# Muscadine wine- experiment



## s.arkvinomaker (Nov 27, 2007)

Wade suggested I share this experiment with everyone because he thought it might be helpful to others. My goal in this recipe is to achieve the most fruit forward Muscadine wineI can come up with. I have three separate batches of White Muscadine which are actually "bronze". As to the actual name of the variety I don't know but I could find out though. All three are made from the same variety. I bought them at a vinyard in Altus AR . The winery is Post Winery. They make the best Muscadine wine in the world in my opinion. Their Muscadine wine is what I want mine to grow up to be!




I bought a flat of grapes which ended weighing 80#'s.
My first wine is a five gal. batch of pure juice which I pressed myself.
Hereare my recipes 


(experimental) White Muscadine #1 Pure Juice


started 9-14-2007 SG 1.096 PA 13% 5 gal. batch
**I don't test acid. I go by taste.


4.75 Gal. Musacadine Juice from 65# grapes (15.1 brix before sweeting)
1 qt. Spring Water
5 tsp Yeast nutrient
1 Mantrachet Red Yeast
2 1/2 tsp Pectic Enzyme
1# Raisins (white)
7 1/2# sugar
5/8 tsp Potasium Metabisulfite
1 1/4 tsp Potassium Sorbate


Put juice in primary bucket dissolved yeast nutrient and pectic enzyme in cup of water. Added combination to juice. Brought remainig water to a boil
and added sugar to dissolve. Added to primary. Added Potassium Metabisulfite to primary. Covered and let set 24 hours. Pitched yeast by sprinkling on top. Must has an intense Muscadine flavor at this point.


**I did not add any grape skins from the Muscadines. I added raisins expecting to get the tannins from them. Also seeing how this will effect color and clarity.


racked &amp; moved to secondary - 9-27-2007 SG 1.01


At this time 11-27-2007 very little sediment about 1/8". One advantage of using pure juice. Wine has a nice straw color and rather clear already. I will bulk age one year racking every so often.




(experimental) White Muscadine #2


started 9-14-2007 SG 1.085 PA 11% 3 gal batch No acid test


15# Muscadines (crushed) and skins
3 gal Spring water
3 tsp yeast nutrient
1 1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
9# sugar
2 tspPotassium bicarbonate (to reduce acid)
2 cans Welches Frozen Niagra concentrate
3/8 tsp Potassium metabisulfite
3/4 tsp Potassium Sorbate
1Mantrachet yeast




poured 2 1/2 gal. water in primary. Poured muscadines in straining bag and added to primary. Dissolved yeast nutrient, pectic enzyme and potassium bicarbonate in cup of water. Added to must. Brought remaining water to boil and dissolved sugar. Added to must. Added Niagra concentrate. Covered and let set 24 hours. Pitched yeast by sprinkling on top. muscadine flavor is there but not quite as intense as first. Color a light straw.
*** I added potassium bicarbonate because I used the skins and I suspect will be more acidic.


racked and moved to secondary 9-27-2007 sg 1.015


At this time 11-27-2007 there is about 1/2" of sediment and the wine has turned a bronze color but pretty clear.




(experimental) White Muscadine #3 steamed


started 11-12-2007 SG 1.09 PA 12% 1 gal. batch no acid test


5# Muscadines (extracted 8 cups juice steaming)
skins from 2# of muscadines
1/2 gal spring water
1 tsp yeast nutrient
2 3/4# sugar
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1/8 tsp Potassium Metabisulfite
1/2 packet Mantrachet yeast
4 oz. Welches Frozen Niagra concentrate


Added 2c. water to pressure cooker and steamed crushed fruit. Combined
yeast nutrient and pectic enzyme in a cup of water. Added to primary.
Dissolved sugar in boiling water and added to primary. Added meta and 
Welches concentrate. Place grape skins in nylon straining bag and added to must. 


** Flavor and smell almost as intense as the all juice batch. Very pleased so far of the results of steaming.


racked and moved to secondary 11-20-2007 SG 1.01


At this time 11-27-2007 the must has about 3/8" sediment and is cloudy.


Because of some of the variations of the recipes there will be some differences in the end results. I was trying to anticipate the finished product and changed the recipe to adjust for the skins in wine# 2 and #3. In wine #2 I added the bicarbonate to adjust some of the acid I suspect
will come from the skins. This will have more tannins also. In wine 3 I cut back on the % of skins in relation to the total amount of actual grapes used trying another way to reduce acid and tannins. I may be wrong about my ideas about the acid but hey this is how I learn. Trial and error.
I will keep you posted.


