# 2012 Chilean Carmenere



## sebring96hbg (Apr 30, 2012)

Hello!

First post, finally! I bought two pails and one lug of Carmenere from Harford Vineyard in MD. After a thorough search, I could not find any place closer to the suburbs of Harrisburg, PA. The quality of the lug of Carmenere grapes looked very good and were kept in cold storage at Harford until pick-up. Harford is a nice operation run by friendly people.

The must is fermenting in a 20 gallon Brute clone (Huskee brand) that I bought at a restaurant supply store. The brix and TA started at 22.5 and 7.0 g/l. respectively. 

I am getting a Hanna Checker pH meter; so, I can feel a little more confident about the post-alcohol fermentation TA test. This is my first attempt with fresh juice after several WE kit wines.

I am following a schedule of staggered nutrient additions using Fermaid-K (2 x 6.25g). I had pitched D254. I dosed the 13.5 gallon must with pectic enzyme (2 tablespoons plus two teaspoons) and k-meta (1/2 teaspoon) 12 and 24 hours, respectively, prior to pitching. When I punch down the cap and stir the lees, I am surprised by how noisy the fermentation is.

This has been fun so far. I wish I had started doing this sooner.

Cheers,
Joe


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## harleydmn (Apr 30, 2012)

I got 2 buckets of Sauv Blanc from them, very nice operation and good people.


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## roblloyd (May 1, 2012)

I just bottled my 2011 Carmenere this past weekend. I think it's going to be fantastic in another year. Right now it's good but it needs more time before becoming awesome! Good luck with it.


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## sebring96hbg (May 2, 2012)

Yesterday, I added the second and final addition of Fermaid-K at 6.25g based on an estimated 13.5 gallon must. This morning, the must weighs in at 10 brix after pitching yeast Sunday evening.

My plan is to use oak spirals during MLF. Should I use American or French medium toast? Please advise.

Cheers,
Joe


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## bzac (May 2, 2012)

You should use the spirals during aging once the wine is stable post mlf.
No need to complicate mlf , and there is no advantage to doing the two at the same time

As for American or French , if you like bolder oak with more vanilla use American , nuttier softer oak? Use French.


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## sebring96hbg (May 2, 2012)

Thanks bzac!


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## shoebiedoo (May 2, 2012)

bzac said:


> You should use the spirals during aging once the wine is stable post mlf.



Is there really that much improvement in spirals over beans, to justify the extra expense?


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## Runningwolf (May 2, 2012)

Great questions and thanks for the answer Zac as I am getting readdy to do an MLF and add super ferment as soon as my red's hit 5 brix. I was thinking about oaking at the same time but now I will wait. I am doing French spirals with a touch of american chips. Instructions with spirals say two per 6 gallon. I am going with one per 6 gallon.


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## sebring96hbg (May 2, 2012)

Runningwolf said:


> Great questions and thanks for the answer Zac as I am getting readdy to do an MLF and add super ferment as soon as my red's hit 5 brix. I was thinking about oaking at the same time but now I will wait. I am doing French spirals with a touch of american chips. Instructions with spirals say two per 6 gallon. I am going with one per 6 gallon.





I was going to follow the More Wine PDF on red wines which suggested adding oak at the same time as MLF (page 25).



> Oak: Adding oak to the MLF is a great idea for a variety of reasons. It starts the integration of the oak into the wine a little earlier, and the impact of the ML bacteria helps the wood‟s contribution to blend nicely into the wine. In addition, the crevices of the wood create an environment that is excellent for microbial growth. (For more information about using oak in wine, see section 10.6)



http://www.morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wredw.pdf

There may be some cons to this approach of which I am simply not aware.


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## sebring96hbg (May 4, 2012)

Currently, it is at 2 brix, 3.5 pH and 6.3 g/l TA.


