# Back sweetening DB



## DaveL (Oct 15, 2013)

OK So as not to hijack an earlier thread, to what SG do you back sweeten your dragons blood? My first 2 batches of db were taken to a 1.04 =/-.01 after fermenting dry. Very popular. 
My brother, who I've corrupted, likes his a bit drier.
My hypothesis is a little drier tends to make it more appealing to those red wine snob types. Agree or disagree?


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

I back sweeten with 4 cups of sugar


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## Julie (Oct 15, 2013)

Backsweeten it to 1.010 and leave it sit for a few days and try that. To be honest 1.040 would be on the syrupy side.

Tess adding 4 cups of sugar is not going to give you a consistent sweetening level. You really need to sweeten to a hydrometer level.


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

To be honest 4 cups works for me because it dont last that long


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

I do understand what your saying though


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## Thig (Oct 15, 2013)

Did I miss the volume here, are we talking about 5 gallons. I have found that if a wine goes dry then about 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon works for me.


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

Im usually at 6 gals fig but its all up to what the individual likes if you like 6 cups add it!!


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

As long as you let it go dry you add what is your taste. this will never stay in my wine rack a year!! Im already out and working on a new batch


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

I know Im gonna get hammered for this. Maybe even banned but it is what it is. Most wines I agree with sticking with the wine rules but this is a DB. Its simple, not pretentious. Follow the recipe and add 4-5 cups to back sweeten to taste. Im telling you it works!! I hate that Im afraid to speak my mind with out having the wine world fall on me but it is what it is!!


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## cedarswamp (Oct 15, 2013)

I add a bit at a time and go by taste, when I get to the point I think it could use just a little more I stop without adding that little bit more, usually winds up perfect...1.015-1.020 for me. When I've added that little bit more it usually winds up too sweet later.


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## cedarswamp (Oct 15, 2013)

Tess said:


> I know Im gonna get hammered for this. Maybe even banned but it is what it is. Most wines I agree with sticking with the wine rules but this is a DB. Its simple, not pretentious. Follow the recipe and add 4-5 cups to back sweeten to taste. Im telling you it works!! I hate that Im afraid to speak my mind with out having the wine world fall on me but it is what it is!!



That's why I don't drink wine while on Wine Making Talk.


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

cedarswamp said:


> That's why I don't drink wine while on Wine Making Talk.



really!!that's sad when there is no challenge!!


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## cedarswamp (Oct 15, 2013)

Tess said:


> really!!thats sad!!



But prudent. 

Seriously though, I don't see anything wrong with what you posted, there's many ways to reach the finish line.


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

yeah ......................ok thats all I live for!!


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

cedarswamp said:


> But prudent.
> 
> Seriously though, I don't see anything wrong with what you posted, there's many ways to reach the finish line.



You r right!! that's exactly right!!. There is!! Especially with DB


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## Tess (Oct 15, 2013)

Tess said:


> You r right!! that's exactly right!!. There is!! Especially with DB



I love the original recipe!! Sticks to it newbie!!


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## Elmer (Oct 15, 2013)

I am in the " no hydrometer " club.
I usually follow the following formula for sweetening: 1 cup of sugar per gallon minus a half cup!

I had a 5 gallon batch I used 3.5 cups of sugar and it was still dry. The flavor really came through but it was not sweet enough.

Another 5 gallon batch I used 4.5 and the flavor came thru with a really nice blend of sweetness.

I follow the same thing for pee ( just tonight).
Seems to work for for me
So 5 gallon would be 4.5 cups.

Just eye ball it and drink up!


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## Julie (Oct 16, 2013)

I understand it is DB and it is not going to last, but I also believe in consistency. I do not care what wine I am making. If I like a certain sweet level I want to know what sg that is not depend on my tastebuds.

Tess, I do not recall anyone hammering you or being banned because you posted an opinion.


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## jamesngalveston (Oct 16, 2013)

I totally disagree with all of you. LOL
I use not hydrometer to use as a gauge for sweetening, are a pre defined amount.
I use my tongue and taste buds...i add simple syrup 1 cup at a time until it taste good. (to me)....


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## Elmer (Oct 16, 2013)

I also use my wife. 
I randomly hand her glasses of liquid and ask her if it is too sweet.
She has a sweet tooth and if it is too sweet for her, I am have a flushable wine!

I only sweeten SP, DB and fruit wines. All other reds I may stay dry. If anything I may add 1 cup for 6 gallons to take the cotton ball effect out of the dryness of a wine.

However when sweetening DP and SP. I am Unscientific and a cretin!
I just dump, stir, guzzle, repeat!


