# Late Harvest Grapes/Wines



## BonnieJoy (Oct 23, 2010)

I have some Vignoles with 38 BRIX &amp; 2.34 TA. I'll be using a yeastw/ 14% alcohol toxicity.Theoretically, there should be 12% RS after fermentation. I'm considering ameliorationto drop TA by .5 before pitching the yeast. That would require adding 2 gallons ofchapatalized water.Does anyone have experience with Late Harvest grapes? What are you're thoughts on this starting BRIX:TA ratio?


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## Runningwolf (Oct 23, 2010)

I am currently making the exact same thing with juice I bought at 38 brix. I just added champagne yeast and let er go!


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## AAADiamond (Oct 29, 2010)

Did you mean 28 brix because a 24.5 brix will get you around a 14% alcohol finish?


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2010)

AAADiamond said:


> Did you mean 28 brix because a 24.5 brix will get you around a 14% alcohol finish?








38 brix


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## AAADiamond (Oct 29, 2010)

Wow, in that case I would add water and would have used Lavlin 71B to consume some acid!


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## grapeman (Oct 29, 2010)

Did you get this one going yet Bonnie Joy? I wouldn't cut it with water. That is high acid, but you want a fair amount the counter the residual sugar. I would make a yeast starter to get it to kick off OK. Keep us updated.


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## BonnieJoy (Oct 29, 2010)

This is juicefrom Walkers - so I didn't need to be in a hurry to get it started





I found some data on Brehm Vineyards site under Botrytised &amp; Late Harvest Grapes. This is a consolidated version of suggestions on 3 different "sold out" offerings:


Their harvest numbers werearound .8 - 1.0 g/100ml TA and they recommend using a LOW alcohol tolerance yeast to finish the winewith some RS. If theBRIX is lower than32, they suggest chapatalizing. One of the varieties only had .6 g/100ml TA &amp; they suggested goosing the Tartaric up to balance its 33.8 BRIX sugars.


I saw a post on the forum for reducing acids before fementation thatI'll bone up on before letting her rip. Per AAA Diamond's suggestion, I'll use 71B yeast for 3 reasons: to reduce the Malic; itfinishes @ about 14% alcohol; andI want floral esthers.


Here's the link to that information:


http://www.brehmvineyards.com/grapes/bot.html


Running Wolf - please keep us posted on the results with your bucket of LH Vignoles.That high acidity maybe needed to balance our 38 BRIX.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2010)

I will do so. I have rack it all to secondaries. I have two three gallon carboys with different types of chocolate in each one. I also have 7 gallons in another carboy. I will keep them there for about 28 days before stabilizing. Bonnie where are you locate that you got this from Walkers. 



Incidently, I tasted this before purchasing it and i think its even better then their Late Harvest Vidal last year. Thisis what I have going currently from Walkers.
*Primary
*7 gal Vidal
7 gal Blackberry/Isabella
7 gal Labrusca
7 gal Catawba

*Carboys*
6 gal Late Harvest Vignoles w/ chocolate
7 gal Late Harvest Vignoles
7 Gal Niagara 4B
7 Gal Cayuga 4B
6 gal Traminette
14 gal Vignoles
7 gal Steuben
7 gal Diamond 3B
7 gal Concord 3B
3 gallons cherry/chocolate
3 gallons cherry chocolate/almonds
7 gal Niagara 2B
7 gal Concord 2B
B = Blending


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## BonnieJoy (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm in NE Indiana & called my Walkers order in on the 1st day they re-opened in Sept. Had the pails shipped to me. Where did you get all the varietals you've got going?


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2010)

Bonnie Joy said:


> I'm in NE Indiana &amp; called my Walkers order in on the 1st day they re-opened in Sept. Had the pails shipped to me. Where did you get all the varietals you've got going?





This is all the wine I have going right now just from Walkers. I have a few other things going also. Walkers is only 75 miles from my house so I make the trip. I pick up 7 gallons at a time usually (thats 1/2 inch from the top of a primary bucket) so I have extra to top up with. I usually have to let it sit a day before adding yeast as it is ice cold when you get it.


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## grapeman (Oct 29, 2010)

Dan that is a nice list of wines you have.


What color is the Catawba this year. I racked mine from the Brutes yesterday and put into carboys. Yesterday it looked like Pepto, but today it is a nice bright red color! I'm not sure if the color will lessen with age or not. It would be great looking in a glass this way. I was able to get the acid down better this year than last time I made it from my grapes. I also was able to stop fermentation a bit short to keep it sweet. I will get a picture soon if I remember.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2010)

Thanks Rich. The Catawba is actualyy a golden or straw color much like the Vidal. Of the four wines I had listed in the primaries, The catawba is the only one I did not rack into secondaries today as it is still at 1.04. The rest were down to 1.01. They all started out at 1.09 and I used lalin1118 yeast. I will ferment dry and then back sweeten.


