# Blackberry



## silverbullet07 (Apr 14, 2021)

starting a blackberry wine using concentrate that I received from colomafrozen today. I started preparing the must this evening.

With the 3 qts of concentrate i added 4.5 gal water. And the must was still pretty dark. Checked the ph and it was slightly low at around 3.19. I added some calcium carbonate to increase it. Currently it is 3.31 Will recheck tomorrow to see where it is at.

I miscalculated adding sugar and accidentally went over my mark. I ended hitting SG 1.110. Hope that is not to high for a blackberry. Little more then I expected but I did not want to add any more water.


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## Ty520 (Apr 15, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> starting a blackberry wine using concentrate that I received from colomafrozen today. I started preparing the must this evening.
> 
> With the 3 qts of concentrate i added 4.5 gal water. And the must was still pretty dark. Checked the ph and it was slightly low at around 3.19. I added some calcium carbonate to increase it. Currently it is 3.31 Will recheck tomorrow to see where it is at.
> 
> I miscalculated adding sugar and accidentally went over my mark. I ended hitting SG 1.110. Hope that is not to high for a blackberry. Little more then I expected but I did not want to add any more water.



I think you'll come in at a palatable FG if you have a good nutrient regimen. Oaking would also probably help balance it


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## hounddawg (Apr 15, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> starting a blackberry wine using concentrate that I received from colomafrozen today. I started preparing the must this evening.
> 
> With the 3 qts of concentrate i added 4.5 gal water. And the must was still pretty dark. Checked the ph and it was slightly low at around 3.19. I added some calcium carbonate to increase it. Currently it is 3.31 Will recheck tomorrow to see where it is at.
> 
> I miscalculated adding sugar and accidentally went over my mark. I ended hitting SG 1.110. Hope that is not to high for a blackberry. Little more then I expected but I did not want to add any more water.


as you sample, let me know if you will how it is, if you don't care, since last year, the drought nailed my harvest, what yeast did you use, IMHO blackberry has never needed anything to balance it, but that's just me, I've done a peach from them, and am fixing to do a apple-pear-crabapple, the pear is from them, both the peach and pear are both good to work with, but it'll be a couple years before i can be sure,
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 15, 2021)

Ty520 said:


> I think you'll come in at a palatable FG if you have a good nutrient regimen. Oaking would also probably help balance it



I have some Hungarian med toasted oak cubes I am going to add after primary.


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 15, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> as you sample, let me know if you will how it is, if you don't care, since last year, the drought nailed my harvest, what yeast did you use, IMHO blackberry has never needed anything to balance it, but that's just me, I've done a peach from them, and am fixing to do a apple-pear-crabapple, the pear is from them, both the peach and pear are both good to work with, but it'll be a couple years before i can be sure,
> Dawg


Thinking about pitching K1-v1116 Or 71b what is your thought?
I just start a peach too From them. Went heavy on the peach As you suggest. I keep updating the thread on my thoughts Of the concentrates.


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## Scooter68 (Apr 15, 2021)

Use the K1-V1116 - it will tolerate the higher SG better.

As to the pH as long as it's above about 3.25 you should be good. I would not raise it above 3.60 tops and anywhere between 3.25-3.60 should be just great. 
I am about to do a second racking of a blackberry that is sitting at an ABV of 16.xx and that was from a Vintners Harvest can of wine base. That one is of course going to be a dessert wine. I like that way of handling the darker wines. It also makes a bottle last longer since you typically don't serve as much of that at a time.


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 15, 2021)

I rechecked the PH this morning and made a little more adjustment. It is at PH 3.32 and corrected for temperature 3.28. So I am leaving it there. I will pitch the K1-V1116 in the morning along with some Yeast nutrient.


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## hounddawg (Apr 15, 2021)

yeah i agree with @Scooter68 ,, K1V-1116
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 16, 2021)

Just checked my SG before pitching my yeast. 1.116.


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## Scooter68 (Apr 16, 2021)

*WhooHOO !  *
So you are going to have a potent wine if that completes to .990 16.54% !!! Well with a blackberry you can make into a very very good dessert wine. I'm starting to favor those with my stronger flavored fruits like Black Currant Blackberry, Black Raspberry. For lighter ones, Peach, Pineapple-Mango, Apple, those are better at a lower ABV - below 13%.

