# Basket press advice...



## Bliorg (Oct 14, 2020)

Hi all -

I want a basket press. And I want a project. Seems like a good opportunity to combine the two. I've been trolling FB Marketplace for older presses, which come up with surprising regularity. I found this, fairly local:



It's a Modern Machine & Tool press (also being sold with a Buddy & Westermann iron floor corker, FWIW). The seller tells me the basket is about 16" diameter, so about a #40. On the one hand, it seems a good size. Can go with larger batches in one pressing, it doesn't seem too too large (to me, someone who has never used a basket press). Project-wise, it appears in decent nick. Wood would need replacing, base and rings would probably be bead blasted and powder coated, or at least primed and painted. From what I can tell from this photo, the head seems to be complete. Am I missing anything obvious?

So, for those of you with experience in these things, does this seem like (1) a decent press for restoration, and (2) a decent size for an ambitious home wine maker? I'm thinking this would be a winter project, ready in time for the Chilean harvest.

Thanks for any sage wisdom you may want to share.
Scott


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 14, 2020)

I assume there are spacer blocks, I have cut a top round out of acrylic since it will not pick up water/ juice, I also cut a bottom round out of a polyethylene cutting board and peppered it with 1/2“ drainage holes.
looks good, replacing wood is probably more cosmetic than necessary.


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## Johnd (Oct 14, 2020)

Looks like a really cool old press, good size, and perfect for restoring. You should have no trouble getting it ready with just a little effort. Other than replacing / rebuilding the press basket and new wood spacers, the rest will just require a little work to clean / brighten or repaint as you see fit. Looks like a fun project, I say go for it!!


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## Bliorg (Oct 15, 2020)

Thanks guys! Offer is on the table - wish me luck...


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## Bliorg (Oct 15, 2020)

And... it appears I'm the new owner of an old press! And corker, let's don't forget the corker...


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## VinesnBines (Oct 15, 2020)

What kind of corker? Italian or Portuguese?


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## Bliorg (Oct 15, 2020)

VinesnBines said:


> What kind of corker? Italian or Portuguese?


Hmm, not sure.


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## Rice_Guy (Oct 16, 2020)

crown corker AKA beer bottle capper?


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## Johnd (Oct 16, 2020)

Rice_Guy said:


> crown corker AKA beer bottle capper?



Looks like a wine bottle corker, I think I see a cork sized metal rod directly above the hole where the bottle opening goes.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 16, 2020)

Heck, at the right price, I wouldn't care what it was, it is just neat looking. I think it is a wine bottle corker as well, but can't be for certain.


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## stickman (Oct 16, 2020)

I don't see any plastic......heavy duty, that's when things were made to last more than a lifetime.


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## stickman (Oct 16, 2020)

I couldn't help myself, I was looking at this thing for a while, and I see how it works now. You put the cork into the wider section of the chamber, when operated, as the ram comes down there is a wedge in the back that moves down at the same time. The wedge moves into the slot behind the cork that drives a horizontal ram that shoves the cork into the narrow section of the chamber, compressing the cork just before insertion.


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## Bliorg (Oct 16, 2020)

Well, I have to say that my intent, happy with my Portuguese floor corker, was to clean up the iron one and sell it off. But you guys have me kind of curious as to how well this thing functions. I'm going to have to try it out and see which corker stays in the garage.

Picking all this up tomorrow. Bringing along my not-quite-21-yr-old to help me heft it into the truck. The seller said the press and corker are "very heavy".


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## Rocky (Oct 17, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> Well, I have to say that my intent, happy with my Portuguese floor corker, was to clean up the iron one and sell it off. But you guys have me kind of curious as to how well this thing functions. I'm going to have to try it out and see which corker stays in the garage.
> 
> Picking all this up tomorrow. Bringing along my not-quite-21-yr-old to help me heft it into the truck. The seller said the press and corker are "very heavy".



Bliorg, if you would be so kind, could you take and post some pictures of the corker once you get it home. It has certainly aroused a level of interest here on the forum and I would like to see how it works. I can't tell from the picture what the second piece of equipment to the left is. (Also, it looks like there was a crescent wrench lying on the floor for a while and left its "shadow.")

Thanks.


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## Bliorg (Oct 17, 2020)

Rocky said:


> Bliorg, if you would be so kind, could you take and post some pictures of the corker once you get it home. It has certainly aroused a level of interest here on the forum and I would like to see how it works. I can't tell from the picture what the second piece of equipment to the left is. (Also, it looks like there was a crescent wrench lying on the floor for a while and left its "shadow.")
> 
> Thanks.


Sure thing.

Just got home, press and corker in tow. Will be posting pictures once I get everything unloaded and reassembled, but the press (basket wood aside) is in remarkably good shape. Aside from a handle/bar, it seems complete (fingers still crossed on that one). Not even sure it needs repainting. It seems really nice.

The corker is incredible. A video will make everything make sense, but @stickman has it right. It's a beautiful piece of engineering and turn-of-the-century design. And looks like it will work perfectly well. Just need to decide what I want to do with it...


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## Ajmassa (Oct 17, 2020)

stickman said:


> I couldn't help myself, I was looking at this thing for a while, and I see how it works now. You put the cork into the wider section of the chamber, when operated, as the ram comes down there is a wedge in the back that moves down at the same time. The wedge moves into the slot behind the cork that drives a horizontal ram that shoves the cork into the narrow section of the chamber, compressing the cork just before insertion.


Ah ok. So the 2 levers make more sense to me now. it’s a two part process. One crank to condense the cork. And another crank to drive it into the bottle. Very cool. The fact that it’s in such good working condition is even cooler. 

great find @Bliorg. Can’t wait to see the restoration process. Should be fun.


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## Bliorg (Oct 17, 2020)

Okay, first the press:






The typical half-round wooden blocks are replaced with cast iron:



The corker is a Buddy & Westermann:



It works thusly: 
Corker Video

The press works very well and without any obvious problems. It's _entirely_ cast iron. Assembled, it's a tank. Will likely have to cut and replace all the bolts on the basket, but a good opportunity to upgrade to stainless (McMaster-Carr, here I come!). No rust on this, like anywhere. Not even sure if it's going to need anything more than a good cleaning, though it may get some enamel. Thoughts?

The corker, as well, is cast iron. With wooden legs. Not sure on that. But it's complete, and seems to work exactly as it should. Not sure on if I'm going to keep this though, as cool as it is. 

I need to see if the mill I used to go to is still around, and what 5/4 white oak is going for these days.


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## Rocky (Oct 17, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> Just got home, press and corker in tow. Will be posting pictures once I get everything unloaded and reassembled, but the press (basket wood aside) is in remarkably good shape. Aside from a handle/bar, it seems complete (fingers still crossed on that one). Not even sure it needs repainting. It seems really nice.
> 
> The corker is incredible. A video will make everything make sense, but @stickman has it right. It's a beautiful piece of engineering and turn-of-the-century design. And looks like it will work perfectly well. Just need to decide what I want to do with it...


