# Picking up 20lbs of Sourwood Honey tomorrow...



## MrJames (Jul 22, 2013)

I've been trying to score some bulk honey for some time now and found a source for Sourwood Honey. I am picking up 20# tomorrow. I want to make a 5g batch of sweet Mead. I love fragrant, good tasting Mead. I'm not too concerned about ABV (but I will arm myself with my hydrometer for you J... )...

I have a 3g batch of Mead going now. The basic recipe I used was 7.5 lbs clover honey, 5g of reverse osmosis water and 1 packet of champagne yeast. Set it and forget it. Been fermenting in a 3g carboy for the last 3 months or so.

Any recipe ideas for my next batch?


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## Deezil (Jul 23, 2013)

There's lots of ideas, but you'll have to step your game up. If you want to simply mix honey into some water, add DAP and call it a day, thats well and fine but you wont be able to handle 95% of the things I could throw at you, as ideas. 

The reason you got swamped over the hydrometer is because it directly related to your question. How can we tell you if you can add sugar to increase the ABV, if we dont know the current-ABV nor do we know the ABV-tolerance of the yeast strain you used? They tried to help, and I cant really blame them for how it happened. It's all over this forum and countless other pages. The only reason I'm bringing this up here, is because you have. Not trying to pick a fight or come off as harsh, just trying to explain the mentality and environment we've come to build over time, here at WMT. 

There are others on the forum who just mix their ingredients together, and they claim they make good wine but the rest of us are of limited help because it boils down to speculation and a bunch of "I think", "Maybe", and "Hope for the best" replies. Theres as many ways to make wine as there are people making wine, but some of the basics are 'the basics' for valid reasons. 

If you want to use a hydrometer, to know your ABV but also to time your nutrient-additions, making sure your aerating enough, or step-feeding your sugar source, I can help. 

If you want to use a pH meter, or titretable acidity kit, to keep the acidity of your wine in check, theres tutorials and explanations all over the forum here. Or we're all more than glad to help. 

There's other things like Yeast-Derived Additives, tannins, off-the-beaten path yeast strains, Malo-Lactic Bacteria; some require specific numbers/ranges, some are better used when you can correlate the numbes with your palette (which happens over time)

At the end of the day, we're all here to help eachother; and keep in mind its sometimes hard to read Tone on the internet. It's easier to assume someones picking on you and coming at you the wrong way than it is to read it for what it is, and understand that they took the time to reply - so its 99% of the time, with good intentions. Here's where I should note the same goes for me, I know sometimes I can come off harsh & I'm really trying not to here; just trying to point it out is all. 

If you're interested in doing a little extra work to make a batch, doing some more measuring and playing with some tweaks to make something unique, I'd be more than happy to help.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jul 23, 2013)

Mr James, stir this one up so you dont have a foots thickness of honey on the bottom, a drill mounted stirrer for wines does this very well. Have you started to play with oak yet? What kinds of yeasts do you have? Deezils good help but he cant help you keep your banannas safe. WVMJ


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## MrJames (Jul 23, 2013)

WVMountaineerJack said:


> Mr James, stir this one up so you dont have a foots thickness of honey on the bottom, a drill mounted stirrer for wines does this very well. Have you started to play with oak yet? What kinds of yeasts do you have? Deezils good help but he cant help you keep your banannas safe. WVMJ



Have not toyed with oak yet, but I have tried a few different yeasts while making wine (and beer if course). I have a drill mounted stirrer for degassing and will use it. My first batch I made very simple because I wanted to start from the beginning, maybe even see how my Norwegian ancestors may have made it (Mjod). 

Deezil, I hear you and that is a heck of a lot to write. I didn't mind advice and will gladly take it. But when it becomes yelling (all caps), then I get turned off. I was looking for suggestions over in my other post and I got a few. Also looking for suggestions here. 

So throw them at me.....please...B-)


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## Arne (Jul 23, 2013)

For a recipe idea, pick a fruit that you like and ferment the fruit and the honey together. Or you can take the basic mead and add fruit or fruit juice to it after ferment. Use some fruit concentrate to flavor and sweeten if you ferment dry. We all like things different, so you can go light on the fruit or heavy depending on how you want it flavored. If you get an idea you want to try, shout back on here and we will try and help you with it. Arne.


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## Deezil (Jul 23, 2013)

So Arne has brought up Melomels - using fruit & honey together. There's a few ways to make a melomel, and Arne suggested one way (that I do, more often than the other). 

You can add both the honey and the fruit upfront. Most fruits SG naturally runs between 1.020 - 1.040, so this is in addition to the sugars provided by the honey. Most mead recipes call for 3lbs / gallon, but when you add fruit, it gets trickier due to the added sugars... So ya gotta measure, or end up with firewater. 

