# WINE GARDEN



## NorthernWinos

Worked in the Wine Garden today....not nearly as impresive as the other guys on this Forum....but this is just 'The Fruit Lady'.. 


Asparagus [not for wine] raspberries, rhubarb and a few grapes [45 + a few extras]...









3 rows of strawberries, garlic and another row of raspberries and a few extra grape plants...








Baby grapes on the vine.....








One of the Louise Swenson vines....was such a tiny tissue culture, but made it through the winter...








And under the tent...salad fix'in's








At the far end I have been setting out a black currant, sandcherries and Nanking cherries....still waiting for more black currants, Aronia, gooseberries and a Josta berry...will also be getting more Juneberries to match up with the plants at the back.


Will Post more photos as the plants arrive.....


Love fruit wine!!!

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## jobe05

I would say what you have there is pretty darn impressive! By anyones standards. I love your nice dark soil, is that natural to your area or compost material that was brought in? Looks like it would be great for plants.


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## Wade E

Awesome NW!


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## bmorosco

wow you knocked it out of the park NW....


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## grapeman

You have a wonderful and fully impressive wineyard and garden, and lawn, and farm and house and........... You tire me out with your gardening and I'm not even the one doing it






I would just love to join with your husband in turning out 300 acres of crops!


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## jobe05

appleman said:


> I would just love to join with your husband in turning out 300 acres of crops!




You and me both Appleman. That would be an experience of a lifetime.


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## grapeman

Jobe, I did grow a lot of crops before, and it was some of the most enjoyable time of my life. At one time I had 60 acres of vegetables, 50 acres of corn and 75 acres of hay, plus milked our cows with my lovely wife. It's a good thing I was a little younger then


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## jobe05

I have had uncles who worked farms all their lives around the Canastota area. When I was young I would love to go over on the weekends and help out. I also loved to go home on Sundays.......... It's the hardest work anyone would love to do, it's the most honest job anyone could have.


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## NorthernWinos

I love our compost pile...we add to it all year...all the garden debris, kitchen scraps, etc....and a few loaders full of dirt from a livestock pond...then I have Jim turn it with the tractor loader, start a new pile every 2 years....
However we do need some rotted manure for the veggie garden....don't have enough compost for everything...That's the only thing I miss about not having livestock...no manure....no flies is good tho.


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## NorthernWinos

The strawberries are blooming up a storm....








It got really cold last night, like in the mid 30's...this time it was clear and calm....I did not fluff the straw over the strawberries...I see a couple with black spots on th blossom....frost might have touched some of the baby strawberries...they are very sensitive.








Hope we didn't loose too many berries...just to liking that strawberry wine.


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## NorthernWinos

Quote from Trigham.. 




NW ,



it seems u have a virtual vintners dream garden going there with many varieties , can u explore them with picture and descriptions please. 










Trigham....you asked for a tour of the Wine Garden...so here goes.. 








The outside has 2 rows of asparagus...


Then a row of Redwing Raspberries.....they are said to be Fall Bearing and can be mowed off to the ground in the fall...they bear on new wood that grows that season....however...being so far North I have found that if you leave that growth it will produce a spring crop on the year old wood, then the new growth comes through and bears on it's new wood....I have found that most years in this area not all the fruit is ripe by hard frost...I think this variety would do better a bit further South...I have debated removing this row, but then comes spring and there is a crop to harvest.


The next row is an old row ofsummer bearing Raspberries...I have started a new row of this variety at the other end of the garden, they should produce well this summer. 
In that row is also Canada Red Rhubarb...it does very well up here, nice red stalks....we also have some older varietyplants that came with the homestead, they get huge...I call those plants 'Poor Man's Gunnera' they get that big.


Next are rows of grapes..




A row of 9 plants of Beta....a very hardy juice grape.
A row of Valiant grapes, those I have made wine from...not too bad.
A row containing trial plants of hardy WINE grapes, Frontenac, King of the North, Paraie Star and Louise Swenson.
Next a row of tender grapes...Eldewisse, Swenson Red, Canadice [those are grown on panels and are laid down in the fall and covered with straw.
The next row will be Frontenac...have the small plants growing, but need the help of my husband to get the posts in.








Next a row of June Bearing strawberries, thisblossom I thought might have gotten frost, but too few showed signs...I think it was hail damaged a few flowers...






A row of Everbearing Strawberries a row of garlic and another row of Everbearing Strawberries.








The a row of assorted plants, a nursery row of grapes, shrubs and seedling plants...then the last row is rapberries....In front is a herb garden, lettuceand spinach I grow under the little tents to keep them clean and bug free.....then comes the vegetable area.


Around the back grow native fruits...Nannyberries, Buffalo Berries, High Bush Cranberries for wild life and Elderberries for wine....
Wild Plums....




Sand Cherries...




June Berries...










Nanking Cherries....









As well we have wild Chokecherries and other wild fruits....
We planted apples, crabapples and a pear in 1999-2001








They are coming along nicely...






The last 2 years we planted more apples, crabapples, full sized plums, another pear [for pollenation] and some new Cherry trees from Alberta Canada called Bali...






Started a new area this spring...will have Black Currant, Aronia, Gooseberries, Josta Berries, more Nanking Cherries and Sand Cherries






It's been a fun adventure and hope to get wine from some of these fruits this year....that was your tour...


To be continued.....







*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Wade E

Dang woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Waldo

Awesome NW...Thanks for sharing your piece of heaven on earth.


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## NorthernWinos

Waldo said:


> Awesome NW...Thanks for sharing your piece of heaven on earth.




My pleasure!!!


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## grapeman

I think you are trying to replace all the worlds lostvegetation in your own garden NW. Great job. What do you do in all your spare time? It can't take long to tend to all that


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## NorthernWinos

Appleman....Eden township is just across the road....so mine is not the Garden of Eden...but close.


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## Trigham

NW , What can I say thats was amazing



, I want to thank you for taking the time to do this wonderful picture tour for us. 


I am envious of your property it is absolutley what I dreamt of most of my life although, I would have more of a veggie garden as well. The problem where I live is that the growing season is wayyy too short, about 45 days shorter than yours by the way yours are coming. my concorde hasnt even begun to start leaving yet , but a good sign is the trees have budded everywhere and are starting to leave now. so it will be soon. 


I am thinking of a time way back when when my grandfather had a huge outdoor plot such as yours andI thought he was crazy. I wish I was a little older then and I would have helped and maintained that plot after his death. The landhas beenused for an apartment complex now. 
Any way thanksagainand I wish you a great growing season!!


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## geocorn

I have found there is no better healer than working in the soil. It clears the mind and seems to have a rejuvenating effect on the whole body. I used to havea garden about that size, but in Dallas, the lots are quite big enough. Looking forward to moving out someday and having a nice garden. Just need to keep growing the store.


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## NorthernWinos

Set out more wine plants...they finally are arriving, almost too late to expect any growth from bare root plants this season....was assured they are guaranteed....will baby them along and hope for the best. 








Other fruits are showing good growth...the recent rains sure helped..


Raspberry buds...










Developing Strawberries.... 








Developing Grapes...








Some of the Native plants are blooming...we planted some of these out in our shelter belt of trees for wildlife...Nanny Berry [Wild Raisin] 








High Bush Cranberry.... 







Mountain Ash.... [these flowers are kind of stinky]







I have seen recipes for High Bush Cranberry Wine and Mountain Ash Wine....but the birds have to have something to eat too.






*Edit...I see a little bruising and holes in leaves from the hail last week...other wise everything seems healthy.



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Waldo

NW have you ever used justthe elder flowers in your wines. I am wondering at what point you would harvest the flowers for this use ands what portion of the flower you would use in the wine *Edited by: Waldo *


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## NorthernWinos

I don't know...Last year I had only one mature plant...a John's...his mate [Adam's] had died, it had beautiful flowers and I knew he wouldn't produce fruit...should have picked those flowers...but just enjoyedtheir beauty.


Last year I bought another John's and Adam's as they come in a 'team'...my luck the Adam's died.....Today I received 2 sets of John's and Adam's plants and planted them....one of the Adam's plants probably doesn't stand a chance of growing....
Why do they both have men's names???? 
Will they ever reproduce????


Next time I am going to buy a different 'team'.


This year the mature John's died to the ground except for a couple tall canes...maybe they are a little tender for his zone???


Waldo...as for your question....Cracked Cork is the resident Elderberry man...he has a Web Page and I am sure he would help you out as to when to harvest the flowers.


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## rgecaprock

How Beautiful, NW......I can't express in words how I envy you!!!! Reminds me of my roots!! I love your pictures so much!!!


Ramona


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## NorthernWinos

Went to a city yesterday and found a potted Red Currant at a little greenhouse set up at the farm store, so it had to come home with me...


It fit right in the 'Wine Garden'









Before it got set out I took some cuttings....








The cuttings [trimmings] off of the first Black Currant bush that got set outseem to be rooting...they are under the jar on the right....they won't submit to a tug...so think there are roots holding them in the potting soil...Hope to get a few more plants ....for free!!!!


Set out the late season cauliflower, broccoli and cabbage plants today...as well as the melon plants....garden is finally coming together....and the greenhouse is getting empty...just replacement plants, plants for friends and a few cuttings left in there....Hope the rains keep coming....Summer is here!!!!


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## Wade E

Looking great NW! I wish I had 1/4 of the thumb you have and I think you know what color digit Im talking about!


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## grapeman

That garden sure is growing! You must give an awful lot of produce away later on. Even with canning and freezing, I don't think you could ever use all that up. Is the rain fairly spaced out or is it getting wet yet?


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## NorthernWinos

We got 3.96 inches in May [that's in our official USDA rain gauge]...most all of it came the last 10 days...It went from powder dry to wet....The showers are small in coverage but heavy....Now it seems to be coming regularly....hope it keeps up.


Was glad to get in the garden and finally get some of the last stuff set out and planted. There is more produce there than we can use, can and freeze....but the neighbors enjoy some too...tho the old people are passing away. Also have to share with bugs, diseases, mice and sometimes Mother Nature takes a share too.


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## NorthernWinos

My 'Honey' is trying to get his crops sprayed...it's either too windy or raining....so...he installed the posts for the Frontenac Grape row...and I got them transplanted and mulchedtoday...








I mulch them for the first year or so to conserve moisture and for winter protection...the 'rag' hanging over one plant is to protect it[as it was a larger plant] from wilting in the hot sun....


JW...the beer 'slug traps' are under the ice-cream buckets....protecting the beer from a pending rain storm....


A nice afternoon 'Garden Variety' shower...






A nice 1/4" rain in 15 minutes...








And a small rainbow...just to tell you....








"It doesn't get any better than this"


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## JWMINNESOTA

That wire mesh to the left of the JW traps reminded me of a wine rack I saw, good idea I think, could be modified so many ways and made functional I think.


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## NorthernWinos

I've seen wine racks made with that wooden X lath panels too...looked nice too.


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## Waldo

Awesome NW........Thanks


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## rgecaprock

Nice. I like the wire !


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## NorthernWinos

Things are progressing in the Wine Garden...


Strawberries are growing...from flowers to fruit..












Raspberries...from tiny blossoms to small fruits...Thanks to the bees...











Wild Chokecherries...











Nanking Cherries....Not pollinated well...was cold and windy at flowering..











Sandcherries...set fruit nicely...











Apples and Crabapples are growing well...a few smaller crowed ones are doing the 'June-Drop'...











Other fruits are doing well...


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## NorthernWinos

Wine garden is growing.... 


The raspberries are filling out and the bees are still working over the last bloosoms...








The early and late apples and crabapples are getting bigger, lost some in the windstorm...














The Juneberries are filling out and taking on color...I hope the applications of fungicide help with the fungus...so far so good...








The Wild Chokecherries are also getting bigger and appear to have hung on through the strong winds...








The grapes are growing like wild...but really took a beating in the wind....all the wildly growing new growth was going in one direction from the winds, and had grown together...untangled a lot of the wines today and tied them up...








I am trying to get a new shoot or two from the base to grow as a back-up trunk as well as some new lateral..just in case I get another freeze out....This is a King of the North vine...it is the most rampant grower around.


Baby grapesare growing...








When do you start canopy trimming???


The new Currant, Gooseberry, Nanking Cherry and Sandcherry area is expanding...a friend came over with a new Red Currant and Juneberry plant for the 'Wine Effort'...








Took a few more cuttings off some of the plants and the older cuttings have rooted and got 4 Black Currants in individual pots now...








The veggie garden took a beating in the wind and heavy rains...the soil is like cement now and many plants are still headed 'down-wind'....planted the late sweetcorn and a few late potatoes today...








All is well on de-tundra.

















*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Wade E

Looks just awesome there NW. You have the best of 2 worlds there, a
beautifully maintained yard with an exceptional garden.




Hats off to you. I hope I have the time in my life where I can take the
time and have property big enough to do something like this.


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## Waldo

MeThinks NW would put most men today to shame with her work habits. She does more work by accident than most people do trying .


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## grapeman

Waldo, what you don't see is the crew of migrant Scandinavians in the background with NW cracking the whip at them!




I bet with a garden like hers she could really use a few of them from time to time. 


What she doesn't tell you is that all those boots upside down used to belong to men that she worked into the ground trying to keep up with her!


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## NorthernWinos

I don't work that hard....just try my best....and...love every minute of it. 


My honey does his fair share too...that's how he wore out so many boots.*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

The heat and humidity sure has things ripening fast.....and sent me out with more bird netting.


The Juneberries are showing an occasional larger ripe berry...The flavor resembles Blueberries...The fungicide has certainly helped, no sign of fungus this year.








The Nanking Cherries also have an occasional ripening berry....They bloomed very early this spring during cold and windy days...there seemed to be plenty of bees on good days...but the crop is very sparse....








Other years..a bumper cop for the birds...the year I want them for wine, no such luck.... I continue to find and dig volunteer plants from the yard...will increase the number of plants.


This is all a learning experience...you have a season to try to grow some plants and if you don't succeed you'll hope for a better crop next year...


Good thing that Vintners Harvest Fruit Bases have a bumper crop in every can.


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## rgecaprock

Just got back from the country, Woodville, Tx at Curtis' mom's house. The gave us bags and bags of goodies. It was so nice to get away for a day. Took a few pics. 


Various wildlife, plants etc.







I think this is called a Texas star. It gets mistaken for marijuana, the leaves looks just like it. It is a native Texas plant.
















A poor little possum that got caught in the live trap.


My bronze muscadine plant that they planted for me in april.






The trees were getting eaten by this caterpillars....hope they don't get to my vine.


Ramona





*Edited by: rgecaprock *


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## NorthernWinos

Nice to see what's up in your neck of the woods...


Greatphotos...You lucky folks to have ripe tomatoes already...guess that's what's stocking the stores up in these parts.


Love the red Clematis!!!!!...Is that a Camillion????


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## grapeman

Those are certainly different critters than we have up here. I think I would rathr see a possum than a mountain lion though. I'm with NW. It would be nice to have those veggies already. About a week or so on cukes and a few more weeks for tomatoes. Oh Well... pretty soon I won't be able to keep up with them.


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## rgecaprock

Yes, NW, It is a camelion, I tried to catch him when he ran onto the brown tree but he got away.












Then driving home, it looked like a tornado might form.












I live about 3 blocks from the tallest bulding you see in the distance.*Edited by: rgecaprock *


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## NorthernWinos

The Red Currant bush that a friend brought over has a few ripe berries on it...Going to take many plants to make any wine in future years... 








The Valiant Grapes are getting bigger...they are a very early short-season grape...








The King of the north have longer looser clusters...








The old-timer Beta vine is growing out of control...loaded with clusters....I have buried some vines near the base to make more plants, as well am trying to train a new sprout from the base as a potential replacement trunk.....








When do we start canopy pruning???


Everything is growing, including the weeds...*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Wade E

Wow girl, you got it going on!


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## grapeman

The time to start canopy management is last winter or this spring when you prune the vines. You determine the overall canopy size at that time by the type of training you do. If you have a vine that is consistently too thick each summer, you probably need to prune it a little more vigorously. Too many canes left makes for a very dense canopy later.


That said, You could start taking some unproductive shoots (no fruit)out now to open it up some. Just don't cut the shoot tips yet or it will get thicker. Is that all one vine?


The red currents tend to be small so yields aren't great per vine. I only grow a few for a taste. That's why I planted the black currants this year- they get bigger so more yield.


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## NorthernWinos

Yes, that is all one vine, it is probably 15-20 feet from one end to the other....I know..that's too much. I will start doing some summer trimming [canopy pruning]...there are a lot of unproductive shoots....will remove those.


The vines I buried beside the base to produce new plants will get severed next spring, or be left for new plants. I had my plants 10 feet apart and see that most of you guys have your plants thicker in the rows..


Those Red Currant don't taste at all like the Black Currants, at least at this point. I hope the Black Currant bushes produce next summer...the biggest potted plant I got this spring has a few berries on it, the others were bare root plants and have nice leaves on them...hope they winter over.


Looks like drier weather around here for awhile ahead.


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## NorthernWinos

Did a little hoeing out in the garden today, cloudy and cool, perfect working weather...


The Baltic Amber tissue culture vine had died to the ground...it is showing some life...








The tender Edelweiss is growing good on it's steel panel,won't be as productive as last year...just glad it is alive and hope to get a few clusters for the table...








This is one of the Louise Swenson vines...I want to grow it in a fan style with multiple trunks....don't know if it's going to work or not...








Trying to grow a few vines in that fan-multiple trunk way in hope that I will never experience the winter kill again that took out so many of our older vines a few years ago.


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## NorthernWinos

The Juneberries are ripening...I had picked what we called Saskatoon's when I was a kid...and don't remember how purple they got before you pick them....can anyone out there clue me in as to how dark they should get??????
I am kind of going by ...picking them dark red/purple as they seem to fall to the ground at about that color....they sure are mild in flavor, I hope to make at least a gallon of wine...


BTW...the fungicide definitely helped...no sign of the usual orangey/rust fungus that has always been on the fruit.


I found a robin going in and out of my netting 'helping herself' to some fruit, so now have netting around the bottom of the bushes too...It makes picking a bit more of a challenge.


I have put up a scarecrow...it seems to have helped to keep some birds away, they were also eating the raspberries as they were ripening...


The everbearing strawberries are about done for this picking, the Junebaring ones still have a few smaller berries for the table.


The Highbush Cranberries have gone from pretty flowers to some fruit on some of the bushes..









Have seem recipes for wine from these and if the birds cooperate might get some berries for some wine.


The mosquitoes have been awful...usually we have enough wind to keep them at bay...I have found the suggestion on putting Downy or Bounce fabric softener sheet from a hat really does seem to keep them away....Looking like Lawrence of Arabia also keeps the neighbors wondering.


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## swillologist

nw are you make wine out of those thing? They're not fit to eat. LOL I have a couple of bushes in my yardThe birds won't even eat them until spring after they have froze and there isn't anything else to eat. But I guess if you can make wine out of choke cherries you should be able to make wine out of them.There are several bushes growing in the slough behind the choke cherry tree in thepictureI posted inthe other thread. If you need some more I know where you can get some.*Edited by: swillologist *


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## NorthernWinos

We picked some wild ones once to make jelly, we thought we were smelling swap gas as we were picking them in a swap....Then we smelled our buckets and thought they smelled like dirty feet.


These bushes look different then the ones out in the bog...so might give them a try...will smell them first.


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## swillologist

After I found out they were edible last fall. I did some readin up on them. There are two verities, native or American and European. The native are supposed to be better for eating then the European. If they are any different at all, they have to be better. There is no way they could taste worse. But still may be able to make wine out of the European ones. If you do have native I may have you send me some seeds (if you don't mind)to see if I can grow them here.


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## NorthernWinos

We got these from the county, they sell wild plants for people to put in windrows and shelter belts for wildlife. The Nursery that grows them also sells to a bare root greenhouse, they also sell them....So, don't really know if they are Native or a hybred...Will give them the 'taste-test' this fall. *Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

Nanking Cherries are unbelivable...seem to have bloomed and set fruit in a matter of days... 


May 3rd in Nanking Cherry Post [Fruit Wines]....







May 7th...






May 25th...







Today....






Zero to fruit in less than 60 days....*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

What's the flavor and texture of those cherries NW? Anything like regular sweet or tart cherries?


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## NorthernWinos

Like a small sweet juicy cherry with a large pit....usually we would just graze out there, bring a bowl into the house and let the birds have them..






Will try a gallon of wine this year and hopefully in the future more...


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## swillologist

nw, I've been looking all day for thesite whereI read that about the high bush cranberry and I can't find it. I must be all wet on this one.



