# Travisty's "Vineyard"



## Travisty (Jun 4, 2009)

I thought I would post a new topic since my desire for a backyard vineyard is beginning to be fulfilled. Appleman has been gracious enough to send me some vines to try out here in Omaha, Nebraska. He sent me 6 one year vignoles and10 corot noir cuttings thislast Monday. Now, I have never gardened or anything of the sort before so this is quite the new adventure for me! So far, I've planted the vignoles vines and I've been watering the corot noir cuttings dailyto get them ready to plant soon. The spacing I'm using is 8' x 10' if I remember correctly. I'll get some pictures up soon. It's been pretty busy here the last week or so, but I did manage to get some pictures taken. I just need to upload them.


I already have one question. I planted the vignoles the day I got them, which happened to be right before what was supposed to be a rather rainy night. According to weather.com we only got 0.14 inches though. I had watered each vine pretty heavily when I planted them, but I didn't water the next day just assuming we had gotten some good rain the night before. Yesterday when I got home from work, the leaves on each vine are looking pretty sad. Some are just about all shriveled up and black. I'm assuming they're not getting enough water so I layed out a soaker hose and watered them quite a bit last night. This morning I have the water on again. Am I right in assuming that the vines were in need of water? I didn't kill them already did I?


Also, what do I need to be thinking about as far as fertilizer and sprays?


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## fivebk (Jun 4, 2009)

Travisty, 

I am not an expert but if the ground was good and moist when you planted them they may just be going through transplant shock. When I recieved my dormant vines they had started to bud some vines had the buds turn brown and others didn't but they all grew just the same. give them some time and they may bud again. My soil is very fertile so I have not had to fertilize. I am just spraying with seven this year to keep all the insect critters at bay

BOB


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## grapeman (Jun 4, 2009)

Bob is right. The vines are better off not leaved out at all when transplanting bareroot vines. The leaves will wilt and some will die. Don't despair. They will replace those dead leaves and shoots with new ones. Grapes have three sets of buds- primary secondary and tertiary. The ones that had grown already were primary ones. The secondaries will grow if need be. It is hard to kill a grapevine- they just want to grow. Have patience............... 


At this point don't be thinking about fertilizer and sprays. Wait until they get growing a bit, then we will discuss that.


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## Travisty (Jun 4, 2009)

Cool, I was sarting to panic.







How long should I expect before seeing new growth? Should I water a lot or a little?


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## grapeman (Jun 4, 2009)

You should just keep the soil moist, not soggy wet. A gallon of water around a vine will last it a few days unless you are in a desert. The vines might look a bit ragged before they start to regrow. Darned honeymoon getting in the way of your planting at the right time



. They will be growing before you know it!


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## Travisty (Jun 15, 2009)

Good news! Looks like every vine is pushing new buds. It's funny. I feel a bit like a new parent I think. No matter how much people tell me that things are fine, I just can't completely trust them until I see it for myself.




I planted the rooted cuttings a week after the vingoles and they seem to be doing fine as well. In fact, of the ten cutting appleman sent me only one didn't make it. I have the remaining three (I planted six) in pots now. We might plant them in a more decorative location just for kicks.






I do have another question though. Tonight I was inspecting the vines and a couple had what looked kind of like small flies sitting on the shoots. When I waved my hand at them to shoo them off they didn't move though. They seemed dead. I brushed them off and they just fell to the ground. I didn't think to get pictures but I will if I see them again. Any idea what these things might be?


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## grapeman (Jun 15, 2009)

Just a guess, but "dead flies?"






My motto is, if they ain't eating the vine, they must be fine!


I don't try to kill every living thing, so if something isn't botherin the vines a lot I leave it alone. Keep an eye out and if you see holes developing in the leaves, check for the cause. I caught Rose Chafers at work this evening on just the Marquette vines in the "Vine Yard". There were from 6-12 on every vine chewing and mating happily away- some seeming to be doing both at the same time!



I promptly fed them a nice little mix of Sevin and Water as opposed to Seven and Seven drinks.






May they rest in peace...............








Glad the vines are starting to grow. Out of the 1200 or so I planted this year, all are growing in spite of some cut worm action. The ones cut off are growing back just fine.


