# Is this all roundup damage? I hope I didn't really screw things up.



## TimTheWiner (Aug 25, 2013)

Here are some update pics and I am not liking the looks of things. Some leaves are brown to black around the edges, some look completely dry and curled. Some of the trunk itself even appears drier and less green. I thought I had read that using Roundup was ok as long as I had grow tubes and there is no wind but I really hope I didn't screw myself and this is roundup damage. Worse, can I expect them to recover next spring or is this most likely permanent?


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 25, 2013)

I uploaded all these from the Android app, not sure why it rotated them all horizontally.


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## jamesngalveston (Aug 25, 2013)

I am a pretty avid gardner, and have made the mistake of using round up with a wind that directed it to my tomatoes....they were toast, and so was my okra,squash,peppers,and watermelons...
It looks like the same thing that I had...I just plowed them under , I hope someone says its not roundup burn for your sake..


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## Stressbaby (Aug 25, 2013)

That doesn't look like roundup damage to me. 
Have you fertilized in the past 2-3 weeks? If so, with what?
That marginal leaf burn can be seen with over fertilization.


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## Stressbaby (Aug 25, 2013)

I meant to say that you don't have the wilt you usually see with roundup.


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## Runningwolf (Aug 25, 2013)

I agree, I don't think it's from Roundup. 

Reminds me of a story though if you got the time. I used to work for the orange box. At Christmas time the store manager told a new guy to round up all of the poinsettias (they were scattered around). Well doing as he was told, he mixed up some round up and hit them all with it. That was one of those not so good of days, you'll never forget.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 25, 2013)

Zero fertilization this year, as I just planted this spring. I wanted to wait until the second or third season to fertilize. I was questioning if they were getting enough water, but there were some showeres last week. The white you see is dried up Sevin spray to control the Jap beetles.


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## spaniel (Aug 25, 2013)

On most plants with glyphosate, it nukes the whole plant evenly after going to the root. Yours looks a lot more uneven...perhaps a fungus? Too moist in the grow tubes?

Glyphosate has to hit green to work. Only you can determine if your tubes prevented spray from reaching leaves. Personally I avoid using it until I can trim all foliage from the bottom three feet. It marks life hard with young vines but I have yet to kill one with spray.


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## grapeman (Aug 25, 2013)

Looks more like mildew to me. See the fuzzy growth? That would be downy mildew. You probably did not spray for it this year so I would expect it with all the rain in the Northeast this year.


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## GreginND (Aug 25, 2013)

Roundup results in leaves being curled and malformed. This does not look like roundup damage.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 25, 2013)

Well, I guess the roundup damage is somewhat of a relief, since I would worry about them not coming back in the spring and no I did not spray for any mildew etc. It was VERY wet a lot of May and June although I did not notice any of this until the last few weeks and it has been somewhat average to dry to last month or so. I do agree that there appears to be some mildew of fungal type substance on some of the leaves. Should I spray anything immediately and if not what should I use next year and how often, after every rain?


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## grapeman (Aug 25, 2013)

What you need is to develop a spray routine. Check with extension as to what is recommended there. I could tell you what I use, but it may not be approved for CT. The important thing is to get the program and stick to it, especially when it gets wet.


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## vernsgal (Aug 25, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> I agree, I don't think it's from Roundup.
> 
> Reminds me of a story though if you got the time. I used to work for the orange box. At Christmas time the store manager told a new guy to round up all of the poinsettias (they were scattered around). Well doing as he was told, he mixed up some round up and hit them all with it. That was one of those not so good of days, you'll never forget.


LOL!! okay that's someone who should win a Darwin award


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## mgmarty (Aug 25, 2013)

That looks like leaf burn from spraying Sevin in the sun. I did the same things to my apple tree this spring. If that's what it is, they will come back fine.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 25, 2013)

So is Sevin only suppose to be applied on overcast days or around sunset?


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## Pumpkinman (Aug 25, 2013)

All foliar applications, fertilizers, fungicides and insecticides should be applied either early morning or in the late afternoon. I won't spray early morning, too much potential for burning. As soon as the sun is off of my plants, 5:45 pm, I bust out my Stihl SR 450 and spray with confidence.


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## LoneStarLori (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm leaning toward lack of water and a possible fungus. We have been under quite a drought here and mine look pretty much the same. They are not gonners though.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 25, 2013)

Ok, at least I won't have a crop for a few years so hopefully I can learn the lessons now. Should I go ahead and water in the next few days? On a side note, is it true that next spring I should be cutting them back all the way down to the ground and just leaving 3-4 buds. It seems like ac shame to see all that growth go to waste but AA vineyards I think said it will create a stronger trunk in the long run.


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## mgmarty (Aug 25, 2013)

I thought the same thing about taking them back to one or two buds in the spring. But they exploded, and grew like crazy. I didn't cut back a couple just to see, and regreted it.


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## trufflehunter (Aug 26, 2013)

I had some round up damage on one of my rows. Looked very different to this, leaves still green but curled. Took a year to recover but now going strong again. This is something else i believe.


