# Mix-stir and degassing



## winesnob (Sep 6, 2006)

I got a mix-stir for my birthday yesterday (thanks to George for hooking my wife up). I have a Dry Creek Chardonnay in bulk aging that has been sitting in the carboy for 1.5 months. Is it too late to use the mix-stir?? I also have a Lodi Zin finishing up the clarifying stage. When is it too late to degass with a power drill attachment??

I believe you don't want to add oxygen this late in the game and I am worried that using this device will add oxygen.

Thanks,
Scott


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## masta (Sep 6, 2006)

You only want to use your mix-stir now if the wine is not completely degassed. 


You really don't want to stir if it doesn't need it at this point since exposing the wine to lots of oxygen could be a bad thing.


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## winesnob (Sep 6, 2006)

I do need to degass, but I would rather not inject oxygen in doing so. I'll use a mighty-vac instead. No I have this tool so I don't have to worry about degassing later in the process.

Thanks Masta!


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## sangwitch (Sep 6, 2006)

It's my understanding that if you're degassing in a carboy, the CO2 that's being dispersed is going to push off and prevent anyoxygen from entering your wine. It's only when the wine does not need to be degassed are you introducing oxygen.


Can others please comment?


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## masta (Sep 6, 2006)

You are correct and here is a repeat of Tim's instructions that confirm this:


"Just a quick redux of the stirring issue for my (Winexpert) kits:


<UL>
<LI>If you've fermented at the right starting volume, the right temperature, and you've achieved the recommended specific gravity levels, then you'll be able to stir the wine to de-gas within the time-frames specified in the instructions. 

<LI>If the wine was started at anything other than the full 6 US-gallons (23 litres) or it was fermented cooler than 68 F, or if your gravity readings were not at or below the recommended levels when you did the process, you will not experience consistent success. 
<LI>You only need to stir a Winexpert kit four times. 

<UL>
<LI>On day one, you have to beat the snot out of the must to mix it properly. A good, arm-cracking one minute stir to froth it up and mix the juice and water will get you off to a good start and a thorough fermentation 
<LI>On fining/stabilising day, after you've double-checked the SG, then you can first stir the kit without adding anything--and without racking it off the sediment! (Unless it's a Crushendo kit, but that's covered in the instructions--no racking for any other kit. If you choose to rack it, you will not experience consistent results. This first stirring will be to greatly de-gas the wine, prior to adding any of the fining agents or stablisers. Beat the hell out of it, for one full minute. Use a watch or clock--one minute is a lot longer than most people think. If you can scractch your head with your stirring hand after that one minute, you haven't stirred hard enough. It should be an all-out blizzard of effort that costs you all of your strength, and you should see spots in front of your eyes (see why I tell people to buy a drill-mounted stirring whip?) 
<LI>Add the sorbate and the sulphite, and stir again, for one full minute. This time you may break one or two small bones in your stirring arm, but don't slow down--if anything, stir harder. 

<LI>Add the fining agent and the F-Pack (if the kit has one) and stir for one more full minute. Have the paramedics standing by with a bag of ice to carry your stirring arm to the hospital where it can be re-attached. Top up with water and call it a day. 
</LI>[/list]</LI>[/list]Now, if you have fizzy wine after this regimen, you don't have a stirring issue. You have eiither got an incomplete or ongoing fermentation, or you're mistaking foam for fizz, or you may have an inicipient lactic acid bacterial infection that is making a bit of CO2 in the wine. 

The amount of stirring described will reduce SO2 slightly in the kit: however, the amount it is reduced by is minimal, because rather than uptaking oxygen during this process, the wine out-gasses CO2, which actually scrubs some of the oxygen out of the wine. 

If you stir at a time when the wine is not saturated with CO2, you may experience reduced SO2 and potentially expose the wine to oxidation. But then, why are you stirring wine if it's not fizzy? 

Hope this helps outl"

Tim Vandergrift
Technical Services Manager, Winexpert Limited.


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## geocorn (Sep 6, 2006)

The best way to determine if you have any CO2 left is to place a sample in a small jar and shake it up with your thumb over the opening. When you removeyour thumb, if you hear a poof, then you still have CO2; otherwise, you don't.


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## winesnob (Sep 7, 2006)

I know there is still gass in my Chardonnay because when I hook the mighty-vac up to it, bubbles come up. Are the opinions that I should use the mix-stir instead of the mighty-vac?


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## masta (Sep 7, 2006)

Give it a shot with the mix-stir and if you have not added the extra 1/4 tsp (1.5 grams) of k-meta as noted in the instructions for storage over 6 months I would do that also.


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## winesnob (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks, I'll do that tonight


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## PolishWineP (Sep 7, 2006)

How did it go degassing? Did you get a good head of foam?


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## winesnob (Sep 7, 2006)

I don't/didn't have time tonight. I'm working from home tonight (way behind at work) and my wife had a town woman's meeting tonight so the kids didn't let me have any time. I'll try again tomorrow night. I'll see if I can get pictures.


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## Wade E (Sep 7, 2006)

You know kids like to play with drills too!


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## winesnob (Sep 11, 2006)

I used the mix-stir Friday night (sorry no pictures) on my Chardonnay. I put in my 1/4 teaspoon of K-Meta. There were some bubbles/foaming, but not much. There was only about 1/4 cup total. I should be all set now. I will have to do it to my Lodi Zin next, once I transfer it into a glass carboy.


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