# Red Wine - Improved Color Extraction



## PCharles (Feb 15, 2012)

After reading a few threads here on winemaker this morning, I decided to give my 2011 cab sauv a taste. Back in September I started with 12 gallons of must and now have 8 gallons of wine in glass carboys. I added my small tasting portion to a wine glass so I could evaluate aroma, color and taste. Over all I was very pleased with the tasting. I did notice that the color was lighter than cab sauvs that you might find at a winery or store. That's fine with me knowing this was my first try from grapes. I'm sure I will enjoy every drop. That aside, I'm looking to next season and would appreciate suggestions on techniques to increase the color extraction from the skins. I noticed products such as Lallzyme EX. Here is a link to that product.
http://morewinepro.com/view_product/15496/100470/Lallzyme_EX_8g
I did use oak cubes, but don't have oak barrels. 

I'd appreciate your suggestions and experience with additives to increase color and other desirable red wine traits.

Thanks,
PCharles


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## jwalker1140 (Feb 15, 2012)

I used Lallzyme EX for the first time on my 2011 Cab and I think it helped the color and the yield (125 lbs of fruit will turn into ~9 gallons of finished wine). I slightly under-dosed because I was concerned about the skins turning into goo by the time I pressed, which others have reported. I didn't have a problem with this at all and I'll probably use a full dose on my 2012.

I've also heard of people using Opti-Red in conjunction with Lallzyme EX with great results. I may give that a try this year.

Of course, you could just cheat and add some Mega-Purple like the mass market guys do.


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## robie (Feb 15, 2012)

There are several things one can do besides or along-with adding the chemicals.

A pre-fermentation cold soak with stirring for 2 or 3 days really helps. Also an extended maceration toward the end of fermentation goes a long ways to extract more color, as long as excessive tannins is not an issue.

The warmer the fermentation temperatures, the more extraction takes place. However, the warmer temps can hurt the fruitiness and cause other issues, so there can be a trade-off.

I would recommend the pre-fermentation cold soak with stirring. It can go longer than 3 days; I've heard of 2 and 3 week cold soaks. You initial SO2 dosage will be even more critical with a cold soak.


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## REDBOATNY (Feb 15, 2012)

I don't know the exact procedure, however in my area (Finger lakes ,NY) Most red juice is available either cold pressed, or hot pressed. The hot pressed is much darker than the cold press. I am thinking like a steam juicer. It may have merit to try with a home wine press.


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## PCharles (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestions. I considered an extended maceration last year, but ruled it out due to warm temps in my basement along with my inability to maintain a constant cool temperature. Perhaps I could do a 2-3 day one. I believe I'll give the opti red and Lallzyme EX a try next season. 

Thanks,
PCharles


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## robie (Feb 15, 2012)

PCharles said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I considered an extended maceration last year, but ruled it out due to warm temps in my basement along with my inability to maintain a constant cool temperature. Perhaps I could do a 2-3 day one. I believe I'll give the opti red and Lallzyme EX a try next season.
> 
> Thanks,
> PCharles



I used dry ice for the cold soak. It easily kept the wine in the 40'sF during the whole time.


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## PCharles (Feb 15, 2012)

robie said:


> I used dry ice for the cold soak. It easily kept the wine in the 40'sF during the whole time.



Robbie, Please describe how you applied the dry ice.


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## robie (Feb 15, 2012)

The grapes were in a Brute food-grade can. I broke the dry ice up into smaller chunks, spread/stirred them throughout the grapes; and sealed the can with plastic wrap.

I stirred the must several times a day to breakdown the grape solids as much as possible. I ended up with very good color extraction.

Once the temperature got down into the 40'sF, the mass of grapes pretty much kept the temperature down. I think over three days I added dry ice only three times.


