# Blueberry Again !



## Scooter68 (Jun 17, 2017)

Well the blueberry plants are in full production now. I've been picking about 5 cups every other day for the last 2 weeks. As a result, since we freeze or give away a good portion of that harvest. (Nice thing about a small town barbershop - I get a really good haircut when I tip my barber in advance with a two cup bag of Blueberries)

So in putting away a few bags of berries I found that we had a pretty good stash of berries from the last few years. 15 3/4 lbs to be exact. That's about right for a 3 gallon batch of blueberry wine. I will probably add in one days new picking to the batch (about 1 lb more) and get this batch going. Right now they are defrosting in the bucket since yesterday. 

With this being a rainy day it looks like a good project to go mash the berries and put the pulp into a fruit bag.

This time I'm going to aim my ABV at a bout 13-14 %. I prefer to aim a little higher.

Saturday 6/17/2017 1:00PM  - Crushed total of 16 .75 lbs of blueberries with a manual conical ricer. Total juice and pulp = 2 gallons. Juice SG 1.042 pH 2.98 Added 2 dissolved campden tablets will make simple syrup to bring SG to 1.100 approx. At same time will push volume up to 3.4/3.5 approx to allow for loss of pulp volume. (Later today)

*Question for the old hands - Thought about straining out the seeds with fine mesh strainer. Any chemical analysis of what the seeds contribute to the situation? Wonder if they are higher in acid or bitter - wouldn't mind reducing the volume of seed since they slip through my fruit mesh bag.*

(I will post occasional updates as this progresses (Until end of fermentation)


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## Arne (Jun 18, 2017)

Don't know about the blueberries, but most seeds give a bitter taste. Usually that taste goes away with time, but it is nice not to have to deal with it. Hope that helps, Arne.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 18, 2017)

Yeah it helps -But I was wearing thin getting everything right. Next batch - I get my fine mesh strainer ready before I start. I couldn't remember where I put it when I moved my stuff around last. I think both Strawberry and Blueberry seeds are a challenge because they are so small and so plentiful.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 18, 2017)

OK - And the Yeast has been pitched !

Starting SG 1.095
Starting pH 3.15 (Low but that's blueberries for you - and that's with ZERO additional Acid.

1) 5 lbs of sugar.
2) 16 3/4 lbs Blueberries (15 3/4 lbs of frozen homegrown blueberries & 1 lb fresh from the bushes to the bucket after a quick water rinse)
3) 2 3/4 tsp pectic enzyme (first 1 3/4 tsp put on frozen berries as they thawed
4) ZERO Acid added (Last batch was extremely acid initially during fermentation it dropped to pH 2.86)
5) Zero Tannin (May add that later tonight as I think about it
6) 1/2 tsp Fermaid K
7) 1/2 tsp Yeast Nutrient
8) 3 Campden tablet added yesterday

9 )Yeast is K1V-1116

Current volume with bag of blueberries is 3 3/4 gallons a little higher than I was aiming.
Temperature upstairs was 78 so I moved it into the basement where it's a steady 70 degrees.

Yeast starter - Started it at 2:45 pm - Used 2 oz very warm water 1 oz juice from the batch 1/16 tsp Fermaid K, 1/16 tsp yeast nutrient. Mixed it up then and covered it with a paper coffee filter in 1/2 pint jar. 

* Whoa ! * *3:35 pm 50 mins later the starter is bubbling fiercely and pushing up through the paper filter - Guess it was ready to go. Pitched the yeast then. *


Side note. Got a little surprise as I racked my new 3 gallon batch of Black Current (It's stopped bubbling the airlocks for several days now.) Added the campden tablets and did my ending SG reading. 
Reading was .987 @ 70 degrees (See photo and double check this please)
Checked Hydrometer with distilled water reading was .998 @ 78 degrees - Temp correction for that temp makes the hydrometer reading .999 (Hydrometer is calibrated at 68 degrees f)


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## Scooter68 (Jun 19, 2017)

Fermentation clearly started as of this morning. 

SG Reading as of 4:00PM today was *1.088* - not a big drop from 1.095 but it is movement and it's only been 24 hours.

