# ML Bacteria - How are they doing



## PCharles (Oct 4, 2011)

Hey friends,

This is my first go around with wine from grapes. I've included several pics of my fall projects including my freshly pressed Cab Sauv. 

I'm concerned I may have over exposed my ML bacteria to more air then I should have. I'm wondering if I should re-inoculate the wine. 

Here is what I did - I purchased two vials of White Labs MF bacteria. Instuctions were on the label and very incomplete. I checked White Labs web page where they instructed me to add the bacteria when the brix level was 5. I took this to mean before pressing (perhaps a bone headed interpretation). Anyway, I added it before pressing. Since then, the SG dropped to 1.000. I've now siphoned the free juice into secondary, and bucketed the skins into my press (I used the colander method which worked fine with my smaller volume). On day two, I siphoned off the wine from the gross lees. 

I have a copy of the MoreWine procedure for MLF. I realize they instuct to add the ML bacteria after pressing and, if I'm not mistaking, after removing the gross lees. I recognize what I've done diverges from the suggested procedure. 

The wine I have looks great... nice and dark. I have it under air lock. 

Should I leave it alone or re-inoculate with ML Bacteria. 

Next year I plan to use dry ML bacteria and I will not be adding it until after press and removal of gross lees. 

Regarding the pics, one shows the red wine with gross lees and the second shows the wine after gross lees was removed. You can see I moved from one 6 gallon and one 3 gallon carboys to one 6 gallon and 2 one gallon, and one .75 gallon carboys.

Thanks for your feedback,
Paul


----------



## PCharles (Oct 4, 2011)

*I called White Labs*

I called White Labs this morning and received a very cordial reponse. The initial feedback was that the bacteria are likely fine. I expect to hear back from them later with a more definative response. 

Here is what the White Labs Procedure states.

General Instructions 

Wait for fermentation to reach a gravity of approximately 5 Brix, towards the end of fermentation. Warm culture to room temperature and inoculate must. 

Here is a link to those instuctions.
http://www.whitelabs.com/wine/malolactic.html


----------



## ibglowin (Oct 4, 2011)

I would tend to agree in that as long as things are in the right ballpark pH wise, alcohol wise, SO2 wise, temp wise, let them ride it out. You will need to either get a ML test kit of sorts if you don't have one or send a sample in or just use your taste buds or some combination there.


----------



## naperwineguy (Oct 4, 2011)

I 2nd the notion that all is probably ok - but without some form of testing, you may never know. As for the kits - I think they are crap IMHO - and use chromography testing for my ML - but the best way to absolutely know is through lab testing -which for small home winemakers, usually is overkill. Unfortunately without having done some level of testing prior to the start - you may not be able to tell if your MLF is still working - however setting a baseline sooner rather than later is the best bet you have to know if you still have Malic acid present or not.


----------



## PCharles (Oct 4, 2011)

*Testing To Follow*

Yes Mike, I just ordered a pH meter from Hanna along with calibration and cleaning solutions. They indicated the 4.1 calibrator could sub as storage solution. In early November I plan to send a sample to one of our local state universities that has a vitaculture program for a good overall review (pH, TA, ML eval, sulphites). 

I'd like to do my own chromatography, but I figure the kit and additional supplies would run close to $100. Free testing is pretty hard to compete with.

Hey, I've heard it said here by some members that there is no need to add additional sulphites/sorbate is you don't plan to back sweeten. I've also read that is very important to sulphite a red wine like Cab Sauv. Is there something particular about a red grape wine that makes it more vulnerable?

Thanks,
Paul


----------



## ibglowin (Oct 4, 2011)

Free testing is good! Go with it as long as they will do it for you. Sorbate is not needed as long as the wine is fermented to dry (and you check with hydrometer) and you use proper sanitization techniques throughout the process. 

