# Is Winemaking my Therapy?



## Ajmassa (Sep 26, 2019)

Does anyone else ever view their winemaking hobby/passion/whatever as therapeutic?
I know for a stonecold fact that it is for me. When working on wine-or anything winemaking related - it centers me sorta, or decompresses the rest of life’s BS. 
Can’t speak for anyone else- but winemaking definitely is something I NEED in my life! Going without it for a long while......it just plain sucks! I haven’t been able to do anything lately. About 100gal worth of 7 diff wines from fall ‘17 and spring/fall 18’. Just sitting. Begging for some TLC. 
And then my old man asked me to hit up the local spot together for him to grab some juice- which was a family tradition since forever. I went but wasn’t planning grabbing anything for myself. 
And you know damn well I walked outta there with at least something! Lol. How could I not? Got home. Cleaned up some gear and was logging down info and just in the zone. During it I just had a sense of...calm. I didn’t realize how much I felt ‘wrong’ until I felt ‘right’ again. I missed it. And I missed all of you!


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## CDrew (Sep 26, 2019)

Welcome back. I hope all is well.

The wine thing in general is interesting, and by being interesting and different from your work life, it's therapeutic.

Bottle some of that wine, drink some of what you bottle. Relax, calm down, and enjoy your therapy.

What are you making 2019?


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## Ajmassa (Sep 26, 2019)

CDrew said:


> Welcome back. I hope all is well.
> 
> The wine thing in general is interesting, and by being interesting and different from your work life, it's therapeutic.
> 
> ...



I know man. Way overdo. Different batches at different status. Some tlc needed. I think got my 2nd dumper too. A sauv blanc juicepail. Maybe. Lol. TBD still

I’m not making much. Hoping to get back on it by spring. Just doing a couple buckets of juice on a whim. Impulse purchase and Underprepared-...as usual  
A cab and barbera. . Might mess around a dump in malo at some weird ass timing as a little experiment. Pretty sure workhorse malo don’t care when. Might even get a successful mlf inoculating the damn press basket! (Reading other threads got me all mlf‘d up!)


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## CDrew (Sep 26, 2019)

I hear you.

The pain, worry and concern some associate with MLF seems overstated. Co-inoculate and done in 2 weeks. Nothing to it.

And, Barbera is on my short list too. I have to see what's available to pick October 5/6. I'm off those days, and want to do a 3rd wine, but really want to pick and make a Barbera this year as a "will go with all foods" food wine.

Last year I did a Petite Sirah as my #3 wine. It's good and tannic, but needs some highly flavored food to balance it out. This year would do the same but will be opportunistic with regards to what's available.

For you, it seems like it's time to bottle the 2017. Hope you do. Good luck!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 26, 2019)

CDrew said:


> I hear you.
> 
> The pain, worry and concern some associate with MLF seems overstated. Co-inoculate and done in 2 weeks. Nothing to it.
> 
> ...



Yep. And the 18’ spring wine. Which is what I’m really looking forward to. It’s a Chilean Malbec 1/2 oaked in new barrel. Gotta blend back with rest and good 2 go. 

How those intellitanks been workin out btw?


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## CDrew (Sep 26, 2019)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> How those intellitanks been workin out btw?



They are good. I have 4, which works well for me. THat's 60 gallons worth. Converting to the sanitary fittings is huge. So easy to move from one to the other for racking and a final time racking uphill to bottle. I may get 2 more. It's a compact and sturdy way to store and move wine. Not to mention how easy it is to sanitize the sanitary fittings.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 27, 2019)

For me it gets more therapeutic the more I learn and become comfortable. In the beginning, although it was fun, it was stressful because there was so much to learn and I didn't know what I didn't know. With all that being said and in an attempt to get a full cellar I do put undo stress on myself. This year in the spring I made Pinot Noir, Cab Sauv, Chenin Blanc and Riesling, interim was a peach and so far this fall Viognier, Petit Manseng, Aliconte and Tannat. Going to pick up Nebbiola and/or Sangiovese tomorrow and next week my Merlot, Touriga and Grenache is coming in. Going to make a red and a rose out of the Grenache. Lastly I have Norton, Cab Franc and Petite Verdot coming as soon as they are ready to harvest. Not at all complaining just have to be diligent with my time management.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 27, 2019)

Wow, Fred, that is quite the list! Your efforts are impressive.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 27, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> Wow, Fred, that is quite the list! Your efforts are impressive.



