# hooray Blackberry wine!



## nasv (Jun 3, 2007)

After recently purchasing my starter package equipment, and as a TOTAL newbie at wine making, I'm very excited to share that, together with my wife, we have "created" our FIRST must for our 1 gallon batch and our initial measurements came out favorably: 1.092 SG and about 0.65% acid. We are actually documenting our steps via video to share our experiences and ideally help make it easier for other newbs out there like us (or show them what NOT to do).

We are using the blackberry recipe from the purple FVW winemaker's recipe handbook. The funnest part so far has been crushing the blackberries in the nylon bag and seeing all the extracted juice! The toughest so far I think would have to be the cleaning and sanitizing - I consistently felt unsure about the cleanliness and felt that anything I cleaned would be quickly re-contaminated. I hope that the use of the K-meta for sanitizing our equipment in addition the campden in the must does not cause fermentation woes.

We are using a 5g packet of 71B-1122 yeast and for pure learning purposes, we are creating a yeast starter based on the picture-HOW-TO instructions in this forum (my understanding was that we should not need the starter for the 1g must, but that it won't hurt). I will wait for the starter to be bubbling tomorrow morning, give it a swirl, and then tomorrow night I plan to just pour it into our primary fermentor with the must.

Well, I'm very excited about this process and project and just wanted to share. If you have any tips or any corrections or any pitfalls specific to my process, let me know!

-Nico


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## Waldo (Jun 4, 2007)

Welcome nasv. Blackberry makes a very nice wine but be advised it does take at least a year in the bottle for it to be really good. Any particular reason you chose the yeast you did for this batch


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## grapeman (Jun 4, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. Have fun with your new project and hobby. If you want some wine to drink sooner with fruity goodness(although on the sweet side) try an Island Mist kit. They are lower alcohol and all use a grape/fruit mix depending on the variety.


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## nasv (Jun 4, 2007)

Waldo said:


> Welcome nasv. Blackberry makes a very nice wine but be advised it does take at least a year in the bottle for it to be really good. Any particular reason you chose the yeast you did for this batch



hey Waldo! I'm willing to put in the time to age this blackberry wine - I actually hope to keep one bottle for an even longer time since it will have a lot of sentimental value being our first bottled wine!

About the yeast - honestly, I don't know much about the different varieties and it was recommended at the store FVW for the fruit wine. Would you have used something different?

thanks!
-Nico


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## JWMINNESOTA (Jun 4, 2007)

Welcome to the Forum, and Have Fun!


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## scotty (Jun 4, 2007)

Did you wait 24 hours after putting the campden tabs into the juice before pitching your yeast????




It sounds like you did or are waiting.. MMMMMM blackberry wine



*Edited by: scotty *


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## nasv (Jun 4, 2007)

scotty said:


> Did you wait 24 hours after putting the campden tabs into the juice before pitching your yeast????



Thankful to this forum (after perusing for a while), I knew that was necessary! I'm actually in that 24 hour wait right now, and I'm using a yeast starter as well in a separate jar. So the must is at rest right now (created and mixed last night) and the jar with the yeast starter had some foam and bubbles on the top this morning! I gave the jar a little swirl to lightly mix the contents as I had seen on some instructions and I will wait till the end of today to add it to the must.

Thanks for checking in on me with that... let me know if I may run into another common pitfall!

-Nico


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## scotty (Jun 4, 2007)

I always make a starter. I actually enjoy doing it necessary or not.




I usually make my juice and sterilize it in theevening then the next morning i start an 8 hour long starter bottle and it is ready by the end of the 24 hour period that evening. I usually start wit 1/2 cup water + sugar+ nutrient and energizer. Every 4 hours after that i add 1/2 cup water and a bit more sugar.
I make along deal out of it because its fun for me.
The tutorial way is excellent.


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## kutya (Jun 4, 2007)

Welcome to the fourm, sounds like you are on the right path. Keep us posted on what's going on...jh


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## Wade E (Jun 4, 2007)

Welcome nasv, the yeast you used is recommended for country(fruit)
wines so you have been steared in a good direction. Waldo has alot of
experience with blackberry wines and might prefer a different yeast but
this will be fine.