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## ibglowin (Feb 15, 2012)

I have used Opti Red the last 2 crushes and been very pleased with the results. The Cab Sauv and Merlot are inky black. I usually do a 48hr cold soak before pitching the yeast. You can also do bags of ice. Just make sure to double bag them (with trash bags) as you do not want the melted ice water seeping into the must and diluting it to nothing.


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## robie (Feb 15, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> I have used Opti Red the last 2 crushes and been very pleased with the results. The Cab Sauv and Merlot are inky black. I usually do a 48hr cold soak before pitching the yeast. You can also do bags of ice. Just make sure to double bag them (with trash bags) as you do not want the melted ice water seeping into the must and diluting it to nothing.



Yep, the idea is to keep the temperature down below where the yeast might start fermenting.

I have a friend who has a walk-in cooler at his farm. It would be perfect! I wonder if he would oblige.


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## PCharles (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks for the good advice... Opti-Red and Dry Ice covered with plastic. I'll give it a go next time.


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## robie (Feb 16, 2012)

If you can't get dry ice easily, Mike's idea of double bagged ice is a very good way to go. It is certainly a lot easier to handle.

I have also used sanitized, frozen gallon jugs of water. Make sure the lid won't pop off.


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## ibglowin (Feb 16, 2012)

The frozen gallon milk jugs are my preferred way to go the only problem is you have to plan ahead to make them up as they take awhile to freeze, then if you make a bunch of wine all at once like I did this Fall you need a lot of them and a lot of freezer space in which to store these guys, then you have to drive to get the fruit. 

For me this is 350 miles away one way (minimum) or as much as 750 miles like this year when I went to Dallas for Cali grapes. It was impossible to bring ice bombs that far away. 

The ice bags worked well but you absolutely need to double bag as the bag that the ice is in is guaranteed to have holes in it!


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## BillZ (Feb 16, 2012)

I have a small vineyard in my backyard made up of Merlot and Cabernet grapes and have made wine for the last two years from it. The first year it had a light color but the flavor was good. In a attempt to improve the color this year I performed a process called Delestage daily during fermentation. This has improved the color dramatically over last year and the flavors seem to be softer and more pronounced. 

Overall the process is a lot of work but the result appears to be worth it.


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## PCharles (Feb 17, 2012)

BillZ said:


> I have a small vineyard in my backyard made up of Merlot and Cabernet grapes and have made wine for the last two years from it. The first year it had a light color but the flavor was good. In a attempt to improve the color this year I performed a process called Delestage daily during fermentation. This has improved the color dramatically over last year and the flavors seem to be softer and more pronounced.
> 
> Overall the process is a lot of work but the result appears to be worth it.



I found this article in Winemaker Magazine. It discussed the Delestage process you mentioned. I'll need to spend more time reviewing the details.

http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/techniques/article/indices/35-techniques/237-delestage-fermentation-techniques


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## robie (Feb 17, 2012)

That's a very good article. Thanks for sharing and thanks to Bill for bringing up the subject of Delestage.

Just be mindful that the more solids (TDS) that end up in your wine, the longer it will need to age. For me, anyway, this is not a problem, because along with the lengthened aging come a much better wine.


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## robie (Feb 17, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> The frozen gallon milk jugs are my preferred way to go the only problem is you have to plan ahead to make them up as they take awhile to freeze, then if you make a bunch of wine all at once like I did this Fall you need a lot of them and a lot of freezer space in which to store these guys, then you have to drive to get the fruit.
> 
> For me this is 350 miles away one way (minimum) or as much as 750 miles like this year when I went to Dallas for Cali grapes. It was impossible to bring ice bombs that far away.
> 
> The ice bags worked well but you absolutely need to double bag as the bag that the ice is in is guaranteed to have holes in it!



What's worse it when, like me, one does not have a freezer. On my first batch of fresh grapes, I started out using frozen water jugs. Since I didn't have a freezer handy to refreeze the jugs, I soon moved to dry ice. Carting the jugs back and forth to the freezer at my friend's house didn't last very long. 

