# Is there such a thing as too large a primary



## theTheme (Jan 16, 2014)

I'm getting a second primary bucket and I can't decide what size to get. I have a 2 gallon that came with my kit, but I'm already thinking about making larger batches. My thought process was to buy one large enough to make the largest quantity of wine that I might want to make in the future (get a least a 6 gallon in case I want to make kit wine, but then hey, why not get a 7.9 gallon in case the kit makes 6 gallons of wine?).

So my question is, aside from the practical inconvenience of having a huge bucket with potentially a small amount of liquid in it, will this harm a primary fermentation? Are their concerns with air, surface area exposed, falling headfirst into a 7.9 gallon bucket?


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 16, 2014)

I have 2 25 gallon vats...and have made as little as 12 gallons in it as a primary...To me the primary means just a vessel to hold what I will later rack to a smaller holding tank.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 17, 2014)

I would start with a 6 gallon carboy if you are planning on making larger batches of wine. 
Once fermentation is complete, unless you are planning on putting your wine (usually reds) through Malolactic fermentation (MLF), you need to rack to a carboy that is appropriate for the volume of the wine that you are racking, leaving as little head space as possible, usually 2 inches or so, and stabilize your wine with Potassium Metabisulfite (Meta) in order to prevent spoilage.
Too much head space spells disaster, I recommend a glass carboy as the "secondary", oxygen can permeate through plastic buckets.

Eventually, like most of us, you'll start to accumulate all sorts of carboys, I have a few 3 gallon carboys, all sorts of 5 gallon carboys, and a boat load of 6 gallon carboys, not to mention a half dozen 30 liter fermenters , a few 10 gallon fermenters, a 20 gallon and 32 gallon brutes


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## garymc (Jan 19, 2014)

You're asking about primary fermentation buckets, not carboys, right? If you're making a batch that starts with 5 or 6 gallons of must, you'll have to have a big bucket or a vigorous fermentation might bubble over. The 7.9 gallon bucket is pretty standard. The headspace in the bucket doesn't matter so much as long as there's a vigorous fermentation going.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 19, 2014)

I dont think the size of primary matter much...I have done 6 gallon in a 10, and a 12 in a 25 gallon....I use what i can depending on what does not contain wine at the time of need.


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## Simpsini (Jan 19, 2014)

I agree with the others. The 7.9 gal bucket will give you room to stir without worrying about spilling over the sides. It also allows for any foaming that might occur. I have used mine for 3 Gal batches of port and it works fine. 

Tom is correct: Size matters when it comes to the carboy and the amount of headspace. 

Dave


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## WineYooper (Jan 22, 2014)

I found that I didn't have enough room in my 7.9 gal primary when making 6 gal batches of cranberry or apple for all the fruit even after pressing. I invested in a 10 gal primary and use for these instead. I found it makes it much easier to stir when fermenting holding the fruit out of the way.


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## WI_Wino (Jan 22, 2014)

> Is there such a thing as too large a primary



No, just not enough enough wine in your primary!

(someone had to say it!)


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## jojabri (Jan 22, 2014)

I was pondering on buying maybe 2 of those large blue food-grade barrels for primaries on things of larger batches. Found some at a local flea market for $15. My only issue is that they take up so much space. It already looks like Dr. Crazy's science lab up in my kitchen!


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## ckvchestnut (Jan 22, 2014)

I'm considering a 20 gal brute can but I need to know if you can rack out to carboys easily from the ground? I can't imagine trying to hoist that up full of wine?


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## cimbaliw (Jan 22, 2014)

I encourage you to consider a 10 gallon BRUTE trash can. The extra 2.2gallons over a 7.8 gallon primary can save a lot of spills and splashes. Check this link out.


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## ckvchestnut (Jan 22, 2014)

cimbaliw said:


> I encourage you to consider a 10 gallon BRUTE trash can. The extra 2.2gallons over a 7.8 gallon primary can save a lot of spills and splashes. Check this link out.




