# Replacing my orchard



## bj4271 (Jul 19, 2007)

As I mentioned in an earlier post, a new gas well is going to wipe out my orchard. I'm looking for sources to replace it.


I'm looking for sources that sell trees that are more than a year or two old - trying to not lose as much time as if I had to start out all new again. I hate to lose a couple to 4 years growth.


I'm repacing apple, pear, plum, peach, fig, paw-paw, nectarine, mulberry, persimmon trees &amp; muscadine vines.


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 19, 2007)

What a heart breaker to loose your trees and vines as well as all the time you invested in them.


Most mail order outlets sell younger trees for easier shipping, you might have to buy locally and get some potted trees that have some size to them.


Could you have a tree mover come in with a tree spade and just move your trees???


Is the gas company paying for this???


Good luck and Post some photos...would love to see the present trees as well as the future orchard.


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## grapeman (Jul 19, 2007)

That was my though to about the tree mover. If that is not possible, when are they going to tear them out? If not until next year, you could perpare them ahead of time and try to move yourself or hire a landscaper. If you can wait until fall when they go dormant, I would prune them back to fairly thick wood and leave about 6 feet tall. Then using a spade cut the roots to form about a 3 foot ball-which will be very heavy. Bundle it with burlap and keep moist until spring. Then you should replant first thing in the spring before buds break. Risky at best, but goo luck with the move.


PS- the tree movers could move them without you hardly ever even noticing. Find a reputable landscaper and consult with them.


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## bj4271 (Jul 19, 2007)

Thanks for the replies. They will be digging up the area in about six weeks. 


I've called all the nurseries, tree trimmers/maintenance types in the area &amp; noone is interested in moving them. I also thought one of those large pieces of equip that snatches a 3' root ball &amp; tree &amp; all at once (see them on This Old House) would be the ticket. Can't find any.


I located one guy who mows lawns (landscaper also)who will take on digging them up &amp; I've bought big lawn pots to put them in until late fall, but I expect 90% loss rate - it's already in the mid 90s here. 


I got the gas company to pay 'damages', so I'm looking for nurseries that have older trees so I won't have to suffer so much of a time loss. 


TyTy in Ga. is agood nursery, I've had good luck with them when I started &amp; they have som 2 &amp; 3 year old trees &amp; a few 2 yr old muscadine vines, but not enough. I need 'good' sources. By good I mean nurseries that will ship when they are supposed to, have good stock, and good service.Too much to ask for?*Edited by: bj4271 *


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## bj4271 (Jul 19, 2007)

BTW Appleman, how far upstate are you?


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## grapeman (Jul 19, 2007)

Good luck Bruce. Hope it all works out. I am 20 miles south of the Canadian border- about 60 miles south of Montreal. It's a little Northwest of Burlington Vermont on the edge of the Champlain Valley- less than an hour from Lake Placid and about 5 miles from the Adirondack State Park. 


[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;saddr=44.675001,-73.587799&amp;daddr=&amp;mrcr=0&amp;mrsp=0&amp;sz=12&amp;mra=dme&amp;sll=44.633238,-73.466949&amp;sspn=0.211088,0.52803&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=44.60318,-73.33374&amp;spn=0.844789,2.112122&amp;z=10&amp;om=1"]http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;saddr=44.675001,-73.587799&amp;daddr=&amp;mrcr=0&amp;mrsp=0&amp;sz=12&amp;mra=dme&amp;sll=44.633238,-73.466949&amp;sspn=0.211088,0.52803&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=44.60318,-73.33374&amp;spn=0.844789,2.112122&amp;z=10&amp;om=1[/ame]*Edited by: appleman *


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## Lmcirig (Jul 19, 2007)

Have you tried calling the *manufacturers* of these plants? I'm not really familiar with these type of trees/ vines, but when I'm looking for plants I look at the main source. And then I go through a distributor/ dealer.
So maybe you can call the supplier &amp; see if they will sell you direct or refer you to a distributor that can help?


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## bj4271 (Jul 19, 2007)

appleman said:


> Good luck Bruce. Hope it all works out. I am 20 miles south of the Canadian border- about 60 miles south of Montreal. It's a little Northwest of Burlington Vermont on the edge of the Champlain Valley- less than an hour from Lake Placid and about 5 miles from the Adirondack State Park.
> 
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;saddr=44.675001,-73.587799&amp;daddr=&amp;mrcr=0&amp;mrsp=0&amp;sz=12&amp;mra=dme&amp;sll=44.633238,-73.466949&amp;sspn=0.211088,0.52803&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;ll=44.60318,-73.33374&amp;spn=0.844789,2.112122&amp;z=10&amp;om=1




My father's from Plattsburgh - many moons ago.


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## grapeman (Jul 19, 2007)

bj4271
My father's from Plattsburgh - many moons ago.[/QUOTE said:


> Plattsburgh is about 5 miles away from me. Was he with PAFB or just from the town?


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## Waldo (Jul 19, 2007)

What a bummer bj......So whats the chance that the area you are moving too now will be drilled sometime in the future?