Just some thoughts on the press. I have one which is of similar construction. One difference I think I see is how the two basket halves are secured. Mine has a rod and hinge-like mechanism on two sides to secure the two halves. If you are missing the bar, you will need to get a length of iron bar, about 3 feet long (mine is about 1" diameter). Personally, I would just give the press a very good cleaning with a wire brush and hot water. Let it dry in direct sunlight and then spray it liberally with K-meta sanitizing solution. As far as painting it is concerned, I would recommend against it. There is more danger in getting new paint flecks in the wine. Powder coating is another matter. If you bead blast the painted surfaces and have them powder coated, replace the wood with American white oak and add new mounting hardware, you would essentially have a new press. Do not paint or powder coat the center shaft or any of the compressing mechanism. By the way, my press basket is about 14" in diameter and 15" high so it is somewhat smaller than the one you have. I should also note that my press has not been used for more than 20 years and has been kept in a dry basement. Good luck. I think you made a great find with the press and corker.


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## Rocky (Oct 17, 2020)

Out notes crossed. Where are you located? If you are willing to part with the corker, I would like an opportunity to buy it. Love the counter-weight on the end of the lever away from the grip. I like older equipment because it gives me a connection to my grandfather, father and father-in-law, who were all instrumental in getting me into making wine.


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## stickman (Oct 17, 2020)

Everything looks good. My opinion on the press is that if you are going to use it, the wine wetted iron parts need to be sealed with something to prevent iron contamination. Powder coating would be ideal. In general excess iron in wine should be avoided, increased oxidation and possible iron haze issues are reported.


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## Bliorg (Oct 17, 2020)

Thanks @Rocky. Good point on the paint. I'd originally planned on powder coating, but I'll have to ponder on it now.

I'm near Reading, PA, which is a haul from Columbus.

FWIW, I found this about the Modern Machine & Tool Company. Looks like this press dates to somewhere around 1926.

[EDIT] _And_, Budde & Westermann was marketing corking machines at least as early as ~1900.


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## Bliorg (Oct 17, 2020)

stickman said:


> Everything looks good. My opinion on the press is that if you are going to use it, the wine wetted iron parts need to be sealed with something to prevent iron contamination. Powder coating would be ideal. In general excess iron in wine should be avoided, increased oxidation and possible iron haze issues are reported.


Thanks - good points. I looked into it a few days ago and there are several rim shops semi-local that do blasting and powder coating. I'll have to see if I can get a project quote on the base. I'm thinking the basket straps can be enameled as they aren't in constant contact with the must. Have to decide what to do with the head (paint, scrub and Boeshield, leave raw).


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## Bliorg (Oct 19, 2020)

Just in case anyone is interested, before pictures of the press are available on my flickr. 

Scott


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## balatonwine (Oct 20, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> Wood would need replacing, base and rings would probably be bead blasted and powder coated, or at least primed and painted.



If you paint, be sure to use a proper food safe paint made for wine making equipment, such as available from piwine.com :

Paint and Enamel | Commercial Wine making Equipment and Supplies


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## Bliorg (Oct 20, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> If you paint, be sure to use a proper food safe paint made for wine making equipment, such as available from piwine.com :
> 
> Paint and Enamel | Commercial Wine making Equipment and Supplies


Thanks @balatonwine. I have some thoughts about this, but would like to solicit opinions. I haven't decided on finishing for the base and basket rings yet. I just submitted a quote request to a local blaster/powder coat shop. We'll see. I want this to be a great project, but I still have to consider budget. With respect to the base and base of the screw, either powder coat, or blast and paint. Ideally everything will be PC; however, if the latter, it'd be some food safe (technically safe for indirect contact) paint, such as what Presque Isle sells. The rings, though, shouldn't actually see anything more than slight, incidental contact with the wine, if at all. As such, I'm pondering Rustoleum/Krylon type paint after blasting, which dries to a non-toxic finish, though not necessarily FDA food safe. Perfect world notwithstanding, I'm thinking non-toxic is probably appropriate.

Thoughts?


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## buzi (Oct 20, 2020)

The basket press is nice. The corner is a work of art! Nice grab on them both! They are both functional and ornamental. I love the old mechanical stuff especially when I can use it!


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## balatonwine (Oct 23, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> I'm pondering Rustoleum/Krylon type paint



I looked into this quite a lot. And paint like Rustoleum I would not use anywhere on a wine press. Even when dry, they can leach chemicals, especially from acidic fluids like grape juice, which I do not want in my wine. Maybe in tiny amounts, and maybe so tiny it is not an issue (since FDA rules are for mass production surfaces with a lot of contact), I still *personally* would not use this type of paint since there are somewhat better alternatives avaialble.

But that is just me and my *gut* feeling on the issue. 

Hope this helps.


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## Bliorg (Oct 24, 2020)

Thanks @balatonwine. After reading your post, I did a bunch of research on this. Then went a different direction. Lemme 'splain:

All spray paints that I can find, Krylon/Rustoleum included, may contain toxic compounds when aerosolized, but dry to be non-toxic. Now, while non-toxic is fine, it does not meet a food safe standard as set by FDA. Food safe coatings can then be further delineated into different acceptable food contact - direct, indirect, and incidental. Trouble is, I can't find any clear guidance from FDA on how those are actually defined. Steel-It, which is widely used in wineries for processing equipment, is only suitable for incidental contact, which (anecdotally) I find to mean possible but improbable, not expected or prolonged contact. The paint sold by Presque Isle is labeled for indirect contact; again anecdotally, contact but not prolonged (the reference I keep finding is that the outside of food packaging is considered indirect contact). I have yet to find a reasonable paint option for _direct_ food contact. And I think the kicker on all of this, and why I can't find any real guidance, is that it would require someone to define _residence time_ as it relates to processing. For example, if the free run juice in pressing is out of the press in 30 seconds, is that acceptable, versus the must/grape contact with the painted parts of the press for, say, 30 minutes? It's a risk question, and depends largely on the hazards presented by what _might_ be making contact with the food.

I had about decided on just going with the Presque Isle stuff and squashing the chemist and ChE in me, when I started pondering surface preparation of the cast iron to ready for whatever paint I ultimately went with (all this still pending the powder coating quote I've yet to receive). Joined a metalworking forum as metallurgy is not my strength. Described the current condition and age of the iron, and that it is completely rust free. One of the replies I got, that was borne out by some further research, is the tannic acid and iron react to form an insoluble, inert complex, iron tannate. Which is also the basis of several "rust killers" on the market. Which is also why iron nails stain oak lumber (which, drat, I knew in a previous life). Tannins react with a couple oxidative states of iron to product this compound, which create a blue/black coating on the metal, which stops any corrosion. And, from what I've been able to find, effectively passivates the iron. The comment I got on the metalworking forum also suggested that, to remove that layer would require substantial material removal from the press.

So, my plan now is to wash the iron thoroughly, maybe coat the head with Boeshield just to help lubricate and protect it, clean the threaded section of the screw and lubricate lightly with some kind of food safe lubricant (McMaster Carr is good for that), and rebuild the basket with quartered white oak. I may get fancy and fume the oak and finish with pure tung oil, which dries to a hard, food safe finish. But the plan now is to leave the iron in its current state, and I'm pretty confident that the tannate, and what I expect will be reasonable residence times through the press, will keep me on the good side of any iron leaching.