Not sure I understand your post? Was that meant for me? I already have a 10 gal can, maybe 12gal. The 20gal can would be so i could do 14-18 gals at once and rack to my demijohn or my 6 gal carboys...


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## ckvchestnut (Jan 22, 2014)

Oops I see that wasn't meant for me sorry guys! Do u rack large batches from the floor? They need a trolly with a jack on it!


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## WI_Wino (Jan 22, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Oops I see that wasn't meant for me sorry guys! Do u rack large batches from the floor? They need a trolly with a jack on it!



I start by placing the empty Brute on some cinder blocks. Then add in the must. Most of it can be siphoned out since it's elevated. When it gets to the end it's easy enough to lift as needed (for me anyway)


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## Deezil (Jan 22, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> I already have a 10 gal can, maybe 12gal. *The 20gal can would be so i could do 14-18 gals at once and rack to my demijohn or my 6 gal carboys... *




When you're making a 10-12 gallon batch, and there's 100-150+ lbs of fruit.. I've filled up my 33-gallon trash can, more than I was comfortable with


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## ckvchestnut (Jan 23, 2014)

WI_Wino said:


> I start by placing the empty Brute on some cinder blocks. Then add in the must. Most of it can be siphoned out since it's elevated. When it gets to the end it's easy enough to lift as needed (for me anyway)




Thanks why the heck didn't i think of that l! Lol!

Deezil: ya this would be for a varying combo of fruit concentrate vs fruit pks and not to overfill brute can


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## cronos1013 (Jan 27, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> Thanks why the heck didn't i think of that l! Lol!
> 
> Deezil: ya this would be for a varying combo of fruit concentrate vs fruit pks and not to overfill brute can




Another solution would be to use a vacuum pump of some kind to get it from your primary container into your carboys for secondary/aging. 

The All In One Wine Pump is amazing for the money here, and if you cheat a bit and use a larger tube/racking cane to go from the primary container into your carboy (need to drill out the rubber bung they give you just a bit) then you can vacuum up even some fairly large solids without clogging. 

Chris


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## ckvchestnut (Jan 27, 2014)

Ya that will be in my plans sometime in the future!


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## Turock (Jan 27, 2014)

A couple years in a row we processed 2000# of grapes. So that required several 32 gal brutes. But we have a couple 10 and 20 gal brutes for smaller ferments. What we do is set up saw horses with plywood in order to get them off the floor so we can gravity siphon out of them. We also found a great round table with a formica top and folding legs that someone threw out because one of the legs was broken. We picked it up and took over to my brother who brazed the leg back together for us. That table comes in REALLY handy during wine season--we use it every year!! Keep your eye open for good junk!


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## Floandgary (Jan 27, 2014)

So if you don't want to have large vessels around, then just make smaller batches! I started with a WE kit and have reused the bucket numerous times content with what I can get in it.. Have bought a lot of juices in the 6 gal buckets and they as well work just fine. Smaller batches (up to 6 gal) will keep you busy with more varieties plus they are more manageable!!


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## ckvchestnut (Jan 27, 2014)

The large vessels are really helpful for fruit wine makers even for the 6gal batches because you need so much fruit to make the wine, it takes up way more space than just 6gals of juice from buckets or kit wines. I have so many 6gal fermenters and I rarely use them, I'll use them if I get a kit or straight juice buckets and I use them when doing smaller batches of fruit wine like 1 or 3 gals plus the fruit.


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## cintipam (Jan 27, 2014)

Great link climbaliw. I had recently discovered that Home Depot has raised the price of the Brute 20 gallon to be in line with what others are selling them for. Also raised the price on the 10 gallon. By following your link to prior discussion then the link there that FrankieIce provided I found that Amazon has the 10 gallons available at a great price right now. By buying 2 and 2 lids, and throwing in another hard to find item I needed to order anyway I got free shipping. White cans are $13.02, red and yellow even a couple bucks cheaper. I did doublecheck the food grade list, and they are on it. The lids I bought might not be high end food grade, but they fit well and will just be to lock in the CO2 once I install airlock holes (with grommet of course) in them.

