# rrawhide's Vineyard



## rrawhide (May 26, 2008)

Hi Appleman

Went to Lowes and bought a 5 gal Flame Seedless and 1 gallon also a 5 gal Thompson Seedless and a 1 gallon. These are for momma. The 1 gallon size is a 2 year old and the 5 gallon size is almost 5 feet tall. (don't know how old) They are already planted on a driveway fence so hope they will be okay there. I also stopped to see my friend Paul from Deparo Vineyards (6 miles away) and he said that I could take all the cuttings I wanted from the syrah and merlot grapes. Question - how long to cuttings take before you plant in ground? Can you go directly or should you make kinda a mini-hothouse for awhile? Can they be planted this year or should I wait until fall to start the cuttings? It looks like I may be able to have 2 rows about 65 feet long and maybe have 8-9 vines per row. I guess that I will use the syrah and merlot since they will be free. He also gave me his left over wire to use. Score!!! Now, I just have to get it ready and do some 'critter' control ie: rabbits, ground squirrels and gophers. Anyway, thanx for your help.

I'll try to get some pictures going too!

rrawhide


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## grapeman (May 27, 2008)

I am glad you got some table grapes started. Now you can plant some wine grapes with a clear conscience!


Before you decide to take cuttings, talk to you friend. Ask him what rootstock his vines are on. As far as I know MOST vines are grown on rootstock material - not bareroot. If you make cuttings and plant them, that gives you bareroot vines. The problem with vinifera grapes anywhare is they have no resistance to grape phyloxxera - an insect pest responsible for wiping out the grape industry in Bordeaux France in the 1800s and devastating the California grape industry a few decades ago. Unless you are in a truly phyloxxera free zone, I wouldn't waste years of time and a lot of money on free cuttings. Thank him for offering, but unless his are bareroot, shy away from the deal. It would be a lot cheaper to buy 15 vines at under 10 dollars each than to waste years of time only to have the vines die in about 3-4 years- and then you would need to start again. Maybe if your friend has access to a nursery he could get you some this year on resistant rootstock or next year.


Let me know what he says and if he is phyloxxera free(you should be also in that case) and I can help you out rooting some. I wish you good luck and great wine!


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## NorthernWinos (May 27, 2008)

Looking forward to following yet another budding vineyard....

Good luck on your ventures.


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

Hi all - yup - got the bug!!!! - just a little guy with lots and lots of legs. 

well, I started getting things going today - - - - not too much room but
I can get 2 rows about 65' long. This is an area between the driveway
and the house - just kinda leveled it off and scraped the dry weeds
away. It has a slight slope towards the south and has full all day
sun. Lets try some pictures:









starting

why do I not have permission to continue - - - well will post an come back and see what happens.

later

rrawhide


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## Wade E (May 27, 2008)

I get that error sometimes to rrawhide. Looks good buddy!


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

try try again


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

and again


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

and again - - -


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

again - - -


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

again - - -


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

the prior picture was the 2 vines of thompson seedless and 2 vines of flame seedless for momma!!


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

Joan - this is the way that it looks now - - -


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

this is where momma (Ruth Ann) and I enjoy a glass of wine - once in awhile.!! Made the fountain and it sure has a great water sound - sure enjoy it!!!


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## rrawhide (May 27, 2008)

this is what we have going now - 11 batches - what's the matter with me?


question - when I went and bottled at the commercial winery a couple of weeks ago - something just hit me - they did not sanitize their bottles - just new glass right out of the case and bottles - is this ok or what?

hope you enjoyed our little vineyard - just wish we had some grape vines?

gotta work on this - 

posts next - 3 per row

2 rows --

wire and irrigation and weed control - - -

maybe even some grapes this year --

we are trying - - - -

help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Joanie (May 28, 2008)

You are soooo hooked, Rrawhide!!





Congratulations!

I'm sure there is a 12 step program somewhere for those of us who have fallen!


