# 2019 Lodi Meritage



## Johnd

It's been a little hard getting my head into winemaking gear this year. The flood waters have subsided and my property is nearly back to normal. The heat in the south hasn't subsided at all, normally by mid September, we're sporting highs in the 80's, but the mid and upper 90's haven't relented yet. 

Nonetheless, I'm getting it together and have decided to do a Bordeaux style blend this year, high on the Cab Sauv side, plus Merlot, Cab Franc and Petit Verdot. Still working on the quantities, but it'll be enough to fill a 60 gallon barrel, plus a little extra for a local winemaker to take home at least a carboy. Three friends in the area will be making wine with me this year, and leaving their wines to age in the barrel, should be fun.

Varietals will be crushed / destemmed, fermented, and go through MLF separately, and blended into the barrel late in 2019 for a good long sit. Haven't ordered the barrel yet, but it'll be some French Bordeaux style barrel. The supply chain is still in place, I'll get my refrigerated fresh grapes from Colavita via a local winery sometime in early October, will place the order in the next couple of weeks.

Didn't really get a very good start on my ingredient acquisition, ordered 80g packs of D254 and BM4x4, along with VP41, plus cold shipping packs and 2nd day delivery. USPS missed the delivery date and crammed the box into my mailbox the morning after it was scheduled to arrive, instead of delivering to my front door. The box sat in my mailbox all day in the hot sun, and everything was fried by the time I got home from work. The yeast may be OK, but I doubt the VP41 survived, so I reordered everything and it'll be delivered to my office on Friday, where it will have to be brought inside. Looking forward to bottling the 2017 barrel in the next couple of months as well, as I'll need the space in the wine room for the new barrel. Cheers!!!


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## mainshipfred

Have fun with it, as you know I blended my first Meritage recently. I assume all of you will get together for the blending.


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## CDrew

Subscribing to this thread. Good luck. Does this mean a new barrel or a rotation into your 60 gal? Bad luck about the mailbox/oven. Picking Syrah this Saturday. Like you, looking forward to another year of winemaking.

Edit. Read more carefully about the new barrel. Sounds great.


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Have fun with it, as you know I blended my first Meritage recently. I assume all of you will get together for the blending.



That's the plan, we'll just have to see how the timing works out. Probably won't have enough finished wine to do a lot of variations on the blend, but some tinkering should be in order.........


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> That's the plan, we'll just have to see how the timing works out. Probably won't have enough finished wine to do a lot of variations on the blend, but some tinkering should be in order.........



By variations I assume you mean a limited amount of certain varietals. It almost sounds like you have a pre blended plan in mind.


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## Donz

John, my 2018 blend was 63% Cab/22% Merlot/15% Cab Franc, all Lodi fruit. It is coming along really nicely and looks like it will age beautifully. 

Would have loved a small portion of petit Verdot but cant get my hands on any down here in Montreal.

Good luck.


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## Johnd

Donz said:


> John, my 2018 blend was 63% Cab/22% Merlot/15% Cab Franc, all Lodi fruit. It is coming along really nicely and looks like it will age beautifully.
> 
> Would have loved a small portion of petit Verdot but cant get my hands on any down here in Montreal.
> 
> Good luck.



I'm planning to have the fruit to do something similar, except with the Petit Verdot included. Was kind of targeting something in the range of 60% Cab, 20% Merlot, 10% each Cab Franc and Petit Verdot, having enough to make that work, plus some extra of each in case taste dictates a slight change in the blend.


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## Donz

Sounds promising! I was trying to replicate my favorite and life altering beast Ornellaia 

http://www.ornellaia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/OR2016-VINTAGE-SHEET-EN.pdf

51% Cabernet Sauvignon, 27% Merlot, 18% Cabernet Franc, 4% Petit Verdot


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## sour_grapes

Donz said:


> Sounds promising! I was trying to replicate my favorite and life altering beast Ornellaia
> 
> http://www.ornellaia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/OR2016-VINTAGE-SHEET-EN.pdf
> 
> 51% Cabernet Sauvignon, 27% Merlot, 18% Cabernet Franc, 4% Petit Verdot



Huh!? Who woulda thunk of a totally, totally Bordeaux blend from Tuscany? (I.e., not a random Super Tuscan blend.)


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## Donz

It's pretty hard to beat.


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## Johnd

sour_grapes said:


> Huh!? Who woulda thunk of a totally, totally Bordeaux blend from Tuscany? (I.e., not a random Super Tuscan blend.)


 
........and with no Sangiovese.............


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## Donz

Most of the Bolgheri Super Tuscans actually do not have any Sangiovese.


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## Johnd

Time to put in the grape order today, finally settled on quantities for the blend. This year we'll be ordering 20 lugs of Cab, which will give 40+ gallons of finished wine to play with, 14 lugs of Merlot for 28+ gallons, 4 lugs of both Petit Verdot and Cab Franc for 8+ gallons of each. Total of 84+ gallons to fill the 60 gallon barrel, so we'll have blending options when the time comes. Assuming all of those varietals will be available at the same time for picking / shipping, that's the plan.

Cab Sauv. will be limited to no more than 67% of the final blend, Merlot to no more than 47%, and PV and CF to no more than 13% each. Of course, there will be some leftovers after the wine goes into the barrel, we'll figure that out later.

This year, I've got several folks making wine with me, I'm looking forward to it. Last year @Scott Harbison joined in, it was great to have another set of hands, but unfortunately, he's moving and won't be in the mix this year. Good luck with the new job Scott!! Another one of our forum members, @Keith5 lives nearby and will be joining into the festivities this year. Keith will leave 6 gallons of his wine with me in the barrel / wine room and take another 6 gallons home with him to age after MLF. Two friends of mine are pitching in for grapes as well and will each take home several cases of wine once it's bottled in a couple years.

Last year the grapes were picked / shipped around the 6th of October, so we're getting close!!!


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## CDrew

Interesting. Are you trying to mimic a particular wine style like a left bank Bordeaux or do you plan to adjust your blend based on early tasting? Either way, it sounds like a fun experiment. 84 gallons of wine will be a good thing to have!


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## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Interesting. Are you trying to mimic a particular wine style like a left bank Bordeaux or do you plan to adjust your blend based on early tasting? Either way, it sounds like a fun experiment. 84 gallons of wine will be a good thing to have!



No particular wine that I'm trying to emulate, just gathering a variety of varietals typically used in Bordeaux blends to be blended into a barrel for aging. I've done straight Cab. Sauv. and Cab. Sauv. dominated wines (90%+) for several years running, and wanted to try my hand a more diverse blending. Once AF / MLF is over and the wines have had a chance to degas and settle, plan to do some early tasting / blending, then let the blend age in a barrel for 1-2 years.
We'll be using different yeasts as well, BM4x4 and D254. The PV and CF are small batches, so they'll each have one kind of yeast. The CS and Merlot will be in several fermenters, so those varietals will be fermented with different yeasts. Just trying to give my wine some complexity and am hoping that with more blending options, we can craft something pretty good.


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## jsbeckton

@Johnd, curious as to how many people overall will share in that 84gal? I’m envious of that kind of volume and all the options it gives you.

I pretty much make wine for myself and my wife so we only consume maybe 15 gallons a year including some giveaways.

I guess I should step up my game and lay off the Oktoberfest and my wife should lay off the water!


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## Johnd

@jsbeckton , I started the same way, making kits and small quantities of grape wine, got way too much wine for my purposes, and scaled back. Now I do a 60 gallon barrel per year from grapes, plus the occasional fun project, Dragon Blood and strawberry this year.

I have a 30 gallons from 2017 barrel ready for bottling, all mine. A 60 gallon barrel from 2018, all but 6 gallons are mine. The 2019 batch that goes into the 60 gallon barrel will see 18 gallons go to others, plus 6 gallons that don’t go into the barrel going to @Keith5 . So, 60 of the 84 will ultimately stay with me. Prolly still have way too much......but I love doing it!!


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## Johnd

Talked to my grape supplier today, grapes are in a holding pattern due to some chilly weather in the area, but it looks like warmer weather on the way and they'll be picking on 13th / 14th. The grapes should arrive here by refrigerated truck in LA a couple days later. Should be making wine by mid-month!!


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## CDrew

Johnd said:


> Talked to my grape supplier today, grapes are in a holding pattern due to some chilly weather in the area, but it looks like warmer weather on the way and they'll be picking on 13th / 14th. The grapes should arrive here by refrigerated truck in LA a couple days later. Should be making wine by mid-month!!



