# 2021 Wine Season!



## crushday (Nov 20, 2020)

Hey, wine season 2020 is over! You’ve got everything fermented dry or nearing dry. Secondary is in full swing and it’s about time to put your wine away for a long winter nap. Congratulations!!

Spring is coming...and so is wine from the Southern Hemisphere. What are you thinking? Any one have a source for SH grapes? I’d like to do a Malbec and/or Tempranillo. This past spring, I was super fortunate to get a couple gallons each from Mendoza. Likely never happen again...

It’s never too soon to begin planning for fall 2021. I was talking to @NorCal a couple days ago and he’s planning a coastal Chardonnay. Sound very interesting and fun!

For reds, I’m planning on a Boudreaux blend. I’d like to simulate a wine by Andronicus. I’d also do 100% varietal of each below and other blends.

Here’s the blend from Andronicus:

29% Merlot
26% Cabernet 
20% Malbec
10% Petit Verdot
10% Petite Sirah
5% Cab Franc

Let us know what you plan on doing!


----------



## NorCal (Nov 20, 2020)

I promised the Mrs. that I would do a GSM next year (Grenache , Syrah, Mourvèdre), but I have a lot of reds in the cellar, so I may only make 20 or so gallons of it. I always make a white each year, usually 15-20 gallons. 
I’d really like to do a 60 gallon barrel fermented, total diecetyl bomb of a Chardonnay next year. I think I can get a neutral white wine barrel, but good Chard grapes in my area have proved to be a challenge.


----------



## mainshipfred (Nov 20, 2020)

I like the way you think. Even though I have 19s over due for blending and bottling and putting the 20s through the finishing touches I'm already thinking about spring as well. I'll do another Stellenbosch Cab (this will be the fourth year) and a Chilean Malbec for sure.


----------



## franc1969 (Nov 20, 2020)

Has anyone used the Australian juices from PIWine? I got their email today and am pondering. Fills the time before other spring grapes and juice.


----------



## CDrew (Nov 20, 2020)

Wow. 2021. I'm not even done with 2020. Funny.

Not doing off season wines. What I like about wine making, is that once you can put it to bed, you can ignore it for months at a time. If you do spring wines, you're wine making 12 months per year. Too much work. My 2020 is almost to bed until February. And after that, I won't mess with it until Fall.

But 2021-I'd like to do a 30 gallon ferment aged in a Flex tank, and maybe another couple of red wines. And some white wine. And a Rose. I have close to 100 gallons in 2020 and that's too much. I'd like to scale down to 75 or so in 2021, but it's hard in the moment. I'll probably do another 100 gallons.  

But good luck to all with 2021 spring wines.


----------



## mainshipfred (Nov 21, 2020)

franc1969 said:


> Has anyone used the Australian juices from PIWine? I got their email today and am pondering. Fills the time before other spring grapes and juice.



I believe @heatherd did a few years ago. Can't remember what though.


----------



## Booty Juice (Nov 21, 2020)

I will be:
1.) NOT making any more wine until next season.

Next season I will:
1.) Continue to ramp up Rose' production as they still consume it all prior to the next bottling.
2.) Exclusively whole-fruit ferment with soft then progressively more vigorous punch downs.
3.) Native yeast ferment the fruit that comes from the vineyard / winery that does the same.
4.) Upgrade my gear - thank you @NorCal and @Aaron.


----------



## winemaker81 (Nov 22, 2020)

I'm probably the oddball here -- I'd like to ferment something every month! When the wine is stable, I've got nothing to putter with! 

After the Christmas holidays, I'll probably start a couple of batches -- potentially an elderberry and a white kit. My wife it not fond of the fermentation smell, so it reigns me in (which is a good thing).

Fall 2021? Currently I'm considering a Rhone-style blend, but will change my mind at least a dozen times before then. Plus my group gets our west coast USA grapes in 1 load, so I'll have to finalize my list in the last week, depending on what is shipping at that time. When I lived in central New York, I was in the Finger Lakes every weekend, and could make whatever I wanted. Having to plan around what is available at a specific point in time is a totally different paradigm.