I’ll say! 18 different batches from spring and fall 19’ And you know Fred gets wild with his yeast splitting batches into multiple ferments- quick math looks like about 1,000 ferments! lol. Probably get a decent buzz just standing out front of Château de Black! [emoji1305]


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 28, 2019)

It is most definitely therapeutic. What's great about it is that it is art AND science. And your methods can lean in one direction or the other, or just go down the middle. In my case, I work with numbers a lot. For me, the creative side of winemaking is my outlet. It's a nice escape.


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## motherofgallons (Sep 28, 2019)

I definitely think it's therapeutic. I love to cook and I have always been artistic so the most fun for me is writing and experimenting with recipes. I also really enjoy tending to living things and the idea that you're cooperating as a team with the yeast, I like both fussing over them and letting them do their thing on their own time. Math has never been my strength, but it is easier if I have a clear practical goal (unlike in grade school), such as sewing or recipe building, so although it's difficult I appreciate the science and the need for attention to detail. I also like that I'm learning practical science through organized experimentation and basic chemistry.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 28, 2019)

Well, I must admit that I find wine_drinking_ more therapeutic than winemaking!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 28, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> It is most definitely therapeutic. What's great about it is that it is art AND science. And your methods can lean in one direction or the other, or just go down the middle. In my case, I work with numbers a lot. For me, the creative side of winemaking is my outlet. It's a nice escape.



YES! 100%. Especially when I’m in my comfort zone.—-And not having to sweat the small stuff and trusting my gut. Making confident decisions that make my wine ‘mine’. 
@motherofgallons nailed the cooking analogy. The kitchen is Heathers lab - no different than my wine area. 

And @sour_grapes— all doctors would agree- it’s a combination of therapy & meds!
Making the wine is the therapy
The wine is the Lexapro [emoji6]


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## sour_grapes (Sep 29, 2019)

I had to google "Lexapro." Interestingly, however, I already knew what "serantonin reuptake inhibitors" were, and why they were important. (We took in a troubled niece many years ago. She is now doing great! )


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## pgentile (Oct 1, 2019)

Therapy on every level for me.


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## porkchopmessiah (Oct 2, 2019)

Yes....that being said, it never fails that as soon as I start the filter or out one drop of titrant in beaker, my wife tells downstairs that I have to do something..


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## Ajmassa (Oct 2, 2019)

porkchopmessiah said:


> Yes....that being said, it never fails that as soon as I start the filter or out one drop of titrant in beaker, my wife tells downstairs that I have to do something..



Ppffsh. Wives got some nerve don’t they?


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## peterseng (Oct 2, 2019)

It definitely is like therapy for me as well. It appeals to both my analytical side and my creative side. In ways it reminds me of my early-life passions. I studied music in school, and chose engineering as my initial college major (first college level trig course and I changed that major to accounting, lol!) and those passions also both include creativity/problem solving and analysis/attention to detail. I get to use both sides of my brain at once, and when I'm done thinking I can drink my wine to help shut my brain off! Best of both worlds!


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## Ajmassa (Oct 2, 2019)

peterseng said:


> It definitely is like therapy for me as well. It appeals to both my analytical side and my creative side. In ways it reminds me of my early-life passions. I studied music in school, and chose engineering as my initial college major (first college level trig course and I changed that major to accounting, lol!) and those passions also both include creativity/problem solving and analysis/attention to detail. I get to use both sides of my brain at once, and when I'm done thinking I can drink my wine to help shut my brain off! Best of both worlds!



Well said. Nice post.


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## peterseng (Oct 2, 2019)

Ajmassa said:


> Well said. Nice post.


Thanks!


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## Johnd (Oct 2, 2019)

Winemaking is therapeutic for me, sometimes I think it causes me to need therapy..........


