# For the experts "fusel" alcohol



## Sammyk (Jul 2, 2012)

What do the experts know about "fusel" alcohol? How likely is the wine to have off tastes?


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## Geronimo (Jul 2, 2012)

Fusel alcohol has more than 2 carbon atoms attached (ethanol has 2). It's thought to contribute to hangovers, and has been described to taste like kerosene. Typically, a warmer fermentation increases the production of fusels but lots of other things might cause fusels. Maintaining an optimal fermentation temp is the only way to control fusels in wine and beer. For clear liquors, the fusels are discarded as part of the "tails" of the distillation run. Certain whiskeys require some fusels as part of the flavor profile.


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## seth8530 (Jul 2, 2012)

Some one please fact check me on this one. But isnt ester production also temperature dependent?


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## Geronimo (Jul 3, 2012)

seth8530 said:


> Some one please fact check me on this one. But isnt ester production also temperature dependent?



Yes, and very dependent on the yeast strain as well. When a kit has a recommended temp, they are mainly targeting low fusels and an ester profile from the supplied yeast.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 3, 2012)

In the 80's we did see some fusels in red wine as a result using commercial yeasts and little or no nutrition with low LANC grapes. 
Malvina


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## Sammyk (Jul 3, 2012)

Did/does it effect the taste?


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 3, 2012)

Sammyk said:


> Did/does it effect the taste?


To me it is poorly made wine that is undrinkable. However based on some of the posters here they will drink anything. So your question is hard to answer. For example one fellow wanted to know if his batch was ruined because it smelled like nail polish. Seriously would you drink a wine that smelled like nail polish? 
Malvina


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## robie (Jul 3, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> To me it is poorly made wine that is undrinkable. However based on some of the posters here they will drink anything. So your question is hard to answer. For example one fellow wanted to know if his batch was ruined because it smelled like nail polish. Seriously would you drink a wine that smelled like nail polish?
> Malvina



Well, if a wine that smells like rotten eggs and (to the inexperienced) seemingly undrinkable can be "fixed", what is so bad about an inexperienced person asking if a wine that smells like nail polish might also be fixed? 

Key words here are "inexperienced person".


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## Sammyk (Jul 3, 2012)

It does not smell like nail polish or rotten eggs. It smells and tastes like young wine with a lot of alcohol, really no different then the many others I have made. ABV from SG and FG is 12%. Time will tell.


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## Deezil (Jul 3, 2012)

What causes the nail polish smells? Is that one of the fusels you're all conversing about?


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## seth8530 (Jul 3, 2012)

That could actually be acetone, a natural byproduct of alcoholic fermentation.


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## Runningwolf (Jul 3, 2012)

The following is not my words but what I found on Goggle;

That distinct smell of nail-polish remover is a sure indicator of excess volatile acidity (often abbreviated as simply VA). When detectable (as a sharp, acidic smell), VA is generally considered a winemaking flaw that can arise during fermentation or from a post-fermentation bacterial infection. Sensitivity to VA differs widely from individual to individual, and at lower levels, it can "lift" aromas and add a certain positive presence to the wine's flavors. It is not harmful, but whenever you find any such unpleasant chemical odors, whether nail polish, airplane glue or vinegar, dominating the scent and flavor of a particular wine, that wine should be avoided.


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## ibglowin (Jul 3, 2012)

Acetone butanol can be a byproduct of grain distillation but is not normally found as a byproduct in wine making.



seth8530 said:


> That could actually be acetone, a natural byproduct of alcoholic fermentation.


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## Sammyk (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks Mike. So what happens when the must gets to warm in fresh fruit then?


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## ibglowin (Jul 3, 2012)

I don't think it forms much (if any) fusel alcohol just like grape wine. You would have to distill a wine many times over and separate out the higher end fractions (tails) to concentrate enough fusel alcohol to worry about.


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## deboard (Jul 3, 2012)

here is a wikipedia article on fusel alcohol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusel_alcohol

Basically, it happens when you ferment under any of the following conditions:

1. at a high temp
2. at a low pH
3. When yeast is inhibited by nitrogen content. 

So try to avoid as many of these as possible, preferably all.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 3, 2012)

robie said:


> Well, if a wine that smells like rotten eggs and (to the inexperienced) seemingly undrinkable can be "fixed", what is so bad about an inexperienced person asking if a wine that smells like nail polish might also be fixed?
> 
> Key words here are "inexperienced person".


