# Purchasing 30 gal barrel - keeping it full



## homebrewdude (Jul 3, 2012)

I plan on purchasing a 100 or 120 liter Vadai oak barrel this year.

I am trying to work out a plan to keep it full and not over oak the wines.

1st use
Barrel Ferment a White - cool 2-3 weeks?
Clean out the barrel from fermentation
Rack the white back in and add MLF

2 weeks later rack our white and add first red
3-4 months? Rack out red and add 2nd red
2nd red last me a year?

Any thoughts?


----------



## ibglowin (Jul 3, 2012)

One thing is once you place MLB into a barrel its pretty much "infected" so to speak. Make sure what ever else you put in after that can handle MLF (i.e. no kit wines). If you are diligent about keeping up levels of SO2 and or add lysozyme you can keep it at bay if you needed to.

For a 100 -120 L barrel I would think you could get more time from that first big red. Instead of 3-4 months, more like 4-6 months. The one thing I have noticed since switching over to barrels is that the oak seems to fade over time on the first few batches that took the big hit of new oak. I just ended up rotating those back through for another couple of months to give them more micro ox and concentration time. Worked out very well. Thats a big barrel, whatcha going to keep it filled with!?


----------



## JohnT (Jul 3, 2012)

Do you have a reason for fermenting in the barrel?

I would recomend that you ferment in an alternate, primary fermenter (one that is easier to clean) then at first racking or second racking (even better), you could then transfer to the barrel. 

I have only two reasons for recomending this. First, I feel that the yeast layer will serve as a barrier between the oak and wood. You WANT contact between the wine aand wood. The wine needs to soak into the wood to get at the "flavor layer" just below the char. Also, the yeast layer will inhibit mico-oxydation that is also desired. 

Additionally, 

I do not think that just a couple of weeks is enough time for wine to sit in a barrel. It would think it should, instead, be a couple of months. Sample the wine every couple of weeks and debarrel once you acchieved the flavor that is right for you.


----------



## homebrewdude (Jul 3, 2012)

Well I was reading other posts about leaving wine in the barrel for weeks at a time to avoid over oaking.
The longer the better for me. I just want to make sure I have enough wine to keep it full until the next season. 
So you are saying due to the size of the barrel running 2 reds through it should keep it full for 12 months?

Why do I want to barrel ferment the white? Cause it is a new barrel and I can! Only one chance to do this! 
After the fermentation I will clean all the old yeast out and never do it again.
The future of the barrel will always be a big dry red from fresh grapes. I always MLF these.


----------



## ibglowin (Jul 4, 2012)

I think its doable at that size. Yes, the larger the barrel the smaller the ratio of surface area (interior) to gallons of wine. A small 23L barrel can only go about 4 weeks max on the first run. It would be nice if you had 3 batches in a year to put in the first year but I think 2 could also work. I would shoot for 5 months then 7 months. Like I said, its OK to go a little over on the oak because I have always seen the oak fall back 4-5 months after removing from barrel and back to carboy. With that in mind you could say pull batch 2 out after only 6 months and put batch one in for another month or so and by then you will have crush from the next years grapes ready to go in the barrel.

Remember you will need some good SO2 monitoring equipment such as a Vinemtrica or A/O rig. Your SO2 levels will drop down to very low levels by the time you pull the wine out of the barrel requiring a hefty top off dose to bring you back up to a safe level of protection.


----------



## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 4, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> I think its doable at that size. Yes, the larger the barrel the smaller the ratio of surface area (interior) to gallons of wine. A small 23L barrel can only go about 4 weeks max on the first run. It would be nice if you had 3 batches in a year to put in the first year but I think 2 could also work. I would shoot for 5 months then 7 months. Like I said, its OK to go a little over on the oak because I have always seen the oak fall back 4-5 months after removing from barrel and back to carboy. With that in mind you could say pull batch 2 out after only 6 months and put batch one in for another month or so and by then you will have crush from the next years grapes ready to go in the barrel.
> 
> Remember you will need some good SO2 monitoring equipment such as a Vinemtrica or A/O rig. Your SO2 levels will drop down to very low levels by the time you pull the wine out of the barrel requiring a hefty top off dose to bring you back up to a safe level of protection.



