# Bird netting recommendation



## dwhill40 (Aug 15, 2019)

Hello,
I'm looking at replacing my bird netting. I have been using the "premium" green string style of netting and its beginning to have holes. Can anyone share their experience with the extruded polypropylene nets versus the string nets? 

The birds eat through the 3/4 inch holes. I'm wondering if the 1/2 hole size might help keep the birds from pecking through the nets.

Mocking birds are aggressive little a-hole creatures.


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## BigH (Aug 15, 2019)

I purchased this netting a few years ago. It has a smaller mesh size. I really like it, but I wish it came in wider rolls to accommodate my GDC trellis. In hindsight, I would compromise on the mesh size, and just get something 19-20 feet wide to throw over my GDC trellis.

https://www.birdnettingdepot.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TENORSM


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## jgmillr1 (Aug 17, 2019)

I bought a few nets from spectrellising (http://www.spectrellising.com/) last year. They are 5/8 inch woven nets that have held up well going into the second season of use. We have starling issues and they do a good job preventing the birds from getting in. With the holes being 5/8" rather than 3/4" I find that the birds don't get their heads stuck and I don't have to remove bird bodies from the nets when I put them away.


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## dwhill40 (Aug 18, 2019)

I am using the 17' avigard netting with a lyre trellis which is okay but it appears the birds somehow push the netting into the clusters and eat them clean. The mockingbirds will find a seam on the bottom, which I have tied and wiggle their way into the nets. I am in the deep south with ample sun so I was curious if there is a mesh solution. I have to spray fungicide so I need open access for that. One day an enormous redtail hawk was circling and screeching. It was so quiet you wouldn't have though a bird existed in the area. I have to come up with something better than the 3/4 inch netting. A pet hawk would be sweet but I have enough hobbies .


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## jgmillr1 (Aug 20, 2019)

The last couple seasons I've draped 50ft wide nets over the vines. The nets sit about 9ft up, supported by a wire running through simple PVC posts that attached to the vineyard posts. It is tall enough that I can run the tractor under the netting as required. I'm still working out the bugs with this configuration but it has the advantages of (1) keeping the net off the vines which tend to grow through the net and cause problems during removal, (2) reducing the netting purchases by half since you only have to span over the vine row rather than up/down each vine row, (3) having continuous netting which reduces opportunities for birds to get in, and (4) making it faster to throw the nets up and take down.

The issues I'm still addressing with this method are that the net needs to be periodically attached to the support wire or it tends to drift due to the wind and you need to sew the adjoining nets temporarily together to prevent birds from getting in from the top.

This clearly won't work if you rely on mechanical harvesting but may work depending on your circumstance.


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## ibglowin (Aug 20, 2019)

Wow! Do you have a lot of bird pressure?


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## jgmillr1 (Aug 20, 2019)

Yep. This year they ate all of my seyval (about 1.5 tons) before they even began to ripen. I'll be netting that next year too.

I either have to extensively net or give up growing grapes.


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## ibglowin (Aug 20, 2019)

Who are the troublemakers for you?




jgmillr1 said:


> Yep. This year they ate all of my seyval (about 1.5 tons) before they even began to ripen. I'll be netting that next year too.
> 
> I either have to extensively net or give up growing grapes.


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## jgmillr1 (Aug 20, 2019)

Starlings are my big pest. They come in swarms of hundreds and can strip an acre in a day


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## ibglowin (Aug 20, 2019)

I will not be complaining about my half dozen or so Spotted Towhee then!


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 21, 2019)

I use a 2 pronged scenario to keep the birds off. I buy 7 foot wide netting and cut it in half (3.5 feet on each side). Then I have a couple of owls that I move around the vineyard. I use the bobbing head owls and the birds seem to be scared of them. As a side note, crows REALLY don't like the owls. It works for me and I have a lot of different birds that like the berries. Here's a pic.


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## ibglowin (Aug 21, 2019)

You convinced me Dennis. Adding one to the arsenal!


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 21, 2019)

I mounted mine to a base that is held by a single screw to a post. I just take my cordless drill out when I move them. It only takes a couple of minutes to move from one spot to another. I can take a pic, if you're interested.


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## ibglowin (Aug 21, 2019)

I used 2x2 redwood post in the ground for my vines until they reached the TW when I planted them. The hole in the base of the owl is perfect to just slide the bird onto and into place. Literally about one minute to move them into a new configuration. Looking forward to the bobbing head to help bring some added realism to the flock!


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## mainshipfred (Aug 21, 2019)

I think I'll keep buying my grapes from someone else. This growing yourself thing seems like way too much trouble.


