# Type of sugar



## Charlietuna (May 30, 2011)

Hello,
I have been reading now for a month or so & have just started my wine making journey. My first (of many) qustions is about sugar.

I've been told by a local wine maker that the kind of sugar you use is important. Regular sugar(beat sugar) only ferments out to ~65%, pure cane sugar to ~ 85% & corn sugar to 95%. 

I've tried to search the forum, but have not found any information on this. Also, recipes do not specify which sugar to use. Could someone please direct me to some information or post a reply to help me understand this a bit better.

Thanks
Brian


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## Tom (May 30, 2011)

I use regular sugar. Best to invert the sugar before adding. this will ferment dry. Not sure where you got that info


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## Mike93YJ (May 30, 2011)

I thought there was no difference between beet sugar and cane sugar, that chemically they're the same.


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## deboard (May 30, 2011)

Both Cane sugar and Beet sugar are sucrose. I think by the time refining is done they are pretty close to the same % pure sucrose. I've used both and never noticed a difference.

Corn syrup is a different animal though. There can be multiple kinds of sugars in it: glucose and/or dextrose. There can also be fructose (high fructose corn syrup). I've never used corn syrup, but it is different. Now whether the yeast likes it more or less I don't know. I do know that people use it and have success. In the end you still have a SG that is pretty near to dry, so your alcohol will be there. I would imagine different kinds of sugars affecting flavors slightly, but not alcohol.


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## K5MOW (May 30, 2011)

Tom said:


> I use regular sugar. Best to invert the sugar before adding. this will ferment dry. Not sure where you got that info



I would like to ask what dose this meen. How do you invert the sugar.

Thanks Roger
K5MOW


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## Mike93YJ (May 30, 2011)

Make invert sugar by adding your 16 cups sugar to a large stainless cooking pot along with 8 cups water and 1/3 cup lemon juice. Stir sugar to dissolve and heat to just below boiling while stirring. Hold at this temperature for about 30 minutes. Allow to cool slightly and pour it into your primary.

Inverted or invert sugar syrup is a mixture of glucose and fructose; it is obtained by splitting sucrose into these two components. Compared with its precursor, sucrose, inverted sugar is sweeter.


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## sly22guy (May 30, 2011)

Corn sugar doesn't impart different flavors either. Invert Sugar= two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar


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## BobF (May 31, 2011)

deboard said:


> Most sugar beets grown in the US are genetically modified to contain the weed killer known commercially as Roundup. Theoretically not much should get in the end product, and the chemical itself is not processed by people. If that's the kind of thing that bothers you then you can stick to other sugars.


 
That doesn't sound correct. I know there are many crops that are genetically modified to be glyphosate tolerant, but that is different from actually containing glyphosate. These are known as "Roundup Ready".

The idea is that when young (prior to canopy development), they are tolerant to being sprayed with glyphosate so that weeds can be killed without injuring the plants.

If beets are in fact modified to *contain* glyphosate, I would like to read about it. Got a link or reference handy? I love to learn new stuff!


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## Charlietuna (May 31, 2011)

*Interesting*

Thank you for the replys. It is interesting, this gentleman has mentioned more than once that he believes the type of sugar is important. Stating the specifications I mentioned earlier of frementation percentages. But, obviously from this forums input, it is not.

Thank you,
Brian


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## reefman (May 31, 2011)

There's a good test for someone to take on. Make wine from the same ingrediants, using the different sugars, and report findings!


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## reefman (May 31, 2011)

The more I though about this, didn't Luc (Dutch Winemaker) already do some sugar experiments?


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## Luc (May 31, 2011)

Charlietuna said:


> Regular sugar(beat sugar) only ferments out to ~65%, pure cane sugar to ~ 85% & corn sugar to 95%.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Brian



Pure nonsence.

Beet sugar will certainly ferment dry.

Yeast produce themselves an enzyme that is called invertase that will break up sucrose in the components fructose and glucose.
Both are transformed by yeast into alcohol.

By making invert sugar by adding water and some citric acid to sugar and heating it up for about 15 minutes you will only do what the yeast can do themselves, only you take away some of the effort for the yeast.

