# Growing Marquette organically ?



## wood1954 (Jun 5, 2020)

Here’s my ideas, please feel free to critique and or correct me. I’m going to use bacillus Thuringia for grape berry moth larva control as well as any other caterpillars. Potassium bicarbonate for mildew, trichoderma fungus sprayed foliage, not applied to the soil for most mildews and fungal organisms. I’m not sure what to use for Japanese beetles tho. Any ideas? That’s about most of the pressure on my grapes.


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## Skashoon (Jun 5, 2020)

“Surround” (kaolin clay) For JB’s. I’m trying it myself this season.


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## dkbecker (Jun 6, 2020)

Surround is great, however it does reduce photosynthesis and I need every little bit of sunlight here in Vermont. I only had major problems with Japanese beetles when the plants were small, and I would just pick them off and put them in soapy water. I do leaf removal anyway to maximize sun exposure on the grapes, the JB,s help with that too.


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## wood1954 (Jun 7, 2020)

What about using pyrethrum for JB?


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## Skashoon (Jun 7, 2020)

dkbecker said:


> Surround is great, however it does reduce photosynthesis and I need every little bit of sunlight here in Vermont. I only had major problems with Japanese beetles when the plants were small, and I would just pick them off and put them in soapy water. I do leaf removal anyway to maximize sun exposure on the grapes, the JB,s help with that too.



It’s also very hot here in summer so the kaolin reduces the heat buildup a couple degrees. Surround claims that it will delay ripening by about one week. I’m good with that, but I’m in KY so your point is well taken. It seems the JB’s are too numerous to manually remove. I can get a bunch of them throughout the day and evening hours, so I wanted a product with some residual effect. We will see if it performs as advertised. Fingers crossed.


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## dkbecker (Jun 7, 2020)

I have also used beetleGone and it seemed to work good! It is a _Btg_ (_Bacillus thuringiensis galleriae_) bio-insecticide to control adult Japanese beetles. I purchased it from Green earth Ag and Turf beetleGONE! - Green Earth Ag and Turf


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## Skashoon (Jun 7, 2020)

Thanks I’m checking it out now. 1 lb for $60 is a pricey solution but if it works..... guess I’ll bite the bullet if the Surround doesn’t give good results.


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## sremick (Jun 19, 2020)

I have a big bag of Surround to try this year, and am also growing marquette organically in Vermont. I have a cocktail of other things I got late in the season (includes BeetleGone) after I discovered just how bad it was going to get. I'm armed and ready this year.

JB's were a nightmare last year. I'm luck my young vines survived.


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## wood1954 (Jun 19, 2020)

I’ve decided to do partial organic. Mancozeb and captan are just too effective. Now that I know the right dosage of phostrol I’ll use that until September . I’ll still use potassium bicarbonate and Bt closer to harvest. Hopefully by September most of the vine will be more resistant to disease.
after a lot of research I’ve decided to use the trichoderma for the roots only for now. It seems it stimulates the plants natural immune response. Every thing I’ve read stresses early disease prevention. I’m way more worried about fungal disease than insects. Vines are just finishing flowering now so I guess the next few weeks are very critical.


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## sremick (Jun 19, 2020)

wood1954 said:


> I’ve decided to do partial organic.


Is that like being "partially pregnant"?


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## wood1954 (Jun 19, 2020)

Kind of, I try not to kill pollinators so I use Bt at flowering. I’ve given up sulfur because that poisons the soil and potassium bicarbonate is effective instead of. Trichoderma May help reduce all fungicides as it also makes for stronger healthier plants. Mancozeb and captan seem pretty safe so I’m little earth friendly I guess. One time on a trip to Washington state I was visiting vineyards and came across a very rundown looking property that was organic, I think the owner just gave up and makes vinegar from whatever gets harvested, his wine was awful. So as long as the chemical isn’t synthetic you can call it organic, so arsenic is organic, my point being people can use all sorts of chemicals on grapes that could be more harmful Han synthetics. It’s too to work today so I’m ramblin.


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 20, 2020)

Pyrethrum is a general insecticide, it will kill JB. 
Fungus is a major issue on all vinifera hybrids. Concord seems more resistant.


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## RHGibson (Oct 2, 2020)

A nice thing about BeetleGone & GrubGone (Btg) is that they have been specifically developed for Japanese beetles. There are a number of strains of Bt, but they have different target organisms. _Bt aizawai_ is particularly effective against grape berry moths and wax moth larvae. _Bt kurtaski_ is good against lepidopterans (moths and butterflies), so is used effectively on cabbage family plants (kale, broccoli, etc.). Some Btk strains can actually help parasitic wasps. Bt _israelensis _is good against dipterans (mosquitoes, gnats, flies) but do not affect other species, so would be no good against Japanese and other beetles. When using any broad spectrum insecticide, such as soap, pyrethrin or neem, you have to be really careful about harming beneficial insects. I had to rescue and wash off a couple of praying mantises this year when trying to reduce the numbers of JB on the grapes and squash bugs & cucumber beetles on the squashes.


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## wood1954 (Oct 2, 2020)

Beetle gone is too expensive for me


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## RHGibson (Oct 3, 2020)

It is costly. Some of my larger grower friends and I have talked about going in together to buy a large amount to reduce the per lb cost. Even buying a 5 lb bag instead of a 1 lb reduces the cost about 50%. 




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beetleGONE! ag


Just For Farmers / Growers & Agricultural Users beetleGONE! ag effectively controls susceptible beetles, weevils, borers and grubs upon ingestion. It is the first BT insecticide powerful enough to control both adult and larva stages of susceptible beetles. Yet, beetleGONE! ag demonstrated no...



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## tom6922 (Oct 3, 2020)

I have tried Surround for JB's in the past with no success, and they are a major problem for me every year. One time-consuming organic solution: in the early morning before they become active, put about 2" of soapy water in a bucket and knock them off the leaves into it - kills them instantly. I do another round late in the day when the temp cools and they are less active. I haven't heard of the BeetleGone - will have to look into that.


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## wood1954 (Oct 3, 2020)

I do the handpicking until they get too numerous, then pyrethrum.


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## RHGibson (Oct 4, 2020)

Ducks and chickens can help also. With the electric poultry nettings now available, you can pen the birds in the vineyard, keeping them from other parts of the garden & protecting both the birds and the grapes from marauding racoons (a major problem in my area!). You can knock the beetles into plain water and then feed them to the birds if the latter are kept in a poultry yard.


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