# 2018 Harford Vineyard Chilean Grape/Juice Pickup



## ceeaton (Feb 5, 2018)

Appears that Kevin got the website up a little earlier than I remember last year, just got an email. I didn't remember juices from South Africa last year, but I may have been sleep walking through the Spring.

*Dear Winemakers,*


*South African & Chilean Grape / Juice is now live and available for online purchasing!*

*South African Grape expected arrival dates:*

*Pinotage - End of March*

*Cabernet Sauvignon & Syrah - End of April*

*South African Juices / Chilean Grape and Juice expected arrival dates will be emailed out soon.*

*Please get orders in ASAP to ensure availability.*

*To order please click here.*
...


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 5, 2018)

Thought it seemed early.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 5, 2018)

Not early enough for me. I've been checking every other day.


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## ceeaton (Feb 5, 2018)

I look at it as a great opportunity for some raw materials to make some wine and hone some skills. Are they the best grapes I can get, definitely not. Are they the cheap and available in the Spring, yes they are. Can I find anything cheaper for experimentation? Haven't found it yet!

Now, what am I making this Spring? I see juice buckets and grapes in my dreams tonight, as well as a Lombardi trophy...and a bunch of green jerseys.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 5, 2018)

The link is for the harvest outlook for South America. They are experiencing severe droughts. I still can't find any reports on the Chilean grape harvest.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/reuters-america-drought-to-hit-south-africas-2018-wine-harvest.html


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## ceeaton (Feb 5, 2018)

Here's the rest of the email. Sounds like even thought the harvest will be smaller, the grapes are fine:

* 2018 Season Update*

With widespread drought conditions continuing in the Western Cape wineries and viticulturists are predicting a much smaller 2018 crop compared to 2017 – and possibly the smallest since 2005. Despite the fact that the 2018 harvest might be much smaller, vineyards are in a very good condition due to frequent rainfall in October and November, as well as cooler weather up to the end of November. Vineyard growth is generally good and there have been no noteworthy occurrences of fungal diseases or pests thus far. All vineyard preparation is completed with only canopy management left to break out excessive leaves to allow optimal filtered light to reach the ripening bunches. 
 
* South African Wine Grapes 2018*

*Pinotage*

*Breedekloof*

The estate we source from in the Breedekloof received the Novare Trophy for South Africa’s top wine estate for two consecutive years, as well as the competition’s trophy for South Africa’s top terroir producer. This wine award honours the wines which truly portray South Africa’s different wine growing areas. The competition was created to define the various terroir types of the Cape. 

Located in the upper slopes of the Breede River Valley at 820 – 1148ft above sea level, winters are cold with occasional snow until late in Spring. Temperatures during spring are low resulting in slower ripening. Significant temperature variation with warm days ensures good sugar development while the drop in temperature at night preserves the balance of natural acids in the grapes. The grapes coming to the US are planted in deep gravel, stony soil. The Pinotage produced on the estate is intensely perfumed with cedar-toned plums and dark berries, backed by a smooth-textured tannin structure.

*Syrah and Cabernet Sauvignon*

*Stellenbosch: Devon Valley*

This boutique estate with vineyards against the valley slopes has richer Oakleaf and Tukulu soils and the benefit of warm ripening temperatures that come with vineyards situated in a valley.

The Cabernet Sauvignon clone is CS359 (of South African origin and selected for good quality grapes) and the estate wine from these grapes show classic full ripe Cabernet Sauvignon characteristics of deep red ripe fruit, notes of cassis and delicate mint and eucalyptus characters adding complexity. 

The Shiraz clone is SH21 (South African selection selected for good quality grapes and small berries) and vinified grapes produce wine with an intense ruby red, rich concentrated colour and flavours of wild berries and raspberries with hints of pepper.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 5, 2018)

I'm probably going to go in on 3 pinotage. Nervous about it since so far I've been pretty so-so about my wine making but i can't pass this up


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## mainshipfred (Feb 5, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> Here's the rest of the email. Sounds like even thought the harvest will be smaller, the grapes are fine:
> 
> * 2018 Season Update*
> 
> ...



Good find Craig, any luck with Chili?


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## gitmo234 (Feb 5, 2018)

In for two pinotage.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 5, 2018)

gitmo234 said:


> I'm probably going to go in on 3 pinotage. Nervous about it since so far I've been pretty so-so about my wine making but i can't pass this up



Probably going with a Pinotage myself along with a Malbec and either a Cab or Carmenere or both.


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## ceeaton (Feb 5, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Good find Craig, any luck with Chili?


I didn't find that, it fell in my lap. It was part of the email that Kevin and Teresa sent out to announce that the website was updated and "live". If I see any Chile type stuff, I'll post it here. Having more fun watching some video clips of the celebration last night down on Broad St in Phila.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 5, 2018)

Going with an 88/12 Carmenere/Petite Verdot field blend with Chilean grapes. May be my last Chilean - we'll see how it turns out.