Yep-Downright freezing here (Sacramento) for this time of year. It also rained a bit so that lowers the brix and they are probably waiting for things to dry out. I'd see that as a good thing. I'm picking mourvedre this weekend, and will keep careful eye on the brix and fruit condition. Good luck. It's been a good summer, so you should end up with great grapes.


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## Johnd

New schedule, picking / shipping this week, reefer truck will be in Sunday night. Perfect!!! I’ll be up at my property, very close to the delivery point, and will just stay and extra day, nice!!!


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## Keith5

Awesome! So do we meet at your place Monday pm to crush? I’ll call you tomorrow! Exciting times!


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## Johnd

Keith5 said:


> Awesome! So do we meet at your place Monday pm to crush? I’ll call you tomorrow! Exciting times!



Yes, left you a VM yesterday, give me a call this morning.


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## ibglowin

Johnd said:


> reefer truck will be in Sunday night.....



Will keep an eye out for it as it comes through NM.......


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> Will keep an eye out for it as it comes through NM.......



LOL, you won't see much that way, and then you won't even remember that you saw them..............living the retired life!!!


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## jburtner

Looks like it's going to be a nice batch! I might try to piggy-back off of a Colivata order within driving distance next year. How many lugs do you order for a 60 gallon batch? Watching this with anticipation 

Cheers,
johann


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## Johnd

jburtner said:


> Looks like it's going to be a nice batch! I might try to piggy-back off of a Colivata order within driving distance next year. How many lugs do you order for a 60 gallon batch? Watching this with anticipation
> 
> Cheers,
> johann



My normal (conservative) calculations for ordering grapes are that 3 lugs (36 lbs) yields 10 gallons of must and 6 gallons of finished wine, so 30 lugs would be my ordering number. That would give me plenty of extra to bottle for topping up during the 1-2 year barreling time. 

This year, I have some folks taking home some wine, after fermentation, it won't go into the barrel, plus a little extra to allow for adjusting blending percentages, so I have 1500 lbs. (42 lugs) ordered.


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## CDrew

You'll soon be ordering a full ton!


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## Johnd

Well, showed up at Landry Vineyard at 7:30 this morning to find an empty truck dock. Bummer. Waiting to hear when the load will be in, and making the best of the time. Found a local greasy spoon, having chicken fried steak with white gravy, two eggs over medium, toast and a Diet Coke.......perfect!!!


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## jburtner

Best of luck today!

Cheers,
johann


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Well, showed up at Landry Vineyard at 7:30 this morning to find an empty truck dock. Bummer. Waiting to hear when the load will be in, and making the best of the time. Found a local greasy spoon, having chicken fried steak with white gravy, two eggs over medium, toast and a Diet Coke.......perfect!!!



Anxious to see what your numbers look like. Our Lodi was picked 2 weeks earlier and I wasn't particularly the brix.


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## Johnd

Got grapes!!


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> View attachment 56985
> Got grapes!!



Have fun this evening.


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## CDrew

Johnd said:


> Got grapes!!



Oh yeah!

If I could like this twice, I would.

Busy day ahead, best of luck!


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## stickman

@Johnd Looks good, small berries and some lignified stems......


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## Boatboy24

Why does it say "Call 911"?


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## Johnd

We had a pretty good crush today, @Keith5 joined in along with a couple childhood friends, it really went smoothly......til the push stick got sucked into the paddles in the hopper, we got it solved for the time being. In all, we crushed 1500 lbs, 20 Cabs, 14 merlots, 4 Cab francs, and 4 petit Verdot. All of the fruit was excellent, small berries, clean clusters, no raisined fruit, really nice stuff. 


Numbers were pretty decent. 

Cab 25 BRIX, 3.80 pH, 6.0 TA
Merlot 24 BRIX, 3.89 pH, 4.0 TA 
Cab Franc 23 BRIX, 3.51 pH, 5.20 TA
Petit Verdot 24 BRIX, 3.8 pH, 4.2 TA

The BRIX numbers will go up by 1 I suspect, so we left that alone. We added 2 g/l tartaric to the merlot, and 1.5 g/l to the PV, will check pH tomorrow. Didn’t mess it’s the cab with a 6 TA, or the CF at 5,2 TA. Pitched two yeasts, BM 4x4 and D254, in different vessels. Later, when combined, hoping that the pH / TA adjustments, together with the lower pH PV will bring the blend into a good range. VP41 tomorrow nite. 

All are resting comfortably in the sunroom, with the white carpet rolled up, I might add.


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> Why does it say "Call 911"?



Don’t know for a fact, but I think it’s a note to the winery to call me as soon as it arrives. Sorta silly, I was there before the truck....

The other thought was that Col is for Colavita, and my order number was 911, by chance....

Edit: Just checked my invoice, the PO # is COL-911.....


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## jburtner

You might want to roll out the red carpet for that cute bunch of seven hangry soldiers....

Cheers!
Johann


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## ibglowin

You can learn a lot about a guy on this forum just by the pictures hanging on his wall........


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> You can learn a lot about a guy on this forum just by the pictures hanging on his wall........
> 
> View attachment 56994



You can learn a lot about a guy on this forum just by counting the fermenters in his living room!


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## ibglowin

Getting close to me a few years back.


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> You can learn a lot about a guy on this forum just by the pictures hanging on his wall........



As I was posting it, I knew you’d comment about that very photo. One of our goofy Christmas photos from every Christmas.



Boatboy24 said:


> You can learn a lot about a guy on this forum just by counting the fermenters in his living room!



And it’s all good....LOL. Keith said “Wait, we’re putting these in this room, like to stay? What’s your wife going to say?” My response, “She’ll say “Ooh, more wine, yayyy!!!!”


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## Johnd

Some more photos from yesterday’s crush..


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Some more photos from yesterday’s crush..
> 
> View attachment 57029
> View attachment 57030



I want to see the stuck spoon.


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> I want to see the stuck spoon.



LOL, it wasn't a spoon, it was a 3 foot piece of 1" x 2" mahogany left over from the wine room build. Took some big screwdrivers and some elbow grease to break it in half and get it out. It got sucked into the screw feed in the hopper and jammed the paddles when it reached them. The force actually rotated one of the crushing rubber rollers. Instead of the two crushing rubber rollers meshing together, they were hitting at their high points as they rotated, making a loud noise and causing the C/D to shake a lot. I just adjusted the rollers further apart so that they didn't hit, and we finished the last few lugs that way. It didn't crush the grapes as thoroughly as before, but it got us through the balance. I'm going to have to disassemble the machine and get the rollers properly adjusted and put it back together. It'll be a good opportunity to clean it really well and get it lubricated so it'll be ready to go next year.. Sorry, no pics of it wedged in there...........


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## Johnd

Must was still, and at 64F last nite, still chilly from the cold ride from Cali. Gave it a little mixing to get the skins and yeast on top into the mix, and decided to hold off on MLB. 

Woke this morning to mini caps and some barely visible signs of activity, so it got MLB this morning. Around 84 gallons, 2 packs VP41, 500 ml DI water, 2 packs ActiML, well mixed and split seven ways. Added dosages of Fermaid K and OptiMalo Plus, punched down / mixed it all in, and just like that, we’re off the starting line! 

Gonna be shooting for a day in the upper 80’s or low 90’s, followed by a cool finish. I’ll be able to roll fermenters into the 55F wine room if needed. The smell of wine fermenting in October, love it!!


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## ibglowin

Obviously we are going to have to do a "stop work" on this process immediately. Winemaking Talk takes *ISM* (Integrated Safety Management) very seriously.









*The Winemaking Talk Four Commitments to safety, security:*

We conduct our work safely and responsibly to achieve our mission.
We ensure a safe and healthful environment for workers, contractors, visitors, and other on-site personnel.
We protect the health, safety, and welfare of the general public.
We do not compromise safety for personal, programmatic, or operational reasons.

*The Winemaking Talk Five Functions of our safety, security process:*

Define the scope of work. 
Identify and analyze hazards associated with the work. Anticipate human errors and put defenses in place.
Develop and implement hazard controls. 
Perform work within controls. Follow the plan. Be aware of any new hazards.
Provide feedback and continuous improvement.
This process will stand down immediately due to safety concerns. A meeting with all stakeholders will take place next week in the Winemaking Talk meeting room. Time and date TBD. 

Until then no one may enter the accident area for any reason........


Oh wait! I dreamt I was still working for the lab. Never mind folks. Carry on. But be safe out there!





