# Tweaking a Niagara wine-what to do?



## reefman (Jan 19, 2012)

I don't read much in this forum about (my favorite wine) Niagara wine.
I've got 5 gallons in work, from a Walkers juice Hotpack.
Using Joe's methods of improving, enhancing, etc.
What would you use on this wine?


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## Chateau Joe (Jan 19, 2012)

You may not like it but my first piece of advice would be stop buying Walker juice. My very first batch of wine was Walkers Niagara and I made a batch every year for my wife. But the quality of the juice varied from year to year. The last batch I ever ordered from them arrived with huge tartaric crystals in the bottom and the juice was brown. I said no more. The next year I went to Fulkersons and the juice I received from them was FAR and away better than anything I ever received from Walkers. Try getting juice from somewhere else.

Other than that be sure to cold stabilize your niagara and watch your SO2 levels carefully.


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## reefman (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks Joe, I have to mailorder my juice, I'm not near anyone who sells Niagara. As a matter of fact, the local vinyards that make Niagara, buy grapes from NY and North, beacuse the grapes do not grow well in this area.
I'll give Fulkersons a try.
When you refer to SO2 levels, are you cautioning about them being too high or too low?


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## Julie (Jan 20, 2012)

Not to stick up for Walkers but you know you can get a bad bucket from just about anywhere. 

I have never had niagara from Walker's but I know there are a handful of memebers who buy from them and they all seem to be happy with what they get.

Reefman, my husband and I like niagara, I would just let it ferment out, backsweeten between 1.005 and 1.010 and cold stabilize if you can.


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## grapeman (Jan 20, 2012)

Solid info from Julie all around. Be sure to add k-meta and sorbate before sweetening though so it doesn't referment. Often we assume everyone routinely does this, but you might not know. If any questions about it, just ask.


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## reefman (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks Julie.
Do you have a favorite (winery) Niagara (other than your own)?


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## reefman (Jan 20, 2012)

grapeman said:


> Solid info from Julie all around. Be sure to add k-meta and sorbate before sweetening though so it doesn't referment. Often we assume everyone routinely does this, but you might not know. If any questions about it, just ask.



Thanks Grapeman, 
I'm still clearing my first batch. It's taking longer than expected. I've used Bentonite and Sparkloid both separetly, and it's still not clear yet, but getting there. I started this batch 10 months ago, following Walkers (hotpack pail)instructions. It gets K-meta at each racking (3 times so far). I am holding off on the sorbate until it's clear and ready to backsweeten. 
All advise appreciated.


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## Julie (Jan 20, 2012)

reefman said:


> Thanks Julie.
> Do you have a favorite (winery) Niagara (other than your own)?



lol, Doug, I haven't bought a Niagara in years but when I did, we have two local wineries that make it and I would buy from them.

Try using superklear. I know there have been several on here who said that superklear worked when the sparkloid did not.


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## reefman (Jan 21, 2012)

Thanks Julie.
Having used 2 different clearing agents, and now a third (superklear), is my wine losing any charactor?


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## Runningwolf (Jan 21, 2012)

Ok last year I baught a boat load from Walkers. Regardless of what you hear there is bound to be a bad bucket from anywhere you buy eventually and juice does change dramatically from year to year. What Joe said, I believe did happen to him.

Walkers will adjust for sugar but not acid, so as Julie stated besure to cold stabilize (don't leave this part out). I like to blend niagara with concord, cranberry and a few other wines. As far as clearing goes I always use super kleer. I got two niagara's last year from two seperate sources. The one from Walkers cleared right away and the other one I tried three different agents. Guess what did it??? TIME AND THE THREE P"S!!!!!!!

Last thing...living not far from Walkers I here the rumors. Despite those rumors, I have always made good wine from their juice. Buying hot packs like you are currently, you have very limited choices. If you lived along Lake Erie or the Finger Lakes you could buy all the fresh juice you wanted in season.


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## reefman (Jan 21, 2012)

Everyone, thanks for your input.

