# Sparkolloid vs Super Klear



## dangerdave

Since I currently have both on hand, I am making a side by side comparison of not only their clearing effects, but also their impact on the wine's color, flavor, and feel.

I have two batches of Dragon Blood going (in primary) on which I will be testing these additives. These two batches were made using the standard DB recipe, with brew belts for quick fermentation and temp regulation, and Montrachet yeast (because I had two packets on hand).

As soon as they are dry, I will stabilize and add the clearing agents. We will then evaluate their effects on the wines' clarity---with pictures! When they are finished, I will give my take on their other characteristics as well.

Stay tuned!


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## oldwhiskers

My experience has been that Super Kleer was faster to clear with less fallout over time after racking off the lees. Anxious to see your results.


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## the_rayway

Looking forward to hearing your results!


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## jamesngalveston

as with all things wine, theres 10 ways to do any..
I have found that the below is the fastest way to clear, regasrdless of what the instructions state on the superkleer package.

Two - Part Liquid Fining

Used to clear wine and beer. This two-part liquid fining, contains Kieselsol #1 and Chitosan #2, originated by Wine Kitz. It is absolutely the most remarkable fining product on the market today. It has been known to clear most wines in as little as 24 hours to a brilliant finish. The first component in this two-stage clarification process is Kieselsol. Kieselsol is gelatine derived from natural sources, which moves around in your wine and attaches itself to the suspended particles. Chitosan, a natural product, is the second component of this two-stage clarification process. It is a naturally charged polysaccharide derived from chitin, extracted from the outer shells of ocean crustaceans. After the Kiesesol has been left to do its job, the Chitosan comes in and pulls all the particles that the Kiesesol has adhered down to the bottom. The best method of useing the clarifier in the seconday, open packet #1, Kieselsol, and add into secondary and stir vigoursly for 2 - 3 minutes. Leave settle for at least 15 minutes to give it the time it needs to attach itself to all the suspended particles. After the Kiesesol has been left to do its job, add the Chitosan, packet #2 and stir gently 1 minute. The Chitosan comes in and pulls all the particles that the Kiesesol has adhered to down to the bottom and settles to a nice firm sediment that is easy to rack off. Best to let the wine settle for about 3 - 4 days before racking.


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## wineforfun

I have used both and find them both to clear(when used on DB) approx. at the same rate(within a day or two of each other). The biggest thing I noticed was how SuperKleer compacted the lees better than Sparkloid. Sparkloid always seems to leave some "whispy" lees floating around toward the bottom and on the sides. I have not tasted the SuperKleer wine yet to offer any taste opinions.


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## jamesngalveston

i started out using sparkoloid...long time ago...i never could taste any diffrence in wine finned with one are the other.
but as you said...those fine wispy smokey lees...i think comes back even after its cleared...and bottled, even when we think its clear it isnt...


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## dangerdave

Sparkolloid is known for being very gentle on wines. It is also very cheap per application. I bought a one pound bag for about $10 more than two years ago, and I'm still trying to use it all up. You can get a bag now (at Midwest Supplies, for example) for about $12. We're talking maybe 10 to 15 cents per batch.

Midwest Supply (again, for example) sells Super Klear KC Finings for $2.50 per application!

As far as cost goes, Sparkolloid wins round one! Super Klear is about 20x more expensive!


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## jamesngalveston

if you find you like super kleer better, you can buy in bulk, and the cost is like .50 cents for the same amount you may 2.50 for.


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## dangerdave

True, James. I guess it wasn't fair to compair bulk Sparkolloid to single dose Super Kleer. Now, if I can just remember to spell it right: _Kleer_!

Cost recap: If you buy Super-Kleer in bulk---a one liter bottle of LQ Chitosan at Midwest Supplies is $14. That's 33.8oz at one ounce per dose---about 40 cents per dose. One liter of Kieselsol is $19 (I'm not even considering shipping at this time), which comes to about 14 cents per dose; for a grand total of 54 cents per dose. Now, I'm not sure how much a tablespoon of Sparkolloid weighs, but it's not much---the stuff is so light and fluffy. A quick Google search brought up about 3g, so we'll go with that. So, with 453.6g per pound (at $12 a pound), we're looking at about 8 cents per dose for Sparkolloid.

