# Yeast and other problems for newbie!



## Trigham (Mar 27, 2007)

hello everyone, I hope someone can help, I have a couple of issues, I put down two pails of 15 lbs of mixed berries,(Strawberries,Blueberries, Raspberries, and Blackberries) They smell soo good. I got a recipe from an old guy who makes amazing fruit wines. The problem is that I did my yeast packets in seperate bowls with 1/4 cup of warm water and a tablespoon of sugar for fifteen mins last night and added them to the must and covered them with plastic and their covers. Tonight I went in after 24 hours and nothing!! What did I do wrong or what should I do now. I will explain that I have only started to make wine this past november when I took 30 lbs of beautiful concord grapes off of a 25 yr old vine that came with this lovely bungalow I purchased. It is almost done now after 5 months of waiting and prepping. I did stir it daily in the beginning as well after the yeast application so I know what is supposed to happen with these two batches for my first delema. The problem with the concordes is that I didnt siphon off the must into a new carboy after I took it from the bucket to the carboy the first time.
The smell is beautiful and actually tastes pretty good but after switching carboys the sludge didnt all stay behind,( i know now i need to do this step twice before this now)but I added half a pint of grape concentrate and 1.5 cups of sugar to the must and mixed it well. It kind of has a vinagery taste if u know what I mean. How long will i have to wait before it is ready to bottle and can I strain or filter it before I bottle it. Im stuck please help!!


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## EJA (Mar 28, 2007)

First thing - do not panic  It is possible that 24 hours is not enough time for visible results. With that said, most of the time that I hear about slow starting fermentation, the must temperature is too low. You should check to make sure that your temperature is 70 - 74 degrees F. Also, a high sugar must sometimes takes a while to get started, so it would be good to know your specific gravity. Also, did you add anything to the must prior to pitching the yeast? What was your recipie? Did it call for the addition of Campden Tablets or Potassium Metabisulfite (K-meta). Usually you need to wait around 12-24 hours to pitch the yeast if you added K-meta. In a recent post in another forum, someone accidently added potassium sorbate, a yeast inhibitor, to the initial must. If you think that everything was done correctly, then I would make a yeast starter. Check out Jack Kellar's website: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/yeast.asp. 

As for your second issue, it is not that big a deal that you took the lees (thats the sludge at the bottom of the tank) with the must (the juice before it becomes wine) into secondary. You can get some off tastes, however, if you let a wine sit on the lees too long, especially red wines. Adding wine concentrate and sugar, to your young wine will cause it to referment, unless you add the above mentioned potassium sorbate. This is because the yeast is still alive and kicking, and just waiting for some more food (the sugar). The vinegary taste is a concern, however, because it may mean a bacterial infection of some kind - or it could mean the wine is just too young. Assuming the wine is OK, then you need to make sure it is perfectly clear before bottling. As you know, you will need to rack a few times to get to this stage. Straining wine will not help with the clearing. Filtering will, but that means with wine grade filters and usually a pump. Gravity will also clear, but that means time, and since you added more sugar, you will get more sediment from the restarted fermentation. Once that is done, and assuming you haven't gone to vinegar, you can add a fining agent (helps to clear the wine) One other problem you may encounter is oxidation, so make sure you keep your carboy topped up to about 2 inches below the bung to reduce airspace, and add 1/4 teaspoon of K-Meta every second racking or so. K-Meta acts as a preservative and anti-oxidant. If your wine has a bacterial infection, there may not be much you can do. I haven't encountered that situation, but perhaps someone else can offer advice.


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## Luc (Mar 29, 2007)

A few questions arise here:

You put the yeast in a cup of warm water. How warm was it. Couldn't it be
too hot for the yeast......

Second you put the yeast in a cup of warm water with a tablespoon of sugar. Why the sugar ??? Sugar is a great conserving material. So if there is to much sugar in a must, the yeast will stop because of dehydration (sugar will 'bind' with the fluids in the yeast), so the yeast will shut themselves off. 

So if you are lucky the yeast are recovering from 2 shocks. If you are unlucky the yeast just may never start working again.

I hope you have used sulphite in your must, the must will then be safe for a few days, but make as fast as possible a new yeast starter and add that to the must.

Considering the concord. All yeast will produce a very small bit of vinager during the fermentation process. But this will normally not be an issue, the amount is so small that you would not notice it. Now if fruit flies have been at the wine, vinager bactery will spoil the wine and there is nothing (as far as I know) you can do about it. I would certainly suggest to rack the concord of the lees. Measure the alcohol if possible (vinager bactery can not survive in alcohol percentages of 12% up). And add some sulphite if not done so already. Then wait a while and examine if the vinager taste will disappear.

