# Zinfandel - what's different?



## Obelix (Jan 11, 2019)

Hi, 

Last year, in my first attempt to make wine - I crushed 300kg of Shiraz. 
I read various booklets, instructions, articles, and received a lot of good advice through this forum which resulted in a pretty good wine. 

This year, I got an opportunity to buy Zinfandel. Western Australia doesn't have much Zin planted yet, so I'm quite excited about it. 

Wondering if I need to do anything different with Zinfandel?
Zin tastes differently from other wines - having that special "ting", and but wondering if that's achieved by some variation in the process. 
The only difference, I read about so far is that some people squeeze some juice early into a Zin Rose, then add the skins back to the original mass to achieve more tannin. (?)


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 12, 2019)

Most of what's unique about Zin comes from the grape itself. Not much you need to do in the process that would be different than for any other wine. I tend to just try and find a yeast that'll bring out the qualities I'm looking for, then let it rip. Here's a great guide to yeast pairing: https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wyeastpair.pdf


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## Obelix (Jan 12, 2019)

Thanks Boatboy. That will make it simpler 
Already have the Syr yeast and will use it. Seems to be exactly what I need. 
Hopefully the typical taste will come out OK.


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## CDrew (Jan 12, 2019)

Zinfandel can be a little on the light color and body side. So if you want a "big" style Zinfandel, you might want to use the pectic enzymes after crush and before fermentation. Several of us here have used Lallemand LallzymeEX to good effect, but I'm sure there are alternatives. Your idea about a higher skin to juice ratio sounds promising too, and I may have to try that next year.


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## askins3097 (Jan 12, 2019)

CDrew said:


> Zinfandel can be a little on the light color and body side. So if you want a "big" style Zinfandel, you might want to use the pectic enzymes after crush and before fermentation. Several of us here have used Lallemand LallzymeEX to good effect, but I'm sure there are alternatives. Your idea about a higher skin to juice ratio sounds promising too, and I may have to try that next year.



I know people that add a lug or two of Alicante grapes to their Zinfandel. I never asked why but I’m assuming it’s to help add color and body.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 12, 2019)

I definitely go w/ enzymes, but I do that on all my reds. I generally like a 'bigger' style Zin and will blend some Petite Sirah (15% or less) in to beef it up. I usually think its just fine on its own, but the PS makes it more to my liking.


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## Obelix (Jan 12, 2019)

Thanks, will read up on pectic enzymes. Not familiar with the role and purpose of it, but I definitely want it "big".

Interesting comment on Zin being light bodied - all Zins I tried are big bodied and tasted great, except where the taste was overwhelmed by the oak.


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## Obelix (Jan 12, 2019)

BTW - I have a proper press which can squeeze a last drop from the skins. Last year's shiraz is very full bodied because I may have overdone it a bit. It seems appropriate to replicate the same wit Zin then.


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## Obelix (Jan 12, 2019)

OK, read on the Peptic Enzymes and it seems desirable.
However, I can only buy a Pectinase priduct. The LallzymeEX I can only buy in $240 quantity, so not really practical.
Wonder if Pectinase will do the trick, but not too keen to risk the whole batch. Unless I find the LAllemand product at a reasonable price in the next few weeks, may give it a miss this year, and learn from the outcome.

re: blending syrah
It's a month of a difference in ripening time here. BTW, I'm curious on how the Zin would turn out on it's own.


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## 4score (Jan 12, 2019)

My experience with Zin - 

The only time I had a stuck ferment. I have heard Zin may be more prone to that than many other varieties.

Zin is known for "brix creep" - the sugar levels you measure at crush will really increase over the next 48 hours - again, more than most varieties. We had to water back.

But, that being said, a great grape variety and one I think I need to crush again!

Good luck.


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## Obelix (Jan 13, 2019)

Yes, haven't seen a bottle of Zin with the alcohol content less than 14% with some bottles from the US bought her with a 15.5% alcohol content.
Dalmatian's Crljenak is generally around 14.5%. so fully expect a high alcohol content. Have a yeast to match it  Hopefully won't get stuck.


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## NorCal (Jan 13, 2019)

@4score beat me to it. Zin is an easy wine to make as the flavors will cover flaws, but I’ve heard (and experienced) that it's prone to sticking. The grapes that I’ve gotten didn’t need any special treatment, as the extraction was just fine without additives. The one year we did use an enzyme, the wine was quite tannic and needed a few years in the bottle to tame.