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## ibglowin (Aug 21, 2019)

Everyone should at least pick your own grapes at least once if you have the opportunity. I guarantee you will gain a new respect not only for the farmer who has to deal with everything from late frost to hail to critters of every possible type as well as the migrant worker who is out in the field day after day (usually in the daylight hours) hustling like crazy as you get paid by the bucket.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 21, 2019)

I'm actually going to help @berrycrush pick and crush grapes on Sunday. I don't think it's a lot but something I've never done before.


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## Johnd (Aug 21, 2019)

I’d grow my own in a heartbeat if I could grow vinifera here.


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## hitchiker (Aug 21, 2019)

down here in south Ga. we use bird cannons to keep the starlings out of our blueberries


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## dwhill40 (Aug 25, 2019)

I'm dealing with around 1/2 acre so the enclosure idea is growing on me. I harvested this weekend and ended up with 10% of the crop. Rough year.



jgmillr1 said:


> The last couple seasons I've draped 50ft wide nets over the vines. The nets sit about 9ft up, supported by a wire running through simple PVC posts that attached to the vineyard posts. It is tall enough that I can run the tractor under the netting as required. I'm still working out the bugs with this configuration but it has the advantages of (1) keeping the net off the vines which tend to grow through the net and cause problems during removal, (2) reducing the netting purchases by half since you only have to span over the vine row rather than up/down each vine row, (3) having continuous netting which reduces opportunities for birds to get in, and (4) making it faster to throw the nets up and take down.
> 
> The issues I'm still addressing with this method are that the net needs to be periodically attached to the support wire or it tends to drift due to the wind and you need to sew the adjoining nets temporarily together to prevent birds from getting in from the top.
> 
> This clearly won't work if you rely on mechanical harvesting but may work depending on your circumstance.View attachment 56046


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 25, 2019)

Harvest done here and the buckets are bubbling.


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## jgmillr1 (Aug 26, 2019)

dwhill40 said:


> I'm dealing with around 1/2 acre so the enclosure idea is growing on me. I harvested this weekend and ended up with 10% of the crop. Rough year.



That's tough. The netting enclosure also seems to deter the birds in that they as easily see the fruit compared to the drape over netting where it is more visible when they fly along the row.

The cost per row is about $50 in materials. I used 10ft 3/4" galv pipe for the ends and 5ft 3/4" pvc supports along the row. The top wire runs through a tee at the top of the pvc and ties at the ends around a metal tee on top of the metal post.

The biggest problems I've been having with the enclosure nets are that they will slide around on top of the wire from the wind unless you cinch them down with something like zip ties. And joining the nets is tricky. I sewed to them together this year using fishing line. I'll see how that does.


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## acorad (Aug 29, 2019)

I used bee netting this year, it has very small holes. So small that I don't think the birds can see through it, so they don't know the grapes are there. Zero grapes lost to birds this year. However, the field rats have been like the plague. 

Andy


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## bumblebeetuna (Sep 28, 2019)

@jgmillr1 

How did your structure holdup and how did sewing them together work out for you?


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## jgmillr1 (Sep 28, 2019)

bumblebeetuna said:


> @jgmillr1
> 
> How did your structure holdup and how did sewing them together work out for you?


The sewing held up ok. I thought I might be able to reuse the fishing line but the shifting net caused too much weight to be able to pull it back out in one piece.

The big lesson I learned this season is that the net must be secured to the top wire and have ties straddling the post in order to resist the wind wanting to lift the net off and slide it around the tops of the wires. (In other words, I had a windstorm cause a section to completely detach and blow into the neighboring block!)


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## OilnH2O (Sep 29, 2019)

I have vineyard bird netting (from Wilson Orchard Supply in Washington state) - it's either 3/4 or maybe even 1" - I've never actually measured. The netting is green with white lines along the length - and a double white line to easily see the "half way" mid-point to give seven feet to a side. But, at 14' wide it can be fastened two ways. One, let it drape to the ground, weigh it down (rocks, 2/4's, etc) to hold it down; or two, envelop the vines by bringing together underneath and tying with "bread clips." The clips are like bread bag holders, but larger: actually about 2" by 1 inch and easy to put on and take off. I've done it both ways but i think envelopment with clips works best for me. And, it withstands high winds although wind can cause the netting to move from the ground if not weighted down adequately.

We have resident birds - robins and flickers are the main problems - that leave the berries alone until veraisen then they go after the colored berries. They admire my owls but only rarely land beside them. (The bobbing head ones are best, but after 3-4 years don't "bob" as much!) An eagle or osprey "kite" on a long pole works best as it "flies" in the wind. But, it causes the smaller birds to hunker down and hide... and they like to hide in the vineyard because the have food nearby.... (Nothing is perfect!)

