# synthetic corks



## wineh (Jul 31, 2020)

My usual supplier is having difficulty in acquiring Long Natural corks, and offered me synthetics instead. Good bad or no opinion?


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## cmason1957 (Jul 31, 2020)

wineh said:


> My usual supplier is having difficulty in acquiring Long Natural corks, and offered me synthetics instead. Good bad or no opinion?



Probably good, if you have something other than a hand corker to insert them with. From what I understand it is nearly impossible to insert them with a hand corker.


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## GaDawg (Jul 31, 2020)

I would think your choice of corks depends on whether you are going to drink the wine in a number of months or a number of years.


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## wineh (Jul 31, 2020)

GaDawg said:


> I would think your choice of corks depends on whether you are going to drink the wine in a number of months or a number of years.


Both. From 3 months to 3 years. I mostly make eclipse kits with a few RJS for good measure.


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## dummkopf21 (Jul 31, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> Probably good, if you have something other than a hand corker to insert them with. From what I understand it is nearly impossible to insert them with a hand corker.


Aside from Mist kits or any early drinkers, I've always used the Nomacorc 9 x 1 1/2 synthetic corks for longer storage, and if for nothing else than I don't always have room to lay the bottles on their sides without them rolling all over the place. It's definitely doable with the double lever-type hand corkers, but I'm not sure about the plastic plunger hand corkers. 
If you have something to stabilize the bottles and can get a little bit extra downward force, it works all the better. I usually put the full bottles into empty wine boxes, and once I've run out of juice to bottle, I'll go back and cork everything. That way the bottles are nice and stable with more than enough weight to prevent tipping.


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## Rice_Guy (Jul 31, 2020)

The local store sells Nomacork, it has become my go to. In comparison testing with a vacuum corking tool, the synthetic always holds the vacuum and natural never does. Since I pull a vacuum a tight seal is a positive trait. If you don’t vacuum, be aware that natural breathes releasing pressure. Prior to the current tool I acquired a double lever which works, and a piston style push through a cone which is OK, and to cut the work I started to tap with a rubber hammer.
One of my hats is industry, we like synthetics since they are more reliable, and as @wineh said how long do you want the bottle to last? ,,,,,, that said I reuse screw cap for anything intended to go to the local vinters club,,, and Nomacork for everything else.


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## SpoiledRotten (Jul 31, 2020)

Synthetic corks will give you trouble with extended aging. They really like to bond to the bottle. As me how I know.


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## wineh (Jul 31, 2020)

SpoiledRotten said:


> Synthetic corks will give you trouble with extended aging. They really like to bond to the bottle. As me how I know.


Silly me, I bought 200 of them. The experiment begins today ; we Bottled an eclipse Lodi ranch cab.


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## Hordak (Jul 31, 2020)

I almost exclusively use synthetic and have wine 4yrs old with them and no problems.


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## Rice_Guy (Jul 31, 2020)

Interesting, I started using them about ten years ago, I guess I will have to watch out for that problem



SpoiledRotten said:


> Synthetic corks will give you trouble with extended aging. They really like to bond to the bottle. As me how I know.


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## Brian55 (Aug 1, 2020)

I've used all sorts of corks, none of them have ever caused an issue. Keep in mind I've only made kits, and haven't aged anything too far beyond 5 years.


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## FermentoSapiens (Aug 1, 2020)

I thought the benefit of natural cork is that it gives micro oxygenation that improves the wine when aging. What about syntetic corks in this? If it breath at all, do we really know that they not give off something not healthy to the wine? Do we know everything about what they are made of? Many things we thought was fully safe just a few years ago, we know now are poisonous. Just a thought.


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## wineh (Aug 1, 2020)

FermentoSapiens said:


> I thought the benefit of natural cork is that it gives micro oxygenation that improves the wine when aging. What about syntetic corks in this? If it breath at all, do we really know that they not give off something not healthy to the wine? Do we know everything about what they are made of? Many things we thought was fully safe just a few years ago, we know now are poisonous. Just a thought.


I'm not concerned about the construction as it is :
"low-density polyethylene, a pliable type of plastic. Plastic pellets are melted down, and then turned into a foam consistency so they’ll mimic natural cork’s spongy texture, typically then covered with a smooth outer skin.

The plant-based plastic corks are similar in production, except that they are made from biopolyethylene, a type of renewable polyethylene " (credit Wine Spectator) 

Like you, I'd like to know if they breathe like cork, and my online research has produced mixed results. I'm not a fan of doing my own 3 year science projects but it's on I guess.


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## CDrew (Aug 1, 2020)

The Normacorc "green" corks (green in the environmental sense-biosource for the polyethylene) are made with predictable Oxygen ingress rates in mind, and Vinventions (the makers of Normacorc ) publish the oxygen permeability on their website.

My take is that Normacorcs are the real deal, and as good, if not better than, natural corks. I bottled all the 2018 with these and plan to do the same with 2019 when it needs to be bottled. There are different grades in their line and the Select Green 300 seems to be the sweet spot for me. Rated for 15 years or so. Classic green is available on Amazon in small quantities and works great in my experience. I'm thinking as a home wine maker that all these wine will be consumed in 5-10 years, and anything more is overkill.









Nomacorc - PlantCorc™ wine closures


Nomacorc's Green Line range is a new "category" of corks made from sustainable and renewable raw materials.




www.vinventions.com


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## hounddawg (Aug 1, 2020)

wineh said:


> My usual supplier is having difficulty in acquiring Long Natural corks, and offered me synthetics instead. Good bad or no opinion?


NOMACORC corks both breath and will do long storage, for several years i used only Flor corks, none better for natural corks, then i tried them nomacorc can be stored both standing or laying down, with no problems at all, now 1 & 1/2 are not for long storage, by long i mean better than 10 years, and EBAY is the only place i can find them in 1 & 3/4, that's 100 for just under $30,,, their center is made to ever so slightly breath, and yep you'll really, really need a floor corker,,,
Dawg


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## bstnh1 (Aug 2, 2020)

Does anyone know what grade of Nomacorc are sold by LD Carlson??? A lot of online brew shops sell them, but I can't find any mention of grade.

Disregard that question.  On the LD Carlson site they say the Nomacorc they sell are the Select 900 series.


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## bstnh1 (Aug 2, 2020)

If anyone is interested in the technical specs of the Nomacorc Select 900, here's the link:

https://www.vinventions.com/assets/...8e09b3ce9/sellsheet-nomacorc-select900-en.pdf


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## Rocky (Aug 2, 2020)

co-extrusion - Bing video







www.bing.com





I found this on the internet. Interesting process for sure. I would not have thought this is how it is done. From the video, showing how the corks are cut to size, it would seem that the ends of the cork are mostly the "foam core" material and would allow a degree of micro-oxygenation.


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## FermentoSapiens (Aug 3, 2020)

Thought maybe there could be some kind of phthalates as softener in synthetic corks but it sounds like that maybe is not the case. Thats good to know.


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## GaDawg (Aug 3, 2020)

Rocky said:


> co-extrusion - Bing video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thinks Rocky! At one time I was an extruder operator for Western Electric


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## Rocky (Aug 3, 2020)

GaDawg said:


> Thinks Rocky! At one time I was an extruder operator for Western Electric


My extruding experience is limited to my pasta making machine! I was not aware of the co-extrusion process. Really interesting to me.


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## GaDawg (Aug 3, 2020)

We did co extrusion, and we had a core of a petroleum jelly substance to float fiber optic.


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## bstnh1 (Aug 4, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> NOMACORC corks both breath and will do long storage, for several years i used only Flor corks, none better for natural corks, then i tried them nomacorc can be stored both standing or laying down, with no problems at all, now 1 & 1/2 are not for long storage, by long i mean better than 10 years, and EBAY is the only place i can find them in 1 & 3/4, that's 100 for just under $30,,, their center is made to ever so slightly breath, and yep you'll really, really need a floor corker,,,
> Dawg



Hobbyhomebrew.com has the 1 3/4 , about $30 for 100, $250 for 1000. Somewhere along the way I remember reading that the length of the cork is not an issue and that it's related more to aesthetics than sealing ability.


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## GaDawg (Aug 5, 2020)

With natural corks I stand them us for several days to give the cork time to decompress. What do you do with synthetic corks?


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## kuziwk (Aug 6, 2020)

wineh said:


> My usual supplier is having difficulty in acquiring Long Natural corks, and offered me synthetics instead. Good bad or no opinion?


Are they agglomerated or fully synthetic? Agglomerated are ok, synthetic or bad for reds as they are not great for aging.


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## bstnh1 (Aug 6, 2020)

kuziwk said:


> Are they agglomerated or fully synthetic? Agglomerated are ok, synthetic or bad for reds as they are not great for aging.



If they're Nomacorc, they're good for 10 years plus.


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 6, 2020)

I may put them on a rack, and may label and immediately transfer to a case for storage on a shelf. ,,,, it doesn’t matter


GaDawg said:


> With natural corks I stand them us for several days to give the cork time to decompress. What do you do with synthetic corks?


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## kuziwk (Aug 7, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> If they're Nomacorc, they're good for 10 years plus.


Hmm never heard of them, they look pretty good though. I just use the agglomerated ones from winekitz they are good for 5 years maybe. Basically finely ground up cork and pressed/glued together but they can still breathe and let O2 in over time. I also have real corks and they are a pain, i’ve had two or three bottles leak on me already.


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## wineh (Sep 12, 2020)

So I sent a detailed email to RJS, asking if their synthetics will allow for controlled air ingress and this is the reply I got :
Good evening Dave

I recommend synthetic corks when aging for a year plus as they do not leak in air or breakdown as agglo corks can

It does not give me great confidence.


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## kuziwk (Sep 12, 2020)

wineh said:


> So I sent a detailed email to RJS, asking if their synthetics will allow for controlled air ingress and this is the reply I got :
> Good evening Dave
> 
> I recommend synthetic corks when aging for a year plus as they do not leak in air or breakdown as agglo corks can
> ...



