# Cloudy Pinot Grigio



## RegionRat (Feb 23, 2014)

I racked a Pinot Grigio yesterday that was made from a juice bucket I bought in the fall. This was the second tracking while ageing and it still seems to be a little cloudy. This is my first attempt at a white wine. Should I be concerned or will it clear on itself. The pH and S 02 levels are fine .

RR


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## ibglowin (Feb 23, 2014)

If you have a whole house filter (not any type of gravity filter) you could filter with a 1 micron filter. That should fix it up.


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## RegionRat (Feb 23, 2014)

ibglowin said:


> If you have a whole house filter (not any type of gravity filter) you could filter with a 1 micron filter. That should fix it up.



I guess what I am trying to ask is, if it not being totally clear now should concern me. I dont plan on bottling it for at least 6 more months. 

I do have whole house filter. If you think I need to filter it now I will. If you think it will clear on its own I would rather just let it go.

RR


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## joeswine (Feb 23, 2014)

*Clearing wine*

THIS IS WHAT I WOULD DO,DO NOT FILTER YOUR WINE THROUGH A PUMPING SYSTEM YET ITS VERY YOUNG AND YOU COULD STRIP AWAY THE TASTE AS YOU FILTER ESPECIALLY WHITES,YOU STILL HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO LET IT SIT,IF YOUR IN HURRY THEN USE SUPERKLEER WITH IN 24 TO 36 HRS. IT SHOULD CLEAR NICELY AND SETTLE TO THE BOTTOM ,IF THERE STILL IS A HAZE THEN THAT COULD BE WHAT IS KNOWN AS PECTIN HAZE ALSO SOMETHING NOT TO BE OVERALLY CONCERN ABOUT YET ,THE WINE IS YOUNG YOU HAVE TIME,USE IT WISELY.

TEMPERATURE CAN ADD TO YOUR DECREASE VISIBILITY.WERE IS THE SITTING AT, WHAT TEMP?


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## Runningwolf (Feb 23, 2014)

I agree to let it sit. As Joe asked what temp is it? Most folks will tell you to cold stabilize it to help clear it up and in some cases they are right. On the other hand I know a person that couldn't get his peach to clear for anything. Had it in the cold, used super kleere and gave it time. It wasn't until he brought it into a warm room that it cleared right up.


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## RegionRat (Feb 23, 2014)

Thanks... The wine is sitting in my basement. It is in an unheated part of my house. Even though it is unheated I would guess the temp never reaches below 50f. I can guarantee as cold as it has been outside in the last months it has not been above 60f. 

The sediment at last racking was hard like rock candy. I had to break it up to get out of carboy and get it down the drain in my sink.

I have a bucket of Moscato I started at the same time as the PG. It is clear as a whistle. 

I dont want to take the chance of stripping any flavor by forcing it to clear if I dont have to. I guess that is what I am thinking. I was kinda thinking it was a pectic haze but was not sure. If I add a little enzyme can it hurt? Would that maybe help it clear?

Oh, it tastes very good by the way. 

RR


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## Runningwolf (Feb 23, 2014)

Bring it upstairs where it's above 65° for a few weeks and see what happens. Not saying it'll work but it doesn't cost anything and rules it out.


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## RegionRat (Feb 23, 2014)

What temp do you think would be best? I can put the carboy in a water bath and control the temp with an aquarium heater if you think.

RR


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## Runningwolf (Feb 23, 2014)

I think if you have a room around 70° that would be fine.


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## altavino (Feb 23, 2014)

since its already cold stable leave it alone in the cool spot where you had it as you said you have time.

check you so2 level add some and wait 2 months .

If it's still cloudy , consider bentonite fining , you can do bench tests to see if this option is right , this will deal with any protein instability . 
Rack after settling the bentonite for a week or two . 

if its not clear when you want to bottle , you can always fine it with the same type of products you use on a kit a couple weeks before bottling or filter it .

Filtering does not strip flavour . 90 percent of all commercial wines are filtered.


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## jpsmithny (Feb 25, 2014)

Just let it sit.. time is your ally here. See what it does in the spring when temps warm.

I agree with Joe. Don't filter if you can help it.


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## ibglowin (Feb 25, 2014)

The problem with waiting here is its already been 6 months. This is a Pinot Grigio, it should be ready to drink about now. Waiting another 6 months to clear IMHO is kinda overkill as the wine will then be almost a year old. Time to do something soon and get it in the bottle!


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## joeswine (Feb 25, 2014)

*time in a carboy*



  this is * fresh juice* I have never none this to achieve any type of maturity in 6 mos. usually one year is a standard ,by that time you would have at least have it ready for bottling ,but 6 mos.???


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## ibglowin (Feb 25, 2014)

Commercial wineries push fresh juice (whites) out all the time in 6-9 months. This is why white wines are termed "cash cows" in the business for a new winery. I am seeing the first of…… 2013 Sauvignon Blancs available for sale from some wineries.


