# Crushed it yesterday!



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

So, I had a busy weekend... 

Back story: In the 11th hour, my grape supplier (Corrado's) called to tell me that they were not getting any Chilean grapes this year. I did manage to find another supplier (Gino Pinto), but they were much further away.

My weekend:

On Friday, after work, I raced over to my brother's house to pick up his van. Emptied it and swept it out. On the way home, I picked up a large pizza. I did not realize how hungry I was! Between myself and the wife, we polished off the entire pie! 

I did not get a whole lot of sleep in Friday night. I mostly tossed and turned thinking about the 5 hours of driving I had to do in the morning. I always get excited the day before I pick up a load of grapes. This time, I had more to worry about. I was driving my brother's van, had that long drive, to a place I have never been to, and, on top of that, to a supplier I have never dealt with before (Gino Pinot). Seeeeeesh, what could possibly go wrong??

On Saturday, I was out the door by 6:30am. With a pit stop for some breakfast (Garden state parkway food is every bit as bad as you could imagine), I ended up getting there by 8:30. With the GPS, it really was a simple drive. 

Met with Mike (I am guessing Mike Pinto?) and took an instant liking to the guy. After a quick look a the grapes (no tell tale signs of them being shriveled up, soft, or moldy) I asked him if I could increase my order. I had originally ordered a total of 44 cabernet and 8 merlot. I figured this to come to around 250 liters. Since it was going into a 300 liter tank, I figured that I had the room in the tank for more! I upped my order there on the spot and he was all to happy to accommodate me! 

In the end, I got another 10 crates. This comes to 1116 pounds of grapes that should yield around 292 liters of finished wine. .....


----------



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

*continued....*

The drive back was, again, a long but simple drive. Before leaving, Mike shook my hand and said that he hoped I would keep them in mind for the fall crush. He explained that he actually owned his own vineyards just south of Nappa and supplies a lot of the wineries in the tri state area with supplemental grapes. He said that he sends grapes as far as the north fork of long island. 

He went further to say that he could arrange to have grapes sent to one of the wineries closer to me, where I could pick them up and not have to drive so far. This gave me a lot to think about during the long drive back to my winery..

Once back, I did some last minute cleaning of equipment. I had to scrub out the primary, totes (used for sorting), and a number of other items. Once I got that complete, My nephew showed up and we (together) started cooking the meat sauce for the crush day lasagna (in true Hungarian tradition, we opted for Italian food for crush). Made a HUGE post of sauce just crammed with meat. 

While the sauce was cooking, we repaired to the basement to watch The Godfather. My nephew, my Godson, never saw the movie so we made the plan to watch both Godfather 1 and 2. The amazing thing is that by the time Godfather 1 was over (3 hours), the sauce was ready.

We assembled 2 lasagnas, one for the freezer and one for after crush. We took care to save some of the sauce which I served over spaghetti for eating while we watched Godfather 2.

Stuffed, and exhausted, went to be around 11pm. It did my heart good to host a Godson that treated my with such respect!!!


----------



## dcbrown73 (May 16, 2016)

Great story. 

Let me know when the wines ready and I will stop by for a glass.


----------



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

*continued again....*

On Sunday morning we crushed the grapes! although I waked at 4am, I did manage to get about 4 hours sleep. I put the coffee on and relaxed over a couple of cups.

One daylight came, I set up a small sorting line and the destemmer just outside the winery's doors. 

I ended up with a crew of 5 (not including myself) and all kin folk (2 brothers, 1 niece, and 2 nephews). We started around 9am and had all the grapes crushed, all the equipment clean and put away by 11am. We had a lot of fun and I am happy to say that not a thing went wrong! All that lost sleep for nothing!

After clean up, we formed the chairs into a circle in the winery. I opened a 2007 Napa merlot, a 2010 Cab Franc, and a 2013 Barrel reserve. These were 3 of my better wines. From there, we did some tank tastings. 2015 is shaping up to be a good year.

At 12:30 we repaired to the dining room for lunch. Lasagna, garlic bread, and cesar salad. My younger brother's birthday was 5/11, so we got him a cake and sang to him. For my brother, it was unexpected and very much appreciated.

Once lunch was over, the crew left. It was, after all, Sunday and folks like to relax before another hellish week of work. By 2pm, all was quite, the dishes were washed, the kitchen and dining room were cleaned, and I relaxed in front of the TV watching a Leverage marathon. 

The whole thing was like a blur!!!!


----------



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

*Continued yet again*

When all was said and done, I ended up with about 450 liters of must. 