But I did find a recipe for high bush cranberry wine.



http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/highbush.asp 
Our nanking cherries real got hammered this spring with the cold snap. May be had a hand full on them and the birds got those. Put out 3 more bushes this spring to go with the 3 we already have. 
Can you make wineout ofhazelnuts?



Those things are loaded this year. *Edited by: swillologist *


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## Joanie

I don't know about wine from hazelnuts but I know you can flavor coffee with them!


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## grapeman

I would think the hazelnuts would have oil in them- a no-no in making wine. Ask Waldo about the oil in the dried bananas he used!


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## swillologist

I didn't think you could appleman. I'll just stick to eating them and share them with the chipmonks and the mice.


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## NorthernWinos

swillologist said:


> Our nanking cherries real got hammered this spring with the cold snap. May be had a hand full on them and the birds got those. Put out 3 more bushes this spring to go with the 3 we already have.




I was wondering what happened to our Nanking Cherries this year...they bloomed so early and nicely..... the first days were cold and windy, then sunny and they seemed to have plenty of bees for pollenating.....but have such a poor fruit set...We had a couple cold nights....Do you think the blossoms froze??? I notice that on strawberries sometimes...they bloom and if they get frosted the flower turns black and doesn't produce...I fluffed some straw over the strawberries those cold nights...


Maybe frost is the reason for poor fruit set....I was thinking the bushes needed pruning...Do you prune your bushes...it looks like they bloom on the previous years wood.


Also, I have read that not all the bushes produce fruit...I have a couple bushes that only produce a few berries and other bushes are loaded every year....but the year I want them.


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## NorthernWinos

swillologist said:


> nw, I've been looking all day for thesite whereI read that about the high bush cranberry and I can't find it. I must be all wet on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I did find a recipe for high bush cranberry wine.
> 
> 
> 
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/highbush.asp




Here are some Sites to check out...
http://www.saskfruit.com/studentwebsites/High%20Bush%20Cranberry%20Hrycan/Consumerpage/consumer.html


http://www.gardenline.usask.ca/fruit/cranbery.html


http://www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com/The_Forager/highbush_cranberry.htm


http://www.evergreen.ca/nativeplants/search/view-plant.php?ID=00740


http://www.macphailwoods.org/shrub/hbcran.html


Will do more reading as well.


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## swillologist

Where did you find that at? nw LOL The wildflower and weeds wibsite is the one I read. The bushes I have look a lot like the ones in the pictures. But the fruit on these are oblong not round like in the pictures. I know these bushes are not native around here. They were planted by the guy that had the place before me. So I don't know what variety they are. They grow pretty easy from seeds. The birds have planted them in the slough just north of where the bushes are. There are several bushes growing there now. I would like to know what kind I have. I will have to post a picture and see if they look like the ones thatyou have.


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## NorthernWinos

I did a search on Google and those pages came up....my fruits are a little oblong too at this point...One bush is a little different than the others.


The bushes out in our shelter belt are small, yellow and struggling in the grass...the few I set out in flower bed conditions are so much nicer. The deer had always done the pruning and did such a nice job...they have changed their habits so the pruning is up to me now. Also the young fruit trees had been totally mutalated...they seem to be recovering now.


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## NorthernWinos

<H4><A name=Highbush_Cranberry_Liqueur></A>*Here is a recipe to concider...*</H4>
<H4>*Highbush Cranberry Liqueur*</H4>Ingredients:
500 mL (2 cups) highbush cranberries
375 mL (1 1/2 cups) vodka
375 mL (1 1/2 cups) sugar
200 mL (3/4) cup water
1/2 lemon or lime peel
1/4 orange peel
Optional: 
1 stick cinnamon
1/8 tsp. ground allspice

Thoroughly wash and rinse a large 40 oz glass container with a tight fitting lid. Wash and stem berries, chop into puree using a food processor and place in glass container. Add lemon and orange peel, vodka, sugar, and optional spices. Let stand for 4 weeks in a dark place, shaking gently each day to dissolve the sugar. Strain several times using cheesecloth, rebottle, and serve.


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## grapeman

Northern Winos said:


> I did a search on Google and those pages came up....my fruits are a little oblong too at this point...One bush is a little different than the others.
> 
> 
> The bushes out in our shelter belt are small, yellow and struggling in the grass...the few I set out in flower bed conditions are so much nicer. The deer had always done the pruning and did such a nice job...they have changed their habits so the pruning is up to me now. Also the young fruit trees had been totally mutalated...they seem to be recovering now.





To help with the tree mutilation, hang bars of soap in them. Use motel/hotel size bars of very aromatic soaps. I used to buy boxes of a thousand for hanging in young plantings. Then get some paper clips and straighten it enough to poke through the center of the bar and hang it like Christmas tree ornaments. Several to a tree usually is enough to keep the deer at bag mostly.


Something else I have found this year to keep the deer out of the vines is the Blue-X tubes. I have noticed since installing these, that there is hardly ever a track in the vines. They are supposed to keep rodents from chewing on the vines- I guess so, it scares the deer(rodent) out of them. I think it is the bright blue color that does it- even though deer are supposed to be color blind.


----------



## NorthernWinos

appleman The deer had always done the pruning and did such a nice job...they have changed their habits so the pruning is up to me now. Also the young fruit trees had been totally mutalated...they seem to be recovering now.
I save all our soap bars when they get small and hang them in the older trees in little mesh onion bags....don't really know if it helps out there.
The smaller trees got mutilated the first year they were set out said:


> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/images/uploads/NorthernWinos/2006-01-31_083838_IMG_0001.JPG[/img]
> 
> 
> The total protection...Wire mesh on the bottoms buried in pea gravel to prevent the gnawing rabbits and mice, the post and bird netting helped through that winter for browsing deer.*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## OilnH2O

NW -


About ("a-boot") your 'saskatoons' question -- as you know they arecalled "Service berries" in the states, but pronounced "sarvis-berries" when we lived in Tennessee and Kentucky. We picked them when they were dark purple, and easily pulled from the plant. It the berry "stuck" as we pulled it, we left it on. Here in Montana if you call them "Saskatoons" most people know what you're talking about!



Great jellies if you strain the seeds.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Here in Minnesota they call them Juneberries. 
The plants are about [aboot] done for the year. Not really good producers.....The last berries on the big plant are either drying up like raisins or have the dreaded fungus on them...the only thing better than that is if we would have driven half way across the state to pick them.


----------



## NorthernWinos

3 Black Currant cuttings are growing nicely and now have 8 Gooseberry cuttings rooted and joined them in the greenhouse... 






So, will set them out into the 'Wine Garden' soon...have to get some advice on how close together they can be planted...????



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## grapeman

Those are coming along nicely NW. They can be planted 3-5 feet apart in rows about 6-8 feet apart.


Did the rain slacken up out there yet? We have gotten out share of it today. 3 Severe Thunderstorm Warnings and about 4-5 inches of rain later, we are looking plenty wet enough for a while now. The second batch that came through a couple hours ago was primed for tornado activity. Not sure if any touched down, but lots of wind and hail damage not far away.


----------



## NorthernWinos

We haven't had any rain in over a week....it was near 100*F a couple days ago...then it cooled off nicely without any storms...I think that cold front is setting off your storms out East now.


Tonight we are expecting even cooler air with a possibility of some rain...actually after 9.63" in June and an inch over a week ago...we could use some...I notice a few flowers that are crowded are wilting and corners of the crops on sand are looking thristy....The corn is 6 feet tall and the soybeans are blooming. The corn is uneven due to flooded areas and huge wash-out trenches through the fields...but with a little luck and God willing we might get a crop this year.


The vegetables are doing well. The strawberries are done, the raspberries aren't as nice as we'd like...with last years drought they are producing on shorter than average canes that got pretty beat up from strong winds eariler...


So, with your droughty conditions..you now have much needed rains....You get what you get....and be thankful for that....our rains came in large doses...the winds and hail are the costs you pay.


P.S.
Hope our wife is feeling better...I can feel for her....Gall Bladder problems are very painful and that kind of inner pain can be so hard to cope with....my thoughts are with her.


----------



## grapeman

When the rains ended last night, the pool was overflowing the skimmer and it had been 6 inches low and I was ready to add some water. That job took care of itself. I couldn't work in the garden or vineyard last evening. I walked out between downpours and there was water standing like in your pictures of last month. Probably the fungal diseases will have a field day now. Oh well. Like you say you get what you get and I am thankful. We did luck out and didn't have severe wind or hail right here. We are right on the edge of the warm front and that is where the thunderstorms are forming. More expected today and worse again tomorrow. July is typically our driest summer month. It could be much worse.......


Thanks for your concern for my wife. She has been doing very well and like you she keeps going- even hasn't taken time off from work except for the day she went to the doctor. They had scheduled her for an ultrasound for this Friday but called and wanted to reschedule sooner. Then they called and wanted her in the office yesterday, so she went after work. Now she is scheduled for a CT Scan for this afternoon after work. They are afraid it has affected the pancreas also. With everyones kind thoughts she will get through this fine. Thanks


----------



## NorthernWinos

I started with the ultra sound and they could see the Gall Stones...but they didn't know why my liver was soswollen...come to find a stone was working it's way into the liver. The surgery was an easy one...4 little holes, one for a camera, one for gas to blow up your abdomen and two that they worked through.....Hope they find out her problem and fix her up soon, inside hurting is scarey and very painful...eating absolutely no fats helped with the stones till I had surgery.


Last night we got .96", very strong winds today and chilly....blowing rain now....the coolness is headed east...so you'll have relief soon.


----------



## swillologist

The rain is skirting us now. We're still not hurting. The heat is supposed to let up the rest of the week that will help. 
Hope they get your wife fixed up in a hurry. Until then she will be in our prayers.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Went out to survey the wind damage...the outer rows of the field corn has blown down and some of the fields are leaning...not too bad....should recover. The neighbors small grains have lodged in places. 


In the garden the oldest sweetcorn has blown down and the young stuff is leaning...might recover..[?] The onions are blown over, some of the leaves are snapped....should be okay.


Many ripe raspberries were on the ground, even some whole clusters were blown off the canes....went picking between rain and sunshine....they were a little mushy...went right into the freezer....have enough for a batch of wine...will bepicking forbatch #2 now...Life is Good!!!


Hang onto your hats out East....it's headed yur way and packing quite a punch.

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

These are growing all along my back fence, I pick them and throw at the kids....What are they? *Edited by: JWMINNESOTA *


----------



## NorthernWinos

You throw them at the kids???? Are the kids trespassing??? In which case they would be called trespassers....


As for the berries...don't know...How bigare the bushes??? Looks like an ornamental bush from the leaves and pretty berries.


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

OK, kidding about throwing them at kids, they remind me of the Pyracantha bushes we had in the southwest, I've asked a few around here and they don't know.They are a pretty ornamental, just wondered what they were.


----------



## NorthernWinos

I thought of Beauty Berry, but those grow in long clusters. Cotoneaster could be another guess...but the berries look plum color now. Do they turn red by fall?


Do they taste okay??? Soft or hard...?


----------



## grapeman

I'm half blind but to me they look like a type of ornamental crabapple. The leaves are apple shaped and the fruit ends look like the calyx of an apple blossom. They do look sem-transparent as some crabapples are. My guess would b a naturally occuring crabapple seeded by the birds. 


Reminds me of some stange apples out there. You should see Budagovski rootstock trees. They are spiny with thorns, have purple leaves and the apples are oblong plum shaped.


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

NW the other berries on these are a lighter, orange-ish color, after they get to this color they get a littledarker, then fall off. They are about the size of a Le Sueur Pea




, very soft, can squeeze them easily, haven't tasted, a little gun shy of putting in my mouth not knowing what they are, no real smell to them either.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Everything is growing like crazy.... 


Edelweiss Grape...






Louise Swenson...






Beta Fruit have reached their usual size....barely a whisper of a purple thinge...






The vines are all gone wild...don't know where to start thinning to let some sunshine and air inside...will wait for awhile....No sign of fungus so far...



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## swillologist

I was out wondering around the yard this evening. Hereare some of the pictures of the high bush cranberries I took.














I don't think the birds will get all of these.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Will you try some wine out of them??? Mine are about that ripe too.


----------



## swillologist

I could if I knew how to tell when they are ripe. I think you have to wait until after a frost anyway to pick them. These are the ones that came up wild in the wet place below the orchard. I have a couple of bushes in the backyard also. They look all beat up compared to the wild ones but they still have berries on them.


----------



## scotty

drool drool


----------



## NorthernWinos

Bought a PixWell Gooseberry plant this spring and made some cuttings....they were growing on their own now... 






So set them out today with the Mother Plant...






How many plants are needed to make wine????
We found a wild gooseberry plant out in the woods while picking Chokecherries...the Gooseberries were ripe and dark in color and not very tasty...




Anyone ever made Gooseberry wine???


The Black Currant cuttings that I set out a while ago are catching up to the bare-root plants I set out this spring...






Anyone ever made wine from their own Black Currants???? How many plants are needed to make a batch of wine???....the Vintners Harvest Fruit Base made such a great wine....will probably do another batch while these are growing and reproducing.
Hope all the babies make it through the winter and produce in a few years...

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## NorthernWinos

The very disease prone valiant grapes are looking really good...Turning purple and not a hint of mold/mildew/mummified fruit...Here's hoping they get sweet and ripe.









The Louise Swenson's are still green...they are a white variety...






Some of the others that should be turning purple are still green...






Apples are very large and loaded the branches to breaking points...
Duchess..




Hazen.....




Goodland...






If all goes well we should get some fruit to make wine this fall, a little rain would be nice.


----------



## Lmcirig

If I could give you some of our rain I would!!! We don't need any more. I haven't had to water my garden once since spring.


Nice crop you have though- looks like you'll have lots to do in a few weeks huh?!!


----------



## jobe05

Those are about the best looking bunch of apples hanging from a tree that I have ever seen. Do you do any spraying to keep the bugs off? Every yard apple tree I have ever seen has these big black spots and dents in the apples from various things, doesn't look like you have that problem.

However, Keep posting pics like that and pretty soon a tent will appear in the background............

Did I ever tell ya that I planted 2 crabapple trees? They are very hard to find in NC but I found 2 good size trees (7 foot above ground when planted) and put them in the front yard.


----------



## NorthernWinos

I have never sprayed apples...we have been growing them for over 30 years....some at our last place and these here.


We are pretty remote so maybe just lucky...or...living on borrowed time.


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

All your fruits look great, I think you live closer to Heaven than the rest of us!


----------



## NorthernWinos

The fall bearing Redwing raspberries have sent up their new canes, budded, been pollinated by those wonderful Bumble Bees and the fruit is setting on nicely.... 




By the looks of some of the berries might even get a few to ripen before frost this year.


The apples are just hanging...









Pretty windy today and many are dropping...the seeds are brown and the early ones are getting sweet....will be making juice from these 'free-falls'...so will have some 'wine-fix'in's'*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## NorthernWinos

Harvested the onions today....






Anyone ever made Onion Wine???? Would think it would be a good marinade...?


Kind of bitter/sweet pulling the produce out of the garden and storing it in the old shed....Next move is when it gets cold and the produce goes to the root-celler....The seasons are moving along all too quickly!


----------



## Wade E

Thats a lot of onions and apples and they all look great!


----------



## Waldo

NW...Why do they call them "root-cellars"? As a kid on the farm I remember all Mothers canned goods as well as the onions, potatoes, smoked bacon and hams went to the root cellar. It was nice going down in there in the hot summertime and popping the seal on a jar of pickled peaches


----------



## NorthernWinos

My folks had a 'root-cellar'...it had potatoes, onions, carrots, my Mother's Dahlia bulbs...her canning jars were seperate....I guess the last generation coined that phrase....I keep all that same stuff down there too... and now the wine.....So...it is now a Root/Wine Cellar. What are you keeping in your 'Storm-Cellar'???? 


Guess we are all very fortunate to have a place to store all our food and wine....





The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
They just make the best of everything they have. 
To feel rich, count all the things you have that money can't buy.
*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## swillologist

I have a recipe foronion wine too NW.



It says it good for cooking or soaking brats. I wonder will red onions make a red wine.



*Edited by: swillologist *


----------



## NorthernWinos

Red onions and red cabbage look pretty nasty when they are cooked....don't know if red onions would make a pretty colored wine once fermented....


An onion or garlic wine really intrigues me...maybe one day I'll give it a whirl.


----------



## Waldo

Northern Winos said:


> My folks had a 'root-cellar'...it had potatoes, onions, carrots, my Mother's Dahlia bulbs...her canning jars were seperate....I guess the last generation coined that phrase....I keep all that same stuff down there too... and now the wine.....So...it is now a Root/Wine Cellar. What are you keeping in your 'Storm-Cellar'????
> 
> 
> Guess we are all very fortunate to have a place to store all our food and wine....
> 
> 
> Only wine at the present NW...And an occasional frightened soul when a storm rolls in..which has been a long time since the last one. We are needing some rain desperately. My yard has turned crunchy and the trees are beginning to get pretty stressed too. Some of the Maples are already shedding leaves.
> 
> 
> 
> The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
> They just make the best of everything they have.
> To feel rich, count all the things you have that money can't buy.


 *Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## NorthernWinos

WOW!!! Your dry down there??? I thought you guys were in the flood zone.


It is so sad to see our soybean crop begin to die....the bottom leaves are turning yellow and falling off, the top pods have fallen and the other pods are pretty flat, like our pockets will be...again....The corn crop is in amazingly good condition..


Many trees are loosing leaves here also. I dragged the hose out to the young fruit trees and loosened the nozzle and couplers and let them dribble on each tree for half a day...think they enjoyed a good soaking.


Watering the garden again today, it got it last week too, so the tomatoes, peppers, cauliflower, squash...etc.... will be happy...getting more produce than we can keep up with....giving and processing in full swing now.


We have been cutting red oak fire wood on the cool mornings...as we cut we see more trees with leaves turning brown...more firewood for future years.


Guess God give you what you need, not necessarily what you want.


----------



## rgecaprock

NW,


I want to go grocery shopping at your house!!!!


Ramona


----------



## NorthernWinos

Juiced up some Free-Fall apples...







Going to start processing the early apples that are falling...also have to round-up more jars before this season is over.


----------



## Wade E

With all you have going, when your done there probably wont be any left in your state!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Grapes are turning color now...must be the shorter days and cool nights...

Some of the leaves are looking worn and turning colors as well.


Beta [Concord X Wild Montana]...Bigger fruit and looser clusters than the Valiant [Fredonia X Wild Montana]






Frontenac...finally turning






King of the North....long loose clusters...






Swenson Red....showing some color now...






Louise Swenson....just a few clusters on young vines...






Edleweiss....cut off some leaves and there were some clusters...a great wine/table grape.






So...fall is making it's presence....Like it or not!!!


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

Looking really great NW!


----------



## swillologist

Awesome NW!


----------



## grapeman

Won't be long now and you will have some more fruit for wine- Oh wait a minute, you've been getting tons of a wide assortment all summer.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Thanks guys.....The grapes are looking nice now....seems they show up more when they get a bit of color.


Seems overwhelming to face all those apples, grapes and tomatoes...but will plug along and juice/process/can and might just freeze some of the grapes....What are we going to do with all this fruit and wine?????


Running out of jars and freezer space......Guess that is a good thing.






Appleman....within the next year or two you are going to have tons of grapes.....What's your plan???? A commercial winery????


----------



## Wade E

Looking grape I mean great there NW!


----------



## Waldo

Maybe appleman could start a commune for us winemakers and we could all move in together and start our own winery


----------



## Wade E

Waldo!


----------



## Waldo

Ill start letting my hair grow back out and will bring my flute . Can tie die me a pair of old jeans with some Muscadine, Blackberry, Peach, Apple and Plum wine.*Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## grapeman

Now NW, that's secret information. I'm flexible, or at least my agenda is- I'm not too flexible myself anymore-too many creaks and groans. 


Waldo, I wanted all you guys to chip in and help me set up that winery and vineyard by the lake, but we were just short of the money needed to buy the farm for the vineyard! I'm having to move in small increments without much for funds- but I'm having fun!






I got myself 3 - 20 gallon jugs with lids for primary buckets last week. Food grade stuff with handles and sealable lid. I plan on remodeling the old barn this fall and winter to set up a small farm winery. Plenty of room in it for all my activities.


Time will tell and eventually so may I.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Keep us Posted on your ventures.


----------



## Wade E

Will you go commercial at all? If you did open for wine tastings I would definitely pack up the wife and kids or just leave them behind and venture out there for a day and help you (



) set up!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Crabapples are now beginning to fall....so picked a couple buckets to relieve the little tree of some weight.. 






