# Marquette Grape?



## tbayav8er

Hi Everyone,

I live in Winnipeg, Canada where the winters can be as cold as -40. The University of Minnesota apparently developed this grape varietal called the Marquette. It seems there are a few Wineries in the Northern States producing wine from these grapes, and apparently have pretty good success. Anyone here ever make wine from these grapes? If so, how did it turn out?

Also, I bought one of these grape plants at my local greenhouse. The dormant vine is about 2 feet tall, with several buds coming from the main stem. Should I trim the stem down after planing?

I have a small property, with my front yard facing South towards a rather busy street, and I don't to have my vine too close to the sidewalk. I will probably till some soil right along side the front of my house, and construct a wire trellis there. Are there any disadvantages of growing the grape vine along side the house? 

How many grape clusters are typically required to produce 1 gallon of wine? Also, after a 3 years or so with proper pruning each Spring, how many clusters could I typically expect to harvest from one plant?

Any other tips are greatly appreciated as well!

Thanks


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## TonyR

From what i have heard and read about Marquettes is that they are good to about -5 to -10 below, colder than that the vines die back to the ground. I grow Petite Pearl have had -25 below and no problems. If it is growing in a pot and things are alive i wouldn't trim anything, you will get this years growth from those buds. I would say 5 to 7 pounds to make a gal. Pick off any fruit flowers for the first few years, need all energy for the vine and roots.


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## ibglowin

My Marquette survived -22F for 3 days straight the first Winter they went into. They did not die back to the ground. YMMV.


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## sour_grapes

tbayav8er said:


> I live in Winnipeg, Canada where the winters can be as cold as -40.




C or F?   

(In case it was not obvious, my question was just a joke.)


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## grapeman

Tony you have heard or at least recalled incorrectly. It is listed as hardy to -35F. Unhardened wood will die back on shoot ends, but generally gets pruned off anyways. The one vine will make around one gallon of wine when it is 3 to 4 years old. It takes around 15 pounds of Marquette to make a gallon of finished wine. You need 4 to 5 clusters per pound of Marquette so about 60 to 75 clusters per gallon. I have gotten as high as 25 pounds per vine on 3 year old vines before but prefer to take 12 to 15 pounds to ensure the shoots harden adequately for winter hardiness.

The wine it makes can be excellent resembling a heavy Pinot Noir. Recently a friend of mine received Best of Show Red in the Finger Lakes International Competition and others near me typically take best reds in international cold climate competitions in Minnesota. I make it commercially and it is one of the best selling reds I make.

I would keep the vine a couple feet away from the house to allow a good airflow to dry the vine. Although somewhat disease resistant it can get black rot, mildews and botrytis so the airflow helps with that.


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## TonyR

Ok my bad, my first picking (3 rd year) of Petite Pearl picked 2, 5 gal buckets of grapes ended up with 3 gal of wine. Just didnt seem that heavy. The Vines was from another forum ( winepress.us)were a bunch of people were pulling them out because of die back.à


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## grapeman

Tony I am not singling you out here but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there affecting people's decisions. I have read about people taking out Marquette and others seem to be jumping on the bandwagon telling about it. I have had one vine die that split out of thousands of Marquette I grow. Even that one didn't die completely and has grown back. Because of research I have done here I have pushed cropping levels way beyond recommended rates with yields up to 40 pounds per vine. These are actual weighed yields to tenth pounds. I have counted clusters per vine and computed cluster weight. I have calculated berry weight while taking juice samples as the grapes ripened. 

I have had friends tell about losing Marquette vines but you rarely hear the back story of what caused it. Having a cold winter and some vines dieing back it is easy to assume it was because they aren't hardy enough. Checking some one time it was discovered the grower had use a weed eater around them and girdled the vines. Another one had horrible black rot and mildew which severly weakened the vines and left them vulnerable. Then there are rodents which girdle the vines and kill them to the ground. The point is that yes the vines may have died back but what was the true cause?

One important consideration with Marquette is the early bud break. It breaks early and can leave it susceptible to spring freezes. Ones that get hard hit have more die back than other varieties such as Frontenac. While these newer varieties have opened new areas up to grape growing, not everywhere is WELL suited to doing so.

TBAYAV8ER the -40 C or F may just be too low for this variety and most others unless you want to protect them.