If you do use plastic water jugs, be sure to remove some of the water from each jug, as freezing can cause the full jug to burst.


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## joea132 (Feb 17, 2012)

I got an excellent color from my extended maceration. However I have heard that there is a point where the color builds and then begins to decline. Just like the tannins. I was very happy with it though.


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## Flame145 (Feb 18, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> I have used Opti Red the last 2 crushes and been very pleased with the results. The Cab Sauv and Merlot are inky black. I usually do a 48hr cold soak before pitching the yeast. You can also do bags of ice. Just make sure to double bag them (with trash bags) as you do not want the melted ice water seeping into the must and diluting it to nothing.



Mike, did you use the opti red in conjunction with Lallzyme ?? I was wondering because I think this october I'm gonna give one of those enzymes a shot prior to fermentation. Last October I did a Cab. Sauv, Merlot and Cab. Franc mix. 40 % 40 % and 20 %. The color this year was somewhat light. 2010 was nice inky purple/black, but I was also using Sangiovese grapes. So I'm kinda of wonering if the addition of either would up my game for finished product. Any thoughts ???


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## ibglowin (Feb 18, 2012)

Yes,

I used both Opti Red and Lallzyme EX in this years crush. I could not believe the color, flavor, mouthfeel out of this years wine when it was racked off the gross lees. Fantastic combination IMHO!


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## Rocky (Feb 19, 2012)

Mike, I know that you are talking about making wine from grapes, but would this compound also enhance a kit with a grape pack?


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## ibglowin (Feb 19, 2012)

Both of those products are intended to work on the grape skins and I don't think there are enough skins in a grape pack to make any noticeable difference. On the other hand I did just experiment and use some Booster Rouge on my WE Washington State Meritage kit. This has been used on kit wines and the reports/feedback seem to be very encouraging.


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## Calamity Cellars (Mar 7, 2012)

Any step you take to increase color and body is reward/risk scenario. 

Cold soak (soaking pre ferment and keeping it cold to prevent ferentation ) is a very low reward with a high cost in keeping it cold. Extraction from Skin and pulp is a water based extraction and very temperature dependant. When you cool the must you are actually slowing down the extraction. Seems kind of counter productive, doesn't it? I am not saying you get zero color from this but the amount is extremely low. May people like to cite the anecdotal 'proof' of color extraction based on the juice turning red before ferment starts. I was involved for a short time in an ongoing study on cold soak and when comparing finished wines (which is the goal) there was little to no difference in color for wines that had been cold soaked. That little bit of color that comes out during cold soak is going to come out anyway. 

Extended Maceration is the soaking after ferment. This has some interesting benefits. Studies have shown that extended maceration can induce tannins to convert from short chain tannin to long chain tannin which is a milder form. However, seed tannin, which is bitter and, in my opinion, quite nasty, is an etoh soluble tannin. Therefore soaking seeds in a high etoh environmnet is a bad idea. If you are able to remove the seeds before extended maceration this may be a good idea. It does not, however, increase color extraction.

Fermentation temperatue is, by far, the very best way to maximize color extraction. Like I stated above, color is water soluble and just like anything water soluable higher temperatures extracts more. This is why we wash clothes and dishes in hot and washing your car works better with hot water. The cool thing about trying to ferment hot is you have a natural heat source...the fermentation itself. If you can find a way to insulate your fermentation container you will easily be able to get temperatures up. I make some of the darkest syrah you will ever come across. I source from a vineyard that is known for dark fruit but then I ferment into the 90's and take no action to control temperature unless it approaches 100F. This is not something I recommend unless you know your fruit and your yeast and you are prepered to restart a stuck ferment if things go south. I only say that to show that I practice what I am preaching.

Best of luck.


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## Rock (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks CC very good read this is how i go about my ferments as well.


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## robie (Mar 8, 2012)

Great post, CC. This is "stuff" we need to hear.

Thanks.