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## sebring96hbg (May 6, 2012)

Late last night, I transferred the must from the primary to the carboys when my hydrometer read 0 brix. I found the Rubbermaid must scoop at a restaurant supply store to gently splash rack into the sanitized juice buckets fitted with a strainer bag to fllter out the seeds and skins from the 18 lbs of grapes. I squeezed out the must from the skins in the strainer bag by hand, wearing sanitized latex gloves from the drug store. I filled a 6.5 and a 6 gallon carboy plus a 750 ml wine bottle. I left behind some really yeasty must that might halfway fill the outer ring at the bottom of the Brute fermenter - maybe a quart or so. Though I had a sanitized 200 micron EZ Strainer on stand-by, I opted against transferring the dregs. 

Would it have been harmful to transfer this at this point? 

This morning, I see a steady light stream of bubbles rising. Is this typical while waiting the 24 to 48 to rack off the gross lees before starting MLF?

Also, any concerns about doing an MLF with a 3.5 pH and 6.3 g/l TA?

Thanks!


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## ibglowin (May 6, 2012)

Sounds like things are progressing nicely and what your seeing is either the last bit of fermentation or its already starting to release CO2. No MLF concerns, those are good numbers for MLB. Just make sure your wine is ~65 degrees or greater for your MLB to take off.


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## ibglowin (May 6, 2012)

The More Wine guide to red wine making is an excellent source of information and I have used it myself. You will have plenty of time to add the oak so I would wait until MLF has finished up then add your oak at that time.


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## sebring96hbg (May 6, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Sounds like things are progressing nicely and what your seeing is either the last bit of fermentation or its already starting to release CO2. No MLF concerns, those are good numbers for MLB. Just make sure your wine is ~65 degrees or greater for your MLB to take off.




Thanks! As this seems to be working out as fine as I had hoped, it's time to upgrade that test kit syringe to a burette. As much as the opposable thumb is awesome, it lacks that fine control at the crucial moment just before 8.2 pH -aaargh.

And I will keep things simple by adding oak after MLF.


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## PCharles (May 6, 2012)

It sounds like you guys are ahead of our supplier here down in NC. The latest word is that the frozen buckets and grapes are due in this coming week. I bought two types. The first is the Chilean Carmenere and the other is a Chilean Malbec. Your thread here certainly is giving me food for thought. 

Cheers, 
PCharles


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## sebring96hbg (May 7, 2012)

I added the MLB and Opti-Mal. Current readings are 3.57 pH and 5.25 g/l TA. It seems likely based on my reading that I will need to add tartaric acid after MLF as pH will likely change to about 3.7.

And, oof, did the gross lees stink!


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## ibglowin (May 7, 2012)

Tartaric should really be added up front prior to fermentation so it goes through the same process the rest of the wine goes through. I wouldn't mess with it unless MLB really lowers the acid by a lot, those numbers are very respectable.


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## sebring96hbg (May 12, 2012)

I appreciate the comments which provide experience in addition to all the reading I have done. I plan on testing completion of MLF at the two month mark. And when completed, I will taste and then test for pH and TA again.


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## sebring96hbg (May 13, 2012)

I retested yesterday after calibrating my Hanna Checker with fresh buffers. Current readings on the top up bottle are 3.63 pH and 5.2 g/l TA. I previously used Wyeast MLB and Opti Malo Plus for MLF. I saw some Lallemand charts showing MLF completing within two weeks for a red wine with a pH of 3.68 when using Opti Malo Plus nutrients.

So, I am going to test for MLF completion sooner. I will also order another bottle of NaOH to retest TA.


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## sebring96hbg (May 19, 2012)

I received my new bottle of NaOH in the mail and locally picked up a glass wine thief to test TA again and to check MLF using an Accuvin quick test. The numbers are 3.61 pH, 7.0 g/l TA and about 110 mg/l MLF. This is day 22 overall. AF took 8 days to achieve 0 brix with punching and stirring 3X per day and 2 staggered additions of Fermaid. This is day 12 of MLF using Wyeast MLB and Opti Malo Plus.

I bought the NaOH from Midwest Supplies in addition to the Accuvin malic acid test kit. I used a calibrated Hanna Checker pH meter to test for pH and TA. I am surprised by the jump in TA. My original NaOH bottle had a Grape and Granary private label and was packaged with their basic acid testing kit, while the new bottle from Midwest has a National Biochemicals Corp. label. At this point, I do not have any confidence in my prior TA results.