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## Angell Wine (Jul 19, 2007)

http://www.bobwellsnursery.com/


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 19, 2007)

Have you tried those rental places that rent Skid-Steer loaders, BobCats and such...they might have a tree spade for rent....Just a thought.


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## swillologist (Jul 20, 2007)

To bad you don't live a little closer hereBJ.They build those tree spades just down the road here about 20 miles. The spadesare all over the place around here. *Edited by: swillologist *


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## grapeman (Jul 20, 2007)

Northern Winos said:


> Have you tried those rental places that rent Skid-Steer loaders, BobCats and such...they might have a tree spade for rent....Just a thought.




Good thought NW. They do have tree spade attachments here at the local Rental store for Bobcats. "Let your fingers do the Walking" and check the phone book. With any luck, they might have one.


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## bj4271 (Jul 20, 2007)

Waldo said:


> What a bummer bj......So whats the chance that the area you are moving too now will be drilled sometime in the future?




Waldo, you scared the hell out of me with that thought! This is the third time they're drilling on my property in 4 years. Actually, though, they are limited by proximity to other wells, houses, etc.


This time they really wanted to fill in one end of my pond &amp; drill there. I held them off for a year &amp; then got them to directional bore from a well-pad where they had drilled the other wellsabout 1000' further back on the property.


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## bj4271 (Jul 20, 2007)

I found a nursery that can dig them up, but he said the same thing I was afraid of - expect 90% loss this time of year.


He is checking with his suppliers about getting more mature plants, &amp; is the only one willing to do that. It's amazing how complacent folks are nowadays.


Angell, you're an angel. That place is only a coupl\e of hours away &amp; seems to have mature plants.


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## OilnH2O (Jul 20, 2007)

It seems to me the "damages" is pretty well undefined, but would depend on how tight their sub-surface rights are -- just thinking out loud here -- but if there was a man-made improvement on the property, would the "damages" include moving/replacing that surface improvement? I'm thinking here that your orchard is not like merely digging up some grass out in the pasture, or even a row crop, but "infrastructure" invested for long-term gain. Of course, I know their lawyers may have thought all this through long ago, but it might be worth checking into just what "damages" could mean. 


I'll shut up now, and go have a glass of wine! But best of luck!


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## bj4271 (Jul 20, 2007)

OilnH2O, the "damages" they paid were for the replacement value of the trees and I charged them for buying matureplants instead of for 1 yr old stick trees. That's why I can afford to get the bigger plants.


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## OilnH2O (Jul 21, 2007)

Good for you! Hope it all works out!


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## Waldo (Jul 21, 2007)

Me too bj....keep us posted on the progress


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## bj4271 (Aug 13, 2007)

It's gone!!! Went out to the orchard after work Thursday &amp; the orchard was a lagre dirt pile &amp; a pit 30 feet deep. The guy I contracted to move the trees never showed, so it's start from scratch.


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## grapeman (Aug 13, 2007)

I feel your pain Bruce and wish you sucess in getting it replanted ASAP.


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## bj4271 (Aug 13, 2007)

Thanks Richard,


Yesterday, I dug up the only trees that weren't buried - a Chenango strawberry apple, a cinnamon spice apple &amp; 2 Russian Mulberry. The temp was [email protected] 99+. It used to be that low temps like that didn't bother me, but old age has set in!


How's the weather around the lake? It's got to be better than here. Up until a week ago it had rained so much you couldn't get around the property without rutting it up. We set quite a few records. The rain ruined the wild muscadine crop, IMHO. They dropped too soon.


Now, a week later, it was like digging in concrete - good old Louisiana clay. All dried out &amp; cracked.


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## grapeman (Aug 13, 2007)

The weather has been pretty eratic, but in general very pleasant. June saw a few 100 deg days, but only in the 80's and low 90's in July. So far August has been mid 80's average. Yesterday was a bit warm at 95 and high humidity, but predicting low 70's later this week. July had almost 10 inches of rain, but only about 1/2 inch so far in August!


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## NorthernWinos (Aug 13, 2007)

bj...that is just crushing.....So sad to have all that time, money and love destroyed. At least you were at work and not out there hugging your trees and have your heart broke before your eyes.


Hope you get re-planted soon??? Will you plant anything different...or the same??????


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## grapeman (Apr 16, 2008)

Did you get your orchard and vines moved or replanted yet? How is the weather there?


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## bj4271 (Apr 16, 2008)

Hi Richard,


Bit by bit I've been planting - last fall &amp; this spring. I've got about a dozen various grapes (mostly table) &amp; maybe 20 muscadine, and about 10 blueberry &amp; a dozen or so raspberry. Close to 20 fruit trees. Amazingly, everything is budding out &amp; some are fruiting already.


The problem is finding a place to put anything. I was planning to use a large open area near my pond, but the wife gave an old trailer sitting there, to a nephew &amp; he hasn't moved it out yet (it will have to go out right thru the middle of the open area). I've lost last fall &amp; this spring planting seasons there. 


I've been squeezing stuff in whereever I can find space - inbetween oak trees, in 25 gal planters(the mini-dwf apples), between other plants on the pond's edge, etc. I've had to stick with dwarf or smaller until I can free up a larger space like I had originally.