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## tolikovski (Jul 6, 2012)

hi, since the topic covers red's color I'd ask a question. I made Syrah last year, which turned up nice and inky dark, however between 2nd and 3rd racking I lost most of the color. I did not get much splashing during the racking, which was suggested (web search) as a requirement for color retention during bulk aging. Any ideas/suggestions on how to avoid that sort of a color loss?


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## Bartman (Jul 6, 2012)

Tolikovski,
When you racked, how long had you bulk aged? Did you use nay fining agents between the first and second rackings? If so, the agent used might explain it, or a part of it. If you hadn't bulk aged for long, and depending on how much sediment you transferred in the first racking, what you may have thought was dark wine was actually lighter-colored wine with a lot of sediment/grape skins floating in it. If none of that seems to apply, then I am out of ideas.


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## JohnT (Jul 6, 2012)

I have to admit that colorloss liky you describe does not normally happen. Tell us more. How long have you aged it? What did you used to clean you equipment? Any level of detail could be the cause.


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## tolikovski (Jul 6, 2012)

Thank you for your input Bart - I wish it was that obvious . wine spent ~3month between rackings. I had 2oz of med toasted oak beans in the carboy. I chilled wine after ML, so wine was free of sediment. I don't fine wine - after chilling and few racking it is clear enough. Last year I tried (for the first time) extended maceration - extra week under CO2 blanket in a closed barrel, but I doubt that it had something to do with the color loss....


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## tolikovski (Jul 6, 2012)

John, 
usual Meta spray in and out. I haven't noticed any spoilage on then surface, there was not any suspicious smell either.


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## altavino (Jul 6, 2012)

To really get good colour I would use an enzyme like rapidase ex color , an SIY like optired and 2 g / Litre of medium toast French oak (or tannin product , I like oak for it's subtlety) in the primary. 

The enzyme pulls the colour out of the skins, the inactivated yeast product stabilizes the colour during the ferment and the tannin from the oak or tannin product locks it in for the long term and reduces fading.

I like the rapidase ex colour enzyme because I can add it at crush and it isn't inhibited by any so2 added at crush as some enzymes are.

Make sure when you ferment you get a nice hot heat spike timed with the peak of fermentation, 24 Hours of a good hot ferment. This is essential for extraction.

Punch down 4 or 5 times a day this mechanical action further breaks down the skins ( you could even do a submerged cap if you have pump over capability) 

I'd do these before considering cold soaks or extended macerations .

Delaying mlf and doing it in a barrel can also preserve colour , this delayed barrel mlf and colour preservation is often employed with Pinot noir where colour is a struggle to get


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## btom2004 (Jul 6, 2012)

PCharles said:


> After reading a few threads here on winemaker this morning, I decided to give my 2011 cab sauv a taste. Back in September I started with 12 gallons of must and now have 8 gallons of wine in glass carboys. I added my small tasting portion to a wine glass so I could evaluate aroma, color and taste. Over all I was very pleased with the tasting. I did notice that the color was lighter than cab sauvs that you might find at a winery or store. That's fine with me knowing this was my first try from grapes. I'm sure I will enjoy every drop. That aside, I'm looking to next season and would appreciate suggestions on techniques to increase the color extraction from the skins. I noticed products such as Lallzyme EX. Here is a link to that product.
> http://morewinepro.com/view_product/15496/100470/Lallzyme_EX_8g
> I did use oak cubes, but don't have oak barrels.
> 
> ...