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## Waldo (Nov 28, 2007)

David, how does the acidity of the Bronze muscadine compare with the black varities? If even close I would think batch one is going to require some serious adjustment. On batch 2did you use the bicarbonate during fermentation? If so, how did it work and do you plan on cold stabilizing?


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## s.arkvinomaker (Nov 28, 2007)

Hi Waldo,
Have you tried any of Post's muscadines wines? The bronzemake a light straw color wine. To my taste it has the most intensemuscadine flavor of the three they make. They make a red also that is good but they also make a blush they have blended the two together with. It is smoother but with the intense flavor of the white. That's about the only
way I know to tell you and I'm not sure I answered your question. When its all said and done I was going to let you try them and brainstorm with you. As to cold stabilization I'm in uncharted territory. I was hoping not 
to have to. I'm hoping that time will help because I bulk age a year in the carboy.


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## bj4271 (Nov 28, 2007)

I bought muscadine wine from a half dozen wineries last year to compare with how mine was coming out. I'm pretty sure Post was one of them, but most were from Louisiana wineries. Most of them didn't even havethat very distinctive"muscadine" flavor. 


None came close to the muscadine flavor I get when I do 1 gal batches (nothing but yeast, 5.5 cups musc, 5 cups sugar, water) and they taste/smell like fresh muscadine. The simpler the batch is, the more muscadine flavor comes through, in my opinion.


When I make larger batches, even though I use a lot of muscadine (36# per 6 galbatch). the larger batch I make, the less fruit forward they are. I think all the various chemicals (acids, enzymes, fining agents, sulfites, etc.) mask much of the flavor


I'd compare my muscadine (from 6 gal batch) to Waldo's for muscadine flavor; though mine isn't as "finished" a product, both have much more "muscadine" flavor than any winery product I've sampled.


I just had a thought! Yes, it's rare.



The muscadine I use for 1 gal batches are from wild vines on my property. The ones I use for the larger batches are from a vinery where I get the owner to pick them for me. Although both are from black varieties, (all I use) the ones I get on the property have all fallen from the vine &amp; are at peak ripeness. I don't know about the ones from the vinery, I don't pick them.


Home wine making - so many possibllitites!


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## Wade E (Nov 28, 2007)

Great job s.arkvin, I think everyone can learn from this including you.


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## s.arkvinomaker (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks Wade,
The third wine will help me decide if I want to invest in a juice extractor.


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## smurfe (Nov 29, 2007)

bj4271 said:


> I just had a thought! Yes, it's rare.
> 
> 
> 
> The muscadine I use for 1 gal batches are from wild vines on my property. The ones I use for the larger batches are from a vinery where I get the owner to pick them for me. Although both are from black varieties, (all I use) the ones I get on the property have all fallen from the vine &amp; are at peak ripeness. I don't know about the ones from the vinery, I don't pick them.




Bruce, you hit the nail on the head. The ripe/mature fruit will have a more intense flavor. Kind of goes along with the fresh vs. frozen fruit thing. For example, I will only use frozen blueberries for wine as they were picked riper and flash frozen. Fresh fruits in the markets are picked much sooner to make it to the fruit stand. I have yet to find any "flavorful" fresh blueberries (or strawberrieseither)here (at the Farmer's Markets)but bought some great frozen berries in the grocery case.


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## Hoss (Nov 29, 2007)

when I get my 7 gallons of muscadines, they are picked ripe. I pick them up in a couple of cardboard boxes lined with newspapers. I let them sit in the boxes for about 3 days before I juice them. It drastically intensifies the flavor. They also soften and "juice" better. I leave them at room temperature, never refrigerate them. (side note....they do attract lots of yellow jackets and bees so be careful about the leaving the door open...a yellow jacket can find a muscadine from a mile away)


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## smurfe (Nov 29, 2007)

Hoss, if you freeze those Muscadines, they will juice even better. Freezing them will break down the cell walls and let the juice flow. I don't know anyone around here that don't freeze them first.Just about any fruit juices better after frozen.


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## Hoss (Nov 29, 2007)

really? that's interesting. I'll have to give that a try. Any preparation or anything special, or just freeze them?