I'll edit/update this post later with the reading 24 hours after pitching the yeast.  My very first wine batch was a 1 gallon blueberry fermented all the way dry in less than 4 days to 13.4% ABV with Montrachet Yeast.


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## randicoot (Jun 20, 2017)

I've never had a problem with blueberry seeds imparting any bitterness. I think you have to crush the individual seeds for that to happen.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 20, 2017)

Tuesday Update - At 3:00 PM *SG is 1.046 *

Temp in the room is remains at 70 degrees (Fermenting in the basement since upstairs temp is set at 78. (Will not go lower because this home is not currently occupied and we keep the upstairs temp set at 78 degrees. 

Punching down the fruit bag was surprisingly tough today - I suspect a lot of captured gas under it.

If the SG drops under 1.015 tomorrow I may rack to secondary to get it away from all the seeds. There were a lot of smaller blueberries and they typically have just as many seeds as larger berries so even without crushing them, I don't want to let this sit on the seeds too long. I crushed the entire batch with an old conical ricer so the pulp and skins should have had plenty of time to give up their 'essences' by the time it the SG gets down below 1.015


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## Scooter68 (Jun 21, 2017)

Outta time to rack it tonight but it's ready to go to secondary tomorrow for sure. *SG = 1.012*
Last night *SG was at 1.036 with a pH of 2.86.* (That should rise in a few weeks as the citric acid converts)


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## Stressbaby (Jun 22, 2017)

Scooter68 said:


> That should rise in a few weeks as the citric acid converts



OK you got me, what does it convert to?


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## Scooter68 (Jun 22, 2017)

Stressbaby said:


> OK you got me, what does it convert to?




Ok you got me - It "Metabolizes" *

"The most important significance associated with citrate fermentation is the production of diacetyl. The lactic acid bacteria,Oenococcus oeni is used during malolactic fermentation for the deacidification of wine during which the metabolism of diacetyl occurs. The biosynthesis of diacetyl is dependent on the citric acid metabolism. *Citric acid* is first degraded to acetic acid and pyruvic acid. Most of the pyruvic acid is then metabolized to lactic acid with a portion going to diacetyl, acetoin, and 2,3-butanediol. Co-metabolism of citrate-glucose has been shown to enhance the growth rate and biomass yield of the bacterium O. oeni. The increased growth rate and yield will result in increased ATP synthesis. The metabolism of citric acid usually occurs after malic acid in wine during malolactic fermentation, and is not initiated until more than half of the malic acid has been metabolized."

http://wineserver.ucdavis.edu/industry/enology/methods_and_techniques/reagents/citric_acid.html


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## Smok1 (Jun 22, 2017)

Did you add mlf bacteria to get it started or does blueberry wine natuarlly go through mlf?
Just curious because i have a batch of blueberry wine going right now as well


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## Scooter68 (Jun 22, 2017)

Not doing MLF. I understand what you are saying - that the metabolism of citric acid is associated with MLF - the article I posted states that citric acid is only metabolized after most malic acid has gone through the MLF. Not intentionally doing any MLF so the likelihood of citric metabolizing is low to zero if that's the only way it gets metabolized. My bad.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 22, 2017)

Racked to carboy tonight SG was down to .992. Had intended to do the racking yesterday when it dropped to 1.012 but my projects at home had em too tired to do it. Forced myself to get this done tonight. My 3.75 gallons is now down to 3 gallons and 20 oz. Imagine it should be completely done in the next day or two. Plenty of bubbling after racking but not much foam. May just be CO2 gassing off now. Will give it two or three days and re-check SG and pH. Last batch was an 8 lbs per gallon batch and it had very low pH. Hopefully with just a little over 5 lbs of berries per gallon this batch won't have that issue.


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## Ambugaton (Jun 23, 2017)

I have only made blueberry wine on one occasion but I plan on another batch here in a month when they come in... But as far as the seeds go. How do you juice them? I figure as long as you don't break the seeds they don't impart any bitterness. I may be wrong. I just juiced them by hand. 

