# Pump + Timer = Bottle Filler?



## NorCal (Nov 12, 2014)

I have the usual Sureflow pump that I use for moving wine from container to container. I'd like to use this pump as an auto bottle filler. Based on the rated flow, the pump should pump enough volume to fill a bottle in six seconds. My plan is to meter that back to achieve my goal of 15 seconds.

Has anyone tried using a precision timer to turn the pump on/off to fill bottles in a fast and consistent manner? I have a 555 timer board with a relay ($6) on its way from ebay. My first try will be to simply turn the pump on and off for the necessary number of seconds to fill the bottle. 

The goal is to put a tube in the carboy/flextank/barrel, center the bottle under the other end of the tube at a fill station, hit a button and having it fill the bottle and stop at a proper point, in under 15 seconds.

Any thoughts?


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 12, 2014)

I personally think that is to powerful of a pump to do what you want. 
I believe that one delivers 3-4 gallons per minute. 

Good luck - keep us updated


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## heatherd (Nov 12, 2014)

My Ferrari auto filler does something similar and is pretty cheap.... I love that thing. 
Heather


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Makin


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## seth8530 (Nov 12, 2014)

I would be worried that your flow rate is not steady enough to achieve predictable filling. Plus, not sure if cycling the pump on and off that often is good for it.

Sounds like a fun idea, good luck!


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## garymc (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm thinking like Seth. Measuring time instead of volume. Even an accurate measurement of time doesn't necessarily mean an accurate amount of volume.


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## NorCal (Nov 12, 2014)

My error. The pump delivers 3.3 gallon per minute or 3785 ml per minute. This puts the cycle time for a 750 ml bottle at 12 seconds.

I'm with you on measuring the volume of liquid, the weight if the liquid, the height of the liquid. I just have not found an easy and inexpensive way to do it. I already have the pump.

I have a back up plan if simply turning the pump on/off doesn't provide the needed consistency. But I'll start with simple first.

@Heather I have seen the bottle fillers with the auto-stops and I can't say that I've seen one that can do more than a few bottles in a row without having to tinker or add/remove a little wine in the bottle to get it to the right height.


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## seth8530 (Nov 12, 2014)

If you had a scale that you could rig to the pumps on/off mechanism that would be a way to do it.. If you know the SG of the wine you could cycle the pump on and off based on the mass and thus volume of wine in the bottle... You might have to tune it up a bit though because I am sure once you kill the pump, the flow wont instantly cut off.


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## NorCal (Nov 12, 2014)

@Seth I looked for a programmable scale with a built it output, but couldn't find one. I also looked for a sensor that could see through green glass, no luck.

My goal is to spend <$20.


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## NorCal (Nov 12, 2014)

double post


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 12, 2014)

NorCal - Check your math - 

3.3 gallons per minute =
approx 17 bottles of wine 
60 seconds in a minute divided by 17 bottles = 3.529 seconds per bottle 

I believe that is way to large of a pump to be doing the system you are trying to build-

Using my vacuum system I am just at 15 seconds per bottle


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## sour_grapes (Nov 12, 2014)

Yeah, Steve is right -- 3.6 seconds per bottle.



NorCal said:


> I also looked for a sensor that could see through green glass, no luck.
> 
> My goal is to spend <$20.



What kind of sensors did you consider so far? Seems like a photodiode would work, no? Perhaps just choose the correct light source?


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## seth8530 (Nov 12, 2014)

Yeah, either that or a pressure sensor to put the bottle on.


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## NorCal (Nov 12, 2014)

vacuumpumpman said:


> NorCal - Check your math -
> 
> 3.3 gallons per minute =
> approx 17 bottles of wine
> ...



Thanks, I agree with your math. Doing this on the iPhone, while working, wasn't working out too well. 

My point is that the pump that I already have (and need for transfers) will be more than capable of pumping enough fluid to achieve my 15 seconds per bottle target. Increasing the rate would not be possible, but reducing the rate of flow from the pump into the bottle should be easy.


