# Fish Farm Vineyard



## Joanie

Here are the beginnings of my vineyard. I have 12 vines, 11 of which are fine and growing and one that isn't looking alive ...yet. I'm being patient however.







Notice the pretty rocks!



These are the three Golden Muscats.






One of three Diamond vines. Hmm...sounds like a good name for a label!






Golden Muscat






Frontenac






My poor pathetic Leon Millot that might not make it.


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## rgecaprock

Joan,
You must be so excited to start your vineyard. Looks great and show us the progress pictures.


Ramona


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## NorthernWinos

That's looking good...wish you great success in your venture....Keep those photos coming...


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## Wade E

I love the 3 Diamonds name thats a keeper! Very nice joan.


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## smurfe

I agree. 3 Diamonds is a very good name. Hope your runt vine pulls through for you. Did you just plant these?


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## Joanie

Yes, they were delivered May 21st and went right in the ground! They're babies! 

As for the label... I was thinking Diamond Wines. It looked like Diamond _Mines_ when I read it. But I like 3 Diamonds too! Thanks for the idea Wade! I have a few years to design it! 

Thanks everyone for your kind comments. It means a lot.


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## NorthernWinos

You'll be using that grape press before you know it.


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## Joanie




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## Waldo

Looking good Joan...Might do a "Triple Diamond" label...A slot machine spewing out bottles of wine !!


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## grapeman

Just got in and saw this Joan. Those sure didn't take long to leaf out. Don't give up on poor Leon. Keep it watered and it will probably push a bud from below ground. If not, I have a few cuttings started of the Leon Millot and can send you one next spring if that one doesn't take off. If this is one you got from Millers they will go good for it. Normally they only charge shipping for the replacement, but since you are only a little ways away you can drive over. It might not hurt to give them a call next week anyway and see what they say- they may have one left over that hasn't been replanted.


It looks like you got a nice size tiller to work up your rows. They look great. You even got posts and stakes in already. You are right on the ball!






Today was another "training day" here at the vineyard. It was the Frontenacs turn today. They send out about 20 shoots when young and make a forest instead of a nice straight trunk. I took out all but the best cane and it looked like a lawn-mower massacre on the ground when I got done!



I keep telling myself it is for their best interest!


Again nice job Joan.


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## OilnH2O

Looks great, Joan! And as for rocks -- all their cousins live in my little wine patch!


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## Joanie

Oilnwater...I think the rocks grow as fast as the weeds!


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## grapeman

Weeds, weeds, what are weeds? Ha Ha Ha. They grow really good everywhere! Now if someone can figure out how to make wine out of weeds...... oh wait a minute Joan and others made some this year from those little yellow flowers of spring, and then there is chickweed wine and who knows what else.


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## Wade E

Im gonna start a gallon batch of that yellow weed wine probably this
weekend. I picked about a month ago and have had them frozen since.


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## jobe05

appleman said:


> Joan and others made some this year from those little yellow flowers of spring, and then there is chickweed wine and who knows what else.




I have a bottle of Jack Keller's second place winner, Sand Burr Wine..........


Now if you can make wine out of sand Burrs, You can make wine from anything................


Also have an empty bottle of his Mustang Grape wine.................


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## Joanie

Ooooh... "Yellow Weed Wine!" Great name for it!


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## Wade E

I like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Trigham

appleman said:


> I took out all but the best cane and it looked like a lawn-mower massacre on the ground when I got done!
> 
> 
> 
> I keep telling myself it is for their best interest!




Apple could u take some pics for us to show how u mowed up



that shoot please?


Nice job Joan



I envy you for your new project, i cant wait to see updates through your pictures!!


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## AAASTINKIE

NICE!! you did a great job of preparing the ground first, I kinda just did a small hole and throw the plants in, but I'm trying to get better, I haven't planted any grapes, I want to be the Blueberry wine king...


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## Joanie

The vines are growing so fast, I already need to add more twist-ties! I watered last evening so they will grow at least 6 inches today! =)


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## grapeman

Joan, don't they grow fast!? I have some almost coming out of the 30 inch grow tubes already that were planted about 3 weeks ago.Be careful with twist-ties. The wire inside them doesn't allow for growth and can girdle the stems. Tie them very loosely. The vines expand a lot during the year and when you start low and the plant grows you forget about the low ties and they can girdle the vines causing it's death the next year.