Robins, finches and flocks of other song birds migrating south, will try to land on the netting near a berry cluster and hang on and peck through the nets. I'm not sure if smaller diameter netting would do much more than give them a better purchase to cling to with their feet. A bird's beak can get through from the outside regardless of the size of the net. I have a lower wire on my rows from which I hang my drip irrigation line and if I don't enclose it inside the netting, I'll have birds land on it and try to reach up to get into the netting (where it is gathered) by pecking at it and pulling to get access. 

Every few days one will get caught in netting. When that happens they go ballistic. They don't tear the netting getting out but sometimes get twisted and caught. Then - depending on the age of your children, the neighbors children, or your spouse - you find yourself learning how to capture and release these protected avi-fauna. I can tell you as well, that BB and pellet guns as a solution can work, but are not often - in fact are rarely - approved by any of your advisory team or authority figures....

I've found that ground birds - here, particularly flickers - will keep pushing/pulling at the netting on the ground with their bills until they get the netting to create a small opening which they make larger until they squeeze in. Once in, they are like in flicker heaven because they eat until they are gorged but also can't get out. 

Any bird that gets inside compounds the problem. You almost have to open one end and try to allow them to find there own way out without calling their buddies to come in! If you try to haze them toward an opening, they will only panic. If they can't get out, as they panic they fly into the netting until they get caught - on the inside. Then it is even more difficult to get to them to catch and release. 

Bird netting done right is a blessing. I think this year is the fifth year (I'd have to scroll through my Missoula Vineyard thread to see when I first stated) I've had netting, and this year has been the most successful. I put it on a little earlier, ensured there were NO openings around any vertical vine or post, clipped together at the bottom every 8-12 inches, double-clipped at potential trouble spots, and I have had no birds inside and none caught outside. Of course, mine is just a backyard vineyard and not acres of grapes - but I think the principles are the same!


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## Maheesh (Oct 3, 2019)

For accordance, bee netting is what I need to do...can you share where you got yours, and the performance versus yellow jackets, the bane of my existence?


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## Maheesh (Oct 3, 2019)

Accord, that is.


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## acorad (Oct 30, 2019)

Maheesh said:


> Accord, that is.



Hi Maheesh,

My winegrowing partner ordered the bee netting, so I really don't know where he got it from. There must be a number of places online that carry bee netting?

The netting worked 100% to keep the bees out. I simply draped it over the rows and let the skirts lay on the ground.

And it worked just as well for the birds. The netting is a little opaque and I really don't think they could even see through the netting to the grapes so they had no idea they were there.

However, I think the field rats that descended on my vineyard at night like the plague were very happy under the bee netting because they knew owls and other predators could not see them, so they ravaged my grapes every night without a care in the world.


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## gsf77 (Nov 7, 2019)

I have some old time red and bronze scuppernongs that I layered and grew. For the last 3 years the deer have been eating these, I thought it was coons to start with until I put up a security system and caught them walking through my yard. Something's always eating something. Any ideas?


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## Johnd (Nov 7, 2019)

gsf77 said:


> I have some old time red and bronze scuppernongs that I layered and grew. For the last 3 years the deer have been eating these, I thought it was coons to start with until I put up a security system and caught them walking through my yard. Something's always eating something. Any ideas?




A short fence with a dog inside, or 6 foot fencing is an option. 

There are also deer fences made of a white conductive tape, solar powered with batteries in the loop, effectively making an electric fence. Hunters use them to keep deer out of newly planted fields until the crop gets growing.


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## Intheswamp (Nov 7, 2019)

The usual...
Gun, some McCormick seasoned tenderizer, some salt, a little pepper, flour, peanut oil, mashed potatoes, a salad. Well, you get the idea. 

As for fencing, a TALL mesh fence or a good double electric fence. 

They're hard to deal with. I'm going to be planting the vines soon. I've already got a four strand electric fence around the garden but will be adding another single strand about three feet outside of this one and about 30" high. It messes with there depth perception. I may just increase the fence height with some poles leaning outward from the tops of the existing posts with some nylon cord strung around it. Again...the depth perception thing.


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## wfournier (Jun 9, 2021)

jgmillr1 said:


> The sewing held up ok. I thought I might be able to reuse the fishing line but the shifting net caused too much weight to be able to pull it back out in one piece.
> 
> The big lesson I learned this season is that the net must be secured to the top wire and have ties straddling the post in order to resist the wind wanting to lift the net off and slide it around the tops of the wires. (In other words, I had a windstorm cause a section to completely detach and blow into the neighboring block!)



