# America in decline



## JohnT (Jun 29, 2012)

Below is a link to a news article covering the latest Chineese accomplishment in their manned space program. This is a sign folks. Over the next 10 years or so, most forecasters agree that China will be the most powerful nation on earth. 

China's goals in space are now on par with what this country used to have. I take this as a fightening sign that our place on the world stage is in decline. Gosh, we do not even have a manned space program!

We need to get on the ball!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47995434/ns/technology_and_science-space/


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## cindy (Jun 29, 2012)

the way things are going I doubt this country or any other has 10 years.
sadly this country has been in decline for quite sometime but most people
walk around with blinders on either in disbelief or just not in tune to whats
going on I don't know which. I believe we are all headed for Worldwide economic collapse.
Not Scared. just prepared.. jmho


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## g8keeper (Jun 29, 2012)

look at all the world powers of the world....the united states is in it's infancy compared to most of them....great britain, france, china....all these countries date back way farther the the mere 236 years the u.s. has been around, and most of them has had some fall or another during their time....it's just a shame ours is coming as soon as it appears to be....they have always said "history repeats itself", and that truly appears to be the case here as well....


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## cindy (Jun 29, 2012)

this is true, "history repeats itself" it's also said 
nothing under the sun is new it's all been done before.
too bad we as humans aren't smart enough to learn from our mistakes.
it's amazing how easily we forget. 
when I was younger I always thought God made humans too smart because
of all the technology, inventions ect.....
then as I got older I realized he didn't make us smart enough..


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## Rocky (Jun 29, 2012)

Our Country has been in decline since we abandoned the idea of a meritocracy and began "leveling the playing field" for people who could not advance by their own talent, intelligence and initiative. Frankly, my friends, it is not bad being 70 and nearer the end than the beginning. Author James Jones (_From here to Eternity_, _The Thin Red Line_) felt that we reached our peak with the generation that went off to fight in WWII and I agree. We have been in decline since then, starting with the Roosevelt administration.


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## mvcrews (Jun 29, 2012)

Manned space programs are incredibly expensive and have very little scientific value. I'm glad my tax dollars are being wasted on other things instead


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## Julie (Jun 29, 2012)

You know I have been enjoying this thread until now.

As we have stated before, no political comments. Everyone sees the world thru their eyes, that doesn't mean it is the same view as everyone else nor does that mean your view is the only right one. Once politics or religion gets involved threads just go to crap in a heartbeat.


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## Scott (Jun 29, 2012)

How would you like to be one of those on the International Space Station when NASA said they will no longer continue with a space shuttle? 

Hello we are still up here!!!


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## deboard (Jun 29, 2012)

I'd have to disagree with the whole premise. I haven't been this excited about the U.S. involvement in space since I was a child and the shuttles were first being launched. 

What you'll see in the next ten years, in my opinion, is the emergence of the U.S. as the leader of the commercial space industry. With companies like SpaceX getting contracts to supply the space station with supplies and astronauts, the cost of LEO (Low Earth Orbit), will finally shrink rapidly. Add in companies that are not far behind SpaceX, such as Orbital Sciences, and Blue Origin, and you have a competitive market beginning to emerge, and with that will come both improvements in quality and reductions in prices. 

On top of that you have several companies working on the tourism aspect of commercial space ventures, from short flights into space to full fledged space hotels. 

People bemoan the retirement of the shuttles as some kind of sign of weakness, but remember that the shuttles were never intended to be used as long as they were. In fact, they were intended to be retired more than a decade ago. I contend that the weakness in NASA came to a head around the beginning of this century. The shuttles should have been retiring soon, and their replacements should be on the horizon, but that never happened. And as far as I can tell NASA is finally getting it's head on straight by using the commercial companies that are emerging. 

The idea for NASA should be -> do the hard stuff. Once that becomes easier, leave it to the private sector and move on to the next hard thing. NASA should be focusing on the moon, asteroids, and even mars, not LEO.

Just my 2 cents.


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## mmadmikes1 (Jun 29, 2012)

China has been the largest economy and most technological advanced country 21 out of 22 centuries! Did you think any thing would end this pattern?