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## Waldo (Jun 4, 2007)

nasv said:


> Waldo said:
> 
> 
> > Welcome nasv. Blackberry makes a very nice wine but be advised it does take at least a year in the bottle for it to be really good. Any particular reason you chose the yeast you did for this batch
> ...




I have much better results with the Montrachet for my Country wines from fresh fruits. They don't like to be too high of an alcohol content as it tends to inhibit or maskthe taste of the fruit. I try and keep them between 12-13% which is about all theMontrachet will yield. I have experimented with several varities of the yeasts and for flavor and body of the finished product Montrachet has came out on top consistently.


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## nasv (Jun 4, 2007)

Waldo said:


> I have much better results with the Montrachet for my Country wines from fresh fruits. They don't like to be too high of an alcohol content as it tends to inhibit or maskthe taste of the fruit. I try and keep them between 12-13% which is about all theMontrachet will yield. I have experimented with several varities of the yeasts and for flavor and body of the finished product Montrachet has came out on top consistently.



Waldo, I will definitely try the Montrachet next time to see how it goes - I'm all about experimenting and trying new things with this awesome hobby!

I'll be reporting later on how the initial yeast starter has kicked off! With the yeast starter, do I just pour it on top of the must? Or should I vigorously mix it into the must?

Thanks,
-Nico


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## Waldo (Jun 4, 2007)

Just pour it over the must. i usually pour it across a sterilized sppon. letting it just splash out over the surface of the muist


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## jobe05 (Jun 4, 2007)

nasv: This is were personal taste will overwhelm sensibility.


I'm not disagreeing at all with what Waldo is saying, I have to agree with him 100%. 


However...............


I too prefer to use 71B in delicate fruit wines, it seems to hold the flavor better, specifically in the Blackberry. 


But!............ You have to shut it off! Waldo is correct that it will go to dry, and if your starting SG was 1.092 your ABV will be a little over 13%, a tadd high for my liking in a fruit wine that should be easy drinking. If you can shut it off (stabilize it) at about 1.010, then you'll end up with an ABV of a little over 11% and won't have to back sweeten (water down).


Keep us posted.


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## nasv (Jun 4, 2007)

jobe05 said:


> nasv: This is were personal taste will overwhelm sensibility.
> 
> 
> I'm not disagreeing at all with what Waldo is saying, I have to agree with him 100%.
> ...



Jobe, thanks for chiming in here - and since I am using 71B this batch, I appreciate your advice for helping make my first batch successful! Being my first batch, I was thinking of just letting the fermentation run its course, but I may stop it early when that time comes.

Thanks,
-Nico


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## nasv (Jun 4, 2007)

Waldo said:


> Just pour it over the must. i usually pour it across a sterilized sppon. letting it just splash out over the surface of the muist



Ok, so, as I mentioned this morning, the yeast starter had a small layer of foam and just a few bubbles - this indicated to me that the fermentation was beginning. Per the steps in the FVW "how-to tutorials" forum, I gently stirred and waited till the afternoon. Upon the gentle swirling the foam disappeared (mixed in to the rest of the starter).

This afternoon, after work, I was thinking I should see the layer of foam reappear in the yeast starter in the jar but it was not present. I feared that something may have gone wrong and that the starter fermentation was not happening. Upon closely looking, however, I saw a lot of tiny tiny bubbles on the surface. They didn't completely cover the liquid surface of the starter but I did see these tiny bubbles actually actively bubbling! I assumed from this activity that the yeast was alive and well and ready to work. So I brought out the must, stirred the must some, and after it calmed, I poured the contents of the yeast starter jar onto the must.

Does this all sound right? Is this expected of the yeast starter? Sorry for seeking such reassurance, I just hope to start off the fermentation well in the 1gal primary fermentor! I think I'm supposed to expect fermentation to begin within 24-48 hours... oh the wait begins.