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.
Scott


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## stickman (Oct 24, 2020)

I'm sure that most of the typical basket presses that are painted and sold today, are considered only for incidental food contact.

My press is also cast iron and had a similar appearance, though not as uniform black as yours. I had used the press a few times before being painted. I would usually wipe it down with a wet rag and hose it off before use. Even after rinsing, by the time I was ready to press I would find residual yellow water collecting in the pan and bucket, which always bothered me, so that's why I painted mine. Maybe you can passivate it further if needed based on your own testing and preference.








Pickering Winery Supply | Coatings - 5402


Pickering Winery Supply



winerystuff.com









Pickering Winery Supply | Coatings | 5413


Pickering Winery Supply



winerystuff.com


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## Bliorg (Oct 24, 2020)

stickman said:


> I'm sure that most of the typical basket presses that are painted and sold today, are considered only for incidental food contact.
> 
> My press is also cast iron and had a similar appearance, though not as uniform black as yours. I had used the press a few times before being painted. I would usually wipe it down with a wet rag and hose it off before use. Even after rinsing, by the time I was ready to press I would find residual yellow water collecting in the pan and bucket, which always bothered me, so that's why I painted mine. Maybe you can passivate it further if needed based on you own testing and preference.
> 
> ...


Understood. Thanks for your experience. Before I make a decision (and before the winter sets in) I'll hose down the base and let the pan sit full for a while and see what the residue looks like. Very important step. Thank you for bringing this up.

And thanks for the links to the epoxies. When you decided to paint, what surface prep did you do to the cast iron?


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## stickman (Oct 25, 2020)

I didn't prepare the surface nearly as good as it should be, wire brush and some light sanding, it was not down to bare metal, I was focused on making it usable. I really never finished the job, the legs and ratchet weren't touched, did only what I thought was needed at the time.


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## balatonwine (Oct 25, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> incidental contact, which (anecdotally) I find to mean possible but improbable, not expected or prolonged contact.



Incidental is approved for not prolonged food contact. Which is fine for a press, where contact is very brief, but not for long term contact such as, for example, the inside of a can where food can remain for years. That is basically the difference. Yes, the FDA rules (and EU rules which I deal with) are difficult to understand, but any paint that is approved for industry wine making for the same or similar industry purposes you will use, is then the "_best"_ option for you as well. For example, Steel-it says they have no heavy metal pigments (and is another paint I would recommend if available), but other paints may, so maybe better to go with a paint that will not leech heavy metals into your wine over one that "might". But your use and needs millage may differ and an "okay" solution may also be fine. But I can not recommend any "okay" only option, since I don't want to be blamed if your children start coming out with two heads.... 

Hope this helps.

_Side note: _I wrote earlier I would not paint any part of a press with something like Rust-oleum, but that only includes any part that may come in contact with your grapes, juice, etc. So it would be fine IMHO, to paint the underside of the pan and legs for example with Rust-oleum.


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## Bliorg (Oct 27, 2020)

Quick question (changing directions): I see a lot of older presses contain a lattice-like grid at the bottom of the basket:



(Not my picture)

My press doesn't have this, and I don't think many/most new presses include this either. How necessary is it? I'm kind of missing the point, if it's for anything other than creating channels for the juice to drain. I'd think pressing against a flat, solid surface would be most efficient.


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## Bliorg (Oct 27, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> Incidental is approved for not prolonged food contact. Which is fine for a press, where contact is very brief, but not for long term contact such as, for example, the inside of a can where food can remain for years. That is basically the difference. Yes, the FDA rules (and EU rules which I deal with) are difficult to understand, but any paint that is approved for industry wine making for the same or similar industry purposes you will use, is then the "_best"_ option for you as well. For example, Steel-it says they have no heavy metal pigments (and is another paint I would recommend if available), but other paints may, so maybe better to go with a paint that will not leech heavy metals into your wine over one that "might". But your use and needs millage may differ and an "okay" solution may also be fine. But I can not recommend any "okay" only option, since I don't want to be blamed if your children start coming out with two heads....
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> _Side note: _I wrote earlier I would not paint any part of a press with something like Rust-oleum, but that only includes any part that may come in contact with your grapes, juice, etc. So it would be fine IMHO, to paint the underside of the pan and legs for example with Rust-oleum.



Just for transparency, the reference I've been working of off as far as painting goes is from Food Safety Magazine:

"In addition, the FDA recognizes three types of food contact. Direct Contact substances are those that directly contact food. Substances that might come in contact with food, such as on the outside of food bag or carton, are defined as indirect contact. Finally, incidental contact substances are those that rarely contact food and the contact is not purposeful or continuous. For example, food that contacts an extraneous part of a food processing machine where contact is not expected is considered incidental."

In my work I've dealt with risk analysis and evaluation pretty extensively. Again, I think risk, in this case, is based largely on residence time. I think it'd be *okay *to use a paint that dries to non-toxic, as it would be inert _*enough *_for the exposure and conditions (pH and alcohol) that risk would be pretty low, given the application (for example, the straps around the basket, but *not *the surface of the pan). Again, based on the definitions above, I think the "food safe" paint from Presque Isle is *okay *given the same constraints. And, should I end up painting, is probably what I'll use (or the two part epoxy paint Stickman linked).

All that said, my evaluation of risk/benefit of the current condition (non-corroded, surface preserved by iron tannate, which by all accounts is inert and self-renewing if not entirely robust) is such that I'll test the press with no additional coating and see if anything more is necessary. I _still _haven't heard back from the powder coater, except for additional photos and to confirm if the legs are removable and for weight (the legs, as a side note, seem to be dovetailed into the base pan, but I sure can't slide them out and can't see where they're pinned at all; the base probably weighs upwards of 80 pounds), so if anything, the base would likely be painted with some *acceptable *enamel or epoxy. Step-by-step though.


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## stickman (Oct 27, 2020)

My old press has the lattice, but it doesn't appear to make any difference if used or not. As you suggested, I believe the intent was to add additional channels for drainage.


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## Bliorg (Oct 27, 2020)

stickman said:


> My old press has the lattice, but it doesn't appear to make any difference if used or not. As you suggested, I believe the intent was to add additional channels for drainage.


Awesome - I think I'mma leave it out and see how it performs. Can always add later. 

I'm thinking, to confirm that everything is copacetic, I'm going to run a small (~1 gallon) batch though it and see how it performs. 

Need to pick a day and head over to Talarico Hardwoods and pick up some QSWO!


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## balatonwine (Oct 29, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> the FDA recognizes three types of food contact.



I guess my take home message was, there are rules and regulations, and then there is reality. Plenty of times agencies okay a product that is classed as incidental for use in indirect, for example. The agency might have done their own chemical and risk analysis in each case to provide the approval in each "special" case. Which is why I said, if they use it in industry, which is regulated (we hope) and it has been approved, then IMHO it is the best for home use without more data*. And then you will get nothing more in your home made wine that you might get from a bottle you buy from the store. Using other things, that are not even graded at incidental, and making assumptions about their safety, without actual data like chemical analysis*, always adds to the risks by an unknown amount: from zero on up....

Hope this helps.