I use agglomerated corks, some of my bottles that I drank were 3 years and they were fine. You don't want synthetic corks, you want micro oxygenation in your reds as it helps them age. There is no reason why good quality natural corks or agglomerated corks won't last five years or more depending on the wine. The exception is if you are bulk aging for a over a year and you are not trying to bottle age.


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## CDrew (Sep 12, 2020)

kuziwk said:


> You don't want synthetic corks, you want micro oxygenation in your reds as it helps them age.




Normacorcs do allow micro oxygenation according to their literature. In fact they have different corks with calibrated and published oxygen ingress specs. Amazon is the best source I could find for the different grades.

And, I just got 1000 "Normacorc select green 300" (used 300s and 900s last year) which is supposedly good for 15 years of aging. And BTW-they are not green colored. They look like natural corks. I did a test run in my Italian floor corker and it had no problem with them. The downside is you have to buy 1000 at a time. I bought through Amazon but they shipped directly from Vinventions who is the manufacturer. Their top end, is "Reserva" which I think is rated for 25 years of aging.

I see lots of advantages for synthetics for home wine makers. Much more controlled, no risk of cork tastes, and more scientific about O2 ingress too. Do your homework and I think you might like the Normacorcs.



https://www.amazon.com/s?k=vinventions&ref=nb_sb_noss_1


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## wineh (Sep 12, 2020)

Well I've done 2 more things. I have some natural corks left so I Bottled a batch using half corks, half synthetics. I'll let you know in a year if there's a significant difference. I also asked for clarification from RJS. I'll see if I can source some nomacorcs in my location.


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## hounddawg (Sep 12, 2020)

i used to use Flor corks, then i went to select nomacroc #9 x 1 3/4 i get them in lots of 100 for $30,oo that's 30 cents a cork, i looked at thousand lots but they wanted $289,,00 or just short of 29 cents each, 
Dawg


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## crushday (Sep 12, 2020)

SpoiledRotten said:


> Synthetic corks will give you trouble with extended aging. They really like to bond to the bottle. As (Ask) me how I know.



Ok, I’ll play along. How do you know? I have been using synthetic corks for a couple years. Am I on a runaway train?


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## hounddawg (Sep 12, 2020)

crushday said:


> Ok, I’ll play along. How do you know? I have been using synthetic corks for a couple years. Am I on a runaway train?


i use select 900 good for at least 10 to 15 years, now nomacroc 300 reserva are good for 25 years, i just yesterday popped a peach wine from 2016, was very good, i got melomels back to 2015, that i open 1 a year, got about 6 years to go, i use nomacroc select 900 #9 x 1 3/4 long, but i am looking for some nomacroc reserva 300, they are for 25 years, 
Dawg


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## wineh (Sep 18, 2020)

wineh said:


> Well I've done 2 more things. I have some natural corks left so I Bottled a batch using half corks, half synthetics. I'll let you know in a year if there's a significant difference. I also asked for clarification from RJS. I'll see if I can source some nomacorcs in my location.


So I heard back from RJS, and was pleased to learn that their synthetics are made by Nomacorc.


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## hounddawg (Sep 18, 2020)

wineh said:


> So I heard back from RJS, and was pleased to learn that their synthetics are made by Nomacorc.


i used Flor corks for a few years, then @vacuumpumpman told me he had some aged wine some was naturel cork. what kind i don't know, and he said he had some nomacroc's on the others he told me each year he had tried each to see the difference, and both worked fine, so for a few years now i use only #9 by 1 3/4, nomacroc, then i read a post a week or two ago, they were getting nomacroc resereva, that's a wee bit bigger around and are rated for 25 years, the only hassle for me is i can only find them in 1000 lot size, $298. i reckon they'll keep i hope, i don't tend to bottle that many bottles a year, i use 200 to 400 corks a year, but as soon as i use up the almost 400 i got now, I'm going to buy me a 1000 lot, of nomaroc reserva,, i like drinking some wine, but i am a full blown addicted to making wines, this RJS what is their web address, 
Skoal to all...
Dawg


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## wineh (Sep 18, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> i used Flor corks for a few years, then @vacuumpumpman told me he had some aged wine some was naturel cork. what kind i don't know, and he said he had some nomacroc's on the others he told me each year he had tried each to see the difference, and both worked fine, so for a few years now i use only #9 by 1 3/4, nomacroc, then i read a post a week or two ago, they were getting nomacroc resereva, that's a wee bit bigger around and are rated for 25 years, the only hassle for me is i can only find them in 1000 lot size, $298. i reckon they'll keep i hope, i don't tend to bottle that many bottles a year, i use 200 to 400 corks a year, but as soon as i use up the almost 400 i got now, I'm going to buy me a 1000 lot, of nomaroc reserva,, i like drinking some wine, but i am a full blown addicted to making wines, this RJS what is their web address,
> Skoal to all...
> Dawg


[email protected]
It's RJ Spagnols


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## hounddawg (Sep 18, 2020)

wineh said:


> [email protected]
> It's RJ Spagnols


thank you.
Dawg


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## Jasienic (Sep 21, 2020)

wineh said:


> Silly me, I bought 200 of them. The experiment begins today ; we Bottled an eclipse Lodi ranch cab.


wineh, do not worry at all. Information from SpoiledRotten is just ... spoiled/rotten.  It is just not true if you buy good brand, like Nomacork. I am using them for years - close to 2000 bottles. More and more producers move to synthetic corks. They are better and better, and often superior to natural corks. It is easy to find information about that on Google.


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## vacuumpumpman (Sep 22, 2020)

I really like and enjoy using the Nomacork corks. I also thought that 1000 pcs were going to take forever to go thru and couple of years go by and I'm ordering another 1000 pcs.


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## hounddawg (Sep 22, 2020)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I really like and enjoy using the Nomacork corks. I also thought that 1000 pcs were going to take forever to go thru and couple of years go by and I'm ordering another 1000 pcs.


that's because you cork one bottle for every for every 3 you drink.....LOL
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Oct 2, 2020)

dang i lost the web site where to buy nomacroc reserva 1000 lots, does anyone have the site that sells them, i've tried the search engine, but can only find info on them, someone here on WMT posted the site to buy nomacroc reserva, i thought i bookmarked but i can not fine the site, i have select 900's ,, but really want to go the nomacroc reservra,
thanks
Dawg


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## CDrew (Oct 3, 2020)

https://www.amazon.com/Reserva-Wine-Closure-47x23-5-mm/dp/B07RFTGSH9/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&m=AR01OPNKCIOBT&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1601739125&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3


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## hounddawg (Oct 3, 2020)

CDrew said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Reserva-Wine-Closure-47x23-5-mm/dp/B07RFTGSH9/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&m=AR01OPNKCIOBT&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1601739125&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3


thank you so much

Dawg


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## hounddawg (Oct 3, 2020)

CDrew said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Reserva-Wine-Closure-47x23-5-mm/dp/B07RFTGSH9/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&m=AR01OPNKCIOBT&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1601739125&s=merchant-items&sr=1-3


first what I'm fixing to say, I will say with my head down!
I have two long sets of bookmarks, I had went threw both of them super long lists,  desperate, I posted on here, and you posted the site I thought I had lost, you can not imagine to my chagrin, gawd this is embarrassing,,,, you posted i went there and there they were,,, saved in my list, right now i am two things, indebted to you for your kind help, and i feel 2 inches tall. and the worst is without your help,, I would have never checked there, Hat in hand I thank you @"CDrew
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Oct 3, 2020)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I really like and enjoy using the Nomacork corks. I also thought that 1000 pcs were going to take forever to go thru and couple of years go by and I'm ordering another 1000 pcs.


hey Steve @vacuumpumpman , do you just store your extra nomacrocks in ziploc freezer baggies, since i have been buying nomacroc's 900 select that is what i do, but this thousand lot will last me probably a couple years, with smaller lots I just ordered,, and did not store for long, this year i got 200 then 400, so no long term storage, a thousand lot will last me 2 years, hope you and your family are great,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Nov 25, 2020)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I really like and enjoy using the Nomacork corks. I also thought that 1000 pcs were going to take forever to go thru and couple of years go by and I'm ordering another 1000 pcs.


how do you store them, if i order 1,000 that will be a few years worth for me, just in zip loc's, zip locks in freezer, or fridge??
Dawg


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## NoQuarter (Nov 25, 2020)

Ziplocks are fine, I use a big old tupperware thing made for cereal or something. Just keep away from bright sunlight or high heat.


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## hounddawg (Nov 25, 2020)

NoQuarter said:


> Ziplocks are fine, I use a big old tupperware thing made for cereal or something. Just keep away from bright sunlight or high heat.


funny i have a giant Tupper ware bowl and lid I've used 4 times max in the last 20 years because it is to big unless you got 10 to 15 hungry little children, lol,, thank you.  
Dawg


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 26, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> how do you store them, if i order 1,000 that will be a few years worth for me, just in zip loc's, zip locks in freezer, or fridge??
> Dawg



I just close up the original bag - not air tight. (typically a tied knot)
Remember they are synthetic - what can go wrong with them ?

I keep them in a clean and damp free area and sanitize them prior to use.


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## hounddawg (Nov 26, 2020)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I just close up the original bag - not air tight. (typically a tied knot)
> Remember they are synthetic - what can go wrong with them ?
> 
> I keep them in a clean and damp free area and sanitize them prior to use.


hehe,, never ask what can go wrong with me,,, lol
Dawg


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## Crafty Winemaker (Nov 26, 2020)

I have been using large cleaned pretzel containers. 2 of them will store 1000.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 26, 2020)

I keep nomacorcs in the original bag, folding the top over twice and using a binder clip to seal the bag.