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## seth8530 (Nov 12, 2014)

Yeah, that is only a simple matter of making a bypass.


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## NorCal (Nov 12, 2014)

sour_grapes said:


> Yeah, Steve is right -- 3.6 seconds per bottle.
> 
> What kind of sensors did you consider so far? Seems like a photodiode would work, no? Perhaps just choose the correct light source?



I was looking at photodiodes and from my searches and discussion with an engineer that knows this stuff, the ones that only cost a few $ would have a problem with colored glass. 

If you know of any, point me in the direction, as this was my first choice, eliminating the worry of consistent flow and bottle size.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 12, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Yeah, that is only a simple matter of making a bypass.



Seth - 
I believe he is using a on-demand pump by shurflo - Get youself a similar pump as the mini-jet and it will be alot more controllable or go vacuum


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## NorCal (Nov 12, 2014)

I'm using Shurflo Demand Delivery Pump f2088-594-154 ,3.3GPM 110V, ebay $94. I built this little caddy to cart it around the garage and turn it on/off. I'll see if I can figure out the accuracy I need tonight: plus or minus how many ml. It will be interesting to see if the pump can consistently deliver the needed accuracy by simply turning it on/off.


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## seth8530 (Nov 12, 2014)

Relative to pumps, plumbing is cheap. But, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. I am not sure if the properties of the pump the poster is using abd whether or not it increases its load to meet demand of the flow or if the load stays constant abd thus its flowrate is highly dependent on the pressure drop thus making the flow change as the fluid volume in the carboy changes.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 12, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Relative to pumps, plumbing is cheap. But, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. I am not sure if the properties of the pump the poster is using abd whether or not it increases its load to meet demand of the flow or if the load stays constant abd thus its flowrate is highly dependent on the pressure drop thus making the flow change as the fluid volume in the carboy changes.



This particular pump is an on demand pump - referring to once it reaches the pressure it will automatically turn off at around 45 psi - give or take 10 psi


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 12, 2014)

NorCal said:


> I'm using Shurflo Demand Delivery Pump f2088-594-154 ,3.3GPM 110V, ebay $94. I built this little caddy to cart it around the garage and turn it on/off. I'll see if I can figure out the accuracy I need tonight: plus or minus how many ml. It will be interesting to see if the pump can consistently deliver the needed accuracy by simply turning it on/off.



not to burst your bubble - But I am going to have to say no on the Consistent levels in a bottle - due to the pump and all the factors that lead to this - I know you want a cheap bottle filler - but this is a trasfer pump that delivers over 3 gallons per minute.


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## NorCal (Nov 13, 2014)

vacuumpumpman said:


> not to burst your bubble - But I am going to have to say no on the Consistent levels in a bottle - due to the pump and all the factors that lead to this - I know you want a cheap bottle filler - but this is a trasfer pump that delivers over 3 gallons per minute.



VPM, you are probably right, but hey, it's the off season. If I wasn't tinkering with this, I would just be drinking wine. To get an idea on how accurate the fill needs to be, I took one on my clear Skeeter Pee bottles so 
I could see through it. I marked it off and then using a 10ml pipette, measure the difference between the low and the high fill target. The difference was 6ml. So 750ml plus or minus 3ml. That looks like a pretty darn tight target.







I did anticipate needing to tightly control the stopping of the flow, so I also ordered a $5 12V water valve from eBay, that I could open and close with the same timer. I'm thinking that might provide a more accurate start/stop of the wine than just turning the pump on and off. I ordered the part a week ago, so hopefully within the next week or so the timer and valve will arrive from Hong Kong.


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## seth8530 (Nov 13, 2014)

Keep us in the loop.


