# Exploding Bottles (welcome back from vacaction!)



## Elmer (Jul 22, 2013)

went to Hershey PA for a few days. Upon my return I headed down to the cellar to grab a bottle only to find that 3 out of my 5 blueberry Poms has shattered. 
I know up here in the Northeast we had some hot weather, high 90's in PA and atleast 95 at home in NY. My neighbor who was house watching to me we had a very intense thunderstorm for about 10 minutes after a 97 degree day. 
3 out of 5 bottles burst, but why didnt the other 2?
Now I know it is not far enough of a fall for them to have fell and broke (and this would not have caused glass inside crate).

I did use synthetic corks and wraped the tops in the shrink wrap. I know people have spoken of having corks pop out, which I have never had happen. Could I not have properly degassed and since the corks could not pop, just blew the bottle apart?

Could it have been heat? 
Change In pressure? 
Storm? 
Not proper degassing?

And how would anyone approach cleaning the shards of glass on the remaining bottles? Would you still drink then after clearing glass off them?


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## Bartman (Jul 22, 2013)

Fascinating - it's just like CSI! Where is the wine that spilled? The wood crate and floor look pretty clean - why is not a sticky and stained-floor mess? Perhaps your neighbor got into your stash, drank the wine and then broke bottles deliberately to make it look like an accident!

Assuming no criminal activity involved, I would suspect sudden pressure and temperature changes, coupled with some fermentation in the bottle (did you back-sweeten? how about adding sufficient sulfite and sorbate before bottling?), led to the explosions. Properly corked and sealed with foil, the corks may have simply been too tight to be pushed out, before the glass broke. I'll bet you used #9 corks rather than #8, right? (#9s are slightly larger than #8s)


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## JohnT (Jul 22, 2013)

I agree with bartman. 

Most synthetic corks are rather tight. This means that a lot more pressure will build in the bottle before it pops out. The heat could have definitely kicked off a fermentation. Was the wine dry?

Why the 2 and not all? 

My guess is this... You have the wine on a concrete floor that was (I assume) cool. this means the the bottom bottle were kept cooler than the top ones and, therefore, did not build up as much pressure. (this is just a guess).


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## Runningwolf (Jul 22, 2013)

...and back to Barts question, why no mess?


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

I would say you have a problem with your house sitter, not your wine.
Come on man.....that wood looks like it has not been sealed...wine would be all over it, and deep in to the wood...even if it was sealed, there would be wine everywhere....
some body had a party.


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

and by the way, if that much pressure was build up in the bottle the corks would blow first....weakest part the bottle wine, is the cork.
and none of the necks are broke....
test the theory: fill some wine bottles with water, and cork.
hold the bottle with a gloved hand, and hit the bottle with a hammer..
you will see the same kind of break...


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## Julie (Jul 22, 2013)

Well I am in agreement with others, there should have been a mess and the cork would have blown first. I don't think the shrink wrap is that tough to hold the cork in.


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

as for the rest of the bottles...rinse them in the sink with water, and drink the heck out of them before your house sitters comes back.


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## Bartman (Jul 22, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> as for the rest of the bottles...rinse them in the sink with water, and drink the heck out of them before your house sitters comes back.


Oh, yeah, forgot about that part of the question. Rinse the bottles off and drink up! You never know when 'disaster' may strike again!


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## Elmer (Jul 22, 2013)

I rule out my house sitter, since I give him bottles of everything I make all the time.

There was no mess because all the wine dried up. The bottles on the bottom were sticky in a BluePom and glass. If this were to have happed on Thursday, there would have been atleast 4 days of hot weather for the wine to evaporate!

When I sprayed the floor with one step to clean it turned that weird purple that happens when One step cleans bad stuff.

Yes I used #9 corks.
I did back sweeten, but I sorbated/Kmeta prior.

The only conclusion I could make was that there was some pressure and they blew apart.
They bottles were no more than 6 inches from the floor and if the did slide and drop and break this would not have caused the glass to fly back into the crate leaving wine all over the bottles.

I was going to go all CSI as my wife suggested, but I was too tired from a 5 hour drive. I just cleaned the mess, cried a bit and threw the glass out!


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

what ever..but i dont see one spec of wine on the wood, wood is porous.
I dont see any wine on the white and blue blanket to the left,it would have wine all over it...
but, believe what you may...common sense dictates that much pressure would have blown the corks and the shrink wrap first..


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## yakhunter (Jul 22, 2013)

I would immediately drink one of the other ones and see if it is fizzy. It was surely hot, but I doubt your basement got up to 95 degrees! How hot is your basement on a hot day?

