# The age old dilemma



## Sage (Nov 10, 2015)

I have 14 bottles of my best wine left. My '13 Syrah turned out to be excellent (at least to me and anyone else trying it so far).

Drink it or age a little or a lot more ??? I'm debating sealing a case and setting it aside. On the other hand.... drink and enjoy.

(note: I was tasting some commercial wine yesterday at a winery and their '11 Syrah was almost exactly the same.... Maybe buy a case of theirs to drink??)


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## Julie (Nov 10, 2015)

I am currently drinking a 2012 cab Sauv and it is just awesome. So my thought is age it, it will get better. Then I think, drink it it is going to start going downhill!!!!!!!

So here is what I'm going to do. I'm thinking five years, so I am putting a bottle away for next year and a bottle for the following year and I am drinking the rest! And in the meantime, I am going to make another batch and age it for at least three years.


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## heatherd (Nov 10, 2015)

My 2012s are almost gone. I am drinking all the 2013s, but they are sparse. So I am forced to drink some 2014s as well.

Luckily I have increased production every year, so I do have more 2014 and 2015 wines to work with.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 10, 2015)

A wise man once proposed the following scheme to me. Taste the wine, and make your best guess as to how much longer it will still be good. (Could be many years.) Then divide that time by the number of bottles you have left. Open the next bottle after that amount of time. Repeat the process until wine is gone.


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## JohnT (Nov 11, 2015)

I used to feel that "building up a library" was the way to go. Hang on to past vintages and wait for that special time to open them is what I made a point of doing. I had some vintages that are 20 years old. 

The problem I have is that the "Special" time hardly ever arrived. The only reason I had such older vintages is that I never feel a day is worthy of that special wine. 

I had a buddy that always used to say "I could get hit by a truck tomorrow, wouldn't I feel stupid leaving behind all that great wine?". As fate would have it, this is exactly what happened to him. 

With my friend, this was more than lip service. There were times he would invite us up to his house for a great meal and also a ceremonial opening of a very special bottle. He liked to do this with me most of all because he knew that I truly appreciated it. I also responded in kind by having him down to our place for some of my good stuff.

I have recently adopted this idea, that wine SHOULD be enjoyed and not simply looked at, and began making it a point to work my "double-secret stash". Occasions that might seem ordinary to most are now made special. Just the fact that my two brothers, my father, and I are together warrants a volume from the library. I see this a way of honoring a good friend that knew how to make the most of his life. 

I still do have a stash, but is now limited to only a handful of bottles from any one vintage.


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## jswordy (Nov 11, 2015)

Sage said:


> Drink it or age a little or a lot more ???



This is a trick question, right?


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## NorCal (Nov 11, 2015)

My approach is to make so much that I cannot possibly consume it all right away.


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## heatherd (Nov 11, 2015)

That's why I have ten batches going in my kitchen right now!


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## Floandgary (Nov 11, 2015)

AHHH! the "WINE CELLAR OF DREAMS" dilemma.... "MAKE IT AND THEY WILL DRINK IT!" So if you keep say a case worth (depending on how large the batch is), you may get to the time when you want to dive in. BUT WAIT,,,, you'll only drink half and decide to keep the rest. Then some time later ,,,, and save half. Eventually only one left. And all of that only if it's good and gets better. If not, you'll kick yourself for not enjoying it when it was at it's best. With that in mind, I put only 1 bottle aside and at the really right time will share it (hopefully still drinkable), meanwhile enjoying the rest on a regular schedule


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## wineforfun (Nov 11, 2015)

JohnT said:


> and wait for that special time to open them
> 
> The problem I have is that the "Special" time hardly ever arrived.



My "special time" is every Friday and Saturday night. Give that a go and I think you will be quite pleased with the results.


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## ceeaton (Nov 11, 2015)

wineforfun said:


> My "special time" is every Friday and Saturday night. Give that a go and I think you will be quite pleased with the results.



+1 on that schedule. So two bottles a week (everyone always finishes the whole bottle around here, right?) x 52 weeks = 104 bottles for me and wifey, and about the same to give away. So I made 126 gallons so far this year so about 630 - 750ml bottles once it is all bottled. So I should have plenty to drink next year and not come close to finishing up what I've got to date...so hopefully I can keep a few of these reds for two years before consuming.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 11, 2015)

I have shared this before, so I apologize to those who have seen my post on "cellar math" before:



sour_grapes said:


> I have just been working out the math of how many bottles one needs to have on hand to meet one's ongoing needs. (I was trying to figure out how many wine racks to build!)
> 
> Here are my assumptions: I wish to make a kit, let it age a certain time, and then consume the bottles at a constant rate over a few years (its shelf life). The variables are:
> 
> ...


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## Sage (Nov 11, 2015)

Lots of answers but not on target. I probably didn't point out in the original post that this is not all the wine I have.

I HAVE 14 bottles. I'm trying to decide how much to save for a dry/special day. I DO have other wine that I can drink. This wine, at this time and I suspect for quite a while, is "special".


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## ceeaton (Nov 11, 2015)

Sage said:


> Lots of answers but not on target.



Funny (or maybe not so funny) how we all can hijack a thread and never give an opinion that actually answers the original query! You ask three wine makers and will get at least four different answers...hopefully some of them pertain to the original question!


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## ceeaton (Nov 11, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> I have shared this before, so I apologize to those who have seen my post on "cellar math" before:



Paul, I'm getting close in my first year! Closer to that number than I ever thought possible.


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## JohnT (Nov 12, 2015)

Sage said:


> Lots of answers but not on target. I probably didn't point out in the original post that this is not all the wine I have.
> 
> I HAVE 14 bottles. I'm trying to decide how much to save for a dry/special day. I DO have other wine that I can drink. This wine, at this time and I suspect for quite a while, is "special".