Here are the numbers: 

- Brix: 23

- TA: .48 pre ferment adjustment of 35 grams of tartaric acid. 

- added 39 gram pre-treatment of K-meta (50ppm) 

- added an initial nutrient dose (of 24 grams of fermax and 110 grams of DAP). 


My issue is the temperature of the must. It was 50 degrees coming out of the destemmer. I raised the temperature in the winery (it has it's own heat zone) to 75 degrees. By this morning, the temperature was 56. I hope to get it up to at least the low 60s by this evening (So I can pitch my yeast).


----------



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> Great story.
> 
> Let me know when the wines ready and I will stop by for a glass.


 

Any time DC!


----------



## ibglowin (May 16, 2016)

So how many miles was it one way? I sorta calculated ~110 miles one way. Is that close? It takes 5 hours to go 110 miles in NJ!?!?!?! 

I have to drive 400 miles one way to get my grapes! 




JohnT said:


> I mostly tossed and turned thinking about the 5 hours of driving I had to do in the morning......


----------



## NorCal (May 16, 2016)

Great planning, executed perfectly!


----------



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

ibglowin said:


> So how many miles was it one way? I sorta calculated ~110 miles one way.


 
I was talking round trip. 

It was not so much the drive but the combination of not knowing where I was going while driving a in a strange vehicle while hauling half a ton of cargo. I also did not know how the van would handle highways while loaded. I know I worry about nothing..


----------



## Floandgary (May 16, 2016)

JohnT said:


> I was talking round trip.
> 
> It was not so much the drive but the combination of not knowing where I was going while driving a in a strange vehicle while hauling half a ton of cargo. I also did not know how the van would handle highways while loaded. I know I worry about nothing..



In that other world it's called "thinking ahead"!! I bet you don't like surprises either :<


----------



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

Floandgary said:


> In that other world it's called "thinking ahead"!! I bet you don't like surprises either :<


 
I guess that I am always in fear of the "worst case scenario".


----------



## JohnT (May 16, 2016)

*One Final Note..*

I do not do this often enough, but I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to my wife (my LOML). 

Not only did she knock herself out getting the house "Home and Garden" clean, but she also did all of the grocery shopping. She also took charge of setting up for lunch, making the salad, putting the lasagna in the oven, making the garlic bread, and also picking a birthday cake up for my brother. 

She also did most of the cleaning up after it was all over.

As a spouse of over 26 years, it is easy to neglect the efforts of my wife. Well, not this time! I am truly fortunate to have her.


----------



## pgentile (May 16, 2016)

Glad to hear Gino Pinto's worked out for you. But I can understand your anxiety about the whole thing. 5 hours of driving, borrowed van, $1700+ of grapes from a new supplier and then the whole winery process. I have anxiety over my micro operation can't imagine how I would be with yours.

Racked off the gross lees yesterday and pitched MLB in my Carmenere from Gino's. Smell and taste are pretty darn good so far.


----------



## JohnT (May 17, 2016)

pgentile said:


> Glad to hear Gino Pinto's worked out for you. But I can understand your anxiety about the whole thing. 5 hours of driving, borrowed van, $1700+ of grapes from a new supplier and then the whole winery process. I have anxiety over my micro operation can't imagine how I would be with yours.
> 
> Racked off the gross lees yesterday and pitched MLB in my Carmenere from Gino's. Smell and taste are pretty darn good so far.


 
I have been dealing with Corrado's for a long time (for at least 25 years) and they have always taken good care of me in the fall. Also, I am on a first name basis with Jimmy Corrado and most everyone that works there. There has been a level of trust that has developed and it would be difficult to toss that aside. 

The trouble is that they seem to have a problem with Chilean grapes every 2 or 3 years. This is not the first time that they have cancelled on me. This is why I do not have any problem with dealing with Gino. 

In fact, I think that I will make Gino's my "go to" supplier for Chilean from here on. I liked their operation, although it seemed a little smaller than I expected. I also expected to see a larger "show-room". The one they had only seemed to have a small amount of items. (_Note: It might be that this was a second facility, used more for warehousing_).


----------



## JohnT (May 17, 2016)

*Pitched yeast*

Waaaaahoooo! 

Last night, the temp of the must was 61 degrees, the low end of the operational range of RC212 (59 degrees to 86 degrees). Pitched 1/2 of my yeast (80 grams) last night. 

I do not bother with a yeast starter. I just sprinkle the yeast on top of the must and let it sit overnight. I know that a yeast starter is better for the yeast, but simply adding the dry yeast is what I have always done, has become habit, and has never really given me any trouble (that I can tell). 