_As cheap as..._
Sparkolloid = 8 cents
Super Kleer = 54 cents

That makes Super Kleer about 7x more expensive than Sparkolloid. That sounds better!

I know they will both clear the wine, and fairly quickly. What I'm _really_ interested in is the flavor and color. Having two identicle batches to compare will be helpful.


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## jamesngalveston

I am interested in what the outcome is for you....


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## Rocky

I have both Sparkoloid and Kieselsol & Chitosan in 1 liter bottles (Kieselsol $21, Chitosan $16). Super Klear KC is just a pre-package of Kieselsol and Chitosan (that is what the "KC" stands for). Sparkoloid is my "go to" for tough cases. Here are some updated pictures of my adventures with my WE California Chardonnay. I used what came with the kit and when that did not do any good, I added Sparkoloid. That was two days ago.


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## dangerdave

Thanks for the pics, Rocky! Those look nice. I made a tropical fruit wine (started in August) that took two months to clear with Super Kleer. The lees were _very_ compact, needless to say. Information suggests that Sparkolloid helps wth pectin haze, while Super Kleer does not.

We've got some time to speculate before my wines complete fermentation and get to be dosed. I think this part of the process (discussion) is just as helpful as the end results!


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## suecasa

*ever seen it work this fast?*

This picture was taken seconds after I added the chitosan (45 min after adding the kieselsol) ... amazing immediate flocculation! i've used the combo before but never with this kind of immediate reaction! 

(any reason to be concerned??)


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## dangerdave

Wow, Sue! That is interesting! I've never seen the like. I guess it's not a problem as long as it all falls to the bottom.


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## Thig

wineforfun said:


> The biggest thing I noticed was how SuperKleer compacted the lees better than Sparkloid. Sparkloid always seems to leave some "whispy" lees floating around toward the bottom and on the sides.



I have noticed the same thing. The Sparkloid works fast and clears well but leaves a fluffy layer on the bottom that is agitated very easily.


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## dangerdave

I got the two batches of DB out of primary and into their carboys last night. I stabilized, degassed ( a lot of gas this time!), and added the clearing agents. I simmered 1 tbsp of Sparkolloid for twenty minutes and stirred the hot mixture into the one on the right. I added Keisilsol to the other and sirred gently...waited twenty minutes (while the sparkolloid simmered) and then added the Chitosan ( and stirred again).

The first pic was right after adding the agents at 6:30pm last night...







The second pic (below) is twelve hours later (this morning). The Sparkolloid has some catching up to do...


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## jamesngalveston

hummmm.....thats why i quit using sparkoloid, and your lees will be very compact after about a week.


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## olusteebus

I am sure most here are like me, the cost difference is not an issue as it is so little per bottle. 

My big concern is the compacting of the lees. I will use Super Kleer from now on.

Thanks to all for the info.


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## dangerdave

I'm going to let them both sit for a week for comparison purposes. I'm pretty sure the Super Kleer will go clear first. But I'm still holding out for the taste test. In the end, that's the decider for me. If the difference is zero or negligible, then I'll be getting me some bulk kiesilsol and chitosan very soon. The Super Kleer started clearing within minutes of adding the chitosan. It may be 7x more expensive, but 54 cents per batch (1.8 cents per bottle) is still a minimal cost.


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## Elmer

suecasa said:


> This picture was taken seconds after I added the chitosan (45 min after adding the kieselsol) ... amazing immediate flocculation! i've used the combo before but never with this kind of immediate reaction!
> 
> (any reason to be concerned??)



I added to Chitosan to my WE kit last night. 
There was Bentonite already there, and I had the same visual as your.
There were little globs floating about, even more so when I degassed it with the pump.
This is my 1st go round with Chitosan, but I also used Sparkalloid on another batch last night.

