# Please be careful with weed killers on lawns



## grapeman (May 10, 2015)

This morning I went out scouting the three vineyards for the growth stage of the vines to determine when to apply the first fungicide of the season. As I approached the last vineyard behind someone who bought the house from my sister when I planted the vineyard, I saw him driving a lawn tractor pulling a broadcast sprayer. A quick look of the lawn and seeing a few dandelion flowers, I suspected he was applying an herbicide probably containing 2,4-D which is highly toxic to grapes. He was just finishing up so I approached him cordially and asked if he was spraying for dandelions. Yes he said and clover too. He had this really great herbicide called Trimec he got from Tractor Supply. I knew right there that my suspicions were correct. I told him about 2,4-D being very toxic to grapes even a half mile away. He sprayed within 20 feet of my vines. I asked if I could see the spray container and I would show him how to check what chemicals were in it. He agreed and I showed him that the main ingredient is ineed 2,4-D and it has two other active chemicals. One of them is also Dicamba, which is another growth regulator spray and also causes a lot of injury to grapes.

I should be able to tell in the next couple weeks if there was any volatilization and drift into the vineyard. If there was there will be injury as this is the most susceptible time for grapes. 

So my point in saying all this is too warn all you landowners that want a nice green lush lawn that you need to be responsible (and legally are) for what you spray and the consequencies of it. Their dandelion free lawn could cost me $ 50,000 and if so may affect them.


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## Julie (May 10, 2015)

Thanks for the post Rich. I don't have the container here but I was wondering if you knew off hand about 3 month Roundup, does it contain the 2,4-D?


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## grapeman (May 10, 2015)

There are so many products you reallyh have to read the label. Look under the part that shows active ingredients. Roundup contains glyphosate as it's active ingredient and may also contain a surfactant to help spread it on the leaf surface. The extended control formulations generally contain an herbicide with residual activity. If you see anything with 2,4-D in it, don't use it on your property if you or neighbors have grapes.

The neighbor I have will undoubtedly lose their vines on their arbor that had looked really good this year. They are right in the middle of the lawn and he sprayed all around them.


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## Runningwolf (May 10, 2015)

So the neighbor was ok with the info you gave him? So many idots out there would tell you to mind your own business (which it is) that it's their own property. Sounds like you might have a uniformed, responsible neighbor.


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## grapeman (May 10, 2015)

Dan I try to be polite with neighbors but it can be hard. This same guy I had to inform that the last two rows of raspberries weren't on his land. He asked if he needed to take them out, but I said no. Next up he made shrubs out of two white pine trees on the right of way between the two properties (owned by the farm, not him). The perennial bed has crept almost 10 feet over the line and the latest before today was adding fill to level an area, up to and spilling ove the property line. I have been told he is going to put up a building on it. Our town has a 15 foot side setback on all lots restricting building to no closer than 15 feet to the property line. If he starts building there, he will find that the Codes Enforcement Officer will make him remove it. By the way, I did up the Codes guy's house plans for him earlier this spring.

Time will tell how responsible he is.


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## Runningwolf (May 10, 2015)

Funny how people can justify in their own heads what they are doing is ok and others won't mind.


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## GreginND (May 10, 2015)

This is a constant worry for me. I'm surrounded by $Millions in soybean fields. Up until now they have been planting round-up ready GMO soybeans and I've seen a few problems with glyphosate damage on my vines. Now the dicamba-ready soybeans have been approved I am very worried all my efforts may be for naught. Law or not it is very difficult to prove where the drift was from as it can travel a mile or more on a windy day. And my little vineyard is nothing compared to the mega farms around me.


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## Angelina (May 10, 2015)

I would have cried, and my day would have been ruined with worry. I have first year grapes right now and I'm glad I have great neighbour's that understand, and also believes in doing things as organically as we can.
Grapeman I hope for the best that your vines are unscathed!!!


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## barbiek (May 10, 2015)

Rich I seen a piece of paper from a distance and I went over to pick it up and it was a small warning : Lawn chemical application keep off / abutting residents may receive advance notice It has a circle with a slash through an adult with a child and a pet I brought it in to call them to see which neighbor received the lawn care and exactly what was applied I'm hoping its nothing to be concerned about cuz my vines are doing awesome! I just applied a lil neem oil to get a jump on things I just planted some more vines by the other neighbors the ones that enjoy my wine lol but the ones I'm concerned about I can take a full crop from this year! And it seems like I've been waiting FOREVER!I think they should ban 2,4-D Make dandelion wine! And as far as abutting residents may receive notice I never received notice! And my vines are very noticeable from the neighbors lawn. Im glad you posted this I'm so sorry for your loss there has to be something you can do about this! Keep us informed please, my condolences


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## mgmarty (May 10, 2015)

Here's what it looks like gentlemen. My neighbor gets a good weed killer from the power company, and sprays our fence line with it. The whole row along the fence line looks like this. 