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## Joanie

Thanks, Appleman. I check the twist ties all the time! I bought some of those 8" ones and have them very loose.

Still nothing green on the last Leon.


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## Joanie

I'm double excited!!!! I have green buds on the 12th vine finally!!! And I found these when I was out watering this evening!!! Aren't they cunnin'?


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## Wade E

Looks good Joan.


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## grapeman

Great news Joan. It should catch up fine. There is a runt in every litter. You may get a few clusters of blooms, but remember you are "supposed" to snip them off this year.



It's easier when they just don't get any the first year. Of course I won't tell the blooming patrol if you dont.


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## Joanie

I know I need to snip them and I will! Honest! I know it's best for the vine! It sure was fun to see tho!


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## Joanie

My grapes are snipped!

Worse than that?? I was out spraying my vines and just as I was finishing one a toad moved and I realized I'd gotten spray on him!!



I feel so bad!!!! He buried himself in the dirt. Poor toady.


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## Joanie

I have (make that past tense) blossoms!


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## grapeman

This must be one you missed a few days ago when you snipped them. Pretty plain after all NW's flower pictures, aren't they? You should have lots in a couple more years. I visited a small vineyard that has about a thousand vines where most of them are three or four years old. A lot of them have some many clusters they need thinning. Looks to me like about 50 clusters per vine.


Have you seen Toady again yet? He should be fine after burrowing in the soil. The clay in the soil should act like chelates and remove the spray from him OK. Nature's critters are sometimes smarter than we give them credit for.
( *che·lat·ed*, *che·lat·ing*, *che·lates* 



<LI>_Chemistry_ To combine (a metal ion) with a chemical compound to form a ring. 
<LI>_Medicine_ To remove (a heavy metal, such as lead or mercury) from the bloodstream by means of a chelate, such as EDTA. </LI>
)


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## Joanie

No sign of Mr. Toad. Maybe that's a good thing!

I missed that one and a couple of others! They are gone now tho.

Next year can I leave one cluster on each of the strongest vine of each variety just to see them from start to finish?


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## grapeman

That depends on the vigor of the vine this year and early next year and how hard of a winter we have this year. A few bunches is probably ok and if the vine is really vigorous you can leave some more. I have some I am leaving 10 bunches on this year that are very vigorous and I want to slow down a little. I'll post some pictures of some fairly soon with some on. I'm weeding again today, installing trellis wire and training some. It's amazing the variation that the vines exibit from variety to variety.


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## Joanie

I was thinking the same thing, Appleman! The two white varieties look much hardier than the 2 reds. Is that common?


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## Joanie

And why would you want to slow them down by letting the vines set fruit?
*Edited by: Joan *


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## grapeman

Joan some whites are really vigorous and some reds are too. It depends on the variety and how well they grew last year at the nursery. Also- Why would you want to slow them down?


This year you want them to grow all they can to create food reserves in the stems and the roots. That helps them prepare for winter and eventually regrow next year. Next year however, they can really get going. If you want them to have buds every 3-four inches to keep the plant productive and under control, you don't want it creating so much growth that the nodes are 8 inches apart. Canes growing like that are called Bull Canes and aren't very productive. If the vine is twice as big as the rest next year and starts growing really fast, it needs the brakes applied to it to slow it down. By letting it form SOME fruit, you hold the vine growth in check some. Look for some pictures tomorrow when I get a chance to upload them to my post. I have some I am letting have 10 to 15 bunches because they are so vigorous. If the tendril growth slow too much on the tips, you can drop some bunches to motivate the plant to resume growth. Lots to it



But don't worry. They are hard to screw up if you keep the weeds out and the water to them this year.


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## Joanie

I am watering and weeding!!! I need some serious hands on pruning lessons tho! My vines don't all look like the drawings in the books and I have no idea what I'm supposed to be pruning! I may have to make a road trip this fall and have you show me what stays and what goes!