Also, you probably already know this but they make berry picking rakes where I'm at and it really helps out. I can get about 20lbs in an hour or two (if I'm being focused and efficient). I have about 30 blueberry bushes on my property that I plan on taking advantage of. I will be waiting to see how this turns out.


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## Stressbaby (Jun 23, 2017)

I've made a few batches now and I'm thinking I finally have it down. Keller's recipes have you adding red grape concentrate - DON'T use Welches. Concord grapes in my view ruin any fruit wine they are used in and nowhere is this more evident than with blueberry. Use red grape concentrate intended for winemaking instead - merlot or cab concentrate. Blueberry seeds are tiny and insignificant, I've never had any trouble with blueberry seeds.

Last year I made what looks like a WONDERFUL blueberry rosé. Pressed the blueberries straight away, got about 1.5 gal of straight juice, then used a little Sauv Blanc concentrate to get to a 3 gallon batch. I had to make a little acid adjustment at the end to knock off some rough edges but it made a really nice wine.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 23, 2017)

Stressbaby - I fully agree. Blueberry with pretty much anything else is no longer blueberry wine. The flavor is too delicate. Perhaps some oak chips sometime but that's about all I'll try. 

Did add Old Orchard White Grape juice to backsweeten some Blackberry first time around. Total of about 2 oz in a gallon added a beautiful "bouquet" Other than that sort of addition I'm not a blender of different fruits. Closest I'll come is some black cherry to my tart cherry. Oh and there was that 4 gallon of peach the I added 20 dark sweet cherries to for color. I just enjoy the individual fruit flavors.


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## PandemoniumWines (Jun 23, 2017)

I enjoy your blueberry posts. Mine is sitting very patiently in its carboy growing older and more glorious (hopefully).


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## Ajmassa (Jul 8, 2017)

Hey @Scooter68, we're all going blueberry pickin tomorrow! (The family) A great benefit of living in the "Garden State". I'm thinking about jumping on this recipe with ~6 lbs per gallon. For a 3 gallon batch. 
Aside from nutrients and enzymes and yeast and all the standards, is there anything else recommended for this wine for primary? I haven't made much aside from grape wine, and I understand blueberry needs quite some time to age. 
Also, 17 lbs got you about 2 gal of juice and pulp. Did you just add water to push the volume up to 3.5 gal? 
I'm really looking forward to this. A LHBS has some homemade wines and beers on tap as you shop. I tasted the blueberry and immediately knew I wanted to make it.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 8, 2017)

Yes, water was added. With 17 lbs of all fresh blueberries you may not need as much additional water. My batch needed every bit of the 3.5 gallons because the majority of the fruit was frozen and had lost a little moisture. When I pulled out the pulp in the bag I worked it over very hard to get every bit of juice out of the pulp.

Watch the acidity level. Mine started out very acidic at 2.86 but fermentation fired up just fine using a starter with a little less than 1/8 tsp Fermaid K and 1/8 tsp yeast nutrient in about 3 oz of very warm water, 1 oz of the juice and a full packet of the K1V-1116 yeast. The starter mix was bubbling very well in less than an hour so I went ahead an pitched it. Positive fermentation signs were present within 24 hours. I don't understand all the problems folks have with starting Blueberry fermentation. This was my 3rd batch and they all fired up just fine. The first was with Montrachet.

Yes to aging well. After 1 year it's very drinkable. At 2 years it was almost too sweet. So give it a year at least. I normally don't back-sweeten higher than 1.005 in most of my fruit wines. I do it to taste but afterwards I check the SG and that's how they have turned out.

Good luck on that picking and wine. You might try straining out some of the seeds if possible. Didn't get to do that this time but I want to see if that will stop some of the extreme acidity I keep getting.

Again good luck and keep us posted.

(Sorry had to correct a couple of things the corrections are in this color)


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## Stressbaby (Jul 9, 2017)

@Ajmassa5983,

Last year I made blueberry rosé and this will give you some idea - 19# blueberries frozen, pressed preferment, yielded 1.5 gallons of straight juice. That is more or less the same as grapes.

