# Oak recommendation for these varietals



## geek (Dec 17, 2013)

I am ready to place an order online at Midwest for oak spirals and wonder if American Medium Plus Toast is a good selection. I like a nice oak flavor but do not want to over oak.

Would like a small perception of vanilla if possible.

-RJS CS Winery Series, kit: Super Tuscan
-Merlot/Cab Sav blend, fresh grapes
-Merlot from juice bucket (stuck in MLF..grrr)

Thinking of getting a couple small packages of Tannin Riche, never tried them before but good reviews here.


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## seth8530 (Dec 17, 2013)

Yeah, american oak should work just fine for that. Have you considered French and or Hungarian oaks?


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## geek (Dec 17, 2013)

I recently tried a french oak stave from a different supplier, heavy toast, and it didn't really impart that much on a Brunello kit from WE, it was in the carboy for 2 months.
Plus french is double the price.


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## seth8530 (Dec 17, 2013)

Sometimes less is best. What brand did the oak stave come from?


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## GreginND (Dec 17, 2013)

Heavier toast leads to less oak flavors and more flavors of caramel and smoke. If you want more oak flavors, use medium to lighter toasts.


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## geek (Dec 17, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> Sometimes less is best. What brand did the oak stave come from?



I don't remember but I bought the package at M&M here in CT.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 17, 2013)

Varis, buy the French oak spirals, they are much better in my opinion, plus, and a big plus, make sure that you buy from a busy supplier, after a year oak seems to lose its "punch".
There is a reason that French coast double, but as Seth stated, Hungarian is good as well, well worth the money.
Greg made a great point, as the toast level increases the actual oak flavor decreases and the flavor profiles and characteristics as a result of the toasting are imparted into your wine.
That said, the Cab can take a Medium Plus oak infusion spiral, I added one to a 6 gallon carboy and it it fantastic, but remember, I still rotate them into my barrels.
The Merlot/Cab Sav blend, fresh grapes can take a medium plus as well, and in my personal opinion I would add a medium oak spiral to the Merlot from juice bucket.

I'd also add some cellaring tannins to the juice bucket and wine kit to help with body and mouthfeel at this point. Make sure that you get the cellaring tannin while aging.


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## geek (Dec 18, 2013)

Thanks Tom.
Yesterday I put in an order for medium plus toast and also added 4 small packages of Tannin Riche. Can the Tannin Riche go in at any time or better before bottling? Do you mix in warm wine/water before you pitch it to avoid clumps?


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 18, 2013)

Tannin Riche is a finishing tannin, it can be used as a cellaring, must be added at least three weeks prior to bottling at a minimum. Mix it with a small amount of wine like you would meta, stir it up good, add it to the wine and gently stir it in.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 18, 2013)

In addition to his answer here, have you seen Tom's nice write-up on tannins?


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## SouthernChemist (Dec 18, 2013)

geek said:


> Thanks Tom.
> Yesterday I put in an order for medium plus toast and also added 4 small packages of Tannin Riche. Can the Tannin Riche go in at any time or better before bottling? Do you mix in warm wine/water before you pitch it to avoid clumps?



You can add aging tannins at any time, but you need to make sure you have about 3-4 weeks or so between the addition and bottling to allow things to integrate. A small amount of warm water should work fine. Just make sure it is in solution.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 18, 2013)

Sour_Grapes, thanks for the kind words.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 18, 2013)

Pumpkinman said:


> Sour_Grapes, thanks for the kind words.



De rien, mon ami! The funny thing is that I went and got the link to that sticky, and was about to post it, before seeing that YOU were the one that responded above! I was then stumped for a moment on how to reference it, since YOU hadn't seen fit to reference it!


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 18, 2013)

Lmao! It has to be the old age catching up with me..lol


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