# ...to rack or not to rack before fermentation is complete?



## lhunkele (Sep 9, 2010)

o.k, so I'm trying to educate myself to some extent to get a better understanding of what I'm doing however, at times it seems the more I read, the more confused I am...

I'm attempting to follow Jack Kellar's recipe for Peach and Grape Wine and the recipe says after 10 days in the primary, '...siphon off sediments into secondary and fit airlock. Rack every 30 days until fermentation completely ends and wine clears...'

Then I come across this other winemaking website and it says not to... (see below).

Your thoughts? experience?
Thank you,
Linda

http://www.home-winemaking.com/winemaking-2b.html
_Occasionally one sees books which recommend racking as soon as one month after the wine has been placed in the demijohn - whether or not the fermentation is complete. This is bad winemaking practice. The bulk of the yeast colony forms a light sediment on the bottom of the fermentation vessel soon after it has been set up, and racking before the fermentation has ended will clearly leave only those yeast cells in suspension in the wine. This could deplete the colony to a point where it would almost certainly be inadequate to carry fermentation through to completion. So why do some books recommend such early racking? The answer seems to be that if fruit pulp and debris have passed into the demijohn, they may impart unpleasant flavors if they are left In the wine; hence the need for early racking. In my view, however, this problem should not arise if the pulp has been strained correctly. Therefore in general, once a fermenting must has been put under airlock, it should remain there until the fermentation has finished._


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 9, 2010)

Rack when fermentation is complete - check the SG and if it is the same for 3 days in a row - it is complete.

Then rack every 3-4 months and add k-meta 1/16 tsp for every 1 1/2 gallons of wine.


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## JasonH (Sep 9, 2010)

When a recipe places a time constraint on a step, take it as an approximation. Each wine you make has its own schedule. Let your hydrometer tell you when its time to move on to the next step.


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## Wade E (Sep 9, 2010)

Im a firm believer in the bottom statement so as not to have a stuck fermentation and doing it this way Ive never had a problem with fermenting a wine all the way out. With red wines I almost always ferment to dry in bucket, with lighter wines I rack around 1.015 and stir it up a little so as not to leave too much yeast behind. I also use ascorbic acid in my lighter white and fruit wines to prevent any possible oxidation from happening as its an anti oxidant but doesnt hinder fermentation like sulfites do.


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 9, 2010)

Wade E said:


> Im a firm believer in the bottom statement so as not to have a stuck fermentation and doing it this way Ive never had a problem with fermenting a wine all the way out. With red wines I almost always ferment to dry in bucket, with lighter wines I rack around 1.015 and stir it up a little so as not to leave too much yeast behind. I also use ascorbic acid in my lighter white and fruit wines to prevent any possible oxidation from happening as its an anti oxidant but doesnt hinder fermentation like sulfites do.




Wade - for whites when you add the absorbic acid - when do you add this? at racking time - or mix it up in the initial must?


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## Wade E (Sep 9, 2010)

Initial must along with the sulfites or sometimes even on the fruit as Im cutting it up before putting it in the freezer depending on the fruit. In example with apple and pear I advise you to sprinkle the fruit with it as you are cutting itm up as it can brown very easily like an apple with a bite out of it.


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## djrockinsteve (Sep 9, 2010)

Wade, I was thinking about using my fruit press to produce apple cider then immediately add the remaining bits of apple to the cider and add Pot. Meta. Then add pectic enzyme to break down the remaining sugar in the apple bits. 

Wouldn't the Pot. Meta. addition eliminate the browning. I just read that within a week. I can't remember if thet was here or in one of the 2 books I'm reading.

My theory is I do not want to add any water. If I just use cider, I miss out on what the remaining apple has to offer. If I chope up the apples I will have to add some water for it to rest in. 

After the pectic begins it's breakdown I can adjust the gravity before fermentation.


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## robie (Sep 10, 2010)

I was thinking that Jack Keller is an advocate of always lightly stirring up the yeast from the bottom before racking to secondary. I know other posts by him say to do it. Maybe in this particular post he forgot to mention it.

I think the idea is to stir up the yeast, wait a few minutes for the gross lees to settle to the bottom again, then rack.

(Stirring a Cellar Craft grape wine kit, which includes the special enzyme packet, just before racking to secondary will create all kinds of problems. The reason is because stirring will cause too much bentonite to be lifted and carried across to the secondary. Bentonite in the secondary will completely disable the effect of the enzyme and drag it straight to the bottom of the secondary container.)


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## smack (Sep 26, 2010)

Wade E said:


> With red wines I almost always ferment to dry in bucket.



Wade, I've been wondering, as I've seen you make this statement often: are you referring to kit wines only or do you do this with "made from scratch" wines. that is to say, if you had some fine, fresh grape sediment that escapes from a pulp bag, would you still feel okay about fermenting to dry on the lees? once its in the carboy and sediment continues to fall out, would 3 months on the sediment, between racking be just fine?


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## djrockinsteve (Sep 26, 2010)

Smack, I completely ferment all my wines completely down in a 6 gallon primary bucket with a lid on loosely. Stir twice a day. This is both my juices and fruits (I remove as much pulp as possible but I'm only 2 or 3 days away from racking). As soon as fermentation ends I splash rack into a carboy leaving behind sediment. I'll add 1/4 teaspoon sulfite and sparkolloid for clearing. Between the splash racking and mixing the sparkolloid I get rid of most CO2.

Between 4 to 6 weeks later rack off of sediment, add a pinch of sulfite and bulk age (reds get oaked). 6 months fruits and whites, 12 months for reds.

I do not rack again until I plan to sweeten / bottle and I'll rack to mix the reds I've oaked then bottle. All my wines are kept reasonably cool but will during August reach low 70's. I allow this as any remaining sediment falls out.

Being patient and following certain procedures allows you to achieve good if not great wines.

Some of us do some things different. Whatever works problem free.


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## smack (Sep 26, 2010)

thanks steve!


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