* Buy some paint, paint some metal, pour some wine over it a few times, send the contacted wine to a lab, get results, then you know. You have the facts. Questions and discussions done.


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## Bliorg (Oct 29, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> * Buy some paint, paint some metal, pour some wine over it a few times, send the contacted wine to a lab, get results, then you know. You have the facts. Questions and discussions done.


+1 - this is, of course, the best route.

Switching gears again, the basket is slowly coming apart. Partly due to time constraints, partly due to bolts which haven't moved in a l-o-n-g time. Have removed as many of the nuts as possible; the rest just spin the bolts in the wood. Had two thoughts - either cut through the nut with a Dremel cutoff wheel (tried - very slow), or take a chisel to the endgrain of the stave and see if I can't split the wood down to the bolt and free it up. Just tried the latter, which worked a treat. Hopefully make short work of the rest of this now!


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## Bliorg (Oct 29, 2020)

Progress on the basket disassembly...


Basket Disassembly... by Scott, on Flickr


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## photoguy (Oct 29, 2020)

Awesome piece of equipment ! I have similar one just not as old looking. Gave it a good clean and painted the base tray with apoxy if I remember right. Never had any problems in many years. Also have a smaller one I inherited from father law. Took apart good sanding and food grade wood sealer and it's as good as new..Works great! Sure get a lot of satisfaction from doing projects like this.


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## Bliorg (Oct 30, 2020)

Basket is complete disassembled:


Basket disassembly by Scott, on Flickr

What's left:


Basket disassembly by Scott, on Flickr

The two staves under the levers that hold the two halves of the basket were in place with these studs:


Basket disassembly by Scott, on Flickr
They don't move at all. Not sure how they're attached. I'm thinking they'll be cut and drilled out, holes tapped, and new bolts will thread directly in place.


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## stickman (Oct 30, 2020)

Maybe they put those studs in like a rivet.


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## CDrew (Oct 30, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> Thanks @balatonwine.
> 
> I had about decided on just going with the Presque Isle stuff and squashing the chemist and ChE in me, when I started pondering surface preparation of the cast iron to ready for whatever paint I ultimately went with (all this still pending the powder coating quote I've yet to receive). Joined a metalworking forum as metallurgy is not my strength. Described the current condition and age of the iron, and that it is completely rust free. One of the replies I got, that was borne out by some further research, is the tannic acid and iron react to form an insoluble, inert complex, iron tannate. Which is also the basis of several "rust killers" on the market. Which is also why iron nails stain oak lumber (which, drat, I knew in a previous life). Tannins react with a couple oxidative states of iron to product this compound, which create a blue/black coating on the metal, which stops any corrosion. And, from what I've been able to find, effectively passivates the iron. The comment I got on the metalworking forum also suggested that, to remove that layer would require substantial material removal from the press.
> 
> So, my plan now is to wash the iron thoroughly, maybe coat the head with Boeshield just to help lubricate and protect it, clean the threaded section of the screw and lubricate lightly with some kind of food safe lubricant (McMaster Carr is good for that), and rebuild the basket with quartered white oak. I may get fancy and fume the oak and finish with pure tung oil, which dries to a hard, food safe finish. But the plan now is to leave the iron in its current state, and I'm pretty confident that the tannate, and what I expect will be reasonable residence times through the press, will keep me on the good side of any iron leaching.



I like all of this. Great project, interesting chemistry too. I'd love to see you NOT paint or powdercoat the press. Of the two, only powdercoat would be acceptable-LOL.

Other products passivate cast iron too, like phosphoric acid. Given the active ingredient in Star San is phosphoric acid, I think you're good on many levels. And I'll have to look up the Iron Tannate. That sounds great. And that beautiful 100 year patina should be preserved. I love too that the press plates are cast also. In the day, they went to a lot of trouble to build the press the way it is.

So next fall, you'll have a relic of the past to use in the present for it's intended purpose. That is excellent. This press still has all it's parts. THe plates, the bands, and even the ratchet prawls, which really have not changed much in 100 years.

And one other thing. The Tung oil is a good choice for the oak. Real tung oil, like the stuff from Lee Valley. I rehandled a bunch of our kitchen knives and use Tung oil as the finish. Holds up great to food and washing. I'm not sure how it would hold up to wine, but probably pretty well. It would be a good thing to test and then know.

Subscribing to see updates. Nice work.


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## Bliorg (Nov 1, 2020)

CDrew said:


> I like all of this. Great project, interesting chemistry too. I'd love to see you NOT paint or powdercoat the press. Of the two, only powdercoat would be acceptable-LOL.
> 
> Other products passivate cast iron too, like phosphoric acid. Given the active ingredient in Star San is phosphoric acid, I think you're good on many levels. And I'll have to look up the Iron Tannate. That sounds great. And that beautiful 100 year patina should be preserved. I love too that the press plates are cast also. In the day, they went to a lot of trouble to build the press the way it is.
> 
> ...


Thanks, CDrew. For the record, the powder coater replied that he'd like to meet to discuss how to actually coat this. I'm not replying. 

You're right about the StarSan passivation (Ospho?). Hadn't thought about that. There are a few bright spots on the rings that I think I'll dab on some StarSan and see what happens. I _do_ like the idea of keeping the patina developed during use. I agree - this press was designed and engineered to withstand substantial use - it's a beast.

I have a long history with Lee Valley too! _Real_ tung oil (without dryers) will be perfect for this. And fuming the oak is absolutely unnecessary, but let's face it - anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

Have some final work to do on the rings before I do some tapping on them, stay tuned. And thanks for your post.


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## balatonwine (Nov 2, 2020)

CDrew said:


> I'd love to see you NOT paint or powdercoat the press.



That is actually a very interesting idea. To treat the iron like cast iron cookware. Would need appropriate treatment after each use, and a lot of TLC, but is a novel idea.



CDrew said:


> And one other thing. The Tung oil is a good choice for the oak.



Tung oil is food safe. But there is usually no need to treat the staves at all in fact. Not with oils, stains, or other products. I would not treat the staves, especially with oils, as any oil can wash out into the wine, even if food safe and edible. Natural wood is fine 'as is' if the staves are oak or beech. Simply wash them down, clean them and let them air dry and they are good year after year natural and as is. 

Side note: Unless one is trying to do the optimal sympathetic restoration, I would probably myself replace all the staves with new wood. Even if the Ship of Theseus thought experiment may say this is then a new press....


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## Bliorg (Nov 2, 2020)

stickman said:


> Maybe they put those studs in like a rivet.


+1

I think you're right. When I get a minute I'm going to try to cut the back off one and drive the rest from the back through the front. Hopefully that works smoothly. Then I can decide on a tap size and get that taken care of. Need a new punch first though - I don't have any near this size right now...


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## stickman (Nov 2, 2020)

Tapping should work fine, another option is using a screw from the inside with rivet nut on the outside.


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## Bliorg (Nov 2, 2020)

I'd never heard of rivet nuts before. Look like a good option, except for the $30 installation tool. But, on McMaster Carr I found something similar that looks workable: Binding barrels. Quick and easy. I like the idea of tapping, but these may be easier in practice.

I'll probably not decide until the rivets are out and I'm staring at the hole in the ring.


