# Need advice



## Ernest T Bass (Mar 9, 2012)

I am in the process of purchasing 30 muscadine vines from Ison's
10 ea Pam (Female)--10 ea Black Beauty (Female) and 10 ea Ison (Black 
Self-fertile - they tell me that this is a Male). Also purchasing 30 Blue X
Shelters.
Row 1= Female, 6 vines, Row length 120 ft
Row 2= Male----------Same------------
Row 3=Female--------"----------
Row 4=Female---------"-----------
Row 5=male--------"----------
Row 6=Female--------"--------
Three Cross Ties on each row, ends and center
12 gauge wire on top
T-Post between cross ties
Soil Sample and correct
This is my first time on a large scale so I need all the help and advice I can get.
Thanks
Semper Fi


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## Sacalait (Mar 10, 2012)

How far apart are the rows? Keep in mind that for proper pollination the rows can't be any further than 20' apart.


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## Ernest T Bass (Mar 10, 2012)

The rows will be 10 feet apart and 30 feet from the fence line. I figure wide enough to get a tractor and 7 ft bush hog between them. Does that sound alright?
Thanks
Semper Fi


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## Sacalait (Mar 10, 2012)

That sounds fine, good luck. BTW, how do you plan to do the picking? I do mine by hand one at a time which is quite time consuming.


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## Ernest T Bass (Mar 11, 2012)

I also plan on picking by hand, one at a time and only the ripe one. Put them in a zip lock bag and add to it as they ripen.

Wish me luck

Semper Fi


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## Sacalait (Mar 11, 2012)

Will you be using them all for wine or maybe selling for fresh eating? I sell most of mine for the fresh market but save enough for a couple batches of wine.


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## jtstar (Mar 11, 2012)

how far apart in the row 120 foot row sounds a little long for six vines


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## Ernest T Bass (Mar 12, 2012)

It looks like the rows will be 140 ft long now, 3 rows with females on the outside rows and males on the inside row. Each row will have 7 vines. There will be another 3 rows next to them, each row will have 3 vines and be 60 ft long. Plan on having 30 vines. Still haven't ordered them yet, been reading up on the different kinds of muscadines, Ison's suggest "Pam" which is a female and "Black Beauty" which is also a female and the center row to be 
"Ison" which is a male. Now, I'm wondering why I should have any females, the males are "Self-Fertile", got to do some more thinking on that matter.
Another question, I'm going to use telephone poles, cut to 7 ft for end post
(If I can get them, they are $.15/ft, when they have them) or cross-ties if I can't get the poles. How far apart should the poles/ties be on the run down the line, I plan on using T-Post between the poles. And how far apart should the T-Post be. I really don't know what I'm doing, but I'm gonna five it a try.

Thanks

Semper Fi


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## Sacalait (Mar 12, 2012)

Ison and Black beauty are good. Darlene would be my pick over pam, I have both. Consider planting a few sugar gates as these have a little different flavor over the others plus a high sugar content, it's my over all favorite for fresh eating.

I have "T" posts at 10' and 15' spacing. The 15' spacing is better (not as crowed and the sagging isn't bad). Also, 4' across the T's gives ample room to pick on the inside. 3' across the T's tends to make it a little too crowded.

See page "9" of this forum for (sacalait's muscadine vineyard) to get a better idea of how I did it.


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## Ernest T Bass (Mar 12, 2012)

Can't find page 9?? How far apart should the cross-ties be?
Thanks
Semper Fi


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## Sacalait (Mar 12, 2012)

15' spacing of the cross ties and 4' on the T's. It looks like the old threads (previous pages) have been deleted but just today I saw them, that's how I knew it was on page 9. Contact a moderator for help.

Go to main forum (Wine making and grape growing) then go to (Growing and vineyard). You'll see that you posted on page 14 so go back to page 9.


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## Ernest T Bass (Mar 12, 2012)

I now have figured that I can have 7 vines per row. Each row is 140 long, the vines will be spaced 20 feet apart. Does this sound right or should I put the vines closer together. I went to a winery today to look at their vines and they were only 10 ft apart. A lot of help needed, I want to do this right the first time. What do you think about planting all Ison - black self-fertile
Thanks
Semper Fi


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## jtstar (Mar 13, 2012)

Have you read From vine to wines it is a very good book for the beginner I have planted my vine ten feet apart in the rows I think this book would be a good one for you to read to help you out


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## Sacalait (Mar 13, 2012)

I planted at 15' spacing, one at each post.


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## Ernest T Bass (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, I did it. I ordered 21 Ison black. From what Ison tells me, they are the best for wine. I also ordered 13 Darline (Bronze - Females), they are the best for eating and Jelly. I also ordered 36 Blue x plant shelters and 2 of Ison's books on growing Muscadines. We'll see what happens in a couple of years. Wish me luck.

Semper Fi


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## garymc (Apr 10, 2012)

You should do well with the book. Although you will find a variety of different takes on some items. Some muscadine researchers and growers recommend against the grow tubes, others think they're a good idea. But when people talk about how they're planting or tending grapevines, be sure to determine if they're talking about muscadines. The trellising and spacing for muscadines is quite different. Many varieties of regular wine grapes are planted 6 or 8 feet apart, whereas muscadines are recommended to be 20 feet. I've scrouged some of mine as close as 16 feet, though. I would have the wire higher off the ground for muscadines. If you're going to pick individual grapes by hand, you want them up higher. I've been on my hands and knees under a vine, turning to look up and reach up with one hand and pick. I'm too old for that. It's like having a pasture to raise a few head. Cattle, bison, and elk would all require different fencing.


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## Ernest T Bass (Apr 11, 2012)

*Update on vineyard*

I made my rows 100 feet long with 5 vines per row and 9 rows. I finally got all my 4 X 4 post tight, when I set them we had just had a rain and some of the holes filled up with water -- you gotta do things when you got help. Used a sledge hammer and a 2 X 4, had to pack them 4 times to get them tight. Still have only 2 wires strung. I have 44 of the 45 vines with green leaves on them. Fertilized and limes, one handful of 13-13-13 around the vine about 12 to 18 inches away from trunk, spread the lime by hand and tried to cover the whole 100 feet by 100 feet equally so this fall I can get a soil sample and it be representive of all. Looking forward to picking lots of muscadines and scuppernongs in a couple of years.
Semper Fi


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## garymc (Apr 12, 2012)

I think you and Sacalait are talking about 2 different kinds of T posts. If I understand, Bud, you mean a steel fence post and I think Sacalait is talking about a post that looks like a clothes line pole. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. When I get to my laptop I'll add a picture. I think Sacalait has a Geneva double curtain trellis system. When he says 4 feet across, that's the bar on top. There are holes drilled in the ends of the cross bars and there will be 2 wires running 4 feet apart like clothes lines at the ends of those cross bars.


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