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## grapeman

This year the main thing is train the srtongest shoot to the pole. to keep it straight. Some don't want to prune at all in the first growing season to get all the root and cane stores they can and then prune in the spring(late winter). Maybe this fall would be a good time to visit and I can give you some of my limited prunung tips.


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## Joanie

LOL Your limited pruning tips are are vastly greater than mine!


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## Joanie

The Japanese beetles are eating my vines! I have some lacy looking leaves! I went out to check them a while ago and a bunch of them are swimming in a nice bath with a little Dawn in it!





While beetle hunting, I ran across this one. What is he and is he a good guy or should he be swimming with the beetles?

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## grapeman

Wow, that baby casts some ugly shadow! It might be some kind of chafer- not necessarily good. It definitely is a beetle of some king. I would just get rid of it. Here is a guide you can look further in. I couldn't find it in ther, but a few look somewhat similar.


http://bugguide.net/node/view/60


I hope you can keep up with the Japanese beetles by hand. If not, simple sevin works wonder on them



.
5% Sevin dust is easy to apply and relatively inexpensive.


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## Joanie

Thanks Appleman!!!


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## Joanie

Will Sevin spray work too?


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## grapeman

Yes Joan it works great. I just thought for the few vines it would save mixing it up to use the dust. If you have some mixed for other things already or if it is all you can get, it works just as well. Now go zap those bugs


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## Joanie

Should I trim off the leaves they've eaten?

You were right about the slow starter catching up. You'd never know the difference now!

Thanks again!!


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## grapeman

Unless the leaves bother you, they can be left on. They can get pretty chewed up looking, but in a few weeks they won't even show. 


The pictures I posted of the VSP vines are Leon Millot. I had a bunch of other pictures that showed them better, but they didn't download from the camera. I will try to post more later today.


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## Joanie

Okay! All sprayed!! How often should I spray?


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## grapeman

Don't spray more often than necessary. If the Japanes Beetles come back, wait 7-10 days and spray again. They shouldn't last more than a few weeks. Next year you will need to spray for diseases like powdry mildew, black rot and downey mildew along with the insecticidal sprays. There are organic alternatives also. Have fun.


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## rgecaprock

I don't have any vines but I was just thinking how lucky we are to have such knowledgable people like appleman to share his experience and advice. Great friends on this forum.


Ramona


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## Joanie

No kidding, Ramona!!! This place and its members are the best!!!


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## Wade E

Joan, I dont see any fresh pics of your vineyard. Stop slacking off over there!


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## Joanie

You asked for it, Wade! 






All the vines are taller than the stakes so
figured it was time for the wires. One of the Leon Milots is about 6
inches from the top wire! They grow like weeds!


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## NorthernWinos

looking good, Joan...Looks like you got your crop off the field...was it hay or grain????


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## grapeman

Joan said:


> My poor pathetic Leon Millot that might not make it.






Do you remember saying that Joan?






I told you it would catch up. The ones I had the pictures of a couple weeks ago after I had pruned them to the Verticle Shoot Positioning are blasting upward. Some of the laterals are up to almost to the top wire at 6 feet from the fruiting wire set at 32 inches! I'm really going to take some wood out of them this coming winter!


How are the Japanese Beetles there? I sprayed for them 6 days ago and had to spray for them again tonight. They wer THICK again!






By the way you are doing great! And I like your post extensions- ingenious!*Edited by: appleman *


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## Joanie

You were exactly right, Appleman! That poor pathetic Leon looks just like the rest! Haven't seen any of the beetles! Lucky fer them!





I knew the posts weren't going to be tall enough as soon as they were in the ground. When you use what's on hand to save money, you take what you can get!

NW, that field was red winter wheat harvested late last week. The straw is all baled too! I have my sheave partly done. That's the field where I hand cut my wheat. I will post a photo as soon as I can talk myself into finishing it!


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## Wade E

Great job joan and thanks for updating! They are really taking off nicely!


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## grapeman

Joan, make some room for a few St. Pepin vines- a white. I am getting more and more excited by this variety as they get closer to being ripe. They are running 16-18 brix right now and are taking on the best tasting fruit tones you have ever had(or at least me). I am hoping to harvest about 20 brix with a nice workable acid. I have about a dozen of them in my little nursery and there are a few with your name on them if you want next spring. I am looking forward to making a 3-6 gallon batch this year to see how it turns out. There is going to be some heavy pruning this fall/winter and I think I will try for about a thousand cuttings of the St. Pepin. That should give me enough to put in about an acre of them.


