# New Barrel



## WillShill (Feb 17, 2021)

Hello everyone I have made a few kits over about 3 years and have purchased an oak barrel 20 litres, I have a Mosti Mondiale Malbec ageing in a PET carboy until July when I intend to barrel age.
As I haven’t tried this before I was considering using a previously bottled Winexpert Diablo Roja as a guinea pig, the Diablo was disappointing and I had decided to bottle age for a few years to see if it improved. Will it spoil the new barrel? Any views opinions very welcome. Thanks


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## Johnd (Feb 18, 2021)

WillShill said:


> Hello everyone I have made a few kits over about 3 years and have purchased an oak barrel 20 litres, I have a Mosti Mondiale Malbec ageing in a PET carboy until July when I intend to barrel age.
> As I haven’t tried this before I was considering using a previously bottled Winexpert Diablo Roja as a guinea pig, the Diablo was disappointing and I had decided to bottle age for a few years to see if it improved. Will it spoil the new barrel? Any views opinions very welcome. Thanks


No, it won’t spoil the barrel unless it has some sort of infection, so give it a try! Be mindful of new, small barrels, the wine will pick up oak flavor very quickly, so you’ll need to have a few wines available to keep it full.


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## WillShill (Feb 18, 2021)

Johnd said:


> No, it won’t spoil the barrel unless it has some sort of infection, so give it a try! Be mindful of new, small barrels, the wine will pick up oak flavor very quickly, so you’ll need to have a few wines available to keep it full.


So if I’m understanding you correctly I’ll need to refill my barrel after first use to keep it wet, that’s quite an undertaking to continually fill it with wine, I’d need lots of kits ageing in carboy etc, can I rest the barrel and fill with water or any other neutral liquid?


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## Johnd (Feb 18, 2021)

WillShill said:


> So if I’m understanding you correctly I’ll need to refill my barrel after first use to keep it wet, that’s quite an undertaking to continually fill it with wine, I’d need lots of kits ageing in carboy etc, can I rest the barrel and fill with water or any other neutral liquid?



You certainly can fill it with something else like water with k-meta in it to keep it sanitized, but the oaky goodness will leach out into the water, just like it will with wine. It's harder to keep filled with the little barrels, where your first wine might reach the oak level you want in about 4 weeks, second wine around 8 weeks, third wine around 16 weeks, and so on. 

The other option you might consider, is to clean it out well after the first wine, then burn a sulfur stick in it, then put the bung in for storage. IIRC, that treatment will maintain the barrel in a sanitary condition for a month or so, as long as you don't open it up. The sulfur stick burning can be repeated as necessary, just don't let the barrel dry out. Check my times on how long it lasts before you commit to it, I'm going by memory, which is a bit sketchy these days.......


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## WillShill (Feb 18, 2021)

Thanks for your advice, I’ve one kit bottled, one ageing and one finishing Extended Maceration I think maybe I should get another one or two fermenting and maybe late this year start the barrel process on all the kits that way I can have the barrel wet for at least six to eight months. I’ll have to start planning and taking notes.


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## jgmillr1 (Feb 18, 2021)

Johnd said:


> You certainly can fill it with something else like water with k-meta in it to keep it sanitized, but the oaky goodness will leach out into the water, just like it will with wine. It's harder to keep filled with the little barrels, where your first wine might reach the oak level you want in about 4 weeks, second wine around 8 weeks, third wine around 16 weeks, and so on.


This is very true. A small new barrel will age the wine sufficiently in like 3 months to upwards of 6 if you like it oaky. That should give you time to get another batch ready to go into the barrel. You can keep it moist in between batches with water, meta and _*citric acid*_ to simulate wine but you will slowly lose the oaky goodness of the barrel over time.


Johnd said:


> The other option you might consider, is to clean it out well after the first wine, then burn a sulfur stick in it, then put the bung in for storage.


I've burned the sulfur sticks in my barrels and they work well. If you go this route, be sure to turn the barrel upside down and let the water drip out for 24 hours to remove pooled water before you burn the sulfur stick. Stick a wad of a paper towel in the bung to sop up the water an keep fruit flies out. Note that the barrel will dry out even with this process but the sulfur stick method is a good bridge if there is only like a month between filling it again.


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## Johnd (Feb 18, 2021)

WillShill said:


> Thanks for your advice, I’ve one kit bottled, one ageing and one finishing Extended Maceration I think maybe I should get another one or two fermenting and maybe late this year start the barrel process on all the kits that way I can have the barrel wet for at least six to eight months. I’ll have to start planning and taking notes.


