# ATTENTION JohnT....



## Runningwolf (Oct 5, 2013)

John, the wine fairy stopped by today and asked me to give you* this message* since you can not travel here.

Don't shoot the messenger.


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## dralarms (Oct 5, 2013)

thats funny right there, I don't care who you are.


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## Sammyk (Oct 5, 2013)

Dan YOU are bad! I think Julie should put YOU in the corner.


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## vernsgal (Oct 5, 2013)

someone likes to poke the bear


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## Julie (Oct 5, 2013)

Sammyk, I keep putting him in the corner but he has too much fun there and I have to kick him out!


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## dessertmaker (Oct 6, 2013)

ROFL! owdown: to Dan!


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## JohnT (Oct 7, 2013)

===========================================
Sorry for the last response. The last thing I remember (before 
passing out) was getting a message from runningwolf. My memory
is a bit foggy after that...
===========================================


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## winemaker_3352 (Oct 11, 2013)

That is just too funny!!!


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## Sammyk (Oct 11, 2013)

Thanks Dan our granddaughter loves Welch's so I did print the coupons and mail them to our daughter.


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## WI_Wino (Oct 11, 2013)

Sammyk said:


> Thanks Dan our granddaughter loves Welch's so I did print the coupons and mail them to our daughter.



You printed coupons off of the internet and mailed them? Personally I would have emailed the link to her...


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## Sammyk (Oct 11, 2013)

I was sending her a box of "goodies" and no, it was not wine, they do not drink for religious reasons.


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## dessertmaker (Oct 13, 2013)

Sammyk said:


> I was sending her a box of "goodies" and no, it was not wine, they do not drink for religious reasons.



That is so sad. My family does not drink for religious reasons either. In fact I'm an ordained minister and have to "hide" my drinking and winemaking both from my immediate family and from some people in the church where I minister . 

They would be deeply offended if they knew that I indulge in the wicked and evil practice of winemaking. I guess they would have been deeply offended by Jesus' first miracle as well.... It saddens me that I don't get to share my wine with them. 

Even my water kefir and kombucha raises their eyebrows. 

I've tried to have a rational discussion with a few of them, but they swear Jesus only drank grape juice or that the wine they drank was "less alcoholic" I tried to explain to them that potassium sulfite/sorbate and other preservatives hadn't been discovered yet and neither had pasteurization. 

And also that the technology to brew low alcohol content beverages didn't exist in his time and alcohol was one of the only preservatives they had... It was like I was speaking a foreign language.


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## dralarms (Oct 13, 2013)

dessertmaker said:


> That is so sad. My family does not drink for religious reasons either. In fact I'm an ordained minister and have to "hide" my drinking and winemaking both from my immediate family and from some people in the church where I minister .
> 
> They would be deeply offended if they knew that I indulge in the wicked and evil practice of winemaking. I guess they would have been deeply offended by Jesus' first miracle as well.... It saddens me that I don't get to share my wine with them.
> 
> ...




It's a shame mist people dont know what the bible actually says. Drinking a little 

Wine is not only not a sin at one point one of the passages actualky states to drink wine with your meal to help your stomach (I assume digestion). Also Jesus did state in one instance that they had him labled as a drunkard because he did drink a little wine.

The only way that drinking becomes a sinis if you drink to excess or to cause a fellow believer to stumble.

I'm actually glad to know you are a minister and a wine maker. It shows that you actually read the bible unlike some ive seen that were taught something and continue to spout garbage that is not even in the Bible.


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## dessertmaker (Oct 14, 2013)

dralarms said:


> It's a shame mist people dont know what the bible actually says. Drinking a little Wine is not only not a sin at one point one of the passages actualky states to drink wine with your meal to help your stomach (I assume digestion). Also Jesus did state in one instance that they had him labled as a drunkard because he did drink a little wine. The only way that drinking becomes a sinis if you drink to excess or to cause a fellow believer to stumble. I'm actually glad to know you are a minister and a wine maker. It shows that you actually read the bible unlike some ive seen that were taught something and continue to spout garbage that is not even in the Bible.



Yeah it gets pretty crazy. The church crowd can be so religious instead of relationship oriented like Jesus was. I don't mind telling someone that something is wrong in their life, but I'm probably going to start building a relationship with them based on mutual love and respect first.

And our church isn't one of those weird seeker sensitive churches that refuses to admit that sin and hell exists. We preach sin and redemption. But we don't make people feel like they have to be a part of the "in" crowd and wear a suit and tie to get into heaven.

A lot of the church folk around here (not usually the ones from our church though) will judge and condemn a person for having piercings or a tattoo and wearing jeans. Much less if there's eeevil alcohol involved. The prohibition wrecked this place for decades to come.


