# Tancor vs Tancor Grand Cru



## BobF (Nov 30, 2012)

How do they differ in use and effect?

When would I use one instead of the other?


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## winemaker_3352 (Nov 30, 2012)

From what i have read.

Tan'cor is added during aging to improve structure and protect against oxidation as well as contibuting to the polymerization of the wine.

Tan'cor Grand Cru ad prior to barrel aging and it enhances a softer mid palate it provides tannin structure w/o the harshness or forward oak finish.

I used the Tan'cor Grand Cru after fermentation was complete - then Tan'cor while I am bulk aging with oak.


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## ibglowin (Nov 30, 2012)

Really hard to tell the difference even for me. They both seem to do the same thing. I am sure they are different formulations.


*TAN’COR ® combines the properties of ellagic and proanthocyanidic tannins specially prepared for the treatment of red wines after the fermentation phase or during maturation, and is used for:

• Enhancement and modification of the structure of the wine and preparing it for maturation.
• Protection of the wine with regards to oxidation phenomena.
• Regulation of oxidation-reduction phenomena.*

vs.........


*After the fermentation phase or during maturation, TAN’COR GRAND CRU® is used to:
• Enhance and modify the wine’s structure and palate length.
• Stabilise colour by combining the remaining free anthocyanins.
• Regulating oxidation-reduction phenomena.*


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## BobF (Nov 30, 2012)

Thanks guys. I had read the descriptions. The closeness is what prompted the question.

Grand Cru makes more specific claims regarding mid palate and palate length.

Not much difference, Mike?

I picked up Tan'Cor on impulse while at a NLHBS picking up lab supplies. I'm wondering if it might improve 10L kit or juice pail wines. I know, bench trials 

Would I even want to consider this in a high end kit? 

Mike - I read where you used the Grand Gru in RMC. Have you done the same kit with and without?


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## ibglowin (Nov 30, 2012)

I use TGC in all kit reds. I had been making kit wines for about a year when I decided the wines were lacking something (like a decent finish) even the RMC. It was very good but the finish just wasn't very long. I did a bench trial with a bottle and let it sit for a few weeks (just opened the bottle, poured in the TGC and recorked with a new cork) I couldn't believe how the wine had changed in just that short amount of time. It was like a light bulb went off. 

I went back and opened several kits added it in and recorked and from then on every kit got it added in the bulk age stage. My last kit I started a few weeks ago I decided to try some Tannin FT Rouge. This is a different formulation and is usually added pre-fermentation. I wanted to see if there was a difference between the two and which one I prefer.


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## BobF (Nov 30, 2012)

Thanks Mike - That's the kind of input I'm looking for!

To start I think I'll see what happens with a 10L kit. I'll split to two 3's, one with one without and go from there.


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## Deezil (Nov 30, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> My last kit I started a few weeks ago I decided to try some Tannin FT Rouge. This is a different formulation and is usually added pre-fermentation. I wanted to see if there was a difference between the two and which one I prefer.



This is the line i've been working with lately.. I used FT Blanc Soft (white wine version of FT Rouge; they offer a FT Rouge Soft as well as a FT Blanc) on my peach wine this year, and the differences between that, and my first peach wine (with no tannins of any kind added) are noticeable already

Havent been able to get my hands on Tancor products yet, but so far I'm happy with the FT lines


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 1, 2012)

I've been using Tannin Riche, it is marketed as giving French oak character and perception of sweetness, and I have to admit, it really adds a nice finish to the wine(s) that I have added it to, almost mellows it out, gives a better mouth feel, I'm extremely pleased with this product.
I'd be interested in trying Tan'cor Grand Cru, where do you guys buy yours?


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 2, 2012)

Pumpkinman said:


> I'd be interested in trying Tan'cor Grand Cru, where do you guys buy yours?



The only place I've seen it is FineVineWines.


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## winemaker_3352 (Dec 2, 2012)

There is a place in st. louis that carries it - St. Louis Wine and Beer Making.

Brew and Wine Supply might carry it...


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## Bartman (Dec 24, 2012)

Mike,
Since you've already looked into the formulation of Tan'Cor, do you know how it compares to FVW's generic wine tannin? It's made from Chestnut extract and about 75% lower price than Tan'cor, so I assume it is different, hopefully not worse.  I picked some up when I was in the store last week because I didn't see any of the Tan'cor, but I didn't look too hard.


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## ibglowin (Dec 24, 2012)

Tancor is a mixture of sorts IIRC grape tannin, oak tannins. I have no experience with the generic tannin. Make sure you do a bench trial on a glass or a bottle to see how you like the effect before you add to an entire carboy.

Just saw this blurb on George's website on the difference between the two:

*Due to a unique extraction process, Tan'Cor Grand Cru further enhances softer middle palate when compared to Tan'Cor. It can also enhance varietal fruit character that may have been masked and add complexity to the finish.*


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## Geronimo (Apr 4, 2013)

What kind of dosage are you using? I'm reading (from the TGC product data sheet) 5 to 30 g/hL which translates roughly from 1 to 7 grams per 6 gallon kit. 

Sound right?


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## ibglowin (Apr 4, 2013)

Yep, For a big red I have been using something right in the middle of those ranges. Always do a bench trial beforehand with a split bottle or something just to make sure its in your own personal range. I am now starting to open stuff that it was added to carboy at the begining of bulk aging and has been bottled and resting for 2 years now. Simply no comparison IMHO.


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## Boatboy24 (Apr 4, 2013)

3-6 grams is what I've gone with so far. I usually start with 3 or 4 and let it sit a month. Taste test and add another 2-3 if you think it needs more. Makes a huge difference! I'm definitely a believer.


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## Geronimo (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks!

Now.... for 1 bottle the middle of that range would be 0.1 grams. How do you measure something that small accurately?


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## BobF (Apr 4, 2013)

I do it with one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TZ92TK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

An amazing little scale and you can't beat the price.


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## ibglowin (Apr 4, 2013)

Easy peasy with a cheap 2 decimal gram scale!


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