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## TimTheWiner (Aug 26, 2013)

Ok, thanks for all the great replies. I will have to make sure to cut back late winter or early spring, I'll have to stop with the Sevin for a while and see if I can apply something for the mildew/fungus and water ASAP


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## Tess (Aug 26, 2013)

looking at the underside of the leaves it does looks like Mildew to me also. 
Its probably because water set in the tubes on the plant longer. I dont understand anyone using round up on anything now days. Why use a harsh chemical that cost you a fortune when straight white vinegar does the same thing on a HOT SUNNY DAY? Im just sayin!!
ok..ok, Im done preaching the straight white vinegar and small tiller thing. Good Luck with the plants!!


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## GreginND (Aug 26, 2013)

Glyphosate is safe and effective if used properly. Vinegar just doesn't work and would be much more expensive to cover an acre of weeds.


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## Tess (Aug 26, 2013)

GreginND said:


> Glyphosate is safe and effective if used properly. Vinegar just doesn't work and would be much more expensive to cover an acre of weeds.



Well as I said, I don grow grapes but I do use it with great success in my garden. I can not afford round up. I can get a gallon of vinegar at Wally world for a couple bucks but I can see where it might be hard to get as much to cover an acre. It really does work though


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## HillPeople (Aug 31, 2013)

Not roundup damage IMHO Shockwave. We had blue tubes on 100 vines planted in May and things were moving along fine until that 2 weeks of rain and then the heatwave at the end of June and beginning of July. Prime conditions for growing fungus, so we took all the blue tubes off early to let the vines dry out. They slowly recovered with the exception of the Louise which were severely set back. 

You won't regret cutting the feeble vines back to 8" or so with 2-3 buds next March. They will take off very nicely and then as Grapeman said you can start a spray routine to keep the fungus and mildew at bay.

We just inoculated the vineyards with 5 million beneficial nematodes (Hb) to try to breakup the Japanese Beetle life cycle a little for next year. Picking 100-200 a day morning and night gets a little old, but I'm avoiding Seven if it's possible.

It wasn't a favorable summer for the vines, but ours have been putting on an amazing amount of new growth for this late in the season.

Good luck.


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## TimTheWiner (Sep 3, 2013)

Ok good to hear. Looking forward to see this project evolve.


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## Handy Andy (May 9, 2021)

Are Vines partly or completely immune to Roundup? 

Is it OK to spray with roundup after the vines have leaves on them?


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## SheridanVines (May 9, 2021)

Handy Andy said:


> Are Vines partly or completely immune to Roundup?
> 
> Is it OK to spray with roundup after the vines have leaves on them?



They are definitely not immune. The best you can hope for if any hits a leaf is you don’t kill them and they look ugly for a year while they metabolize the glyphosate. Use grow tubes and hill soil around the bottom if you need to use roundup.

there are several brands of glufosinate that will burn leaves but not kill your grapes. Liberty, interline, Rely to name a few.


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## treesaver (May 9, 2021)

I use Liberty, and been very pleased with the results.


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## Handy Andy (May 10, 2021)

SheridanVines said:


> They are definitely not immune. The best you can hope for if any hits a leaf is you don’t kill them and they look ugly for a year while they metabolize the glyphosate. Use grow tubes and hill soil around the bottom if you need to use roundup.
> 
> there are several brands of glufosinate that will burn leaves but not kill your grapes. Liberty, interline, Rely to name a few.



Last year I mostly strimmed the weeds, until all the leaves were off my vines then I sprayed with roundup a couple of times and the weeds seemed to be under control. Until the last month or so when they have started coming back. This is I think due to a fool(me) with a hoe removing one or two weeds losing the top soil and allowing more weed seeds to find a way to the surface

Thanks for the clarification ref roundup, I was wondering about using a selective weed spray, but most of my weeds appear to be broad leafed, not unlike a vine. I will go to the fitofarmaceutica shop and see what they have. 

I am also considering weed matting, if I cant get a spray.


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## SheridanVines (May 10, 2021)

How old are your vines? There are several products you can use to keep weed seed from germinating, but with some of them you can’t get any on new growth. I used Prowl, but chateau (aka valor) would work well too. The thing about weeds is even if you kill them, more will always come with rain. Preemergent chemistry is your best bet to work in tandem with a non selective herbicide like roundup or liberty.


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## Handy Andy (May 10, 2021)

I am not 100% sure ref the ages of the vines some are older than others. I am guessing they age from between 5 and 20 years old in my Verdelho vineyard and less maybe 5 years old in my American tinte and Alverinho vineyards. I didnt ask the previous owner how old they were, when I bought the place. I didnt know to ask the question.

It has rained a lot more and is cooler than usual, due to global warming perhaps, which may be assisting my weeds. 
I wonder if pre-emergence sprays would be effective with the amount of rain we have had this spring?

I am on top of the powdery and downy mildew at the moment, but noticed some of my neighbours vines are looking distinctly sick, not unlike mine were last year.


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## SheridanVines (May 10, 2021)

Preemergent herbicides actually require a certain amount of rain, normally 1/4”-1/2”, to activate in the soil. Large rain events will cause its effectiveness to decrease sooner, but you can reapply later in season to get you through the rest of the year.


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