# Cherry Wine Base



## dcbrown73 (Nov 27, 2016)

All my six gallon carboys are in use, but I have five three gallon carboys that seem extremely bored doing nothing. Time for smaller batch wines!

I've ordered a Vinter's Harvest cherry wine base. It says it makes five gallons of wine which is more than I wanted to make, but figured I would just use a second three gallon carboy and use this headspace eliminator I purchased, but haven't yet had a reason to use on the second carboy.

After doing some reading, I heard that there is a second recipe on the product that makes a three gallon cherry wine with more body. Sounds like product I wanted to make!

So, I was looking for any recommendations on making this wine, great tweaks, gotcha's, etc.

How long does these types of wines require for aging?

@joeswine should write a book. I would buy it!


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## BernardSmith (Nov 27, 2016)

Are you certain that it says that it makes 5 gallons or that it CAN make 5 gallons and that at 3 gallons it makes a richer flavored wine?


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## Jericurl (Nov 27, 2016)

I've used several of those (though not cherry) and would recommend that you just make the 3 gallon version for a more full bodied wine.

For tweaks, how about a 1/2 tsp of mahlab (seriously, if you use it go easy. A little goes a long way but it is sooo good), and 3 T of oak powder in primary.

Then after racking, 1 scraped vanilla bean.

I would age at least 6 months, taste again, and see if you want to finish it off with some oak. 
Then I would put them to bed for another 4 or 5 months before bottling. 

You could probably drink it before this but they will be so much better with some age.

eta: I don't know how you feel about mead, but if you can get your hands on some honey, this one would be an excellent recipe to get your feet wet. Just skip the sugar and buy about 10 lbs of honey so that you will have plenty. I would probably start this one SG @ 1.10, everything else follow as normal winemaking. Also, for yeast (regardless of if you go with wine or mead) I would probably use RC 212 or 71B.


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## Jericurl (Nov 27, 2016)

BernardSmith said:


> Are you certain that it says that it makes 5 gallons or that it CAN make 5 gallons and that at 3 gallons it makes a richer flavored wine?



I think the wording is something along the lines of 5 gallons for a lighter wine, 3 gallons for a full bodied wine.


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## hounddawg (Nov 28, 2016)

yup they be right, them cans are only good for 3 gallons or 2 cans for 6 gallons regardless of what the can says, if you want a richer flavor try www.homewinery.com 

Dawg







dcbrown73 said:


> All my six gallon carboys are in use, but I have five three gallon carboys that seem extremely bored doing nothing. Time for smaller batch wines!
> 
> I've ordered a Vinter's Harvest cherry wine base. It says it makes five gallons of wine which is more than I wanted to make, but figured I would just use a second three gallon carboy and use this headspace eliminator I purchased, but haven't yet had a reason to use on the second carboy.
> 
> ...


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 2, 2016)

Okay, so the base came in today. I guess I was incorrect. This isn't Vinter's Harvest, it's Vinter's Best and from Label Peelers. It's not a 96oz can, it's a 128oz bottle (32 extra oz) and doesn't have a recipe for only a 3 gallon batch. It only lists a 5 gallon batch and I realize this is a bigger bottle and could possibly make a decent strength 5 gallon batch. 

ie not this







but this






I'm not sure what I should do at this point. Should I still just try to make a 3 gallon batch? Just add this and two gallons of water? I was thinking about dropping some raspberries in it too, but now I'm not so sure that this might make things worse.

Any ideas? Has anyone used these 1 gallon fruit bases that can give me an idea of what to expect?


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## Arne (Dec 3, 2016)

Think I would put it in the fermenting bucket, add 3 gal. water, If I wanted raspberry flavor, dump some of them in ( I would bag them so they are easy to remove later) and add whatever else I wanted in there. This will make 4 gal. or so and leave you with some leftover to use when you rack. I have done one wine with the can of fruit juice and was kind of disappointed with a rather weak flavor. Havn't tried the bottle and it was a different flavor of fruit I used so the cherry might be much more flavorful, but I would stick with not over 4 gal. total. Arne.


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## Troll (Dec 3, 2016)

I havent made this yet but I believe theese are sweetened and balanced just add yeast and water. 4 gallon batch might make the ABV too high. Container says diluted gravity 1.077.