I was looking at this item, but have not ordered it yet.
Red Wine Coloring Powder
All-natural Grape-Skin Extract in powder form for color enhancement of red wines, or to blush whites. -FDA approved -Made from selected grapes 'vitus vinifera', notably Ancllotta and Lambrusco Usage; 2-4 gms per gallon 
http://www.winemakersdepot.com/Red-Wine-Coloring-Powder-2-oz--P147.aspx


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 6, 2012)

This seems to be the latest conventional wisdom on a few things mentioned here. For Cold Soaks anything over 3 days is a waste of time. Only certain varietals benefit from Cold Soaks. Cab and Merlot are not one of them Sangiovese is. Most enzymes do a better job of extraction than cold soaks. Tannin additions at lag phase and at 1/3 third sugar depletion locks color in. Ferments over 85 degrees aid in extraction and locking color in. Fruit is not lost going in the the high 80s when fermenting. Extended maceration is not very useful if less than 21 days after fermentation is complete. Ripeness of grapes is the key to extended maceration. Anything less than optimal will extract unwanted seed tannins. Also to correct one thing Opti Red and Booster Rouge are not enzymes. Grape skin extract is fine in small amounts yet can affect taste when used in too much quantity. And my own opinion I am not convinced at all about delayed MLf doing anything. And last using Milk jugs and water jugs is dangerous as they crack very easily in your fermenter.
Use thicker plastic containers for Ice bombs
Malvina


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## ibglowin (Jul 6, 2012)

Such as.........



MalvinaScordaad said:


> Use thicker plastic containers for Ice bombs


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 6, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Such as.........



There are plastic containers sometimes they are in boxes that hold cooking oil they are much thicker. Grape and Juice suppliers have nice food grade plastic containers usually 3- 5 gallon in size. Also these are good http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=26049&catid=611&clickid=searchresults

I use these http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/search.aspx?search=75175&page=1

Malvina


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 6, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> ust make sure to double bag them (with trash bags) as you do not want the melted ice water seeping into the must and diluting it to nothing.


You don't mean the black trash bags do you? They are hardly food grade and leach oils from the plastic. 
Malvina


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## ibglowin (Jul 6, 2012)

I have made multiple orders from US Plastics. Great stuff for sure but they can be pricey. I agree the 1G water bottles sold at stores are thin walled and will split if you look at them crossways. If you use them you should remove several ounces from the top to make plenty of room for expansion due to freezing. Also sticking them in a secondary containment system such as another plastic (garbage) bag with a twist tie is also a good added safety feature. For the home winemaker they are an inexpensive way of controlling temps while you transport your fruit home from far away distances (farther than M&M in Hartford CT to certain places in NY......)


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## ibglowin (Jul 6, 2012)

Would love to see the scientific data from a pertinent research paper. Source?



MalvinaScordaad said:


> You don't mean the black trash bags do you? They are hardly food grade and leach oils from the plastic.
> Malvina


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 7, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Would love to see the scientific data from a pertinent research paper. Source?



OH come on! scientific data from a pertinent research paper?, Just smell the things, someone said some have have insecticide impregnating them. It's not hard to find warnings about their use with food. Food grade bags are clear and not made from recycled materials. Wow you do use them. I really thought you were going to tell me you didn't.

And as far as the US Plastic Jugs being pricey, they are FDA approved food safe especially in an alcohol environment, to me that is paramount , and they last for years. I think they are worth the investment especially when the alternative is a disaster waiting to happen. 

Malvina


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## blazerpb (Jul 7, 2012)

Almost all of the black trash bags come with a odor neutralizing compound. Hefty's "unscented odor block technology" states on their site " Neutralizes garbage odors. Not recommended for food storage". That's enough info to scare me away. I don't need any more scientific data. 
I know the chemicals are inside the bags and not on the outside but the bags are packed together, there has to be some transfer. I believe the company that makes Hefty trash bags also makes large food safe bags for a little more dollars.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 7, 2012)

One other thing not all Dry Ice is Food Grade. Make sure yours is.
Malvina


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## altavino (Jul 7, 2012)

The main problem with non food grade materials is they contain plasticizers which aide in keeping the material flexible. 
These compounds are not as stable as those used in food grade polymers . They can leech into your wine , and if you are lucky just give it bad flavors . It's the health effects I'd really worry about.

