# 2021, what are your plans?



## NorCal (Feb 22, 2021)

My plan, all from grapes.

15-20 gallons Chardonnay
10 gallons of Rose, saignee from the reds
60 gallons of Mourvedre blend (GSM-ish) barrel.

Your Plans?


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## crushday (Feb 22, 2021)

@NorCal My plan, all from grapes:

Spring: Cabernet (Rattlesnake Hills), Sangiovese (Livermore) and Malbec (Rattlesnake Hills). Plan on keeping each 100% varietal.

This Fall, I'm planning on a Boudreaux blend. I’d like to simulate a wine by Andronicus that I really like. I’d also do 100% varietal of each in the blend and other blends from these grapes if I have enough left over.

Here’s the blend from Andronicus:

29% Merlot
26% Cabernet 
20% Malbec
10% Petit Verdot
10% Petite Sirah
5% Cab Franc


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## JustJoe (Feb 22, 2021)

I make all of my wine from fruit I gather from wild and from my garden. This year I plan to make;
20 gallons of Rhubarb
20 gallons of wild grape (Vitus riparia I believe)
6 gallons of elderberry
6 gallons of Marquette if my 3 year old vines produce enough


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## cmason1957 (Feb 22, 2021)

Oddly enough, my wife and I were having this discussion just yesterday. She suggested it was to early to make plans. I countered that plans can change, but one has to have goals. So given that, I am guessing we will be doing 3 or 4 kits this year, maybe more, I have 1 RJS Cru Select Italian Bella Bianco in the fermenter right now and two Winexpert Reserve Limited Release Washington Sangiovese Rose 10L Wine Making Kit sitting in the basement, waiting for probably this weekend to start. I'm sure something or other will peak my interest at some point.

We will also be doing some Chambourcin and/or St. Vincent from grapes, how much is up in the air. SWMBO suggested maybe 400 lbs total, which is possible. We may also do some Norton, just because we live in Missouri and well, somebody has to.


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## CDrew (Feb 22, 2021)

Goals! Plans have to wait for circumstances.

It's still 6-7 months away, but I would like:

1-An August harvest of Sauvignon Blanc. I'll be in Alaska Aug 31-Sept 11 so the wife might have to tend it. Which is fair because she'll drink 95% of it.

2-Primitivo-500 pounds or so. 300 for a normal dry wine and 200 for a Rose-5th year so I'll have a vertical to try

3-Syrah- 300-400 pounds 4th year

4- Something new. Last year I got surprise Barbera at the end. I'd do that again. Maybe CF will work out with @NorCal 

5- 4 pails of Reisling from Wine grapes direct for a later fall fermentation-complete with road trip to go get it

6-A small late cider. Maybe 5 gallons. One of my friends did a cider from local apples this year that was quite good.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 22, 2021)

My current plan is to purchase 15 or 16 lugs of Rhone grapes from west coast USA. I'm doing a blend, but currently have no preconceived notions regarding what that blend will be.

If the Sauvignon Blanc juice I lucked onto last fall turns out well, I'll make a couple carboys of that. I'm also thinking of a frozen bucket of white juice, possibly Gewurztraminer.


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## Vern (Feb 22, 2021)

From my small vineyard, Marquette 200 lbs. Perite Pearl 400lbs. And from Verona 300 lbs. I will saignee around 8 gallons for a rose. I also will have around 100 lbs. Frontenac Blanc. This will be my first attempt at white wine.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 22, 2021)

I'm up in the air myself. For the spring I'll probably do a S African Cab which will be my fourth year in a row. The 18 turned out very nice, the 19 still need to be blended and bottled and the 20 is too young to tell. Haven't made Malbec in a few years so probably going to do a Chilean. I wish I could get Argentinian but have no source. Also thinking about a couple buckets of Chenin Blanc from SA. 

Fall I'll do my usual local Norton, Tannat and PV. I missed the Washington State Cab Franc the last 2 years and if I miss it again hopefully I'll be able to get some local. Also I missed the local Petit Manseng last year due to family emergencies during harvest and won't miss it again this year. It might be my favorite white.

The last 2 years I've been telling myself I need to cut down on the amount of varietals and just make more of something, I just can never decide on what I want to cut.


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## dizzy (Feb 22, 2021)

Part two of wedding wines. I have 2 huge freezer bags of skins from 80lb of WA cabernet sauvignon last fall.
I want to do another red, and maybe experiment with a franken-rose: red skins in white juice. I'll head to Gino Pinto's for the spring shipment. Leaning towards Malbec, maybe Carmenere for the red. Unsure as yet for the white. Lots of time still, realistically not looking until next summer at this point (have friends/fam across the country and abroad).
As a side note might try to experiment with beer making too if I get bored. And my fiance will make a new batch of mead this summer and *maybe* I can get him to bottle up the two carboys of cider he has sitting around.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 22, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> The last 2 years I've been telling myself I need to cut down on the amount of varietals and just make more of something, I just can never decide on what I want to cut.


That was me, fall 2019 -- I made too many different things, which got complicated.

Fall 2020, the plan was to make a single Bordeaux/Meritage blend, so I'd have just a 1st and 2nd run to deal with. But I decided to experiment with different types of fermentation oak, and I decided to keep a small amount of each varietal separate as a control, and decided to keep the free run separate, and decided to do an oak experiment using Next Level Oak stix on the 2nd run, and got an opportunity on Sauvignon Blanc juice, and ....

Yup, I do it to myself. OTOH, I am having fun, amidst the complaining .....