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## DaveL (Oct 16, 2013)

Yeah I guess I mistook my reading. 1.004 would be more like it. Around 4 cups for a 6 gallon batch. 
Just curious. how sweet everyone liked it. I wasn't really concerned with how you got there we've all had that discussion before. But SG is the only definitive/quantitative way to discuss sweetness level regardless of quantity.
Didn't want to get you worked up Tess,lol.


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## seth8530 (Oct 16, 2013)

Typically what I do to back sweeten is take out a 3 to 4 different samples of the dragons blood or wine. I then add different amounts of sugar to each one. I then taste each glass of the wine taking breaks in between and eating something like crackers so that I am not sugar blinded. I then find out which glass I think taste the best. 

I then take the glass that I like best and take some more samples and add in similar but different amounts of sugar and taste those samples. Once I figure out which sample of all taste the very best I then take a hydrometer reading of the winning sample and backsweeten the wine or dragons blood to that level using math. 

Thus, I do sweeten by taste but I am not risking the whole batch by blindly adding sugar to it.


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## wineforfun (Oct 16, 2013)

Julie said:


> but I also believe in consistency. I do not care what wine I am making. If I like a certain sweet level I want to know what sg that is not depend on my tastebuds.



I agree. ^^^^^


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## Arne (Oct 16, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> Typically what I do to back sweeten is take out a 3 to 4 different samples of the dragons blood or wine. I then add different amounts of sugar to each one. I then taste each glass of the wine taking breaks in between and eating something like crackers so that I am not sugar blinded. I then find out which glass I think taste the best.
> 
> I then take the glass that I like best and take some more samples and add in similar but different amounts of sugar and taste those samples. Once I figure out which sample of all taste the very best I then take a hydrometer reading of the winning sample and backsweeten the wine or dragons blood to that level using math.
> 
> Thus, I do sweeten by taste but I am not risking the whole batch by blindly adding sugar to it.


 
I love it, sample, taste, sample taste, taste, taste, what the H was I doing anyway????  Arne.


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## bluedog (Oct 16, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> Thus, I do sweeten by taste but I am not risking the whole batch by blindly adding sugar to it.



Using your method, do you find that for a wine that you make on a regular basis (like DB) you land at a consistent SG each time, or does it depend on what your taste buds are in the mood for at the time of back-sweetening a particular batch?


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## jamesngalveston (Oct 16, 2013)

when I make my db, i make sure that it is at 15% abv, if it isnt I add a berry vodka to get to that sg.....then I add a simple syrup a cup at a time 
until its as I like it.
depending on what fruit I use, demands how much sugar.
my peach i did not use much sugar
concord grape, not much.
triple berry and black berry i added 4 cups.


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## seth8530 (Oct 16, 2013)

It depends on a little bit of both. I tend to find that if the batches are nearly identical that the gravity of the batch from previous batch vs the current batch should be close to in line with each other. However, every batch is different due to differences in procedure, temperature and acidity. Thus it is important to taste before you sweeten the whole batch to a certain level. However, using the gravity from the last batch makes an excellent starting point.


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## bluedog (Oct 16, 2013)

Thank for the input. I was curious because while some have suggested targeting a specific SG (e.g., 1.010) for back-sweetening purposes, I hadn't seen mentioned the expected contribution to SG of basic table sugar (sucrose). Given that it is around 46 ppg (points/pound per gallon), a specific quantity by weight should give you a pretty good idea of the change in in SG (as measured by hydrometer reading) you would expect to see from the sugar addition.

That suggests to me that targeting SG alone won't necessarily account for more palate-driven factors (%abv, acidity, aromatics, etc.), which a more experimental approach allows for. I will give that try.


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## seth8530 (Oct 16, 2013)

bluedog said:


> Thank for the input. I was curious because while some have suggested targeting a specific SG (e.g., 1.010) for back-sweetening purposes, I hadn't seen mentioned the expected contribution to SG of basic table sugar (sucrose). Given that it is around 46 ppg (points/pound per gallon), a specific quantity by weight should give you a pretty good idea of the change in in SG (as measured by hydrometer reading) you would expect to see from the sugar addition.
> 
> That suggests to me that targeting SG alone won't necessarily account for more palate-driven factors (%abv, acidity, aromatics, etc.), which a more experimental approach allows for. I will give that try.



Sure give it a try, and once you find a taste that you like, take a hydrometer reading and calculate how much sugar you need to add based on that. I have never lived outside of the the United Stated but the budding engineer inside me insist that I use metric units for doing such calculations. If you need some help or would like to see my methodology for calculating how much sugar to hit a certain mark I would be more than willing to discuss that as well.


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## dangerdave (Oct 18, 2013)

What I've discovered at our house is that winos live here! The wine is going to get itself drank (or drunk?). That gives me free reign---as the maker of the wine---to do as I choose as far as sweetness is concerned. Also, being an alert and attentive husband, I have come to understand my wife's pallet instictively. She gets to taste all of my wines dry (she _hates_ dry wine, but I make her taste them anyway), then I disappear into the Lab and return with something she will like. It never fails.