@mainshipfred and @gitmo234 : Have you had a Pinotage before? I haven't, but from what I know, it is a 'unique' flavor profile. May want to try one or two before you pull the trigger.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 5, 2018)

i have. Very new world. Unique is true. I could see where huge fans of the traditional may not like it.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 5, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> Located in the upper slopes of the Breede River Valley at 820 – 1148ft above sea level, winters are cold with occasional snow until late in Spring.



If you think those elevation numbers seem oddly exact, they evidently cited "250 m to 350 m" in the original. Sheesh.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 6, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> If you think those elevation numbers seem oddly exact, they evidently cited "250 m to 350 m" in the original. Sheesh.



And now we can all sleep easy knowing how those numbers came to be. #NerdAlert. 

Even tho spring harvest is a little more expensive and potentially lesser quality than fall I still plan on a batch as well. Simply because theres fresh grapes available and I want to make wine. 
Im still brand new to making wine from grapes and I need to take advantage. Just a 6 gal batch. But as Craig said its an opportunity to gain experience and hone the skills. (Plus I bought a crusher and press last month and want to play with my new toys)


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## Johnd (Feb 6, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> (Plus I bought a crusher and press last month and want to play with my new toys)



You’re fooling none of us with your alternate reasoning, you have new toys you wish to play with, own it!!! Seriously though, hope you have a blast crushing and pressing, it’ll be fun.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 6, 2018)

Johnd said:


> You’re fooling none of us with your alternate reasoning, you have new toys you wish to play with, own it!!! Seriously though, hope you have a blast crushing and pressing, it’ll be fun.



Given the scenario you would be no different! I also have a new house -so a new wine room as well. But A lot has to happen between now and then. Like moving my entire setup to the new location- full Demi’s/carboys and all. 
The wine room build won’t be started by then, but the 1st crush will give me great insight on how to maximize the function of the space. As long as I get my gear in and install a utility sink I’ll be ready to rock and roll. 
And I’ll just stall my grape pickup until after boatboy Jim records some accurate so2 levels since our suppliers sell the same grapes! Got a feeling I’ll be skipping so2 at crush again.


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## pgentile (Feb 6, 2018)

I missed out on Pinotage last year 'cause I waited to long to reserve, ended up with SA Cab Sauv instead and was not disappointed. Will do my best to get some this year. I will be getting Chilean grapes again this year despite my malbec issues. I have a Carmenere that is going on two years old, one of my first all grape reds and the only one I didn't put through MLF and it still tastes like a young wine.

@Boatboy24 I like your carmenere/petite verdot blend. Something similar might be my Chilean effort this year

@Ajmassa5983 yeah, you know you couldn't get through spring harvest no matter what the cost without putting your new equipment to some use.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 6, 2018)

I may have to rethink the Pinotage. It appears it is susceptible to VA plus you don't know how it was processed.

http://winefolly.com/review/give-pinotage-wine-taste/


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## Ajmassa (Feb 6, 2018)

@pgentile I know you had problems with the Malbec but I think that’s what I’m going with this year. The guy who sold me the equipment gave me a bottle of 2016 Chilean Malbec made from Gino Pintos grapes and it was outstanding. 
I’ll be reaching out to him to pick his brain on the particulars.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 6, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> I may have to rethink the Pinotage. It appears it is susceptible to VA plus you don't know how it was processed.
> 
> http://winefolly.com/review/give-pinotage-wine-taste/



To me, Pinotage is reminiscent of one of its parents, viz., Cinsault. If you are considering making a Pinotage, you should definitely try a commercial bottle of it or of Cinsault some time. In addition to the descriptors in your nice Wine Folly article, I would add "gamey." It is an unusual taste in a wine. I like it, but it is.... different.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 6, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> To me, Pinotage is reminiscent of one of its parents, viz., Cinsault. If you are considering making a Pinotage, you should definitely try a commercial bottle of it or of Cinsault some time. In addition to the descriptors in your nice Wine Folly article, I would add "gamey." It is an unusual taste in a wine. I like it, but it is.... different.



Thanks, I was going to try a bottle or 2 different ones. You never know how one would fare with the other. I also think Norton is gamey and I like that. Is it similar, that is you are familiar with Norton.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 6, 2018)

pgentile said:


> @Boatboy24 I like your carmenere/petite verdot blend. Something similar might be my Chilean effort this year



https://www.monteswines.com/en/wine_iconos_purple_angel.php#;


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## pgentile (Feb 6, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> @pgentile I know you had problems with the Malbec but I think that’s what I’m going with this year. The guy who sold me the equipment gave me a bottle of 2016 Chilean Malbec made from Gino Pintos grapes and it was outstanding.
> I’ll be reaching out to him to pick his brain on the particulars.