And to second @Scooter68, every blueberry I've made has started out with pH under 3.00. The rosé started at 2.64 and I adjusted up preferment to 3.29. After ferment and aging a year it was STILL to acidic and required a little more tweaking in order to be drunk dry. If you like your wines a little sweeter you may be able to pull it into balance with some sugar instead.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 9, 2017)

@Scooter68 and @Stressbaby and anyone with insight really 
A couple questions:
1. Why not just use more blueberries so you don't have to dilute with water? The acidity would be overwhelming?
2. Did you add KBicarb prefermentation? Seems like a good move. What are the pros and cons to adjusting blueberry juice before primary? Why not always do this for blueberry ?
3. I never thought to drink dry. Kinda thought blueberry wine was SUPPOSED to be sweetened some. Seems like it would taste like a punch in the face otherwise. I prefer my grape wine dry, but fruit wine (in my minimal fruit wine experience) never tastes good dry. Just your preference Stressbaby? 
4. Why press early for a Rosè? Probably looks amazing in a clear bottle but wouldn't it be lacking? I guess if you like it dry then the Rosè would be an easier drinker.


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## Stressbaby (Jul 9, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> @Scooter68 and @Stressbaby and anyone with insight really
> A couple questions:
> 1. Why not just use more blueberries so you don't have to dilute with water? The acidity would be overwhelming?
> 2. Did you add KBicarb prefermentation? Seems like a good move. What are the pros and cons to adjusting blueberry juice before primary? Why not always do this for blueberry ?
> ...



1. Blueberry is sort of notorious for getting stuck. I've used up to 6#/gallon without a problem, but my reading indicates that more fruit and you run into fermentation issues.
2. Calcium bicarb preferment to raise pH to 3.29 (in this particular case), then a touch of potassium bicarb to tweak it at the end. Next time I'll raise it probaby to 3.4.
3. This was a blueberry rosé, not regular blueberry. We like rosé on the dry side. I sweeten my regular blueberry wine.
4. Leaving it on the skins longer extracts more color. That's just the way I did it, I don't know.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 9, 2017)

Thanks for the reply. We pushed the picking to next weekend since I'm not prepared to start a batch today anyway. Have been prepping for bottling my 1st DB batch today. My labels from noontime should be delivered tomorrow! . --but actually more like procrastinating while watching baseball and posting on here with minimal work getting done. So far a very enjoyable Sunday. (Empty house with the women at a pool party today). Time to GSD.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 9, 2017)

1) I did an 8 lbs/gallon batch and it was a bugger to get the pH right. Flavor wasn't that much better than with just under 5 lbs/gallon.

2) I haven't used anything to raise pH (Lower Acidity from say 3.18 to 3.4) before fermentation because I've found it to vary during the fermentation typically rising or falling a bit during the fermentation. I hate playing the game of Lower the pH - Raise the pH - Once was enough. Since my experiences with the blueberry has been that the pH moderates itself somewhat at lower lbs/gallon, so I'll continue that. All my other wine batches have not had the ultra low pH issue.

3) I always back-sweeten unless the ferment stops on it's own in a 'sweet state' My Black Current batch was the first to do that to me. A couple of others didn't go all the way to .990 but to me, anything at or below 1.000 is finished enough. I sweeten to taste and generally find afterwards that I'm hitting about 1.005 most times without shooting for that as a target.

4) Rose - not my thing. 

Interesting though, my blueberry wines are all measurably darker than my Blackberry wines. My darkest wines have been Black Current (Clear but dark dark) and Black Raspberry dark purple. My first wine to have very strong legs was the Black Raspberry. I don't worry about my wine having legs but Wow - My Black Raspberry was crazy and with just over 4lbs/gal. It would stain wine glasses (Until washed) it clung to the carboys like it was a syrup but it certainly wasn't a syrup. Taste of the Black Raspberry was the most pronounced of any of my wines to date. (Of course I've only made about 20 batches so far)


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## Ajmassa (Jul 9, 2017)

@Scooter68 sounds like 5-6 lbs per gal is the sweetspot then. Noted. 
I agree about messing with the ph as well. Made sense for stressbaby since the Rosè ph was so low. But the more you mess around the more that can go wrong. 
Everything you mention makes sense. I'm looking forward to enjoying this batch hopefully next summer.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 10, 2017)

Well just came in from my blueberry patch. 5 pounds today from 3 bushes. Two patches with total of 31 bushes BUT in one there are 16 plants and only 3 old - large enough to produce significantly. That patch is 90% done for the season. The other patch has 15 plants and about 9 of them are producers but this year a couple did poorly and one lost 4 big branches that shocked the plant and cut output by about 60%. 
So it's been a good season, not great. Might see a total of 5 pounds more from ALL the bushes.