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## ceeaton (Dec 3, 2016)

David, I used one of those for a blueberry and a raspberry batch, 6 gallons worth, but I added about 10 lbs of fruit in each case, and a 1L Red Grape Concentrate (also LD Carlson). 

For the Raspberry I ended up with SG 1.074, it is in the bottle, backsweetened to 1.002. Is gonna take a while to settle down and mellow (pH 2.95). For the Blueberry I also ended up dumping in and additional 2 lbs of sugar and some apple juice (50 oz) I had hanging around (I do that sometimes to clean up the fridge) to get a SG of 1.090. That one I backsweetened a whole lot more (for my wife) and just noticed I never wrote the FG down, so time to open one up and measure, but she loves it, nice blueberry flavor (she likes it better than the first batch I used the Homewinery concentrate in, though she still liked that wine (it's gone)).

Haven't used the Cherry, but I hope that helps.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 3, 2016)

Okay, I made my plan and here is what I have. 

(1) gallon of the Vinter's Best Cherry wine base (makes 5 gallons)
(4) gallons of water as required by the cherry base
(2) half gallon Welch's 100% juice Black Cherry Concord Grape juice (to make it a total of six gallons, mostly apple, grape and cherry juice)
(12) lbs of frozen cherries from Costco
(1) EC-1118 Yeast
(1) lbs 72% cacao belguim dark chocolate from Trader Joe's
As much sugar or corn syrup as needed (can you use corn syrup rather than sugar? I expect that would change the flavor from normal sugar

So, the plan is to ferment the base, gallon of grape juice, and frozen cherries and add sugar (if required) till I get it to 1.090 gravity.

Once fermentation is complete. Split the batch into (2) three gallon carboys. Make one straight cherry wine, and the other I want to add the 1 lbs of dark chocolate to make a cherry chocolate wine. The idea for 1lbs to three gallons came from a @Runningwolf post back in Nov, 15 2010.

One question I do have about the chocolate is, if I add it after the 28 days in secondary. Does it dissolve into the wine? Do I need to remove the chocolate after a certain amount of time like skins and wood cubes?

Also, do I need to add sorbate before adding the chocolate? I suppose I'm going to end up making the cherry chocolate wine into a desert wine. 

Any thing I'm missing? Does it sound okay? This will be my first attempt at making my own sort of recipe.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 3, 2016)

Okay, for now 86 the Welch's grape juice. 12lbs of cherries and five gallons of base / water fill my 7.9 gallon fermentor up.

Maybe when I pull the cherries, I can then add the grape juice. I suppose I just need to watch the gravity and then take a guessing game to keep it close to where I believe I want it.

....or I just leave it at 5 gallons and make the 2 gallons cherry chocolate wine. Not sure how much of that I would drink, I just wanted to make a run at it.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 3, 2016)

The gravity is at about exactly what the bottle said. 1.077 The 12lbs of cherries are likely to raise that a bit. The temp is about 63F most certainly from the half frozen cherries. I will check and probably pitch the yeast tomorrow once it rises to around 72F. The cherries are in a 10" x 23" bag and there was only maybe 6" from the top. It's a lot tighter packed that I would have hoped. I prefer them to be able to move around freely in the bag, but I don't have much of a choice as that is the only bag I had.

I have to say, I'm surprised at how dark it is. It looks like a Pinot Noir! The dragons blood wasn't even remotely this dark even after the colors bled from the fruit.






This is pretty much where the must is when I have a full six gallons in it, yet this is only five.


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## Arne (Dec 4, 2016)

Looks like you have a plan. One thing, you are fermenting over a decent floor. I would put the fermenting bucket on a tray, maybe in a large tote or get a big plastic bag and set it in. Just kinda pull the bag up around the sides a bit. Just something to catch any drips or spills especially with that dark color. Also if it gets to rock and rolling with the ferment and goes over the sides makes the cleanup much much easier. Good luck with it, Arne.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 4, 2016)

Arne said:


> Looks like you have a plan. One thing, you are fermenting over a decent floor. I would put the fermenting bucket on a tray, maybe in a large tote or get a big plastic bag and set it in. Just kinda pull the bag up around the sides a bit. Just something to catch any drips or spills especially with that dark color. Also if it gets to rock and rolling with the ferment and goes over the sides makes the cleanup much much easier. Good luck with it, Arne.