If you are interested, let me know and I will save you a few for next spring.


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## Joanie

Yes, I am certainly interested!! Whooohooo!! Sounds great!

I hope they are Japanese beetle resistant!! My Frontenacs especially have taken a huge beating!! They are still eating! What a year it's been for them! Ugg!


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## grapeman

Consider it done Joan. They aren't real big vines right now, but will grow up just like the Leon Millot- well maybe not quite so vigorous, but close. As far as Japanese Beelte resistant- yeah right. Nothing is resistant to those suckers- or chewers. You may need to remind me towards spring, but they are there for you. I also have some Chardonel with no room for them- about a dozen. They are well started now, second year in nursery 
with good growth and one even has a nice bunch of grapes on.






On the other thread, what type of dealer are you looking for, you never said? Having problems with something or just looking for something in particular?


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## Joanie

LOL Since the board was for Mosti Mondiale, I didn't think I needed to specify what kind of a dealer I needed! Apparently it was only obvious to me! I "assumed" and you know what that means!!!



I was thinking of trying one of the frozen kits George can't ship but I don't know where to get one. 

The Chardonel sound great too, Appleman!!!! Thank you for thinking of me!!


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## dfwwino

I planted Chardonel in my vineyard and it does quite well. I had no problem with disease or black rot. I only lost the Chardonel due to divorce. But I would plant it again in a heartbeat.


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## Joanie

After reading Bilbo's post I'm wondering... should I be spraying for something??? Apparently I've forgotten most everything I know about grapes!


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## grapeman

Joan he is talking about spraying a dormant lime/sufur mixture to help rid the vines of any residual overwintering disease. Your vines are small enough it shouldn't be necessary. Just monitor their growth as they take off again and watch for insects and diseases such as powdery or downey mildew. Next year you might want to consider the dormant spray if you note much mildew this year.


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## grapeman

Hey Joan, What are you doing over there at the Fish Farm Winery? I heard there was a mining operation going on there and somehow you were involved. Something about somebody digging deep pits all over their vineyard. The guy telling about it said he heard there was gold there you were digging for. Found 3 nuggets from what I'm hearing. (Or at least that is the story you should have told to get some help with all those pits!)


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## Joanie

LOL All I've been finding are a bunch of beeeg rocks and one piece of glass!




I'm glad I was using a shoved when I found that!


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## Joanie

I'm not sure if this belongs here or under "Tips" but I decided to make myself a grape map so I'll know what I'm picking! I'm trying to root some cuttings I took from the vines I planted last year and will add them to the appropriate rows with any extras on the last row on the left. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they root. I have way more than doubled my vineyard thanks to Appleman! Thanks Appleman!


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## grapeman

That's a colorful map you have going Joan. Good luck with all your vines, both new and old. I hope you get some of the cuttings to root. It's always fun to get a new little vine growing from pieces of sticks! With the help of the couple weeks of warm weather, I was able to get pretty good callous formation on this years cuttings and I have potted them into the little zipsets over the last couple evenings.


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## NorthernWinos

Joan, that is a nice colorful map....hope you get new plants going and fill your spaces.

I had made a map of my apple and fruit trees, then misplaced it....So, last year I made up a couple of them, plus the years they were planted...Hopefully won't loose these lists...Put one in with the garden seeds and one with the seed catalogs.

I had made metal tags the first years and had them on the vines and first apple trees...they eventually wore off and blew away....

I really is nice to keep track of your fruit trees and vines....then if you ever need replacements you know what to get.


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## rgecaprock

Joan,
Cool Map, Looks like you are growing into a nice size vineyard!!


Ramona


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## Joanie

Thanks, friends! I figured while I was making it, it might as well be purdy! I also thought a variation of it might make a good label.





I have callousing questions. The cuttings I have now have a very swollen root end. Am I on the right track? Can I put them in the ground yet? I'm worried that the cuttings have buds that are starting to open up. Am I still okay?


