# A bit of a dilemma...



## Siwash (Jul 24, 2015)

*Growing wine grapes on a pergola or similar?*

Hey folks,

We moved into a home with a decent size lot (100 Wide by 220 Depth). I intended to plant about a dozen (+/-) vines suitable for my zone (5a/4b). I was thinking along the lines of Marquette, Petite Pearl, Lucie Khulman or some other variety of cold-hardy grape. Here's the problem; despite the fact that I have at least 120 feet uninterrupted to plant, it turns out that a good portion of that location is is sitting very close to my septic field so I don't think I can plant there. I could plant along the fringe of it, but I am concerned about getting close. But, planting along the fringe of this spot (essentially my property line) isn't ideal b/c part of it is partially shaded by large trees on the neighbouring property - trees with big root systems (box alders). I have no idea how deep vines go, but I don't want to chance it because the septic field is close to the surface. Plus, the trellis posts could also interfere with the septic system. 

My question is, is there an alternative to the traditional "trellis system" of growing vines (i.e. a straight line with vines 6' apart)? I know people have success growing table grapes on pergolas. Can wine-making grapes be grown on a pergola? Perhaps some other system? 

Thanks in advance! 

Cheers..


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## salcoco (Jul 25, 2015)

grape roots can grow eight to ten feet deep and over eight ft in diameter of the plant. with the septic tank field as a good source of moisture the roots would migrate to this source.
wine grapes will grow to any type of trellis with proper pruning. some will have a tendency to grow with trialing vines so these are the ones I would select for your case


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## Siwash (Jul 25, 2015)

salcoco said:


> grape roots can grow eight to ten feet deep and over eight ft in diameter of the plant. with the septic tank field as a good source of moisture the roots would migrate to this source.
> wine grapes will grow to any type of trellis with proper pruning. some will have a tendency to grow with trialing vines so these are the ones I would select for your case



Would the Marquette grape be considered a vine that tends to "trail"? What other cold-hardy grapes would you suggest with this characteristic? 

The other question is, do I build a conventional pergola (I'm thinking of the pergolas that are designed for table grapes like Concord) or would I have to have something constructed with wine production in mind? I have no idea how large a pergola should be that would accommodate about 10 or so vines. 

thanks for the tip!


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## Siwash (Jul 26, 2015)

I have found in my research that both Leon Millot and Marechel Foch are procumbent in their growth habits, which I believe means that they will trail. I can get MF and the sister variety, Lucie Khlumann. Can anyone confirm that LK is also procumbent grower? Are either MF or LK quality grapes for wine making? 

I would also welcome more suggestions on planting the vines along a pergola as an alternative to a rowed trellis system

Thanks!


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## salcoco (Jul 26, 2015)

I believe Leon Merlot and Foch would do well in your area. any grape can be made to trail some have this characteristic. since you are on a pergola it would seem that this might not be critical.
I would space the grapes at least 6 feet apart around the pergola. the vines will need to be pruned once the reach the flat part of the pergola and the grapes should hang down below the top surface. some pruning will also be required as they attain full height although some cordon growth can be accommodated along the sides. what size and height pergola do you propose?


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## Siwash (Jul 26, 2015)

salcoco said:


> I believe Leon Merlot and Foch would do well in your area. any grape can be made to trail some have this characteristic. since you are on a pergola it would seem that this might not be critical.
> I would space the grapes at least 6 feet apart around the pergola. the vines will need to be pruned once the reach the flat part of the pergola and the grapes should hang down below the top surface. some pruning will also be required as they attain full height although some cordon growth can be accommodated along the sides. what size and height pergola do you propose?



Seems like I will need to build a large pergola ! As i think about it, at 6' apart, it would need to be at least 20' long and 12' wide... that is a big structure. I could plant 3 vines on each of the long sides and perhaps squeeze 2 on each of the 12' sides. That would give me 10 vines. Is it possible to get 10 vines planted on a smaller structure? 10 is the number I have in mind because from what I have been told each vine could yield about a gallon of finished wine. Is this about right? 

Why would I need a top for the pergola if the vines need to be pruned once they've reached the top?

Do you think the Marquette would work? I can get those and I hear very good things about them...

Thanks for your help!


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## Siwash (Jul 26, 2015)

what kind of wood should i use?


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## salcoco (Jul 27, 2015)

The Marquette should work. plant 3 ft apart if necessary. I suggested a top to let the grapes grow across the top and provide a partial shade underneath. You will need to prune every year to shape the vine to the area and reduce the spur growth. this also will stimulate cluster growth.
15 lbs of grape are required for a gallon of wine. your vines would need to produce this quantity.
I would use pressure treated lumber. I believe the new process is chemically inert and not harmful to the environment.


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## Siwash (Jul 27, 2015)

Great tips... so should I plant the vines on the west and east sides only (the length pergola would be positioned in a north-south direction)? How tall should I make it? 

Thanks


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## salcoco (Jul 28, 2015)

do you plan on sitting under the pergola say around a patio?. if so 8 ft might be the best. 6ft would be the least.


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## Siwash (Jul 28, 2015)

salcoco said:


> do you plan on sitting under the pergola say around a patio?. if so 8 ft might be the best. 6ft would be the least.



Sitting would be a nice option... probably go for 8'

Thanks for all your help. I will post pics and/or questions as i go along


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## Siwash (Jul 29, 2015)

What do you think of something like this?


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## salcoco (Aug 1, 2015)

that would work hard to sit under. spraying in the middle might be a problem once growth reaches maximum.


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## Siwash (Aug 1, 2015)

salcoco said:


> that would work hard to sit under. spraying in the middle might be a problem once growth reaches maximum.



I'd probably make it wider... this is more for reference... 

Thnaks


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## salcoco (Aug 2, 2015)

I think it would be a great addition to your yard.


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