# First Batch ever!



## The green Dragon (Dec 9, 2020)

Just started my first kit wine yesterday not even 24 hrs ago so excited!


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## ithink2020 (Dec 9, 2020)

I'm excited for you! What are you making?


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## The green Dragon (Dec 9, 2020)

ithink2020 said:


> I'm excited for you! What are you making?


I forgot to put water in the air lock 24 hrs in no bubbling probably ruined it but i topped up the air lock we’ll see what happens


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## The green Dragon (Dec 9, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> I forgot to put water in the air lock 24 hrs in no bubbling probably ruined it but i topped up the air lock we’ll see what happens


Not sure if you can open the thumb nail not the greatest pic its and ABC wine kit medium boddied cabernet savignon


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 9, 2020)

welcome to WMT
you will find that wine is very tolerant, lots of the differences show up with age, ,,, is it a one year shelf life or a five?


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> welcome to WMT
> you will find that wine is very tolerant, lots of the differences show up with age, ,,, is it a one year shelf life or a five?


I didnt see anything on the kit about shelf life my intention was 5 years but maybe i should drink it sooner now?


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## ithink2020 (Dec 10, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> 24 hrs in no bubbling probably ruined it



I think it will be alright. During the primary fermentation, the main goal is to keep fruit flies, etc. out. I don't snap down the lid on my primary most of the time. Any signs of fermentation now?



The green Dragon said:


> Not sure if you can open the thumb nail not the greatest pic its and ABC wine kit medium boddied cabernet savignon



I've seen these, but have not tried one yet. You'll have to keep us posted on how it goes!

Welcome to WMT!


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 10, 2020)

Kits are designed to be made quickly and then ready for drinking. ,,, It is worth while to keep at least one to learn about aging, all foods have a shelf life even army MREs. 


The green Dragon said:


> I didnt see anything on the kit about shelf life my intention was 5 years but maybe i should drink it sooner now?


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## VinesnBines (Dec 10, 2020)

I think that ABC kit is the old Fontana kit series. I make the Cab Sav but add a cup of French oak, a cup of Zante currants, sugar (5 cups in a quart of water) and only enough water to get five gallons as opposed to six. It is a family and friend's favorite.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

ithink2020 said:


> I think it will be alright. During the primary fermentation, the main goal is to keep fruit flies, etc. out. I don't snap down the lid on my primary most of the time. Any signs of fermentation now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> I think that ABC kit is the old Fontana kit series. I make the Cab Sav but add a cup of French oak, a cup of Zante currants, sugar (5 cups in a quart of water) and only enough water to get five gallons as opposed to six. It is a family and friend's favorite.


I cant wait to get to this point of custom wine making. i feel like a child learning to walk  I really want to have a drinkable wine from a couple kits so I can see (and taste) the fruits of my labour


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> I think that ABC kit is the old Fontana kit series. I make the Cab Sav but add a cup of French oak, a cup of Zante currants, sugar (5 cups in a quart of water) and only enough water to get five gallons as opposed to six. It is a family and friend's favorite.


Do you bump up the yeast for the extra sugar or does the kit come with enough?


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> Kits are designed to be made quickly and then ready for drinking. ,,, It is worth while to keep at least one to learn about aging, all foods have a shelf life even army MREs.


Do you know any “kit tricks” to bumping up the agability to five - ten years? Or is it a matter of buying actual grapes at that point?


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## ithink2020 (Dec 10, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> Do you bump up the yeast for the extra sugar or does the kit come with enough?



The packet of yeast that comes with the kits will be enough.


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## VinesnBines (Dec 10, 2020)

Usually the yeast in the kit is EC1118 which will go to 18% alcohol. My SG is usually 1.098 to 1.120; not too high for EC1118. As someone said it will ferment a rock.
Not much to customize the kits. Look at the thread Tweaking Cheap Kits.


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## VinesnBines (Dec 10, 2020)

Use a turkey baster for a wine thief.


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## ithink2020 (Dec 10, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Use a turkey baster for a wine thief.



This!


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## winemaker81 (Dec 10, 2020)

@The green Dragon, YOU are why I spend time in the beginner forum. As much as I enjoy talking to experienced wine makers, the exuberance of beginners is invigorating!