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## grapeman

Joan, if the cut end has a whitish swollen end, that is the callous and that will soon start forming roots, so you can place them in some soil. You could set them out, but if it freezes it would nip the buds that are starting to open. To be safe, get some 3 inch Jiffy pots, fill with a potting mix(without fertilizer, etc) and plant the vines in them. That way you can keep them protected and yet still feed the developing top. Once your danger of frost is past, then just plant pot and all up to about half the length of the cutting.


Show us a picture of the swollen end and I can say for sure if it is calloused or not. Great going girl!


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## Joanie

Thanks! I will do that!


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## Joanie

How's this?


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## grapeman

It looks like callouses are beginning but I would let them form a bit more. Watch carefullu because in a few days they will likely start sprouting roots. How many of each kind of cuttings did you get Joan? And what sort of wrap is that you have them in? It looks effective!


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## Joanie

I wrapped the cuttings of each variety in damp paper towel, tagged them, then put the root end in a plastic bag to hold the moisture. As for how many? I didn't count but the least has 5 I think and the most probably 12 and the other 2 varieties fall between. I figured they may not all root but had nothing to lose by trying them all.


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## Joanie

I peat potted 20 of them!


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## grapeman

Dang Joan, I'm going to have to start using rooting hormone. I haven't been using it with OK results, but it looks like it actually splits the bark and forms great callous giving them more surface area for the roots to form. Great Job









I think you will be filling in the short rows in another month!*Edited by: appleman *


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## Joanie

There were some roots that had popped right thru the bark along the stem...those were the Frontenacs.

Unfortunately I only have room for those 20. I have 11 more that aren't ready to pot yet.


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## grapeman

Joan plantall the extras when they root- in the pots. Let them root in the pots and when they grow roots through the pots, set them out in the vineyard somewhere to grow for the rest of the year. They only need to be about 8-10 inches apart for this year. They will develop nice roots. 10 of them will grow in about 8 feet of row. I'm sure you can find that much space. Then in case some of the ones need replacing next year or some of the other small ones died for whatever reason, you have replacements. 


Next thing you know, your vineyard will be bigger than mine! I'm proud of your progress there grasshopper. 


P.S. When are you going to show us some pictures of my babies there? I don't care if they have leaves yet- they will in time.


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## Joanie

They're kinda hard to see!


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## grapeman

You must have a nice big tiller. Those are nice wide rows. Are your rows going to stretch out into that field some day?


Thanks for the pictures!


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## Joanie

I'm not planning on it! I do have room for more rows to the left of these two.

The tiller is on a tractor.


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## Joanie

Ugg! Whose idea was it to root and plant more vines???? 

Oh yeah...it was mine!


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## grapeman

OK, what's the story behind that comment? Have they rooted enough to set out already? At least if they did, they are tiny so they don't need big holes!


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## Joanie

That planting stuff is hard work!

I have had the cuttings that have popped roots in peat pots. I decided to plant them. I have 4 other cuttings that haven't budged so decided to use the rooting hormone on those again to see if that will get them going. I will wait on planting the remaining rooted ones until those four either root or not so I can plant like varieties together. Except for my original 4 rows (each had 7 vines now), the rest is a semi-hodgepodge so don't want to make it even more messed up!


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## grapeman

Looks like you are getting a pretty good sized vineyard going. You must be getting leaves on your vines by now. Probably about a week ahead of us. My brother from down there called today and said the wind was blowing the last of the apple blossoms off today. They just started blooming a couple days ago here. Some varieties were in full bloom today and a few others just starting.


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## Joanie

Things are coming along...just slowly!


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## Joanie

Eleven more vines planted!!! Whooo hoo! I still have 4 to plant (hopefully) but last I looked no signs of roots or callusing. When should I say when? 

I suppose 25 out of 29 viable vines isn't a bad percentage, is it?


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## grapeman

That's super Joan. If I was lucky enough to get that high a percentage I would be in trouble this year. I have about 1500 cuttings total. I put out about 500 this afternoon of St. Pepin that I cut last fall and buried over the winter upside down in the sand. I dug them up 10 days ago and put in a tub in the greenhouse in vermiculite. They were budding and fairly well calloused, so I put them in the nursery. I am posting the pictures in my posts.