My juice is from Walkers, and I began Primary last March (2011).
It's finally starting to clear. I used bentonite several months ago, and it didn't do much. Then about two months ago I used sparkloid on it, and it didn't do much the first two weeks. I have not touched it since then, and it's starting to clear on it's own, but 10 months seems long from everthing I've read.

Should I use the superklear or wait for it to finish clearing on it's own?
Should I cold stabilize now or after I think it's cleared? 
(it's degassed, but not sorbated or backsweetened yet.)
I've attached a photo.
Thanks for your help and suggestions.


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## Gr8zins (Jan 22, 2012)

I used Walkers for many years until I discovered that a grocery wholesaler in Buffalo was bringing in Cali juices in the fall for around the same price. Walkers juice was good for what Western New York can produce (French hybrids, Seyval, Niagara, Riesling etc.) but for about the same price I am now getting juices like Lodi Old Vines Zin, Cab Sauv, Syrah, Merlot. The New York versions of these grapes are a lot "thinner" and lack the depth and complexity that I get from the Lodi Gold and Regina juices. That said...The people at Walkers are great and have a great product for those who like the varietals they sell. We simply do not have the long growing season here that allows these grapes to ripen to their potential. Walkers does use some FingerLakes juice which is what you're getting at Fulkersons. I would not let one bad batch turn you off.


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## saramc (Jan 23, 2012)

*make Niag-a-ritas!*

when wine remains clear and the SG is less than 1.000, stabilize with k-meta & sorbate & proceed with back-sweetening. Use frozen limeade thawed, 2 can to 5 gallons *and* sugar to balance the acid. Desired SG 1.020 
WINE WILL BE CLOUDY, DON’T FILTER, KEEP THE LIME FLOATERS! 
Ready to bottle after a minimum of 7 days to ensure no fermentation activity!!
--Wine is typically ready to consume at the 6 month mark and starts to lose the lime impact at around a year-- IT IS REALLY, REALLY GOOD

Some like to use Sparkalloid to assist in clearing if you are going for straight Niagara.


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## saramc (Jan 23, 2012)

reefman said:


> Everyone, thanks for your input.
> 
> My juice is from Walkers, and I began Primary last March (2011).
> It's finally starting to clear. I used bentonite several months ago, and it didn't do much. Then about two months ago I used sparkloid on it, and it didn't do much the first two weeks. I have not touched it since then, and it's starting to clear on it's own, but 10 months seems long from everthing I've read.
> ...



_Question: did you rack at any point after the bentonite or sparkalloid additions? At this point I would personally rack your wine and then cold stabilize and see what happens. It can, in fact, take 10 months for a wine to clear. Do you plan on filtering?_


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## Runningwolf (Jan 24, 2012)

Doug, I would like to see pictures of your large scale trian sat up!!


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## reefman (Jan 24, 2012)

saramc said:


> _Question: did you rack at any point after the bentonite or sparkalloid additions? At this point I would personally rack your wine and then cold stabilize and see what happens. It can, in fact, take 10 months for a wine to clear. Do you plan on filtering?_



Saramc
I have racked three times, off the gross lees, and after each of the two clarifier addition. I just put it in the frig. to cold stabilize (it was at 27F this monring)
I was hoping not to filter, but I am considering it.
I'm not sure if I should try the Super Klear or ust patience to get it cleared.


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## reefman (Jan 24, 2012)

Runningwolf said:


> Doug, I would like to see pictures of your large scale trian sat up!!



Dan,
It's behind my carboy of Niagara 
Actually I dismantled it to make room for the wine making hobby.
I have sold off half of it on Ebay, and plan to sell some more. 
This coming spring, if time permits, I'm going to set up a garden railroad, and hopefully run it through the vineyard I hope to plant


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## oreoman (Oct 24, 2013)

I will be doing my first hot pack juice this weekend. Can I use my directions for my juice I get cold? The directions from Walkers just seem too much. I am very familiar with cold juice making.


