# K-Met What's it mean???



## Guest (Dec 12, 2007)

I'm trying to figure out what the definition of the acronym K-Met is and subsiquently,why it's necessary in my wine.


Anyone have an answer?
Mike


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## Wade E (Dec 12, 2007)

K is the Chemical letter for Potassium and Meta is Metabisulfite(K-Meta). It helps fight off microorganisms and also is a good anti-oxidant which will preserve your wine for extended periods of time.


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## masta (Dec 12, 2007)

Plenty of info on why K-meta is important in wine makinghere in the PowerPoint slide show that I presented at Winestock this year:


<a href="/images/uploads/20101201_180711_PH_Acid_and_SO2.pdf" target="_blank">/images/uploads/20101201_180711_PH_Acid_and_SO2.pdf
</a> 




If you do not have PowerPoint a viewer can be downloaded here:


http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=428D5727-43AB-4F24-90B7-A94784AF71A4&amp;displaylang=en
</span>


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## onin24eagle (Dec 22, 2007)

Masta,


Thanks for the link to the Powerpoint show. I found it very informative, but have a question. I bought some k-meta to sanitize with. The label states to dissolve 3 TBS/Gal of water. The guy at the store I bought it from said it would last a long time, but using this much K-Meta every time I sanitze means it will be gone very quickly. Does this mixture sound correct?


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## grapeman (Dec 22, 2007)

You can reuse it if you are careful not to contaminate the solution. Get a gallon glass or plastic jug and keep in it tightly corked. It is a lot cheaper by the pound also and that will last a long time.


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## masta (Dec 22, 2007)

onin24eagle said:


> Masta,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link to the Powerpoint show. I found it very informative, but have a question. I bought some k-meta to sanitize with. The label states to dissolve 3 TBS/Gal of water. The guy at the store I bought it from said it would last a long time, but using this much K-Meta every time I sanitize means it will be gone very quickly. Does this mixture sound correct?




Yes that is the correct ratio (3 TBS TO 1 GAL) and if you buy Na-meta (sodium metabisulfite) it is much cheaper than K-meta and buying it in bulk as appleman suggested will also save some cash.


5 lbs for $10.99;
http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=7060C*Edited by: masta *


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## laneygirl (Dec 22, 2007)

appleman said:


> You can reuse it if you are careful not to contaminate the solution. Get a gallon glass or plastic jug and keep in it tightly corked. It is a lot cheaper by the pound also and that will last a long time.








How can you tell if it's contaminated? If it has a few specks of dirt (or something) is it still reusable? I don't want to cheap out, but also don't want to waste it if I can continue to use it. 


I've been storing mine in a plastic water jug. Is that OK or is glass preferrable?


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2007)

Whenever in doubt, throw it out.
You can buy more sanitizer (or whatever)for $5.00
What's your wine cost you?


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## grapeman (Dec 23, 2007)

I only reuse k-meta solution that I have put in a bucket or other clean vessel to soak small utensils that were clean to begin with. Anything used for general cleaning gets discarded. Before I put anything back in a bottle, I check it for strength with a careful quick sniff. If it makes you step back after sniffing(strong smell) and is visibly clean, it's still good. 


Like they said, if in doubt throw it out.


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## Wade E (Dec 23, 2007)

I use a spray bottle for cleaning all my utensils. The meta stays pretty good in it also. I bought a new sprayer just for this purpose at a dollar store, please do not use 1 that had another chemical in it.


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## grapeman (Dec 23, 2007)

Good warning Wade about not reusing a spray bottle from something else. DO NOT USE that little spray bottle the Roundup came in. The little bottles can be bought cheaply at home harware stores,etc.


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## muscadine wine (Jan 7, 2008)

I use spray bottles for B-Brite, Campden tablet sanitizing solution (12 tablets per gallon), and another one for a solution mixed up for me by my LHBS. It contains citric acid and K-meta (I think). Works great. Each bottle has a different color sprayer on it, so I know what I am reaching for without using a label. The bottles were picked up at Sam's Club.


