# Starting an Apple Wine



## Waldo (Nov 27, 2005)

*


I guess I am going to have to stay away from Wal-Mart or any grocery store. I went to "Wally World" early this morning to do a little Christmas shopping and I spied this sparkling cider.









It is 100% pure carbonated apple juice with no water, preservatives, sweetners or concentrates added. But they only had 4 bottles left which was a little less than a gallon but I decided to try it anyway. Following is my recipe and hopefully I will end up with a fairly decent apple wine cooler. I am making a starter using Lalvin EC-1118 for it's ability to do a quick fermntation and it's recommendation for white and sparkling wines. 


Dissolved 1-1/3 lbs. sugar ( Natural Cane Turbinado Sugar from Hawaii) until completely dissolved in 2 cups ( 0.124996 gallon ) hot water and added sugar water &amp; cider (.79976 gallon) to fermenter. I then added 1 tsp. acid blend, 1/4 teaspoon tannin, 1-1/2 tsp. yeast nutrient, and one Campden tablet dissolved in processor to fermenter and stirred in well. I will let this set for 12 hours and will then add 1-1/2 tsp. Pectic Enzyme. Let it set for another 12 hours and if SG level and tannins are where I want them I will add my starter to it which will finish out my total volume tojust a tad overone gallon.**Edited by: Waldo *


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## peterCooper (Dec 2, 2005)

Did you add the acid blend just because, or did you measure acidity first/ 
I'm asking because I don't have a pH. tester (except for the pool and I'm not 
using it) and am ready to start my apple wine.

Also does it make a difference using a campden tablet or K-meta?


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## peterCooper (Dec 2, 2005)

How are you organizing your starter?


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## Waldo (Dec 2, 2005)

I am usng the taste method to test for acid Peter. Letting my tongue tell me if it needs some help. As for my starter. I am hydrating in plain water around 75 degrees. Once it get going, I add about 1/2 cup of my mustwith a bit of yeast nutrient. I let that work for a bit and then add another cup of must. Once it gets to fermenting really strong again I add it to my primary. I use a large spoon and drizzle the starter onto it, letrting it splash across the surface of must in the primary. Hope this answered your question, if not, I'll give it another try.


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## masta (Dec 3, 2005)

How is the apple wine coming Waldo? Must have been strange having to degas the juice before starting fermentation!


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## peterCooper (Dec 7, 2005)

Took the plunge and now I am itching.

Went on the store site and picked up Bentonite, Acid Blend, a pH tester, 
lavlin EC - 1118, yeast nutrient, tannin and pectic enzyme.

Saturday, I'm going to start a cranberry apple. I'm itching to start now but 
I have a Christmas do at my place on Friday and I can't get my wine stuff 
out until afterwards. 

Thought I'd soak 1lb of sweetened cranberries overnight and then put in 
the blender. Then add to 6 gallons of natural apple juice from Krogers 
test for sugar and acid and adjust. 

I plan to the leave for 24 hours before pitching the yeast.

I think that will give me something that looks vaguely Rose and has a 
kick like a mule. There is something distinctly reminiscent of femininity in 
that last sentence.





Am I on the right track?


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## Waldo (Dec 8, 2005)

I do believe you are peter. Should be very good


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## peterCooper (Dec 10, 2005)

So it is now officially started.

1lb of dried sweetened cranberries
2 oz raisins
2 oz of currants (both because they were left over from the Christmas 
cake.
Soaked for 2 days and then processed in the FP to make a pretty fine 
slurry.
Added six gallons of apple juice. 
3 gallons of Kroger fresh apple juice
3 gallons of the pasturised Kroger keep for ever stuff. ( that's all they had 
but it was cheap)
Added 8 lb sugar in solution to bring the SG up to 1.90 PA is abotu 11.5%
3 tsp tannin
adjusted acid to .60 (took six tsps.)
Added 2 tsp of yeast nutrient

Have Bentonite in solution waiting to go in tomorrow
Will pitch the yeasy Lavlin 1118 tomorrow also

My biggest worry is that I'm easily up past 6.5 gallons and have less than 
a gallon head room in the fermenter. Debating whether or not to take out 
1/2 gallon.


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## MedPretzel (Dec 11, 2005)

peterCooper said:


> My biggest worry is that I'm easily up past 6.5 gallons and have less than
> a gallon head room in the fermenter. Debating whether or not to take out
> 1/2 gallon.