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## Joanie

What do you mean you buried them upside down? Why?


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## grapeman

Joan the idea is to make the cuttings before winter damage to the primary buds. You put them in a protected area in well drained soil to overwinter. You put them upside down so that as the ground thaws in the spring and the sun warms the surface, it warms the bottom of the cuttings so they callous. The tops, down deeper remain cool and the buds don't push too soon. This is the way cuttings were done for hundreds of years in cold climates. Neat huh?


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## NorthernWinos

Appleman.....I'll have to try it like that....... tho I don't plan on planting anymore grapes....I only have about 45 vines and think that is enough with all the other fruits.....and...being way up here on the high plains we are so limited to the varieties we can over winter....So, it goes....envy...envy....!!!!


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## Joanie

Who in the world ever thought that one up???





I didn't get enough rain to hold the dust down so I watered all the Spring babies! They said, "Thanks, I needed that!"


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## grapeman

Well I sure didn't think that one up, but I did try it about 30 years ago for the first time. I had a Catawba vine that I needed to remove from the middle of a field that had been planted many years before. I wanted to make sure I could continue the vine growing, so I read up on this procedure and gave it a shot. I buried a bundle of cuttings in the middle of an acre plot. I don't remember how I ever found it again in the spring, but I did. In the spring I stuck the cuttings and by summer many of them had rooted. Unfortunately I decided not to plant them after all and ended up plowing them under. What a dummy! I hope I am a bit wiser now.........


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## Joanie

I'm thinking that falls under the "if only" category!


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## rrawhide

Joan

Ok youse guys - you are making my mouth water!!!!

OK, I have room for about 12 vines along one of the fence lines coming up the driveway. I was thinking about 1 thompson seedless and 1 seedless flame for momma and 10 merlot for me. I know that merlot grows in this hot central valley as well a syrah so question - would you get 10 merlot or 5/5 merlot and syrah? Also, what can you expect for yield? Can these few vines do anything? like make a 6 gallon batch? or or or? 

We have alot of acreage (20)(cattle ground) but everything we seem to have tried in the past has made our ground squirrel population very happy. Lots of 22's and upside down plastic t's have helped but still they survive!!!!! hummmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!

oh yeah - started a 1 gallon batch of joe's ancient mead today. Friend (beekeeper) gave me a gallon of orange blossom honey yesterday so had to do something with it. Have you ever tried the mead?

Have a great day - - - -

you have a vice vineyard going it seems - lookin' good.

love this forum.

rrawhide


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## rgecaprock

Joan, appleman,


You all are the "Vineyard Envy" of us all. I just want the pleasure of visiting you someday and enjoying what you have accomplished. You guys are the inspiration!!


Ramona


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## Joanie

Good morning, R and R!

Appleman is the one who knows all the answers to your planting and yield questions, rrawhide. I'm just here for the fun!





Ramona, when I was out hoeing and weeding around my older vines, I wondered what I'd gotten myself into! All the vines I've planted this year are weed free for the moment but I know they won't be and it will take a lot of work to keep them clean! I don't have that nice sandy, easy to work soil that Appleman has! Mine's all gravel.The new vines look good for now tho. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Thanks for the reminder, rrawhide! I have some Joe's Ancient Orange in my closet and I keep forgetting it! I guess hiding wine in the dark is a great way to practice patience, eh! Who knew?


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## grapeman

rawhide, you could go either way- all Merlot or 50/50. The 50/50 would give you a nice blend and hedge your bets a bit. The only problem would be they probably would not ripen at the same time. You could then make 2 separate batches and have small batches of each or one bigger blended batch. Those vinifera vines would probably give you a couple quarts or so each when mature so yes, they would do a 5-6 gallon batch. I say go for it!


Joan you are right about the sand being easier than the gravely soil. The one end is heavier than the rest and even though it is only about 1/8 of the total, that area takes as long to hoe as the rest put together. It takes me about 20 hours total to hoe through the vineyard altogether. I try to do it every few weeks or about 4 times per season. I have to get outside and get to it in a few minutes!


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## Joanie

Does it pay to put down garden "fabric"?