Hey I would normally get right back on the bike, but too many other options out there, as much as I like malbecs. 



mainshipfred said:


> I may have to rethink the Pinotage. It appears it is susceptible to VA plus you don't know how it was processed.
> http://winefolly.com/review/give-pinotage-wine-taste/



I hear you but I want to give SA's signature grape a shot. I had a bottle of Pinotage several months ago that i liked very much.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 6, 2018)

I am going to try a bottle. Being their signature grape is the reason I thought about it in the first place.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 6, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Thanks, I was going to try a bottle or 2 different ones. You never know how one would fare with the other. I also think Norton is gamey and I like that. Is it similar, that is you are familiar with Norton.



No, I am afraid I have never had a Norton.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 6, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> No, I am afraid I have never had a Norton.



I'll have to send you a bottle or 2 but I'm not sure when I am going to bottle. End of the year more then likely.


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## Johnd (Feb 6, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Given the scenario you would be no different! I also have a new house -so a new wine room as well. But A lot has to happen between now and then. Like moving my entire setup to the new location- full Demi’s/carboys and all.
> The wine room build won’t be started by then, but the 1st crush will give me great insight on how to maximize the function of the space. As long as I get my gear in and install a utility sink I’ll be ready to rock and roll.
> And I’ll just stall my grape pickup until after boatboy Jim records some accurate so2 levels since our suppliers sell the same grapes! Got a feeling I’ll be skipping so2 at crush again.



Yes, I too would be yearning to play with my toys, and certainly would! If the grapes are in good shape, not moldy, raisined, or generally poor looking, I don’t ever add SO2, especially to those shipped in SO2, like the Chileans. 
Looking forward to watching your wine room build!


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## ceeaton (Feb 6, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Looking forward to watching your wine room build!


I thought you were coming up here to build his wine room?


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## Johnd (Feb 6, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> I thought you were coming up here to build his wine room?


Whoaaa there big boy!! One was plenty for me, I’m enjoying watching others develop their spaces, and only making small mods to mine!!


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## mainshipfred (Feb 6, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> I thought you were coming up here to build his wine room?


In my day I participated in 3 barn raisings. Put house under roof in one day, a prefab log house over a holiday weekend and a pole building barn with a loft. They were a lot of fun, especially the barn because we had mostly legit carpenters. Tons of hard work but a blast and good food and drink


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## ceeaton (Feb 6, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> In my day I participated in 3 barn raisings. Put house under roof in one day, a prefab log house over a holiday weekend and a pole building barn with a loft. They were a lot of fun, especially the barn because we had mostly legit carpenters. Tons of hard work but a blast and good food and drink


Fred, I'm not calling your skills into question! I just think the two of you together would have the skills and creativity to create one heck of a wine room. Go ahead, create your room and I'll choose between the two of you as to who can have the pleasure of building my room! I do expect a discount, you know...


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## mainshipfred (Feb 6, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> Fred, I'm not calling your skills into question! I just think the two of you together would have the skills and creativity to create one heck of a wine room. Go ahead, create your room and I'll choose between the two of you as to who can have the pleasure of building my room! I do expect a discount, you know...


 I'll pay for your material if you pick mine as the winner


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## Ajmassa (Feb 7, 2018)

Well that was an entertaining last few posts. Careful Fred, I think Craig is baiting you. 
Kinda veered a little off topic but I’ll run with it. Here’s a pic of the existing room and a quick sketch I did at the time. (Cleaned up since the pic) No hard layout plans or anything. But plenty of space to work with. Hoping to at least squeeze in waterproofing and the perimeter walls and mechanical closet by spring. At that point I’ll have to start actually making decisions. Finding the time will be the biggest hurdle. But I know myself, and once I hit it hard I won’t stop.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 7, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Well that was an entertaining last few posts. Careful Fred, I think Craig is baiting you.
> Kinda veered a little off topic but I’ll run with it. Here’s a pic of the existing room and a quick sketch I did at the time. (Cleaned up since the pic) No hard layout plans or anything. But plenty of space to work with. Hoping to at least squeeze in waterproofing and the perimeter walls and mechanical closet by spring. At that point I’ll have to start actually making decisions. Finding the time will be the biggest hurdle. But I know myself, and once I hit it hard I won’t stop.
> View attachment 46269
> View attachment 46270



Looks like you'll have lots of options. Are there any drains beside the washer area?


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## Ajmassa (Feb 7, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Looks like you'll have lots of options. Are there any drains beside the washer area?



I’ll eventually use the washer lines to around the perimeter to wherever the sink ends up being. In the interim I’m just gonna throw a utility sink in the corner there. 
I also have 2 sump pumps. One in the corner hard piped to the storm line and one under the steps hard piped to the soil line. Planning a floor drain and chipping out a channel ran over to one of those. 
The goal would be to do everything down there. Floor drain would make hosing off equipment much more realistic.