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## NorCal (Nov 13, 2014)

I learned more about this pump, which as Steve mentioned is an on-demand, low cost pump, typically used for transfers. This pump will will run until it hits it's pressure limit and then it will turn itself off. So, if you have a hose with a valve on it and the valve is closed, the pump will turn itself off. This can be a good feature that I may be able to exploit. What I found that it doesn't do well is run smoothly if the flow is overly restricted. In effect, the pump will rapidly turn on and off, as the pump is either running 100% or 0%. So, to get a nice even flow, it has to be allowed to run without too much restriction. A metered return loop to the source should allow me regulate the flow to the filler. The down side is that the the pump would be constantly running.

The other thing that I learned (and mentioned by others here) is that the bottles itself will vary from bottle to bottle. Since I need to shoot for 750ml +- 3ml, there is less than 1% margin of error to play with in the variation bottle to bottle and consistency in delivering that volume time after time. There simply may be too much inherent variation to have a 100 out of 100 successful, hit one button fill operation....we shall see.

I am also working on a third scenario, which will be a very low cost means to sense when the wine reaches the neck of the bottle, which would trigger closing the valve. I have some work to do on this path, but if the first two fail, this may work.


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## seth8530 (Nov 13, 2014)

Sounds like you have a plan.


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## spaniel (Nov 13, 2014)

The autosiphon devices work very well and are cheap. Unless it gets you to simultaneous multi-bottle filling, I'm not sure where all this effort gets you...except satisfying an intellectual itch (which is not necessarily something to be dismissed!).


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## WineQuest (Nov 13, 2014)

Wonder why nearly every commercial winery out there uses a gravity or siphon filler that shuts off based on level?


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## mikewatkins727 (Nov 13, 2014)

Need to delete my comments. Please let me.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 13, 2014)

NorCal said:


> I learned more about this pump, which as Steve mentioned is an on-demand, low cost pump, typically used for transfers. This pump will will run until it hits it's pressure limit and then it will turn itself off. So, if you have a hose with a valve on it and the valve is closed, the pump will turn itself off. This can be a good feature that I may be able to exploit. What I found that it doesn't do well is run smoothly if the flow is overly restricted. In effect, the pump will rapidly turn on and off, as the pump is either running 100% or 0%. So, to get a nice even flow, it has to be allowed to run without too much restriction. A metered return loop to the source should allow me regulate the flow to the filler. The down side is that the the pump would be constantly running.
> 
> The other thing that I learned (and mentioned by others here) is that the bottles itself will vary from bottle to bottle. Since I need to shoot for 750ml +- 3ml, there is less than 1% margin of error to play with in the variation bottle to bottle and consistency in delivering that volume time after time. There simply may be too much inherent variation to have a 100 out of 100 successful, hit one button fill operation....we shall see.
> 
> I am also working on a third scenario, which will be a very low cost means to sense when the wine reaches the neck of the bottle, which would trigger closing the valve. I have some work to do on this path, but if the first two fail, this may work.



I work with these pumps alot and very similiar ones also - If you want PM me and I would be more than happy to put my 2 cents in.

I understand that you want to do something different and unique - but you have to think about bottle height in 750 and 375 ml - if you are going that route ?

I know what it feels like by staying up all night till I finish an idea in my head !!

Thanks Steve


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## NorCal (Nov 17, 2014)

I got my $5 timer and $6 valve in. Both are working on the bench with 12v. Going to try go get the timer operational with the pump this week and see how consistently it will pump, given the exact same operating time.


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## NorCal (Nov 18, 2014)

I was able to play with the pump, timer and valve. The valve and the timer worked well, but at the 750ml volume, it was only accurate to plus or minus 15ml. It needs to be plus or minus 3 ml. I may try slowing the flow down and see how much it improves the accuracy.

I have another idea of using the timer and valve in a gravity flow and using another timer/ valve to auto back fill the gravity feed. A bit more complicated than I want, but I may give it a try.


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## seth8530 (Nov 18, 2014)

Honestly, try slowing down the flow with a bypass line. I think that would help out your +- 15 ml.


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## Putterrr (Nov 20, 2014)

They make a device for the blind that will beep when the level of liquid reaches the sensor. Maybe something like this can be used to turn you valve off/on

cheers


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## richmke (Nov 20, 2014)

IMHO: I doubt you are going to get to +/- 3ml without better (expensive) equipment.