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## grapeman (Oct 29, 2010)

It is safest normally to ferment dry and sweeten. I wanted to try and stop it and was sucessful. I am trying to get away from sorbate. After clearing, etc before bottling, I will sterile filter it. It is only 37 gallons, but that is enough to play with.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2010)

What is the side effects of sorbate?


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## ibglowin (Oct 29, 2010)

You mean other than hair to grow in very strange places.......?



runningwolf said:


> What is the side effects of sorbate?


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## grapeman (Oct 29, 2010)

Sorbate works well for home winemakers and helps prevent renewed fermentation but it can have a few downsides when dealing with commercial products. Some people can detect it in the wine even in small amounts and find it objectionable. In a commercial setup, you are going to have a lot of malolactic bacteria floating around the place. If you have sorbated a wine and your wines get low on sulfites, the malo can ruin a lot of wine in a hurry. 



A few other reasons but the point is that I want to get away from using it.


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## BonnieJoy (Oct 29, 2010)

Rich, What Micron sized cartridge are you usingfor sterile filtering? I have a .45 to use on anything w/ RS - especiallythe LH Vignoles. So, just how did you stop the Catawba fermentation?


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2010)

Bonnie even though I did sorbate, I also used my .45


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## BonnieJoy (Oct 29, 2010)

I've already had popped corks &amp; exploding bottles. Everything I've read tells me a .20 Micron is over-kill. Would you agree? The danged cartridges are as expensive as the Tandem Hsg was.


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## Runningwolf (Oct 29, 2010)

I am using an enolmatic and they are reusable over and over. Price is around $50.00. When I got it said it is a .50 micron. I believe anything under .60 is good for yeast and .25 or less for bacteria. yes that would be overkill. At what point could you be sacrificing some qualities of the wine.


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## Dean (Oct 30, 2010)

Yeast are typically between .3 to .4 in size, so you need an absolute filter of .25 in order to remove the yeast. Bacteria are around the same size. Anything less than .25 is not a sterile filter, and can get a re-fermentation.


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## grapeman (Oct 30, 2010)

There is a lot of discussion and differences of opinion among winemakers and experts concerning all this. Dean is leaning to the conservative end and Dan is towards the other end. For home winemakers, sorbate is a much easier option. 


Lees filters, plate and pad filters, membrane filters, cross-flow filters, combination filters- so many choices, so much money


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## Randoneur (Oct 30, 2010)

What is the "General Practice" for sterile filtering - 0.45 micron??


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## Runningwolf (Oct 30, 2010)

Yes .45


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## BonnieJoy (Nov 28, 2010)

Dan - I read that you tasted the LH Vignoles juice before buying, have you sampled it yet after fermentation? Do you still like it better than last year's LH Vidal?


Found a really nice article in Oct/Nov 2009 issue of Wine Maker magazine on producing Ice Wine that has some applicability with LH wines.


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## Runningwolf (Nov 28, 2010)

Bonnie I have not tasted it even though I just racked it last week. Silly me, I do not do this like I should during the process. 
I did share a bottle of the LH Vidal last night and again tonight with some folks and dang was it good. Incidentallylast week Ireceived a gold medal for it at the 37th annual U.S. Amateur Winemaking Competition in L.A.


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## BonnieJoy (Nov 28, 2010)

Dan - Congrats on the gold medal. That's very awesome!


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## ibglowin (Nov 29, 2010)

Whaaaaaaa.......

You forgot to tell your buds here Bro!

Congrats!







runningwolf said:


> Incidentally last week I received a gold medal for it at the 37th annual U.S. Amateur Winemaking Competition in L.A.


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## Runningwolf (Nov 29, 2010)

ibglowin said:


> Whaaaaaaa.......
> 
> You forgot to tell your buds here Bro!
> 
> Congrats!



Ooops I guess I did.


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## ffemt128 (Nov 29, 2010)

runningwolf said:


> Bonnie I have not tasted it even though I just racked it last week. Silly me, I do not do this like I should during the process.
> I did share a bottle of the LH Vidal last night and again tonight with some folks and dang was it good. Incidentallylast week Ireceived a gold medal for it at the 37th annual U.S. Amateur Winemaking Competition in L.A.








Congrats Dan, Well deserved. Didn't see the announcement posted at WMT.


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## Runningwolf (Nov 29, 2010)

Bonnie Joy said:


> Dan - I read that you tasted the LH Vignoles juice before buying, have you sampled it yet after fermentation? Do you still like it better than last year's LH Vidal?





Bonnie I gave the LH Vignoles a taste today. Yes I believe it is going to be every bit as good as the Vidal or better!


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