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## OilnH2O (May 31, 2008)

I'm a little slow in the "congrats" department, but it's great to see you on Step 1 of that 12 step program Joan talks about! Good for you!


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## rrawhide (Jun 2, 2008)

Hi all

just curious about how many vines of each variety should one plant? How much yield should one expect per vine - I know approximately 50# makes a 6 gallon batch - I have room for about 30 red wine vines and have been thinking about the Italian and Scilian varieties. I do have access to syrah, metlot, ruby cabernet and zin here locally so thought I might try something different. Any comments would be appreciated.

thanx

rrawhide


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## grapeman (Jun 2, 2008)

rrawhide it depends on the variety, spacing and thiining(which depends on ripening ability dependant on locale) as to how much yield to expect. As a general rule of thumb figure on between 2 and four quarts juice per vine. Since you have a good warm climate, your vines will ripen more fruit than in a cold climate. It is always a juggling act between yield and quality of juice. Since I am in the north, varieties I choose would be different than varieties for you out there.


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## rrawhide (Jun 11, 2008)

Appleman - - - 

Well - have the end posts in and ready to dig holes!!!! Am thinking of using the 3 point post hole digger with a 9" auger. Probably can get down 2-3 feet. Then I thought I would add some nursery potting mix into the hole and mix with some of the regular dirt and then plant the vines in this mix. Is this a good way to do the holes or should I top dress the whole row and rototill into the soil? Only wanted to do the 'hole' thing to keep from making the weeds happy!!! I also only have room for 25 vines and so I think that the mix will be as follows: We kinda match the Southern Italy area climate - hot days and very dry with some fairly cool nights and we are at 1000 feet elevation. Anyway, 7 nebbiolo; 6 sangiovese;10 barbera and 2 merlot (for blending and softening tannins). I am using treated poles at the ends with notched steel line poles every 3 vines. The notched steel poles seem really great cause you can adjust your wire as necessary, if necessary. anyway, hopefully I am on the right track - - 

now to find the vines - - - - - - - 

also, a new guy I just met has some Alicante vines and he said I can have some cuttings later this year, if I want. He said that the Alicante is the only grape that the juice is naturally red when crushed and does not have to get color from the skins. Interesting - guess I am going to have to find some more vine roommmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Ruth Ann thinks that I am getting more 'corky' every day!!! maybe she is right but it is fun!!!!

rrawhide


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## grapeman (Jun 11, 2008)

Others out there near you use the post hole augers and mix the soil. I personally don't think it is necessary if you can provide water. If you mix potting soil in regular well drained soil, the vines prefer to keep theri roots in the better mix instead of spreading out good. You can't get much sandier or drier than my soil and the vines do well. You just need to give them water and a touch of fertilizer(easy now). That way the roots spread out more and make the plant hardier when it gets dry. 


Watch the Nebbiolo. I have heard it can get overly vigorous. You better watch out or you will end up like me!


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## rrawhide (Jun 11, 2008)

appleman

whoops - i'm gettin' like you - - - - - and that's good - - - ??????

Contacted a grapevine wholesaler in our area (a referral from a friend at LaBellewinery.com). He only sold 28 million vines last year and ships worldwide. He called and since (it is from a friend) he will sell me (100 total quantity) 25 nebbilo; 25 sangiovese and 50 barbera in pots and ready to plant on freedom rootstock for $3 each. hummmm!!! the other on-line people were $7-8 each plus freight and bareroot. let's see 30 time 8 equal $240. Get 100 for $300 on rootstock - potted - 1 year old - growing good -------- not much of a decision to make. Now, just gotta figure what to do with them - Think I need to do some rethinkin'.

Let you know more later - - - -

thanx for the comeback - 

gotta go to town just broke my post hole digger - a weld snapped!!!

later

rrawhide


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## grapeman (Jun 11, 2008)

rrawhide said:


> appleman
> 
> whoops - i'm gettin' like you - - - - - and that's good - - - ??????
> 
> rrawhide




Did I say that was a GOOD thing? I just said you were starting to get like me............







