# Frozen Chilean Juice



## Wild Duk (Mar 17, 2012)

I have a lhbs where I can get frozen Chilean juice around may. I'm assuming that they are probably getting this from the same places that most others on this site gets their juice. How does this compare to high end kits??? I see that there are no skins with these juice buckets, and want my wine to have good body and tannins. May order a cab....

Thx


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## Bartman (Mar 17, 2012)

I plan on getting one of the Mosti Chile Fresco buckets from FVW, having done them a couple times now. I would say Mosti's juice buckets are as good as the high end kits, and even better than those if you add a grape pack. The juice is balanced and inoculated so all you have to do is bring it to room temperature and its off to the races! I have made the Carmenere (2009) and Cabernet Sauv. (last year). I haven't bottled the Cab yet, but am close to it. The Carmenere was very good, until it was gone! It was easily the best batch I had made before using fresh grapes, and on par with the Red Mt. Cab.

The frozen juice buckets are probably the easiest form of winemaking I have done - it is even easier than the Alljuice kits because you don't even add yeast! You do have options to do MLF and use whatever oak you like, so that's somewhat liberating. You just need patience, since it will benefit from aging like fresh grapes.


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## Momdrann (Mar 18, 2012)

Hello all, I have been making wine from frozen juice buckets for 4 years now -Chilean in may and Italian in October  I have a background in chemistry, so I like to tinker! I actually kill the yeast in the bucket, adjust acid level, and then pitch my own yeast. I have been very happy with the results for my Italian Frascati, which just won a bronze at an amateur wine competition, but disappointed in the heaviness of my Chilean reds. I don't want to make wine from grapes because I don't have space for equipment . I have tried to
Buy grape skin packs, but they don't seem available. Has anyone made their own. And how do you do it? 
Best


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## PCharles (Apr 10, 2012)

I recalled that the Wine Makers Toy Store carried grape packs. I checked their site and found the item listed, but when I clicked on it the page came up blank. I gave them a call and apparently their supplier has discontinued providing the product. The folks there at the toy store where very friendly and informative, suggesting that skins or raisines were not essential and that the juice alone made very good wine. At this point I'll just be adding oak and a bit of grape tannin.


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## shoebiedoo (Apr 10, 2012)

Momdrann said:


> Hello all, I have been making wine from frozen juice buckets for 4 years now -Chilean in may and Italian in October  I have a background in chemistry, so I like to tinker! I actually kill the yeast in the bucket, adjust acid level, and then pitch my own yeast. I have been very happy with the results for my Italian Frascati, which just won a bronze at an amateur wine competition, but disappointed in the heaviness of my Chilean reds. I don't want to make wine from grapes because I don't have space for equipment . I have tried to
> Buy grape skin packs, but they don't seem available. Has anyone made their own. And how do you do it?
> Best



What's the best way to kill the yeast in these buckets? I wanted to do that the last time around but really didn't know how?


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## robie (Apr 10, 2012)

Momdrann said:


> Hello all, I have been making wine from frozen juice buckets for 4 years now -Chilean in may and Italian in October  I have a background in chemistry, so I like to tinker! I actually kill the yeast in the bucket, adjust acid level, and then pitch my own yeast. I have been very happy with the results for my Italian Frascati, which just won a bronze at an amateur wine competition, but disappointed in the heaviness of my Chilean reds. I don't want to make wine from grapes because I don't have space for equipment . I have tried to
> Buy grape skin packs, but they don't seem available. Has anyone made their own. And how do you do it?
> Best



Hi Momdrann and welcome to the forum.
How are you killing the already pitched yeast and what are you doing to insure they are not fermenting your wine?


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## robie (Apr 10, 2012)

I just noticed that Momdrann has made only one post and that was 2 weeks ago, so I'll assume he/she is not available.

I don't know how one would kill the already pitched yeast. Kmeta doesn't really kill them, it just stuns them and slows them down for a short time, depending on the dose.

One could stun the yeast, wait a few days, then pitch some other yeast. This likely would not work either. Both strains would recover from the Kmeta and then have to fight it out for the right to ferment.

