# Replicating a 100 point wine...this season’s plan



## NorCal (Aug 30, 2019)

I’ve struggled with what to make this season. I need to tap the brakes on the volume of wine I make this year, which I’m sticking to. I just finished bottling a 2018 barrel of Cabernet Franc and a barrel of 2017 Cabernet Sauvignon that was loaded with Cab Franc, Petite Sirah and Petit Verdot to the point where it was only 66% Cab Sauv. 

The second one, which I call the Bordeaux Blend, is now my second favorite wine I’ve ever made. It really stands out in its nose, dark flavors and now softening tannins. So, I’ve decided to do another blend this year.

The wine I’m doing is to replicate (simulate?) *the blend *of a 100 point wine. 

_2012 Verite le Desir, 100 point wine (Robert Parker).

Le Désir—predominantly Cabernet Franc supported by Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot — shows layers of concentrated fruit, exotic spice, opulent aromatics and a plush suede texture. 

Cab Franc 64%. 39 gallons
Merlo 24%. 14 gallons
Cab Sav 8%. 4.5 gallons
Petite Verdot 4%. 2.5 gallons
_
I’ll pre blend and age everything in a 60 gallon barrel, which will be a little tricky given that not everything will be ready at the same time, but I think I can swing it with the other containers I have at my dispose.

I’m going to be getting the Merlot grapes from a local vineyard next week to kick off the season. I have access to Cab Franc, Petit Verdot and the little Cab Sauv that I need, so unless I find an easier path, it will all be from 2019 grapes, all made this season.


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## 4score (Aug 30, 2019)

I predict this to be you best wine ever made!


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## ibglowin (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks good! Were you actually able to find the varietals and percentages of each (on the 100 point wine)?


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## mainshipfred (Aug 30, 2019)

Norcal, I get your concept but as I'm sure you know replicating those percentages isn't necessarily going to replicate the same wine. My 2018 Meritage I just bottled is fairly equals portions of CS, Merlot and PV with smaller percentages of Malbec, Carmenere and Cab Franc and I think one of my best 3 wines to date.


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## NorCal (Aug 30, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Norcal, I get your concept but as I'm sure you know replicating those percentages isn't necessarily going to replicate the same wine. My 2018 Meritage I just bottled is fairly equals portions of CS, Merlot and PV with smaller percentages of Malbec, Carmenere and Cab Franc and I think one of my best 3 wines to date.



Point taken. When @4score found this 100 point wine, he got the percentages, which were published. We decided to replicate a carboy using Cab Franc and Petit Verdot we made and commercial Merlot and Cab a few years ago. It was wonderful and my case went quite quickly. 

I found that I enjoy making and sharing the wine if there is a story or a purpose behind it. Replicating the 100 will be it’s story.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 30, 2019)

I did a blend with 2017 wines that 'replicates' The Prisoner (before they sold out and made it sweet). I didn't have all the wines that went into The Prisoner, but I think it was 4 out of 6 and the 2 that were missing were both 2 or 3 percent. Anyway, I didn't use the exact percentages, but they were my starting point for bench trials (rounded to the nearest 5%). We liked where we started and tweaked from there.


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## NorCal (Sep 2, 2019)

Busy day. I got 400 pound of Merlot and split the batch. Enough to make the 14 gallons I need and a couple carboys of stand-alone merlot. I then went to the Petite Verdot vineyard and picked 40 pounds of grapes, crushed, destemmed and tossed it in with the 14 gallons worth of Merlot. So two out of the four ferments going. I’ll either toss the Cab Sauv in with the Cab Franc or start it on the Merlot/PV pressings.


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## crushday (Sep 2, 2019)

I, like many others, applaud your efforts. I'm likely driving down the coast from Seattle to LA for Thanksgiving. Are you around that week?


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## NorCal (Sep 2, 2019)

crushday said:


> I, like many others, applaud your efforts. I'm likely driving down the coast from Seattle to LA for Thanksgiving. Are you around that week?



Maybe, shoot me a PM and bring wine to trade


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## crushday (Sep 2, 2019)

NorCal said:


> Maybe, shoot me a PM and bring wine to trade


Sounds great.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 3, 2019)

NorCal said:


> Busy day. I got 400 pound of Merlot and split the batch. Enough to make the 14 gallons I need and a couple carboys of stand-alone merlot. I then went to the Petite Verdot vineyard and picked 40 pounds of grapes, crushed, destemmed and tossed it in with the 14 gallons worth of Merlot. So two out of the four ferments going. I’ll either toss the Cab Sauv in with the Cab Franc or start it on the Merlot/PV pressings.
> View attachment 56245
> View attachment 56246



Are Merlot or PV typically harvested this early?


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## NorCal (Sep 3, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Are Merlot or PV typically harvested this early?