Thanks so much, as I was ready to bite the bullet and spend a lot more for one a couple gallons smaller.

Pam in cinti


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## derunner (Feb 9, 2014)

Great Thread. I just ordered a 10 and 20 gallon from Amazon after pricing at Home Depot. I'll be making some cranberry wine and skeeterpee in them soon.


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## vacuumpumpman (Feb 9, 2014)

I read this thread and what came to the front of my mind was swimming pool !!

Allright I have come back to my senses now - but that would be cool !!!!


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## derunner (Feb 10, 2014)

My 20 gal Brute arrived today. I also ordered a 10gal and a lid for each. I figured the lids would help keep them clean if nothing else, but does anyone use them when they ferment? I figure they are not air tight so I might still cover with a towel and I would rack to secondary at 1.010 instead of going dry in the Brute like I often do in a bucket with an airlock. My concern with just using a towel is they all smell like laundry detergent and dryer sheets. I doubt I want that covering my primary. Is there something else I should cover these primaries with now that they are wider across than my old primary?

I was going to start 12 gallons of skeeterpee. Do you think I should make 12 at once or split it into 2 batches. I still need to rack to 2 6 gallon carboys for secondary.


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## Scott (Feb 12, 2014)

Derunner I just set the lid on it to keep out critters and stuff, a little more rigid than a towel. Might as well make a 12 gal batch then into 2- 6 gal you can add anything if wanting two different styles.

Good luck


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## derunner (Feb 15, 2014)

I'm curious how full anyone has filled their 20 gal Brute while fermenting? I just marked it tonight with various gals that I might get to with 5 and 6 gallon carboys available for secondary. I am sure 12 gals would be not be too full. For something that is all juice or skeeterpee, I am wondering if I could safely make 16 gals. That leaves about 4 inches to the top. 16 gals of skeeterpee would let me rack to 2 5gals and 1 6 gal carboys. 

What about fruit wines. How full would you fill a 20 gal with fruit and juice?

Thanks for your recommendations.


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## jojabri (Feb 15, 2014)

My mom and dad bought me this as a valentines day gift. It holds 15 gallons, perfect for what i need in a primary. I'm gonna go pick up a few more seeing as they were only $10. Considering putting a spigot attachment. Either way I like it!


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 15, 2014)

jojabri said:


> My mom and dad bought me this as a valentines day gift. It holds 15 gallons, perfect for what i need in a primary. I'm gonna go pick up a few more seeing as they were only $10. Considering putting a spigot attachment. Either way I like it!




I like that! Where did it come from?


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## WI_Wino (Feb 15, 2014)

For sure, more details are required! What recycling number is on the plastic?


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## sour_grapes (Feb 15, 2014)

derunner said:


> I'm curious how full anyone has filled their 20 gal Brute while fermenting? I just marked it tonight with various gals that I might get to with 5 and 6 gallon carboys available for secondary. I am sure 12 gals would be not be too full. For something that is all juice or skeeterpee, I am wondering if I could safely make 16 gals. That leaves about 4 inches to the top. 16 gals of skeeterpee would let me rack to 2 5gals and 1 6 gal carboys.
> 
> What about fruit wines. How full would you fill a 20 gal with fruit and juice?
> 
> Thanks for your recommendations.



Don't forget to put your primary up on a bench or chair or something, so that you can rack out of it. (Obviously, I am assuming that you will siphon out of it; if you have a vacuum pump, you can ignore my advice!)


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## jojabri (Feb 15, 2014)

ckvchestnut said:


> I like that! Where did it come from?



Found at a local peddler's mall



WI_Wino said:


> For sure, more details are required! What recycling number is on the plastic?



HDPE 2


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## nayrea143 (Mar 24, 2014)

I have my eye on a red fermentation tank that my local place sells. It's 110 liters so 29.72 gallons. and u can add a spigot and filter in front of the spigot. It's only 35.50. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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