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## Wade E (Jun 15, 2009)

Awesome Travisty! Man Rich, that was cruel, isnt that called quiteus interuptous!


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## Travisty (Jun 16, 2009)

Hahaha you two are cracking me up!






I like your philosophy on the bugs appleman. I've just never seen dead flies sitting on and hanging from plants before. Of course, I've never really paid a whole lot of attention to plants before either so...


I have noticed a few holes in some leaves though I haven't actually seen any buggers chewing yet. I'll keep an eye out.


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## Travisty (Jun 18, 2009)

I walked outside this morning and checked out my vines and saw this:










The shoot looks like it was broken off. I was moving the soaker hose around last night and I imagine that's how this happened. Needless to say, I'm a little disapointed. Not too much though since, as you can see, there is still another shoot developing. I suppose this just means that more energy will go into root development right!


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## grapeman (Jun 18, 2009)

Geeze you killed it man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Be careful with the Hose! That won't help root development, it will need to replace the lost shoot first to make carbohydrates in the roots. Keep an eye on them, if it wasn't the hose it could have been a cutworm.


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## Travisty (Jun 18, 2009)

Now that you mention it. The hose is on the other side of the stake there. And I know I was really careful moving it too. I really doubt it could have been the hose that broke off that shoot. The break/cut looks very much like the one in this picture I just found:






I'll be on a close watch for cutworms. Would you suggest I do anything more at this time?


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## grapeman (Jun 18, 2009)

Try to find the villain and kill it.Yes, I amseriousl. Take your pointing finger and dig lightly around the base of the vine in an outward pattern. They quite often may be found within inches of the plant just under the soil surface. When you find it squash it! Not a lot can be done to prevent it. With more tender plants you can wrap the stem or place milk cartons (wax paper half gallon) with the bottom and top cut off around them. You need to press them in the soil an inch or so to prevent the cutworms from just tunneling under. Good luck with them. They are usually worse in newly tilled areas.


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## Travisty (Jun 18, 2009)

I imagine I should check around each vine, yes?


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## hannabarn (Jun 18, 2009)

Please don't let PETA see you kill the worm. ala Obama's fly!


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## Travisty (Jun 30, 2009)

Okay finally some pictures!


From my previous post here: http://www.finevinewines.com//Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6095&amp;PN=1, this is the site I decided on.








I did some tilling and what not and ended up with something like this:








That was actually a picture from this year after I had gotten lazy and let the tilled up site get like this:








Okay it was a combination of being lazy and being busy. I just got married in May, so we were busy with preparations for that. Rich was good enough to send me the vines after we got back from our destination wedding/honeymoon in Cape Town, South Africa! Shortly after getting home, this box showed up on my front porch:








I don't think they were very gentle and I'm fairly certain they didn't take the "up arrows" very seriously.



I don't think the vines were too shook up as all of the vingoles bare root vines survived and only one of the ten corot noir rooted cuttings died.


I got everything planted and it now looks like this:








You can't really even see the vinesin that picture, but I assure you they're there.



Here's one of the vingoles vines a few weeks ago:








The three remaining surviving corot noir cuttings I planted in pots out on our back deck:


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## Travisty (Jun 30, 2009)

As for the vine that the suspected cutworm got a hold of, it seems to be surviving yet though it hasn't grown anymore since then.


I never did find the culprit I don't think, but I did find some clear looking caterpillar-like things. I grabbed the chunk of dirt I found them in and snapped some pics before squishing them.


Here's the chunk of dirt:








And here's the best pic I got of the little guys:








Look familiar to anyone?


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## grapeman (Jun 30, 2009)

They are either nematodes or phylloxera. Both of them will be fairly common there. That isn't what cut that vine off. I don't think there is any need to worry over them. 


That location will be quite susceptable to critters eating grapes- probably two legged ones! You may need to post a sign in the future warning of a guard dog on duty. You can get some motion activated recordings!


Look forward to updates.


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## Travisty (Jun 30, 2009)

appleman said:


> That location will be quite susceptable to critters eating grapes- probably two legged ones! You may need to post a sign in the future warning of a guard dog on duty. You can get some motion activated recordings!
> 
> 
> Look forward to updates.




Haha, you're not wrong. In this area of town there's a decent amount of foot traffic too.


