# Wild Blackberry Wine



## Raptor99 (Jul 28, 2021)

I have access to wild blackberries, so I wanted to reach out to those who have tried this. The variety that is most common here in Oregon is himalayan blackberries. This is an invasive species that is difficult to control, so it is widely available. One distinguishing feature of himalayan blackberries is that the have a stem with five flat sides, so that the cross section of the stem is a hexagon.

Have you made wine from himalayan blackberries? How was the flavor? My thought is to use 5 lbs. per gallon, and to adjust the pH if necessary.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 29, 2021)

I've not educated myself on the varieties of wild blackberries so I can't help you there but if they are ANYTHING like the wild blackberries in NW Arkansas - you will be very happy with the outcome. Typically somewhere between 5-6 lbs per gallon provided an awesome robust flavored wine so 5 should be great.


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## Rice_Guy (Jul 29, 2021)

In this zone I don’t have wild varieties.
My preference is lots of fruit so I run high on pounds per gallon. 
My one caution is that at eighteen months I get astringent flavors (likely oxidation issue). When I pull this years batch out of the freezer I am going to run high on tannin and see if it is a cure. ,,, ? type and level TBD yet ?


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## OrchardRoad (Jul 30, 2021)

I'll be making a blend with the "wild" Himalayan blackberries from my neighborhood here in the Santa Cruz Mtns in CA. They are watery-er than the native smaller blackberries and wild raspberry but far more abundant though I do think they lack good blackberry flavor. I'll put Santa Rosa plums and strawberries from my garden in for the blend since I'm not convinced the blackberries will be flavorful enough or have enough body. For 5 gallons I'll use 13lbs of fruit- 7 lbs blackberries and 6 of other fruit.


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## Raptor99 (Jul 30, 2021)

OrchardRoad said:


> They are watery-er than the native smaller blackberries and wild raspberry



That's what I have heard as well. I wonder how it would work to use more Himalayan blackberries per gallon? I was planning on 5 lbs. per gallon, but I could increase that. Since this is my first time making wild blackberry wine, I don't want to add any other fruit. I would like to see how they taste on their own first. Once I taste the ripe berries, I may have to adjust the amount per gallon.


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## Rice_Guy (Jul 30, 2021)

2.6 pounds of fruit per gallon sounds skinny for a commercial wine where the boss wants a cheap food product.
My preference at home when no one looks at cost of goods is to do 100% fruit juice. 
The EC Krause recipes are for three to five pounds per gallon.


OrchardRoad said:


> , , , , , since I'm not convinced the blackberries will be flavorful enough or have enough body. For 5 gallons I'll use 13lbs of fruit- 7 lbs blackberries and 6 of other fruit. , ,2.6 pounds per gallon


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## Scooter68 (Jul 31, 2021)

Every body has their own likes and dislikes but I agree Rice_Guy 2.6 lbs of almost any fruit sound more like something for a wine cooler than a full on wine.

Raptor99 - Perhaps just plan on using ZERO water in that wine. Get ALL of your liquid volume from the berries and use that juice also if you are going to make a simple syrup., or just stir in your sugar addition directly to the juice. Of course depending on the amount of pulp I'd start out perhaps at volume of 6 to 6.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch.

With berries and some other fruits, I am of the _"opinion"_ that a tree, bush, vine will produce smaller fruit one year when there is less water available and larger fruit in years with plentiful water supply BUT the flavor amount is the same in either case. With larger plumper fruit the same amount of flavor is there but it's distributed in a larger fruit resulting in what seems to be a less flavorful fruit. _Just my opinion_ but I know that others have express similar ideas. That would account for why my nephew took some wild blackberry plants home and his blackberries are much much larger but I'm betting that other than fertilizer impact the difference is mostly water content not so much more flavor.

Those connected to or experienced with vineyards often comment that "perfect soil conditions" does not neccessarily result in better tasting grapes/wine, rather, the more challenging the soil conditions the better the grapes/wines. Happy to be corrected and I know that such comments are not applicable to all fruit and situations. Ok I've rattled on long enough. Good luck on your blackberry and let us know your results.


