# catawba not fermenting....



## countrygirl (Sep 30, 2011)

crushed my catawba sun night, pitched L 1122 monday night. there has been no activity. s.g. 1.074 and still the same this morning (more than 3 days later)
here is where i might have gone wrong....i put a bag of skins in for a day and half or so, i wanted to make sure to get some pink color...did i remove my yeast when i removed the bag? i think i'm gonna pitch another L1122 tonight as a starter if the s.g. is the same...just looking for feedback.
( i did use yeast nutrient and pectin, but no extra sugar)


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## naperwineguy (Sep 30, 2011)

What is your must's pH and TA? And what is your must temperature?


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## countrygirl (Sep 30, 2011)

i have no ph test kit, i do have an acid kit, but did not check it. catawba is known to be pretty acidic, right? it smells and tastes good, but i see no sign of fermentation...


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 30, 2011)

What is the current temp of the must?

How many gallons are you doing?


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## naperwineguy (Sep 30, 2011)

Yes - but the yeast strain you chose should be suitable for it. I would check your yeast rehydration methods, and in particular insure your must temps are within range specified by the manufacturer. I highly doubt all of the yeast cells congregated in your skin pack and were removed when you took it out. The 71B-1122 strain is a quick starter, so if you've seen no activity what-so-ever, I would assume you committed a mass suicide of your yeast cells when you pitched them into your must.

p.s. - invest in a pH monitor! Highly valuable tool for making wine, especially from fresh grapes. Those pH test strips are crap as are the acid test kits.


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## countrygirl (Sep 30, 2011)

naperwineguy said:


> Yes - but the yeast strain you chose should be suitable for it. I would check your yeast rehydration methods, and in particular insure your must temps are within range specified by the manufacturer. I highly doubt all of the yeast cells congregated in your skin pack and were removed when you took it out. The 71B-1122 strain is a quick starter, so if you've seen no activity what-so-ever, I would assume you committed a mass suicide of your yeast cells when you pitched them into your must.
> 
> p.s. - invest in a pH monitor! Highly valuable tool for making wine, especially from fresh grapes. Those pH test strips are crap as are the acid test kits.



john and naper...5 gallons of pure catawba juice, no water added. room temp. 72-73 degrees. so maybe too cool?
i will check into getting a ph monitor, no strips 
i will check the acid tonight, too...
thanks guys


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## naperwineguy (Sep 30, 2011)

countrygirl said:


> room temp. 72-73 degrees. so maybe too cool?



Nope - if anything, not cool enough for a white/rose type wine, but certainly within the specs of the yeast strain. 

I would definetly check the wine's pH - if too acidic, the yeast will not perform well, if at all.

Also again, you should look at how you introduce your yeast into your must, along with the additions of yeast nutrients. 

Here are a few links to various methods of preparing a yeast starter:

http://www.grapestompers.com/articles/rehydrate_yeast.htm
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/yeast.asp
http://www.morebeer.com/public/pdf/whydra.pdf


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## Lopez (Sep 30, 2011)

Always check the exp. date on the yeast as well. I've received a couple that were grossly expired. Did you sulfite? If so, how much?

Use a themometer when hydrating the yeast. I use a Rehydration nutrient as well. Yeast starts bubbling in the hydration bowl in a couple minutes.


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 30, 2011)

countrygirl said:


> john and naper...5 gallons of pure catawba juice, no water added. room temp. 72-73 degrees. so maybe too cool?
> i will check into getting a ph monitor, no strips
> i will check the acid tonight, too...
> thanks guys



Can u take the temp of the must? That might be different that the ambient temperature.

I used that same yeast on my vidal and seyval wines - I started with the must temp around 65* - keep in mind it was slow - but that is what i wanted.

You can kick it off around 75* and once it is going slowly bring it down - if you have the means to do that.

Expiration date can have an effect - but I am thinking that your yeast is probably about 6 months old if that.

You might not have properly started the yeast either. I have had that happen before - i just pitched another packet - worked just fine.


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## countrygirl (Sep 30, 2011)

thanks for links naper, i had looked on jackkeller, while surfiing for making a starter. (not sure why i do, i always wind up back here
i've always sprinkled my yeast...i've made a starter just once or twice when i've had a difficult start. this is just my second batch with fresh pressed grapes...



naperwineguy said:


> Nope - if anything, not cool enough for a white/rose type wine, but certainly within the specs of the yeast strain.
> 
> I would definetly check the wine's pH - if too acidic, the yeast will not perform well, if at all.
> 
> ...


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## countrygirl (Sep 30, 2011)

all my yeast is within time, but i did have a couple packs that exp. this december....i added the recommended amount of kmeta sunday night and sprinkled the yeast monday night.

i have to confess, i have no thermometer, lol, i broke it earlier this year while making my triple berry blend, lol lol



Lopez said:


> Always check the exp. date on the yeast as well. I've received a couple that were grossly expired. Did you sulfite? If so, how much?
> 
> Use a themometer when hydrating the yeast. I use a Rehydration nutrient as well. Yeast starts bubbling in the hydration bowl in a couple minutes.


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## naperwineguy (Sep 30, 2011)

countrygirl said:


> i have to confess, i have no thermometer, lol, i broke it earlier this year while making my triple berry blend, lol lol



Sounds as if someone is due for a trip to the LHBS!


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## robie (Sep 30, 2011)

I always prepare a yeast starter, if for no other reason to determine if the packet of yeast are still viable. With a starter, you will know within 20 minutes if the yeast are still viable, so you won't have to wait and hope for several days.


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## countrygirl (Sep 30, 2011)

naper, you are sooo right, lol...i actually just found out about a distillery that is about an hour from me, that is starting to carry winemaking supplies! i am sooo excited, and i am going saturday 10/8 (payday, lol). and robie, you are right, too. i have learned my lesson, i will always do a starter now, it's just too gut wrenching when you realize it's not going! i've (mostly) been blessed with such vigorous fermentations, but this is NOT the one i want to mess up! my blackberry was pitched on tuesday and let me tell you, it is ALIVE, lol!


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## robie (Sep 30, 2011)

countrygirl said:


> naper, you are sooo right, lol...i actually just found out about a distillery that is about an hour from me, that is starting to carry winemaking supplies! i am sooo excited, and i am going saturday 10/8 (payday, lol). and robie, you are right, too. i have learned my lesson, i will always do a starter now, it's just too gut wrenching when you realize it's not going! i've (mostly) been blessed with such vigorous fermentations, but this is NOT the one i want to mess up! my blackberry was pitched on tuesday and let me tell you, it is ALIVE, lol!



Good! At least with a starter, youk now right up front if the yeast, themselves, are the problem. If the starter is good, you can look elsewhere for the problem. Maybe something else eventually killed off the yeast, but at least you will know they gave their all.

As a side, I'm in Colorado; if I order things through The Winemaker's Toy Store (Dallas, Tx), like on Monday, I get the order by Thursday. I don't recollect where you are but it should be similar.


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## grapeman (Sep 30, 2011)

Just a thought here......... What yeast did you use for the blackberry? If it is the same as the catawba, take a cup of the blackberry and pitch it in the Catawba. I do this often and innoculate one batch with the previous. It takes off much quicker and the little cross batch fruit is of no consequence.


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## countrygirl (Dec 18, 2011)

didn't think about that idea grapeman...did the starter and all went well. definite two different yeasts. catawba has done great, even clearing decently. tasted great at the last racking. i think it is going to have a residual sweetness.


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