----------



## CDrew (Nov 22, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I'm probably the oddball here -- I'd like to ferment something every month! When the wine is stable, I've got nothing to putter with!
> 
> After the Christmas holidays, I'll probably start a couple of batches -- potentially an elderberry and a white kit. My wife it not fond of the fermentation smell, so it reigns me in (which is a good thing).
> 
> Fall 2021? Currently I'm considering a Rhone-style blend, but will change my mind at least a dozen times before then. Plus my group gets our west coast USA grapes in 1 load, so I'll have to finalize my list in the last week, depending on what is shipping at that time. When I lived in central New York, I was in the Finger Lakes every weekend, and could make whatever I wanted. Having to plan around what is available at a specific point in time is a totally different paradigm.



I know you saw in my 2020 thread that I've been fairly impressed with Wine Grapes Direst as a source of white grapes/juice. And that way you could avoid doing a kit. If you really just want something to keep you busy, have them ship you a pail a month, or better, 2 pails every other month.


----------



## MrTea (Nov 22, 2020)

CDrew said:


> I know you saw in my 2020 thread that I've been fairly impressed with Wine Grapes Direst as a source of white grapes/juice. And that way you could avoid doing a kit. If you really just want something to keep you busy, have them ship you a pail a month, or better, 2 pails every other month.



I'll second the recommendation for Wine Grapes Direct. Excellent product, superb communication and reasonable pricing (I have to get them shipped so that kind of hurts my bottom line but it is what it is).


----------



## winemaker81 (Nov 22, 2020)

CDrew said:


> I know you saw in my 2020 thread that I've been fairly impressed with Wine Grapes Direst as a source of white grapes/juice. And that way you could avoid doing a kit. If you really just want something to keep you busy, have them ship you a pail a month, or better, 2 pails every other month.


Thanks for the suggestion! I have been making kits for so long that it's what I think of, but yeah, juice is always better.

I hit their site and the first 3 things I saw were Sémillon, Sauvignon Blanc, and Gewurztraminer. My son and I were just discussing Loire grapes, and my wife loves Gewurztraminer. Portents are leaning toward this ....


----------



## CDrew (Nov 22, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I have been making kits for so long that it's what I think of, but yeah, juice is always better.
> 
> I hit their site and the first 3 things I saw were Sémillon, Sauvignon Blanc, and Gewurztraminer. My son and I were just discussion Loire grapes, and my wife loves Gewurztraminer. Portents are leaning toward this ....




Ya-You gotta think outside the box..LOL

So I can vouch for the Sauvignon Banc and Semillion. Nice quality juice. I used Allegro yeast on 4 pails total in the last few weeks and very happy with the initial results.


----------



## distancerunner (Nov 23, 2020)

franc1969 said:


> Has anyone used the Australian juices from PIWine? I got their email today and am pondering. Fills the time before other spring grapes and juice.



The juices are good. 
The customer service is excellent.


----------



## Kitchen (Nov 28, 2020)

I'd like to find somewhere to buy high quality PA grapes (Merlot, Cab Sav and Cab Franc), and do the same field blend I did this year with grapes from CA to see the difference.

Anyone know where to source such grapes in PA?


----------



## winemaker81 (Nov 28, 2020)

I did a quick search for PA vineyards and found only commercial vineyards. I had the same problem with North Carolina and Virginia, as I looked in both before finding a source for west coast grapes.

There are winery trails in all parts of PA. You might try a trail and ask at the various wineries.


----------



## mainshipfred (Nov 28, 2020)

Kitchen said:


> I'd like to find somewhere to buy high quality PA grapes (Merlot, Cab Sav and Cab Franc), and do the same field blend I did this year with grapes from CA to see the difference.
> 
> Anyone know where to source such grapes in PA?



It's tricky to grow Cab Sauv in the Mid Atlantic States. The growing season does not allow the grapes to become phenolic ripe so high quality will be hard to come by. I'm not sure about Merlot but you may have some luck with Cab Franc.