Another way to make a melomel is to add the honey upfront, get the fermentation started and add the fruit to the carboy under airlock, when the SG gets < 1.020. When doing this, leave plenty of head space both for the incoming fruit and the froth created from adding additional sugars to a fermentation. 

These two methods create two different drinks. When the fruit is added to a fermentation, the heat from fermenting and the activity of the yeast, change the flavors of the fruit in more of a Fruit Wine-style, whereas if you add the fruit post-primary fermentation, after a majority of the heat during fermentation has been created and dissipated, the yeast are past their most-active point and things are on the "backside slide" - this retains more of the original flavor from the fruit. 

As well as tampering with your SG, adding fruit will mess with the TA/pH of the wine, and can require action to balance it - acidic fruit like elderberries or blackberries might call for reducing the acid while peaches or pears will have you adding additional tartaric acid.. When you "Nail it" on a batch, you'll cry if you didnt have measurements. 

So thats a rough intro to Melomels. 

Yeast-Derived additives; these are things like Booster Blanc/Rouge, Opti-White/-Red.. Added at different times (beginning or end of fermentation usually), they have different outcomes... Overall, they help to prop up the mid-palette in fruit wines, they also help to retain color, freshness/brightness, can increase mineral-type sensations on the palette, help to buffer against oxidation.. Lots of nifty things, but they contain small amounts of yeast nutrients so adding them too late (say bulk aging) isnt wise due to spoilage organisms being able to take advantage of those same nutrients.. Generally, added around yeast-pitch or when racking under airlock (somewhere between 1.010 - 1.020) is about how I do it.

Tannins have came a long way in the last few years, and while I brought them up - they're a subjective thing in Mead. There are generic tannins that are mostly derived from grape skins and seeds, then there are other blends from various oaks, nut shells (chestnuts come to mind), as well as proprietary blends of grape skins and seed tannins.. There are some designed for adding during fermentation, some for bulk aging, and some that are for 'final tweaks' when closer to bottling time. With meads taking their sweet time to age, most dont try to drag it out any further by throwing tannins in the party (I'm not 'most' lol) as they take time to integrate and 'fall into line' so to say. Not uncommon for a mead to take 3-5 years to Shine (this doesnt mean 'drinkable'/can choke it down, this refers to the Mead saying, "Hey! pick me pick me! I'm ready!").. Add tannins, and add a few more years most likely.. Not something I'm personally scared of, but not something most attempt on their first batch or two. 

There's a whole slew of yeasts to choose from, once you get comfortable with the basic. They all have different ABV Tolerances, meaning you've got to adjust your SG accordingly or run the risk of an ABV-bomb or something syrupy sweet because the yeast gave up waaay earlier than you anticipated. All these different yeasts also bring different aromas and flavors to the party - some are light, crisp and rather neutral while other can throw some spice at you, while yet others can take that fresh raspberry and morph it into a sort of baked-raspberry sort of flavor. Yeast also, are highly affected by the temp of the must their working in, and each has tolerances that are different. It's looking at these differences overall, thats help us make generalizations on what temp to ferment - 70F is the 'sweet spot' because its on the high-side for white wines and on the low side for high-extraction red wines.. Meads? I try to ferment as cold as I can without constant interference (like adding frozen water bottles or something) because I believe a constant temp is better than a perfect temp. 

Malo-Lactic bacteria is not really needed in Mead, but I brought it up because you'll consider it just about every where else once you've been exposed to its characteristics. I brought it up, because its probably one of the most nit-picky things you could try to work with; each strain has specific ABV, SO2 & pH requirements... And some yeast strains for primary fermentation make more SO2 than others - so choose the wrong strain of yeast and the right MLB, and the combo wont let the MLB do its job. Or if theres too many blackberries and the pH is through the floor at some 2.9 or something - its not going to work either if the pH tolerance of the MLB is 3.2+ ... Or if you want to MLB an 18% ABV wine? I cant even think of one that could handle anything over 16%.. 

WVMJ touched on oak - theres dust, chips, cubes, spirals (and barrels, but we're not just gonna wing one of those right out our backside lol); each type of oak has different extraction times, and is used/removed at different times during the fermentation depending on the hoped-for outcome. Dust and chips usually end up in primary fermentation while the rest are generally added later. Each type of oak is also different in the aspect of where it came from, and the amount of 'toast' they gave it - these change the characteristics of the wood itself, which alters its impact in the wine/mead. 

There's also the oddball additions you can make during anaerobic fermentation (under airlock) or during bulk aging - things like chocolate, vanilla beans, raisins or dried fruits..