Pet soda pop 2 Litre bottles work well for ice bombs are food grade and unlikely to burst . Pet is also used to contain wine coolers , cider etc so Is stable with alcohol

otherwise look for food grade HDPE


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## TJsBasement (Jul 7, 2012)

Just taste some water from a hose that is not made for drinking water, that extra flavor is something, is it bad ??? Wouldn't think it's good but who knows.


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## altavino (Jul 7, 2012)

There is a new product called redstyle which is a combination enzyme and optired type product.

It is great for pulling colour out and if your fruit is unripe at all does wonders to reduce green vegital flavors 
http://www.lallemandwine.us/products/enzyme_strains.php

Great combined with GRE yeast on cab Sauvignon or franc in a cool year like we are having


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 7, 2012)

TJsBasement said:


> Just taste some water from a hose that is not made for drinking water, that extra flavor is something, is it bad ??? Wouldn't think it's good but who knows.


You are right not good. You should use a food grade hose whenever drinking from it. It will be either white or green with a white stripe. You just have to read the label when you buy one. The marine stores always have them.


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## TJsBasement (Jul 7, 2012)

I was just making a point anyone could simply test for themselves that non food grade plastics will leach stuff.


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## altavino (Jul 7, 2012)

wouldn't you rather it was certified food grade by an acredited national body like the UL, CSA or CE ?


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 7, 2012)

TJsBasement said:


> anyone could simply test for themselves that non food grade plastics will leach stuff.



You really can't depend on your senses to test for yourself. That is the scary part. But in the case of Black Trash Bags your nose can tell you without a problem. 

Think you would want to put your grapes in these?.....http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM6381275701P and when they say safe for food prep areas they don't mean you put the food in them. What about the others?


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## altavino (Jul 8, 2012)

One thing I should have mentioned is that you can add oak at the same time as your enzymes but a fermentation stage tannin product should be added at least 24 hour later , usually it's added at the end of lag so as not to interfere with the enzyme action.



altavino said:


> To really get good colour I would use an enzyme like rapidase ex color , an SIY like optired and 2 g / Litre of medium toast French oak (or tannin product , I like oak for it's subtlety) in the primary.
> 
> The enzyme pulls the colour out of the skins, the inactivated yeast product stabilizes the colour during the ferment and the tannin from the oak or tannin product locks it in for the long term and reduces fading.
> 
> ...


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## altavino (Jul 8, 2012)

http://www.lallemandwine.com/IMG/pdf_WUP_2005_3_-_USA.pdf

Malvina 
Here's a Lallmand article discussing delayed mlf preserving colour in light colored wines like Pinot noir and Sangiovese if it works with these colour challenged wines it should help others with less pigment problems too.

This inoculation timing diagram also highlights delaying mlf innoculatio to preserve color

http://www.lallemandwine.com/IMG/pdf_Fiche-8IntALP.qxd.pdf


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## tolikovski (Jul 9, 2012)

altavino said:


> To really get good colour I would use an enzyme like rapidase ex color , an SIY like optired and 2 g / Litre of medium toast French oak (or tannin product , I like oak for it's subtlety) in the primary.
> 
> The enzyme pulls the colour out of the skins, the inactivated yeast product stabilizes the colour during the ferment and the tannin from the oak or tannin product locks it in for the long term and reduces fading.
> 
> ...


when you say 2g/L oak, you mean volume of must or finished wine?