Actually, it is in a plastic bag as you can see the red ribbing where the draw string is. It's one of the clear recycle bags. Once I put it in the closet to ferment, I pull the bag up over the edges.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 4, 2016)

If I wanted to add a walnut flavoring to the wine. Would I just add walnuts? Break them up?

Also, I just want to add some flavor, nothing over powering. How much would I add per gallon? I think I want the cherry chocolate wine to be cherry, chocolate, walnut wine. Those three flavors have a flavor affinity with each other.


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## ceeaton (Dec 5, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> Also, do I need to add sorbate before adding the chocolate? I suppose I'm going to end up making the cherry chocolate wine into a desert wine.



If you plan on having a sweetened wine (desert wine), I think you'll have to add sorbate or it will start fermenting again (especially with EC-1118, I think that one can withstand a pretty high ABV).

Not sure how to use the chocolate, but will follow along and see how it works from your experiences.


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## Mismost (Dec 5, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> If you plan on having a sweetened wine (desert wine), I think you'll have to add sorbate or it will start fermenting again (especially with EC-1118, I think that one can withstand a pretty high ABV).
> 
> Not sure how to use the chocolate, but will follow along and see how it works from your experiences.



I was wondering about the chocolate myself, never used it. I do know with beers they use those chocolate nibs...I've seen them in the LHBS... boil them in the wort?...I suppose you could bag them and run them through the primary and maybe into the secondary too depending on how flavor it picked up.

I've also read about PB powder...its like dried peanut butter...which stretched my brain to think of plain old cocoa powder...that might work as well. Frankly, I would eat that chocolate before throwing it into a fermenting bucket!

Now when he said walnut flavor I thought he meant like oak...put walnut shells in like oak?? I was using pecan hulls to smoke some briskets this week end...that little tidbit of info adds nothing of value to the discussion, but added a nice flavor to the beef.

If adding a walnut flavor make sure it is NOT OIL BASED...trust me, it is a foul mess...just don't go there.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 5, 2016)

Mismost said:


> I was wondering about the chocolate myself, never used it. I do know with beers they use those chocolate nibs...I've seen them in the LHBS... boil them in the wort?...I suppose you could bag them and run them through the primary and maybe into the secondary too depending on how flavor it picked up.
> 
> I've also read about PB powder...its like dried peanut butter...which stretched my brain to think of plain old cocoa powder...that might work as well. Frankly, I would eat that chocolate before throwing it into a fermenting bucket!
> 
> ...



Based on this article, almonds and walnuts are okay. Its most other nuts that are a problem.

It's a big page, so here is the brief.



> July 14th, 2007
> 
> I've now had three days to get back into the swing of things at work, but playing catch-up isn't my favorite game. My good intentions about staying an hour late each day to answer some of my email was a pipe dream. A lot has happened in five weeks and I have to get current. My apologies to all who are waiting answers from me, but I have to get caught up.
> 
> ...


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## Mismost (Dec 6, 2016)

i did run across a chocolate recipe...it did use cocoa powder. It was one of Jacks recipes i do believe.


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## Arne (Dec 6, 2016)

If you p.m. @Julie or Dan @runningwolf bet they can help you with the chocolate. Think they have both made chocolate wines, been a long time ago since they talked about them, tho. To pm them, find one of their posts and click on their forum name. Should get you to a private message deal. Arne.


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## Julie (Dec 6, 2016)

I won't use cocoa powder, your wine will be harder to clear. I normally use Lindt's dark chocolate, can't remember how much per gallon but let me look at my notes.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 6, 2016)

When using fruit bases, do I need to add pectic enzyme, yeast energizer, or yeast nutrients? I know from fresh fruit I need too, but I don't know if the fruit base comes similar to wine kits where it isn't necessary.

My intention for clearing is SuperKleer or whatever it's now called. Dual Fine or something.


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## Jericurl (Dec 6, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> When using fruit bases, do I need to add pectic enzyme, yeast energizer, or yeast nutrients? I know from fresh fruit I need too, but I don't know if the fruit base comes similar to wine kits where it isn't necessary.
> 
> My intention for clearing is SuperKleer or whatever it's now called. Dual Fine or something.