The added benefit is that the warmest part of the primary is at the surface. The highest concentration of O2 is also at the surface. Adding a yeast culture would place the yeast deeper in the fermenter. Since this is going to be cooler, my thinking is that the yeast would have a tougher time kicking off. I may be off in my thinking, but it works for me. 

I punched down this morning. The yeast has bloomed nicely and I am also noticing some decent color extraction. 

I will add the other half of my yeast tonight after punching down.


----------



## dcbrown73 (May 17, 2016)

When you say punch down, are you referring to stirring the must and I suppose the foam cap that forms?


----------



## Boatboy24 (May 17, 2016)

Do you always add your yeast 1/2 at a time?


----------



## JohnT (May 17, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> When you say punch down, are you referring to stirring the must and I suppose the foam cap that forms?


 
Yes, although at this point it is just stirring. Fermentation has not yet begun and there really is no raft. I expect that there will be a defined raft this evening for me to "punch down" into the must.

I use a stainless steel punch down tool much like this...


----------



## Jericurl (May 17, 2016)

This is a fun thread, please keep us updated on everything!

What a fun couple of days. I sure wish I was closer to an operation like that here. There is so much to learn when you can put hands on somewhere.

Also, I had no idea you had that kind of setup!


----------



## JohnT (May 17, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Do you always add your yeast 1/2 at a time?


 
Not always. 

This time around, since we are at the extreme low end of the temp zone, am going to pitch twice (just in case the first pitching does not take hold). 

I do not want an extended cold soak here and want to get fermentation started just as soon as possible. 

I know that this may be a big no-no, and that I run the risk of stressing the yeast, but I have used this technique in the past and had only positive results.


----------



## JohnT (May 17, 2016)

Jericurl said:


> This is a fun thread, please keep us updated on everything!
> 
> What a fun couple of days. I sure wish I was closer to an operation like that here. There is so much to learn when you can put hands on somewhere.
> 
> Also, I had no idea you had that kind of setup!


 
The operation meets the needs of my family. Each family member contributes. The operation would never work otherwise. 

An operation like this could be only a few footsteps away. Just do it!!!


----------



## Jericurl (May 17, 2016)

JohnT said:


> An operation like this could be only a few footsteps away. Just do it!!!



We only have a few wine drinkers in our family.
It would be worth it to research and find out how many vines I would need for about 6-10 gallons per year.
I can see that being a lot of fun and a neat family event.


----------



## JohnT (May 17, 2016)

Jericurl said:


> We only have a few wine drinkers in our family.
> It would be worth it to research and find out how many vines I would need for about 6-10 gallons per year.
> I can see that being a lot of fun and a neat family event.


 

I am not a grape grower, so others may have more experienced advice, but in theory..... 

There are a lot of variables (type of grape, growing environment, age of the vine, health of the vine, etc) but a good "rule of thumb" is that a vine should produce at least 7 pounds of grapes per vine. 

So, for 6 to 10 gallons of wine, you will need 81 to 135 pounds of grapes.

so, for 5 to 10 gallons of wine, you will need to plant between 12 to 20 vines.


----------



## scram (May 17, 2016)

I live in jersey... Never been to Gino's but know people who are pleased with them and deal with them at least annually... One of these days I'll spread my wings and leave the kit nest


----------



## JohnT (May 18, 2016)

*Update*

Fermentation took hold! Last night, I had the tell-tale raft (or cap) with that wonderful sound of snap, crackle, and pop! The must is now at 71 degrees.

I had bought double the yeast I needed. I usually do this to make sure I have the yeast on hand in case the first pitch does not take hold. Glad to see the first inoculation of yeast did take hold so no need to pitch more yeast! 

My MLB arrives today, ready to pitch once alcoholic fermentation nears its end.


Here is the latest pic


----------



## scram (May 18, 2016)

That looks awesome... I have to get learned up on this


----------



## JohnT (May 19, 2016)

My little yeasties are really gripping it and ripping it. 

Last night, at punch down, the temp was up to 71 degrees and brix at 20.5. 

This morning, the temp has spiked to 81 degrees. I lowered the heat in the winery since now the must will sustain a good fermentation temperature. 

Here is this morning's pic. I took this while I was punching down. Check out the fizzy froth!


----------



## Jericurl (May 19, 2016)

This is looking good!


----------



## dcbrown73 (May 19, 2016)

Wow, that is very cool.


