# CLOUDY WINE AGAIN



## TNFISHRMAN (Nov 13, 2005)

I have a batch of Blackberry that I started back the last of August. Fermentationwent really well and let ferment until .991 SG. with no problems. I racked from the primary at a SG of 1.012 and let stay in the Secondary vessel until the SG was .991 . After fermentation had stopped and wine had cleared a great deal. I racked again to another glass carboy I stirred with the Fizz-x for a good while. I thenadded sparkaloid. It cleared beautifully. I then filtered with the Buno Vino Mini Jet and #2 medium filter pads. The wine was stillbeautifully clear after filtering. I added 16 oz. of Wine Expert Wine Conditioner which has the Potassium Sorbate in it and 1/4 tsp. of Sodium Metabisulfate. I then added 48 oz of Liquid invert Sugar syrup from my syrup recipe. I noticed that after adding the Wine Conditioner w/Sorbate, the Na-Metabisulfate and the extra sweetening syrup that the wine is Cloudy like with a pectic haze from the way I have heard it described. It looks a lot like the Plum wine that I saw that someone was having problems with. It has been three days and has not cleared any at all. The other times this has happened I added Super Kleer KC and then filtered one more time and bottled and those wines stayed brilliantly clear.


Could I be doing something wrong in the addition of the wine conditioner,Na-meta.and syrup. When I stirred these last ingredients in, I stirred vigorously. Could I be stirring air in to the wine during these last additions causing my cloudiness problems? Any help appreciated so that I can stop this problem that brings a black cloud over my head every time I am ready to bottle. 


Also, just for information sake I had a Wine Expert Mezza Lunna Red kit that I followed the instructions on and is ready to bottle. I filtered it and want to bottle 1/2 the batch dry and 1/2 sweetened to a dessert wine. This Wine stayed clear just like the Blackberry after filtering. I am afraid I will have the same problem when I try to sweeten the Mezza Luna Red. Thanks for any help.


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## Waldo (Nov 14, 2005)

TNFISHRMAN I'm not sure what the problem might be but it sure seems like there is something associated with the addition of the Conditioner and Sugar Syrup since the wine was clear prior to those additions. What type of vessel are you using to make your syrup in? It's possible you may be picking up some type of mineral contanimation here. You might benifit from reading through the Winemaking Problems on Jack Kellers site for a possible solution.


http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/problems.asp


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## MedPretzel (Nov 14, 2005)

Fisherman,





You've stumped me.




(Not hard to do)


My suggestion, but it's just a suggestion: The next time you add conditioner, break your batch up into two separate ones. Do as you normally do on one batch, and on the other one, add each ingredient every couple of days. That way, if you add just conditioner, you'll know it's the conditioner. If it stays clear afterwards, you know it's not that. Then add the Na-Meta. See if it turns cloudy. Then add your syrup. 





Again, this is just a suggestion.



Keep us posted!





Martina


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## masta (Nov 14, 2005)

What is the invert syrup recipe you are using? 


With 16 oz of wine conditioner and 48 oz of syrup this must be a verysweet wine!






What was the original volume of blackberry wine?


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## TNFISHRMAN (Nov 14, 2005)

Its any awefully sweet wine. Like I had said earlier I don't drinka lot of wine. My wife and relatives like to drink it and all of them seem to like it very sweet rather than dry. I don't like really sweet wine I prefer a drier wine. 


The batch size was 6 gallons. Why I chose to add the 60 oz of syrup to sweeten with is I had used 68 oz of syrup on my last batch of BlackBerry and I figured this would put me on the money or close. My wife loved the taste of it and said it was perfect to leave it right like it was. That would roughly be right at 10oz of syrup / gallon of wine.


My syrup recipe is: 


8 lbs. of Sugar


2 pts. of water


1/2 tsp. of Citric acid


1/4 cup of Karo corn syrup (this keeps the syrup from re-crystallizing) 


combine ingredients, bring to a boil slowly while stirring. After it comes to a boil let it boil for 30 minutes. I will actually babysit the mixture and turn the heat down occassionally to prevent any browning of the syrup.


I really feel that my problem lies within my syrup addition. Could it be thatI am stirring the wine to much when adding the syrup? I do really stir it up to get it to mix well, could this be causing some aeriation problem to cause the wine to become cloudy. Anyone have any suggestions on adding the syrup and getting it evenly mixed??


Normally, before bottling I will filter then add the Sorbate and Na or K-meta, and finally add syrup before bottling. No problems.


Waldo, The type of pot I am using is a 2 gallon pasta boiling pot with a non stick coating ( The coating is fine and has not started coming off). That was the only way I knew to describe the pot. 


Next Question for everybody is: What type of Pot should I use for Making the Syrup in????


Martina, I am going to split the Mezza Luna Red Kit 1/2 dry and 1/2 sweetened. My only concern is that I do not have any small carboys all I have are 6 and 6 1/2 gallon. I hate to leave all that head space on top of 3 gallons of wine in a 6 gallon carboy if I have another cloudiness problem. Any suggestions?


