# Chilean harvest 2015 at Harford Vineyard



## heatherd (Feb 8, 2015)

I received the email from Harford Vineyard today that they are taking orders Chilean juice and grapes. Here is the link:
http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/496845/f8057c437e/1568501679/12eaa25220/

There are additional varietals this year, including petite verdot and pinot gris.

I am thinking carmenere and zinfandel.... but I will look at the site to see what they have.

Heather


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 9, 2015)

I was originally going to do Carm/Cab. But now that they are offering Petite Verdot, I may either add some of that, or swap it out with the Cab entirely. I really like Purple Angel, which is a Carm/PV blend.

I'm giving serious thought to ordering some of the South African Pinotage as well. I'm not all that interested in it, but my hope would be that helping Harford get a decent order this year will make it easier for them to source more South African fruit in the future.


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## heatherd (Feb 10, 2015)

Seems like they need a quick response on the South African pinotage. So if you are interested, let them know....


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 10, 2015)

heatherd said:


> Seems like they need a quick response on the South African pinotage. So if you are interested, let them know....



Already did. Thanks Heather!

I think I'm gonna do 4 lugs of Carmenere, and two each of Cab Sauv and Petite Verdot. And hopefully some Pinotage.


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## heatherd (Feb 10, 2015)

I have never tasted a pinotage, but the email from Harford piqued my interest. It's nice that there's a bit of variety in the offering.


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## Droc (Feb 11, 2015)

I'm not doing any grapes this yet as I'm getting ready to move to penn state to finish my degree, but would anyone be interested in meeting up down there when the grapes come in? My Syrah and Malbec from last year will be done and bottled by then and I would love to hear some other opinions as to how it turned out.


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## heatherd (Mar 20, 2015)

Sounds good. I can bring some old vine zin to swap. I made it from last year's harvest. Should we add that to a meet up thread?
Heather


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## ceeaton (Mar 21, 2015)

Heather,

Some more general pail questions. BTW, I'm just doing my first kit tomorrow (WE Selection Viognier) but have been doing 5 batches with various Welches Juices and different fruits.

Okay, so were gonna pick up the pail and a lug of grapes. When we get home, I'm assuming I just need to let the pail warm to room temperature. I'll have my other equipment clean and ready to go. While the pail is warming, I'll destem and slightly crush the grapes. I assume I'll use strainer bags for the grapes, put 1/2 the pail into my fermenter, split the grapes between the pail and fermenter. Then things get a little "grey", do I sulfite, wait 8 to 12 hours and add pectic enzyme (Lallzyme EX-V - my bucket/grapes are Merlot) wait another 8 hours, then add tannins (FT Roughe)? Check SG/pH/TA and adjust. Add yeast (Goferm rehydration), stir to add lots of oxygen. Daily I'll squeeze the grape bags and make sure they are evenly moist. After my SG falls 1/3 I was planning to add Fermaid O per pkg instructions. Then when SG gets around 1.020 to 1.010, get the grape bags out after squeezing and move to a secondary fermenter under airlock. Then wait till I hit terminal gravity and it doesn't change for 3 straight days. Then decide if I'm doing a MLF (which I'm still researching). If not MLFing, degass and add sulfites and wait for eventual clearing, racking every two or three months, adding more sulfites every 3 months.

Did I miss anything?


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 21, 2015)

Craig,

I'm not Heather, but your plan is sound. I'd recommend the MLF. 

Jim


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## ceeaton (Mar 21, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> Craig,
> 
> I'm not Heather, but your plan is sound. I'd recommend the MLF.
> 
> Jim



Jim,

What yeast would you recommend for the Merlot if I do MLF, and should I wait for sugar fermentation to complete before attempting MLF or do it concurrently?

I'm assuming if I MLF after fermentation to hold off on sulfites till completion of MLF.

Your avatar looks she could be named Heather.

Side question, would you use Lavin QA23, ICV-D47 or the EC-1118 that came with my Viognier kit, or recommend something else?

Thanks in advance,


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 21, 2015)

I'd go with RP15, D254 or BM4X4; not necessarily in that order. You are correct that you don't want to sulfite until MLF is complete. I would press around 1.000, maybe 1.010. Let things settle for 48 hours or so, then rack and pitch your MLB.