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## tbayav8er

sour_grapes said:


> C or F?
> 
> (In case it was not obvious, my question was just a joke.)




Lol, good one....It gets to about -35C here, but I was too lazy to figure out the conversion so I rounded down to -40


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## tbayav8er

grapeman said:


> Tony I am not singling you out here but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence out there affecting people's decisions. I have read about people taking out Marquette and others seem to be jumping on the bandwagon telling about it. I have had one vine die that split out of thousands of Marquette I grow. Even that one didn't die completely and has grown back. Because of research I have done here I have pushed cropping levels way beyond recommended rates with yields up to 40 pounds per vine. These are actual weighed yields to tenth pounds. I have counted clusters per vine and computed cluster weight. I have calculated berry weight while taking juice samples as the grapes ripened.
> 
> I have had friends tell about losing Marquette vines but you rarely hear the back story of what caused it. Having a cold winter and some vines dieing back it is easy to assume it was because they aren't hardy enough. Checking some one time it was discovered the grower had use a weed eater around them and girdled the vines. Another one had horrible black rot and mildew which severly weakened the vines and left them vulnerable. Then there are rodents which girdle the vines and kill them to the ground. The point is that yes the vines may have died back but what was the true cause?
> 
> One important consideration with Marquette is the early bud break. It breaks early and can leave it susceptible to spring freezes. Ones that get hard hit have more die back than other varieties such as Frontenac. While these newer varieties have opened new areas up to grape growing, not everywhere is WELL suited to doing so.
> 
> TBAYAV8ER the -40 C or F may just be too low for this variety and most others unless you want to protect them.



Thanks for all the info, grapeman! It's quite rare for the temps to get to -40....Usually the coldest is about -30C. -40 windchill is pretty common. Could I PM you a picture of the grape plant I bought, and the wire trellis I made, and maybe get some tips on how to train it? Cheers!


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## grapeman

Just go ahead and post the picture here and I will comment as time allow- trying to finish this years pruning so I don't have a lot of time for computer work right now since the buds are beginning to burst. PM doesn't allow for including pictures yet although it is planned for the near future.


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## tbayav8er

grapeman said:


> Just go ahead and post the picture here and I will comment as time allow- trying to finish this years pruning so I don't have a lot of time for computer work right now since the buds are beginning to burst. PM doesn't allow for including pictures yet although it is planned for the near future.


 
I just finished putting it in the ground. Here's what I got. Any suggestions? 

Cheers


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## grapeman

To quickly summarize for you, just let the vine grow this year. Leave all or most of the growth growing. This creates a good strong root system with plenty of food reserves. Then next spring before growth begins, prune back to just a few buds. This gives a more vigorous faster growing vine to establish a trunk. Then I would suggest you train it to a high wire training system like Top Wire Cordon (although you may train new canes each year ) to become your fruit producing region. We will get into that more as you are ready for it. Keep the vines healthy for this year and weed around it or mulch it to keep weed competition down.


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## barbiek

grapeman said:


> Just go ahead and post the picture here and I will comment as time allow- trying to finish this years pruning so I don't have a lot of time for computer work right now since the buds are beginning to burst. PM doesn't allow for including pictures yet although it is planned for the near future.



Besides this we can all learn from the question and answer


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## barbiek

Wouldn't air circulation be a problem that close to the wall? Don't mean to hijack this thread but just curious


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## grapeman

Yes being that close to the wall will limit air movement however in this case it might be a good thing. That wall has quite a bit of thermal mass so it will help give the vine some protection from extreme weather which will hopefully offset the negatives.


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## NorthSlopeVineyard

*My experience with Marquette*

I planted 32 Marquette in 2013 on a 7 degree south facing slope in south central Montana, zone 5a/4b.

Our coldest temp has been -24 and -26 F in two different winters, after sufficient hardening, and I have had no winter damage.

My first crop, after barely surviving the raccoons, was harvested last autumn at 26 brix and 3.4 pH.

The marquette come ripe with several reliable weeks of warm season each fall. The biggest problem is the early bud break. Being on the rocky mountain front, we get late spring frosts. May 15 wouldn't be that weird. This year was MAy 6. The marquette break out around April 25 every year. I used heavy watering to prevent frost damage, but I believe it effected my fruit set, which is only fair. 