First I would say a big red will have no problem if left for one year in a new 30 gallon barrel. It also gives the barrel a chance to work. But you can certainly go 6 months and refill. Oak seems to fade after bottling so making a good determination by tasting a barrel sample can be deceiving especially if you have not worked with barrels before.

I agree that you might as well go for a Barrel ferment of White it is your only chance with the barrel unless you stored the Barrel for future White ferments.
A Buttery Oakey MLFed Chardonnay would be the goal for me.

As far as the SO2 protection what Ibglowin is saying is more than true. You cannot imagine the loss of S02 in barrels. Some winemakers when using a 60 gallon barrel for 2 years on a wine will not add any additional So2 until the wine is removed. It seems drastic but they want the O2 to be working on the wine and the thinking is the so2 gets in the way. But two years with little or no protection requires very little frequency of topping and opening for tasting. For my 60 gallon 2 year wines I add 40 ppm at one year. Its gone after 6 months. New barrels are worse at this. I don't know why. All I do know is if you want the wine to last when bottled you will have to correct the So2 level before you bottle and without a testing device I would assume you have zero Free So2 after 6 months.
Malvina


----------



## altavino (Jul 5, 2012)

I agree that you should try a barrel fermentd chardonnay , it is really your only chance to make one.

what will happen is the active yeast will metabolise some of the compounds in the oak , this bufferes the oak a bit so protects the white wine from tasteing like a plank.
the result is a well integrated oak character that only comes from barrel fermenting. ( most barrel fermented chard is also put through mlf ) , go buy a couple nice bottles of white burgundy to see what I mean. They achieve the subtlty of a classic white burgundy by barrel fermenting the chardonnay. the barrels are then pressed into service ageing pinot noir.

leaving a chardonnay in brand new oak for a few months (as opposed to barrel fermenting) will result in a liquid lumber chateau de home depot chardonnay. ferment it in the oak!! fill the barrel 75% to allow room for the ferment and rack out as soon as its dry.

the second benifit is that the barrel ferment will soften the barrel in a gentle way and make it a good home for your red wine to go into extending the ageing time on the second fill.


----------



## joea132 (Jul 5, 2012)

After reading this I'm going to barrel ferment a chardonnay this year too. I've been dying to get a barrel and 30 gallons is the perfect size for me.


----------



## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 6, 2012)

Hi Joe
I notice you are in CT and I don't know if you are aware but M&M Grape Company has the sweetest 27 French Oak Barrrel. The Craftsmanship is really nice and it has 8 hoops instead of the usual 6. Better yet the price is good and you don't have to worry about shipping. I have used them and they are a great value for French Oak if that is your preference. They also have this barrel in a 13.8 equally nice.
Malvina


----------



## joea132 (Jul 15, 2012)

I went and ordered a 27 gallon french oak barrel because of this post. Thanks for the inspiration!


----------



## Runningwolf (Jul 15, 2012)

Congratulations! Lots of great information given above here.


----------



## winebarrels (Jul 17, 2012)

these barrels are made of french oak or american oak?


----------



## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 17, 2012)

winebarrels said:


> these barrels are made of french oak or american oak?



_Hi Joe
I notice you are in CT and I don't know if you are aware but M&M Grape Company has the sweetest 27 French Oak Barrrel. The Craftsmanship is really nice and it has 8 hoops instead of the usual 6. Better yet the price is good and you don't have to worry about shipping. I have used them and they are a great value for French Oak if that is your preference. They also have this barrel in a 13.8 equally nice.
Malvina
MalvinaScordaad is online now Report Post _


----------



## carmine (Jul 17, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> _Hi Joe_
> _I notice you are in CT and I don't know if you are aware but M&M Grape Company has the sweetest 27 French Oak Barrrel. The Craftsmanship is really nice and it has 8 hoops instead of the usual 6. Better yet the price is good and you don't have to worry about shipping. I have used them and they are a great value for French Oak if that is your preference. They also have this barrel in a 13.8 equally nice._
> _Malvina_
> _MalvinaScordaad is online now Report Post _[/QUOTE Frank has some nice Barells I bought one 27 gallon and so did Rocky My brother Claud bought 2 of the 13.8 Barells nice tight grains


----------