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## cmason1957 (Mar 21, 2015)

Also some side notes, add some opti-Malo and rehydrate your MLB. Sometimes Merlot can be finicky about starting MLB. Be aware that malolactic fermentation is nothing like alcoholic fermentation, you may see nothing, it may take a long time.


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## ceeaton (Mar 22, 2015)

Wow, thanks for all the good information! Which MLB have you used in the past for Merlot? My LHBS keeps pushing the white labs version but they may feel I'm more comfortable with theirs since I use white labs for most of my beer production.

Was planning to order the Opti-Malo when I ordered the MLB, thanks for the reminder. Also planning on ordering the test kit, once the tax return shows up in my account.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 22, 2015)

I've had very good luck with VP41 on several varieties. Use Opti-Malo in the wine, and also add some Acti-ML to the liquid when hydrating the MLB.


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## heatherd (Mar 22, 2015)

I like the powdered MLB better than the liquids.

Your process looked good, a couple of notes:

Crushing and destemming isn't anything mysterious, you just have to get the grapes broken open and off the leaves and stems.

I put the grapes in six smaller mesh bags to make them easy to handle. Three in each pail.

SG/ph/ta adjustments are first step.

Pectic enzyme is second. Then you wait the allotted amount of time.

I run MLF and alcohol fermentation at the same time. The grapes and juice should be room temperature by the time you have done the prep.

Your notes on squeezing grapes sound good - I didn't stress over that. Do what you have time for.

No kmeta until after MLF is complete. I have to say I didn't do much in the way of stirring and fussing over the MLF. I stirred once every few days.

Your schedule for nutrients sounded good.

Let me check my notes on when to press... Or another member can chime in. I did this by hand, hence the smaller mesh bags. You can freeze the grapes and use in later kits.

You'll rack off the lees when alcoholic fermentation is done, and then MLF will continue in the carboys.

MLF takes time, I gave it a month before testing; I used the strips. Frankly, though, I could taste when the wine turned the corner from tart to mellow as the mlb did their work. When it got to where I liked the taste I called it done and added kmeta but no sorbate. There are more technical ways to go about it, but this works for me.

Then racked and let it sit to clear and degass. I racked a couple of times and you should add kmeta when you rack.

In terms of oak, I added powder to primary, then chips in a mesh bag while in a carboy. The chips last about six weeks.

Fairly straightforward. The forum is here if you have questions during the process.

Heather


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## ceeaton (Mar 22, 2015)

heatherd said:


> SG/ph/ta adjustments are first step.
> 
> Pectic enzyme is second. Then you wait the allotted amount of time.



Heather,

The only reason I left the SG/pH/TA testing/adjustments till after the Pectic enzyme "rest" was because I thought some of the juice liberated from the grapes might affect the initial SG. Guess I could do that first since I'll probably be waiting a decent amount of time for that bucket to warm up. Just made a batch of beer yesterday and got distracted and let the wort chiller run a little too much. Couldn't pitch the yeast until this morning.

Thanks for the thorough post and yes I will drive you all nuts with questions as long as you keep answering me!


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## ceeaton (Mar 22, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> I've had very good luck with VP41 on several varieties. Use Opti-Malo in the wine, and also add some Acti-ML to the liquid when hydrating the MLB.



Hmm, didn't realize there was an Acti-ML, so I guess that equates to GoFerm for rehydrating yeasts. Well, I'm compiling another order so I guess I'll add that one. Noticed that the smallest package for VP41 seems to be 2.5g, good for 66 gallons and they say it can't be stored once opened? Do you just add the whole package or measure out 1/11th of the package and add that? Gotta be a way to store that baby, especially at + $30 a package. I've slanted yeast, maybe I'll try some MLB for giggles.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 22, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Hmm, didn't realize there was an Acti-ML, so I guess that equates to GoFerm for rehydrating yeasts. Well, I'm compiling another order so I guess I'll add that one. Noticed that the smallest package for VP41 seems to be 2.5g, good for 66 gallons and they say it can't be stored once opened? Do you just add the whole package or measure out 1/11th of the package and add that? Gotta be a way to store that baby, especially at + $30 a package. I've slanted yeast, maybe I'll try some MLB for giggles.



