# Small Wine Barrel; Length of Aging



## Kitchen (Oct 6, 2020)

I got my hands on an 8 gallon new oak barrel with a medium toast and plan on first aging a full bodied right bank Bordeaux blend, followed by a Petite Sirah & Malbec blend I plan on fortifying and sweetening to turn it into a tawny. This is the first time I used a barrel and have a few questions on using it.

First, I am just wondering how long I should plan on aging here given the smaller size of the barrel. I realize the tawny is going to have to go for the long haul, but how long should I plan on aging the Bordeaux? I was thinking 4 or 5 months?

Also, my idea behind aging the Bordeaux first was to strip a good portion of the oak flavor out of the barrel so the tawny does not get over oaked with 3 to 5 years of aging. Does this make sense and is one wine good enough to remove the amount of oak needed to prevent over oaking on the tawny?

By the time the tawny gets into the barrel, the fine lees will be long racked off. Should I be concerned about over oxidation of a fortified wine without any lees in the barrel?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Oct 6, 2020)

On a barrel of that size, I'd be looking at 6-8 weeks for the first wine. Second wine, 8-10 weeks - maybe 12. After that, you could probably go 6 months. But it's all subject to taste and oak tolerance.


----------



## Ike64 (Oct 7, 2020)

I think Jim is correct. I'd shoot for the shorter time at first.

Would you be willing to tell me where you got the barrel? Thanks.


----------



## tullamore (Oct 7, 2020)

what type of barrel? French, American, Hungarian?(looks like French) - if american - shorter time at first - the american oak will blast off very quickly - much quicker then the other 2


----------



## Kitchen (Oct 7, 2020)

tullamore said:


> what type of barrel? French, American, Hungarian?(looks like French) - if american - shorter time at first - the american oak will blast off very quickly - much quicker then the other 2



It is Hungarian.


----------



## Kitchen (Oct 7, 2020)

Ike64 said:


> I think Jim is correct. I'd shoot for the shorter time at first.
> 
> Would you be willing to tell me where you got the barrel? Thanks.


Thanks for the advice all. 

Here is the link for the barrel. They sell larger sizes too. Balazs New Hungarian Oak Barrel - 28L (7.39 gal) | MoreBeer


----------



## mainshipfred (Oct 8, 2020)

It's all a matter of preference as far as the amount of oak you like. My opinion with a med toast Hungarian I think you could go at least 3-4 months and possibly 5. BTW, the Hungarian barrels I ordered for the group this year were $195.00 and since you're in Philly the shipping can't be that much, maybe $30.00.


----------



## Kitchen (Oct 8, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> It's all a matter of preference as far as the amount of oak you like. My opinion with a med toast Hungarian I think you could go at least 3-4 months and possibly 5. BTW, the Hungarian barrels I ordered for the group this year were $195.00 and since you're in Philly the shipping can't be that much, maybe $30.00.


So you order barrels for this group, part of a large order? If so, keep me in mind for next year. 

How big are the barrels?


----------



## mainshipfred (Oct 8, 2020)

Kitchen said:


> So you order barrels for this group, part of a large order? If so, keep me in mind for next year.
> 
> How big are the barrels?



I can get 25, 30, 40, 50, 100, 120 and full size. the thread is "New Barrels for Forum Members".


----------



## pete1325 (Oct 9, 2020)

Need some guidance; I just recieved my new barrel (thanks again Fred) and had planned to age my Cab, soon after primary is over (another week) in it. I was going to age it for 6-8 months, then bottle. Do you not bulk age in barrels?? Or is it a matter of taste? more/less oah flavor?


----------



## Johnd (Oct 9, 2020)

pete1325 said:


> Need some guidance; I just recieved my new barrel (thanks again Fred) and had planned to age my Cab, soon after primary is over (another week) in it. I was going to age it for 6-8 months, then bottle. Do you not bulk age in barrels?? Or is it a matter of taste? more/less oah flavor?


You can certainly bulk age in barrels, you just need to be careful not to over oak a wine in a new barrel. And the smaller it is, the higher the surface area to wine ratio, meaning, it imparts oak taste to the wine much more quickly. In my brand new 60 gallon barrels, I can go nearly 2 years without a problem, in a brand new 6 gallon barrel, just a few weeks. Trick is to have a lineup of wines ready to go in, after about 2 years, the barrel is pretty much neutral and you can put wines in it for 6 months to take advantage of the micro-oxygenation and concentration, while adding oak cubes or staves to get a little oaky flavor.......

A little unsolicited advice, wait until your wine has been in a carboy for a few months before putting it in the barrel, let it be pretty clear and nearly free of CO2, you'll be happy that you have a clean barrel and don't have to rack in and out of it to get rid of lees. Plus, you can't see the lees building up in the bottom of it like you can in glass.........