They juice up nicely just left whole...








Hard to keep up to the produce these days....guess that makes life good...*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## Joanie

Those are beautiful, NW!!!!! I'm jealous!!!


----------



## swillologist

Looks good NW! Apples didn't do good here this year.


----------



## jobe05

Those are big CrabApples NW.......... What Brand/type are they? Mine will produce 3/8" to 1/2" fruit. The biggest I could find online was 5/8" round fruit. Yours look like they are an inch or two in diameter............


----------



## Waldo

Now that will make some mighty fine juice for blending with others for some great wine


----------



## Wade E

Jobe, the 1's I found on a tree are about an inch and NW's are at least 3 x's bigger. NW, those are huge!


----------



## NorthernWinos

All the apples got big this year...hard on the tree limbs. 


This is a Trail Crabapple....they are sweet and crisp.....the nursery I got them fromdoesn't have them any more, St. Lawrence Nursery might have them........they are near 2 inches in diameter this year. The first year the tree bared the deer ate every one of them...the past 2 years they fell off before I got to them...so this is the first time I loaded up on them....lost 2 branches tho....



...poor little tree...I should have propped up some branches.





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## Wade E

NW, that is just amazing how many and the size of them per branch!


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

I think the good folks at Miracle Grow could learn a thing or two from NW.


----------



## NorthernWinos

They have never been fertilized or sprayed....Just a good year....Lots of rain in June...then none since the beginning of July.


----------



## grapeman

St. Lawrence doesn't have them either but have a cross using trail that sounds very similar.




*Hardiness:* *E*—Extremely hardy, *V*—Very hardy, *M*—Moderately hardy, *P*—May need extra protection. 
*Code column:* *a*-_notably_ annual bearer (many cultivars without this code bear annually, but an "a" tree exhibits exceptionally dependable annual bearing *b*-baking *c*-cider *e*-eating *f*-ornamental flowers *g*-jelly* j*-juicy* k*-keeper *l-*large fruit* o*-aromatic* p*-productive* r*-ripens over long season* s*-sauce* u*-unusual flavor* v*-vigorous *y*-bears young *$*-sells well at market stands, *DR(sfr)-*Disease Resistance to ``s'' (scab),``f'' (fireblight), or ``r'' (cedar apple rust). 

<TABLE border=1>
<CAPTION> 

<T></T>
<T>
</T></CAPTION>
<T>
<TR>
<TD>*Variety*</TD>
<TD>*Hardiness*</TD>
<TD>*Parentage*</TD>
<TD>*Color*</TD>
<TD>*Season*</TD>
<TD>*Description*</TD>
<TD>*Code*</TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD><A name=Trailman></A>Trailman Apple-crab</TD>
<TD>E</TD>
<TD>Trail X Osman</TD>
<TD>Green overlaid with red</TD>
<TD>Early-mid</TD>
<TD>Superhardy crabapple about 2 inches in diameter, with good eating and canning quality. Flesh crisp, juicy. Tree vigorous and productive.</TD>
<TD>e, p 
s, v</TD></TR></T></TABLE>


----------



## NorthernWinos

That sounds a lot like this little tree. 


I have to get out there and finish picking the high limbs before we get anymore wind storms.


This photo will make you cringe....hard on the branches....who'd have thought all the apples would have made it through the June-Drop.


----------



## NorthernWinos

The Highbush Cranberries are still hard as little rocks.... 






The baby Elderberry bushes that got set out this spring are blooming now...dang fools!!!!






Rabbits have found the Black Currants and young Nanking Cherry bushes...looks like we are going to go into battle soon....might have to fence that little area with some chicken wire....as well as some traps. Jim has been burning all the brush piles around the farmstead in hopes to eliminate their habitat....sure is a struggle to fight with Mother Nature as well as all the wildlife.





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## grapeman

Such irony....... You planted many shrubs, bushes and trees from the wildlife habitat program and now you have to get rid of some wildlife habitiat! Guess you were too sucessful in getting them to propagate(animals that is)


----------



## Waldo

A couple of cats roaming the area will help too


----------



## grapeman

You are onto something there Waldo. When Imoved to this side of the farm almost 30 years ago we were overrun with rabbits and bears. We got a herd of cats built up and my sister who lives next to me keeps lots of them now that roam my fields. Not a lot of mice, squirrels, chipmunks or rabbits anymore - only catshi.....t!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Harvested some of the Valiant Grapes last night.....some of the stems were turning brown and the grapes were easily knocked off the clusters.


Picked 17# of cleaned grapes...Running them through the juicer today, will either have breakfast juice or make wine with the jars of juice...








Valiant Grapes have tight little clusters of sweet grapes...








They are very disease prone and since I removed the mulch, keep the ground clean and spray regularly have had luck with no diseases....having a dry mid-summer probably helped too. This June was very wet and I did spray regularly....lets hear it for chemical fungicide....





















Sometimes you have toNOT be organic.


The fall raspberries [Redwing] are producing, but have a black and brown beetle that is out there this year....don't want to spray, just pick a few berries for ice cream treats and pancakes...have enough juice and berries in the freezer for 3 more batches of wine.


The Everbearing Strawberries are producing as well and still blooming, those I am stashing in the freezer for wine....they are nicer since the rain of a couple weeks ago, more rain forecast now...However....the slugs are still out there. I have found that rather than sacrificing a can of beer to drown the little devils in, I leave them some over ripe berries.....Before I would toss the berries they had munched on into the straw path and the birds would find them...Now I just leave the berry they ruined near some unripe berries and they willtotally eatit and seem to leave the freshly ripened ones alone till theirs is gone....been working, still do loose some to the slugs.


----------



## Wade E

Nice looking grapes there NW!


----------



## grapeman

Autumn in the Wine Garden is almost as good as summer in the vegetable garden, but certainly better than winter in the living room.


Do those grapes taste like Concord or do they have a different flavor? 


I believe in minimal spraying with the safest chemicals or biologicals available. I try not to spray on a schedule, but rather let the pest pressure dictate when and how often to spray. Watch application rates- too little can be worse than none at all, and too much is dangerous. If you apply too small of an amount, it gives less than perfect control and can lead to mutations and resistance buildup. Know how to ID the pest or disease, learn it's life cycle and find out what effectively controls it. Monitor the pest pressure and when it reaches the proper threshhold at the right life stage, apply spray as a last resort. 


Take for instance a powdery mildew infection late in the year. The grapes have been harvested and the leaves will be dying in a few weeks. Should you just wait it out and let nature take it's course? If there is a lot of it, control it before the end of the growing season. There will be much less overwintering pathogen to get the cycle going the following spring.


----------



## NorthernWinos

I really have never tasted a Concord grape except in Welch's juice...I think they taste like a Concord, at least the juice I make does....The Valiant is a cross between a wild grape and Fredonia....I only got a few grapes off of my Fredonia vine before it died. The Beta grapes are a cross between a wild grape and Concord....The Valiant and Beta taste much alike...but the Valiant is sweeter and not as strong.


I had a tiny bug eating some holes in the grape leaves this summer....they soonleft and went over to the raspberries and ate holes in those leaves, which I didn't care about...other than that I have had no bugs in the grapes.


I had read that planting roses at the ends of the grape rows will be a good indicator of grape vine disease as the roses show the disease sooner and signals you when to spray....


So, I planted roses at the ends of the grape rows...














Then found out these were disease resistant roses...so they just are pretty there.


The only apple tree left with apples is the Harlson Red...





it is a late-keeping apple...so all the other early apples are now either juice, given away and a few in the fridge for eating. The new trees we planted will be later ripening apples.


The grapes are all ripening quickly now....even the Swenson Red...this year they arevery dark in color.....they sure have tough skins.








The white grapes are turning a slight amber color, I suppose I should monitor them with the refractometer...I kind of forget about those because of the color doesn't change much, but now they are starting to look translucent.


Hard to believe that it could freeze within a month and all this good stuff will be gone.....Hope the grapes all ripen before then.


----------



## Wade E

I think that boot looking fungus is telling you there is a disease thats about to kick in.




*Edited by: wade *


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

Grapes are looking really good, hope they continue well for you.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Well I picked the Beta Grapes...they were starting to drop when you'd touch them, some of the stems were turning brown and some were looking like they were shriveling up....so picked them the other evening. I got 39# off that one old timer Beta vine out there...I didn't prune it very much this year....It produced on about 8 feet of vine in each direction of the main trunk...it must be 30 feet long from one end to the other....Next year it gets cut back as I have set out some baby plants on each side of it.


The berries are larger than the Valiant, they are looser and have a longer stem and are easier to cut from the vine.


The flavor is much stronger than the Valiant, very much like Concord grape juice. I got 22 quarts of breakfast drinking juice...I added a little water to the steam extracted juice as the flavor is very strong, could have added even more water to dilute it.


The vines are very disease resistant, extremely hardyand would be a good choice for anyone who wants to make juice and great grape jelly. I have never tried making wine from this juice...maybe someday....the Brix ranged from 18 to 20.5....so it wasn't very sweet.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Light frost was predicted for North of us...I covered some of the garden andalso picked the few grapes that were out on the Louise Swenson vines, Edelweiss and Swenson Red even had a few clusters....












I got 15.5# of fruit....surprised me....






The two Louise Swenson vines were loaded...I thought they only had a few clusters...the berries are large and flavorful....






I will ferment them together and have about 1 1/2 gallon batch of Trinity Wine.


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## grapeman

Northern Winos said:


> Light frost was predicted for North of us...I covered some of the garden andalso picked the few grapes that were out on the Louise Swenson vines, Edelweiss and Swenson Red even had a few clusters....
> 
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> I got 15.5# of fruit....surprised me....
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> The two Louise Swenson vines were loaded...I thought they only had a few clusters...the berries are large and flavorful....
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> I will ferment them together and have about 1 1/2 gallon batch of Trinity Wine.




As usual, they all look great. That should make an interesting wine. Should turn out a ligh blush color. You could always add a couple bottles of the Beta to give it more color and flavor(if you don't mind that flavor in your wine). Keep us informed. *Edited by: appleman *


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## NorthernWinos

Your going to cringe...that I ruined possibly some good grape juice....I steam juiced it like I always do....Yeah, I know....that many grapes I could have crushed with a potato masher...or my feet.


The juice turned out a nice color tho...just those few Swenson Red gave it a nice blush......will get to it sometime his winter....


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## jobe05

NW, Id be interested knowing how the flavor of the grape came through.

You have seen my post regarding the scupppernong that I steamed last year and it had no flavor after fermenting. This year, I tried doing some steamed, some with 1/2 steamed and 1/2 pressed and a batch just all pressed. 

All the pressed skins, are in the fermenter while fermenting, none of the steamed skins are being used. The 50/50 batch is finishing now but has little flavor, the pressed batch is still fermenting but so far, seems to be full flavored. So far, I'm finding that steaming this type of grape seems to wash out the flavor, or the Scuppernong flavor is in the skins moreso than in the grape pulp.

I'll keep ya posted, but would be interested in what you find after fermenting.


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## Wade E

I like the sound of that NW, Trinity wine, hmmm, I see a label in the future!


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## JWMINNESOTA

NW, maybe a silly question, but , do you process the jars after filling, or does the steam process suffice for preserving the juice until your ready for it?


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## NorthernWinos

I heat the juice in a big pot to almost the boiling point, pour into sterilized jars, fill to 1/4-1/8th inch and seal with sterilized tops....The jars always seal when you fill them that full....If you want to process the jars fill to 1/2 inch from the toop....


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## grapeman

Northern Winos said:


> Light frost was predicted for North of us...I covered some of the garden andalso picked the few grapes that were out on the Louise Swenson vines, Edelweiss and Swenson Red even had a few clusters....
> 
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> I got 15.5# of fruit....surprised me....
> 
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> The two Louise Swenson vines were loaded...I thought they only had a few clusters...the berries are large and flavorful....
> 
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> I will ferment them together and have about 1 1/2 gallon batch of Trinity Wine.




I thought I would let you know I just got back from Willsboro. We picked 8 varieties today. One of them was Edelweiss. I got to pick those. There were 4 panels with three vines each. Absolutely loaded vines with bunches up to a pound or so apiece. Remember these are three year old plants and they averaged 30 pounds per vine! I was hoping to get a few of those to try, but ended up with my truck full before I got to those. I'm starting to worry a little about next year. The guy incharge of the technical stuff there was saying he vastly underestimated the crop size there this year. He was going to say those pound estimates he gave were really kilograms


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## Wade E

I think some of us would be willing to help lug some away if need be!



Hey, just remember theres a lot of I's in Fine Vine Wines!



Id even be willing to buy some equipment to press it if the grapes were free.




*Edited by: wade *


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## NorthernWinos

We squeaked by frost from what the meteorologists called the Polar Plunge....think it came pretty close, had frost on the garage roof, but all the plants were spared. 


The tender garden plants we cover with 2 tarps that are 30' X 50', that's pretty simple with 2 people if it's not too windy. I had covered the last 2 vines with grapes on them, the Frontenac and the King of the North. I hung old blankets over the wires and then put a plastic tarp over that, and tucked it all underneath nice and snug...just in case it froze. 


When I uncovered them I noticed that the King of the North grapes were falling off....maybe they don't like temps in the 30*'s...the pup like to eat tehm as well as some pears that fell off the tree in the wind...I picked the grapesand they seemed ripe, but they were only 18-19 Brix...maybe some grapes just don't get any sweeter, they tasted sweet. They are a chance rambunctious seedling that someone propagated...possibley a cross of Concord with something else. They get about 5 times the growth of any other vine we have.....Got 31 pounds of cleaned de-steamed grapes...should get 16-18 quarts of juice...will make a batch of wine sometime this winter.


Don't know if the Frontenac will ever get ripe...they sure are slow...perhaps planting out a row of them this year wasn't a good choice for up here.







*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

I'm glad you escaped the wrath of frost. It got down to 42 right here last night, may get colder tonight and then warm again. Probably that is as high of a brix as King of the North will get. If it is a cross with Concord, that is probably as high as one can expect since Concord don't get real high. That's one reason why wine grapes are used- they get higher sugar concentrations. 4 gallons of juice off one vine is a lot for sure! If you pressed them you would be lucky to get almost three gallons. I can taste it already this winter- yummy.


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## NorthernWinos

I often wonder how much of this juice is steam....? Guess it doesn't matter with what I am doing...these juices are kind of strong and need a bit of water anyway.


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## NorthernWinos

Looking like fall out in the Wine Garden.... 


The fall raspberries are still producing, but all will not have time to ripen...








The grape leavesare showing fall colors....








Everbearing strawberries are also producing, but not all of those will ripen either...The garlic is planted and needs mulching....The grape cuttings are growing well...








The small fruiting bushes have grown and the newly set out cuttings are still protected from the rabbits...








Little Johnny JumpUps are growing everywhere...they are the 'weeds' in the grapes....








Strong winds have the last apple tree dropping it's fruits....can't make the juice fast enough to keep up with the 'free-falls'...will be lots of apple wine made this winter...The neighbor took 2 baskets of apples...yeah!!!!






*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Wade E

Looking good there NW, if only we all had that problem of not being able to keep up with the food chain beating us.


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## NorthernWinos

Not much left in the Wine Garden...a few raspberries and strawberries. The veggie garden was looking pretty tatered and worn, so have been pulling stuff out....









Don't plant many potatoes, but got a good crop from the ones out there...we like rice and pasta better.






Got some awesome Brussels Sprouts out there...they are suppose to be better after a frost....going to try some tonight...without the frost.








One of these days the seasons are going to decide who's going to take over....meanwhile warm andpossible heavy rain for 3 days in the forecast...Que Sera Sera*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## swillologist

Winding down here to NW. I still have sweet potatoes to dig yet and a few carrots. Everything else is pretty well done. If we look we can find a tomato that is still good. Most of it is left now for the wildlife.


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## OilnH2O

Any frost yet???


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## NorthernWinos

There was frost south of us...we are on a ridge and luck out many times.....Some of the cukeleaves were touched on the tops, but the plants were in tough shape....there was frost on the garage roof. 


Our field corn could use a frost, some stalks are still green.


I picked the last of the tomatoes and peppers today and pulled up the plastic mulch.....seems like we just planted all that stuff.



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

"SIGH"....Frost likely tonight and tomorrow night....darn..darn...darn...But everything is looking pretty ratty from age, heavy rain and extremely windy conditions....


So...I went out to say goodbye to some little friends and saw this...










The rabbit has almost eaten all of the black currant cutting/plant-lettes I made this past summer...they should all look like the one in the foreground and back ground....






So....



.....being as I like to watch things grow under the lights during the winter I took a few cuttings....










Have nothing to loose and the stems I cut off will likely get browsed off shorter anyway. I put some flags out there and will spread some thicker straw...so may save the base of the plants....gerrr!


The herbs are still nice,fragrant and tasty....








I dragged the potted geraniums into the garage where I will cut the plant back, make cuttings to grow and share and bring the pot into the downstairs for the winter.








The Begonia pots are in the warmer safety of the greenhouse...will get repotted and shared.










So...the end to another growing season is upon us....So it goes.*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

Still no frost...yeah!!! 


Spent the afternoon making chicken wire cages to pen up my little darlings...made enough for the Black Currant, Gooseberry and Red Currant cutting/plant-lettes....tucked the straw around them and hope they all survive the pending winter months....Finally saw the sun today...Life is Good!!!!



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Waldo

NW I just put out some Blueberry plants and some more blackberries. Both were 2 year old plants but being this is so near the end of the season do you think they would benefit or be better protected if I mulch them heavily with some straw.


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## NorthernWinos

I don't think you get that cold down there to worry.....Does your ground even freeze??? Mulching would however keep the soil an even temperature and conserve the moisture.


*Edit....Blue Berries like acid soil....Is your soil on the acid side??? Ours isn't and when I went to a meeting on growing blueberries they said to amend the planting hole with a lot of peat moss and to feed them with an acid fertilizer every year.You could mulch those with pine needles...that would help them out a lot.*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

After a hard freeze the vines and berry bushes are done for another year....the fall bearing raspberries and everbearing strawberries produced right till a few days ago when I picked almost needing gloves.


Today was a beauty, warm, sunny and calm...a perfect day to do some of the last chores in the garden...


Dug the Dahlias, Canna and Amaryllis bulbs...















After the show they put on this year it wasnot a choreto dig them and with such a spectacular day is was a pleasure.


Still a few flowers trying to make a last statement...


The Potentella shrubs know no season...








The climbing rose protected under the pergola has a few last blooms...








And the roses at the end of the grape rows covered in rose hips don't have a chance of opening it's last buds...but will try anyway...








Seasons are sparring for the position on the calender...love the last of the unseasonably warm days....Life goes on.


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## Wade E

Its amazing that they are still performing the way they are!


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## NorthernWinos

Got the veggie garden cleaned up, a nice layer of composted manure and deep tilled...[My Honey is grateful for the help during harvest]








The Wine Garden has been put to bed for the winter....








Fall is upon us...My work out there is done.


Meanwhile...under the grow lights...a small miracle is taking place...








Looks like the Black Currant cuttings I took away from the browsing rabbits might grow some roots....at least there appears to be roots above the soil line...maybe a few will grow roots in the soil....


These and the geranium cuttings will keep my interest for a some time...


Actually had a 2008 seed catalogarrive....Did gather a few seeds from the perennial flowers outside and will try starting them around January...then the fun begins for another year.


So it goes.


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## grapeman

NW, They are rooting above the soil line because of the high humidity from keeping them covered with plastic. You could repot them in deeper pots and let those roots showing develop further. That would make them very well rooted for next year!


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## NorthernWinos

It's White on White outside today...blowing mist has attached itself onto the trees...even the sky is white....Hard on the morale.


So, I retreated to the laundry room to wash some wine bottles and water my darling cuttings under the growlights...A great day to repot the Black Currant cuttings into their own pots.....we'll see if they survive in theirnew homesthe long winter that is still ahead...








Some of the cuttings were very well rooted, these plant leaves have a strange odor....Someone mentioned that last spring...think it was Appleman.


Some of the geranium cuttings are putting out new leaves and a few house plant cuttingsare rooting well too. I poked a few grapesticks in a pot...some are pushing buds, but not looking promising.


Life goes on.


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## grapeman

Yeah it was me. The smell like cat urine! I was talking to a man this afternoon that grows quite a few currants for wine and he agrees with me that black currants have a bad smell and don't taste all that great on their own, but make a great wine. He operates the first licensed winery in our county.


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## mississippi mud

I AM BLOWEN AWAY NW.THATS A BEAUTIFUL /PEACEFUL PLACE YOU HAVE .CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THIS SPRINGS PICTURES.


