# It's February, So I'm thinking Chile...



## Boatboy24 (Feb 1, 2016)

Yes, its early. But once the holiday euphoria wears off, I find myself thinking about what I'll be making for the Chilean harvest. Oh, who am I kidding? I've been thinking about it since I got the 2015 Californians into carboys. While I have yet to bottle or even complete my first true blend, I'm realizing the benefits blending brings. You really can bring a good wine to great. So, I'm looking to bring more variety into the mix without breaking the bank, or making hundreds of gallons. With that in mind, this Spring, I'm going back to the methods from my first foray into fresh fruit/juice. I will be making 4 batches from juice buckets, each augmented with 1-2 lugs of grapes. Its taken almost 3 years, but the Carmenere and Malbec I made this way in 2013 are really starting to shine. 

So far, I've committed myself to Carmenere and Cabernet Sauvignon. For the other two, I'm leaning toward Syrah and Merlot. But I'm not 100% on that yet. I'm looking for input on what you think will blend well, but also stand on its own, potentially. 

What are you making this Spring?


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## Steve_M (Feb 1, 2016)

What is the benefit of the buckets and adding grapes, if you could just go all grape?
Strictly talking about Spring Chilean grapes/juice. 
I don't have any plans (right now) for Spring but.....

Steve


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## ceeaton (Feb 1, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> What are you making this Spring?



The field blend that you and @heatherd guided me though last spring is shaping up to be a very good blend (Merlot bucket, lugs of Merlot, Cab Sauv, Malbec). So this year I'm going to jump to the other "bank" and do a Cab Sauv bucket with Cab Sauv, Merlot and Cab Franc lugs. Like you said in your post, it will probably be two or three years before I really know what the potential of this wine is, but for the cost of an Eclipse kit with shipping for 10 gallons of non kit wine, it's worth the risk. Also doing two buckets of the Pinot Grigio since those turned out really well, and were very drinkable by last fall. Might (if wifey approved) do either a Pinot Noir or a Syrah with a lug to try something new and different.

Some day I'll advance to your stage and try my hand at blending, but at this point I'm just learning what I like, and these cheap buckets are a great way to experiment.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 1, 2016)

Steve_M said:


> What is the benefit of the buckets and adding grapes, if you could just go all grape?
> Strictly talking about Spring Chilean grapes/juice.
> I don't have any plans (right now) for Spring but.....
> 
> Steve



1) you can do grape wine without a crusher/destemer or a press. With the small quantity of actual grapes involved, you can do everything by hand. 

2) A 6gal bucket of juice costs about $55. The lug of grapes another $28 or so. You get 7 gallons of wine for under $100, after you add yeast, additives and MLB. And IMHO, what you end up with is much more like a commercial wine and less like a kit. The kits you could get in this price range can't even come close to comparing. (again, IMHO) 7 gallons of wine from grapes costs significantly more than this to do. I've got my cost for 'all grape' down to $5-6 per bottle. But with this method its closer to $3. 

I'm drinking my 2013 Malbec made this way right now and I've got to say, I don't think its lacking anything.


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## Matty_Kay (Feb 1, 2016)

Great topic, I too have been thinking about what to make this spring and I think I change my mind daily. I plan on keeping it to 2 reds, Carmenere for sure and maybe a Syrah. I'll probably take the same approach as Jim and add 1-2 lugs of grapes to juice buckets. I did that last spring and in the fall and so far happy with the results. I did a Chilean Malbec and a Carmenere/Malbec blend that has the potential to be my favorite wine I've made thus far. Most likely try my hand at all grapes in the fall.


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## sdelli (Feb 1, 2016)

Steve_M said:


> What is the benefit of the buckets and adding grapes, if you could just go all grape?
> 
> Strictly talking about Spring Chilean grapes/juice.
> 
> ...




Be very careful in considering grapes from South America! The juice seems to have a decent track record of chance of any quality.... Fresh grapes... Huge gamble! Way too far away to ship fresh fruit! That is why you buy juice and add your own..... I have 3 5lbs bags of grapes I froze from the fall fermentation to be added to juices....


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## geek (Feb 1, 2016)

I am thinking about a small batch of Zinfandel or Malbec, from grapes....I think I'd never go back to juice buckets even with crushed grapes in the mix...personally I think that will never get me the wine quality that I get from all grapes.