-Nico


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## jobe05 (Jun 5, 2007)

I have never used a starter from my yeast, I usually, Like Waldo, Just sprinkle it on top of the adjusted must and let it work. I always felt that the yeast know more what to do than I do, so I just let it do it's thing.


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## Wade E (Jun 5, 2007)

Sounds right. Some yeasts foam alot and others just sit there and make a lot of sizzling noise like a carbonated softdrink.


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## rgecaprock (Jun 5, 2007)

Nico..............welcome ................to the best.................forum!!!!


You are doing GREAT!!




Ramona


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## nasv (Jun 6, 2007)

Thanks everyone!!!

Last night, about 24 hours after adding the yeast starter, I checked in on the primary fermentor and we had bubbles and foam galore! I took a specific gravity reading and we were at about 1.080! It smelled like a bakery inside of a winery!

I checked in on it again this morning and the fermentation seemed even more "turned on" and I gave it a nice little stir. The temp has been between 75-80 deg F with last night's and this morning's readings (I think just at the top of the comfort zone/range).

So far so good! I'll take another S.G. reading tonight to continue tracking the progress.

Thanks again for all the support and encouragement, this forum rocks!

-Nico


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## Wade E (Jun 6, 2007)

Excellent job nico, nows the time to start saving up your empty bottles
or go to the recycling center and grab some for free. Or you can buy
them but thats cheating.


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## nasv (Jun 7, 2007)

Just an update for those interested in a newb's progress. Took another S.G reading last night and we are at 1.050! Big drop over the night before reading, going down from 1.080! 

The yeast is working quickly! Per the recipe, I should be racking into the carboy at 1.030 and it seems like I will reach that point sooner than later! How strict is the "racking point"? By this, I mean, if I take a S.G. reading tomorrow morning and see it is already at 1.030 but can't rack till tomorrow night or the next morning, am I putting the wine at risk???

@Wade: definitely have saved my wine bottles! They are all in the corner of the kitchen


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## grapeman (Jun 7, 2007)

It will drop rapidly in the beginning, but that is really fast. Check it and if at 1.030 you could rack it, but another day won't hurt if need be.


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## nasv (Jun 7, 2007)

eeesh, yeast working like crazy and tonight the S.G. has dropped to 1.017 (down from 1.050 yesterday). Am I ruined? I'm not able to rack till around tomorrow afternoon!


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## Waldo (Jun 8, 2007)

Meltdown!!......Evacuate the premises immediately and contact FEMA.




It'll be ok buddy. Just get it to glass as quick as you can. What temp are you fermenting at?


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## scotty (Jun 8, 2007)

you should take more SG readings too



I took some of my first wines to bed with me.


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## nasv (Jun 8, 2007)

Wow! I agree, I need to take S.G. readings more often. (And I will take that as a lesson when I begin my next batch, I think strawberry). The average temp of the must during primary fermentation was between 75 &amp; 80 deg F (room temp was between 72 &amp; 75 deg F). 

I racked today, and at the time of first time racking, the S.G. was 1.007 (wow!!????!?). Right before racking, I took a taste: very plastic, fizzy, and "alky" on the nose; thick, fizzy, slight sweetness, and alcohol on the palate. Unfortunately, it reminded me of a spiked punch. I know that I'm not tasting for a finished product but for seeking out the characteristics of a wine in development.

After racking into the carboy, particles did begin to settle to the bottom, but it was still extremely fizzy and the airlock bubbles every 5-7 seconds. I assume this is normal for the beginning of secondary fermentation.

I looked for the scent of vinegar since my first tracking was way late (supposed to rack at 1.030) and it was not apparent at all - still smelled like the wine in progress.

One question, I red that during racking you're supposed to add/dissolve a campden caplet per gallon but my recipe does not indicate this. Is this something I should be doing?

Any other tips for secondary fermentation? So many variations in procedures (second racking in one week vs three weeks, third racking in three weeks vs three months, etc...).

And... thanks everyone who's been following my rookie progress and offering assistance, I REALLY appreciate it!