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## joea132 (Jun 30, 2012)

Stock up on guns, ammo, and homemade wine. That's my take on it.


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## mmadmikes1 (Jun 30, 2012)

joea132 said:


> Stock up on guns, ammo, and homemade wine. That's my take on it.


 Don't forget to thank the Chinese for inventing your gun powder


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## JohnT (Jul 2, 2012)

I hear most of what you guys are saying and agree. 

The amount that NASA costs the taxpayer is surprizingly small. When you compare the bottom line of the national budget, then see what portion of that budget goes to NASA, you would be shocked.

If we privatize space (and I think that this is a good thing) then NASA should simply have the role of "govenerning body" and serve only as a stearing comittee and governing body. In keeping with this thought, then NASA should end all active programs, transfer them to the private sector, and reduce it's staff down to just a few hundred people.

My concern is this. We had perfectly working shuttles (although old). Why did we shut the program down, and not have anything new to replace it? We did have the ORION program, but I think that this has been cut. In the mean time, countries like China and Russia continue to make strides in space exploration. I just see this as yet another sign that America is in decline.


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## Jeff180 (Jul 2, 2012)

I think it's important to keep this in perspective. Sure, China is now the 3rd nation to accomplish a space docking. But the gap between China and the US/Russia is staggering. We've been docking in space for almost 50 years now.


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## JohnT (Jul 2, 2012)

Jeff180 said:


> I think it's important to keep this in perspective. Sure, China is now the 3rd nation to accomplish a space docking. But the gap between China and the US/Russia is staggering. We've been docking in space for almost 50 years now.


 
I hear ya, but China has not really been an economic power until recently. In fact, we did not even have established relations with them until Nixon went to China in 1972. It was only recently that they relaxed their comunist stance and turned the country into a more free economy.

Simply look at what China has accomplished in such a short time. A rebuilt and re-worked economy and now a space program that has more ambitious then what we have. They are putting us to shame.


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## mmadmikes1 (Jul 2, 2012)

Just because China is getting better does not mean we are declining. Why I agree we gave away the farm with free trade mentality. In this case a+b does not equal c. Please note: when our economy slides theirs does too. We are interdependent.


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## cindy (Jul 2, 2012)

Sadly we're all missing the point......


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## jswordy (Jul 9, 2012)

But ... but ... WE GOTS FACEBOOK!


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## Bartman (Jul 9, 2012)

jswordy said:


> But ... but ... WE GOTS FACEBOOK!



The Chinese cannot begin to compete with the US on the use of Twitter and mastery of hashtags! #TheEndIsNigh


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## BobF (Jul 9, 2012)

Required reading:
http://thediamondsmine.com/files/Ebooks/Clason-RichestManInBabylon.pdf

The government is NOT the answer.


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## GreginND (Jul 9, 2012)

China has their own versions of Facebook and twitter. AND, they have more internet users than the entire population of the US.


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## Julie (Jul 9, 2012)

GreginND said:


> China has their own versions of Facebook and twitter. AND, they have more internet users than the entire population of the US.



Well I would say that is because they have a bigger population than what we have. My son currently is working in China and I only hear from him a couple times a week as oppose to everyday when he was in other countries.


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## deboard (Jul 9, 2012)

GreginND said:


> China has their own versions of Facebook and twitter. AND, they have more internet users than the entire population of the US.



They have their own versions because they will not let their citizens use Facebook or Twitter. I have several chinese friends who have family back in China, and believe me, they would much prefer to use the real thing.


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## Deezil (Jul 9, 2012)

deboard said:


> They have their own versions because they will not let their citizens use Facebook or Twitter. I have several chinese friends who have family back in China, and believe me, they would much prefer to use the real thing.



