# Fermentation Temp??



## vscottcolorado (Oct 5, 2010)

Anyone have a qucik way to cool fermentation temp down on 3-20 gallon fermentation vessels? Grapes are Cab, Zin, and Shiraz. Temps running 83-86


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## Dean (Oct 5, 2010)

sanitize 2L soda bottles with labels removed, and fill with water, then freeze them. Use them as "ice bombs"


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

Yep, ice bombs, (which take time to prepare) or wrap a wet beach towel around your primaries and turn a fan on it for a quick evaporative cooling effect. Should work great in Colorado esp this time of year.


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 5, 2010)

Do you think these temps are 2 high for the first few days?


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

They are definitely higher than my 78 for 2 days but not out of line for what I have read about for fermentations out in CA. Some people claim you want those higher temps to get a better color extraction.

I wouldn't worry but would try and cool it down a few degrees say ~80.


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 5, 2010)

Thanks Mike! How are yours coming along?


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

You could also run out and get a couple bags of ice and then double or triple bag them in garbage bags (in case of leakage). You wouldn't want the ice to melt and dilute your must for sure.


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

Pretty well. I did a final adjustment on the chemistry a few weeks ago and its holding well. Was probably seeing MLF messing with things. I added 40 gms Tartaric and got the pH right at 3.6 and TA is 8.0 G/L. 

They have really settled down, have a wonderful fruit aroma. They dropped more sediment when the pH got lowered and I need to finish racking that off and then its into the Vadai for a nice Hungarian Oak bath!


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## robie (Oct 5, 2010)

Hey Scott,
I wouldn't think that 82 to 86 actual must temperature during heavy fermentation is that high. I should ask, though, how active is the fermentation? You got your fresh grapes Saturday, so when did you pitch the yeast?

I really enjoyed helping out at the crush, Saturday, even though I didn't get any grapes, myself.

I envy you; wish I had ordered a couple hundred pounds, especially after tasting your Cab from fresh grapes, which you made just last year. I have yet to taste anything from any of my kits that compares to your one-year old cab and to think what it will be like by this time next year.

Congrats, my friend.


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 5, 2010)

It was great seeing you on Saturday and thanks for again for your help! There are a few bottles already with your name on them!!! Pitch the yeast on Sunday. Used BDX yeast on the Cab and Shiraz and D-80 on the Zin. Opti Red as well as Lallzyme EX prior to pitching. Did a stater with Go-Ferm and added someFermaid-K last night.Things are cooking extremly well. Thinking about picking up a test kit and doing my own testing on acid. Punching the cap 4-5 times a day since yesterday. The Cab is producing a much tighter cap. Punch it and 5 mins. later shoved up again. I'll be calling when I pich up the test kit



!


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

Lower 80's is the happy spot for fermenting reds. 

Once you leap towards higher 80's then you can add heat in as a stress factor on your yeast. 

One more thing, steady temps are always preferred to wild swings when dealing with yeast.


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

Oh, and we want pics or it never happened!


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## grapeman (Oct 5, 2010)

I think your temps are in a pretty good range for those varieties. By the time you prepare the ice bombs, you will have slowed down and the temps will be perfect. If you were after a really high fruit forward wine, you would want to be fermenting slower at lower temps. The Brutes help get the temps in that range you have but aren't so big as to create too high of temps. Sounds like you have everything pretty well prepared and under way!


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 5, 2010)

Thanks all...Movedcontainers off the counter onto the floor, concretewhere it is64 degrees. will wait until am and see if temp drops some before ice bombs.
With roughly 325 lbs of grapes (Cab, Zin &amp; Shiraz) going, a WE Chocolate Raspberry Port, 6 Gallons of Sauvignon Blanc Juice, it has almost become a full time job keeping up on everything.
Thanks again


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

A very fun "full time" job none the less!


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## robie (Oct 5, 2010)

vscottcolorado said:


> With roughly 325 lbs of grapes (Cab, Zin &amp; Shiraz) going, a WE Chocolate Raspberry Port, 6 Gallons of Sauvignon Blanc Juice, it has almost become a full time job keeping up on everything.
> Thanks again



Do I feel sorrow for you...
Not!!!

Nah, bet you are having a ball... enjoy yourself, my friend.


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## AlFulchino (Oct 5, 2010)

Mike you said :"..... Was probably seeing MLF messing with things. . 
.." and "I need to finish 
racking that off and then its into the Vadai for a nice Hungarian Oak 
bath!"

make sure the mlf is done or the bacteria can get into the wood and cause something you may or may not want down the road


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## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2010)

Sounds good, I haven't seen any bubble activity in several weeks now and I did not add any Malo bacteria as I already had a high pH, low TA juice to start with. Didn't want to move it further that way for sure. 