----------



## Ajmassa (Nov 28, 2020)

Kitchen said:


> I'd like to find somewhere to buy high quality PA grapes (Merlot, Cab Sav and Cab Franc), and do the same field blend I did this year with grapes from CA to see the difference.
> 
> Anyone know where to source such grapes in PA?



Not sure you’ll find “high quality” PA merlot, cab sauv, cab franc at all- let alone fruit available to home winemakers. There’s a good reason wine country is on the west coast. The popular varietals just don’t do as well out here. PA has some funky rules too. A local winery has to have 51% of their wines made from PA
Fruit. So they make the hybrids. And Marquette. Chamboricin etc etc. And typically their best sellers like Cab/merlot, Syrah etc they’re all from outsourced Cali fruit. Not exactly specified on the labels either. 
When buying bulk Some of the grape distributors will let you get less than full truck by just piggy backing your order in a truck going to a local winery. As long as the grapes you want harvest in sync with the wineries grapes. I won’t name names but the Problem I ran into was all the local joints were purchasing the cheaper fruit, which were harvested earlier then the grapes I wanted so this option didn’t work out.
Even the place you just got grapes from at Keystone. The winery behind them sources west coast fruit. Stone & Key Cellar. I know for a fact the red Mt. Cab I bought they are also making. In a couple years when that finally hits the shelf I’ll be damn curious to compare mine to theirs!

presque Isle is one of the few PA joints super friendly to home winemakers. Unfortunately they are across the state.otherwise the local joints don’t advertise it and ya need to network to establish some contacts for local fruit. Definitely can in Virginia, Maryland, NY finger lakes. But NJ and PA not as much.


----------



## franc1969 (Nov 28, 2020)

Kitchen said:


> I'd like to find somewhere to buy high quality PA grapes (Merlot, Cab Sav and Cab Franc), and do the same field blend I did this year with grapes from CA to see the difference.
> 
> Anyone know where to source such grapes in PA?


Even in the Virginia 'excess'sale listings this fall, no Cab Sauv or Merlot. Somewhere I did see Cab Franc, and I think one member here said he'd potentially found some.


----------



## Kitchen (Nov 29, 2020)

Oh well. Perhaps I'll experiment with WA state grapes next year instead of CA.


----------



## winemaker81 (Nov 29, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Not sure you’ll find “high quality” PA merlot, cab sauv, cab franc at all- let alone fruit available to home winemakers. There’s a good reason wine country is on the west coast. The popular varietals just don’t do as well out here.


The New York Finger Lakes and Long Island produce very good Vinifera. But Vinifera is harder to grow so most wineries grow the French-American hybrids and native grapes. I purchased some Vinifera when I lived in NY, but the cost was a LOT higher than the hybrids and native grapes.

I've had good Vinifera reds in Virginia and North Carolina, but IMO they were not as good as what I purchased in the Finger Lakes. The best reds I've had in NC were from grapes purchased out west ... Biltmore Estates has vineyards in CA.

That's a long way of saying that I mostly agree with you.  

@Kitchen, if the NY Finger Lakes are within a reasonable driving distance, search for Fulkerson Winery -- I used to purchase good grapes from them and it's still an active vineyard.


----------



## AaronSC (Nov 30, 2020)

I second the Fulkerson's suggestion -got grapes from them for ten years. If you want a great rosé try the grape called "Rosette" -you can buy the pressed juice from them.

I'm already pretty stoked about 2021. I just finished racking all the wines this weekend and won't touch them again until January. I'm interested in in trying some new varietals: Grenache blanc, Vermentino and Malvasia Bianca for whites; Grenache noir, Syrah, Carignan, Graciano for the reds. I'm up for anything, so if you in the Sierra Foothills or Lodi region and want someone to go in on a larger buy please contact me.


----------



## mainshipfred (Jan 20, 2021)

I think I posted this somewhere else that Gino Pintos plans on opening a facility in Ashland VA. I emailed Mike recently to see if they were still on track and his response is below

"Yes, we are working on it and should have something set up by spring. Please check back with me around April. Do you know what you want from South African? We will have in grapes Pinotage, Cab Sav and Barbera. Looking forward to hearing from you."