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## dragonmaster42 (Jul 1, 2009)

You might see if you can get some Diatomaceous Earth at your garden center. I've used it to control grubs, cut worms, etc in the garden and it worked well. It's also used for pool filtration so sometimes you can find it cheaper in larger quantities at pool places.


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## Waldo (Jul 1, 2009)

dragonmaster42 said:


> You might see if you can get some Diatomaceous Earth at your garden center. I've used it to control grubs, cut worms, etc in the garden and it worked well. It's also used for pool filtration so sometimes you can find it cheaper in larger quantities at pool places.








Another ploy to stop the cutworms is to take a 20 penny nail and just push it down into the dirt right next to the stem of whatever it is you are trying to protect


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## Travisty (Jul 7, 2009)

Well, after a couple weeks I had another shoot beginning to push out on my affected vine. It was looking good and growing quickly. Then I got home from work last night and it was gone. Again. I did another search for the offending creature and still found nothing. In the past couple of weeks, I have seen a couple of what look like cutworms in other parts of my small vineyard. They've been in the aisles though and, of course, I have promptly executed them. Something else I noticed this time is that the remaining tiny little leaf had about 40% of it's area chewed off and that there are a lot of ants around the vine. Is it possible that this is the work of ants, not a cutworm? Some of the rest of my vines showed some leaf damage on early leaves, but all the new growth has been fine so far. Still, part of me is thinking that maybe I should begin spraying for insects.


Should I spray or no? If yes, what should I use? If no, talk me down!


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## AlFulchino (Jul 7, 2009)

i have not heard of ants eating leaves...you could get some double sticky yellow tape to hang hearby..it will catch any travelling insects...or if it is a critter then maybe some of its hairs to tip you off

i have heard of ants nesting in the root area and messing up the root system, but never eating shoots and leaves

if the situation does not afford you the time to catch what it is and determine the next step, then yes indeed i would choose a home owner friendly all purpose insectide...a systemic wold be your best choice

however, i really like to know what it is i am trying to get rid of before i do things like that as it is not a good practice for the environment


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## grapeman (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm not sure if they are where you live or not, but they might be leaf cutter ants.







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leafcutter_ant


I'm not sure how to deal with them, since we don't have them here.


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## Travisty (Jul 7, 2009)

No leafcutters in this area as far as I know. At the very least, the ants I see look nothin like a leafcutter ant. So probably not the ants causing the problem then. I have to think it's a cutworm doing this, but no other vines have been affected. Is that normal to cutworm activity? I'd like to figure this out. If this vine dies on me, I do have the three that are in pots right now and doing well, but I don't want to set one of those out next year only to have the same problem.


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## fivebk (Jul 8, 2009)

Travis , I live just south of you about 45 min. I had trouble with my new vines having the leaves disapear. I found the culprits to be rabbits. One vine they ate all but one leaf off. Since I live in the country I got my rabbit repeller out ( 12 ga ) and the problem was shortly taken care of. You might want to put some cages around them to see if it's varmits not insect critters that are eating your leaves

BOB


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## Travisty (Jul 8, 2009)

We do have a decent amount of rabbits around our place, but both times this vine has been affected I've found the missing laves laying on the ground next to the vine so I don't think it was rabbits.


Unless maybe they're rabbits on a diet!


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## AlFulchino (Jul 8, 2009)

it would be a travesty if they do any more damage.... 

rabbit stew


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## Travisty (Jul 9, 2009)

Al Fulchino said:


> it would be a travesty if they do any more damage....
> 
> rabbit stew


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## R Ziegler (Jul 9, 2009)

You could put up a small wire cage around the vine - which would quickly rule out rabbits, squirrels and deer (if it had a top on it). 
Then if you still have problems - I would set up a video camera and let it run all day while you are away. Since itsounds like it happens during the day while you are gone. 


Since you postd a picture of your vineyard from the street towards your house before - could you use photoshop ormicrosoft paintand place a arrow or circle around which vine it is. Because if it is an outside corner vine - it could be a kid or a neighbor who is walking their dog w/ one of those retractable leashes.


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## Travisty (Jul 9, 2009)

It's actually the vine that is the furthest from the street corner. When this vine is damaged, I do find the leaves that are missing laying on the ground next to the vine. If the pest is human, they're using scissors. If it's a rabbit, it's not eating the leaves and shoots it nips off and it's only going after the one vine.