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## Willija10 (Oct 2, 2019)

CDrew said:


> Welcome back. I hope all is well.
> 
> The wine thing in general is interesting, and by being interesting and different from your work life, it's therapeutic.
> 
> ...


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## Ajmassa (Oct 2, 2019)

Johnd said:


> Winemaking is therapeutic for me, sometimes I think it causes me to need therapy..........



Brother - you speak truth! 

But would bring that upon myself. Never feeling satisfied until [insert unrealistic goal here]- like a fully renovated knocked out wine room, large enough vol to fit 1/2 barrels (so I can buy French), from top AVAs, making high quality wine, w/ perfect #’s , stored in 60°cellar, etc etc. (Wine room & cellar— still in the plan. Always!) 
I would end up ‘micromanaging’ my winemaking. Obsessive nature has pros and cons tho . - for example I think I could write a damn book on MLF now. And vetted the production of juice pales so much I could probably perform a full audit! Ya know, just consumed with being ideal on all fronts. 
Winemaking is much more enjoyable for me when confident in decision making & equipment - and Knowing what’s important but especially what’s NOT as important*


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## Ajmassa (Oct 2, 2019)

New territory = less confident = stress. 
-Acid removal + CS? Hated it. Avoiding like the plague now. 
-Post ferm tannin?- nope! Way too many option and I fear ruining the wine. 
-Bought a Vinmetrica w/ all the bells & whistles a while back. I barely touch it. When I do- all work stops & out comes the manual. Gotta figure it out. Numbers don’t stabilize. Wasting time. Ugh. I quit. Back to work. Back in my groove. In my comfort zone. Life is good. Vinmetrica lives to see another day.


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## CDrew (Oct 2, 2019)

Ajmassa said:


> -Bought a Vinmetrica w/ all the bells & whistles a while back. I barely touch it. When I do- all work stops & out comes the manual. Gotta figure it out. Numbers don’t stabilize. Wasting time. Ugh. I quit. Back to work. Back in my groove. In my comfort zone. Life is good. Vinmetrica lives to see another day.



Man. I was a chemist in a former life, and I avoid most personal wine testing. (Really, I have a degree in Chemistry and and a cert from the American Chemical Society. I have not thought about it in years) I have sent samples twice to Lodi Wine Labs and let them do their $50 magic. In my real life I send stuff to the lab all the time, but I don't do the testing myself. I am considering a Vinmetrica though. I want to measure and know SO2 levels in real time.

I'm thinking going forward of 2 wines per year, about 30 gallons of each and letting Lodi WIne Labs handle the testing. Expensive per gallon but better and cheaper than maintaining my own lab.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 3, 2019)

CDrew said:


> Man. I was a chemist in a former life, and I avoid most personal wine testing. (Really, I have a degree in Chemistry and and a cert from the American Chemical Society. I have not thought about it in years) I have sent samples twice to Lodi Wine Labs and let them do their $50 magic. In my real life I send stuff to the lab all the time, but I don't do the testing myself. I am considering a Vinmetrica though. I want to measure and know SO2 levels in real time.
> 
> I'm thinking going forward of 2 wines per year, about 30 gallons of each and letting Lodi WIne Labs handle the testing. Expensive per gallon but better and cheaper than maintaining my own lab.



You're taking some of the fun out of it by sending your samples to a lab. Plus as you indicated it's nice to be able to take SO2 levels on a fairly regular basis.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 3, 2019)

Johnd said:


> Winemaking is therapeutic for me, sometimes I think it causes me to need therapy..........



Sometimes it (or perhaps the winedrinking part) makes me want to lie down on a couch....


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## ibglowin (Oct 3, 2019)

Some words of caution. If you do too much winemaking therapy at some point you will end up needing an "intervention" of sorts. Case in point. I just spent the last two days emptying out my 8x10 wine shed. Over the years I kept adding more and more empty bottles. Both my own and empty commercial bottles that were of amazing quality and "too good to toss". At some point I completely filled that shed with empty bottles and could not even think about entering it much less getting to anything. I emptied it out completely (case by empty case) and only kept bottles that had been used once by me (peel off label). I think I took over 1000 bottles to the Eco Station for recycling! The winery is clear once again and ready. The shed has about 30 cases of empties that are separated by color and shape. I can get to my C/D, primaries, press and actually walk around.

