# Cloudy after back sweetening



## Digger (Jul 13, 2020)

I made my first batch of dragons blood, exactly by the instructions provided. All went well, the wine cleared up amazing after a week. I racked and back sweetened with 4.5 cups of sugar (6 gallon batch). I stirred it for a couple of minutes with my drill attached whip. I tasted it and it was good so I transferred it back into a 6 gallon carboy. It’s been 3 days now and it’s still cloudy and it looks like sugar on the bottom? Did I not stir it up good enough? How can I tell if it’s sugar or just other sediment at the bottom? Should I rerack and stir more or just leave it to see if it clears? The first picture is the sediment at the bottom and the second is the cloudy wine


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal (Jul 13, 2020)

Digger said:


> I made my first batch of dragons blood, exactly by the instructions provided. All went well, the wine cleared up amazing after a week. I racked and back sweetened with 4.5 cups of sugar (6 gallon batch). I stirred it for a couple of minutes with my drill attached whip. I tasted it and it was good so I transferred it back into a 6 gallon carboy. It’s been 3 days now and it’s still cloudy and it looks like sugar on the bottom? Did I not stir it up good enough? How can I tell if it’s sugar or just other sediment at the bottom? Should I rerack and stir more or just leave it to see if it clears? The first picture is the sediment at the bottom and the second is the cloudy wine



I personally think it's sugar in the bottom, at least from the pic. So I'm just going to make sure I understand completely though...

Before backsweetening, when the wine was clear, you racked off the sediment before adding the sugar, correct?

I personally always add the sugar before letting it clear. My steps at the end of fermentation are to rack off the lees, treat with Potassium Metabsulfite and Potassium Sorbate, add sugar to backsweeten and add clearing agent all right away. My exact steps are:

I use a vacuum pump so I rack off the lees, add the chemicals and rack again, add the sugar and rack again, rack again if the sugar hasn't dissolved, rack adding the first part of the SuperKleer, wait an hour-ish and rack adding the second half of the SuperKleer. It's usually clear within a couple days.

My point is that I usually have to rack twice to get the sugar to dissolve, even with racking under vacuum. That's why I think it's sugar in the bottom of your carboy. If it were me, I would rack again and use your racking cane to gently stir the sugar at the bottom as you do so. You can gently swirl the receiving carboy multiple times during the rack too to keep the sugar from settling on the bottom again.


----------



## Johnd (Jul 13, 2020)

Hard to tell exactly what is in the bottom, but it's gotta be either lees or sugar. If you accidentally transferred some lees in the racking (happens all the time), the good news is that it'll clear up again. Sugar isn't usually very difficult to dissolve, but if it is indeed sugar, then you need to work on getting it dissolved into the wine, and this too will clear up. 

If you keep stirring and just can't get the stuff in the bottom to dissolve, it's probably lees.

Either way, you're on a good trajectory.


----------



## cmason1957 (Jul 13, 2020)

If you have a long handled plastic spoon, you might try inserting the non-spoon end and stirring with that, it should reach down to the bottom and that might help you stir it some. As a side note, I always add the sugar to the bottom of the receiving carboy and rack onto it, once I have about a gallon or so in the receiving carboy, I give it a good shake to help it all dissolve and integrate throughout.


----------



## Digger (Jul 13, 2020)

Thanks for the replies. Yes I racked off the lees before adding sugar in my fermentation bucket. Stirred for a few minutes and then racked to 6 gallon carboy that I’m in now. I’m about to racked it back into fermentation bucket and stir for longer. Should I add more sparkolloid? Will that hurt anything?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal (Jul 13, 2020)

Digger said:


> Thanks for the replies. Yes I racked off the lees before adding sugar in my fermentation bucket. Stirred for a few minutes and then racked to 6 gallon carboy that I’m in now. I’m about to racked it back into fermentation bucket and stir for longer. Should I add more sparkolloid? Will that hurt anything?



I personally wouldn't add more finings just yet. Give it a day or two after you stir it to see if the sugar is really dissolved and then decide on adding more Sparkolloid if it's not clearing. I would go with SuperKlerr or Dualfine instead though if you have it instead of Sparkolloid.


----------



## Digger (Jul 13, 2020)

I don’t have anything else than sparkolloid .I stirred it for a good 10 minutes with a drill and wisk/degasser And back into the 6 gallon carboy. Guess I’ll give it some time


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal (Jul 13, 2020)

Digger said:


> I don’t have anything else than sparkolloid .I stirred it for a good 10 minutes with a drill and wisk/degasser And back into the 6 gallon carboy. Guess I’ll give it some time


Keep us posted!


