# Oakng wine



## Rocky (Jul 3, 2011)

There seem to be many alterntives in oaking the wine; spirals, cubes, shavings, barrels, etc. In communication with Mike (Ibglowin), he states that barrel oaking is not as permanent as he would like it to be. If you will help me with a couple of questions, 


1. Has anyone tried the "oak infusor" that George sells? If so, what has been your experience? It appears that it would work with shavings and cubes. Does it also work with spirals?


2. How long are the oak spirals? How does one get them out of a carboy easily?


3. Intuitively, due to greater surface area, it would seem that oak shavings would impart more flavor. Is this correct or do spirals and cubes work better? Cubes and spirals would be easier to work with, right?


Thanks for your help. To date, I have only used the shavings and I am about to use two new barrels.


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## tonyt (Jul 3, 2011)

Rocky said:


> 2. How long are the oak spirals? How does one get the out of a carboy easily?


I love the spirals. They are neat and easy to use (remove). They come in several oaks (American and French) and several toasts (char, light, medium, medium plus and heavy). The ones I get from FVW are eight inches long and just narrower than the neck of typical carboys. Most folks tie mono-filament or dental floss on to retrieve them easily. The instructions says one spiral per three gallons (they come two to a package). Says extraction is complete in six weeks, I check each week after the third week. Extra bonus (Mike's suggestion) is to save the used spirals for the smoker. 

Congrats on your two new children. I have one Vadia Barrel and love it. I wish Mike had told me that I really would want two.


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## tonyt (Jul 3, 2011)

Rocky said:


> Mike (Ibglowin), he states that barrel oaking is not as permanent as he would like it to be.



I can't believe that I am going to disagree with one of my Gurus but here goes. Mike calls me an Oak Monster, a moniker I wear with pride. It could be that he is acquiring the taste for Chateau d' Plywood also. So as his tolerance for oak increased he senses a decrease in potency. 

Just kidding Mike, I actually believe that very young oak taste is stronger and fades after the first several months. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa.


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## ibglowin (Jul 3, 2011)

Ha! What is happening and other wine makers who use barrels report the exact same phenomena as well. You oak the wine in the barrel for 2-3 months whatever till it taste just right. Pull it out, back to carboy as its not ready to bottle yet.Let it sit for 3 months, taste it, the oak has now fallen back to where your no longer happy with the oak level. I have not seen this phenomena with beans or cubes. First time I ever experienced it was with the Vadai.


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## RickC (Jul 3, 2011)

No expert but here are my thoughts. I believe the increased surface area will allow for faster extraction, very beneficial for the oak added during primary fermentation. Once in bulk aging, I would prefer a slower, more controlled release. Ilike the spirals when adding additional oak beyond the kit oak. I use the mono-filament and begin tasting at 2 weeks. It is then real easy to pull the spirals and top up or add marbles whenever the oak level is to your liking. With beans you will have to rack to a clean carboy. For my taste, one spiral is sometimes enough. I overoaked a wine once and don't intend to do that again.


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## tonyt (Jul 3, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> What is happening . . . You oak the wine in the barrel for 2-3 months whatever till it taste just right. Pull it out, back to carboy as its not ready to bottle yet.Let it sit for 3 months, taste it, the oak has now fallen back to where your no longer happy with the oak level.



Right again Kimosabe. I did just that with a Valpolicella Ripasso. Over oaked (even for an Oak Monster) in the barrel. Racked back to glass carboy for three more months of aging and wahla, Yesterday I bottled it and it was great. I wonder if it would fade if it was over oaked and then went straight to bottle?


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## Rocky (Jul 3, 2011)

Very interesting. Thank you all. Great idea to use the spirals in a smoker. We used to "use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without" when I was a kid and I still like to find "extra" uses for things before they are discarded. 


From what I have read here, I will be experimenting with the spirals.


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## Waldo (Jul 4, 2011)

Great choice IMO Rocky


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## rrussell (Jul 5, 2011)

wouldn't it be nice if they would start putting spirals in the wine kits.


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## robie (Jul 5, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> Ha! What is happening and other wine makers who use barrels report the exact same phenomena as well. You oak the wine in the barrel for 2-3 months whatever till it taste just right. Pull it out, back to carboy as its not ready to bottle yet.Let it sit for 3 months, taste it, the oak has now fallen back to where your no longer happy with the oak level. I have not seen this phenomena with beans or cubes. First time I ever experienced it was with the Vadai.




A few years back, someone said that you should add oak "until it just starts tasting over oaked", then remove the oak source.

That now makes sense, to go a little further than you would normally want, since the oakiness seems to back off a little.


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## Bartman (Jul 5, 2011)

rrussell said:


> wouldn't it be nice if they would start putting spirals in the wine kits.



I agree, but primarily because I bulk age almost all of my wines. The most obvious reason I can see why the manufacturers don't include spirals ( instead using the shavings and cubes) is that the anticipated extraction time for spirals is six weeks. Cubes are probably 2-4 weeks, and shavings are done in a week or so. From the POV of the manufacturer, they want to get the wine fermented and into the bottle ASAP so there is less chance of us silly consumers doing something to screw it up (mainly, allowing it to oxidize), and then complain and want a refund. There are probably other reasons, but that one stands out.

But, given the choice between shavings, cubes and spirals, I will take spirals every time without hesitation. I have occasionally used spirals in lieu of the included oak shavings/cubes for bulk aging periods. Of course, the oak flavor seems to be more strongly and permanently infused if it is included during initial fermentation, so the shavings do have a certain advantage from that standpoint.


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