It's a good plan to have few kits on hand to put into the barrel. Once you get through the first few kits and are leaving them in for months rather than weeks, it gets a lot easier to manage. At some point, even after 6 months of sitting, the barrel won't be oaking to your liking (for me, it usually took til about 1.5 years of use to get there), you can start adding oak adjuncts to the wine while it's in the barrel. Keep in mind that micro-oxidation is also increased in these smaller barrels, I always tried to get mine out after a max sit of 6 months, never had any oxidation issues at 6 months. At that time frame, it really smooths your wine out, you'll be glad you invested in a barrel.


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## jgmillr1 (Feb 18, 2021)

WillShill said:


> Thanks for your advice, I’ve one kit bottled, one ageing and one finishing Extended Maceration I think maybe I should get another one or two fermenting and maybe late this year start the barrel process on all the kits that way I can have the barrel wet for at least six to eight months. I’ll have to start planning and taking notes.


Maybe by this fall you can score some grapes and be able to put that wine in your barrel for the year. I swear the best wine I made was a cab franc that aged in a little 5gal barrel.


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## WillShill (Feb 18, 2021)

jgmillr1 said:


> Maybe by this fall you can score some grapes and be able to put that wine in your barrel for the year. I swear the best wine I made was a cab franc that aged in a little 5gal barrel.


If only, I’m in Northern Ireland and we are too far north to grow grapes, With all this global warming maybe in the future, I’ll have to stick to kits unfortunately.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 18, 2021)

WillShill said:


> Thanks for your advice, I’ve one kit bottled, one ageing and one finishing Extended Maceration I think maybe I should get another one or two fermenting and maybe late this year start the barrel process on all the kits that way I can have the barrel wet for at least six to eight months. I’ll have to start planning and taking notes.



It's good to have 3 batches ready for the barrel. And start a 4th when the first wine goes in.  A 20-23 liter barrel will take its first wine for probably just 4-5 weeks (maybe less, depending on the wine). 2nd wine maybe 6 or 7, third as much as 10 weeks. Certainly taste along the way to be sure - let the wine get to be a little more oaky than you think you want, as the oak will drop off some after it's out of the barrel. After those 3 batches, you can likely go 3+ months and just top up and keep your sulfite levels in the appropriate range.


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## AcreageWine (May 10, 2021)

I have a small 23l barrel, just finished to batches back to back. One thing I had not planned on is how fast the new small barrel would impart the oak to the wine. Really just a matter of weeks. as a result I am not ready for the next batch to go in the barrel but I dont wan to fill it with water and loose that wonderful taste to the water. With it being a small barrel I found that there were no off the shelf holders to use for the sulfur stick. I ended up making one from a 1/2 inch aluminum tube as my bung opening is only 5/8 (I decided not to drill it our to a larger size). I cut the sulfur stick down to fit my holder and It burned okay (75%) but not completely. I repeated the process a few times to make sure I have enough off gas in the barrel.

Does anyone have better ideas , design, experience with using sulfur sticks in a small barrel?


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## Johnd (May 10, 2021)

AcreageWine said:


> I have a small 23l barrel, just finished to batches back to back. One thing I had not planned on is how fast the new small barrel would impart the oak to the wine. Really just a matter of weeks. as a result I am not ready for the next batch to go in the barrel but I dont wan to fill it with water and loose that wonderful taste to the water. With it being a small barrel I found that there were no off the shelf holders to use for the sulfur stick. I ended up making one from a 1/2 inch aluminum tube as my bung opening is only 5/8 (I decided not to drill it our to a larger size). I cut the sulfur stick down to fit my holder and It burned okay (75%) but not completely. I repeated the process a few times to make sure I have enough off gas in the barrel.
> 
> Does anyone have better ideas , design, experience with using sulfur sticks in a small barrel?


That’s what I’d do with a once used barrel that has plenty more oak to give, it’s the best of both worlds. Keep up with the stick burning and you’ll be ready to go when wine #2 comes of age.


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## winemaker81 (May 15, 2021)

@AcreageWine, also start batch #3 about the same time. Each successive usage will take longer in the barrel, but for the first year, the time frame for each is fairly short.


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## SLM (Jun 11, 2021)

Does anybody know anything about Bochart barrels?
Big Oak Barrels — Bochart | Hand Made Oak Barrels USA


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## SLM (Jun 11, 2021)

I was tempted to try one of their barrels but on further investigation they seem like a sketchy company.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 11, 2021)

tons of fake scammer sites for home winemaking barrels out there. A company doesn’t even exist usually. But you’ll see fake positive reviews and you know the deal.

Then you’ll see A handful of bad real reviews pop up and people alerting it’s a scam— then website shuts down. Then rinse repeat.
Not saying this website is that. But it does exist in this little niché barrel market.


