# starting a small vinyard help



## Louie1277 (Mar 18, 2010)

Hello, 
Just wondering if you guys might help me out also. I would like to start my own vines at my home. I live out in Moreno valley, California. It would be nice to grow red and white wines. But First I would like to know what's good around my area.


Thank you,


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## AlFulchino (Mar 18, 2010)

Louie...tell us about your growing conditions.......soil type etc...lots of sun? what varieties u thinking of?


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## Louie1277 (Mar 19, 2010)

Thank you for the reply. Well my soil is soft and hard in some places. I do have a couple things growing there but will be clean out. The little hill side does get a lot of sun so that shouldn't be a problem. 


Now the whole varities of grapes I want that I really don't know. Just want to get started on growing them. I would like to make some white/red wine down the road. 


Other thing I read from someone posting on herethat certain zones are good for certain grapes. What would be good for my area? (Moreno Valley, CA)


Here are a couple pictures of the dirt and how big I woud like to have it. This picture is kind of old so some of the stuff has been cleaned out.


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## grapeman (Mar 19, 2010)

Lets see if rrawhide chimes in here for you louie. California has it's own set of situations. You pretty much need to buy your grapes from a supplier in Ca and there are many microclimates that influence choices. Saying that, I assume you could grow most vinifera varieties well where you are.


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## Louie1277 (Mar 19, 2010)

Is there a website of growers or if you know growers on here that I could look into? other thing I been donig research half the day at work and I came across this ... Can you tell me what you think about this? 


http://www.my-grape-vine.com/?hop=daldacus




I would like to learn from the bottom up and this seems like good information.


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## AlFulchino (Mar 19, 2010)

Louie are you your own boss?  or is the research being done on company time  

i am adding to what Rich rightly has already said......what you are attempting can be rushed...you can do it all this yr...but...i would not do that 

believe it or not...this year is best used for what you are now doing....researching....you want to get this all done right....choosing varieties that will grow in your area...ones that actually produce a wine that YOU will greatly enjoy...because there will be significant effort in this project

aside from research, you CAN this year get a trellis built....soil amended and prepped

as far as planting grapes..i know this..where i live i dont want to plant after june 10...just not worth it in my area..i assume CA and your area has its deadlines as well

dont forget to taste as many varietals as you can get to verify what you really personally enjoy


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## grapeman (Mar 19, 2010)

This looks pretty much like snakeoil to me. First off, Thompsons seedless grapes aren't a quality wine grape. Can you get 42 pounds of grapes per vine- sure, but not if you want to make a good wine from them. I would save my money and put it towards the proper vines once we make the determination of what will do well there. 




We will gladly help you here, but there are limited growers from California here. There is another forum named WinePress where there are a lot of amateur to professional growers from Ca that might help you more, but they can be a bit cranky and nasty at times. If you are willing to deal with that, then just google it and you can easily find it. 


RRawhide is fron Ca and would likely be able to help you, but we aren't all here all the time so it might take a while to get a response from him. You could try a PM message and see what he thinks.


Good luck.


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## OilnH2O (Mar 22, 2010)

Louie and Ashley -- what's happening! Did rrawhide ever check in?

A new vineyard is an interesting topic and one that lots of us here enjoy, since several of us have taken a similar plunge in the back yard. Keep us posted!


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## AlFulchino (Mar 22, 2010)

i think Rick is going full tilt w his new vineyard venture


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## Louie1277 (Mar 23, 2010)

No rrawhide never email me back with questions I sent him. Like you said he might be to busy or something. If there is any way you could contact him or something that would be great. 






***appleman*** I was checking out that other forum you told me about seems like the guy that takes care of the board started like me. We will see if I could get some ideas or something. 


Thanks everyone for helping me out. Like I said before it's been a long year doing research and I feel likei have not done anything. Feel lost and confuse sometime on what kind of vines I should grow..


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## Louie1277 (Mar 23, 2010)

ONe more thing what do you guys think about this book 


The Grape Grower




http://www.amazon.com/dp/1890132829/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Louie1277 (Mar 23, 2010)

Appleman... I was able to find out what my zone was. 



<LI>*Zone: 8B*</LI>
<LI>*City:* MORENO VALLEY</LI>
<LI>*State:* CA</LI>


Now I need to find out what grapes work around that area.


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## grapeman (Mar 23, 2010)

The Grape Grower is a good book. Vines to Wines by Jeff Cox is also a good book.


Most Vinifera grapes will do good in the zone, not too hot or cold. Check this chart at Double A Vineyards for variety descriptions and zones. The numers listed are for the coldest they can take so a zone 6,7,8 would all do well in zone 8. Double A can't sell to you in Ca, but once you find out what you want to grow, then you can try to find some. 


Hope this helps you out a little bit.


http://www.rakgrape.com/pdf_files/2009-2010-VineVariety.pdf


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## OilnH2O (Mar 23, 2010)

Louie1277 -
As Rich says, the Grape Grower is a good book, but if you check on Amazon the other book -- Jeff Cox's _From Vines to Wines_ is very comprehensive and can tell you everything from starting a new backyard plot to making wine in the meantime. It really is a good reference.