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## sdelli (Feb 1, 2016)

geek said:


> I am thinking about a small batch of Zinfandel or Malbec, from grapes....I think I'd never go back to juice buckets even with crushed grapes in the mix...personally I think that will never get me the wine quality that I get from all grapes.




I agree 100%..... But not from Chili


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## ceeaton (Feb 1, 2016)

sdelli said:


> I agree 100%..... But not from Chili



I think it really depends on the supplier. I got mine last spring from where Jim and Heather get theirs and I've never once heard them complain about their grapes from Chile. The ones I received last spring were in very good condition. 

They must have figured out some way of getting them up here in good condition, just look at all the table grapes from Chile in the grocery stores in the spring. My kids love them.


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## heatherd (Feb 2, 2016)

It does depend on the supplier. I have always gotten great product from Harford Vineyard, as @ceeaton mentioned.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 15, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> 1) you can do grape wine without a crusher/destemer or a press. With the small quantity of actual grapes involved, you can do everything by hand.
> 
> 2) A 6gal bucket of juice costs about $55. The lug of grapes another $28 or so. You get 7 gallons of wine for under $100, after you add yeast, additives and MLB. And IMHO, what you end up with is much more like a commercial wine and less like a kit. The kits you could get in this price range can't even come close to comparing. (again, IMHO) 7 gallons of wine from grapes costs significantly more than this to do. I've got my cost for 'all grape' down to $5-6 per bottle. But with this method its closer to $3.
> 
> I'm drinking my 2013 Malbec made this way right now and I've got to say, I don't think its lacking anything.



Are you getting the juice and the grapes at the same place? Where?
I'm thinking about trying this, I'm wanting Merlot and Cab. Sauv.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 15, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> Are you getting the juice and the grapes at the same place? Where?
> I'm thinking about trying this, I'm wanting Merlot and Cab. Sauv.



Yes, north of Baltimore at Harford Winery.


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## Johnd (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm looking at getting some must from Musto Wine Group ( new name for the M&M wine folks). You order the lugs, they destem and crush into pails, freeze and ship to you. I know I gotta pay some fees for all that, but down here, it's a good option for me to make wine from grapes. Any experiences with these guys?


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## geek (Feb 15, 2016)

Johnd said:


> I'm looking at getting some must from Musto Wine Group ( new name for the M&M wine folks). You order the lugs, they destem and crush into pails, freeze and ship to you. I know I gotta pay some fees for all that, but down here, it's a good option for me to make wine from grapes. Any experiences with these guys?




You cannot go wrong with M&M.


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## Tnuscan (Feb 15, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Yes, north of Baltimore at Harford Winery.



Thanks,
Looks like a 11.5 hr. drive either way , to Presque Iles or Harford.
My closest winery is only doing local grapes this year.

Maybe I can figure something out, I was wanting to try both pail and grapes (Merlot & Cab) this spring, if not I will be making the drive in the fall for sure.
Would probably be to long from pickup, to procedure anyway. Around 17 to 20 hours after initial pickup.

JohnT's post/small article, painted a picture in my mind, that has motivated me. Along with your thread "It's February, So I'm thinking Chile... lol


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## Philly (Mar 6, 2016)

I bought my Chilean grapes from Collinwood Grape in Cleveland, they work directly with a grower in CHILE. I made two wines, one was a Malbec/ Carmenere blend.80/20 The other was Cab Sauv I was very impressed with the quality, no H2S, just huge fruit. I understand the grapes come from the Colchagua and Maipo Valleys. They have a Syrah from Aconcagua Valley that has the Eastern face in Mendozza Argentina. I have read about others having problems with Chilean grapes, I can only speak of mine for the last couple of years, and the quality is very comparable to Sonoma.


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## heatherd (Mar 6, 2016)

I am skipping spring and planning to do an all-grape batch of Maryland Traimenette in the fall from Harford Vineyard. 

My Maryland Seyval Blanc all-grape batch from last fall was the best of the eight batches I did in 2015.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 6, 2016)

heatherd said:


> I am skipping spring and planning to do an all-grape batch of Maryland Traimenette in the fall from Harford Vineyard.



Are you getting whole grapes? Just your mention of that wine sent my taste buds into a frenzy.