He specifically mentions S. African but I can't imagine they won't have Chilean as well. The only thing is he said "should have something set up by spring" which leaves a little uncertainty. Just thought I would mention it for those in this area.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Jan 20, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I think I posted this somewhere else that Gino Pintos plans on opening a facility in Ashland VA. I emailed Mike recently to see if they were still on track and his response is below
> 
> "Yes, we are working on it and should have something set up by spring. Please check back with me around April. Do you know what you want from South African? We will have in grapes Pinotage, Cab Sav and Barbera. Looking forward to hearing from you."
> 
> He specifically mentions S. African but I can't imagine they won't have Chilean as well. The only thing is he said "should have something set up by spring" which leaves a little uncertainty. Just thought I would mention it for those in this area.



Thanks Fred. I'm about to have several empty carboys. Maybe a little Chilean would be in order this year.


----------



## DaveMcC (Mar 21, 2021)

Just joining this thread as I start to wonder about source of grapes this coming season. I bought last November from a local winery that imports from CA. He receives grapes, crushes and I purchased 6 gallon buckets of must; CS from Paso Robles, OVZin from Lodi and Malbec from WA state. Expensive though, $155 to $175 per 6 gallon bucket of must. Wondering if I could do better on price if I bought west coast grapes myself. I spent about $1,600 on must last year, yielding 30 gallons in bulk storage now.


----------



## mainshipfred (Mar 21, 2021)

Where are you located?


----------



## DaveMcC (Mar 21, 2021)

Greenville/Spartanburg area of SC


----------



## sour_grapes (Mar 21, 2021)

DaveMcC said:


> Just joining this thread as I start to wonder about source of grapes this coming season. I bought last November from a local winery that imports from CA. He receives grapes, crushes and I purchased 6 gallon buckets of must; CS from Paso Robles, OVZin from Lodi and Malbec from WA state. Expensive though, $155 to $175 per 6 gallon bucket of must. Wondering if I could do better on price if I bought west coast grapes myself. I spent about $1,600 on must last year, yielding 30 gallons in bulk storage now.



IME, that does seem a bit spendy. However, shipping is the big unknown. Unless you are shipping in large quantities, it is a big cost/lb of grape.

Do you have any winemaking clubs in your area?


----------



## DaveMcC (Mar 21, 2021)

Not so much winemaking to have a club in these parts, I'm afraid. At least, not that I am aware of. Perhaps to the north in NC. Also exploring the frozen buckets of must, which are much less expensive. Any opinions on frozen v. "fresh"?


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 22, 2021)

@DaveMcC, S&H is the killer. I pay a lot more than folks on the west coast.

I'm part of a grape buying co-op based in Durham NC -- we make a bulk purchase of CA & WA grapes and limited juice. The large quantity (5+ tons total) reduces the S&H. We have guys coming from as far as Wilmington NC. The coordinator has a crusher/destemmer, and a lot of us crush on-site. My cost is about $110/5 gallon carboy of finished wine.

Durham appears to be a 3.5 to 4 hour drive. If you want more information, PM me.


----------



## Booty Juice (Mar 22, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> @DaveMcC, S&H is the killer. I pay a lot more than folks on the west coast.
> My cost is about $110/5 gallon carboy of finished wine.



That's a great price for the distance, the finished product, and the enjoyment.


----------



## DaveMcC (Mar 22, 2021)

Will do. Thanks, winemaker


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 22, 2021)

Booty Juice said:


> That's a great price for the distance, the finished product, and the enjoyment.


Yes! I'm coughing up a fair amount up front, but the wine will last a long time!

My actual per-bottle price is lower, as I make a 2nd run wine which produces an additional 50% of the wine. In 2019 my cost per bottle for the 2nd run was $0.38. Yes, 38 cents per bottle, including corks & capsules. My total average price per bottle was amazingly low, and my 2nd runs are very drinkable now.