My climate is very different than MN or the northeast where we see this grown more often. Being on the Rocky Mountain Front, our weather is very dry. We only average 12 inches of rain a year. The vines are carefully irrigated.

I've also planted a few petite pearl. They seem to do everything (break out, veraision, ripening) about 10 days later than marquette. The fruit set is dramatically better due to not having the frost risk.

Grapeman has provided a lot of valuable info on a lot of forums, so thank you. Just thought I'd add my $.02


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## tbayav8er

Thanks for all the feedback! 

An update - The vine is growing like crazy. It's growing nicely along the wire trellis I made. The main stem is getting nice and thick, so I'm hoping there is some pretty good root growth happening. Will post a picture later in the summer. It's in my front yard, which faces straight South, so it is in direct sunlight pretty much all day. We have had a fairly wet summer as well, which has been good. No grapes at all, since I took the advice given previously, and didn't do any trimming all summer. Just trying to maximize root growth this summer. Hopefully the roots will be fairly close to the foundation of the house, and the soil around the roots will stay somewhat warmer because of the house.


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## spaniel

Indiana is a tough place for reds. We can get very cold winters so we need the NY/MN varieties unless you like re-planting every 5-7 years. Cayuga has produced excellent for me but I've also had to go into the vineyard with a chainsaw once in 10 years to cut everything off at ground level due to -15F temps killing it down.

I have 5 year old Marquette. My only complaint is that, in this climate, the soil seems a bit rich for it and it is definitely more black rot susceptible than anything else I grow. 2015 was an exceptionally wet July, and I had total loss to black rot despite my efforts to control it. I would have had an awesome yield this year had my work schedule allowed me to get the bird nets on in time….


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## tbayav8er

Hi Everyone,

So, we got an insane amount of snow this year here in Winnipeg. In the summer, my Marquette grape vine grew lots of leaves, I took the advice not to prune it at all during the summer just to allow it to get maximum root growth. 

With all of this heavy snow dumping on it, the delicate growth broke off. Is this going to be an issue in the Spring. I imagine in the Spring, I should cut it back quite a bit anyways?


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## grapeman

Yes it should be pruned back to one main shoot or two at most if you want two trunks. You don't want the delicate growth anyways. Often the spring after planting you prune back to 2 or 3 buds which puts all that stored energy in the roots into growing nice strong trunks.


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## tbayav8er

Here is a picture of the grape plant now after a very harsh Winnipeg winter. Is it toast?


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## grapeman

Give it a while to see if buds start swelling. Snow is a good thing and helps insulate the buds, but it doesn't look very healthy to me. If the buds swell then I would prune it back to a few of them and let one become the trunk.

Also try and upload pictures in an upright position. If they are the wrong way on your computer you can get a utility that lets you rotate the, like I did for you.


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## ibglowin

You might want to remove all the grass around the vine for a good 24" diameter. As it is now the vine is fighting for every ounce of moisture and nutrient it can get with that grass.


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## tbayav8er

Hi Everyone, just looking for some advice on how to prune this vine! This is how it looks right now, now that winter is over. Thanks!


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## ibglowin

How tall is that top wire? Looks to be too low. Should be ore like 5' off the ground for Marquette. I would also get your trunk tied up to the support better. I am not seeing much to prune at the moment. Perhaps just those two extra shoots. That vine is really struggling. its been in the ground 3 years now!


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## tbayav8er

Thanks! This is what I did today:


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## ibglowin

Looks better. I would remove the grass around the base of the vine. The grass will suck up water and nutrients that the vine needs. Do you fertilize in the spring/summer? That would help as well.


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## bumblebeetuna




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## bumblebeetuna

Marquette in Indiana are alive!!


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## spaniel

We hit at least -13F here near Indy over the winter; I was worried. But my Cayuga survived so I expected the Marquette to do so. 

I did not have time to get in the vineyard repeatedly and check progress and only got everything pruned last week. But the Marquette survived, albeit with I'd say moderate damage. I am glad a double trunked them as I had to cut out some entire trunks and had a lot of branches which died off entirely.

I'm glad it wasn't worse, I made my first Marquette wine from last fall's harvest, and it is the best red I have made to date.


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## bumblebeetuna

Hurray for Marquette (on the right)


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## tbayav8er

Alright here it is so far. I did some trimming today, and this is what it looks like now....Any tips??