Some yeast strains can co-exist and ferment together. Some strains will fight it out and the stronger will win out completely. One has to take this strain-by-strain to determine what the result may be.

Depending on which strain was originally pitched, they might win out and do the fermentation anyway, if they are a dominant strain. 

Temperature has a bearing, too. If you keep the fermentation cool and the original yeast likes it warmer; and you pitch a cold temp strain, the cold temp strain might win this battle. The opposite might be true with higher temp strains.

Maybe stun the yeast with Kmeta, add an amount of alcohol that would kill the yeast, then create a yeast starter with new yeast and slowly acclimate them, so they, too, would not die of shock. Don't know how much alcohol that would take or how effective this really would be.

I am out of ideas. If anyone else has any ideas, I'd like to hear them. I am certainly not an expert on the subject.


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## Rocky (Apr 10, 2012)

I would be interested to know how she does it, too. I can think of a couple ways and they would be bery ponderous to do but should work. One could heat the juice to about 140 F for a period of time and that should kill off the yeast. Or one could add alcohol, kill he yeast and then warm the juice to about 170 F to drive off the alcohol. 

I plan to try to make my own grape packs in the Fall when Cabernet Sauvignon is available. I was just going to de-stem them, mash them and cook them down to about 1/2 to 1/3 the original volume and vacuum pack them. I am undecided as to whether or not to add K-meta. What do you all think?


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## robie (Apr 10, 2012)

Rocky said:


> I would be interested to know how she does it, too. I can think of a couple ways and they would be bery ponderous to do but should work. One could heat the juice to about 140 F for a period of time and that should kill off the yeast. Or one could add alcohol, kill he yeast and then warm the juice to about 170 F to drive off the alcohol.
> 
> I plan to try to make my own grape packs in the Fall when Cabernet Sauvignon is available. I was just going to de-stem them, mash them and cook them down to about 1/2 to 1/3 the original volume and vacuum pack them. I am undecided as to whether or not to add K-meta. What do you all think?



I think DJSteve, Julie, Tom, and some others have made F packs before. They will chime in soon. I have never made one.

I would freeze those grape packs.

I wonder if some of those extremes would really be worth it. Here's an idea-

Rehydrate 2 or 3 packets of one's preferred yeast and make a good health starter and let it multiply for about 24 hours. Let the must temperature get up to desired point, then dump in that starter. make that temperature on the low side. The original yeast would only be beginning to wake up by then. The overwhelming number of the preferred yeast just might take over.

If not, not much lost except 3 packets of yeast.


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## SBWs (Apr 10, 2012)

I've been wondering if I take red table grapes and use my steam juicer to extract the juice to drink and then freeze the skins left over if they would work for a skin pac, what do you all think about this??? I'm still kicking myself as I steamed juiced some concord grapes last year and tossed the skins in the trash. What was I thinking!


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## Momdrann (Apr 11, 2012)

Hello all, busy with income taxes so kind of dropped ball on wine forum after reading some of the comments to my original post I realize that I may be exaggerating my ability to kill the yeast it comes with. I pick up the buckets as soon as they come in and are very cold, sometimes almost frozen. I then add the potassium metabisulphite immediately, and I wait about 30hours to add my yeast which I "proof" in warm water with yeast nutrient for 10 minutes before I add it to the bucket- you can see it fermenting like when making bread! One time I was forced to add my yeast in less than 24hours as I had to go out of town and after 5 days nothing was happening -which is why I felt I was actually killing all the yeast -not just stunning it. There have been other times when it had already started and all I did was slow it down. But even in those situations, where obviously it was a mixture of yeast cultures I was happy with the end result and the fermentation went to SG of 0.992 or better.
I am planning on trying Rockys wine skin idea with this years Chilean Zinfandel juice and Cabernet grapes, which are due to arrive in 3 weeks!

