# Equipment (or not) for cold stabilization



## BarrelMonkey (Jan 3, 2022)

I'm curious as to how people are doing cold stabilization (or temperature controlled fermentation for that matter), particularly for batches of (white) wine in the 15-30gal range. I don't have any suitable equipment right now so it seems my options are (in increasing order of cost):

(i) Leave outside (or in a covered location exposed to outside temperatures) in the winter. No cost, but little or no control over temperature
(ii) Some sort of fridge/freezer. Can control temperature but limited capacity - 1 carboy at a time, or maybe would fit a 60L/15gal tank?
(iii) Glycol chiller system with either in-vessel chilling elements or jacketed tanks. The best solution, but can get really expensive.

Any recommendations (or other ideas) welcomed!


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## winemaker81 (Jan 4, 2022)

When I lived in NY, my porch rarely dropped below freezing, so I simply put carboys on the porch for a week or two, keeping an eye out for a major temperature drop. An acquaintance purchased a used refrigerator and removed all the shelves. He could fit a carboy inside and cycled his wines through it all winter. Depending on the shape of a tank, a chest freezer might work, but you'd have to dial the temperature up to 32 F or above.

Beyond that, you probably need a device like a cooling jacket.

The most cost effective solution may be to move 15 gallons into three 19 liter carboys, and cycle them through a refrigerator.


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## BarrelMonkey (Jan 5, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> When I lived in NY, my porch rarely dropped below freezing, so I simply put carboys on the porch for a week or two, keeping an eye out for a major temperature drop.



I'm thinking this might be the best option for me in the short term. We do get frosts here but it's rare for the temperature to go below 28F. I may need to build some sort of enclosure to provide some degree of temperature control/protection and dissuade curious critters...


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## ratflinger (Jan 5, 2022)

Used refrigerator? Looks like you could 2 carboys into one. There's always some on Craigslist, or a used appliance store.


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## justsgm (Jan 6, 2022)

I have cold stabilized 50-60 gallons of whites and rose' at a time using both chest freezers and stand up freezers. You can buy a used freezer for a couple hundred bucks. To use a chest freezer you would need some plastic tanks that fit the inside dimensions of the freezer. These plastic water tanks come in different configurations and are generally used for water in campers and RV's. After matching the tanks to the freezer then plug the freezer into temperature controller. Then set the controller between 25-30 degrees and your ready to start cold stabilization. I used an Inkbird controller from Amazon which are not that expensive. 

I also cold stabilized in a stand up freezer. For the stand up you have to make sure that all the shelves are removable so your tank can fit inside. Same arrangement with the Inkbird controller. I found a standup freezer that would hold a 200 litre stainless tank for large batches. Good luck


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## Rice_Guy (Jan 6, 2022)

* the cheap answer is to put outside, in N California you may want to dampen the swings of temp as by putting in a cow tank filled with water (maybe add ice jugs in the daytime) or taping together an insulation board box.
* chest freezer with an Ink Bird controller at 33F does it in about two weeks, ,,, you don’t have to have the whole tank in the chest, there will be enough chilling just by having the bottom 30 inches inside and wrapping the top of the tank with a moving blanket. ,,,, I have a dorm fridge in the wine area and have been tempted put it sideways then to cut a circle in the new top.

? How often do you want to chill a tank? a glycol system says every year. ,,, on a one shot trial I could tape together a foam board box with my dorm fridge (door removed) as one side and cool a tank for a few weeks.


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## justsgm (Jan 6, 2022)

Outside will work when you have a constant temp at or slightly below 32F. But it is unpredictable and when weather drops below 20F your wine turns into a slushy. With a used freezer and an inkbird set at 25F I can cold stabilize in 3-5 days.


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## ChuckD (Jan 6, 2022)

Hope it’s not too off-topic but are cold crashing and cold stabilization the same thing?


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## ChuckD (Jan 6, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> I have a dorm fridge in the wine area and have been tempted put it sideways then to cut a circle in the new top.


I’m not an HVAC guy but I don’t think you can do this. I believe the compressor needs to sit upright.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 6, 2022)

ChuckD said:


> Hope it’s not too off-topic but are cold crashing and cold stabilization the same thing?


Yes.