I dont have results yet, but for me it is easier to stop at my LHBS for Sparkalloid at $2 for 2OZ, than drive 45 minutes for 1 package if SK for $2


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## jamesngalveston

dave you are correct at about 2 cents a bottle for a 6 gallon, and about 4 per bottle on a 3 gallon, which is nothing.
elmer you all ways hate the soft lees...thats what you get with sparkoloid, and you may get little whispy sediments after bottling with it...sparkoloid you should wait a month before bottleing.


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## BernardSmith

jamesngalveston said:


> dave you are correct at about 2 cents a bottle for a 6 gallon, and about 4 per bottle on a 3 gallon, which is nothing.
> elmer you all ways hate the soft lees...thats what you get with sparkoloid, and you may get little whispy sediments after bottling with it...sparkoloid you should wait a month before bottleing.


 
Chitosan is made from shell fish so vegetarians may want to forgo that product. Is Sparkolloid animal free?


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## keahunter

I know that this has been brought up in other threads but, I want to use the SK because of the compact lees and no "whispy ghosts" but my wife has a shellfish allergy. I've read that the SK doesn't contain the proteins of the shellfish so there's no concern but I'm wondering if anyone here with shellfish allergy has actually used the SK? I would rather, but I don't want to kill my wife in the process


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## dangerdave

I have heard this concern many times, Bernard. You're not actually drinking chitosan when you have wine cleared by it, any more than you are drinking Sparkolloid if you have used it. The wine clears when the product falls out to be discarded after racking. If used properly, it is not even a concern for people who are allergic to shellfish.

FYI: "Sparkolloid is a fining agent developed by Scott Laboratories for clarification. It is a blend of polysaccharides in a diatomaceous earth carrier and has a strong positive charge. For some, it is the product of choice for clarifying white and blush wines. Sparkolloid is one of the more benign fining materials, and when used in reasonable quantities, it seldom strips wine flavors or aromas. It neutralizes the repelling charge of particulate matter allowing aggregation and formation of compact lees. It does not remove desirable color constituents. It is not a cold stabilizing, heat stabilizing or odor removing agent. 1 tsp. per gallon clarifies naturally by removing protein haze."


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## jamesngalveston

your right about no protiens in SK. and as dave pointed out, after it clears there is no trace of SK left...
Is your wife allergic to sulphites.
I know this for fact: 5 out of 10 people who are allergic to shellfish are not.
They are allergic to sulphites...No shell fish in The United States is sold without bisodium phosphate, are bi sodium sulphate...Period.


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## jamesngalveston

Sparkolloid Fining Agent

Sparkolloid is a fining agent developed by Scott Laboratories for clarification. It is a blend of polysaccharides in a diatomaceous earth carrier and has a strong positive charge. For some, it is the product of choice for clarifying white and blush wines. Sparkolloid is one of the more benign fining materials, and when used in reasonable quantities, it seldom strips wine flavors or aromas. It neutralizes the repelling charge of particulate matter allowing aggregation and formation of compact lees. It does not remove desirable color constituents. It is not a cold stabilizing, heat stabilizing or odor removing agent. 1 tsp. per gallon clarifies naturally by removing protein haze.

To prepare for adding, it is recommended to use distilled water distilled water. Bring 2 cups to boiling and stir in 1 tsp. per gallon of Sparkolloid. Stir frequently, maintain the mixture at about 180*F. Sparkolloid contains some filter aids that will not dissolve. These particles will be adequately distributed by constant stirring as it is being heated. Agitating the mixture constantly is important. When all the globulues of clarifier have gone into suspension and the mixture is smooth and creamy (about 15 minutes), Slowly stir the Hot Sparkolloid into the wine to be clarified. Sparkolloid produces very fine lees, and the lees settle out of the wine slowly. Consequently, this material should not be used less than 30 days before bottling time, or small amounts may precipitate later in the bottles. Many winemakers allow for an eight-week settling time just to be on the safe side.


