# SO2 Testing



## Flem (Mar 9, 2011)

Next purchase. Without breaking the bank, what do you recommend for relatively accurate SO2 testing?
Thanks!


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## BobF (Mar 9, 2011)

morewine has a budget A/O setup that I'm using. It's $99 and you'll prolly want to add another 10ml pipette and some addition solutions.

I've used it a number of times - works fine

The drawbacks are time and cleanup. Worthwhile IMO, but it should be considered.

They have the doc and a video available from their site.


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## robie (Mar 9, 2011)

BobF said:


> morewine has a budget A/O setup that I'm using. It's $99 and you'll prolly want to add another 10ml pipette and some addition solutions.
> 
> I've used it a number of times - works fine
> 
> ...



I second this!


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## Flem (Mar 9, 2011)

Is this the one you guys are referring to?

http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/18643/


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## robie (Mar 9, 2011)

Flem said:


> Is this the one you guys are referring to?
> 
> http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/18643/



That's the one! Watch their video on it.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 9, 2011)

This is what I have. It takes about 2 minutes. A little pricey but quick and easy.

http://www.vinmetrica.com/


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## AlFulchino (Mar 9, 2011)

I second Dan's nomination....and because it is so accurate there is rarely if ever a need for taking a test a second time to make sure the first was right..and even less a chance you will be taking three tests and averaging out

easy to use..hands down one of the best things i have added


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## ibglowin (Mar 9, 2011)

The thing about the More Wine A/O rig is the cost of the 25% Phosphoric Acid. Not a problem for me as I have other sources....... 

But once you run out where do do you get refills? (Robie?) The reorders from More Wine are quite expensive.

The A/O rig works great and is the defacto analysis for wineries.


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## Flem (Mar 9, 2011)

Okay guys. Remember, I said, "without breaking the bank" and "relatively accurate". What about the Titrets test kit? Will that get me close enough to provide the wine with adequate, but not too much, protection ?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/so2-test-kit-titrets.html


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## ibglowin (Mar 9, 2011)

Throw a dart. Titrets are about as accurate.........


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## Wade E (Mar 9, 2011)

Accuvin will be OK, not great but OK.


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## ffemt128 (Mar 9, 2011)

Now you guys have me thinking about ordering one of these. I could likely get the solutions locally here if I asked around.


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## Flem (Mar 9, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> Throw a dart. Titrets are about as accurate.........



Mike, are they really that bad/inaccurate?


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## ibglowin (Mar 9, 2011)

Accuvin is more accurate than Titrets. That's not saying much however.....

Neither can hold a candle to the A/O rig (industry standard). The Vinemetrica is the new kid on the block. The "ripper titration method" is not known to be all that accurate which is what the Vinemetrica is based on. I am not dissing the Vinemetrica, just saying/repeating what the literature says.


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## roblloyd (Mar 9, 2011)

Since I'm pretty much just doing kits at this point is this needed for someone like me?
What about a ph tester? Looks like $300 for both. Hate to spend that much if it's only needed for grapes or juice or fruit wines. (like Wades choc/strawberry port)

Unless it's a business expense? Hmmmm give wine to clients for the holidays


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## ibglowin (Mar 9, 2011)

SO2 levels are extremely important. Kits or fresh grapes. Too much and all you can smell is Sulfur. Too little and your wine (especially whites) oxidize too fast.......

I think (S02 levels) are one of the most important things to monitor either way.

If there was a cheaper way that worked (accurate) I would be using it.


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## Wade E (Mar 9, 2011)

Ph is pre adjusted when making from kits so that would be a total waste of money! Non kit wine and it becomes important as if these numbers are off then it can either make your wine taste really flat or even worse make your win e a petri dish. Also since S02 levels are directly related to PH numbers both of these tools go hand in hand when veering from kits. Basically, if your doing a kit and want to keep S02 levels in range you can either do a PH test or just call the wine kits range middle and go with that and youll be close enough.


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## roblloyd (Mar 9, 2011)

Is the vinmetrica only available from them for $245?

If I was to only get 1 tester right now what should it be? SO2 or PH? If PH should be the first which one? I've seen the hanna and another one for around $90.


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## ibglowin (Mar 9, 2011)

Thats easy. SO2. 

But they go hand in hand with pH since SO2 levels are based on pH. I think (personally) that my 1st year wines are flawed with too much Sulfite since I was blindly adding it every 90 days even though it didn't actually need it. But without a pH meter you can't determine the amount of Sulfite to protect the wine.

I love my A/O rig. It does take a little bit of learning curve to perfect however.


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## roblloyd (Mar 9, 2011)

I googled the vinmetrica and found another wine forum managed to get a group buy on them. I think it was about $50 off. Anyone interested?


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## Wade E (Mar 9, 2011)

I think thats an old thread Rob and a few members were in on that!


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## roblloyd (Mar 9, 2011)

I was sort of asking if anyone wanted to start a group buy. I could do the leg work if there is interest.


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## BobF (Mar 10, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> The thing about the More Wine A/O rig is the cost of the 25% Phosphoric Acid. Not a problem for me as I have other sources.......
> 
> But once you run out where do do you get refills? (Robie?) The reorders from More Wine are quite expensive.
> 
> The A/O rig works great and is the defacto analysis for wineries.


 
piwine has phosphoric. I got a liter of 75% from St Louis brewing - $13. That makes 3L of phosphoric for SO2 testing.

I've also used 10% (25ml instead of 10ml) and it works fine.


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## ffemt128 (Mar 10, 2011)

BobF said:


> piwine has phosphoric. I got a liter of 75% from St Louis brewing - $13. That makes 3L of phosphoric for SO2 testing.
> 
> I've also used 10% (25ml instead of 10ml) and it works fine.



http://piwine.com/catalog.html?page...e=flypage.tpl&product_id=16166&category_id=31

There is the link for it.