There's also the Bochet method that a bunch of us have been trying lately.. It deals with bringing the honey to a boil for anywhere between 30-90 minutes, but this takes that light floral honey you're used to and changes it into a beast full of caramel, campfire, marshmellow, coffee and toffee type flavors.. An entirely different animal, yet a blast to make (careful, can be a quite-literal interpretation.. Boiling honey is dangerous without proper handling and can spit and sputter all over you and your kitchen if you're not careful... think of tiny napalm bombs flinging at ya lol)

I could write a book on any of the things I've brought up, and amongst all of this writing, I've probably forgot quite a few things.. But if anything jumps out at you either here or on some other page on the Web.. If you're at all, in any way, unsure of whats really going on - please ask. It's much easier to try to point you in the right direction before hand than it is to have a community effort to try and fix a fault ('cause thats what happens.. Hydrometers anyone?  )

Let us know, and we'll do what we can to help you amaze yourself.


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## MrJames (Jul 24, 2013)

So here she is....I ended up with 25# and is mixed Sourwood and Clover I think. Either way, it tastes different than the first batch I made. 

I tried to measure the SG after I whipped it up, but hardly any of the honey seemed to have dissolved. I think getting an SG is a lost cause.

Do I continue to whip it up daily?? Or just let it run?


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## Deezil (Jul 24, 2013)

It needs to be dissolved, for sure. That big clump of honey sitting at the bottom is just gonna be an issue.. Do you have a heating pad or something you can wrap around it to warm it up some, so the honey will dissolve when you give it a good stir?

Oh hey, thought just hit me - do you have a 7-9 gallon open top bucket? Just pick that carboy up, and dump it in there and once it starts gurgling, give it a rather violent swirl like those 2-liter volcano "experiments" we did as kids (atleast i did  ).. The circular motion mixed with the several-foot drop should mix quite a bit of that honey into the water, although it would work even better if you could warm it up first.. Either sit it in a warm sink of water, wrap a heating mat around it..... It's gotta dissolve! 

I've never had that problem myself, but i mix it thoroughly in an open top bucket first, and i always use luke-warm water, something about body temp.. I can put my hand in it, and leave it in it.

Once it dissolves, an SG is cake


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## seth8530 (Jul 24, 2013)

Yeah, what good oll deezil said, I would get try and put that guy in a bigger bucket and get that honey dissolved.. Else, it is just gonna kinda sit there and not do way too much. As well as making any sort of measurements next to impossible.


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## MrJames (Jul 25, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> Yeah, what good oll deezil said, I would get try and put that guy in a bigger bucket and get that honey dissolved.. Else, it is just gonna kinda sit there and not do way too much. As well as making any sort of measurements next to impossible.



Sure, I won't get a good measurement, but are you and Deezil saying that it won't ferment because of the clump?


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## Wade E (Jul 25, 2013)

You really need to get that out of carboy and into a bucket with more room and heat it up yo dissolve it!!!!!! Heating it up is the only way yo dissolve sugar or honey. You are going yo waste this good honey if you don't follow these instructions!


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## Deezil (Jul 25, 2013)

MrJames said:


> Sure, I won't get a good measurement, but are you and Deezil saying that it won't ferment because of the clump?



If the honey isnt dissolved.. It will definitely take forever, and then some, to ferment... And it may stop pre-maturely... How pre-maturely? Who knows.. Will it be balanced, if it stops pre-maturely? It's a shot in the dark I definitely wouldnt take. You wont know the alcohol level, to balance the sweetness with, so you're poking Fate with a stick, basically. 

Like I said, you can do it that way, there's people that do it that way (with limited success), but we're of little help. We can join you for the ride, but when you hit a snag, there's not much we can do except tell you that you should have listened 

I wouldnt do it that way, nor would I try to teach someone to do it that way.
But if you can afford it (honey isnt cheap)...


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## MrJames (Jul 25, 2013)

Ok, I will put into a 7g bucket...do I top off with more water? I'll have to think about how to warm it up....will warming it kill the yeast? Not gonna get it hot, but just warm I guess...


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## Rampage4all (Jul 25, 2013)

Don't have to warm it much about 90 would do and yeast will be fine at that temp for while.


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## Rampage4all (Jul 25, 2013)

Heating pad under the bucket works good.


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## MrJames (Jul 25, 2013)

Warmed it on the stove top and them whipped it up....yummy foam coming out.


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## Deezil (Jul 25, 2013)

Atta Boy!
Betcha get an SG now 

Dont add more water until you get the sugar reading.

If the reading is greater than 1.090, you can add more water because this will give you extra volume to top off with later when the yeast fall out and you lose some volume to sediment - you'll still end up with a full carboy in the end..

If the reading is between 1.085 - 1.090, dont touch it and be prepared for that volume loss later by having smaller vessels to rack down to, that you can keep airtight.

If its under 1.080, then you'll make less than 10.5% alcohol and the wine/mead will then be susceptible to nasties - you'll either want to dissolve some more honey in there, or if you cant afford that, just some white sugar to make the difference


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