# new innovations for sediment removal



## jamesngalveston (May 22, 2013)

Sediment concerns me. 
I left a 1 gallon carboy just sit after fermentation..There was almost 1 1/2 of sediment in the bottom after only a few months.. That takes up valuable space in my thoughts.
1 1/2 inch of sediment x 360 degrees times one degree of 1 logarithm means I lost 2.4 cups of wine, almost 20 oz, from displacement.
1.5 x 360 x .01745 x liquid equal.
which means you have to top off...lots.
I have contracted a blow mold mfg to build an inverted bottle with air lock on top, a flow valve on bottom, with 3 screen filters, (replaceable) and a center weighted air tight drop tube to compensate for the loss of space due to sediment.
So what ever waste you toss... You add that volume of water to compensate for the waste.. Meaning...you dont have to top off. And the water never contacts the wine.
Just add water to the air tight center tube.
Any how...I am working on it. Will post results...


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## DoctorCAD (May 22, 2013)

Or you could simply start with 1.2 gallons...much easier and WAY cheaper.

However, conical fermentors are readily available. They are similar to your design.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 22, 2013)

I came up with a similar idea as well - but it never took off

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f3/carboy-air-space-bladder-trial-version-18124/


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## jamesngalveston (May 23, 2013)

thats cool vacuumpumpman and thinking out the box...like myself..
my carboy is 2 peices. the top screws down on to the bottom with and o ring to make a tight seal...like a swimming pool filter.
the water insert can be filled and dropped in the carboy.
and you could use it as a primary if you remove the top to add ingredients.
thanks for replys.


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## jswordy (May 23, 2013)

Marbles are cheap.


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## dessertmaker (May 25, 2013)

So are bigger carboys.


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## geek (May 25, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> Sediment concerns me.
> I left a 1 gallon carboy just sit after fermentation..There was almost 1 1/2 of sediment in the bottom after only a few months.. That takes up valuable space in my thoughts.
> 1 1/2 inch of sediment x 360 degrees times one degree of 1 logarithm means I lost 2.4 cups of wine, almost 20 oz, from displacement.
> 1.5 x 360 x .01745 x liquid equal.
> ...



sounds interesting...


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## mavisstwineco (May 29, 2013)

I think there is something to this. I shocked my wine and I sampled it a week later. It tasted so good I bottled it! A vast improvement from the sample I tasted prior to shocking.


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## vacuumpumpman (May 29, 2013)

mavisstwineco said:


> I think there is something to this. I shocked my wine and I sampled it a week later. It tasted so good I bottled it! A vast improvement from the sample I tasted prior to shocking.



Can you go into more detail about shocking your wine ??


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## gird123 (May 29, 2013)

I had a friend that did this to remove rust from car parts would put the car part in water then used a battery charger connected to the car part and one lead to a stainless rod and put it in the water not in contact with the car part. Would change the voltage 6 or 12 depending on the type of metal. Said it worked great. Sounds cool .


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## gird123 (May 29, 2013)

Danger
Danger


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## gird123 (May 29, 2013)

gird123 said:


> Danger
> Danger



Do not try at home. I repeat DO NOT TRY.


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## mavisstwineco (May 30, 2013)

vacuumpumpman said:


> Can you go into more detail about shocking your wine ??



Per jamesngalveston's idea I got a 12v transformer (found at RadioShack for $8). Then wire extension cord to transformer then run 1 wire to the switch and out with the end exposed (connected to transformer output). Run another wire directly from the transformer leaving the end exposed. Dip the exposed wires in the wine plug in extension cord and throw the switch. I have only left the rig running for a second, literally.

Be safe


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## Stressbaby (May 30, 2013)

12 volt _*AC*_?


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## mavisstwineco (May 30, 2013)

Not 100% sure. the transformer doesn't say.


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## jamesngalveston (May 30, 2013)

I am not encouraging anyone to do anything ...I merely stated what we did.
Do not put your self in harms way for nothing.
Electricity and any liquid can be dangerous......
please be carefull liquid and electric can be fatal....
12 volt alternating current...hummmm


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## mavisstwineco (May 30, 2013)

I have read some studies on electricity and aging and made an educated decision to try it. I would use extreme caution when doing this. None of the studies are very definitive on introducing a current to the wine it self. This rapid aging can be done effectively through transferring the wine through a glass tube past a magnetic field rather than shocking it.

May want to research for yourself before attempting to go all out shocking!


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## BernardSmith (May 30, 2013)

What is it about a magnetic field that ages the wine? How strong does the field need to be? What is the evidence that magnetic fields have any measurable effect?


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## mavisstwineco (May 30, 2013)

BernardSmith said:


> What is it about a magnetic field that ages the wine? How strong does the field need to be? What is the evidence that magnetic fields have any measurable effect?



http://www.idealog.co.nz/blog/2011/06/its-electric-how-age-wine-minutes-not-years

I am not electrically inclined. My knowledge on the science of it is non-existent really.