I can't say for the Merlot, this is my first time with it. The PV was taken from a separate vineyard that we usually don't harvest. These specific vines (maybe 60) become ripe, well before the other vineyards and is typically dehydrated and gone before the majority of the other PV is ready. It was beautiful fruit and a full 26 brix, (the other PV vineyards are around 22) so these vines had nothing more to give and would have only dehydrated going forward.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 3, 2019)

NorCal said:


> I can't say for the Merlot, this is my first time with it. The PV was taken from a separate vineyard that we usually don't harvest. These specific vines (maybe 60) become ripe, well before the other vineyards and is typically dehydrated and gone before the majority of the other PV is ready. It was beautiful fruit and a full 26 brix, (the other PV vineyards are around 22) so these vines had nothing more to give and would have only dehydrated going forward.



Where are you in relation to Lanza? Last year I got some super quality PV from them, shipped to Pennsylvania.

Forgot to mention I received them in November


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## NorCal (Sep 3, 2019)

ibglowin said:


> Looks good! Were you actually able to find the varietals and percentages of each (on the 100 point wine)?


Hey @ibglowin, I skipped over your post. Yes, between my community's fruit and another private vineyard less than 10 miles away I was able to get Cab Franc, Cab Sauv, Merlot and Petit Verdot. I do realize how fortunate I am to be able to have access to the fruit.


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## NorCal (Sep 4, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Where are you in relation to Lanza? Last year I got some super quality PV from them, shipped to Pennsylvania.
> 
> Forgot to mention I received them in November


They are 60 miles west of us. Cooler, nice costal breeze. We are right at the base of the Sierra Foothills


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## NorCal (Sep 6, 2019)

The Merlot Verdot went from 24-25 to 0 brix in 72 hours. Not really the plan, nor what I’d like, but I didn’t have room in my wine box to put the ferment and that Avante yeast is a beast. The fruit was good and it’s a blender, so I’ll put it under airlock and hopefully get more extraction and not too much tannin before I press in 36 hours.


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## 4score (Sep 6, 2019)

That Avante sure has some teeth! I'm letting Prelude do it's job for the 1st 6 Brix or so then I'll add my Avante to finish the job on my Merlot.


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## Donz (Sep 6, 2019)

Wow that is really fast.


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## NorCal (Sep 8, 2019)

Cab Sauv day. Only got 100 pounds to make a carboy. I started the fermentation using the Merlot Verdot pressings.


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## balatonwine (Sep 10, 2019)

NorCal said:


> View attachment 56292



I like these photos of a grape cluster in hand. The wine makers equivalent of the girlfriend taking her boyfriend by the hand to see something amazing.


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## NorCal (Sep 24, 2019)

Today was the last harvest to replicate the 100 point Cab Franc blend. Last on the list of four varieties was the Cab Franc itself. This is late in the season for this grape and the numbers showed it; 26.7 brix 4.06 pH. There was very little dehydration, so I was a bit surprised it was that high, but I’m not going to water it back. The Merlot and Cab Sauv were a little low on the brix scale and the Avante yeast will eat through 26.7 / 16%+ abv no problem.

I pulled out 17% of the juice (sold it to someone making rose) and put one pound of tartaric into the must in order to help us with the pH problem. Hopefully I can have a nice, controlled ferment and get all these wines in the barrel to age.


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## ibglowin (Sep 24, 2019)

Looks a little like Tuscany in that last pic! Beautiful Cab Franc. Did I miss why the CF was allowed to hang till it hit this high of brix and pH? Why not pick a week earlier lower brix, lower pH?


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## NorCal (Sep 24, 2019)

I was out of town the previous opportunity to pick. I need to piggyback commercial harvests and be quite flexible to get the grapes I’m getting.


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## ibglowin (Sep 24, 2019)

Understand that completely.


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## NorCal (Oct 1, 2019)

One of the real benefits of harvesting late this year has been the colder weather, which has really served to have a cooler and longer fermentation. Normally I have a peak temp of 85-90 degrees and fermentation has completed within 5-6 days. If I harvested on a Saturday, I am pressing the next Saturday. 

We are on day 8 since crushing the grapes. Two nights ago, the must temp was 75 degrees at 8 brix, last night was at 4.5 brix at 70 degrees. I'm hoping for a nice gradual drop to zero and that the must will hang in there until Saturday.


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## NorCal (Oct 7, 2019)

The harvest season is officially over. The cab franc ferment was one of the best. I pulled 13 gallons of juice out of the 900 pound crush and the ferment was long and slow. I separated the free run vs the press and used a higher % of the free run in the 100 point blend. The Cab Franc, Merlot, Cab Sauv and the Petit Verdot are now in the barrel and being treated to CH16 mlb. I’ll rack in 3 months or so when mlf has completed, I’ll add some French oak spirals and hopefully the wine will turn out as good as I am hoping.


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## Donz (Oct 7, 2019)

Question - what type of pump is that? I am in need of one badly. Does it work well pumping from fermenting bins to barrel/demijohn etc.?