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## ceeaton (Mar 14, 2018)

*South African & Chilean Update*
 
* Updated Arrival Dates*

*South African*

*Pinotage Grape - End of March*

*Pinotage orders must be in within next few days*

*Syrah & Cabernet Sauvignon - End of April*

*South African Juice - End of April*
*Chilean*

*White Grape - 3rd week of April*

*Red Grape - 2nd week of May*

*All Chilean Juice - 2nd Week of May*

*More Updates and pick-up times to come*
 


*Please get orders in ASAP to ensure availability.*

*To order please click here.*
 
* Crush & Destem Services*

*$25.00 - Crushing up to 10 lugs*

*$5.00 fee per varietal change*

*Excludes blends with varietals being crushed into same container.*

*$1.00 per lug after initial 10*

*Service by appointment only.*

*Please email to set up appointment.*
 
* Barrels*

*Hungarian Oak / French Oak Recoop Barrels available for purchase.*

*For sizes and stock please email [email protected]*

*Used furniture grade barrels (59 gal) - $195.00 + tax*


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## mainshipfred (Mar 14, 2018)

Thanks Craig, fingers crossed it will only be 2 trips.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 14, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Thanks Craig, fingers crossed it will only be 2 trips.



I think the grapes that are coming from overseas have a greater tendency to arrive in fewer shipments.


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## ceeaton (Mar 14, 2018)

They are at least saying at this point the the juice buckets and the red grape are coming in the second week. Rare that they all come in at the same time, but I think in 2015 they did. So here's crossing my fingers AND toes, Fred!


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## mainshipfred (Mar 14, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> They are at least saying at this point the the juice buckets and the red grape are coming in the second week. Rare that they all come in at the same time, but I think in 2015 they did. So here's crossing my fingers AND toes, Fred!



I would really like to know how they process the juice in a manner to get the color and all the other goodies. What precautions are they taking with the grapes not being processed into juice and how long does the process take. I'm really happy the juice and grapes are coming in at the same time but I was just wondering.


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## gitmo234 (Mar 15, 2018)

I called them and asked if I could get them both at the same time and crushed. Got a call back and was told that if I order, and put that in the comments they will crush/de-stem and freeze the grapes for me so i can pick it up at the same time as the juice. I'm thinking about 2 or 3 lugs of grapes with the juice to add some of that missing feel and color


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## ceeaton (Mar 15, 2018)

gitmo234 said:


> I called them and asked if I could get them both at the same time and crushed. Got a call back and was told that if I order, and put that in the comments they will crush/de-stem and freeze the grapes for me so i can pick it up at the same time as the juice. I'm thinking about 2 or 3 lugs of grapes with the juice to add some of that missing feel and color


I've always held back on a bigger order and try to match the grape arrival time with the bucket. Seems like if they are willing to do that I should order some more grapes!


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## heatherd (Mar 16, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> I may have to rethink the Pinotage. It appears it is susceptible to VA plus you don't know how it was processed.
> 
> http://winefolly.com/review/give-pinotage-wine-taste/


I'll post so those who haven't heard my pinotage tale of woe... I made an all-grape SA Pinotage batch from Harford a couple years ago. Before that, I read about it and tasted several bottles in the name of grueling research.  I found that I really liked the pinotage I tasted and so moved forward. I found articles that talked about a stink and that South Africans will sometime correct by putting a penny in a glass of a stinky one, and it's just an accepted thing. Fast forward through the process, which was exactly the same stuff I always do, and the wine was stinky when I added kmeta to stabilize. I splash-racked and added more kmeta, let it age a year - still stinky. I added Reduless to try and reduce the stink, and ended up tossing the batch after two years.

I'm not saying folks shouldn't try it, just that it's a unique flavor, and one of only two batches I've thrown out in the course of six years of making wine. It might be worth being really proactive on yeast type and nutrients if it's a somewhat stink-possible wine...


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## heatherd (Mar 16, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> I've always held back on a bigger order and try to match the grape arrival time with the bucket. Seems like if they are willing to do that I should order some more grapes!


More grapes are always the solution!


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## sour_grapes (Mar 16, 2018)

heatherd said:


> I'll post so those who haven't heard my pinotage tale of woe... I made an all-grape SA Pinotage batch from Harford a couple years ago. Before that, I read about it and tasted several bottles in the name of grueling research.  I found that I really liked the pinotage I tasted and so moved forward. I found articles that talked about a stink and that South Africans will sometime correct by putting a penny in a glass of a stinky one, and it's just an accepted thing. Fast forward through the process, which was exactly the same stuff I always do, and the wine was stinky when I added kmeta to stabilize. I splash-racked and added more kmeta, let it age a year - still stinky. I added Reduless to try and reduce the stink, and ended up tossing the batch after two years.
> 
> I'm not saying folks shouldn't try it, just that it's a unique flavor, and one of only two batches I've thrown out in the course of six years of making wine. It might be worth being really proactive on yeast type and nutrients if it's a somewhat stink-possible wine...



The other thing is that you should try to use Reduless sooner rather than wait. As the H2S sits around, it is able to form more stable (but still stinky) compounds (dithiols, if I recall correctly). Those are not efficiently removed by copper or Reduless.