Taken two days ago.


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## garymc (May 11, 2015)

My vineyard is also surrounded by rowcrop farms. I know my neighbors try to be careful, but 2,4,d is just not easily controlled. I knew when I put my grapes in that chemical damage would likely be a problem. Both of the last 2 years I've had slight chemical damage. And with the two severe winters back to back, my muscadines died down almost to the ground. In my back yard in town all the vines started leafing out this spring, 9 big vines. Then the railroad, which adjoins the back of my property sprayed. 4 of the 9 vines have lost their leaves and a 5th one has leaves wilting. One of the pictures shows the vine with healthy looking leaves up on top of the arbor and the other picture shows the wilting leaves in front of my hand. Two canes on the vine are wilting and the rest of the vine looked good last time I saw it.


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## vernsgal (May 11, 2015)

Wow, Grapeman I hope you come out of this unscathed and that your new neighbor becomes educated before damage is done to others.

garymc that's just sad!

We too are now finding ourselves having to deal with what I'm hoping is just ignorance with new neighbors in what they're doing.We 're not commercial but we do have some fruit trees, bushes and grapevines that may become "damaged". 

Hopefully in time everyone will learn the hazards of sprays etc. and will find an earth friendly cure.


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## barbiek (May 11, 2015)

barbiek said:


> Rich I seen a piece of paper from a distance and I went over to pick it up and it was a small warning : Lawn chemical application keep off / abutting residents may receive advance notice It has a circle with a slash through an adult with a child and a pet I brought it in to call them to see which neighbor received the lawn care and exactly what was applied I'm hoping its nothing to be concerned about cuz my vines are doing awesome! I just applied a lil neem oil to get a jump on things I just planted some more vines by the other neighbors the ones that enjoy my wine lol but the ones I'm concerned about I can take a full crop from this year! And it seems like I've been waiting FOREVER!I think they should ban 2,4-D Make dandelion wine! And as far as abutting residents may receive notice I never received notice! And my vines are very noticeable from the neighbors lawn. Im glad you posted this I'm so sorry for your loss there has to be something you can do about this! Keep us informed please, my condolences




I phoned the lawn care today and thank goodness l was so relieved to find out that it was just fertilizer they applied! And I found out that it blew a full mile down the road!


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## rpdranc (May 12, 2015)

I had same concern I was given this advice when I offered to spray my neighbors 10 acres with an alternative to 2,4-d he normally uses..."There are a number of lawn herbicides that contain the amine (salt) form of 2,4-D that are not as bad as the ester (volatile) forms. Most of the common “tri” lawn herbicides also contain MCPP and dicamba. All those herbicides could injury grapes if applied directly around the vines, but most of the time they can be safely used so long as some distance is maintained. Timing is critical. Apply them in the fall when the grapes are not sensitive, or early spring before the grapes bud out. Fall applications are generally best for controlling weeds anyway. There are many others and I don’t know them all. And most of them will damage sensitive plants just as 2,4-D might. I suggest you check out the Purdue Turf website for more info. 
https://ag.purdue.edu/hla/Extension/Pages/Home.aspx"


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## mgmarty (May 30, 2015)

Three year old Boco Noir vines got hit pretty hard with 2-4-D. My neighbor says he won't use it anymore. Now, will my vines survive? Should I remove all the clusters? Change there water schedule? Any advice would be nice. Thanks


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## grapeman (May 30, 2015)

I don't really have any set information for you. Not sure if it exists. Tim Martinson from Cornell (head grape extension person) called yesterday to check on ours. We still aren't sure of the exact damage, but the little embryonic clusters are looking malformed on some varieties. My son Rick showed me some of the Mars which are right next to the lawn that was sprayed. The shoots look pretty normal, but the leaves are somewhat misshapen. The little grape clusters have a lot of blind areas on them with no flower buds. He says the Adalmiina are even worse. We use those to pollinate the St. Pepin so hopefully they shed enough pollen to do their job. I will try to update this as we get more information on them.


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## mgmarty (May 31, 2015)

Thank you. I'm going to remove all the clusters, and cross my fingers for next year.


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## garymc (Aug 17, 2015)

So, Grapeman, how did the chemical damage pan out?


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## grapeman (Aug 18, 2015)

Thamkfully it turned out to be ninimal this time,


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## garymc (Aug 18, 2015)

Well, I think my suspicion of the railroad spraying was wrong. I think the branch of the above vine that did die was a winter damage problem.


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## Dave Weid (Apr 30, 2018)

Help! My five-year-old Perlette grape vine's leaves are wilting. They began budding a month ago and everything appeared to be going well, when one branch's leaves were all wilting. Now the problem has spread to a nearby branch. Any ideas what could be wrong?


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