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## ibglowin

1) Remove all clusters for this year.
2) Remove all foliage from the ground up to at least the top of the foundation (light/dark grey line on house).
3) Get a heavier pole that can be inserted at least 6-9" into the ground and goes at least 6-12" above your top wire and then secure the vine to the pole in several places with growers tape tied loosely.
4) Remove all grass around the bottom the of the vine so that the vine doesn't have to compete with the grass for water and nutrients. Keep the grass out. Do not let it grow back in.
5) Fertilize every few weeks with a high potassium fertilizer. I like "Miracle Grow Bloom Buster". Its 15-30-15. I am sure there a better fertilizers out their specifically for grapes but this works really well for me, you can purchase it in small amounts and you can use it on hanging baskets, tomatoes, basil, peppers.......



tbayav8er said:


> Alright here it is so far. I did some trimming today, and this is what it looks like now....Any tips??


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## tbayav8er

Here's an update


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## tbayav8er

Seem to be getting some decent growth.


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## tbayav8er

Hi Everyone,

The snow is slowly melting away here, and I'm starting to consider how I should cut back my grape vine this year. The last photo I posted is still pretty much how the vine looks (although the wood is slightly thicker now, given the few months of summer after I took that last photo). Any tips on what I should do for this year? Thanks!


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## GreginND

It looks like you have the basic structure of the plant done. I would trim back the cordons to where you want them to end on your trellis. I'd probably trim any laterals back to one bud on the cordon. Trim off anything growing on the trunk. The buds on the cordons will grow and produce fruit for you.


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## BigH

In addition to what Greg said, you should probably keep 25 to 30 buds per vine, but no more. That is what the pruning equation for Marquette would dictate based on the small amount of vine that you will be pruning away.

Iowa State's pruning formula for Marquette is to retain 30 buds for the first pound of prunings and 10 buds for each additional lb of prunings after that. You don't need to bother weighing, you will be around 1 lb or less just based on the picture.

H


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## tbayav8er

How does this look?

Thanks!


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## tbayav8er

Hi Everyone,

Here are some pictures of my grape vine from today. Is there any pruning I should do, or just let it continue as is? Thanks!


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## Masbustelo

Probably prune everything that is not coming off the cordons you now have established. Personally, I prune the tendrils off as they appear, it makes the shoots less tangled and easier to maintain order.


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## GreginND

Looks great! I agree . . . pull off all those shoots coming out of the trunk.


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## tbayav8er

Alright I did a little bit of pruning. How's this? Thanks!


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## Masbustelo

Perfecto.


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## tbayav8er

Just did some pruning. I cut off some of the canes past the fruit, and cut off all of the tendrils I could find growing. Thoughts?


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## Masbustelo

Your not confusing tendrils with shoots? he shoots look short, but everything looks great, nice color. The tomatoes look healthy too.


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## tbayav8er

Yes, sorry. I cut back some all of the tendrils I could see growing, AND I cut back some shoots that I thought were taking too much energy. Is it a no-no to cut off shoots mid season?


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## BigH

To answer your question, summer pruning does not inherently harm the vine. Shoot thinning, hedging, skirting, lateral removal, and leaf pulling are all common forms of summer pruning. It won't kill or harm the vine, but it does invigorate the vine to grow more.

That said ... I would personally not cut the end off any fruiting shoot until it has enough leaves to ripen the fruit, which is about a dozen or more for a Marquette shoot with two clusters. IMO, you removed too much. You pruned some shoots off just 2 nodes past the fruit, which leaves only 4 nodes for the entire thing.

In practice, I don't prune fruiting shoots in the summer until they reach the ground (aka "skirting"). Some people advocate pinching off the end of vigorous shoots from the head region to try and divert energy to weaker shoots, but I am pretty sure they would advise you to keep more than 2 nodes.

just my 2 cents.

H


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## CrazyCalgary

I have a question, and don't mean to hijack this thread whatsoever, but I am looking into planting around 5-10 Marquette vines in my yard here in Calgary. Is it possible to "train" the tendrils to weave from top to bottom in a sort of an "S" shape? Would this cause any harm?