Well as long as it ferments out - it sounds great.


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 19, 2021)

Checked SG today and it is down to 1.050. It has been 3 days since I started it Friday morning. I added 5 1/2 tsp of Yeast nutrient at the start for this 5.5 gal batch. Should I add anymore at 1.030-1.040?
Also should I add some yeast energizer at any time? I have not added any and I have some if it would be good to add some.


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 26, 2021)

It got down to 1.010 and seems to be sitting there. i went ahead and racked it to a carboy to get it of the dead yeast yesterday Since it had been 8 days. I do not see any activity but I am keeping the room warm Hoping it will continue to ferment.

would there be a reason why concentrates would not ferment below 1.010? Just seems funny that every one of my three concentrates I have done has not gone below 1.010.

I‘lol keep monitoring it and hoping it goes lower.


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

@hounddawg 

Question on fermentation with the concentrates. If I am doing concentrates, should I rack from primary to secondary after a week? I have been racking primary to secondary after a week and SG has dropped to 1.010 and seems to be staying there a few days.

Each of the three concentrates I have done fermentation just stops at 1.010. The last two, one had a higher SG 1.116 and the other SG 1,098. Both stopped at 1.010. 

What has yours done? When do you rack off primary? Just wondering if you have the same issue. Some has stated to let it stay on primary with an air lock for a a few weeks until it drops. Both had good yeast. Good temperatures. 

This next one, raspberry again, I planned for it to stop at 1.010 so I am started with a higher SG 1.100. They will all be back sweeten so not really worried about them not fermenting dry but want to make sure it has the ABV %.


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> @hounddawg
> 
> Question on fermentation with the concentrates. If I am doing concentrates, should I rack from primary to secondary after a week? I have been racking primary to secondary after a week and SG has dropped to 1.010 and seems to be staying there a few days.
> 
> ...


What yeast are you using, and your SSG?
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> What yeast are you using, and your SSG?
> Dawg



For blackberry I used K1V-1116 and started it at 1.116 and my peach I used EC1118 and started at 1.010. Both fermented to 1.010 then just stopped.


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

hum ok i just reread your thread, and you are going high octane, using EC-1118 i see what ABV I want then i run my SG up to that, then i let it ferment dry more or less any thing below 1.000 to
.996 then i rack to my secondary, no time limit, just SG, but it sounds like you are killing your yeast, what ever yeast you use will die when your alcohol reaches max, find the ABV% you like SG to that and ferment dry, once dry put 1.4 tsp of K-meta per 6 gallon and rack, do that at each racking till you or your wine is ready to bottle then i add my K-meta and potassium sorbate to package instructions in the clean empty carboy, then rack the ready to bottle wine into that carboy, back sweeten to your taste air lock a few days to be safe and bottle away
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

the black berry started a little high but it would have only been 15% if it went dry. Now it is only 13.9%. How would that have killed it when its tolerance is18%. my peach ended at 11.81% So it has to be something else. So I should leave in primary even if 2-3 weeks?


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> For blackberry I used K1V-1116 and started it at 1.116 and my peach I used EC1118 and started at 1.010. Both fermented to 1.010 then just stopped.


do you use yeast nutrient and yeast energizer, and what is your PH? on the peach you said started at SG of 1.010 and FSG of 1.010 ? the blackberry should of went completely dry, K1V-1116 is the same workhorse as EC-1118 , so something is amiss ? check your PH for one thing , airlock them to keep from spoiling till this gets figured out
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> the black berry started a little high but it would have only been 15% if whenot dry. Now it is only 13.9%. How would that have killed it when its tolerance is18%. my peach ended at 11.81% So it has to be something else. So I should leave primary even if 2-3 weeks?


no no no that was if using different yeast before i back read your thread, no you yeast should not be the problem. just for shits and grins check your yeasts exp. dates
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

I just received the yeast and the exp was two years out.


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

do you have a PH Meter ?