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## pgentile (Mar 16, 2018)

heatherd said:


> I'll post so those who haven't heard my pinotage tale of woe... I made an all-grape SA Pinotage batch from Harford a couple years ago. Before that, I read about it and tasted several bottles in the name of grueling research.  I found that I really liked the pinotage I tasted and so moved forward. I found articles that talked about a stink and that South Africans will sometime correct by putting a penny in a glass of a stinky one, and it's just an accepted thing. Fast forward through the process, which was exactly the same stuff I always do, and the wine was stinky when I added kmeta to stabilize. I splash-racked and added more kmeta, let it age a year - still stinky. I added Reduless to try and reduce the stink, and ended up tossing the batch after two years.
> 
> I'm not saying folks shouldn't try it, just that it's a unique flavor, and one of only two batches I've thrown out in the course of six years of making wine. It might be worth being really proactive on yeast type and nutrients if it's a somewhat stink-possible wine...



Will take this into consideration, doesn't change my mind, but will accept it as a challenge. But I feel pretty confident after bringing last years chilean malbec back from the sewer smell to a very drinkable wine with no stink. I know the grape can tend toward acetaldehyde, but from what I have read a ferment on the warmer side will diminish this possibility. Thanks for the info.

I had a petit syrah from a few years ago that had server burnt rubber, I tried the penny trick on a glass or two, but did not feel comfortable with uncontrolled cooper. It amazingly dissipated after a year and got very good.

@sour_grapes think I will have some reduless on hand in case my Pinotage goes this way.[/QUOTE]


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## ceeaton (Apr 27, 2018)

Saw an email this morning, guess most everything is in (except for a few whole grapes from Chile (reds)). Have to go to a memorial service for my Mom's sister tomorrow, so might just as well head South on 83 and hit Harford before it closes. Really looking forward to using my new lawn tractor to do the yard, but I think it's supposed to rain tomorrow. In reality I actually want to see if I have to modify the drink holder on the tractor to keep my beer from getting too frothy.

Once again, another weekend of running around and not doing wine stuff (except starting two new batches). I really need to bottle some wine!


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 27, 2018)

My 1 lug of PV arrived, but not my 9 lugs of Carmenere. Thanks @mainshipfred for grabbing that lonely single lug for me while you were there. I'll return the favor when the Carmenere comes in. I relaxed on the deck w/ a glass of Forza while I destemed the single lug by hand. Then I loaded the grapes into ziplock bags and put them in the freezer to wait for the rest of their little purple friends.


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## ceeaton (Apr 27, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> My 1 lug of PV arrived, but not my 9 lugs of Carmenere. Thanks @mainshipfred for grabbing that lonely single lug for me while you were there. I'll return the favor when the Carmenere comes in. I relaxed on the deck w/ a glass of Forza while I destemed the single lug by hand. Then I loaded the grapes into ziplock bags and put them in the freezer to wait for the rest of their little purple friends.


Yeah, I'm surprised most everything turned up in one shipment. From the email it still sounds like certain items can still be ordered, I was just expecting stuff the second weekend of May. Best laid plans....

Oh, how is your Forza coming along?


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 28, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> Oh, how is your Forza coming along?



Nicely. Still has a tinge of cherry coke though.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 28, 2018)

Grapes were in pretty nice shape. Did not take a brix reading before I got them in the freezer though.


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## ceeaton (Apr 28, 2018)

I'm only getting a couple of buckets and a lug for one of the buckets, but you're image of the grapes reminded me to check my inventory of paint strainer bags. Good to go. Now off on my 4 hour round trip (Newport/Forest Hill/back home).


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## mainshipfred (Apr 28, 2018)

Just used my crusher destemmer for the first time. What a neat piece of equipment. Stems came out as clean as could be. Out of 7 lugs of SA Cab I got about 11-12 gallons of must which I split up into 3 buckets. Really like the readings as well Ph 3.64, SG 1.997 and S02 6ppm. Also crushed 2 lugs of Chilean Malbec about 4 gallons Ph 3.84, SG 1.888 and S02 9ppm. The Malbec I'm freezing for a few weeks and will wait until tomorrow or Monday to pitch the yeast in the Cab which is in my cooler. Each bucket has Lallzyme, Opti Red, Chestnut tannins and a little Peptic Enzyme.


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## ceeaton (Apr 28, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> SG 1.997, S02 6ppm.


Maybe 1.0997? I like the SO2 number.


mainshipfred said:


> SG 1.888 and S02 9ppm.


1.0888? I like that SO2 too!

I put my one lug 'o grapes in a cooler I carry in my car to bring home frozen stuff and milk, etc, from the grocery store. I opened the cooler to check the whole grape temperature, and I could easily smell SO2. I'm glad to hear it isn't as high as I thought it might be, thanks for the numbers, that really helps!


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## mainshipfred (Apr 29, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> Maybe 1.0997? I like the SO2 number.
> 
> 1.0888? I like that SO2 too!
> 
> I put my one lug 'o grapes in a cooler I carry in my car to bring home frozen stuff and milk, etc, from the grocery store. I opened the cooler to check the whole grape temperature, and I could easily smell SO2. I'm glad to hear it isn't as high as I thought it might be, thanks for the numbers, that really helps!