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## Raptor99 (Jul 31, 2021)

I went out to the new house today and found a few blackberies that are ripe. There should be a lot more next month. As expected, the Himalayan blackberries have a nice flavor, but the flavor is not very strong. I don't know if I can get enough to make wine without adding any water, but I might aim for at least 10 lbs. per gallon. Fruits with a weaker flavor like pear need more fruit per gallon. On the other hand cranberry wine is great with 5 lbs.per gallon.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 1, 2021)

Raptor99 said:


> I went out to the new house today and found a few blackberies that are ripe. There should be a lot more next month. As expected, the Himalayan blackberries have a nice flavor, but the flavor is not very strong. I don't know if I can get enough to make wine without adding any water, but I might aim for at least 10 lbs. per gallon. Fruits with a weaker flavor like pear need more fruit per gallon. On the other hand cranberry wine is great with 5 lbs.per gallon.


You might find that 6-7 lbs gets you a solid flavor.


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 1, 2021)

this is what I do for home “high quality” wines


Scooter68 said:


> . . . Get ALL of your liquid volume from the berries and use that juice also if you are going to make a simple syrup., or just stir in your sugar addition directly to the juice.


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## SLM (Aug 1, 2021)

Raptor99, I made my first wine a year ago with wild blackberries, a port actually. It is so delicious I have to ration it! I'm not sure what variety but I'm north of you in WA. I'll snap a picture when I get home.

I had 80 pounds of berries and got 8 gallons of juice before fortifying. Last year's berries were quite plump. This year they are smaller due to the heat and lack of rain. But we have begun picking and will be using the same recipe. Can't say yet how much juice they will produce but I definitely won't be adding water.


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## SLM (Aug 3, 2021)

Apparently mine are himalayan too, judging by the telltale pentagonal stalk. I think you will be pleased with the flavor.


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## Raptor99 (Aug 3, 2021)

@SLM Thanks for the update and the photos. They look just like my blackberries. Based on your experience, it sounds like you got a gallon of juice from 10 lbs. of berries. That gives me a good starting place.


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## SLM (Aug 3, 2021)

Raptor99 said:


> @SLM Thanks for the update and the photos. They look just like my blackberries. Based on your experience, it sounds like you got a gallon of juice from 10 lbs. of berries. That gives me a good starting place.



Yeah, keep us posted on your results


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## Raptor99 (Aug 3, 2021)

Will do. We are moving later this month, so as the blackberries ripen I will freeze them. Once we get settled in the new place I will start a batch.

Mine are not as ripe as yours, so it will be a few more weeks until I can harvest them.


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 5, 2021)

I have one black berry in the file with a TA of 0.7% (pH 3.91), ,,, ie right on target for a wine with minimal back sweetening, a bit high on pH. I have seen numbers as low as 3.3 on pH so very ripe fruit could use some acid. 


Raptor99 said:


> it sounds like you got a gallon of juice from 10 lbs. of berries. That gives me a good starting place.


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## iridium (Aug 6, 2021)

I did two batches of wine using Himalayan blackberries. The first was 7.5 pounds for a gallon batch and I wish I could have had more. I also made a blackberry port and there I used 10 pounds of fruit.


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## iridium (Aug 6, 2021)

I try to only get the wild blackberries as they are free and I really like their taste.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 7, 2021)

A lot of the difference, and this is just my personal reading on it, comes from the amount of water in a berry. Big Plump berries from the store may have good flavor for eating but I'll take a smaller, less water bloated wild berry every time. I've had some mighty strong flavored black berry wine with just 5lb of blackberries per gallon. Most of those berries are between the size of a penny and a dime but packed with flavor.


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## SLM (Aug 7, 2021)

One thing I might add about these blackberries. While the berries themselves are quite delicious as is, the juice is pretty sour and needs considerable sweetening. Having no experience with country wines, I'm not sure if this is typical.

Wife picked 25 pounds this morning and harvest is just beginning!


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## Scooter68 (Aug 7, 2021)

I'm a lousy judge of when a blackberry is ripe so my wife has always done the picking. Blackberries I pick are typically just as you describe, they are black but they are certainly not ripe and sweet. That might be the issue for you all but if you are experienced berry pickers then, yeah that variety might just need more sugar. ( I don't have that problem picking Black Raspberries - when they are black and pull off easily I know they are ripe, but with blackberries the color doesn't really give me a good ripeness read.)