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## mainshipfred (Oct 7, 2019)

NorCal said:


> The harvest season is officially over. The cab franc ferment was one of the best. I pulled 13 gallons of juice out of the 900 pound crush and the ferment was long and slow. I separated the free run vs the press and used a higher % of the free run in the 100 point blend. The Cab Franc, Merlot, Cab Sauv and the Petit Verdot are now in the barrel and being treated to CH16 mlb. I’ll rack in 3 months or so when mlf has completed, I’ll add some French oak spirals and hopefully the wine will turn out as good as I am hoping.
> 
> View attachment 56865



Am I reading this correctly, 13 gallons out of 900 lbs? Seems really low.


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## Johnd (Oct 7, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Am I reading this correctly, 13 gallons out of 900 lbs? Seems really low.



I was just thinking the same thing as I was reading the post..................


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## heatherd (Oct 7, 2019)

NorCal said:


> I’ve struggled with what to make this season. I need to tap the brakes on the volume of wine I make this year, which I’m sticking to. I just finished bottling a 2018 barrel of Cabernet Franc and a barrel of 2017 Cabernet Sauvignon that was loaded with Cab Franc, Petite Sirah and Petit Verdot to the point where it was only 66% Cab Sauv.
> 
> The second one, which I call the Bordeaux Blend, is now my second favorite wine I’ve ever made. It really stands out in its nose, dark flavors and now softening tannins. So, I’ve decided to do another blend this year.
> 
> ...


Really interesting blend proportions. PV and Merlot are about what I'd expect but the CF and CS are very different.


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## heatherd (Oct 7, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Norcal, I get your concept but as I'm sure you know replicating those percentages isn't necessarily going to replicate the same wine. My 2018 Meritage I just bottled is fairly equals portions of CS, Merlot and PV with smaller percentages of Malbec, Carmenere and Cab Franc and I think one of my best 3 wines to date.


I will be having your Meritage tonight, Fred! Looking forward to it.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 7, 2019)

heatherd said:


> I will be having your Meritage tonight, Fred! Looking forward to it.



Hope you enjoy it!


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## NorCal (Oct 7, 2019)

Donz said:


> Question - what type of pump is that? I am in need of one badly. Does it work well pumping from fermenting bins to barrel/demijohn etc.?


It is a surflo pump, works great on pressed/settled juice and finish wine. Less than $100, plenty fast for the volumes I'm doing.


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## NorCal (Oct 7, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Am I reading this correctly, 13 gallons out of 900 lbs? Seems really low.



I pulled 13 gallons of juice out (Saignee) to increase the juice to skin contact.

Out of the 900 pounds of Cab Franc I yielded:

13 gallons of rose juice (sold)
1 gallon of juice to make jelly
32 gallons of free run into barrel
5 gallon pressed into the barrel
7.5 additional free run gallons
8 additional gallons of pressed 

Grand total of: 66.5

The yield is higher than I would normally get by 10%. I didn't weigh the bin, so I suspect it may have been heavier than the 900 pounds (I only requested 800).


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## NorCal (Oct 7, 2019)

heatherd said:


> Really interesting blend proportions. PV and Merlot are about what I'd expect but the CF and CS are very different.


Yea, that is what caught my eye. In the Sierra Foothills, where I live, the Cab Franc does really well, the Cab Sauv not so good. I have made a straight Cab Franc (with a little Petite Sirah and/or Petit Verdot) for 5 out of the last 6 years, so I wanted to do something different.


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## Donz (Oct 8, 2019)

NorCal said:


> It is a surflo pump, works great on pressed/settled juice and finish wine. Less than $100, plenty fast for the volumes I'm doing.



Thanks. Is it the same as this model?

https://www.amazon.ca/SHURFLO-4008-...1?keywords=shurflo+pump&qid=1570558231&sr=8-1


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## ibglowin (Oct 8, 2019)

https://www.amazon.ca/SHURflo-Indus...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==



Donz said:


> Thanks. Is it the same as this model?
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/SHURFLO-4008-...1?keywords=shurflo+pump&qid=1570558231&sr=8-1


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## NorCal (Oct 8, 2019)

Donz said:


> Thanks. Is it the same as this model?
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/SHURFLO-4008-...1?keywords=shurflo+pump&qid=1570558231&sr=8-1


That is a 12V model, you want the 110V. Mine is from 2013 and they look different now, so models may have changed. I made my little carrier, added the on/off switch. Be sure to get the filter for it and do yourself a favor and get the twist on/off end connections.


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## stickman (Oct 8, 2019)

Or this one 
https://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-Industrial-Pump-Model-2088-594-154/dp/B0001FAA5Y?psc=1&


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## Donz (Oct 8, 2019)

Anyone tried this one? 

https://morewinemaking.com/products/variable-speed-diaphragm-pump-03-gpm.html


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## wxtrendsguy (Oct 8, 2019)

Make sure you wine is clean or you have an filter in line...diaphragm pumps are notorious for getting gummed up with the littlest amount of debris...


