# First Time Red Wine - Degass?



## Grancru (Mar 18, 2011)

This fall (9/26/10) I crushed 6 cases of Cabernet Sovereign grapes, fermented, pressed and the result was 23 gals. of wine. 

It has been bulk aging ever since in 2 - 5 gal and 2 - 6 gal carboys. Nothing has been added and so far it tastes great.

Should I degass the wine with a power drill now? If so for how long? I have never degassed before? 

Should I add anything to it while it bulk ages for another 6 months or so before bottling? I want the best possible outcome.

Any/all thought appreciated.


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## grapeman (Mar 18, 2011)

Were these cabernet sauvignon? Do you have any prefermentation test numbers or post fermentation numbers? Have you considered malolactic fermentation? Have you racked it off the lees? Lots of questions I know, but you didn't give us enough information to go on.


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## Wade E (Mar 18, 2011)

I agree with Grapeman on a lot of missing info here. Im guessing that you havent added any sulfites since this wine has finished fermenting? If thats the case I would do so now at the rate of 1/4 tsp per every 5 gallons.


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## grapeman (Mar 18, 2011)

Unless you plan on doing mlf. In that case do it now and sulfite when it has been confirmed as completed. 



By the way, I am Appleman here Wade. So confusing!


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## ibglowin (Mar 18, 2011)

Hahahahahahahaha......

That was funny!

You probably don't need to degas with fresh grapes as the act of pressing releases the CO2. 

That said its unprotected so if your not going to do MLF then sulfite it ASAP!


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## Wade E (Mar 18, 2011)

Then who the heck is Rich????? You be quiet over there applegrape! Im looking at the date this was started and just thinking hed better get some sulfite on this now and forget about MLF which it probably went through on its own anyhow. Appleman is absolutely right that if you want to do MLF dont use sulfites because sulfites hinder or prevent malo lactic fermentation at higher levels and without testing I wouldnt even try adding any sulfites if attempting to try MLF.


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## Dean (Mar 19, 2011)

have you ever tried a grapple? It's a grape tasting apple!
http://www.grapplefruits.com/


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## Bartman (Mar 19, 2011)

Apart from the silliness of the fruitcakes above




, I doubt you will need to de-gas very much, since you have bulk-aged it for 6 months or so, but you probably should have a go at it anyway. If it has largely de-gassed on its own like my wines do, you will probably have a hard time telling if you are accomplishing anything. As long as you sanitize everything and don't go at it for more than 10-15 minutes, you can't do any harm.

If you will be continuing to bulk age it for several more months, you can probably get away without de-gassing at all, as any trapped CO2 will escape on its own eventually. You should taste enough to see if it has any "fizz" to it.


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## Grancru (Mar 19, 2011)

These Cabernet Sauvignon grapes. I do not have any OG readings or prefermentation test 
numbers or but the FG was 1.00 when I racked it off the lees. I let it sit for another month and racked it again.

I have never done a malolactic 
fermentation and was simply following what the old Italians told me to do that sold the grapes. I am begining to see there may be a lot more I should be doing but need some direction.
None of this was necessary with he Meads I make.

So, I should degass for 10-15 mins and add add sulfite at the rate of 1/4 tsp per every 5 gallons?

What about malolactic 
fermentation? What is the process and should I do it at this stage?

There is no fizz to the taste.

Thanks for all the help!


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## grapeman (Mar 19, 2011)

Since these are whole grapes as opposed to a kit and you pressed them and there is no fizz, you probably don't need to degas it. Kits need it, often grapes don't. I would just sulfite it with the k-meta and would probably go a bit over 1/4 tsp- maybe 3/8 since you have not yet added any. Also cab sauv tends to be a bit higher in pH, which uses more sulfite to bring the free S02 up. I would forget the malolactic fermentation at this point and just sulfite it. I would rack first and then sulfite. Let ist sit for a while , oak if you wish if you haven't yet and then bottle when you are satisfied with the taste.


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## Wade E (Mar 19, 2011)

As said above Im a little concerned about the amount of time its been since fermentation has finished so IMO Id sulfite this wine to keep it protected. Mlf could have already happened as like fermentation can happen naturally. Id rack this wine into clean sanitized carboys and sulfite at the rate of 1/4 tsp per every 5-6 gallons. If you want to try MLF then youll need to pick up a malo lactic culture and add it to your wine and then you will really want to get a test kit to check when it will be done. Chromatography testing is the best to test to see when MLf is finished so that you can add sulfite when MLF is done. Below is a link to a malo lactic culture that you can add to your wine.
http://www.finevinewines.com/p-118-wlp790.aspx


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## Grancru (Mar 19, 2011)

So I should rack into clean, sanitized carboys and add Potassium Metasorbate at the rate of 1/4 tsp per every 5-6 gallons.
Should this be vigorously mixed in or gently?


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## Grancru (Mar 19, 2011)

Potassium Metabisulfite


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## Grancru (Mar 19, 2011)

One of my four carboys has a white yeast film on it. Should I keep this wine seperate from the others or is it ok to mix them when racking and adding the sulfite?