Luc


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## Trigham (Mar 31, 2007)

*Woohoo!*

Thanks guys I started a new yeast package directly over the must and it worked the past two days the yeast started to work and sizzle. I am stirring daily. The SG was about 1050 when I checked it and the temp was about 75 Degrees. all things seem to be a go now so in a week or so or when the first reaction stops I will rack them to a glass carboy and sit them for a month before reracking is that right? My concords are not filled all the way up the neck of the carboy it is about 5 or 6 inches below the plug should I just leave it nor do I add water to bring it up to 2 inches below the plug , remember I already added the concentrate and in the final step.


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## Sacalait (Apr 1, 2007)

You can add water to bring it up (if you don't mind it a little bit diluted) or you could add barbles to achieve the results you want.


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## smurfe (Apr 1, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> You can add water to bring it up (if you don't mind it a little bit diluted) or you could add barbles to achieve the results you want.



Did you mean MARBLES? I was going to edit your post for you but I thought, maybe there is something out there called BARBLES that I don't know about.

Smurfe


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## Sacalait (Apr 1, 2007)




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## Trigham (Apr 1, 2007)

Marbles or barbles??? to bring the level up?


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## smurfe (Apr 2, 2007)

Trigham said:


> Marbles or barbles??? to bring the level up?



He was referring to bring the level of the liquid in the carboy up without having to add water. You can sanitize marbles and drop them in the carboy. It will raise the level of the liquid so you can minimize head space and reduce the surface area exposed to oxygen and reduce oxidation potentials.

Smurfe


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## Trigham (Apr 2, 2007)

Thank you so much , I was just makiung sure cause it is my first ever batch from scratch as well as my very first time making it , so I am cautious I really wnt this to work and have been boasting for 6 months lol


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## Trigham (Apr 8, 2007)

*Update for fresh fruit newbie*

 Hi guys , 
I just strained my two batches of mixed fruit(BLUE, BLACK,STRAW &RASPBERRIES) the yeast subsided and I have now rung the crap out of the berry remnants in a mesh bad and squeezed them to about the size of a softball or larger grapefruit. I racked them into two carboys one 24 liter and the other a 20 liter, I brought the liquid up to about two inches from the neck of the carboy and the other I will need to add some marbles when I get some. 
The color is bright red or very deep burgandy not like the concordes (deep Purple color) have racking now(its also been about three weeks since i reracked it and it is starting to smell a lot better and actually getting closser to a nice tasting wine keep your fingers crossed for me).  

I added the topper with water in them and wrapped them in a blanket to keep them warm, The first question I have is that when I took the SG it is 110 for both. I thought it was supposed to be about 130 and I was suposed to rerack in about three months when the sg went down to 110. It is there now unless I did something stupid? The juice tatses awesome and u can smell the alcohol content, its really quite nice. Is the sg supposed to be this low already?? and what temp should i try to keep the carboys at for the next three months? 
Thanks again for all yoru help in advance!!


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## Sacalait (Apr 9, 2007)

Glad to hear it's going well. First, go easy on wringing the must through the nylon bag. If you get too agressive in doing this you may get more sludge sediment in the bottom of the carboy than you want to deal with. The prefered way is to let it drip out as much as possible then gently squeeze the bag to get some of the remaining juice.

I think you ment an SG of 1.010 and 1.030 respectively. Ideally, racking to a carboy at the 1.030 reading would have been ideal but don't fret over it, you'll be just fine. Try to keep the temp. 70-75F. A slow ferment is what you're looking for, too warm and it'll ferment quicker than desired. With the SG at 1.010 at the transfer you shouldn't have long to wait before it's complete at SG .992. Keep the air lock on and monitor the bubbles in the air lock then when it has completely stopped (a month or so) check the SG, it should be around .994-.992. Now it's just a waiting game letting the sediment fall out and the wine clear (3mo) then rack off the sludge and into a clean carboy to wait until it's cleared even more and that's it.


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## Trigham (Apr 9, 2007)

Your right about the sg numbers, phew good news, it started to settle a little over night but still hasnt really been bubbling in the topper yet I guess maybe a little rest will get this going again will it?  what a great tasting must it is. I think i lost some temp but have it in a warmer spot now , I hope this brings it back to about 70-75degrees is that right?
thanks again


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## Sacalait (Apr 9, 2007)

If it won't start fermenting in the 70-75F range try to get it up to around 80F and once it gets going you can bring it back down. If it doesn't get started once the temp. is brought up (say 4-5days) you may end up with a stuck ferment. I won't get into that now unless it happens. Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.


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## Trigham (Apr 9, 2007)

stuck ferment??? jesus sounds like my wife lol, how do u suggest I get the temp back up if i may ask?Any hints or quik methods I should try.


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## Sacalait (Apr 10, 2007)

A heating pad or blanket wrapped around the carboy works fine.