Wether you invert the sugar or not that is a matter of personal preference. I never do it myself.

However getting back to the main issue: yeast will certainly ferment beet sugar totally.

Luc


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## roblloyd (May 31, 2011)

Good to know. From now on I'll just dissolve it and not make it invert (and not have something else to clean).


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## sly22guy (May 31, 2011)

When i initially start a batch of wine that i need to add sugar to to get a certain sg i do not invert it just add it to the must. 

If i am back sweetening i will make a simple syrup to add. (2 parts sugar & 1 part liquid) usually the liquid is the wine but on occasions when i know i will need extra to top up i will use water or juice.


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## Charlietuna (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks again for the replys. It's good information to have. Cane sugar was / is more pricy so it'll save me a few bucks a batch. 

Brian


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## deboard (Jun 1, 2011)

BobF said:


> That doesn't sound correct. I know there are many crops that are genetically modified to be glyphosate tolerant, but that is different from actually containing glyphosate. These are known as "Roundup Ready".
> 
> The idea is that when young (prior to canopy development), they are tolerant to being sprayed with glyphosate so that weeds can be killed without injuring the plants.
> 
> If beets are in fact modified to *contain* glyphosate, I would like to read about it. Got a link or reference handy? I love to learn new stuff!



You are correct, I read that wrong. Very sorry, I just re-read the article and I must have been drinking the first time. Thank for the correction. *contain* should be *resistant to*. The point is the same though, beet sugar is the same as cane sugar more or less.


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## Stefani (Aug 7, 2011)

Per http://www.cascadiabrew.com/winekit.htm:

"While invert sugar is great for baking, and may be needed in “country wines” made with strawberries or dandelions, it has no place in good quality vinifera wines. Invert sugar will make your wine taste thin and give it a “tart” aftertaste."

Has anyone noticed wine made with inverted sugar to be thin and have a tart after taste?


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## Daisy317 (Aug 7, 2011)

reefman said:


> There's a good test for someone to take on. Make wine from the same ingrediants, using the different sugars, and report findings!



I second this! I'm in!


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## Stefani (Aug 7, 2011)

To do a sugar comparison correctly, a must must be mixed with all the ingredients according to the recipe without any sugar. Then then the must is divided and then each type of sugar is added to each portion to the correct SG. 

Right?

Ohh if I only had a couple of extra gallon carboys...


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## Daisy317 (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm planning to use 2, 2 gallon batches made from juice concentrate and boost the sg with corn or table sugar batches. I'm also going to split each batch down to one gallon. One gallon of each will be fermented to dry and then each type will be back sweetened with the respective sugars to see if there is a taste difference.

The buckets will go side by side and the same yeast will be used. This should eliminate variables such as temperature, humidity, etc. Any other suggestions for scientific soundness?


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## Stefani (Aug 7, 2011)

So does that mean you will have two gallon made of each sugars, where each type of sugar with have a gallon of dry and gallon of sweet?

Or would you make 2 gallons of a white and 2 gallons of a red?

This is interesting!

I curious what would be the juice base?


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## Daisy317 (Aug 7, 2011)

Stefani said:


> So does that mean you will have two gallon made of each sugars, where each type of sugar with have a gallon of dry and gallon of sweet?
> 
> Or would you make 2 gallons of a white and 2 gallons of a red?
> 
> ...



I plan to ferment 2 gallons of each type of sugar down to dry. Then split the batches into 2 1 gallon batches each (which will give me 4 one gallon batches)

Then I will have one sweet and one dry of corn and cane sugar. That should show any differences in the sugars at different parts of the wine making process.

I haven't really thought of what the base should be. Suggestions from the peanut gallery?


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## sly22guy (Aug 8, 2011)

Apfelwien is a good choice. First batch i did with Dextrose the second batch i did with reg sugar haven't tried the second batch yet but still have bottles of the first to compare.


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## Midwest Vintner (Aug 9, 2011)

Best thing about inverted sugar is that it's easier to stir in. We now use pectic enzyme in liquid form too. It helps since we've gone bigger than carboys.


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