Oops, were did that zero go. Do you think you were smelling the pads. I also rinsed the grapes before crushing.


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## ceeaton (Apr 29, 2018)

Stuff happens with zeros....I think I was definitely smelling the pads. I finally destemmed and crushed the lug I got today. Had a nose full of sulphur, so I think those pads are definitely loaded. How else could they get the grapes to us in decent condition after picking at the end of March? (at least that is the info on the label for my lug)

Edit: my brix was 21.5 (Merlot grapes to pair with a Cab Sauv juice bucket (also added 6 lbs of Dornfelder used skins for some added tannins))

Edit 2: Cab Sauv bucket was at pH 3.72, I can live with that. Riesling bucket was 4.00, not real happy with that one...


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## ceeaton (May 2, 2018)

Moved the Riesling to the basement this morning, about 69*F upstairs (went to 72*F this afternoon), 61.5*F downstairs. Slowed down a bit, but added some Fermaid O this morning, nice even blurping from the airlock (using BA11 yeast on this one). Had as nice of a cap as you can with 18 lbs of Merlot and 6 lbs of used Dornfelder skins (6 gallon Cab Sauv bucket), still about 2 inches thick. Added some Fermaid O to that this morning, no off smells and actually not smelling anything unless I open up the brute. May be a bit low of a temperature for BDX. Expecting tomorrow to be as warm as today (~86*F outside) so inside the house is slowly warming, and should help out the Cab Sauv/Merlot/Dornfelder ferment.


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## pgentile (May 2, 2018)

Did you adjust the Riesling at all or are going to wait for a pH reading after ferment? Seems like a some of the white juice buckets are coming in high in pH. Cab Sauv/Merlot/Dornfelder should be winner. BDX is the yeast you used on it?


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## ceeaton (May 2, 2018)

pgentile said:


> Did you adjust the Riesling at all or are going to wait for a pH reading after ferment? Seems like a some of the white juice buckets are coming in high in pH. Cab Sauv/Merlot/Dornfelder should be winner. BDX is the yeast you used on it?


I waited since I didn't have a good Normal solution for testing the TA (I could use a conversion from testing to see if it was good, but I think it was way too far out of wack since it was over a year old). I've adjusted Pinot Grigio buckets before, sometimes it's great, other times I overdo it (probably hadn't stirred up the bottom sediment (with wine crystals) enough). The Cab Sauv bucket wasn't terrible (3.72) so I just let that ride, was in too much of a hurry to do the right thing. And yes BDX yeast, I used that on my Dornfelder in the Fall of 2015 and I really like how it is progressing. Doesn't seem to need the nutrients as much as RC-212 does.


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## Ajmassa (May 2, 2018)

Messing with juice bucket numbers feels like a gamble sometimes doesn’t it? Could be all out of wack then after AF and MLF somehow in good ranges. And other times FUBAR. Juice bucket numbers are annoying. For years I just added yeast and didn’t test or stress anything. Wine was always decent and aged well. Back when life was simple.


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## Boatboy24 (May 3, 2018)

No word from MD. Are we not going to see grapes this weekend?


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## pgentile (May 3, 2018)

No word on the Carmenere here either.


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## mainshipfred (May 3, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Messing with juice bucket numbers feels like a gamble sometimes doesn’t it? Could be all out of wack then after AF and MLF somehow in good ranges. And other times FUBAR. Juice bucket numbers are annoying. For years I just added yeast and didn’t test or stress anything. Wine was always decent and aged well. Back when life was simple.



Yes, back when life was simple. LOL I beg the question why do we torture ourselves and the only thing I can come up with is because it's fun.


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## Ajmassa (May 3, 2018)

Just gonna piggyback Gino Pinto onto the Hartford thread. Received an email alerting of a change in plan. All Chilean pickups will be tomorrow 8-4 and Saturday 8-5 only.


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## pgentile (May 3, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Just gonna piggyback Gino Pinto onto the Hartford thread. Received an email alerting of a change in plan. All Chilean pickups will be tomorrow 8-4 and Saturday 8-5 only.




Didn't know they were open until 5 on Saturday, they usually close at 12. If the carmenere is in I will be able to pick up around 2pm. I will call them tomorrow..


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## Ajmassa (May 3, 2018)

Not the most detailed email ever.


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## ceeaton (May 3, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Messing with juice bucket numbers feels like a gamble sometimes doesn’t it? Could be all out of wack then after AF and MLF somehow in good ranges. And other times FUBAR. Juice bucket numbers are annoying. For years I just added yeast and didn’t test or stress anything. Wine was always decent and aged well. Back when life was simple.


Only one time when I "messed" with the bucket did it work out better than I thought it would have been without messing with it. I agree, keep life simple, add yeast and some oak, then some MLF on the reds, then taste. If not okay, then test. Simpler the better...

Yes I do test every batch, normally up front, but my bucket wine is made for quicker drinking in most cases. Just learning what each single varietal brings to the table, in a simple way. Then the ones I really like I order a batch of grapes from Cal-ee-fornia, in the Fall.