To prepare my fruit for fermenting - Of course first I crush or do whatever it takes to 'free the juice' then I just start adding sugar (simple syrup (2::1)) until I hit the amount it takes to get the starting SG I want. Since the sugar level varies, I just go that way instead of trying to do any math calculations beforehand.

At 25 pounds if those berries are anything like our here in NW Arkansas - you already have enough for a 5 gallon batch. Also I've always worked with the berries after they have been frozen and that makes the crushing a little easier once they are thawed.


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## SLM (Aug 7, 2021)

Actually, she went 6 hours and now has 50 pounds. And a lot of stains on her skin and clothing!

I freeze as well. But when you say 5 pounds per G, is that all juice? Last year it took me 10 pounds to get a gallon of juice.


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## Raptor99 (Aug 7, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> A lot of the difference, and this is just my personal reading on it, comes from the amount of water in a berry. Big Plump berries from the store may have good flavor for eating but I'll take a smaller, less water bloated wild berry every time. I've had some mighty strong flavored black berry wine with just 5lb of blackberries per gallon. Most of those berries are between the size of a penny and a dime but packed with flavor.



There are different types of wild blackberries: The Pacific Northwest’s better (and native) blackberry The ones I have are Himalayan blackberries, which are larger and do not have as strong a flavor as some of the other wild blackberries.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 8, 2021)

No, that's 5 lbs and water added to reach about 1.3 to -1.4 gallons. 

BUT here's the thing - If you go to 10 lbs and it's too strong, you can always blend in some white wine or something complementary. 
I prefer stronger flavors but for our variety of blackberries 5-6 lbs is plenty for a really solid flavor.


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## SLM (Sep 30, 2021)

@Raptor99 how was your harvest? I pulled mine out of the freezer yesterday, 124 pounds.


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## Raptor99 (Sep 30, 2021)

Nice! We were in the midst of moving, so we only were able to harvest a few pounds, which we will probably save for pies. Do you have any tips for harvesting blackberries? It seems very labor intensive to pick them one by one. Toward the end we tried cutting off clusters and then removing the berries. That made it a little easier, but still a lot of work for each pound. Even the fully ripe berries did not come off the stem easily. How long did it take you to pick 124 lbs?!

I discovered that we have three different types of wild black berries on the property. One is the invasive himalayan blackberries that grow on tall canes. Those do not have as much flavor. We also have two varieties of "trailing" blackberries that grow along the ground. They are a bit smaller, but have a very nice flavor. I think that one of them might be these: Rubus ursinus | Landscape Plants | Oregon State University


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## SLM (Oct 1, 2021)

We only have the tall ones, 8-10 feet, which you helped me identify as Himalayan.

It is indeed labor intensive, and we know no shortcuts. My wife picked them all. A gallon ziplock holds about 7 pounds and each one takes about 2 hours to fill. So a considerable part of her summer went into that job, but she loves my port!

I was disappointed with the yield this year. Last year I got a gallon of juice per 10 pounds of berries. This year I got 10 gallons, so 12.5 pounds per gallon. I guess this summer's heatwave took its toll on my vines, as it did on many of Washington's vineyards.


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## wood1954 (Oct 1, 2021)

SLM said:


> One thing I might add about these blackberries. While the berries themselves are quite delicious as is, the juice is pretty sour and needs considerable sweetening. Having no experience with country wines, I'm not sure if this is typical.
> 
> Wife picked 25 pounds this morning and harvest is just beginning!


Those are some nasty looking plants, I’m thinking of planting thornless blackberries next year.


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## Raptor99 (Oct 1, 2021)

We plan to plant quite a few different kinds of berry bushes next year, including blueberry, raspberry, currants, and huckleberries (if we can find some). Not sure yet if we'll plant domestic blackberries.

I wonder if thornless varieties are more susceptible to pests. At my old house I noticed birds landing on my blueberry bushes, but not on the raspberries. Squirrels will probably stay away from bushes with thorns as well.