The reason I'm asking is to save horizontal space, and to be able to fit more vines side by side. I presume limiting the horizontal growth to about 4ft before "training" the tendril downward would be appropriate? 

tbayav8er, that growth this year looks awesome!

Thanks in advance.


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## tbayav8er

Unfortunately, I can't help with that, since I have almost no grape growing experience myself, but I thought I would share a couple of pictures of my vine that I took today!


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## Rice_Guy

CrazyCalgary said:


> . . Is it possible to "train" the tendrils to weave from top to bottom in a sort of an "S" shape? Would this cause any harm?


You can prune to any shape you want without hurting the vine. In Calgary consider planting on a south wall. The general reason for the wire is to maximize light exposure.


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## Masbustelo

I suspect that training in an S shape will cause apical dominance issues. Some of the nodes will grow strongly and others perhaps not at all.


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## montanarick

CrazyCalgary said:


> I have a question, and don't mean to hijack this thread whatsoever, but I am looking into planting around 5-10 Marquette vines in my yard here in Calgary. Is it possible to "train" the tendrils to weave from top to bottom in a sort of an "S" shape? Would this cause any harm?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is to save horizontal space, and to be able to fit more vines side by side. I presume limiting the horizontal growth to about 4ft before "training" the tendril downward would be appropriate?
> 
> tbayav8er, that growth this year looks awesome!
> 
> Thanks in advance.


my Marquettes tend to grow straight up and then drop over of their own accord - so not sure why there would be a need to train them to do so?


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## wfournier

CrazyCalgary said:


> I have a question, and don't mean to hijack this thread whatsoever, but I am looking into planting around 5-10 Marquette vines in my yard here in Calgary. Is it possible to "train" the tendrils to weave from top to bottom in a sort of an "S" shape? Would this cause any harm?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is to save horizontal space, and to be able to fit more vines side by side. I presume limiting the horizontal growth to about 4ft before "training" the tendril downward would be appropriate?
> 
> tbayav8er, that growth this year looks awesome!
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Are you trying to accomplish creating a longer cordon in a shorter space? I don't think this will work because the shoots growing off the cordon (with top wire training) hang down and I think you will end up with denser vegetation and a lack of sun/airflow. Maybe something like a Scott Henry system or GDC would help in your situation but I don't know how the vines would respond to those systems.


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## BigH

CrazyCalgary said:


> I have a question, and don't mean to hijack this thread



Consider starting a new thread



> I am looking into planting around 5-10 Marquette vines in my yard here in Calgary. Is it possible to "train" the tendrils to weave from top to bottom in a sort of an "S" shape? Would this cause any harm?



I think you mean shoots or cordons and not tendrils. A diagram would help. I think people are having a tough time visualizing what you mean.



> The reason I'm asking is to save horizontal space, and to be able to fit more vines side by side. I presume limiting the horizontal growth to about 4ft before "training" the tendril downward would be appropriate?



More vines does not equal more fruit. X feet along a single horizontal wire only has so much fruiting capacity. A well balanced Marquette vine will have nodes every 6 inches or so, and fruiting shoots only emerge from nodes. If you have, say, 40 feet of space, then you will have 80 nodes capable of producing fruiting shoots. Allocating those 80 nodes across 10 vines instead of 5 isn't going to give you more fruit. What it will do is create a vegetative mess because you tried to confine each vine to 4 feet of space. 

That is my answer based on what I think you are trying to do, but your use of the word "tendril" is really throwing me for a loop. The tendril is the short, coil shaped growth from a shoot that wraps around whatever is handy. They are also referred as "clingers". I have never heard of anyone training their tendrils, so I think you have latched on to the wrong viticulture term.

H


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## tbayav8er

Here's the juice I got. It's about a gallon. Hopefully the colour turns more red, as it ferments on the skins.


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## wfournier

Wow those are some pulverized grapes, how were they crushed? The juice from our marquette was a pink/red color right after crushing and darkened significantly while fermenting on the skins.


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## tbayav8er

I used a potato masher, and then used my hands. We'll see how it turns out. Going to add the yeast today. Hopefully the juice turns more red.


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## wfournier

tbayav8er said:


> I used a potato masher, and then used my hands. We'll see how it turns out. Going to add the yeast today. Hopefully the juice turns more red.