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## Ted Brumleve (Nov 26, 2020)

Format:BookAuthor:Taber, George M.Title:To cork or not to cork : tradition, romance, science, and the battle for the wine bottle / George M. Taber.Edition:1st Scribner hardcover ed.Publisher, Date:New York : Scribner, 2007Description:vii, 278 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.Summary:Explores the controversy about corking and wine-bottle sealing that has spawned a heated debate throughout the oenological community, tracing the history of the cork while evaluating the merits and shortcomings of other seal contenders.Subjects:Wine and wine making.
Cork -- History.
Bottle corks -- History.Notes:Includes bibliographical references (p. 267-268) and index.LCCN:2007299750
An interesting read.


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## hounddawg (Nov 26, 2020)

yeah i keep 300 to 400 around, i just needed to know because a thousand lot will last me for a while, going from normacroc 900 select to normacroc reserva
Dawg


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## bstnh1 (Nov 27, 2020)

Found this on the web - at thecarycompany.com. Not sure where they got this info.

*"Nomacorc® closures are recommended for use within 6 months after production date and should be stored in a cool, dry location prior to use. Each bag of closures should be used directly after opening. "*


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## winemaker81 (Nov 27, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> _"Nomacorc® closures are recommended for use within 6 months after production date and should be stored in a cool, dry location prior to use. Each bag of closures should be used directly after opening. "_


Huh. I'm not following this best practice, as I like to keep a hundred or two ahead of production, as things crop up. So far I've had no problems, but time will tell.


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## hounddawg (Nov 27, 2020)

yeah for a few years now i generally keep around 400#, of normacroc select 900's, 1 & 3/4" #9's
'. i keep mine in original bags or zip locks in a small cooler in my wine room, 400 usually last me better then a year, the reason i originally ask was because when the last are gone (250'ish) i am going to nomacroc green 300 reserva, um i think i know for sure the nomacroc reserva, which is 25 year rated but i can only find 1,000 lots of them . , i drink 1 to 2 glasses a day, drinking i have no problem with, but i am uncontrollably addicted to making wine, sooo i end up with more and more wine, beings i'm a old single man, my wine room is full, behind my recliners are full and i just gave some furniture to my niece, and her hubby needs to hurry and come for it, because i have started a stack down my living room wall, lol,, 
i have another bedroom but it is full of my carpentry tools, I'm fixing to have a 48 foot shipping container up near my home to fill with my tools, that will give me another couple hundred square feet to store wine in that bedroom,,, I'd gave away a solid stock wood bedroom suit to my brother to make room for the tools,, UM did i mention that last January i came close to doubling my carboys, shoot sometimes i go days with out a sip of wine, but a empty carboy sends me into withdraw symptoms,,, if i remove a couple wine racks in my wine room i think i can fit between 6 to 8 more 6,gal carboys in my wine room, 
there is nothing wrong with me  ,,,,,
Dawg,


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## Neb Farmer (Nov 28, 2020)

You would *think* synthetic corks would last longer than WE will ! That said , Dawg ... there is no such thing as too much wine! You're on track !


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## CDrew (Nov 28, 2020)

It would be weird that they can last 15+ years in a wine bottle and only 6 months in the bag. 1000 is enough for 2.5-3 years for my production. Not going to sweat it.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 28, 2020)

Neb Farmer said:


> You would *think* synthetic corks would last longer than WE will !


Yeah, that made me scratch my head -- if the cork will last in the bottle anywhere from 3 to 25 years ... why is it not shelf stable in a bag?


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## hounddawg (Nov 28, 2020)

yep bet that 6 month that nomacroc stated was to sell more, 
Dawg


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## bkisel (Nov 28, 2020)

Many years ago in communication with Nomacork I was advised to use the Select 900 series with my floor corker. Over the many years I've used Nomacork I've not run into any issues but then I don't think I've ever had one in a bottle for much over three years.


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## bkisel (Nov 28, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Found this on the web - at thecarycompany.com. Not sure where they got this info.
> 
> *"Nomacorc® closures are recommended for use within 6 months after production date and should be stored in a cool, dry location prior to use. Each bag of closures should be used directly after opening. "*



Yeah, I saw that somewhere myself after having just bought a 1K count. This was about 3 1/2 years ago and I'm guessing I have about 400-500 left [I do a lot of 1.5L bottling and also will use non-synthetic corks is why they're not all used.]. I'm to frugal/cheap to discard what I have so will disregard the recommendation until my next smaller lot purchase.


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## hounddawg (Nov 28, 2020)

bkisel said:


> Many years ago in communication with Nomacork I was advised to use the Select 900 series with my floor corker. Over the many years I've used Nomacork I've not run into any issues but then I don't think I've ever had one in a bottle for much over three years.


i've got bottles at 6 going to 7 years the 900 select, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Nov 28, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> Yeah, that made me scratch my head -- if the cork will last in the bottle anywhere from 3 to 25 years ... why is it not shelf stable in a bag?


yep,,, me too
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Nov 28, 2020)

Neb Farmer said:


> You would *think* synthetic corks would last longer than WE will ! That said , Dawg ... there is no such thing as too much wine! You're on track !


that is the finest answer and complement i have ever received @Neb Farmer 
Thank You
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Nov 28, 2020)

bkisel said:


> Yeah, I saw that somewhere myself after having just bought a 1K count. This was about 3 1/2 years ago and I'm guessing I have about 400-500 left [I do a lot of 1.5L bottling and also will use non-synthetic corks is why they're not all used.]. I'm to frugal/cheap to discard what I have so will disregard the recommendation until my next smaller lot purchase.


yeah you cant believe directions ,, i once bought a puzzle that said 4 to 6 years,, yet i put it together in only 6 months,,,,
Dawg


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## pillswoj (Nov 29, 2020)

The 6 month after production date is a liability thing, every consumable must have a shelf life and generally companies make them short. Hell buying nomacorks from a 3rd party distributor it is likely they are past 6 months from production when you buy them.


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## stickman (Nov 29, 2020)

I agree it's primarily a CYA issue, Nomacorc is marketing a precision product with specifications including oxygen ingress rates etc. I noticed their most recent storage limit indicates 1 year, but for most home winemakers, storage time probably doesn't matter much. The only exception might be the top of the line Reserva or Select Green 100, which most home winemakers wouldn't buy anyway. Both of these grades have a very low oxygen ingress rate for the first year, which may mean they used an inert gas instead of air to produce the foam core (my speculation based on the core providing additional oxygen during the first year). If that's the case, then storage beyond a year would allow enough time for ambient air to exchange with the gas in the foam core, which would increase their first year oxygen ingress rate specification; essentially the Select Green 100 becomes the Select Green 300 upon aging. Again this is just my interpretation of the Nomacorc data.


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## mainshipfred (Nov 29, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> yeah you cant believe directions ,, i once bought a puzzle that said 4 to 6 years,, yet i put it together in only 6 months,,,,
> Dawg



That's too funny! You missed your calling.


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## wineh (Jan 12, 2021)

So I noticed that some of my synthetics are leaking. Upon closer inspection, some of my recently bottled with cork leaked a bit as well. It turns out my floor corker is starting to pinch the corks. need a new floor corker I guess. will buy the better one this time.


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## Brian55 (Jan 12, 2021)

wineh said:


> So I noticed that some of my synthetics are leaking. Upon closer inspection, some of my recently bottled with cork leaked a bit as well. It turns out my floor corker is starting to pinch the corks. need a new floor corker I guess. will buy the better one this time.


Which one did you have, and what should others look for as signs that theirs is starting to fail?


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## wineh (Jan 12, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> Which one did you have, and what should others look for as signs that theirs is starting to fail?


No brand name, but it has plastic Jaws that appear to be curling at the thin end. Running a cork through it produces a vertical pinch line on the cork.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 12, 2021)

There are many sources for replacement jaws, but a new Portuguese Floor corker is under $75.00. 









Replacement Jaws For Portuguese Floor Corker


Buy Replacement Jaws For Portuguese Floor Corker Price: $16.42. Label Peelers is proud to offer LD Carlson brand of products. SKU: 4043 in New condition.




labelpeelers.com


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## winemaker81 (Jan 12, 2021)

I've looked at the Portuguese corkers. They're relatively small and easy to store. If doing wine a carboy (2 cases) at a time, they appear fine.

However, I recommend against plastic jaws. Corks undergo a lot of compression before going into the bottle, and plastic is less likely to hold up in the long term.

Food for thought -- an *Italian floor corker* is ~$130 USD on Amazon. It's bigger and heavier, and takes up more space. The jaws are brass and mine (purchased in 1989) is still going strong. I've never had a problem putting any cork in any bottle, and bottling 3 or 4 carboys at a time goes smoothly. Anyone who believes they'll be making wine for a long time, and has the resources, may be better served buying a better corker.

I still have my original double-lever corker. It did the job, but I haven't used it since I used the floor corker the first time. I gave it to my brother who used it off-n-on for 25 years, before giving it back to me as he stopped making wine.

EDIT: My son uses my corker as he lives relatively close. It's likely he'll inherit the corker ... although neither of us is planning for that to happen any time soon!


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## Brian55 (Jan 12, 2021)

According to Morewine.com the premium floor corkers aren't compatible with synthetic corks: Ferrari Floor Corker With Chrome Jaws | MoreWine
& Wine Corker - Italian (Floor) | MoreWine

This is still going strong after almost 10 years and thousands of bottles run through it, but I don't use synthetic corks: Table Top Corker | MoreWine


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## mainshipfred (Jan 12, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> According to Morewine.com the premium floor corkers aren't compatible with synthetic corks: Ferrari Floor Corker With Chrome Jaws | MoreWine
> & Wine Corker - Italian (Floor) | MoreWine
> 
> This is still going strong after almost 10 years and thousands of bottles run through it, but I don't use synthetic corks: Table Top Corker | MoreWine



Has anyone found this to be true concerning the synthetic corks with the Ferrari as Morewine state?


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## winemaker81 (Jan 12, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Has anyone found this to be true concerning the synthetic corks with the Ferrari as Morewine state?


My Ferrari has plain 'ole brass jaws and it works fine with Nomacorcs -- been using them for several years and have yet to mess up a cork. I've yet to find a cork it could not put into a normal wine bottle.