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## Sammyk (Oct 14, 2013)

It saddens us the religious route our daughter has taken. Because she is a grown woman with her own family (step kids), we accept it for our only grand child (the only one we will ever have). BUT it does not mean we like it. It is not your "run of the mill" religion either. Enough said!


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## JohnT (Oct 14, 2013)

I am a catholic. Wine is at the center of our most sacred religious rite. Wine represents the blood of Jesus himself. Can't imagine how wine is considered evil. That would be like saying that we are a satanic cult.

One thing that I am sure of... Jesus never drank welches!


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## dralarms (Oct 14, 2013)

JohnT said:


> I am a catholic. Wine is at the center of our most sacred religious rite. Wine represents the blood of Jesus himself. Can't imagine how wine is considered evil. That would be like saying that we are a satanic cult.
> 
> One thing that I am sure of... Jesus never drank welches!




Well, I'll have To give you that .


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## dessertmaker (Oct 14, 2013)

dralarms said:


> Well, I'll have To give you that .



I donno.... The Muslims destroyed all of the Israel's indigenous grape species in the 7th century to keep them from making wine. For all we know they could have all been variations of the concord.


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## jswordy (Oct 14, 2013)

I am a sinner because I drink and get drunk, say some. But I can't hear their judgmental gnashing of teeth because I am sleeping it off.


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## jswordy (Oct 14, 2013)

dessertmaker said:


> I donno.... The Muslims destroyed all of the Israel's indigenous grape species in the 7th century to keep them from making wine. For all we know they could have all been variations of the concord.



Interesting fact about the Muslims surrounding Israel and the Jewish population. They are the most closely related separate races in the world, genetically. It speaks volumes, I think.


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## JohnT (Oct 14, 2013)

dessertmaker said:


> I donno.... The Muslims destroyed all of the Israel's indigenous grape species in the 7th century to keep them from making wine. For all we know they could have all been variations of the concord.


 
concord is of the species Vitis labrusca, native to america. I doubt that they can be found in Israel either in the past or even today.


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## Billberry (Oct 14, 2013)

Sammyk said:


> It saddens us the religious route our daughter has taken. Because she is a grown woman with her own family (step kids), we accept it for our only grand child (the only one we will ever have). BUT it does not mean we like it. It is not your "run of the mill" religion either. Enough said!



Unfortunately, one person's religion is often another person's "cult", but I'm not trying to read too much into what you are saying Sammy.
I'm still looking for "The Church of Latter Day Winemakers" but to no avail.
Sigh! I guess this forum is as close as I will find to it.


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## JohnT (Oct 15, 2013)

Hmmmm. A winemaking church... Just think of the tax benefits!


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## Runningwolf (Oct 15, 2013)

John funny you bring that up. We have a seasonal worker (part time) that is a Lutheran Pastor. He enters the LA Cellar masters competition and does quite well. He actually has one day that he lets anyone from the congregation come to his house and help make the wine. They take turns cranking the press and other duties. Neat idea but I would not have the patience. Once I get started I want to get the job done without all the glamour or drama.


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## jswordy (Oct 15, 2013)

JohnT said:


> Hmmmm. A winemaking church... Just think of the tax benefits!



Why not? They have one for beer drinkers!


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## jswordy (Oct 15, 2013)

JohnT said:


> concord is of the species Vitis labrusca, native to america. I doubt that they can be found in Israel either in the past or even today.



That's right! U-S-A! U-S-A!


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## sour_grapes (Oct 16, 2013)

JohnT said:


> concord is of the species Vitis labrusca, native to america. I doubt that they can be found in Israel either in the past or even today.



Hmmm, unless the Book of Mormon is correct, and the Hebrews that settled North America brought it with them!


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## dessertmaker (Oct 16, 2013)

JohnT said:


> concord is of the species Vitis labrusca, native to america. I doubt that they can be found in Israel either in the past or even today.



AH AH! Not so fast!!!




As you can see by this chart, Welches wine took over the world in pre biblical times. It may do so again! Be prepared!


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## dralarms (Oct 16, 2013)

Oh no, tom won't be able to sleep at night now.


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## JohnT (Oct 16, 2013)

Dessertmaker, 

So, if the book of mormon is to be believed, are you saying that the reason concord wines do not exist in europe is a matter of choice and and not availability?

Gotta like them Europeans, They let their tastebuds decide!


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## jswordy (Oct 16, 2013)

JohnT said:


> Dessertmaker,
> 
> So, if the book of mormon is to be believed, are you saying that the reason concord wines do not exist in europe is a matter of choice and and not availability?
> 
> Gotta like them Europeans, They let their tastebuds decide!



