# Oak Spirals



## RJBanks (Nov 6, 2010)

I am getting ready to start a CC Showcase Chateau du Pays and am inte3rested in using oak spirals. I am just beginning to learn these oak alternatives and have been happy with the results thus far. I used them for aging merlot and Zinfendal kits.

I am requesting opinions or directions on if this would be a good choice for this kit. Should I use them as a replacement of the oak powder that came with the kit or as an addition to in primary and then carry them over to aging?

Any and all responces are appreciated and thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Dugger (Nov 6, 2010)

I'm not familiar with this kit and I've only used the spirals a couple of times, but I use only the packaged oak in the primary and the spiral in the carboy.


----------



## Wade E (Nov 6, 2010)

Unless you like a lot of oak typically I would use the spirals as a replacement so that you dont over oak your wine. If using Spirals you should know you should either use them after your wine is all clear and aging as it takes longer to impart its oak due to much less surafce area exposed to your wine. If putting it in any earler you will most likely have to transfer your wine(rack) off of some sediemnt at some point and also rack the spiral over also. Some people use a pce of fishing string and tie it to the spiral and leave that hanging out of the carboy to easily remove it when needed.


----------



## RJBanks (Nov 6, 2010)

Thanks Dugger for responding. I really like the final taste with the spirals (in the Merlot and Zin) I just don't want to over oak this kit. It came with oak powder for the primary, I don't know if I should use both, or just the spirals in the aging or in both the primary and the aging.

Anyone else...........anyone......anyone......Bueller.......Bueller.....


----------



## Wade E (Nov 6, 2010)

Am I chopped liver!!!!!


----------



## RJBanks (Nov 6, 2010)

Thanks Wade. (You responded while I was posting my thanks to Dugger).

So to understand you correctly, you suggest I only use the spirals and and omit the powder and to start them in the primary and transfer them all the way through? The manufacturer states the spirals are good for 6 weeks and to use 2 of them for 6 gal.....Your thoughts Sir.


----------



## RJBanks (Nov 6, 2010)

Wade E said:


> Am I chopped liver!!!!!


Hardly!!!!!!! You have been my Wine Mentor from day one.......So I'd say more like Chateau Breone.


----------



## Wade E (Nov 6, 2010)

I agree with using 2 but maybe the diust and one spiral would work fine and you can start tasting it to make sure after about 2 weeks upon installing the spiral so as to not over oak and if you pull it early just freeze it till the next win e is ready for oaking.


----------



## Dugger (Nov 6, 2010)

The kits I used them with came with both packaged oak and the spirals ( one each) so that amount of oak was the norm for those wines and I think I kept them in for a couple of months or so ( I moved them over at racking). This particular kit may not take that much oak, but oaking is an individual taste so Wade's advice to put it in and try it periodically is good.


----------



## RJBanks (Nov 6, 2010)

Thanks Wade....and Dugger.... YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!! I'm going to use the powder in the primary and one spiral. Thanks again.


----------



## PAwinedude (Nov 8, 2010)

I would highly suggest you NOT bother with the powder....

The oak spirals will typically last for approximately 6 weeks. At the end of those six weeks (providing you leave the two spirals in the wine) your wine will be oaked similar to a wine that was barrel aged for approx 8 months.

Hint: Tie the two spirals together with sanitized fishing line and leave enough slack left over so you can pull the spirals out every couple weeks and sample the wine.

Also, the spirals are best used in the secondary. Many of the kits require the powder to be used during fermentation...you have no control over the wine at this time...hence, use the spirals in the secondary.

just my 1.5 cents


----------



## CowboyPhil (Jan 28, 2013)

Also can you reuse the spirals, for example in this case

I want to make a Cab Sauv. I want a fair amount of oak but nothing overpowering. Can I use it 2-3 weeks then remove it, then freeze it and then add it back to a chardonnay that I think would benefit from a hint of oak in it? Or would the spiral be spent. I am asking because it seems everything I have read the spirals are cheaper, but from what I can see they are 3 times more expensive. at 7.99 each (at cheapest) I can get a 1 lb bag of chips for that, sure I have to boil them first but it is hardly an issue.


----------



## Pumpkinman (Jan 28, 2013)

> I would highly suggest you NOT bother with the powder.


If the powder is untoasted oak, it might be there to help with any vegetal tastes and aroma.

I would not reuse the oak spirals, the spirals actually wick some of the liquid, if you put a spiral used in a cab into a chardonnay, you may not like the results.


----------



## jswordy (Jan 28, 2013)

CowboyPhil said:


> Also can you reuse the spirals, for example in this case
> 
> I want to make a Cab Sauv. I want a fair amount of oak but nothing overpowering. Can I use it 2-3 weeks then remove it, then freeze it and then add it back to a chardonnay that I think would benefit from a hint of oak in it? Or would the spiral be spent. I am asking because it seems everything I have read the spirals are cheaper, but from what I can see they are 3 times more expensive. at 7.99 each (at cheapest) I can get a 1 lb bag of chips for that, sure I have to boil them first but it is hardly an issue.



I reuse them in similar wines. It says on the package they can to be used for 6 weeks to be spent. I buy the medium roasted French oak and use about a third of a spiral per carboy in secondary. It only takes generally 5-10 days for me to get the degree of oak I want. I tie them up with a piece of sanitized fishing line and so I can pull them out whenever I want. It's best when I have several carboys lined up waiting. Out of one, into the next one.

