# A good general ferilizer



## hzcvj8 (May 8, 2017)

Is there a good general fertilizer to apply to first and second year vines? What about Miracle Grow?


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## Johnd (May 8, 2017)

hzcvj8 said:


> Is there a good general fertilizer to apply to first and second year vines? What about Miracle Grow?



What your vines need is largely a function of the soil. If you have a local county co-op or agent, you should be able to get soil sample boxes, follow the instructions on how to sample and fill them, and mail them off. In a few weeks, you'll get results back along with fertilizer / soil amendment recommendations, based upon the type of crop you are going. I do this sampling/testing/fertilizing at my hunting property every three years, it's really pretty easy......


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## ibglowin (May 8, 2017)

I have really crappy soil with little to no organic matter. Lots of basalt rock. I only have ~35 cold hardy vines but they have done well when I hit them with Miracle Grow "Bloom Buster". I hit them every couple of weeks throughout the Spring/Summer months then taper off.


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## salcoco (May 8, 2017)

A regular 10-10-10 or 13-13-13 will work once the soil testing is done to identify specific nutrients missing. 1/2 cup per plant at bud break and another 1/2 cup per plant post harvest. 40% of root growth on vine done in fall after harvest. good watering regime is also required in fall.


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## AkTom (May 8, 2017)

If you can find Jack's brand, it's great fertilizer. It will be at a local greenhouse, not big chain stores.


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## dwhill40 (May 9, 2017)

My little vineyard is growing in a century old cow pasture. The soil is/was demineralized and acidic- topsoil is 5.2 and subsoil is 4.9. I applied plenty of lime for the topsoil and gypsum to prevent aluminum uptake in the subsoil. I read up on mycorrhizae and found superphosphates (the P in commercial fertilizer) will regulate a gene in the vine preventing the attachment of myke to the roots which will reduce the mining of water and trace minerals. A solution to this is soft rock phosphate. I side banded with calphos this spring after the initial application of soft rock phoshpate four years ago. I sideband rock dust(granite dust or azomite for K and the full spectrum of trace elements. With the long growing season, heat and sometimes rainy spells the application of nitrogen can be a danger so for N I use Black Kow compost broadcast in the row middles. While this method isn't everyones cup of tea it seems to be working well for me. I've had very little insect pressure. I do apply one dose of imidacloprid after bud break. I'd like to grow organic but anthracnose and black rot will not let that happen. Good luck and happy reading.


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## Masbustelo (May 10, 2017)

I am an organically growth inclined individual and love to use compost. A warning note is that compost may contain residual herbicides and grapes are extremely sensitive to the presence in parts per million of certain herbicides. Agricultural bi-products in the U.S. are extremely contaminated. Compost virtually always trumps chemical fertilizer because it also contains micro nutrients as well and boosts your organic matter, which aids in nutrient and water retention, and over all soil health. Where I live it can be purchased for $10 per ton. To use it safely, it has been suggested to purchase it in advance, pot up garden type peas in the compost. Grow them out for several weeks. If the peas appear normal it is probably safe to use.


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## balatonwine (May 12, 2017)

dwhill40 said:


> I'd like to grow organic but anthracnose and black rot will not let that happen.



Have you tried Serenade? 

Else, there is mostly only lime sulfur or copper for organic. They do work, I use them, but the are not ideal for well documented reasons.


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## dwhill40 (May 13, 2017)

I have used Serenade with good results for late season rots. Not sure if it would protect against five months of persistent black rot pressure. I have to protect against PD anyway with a systemic since I'm on the northern edge of the PD zone, so organic is out. 

I am going to attempt organic blackberries though. Wild blackberries in the area are a pestilence.


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## sour_grapes (May 13, 2017)

balatonwine said:


> Else, there is mostly only lime sulfur or copper for organic.



Hooo, boy. Sounds like a George Carlin routine coming.

Why do we call inorganic chemical compounds "organic" but most organic chemical compounds don't qualify as organic?   

(This is not a serious comment on your post, Balaton. Just a wry observation on language.)


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## treesaver (May 13, 2017)

I've never fertilized much in the past. The week before bud break, we went into a monsoon period, and I was planning to fertilize at least some of my vines. It finially dried up, but I have a lot of growth now, and am scared to apply it now. Do I just need to chill and wait till after they go dormant this fall? I have very heavy clay base soil, and is a pita to work with.


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## dwhill40 (May 14, 2017)

@Treesaver- There are so many variables to that question... Best I'd dare say is be careful with the nitrogen.


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## balatonwine (May 15, 2017)

sour_grapes said:


> Why do we call inorganic chemical compounds "organic" but most organic chemical compounds don't qualify as organic?
> 
> (This is not a serious comment on your post, Balaton. Just a wry observation on language.)



I understand this is not a serious comment. 

But I have actually had some people ask me this seriously. So, for anyone that may in fact be now wondering about it, a serious answer:

Short answer: It is simply an issue of definition.

Long answer: Many words can have different meanings of course. So "organic" when used to define farming methods by farmers is not the same as "organic" when used to define matter by chemists. Just like while physicists use "flavors" to describe particles, I can assure everyone that no physicist actually tastes them.

Basically, the agricultural definition of "organic" allow the use of naturally occurring substances while prohibiting or strictly limiting synthetic substances. Sulfur, for example, is thus a naturally occurring element and follows the definition.


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