Borrow from the AI1-

Dual port stopper with an overflow line
The intake for the overflow line is at your desired fill line
Have your setup overfill the bottle so wine goes into the overflow line
Have the overflow line drain lower than the bottle (need this anyway).
When the pump stops, remove the stopper just enough to break the air seal.
Gravity will siphon the excess wine out down to the fill line.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 20, 2014)

Rich
I actually talked to him several days ago and he actually owns a vacuum pump already. My suggestion was to purchase the bottling setup, but this is something he wants to pursue


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## NorCal (Nov 20, 2014)

This project has to take a back seat for a while, but I'm not done tinkering with it. Slowing down the flow, putting in a recirculating buffer in are my next steps. The bottom line is that the flow really needs to slow down near the end of the fill. It would be nice to fill the first half of the bottle fast, then slow it down. However, the goal is a simple, push a button and have it fill the bottle solution. The good thing is the $10 worth of timer and the valve proved to work well.


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## richmke (Nov 21, 2014)

Seems like the main benefit is to let you cork a bottle while you wait for one to fill. It is not like you can set it to fill your 30 bottles, and come back in 20 minutes.

Assuming that, then getting the bottle 90% filled, and then spending a few seconds topping it off, accomplishes 90% of what you want to achieve. It is getting the last 10% that is really challenging/expensive.

I'm guessing that frequent start/stops puts a lot of wear on the pump. Also, running at slow speeds for the pump.


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## seth8530 (Nov 21, 2014)

Will it all depends on how he decides to slow the flow abd came the flow off. I can see at least one way he could do this where he could keep the pump running continually, and keep the flow at low speeds without even touching the pump.


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## NorCal (Nov 21, 2014)

Rich, I've bottled using a gravity 4 bottle stand, vacuum, wand and all of them needed some individual bottle tweaking or full time attention to get the fill height right. Wether it was dealing with foam or inconsistency of the equipment. A big deal? No not really, especially seeing how I will be bottling less than 500 bottles next year. Still a challenge that I'm interested in pursuing.

The pump is designed to come on and off by itself, I don't think there is any harm that would be done to the pump. A better pump would be one that had a variable output, versus being 100% on/off.


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## JohnT (Nov 21, 2014)

Here is a question, and I am not too sure this might not have already been brought up, why base filling on time? 

Wouldn't it be much, much better to base the filling on weight? Wouldn't some sort of weight activated switch be much easier to "dial in"?


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## richmke (Nov 21, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Wouldn't it be much, much better to base the filling on weight? Wouldn't some sort of weight activated switch be much easier to "dial in"?



Weight presumes identical bottles. 

1) He might be re-using bottles of different types/shapes/etc.
2) It is possible that the variation in weight of even identical bottles is more than the weight of a few ml of wine.


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## JohnT (Nov 21, 2014)

richmke said:


> Weight presumes identical bottles.
> 
> 1) He might be re-using bottles of different types/shapes/etc.
> 2) It is possible that the variation in weight of even identical bottles is more than the weight of a few ml of wine.


 

My thinking is that there might be something on the market that "zero's out" like a digital scale. If you can find one, you could place the bottle on the scale, zero it out, then have the switch trigger when 750ml wine-weight is reached? 

My thinking is that this method would have the same accuracy problems, but could fill much, much faster.


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## NorCal (Nov 21, 2014)

I will be filling new or reused bottles that would be from the same producer, so bottle to bottle variation should be minimized. I'm thinking that should be pretty minimal.


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## richmke (Nov 21, 2014)

1 ml of wine weighs about 0.035 ounces. So, to be +/- 3ml, the scale would have to be accurate to within +/- 0.1 ounces. That is pretty high accuracy.

That presumes your system cuts off in a repeatable fashion. If there is error in your system, the amount of wine delivered after cutoff could easily vary by +/- 3ml. 3ml is about 1/2 of a teaspoon.