First advice: take a deep breath and relax. Winemaking is an exercise in patience. Sure, the first few weeks are very exciting!!! After that? It's a lot like watching the grass grow. Only less exciting.

Second? After fermentation, oxygen is your enemy. But it's a slow enemy - a day without water in the airlock is not a problem. Several weeks or even months? This is a different story.

Third? Taste your wine!

I taste my wines at _every_ racking. People will tell you to not open a bottle before a year -- they are wrong. Open a bottle every 3 months. Write down what you smell, taste, and experience. Compare your notes. Educate yourself _why _you should let wines age. Nothing is better than practical experience.

Fourth? Don't worry about shelf life. Your first batch won't last long enough to go bad.

Welcome to WMT!


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## VinesnBines (Dec 10, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> Third? Taste your wine!
> 
> I taste my wines at _every_ racking. People will tell you to not open a bottle before a year -- they are wrong. Open a bottle every 3 months. Write down what you smell, taste, and experience. Compare your notes. Educate yourself _why _you should let wines age. Nothing is better than practical experience.


Amen. Taste every step of the way; as much as every day during primary. Taste at least at every racking; I taste at least once a month during aging. I get an idea of how it is developing and can see the clarity in a glass - extremely useful if aging in barrels or kegs.
Your taste buds and nose are the most useful wine cellar instruments. A lot of the guys (sorry to be sexist) like to play with the testing instruments (perfectly valid) but it all comes down to smell and taste. No one at your party or barbeque cares about pH or TA, just taste.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 10, 2020)

It's honestly funny -- when friends visit and I pull a barrel sample, they get all excited, kind of like it's an honor. Even my sons, who have been helping me make wine for over a decade -- they get excited over tastings.

Ok, when I pull a barrel sample, I'm showing off. That doesn't mean the friends & family tasting the wine don't appreciate it, and for them, it is exciting!

Remember that wine making is fun! We take a raw, natural product (ok, for kits this is stretching the truth a bit, but bear with me) and produce something amazing.



VinesnBines said:


> Your taste buds and nose are the most useful wine cellar instruments.


Two years ago my son and I sweetened a metheglin prior to bottling. We added sugar, stirred well, and tasted, discussing after each tasting. We repeated this several times, and when I decided we were good, I asked him what he thought.

"Needs a bit more."

"Just a bit more?"

"Yeah. Not much."

"We are stopping here."

"Why?"

"Because it will develop in the bottle and more sugar will be too much."

A year later we popped a cork and he agreed, the metheglin was spot on. Just a hint of sweetness that emphasized the spice notes. Would more sugar have been better worse? I have no idea -- all I can say is that we produced a very satisfactory result.

This knowledge doesn't come from a book or a video. Experience is the only real teacher.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> @The green Dragon, YOU are why I spend time in the beginner forum. As much as I enjoy talking to experienced wine makers, the exuberance of beginners is invigorating!
> 
> First advice: take a deep breath and relax. Winemaking is an exercise in patience. Sure, the first few weeks are very exciting!!! After that? It's a lot like watching the grass grow. Only less exciting.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice!!.
I really enjoy drinking and tasting wine, making it on the other hand is a whole other story. the wine making bug bit me hard and now im researching carboys at 2:00 in the morning


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Amen. Taste every step of the way; as much as every day during primary. Taste at least at every racking; I taste at least once a month during aging. I get an idea of how it is developing and can see the clarity in a glass - extremely useful if aging in barrels or kegs.
> Your taste buds and nose are the most useful wine cellar instruments. A lot of the guys (sorry to be sexist) like to play with the testing instruments (perfectly valid) but it all comes down to smell and taste. No one at your party or barbeque cares about pH or TA, just taste.


So tasting wine everyday during primary fermentation? Ither than educational purposes with regards to following along how your wine is changing during fermentation is there practica advantage? Like should i ignore my alcaholameter and just quite fermentation based on the taste?