----------



## Rocky (Jul 13, 2020)

@Digger, am I understanding that you added the sugar directly to the wine without making a simple syrup (2 parts sugar, 1 part water + heat to dissolve the sugar)? In the future, I suggest you back sweeten with this method. The heat completely dissolves the sugar into a clear solution. In your case, you would have needed 2.25 cups of water (18 oz.) which would have had little negative effect on your 6 gallon batch.


----------



## Digger (Jul 14, 2020)

@Rocky the instructions said add the sugar directly to the wine so that’s what I did. Dissolving it first does make sense and I’ll do that next time. This morning I checked it and it looks pretty much the same as yesterday before stirring so at this point, I’m going to assume it’s lees and let it clear out over some more time. I appreciate all the tips and feedback


----------



## KCCam (Jul 14, 2020)

I just add dry sugar like the instructions say. It does take a little stirring with the long handled spoon or swirling the wine when partly full as suggested by @cmason1957 above. I found if you just dump the sugar in it can clump together as a saturated solid lump on the bottom. The drill degassing tool will just make the wine move over the top of the sugar. You need to get right in there with a spoon. But you said you racked onto sugar in your primary, so then you can use the spoon end of the long-handled spoon - much better. @Rocky's suggestion is good too, I just haven't bothered. @Val-the-Brew-Gal sweetens before clearing, but I clear first so I can do my backsweetening bench trials with clear wine. As for more Sparkaloid, in can't hurt to add more, but I would wait a few days, as suggested. Having said that, my most recent Dragon Blood accidentally got stirred up after it was crystal clear. So then I added sugar and stirred it all up. It originally cleared perfectly in 2 days using DualFine. 4 days after stirring it up, it was still a bit cloudy, with almost no sediment. So yesterday I did a test by adding 1 teaspoon (I spelled that out because it is a very small dose) of Sparkaloid to the 6 gallons. Today it is perfectly clear again, with a nice layer of sediment.


----------



## Digger (Jul 18, 2020)

Ok so an update 4 days later. In the pictures it looks pretty clear when I shine a flashlight on it. If you get close and focus on the light beam, you can still see all this stuff suspended in the wine


----------



## Chuck E (Jul 18, 2020)

I'm of the mind to let time take care of the settling. Like they say, winemaking is the perfect hobby for the _procrastinator_!


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 18, 2020)

hum, everyone's different, personally i always add sugar just before i bottle, i use a carboy stirrer, it is a stainless steel rod, with 2 folding plastic wings at the bottom, the plastic wings are replaceable, it goes into a drill, i can dissolve sugar very quickly in my wine, check SG and taste as i go,when all suits me, i bottle right then and there,
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 18, 2020)

Rocky said:


> @Digger, am I understanding that you added the sugar directly to the wine without making a simple syrup (2 parts sugar, 1 part water + heat to dissolve the sugar)? In the future, I suggest you back sweeten with this method. The heat completely dissolves the sugar into a clear solution. In your case, you would have needed 2.25 cups of water (18 oz.) which would have had little negative effect on your 6 gallon batch.


i've never used simple syrup, just dry sugar, and stir with a drill, 
Dawg


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal (Jul 19, 2020)

Digger said:


> Ok so an update 4 days later. In the pictures it looks pretty clear when I shine a flashlight on it. If you get close and focus on the light beam, you can still see all this stuff suspended in the wine



I often judge whether my wine is clear enough and ready to bottle by testing to see if I can clearly read a paper through it. Even when my wine looks beautifully clear, I can see what looks like suspended particles in a flashlight beam but I have never found that it causes sediment in the bottle. However, I do have a cheap little Vinbrite filter that I run my wine through before bottling, which gives it a nice polish and removes the stray bits of any remaining particles.


----------



## Digger (Jul 27, 2020)

Well I finally bottled the wine after Running it through a vinbrite filter and very happy with the way it turned out. Already planning another batch after family started taking the bottles after trying it.


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 27, 2020)

Digger said:


> Well I finally bottled the wine after Running it through a vinbrite filter and very happy with the way it turned out. Already planning another batch after family started taking the bottles after trying it.


um 38th cousin where be mine? lol
Dawg


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal (Jul 27, 2020)

Digger said:


> Well I finally bottled the wine after Running it through a vinbrite filter and very happy with the way it turned out. Already planning another batch after family started taking the bottles after trying it.



So glad that everything turned out great  It looks awesome!

I really like my Vinbrite even though it can be a challenge to find filters at times. I bought 2 packs of 5 on Amazon a while back for $27. When I went to reorder, the price had gone up to $46! Thank goodness I found some on a homebrew site for a reasonable price.


----------



## DizzyIzzy (Jul 28, 2020)

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I personally think it's sugar in the bottom, at least from the pic. So I'm just going to make sure I understand completely though...
> 
> Before backsweetening, when the wine was clear, you racked off the sediment before adding the sugar, correct?
> 
> ...