Another reference you can check on-line is http://www.winemakermag.com/ WineMaker magazine -- the magazine has lots of back issues that you can search on-line and has a great column on "Backyard Vinyards" which has lots of information. See http://www.winemakermag.com/stories/grapes for a list of some of them. Many of the back columns you can access on-line.

You also can look at some of the different threads on this part of the forum -- there really is lots of information. For example, my first year I tried to start some vines on my deck in flower pots... it didn't go so well but you can clearly get that from just looking through my "Missoula Vinyard" thread. There are several other threads on the site where people did have better luck trying to grow a vine or two that way -- but not me!





And you are close to a bunch of vinyards in the Temecula valley -- a Sunday drive can get you close to them and you might -- literally -- visit one that has tastings among their fields and ask at the tasting bar to talk to one of the people who actually work in the vinyard. Tell them where you live, what you want to do, and that you're looking at (from what I can tell by the red lines on your backyard pictures) "trying to grow" a couple rows of about 20 vines each just as a hobby -- and "what would you plant?"

And, PM me or any of the other folks here with any specific questions -- we'll be glad to help you out. I know Montana isn't California, but digging holes in the ground is the same anywhere! 

Bottom line: don't hesitate to ask!





Dave
ps -- ask your wife if she likes "red, or white" and plant some vines of what she likes. That way it becomes a partnership! And believe me, a couple of years from now when those vines are dripping with grape clusters, and you say, _"Honey, I've been looking at picking up a small crusher-destemmer..."_ you WILL need her then as your partner, Pardner! (as Waldo would put it!)


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## xanxer82 (Mar 24, 2010)

Been using Jeff Cox's book From Vines to Wines to streamline my business plan. Very comprehensive book. Like others have said about that first link you posted, SNAKEOIL.
Keep us updated. These guys have a lot of knowledge.


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## Louie1277 (Mar 24, 2010)

Thank you for all the good advice. I think I'm going to buy the book and see how everythng goes. I guess the hard part is finding someone to buy them from in California and what kind of vines I want to plant. 


I guess what I really would like to know is which vines would be easy to grow for a first timer that I could turn into wine down the road. Red or white wine. 


The whole trip to Temecula valley I will have to ask my wife since she is not a wine drinker see if she would be interested in going. 


It's sucks trying to learn something new all the time.Once I know it I will be very HAPPY!!



I did it.


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## AlFulchino (Mar 24, 2010)

Lou...you cant read enough...thats for sure...but this all has to be counter balanced w remembering to taste enough varieties....and remembering to enjoy the whole journey has to have some fun in it...spread out your plan and one day about 3-5 years from now you will look back and really be able to see how far you have travelled


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## grapeman (Mar 25, 2010)

I see someone at the other site has it costing $400 to trellis your 7- 40 foot rows. It should cost about half that.


You need 3 posts per row x 7= 21 at about $7 per or $147. Wire is around $50 for high tensile 1000ft-enough for 3 wires and then maybe some tighteners at about $2.50 each. You don't really need earth anchors for that short run.


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## Louie1277 (Mar 25, 2010)

Tonight I think I will measure the little hill I have and see what I need, plus how many I will have. Should I first do that then figure out what vines I will be buying?


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## grapeman (Mar 25, 2010)

You need to know what size you have to work with. That will let you know if you have room for that many rows- it looks too small to me for 7 rows. Once you know how many rows you have, then you can see how many will fit.


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## AlFulchino (Mar 25, 2010)

factor in the sun orientation...aside from soil preparation i would say only the choice of your varieties is as important....then come trellis 

factor in whether you will be using a tractor for spraying etc(maybe a lawn tractor w a pull along sprayer(?)) and what that hill would do...a back pack sprayer would be ok for a small amount of vines....

if you are able, i would find someone near you that has vines and is competent...and would let you drop by once per week during the growing season to pick up the rythym (sp?)


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## rrawhide (Mar 26, 2010)

Hey all - rrawhide here - just read all your threads on this new vineyard and I am sorry - i just saw it!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, if I can help please let me know. My email address is [email protected].

There is a great resourse for grape vines: www.vintagenurseries.com/. They have lots of info for you re climate and what grows for your area. It depends what you would like to accomplish - what kind of wine you want to make. In a hot dry climate - merlot and syrah do well. But also, Barbera and Sangaviose. Be kinda interesting if you could get something different and make some unusual great wines.

Here is another good resource www.mypersonalvineyard.com/default.asp and if you really want more info www.winebusiness.com/.

please pm me or email me and I'll share whatever I know with you. I do have some extra syrah and merlot and a few petite syrah cuttings I can send you if you want.

advise

rrawhide


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## rrawhide (Mar 27, 2010)

thanx for your pm - we will get you covered as soon as i can,

rrawhide


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## Louie1277 (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks again for ur help... I will get my soil read and make sure I have everything ready... Question so I need to buy those little covers to wrap them after I plant them?


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## rrawhide (Mar 30, 2010)

Hi Louie

Coming your way today - - - -

I do put Blue-x tubes on mine but you can use any kind or none - up to you.

rrawhide


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## Louie1277 (Mar 30, 2010)

thank you so much ... I just replied to your pm... You answered my question hahhaha. Thank you once again, and I will take pictures of them. 

Been cleaning my area little by little. Guess now I will have to start building the trellis for them.


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