I hope I have answered all the questions. I really would like to get this figured out. Thanks for all of you help so far. Lynn


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## MedPretzel (Nov 14, 2005)

TNFISHRMAN said:


> Martina, I am going to split the Mezza Luna Red Kit 1/2 dry and 1/2 sweetened. My only concern is that I do not have any small carboys all I have are 6 and 6 1/2 gallon. I hate to leave all that head space on top of 3 gallons of wine in a 6 gallon carboy if I have another cloudiness problem. Any suggestions?







I'd use the Carlo-Rossi 1-gallon format. But I have a lot of them floating around. Maybe you do too? There are 3-gallon carboys out there, but I'm not sure if you'd want to get them. It might be easier to do so, however. Just my suggestion.


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## AAASTINKIE (Nov 14, 2005)

I put my sulfite, sorbate, fine and sweeten as soon as I'm done in the
secondary, then let sit in carboys till clear and filter and bottle.


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## masta (Nov 14, 2005)

I would agree that adding the all the conditioner and sugar syrup before fining would be the best way to go since you know how much you plan on adding. Then it can clear and you should be ready to bottle.


The conditioner is made to add at bottling with worrying about clouding a clear wine. It must some interaction with the sugar syrup and the wine or conditioner.


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## Waldo (Nov 14, 2005)

MedPretzel said:


> TNFISHRMAN said:
> 
> 
> > Martina, I am going to split the Mezza Luna Red Kit 1/2 dry and 1/2 sweetened. My only concern is that I do not have any small carboys all I have are 6 and 6 1/2 gallon. I hate to leave all that head space on top of 3 gallons of wine in a 6 gallon carboy if I have another cloudiness problem. Any suggestions?
> ...




Not sure if that type of pot could create any problems Lynnbut everything I have read always recommends using glass or stainless steel. Personally, I use an old coffee pot from a now defunct Mr. Coffee to make my syrup in.


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## peterCooper (Nov 15, 2005)

I would add to Martina's suggestion. Add the syrup maybe 12oz at a time 
and leave it a day or two between each.


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## TNFISHRMAN (Nov 16, 2005)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have been in and out of the loop here. I had surgery on my nose and have not felt like getting on the computer to check e-mail and for the replies. I am going to add Super Kleer Kc and let it clarify and the filter again before bottling. I wish I could get the figured out to where it will not do this. Can you agitate finished wine too much and possibly cause it to be cloudy?? Ikeep wondering if it is the way I am stirring in my final ingredients. Thanksagain for any replies.


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## TNFISHRMAN (Nov 20, 2005)

Just needing another answer here. I had added Super Kleer Kc on the 16 and I have not noticed any change in clarity. I know that Super Kleer Kc will not remove Pectic Haze. Could this be Pectic haze??? Could the cloudiness possibly be cured with adding some Pectic enzyme or should I just wait out the Super Kleer?


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## MedPretzel (Nov 20, 2005)

Hmmm... 


Well, personally, I think it's too late to add the pectic enzyme, but you might as well try it. The superKleer should have done something by now. 





I'm currently cold-stabilizing and it seems to be working(!!!), so maybe you might want to try that?


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## Joseph1 (Nov 20, 2005)

Lynn,


I don't think it is a pectic haze since your wine was once clear. Do be sure, you can try this test:
The following test appeared in an Ask Mr. Wizard column in the “Brew Your Own” magazine.Although pectic enzyme is not as effective in the presence of alcohol, I believe it may be the best treatment for a pectin haze. <?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O></O>
<O></O>


To check for the presence of pectin, simply add one part of the wort, beer or wine to one part 70% alcohol. Ethanol and iso-propanol both work. I use iso-propanol (rubbing alcohol) because it’s cheap. This test will cause pectin to gel. When this occurs, the sample becomes cloudy and the pectin begins to precipitate and will eventually settle on the bottom of the sample glass.


Do not return the sample to your wine.


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## TNFISHRMAN (Nov 23, 2005)

Thanks for the reply Joseph I will have to try that and see if it is Pectin. From what everyone says I don't guess it is. Thanks again, Lynn


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## PolishWineP (Nov 23, 2005)

Have you noticed any change in the last day or 2? Martina mentioned the cold stabilizing. That may be something to try once you've waited out the KC and done the pectic test. Keep us posted! I'm very curious about this, it's almost like a soap opera and I want the next episode!


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## TNFISHRMAN (Nov 24, 2005)

I will keep you all posted. I am back to work after Surgery, 12 hours and overtime is killing me. This coming Fridayis supposed to be my 7-day off stretch, but I ended up working 4 shifts. So I'll still be busy. I'll start on it by trying the cold Stabilization. On a side note I am tickled to death, I just found out some of our local Ski Slopes accross the Mountain in North Carolina are open. Ski Beech here I come! I am sure you all would get a kick out of seeingan overweight county boy like me Skiing. I love it. Take Care*Edited by: TNFISHRMAN *


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## PolishWineP (Nov 24, 2005)

Sounds like cold stabilization will be a good place to be if you're on the slopes. Low maintenance. Just be sure you have something in your air lock that won't freeze, like vodka.


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