Take it out. Rather to be on the side of safety. Put it in a 1-gallon bucket or so. Makes a great toppingu up bottle.





Sounds like a great recipe. Keep us posted.


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## peterCooper (Dec 13, 2005)

Must is bubbling away by crazy. I had no problems in starting.
Sunday morningadded the bentonite and gave it a good stir. Then I pitched 
the yeast. By the afternoon it had started with a good cap on it, maybe 1/2 
thick at most.

The cap had gone Monday afternoon but a pretty fierce ferment had started. 
I had expected it to be slower but it seems to be going just like a kit wine.


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## masta (Dec 13, 2005)

Sounds great Peter and a good must makes some happy yeast!


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## peterCooper (Dec 13, 2005)

I just thought of something. I added 8lb of sugar to make the OG move 
from 1.050 to 1.090. That's 2lb per 0.010. If I ferment this to dry at .990 
that means I'm turning about 20lb sugar into alcohol! I know some of it 
turns to CO2, but do I have about 20lbs of alcohol in here? Or doesn't it 
work that way?*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## masta (Dec 13, 2005)

Peter, 


Here is my calculation of amount of alcohol in your finished batch.


OG 1.090 to FG 0.990 = 13.2% ABV


23 L x 13.2% = 3.03 L of Ethanol


3.03 L = 0.80 gals


Ethanol is6.59 lbs per gallon


6.59 x 0.80 = *5.27 lbs of Ethanol*


FYI:


SG of Ethanol is 0.789 


1 Liter of Ethanol weighs 0.789 KG*Edited by: masta *


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## Waldo (Dec 13, 2005)

How is that wine coming Peter. Some pictures would be nice


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## Waldo (Dec 13, 2005)

masta said:


> How is the apple wine coming Waldo? Must have been strange having to degas the juice before starting fermentation!




Coming right along Masta. Fermentation has slowed considerably and will probably be racking andstabilizing bythis weekend. SG is at 1.000 as of this evening and beginning to clear a little.


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## MedPretzel (Dec 13, 2005)

YUMMMMMMMMMMM-UMMMMMMMMMM!





Gimme a glass!





M.


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## Waldo (Dec 13, 2005)

Thanks Martina.Just head on down Kiddo and we will have us a wine tasting party extrodinaire


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## peterCooper (Dec 15, 2005)

Ok here's the first picture.

sorry it's a bit blurry, but then I was too when I took it.




The color is off too. Bad lighting in the room.

This is about 12 hours after I pitched the yeast. 
I can do another image of the airlock going bloop bloop bloop bigtime of 
you like.

SG was down to 1.040 last night from 1.060. I will most likely move it to 
a carboy on Friday or Saturday evening if it keeps on going down this 
fast. 

Than hopefully I'll be able to get a look at the color.


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## Waldo (Dec 15, 2005)

Looking good Peter. How does she smell?


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## peterCooper (Dec 15, 2005)

Still very much like apples. Good smell but I'm beginning to smell the 
alcohol and the CO2 has a different tang than in the kit wines.

I'll be brave on Friday evening and have a taste.


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## Waldo (Dec 16, 2005)

Tasting each step of the way to me is an essential part of winemaking.


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## peterCooper (Dec 16, 2005)

OK so I tasted it.
It's definitely drying out. Very light and less appley than I thought. In the 
UK cider is alcoholic and very often carbonated. That's pretty much what I 
tasted although there was a hint of the cranberry. 

Well satisfied with how its going. It will be interesting how I react as it does 
dry out, will I like it more or less. That'll probably determine whhether or 
not I sweeten after stabilization.


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## Waldo (Dec 18, 2005)

And a little bit of sweetning goes a long way.


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## masta (Dec 18, 2005)

Try some liquid apple juice concentrate to sweeten as it will add apple flavor.


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 18, 2005)

Fine Vine Wines sells an apple flavoring item #3500...we have used it in some Sparkling Apple wine and it sure spruced up the flavor.....**A little goes a long way!!!!


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## n5odj (Dec 18, 2005)

I've got a one month old 6 gallon carboy of apple wine (made from apple juice)that is now one month since beginning this batch. Tasted it today while racking. Since this is my first batch of apple, I didn't know what to expect, but was disappointed in the lack of flavor &amp; thinness. Oh, to be sure I can taste the alcohol at 15% though. Anyway, using the abovementioned apple flavoring from FineVineWines, what would any of ya'll recommend be the dosage for this 6 gallon carboy to bump up the flavor?


