# Everclear to fortify a port



## kboroff (Nov 21, 2012)

I made a batch of Dechaunac (sp?) from fresh juice that turned out pretty good but had a flavor that would make a very good port. My friends and I took a small sample and added some raspberry syrup, creme de cocao and a little brandy. After several variations we came up with a good mix. However, the alcohol level at our preferred recipe was well below 20%. After checking the forum, we found many suggestions to use Everclear to raise the ABV. Simple fix we thought because several people stated that it would not change the flavor. Right.
We only added 375ml to 2.5 gal of wine. Now our port has an off aroma and somewhat bitter flavor. Apparently Everclear is not odorless/tasteless or caused an unexpected reaction in our combination. Do you think adding wine conditioner would help? Any other suggestions?


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## Runningwolf (Nov 21, 2012)

NO, do not use wine conditioner (anytime in my opinion). Did you taste the Everclear before adding it? I believe Everclear is a grain alcohol which would add some flavor.

I would not do anything to the wine for at least 6 weeks. The alcohol is making your new Port rather "hot". It will settle down some over time as it blends in. 

My personal advice to you next time would be to find a brandy flavor you like and add that to your wine. Do several small (100 ml) bench trails first and see if you like it and determine what amount is best to add based off your tastings.


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## shoelesst (Nov 22, 2012)

kboroff said:


> I made a batch of Dechaunac (sp?) from fresh juice that turned out pretty good but had a flavor that would make a very good port. My friends and I took a small sample and added some raspberry syrup, creme de cocao and a little brandy. After several variations we came up with a good mix. However, the alcohol level at our preferred recipe was well below 20%. After checking the forum, we found many suggestions to use Everclear to raise the ABV. Simple fix we thought because several people stated that it would not change the flavor. Right.
> We only added 375ml to 2.5 gal of wine. Now our port has an off aroma and somewhat bitter flavor. Apparently Everclear is not odorless/tasteless or caused an unexpected reaction in our combination. Do you think adding wine conditioner would help? Any other suggestions?



I used Everclear when making port and wine conditioner when felt I fermented to far and needed the sweetness. 
When you do the research on how Port is made you realize that real port is not fortified with good brandy. It is fortified with the cheapest high octane alcohol, which happened to be distilled grape skins, otherwise known as brandy, but not aged good brandy.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 22, 2012)

shoelesst said:


> I used Everclear when making port and wine conditioner when felt I fermented to far and needed the sweetness.
> When you do the research on how Port is made you realize that real port is not fortified with good brandy. It is fortified with the cheapest high octane alcohol, which happened to be distilled grape skins, otherwise known as brandy, but not aged good brandy.


 

I also have used everclear, typically I would add distillers charcoal with the everclear for a week prior to using it. That would usually take out most of the odors that come from it (fussils oils ) Back in the day (from what I read) Port was fortified with non cut brandy, which means distilled wine and not dilluted with water,so the abv was similiar to everclear. Not sure how commercially how they do it in now.


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## Turock (Nov 22, 2012)

Would vodka work better for this? You can find 151 Vodka in most stores.


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## Runningwolf (Nov 22, 2012)

shoelesst said:


> I used Everclear when making port and wine conditioner when felt I fermented to far and needed the sweetness.
> When you do the research on how Port is made you realize that real port is not fortified with good brandy. It is fortified with the cheapest high octane alcohol, which happened to be distilled grape skins, otherwise known as brandy, but not aged good brandy.


 
Shoelesst, I have no doubt on anything you said. Do you realize that a lot of port is also made from old wine that has oxidized and added blended with some others. When I was touring wineries I found one winery that did this and it was actually very good. Like all wine there are many varieties and ways of making it.


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## ibglowin (Nov 22, 2012)

I would never add any grain spirit to any wine. The two will never meld IMHO.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Nov 23, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> I would never at any grain spirit to any wine. The two will never meld IMHO.



Ciroc is a vodka distilled from grapes.


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## ibglowin (Nov 23, 2012)

Sounds like a Brandy to me then and not a Vodka by any traditional means. Looks like its made from white grapes only thus the reason they are trying to classify it as something other than a Brandy. I suspect they are trying to cash in on the current premium priced Vodka craze......

Regular Brandy (brown in color) will cut the port wine color when used as a fortifier. Using a clear fortifier would cut the color even more. 

At ~$40 a bottle and only 80 proof you would quickly end up with more money invested in your "Vodka" than in your Port wine as well!