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## CDrew (Nov 2, 2020)

How about a steel bolt, cut off the head and weld it in ? The band is going to be mild steel not cast and welding should be easy.


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## balatonwine (Nov 2, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> +1
> 
> I think you're right.



A rivet fastened stay is something I have never seen... till now if that is the case.

My press simply has bolts from the outside into to wood. Which is okay since all pressure is outward not inward on the stays (and so has a smooth surface on the inside without bolt or rivet heads). But I have seen others with through bolts from the inside with nuts on the outside (looking like a spiked dog collar).

I guess the solution will depend on how much like the original one wants to be. The older the press, the more ideal to keep with the original design for historical purposes (IMO).


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## Bliorg (Nov 2, 2020)

CDrew said:


> How about a steel bolt, cut off the head and weld it in ? The band is going to be mild steel not cast and welding should be easy.


It's a good idea, but I probably won't go that route. I don't know any welders in the area, and it's not a skill I'd consider myself cabale at.


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## Bliorg (Nov 2, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> A rivet fastened stay is something I have never seen... till now if that is the case.
> 
> My press simply has bolts from the outside into to wood. Which is okay since all pressure is outward not inward on the stays (and so has a smooth surface on the inside without bolt or rivet heads). But I have seen others with through bolts from the inside with nuts on the outside (looking like a spiked dog collar).
> 
> I guess the solution will depend on how much like the original one wants to be. The older the press, the more ideal to keep with the original design for historical purposes (IMO).


This used flat head screws mounted from the inside. The head is countersunk so the surface is flat inside. And, except for every 100 year resto, they don't really need to be removed again after installation. The nuts were on the outside of the rings. I'm doing my install the same way, with black oxide stainless for both corrosion resistance and for aesthetics.


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## stickman (Nov 2, 2020)

I just looked at my basket, the point where the rings overlap the flat head screws are inserted from the ring side, the holes for the ring and wood are both countersunk. Basically the the hole through the wood is drilled a second time about half way through with a larger bit to accept the nut. So the screw is shorter than the others and the nut is on the wood side, but is completely countersunk out of the way.


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## Bliorg (Nov 2, 2020)

stickman said:


> I just looked at my basket, the point where the rings overlap the flat head screws are inserted from the ring side, the holes for the ring and wood are both countersunk. Basically the the hole through the wood is drilled a second time about half way through with a larger bit to accept the nut. So the screw is shorter than the others and the nut is on the wood side, but is completely countersunk out of the way.


That's an interesting option, too. I've inlayed nuts before like that; this would definitely be a simple solution. 

Lots to consider - thanks for the ideas, everyone!


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## Bliorg (Nov 3, 2020)

Went out and bought a set of punches today. Got home, cut off the back of a rivet, went after it with one of the punches to force the rest through the front. Nada. Did not budge. Decided to go after it with a drill. Started with something smallish, stepped up in size, trying to punch the waste through each time. Eventually landed at 1/4". Only a sliver of metal left, but still some waste bulging over on the back of the strap. Clamped it solid in a vise and went after it with the punch. With some persuasion, the waste folded over, then punched through. Left with a nice, clean, round hole:



IMG_2882 by Scott, on Flickr

(It's the one on the left)

One down, seven to go.


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## Bliorg (Nov 7, 2020)

Finished drilling and driving out the rivets.


IMG_2899 by Scott, on Flickr

Need to go pick out the QSWO and make some staves. Then can place an order with McMaster for all the hardware.


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## Ajmassa (Nov 8, 2020)

McMaster is a great site. Will definitely be using that in the future. I had never heard of it before. Curious though where you’ll be getting the stave material from?
My press is in bad shape and is crying for a makeover. 

love the thread btw. 


Bliorg said:


> Finished drilling and driving out the rivets.
> 
> 
> IMG_2899 by Scott, on Flickr
> ...


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## Bliorg (Nov 8, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> McMaster is a great site. Will definitely be using that in the future. I had never heard of it before. Curious though where you’ll be getting the stave material from?
> My press is in bad shape and is crying for a makeover.
> 
> love the thread btw.


There was a time when I could have just sent my paycheck to McMaster Carr to save some time...

There are several mills in the area, but I’ll be getting 4/4 quarter sawn white oak at Talarico Hardwoods, partly on quality, partly on how close they are. All told I need about 4-5 board feet of wood but I’ll probably get a bit more than that.


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## Bliorg (Nov 13, 2020)

Quick question: What wood to make the spacer blocks from? I can see something tight-grained like maple, but 12/4 maple is gonna be _pricey_. OTOH, dimensional SPF from 84 Lumber would be much more reasonable, but I'd almost consider it something that would need occasional replacing, as I'd imagine it would absorb a lot of liquid and be difficult to sanitize.

Thoughts?


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## Bliorg (Nov 13, 2020)

And while we're at it...

I was planning on quartered or rift sawn white oak for the staves, as this seems compatible with the process. _However_, I'm planning to finish the staves with pure tung oil, which provides a food safe, hard finish. So oak's properties and utility in winemaking are reduced to strength. With that in mind, I'm wondering if something even tighter-grained, such as hard maple, would provide a stronger, more easily maintained surface.

I've looked and can't find anything relating the traditional wood used, understanding that that wood was likely unfinished. Short of that, I can't find what woods are used in new presses, understanding that _that _wood is likely finished.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience? I'm hoping to hit up the mill tomorrow morning.


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## Johnd (Nov 13, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> And while we're at it...
> 
> I was planning on quartered or rift sawn white oak for the staves, as this seems compatible with the process. _However_, I'm planning to finish the staves with pure tung oil, which provides a food safe, hard finish. So oak's properties and utility in winemaking are reduced to strength. With that in mind, I'm wondering if something even tighter-grained, such as hard maple, would provide a stronger, more easily maintained surface.
> 
> ...


I saw one on a video that was made or colorless resin, poured in a mold, polished clear. Very cool looking, strong, durable, and see-through. Couldn’t find the vid to share, but at least I remembered it......

Edit: I referenced the wrong post, the item I’m talking about was the press plate.


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## stickman (Nov 13, 2020)

I've heard of people using solid oak flooring stock for the basket, but I don't have any direct experience myself. The staves on mine are 7/8" thick, I had assumed it was oak, but really I have no idea. Mine has 3 pairs of press blocks that are 2.5"x2.5"x10", again they appear to be hard wood, definitely not SPF, but it may not matter much as they don't really contact the wine.


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## wood1954 (Nov 14, 2020)

Maple would be best, however white oak with tung oil on it would be easy to clean as well.


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## balatonwine (Nov 14, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> Short of that, I can't find what woods are used in new presses



Presses often use Beech for the staves in the basket. A tight grain wood that will impart no flavors to the wine. And the wood is traditionally unfinished.

For example, Beech is the wood stated in these presses:






Ratchet Wine Press - The Vintner Vault


Ratchet Wine Press, a wine press used by small wineries and home winemakers for pressing their fermented grape skins or whole berry grapes



www.thevintnervault.com


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## Bliorg (Nov 14, 2020)

wood1954 said:


> Maple would be best, however white oak with tung oil on it would be easy to clean as well.