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## jamesngalveston

a little research:
foods containing shellfish gelatin,protein, etc.

hot dogs

Compost or fertilizers
Fish food
Lip balm, lip gloss
Pet food

Deli meats, hot dogs (from gelatin)
Dips, spreads
Fried foods (from contaminated frying oil)

Ethnic foods, for example, fried rice, paella and spring rolls
Garnishes, for example, antipasto, caponata (Sicilian relish)
Gelatin, marshmallows
Pizza toppings
Salad dressings
Sauces, for example, marinara, Nuoc Mâm, steak and Worcestershire
Seafood soups and broths
Spreads, for example, taramasalata
Sushi (California rolls)
and the fish that eat shellfish, which ends up in there flesh
Anchovy, basa, bass, bluefish, bream, carp, catfish (channel cat, mudcat), char, chub, cisco, cod, eel, flounder, grouper, haddock, hake, halibut, herring, mackerel, mahi-mahi, marlin, monkfish (angler fish, lotte), orange roughy, perch, pickerel (dore, walleye), pike, plaice, pollock, pompano, porgy, rockfish, salmon, sardine, shark, smelt, snapper, sole, sturgeon, swordfish, tilapia (St. Peter's fish), trout, tuna (albacore, bonito), turbot, white fish, whiting.


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## LoveTheWine

Elmer said:


> I added to Chitosan to my WE kit last night.
> There was Bentonite already there, and I had the same visual as your.
> There were little globs floating about, even more so when I degassed it with the pump.
> This is my 1st go round with Chitosan, but I also used Sparkalloid on another batch last night.
> 
> I dont have results yet, but for me it is easier to stop at my LHBS for Sparkalloid at $2 for 2OZ, than drive 45 minutes for 1 package if SK for $2



Wow can't believe it's that hard to get. I live in a small town and can find it at: The grocery store, hardware store or LHBS.


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## BernardSmith

jamesngalveston said:


> a little research:
> foods containing shellfish gelatin,protein, etc.
> 
> hot dogs
> 
> Compost or fertilizers
> Fish food
> Lip balm, lip gloss
> Pet food
> 
> Deli meats, hot dogs (from gelatin)
> Dips, spreads
> Fried foods (from contaminated frying oil)
> 
> Ethnic foods, for example, fried rice, paella and spring rolls
> Garnishes, for example, antipasto, caponata (Sicilian relish)
> Gelatin, marshmallows
> Pizza toppings
> Salad dressings
> Sauces, for example, marinara, Nuoc Mâm, steak and Worcestershire
> Seafood soups and broths
> Spreads, for example, taramasalata
> Sushi (California rolls)
> and the fish that eat shellfish, which ends up in there flesh
> Anchovy, basa, bass, bluefish, bream, carp, catfish (channel cat, mudcat), char, chub, cisco, cod, eel, flounder, grouper, haddock, hake, halibut, herring, mackerel, mahi-mahi, marlin, monkfish (angler fish, lotte), orange roughy, perch, pickerel (dore, walleye), pike, plaice, pollock, pompano, porgy, rockfish, salmon, sardine, shark, smelt, snapper, sole, sturgeon, swordfish, tilapia (St. Peter's fish), trout, tuna (albacore, bonito), turbot, white fish, whiting.



so true and so I choose not to eat any foods made with any animal products... and i choose not to use any dead animals (including shell fish) in my wine making whether the shell fish fall out or not. It's simply a choice my wife and I make and I and she is am happy to live with.


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## cmason1957

BernardSmith said:


> so true and so I choose not to eat any foods made with any animal products... and i choose not to use any dead animals (including shell fish) in my wine making whether the shell fish fall out or not. It's simply a choice my wife and I make and I and she is am happy to live with.



I can understand why you feel that way. I think if someone close to me was (or felt they were) allergic to shellfish, I would let time do its thing and clear my wine. There is no reason to use super kleer or anything, except for expediency. They all clear given enough time.