My guess is it will get more red, I think you may have done a more thorough job of crushing them than is necessary. I'm not an expert but I think the main goal is to break the skins so the juice can be released. Everything loosens up during fermentation and comes free on it's own that way. As long as the seeds aren't crushed I don't think it'll make a difference, maybe a different sort of cap. I've heard crushing the seeds can result in more astringency.


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## tbayav8er

Ah okay. I am pretty sure a few of the seeds got crushed. We'll see how it turns out! This is my first time ever trying to make wine from grapes, so I'm sure there will be a lot of lessons to be learned. PH was about 3.5 when I checked, and SG 1.090...So those numbers look alright, but we'll see how the colour, aroma, tannin etc. turns out. None of the grapes were really dark purple. They were all sort of light purple in colour. It's going to be getting close to the freezing mark here very soon, so I figured I should harvest now if I'm going to get anything at all. Based on the sugar/acidity levels, they are fairly close to proper ripeness anyway I think.


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## wfournier

tbayav8er said:


> Ah okay. I am pretty sure a few of the seeds got crushed. We'll see how it turns out! This is my first time ever trying to make wine from grapes, so I'm sure there will be a lot of lessons to be learned. PH was about 3.5 when I checked, and SG 1.090...So those numbers look alright, but we'll see how the colour, aroma, tannin etc. turns out. None of the grapes were really dark purple. They were all sort of light purple in colour. It's going to be getting close to the freezing mark here very soon, so I figured I should harvest now if I'm going to get anything at all. Based on the sugar/acidity levels, they are fairly close to proper ripeness anyway I think.



Yeah those numbers look good, the SG might be a touch low but with the PH at 3.5 I'd think they are ripe (I'm in the first year of picking marquette as well so not an expert). I'm surprised they were not darker, this is what our looked like with a SG of 1.094 and a PH of 3.00 (I probably should have waited but the wasps were doing damage).


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## tbayav8er

Nice! Those are a fair bit darker than mine. I think next year, I will fertilize my vine. Maybe fertilize once in the Spring next year, and once mid summer. Hopefully get the grapes growing a little sooner. Our winter went a little longer than normal this year in Winnipeg.


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## tbayav8er

Added pectic enzyme and pitched the yeast about 5 hours ago, and it's already turning red thankfully.


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## BigH

tbayav8er said:


> Nice! Those are a fair bit darker than mine. I think next year, I will fertilize my vine. Maybe fertilize once in the Spring next year, and once mid summer. Hopefully get the grapes growing a little sooner. Our winter went a little longer than normal this year in Winnipeg.




Looking back at the cluster pics you posted in August, I question whether your vines are really Marquette. Marquette clusters are small to medium in size, and are somewhat tight. Your clusters were bigger and loose, and the grapes never turned the deep blue/purple that Marquette does. Your clusters and leaves have a Frontenac look to me. If they turned a pinkish color, you may have Frontenac Gris instead of Marquette. Post pics after veraison if you have any. 

My Marquette is the first to change color in the summer. It never has a problem attaining good color, but getting the pH above 3.1 is often a struggle. 

H


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## tbayav8er

BigH said:


> Looking back at the cluster pics you posted in August, I question whether your vines are really Marquette. Marquette clusters are small to medium in size, and are somewhat tight. Your clusters were bigger and loose, and the grapes never turned the deep blue/purple that Marquette does. Your clusters and leaves have a Frontenac look to me. If they turned a pinkish color, you may have Frontenac Gris instead of Marquette. Post pics after veraison if you have any.
> 
> My Marquette is the first to change color in the summer. It never has a problem attaining good color, but getting the pH above 3.1 is often a struggle.
> 
> H



That's an interesting observation! The vine was labeled as Marquette when I bought it, however they were also selling Frontenac, so it is possible that they mixed them up. The grapes became more of a light purple colour, with some being darker than others. I didn't get a picture right before harvesting, unfortunately. If it turns out to be Frontenac, and it tastes good, that's fine by me. If I end up with an alcoholic beverage that loosely resembles a decent wine, I will be ecstatic for my first attempt at making wine from grapes. Right now, it's fermenting away, and turning more of a red colour. Initially, when I crushed the grapes, the juice was very green in colour. Now it's sort of a dark pink/light red. Looks like Rose.


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## Muskoka

Harvested Marquette today (25th) in Muskoka, Ontario. Too early?


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