-Nico


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## Cracked Cork (Jun 9, 2007)

Somewhere in there you missed the taste of yeasty which you should have. Sounds like you are having fun with this and learning fast, thats whats its all about, just think that you will finally get to bottle this, and then WAIT for it to be ready to drink  Crackedcork


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## scotty (Jun 9, 2007)

You do not ad the campden tabs to the carboy at the first racking from your primary fermenter because you WANT the fermentation to do well in the secondary. Sulfites at the first racking will usually slow or stop the fermentation. Wait till you are fully fermented and are racking off the lees. Use sorbate and sulfited right at the last of your degassing process. At least thats my method. I just try to do what i read in books and on this website. 


The other thing i have learned from this website is that i must drink more wine



*Edited by: scotty *


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## Waldo (Jun 9, 2007)

Scotty is correct nasv. After fermentation has stopped ( verified by the same SG reading 2 days in a row) you will need to stabilize and degass the wine after you have racked it off the lees.


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## nasv (Jun 10, 2007)

Sounds great! So based on your feedback combined with some reading on this site and books, after this first racking, I'll just "step away" for a while and let the secondary fermentation do it's magic. After maybe 5 days or so, I'll take a S.G. reading and then take it again the next day. As soon as I have two days in a row where the S.G. hasn't changed (or changed minimally), fermentation is done, I rack a second time. Once racked a second time, degass, add K-meta and K-sorbate, and make sure to top-off to limit air in the carboy. Then I simply bulk age for a while in that carboy and eventually bottle!

Let me know if I missed anything or if there are any corrections I should make





Thanks!


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## scotty (Jun 10, 2007)

I may have missed/forgotten some of your comments but do you have an airlock for the secondary. The bubble activity in the airlock can help you see when the fementation is slowing down.


BTW what did you use for a primary???


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## OldWino1 (Jun 10, 2007)

in my opinion be careful with bluk aging the wine has bo be of
bottlling ready and you really have to keep and eye on air lock
they willl dry out and you goose is cooked lost 5 gal of apple. I
knoe space ican be a problem but i think the wine likes the bottle for
aging and it has already gone through bottling shock.


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## Wade E (Jun 10, 2007)

What we usually do is (total process) ferment in primary bucket for
7-14 days depending on how long it takes to get the SG down to aroud
1.020 then rack into carboy. We let it finish fermenting in there for
however long it takes and like scotty says wait until airlock shows no
form of life. At that point we take an SG reading and depending on
which yeast we used and what the original SG was determine if it is
done.(Example) if You used Lalvin 1118 which will go upto 18% abv and
your starting SG was 1.090, your sg now should be around 0.990 or maybe
just a little higher but below 1.000. At this point we usually
stabilize and let sit for another 2 weeks. Then at this point there are
a few options. 

1) You could keep racking every 2 or 3 months until wine is very clear
and when doing this check the free SO2 and add when needed.



2( Depending on which clarifier you will use( some need all the
lees(sediment),either rack off sediment or not and add clarifier and
let sit for another 2 weeks.



After clear you can either rack off sediment into clean carboy and bulk age or bottle at this time.BULK age prefered.


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## OldWino1 (Jun 10, 2007)

My question is how long does it need to be in the 750 ml bottle
after bulk aging to rid it of bottle shock or you think there is no
bottle shock?


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## nasv (Jun 10, 2007)

scotty said:


> I may have missed/forgotten some of your comments but do you have an airlock for the secondary. The bubble activity in the airlock can help you see when the fementation is slowing down.
> 
> 
> BTW what did you use for a primary???



hey Scotty, i do have an airlock half filled with K-meta solution. The first day of secondary fermentation, it bubbled every 3-5 seconds, the next day it bubbled every 5-10 seconds. Today it is bubbling about every 20 seconds (just to give you an idea of the activity).

For primary fermentation, I used a 2 gallon bucket and I just set the lid on top (did not seal).

