# Yeast



## Hippie (Mar 1, 2005)

I like D47 and 71B-1122 best, for fruitiness. For problem musts, you will not beat good ol EC-1118.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm for Montrachet. It usually tastes very fruity.





I will never use Cotes de Blanc again. I had of 3 packets of it, 2 of which turned out to be stuck fermentations. ANd they were still "fresh" (hadn't expired). 





I'm limited to Red-Star yeasts around here (I buy locally because I can get them quite reasonably, for once). Does anyone else have good suggestions? My basement is roughly 60* (winter) and 68* in the summer.





Thanks!


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## Hippie (Mar 1, 2005)

The only one that will ferment reliably at 60*F is champagne yeast, Lalvin EC-1118, not sure what the red star equivalent is.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 1, 2005)

Well, I do have a brew belt around 2 5-gallon carboys most of the time. The temps mentioned above are all the ambient temps.


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## Hippie (Mar 2, 2005)

OIC, ambience.I must have a good ambience surrounding me almost constantly.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 2, 2005)

AMBIENT! Not ambience, dear!!!





You know, surrounding temp? Air temp?


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## Hippie (Mar 5, 2005)

OK, sorry. Yes, yeast need a fairly steady ambient temperature during the fermentation process. They do not like ups and downs.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 5, 2005)

no need to be sorry, dear.... 








But you are correct with the ambience surrounding you. Even though I was talking about the temps in my basement.









Does the Lalvin EC-1118 have a fruity taste and is it good for "weirdo Martina wines?"


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## Hippie (Mar 5, 2005)

EC-1118 is very good yeast for musts with high SG or for over sulphited musts, and very good for something new that you are not sure about, it will ferment at low temps and high temps. It will not help with fruit, however. Very neutral. I have fed it to 21% abv, but most of the time 18% is the limit.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 5, 2005)

Thank you for that information. I will use it the next time I get some yeast.


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## Hippie (Mar 6, 2005)

Sure. My current favorite is Lalvin 71B-1122. It seems to leave alot of fruit taste. D47 ain't bad at all either, I use it for extended lees contact and lees stirring. (battonage) Definitely gives a different feel to the palate.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 9, 2005)

Alright, since I'm a yeast dummie, what should I use? 





Should I switch to Lalvin? Is that better?


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## Hippie (Mar 10, 2005)

Not neccessarily better, but there are alot of strains besides Montrachet.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 10, 2005)

I know. But since my Cotes de Blanc disaster, I'm leery. You mentioned you've used other types of yeast for your wines. Do you think they'd be okay to use in my rather cold basement (but I do have a brew-belt and a heating pad)?


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## Hippie (Mar 11, 2005)

Tell ya what, get some Lalvin K1V-1116. It is alot like EC-1118, but usually leaves a fruitier profile than neutral.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 11, 2005)

Aye, aye sir! It's written down on my list now!


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## Hippie (Mar 14, 2005)

Wow, this power of suggestion works!I have to say Lalvin 71B-1122 and D47 are tied for my favorites so far.


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## MedPretzel (Mar 14, 2005)

why are they your favorites over the Lalvin K1V-1116? Is it just the temp thing?


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## Hippie (Mar 14, 2005)

No, actually those 2 are more particular about temperaturethan the K1V or the EC-1118. They both just seem to keep alot more of the fruit in the wine, especially the 71B, and it also metabolizes some (I think up to a 3rd) of the malic acid. Supposedly changes it to some good sensory compound, whatever they are called. Phenolics?


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## MedPretzel (Mar 15, 2005)

Ugh, there's that chemistry again.









I will have to try each of them out for myself, I guess.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 15, 2005)

One generally falls favorite to a particular type of yeast especaially when they are successful in completing a wine of acceptable flavor, etc. Then later, another leap for mankind...experimenting beyond....where no man has gone...learning trying...yes (happy)...learning...trying... oops! (oh well)...learning...trying...yes. etc. Then one day....*"Oh ya Baby!!!"




*


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## Hippie (Mar 15, 2005)

I agree, Joe, but I still use a variety depending on what I am fermenting, it's just that I do alot of fruit with high malic acid like blackberries and muscadines, and also the D47 suits my style and habits with white and lighter colored wines such as peach and scuppernong.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 15, 2005)

I have been doing much reading lately on the yeast. I agree with you about D-47, and others,and have recently ordered some from George to try. That was my intent on the previous message regarding experimenting with a variety..then, *"Oh Ya Baby!"* Guessmy message was not ...


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## Hippie (Mar 16, 2005)

No, really I got it, I just thought you didn't get mine. 


I have been liking the D47 also with darker wines that are a little high ph and maybe a little thin and not oaked. Sorta nouveau style.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 16, 2005)

Interesting...reading in one thing-first hand info is retainable. I am trying 1122 in the fruit wines now going for the more "fruity character" compared to 1118 which seemed quite neutral for me.