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## VinesnBines (Dec 10, 2020)

No, no, test in primary but taste so you can learn and be amazed at the transformation. The taste will change daily and you will be pleased with you achievements.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 10, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> No, no, test in primary but taste so you can learn and be amazed at the transformation. The taste will change daily and you will be pleased with you achievements.


Ah


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## Arne (Dec 11, 2020)

What is a alcaholameter?


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## The green Dragon (Dec 12, 2020)

Arne said:


> What is a alcaholameter?


I forgot the name of the hydrometer it was the bobber thing that measures the specific gravity


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## David Violante (Dec 12, 2020)

It depends on how much you’ve sampled as to what you call it... LOL


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## VinesnBines (Dec 12, 2020)

Oh yes, when barrel sampling, make sure you have topping up wine available...there is always a danger you will sample too much and have empty headspace.


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## Arne (Dec 13, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Oh yes, when barrel sampling, make sure you have topping up wine available...there is always a danger you will sample too much and have empty headspace.


Yep. Empty headspace and motor mouth space. Lottsa sampling. LOL.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 14, 2020)

6 days and counting, she’s bubbling like Susan Montgomery. Lots of action. I had to move the pail to a more temperature stable spot, I did my best to not slosh/disturb it but there was some movement can this be detrimental during primary fermentation?


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## VinesnBines (Dec 14, 2020)

Most folks stir at least twice a day so movement is desirable in primary.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 14, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Most folks stir at least twice a day so movement is desirable in primary.


Awsome ill give it a stir then. Its almost halfway through fermentation according to kit instructions, but i want to check the gravity at 10 days, can’t wait.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 14, 2020)

I also ordered a bottle tree and degasser for a drill. it seems highly recomended to use the drill for successful degassing, I hope it gets here in time!


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## ithink2020 (Dec 14, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> Awsome ill give it a stir then. Its almost halfway through fermentation according to kit instructions, but I want to check the gravity at 10 days, can’t wait.



You can check the SG anytime you like. I just moved my Pinot Noir into Secondary. I was testing the SQ every couple of days.


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## VinesnBines (Dec 14, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> Awsome ill give it a stir then. Its almost halfway through fermentation according to kit instructions, but i want to check the gravity at 10 days, can’t wait.


Check SG daily.



The green Dragon said:


> I also ordered a bottle tree and degasser for a drill. it seems highly recomended to use the drill for successful degassing, I hope it gets here in time!



Check out this thread: Wine Degassing Tool?

I don't bother with de-gassing; time works best. If I have a little residual CO2 in the bottle, decanting works perfectly.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 14, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Check SG daily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ill check it out, even though i fear leaving the beginners section, and being slapped up side the head and sent back here where i belong


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## David Violante (Dec 14, 2020)

There's a lot of great information in all the other threads as well. The "search" feature is very helpful as well, for any specific topic you're interested in reading about. A word of caution... be sure to check the date of what you're reading... I've asked a question in a few threads that were several years old before I asked the question. The folks here are very kind to answer, just be aware. 

I agree with @VinesnBines to check the SG daily so that you know what's going on; that's also a great thread on degassing. Checking temperature is also helpful, to get you in the habit of knowing what is happening, especially if the yeast you're using has a specific range. There's a lot of good reading on here about that as well. A number of folks use a digital infrared thermometer and just scan the must to get an idea. It won't tell you what's going on in the middle of the must though, just the top or the sides of the container. Best to mix it all up and then take a reading, if you're going to do it that way. I have a mead that has just finished, and the several ways I knew it was complete was SG of 0.998 for two to three days, few signs of outward CO2 production, and temperature drop from 73 to 68.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 14, 2020)

David Violante said:


> There's a lot of great information in all the other threads as well. The "search" feature is very helpful as well, for any specific topic you're interested in reading about. A word of caution... be sure to check the date of what you're reading... I've asked a question in a few threads that were several years old before I asked the question. The folks here are very kind to answer, just be aware.
> 
> I agree with @VinesnBines to check the SG daily so that you know what's going on; that's also a great thread on degassing. Checking temperature is also helpful, to get you in the habit of knowing what is happening, especially if the yeast you're using has a specific range. There's a lot of good reading on here about that as well. A number of folks use a digital infrared thermometer and just scan the must to get an idea. It won't tell you what's going on in the middle of the must though, just the top or the sides of the container. Best to mix it all up and then take a reading, if you're going to do it that way. I have a mead that has just finished, and the several ways I knew it was complete was SG of 0.998 for two to three days, few signs of outward CO2 production, and temperature drop from 73 to 68.