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## Bubba1 (Feb 22, 2021)

I did a chilean Malbec last year that so far I am very happy with so I plan on doing the same this year with maybe a South African Cab. All grape but Im also planing on some major home renovations in the beginning of may so it all depends on the contractors time schedule.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 22, 2021)

I've been at full capacity for some time now and just getting around to bottling the 2018's. Halfway through those, but have started a couple kits in the last month or so. I may jump back on the Chilean train this spring and if so, might do another Carmenere/Petite Verdot. For fall, who knows. But as I'm emptying the last carboy's of 2018 and beginning to think about bottling the 2019's in the next couple months, I'm sure I'll have an idea or two.


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## Khristyjeff (Feb 22, 2021)

Being new to this craft (a corona virus wine-making baby as it were), I'll still be trying to *build inventory* this year. I've got 2 RJS En Primeur batches going now (Trio Red and Trio White). 

The next one will be *Blueberry* wine from juice from Walker's Juice. I've never purchased from them before and seeing some good comments on this site, wanted to give them a try. Also, hoping our fairly sizable rhubarb patch will provide a good source for a refreshing country wine. 

@joeswine thread "Tweaking Cheap Kits" has been an inspiration. I'd like to try 2 or 3 kits using some of these ideas. In the Fall, the plan is to pick some grapes to make a white wine (I did some Petite Pearl last year from Mitchell Vineyard in Wisconsin). They crush and press so that is helpful at my current skill level.

Finally, I often times buy kits on a whim (weird, huh) and can only assume that will continue to be the case in 2021.


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## wood1954 (Feb 23, 2021)

I’ll try some rose from my Marquette grapes, maybe half the harvest. Probably another 10 gallons of blueberry wine now that I know of a pick your own farm pretty close.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 23, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> Finally, I often times buy kits on a whim (weird, huh) and can only assume that will continue to be the case in 2021.


Weird? Nope! About half the kits I have purchased were on a whim -- anything from "it's on sale" to "hey! that looks interesting". I purchase from my LHBS so what is in stock at that moment drives what I buy.


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## bakervinyard (Feb 23, 2021)

I‘ve already started my wines this year. In January I started a batch of Island Mist Blueberry, added 2 pounds of sugar in the primary and about 25% of the F-PAC. I took 1 gallon to try making sparkling. I‘ll know in about a month. Made a second batch of Blueberry. Have a Island Mist Peach in primary fermentation now. Last week I made 3 gallons of Midnight Blackberry Port style wine. Found the recipe on I believe the recipe thread. I have a gallon of that with 3 pounds of dark cherries, 30 grams of oak and 16 ounces of brandy. Will blend together in a couple of weeks. ABV before fortifying is 18%.


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## Meadini (Feb 23, 2021)

Once I get this mead out of my primary I plan to do a Riesling kit and then a double noir on the heels of that. I visit family in Missouri several times each summer and I always bring home several lbs. of fresh berries-so plenty of mead. The 12 gallons of cider from last fall isn’t going to last, so I will probably double that next fall. I found an hbs in Downtown Denver that sells juice buckets every fall so probably 20 or so gallons of Cabernet and Pinot.


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## d v (Feb 26, 2021)

My local homebrew shop is starting pre-orders for grape must soon and I have enough space in my current brew to fit in a 6-gallon batch of wine. Not sure what type to go for though - keep going between a Malbec and a Pinot Grigio. I'm fond of dry, high ABV zins, but they might be difficult to pull off properly.


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## CDrew (Feb 26, 2021)

d v said:


> I'm fond of dry, high ABV zins, but they might be difficult to pull off properly.



Welcome to WMT. Making your described Zinfandel is actually no harder than any other red wine. Virtually any wine you make will have all the sugar fermented out, and thus "dry". So if you can get good Zinfandel grapes in your location, I'd say go for it. Then depending on Brix, look for a yeast strain that tolerates higher alcohol like Avante or EC1118 and you are in business.

I've made a Primitivo the last 4 years which is basically the same grape as Zinfandel and I can say there are no special secrets. Maybe one secret-give it a dose of a pectinase type enzyme to increase the color and body. Lots here including me use Lallzyme EX and EX-V for that purpose. Then just good wine making practices like nutritional adds for the yeast and you'll make the wine you want.

And here is some excellent free reading: *Mine Making Guide*


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## franc1969 (Feb 27, 2021)

I am probably going to skip spring again. I haven't bottled fall yet, maybe soon for the whites. Going to be really busy grafting apples and making an attempt at grapes, the currants are helping themselves. Some berries to come, I opted to buy those. No time or space for fermentation now. I have too many empty bottles in the way as it is, may have to get rid of them.


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## d v (Feb 28, 2021)

CDrew said:


> Welcome to WMT. Making your described Zinfandel is actually no harder than any other red wine. Virtually any wine you make will have all the sugar fermented out, and thus "dry". So if you can get good Zinfandel grapes in your location, I'd say go for it. Then depending on Brix, look for a yeast strain that tolerates higher alcohol like Avante or EC1118 and you are in business.
> 
> I've made a Primitivo the last 4 years which is basically the same grape as Zinfandel and I can say there are no special secrets. Maybe one secret-give it a dose of a pectinase type enzyme to increase the color and body. Lots here including me use Lallzyme EX and EX-V for that purpose. Then just good wine making practices like nutritional adds for the yeast and you'll make the wine you want.
> 
> And here is some excellent free reading: *Mine Making Guide*




Many thanks. I'm coming from mead-making so some of the process is familiar, but there are a lot of subtle but important differences and that guide will be an immense help! Appreciate your advice on zin as well - ordered a batch of grapes and will update as the ferment comes along.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 9, 2021)

Just received pricing from Washington Winemakers. They are a little up from last year.