Johnd said:


> LOL, it wasn't a spoon, it was a 3 foot piece of 1" x 2" mahogany left over from the wine room build. Took some big screwdrivers and some elbow grease to break it in half and get it out. It got sucked into the screw feed in the hopper and jammed the paddles when it reached them. The force actually rotated one of the crushing rubber rollers. Instead of the two crushing rubber rollers meshing together, they were hitting at their high points as they rotated, making a loud noise and causing the C/D to shake a lot. I just adjusted the rollers further apart so that they didn't hit, and we finished the last few lugs that way. It didn't crush the grapes as thoroughly as before, but it got us through the balance. I'm going to have to disassemble the machine and get the rollers properly adjusted and put it back together. It'll be a good opportunity to clean it really well and get it lubricated so it'll be ready to go next year.. Sorry, no pics of it wedged in there...........


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> Obviously we are going to have to do a "stop work" on this process immediately. Winemaking Talk takes *ISM* (Integrated Safety Management) very seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The Winemaking Talk Four Commitments to safety, security:*
> 
> We conduct our work safely and responsibly to achieve our mission.
> We ensure a safe and healthful environment for workers, contractors, visitors, and other on-site personnel.
> We protect the health, safety, and welfare of the general public.
> We do not compromise safety for personal, programmatic, or operational reasons.
> 
> *The Winemaking Talk Five Functions of our safety, security process:*
> 
> Define the scope of work.
> Identify and analyze hazards associated with the work. Anticipate human errors and put defenses in place.
> Develop and implement hazard controls.
> Perform work within controls. Follow the plan. Be aware of any new hazards.
> Provide feedback and continuous improvement.
> This process will stand down immediately due to safety concerns. A meeting with all stakeholders will take place next week in the Winemaking Talk meeting room. Time and date TBD.
> 
> Until then no one may enter the accident area for any reason........
> 
> 
> Oh wait! I dreamt I was still working for the lab. Never mind folks. Carry on. But be safe out there!



LOL, I actually tried to do a little pre crush safety lesson with my childhood buddy, explaining to him about making sure to load the hopper from the end away from the paddles, and not to get his hands in the hopper, not to get the push stick close to the paddles. He gave me that look that only an old friend can and asked if I thought he was f.....ing stupid, so I stood down. There wasn't much more than a sheepish grin from him when I hit the emergency stop button.........


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## mainshipfred

Funny you should say that. When people ask me questions about construction and I don't know their background it's hard to know how much detail to go into. I don't want to belittle them but there's always that little trick or piece of information that could be very helpful.


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Funny you should say that. When people ask me questions about construction and I don't know their background it's hard to know how much detail to go into. I don't want to belittle them but there's always that little trick or piece of information that could be very helpful.



know the feeling precisely!


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## Ajmassa

Johnd said:


> LOL, I actually tried to do a little pre crush safety lesson with my childhood buddy, explaining to him about making sure to load the hopper from the end away from the paddles, and not to get his hands in the hopper, not to get the push stick close to the paddles. He gave me that look that only an old friend can and asked if I thought he was f.....ing stupid, so I stood down. There wasn't much more than a sheepish grin from him when I hit the emergency stop button.........



And the “I’m not angry, Just disappointed, look’ in response. 

(Ok. Probably a little angry)


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## Johnd

Struggling to post a video.


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## CDrew

84 gallons of must is serious business, especially all at once. Very cool.

The mahogany mishap sounds like it added some unexpected tannin to the mix!

Please post up the post mortem of the crusher and what got broken and out of alignment. And if it's possible to line everything back up.

I'll look forward to the video, but YouTube is pretty easy.

One of my wine making friends is always advancing the grapes in the crusher with his hands. It makes me cringe, because there is likely more force than you expect and it could maim you in an instant. So glad it was your board and not your hand.


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## ibglowin

I was able to DL it. Tempting fate you are punching down a red wine in a long sleeve white business shirt..........

Get the Oxi-clean handy!



Johnd said:


> Struggling to post a video.


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> I was able to DL it. Tempting fate you are punching down a red wine in a long sleeve white business shirt..........
> 
> Get the Oxi-clean handy!



What does that mean, you were able to DL it? For the record, it's just a light gray long sleeve t-shirt............and I don't splash.


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## ibglowin

Johnd said:


> What does that mean, you were able to DL it? For the record, it's just a light gray long sleeve t-shirt............and I don't splash.



DL = Download

And I used to say the same thing about not splashing!


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> DL = Download
> 
> And I used to say the same thing about not splashing!



How did you download it? I deleted the link.....didn't think that was the right way to share a video. Is it OK to do an icloud link the way I did it?


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## ibglowin

I have an iCloud account like any other Apple user. I clicked the link before you deleted it and my iCloud account page opened in Safari. I had the option to download to my computer so I did. I think I can upload to youtube and post the link if you would like.


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## ibglowin

I would always use youtube for a link posted on an open forum. I would only post sharable iCloud links to friends and family for security reasons.


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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> I would always use youtube for a link posted on an open forum. I would only post sharable iCloud links to friends and family for security reasons.



That's kinda what I thought about that link also, that's why I deleted it. I assume you used some of your Super Moderator Super Powers to be able to see the link?........


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## ibglowin

No superpowers. If you send a post and I subscribe to that thread I will get an instant email notification like anybody else. Even if you delete the post anyone subscribed to the thread will see the post in an email. That link still works unless you delete the video from iCloud or password protect the file.


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## ibglowin




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## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> No superpowers. If you send a post and I subscribe to that thread I will get an instant email notification like anybody else. Even if you delete the post anyone subscribed to the thread will see the post in an email. That link still works unless you delete the video from iCloud or password protect the file.



Ahh, got it. Guess I'll go the YouTube route in the future.....thanks for the info!


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## Johnd

Temps on the cab fermenters been running 84, down to 13 BRIX, merlot at 80, 15 BRIX, Cab Franc and PV right between them at 82 and 14 BRIX. Broke one of my hydrometers, just for good luck. Lovely. Hit everybody with a shot of DAP and Fermaid K, looking for a temp spike plus enough to cross the finish line. Anticipating a Sunday press.

The wines are doing well, smell lively and fruity, alcohol is just starting to become a part of the aroma. Pleased thus far with extraction, color is looking great, and the berries haven’t turned to mush, didn’t overdo EX-V, thanks to @Keith5


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## Grape_City_Reefer

Maybe a silly question but, on on of your posts you mentioned no raisined fruit. I have only made two small batches of wines from grapes and I have wondered about blemishes over ripened fruit but when I spoke to commercial winemaker he told me the following about ugly berries/clusters "... taste it, is it sweet? If it is don't worry about it." Although they make great wine at that winery I still wonder if that is part to the volume/scale they work with. What is your opion/knowledge on this subject do you worry about removing the blemished berries(raisined, mildewy, etc.).

Thank you in advance.


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## Ajmassa

Grape_City_Reefer said:


> Maybe a silly question but, on on of your posts you mentioned no raisined fruit. I have only made two small batches of wines from grapes and I have wondered about blemishes over ripened fruit but when I spoke to commercial winemaker he told me the following about ugly berries/clusters "... taste it, is it sweet? If it is don't worry about it." Although they make great wine at that winery I still wonder if that is part to the volume/scale they work with. What is your opion/knowledge on this subject do you worry about removing the blemished berries(raisined, mildewy, etc.).
> 
> Thank you in advance.



Higher quality wineries will sacrifice quantity for quality. And they will sort the grapes much more thoroughly only using best fruit. Some documentary I saw on some Napa wineries shows the process well. Forget the name

Sorting grapes sucks. Especially when making larger volumes. Adds soooo much time. Has to be done by hand. But is just one of those variables that when combined with some others can be a difference from a good wine to a great wine. 

I work alone so it’s tough to get overly picky. I still remove leaves and bad clusters. but to really do it proper requires multiple people working the sorting table.


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## Grape_City_Reefer

Ajmassa said:


> Higher quality wineries will sacrifice quantity for quality. And they will sort the grapes much more thoroughly only using best fruit. Some documentary I saw on some Napa wineries shows the process well. Forget the name
> 
> Sorting grapes sucks. Especially when making larger volumes. Adds soooo much time. Has to be done by hand. But is just one of those variables that when combined with some others can be a difference from a good wine to a great wine.
> 
> I work alone so it’s tough to get overly picky. I still remove leaves and bad clusters. but to really do it proper requires multiple people working the sorting table.


Do you pitch a cluster if it even slightly bad (5 or 6 berries) or do you only pitch it if 25%(or other number) or more is bad? I am making my third batch from grapes, My first batch is just slightly over a year in carboys(Marechal Foch) so I am still learning the art.