I have no idea if chrome plating (follow the link in @Brian55's post above) makes a difference. I doubt the jaw design has changed much (if at all). Someone with a newer corker will have to chime in.


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## hounddawg (Jan 12, 2021)

the Italian floor corker is the way to go, i do as my state allows of 100 gallons a year  cough,,,
with metal jaws it is like sliced bread
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jan 12, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> My Ferrari has plain 'ole brass jaws and it works fine with Nomacorcs -- been using them for several years and have yet to mess up a cork. I've yet to find a cork it could not put into a normal wine bottle.
> 
> I have no idea if chrome plating (follow the link in @Brian55's post above) makes a difference. I doubt the jaw design has changed much (if at all). Someone with a newer corker will have to chime in.


Agreed,,,, my Italian floor corker has only had FLOR corks and Noma croc select 900's put thru it for quite a spell, and knock on wood still as smooth as silk, 
Dawg


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## wineh (Jan 12, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> My Ferrari has plain 'ole brass jaws and it works fine with Nomacorcs -- been using them for several years and have yet to mess up a cork. I've yet to find a cork it could not put into a normal wine bottle.
> 
> I have no idea if chrome plating (follow the link in @Brian55's post above) makes a difference. I doubt the jaw design has changed much (if at all). Someone with a newer corker will have to chime in.


Morewine also lists the brass Jaw model and states it is not compatible with synthetic corks either. Now I'm confused.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 13, 2021)

wineh said:


> Morewine also lists the brass Jaw model and states it is not compatible with synthetic corks either. Now I'm confused.


It's possible that a few people experienced problems, so the blanket warning is posted to avoid returns of the corker.

It's also possible that specific (probably really cheap) synthetic corks get notched, although it's not obvious why -- the jaws work the way they work. Dawg & I use Nomacorcs and experience no problems.

If anyone uses a non-Nomacorc synthetic and wants a test, PM me -- you can send me a couple of corks and I'll try them in my corker, sending pictures of what the corks look like when pulled.


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## stickman (Jan 13, 2021)

I don't use Nomacorc or synthetics extensively, but I have put at least several hundred through my Italian corker without any problems. I recall a discussion in the past regarding some corker jaws having a burr that needed to be carefully knocked down with emery cloth. Inspect the jaws in operation and make sure everything is smooth especially when jaws are at the final compression position. It might be best to try a test in the suspect corker by compressing the Nomacorc all the way, but don't drive it through the jaws, then release and check the cork for damage. This will help determine if the problem is during compression or just during the insertion. If the damage only occurrs during insertion, then check the jaws when fully closed for sharp edges on the side corresponding to where the damage is noted on the cork.

The Nomacorc bottling guide has some details in the corking equipment section.


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## hounddawg (Jan 13, 2021)

like @winemaker81 said, I've burnt through almost a thousand nomacroc select 900's with out a single problem, i looked up a corker that others above mentioned and did not know what it was, it turned out to be a Italian floor corked with chrome plated jaws , mine is just brass, the ones they we're complaining about looked just like mine but had chrome plating on the jaws, um a so called upgrade for Champaign , other then that ones chrome plating i saw no other differences, 
Dawg


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## mainshipfred (Jan 13, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> like @winemaker81 said, I've burnt through almost a thousand nomacroc select 900's with out a single problem, i looked up a corker that others above mentioned and did not know what it was, it turned out to be a Italian floor corked with chrome plated jaws , mine is just brass, the ones they we're complaining about looked just like mine but had chrome plating on the jaws, um a so called upgrade for Champaign , other then that ones chrome plating i saw no other differences,
> Dawg



Good to know since I'm down to my last 150 natural corks and considering going to Normacorcs. Would hate to buy 1000 and not be able to use them.


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## hounddawg (Jan 13, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Good to know since I'm down to my last 150 natural corks and considering going to Normacorcs. Would hate to buy 1000 and not be able to use them.


you can get select 900's #9 x 1 & 3/4 in 1 hundred lot bags on eBay turn key for $30 , that is cheap to find out if you like them, nomaroc's are good standing or laying on thier sides, i have wines 5 an 6 years old and they are the same as the FLOR's are, for 10 years, if you want longer their is normacroc reserva that are rated for a minimum of 25 years, on amazon 1000 lot for $300
Dawg


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## mainshipfred (Jan 13, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> you can get select 900's #9 x 1 & 3/4 in 1 hundred lot bags on eBay turn key for $30 , that is cheap to find out if you like them, nomaroc's are good standing or laying on thier sides, i have wines 5 an 6 years old and they are the same as the FLOR's are, for 10 years, if you want longer their is normacroc reserva that are rated for a minimum of 25 years, on amazon 1000 lot for $300
> Dawg



Afraid neither me or my wines are going to make it 25 years so that one out! Good point though to buy a smaller quantity first.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 13, 2021)

@stickman, thanks for posting the Nomacorc document. Some of their points don't make practical sense, but do make legal "let's cover our butts" sense.

If I had a problem, first I'd examine the jaws up to the point where they are hidden by the rod that pushes the cork into the bottle. If the jaws are not tight fitting or if there is a burr, that is most likely the problem.

I'm unsure how well just compressing the cork will work, as the act of punching it through the jaws may be the problem. One thought is to simply cork a bottle, pull the cork, and examine it. If there is a problem, investigate further.

Without having a corking problem myself, all I can do is theorize. Not that I'm complaining about not having a problem .....  

I'm using the #9 x 1.5" Nomacorcs, and after a couple of years experience no problems. I may get to the 5 year mark and wish I had purchased the higher grade, but I won't know until I get there ....


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## Wine Lab (Jan 13, 2021)

I find this thread interesting in that I am going through the same thing myself - i.e. my Portuguese floor corker with a 4 jaw plastic jaw system is doing the same thing, i.e. putting a crease in synthetic corks that causes the bottled to leak if you put them on their side. It appears that the jaws don't meet perfectly in a circle to compress the cork without putting a crease in it. The wine supplier shop I bought it from said the problem was well known and his advice was to count to three when I had the cork compressed before inserting the cork and that should help with preventing the crease, but it didn't.

So then I contacted a MoreWine sales rep and asked him why do they say a hand corker will work with synthetic cork and a floor corker will not, he then told me a hand corker would not have enough leverage for synthetic corks so he recommends a floor corker. I told him to read the comments on their website re floor corkers and synthetic corks and he then he came back with the party line that they don't recommend floor corkers with plastic jaws for these corks (W410) but any other floor corker would work, even though that is not what their website states, and includes the one with brass jaws, saying it is not recommended for synthetic corks.. So no help whatsoever, they sound very confused on their own products they sell.

I then contacted a sales rep with the Nomacorc company, and he said first, you need a floor corker to get the compression needed for synthetic corks if you are doing any amount at all, a hand corker will be tiring, and second, to him it does not matter if the floor corker has 3 jaws or 4 jaws, whether plastic or brass, the jaws have to be adjustable, so you can add a shim or something to eliminate all gaps or sharp edges when the jaws compress to form that perfect circle. The key to him was to buy an adjustable compression floor corker, in other words, a jaw system that can be pulled apart and adjusted, even shimmed if necessary.

I then started looking for an adjustable jaws floor corker, I am thinking brass jaws would be better for staying aligned and true, but it did not matter, I could not find anyone who sold anything resembling this.

So I am back at square one, having had no luck in resolving this. I could order replacement plastic jaws for my Portuguese floor corker, but that is really not solving the problem as there is no adjustment as far as I can tell.. There appears to a ton of misinformation out there for a relatively simple problem and a very common problem, and even the Vendors that sell them, like MoreWine seem confused and have no solutions other than recommending a small hand corker with plastic jaws, which makes no sense. Any help on this would be appreciated.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 13, 2021)

Off hand, the supply shops like MoreWine simply regurgitate what the manufacturers tell them. They don't question it, they just post it -- mostly for liability reasons and to avoid returns.

The Nomacorc salesman? In my experience, far too many sales folk do not understand what they are selling. Kind of like phone support that works off a script and has no idea what to do if pushed off the script.

Some months back there was a thread regarding disassembling and reassembling a floor corker. It included pictures showing what the internals look like. That thread may provide additional information.


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## CDrew (Jan 13, 2021)

I've had no problems with my Ferrari floor corker and Normacorcs. It does mark the cork where the brass jaws come together but it does't crease it or cause leaks. I suggest you do the test for yourself. I've been happy with Normacorcs.

You can buy small bags of Normacorcs on Amazon for small money.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 13, 2021)

I popped the cork on a wine I bottled nearly 1.5 years ago, and examined the cork. There is a mark on the cork, but I've not had one leak (yet).




One thing to keep in mind is that home wine makers with a corking machine that costs less than $150 USD are NOT going to get a cork that comes out of the bottle looking perfect, as we don't have $10,000+ corking machines .....

 

Oddly enough, until I looked at this picture, it never occurred to me that my corks come out of the bottle somewhat deformed.

Why? Because it doesn't matter. This cork sealed the bottle just fine, it did it's job, so I did not pay much attention to it.

I'm leaning towards the idea that natural corks spring back better from the effects of the corker. Problems with synthetic corks may be due to misalignment of the jaws.

Note: I line up the grape imprint so the stem is at the top. The crease is produced by the bottom of the jaws.


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## hounddawg (Jan 13, 2021)

CDrew said:


> I've had no problems with my Ferrari floor corker and Normacorcs. It does mark the cork where the brass jaws come together but it does't crease it or cause leaks. I suggest you do the test for yourself. I've been happy with Normacorcs.
> 
> You can buy small bags of Normacorcs on Amazon for small money.


that Ferrari floor corker, from what i could find is mainly a Italian floor corker with the difference being the Ferrari has chrome plated jaws, and the Italian floor corker having brass jaws, i repeat that's all i could find, and the reason I'M asking is beings you own a Ferrari floor corker, until this thread i had not every heard of a Ferrari. 
Thank You
Dawg


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## Rembee (Jan 13, 2021)

I've been using Nomacorc #9x1.5 for a few years now with a Portuguese floor corker that I bought from E.C. Kraus back in 2004. I have not had any problems with any corks or this floor corker. There is a lot of mention about the Italian floor corker but has anyone had problems with a Portuguese corker?