You could recreate teh crime by leaving a bottle in a hot (95-100 F) car with the windows rolled up to see if a bottle explodes. Don't use your own car though. Maybe that neighbor of yours....

I can't imagine that the pressure diff in that space would be enough to explode a bottle. A passing T-storm should not drop pressure that much.


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## jswordy (Jul 22, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> what ever..but i dont see one spec of wine on the wood, wood is porous.
> I dont see any wine on the white and blue blanket to the left,it would have wine all over it...
> but, believe what you may...common sense dictates that much pressure would have blown the corks and the shrink wrap first..



Ima start calling you Leroy Jethro Gibbs!  

After watching NCIS examine blood spatters one zillion times, I agree with James that if something fell on the bottles and busted them there would be less mess, since the wine would basically fall downward due to gravity except for a few splashes. But an exploding bottle would throw wine all over the place.

So, to mix my crime story metaphors, it looks like it was the house sitter dropping the candlestick (or something).

Elmer: Heck, why not just ask and explain that you are not mad or accusing but just trying to figure out the mystery?

Another way to eliminate or confirm is to pull the cork on a good bottle and be very attentive to whether you hear a "pop" (air entering from outside) or a "whoosh" (gas being expelled). If the cork comes out and gas is expelled when it does, and if a wine sample is gassy, you have your answer. You can always recork after checking.

Normal variation in barometric pressure will not do this, so that's out.

(yakhunter was typing while I was, apparently.)


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## Elmer (Jul 22, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> what ever..but i dont see one spec of wine on the wood, wood is porous.
> I dont see any wine on the white and blue blanket to the left,it would have wine all over it...
> but, believe what you may...common sense dictates that much pressure would have blown the corks and the shrink wrap first..



The blanket is actually hanging slightly above the bottles. It is covering bottles to the left. The angle of the photo makes the blanket look like it is on the floor, but it is not.

I agree there is no splatter, no spray.
But the bottles below the glass has splatyer!!!!!
In all my years I have never had anything like this happen.
I think I will drink a bottle rather then blow up another one!


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## Julie (Jul 22, 2013)

If there was a bad storm, that would chance the barometer pressure and yes you would have had a cork pop. I have had this happen but not an exploding bottle, nor can I see a re-fermenting wine cause a bottle to explode. The cork should have shot across the room first.


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## Sammyk (Jul 22, 2013)

jswordy We are with you, call Gibbs. We never miss his show and even watch reruns! On another note, we read that Ziva is leaving! booohhooo. Thought she would hook up with Tony.


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## jswordy (Jul 22, 2013)

Sammyk said:


> jswordy We are with you, call Gibbs. We never miss his show and even watch reruns! On another note, we read that Ziva is leaving! booohhooo. Thought she would hook up with Tony.



(I always hoped she would hook up with me!) 

Remember this episode? 





Oops, I am OFF TOPIC!  DON'T TELL JULIE!!!!


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

thats ok, blows my cork...lol


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## Bartman (Jul 22, 2013)

The only time I have had a cork pop out of a normally-sealed bottle was when I left it in my car during a hot Texas afternoon (I know - what was I thinking? But I was on my way to deliver it as a gift and got sidetracked on the way). You know those horror stories about kids left in cars on hot days? Well, it was not *that* bad, but it was a sad and red-wine-messy situation inside my car. Note: only one bottled popped, the other two with it were fine (though somewhat worse for the high temperatures/cooking).
Never had the glass break, even when corking, so I have no idea what sort of pressure differential would be necessary to break the glass. 
Still, my theory remains: pressure buildup inside from re-fermentation after back-sweetening + warm temperature (=warmer wine than when bottled = greater pressure inside) + sudden drop in barometric pressure outside due to thunderstorm => high pressure inside and low pressure outside, along with tightly sealed #9 corks => glass on top/side of bottle (which is thinner than the glass in the neck, I think) breaks under pressure from *air* inside the bottle, because the bottles were on their side! And perhaps the breaking glass of one bottle damaged or created enough disturbance to another bottle enough to break it too!


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## Arne (Jul 22, 2013)

Elmer, I would carefully put one of the bottles in the refrigerator, cool it down, then open it. If they are full of pressure, it will help relieve it some. Don't know where I read it, but somewhere it says wine fermenting in bottles can build up to 90 lbs. pressure. Think that is at least close to being enough to break a bottle. Then say you have a weak spot in one so it lets go, the pieces hitting another could pop it. Just guessing,Think I'm saying about the same thing as Bartman. Arne.