Exactly right - ActiML = GoFerm for MLB. I've read of people storing it in the freezer successfully, but I haven't tried it. Instead, I'm gradually making more each time to simply lower the cost per bottle.


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## heatherd (Mar 23, 2015)

For the vp41, you can split it between your two pails, so that's 12 gallons +/-. It's worth trying to freeze the rest to use later.


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## ceeaton (Mar 28, 2015)

Next question. My wife gave me the go ahead to order a white juice bucket. I've heard they can be thin depending on the year. Is there any way to up the body? I know with reds you can add a lug of grapes, what can you do with a white bucket?

Hopefully I can still order, I saw an email a few days ago asking to get all last minute orders in.

Thanks,


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 28, 2015)

You can add golden raisins to primary. Not much is needed with whites, since they aren't usually fermented on the skins.


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## ceeaton (Mar 28, 2015)

I saw you lurking, I was hoping you'd answer quickly! Good, I'll order the bucket w/o any grapes. I was worried they will close up orders on Monday, so I can order now and hopefully beat the deadline. Thanks.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 28, 2015)

They usually have extra buckets, it seems. Makes it easy for the impulse buy when you go to pick up your grapes.


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## ceeaton (Mar 28, 2015)

Just ordered another bucket. It accepted my payment so I think I'm good.

Will have to make a pact with the wife NOT to splurge on a third bucket if they have extra. I already have to buy another fermenter, would be a terrible shame if I had to invest in another.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 28, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Just ordered another bucket. It accepted my payment so I think I'm good.
> 
> Will have to make a pact with the wife NOT to splurge on a third bucket if they have extra. I already have to buy another fermenter, would be a terrible shame if I had to invest in another.



Nice thing about the juice buckets is you can ferment in them. (yes, I am an evil enabler :: )


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## ceeaton (Mar 28, 2015)

I don't need an evil enabler. I've averaged buying a carboy a week for the last month. Already had a few from beer brewing. Now I need a corker and a few hundred bottles (have 120 or so bottles worth in carboys and about the same on deck with kits and buckets to come). It's a never ending spiral, when will it ever stop!


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## Angelina (Mar 28, 2015)

LOL welcome to the obsession!




ceeaton said:


> I don't need an evil enabler. I've averaged buying a carboy a week for the last month. Already had a few from beer brewing. Now I need a corker and a few hundred bottles (have 120 or so bottles worth in carboys and about the same on deck with kits and buckets to come). It's a never ending spiral, when will it ever stop!


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## ceeaton (Mar 28, 2015)

I ordered a white juice pail. Is there enough head space to ferment the whole bucket in the original bucket, or is it filled with grape goodness right to the top?


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## heatherd (Mar 28, 2015)

The juice buckets have a bit of head space for fermentation. For a white, you should be fine. The buckets don't have enough room for a lug of grapes, so that's when I split them into two batches.

I picked up grapes today. They tested brix for free and loaned me a large fermenter to take home the grapes. I will take it back to them when I pick up Chilean harvest. Nice folks.... They had a big Mason Dixon wine event for 90 people plus a bachelorette party tasting today, so were hopping to say the least.

Heather


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## heatherd (Mar 28, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Just ordered another bucket. It accepted my payment so I think I'm good.
> 
> Will have to make a pact with the wife NOT to splurge on a third bucket if they have extra. I already have to buy another fermenter, would be a terrible shame if I had to invest in another.



Luckily fermenters stack inside each other when empty, so we can all keep buying those without much notice. Carboys, on the other hand are pretty conspicuous. At the beginning of this hobby I told my hubby that I would just do one batch at a time, and I needed one more carboy just for swing space. Then we had the same conversation about the third one, the fourth one, the two 3 gallon ones, etc, etc.


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## ceeaton (Mar 29, 2015)

Yea, it helps to have more carboys to make rackings less dependent on clearing another one. Makes carboy math easier (luckily I have a CS/Math degree). Unfortunately I'm not there yet.