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## Obelix (Jan 13, 2019)

re: The one year we did use an enzyme, the wine was quite tannic and needed a few years in the bottle to tame.
Thanks, this is very interesting to hear. We'll see how it goes without it this year and improve the next one if necessary. 
Hopefully won't stuck - the yeast is resilient to high temperatures and high alcohol level. Will monitor the BRIX daily and see if it needs any intervention.


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## tradowsk (Jan 14, 2019)

Instead of using pectic enzyme, you could try a cold soak or extended maceration to get more color, body, tannin, etc. out of the grapes while having more control of the process.


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## Obelix (Jan 15, 2019)

Thanks, that's a good idea. 
I read about it in some texts, and it says it needs to be done in a stable and controlled temperature.
My primary is done outside, under the carport, and the temperatures here can be very high.


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## Johnd (Jan 15, 2019)

Obelix said:


> Thanks, that's a good idea.
> I read about it in some texts, and it says it needs to be done in a stable and controlled temperature.
> My primary is done outside, under the carport, and the temperatures here can be very high.



I know that growing conditions can differ drastically from year to year, but your wine from last year was just huge for a shiraz, big and very jammy, indicative of very well ripened fruit. The color was amazingly dark and inky. If you have similar conditions this year approaching and at harvest of your zinfandel, you may have to do very little to get a very well extracted wine, you'll have to make that judgement at harvest. This is where the "art" of winemaking comes into play, figuring out what to do with the process based upon the fruit you are looking at and tasting.


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## Obelix (Jan 15, 2019)

Thanks John. Appreciate your kind words. Means a lot 

Well, that's what I'm hoping for too. The fruit last year was perfect. Hopefully this one will too.

This year is slightly cooler and wetter than the last one .

I'll be checking BRIX and tasting wine daily. Last year I had no idea, and acted on instinct on when to press.
This year I'll know a bit better but will do the same. BRIX and tasting daily and press when it tastes good.

So far, I understand the Zin making won't be much different from Shiraz which is a relief. 

If it goes pearshape, I can still visit the same vinyard and buy Shiraz again two weeks later.


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## ceeaton (Jan 15, 2019)

Obelix said:


> My primary is done outside, under the carport, and the temperatures here can be very high.


According to what I've been reading you will get better extraction of color and tannins at the upper end of the temperature range for reds. Here's the first article that I pulled up from a "red wine fermentation temperature" search:

http://winemakersacademy.com/effects-fermentation-temperature-wine/

If you get too hot under the carport you could always rotate a few sealed frozen water containers in your must while you are fermenting to help hold the temperatures down a bit, though it sounds like you had no issues with your Shiraz batch from last year.


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## Obelix (Jan 16, 2019)

Thanks Ceeton - in Australia it's always a worry. 
Having said that, Western Australia typically has the highest temerature on the continent, but this (and the last) year, we had much more bearable temperatures in low 30s C. 
I guess, the low 30s C will be good for the extraction. It was certainly good last year  
That's why I hope it wont' get stuck. The usual high alcohol content of Zin should be OK with the selected yeast. Won't allow the natural yeast to take hold.


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## Obelix (Feb 3, 2019)

Yesterday I crushed 17 boxes of Zinfandel - appx 20kg of grapes per box. At least that's what it was sold as. Could be slightly less. But at $15 per box, I find it very acceptable. 
The BRIX is 23, and the Ph 3.4 - seems perfect. 
Temperatures are around 28C-30C. It will go up later on in the week, but I don't see it over 35. Hopefully it won't get stuck. 

Today, I extracted 25L of juice to separately ferment Rose Zin, and also to make the rest exposed to more skin. Really keen to get that intense fruit flavour, so typical for Zins. 

I decided to re-use this 12 months old Syrah yeast which I kept in the fridge tightly sealed.
I was a bit apprehensive, but I added 80g instead of calculated 60g, and it reacted with the Go-Ferm yeast food and has gone very active after I added some juice into it. 
Once in the must, iIt reacted with the must very quickly, and the whole thing is very active already. 
May try it again next year. Why waste a yeast which performs so well? Obviously test it in a timely manner...


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## Johnd (Feb 3, 2019)

Obelix said:


> Yesterday I crushed 17 boxes of Zinfandel - appx 20kg of grapes per box. At least that's what it was sold as. Could be slightly less. But at $15 per box, I find it very acceptable.
> The BRIX is 23, and the Ph 3.4 - seems perfect.
> Temperatures are around 28C-30C. It will go up later on in the week, but I don't see it over 35. Hopefully it won't get stuck.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you’re off to a wonderful start and you’ve got pretty good temps for kicking off fermentation. Just watch that they (temps) don’t spike too high for too long since you’re interested in preserving all of the fruity flavors that you can. 
A little spike in the 32 C range for a half day or day, followed by a finish in the mid 20’s would be good for extraction and preservation of flavors, if you can muster up that kind of temp. control.