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## Trigham (Apr 10, 2007)

Thank you, I found a wire carboy heater you plug in , kind of like a belt for the carboy, it seems to be raising the temp a little on one and I actually saw two pops in the topper, so the temp is hopefully making this work again. Then ill move it to the second carboy to raise the temp in it, I moved teh second one closer to my wood heater while i wait for the heat belt to do its thing on the first carboy. Pray for me ! I will keep you informed and again much thanks!!


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## Trigham (Apr 10, 2007)

Starting to worry some!! The temp is up on both carboys and still no action, im not sure what is going on, am I too impatient or will it take some time to start its bubbling again. Can I heat it too much at this stage?
Thanks again and sorry to be a pain!


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## Sacalait (Apr 11, 2007)

Yes you can heat it too much. I wouldn't let it get much over 85F as that temp is adequet to get ir started but beyond that and you could be headed for trouble. Be patient and give it a couple of days. If still nothing after that we'll talk about restarting a stuck ferment.


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## Trigham (Apr 11, 2007)

ok temps are up one to 80, the other to a little over 85 i stopped the heating process for now and willwait it out a day or two . I will keep u informed.Thanks much


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## Trigham (Apr 12, 2007)

Still no action or bubbling in the topper. I hope it will break out of its teenage rebelious stage


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## Sacalait (Apr 12, 2007)

What kind of yeast did you start with and what was the starting SG?

If by tomorrow you haven't seen any activity in the air lock it may be time for trying to start a stuck ferment.

Stuck ferment...prepare a yeast starter with an alcohol tolerent yeast (Lalvin 1118 is likely the best). Empty pkt. in a warm (90F) 1/2 glass of water. After yeast has started to work add a tsp of sugar to give it a boost, wait an hour or two and vigorous action should be evident. After you're satisfied the yeast is working add 1/2 cup of the wine from the stuck stuff. Once this has started to work (ferment) add an additional cup of juice. Keep doubling up until you've got 2 gals going. If a decrease in action is observed along the way you can try freezing a "ripe" banana, thawing it out, mushing it up then add it to the mix (yeast loves bananas). If all of this is working for you and you've got 2gals going then add the contents to the rest of your wine and this should be enough of a jump start to get it going again. 

If all of this hasn't worked maybe someone will step in with other suggestions. Good luck.


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## Trigham (Apr 12, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> What kind of yeast did you start with and what was the starting SG?
> 
> If by tomorrow you haven't seen any activity in the air lock it may be time for trying to start a stuck ferment.
> 
> ...



I feel bad for having to make u go threw this torture on my behalf, I hope someday I can repay you for your patience and time!! 

The starting SG, I lost the paper I wrote it on (confusion because the first yeat didnt take if you remember earlier on) but after the second yeasting worked for 5 or 6 days and seemed to stop after I mixed the must everyday to keep the fruit wet.The first yeast was Lalvin EC-1118 and the second that finally took was Lalvin K1-V1116, (the second which my wine store guy recommended for fresh berries) 
The next step was to rack to glass carboys and after I did that the SG was 1.010. I mentioned earlier in this thread that the SG was low at 1.010, I thought it should have been 1030 at that time. so anyway I think u said I wouldnt have to wait to long cause it was this low already at racking , so anyway now the SG is still about the same 1.010 and both carboys are approx 75 degrees and the air locks are not moving. after three and half days and even after I heated the carboys to 80 degrees ( one a little higher than 80) they still have not bubbled into the air locks, I am concerned now for sure.
 OMG that means i have to rerack the must from carboys to buckets again untill it starts again isnt that right? Or do i just do half of it out of the carboys. wow .

 On a good note I reracked my original concordes tonight into a new carboy and wow do they look great and smell wonderful and the taste is out of this world I love it and can drink it now , but alas I will wait a little longer and it ages better in time and if they taste this good after only 6 months wooohooo what will they be like in another month or two or even three lol


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## Sacalait (Apr 13, 2007)

It shouldn't be necessary to move into a bucket, just siphon some out or poor which ever is easiest and proceed from there. A turkey baster may be all you need at first to get out what you need. Remember you start off with small quantities and build from there.


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## Trigham (Apr 17, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> It shouldn't be necessary to move into a bucket, just siphon some out or poor which ever is easiest and proceed from there. A turkey baster may be all you need at first to get out what you need. Remember you start off with small quantities and build from there.



Musc, I was away for a couple of days fishing( open season) I didnt have a chance to get at the must , am I too late to try and restart it now after letting it stand a few extra days?


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## Sacalait (Apr 17, 2007)

Oh no never too late. Just proceed on.

Catch anything?


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## Trigham (Apr 17, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> Oh no never too late. Just proceed on.
> 
> Catch anything?



great will get on it in the morning, thank you for your time again.