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

give me a minute, so i can back read entire thread,,, BRB
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> do you use yeast nutrient and yeast energizer, and what is your PH? on the peach you said started at SG of 1.010 and FSG of 1.010 ? the blackberry should of went completely dry, K1V-1116 is the same workhorse as EC-1118 , so something is amiss ? check your PH for one thing , airlock them to keep from spoiling till this gets figured out
> Dawg


I used nutrient at the start. My ph I adjust to blackberry 3.34 and peach 3.37. My peach Sg 1.100 fsg 1.010.


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

hum, you did everything well, even good to me,,, @sour_grapes ,, @Rice_Guy , you boys see what i seem to be missing hear,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

3.2 to 3.6 I'm good with on my PH, @cmason1957 @Arne anybody?
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

Everytime I use the PH meter i calibrate it With the solution. I kept the temps 69-70 and the when it seem to stop I warmed it to 74-75. Did not help.

someone told me to not rack it from primary until dry but it stayed at 1.010 for three days. 
thought maybe it had to do with unfermentable sugars. Just funny the concentrates have done this to me. The wine made from fruit did ferment dry.


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

i tagged some names when they see this they should chime in, heck you did just like i do, i just got another load from coloma today, their concentrates have been going good for me, 
the names i tagged ought to figure out what's up. your OSG are all ok, your PH seems fairly good, @Scooter68 ,, I'm not sure, i got several gallons from them I'm ready to start, both peach and pear, i got 6 gallons of concentrate from them. thawing right now, but I've got 5# 6-gallon carboys bulk aging from them already, that 30 plus gallons or wine went fine, now I'm kinda worried about what just got today peach, 1 & 1/2 gal from them & i pulled 4 gallons out of the freezer to day of pear also from them,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> Everytime I use the PH meter i calibrate it With the solution. I kept the temps 69-70 and the when it seem to stop I warmed it to 74-75. Did not help.
> 
> someone told me to not rack it from primary until dry but it stayed at 1.010 for three days.
> thought maybe it had to do with unfermentable sugars. Just funny the concentrates have done this to me. The wine made from fruit did ferment dry.


what strength buffer solution are you using, you need 4 that calibrates it close to wine


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

just keep them airlocked till it gets figured out, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Apr 28, 2021)

shoot, i got to put mine back in cold storage i just remembered i got doctors tomorrow, 
in the mean time i hope one of those i tagged chimes in, and i'll be mulling this over, like i said I'm starting several gallons i guess day after tomorrow, 
Dawg


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> what strength buffer solution are you using, you need 4 that calibrates it close to wine


It comes with 3 Different solutions to calibrate it. A 4.0, 6.? And a 9.?


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 28, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> i tagged some names when they see this they should chime in, heck you did just like i do, i just got another load from coloma today, their concentrates have been going good for me,
> the names i tagged ought to figure out what's up. your OSG are all ok, your PH seems fairly good, @Scooter68 ,, I'm not sure, i got several gallons from them I'm ready to start, both peach and pear, i got 6 gallons of concentrate from them. thawing right now, but I've got 5# 6-gallon carboys bulk aging from them already, that 30 plus gallons or wine went fine, now I'm kinda worried about what just got today peach, 1 & 1/2 gal from them & i pulled 4 gallons out of the freezer to day of pear also from them,
> Dawg


Thanks..I started up a raspberry yesterday and it is fermenting well. We will see if it stops like the other three. I decided to just plan on it stopping so I started it at 1.110


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## cmason1957 (Apr 28, 2021)

silverbullet07 said:


> I used nutrient at the start. My ph I adjust to blackberry 3.34 and peach 3.37. My peach Sg 1.100 fsg 1.010.





hounddawg said:


> 3.2 to 3.6 I'm good with on my PH, @cmason1957 @Arne anybody?
> Dawg



Yes, ph of 3.2 to even 3.8 can ferment just fine. 

Only thing I saw that seems suspect is the adding of nutrients at the start. I generally add part of my nutrition a day after fermentation starts up well and then the other half at sometime between 1/3rd and 1/2 of the sugar being consumed.



silverbullet07 said:


> Thanks..I started up a raspberry yesterday and it is fermenting well. We will see if it stops like the other three. I decided to just plan on it stopping so I started it at 1.110



How do you plan to stop the fermentation at some specific point? The only effective way i know is to add plenty of alcohol to kill the yeast off. You are much better off to decide how much alcohol you want to produce, set the sugar level to provide that, ferment dry and backsweeten.