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## grapeman

Joan said:


> Does it pay to put down garden "fabric"?




It wouldn't hurt to lay it down and makes a lot less work for keeping the young vines weed free. We have plastic mulch at Willsboro and other than a few weeds growing through holes in the plastic, there are very few. I sprayed Roundup a few weeks ago there and there is no hoeing to do. When I hopefully plant my first large vineyard expansion next year(you heard it first right here), I will use slightly raised beds with drip irrigation under plastic mulch. I will use the kind that will last several years to get the vines well established before it rips and tears too badly. I don't want to be hoeing 1500 vines or more. There are few sprays to use safely on young vines since it damages the root hairs.


I don't look at it as work Joan, I look at it as an excuse to get some good exercise- after all that is the initial reason for me planting my vines!


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## Joanie

appleman said:


> I don't look at it as work Joan, I look at it as an excuse to get some good exercise- after all that is the initial reason for me planting my vines!



You don't expect anyone to believe that, do you??


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## Joanie

On my may through the yard to the "vineyard" I get to walk by this:







Look what I've been finding! Grapes in the making!






And the Chardonel look great!


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## grapeman

Nice Lilacs Joan. Mine are blooming also, but the bushes aren't as big yet. What vine has the clusters- probably most of them(except the last ones you planted). I expect things will really get going serious very soon with June almost here. Now if it would warm back up to April's 80 degree weather(although the high yesterday was 86 here). We could really use a good rain here- only have about 3/4 inch of rain so far in May.


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## rrawhide

hi joan

good morning

where did you get your grape vines? From a local source or mail order? I have been looking a Ty-Ty nurseries in Ga but that is a long way from Ca.. Some local stores ie Lowes and HD and some nurseries have a few but only Thompson and Flame. Ok for momma but not wine grapes. The other places have minimums and they are too many for me. I did find another place that I can prepare for a few vines. I think that I can have 12 on the driveway fence and about 16 close by. Now, just to figure what kind or kinds that will grow here and what I want. Oh - so many questions - - - so little time before it gets real hot. Had a surprise rain yesterday and last night so best get diggin'

hope you had a nice holiday.

by the way what is your vine spacing?

rrawhider


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## Joanie

It's afternoon here but still morning where you are so I guess I'll say, Good day! 

I bought my original vines from a local place... Miller Nurseries. Appleman gets his grapes from Double A. I am sure you can google something closer to you. 

I like the idea of more vines! If you can find room, plant them! Mine are 8 feet apart in rows 6 feet apart. I would guess that the ones along the fence could be a bit closer together since there will be only one row of them. I have given you way more information that I have so please check that with Appleman since I have no idea what I'm talking about! My vines are growing in spite of me!


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## grapeman

One problem you have rrawhide is that California is a semi-closed state. You can't get much for vines out of state and like you say many have large minimum orders. 
You could check with Novavine. They might still have some available. I think they have smaller orders available.
http://www.novavine.com/
Or
http://www.duartenursery.com/availability.html


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## Joanie

Excellent, Rrawhide!! Not bad for a Monday! It definitely pays to have friends!





I think you need to start your very own vineyard thread! You deserve it now that you've been bit by the grapevine bug!


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## grapeman

********rrawhide**********


I started you a thread in the Home Vineyard section of your own. I responded to your cuttings there!


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## Joanie

Appleman, did you get the frost this morning???? I did. It's not everywhere but there is on the grass between the vines I planted last year. Am I in trouble?


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## grapeman

We got some spotted frost Joan- pretty cool. I don't think that the little frost there was will harm anything- at least I hope not. Obviously it isn't good for them, but most plants will take the little bit of frost without great harm.


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## Joanie

Ok, thanks. I will check things when I get home from work.


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## grapeman

I checked the weather station hi-low for here this morning. The low was 39.4 on one sensor and 39.6 on the other. There were just a few spots of frost that formed, but the overall temps were OK. Hope you had a similar situation there. Frost will sometimes form above freezing under the right atmospheric conditions.


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## NorthernWinos

We had 34.6*F yesterday morning....Jim's field corn is up and it wasn't harmed...it only has one leaf and corn can come back up to the 5th leaf stage if damaged....but there was no sign of damage...Thank Goodness.. In the fall corn can freeze at 36*F if it is calm and the dew point is near the temperature.