Its clear and seemingly very gas free, much more so than any kit and I have not added any fining agents. Tonight I ran a free SO2 test and got 3 ppm so I added my first shot of sulfite. I have not degassed as it doesn't really seem gassy at all.


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## Wade E (Oct 6, 2010)

Are you going to do a malo test?


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## ibglowin (Oct 7, 2010)

Wasn't planning on it. I would need to pick some test kits up. Will give it a good taste and see how its feels in the mouth.


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 7, 2010)

Well 1 day on the floor or maybe the help of fermentation slowing a bit but temp on all 3 down to 78-79.  If you could chime in with any thoughts on adjusments other then sugar it would be greatly appreciated.
Cab: Starting SG 1.102, PH 3.5, TA 6.3,  Zin: SG 1.095, PH 3.3, TA 6.6, Shiraz: SG 1.10, PH 3.7, TA 6.2.
Thanks


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## ibglowin (Oct 7, 2010)

I wouldn't mess with anything. Those will slide as fermentation progresses. Any adjustments could easily be made on those numbers by topping off with a similar wine with chemistry numbers that are higher or lower depending on what you need after all is said and done. 

The Shiraz is the only one with a slightly high starting pH and that should bump even higher with fermentation. I think you should be able to find a blending wine with a lower pH to pull it back down a notch or two.

Temps dropped fast. Its better to have the high temps early in the fermenation process and get it over with and then ease back down (just like your doing)

Looking good!


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 7, 2010)

I was just a little concerned with the Shiraz. Thanks for your input


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## Wade E (Oct 7, 2010)

I probably would have left all alone except for the Shiraz also and added tartaric to raise the Ta and drop down the PH myself.


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 11, 2010)

Well pressed everything on Saturday. Everything yielded just a little over 6 gallons on juice with the exception of the Cab and it yielded almost 7 1/2 gallons. I guess the foot under the scale thing does work.


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## robie (Oct 11, 2010)

Looks really good, Mike.

Look at Wade's post just above concerning raising TA lowers PH.


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## ibglowin (Oct 12, 2010)

Yep, thats exactly right.





Your adding acid which will of course increase the TA. The acid will release a (H+) proton which is what your measuring in pH. 

Remember in pH, lower numbers are more acidic (0-7), higher numbers are more basic (7-14)


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## ibglowin (Oct 12, 2010)

Scott,

Looking good!


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 12, 2010)

to late to add some tartaric acid?


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## ibglowin (Oct 12, 2010)

They say you should make the adjustments before fermentation.

Winemaker Mag has a great article on just this subject.

I balanced mine after the fact as I was learning things as I went on these first two batches. I know exactly how much and how to get it right off the bat for next time though! Time will tell how they turn out.

Your numbers on the Shiraz were not off all that much. Have you taken a recent pH/TA reading to see how much they have shifted?


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 12, 2010)

going to today. I think the Shiraz is the only one that may need a little help, but going to test all. Did you do a MLF on yours or just stabilize?


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## ibglowin (Oct 12, 2010)

Did not really want an MLF since my numbers were so off to start out. Did not add any Malo and never really saw any fermentation after the first 2 weeks really.

I added quite a bit of Tartaric (post fermentation) and it balanced out at 3.6 and 8.0 g/l. 

Next time I should be able to dial it in with no trouble pre fermentation.


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 12, 2010)

Did you add any K-Meta or sorbate?


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## ibglowin (Oct 12, 2010)

Added some k-meta when crushed as usual. Then just added the first "post fermentation" dose last week that brought it up to 50ppm.

No sorbate.


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## vscottcolorado (Oct 12, 2010)

I just finished reviewing your post from your trials, I can't believe I missed it. Great Job by the way!!!!



I only wish I had the 1/2chemistry background you had. One more question... I racked off the gross lees yesterday after press on Saturday. Again I have 1 1/2" of sediment on the bottom. Top layer looks like fines which I understand are ok if you are going to do a MLF, but the lower 2/3rds. look heavy to me. Would you rack off again?


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## ibglowin (Oct 12, 2010)

You might have waited an extra day or two for the first racking to get more gross lees off but it should be OK either way. If your going to do an MLF then you want a bit of lees.

I did my first racking 3 days after pressing. Then did a second one after I adjusted my wine post fermentation which was about 5 weeks later. 

When I lowered the pH with the tartaric I had a boatload of stuff drop out almost like it was fined. Both wines are ink black and look really clear without adding any fining agent at all. 

I just have a very fine coating on the bottom of the carboy right now.


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