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## NorCal (Nov 9, 2019)

MLF is done, so today was racking day and took the opportunity to grab a generous sample. So far it is showing excellent promise. The jammy Cab Franc (Saignee, high % free run) is really coming through as a very fruit forward wine.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 9, 2019)

That picture seems to indicate that it is ALREADY a 100-point wine! I guess you can stop now!


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## NorCal (Nov 10, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> That picture seems to indicate that it is ALREADY a 100-point wine! I guess you can stop now!


I sampled the Merlot, Cab Franc free run, Cab Franc press, 50/50 cab franc/merlot blend and the 100 point blend, so had the glasses labeled. 
I copied the 100 point blend, not expecting the wine will ever hold a candle to the wine that won the 100 point score.


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## stickman (Nov 10, 2019)

@NorCal Did you find that the press wine was overly tannic? Just curious, I do a fairly soft basket press and the wine is always more tannic than the free run, but not that much different, I've always combined them. I can understand keeping them separate if you're going for more fruit, I think I end up with something more rustic.


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## NorCal (Nov 10, 2019)

stickman said:


> @NorCal Did you find that the press wine was overly tannic? Just curious, I do a fairly soft basket press and the wine is always more tannic than the free run, but not that much different, I've always combined them. I can understand keeping them separate if you're going for more fruit, I think I end up with something more rustic.


The pressed juice was significantly different than the free run, jammy full of flavor, drinkable now with no structure. The pressed juice was on the tannic side, not as much flavor and would need time for it to come into its own. I’ve kept free run separated before and always felt the best wine was the blending of the free and pressed. 

This year I vowed to do things different and used a much higher % of free run in the barrel. This is consistent with my goal to get the concentrated flavors in this year’s wine.


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## NorCal (Feb 1, 2020)

Time for a barrel update. 

I’ve been keeping the barrel topped and tracking the SO2. It is in a neutral French oak barrel, so determining which oak and how much to add is the next to-do on the list. I’ve been a fan of the oak spirals, so I purchased some medium toast French oak spirals. I have a carboy that is close to the wine blend composition of the barrel, so I put a couple in there. It takes 6 weeks for oak to integrate with the wine, so I’ll wait and see how that tastes before committing the $$ for 60 gallons worth.

I had a Cab Franc made by @Busabill that was outstanding. He used French oak wine stix for the oaking. I may need to try that as well.


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## Johnd (Feb 1, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Time for a barrel update.
> 
> I’ve been keeping the barrel topped and tracking the SO2. It is in a neutral French oak barrel, so determining which oak and how much to add is the next to-do on the list. I’ve been a fan of the oak spirals, so I purchased some medium toast French oak spirals. I have a carboy that is close to the wine blend composition of the barrel, so I put a couple in there. It takes 6 weeks for oak to integrate with the wine, so I’ll wait and see how that tastes before committing the $$ for 60 gallons worth.
> 
> ...



I second the notion of testing the Wine Stix. After using both spirals and Stix of the same toast / origin on separate but equal batches, the WS were much better IMHO. They are now my auto-go-to for oaking in neutral barrels.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 2, 2020)

I've also used both spirals and sticks but never compared them side to side and currently debating something similar. Spirals definitely have have a greater surface area but what I've been buying are the wine sticks. The literature states one wine stick is good for 5 gallons of wine and gives similar results to a second use barrel which I would imagine is referring the oak extraction. Since the bulk of my wines are aging in 6-8 gallon vessels and depending on the varietal I'm dealing with I was probably going to start with 2 sticks each for the bigger wines.


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## Johnd (Feb 2, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> I've also used both spirals and sticks but never compared them side to side and currently debating something similar. Spirals definitely have have a greater surface area but what I've been buying are the wine sticks. The literature states one wine stick is good for 5 gallons of wine and gives similar results to a second use barrel which I would imagine is referring the oak extraction. Since the bulk of my wines are aging in 6-8 gallon vessels and depending on the varietal I'm dealing with I was probably going to start with 2 sticks each for the bigger wines.



Fred, I was using 2 Stix in my neutral 6’s on a regular basis, it was a very nice level of oak after 2 - 3 months, which I believe is the recommended soak time. They rock on the pit afterwards....


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## NorCal (Feb 2, 2020)

I got what I thought was a great deal on the French oak spirals, $8.80 for a bag of two. In the past, I’d drop 1 spiral in a carboy, 6 weeks later it was done. When I got the bag, they looked shorter and the bag said each spiral was good for 3 gallons...arg. I will need to make another oak purchase anyway, so maybe I’ll make the jump to wine stix, unless my test carboy blows me away.