Val, wouldn't using simple syrup eliminate the issue of dissolving/not dissolving sugar? Your thoughts?................................Dizzy


----------



## DizzyIzzy (Jul 28, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> hum, everyone's different, personally i always add sugar just before i bottle, i use a carboy stirrer, it is a stainless steel rod, with 2 folding plastic wings at the bottom, the plastic wings are replaceable, it goes into a drill, i can dissolve sugar very quickly in my wine, check SG and taste as i go,when all suits me, i bottle right then and there,
> Dawg


Dawg, I thought the recommended procedure was to wait for a week after backsweetening to bottle to reduce the risk of re-fermentation? Am I wrong in that?...............................Dizzy


----------



## KCCam (Jul 28, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Val, wouldn't using simple syrup eliminate the issue of dissolving/not dissolving sugar? Your thoughts?................................Dizzy


It certainly would. It adds a tiny bit more volume (if you don’t like topping up with water, you might not want to add water this way either), and I just find it to be a pain, and quicker and easier to stir in the sugar.


----------



## KCCam (Jul 28, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Dawg, I thought the recommended procedure was to wait for a week after backsweetening to bottle to reduce the risk of re-fermentation? Am I wrong in that?...............................Dizzy


I’m not Dawg (though when I grow up, I want to be just like him ), but he likes it when I answer for him, right @hounddawg? Hahaha. You are not wrong DizzyIzzy, but Dawg makes so much of this, he knows exactly how it will go. He’s also left it in the carboy much longer than most, probably, so he knows it’s done fermenting. *Plus *I’m sure it is long gone before it has a chance to do anything bad. Did I get that pretty close Dawg?


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 28, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Dawg, I thought the recommended procedure was to wait for a week after backsweetening to bottle to reduce the risk of re-fermentation? Am I wrong in that?...............................Dizzy


that is correct, but i clear mine, bulk age, then before i bottle i add potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate. add dry sugar stirring with a carboy stirrer, then bottle. you are correct on the procedure, but at my own risk i bottle at sweetening, which is a bad habit, and i have no doubt i will pay the piper someday,
Dawg


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal (Jul 28, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Val, wouldn't using simple syrup eliminate the issue of dissolving/not dissolving sugar? Your thoughts?................................Dizzy



Yes, that definitely would eliminate the issue!


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 28, 2020)

KCCam said:


> I’m not Dawg (though when I grow up, I want to be just like him ), but he likes it when I answer for him, right @hounddawg? Hahaha. You are not wrong DizzyIzzy, but Dawg makes so much of this, he knows exactly how it will go. He’s also left it in the carboy much longer than most, probably, so he knows it’s done fermenting. *Plus *I’m sure it is long gone before it has a chance to do anything bad. Did I get that pretty close Dawg?


we be twins,,,
K-Dawg


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 28, 2020)

just signed on been reading i think i'm caught up, lol
Dawg


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal (Jul 28, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Dawg, I thought the recommended procedure was to wait for a week after backsweetening to bottle to reduce the risk of re-fermentation? Am I wrong in that?...............................Dizzy



I'll answer for Dawg too 

Actually I'll share my method...I add potassium Metabsulfite and sorbate, backsweeten and add finings all on the same day. Then I let it clear for however long that takes (usually around a week), then rack, filter, and bottle all on the same day.


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 28, 2020)

since i age everything including skeeter pee, albeit at different lengths of time, that allows me to be sure of ferment end, and i do not use a wine whip, i use a stirrer that dissolves the sugar for sure every time i add sugar, which without a proper degassing will cost you instantly. 
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 28, 2020)

when i add sugar everything is done bulk aging, wine is polished , degassed everything, my pump is set up to filter every racking,, of course the vacuum degas's at every rack as well, and my bottle side filters as well, all on top of using time, patience, AKA bulk aging
Dawg


----------



## KCCam (Jul 28, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> we be twins,,,
> K-Dawg


Ummmm, like I said, I don’t believe anything Dawg says. *We look nothing alike! *I am *far* more handsome than he. Hahaha. You’ll have to take my word for it.


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 28, 2020)

KCCam said:


> Ummmm, like I said, I don’t believe anything Dawg says. *We look nothing alike! *I am *far* more handsome than he. Hahaha. You’ll have to take my word for it.


KC is right we are polar opposites,
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg (Jul 28, 2020)

there are more ways to craft your wine then can be counted, the trick is to learn from others mistakes, yet that still leaves more ways ,,than can be counted, shucks i'm like a duck i wake up in a new pond every morning, i by bulk aging eliminates, in my narrow mind, KCCam got most of the brains, i don't craft a wine, then want it bottled soon, i make skeeter pee two fold, sleep & kinda quick drinker, yet since i let it age for a few weeks, well that's why i got 10 cases of skeeter pee behind my recliner . 
Dawg


----------