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## Obelix (Feb 3, 2019)

Today was also under 30, tomorrow too, but then it's going to be 32 to 36 for 3-4 days. Given my VAT is under cover, it may be OK.

I'm currently worried that I may have bought too much. The cap is floating now and is pushing the cover a bit and it's quite hard to turn it over.
We'll see tomorrow.

It seems that lessons learned with Shiraz over the ph may not be needed here. The ph is good, and the grapes in general feel more acidic.


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## Johnd (Feb 3, 2019)

Obelix said:


> Today was also under 30, tomorrow too, but then it's going to be 32 to 36 for 3-4 days. Given my VAT is under cover, it may be OK.
> 
> I'm currently worried that I may have bought too much. The cap is floating now and is pushing the cover a bit and it's quite hard to turn it over.
> We'll see tomorrow.
> ...



If you’re pH is 3.4, that’s a decent starting place and should yield a finished wine (post AF and MLF) in the 3.5 - 3.6 range, not too shabby at all for a Zinfandel.........though you may need a bit more zing on your rose’.


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## Obelix (Feb 3, 2019)

Yes, I found some instructions on how to make Rose, but have lost the link. Need to track it down asap.


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## Obelix (Feb 4, 2019)

Malo was sent today via Express mail. Should arrive tomorrow, but knowing Australia Post, it may take three days...

So I'll introduce it to the must 4-5 days into the primary. Not ideal but it is what it is.

Wondering if I should add Malo to these 30 litres of Rose separated early, or stop the secondary with sulfites?

Edit 5/02 - malo arrived and added to both. Should be OK - if not, may correct it with some Tartaric later.


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## Obelix (Dec 23, 2019)

Have I mentioned the wine turned out great? Bottled the first keg in early November, and it was already settled. 
The small amount of Rose I made is pretty average. It's drinkable as a "spritzer" mix with soda, but it'smainly forgettable...
The temperatures rose to 40C and the Brix went to 0 in 4-5 days. I wanted to have na extended fermentation, but, had to press it early. 

Nevertheless - the wine is very much to my liking. I prefer it to Shiraz, and have pre-ordered 15 boxes (300kg+) for this season.


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## Mario Dinis (Dec 23, 2019)

Obelix said:


> Have I mentioned the wine turned out great? Bottled the first keg in early November, and it was already settled.
> The small amount of Rose I made is pretty average. It's drinkable as a "spritzer" mix with soda, but it'smainly forgettable...
> The temperatures rose to 40C and the Brix went to 0 in 4-5 days. I wanted to have na extended fermentation, but, had to press it early.
> 
> Nevertheless - the wine is very much to my liking. I prefer it to Shiraz, and have pre-ordered 15 boxes (300kg+) for this season.


Just dropped by to say that I'm a big fan of Asterix and Obelix. Have the whole book colection.


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## Donz (Dec 28, 2019)

We did 2,000lbs of Zin this year. Blend was 80% Old Vine Zin / 12% Carignan / 8% Petit Syrah. The yeast we chose was Avante Renaissance and VP41 MLB. No Enzymes. It was left on the skins for 7 days before pressing.

The color and taste is already very promising


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## Obelix (Dec 28, 2019)

Sounds pretty promissing.
I was happy with the Syrah yeast and will use it again. It tolerates high temperatures and high alcohol levels well.
Unfortunatelly, what I have in my fridge won't work for the 3rd year. Tested it, and seems very weak. Will order it again along with the WP41.

I kept mine on the skins for 5 days as the temperatures were hitting 40C and the BRIX was down to zero. I wanted to keep it on the skins for another few days, but it was risky. It still turned out well.


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## buzi (Dec 30, 2019)

I don't know if you have the equipment or not but it would be cool to separate off 25-30 liters and try another yeast. It will expand the possibilities and give you more levers to play with to allow you to bring out different flavors...it is one of my most favorite parts of the hobby. Good luck this year and great thread!


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## Obelix (Dec 30, 2019)

Not really. It's too much stuff already. Can't double up on vats and storage. I did a lot of spec comparison to select this yeast to suit the grapes and local conditions. Also, it gets too expensive, as this quality yeast I get in 500g quantities.


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## buzi (Dec 30, 2019)

Understood!