Today I've got to move a beer batch from a 6 gallon glass carboy to a 5, then clean the 6 and move an Orchard Breezin batch to it to degass, move that to a 5 gallon and 4 L jug, clean the glass 6 for the next batch of beer, clean the bucket that had the OB kit in and make a Selection Viognier. Then at some point I've got to move two in 6 gallon better bottle batches into the glass 6 and a better bottle 6 I just bought, clean the better bottles and re rack the glass to one I just cleaned, before the Viognier needs racked out of the bucket. Then I might be able to get another OB kit going and cleared out of the bucket before the Chilean juice arrives. In between I go away for 4 days, so I've got to time moves around that.


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## ColemanM (Apr 1, 2015)

Well, I see your problem Craig, you need to start doing reds and pick up a couple barrels. Then you have a few 20 liter barrels. Some 5 gallon carboys, a half dozen 6 gallons and then a few 6.5 gallons for your beer. I don't need no stinking degree, I'm a fermenting addict [emoji7]


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## ceeaton (Apr 1, 2015)

I see the barrel writing on the wall, just trying to hold it off for a year or so. Luckily I'm not an oak addict, yet.

Speaking of barrels, I know you run quite a few batches through till they become flavor "neutral" and are really only used for the micro oxidation, after that, how long is a barrel usable? Can I assume if you keep it filled it will last a lifetime, or am I smoking something illegal?


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## ColemanM (Apr 1, 2015)

As long as you keep good care of it, it should technically last forever. My French barrels seem more "flavor neutral" that my Vadai barrel. Meaning my first fill of my vadai was over oaked after 10 days and it took 9 weeks for my French barrel to get to that level. Just my observation.


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## ceeaton (Apr 1, 2015)

So when I do go down that avenue, no matter if it's a French or Hungarian or American barrel, I should be making enough to keep that barrel filled at all times, right? And also plan on the first few batches not lingering as long as later batches. In other words have a few aging in carboys before I buy the barrel, maybe even a Chardonnay for the first one, since I guess you can't put a white in after a red without making it a blush.


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## heatherd (Apr 1, 2015)

I use primaries for racking when I don't have enough carboys for swing space. I just rack from carboy to primary, clean and sanitize the carboy, then rack back into it.


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## ColemanM (Apr 1, 2015)

As long as you ferment the Chardonnay IN the barrel and have at least 3 reds waiting and maybe thinking about a fourth, you'd be fine. It's night and day though. Sorry to be such a "buy buy buy" guy but it's really nice!


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## ColemanM (Apr 1, 2015)

Great point Heatherd. What do you do about topping up? Do you find you loose a little or a lot? I've given up on tossing the last 500ml in a jar and waiting for it to separate.


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## ceeaton (Apr 1, 2015)

ColemanM said:


> As long as you ferment the Chardonnay IN the barrel and have at least 3 reds waiting and maybe thinking about a fourth, you'd be fine. It's night and day though. Sorry to be such a "buy buy buy" guy but it's really nice!



I sometimes think "buy" is my middle name. When I get the bug, I've gotta put the brakes on and think it through. Did it years ago for beer and ended up with 4 corny kegs, a grain crusher, 7 carboys, fridge with temp control for lagers... you get the picture.

If all you guys and gals weren't so damn helpful I wouldn't have this problem. (My wife says I'm good at blaming others for my problems, I just don't see it ).


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## ceeaton (Apr 7, 2015)

Okay, back to these Chilean grapes and buckets. If I get a lug of grapes, which I guess is 18 lbs since it's from Chile, how much juice can you get out of these when you press them? Is it like around 1 gallon per 18 lbs? (I know, depends on the grapes and the season, just looking for a ballpark figure)

I know I have plenty of room since I plan on splitting the bucket and grapes between two fermenters, just want figure out what the ratio is between juice in the bucket and juice added from the fresh grapes. (Thinking about a burgundy here).


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 7, 2015)

When planning, I use 1.25 gallons per Chilean lug (18lbs) and 2.5 with California. And yes: some will be more, some less.


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## ceeaton (Apr 7, 2015)

Thanks Jim.

I'm drinking a Bordeaux that is 70% Merlot, 20% Cab Sauv and 10% Cab Franc and want to aim for that with my Chilean order. I like the Bordeaux that have more % of Merlot vs. Cabernet Sauvingon. Just ordered some Cab Sauv grapes and will use them with the Merlot bucket and make the Merlot grapes into grape packs for summer kits.


