# Cranberry 06



## jojo (Nov 1, 2005)

Followed Jack Kellers recipe - the one with currants and invert sugar. 


SG 1.085


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## Hippie (Nov 1, 2005)

Wow nice color! Wouldn't it be '05?


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## jojo (Nov 2, 2005)

I thought it'stime of release. Yeah, the hot water sure took the color out of those berries fast. I did 3 gallons, thinking another 3 gallons of either the dried Craisin recipe or some other one. Gonna go on a scavenging hunt right after Thanksgiving and fill some freezer space.


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## Hippie (Nov 2, 2005)

Sounds good. Not that it matters, it is your wine, call it whatever you want. Normally, a wine is dated from the fruit vintage year, or in non-vine fruits, year it was harvested.


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## jojo (Nov 2, 2005)

You're the best sir Hippie. I make wine to get away from the massive anal retentiveness of other areas inlife. Fermentation is miraculous.


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## Hippie (Nov 2, 2005)




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## masta (Nov 3, 2005)

Looks good jojo...






I have an Apple Cranberry *05* that is almost ready to be racked and I will post some pics. I had trouble with the initial makeup due to the amount of cranberry concentrate I used which caused the TA to be too high and the pH too low for the fermentation to start.






I had to dilute the whole batch with more apple juice (added some honey too) to bring the TA and pH in range for the yeast.....but the good news is that I now have 10 gals instead of 6.


I sure do hope it comes out tasting ok!


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## jojo (Nov 3, 2005)

thanks masta. more is always good!


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## jojo (Nov 9, 2005)

tonight i am "transferring" to secondary. minus the bagged solids, which have decreased in size considerably.


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## jojo (Nov 9, 2005)

Ok. She has been transferred. SG is 1.010. It came to almost 4 gallons including real thick lees, so I used a one gallon jug and this 3 gallon carboy. I figure after racking the secondary it will even out to 3. How low can I go with temperature here? The basement is an even 62 F, but I suspect itdips at night.








*Edited by: jojo *


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## Waldo (Nov 10, 2005)

Might try setting them on an electric blanket or heating pad JoJo. The wines look great but that pinkish colored carboy looks like it might need to be topped up


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## masta (Nov 10, 2005)

The only info I could find on Montrachet yeast is that the minimum temp to complete the fermentation is about 60 F.It appears the fermentation has move along well so far so I wouldsay you should be ok unless the temp really falls off.


Not to contradict you Waldo but topping off at this point is not critical since the wine is still producing CO2 which will purge the head space and protect the wine.It is very important after fermentation is complete and no longer producing CO2.


When it is time to degas you will need to warm it up to at least 70 or it will take forever and be very difficult.


Looks good and great job!


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## jojo (Nov 13, 2005)

she dried out quickly. SG.990 today. i racked the extra gallon onto oak cubes and put it away in the basement to age. the 3 gallon i'm gonna leave like it is.


thanks waldo - i did top up the gallon this morning with almost a cup of boiled and cooled water. i figure down the road i'll use wine of some kind.


thanks masta - that is a point to remember. the basement is at 62 and steady these days. this wouldexplain a lot of lengthy beating i have done in the past!!!


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## Waldo (Nov 13, 2005)

OOps Sorry JoJo..I was thinking a step ahead of where you were at. Thanks Masta for the correction.


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## peterCooper (Nov 13, 2005)

I spent the day yesterday making my christmas cake. In England we have a 
heavy heavy fruit cake, which we then put almond paste and a hard white 
icing on. Then we decorate the top to look like a winter scene. In Texas, it's 
as close as we get to snow.

Anyway, as a result I have
10 oz currants
6 oz of sultanas (white grapes, dried)
1lb raisins and 
2 lb dried cranberry
3lb dark brown sugar.

Is this the basis for any kind of wine?


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## masta (Nov 13, 2005)

First thing to know is whether any of the dried fruit has had sorbate (sorbic acid) added as this could prevent fermentation. Sulfite is ok but sorbate is not.


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## jojo (Nov 13, 2005)

Is it a bit early for Christmas cake?


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## Waldo (Nov 14, 2005)

Not too early for making them. Mom always made her fruit cakes before Thanksgiving and then sealed them up and let them set until Christmas. I think she used Rum inhers too. I know they were heavy suckers


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## jobe05 (Nov 14, 2005)

Thats right Waldo. I made mine this weekend also (4 of them). They need to age for about a month in a sealed container with a damp cloth. Im going to dapen mine with bourbon


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## peterCooper (Nov 14, 2005)

I dampen mine with brandy. Actually the fruit soaks in brandy for a few 
hours 
before making the cake. It is supposed to be fed each week with a couple of 
teaspoons of brandy, then iced about a week before.

None of the fruit has sorbate (good ol' Sunmaid). I do have some candied 
peel wich does contain sorbate, but I'm not using it. I'm thinking of making 
it christmas cake wine, using as many of the ingredients from the cake as 
seems reasonable.

I suppose the question is going to be how much water, how much lime and 
lemon and orange juice, and how much sugar to get the balance.*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## masta (Nov 14, 2005)

These recipes might be of some help:


http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques58.asp


http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques87.asp


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## jobe05 (Nov 17, 2005)

Masta: I'm going to start a cranberry next, I have2 questions


1). I love cranberries with orange zest added, can I just add this to any recipe? If I do..... will it be any good?


2) most recipes I have seen call for Welch's white grape juice. All I can find in the stores lately for some reason is Welch's "Niagra" which has sulfite (or sorbate or something) added to it. Can I use Welch's frozen cranberry juice as a substitute whithout overpowering the taste, or ruining the taste?