I use "cold stabilization" as I get a _really _bad vibe when using the term "crash" in conjunction with glass carboys ....


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## mainshipfred (Jan 6, 2022)

ChuckD said:


> I’m not an HVAC guy but I don’t think you can do this. I believe the compressor needs to sit upright.



I believe you are correct. I've always been told when transporting a refrigerator it must be standing up.


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## BarrelMonkey (Jan 6, 2022)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not ready to invest the $$ for a glycol chiller and jacketed tanks yet, so I think I'll try the outdoors technique first.

For those that have tried it, is it awkward racking in and out of the fridge/freezer (chest or upright)? Seems that for an upright, you'd almost have to have some sort of spigot/valve on your tank, whereas could use a regular racking cane in the chest freezer?


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## managuense (Jan 6, 2022)

BarrelMonkey said:


> I'm curious as to how people are doing cold stabilization (or temperature controlled fermentation for that matter), particularly for batches of (white) wine in the 15-30gal range. I don't have any suitable equipment right now so it seems my options are (in increasing order of cost):
> 
> (i) Leave outside (or in a covered location exposed to outside temperatures) in the winter. No cost, but little or no control over temperature
> (ii) Some sort of fridge/freezer. Can control temperature but limited capacity - 1 carboy at a time, or maybe would fit a 60L/15gal tank?
> ...



Call Laffort USA and request a "sample" of Celestab. Add 1ml/L to your whites. For those quantities you're looking at a massive 56-113 ml addition. Boom, Cold stable  

In very rare situations you could see a calcium precipitation however this is very rare except for the few places around the world that seem to have high Calcium numbers in their white varietals (Most often Sauv Blanc). 

I've done tons of chemical and sensory research on this product and I can 1000% vouch that it works and it doesn't change the sensory on the wine at all.


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## Bmd2k1 (Jan 22, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Yes.
> 
> I use "cold stabilization" as I get a _really _bad vibe when using the term "crash" in conjunction with glass carboys ....


Do u cold stabilize All your wines?


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## winemaker81 (Jan 22, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Do u cold stabilize All your wines?


My response to @ChuckD was a facetious reaction to the term "cold crashing". I haven't cold stabilized in years, as it's not been necessary. Kits don't need it, nor do fruit wines if acid is added according to recipe. The grapes I've purchased in the last few years were low in acid, so I had to add, not remove.

When I lived in NY and made Finger Lakes whites, EVERYTHING needed cold stabilization, as they were all on the high side. This included reds, although they didn't drop as much acid.

Oddly enough, my 2019 second run is dropping crystals in the bottle, but I'm down to less than 2 cases so I haven't worried about it. When I pour for others, I pour carefully ... although I've had a mouthful of "crunch!" when I wasn't paying attention.  

This wine illustrates why winemaking is an art, not a science. The first run was started in October 2019, the second run 2 weeks later. All wine spent the winter in my cellar at 58 F. The second run was bottled between August and November 2020, and the first runs in October. The first runs have not dropped a single crystal, which is not surprising, as I had to add acid to all batches. The acid added to the second run _should_ have been fine.

In the spring of 2021, the second run started dropping crystals in the bottle -- _after _the temperatures warmed up (in mid-summer the cellar temperature is ~72F).

So ... the wine made it through one winter without dropping crystals, and through a second, then started dropping crystals after the temperature warmed up. I'm sure there is a scientific explanation for the phenomena, although it's entirely possible that Mother Nature and Dionysus are having a good time at my expense! 

I answered your question in far more depth than you expected, right? I excel at that!


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## Bmd2k1 (Jan 24, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> My response to @ChuckD was a facetious reaction to the term "cold crashing". I haven't cold stabilized in years, as it's not been necessary. Kits don't need it, nor do fruit wines if acid is added according to recipe. The grapes I've purchased in the last few years were low in acid, so I had to add, not remove.
> 
> When I lived in NY and made Finger Lakes whites, EVERYTHING needed cold stabilization, as they were all on the high side. This included reds, although they didn't drop as much acid.
> 
> ...