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## heatherd (Apr 18, 2015)

That sounds yummy Craig.

I am doing Carmenere juice bucket plus lug of grapes.

I emailed Teresa to check on when they may receive things. She said first and second weeks of May. Some of our orders will require two pick-ups depending on how things arrive.

They are anxiously waiting the results of the South African pinotage - as I am the only one who ordered it. Harford didn't order any either. They tested brix at 23. It yielded 4.5 gallons of juice from three 20# lugs, even when pressed by hand. Ph was very high, so I adjusted that. It has fermented to dry but I haven't tasted it yet. I tried some varietals of commercial Pinotage that have oak, so I stuck a stave of medium toast oak. We shall see.....


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 18, 2015)

I can't believe you were the only one! I had told them I was interested, but never got to the order. They put mine 'back on the market' and were able to sell them so I was off the hook. Looks like you're making *my* wine.


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## heatherd (Apr 18, 2015)

I placed the order online pretty early so someone else must be making your wine.....


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 18, 2015)

heatherd said:


> I placed the order online pretty early so someone else must be making your wine.....



Oh, I thought you said you were the only one that ordered.


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## heatherd (Apr 18, 2015)

You're right, that makes two orders. When I was there it wasn't clear what they'd do with your grapes, so I didn't add that to the count. I suspect they will have them next year also - when your fancy new wine room is ready.


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## ceeaton (Apr 27, 2015)

heatherd said:


> That sounds yummy Craig.
> 
> I am doing Carmenere juice bucket plus lug of grapes.
> 
> I emailed Teresa to check on when they may receive things. She said first and second weeks of May. Some of our orders will require two pick-ups depending on how things arrive.



Heather, 

Hear anymore info about the delivery date? I'd email but if you did already I don't want to bug her. Actually hoping for he 2nd weekend in May, my wife has to work this weekend and couldn't get a day off.


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## heatherd (Apr 27, 2015)

Nothing more yet.....


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 27, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Heather,
> 
> Hear anymore info about the delivery date? I'd email but if you did already I don't want to bug her. Actually hoping for he 2nd weekend in May, my wife has to work this weekend and couldn't get a day off.



The last two years, that's when I've picked mine up. But that is no guarantee. 

Darn move. I'm jealous of you guys and gals that are getting ready to start new batches.


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## ceeaton (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm assuming that if the lugs o' grapes come in first that there is little choice but to pick them up that weekend (or do they last a few weeks?).

Jim, just think of that wonderful new room you'll have dedicated to making your top quality wine. On the bright side, fall juice season will be here before you know it. (we learned about being positive and upbeat in church yesterday, just practicing)


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## JohnT (Apr 28, 2015)

My thinking is that it is always best to pick them up as soon as you can, but feel that there is a week of "wiggle room" provided that the grapes are kept cold and stored correctly.


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## ibglowin (Apr 28, 2015)

Remember it takes ~ 2 weeks for the grapes to get to Miami from Chile on a freighter. Then they have to be trucked North which takes another couple days. They are held in cold storage but still. You should pick them up ASAP as once they get dropped off some places have little to no proper cold storage.


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## ceeaton (Apr 28, 2015)

The place I'm picking them up from does have proper storage, but I think I'll pick them up as soon as they are available. If things would go south because of my laziness I doubt my wife would allow funds to be allocated for grapes next year.


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## JohnT (Apr 29, 2015)

Good plan ceeaton. Never hurts to be timely.


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## heatherd (Apr 30, 2015)

Craig, in the past, Harford has encouraged folks to come within a few days of each shipment arriving. You may be able to stretch it to pick up both together if they arrive a week apart. Best bet is to call Teresa on the phone to chat through your options.
Heather


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## ceeaton (Apr 30, 2015)

Thanks Heather. Looks as though it will be next weekend at the earliest since I haven't seen an email with the scheduled times for pickups. Will make my wife happy since we were going to use it as an excuse to get away without the children for a few hours.

I assume they have pickups during their regular hours and not on Monday through Thursday since they aren't normally open then?


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## heatherd (Apr 30, 2015)

They open weekdays for pickups when the harvest is in. They'll also extend their weekend hours earlier or later to accomodate folks.


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