# Pruning different training systems



## grapeman (Mar 30, 2013)

I posted a couple pictures to facebook yesterday and ibglowin wanted a couple before and after for Top Wire Cordon (High Wire Cordon) so I thought I would start a thread showing some different systems. See the following posts..........


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## grapeman (Mar 30, 2013)

*Top Wire Cordon*

Here is a before and after picture showing Top Wire Cordon.


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## grapeman (Mar 30, 2013)

*Vertical Shoot Positioned*

Here is a before and after of VSP.


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## grapeman (Mar 30, 2013)

*Scott-Henry*

Here is an after picture of Scott-Henry pruned and then after I pasted the canes back on. LOL I cheated and used one from last year with a background to show it better.


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## Wade E (Mar 30, 2013)

Great pics Rich. I know nothing about vines and probably never will but still find it interesting to look at what you guys have to do to get things to do grow right. Thanks


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## ibglowin (Mar 30, 2013)

Thank you sir. Much appreciated. I can't believe you guys still have that much snow on the ground!


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## GreginND (Mar 30, 2013)

That much snow? It looks pretty low to me. You can even see the bare ground! I have friends trying to prune their vineyards right now with over three feet of snow still burying he vines. One guy is doing this on skis.


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## grapeman (Mar 30, 2013)

The 50 degree weather today took a few more inches away. It may be gone by the time it cools off again. Then snow on Tuesday. LOL


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## grapeman (Mar 31, 2013)

*Modified GDC*

I am posting pictures of unpruned and then pruned Modified Geneva Double Curtain (GDC) from last year since I haven't pruned any of these yet. I need a taller helper to get the upper side as it pulls on the scar under my arm from the biopsy. I am really out of shape after 3 plus months on chemo and the 6 months since I learned I have lymphoma.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 31, 2013)

Great pics Rich. We have about the same amount of snow as yourself. Hopefully it'll be gone in a day or two.


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## ibglowin (Mar 31, 2013)

Are those last two pics actually of the same vine? I am dissecting the "before and after" and the two vines look totally different from each other. One has a double trunk and the other has only one. 

I am trying to get a handle on just how close to trim spurs to the trunk that are lower to the ground and or outside the fruiting zone.


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## grapeman (Mar 31, 2013)

No Mike they aren't the same vine. It is overcast and miserable here today, so I pulled some pictures out of the files to round this out a bit. I will try to post some actual pictures of the same Mod GDC vines if I can get them before my next round of chemo this coming week. You should be able to see that the spurs are being pruned back to a couple buds and each year you try to prune them back to minimize length increase. I had to leave some extra buds because of the extreme cold we saw.


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## srcorndog (Mar 31, 2013)

Great pictures it takes time and a good eye to trim as well as you have exhibited.
I use the watson method of trellis system training
__________
Charlie


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## grapeman (Apr 10, 2013)

For Ibglowin, here are a couple pictures of ModGDC of a before and after pruning one particular vine. I then show another vine next to it that shows the bracket used to divide the fruiting wires along with showing a vine Keith was finishing up pruning.


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## ibglowin (Apr 10, 2013)

Holy cow, somehow you really did make order out of that mess! Thanks for posting!


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Apr 10, 2013)

What kind of grapes are those in the pictures? It would be interesting to see how each varity looks with out the leaves on them.


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## grapeman (Apr 10, 2013)

Mike it really is quite simple just choose well developed shoots and cut them back to 1-3 nodes (bud swellings) and then thin out until you have about 3 spurs per foot for a total of 5-7 buds per foot of canopy.

Doug those happen to be Marquette in the last pictures. You really can see the differences in a lot of varieties because of cane color, strenght and other factors, but I have way too much work to take pictures of all of them LOL. A project for somebody else with a passion, I fear.


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## srcorndog (Apr 11, 2013)

Great examples of excellent pruning techniques the snow looks good as a back drop!
Charlie
The Vineyard at Hominy Creek


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## olusteebus (Apr 12, 2013)

I am thinking of using something similiar to the modified GDC for Muscadines. Would the upper and lower cordons be too close together for Muscadines? Anyone who grows Muscadines have an opinion?

And thanks Grapeman.


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## grapeman (Apr 12, 2013)

You could do the same thing with the muscadines and just make the angled bar longer to provide the seperation. Mine are only about 30 inches long but can be made longer since I custom build my own anyways. 3 to 4 foot of seperatrion would be better for muscadine.


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## GreginND (Apr 12, 2013)

Rich, how easy is it to switch from an existing TWC to your mod GDC?


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## grapeman (Apr 12, 2013)

I have not tried that yet Greg as I just came up with the system a few years ago. I could imagine it would be a lot of work, but it should be possible.


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## saddlebronze (Apr 18, 2013)

Great pics Rich, especially appreciate the MGDC. Looking forward to a YouTube where we actually see you doing the pruning!


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## jswordy (Apr 18, 2013)

Great to watch your place come together, Rich. I wish you could ship to me. Nice to see the dream taking shape.


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## garymc (Apr 18, 2013)

Olusteebus - "I am thinking of using something similiar to the modified GDC for Muscadines. Would the upper and lower cordons be too close together for Muscadines? Anyone who grows Muscadines have an opinion?" 
Muscadines are very vigorous growers where I live. I prune shoots that are 8 to 12 feet long off some of my vines. I wouldn't consider having a cordon directly beneath another cordon on a muscadine. Your climate, soil, etc may be different. I'm using a regular GDC about 5 to 5.5 feet tall. However, I'm new at it. I do know that I see a lot of other muscadines on a single wire about 5 feet high.


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## grapeman (Apr 28, 2013)

Somebody had asked if I had pictures of the vines with a bit of foliage on them. If you go back to page 1 I have added them to their respective type. I am posting them here also, but if you go back you can compare early growth to those systems. The first is VSP, then TWC,Scott Henry and then 2 of Modified GDC.


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## jschoenly (Jun 3, 2013)

Joined the site today, Hoping to learn a lot (Already have really). These before and after's are fantastic. 

I'm in the 2nd growing season now (planted bare root last April). Due to a hectic spring, I was a little late and then a little rushed in my pruning. Now that the wines are leafing out pretty well, I know i'm going to have to do some further pruning/cleanup. 

The pictures all appear to be fairly established vines. I'm curious for my vinyard, how much of "this years" growth should i leave in my cleanup. I didn't do the best in rubbing out buds and felt i should make sure i got decent bud break. I'd like to go back and leave 2-3 (?) of the new vigorous canes to grow this year. The majority of the vineyard will be VSP with a few TWC. How early should i be training these cordons? I assume now is the time to be leading them onto their respective fruiting wires?

I may have some questions on some slow to break buds (possibly damaged?) and growth near the grafts for some. I'll be doing some pruning looking for green stems and getting some pictures to start a new thread. Thanks!!


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## grapeman (Jun 3, 2013)

You can either train the shoots onto the wires as is or cut the trunk just below the wire. That will force 2 new shoots to grow and will point both directions to train as cordons.


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## BigJohnD (Sep 28, 2013)

Nicely done...


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