Best to all and will try to check back more often in future


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## robie (Apr 11, 2012)

Momdrann said:


> Hello all, busy with income taxes so kind of dropped ball on wine forum after reading some of the comments to my original post I realize that I may be exaggerating my ability to kill the yeast it comes with. I pick up the buckets as soon as they come in and are very cold, sometimes almost frozen. I then add the potassium metabisulphite immediately, and I wait about 30hours to add my yeast which I "proof" in warm water with yeast nutrient for 10 minutes before I add it to the bucket- you can see it fermenting like when making bread! One time I was forced to add my yeast in less than 24hours as I had to go out of town and after 5 days nothing was happening -which is why I felt I was actually killing all the yeast -not just stunning it. There have been other times when it had already started and all I did was slow it down. But even in those situations, where obviously it was a mixture of yeast cultures I was happy with the end result and the fermentation went to SG of 0.992 or better.
> I am planning on trying Rockys wine skin idea with this years Chilean Zinfandel juice and Cabernet grapes, which are due to arrive in 3 weeks!
> 
> Best to all and will try to check back more often in future



Hey, as long as you are happy with the results, what could be better?


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## OldCanalBrewing (Apr 11, 2012)

I might try 1/2 to 1 lb raisins in my Pinot Nior this Sat. Wont hurt.


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## harleydmn (Apr 11, 2012)

I have only done kits and skeeter pee so far but getting a couple Chilean Juice buckets, is there a formula for add energizer and nutrient? Is there anything else I should use?


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## Momdrann (Apr 11, 2012)

harleydmn said:


> I have only done kits and skeeter pee so far but getting a couple Chilean Juice buckets, is there a formula for add energizer and nutrient? Is there anything else I should use?



The yeast nutrient package tells you how much to add for the number of gallons. The other things you add depend on the wine you are making. I add medium toast oak chips to my reds. I also check the actual total acid ( with a TA kit) and usually end up adding tartaric acid. When I first started making from buckets I pulled the instructions from the kits and talked to the people at the wine supply store and referred to wine making books. It's a lot more fun and rewarding when you start figuring out things for yourself. And get a notebook !!

Luck


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## harleydmn (Apr 12, 2012)

Luck,
I thought this site was for all of us to help each other out, and no question was a dumb question. Now I'm told to figuring out on my own and get a notebook! I guess I was hoping for some more info about yeast nutrients and energizer.


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## Rocky (Apr 12, 2012)

harleydmn said:


> Luck,
> I thought this site was for all of us to help each other out, and no question was a dumb question. Now I'm told to figuring out on my own and get a notebook! I guess I was hoping for some more info about yeast nutrients and energizer.


 
Harley, I think you completely misunderstood what was written. "Luck" was referring to her own experience in saying it was fun to try things on her own. _She_ found it fun to figure things out on her own by talking to people and _she_ needed a notebook for all the information. 

As far as yest nutrient and energizer are concerned, personally I try to use as little of that type of addition as possible. I would rather try to remedy problem fermentations with increased temperature, different and more aggressive strains of yeast, stirring and time. I try to avoid adding chemicals to my wine but, according to the manufacturer, the dosage for nutrient is 1 t per gallon and for energizer 1/2 t per gallon.


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## harleydmn (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks Rocky,
So I really may not need it. The buckets come already with yeast in them so I have no choice. From reading other posts I though it was needed to add the chemicals. 

Sorry I read the post the wrong way, I thought it was directed at me.


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## robie (Apr 12, 2012)

harleydmn said:


> Thanks Rocky,
> So I really may not need it. The buckets come already with yeast in them so I have no choice. From reading other posts I though it was needed to add the chemicals.
> 
> Sorry I read the post the wrong way, I thought it was directed at me.



I understand the possible confusion!!!

I have never made any of these particular juice buckets. I also am a little confused about them. 
Do they also come with the other necessary chemicals?
Are they pre-balanced?
Do they require yeast nutrients?
Can they go through MLF?
What instructions exactly come with them?

I guess I am wondering if they are more like fresh grape juice that needs all the processing of such, or are they more like a kit wine, which only requires simple stabilization and clarifying?


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## shoebiedoo (Apr 12, 2012)

I understand the possible confusion!!!