So we have about 10-12 pounds in the freezer, I've given away about 5-6 pounds and have 3 gallons of blueberry wine aging made with mostly last years frozen berries. 

Not a bad year. Still need to go to the fruit stand and see if i can get hands on enough peaches and/or plums for a couple more batches before the end of the summer. And maybe the wife will let me have about 5 pounds of Wild Blackberries for 1 gallon batch.


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## Redbird1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Scooter68 said:


> 1)
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> Interesting though, my blueberry wines are all measurably darker than my Blackberry wines. My darkest wines have been Black Current (Clear but dark dark) and Black Raspberry dark purple. My first wine to have very strong legs was the Black Raspberry. I don't worry about my wine having legs but Wow - My Black Raspberry was crazy and with just over 4lbs/gal. It would stain wine glasses (Until washed) it clung to the carboys like it was a syrup but it certainly wasn't a syrup. Taste of the Black Raspberry was the most pronounced of any of my wines to date. (Of course I've only made about 20 batches so far)



I LOVE black raspberries, but have a hard time getting my hands on enough to make a large batch. Can you share your recipe in case I can find some at a reasonable price soon?


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## Scooter68 (Jul 11, 2017)

I'd use the same recipe as for blackberries EXCEPT for quantity. The wild berries we used* provided tons of flavor with just a bit over 4 pounds for a 1 gallon batch. That's all I have made so far but it was so impressive in the making AND the taste. Hoping the wife (Our family's wild berry picker) will let me have enough for another 2 gallon batch. Also hope to prevail on her for blackberries too.

Today though is peach day. Sliced up 23 lbs of fresh peaches and getting ready to run them through a stainless steel conical (And Manual) ricer. Should be 'fun' but the end result in one year. Fascinating AND intoxicating.

* If you use store bought berries check them for intensity. If they are like lots of store bought Blackberries they are big but more water contents than the wild berries so the flavor is less intense. In that case (Store bought) you probably would need between 5-6 lbs per gallon.


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## Redbird1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Scooter68 said:


> I'd use the same recipe as for blackberries EXCEPT for quantity. The wild berries we used* provided tons of flavor with just a bit over 4 pounds for a 1 gallon batch. That's all I have made so far but it was so impressive in the making AND the taste. Hoping the wife (Our family's wild berry picker) will let me have enough for another 2 gallon batch. Also hope to prevail on her for blackberries too.
> 
> Today though is peach day. Sliced up 23 lbs of fresh peaches and getting ready to run them through a stainless steel conical (And Manual) ricer. Should be 'fun' but the end result in one year. Fascinating AND intoxicating.
> 
> * If you use store bought berries check them for intensity. If they are like lots of store bought Blackberries they are big but more water contents than the wild berries so the flavor is less intense. In that case (Store bought) you probably would need between 5-6 lbs per gallon.


Thanks!

I wish I had a reliable place for wild berries. We've found them when we've gone camping before, but usually they are spread out quite a bit and it is tricky to time it so that the berries are mostly ripe. My son and I picked a couple pounds of red raspberries last weekend, but since the plants were spread out and only about 1/4 to 1/3 were ripe on most plants, it took quite a while.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 11, 2017)

Understand that. We have 17+ acres and some years we hardly have any Black Raspberries. The key thing (My untested guess) if the berries are large, then the flavor is not likely to be as strong as a smaller wild berry that perhaps was a bit short on water and therefore produced smaller berries. But sometimes you just have to compromise. I've never looked for or really noticed black raspberries in stores or roadside stands.


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