I am glad you got connected with the right people there. I always hate to see folks getting quite a few vines but not enough to get a good rate. Some varieties like Concord on their own roots sell for a buck apiece and if you only buy a few about 7 or 8 dollars. You could still plant what you want out of the 100 and still be ahead of the game. Like that will happen. The wife will certainly think you have gone over the edge when you tell her you are getting 100 vines! Good luck with that.... and the vines.


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## rrawhide (Jun 11, 2008)

she didn't say a word!!!

wonder what that means - - - - 

not too concerned about the quantity of vines cause I can use or not use 
BUT what about 2-3-4 years down the road and beyond - - - - 

when the production is up -- - - -

sure wish you'll were around closer - - - - 

oh well ---- 

rrawhide
'corky'


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## Wade E (Jun 11, 2008)

Wow Rrawhide, youre really buying a



load! Thats awesome and what you are buying is exactly what I would want if I had the land and if it would grow here also.</font>


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## rrawhide (Jun 11, 2008)

well WADE com' on down and pick up a few!!!! they be waiting 4 ya!!!

sure wish you would - be fun - - - 

I might just put some down in the field below - plenty of room and water there. BUT, I lease out that 20 acres for cattle grazing. Would have to build a awsome fence - barb wire plus electric. Maybe I'll run a 440 line if I decide to plant there. I think that 440 would make walking hamburger if the cows hit it. hummmmmmmm!!!

well, i'll get 'er figured out soon -

hope all is well with you.

later

rrawhide


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## rrawhide (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi all - again

Well, VBS (Vacation Bible School) this week so have not had too much of a chance to do vineyard stuff but this is where we are now:






end posts are in and so are the line posts




wire on and tightened




cool 'thingy' that wraps the irrigation line around the lower wire




irrigation lines in, am using notched line posts to keep wire level,
holes have been watered every day so they will be nice and moist 
for grape vines. Am going to be using 2 more wires at least - The drip line
is at 20" - next will be at 40" and the top at 65". 

This area can handle 25 vines with room to expand to 40. The other
vines will go to friends and brother-in-law. Hopefully, I can get 
additional vines when I need them OR better yet start some cuttings 
later this winter.

At this point there will be 20 barbera; 10 sangiovese and 10 nebbiolo and this should be fun!!! Hopefully, there will be 1 gallon from each plant in a couple of years - - -

There are 3 local wineries and they are all wanting me to put in an acre at least. They all think that this area will have a lot of botique wineries before long. Don't think I want another job but might just be fun!! Hey, Appleman, I think that it is starting - - - - - 

Only one thing left to say - - hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!

later

rrawhide
'corky'


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## Wade E (Jun 19, 2008)

Go big now if you have the time and the money to do so as you will be sorry you didnt later most likely. Looks awesome there buddy and Im jealous!


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## bilbo-in-maine (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi 'Corky', I just noticed your photos and want to add congratulations on the big step you took! Looks like you are in CA so I assume you have found a supplier who provides vinifera varieties on phyloxera resistant rootstocks. You'll also need to study up on how to prevent the typical fungal diseases, chiefly powdery mildew (maybe you are already up on these things.) Also, trim away the trees or vegetation that are shading the left hand row you show in the photos, unless it's early morning shade that disappears. Your vines will want all the sun they can get - Appleman mentioned this in another thread here today. Good luck - I can tell you are already excited and enjoying it!
Bill


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## Waldo (Jun 19, 2008)

You Da man!! rrawhide............looking might fine there buddy


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## grapeman (Jun 19, 2008)

Yep, it's beginning there. You have caught the fever good. Forget ever having any spare time again- this will consume it all.......



















