# wine nutrient, is this the real deal? I have been using this type of wine nutrient fo



## shanek17 (Aug 25, 2012)

I have been using this type of wine nutrient for awhile, and It has so far been working well. I recently made a batch of mead, and I had a 6 gal carboy filled and also a seperate small bottle of mead fermenting, that way I can use the small bottle to add to my carboy after my first racking. 

Anyways when I was checking up on the small bottle I took a sniff of it and WOW it smelled funky a gross musty smell to it. I was puzzled as to why only the small one smelly. After thinking about it I realized I totally forgot to add nutrient to the small bottle and realized how people are rite when they say that mead does need nutrient to keep the yeasties stress free. 

so now to my question, I have heard that some nutrients arent complete nutrients and Of course I want the best nutrient I can get so can someone look at my picture of my nutrient and tell me if its the complete and good kind of nutrient? its called Diabasic Ammounium Phosphate. Iv looked on the internet and even tried contacting the company that makes it with no luck at all.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Aug 26, 2012)

No, that is far from complete, it only supplies nitrogen, this is what you see mentioned as DAP. You want something like femocel, fermaid, superfood, something like that, I dont know what you norther guys can get. Also, we make a larger batch in the primary all together so that everything is the same, they when we transfer to a secondary bottle we fill a big one and a little one so its all the same. Good luck, Crackedcork


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## BobF (Aug 26, 2012)

I've used Goferm and Fermaid K for my most recent 4 or 5 batches. I like it a lot. Much cleaner smelling ferments than straight DAP and not expensive.

As CC said, your picture is of a straight DAP product.


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## oldwhiskers (Aug 26, 2012)

I switched from the nutrients that were based on urea to the ones that are not. I read where the FDA will not let the commercial wineries use nutrients with urea in them.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Aug 26, 2012)

Here is some good read on nurtients: http://www.scottlab.com/products-18.aspx


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## shanek17 (Aug 26, 2012)

CrackedCork said:


> No, that is far from complete, it only supplies nitrogen, this is what you see mentioned as DAP. You want something like femocel, fermaid, superfood, something like that, I dont know what you norther guys can get. Also, we make a larger batch in the primary all together so that everything is the same, they when we transfer to a secondary bottle we fill a big one and a little one so its all the same. Good luck, Crackedcork



DAMN, I thought I had the real deal when I picked it up at the LHBS. I guess the question now is, is DAP or nitrogen nutrient good enough for mead? Is it also good enough for wine making ??

I have heard that for the most part beer actually contains alot of nutrients, considering its made with nutrient rich barley as a main ingredients, amongst other things. But from my understanding the grapes for wine and the honey for mead are just not providing enough nutrients. 

I have used clover honey in my first batch of mead, and as i mentioned in my original post I did notice a stinky smell from the fermenting jug that did not contain the DAP. I added the DAP to that jug and it seems to be doing fine now, I actually noticed the yeast activity went from barely noticeable to fully active again.


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## Deezil (Aug 26, 2012)

DAP is like.... the beginners nutrient.

When you get into Go-Ferm (for yeast starters) & Fermaid-K / Fermaid-O, they're more "complete" nutrients.. The link Doug provided should cover a lot of it


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## fatbloke (Aug 27, 2012)

There's a lot of info about nutrients etc floating around the net. The "which is best" question is often asked, in many of the home brew sites.

There is no definitive answer. Use what you find best.

There is also some ambiguity as to the naming. You often see the terms "nutrient" and "energiser" mentioned, which can be found used with different products, by different makers.

A combined nutrient, that has some DAP, some yeast hulls, plus other micro-nutrient elements in it, is stuff like Cracked Cork already mentioned i.e. fermax, fermaid (both K and O), fermecell, tronozymol, etc etc. They generally look like a light tan coloured powder.

Then there is the (almost) pure DAP type materials. They look like white crystals and are either pure DAP or maybe have an anti-caking agent in them as well.

The former provides complete nutrition for the yeast, whereas DAP is a source of nitrogen.

If you read up some of the available info (the NewBee guide at Gotmead, or Hightest's guide or other similar info, you will notice advice about using both, in varying levels/mixes/ratio's.

Some like 2/3rds combined and 1/3rd DAP, some different. 

Also, some like to split it up and add part of the dosage after the lag has finished and part at the 1/3rd sugar break (there's some evidence that it's best to have the nutrition in the batch by the 1/3rd break, hence using it as a marker point for aeration and for nutrient additions).

With meads, unless you want to make a "show" mead specifically (which can make for long, slow fermentations), then nutrients must be considered. Honey has little to no nutrient in it naturally, which is the main reason why it's used. It's not like a grape must/juice, that invariably has enough, naturally, for the yeast to use.

Stinky batches are usually a sign of stressed yeast (not always though), that need a good stir to try and remove the H2S (hydrogen sulphide a.k.a. rotten egg smell) and extra nutrient to keep the yeast from getting stressed.

It gets worse/more complex...... As there's also evidence that shows the yeast won't take up inorganic nitrogen much after the 1/3rd break. So that's where natural/organic sources come into play. Those are things like yeast hulls, boiled bread yeast, or if you can get some, Fermaid O (the K has inorganic nitrogen, the O had organic nitrogen).

All you can really do is to have a read of as much of the available info as you can manage (some of it is very heavy, techical info), then work out what you can get and from where, then experiment to work out what you find works best. The linked guides above, both have some foundation as they've been tried and tested by many of us.........

p.s. Oh and I forgot to mention specialist nutrient type stuff like GoFerm. GoFerm is, apparently, specially mixed up to have all of the nutrient requirements for rehydrating dry yeasts, without causing them any harm. It doesn't contain any DAP, because there's evidence that it can cause issues in freshly rehydrated yeasts. I use it to rehydrate my yeasts, then they're pitched into the must. Then once there is visible signs of fermentation (bubbles in the airlock), I had half of the FermaidK and DAP mix I've prepared (2 parts FermaidK and 1 part DAP). That is stirred in. I then aerate my batches on a daily basis, taking a gravity test after each aeration. Once it hits the 1/3rd sugar break (SG of 1.090, the 1/3rd break is at 1.060, etc etc), I add the other part of the nutrient mix, stir a bit just to mix it in, then airlock it off and let it finish. That's just how I like to sort my nutrition, there are other ideas and suggestions you might find around the bazaars !


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