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## jamesngalveston

I agree with cmason, time will clear any wine.....and if your a vegetarian thats the way i would do it, are allergic to shellfish....
i was amazed at what had hidden animal products in it...
who in the world would think that cheese has animal by products in it.


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## GreginND

I rarely use clearing agents other than time and have not used super kleer. But I do have a very stubborn plum wine that has been aging over 1 year now that simply refuses to clear. It has been filtered twice, pectic enzyme, bentonite and lots of time to no avail. I suspect it may be the dreaded waxy stuff from the skins that is keeping it cloudy. Anyone know if super kleer will help in this case?


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## loumik

GreginND said:


> I rarely use clearing agents other than time and have not used super kleer. But I do have a very stubborn plum wine that has been aging over 1 year now that simply refuses to clear. It has been filtered twice, pectic enzyme, bentonite and lots of time to no avail. I suspect it may be the dreaded waxy stuff from the skins that is keeping it cloudy. Anyone know if super kleer will help in this case?



Hello Greg, 

I made a plum wine a little over a year ago and bottled it a month ago. I used sparkolloid when it didn't clear in a reasonable time. It's clear as crystal now.
If you don't have sparkolloid, I would think super kleer would probably work just as well.

Good luck,
Larry


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## yakhunter

I have some recent empirical evidence to share.

I made my first batch of DB and let it sit and clear for MONTHS because frankly, I was busy. I followed all instructions so used sparkalloid.

It was crystal clear to the eye. I bottled it and let it sit for a couple of weeks and when I took a bottle out to open, it had that wispy smoky sediment. 

People on this forum suggested I try SuperKlear. I poured the remaining bottles back into a carboy and added the superklear. The NEXT MORNING there was a 3/8" or so layer of sediment in the bottom! Superklear took a lot of crud out of suspension that Sparkaloid had either left or created.

One vote for Superklear. 
Also because I like shellfish because I grew up on Cape Cod. Plus Kielosol and Chitosan sound like Samurai brothers or super heroes or something.


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## vernsgal

keahunter said:


> I know that this has been brought up in other threads but, I want to use the SK because of the compact lees and no "whispy ghosts" but my wife has a shellfish allergy. I've read that the SK doesn't contain the proteins of the shellfish so there's no concern but I'm wondering if anyone here with shellfish allergy has actually used the SK? I would rather, but I don't want to kill my wife in the process



I think with a shellfish allergy I wouldn't take the risk. IMO


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## BernardSmith

jamesngalveston said:


> I agree with cmason, time will clear any wine.....and if your a vegetarian thats the way i would do it, are allergic to shellfish....
> i was amazed at what had hidden animal products in it...
> who in the world would think that cheese has animal by products in it.



Oh, I think most vegetarians and people who have religious eating taboos are quite familiar with the "hidden" ingredients in processed foods. For instance red food dye can come from a crushed insect - cochneal. What may be hidden from omnivores is quite visible to people who need for one reason or another to be very conscious of ingredients... By the way, milk is an animal product ( a problem for vegans) and rennet can be made from the enzymes found in the stomach of calves ( or made from a vegetable source)....


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## jamesngalveston

Been reading becuase its interesting to see what really has animal by products...the ones that really get me is....film,cd,dvd,printer ink,flatscreen tvs...the list goes on and on...weird.

I have picked are had a fresh bananna...the other day i picked one from my tree and it was really good..
Beautiful yellow gold color, so i picked like 2 dozen and put them on my kitchen table, and went shopping ..came home about 2 hours later, and they were black.....2 days after that, the were not edible any longer.


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## dangerdave

I've got no allergies, and I'm certainly not a vegetarian. Animals are delicious! That being said, everyone has to make the choice that's best for them.

Here they are: Thirteen days after starting primary fermentation, four days after adding the clearing agents. The Sparkolloid is catching up, but it's still a bit hazy. It usually takes a week for the Sparkoilloid to finish clearing. Like I said, if they taste the same, it's Super Kleer for me from now on!