-Nico

*Edited by: nasv *


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## nasv (Jun 10, 2007)

wade said:


> What we usually do is (total process) ferment in primary bucket for
> 7-14 days depending on how long it takes to get the SG down to aroud
> 1.020 then rack into carboy. We let it finish fermenting in there for
> however long it takes and like scotty says wait until airlock shows no
> ...



Thanks for explaining your process, Wade. What you have mentioned here sounds like the path I'm taking. Quick question though, when you say you keep racking every 2-3 months and "check the free SO2 and add when needed" - what SO2 are you talking about? The sulfites? Like a campden tablet or k-meta? Or de-gassing?





Also, for clarifier, I have some pectic enzyme that I used and added to the initial must. Is this such a clarifying agent that you'd add again during racking?

Thanks again!
-Nico


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## Wade E (Jun 10, 2007)

Oldwino, being in a 750 bottle for approx. 1 month usually does it for
me but some are quicker and I have heard of a few taking longer due to
extreme situations like traveling in a car or air flight. 



Nasv, Im tlking about sulfites as you can can get a test kit
specifically designed to test the free sulfites(George sells the
Accuvin test which works awesome and is very easy). This test will tell
you if you even need to add more sulfites at all or maybe you just need
a little.



As for clarifier, I'm talking about SuperKleer which I believe to be
the best clarifier(besides time and gravity which is the cheapest and
most true method) The SuperKleer clarifier in my opinion works the best
and you dont need to transfer all the sediment(lees) with this product.
There are many other products out there such as Chitosan,
Sparkaloid,etc.


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## scotty (Jun 10, 2007)

nasv said:


> scotty said:
> 
> 
> > I may have missed/forgotten some of your comments but do you have an airlock for the secondary. The bubble activity in the airlock can help you see when the fementation is slowing down.
> ...


I like the2 gallon bucket as a primary for small batchesi use a piece of sanitized muslin and a large rubber band made of elastic purchased from a material store. I had one experience where i think vinegar bacteria got into a large batch of false wine i was trying to make. Flies i supose got on the fruit pressings i guess. Now i always make sure that my primaries have a cloth cover held tight with a rubber band of some sort.


It fun to watch the bubbles too


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## nasv (Jun 12, 2007)

quick quick question! As noted above, I recently racked from the primary to the secondary, and everything seems to be going well (even though my first racking was late @ 1.007 SG).

As to be expected in my air-locked carboy, the fermentation is dwindling and slowing and slowing, the airlock now bubbles every few minutes instead of every view seconds. There is now a nice separation between a clearer wine and a thick layer of "lees" at the bottom.

MY CURRENT QUESTION




:

How soon do I need to rack off the lees before it imparts an unfavorable taste/smell to the wine? Is this a question of days, weeks, months? The reason I ask is because I see the fermentation ending pretty soon and I will be out of town for about half a week. So I can either rush and rack before this weekend or rack toward the end of next week. If I can wait, I'd prefer to do so, but I just don't want to make the stupid mistake of leaving the wine sitting on top of the lees if such a lapse in time would be detrimental.

Thanks again, all!

-Nico


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## scotty (Jun 12, 2007)

I think the answer is dont rush. Im not sur but a month is ok. Someone else will give you a more exact answer. I would let it ferment out in the secondary before racking off the lees.


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## Waldo (Jun 12, 2007)

I agree with scotty, let er sit until fermentation has completely finished, making sure it is topped up with not too much airspace. A cople of weeks on the sediment will not hurt it but I wouldn't leave it much longer than that.


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## scotty (Jun 12, 2007)

Looks like I woke up earlier than you this morning Waldo


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## NorthernWinos (Jun 12, 2007)

Scotty...you probably hadn't been to bed yet...


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## scotty (Jun 12, 2007)

Northern Winos said:


> Scotty...you probably hadn't been to bed yet...




I now knowthat I will regret the day that i started to tease you


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## Danny (Jun 12, 2007)

Haven't posted in awhile, but recently cracked my first bottle of Blackberry wine made about 10 months ago --- WOW, it was as good or better than blackberry wine from a local winery. Gave a bottle to some close friends and they were amazed, too. 