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## pizz65 (Aug 3, 2008)

Do you need to rinse your bottle after you sanitize with K-met??


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## Wade E (Aug 3, 2008)

you do not have to and really shouldnt rinse out any bottles after sanitizing with k-meta as that would defeat the purpose as you would just be introducing bacteria again. Just let them drip dry and they dont have to be perfectly dry either.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2008)

The chlorine compound in the K-Met evaporates in a short period of time.
What's left in the bottle just before fillingis so insignifcant as to be ofno concern to me anyway.
I dont rinse because like Wade said, even the purist of water leaves the bottle open to bacteria between the rinse and fill cycle.


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## Wade E (Aug 3, 2008)

Muscadine wine, Im looking at your campden tablet spraying solution and if you are using that to sanitize stuff i dont believe its going to work as that is very weak. K-meta to be used as a sanitizer should be used at 3 tbsp. per gallon. 3.5 campden tablets = 1/4 tsp of k-meta and 3 tsp.'s of k-meta =1 tbsp so I believe you would need 126 campden tablets per gallon for a sanitizing solution, this is why we buy it by the lb.


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## bmckee56 (Aug 3, 2008)

I also add 1/2 tsp citric acid to my solution which is used in the spray bottle. 3 tbsp K-Meta &amp; 1/2 tsp citric acid to 1 gallon of water. 


I keep 4 gallons of sanitizing solution made up all the time. I keep rotating the jugs to ensure it gets used up before going bad.


Salute! *Edited by: bmckee56 *


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## muscadine wine (Aug 9, 2008)

wade said:


> Muscadine wine, Im looking at your campden tablet spraying solution and if you are using that to sanitize stuff i dont believe its going to work as that is very weak. K-meta to be used as a sanitizer should be used at 3 tbsp. per gallon. 3.5 campden tablets = 1/4 tsp of k-meta and 3 tsp.'s of k-meta =1 tbsp so I believe you would need 126 campden tablets per gallon for a sanitizing solution, this is why we buy it by the lb.



wade--I'll ask my LHBS about this. He is the one that told me that 12 tablets would be enough. I have never bought K-meta by the pound, but I may have to try it. I am always learning something new. Thanks for the info.


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## Wade E (Aug 9, 2008)

1 tablet per gallon of must is good to kill off off wild yeast cells for wine. Dble check my math but I know 3.5 = 1/4 tsp and I know that the recommended dosage for making a solution is 3 tbls per gallon. Im pretty sure it takes 3 tsp to equal 1 tbls also so I think its 3.5 x 4 x 3. 
*OK, my math was way off and I knew it sounded high but my mind worked it out a few times and every time i did it, it came out the same but the real answer is 42</font>*.







Shame on me!</font></font>


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## muscadine wine (Aug 9, 2008)

wade said:


> 1 tablet per gallon of must is good to kill off off wild yeast cells for wine. Dble check my math but I know 3.5 = 1/4 tsp and I know that the recommended dosage for making a solution is 3 tbls per gallon. Im pretty sure it takes 3 tsp to equal 1 tbls also so I think its 3.5 x 4 x 3.
> *OK, my math was way off and I knew it sounded high but my mind worked it out a few times and every time i did it, it came out the same but the real answer is 42</font>*.
> 
> 
> ...



wade--42 is still a long way from 12. I am particular about cleaning and sanitizing. I hope to have an answer next week. Should make for an interesting conversation.


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## Wade E (Aug 9, 2008)

The citric acid does make the k-meta work much better and be more effective.


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## muscadine wine (Aug 9, 2008)

I know that there is citric acid in the other sanitizer that I use. It will burn your sinuses out if you get a good whiff of it.


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## Wade E (Aug 9, 2008)

K-meta in the right amount will do that also.


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## univity (Aug 15, 2008)

So Na-Meta works just as well as K-Meta and is cheaper?