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## Ajmassa (May 4, 2018)

pgentile said:


> Didn't know they were open until 5 on Saturday, they usually close at 12. If the carmenere is in I will be able to pick up around 2pm. I will call them tomorrow..



Correction on that email and pickup times. I was incorrect. The email was just to notify of their new hours. Sat open to 4 and closed on sundays. 
Orders can be picked up at today through next week.


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## zadvocate (May 7, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Messing with juice bucket numbers feels like a gamble sometimes doesn’t it? Could be all out of wack then after AF and MLF somehow in good ranges. And other times FUBAR. Juice bucket numbers are annoying. For years I just added yeast and didn’t test or stress anything. Wine was always decent and aged well. Back when life was simple.


I was only going to check PH. Then when it came out to be really high I said screw it, these buckets are pre-balanced. (realized that it was from the cold and the acid was laying on the bottom and needed to be stirred up more). I made 4 buckets this year and I decided to have faith in the numbers and will not fully test till they are done.


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## mainshipfred (May 7, 2018)

Not to start huge debate but I'm not convinced juice buckets are balanced like kit juices are. I think it is just the varietal juice. How it's extracted I would like to know.


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## zadvocate (May 7, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Not to start huge debate but I'm not convinced juice buckets are balanced like kit juices are. I think it is just the varietal juice. How it's extracted I would like to know.



I can’t say for sure but that has been my understanding that they balance the juice. Interestingly I noticed on the bucket that it is packaged in Canada. Not sure what that means . Maybe they use flash detente.


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## Ajmassa (May 7, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Not to start huge debate but I'm not convinced juice buckets are balanced like kit juices are. I think it is just the varietal juice. How it's extracted I would like to know.



They are balanced. Admittedly so. But not in the way a kit is balanced. The extract the juice and will balance with small amounts of another appropriate varietal’s juice to get the Brix on target. And they add acid and sulphites as well. The Regina juice buckets give that information printed right on the can. 
And their website also gets into some specifics of the process- tho not crazy specific. Still don’t know exactly how they macerate/extract. I wouldn’t be surprised if they implement some form of flash detentè like @zadvocate said.


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## Ajmassa (May 7, 2018)

http://www.reginagrapejuice.com/about/index.html


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## ceeaton (May 8, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> No word from MD. Are we not going to see grapes this weekend?


 
*Grape & Juice Update*
 


*We will be receiving our final grape & juice delivery tomorrow morning.*

*The following will be arriving tomorrow:*

All Chilean Juice ordered to date.

Website was shut down this morning.

The following Chilean Grape:

Carmenere
Cabernet Franc
Cabernet Sauvignon

 

*Pick-ups will begin on Friday, May 11th at 11:00 AM
Pick-ups for crush & destem orders will also begin on Friday, May 11th at 11:00 AM
Pick-Up Times*

*5/11 - 11 AM - 5 PM*
*5/12 - 9 AM - 5 PM*
*5/13 - 9 AM - 5 PM*
*5/14 - 5/18 - 9 10 AM - 4 PM*
*5/19 - 9 AM - 5 PM*
*5/20 - 9 AM - 5 PM*
 
* Crush & Destem*

We will not be crushing and destemming orders until the morning of Friday, May 11th.

If you would like grape crushed and have not scheduled an appointment please do so by tonight.

Please email [email protected]
*Crush & Destem Pricing*

$25.00 – Crushing up to 10 lugs

$5.00 fee per varietal change

Excludes blends with varietals being crushed into same container

$1.00 per lug after initial 10

*Harford Vineyard & Winery*
*www.harfordvineyard.com*
*[email protected]
443.495.1699*


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## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2018)

I will be there Friday around 11am

@mainshipfred I can pick your Carm up. If you want to meet me at the house later in the afternoon, I'll crush/destem while I'm doing mine. Just bring a bucket.


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## ceeaton (May 8, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> I will be there Friday around 11am


At least the weather looks nice for a long drive.


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## mainshipfred (May 8, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> I will be there Friday around 11am
> 
> @mainshipfred I can pick your Carm up. If you want to meet me at the house later in the afternoon, I'll crush/destem while I'm doing mine. Just bring a bucket.



That sounds great, really appreciate it.


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## Boatboy24 (May 11, 2018)

Got my (and Fred's) Carmenere today. Fred came over this afternoon to help crush. Really great looking grapes. Brix right at 24. My pH meter is suddenly not working after 3 solid years. No complaints, it was $15. New one coming tomorrow, so I'll measure and adjust if needed. I think the grapes are a little light on acid, but don't want to adjust until confirmed with a meter.


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## Ajmassa (May 11, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> My pH meter is suddenly not working after 3 solid years. No complaints, it was $15. New one coming tomorrow, so I'll measure and adjust if needed.