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## BernardSmith

Is it my imagination or does the carboy with Sparkolloid not seem to have more lees on the bottom than the carboy on the left? Or is this simply a reflection from the towel under both containers?


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## jamesngalveston

actually it should..its a powder consisting of diatomaceous earth which will fall by its self as lees...and its real fluffy


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## Thig

jamesngalveston said:


> ...and its real fluffy



That is the big problem with Sparkolloid, not that it is a little slower.


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## dangerdave

The lees are about even---depth-wise. But the Sparkolloid still has some falling out to do. I'm just curious as to whether or not the Super Kleer will change the taste. I've only ever made DB with Sparkolloid. The color looks good, so that doesn't seem to be an issue. I can also check the tone of the lees after the first racking and see if any color has been stripped.

We shall see. Tasting on Christmas Eve!


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## suecasa

*update ...*

remember my amazing bubbles from page 2 of this thread??

the bulk of the wine ended up being crystal clear in 1.5 days!!!! but the lees were about 4" tall!! and extremely fluffy ... like dont jiggle the bottle or everything gets cloudy again fluffy!! I've never seen that with SK

I've been racking a few times to smaller carboys - one for the top that's clear, then the cloudy to settle down again and rack again ... i think i just about have it ...but have lost a few bottles in the process, and without the crazy racking would have lost over a gallon

is there any way to get the lees to compact more if they aren't doing it on their own?


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## dangerdave

They usually compress themselves more over time. The answer is "time".


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## jamesngalveston

sue looks like you used a lot yeast nutrient...are something.
post a pic of what it looks like now.


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## dangerdave

Ok, what a week! My wine making was put on delay this week when my father-in-law had a stroke on the 19th. He was in the hospital and hour away, so lots of driving back and forth during the Christmas season. We got him into a rehab unit in his home town (just two miles from his house) on Christmas Eve, so he can get back into shape and back home for good. He is recovering well, his deficit is mild, and he's in good spirits.

So, the clearing continues. Actually, the Super Klear is done and the Sparkolloid has been trying to catch up. I have had batches of DB using Sparkolloid that cleared up in a few days, and others that have taken weeks. Not sure what the main factor is in that. I'm going to get back in the Lab this week and do some tasting---after I filter both batches. I'll check the color and condition of the lees as well. Most of us know how that will turn out. Flavor will still be the determinine factor for me. I've been making my version of DB for over two years now, and I don't want the taste to change. My wife wouldn't hear of it! 

Thank you for your patience.


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## jamesngalveston

post a pic of the recent....would like to see.


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## dangerdave

Once again, I'm one move behind my posts. I'll get you a pic before I disturb it tomorrow. Just for you, James.


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## jamesngalveston

lol, thanks dave.


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## Winenoob66

lol I can't wait to see the results of the taste test as I am holding off starting my 1st batch to see what clearing agent I will be using.


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## dangerdave

Ok, I finally got around to the final check on these two batches of Dragon Blood. The Sparkolloid had not yet cleared completely after two weeks (right). The Super Klear batch was crystal clear (left).







I racked them off the lees for observation. Remarkably, the Sparkolloid lees had more color, while the Super Klear lees were fairly pale. They had both compacted nicely. You be the judge...

Sparkolloid---





Super Klear---






I filtered them both and added the proper amount of sugar to our liking, letting them sit overnight.  After filtering, the wines were indistinguishable. The taste test came next.

My wife and I both sipped our samples with a look of confusion.  She and I think very much alike---makes most things very easy for us. She voiced my thoughts. There was something...something very minor...something subtly different between these two batches in taste. Hardly noticeable, save perhaps to DB officionados like us. 

The Sparkolloid batch was a little bit smoother, with a slightly fruitier taste. The Super Klear batch had more of a bight, and my wife said it made her tongue tingle. She liked both---because they were so very similar---and in the end, voiced no preference for future batches. I felt the same. I also surmise that after bootling and sitting for a few weeks, we probably won't be able to tell them apart. 