----------



## JohnT (May 19, 2016)

dcbrown73 said:


> Wow, that is very cool.


 
Thanks David. What is even cooler is that if you put your hand about an inch above the grapes, you can actually feel the heat rising off of the cap.

I never get tires of this!


----------



## dcbrown73 (May 19, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Thanks David. What is even cooler is that if you put your hand about an inch above the grapes, *you can actually feel the heat rising off of the cap.*
> 
> I never get tires of this!



Angry yeasties.


----------



## BlueStimulator (May 19, 2016)

What a great thread keep it going


----------



## JohnT (May 20, 2016)

At last night's punch down (I do one in the morning and one in the afternoon) the temp was up to 91.5 degrees. Brix was down to 10%. 

This morning, the temp was still at 91 degrees and fermentation is still very active. 

I will check the brix again at tonight's punch down. I plan to also take a PH reading to be sure that I and above the limit for my MLB (which arrived yesterday).


----------



## dcbrown73 (May 20, 2016)

JohnT said:


> At last night's punch down (I do one in the morning and one in the afternoon) the temp was up to 91.5 degrees. Brix was down to 10%.
> 
> This morning, the temp was still at 91 degrees and fermentation is still very active.
> 
> I will check the brix again at tonight's punch down. I plan to also take a PH reading to be sure that I and above the limit for my MLB (which arrived yesterday).



Is there anything you can do about the temperature or is it sitting at 91F okay?


----------



## JohnT (May 20, 2016)

I actually want 90+ degrees. I am looking to "burn off the fruit".

to cool I have frozen plastic water bottles that I can chuck in before I punch down.

tonights punch down had the temp at 90 degrees and down to 3 brix.

color and aroma are outstanding! This is gonna be a good one!


----------



## JohnT (May 20, 2016)

even with just 3 brix remaining, fermentation is still going strong. I took this pic just after punch down. see how the co2 blanket still forms a bulge on the plastic cover!


----------



## ceeaton (May 20, 2016)

JohnT said:


> I actually want 90+ degrees. I am looking to "burn off the fruit".
> 
> to cool I have frozen plastic water bottles that I can chuck in before I punch down.
> 
> ...



You made me go investigate a few articles on higher temperatures with red wines. Seems that each and every commercial wine maker has reasons for either lower or higher temperatures. One thing I did notice is that they usually only maintain the higher temperatures (in the 90's) until they hit 15 brix, is there a reason to keep it high later? Most seemed to use the idea that too many harsh phenols would be extracted in the presence of higher alcohol levels with the higher temperatures.

Just curious, always love to learn new things since I'm so new to this. And if it works well for you, that is reason enough!


----------



## JohnT (May 23, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> You made me go investigate a few articles on higher temperatures with red wines. Seems that each and every commercial wine maker has reasons for either lower or higher temperatures. One thing I did notice is that they usually only maintain the higher temperatures (in the 90's) until they hit 15 brix, is there a reason to keep it high later? Most seemed to use the idea that too many harsh phenols would be extracted in the presence of higher alcohol levels with the higher temperatures.
> 
> Just curious, always love to learn new things since I'm so new to this. And if it works well for you, that is reason enough!


 
I have a number of reasons for this. First, having a hot fermentation will extract much more color and body from the skins. My favorite wines are big, bold, dark, soft reds. Having a higher temp aids in extraction during that maceration process.

I also believe that having a higher temp helps to prevent stalled fermentations. Higher temps mean higher metabolism. Higher metabolism means that the yeast is less likely to go dormant (especially toward the end). I have never really researched this as a benefit, but I think that this just stands to reason. In 25 years, I have had only one stalled fermentation and that was due to having a abnormally high brix and poor math on my part.

If you consider 85 degrees as a targeted temperature peak, then a peak of 91 degrees is only 6 degrees warmer. Is that worth the effort of adjustment? It very well may, but I prefer to not play too much with the temp unless I really need to. 

Another reason is more selfish. I need to stick to a schedule of when to press. I have a day job and pressing is a whole day affair. My family also works so all of this activity has to be kept to the weekends. I really want to press when fermentation is mostly complete (much like others may not want to rack to the secondary too early). Higher temps means faster ferment which means fermentation is more complete on press day.

I have to be honest. I love the results that I get. I know that phenols are a risk, but so far they have not been a problem. I feel that the extended extraction is well worth the risk. 

This is a great topic and I hope that others will chime in on this subject.