You are lucky in being in Ca. Not as much disease pressure there as here in the east. We are having a real run of moist rainy weather these last couple weeks. We are over 5 inches of rain now for the first part of the month.


It took me a while to catch your post today. I was at the other vineyard today training and pulling shoots. When I got home I went out and finally planted the rest of the cuttings for this year in the nursery. I ended up with about 1500 of them. Most of them have now rooted and they are pushing top growth now. I tend them in the nursery this eyar and then move out in the vineyard the following year.


Keep up the good work and before you know it you will be swimming in wine- or at least stomping them!


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## Joanie (Jun 19, 2008)

Looks great. Rrawhide!

Is that the way they irrigate in CA? At 20", 40" and 65"? Why wouldn't you put it right on the ground where the roots can get to it?


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## rrawhide (Jun 19, 2008)

hey bilbo

The independant distributor I am getting these vines is a local fella and they only sold 28 million vines last year worldwide. The particular vines are from a grower in Wasco, Ca (about 50 miles away) and are all on Freedom rootstock. They are 1 year old plus and are growing nicely. They will be delivered on Monday evening. I am sure these are from www.vintagenurseries.com (largest wine vine nursery in the nation, they say). Wish I had room for the full 100 that I ordered but not at this time. By the way, the vines are running due south.

Joan, this is the way that they do it out here - everybody has evelated driplines with 1 gph emitters. There is 1 emitter at each vine and 1 in between. Probably run them for 5 hours at least a couple of times each week or more (depending on the heat and what they seem to need). I will need to get a moisture probe with a 1 foot reach to see what is going on down below. Also, have high wires so when harvesting you do not have to stoop down so much. Makes perfect sense to me - but then - everything does. Guess I need another glass of wine. Gotta bottle those 4 batches of whites soon - - have real great labels for them!!!!

Apple - only 40 to start - but if I want to build some cattle fences down below I could put in at least an acre - - -no - no - no! getting 'corky' again. They would have to be real good fences with at least a 10' clear space between the fence and the vine. If only one cow got in there - wow - what a mess that would be - vines - grapes - wires and drip lines in one fell swoop!!!!

Fun a'com'n!! On the 28th of this month, one of the local wineries is having a cheese and wine pairing. She, Marti the owner, went down to Beverly Hills, Ca (90210) to a cheese emporium, took her wine and they paired up cheese. She said you will not believe what, the proper, cheese will do for the wine and/or what the wine will do for the cheese. I guess that there will be some cow and goat cheese(s). If interested in seeing their operation, check out www.labellewinery.com. great website and great people.

all for now - - - enjoy your wines.

rrawhide

*Edited by: rrawhide *


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## rrawhide (Jun 25, 2008)

Hi all, again

Let's see where we are now:

vines are in - - -

50 Barbera
25 Nebbiolo
25 Sangiovese







all are over 16-18" tall, in 4" pots, 1 year old, grafted on Freedom Rootstock and waxed










planted depth 2" below graft






25 total vines here - 12 barbera - 7 sangiovese - 6 nebbiolo






all in Blue-x growth tubes






1 gph emitters at each vine and if needed will add one between each plant.

Grower says to water 6 hours/day for 21 days straight to establish a strong root ball - so water - water -water.

I like the look better of the green vines BUT so would the rabbits and squirrals and gophers - - - 

so will look at the blue for awhile.

wish em luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can extend these rows to add another 15 vines for a total of 40 but will have to rent a hand held post hole auger - - - tried by hand - - - am too old and it's too hot for that !!!!

40 vines at 1 gallon/wine per vine = 40 gallons/year after a few years and this should be enough - - - 

anyway wanted you to see what was going on - - - 

now just need to add the 2nd and 3rd wire and maybe some crossarms - - -

anybody wanta help?

every day is a good day but some are just better than others!!!

later

rrawhide



*Edited by: rrawhide *


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## Wade E (Jun 25, 2008)

That looks awesome RRawhide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rrawhide (Jun 25, 2008)

thanx Wade -

wish you were closer to get some of these vines. $3 each - what a great deal.

hope you are having a great day.

later

rrawhide


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## Joanie (Jun 25, 2008)

rrawhide said:


> - - - I'm too hot for that !!!!