If you add any sugar post fermentation, then yes, add the sorbate. Red wines actually need less SO2 than White wines due to the fact that the tannins in red wine also act as an "antioxident". Most people just sulfite to an equal level as its easier than trying to remember. Whites are more prone to oxidation (browning) as they have little or no tannins plus you can easily see the change making it less appealing to drink (but it still taste fine!) 

Since red wines can/will improve with age and tend to be held on too for longer periods of time its important to have the proper amount of SO2 at bottling time. Remember the amount of SO2 required is dependent on the pH of the wine. The higher the pH, the more SO2 you will need to protect the wine for the long term.


----------



## PCharles (Oct 5, 2011)

*White Labs Follow Up*

White Labs called me back this afternoon and confirmed that I had indeed followed their instructions, adding the ML bacteria to the fermenter at the tail end of fermentation. As you can see in their instructions, it states the ML bacteria are added to the must. I'm not planning to add any more ML bacteria at this point and will test for MLF later. 

This ML procedure differs from other material that I've read, and got spooked as the bacteria are anerobic (require oxygen free environment). It worried me that pressing and racking exposed them to too much oxygen. My concerns were eased by the White Labs tech service person who stressed the tenacity of the bacteria. 

I'll not fret about it any more.

On to the next challenge.

Paul


----------



## naperwineguy (Oct 5, 2011)

Sulfites = yes. Sorbate = only if you intend to backsweeten, and then you also need to be careful if your wine has gone through MLF. The major danger in adding sorbate to wine is active malolactic bacteria. They can metabolize sorbic acid and produce a disastrous bi-product called hexanedienol that has a strong geranium-like smell. This will ruin the wine, and there is no way to recover from this fault. Therefore, make sure ML bacteria are under control (via Lyzozyme, pH, and SO2) before you add sorbate.

As for reds requiring sufite more than whites, I suppose as Mike mentions, the aging requirements for reds tend to be longer, and the higher pH, thus the need to add is greater, however the tannins in the reds will provide some level of oxidation protection to the wine - which is why they can age for a much longer period of time than whites.


----------



## PCharles (Oct 5, 2011)

*Re Red*

I'll not be adding any back sweetening to the Cab Sauv, but its good to know about sorbate and the negative reaction. 

I am very interested in the proper addition of sufphite after MLF. I reviewed Toms power point on pH and SO2 http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4915 and found it very interesting. I do plan to send a sample out for testing, but would not mind having some type of home sulphite test. Is there one that anyone would recommend. I'm wondering if the Titrets or accuvin products were accurate enough. 

Thanks,

Paul


----------



## ibglowin (Oct 5, 2011)

Sadly they are about as accurate as throwing a dart at a dart board. See if you can get it done for free like the MLF test if you possibly can. Your only other options really are the $99 A/O rig sold by more wine (I use this) or the nice handy dandy Vinmetrica all in one SO2 meter sold for $245.


----------



## naperwineguy (Oct 5, 2011)

I have the Vinmetrica - and it is worth its weight in gold! Highly recommend this product.

http://www.vinmetrica.com/

Stay away from the titrate kits, unless you like throwing your money down the drain - then by all means, go for it.

The a/o method is good, and easy to do. I've seen instructions out on the web for manufacturing your own a/o kit at home, but really the amount saved versus buying the setup from morewine! is hardly worth the effort (BTW - the price on morewine's website for this kit is now $120)

http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/18643//Economy_Aeration-Oxidation_Free_SO2_Test_Kit


----------



## PCharles (Oct 6, 2011)

*Measuring S02*



ibglowin said:


> Sadly they are about as accurate as throwing a dart at a dart board. See if you can get it done for free like the MLF test if you possibly can. Your only other options really are the $99 A/O rig sold by more wine (I use this) or the nice handy dandy Vinmetrica all in one SO2 meter sold for $245.



Mike, the Vinmetrica http://www.vinmetrica.com/ unit looks like a handy dandy method. The video on their site is worth the few minutes to watch. 

There's one more thing to add to my wish list.

Thanks,

Paul


----------



## ibglowin (Oct 6, 2011)

This is how it begins Paul!


----------