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## Ajmassa

Grape_City_Reefer said:


> Do you pitch a cluster if it even slightly bad (5 or 6 berries) or do you only pitch it if 25%(or other number) or more is bad? I am making my third batch from grapes, My first batch is just slightly over a year in carboys(Marechal Foch) so I am still learning the art.



I’m still learning too man. Everyone has their own bar of acceptance. Sorting can be a lot of work and I’m trying to get through without wasting too much time. 
I’ll remove bad groupings. But if more than half cluster is suspect I won’t break my stones to salvage every last good grape and just toss it to the side. If a handful of bad grapes make it through or good grapes don’t I don’t sweat it. There’s grapes pretty much everywhere at the end of the day regardless. I don’t believe there’s a “wrong way” tho
My family was old school and would just dump it all right into the hopper with reckless abandon


----------



## CDrew

I mostly pick my own grapes and don't worry about a few raisins here and there. But I am selective enough, that no sorting is needed before crush. Raisins for the most part are OK and raise the brix a bit. Just don't go overboard.


----------



## Ajmassa

Totally hijacked John’s thread here. Lol. Sorry buddy. I start talking shop and easily get sucked in to the vortex


----------



## Johnd

Grape_City_Reefer said:


> Maybe a silly question but, on on of your posts you mentioned no raisined fruit. I have only made two small batches of wines from grapes and I have wondered about blemishes over ripened fruit but when I spoke to commercial winemaker he told me the following about ugly berries/clusters "... taste it, is it sweet? If it is don't worry about it." Although they make great wine at that winery I still wonder if that is part to the volume/scale they work with. What is your opion/knowledge on this subject do you worry about removing the blemished berries(raisined, mildewy, etc.).
> 
> Thank you in advance.



I don't get terrible concerned about the occasionally blemished berry here or there, but do watch for raisined clusters. They look just like they sound, a cluster of raisins (dried grapes) attached to the stems, I pull those out. I will also pull out any fruit that has mold or mildew on in, if any. I also don't worry too much about occasionally seeing some slightly shriveled berries, just not too many.
The grapes I've been getting the last three years from Colavita have been in great shape, with almost zero waste, if not zero. Last year we picked a lot of leaves, this year they were very clean, we were dumping full lugs in the hopper and pulling the odd leaf here and there as they fed through, super easy crush this year.


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa said:


> Totally hijacked John’s thread here. Lol. Sorry buddy. I start talking shop and easily get sucked in to the vortex



No worries, your answers are spot on. If you get to it first, have at it, it's all about the learning.............


----------



## Grape_City_Reefer

Johnd said:


> No worries, your answers are spot on. If you get to it first, have at it, it's all about the learning.............


Thank you for the reply, happy fermenting!


----------



## Donz

We open the cases and sort all of the clusters out by hand and then put them in separate containers before loading them in the hopper. Any leaves, or other unwanted dried out fruit discarded if they are bad. We get the ladies to do this, they are very thorough!


----------



## Johnd

Looks like we’re getting to the end of the rope, PV and CF down to 2 BRIX, Merlot at 5 BRIX, Cab at 0 BRIX. Think we’ll hit it hard first thing in the morning and knock it out. Just finished a punch down, will do one more before bed, and that’ll be the last of the season. Temps down to 80, everything smells wonderful, and the color looks solid.


----------



## Johnd

Did it in a big way today, started prepping carboys and press at 6 AM, vacuum racking wine out of the fermenters at 7, finished it up at 9 with pretty good yields, @Keith5 came over at 8. Couple more hours to press the skins, and another hour to clean up, done by around noon. 

19 full carboys plus 1.5 gallons in small jugs puts the gross total at 115.5 gallons. Will lose some when racked off of the gross lees, guessing we’ll end up around 110 gallons, plenty to play with.


----------



## ibglowin

Should be enough to last you a year.

Or two!


----------



## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> Should be enough to last you a year.
> 
> Or two! View attachment 57103



I was going to say it looks like a pretty good Saturday night about 24 months from now.


----------



## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> I was going to say it looks like a pretty good Saturday night about 24 months from now.



Well....since I’m only making wine once a year, and not all of its for me, don’t feel too bad about it. We really ended up with much more wine than anticipated, started getting concerned about running out of carboys. I’ve determined that after @Keith5 takes his carboy home after MLF, there’ll be enough to fill the new 60 gal Frenchie (due in soon), plus fill the neutral 30 gal frenchie from 2017. Just have to fill the 60 first so I’ll have enough carboys to empty the 30 and bottle it. When it’s ready Keith is taking 2019 finished barrel wine in addition to the carboy, and two other folks will be taking multiple cases as well.


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Did it in a big way today, started prepping carboys and press at 6 AM, vacuum racking wine out of the fermenters at 7, finished it up at 9 with pretty good yields, @Keith5 came over at 8. Couple more hours to press the skins, and another hour to clean up, done by around noon.
> 
> 19 full carboys plus 1.5 gallons in small jugs puts the gross total at 115.5 gallons. Will lose some when racked off of the gross lees, guessing we’ll end up around 110 gallons, plenty to play with.
> View attachment 57102



What size press do you have? That's a lot of pressing to get done in 2 hours.


----------



## Donz

Definitely efficient pressing!


----------



## Johnd

20 L manual press with wooden basket. Basically, each fermenter (there were 7) had two loads of skins in it. That means that we pressed 14 loads of skins in two hours, so roughly 9 minutes per basket. Keith loaded, ran, and emptied the press the whole time. I kept him supplied with skins, pressure washed the fermenters, swapped the juice catching buckets, loaded the carboys with wine, and hauled them back inside. We were pretty efficient and worked through it non stop.


----------



## jburtner

Very inspiring!


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> 20 L manual press with wooden basket. Basically, each fermenter (there were 7) had two loads of skins in it. That means that we pressed 14 loads of skins in two hours, so roughly 9 minutes per basket. Keith loaded, ran, and emptied the press the whole time. I kept him supplied with skins, pressure washed the fermenters, swapped the juice catching buckets, loaded the carboys with wine, and hauled them back inside. We were pretty efficient and worked through it non stop.



I'm especially impressed since you were using such a small press.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> I'm especially impressed since you were using such a small press.



You know the old saying, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"!! LOL

Truth told, wanted to get a new, bigger, bladder press this year, but held off on it. In retrospect, the older small press did just fine.......but still want a new toy!

Edit: I really need to give kudos to @Keith5 , his first grape wine making endeavor, and first time running a press, he was a machine, couldn't have done it without him!!


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> You know the old saying, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"!! LOL
> 
> Truth told, wanted to get a new, bigger, bladder press this year, but held off on it. In retrospect, the older small press did just fine.......but still want a new toy!
> 
> Edit: I really need to give kudos to @Keith5 , his first grape wine making endeavor, and first time running a press, he was a machine, couldn't have done it without him!!



I'm pretty happy with what I currently have and have always been a believer in you get your best deals when you are not looking. But a bladder would be nice, however what i really think I need is one of those @Keith5 's. Maybe I'll start a search on Craigslist!


----------



## CDrew

Johnd said:


> 20 L manual press with wooden basket. Basically, each fermenter (there were 7) had two loads of skins in it. That means that we pressed 14 loads of skins in two hours, so roughly 9 minutes per basket. Keith loaded, ran, and emptied the press the whole time. I kept him supplied with skins, pressure washed the fermenters, swapped the juice catching buckets, loaded the carboys with wine, and hauled them back inside. We were pretty efficient and worked through it non stop.



Quite jealous you have such willing and capable help. I seem to be working alone most of the time and the clean up is the time killer. Your forest of carboys looks excellent!


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> I'm pretty happy with what I currently have and have always been a believer in you get your best deals when you are not looking. But a bladder would be nice, however what i really think I need is one of those @Keith5 's. Maybe I'll start a search on Craigslist!



Ha!! That's funny! After many years of making wine alone, it sure is nice to have an extra pair of hands or two, really speeds the activities along. Keith saw my location on this forum and reached out, been doing kits and such and wanted to do grapes, so it worked out pretty well. We were chatting a bit during pressing about crush day, he was pleased to be able to run pH tests on the must, check the TA, talk about what we thought the right moves were for each must, and make the additions. It's fun to show somebody how to do all those things and to watch them put their knowledge into practice. Doesn't hurt that we had a really good time working on the wine.


----------



## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Quite jealous you have such willing and capable help. I seem to be working alone most of the time and the clean up is the time killer. Your forest of carboys looks excellent!