As a result, all of my DB and it's associated versions are sweetened to about 1.010. I've been working her towards dryer wines as the years go by. She is far more tolerant of lightly sweetened, or semi-sweet wines than she used to be. Case in point: I finished and bottled my Lazy Dave's wine this past weekend. It was the last of my Coastal White kits. Johnna asked if I would make it a little sweet so she could enjoy it, too. I added one cup of sugar to the six gallon carboy and stirred it in (SG = 1.000). She loved it. The elder flowers and oak along with the hint of sweetness turned out perfect.

I'm such a lucky guy!


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 19, 2013)

After doing small batch tests we found we liked ours at somewhere between 1.00 and 1.003. I think the extreme fruitiness of this wine allows to to be drier for us. But then I guess since we do mostly drink reds that's why we tended toward the drier range. I fermented mine to .990 and added 3.5 cups of sugar to our 6 gallon batch. I was one who added sultana raisins and banana to mine as well as antioxia juice. So I have no idea how that influenced the flavor of the original DB recipe. It's going to be interesting to do the orig recipe next! But this was the quad berry one anyways so maybe I have apples instead of oranges!


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## ou8amaus (Oct 19, 2013)

I am on my second and third batches and this time will be taking the forum's suggestion and will test various sg levels. One thing about DB though is that we, like most I assume (?), drink it cold. This, in my experience, has an effect on the perception of sweetness... What comes across slightly too sweet at room temperature seems spot on when refrigerated. So bench trials on refrigerated DB seem in order?


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## dangerdave (Oct 21, 2013)

We always drink our DB chilled, Micky. Some wines are definately better that way.


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## wineforfun (Oct 21, 2013)

dangerdave said:


> She gets to taste all of my wines dry (she _hates_ dry wine, but I make her taste them anyway),
> 
> As a result, all of my DB and it's associated versions are sweetened to about 1.010. I've been working her towards dryer wines as the years go by. She is far more tolerant of lightly sweetened, or semi-sweet wines than she used to be.



Wow, our wives must be related. The sweeter the better for my wife. I have gotten her to try and drink(albeit sparingly) some semi-sweet wines. My DB stays around 1.010-1.014(though 1.010 is as sweet as I can handle).

I don't have to worry about her "stealing" my dry reds, so life is good.


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## Tess (Oct 21, 2013)

As long as your happy with the outcome thats all that matters. On another batch this week and I will use the four cups because it works for us


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 22, 2013)

Tess said:


> As long as your happy with the outcome thats all that matters. On another batch this week and I will use the four cups because it works for us



I used 3.5 on mine and then I thought it was too sweet but just a tad. Can anyone tell me if time in the bottle makes this a bit more mellow and less in your face sweet like a wine cooler? If so then I'd opt to use the same amt on my next batch.


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## wineforfun (Oct 23, 2013)

ckvchestnut said:


> I used 3.5 on mine and then I thought it was too sweet but just a tad. Can anyone tell me if time in the bottle makes this a bit more mellow and less in your face sweet like a wine cooler? If so then I'd opt to use the same amt on my next batch.



Not sure if it is going to do what you want, as far as sweetness, as 3.5c is on the light side of sweetening. 

Just make sure and save some of those bottles for 2-4 months as the flavor/taste really changes over that time and comes together. Most people notice the tartness from the lemon juice subsiding over that time and the berry flavors coming forward.


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## jamesngalveston (Oct 23, 2013)

I can taste a difference weekly....I like to keep mine a month before opening, then its katie bar the door, I want to drink all of em.


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## Tess (Oct 23, 2013)

I use four and drink a bottle (Or two  ) bottling day so I cant tell in a month. after a month or two yes you can tell. Never last longer then that in the bottle around here because as soon as my family here its drinkable they come over and drink it and take a bottle with them. Thats gonna stop


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 23, 2013)

Haha! Thanks everyone! Well maybe my problem is that I only added 40oz of lemon juice instead of 48oz and that it may not be as tart for a sweet wine as I might like! I love that this can be made so quickly so we can experiment lots!

I'm definitely hiding some wine for as long as possible would like to see how it is 6 months or more later like some of you do.


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## Tess (Oct 23, 2013)

I dont even use that much and mine is fine. You will get it just where YOU like it


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 23, 2013)

Haha yes I'm sure all will be well! I think it's just because I have been drinking practically bone dry big reds exclusively for so long. Not saying I'm a wine snob! I sort of moved from Riesling and Zinfandel types to bigger reds and somehow my taste buds got so used to having less sugars. I seem to handle sweetness if there is a slight tartness or crispness to it as well. I noticed though yesterday when tasting it out of the bottle that it has changed after just a few days in the bottle.


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