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## hounddawg (Apr 29, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> Yes, ph of 3.2 to even 3.8 can ferment just fine.
> 
> Only thing I saw that seems suspect is the adding of nutrients at the start. I generally add part of my nutrition a day after fermentation starts up well and then the other half at sometime between 1/3rd and 1/2 of the sugar being consumed.
> 
> ...


i noticed the nutrient at the start, but foolishly ruled that out, i add at each 1/4 , or after a few days, then at half way through my SG then at the last 1/4 of my SG running dry, i tried to explain how to use the SG to get the wanted ABV so the ferment stops, but when a lot of times the way i say things are received differently then i mean,,, you remember the thread i started TO EACH THEIR OWN, man i caught flack over that, to me,, to each their own is the polite way of saying please/suit your own self, but many took it as if i was insulting them, after being off the road now better then 15 years, I've lost my ways of phrasing things in a way others take things, I'll never forget in CONN at a micky D's i ordered pancakes/hotcakes and ask for a extra syrup, they kept saying 20, i even counted 1-2 they said 20, then it dawned on me to say SIR-UP 2 syllables, where i live syrup is 1 syllable, and we say wash with a R in it hence warsh,, lol great catch @cmason1957 , and to be honest, most times i pop of at the handle is because someone phrased themselves innocently , but to me i felt they were condescending to me or smarting off to me, you can't count the PM's I've sent asking for forgiveness, to some really great people on here, whom meant no slight to me, 
Dawg
hehe where you said you add at 1/3rds i said the same thing to me but called it 1/4ths. if my brain was gasoline it would not run a ant's motorcycle half way around a BB,,,,


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## Rice_Guy (Apr 29, 2021)

_first of all you are running high test which I haven’t been doing, I max at 14% calculated. Reading the thread it should have gotten below 1.000._


silverbullet07 said:


> the black berry started a little high but it would have only been 15% if it went dry. Now it is only 13.9%. How would that have killed it when its tolerance is18%. my peach ended at 11.81% So it has to be something else. So I should leave in primary even if 2-3 weeks?


* I would not let these in the primary, the air exposure will not help the finished quality. If you are positive you want to restart with new yeast the directions are to oxygenate (mix vigorously) and keep in the primary.
* at this point you have developed quite a bit of CO2, your pH could be 0.2 units below starting point which will act as a stressor on the yeast, ,, puts you at 3.0 to 3.1 till you degas
* as Scooter said, Wohoo this stuff will be strong! again this is a stressor on the yeast
* temp sounds fine, above 80F I see an issue and below 55F
* nutrients, ? DAP ? one of the club members describes this as “feeding candy to a kid” and it is best used with step addition as the specific gravity drops. Fermaid (organic/ balanced) is better balanced and less likely to get stuck as well as less likely to go bonkers at the start. If looking for risk factors I would start looking at micro-nutrients.
* racking off dead yeast/ Lee’s, this is a technique to pull nutrients out of the ferment with the intent of creating a stuck ferment.
* 1.010 is a decent tasting gravity with a fairly acid finished beverage. my one rhubarb that stuck at 1.014 was close enough to where I would back sweeten that I waited nine months and then bottled as is.
* think Dawg said “what is your goal?” the other way to get 15% is to add grain alcohol.


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## JBP (Apr 29, 2021)

One more technical possibility - how are you testing your SG? I was gifted a Tilt hydrometer awhile back - over time, it has proven to be reliable in the initial stages and almost useless when nearing the end of fermentation. I had several ferments that frustratingly 'stopped' early (around 1.010, if I remember correctly) only to discover that when I got out my trusty old-fashioned hydrometer, they were going on down as expected and finished dry.


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## Arne (Apr 29, 2021)

And check your hydrometer to make sure it is reading correctly. Think put it in some distilled water and should read 1.000. Arne.


