# First time making wine from grapes help needed :(



## Mistabiggz101 (Mar 27, 2015)

Hello, first and foremost I want to say hello to all on the forum! I'm mistabiggz and I have started a new frontier, wine making.

I am not trying to be an expert or have an elaborate set up, I am simply trying to create my own wine as I find it exciting and I love wine! Being able to make a batch that I can call my own would be justifying.



With that being said I have started my first batch I am about 31 hours into my primary fermentation but, I made a big mistake and am afraid I might have ruined it! 

So this is what happened yesterday I bought black table grapes from the grocery store. Crushed them and got about 1 litre of juice. Filled a gallon Carboy with a little under 3 litres of water and added the skins, a pound of sugar, and the yeast ( rehydrated as per packet instructions).

Woke up in the morning checked the jug and delightfully it smelt great I could already smell that beautiful wine aroma. Everything was bubbling and good. Then I tried to push the must down and realized something... Once the primary fertilization was complete I need to siphon the wine and press the must, without stirring up the lee or lie ( not sure terminology). This would be impossible because the only way to extract the skins would be to shake it out the neck of the jug which would mix the two. 

Evidentially I decided it was best to move the mixture from the jug to a pail with a lid. Since there wasn't any lee or lie lol.. Sorry, visible to contaminate the wine at this point. Fine.. Cool so once I carefully pour it into a sanitized pail I realize that it was a two gallon pail and now only half full. 

This is where I screw up, not thinking clearly and trying to move fast as I am not happy with disturbing the process. I fill the remaing void with water and two cups of sugar so that there is less oxygen in the pail. ( trying to avoid vinager and other nasties) Later on, while I was thinking about my alterations I got concerned that I may have diluted the solution way to much! Doing research I found that a ratio of 1:3 juice to water was minimum and adding to much water could ruin the batch. 

I panicked and went off to the store and bought 20 dollars worth of grapes. Poured out a quarter of the pail and filled it with the freshly squeezed grape juice and added the new skins. Have I just ruined it by interviening? Was it better to leave it with the water added only, or is it better I added more juice? 

The mixture is still fermenting I can here it bubbling which I guess is a good thing, what do you think? 

Lastly, I would like to state that I am no expert obviously! This is my first attempt. I am not at the position to buy all the equipment that would be optimal. Even the extra grapes I just bought hurt my wallet. I figured if it has been produced for thousands of years then the materials I have around the house should be suffice. I obviously know my wine, in this light and lack of experience will be nothing compared to most. It is a starting point and a victory for me if it is paletteable and safe. Just got to get better with time right? 

Although, I did buy an airlock and ec-1118 champagne yeast. I didn't buy campden tablets as I got excited and started without fully researching which I admit was stupid. I did though wash my hands well and boiled all boilable components and threw the rest in the dish washer. To help make things sanitary. I am going to buy campden tablets and add it to the mix either at the beginning of secondary fermentation or during the bottling stage. Depending on which is better, hopefully the wine won't soil. I read some where that added campden tablets during primary fermentation will slow production. So I thought I might be okay for waiting. Although, I am now worried also about the possible contamination when adding the second amount of grapes. 

Being that I did the changes this early in the fermentation do you think I should be okay? Do you think it is still diluted I would say there has to be at least a quarter of squeezed grape juice in the pail. 
Sorry for all the questions just stressing and cannot sleep. The wife's gonna kill me if I wasted over 30 dollars in grapes and I have nothing to show for it.

Ps. I don't have a hydrometer so I dont have any measurements I ordered a hydrometer from eBay and it arrived last week shattered! Which I have not got my money back for. So I just took a chance. I made wine from welches grape concentrate and it turned out great for what it was. So I thought I might get lucky with this although I am aware this is more difficult. Sorry I don't have the specific gravity.


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## DoctorCAD (Mar 27, 2015)

Number 1. Table grapes make poor wine.

Number 2. What you have will turn into wine, no matter what you've done to this point, it will all ferment. Fooling with the must at first won't really hurt anything. After a week (and a SG of 1.010) transfer the liquid to a glass jug and press the grapes. Add that to the rest of the wine (yes, it is wine at that point) and airlock it. Leave it alone.