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## Julie (Jul 22, 2013)

JSWORDY!!!!!! BUSTED! You keep this up and you will be spending time in the corner with Runningwolf!


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

lol, too funny


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## Elmer (Jul 22, 2013)

Bartman said:


> The only time I have had a cork pop out of a normally-sealed bottle was when I left it in my car during a hot Texas afternoon (I know - what was I thinking? But I was on my way to deliver it as a gift and got sidetracked on the way). You know those horror stories about kids left in cars on hot days? Well, it was that bad, but it was a sad and red-wine-messy situation inside my car. Note: only one bottled popped, the other two with it were fine (though somewhat worse for the high temperatures/cooking).
> Never had the glass break, even when corking, so I have no idea what sort of pressure differential would be necessary to break the glass.
> Still, my theory remains: pressure buildup inside from re-fermentation after back-sweetening + warm temperature (=warmer wine than when bottled = greater pressure inside) + sudden drop in barometric pressure outside due to thunderstorm => high pressure inside and low pressure outside, along with tightly sealed #9 corks => glass on top/side of bottle (which is thinner than the glass in the neck, I think) breaks under pressure from *air* inside the bottle, because the bottles were on their side! And perhaps the breaking glass of one bottle damaged or created enough disturbance to another bottle enough to break it too!



I am going with Bartman's explanation.
There is just no way for a bottle to drop 6 inches and shatter backwards. And the only person home is my cat who loves me way to much to destroy my wine.
Otherwise I can not think of anything that would have dropped on them or otherwise caused them to pop, except gas and pressure or a someone on the grassy knoll!


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## Sammyk (Jul 22, 2013)

The CAT did it. He/she climbed up on the shelf and tumbled them down.


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## Sammyk (Jul 22, 2013)

I can see that happening. Cat jumps up there one bottle falls off, scares the he!! out of the cat and in a hurry to get away knocked more bottles on the floor. Did you smell the cats breathe and look for cuts on its feet?

Jethro would be proud of me. LOL! LOL!


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## Sammyk (Jul 22, 2013)

Julie I will go to the corner now with Dan and Jim. My bad!


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

u guys all in trouble today...glad im being good..i hate scolding from julie.


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## LAgreeneyes (Jul 22, 2013)

This thread IS better than CSI. *popping popcorn in my mouth and sipping on my strawberry wine while I wait to read the next post.*


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## cedarswamp (Jul 22, 2013)

Elmer how much airspace did you have in those bottles?


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 22, 2013)

i think elmer drank his dragon blood, got mad cause he was out, and took it out on the other bottles.....shame on you.


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## DaveL (Jul 22, 2013)

By chance did you put corks in screw cap bottles? These would be weaker than nonscrew caps ( the ones that didn't break).


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## Tess (Jul 22, 2013)

Maybe a drunk house setter not meaning too stumbled into it. He feels bad and guilty. He is sticking with the "Hmm, I sure dont know what happened" Story!


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## FTC Wines (Jul 22, 2013)

I had a similar thing happen to me. I had 22bottles of Peach wine, thankfully stored in an 18 gal. Tote, sitting on my basement floor in No. Ga. Aprox 68* very steady temp & pressure. Well 12 bottles BLEW UP, never heard them but started smelling something rotten in the winery & went looking. CSI wife thought it was from back sweetening, but why didn't the other 10 bottles blow? this was before I knew about de-gassing, but again why did only 12 bottles blow? The other 10 bottles were fine, didn't see anything different & didn't taste any different. We called Gibbs to see if we could borrow Abby, but she was too busy! This was over 4 years ago, have NOT had a problem since. Roy


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## Elmer (Jul 22, 2013)

so I got home and ran a 6 pack over to my neighbor who has sat. I told him what happened and asked how hot it was on thurs/fri. Darn hot he responded. 70 by 7 am. I asked if I could use his car for a controlled experiment. No deal. Did not even offer me one of the IPA I bought him!

Anyway I get home I pulled one of the remaining bottles of BluePom. Told my wife to listen for a pop or a hush, to determine if there is air or gas in there. I get the bottle on the counter and pull the cork, my wife has her head close to the bottle and we hear a *POP* Then immediately the wine erupted out of the bottle like a science fair volcano!
All over the counter and all over the mini throw rug.
Gave what was left in the bottle a taste and it was bubbly.