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## GeoS (Nov 21, 2014)

You do not want to cycle your pump on and off. Each time it starts it pulls about 6 times its rated current and most motors have limitations on how many times you can do that without damaging the pump. Also, you do not want to block off the discharge side of the pump. If you close a valve the pump will be pushing fluid into a "wall" and will over heat as well. The motor shaft will slow down and cause excessive currents.

I would recommend putting an electronic valve on the suction side, where the fluid is drawn out of the bucket. This way the pump will be trying to pull fluid that is not there and it will not damage the pump. 

3.3 GPM is a lot to fill a bottle. Perhaps try a needle valve to regulate the flow to something more reasonable. Just put it in the suction side as well.


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## GeoS (Nov 21, 2014)

You could also use a bypass valve. Just loop the excessive wine back to the bucket. You can buy bypass valves that you set for a given flow rate so only the rate you want goes to the bottler.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 22, 2014)

richmke said:


> Weight presumes identical bottles.



With a tare function, maybe?


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## richmke (Nov 22, 2014)

GeoS said:


> I would recommend putting an electronic valve on the suction side, where the fluid is drawn out of the bucket. This way the pump will be trying to pull fluid that is not there and it will not damage the pump.



A lot of liquid pumps use the liquid to cool the pump. Draw air, and it could cause the pump to overheat.

Using a bypass switch on the output side would have a lot of wine circulating through the pump. I know that a lot of turbulence is introduced when mechanically degassing. I wonder how damaging excessive turbulence can be on the wine. To be on the safe side, I would keep a cap of CO2 on top of the wine. It would minimize any O2 dissolving in due to the surface turbulence.


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## GeoS (Nov 22, 2014)

Running wine through a pump causes excessive turbulence. I wouldn't be too concerned about cooling the pump, its the motor that will overheat.


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## NorCal (Nov 22, 2014)

@Geos, the pump manufacturer says the pump is made for "dispense on demand" applications and "intermittent use", so there are protections built into this pump to allow using it in this manner.


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## tanddc (Nov 22, 2014)

I think the pump is used for RV's. It is fine to cycle these pumps and I don't think that heat will be an issue. Some of there pumps come with a built in bypass (so they don't cycle as often with low volume usage). This will kill your timer idea but would work well with the scale. My kitchen scale measures to grams so .1 oz would be nothing.

I just bought my wife one of the Ferrari automatic bottle fillers. We will see how well it works tonight providing I can find an auto syphon locally. I broke mine last night


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 22, 2014)

NorCal -
Picture using the Allinone bottling setup and using your timed solenoid inline.

The valve would go in the vacuum side and it typically only takes 15 seconds using the Allinonewinepump. So you could set it at 17 seconds per say and all the overflow will be caught in a separate bottle. You would have exact consitentant height every time - no matter which type of bottle you have. It would be very similar to the Allinone - but more automated - so you can walk away for 17 seconds per bottle fill. 

If there are others out there that would like this added fearture to the Allinone - please let me know and I will look more into it - seems simple enough.


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## NorCal (Nov 23, 2014)

I had some time this morning to tinker with the project. In an effort to reduce the variance due to the pump and to slow the flow I put a T fitting in and a valve to control the flow on the return. Here is a little video I shot:

http://youtu.be/4Jzm45NJr_I

I then adjusted the time down a little and ran 5 bottles back to back. As you can see, the accuracy is still right about plus or minus 15ml, way more than the plus or minus 3 that I need. 







So, I agree with others that said that it is not the right pump for the job. There are a lot of fluid dynamics as well, that I'm not sure I would ever really get to the bottom of. I have most of the makings (including a vacuum pump) to do as Steve suggested, so maybe I'll give that a try.


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## GeoS (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm not sure why you need to go through all of this to get the accuracy. If you want bottles to be filled consistently use a bottling wand and fill the bottle just until it starts to overflow. Let the wand make up the amount of volume you need in the neck. If you need more volume than the wand has wrap some plumbing tape around it or put rubber grommets on it.

