# Fine scratches in the bottom of my bucket



## Juggernaut (Aug 4, 2013)

The bottom of my primary bucket is roughed up from stirring in sugar with a paddle. Should I replace the bucket because I can no longer trust it to be sanitary?


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## RCGoodin (Aug 4, 2013)

I've always heard that those scratches, in a fermentation bucket, are places bacteria can hide. When I'm stirring I try to do a figure 8 with the paddle, but in the center area and not touch the sides. There's also an issue when you are cleaning the bucket with a pad. It may be too abrasive and you'll have the same issue.

I assume that a fermenting bucket should be replaced after so many uses, but I'm too new to know when that time comes. I'll be anxious to hear from some experts on your thread.


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## Runningwolf (Aug 4, 2013)

I can only tell you what I do. I have some pretty serious scratches in my "fermetation" pail. I sanitize it well and use it!


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## WI_Wino (Aug 4, 2013)

My opinion is with wine, the primary is only used when the ferment is rocking and rolling. Different than when some folks use their bucket for weeks when brewing beer. Yeast is the boss for wine, I doubt much else can out compete. I have a couple of buckets with some small scratches. I let my k-meta solution soak in the bucket with the lid on loose for 5 minutes or so when sanitizing. One switch I made was to use a food grade plastic spoon rather than a stainless one. That pretty much stopped any new scratches.


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## FABulousWines (Aug 4, 2013)

I keep about a half inch of k-meta in the bottom of my bucket with the lid locked down when not in use. Good luck growing any bacteria in there!


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## cedarswamp (Aug 4, 2013)

FABulousWines said:


> I keep about a half inch of k-meta in the bottom of my bucket with the lid locked down when not in use. Good luck growing any bacteria in there!



Same here when I'm done a batch I scrub it clean and store it with a couple of cups of Kmeta, I store my utensils the same way.


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## cimbaliw (Aug 4, 2013)

I would think adequate cleaning would be enough. If you're worried about harboring bacterial or yeast colonies, perhaps you could sand the surface smooth. I've run across some 1500 grit sandpaper. On the other hand if you're terribly concerned new primaries aren't that expensive, you can reuse your current lid. Perhaps it's time to upgrade to a 10, 20 or 32 gallon Brute Trash can to use for your primary.

BC


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## dralarms (Aug 5, 2013)

I think sanding is a bad idea, but that's just my opinon.


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## bkisel (Aug 5, 2013)

The bucket I was given to start me on this hobby is scratched up a bit here and there. I have used it four times now, since January, without issue. I clean and sanitize both immediately before and after each use and also spray/spritz with sanitizer before storing. I feel I'm okay so long as I don't see any discoloration in or around the scratches (my bucket is white plastic).


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## dralarms (Aug 5, 2013)

Well, I wash mine, dry them and store them dry. (tried to do the k-meta thing but had some weak solution and had one develop mold once), then I wash them and spray them with strong k-meta and then wipe with a clean and dry paper towel.


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## GaDawg (Aug 5, 2013)

I use Star San. The foam sitting on those scratches helps me sleep at night


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## Rocky (Aug 5, 2013)

I have two of the 7.9 gallon buckets and both have some scratches on the bottom. I pour about 1" of k-meta sanitizing solution in, cover with the top loosely and let it sit for about 20-30 minutes before using. When I am finished with a bucket, I remove, clean and sanitize the spigot. I wash the bucket out with detergent, rinse it well spray it with k-meta and then dry it completely with a paper towel. I do check the buckets periodically for mold while not in use. 

I do remember that a while back on another forum I read where some people have had the bottom of the fermentation bucket break off. Once I have the bucket filled, it is never moved from the original position. I don't know what could cause that other than a defect from the manufacturing process. The way the bucket is made where the bottom and the sides join, there is a potential for weakness. Proper attention to the molding cycle would be critical. The design could be improved by thickening the area around the two joining surfaces or adding reinforcing ribs.


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## FABulousWines (Aug 5, 2013)

Rocky, Yes! And that is why I would also caution against sanding! No need to make that bottom any thinner than it already is!

I am so paranoid I keep my bucket in one of those plastic container thingy's that are designed for under-the-bed storage. It gives me some insurance against a leaky spigot, or the dreaded bottom falling out issue. I have to move my bucket into and out of the kitchen for initial set up and racking, but I just scoot it along the floor with the storage container along for the ride.


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## jswordy (Aug 5, 2013)

Use it. No worries. Sanitize it and use it.

I seriously think many of these worries and concerns are either: a.) Myths created by someone who was looking for a reason their wine didn't turn out and landed on this, or b.) Created fears made by the industry to sell more equipment.

If my grandpa got by with a set of half wooden barrels and used his feet in rubber boots to stomp grapes, and his wine tasted like I remember it, then a few scratches in plastic won't hurt ya.

Just think what many wineries do to make vast quantities of wine. I daresay most home winemakers are far more picky about sanitation. Yet the commercial wineries seem to do fine.