I know this is an old thread but I am curious if you have any further updates on this? I've been considering doing something similar in my backyard style vineyard (64 vines in a roughly 20X110 ft area). Any changes to your support system? How has it held up? The smaller size makes overhead netting a bit easier to get going. 

I've also considered bee netting as yellowjackets can be an issue as well as SWD but I think the SWD may be taking advantage of the damaged berries from birds and wasps. My concern with the bee netting is that the smaller openings will start to reduce the light hitting the vines and reduce airflow impacting ripening and maybe creating an environment move favorable for mildew and rot.


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## jgmillr1 (Jun 9, 2021)

wfournier said:


> I know this is an old thread but I am curious if you have any further updates on this? I've been considering doing something similar in my backyard style vineyard (64 vines in a roughly 20X110 ft area). Any changes to your support system? How has it held up? The smaller size makes overhead netting a bit easier to get going.


I'm still improving the "super-trellis" model to suspend the nets above the vines. However the changes I've made are to (1) space wooden supports every other post rather than relying on a PVC support that can't take sheer forces from wind, (2) use the lighter weight nylon netting rather than the heavier woven style since it can take some tension to prevent sagging, and (3) leave the netting tied to the super-trellis year round while tying together adjacent rows during bird season. I don't have room to store 5 acres worth of netting in the off-season, so leaving it in place solves that problem. However the adjacent row nets must be untied from each other so that snow won't tear them off.


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## wfournier (Jun 9, 2021)

Thanks for the update, looking back at the pictures you posted before it looks like you have support wires running the length of the row but not across. Is that correct? You had mentioned that the smaller mesh in the original netting resulted in fewer birds getting caught, is that still the case with the netting you are using now? I have wondered if getting the net further from the grapes alone would be enough to help with that as the birds might be less tempted by fruit that is further away.


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## jgmillr1 (Jun 10, 2021)

wfournier said:


> Thanks for the update, looking back at the pictures you posted before it looks like you have support wires running the length of the row but not across. Is that correct? You had mentioned that the smaller mesh in the original netting resulted in fewer birds getting caught, is that still the case with the netting you are using now? I have wondered if getting the net further from the grapes alone would be enough to help with that as the birds might be less tempted by fruit that is further away.


I did run wire across the rows at the ends so that the net would be supported there and allow me to tie it to the wire so I could get equipment under the net while it was up.

I've had no further troubles with birds getting their heads stuck in the 3/4 netting with it standing off the vines. It seems that they are less willing to try and fight through the net when the grapes are so much further away.

One other change I made was to bolt 2x4's at the ends of the rows rather than the 3/4" metal pipes. The pipes are not as strong as they seem and tend to permanently bend over if there is sudden tension on the wire from high wind or striking the wire with the tractor. Wood is more flexible and should help keep tension along the wire.


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## Neb Farmer (Jun 10, 2021)

Here is an interesting method to repell birds from your vineyard! 









Effective bird repellent solutions


Bird Control Group is the world leader for laser bird deterrents. Our patented laser technology reduces bird presence by more than 70%.




www.birdcontrolgroup.com





I saw this a few years ago while I was surfing the net looking for solutions to keep birds out of my grapes. I did not buy this , but if I had a few acres or more of grapevines, I would seriously consider it. 
As it is, I use poly netting with about 1/2 inch holes to 'wrap' over the top of each row, fastening the bottom together with clothespins. Works well and the netting seems to hold up to several seasons of deployment and later removal. I can't find a current ad for the type I use, but i found them at the local agri store for about $30 apiece ( approx 10 feet wide, 30 feet long )

Good luck with whatever you use. there is nothing quite like nurturing a crop of winegrapes throughout the year, only to have birds make off with 75% of the crop!


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## jgmillr1 (Jun 12, 2021)

Another option is to use a bird repellent spray. I bought this a season or so ago but didn't end up needing it. I plan to use it on my grapes that I'm not able to net this year. I can't vouch yet for its efficacy. Maybe along with plastic owls it will deter the starling flocks.









Avian Control Bird Repellent


Avian Control Bird Repellent effectively gets rid of birds, easy to use, effective, affordable and humane. Repel birds with Avian Control Bird Repellent today




www.birdbgone.com


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## dwhill40 (Jun 22, 2021)

50x100 nets from Valley orchard supply. Covers three 10 ft spaced rows with enough to pile on the ground. The birds don't even try.


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