessary is not something that is salvageable..... 

you have to understand, you are coming to a forum of passionate winemakers... when you post in the middle of the night these vague stories and are elusive about your identity, people get suspicious, especially when there is an arrogance or stubbornness to the context of the post.


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## Leanne (Mar 13, 2010)

Well, I'm disappointed and surprised. We have never treated anybody like this before and the friendliness of this site is what has always made it special. We've always prided ourselves on making newbies welcome.


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## Wade E (Mar 13, 2010)

Geeeze. I get busy with work and then very sick and finally log onto just to see this!!! Cmon everyone, lets play nicely here!!!!! It does blow when people come here with questions without doing much if any research at all but if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything at all from now on please. I can say from being on this forum and running it that most people here came here with tons of questions also. Hamsterflu, I apologize for some of the replies here and this is not how we run here but there are some replies here that are just people asking for more info on your post cause believe it or notwe do need more info to do diagnostice some times. Its kind of like bringing your cr to the mechanic and saying its making a noise and asking if we can fix it right now but the noise isnt present at the moment for the mechanic to hear. There is a lot of posts here so Im going back to the beginning to read it all and will do my best to answer your questions. Please do some research also also though cause from a few very quick things Ive read some of them really arent the best methods for winemaking and this is what some people are trying to relay to you.


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## Leanne (Mar 13, 2010)

Thank you. I'd hate to see this site change.


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## Wade E (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay Hamster flu, I have read over what has been written here and will try to answer what I can but please do try and keep it on one thread from now on cause starting many threads with the same questions makes it very hard to answer your questions and quite honestly just makes a mess of this site but all is good as ill clean up and merge it all a little later today when I hopefully feel a little better. Pectinase is used to hel extract color and flavor from the fruit or herbs that you use in wine making by breaking down the cellular structure of these ingredients and is added 12 hours after initially adding your sulfites used at the very beginning to ward off any wild yeasts so that the wine making yeast of your choice can take hold and produce the alc. metabisulfite is a good sanitizer for use in wine making but has to used in the amounts recommended. Adding too much of this can get you sick just as using too much bleach can or just about any sanitizer, remember that sanitizer is made to either kill off of keep in check many harmful things and some of these things are actually active helpful things inside your body! Using too much pectinase isnt anything to worry about as it settles out but possibly if you really ignored the dosage and dumped in 100x what should have been in there might give your wine an off taste. 
Sulfite additions are as follows: 
*3* tablespoons per *1* gallon for is the recommended dosage for *sanitizing*
*1/4 * teaspoon per *6* gallons is the recommended dosage for adding to your wine at the very beginning to ward off wild yeasts and after fermentation to protect your wine from oxidation and to keep harmful microbes in check.
When starting a new batch of wine depending on the yeast used, the ingredients in your wine such as nutrients and yeast energizer, temps, and the procedure you use to get your yeast started can greatly influence in how fast your yeast can take off bu you have to be more patient as sometimes it can take up to 72 hours for signs of fermentation. The first sign is usually sound which sounds just like a soda pop fizzing.


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## xanxer82 (Mar 13, 2010)

I think a lot of the folks here thought the op was a spammer with all of the vaugery. Perhaps an introduction thread would have broken the ice. The people here are really great, just a little wary when a half dozen new threads emerge with vauge questions and little to no introduction on the new users part.


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## Leanne (Mar 13, 2010)

It doesn't matter if they format badly. They are newbies and are asking for help aren't they? Isn't that why we are here?


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## Runningwolf (Mar 13, 2010)

Leanne said:


> It doesn't matter if they format badly. They are newbies and are asking for help aren't they? Isn't that why we are here?



Leanne, I am guilty as charged. You are absolutely right about this forum being the best and friendliest. Most spammers and fakes are usually gone by now. We'll see where this goes and hopefully the hamster is on the up and up and we can steer him right. I am still skeptical but hope I am wrong. I asked silly questions and will continue to so. I also enjoy drinking what I make but not nearly as much as I enjoy it when my friends enjoy what I make and I can send a bottle home with them. No more bashing from me unless if their name is Wade, Tom or Troy...LOL


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## Wade E (Mar 13, 2010)

Good, now everyone make some damn wine!


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## St Allie (Mar 13, 2010)

Good grief guys..

I haven't even unpacked my suitcase yet.. Rushed in to catch up with you all and find this happening.

New people are not always forum savvy.. he'll get the hang of it eventually 

Welcome to our forum Hamsterflu, as a general rule we are much nicer than some of the comments on this thread would suggest.

Allie


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## Hamsterflu (Mar 13, 2010)

I already started a new thread last night about what I started a few days ago, with ingredients and all that. Somehow I think that is going to make people mad but I don't know why it would. Just that everything I say or do here seems to make someone want to kill me. 
The last wine I made was toxic for whatever reason. Its not in my carboy any more. 
I am fermenting something new. 
Its all in that thread.


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## Wade E (Mar 14, 2010)

Bset thing to do is start a new thread for every wine you start so that it makes it easier for us to help you along with it so you did just what we wanted to. The othetr day the other posts just confused us a little as they were all about the same thing and Im going to clean them upm right now.


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## Luc (Mar 14, 2010)

Hamsterflu said:


> Just that everything I say or do here seems to make someone want to kill me.



The reason for that is the one sentence in your post:



Hamsterflu said:


> I started a new batch a few days ago. Here are the ingredients as I remember them. It was from a recipe the lady at the winemaking shop gave me, so its written down, I just don't have it with me right now. I might edit it tomorrow if I find out I did something differently.



If you are even not willing to accurately write things down how on earth do you suppose people are going to help you.

Luc


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## rawlus (Mar 14, 2010)

the best way to get a good start in home winemaking is to have a sound understanding of the basic fundamentals prior to starting. reading, researching, the books and blogs available here and elsewhere gives you enough basic knowledge to know the right questions to ask to fine tune your technique.


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