It seems to me that a cutworm is the most logical suspect. I just wish I could find it! I may have to go ahead and put something down around that vine.


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## Travisty (Jul 9, 2009)

Ruh roh, my first japanese beetle!








Caught this bugger on one of the potted vines onour back deck. When I went to pick it off I accidentally pushed it instead and it fell under the deck. I'll get him next time though!


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## AlFulchino (Jul 9, 2009)

there are certain things that occur in vineyards that mark your career...you are supposed to trap buggers like this...put them in some insect aquarium type of thing and preserve them along w your wine collection 

you have to admit, they are actually a beautiful looking thing


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## grapeman (Jul 9, 2009)

Good idea, but you better have a big aquarium thing to keep them all in. It seems like a nonstop invasion of pests!


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## Travisty (Jul 9, 2009)

You're right Al. The coloring they have is quite beautiful. I don't think I'll be trapping it and keeping it as a pet though.


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## R Ziegler (Jul 10, 2009)

YIKES!!!
Those things are so destructive. The completely de-foliaged my 30 ft tall river birch when I lived in arkansas every year until I found a insecticide that worked really well. 


Seven - works wonders on them - kills them instantly. The first time I sprayed them it sounded like it was raining.


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## Travisty (Aug 3, 2009)

Just thought I'd update withacouple newpics.


The planted vines:






The potted vines:






As you can see, that poor vine in the corner just cannot get a break. Looks like I'll probably have to replace it. Can I replace with one of the potted vines this fall or do I need to wait until next spring to do it?


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## Travisty (Aug 3, 2009)

Oh and BTW, I have yet to spray for anything and yet I have not seen another Japanese Beetle since that one I took a picture of. Seems odd to me.


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## grapeman (Aug 3, 2009)

Go ahead and plant one there now. It will grow as well in the yard as in a pot, probably better. The worst that can happen is you will need to replace it again next spring, but chances are it will do fine.


It seems to be a light Japanese Beetle year. Count your blessings and don't worry about it.


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## AlFulchino (Aug 3, 2009)

its a light jb year here as welll..but heavy on the foliar phylloxera


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## JWMINNESOTA (Aug 4, 2009)

Some good growth going on there for you Travisty. Wont be long and your neighbors will be the biggest pest/threat to your grapes!


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## Travisty (Sep 4, 2009)

What a difference a month makes!


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## grapeman (Sep 4, 2009)

They have started to grow better now Travis. Good going! Is that the original little one in the corner or did you replace it?


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## AlFulchino (Sep 7, 2009)

climb climb climb! looking good.....now get your heart around the idea that you have to trim 80-90% of that away next late winter/early spring


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## Travisty (Sep 8, 2009)

appleman said:


> They have started to grow better now Travis. Good going! Is that the original little one in the corner or did you replace it?




I replaced it. The original just wasn't bouncing back and kept getting chewed up for some reason.


Al, I've been steeling myself to cut away most of the growth in the spring. By then I'll be a hard hearted SOB to those vines!


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## grapeman (Sep 8, 2009)

I thought I recognized him! It's hard to imagine that little vine was a three inch long twig this spring! Good job raising the foster children! I miss them but I know thy all have a good home!


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## Travisty (Sep 10, 2009)

appleman said:


> It's hard to imagine that little vine was a three inch long twig this spring!




You're not wrong!


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## Travisty (Oct 10, 2009)

Ruh roh


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## AlFulchino (Oct 10, 2009)

oh my...whats the prognosis?


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## grapeman (Oct 10, 2009)

Hasn't this been a memorable year?


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## AlFulchino (Oct 10, 2009)

i tell ya what...i some times have trouble finding the right words for situations and this is one of them...the best i can say is that its a travesty....i wish i could do better ...sorry


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## Waldo (Oct 10, 2009)

I feel your pain travesty..Just not in a frozen form here on Thursday though


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## farmer (Oct 11, 2009)

We had an inch of snow Friday night and the forecast is snow tonight and into Monday 2 to 3 inches more, overnight lows 25 degrees. 
This is more like November weather


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## Dean (Oct 11, 2009)

looks like a good year for icewine! I always look for the positive!