So I have started by doubling a 1-gallon experiement, prior to pitching the yeast, I spit them into two (2) primaries, then introduce each with a different yeast and monitor both side by side. 


That's why I had to order more yeast from George to continue this theory of comparison. I find it rather hard to confirm my notes by written description of each at a later date.


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## Hippie (Mar 16, 2005)

By all means, please post that valuable info here when you get it.


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## Maui Joe (Mar 19, 2005)

I started a comparison today. I was in great hopes that my recent order would arrive but it did not. So, in this comparision(experiement) I made a two (2) gallon primary mix of Surinam cherries, starfruit, and used Niagara as a base, etc. Used 1118, and 1116 which I have on hand(was anxious to start) 24 hours later after splitting them to 1-gallon primaries. We'll see from here. (For those that are concerned whether or not I sprinkled the yeast-yes I did) close notes will be in order as well as other experiments. I have approx. 20 one (1) gallon empties to fiddle with. To avoid "mass" confusion and alot of work, I will try to "space them approximately two (2) weeks apart if my plan is not interrupted....


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## Hippie (Mar 19, 2005)

My guess is that you will not detect alot of sensory differences in the 2 wines. Those 2 yeast strains are very similar.


This will get very interesting I think with all those jugs!


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## Maui Joe (Mar 19, 2005)

I agree, I thought that I had others in the frige after I commenced. That's why I was abit upset that the mailman didn't come...most often he doeswith alot of bills. I waited for him today like a kid waiting forthe "old ice cream wagon." Had to do something. It will be a close challenge to denote any differences...might be interesting to test my senses anyway!


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## Hippie (Mar 19, 2005)

Yes, could be a good exercise in winemaking and sensory perception also. I am very interested.


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## jshuey (Apr 3, 2005)

I've noticed several posts referring to Montrachet yeast. I'd be very careful with Montrachet...it has been impicated in excess sulphur production during fermentations and, in fact, its use has been discontinued by quite a number of winemakers...professional as well as amateur.


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## MedPretzel (Apr 3, 2005)

What are the implications of excess sulphur production during fermentation?





Since I haven't died yet, and it isn't banned from the FDA, I am assuming that it can't be that lethal. Please explain!


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## Hippie (Apr 3, 2005)

I too have not heard of this, John. Please post links to the problems if you have any. Thanks.


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## jshuey (Apr 3, 2005)

Never said it was dangerous. But it does produce off-smells and tastes if you're attuned to such things.


Here are a few stories w/the reference...I've see and/or heard more, but these should raise a red flag if anyone is interested.
http://www.winemakermag.com/feature/55.html
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http://www.winemakermag.com/feature/85.html

http://www.winemakermag.com/feature/108.html


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## greenbean (Apr 3, 2005)

I think he is talking about Sulferdioxide. It smells like rotten eggs and some people might throw out a good wine just because it smells bad.


To get rid of the smell you can use coppersulfate but be carefull be cause too much can be POISONOUS. The safest way to and the way I prefer is toget a copper spoon and stir the wine. With the spoon you don't need to be worried about copper poisoning. Also alot of agitation can help the smell but you introduce alot of oxygen to the wine and run the risk of making the wine oxidize.


Chris


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## MedPretzel (Apr 4, 2005)

I see. I guess it's the Montrachet instead of the cabbage in my cabbage wine, huh?!?


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## Hippie (Apr 6, 2005)

I had to make a new starter just now for the 04 Scuppernong must:


half cup must, half cup hot water, quarter tsp. nutrient, eighth tsp. energizer, swirled in quart jar until temp down to 86*F, sprinkled 5 grams Lalvin ICV-D47 yeast on top, will add eighth cup of must ever 12 hours or so


I am thinking SO2 so high in must the D47 couldn't work on it's own. Originally pitched directly into bucket yesterday morning, no evidence of fermentation this morning








Well now I could kick myself for wasting a pack of yeast! At 1 pm when I decided it wasn't going to start on it's own, I stirred the bageebees out of the must before getting some for the starter. It is now 2:30 pm and the airlock on top of the bucket is bubbling like crazy! 


LESSON LEARNED: GIVE IT TIME!!!











*Edited by: Country Wine *


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## Maui Joe (Apr 6, 2005)

Aloha CW,


This happened to me once last week when the outside temp. was at 69 degrees. Before making a new starter, I tried what I heard that would probably workif the original yeast was not in "total shock," I used a hand-wisp creating more oxygen then warmed up the must by inserting a container with hot water placed in the gallon primary. The temp came up to 74 and about 30 minutes later, I got some action going.



So much work to make things happen!


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## Hippie (Apr 6, 2005)

Hi Joe! Edited the post above yours, above!