Government censorship 

And this is leads to one of the underlying reason as to why America will always be a competitor... People dont flock *to* China or Russia, like they have to America for generations - despite the speculation in the media lately that the "dream" might be changing, i dont think America will ever have low immigration numbers


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## Midwest Vintner (Jul 10, 2012)

China is going to fall off the cliff when their 1 child that they had won't be able to take care of their 2 parents. Not to mention that they are also looking to earn better wages, etc. Both the Chinese and the Russian people are learning that their gov't is not doing them any good. Look at the Korean peninsula. South Korea is growing, while North Korea is starving (yet for some reason wants to have a large military compared to their $???). 

I look at it like this, a spoiled child has less motivation to become a better person than one that learns the value of money and work ethic. 

As far as space exploration, we have to get the basic forms of gov't back on track before spending billions on a non-productive program, IMO. I really would love to see people go to Mars, but it seems we can't get the public schools to educate at the level they should be.


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## Sirs (Jul 10, 2012)

I probably shouldn't say this but....... far as I'm concerned this country has been in the crapper for a long time, ever since a family had to start having both parents work it's went downhill. The other thing is the free trade agreement we've adopted if it went as it was supposed to things would probably be fine but as it is we import tons of stuff from other countries and they don't import a tenth back from us.So most of our industries left to other countries for labor that compared to our labor costs was free. In fact it is cheaper to pay to have it made elsewhere and shipped back here than it is to make it here and sell it.Thing is we're buying stuff made in other countries by our own companies so we lose all the way around.That's why our country is going even quicker down the world drain. Even our own government is wanting to make us even more stupid than what we already are. I know I got kids who worked their tales off to get an education only to see other kids who can't hardly read a newspaper be given the same diploma's in school just because we can't have anyone left behind. OK I'm stepping down off the rant stool
lol


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## JohnT (Jul 10, 2012)

OK, 

Getting back to the point. Most economists will agree on this: China will be the leading economic power within the next 10 years. Just look at the conversion rates of our respective currencies. 

This original point I am making here is that China has become so strong, that they are INCREASING their space exploration budget while the USA has been cutting the NASA budget steadily since 1974. We do not have the money for space exploration anymore, but China certainly does. It just makes you think. 

Another note. For what it is worth, good or bad, I feel that America is the greatest country on the planet! As citizens, we have had the right to criticize the way our country has been working for its entire history. There was a time in China, not too long ago, that any like comments that have appeared on this thread, we would have all been put into a work camp or simply taken out in the middle of the night and shot in the back of the head.

This in mind, it is hard to see our country flounder. Especially to a pseudo-comunist country.


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## g8keeper (Jul 10, 2012)

i love this country as well, but i have come to learn...."love your country, but fear your government"....i am by no means a conspiracy theorist but believe me, there is soooo much that goes on behind the scenes with "our elected officials", that we are never privy too.....they only let us, the ones that "put them into power", ergo, in a round about way, "their bosses", what they want us to know...i'm sorry, i know we have the "best" political system out there, but it truly is far from perfect...when our elected officials, who _should be_ looking out for our best interests, and working _for_ us, seem to be following their own personal agendas, i take offense to that....when i see we have people in this country struggling to make ends meets, and i do means those that are working, and as previously mentioned, 2 income households, that can't get a little help, but we can help send aid, and support other struggling countries, i have a problem....when we have people that graciously served our military and risked their lives in combat, that the government basically turns their back on afterwards, i have a problem as well...ok...enough of this rant....i think you all see where i am going with this, and believe me, i could go on, but i'll get off of my soapbox as well now.....sorry everyone....


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## Sirs (Jul 11, 2012)

I so agree with you in the respect it seems anymore we can't trust our elected officials to do what we elected them to do, all they do is their own agenda.... Also like john I love this country with my all, in fact I volunteered to do service for it wholeheartedly, very willingly in fact and would again. I took an oath then to protect and serve our country and our constitution from foreign and domestic enemies (even though I got out of the service my oath didn't stop) which seems there are more and more of lately even in our government but guess it'll all come out in the wash as the old saying goes.


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## Midwest Vintner (Jul 11, 2012)

Just an FYI, we send "aid" to China......


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## mmadmikes1 (Jul 11, 2012)

We have the money for whatever they want to spend it. We dont paid anywhere near enough taxs to cover the spending so after that it is make believe


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