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## heatherd (Mar 7, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Are you getting whole grapes? Just your mention of that wine sent my taste buds into a frenzy.



Yes, I will get whole grapes in the fall. I figure that I might as well do batches of Maryland grapes since I have access to them through Harford.


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## Johnd (Mar 7, 2016)

Well, bit the bullet today and placed the order, first foray into wine from nothing but grapes with two Chileans. Ordered two 5 gallon pails of Cabernet Sauvignon, and two of Malbec. It'll be a good skills test for me before fall. Should be shipping end of May, plenty of time to prep.


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## jhawk (Mar 7, 2016)

Boatboy 
I did a Chilean Syrah and Malbec 50/50 blend and it is phenomenal and getting better with age. I highly recommend it give it a try. You'll thank me later.
jhawk


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## JohnT (Mar 8, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> Thanks,
> Looks like a 11.5 hr. drive either way , to Presque Iles or Harford.
> My closest winery is only doing local grapes this year.
> 
> ...


 

11.5 hours???? There simply MUST be someplace closer to you. I could almost drive from NJ to Tenn in about 11 hours! 

Have you looked into something in Ga?


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## geek (Mar 8, 2016)

jhawk said:


> Boatboy
> I did a Chilean Syrah and Malbec 50/50 blend and it is phenomenal and getting better with age. I highly recommend it give it a try. You'll thank me later.
> jhawk



That is a blend I haven't about....


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## Tnuscan (Mar 8, 2016)

JohnT said:


> 11.5 hours???? There simply MUST be someplace closer to you. I could almost drive from NJ to Tenn in about 11 hours!
> 
> Have you looked into something in Ga?



I have not tried Ga. , I will look into that. I'm thinking on focusing on the Fall harvest. This will give me more time to get everything together , and make the best connections. I agree there has to be something closer, and cheaper than a 50.00 charge per bucket for delivery. I Know one thing for sure I'll drive before I pay 600. to 900. in shipping. Lol. I like Merlot and Cab. Sauv. but......


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## cmason1957 (Mar 8, 2016)

Tnuscan said:


> I have not tried Ga. , I will look into that. I'm thinking on focusing on the Fall harvest. This will give me more time to get everything together , and make the best connections. I agree there has to be something closer, and cheaper than a 50.00 charge per bucket for delivery. I Know one thing for sure I'll drive before I pay 600. to 900. in shipping. Lol. I like Merlot and Cab. Sauv. but......



I believe that St. Louis Wine and Beer will be bringing in juice buckets. That would be led than an 11 hour trip I am pretty sure.


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## cintipam (Mar 8, 2016)

Here in Cincinnati we get buckets at Listermanns. I go to Tennesse often (Winchester) and it's 7 hours. But I thought I remembered that a place in Louisville KY gets buckets also. That should be a lot shorter.

Pam in cinti


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## JohnT (Mar 9, 2016)

I know that most here already know this, but let me put this out anyway..


*Please Remember:* 

If you are ordering *fresh* *Chilean grapes*, they are normally sold in *half lug crates of 18 pounds*. This is unlike California grapes that are normally sold in full lugs (36 pounds).

In your figuring, expect to get around *6 bottles of Chilean wine for each crate* you purchase.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 9, 2016)

JohnT said:


> I know that most here already know this, but let me put this out anyway..
> 
> 
> *Please Remember:*
> ...



I estimate 1.25 gallons per Chilean lug (pretty much right at your 6 bottles). 

And just to add more confusion, my supplier has South African lugs that are 20lbs each. I never knew I'd need a degree in math in order to make wine.


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## berrycrush (Mar 9, 2016)

I am doing Chilean Pinot Noir this spring


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 9, 2016)

berrycrush said:


> I am doing Chilean Pinot Noir this spring



Grapes? Juice Bucket? Combination?


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## berrycrush (Mar 9, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Grapes? Juice Bucket? Combination?


I am doing grapes.


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## JohnT (Mar 9, 2016)

berrycrush said:


> I am doing grapes.


 

Just remember.. Post pictures or it did not happen!


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## berrycrush (Mar 9, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Just remember.. Post pictures or it did not happen!



Will do! ~~~~~~


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 11, 2016)

Placed my order with Harford Vineyard and Winery this morning. 