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## jobe05

People like you and me could only dream of being in such a place Mud.........


Wait till you see her whole place................................ I'm speechless.........


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## NorthernWinos

Thanks guys...We arepretty blessed...


Some days I look out there and it just seems overwhelming and other days it is wonderful.....But it hasn't come easy, we worked years to get ahead and take advantage of oppertunities...which included selling our other home and moving...Then rebuilding another farm, yardand home...


But.... now after looking at this snow for so many weeks...and know that there are many more weeks of snow and ice ahead...I wonder "why"...then comes summer again and the work begins and the mind is fed.


Here is the Whole Monty...that's me out there picking Raspberries to make the various Raspberry Wines we love so much.


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## jobe05

Post what you want NW................

All I see is my version:


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## mississippi mud

WHAT KIND OF VALVES DO YOU USE ON THOSE FERMENTING TANKS / SILOS?


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## Wade E




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## grapeman

I see things there a bit differently. I see a working farm run by caring folks wanting to make their mark in this world and live in harmony with nature. All around the home are many features meant to be friendly to nature and share nature's bounty. Everywhere I turn in that picture I see more trees and shrubs planted and woodlots interspersed among the fields. It's no wonder you love it there. And only 3 more months to go before the snow decides to go! Stay warm and good luck fishing!


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## mississippi mud

NWwe all seeand respectthe dedication involved .Is this pic from a plane or google earth?


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## mississippi mud

Any deer around there?pictures please!!!


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## NorthernWinos

This photo was taken from an airplane.


Lots of deer around...I don't see any in the photo, tho...I never looked.


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## jobe05

The picture was taken from the Heavens.................

Must be a mirrored image................


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## NorthernWinos

Well...here we are at the end of winter [finally] and the beginning of another growing season.

The snow was pretty much gone, then this past weekend we got lucky and only got the edge of a pretty massive snow storm...within 50 miles there was over 23 inches of snow...so, our 3 or so inches was a walk in the park...However most of it blew into more drifts, companions to the remaining winter's piles.

Last fall the 'Wine Garden' of various fruiting bushes was thickly mulched with straw to protect the plants, save moisture and stop the weeds....The youngest plants were protected from the rabbits with chicken wire cages....Then I placed flags to maybe keep the deer's noses out of the wire cages....Well...the snow drifted there to probably 4 feet and had everything covered for many months....Everything is poking out of the snow now...hard to tell if the late placed out cuttings survived or not...time will tell.






It was total mayhem last week in my tiny vineyard...I had moved in some rangy vines from nursery rows where they had been neglected and left to ramble for a couple years...left them to recover last year...so, now was the time to try to prune them to resemble grape vines.....






Not much left to some of them....






The more tender vines, Edelweiss and Swenson Red which grow on steel panels were lifted from their straw covered bed and drastically pruned....






These two varieties are for Zone 4 [-30*F] and to insure their survival I lay them down each winter. The Frontenac grape is also hardy to -30* I let the old vine hang on the wires...The wood looked green, but this years production is yet to be seen...If it proves hardy the new row of young plants will stay. I lifted the wire with the Canadice grape and decided it has never produced enough to warrant a valuable space...so it was cut off and the root will be dug out and replaced with another wonderful proven Edelweiss. 

So, things are looking like spring...finally.

Hope everyone has a wonderful growing year ahead.


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## grapeman

Good to see things poking through for you NW. Those grape vines look good. They should give you a bit of production this year. Just don't let them bear too far ahead of the roots.


If you want a real trial, you could try to graft the Edelweiss onto the Canadice rootstck since it is established. I brought home about 100 Edelweiss cuttings along with 9 other varieties to root some of.


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## NorthernWinos

We hope to get a few grapes this year and have more orderly looking vines...hopefully next year they will produce more.

There was an old Beta vine that was stretched out 15 feet to each side of the old woody trunk....I cut it back to the old trunk as well as a couple new shoots from the root...Clipped it's 'wings' to about a 5 foot wingspan...So, that old guy will have a shock when it finally wakes up....hope it lives through this.

Some of the others should have pretty good roots by now. About 4 years ago the old vines all died back except for the old guy...so have been replanting since then....so the vines vary in ages. Then last year I put young cuttings out between the posts...So will have more plants and hopefully more fruit. Those young cuttings were pretty shaded last summer by their overgrown companions, so am just happy that most of them looked alive and will have some sunshine on them this season.

This is a growing experience...It just started out as 5 vines planted in 1999 and 2000 for breakfast grape juice...Now look what's happened...we started making wine and entered a whole new world.


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## grapeman

The vines in my Champlain Valley Vineyard post from last weekends pruning are going to start their 4th season. See how large they are and growing well. Here is a link to my little forum I have started on growing cold hardy grapes. We went to another vineyard in the north side of the county the next day to see how to try to prune vines that were never trained much-minimally pruned. It shouldn't be too hard to see the difference proper pruning and training makes. The genleman is growin Valiant, Edelweiss, Concord and a few other cold hardy varieties I don't recall. Don't be afraid to prune- they will respond well and reward you in the future.


http://www.champlaingrapes.com/grapeforum/viewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=15&amp;sid=b9bf70d1921d2b8f5fed0eff0f4dd235


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## NorthernWinos

Good information there and gives me a little better feeling about having placed a new plant between the older ones....started to think that 5 feet apart was too close.

Kind of embarrassed to show these poor old vines. The Old Guy has some serious wood on it...so am glad to have some younger canes coming into production from the base. The old vines that died were this thick in girth with peeling bark....it was an open winter after I had removed the mulch due to fungus problems on one of the varieties...so I think they died from having shallow roots exposed to an open winter. I still need to go back out with a saw to do some trimming on the big wood.







It's mate...I have left for dead...I thought it might have had some new growth last year, but upon pruning found most of the new vines had come 10 feet from the other vine. I have left this one stay for now as some vines at the base may be alive...If they are not alive will likely set out a new plant this spring in it's place...These were the first Betas we had planted.






This is one of the first cuttings I set out after the winter kill...so they are coming along.






This is such an exciting time of the year...time to see what survives and what will produce...the season of promise. 

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

Due to over crowding in the sun room and under the grow lights I had to move some plants out to the greenhouse....The weather has been pretty fickle, but is tending to be more spring like.

Here are the little Black Currant cuttings and 2 Louise Swenson grape vine-lings that I grew during the winter...They have now made the first step out into the real world...frist stop an unheated greenhouse...tonight I plugged in a couple heat lamps to keep all my babies warm.


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## grapeman

How are your currants doing in the Wine Garden? Mine are starting to open buds - hope they don't freeze when we get another frost! I can't believe what they did over winter- never seen anything like it before(unless I just didn't notice it last fall). They say that they push new growth from low on the stem or underground every year. Well mine were buried in snow all winter. I checked them out Sunday again. They have pushed all sorts of new stems a few inches long, looking like little fuzzy fingers with leaves on at the base of the stems. Pretty cool looking.


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## NorthernWinos

I just came in from a cruise through the Wine Garden....

I had made cuttings last summer from the PixWell Gooseberry and Red Lake Currants and set them out very late fall....put chicken wire around them and fluffed straw over them...I think they all made it, even the ones about 4" tall have little green sprouts.

I had made cuttings last spring from a leggy potted plant of Consort Black Currant that a friend gave me...those are getting leaves, as well as all the Ben Sarek Currant plants...I didn't pull the straw away to look for sprouts, will check it out.

The Juneberries are getting buds...damn fools...we have a few more weeks that we can get frosty nights.

The Nanking Cherries and Sand Cherries, are getting buds....they usually bloom before they get leaves. The single plants of Nero Aronia, Hinnomaki Gooseberry and Josta Berry are all showing signs of life. Garlic is coming up through the straw....Rhubarb is growing red knobs on the crowns....no asparagus yet.

Everything seems to have made it...don't think there was any frost in the ground...lots of straw mulch and lots of early snow that stayed all winter...no open spots except over the sewer drain field...will put a row of Nanking Cherries there in hopes of catching snow in future years. I have moved a lot of shrubs and roses with no signs of frost.

Getting near the time that the Counties have their bare root trees ready for pickup...I ordered Nanking Cherries, Sand Cherries and Nero Aronia [Chokeberry]...a friend in another county ordered Juneberries and Elderberries [unknown name, but black]...we are going to trade some...I also ordered a couple more Adam's and York Elderberries...Now comes the hard part...figuring out where to plant all this stuff.

These old bones are really getting a work out...I feels so good after being 'dormant' all winter.



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

Finally the day arrived...the County trees were available for pick up.....

Got them bright and early....got home in time to do my 'wifely duties' and run back to town for planter parts.....got home and ran back to town for more parts....

Then the fun began....Installed the Nanking Cherries where we wanted a hedge to gather snow...






Then the Sand Cherries....will have Elderberries at the end of this row....






This is an area between the yard and a semi wild area that only gets mowed with the brush hog....trying to get it a little more civilized out there...

Tomorrow will install the Aronia [Chokeberries]

As well my replacement grapes arrived...I had called Jung's on Sat with the bad news they had shipped the wrong vines...Here it is Wednesday PM and they are here from Wisconsin...Great service.

The magic of spring is in the air.


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## grapeman

You really must have had some cold snowy weather the last while. I don't see much for leaves on any of the trees yet. I see you don't want to weed around those plantings, putting down mulch/ground cover. Is that stones around them too? Sounds like a fun filled day down on the farm.


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## NorthernWinos

Are trees suppose to have leaves????? It's been a long time...seems I remember leaves.....They are budding....Finally.

Those trees around the pond are mostly dead.....A huge storm blew most of them down a few years ago...Now there are no trees to soak up the water...so most of the remaining trees are dead and blow down because the soil is moist.

Some of them will [might] have leaves this year...I hope. 

Yes...that is stones around the base...might keep rodents away....





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

Did a walk about the yard and Wine Garden this morning....Talk about slow...

May 3rd 2007.....[Last Year]





May 13th 2008...





Last year the Nanking Cherries were blooming...it was cold and bees were scarce....This year the buds are tight...





Looks like the Pear bud on the top is even giving me 'the finger'....





Juneberries are in about the same shape as last week....





Gooseberries and Black Currants have leafed out...and are at a stand still...








Look how slow the grape buds are...





The Aronia plants are set out and protected...have to get out there and mulch them...





Guess all we need is some heat at this point....It's going to be a short growing season this year.

Hope we get some fruit this year....but there is always Vintners Harvest Wine Bases....





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

I'm hoping for a few Black Currants this year- a few million by the looks of it! 
This is five Titania Black Currants. I also have 10 Prince Consort that are a bit smaller.
















Look toward the top of this photo near the center. That's a bumble bee causght in mid flight. Tons of all bees today. It was in the 70's, bright sunshine and calm winds. I will post more photos tomorrow in my post.



*Edited by: appleman *


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## NorthernWinos

You tied your Black Currants to a wire...is that what we are suppose to do???? Or...just that variety???? Mine are like a bush.

Are those apple Blossoms????? It's been so long I forget what things are suppose to look like.

How close together are your grape vines?????

Guess our stuff will come on once we get some heat....

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

The Titania Black Currants grow to 4-5 feet tall. I planted them at the end of a row of grapes, so I just continued the trellis wire on. Yes I did tie the currants to the wire- not needed all the time, but since the wire is there, I will use it to keep those tall ones upright.


Yes those are apple blossoms- you will see them some day. Last year you were ahead of us, this year the other way around.


The grape vines you see are seven feet apart in rows 9 feet apart. 


I have a bunch more apple blossom pictures and some grape vines starting to leaf out some with small shoots. I took them this evening after being at Willsboro and I just don't feel lively enough to battle the download. It takes about 2 minutes per picture right now for some reason.


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## farmer

NW Looks like I have my work cut out for me to get my new trees to look that good . Mine are plantedacross last years soybeanstubble. 


The plastic looks like a good idea, I have done alot of hoeing in the past around new trees.


I am still thinking about ordering some black currents is there a big difference in the varieties?


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## grapeman

From what I am seeing there can be a big difference int the currants. I only have two kinds of black ones and the differences are huge. The Titania are a LOT bigger than the Prince Consort. The bushes are twice as big after just one year in the ground. The Consort bushes have maybe a dozen blossoms per 18 inch high bush. The Titanias are just covered with blossoms and have a lot of new shoots pushing out the ground for next years crop and areover 4feet tall. Another big difference is the disease resistance. The Titania stay clean very easily and the Consort get plastered with mildew very easily. The only negative I see so far is the smell. The Titania have more of the Black Currant smell others tell me is normal for black currants. It's a good thing the wine tastes better than the smell.


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## K&GB

Appleman,


What can I say? WOW!!! Nice photos. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy them.


NW,


I love the title "Wine Garden". I really hope things warm up for you this week. Thanks for the pics. They fuel my dreams for the future.


Ken


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## NorthernWinos

Finally the Wine Garden is coming to life...

Red Currants are blooming....




Black Currants...




Aronia....




Juneberries....




The Wild Plums strong fragrance is attracting most of the bees....the only bees I saw today were Honey Bees....that is a good thing...





Wish all my tiny bushes were producing....give them a few years and there will be many different wines....

A strange thing has happened this year....The Nanking Cherries which are usually the first thing to bloom, only bloomed along the bottom, like below snow line. Not just mine but the fellow in town with the hedge of them also has only flowers along the bottom of his hedge....there will be no Nanking Cherries this year...

Will have to make do with other fruits, or....the Bumper Crop in a Can...Vintners Harvest Fruit Bases.


*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

Glad to see things bloomin' there now. I see some dandelion wine in that next to last picture!


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## NorthernWinos

We could have vats of Dandelion Wine going if we were so inclined....a bumper crop of those around this yard.

Guess we will make do with what fruits we do get this year....probably down the line will wish I would be making use of all these yellow flowers.


----------



## Wade E

I too have seen quite a few Honey Bees this year despite all the talk. Very glad to see this as last year I dont recall seeing any at all and that worried me.


----------



## swillologist

The rabbits did a job on the nanking cherries here. There were a few blooms on the ones they didn't chew on. I had to cut must of them down and let them start over. 


I only saw one bumblebee on the trees this spring. I never did see any honeybees. Most of the pollinating was done by smallinsects. I need to get my spray schedule going but I hate to spray the little buggers after all the work they did. But it needs to be done. If the wind cooperate tomorrow, I will have to get started on that. *Edited by: swillologist *


----------



## NorthernWinos

When I mowed the yard the other day I saw baby bunnies....hope the dogs see them too. In the past I put chicken wire around the youngest fruiting bush plants, but set out 62 assorted ones this year, so won't be 'fencing' them off.

Earlier I saw Bumble Bees and little insects, but yesterday was Honey Bee Heaven in the fruit trees. Last year seeing a Honey Bee was a rare event.

Hope in a few years to have a regular supply of various small fruits for wines......Yuuuummmm...can hardly wait.

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## NorthernWinos

The Wine garden has been pretty slow awakening this spring....

The Nanking Cherries must have suffered from the late spring....or harsh winter.....never have they not bloomed in their 8 years....This year the only blossoms we around the bottom of the bushes [snow line] and the very young [short] bushes. 

The apple trees usually produce abundantly with both flowers and fruit...this year the flowers are sparse on most trees...One bi-annual tree is loaded with flowers and is a pretty reliable bi-annual producer.

The Sand Cherries and June Berries are fully flowered. The wild Choke Cherry trees are starting to flower....had a bumper crop last year.

The grapes are slow to come around. I pruned hard after a few years of neglect.....Some of the older vines with hard wood are sprouting some new shoots, still bleeding from the lifeless ends and will have to be rejuvenated with new growth for next year. 

The younger vines are looking pretty good...













The Strawberries are loaded with flowers and the raspberries have nice buds....
So, we will get what we can for the Winemaking Effort....there are always those jars of juices from last year we can tap into...and perhaps a few batches of Black Currant from those reliable cans.

So...what's in your gardens????


----------



## NorthernWinos

So...Is there any hope for these little guys???






The road ditches are glowing with Chokecherry blossoms....We L



VE that...






One bi-annual bearing apple tree is blooming...





But the neighbors Crabapple trees are loaded with flowers...so, there will be apple wine of one sort or another...There is always those jars of juice in the larder...

As well the Sandcherries and Juneberry bushes are loaded....

God willing...there will be fruit wines of this vintage....


----------



## grapeman

Still looking better all the time NW. Why wouldn't there be hope for those little guys. I hope the frost is over until at least July or August for you.


----------



## NorthernWinos

We just have to hope for a long hot summer and late fall for things to mature. So far it has been pretty cool around here....

Every now and them we get an average day and almost melt.


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Quite cool here too, NW. I had posted on the other forum about trouble with a few of my vines. Appleman answered saying he was experiencing the same problem - the pruning cuts just wouldn't stop leaking and had become infected with a fungus probably. You said you have the same sort of continued leaking from your pruning cuts. Any sign of infections at the wounds?


----------



## NorthernWinos

I had the leaking on the oldest canes...the ones that were very woody and larger in caliber....Thought it was pretty early when I pruned....but they just kept dripping....you could hear the drops hitting the ground and there was a puddle in the dirt...Wondered about making some syrup...?

I haven't noticed any infection there...just kind of funky, maybe mold....will look tho. There are some shoots coming near the main trunk...so will have to train them into new 'arms' on the vine.

I went to a rose seminar once and a Rosarian had an unusual tip. She said when you prune your rose canes to prevent disease to dust them with Comet...[yes, the sink cleaning stuff]...She said it has bleach in it. 

Wonder if there is a product for grape canes....?


----------



## NorthernWinos

Have been watching everyones Posts with fabulous vine photos....So, figured I should go out and tend my vines.

I
saw many suckers growing from the bases of some of the vines....This
was very painful....some had tiny clusters of flower buds on
them...recalling unripened grapes last year near ground level... I
pulled them...*was that a good thing to do?????* As well I rubbed off some buds along the trunk...Looked better for sure, more like the *Big Guys* vines.

Then
came the old vines with woody trunks and arms....I thought I might like
to make a whole new vine there and had to make a decision...keeping one
or two of the suckers to train as a new vine....I sorted through them
and tried to find ones starting closest to the ground level....Some
were large and boistrious ....having heard our Vine Guru Appleman
mention Bull Canes I wondered if these were them...or just a strong
vine...Others tho very small appeared to have tiny clusters along the
stems....hard decisions...so I left a couple...*Which to choose????
*
I thought I would do a little tidying up...clipped some of the dead ends off of some of the half dead looking vines....



They started to drip again...That was obviously not the thing I should have done....???

So...some
vines look much better....Others have been abused...Others, the younger
[middle aged] vines are well on their way to bring forth nice
crops...they are loaded with flower buds and will be a joy to watch
through the summer.

The row of tender vines that are growing on
wire panels are alive...some with a few clusters...and my thoughts are
they are not worth the space and extra caring for, laying down in the
fall and lifting in the spring .....I think in time they will be
replaced...either with my old tried and true juice/wine grapes....or
with some of the new hardy vines I am trying to grow and let hang on
the wires over winter.ar is slow coming around, but is alive. Baltic Amber who had been touched with
So...just having fun
So...it's
just for fun that I am trying to grow these grapes in this hostile
environment...and...to try to grow something that others say can't be
grown here....and along the way and having fun doing it.</font></font>
</font></font></font></font>*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## grapeman

It is a good thing to pull those suckers at the base of the vine unless you want to try some fan trained vines. If so let half a dozen of them grow if the main vine looks almost dead. This fall you can lay them on the ground and let the snow cover them protecting the buds. Then next spring tie them up to the trellis in a fan shape. They will get clusters all along the canes and give a good crop. You let some new canes form next year and those become the new fan the next year. 


To get a new trunk going choose a cane of moderate growth. That will form a better more prolific trunk than the bull canes will.


Don't clip off dead looking canes this time of year. They may look dead, but will still bleed quite a bit. Often they will sprout new growth from basal buds- buds that were covered over from a year or so again and they will sprout- a type of adventitious bud.


Best of luck to you with this years' crop!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Is it too early to spray for fungus...or...too late????

I have some sprays with copper and some other ones...maybe a blend of some....Bordeaux..Bordo....?


----------



## grapeman

It isn't too early. I have put on two sprays alreay. Look through this link. It has good information, timing and sprays that can be used for each. It is for New York and Pennsylvania, but your location should use the same recommendations. Just check labels before getting any spray to make sure it is approved for the pest you intend to use it on. It is easier to prevent a disease than get rid of it.


http://ipmguidelines.org/grapes/content/CH05/default.asp


----------



## NorthernWinos

Appleman....Gee...that's a whole brain full of information on that site.