Could the heat have re-ignited fermentation? (even thought I add sorbate prior to bottling)
Should I be concerned about all the other bottles of wine in my basement?


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## Loner (Jul 22, 2013)

Sounds like the sitter is off the hook....unless he sabotaged the remaining unbroken bottles to make you think it was your fault. It may take Jethro and Tony to solve this one.


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## Julie (Jul 22, 2013)

how old was your sorbate and where do you store it at?


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## Sammyk (Jul 22, 2013)

Not to hijack but where should sorbate be stored?


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## Runningwolf (Jul 22, 2013)

Cool dark place. Replace every 6-8 months.


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## Sammyk (Jul 22, 2013)

Dan as in refrigerator? IF so I guess I better throw mine out......


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## Tess (Jul 22, 2013)

Glad you got to the bottom of it. Mine never last that long lol It never comes dated either!


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## Tess (Jul 22, 2013)

you have some powerfully set corks!! You still would think they would blow before the bottle would


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## tonyt (Jul 23, 2013)

Degas and re-sorbate the wine. Clean the bottles. Send the blanket to JSWordy. Drown the cat. Get a new neighbor. Take back the IPA.


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## Julie (Jul 23, 2013)

Sammyk, like Dan says in a cool dark place. I keep mine in the frig and I have heard where others keep in the freezer. Sorbate is only good for 6 months but if you keep it in the frig you can get a year.


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## JohnT (Jul 23, 2013)

just to get some closure... 

"Blunk-Blunk" ("law and order" sound effect) 

(Fade-in).

Judge: "Madam foreman, have you reached a verdict?"

(Elderly lady stands up): "Yes we have your honor. We the jury, in the matter of the "busted bottles", have found the defendant "hot weather/bad or no sorbate/and back sweetened" guilty on all charges. So say we all".

johnT.


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## Elmer (Jul 23, 2013)

I have always kept my sorbate in my bucket of supplies.
I may have to buy another batch and keep it in the fridge.
I know I put sorbate in before I backsweeten.
I really hope my last 10 bottles of DB do not suffer the same fate.
You will all hear my screams if that is the case.

Of course the only wine in my basement with sugar in it is DB.
So all other bottles should be safe!

I should mention once I open the bottle there was no wine left to degass because it all blew out of the bottle!


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## clight385 (Jul 23, 2013)

I have a data sheet from a manufacturer that says shelf life for sorbate is minimum 2 years from manufacture date. I just ordered some nutrients & tannin from Brew & Wine and Doug included shelf life & manufacture dates for each item. I don't have the paperwork with me, but a few were 3 years if stored properly. I didn’t order sorbate so not sure if an info sheet comes with it. 

View attachment Potassium Sorbate pec.pdf


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## chrisjw (Jul 23, 2013)

Hey judge, wait, we have new evidence that the neighbor may have entered the house and replaced the sorbate with sugar. Possible reason is that plaintiff did not share enough of his wine with defendant. Who's guilty now!


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## wineforfun (Jul 23, 2013)

clight385 said:


> I have a data sheet from a manufacturer that says shelf life for sorbate is minimum 2 years from manufacture date. I just ordered some nutrients & tannin from Brew & Wine and Doug included shelf life & manufacture dates for each item. I don't have the paperwork with me, but a few were 3 years if stored properly. I didn’t order sorbate so not sure if an info sheet comes with it.



Thanks for the pdf. I hope it is right as I would assume it would be. 6 months seems awfully short for life expectancy on sorbate.


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## jswordy (Jul 23, 2013)

Julie said:


> Sammyk, like Dan says in a cool dark place.



This is where Julie has Dan in the corner - in a cool dark place! He managed to get McGeek to sneak out an email to me when she wasn't looking...


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## jswordy (Jul 23, 2013)

Elmer said:


> I should mention once I open the bottle there was no wine left to degass because it all blew out of the bottle!



Now THAT I would like to see a pic of!!!


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## jswordy (Jul 23, 2013)

wineforfun said:


> Thanks for the pdf. I hope it is right as I would assume it would be. 6 months seems awfully short for life expectancy on sorbate.



It's highly stable. The wine blew most probably for one of two reasons:

1. No degassed. Bottled cool, and the warm temps released the gas.

2. Spontaneous malolactic fermentation, which happens more than people suspect. In a university study of commercial wineries, they found malo spontaneously occurring as part of the process in some and the winemaker didn't even know!


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## Sammyk (Jul 23, 2013)

Not to hijack but I could not resist. Julie could send Dan here to our cellar, it is dark and cool. THEN we would learn first hand how to make better wine! Jim, of course you could come to because I think you would also be a good personal teacher.
Ah but then we would have to turn on the light and it would no longer be dark......