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## reefman (Oct 25, 2013)

Just some of my rambling thoughts from my experience making the Walkers Niagara. (I've only had one cup of coffee this morning, but it was good, so my thoughts are not organized yet.) 
This was my very first batch of wine.
I followed the Walkers directions part way. I got some good advise on this list from several people (especially Julie, Sarmac and Running wolf), to make it better. 
1. Add pectic enzyme in the beginning. My juice was cloudy, and hard to clear, others have said the same. I added it after fermentation.. still worked, but not as well.
2. I back sweetened with invert sugar, but also added a couple cans of Welches White Grape juice concentrate. We like the grapey taste in our wine. I found that when you think you have the sweetness just right, it will get sweeter with age. The acid blend addition helps with that. When I pop a cork, I add a little acid blend, to improve the tartness. 
3. In addition to and before the pectic enzyme, I used two clearing agents. Clearing finally happened after the PE addition.
Other than that, I followed Walkers instruction. I was impatient, and probably should have just let it sit a few more months to clear on it's own. I have done that with a couple of batches since, and it really works. 
I over sulfited my Niagara too (Julie brought this to my attention) (I was paranoid (1st batch) that the bugs were going to convert my wine to vinegar.) 
I also cold stabilized it, but in hind site, I should have measured my acid/pH, before making that decision. 
I still have about 5 bottles left from this first batch, I just finished one last night. I didn't add the acid blend to this one, it was ok without it. 
I've noticed each bottle has it's own unique characteristics, or it's just my taste buds that are different with each bottle I open. It still tastes good.

I'm planning to order a Niagara and a Concord from them in the next month, and will incorporate all I have learned.

Search the forums for other Niagara threads, there are a few of them.


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## Turock (Oct 25, 2013)

I agree with reefman--Niagara is one of my favorite wines too. We make ALOT of Niagara almost every year and have been working with this grape for 24 years, so have discovered some secrets.

Niagara IS NOT the same year after year. Some years, it clears just fine with no special attempts, just a good dose of pectic enzyme, and other years it defies clearing. Bentiniting this wine in the primary is always recommended. But sometimes it can clear slowly if you're too conservative on the bentonite. A proper dose might be TWO Tbs. mixed in water per 5 gallons instead of using just one Tbs. 

Another good tip is using Lallzyme C-Max instead of regular pectic enzyme. It de-pectinizes at a more rapid rate and inproves the clearing of the wine later on.

Some years, it can be too acidic--other years it doesn't have enough acid. Weather conditions really seem to affect this grape. We like our Niagara to have a PH of 3.2 That level of acid really seems to bring out the great fruity characteristic of this grape. And the other thing we do is to use acid blend when we have to bring the PH down, instead of tartaric acid. That acid blend lends a nice profile that tartaric may not since it's a softer acid. 

We don't like this grape to get too ripe--we like the reserve acid on it. Now if you're using juice buckets, you have no control over this. There's no better Niagara than one you make from grapes. So if you can find grapes to pick yourself, then you can design the wine your way.


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## reefman (Oct 25, 2013)

Great advice Turock. I will use it with my next batch. Oh, and I planted 10 Niagara vines from cuttings this year, so in a couple years I should be using my own grapes.


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## oreoman (Oct 25, 2013)

Thanks much for the advice.


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## Turock (Oct 26, 2013)

You can use Super Kleer if you want. But the problem I have with it is it makes a white wine more golden in color. Understand that all white wines should have bentonite treatment in the primary. It removes the protein haze, makes the wine sparkle with good clarity, and heat stabilizes the wine so you don't get fallout under refrigeration.

Cold stabilization doesn't really work unless you're using potassium carbonate. Potassium carb is used post ferment. And most of the time, you won't be using calcium carb to get the PH higher, unless you have a year like we did in 2009. Most years, you'll be adding a little acid to get to the PH to 3.2, where a Niagara should be. I'm not sure what the goal is with the cold stabilization. This will rarely help clarity--it is used for acid reduction. If bentonite was used, and the clearing is very slow, sometimes a little refigeration can assist it in clearing. If you have protein haze, sometimes refrigeration can help that too. The best way to avoid the difficulty of clearing that you can have on Niagara is to always bentonite the primary, and use Lallzyme C-Max for your pectinase.


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