Yes, you will need to use pectic enzyme especially, but you still need some yeast energizer and yeast nutrients.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 6, 2016)

Jericurl said:


> Yes, you will need to use pectic enzyme especially, but you still need some yeast energizer and yeast nutrients.



Thank you!


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## drainsurgeon (Dec 7, 2016)

Mismost said:


> i did run across a chocolate recipe...it did use cocoa powder. It was one of Jacks recipes i do believe.



I picked up a recipe from Jack's site, it's Black Raspberry Chocolate Port. He uses Dutched Cocoa in this recipe. I'll be making in in the spring and can't wait.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 30, 2016)

I actually posted this a few days in another thread, but it passed silently. I'm hoping I can get some feedback.


_I think I may have screwed up the batch, but I would like your opinion.

After I moved it out of the primary fermentor and into a six gallon carboy. It still had gas in it, but I didn't top it up. After reading around, I was under the impression that the cherry base had SO2 in it. Between the gas left and the SO2, I figured it would be okay until I figured out what to do with it. (add everclear or more juice)

Well, due to the holidays and getting sick. It ended up sitting like that for two weeks. I finally got around to racking it last night. I tasted it and it was ROUGH tasting. Much worse than I remember. Rough enough that it was overpowering the flavors. (I have not back sweetened at all, so it's dry and the darkest cherry wine I've seen thus far by a long shot)

I tested the SO2 levels and it was basically non-existent. (yikes!) So, it's basically been exposed for 3 weeks if you include fermentation (I started it on 12/3/2016) 

I added 2lbs of 72% cacao chocolate after racking and 2 1/2 cups of walnuts and 2 grams of SO2 to bring it's SO2 levels up to 50ppm for now. I also topped it up with Welch's Black Cherry 100% juice. (it took about 75% of a 32oz bottle) I expect to let it sit for 2-4 weeks on the chocolate/walnuts before I rack it again.

I would love someone's opinion on if I have ruined it or if this is just how it's expected to taste at this point. (being completely dry and very dark cherry)

I hope it's still good. I had high hopes for this batch invested quite a bit on it for all the cherries, walnuts, chocolate, and cherry base. I would hate to lose it.​_


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## Mismost (Dec 30, 2016)

dcbrown...my gut feeling is you are OK...just back away from the carboy and relax....we will all know for sure in about a month.

Heck, even if it is bad then, you can keep on tweaking....I got a nasty one over here on the corner of my desk....we have been wrassling with each other for 7 months...now it may win, but I ain't tired of trying....yet. never dumped one before (but this might be a good one start with).


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## ceeaton (Dec 30, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> I actually posted this a few days in another thread, but it passed silently. I'm hoping I can get some feedback.
> 
> 
> _I think I may have screwed up the batch, but I would like your opinion.
> ...



I've let batches go with zero SO2 for four months (waiting for MLF to complete). No way your CO2 went to zero, and that is probably adding to its roughness. Most fruit wines take a year to round out, so you've got a way to go. 

I didn't see that you added any sorbate, so I suspect that the added chocolate and juice may start fermenting again, even with high SO2 levels.

Your fine, it's really young. If you left it for 5 or 6 months without adding Kmeta then I might start to get concerned.


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## dcbrown73 (Dec 30, 2016)

Sorry, I did add sorbate as I expected to do at least a little backsweetening, though I had ideas of a port style cherry also.

Also, when I tested the SO2 with my Vinemertica. I only used .2lm of reactant. .2 x 20 = 4ppm so2.


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## drainsurgeon (Dec 31, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> I actually posted this a few days in another thread, but it passed silently. I'm hoping I can get some feedback.
> 
> 
> _I think I may have screwed up the batch, but I would like your opinion.
> ...



Don't give up the ship yet. Time and tweaking are wine makers best friends. I had a mango/pineapple/peach wine that I made this summer. It was quite a challange to make this drinkable. For months I tweaked. Added grapefruit and lemon zest, mango concentrate, raisins. It still had a bite. The alcohol was a tad high.(about 13.5%) so I thinned it with a peach/mango juice (down to about 12%) and that did the trick. Now 5 months later it has come to be one of my favorites and is getting better by the month. Only problem now is by the time its a year old there won't be much left. I now understand the idea of bulk aging to keep from drinking it. Choc/cherry sounds tasty. I'm betting that just a little patience and perseverance will win this battle for ya!