Whewwwwww! Thanks


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## ChuckD (Mar 24, 2022)

We are coming up on a week of temps that look perfect for cold stabilization. I’m going to sample my wild grape wine tomorrow (three months in bulk) to see where it’s at. If I decide to cold stabilize should I rack it first then again after stabilizing, or only rack after? Or can I leave it sit a few more months on the tartrate crystals?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 24, 2022)

ChuckD said:


> If I decide to cold stabilize should I rack it first then again after stabilizing, or only rack after? Or can I leave it sit a few more months on the tartrate crystals?


There's no point in racking ahead of time.

As long as the wine is cold, you can ignore it. Before it warms up, rack it.

Keep in mind that you can remove too much acid, so think before you leave it for months.


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## ChuckD (Mar 24, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> There's no point in racking ahead of time.
> 
> As long as the wine is cold, you can ignore it. Before it warms up, rack it.
> 
> Keep in mind that you can remove too much acid, so think before you leave it for months.


If I do it will only be four or five days in the garage. We are expecting lows in the 20’s and highs in the mid 30’s.
I may not even do it because I’m thinking of blending with my elderberry which had a pH of 3.49 last time I checked. It may be better to leave it and keep my options open.


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 25, 2022)

Chuck you had a wild grape with a starting pH of 3.06 and seem to be at 3.2 lately. Since it is a northern I am going to guess that it is excessive as over 1% TA. Correct me if I am mixing threads.
Q? Do you want the finished dry? if so then you have to pull as much acid out as possible. , , , Do you want a sweet finished wine? if so you could leave some or all the acid in.
As far as a 3.49 wine, that is in a good place now. Elderberry has lots of bitter/ tannin flavor which will jump on the tongue magnifying any acid flavors. For balance if you push the TA up it will need lots of sugar.

? ? ? what is your sweetness goal? the TA will help predict how it comes out. (when you last racked wild grape did you taste the lees as is and with sugar?)


ChuckD said:


> If I do it will only be four or five days in the garage. We are expecting lows in the 20’s and highs in the mid 30’s.
> I may not even do it because I’m thinking of blending with my elderberry which had a pH of 3.49 last time I checked. It may be better to leave it and keep my options open.


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## ChuckD (Mar 25, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> Chuck you had a wild grape with a starting pH of 3.06 and seem to be at 3.2 lately. Since it is a northern I am going to guess that it is excessive as over 1% TA. Correct me if I am mixing threads.
> Q? Do you want the finished dry? if so then you have to pull as much acid out as possible. , , , Do you want a sweet finished wine? if so you could leave some or all the acid in.
> As far as a 3.49 wine, that is in a good place now. Elderberry has lots of bitter/ tannin flavor which will jump on the tongue magnifying any acid flavors. For balance if you push the TA up it will need lots of sugar.
> 
> ? ? ? what is your sweetness goal? the TA will help predict how it comes out. (when you last racked wild grape did you taste the lees as is and with sugar?)


My wife and I generally prefer wines described as semi sweet. Although as we get more adventurous in our wine exploration we find our preferred sweetness level has been going down. 

I have never tasted the lees of a wine. Is this a thing most people do and what are you looking for? I will sample the wine tonight to see where it is. Last I checked it was still pretty acidic tasting and had the strong foxy aroma. I have yet to oak the wine as I was waiting until the 3-month mark when I would rack it.

I’ll taste the elderberry as well.

This is one more reason I need to get some chemicals to do the TA testing!


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 25, 2022)

* “pretty acidic” translates into the wine has too many molecules of acid. With your low starting pH this is expected. (Note sugar fixes acid, ex. a cola is about 10% sugar with the pH at 2.5.). I have had five gallon glass carboys in the garage starting at Christmas. If you are efficient at creating bitartrate do it soon or wait for 2023 or refrigerate it.


* there was a post above saying rack after pulling out wine diamonds. I hate instructions that run on the calendar instead of based on a functional trait as it has settled.
* functionally the purpose for the numbers is to set product specifications so newbies can run a factory. The TA numbers are useless if they don’t correlate with your tasting test so learn what tastes good.
* in the US market most wine is in the table wine category 1.002 to 1.010.


ChuckD said:


> My wife and I generally prefer wines described as semi sweet.
> I have never tasted the lees of a wine. Is this a thing most people do and what are you looking for? I will sample the wine tonight to see where it is. Last I checked it was still pretty acidic tasting and had the strong foxy aroma. I have yet to oak the wine as I was waiting until the 3-month mark when I would rack it.
> 
> I’ll taste the elderberry as well.
> ...


