# Use an Airlock During Primary Fermentation?



## stolen

I'm just about to start making my first batch, and saw very different opinions on whether to use an airlock during the primary fermentation phase. My grandfather and father always used an airlock, but i see online that others say that it should remain exposed to air as the yeast needs air to ferment. I have an airlock on it now, but wanted to get everyone's opinion.


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## Tom

1st Welcome.
Our "leader" lives near you
If in a bucket lat the lid on top till gravity is 1.030 then snap it shut w/ airlock
The yeast like O2 to multiply


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## Dugger

As Tom says, you're probably better off doing the primary phase of fermentation under a loose lid. Any wine you make that has something floating in it at this phase ( grapes, fruit, berries, grapepack, oak, etc.) should be punched down daily to keep them wet and increase exposure to the wine. This activity also introduces oxygen which is needed as Tom notes. A loose lid also allows you easy access to monitor your fermentation.
If you make kits only and there are no floatables ( that has a nasty ring to it!) then you can put it under a tight lid and airlock but make sure you mix the must very well at the beginning to get lots of oxygen in there.
The secondary phase of fermentation can be done either in the bucket under an airlock or transferred to a carboy under airlock, depending on your personal protocol or your kit instructions.
Good luck with your first batch - what is it?


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## Julie

Hi stolen,

Welcome to winemakingtalk and like Tom said leave the lid loose for awhile. Maybe "Our Leader" will be in to comment he does live in CT not sure how close he is to you but he should know.


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## robie

No matter what is said, there are two distinct phases to fermentation.
1) Aerobic phase:
Oxygen is required for healthy yeast. This phase lasts until the SG is about 1.010 to 1.020. If you get the rotten egg smell during this first phase, it is likely because the yeast are either starved for oxygen or they need a nutrient. Most (but not all) wine kits do not require a nutrient to be added.
2) Anaerobic phase:
Oxygen should be kept away from the wine, as the yeast no longer need oxygen and the wine surely doesn't need it, either. This phase starts at about SG 1.010 to 1.020, right after the previous stage.

Some kit instructions say to seal the wine during both phases. This is more because they are concerned the wine will get oxidized, since a wine, such as a weak mist kit, can survive the aerobic phase sealed. (Better to starve the yeast than have oxidation, I guess.) This, however, is not the best for your wine. Learn to protect your wine from oxygen without having to starve your yeast of oxygen during that first phase. 

During the first stage, very little oxygen can get to the wine, anyway. The CO2 is bubbling out very strongly and is heavier than oxygen, so it protects the wine by pushing out almost all the oxygen. During the second stage there is much less CO2 to displace the oxygen. Hence, you seal the carboy with an air lock that lets out the excess CO2 and won't let air in.

Kits with grape packs can usually survive being sealed during the first phase, because you have to open the lid at least twice a day to push down the grape pack cap. This generally lets in enough oxygen to "get by".

If you want a good fermentation, don't seal the lid down during aerobic fermentation. put the lid on in such a way as to keep flies out. Place a cloth over the air lock's hole and maybe even place a towel over the top of the lid to protect it.


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## stolen

All good advice, i think ill let it breathe. Gnats here are sneaky little buggers, so rather than setting the lid on top or putting a cloth over the hole, ill put a little piece of tissue in the hole I'm using for the airlock. My fermentation seems to be much slower than I remember my grandfathers being, maybe because the yeast needs to multiply.

I wanted to do a cab this year, but i didnt like the sample at the home brew place i went to. So, going for an old vine zin instead.


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## Runningwolf

Hey Stolen, welcome to our forum. As the others said the leader (master) is also from CT. Wade will be the first to tell you though this is not his forum, it is the members. He along with the Moderators are just here to facilitate. Keep the questions coming because as you have noticed there are a ton of folks that love to give guidance. We all shoot for the same end result just have different ways to get there. You will have to decide what works best for you.