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## NorCal (Aug 10, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Just received pricing from Washington Winemakers. They are a little up from last year.


$1.00 - $1.20 per pound doesn't sound all that bad picked and shipped to WA. Pricing this year for commercial quality grapes in the Sierra Foothills is $.75 - $1.00 per pound picked.


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## winemaker81 (Aug 10, 2021)

Last year I averaged $1.55/lb, shipped from CA to MA to NC.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 10, 2021)

NorCal said:


> $1.00 - $1.20 per pound doesn't sound all that bad picked and shipped to WA. Pricing this year for commercial quality grapes in the Sierra Foothills is $.75 - $1.00 per pound picked.



Yeah, but yours are Sierra Foothills, our are Lodi. Even though what we get looks and test OK I'm sure what you get are a higher quality. For the record my local fruit is $1.50 to $1.75 per pound. I think a lot has to do with our labor rate and the fact we don't produce as much as you do. What I like though with the local is I get the grapes the day or following day they are picked. Plus I get them from growers more interested in quality than quantity which I believe is what Lodi is all about, could be wrong about Lodi though.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 10, 2021)

I recently received a notice a peach farmer near Gettysburg has an over abundance of peaches and are selling them for $5.00 a basket of 25-28 lbs. I put an order in for 12 baskets. I never made that much before but I also can't seem to ever make too much peach.


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## dragonwithane (Aug 10, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I recently received a notice a peach farmer near Gettysburg has an over abundance of peaches and are selling them for $5.00 a basket of 25-28 lbs. I put an order in for 12 baskets. I never made that much before but I also can't seem to ever make too much peach.


Wow! Wish I knew that before I bought my peaches this year.


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## mainshipfred (Aug 10, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> Last year I averaged $1.55/lb, shipped from CA to MA to NC.



Still it's a lot better than driving 3+ hours each way. I hope your source comes through for you.


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## bjoll001 (Aug 11, 2021)

I am paying 1.95 / lb for Pinot Noir grapes Santa Maria Valley, CA and 1.60 / lb for Syrah Santa Ynez Valley, CA this year and have to pick up myself day of picking. Definitely more pricey that what others are paying but hopefully the quality makes up for it. It definitely adds up when doing 550 lbs each but I am investing in the future of my wine drinking.


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## bjoll001 (Aug 11, 2021)

550 lbs of Pinot Noir and 550 lbs Syrah to make age in two 30 gallon barrels. Syrah to age in new French oak barrel first while Pinot Noir in Neutral French oak barrel. Extra wine in carboys and bottles to account for topping up and wine loss during racking. Once Syrah is aged long enough in the new oak to not overdo it, will transfer into the neutral oak barrel and then transfer the pinot to the new French oak barrel for further barrel aging. Hopefully timing works out to rack out of barrels into tank when next years harvest is fermented and then be racked off the gross lees into these barrels to restart the cycle.


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## SLM (Aug 11, 2021)

I will be picking up cab in eastern Washington for $1.45. I believe I'm paying a bit of a premium due to it being a minimum order. It's a 3+ hour drive but there's something romantic about personally seeing the source vineyard.
I have also hit up a couple local wineries who agreed to sell me some of their fruit when it gets delivered. Varietals and price unknown, but it's only a 10 minute drive.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 20, 2021)

Dang! I just got bad news, and seeking input from the collective.

Our vintner's association had a group buy organized for Wash. State Merlot grapes. We just got word that the broker (Kendall) cannot fill our order due to a poor harvest.  I am very disappointed.

However, the neighboring club (1.5 hours away) is allowing us to piggyback on their order (if we fill a pallet), but it is only pails. I feel ambivalent about this. Here are the available reds:

California---Red Juices, $46 per pail
Alicante, Barbera, Cabernet Franc, Cabernet/Merlot (50/50), Cabernet Sauvignon, Carmenere, Grenache, Malbec, Merlot, Pinot Noir, Ruby Cabernet, Syrah, Zinfandel, White Zinfandel

Italy---Red Juices, $ 51 per pail
Amarone, Barolo, Brunello, Chianti, Lambrusco, Montepulciano, Nebbiolo, Sangiovese, Valpolicella


In addition to the above, I am on course to get a batch of Sauv Blanc and a batch of Riesling, both from Washington.

Any faves from the hive?


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## cmason1957 (Sep 20, 2021)

I did a Cab/Merlot (50/50) two years ago from California and it is turning out very nice. Barbera is always a nice blueberry note wine to have around.

<opinion>White Zinfandel is an abomination and should never be considered. </opinion>

at the negligible cost difference $0.15/bottle, I would find the Amarone, Brunello, Nebbiolo, and Valpolicella very interesting, particularly if I had skins to put in with it. My last juice buckets from California were plenty dark without the addition of extra skins, but they could use a bit more tannin.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 20, 2021)

That's got to be disappointing. I've only done one juice bucket in the last 4 years so I can't be of much help. If I was in the same situation I would agree with Craig and go with the Italian, simply because I never made one. But that's no to say you haven't.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 20, 2021)

I hate to even post this considering Paul's dilemma. We were supposed to receive our order Saturday but it got delayed a week because the Touriga and Sangiovese hasn't been picked yet. I hope it's because they weren't ripe and not that they couldn't get pickers. I'd hate to have 30 brix fruit. It appears from our California friends the harvest has been going on for awhile now.


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## Denden5136 (Sep 20, 2021)

All done with the primary for the below except the Mourvedre. My wife and I picked all of the grapes ourselves.