It's a blessing for sure. One of the best tools acquired for both crush and press day is a little electrically powered pressure washer, it makes cleanup of all of the equipment and the work area a breeze. Big time saver.


----------



## Donz

Agree 100% couldn’t do the volume we do without the pressure washer cleanup.


----------



## Johnd

Last night, cooked burgers for the fam and did the 72 hour gross lees racking. After the racking, ended up with 110 gallons of wine, mostly still now, except for the merlot, which just continues to bubble.

First time doing petit Verdot, didn’t realize what a dark, inky wine it is, ‘it’s obvious now why it’s part of the Bx blend, but not just for the color, it’s got an interesting taste that I like as well. Looking forward to blending.


----------



## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Last night, cooked burgers for the fam and did the 72 hour gross lees racking. After the racking, ended up with 110 gallons of wine, mostly still now, except for the merlot, which just continues to bubble.
> 
> First time doing petit Verdot, didn’t realize what a dark, inky wine it is, ‘it’s obvious now why it’s part of the Bx blend, but not just for the color, it’s got an interesting taste that I like as well. Looking forward to blending.
> View attachment 57140



In our area PV is gaining popularity as a single varietal which is great by me.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> In our area PV is gaining popularity as a single varietal which is great by me.



A while back, I found and ordered a bottle of 2013 TOR Petit Verdot Vine Hill Ranch, WA 92. Haven't tried it yet, but wanted to taste one that was pure varietal, not so easy to find..


----------



## mainshipfred

If you PM me your address I'll send you a bottle of last years PV. Even though it's just over a year old it's more than drinkable.


----------



## Donz

Cant get my hands on PV down here. Wish I could, it's a great blender.


----------



## buzi

@Johnd , I found that the flavor of the PV is great, but I haven't had a grape flavor profile change so much over time! Keep 5 bottles for yourself and drink one every other year...that can be your next thread


----------



## Johnd

buzi said:


> @Johnd , I found that the flavor of the PV is great, but I haven't had a grape flavor profile change so much over time! Keep 5 bottles for yourself and drink one every other year...that can be your next thread


We ended up with some extra wine, so I’m hoping that after blending there will be enough to bottle some pure varietals. Guess it just depends on how the blending ends up, I’ll keep it in mind to try to save a bit.


----------



## Boatboy24

Johnd said:


> We ended up with some extra wine, so I’m hoping that after blending there will be enough to bottle some pure varietals. Guess it just depends on how the blending ends up, I’ll keep it in mind to try to save a bit.



I've been using Petite Sirah for blending and really enjoy it as a single varietal as well. Takes a few years to come around, but worth the wait. I need to remember to make more so I have more than half a case or so left after blending.


----------



## ibglowin

I had about 2 bottles worth of PV left over after bottling my 2011's from FVW that year. Left them alone for about 18 months and drank one over a couple days. The 2nd one didn't last much longer after that. If you want to know how your wine is doing opening one and drinking it over the next 3,4,5 days is a good way to see how it will stand up as it ages.

I know of two wineries in WA that bottle a PV varietal wine. Saviah Cellars as well as Spring Valley Vineyard.


----------



## jburtner

My chilean PV from spring 2018 was a little herbaceous initially and is pretty good now. I’m going to bottle it as a single varietal. 

-johann


----------



## Johnd

I have about 40 bottles of pure varietal PS from a couple years ago, still along. I love PS and collect some good commercial ones, bunch of Turleys, Jeff Cohn, Como No, Outpost, and several others, good varietal for sure.


----------



## Jal5

I think I will try a bucket of PS in the Spring


----------



## mainshipfred

I have some Cali PS from 2018 still in a carboy, it's just not there yet. I do plan on blending it with Zin and Syrah.


----------



## mainshipfred

I posted earlier that you get your best deals when you're not looking. Well here is what Craigslist got me today. I really thought the hydraulic one was a foil spinner. The guys father was an engineer and he fabricated the hydraulic corker. I tried to take a video but I just got a new PC with updated software and haven't learned how to use it yet.
got these, a large magnetic stirrer, a small pump and a dozen 50 ml flasks for $130.00.


----------



## mainshipfred

Didn't get as good a deal as I thought. The hydraulic one doesn't quite work, Instead of having the jaws to squeeze the cork it sends the cork through a cone. The problem is when pushing the cork through the cone it compresses the cork and once inserted is only about an inch in length. It must have been a prototype that didn't make it to the finish line. Not giving up on it though since it has a good start.
Don't mean to steal you thread John but the reference seemed appropriate.


----------



## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Didn't get as good a deal as I thought. The hydraulic one doesn't quite work, Instead of having the jaws to squeeze the cork it sends the cork through a cone. The problem is when pushing the cork through the cone it compresses the cork and once inserted is only about an inch in length. It must have been a prototype that didn't make it to the finish line. Not giving up on it though since it has a good start.
> Don't mean to steal you thread John but the reference seemed appropriate.



No worries Fred, I'm very forgiving and don't have thread envy.............


----------



## Keith5

I went to visit family in San Francisco this past weekend and we planned to go to Sonoma/Healdsburg, but the fires had spread and mass evacuations from those areas, into Napa, all the way out to the coast, were ongoing, so we went south to Monterey. I hope NorCal is safe. I think he lives a little north of Sonoma, which was in the fire and evacuation zones. Not good.


----------



## Johnd

Getting ready for a big wine move in the next month or so. The Alain Fouquet Prestige Margaux Chateau Ferre MT+ barrel showed up today........out of the blue. No biggie, happened to be in the truck today. Gonna run it home shortly, it’s 35 here today and I’d like to get it into a more temperate environment.

Haven’t run a chromo on the 2019 wines yet, but I’m betting that they’re already across the finish line. Like to get the barrel loaded up in December, free up carboys to unload the 2017 wine barrel and get it bottled.


----------



## CDrew

35 in Louisiana? That sounds colder than I would have thought.

Congrats on the beautiful new barrel!


----------



## ibglowin

I hate it when brand new French wine barrels show up "out of the blue"........ LOL

Was 31 this AM in San Antonio. Definitely cold for this part of the country especially this time of year.


----------



## Johnd

ibglowin said:


> I hate it when brand new French wine barrels show up "out of the blue"........ LOL
> 
> Was 31 this AM in San Antonio. Definitely cold for this part of the country especially this time of year.



Hadn't heard from them since making payment. In the past, they've contacted me to let me know it had been sent, and I also hear from the shipper to arrange both delivery and payment. Nothing at all this year, guess the shipper will just bill me, who knows.........

Front just passed through last night, 72 F outside when I went to bed, 37 F when I got up, and it dropped a bit more to 35 F, cloudy and very windy. Sun just came out, it's feeling a bit better, supposed to get down to the upper 20's tonight. Lows up at my property supposed to be 21 F, hope my cold weather preps were sufficient up there when I left on Sunday............... Don't get me wrong, I hate hot weather, I'm glad old man winter is paying us a visit, summer was brutal and long this year.


----------



## jburtner

I see a lot of commercial wines that specify Aged in "25%" new barrels / Aged in 50% new barrels / etc... Will you plan to keep some out of the barrel for blended oaking options?

It was down to about 20* here this morning in Nashville with an inch of snow! Stay warm! As we get into Dec/Jan I'll move any wines I have out to the cold-azz-dungeon-room for cold stabilizing. One day I'll insulate that room and add a cool-bot system to keep it @ 55* year round.

Cheers,
johann


----------



## Johnd

jburtner said:


> I see a lot of commercial wines that specify Aged in "25%" new barrels / Aged in 50% new barrels / etc... Will you plan to keep some out of the barrel for blended oaking options?
> 
> It was down to about 20* here this morning in Nashville with an inch of snow! Stay warm! As we get into Dec/Jan I'll move any wines I have out to the cold-azz-dungeon-room for cold stabilizing. One day I'll insulate that room and add a cool-bot system to keep it @ 55* year round.
> 
> Cheers,
> johann



I plan to keep the 60 filled for 2 years, and I'll have enough to also fill the 30 that I'll be removing 2017 wine from. It wasn't my plan to do this, but since I have enough wine, why not. I'm pretty much assuming that the 2017 St. Martin barrel will be neutral, but still give up microx and concentration, and then I'll see what blending brings in 2021.........


----------



## CDrew

What prevents the first fill wine from "over oaking"? since it's in there for 2 years. Does it mellow over that period of time or is it just highly oaked? Not questioning your practice at all, just highly curious.

And the wine coming out of the 30 gallon barrel, what is it's level of oakiness?