Buckets: Carmenere, Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Merlot
Grape lugs: Carmenere, Cabernet Sauvignon (2), Syrah (2), Merlot

I'm thinking about adding a lug or two of Petite Verdot for blending. Two lugs would get me 2-2.5 gallons and that should be plenty to add a little color and depth to the mix. And a Carmenere/PV blend would mimic one of my favorite Chilean wines: Purple Angel.

To reiterate: I'm doing buckets this spring to increase the number of varietals for blends without a dramatic increase in cost. The Malbec and Carmenere I did in 2013 with 1 juice bucket and 1 lug of grapes have turned out really well, with no lacking for color or body that I've noticed.


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## ceeaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Hey Jim,

I noticed in Harford's email that the white orders need to be in by the end of this month. What is the earliest you've seen the white buckets/grapes come in? I'm going to be out of town for a long weekend in the middle of April and wonder if they have ever arrived that early.

Guess I could email Teresa, I'm sure they could hold it for a week, or at least until sometime the next week till I could pick it up.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 11, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Hey Jim,
> 
> I noticed in Harford's email that the white orders need to be in by the end of this month. What is the earliest you've seen the white buckets/grapes come in? I'm going to be out of town for a long weekend in the middle of April and wonder if they have ever arrived that early.
> 
> Guess I could email Teresa, I'm sure they could hold it for a week, or at least until sometime the next week till I could pick it up.



Nice thing about buckets is they keep a while. In my limited experience, the Chileans come in to Harford in May.


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## ceeaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Nice thing about buckets is they keep a while. In my limited experience, the Chileans come in to Harford in May.



Yea, and I think he keeps that storage room of his about 33*F if I'm remembering what he said last year.

I just emailed her, but after checking old emails I saved from last year there are pickups from the day they come in through the next week. I had to show up on a Saturday because I wanted my red grapes destemmed and crushed, they just happened to get the white and reds in the same week so I only had one trip.

Their email made it sound like there is a chance it will be on different weekends this year.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 11, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Yea, and I think he keeps that storage room of his about 33*F if I'm remembering what he said last year.



Don't know the exact temp, but it's very cold in there. Two years ago, I was picking up on a Monday and needed crush/destem service. They did that for me on Sunday and added 50ppm of sulfite. My grapes were in large bins so we transferred to my buckets inside the walk in. I was in shorts and a t-shirt and froze my grapes off!


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## ceeaton (Mar 11, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Don't know the exact temp, but it's very cold in there. Two years ago, I was picking up on a Monday and needed crush/destem service. They did that for me on Sunday and added 50ppm of sulfite. My grapes were in large bins so we transferred to my buckets inside the walk in. I was in shorts and a t-shirt and froze my grapes off!



That's what I love about them, they will do about anything to make it work. I just stole a taste from my Merlot blend carboy that I added Tannin Extra Riche to about 6 weeks ago, and even though it isn't a year old yet, this is a really great tasting wine. Amazing how much it has changed since January when I racked it last.

They deliver a really good product and have great one-on-one service. I don't care what anyone else says about having to use only grapes etc, for the money a juice bucket and a lug of grapes is just fine for me and my taste buds! What a cost effective way to experiment with different varieties.

Edit: Teresa emailed back, they are expecting both whites and reds in early May at this point. Obviously that can change with little notice.


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## ceeaton (Apr 1, 2016)

Sounds like juice buckets may be available for pickup starting April 28th or 29th. Some whole grapes may not come in until later. Guess that is standard operating procedure.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 1, 2016)

Yep, SOP indeed. But a week, maybe two earlier than the last two years. That is good. Should keep me free (and out of the doghouse) for our anniversary weekend.


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## ceeaton (Apr 1, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Should keep me free (and out of the doghouse) for our anniversary weekend.



My wife was hoping for later in May for our anniversary (17th). If the weekend they think is true is true, she has to work.

Just concerned now, ordered a Pinot Noir bucket and one lug of grapes. If the lug comes in later, isn't much of a "batch" to ferment on it's own.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 1, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> My wife was hoping for later in May for our anniversary (17th). If the weekend they think is true is true, she has to work.
> 
> Just concerned now, ordered a Pinot Noir bucket and one lug of grapes. If the lug comes in later, isn't much of a "batch" to ferment on it's own.