I have only noticed some bugs once last year, they were tiny worms. They made some holes in the leaves, then moved off to the raspberry leaves...didn't really seem to be a problem.

My main problems are mildews and some sort of bunch rot on one variety [Valiant, notorious for disease, but very hardy] ....I will look at the sprays I have and get on it soon.

The Juneberries are prone to a fungus and finally last year I got a few berries by spraying them at the same time as the grapes. They get an orange bumpy fungus on the fruit, with the spray they were pretty clean till some of the last berries when I quit spraying.

It finally has started to rain here....now we get a little everyday....No flooding like south of here...that is devastating....my heart goes out to you folks with too much of a good thing.


----------



## NorthernWinos

This the pest management guide that I have been using...from the U of Wisconsin....simple....but not as informative.

Perhaps over time we will be needing more sophisticated sprays up here...

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/pdf/A2129.pdf


----------



## grapeman

That guide you have is probably good for you and gives you some general control. The one I listed is much more in depth and is intended for commercial vineyards(but it has lots of useful information in it) I especially like the timing intervals it gives you and what to be spraying for at those times. The rot you have is probably black rot. Captan takes care of that and should be begun prior to bloom and continue until the grapes are larger than peas-more like marbles. 


The mildews can be powdery or downey. Captan helps prevent downey mildew. Powdery you can use sulfur on or an unlisted preventative cure for it is simple baking soda. It isn't listed for it so you will need to apply it to make the vineyard smell "fresh".


Glad you are getting some nice rains. We have had some nasty weather today- lots of thunderstorms with wind. We didn't get the hail, but it was in the area the size of golf balls. The last cell to go through had rotation in it but no tornado. The tornado watches were up all day but hopefully have expired by now.*Edited by: appleman *


----------



## NorthernWinos

I was watching the Weather Channel and saw there was severe weather over Lake Champlain and wondered if you were safe....know that lightening is attracted to you and wondered about that....Take care.


----------



## swillologist

appleman is that baking powder or baking soda. I have never heard of using baking powder is all. I guess you can learn something new everyday.


----------



## grapeman

swillologist said:


> appleman is that baking powder or baking soda. I have never heard of using baking powder is all. I guess you can learn something new everyday.




I can never keep the two straight in my mind. It is Baking Soda- the stuff you put in the refrigerator to keep it fresh. I was a bit distracted when I wrote that the first time. We had storms on and off all afternoon and evening. 


Baking Soda isn't listed as being useful, but it does seem to give some curative action for mildews. The evidence is all anecdotal but hey, it can't hurt anything and will make things smell fresh.


Here is a little reading for it.
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/bakingsoda.html*Edited by: appleman *


----------



## bilbo-in-maine

Also not listed probably is ... milk! Whole milk, skim or even powdered apparently has some effect on PM. I tried it last summer, and others have commented on other forums that it seems to give them some relief from PM infection. I believe the proper ratio is one part milk to nine parts water for one tenth mixture. It needs to be applied fairly often and for full coverage. Google it for more info.


----------



## swillologist

Thanks for the information appleman. I don't normally have a problem with fungus here. We unusually have some sun and good air movement. This year is a different story. It is wet all the time. Hopefully that will settle down before long. A couple of years ago we had a bad case of black rot on the apples. I guess that is where you look at a bad thing as a good thing. We didn't have any apples last year so there was nothing for it to carry over on. I haven't noticed any this year yet. I use an all purpose orchard spray. I seem to work on most of the problems we have here. Al though it didn't work on black rot. If I have trouble withI will have to ask you what I should be using.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Much happiness in the Wine Garden this morning...It's raining...

Got ½" in the past 3 hours....This will make the vines grow like crazy, they are starting to look a little ragged...






The Juneberries should fill and ripen, will have to spray for fungus again...The Raspberries will be very happy too....

The Strawberries should also plump up and and get nice juicy....this will bring out the slugs tho....





Garlic is really looking good this year....that's it between a couple rows of Strawberries, the row will be planted in a new location this fall.

I am sure all the wild fruit will benefit from this rain....looks like we will be getting a little bit more this PM.....

Life is Good!!!


----------



## Wade E

Looking great there NW.


----------



## grapeman

I will gladly send some more rain back over to you. It has been raining on and off again today since before noon. The Wine Garden is looking great! If you think things are looking ragged, you should see other folks stuff out there! Your is great as usual- love makes a difference.


----------



## uavwmn

NW, Y



our garden is beautiful!!!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Appleman....would love to have a little more rain....in a perfect World an inch a week would be nice....

Our crops, fruits and veggies are doing fine...seems the only thing that starts to suffer are some of the perennial flowers, I tend to plant them a little too thick. The newly seeded grass likes some extra water too.

Are your veggies and fruits doing good with all your rain???? You are actually lucky to get so much rain with your sandy soil...lack of rain could be devastating.

Sure is too much moisture in the Nation's Bread Basket....such a disaster for so many people.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Went out to check on the young orchard of various fruit trees....saw they were getting pruned again....





Then there is a mystery....
One row of newly planted native fruit bushes is doing great....the other row the bushes are equally as good.....but....the landscape fabric is just in shreds....it came off the same roll as on the other row......figured some chipmunk or something looking for nesting material....






Then...yesterday evening in broad daylight this scroungy deer walks right through the yard headed over to the newly planted baby grass growing along that row of bushes...






Guess it must be tender and tasty and my ravaged landscape fabric must be made by deer feet.....





Our dogs are not doing their jobs.


----------



## grapeman

You are probably right about the deer. The pictures I take at Willsboro that you ask about the black plastic- the deer fence around the vineyard is the only thing that saved the plastic from the deer hooves. The stones on the plastic not only help hold it down, but also cover holes made by the deer before the fence was put up.


----------



## NorthernWinos

People say hair will keep deer away......I am so 'lucky'....I lost HUGE amounts of hair this morning...If I put it in a bucket it would be a bout 4 quarts....

I am going to put it outside for the birds to make nests...or scare the deer away....It would scare most things away if they saw that.

I still have hair, but at this rate it's 'Hair today-Gone tomorrow'.

So it goes.


----------



## Wade E

NW, are going through treatment again?


----------



## NorthernWinos

Yes...started 2 weeks ago....It really sucks this time....

I try to keep a good attitude....but some days are pretty painful...lots of cramping and reactions to the drugs....Much stronger meds this time....with lots of side effects.....Never know what each day will be like.


----------



## rgecaprock

NW, I admire your attitude and resoucefulness and your giving nature.
Most would be devistated loosing their hair. And I remember my sister, age 39 loosing waist length hair in the shower in one day during her treatments. You are a gift to all.


Ramona


----------



## OilnH2O

NW, hang in there on those treatments, and thanks TOO for reminding us that you are not out of the woods (so to speak



) yet! Prayers and positive thoughts from your forum buddies can help, I'm positive.

About those deer... THAT'S another issue !!


----------



## jobe05

I haven't been here in a while due to my time constraints. My wife and I are starting a business starting July 16th, and have been overwhelmed with the details of having your own business, plus I'm keeping my other job...... the 60 hour a week one..............

But when I think I'm having a bad day or I get over whelmed........... I come here and check to see how your doing NW........... I can read your post and visit with you in your wine gardens for an eternity, even though it's only a couple of minutes. Your more than an inspiration, your exemplary in everything you do and the way you share your life, your thoughts, your possessions. For that, I thank you.

I pray that life will always be good for you, even when some days are worse. I think I speak for all when I say that I wish I could be as inspiring for you as you are for me.

Thank you and God Bless.


----------



## NorthernWinos

rgecaprock said:


> NW, I admire your attitude and resoucefulness and your giving nature.
> Most would be devistated loosing their hair. And I remember my sister, age 39 loosing waist length hair in the shower in one day during her treatments. You are a gift to all.
> 
> 
> Ramona



Ramona....It must have been very hard for your sister....We are all attached to our hair, and someone with waist length hair looses her identity...Hope it grew back thick and lovely as before....


----------



## NorthernWinos

Thanks everyone for all your caring thoughts and wishes...glad my ramblings bring anything good to anyone.

So...this morning I am picking strawberries and see little gobs of hair hanging down around my vision, I pull it and a little wad was released into Nature....being mostly gray it looked like fishing line drifting through the air. I had to have a shower as we needed to go on a shopping trip...so I sat on the steps and brushed...each stroke filled the brush, I slipped it into a bag to tie in the fruit trees to deter the deer...Waste not - Want not....Jim said to quit...I gave him the option of me leaving it outside or having it in his food or shower drain......

So we go shopping and we are sitting at a light....a man is pushing a young woman in a wheelchair...I notice she is wearing shorts and has no legs....only stubs above her knees...The I notice she has two prosthesis arms..... And I am whining????

Life is Good!!!!


----------



## swillologist

Hang in there NW we're going to make it through this. They tell me I have the stuff now. I start treatments next Thursday. They call it Mantle Cell Lymphoma. We're going to whip these things. Things in the garden and orchard have taken a back seat for a little while while we get a grip on this thing. I'll be thinking of you NW next week when I start the treatment. I hope have the same courage that you have shown here. Good luck NW!


----------



## Scott

Both NW &amp; Swillologist keep the strength and many prayers are with you.


Swillologist, I am also in central Iowa let me know if there is something I can help with.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Swill....I am so sorry to hear that you too have to deal with this demon....If you carry the right attitude you will get through this. I am sure your family and friends will be by your side and everyone here will be praying for you.

I am on my 'off-week' of no drugs and feel as crappy as the last 2 weeks....next Tuesday I go back for IV treatment...not looking forward to that as the last infusions were pretty stimulating to say the least. 

The first time when I went into treatment I was recovering from intestinal resection surgery, pretty weak and scared, plus pretty strung out on Diladid and Oxycodone...Then I saw the poor souls sitting in the rooms receiving treatments...kicked myself in the butt and realized I was not that bad off and that I could get through it.

I hope your treatments will go smoothly and painlessly....Lets keep intouch and compare miseries.

My gardens are not receiving the TLC they deserve, *but it really isn't that important*. Jim is keeping the yard mowed and garden weeded and it actually looks pretty nice around here. We pick the strawberries and have been giving most of them away, am going to have a neighbor come and pick the rest.....I have plenty of strawberry juice preserved for wine, as well as many other juices...and now our household wine consumption has dropped in half...So, many things just aren't as important as what we tend to make ourselves believe.

Take it one day at a time...enjoy today.....
*Today is a gift...that's why it is called the present.*


----------



## Joanie

NW, as I've been sitting here printing and cutting out labels for the wine I bottled this morning, I've been thinking a lot about your post. You said your gardens not getting your TLC isn't that important. I disagree. Your incredible gardens bring me joy when you post your amazing photos. I imagine everyone you share them with feels exactly the same. Your gardens help define who you are and what matters to you. Because they matter they are important. Your grapes, and crab apples, and roses, and choke cherries, and all the rest wouldn't be as amazing as they are without you. 

I know you don't have the spunk to tend them right now. Not to worry. They will wait until you're feeling up to it.


----------



## rrawhide

I echo everything that Joan said - she is right on - - -

just remember 'every day is a good day but some are just better than others'.

out prayers are still with you - 

you too, Swill - - - 

hang tough and keep looking up.

later
rrawhide


----------



## swillologist

Thanks everyone. I'm planning on hanging as tough as I can. We plan on licking this thing and getting back to spoiling the grand kids.


----------



## NorthernWinos

OMG....I went out to the Wine Garden to have a look...Most of the grapes look like they had never been trimmed, sprawling vines all across the ground...I thought I had everything looking pretty good 3+ weeks ago, but that was then...and this is now.

I pulled all the suckers from the bases of the vines, that sure improved the over all appearance. My beautiful little clusters of grapes are hidden deep beneath thick rampant foliage....I did pull a few canes from up here too, probably not the thing to do. When do we 'canopy prune'????

The old Frontenac vine hardly has any clusters, perhaps I pruned too severely this spring and the constant weeping weakened the vine...OR...last winter was just too hard on a fairly tender vine for this zone...I lay down the other hardy to -30F* vines...so maybe this variety is not hardy enough to hang on the wires...Will give it another year and at that time maybe the new row will be removed as well.

The newly planted little fruit bushes are growing like crazy. 

The Juneberries are showing fungus and I hope I can salvage some of them if I spray fungicide today...

The Elderberry bushes are huge, but still haven't bloomed, they died to the ground last winter. Do see folks growing them nearby, so will continue to have hope for them, they sure are an attractive plant.

Raspberries are beginning to ripen, so am anxious to start picking and freezing them for the wine effort. 

I gave the strawberries to a neighbor, she comes every few days and picks every single berry...She wants to grow her own now. We have found that we like other wines more than strawberry, tho the Burgundy/Strawberry is great....Found a little less fruit and more grape in the blend more to our liking, so didn't freeze as many berries as other years, sill have quarts of juice left from last year.

So, will take the fruits we want, juice them up and continue making wines...with our consumption less for awhile, the wines can age more and improve....

Life is Good!!!!


----------



## Joanie

NW, I'm confused (it takes so little!) and I have a question...do you _pull_ suckers and canes or do you trim them with a pair of clippers?


----------



## grapeman

NW you can canopy thin any time now. The fruit has probably well set by now and if it is getting too thick, you can thin undesireable shoots and get rid of some of the leaves. The fruit are tolerant of the sun this time of year, but if too many leaves are removed too late they can burn on you.


As a side note, I picked a quart of Black Currants yesterday. They are so thick that I put the bascket underneath a cluster and just roll the black ones to fall in the basket. They clean from the leaves and trash pretty easily since they sink and the leaves float in water. How are yours coming along NW?


Joan you can pull the shoots off when they are young and tender. A bit later you need to clip them off after they start lignifying.


----------



## NorthernWinos

The Wine Garden is coming along....

Juneberries are beginning to ripen, tho there seems to be less fruit than last year...Some of the little plants I set out this spring even have a few berries...







The little bushes of semi-native fruits that got set out last spring are growing great....






The Black Currants are growing and there are only a few berries out there. The little cuttings I grew over winter under lights are alive and putting on new leaves. The Red Currants, Gooseberries and others are growing and perhaps next year will produce more....this year there is only a taste of fruit out there.

The grapes are filling nicely and today I plan on thinning out much of the overgrowth....






I severely pruned back two older very thick woody vines this spring, a semi-hardy Frontenac and a very hardy King of the North...they both weeped from the woody ends and failed to produce much fruit....but the leaves are huge...I am just letting these vines alone this summer and hope they recover and produce next year...






So it goes in the Wine Garden....



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## grapeman

Those all look like they are doing well NW. Love the large leaves. My Buffalo and Alden and Catawba all have leaves like those- makes you want to make some kind of a wrap with them.


I wish you had some of the Titania Black Currants. I have 10 Prince Consorts and had 3 currants on them total. They are two feet high and sickly looking overall. I have 5 Titania(the ones ties to the wires to try to hold upright) and they are about 4 feet tall. They have I estimate 2 or 3 quarts on each bush in their second year. The objectionable smells are all but gone now and they are starting to ripen- got a quart off them yesterday and canget another couple quarts in a day or so. I got them from St. Lawrence Nursery and will probably replace the Consort when I start some more from cuttings. The titania have about 25 shoots per bush already, so I will need to prune some shoots out theis winter and can root some them. If you are feeling up to it when I get some rooted I would love to send you a few. Let me know.


----------



## NorthernWinos

After trimming the grapes they sure look a bit more respectable, now I just have to haul off all those trimmings to the compost pile...will get to that...Job security.

Today we had a slight shower this morning, then I went out and did spray with copper....There doesn't seem to be any signs of disease, we have had plenty of air movement and with the extra foliage gone they should be okay.






I sprayed the Juneberries with the copper too...I think it is a little late for them as the crop looks doomed to cedar-apple rust....at least I think that's what it is....I sprayed better last year and did get a small crop...Now we are getting sprinkles again, so will probably loose my spray job.






So with a spary program like many things...You Snooze-You Loose.

The apples are looking good...won't be a bumper crop, but have lots of juice left from last year....






So, one year you seem to get a bumper crop and stock the larder, the next you get by with the bounty allowed by nature.


*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## grapeman

The grapes are looking better all the time NW! What variety is that one? 


I will comment that you could have left the shoots longer to ripen the fruit better or so they say. I only see a few leaves past the clusters. From what I have heard and read, you should leave about 12-15 past the cluster to ripen them fully. It is early enough that they will push some laterals and ripen them that way, but the problem is that makes the canopy more dense. What is a person to do? Regardless, I'm sure they will ripen fine there anyways. Just letting you know what the"experts say"









The apples look good even if not a bumper crop. Sometimes you get a bigger harvest with fewer apples because they average bigger. Sure you will get a good crop by the looks. 


I don't know about the others.................


Keep it up!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Appleman...these would be Valiant Grapes...

<div ="h1-left2"><h1>Valiant Grape Details</span></h1>




This
red wine producing grape, reportedly cold-hardy to -70 F (approx. -52
C), has lived up to its name in some harsh winter conditions. Valiant
is grown in South Dakota, Minnesota, and other parts of the continental
Midwest. Valiant is also grown in the Canadian prairie provinces, where
reportedly it does not require protection from the elements, wintering
above ground instead of the usual 'hilling-up' required for most
varieties subjected to similar conditions. The vine was developed by
Dr. Ron Peterson at South Dakota State University from a Fredonia x
Wild Montana (Vitis riparia) cross. It is mostly used in blends, but is
also made into jelly, and consumed as a table grape. Ripening about
three weeks prior to Concord, it typically produces grapes with low
acid levels and high sugars</font> </span>

We have been making breakfast juice with this grape for years....then once we started making wine thought we'd try it. I makes a pretty good wine but always drops 'wine-diamonds'.....It even drops wine diamonds in our mason jars of breakfast juices...so it is high in some sort of acid...even tho it claims to be low in acids in the above description...

This variety needs a good spray program, I was plagued with downy mildew and black rot in past years....Then I cleaned up my act, removed the mulch from around those rows, removed all the mummies and work up the soil underneath the vines....it sure made a huge difference....Some years it looks like I really wouldn't need to spray, but try to get it done.

Guess I did roach off too many leaves....Know for sure they will grow more, they are a very aggressive grower....They should ripen okay...last year I did keep checking the Brix and actually forget what they got to, I think it was in the high teens...18* Brix or some where near that. Looks like there will be good yeild on some of the mid aged vines....the youngest vines should produce well next year.


----------



## grapeman

I thought it was probably you Valiant in the picture. They are a nice consisten producer. The years when they stay nice and clean is probably because you do keep up with the spray program. It's when you say that they are nice and clean and stop spraying that you can get into trouble.


How's therapy coming? You seem to be picking up on the work load... don't overdo it. That's whatthe hubbyis for


----------



## NorthernWinos

Beautiful cool morning today so I went out to survey the Wine Garden...upon looking at the younger Valiant Vines I found a few clusters with some sort of *MOLD!!!!! WOULD THIS BE POWDERY MILDEW?????</font>**





</font></font>*
I picked all the clusters I could see that were infected and did another good spraying.

The Raspberries are finally ripening and those I will pick and freeze for the "Wine Effort'...we like any wine with raspberries in it......Not as many berries as last year and wonder if they warrant installing the bird netting...??? Will think that over. 

Before picking I had to remove all the suckers and canes that were growing outside the catch wires....Have 2 huge piles of canes to haul to the compost pile. Job security.

The Sandcherries are filling nicely, should be a good crop of those.

I even had enough energy today to wash a few windows on the sun porch...The early morning sun is very unforgiving with dirty windows... Spring dust storms, birds hitting the windows and leaving dust angels as well as dog kisses on the patio door are all history...I feel so much better to have that chore done.....Life is Good......Except for that mold on the grapes!!!!






</font></font>


----------



## grapeman

From here it looks more like downey mildew. I found some today also at Willsboro in Mars table grapes. I applied ProPhyte which is a type of phosphoric acid- a fertilizer. It is supposed to knock it out. I hope so but within an hour of applying it we had a stream of heavy thunderstorms with in excess of an inch of rain. Not sure it will work. I am following up very soon with a complete spray. You could try some baking soda in water and sprayed on them to the point of drenching. A few tablespoons per gallon is sometimes effective.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Went out to pick the raspberries and have a look at the rest of the little Wine Garden.....

I had left the Juneberries for the birds, complete with fungus...and they have obliged and have pretty much cleaned off the bushes.

The Sandcherries are filling out, not as many as last year, but will be enough for a batch of wine, even some fruit on the little bushes I set out last year...Checked the inventory of juices, enough juice in jars left from last year for a batch of wine as well....