I had become a wine bottle hoarder!

I am feeling much better now Dave...........

Really I am.........


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## CDrew (Oct 3, 2019)

I'm not opening the pod bay doors for you. "Case in point" is a nice double entendre. 

But I get the dilemma. I had saved and hoarded bottles for 2 years, had friends save bottles, and had 30 cases to bottle up the 2018 vintage. But no more. All new bottles from now on. Label peeling is tedious and in the end, not reasonable. I can see reusing bottles I've already gone through, but I'm just not feeling the desire to peal 20+ cases of bottles for next year.


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## ibglowin (Oct 3, 2019)

I think I had reached the theoretical B-Max (Bottle Max) where I had cleaned up enough bottles that I would never have to clean another but then either friends or I would drink a nice commercial bottle and I would look at it like........

My precious...........


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## cmason1957 (Oct 3, 2019)

I have about 35 cases of empties in the wine making area. More green and blue than clear. But every time I go to a winery, I have to test his day the labels come off and if easy, I have to ask if I can take any used bottles off their hands. My wife calls it an obsession and gets irritated with me.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 3, 2019)

I now have too many bottles saved, as well. i still keep ones that I had de-labeled and for which my labels easily come off, buy all else gets recycled now.


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## Jal5 (Oct 3, 2019)

It’s work to do the bottle prep but I doit a little at a time. One or two cases max then take a break from it.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 3, 2019)

Nope— I saved em for a while. Scattered in boxes all over. And I absolutely HATE cleaning em up. But no more. The hassle wasn’t worth it IMO. 

But just like everything else- whether bottles or testing— ya pick your battles. I look forward to diving into the Vinmetrica soon. 
And I never looked forward to scrubbing bottles [emoji16]


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## Johnd (Oct 4, 2019)

I don’t have a problem with empties, mine’s more of a full bottle issue. After starting winemaking and quickly filling two 200 bottle wine fridges, I had to build a 2,000 bottle cellar. It’s now full, with 30 and 60 gallon barrels full of wine, 3/4 ton of grapes about to ship, and wine club shipments about to drown me in November. 

Hi, my name is John, and I still have a problem.


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## stickman (Oct 4, 2019)

@Johnd you're going to need a third party warehouse!


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## Johnd (Oct 4, 2019)

stickman said:


> @Johnd you're going to need a third party warehouse!



LOL!! Maybe...... I'm really trying to thin down the cellar inhabitants, still have a lot of kit wines that are hitting 3 - 5 years in age, some batches still have 28 or 29 bottles. I've got some folks that I give wine to pretty regularly, and they always return bottles to me, inlaws, the ladies at the barber shop, parents, etc.. Gonna have to start giving away cases me thinks. Have the materials and space to build a couple more small racks, maybe 50 bottles total, so that'll help. Making wine with friends now, so they take some wine away from the bottlings, that helps also, and only making wine once a year at fall harvest. A labor of love.


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## CDrew (Oct 4, 2019)

Johnd said:


> I don’t have a problem with empties, mine’s more of a full bottle issue. After starting winemaking and quickly filling two 200 bottle wine fridges, I had to build a 2,000 bottle cellar. It’s now full, with 30 and 60 gallon barrels full of wine, 3/4 ton of grapes about to ship, and wine club shipments about to drown me in November.
> Hi, my name is John, and I still have a problem.



Great post and cautionary tale. The wine one makes accumulates fast. And then needs to sit around a few more years to mature. And then it takes awhile to drink. I'm buying much less commercial wine, dropping out of wine clubs, and next year plan to cut production just a little. 2018 was 70 gallons, this year will be about 60, and 2020 planning 45. That is, unless I have another space with temp control......

I used to enjoy a cocktail here and there. No more. Gotta drink the wine and make room for more wine.

No problem here, no siree!