3 gallons of Pinot Noir (Central Valley, California)
6 gallons of Cabernet Sauvignon (Central Valley, California)
8 gallons of Cabernet Franc (Byron, Contra Costa County)
7 gallons of Syrah (Lodi)
5 gallons-ish Mourvedre (Brentwood, Contra Costa County)

Plan to do some 100% CS and CF, but will definitely also be blending of the 2
The plan is to do the same with the Syrah and Mourvedre, but it depends on how the Mourvedre primary finishes. It's not looking great
I could also play with an Australian style blend with the CS and Syrah
Pinot will stay as-is

I have all winter to think about blending and will change my mind 20 times between now and next spring. That is part of the fun of it.


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## CDrew (Sep 20, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> <opinion>White Zinfandel is an abomination and should never be considered. </opinion>



If you mean the white Zin sweetened Rose swill popularized in the 1980s and 1990s, I agree. But a Zin Rose made dry can be pretty darn good. Zin has an excellent balance of flavors and acid to make an exemplary Rose. It likely doesn't sell well, so very few places make it. People want the sweet stuff and so that's what they make.



mainshipfred said:


> I hate to even post this considering Paul's dilemma. We were supposed to receive our order Saturday but it got delayed a week because the Touriga and Sangiovese hasn't been picked yet. I hope it's because they weren't ripe and not that they couldn't get pickers. I'd hate to have 30 brix fruit. It appears from our California friends the harvest has been going on for awhile now.



Harvest is well underway. Overall this was a warm year and things are ripening a couple of weeks earlier than usual. Case in point; I picked Primitivo on Saturday and it was harvested at 27 Brix, and last year the same vineyard on the same weekend in 2020was at 24 Brix.

I also know that the Lodi and Clarksberg areas have been harvesting since mid August.

Here is a current sheet from Herringer in Clarksberg. If my attachement does not work, I'll come back and delete.


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## Meadini (Sep 20, 2021)

I just received an email stating that our grapes have been picked but won’t be transported until next week due to driver shortages. How concerned should I be about grapes sitting in a warehouse for 7-10 days? Or the juice buckets for that matter?


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## cmason1957 (Sep 20, 2021)

CDrew said:


> If you mean the white Zin sweetened Rose swill popularized in the 1980s and 1990s, I agree. But a Zin Rose made dry can be pretty darn good. Zin has an excellent balance of flavors and acid to make an exemplary Rose. It likely doesn't sell well, so very few places make it. People want the sweet stuff and so that's what they make.



I most certainly did not mean a wonderful Zinfandel Rose. That isn't what I think of when I hear (and shudder, just a little bit) White Zin, the abomination. 


And I know some folks think it is the best stuff ever, each to their own. Make and drink whatever you like.


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## distancerunner (Sep 20, 2021)

Chianti/Super Tuscan:

Ten lugs of Sangiovese and three of Merlot. All Lanza.

Meritage/Bordeaux blend:

Eight lugs of Merlot, two Cabernet Sauvignon, and one each of Cabernet Franc and Petit Verdot. All Lanza except the Cab Franc which will be central valley.

All will be fermented separately and bench tested before blending.


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## heatherd (Sep 20, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Dang! I just got bad news, and seeking input from the collective.
> 
> Our vintner's association had a group buy organized for Wash. State Merlot grapes. We just got word that the broker (Kendall) cannot fill our order due to a poor harvest.  I am very disappointed.
> 
> ...


You could skip that and go with frozen and shipped Brehm must or something similar.


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## CDrew (Sep 20, 2021)

Denden5136 said:


> All done with the primary for the below except the Mourvedre. My wife and I picked all of the grapes ourselves.
> 
> 
> 5 gallons-ish Mourvedre (Brentwood, Contra Costa County)
> ...



@Denden5136 -I have to ask if you got this Mourvedre from Michael at calwinebroker.com? He's the home wine broker guy in Brentwood which is why I ask.

I'm asking because I got Mourvedre through him in 2019 and it was a struggle all the way through. I thought I had done everything right but it was terrible when done and I poured out 10 gallons and bottled 10 gallons fermented with a different yeast that was not great but acceptable. Anyway, I think there is a problem with those grapes. The color was wrong, the fermentation didn't smell right, some un-identifiable factor is at work. I'd be curious to hear your story.

Not to bash calwinebroker but those Mourvedre grapes are not something I'll use again. I did make a Petite Sirah that I got through him that is very good.


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## franc1969 (Sep 20, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Dang! I just got bad news, and seeking input from the collective.
> 
> Our vintner's association had a group buy organized for Wash. State Merlot grapes. We just got word that the broker (Kendall) cannot fill our order due to a poor harvest.  I am very disappointed.
> 
> ...


I would do all the Italian juice , personally. That is an excellent price, I think I haven't found less than $65. I would do it this year but don’t really have time to drive on the specified weekend.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 20, 2021)

heatherd said:


> You could skip that and go with frozen and shipped Brehm must or something similar.



Yes, I just did that this spring! 3 buckets of must: Cab Franc, Cab Sauv, & Merlot, field-blended. I was looking forward to "real" fall grapes!


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## Khristyjeff (Sep 20, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Dang! I just got bad news, and seeking input from the collective.
> 
> Our vintner's association had a group buy organized for Wash. State Merlot grapes. We just got word that the broker (Kendall) cannot fill our order due to a poor harvest.  I am very disappointed.
> 
> ...


If you decided to take the club up on their offer, I would be willing to try a pail or two of the Italian ones. Milwaukee isn't a bad drive for us, plus I've never made wine from a pail of juice yet.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 20, 2021)

Khristyjeff said:


> If you decided to take the club up on their offer, I would be willing to try a pail or two of the Italian ones. Milwaukee isn't a bad drive for us, plus I've never made wine from a pail of juice yet.