Very interested in the secrets of the oak barrel, and because I used 100% of new oak barrel level of stavin beans in my Primitivo in 2018 and it was clearly too much at bottling (hoping time mellows it some).


----------



## Chuck E

ibglowin said:


> I hate it when brand new French wine barrels show up "out of the blue"........ LOL
> 
> Was 31 this AM in San Antonio. Definitely cold for this part of the country especially this time of year.



I woke up to 7 F this morning. Too damn early in the season for this.


----------



## Johnd

CDrew said:


> What prevents the first fill wine from "over oaking"? since it's in there for 2 years. Does it mellow over that period of time or is it just highly oaked? Not questioning your practice at all, just highly curious.
> 
> And the wine coming out of the 30 gallon barrel, what is it's level of oakiness?
> 
> Very interested in the secrets of the oak barrel, and because I used 100% of new oak barrel level of stavin beans in my Primitivo in 2018 and it was clearly too much at bottling (hoping time mellows it some).



Nothing really prevents it from too much oak, other than limiting time in the barrel. I did choose french oak in M+ toast in the hopes that I could get a couple years in the barrel. Currently, the wine in the 30 doesn't taste overly oaky, and it's nearing the two year point, think it went in in December / January of 17 / 18. Had it gotten to the point of slightly more oak than desired, it would have been pulled. Oak does seem to fall back a smidge once bottled, so it's not too scary to get a little over. The bigger barrels with a lower wine / oak ratio seem to be more forgiving than I recall the 6 and 12 gallon barrels I used to use, for the same reason. The key is tasting!!


----------



## Donz

6 months bottle aging significantly cuts the oak back noticeably from my perspective. It works wonders to my wines. 

Not easy to keep wines bottled for 6 months however!


----------



## Donz

Let's see this barrel unwrapped!


----------



## Johnd

Donz said:


> Let's see this barrel unwrapped!



LOL!! I'm dying to unwrap it as well, it's my first Chateau Ferre style barrel. Just a tad concerned that unwrapping it now will expose it to pretty low humidity in my home, and don't want it to dry out / shrink before it is loaded with wine. It's shrink wrapped, covered in cardboard, and shrink wrapped again, kinda feel like that helps moderate the exposure to dry conditions. I promise to post a pic when it gets unwrapped!


----------



## stickman

I agree with leaving it wrapped, I was recently at a restaurant where they had stacks of 59gal barrels being used as a decoration, you could see a 1/4 inch gap between the hoop and the wood, the hoops would have fallen off if it wasn't for the hoop nails.


----------



## Donz

definitely keep her wrapped until she's ready for barrel prep and then wine.


----------



## Johnd

Went home at lunch today and kicked off a chromotography test on the 2019's. Not enough room on one paper to do each carboy, but with 9 spots I got a test for each varietal / yeast combo, plus the press wine of each varietal. Should be ready to come out to dry by tonight, with legible results by morning. Really hadn't hardly looked at the carboys since the gross lees racking, they were all still today except for the Merlot, which was still fizzling along, pesky merlot.... 
All the carboys I sampled from smelled wonderful, looking forward to some tasting, blending, and barrel loadiing before Christmas.


----------



## Johnd

Good looking chromatography results, only tested every other carboy, but a representation of all of the fermenters. One pic taken in light, one in the dark. 

Not sure if I pushed the envelope with MLB distribution, you may recall one delivery of MLB got baked in the mailbox, so I ordered another. Used both during inoculation, each good for 66 gallons, but I had close to 120. Don’t know if the baked package was viable, but it seems to have worked out. 

Will let them sit another couple weeks, then start making plans for sulfiting, blending / taste trials, and loading the barrel for a long nap.


----------



## stickman

Looks good! 
BTW I'm not sure I've ever had a chromatogram fully loaded like that.


----------



## Johnd

stickman said:


> Looks good!
> BTW I'm not sure I've ever had a chromatogram fully loaded like that.



I've done it once before, 9 samples is about the limit on one normal sized sheet, and still have it where the acid spots don't start blending together. 1/2" from the left margin, 1" spaces between gets it just right.


----------



## Boatboy24

stickman said:


> Looks good!
> BTW I'm not sure I've ever had a chromatogram fully loaded like that.



I think my record is 10, though I don't recall exactly. But I do believe that @Runningwolf did a dozen once.


----------



## buzi

Are we starting to get into tall tales ladies and gents? ;-). @Johnd I like the difference between the "light and dark" results. I used Malo for the first time this year an probably should check it soon.


----------



## Johnd

Just finished a little racking / sulfiting extravaganza on the 19’s, lost the two one gallons to lees in the process. Left with 18 six gallon carboys, four Cabs with D254, four cabs with BM 4x4, two D254 Merlot, two BM 4x4 Merlot, one Merlot half blended with Cab Franc / Petit Verdot, three Petit Verdot, and two Cab Franc. Tasted a little blend of CF / PV, nice fruit, little fizzy, little bitter, little tannic, green, kinda boozy, but very promising for a 2 month old wine. 

Nice to have everything sulfited, now I can procrastinate barrel loading for even longer!! Definitely my kind of hobby..


----------



## CDrew

That, is a lot of wine. Why didn't it go into the barrel with this racking? What is the strategy? (Looking to learn).

Nice to see that much in one place!

I'm a blue tape fan too.


----------



## stickman

Well you've got plenty of stock for when you sit down at the blending table!


----------



## Johnd

CDrew said:


> That, is a lot of wine. Why didn't it go into the barrel with this racking? What is the strategy? (Looking to learn).
> 
> Nice to see that much in one place!
> 
> I'm a blue tape fan too.



A few reasons. Wanted to get this rack and sulfiting in and let em sit and degas a bit more, and hopefully drop some more sediment. Once it goes into the barrel, I intend to leave it for two years with nothing but sulfiting and topping up. The more sediment that drops before, the better. @Keith5 and I haven’t gotten together yet to do our blending trials to determine the final mix. Plus, I haven’t gotten around to building the rolling barrel stand yet. It’s hunting season, the wine can wait, the ducks and deer won’t wait.


----------



## Johnd

stickman said:


> Well you've got plenty of stock for when you sit down at the blending table!



Been lamenting about how much I over ordered, though it really lends itself to lots of blending ratios. With so many options, it could be a drunken endeavor by the time it’s decided. Maybe that will be its name, “Drunken Endeavor”.


----------



## Ajmassa

Hot damn! Lookin good John. You bottle up that 30gal Saint Martin to make room to fill and ya still got 3 more carboys to boot! Not too bad. 
Have you given any thought to the type of oak adjuncts you would be adding to the 30? Stave segments, those tank sticks on a rope, or would you go with spirals ?


----------



## Johnd

Ajmassa said:


> Hot damn! Lookin good John. You bottle up that 30gal Saint Martin to make room to fill and ya still got 3 more carboys to boot! Not too bad.
> Have you given any thought to the type of oak adjuncts you would be adding to the 30? Stave segments, those tank sticks on a rope, or would you go with spirals ?



Actually, I’m kinda thinking of just aging in the barrel without any adjuncts at all, just taking advantage of microx and concentration. Sorta let the wine be what it is, maybe do some blending with it and some of the 60 barrel wine.


----------



## Keith5

Let me know when we should get together for any work on the wine


----------



## Mario Dinis

Johnd said:


> Just finished a little racking / sulfiting extravaganza on the 19’s, lost the two one gallons to lees in the process. Left with 18 six gallon carboys, four Cabs with D254, four cabs with BM 4x4, two D254 Merlot, two BM 4x4 Merlot, one Merlot half blended with Cab Franc / Petit Verdot, three Petit Verdot, and two Cab Franc. Tasted a little blend of CF / PV, nice fruit, little fizzy, little bitter, little tannic, green, kinda boozy, but very promising for a 2 month old wine.
> 
> Nice to have everything sulfited, now I can procrastinate barrel loading for even longer!! Definitely my kind of hobby..
> 
> View attachment 57861


WOW, that'a a sight for sore eyes. But, aren't those carboys supposed to be topped up? what's the reason for all that airspace if you don't mind explaining?


----------



## sour_grapes

Mario Dinis said:


> WOW, that'a a sight for sore eyes. But, aren't those carboys supposed to be topped up? what's the reason for all that airspace if you don't mind explaining?



I'm not John, but I am not seeing any headspace. On a few of them, it looks to me like the light is playing tricks. On those, the reflected light from the top (above where the angle of the glass changes at the shoulder) looks like it is being reflected from the top of a (too-low) level of wine. If you look up into the very neck, you can see there is liquid there.