I have never made any of these particular juice buckets. I also am a little confused about them. 
Do they also come with the other necessary chemicals? They do NOT come with any other chemicals but they ARE pre-balanced 
Are they pre-balanced?
Do they require yeast nutrients? I didn't add any yeast nutrients to the last batch I got. 
Can they go through MLF? That's the confusing part to me. The wine maker up at L'uva Bella, where my buckets came from, said it's not necessary to go through MLF unless you plan to age more than 2 years. 
What instructions exactly come with them? The instructions are pretty vague at best. I believe there's some guidance on the buckets but they're not much help. You have the flexibility to oak them the way you want along with other enchantments.

I guess I am wondering if they are more like fresh grape juice that needs all the processing of such, or are they more like a kit wine, which only requires simple stabilization and clarifying?

I would put them in between kits and Frozen must (like Brehm's) as they are balanced but that's about it.

I'm sure others will chime in too


Steve


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## robie (Apr 12, 2012)

shoebiedoo said:


> I understand the possible confusion!!!
> 
> I have never made any of these particular juice buckets. I also am a little confused about them.
> Do they also come with the other necessary chemicals? They do NOT come with any other chemicals but they ARE pre-balanced
> ...



Thanks. Sounds like they should be treated as fresh juice without all the DAP and other stuff having been added. Also sounds like it is up to you concerning doing an MLF.

Apparently the yeast, which they put in the bottom of the bucket does not have a high nutrient need. Otherwise they would either have told you to ad nutrient or they have already added it. That is a big question mark. I believe. I would sure ask specifically about nutrients. Then again, maybe the yeast they pitched has a low nutrient need. (???) Do they tell you what yeast was added?


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## Bartman (Apr 12, 2012)

I know we all want to end up with the best possible wine, but I believe you guys are over-thinking this! Mosti Mondiale's Chile Fresco is probably the easiest wine there is to make - everything is ready to go once it defrosts, no *need* to test, balance,or supplement in any way (of course, if you want to do those things, you can, but it's not necessary). The wine I have made from frozen juice has been some of my very best, except for wine from fresh grapes. Some say it may be a little 'thin', but I don't feel that way. Good structure, good acidity/alcohol. And it's easy - no grapes to press, about the same amount of sediment as a high end kit wine. All you really have to decide is three things - how long to bulk age, how much/what kind of oak to use, and whether to do MLF. No water to be added, no yeast rehydration, no agonizing over which yeast to use - just warm it up and let 'er rip!


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## robie (Apr 12, 2012)

Bartman said:


> I know we all want to end up with the best possible wine, but I believe you guys are over-thinking this! Mosti Mondiale's Chile Fresco is probably the easiest wine there is to make - everything is ready to go once it defrosts, no *need* to test, balance,or supplement in any way (of course, if you want to do those things, you can, but it's not necessary). The wine I have made from frozen juice has been some of my very best, except for wine from fresh grapes. Some say it may be a little 'thin', but I don't feel that way. Good structure, good acidity/alcohol. And it's easy - no grapes to press, about the same amount of sediment as a high end kit wine. All you really have to decide is three things - how long to bulk age, how much/what kind of oak to use, and whether to do MLF. No water to be added, no yeast rehydration, no agonizing over which yeast to use - just warm it up and let 'er rip!



Nah, not over-thinking it, just wanting to know the facts so one can exercise a degree of control.

As I said, I have never done a frozen bucket, so I have no idea what to expect.

Still, it seems unusual that they would not do "anything" except pre-pitch the yeast. However, if I think about it, it sort of becomes obvious they pre-pitch the yeast so just in case the bucket thaws out before it is supposed to, at least wild, native yeast won't be able to start the fermentation.

Sorry, I'm not one to just "let 'er rip!" 
I even enjoy picking my own yeast strain.


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## shoebiedoo (Apr 12, 2012)

I believe the L'uva Bella juices are laced with ec-1118 which would explain why you don't need nutrients.


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## Momdrann (Apr 12, 2012)

harleydmn said:


> Luck,
> I thought this site was for all of us to help each other out, and no question was a dumb question. Now I'm told to figuring out on my own and get a notebook! I guess I was hoping for some more info about yeast nutrients and energizer.