Looked inside the little Consort Black Currant bushes and there were a few clusters of small, hard fruit....










Then I looked inside the Ben Sarek bush and there were some berries in there too...about 3 times the size of the Consort...Big plump berries...[I forgot to taste them]






Now I'm wondering which plants I made cuttings off of....Guess I'll know in a couple years and will replace some with the larger fruiting variety.

I noticed some funky leaves on some of my baby plants....doesn't seem to affect them, just looks strange...






Appleman...can you spare an inch of rain????
We went to picnic this evening and had some sprinkles...everyone just stayed sitting out in it...felt pretty good.

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## grapeman

They all look great NW. I picked Black Currants yesterday and got about 6 pounds more. They have produced about 3 pounds per bush so far. Nice big black ones like the Ben Serek.


I will gladly send you some rain. May you be blessed with one half our rainfall - we don't want it. It is raining steady now- like it was supposed to all day. I feel blessed because it held off. We were expecting 2-5 inches MORE rain through tomorrow!


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## NorthernWinos

Being as we both like any wine with Raspberries in it....we both have been picking the raspberries.....Get about this many everyday...






I love picking raspberries...or any berries...almost a religious experience.

I picked some of the black currants....they are sure hidden inside the plants...safe from the birds....Or...maybe they are just tucked in because the plants are so young.

Clockwise....Red Lake...Ben Sarek....Consort.






Will for sure be making more Ben Sarek cuttings this fall, they are sweet and juicy. Those tiny Red lake red currants sure have a nice crisp flavor and should make a nice wine. I made some cuttings last summer and set them out before freeze up and they are all growing....But wonder if 10 plants will ever produce enough for a batch of wine as the berries are so tiny...?

Been watching the grapes...seems to be a bit more Downy Mildew, but just small areas...*.should I remove the infected berries????

*Now I see these odd pink berries...they are not ripening...*wo**nder if it is a new fungus out there?????*









I am going to spray on Wed. with some baking soda or something else....would have done it today, but we *might* get some rain.


----------



## grapeman

Nice buckets of Raspberries there NW. Those picked every day for a while will give you some delicious wine mixtures. Yummmmmmm.


Interesting show of currants there too. I have a couple bushes of the red ones but they don't do much here in the sand. Maybe I should move them. I have enough black currants now for about a 6 gallon carboy in their second year- and that is off the 5 Titania. They are interesting- not only do they get bushier, but some of the outer branches droop to the ground and curl back up. I have assisted a few of these and put some soil over them where they contact the ground. I expect them to root and then I will just cut them out with the shovel and move over some.


Interesting phenomenon with the pink grapes- I don't have a clue! I would tend to pick off the downey infected berries when they are dry so you don't spread it more. It'd hsrd to keep ahead of disease over here this year. Best of luck to you.


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## Wade E

I think the Pink grapes are just your plants trying to give you some cheer!


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## NorthernWinos

It's so dry here that I can't understand where the mildew came from, must be just from the humidity....plus my lax spray program.

The roses are getting mildew too....so it must be in the air.


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## Waldo

Dang, those rasberries and currants sure look good NW..Wish I had me some currant plants. Maybe i will get some this fall.


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## NorthernWinos

I went out this AM and realized I better get spraying...So I gave the grape clusters a good spraying of Baking Soda and a fungicide mix....

Those cute pink grapes turned into a nasty fungus....












*I wonder...should I remove all the clusters of infected grapes...with the pink and white molds???? Or...see it the sprays tame mildews and fungus?????

*Now with all the soda residue it's hard to tell it from some of the molds. The Beta grapes are usually pretty disease resistant, but I did see a few infected berries. Their clusters are larger and looser. They are a cross between the Wild Montana X Concord.






I see even the lilacs have mold on their leaves....as well as some of the roses...even with our very dry conditions there must be enough humidity to grow molds.

The rows that I had severely trimmed are growing new shoots...makes it hard to spray. That is a wire cage type rabbit trap between the rows...I saw a rabbit there the other day and that night Jim set the trap...he eliminated the culprit yesterday AM.






The Frontenac and King of the North that struggled to come out of dormancy have put on lots of growth...only a few clusters inside that mess....I am going to trim that row up soon...It's gone wild with growth.







The new row of Frontenac are growing and hopefully they will prove to be hardy and productive...only time will tell...and they may all have to be removed and replace with something that is hardier than -30*F.






Sucks being so limited to what we can grow...but am greatfull for the fruits we can get.


*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

Since you have applied a spray on the grapes, I wouldn't rush to get rid of infected clusters. Chances are good the affected berries will dry, shrivel and fall off, leaving the good grapes. Those clusters may be missing a few berries, but they look good and full to begin with. For being so sick most of the summer, you are doing great taking care of them. 


When you pruned heavily, I said they would branch back out. It's a juggling act pruning them to thin. Too early and they bush out and must be pruned again. Too late and you get so much shade it affects production ripening and bud development for next year. Thin them out as you can. I try especially with Frontenac to break the summer laterals out while about a foot or so long. It is much quicker and effective than having to clip each one with the pruning shears.


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## NorthernWinos

Went out to survey the spring plantings of fruiting bushes.....

These photos look a little ragged due to neglect...I just recently sprayed the surrounding weeds....

The Nanking Cherries are growing very well...







Sancherries and Native Elderberries are doing well too...






I had painstakingly laid landscape fabric down the rows of these two plantings...However I did not put any mulch over it and it decomposed in a matter of months....so have recently sprayed the weeds and hopefully will get some mulch around the plants next year.

The Domestic Elderberry plants that I set out last year are growing like crazy....However...they are just now blooming...perhaps when the plants get some age on them they will bloom earlier in the season....









These hybrid plants die to the ground each year...will be interesting to see if the native variety will be hardier. A lady nearby has a yard full of Elderberries...I have never asked if the were named varieties or native.

The raspberries are still producing...came on late... just amazing production...






The newly plated Aronia bushes, also from the county SWCD are all growing...will be interesting to see what the wine will be like...






The Beta grapes have never been so large...They are a very nice grape...Concord/Wild Montana cross...very disease resistant....Just sprayed with Baking Soda...so look a little white washed.






The Valiant grape....Fredonia/Wild Montana are very disease prone, needs a faithful spray program...Since I started spraying the disease doesn't seem to be spreading....hopefully it is in check.






So...there will be some grapes if all goes well.....There will be wine.






*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

You are amazing. Going through chemo and worried about how ragged some border shrubs and wildlife plants look! Most folks would kill to have ANY garden look that messy!(In other words neat)!


Hope the grapes give you a bumper crop.


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## NorthernWinos

I went out and pruned the grapes today...

The two old rows of juice type grapes have some nice clusters and I trimmed some of the old leaves that seem to be drying out....Will have to put the bird netting up on them soon....No color yet....The mildew seems to be in check.

The old woody Frontenac and King of the North vines that weeped so badly after a severe pruning this spring have recovered nicely...Lots of new growth and when I pruned them there even were a few clusters inside all that canopy. They look like grape vines now instead of a jungle....they were out of control...





I pruned the new row of Frontenac...they were new plants set out last summer and just got wires this spring...so was able to start giving them some little 'arms' on the wires.... Some of them really look cute....finally they are starting look like little grape vines.

It sure looks better out there...Kind of late tending to some of these vines...Better late than never..... it's done now and hopefully I didn't mess them up too badly.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Today's forecast was for 80% chance of rain...seems everyone around us got over an inch already...we had a few sprinkles a couple times today....

Now we actually had a little shower....It hasn't rained for so long that it just smells so good out there....Hopefully we will get more out of this system.....

Jim's birthday today.... It would really make his day to get an inch of rain....


----------



## Wade E

Happy B-day Jim and hope you get your wish.


----------



## rgecaprock

Jim,


*Hope you have a wonderful day*. *Starting with a wonderful Campfire Cafe Breakfast and* *Finishing with you and your lady's favorite wine**.* 

H a p p y B i r t h d a y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*Ramona**Edited by: rgecaprock *


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## swillologist

Happy Birthday Jim! 
I hope you enjoy your day.


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## NorthernWinos

During the night the sprinkles turned into drizzle and rain.....It was so great to hear the eves dripping....

We got 1.28" of rain.....What a great gift from the skies.

To the South where the storm just sat for hours they got 7" and are flooding....Too much of a good thing too fast.


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## grapeman

So glad you got a good rain overnight! See Jim got his birthday wish! You are welcome to keep some of ours from the east. Still have plenty of it here.


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## NorthernWinos

I noticed a couple days ago that some of the Sandcherries were ripening....

Even some of the little volunteer bushes that I dug out and planted in the Wine Garden last spring had a few cherries on them...









I noticed also that some of the cherries are missing....



Birds!!!! 

I tasted some off of the young plants and they were soft and ripe.....They pick very easily....just hold the limb over a bucket and fondle them and they drop....






The bigger bushes are ripening unevenly...so will take them as they ripen...

This spring we got rid of the oldest bushes....they say they are short lived. They were 8 or 9 years old and had a lot of dead wood and were ugly, suppose we should have pruned them....The young plants grow so fast and the birds reseed them everywhere, so new plants are available.

I have enough juice from last year for a batch of wine....this 'collecting fruit' thing is getting 'sick'!!!!


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## Wade E

Those look yummy!


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## NorthernWinos

Went out to harvest a few Sandcherries off the larger plants....

They are so loaded that the limbs are just laying on top of each other....Will harvest the top layer first.....






Noticed the one older plant of Aronia had a few ripe berries on it. Looks like those will be another crop that ripens unevenly....






It looks like a slow growing plant...The 12 newly planted bushes are alive and growing, but think there is a long term wait ahead.

Raspberries are finally almost done...I go out and get a few stragglers...they are pretty soft.

Everbearing strawberries are blooming and as I harvest the garlic I grazed on a few ripe ones....

So it goes in the Wine Garden....


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## Waldo

What would you compare the sandcherries to NW to one such as myself who is unlearned about them


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## Wade E

Those look good to. Girl you got it going on!!!!!!!!!!


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## NorthernWinos

They are like a very mild Chokcherry....But...being as you probably never had a Chokecherry....

I can only say....they are mild and fairly sweet, don't taste much cherry flavor...The juice steams dark purple. Most people make jelly with them.

We use to mix them with the Chokecherries in the wine....Will make a batch or two of Sandcherry wine during the next year with the juice.

The garden centers sell a Purple Leaved Sandcherry, I have one, it's a nice purple leaved shrub, but mine has never produced any berries.

We planted them for the birds and we have always eaten some of them too.


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## NorthernWinos

Veriason in the Northland!!!!!

Went out this morning and covered the heaviest cropping vines with bird netting...Much to my surprise the smaller/younger vines are showing more variason that the older vines with a heavier crop...Guess that must be a nature of the vines production.

These are Valiant grapes...</font></font>Fredonia x Wild Montana (Vitis riparia) cross. Small tight clusters...disease prone.












The Beta grapes....</span>a cross of the _vitis labrusca_-based cultivar Concord and a selection of _Vitus rapariahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_riparia_, the wild riverbank grape, called Carver).

These are usually very disease resistant, but I might have a small problem on a few clusters....As well there is a few with sun scald.






I can't tell what's going on with the white grapes...the berries are getting bigger, but can't see any color change.

Picked another 5# of Sandcherries...they ripen as you remove the top heavily loaded branches that shade the branches underneath. I noticed the birds are eating the top berries and the rabbits are starting to clean out the bottom....as well, while I was picking I have noticed the dog inside the bushes...she was eating some too....Guess there are enough to go around....

Out to put some light weight fabric over some tomatoes that are sun scalding and trim up the veggies...pick some produce and enjoy the fruits of our labor.

Jim is out in the wheat field singing his favorite song....
"I feel so fine,
On my combine."
It's going good.


----------



## grapeman

I bet you are happy to see some grapes changing. The young vines do seem to ripen clusters faster than older vines, don't they. They probably have a larger leaf surface to grape cluster ratio than fully grown vines. I need to get some top netting on a few reds that aren't pruned VSP. Those have the nets on the sides already, but I am leaving the larger vines uncovered yet so I can thin leaves again and top them off again before covering. I have a half dozen seedless and a half dozen reds that I just plain need to cover. The rest will wait.


I have heard about Jim way out here. By all reports "He is out-standing in his field" or at least riding the combine! I've even had a few folks use that old line on me a time or two.


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## AlFulchino

"The garden centers sell a Purple Leaved Sandcherry, I have one, it's a nice purple leaved shrub, but mine has never produced any berries."


its strictly an ornamental type...i have one as well...it is one of the most pleasantly fragrant shrubs around.....no fruit to eat is expected ever from this....i wait all year just to smell it...and you get about three weeks of flowers...real small, but enough to take note


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## NorthernWinos

My purple leaf sandcherries bloom with some small yellow flowers...never noticed any fragrance.

Hope we get some rain....looking at those grape photos it looks like some have a little too much baking soda on them...hope they don't burn....maybe it will act like sunscreen and protect them from the intense sun and strong winds we are having.

I have a huge flock of Orioles that have been hanging around the liquid feeders...I caught them out in the sweet corn tonight...so thats what's been tattering the tips of the ears....





Always something taking the fun out of gardening.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Finally, the Raspberries quit producing, so I started trimming out the dead wood on the youngest row....

It really isn't such a chore...just get in there and cut out the dead canes....Keep all the nice canes within the fence wires...

Nice tall growth on this years canes...amazing as we have had such a dry summer.

Read that if you trim the tops the canes will send out side shoots and you will have a bigger crop next year.







I started to kill the row of fall bearing Raspberries....I cut a sample area to the ground and painted the stumps with RoundUp. I notice the suckers out in the asparagus are turning yellow....I am keeping an eye on the asparagus...Hope the co-mingled roots don't harm the asparagus..or the rhubarb which is right next to the row...Time will tell.






The young Frontenac grapes are looking nice...Hope to remove the row of Strawberries from between the grape rows next year...






The Valiant grapes on the old wood are showing Variason</font> now....






The younger vines are ripening fast....will have to pick a few clusters early and probably freeze them till the late ones are ready...

Did burn some of the leaves with the last application of Baking Soda....






Even the Beta grapes are finally showing a slight coloration...






Got ½" of rain last night...Not enough to turn our corn and soybean crops into a 'bin buster' but will help with filling the kernels and beans...





Already planning next years crops and wine fruits....Look at the calender and see that summer is slipping away and another season is upon us.

Take what we can get...Hoping for a late fall....and good harvest to all.

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## OilnH2O

Looks great, NW!

You've had some good days recently, it seems (haven't we all?). We've had a touch of fall with a high today of only 63* and a few showers -- we'll send that cold front your way!


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## Waldo

Awesome NW...


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## Wade E

Looks like some nice clusters NW.


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## jobe05

Very Nice NW, Makes me envious. You have the greenest thumb of anyone I know.

I planted a few Catawba plants last year and got a few from them this year, enough to try a gallon to see what it would taste like.


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## grapeman

It's all looking great as usual NW! How are the older Frontenac looking now NW? Did they ever get some grapes on them? I still can't believe it gets cold enough there to kill the primary buds! That's cold! 


Here's hoping you do get some bin busting grain crops after all the high expenses of the year! I am still in disbelief that sweet corn is selling at $4.50-5.00 a dozen around here! To think when I grew 50 acres of it I sold it for $4.50-5.00 per hundred!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Sweet corn is selling for that here too...from the farmers at street sales.

I saw people buying sweet corn in big stores for .85¢ each ear....I couldn't believe it....we are feeding some corn that got a tad old to the horses....aren't we wasteful??? 

We have started eating our main crop, it is so good...Have to freeze some in a few days....





The old Frontenac vine did come around....It had such heavy wood when I severely pruned it this year it weeped so badly from the ends....Then it grew wonderful lush foliage that I didn't take care in a timely manner.....The same with the old King of the North vine....Now they look presentable and have some clusters on them. I have made new cordons on these vines and hope for some good yields next year....Only time will tell.

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## NorthernWinos

Well...the deed is done!!!! 

For a few years I wanted to remove the row and a half of older raspberry plants, kill off the roots, eventually dig up the roots.....replant with a better variety and plant the half row to Blackberries....

So...today I finished cutting the canes...painted the stubble with RoundUp and hope for the best. I recalled the neighboring asparagus is planted very deeply in trenches...So hope any commingled shallow Raspberry suckers won't kill off the asparagus....The neighboring Rhubarb is pretty established and I did plant a few Horseradish plants this spring in the neighboring row.....probably not the best place for that to be planted and will probably move it next spring.






So...a job done!!!!....Hope the Raspberries will be the only plants that die in this experiment.


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## Wade E

Rhubarb looks good NW. I have to get some as I want to make a wine based on a pie that is specially made around here around the holidays which is called Fruit of the Forest and is the best pie you could ever have. I know it has the rhubarb, apples,blackberry, chery and possibly a few other fruits in it.


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## AlFulchino

"....corn is selling at $4.50-5.00 a dozen around here..."


six dollars here
***********
Nice work NW


----------



## grapeman

NW, Prelude is a new Cornell variety of Raspberries. They are shaped and sized like a thimble and have an outstanding flavor. They are primocane in habit and have a fair summer crop and a much larger fall crop. I am not sure of the hardiness zone, but they might be worth checking out. You guys like to tinker. Have Jim set you up a high tunnel greenhosue cover. It extends the season and lets you get a great autumn crop. I have about 5 quarts of raspberries per plant coming on soon at the high tunnel project down at Willsboro. The taste is unbelievable for such a refined berry!


----------



## grapeman

Al, WOW! You better start growing sweet corn! And to think I used to grow and sell 250,000 ears per year! Maybe I should do it again!


----------



## NorthernWinos

*

Prelude*</font>--Originated 
from a cross of NY817 (Hilton x NY600 (Durham x September) 'Hilton' previously 
known and tested as NY1009. 'Prelude' is a red raspberry developed by 
Cornell University at the New York State Agricultural Experiment Station 
in Geneva, New York. Noted for having a very early summer crop, peaking 
in production well before all other standard varieties. It matures a high 
percentage of its fruit in late June and very early July. Plants are hardy 
and vigorous. Average fruit size and yield are similar to other early 
varieties. The attractive, high quality, firm fruit are easy to harvest, 
making them suitable for shipping and retail marketing. 'Prelude' is the 
earliest maturing summer red raspberry cultivar available for production 
in the East Coast and Great Lakes regions. Canes have sparse but noticeable 
spines and are average height. It is winter hardy in zone 5 and plants 
are vigorous and sucker freely. Fruit are positioned openly with good 
placement and are very easy to harvest. 'Prelude' fruit are round conic 
in shape and are coherent and uniform.

</font>*Looks like a zone 5 introduction....We are pretty limited up here...make do with what we can grow successfully....</font>*</font></font>


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## grapeman

Bummer NW, this is a great hybrid and the summary is incomplete as it develops a second crop later in the season also. Maybe you could try the tunnel and grow it though. You don't need heat, just the cover- IR reflecting to keep the heat in in the fall and winter.


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## NorthernWinos

The heat has been turned on for about a week....as well as strong South winds....Hard for us Northerners to handle temps in 90's....It had been a pretty moderate summer till recently.

The winds have been relentless...30-35 MPH with gusts....never letting up, blowing night and day....drying out everything in it's path.

On the plus side it has been ripening the grapes....

The tight little clusters of the Valiant seem to have turned overnight....






Some of them are near black like it's parent the Fredonia X wild grape....They have come out of the mildew event, the Baking Soda and other sprays did their thing and saved the crop.






Seeds are starting to turn brown, but will be awhile before we even think of picking any.

The longer, larger and looser clusters of the Beta are also starting to show variason, but they always are a longer season grape....Like their parent Concord X wild grape.






Have a hard time telling what the white grapes are doing...they appear to be getting plumper, but no signs of becoming transparent...Will watch the Edelweiss for the first signs of ripening.

So...things are looking up in the 'vineyard'...had wondered if the grapes would ever ripen.....






*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## Wade E

Those look wonderful NW!


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## grapeman

Grapes just look better when they start to ripen and yours are looking scrumpdillyumptous.


I'm still waiting on Catawba, Concord and Niagara to begin their magical transformation. Everything else is well under way! The Canadice and Reliance seedless varieties are totally turned and getting nice, sweet and tasty! It's a good thing the nets are on these or I would be eating them all!


----------



## Waldo

Those are really looking good NW...Looks like we are in for a week of rain from the hurrican. We are already getting winds off of it.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Waldo said:


> Those are really looking good NW...Looks like we are in for a week of rain from the hurrican. We are already getting winds off of it.



Hang onto your hat and be safe.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Happy Days!!!!!