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 23, 2013)

you should have used beano on it, instead of sorbate


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## Runningwolf (Jul 23, 2013)

Sammyk said:


> Not to hijack but I could not resist. Julie could send Dan here to our cellar, it is dark and cool. THEN we would learn first hand how to make better wine! Jim, of course you could come to because I think you would also be a good personal teacher.
> Ah but then we would have to turn on the light and it would no longer be dark......



Ok, first off I'm not going to touch the line about the light.

As far as you guys learning first hand how to make better wine, that's not how it would work. You see, I have also learned a lot right here on this forum. We all learn from each other. I am sure there are things I would learn from you or Jim (even if it's "not what to do when building a wine cellar" "). Bottom line is we all learn from each other and each others mistakes. I've made a few myself like putting a 1.5L bottle of wine in my 100° car.


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## jamesngalveston (Jul 23, 2013)

well said, thank you....I know i have made many, but with the help here, they are fewer and fewer...I hope that one day, I have something to contribute...that will be use full for others.


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## Hokapsig (Jul 23, 2013)

Dan, NOW you tell me not to put a wine bottle in a hot car with the windows rolled up. DOH!!!

I have only learned this lesson 3 times this summer. I figure I have at least 2 more to go....


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## Wade E (Jul 23, 2013)

Ive had the shrink wraps on top hold the cork back before so yes they are strong enough to hold the cork and therefore the bottle blows. I also left 2 bottles standing straight up in my old car once and both corks blew and hit the headliner, luckily on those 2 no wine came out and sprayed the inside of my car. The car incident was from heat but the cellar incident with the shrink wrap holding the corks on and bottles blowing was from a small amount of fermentation in the bottles. It was barely enough to notice any sediment but non the less it was there. I would open a bottle and see if there is any sediment in there at all and if its a little fizzy at all.


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## Elmer (Jul 24, 2013)

Now that I think of it:
I drove around last wednesday with 2 bottles of DB in my trunk. I was giving them to 2 guys I golf with.
Last Wednesday was 95 degrees and the bottles were warm after spending the day in trunk of my black car.

I most likely used the same sorbate I used on the bluepom.
Of course I have not received any nasty phone calls or emails.
So hopefully these bottles did not explode on them either!

I have 1 bottle of Bluepom left. I will see if I can capture the eruption!


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## clight385 (Jul 24, 2013)

I suspect a combination of internal pressure and weak glass. Wine is shipped cross country all the time with no issues and elevated temperature alone should not break a wine bottle. Add in some fermentation with thermo expansion (remember pressure is additive) and you could be in trouble. Wine bottles are not design to hold carbonation like a coke bottle. 
Another note: If you put the bottle back together and look at the glass fragments, a low number of large pieces indicate a low force was needed to break the glass. If you had lots of smaller pieces it would indicate a high force was need to break the glass.


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## Sammyk (Jul 24, 2013)

clight385 excellent post. I did look at the busted bottles because a drop would cause large pieces IMHO that is why I thought of the cat.
Having a bottle spray everywhere as I had a few weeks ago, made me wonder why it sprayed and did not blow the bottle off the wine racks. I still think it was the cat. If was Co2 or re-fermentation I think it would have sprayed the wine. Perhaps the cat heard the spraying sound and investigated and then knocked the bottles down. Cats are curious critters and investigators. 

On the other hand the spray pattern would have indicated if it was spray or a broken bottle. It does not appear from the photos to be a huge mess other than a broken bottle. From my spraying bottle it did not go far but having dropped and broke a bottle of wine on cement, the force of the drop sent the wine much farther out than the sprayed bottle did from the impact on the cement.


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## clight385 (Jul 24, 2013)

It really depends on the strength of the glass, a bottle with a severe flaw might only take 30 psi to break, where a normal wine bottle should hold about 150 psi. Your spraying bottle might have been under more pressure. In your situation the lower bottle might have broken and caused the upper bottles to side off and break, the first break would be internal pressure and the others could possibly be from impact.
By examining the fracture origin (if you can find it) will tell you if the breakage was internal pressure or impact, they leave a distinct marking or finger print.


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## winojoe (Jul 29, 2013)

Sounds like time to switch to champagne bottles & closures.

How full were the bottles? Maybe the wine expanded from the heat and had nowhere to go except outward. Usually the cork will pop, but not if the capsule prevented that from happening.


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