----------



## Mario Dinis

sour_grapes said:


> I'm not John, but I am not seeing any headspace. On a few of them, it looks to me like the light is playing tricks. On those, the reflected light from the top (above where the angle of the glass changes at the shoulder) looks like it is being reflected from the top of a (too-low) level of wine. If you look up into the very neck, you can see there is liquid there.


LOL, you're right. The light fooled me.


----------



## franc1969

It's hard to see with all the reflection and glare.on the glass , but there is only about an inch+ headspace per carboy. If you zoom into the photo, you'll see the lines.


----------



## Johnd

It’s just the angle, they’re all topped up an inch or less under the bung.


----------



## Mario Dinis

Johnd said:


> It’s just the angle, they’re all topped up an inch or less under the bung.


Nice batch.


----------



## BI81

How often do you sample, sulfite and top up once in barrel? I’m assuming ambient temp and humidity influence this?

I’m looking to up my game and do a barrel for the first time next year. Any advice/pointers is appreciated.


----------



## Johnd

BI81 said:


> How often do you sample, sulfite and top up once in barrel? I’m assuming ambient temp and humidity influence this?
> 
> I’m looking to up my game and do a barrel for the first time next year. Any advice/pointers is appreciated.



You’re correct, it’ll depend a lot upon your storage environment. Mine is in 55F and 70% RH year round, I try to top / sulfite monthly. Tasting is much less frequent.


----------



## BI81

Thanks @Johnd


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## ceeaton

Johnd said:


> You’re correct, it’ll depend a lot upon your storage environment. Mine is in 55F and 70% RH year round, I try to top / sulfite monthly. Tasting is much less frequent.


You can tip that carboy just before sulfiting, works like a charm every time!

Seriously, just read through this thread, sounds like a lot of fun and very educational. Kudos @Johnd!


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## Johnd

Enough procrastinating already..... This Sunday is the day for the '19 blend, will be getting together with @Keith5 to do some barrel prepping, wine tasting, blending trials / tasting, and ultimately get the '19 blend into the new 60 gallon barrel. Once those 10 carboys are empty, we'll unload the '17 wine from the 30 gallon barrel to sit a bit before bottling. The 30 gallon barrel, which I'm sure is neutral by now, will be loaded with some sort of TBD '19 blend as well. Should be a good day, will try to take / post some pics of our escapade......


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Enough procrastinating already..... This Sunday is the day for the '19 blend, will be getting together with @Keith5 to do some barrel prepping, wine tasting, blending trials / tasting, and ultimately get the '19 blend into the new 60 gallon barrel. Once those 10 carboys are empty, we'll unload the '17 wine from the 30 gallon barrel to sit a bit before bottling. The 30 gallon barrel, which I'm sure is neutral by now, will be loaded with some sort of TBD '19 blend as well. Should be a good day, will try to take / post some pics of our escapade......



Got to admit I procrastinate all the time when it comes to blending, especially a Meritage and using so many wines. It should be fun but my taster just doesn't know what a wine needs to improve or what another will offer. Then sometimes I'll do bench trials with the individual wines and make adjustments before blending. So for me, more often then not, it's a crap shoot because I'm usually too drunk to make a proper decision. Hope yours goes more smoothly and you have a better taster. Let us know what your percentages are.


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Got to admit I procrastinate all the time when it comes to blending, especially a Meritage and using so many wines. It should be fun but my taster just doesn't know what a wine needs to improve or what another will offer. Then sometimes I'll do bench trials with the individual wines and make adjustments before blending. So for me, more often then not, it's a crap shoot because I'm usually too drunk to make a proper decision. Hope yours goes more smoothly and you have a better taster. Let us know what your percentages are.



You're not alone, my taste buds go numb with enjoyment a few sips into the whole ordeal. I probably never come out with the best possible blend, but have a hell of a time trying to figure out what it is..................


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## Johnd

Just finished building the rolling barrel holder for the new barrel, it’s stout. Made from 2” x 4” (actual dimensions) red oak, assembled with 5/16” x 3-1/2” lag bolts, and 275# rated casters. At a finished weight of 550 - 600 lbs, can’t cut any corners.


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## Johnd

Looks like the old gal is gonna fit pretty nicely into her new digs........



Time to see what she looks like.......


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## Johnd

Everything looks to be in pretty good order, really looks good, and smells even better, couldn’t believe the smell once I started cutting through the shrink wrap. 

This is my first chateau ferre style barrel, which has 22 mm staves and head as opposed to 25 mm. I believe I read that the crossbar on the heads provides a little stability insurance to the thinner heads. They are preferred for use with Bordeaux style blends, allow a bit more microx, and soften tannic notes in those blends effectively, in addition to their wonderful oaky taste additions. Can’t wait to get it filled up tomorrow for a long sit.


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## Ajmassa

Kickin ass over there! Heading down the wine room myself right now. Lots of work to do. Cleaning, Blending, bottling. Getting some nice blends going with the “operation Massa family red” 

Good luck today. And most importantly - have fun! (Kinda hard not to)


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## CDrew

Definitely have barrel envy right about now.


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## Chuck E

Getting my little guy ready


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## mainshipfred

Chuck E said:


> Getting my little guy ready
> 
> 
> View attachment 58215



Make sure to tighten the hoops really good.


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## Johnd

Some boiling water on both heads.....


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## Johnd

Boiling water soak for the inside, followed by a cool water rinse, a few gallons of strong sulfite solution inside, cool water bath for the outside, she’s ready to fill tomorrow!!


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## stickman

Yea, the barrel looks very nice, it should help make some good wine. Your weather doesn't look bad either, meanwhile it's snowing out here.


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## Johnd

stickman said:


> Yea, the barrel looks very nice, it should help make some good wine. Your weather doesn't look bad either, meanwhile it's snowing out here.



funny how that weather thing is.......we were under tornado / high wind / hail warnings at 8 AM this morning, and the weather was very rough. By the afternoon, things have really shaped up!!


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## Boatboy24

Well done, John. I can see you guys are slightly into good coffee as well as wine.


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> Well done, John. I can see you guys are slightly into good coffee as well as wine.



LOL! I knew when I posted that pic that somebody would hone in on that coffee maker! Got that for the Mrs. a few months back, I’m not much of a coffee fanatic, but she is. Admittedly, I like the darn thing, and it makes a wide array of styles. Grinds the beans to your liking, makes coffee, Americano, espresso, etc., and even has the milk / steam frothing function. We’ve gotten pretty attached and don’t use the Keurig very much any more.


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## mainshipfred

Quite an impressive piece of equipment. Does it do single servings without using the espresso like the Keurig?


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Quite an impressive piece of equipment. Does it do single servings without using the espresso like the Keurig?



Pretty much everything it does is single serving, you just tell it what you want and how big of a serving, and how strong. It grinds the appropriate amount of beans into a container, you pack the grinds with a lever, then push the button to start the process.


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## Johnd

Had quite the productive wine day. @Keith5 came over and we tasted all of the wine varietals / yeast variations, and did some blending trials. As expected, the wines were green, very fruity, rather tannic, a little astringent, lots of promise. After settling on our blend ratio for the 60 gallon barrel, we took a short recess to cook and eat some venison sausage and cheese before tackling the big work. It helped knock the buzz back a bit.....

The blend was decided to be 50% Cabernet Sauvignon (some press, some free run, with both BM 4x4 and D254), 30% Merlot (BM 4x4 & D254), 10% Cabernet Franc & 10% Petit Verdot. Just a little manual labor from there.



10 carboys and lots more tasting later, it was nice to be done!


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## Johnd

After the 60 gallon barrel was loaded, we unloaded the 2017’s from the 30 gallon barrel using my brand new AIO, worked like a champ @vacuumpumpman !!! We went with a blend a little heavier on the CF and PV side, with them each at 20%, and Merlot / Cabernet Sauvignon making up the other 60%. 

now to figure out the leftovers........one carboy each of cab, merlot, and petit verdot.


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## CDrew

Johnd said:


> now to figure out the leftovers........one carboy each of cab, merlot, and petit verdot.



Looks like a good day.

MAybe blend them together in a 15 gallon keg, and dispense with argon to top your barrel. Whatever is left at the end is your "field blend" .

Just out of curiosity, what do you use to top off?


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## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Looks like a good day.
> 
> MAybe blend them together in a 15 gallon keg, and dispense with argon to top your barrel. Whatever is left at the end is your "field blend" .
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what do you use to top off?



Normally, I just bottle a carboy and use the bottles to top off. Bottled 8 today with leftovers, bringing my topping reserves to just 16 bottles, not enough for a 60 for a year and a 60 & 30 for 2 years. One of those carboys will be bottled for topping, prolly the the cab.