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## tolikovski (Jul 9, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> This seems to be the latest conventional wisdom on a few things mentioned here. For Cold Soaks anything over 3 days is a waste of time. Only certain varietals benefit from Cold Soaks. Cab and Merlot are not one of them Sangiovese is. Most enzymes do a better job of extraction than cold soaks. Tannin additions at lag phase and at 1/3 third sugar depletion locks color in. Ferments over 85 degrees aid in extraction and locking color in. Fruit is not lost going in the the high 80s when fermenting. Extended maceration is not very useful if less than 21 days after fermentation is complete. Ripeness of grapes is the key to extended maceration. Anything less than optimal will extract unwanted seed tannins. Also to correct one thing Opti Red and Booster Rouge are not enzymes. Grape skin extract is fine in small amounts yet can affect taste when used in too much quantity. And my own opinion I am not convinced at all about delayed MLf doing anything. And last using Milk jugs and water jugs is dangerous as they crack very easily in your fermenter.
> Use thicker plastic containers for Ice bombs
> Malvina


great summary, thank you. in my basement must temperature never got higher than 28C at peak. wonder what temperature you inoculate the must at? do you heat the must during the first few days of AF so it spikes over 30C?


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## altavino (Jul 9, 2012)

tolikovski said:


> when you say 2g/L oak, you mean volume of must or finished wine?



estimated finnished wine.


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 9, 2012)

tolikovski said:


> great summary, thank you. in my basement must temperature never got higher than 28C at peak. wonder what temperature you inoculate the must at? do you heat the must during the first few days of AF so it spikes over 30C?


Sorry about the Fahrenheit use. My fermenting room is usually in the mid to high 70s. The grapes cold soak under 50f. The yeast culture is built at 104f with the use of Go-Ferm at 110F. Then Yeast Tempering is employed. After the culture is growing for about an hour Must is added to lower by 10F degrees. The culture is allowed to grow again and after an hour more Must is added to lower another 10F degrees. At the same time buckets of Must are heated in hot water to raise them from 50F to 75F When the culture has dropped to 85F it is added to the Buckets at 75 and the buckets are allowed to grow for 10 hours. Then the Buckets are submerged in the Vat up to the top but not spilled. When the Bucket Temp is 10 degrees more than the Vat the Buckets are pitched. Fermaid O was already added to the Must 24 hours before the pitching. Then the temp of the Must is allowed to climb on its own with no external heat source. With this kind of culture building you will have no problem achieving the heat spike you are looking for. I should say we are talking about a vat with 1000 pounds of grapes. For smaller amounts you may not generate that much heat so wrapping the Vat with Bubble Wrap or Insulation will contain the heat generated better. And when you reach the spike you can remove the insulation. When my room gets too cool I too wrap the vats with insulation.


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## tolikovski (Jul 9, 2012)

MalvinaScordaad said:


> Sorry about the Fahrenheit use. My fermenting room is usually in the mid to high 70s. The grapes cold soak under 50f. The yeast culture is built at 104f with the use of Go-Ferm at 110F. Then Yeast Tempering is employed. After the culture is growing for about an hour Must is added to lower by 10F degrees. The culture is allowed to grow again and after an hour more Must is added to lower another 10F degrees. At the same time buckets of Must are heated in hot water to raise them from 50F to 75F When the culture has dropped to 85F it is added to the Buckets at 75 and the buckets are allowed to grow for 10 hours. Then the Buckets are submerged in the Vat up to the top but not spilled. When the Bucket Temp is 10 degrees more than the Vat the Buckets are pitched. Fermaid O was already added to the Must 24 hours before the pitching. Then the temp of the Must is allowed to climb on its own with no external heat source. With this kind of culture building you will have no problem achieving the heat spike you are looking for. I should say we are talking about a vat with 1000 pounds of grapes. For smaller amounts you may not generate that much heat so wrapping the Vat with Bubble Wrap or Insulation will contain the heat generated better. And when you reach the spike you can remove the insulation. When my room gets too cool I too wrap the vats with insulation.


http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f60/members/altavino thanks!!! much appreciate you reply.
I usually do 100lb at the time, so no wonder I can't get must to the peak temp in a cool basement


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## MalvinaScordaad (Jul 9, 2012)

tolikovski said:


> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f60/members/altavino thanks!!! much appreciate you reply.
> I usually do 100lb at the time, so no wonder I can't get must to the peak temp in a cool basement


One thing a dose of Fermaid K at 18 brix will give you some heat


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