# Blackberry & Raspberry Melomel Help



## the_rayway (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi All,
I'm looking to try my hand at making two small batches of melomel using the fruit in the secondary. It seems like that's the way to go if you want to keep the most of the fruit flavours, from what I've read on the site.

Here's what I'm thinking to start:
3 Gal plain mead
12 Lbs honey
Water to top up
3 Campden tablets
3t yeast nutirent
1t energizer
1.5t pectic enzyme
1.5t acid blend
1116 yeast

I'm thinking I would get that down to 1.020 then rack it into my one gallon jugs on top of the berries:

5lbs blackberries and same raspberries in two different jugs.
Add a bit more pectic & acid blend?

My questions are: should I juice the berries? Or leave them whole? Do I really siphon the mead onto them in the jugs? Will the re-fermentation make them into volcanoes? Suggestions for adjustments to the powders? Do you think I am using enough/not enough/too much fruit?

Any feedback and suggestions from the mead gurus would be really appreciated!
Ray


----------



## mmadmikes1 (Aug 22, 2012)

There will be little need for acid blend with blackberries or raspberries. Test the PH first. I go for 3.4 to 3.6


----------



## the_rayway (Aug 22, 2012)

Still don't have an acid test kit...need to get one of those, but was hoping that I could squeeze by without one for a little while. Am blowing thru the 'budget' hubby set for me really quickly!


----------



## saramc (Aug 22, 2012)

Many mazers opt not to use campden when making mead...just something to consider...the honey tends to do the policing for you. You will need to decide about introducing the campden when adding the berries--are they commercially frozen or fresh/fresh frozen with wild yeast?
But, then again--there are many who opt out on Campden during fermentation of mead.
No reason to add pectic enzyme when making just a basic mead, though you will want to add it once you introduce the berries (which I would introduce when the S.G. has dropped by 2/3, rather than creating a "number"). 
I would also opt out on the acid blend since you are adding the berries. You can pick up an acid test kit for $6-9. 
If you have a steam juicer then you could definitely juice the berries, otherwise I would just keep everything in the primary bucket for another 5-7 days, stirring/gently squeezing at least twice a day and then transfer to carboy/airlock. 
But, that is just me.


----------



## the_rayway (Aug 22, 2012)

Thanks saramc!
I'm basing my recipe off of Terry Garey's book, and she always seems to use campden tabs. The berries are fresh ones that I froze at home, so there is a chance of wild yeast. Do you think I should still use the tabs in this case? Also, how much pectic do you think I should add to each gallon? I thought I remember reading that blackberry can be difficult to clear?

Sadly, no steam juicer, so it'll probably be into primaries for the fruit additions 

Gotta get one of those test kits...


----------



## mmadmikes1 (Aug 22, 2012)

I have never added Campden (KMeta)Never had a problem. you would be better off not adding acid blend with blackberries and raspberries than than adding. If you are going to keep making wine you have to get one. Otherwise you may be making some really lousy wine or mead.


----------



## the_rayway (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks mmadmikes1, looks like it's off to the LHBS for me!


----------



## UBB (Aug 23, 2012)

what would the suggested aging time be for this stuff? 18 months??


----------



## Deezil (Aug 23, 2012)

UBB said:


> what would the suggested aging time be for this stuff? 18 months??



Meads take their sweet time. They take time to ferment, they take time to clear, and they take time to age... 

It'd probably be decent at 18 months, maybe a bit green still.. Probably drinkable at 2 years.. Probably amazing somewhere between 3-5 years

But i refuse to drink anything before its ready to show me what its really made of, so i tend to wait longer than most


----------



## UBB (Aug 23, 2012)

Deezil said:


> Meads take their sweet time. They take time to ferment, they take time to clear, and they take time to age...
> 
> It'd probably be decent at 18 months, maybe a bit green still.. Probably drinkable at 2 years.. Probably amazing somewhere between 3-5 years
> 
> But i refuse to drink anything before its ready to show me what its really made of, so i tend to wait longer than most



That's been my biggest hangup about making a bunch of mead as I have a great local source of ND Honey! It'd be tough to tie up several carboys for 2 years.


----------



## Deezil (Aug 23, 2012)

Once its cleared & you're just bulk aging - you can bottle it if you want the carboys back.. Just let it age in the bottles


----------



## UBB (Aug 23, 2012)

Deezil said:


> Once its cleared & you're just bulk aging - you can bottle it if you want the carboys back.. Just let it age in the bottles


good point


----------



## the_rayway (Aug 23, 2012)

I'm trying to do along the lines of 1-2 batches per month, that way I have a good flow for carboy exchanges without having to find more primaries. 

I'm also figuring on bottling the small batches in 1/2 bottles so I can pop them open at different stages to see what they're like during the aging process. If something tastes really good and seems like it's going to age well - I'll make a bigger batch!


----------



## mmadmikes1 (Aug 24, 2012)

I bottle a cuople bottles out of 6 gallon carboy and age rest in Corney pop kegs. I purge O2 with CO2 and they give me an air tight, O2 free,stable temperature vessel to age in. Mead also is slow to de gas . But some stuff is drinkable at 6 month even if it is not at its best


----------



## the_rayway (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm looking for quality in terms of taste and ageing with my meads/wines. So I'm hoping I can wait till at least 1 year before popping the first taster... 

Will have to look into these kegs you're talking about to see if I can get them up here. That would certainly help with the tasting/ageing!


----------



## fatbloke (Sep 30, 2012)

Too put a few of the points in context......