As an aside, I opted for the Bordeaux blend oak cubes from Midwest instead of the spirals. These will be added after MLF is completed.


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## sebring96hbg (May 20, 2012)

MartyYule said:


> Your confidence should be increased with fresh chemicals and PH buffers for calibration. I don't have any faith in a chart that tells you how long MLF should last based on PH. That said you should invest in some Potassium Acid Phthalate from Piwine.com It will come with a Tech Sheet to guide you in standardizing your NAOH. The nice part of this is two fold. Using it tells you your your NaOH is at its proper strength and second it also allows you to develop a multiplier factor so you can use a weakened solution and still enable you to get a true TA reading. Contrary to your testing, TA results using a weakened solution would indicate a higher TA as it takes more to reach the end point. Which is opposite than what you are reporting. I believe the bump up in TA is a result of the loss of buffering that Potassium in the grape has on TA testing prior to fermentation.




MartyYule,

Thanks. I have been researching posts on old NaOH. I agree getting that reagent is the next step. That's the only way I will know the normality as NaOH weakens over time. 

And thanks for pointing out the potassium affect, I spent some time reading up on that.

I will test MLF again in 4 weeks.


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## kwb1963 (May 22, 2012)

Sebring, thanks for keeping such a careful log of your progress here on the forum. Reading your posts and the responses from other members is very helpful. I may have missed it in your posts, but where do you buy your winemaking supplies?

Ken


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## sebring96hbg (May 22, 2012)

kwb1963 said:


> Sebring, thanks for keeping such a careful log of your progress here on the forum. Reading your posts and the responses from other members is very helpful. I may have missed it in your posts, but where do you buy your winemaking supplies?
> 
> Ken



Ken,

I have purchased some locally at Scotzins and online at Grape and Granary (D254 yeast, MLB and Opti Malo Plus), Midwest Supplies and Presque Isle.

A fun project I worked on recently involved getting gondola paint from Presque Isle to rehab the basin of a Marchisio #35 press I scored for cheap on Craigslist.

Joe


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## Chateau Joe (May 29, 2012)

We finally got our frozen Chilean juice this past Thursday. I got a carmenere, malbec and a pinot noir. This was my first pinot noir from Chile and I could not get over how much darker the pinot juice is compared to the California pails of pinot that I normally get. I am very excited. 

I had an atomic fermentation. All 3 carboys blew through the air locks. the first night.


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## mvcrews (Jun 1, 2012)

Do you guys know what regions your Chilean juice is coming from? I did a harvest there in there in 2008 and got to see fruit from a bunch of different regions and am curious what is making its way up north. Sounds awesome though.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jun 1, 2012)

The new AVA this year for Fresh Grapes ( not sure about Juice ) is from M&M in Hartford is Santa Cruz. Bio Bio valley worked out great last year especially the Malbec but this year I understand it was not a good year there.


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## Chateau Joe (Jun 1, 2012)

Mine came from the Bio Bio. They had a very late harvest this year.


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## carmine (Jun 2, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> The new AVA this year for Fresh Grapes ( not sure about Juice ) is from M&M in Hartford is Santa Cruz. Bio Bio valley worked out great last year especially the Malbec but this year I understand it was not a good year there.


 We just picked up a load of Malbec from M&M this morning from the santa Cruz fantastic grapes from Chile


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## mvcrews (Jun 3, 2012)

How was it from the Bio Bio.. sometimes late is really good sometimes it's really bad...?

I didn't get to see any fruit from bio bio while i was down there but I was very curious. It looks like a pretty unique growing area. 

Santa Cruz was about an hour north from where I worked at gillmore (visit their website if you love flash animation) in the Lancomilla Valle. Those areas are very nice for viticulture and very similar to California. I was surprised how old some of the vines were down there. They had a lot of cab and carmenere grafted on 100 year old rootstock. My favorite was actually the ancient carignane planted by the spanish missionaries. A lot of dry farming too.


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