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## Wade E (Mar 19, 2011)

Potassium Metabisulfite! yes, keep that one batch separate as its most likely has an infection starting so get that one sulfited immediately. You dont have to go nuts as IMO this wine is degassed from the pressing and also from bulk aging. The one wine with the white film can most likely be saved by gently racking and leaving as much of that film behind. Thus infections is most likely due to 2 things, 1 being that it hasnt been sulfited and 2 being most likely that this batch wasnt topped up properly or possibly that the vessel or tools used to make this wine were not properly sanitized. I would skip any thoughts of MLF knowing this problem and get the sulfite in there ASAP!


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## Grancru (Mar 19, 2011)

What is the mixing process? Do I just pour it in and let it do it's work or do I mix it and if so how much?


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## fivebk (Mar 19, 2011)

Just give it a good stir till you are sure the K-Meta has been dispersed through the wine completely.

BOB


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## Wade E (Mar 19, 2011)

I just dissolve the k-meta into a small amount of warm water and put in sanitized carboy and then rack wine onto it.


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## Grancru (Mar 19, 2011)

I poured a 1/4 teaspoon into the bottom of a sanitized carboy and racked my first three onto it.

I will now do the infected one with much greater care.

Thanks for all the help and hopefully I'll save these last 5 gals.


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## grapeman (Mar 19, 2011)

It should be fine after racking and sulfiting. I would definitely bump the amount on at least that one to 3/8 teaspoon. You need a bit more sulfite to ensure it is adequately protected from a possible infection. 


I also mix the sulfite with a small amount of water (like 20 ml), stir that and dump in the carboy and then rack onto it. Works for me as it will mix while racking into it.


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## Randoneur (Mar 19, 2011)

Are you going to oak - what oak are you going to use - chip or cubes or spirals - how much?


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## Grancru (Mar 19, 2011)

I would like to oak but again this is my first time so I am open to suggestions as to what I should try.

I bought a Coopers Select 225 liter "Vintage" Bordeaux - medium toast barrel which I will use this fall

Great Oak Products:
http://www.xtraoak.com/US/XTRAOAK/index.html</span>


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## Wade E (Mar 19, 2011)

You can absolutely oak it right now. Personally Id use either Staves, cubes, or Spirals. Id go with medium American or Hungarian with this


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## Grancru (Mar 23, 2011)

How much French or American oak chips (medium toast) should go into a 5-6 gal carboy and for approx how long?
They come in 1 lb bags for $9.99.


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## ibglowin (Mar 24, 2011)

I would go with Hungarian Oak Cubes 3OZ for 6 gallons for a couple of months at least. Taste along the way.

The chips will extract faster but you will have to use a boat load of them to get the same oak levels as the cubes. The med toast is the most common included in big red kits.


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## Grancru (Mar 29, 2011)

I picked up some Hungarian (medium) from LD Carlson. Does anyone know if there are sterile or should they be soaked in a sanitizer before adding to the wine?


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## Flem (Mar 29, 2011)

I've heard various answers to this question, but most will tell you to use them the way they came -- without sanitizing.


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## Grancru (Mar 29, 2011)

Great because I had already put cubes in two of the four before I thought about it and now the balance are now being sanitized for a few minutes.


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## ibglowin (Mar 29, 2011)

+1

Good to go!


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## Grancru (Apr 16, 2011)

Ok, so I oaked about two weeks ago and now all 4 carboys have a white waxy looking substance floating in with the cubes. Are they all infected now from the cubes? What should I do here?


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## Wade E (Apr 16, 2011)

When was the last time this wine was sulfited and or tested for S02? Can you post a pic?


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## Grancru (Apr 16, 2011)

I sulfited on or about March 19th.
I have photos but don't know how to post them here.


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## Grancru (Apr 16, 2011)

Never tested for S02. Don't have equipment to do so.


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## Grancru (Apr 16, 2011)

Photos:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=1824022572529&amp;id=1599196105&amp;aid=97072&amp;l=30ec922288</font>


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## Wade E (Apr 16, 2011)

That looks like a mold forming, You need to keep sulfite levels with wine to a norm so not testing and keeping them up will turn into this but also if anything like fruit or oak is just left above the wine it will also form mold. I would gently rack through the oak there and into a sanitized vessel and sulfite your wine good. I would buy a S02 test kit so you can achieve a decent S02 level on this wine. You will want to be on the upper scale to kill this infection!


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## grapeman (Apr 16, 2011)

That is pretty nasty looking. It does look like mold to me. How much headspace do you have in there? If you have adequate S02, that should not be growing in there. Do like Wade said and rack it, add proper sulfite and hopefully it will be alright.


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## Grancru (Apr 17, 2011)

It is mold. I am about to rack and it was suggested I put 1/2 teaspoon of _Potassium Metabisulfite _to each 5-6 gal carboy. Does this sound about right?
I will be heading to the brew store once they open to get a S02 tester. Should I wait or have at it and add the 1/2 teaspoon when racking?

Re-sanitize the oak and continue oaking?


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## grapeman (Apr 17, 2011)

1/2 tsp is a bit steep but you have a severe problem there so it is not out of line. I would probably go with 3/8 tsp myself per 6 gallon.


I don't think I would chance it by using that oak again. It isn't that expensive. If you think it needs more I would get fresh.


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## Wade E (Apr 17, 2011)

Totally agree with above post! Except for a barrel i would never reuse oak with the exception of using it to smoke some meat!!!!


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