# fermenting without a carboy



## smack (Jul 3, 2012)

i am, by no means an expert. i've made about 50 gallons so far, never used a kit, but i scour this site for technique. 
i am in a situation where i have far more stone crocks than i will ever have carboys. i live on a small island in the pacific and even though i have just placed a sizable order for more carboys, i will still have an overabundance of what we typically think of as primary fermenters, ranging from 30 gallons down. 
i am wondering if anybody ferments and clears to bottling without the use of a carboy. i can tell from reading that quite a few of you ferment to dry, on the lees, in the primary, but then it seems that into a secondary it goes with an airlock for clearing. 
i'm well aware that without a carboy, in the open top bucket type vessel that there is a lot of headspace, thus exposure to oxygen, and that the day that you finally open up the top, the CO2 barrier will be breached and the potential is introduced for oxygen to contact the wine and begin spoilage. 
i'm also aware that plenty of people have made plenty of alcohol before carboys were invented, albeit nowhere near the caliber of todays home vintner. 
it seems there is at least one likely candidate for possibility, skeeter pee, as it can ferment and clear so quickly, and because it needs no aging, you drink it quickly too. i probably dont need 100 gallons of skeeter pee though so. . .
my question is this: after fermented to dry, assuming that you dont use a vacuum pump, isnt the simple process of racking to another carboy, and after bulk aging, into bottles, exposing it to just as small an amount of oxygen as if you fermented, cleared, and racked to individual bottles for aging? 
i wonder if anyone uses another technique to avoid the carboy.


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## DirtyDawg10 (Jul 3, 2012)

I use carboys but I'm sure it is possible if done correctly. However a big problem I see is that you can't tell if it has cleared if it's in a primary fermenter and when opened the CO2 escapes. I do know you could try filling the head space with CO2 gas after you open to check it or rack it. That may be an additional PITA that you don't need though.


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## TJsBasement (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm completely talking out my a$$ but what about just laying super thin plastic over it to rest on the liquid surface.


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## barryjo (Jul 4, 2012)

One suggestion for using the crocks for secondary fermenting. Use a sheet of plastic over the top secured by a double-wrap of bungee cord. Fastened tightly. When installing, leave a "sag" in the plastic. This will allow for changes in atmospheric pressure which is the main cause of the level in airlocks to vary, once fermentation is complete. And remember, CO2 is heavier than air. 
Good luck.


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## BobF (Jul 4, 2012)

It is very likely, almost certain in fact, that fermentation will continue for a while after your hydro reaches 1.000. Transferring to a carboy does a couple of things; remove the wine from the gross lees AND create an anaerobic environment for the fermentation to complete. The final leg of the ferment happens very slowly and can continue for an extended time frame. We're talking calendar pages ...

The point is that if you bottle right away, you will likely have bottle bombs and/or gassy wine and/or tons of sediment. If you don't bottle right away, then you're leaving your wine with a huge surface area way too long. You stand a good chance of ending up with something more appropriate for your salad than your wine glass.

In the long run you'll be better off limiting your production based on carboy availability - most of us are in same situation even if we're not on a remote island.


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## Umbra (Jul 5, 2012)

smack said:


> i am, by no means an expert. i've made about 50 gallons so far, never used a kit, but i scour this site for technique.
> i am in a situation where i have far more stone crocks than i will ever have carboys. i live on a small island in the pacific and even though i have just placed a sizable order for more carboys, i will still have an overabundance of what we typically think of as primary fermenters, ranging from 30 gallons down.
> i am wondering if anybody ferments and clears to bottling without the use of a carboy. i can tell from reading that quite a few of you ferment to dry, on the lees, in the primary, but then it seems that into a secondary it goes with an airlock for clearing.
> i'm well aware that without a carboy, in the open top bucket type vessel that there is a lot of headspace, thus exposure to oxygen, and that the day that you finally open up the top, the CO2 barrier will be breached and the potential is introduced for oxygen to contact the wine and begin spoilage.
> ...



My son does this all the time. He puts a plastic bag into his barrel (stone crocks for you), and then adds the liquid to ferment. He draws up the top of the bag and uses a twist-tie or wire to hold the top of the bag tight around a piece of tubing. The free end of the tube is placed into a glass of water (making a bubbler). The only trick is to find food grade plastic bags that are somewhat near the size of your crocks. You can fold and tuck the plastic bag a bit. If you open the bag carefully, you can preserve the layer of carbon dioxide (heavier than air) inside the bag to protect your wine. My son loves that clean up is so easy and the threat of bacteria residing in the cracks of and old crock is no longer a problem, since the wine does not touch the crock. Good luck.


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## BobF (Jul 5, 2012)

US Plastics has food grade container lining bags of various sizes. I keep threatening to get some for elderberry. I wouldn't leave my wine in these bags beyond primary ferment, but I'm just that way.


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## smack (Jul 10, 2012)

*moot point*

this has turned into not so much of an issue after all. our household goods were delivered today. both the 30 gallon and 12 gallon crocks were destroyed in the move. the remaining smaller crocks will not provide such an abundance that i wont have carboys to fit the bill.


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## juventude (Jul 10, 2012)

Why not just use liquid paraffin this does great for isolation from oxygen....


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## TJsBasement (Jul 10, 2012)

Smack that sucks, sorry.


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## DirtyDawg10 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ouch! Sorry to hear that.


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## robie (Jul 10, 2012)

Sorry about the breakage. 

I have often wondered what the effect would be on taste, but the ancient Romans would cover (seal) their wine with olive oil to protect it from oxidation. I would think the food grade wax (for canning) would also have worked in an absolute pinch.


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## smack (Jul 11, 2012)

yeah, i was really looking forward to filling the 30 gallon with skeeter pee. seemed a perfect plan in this tropical climate.


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