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## Obelix (Feb 15, 2021)

Hmmm, it's been more than a year since my last post
My 2019 Zin is a full body, great to drink. Still have about 30 bottles left.
I just bottled the first keg of 2020 Zin. Still have 150 Litres left (200 bottles).
It's been a great success. Just so nice to drink. Nicer than 2019. 
I was worried about 2020 as the fermentation went through several 40C + days (105F) , and I was inserting frozen bottles to the must to keep the temperatures down. Pressed after 5 days. Still turned out great.
So much good wine... so considered to skip this year, but the grower called if I needed any this year...well, why not, still have a 300 Litres of tank space available. So 16 boxes (650-750 pounds?). The grapes very sweet and acidic to eat. Just past the prime,starting to dry out. Perfect.
The temps are in 35-37C (95 to 98 F). Hot, but less hot than the last year. BRIX 23, dropped to 10 after 48 hrs. The last years yeast working great. VP41 going in tomorrow.


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## CDrew (Feb 15, 2021)

That's great. So is Zinfandel widely grown in Australia? It does seem like the climate would be perfect for it.

But anyway, congrats on the start of a new vintage.


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## Obelix (Feb 15, 2021)

Thanks CDrew.
Zin is not common at all, and the growers who make wine sell it quickly at a high price. I was lucky to find a a local grower who only sells grapes. He told me that some big companies want to buy everything he produces, so I may not be so lucky in the future.


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## REDRUM (Feb 18, 2021)

Obelix said:


> My 2019 Zin is a full body, great to drink.


I can vouch for this! Great drop - and thanks again for the bottle swap.



> I just bottled the first keg of 2020 Zin. Still have 150 Litres left (200 bottles).
> It's been a great success. Just so nice to drink. Nicer than 2019.
> I was worried about 2020 as the fermentation went through several 40C + days (105F) , and I was inserting frozen bottles to the must to keep the temperatures down. Pressed after 5 days. Still turned out great.
> So much good wine... so considered to skip this year, but the grower called if I needed any this year...well, why not, still have a 300 Litres of tank space available. So 16 boxes (650-750 pounds?). The grapes very sweet and acidic to eat. Just past the prime,starting to dry out. Perfect.
> The temps are in 35-37C (95 to 98 F). Hot, but less hot than the last year. BRIX 23, dropped to 10 after 48 hrs. The last years yeast working great. VP41 going in tomorrow.



Looking forward to hearing about the progress. I have done the 'ice bottle' method in the past, definitely preferable to having a ferment run too hot.


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## Bossbaby (Feb 18, 2021)

I'm jealous of your warm climate, just coming out of a deep freeze here in Wisconsin. Spring seems so far away but its giving me time for experimental frozen fruit wine making.. cheers!


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## CDrew (Feb 18, 2021)

It's funny but it seems too early for harvest. Zinfandel in California usually harvests around September 15. So it seems like in Australia it should be March 15. But, you have ripe grapes, so it isn't an exact 6 month offset.

I've made 4 vintages of Primitivo (Zinfandel's identical twin brother) and drank many gallons of California Zinfanel over the years. A terrific and versatile grape. Post some pics of your set up.


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## Obelix (Feb 19, 2021)

REDRUM said:


> I can vouch for this! Great drop - and thanks again for the bottle swap.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing about the progress. I have done the 'ice bottle' method in the past, definitely preferable to having a ferment run too hot.



Thanks !!!
It would be great to swap again around Christmas. We quite liked your wine too.

Pressed it yesterday already. The BRIX dropped to zero in 5 days.


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## Obelix (Feb 19, 2021)

Bossbaby said:


> I'm jealous of your warm climate, just coming out of a deep freeze here in Wisconsin. Spring seems so far away but its giving me time for experimental frozen fruit wine making.. cheers!



It's nice when it is under 30C, but it's a hell when it hits 40s. 
Would be nice to experience snow every nowand again.


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## Obelix (Feb 19, 2021)

CDrew said:


> It's funny but it seems too early for harvest. Zinfandel in California usually harvests around September 15. So it seems like in Australia it should be March 15. But, you have ripe grapes, so it isn't an exact 6 month offset.
> 
> I've made 4 vintages of Primitivo (Zinfandel's identical twin brother) and drank many gallons of California Zinfanel over the years. A terrific and versatile grape. Post some pics of your set up.


It was ready late January last year. This year, I got it 2 weeks later.
High temperatures...
Last year was hotter, hence even earlier.
A 100L of the last years vintage in kegs.
The painting is of an old peasant in Dalmatia - as painted by my father in law 50 years ago.
earlier.
Some storage...crushing - a family affair


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## CDrew (Feb 19, 2021)

Very nice family enterprise! Thanks for the pics. Nice to see the future winemakers already involved.


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