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## Wade E (Nov 29, 2007)

Hoss, I used some crabapples to make a wine out of and they were like rocks even though they were very sweet and tart. I froze them and they were not mush afterwards but I was able to crush them with my hands in the fermenting bag and I would not have been able to do this without freezing them.


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## s.arkvinomaker (Nov 29, 2007)

I freeze all my fruits I buy for the very reason Smurfe said. Problem is I can't get my supply to go down because I won't quit buying. I've found you have to be an opportunist when it comes to fruit. If you find a fruit that has fantastic flavor you better grab it because its you snooze you lose. I'm picky about what I buy though. Here in Arkansas we have very good resouses for fruit between the you pick em orchards and farmers markets. If I can just find some good vinyards for the Cabs and such I would be set.


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## grizzlyi99 (Dec 1, 2007)

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## jobe05 (Dec 1, 2007)

Grizzly: THANK YOU!!!!!

I said the same thing. I have had people try to sell me bronze muscadines that taste exactly like a scuppernong, but they insist that they are muscadines.

Perhaps there is such a thing, but to me, if it's Bronze/Green and taste like a scuppernong, it's a scuppernong!


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## s.arkvinomaker (Dec 1, 2007)

I agree Smurfe I freeze all my fruit even the fruit I pick myself at the you-pickem ordhards.


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## s.arkvinomaker (Dec 1, 2007)

Yea that too!


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## Hoss (Dec 1, 2007)

a scuppernong and a muscadine are one and the same...just a different name for the same grape. scuppernong is usually associated with the white or golden, or bronze variety.


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## bj4271 (Dec 3, 2007)

Hoss,


As far as prep before freezing, just get out any leaves, pine straw, bits of vine, stems, etc. Easier now than after thawing.


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## s.arkvinomaker (Dec 3, 2007)

Thanks Hoss I wanted to say that but wasn't positive of it.


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## WoodTurner (Dec 3, 2007)

I love Muscadine wine. I always buy from the Post or Wiedeker family when I visit Arkansas. I was wondering if the acidity is a problem? I've eaten raw muscadines and they can actually start to burn my lips.


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## s.arkvinomaker (Dec 4, 2007)

Hi there Woodturner,
Yes muscadines can be very acidic. Next time you are by the winery's in Altus stop by the newer winery called Chateau D'Arc. they make a muscadine quite different from the other two. It is pretty good but a little pricey. Bethel winery around the corner from Post also makes muscadine and a nice collection of fruit wines also. I think they oak theirs. Bethel makes a Strawberry wine that is just like taking a bite out of a fresh strawberry. I like their Blueberry wine also. Post makes the best muscadine wine of all in my opinion and Weiderker a close second.


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## WoodTurner (Dec 5, 2007)

When I took the Post tour they are related by family to the Wiedeker folks from way back. I love that Muscadine Red - reminds of coughmedicine almost as a kid but of course it is better. I bought 2 cases while there and a few extra of the Vignoles which is very hard to find anywhere else. That one is excellent also.


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## s.arkvinomaker (Dec 14, 2007)

Hi there Woodturner,
Have you ever tried Post's Blush Muscadine? If not not you have to try it.
It is very good and smooth. It screams Muscadine!


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## Jzak (Mar 20, 2008)

If I'm Not mistaken I have had Wiedeker Muscadine Red Before it tasted like rose petals, are we talking about the same thing? I thought he used rose petals to mask over the muscadine taste. Guerra here in Texas makes a muscadine but I think he uses Chocolate syrup when he ferments to darken the color and mask over the muscadine. 
From what it sounds like I need to make a trip to South Arkansas.. whats the name of the wineries that make muscadine and where are they located... I really think I need to go visit a few.
Also too when we talk about muscadine wine are we comonly reffering to them being sweet? Almost every muscadine wine I have ever tried except for my own was Sweet.*Edited by: Jzak *


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## Waldo (Mar 20, 2008)

Why the heck would anyone want to make a Muscadine wine and mask the taste of Muscadine?


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## s.arkvinomaker (Apr 1, 2008)

I agree Wade. It is a very unique wine and a Southern thing! Nothing like it. I have experimented with blending it with other fruits like Strawberry. But I used the Bronze variety to keep the color of the wine from being to dark. It came out a blush. I was trying to see if I could use it as a blending grape. Tasted pretty good.


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