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## BobF (Mar 10, 2011)

*SO2 probe vs A/O*

I'm not knocking those that bought the probe, but *I* decided to go with A/O b/c a) the SO2 probe is new tech, b) it *still* requires solutions and titration, and c) probe life is and replacement cost are unknowns at this point.

If the SO2 probe was as simple as using a pH probe, and the total cost was in the same ballpark, I would likely have made a different decision.

So far, people that have the new SO2 probe are reporting positive results and are happy with it's cost/performance. As SO2 probe tech evolves I may join them ... time will tell.


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## ibglowin (Mar 10, 2011)

While that looks like a good price through PI Wine they don't quote the shipping cost. 

Anything over 100ml requires special handling by UPS driving up the cost. More Wine has 1L 25% Phosphoric for $65 including shipping. That works out to 100 SO2 test at $0.65 a pop just for the Phosphoric acid.

So the cheap A/O rig is not so cheap if you can't find a local source for Phosphoric Acid. Pros and Cons to both. The Vinemetrica uses chemicals that are currently only available through them. If they go under, what then. Its possible you could end up with a nice meter but no source of reagents. They do say they would give the "recipe" to another source who would then agree to make it up and sell but still. Just something to think about with either route.


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## BobF (Mar 10, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> While that looks like a good price through PI Wine they don't quote the shipping cost.
> 
> Anything over 100ml requires special handling by UPS driving up the cost. More Wine has 1L 25% Phosphoric for $65 including shipping. That works out to 100 SO2 test at $0.65 a pop just for the Phosphoric acid.
> 
> So the cheap A/O rig is not so cheap if you can't find a local source for Phosphoric Acid. Pros and Cons to both. The Vinemetrica uses chemicals that are currently only available through them. If they go under, what then. Its possible you could end up with a nice meter but no source of reagents. They do say they would give the "recipe" to another source who would then agree to make it up and sell but still. Just something to think about with either route.


 
In the other forum, people have discussed phosp acid sourcing ad nauseum. Everything from tile cleaner to having it shipped to local businesses to avoid the hefty shipping.

I had someone pick up the 75% for me. That's 300 tests for $13, or $0.043 per test.

Check out options you have for chemicals before you buy for sure and don't forget that you need NaOH and a small amount of HC1 as well!


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## ibglowin (Mar 10, 2011)

The NaOH and HCL are relatively cheap and not considered hazardous to ship in the concentrations the A/O rig uses.


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## Lurker (Mar 10, 2011)

I was in on the Vinmetrica group buy, best deal I ever made. I used the titrets before and 2 consecutive tests of the same wine were 20-40 ppm diff. Vinmetrica is most accurate.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 10, 2011)

+1 what Lurker said


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## BobF (Mar 10, 2011)

Lurker said:


> I was in on the Vinmetrica group buy, best deal I ever made. I used the titrets before and 2 consecutive tests of the same wine were 20-40 ppm diff. Vinmetrica is most accurate.


 
How long did the first probe last? How much are the solutions?

All things considered, what is the cost per test?


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## Runningwolf (Mar 10, 2011)

Bob the I think the tests run about $0.50 each. This is the link to the products.


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## Wade E (Mar 10, 2011)

I dont go to that other forum much if ever. Has anyone had to replace the probe yet?


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## Runningwolf (Mar 10, 2011)

I believe one person had a defective one that was promptly replaced but I haven't heard of any others.


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## Wade E (Mar 10, 2011)

Thats what I thought, just making sure.


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## BobF (Mar 11, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> I believe one person had a defective one that was promptly replaced but I haven't heard of any others.


 
My question isn't about defective units, but about normal useful life. You know, the same way pH probes have a limited life.

I'm *assuming* that the $.50/test is based on solution cost w/o including the cost of the equipment over it's expected life.

IIRC, the probe group buy was right at $200. If the probe last 12-18 months and costs $100. to replace, then the equipment cost becomes significant. $100 and 12-18 are made up numbers for illustrative purposes. The *real* numbers are obviously unknown.

I'm not knocking early adopters - I've been an early adopter many times in my life. It's just something I think should be considered when making a purchase decision like this.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 11, 2011)

Bob I am not a chemist, just a wanna be. If it was not for the Vinmetrica I guarantee you I would not be testing for s02 now are for a long time. So after reading the first couple of reviews from reliable winemakers I jumped on it. Now I am understanding another part of the hobby and realize my wines were short on sulfite's. Of coarse if someone is just doing kits you can eliminate a lot of these tests.


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## BobF (Mar 11, 2011)

Dan -

I agree testing is better than not testing. I'm simply explaining my rationale for going the A/O route instead of Vinmetrica.

The fact that you didn't consider A/O as viable is a good data point for potential buyers of SO2 testing gear, although knowing your pros/cons would be even more helpful.


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## ibglowin (Mar 11, 2011)

The replacement electrodes for the Vinmetrica are online at their website and cost only $45. Thats not too bad and you may be able to find them cheaper online if you can tell what type of electrode they are using (via part number etc.)

If you take care of them and rinse and store them properly you should get years of trouble free service out of one.


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## ibglowin (Mar 11, 2011)

From the Vinmetrica Website:

*The SC-100 uses a polymer-bodied amperometric probe that resists breakage and should never need replacing.*


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## BobF (Mar 11, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> From the Vinmetrica Website:
> 
> *The SC-100 uses a polymer-bodied amperometric probe that resists breakage and should never need replacing.*


 

Lifetime probe - THAT is a great thing!


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