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## Cxwgfamily (Oct 5, 2019)

All,
Winemaking is therapy for me at this stage. Although could be moving toward obsession quickly. Although I focus on fruit wines from my state, I find myself making more and more wine from different fruits. Up to about bout 100 gals this year. Planning on more next year. It is amazing how many friends you have when you make drinkable to good wine. 
Cxwgfamily


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 9, 2019)

Johnd said:


> I don’t have a problem with empties, mine’s more of a full bottle issue. After starting winemaking and quickly filling two 200 bottle wine fridges, I had to build a 2,000 bottle cellar. It’s now full, with 30 and 60 gallon barrels full of wine, 3/4 ton of grapes about to ship, and wine club shipments about to drown me in November.
> 
> Hi, my name is John, and I still have a problem.



Ha! If I ever make it to LA, I'll help you clear space for a few bottles. LOL!


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## ibglowin (Oct 9, 2019)

I think I may have seen this movie before myself......


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## Johnd (Oct 9, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> Ha! If I ever make it to LA, I'll help you clear space for a few bottles. LOL!



Come on down!!


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## peterseng (Oct 10, 2019)

My problem isn't too many empties or too many full bottles... my problem seems to be having enough to bottle all the wine, lol! I save the bottles that I drink, but don't get many back from the friends I give wine to, so nearly every batch finds me looking for more bottles...


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## Ajmassa (Oct 10, 2019)

Swung by and helped my dad rack and inoculate ML into his Sangiovese. Testing levels. Explaining things as he’s taking notes. And of course- while sipping on some wine.
Then later did a full cleanup/organize to my wine area. Giving the now neutral barrel a proper sanitize bath. (And still loving my sink. Don’t know I ever lived without it)

- without a doubt- yesterday was therapeutic


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## mainshipfred (Oct 10, 2019)

Ajmassa said:


> Swung by and helped my dad rack and inoculate ML into his Sangiovese. Testing levels. Explaining things as he’s taking notes. And of course- while sipping on some wine.
> Then later did a full cleanup/organize to my wine area. Giving the now neutral barrel a proper sanitize bath. (And still loving my sink. Don’t know I ever lived without it)
> 
> - without a doubt- yesterday was therapeutic
> ...



Sinks are the bomb!


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## Ajmassa (Oct 10, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Sinks are the bomb!



Damn right! I still get a little sense of satisfaction every time I go down there. 

After not even having any water source let alone a proper sink in my wine areas for so long- I actively decided to overcompensate. And in the end- It definitely wasn’t overkill. Just beneficial. Not having a comfortable or ideal work space definitely takes away from the “chill” factor. 
To quote my father, “Work like a gentleman, not like an a**hole!”


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## stickman (Oct 10, 2019)

Pfffssh, yea I'm embarrassed to show what my sink looks like.


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## Ajmassa (Oct 10, 2019)

stickman said:


> Pfffssh, yea I'm embarrassed to show what my sink looks like.



Lol. Some of the more anal members of WMT might sh*t a brick if they saw the typical chaos! 

I enjoy modifying my setup probably just as much as I do making the wine. Not talkin full renovation either. Just basic little necessities I enjoy. Like deciding how many & where to install new lighting — or figuring out the best dehumidifier to buy—or even finding some cool wall mount hygrometer/thermometer/clock. 

The lighting just waiting for a free day. The dehumidifier is top priority at the moment


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 13, 2019)

peterseng said:


> My problem isn't too many empties or too many full bottles... my problem seems to be having enough to bottle all the wine, lol! I save the bottles that I drink, but don't get many back from the friends I give wine to, so nearly every batch finds me looking for more bottles...



Stop giving wine to those that don't return bottles. Give more to those who bring back more bottles than they left with.


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## peterseng (Oct 15, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> Stop giving wine to those that don't return bottles. Give more to those who bring back more bottles than they left with.


Not bad advice... especially about being more generous with those who return bottles! I may be good on bottles for a little while now, though. I found a local home vintner who is now putting his wine in kegs and will be moving later this fall. He had 20 cases of empties to find homes for. I was happy to take them off his hands so he wouldn't have to junk them or move them... I then spent the better part of Sunday afternoon making room for them in the basement


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