Thank you. I checked out the degassing thread amazing info. im really excited about this whole thing and really appreciate everyones willingness to comment or answer questions. And questions will likely be all I have for the foreseeable future. Can’t wait to help out a newbie one day too!


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## The green Dragon (Dec 16, 2020)

So its up to 8 days now and im procrastinating i dont want to open my primary fermenter and stir it and check it, i know it sounds stupid but honestly im kinda locked here i know i have to but its bubbling and everything is going good Im so scared of ruining my first batch. “Im going to post my SG on here tomorrow”. There now im accountable and will have to do it.


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## ithink2020 (Dec 16, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> So its up to 8 days now and im procrastinating i dont want to open my primary fermenter and stir it and check it, i know it sounds stupid but honestly im kinda locked here i know i have to but its bubbling and everything is going good Im so scared of ruining my first batch.



I have learned that Winemaking is very forgiving. As long as you remember to sanitize, you have nothing to worry about. However, I remember being scared of ruining my first few batches as well. 



The green Dragon said:


> “Im going to post my SG on here tomorrow”. There now im accountable and will have to do it.



I'll be waiting to hear what the number is.


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 16, 2020)

I second this! especially taste more than once since flavor changes after brushing teeth, after eating sweet foods, after eating proteins, etc


winemaker81 said:


> @The green Dragon, YOU are why I spend time in the beginner forum. As much as I enjoy talking to experienced wine makers, the exuberance of beginners is invigorating!
> 
> First advice: take a deep breath and relax. Winemaking is an exercise in patience. Sure, the first few weeks are very exciting!!! After that? It's a lot like watching the grass grow. Only less exciting.
> 
> ...


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## The green Dragon (Dec 17, 2020)

Ok tried it. i opened the primary fermenter gave it a stir, i tasted it.
It smells wonderful the color is so beautiful even though its not clear and the carbonation is intense, then i dumped what was left in my glass only to realize now it’s contaminated
There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks. Any tricks to keeping foam down when taking a SG reading?


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## ithink2020 (Dec 17, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> Ok tried it. i opened the primary fermenter gave it a stir, i tasted it.
> It smells wonderful the color is so beautiful even though its not clear and the carbonation is intense, then i dumped what was left in my glass only to realize now it’s contaminated
> There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks. Any tricks to keeping foam down when taking a SG reading?



I wouldn't worry too much about it. I always sanitize my hydrometer and cylinder and dump the sample back into the must. 

It looks like at about 1.010.


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## VinesnBines (Dec 17, 2020)

I agree, you appear to be 1.010. 

You didn't contaminate the wine. The alcohol level is high enough to kill off he tiny bits of bacteria. Next time, take a smaller amount to taste.

The foam will settle after a few minutes. Leave it for 5 or 10 minutes. Anyway, right now you are watching for dropping SG not precise numbers.


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 17, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> then i dumped what was left in my glass only to realize now it’s contaminated, , ,
> There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks.


I always dump the cylinder back into the fermentor, and stopped sanitizing cylinder/ hydrometer over ten years ago, ,,, it is cleaned when put away
The rate of change on hydrometer units is equal therefore we can project an imaginary line from the wine surface to measure. ie 1.010. I have three hydrometers, a narrow range and my mom’s agree, my wine store hydrometer is off by 0.002 from the others, 
,, there is error and all we are looking for is the relative change from the last reading.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 17, 2020)

I use a Fermtech wine thief -- it's large enough in diameter than I can draw a sample, drop in the hydrometer and check SG, then put the entire sample back in the fermenter with almost no air contact. And you can reserve a bit to sample ...

I don't normally taste during primary fermentation, but I do at every racking. The technical term for this is "quality control".


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## David Violante (Dec 18, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks. Any tricks to keeping foam down when taking a SG reading?