Is it ok to use gallon plastic jugs from distilled water to store the mixed solution?


How long is it good on the shelf mixed?


I always keep one filled with EasyClean, but usually pitch it and make freshif it has been sitting around over a month. Don't know if thats right or not - just my guess - havent had any wine get contaminated on me yet


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## Mike1973 (Aug 15, 2008)

univity said:
 

> So Na-Meta works just as well as K-Meta and is cheaper?
> 
> 
> Is it ok to use gallon plastic jugs from distilled water to store the mixed solution?
> ...



I use one of my All Juice buckets to store it in, I think the solution is good for 2-3months as long as it stays un-contaminated.


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## Wade E (Aug 15, 2008)

Like Mike said it will last around 2-3 months, sometimes even more. Youll know if its good when it hasnt turned brown and packs a wholoop when opened and you put your sniffer up to it but be careful as it will knock you on your a$$! Na-Meta is actually a little more potent as a sanitizer and a little cheaper. I would not store it in a plastic water jugs or milk jugs as they eventually will spring a leak. I had it happen twice, the first time I thought it was just the container but after the 2nd 1 Im convinced that the sanitizer is slowly eating it away so now I use a glass jug with cap.


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## univity (Aug 16, 2008)

OK - I was curious about the milk jug thing - so I decided to actually use that college degree a little and think back to the biochemistry days of yore....


Sodium Metabisulfite = Na2S2O5
Water = H2O


Na2S2O5 + H2O= SO2 + Na2SO4 + H2O


Which the _balanced_ equation would be...


0Na2S2O5 + H2O = 0SO2 + 0Na2SO4 + H2O


anyway... this is an equilibrium *but* when there is SO2 and H2O another equilibrium reaction will occur in conjunction...


SO<SUB>2</SUB> + H<SUB>2</SUB>O ⇌ HSO<SUB>3</SUB><SUP>−</SUP> + H<SUP>+</SUP>


HSO<SUB>3</SUB><SUP>− </SUP>is sulfurous acid 


Since it is a constant back and forth it will probably take a long time, but will eventually break down the petroleum in the plastic - especially since milk jugs are so weak. Plastic spray bottles will probably hold up fine, but the little tube or some parts in the sprayer may get eaten away over time.


Glass is probably a better storage solution 


YAY to the internet for helping me find this information - ironically it was the birth of the internet that diverted me from biochemistry and into what I do for a living today. yay internet





*Edited by: univity *


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## Travisty (Aug 16, 2008)

Univity, I believe HSO3- is a bisulfite ion which isa conjugate base of sulfurous acid. From my quick reading, sulfurous acid has not actually ever been detected in solution. The bisulfite ion will definitely be present, however I don’t think it is very corrosive to plastics. It appears to be very weakly acidic. The extra proton there will make the solution more acidic, though I’m not sure what kind of concentrations it would exist in. Anyone evermeasured thepH of sanitizing strength NaMeta solution?


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## univity (Aug 16, 2008)

yeah - but a H+ will chill nearby which is what makes the acid (H2SO3) - its an equilibrium 
since it's an equilibrium its going to take a VERY long time but since milk jug plastic is so weak to begin with it just may eat away at it - it's just a guess - been a loong time since I have thought about any of this type of stuff - and killed a lot of brain cells along the way :O


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## Travisty (Aug 20, 2008)

univity said:


> been a loong time since I have thought about any of this type of stuff - and killed a lot of brain cells along the way :O




Haha, I hear ya!


Since sulfurous acid has not actually been found in solution (according to Wikipedia anyway




), I'm thinking that the equilibrium does not favor it enough to allow it to be present enough to eat away at anything.


And like the great Michael Scott once said:


"Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world, can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information."








Experientially, I've had a 1/2 gallon milk container half full of sanitizing strength K-Meta in my fridge for months now and it seems to be holding up just fine so far. Either I have not waited long enough or wade just got some bad containers!


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