3) should I do 1 gallon or 3?*Edited by: jobe05 *


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## MedPretzel (Nov 17, 2005)

jobe05 said:


> 3) should I do 1 gallon or 3?







3!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## masta (Nov 17, 2005)

jobe05 said:


> Masta: I'm going to start a cranberry next, I have2 questions
> 
> 
> 1). I love cranberries with orange zest added, can I just add this to any recipe? If I do..... will it be any good?
> ...




1. Excellent idea with the zest...Go for it!


2. Niagara has sulfite added (100 ppm according to Hal who has tested it) it is ok to use but do not add any more (k-meta,campden tabs)


Cranberry concentrate is ok to use but careful of too much cranberry as it will be very tart.


3. Make 3 to start and you could always divide it up in 1 gallon jugsand tweak each one with more zest, oak, sweetness level!


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## bilbo-in-maine (Nov 18, 2005)

Masta, Martina, anyone:

Last weekend I started several gallons of cranberry/currant from Jack 
Kellers recipe for the same, using invert sugar made with lemon juice. 
Masta mentioned tartness, and I would have thought cranberries are 
naturally acidic. Jack's recipe didn't call for any acid to be added, so I 
figured the lemon plus acid in cranberries would provide acid to a proper 
level. Last night I checked TA with my little $7 kit and got a color change 
at a surprisingly low number, around 4%. The pH (based upon paper strip) 
is maybe 3.4. So, titratable acid seems low but pH is in the ballpark. 
Adding acid blend will drive the pH lower if I understand correctly. Any 
advice?

By the way, this was started with Montrachet. I let the must get down near 
62 degrees and fermentation dropped off sharply. It is back in warmer 
territory now and fizzing well again, but Montrachet does seem to be 
sensitive to the low range Masta mentioned elsewhere.

Bill


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## jobe05 (Nov 18, 2005)

bilbo, I can't answer your question, buit would like to add to it if I may. My gut feeling when I read your question was just add more lemon juice or (for me) orange juice or zest to the must. Would that increase the acid and not impair the PH?


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## masta (Nov 18, 2005)

Bill,


I might have a bit off base with my post amount the amount of cranberry used as an issue. I had used a cranberry concentrate in a wine and the TA and pH was off the chart and prevented the start of fermentation. If you follow a proven recipe you should be fine.


Sorry for the confusion and the best way to attack this is to test the must and adjust if need.


The main thing to remember about acid testing is that TA (titratable acidity ) is the measurement of the amount of acid in your solution and the pH (potential of hydrogen) is the strength of the acid. Two wines or must with the same TA could have a different pH because of what type of acid is present.


Here are some links to help you understand it better:


http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/acid.asp


http://www.finevinewines.com/Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5 41&amp;PN=2


Your cranberry/current wine is a bit low with a TA .04% but I would wait to adjust until after fermentation. The best way to adjust this later on is to adjust to your target TA and taste it. 


Your must have a certain amount of acid in your wine in order for it to be balanced but the final amount can be a matter of taste of who is drinking it.


It is your wine and should taste good to you.*Edited by: masta *


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## MedPretzel (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm a pH dummy, so I would hate to offer advice that I am unsure about. 





As for Montrachet yeast, however, I think I sorta know something about it. Don't worry. I have major temperature swings in my basement (used to be an old coal cellar) within the year. Montrachet (and Lalvin-72B-1122) are the only ones that handle it decently.




Premier Cuvee has been working this year so far. But Montrachet - I like it. You can't make a port with it or anything, but a good wine with up to about 14% abv is what you get with Montrachet. It usually gets a bad rap from other winemakers, but even Jack Keller recently mentioned how much he likes it. 


Whoops, forgot to mention that you might want to get yourself a heating pad or a brew-belt. It keeps the temperature of your must/carboy/wine at a constant temp. The b-b's are adjustable and I usually can get 2 snuggled up to one another and keep them a couple of degrees warmer than the ambient temp.


Hope this helps - again, sorry that I can't help you with pH...





Martina*Edited by: MedPretzel *


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## bilbo-in-maine (Nov 18, 2005)

Jobe, Masta, Martina - Thanks for your replies.

Masta, your second link didn't work. I've combed through Jack's pages 
more than once and have come away with the clear lesson that paying 
attention to acid level is important in a country wine if for no other reason 
than to keep the wine protected from invasion (I don't mean by wine 
drinkers in the house



), but also for taste and mouthfeel. I bought the 
TA kit but now wonder if I should do as Martina and you have done and 
get a more expensive pH meter, just to make sure that starting musts are 
at least in the ballpark in terms of both amount and strength of acid. As 
Martina said, she placed in competition, but judges looked for a more 
acidic character sometimes. The taste quality of the wine depends on it.

This leads to a response to Jobe's question about adding citric acid to a 
recipe. Assuming we can know what acid levels we are working with, the 
question of what type of acid to add, if needed, probably hinges on 
personal taste preference. We are used to mostly tartaric in our grape 
wines, and this is the dominant acid in the acid blend products we buy. I 
would tend to want to use the blend in a non-grape base to provide the 
qualities that tartaric acid gives. Jack says that citric acid disappears 
during fermentation, but if you have a recipe using a lot of citric fruit as a 
base, there is plenty to go around to start with.

Bill


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## masta (Nov 18, 2005)

I fixed the second link...


I would agree a pH meter is a great tool to have when making wine other than kits. When I had this trouble with my apple/cranberry not starting fermentation I was able to troubleshoot the problem fairly quickly with an acid test and pH reading. I bought my pH meter when I decided to start making mead but so far have not run into a pH issue and had to use it for that.


The more tools you have to help make better wine and troubleshoot problems are well worth the cost in my book!


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