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## NorCal (Mar 2, 2020)

It’s been a month. I ended up buying medium toast French oak wine spirals for a barrel. I have a 2nd year barrel equivalent worth of oak in the barrel. I have done everything I can do, with the equipment I have, to make the best wine I can make. I could drink this wine right now. I think this is the best wine I’ve ever made. 

I’ll enter it in the CA State fair this year in the competitive Bordeaux category and we’ll see how we do in the blind tasting/judging.


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## ibglowin (Mar 2, 2020)

Interesting article that landed just today.

https://www.winemag.com/2020/02/27/...dsource=EMAIL1&dm_i=219S,1JYT1,5DXYUO,595KV,1


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## NorCal (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks for posting. That winery is 40 min from me!
_
“It wasn’t magic. What made the 2016 Ascent a 100-point wine was a near-perfect growing season, an exceptional wine region and a winemaker at the top of his game.”_

I’m blessed with the region and a pretty consistent growing season, I just need to continue to work on that third element.


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## NorCal (Mar 4, 2020)

I had the opportunity to enjoy two very nice glasses of wine last night that people brought to a small gathering, one was a Somm. 

- 2016 Duckhorn Vineyard Napa Cab Franc ($78 @ winery) 
- 2012 Dunn Vineyard Napa Cabernet Sauvignon ($100 all day)

Both were excellent wines and what made them excellent to me was the depth of fruit. The flavor was deep and long lasting, with many different flavors, followed by a finish that stayed with you for days. 

It is still real early, but I am tasting this depth of fruit that really makes these wines stand out in this Cab Franc barrel. I really feel that depth comes from the things we have been discussing in another thread; the ability to cold soak, control ferm temps and perhaps post ferm maceration. However, I really feel that us home winemakers from grapes can take steps to make really excellent wine. If I had to choose one thing that was done on this wine that I feel is making the biggest difference, if would be the saignee, where I removed 17% of the juice, before fermenting the Cab Franc, which is 64% of the overall volume. Too bad I have to wait an entire year to try something similar (thinking a Merlot based blend) again to see if I hit on something or the stars just luckily lined up this time.


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## stickman (Mar 4, 2020)

Here's the 2012 Dunn Napa Cab information.


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## Chuck E (Mar 5, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I had the opportunity to enjoy two very nice glasses of wine last night that people brought to a small gathering, one was a Somm.
> 
> - 2016 Duckhorn Vineyard Napa Cab Franc ($78 @ winery)
> - 2012 Dunn Vineyard Napa Cabernet Sauvignon ($100 all day)
> ...



I've tasted the Duckhorn, and I get what you are talking about.


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## cmason1957 (Mar 5, 2020)

stickman said:


> Here's the 2012 Dunn Napa Cab information.
> 
> View attachment 59169



Thanks for posting this, I see some very interesting things in the words of this short article, yeast choice D-254 and only one. Free and press are mixed together, but they don't press above 1 bar. Malolactic bacteria is added after press and they wait until it shows signs of starting before going to barrels. Barrels are kept at 57 F. 32 months in the barrel, sterile filtered and then 6 months in the bottle, so that means that wine is something like 3.5 years old before being commercially available (and then probably can age for a nice long time). And with 90% new French Oak, they have to sell at that price point ($100) to cover oak cost, almost.

I am almost certain that with my little, hand-cranked, fruit press, I can't get anywhere near 1 bar of pressure, so no reason not to mix free and press together. Amazing how chilled they keep the barrels, so you know malolactic fermentation takes a LONGGGG time. The racking every six months. all things to consider, for sure.


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## ibglowin (Mar 5, 2020)

Pretty sure you can go higher than 1 bar with a basket press. The whole selling point of the membrane press over the basket press was the basket press was capable of such high pressures you had to go easy or you risk pressing too hard and extracting too many tannins making for a really harsh wine.

This article claims you can achieve 6 bar with a basket press although it sounds like it is hydraulic. You keep yanking on a ratchet you can crank up the force. Be neat if they make some type of sensor that you could place in the basket press and actually measure the pressure in real time. I am thinking bluetooth app to smartphone. Then you could look at a graph in realtime of your pressure and make notes for future years depending on how the wines turned out you shoot to not go over a certain pressure. You take an "analog press" and convert it to digital in essence.

https://winesvinesanalytics.com/features/article/106967/Basket-Presses-Are-Big-For-Reds




cmason1957 said:


> I am almost certain that with my little, hand-cranked, fruit press, I can't get anywhere near 1 bar of pressure, so no reason not to mix free and press together.


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## mainshipfred (Mar 5, 2020)

I've developed a procedure that I think helps reduce extracting seed tannins. Toward the end of fermentation I will stir the wine after punching down. It appears to allow a majority of the seeds to sink to the bottom of the fermenter. So when I dump the last of the must in the press it is full of seeds at the bottom which I just discard. I press 3 times removing and fluffing the cake between presses. It's amazing how lightly you have to press the second and third time to get juice to flow and the skins are very dry. I started this by watching a commercial horizontal bladder press in action. They will press, rotate the drum several times and press again and their standard is three presses. I also find this especially helpful when the skins are very soft and would normally squirt out of the side of the press. The first press is very light, once you see it starting to squirt you remove and fluff them and pres again and it usually prevents it on the second pressing.


