# WineXpert kit goof?



## Robert R (Feb 7, 2021)

I am using a Speidel 30L fermenter for only the second time, and my goof was not marking a gradation line for 23L ahead of time, resulting in me losing track of how much water I was adding to the 14L WineXpert kit (Double Noir LE20, Gamay Noir and Pinot Noir, supposed to make 6 gal.), and underfilling by over 2 liters. Ferment completed several days ago, and today I racked to a 5-gal carboy, and had enough left to fill two 750ml bottles (with some lees coming up with the siphon). If I had racked to a 6-gal carboy, I would have needed probably 3 bottles to top off with, hence the 5-gal. My question is have I goofed too badly? The wine tastes pretty good, but hard to really tell at this stage for me. What do I do with the 2 bottles in the fridge, keep to top off with? Will the sediment drop out soon? I'm about to start another WE (Private Reserve Nebbiolo) kit, so what about adding the bottles to it? I don't have anything to airlock them with, so I've got tapered corks in for now. SG is about .992, so I'm not worried about exploding bottles. 
I was going to bulk age for 6-8 months before bottling but may not now.


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## Brian55 (Feb 7, 2021)

You most likely made the wine better by shorting the water. I usually need 2-3 bottles to top off a 6-gal carboy. On 30L Speidels the 23L mark is at the bottom of the ring that bulges out, just above the label.


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## Robert R (Feb 7, 2021)

@Brian55 Well, before I started the next batch (just pitched), I added 23L water 1L at a time and marked levels with a sharpie starting at 14L. Just under that ring is where I hit 23L.
Still not sure what to do with those two extra bottles, other than leave in the fridge as reserve.


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## Brian55 (Feb 7, 2021)

Robert R said:


> @Brian55 Well, before I started the next batch (just pitched), I added 23L water 1L at a time and marked levels with a sharpie starting at 14L. Just under that ring is where I hit 23L.
> Still not sure what to do with those two extra bottles, other than leave in the fridge as reserve.


Save them for topping up.


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## ratflinger (Feb 7, 2021)

You sure? Mine shows about 3/4 inch below the bottom of the ring. I measured 6 gallons there by dumping 6 one gallon bottles of water in.


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## Brian55 (Feb 7, 2021)

ratflinger said:


> You sure? Mine shows about 3/4 inch below the bottom of the ring. I measured 6 gallons there by dumping 6 one gallon bottles of water in.


Yep. I own three of them. German engineering, accurate to within a 16th of an inch between all three.


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## StreetGlide (Feb 8, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> Yep. I own three of them. German engineering, accurate to within a 16th of an inch between all three.



Yup exact same spot on my 2.


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## Swedeman (Feb 8, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> German engineering, accurate to within a 16th of an inch between all three.


I wish I could say the same about all the PET carboys I have from the Vintage shop. Surprisingly inaccurate (the total volume that is).


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## ratflinger (Feb 9, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> Yep. I own three of them. German engineering, accurate to within a 16th of an inch between all three.



LOL - My wife is German, I know all about German Engineering


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## Robert R (Feb 9, 2021)

My WE Nebbiolo kit is going great! When I went to punch the bag of skins this morning, it was still submerged, and there was probably an inch of foam on the juice. The yeasties are happy happy. That kit came with oak sawdust for primary and cubes for later. I put the sawdust in a small mesh bag (ok, a rinsed and sanitized knee-high stocking) to keep from clogging the racking cane later, but still get the benefit of the oak.


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## szap (Feb 10, 2021)

Robert R said:


> My WE Nebbiolo kit is going great! When I went to punch the bag of skins this morning, it was still submerged, and there was probably an inch of foam on the juice. The yeasties are happy happy. That kit came with oak sawdust for primary and cubes for later. I put the sawdust in a small mesh bag (ok, a rinsed and sanitized knee-high stocking) to keep from clogging the racking cane later, but still get the benefit of the oak.


I don't know if it's from the initial addition of bentonite but I find that the sawdust as well as the cubes adhere to the bottom of the fermenting bucket or carboy well enough that clogging the siphon has never been an issue. BTW the wife loves the Nebbiolo wine I have made from kits. With the skins and cubes you are apparently doing one of the top end kits. Which brand are you doing?


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## Robert R (Feb 10, 2021)

@szap I'm doing the WineXpert Private Reserve Piedmont Nebbiolo. First time I've tried that grape. I'm not practiced enough to keep from sucking up some sediment when I rack from primary.


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## szap (Feb 10, 2021)

I try to limit the amount of sediment transfered from the primary but with the high dollar kits I always do an additional racking.