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## ldmack3 (Nov 23, 2012)

I made a CC port kit and added a bottle of 750ml VSOP St. Remy French Brandy. When young it tasted like brandy, after 1 year it is very good. (Can't wait for next year!) The obvious brandy flavor is much subdued. This raised the ABV to about 18.8%. Strong enough for me!


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## ibglowin (Nov 23, 2012)

When you purchase a bottle of Port from a commercial winery and its 19% ABV and deep and dark in color and almost downright "chewy" in texture you can bet they didn't take the cheap and easy route and use grain spirits. If they were to ever use a grain spirit it HAS to be on the label. They are using brandy that has been distilled up to ~150 proof (yes, it can be done but its not cheap).


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## shoelesst (Nov 23, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> When you purchase a bottle of Port from a commercial winery and its 19% ABV and deep and dark in color and almost downright "chewy" in texture you can bet they didn't take the cheap and easy route and use grain spirits. If they were to ever use a grain spirit it HAS to be on the label. They are using brandy that has been distilled up to ~150 proof (yes, it can be done but its not cheap).



When you say brandy is added, it is not brandy that you would buy in the liquor store or drink at you bar, it is high octane distilled spirit that just happens to be distilled grape. It is closer to grapa than brandy. Grain is tasteless and odorless. Water it down and you can call it vodka. The spirits used in port are much closer to grain then they are to the brandy that is regularly consumed.


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## shoelesst (Nov 23, 2012)

Runningwolf said:


> Shoelesst, I have no doubt on anything you said. Do you realize that a lot of port is also made from old wine that has oxidized and added blended with some others. When I was touring wineries I found one winery that did this and it was actually very good. Like all wine there are many varieties and ways of making it.



Yes, Tawny Port is exposed to oxygen as a practice. I am also intrigued at all the different wine making techniques. I wonder how any of else would fair as wine makers if we were transported back to Roman times. Would our techniques be revolutionary or ridiculed. 
Amarone has a very different an interesting technique as well.


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## GreginND (Nov 23, 2012)

I use 190 proof everclear. If I can't get high proof brandy I opt for as pure alcohol as I can get to avoid diluting the port.


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## ibglowin (Nov 23, 2012)

We are gonna have to agree to disagree on that comment....



shoelesst said:


> Grain is tasteless and odorless.


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## spaniel (Nov 25, 2012)

If you got it adjusted how you liked it, then fortified, you should expect a taste change. The alcohol addition threw it out of balance again. Give it some time....a few months at least...and see how it ages. I fortified 6 gallons of black raspberry port and even the same day the taste was just fine...but of course very different than before the alcohol addition.


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## JohnT (Nov 28, 2012)

We make a very limited amount of port each year. 

I agree with all of the above. You want a fortifier that will bring flavor to the party. Even using cheap brandy will still produce a great port. 

BTW... THANK YOU MR PEARSON!


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## GreginND (Nov 28, 2012)

Where can a home winemaker or consumer buy high proof brandy?

My problem is with 40% (80 proof) brandy you would need to add 2 gallons of brandy to a 5 gallon batch of 12% alcohol wine to get to 20% alcohol. That's a lot of dilution.

If you use 95% everclear you need only 0.5 gallons as it's almost pure alcohol.

If you are adding the alcohol earlier in the fermentation with lower alcohol, it's just that much more brandy you would need to add. Closer to 50/50 wine/brandy. At what point is it no longer a port wine?


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## GreginND (Nov 28, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> When you purchase a bottle of Port from a commercial winery and its 19% ABV and deep and dark in color and almost downright "chewy" in texture you can bet they didn't take the cheap and easy route and use grain spirits. If they were to ever use a grain spirit it HAS to be on the label. They are using brandy that has been distilled up to ~150 proof (yes, it can be done but its not cheap).



According to this video (near the end) from Taylor, they are adding 77% neutral grain spirits.

[ame="http://youtu.be/fRzmeNub4KY"]http://youtu.be/fRzmeNub4KY[/ame]


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 28, 2012)

GreginND said:


> Where can a home winemaker or consumer buy high proof brandy?
> 
> My problem is with 40% (80 proof) brandy you would need to add 2 gallons of brandy to a 5 gallon batch of 12% alcohol wine to get to 20% alcohol. That's a lot of dilution.
> 
> ...


 
I agree, it has always been a concern how to get the alcohol up there without dilution.
My ports are made from ever clear and they are added during fermation and it stops the fermation because of the high alcohol content , which leaves you with a heavy bodied port and typically little sweet to off set the ABV


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## joeswine (Nov 28, 2012)

*evercleer??????????taste*

Evercleer will always change the taste of the wine no dought,be careful ...