Agree with everyone here as well... you should also gently spin the hydrometer or twirl it back and forth a couple of times to get any CO2 bubbles off. That having been said, you’re really just looking for major change at this point and not small incremental changes. I like the wine thief idea by @winemaker81. I usually taste at every check as well. It really helps you understand what’s going on.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 18, 2020)

David Violante said:


> That having been said, you’re really just looking for major change at this point and not small incremental changes.


Agreed. During fermentation, the big question is "is it done?". For most wines, if the SG is above 0.998, it's not, and all you need a rough reading to determine how close to "done" fermentation is. [Allowing for the fact that the yeast will do what it wants, not what you want.]

Another check point is when 1/3 of the fermentation is done, many folks add more nutrient. If the OG was 1.090, anything close to 1.060 is the target, and if it's off by a few degrees in either direction, it doesn't matter.

IMO, the first and last readings are the critical ones where I want accuracy.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 21, 2020)

Sg was 1.000 yesterday hopefully racking soon. 
Looking for .996


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## The green Dragon (Dec 23, 2020)

Ok so .995 I did my very first rack!! Added the sorbate and the sulphites and degassed a bit with a spoon (going with the recommended advice of just time) no buubling now whatsoever so i must have stopped fermentation successfuly I also cold crashed it too so it doesn’t oxidize. Today I will be adding the keisosol and included clearing agent.
Following the kit instructions on this first batch, but it seems like something is a miss i thought it would take much longer i was hoping to bulk age for like six months, but all the things the kit say seams counter intuitive My next batch I want to mess with it a bit and boost the alcohol high enough that it can sit on a shelf for ten years.


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## VinesnBines (Dec 23, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> Ok so .995 I did my very first rack!! Added the sorbate and the sulphites and degassed a bit with a spoon (going with the recommended advice of just time) no buubling now whatsoever so i must have stopped fermentation successfuly I also cold crashed it too so it doesn’t oxidize. Today I will be adding the keisosol and included clearing agent.
> Following the kit instructions on this first batch, but it seems like something is a miss i thought it would take much longer i was hoping to bulk age for like six months, but all the things the kit say seams counter intuitive My next batch I want to mess with it a bit and boost the alcohol high enough that it can sit on a shelf for ten years.


Frist, I wouldn't add the keisosol and chitosan at this point. If you bulk age for 6 months, it will clear on it's own. I've made that kit with tweaks three times and never used clearing agents.
Second, cold crashing won't prevent oxidation. Keep your carboy topped up to one inch or so from the stopper or bung to prevent oxidation and keep it in the dark. 
Third, don't worry about the kit directions.
Fourth, I don't know that a kit wine will ever last 10 years on a shelf.

Just put that batch to bed for the next three months and start your next batch. In three months, add more Kmeta. You have permission to taste now and then but keep it topped up.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 23, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Frist, I wouldn't add the keisosol and chitosan at this point. If you bulk age for 6 months, it will clear on it's own. I've made that kit with tweaks three times and never used clearing agents.
> Second, cold crashing won't prevent oxidation. Keep your carboy topped up to one inch or so from the stopper or bung to prevent oxidation and keep it in the dark.
> Third, don't worry about the kit directions.
> Fourth, I don't know that a kit wine will ever last 10 years on a shelf.
> ...


What do you top it up with if all the wine is in the carboy? Can i use any wine from a bottle of the same wine type, or water?
Also Whats Kmeta?


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## VinesnBines (Dec 23, 2020)

Get a bottle of cheap Cab Sav to top up with; seriously cheap stuff is fine. Kmeta is the sulfites you used, Potassium Metabisulphite. You can get it anywhere you get wine making supplies. You use 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons. Since you just added the packet of sulfites, don't add more for at least three more months.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 23, 2020)

@The green Dragon, did the SG hit 0.995 and you immediately racked, degassed, and added K-meta/sorbate? If so, that's not _quite _what you want to do.

Do not sweat it. You haven't ruined your wine. If fermentation wasn't 100% done, it was close enough.