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## Travisty (Oct 12, 2009)

It's that dang global warming I tell you!


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## Travisty (Jun 4, 2010)

Wow, it's been a while since I last posted here. I've been pretty heavy into the malt side of the fermenting arts lately! However, I'm not giving up on my vines! All the vines survived winter, though one of them must have been hit pretty hard cause the only new growth I got was from the base of the vine.






Anyways, as I understand it, this second year is for developing the trunk of the vine. So I only allowed one shoot to grow up on each vine. Some of these suckers are really going and they're already to the tops of the stakes. I don't think the stakes are going to be able to hold the weight of the vines for too much longer. I think I'll have to build the trellis this year for sure. However, I'm not real sure how to do that for such a small vineyard. Specifically, I'm not sure how much money I should expect to spend. Most of the info I've found is for much larger vineyards than my puny three 30 ft row guy. What kind of endposts do I need to get? High-tensile wire doesn't seem to be a problem to find but do i really need the $90 gripple tool with the required accesories to tension the wire? Or is there a less expensive option that will work for my short rows?


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## grapeman (Jun 4, 2010)

For that short of rows Travis, I would just put in 3 round posts about 4-6 inches on the small end. Get 8 footers and put 2 feet or so in the ground. You don't need to worry about anchors with the short runs. If you use gripples, you can tighten some without a tool- just use a hammer claw or pliers to pull the wire tight. The wire only goes one way. Fence staples work well to attach the wires to the posts. 


Good luck and good to see you again.


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## Travisty (Jun 4, 2010)

Thanks Appleman, that's good to know about the gripples. I suppose I could pull them tight enough by hand for my short rows huh? Thanks for the advice on the posts too. I was hoping that I wouldn't need the anchors and all that for these guys!


I shot a quick picture of the vineyard today. The two vines with cages around them kept getting trimmed back by rabbits or some other critter so I decided to protect them.


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## Travisty (Jul 16, 2010)

Ok so I now have most of my posts set up. I would have them all set up but digging two ft deep holes in this soil and heat is really hard!









Anyhoo, with all the rain we've had this year so far (~23 in. vs an average of ~17in.) the vines are growing way too big for the stakes so I've ordered supplies to finish the trellising. I've been doing some reading on trellis systems and it appears that traditional thinking says I should use VSP? According to double A vineyards (http://www.rakgrape.com/pdf_files/2009-2010-VineVariety.pdf) Carot Noir has a semi-upright growth habit and vingoles has an upright growth habit which indicates a VSP style trellis need right?


If that's correct then I'm curious about the catch wires. It looks like the catch wires need to be moveable. I'm not clear on why that is. Why can't I keep the catch wires in a permanent position and just train the shoots up to them? Assuming that I'm missing something here, how doI setup the wires so that they are easily moveable?


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## grapeman (Jul 16, 2010)

For your small vineyard, VSP will work fine with permenat catch wires. With moveable ones, you can sweep the canes up and into it all at once making it quicker, but it is a lot more work setting it up that way. Just use your sets of catch wires to train the shoots up through as they grow.


Glad they are growing well.


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## Travisty (Jul 16, 2010)

Very cool. Do I understand it correctly that I want to run the catch wires in pairs with one wire of each pair on either side of the posts? If that's correct, what's the purpose for that?


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## grapeman (Jul 16, 2010)

It gives you an area to just put the shoots up through. The tendrils hold the shoot in place. If you use just one wire, you need to fasten the shoots to the wires, adding a lot of work, but it can be done.


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## OilnH2O (Jul 16, 2010)

Your point about digging reminds me of when I put in my posts in the Missoula vineyard -- on those hot days it was about 2 hours per post and some days it was only one post a day!




Old gravel/cobbles everywhere! 

As one of our former prez's said, "I feel your pain!"


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## AlFulchino (Jul 16, 2010)

sounds like a call for raised beds


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## Travisty (Jul 16, 2010)

OilnH2O said:


> Your point about digging reminds me of when I put in my posts in the Missoula vineyard -- on those hot days it was about 2 hours per post and some days it was only one post a day!
> 
> 
> 
> ...








No gravel/cobbles for me, just hard clay and random rocks. In fact I found an old beer bottle about a foot down in one of the post locations!


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