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 29, 2021)

Thanks Everyone. I know this was high ABV. It was a mistake that I made when I added my sugar. I do know how to calculate where I want it to be based on starting SG. I just happened to put more sugar in than it needed thinking I needed more. But now I am glad I did because ABV would have been too low. I can live with the 14.5% and glad it did stop. When I back sweeten it and add volume it will lower some. 

However in my peach thread, My Starting SG was calculated and correct. Started at 1.098 and it stopped exactly like this one. Both started and stopped the same day, setting side by side, stopped at 1.010. It is 12% which is fine. I was looking for 14% just because I know I would be back sweeting it and adding volume that will drop the AVB%. 

The three concentrates I have done, were in a different room I have in the basement to keep the temperature steady. It has linoleum over concrete. Would the bucket setting on concreate be causing it. My others I fermented dry had a thick rubber backing carpet between the concrete and the bucket. That was another thought I had. 

I have another concentrate started now on carpet square. It is 6 gal that I added 6tsp nutrients to. Would it be ok to add a couple teaspoons of nutrient when it gets to around 1.050-1.040-1.030?


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 29, 2021)

JBP said:


> One more technical possibility - how are you testing your SG? I was gifted a Tilt hydrometer awhile back - over time, it has proven to be reliable in the initial stages and almost useless when nearing the end of fermentation. I had several ferments that frustratingly 'stopped' early (around 1.010, if I remember correctly) only to discover that when I got out my trusty old-fashioned hydrometer, they were going on down as expected and finished dry.



They are just regular hydrometers. Have two and both reads exactly the same. I have had wine that finished dry and it read correctly below 1.000. My last blackberry was from fruit and it finished at .092 and a pear from fruit that finished at .094



Arne said:


> And check your hydrometer to make sure it is reading correctly. Think put it in some distilled water and should read 1.000. Arne.



Both hydrometers were tested and correct.


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## Arne (Apr 29, 2021)

yep, temperature will do it to you. Was just going to ask about that. Basement floors are cold and sometimes it doesnt take much cooler to stop things. I always set my primaries on wood when on the basement floor. My temps tend to bounce around some. Should have enough nutrient in that 6 gal. I usually add half up front and then the rest at 1.050 or 1.060 or so. Arne.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 29, 2021)

Don't ferment with the container on a cement floor in the basement -- It will suck the heat out of a small batch. If you can lay hands on a pallet, it's cheap (discards are free) and already built. I admit I ferment larger batches of grape on the floor, but they produce enough heat that it's not been a problem, especially in October in NC. Small batches are on a countertop.

I hadn't considered nutrient, but after getting H2S in a batch last fall, I'm looking at that as far more important than I had.

Regarding the yeast, EC-1118 is advertised as producing an ABV up to 18%. However, it's possible a given batch could be underachievers. If adding nutrient and jacking the temperature don't kick the fermentation back into gear, you might try adding another EC-1118, rehydrating it before adding. A common practice is to get the yeast going, then add must to it, a cup or so at a time. Make sure the must is warm, at least 75 F. Once a quart or so is actively fermenting, add it to the main batch.


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## silverbullet07 (Apr 29, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> Don't ferment with the container on a cement floor in the basement -- It will suck the heat out of a small batch. If you can lay hands on a pallet, it's cheap (discards are free) and already built. I admit I ferment larger batches of grape on the floor, but they produce enough heat that it's not been a problem, especially in October in NC. Small batches are on a countertop.



I had a pallet so I moved the one I'm fermenting now on top of it with my rubber backed carpet square under the bucket. A least we should be able to rule that out if that is my issue.


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## hounddawg (Apr 29, 2021)

JBP said:


> One more technical possibility - how are you testing your SG? I was gifted a Tilt hydrometer awhile back - over time, it has proven to be reliable in the initial stages and almost useless when nearing the end of fermentation. I had several ferments that frustratingly 'stopped' early (around 1.010, if I remember correctly) only to discover that when I got out my trusty old-fashioned hydrometer, they were going on down as expected and finished dry.


hum, i reckon i am a hay seed, but i have never heard of a tilt hydrometer  
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Apr 29, 2021)

so @silverbullet07 looks like the A team chimed in, heck, i got some good schooling too... keep this thread undated,,, 
Dawg


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