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## jskags (Feb 5, 2022)

I put in several varieties of Blackberries over the course of the last 6 years or so. We could never rely on wild so we started planting tame blackberries. With the Deer in our area, the thornless really take a beating and I do not like messing with the nets. I started putting in tame varieties that are thorned. Once we figured how to handle them with thorns and having them in a controlled trellis, we started seeing our yields grow exponentially. We now have only triple crown thornless. The rest are all thorned varieties. We have approximately 300 plus feet of trellis. canes every 3ft. We make and sell jelly locally. This is my first year making wine with them. It has always been my hopes to start. My family has a long history in Germany and Missouri making wine.


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## ChuckD (Feb 5, 2022)

We have wild blackberries as well but very inconsistent harvests so plan on planting some this year as well. I’m on the edge of zone 5 so none of the thornless varieties are hardy. 

Raspberries on the other hand love our climate so I’m planting those as well. 

And no, thorns will not deter squirrels, birds, deer, or mice. Just us soft humans!


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## ChuckD (Feb 5, 2022)

wood1954 said:


> Those are some nasty looking plants, I’m thinking of planting thornless blackberries next year.


Talk to your friendly UWEX agent first. According to the WI plant research farms the hardy to zone 4 or 5 claims on thornless berry varieties is a load of  and you will be lucky to get a crop every 5 years. I was told few blackberry cultivars are hardy up here and all are thorny ones. Apparently even though we have wild blackberries here all the breeding has focused on areas like Missouri and Arkansas.


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## ChuckD (Feb 5, 2022)

wood1954 said:


> Those are some nasty looking plants, I’m thinking of planting thornless blackberries next year.


The UW Extension berry specialist recommend Darrow and Illini Hardy. He said the best thornless is Chester ant that’s Marginal in zone 5. There are claims that Ebony Hardy may be good but that haven’t run trials on it.


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## Ohio Bob (Feb 5, 2022)

I pick wild blackberries at the back of the property by hanging a 2quart zip lock freezer container around my neck, one hand is leather gloved to move branches, the non-gloved hand picks the berries. When it starts to get heavy I dump them in a larger bowl. Each days harvest is water rinsed and goes in the freezer in 1 quart ziplock containers (for easy stacking).

Regarding your recipes, I try to avoid adding any water other than used to boil sugar. Adding water just to fill the carboy is just diluting the must. I get 5-8 pounds of berries per gallon, this number is gallons after primary fermentation once the pumice has been removed. I use this number to plan for carboy sizes, etc.


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## jskags (Feb 5, 2022)

Im very fortunate. I live in Southeast Mo about 30 miles from the AR border. Blackberries of any variety grow well here. When picking your berries be sure to allow the shine to just disappear before picking. A shiny blackberry is not fully ripe. Blackberries do not continue to ripen off of the cane. If you pick it shiny and sour that is how it will remain. Our sweetest harvests for juices and jellies happen while we are picking and the juice is staining our hands. It is not pretty to sell that way but it will really change the sweetness of the blackberry. Just some food for thought.


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## jskags (Feb 5, 2022)

Ohio Bob said:


> I pick wild blackberries at the back of the property by hanging a 2quart zip lock freezer container around my neck, one hand is leather gloved to move branches, the non-gloved hand picks the berries. When it starts to get heavy I dump them in a larger bowl. Each days harvest is water rinsed and goes in the freezer in 1 quart ziplock containers (for easy stacking).
> 
> Regarding your recipes, I try to avoid adding any water other than used to boil sugar. Adding water just to fill the carboy is just diluting the must. I get 5-8 pounds of berries per gallon, this number is gallons after primary fermentation once the pumice has been removed. I use this number to plan for carboy sizes, etc.


I just started a batch with 9 pounds. I was using 4 to 5 and it just didn't have that depth i was looking for. I was going to go with 10 but they wouldn't fit in my bucket, so 9 it is on this batch. I did the same on this batch. I only added water to dilute sugar. Fingers crossed


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## Ohio Bob (Feb 5, 2022)

Maybe I should clarify that I measure the sugar content of the must with a refractometer. However many pounds of sugar it takes is what it gets. In that sense I’m only using the pounds of fruit to know how many bags of sugar to buy, not that I’m going to use them all.