We had a cold front blow through last night....finally the strong South winds shifted to the North and the temps today are 40* cooler....Don't care for it that cool as it seems to be too fall like....but we did change the calender again didn't we???

Our total rains for his summer read like this 
[I just filled out our USDA report for Aug.]

May.....1.69"
June....3.87"
July......2.05"
Aug.....1.87"
Last night.....2.37"

Good thing we have some clay in our soils...it's amazing how good the crops look with such little rain. I did notice yesterday that some trees were wilted from the strong winds and heat....today they should be happy.

It rained all night...what a God sent rain....
Very little thunder, winds went down and just a nice steady rain.

The crops will be happy, the grapes will fill and ripen.....
*I have heard that rains might bring the Brix down...is this correct?????*

Wanted to freeze sweet corn today, but it is pretty muddy out there...will find something else to do.

Life is Good!!!!


----------



## grapeman

Glad you got some rains NW. We are actually going on a couple weeks with very little rain. It is speeding up ripening.


Yes the rain will drop the brix, temporarily. If you have a quart of water and have a cup of sugar in it, you will have a set brix. If you keep the same sugar and add another half quart of water, the brix drops. It's the same principal. You get more juice but a lower brix- same amount of sugar though. As they mature, it comes up more again.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Just tried to Upload a photo of the Sancherries I juiced today using Chrome instead of PhotoBucket....

Let's see if it worked....





Edit:
YEEE-HAWW!!!! Isn't that a treat!!!!*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## Wade E

Finally NW! No ,ore dble work for you. I never had a problem with Firefox other then a little slow but I hated IE. glad you can finally save a step here.


----------



## NorthernWinos

The grapes are really ripening quickly....a good thing as they say the temps might get into the 30's tonight....



That's a shocker!!!!







The young Aronia [Chokeberry] plants grew well this summer..




The older plant had a few berries and they really tend to hang onto the plant well, that will make for good harvesting in a few years...






Apples are ripening...that is those that didn't blow off the trees...






So, we get to harvest a few fruits....Hope the weather cooperates.


----------



## Wade E

Looking good as usual NW except for that 1 apple in the upper left side of the picture. Looks like a bug has hollowed it out and made a home.


----------



## grapeman

(Psst Wade- I think that is the shadow of a leaf!) 


It won't be long and the grapes and apples will be all tucked away for the autumn, and then made into juice, wine and applesauce, etc. You are getting around well taking lots of pictures. Hope you are feeling more energetic and can begin to sleep.


----------



## NorthernWinos

No...Wade is right....except it's birds pecking at them.

I had been feeding Orioles all summer, now they brought the youngin's back. I caught them out tattering the sweet corn, put out my scarecrow and they moved on. Then had seen a flock of them out in Jim's field corn....Not sure what is eating the apples, birds for sure. Something has eaten most of the remaining Sandcherries....Hope they stay out of the grape netting....





Soon the Cedar waxwings will be along to eat the Mountian Ash and whatever else they can get to.

This is usually my week to feel good....I am usually a little low key from not being loaded up on 'roids'...but this week I haven't been feeling that great...can't eat or sleep...lost more weight. I go in on Tuesday so will have to figure this out. The drugs are suppose to attack the blood and starve the tumors...as well as attacking some good stuff a long with it. So...something is going on...Lets hope the Chemo is working.


----------



## Bert

Hope all goes well Northern....Nice pictures...Just love looking at them and dreaming...thanks..


----------



## Wade E

Pssst Richard, I think you are starting to need a thicker pair of glasses!









</span>

*Edited by: wade *


----------



## swillologist

Sorry to hear you're not up to par NW. Good luck Tuesday. It's my turn Thursday.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Good Luck Swill....guess we just got to take our medicine and what ever side effects come with it.


----------



## Wade E

I think you 2 need a hug from all of us here on this forum! This is from all of us!


----------



## OilnH2O

NW and Swill too, a friend with leukemia told me that everytime he threw up, he figured he was getting rid of the bad stuff. And everytime he felt rotten, he knew the chemo was killing the bad stuff and the worse he felt, the more killin' he figured was going on!





Hang in there! WE'RE WITH YOU!!





*Edited by: OilnH2O *


----------



## NorthernWinos

I am so envious of all you guys with your high Brix grapes.....Mine are just staying about the same....But the weather has been cool and got another 1.28" of rain a couple nights ago....more rain tomorrow....Wish these rains came in July.

Suppose to be in the 70's+ next week , so hopes of better ripening for both the grapes and tomatoes.....Need a couple more weeks of good weather ...at least....


----------



## Wade E

Heres to hoping your grapes hang in there to a very ripe age long with you!!!!!!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Had another ¾" of rain over the weekend...and, very cool temperatures....

Late yesterday PM it cleared off and late in the evening they said we could have patchy fog and scattered frost.....



I had a sleepless night thinking about all those grapes and tomatoes unprotected.....It got a little hazy after midnight and only got down to 41*...so we got through without frost okay....

Suppose to have a nice week ahead.....that's if you call 70's+ nice and nights in the 45-50's....At least some sunshine is predicted.

Still hoping to get some ripe grapes...One variety has turned nicely and will possibly yield some fruit.... Other varieties are probably too late for this year....will see what the coming weeks bring....

So it goes.


----------



## Wade E

those are temps I can deal with all year as long as the humidity isnt bad.


----------



## grapeman

Here's hoping you get a few more weeks before all the cold weather so you can get lots of grapes ripe to make lots of juice to make into lots of wine.


It only got down to 75 by morning and kept dropping all day long. It feels much better today than yesterday with 93 degrees. It should be much easier to sleep toight, especially without the 50 mph wind gusts all night.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Had beautiful weather the past few days and maybe another week of it ahead....

Went out and checked on the Wine Garden...

The 'Living Snow Fence' aka row of Nanking Cherries might not catch much snow this year....but they did fairly well considering their location and soil.






The few Elderberries that produced will never be ready....Hopefully with time the plants will become productive. Anxious to see if the Native ones from the County will be earlier and productive.






The Everbearing Strawberries are producing, but covered with slug-slime and boring little beatles...Picked a few for Sunday breakfast, but had to really go through them good....





The Swenson Red grapes are turning red, but far from ripe...Edelweiss are starting to taste good....






The Louise Swenson have a little bit of fruit and getting a little transparent...






Beta Grapes are starting to turn color, but are later....






Valiant Grapes are turning fast...tho there are a few rouge hard green berries on some clusters...






Some of the younger Valiant vines have some ripe and sweet fruit...turning raisin like..the yellow jackets and beatles are finding them....So, think I will have to selective harvest some of them soon, going to dig out the refractometer...






So it goes in the Wine Garden of the far North.


----------



## AlFulchino

beautifuuuuuuuuul!!!!!!!!!


----------



## grapeman

You will have some good ripe ones yet there NW!


----------



## Wade E

I love pics of nice clusters. Hopefully in a few years with the help of you guys and gals I will be posting some of my own.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Picked some of the riper grapes today....Not enough to juice, so I just froze them...







5# 13.8oz.....How do I know such precise measurements????
Got a cool digital scale today at a Garage Sale for $4....






It was a strange sale...out in the middle of the woods...road kept getting narrower ...We thought we could hear Banjo music...[right out of Deliverance]...





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## Wade E

That looks like it will come in handy.


----------



## rgecaprock

*To all of you Vineyard Owners:*


*I know I don't post much to your threads but I admire how beautiful your vines and vineyards are and all of your hard work and the love you have for your hobby. You are so lucky to have the land and the space and the knowledge to create a home vineyard. I don't want you to think I'm not interested in your ventures. I am.......Ramona*


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

Hmmmm...middle of the woods...roads getting more and more narrow...banjo music...and a precise digital scale



, please make sure Jim blows all the seeds and stems out of that scale, wouldnt want anything to happen to you NW!


----------



## NorthernWinos

The lady running the garage sale had more tattoos than I have ever seen on a lady...They were beautifully done...But even both her ears had tattoos...as well as a piriced tongue. Very colorful for this neck of the woods.

They had a greenhouse and use to sell vegetables every summer there....Now it was a moving sale....Jim also suspected a dope scale...now it is a fruit and sugar scale....


----------



## grapeman

It sounds like they made enough money to move somewhere better?/more populated. They were all set up for growing and marketing. Or maybe there were just getting too many helicopter overflies now. Every year now there are a lot of hemp reconnaisance flights in the area I live. I certainly have never grown the stuff, but have stumbled upon a couple growing spots while hiking or hunting. I don't revisit those areas when I find them- not very safe even if carrying a gun.


Enjoy the scale,and does it have a funny smell to it? Glad you got a few grapes picked.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Jim found some plants growing when we first moved here....he sprayed them with RoundUp and they never planted there again.

We knew who did it and the guys is waving 'Hello' again....so No hard feelings....I guess.


----------



## Waldo

JWMINNESOTA said:


> Hmmmm...middle of the woods...roads getting more and more narrow...banjo music...and a precise digital scale
> 
> 
> 
> , please make sure Jim blows all the seeds and stems out of that scale, wouldnt want anything to happen to you NW!




She musta fount my kuzzin Auvergene...i wundered where the hell he run off to.
Did he look anythin liken to this NW ?


----------



## NorthernWinos

The low temperatures are expected to get into the mid 30's by the middle of next week....so I went out and picked a few more Valiant grapes that were on the outside of the rows...

They have turned black and the seeds are brown, the stems seemed to be turning brown, the highest Brix I could find was 19-20*.....Some inside the clusters were as low as 15*Brix...

Hopefully the sun will reach the other clusters and we won't get frost....thinking about how I can cover the rows should it get that cold...

With what I had froze last week I juiced up #26.10oz....got a little over 11 quarts of pure juice.






The clusters are so small and tight and the stems of this variety are so short it makes for tricky cluster snipping...






If the cold weather holds off..... there are many more pounds out there...Here's hoping for another week or two....maybe some of the other varieties will ripen.

The Frontenac are blooming....






*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## moose

Hopefully the weather will hold. Good luck with the rest of the grapes.


----------



## grapeman

Nice looking grapes NW. Grapes will take cold down to about 26 without severe harm. If you get a frost it likely won't hurt them and as soon as itwarms up again, they will continue ripening.


We have grapes blossoming also from persistant summer laterals on a number of varieties.


----------



## Wade E

Can anyone say Icewine?
*Edited by: wade *


----------



## NorthernWinos

Waldo said:


> JWMINNESOTA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm...middle of the woods...roads getting more and more narrow...banjo music...and a precise digital scale
> 
> 
> 
> , please make sure Jim blows all the seeds and stems out of that scale, wouldnt want anything to happen to you NW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She musta fount my kuzzin Auvergene...i wundered where the hell he run off to.
> Did he look anythin liken to this NW ?
Click to expand...


Waldo...us'in's all luks like dat up her too...


----------



## grapeman

ROFLMAO







So did y'aall pass them "store bought chompers" around?


----------



## NorthernWinos

appleman said:


> ROFLMAO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So did y'aall pass them "store bought chompers" around?



NO!!! I gave everyone a pair for Christmas...That was Christmas Eve in our neck of the woods!


----------



## Waldo

Bwahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

Im pretty sure a good time was had by all!


----------



## NorthernWinos

We laughed so hard we all had tears running down our faces....Hard to keep your teeth straight when your laughing....

See...that's what home made wine does to people!!!!


----------



## NorthernWinos

appleman said:


> Nice looking grapes NW. Grapes will take cold down to about 26 without severe harm. If you get a frost it likely won't hurt them and as soon as itwarms up again, they will continue ripening.
> 
> 
> We have grapes blossoming also from persistant summer laterals on a number of varieties.



26*...hummm.....We are expecting patchy frost after 1AM tonight.....It didn't get to 50*F today and the temp is dropping....North wind....






I noticed yesterday that a few more grapes were black and sweet....going out to pick a few more and try to cover the vines with the most fruit...just drape some tarps over them. 

I won't be able to process these grapes till Wed AM...I hope I don't loose the sweetness.....will store them in the cool garage. 

Picked 11 baskets of tomatoes yesterday...been working in the kitchen/canning factory everyday....nearing burn-out. Have only 130 jars left and the shelf space is dwindling in the tomato and apple juice sections. I will buy more jars only if it's for grapes. Will be giving away the rest of the tomatoes and apples when I fill the shelves.

Tomorrow is my 'day-off'...off to the Dr.....ho-hum!!!


----------



## OilnH2O

We're thinking of you!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Today I had to juice up the grapes that we picked...






The white grapes are Louise Swenson and Edelweiss...the purple grapes are more Valiant...They are continuing to ripen a bit uneven...but coming along.

Both were nice and sweet.....I did juice them together because of the meager harvest.....will add them to other varieties if they survive our cold nights.






The grapes remain tucked under their protection from frost....so far we have squeaked by, but tomorrow night they expect 31*....so will uncover the garden on Sat or so....it was a lot of work covering the remaining fruit and veggies...






Had the usual run of the mill insects in the berries... various spiders, 7 Eurasian lady beetles...[stinky things



] and one of those beetles that are shaped like a shield...*WHAT ARE THOSE????*





So it goes in the WINE GARDEN.





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## grapeman

The common name is aptly enough- Stink Bug!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stink_bug


----------



## Waldo

How long does it take to steam/juice a batch of grapes nw?


----------



## NorthernWinos

appleman said:


> The common name is aptly enough- Stink Bug!
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stink_bug



That's them....Never knew what they were called.

Never noticed the smell tho. They were usually on the raspberries, especially in the fall, now with no fall raspberries they are on the grapes.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Waldo said:


> How long does it take to steam/juice a batch of grapes nw?



They could be done in an hour...but I am so tight I run them through about 1 ¼ hours....then dump the pulp into a pan...Do another batch and then put the pulp together for another hour or so...you do get more juice, maybe another quart.....Then I let it drip over night and might get another cup or two...I want it all.....


----------



## NorthernWinos

A beautiful day up on the prairie today...Clear, sunny and breezy....Finally no frost threats in the future....so, a great day to uncover the poor garden that has been tucked under wraps for 5 days....

Some of the Valiant [Fredonia X Wild] grapes were ready, so picked 3 large bowls of them, still a few hanging out there...seems the ones hiding behind the thick clusters are much slower ripening...So, they will hang as long as possible.

The Beta [Concord X Wild] are just awesome in size this year....they are finally ripening now....will make some breakfast juice with them...maybe try some wine...?









The King of the North are ripening fast and very sweet...wish there were more....but after severely pruning a neglected vine was just glad that it survived and produced a few grapes...Last year got enough off of the sprawling vine for a nice batch of wine...A very rampant grower.






I must say my Elderberry enterprise is a bit of a wash....there are a few clusters this year...But...I have to ask....are the berries always this small????










I have been planting a few plants each year and hope in the future to get a crop...or enough for a taste of wine.

Meanwhile...I am planning my 'winter garden'....I love to grow things under lights through the winter...So, took some cuttings of the Native elderberry we got from the Soil and Water Conservation Service in hopes that is the variety that might produce in this zone....as well took a few cuttings of the Ben Sarek Black Currant...as it seemed to have the biggest berries in the Wine Garden this summer....more plants will be nice.






So...the Wine Garden is winding down for his season....and plans for next year are in the works....








*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## Waldo

Those look pretty typical for elderberries NW...They do not get very big at all


----------



## grapeman

You get quantity with numbers NW. I have filled a 5 gallon bucket before in minutes. The hard part is getting all the little berries off the stems.


----------



## Wade E

Or getting all the green goo of the primary bucket from what Im told!


----------



## JWMINNESOTA

Saw a bunch of those when out picking grapes a week or so ago,very ripe, almost too late,picked a couple grocery bads full, figured enough to try a small batch, birds had really thinned them out somewhat...so....let one of the guys I was with take all, figure one small batch better than trying to split them up where not enough. Next year, a little earlier maybe there will be enough for us both. Wonder could you steam them on the stems, that would cut the work way down if no adverse effect on the juice.


----------



## jobe05

wade said:


> Or getting all the green goo of the primary bucket from what Im told!



I am making my first batches and when I racked it from the primaries to glass....... I'm looking at these 2 plastic buckets with a green ring that just won't budge.............

After reading it a few times on this forum, I got the spray on olive oil out and gave it a try........... Wiped right off. The olive oil came right off (what little there was) with hot soapy water.


----------



## jobe05

appleman said:


> The hard part is getting all the little berries off the stems.



Just pluck the berries off the stems quickly, don't worry about how many stems you leave on the fruit, then put about 3 pounds in a zip lock bag, DO NOT WASH THEM YET!

Once frozen, take the bags and roll them around in your hands. This will break off most of the stems from the fruit. I made up a rough board that was posted on here by someone (Maybe CrakedCork) that I roll the fruit down, leaving the small stems behind. Work real fast so that they don't thaw, and only do 1 bag at a time. When done, wash (while frozen), re-bag and freeze.


----------



## NorthernWinos

Guess I don't have enough Elderberries to worry about making anything with them this year....They are kind of pretty with the purple stems.

I heard that if you steam juice the Elderberries you don't get the green-goo...that is something that comes with using them raw.

Hopefully next year I might get enough to add to something else.

I cleaned and juiced 21 more pounds of Valiant grapes today....All together there has been 71# of them and juiced into 30 quarts of juice for the wine-effort. There are a few more hanging out there, but don't think they will ripen.

Picked some of the Beta gapes today Looked at the calender and the forecast is for more than 1 inch of heavy rain over the next few days....so, just picked the ripest ones for today.....Seems the young plants are much riper. The 9 year old vine has a nice bunch of fruit on it, but they just aren't quite ready....





Also picked the grapes off the King of the North vine....didn't think there was many out there, but got 10# 6oz...so that wasn't bad...big clusters add up.

So...the season is winding down here....Suppose to get into the 30's again by the weekend...So, will clean out what I can out there and cover a few veggies...again.

Think this years gardening is about done...
I'm ready to throw in the trowel and call it a year.....


----------



## jobe05

Northern Winos said:


> I heard that if you steam juice the Elderberries you don't get the green-goo...that is something that comes with using them raw.



I cooked mine for 20 minutes then let cool when I made mine........... Still got the goooooooooo



Northern Winos said:


> I'm ready to throw in the trowel and call it a year.....



Say it aint so.........


----------



## Wade E

NW, you do more in 1 year then most do in a lifetime!!!!!


----------



## NorthernWinos

So...the seasons are changing up here on the High Plains... Got a touch of frost, but it didn't really hurt anything....Another weekend of rain predicted and then the overnight temps in the high 20's by next week....



Picked and covered the remaining garden veggies...

I picked the rest of the grapes....some on the single vines had a few grapes on...Got 4 quarts of juice off the Swenson Red vine, had 4 quarts of Swenson Red juice left from last year....Got 5 quarts off the Edelweiss and Louise Swenson .... will do a 3 gallon batch of 'Trinity' wine soon.

Picked the Black Beta grapes...they were really nice off of the young vines....Then there was the 'old timer'....lots of grapes, but not fully ripe....I did pick them and juiced them...will use it in some other wine along the way instead of adding water.

Much to my surprise on my way to pick some apples I found a few Wild Plums had set on the 3 trees we have in our wild Life Area....I got 16# of cleaned fruit and am juicing it up now....Each tree had a different size and colored fruit...






We have never made a successful or desirable wine from these Wild Plums, but, I had never let them get this ripe...these are very sweet and juicy, before when picked early they were tart and astringent. So, now I have been out in the 'Dink-Around' [Gator] scouring the neighborhood for any remaining fruit hanging on the trees....no luck!

So...I see some 'Jug-Wines' in the future.....As soon as the 'Cannery' clears out of the kitchen...it's Winemaking Time....


----------



## Waldo

Thiose look really good NW and hopefully will make you some great wine.


----------



## NorthernWinos

About half of them were on the ground...It's been too chilly for Yellow Jackets and bees...so felt okay with picking them off the ground...Some of the others just fell into my hand...the ones I couldn't reach got shook off the tree....

I am juicing them now and they sure have a pretty colored juice....but they don't smell that great.

Now I have to find a creative recipe....Any suggestions????


----------



## Waldo

My recipe would be:
3-4 lbs Plums per gallon
2 lbs. light honey
1/2 tsp. tannin
1 tsp Pectic Enzyme
1 tsp Yeast Nutrient
1/2 tsp Yeast Energizer
1/4lb. Golden raisins
Montrachet Yeast


----------



## Wade E

That is very close to the recipe I used. This in my opinion is a wine better left a little sweet so I used Cotes Des Blanc yeast and started my abv high and let it finish off sweet. At 13% abv its a little high for a fruit wine but with the natural sweetness left in there it works well and will probably start doing this a little more often as long as the results come out the same. I know this is not a sure fore way to do it but I now did 2 wines this way and you get a better flavor this way. Someday i will get the equipment to sterile filter to stop the fermentation when I want!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Guess we are not into sweeter wines....