----------



## JohnT (May 23, 2016)

*Presing!*

This weekend was all about pressing…

On Saturday, I did my final punch down. The temp had fallen to 80 degrees and the brix was down to 1%.I tested the PH and got a measurement of 3.33.This is a little low, but considering that the wine was actively fermenting and I also plan to undergo MLF, I would expect the PH to rise a bit.

Once the wine was punched down, I turned my attention to equipment prep. I thoroughly cleaned or scrubbed the press, hoses, pump, buckets, strainers, and tank.By the end of the evening, I had everything all set and ready to press on Sunday. 

On Sunday, we started pressing at 10am with my two brothers and my Godson. Our method for pressing is to first skim off the cap and immediately send that to the press.By doing this first, while the cap is on top of the free run juice, we do less bending down and our backs like that a lot.

Once the cap is off of the free run juice, I use a column strainer (a 4 foot length of 4 inch pvc pipe that I have drilled “like-a-ga-jillion” holes to strain the free run juice to ensure that nothing too big is sent through the pump. The strainer sits inside the fermenter and the pump intake sits inside the strainer.This system works very well. 

Over at the press, we applied very little pressure over 2 hours and ended up with about 373 liters. Of course this yield will drop during the racking process, but I am very happy with the final volume. 

Once most of the equipment was cleaned and put away, we gathered at the press to watch the wine trickle. We normally taste the wine (or the pressings) as it comes off of the press.This is to check for bitterness and sharpness (in which case we would not add further pressings to our free run juice).I am lucky enough to have a press with a pressure gauge.I keep an eye on this and when the skins are retaining pressure over time, I know we are near the end.Normally I will apply no more than 25 bars (360 psi) before calling it quits.

WOW! I am blow away.This wine was amazing!Softer than you might expect in a 1 week old wine.The wine was so good, in fact, that we decided to up the pressure to 300 bars (4351 psi) to get another half gallon of wine that we could have with dinner.This wine was highly drinkable straight out of the press and with only 1 week of age!I am very happy!

Finally, we broke down the press and did our final round of cleaning. I inoculated the wine with Vinaflora Oenos MLB and lidded up the tank.Once that was over with, we went out to the deck for some grilled London broil.All said and done, pressing took 5 hours.


----------



## dcbrown73 (May 23, 2016)

That's funny. I'm excited about your wine hah. One day I need to sneak down to NJ and hopefully you will let me try it.


----------



## JohnT (May 23, 2016)

*Press pictures.*

Pic 1 - cap being sent into the press
Pic 2 - The cap pretty much filled the press
Pic 3 - Good color extraction.. Taste was amazing for such a young wine.
Pic 4 - Applying a LOT of pressure so we could have some with dinner. Note the slow stream. We ended up compressing the skins down to about 18 inches. So much pressure that we were wondering if time was moving faster inside the press. Perhaps we should name the press "singularity".. lol
Pic 5 - we ended up with a good size jug...


----------



## Boatboy24 (May 23, 2016)

Really nice color!


----------



## Steve_M (May 23, 2016)

Love that purple color!

Steve


----------



## eightysixCJ (May 23, 2016)

Very nice John! Thanks for sharing.

Tom


----------



## ceeaton (May 23, 2016)

Amazing an 85/15 Cab/Merlot mix would be that soft already! Thanks for sharing the pictures, I just can't fathom 300L+ of wine at one time. I know, think big...


----------



## Johny99 (May 23, 2016)

A great thread. I've generally gone for cooler ferments for my reds. That is what my favorite local winery does. I do love a big bold over extracted cab, but at 58 I'm too impatient to wait too long for it to age. Very impressive that you liked it enough now to drunk a "young wine". One of my reasons for a cooler ferment, ~80-85F, is the same as yours, day job and me pressing crew are weekend volunteers. I can play with temperature to slow it down to try for 0 or just negative by pressing day. Our fall nights are cool so I can do that by adjusting windows in the fermenration room. What kind of press do you have? Mine is a #35 basket, I'd love to press 375l in 5 hours or so


----------



## NCWC (May 24, 2016)

"in true Hungarian tradition"
I am Hungarian too! Szabo here
I hope you added a ton of paprika to the sauce my Italian Girl Friend hates when I do that
Our tradition is szalonna 

Looks like you guys had a great time
Cheers!


----------



## JohnT (May 24, 2016)

Johny99 said:


> What kind of press do you have? Mine is a #35 basket, I'd love to press 375l in 5 hours or so


 
I honestly do not know the exact size number. It did take all of the skins in a single load. My guess is that capacity of the basket is about 40 or 45 gallons. That would make it about a #55. 