Number 3. Get a hydrometer replacement and campden tablets ASAP. They are vital for winemakers.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 27, 2015)

Welcome to WMT!

I agree with Dr.CAD's comments. That is to say, you are both okay and not okay. I am confident that you will wind up with non-ruined wine, but it will not be very pleasing. There is simply too much dilution, and table grapes are called "table grapes" and not "wine grapes" for a reason. Really, you should not add _any_ water to grape juice to make wine.

Ideally, you will be able to drink the stuff you made, and learn your lesson for the next go-round. I further note that low-end kits, which make 6 gallons of wine, are available for about twice what you paid for table grapes.


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## Bergmann (Mar 27, 2015)

First let me welcome you to the site, 

I feel that was the best step toward becoming a competent wine maker thus far. now that you are a member Stop by and read some of the material, there is a lit that you can learn here that will make you a better wine maker. once you accumulate your equipment you will find there are wines that can be made with a minimum of expense. 

As others have stated your first attempt will most likely come out okay, but be of low quality. so you now have your feet in the water. spend some tine and the experience will only get better.


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## jsiddall (Mar 27, 2015)

To answer a question you didn't ask: headspace in the primary bucket is not a problem because the fermentation itself generates a protective layer of CO2 on top of the wine to prevent oxidation.

After fermentation slows/stops you need to transfer the wine to a container with minimal headspace and an airlock to prevent oxidization.

What you have will likely be perfectly safe to drink, but you will have to decide whether you want to!


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## NorCal (Mar 27, 2015)

The good thing is yes, you are on your way to making an alcoholic beverage that you can safely consume. Time will only tell if it is something you want to drink. Let the bucket finish fermenting. Get a cheese cloth to separate the juice from the must. Put the juice in your glass container with little head space, add the correct amount of SO2 (Camden tablets), put an airlock on it and just leave it alone in a cool dark place. After a month or so, rack it into another glass container, top off, check the SG with your replacement hydrometer and if less than 0, put a cap on the bottle and put it back in that cool dark place. Come back in another 3 or 4 months and give it a taste and add Camden once more. If you decide it is something worth keeping, bottle it and let it sit some more.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 27, 2015)

NorCal said:


> check the SG with your replacement hydrometer and if less than 0, put a cap on the bottle and put it back in that cool dark place.



Just for complete clarity, NorCal meant "if less than 1.000." I agree with his advice overall.

(If your SG is less than 0, you should go right to Stockholm and pick up your Nobel Prize!  )


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## richmke (Mar 27, 2015)

Mistabiggz101 said:


> Then I tried to push the must down and realized something... Once the primary fertilization was complete I need to siphon the wine and press the must, without stirring up the lee or lie ( not sure terminology). This would be impossible because the only way to extract the skins would be to shake it out the neck of the jug which would mix the two.



While in your first racking, you are trying to get off the lees, it is not critical. In fact, some kits have you transferring lees and all from the pail to the carboy. The point there is to get it under an airlock after the bulk of the fermentation is done. An extra week on the less is not a problem. The 180 days extended kit instructions have you staying on the lees for the first month.


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## NorCal (Mar 27, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> Just for complete clarity, NorCal meant "if less than 1.000." I agree with his advice overall.
> 
> (If your SG is less than 0, you should go right to Stockholm and pick up your Nobel Prize!  )



Thanks Sour, my hydrometers all read in Brix, forgot to translate.


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## Mistabiggz101 (Mar 27, 2015)

Thank you all for the welcoming responses! I am truly great full. I will take all advice given. 

Knowing my wine is going to turn out very bad maybe undrinkable is a little upsetting. That's what I get I guess for getting a head of myself.

I got a couple of questions first why is table grapes considered unacceptable for wine production? 

Secondly, I have a spot where I go fishing that natural grapes grow in the trees by the thousands. They are purpleish black, and the juice runs dark red. They have a weird consistencey for grapes as of squeezed instead of splitting they're skins almost slide off and they feel slimy. They taste amazing even the skins are sweet/sour with little tartness to them. I once collect a full shopping bag of them took quite a while along the shore line pulling bunches off trees trying to avoid giant dock spiders in between the branches. 