PM sent.


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## winemaker81 (Sep 21, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Amarone, Barolo, Brunello, Chianti, Lambrusco, Montepulciano, Nebbiolo, Sangiovese, Valpolicella


If it were me, I'd go with something I hadn't made before. Most of these buckets are blends so you're using someone else's choice, but that should be ok. If I was choosing 3, I'd try the Barolo, Brunello, and Chianti.



winemaker81 said:


> *Posted 02/22/2021: *My current plan is to purchase 15 or 16 lugs of Rhone grapes from west coast USA. I'm doing a blend, but currently have no preconceived notions regarding what that blend will be.


Looking back, it's interesting (to me anyway) how my plans morphed in the last 6 months. In February I was strongly considering a single batch, a Syrah based Rhone blend. The blending grapes would probably include Mourvedre and Petite Sirah; in the past 2 years these were the only Rhone grapes available to me. This plan went through a few minor revisions, but didn't change all that much.

Then this summer's weird season hit, and completely changed my plans. Still making a Rhone blend, but it's Grenache based, and making a second batch, a non-standard blend of Italian grapes. I'm ok with completely revamping plans at the last minute -- it's a win for me regardless of what I make.


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## distancerunner (Sep 21, 2021)

I leaned that early communication with suppliers is key. Listen to their harvest report.watch the weather in California and read harvest reports on line. And get the order in early. 

Most importantly, have a plan. And a back up plan. Maybe a third plan, just in case.


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## Denden5136 (Sep 21, 2021)

CDrew said:


> @Denden5136 -I have to ask if you got this Mourvedre from Michael at calwinebroker.com? He's the home wine broker guy in Brentwood which is why I ask.
> 
> I'm asking because I got Mourvedre through him in 2019 and it was a struggle all the way through. I thought I had done everything right but it was terrible when done and I poured out 10 gallons and bottled 10 gallons fermented with a different yeast that was not great but acceptable. Anyway, I think there is a problem with those grapes. The color was wrong, the fermentation didn't smell right, some un-identifiable factor is at work. I'd be curious to hear your story.
> 
> Not to bash calwinebroker but those Mourvedre grapes are not something I'll use again. I did make a Petite Sirah that I got through him that is very good.


Hi CDrew,

Yes I did. I have had very good luck with calwinebroker over the past couple years, but this was really disappointing. There were guys out there picking 500 lbs. I'm sure they're struggling with the same issue. The must has gone from green (really!) to brown to now a shade of pink. I do not have a valve in my fermentation vat to do a proper delastage, so am thinking of pulling off the cap, removing seeds and putting the cap back. My biggest concern is the green seeds. What you describe is what I am dealing with now! I am looking at it as an experiment at this point, but don't have high hopes.


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## CDrew (Sep 21, 2021)

Denden5136 said:


> Hi CDrew,
> 
> Yes I did. I have had very good luck with calwinebroker over the past couple years, but this was really disappointing. There were guys out there picking 500 lbs. I'm sure they're struggling with the same issue. The must has gone from green (really!) to brown to now a shade of pink. I do not have a valve in my fermentation vat to do a proper delastage, so am thinking of pulling off the cap, removing seeds and putting the cap back. My biggest concern is the green seeds. What you describe is what I am dealing with now! I am looking at it as an experiment at this point, but don't have high hopes.



Interesting. These grapes were never right for me. From the very start the color was way off, almost a brown tinge. The smell was off, and even my wife said "what's wrong" when she did a punch down for me. It's the only wine I've ever poured out right after fermentation. I have a 2018 thread that describes this. Interesting you used the same source. Thanks for the reply.


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## NorCal (Sep 22, 2021)

NorCal said:


> My plan, all from grapes.
> 
> 15-20 gallons Chardonnay
> 10 gallons of Rose, saignee from the reds
> ...



Always fun to look back at your plans and see what you actually did.

*PLAN*
15-20 gallons Chardonnay--------------------------NOPE 
10 gallons of Rose, saignee from the reds---------NOPE 
60 gallons of Mourvedre blend (GSM-ish) barrel--KIND OF
---
90 gallons

*ACTUAL*
10 gallons of estate blend (Syrah, Cab Sauv, Zin)
20 gallons of Cab Franc 
45 gallons (estimate) of Mourvedre
60 gallons (estimate) of Petite Syrah
---
125 gallons

What changed? I decided I could skip a year of whites to deplete my inventory from the prior two years. I wasn't able to get the Mourvedre saignee juice during crush, thus no Rose. I wasn't able to locate Grenache, which kind of killed the GSM. We purchased a property with grape vines (small yield). I was given the Cab Franc for free, Mourvedre came in light and I had the opportunity to pick up some nice Petite Sirah this year, which I have only made for blending purposes in the past, so wanted to give it a try.

*How about your plans vs. actual?*


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## mainshipfred (Sep 22, 2021)

NorCal said:


> Always fun to look back at your plans and see what you actually did.
> 
> *PLAN*
> 15-20 gallons Chardonnay--------------------------NOPE
> ...



Oh! brother could I go on!  Since you just got a nice new vineyard I'll give you a break but have to say I've learned to take your initial plans with a grain of salt. I think I remember wagering against you and won, thanks for that.