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## hounddawg (Jan 14, 2021)

not that i know of, and your statement has zero to do with my question, I stated that before yesterday I had never heard of a Ferrari corker, and that my search engine only showed limited information, main difference i could find between a Italian floor corker and the Ferrari floor corked and the only difference i could see was chrome plated jaws for Ferrari corker, and was trying to ask if a Ferrari owner owner knew of any other difference,,,
Dawg


Rembee said:


> I've been using Nomacorc #9x1.5 for a few years now with a Portuguese floor corker that I bought from E.C. Kraus back in 2004. I have not had any problems with any corks or this floor corker. There is a lot of mention about the Italian floor corker but has anyone had problems with a Portuguese corker?


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## Rembee (Jan 14, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> not that i know of, and your statement has zero to do with my question, I stated that before yesterday I had never heard of a Ferrari corker, and that my search engine only showed limited information, main difference i could find between a Italian floor corker and the Ferrari floor corked and the only difference i could see was chrome plated jaws for Ferrari corker, and was trying to ask if a Ferrari owner owner knew of any other difference,,,
> Dawg


I was not trying to answer your question Dawg! I was merely asking if anyone had any like problems with a Portuguese floor corker with cork grooving problems!

Rembee


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## hounddawg (Jan 14, 2021)

i h


Rembee said:


> I was not trying to answer your question Dawg! I was merely asking if anyone had any like problems with a Portuguese floor corker with cork grooving problems!
> 
> Rembee


Have never heard of a problem with the Portuguese floor corker, as far as i know the only difference is cast vinyl jaws, which i hear is a top of the line product, and the Italian which has brass jaws, sorry i miss read your post, I ,,,till yesterday had never heard of a Ferrari corker with chrome plated jaws, the way i interpreted them was they are mainly for Champlain, but i do live in the backwoods and hear we'll be getting running water in just a few more years,,, LOL
Dawg


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## Rembee (Jan 14, 2021)

No worries Dawg. I like you... live out in the back woods too lol


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 14, 2021)

Wine Lab said:


> , i.e. putting a crease in synthetic corks that causes the bottled to leak if you put them on their side.


I had EXACTLY this same problem with an Italian floor corker and synthetic corks. Solved it by going back to micro agglomerated corks. 

It taught me that the synthetic corks are not as robust at bouncing back from compression and made me question their long term effectiveness.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 14, 2021)

Just went on Amazon to look for small count packs of Normacorcs but it doesn't tell you which ones you are getting. If you want to make sure you get Reserva, 900s or the Greens line you have to buy 1000.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 14, 2021)

jgmillr1 said:


> It taught me that the synthetic corks are not as robust at bouncing back from compression and made me question their long term effectiveness.


The photo I posted on the last page of this thread tends to confirm the lack of "springiness".

However -- so far the Nomacorcs are doing fine. The company has been producing corks since 1999 and is used by a lot of commercial wineries, so my concern is lessened.



mainshipfred said:


> Just went on Amazon to look for small count packs of Normacorcs but it doesn't tell you which ones you are getting. If you want to make sure you get Reserva, 900s or the Greens line you have to buy 1000.


I purchased 100 count bags of Nomacorcs from Midwest Supply via Amazon. In November 2020 I contacted Midwest, asking what grade the corks are, and received a quick reply that said they are Nomacorc Select 900s. This was discussed in November in this thread:






Nomacorc 1 1/2 vs 1 3/4


Other than a quarter of an inch what is the difference between the Nomacorc 1 1/2" and 1 3/4". I am looking for something that will store my wine 10 years.




www.winemakingtalk.com





I checked the Nomacorc site and found the data sheet on the Select Green corks, which lists models 100, 300, and 500 which are good for 15, 10, and 8 years respectively.



https://corksupply.com/assets/Uploads/Nomacorc-SelectGreen-sellsheet-EN-US-Mid.pdf



As I reported in the previous thread, the Select 900 series is supposed to replace the Classic series, which is good up to 5 years.



https://corksupply.com/assets/Uploads/SellSheet-Nomacorc-ClassicGreen-LOW-OTR-ENUS.pdf



Most vendors on Amazon appear to sell the #9 x 1.5" 900 series. I suspect that for most people, a 5+ year lifespan is sufficient. Most of the wine I make will be consumed by the 5 year mark. If I notice the corks or wine degrading, I'll recork whatever is left.

For legal reasons, Nomacorc probably under-reports the lifespan of their corks, so I expect the 900's will satisfy my needs.

BTW -- I never received a reply from Nomacorc when I contacted them in November. Not that I expected a reply.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 14, 2021)

I just _had _to make one more search, which proved very fruitful. Cork Supply doesn't own Nomacorc, they're business partners, and Nomacorc is no longer a stand-alone company, it's part of VinVentions, and the Nomacorc product is one of many products they produce. My guess is the Cork Supply and Nomacorc sites are not supported or updated, but the VinVentions site is.View attachment 70467







Nomacorc - PlantCorc


Vinvention's Nomacorc Green Line is a plant-based wine closure derived from sustainable, renewable sugarcane-based raw materials. Learn more.




us.vinventions.com





Click the *Try It* button to get their configurator, which walks through the customer needs to identify what product fit those needs. Oddly enough, the Select 900 is in the Traditional line, NOT the Select line. The information presented during the selection of the cork matches the previously posted information -- the cork is rated for up to 5 years.

For fun, I uploaded my grape warrior avatar to see what it would look like. I actually like it!

The next step is to click *Contact Us* for prices .... which I'm sure will make my heart skip -- not the per-cork price, but the minimum quantity! 

EDIT: I tried clicking Contact Us -- a form was displayed asking person name, winery name, # cases produced per year. I didn't continue as an answer of "30 cases" probably would not impress them ....  

But if the price wasn't too bad, I'd order 1,000. It would take a few years to use 'em, but that's ok!


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## hounddawg (Jan 14, 2021)

I just went back to my list on my Amazon account, it says Reserva wine closure 47 x 23.5 for wines up to 25 years, 1000 lot $295
i'm going to look at where i order my select 900 selects at
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jan 14, 2021)

hum now all my select 900's just says for wines over 2 years, but i got some 6 year old put back with both Flor and nomacroc 900 select, laying side by side I open one of each , each year, both still the same as far as i can tell
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jan 14, 2021)

jgmillr1 said:


> I had EXACTLY this same problem with an Italian floor corker and synthetic corks. Solved it by going back to micro agglomerated corks.
> 
> It taught me that the synthetic corks are not as robust at bouncing back from compression and made me question their long term effectiveness.


what brand of synthetic corks did you use?
Dawg


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## jgmillr1 (Jan 17, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> what brand of synthetic corks did you use?
> Dawg


I looked back through my email and order history and found that they were Nomacorc Select. I had this issue in around 2014, so it's been a while.


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## Etxcav8 (Jan 17, 2021)

I have been using a Portuguese floor corker for several years and I’m into my second 1000 batch of nomacorc corks and never had a bottle leak until recently. I had two leaking bottles, pulled the corks and found the crease in the side of the cork as you mentioned. I activated the lever several times without a bottle or cork and found that one of the cork compressors was not returning to it’s rest position. I took it apart, cleaned the rust and dried sodium metabisulpfate, put back together and works like new again. FWIW
Ed T.


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## Wine Lab (Jan 19, 2021)

Thanks for all the responses. I noticed when you go to buy the 1000 pack of Normacorc 900 Selects on Amazon.ca, the supplier, Midwest Supplies, notes that "Note: We recommend using the Gilda Single lever corker with these corks because while some Portuguese or Italian floor corkers may work without problems, there is also a chance that the cork will be scored as it is inserted into the bottle, causing leaks". That seems to be the consensus of this forum too, and that is most people have used their Portuguese or Italian or Ferrari floor corkers with brass, chrome or thermoplastic jaws using synthetic corks for years and have had no problems, but there were some that definitely had problems with creasing using synthetic corks and the reason why is not that clear. 

Has anyone had any experience with these Chinese made stainless bench corkers available on Amazon, pic below, and if so, have you used synthetic corks with them? These do not have a compressible 4 jaw sliding iris system like most floor corkers but rather just a simple Stainless or POM guide in which you put the cork into and a handle with a plunger forces the cork through the guide into the bottle. On the surface, it would seem less likely to mark or damage the cork during compression, but I have no idea if they work well and work well with synthetic corks. Any thoughts on this corker would be appreciated.


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## bstnh1 (Jan 19, 2021)

I have no idea how well these work. But it looks like using this would be a slow, cumbersome operation.


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## hounddawg (Jan 19, 2021)

it looks like it'd wear your arm out,,,
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Jan 19, 2021)

I looked at the pictures of the Chinese corker on Amazon. It appears to work like a double-lever corker, using a compression cone that rests on the bottle. The plunger forces the cork through the cone, compressing it smaller than the inside diameter of the bottle neck.

Personally, I'd not buy one. First, my confidence in any hardware coming out of China is very low, due to experiences with very shoddy materials and workmanship. Beyond that, I don't expect it to work any better than a double-level corker and it's ~4 times the price. YMMV


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## mainshipfred (Jan 20, 2021)

As much as I want to use Normacorcs there is just too much conflict in information. I'll probably buy a small quantity but for my bulk purchase probably going to stick with natural.


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## Ted Brumleve (Jan 20, 2021)

After reading the history of Nomacork, I switched to agglomerated natural corks and have not had any issues, but I'm not a power user...


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## Wine Lab (Jan 20, 2021)

After contacting one of the sellers on Amazon of the Chinese stainless steel bench corker, they told me there were not designed for use with synthetic corks, only wood corks, so that is end of that. I can see that trying to push a synthetic cork through a tapered metal guide or tube with a 12 inch handle just is not going to work. So the Chinese bench plunger corker is off the list of possibilities for Normacorcs.