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## cmason1957 (Mar 5, 2020)

ibglowin said:


> Pretty sure you can go higher than 1 bar with a basket press. The whole selling point of the membrane press over the basket press was the basket press was capable of such high pressures you had to go easy or you risk pressing too hard and extracting too many tannins making for a really harsh wine.
> 
> This article claims you can achieve 6 bar with a basket press although it sounds like it is hydraulic. You keep yanking on a ratchet you can crank up the force. Be neat if they make some type of sensor that you could place in the basket press and actually measure the pressure in real time. I am thinking bluetooth app to smartphone. Then you could look at a graph in realtime of your pressure and make notes for future years depending on how the wines turned out you shoot to not go over a certain pressure. You take an "analog press" and convert it to digital in essence.
> 
> https://winesvinesanalytics.com/features/article/106967/Basket-Presses-Are-Big-For-Reds



Very interesting. It would be neat to put something inside as a person pressed just to see how much it can press, if nothing else.


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## NorCal (Mar 5, 2020)

I've used 3 presses; bladder, basket and a vacuum press (wineasy). The bladder press has a gauge on it and we run it to 3 bar. Based on the dryness of the "cake", I would say when we run the basket press, it is at least 3 bar as well. The vacuum press does not come out as dry as either of those two, so I'd put it _closer to 2 bar_ (correct number is 0.8 bar)


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## stickman (Mar 5, 2020)

Just to put some perspective on the press issue, to achieve 1 Bar or approximately 15psi, using a size 35 press with a 14in diameter basket, you would need to exert about 2,300 pounds force on the surface. I would think a torque wrench could be modified and used to determine a rough estimate if you had the multiplier factor for the screw. My press is on rollers so I have to put my foot on the base to prevent movement, so in my case I doubt I exceed 1 Bar, but I think it is possible if the press is anchored down.


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## cmason1957 (Mar 5, 2020)

Mine isn't on rollers, but is on a modified microwave cart and has to be braced in some way to keep from moving, so I doubt if I can get much more than 1 bar, if even that.


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## stickman (Mar 5, 2020)

Yea, I'm thinking that @NorCal when using the vacuum press is only 1 Bar max at full vacuum.


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## NorCal (Mar 5, 2020)

stickman said:


> Yea, I'm thinking that @NorCal when using the vacuum press is only 1 Bar max at full vacuum.


I went and checked my gauge, because I know where it goes to and you are correct, it’s more like 0.8 bar.


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## NorCal (Jun 30, 2020)

I’ve been tasting samples every time I topped and honestly I thought I ruined the wine by putting too much oak in it. I’ve done this before on a beautiful Barbera and ended up giving most of it away (4Score ended up winning best in class with his Barbera at the CA state fair that year, so it confirms how nice that wine was). However, the 2nd year equivalent, French oak staves that I’ve added to my neutral barrel have really integrated well and the fruit forward character has returned to the wine.

After 10 months in barrel, it is a wine that you could drink right now, but it deserves to be reserved until it has reached its full potential.


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## 4score (Jun 30, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I’ve been tasting samples every time I topped and honestly I thought I ruined the wine by putting too much oak in it. I’ve done this before on a beautiful Barbera and ended up giving most of it away (4Score ended up winning best in class with his Barbera at the CA state fair that year, so it confirms how nice that wine was). However, the 2nd year equivalent, French oak staves that I’ve added to my neutral barrel have really integrated well and the fruit forward character has returned to the wine.
> 
> After 10 months in barrel, it is a wine that you could drink right now, but it deserves to be reserved until it has reached its full potential.


You weren't a fan of the oaked Barbera, but I remember taking a case of "Smokey Barbera" off your hands and we LOVED it! I love oak influence but I can also appreciate that "clean" freshness tone of a lightly oaked wine. This year I'm going to be a little less heavy-handed with our oak. Neutral barrel instead of a new one, and we'll try a French oak Interstave chain for the 60-gal barrel of Cab Sav.


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## NorCal (Aug 14, 2020)

We usually have a bottling party and we would knock out the barrel and miscellaneous carboys out in one sitting. I have the production line set at 30 seconds a bottle, with 6 people. Since Covid is putting a damper on having people over, the Mrs. and I are going chip away at it a little at a time. We did the first 4 cases last night.