Even thought I was a little wishy washy on a few varietals I think I'm still pretty much on track. Did make a peach I wasn't expecting and the Tannat is up in the air right now. It appears the cicada's ate a lot of the leaves and they're not sure about the quality. I'm looking for another source because it my latest favorite varietal. Around here Tannat is gold and no one want to give it up. One of the wineries is trying something new. They are waiting to harvest the Viognier just before it starts to rot. Might have to water it back but thought I'd try something new. They are keeping a close eye on them. The Petit Manseng is a little iffy also for some reason. Other than that Norton, PV, Touriga, Tempranallo and Malbec are still on track.


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## CDrew (Sep 22, 2021)

1-An August harvest of Sauvignon Blanc. I'll be in Alaska Aug 31-Sept 11 so the wife might have to tend it. Which is fair because she'll drink 95% of it.

*So no, this did not happen. I was away during harvest. Caught some nice fish tho.*

2-Primitivo-500 pounds or so. 300 for a normal dry wine and 200 for a Rose-5th year so I'll have a vertical to try

*I’ll take 1/2 credit here. Primitivo yield was light, I got 300 pounds. It’s fermenting now all as a red wine. Had to water back to get the brix from 27 to 25.*

3-Syrah- 300-400 pounds 4th year

*So this happened due to the kindness of others. I flew into Sac at midnight and the car would not start. Uber home, drive back out, get car started, home at 4am. Too tired to go pick at 6am. Buddy and his wife offered to pick mine which they did. It’s finishing up now and looks perfect. 25 gallons post press.*

4- Something new. Last year I got surprise Barbera at the end. I'd do that again. 

*Not yet. Amending plans. Would like a pick of foothill grapes for Rose. Time is pretty tight though. But the Rose has been such a hit, I feel that needs to happen again.*

5- 4 pails of Reisling (or Sauvignon blanc) from Wine grapes direct for a later fall fermentation-complete with road trip to go get it

*I will make this happen for sure. sauvignon Blanc was great last year.*

6-A small late cider. Maybe 5 gallons. One of my friends did a cider from local apples this year that was quite good.

*Too early to tell. Apple harvest in a few weeks.*


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## winemaker81 (Sep 22, 2021)

NorCal said:


> How about your plans vs. actual?


never the twain shall meet!


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## Gilmango (Sep 24, 2021)

Denden5136 said:


> Hi CDrew,
> 
> Yes I did. I have had very good luck with calwinebroker over the past couple years, but this was really disappointing. There were guys out there picking 500 lbs. I'm sure they're struggling with the same issue. The must has gone from green (really!) to brown to now a shade of pink. I do not have a valve in my fermentation vat to do a proper delastage, so am thinking of pulling off the cap, removing seeds and putting the cap back. My biggest concern is the green seeds. What you describe is what I am dealing with now! I am looking at it as an experiment at this point, but don't have high hopes.


Sounds like we were at the same pick last Saturday (9/18) in Brentwood with calwinebroker. It was my very first time picking wine grapes, and I also went for the Mourvedre. As a first timer I did not know anything was off / is off in terms of juice color, seed color, etc. Going to get it into secondary tomorrow and hope for the best. If you have any advice as far as what you have done or are doing (in terms of any acid or sugar or water additions, etc.) I'd welcome it. Sounds like I did not get too lucky in terms of picking the right grape varietal and vineyard for my first pick, but still want to do the best I can with my limited experience and equipment. (Been making wine kits this past year, and brewing beer for decades). Thanks - Gilman


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## sour_grapes (Sep 24, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Dang! I just got bad news, and seeking input from the collective.
> 
> Our vintner's association had a group buy organized for Wash. State Merlot grapes. We just got word that the broker (Kendall) cannot fill our order due to a poor harvest.  I am very disappointed.
> 
> ...



So, I opted to ask for an Amarone and a Nebbiolo bucket.

BUT THEN, we got notification that the broker was, after all, able to supply our Washington Merlot grapes. And our group managed to gracefully withdraw our orders from the neighboring club, with no hard feelings.

So, bottom line, I am back to Merlot grapes.


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## Denden5136 (Sep 24, 2021)

Gilmango said:


> Sounds like we were at the same pick last Saturday (9/18) in Brentwood with calwinebroker. It was my very first time picking wine grapes, and I also went for the Mourvedre. As a first timer I did not know anything was off / is off in terms of juice color, seed color, etc. Going to get it into secondary tomorrow and hope for the best. If you have any advice as far as what you have done or are doing (in terms of any acid or sugar or water additions, etc.) I'd welcome it. Sounds like I did not get too lucky in terms of picking the right grape varietal and vineyard for my first pick, but still want to do the best I can with my limited experience and equipment. (Been making wine kits this past year, and brewing beer for decades). Thanks - Gilman


HI there Gilmango,
How does the must look? did you get good color from the skins? 
I was concerned with all the green seeds and skins so I pressed early (and soft) and am hoping to make a lighter wine. My initial readings are actually not in a bad range - 7.1 TA and 3.8 pH. I'd prefer a lower pH, but it is acceptable. Depending on how it turns out, I might blend with the Syrah I picked in Lodi a week before the Mourvedre.
Let me know how yours progresses. What was the initial brix? Maybe we can compare our finished products in a year.


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## Gilmango (Sep 24, 2021)

Denden5136 said:


> HI there Gilmango,
> How does the must look? did you get good color from the skins?
> I was concerned with all the green seeds and skins so I pressed early (and soft) and am hoping to make a lighter wine. My initial readings are actually not in a bad range - 7.1 TA and 3.8 pH. I'd prefer a lower pH, but it is acceptable. Depending on how it turns out, I might blend with the Syrah I picked in Lodi a week before the Mourvedre.
> Let me know how yours progresses. What was the initial brix? Maybe we can compare our finished products in a year.