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## RCGoodin (Aug 5, 2013)

jswordy said:


> Use it. No worries. Sanitize it and use it.
> 
> I seriously think many of these worries and concerns are either: a.) Myths created by someone who was looking for a reason their wine didn't turn out and landed on this, or b.) Created fears made by the industry to sell more equipment.
> 
> ...


 
Jim,

How do you get back that "Rubbery Boot Taste" you've been missing from Grandpa's wine?

I think you're right, home winemakers have higher standards and that's not a bad thing. Cleanliness is next to Godliness. That came from Grandpa and Grandma too.


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## NoSnob (Aug 5, 2013)

I noticed in my first fermenter that it not only had scratches in the bottom but it was turning very dark under the scratches there. That's when I retired that bucket and became much more careful in my spoon stirring. 

Bottom line: My opinion is that I wouldn't worry about a few scratches but when your sanitizing liquid cannot eliminate the dark stains in the scratches, it has to go.

NS


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## jswordy (Aug 5, 2013)

RCGoodin said:


> How do you get back that "Rubbery Boot Taste" you've been missing from Grandpa's wine?



There wasn't one. The boots were kept for just that purpose and were kept washed. My larger point is what commercial wineries do. They'd never get any wine made if they ran around spritzing and worrying like many of us do, let alone hundreds of gallons per batch.


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## Julie (Aug 5, 2013)

Like everyone else I sanitize the hell out of them and use them. As far as sanding, I agree with FABulousWines, I won't do it. You may be sanding out some big scratches but you are adding a pile more scratches than what you are eliminating.


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## robie (Aug 5, 2013)

jswordy said:


> There wasn't one. The boots were kept for just that purpose and were kept washed. My larger point is what commercial wineries do. They'd never get any wine made if they ran around spritzing and worrying like many of us do, let alone hundreds of gallons per batch.



You and I have been going around for quite a while now, so I think we can state our opinions without offending each other... just our own opinions and we know that.

Yep, some wineries hang the wine thief up and go from barrel to barrel with it all season, washing it only at the end of the season... well, maybe washing it.

Me, I spritz my wine thief religiously between samples. I confess I very likely over do it.

I am sure grandpa made some very fine wine. I can't even claim we make any better wine today, unless maybe we have better grapes than he did and that may not even be true. I also doubt he did much spritzing of anything. Lots of good wine was made before the greater emphasis on sanitation.

However, if you take, not one, but 100 grandpas, who make wine that old-fashioned way, and 100 modern home wine makers, who maybe overdo it on the sanitation end, and let them make the same wine every year for, say, 20 years, what do you think the results may be? Assuming all else is equal besides the modern sanitation principles, I believe the grandpas will have many more good batches "die" before their time than the modern home wine makers. I believe the presence of modern sanitation principles increases the modern man's odds, not of making a better tasting wine, but a wine that could last longer.

Grandpa made some might fine wine, but in many cases, his wine went bad long before its time. Likely turned to vinegar or spoiled way too soon; maybe from bad mold.

It's true that using modern sanitation practices is not necessarily going to result in a better wine. In the long run, it is going to result in wines lasting longer and more likely to reach their full aging potential.

I have to believe that at least some of those grandpas would like to have known why their batches would sometimes die too soon and maybe also how to have prevented it from happening.

For those who want to make wine that old fashioned way, no problem. Hey, I'll drink his/her wine any day! An individual may make wine that way for a lifetime and never have a single batch go bad. I just believe the odds are less in his favor.

Just my opinion.


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## RCGoodin (Aug 5, 2013)

WOW, Robie, you said a mouthful. Here's to Grandpa's and here's to today home winemakers......


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## Juggernaut (Aug 6, 2013)

cimbaliw said:


> I would think adequate cleaning would be enough. If you're worried about harboring bacterial or yeast colonies, perhaps you could sand the surface smooth. I've run across some 1500 grit sandpaper. On the other hand if you're terribly concerned new primaries aren't that expensive, you can reuse your current lid. Perhaps it's time to upgrade to a 10, 20 or 32 gallon Brute Trash can to use for your primary.
> 
> BC



Where do you get a racking cane long enough for one of those Brute trash cans?


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## Rampage4all (Aug 6, 2013)

Juggernaut said:


> Where do you get a racking cane long enough for one of those Brute trash cans?



Thing to do would be get some stainless tubing and bend it and make your own.


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## jswordy (Aug 6, 2013)

Juggernaut said:


> Where do you get a racking cane long enough for one of those Brute trash cans?



Why, vendor Doug at Brew and Wine Supply can fix you up inexpensively with a 30" but I also have used my regular ol 24" and a very large spring paper clip with no worries.

http://brewandwinesupply.com


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Aug 28, 2013)

did a trick last year getting juice out of a 35 gallon blue barrel, started off with an Auto-siphon and extended it all the way. Just doubled in size!


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