It weighs somewhere around 500 pounds. It is hydraulic with a pressure requlator cut off which means that we can "set it and forget it". It was expensive, but I just think of the labor and trouble it has saved me over the last 15 years or so.


----------



## JohnT (May 24, 2016)

NCWC said:


> "in true Hungarian tradition"
> I am Hungarian too! Szabo here
> I hope you added a ton of paprika to the sauce my Italian Girl Friend hates when I do that
> Our tradition is szalonna
> ...


 
Egészségedre my friend! 

Actually, that was a bit of a joke. Normally we go the traditional Hungarian route when it comes to a wine making meal. I had to cut corners this time and make something fast. 

In two weeks, we are beginning bottling. My brother has promised to bring chicken paprikash and I promised to make a kaposztsalata (cabbage salad) and a nice be batch of nokedli (pasta dumplings) to go with it. 

No doubt we will eat better in two weeks, but you gave me a great idea! Hungarian goulash lasagna... sounds delicious..


----------



## NCWC (May 24, 2016)

Talking about chicken paprikash here is the GF with her special batch at one of our bottling parties. There was like a teaspoon left.


----------



## JohnT (May 24, 2016)

Wish I could give you 5 "likes" for that one. The paprikash looks almost as beautiful as you GF!


----------



## JohnT (May 24, 2016)

NCWC said:


> Our tradition is szalonna


 
oops, I missed this line... 


szalonna!!!!! OMG!!!! 

For the others, I will explain... 

  *BACON BREAD* 

This is exceptional smoked and flavorful Hungarian bacon. 

This bacon is roasted and bread is used to soak up the fat once it renders. We go a little further and then grill the bread after is has been smeared with the fat.

We then take dices of the bacon meat, diced cucumbers, onions, peppers (both sweet and hot), and tomatoes make a sandwich. 

We also make sure to have a bottle of palinka (Hungarian moonshine which is now legally sold and available in the USA) to wash it down!

I know what everybody is thinking.. YUK! 

All I can say is don't knock it until you try it!!! We usually only have this once a year (when the garden tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers are ready) and it is one thing I look forward to every summer.. The crunch of the bread, the coolness and flavor of the vegetables, the saltiness of the bacon, all washed down with a sip of Hungarian palinka!!! Man, what a treat! I am usually good for at least 3! 


NCWC: Please let me know if we are missing a step here. This is the way my father always did it.


----------



## Steve_M (May 24, 2016)

JohnT said:


> oops, I missed this line...
> 
> 
> szalonna!!!!! OMG!!!!
> ...



I'll have what he's having!

Steve


----------



## NCWC (May 25, 2016)

"This is exceptional smoked and flavorful Hungarian bacon. "

The only difference is we did open face, we'd drip the grease onto the "RYE bread" only please, and it was so hot it toasted the bread right there, add toppings and of course sprinkle with salt.

The trouble is finding a good FAT piece of the pork
I was raised on this cant wait for it again


----------



## JohnT (May 25, 2016)

Yup, always good rye bread. The stuff you get at the bakery counter, not that garbage sitting beside the Wonder Bread.. 

We have a Hungarian butcher that is not very easy to get to. I run there a couple of times a year. They have proper bacon and, best of all, REAL HUNGARIAN KIELBASA. Hungarian kielbasa is NOT your average hillshire farms. It is hard, dense, and smokey. They have both sweet and spicey. 

I love to take real Hungarian kielbasa, slice it into "coins" which are placed on small pieces of rye bread and broiled. The fat is rendered and soaked up by the bread. The perfect hors d'oeuvre!!!!


----------



## NCWC (May 25, 2016)

I need to make some Tokaji Aszu - 6 puttonyos


----------



## JohnT (May 25, 2016)

NCWC said:


> I need to make some Tokaji Aszu - 6 puttonyos


 
A little sweet for me. I would go with a nice kékfrankos.


----------



## ColemanM (May 25, 2016)

Hey!! I resemble that comment! [emoji12] my company (brownberry/orowheat/Thomas'/entenmanns) was bought out by Bimbo bakeries from Mexico and they in turn bought beefsteak brand from the then bankrupt wonder and now I sell it [emoji35]. We used to be PREMIUM!!


----------



## Kraffty (May 25, 2016)

Another of my Sophomoric enjoyments....."He said Bimbo..."