During barrel tasting, I've said that I thought this 2019 barrel of wine is the best to ever come out of the K&K (Ken & Kathi) garage. I still feel that way. The final blend was 60% Cabernet Franc, 30% Merlot, 6% Cabernet Sauvignon and 4% Petit Verdot. It is the style of wine that we enjoy the most; fruit forward, lots of flavor, lighter on the oak, with a nice long finish that makes you want to take another sip. It has a pleasant nose, great dark color with blackberry and blueberry notes. The extra steps taken and the $ spent on French oak are showing through in the wine. I will have to wait until next year's state fair to see if the judges agree with me. I'll have 20 cases of my own to put away for future enjoyment.

Thank you to all that commented along the way, I really appreciate the input. 

A picture of our new corks this year.


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## NorCal (Aug 14, 2020)

4score said:


> I predict this to be you best wine ever made!


My good friend and wine making buddy, as you predicted one year ago, I think you are right. You received the first two bottles, let is sit for a bit, then let me know if you agree.


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## ibglowin (Aug 14, 2020)

Did you go with Lafitte?



NorCal said:


> A picture of our new corks this year.
> 
> View attachment 64798


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## 4score (Aug 14, 2020)

ibglowin said:


> Did you go with Lafitte?


Amorim corks, www.amorimca.com


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## BI81 (Aug 15, 2020)

@NorCal thanks for these posts, I love reading them. I noticed back on post 26 you have a picture filling your barrel pumping out of brutes. I was curious if you used brutes for settling after pressing and if yes do you have any concern about oxidation? This year will be my first year in barrel so I’m trying to lock down tank space and make sure I’m covered. 

I was also curious if you stirred your leee during Malo, or if you just let it ride.

Thanks again for all of you posts they’re entertaining and very informative!


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## NorCal (Aug 16, 2020)

BI81 said:


> @NorCal thanks for these posts, I love reading them. I noticed back on post 26 you have a picture filling your barrel pumping out of brutes. I was curious if you used brutes for settling after pressing and if yes do you have any concern about oxidation? This year will be my first year in barrel so I’m trying to lock down tank space and make sure I’m covered.
> 
> I was also curious if you stirred your leee during Malo, or if you just let it ride.
> 
> Thanks again for all of you posts they’re entertaining and very informative!


I will press into brutes and let settle, covered for 12-24 hours. There is so much CO2 in the wine and there is usually a bit more fermentation going on (whole berries releasing sugar during pressing) I’m not concerned about oxidation at this point.


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## BI81 (Aug 17, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I will press into brutes and let settle, covered for 12-24 hours. There is so much CO2 in the wine and there is usually a bit more fermentation going on (whole berries releasing sugar during pressing) I’m not concerned about oxidation at this point.


That makes sense, thanks!


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## NorCal (Sep 25, 2020)

I know there are at least two others that are replicating the blend. @GR! contacted me and asked why I substituted Petit Verdot for the Malbec. I actually thought he was wrong and I simply needed to look it up and send him the link. I was wrong, he was right. 

I think where the substitution came was when @4score originally made a carboy of this blend out of the Cab Franc we had made (adding commercial Merlot and cab sauv) and substituting PV for the Malbec, because we had it. 

When I started this thread, I pulled my notes from the carboy we had made and forgot about the substitution. Didn’t mean to mislead anyone, but wanted to air this incase there are others that wanted to replicate the true 100% blend. The substitution doesn’t change the fact this is the best wine I’ve ever made


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## GR! (Sep 25, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I know there are at least two others that are replicating the blend. @GR! contacted me and asked why I substituted Petit Verdot for the Malbec. I actually thought he was wrong and I simply needed to look it up and send him the link. I was wrong, he was right.
> 
> I think where the substitution came was when @4score originally made a carboy of this blend out of the Cab Franc we had made (adding commercial Merlot and cab sauv) and substituting PV for the Malbec, because we had it.
> 
> ...



The funny thing is, I haven’t made wine in years. I lost the hobby a while ago due to being overwhelmed with work. I always said when I get back into it I will do one quality barrel a year instead of a bunch random kits. Reading through this thread is what lit the spark. I never planned on making “_2012 Verite le Desir“. _I wanted to replicate what @NorCal had accomplished a year prior and so far it’s going well!


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## crushday (Oct 19, 2020)

@GR! Do you have an update?


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## NorCal (Dec 26, 2020)

I swap wine with a local winemaker. He’s pretty well accomplished and I think he’s had each of my previous 6 vintages of Cab Franc as well. Received this text today, which was nice feedback. 

Just opened the Franc. Wow, some lush fruit flavors, well balanced oak, and excellent tannins. Would’ve won Gold at the fair this year if they’d have had one. Could be your best CF yet.


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## NorCal (May 31, 2021)

My Son-In-Law is a wine drinker and we got him his favorite bottle (prisoner cab sauv ~$50). I also gave him a bottle of my cab franc blend and ask that he do a blind tasting. Video link:


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## Ajmassa (May 31, 2021)

NorCal said:


> My Son-In-Law is a wine drinker and we got him his favorite bottle (prisoner cab sauv ~$50). I also gave him a bottle of my cab franc blend and ask that he do a blind tasting. Video link:



wow! that’s gotta be satisfying. congrats on making such an exceptional wine @NorCal


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## crushday (May 31, 2021)

@NorCal A proud moment for sure. Good job...