My apology for misinterpreting my post. The suggestion about getting a notebook was to keep track of what works, how you overcome problems, and how to remember what you have done to each batch. The buckets are supposed to be Acid adjusted, but I titrate each time and have found the actual TA to vary from year to year. There are no instructions that come with a bucket, which is why it is helpful to talk to people at wine supply stores and look at kit instructions to guide you on how to complete the wine making process.
The amount of yeast nutrient to use is on the package, I need to use it to get the yeast I'm pitching an advantage over any other yeast. I don't use energizer .
I only meant that you should have fun with the buckets as you are more on your own than with a kit where you are following their instructions.
Wishing you a successful wine making experience


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## Brent2489 (Apr 13, 2012)

INSTRUCTIONS???

I have been getting fresh juice in Oct (California) and May (Chile) from the LHBS for the past 2 years. 
The only instruction I ever got was: "Don't spill the juice on the carpet of your Ford Explorer." 
Last couple of times I have borrowed a pickup truck. Much less worry about spilling.  

The one batch I got last Oct is currently in bottles and is FABULOUS!! (If I do say so myself.)

All I do with them is keep in 70-75 degrees until under 1.00 and then rack to carboy, degass (whip and vacuum) at about 20-30 days. From then on its racking from carboy to carboy with sulfite every 90 days. When it tastes good, into a bottle and onto the dinner table.


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## Julie (Apr 13, 2012)

shoebiedoo said:


> I believe the L'uva Bella juices are laced with ec-1118 which would explain why you don't need nutrients.


 
That is correct.


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## SBWs (Apr 13, 2012)

A bit surprised by reading; I just picked up my Riesling Juice Bucket tonight and the reading were S.G. 1.096, pH 3.1 and Acid 3.25. First two seem in range however the acid seem low to me. However, I've never dealt with Riesling Juice before so what do I know. Should the acid be this low? I'm figuring with that low of pH I can really up the acid to much so I figure on waiting until after ferment and see what the numbers look like then. 

I did split into 3 1/2 and 2 1/2 primaries. The 2 1/2 I added 4 quarts of steamed blueberry juice to it. The pH was 3.0 and the acid was 3.5 however the S.G. dropped to 1.080. I haven't added any sugar and am still undecided if I'll add any to up the S.G.. I know if this wine taste anything like the juice, I got a good one coming. It was all I could do to keep from drinking the juice it taste so good. The blueberry flavor jumped right out and was so smooth.


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## Rock (Apr 14, 2012)

The acid does not sound right to me.It has to be much higher then that.Did you do your own acid test on it?or is that what the bucket is marked?


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## SBWs (Apr 14, 2012)

Yes, I did my own test. Used a pH meter, 15 ml wine sample, add 0.2N NaOH solution. It took 3.25 ml for the first one and 3.5 ml for the second one to get to 8.2 on the pH meter. I calibrated the meter and even check the first one 3 times, came up the same all three times. My NaOH is a few months old. I'm thinking (which can be dangerous at time) if my NaOH is weak from being old then my readings would be high not low because it would take more to get to 8.2.


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## Rock (Apr 14, 2012)

Thats how i do my test just that i add 5mls of distilled water to the 15mls of wine.Then i add my .2n solution.So your getting a reading of .325 you should be looking to get a reading of .7 on a white wine.


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## SBWs (Apr 14, 2012)

I figured I should be higher, matter of fact the first time I did the test I added 5 ml of .2n NaOH right off the bat figuring it would be at least that high and the ph meter went up to 11 so I had to dump that sample and start from scratch.

With the pH reading 3.1 I figure I'll finish ferment and test again with a new bottle of NaOH.


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## Rock (Apr 15, 2012)

SBWs said:


> I figured I should be higher, matter of fact the first time I did the test I added 5 ml of .2n NaOH right off the bat figuring it would be at least that high and the ph meter went up to 11 so I had to dump that sample and start from scratch.
> 
> With the pH reading 3.1 I figure I'll finish ferment and test again with a new bottle of NaOH.


You have to go slow a few drops at a time.Do not dump it in.


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