----------



## JohnT (May 25, 2016)

ColemanM said:


> Hey!! I resemble that comment! [emoji12] my company (brownberry/orowheat/Thomas'/entenmanns) was bought out by Bimbo bakeries from Mexico and they in turn bought beefsteak brand from the then bankrupt wonder and now I sell it [emoji35]. We used to be PREMIUM!!


 

Sorry, but there is no comparing to the taste and texture of real bakery made rye. beefsteak brand simply will not cut it in the NYC area.


----------



## JohnT (Jun 6, 2016)

After bottling on Saturday, my brother and I decided to taste the new Chilean wine...

*OMG!!! H2S*

So, after a quick splash racking, we did a bench trial and decided that a 75 ml treatment of .1% cuso4 was in order. I sampled it last night and all is good. Smells and tastes great!


----------



## Boatboy24 (Jun 6, 2016)

JohnT said:


> After bottling on Saturday, my brother and I decided to taste the new Chilean wine...
> 
> *OMG!!! H2S*
> 
> So, after a quick splash racking, we did a bench trial and decided that a 75 ml treatment of .1% cuso4 was in order. I sampled it last night and all is good. Smells and tastes great!



I sampled my chileans last night, and they are all [email protected]  Sour, bitter, dirty dishwater.


----------



## Kraffty (Jun 6, 2016)

Come on Boatboy, don't sugar coat it, say what you mean....
Mike


----------



## JohnT (Jun 6, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> I sampled my chileans last night, and they are all [email protected]  Sour, bitter, dirty dishwater.


 
Oh man.. sorry to hear that BB! What do you think went wrong??


----------



## Boatboy24 (Jun 6, 2016)

JohnT said:


> Oh man.. sorry to hear that BB! What do you think went wrong??



No clue at this point. They were harsh at press, but I attributed that to them just being green. MLF has been going on about 4 weeks now and I'm not seeing any improvement. I'm not giving up this early, but I actually thought to myself last night "I might have to dump 28 gallons of wine.".


----------



## ceeaton (Jun 6, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> No clue at this point. They were harsh at press, but I attributed that to them just being green. MLF has been going on about 4 weeks now and I'm not seeing any improvement. I'm not giving up this early, but I actually thought to myself last night "I might have to dump 28 gallons of wine.".



I forgot what you ordered? Have you ever had this experience from the grapes you got from Harford? My Pinot Noir and Pinot Grigio(s) seem very much like last years wines, but then that is all the history I have to go on.

Aging tannins will help those "green" flavors, just make sure you let us know what you try (I need to further my education, sorry it is on your mishap).


----------



## Boatboy24 (Jun 7, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> I forgot what you ordered? Have you ever had this experience from the grapes you got from Harford? My Pinot Noir and Pinot Grigio(s) seem very much like last years wines, but then that is all the history I have to go on.
> 
> Aging tannins will help those "green" flavors, just make sure you let us know what you try (I need to further my education, sorry it is on your mishap).



Syrah, Merlot, Cab Sauv, and Carmenere.


----------



## jswordy (Jun 7, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> No clue at this point. They were harsh at press, but I attributed that to them just being green. MLF has been going on about 4 weeks now and I'm not seeing any improvement. I'm not giving up this early, but I actually thought to myself last night "I might have to dump 28 gallons of wine.".




EEEW!





^^^^^ Did you make this face? I mean, before you cussed?

That sucks. Hope something good happens instead of dumping it.


----------



## Johnd (Jun 7, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Syrah, Merlot, Cab Sauv, and Carmenere.



Well that's really disappointing, my frozen must buckets (2 cab and 2 malbec) shipped out yesterday and will be here tomorrow.


----------



## JohnT (Jun 7, 2016)

I did a 90/10 field blend of Cab/Merlot and feel that the grapes were spectacular. I did pick them up later in the season, so this might explain why your grapes were under ripe. 

Man, that sucks especially considering that Chilean grapes are so expensive. 

Here is a question.. Was the sugar levels of the grapes rather low? One thing I do is take a sampling and check the brix using a light refractometer before I purchase them.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Jun 7, 2016)

JohnT said:


> I did a 90/10 field blend of Cab/Merlot and feel that the grapes were spectacular. I did pick them up later in the season, so this might explain why your grapes were under ripe.
> 
> Man, that sucks especially considering that Chilean grapes are so expensive.
> 
> Here is a question.. Was the sugar levels of the grapes rather low? One thing I do is take a sampling and check the brix using a light refractometer before I purchase them.