Thanks,


Robert


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## peterCooper (Dec 18, 2005)

Racked to glass Friday night.
Color looks just like apple juice. The cranberries didn't leave any color it 
seems.
It's been bubbling away pretty fiercely since. I was going to do an SG test 
but its still goig to strong. I'll leave it until I see o more activity and then 
test.

Have a question though. It has already thrown a good inch of lees but it 
is still got plenty of particulates in it. (good word that. Had to think for 
five minutes to come up with it) I know when you use a kit wine you stir it 
all up and degas before stabilizing and fining. Do you do the same with a 
scratch wine or is it all right to take it of the lees first, then degas, 
stabilize fine and return to the carboy?


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 18, 2005)

n5odj said:


> Anyway, using the abovementioned apple flavoring from FineVineWines, what would any of ya'll recommend be the dosage for this 6 gallon carboy to bump up the flavor?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> ...



An once/6 gallons would be enough to bring out the apple flavor...if you taste at that point you can always add more.
We try it before bottling....1/2 mil [cc] per 8oz glass of wine and taste...that equals [I think] 40 cc [mil] per 5 gallons OR 8 teaspoons/5 gallons OR 1.35 oz/5 gallons....40 cc[mil] is about 2.71 tablespoons.....So, if you put 1 oz/6 gallons would be slight, then go from there.
I use a syringe and add 1/2 cc[mil] to 8 oz of wine....we do the same with wine conditioner....that way you get to taste your wine and tweak it without tweaking the whole batch.
We bought some cherry flavoring and have never used it.Put some blueberry flavoring in some blueberry wine and over-did it a tad, but it still was good....so go easy on that flavoring.
We think the apple is a good addition to some of our apple wines, especially the sparkling ones.
It's not too expensive, [$3.99/4 oz] and a little goes a long way and it seems to keep well, tho we put it in the fridge after opening.
Masta is a whiz at equations...he might correct my sums...but think I figured them right....those are the amounts we have used.
*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## n5odj (Dec 18, 2005)

I appreciate the info. As an aside, is the addition of sorbate required with this product? 


Robert


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 18, 2005)

Yes, add sorbate too and what ever else you usually do at bottling.....The flavorings are for beer and wine and have no preservatives or other ingredients listed.
Other people my like to use frozen apple juice for flavorings at the end, but I have always been afraid of them making the wine cloudy.


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## Waldo (Dec 19, 2005)

Rack it off the lees first Peter. 




peterCooper said:


> Racked to glass Friday night.
> Color looks just like apple juice. The cranberries didn't leave any color it
> seems.
> It's been bubbling away pretty fiercely since. I was going to do an SG test
> ...


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## peterCooper (Dec 19, 2005)

Well darn it! droppped my Hydrometer on the floor. 
SG down to 1.010 and falling. Did that before I dropped it.
Guess I'll order a new one.


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## MedPretzel (Dec 19, 2005)

Man, winemakers (knock on wood) seem to be clumsy people. 





_Coincidence?_





I'm still on my 1st hydrometer. 





Does that mean there's something wrong with me?


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## Bert (Dec 19, 2005)

Martina


You must not be trying hard enough...










I think we are on our third one...and I haven't broken oneyet [knock on wood]....and I don't have just one spare, but two extras , just for those bad days.



*Edited by: Bert *


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## MedPretzel (Dec 19, 2005)

I heard about having spares... From a Polish Princess, no less!


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## MedPretzel (Dec 19, 2005)

To clarify: I *do* have one back-up, but only because someone sent it to me in a "bonus" ebay package.


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## jobe05 (Dec 19, 2005)

Martina,


Im still on my first hydrometer also.............


And I know that you and I both taste test during the process...........


Sometimes drink a glass or 2 from the last batch while we make the new batch....................


Tells me that we have our priorities right.....


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## MedPretzel (Dec 19, 2005)

Amen to that.


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## peterCooper (Dec 20, 2005)

You do have your priorities right but I want to asure everyone that I did not 
drop the hydrometer BECAUSE I had had a glass to test


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## peterCooper (Dec 23, 2005)

It's offical now; making scratch wine takes longer than kit wine. Even the 
fermenting part it seems. I started my apple cranberry two weeks ago. I 
racked it to glass last friday and started a WE Selection International 
Barolo at the same time. 