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## SLM (Jun 11, 2021)

Ah, thanks for the info. Yeah I almost got sucked in but saw too many red flags.


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## mainshipfred (Jun 11, 2021)

SLM said:


> Ah, thanks for the info. Yeah I almost got sucked in but saw too many red flags.



I get barrels once a year but it's too late for this year. There was a member that purchased American Oak barrels from a vendor that he really liked. I just can't remember who it was.


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## SLM (Jun 11, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I get barrels once a year but it's too late for this year. There was a member that purchased American Oak barrels from a vendor that he really liked. I just can't remember who it was.


Yeah I saw your thread earlier. At the time I thought I already have enough to learn without getting into barrels. Changed my mind.


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## SLM (Jun 11, 2021)

Well I don't want to beat a dead horse but... OK yeah I do. Dodged a bullet.
Amazon.ca:Customer reviews: 30L / 8 gallons Oak Barrel, Wood Cask


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## SLM (Jul 3, 2021)

So I acquired a new barrel, looks like 3G. Probably a few years old but unused, still in wrapper. I've been adding water for over a week because it has a slow leak that's not sealing. After several days it stinks of rotten egg sulfur. I added SO2 to the water thinking it would prevent such problems. It's unlikely I will use the barrel because of the leak, but why did this happen? How do I prevent it in future barrels?


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## winemaker81 (Jul 4, 2021)

@SLM, regarding the swelling, don't give up yet. I have a ~0.5 US gallon barrel I purchased as a novelty, supposed to be a party decanter. It sat in my attic for 25 years and was a dry as is possible -- wide cracks were visible between the staves. My attic is hotter than the sun during the summer, even with ridge vents and a strong vent fan. I decided to see if it would seal -- it took nearly 3 week, IIRC. [No, I'm not using it for wine. I have no idea what oak it is and swelled it as an experiment.]

Here's one site with tips for sealing barrels:

Barrel-Aging 101: How to Swell a Dry or Leaking Barrel - Midwest Barrel Company 

Regarding the smell, rotten eggs in wine means H2S, which is a serious problem. I searched for smells in barrels, and found nothing more than a sulfur being an after-effect of K-meta or burning sulfur.

My barrels were purchased used so I have no direct experience; hopefully those with experience can chime in.


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## SLM (Jul 4, 2021)

...which brings up another question. If you burn sulfur in a barrel for storage, aren't you introducing a sulfur smell? Do you need to do something to neutralize it?


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## sour_grapes (Jul 4, 2021)

Burning sulfur produces SO2 (sulfite), a burnt-match smell. Rotten egg is H2S (sulfide). I cannot imagine what caused that in your barrel.


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## mainshipfred (Jul 4, 2021)

If it's a new barrel I can't imagine why it would have H2S. If you were burning a sulfur stick you want to make sure the barrel is dry, otherwise I believe it produced sulfuric acid. Now as far as a 3 gallon barrel make sure it's toasted and not charred. That size barrel makes me believe it's a spirits barrel which are normally charred.


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## winemaker81 (Jul 4, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> If it's a new barrel I can't imagine why it would have H2S


That's my thought, but I don't have another explanation.

Once the barrel seals, soak it with a barrel treatment and see what the smell is afterward.


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## SLM (Jul 6, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Now as far as a 3 gallon barrel make sure it's toasted and not charred.



How do I tell the difference? I would guess toast is brown, char is black. It certainly looks black to me, so I would guess char. Is there such thing as medium char?


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## mainshipfred (Jul 8, 2021)

Black water is definitely a sign of a charred barrel. I don't know much about charred barrels but I believe they do come with different chars. Bourbon barrel wines are becoming more popular but I believe they are put in barrels that has already aged the spirit.


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## She’sgonnakillme (Jan 8, 2022)

SLM said:


> Does anybody know anything about Bochart barrels?
> Big Oak Barrels — Bochart | Hand Made Oak Barrels USA



I have a Bochart Special Edition 20L and a Vadai 20L. I like them both. Bochart is French oak and they will engrave for only $20. Stave thickness is the same on both.


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## SLM (Jan 9, 2022)

She’sgonnakillme said:


> I have a Bochart Special Edition 20L and a Vadai 20L. I like them both. Bochart is French oak and they will engrave for only $20. Stave thickness is the same on both.


Yes, I read your other thread on the subject. I'll be interested to know how well the Bochart seals up. Their return window is 14 days. Please keep us posted on your progress.


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## She’sgonnakillme (Jan 24, 2022)

SLM said:


> Yes, I read your other thread on the subject. I'll be interested to know how well the Bochart seals up. Their return window is 14 days. Please keep us posted on your progress.



No issues, sealed up perfectly!


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