I reckon I will just continue to grow this starter and pitch it in a couple of days. It will still yet serve to make it all alot stronger, I knew the grapes had too much SO2 to begin with, and also knew the D47 is very tolerate of high SO2, just got impatient. 











*Edited by: Country Wine *


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## Maui Joe (Apr 6, 2005)

Now that is a "healthy starter!"


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## Hippie (Apr 6, 2005)

Yeah, it is realy gettin with it! Maybe that monster on the Scooby Doo paper towel is scairing it into a hurry!


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## AAASTINKIE (Apr 16, 2005)

I was reading all the newsletters the other day and one is about yeast,
I coppied this cause I get RedStar yeast at the local healthfood store
(local being 50 miles away).





*Red Star</span></font>*


<ul ="disc">
<li ="Msonormal" style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">*Pasteur Red - Good for full-bodied red wines like Cabernet. Brings
out fruit flavors and aromas. 16% alcohol level. </span></font>*<li ="Msonormal" style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">*Montrachet - Multi-purpose yeast good for fruit wines which helps to
bring out the body and color. Downside is its low alcohol tolerance of
13%. </span></font>*<li ="Msonormal" style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">*Cote des Blancs - Low alcohol yeast (12-14%) used in wines when a
level of residual sugar is desired in the finished wine. Excellent for
sparkling wines. </span></font>*<li ="Msonormal" style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">*Pasteur Champagne - Another multi-purpose yeast with a moderate
tolerance to alcohol (13-15%). Very good for restarting stuck
fermentations. </span></font>*<li ="Msonormal" style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">*Premier Cuvee - High alcohol tolerance (18%) that should not be used
when ML fermentation is desired. Also used to restart stuck fermentations.
</span></font>*
[/list]


*there
was a list for other brands as well, lots of good info in the back
newsletters. I'm going to get me some Premier Cuvee and make me some
high test Welches wine.





</span></font>*


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## Hippie (Apr 16, 2005)

Stinkie, if you use enough concentrate, reconstituted with 2 cans water instead of 3 and use american oak, you can have a pretty good port, sweetened up a tad and ready for aging.


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## AAASTINKIE (Apr 16, 2005)

I don't use concentrate, I use the bottled juice.


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## Hippie (Apr 16, 2005)

Do you use it straight, or add water? I was just giving you a hint on how to increase body and make a strongdessert wine that will age well. *Edited by: Country Wine *


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## AAASTINKIE (Apr 17, 2005)

the batch I just bottled was half juice half water PA 13.5, there is a
batch in the carboy that has been stablized and fined that is strait
juice with a PA of 12, I'm going to start another 50/50 batch.


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## AAASTINKIE (Apr 19, 2005)

When I bought yeast the other day I noticed one type had a good till date on the pack, the other two types had codes on them, I emailed Red Star and asked how to read the codes, the reply I recieved yesterday (I'll post it tonight) sounds to me (I was thinking about it on the way to work today) like my yeast might be old. I think he said they use dates now and to send him the codes and he will tell me if it's still good, that their yeast has a shelf life of 3 years, I'm going to send him the codes tonight. If you look on the read only blueberry board, you will see when I proofed the yeast it didn't thrill me. I am getting some action but very slow started at 1.097 SG on the 4th, last night 1.060 SG 14 days later. Red Star Montrachet yeast.


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## AAASTINKIE (Apr 20, 2005)

I emailed the codes to Red Star last night, my must is gassing very slow, I'll take a SG tonight or tomorrow, then I'm thinkig of proofing one of the other yeasts I have to see if it's livelier in the cup than the Montrachet was when I proofed it, I should have the answer from Red Star tonight also.


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## Hippie (Apr 20, 2005)

The slow ferment will be just fine, Stinkie, you worry too much. The wine will be better for the slow ferment. If you did not use yeast nutrient, add a little now. If you have yeast energizer, and didn't use any, add that too. It will be fine.


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## Berrywine (Apr 27, 2005)

Country, what is the difference between nutrient and energizier? is one better to use than the other? Do they need to be used together or separately? I use the nutrient, never used the energizer.


berry


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## MedPretzel (May 23, 2005)

Nutrient feeds them so they replicate.





Energizer kicks their metabolism in gear. (Hyperthyroidism in yeast?)





I use both together.


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## Berrywine (May 23, 2005)

thank you very much Ms. Med... I've been waiting for a answer...






berry


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## Hippie (May 24, 2005)

Sorry Berry, sometimes I miss a post now and then, especially if I have been away from home. I like Martina's answer and probably couldn't have explained it that well. I also use both together, kinda like insurance. Too much will give bad flavors, I have read.


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## Berrywine (May 24, 2005)

no need for sorrys CW, i've been a bit busy myself here lately; i understandthat.... just follow directions on the package, eh?






berry


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