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## Robert R (Feb 10, 2021)

szap said:


> I try to limit the amount of sediment transfered from the primary but with the high dollar kits I always do an additional racking.


Oh, I'll rack it again, maybe twice over the next month.


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## szap (Feb 10, 2021)

I do the first rack after the initial 2 weeks, then again with a week or two to go and then I rack to a bottling bucket for bottling. Doing this I am able to get every drop without sediment.


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## Carrie Smith (Feb 11, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> Yep. I own three of them. German engineering, accurate to within a 16th of an inch between all three.


I am using a Speidel for the first time. I couldn’t find any directions anywhere. I am using it for white wine kits. Can you give me any guidance? Does the wine stay in it from start to finish? Do you de-gas it per the kit instructions and stir all the lees back into the wine? How long would you recommend bulking aging in it - or would you want to remove the wine at the 4 week mark to get it off the lees? What kind of wine do you make in yours? 


Brian55 said:


> Yep. I own three of them. German engineering, accurate to within a 16th of an inch between all three.


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## Robert R (Feb 11, 2021)

I rack mine off the lees into a carboy when primary ferment is done. There's too much headspace in the Speidel.


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## Brian55 (Feb 11, 2021)

Carrie Smith said:


> I am using a Speidel for the first time. I couldn’t find any directions anywhere. I am using it for white wine kits. Can you give me any guidance? Does the wine stay in it from start to finish? Do you de-gas it per the kit instructions and stir all the lees back into the wine? How long would you recommend bulking aging in it - or would you want to remove the wine at the 4 week mark to get it off the lees? What kind of wine do you make in yours?


For whites, I rack into a carboy as soon as fermentation starts to slow, which is typically within 5-7 days. You can rack back into it later for bottling day as an option, if it's empty at that time.


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## Brian55 (Feb 11, 2021)

Robert R said:


> I rack mine off the lees into a carboy when primary ferment is done. There's too much headspace in the Speidel.


I do this for white, and red without skins. Reds with skins stay in the Speidel for at least 4 weeks for an EM. Head space is a non issue if you put it under airlock prior to fermentation being complete.


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## Robert R (Feb 11, 2021)

@Brian55 I've got a red with skins in mine now, 4 days in. What does the EM accomplish? Skins are in a mesh bag, it's a WE kit. Wouldn't the bag still need to be turned daily, or does it sink when ferment is done?


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## Carrie Smith (Feb 12, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> For whites, I rack into a carboy as soon as fermentation starts to slow, which is typically within 5-7 days. You can rack back into it later for bottling day as an option, if it's empty at that time.


Amazon advertised it as "Are you tired of carboys? Hate siphoning to transfer? Wish you could ferment larger batches in a single container?" There's a Canadian product called UWinemaker that seems similar and it's claiming to be an all-in-one winemaker and I thought that's what this is. Guess I'm about to find out. Pinot Grigio Sur-Lie. Maybe it'll be a new thing. Thank you for your help.


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## Brian55 (Feb 12, 2021)

Robert R said:


> @Brian55 I've got a red with skins in mine now, 4 days in. What does the EM accomplish? Skins are in a mesh bag, it's a WE kit. Wouldn't the bag still need to be turned daily, or does it sink when ferment is done?


Better end results, here are a couple links but there are plenty more if you search:




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Other - Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab


Following up on a recent post that included clips of Tim Vandergrift experimenting with extended maceration on an Amarone kit, I've decided to give it a try with a WE Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignon. Here's his first video on his experiment...




www.winemakingtalk.com








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How to perform extended maceration?


Hello All, Getting ready to make a wine kit that comes with must and grape skins. Going to be fermenting in a 7 gal bucket. Looking to carry out extended maceration. How do you guys typically carry this out? Do i have to refrigerate that fermenting bucket after primary is complete? Or is...




www.winemakingtalk.com


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## Brian55 (Feb 12, 2021)

Carrie Smith said:


> Amazon advertised it as "Are you tired of carboys? Hate siphoning to transfer? Wish you could ferment larger batches in a single container?" There's a Canadian product called UWinemaker that seems similar and it's claiming to be an all-in-one winemaker and I thought that's what this is. Guess I'm about to find out. Pinot Grigio Sur-Lie. Maybe it'll be a new thing. Thank you for your help.


It's possible, and the only option if you don't have any carboys, but I don't see it producing optimal results.


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## Dan M (Feb 13, 2021)

I'm somewhat of a newbie, still just making WE kits. I have 2 buckets for fermenting (1 with spigot for bottling), 1 plastic carboy and 1 glass carboy. For those of you using these Speidel vessels, I'm wondering what the advantages are? I see that they have handles and a larger top opening. Are they easier to work with? BTW, in searching the web I found that they sell a degradation label for the 30l Speidel that I'm attaching a picture of. It's probably not much better than Sharpie marks...