Yes, I agree, Ted, it is not so much a matter of misinformation out there but conflicting information with Normacorcs and brass or chrome jawed floor corkers that can drive you crazy in trying to decide what to buy. Most of the corker reviews do not specify what type of cork they are using. Some of the reviews state they have no problem with the Normacorcs and others report that they do make a crease. They are talking about the identical floor corker in a brand new off the shelf state. How is that possible? May-be there is a difference in the kind or brand of synthetic cork they are using, may-be some are more prone to creasing than others, no idea. 

Suppliers like Mid West and Northern Brewing seem to be consistent in warning about the Italian corkers with brass or chrome and the possibility of creasing, and appear to recommend using a Portuguese type with plastic jaws with Normacorcs. One supplier in Canada told me today to just use a food grade lubricant, like Petrol-Jel, on the brass jaws and you will never get a crease in the cork. Seems to make sense too. I guess.


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## stickman (Jan 20, 2021)

The Vinventions site indicates the Select 900 as hand corker friendly, maybe they have a more durable skin. I'm just speculating, but I think there is a fair amount of variation in the production of the hand corkers, it's not a high precision product, they generally work well for the intended purpose, but some of the units may need fine tuning, de-burring etc.


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## bstnh1 (Jan 21, 2021)

Wine Lab said:


> After contacting one of the sellers on Amazon of the Chinese stainless steel bench corker, they told me there were not designed for use with synthetic corks, only wood corks, so that is end of that. I can see that trying to push a synthetic cork through a tapered metal guide or tube with a 12 inch handle just is not going to work. So the Chinese bench plunger corker is off the list of possibilities for Normacorcs.
> 
> Yes, I agree, Ted, it is not so much a matter of misinformation out there but conflicting information with Normacorcs and brass or chrome jawed floor corkers that can drive you crazy in trying to decide what to buy. Most of the corker reviews do not specify what type of cork they are using. Some of the reviews state they have no problem with the Normacorcs and others report that they do make a crease. They are talking about the identical floor corker in a brand new off the shelf state. How is that possible? May-be there is a difference in the kind or brand of synthetic cork they are using, may-be some are more prone to creasing than others, no idea.
> 
> Suppliers like Mid West and Northern Brewing seem to be consistent in warning about the Italian corkers with brass or chrome and the possibility of creasing, and appear to recommend using a Portuguese type with plastic jaws with Normacorcs. One supplier in Canada told me today to just use a food grade lubricant, like Petrol-Jel, on the brass jaws and you will never get a crease in the cork. Seems to make sense too. I guess.


*
Food grade silicone is available as a paste in a tube as well as as an aerosol. I use an aerosol on the jaws of my Portuguese floor corker and have not had any issues.*


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## BMarNJ (Jan 22, 2021)

Etxcav8 said:


> I have been using a Portuguese floor corker for several years and I’m into my second 1000 batch of nomacorc corks and never had a bottle leak until recently. I had two leaking bottles, pulled the corks and found the crease in the side of the cork as you mentioned. I activated the lever several times without a bottle or cork and found that one of the cork compressors was not returning to it’s rest position. I took it apart, cleaned the rust and dried sodium metabisulpfate, put back together and works like new again. FWIW
> Ed T.


I was moving some bottles with synthetic corks around yesterday and found 2 that looked like they had a little bleed-through at the top of the cork. They had been on their side for almost 2 years. I pulled one and the crease was quite pronounced. My portugese corker looks OK, and many other bottles looked fine. I guess I will keep an eye out as I use up my current stock of corks and use any others like it as an early drinker. On the plus side, this wine had a lot of CO2 and this bottle did not have that problem.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 22, 2021)

stickman said:


> The Vinventions site indicates the Select 900 as hand corker friendly, maybe they have a more durable skin.


IIRC, the diameter of the 900 series is a bit narrower than the ones rated for longer lifespan. If that is correct, it makes sense that the 900's are more hand corker friendly.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 25, 2021)

I just spoke to Scott Labs and Lafatite about the aging capabilities of their natural corks and got the same answer from both. I spoke to them because they are the only 2 places I know of that would be a reliable source of information. The response was 6-8 years and 5-7 years respectively no matter what the grade was and the only difference in the grading is the appearance. Now I don't know if there is any truth in what they said but to get the same answer from 2 reliable sources leads me to believe what they say. Although in my mind I would think the higher grade would allow the wine to age longer. But why would they say this, in a way it's telling me to buy the lower grade.


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## hounddawg (Jan 25, 2021)

Flor corks is the highest graded naturel cork, they are the longest shelf/closure cork harvested,, nomacrock reserva is rated for the longest syndetic cork, that i know of, I have and still do some Flor corks for any 10 year plus bottle, as soon as my nomacroc select 900's are gone ( 500 left ), I'll be using nomacroc reservra 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jan 25, 2021)

oh and the graded system is by micro oxygen getting in,,,
Dawg


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## wineh (Jan 25, 2021)

I bit the bullet and bought the Italian floor corker with shiny Jaws. Bottled a batch on Saturday, so far so good. The horizontal test will be tomorrow.


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## hounddawg (Jan 25, 2021)

wineh said:


> I bit the bullet and bought the Italian floor corker with shiny Jaws. Bottled a batch on Saturday, so far so good. The horizontal test will be tomorrow.


I've run my Italian floor corker for a few years now, only problem, I've ever had with it was,, I wasn't watching what i was doing when i was checking airlocks on my bulk aging and tripped over mine,, 
Dawg


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## wineh (Jan 25, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> I've run my Italian floor corker for a few years now, only problem, I've ever had with it was,, I wasn't watching what i was doing when i was checking airlocks on my bulk aging and tripped over mine,,
> Dawg


LOL. It definitely has a bigger footprint than my old corker!


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## hounddawg (Jan 25, 2021)

wineh said:


> LOL. It definitely has a bigger footprint than my old corker!


yep, but you got you a very good corker, that you'll enjoy for years to come,,,, knock on wood ,,
Dawg


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## wineh (Sep 11, 2021)

wineh said:


> Well I've done 2 more things. I have some natural corks left so I Bottled a batch using half corks, half synthetics. I'll let you know in a year if there's a significant difference. I also asked for clarification from RJS. I'll see if I can source some nomacorcs in my location.


So that was just over a year ago, and I came upon a case of that wine. The other day, I opened one of each and poured 2 glasses for comparison. 
I noted that the aromas and tastes were slightly different from each other, but both were fine and had clearly aged appropriately. 
My wife on the other hand, who has a better nose and palate than I, said they were like night and day and pointed to the one that she liked better. It was the one that had the synthetic cork in it. 
So, the experiment continues, but I no longer fear the synthetic! 
Cheers!


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## bstnh1 (Sep 11, 2021)

wineh said:


> So that was just over a year ago, and I came upon a case of that wine. The other day, I opened one of each and poured 2 glasses for comparison.
> I noted that the aromas and tastes were slightly different from each other, but both were fine and had clearly aged appropriately.
> My wife on the other hand, who has a better nose and palate than I, said they were like night and day and pointed to the one that she liked better. It was the one that had the synthetic cork in it.
> So, the experiment continues, but I no longer fear the synthetic!
> Cheers!


So why does she like the synthetic better? What did she see as the difference?


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## winemaker81 (Sep 11, 2021)

wineh said:


> My wife on the other hand, who has a better nose and palate than I


Yup. I trust my wife's nose more than my own. Like @bstnh1, I'm interested in detailed feedback.


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## Rice_Guy (Sep 11, 2021)

The general comment from the synthetic cork supplier is that his corks retain fruity aromas better.


bstnh1 said:


> So why does she like the synthetic better? What did she see as the difference?





Rice_Guy said:


> _The purpose for putting this video in was the question, *Why should I care about bottle oxidation*? _ The video is a t_asting session with a white and a red wine against Nomacorc 100 & 500 & a competitor with different oxygen addition rates. Oxidative Nomacorc (and natural cork) produces fruity where as low transmission cork created flinty flavor_; 21 minutes
> _ * Taste The Difference - Wines under different oxygen levels by Dr. Maurizio Ugliano of Nomacorc, 2013_



_there are more vendor presentations about oxidation and reduction in the thread “industrial course”._


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## MiBor (Sep 11, 2021)

SpoiledRotten said:


> Synthetic corks will give you trouble with extended aging. They really like to bond to the bottle. As me how I know.



So, how do you know, SpoiledRotten?

I used the Select900 for some of my wines for a few vintages now. The few bottles that I found to have the Nomacorcs somewhat stuck and hard to remove were part of a batch that I used some thick vinyl shrink capsules on. They required extra heating for shrinking and I believe the necks of those bottles got overheated and the heat was transferred to the corks and partially melted the outer shiny coating on the Nomacorcs. I think Spoiled is trying to warn us that this could happen and I think it's worth being mindful of how much heat we use if we apply shrink capsules on "Noma-corked" bottles, especially if using a heat gun for the shrinking process.


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## hounddawg (Sep 12, 2021)

MiBor said:


> So, how do you know, SpoiledRotten?
> 
> I used the Select900 for some of my wines for a few vintages now. The few bottles that I found to have the Nomacorcs somewhat stuck and hard to remove were part of a batch that I used some thick vinyl shrink capsules on. They required extra heating for shrinking and I believe the necks of those bottles got overheated and the heat was transferred to the corks and partially melted the outer shiny coating on the Nomacorcs. I think Spoiled is trying to warn us that this could happen and I think it's worth being mindful of how much heat we use if we apply shrink capsules on "Noma-corked" bottles, especially if using a heat gun for the shrinking process.


i use a heat gun on my nomacroc select 9's just hold gun back a little futher from the bottle, i have used a heat gun from the begainif,ng with no problems from my nomacroc's secelect 9's ,, for a few years i used FLOR Corks on everything i crafted, it is lke work, if you're going to do somthing give it your best shot , even now some of the high dallor wines have gone to nomacroc, some not all, i ihave tried others that used select 9 nomacroc's up to 19 years, even though they are rated for about half that long. I've not bought a croc in almost 3 years now,, but still have about 500 t0 600 select 9's to go' at which i plan to upgrade to nomacroc's best, which is rated for 25 years, on from skeeter pee port to my best wines i give my all, including the croc and packagibng , i got skeeter pee aging for close to 2 years now , but it is 1 quart lemom juice to gallon of water, yeah i knw it was designed as a quick wine, yet i only gotta suit myself,, OR AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD MANY TIMES ON HERE, sane for my dragon blood, i use 3 kinds of berries but at least 3 times the amount the berris as they recomend, I SUIT MYSELF, AS SHOULD EVERY ONE,,, Amazon has the top of the line noma crocs at $300 per #1000,,, those that make top shelf tradishonl grape wines, i am fine with,, theY suit there sleves, just like i suit my self, WHAT EVER ONE MAKES IS PERFET AS LONG AS THE ARE HAPPY,, it bother me the people that guzzle my hard loved wines, hence skeeter pess, for the and for my sleep, 
Dawg


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## wineh (Sep 12, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> So why does she like the synthetic better? What did she see as the difference?