There was frost only on the eves of the garage that we could see....So, we squeaked by. Everything else seems okay...

One of these days will set out the tomato, pepper and melon plants....Got to be able to trust the weather soon...or summer will be over.


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## Joanie

Some of my grapevines did better than others. The Chardonel came thru the frost fine. The diamond cuttings had a tough time as did the Corot Noir. They are pretty tender apparently.



Hopefully they will bounce back. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Our "last danger of frost" has always been May 15th. Not this year!


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## grapeman

The Corot Noir are as hardy or more so than the Chardonel- they probably were just more tender being a little sooner to bud. They will grow back fine if any leaves were killed. It's not like they were blooming yet so you don't have a crop to lose. Here's hoping it is a bit warmer tonight! I wish it would warm up and stay there for a few months and then we could also use some rain, and I would like to find a nice friendly investor that has a few hundred thousand he needs to tie up for a few years.... and...... and ......


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## NorthernWinos

Our last average frost date is May 20th...but with this weather pattern...who can guess.

We have had less than 3/4" of rain in May...very dry here also....had moisture in April, but it was snow and most of that past us up.

Very strange weather here as well....Wishing you a good crop.


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## Joanie

Thanks for the encouragement, friends! I appreciate it!


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## grapeman

How are the vines looking today Joan? I haven't seen any frost damage yet and hope I don't. If yours got burned, I wish them a speedy recovery.


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## Joanie

I missed this post! Sorry, Appleman!

The vines with roots have seemed to make a good recovery. I am worried about my cuttings tho. They seem to be just sitting still with no new growth at all. Is that normal because they're busy growing roots?


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## grapeman

Joan, Yes and No. It is normal for the vines to initially sprout some leaves and then take a while. They opened the buds before they really had enough roots to cause vigorous growth. They are using up their reserves of carbohydrates and it takes a while to make enough to get good vigorous growth. Sometimes they will just seem to sit their for a while and all of a sudden take off in a flurry. That is why I have started putting the cuttings in a nursery the first year. That way I can baby them along their first year and the next year they have really nice roots to set out. The St. Pepin and Corot Noir I sent you were late started last year so were small. Remember the difference in root sizes between them and the Chardonel? Amazin what an extra year will grow.


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## Joanie

Ok.. I will be P A T I E N T</font> ...

sorta!</font></font>


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## Joanie

Am I the only one who is "blessed with several varieties of thistle-like weeds that like to hide in a cluster of non thistle-like weeds so when you pull the non thistle-like weeds out, you get yourself a hand fill of their non friendly pointed little needles that are so small you can't see them in your hands and fingers? My right hand took a beating this morning!

But the vines young and old are lookin' gud!


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## grapeman

The ones I hate are the stinging nettles. They like to get tangled up in the vine so you are forced to pull them- and then your hand burns for an hour after!


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## Joanie

Oh man!!!! I'm so far behind on the weeds, I'm ahead for next year! My vineyard is a mess and I'm not sure I will ever catch up! The week plus of rain made them all go crazy! They are so bad I had trouble finding the babies to spray for Japanese beetles a few days ago! They had their way with the young vines especially but I only spotted a couple this morning so that's good.

I've been working on the weeds since 7 this morning and it's slow going. I spent time weed-eating around the oldest vines. They are staked and attached to wires and in good shape now. (They sure don't look like your trained ones tho, Appleman!!!)

I have so much more work to do out there!! Eek!!


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## Wade E

Lets see some pics girl!


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## grapeman

I hear you Joan. I have been out pulling weeds this AM that I still hadn't finished with all the rain. It took me 2 hours to get90 feet done. I also clipped back growth so I don't run over it with the tractor. I am going out now to disk harrow the center of the rows on one side of the vineyar. I will then clip back the other side and probably tomorrow disk the other side. I am hoping that after a few more days of catch up work that I can start to weed and hoe the 4 rows of vines I planted last year. 


The beetles are back again- and I will try to wait until the end of the weekend to spray. I don't like working in the vineyard right after I spray- not good for a person.


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