 
OK, 

We got off topic. I am afraid that I might have been the biggest offender. 

I would save 2 bottles and slowly drink the rest.


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## wineforfun (Nov 12, 2015)

Ok, on a serious note(although my other response was very serious). I have 6 bottles of my 2013 RJS OVZ and 14 bottles of my 2014 RJS Super Tuscan. 
I will make sure to keep at least one of those bottles, from both batches, until the 4-5yr. mark to see how the aging helps.
Other than that, the 5 OVZ I will open every 4-6mos. along the way, on no special day.
The Super Tuscan, I will do similar, opening a bottle every 4-6mos. I will basically spread them all out to make it to the 5yr.'ish mark.


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## jswordy (Nov 12, 2015)

Heck, I thought I answered the question very directly, although I used a question to answer it. Here's more detail.

I have one wine, a Norton, that I have kept for 3 years because that's what it needs. I am not a "wine connoisseur" so I don't keep them around long-term (meaning over 2 years).

If you have proper storage, keep it as a "special wine." I think you may have decided to do this before posting. 

If you do keep it long-term, I'd pay attention to the cork (if it is natural) past year two to be sure it is not deteriorating. Many natural corks can go 5 years, even conglomerates, in the proper conditions. But re-cork as needed. (I use only natural cork on mine - old school.) 

Also, every wine has its day when it was actually better the day before. I'd keep this in mind while storing. In storage it can change for the better but also for the worse. I have some wine my father bought in 1963. It is still drinkable but clearly past its prime days. Probably should have been consumed prior to 1985.


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## Floandgary (Nov 12, 2015)

Regardless of how much or what varietal you have, the dilemma still applies. "Should I save or should I glow?". Face it, most all of the product of this "Hobby" is meant to be consumed before too long, with very little set aside for the ages! Those involved from the vine to the barrel will benefit most from the details. Bottom line----"Love the wine you're with!!"


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## wineforfun (Nov 12, 2015)

jswordy said:


> I am not a "wine connoisseur" so I don't keep them around long-term (meaning over 2 years).



This pretty much sums me up too. 

Most of my wines, less some of the reds, are drank from the 6mo.-18mo. mark.


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## Sage (Nov 12, 2015)

wineforfun said:


> Ok, on a serious note(although my other response was very serious). I have 6 bottles of my 2013 RJS OVZ and 14 bottles of my 2014 RJS Super Tuscan.
> I will make sure to keep at least one of those bottles, from both batches, until the 4-5yr. mark to see how the aging helps.
> Other than that, the 5 OVZ I will open every 4-6mos. along the way, on no special day.
> The Super Tuscan, I will do similar, opening a bottle every 4-6mos. I will basically spread them all out to make it to the 5yr.'ish mark.





I like this answer! Sounds like something I could do easily and learn from it.

I will also keep track of the corks as suggested. These are natural cork for longer term storage.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 12, 2015)

Sage said:


> I like this answer! Sounds like something I could do easily and learn from it.



This is also what I do, as basically outlined in my post. I set up an Excel spreadsheet to codify this. I can give you a copy if you want it!


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## Sage (Nov 12, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> This is also what I do, as basically outlined in my post. I set up an Excel spreadsheet to codify this. I can give you a copy if you want it!



I keep a 3 ring binder of each wine and information on how they were made and with what, until bottled. The binder also includes the weather and growing conditions. I makes hand written notes as I see fit later on as it is used.

The information is originally on the computer, I use MS Publisher, and as a page is filled, I save it to a folder and print a hard copy. I usually have a thumb drive copy too. Had a couple computer failures so I try to keep things in some other form too.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 12, 2015)

Yes, I use a 3-ring binder for fermentation notes, too.

In the spreadsheet I was referring to, I input when (i.e., in how many years) I want to start drinking this wine, how many years I want it to last, how many bottles I have left, and when was the most recent time I drank one. The philosophy is that I would like to drink these at a (nearly) constant rate until their "expiration date." The formula calculates the next date that I am "allowed" to have another bottle, and compares this date to the current date.

When I drink a bottle, I record the date, decrement the number of bottles left by one, and the spreadsheet recalculates everything, giving the next available drinking date.

In the attached screenshot, the yellow is the input fields, and the blue is the output fields.


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## Sage (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks, That should be a great addition to my records. I just enlarged your sheet and saved it for reference. When the snow flies and I have more time, I'll adapt it and put it in the front of my binder.

Sage


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## Floandgary (Nov 12, 2015)

OH,,, just in case anyone has any ideas,,,,,,
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-1-5-billion-of-wine-in-old-british-ammo-dump


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## JohnT (Nov 13, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> Yes, I use a 3-ring binder for fermentation notes, too.
> 
> In the spreadsheet I was referring to, I input when (i.e., in how many years) I want to start drinking this wine, how many years I want it to last, how many bottles I have left, and when was the most recent time I drank one. The philosophy is that I would like to drink these at a (nearly) constant rate until their "expiration date." The formula calculates the next date that I am "allowed" to have another bottle, and compares this date to the current date.
> 
> ...


 

SG.. 

I wish I could be that organized! 

I have bulk bins that hold 5 cases each. I also have a walled off area for single bottle storage (I call this my "Wine Library"). I have been meaning to pull every last bottle out of the library and log it into a master list. With all of the wine shopping, winery hopping, and homemade archiving that I have been doing, I have no clue on what is actually in there. 

I just have not been able to find the time!


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## JohnT (Nov 13, 2015)

Floandgary said:


> OH,,, just in case anyone has any ideas,,,,,,
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-1-5-billion-of-wine-in-old-british-ammo-dump


 

Wouldn't you know that my Birthday is only 8 months away??? This would be the perfect gift.


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