I'm leaning toward maple right now. I really like the idea of fumed QSWO, but my mill is low on QS, and fuming rift sawn doesn't seem worth the trouble. I know - I shouldn't let my vanity play a role in this decision, but for the effort going into the project, I want something that's more than just functional. Maple, though, seems to have a lot of advantages in use.



balatonwine said:


> Presses often use Beech for the staves in the basket. A tight grain wood that will impart no flavors to the wine. And the wood is traditionally unfinished.


You know, I need to put a plane to some of the wood that came off the press. I'll bet it's beech. Certainly wasn't oak. Beech is a great option, but not readily available near me.

I was rummaging through my lumber stash a little bit ago (as I got too late a start to make it to the mill before closing today, Saturday hours...) and have at least some of what was sold to me as "Painted" maple. I think it's soft maple (which should still be plenty strong for this) and has some mineral streaking through it. Not sure I have enough, though, to complete the project (I figure I need about 5-6 BF after milling, probably about 8 with waste). Have to dig around s'more...

[EDIT] Dug around. I have enough maple (that I can find) for (21) 16" staves. I need (22). So I could punt for the last stave (I have some sapwood cherry that is similar enough to fit in), or dig through some more for something completely different. I may have enough o-l-d cherry or walnut to accommodate this project, both are used in food service and would be sealed anyway. I think I'm going to end up pulling apart my lumber stack today. Would make sense to use material already on hand if possible...


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## Bliorg (Nov 14, 2020)

Turns out, plenty of cherry.


OLD cherry... by Scott, on Flickr


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## balatonwine (Nov 15, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> Beech is a great option, but not readily available near me.



Understand. And for such projects, half the fun is rummaging around and using what you already have. 

Side note: Beech is so common where I live, I use it for firewood.... ♨


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## Bliorg (Nov 15, 2020)

balatonwine said:


> Understand. And for such projects, half the fun is rummaging around and using what you already have.
> 
> Side note: Beech is so common where I live, I use it for firewood.... ♨


Where I grew up, maple-beech was the climax forest, and they grew _huge_. Around here there are a lot of ash and walnut, and they're not all that nice. And the ash is all being devastated by the emerald ash borer, they expect them to be entirely gone in a few years.


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## Ajmassa (Nov 15, 2020)

Bliorg said:


> Where I grew up, maple-beech was the climax forest, and they grew _huge_. Around here there are a lot of ash and walnut, and they're not all that nice. And the ash is all being devastated by the emerald ash borer, they expect them to be entirely gone in a few years.


i pulled out my press yesterday to clean it knowing I’ll be using in a few days. I don’t feel comfortable using it anymore though. It’s so old and the staves have wine stains caked into it and has a smell that- it’s not good. But it’s not horrible either. Idk. Hard to describe.

I sanded one down as a test and only with a heavy heavy sanding did i feel comfortable to use again. But doing all that work to salvage staves seems pointless. In your now expert opinion  & w/ just a couple days window, (no online purchases) what do you think my best option would be for new stave material?

current staves are 7/8” thick x 1-5/8” wide

And after some quick online searches red oak does seem to be relatively standard—-Which is surprising considering the cat piss factor I’ve been told about. I suppose any use of red oak is sealed tho. Gonna shoot for white or beech I guess. And hopefully can find hardware. Wild goose chase tomorrow


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## mainshipfred (Nov 15, 2020)

Do you think poplar might be an option? Pretty available and inexpensive.


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## Ajmassa (Nov 15, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> Do you think poplar might be an option? Pretty available and inexpensive.


I have no idea. That’s kinda why I popped into this thread- to see what’s cool/ what’s not cool 

For press staves I guess the harder the better. But I do love me some poplar. I would like to keep the staves at 7/8” thick if I’m able but makes it more difficult to find. I bet they probably sell 5/4” stock tho. If forced to use depot or Lowe’s or something then options would be 5/4 red ok or poplar and plane & rip as needed.
I’m gonna hit up a few different local lumberyards tomorrow to see what’s out there.


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## Bliorg (Nov 15, 2020)

Sorry for the late reply - was watching SpaceX launch.

Okay, here's my completely inexperienced, worth-less-than-you're-paying-for thoughts: Hardwood. Check. Closed grain. Better than open. White oak passes due to the tyloses. Red oak does not have them, which is why it's not used for water-tight applications. Plus the whole cat p!ss thing. If you're completely sealing in the wood, red oak is better than nothing. Poplar, I think, would work, but largely because I don't *think* the lateral pressures seen by the staves, banded by the rings, is enough to break them. I've used poplar in applications that require tremendous strength (Windsor seats with tapered joinery) and never had a failure. For about the same price (at the mill I've used) hard maple is comparable in price.

I see you're near Philly. So am I, but the other way. Have you ever been to Hearne's in Oxford? My concern with sourcing anything from dePot/Lowe's is (1) You're getting 1" nominal, so 3/4", (2) I don't _think_ you can get 5/4 hardwoods, and (3) you'll pay *through the nose*. Hearne's is a playground. Have incredible stuff. Pretty sure they'll surface for you too if you don't have access to a jointer or planer. If you're able to drive up to Kempton, Bailey Wood Products has great prices and will surface for $0.35/BF. Outside Reading is Talarico's. _The_ place for quartered wood.

All that said, if you need any help, I've got a pretty well equipped shop.


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## pete1325 (Feb 19, 2021)

All in all a pretty good find and great little project. If you intend to replace the wood on the basket make sure you use a wood that won't warp to much and strong enough to handle the pressure of the press. These old baskets presses can generate tons of pressure Maple perhaps.


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## Bliorg (Feb 21, 2021)

pete1325 said:


> All in all a pretty good find and great little project. If you intend to replace the wood on the basket make sure you use a wood that won't warp to much and strong enough to handle the pressure of the press. These old baskets presses can generate tons of pressure Maple perhaps.



Thanks. Plan is still to use the well-aged cherry I found in my lumber pile. I need to get back off dead zero on this. Have to many irons in too many fires. I have to check the cherry - it's from several mills, and several old projects, so I think there's some discrepancy in thicknesses. Need to plane it all to the same thickness, then get busy milling to dimension. Once that's done, I can order my hardware from McMaster-Carr (hopefully it's all still in my cart...). Honestly, it's not even a weekend's work, and I really have no excuses. Am planning on a Chilean Syrah (?)-based rose this spring, really need to get the press finished.


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## Bliorg (Mar 2, 2021)

Okay, may be adjusting the plan: Found a guy locally with well-aged 4/4+ black walnut. Which is about my favorite wood. And a good enough price that it's tempting me dearly. Also considering Waterlox as a food safe finish. Hmm...


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 3, 2021)

I am not aware of any food process equipment which touches the food being made out of walnut, ,,,, EVER.


Bliorg said:


> Found a guy locally with well-aged 4/4+ black walnut. . . Also considering Waterlox as a food safe finish. Hmm...


the old standard was to oil wood with peanut oil, any wood will survive well as long as it is dry, constant water promotes mold.
the industry point of view nothing is better than stainless as a stainless U channel or even angle iron with the point side facing in twards the grapes, or better yet 1/4 inch perforated stainless


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## VinesnBines (Mar 3, 2021)

Cutting boards are often made of black walnut. It is rated higher than cherry for cutting boards, in fact. second only to maple. A google search shows numerous such items for sale.