Used a one gallon recipe with 3 lb. frozed blackberries and a quart of Welch's Grape Juice for added body. Sweetened it somewhat before bottling.


My only regret is that I only have 3 more bottles. At least I kept good records and should be able to duplicate. This time, though, I should have fresh blackberries as I now have a good crop growing in my back yard.


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## nasv (Jun 12, 2007)

Danny said:


> Haven't posted in awhile, but recently cracked my first bottle of Blackberry wine made about 10 months ago --- WOW, it was as good or better than blackberry wine from a local winery. Gave a bottle to some close friends and they were amazed, too.
> 
> 
> Used a one gallon recipe with 3 lb. frozed blackberries and a quart of Welch's Grape Juice for added body. Sweetened it somewhat before bottling.
> ...


That's awesome! I did mine from "fresh" blackberries (bought from local market grocery) and I hope it comes out as well as yours!

-Nico


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## nasv (Jun 26, 2007)

So, I recently did the second racking and took a SG reading (it was at about 0.885) and took a taste. The taste was, ummm, not so good. It seemed completely out of balance, no real fruit flavors involved, instead a real overpowering alcohol with some slighter "side" flavors. I'm not sure this is something that will mellow some later or if this is a batch that might need to be sweetened to make it more tolerable.

I recently started another batch of strawberry wine and I thought to start with a much lower specific gravity (1.075 instead of the blackberry 1.092). Hopefully this helps retain more of the fruit.

So, any ideas here with the blackberry wine? Should it be like this at this stage and will it develop some later? I'm really trying to make sure I pick up on any "lessons learned" so I know how to repeat and not repeat certain outcomes.

Thanks again for reading!!!!!!
-Nico


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## JWMINNESOTA (Jun 26, 2007)

Herein lies the greatest ingredient needed for winemaking...patience! Almost everything you make will not even resemble wine at this stage, more like jet fuel, age will bring the flavors forward and mellow the taste. Good move on the strawberry, as I have found lower alcohol content tends to help the fruits develop and retain flavor much faster. Bulk aging seems to move it to a palatable stage much sooner than bottling right away also.We tend to back sweeten ours a little if they were fermented to dry, that is a personal taste preference.


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## grapeman (Jun 26, 2007)

All the things stated above will improve your blackberry, but I have to ask- is that a typo-.885????? I've never heard of one going that low. If it is that low, can't be you adjusted for temperature, or if you did, it isn't quite right. It would more likely be .990-.998 when finished fermenting. The high alcohol will definitely mask the flavors. If it's finished - stabilize it after adding the correct K-Meta and sweeten it up a little to taste. Then age it about 4-6 months and then bottle it. Wait another 6 months and it will be hard to believe it is the same wine.


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## nasv (Jun 26, 2007)

appleman, good catch, adjusted for temperature it should be about exactly 0.990. When we took the SG reading, the hydrometer was "off the charts" (mostly under the wine), the 0.990 was just under the liquid, but adjusted for temperature, that should bring us back in the 0.990s, but very low.

I attempted a degass, but I don't think I got much of the CO2 out, I'm thinking of siphoning into primary fermenter (bucket) to really give it a good stir.

For sweetening, is this something that I should do sooner, or something that I could do as "bottling" approaches after a good 6 months of bulk aging?

I need to focus on the key ingredient: "Patience"!

Thanks again for the continued advice!
-Nico


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## JWMINNESOTA (Jun 26, 2007)

I would be a little leery of transferring to the bucket, you don't want to incorporate a lot of air into your wine at this point. Bulk aging will also help with degassing, Like a soda pop going flat with time. I start to sweeten after I know the wine is stabilized, maybe wait a week or so, for me anyways,and no chance of restarting a fermentation. A little at a time and taste in a day or so, you can always add more to taste, hard to take it back out.



Keep in mind the flavor is going to develop, my experience is it is really easy to over do with the sweetening, it can taste good now, and be too sweet after a little age and flavors come forward. From the sound of it you guys are doing really good, off to a great start! *Edited by: JWMINNESOTA *


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