Basically, fill the bottle to the top and when you pull the wand out the fluid in the bottle will go down.


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## NorCal (Nov 27, 2014)

Geos, it is perhaps a matter of needs and wants. With the 100 gallons I'm doing this year, I probably don't need an automated solution, but, I want one and think I can do so by using inexpensive and readily available parts. Not much else to do in the garage, except stare at the barrels


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## cmason1957 (Nov 27, 2014)

My wife and I do about 150 gallons per year. We use gravity siphon and a Ferrari auto shutoff Filler. You just put it in the bottle, press down, it fills to a predetermined, variable height, flow stops, push button, move to next bottle. I don't think it can get much simpler. Both she and I have bottled alone with the setup. They cost something less than $20.


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## tanddc (Nov 28, 2014)

cmason1957 said:


> My wife and I do about 150 gallons per year. We use gravity siphon and a Ferrari auto shutoff Filler. You just put it in the bottle, press down, it fills to a predetermined, variable height, flow stops, push button, move to next bottle. I don't think it can get much simpler. Both she and I have bottled alone with the setup. They cost something less than $20.



We just purchased one of these as well and have run into problems with it leaking out the top. Is there a trick to these?

OP, sorry to highjack your thread with the question above.

I like to tinker as well and have been watching this conversation because I find it very interesting. If you have 12 volt relay and power source, it might be as simple as couple of bare wires on your filling wand at the level you want the wine to shut off and use the wine to complete the circuit.


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## seth8530 (Nov 28, 2014)

I would still do this via mass instead of level, but I think some here miss the point... This is not necessarily about making bottling r easier, it is more about the tinkering.. which seems evident to me from sine off his older post. And why not? Isn't wine making tinkering too? Why not just buy boxed wine? Because making wine is fun.


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## sour_grapes (Nov 28, 2014)

tanddc said:


> I like to tinker as well and have been watching this conversation because I find it very interesting. If you have 12 volt relay and power source, it might be as simple as couple of bare wires on your filling wand at the level you want the wine to shut off and use the wine to complete the circuit.



Hey, now that is a good idea. I had been thinking of a solution for NorCal that involved light sensing; I even went so far as to look at transmission curves (as a function of light frequency) through glass vs. water, but did not get too far. But tanddc's idea sounds simpler and more reliable.


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## NorCal (Nov 28, 2014)

tanddc said:


> We just purchased one of these as well and have run into problems with it leaking out the top. Is there a trick to these?
> 
> OP, sorry to highjack your thread with the question above.
> 
> I like to tinker as well and have been watching this conversation because I find it very interesting. If you have 12 volt relay and power source, it might be as simple as couple of bare wires on your filling wand at the level you want the wine to shut off and use the wine to complete the circuit.



No problem, and it is relevant because all the bottlers I have used required some form of adjustment or clean up on a regular basis to get the fill height in the neck of the bottle.
I thought about the probes, but in order for that to be effective, you would have to progressively slow the fill rate as it reaches the top, which is difficult with this style pump.


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## richmke (Nov 28, 2014)

Prefill a tank to a known amount 750 ml, and then dump the tank into the bottle. The tank refills as your are swapping out bottles.


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## cmason1957 (Nov 28, 2014)

tanddc said:


> We just purchased one of these as well and have run into problems with it leaking out the top. Is there a trick to these?
> 
> OP, sorry to highjack your thread with the question above.
> 
> I like to tinker as well and have been watching this conversation because I find it very interesting. If you have 12 volt relay and power source, it might be as simple as couple of bare wires on your filling wand at the level you want the wine to shut off and use the wine to complete the circuit.



I have had that same problem and just live with it. I have a friend who used to own a lhbs tell me he always attached the champagne adapter thing and just puts that into an overflow bottle.


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## GeoS (Nov 29, 2014)

No better reason to do it than just to tinker. The idea with the wires as probes sounds like a good one. You just need to be consistent with the insertion depth. Especially if you use bottles with the punt at the bottom. Perhaps use a cap of sorts that prevents the wand from going to the bottom of the bottle. Something attached to the wand that sets the insertion depth. Connect the wires to that so the reference point is the top of the bottle not the bottom.


