# Collinwood Grape Co.



## jacksmith (Jul 14, 2011)

Anybody here get grapes from Collinwood Grape Co. in Cleveland? I live in Pittsburgh, so they're not much further from me than Presque Isle would be, and PI doesn't specialize in CA grapes. According to the Cellar Dwellers podcast, Carl at Collinwood gets some pretty good California grapes - northern regions, not central coast.

http://collinwoodgrape.com/

His web site doesn't offer much info and still talks about 2006 grapes.


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## robie (Jul 14, 2011)

Jack, I enjoyed reading your "When Yeast Attacks". Very good job of documenting your exploits. Great photos, too.

You commented about adding two different yeast varieties together. The general rule is that when multiple yeast varieties are combined, one will overpower the other and do ALL the fermentation. They will spend the first period killing each other, then start fermenting. By the time one side has won, it's number may likely be depleted, so it may sometimes take a little more time for fermentation to get started. 

When a winemaker likes the characteristics of two different yeast varieties, he/she will typically split the fermentation into two different fermentors, one yeast variety in each; then combine the results after fermentation ends.

This approach lets you blend selectively to your own taste, rather than just blindly combining one-to-one. Now that's a plus!

I am certainly not one, but I hear this is at least part of the secrets behind some of the great commercial wine makers' success- a little of this yeast's results with a little of that one's.

Thanks for your contributions. Keep up the good work and keep us informed. You have a lot of good data for the rest of us.


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## Runningwolf (Jul 14, 2011)

Jack I have not heard of them but would also be interested in knowing more. Have you gone to Walkers for juice?


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## jacksmith (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback, Robie.

I've since read, as you suggest, that blending yeasts in a single fermenter is not a good idea for the reason you state. In the future I'll be sure to separate if I'm using two yeasts.

I don't recall where I got the idea to use two yeasts. It might be in my notes at home. But when I read it I misinterpreted what was meant by blending yeasts. I also read that some wineries do actually do single-fermenter yeast blends, but they surely know a whole lot more about what they're doing than I do.

According to the Lallemand website, D254 has a "neutral" competitive factor, whereas Syrah has an "active" competitive factor. I'm thinking that if they're both neutral, you could blend them. I think I figured since neither were "sensitive," they might both be able to get the job done. In any event, I had a rapid start to quick, healthy fermentation. I don't think there was much lag time where the yeasts fought it out before getting to work. I did pitch them into different areas of the fermenter and didn't stir them in until the first punch down 12 hours later, at which point a cap had formed.

I probably won't do this again any time soon, mainly because what good is experimenting if you don't have a control to compare it to? I have no idea what impact blending yeasts had, since I don't have wine made from the same grapes but only using single yeasts. Whatever the result, it's all a lot of fun. The wine is coming along well. It just finished MLF this week and I'll be racking it onto some oak spirals tonight. It still has an MLB smell & taste (kind of cheesey), but if you look past that it's jammy, fruity - blackberry and blueberry - with big, big coffee notes. I'm looking forward to the final product.

But for now, I'm also looking forward to the fall harvest... and finding a source for premium wine grapes!


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## jacksmith (Jul 14, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> Jack I have not heard of them but would also be interested in knowing more. Have you gone to Walkers for juice?



I haven't gone to Walkers. I think my main reason is that I want to work with whole clusters, not juice, especially for reds. Walkers does a hot pressing of their reds which I'm not too keen on. They've recently started getting some of their grapes from Gary at Liberty Vineyards. Liberty makes some of the best wine on the Chautauqua-Lake Erie trail, so that bodes well for anyone buying juice at Walkers.

Regarding Collinwood, I learned about them from listening to the Cellar Dwellers podcast. They heap tons of Praise on Carl's ability to get premium quality wine grapes from Northern California, grapes that none of the other Pgh-area dealers can get. I'd like to give it a try, but figured I'd see if anyone on here has used his grapes before.


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## robie (Jul 15, 2011)

Jack,

You may have already seen this document about yeast pairings, but here it is just in case. It will tell you the advantages of different yeasts, so you can think about doing a yeast blend or yeast substitution in the future.

http://www.morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf

I like the BM45 for Brunellos and Pinot Noirs. I like to experiment this way. I often times substitute the yeasts, which come with most kits. Just make sure you add yeast nutrients for those yeasts that require a little extra... BM45 is one of those.


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## jacksmith (Jul 15, 2011)

That's a great link, Robie. I wish I'd have found that sooner!


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## robie (Jul 15, 2011)

jacksmith said:


> That's a great link, Robie. I wish I'd have found that sooner!



Glad you like it and hope it will be helpful for you in the future. 

For those who make wine from kits, the yeast that comes with many wine kits is there because it is very reliable, not always because it makes the best wine. For a new winemaker, reliability is very important.

Something like EC 1118 is sort of the "Mack Truck" of wine yeasts. It will get the job done without having to worry about adding extra nutrients.

Moving to some of the other yeasts will require a little more attention and often more experience, but they can help you tailor your wine to your own liking.

I really like the idea of splitting fermentation into multiple batches, each with a different yeast; then back blending. Some may see this as over-kill; I see it as a learning experience and great fun.


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## jacksmith (Jul 15, 2011)

robie said:


> I really like the idea of splitting fermentation into multiple batches, each with a different yeast; then back blending. Some may see this as over-kill; I see it as a learning experience and great fun.



Yeah, I'm with you. I don't see that process as overkill. I'm not interested in winemaking as a means to acquiring a supply of drinkable wine; I'm interested in learning to make the best wine I can. For me the journey is the destination. I want the end result to be fantastic wine, but I want to know what I did to make it so and why what I did worked.


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## denise (Aug 27, 2012)

*carl in collinwood*

my dad has bought grapes form Carl in collinwood for about 25 years. we are never disappointed with the quality. You do have to keep on top of the kind you want and when they come in. When they come in the go quickly. We make about two barrels a year. 50 gal each. One time my dad went without me and had to help unload the truck! real informal type of place. Before you leave pittsburgh make sure the type you want are in so you dont make the drive for nothing. enjoy!


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## 4score (Sep 1, 2014)

One of the vineyards I source from here in Placer county is also where Collinwood buys. He's getting cab franc there I believe and I can attest for the high quality. His pick is happening this week. I understand his grapes go back to Lodi and get consolidated to refrigerator trucks going east.


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## jjduen (Sep 26, 2014)

I have bought there several times and never had bad. 

Headed there this Sunday.


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