The campden tablets at the start, generally not necessary. While the sulphite will dissipate after adding it to a must, it's often the cause of an increased lag period prior to signs of the active ferment having started. Plus given honeys natural anti-bacterial, anti-fungal properties, it's not generally necessary, especially as pretty much nothing unwanted survives the primary ferment, especially if you use K1-V1116 (killer factor, so it becomes the dominant yeast very quickly sorting out any issues of possible wild yeasts being present). Sulphites use later on, is to stun any yeasts left over, plus as a anti-oxidant.

If you are worried about wild yeasts, you can always put the fruit into some water, add the campden tablet(s) and the pectic enzyme. Which helps sort out any possible pectin issues, but anecdotally it also helps with colour/flavour extraction too. Don't blitz/pulp/puree fruit, just freeze it for a week, then defrost it and treat with pectolase and sulphites - all the cells should have broken down enough to allow yeast and/or other chems to get to the juice - plus you actually use less pectolase if it's added first, and not during or after the ferment.

Acids in recipes up front aren't necessary either. If you tested the pH of the must after just adding the honey and water together, you'd find that it's already considerably lower than the pH of water/neutral (7.0pH), so you've got an acid environment to help the yeast do their thing. The fruit, especially fruit like raspberry, increases this. 

Hence the addition of acids up front, can hinder or even cause a stuck ferment - meads naturally show quite wild swings in pH, which is to do with the chemistry of the ferment. The suggested recommend, of aeration of the must in early stages not only adds air/O2 to aid yeast development, but it has a side effect that it brings more sediment back into solution which provides the nucleation points that allows the dissolved carbonic acid to attach, producing the bubbles of gaseous CO2 to rise up - this also helps reduce the pH swings in early ferment (which is helpful in prevention of the pH dropping so low that the yeast just stalls - it would seem that the "sweet spot" for pH level is between about 3.2 pH and 3.8 pH). Of course, once the ferment has finished, acids can be added later, to taste. Though I don't like using pre-mixed blends. I adjust using acid that will bring the most out from any added fruit (there are lists of the predominant fruit acids, for the various fruits floating about the net, suggesting which ones to consider). For traditionals, I find I very much prefer the mix that was suggested in Ashton & Duncans now out of print (you can often find it on Amazon market place) book, "Making Mead". It's 2 parts malic, to 1 part tartaric - and yes I mix it myself.

The nature of non-grape fruit means you don't actually need an acid test kit for titration etc, just a cheap pH meter (clearer readings than test papers) or test papers for the wine making range, say ones for testing from 3.0 to 5.0 or 2.0 to 4.0

If you do want to just get the batch(es) to the cleared stage, it's fair to point out that professional wineries bottle age, but they have access to large scale, temperature/climate controlled storage - bulk ageing, that we often use with home brewing is a convenient compromise i.e. storage in bulk reduces the chances of damaging temperature swings we experience at home, throughout the year. Sure, bottle ageing is good, but without a consistent low temp for storage, you can get differences in the finished result from bottle to bottle. MM's suggestion of using corny kegs for bulk ageing also has merit. After all, while additional glass is probably cheaper, corney kegs allow you to bulk age, but also to force carbonate sweet meads (which can be difficult to carbonate if you've had too stabilise to prevent damaging/dangerous re-fermentation, plus stabilising also prevents bottle priming). Plus with the right attachments for the kegs, you can actually serve them direct from the keg and don't need to obtain champagne/sparkling wine bottles, stoppers, wire cages etc etc. You will just pay a bit more for the kegs in the first place - oh and they're usually stainless steel so like glass, they don't affect the ageing mead in any way either......

As for de-gassing (as opposed to the gas release that you see when aerating in the early ferment stages), I usually leave my meads to do that naturally as they clear and/or age. 

You can of course, speed it up some, as there's evidence that a properly de-gassed mead will clear quicker as well. One of the speed ups is to use a "whizz stick" type degassing rod in a drill attachment (the rolling or shaking of a stoppered carboy is often not a good idea because of the physical weight of the fermenter/container). Personally, I find that I prefer to vacuum de-gas. I'm lucky to have an enolmatic vacuum bottler, which can be used, but they're not cheap, whereas a mityvac type hand vacuum pump (they're designed for bleeding the brakes on cars etc) is easily connected to a piece of tube and holed bung and then just pumped to create enough vacuum to pull the CO2 out, as the vacuum drops (a lot of them have a little gauge to see how much vacuum has been developed) you just pump the device a little more, and keep repeating until there is no more CO2 rising out of the wine/mead. The main advantage is that they only generate low levels of vacuum so there's little to no danger of imploding the carboy (don't use one with a plastic fermenter), and they're relatively cheap (and much less laborious to use/do, than using a vacuvin on individual bottles).

Think that's about it for the moment....


----------



## the_rayway (Sep 30, 2012)

Wow, thanks for that Fatbloke!

It seems to be general consensus not to use any chemicals at the beginning. Only to add them, if needed, after the fruit is added post-fermentation. So basic mead to start with: yeast, honey and nutrient in a step stage through the fermentation to keep it going. Thinking that natural degassing will be the way to go since I don't want to rush them.

If I get my wish for Christmas, I'll have enough 3 gallon carboys to bulk age them for a year or so to start. I don't think I can justify getting a co2 majigger just yet, so I'll keep that in mind for the next couple of years.

This is going to be fun.


----------



## the_rayway (Nov 5, 2012)

Got these puppies up and running! More info at: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/notes-my-wine-mead-making-newbie-32900/index3.html

(is that how I attach a link to another thread?)


----------