----------



## Kitchen (Oct 9, 2020)

My game plan right now is to use the barrel first for a Chardonnay I am starting today. The barrel has a lighter toast than I thought and will add good tannins to the Chard. I will probably keep the Chard in the barrel for 5 weeks or so, enough to pull out some of the oak flavor. Then I will put in a very full bodied Bordeaux blend for a few months to age and try to get some slight oxygenation and concentration from evaporation. After that, I feel the barrel should have lost enough flavor to do a long term aging of a Tawny I am making from a blend of Petite Sirah, Malbec and Cab Sav that will sit for a few years.


----------



## mainshipfred (Oct 9, 2020)

John's recommendation of having a lineup with using a new small barrel is on point. Although it's a matter of preference, I am finding a medium toast Hungarian barrel can see a wine longer than one might think in it's first use. Especially with a Cab which can usually take a lot of oak. The key is to taste it periodically until it meets your expectations. If you wanted to give the first wine a little more micro-oxygenation your could replace it with the second and/or third wine and later return it to the barrel once more of the oak is given up.


----------



## pete1325 (Oct 9, 2020)

Thanks Fred, I will follow your suggestion. The barrel I bought from you leaked a little, it stopped after I refilled it with some warm water. the second filling. I forgot, is this barrel a light or med taost?


----------



## mainshipfred (Oct 9, 2020)

pete1325 said:


> Thanks Fred, I will follow your suggestion. The barrel I bought from you leaked a little, it stopped after I refilled it with some warm water. the second filling. I forgot, is this barrel a light or med taost?


 I'ts medium, not uncommon for barrels to leak a little when they are initially filled. It is important to follow the guidelines for preparing a new barrel though which normally recommends using hot water. Plus if you haven't already I would recommend tightening the hoops. Sometimes even if the barrel is dry using water it will leak a little once the wine is in it. I think it has to do with viscosity.


----------



## pete1325 (Oct 9, 2020)

Thanks, with the cold water it leaked. Hot water not as much. I think it's ready for some vino. heck, So am I. Thanks again.


----------



## AcreageWine (Mar 7, 2021)

Very good info on this thread. I have a batch on Amarone in a new , lightly toasted, European oak, 23l barrel. This is the first wine in this barrel. I had a little problem with leaks even though I thought the leaks were solved once I let the barrel soak with water and re-swell for a few days. I solved the side leaks and one end cap leak with bees wax. So I had originally panned to go 12 week in the barrel but after reading this thread I think I better check at 3 weeks and consider just 4 or 5 weeks in total.


----------



## AcreageWine (Mar 26, 2021)

Well its 4 weeks in the barrel, had a taste test last week and this week. Fantastic, I still have 2 weeks to go before my Pinot Noir is ready to go in the barrel. I am comfortable leaving it in till the Pinot goes in replace the Amarone. If its over Oakes I blend latter with a batch.


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 26, 2021)

@Kitchen, make sure you have sufficient extra wine for topup. I have 54 liter (14.25 US gallons) barrels and they need ~500 ml topup each month, so I must have 60.5 liters of wine to age for 1 year.

Can anyone advise on the expected evaporation rate for a 28 liter barrel?


----------



## Boatboy24 (Mar 28, 2021)

AcreageWine said:


> Well its 4 weeks in the barrel, had a taste test last week and this week. Fantastic, I still have 2 weeks to go before my Pinot Noir is ready to go in the barrel. I am comfortable leaving it in till the Pinot goes in replace the Amarone. If its over Oakes I blend latter with a batch.



An Amarone can handle a good amount of oak, so I think you'll be good to go.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Mar 28, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> Can anyone advise on the expected evaporation rate for a 28 liter barrel?



I'm sure there is some scientific equation out there that takes into account the temp and relative humidity, but I imagine there are too many variables at play to accurately predict. Temp, humidity, ABV, etc would all play a role.


----------



## winemaker81 (Mar 28, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm sure there is some scientific equation out there that takes into account the temp and relative humidity, but I imagine there are too many variables at play to accurately predict. Temp, humidity, ABV, etc would all play a role.


Agreed. The original owner of my barrels said they averaged about 500 ml each per month. My humidity and temperature are not consistent, so topup ranges from roughly 300 to 750 ml. The 500 ml prediction is a rough average.

Those with 28 liter barrels may be able to provide information regarding their results.


----------



## mainshipfred (Mar 28, 2021)

I have 25, 30 and 50s but to tell you the truth I don't measure, just top them up as needed.


----------



## AcreageWine (Apr 30, 2021)

I pulled the Amarone out the oak at 7 weeks and racked to a carboy. The Pinot Noir was ready to go into the oak. 3 weeks latter now I have bottled the Amarone, it needs some more time to bottle age but this is a fantastic wine.


----------