I tried to make wine with it crushed all the grapes it filled a 1.5 Ltr bottle. Added yeast and left in the cold cellar. For a month moved it to a 750 ml bottle when I took out all the skins and left it for the winter sealed with a lid. 

In the spring I had a buddy over and we happened to come across it at that time I had totally forgot about my little experiment the previous fall. We opened it and it smelt amazing! I remember it smelling like wine my old Italian neighbour used to make as a kid and I would smell coming from his shed. I was going to try it really wanted to but didn't this was before I had done any research about wine making. I was afraid it might be poisoned or give me and my friend alcohol poison so I poured it out. I looked like royal purple syrup. But smelt mouth watering. Still kicking myself for not trying it do you think I could go back there and collect those grapes? Would they be good grapes to use as they are wild?


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## DoctorCAD (Mar 27, 2015)

Table grapes are specifically grown to "taste" good as they come off the vine. Wine grapes are specifically grown to taste good after fermentation. I guarrantee that if you ever tasted a real wine grape, you wouldnt eat too many of them. They are very strong and acidic and filled with tannins (in general terms).

Depending on where you live, wild grapes could produce good wine.

Oh, and no one said your experimental wine would be very bad or undrinkable, it just won't be a $300 bottle of fine French burgandy! Keep it going, you might simply need to mix it with some other juice or maybe get away with simply adding sugar to it to mke it good enough.


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## Mistabiggz101 (Mar 27, 2015)

Oh makes sense in the wine grapes. 

As for the $300 bottle of French burgundy I never expected to achieve such perfection as long as my wine is comparable to those 10-15 dollar bottles you get at the liquor store I will be content. 

It is hard for me to add the right amount of sugar because I lack the scientific equipment. Which I will procure once I can afford too. Even though they aren't greatly expensive bills come first and as a young adult building my life. My bills and credit comes before my hobbies unfortunately. 

Stupid monetarial society!


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## jsiddall (Mar 27, 2015)

Understood about the financial priorities, but if you were to save for one piece of equipment I would recommend a hydrometer. You should be able to find something between $5 and $10 an it really will help you know what is going on in your bucket.

Also, just to help set your expectations, a $10-$15 equivalent bottle in the store is actually a significant challenge for a home wine maker. Top kits and well made wine from grapes which are aged for a long time (i.e.: years) may exceed that but I expect most results are inferior.


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## Mistabiggz101 (Mar 27, 2015)

Oh okay thanks I will make an effort to get a hydrometer asap. 

Well that's not good I wanted at least the quality of a cheap red wine lol. So your saying my wine will be? 
Guess I have to wait and find out I wish I wasn't so impatient.


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## NorCal (Mar 27, 2015)

Believe me, making wine is the ultimate life lesson on having patience.


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## Norton (Mar 27, 2015)

If I have wine that doesn't taste so great I save it to use in cooking


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## richmke (Mar 27, 2015)

Norton said:


> If I have wine that doesn't taste so great I save it to use in cooking



If you won't drink it, don't cook with it.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 27, 2015)

By the way, just for grins, I tried to estimate what your final alcohol content will be (ABV, or alcohol by volume). I took everything you wrote in your initial post at face value, and made a reasonable estimate of the sugar content of your grapes. By my lights, you will have a final ABV of about 9%. This is fine, if a bit on the light side. (Most commercial wines are 11%-14%.)

You may find this tool convenient for such calculations: FermCalc calculator.


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## Mistabiggz101 (Mar 29, 2015)

Lol use approx. 8 bottles for cooking wine.. I could have children and see they're children before then haha..


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## Mistabiggz101 (Mar 29, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> By the way, just for grins, I tried to estimate what your final alcohol content will be (ABV, or alcohol by volume). I took everything you wrote in your initial post at face value, and made a reasonable estimate of the sugar content of your grapes. By my lights, you will have a final ABV of about 9%. This is fine, if a bit on the light side. (Most commercial wines are 11%-14%.)
> 
> You may find this tool convenient for such calculations: FermCalc calculator.



I used 6 cups of sugar four cups to start and then about two more cups when I added the water. I don't know if I mentioned the exact amounting my posts.

It smells good! But it is not dark enough which concerns me it's more like a pinkish purple.


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