Hey thanks for the quick reply and the info you shared. My brix seemed lower than I anticipated at 22 but I had a really hard time drawing a sample in my wine thief as it got consistently jammed up with pomace. So when I finally got my hydrometer floating I took the reading but maybe if I'd completely filled my test jar it might have registered slightly higher? What did you get? 

Thanks for the TA and pH readings, I had no way to measure TA, and only had pH strips which seemed to read closer to 3.4-3.5. So far I did not add any water, acid, sugar, oak or tannin, just SO2, Go Ferm, BM4x4 and also RC-212 (2:1 ratio mixed yeast), and Fermaid K. Will add CH16 and Acti ML in secondary.

The juice in the must has definitely gotten redder (and many of the skins have gotten paler), it was not very red at first. Will gently press tomorrow if I cannot find time today. Feeling more hopeful that this will turn out at least OK. I learned that CDrew wound up dumping the Mourvedre he got from this same broker and very likely same farm a couple years ago, which got me really worried.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Sep 27, 2021)

I’ve already got most of my grapes for this year but have 20 gallons of Sangiovese aging,
15 gallons of a field blend of Cabernet franc, Merlot,Malbec and a host of other varietals in really small quantities.
I will also be doing 500 pounds of Syrah and 500-1000 pounds of Zinfandel which should come in sometime between the first of October and October 21st.

This will be a heavy year for me wine wise pushing the limits about 100-120 gallon range depending on what I get Zinfandel wise. This years going to be hectic between working full time at a winery and doing all this.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 30, 2021)

I was getting ready to pick up my west coast grapes tomorrow getting 15 lugs. Then I received an email from my local vineyard saying the PV and Viognier are ready. So it's going to be a 1/2 ton crush tomorrow. My son is working Friday and Saturday so it's going to be a solo effort. But the real kick in the butt is no Tannat from this vineyard this year. Evidently the cicadas ate or killed the leaves and they have only a very small yield. Frantically looking for another source.


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## franc1969 (Sep 30, 2021)

I went all whites , but looks like all juice this year no matter what I tried. Washington Winemakers order ended up with no white grapes, only buckets. Next year.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 5, 2021)

Pitched the yeast yesterday and the wines are happily fermenting. All the 10 gallon brutes have around 8 gallons of must. 
3 brutes - Malbec
3 brutes - Sangiovese/Alicante/Nebbiolo field blend
3 brutes - Touriga/Tempranillo field blend
4 brutes - Local PV
3 buckets - Chardonnay 12 gallons total
2 carboys - Local Viognier 12.5 gallons total This came in a 28 brix so I'll water it back prior to bottling and bench trials.
The end of October the Norton will be in I'll do about 300 lbs.
25 gallons of peach aging and not shown.


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## franc1969 (Oct 5, 2021)

And there we go- four days later I'm done and haven't even bottled last year yet. Anyway- my buckets are almost down to zero, 1.002 to 1.005 SG, and going to carboys tonight. They were fermenting very fast already when I opened the bucket, and they were still cold. I don't know if my added yeasts even had an effect. The only thing not already there is my Gewurztraminer, which was at 1.100+ SG when I opened. Still fizzing, but slow. Hopefully the Assmanhausen starter is what is taking over. 
I haven't figured out what else I might do, no communication on skins for my cider so I may be done for the year.
(Edited for correct numbers)



franc1969 said:


> I went all whites , but looks like all juice this year no matter what I tried. Washington Winemakers order ended up with no white grapes, only buckets. Next year.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 5, 2021)

franc1969 said:


> And there we go- four days later I'm done and haven't even bottled last year yet. Anyway- my buckets are almost down to zero, 1.02 to 1.05 SG, and going to carboys tonight. They were fermenting very fast already when I opened the bucket, and they were still cold. I don't know if my added yeasts even had an effect. The only thing not already there is my Gewurztraminer, which was at 1.10+ SG when I opened. Still fizzing, but slow. Hopefully the Assmanhausen starter is what is taking over.
> I haven't figured out what else I might do, no communication on skins for my cider so I may be done for the year.



You meant 1.002, 1.005, and 1.010, respectively, right?


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## franc1969 (Oct 5, 2021)

Sorry, corrected. Most numbers were just above 1.000SG, now just below it. No idea really on what I have for alcohol percentage, as everything was down to 1.060 or 1.070 already with a roiling fermentation going. Gewurztraminer had high sugar/will have high alcohol, as it read 1.100 when already fizzing. I may adjust this later in spring when I taste test it.


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## crushday (Oct 5, 2021)

Does anyone have a source for Petit Verdot? I know I'm late but I found out a few days ago that the frozen drum I ordered will not be delivered. The vineyard could not fill the order to wine grapes direct. So, searching... Need some blending options and substitutes.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Oct 6, 2021)

crushday said:


> Does anyone have a source for Petit Verdot? I know I'm late but I found out a few days ago that the frozen drum I ordered will not be delivered. The vineyard could not fill the order to wine grapes direct. So, searching... Need some blending options and substitutes.


That’s going to be tough because most places have picked already. The winery I work at is getting our Petit Verdot in about 30 minutes.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 6, 2021)

I had already ruled out Tannat for this year then I received a call from one of my local wineries. Tomorrow I'll be picking up 180 lbs of crushed/destemmed must. I wish they had more to offer but Tannat is like gold around here.


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## SLM (Oct 7, 2021)

Have you tried Lonesome Spring Ranch?
Colin Morrell <[email protected]>


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## sour_grapes (Oct 9, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> So, I opted to ask for an Amarone and a Nebbiolo bucket.
> 
> BUT THEN, we got notification that the broker was, after all, able to supply our Washington Merlot grapes. And our group managed to gracefully withdraw our orders from the neighboring club, with no hard feelings.
> 
> So, bottom line, I am back to Merlot grapes.