Fermentation is not necessarily complete at 0.995. I've had wines go to 0.990 -- this depends on grape type, red vs. white, ABV, etc. I don't know that anyone can give you a firm answer regarding why one fermentation stops at 0.997 while another stops at 0.990.

For kits, I typically rack between 1.010 and 1.000, moving the wine to a carboy with head space, as fermentation is not done, and give it a good stir to ensure there is a CO2 cushion. If I thought the fermentation was done? I'd do the same.

From there I give the wine 3 to 10 days to complete fermentation -- depending on the SG when I racked, the amount of activity in the airlock, AND the amount of sediment that is dropping. When fermentation is done, sediment drop is heavier.

Then I check the SG, and if it's 0.994 or lower, I call it done. If it's above 0.994, I give it a few days. Then I rack, degas, and add the fining agent.

It sounds like your SG hit 0.995 and you went gonzo!

If so, yeah, I'm laughing -- but with you, not at you. Exuberance and passion are beautiful things.

My son's first wine, a kit Shiraz, hit 1.000 and he went gonzo. A week later he asked me about it. OOPS! The fermentation was slow enough that the sorbate/sulfite prevented a it from progressing. [DO NOT count on this happening if the ferment is not 100% done -- popping corks in the rack is the more likely outcome!]

He was very unhappy with the outcome, as like me he likes his reds bone dry. However, 6 months after bottling the wine tastes pretty darn good! It wasn't what he planned for, but it worked out well. Very few of his friends are dry wine drinkers, so most are really happy with it.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 23, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> Fourth, I don't know that a kit wine will ever last 10 years on a shelf.


I made a *Apple-Riesling Fun Wine* that I chaptalized to 11.7% ABV go 7.5 years. Given that the Fun Wines are cheap kits, I'm totally surprised, but not unhappy!

@The green Dragon, if you have any of your first batch left a year after bottling, I'll be surprised. Until you're making wine, you don't realize how fast it "evaporates".

Think about it -- you bottle a carboy and get 25 bottles. If you open 1 bottle per week, that entire batch is gone in less than 6 months.


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## The green Dragon (Dec 23, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> @The green Dragon, did the SG hit 0.995 and you immediately racked, degassed, and added K-meta/sorbate? If so, that's not _quite _what you want to do.
> 
> Do not sweat it. You haven't ruined your wine. If fermentation wasn't 100% done, it was close enough.
> 
> ...


Yeah i went gonzo i was tottally excited and just went for it. I like dry reds I take it thats not what I’m gonna get? This was helpful I’ll be doing the extra racking and checking sg more often next time!


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## The green Dragon (Dec 23, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I made a *Apple-Riesling Fun Wine* that I chaptalized to 11.7% ABV go 7.5 years. Given that the Fun Wines are cheap kits, I'm totally surprised, but not unhappy!
> 
> @The green Dragon, if you have any of your first batch left a year after bottling, I'll be surprised. Until you're making wine, you don't realize how fast it "evaporates".
> 
> Think about it -- you bottle a carboy and get 25 bottles. If you open 1 bottle per week, that entire batch is gone in less than 6 months.


So why cant i just add more sugar and yeast to eat it? Isn’t there a direct correlation between abv and how long it will cellar, or am I missing some other factors ?


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## The green Dragon (Dec 23, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I made a *Apple-Riesling Fun Wine* that I chaptalized to 11.7% ABV go 7.5 years. Given that the Fun Wines are cheap kits, I'm totally surprised, but not unhappy!
> 
> @The green Dragon, if you have any of your first batch left a year after bottling, I'll be surprised. Until you're making wine, you don't realize how fast it "evaporates".
> 
> Think about it -- you bottle a carboy and get 25 bottles. If you open 1 bottle per week, that entire batch is gone in less than 6 months.


I have a feeling you are right, that is if this batch turns out drinkable. 
it might end up down the drain to reuse the bottles,


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## winemaker81 (Dec 24, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> So why cant i just add more sugar and yeast to eat it? Isn’t there a direct correlation between abv and how long it will cellar, or am I missing some other factors ?


ABV, acid, sugar, and fruit quality all add into longevity. I can't speak intelligibly on the subject except for the basics.