Ours is the 20th. 

If I'm not mistaken, the buckets come in a few batches. The grapes are in when their in.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 12, 2016)

Looks like the last week of April is when it begins!


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## ceeaton (Apr 12, 2016)

Looks like two trips for me. One for buckets, one for grapes. That might change, as I remember it did last year.

Will they keep a bucket in the cooler until your grapes arrive? I guess I could ask, but that would be too easy. I think at 33*F you don't have to worry about a spontaneous fermentation starting up.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 12, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Will they keep a bucket in the cooler until your grapes arrive? I guess I could ask, but that would be too easy. I think at 33*F you don't have to worry about a spontaneous fermentation starting up.



Yes - especially if there's only a 1 week delay. I'm conflicted. Looks like my Merlot grapes will be early. May swap them out for some Petit Verdot if I can.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 15, 2016)

Got my yeasts and other goodies ordered. 

Would love to meet some other winemakers headed to Harford. But because the weekends are pretty crazy this time of year, I'll most likely be taking a Friday off to go pick up my order. If there's any interest, let me know.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 16, 2016)

Gotta love MoreWine having a warehouse in PA. The goods were on my doorstep this morning.


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## ceeaton (Apr 22, 2016)

Just got an email from Harford confirming next weeks delivery. Might even get my grapes the same time if I'm lucky. Engineering for next Friday off since my wife normally has off Friday when she works the weekend. Sounds like a juice run followed by an early anniversary lunch in Hanover, PA on the way back home. Always enjoy the trip home since I usually buy her a tasting from Teresa, gets her a bit silly before lunch. 

Now I definitely need to get something bottled this weekend.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 22, 2016)

As usual, the grapes I order don't come in at the same time. I have juice and grapes for Merlot, Cab Sauv, Syrah, and Carmenere. Of course, the Merlot will be in next week. All others MIGHT be in next week as well. EXCEPT for Cab Sauv, which will definitely not be in until the following week. 

I guess if all but the cab are in next week, I'll see if I can sub my cab grapes for something else to go into that juice bucket. What's the collective opinion - should I just throw Merlot grapes into the Cab bucket?

Keep me posted on your schedule, Craig. Maybe we can meet and swap a few bottles.


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## ceeaton (Apr 22, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Keep me posted on your schedule, Craig. Maybe we can meet and swap a few bottles.



Sounds like a plan. Need to get the "boss" to approve it as she may already have plans that day. If she does I'll be there right when they open up so I can get home and tinker with my juice (something doesn't sound quite right about that statement).

So in the case of your Cab Sauv, wouldn't they store the bucket there for a week and let you pick it up when the grapes come in? I know Kevin said that he kept that cooler where he stores everything at 33-35*F. I was thinking of asking them that if the Pinot Noir grapes don't come in the first batch.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 22, 2016)

I'm going to ask them that. I had a friend who did that accidentally two years ago. I think it was Old Vine Zinfandel. Anyway, he'd ordered grapes all from one location in CA, except for his Zin, which came in a week before everything else. They called him to tell him his grapes had been sitting there for 5 days and wanted to know if he was picking them up. I never had any of it, but he told me the wine was just fine.


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## ceeaton (Apr 22, 2016)

Talked with the wife, she may be studying for her final, so I may just be on my own. If she does go she'd want to go early, so if they open up Friday morning at 10 am I'll be there between 10 and 11, depending on traffic.

This assumes that we get an email early next week saying it is "on" for sure.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 22, 2016)

I think noon is their usual start time.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 27, 2016)

Looks like they're starting early this time. 8am. I'm tempted to be there when they open, but am on the fence. It would mean I'd run into the tail end of Baltimore rush hour on the way home, but I'd be home before lunch and would have the afternoon free.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 27, 2016)

So, back to the original topic: I ultimately committed to buckets of Carmenere, Cab Sauv, Merlot and Syrah. One lug each for the Carmenere and Syrah, along with 2 lugs each for the Merlot and Cab. Well, the Carm and Cab aren't coming until next week, but all the juice buckets are in this week. I've asked them if I can swap my Cab for more Merlot and the Carmenere for Petit Verdot. So the Cab juice bucket will have the Merlot grapes and the Carm will get the PV (which will come close to mimicking "Purple Angel").


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