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## szap (Feb 13, 2021)

Dan M said:


> I'm somewhat of a newbie, still just making WE kits. I have 2 buckets for fermenting (1 with spigot for bottling), 1 plastic carboy and 1 glass carboy. For those of you using these Speidel vessels, I'm wondering what the advantages are? I see that they have handles and a larger top opening. Are they easier to work with? BTW, in searching the web I found that they sell a degradation label for the 30l Speidel that I'm attaching a picture of. It's probably not much better than Sharpie marks...View attachment 71551


I think it's hard to explain the advantages, but if you use other vessels and then go to speidel you'll see that it's a quality, well designed product that just makes things easier.


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## Robert R (Feb 13, 2021)

Wow, this WE Nebbiolo ferment is moving on. Just checked it (2/13), SG 0.998, pitched yeast Sunday the 7th. I've been stirring and flipping the bags of skins daily, and the bag with the sawdust too. I'm thinking seriously of giving it a couple weeks of EM, based of what I've read (links from @Brian55) if I leave the bag o' skins in, I should be able to hit it with kmeta once the primary ferment finishes, and slosh the Speidel a couple times a day to keep the skins wet on top. If I am misunderstanding something about EM, please tell me! Without degassing, shouldn't it release enough CO2 naturally during that time to fend off oxidation (in the Speidel)?


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## Brian55 (Feb 13, 2021)

Robert R said:


> Wow, this WE Nebbiolo ferment is moving on. Just checked it (2/13), SG 0.998, pitched yeast Sunday the 7th. I've been stirring and flipping the bags of skins daily, and the bag with the sawdust too. I'm thinking seriously of giving it a couple weeks of EM, based of what I've read (links from @Brian55) if I leave the bag o' skins in, I should be able to hit it with kmeta once the primary ferment finishes, and slosh the Speidel a couple times a day to keep the skins wet on top. If I am misunderstanding something about EM, please tell me! Without degassing, shouldn't it release enough CO2 naturally during that time to fend off oxidation (in the Speidel)?


Lock it down now, don't worry about the kmeta until you're ready to transfer to a carboy. The skins will be mostly submerged by the time fermentation stops. You can slosh it around if you like, won't hurt.


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## Robert R (Feb 13, 2021)

Brian55 said:


> Lock it down now, don't worry about the kmeta until you're ready to transfer to a carboy. The skins will be mostly submerged by the time fermentation stops. You can slosh it around if you like, won't hurt.


Alrighty then, will update when I rack it.


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## jgmann67 (Mar 15, 2021)

Good morning - 

Just kicked off my WE Nebbiolo last night. I made this kit previously (the old formulation). A few things surprised me with the new (smaller) kits. 

* I don't recall the grape skin pack being this large. 

* The new kit came with EC1118 yeast. I half remember the old one coming with RC212.

* When I brought it back up to 6gal, the SG was about 1.075. So, I dropped the skins in and left it over night. Another happy surprise, 24 hours and a really good stir later, and the SG was at 1.100. I couldn't get to the LHBS unfortunately, so I dropped the EC1118 and launched fermentation. 

The basement is a cool 57* F. So, I put the brew belt on and will let it go for a couple weeks (at least, maybe do an EM); then rack it off the skins into a clean carboy with the 90g of oak and some added tannins.


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## Swedeman (Mar 15, 2021)

jgmann67 said:


> the SG was about 1.075. So, I dropped the skins in and left it over night. Another happy surprise, 24 hours and a really good stir later, and the SG was at 1.100.


Now that is a bigger jump than what I have seen before. 

I have a note that the yeast that came with mine Nebbiolo was EC1118 as well.


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## jgmann67 (Mar 15, 2021)

Swedeman said:


> Now that is a bigger jump than what I have seen before.
> 
> I have a note that the yeast that came with mine Nebbiolo was EC1118 as well.



Me too. Usually I’ll see a jump of between .015 and .020.


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## Robert R (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm going to rack my nebbiolo this weekend. After EM of 5 weeks (6 from pitching yeast), will the skins be worth freezing for anything else (mead?), or just feed 'em to the chickens, guineas and peafowl?


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## jgmann67 (Mar 18, 2021)

Robert R said:


> I'm going to rack my nebbiolo this weekend. After EM of 5 weeks (6 from pitching yeast), will the skins be worth freezing for anything else (mead?), or just feed 'em to the chickens, guineas and peafowl?



I don’t save them. I feel like they gave up just about all their grapey goodness after 6 weeks. It’ll be interesting to see a video of your drunk birds.


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