# Secondary fermentation



## grapecrusher (Nov 14, 2013)

How do you tell when primary fermentation is done and secondary starts?


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## Elmer (Nov 14, 2013)

...When you transfer the must from a bucket to a carboy!


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## LoveTheWine (Nov 14, 2013)

grapecrusher said:


> How do you tell when primary fermentation is done and secondary starts?



It's really all one big fermentation. When your juice/wine falls to 1.030 - 1.00
usually it is racked from primary bucket to a secondary carboy and fermentation finishes there.

Sometimes a person adds a malolactic bacteria during yeast ferment and this is often referred to a secondary fermentation as it continues on after all the sugar has been eaten by the yeast. This can also happen on its own sometimes.


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## Rocky (Nov 14, 2013)

Crusher, as Aaron and Elmer point out, it is a matter of semantics. I use the term "secondary fermentation" to refer to what takes place in my "second fermenter," normally a carboy but on some occasions, it is a barrel. I move my wine to my second fermenter when the SG is at or below 1.020. You will find others that keep it there longer, this is just what I do. I use the term "second fermentation" when referring to malolactic fermentation. This requires a different strain of yeast and in this fermentation, harsher malic acid is converted to softer lactic acid. I normally have to read the context to understand what the writer is referring to in using the term "secondary fermentation."


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## Elmer (Nov 15, 2013)

Elmer said:


> ...When you transfer the must from a bucket to a carboy!





when I went back and re-read, I had no intention of making my reply Condescending.

I needed a rimshot to accompany my quick, witty response !!!!!


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## bkisel (Nov 15, 2013)

Elmer said:


> when I went back and re-read, I had no intention of making my reply Condescending.
> 
> I needed a rimshot to accompany my quick, witty response !!!!!



I got it on the first read but think it big of you to re-post just in case the OP didn't pick up on your quick wit.


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## Elmer (Nov 15, 2013)

bkisel said:


> I got it on the first read but think it big of you to re-post just in case the OP didn't pick up on your quick wit.



It was actually my attempt at apologizing for being a schmuck.
Just like my wit, my apologies are lame!


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## Julie (Nov 15, 2013)

You know I am really confused in where the term "Secondary Fermentation" came from. It really is not a term you would find in winemaking. To say it is the fermentation that goes on once you transfer to the carboy is not correct. Once fermentation has started it is all one continuous ferment, it does not stop and re-start once it has been racked to a carboy but I noticed there are a lot on here who believe this. Like Rocky and Lovethewine, I would be more tempted to believe it is a wine going thru MLF.


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## grapecrusher (Nov 15, 2013)

Thx for clearing that up. I've been making wine since '98 but I have learned a lot since I started following this forum. It's great.


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## jamesngalveston (Nov 17, 2013)

Julie, I have read and read on this and i agree with you.
once fermentation starts, thats it till its finnished.
Lots of people think that wine starts oxidizing in an open vessel..(bucket).
Not true it will not start oxidizing until it has completely stopped making co2.
The distinction of the two ferments, one...is its making yeast cells rapidly to eat the sugar...aerobic 
The second phase,anaerobic is where the alcohol is made..
But it is still the same ferment> period.
Lack of oxygen keeps the yeast from expanded and helps it make alcohol.
I ferment to dry, and my chosen abv (15) is always the same, it does not matter if its n a bucket are a carboy, it just happens faster in an open bucket.....once it has went dry...i move to another carboy for less air exposure.....


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## LoveTheWine (Nov 17, 2013)

grapecrusher said:


> Thx for clearing that up. I've been making wine since '98 but I have learned a lot since I started following this forum. It's great.



X2 to this.
I started in 2000 and have learned more in the past year then I have in the past 13


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## SouthernChemist (Nov 17, 2013)

Fermentation is just a continuous anaerobic process regardless of the container it is in. As for where secondary fermentation came from, that's a good question. Having an origin in MLF is probably a good guess. I personally will just ferment to dryness in my primary container and only close it up when it's close to finishing. Never had an issue.


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## LoveTheWine (Nov 20, 2013)

Sorry in advance to add you Jack Keller haters out here but I came across an old blog of his explaining what he feels 'secondary fermentation' means



> Secondary Fermentation
> 
> 
> From the time you pitch the yeast until they all lay dead on the bottom of the carboy, it is all the "primary fermentation."
> ...


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## iVivid (Nov 21, 2013)

I call it secondary ferment*er.*.. (after I rack)... because, well, it is!


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