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## Snafflebit (Jun 12, 2021)

Very interesting thread @NorCal and timely for me. I am debating whether to add Cab Franc to a 132 vine vineyard. This vineyard was 100% Cab Sauv but has dead zones. I replanted 22 vines in Merlot and was debating to myself to add 20 vines of Cab Franc. But does Cab Franc add enough difference to a wine blend to offset the trouble of dealing with the little amount of fruit 20 vines produce? I will probably just add to the Merlot, but I thought it worthwhile to get your opinion


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## NorCal (Jun 12, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> Very interesting thread @NorCal and timely for me. I am debating whether to add Cab Franc to a 110 vine vineyard. This vineyard was 100% Cab Sauv but has dead zones. I replanted 22 vines in Merlot and was debating to myself to add 20 vines of Cab Franc. But does Cab Franc add enough difference to a wine blend to offset the trouble of dealing with the little amount of fruit 20 vines produce? I will probably just add to the Merlot, but I thought it worthwhile to get your opinion


I love cab franc and is a wonderful companion to cab sauv. I would totally do it.


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## Chuck Rairdan (Jun 12, 2021)

Perhaps Petite Verdot. Can add depth, complexity with limited acreage, mixing ratios.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 13, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> I replanted 22 vines in Merlot and was debating to myself to add 20 vines of Cab Franc.


What is your expected yield? I assume more than a carboy, so you might ferment separately and blend into the Cabernet Sauvignon.


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## Snafflebit (Jun 13, 2021)

My educated guess on 22 mature VSP trained merlot vines with 12 spurs each is 175 lbs. With 90 lbs per 5 gallons of wine that gets me to almost 2 carboys of merlot. I like merlot, so having more is not a problem for me. I am leaning towards filling the remaining 14 sites with Petit Verdot. It has a lot of bang for the buck as a blender. And if I get the proportions dialed in, maybe I will make a field blend and call it good.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 13, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> My educated guess on 22 mature VSP trained merlot vines with 12 spurs each is 175 lbs. With 90 lbs per 5 gallons of wine that gets me to almost 2 carboys of merlot. I like merlot, so having more is not a problem for me. I am leaning towards filling the remaining 14 sites with Petit Verdot. It has a lot of bang for the buck as a blender. And if I get the proportions dialed in, maybe I will make a field blend and call it good.


My wines from last fall include a batch that is one 36 lb lug each of Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot, and Malbec. Most of this was used in 2 field blends, one with Merlot, one with Merlot & Zinfandel. I reserved a gallon of the blend for comparison, and on its own, it's delightful. [My reds are field blends as I do not have the capacity to do what I'd really like to do, although I'm very happy with my results.]

Food for thought: Use your open capacity to plant a variety of reds, and ferment them as a field blend -- for blending into your Merlot and/or Cabernet Sauvignon, as needed. Bottle whatever's left as a single wine (should be interesting) or keep a carboy for use with the next year's wine.


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## AaronSC (Jun 15, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> Very interesting thread @NorCal and timely for me. I am debating whether to add Cab Franc to a 132 vine vineyard. This vineyard was 100% Cab Sauv but has dead zones. I replanted 22 vines in Merlot and was debating to myself to add 20 vines of Cab Franc. But does Cab Franc add enough difference to a wine blend to offset the trouble of dealing with the little amount of fruit 20 vines produce? I will probably just add to the Merlot, but I thought it worthwhile to get your opinion


I'm a big advocate of Franc in California. In the Foothills at least it produces much better wine than either C. Sauvignon or Merlot, for reasons I can't quite understand (it's considered the more cold hardy of the three, so I assumed it would hate California). It has a lot of varietal character here, more so than in France or New York from my experience. I made about 36 gallons of Franc this year from grapes grown in Fiddletown (Amador County). It had so much Franc character that it really needed to be blended. This wa something I had read about in Bordeaux, where a little Franc goes a long way, but I had never experienced this with the grapes I made wine from. It's not fruity at all -it has a very pronounced "cedar" smell. I noted this both here in Amador and also in Sonoma County Francs, so I think it's a California thing. I ended up blending my Francs with Mourvedre and Malbec -it's going to be a super wine, I think.


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## Snafflebit (Jun 16, 2021)

I bought a bottle each of Cab Franc and Petit Verdot varietal wine from Cuda Ridge winery in Livermore CA, which resembles the microclimate where I am growing grapes, so that I can do a taste test with a few people. Then I threw in some rosés of Cab Sauv, Merlot and Malbec to determine how I feel about doing a saignée with these. I am accustomed to the Pinot and Gamay style of rosé. It will be a fun week! And my apologies to @NorCal for stealing your thread! I will start a new one.


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