They finally got around to restoring the ground by the original orchard. By restoring, they filled in the mud pit last year but never did the finish work. They just last week bulldozed it, but it's still rough. They haven't reconnected my water/elec lines they cut so there would be no irrigation there. Even when they fix it, I don't knowif I want to try starting there again. Who knows, they might want to drill a fourth time!


AS for the weather, last week I planted tomatoes, peppers, and eggplant. Night before last, I was covering them with blankets because we were getting a frost. Other than the one frost, it's usually in the 60s or 70s; spring rains have eased, just gorgeous - like spring in NY. In a couple of weeks it will start to get in the 80s, &amp; bymid-May in the 90s.


I see you can finally see dirt up there - it's abeautiful time of year in that area.


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## grapeman (Apr 16, 2008)

I am so glad you are at least getting some of your plants and trees back in the ground. I can't imagine planting an orchard or garden and having someone decide they want to rip it out to get some oil or who know what out of the ground. Our weather is getting better by the day- you can't complain about this week at all other than it has been getting a bit below freezing at night. Today it had robin's egg blue skies and 65 degrees this afternoon. It is still 55 degrees outside and feels wonderful. I saw 8 deer this afternoon/early evening. It's fun watching them this time of year- they are so hungry. I pruned some more grapes and actually got bitten by several mosquitos!


Keep a positive thought and get everything planted you can.


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## bj4271 (Apr 17, 2008)

The last 3 mini-dwf apples arrived hesterday. I'm planting them in the 25 gal pots I had bought to transplant the orchard &amp; putting them in my front yard for now.


I had planned on everything being fully producing by the time I retired in 2010. I'd be able to sit out in a lawn chair with a good cigar, a great glass of wine &amp; watch my fruit grow. Oh well!


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## bj4271 (Aug 12, 2008)

An update.


What's that line from a song: "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all!"


When they dug the large mud pit that destroyed my orchard, they had cut though the 1.25" water line &amp; elec lines to the well I use for irrigating the property. They were supposed to replace the line when they were done. Because they took so long I crossed the irrigation pipes with the municipal system we're hooked up to for emergencies (very expensive) so I could irrigate.


They finally came out, 6 months late, and replaced the elec lines with some that were a 12 ga 3-wire line (mine were 8 ga 4-wire) and it didn't reach the end of the line they had cut anyway.


AS if that weren't bad enough, they never notified me were working on the lines (so I didn't know to cut off the muni. water), they connected the PVC from where they originally cut it all the way to the well shed (about 450'). In the well shed, for some reason I can't fathom, they disconnected the air tank &amp; plumbing from it to the well. That left water running full force for days until I noticed it by accident. Who connects water line with the water running full force through it???


With no irrigation because of the water running full force into the dirt 1500' away from my plantings, I've lost all the raspberry/Blk rasp, several fruit trees, 3 grape vines, 8 muscadine vines, 150 strawberry plants, 3 huckleberry, 2 Hnasen's cherry, and 9 blueberry. No to mention the decorative plants.


Are we having fun yet? Actually, where I was depressed last year, now it's just getting funnier &amp; funnier. I know that makes me weird.


The gas exploration people actually felt bad &amp; asked me to get the lines replaced correctly &amp; bill them. 2 days later I had a functional well &amp; will have a backup well going this weekend. All the free water I could want for irrigation (just have to worry about the cost of elec for the pumps &amp; they're 220V).


Other good news, while it's been so dry &amp; hot, the wild muscadine crop looks pretty bad, I actually have muscadine on a few of the vines I planted in Nov. Not enough to make anything, but a promising sight nonetheless.


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## NorthernWinos (Aug 12, 2008)

That's a real crock of bad luck...





I would try to get all those plants replaced as well....Then there is the year's growing season that's lost too..

Hope you find lots of wild fruits to make up for some of your losses.....


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## grapeman (Aug 13, 2008)

I think those folks have it in for you ther bj. Maybe there is the Motherlode there under you and they are trying to get you to just plain leave.


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## bj4271 (Aug 13, 2008)

NW &amp; Rich it just gets funnier &amp; funnier or is it worser &amp; worser. Walking around the pond I found 5 out of 6 cherry trees died (must have been while there was no irrigation) that weren't in myprev. count. 


Actually, I got them to pay a small fortune for destroying my orchard. I figured to get 6-7 year old trees from one internet source, charged for them at $170+ ea&amp; then someone on the forum told me about Bob Wells Nursery where I can get most of the same trees for less than $35. 


At least this year wasn't a total loss, I'm seeing which plants can survive the summers here.


I've been toying with the idea of replanting where the old orchard was; not that I;ve got irrigation. BUT!!!


Recently word leaked out of a new natural gas field found in this area - the largest ever in the US - about 5000' below the two fields they are already tapping. I figure they'll probably be drilling again - they prev. drilled three different times &amp; got6 producing wells 700' behind the house. If I had the mineral rights on all my property(instead of just 5 acres), I'd retire.


Note to everybody - BUY NATURAL GAS COMPANY STOCKs - especially Chesapeake Energy(CPK).*Edited by: bj4271 *


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