Wednesday I racked the Barolo to glass (SG was down to 1.020) and it was 
fermenting away like a good un. Yesterday I did a comparison between 
the two and the Barolo was throwing a three bloops to every one of the 
apple cranberry. Today they're going at about the same speed. So my 
conclusions is that the apple cranberry is on a longer slower ferment. 

I'm wondering if it is to do with the yeast. I used a Lavlin 1118 in the 
apple but I don't know what WE use in the Barolo. 

Can't tell the SG right now but may be able to later on today, when my 
NEW hydrometer arrives.*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## peterCooper (Dec 23, 2005)

Hydrometer arrived!!!
SG on the apple wine 1.000 exactly
SG on the Barolo .994

Racked the apple off the lees. (actualy is still going)


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## peterCooper (Dec 23, 2005)

Added about 1/2 oz of Freanch Oak heavy toast.
Took a taste test. tasted fairly dry but still a pronounced apple taste. 
Actually quite strong but a very pleasant taste. Clean aftertaste too. Not 
cloying like some of the medium sweet whites.


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## MedPretzel (Dec 23, 2005)




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## peterCooper (Dec 23, 2005)

Now I've got to wait a little longer. It still producing the occasional bubble 
so I think I'll leave it until Wed/Thurs before fining and stabilizing. Of course 
I'll take another SG reading and have a littel taste.


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## peterCooper (Dec 31, 2005)

Stablilzed and fined. 
Now something interesting has happened. It's clearing in bands. There are 
three definite bands showing, the lowest being uncleared and extending 
about 6 inches up the carboy. The next band is clearer (somewhat) and 
goes another 4 vinches up the carbo and the rest appears clearer still 
(actually if I shine a light I can see a beam though it is still very cloudy.
Sorry, no pics, the wife has the camera up in missouri.

I marked the levels on the bands with scotch tape to see if they shift 
overnight.


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## Waldo (Jan 1, 2006)

That is very interesting Peter. Have never seen that before myself. Will be interesting to watch this post. I now have my sparkling cider applewine in bulk storage and will probably leave it until spring. I did bottle a green apple reisling this weekend that was really good. *Edited by: Waldo *


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## peterCooper (Jan 1, 2006)

And shift they did. The lower band dropped about 3 inches, the upper band 
an inch. I guess it's to do with the fineness of particles. Usually there is a 
continuous range of particle sizes and the smaller the particle, the longer it 
takes to drop out.. Maybe with this there are a some large sized particles 
and some much smaller ones so they drop out at different rates leaving the 
bands.

Even when they have gone, there is still a lot of clearing to do.


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## n5odj (Jan 1, 2006)

Peter,


My apple wine did the exact same thing. Just like yours, there were three distinct bands. Being the impatient one, I used some KC fining &amp; the next morning the whole thing was crystal clear.


Robert


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## peterCooper (Jan 1, 2006)

OK so tell me about KC fining


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## n5odj (Jan 2, 2006)

This was the first time I've used KC, but was impressed enough to use it again. It comes in a two sided packet of liquid. Mix in the first &amp; then the second..... one right after the other worked for me although the instructions didn't specify a particular length of time between the two.


Robert


Here's from the website where I ordered it:



<TABLE width="100%">
<T>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top align=left width="100%" colSpan=4>*LQ SUPER-KLEER K. C. FININGS* </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="100%" colSpan=4>
<DIV =product_deion>High speed liquid clearing agent. A one-two punch combination of Kieselsol and Chitosan, the 1.35 oz. package is sufficient to clear a five or six gallon batch of BEER or WINE in one to two days! Easy to use!</TD></TR></T></TABLE>


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## pkcook (Jan 2, 2006)

Peter,


I've never posted here, but read regularly to get tips. I made a cherry/white grape wine that produced the rings when clearing. Being the cheap one, I just waited it out and the wine cleared out like a crystal. I sweatened with a tart cherry concentrate (1/2 cup)I found online http://www.brownwoodacres.com/cherry.htm. It did cloud the wine quite a bit and after 2 months never cleared. I only made a gallon, so I opted to bottle (november)and drink myself. I took a bottle home to KY for Christmas and the taste was "WOW." Everyone loved it"floaties" and all.


I would love to repeat this batch, but was wondering if there was a method tocleara wine that the concentrate clouds without filtering?


Pat


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## masta (Jan 2, 2006)

Pat,


I am making a mead "Cherry Melomel" with this same cherry concentrate. Their products are awesome with amazing concentrated flavors. Did you make the wine with the cherry concentrate or just sweeten with it?