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## hvac36 (Feb 26, 2014)

I would like to know how filtering a wine can cause flavor loss? Unless you use a carbon filter you can not unless u have some super filter that is .00005 microns. Hope I'm missing something here. 
I filter all my whites....


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## ibglowin (Feb 26, 2014)

It can't. I filter all my whites as well. 1 micron. Fining can as you are removing things and multiple finings can make it worse so you only want to fine once if you have to.


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## RegionRat (Feb 26, 2014)

ibglowin said:


> It can't. I filter all my whites as well. 1 micron. Fining can as you are removing things and multiple finings can make it worse so you only want to fine once if you have to.




As this is my first white wine from; juice, grapes, or kit I am still learning.

I have moved the carboy to a warmer part of my house. I am going to let it sit for a few weeks and see what happens. If it doesn't clear I will ask a few more questions.


From following this board I do understand that whites do come to their own faster then fruit and red wines. I was going to age it one year then bottle. Now you have me thinking of bottling sooner. 

My questions are;

1) What would be the benefit of bottling now vs letting it bulk age for a year?

2) If it is pectic haze, do you think I should add a little pectic enzyme?


RR


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## ibglowin (Feb 26, 2014)

One thing is for certain. You can't bottle until the wine is perfectly clear.

Keeping it warm is good. If it doesn't do the trick (in a few weeks to a month) I would fine it with SuperKleer or Sparkeloid (while keeping it warm 68-72 degrees). Needless to say the wine should be degassed. It should have degassed on its own by now but……. stranger things have happened. Can't hurt if you have a way to do it and remember a wine degasses faster and clears faster when its warmer and not colder.


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## altavino (Feb 26, 2014)

many white wines contain proteins that cause haze issue that are not sediment related.

this is why many commercial producers fine with bentonite before cold stabilising.

if its sediment related filtering would help.

a two part fining agent like that used it kits will fix this haze whether it is protein or sediment related , add one part one day stir gently and the next day add the other part sir gently and wait for a couple weeks . it should be ready to bottle.


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## RegionRat (Feb 27, 2014)

Okay, Here is where i am.

I moved the carboy to a temp controlled water-bath. It is siting nicely at 70f. 

After reading for the last few days I am convinced it is suffering from pectin haze. Yet there is no way to be absolutely certain. Would the addition of pectic enzyme help? If it is not pectic haze and I add enzyme would there be any damage done to the wine....

I am comfortable letting it sit there indefinitely if need be. But I would like to address this as soon as possible.




Thanks

RR


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## RegionRat (May 6, 2014)

*Update*

I ended up adding PE and let it sit at 70°. I checked a few weeks ago and it has cleared nicely. It tastes awesome! It was suggested I can bottle it without a long time of bulk aging so, I bottles it the other day. 

This is my fist white wine juice bucket I have done. I am really impressed in how it tastes for such a young wine. I will tell you this. There will be lots more in the future.

RR


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## Calamity Cellars (May 9, 2014)

There is some really bad advice in this topic and I cannot let you be led astray.

First, this is a Pinot Gris made from wine grapes. You do not have a pectin haze. That is a non-grape problem.

Second, the temperature you store the wine at will not affect cloudiness.

Third, many many many commercial wineries, including mine, have already released their 2013 white wines.

Fourth, filtering, if done properly will not only not harm the wine but will help clear it sooner therefore prevent the risk of oxidation that can result from extending time outside the bottle.

Fifth, pumping with a mechanical pump is extremely common. Unless your pump has an air leak on the suction side and is introducing O2 then pumping is just fine.

My advice:

1st, make damn sure your SO2 levels are at the appropriate level for your pH. A word of caution if your pH is very low. A low pH shifts the sulfite equilibrium towards the molecular form which is what protects your wine but is also what stinks if you have too much. Pinot Gris' tend to have high acid and low pH and it is easy to 'bump the so2 a bit' and push it into a stinky wine.

2nd, Bentonite is used for two purposes and can strip flavors or aromas if over added. I never add bentonite for clearing, that is what filters are for. I do add bentonite at the lowest level possible to prevent heat instability which is also known as protein instability. I detailed this process ad nauseam on another forum so I will not do that here. Send me a pm if you would like more information.

3rd, Pinot Gris is high in acid and benefits greatly from cold stabilization which forces the crystallization of tartaric acid. This will happen when you refrigerate or ice the bottled wine before serving so you might as well do it in your bulk container before bottling. I like to add bentonite then cold stabilize. This creates a nice crust of tartaric crystals on top of the bentonite which helps with that first racking.

4th, I find some years my Pinot Gris clears real fast on it's own and some years it never clears. I filter. I filter aggressively and I filter with a mechanical pump. I filter with a 5 micron filter directly off the bentonite then progressively through a 1.5 micron, 0.45 micron nominal pad a couple days before bottling and, finally, on bottling day, through a 0.45 absolute cartridge element.

Hope this helps.


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