# Carmenere low Tartaric?



## pgentile (May 4, 2016)

De-stemmed and crushed 5 lugs of Carmenere this afternoon. Numbers are as follows:

PH 3.2 TA .44 Brix 23

Tartaric is Low? I have a BSG wine acid test kit, measured it twice. Should I measure TA with the PH meter method? 

I'm going to measure everything again tomorrow before I pitch.

Would you add Tartaric acid with these numbers?


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## Johnd (May 4, 2016)

pgentile said:


> De-stemmed and crushed 5 lugs of Carmenere this afternoon. Numbers are as follows:
> 
> PH 3.2 TA .44 Brix 23
> 
> ...



I'd try testing again, using your ph meter (calibrated) to determine when you hit 8.2, see where that gets you. Also, make sure your reagent isn't too old, some folks have recently had issues with this. 

At your current readings, your ph is pretty low for a.44 TA, see what a retesting yields.......


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## pkm925 (May 5, 2016)

I have had this same issue with Chilean juice. In fact this year my readings are almost identical to yours, ph 3.2 and T/A 4.0.

I think the issue is Malic Acid. What I do is use Potassium Bicarbonate (0.67g per L) to bring the PH up and lose some of that Malic. I get the PH a little higher than my target level and then follow up with a T/A addition which will reduce my PH and increase my T/A. 

If you use Potassium Bicarbonate be sure to cold stabilize. 

I believe that T/A tests do not show Malic or other acids then Tartaric. Your PH meter readings will reflect all the acids in your wine. 

I always use a PH meter to run T/A tests. I can never spot the color change with red wine.

Regards,
Kevin


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## sour_grapes (May 5, 2016)

pkm925 said:


> I believe that T/A tests do not show Malic or other acids then Tartaric.



This is not correct. TA does not stand for "tartaric acid." It stands for "titratable acid." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titratable_acid . TA tests respond to ANY acid that can give up a proton.


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## geek (May 5, 2016)

Following...


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## pgentile (May 5, 2016)

Calibrated my pH meter this afternoon, got everything squared away there. And the numbers are much better.

pH 3.45 TA .55 brix 23

So should I let these ride or adjust with some tartaric acid?


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## Julie (May 5, 2016)

Your ph is within the correct range, you could let it ride and adjust acid after fermentation.


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## Boatboy24 (May 5, 2016)

I agree with Julie. Let it roll. Fermentation and MLF will change those numbers - adjust after those are finished (if necessary).


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## vacuumpumpman (May 5, 2016)

Mine is going to MLF on its own - very lucky !


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## pgentile (May 5, 2016)

Thanks for the input everyone. Made no changes. Pitched RC-212. Here we go.


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## Johnd (May 6, 2016)

pgentile said:


> Thanks for the input everyone. Made no changes. Pitched RC-212. Here we go.



Glad you retested with the ph meter, had you started making adjustments on your first readings, could've gone south quickly.


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## pgentile (May 6, 2016)

John, me as well. Too much time and effort to have false readings lead to wrong adjustments. Cap is up already and aroma very nice.


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