We had fits and starts and disappointments and renewed hopes in the interim. But they came through. We got 2 tons of Washington Merlot from the broker (Kendall Farms). Today was crush day! We do not know the exact provenance of the grapes. However, the fruit looked really nice. Many club members thought it was the nicest looking fruit in memory. A nice, long, hard day of crushing.

Even better: I had signed up for 200 lbs. I became a little disappointed that I didn't order more. Then it became clear that they sent us much more fruit than we collectively requested. About 400 lbs or more extra. Fortuitiously, I brought a few extra buckets with me, so I signed up for an additional 100 lbs.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 10, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> We had fits and starts and disappointments and renewed hopes in the interim. But they came through. We got 2 tons of Washington Merlot from the broker (Kendall Farms). Today was crush day! We do not know the exact provenance of the grapes. However, the fruit looked really nice. Many club members thought it was the nicest looking fruit in memory. A nice, long, hard day of crushing.
> 
> Even better: I had signed up for 200 lbs. I became a little disappointed that I didn't order more. Then it became clear that they sent us much more fruit than we collectively requested. About 400 lbs or more extra. Fortuitiously, I brought a few extra buckets with me, so I signed up for an additional 100 lbs.
> 
> ...



Everyone makes different quantities to suit there needs, for me 250 -300 lbs is perfect.

Question though, what is the purpose of the pipe in the center of the bins. I've helped wineries with half bins and never saw that.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 10, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Everyone makes different quantities to suit there needs, for me 250 -300 lbs is perfect.
> 
> Question though, what is the purpose of the pipe in the center of the bins. I've helped wineries with half bins and never saw that.



I confess that I do not know. They came that way from the broker. The pipes had holes in the sides, so presumably it is for ventilation of some sort, but I do not know the exact reasons.

I thought about grabbing one for a gajilion-hole pipe, but decided not to bother.


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## franc1969 (Oct 10, 2021)

Probably just lid supports for the cardboard gaylord. Lovely looking grapes.


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## Bahamawine1 (Oct 10, 2021)

I want to make (70) 5 gallon Carboys (40 flavors) in 3 months I’m well on my way.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Oct 10, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> We had fits and starts and disappointments and renewed hopes in the interim. But they came through. We got 2 tons of Washington Merlot from the broker (Kendall Farms). Today was crush day! We do not know the exact provenance of the grapes. However, the fruit looked really nice. Many club members thought it was the nicest looking fruit in memory. A nice, long, hard day of crushing.
> 
> Even better: I had signed up for 200 lbs. I became a little disappointed that I didn't order more. Then it became clear that they sent us much more fruit than we collectively requested. About 400 lbs or more extra. Fortuitiously, I brought a few extra buckets with me, so I signed up for an additional 100 lbs.
> 
> ...


That is good looking fruit while I work at a commercial winery I also make wine at home, I made Syrah and Sangiovese and a Cab Blend this year as well as a couple white wines, the Syrah I got this year is the best looking grapes I have ever seen even better than our Syrah at work. This year having lower yields was a good thing because quality of fruit is up.


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## mainshipfred (Nov 4, 2021)

Tomorrow I'll be picking up the Norton my last of the year. Turns out I made everything I planned except for the Petit Manseng but I did pick up peach and Chardonnay. Once the Norton is done I'll put everything through MLF then blend and bottle the 2020s sometime in February to make barrel room for the 2021s.


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## mainshipfred (Nov 6, 2021)

Just finished crushing the Norton and adding the enzymes. 260+ lbs yielded about 32 gallons of must. Really high pH of 3.97 and SG of 1.096. I'll take the pH to 3.7 or so and probably chaptalize it to 1.100. But that's tomorrow along with tannins and yeast.


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## stickman (Nov 6, 2021)

@mainshipfred I haven't made any Norton, but thought this article was interesting about some of the particular issues with this grape and associated winemaking.


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## mainshipfred (Nov 7, 2021)

stickman said:


> @mainshipfred I haven't made any Norton, but thought this article was interesting about some of the particular issues with this grape and associated winemaking.



Thank you, I remembered there something different about Norton. I did a brief search and couldn't find anything so this was very timely.


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## NorCal (Jan 16, 2022)

NorCal said:


> Always fun to look back at your plans and see what you actually did.
> 
> *ACTUAL*
> 10 gallons of estate blend (Syrah, Cab Sauv, Zin)
> ...



Update to the Update. Even in the last 4 months, things took a turn. I’ll be ordering labels soon (waiting for the January 40% off sale at Grogtag) so once I commit to labels, the plan is locked in. 

Wine out - gave the 30 gallons of pressed Petite Sirah and 10 gallons of Mourvedre to a buddy.

GSM - A local winery, whom I helped with their vineyard last year, offered me some 2021 finished Grenache. I said sure! I’ll take 15 gallons of Grenache, my 20 gallons of Mourvedre and 10 gallons of estate blend (mostly Syrah) to make 18 cases GSM.

PS barrel - The barrel is 40 gallons Petite Sirah and 20 gallons Mourvedre. I will probably add in the 5 gallons of pressed PS and look for a few gallons of Petit Verdot to add, before bottling.

CF - I was forced to press the free Cab Franc early and it never finished. Last time I checked it was stuck at 1.5 brix (think white zin). If it doesn’t finish, I’ll probably toss it in the 1,000 pound CF ferment I will be doing in 2022.


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