I would think if a cutting board is acceptable, then the staves of a press would be just as good.


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## Bliorg (Mar 5, 2021)

VinesnBines said:


> Cutting boards are often made of black walnut. It is rated higher than cherry for cutting boards, in fact. second only to maple. A google search shows numerous such items for sale.
> 
> I would think if a cutting board is acceptable, then the staves of a press would be just as good.


And, FWIW, bowls and spoons.

An interesting read: Walnut Cutting boards - nut allergy trigger?

I'm not sure ATM what I'm going to use - budget has come into play very heavily in the past week, and I may end up using what I've got on hand rather than buying more wood. My cherry isn't all consistent thickness, but the majority is 7/8" thick, with some 3/4". I'm thinking I could get away with no planing, use the 7/8" on the bulk of the basket, and the thinner 3/4" on the four end staves where I'm going to be using different fasteners anyway. 

Need to get out in the cold cold garage and figure out how much of each I have...


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## balatonwine (Mar 5, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> I am not aware of any food process equipment which touches the food being made out of walnut, ,,,, EVER.








__





Walnut Cutting Boards - CuttingBoard.com


Browse our selection of premium walnut cutting boards at CuttingBoard.com. Best quality and low prices guaranteed with free shipping.




www.cuttingboard.com


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## toadie (Mar 6, 2021)

Black Walnut has the highest juglone content of any of the trees in this family. This is a prominent tree in the Carolinian zone which is a large area in North America and a tree gardening me battles. I have never understood why people use Black Walnut cutting boards. They are a beautiful wood that wood working me adores but I use a respirator to avoid the dust. That said English Walnut or walnuts from Europe have significantly less juglone and carry far less risk for food contact. Still why use it when another wood is available. By the way my Black Walnut cheese boards look awesome.


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## wood1954 (Mar 6, 2021)

I’ve been working with walnut wood for decades and never had a problem. Most wood once dry tends to lock in any chemical, obviously oak leaches tannins when wet but have you ever tasted tannins off an oak cutting board on your food? I believe juglone is a plant suppressant and don’t know of any studies that says the minuscule amount in the wood inhibit human growth, also when I spread walnut sawdust in the weeds it doesn’t impact the growth of the weeds.


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## toadie (Mar 6, 2021)

I agree the miniscule amount that might leach out while pressing grapes or cutting food is probably not a major cause for concern but... I really do battle the roots in the garden, especially around the tomatoes. Also horses have problems with their hooves and respiration when black walnut sawdust/shavings are used for bedding.


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## balatonwine (Mar 6, 2021)

toadie said:


> Also horses have problems with their hooves and respiration when black walnut sawdust/shavings are used for bedding.



Am glad I only have the Capthian Walnut. It still has hydrojuglone, but not so much as American Black Walnut. Leaves compost fine (after 6 weeks in a hot compost bed, any toxicity is over, and grow lots of vegetables in such compost without issues). And might tasty nuts. Ergo .. Not all walnuts (or walnut wood) are created (or compost, or should be judged) equal.


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## Bliorg (Mar 6, 2021)

FWIW, I've seen references that the irritants and allergens in walnut are almost entirely (or entirely, depending on source) restricted to the nuts, leaves, and roots. I've also read that the sensitivity to the dust is a different reaction than to juglone. YMMV.

All this good discussion aside, regardless of the wood that ultimately gets used, it will be finished with a hardening, food safe finish, which will be maintained as needed. So the contact between liquid and wood will be essentially nil.


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## Bliorg (Mar 6, 2021)

Okay, question for those of you with experience: The staves on my press originally were tapered back-to-front by about 1/8"+:


IMG_2608 by Scott, on Flickr

I've seen other, newer presses that had no taper at all. Does this matter either way? I have a bit at MLCS that I was going to buy to cut that but not sure now if it's necessary.

Thoughts?


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## stickman (Mar 6, 2021)

My press is old and the staves are also tapered. I'm not sure how much of a difference it really makes when in operation, but I believe it makes cleaning easier.


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## Bliorg (Mar 6, 2021)

stickman said:


> My press is old and the staves are also tapered. I'm not sure how much of a difference it really makes when in operation, but I believe it makes cleaning easier.


Good call! I’ll order the bit. Thanks for the input.


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## JTS84 (Mar 7, 2021)

When I built a basket I tapered the staves because that left a smaller flat of wood to be in contact with the hoop. When I tried a piece that wasn't tapered, only the corners of the wood would rest on the hoop. Tapering the staves made a better circle on the outside.


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## Bliorg (Dec 4, 2021)

Not meaning to stir the pot, but am gearing up to (hopefully) finish this project in the next month or so. Have been trolling FB Marketplace for lumber to rebuild the basket. No one local has any quartered white oak, which I'd love from an aesthetics view (and fuming is fun). Plenty of maple, which is what I'll probably go with in the end, though I don't like the look as much, especially with other viable, but better looking, options. Found a guy in FLA that would ship a box of 2+" wide walnut cutoffs, which would work for this. And I'm pretty sure I have enough walnut in the pile in the garage to finish this anyway. So, I was revisiting the whole "food safe finish" topic, should I actually use walnut (which I still think could be used raw, as is done in cutting boards). Anyway, over t' Woodcentral (a great site in its own right) I found the following article, with contributions by Bob Flexnor and Michael Desdner (Link to articles - I cannot paste them in without exceeding the maximum character limit here: Food-Safe Finishes). Great information to have, and fuel to draw your own informed conclusions.

​


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 4, 2021)

Walnut is a fairly soft wood, I would not buy factory equipment with walnut.
oak is chosen for strength, hickory is another strong wood, maple has a tight grain and is preferred on surfaces as food cutting boards and even countertops.
I am tempted to say every community has a high school with a shop that has the tools to make any shape you would want, and there is a good chance the exact species wood you want. A second source for small quantity shapes is a cabinet shop (as in kitchen cabinets).

I am also rebuilding an old press, ,,, for function the basket will probably be done with perforated stainless steel which came off Craig’s list.


Bliorg said:


> Not meaning to stir the pot, but am gearing up to (hopefully) finish this project in the next month or so. Have been trolling FB Marketplace for lumber to rebuild the basket. No one local has any quartered white oak, which I'd love from an aesthetics view (and fuming is fun). Plenty of maple, which is what I'll probably go with in the end, though I don't like the look as much, especially with other viable, but better looking, options. Found a guy in FLA that would ship a box of 2+" wide walnut cutoffs, which would work for this. And I'm pretty sure I have enough walnut in the pile in the garage to finish this anyway. So, I was revisiting the whole "food safe finish" topic, should I actually use walnut (which I still think could be used raw, as is done in cutting boards). Anyway, over t' Woodcentral (a great site in its own right) I found the following article, with contributions by Bob Flexnor and Michael Desdner (Link to articles - I cannot paste them in without exceeding the maximum character limit here: Food-Safe Finishes). Great information to have, and fuel to draw your own informed conclusions.
> 
> ​


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## balatonwine (Dec 5, 2021)

Bliorg said:


> Have been trolling FB Marketplace for lumber to rebuild the basket.
> ​



Many baskets are made of Beech. A very neutral wood regarding flavor. Requires no finish. Can be used natural and raw.