I did get three trout (all about 14 inches, nice eating trout) There were a ton of nice trout caught all around me, i wasnt the lucky one opening day but it will come. I had to bow out of the last two days due to an a major toothache, I am afraid I need to get a root canal (sp) and im on the pennicilin and tylonol #3, have to wait until may 9th to get in to the surgeon due to a complicated root shape(oh brother leave it to me) anyway maybe teh wine will keep my mind of the pain and the thought of losing 1200$


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## Trigham (Apr 25, 2007)

Muscadine, If the yeast starter doesnt work what happens lol. I made two yeast staters last night in gallon pickle jars and and this morning when i awoke they were frothy (for loss of words) I added about a cup of the stuck must to each and tonight when I checked its flat( loss of words again) Will this take time to activate or did I do something wrong?


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## Sacalait (Apr 25, 2007)

The only thing I can think of is that you may have overpowered the starter by adding a cup. If you try again go slowly on adding the wine. Remember that you've already got maybe a 10%alc wine (since you don't know what your starting SG was the alc could be even higher) so it will take more coaxing to get it going again. Once the starter is frothing add a "little" wine and if it's still going in an hour or so add more and build onto that. Also you may try adding a "little" (it's a guess, maybe 1/4tsp) yeast energizer to the starter to help it along. If these things don't work then I'm at a loss as to what to do. I know you wanted a dry wine but with an SG of 1.010 you may have to settle for it being sweeter than you wanted.


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## Trigham (Apr 25, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> The only thing I can think of is that you may have overpowered the starter by adding a cup. If you try again go slowly on adding the wine. Remember that you've already got maybe a 10%alc wine (since you don't know what your starting SG was the alc could be even higher) so it will take more coaxing to get it going again. Once the starter is frothing add a "little" wine and if it's still going in an hour or so add more and build onto that. Also you may try adding a "little" (it's a guess, maybe 1/4tsp) yeast energizer to the starter to help it along. If these things don't work then I'm at a loss as to what to do. I know you wanted a dry wine but with an SG of 1.010 you may have to settle for it being sweeter than you wanted.




I dont mind the sweet wine , I just need to save it lol, Ill try another couple of yeast packages or two new starters and only add a 1/4 cup to start this time. ,but u suggest trying the energizer first so ill try that this afternoon. Will it start right away with the energizer or will it take time to get going , what should I be looking for?


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## Sacalait (Apr 25, 2007)

Go easy, a 1/4 cup may be too much, just ease into it you don't want to shock it. Once you've got 2~ cups going then you start doubling up.

I'd add a little energizer to the yeast starter, you want a vigorous start. Once you've got everything going add a tsp to the entire batch. 

What do you mean by "you just want to save it"? Nothing is lost so if you're satisfied with the way it tastes now you can add K-meta and sorbate and call it quits. Sorbate (1/2tsp/gal of wine) to prevent it from starting again.


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## Trigham (Apr 25, 2007)

Muscadine said:


> Go easy, a 1/4 cup may be too much, just ease into it you don't want to shock it. Once you've got 2~ cups going then you start doubling up.
> 
> I'd add a little energizer to the yeast starter, you want a vigorous start. Once you've got everything going add a tsp to the entire batch.
> 
> What do you mean by "you just want to save it"? Nothing is lost so if you're satisfied with the way it tastes now you can add K-meta and sorbate and call it quits. Sorbate (1/2tsp/gal of wine) to prevent it from starting again.



I meant I just dont want to have to throw it out, It cant be ready to drink yet I just put it into the carboys a couple of weeks ago after the original yeasting with the berries in it. Is it possible to be ready now? remember I made this from frozen berries. I shoud be at least 6 months before it could be ready, so im told ...jeeesh im starting to be confused more and more lol.


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## Sacalait (Apr 26, 2007)

Yeah, you're right. I thought you were going to throw it out. Just wait it out, It'll get much better in 6mos.


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## lockwood1956 (Apr 26, 2007)

see also here


http://www.winesathome.co.uk/downloads/stuckferments.pdf


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## lockwood1956 (Apr 26, 2007)

see here also

http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=911


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## Trigham (Apr 27, 2007)

Very good info indeed, will read it again more thoroughly, Thanks


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## Trigham (May 3, 2007)

Muscadine, The second restart didnt work either, I did the yeast starter as the forum said and after the first night it was working and I added about a tablespoon of the must and it just stopped working. I mean after a tablespoon do I not have a stubborn baby or what lol. I was wondering should i try the starter without orange juice and just put the warm water and sugar and the yeast and energizer and nutrient this time alone without the OJ. I am at a loss now oh boy!


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## Sacalait (May 4, 2007)

Can't help you, I've exhausted the remedies that I know. Maybe someone else on the forum has better suggestions.


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## shahzadmasih (May 15, 2007)

Hi, this post is very informative; however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,


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