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## mainshipfred

Johnd said:


> Had quite the productive wine day. @Keith5 came over and we tasted all of the wine varietals / yeast variations, and did some blending trials. As expected, the wines were green, very fruity, rather tannic, a little astringent, lots of promise. After settling on our blend ratio for the 60 gallon barrel, we took a short recess to cook and eat some venison sausage and cheese before tackling the big work. It helped knock the buzz back a bit.....
> 
> The blend was decided to be 50% Cabernet Sauvignon (some press, some free run, with both BM 4x4 and D254), 30% Merlot (BM 4x4 & D254), 10% Cabernet Franc & 10% Petit Verdot. Just a little manual labor from there.
> View attachment 58240
> 
> 
> 10 carboys and lots more tasting later, it was nice to be done!
> View attachment 58241



Why don't you use the AIO to fill the barrel. Could it be you don't have a large enough drilled bung?


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## Johnd

mainshipfred said:


> Why don't you use the AIO to fill the barrel. Could it be you don't have a large enough drilled bung?



Got all the right stuff, just didn't feel the need to draw a vacuum on the barrel, mostly didn't want to let the wine fall two feet to the bottom. We rolled the barrel into the wine room and had to carry the carboys in as well, just as easy to set them on the counter, and with the head distance, they siphon over as fast as or faster than they vacuum over. Dropping the racking hose down into the barrel provides a nice, smooth, agitation free transfer.

Used the AIO to siphon the wine out of the 30, it was on the ground and I had no desire to pick it up, worked like a charm. I've been using vacuum pumps to move wine for years, so it's not new hat for me, I'm mostly looking forward to bottling with it, as I don't use my old vacuum pump for bottling. 

It's a gentler vacuum, easier to control, and a bit quieter than my big pump.


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## Johnd

As we racked & sulfited our way through the barrel loadings last Sunday, wasn’t sure if ny supply os SO2 would last, it was down to the wire with a couple grams to spare. Ordered some regular old KMeta powder, plus a box of Inodose Granule packets in the 2g and 5g size. Not a lot of instructions, so I’m assuming that after determining the desired dosage, you just dump the appropriate number of packets into the barrel. Any other “best practices” would be welcome.


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## CDrew

Your dosing numbers look right. I just dump them in-they dissolve themselves.

Most recently, I let the bubbles as they dissolve fill the headspace in the neck of the tank, and then placed the seal. So pretty sure all the oxygen was eliminated. Whether this is good or bad, I don't know, but it's an experiment. Other than that 1 15 gallon Intellitank, everything else is sealed with one of those silicone flapper stoppers.


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## stickman

I've used the granules and the tablets, even though the bubbles provide some mixing, I always do a light stirring, mainly because I'm never completely off of lees and I want to be sure everything is exposed to the sulfite.


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## Johnd

CDrew said:


> Your dosing numbers look right. I just dump them in-they dissolve themselves.
> 
> Most recently, I let the bubbles as they dissolve fill the headspace in the neck of the tank, and then placed the seal. So pretty sure all the oxygen was eliminated. Whether this is good or bad, I don't know, but it's an experiment. Other than that 1 15 gallon Intellitank, everything else is sealed with one of those silicone flapper stoppers.





stickman said:


> I've used the granules and the tablets, even though the bubbles provide some mixing, I always do a light stirring, mainly because I'm never completely off of lees and I want to be sure everything is exposed to the sulfite.



Everything I'll be dosing is in barrels. Previously, when using sulfite powder, I'd pull 100ml out of the barrel and into a beaker, add sulfite and a mixing bean, and put it on my auto mixer until it was dissolved, and pour it back into the barrels. Sounds like you both do it differently, one mixes the other doesn't. Never thought about pressures created from the bubbles released, and I'm using solid stoppers on the barrels, sounds like I might need to give the gas a few minutes to escape before replacing the bung................


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## stickman

@Johnd I don't do any pre-dissolving, I just add directly to the tank and leave the bung loose until the bubbling stops, I'll then mix the tank lightly before tightening the bung.


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## Johnd

Loaded the 60 gallon barrel last Sunday, so it’s been 6 days, no signs of wine on the exterior, nice!! I normally top up weekly for the first month with a new barrel, so I checked the levels today. It took an entire 750 and wasn’t quite full, standard fare for a new 60, probably continue at that rate for a few weeks before settling into a more reasonable routine.

My two babies......


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## jburtner

Whoa! That barrel drinks almost as much as I do 

Cheers!
-johann


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## Keith5

Identical twins


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## Ajmassa

Hey @Johnd got a question for ya been meaning to ask. Couldn’t find the answer googling. After looking up more info about chateau ferre style barrels I noticed many of them show the mid section wine stained purple. Some darker than others. But always just the mid section. And outside the hoops it’s bare wood. Almost like theyve done it intentionally. Or it’s the result of some specific practice.
It’s clearly from wine. But what’s the story there? 

*edit- As I asked I think I kinda got my answer. Common sense tells me it’s from topping up on a large scale. And they fill until overflowing, plug it and let the wine stain- not concerned with cleaning when ya got 100’s of barrels. Ending up with a multicolored barrel as a byproduct, which havent noticed until after looking up chateau ferre barrels. Just a guess though.


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## stickman

I believe the staining is intentional, can sometimes be done by the cooper on request, this way minor spills and drips from filling and topping are less obvious.


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## Johnd

Even better, they’re stained on purpose, typically painted with a concoction. I read an article that I can’t find now, but it even had a recipe for the midsection staining, it had red wine, coffee, and some other interesting ingredients.

@stickman @Ajmassa , here’s a clip from the article I referred to earlier:


Although there might be other explanations, there are two most common and simple sets of answers. First off, in wineries, to keep the wine sorted between red and white, companies paint the red wine barrels with the red stripe to merely designate red from white wines. The second belief is the barrels are painted red because of aesthetics – and maybe some pride – because the wine is tested by the winemaker occasionally while aging to keep tabs on when the wine is ready. It’s not necessarily a sloppy job but accidents are common.

The casks all come from the cooperage as white oak barrels so the accompanying accoutre mon and painting is usually done at the wineries. The red ‘paint’ is usually a mix of red food dye and/or wine like a Petit Verdot, which is frequently used for blending or adding color to other varietals, especially here in California. Some wineries will add to the paint the actual vintage for that particular wine either from the prior year’s crush, and also note wood stain is also used. Still others use beet, pomegranate or other assorted juices that stain easily.

Occasionally the question is asked, is it healthy that wine is spilled? Couldn’t that create microbial problems? The simple answer is no. We may talk about this at another time.

So, whether the answer is vanity or uniformity, these rationales are the best explanations for why some wine barrels have a red stripe down the middle.


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## Boatboy24

I always wondered about that, and how none of the staining gets beyond the hoops.


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## mainshipfred

There is a food grade product sold for that purpose. A winemaker once told me it's not only for the stains but he does it to regulate the micro oxygenation.


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## cmason1957

mainshipfred said:


> There is a food grade product sold for that purpose. A winemaker once told me it's not only for the stains but he does it to regulate the micro oxygenation.


Regulate the micro oxygenation. I'm not really certain I think a little bit of stain would make that much of a difference, if any.


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## Ajmassa

Wow very interesting. I kinda figured there would be one definite answer here. But sounds like it’s just a “thing” to do and has varying justifications depending on who you speak to. And just kinda becomes part of some wineries routines. Even with the explanation and article reference I’m not satisfied- just more intrigued! Lol


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## Rocky

Given the uniformity of the staining, I doubt it is from spilling or over flow. It appears intentional and how and why are the questions.

Years ago when we made wine at home in 53 gallon whiskey barrels, our "secondary" fermentation was accomplished by filling the barrels to midway up the bug hole (our crude "airlock") and keeping that level up all during that period, usually from mid-October to early December. In pouring wine into the hole some would be spilled but it was never as extensive and uniform as shown in the pictures. Further, I don't know how long wineries keep their barrels but getting that amount of overflow would take many cycles.


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## Johnd

Just doing a little barrel maintenance today, decided to pull a little sample of the 19 to check on the pH, now that it’s settled down a bit. Warmed and shook it up to make sure it was ready, and got a pH of 3.71. Not too shabby, looks like the adjustments in post # 36 held up pretty well through AF and MLF. Before it comes out of the barrel, and is tasting like something drinkable, we’ll get together to check the TA and decide if we need to adjust the acidity. For now, I’m satisfied.


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