Low end kits, like Fun Wines, are more concentrate than juice, and in my experience they do not have the shelf life of higher end kits. Given that Fun Wines typically come out 7% ABV, the longevity expectations are even lower.

Based upon my understanding, jacking the ABV up to table wine levels should not have been enough. In my case, the Riesling had higher acid and there was some residual sugar. Add it all up, and it worked. I could make another batch today and not get that longevity. It may be that Dionysus smiled upon my batch and blessed it.

Many beginners start with the expectation they're going to make a wine that lasts 25 years. It's an unrealistic expectation, as very few wines have that kind of longevity. If I have a few bottles left at the 7 year mark, I call that good! The longest I've had is a metheglin where the last bottle was 10 years old.

If your batch lasts 2 years? Call it good and make some more!


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## dmw_chef (Dec 24, 2020)

The green Dragon said:


> I also cold crashed it too so it doesn’t oxidize.



Solubility of gasses in fluid increases as fluids get colder; cold crashing actually increases risk of oxidation.


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## Sailor323 (Dec 25, 2020)

I seriously doubt that any kit wine would last 15 years. It has been pointed out that ABV, acid, tannins, fruit quality, vinification techniques, grape variety all contribute to how long a wine might last. Wine kits take most of that out of the equation for the home winemaker. Face it, the best grapes are saved for the best wines, not concentrates. I recently opened a 19 year old Concord that was very good and I have a few bottles of decent Foch from 2005. Those are the exceptions and certainly not kit wines. I would expect 5 years for a kit wine. Kits do not yield fine wines, they do yield very decent, pleasant wines at a good price.


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 25, 2020)

A guess is that surviving to old age has as much to do with dumb luck as anything else since we don’t run kits as if a science experiment, ,, 

My example is mom’s 1978 black raspberry which was cleaned out of her basement in 2001 or ‘02 when I took her carboys. First of all the carboy had a good solid seal, (a peach next to it leaked and was a wonderful peach vinegar). Flavor was excellent, it lived in a cool farmhouse basement/ dark/ minimal ullage/ was never opened/ and if I was guessing the metabisulphite probably started on the high side when last racked in ‘79. Finally we had raspberries on the farm so mom probably ran high on the pounds fruit per gallon (high flavor/ acid). ,,, _all these are technical choices which we can control._

Kits, ,,, if we had the motivation we could do the technical things, push the pH lower/ run the solids high (as if grown in a dry AVA), let it in a sealed carboy in a cool, dark wine cave/ run the metabisulphite high. ,,, We don’t determine the starting flavor (processing damage to fruit flavors before we bought the kit), ,,, we control how fast flavor is lost once we make it.


Sailor323 said:


> I seriously doubt that any kit wine would last 15 years. It has been pointed out that ABV, acid, tannins, fruit quality, vinification techniques, grape variety all contribute to how long a wine might last. Wine kits take most of that out of the equation for the home winemaker. Face it, the best grapes are saved for the best wines, not concentrates. I recently opened a 19 year old Concord that was very good and I have a few bottles of decent Foch from 2005. Those are the exceptions and certainly not kit wines. I would expect 5 years for a kit wine. Kits do not yield fine wines, they do yield very decent, pleasant wines at a good price.


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## The green Dragon (Jan 1, 2021)

Ok so the abc cab is aging now. Im going to start a merlot, and a shiraz. We will see what happens. Ill keep you up to date on the progress of the first batch abc cab


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## The green Dragon (Jan 14, 2021)

Just want to make sure im reading my hydrometer right. Is this .996?


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## sour_grapes (Jan 14, 2021)

The green Dragon said:


> Just want to make sure im reading my hydrometer right. Is this .996?



Looks more like 0.994 to me, i.e., your stick appears closer to the 0.990 line than the 1.000 line. But I could be misreading where you think you are pointing.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 14, 2021)

I agree with Paul -- it looks like 0.994. I don't like the color coded hydrometers, all the pictures make it appear they're harder to read.

There is a thread on *reading the hydrometer*. It's worth reading.


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## Bossbaby (Jan 14, 2021)

looks like .994 the .990 starts at the longer line under it.


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