# New cold climate varieties coming in 2015



## GreginND (Jan 18, 2015)

Tom Plocher, the grape breeder who produced the Petite Pearl grape, is still hard at work. This year he will name and release two new varieties that have even better qualities than Petite Pearl. 

TP 2-1-17 is a sister of petite pearl with good hardiness. The shoots begin to harden off in August and by the time the fruit is ripe, they are hardened off to the tips. This allows the vines to better survive cold climates. 

TP 1-1-34 is another variety that will be released and has been reliably hardy in zones 4b and warmer. It produces excellent wine. I wish it could be grown here in North Dakota because I would plant it in a heartbeat.

Tom is working with NDSU on new North Dakota varieties as well.

He has just created a new website where you can follow his new developments.

http://www.petitepearlplus.com


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## grapeman (Jan 18, 2015)

Yes these couple sound pretty good. He also has a couple more that I really want to try that I think will be as good or even better in slightly warmer climates like mine. I won't mention the names here, Tom will give the information out when he is ready. The exciting thing is they are cold hardy, have higher tannins, great flavors and complexity and pretty good resistance to disease and splitting. More good choices in the future.


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## the_rayway (Jan 18, 2015)

I'm definitely checking this out. I want to plant a couple of vines this year (fingers crossed) that will be hardy to zone 3a.


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## bhoenisch (Jan 19, 2015)

Heard that UMN well be releasing a new white variety this year, but so far this is the only source I can dig up: http://midwestwinepress.com/2014/11/16/new-grape-coming-university-minnesota/ anybody heard anything else on this?


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## RedSun (Jan 19, 2015)

This is good news.

But for growers, this poses a huge dilemma. The Petite Pearl has been out for several years, but the vines are still hard to get. Commercial planting has been somehow limited. All new wine grape varieties require some lead time to test and we get first harvest in the 3rd year. 

I was going to plant some Petite Pearl. But the "new and better varieties" make me pause. Tom can release one or two this year, then a couple over the next a couple of years. So if I plant several acres of Petite Pearl now, I'll forgo the better varieties in coming years...... 

I'm not a commercial grower, but just try to think that way.


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## grapeman (Jan 19, 2015)

The fun of growing grapes, having to make choices and then live with them for years. 
Just remember if you wait, you will be in line again to get them until enough are grown for demand.


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## GreginND (Jan 19, 2015)

RedSun said:


> This is good news.
> 
> But for growers, this poses a huge dilemma. The Petite Pearl has been out for several years, but the vines are still hard to get. Commercial planting has been somehow limited. All new wine grape varieties require some lead time to test and we get first harvest in the 3rd year.
> 
> ...




I'm not quite sure what your point is. Certainly it takes time after a new variety is released before it is widely available. Just because a new variety is announced doesn't mean you should change your plans for the near future. Petite Pearl was released in 2010 and you are just thinking about planting in 2015 and expecting harvest 2018 and beyond. Why would you delay that another five+ years waiting for the next varieties?

Would you like them to not release the new varieties so you feel better about your Petite Pearl planting?


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## RedSun (Jan 19, 2015)

Grape selection is the most important thing for a vineyard. It is a huge investment at the very beginning. After you choose, you live with your selection for many years. Then all your wine making is around your grape selection.

Say you get lucky (compared with the other old growers) and planted some new varieties (PP or Marquette, etc). Then Tom releases new varieties this year and stating they are much better than PP, bud out late, good fruit quality, disease resistant, cold hardy and high fruit quality for wine making. Then what do they have to do with you? Probably nothing. You may plant some new varieties, but space is limited. You are not to take out the newly planted vines and plant the yet newer varieties.

Also, if I'm to plant some vines this spring, what should I choose? The tested PP and Marquette, or wait for the new varieties? We may have to wait at least a couple of years for the new vines to be available. 

Then we second guess ourselves for the grape choices....


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## RedSun (Jan 19, 2015)

I would not say this is "fun". But we have to make a choice some day. 

It is fine with several vines. But for commercial growers, this is the most important decision. They could be dealing with losing crops once in several years; losing vines to diseases and harsh weather; or simple bad crop due to weather etc.

I think this is why a lot of commercial growers do not like to grow new varieties, but stick with the old and time-test varieties. So they know they would get a crop in fall.

Hobby is one thing, making money is another thing.



grapeman said:


> The fun of growing grapes, having to make choices and then live with them for years.
> Just remember if you wait, you will be in line again to get them until enough are grown for demand.


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## GreginND (Jan 19, 2015)

Exactly right. It's always a craps shoot. But you have to make your choices based on what is available at the time and your timing. If petite pearl is a good grape that makes good wine, it won't be less good because a new variety came out later.

I think Marquette is well proven now to be a good grape for wine. Actually, so far, I like the wines better than those form petite pearl. But we may not have learned how best to make pp yet. I have put my investment in these two varieties. In 5-10 years, if they don't prove out for me and something better has come along, I would consider switching them out.


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## grapeman (Jan 19, 2015)

Right now the choice isn't as difficult for me. I planted Petite Pearl 4 years ago on a sandy soil, which they don't seem to like. I only planted 50 to see what they would do. Well they haven't done much in my case. Other places they do great. So, if I get the choice of planting more of them or putting in newer ones, I might try some of the new ones. That said, I have planted more acreage of Marquette because they have proven themselves to me. The wine is good and people buy it.


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## RedSun (Jan 19, 2015)

GreginND said:


> In 5-10 years, if they don't prove out for me and something better has come along, I would consider switching them out.



This is easy to say, then get done. Who would want to take out acres of 10 year old vines (still good, but not the best) and replace them with new varieties?

I believe most of us would want to live with our choice and work around with what we've gotten.


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## RedSun (Jan 19, 2015)

If I planted acres of PP vines last year, then now new varieties come out in a couple of years and they are proven to be much (20% if we can quantify it), then I would taste sour grapes. 

Or just ignore all the talks about the new varieties and believe PP is the best variety. 

I think this is why a lot of the old varieties still get planted. Folks always believe they make or made the best choice....


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## GreginND (Jan 20, 2015)

If a vine isn't producing, I wouldn't keep it just to keep trying. I'd plant something better.

Anyway, I didn't meant to start a debate about what one should plant. There are so many factors that are local (climate, soil, disease pressure, etc.) that need to go into the decision.

I just wanted to share what Tom was doing.


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## wfournier (Sep 6, 2016)

Well I'll dig this thread up from the grave, is there any source for TP 1-1-34 yet? I see NE vine supply has some of the Crimson Pearl listed but I have not seen TP 1-1-34/Verona anywhere.


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## Masbustelo (Sep 6, 2016)

For Verona get a hold of Dell Schott <[email protected] But I would move quickly.


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## Pat57 (Sep 6, 2016)

Masbustelo said:


> For Verona get a hold of Dell Schott <[email protected] But I would move quickly.



Do you know if Verona has been released yet?

thx, Pat


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## Masbustelo (Sep 6, 2016)

Pat57 Several months ago Mr. Schott was taking reservations for next spring.


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## Pat57 (Sep 6, 2016)

Masbustelo said:


> Pat57 Several months ago Mr. Schott was taking reservations for next spring.



Thanks, I just got an e-mail from him that you can only order vines if you live at or south of the 45th parallel, so that unfortunately leaves me out I guess. I'm about 50 miles north of it. Too bad, sounds exactly like the kind of wine I like.

Pat


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