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## balatonwine (Dec 5, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> I am also rebuilding an old press, ,,, for function the basket will probably be done with perforated stainless steel



I have been thinking of also replacing the wood staves with stainless steel. If but nothing else, to save my back. Lifting the baskets on a #55 press is getting old....

The only issues I have not solved in such a conversion is how to keep a custom SS basket from scratching up the paint on the tray, and yet allowing press juice to flow as well as through wood staves at the bottom. I have some ideas, but none are fully formed in my mind yet.


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## Cap Puncher (Dec 6, 2021)

I’m currently finishing a #45 press that had water damage on some of the staves. They are beech. I am actually using Ash because the only beech board at my local hardwood lumber yard, looked pretty bad. 

While refinishing, i used a 12 gallon stainless basket for smaller batches. It was an insert that came with a stainless 84L pot I bought for fermentation. It was for crawfish boiling but worked great as a press basket. I cut a hole and used silicone tubing to protect the cut/paint. You could use silicone tubing at the bottom of the stainless basket to protect the paint on the press. 

FYI, I’m using EZ-Do for a finish coating on my beech/Ash staves. Just did them a couple nights ago.

The top pic are the beech, 2nd pic are the Ash. Bottom pic is the stainless basket on the #45 press base (from an apple press this year)


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## balatonwine (Dec 6, 2021)

Cap Puncher said:


> I am actually using Ash



Ash, also a good wood to use. Maple is also a wood I have see others recommend.



Cap Puncher said:


> You could use silicone tubing at the bottom of the stainless basket to protect the paint on the press.



Good idea.

Yes, I have thought of that. But since the juice actually flows down, till it hits the tray, then goes horizontal, the tubing would need to be added in pieces to allow spaces and horizontal flow from the tray. And having to remove, clean and replace a few dozen little tubing pieces seems like too much work (since I do maybe 10 different pressing a year some days apart which requires full dismantle and cleaning of everything). I thought about dipping the basket in liquid latex, and cutting holes, or expoxing in said silicone tubing, and other ideas. Basically, I simply have not decided or worked out all the +/- issues of each idea in my mind yet. 

But always happy to get input/ideas from others.


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## Rice_Guy (Dec 6, 2021)

@Cap Puncher always like a photo

I have several SS pots (baskets) but the biggest so far is a ten inch.


I will put a plate with holes under the basket/ cake, or a plastic mesh (circle cut out of a polyethylene cutting board/ mesh that came with a pizza delivery box.) PE would prevent scratches.
I also have several sizes of PVC pipe with holes drilled on the side that I have used as press baskets. My next change will be to figure out a way to hinge or pin the PVC to break the cake out.
Not asked, but I put acrylic rounds on top of the cake and under the wood blocks, it seems easier to clean than wood.


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## Cap Puncher (Dec 7, 2021)

[QUOTE="Rice_Guy, post: 813249, member: 30637
Not asked, but I put acrylic rounds on top of the cake and under the wood blocks, it seems easier to clean than wood.
[/QUOTE]
I like the idea of acrylic rounds on the cake. I did 2 in Ash half moons with 2 coats of EZ-do that I custom cut for my SS basket. They work well but even after 2 coats of the EZ-do and a month dry time, color from pressing still seeped in and it was a pain to clean them. Acrylic is a good idea


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## Bliorg (Dec 8, 2021)

Thanks for the thoughts, folks. 

I'm pretty sure the wood that was on the press originally, which was damaged, rotted, and falling apart, was beech. The mills local to me (except one) only carry local hardwoods - beech t'ain't one of them. The other mill only carries European beech, which is WAY out of my bottom feeder price range. 

Yes, walnut is softer than QSWO. And sugar/hard maple (_not _soft maple). Is it too soft for this service? I doubt it. That's my opinion, based on working a lot of walnut. YMMV. I'm not interested an a stainless basket, but I'm also not planning on doing 20 presses a season. Yet. Again, YMMV.

The acrylic rounds are a good idea. That said, my press plates are cast, but perforated similarly:






I'm as yet undecided as to which wood I'll end up using. Walnut is my favorite wood to work, all time. Ash is second. Fuming oak appeals to my love of woodworking and of chemistry. Maple is probably the most pragmatically appropriate wood for this (lacking beech locally); it's dull as Oprah to look at. But I may still end up with it. Like I've said - I look at this as a combination of a suitable wood, and something that I'll be happy with, and right or wrong, it's not solely a functional decision for me.

Process is a large part of the enjoyment for me. I'm enjoying every aspect of this project, including these design decisions along the way. I appreciate everyone's input about all of this - I learn a lot, and it spurs me to do more investigation. Thanks folks.


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## Bliorg (Jul 19, 2022)

PROGRESS!!!

After way too much thought, interruptions, and general stalling out, I got some uninterrupted shop time today and milled the staves. 

After deciding to use what I had on hand, rather than spend more money and have an overall accumulation in the shop, I landed on some really old cherry, some of which has been kicking around out there for over 25 years.





I only ended up using the 11' board and part of the shorter board. 

Cut to rough length:





Ripped on the table saw to just strong of 1-7/8" wide, matching the original staves:





Trimmed to final length - 16", again matching the original. I considered adding a couple inches overall length, but decided this is plenty of capacity, which honestly is likely more than I'll ever use.





The original staves were tapered about 1/8" each side back-to-front. I wanted to match that, and the easiest way seemed to be a 15 degree chamfer bit (from MLCS).





The edges were cut on a horizontal router table. Worked a treat.





There's a flat to each edge because 15 degrees wasn't quite steep enough, and routing the entire thickness would have resulted in too much material being taken off. 

The table saw left a pretty sharp edge, which seemed like a hazard. Broke the edges with a 45 degree chamfer bit. Total router table work was 16 cuts per piece.





Finished pieces:





I ended up with 23, need 22. A spare seemed like it was worth it.

Now that I know the final thickness of the pieces I can order my hardware. Once I get it I'll set up a jig on the drill press and drill the holes for the screws. In the meantime I'll figure out a finish for the wood. Any luck I'll be using this yet this year.

Feels good to get off dead zero with this project.


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## wood1954 (Jul 19, 2022)

Very nice, I enjoyed making my press


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## Cap Puncher (Jul 19, 2022)

I refurbished a #45 press last year and replace 1/2 of the staves. I used 
E-Z DO on the staves for the finish. It is a food contact safe polyurethane. It worked well.


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## Bliorg (Jul 26, 2022)

And, the basket is complete.






Ended up using the cherry I had on hand, replaced all the hardware with 18-8 black oxide stainless. The rivets I removed were replaced with stainless binding barrels, which provide plenty of room for the joining bars.

There's a little tweaking of stave placement to do, as the alignment isn't quite right. But it's awfully hot in the garage, and it can wait. Will take it outside soon, hose it down, and hopefully put it to work this fall. Still need to make some press blocks for it - have some 4x4 ash but will probably use SPF and see how robust it is.


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