I’ve been wondering about that. I read most electrodes will last 12-18 months with proper care so I’m expecting it soon too. (Secretly hoping it dies so i can justify a sc-300. And a replacement electrode for ph55 is >half $ for whole meter)
Pretty bad timing for it to crap out. At least your able to get one next day. When my 1st cheaper one died I emailed them and they suggested to do an overnight soak in distilled white vinegar. Worked like new the next day.


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## Boatboy24 (May 11, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> When my 1st cheaper one died I emailed them and they suggested to do an overnight soak in distilled white vinegar. Worked like new the next day.



Doing that now. Thanks!


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## Ajmassa (May 12, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Doing that now. Thanks!



It wasn’t a magic cure-all. Just a replacement for cleaning solution I think but safe enough to let it go overnight and really clean it out.


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> It wasn’t a magic cure-all. Just a replacement for cleaning solution I think but safe enough to let it go overnight and really clean it out.



It seems to have worked at least partially. Readings seem to be pretty good. Not locking on the reading in two seconds like it used to, but it gets there.


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2018)

Got the D254 pitched around 6pm yesterday before heading out for the evening. No cap yet, but lots of bubbles this morning. We are off and running. pH came it at 3.9 and I added tartaric, targeting 2.7. We'll see where we end up. 

For those the co-innoculate MLB: I'm going to do that today or tomorrow evening. I've only done it once before, but am not certain on the exact timing - 24 hours after pitching the yeast?


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## mainshipfred (May 13, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Got the D254 pitched around 6pm yesterday before heading out for the evening. No cap yet, but lots of bubbles this morning. We are off and running. pH came it at 3.9 and I added tartaric, targeting 2.7. We'll see where we end up.
> 
> For those the co-innoculate MLB: I'm going to do that today or tomorrow evening. I've only done it once before, but am not certain on the exact timing - 24 hours after pitching the yeast?



Why 2.7 Jim? What's you target goal after MLF?


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Why 2.7 Jim? What's you target goal after MLF?



Would love to be a little lower, but don't want to do too big an adjustment.


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## Johnd (May 13, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Would love to be a little lower, but don't want to do too big an adjustment.



I’m assuming you mean 3.7, but it’s been typed several times????


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2018)

Johnd said:


> I’m assuming you mean 3.7, but it’s been typed several times????



Whoops! You're correct, John.


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2018)

Added opti-malo to the must, then rehydrated the VP41 with Acti-ML and added that a little earlier. 

So far, color extraction has been exceptional. I'm using Lallzyme EX-V for the first time (usually just Lallzyme EX). Gotta remember to go a little easier on the punchdowns, as I've read the EX-V can turn your grapes to mush.


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## Johnd (May 13, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Added opti-malo to the must, then rehydrated the VP41 with Acti-ML and added that a little earlier.
> 
> So far, color extraction has been exceptional. I'm using Lallzyme EX-V for the first time (usually just Lallzyme EX). Gotta remember to go a little easier on the punchdowns, as I've read the EX-V can turn your grapes to mush.



Glad to see you trying co inoculation! I use the EX-V on all of my big reds, it’s exceptional. Using a regular old wooden press basket, have never had any issues with the “break down”. Drain off the free run, load the press and go. Couple of strainers stacked together in the press discharge stream will work wonders to reduce the gross lees in your press juice, just keep swapping them out and rinsing as you press. Little jealous, but waiting til fall, happy fermenting!


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2018)

@Johnd tried the co-ino last fall and liked it. After the trouble I had in 2016 with my Chileans, I want to give myself every advantage I can get.


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## Ajmassa (May 13, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> @Johnd tried the co-ino last fall and liked it. After the trouble I had in 2016 with my Chileans, I want to give myself every advantage I can get.



I’m right there with ya. Used EX-V instead of EX for the 1st time. (By accident too). Eased up on the punches as fermentation was nearing finish. 
I added my mlb in the past right after lag phase. I waited an extra day this time when there was full dry caps. But still barely any sugar consumed yet. Went with Alpha since VP41 was sold out. So far so good


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## Boatboy24 (May 13, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I’m right there with ya. Used EX-V instead of EX for the 1st time. (By accident too). Eased up on the punches as fermentation was nearing finish.
> I added my mlb in the past right after lag phase. I waited an extra day this time when there was full dry caps. But still barely any sugar consumed yet. Went with Alpha since VP41 was sold out. So far so good



Sorry - I bought your VP41.


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## Boatboy24 (May 15, 2018)

Punchdowns in full effect now. I split the batch into two containers because I was concerned about an overflow. By the time I finished punching down the second one, the cap had almost reformed on the first. Added Fermaid O last night. I goofed and put the full dose in, rather than the planned half.


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## ceeaton (May 15, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> I goofed and put the full dose in, rather than the planned half.


What yeasties did you use? They might enjoy the extra food!

I know I enjoy extra food, but my doctor for some reason frowns upon it.


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## Boatboy24 (May 15, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> What yeasties did you use? They might enjoy the extra food!
> 
> I know I enjoy extra food, but my doctor for some reason frowns upon it.



D254


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