# Large-scale Winemaking Operation: Need Advice



## Delaney (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm currently studying in Agricultural Sciences, and I'm doing a comprehensive business proposal to initiate a viniculture operation, more specifically on Manitoulin Island, Lake Huron, Ontario, Canada. I would like some advice regarding what type of system to suggest. Being an avid brewer and novice winemaker, I am familiar with the principles of fermentation, but have no experience regarding large-scale production.

Because there is no established viniculture on the island, I will be diversifying the cultivar selection in order to minimize the risk of crop failure, and will therefore require several fermentation chambers. I'm hoping that some of you will have suggestions regarding designs for small - medium sized processing systems.

everything from A-Z has to be covered...Most important factors are cost, capacity, and durability.

-de-stemming of grapes (manual/mechanical?)
-Washing of grapes (necessary?)
-Crushing of grapes (what equipment to use?)
-fermentation chambers (stainless steel conical fermentors?) what brand? sizes? costs?
-De-gassing (how to degass? vacuum system?)
-Yeast starter (How to produce starters for large-scale operations such as this?)
-bulk aging (what is the most cost effective way of achieving this?)
-bottling systems (don't know where to begin here)...
-Transferring system (how to rack from fermentation chamber to secondary?)
-What kind of Quality Control should be implemented?
-pH control?
-How to deal with tartaric crystal with large-scale operations?

Anything I am missing here??? I know this is a lot to tackle, I'm just hoping to be led in a good direction.


Thanks Kindly,

Delaney Bray-Stone.


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## JohnT (Nov 15, 2012)

See my comments....

-de-stemming of grapes (manual/mechanical?) - Are you kidding? labor costs would kill you. Mechanical of course. You will need a high capacity crusher destemmer. 

-Washing of grapes (necessary?) Never wash grapes. This only serves to dilute the resulting juice.

-Crushing of grapes (what equipment to use?) Crusher/destemmer performs both operations. 

-fermentation chambers (stainless steel conical fermentors?) what brand? sizes? costs? Size depends on your individual situation. For large operations, a glycol jacketed SS fermentor is recomended to maintain temperature throughout fermentation. Most wineries produce a variety of different wines that ripen at different points. Since fermentation usually only lasts two weeks, it is possible to "stage" the wine (or get multiple fermentations per single year's harvest). 


-De-gassing (how to degass? vacuum system?) - not all wineries take an extra step in de-gassing. Some do. Degassing can happen as a result of long term storage (say 2 to 5 years). For shorter "to market" times, degassing becomes more important. I normally age 2 years and never had the need to degas.


-Yeast starter (How to produce starters for large-scale operations such as this?). Even on a large scale, most wineries make their own starters. You do need active yeast, but this cost is rather small. 

-bulk aging (what is the most cost effective way of achieving this?) Gallo used concrete tanks sunk into the ground. This was (given the volume) the cheapest method. You need to keep in mind that bulk aging is a formation step in wine development. Techniques on how to age really depend on the level of quality (and the level of pricing) you plan on achieveing. Most wanting to up the quality age in oak barrels that run anywhere from 400 to 600 (usd) per 230 liters.

-bottling systems (don't know where to begin here)... Automated bottling lines can run upwards of 100,000 usd for small outfits. Many small outfits prefer to use "mobile bottling lines" (truck setups that visit wineries). Small wineries having made the investment have been know to also bottle other wineries product (for a fee) to offset the investment costs of the equipment.

-Transferring system (how to rack from fermentation chamber to secondary?) Most use pumps. Others use simple gas pressure systems for transferring wine. Still, other wineries, like sterling in napa have been known to set up their wineries as a series of different facilities at different hillside elevations, then simply use gravity to rack wine. This "ferment at the top, bottle at the bottom" system really works well but is expensive.

-What kind of Quality Control should be implemented? - Your tongue! best tester ever invented. QC needs to be an ongoing process and is exacly what master winemaker do for a living.

-pH control? testing is cheap. a PH meter is about $100 (usd). Controlling PH is a matter of adding an appropriate acid compound. 

-How to deal with tartaric crystal with large-scale operations? manual cleansing (labor)


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## grapeman (Nov 15, 2012)

Good luck. It sounds like you are trying to begin a very costly time-intensive venture with no knowledge. The first thing you should do is educate yourself in all aspects of winemaking. It sounds like maybe you are trying to have someone else write a term paper for you. If not, I apologize. If you are, do your research first and then begin the writing process.


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## JohnT (Nov 15, 2012)

grapeman said:


> Good luck. It sounds like you are trying to begin a very costly time-intensive venture with no knowledge. The first thing you should do is educate yourself in all aspects of winemaking. It sounds like maybe you are trying to have someone else write a term paper for you. If not, I apologize. If you are, do your research first and then begin the writing process.


 

I think that him comming here and asking questions IS part of his research (lol).


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## Delaney (Nov 15, 2012)

Uhm yeah I am not trying to get anybody to write a term paper for me...I am writing a 6000 word proposal, evaluating climate, soil, cultivars, variable and fixed costs, projected revenues, financing....I am here simply looking for advice on what kind of equipment I should be looking at. Furthermore anything I use has to be backed by peer reviewed material, so whatever advice obtained here is simply a foot in the right direction.


Thanks very much for the advice thus far...I will surely have more questions.


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## grapeman (Nov 16, 2012)

Sorry Delaney, I probably didn't word it quite correctly. It is just that I have seen many people that want to take the short easy route and then miss out on actually learning what they are supposed to do. Knowledge is a cummulative thing even in a particular subject. It is one thing to have a project and build a sucessful proposal and then quite another to actually make it work out right.

I think the first thing you need to determine is the projected amount of wine you need to produce in order to attain the desired target. What I mean is if you want to generate a full time income for yourself and 20% return for the investors, you need to set a dollar value on that. Then how much wine is needed to produce at what price to make that. Set some realistic goals so you can tell if you need to produce 5000 cases of wine or 50000 cases of wine. That will dictate all of the other necessities.

JohnT has given you a few basics here.

There are basic business plans available online that you can review and see what those authors were trying to accomplish. One of the most valuable things you can do is to get out and visit a few wineries and ask questions. If the onesnear you are like the ones in the US they will likely share some material with you. Check southeast of Montreal and you will find a number of small wineries in business in Quebec. I assume you are bilingual going to school in Montreal or near it. Look up Alain Breault as he is a wealth of information. 

Look at the Cornell University website also as they have information on equipment and so on that you need. 

Good luck with the project.


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## Delaney (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks a lot, I'm going to do an in-depth analysis of costs + necessary output, then I will return here for help in deciding what equipment would best suit my estimated volume of production.

I'm actually studying in Guelph now. I've contacted a few local wineries to see their operation but have had limited success with this approach.

I'll be back soon!

Cheers

~Delaney


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## CellarRat (Nov 18, 2012)

I would start by reading every winemaking book I could find. That is what many have done. Frankly, the information you receive will be much better. Most here, with the exception of my guess a very few, are brute small container fermentors and carboy folks. 

All of your questions are easily answered. Free manuals online available from morewine and others. Great books as well... you can start with Daniel Pambianchi's book. Every question will be answered.


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## joemilhoan (Feb 26, 2015)

Good afternoon . I too am thinking of starting a small/ medium batch production. CellarRat, I have been limited to carboy's and small fermentation. My wine, however, has won a great local following and now I wish to expand. I would also appreciate any advice.
Joe Milhoan
Wilmington, DE usa


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