Well Robie that fellow never asked if it could be fixed he asked if he should drink it. Sadly it really can't be fixed.
Malvina


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## Sammyk (Jul 4, 2012)

No, did not ask if it was drinkable. It is still very young and as I said, it has the smell and taste of a very young wine


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 4, 2012)

Sammyk said:


> No, did not ask if it was drinkable. It is still very young and as I said, it has the smell and taste of a very young wine


I am sorry Sammy if I offended you and I read it wrong. When you say Nail polish bells go off in my brain! The point is that Ethyl Acetate is a terrible by product of serious VA. You might get a wiff at one point in the fermentation and it could disappear quickly. But a prolonged or finished wine with this type of VA means usually the wine is not drinkable. Not only is it bad for the wine but it will infect the barrel and that will be unusable with no chance of cleaning. Cleanliness, Nutrients and proper parameters for yeast during fermentation will usually avoid this problem. Since you have it you need to look into where the initial problem lies. 
Malvina


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## Sirs (Jul 4, 2012)

Sammy's main concern is will high temps during fermentation harm the wine(correct me if I'm wrong) he has heard high fermentation temps can cause "fusel alcohol". From talking with him it is my understanding he has a very active fermentation going and it has made the temp of the must go up a good bit. He was worried that the higher temp of the must may cause a problem with the "fusel alcohol". So far he hasn't got a problem he is just checking to see if it may in fact cause a problem. Sammy if I'm wrong please tell me so, I told him if he hadn't done anything to cause the high temps then in my opinion it should be fine and if he was worried he could cool it in some fashion (he mentioned possibly sitting the fermenter in a water bath with cool water), I said it may slow the fermentation but other than that shouldn't hurt anything. I told him I thought it would probably be fine as it is, the temps are getting high because the fermentation is so active.

That is my opinion of course I do things a bit different by using wild yeast.
Sammy if I am wrong or have told you wrong I'm sorry but that was my opinion on what you'd asked me earlier about this.


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## Sammyk (Jul 4, 2012)

Eddie you are correct. We racked again today to get more lees off and I wanted to see how the vanilla bean was coming along and I decided to leave the bean a little longer. I could smell and taste the vanilla. The last gallon going into the carboy was half full of lees. So I decide to rack them all. Most only had about 1/8 to 1/4 inch of lees. Fresh fruit equals lots of lees. 

The wine fine as near as I can tell. The one gallon I added a vanilla bean to had a really nice vanilla taste. I added vanilla beans to 2 of the other 5 gallons because we liked the taste. We could taste a little strawberry but mostly was an alcohol taste which is what I would expected at the 2nd racking. No off taste or smell what so ever. Added sorbate and kmeta today. Next week I will simmer down some strawberries I froze when I started the must. And then move it under the house to age.


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## Sammyk (Jul 4, 2012)

I saw some photo of strawberry wine that some one made and the color difference was huge after fining. Ours is a gorgeous strawberry red color I would like to keep it that color so I do not plan to fine unless absolutely have to.


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## seth8530 (Jul 5, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Acetone butanol can be a byproduct of grain distillation but is not normally found as a byproduct in wine making.



Eh, it was just a thought. I figured that it might of been detectable during one of the early faces.


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## Wade E (Jul 7, 2012)

You mentioned strawberry wine and colors and I can say that sulfite unfortunately can strip strawberry wine of a lot of color so make sure you dont over do it with sulfites. You can stay lower on the sulfites and use some acorbic acid along with the sulfites in an effort not to lose much color. Ascorbic acid doesnt last as long as a preservative though.


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## Sammyk (Jul 7, 2012)

Will lemon juice work in place of ascorbic acid? I am getting ready to simmered down frozen strawberries for an f-pak


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## beardy (Jul 30, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> The following is not my words but what I found on Goggle;
> 
> That distinct smell of nail-polish remover is a sure indicator of excess volatile acidity (often abbreviated as simply VA). When detectable (as a sharp, acidic smell), VA is generally considered a winemaking flaw that can arise during fermentation or from a post-fermentation bacterial infection. Sensitivity to VA differs widely from individual to individual, and at lower levels, it can "lift" aromas and add a certain positive presence to the wine's flavors. It is not harmful, but whenever you find any such unpleasant chemical odors, whether nail polish, airplane glue or vinegar, dominating the scent and flavor of a particular wine, that wine should be avoided.



Oy.... so I have my first (2 gallon) skeeter pee going and for the first 3 or 4 days it wasnt fermenting (OG 1.077). I followed the recipe (amounts divided by 3 except the additives which I used the per gallon package directions) but I veered after day 4 with no action, by adding additional nutrient (DAP) and energizer. Day 6 still very little activity so I added another tsp of energizer. 
Yesterday it started rolling along and today was dropping SG points like an all-star. I checked again just now and there's a strong, but not yet overpowering, smell of acetone/nail polish remover. I read this thread a few times and no one mentions a way to correct it. Is there a way? Should I add campden? Since yesterday (SG 1.060) its dropped to 1.032. I stir twice a day. Maybe so much oxygen has depleted the sulfites and is calling for help? 

Thanks and sorry for waking the dead.


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## Sammyk (Jul 30, 2013)

Since this was our thread, I wanted to reply back. The peach is our very favorite wine. It is almost gone now, and was started in July 2012. Our grown daughter describes the peach wine as eating a peach and juice running down your arm.

It is dismaying that we worried it would be fusel wine when it is not even close to that, what EVER fusel means. We will be starting fresh peach wine again in a week or so and not worry about our high temps. We will double the peach wine this year from last year.

Because the peach wine is SO good the only person gifted bottles to was our grown daughter. While others did share wine when we opened while here, no one else received any. We hoarded it for ourselves.


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