All 4 were between SG 1.084 and 1.088 - a little low, IMHO, but I wouldn't say under ripe. Those values were converted from Brix, which for some reason, I don't have saved. They were a little early this year, by a week or two. But I think that was the case across the board. 

pH values were:

Merlot: 3.45
Syrah: 3.68
Carm: 3.7
Cab: 3.44

Nothing alarming in any of the numbers that I saw.


----------



## ceeaton (Jun 7, 2016)

Boatboy24 said:


> Syrah, Merlot, Cab Sauv, and Carmenere.



Any chance prolonged aging (I'm thinking barrel time here) would help them out? Just taking a stab at it. Maybe you don't want that dirty dish water flavor getting into the wood of your barrels...

I feel bad and it's not even my wine.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Jun 8, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Any chance prolonged aging (I'm thinking barrel time here) would help them out? Just taking a stab at it. Maybe you don't want that dirty dish water flavor getting into the wood of your barrels...
> 
> I feel bad and it's not even my wine.



Like I said: I'm not giving up yet. Wine can go through certain 'funks'. It could be I was just down there with my thief on a bad day/week. They were tasting fine during primary.


----------



## derekjames100 (Jul 5, 2016)

It's really important to have a sophisticated nutrient schedule and to choose your yeast wisely when using Chilean


----------



## JohnT (Jul 6, 2016)

Just tasted the Chilean over the weekend. 

Happy to say that I nipped that H2S issue in the Bud! We are back to being simply delicious! 

Next weekend, I am planning to rack it and apply my first oak treatment (XOV med toast mini-staves) 

This one turned out great.


----------



## derekjames100 (Jul 6, 2016)

What are your copper levels?


----------



## JohnT (Jul 11, 2016)

derekjames100 said:


> What are your copper levels?


 
I did some bench trials and found that a 3ppm dose of copper was needed. 
I settled on adding 75 ml of 1% copper sulfate solution which (if my math is correct) should give me a 2.4ppm dose of copper over my 300 liters.


----------



## derekjames100 (Jul 11, 2016)

JohnT said:


> I did some bench trials and found that a 3ppm dose of copper was needed.
> I settled on adding 75 ml of 1% copper sulfate solution which (if my math is correct) should give me a 2.4ppm dose of copper over my 300 liters.


 

Nice. That's a very advanced technique. Just curious, why would you try this before reduless?


----------



## JohnT (Jul 12, 2016)

derekjames100 said:


> Nice. That's a very advanced technique. Just curious, why would you try this before reduless?


 
I had the copper sulfate on hand and wanted to treat the problem immediately. 

Redueless would have been my preference. I really should have some in stock.


----------



## Tnuscan (Aug 9, 2016)

This may be a silly question... have you had any difficulty with MLF on your Chilean grapes.


----------



## JohnT (Aug 9, 2016)

None for me. 

Although I do not do a paper-test, I do use my tongue. I can definitely get the tell-tale signs of butteryness and smoothness..


----------



## cmason1957 (Aug 16, 2016)

abood said:


> Hello mr John I want to make moonshine but I can't find corn meal and I want to know if it's crushed corn or what can u help????



You won't find anyone in here willing to help you make anything distilled. It is illegal in America and we don't allow it at all.


----------



## mennyg19 (Aug 17, 2016)

Besides for the fact that if your that new to moonshine that you dont know if it's crushed corn or whatever, you'll probably end up blowing up your house
I actually thought about doing it once. Besides for the blow-up factor, its not easy to make palatable moonshine. Shinin' hasn't benefited from the same scientific breakthroughs like winemaking has. Most amateurs end up with rubbing alcohol. Also, if you don't really know what your doing, you can go blind and others who drink the shine can also. Its a LOT less risky to make wine


----------



## JohnT (Aug 17, 2016)

I missed that post about moonshine.. 

Let me ask you this.. Why waste you time and money on hard stuff that might not be safe and will (in all likelihood) taste like turpentine?? 

Making a decent beer or wine is a skill, but you would be surprised at just how much success you can have with just a little bit of knowledge. 

You also have the peace of mind knowing that you are not breaking the law.


----------



## JohnT (Aug 29, 2016)

Transferred the Chilean into the barrel yesterday. 

I am using a new 225 liter barrel that has been filled with water for a week. I drained the barrel, Treated it with k-meta, then filled it. 

I ended up filling the barrel, a 54 liter demijohn, and about 4 gallons in smaller "top-off" jugs. 

I did some sampling and have to say that this one is turning out to be pretty good. 

Here is a pic of the empty tank once cleaned (not really sure why I took that one) and a pic of the demi (front) and barrel (back).


----------