The Super Klear gives the advantage of clearing very quickly, and producing slightly more compact lees. If you are not into filtering, Super Klear is a good choice. If I had not filtered, I would have had to wait several more weeks for the Sparkolloid batch to clear---and even then, not for certain. 

I think the winner here goes to Super Klear. The only advantage the Sparkolloid seems to have is cost (and that's minimal), and the fear of any shell fish allergy attacks. 

Thanks for tuning in! Follow up discussions to follow...


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## jamesngalveston

Thanks dave for the experiment, it confirms what i have thought myself since i started using superkleer,, remember its cheaper in bulk.


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## dangerdave

I'm definately leaning that direction, James. Next order I make, I'm getting some.


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## Winenoob66

Thanks for the testing Dave, and sorry about your Father-in-law I hope he is doing good.


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## jamesngalveston

here is another test for you.
i learned that when adding sorbate to a wine just racked also inhibits clearing .after i noticed this I started reading, and most white papers indicate not using sorbate untill the wine is clear...you can add kmeta/campden, but not sorbate.
sorbate as we know inhibits yeast cells, but it also changes those cells making them harder to drop out...they more are less float.
If you add your sorbate after your wine clears, it clears faster and the less yeast cells you have the better the sorbate works, and you dont have to use as much...
thanks dave.....all ready have my db planned for 2014....

happy new year..


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## dangerdave

Good info, James, thanks. It has also been a "hard rule" that sulfite and sorbate work best together. How do we match that with your info?


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## jamesngalveston

i would think the chance of any wine thats 12.5 percent are better getting any germ growth in a 4 are 5 weeks is pretty low, if any. exspecially if under air lock.
but, what i do is wait till i rack the third time and add campden, when it clears i add sorbate, if its needed, then wait to bottle.


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## jamesngalveston

http://nanaimowinemakers.org/Notes/Sorbate.htm

http://www.vawa.net/winemaking-articles/Stabilizing Sweet Wines.html

http://www.brewersdirect.com/wp-content/uploads/POTASSIUM-SORBATE-Wine-Stabilizer.pdf


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## dangerdave

So you've still got sulfite in there at the time you're adding the sorbate. I see. I think that would work just fine.


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## jamesngalveston

I only use sorbate in wine that I make for my sister, because she likes hers about 12 percent abv.....
For my own...i kick it up to 14 to 15 percent, which does not need sorbate.
My wine is clear, and at 15 percent, there is not yeast left, none, nada,
gone....and I can backsweeten...which will bring the abv down some...
once the yeast is dead, it cant just come back as a zombie rouque yeast.


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## Winenoob66

But zombie yeasts are our friends


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## Elmer

I just used Superkleer on my DB for the first time this weekend.
I know people will tell me that I have been using it all along with my kits, since it comes with the 2 parts, which when packaged together is essentially superkleer.

However I had a package and dropped it in and it was kleer the next day.
So much quicker than Sparkalloid.

So much more packed that Sparkalloid.

I was happy, I was thrilled
I did a snoopy dance!!!!!


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## calvin

Elmer said:


> I just used Superkleer on my DB for the first time this weekend.
> I know people will tell me that I have been using it all along with my kits, since it comes with the 2 parts, which when packaged together is essentially superkleer.
> 
> However I had a package and dropped it in and it was kleer the next day.
> So much quicker than Sparkalloid.
> 
> So much more packed that Sparkalloid.
> 
> I was happy, I was thrilled
> I did a snoopy dance!!!!!



I tried superkleer for the first time on my skeeter pee the other day. It was crystal clear in 24 hours. I'm thinking its worth the extra cost 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## jojabri

Perhaps I'm naive, but I just use whatever the recipe or base recipe if I'm modifying someone else's recipe calls for.

Generally speaking, I use Sparkolloid, mainly because I'm primarilly toying with DB variants and frozen concentrate juice. It works fine, and I'm 100% pleased. though I have seen some of that "wispy settlement" in a few batches after sitting for a few months.