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## NorCal (Dec 1, 2014)

I'm pretty happy with the testing of my vacuum set up. One of the difficult part for me has been finding a way to use a #1 stopper, so I get a consistent seal on the bottle. Using a Home Depot 1/2 inch T fitting and bits and pieces I had, it looks like this will work fine. The line from the wine has a tube within the fitting. Fill time is around 16 seconds, 3 seconds is the latency associated with using a big overflow container. The big overflow also provides a vacuum reservoir and it continues to pull wne after the pump is shut off. Once I put the valve in, I think this will resolve that issue.


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 1, 2014)

Norcal
I am glad that you tried and had very good results with it. I do sell the bottling attachment to make your job easier if you would like. 
I know putting the valve inline will help as long as you have the correct one


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## GeoS (Dec 2, 2014)

Looks good. I like the configuration.


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## diywinemakers (Dec 4, 2014)

Did you ever consider using a two hole stopper like this one ($9) ?




Or a filler head like this one (more expensive of course $69)?




They will both give you a consistent seal on the bottle. 


NorCal said:


> I'm pretty happy with the testing of my vacuum set up. One of the difficult part for me has been finding a way to use a #1 stopper, so I get a consistent seal on the bottle. Using a Home Depot 1/2 inch T fitting and bits and pieces I had, it looks like this will work fine. The line from the wine has a tube within the fitting. Fill time is around 16 seconds, 3 seconds is the latency associated with using a big overflow container. The big overflow also provides a vacuum reservoir and it continues to pull wne after the pump is shut off. Once I put the valve in, I think this will resolve that issue.


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## NorCal (Dec 5, 2014)

@DIY, is that's a #1 stopper? I've tried #3 stoppers with two holes and I wasn't able to get a good, consistent seal. With the tube in a tube configuration, I could use a #1 stopper.


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 5, 2014)

NorCal said:


> @DIY, is that's a #1 stopper? I've tried #3 stoppers with two holes and I wasn't able to get a good, consistent seal. With the tube in a tube configuration, I could use a #1 stopper.



Norcal a # 3 stopper with the tubes placed properly will work just fine - otherwise I have #2 in stock as well. I can't see a # 1 working as a #2 fits in a beer bottle almost flush (which has a smaller opening than a wine bottle )


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## diywinemakers (Dec 5, 2014)

NorCal, it is a #2 stopper. 

We have two versions:

The silicone version:




The rubber version:




Both fit regular bottles (inside diameter of 18.5mm) perfectly. 

That stainless steel filler head is essentially a "tube in a tube" design, with other features such as filling level adjustment, anti-foaming ring. It uses a silicone sealing ring to ensure a consistent seal. 



NorCal said:


> @DIY, is that's a #1 stopper? I've tried #3 stoppers with two holes and I wasn't able to get a good, consistent seal. With the tube in a tube configuration, I could use a #1 stopper.


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## NorCal (Dec 15, 2014)

Some more work on the auto bottle filler. Using my vacuum pump and overfilling by a second or two into an overflow bottle, it looks like I have a working solution. There is a valve in the box ($16) that is normally opened. When the button is hit ($2), it initiates the timer ($5), which closes the valve and the vacuum then draws the wine to the bottle. There is an overflow bottle to catch 1-2 seconds worth of wine, to assure a consistent fill. Fill time is right at 15 seconds and has the benefit of hands free operation and no fussing with the fill. 

I've filled a 100 or so bottles with water and happy with the results. There may be some additional tweaking necessary when it's time to bottle the wine.













Video of operation: http://youtu.be/mJcjjAGfulI


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 15, 2014)

I tried viewing your Video of operation: http://youtu.be/mJcjjAGfulI

And it said it was private ?