Adding a fining agent like the Super Kleer K. C. when adding the concentrate should help to clear it. You can also only use a portion of the packets if you are making a small batch less than 5 gallons and save the rest for another time.


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## pkcook (Jan 2, 2006)

Masta,


I used two 64oz bottles of cherry/? and one bottle of Welch's niagra and only sweatened with the concentrate. I also did an oregon red raspberry (canned) and used the red raspberry concentrate ($$$) to sweaten. Boy, what a difference! This concentrate is high power! Both the Cherry and the Raspberry showed drastic improvements from the concentrate. I opened another bottle of the Cherry last night and what a difference a couple of weeks make in the bottle! I only have 3 bottles left and I would love to hold on to a couple for at least a year to see the difference. 


Brownwood Acres has a sale on the the raspberry and I was thinking about trying a batch with just the concentrate. The Pomegranate sounds good as well. 


I will try the Super Kleer on the next batch and maybe try the cold stablization technique I spent all night reading about from the forum



.


Pat


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## peterCooper (Jan 2, 2006)

Once you get started you can't stop.

Pat,

I'm thinking about filtering. I know the buon vino filter is out of my reach 
but I think the Vinibrite I could go for. It'll take a bit longer to filter, but still 
less than an hour for a 6 gallon batch. 

I've only read one post where someone worried about filtering stripping 
taste and color but other who use filters don't seem to think it does.

I think George has the Vinibrite for 30 something dollars. Not much to 
produce spectacularly clear wines.


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## pkcook (Jan 2, 2006)

Peter,


I read the thread on Martina's gravity feed filter, and think this would be the way I start. 


You are right about getting started. So far I've made welch concord, peach, watermelon, raspberry, grapefruit, pineapple, black table grape (wally world), and cranberry in 1 gallon batches. The watermelon was a bust! I broke down and bought two 6 gallon carboys and a larger bucket and repeated the peach batch. The peach retained the peachy flavor extremely well.With that much wine, Iexperimented with different sweetnesses. I made 5 bottelsdry, 10 bottles semi-sweet, and 15 bottles dessert style (My wife likes the really sweet stuff!). 


My brother-in-law has 35 acres in wine grapes in KY, sothis fall I will attempt my firstCabernet Franc from fresh grapes (my payment for helping to harvest).


Pat


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## Harry (Jan 2, 2006)

Welcome Pat 


Let us know and we will go and help with the harvest for some grapes LOL


Harry


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## pkcook (Jan 2, 2006)

Thanks Harry,


Last year the birds enjoyed more of the cropthan anyone, so I wasn't needed for the small harvest. Hopefully this will be a better year.


Pat


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## Waldo (Jan 3, 2006)

Could you make a wine just from the concentrates?


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## pkcook (Jan 3, 2006)

Properly reconstituted, this stuff is the closest to the tree/vine that I have found! I am confident that the concentrates would make very good wine. I'll be sure and keep you posted on the progress when I receive it and get a batch started.


Pat


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## Waldo (Jan 3, 2006)

Thanks Pat...I may order me some of the Blueberry and give that a whirl. My gallon I made from berries was really good and is now gone and left me wanting more


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## masta (Jan 3, 2006)

Waldo...the blueberry concentrate is amazing stuff...24 lbs of berries to make a quart!!!! I ask them what the ratio of cherries to concentrate was and didn't get a good answer but it has to close to the blueberry based on the brix of the concentrate.


I have a order ofcherry and cranberry in route to Valley Brew. I need some more cherry for my Melomel and the cranberry makes an awesome drink with vodka...check out my post in food and wine.


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## pkcook (Jan 3, 2006)

Waldo,


I'm not a fan of blueberries, but if you try the concentrate, let me know how it comes out. 


Pat


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## Waldo (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks Masta......That sounds really good.


Will do Pat.Going to get an order in today.


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## n5odj (Jan 14, 2006)

Update..... Just as a reminder, I earlier asked about the finevinewines apple concentrate flavoring.


My apple wine is turning out WONDERFULLY. This is by far my best batch of anything so far. It tastes a bit like pinot grigio. Very light bodied like that. The initial overwhelming flavor of alcohol is now gone.


I've added 3 ounces (from the 4 ounce bottle)of the aforementioned apple concentrate &amp; think that will just about do it. So if anyone is considering making some apple wine from grocery-store-bought apple juice, I say go for it.


Robert in the hills of NC


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## Waldo (Jan 14, 2006)

Thanks robert...Will give it a try on my next batch


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