A few recipes I have used have called for Super Kleer such as Skittles, Blueberry, Candy Cane, and coffee. It totally freaked me out to check on the Skittles and the coffee batches an hour or so later, and seeing those clumps beginning to form and fall.


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## Elmer

jojabri said:


> Perhaps I'm naive, but I just use whatever the recipe or base recipe if I'm modifying someone else's recipe calls for.
> 
> Generally speaking, I use Sparkolloid, mainly because I'm primarilly toying with DB variants and frozen concentrate juice. It works fine, and I'm 100% pleased. though I have seen some of that "wispy settlement" in a few batches after sitting for a few months.
> 
> A few recipes I have used have called for Super Kleer such as Skittles, Blueberry, Candy Cane, and coffee. It totally freaked me out to check on the Skittles and the coffee batches an hour or so later, and seeing those clumps beginning to form and fall.



I used to use nothing but Sparkalloid, because the LHBS I frequented only sold that.
I was advised, strongly by James in Galveston to give Superkleer a shot and I would never go back.

I did, and I never will.
Superkleer and Sparkalloid are interchangeable in any receipe. They just give slightly different result. That is unless you have a fish allergy in which case you should use one and not the other.


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## dangerdave

Ok, I'm officially a Super Kleer convert. I have been a hold-out for the manufacturer's instructions on the Super Kleer, and have been unimpressed with the results. I have a gewurstraminer that is still slightly cloudy after three weeks---that's following the instructions on the SK package: stir in kieselsol, wait an hour, stir in chitosan. Bah, I say!

This morning, I racked my triple batch of DB into three carboys. In a "what the heck" moment, I added the Super Kleer just like they intruct in the kits most of use make. Stir in kieselsol for three minutes then immediately add chitosan and stir for three minutes. By the time I started on the last carboy (about ten minutes later), most of the lees had already collected in the first, and I could see it was well on it's way to being clear! Wow!

I'm a Super Kleer man from here on out! Now, to order some in bulk!


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## calvin

I bought a liter jug of each ingredient of superkleer. Now I just need to figure out how much of each to use per 6 gal batch


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## dangerdave

The typical dose for kieselsol is 1/4 oz for 5-6 gallons. Yes, that liter will treat about 135 six gallon batches, and should last you, like, _forever_.

Chitosan is used at a dose of 1 oz per 5-6 gallon batch of wine. That's about 33 doses in your liter.

So, you'll need four bottles of kieselsol for each bottle of chitosan. Assuming you are going to make 135 batches within the next few years.


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## calvin

Thanks for the dosage info

I think my wife would kill me if I tried making even close to that much wine. 

The guy at my LHBS said the stuff doesn't expire. So I won't be buying any fining agents any time soon


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## jojabri

dangerdave said:


> The typical dose for kieselsol is 1/4 oz for 5-6 gallons. Yes, that liter will treat about 135 six gallon batches, and should last you, like, _forever_.
> 
> Chitosan is used at a dose of 1 oz per 5-6 gallon batch of wine. That's about 33 doses in your liter.
> 
> So, you'll need four bottles of kieselsol for each bottle of chitosan. Assuming you are going to make 135 batches within the next few years.



135 batches in a few years could be done! I'm gonna hang my head and shut my mouth as to how many batches I've done in less than a year. Considering most are DB variants I can blame it on you.. Muhahahahaa!!!

Although it does make stable sense financially.
buying 1 ltrs of each

kieselsol (4 x $18.99) + chitosan ($13.99) = $89.95 (divided by 135 batches approx 67 cents)

Super Kleer packets (135 x $2.49) = $336.15 (obviously $2.49 per batch)

At it's base you could save $246 if you use it all.

You still break even if you make at least 36 batches which would be right at the 200 gal mark.

Yes it makes a WHOLE LOT, perhaps finding a local wine making friend to go halvsies would be a good option.


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## dangerdave

calvin said:


> The guy at my LHBS said the stuff doesn't expire. So I won't be buying any fining agents any time soon


 
Thanks, Calvin. That is also good to know. When my packets are all gone, I'll get some liters.


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