When I first used them I thought I would add a bit of flavor to a rose table grape wine I had made on a lark. A whole spiroll was in for 10 days and the wine was totally overpowered. Drinkable, but tasted like a house bourbon. It was sippin wine. Now a year on, that wine has mellowed a lot in the bottles to a smooth taste. I tried two bottles on Saturday and wow!


----------



## Pumpkinman (Jan 28, 2013)

yea, sometimes if you add too much oak chips, you can end up with liquid lumber real fast.


----------



## Runningwolf (Jan 28, 2013)

I'f you're in a hurry the chips are the way to go. I just add them right in. I don't rinse or boil. Why rinse all the oak out? Oak chips are pretty much used up within 24 hours. 

I prefer oak spirals which do take a lot longer and will mimic a barrel more then chips will. But like said above, your wine will also taste better a year later.


----------



## TonyP (Jan 28, 2013)

jswordy said:


> I reuse them in similar wines. It says on the package they can to be used for 6 weeks to be spent. I buy the medium roasted French oak and use about a third of a spiral per carboy in secondary.



Jim, what do you mean in saying you use a third of a spiral? Do you cut them?


----------



## botigol (Jan 28, 2013)

I haven't used spirals much, so far, but when I have used them I broke them into varying-sized pieces depending on my best guess as to where to start. I have found that they introduce a good amount of their flavor early, maybe the first week or so. Just something else to keep in mind.


----------



## TonyP (Jan 29, 2013)

I've only seen American and French. Has anyone found Hungarian oak?


----------



## Ricky (Jan 29, 2013)

Very intresting thread..... Where's a good place to purchase ,the spirals, I only seen American and French so far in my search....


----------



## tonyt (Jan 29, 2013)

CowboyPhil said:


> Can I use it 2-3 weeks then remove it, then freeze it and then add it back to a chardonnay that I think would benefit from a hint of oak.



I reuse spirals all the time. I dont freeze them I just go from one carboy to another. I dont see why you couldnt freeze them though. Spray with k meta first. I wouldnt use in Chard though, use new for that and taste daily. There are few rules be creative and taste often.


----------



## GreginND (Jan 29, 2013)

You can buy them direct from the manufacturer in MN. I think some of the home brew shops are also carrying them now.

Here's a link to the Barrel Mill: http://www.thebarrelmill.com/infusion-spirals.html


----------



## Ricky (Jan 29, 2013)

Ok.... Thanks Greg... Is it common to oak a white wine,say with a light toast.I'm on my second white kit ,and neither kit came with any type of oak... En primeur kits...and is there a guide on oaking ...besides your taste buds...


----------



## TonyP (Jan 29, 2013)

Ricky said:


> Ok.... Thanks Greg... Is a common ,to oak a white wine,say with a light toast.I'm on my second white kit ,and neither kit came with any type of oak... En primeur kits...and is there a guide on oaking ...besides your taste buds...



Here's something that may help:

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/oakinfopaper09.pdf


----------



## Pumpkinman (Jan 29, 2013)

One of the most affordable places I've found spirals (and fast shipping) is Quality Wine and beer Supply.

I also break my spirals, depending on the wine I am making, my Melomel usually only get 1/2 depending on the type of wine, and the toast level.

I've layered oak using them as well, the beauty of it is that they do not impart a ton of oak at once like chips, so I can get the the flavors that i want out of them without having to worry about it happening very fast and over oaking. 

I like a nice Medium Plus toast on some of the big Italian Reds, I've had Medium chips impart a strong vanilla in one batch....not exactly what I was going for..
Here is a list of what the various toast levels will bring to your wines, borrowed from the barrel Mill website:

*Heavy Toast* brings pronounced caramelized, carbonized and toast flavors very quickly.

*Medium Plus Toast* Is between Medium and Heavy Toast. It has aromas of honey, roasted nuts and a hint of coffee and spices.

*Medium Toast* has less tannins but more bouquet, so will impart more aroma than flavor. It has a warm, sweet character with strong vanilla overtones.

*Light Toast fresh oak*, coconut and fruit flavors.


----------



## TonyP (Jan 29, 2013)

Tom, that's where I get mine. I asked before, but I'll try again; does anyone know where to get Hungarian oak spirals?


----------



## Runningwolf (Jan 29, 2013)

Interesting they are half the price of anyone else.


----------



## TonyP (Jan 29, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> Interesting they are half the price of anyone else.



With shipping they're about $17.00 for a pair of French oak. It seems low, but I believe Original Oak Infusion Spirals (the brand they sell) is one of the brands made by The Barrel Mill - it's a patented product.


----------



## Ricky (Jan 29, 2013)

TonyP said:


> Tom, that's where I get mine. I asked before, but I'll try again; does anyone know where to get Hungarian oak spirals?



TonyP the only place that i seen so far ,Doug at Brew and wine supplies has Hungarian oak sticks ( not a spiral) for 2 bucks each....question for you ,have you oaked a white wine and if you have what did you use ,and the wine it was used on,Thanks.......


----------



## Pumpkinman (Jan 29, 2013)

Tony,
The barrel mill has Eastern European Spirals, click here


----------



## TonyP (Jan 30, 2013)

Ricky, the only white I've treated with oak is Chardonnay. In that case, I try for buttery mouthfeel and a rich color, but without too much toast. For me, I prefer to little to too much. As a rule, less oak is used in Chardonnay than in reds, particularly bolder reds.


----------



## Putterrr (Jan 30, 2013)

how do the spirals compare to the cubes for imparting flavour/tannin/etc

thx


----------