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## ibglowin (Nov 28, 2012)

Nope, he says 77% GRAPE spirits.

*As the fermenting wine pours into the vat, a very clean young wine brandy is added to it. This colourless neutral spirit, at strength of 77% alcohol, is usually added in a ratio of about 115 litres of brandy to 435 litres of fermenting wine although this proportion can vary.*



GreginND said:


> According to this video (near the end) from Taylor, they are adding 77% neutral grain spirits.


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## ibglowin (Nov 28, 2012)

You can find some pretty high ~100 proof Grappa floating around. Problem is its $$$ so not worth the added expense.

Why would you make a port out of something only 12% to start with? Start with a super high SG must that when finished you will have ~16.5% ABV then backwsweeten with a grape concentrate (or similar, make your own from some of the must) then you only need to bump ABV 2-3% max.

You could of course make your own 150 proof Grappa but we can't discuss that on these forums.

Maybe I went to too many College parties but I can smell Everclear at 3 feet and taste it immediately in anything. Its just one of those things you never forget the smell of or taste of if you catch my drift...... 




GreginND said:


> Where can a home winemaker or consumer buy high proof brandy?
> 
> My problem is with 40% (80 proof) brandy you would need to add 2 gallons of brandy to a 5 gallon batch of 12% alcohol wine to get to 20% alcohol. That's a lot of dilution.
> 
> ...


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## GreginND (Nov 28, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Why would you make a port out of something only 12% to start with? Start with a super high SG must that when finished you will have ~16.5% ABV then backwsweeten with a grape concentrate (or similar, make your own from some of the must) then you only need to bump ABV 2-3% max.



Traditional port is made by stopping fermentation by fortification after about half the sugar is converted to alcohol. Thus, fortification is done when the wine is only ~7% alcohol.


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## ibglowin (Nov 28, 2012)

Nope. Two ways to get there as previously discussed.


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## Runningwolf (Nov 29, 2012)

GreginND said:


> Traditional port is made by stopping fermentation by fortification after about half the sugar is converted to alcohol. Thus, fortification is done when the wine is only ~7% alcohol.


 
I went to a workshop at Penn State about six months ago. They had a leading famous winemaker instructing from France. He also talked about stopping fermentation at around 7 brix (don't remember exact number) and the fortifying as you mention. Doing this you retained more flavor. I think I would like to try and do this next year.

I also remember hearing about holding back some juice, adding your spirits to that and adding it back in, which would add additional sugar and flavor. I suppose each winery has there own way of doing it.


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## JohnT (Nov 29, 2012)

Just my opinion on this matter.. 

I usually fotify 3 gallons of wine (at 8 to 10 brix) with 2 gallons of good brandy. (This is just an approximation). I then barrel age it for a year or more.

Personally, I want a port that has brandy flavor components. Since most brandy is distilled wine, I find (to my taste) that both ingredients combine to form a great flavor profile. 

I know that the cost is up there, but my port is not something that you would drink in high quantities. A half glass by the fireplace is all that is needed. A case of port will last me years!


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## ibglowin (Nov 29, 2012)

The big boys do usually stop fermentation at ~10 brix with fortification of a very high ABV grappa. They do not use grain spirits. If a commercial winery were ever to use something other than grape spirits it would have to be listed out separately on the bottle. For the home winemaker if your concerned about the amount of brandy being used your only real option IMHO is to ferment fully to dry, add an F-Pack of sorts and then fortify with brandy.

Nothing says "amateur" like a port wine fortified with Everclear but to each his own I suppose......


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## seth8530 (Nov 29, 2012)

Im not sure about everklear being rout of all evil in the fortification process. . EC is pretty neutral; however, I will say if price was not an option I would opt for brandy or grappa. I will be able to tell you some of my everklear results once my port has managed to cool down. I fortified it with around 1.75 L of EC


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 29, 2012)

As I have stated earlier - if you take the EC and clean it up with distiller grade charcoal . The taste or smells that some people talk about are very minimal.


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## GreginND (Nov 29, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Nope, he says 77% GRAPE spirits.
> 
> *As the fermenting wine pours into the vat, a very clean young wine brandy is added to it. This colourless neutral spirit, at strength of 77% alcohol, is usually added in a ratio of about 115 litres of brandy to 435 litres of fermenting wine although this proportion can vary.*



Ah, thanks. My ears are not what they used to be. I see on the printed description they clearly say brandy.