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## robie

The towel over the top will help with those gnats. They can sneak in under the lid sometimes. If you don't want to leave the lid loose, open the lid about once a day and stir in some ait into the wine. (I call it wine because once the yeast has been pitched, legally, it is wine.)

If you didn't like the cab you sampled, try another, bigger kit someplace else.
By the way, from what kit was that cab sample made and how long ago was it made? New wine can be very VERY tart.

When I started making kit wine, I was concerned how tasty the kit wines would turn out to be. I joined a local wine club. There were at least 10 bottles of different kit wines at each meeting. They were good enough to convince me to start making my on.

Good luck and enjoy!


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## stolen

The juice is from Valley Beauty, and the cab was 2 years old, which should surely be long enough to taste better than it did. The old vine zin tasted much better, and is still good in my book, so i went with that. I'll probably do a malbec in the spring as well.


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## robie

Our fearless leader will get on here soon. Since he lives nearer to you, he can give you some ideas about where to by and what to buy.

One of this forum's sponsors is The Wine Maker's Toy Store. They are a long ways from you, but lots of us, near and far, order from them. When you read about "George", we are likely talking about the owner of this store.

My advice is to order the best kit you can get - the so called Ultra-premium kits. In the long run, they make the best wine. (Others WILL disagree, but, hey, that's OK. Having more than one opinion is really nice.)


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## Wade E

Welcome Ct'er! There are a few on here. Ive been making wine for some time now and I do snap the lid shut on mine but do open at least once a day to stir or punch down the cap depending on what Im making. Where abouts you getting your supplies from? I get most of mine from http://finevinewines.com/ but get my grapes from http://www.maltose.com/Construction/Wine_Making.html which is in Monroe. There is a place closer to you where ypou can get good grapes but its not a website and you will have to call him.
Homemade Libations-Cocchia Norwalk Grape Co.
25 Ely Ave.
Norwalk, Connecticut 06854
203-855-7911
He sells good grapes and also fresh juices.


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## Ken914

I use an airlock and daily stir well during primary fermentation.

Because of space limitations, I make wine in my kitchen. Also in the kitchen, there are several different fresh breads being made from scratch throughout the week. I'm a little paranoid about introducing some of these other yeasties into my must.

Is my concern unreasonable?


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## NSwiner

All I can say for this time of year here is if i didn't have the lid on tight with an airlock I'd have so many fruit flies it would be unbelievable . As it was when I was stirring in the sugar and yeast they came out of the wood work and I had a couple land in my apple cider . The only thing I don't lid tightly is skeeter Pee for the first few days .


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## jet

Ken914 said:


> I use an airlock and daily stir well during primary fermentation.
> 
> Because of space limitations, I make wine in my kitchen. Also in the kitchen, there are several different fresh breads being made from scratch throughout the week. I'm a little paranoid about introducing some of these other yeasties into my must.
> 
> Is my concern unreasonable?



I make 1+ loaves of sandwich bread a week but never considered it to be a threat. I'd like to think that the hardy wine yeast and SO2 would win out over any airborne bread yeast, but that's just a WAG.


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## stolen

Thank you. I actually ordered my juice and got supplies from Maltose, which according to online reviews was one of the best in the state. The staff was very friendly and helpful, but the wine at their wine tasting was a little unimpressive. Maybe it was a fluke, but it steered me away from the cab. The old vine zin seemed to be be the least of the evils.