Honey and raisins sound interesting.

Wild Plum has been so tricky so far....We are using it for cooking wine...

But it was some of our first wines we made.
*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## NorthernWinos

Took the 'Dink-Around' [Gator/chore tractor] to pick the last apple tree....Poor little tree....Have picked many buckets off of it already and got this bounty this morning....No wonder it only produces every other year....It is a Harlson Red tree...a Bi-annual producer.







It's poor little limbs were touching the ground...it will breathe a sigh of relief tonight. 

More juice to be made....More wines to enjoy!!!!





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## jobe05

Rather impressive harvest NW. Did those come from that little tree that you posted picture of last year????? How old is that tree?

They also look very bug free and spot free, do you spray them? Around here the apples get all spotted unless they are sprayed with something.


----------



## NorthernWinos

This tree was planted in 1999 when we moved here...So, it has been around. It is a smaller tree and produces every other year, the nature of the variety, but really gives a good crop....it is a very hardy tree....and very disease free. 

The trees we planted at that time all did suffer from sun scald and were all very damaged with splits in the main trunk and branches....I did a pretty odd thing when I saw that one spring....I thought the sap would ooze and bugs would get in the splits and kill the tree....I took a big jar of a Vaseline type product that we had left over from livestock/cattle days and gobbed it on the woulds....It is still there many years later...it did seal the wounds and the poor little trees all survived. So, if anyone ever has sun scald splits in your apple/fruit tree trunks...Give it a try.

I have never sprayed our apple trees. I did find a few worms in one variety and another variety had some small scabby patches....

I think we have been living on borrowed time and that next year I will maybe spray in early spring....also, might hang some sticky red balls to catch what ever makes little dents in some of the apples,then inside it looks like maybe a worm had been there....Geez....Now I forget which tree that was....





*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## NorthernWinos

Beautiful weather, warm, sunny and fairly calm....

Been outside looking for last minute chores to be done....

Figured I should paint the young fruit trees....We seem to always have a problem of Sun Scald and splitting bark in about March....

The warm sun heats the bark and gets the sap running, then the cold nights freezes the trunks and branches and they split.

Painting with white paint is suppose to redirect the heat....Have had success in the past.


----------



## OilnH2O

When I lived as a kid in Illinois, a lot of the trees lining the streets and in the parks were painted white, as were orchard trees. I always figured it was a way to sell white-wash and keep kids out of trouble!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Well, with this beautiful weather I guess I haven't really "Thrown in the Trowel" for the year....At least not thrown in the shovel...

I had sprayed some old rows of Raspberries this fall with RoundUp to kill and eventually replace them. The RoundUp did a good job and Jim had dug some of them a few weeks ago, it was pretty muddy then and they weren't coming out real easily. I was going to finish them today and he did it for me...He said they had really rotted the past few weeks and came out easily.

I dug a trench and will fill it with compost maybe tomorrow....weather seems to be holding....Will plant the long row with summer bearing Raspberries and the short row will be Blackberry/Raspberry type plants....






The Garlic is tucked in for the winter...






A few fruits are hanging onto the trees and vines...

Bittersweet.....some people make wine out of these...Nothing eats them....






Ornamental Flowering Crabapples.....Some people are known to make wine of these as well....The Robins eat them in the spring when they have rotted and fermented...






The few Aronia [Chokeberries] remain on the plant....they really aren't bad tasting and anxious to have enough to make wine....Don't know why nothing has eaten them...






Life remains Good on the High Plains....



.....
But a change in weather is about to come....Dang!!!


*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## Wade E

Are those berries in the 1st picture known as wine berries. We have some around here that look just like them and my neighbor who is a horticulturist said they are wine berries.


----------



## gaudet

Northern,

I don't know where you get your energy from. But you need to let us know your secret. I want your fountain of youth please................


----------



## NorthernWinos

Wade....Bittersweet grow on a vine and are usually high up in the tops of other trees....






Gaudet....Fountain of Youth passed me buy...I haven't done anything all summer....seems I spent many days laying on the sofa....Just happy to feel good and have the will to do a few last minute chores outside....

Motivated by 60% chance of rain by Tuesday night and snow by Thursday...


----------



## gaudet

So you are making up for lost time. I know about what you have been through. A friend of mine in TN has been in the battle as well. Shes one hell of a fighter. Without knowing you, I really think that you are of the same spirit that she is.


----------



## Wade E

Ahhh, didnt see the vines there but we have a small tree with fruit that look exactly the same. I know nothing about fruit trees so dont eat any, safer that way.


----------



## NorthernWinos

The American Bittersweet we have is growing all over our woods....It climbs on other trees and will sometimes girdle the tree with the vine and kill the tree....

The berries are used in fall decorations...

I see on this page they say the berries are toxic....




Won't be making any wine of of that....

http://www.djroger.com/bittersweet.htm

*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## NorthernWinos

It was 15°F this morning....Calm, hasn't warmed up much, but the sun if finally out after a few cold and gloomy days...

A good day to do some transplanting.....Did the first Elderberry cuttings..they had roots coming out the bottom of their 'communal' pots.






At the rate they grow under the lights they will outgrow these little pots by Christmas....I am going to have some big plants by spring....





The later Elderberry and Black Currant cuttings are coming along too....






*Edited by: Northern Winos *


----------



## NorthernWinos

While you Southerners are thinking about planting your Vineyards up here on the frozen prairies the weather has been downright nasty...It's either way below 0°F or snowing...One of those.."Old Fashioned Winters"

Seemed a good day to order this years garden seeds, much to my surprise the phone lines were busy at Stokes...usually get right through during the first week of the New Year....Everything was in stock and will be shipped within a few days.

I have been watching the Native Elderberry and Black Currant cuttings grow and the pots have been drying out quickly, so knew it was time to cut them back and re-pot into larger 'homes'..

The plants had taken on the shape of the florescent light fixture reflector....They were not happy...but alive.






The roots needed loosening and the tops looked better after a good 'hair cut'.....






They all have grown far faster than I had thought they would. I did take cuttings from the trimmings of the Black Currants....The Elderberries trimmings could have been rooted, but have limited light space.

So, my babies are alive and well and will continue to grow and look forward to a new home outdoors....Someday!!!


----------



## grapeman

I always love seeing your little Garden of Eden there in the frozen north. Those sure have some nicely developed roots. Great job.


----------



## NorthernWinos

All I really want are good roots...the tops are optional until they go outdoors.

We are in Gully Township...Eden Township is across the road.....


----------



## grapeman

Northern Winos said:


> All I really want are good roots...the tops are optional until they go outdoors.
> 
> We are in Gully Township...Eden Township is across the road.....






























We all knew you lived in or near The Garden of Eden!


Nope, don't worry about the tops now- the roots are where they are at!


----------



## NorthernWinos

Been scanning all the Nursery Catalogs and sent my order off to St. Lawrence Nursery a couple weeks ago....
Ordered:.... 
Pequot Black Raspberry...originated from the town where we use to live. Ordered 12 plants and will go down to the old neighborhood and dig some wild plants this spring. Hope under cultivation the will produce well....Crops were unreliable when they grew out in our old pasture....too many trees. Hope to get enough plants to fill the row where the fall bearing Raspberries use to grow.

Juneberries: Pembina and Martin... [Saskatoons] Want to compare them to the Native Juneberries we got from the County SWCS as well as we have a few plants that came from Nurseries with No Name.

Black Currants....Titania...want to grow big plants like Appleman.

So...Here is a question for Appleman....





I had noticed you grew your Titania Black Currants on a trellis system. Is this necessary???




We do have a short row in the garden that has wires left from where summer Raspberries grew. I could easily plant them there and make use of those posts and wires.

This is a tough time of the year....all we can do is dream....and...plan....and order...usually more than we need.


----------



## grapeman

Northern Winos said:


> Black Currants....Titania...want to grow big plants like Appleman.
> 
> So...Here is a question for Appleman....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had noticed you grew your Titania Black Currants on a trellis system. Is this necessary???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We do have a short row in the garden that has wires left from where summer Raspberries grew. I could easily plant them there and make use of those posts and wires.




No I don't think it is necessary. I just have them planted at the end of a row of grapes and the trellis wires extend to the end. The bushes do grow to about 5 feet at maturity, so I figure it will help support them. How many Titania did you order?


----------



## NorthernWinos

I just ordered two...Had to fill the shipping quota.....Figured I could make more plants from cuttings, since they root so easily....Don't know if they are protected or not. 

My row is about 10 feet long, maybe more....hard to remember...haven't been out there for months now...I do know how drab these walls are tho.
They say to space them quite far apart. How far apart are yours planted?


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## grapeman

They are 4 or 5 feet apart, I don't remember for sure. These root even easier than others. In their second year, I let a few of the small canes bend down and touch the soil and then I threw some soil over them. I will dig them up this spring and probably plant between the consort. When they get bigger I will probably yank the consort out unless they start doing a whole lot better.


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## NorthernWinos

We have Consort and Ben Sarek...Was also thinking about replacing the Consort with Ben Sarek....Made cuttings of both last year and didn't mark them...Didn't know there was such a difference in the plants till they fruited...I won't be able to tell which plants are what till they fruit....then mark them for giveaway or throw away.

Now, if only they could breed a really large fruited Red Currant.


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## dragonmaster42

Have y'all tried the white currants?


I just ordered a couple black (Ben Sarek), red (Jhonkheer Van Tets ) and white (Blanka)to try out in the garden this year. Never have grown them before, but they sounded interesting.


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## NorthernWinos

dragon....I just had to look up those Red Currants....They look really interesting. Will be anxious to hear how big of fruit you get off of them.

The Ben Sarek Black Currant are quite impressive, but the Titania that Appleman had looked even better.

Have not seen the white ones except in catalogs and will be watching for your reviews.

Isn't this fun....Ordering new plants....Trying to wait patiently for them to arrive...Planting and nurturing them....Then...the harvest and wine to enjoy.

It's all Good!!!!


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## gaudet

Yeah just waiting for my elderberries to come in another month.................


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## dragonmaster42

I'll be sure and report on them. 


All the nursery and seed catalogs are pure temptation this time of year. I always want to get more than I really need or have room for.


I have a couple fairly clear butsemi-shady area's to garden (most of the property is on a steep hill covered in trees). When I got the place a few years ago,the whole placewas totally overgrown so I'm slowly reclaiming it. I got a chainsaw last fall, so I'm ready tofix some of the shade problems!!


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## NorthernWinos

Much to our surprise this morning the mail lady arrived with our shipment from St. Lawrence Nursery...usually the stuff arrives the 3rd week in April...Being as we have slushy snow on the ground...this is a very early surprise.

So, what to do??? 
I went with Jim [shovel in his hand] out to the snow covered garden area....The snow loved the heavily straw mulched Wine Garden....I took him to the old Garlic row that is resting and is now the home of many rose and flowering shrubs that I bought last fall during nursery close-outs....
He removed the few inches of wet sticky snow, pulled away the straw, and the ground was soft crystals of rich soil...He dug a trench and buried the new plants roots.....
12 Pequot Black Raspberries....
Martin and Pembina Service Berry [June Berry]
Titania Black Currant [huge plants]...do they survive and produce if the tops get frozen in harsh winters???

Meanwhile...under the lights...A sad story...
I lost a few of my Currant and Native Elderberry cuttings while we were in Mexico....Most of them are making new leaves tho, so all is not lost...Only a couple seem to have not made it. I had started watering them just once a week and they were fine....guess10 days was a true test...They are 'hardened off' and I am giving them a good chance to recover.

I finally started my pepper seeds yesterday, a few weeks late, but I think Jim will be doing most of the gardening again this year...will start the tomatoes and kole crops next...and, maybe a few annual flowers....

So, from the frozen North...Spring is still a promise....This unusually cold weather is good for all the flood victims, so it is a blessing for some.

Life goes on.


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## pelican

You are putting me to shame, NW. 

My mini greenhouse is packed away in the shed, and there's not a bit of free space in the house to put it up even if I could dig it out of the snow. (all the free space is taken up by carboys and 4 liter jugs fermenting away though!) I think I'll be hunting up deals at the nursery rather than starting from seed - goodness knows I have plenty of seeds, just no way to start them off.

Sorry to hear about your losses. Doubt you would trade Mexico for transplants though



Hope the Pequot black raspberries take hold in their new beds!


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## NorthernWinos

Went out today and pruned 2 rows of grapes...

Uncovered the row of tender vines that grow on panels....stood up the young pliable vines and let the heavy vines lay for a few days to thaw out... or, at least acclimatize.

No signs of bud swell...actually most of what I pruned off was dry and dead....It was a pretty brutal winter in this area.

The Black Currents are all budded out nicely as well as the Juneberries...didn't look at much else.

Meanwhile...under the lights...All of the Elderberry and Black Current cuttings that had suffered a 'dry-spell' while we were in Mexico have come back to life...some with growth out of the top and some from the soil.

My sweetheart is trimming the flowers for me...





Plenty of mud outdoors... 
Spring is making an appearance...


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## Waldo

Pstttttttttttt NW...You forgot to post the pictures...I know, im getting older too so I forgive ya this time...dont cry now !! come here and let me give you a



Just don't let it happen again..OK


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## grapeman

I don't know how you find the energy to keep going with all you are going through. I am in total AWE!


Not good about the grapes. Hopefully they aren't as bad as they look for you. The ones on the ground should be fine though.


I also noticed swelling buds and green from the Black Currants.


I don't even mind not having pictues since you describe things so well.


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## dragonmaster42

Fruit trees/plants that I put out a few weeks ago are all leafing out nicely down here.


black currants(3):






red currants (3):






3 white currants that looked about like the black currant plants


3sweet cherry and 3 tart cherry trees:












some red raspberries:






and 4 of the 6 small chokecherry trees have leafed out. No pics of them.


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## NorthernWinos

Dragonmaster....You have a real nice selection of wine plants going....Hope you keep Posting photos and name your Wine Garden so we can all follow your progress as well as follow all your Q &amp; A's [if any].

All these fruit photos got me back outside this past week...doing a bit for the 'wine cause'.

Jim spent a few hours with the fruit trees one PM....He unwrapped the protective wire from around the young fruit trees...many suckers were growing inside the wire cages ....and, we hope the trees are now large enough to ward off any rodent/rabbit damage. Some have recovered from the heavy deer damage of their youth....other remain deformed, but coming around.

The older orchard [average 10 years] got pruned heavily by deer this past winter....didn't notice till we got up close and personal with the trees....Damn Deer!!!!





Jim had a new saw and I suggested he do a heavy pruning of the huge bottom branches....He didn't hesitate to take them off...usually I am hugging the trees and not allowing much removed. Being as he will likely be doing the lawn mowing again this summer, cutting those large/low branches out will make that task more enjoyable....We always get too many apples anyway and have lots of juice around....So...those trees do look so much better....they look taller and bigger with those bottom branches gone.

Jim spent a few hours cleaning out the roses, sweeping up the leaves and I fertilized the roses....so, that bed looks so much better.....Lots of die-back, so just had him take most of them down to the ground...easier that way.

Today we set out our plants that got delivered from St. Lawrence Nursery a couple weeks ago....all got placed in their permanent spots, except one where the soil was frozen.

Mostly I ride the Gator, give instructions and enjoy the sun....I love my job!!!!

Will try to get some photos one of these days....


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## grapeman

Thanks for the update NW. It sounds like you two are right on top of things.


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## NorthernWinos

Some signs of life in the Wine Garden....

Black Currants leafing out...






Apple trees...Pruned hard...By man and beast...






Time will tell what produces....


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## OilnH2O

And... LOOK -- NO snow! And green-up is starting!


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## grapeman

You wait and see- you will have bountiful crops to put up this year and Jim gets to do most of the work! Seriously though, I hope you get feeling well enough to help him out with tending the crops and steaming the juice.


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## grapeman

I would like everyone to remember Northern Winos for all she contributed here on the forum in good times and bad. I will sorely miss you Lorraine. You were an inspiration to us all.,
Everyone please go back to page one of here Wine Garden posts and follow it through. She was an amazing woman. Here is a quick link back to it.
http://www.finevinewines.com//Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3481&amp;PN=1


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## Bert

We will miss you Northern....So full of the love for life....Thank You for all you shared with us.....


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## bilbo-in-maine

Rich,
I think NW's thread should be pinned here at the top as a commemorative to her, an extraordinary person who shared so much with this forum. She will be missed for sure.
Bill


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## grapeman

Great idea Bill. I made it a sticky topic for now and will see if we can pin it later.


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## farmer

I would like to suggest, everyone to plant something in your yard that you could make wine from and think of NW every time you raise a glass of that wine.


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## OilnH2O

You know, I've been busy with my son going off to college at the end of June, then a trip for work until this weekend, and then Independence Day, and have just gotten around to reviewing things. This news is a tough one - but as all have said what an inspiration NW was for growing things "on the margin" and teaching what she knew. 

Here's to you, NW


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## nursejohn

My thoughts and prayers are with her family at this time.


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## bilbo-in-maine

I suddenly think of Lorraine at certain occasions, usually when I'm spending quality time out in the gardens and vineyard. Today was no exception as I was struggling my way through our raspberries picking off the latest crop that ripened over the last week. I thought of her right away, remembering the love she had for her gardens, always sharing the progression of the various crops and offering her special philosophical outlook on the natural world. Here's to you Lorraine. Harvest time was when you were in your prime. I raise a glass to you, and remember.


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## Wade E

Ill drink to that any day! She was the life of this site!


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## pelican

I think of Lorraine nearly every day - I miss her very much, as she was a personal friend of mine and who inspired me to winemaking (we had picked about 30 lbs of chokecherries for her and she said she had 300 lbs herself and didn't need ours - dear husband said "I guess we have to make our own wine then with these"). Her garden had plants that originally came from my husband's garden - our garden had plants that came from hers. Her spirit lives on in my garden I like to think and she's with me at every step of my winemaking. I just can't get her personal feedback on my results anymore






And for anyone wondering how her husband Jim is getting on, I can report happily he's doing well. He isn't likely to be on the wineboard as he expressed a lack of patience with all things computers (I was helping him with a bit of computer trouble at the time! LOL), but I told him of all the love and well wishes here for him &amp; Lorraine here.


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## jobe05

Any Updates on Jim?? I often think of the ice fishing photo's and wonder if Jim is out on the lake right now....


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## pelican

Hi Jobe, 

Jim's doing fine... left the ice house about a week ago... and headed down to Mexico like the two of them did last March. Lorraine's thread about their mexico trip is here:

http://forum.finevinewines.com//forum_posts.asp?TID=7647&amp;KW=mexico

The photos are still up at Photobucket link she posted from their trip together.


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## grapeman

Be sure to update us on your progress with the wine also pelican. We haven't heard much out of you lately!


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## IVAN Z

Nice setup love the garden… there is something about a garden that creates better people maybe it’s having your hands in the dirt or the sweat of labor. I just got true leaves on my tomato plants and can’t wait to plant them.


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## pelican

Hi Appleman,

There hasn't been a lot of activity in the Pelican's winery for the winter, other than reducing the stock of bottled wines. 

To that end I did take both kit -2008 WE VR Vieux Chateau du Roi - and a 2009 Chokecherry to a blind tasting party with friends recently. Funnily enough, I 'guessed' wrong on which was which -- knew which numbered bags had my wine in them but couldn't tell one from the other myself. They were the 10th and 11th wines I tasted though, so... maybe my palate was 'confused'. 

Both were well received, although the VCR had next to no aroma at all, 
but the Chokecherry had opened up far more than I had noticed the last 
bottle I had on my own. Very fruity (which surprised me, actually), and
despite being young it had a finesse that I was very proud of indeed. Each was consistently rated better than the least liked commercial reds by everyone there, and for a couple people one or the other of my wine was the favorite out of all the red wines tasted. 

Work has been on over-drive for me since end of October, inspiring some 
of that inventory reduction! but inhibiting any new activity. Some changes at work are taking some of the burden off my work load and spreading it around a bit now and since Spring is here, I'm hoping I can jump back in on the winery activities soon.


Mrs Pelican


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## CajunCuveeQueen

Your layout and tour are wonderful. Is that hay you are using for mulch? I take it you are happy with it?


I'm researching layouts, trellises for gardening, fruit trees and muscadine vines on 3 acres in N Florida. We're somewhat limited on cluster grapes but may set aside room to try out vines in a manner similar to yours. Your photos are helpful.


thanks for sharing


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