She felt that the wine under the synthetic was more "shiraz like" while the other she felt was "plummy ' like a merlot. I didn't get it, but I let her have the bottle she preferred. Lol


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## hounddawg (Sep 12, 2021)

wineh said:


> She felt that the wine under the synthetic was more "shiraz like" while the other she felt was "plummy ' like a merlot. I didn't get it, but I let her have the bottle she preferred. Lol


whew good choise,,, i guess you are smarter then you look..... lol
Dawg


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## wineh (Sep 24, 2021)

wineh said:


> So that was just over a year ago, and I came upon a case of that wine. The other day, I opened one of each and poured 2 glasses for comparison.
> I noted that the aromas and tastes were slightly different from each other, but both were fine and had clearly aged appropriately.
> My wife on the other hand, who has a better nose and palate than I, said they were like night and day and pointed to the one that she liked better. It was the one that had the synthetic cork in it.
> So, the experiment continues, but I no longer fear the synthetic!
> Cheers!


So, every fall I hide away a case of assorted wines that I have made/bought in the last year. The case I hid this fall will be retrieved in July of 2023. I put a pair of cork/synthetic shiraz in that box. I will try remember this thread then. Cheers!


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## Monty Knapp (Oct 6, 2021)

I use them.
Lately, I've started bottling half a batch of wine with the regular corks, but the other half with synthetic corks - which have a longer life span.
I put different colored capsules on them then tell them apart - and drink the ones with the regular corks first.
Then, if any last until the 4 or 5 year point, they have a cork that is still good at that point.


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## szap (Oct 6, 2021)

SpoiledRotten said:


> Synthetic corks will give you trouble with extended aging. They really like to bond to the bottle. As me how I know.


I know exactly what you mean! Almost impossible to remove them with a cork screw.


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## MiBor (Oct 11, 2021)

In light of my recent experiences with Nomacorcs, I'm afraid I have to stop using them altogether and can no longer recommend them to anyone. Here is what happened:
I bottled a batch of Sauvignon Blanc in early September using the Noma 900s and thin vinyl shrink capsules. Over the weekend I had some guests who wanted to taste it and I put a couple of bottles in the freezer for half hour, than moved them to the fridge for another half hour. When the time came to open them, the Nomacorcs in both of them started spinning with the corkscrew and I couldn't open them. I had to improvise something to keep them from spinning so I could get the corkscrew inserted in those corks and remove them. Than I tried opening another bottle of the same wine at room temperature and the cork in that one was not spinning at all. That tells me that Nomacorcs can't accommodate chilling of the wine bottles they are used on. 
Also over the weekend I had a friend tell me that he couldn't open a bottle of red wine I gave him and he had to drill out the cork. That got me worried and when I got home I tried opening another bottle from the same batch. To my surprise, the Nomacorc was stuck and I couldn't get it open. That must have been the result of heating the metalized shrink capsules that I put on, because another bottle without the capsule opened just fine. 
After these experiences I'm totally done with Nomacorcs and will never use them again. I'll take the risk of having a few bottles with cork taint and Use Aglica or some other natural corks from now on. As much as I didn't want to believe it, @SpoiledRotten was right. Maybe not all Nomacorc closures have these problems or maybe the fact that they are a year old had something to do with it, but I'm really done with this brand and I don't recommend anyone use them again, unless you don't plan on chilling your wine or using shrink capsules on your bottles.


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## wineh (Oct 11, 2021)

MiBor said:


> SER=19924]@SpoiledRotten[/USER] was right. Maybe not all Nomacorc closures have these problems or maybe the fact that they are a year old had something to do with it, but I'm really done with this brand and I don't recommend anyone use them again, unless you don't plan on chilling your wine or using shrink capsules on your bottles.


I haven't been using them as long as you, but I have minor concerns. I had one stuck hard enough that I chipped the bottle with my bartender's corkscrew and had to dispose of it. (one of about 150) I don't use shrinkwraps. Wine does age differently under them than cork, but I don't think that's an issue. Occasionally, I don't get to the bottom of a bottle and have to reuse the cork. The synthetics don't like that. 
My biggest problem has been trying to source long natural corks. I recently tried semi-synthetic aglomerated corks, and early results are promising.


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## CDrew (Oct 11, 2021)

MiBor said:


> In light of my recent experiences with Nomacorcs, I'm afraid I have to stop using them altogether and can no longer recommend them to anyone. Here is what happened:
> I bottled a batch of Sauvignon Blanc in early September using the Noma 900s and thin vinyl shrink capsules. Over the weekend I had some guests who wanted to taste it and I put a couple of bottles in the freezer for half hour, than moved them to the fridge for another half hour. When the time came to open them, the Nomacorcs in both of them started spinning with the corkscrew and I couldn't open them. I had to improvise something to keep them from spinning so I could get the corkscrew inserted in those corks and remove them. Than I tried opening another bottle of the same wine at room temperature and the cork in that one was not spinning at all. That tells me that Nomacorcs can't accommodate chilling of the wine bottles they are used on.
> Also over the weekend I had a friend tell me that he couldn't open a bottle of red wine I gave him and he had to drill out the cork. That got me worried and when I got home I tried opening another bottle from the same batch. To my surprise, the Nomacorc was stuck and I couldn't get it open. That must have been the result of heating the metalized shrink capsules that I put on, because another bottle without the capsule opened just fine.
> After these experiences I'm totally done with Nomacorcs and will never use them again. I'll take the risk of having a few bottles with cork taint and Use Aglica or some other natural corks from now on. As much as I didn't want to believe it, @SpoiledRotten was right. Maybe not all Nomacorc closures have these problems or maybe the fact that they are a year old had something to do with it, but I'm really done with this brand and I don't recommend anyone use them again, unless you don't plan on chilling your wine or using shrink capsules on your bottles.




No disrespect, but this is not my experience. I literally have in my hand right now a white wine bottled with normacorcs that was chilled for several days before we opened tonight. We used a typical corkscrew (An Italian made Boomerang) and no spinning or difficulties opening. Maybe it is your method of installation that is the problem? Maybe the heating step is a bad idea? Although, I've used heat shrink and normacorcs before too with no problems. Many, many commercial operations use Normacorcs with no issues. I've used with favorable results for 5 years and have never experienced your issue. I'd look at your process. Do you wet them, heat them or in some other way alter the way they work?


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## MiBor (Oct 11, 2021)

CDrew said:


> I'd look at your process. Do you wet them, heat them or in some other way alter the way they work?


They went straight from the bag into the bottles using a Portuguese floor corker with plastic jaws. I even dried the inside of the bottle necks before inserting the corks. The only thing that could maybe explain these failures is that the Nomacorcs were bought last year, but the bag (L.D.Carlson 100 pcs.) was unopened until I used them this year. I understand that some people have had a good experience with these bottle closures and so did I for the most part, but for me to have these problems all of a sudden is a sign that it is time to ditch the brand and try something different that would accommodate all my needs in a wine cork. I bottle red and white wine. The white wine gets chilled before opening, the red doesn't. I also use different types of shrink capsules on all my bottles and I want a good bottle closure that will perform well under all circumstances, without getting fused to the bottle or loose to the point of spinning inside when trying to remove it with a cork screw.


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 12, 2021)

_that makes a lot of sense don’t freeze and don’t expose to lots of heat, ,,,,, _The nomacorc is a foamed plastic material which will have a defined softening point where it takes on a new shape and will also become more rigid/ brittle as it is cooled/ frozen,


MiBor said:


> In light of my recent experiences with Nomacorcs, I'm afraid I have to stop using them altogether and can no longer recommend them to anyone. Here is what happened:
> . . . That must have been the result of heating the metalized shrink capsules that I put on, because another bottle without the capsule opened just fine.
> After these experiences I'm totally done with Nomacorcs and will never use them again. . .
> Maybe not all Nomacorc closures have these problems or maybe the fact that they are a year old had something to do with it, but I'm really done with this brand and I don't recommend anyone use them again, unless you don't plan on chilling your wine or using shrink capsules on your bottles. . . .


There is quite a dit of technology in them. Overall the plastic is better oxygen barrier than natural cork, the surface has been melted for a smooth skin, ,,,, and the skin of different grades of the synthetic cork have been electrically etched to create micro tracks which will leak a few mg. of air per year so they copy what a natural cork does.


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## winemaker81 (Oct 12, 2021)

@MiBor, I've been using Nomacorcs for nearly 4 years and have no problems with extraction. Of ~800 bottles so far, I've had 2 leak, just a few drops. It's possible you got a bad batch.

EDIT: I shrink capsules with a blowdryer, which didn't have any effect upon the corks.


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## vacuumpumpman (Oct 12, 2021)

I've been using Nomacorcs for nearly 12 years. I purchase them in the 1000 pcs and go thru them every2-3 years. No issues with these as I leave alot of my bottles upright (due to storage issues) The only issue I had was a plastic jaw leaving a crease in the cork - replaced the corker and everything has been great since. I do use a heat gun for either wax or foil tops. 