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## Wade E

When it comes to Maltose, they sell good products but really arent good wine makers nor do they usually offer good advice on wine making. I once asked them what yeast for a sweeter wine and they stated EC1118! Knowing myself that it doesnt matter what yeast you use it should always ferment to dry and then be sweetened but just wanted to hear what they would say. EC1118 is pretty much a yeast that will always go to dry even if you were trying to make it quit before fermenting all the way out which isnt advised for anyone without a sterile filtration unit to rid the wine of any yeast cells persent. You also have to watch with buying fresh juices later in the season as even though they are kept very cold in their refridgerated back room at about 40* it still starts fermenting on its own. I actually bought a bucket of fresh juice a few months later then when they came in and when I brought it home the sg was down to 1.030 in the bucket. I made them give me some money back on that even though they already were giving discounts on them. They are mainly beer people there and they now their beer very well, if you have wine associated questions come here or even beer as we do that here also. There are a few of us here that are very good beer makers. I myself have done the no boil beer kits, partial mash and now all grain with a completely home made 3 tiered brewing system.


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## stolen

Thanks Wade, that makes me feel much better. I was worried that with low quality juice I'd end up with a mediocre batch, but if you think the juice they get is good and they just presented poorly made wine, I'll sleep a little better tonight. As far as fermenting in the bucket, yeah, that happened with my father's batch a few years ago. Must have warmed up in transport, but it turned out ok in the long run.

On a separate note, my juice seems to be fermenting much more rapidly since removing the airlock. I'll check its sg later tonight. Thanks for the help all!


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## stolen

Well, its been a few months and i think its time to rack again. Was going to transfer the must back into the bucket it came in (after i clean it thoroughly, of course) using a racking cane to prevent sediment from the transfer. Then, ill clean the sediment out of the carboy and then transfer the wine back into the carboy, then put the airlock back on. Any last minute tips or advice from the experts? I remember my grandfather just using ordinary soap when he cleaned out the carboys and bottles. Anyone see an issue with this, or should I get a sanitation product?


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## wvbrewer

I have always used a towel for the primary fermentation, then used a airlock for the secondary wtih no problems. Go with what you feel is right. This is supposed to be fun.


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## Peterock

stolen said:


> Well, its been a few months and i think its time to rack again. Was going to transfer the must back into the bucket it came in (after i clean it thoroughly, of course) using a racking cane to prevent sediment from the transfer. Then, ill clean the sediment out of the carboy and then transfer the wine back into the carboy, then put the airlock back on. Any last minute tips or advice from the experts? I remember my grandfather just using ordinary soap when he cleaned out the carboys and bottles. Anyone see an issue with this, or should I get a sanitation product?



Hi Stolen, Trumbull native here. Soap and water is NOT going to cut it. Have others done it and got away with it......Maybe. Don't chance it! You need to clean(soap water) THEN sanitize the Bucket and the Carboy even racking cane and anything that is going to touch your wine before transfering. I and most everyone here use Potasium Sulfite or AKA K=meta or Camden tablets to sanatize with. If in a pinch can use bleach and water but then you MUST rinse throughly. Also don't forget to top up the carboy, Leave NO head space and don't add water.


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## stolen

Ok, I got some sulfite that I'll use to sterilize everything. Ive seen a few places that seem to suggest adding some to the must during racking as well. Opinions anyone?


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## Brian

Hey stolen, Not sure what stage of the game you are in right now but the times I add it are pre fermentation, once it is finished and starting to age and then every 3 months after..


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## Peterock

Don't add any sulfite unless you are sure that fermentation is done. Take S.G. reading for 3 days. If it's the same each day its done. Have you kept primary and secondary in proper temps? Colder temps will slow fermentation down to the point that airlock will have very little action and fool people into thinking it's done. Only way to know is by S.G. readings. If you do not have hydrometer go out and get one its a key piece of equipment.
Pete


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## stolen

I decided to just start a new thread...

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=106542


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## Drybonecellars

I know it's been close to six years since the original post, so my apologies for the delay, but I wanted to post a solution for the common fruit fly situation in case someone new views the forum. I recommend going to your local brew / wine store and picking up the largest fermentation nylon bag. Drape it over the top of the bucket and tie down with a nylon string or twine. It allows oxygen to come and go as the yeast craves it, while at the same time preventing fruit flys due to the micro-gaps in the nylon threading. We do this at our commercial facility and it's worked great for years.


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