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## ChuckD (Mar 25, 2022)

Rice_Guy said:


> glass carboys in the garage starting at Christmas. If you are efficient at creating bitartrate do it soon or wait for 2023 or refrigerate it.


I was thinking it only took a week or so for cold stabilization? I do have an empty refrigerator in the garage that we use for excess garden produce. I can always use that if more time is required.


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 25, 2022)

I have not seen any articles that describe the kinetics. 
There are a few references on WMT that use week long times and Chuck off vinters puts his in a chest freezer for two weeks.
Some of the industry references mention being slow so they seed to speed and gum arabic is known to slow the process of growth.


ChuckD said:


> I was thinking it only took a week or so for cold stabilization?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 26, 2022)

ChuckD said:


> I was thinking it only took a week or so for cold stabilization? I do have an empty refrigerator in the garage that we use for excess garden produce. I can always use that if more time is required.


IME, at least a week. Since you can control the fridge (no danger of a temp drop harming the wine), leave it up to a month. 40 F or less will give you the most results. Research indicates 32 F will give you the strongest results.

A research paper distance runner sent me states that the same results are achieved with temps from 32 F down to the freezing point of wine. IMO 32 is the best target as there is no chance of the wine freezing.


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## Ohio Bob (Mar 26, 2022)

What’s the difference between “most” results and “strongest” results?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 26, 2022)

Ohio Bob said:


> What’s the difference between “most” results and “strongest” results?


Nothing. Poor choice of words on my part.

Cold stabilization is not an all-or-nothing action. I've had crystals drop at 58 F. The colder the temperature (to the above stated minimum), the lower the saturation threshold, and the more crystals will drop out of suspension.

It's also time dependent, e.g., chilling for a week will produce more crystals than for a day.

And, if there isn't excess tartrates, nothing will drop, regardless of other factors.


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 26, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> And, if there isn't excess tartrates, nothing will drop, regardless of other factors.


Cold crashing does not work on other crops as apple or gooseberry or raspberry. Grapes are the main species with tartaric acid and for potassium tartrate to crystalize there also needs to be an excess of potassium.


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## Jim Welch (Mar 26, 2022)

BarrelMonkey said:


> I'm curious as to how people are doing cold stabilization (or temperature controlled fermentation for that matter), particularly for batches of (white) wine in the 15-30gal range. I don't have any suitable equipment right now so it seems my options are (in increasing order of cost):
> 
> (i) Leave outside (or in a covered location exposed to outside temperatures) in the winter. No cost, but little or no control over temperature
> (ii) Some sort of fridge/freezer. Can control temperature but limited capacity - 1 carboy at a time, or maybe would fit a 60L/15gal tank?
> ...


I don't cold stabilize at least not yet but when I make white wines I do employ temperature controlled fermentation using the fermentation chamber (FC) I built for beer brewing years ago. It is not pretty and more than one of my friends have independently referred to it as being"MacGuyver-ed" up but I keep it in my basement where looks do not matter and it actually works like a charm, excellently even, if I don't say so myself! Using it it I've made award winning beers, temperature control is critical in beer making.

I will tell you how I made mine. I got a Kenmore deep freezer which is the same size as a dorm fridge, the hinges had gone bad and it leaked external air terribly but the refrigeration system still worked very well. Using a heavy duty solder gun with a de-soldering attachment I stripped the entire case and insulation. Then I made a large box with piano hinged doors using 2x3 studs for a frame and 1/4" luan plywood for the exterior sheathing. I well insulated it with 2 1/2" of insulation board, similar to Styrofoam. I use an STC-1000 temperature controller for temperature control but there are other similar possibly superior options. I also have a low wattage heater, made for reptile enclosures to provide heat when necessary. Using a small computer fan to constantly circulate air prevents temperature stratification. This FC is quite large, it will fit 3 half kegs with room to spare, when I make beer I make 14 gallon batches and ferment in 1/2 Sanke kegs which have a 15.5 gallon capacity. I specifically designed it for 1/2 kegs so it has a horizontal orientation but could have made it any shape or orientation.