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## dcbrown73 (Jan 6, 2017)

I took a taste last night. Even after just under two weeks, it tasted substantially better this time around. I'm starting to taste the chocolate, but it's the walnuts that I could really taste. That might be due to me thieving out of the neck of the bottle which is where all the walnuts are floating.

I'm excited about it after last nights tasting!


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## Scooter68 (Jan 7, 2017)

*Note to ALL *- This may not bother some or most of you but My problem with this brand is that the contents are not 100% of the fruit on the label. In other words you are buying a flavored product e.g this is the list of contents on a jug of the Cherry Wine Base: _High Fructose Corn Syrup; Apple, Pear, Cherry & Grape Juice Concentrates; Water; Citric Acid; Natural Flavors._

Now given that 9 times out of 10 items are listed in the same order of the percentage of that item, Cherry is of a relatively low content in this wine base. So you are buying an Apple wine base flavored with Pear and Cherry and Grape. So you are not getting 100% Cherry Wine Base with Sugar and pH additives you are buying A BLENDED WINE BASE.

Here is the label for the Apricot Wine base: High Fructose Corn Syrup; Apple, Pear & Apricot Juice Concentrates; Water; Citric Acid; Malic Acid; Natural Flavors.


I've checked out this brand before and nothing has changed - they are marketing it as Wine base, which it is but the fruit variety on the label is not the only fruit in the base and in fact is probably in a relatively low quantity in that base. Yet the price is the same or higher than VH's pure products. 


Sorry for the rant but.... I know how many folks on here like to talk about how they use NO WATER and XX pounds of fruit for their wine. Being picky here but the fine print matters for some of us.


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## hounddawg (Jan 9, 2017)

hey scooter68.
i make country wines and pick or havefriendspick 95% of my fruitsfresh, from non sprayed trees, but here lately with a below the knee right leg amputee, and 1/3of left foot amputee. so my picking isstarting to wane, i have used some concentrates from HOMEWINERY.COM ,,, i really like their product. and i have talked to the owner. better then 50 years in bussiness, any thoughts on this product, i can say any country wines i've made from theiyr concintrates has been very good indeed....
Dawg





QUOTE=Scooter68;634143]*Note to ALL *- This may not bother some or most of you but My problem with this brand is that the contents are not 100% of the fruit on the label. In other words you are buying a flavored product e.g this is the list of contents on a jug of the Cherry Wine Base: _High Fructose Corn Syrup; Apple, Pear, Cherry & Grape Juice Concentrates; Water; Citric Acid; Natural Flavors._

Now given that 9 times out of 10 items are listed in the same order of the percentage of that item, Cherry is of a relatively low content in this wine base. So you are buying an Apple wine base flavored with Pear and Cherry and Grape. So you are not getting 100% Cherry Wine Base with Sugar and pH additives you are buying A BLENDED WINE BASE.

Here is the label for the Apricot Wine base: High Fructose Corn Syrup; Apple, Pear & Apricot Juice Concentrates; Water; Citric Acid; Malic Acid; Natural Flavors.


I've checked out this brand before and nothing has changed - they are marketing it as Wine base, which it is but the fruit variety on the label is not the only fruit in the base and in fact is probably in a relatively low quantity in that base. Yet the price is the same or higher than VH's pure products. 


Sorry for the rant but.... I know how many folks on here like to talk about how they use NO WATER and XX pounds of fruit for their wine. Being picky here but the fine print matters for some of us.[/QUOTE]


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## Scooter68 (Jan 13, 2017)

I understand your point hounddawg - It's just that some of us want a pure taste of a fruit like Cherry or Blueberry. Apples, Pears, and Grapes have their own flavors and that's why I mention this, obviously, the flavor of a wine made from that blended base may be dominated buy the fruit on the label but it won't be purely that fruit flavor. The Apples, Pears, and Grapes will influence that flavor. For a 'purist' that makes a difference. That's one the main reasons I got into home wine making - All the Berry wines I found at the time were in fact blended wines with the 'berry' on the label being 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th in the label of contents. I'd rather be the one choosing to blend or not blend my fruit flavors. It's sorta like the old days of buying an Oldmobile with a Rocket 88 engine listed on the Sticker, only to open the hood and find Chevy Labels on the Valve covers.


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