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## wood1954 (Feb 5, 2022)

ChuckD said:


> The UW Extension berry specialist recommend Darrow and Illini Hardy. He said the best thornless is Chester ant that’s Marginal in zone 5. There are claims that Ebony Hardy may be good but that haven’t run trials on it.


Maybe I’ll just stick to grapes


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 6, 2022)

2021 state fair had a very good haskap wine, ,,, haskap is rated to zone 3 or Siberia


wood1954 said:


> Maybe I’ll just stick to grapes


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## BigDaveK (Feb 6, 2022)

Early last year as an experiment I topped off my raspberry and blackberry canes about shoulder height and dramatically increased my yields. Will definitely do it again. I'll have to try it with my wild blackberries this year. My problem is that I have the multiflora rose interspersed with the wild blackberries. Years ago farmers planted them instead of constructing fences. Hard to control, impossible to remove, and I swear the damn things will move to grab you if you get too close.


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## VinesnBines (Feb 6, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> My problem is that I have the multiflora rose interspersed with the wild blackberries. Years ago farmers planted them instead of constructing fences. Hard to control, impossible to remove, and I swear the damn things will move to grab you if you get too close.


Ladybird Johnson and her Highway Beautification Act were responsible for large amounts of the multiflora rose problem in Virginia (at least). The interstate medians and right of ways were planted with multiflora rose. Of course the darn things spread and landowners have been fighting them ever since. I see the little buggers come up in the field if we skip a mowing. Thankfully VDOT agreed it is an invasive species and have tried to eradicate along the highways.


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## BigDaveK (Feb 6, 2022)

VinesnBines said:


> Ladybird Johnson and her Highway Beautification Act were responsible for large amounts of the multiflora rose problem in Virginia (at least). The interstate medians and right of ways were planted with multiflora rose. Of course the darn things spread and landowners have been fighting them ever since. I see the little buggers come up in the field if we skip a mowing. Thankfully VDOT agreed it is an invasive species and have tried to eradicate along the highways.


I've had them grow 15 feet or more up into trees. The roots are shallow and I've tried to pull them out. They can easily go 10 feet. I gave up trying to get rid of them long time ago. Mother Nature has a wacky sense of humor. If we don't want it, it will flourish under the most adverse conditions. If we want it, everything has to be just right.


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## Scooter68 (Feb 6, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Early last year as an experiment I topped off my raspberry and blackberry canes about shoulder height and dramatically increased my yields. Will definitely do it again. I'll have to try it with my wild blackberries this year. My problem is that I have the multiflora rose interspersed with the wild blackberries. Years ago farmers planted them instead of constructing fences. Hard to control, impossible to remove, and I swear the damn things will move to grab you if you get too close.



Wild roses are flesh shredding diabolical plants. Blackberry thorns can draw blood cut roses will shred you and get through just about any clothes or destroy the clothes.

When I'm out clearing trails or walking around getting rid of the ever present climbing vine (Grape and others) Roses are number 1 on my hit list. Even once dead they can still inflict a lot of pain so I drag them to our burn piles.


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## BigDaveK (Feb 7, 2022)

Scooter68 said:


> Wild roses are flesh shredding diabolical plants. Blackberry thorns can draw blood cut roses will shred you and get through just about any clothes or destroy the clothes.
> 
> When I'm out clearing trails or walking around getting rid of the ever present climbing vine (Grape and others) Roses are number 1 on my hit list. Even once dead they can still inflict a lot of pain so I drag them to our burn piles.


Oh yeah. I do most of my removal early in the year because I'm wearing so many layers. And bullet proof gloves.


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## jskags (Feb 7, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Early last year as an experiment I topped off my raspberry and blackberry canes about shoulder height and dramatically increased my yields. Will definitely do it again. I'll have to try it with my wild blackberries this year. My problem is that I have the multiflora rose interspersed with the wild blackberries. Years ago farmers planted them instead of constructing fences. Hard to control, impossible to remove, and I swear the damn things will move to grab you if you get too close.


I tip my canes(blackberry, i don't have raspberries) to 6 ftish. I also don't let my laterals grow longer than 12 to 24 inches. I try to keep laterals about 12 inches apart on the canes. This keeps mildew down and makes for larger berries. I tried pruning wild berries the same as my tame and found that the canes were not strong enough without the trellis. All my tame are erect or semi-erect cane varieties.