I don't know if you want to go this route but if you'd like to see pictures of it I can post some here when I get home from a weekend at my beach place.


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## tmcfadden932 (Mar 26, 2022)

Tartrates fall out quicker as the wine gets closer to freezing. You can speed things up when the wine gets cold by adding cream of tartar to seed the wine. All cream of tartar comes from the wine industry. At freezing the tartrates will drop out in about three days. About 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons and stir well. You need to rack after the tartaric crystals drop out so they don't dissolve when the wine warms back up. 

A friend worked in the wine industry in Australia, where they would put in 5lbs into a 5000 gallon tank of white wine and shovel out the crystals 5 days later.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 26, 2022)

tmcfadden932 said:


> A friend worked in the wine industry in Australia, where they would put in 5lbs into a 5000 gallon tank of white wine and shovel out the crystals 5 days later.


I assume Australian whites are acidic?


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## tmcfadden932 (Mar 26, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I assume Australian whites are acidic?


White wine usually is finished to about 3.45 pH and reds to about 3.6. The pros know when to harvest to hit those numbers after cold stabilization. Cold stabilization is done so that the consumer doesn't find "glass shards"' in their wine as well as adjusting the acidity.


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## BarrelMonkey (Mar 26, 2022)

Jim Welch said:


> ...I do employ temperature controlled fermentation using the fermentation chamber (FC) I built for beer brewing years ago...
> 
> I don't know if you want to go this route but if you'd like to see pictures of it I can post some here when I get home from a weekend at my beach place.



I am not the greatest DIYer in the world but I would be interested to see it! I do have an old dorm-size fridge (not freezer) with a bad door which might be adaptable as a fermentation chamber for whites...


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## Jim Welch (Mar 31, 2022)

BarrelMonkey said:


> I am not the greatest DIYer in the world but I would be interested to see it! I do have an old dorm-size fridge (not freezer) with a bad door which might be adaptable as a fermentation chamber for whites...


 Here you go, sorry for the large file size if one is on a phone! I'm including pics of the first two beers I made with it. Shortly after these I switched to fermenting in sanke kegs with a thermowell so the temp controller is reading the temp at or near the center of the wort.


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## Bmd2k1 (Nov 8, 2022)

reviving thread for a quick check...

Anyone Cold Stabilizing their White kits before racking em for bulk aging? (My sense from re-reading this thread, is that for kits it really isn't needed - but I'm curious all the same.)

Cheers!


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## winemaker81 (Nov 8, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Anyone Cold Stabilizing their White kits before racking em for bulk aging? (My sense from re-reading this thread, is that for kits it really isn't needed - but I'm curious all the same.)


Nope. As you guessed, it's not necessary. Cold stabilization shouldn't be performed if the wine doesn't taste acidic -- it may work, but then it may reduce the TA too much, leaving the wine flabby. As always, don't fix it, if it's not broken.


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## BarrelMonkey (Nov 8, 2022)

Worst case scenario is that you'll get some 'wine diamonds' (tartrate crystals) in your bottles if you chill them for an extended period of time and/or low temperature. They're harmless and sometimes found in commercial wines as well. 

The exception is that if you're making sparkling wine you really need to prevent tartrate crystals from forming - they can act as nucleation sites for bubbles and lead to explosive gushing when you open the bottle.

There are also additives which can augment or replace cold stabilization - I have read way too much about these over the past few weeks since I plan to cold stabilize in kegs outdoors this winter and I'm not convinced that our mild Californian winters will be sufficient. (And I'm planning to make sparkling wine...)

The alternatives treatments are essentially polymeric molecules that sequester microcrystals and prevent them from growing:
- Metatartaric acid (MTA) - as the name suggests, derived from tartaric acid; however its effects only last 1-2 yrs depending on storage conditions
- Gum arabic - some kinds seem to have a stabilizing effect in wines that don't need too much stabilization.
- Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) - Has good efficacy and longer lasting than MTA. 
- Potassium polyaspartate (KPA) - the new kid on the block, only approved for commercial wines in the US in the last few years. I think Enartis is the leading (only?) US supplier, they have a line of products under the brand name 'Zenith'. Could be diffcult to get in quantities that make sense for the home winemaker.


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