----------



## JTS84 (Mar 22, 2021)

This spring I have a Chilean chenin blanc bucket coming, For the fall I am thinking of 3 lugs of merlot and 3 of Cab franc with the intent of blending some and leaving some as single varietals. I also plan to get a Nebbiolo bucket, and was thinking that I could get an extra lug of merlot and ferment them together. I've really enjoyed 10yr Nebbiolo's so I'd like to push this that direction. Open to suggestions there.
I don't know if I'll do local grapes this year, I'll have to post about last year's project in a separate thread.


----------



## SLM (Mar 25, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> I pay a lot more than folks on the west coast.



I don't know, that sounds like a bargain. I will be driving 4 hours to E WA this year to pick up from the vineyard and my price is $1.15-$1.25/lb. Your co-op definitely gives you some advantages.


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 25, 2021)

SLM said:


> I don't know, that sounds like a bargain. I will be driving 4 hours to E WA this year to pick up from the vineyard and my price is $1.15-$1.25/lb. Your co-op definitely gives you some advantages.


From posts by folks on the west coast, it appeared their prices are significantly better than I can get.

My selection is limited -- we get 1 shipment based upon when Cabernet Sauvignon & Merlot are available, so we are limited to grapes available then. I'm not complaining, just pointing out a limitation. We get a good selection, and I have access to grapes I'd not otherwise have. So yes, the co-op is a big benefit!


----------



## SLM (Mar 25, 2021)

Yes I'm sure the price comes down if you buy in bulk. I'm getting a minimum order, 500 lbs.


winemaker81 said:


> From posts by folks on the west coast, it appeared their prices are significantly better than I can get.


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 25, 2021)

My last order was 576 lbs (16 lugs), although our total order was over 5 tons. It makes a difference.


----------



## Tim3 (Mar 25, 2021)

Sounds like most of you are on the east coast, but for those of you in AZ I’ve been using Peddlers Sons for a few years and couldn’t speak more highly of them. I bought about 1,000 lbs of grapes last year for about $1.2 per lb. The grapes generally come from Central CA, but are in excellent condition. If you saignee they create excellent wines.


----------



## Ajmassa (Mar 27, 2021)

Finally put some thought into spring. Gettin stuck in my ways apparently. Goin malbec again. d80/254 combo. 
Will be a 20+ gal batch plus some extra for a full rosé carboy. 

x22 half lugs 
x18 malbec. x4 petite verdot. or some variation of this

will steal at least 6 or 7 gal of juice at crush for the rosè. 

Did a chilean malbec in ‘18 & ‘20. The ‘18 malbec produced the most virbrant inky purple wine i’ve ever made. And they came in with big acid. Hoping ‘21 is similar. adding PV and saigneé — will be tryin to get this sucker as big as i can. If some extra sugar is needed upfront to get >24.5brix then so be it —especially if acid is big again. Nit worried about keeping true to the varietal. I just want a big ass wine. 
also big wine- big oak? Might be an excuse to try out a 50L American barrel for the 1st time. 

I do love the spring season. And one of the best things about it —- NO FRUIT FLIES!


----------



## CDrew (Mar 27, 2021)

@Ajmassa = Lord of the Flies


----------



## Booty Juice (Mar 28, 2021)

CDrew said:


> @Ajmassa = Lord of the Flies




Lol aren't we all. FANS. Keep the air moving enough so the little effers can't fly.


----------



## stickman (Mar 28, 2021)

After that last batch, I think @Ajmassa might have gotten a fruit fly tattoo.


----------



## SLM (Mar 28, 2021)




----------



## Ajmassa (Mar 28, 2021)

Jersey has been brutal recently! it was a non issue in PA. I was trying to find an old thread where @JohnT detailed his struggle when he lived up here. couldn’t find though. 

Thru trial & error I basically had to train my muscle memory to take every little precaution. no wine stained paper towels left out. trash can w/ sealed lid. rinse everything immediately. fan constantly running. traps, tape, tightly covered fermenters. etc. But despite all that—at the height of the season, mid september, there’s no avoiding them. can’t even have an apple out let alone 100’s lbs of fermenting crushed grapes. 

So in spring i still take the precautions just because of habit but a lot more relaxed. and it’s a joy. 

Also- for whatever reason i’ve dismissed american barrels till now. lookin forward to potentially gettin one.


----------