That's exactly what Mrs. Rawhide says!


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## grapeman (Jun 25, 2008)

That's coming along nicely. Thanks for sharing it all with us. I question 6 gallons of water a day per vine. That is a lot of water. Is your soil sandy or does it have a bit of clay- I don't recall if you said. The way the water is puddling, I would be afraid it would cake the soil and drown/suffocate the rootball. I don't live in California, so I can't say for sure.


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## rrawhide (Jun 25, 2008)

soil - you said soil - it seems like we have a lot of decomposed granite and some topsoil - - - mixed a handful of humus into the soil (?) we dug out - so hope it will do something. Below that is hardpan - - - so we will see!!!! I will watch the moisture and see what is happening - you are right 6 gpd seems like a lot of water. . . . . .......

later 

rrawhide


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## OilnH2O (Jun 25, 2008)

Looks great, Rrawhide!





I sure do think you could squeeze a few more vines in there, though. I tried the blue-x tubes last year and think I left them on a little too long -- way into the middle of summer. I don't think the stems ever really developed well, and this year I have canes coming up from the ground, or near the bottom of last year's stem.

The pinot vines I got this year were really a little too bushy and branched out (they were bare-root) so I left the blue-x off. But, the concept makes sense to me. It's all part of the learning curve, I figure! 

Isn't this about as much fun as a guy could get with _real work_???!!


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## AlFulchino (Jul 15, 2008)

i am not sure if anyone mentione dit, but i saw a question about why drip lines are elevated....if they remain on the ground they can clog w roots looking for water....minerals from the soil and also bugs will seek the emitter holes out.....another good reason to keep them elevated ( if the first were not enough)  is that you can easily check your output from an emitter if the need arises by placing a pail underneath




*****
great pictures... and great job.....i would not mind growing a fre of the varieties you are growing


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## Waldo (Jul 16, 2008)

Looking might good there buddy..


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## rrawhide (Aug 9, 2008)

Hi all - UPDATE</font>

Well, things are/were going very well - looking down the top of the blue-x tubes and seeing lots of green. Then a brown kinda dead leaf appeared in one of the tubes. Pulled off the tube and all the branches and stems were dead. Hummmmmmmmm - pulled on the plant and out it came - no roots at all. hummmmmmmmmmmmm - gophers and more gophers. SO, poisoned and trapped for a couple of weeks - got some and thought things were all better - then _super gopher_ appeared!!!! got some more of them - so we decided to dig them all up and made a wire basket out of 19 ga. hardware cloth 1/2" grid for each one of them. Had a few extra plants so were able to fill in the blank spots. All baskets are in now &amp; I took off all the blue-x tubes so we can watch what is going on better. Root ball is protected from gophers now and also the top is covered. Hope this will not hinder the plants from growing and developing. They are all mostly 3-4 feet tall now (single stem) and look good except for the replacements - 16-18". 

Wadda ya think, guys - will the baskets help or hinder? We have done gopher traps; gassers; water and now a granular topdressing that you water in. Hope that this works - - - 

any comments would be appreciated - thanx

rrawhide

*Edited by: rrawhide *


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## Wade E (Aug 9, 2008)

I know nothing about this stuff but just hd t make this comment! What a shame! Hope all gets better.


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## grapeman (Aug 9, 2008)

Yikes! Those are some super hungry gophers. I don't see why the baskets wouldn't work. Like you say you can monitor them better than with the Blue-X tubes. Most folks I know use them once and decide they aren't as good as others say for one reason or another. I hope they continue to grow well for the remainder of the season. At least you have a great long summer there.


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