2-day-old message from a recent recipient of Welch's Concord the Super-Sugar Way:

*"We opened the concord wine last night and really!!!!! enjoyed it. It had so much flavor!"*



My tastebuds like concord, but they REALLY like muscadine, scuppernong or Norton (Cynthiana) wine. And these are native grapes. *Buy American!*



I am happy to send you a bottle, John...


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## JohnT (Oct 16, 2013)

JS, 

Since all modern grapes use American Rootstock (to combat phylloxera), wouldn't all winegrapes be considered American?


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## jswordy (Oct 16, 2013)

JohnT said:


> JS,
> 
> Since all modern grapes use American Rootstock (to combat phylloxera), wouldn't all winegrapes be considered American?



Not according to nomenclature. Native to the Mediterranean region, central Europe, and southwestern Asia, from Morocco and Portugal north to southern Germany and east to northern Iran. 

If you graft one rootstock of apple onto another, the fruit is still the original wood stock's apples.


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## winointraining (Oct 16, 2013)

Guys I'm unclear about something , by my way of thinking Welchs is about the same as making a wine kit only a little cheeper, you just add your own chems. I really think there isn't much difference. I would like to offer this up for you guys, next time you do a comp on here make it a base wine of welchs, instead of a kit.


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## dessertmaker (Oct 17, 2013)

winointraining said:


> Guys I'm unclear about something , by my way of thinking Welchs is about the same as making a wine kit only a little cheeper, you just add your own chems. I really think there isn't much difference. I would like to offer this up for you guys, next time you do a comp on here make it a base wine of welchs, instead of a kit.



Oh dear sweet baby Jesus. Somebody please pick John up off the floor and get the smelling salts.


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## Deezil (Oct 17, 2013)

dessertmaker said:


> Oh dear sweet baby Jesus. Somebody please pick John up off the floor and *get the smelling salts*.



This is what we do after John is nominated as Head Judge for said-contest 

Winointraining, the difference in Welches vs low-end kits, is in how they handle the juice... The processes that the juice goes through before its in our hands... Kits, overall, are handled more gently than supermarket juices - I mean this in terms of the heating and filtering of the juice that happens during production.. I'm just barely skimming the surface here... Supermarket juices are handled in a much rougher fashion..


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## JohnT (Oct 17, 2013)

HMMMMMMM.... UGGGGGHHHHH... Huh?? 

What did I miss?


Winointraining, You assume that I like the taste of concord grapes. Sadly, this is not the case. 

I am also sure that there are folks here that spend wads of cash on high end kits that will disagree with you also. 

All of that, however, is unimportant. If you like it, that is all that should matter to you.


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## ffemt128 (Oct 17, 2013)

I can say this, JohnT makes some damn fine wine and it's no welches...


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## winointraining (Oct 17, 2013)

John T , I couldn't agree more, you have to drink what you like! I like concord because I remember it from my youth. To be honest after having tasted chambourcin I now have a new favorite. Thanks to you and the others on here for expanding my horizons.


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## joeswine (Oct 17, 2013)

*My two cents*

To each his or hers own, but for me (thinking out the box) WELCHES,isn't a wine ingredient, I know, I know ,that to some it is and I don't understand why you would want to when you can do the real thing in so many ways, and learn something at the same time about real wine making at it's best or worst depending on how you end up.

WELCHES, is what it is a fruit juice and nothing more, I agree with JohnT,why would you want to waste your time on such a venture you might as well put Welches and everkleer together and call it a day.


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## jswordy (Oct 17, 2013)

^^^^ Doesn't get it. ^^^^


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## winointraining (Oct 17, 2013)

Gee I guess if I put Everclear and pinot noir juice together I get pinot wine. Who'd a thunk it?? lol Thats way out of the box.


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## dessertmaker (Oct 18, 2013)

I am not a wine snob. But if I say ANY of what is on my mind right now, I WILL end up in the corner. Guaranteed.


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## JohnT (Oct 18, 2013)

joeswine said:


> To each his or hers own, but for me (thinking out the box) WELCHES,isn't a wine ingredient, I know, I know ,that to some it is and I don't understand why you would want to when you can do the real thing in so many ways, and learn something at the same time about real wine making at it's best or worst depending on how you end up.
> 
> WELCHES, is what it is a fruit juice and nothing more, I agree with JohnT,why would you want to waste your time on such a venture you might as well put Welches and everkleer together and call it a day.


 
JS, 

You can not have Joeswine back... He is one of us now......

(_one of us... one of us... one of us) _


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