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## jswordy (May 31, 2013)

mavisstwineco said:


> Per jamesngalveston's idea I got a 12v transformer (found at RadioShack for $8). Then wire extension cord to transformer then run 1 wire to the switch and out with the end exposed (connected to transformer output). Run another wire directly from the transformer leaving the end exposed. Dip the exposed wires in the wine plug in extension cord and throw the switch. I have only left the rig running for a second, literally.
> 
> Be safe



Your transformer likely converted 120 VAC to 12 VDC. Most do. There is little chance of hazard or injury using 12VDC current. Did you see the snowing effect James mentioned?


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## jswordy (May 31, 2013)

mavisstwineco said:


> http://www.idealog.co.nz/blog/2011/06/its-electric-how-age-wine-minutes-not-years
> 
> I am not electrically inclined. My knowledge on the science of it is non-existent really.



This has been a debated subject for awhile. Some call it snake-oil. Others think there is something there.

UNDER EDIT: Same idea, bottle top model with fixed magnets instead of electrically generated magnetic field...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QFN90M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Or...

http://www.shooterbuddy.com


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## jamesngalveston (May 31, 2013)

js, thanks...I think that is a bit of snake oil....
just think you could put frig magnets all around the whole bottle.
lol, thanks


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## mavisstwineco (May 31, 2013)

jswordy said:


> Your transformer likely converted 120 VAC to 12 VDC. Most do. There is little chance of hazard or injury using 12VDC current. Did you see the snowing effect James mentioned?



No snowing effect...

By the time I shocked the wine ferm was finished and the wine was clear. James and my experiments were for different reasons. His was for sediment reasons and mine was to make young wine better.. 

I can't say for sure that it worked because I have no control batch to taste.


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## jswordy (May 31, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> js, thanks...I think that is a bit of snake oil....
> just think you could put frig magnets all around the whole bottle.
> lol, thanks



The young man with his aging machine is doing the same thing. He is using an electrically generated magnetic field as opposed to a static field. Same exact effect.

What I'm saying is that these ideas have been around awhile, and so I am wondering why no lower-end winery to my knowledge has picked up on them and treated all its wines with magnetic or electromagnetic fields to age them faster.

Now, my understanding is that you are passing a direct current through the wine, which is another matter, but still you are inducing an electromagnetic field. I am interested in your results.

I find this statement interesting: "Fining removes unwanted products from the wine by electromagnetism; the agents are added to the wine to attract the unwanted products in the tank and cause them to sink to the bottom." Source: http://www.essortment.com/eco-friendly-guide-italian-wine-113790.html

Likewise, this article: http://www.winexmagazine.com/index.php/wine/viewdrink/vino-magnetism/


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## seth8530 (May 31, 2013)

I am a nuclear engineering major so I know a bit about things down on the atomic level.... when you apply a charge in a medium ions will tend to want to migrate towards this way or that way depending on their charge... but, this would not affect the uncharged particles which are pretty much anything that is chemically stable.. I can possibly imagine the particles in the wine all turning the same direction as eachother as the charge changes sides but, as that happens you have to remember that all the others would likely be doing the same thing giving you a net change in direction that would be rather small I think....

I am not saying this is not possible.. .I just not really sold on it.


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## seth8530 (May 31, 2013)

Just did a little more reading on it... It seems you can feasibly control some outcomes of chemical reactions with electrical fields but, it is not the kind of thing you do on a bulk scale.. much more on a precision level I believe.. It looks like to me this kind of stuff is the kind of thing done on the high end R&D level and not really a bulk catalyst kind of deal.. If anyone can correct me please feel free so that we can all learn.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02401938
http://phys.org/news191666043.html
http://techfinder.stanford.edu/technology_detail.php?ID=28917


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## jswordy (May 31, 2013)

I see Seth's hooked, too.


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## seth8530 (May 31, 2013)

Indeed, I tend to not believe in things that sound sciency just to sound like science and make people buy into them.. But if proper research is done and the theory is sound then I might take a look...

JS, as far as your idea for a sediment removal device I think something simple would be a little better.. Imagine a conical fermenter where most of the sediment will collect in the cone. Say, if you were able to operate a sliding mechanism in the fermenter so that you seal off the conical part of the fermenter where the sediment is trapped. Once the sediment is separated from the wine in this trap, you can then open a valve on the trap to remove the sediment. Once the sediment has been removed with minimal loss of wine you are then rid of the sediment. Close the valve and then you can either leave the seperater plate in place or withdraw it and top off what little bit you now need to.


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## jamesngalveston (May 31, 2013)

Seth, interesting reading your post, as well as JsWordy.
Bare with me.
What if we had concial fermenter with a perfectly matched round plate with ocring gasket to the side of the fermenter, that was able to be moved torwards the bottom.
With a closeable hole.
Meaning.
You open the hole, as the plate goes down the wine goes up.
When you get to the bottom, close the hole, drain off sediment.
Once the sediment is off.
Open hole, raise plate, wine goes back in.
Js, any thought to this...


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