I am curious if all the wine bottles don't fluctuate a bit when for the inside neck diameter ? That might be a good explanation ?


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## CDrew (Oct 12, 2021)

What sort of corkscrew was used with the problem corks? Those cheap ones with the arms do take more screw pressure to insert.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 12, 2021)

yes, the necks of wine bottles do fluctuate somewhat. I convinced myself of this with several different wine bottles mostly from Costco wine. Some of them, the corks went in just fine, others slipped in much to easily, while others I was unable to get the cork to fully seat with some always sticking out of the top.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Oct 21, 2021)

I don’t use synthetic corks after having issues with them impacting taste of wines and just being unreliable and leaking and I just feel that cork is superior and also much more environmentally friendly.


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## rustbucket (Oct 23, 2021)

wineh said:


> I recently tried semi-synthetic aglomerated corks, and early results are promising.



I've been using agglomerated corks for the past three years and have been very happy with them. @wineh , I'm not sure if the semi-synthetic agglomerated corks you spoke of are a different product or if you're referring to the water-based coating of cork extract used in the making of Acquamark agglomerated corks.


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## wineh (Oct 23, 2021)

rustbucket said:


> I've been using agglomerated corks for the past three years and have been very happy with them. @wineh , I'm not sure if the semi-synthetic agglomerated corks you spoke of are a different product or if you're referring to the water-based coating of cork extract used in the making of Acquamark agglomerated corks.


I'm not sure. The ones I tried look and feel slightly different than regular aglomerated corks. I do believe that I have seen them in commercial wines. Next time I pull one out, I'll post an image here.


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## bstnh1 (Oct 23, 2021)

MiBor said:


> They went straight from the bag into the bottles using a Portuguese floor corker with plastic jaws. I even dried the inside of the bottle necks before inserting the corks. The only thing that could maybe explain these failures is that the Nomacorcs were bought last year, but the bag (L.D.Carlson 100 pcs.) was unopened until I used them this year. I understand that some people have had a good experience with these bottle closures and so did I for the most part, but for me to have these problems all of a sudden is a sign that it is time to ditch the brand and try something different that would accommodate all my needs in a wine cork. I bottle red and white wine. The white wine gets chilled before opening, the red doesn't. I also use different types of shrink capsules on all my bottles and I want a good bottle closure that will perform well under all circumstances, without getting fused to the bottle or loose to the point of spinning inside when trying to remove it with a cork screw.


I no longer use capsules, but I have used Nomacorc with a Portuguese floor corker for the past few years with no issues whether the wine is chilled or not.


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## hounddawg (Oct 23, 2021)

i have a few bags of nomacroc corks that are a few years old , with out problems, i got around 500 more before i buy again,,,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Oct 23, 2021)

CDrew said:


> What sort of corkscrew was used with the problem corks? Those cheap ones with the arms do take more screw pressure to insert.


the bat wings ones with the screw that looks like a auger are worthless, at least to me, but the bat winged ones that has the curled wire i've never had a problem with,,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Oct 23, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> @MiBor, I've been using Nomacorcs for nearly 4 years and have no problems with extraction. Of ~800 bottles so far, I've had 2 leak, just a few drops. It's possible you got a bad batch.
> 
> EDIT: I shrink capsules with a blowdryer, which didn't have any effect upon the corks.


yup that's just about like i do, i use a heat gun that looks like a hairdryer. at one time i used it to make laminate turn loose,,
Dawg


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## David Violante (Nov 23, 2021)

I just listened to an Inside Winemaking podcast by Jim Duane with Francois Margot and DIAM Cork Closures. Very fascinating research and information about the cork harvesting and closure manufacturing process, and what the company is doing to create consistent cork closures. By consistent they mean specific oxygenation and pressure over a specified timeframe.

They have different cork types based on what the user wants… tighter closures with less oxygenation for wines meant to sit for 20 years versus closures that allow for more oxygenation in wines meant to be opened after a year or so. They use a fascinating process of granulating cork, scrubbing it with CO2 in a hyper state, and molding it with a binder and expander to achieve consistent size, permeability, and bottle pressure. 

I just thought it was very interesting. Has anyone ever tried these? 

Here’s the link to the podcast episode in Spotify: 
*https://open.spotify.com/episode/52LvZqAtKHo8foMn3mvbJI?si=ba-OthRbRDyEnmXAFMj9CQ*

Here’s the link to the company:
*https://www.diam-closures.com/manufacturer-of-wine-champagne-cork-closures*


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## hounddawg (Nov 23, 2021)

David Violante said:


> I just listened to an Inside Winemaking podcast by Jim Duane with Francois Margot and DIAM Cork Closures. Very fascinating research and information about the cork harvesting and closure manufacturing process, and what the company is doing to create consistent cork closures. By consistent they mean specific oxygenation and pressure over a specified timeframe.
> 
> They have different cork types based on what the user wants… tighter closures with less oxygenation for wines meant to sit for 20 years versus closures that allow for more oxygenation in wines meant to be opened after a year or so. They use a fascinating process of granulating cork, scrubbing it with CO2 in a hyper state, and molding it with a binder and expander to achieve consistent size, permeability, and bottle pressure.
> 
> ...


i uset to use only Flor corks for everything, then came, need space, so i went to nomacro select 900, bout 9 year and noacroc Reserve i forget around 25 years or better, dog gone elderberry, lol
Dawg


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## Cap Puncher (Nov 24, 2021)

I really like using Nomacorcs. I have no control on humidity in my cellar and natural corks tend to dry out. Also, it’s nice being able to store upright.

I have been using the 900s, Classic Greens, Select Green 300 (10 yr aging) &100 (15 yr aging), and the Reserva (25yr aging). I just wanted to note that only the select 900s are made to be able to use a floor corker. I do use a floor corker on the others however, you need to modify you corking technique, otherwise the skin will get a fold or score line. The way I get around this issue is by priming the corks with a slight squeeze in the corker jaws. I do this 4-5 times doing a quarter turn after each. After using this technique, I’ve never had an issue with scoring the thicker/denser nomacorcs(especially the Green select 100,300 and Reserva).

It’s hard to find anything other than the 900s for home winemakers (due the the floor corker issue). I found on Crush2Cellar, Nomacorc Green Select 300s in 100 quantity bags.

One last note, the select 100,300 and Reserva, are a bit more difficult to take out with an average corkscrew. It’s not the heating of the capsule issue but they are so dense it creates a tighter seal. I’ve chipped tops of wine bottles trying to get Reserva out with just a cheap server corkscrews.


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## CDrew (Nov 24, 2021)

Cap Puncher said:


> I really like using Nomacorcs. I have no control on humidity in my cellar and natural corks tend to dry out. Also, it’s nice being able to store upright.
> 
> I have been using the 900s, Classic Greens, Select Green 300 (10 yr aging) &100 (15 yr aging), and the Reserva (25yr aging). I just wanted to note that only the select 900s are made to be able to use a floor corker. I do use a floor corker on the others however, you need to modify you corking technique, otherwise the skin will get a fold or score line. The way I get around this issue is by priming the corks with a slight squeeze in the corker jaws. I do this 4-5 times doing a quarter turn after each. After using this technique, I’ve never had an issue with scoring the thicker/denser nomacorcs(especially the Green select 100,300 and Reserva).
> 
> ...



Interesting comment. I use the Select Green 300s and a Ferrari floor corker. It does leave a slight mark on the corks, but I've not had a leak. I've never used the "Reserva" version. But I'm very pleased with the Normacorcs overall. And sampling a 2019 Tempranillo bottled with a Normacorc that is quite nice. I am considering going back to the 900's just because that's the Normacorc recommendation for home winemakers. I have no pretense that I'll be drinking my wine 25 years from now. A solid 15 would be OK. But for sure, the 900s would be fine for white wines that you drink in a year or two.


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## winemaker81 (Nov 27, 2021)

The 900's are rated for 5 years, so my guess is that realistically we can reasonably count on 7 years. This is sufficient for my purposes.


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## winemanden (Nov 27, 2021)

SpoiledRotten said:


> Synthetic corks will give you trouble with extended aging. They really like to bond to the bottle. As me how I know.


You're right! I've buggered up three corkscrews trying to get the damned things out.


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## hounddawg (Nov 27, 2021)

winemanden said:


> You're right! I've buggered up three corkscrews trying to get the damned things out.


use a decent bat winged corkscrew
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Nov 27, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> The 900's are rated for 5 years, so my guess is that realistically we can reasonably count on 7 years. This is sufficient for my purposes.


all right @winemaker81 I do several long range wines for my wake, that being said if i had 1000 year corks I'd use them in hopes of living for another 999 years, can't blame me for hoping,,, lol
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Nov 27, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> use a decent bat winged corkscrew


While it could be the corkscrew, the different descriptions indicate the cause is more likely something else, such as a bad batch of corks or excessive heat. I use a simple waiter's corkscrew and have no problems uncorking Nomacorcs. I have had half a dozen instances of problems pulling synthetic corks from commercial wines, but these were orange tinged and didn't look like Nomacorcs.

One potential solution is to use a cork pull instead of a corkscrew.



hounddawg said:


> all right @winemaker81 I do several long range wines for my wake, that being said if i had 1000 year corks I'd use them in hopes of living for another 999 years, can't blame me for hoping,,, lol


That sounds like a good strategy, and on the plus side, if it fails -- you won't know the difference!


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## hounddawg (Nov 28, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> While it could be the corkscrew, the different descriptions indicate the cause is more likely something else, such as a bad batch of corks or excessive heat. I use a simple waiter's corkscrew and have no problems uncorking Nomacorcs. I have had half a dozen instances of problems pulling synthetic corks from commercial wines, but these were orange tinged and didn't look like Nomacorcs.
> 
> One potential solution is to use a cork pull instead of a corkscrew.
> 
> ...


you're as messed up as i am,,,lol
Dawg


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## Cap Puncher (Nov 28, 2021)

My favorite corkscrew video:


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