I am happy for you that you got your bottle system working the way you wanted it to


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## NorCal (Dec 15, 2014)

Fixed the video link:

Video of operation: http://youtu.be/mJcjjAGfulI


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## seth8530 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hmm, still won't let me see it. Check your sharing settings.


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## NorCal (Dec 15, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Hmm, still won't let me see it. Check your sharing settings.



Hmmm, please try again, let me know.


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## seth8530 (Dec 15, 2014)

Worked like a champ!


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## sour_grapes (Dec 15, 2014)

Looks great! Nice job.

I am curious about the "go switch." It looks like some sort of safety switch that you must enable first? I have not seen that particular kind before. Any info on it?

Just curious: For the 555 timer, did you just use a large RC time constant to get to ~15 seconds, or did you use some sort of two-stage latching circuit?


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## NorCal (Dec 15, 2014)

Hey Sour,

What I needed was a switch that I could hit and stay on, which started the timer and power to the valve. The timer then turns the valve off after it times out. The 555 timer with a relay is a RC circuit built on a module with a pot on it. I picked up on ebay, $5 delivered. The mushroom switch works as an on, or an off switch, when depressed. $2 delivered from ebay. If you are interested in links to the parts, send me a PM.


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## diywinemakers (Dec 17, 2014)

NorCal, 

Watched your video and it is VERY cool. I am impressed!

Since you are so good at woodworking. I think you can make switching bottles a little easier by adding a spring-loaded arm, like this one but instead of aluminum alloy you can use wood of course.


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## seth8530 (Dec 17, 2014)

Nice, looks like it worked out great. I am glad you went through with this, despite the occasional doubter.


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## NorCal (May 12, 2015)

I have a group of 5 winemakers coming over to bottle 60 gallons of our Rhone project in July. I need to have this thing work like a champ. 

It has been sitting around and I had 5 gallons of Skeeter to bottle, so I broke it out. It worked like a champ. 24 bottles straight without fiddling, topping bottles, drips. I'll take more video and see how it does with 300 bottles in a row.


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## NorCal (May 12, 2015)

diywinemakers said:


> NorCal,
> 
> Watched your video and it is VERY cool. I am impressed!
> 
> Since you are so good at woodworking. I think you can make switching bottles a little easier by adding a spring-loaded arm, like this one but instead of aluminum alloy you can use wood of course.



DIY, I could absolutely see that an arm like that is a good idea. Hmmm...I'm always up for an upgrade.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 12, 2015)

NorCal -

Here is another really easy to make and fully adjustable by turning a screw and adjusting to your bottle height.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44701

I can give you more details if you need


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## NorCal (Jul 18, 2015)

I bottled 200 bottles (cab franc, syrah) yesterday and have a group coming over today to bottle another 300 ( Rhone blend). It worked like a champ yesterday, although I'm noticing the air valve may not be opening all the way and there is some vacuum that stays on after the timer turns off. Not a big deal, but I'm thinking it could be because the valve is designed for fluid being pushed through it, versus air being sucked through it.

A wine neighbor stopped by, who helped a commercial winery the day before. He said my filler worked just as good as the filler at the winery (not sure type, but the winery does 3,000 cases per year).


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## NorCal (Jul 19, 2015)

Well, the bottler showed its inconsistency over the 300 bottles. It would do 5 in row fine then fill the next bottle up 75%. Most of the time it was due to not getting a good seal on the bottle being filled. I could manually fill it a little more, but not having to fiddle with the bottles after it completed the first time fill was the purpose. 500 bottles in two days was a pretty good task. 

It got the job done, but really didn't operate to my satisfaction. I'll put it away until I'm ready to go through it and make it more robust.


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## JohnT (Jul 24, 2015)

Sorry to hear that Norcal. 

500 bottles?? Nice! 

Any pictures of the bottler or of you guys bottling??


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## NorCal (Jul 24, 2015)

Here is a shot of the set-up. The second day we did a 60 gallon GSM blend project, all in carboys from grapes.


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## JohnT (Jul 24, 2015)

Very nice! Thanks!


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