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## GreginND (Nov 29, 2012)

JohnT said:


> Just my opinion on this matter..
> 
> I usually fotify 3 gallons of wine (at 8 to 10 brix) with 2 gallons of good brandy. (This is just an approximation). I then barrel age it for a year or more.



John, do you diminish much of the grape wine flavor by diluting it this much?


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## Runningwolf (Nov 29, 2012)

John, I was also wondering about that and what abv are you shooting for? I created an awesome excel spreadsheet for determining the amount of spirits to use if anyone is interested based off the pearson square.


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## Ricky (Nov 29, 2012)

I`m very intrested Runningwolf, i have a chocolate raspberry,down to 1.020 tonight ,and will be racking to secondary tomorrow...i have a bottle of everclear and a bottle of E&J XO...still don`t know what way to go yet.....have to do the math....started at 1.130 second day i feed 1/3 of the sugar..1.080 stepped up to 1.084.....third day...another 1/3....1.052 up to 1.059...4th day 1.038 added the last third...1.042...yesterday...1.030.....tonight 1.020... the instructions say rack at below 1.018....


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## Runningwolf (Nov 29, 2012)

Ricky, pm me your email and I'll send it to you. We cannot post excel files on this forum as attachments. You will have to know your current approximate abv before using it and the abv of your spirits of choice.


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 29, 2012)

Here is also a good web-based alcohol calcuator 


http://vinoenology.com/calculators/fortification/


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## seth8530 (Nov 29, 2012)

Or you could check out my step feeding/ fortification calculator..... Its was posted in the tutorials now its in the write ups.


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## JohnT (Nov 30, 2012)

Guys, 

*Wolf:* I shoot for 20 to 22% apv. Two points over the tollerence of mosts yeasts. The base wine is fermented using RC-212, so my thinking is that 20 to 22 will stop fermentation dead.

Also, I prefer a port that is not too sweet. I keep the residual sugar a little lower than most. This is just to suit my simple tastes. 


*Gregin:* I understand your concern about diminishing the wine flavor. 

I find, however, that if you add everclear, you add nothing in the way of flavor. From a flavor point of view, my thinking is that it would be no different than adding water. 

Brandy, on the other hand, adds flavor. One that I like.

This is just my simple opinion. Others may disagree.



*Question:* Isn't grappa just a strong form of brandy? Aren't they the same in that they are both made from distilled fermented grapes?


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## ibglowin (Nov 30, 2012)

The main difference between the two is that Grappa is produced from grape pomace (left overs so to speak) and Brandy is produced from grape juice (i.e. the good stuff!)

See the Wiki Grappa page


JohnT said:


> especially the "overview" for more info.
> 
> 
> *Question:* Isn't grappa just a strong form of brandy? Aren't they the same in that they are both made from distilled fermented grapes?


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## JohnT (Nov 30, 2012)

That was my understanding also. Thanks glowing.


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## GreginND (Dec 1, 2012)

JohnT said:


> Gregin: I understand your concern about diminishing the wine flavor.
> 
> I find, however, that if you add everclear, you add nothing in the way of flavor. From a flavor point of view, my thinking is that it would be no different than adding water.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I certainly respect your opinion and agree that brandy may give really nice flavors to the port. I think this discussion provides inspiration for some experimentation. 

I think adding 40% brandy certainly can add brandy flavor. But you are adding a lot more water to the port than adding 95% everclear. The EC could keep the grape (or fruit) concentration in the wine from being washed out. And it isn't like adding water in terms of flavor. The added alcohol helps to extract mire flavors from the grape must. That being said, if I ever make port commercially I would try to source a quality high proof brandy from a distiller to fortify with in order to be as traditional as possible. That isn't an option for the home winemaker. 

I think next year I will split a batch and make it two ways. Take half and stop fermentation half way through with EC. The other half will be fermented dry and fortified with 40% brandy. It may take a few years to get the results. But it would be interesting o compare the two methods with the same grapes.


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## JohnT (Dec 3, 2012)

Greg, 

Good Idea to do a side-by-side. 

I hear what you are saying, but still have to say that I prefer using brandy. Again, this is just my opinion. You are more then allowed to dis-agree with me.

johnT.


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## GreginND (Dec 3, 2012)

I am certainly not disagreeing. I don't know what I would prefer better. Hence the need to experiment. I am interested in a process as close to traditional as possible that a home winemaker can do.


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## kboroff (Dec 6, 2012)

Question on using charcoal to clean up the EC.. Does the filtering reduce the ABV?


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## Runningwolf (Dec 6, 2012)

I don't think it would as you're not diluting it or anything. Charcoal I think will reduce color, taste and oder.


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