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## BigDaveK (Feb 8, 2022)

jskags said:


> I tip my canes(blackberry, i don't have raspberries) to 6 ftish. I also don't let my laterals grow longer than 12 to 24 inches. I try to keep laterals about 12 inches apart on the canes. This keeps mildew down and makes for larger berries. I tried pruning wild berries the same as my tame and found that the canes were not strong enough without the trellis. All my tame are erect or semi-erect cane varieties.


Cane management, at least for me, is a lot easier than vine management. Too many things going on during the year. Too many projects. I need to try harder.

You didn't mention - did pruning wild canes affect yield? I'm really curious.


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## jskags (Feb 8, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Cane management, at least for me, is a lot easier than vine management. Too many things going on during the year. Too many projects. I need to try harder.
> 
> You didn't mention - did pruning wild canes affect yield? I'm really curious.


I couldn’t tell. The wild cane yields are very sporadic. It didn’t help enough to continue. The effort was better suited to expand the tame varieties.


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## jskags (Feb 8, 2022)

jskags said:


> I couldn’t tell. The wild cane yields are very sporadic. It didn’t help enough to continue. The effort was better suited to expand the tame varieties.


Cane management is much more forgiving for sure


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## TurkeyHollow (Feb 8, 2022)

jskags said:


> Cane management is much more forgiving for sure


Do you have any pics of your canes and laterals after pruning? I have blackberries which I've propagated into a couple of rows (maybe a doz. plants) but it seems I got more yield before I started taking care of them. I was just removing the previous year's fruiting wood - I really didn't pay much attention to the laterals (just let them grow).


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## jskags (Feb 8, 2022)

TurkeyHollow said:


> Do you have any pics of your canes and laterals after pruning? I have blackberries which I've propagated into a couple of rows (maybe a doz. plants) but it seems I got more yield before I started taking care of them. I was just removing the previous year's fruiting wood - I really didn't pay much attention to the laterals (just let them grow).



Hard to tell from this photo. There is some longer in the pics that are primocanes that haven't been trellised and tipped yet. But if you look close, the canes have nothing more than 12 to 24 from the trellis. These are triple crown variety.


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## TurkeyHollow (Feb 8, 2022)

jskags said:


> View attachment 84341
> Hard to tell from this photo. There is some longer in the pics that are primocanes that haven't been trellised and tipped yet. But if you look close, the canes have nothing more than 12 to 24 from the trellis. These are triple crown variety.


I'm in New England so there's still snow cover but I think I'll be starting to prune within the next (2) weeks. I do have a make-shift trellis for the blackberries but my grapes have pretty robust trellising. I think I need to transplant the blackberries on a new trellis system. Do you just tie all the canes to the trellis system and trim them to 6'? Then let the laterals do what they want to up to 24" in length? And in dormancy, remove the previous year's floricanes?


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## jskags (Feb 8, 2022)

TurkeyHollow said:


> I'm in New England so there's still snow cover but I think I'll be starting to prune within the next (2) weeks. I do have a make-shift trellis for the blackberries but my grapes have pretty robust trellising. I think I need to transplant the blackberries on a new trellis system. Do you just tie all the canes to the trellis system and trim them to 6'? Then let the laterals do what they want to up to 24" in length? And in dormancy, remove the previous year's floricanes?


that is exactly what I do. I also thin my crowns to the 3 healthiest canes. That pic was from the summer. Still snowy and cold here too. I planted my first grape vines this last summer.


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## TurkeyHollow (Feb 8, 2022)

jskags said:


> that is exactly what I do. I also thin my crowns to the 3 healthiest canes. That pic was from the summer. Still snowy and cold here too. I planted my first grape vines this last summer.


Do you spray your blackberries for powdery, downy mildew or insects (or any other diseases)? Same regimen as grapes?


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## Ohio Bob (Feb 8, 2022)

My experience in Ohio is you can’t kill them. They’re impervious to anything.


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## jskags (Feb 8, 2022)

TurkeyHollow said:


> Do you spray your blackberries for powdery, downy mildew or insects (or any other diseases)? Same regimen as grapes?


I have but not as diligent as other fruit trees and grapes. They are very hardy


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