# LDPE4 Plastic Acceptable for Winemaking?



## Vertumnus (Jan 17, 2015)

I've been looking at upgrading to a 20 or 32 gallon primary fermenter. I've heard that one should only use HDPE2 or PET, but I'm pretty sure most of the Brute cans that are usually used for larger home winemaking are LDPE. I know that that level is considered food grade, but is it good enough for handling the alcohol/acid environment of wine without contamination?


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## grapeman (Jan 17, 2015)

The Rubbermade Brutes come in 10, 32 and 40 gallon as foodgrade and are the ones used for winemaking. I don't think the little bit you might save with a regular garbage can would be worth the risk.


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## RegarRenill (Jan 17, 2015)

grapeman said:


> The Rubbermade Brutes come in 10, 32 and 40 gallon as foodgrade and are the ones used for winemaking. I don't think the little bit you might save with a regular garbage can would be worth the risk.




According to the Rubbermaid website, Brute cans are made from LDPE, not HDPE.


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## grapeman (Jan 17, 2015)

All the Brute cans I use are listed as HDPE #2 on them and many many others use the same ones. I cannot find the information you cite.

Here is a link to the Rubbermaid site that lists the can and states that it is NSF #2 rated for food use http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com...oryCode_rcpNum=waste_waste_brute_utility_2620 . They may not list the type of plastic there anymore, but they are stamped with it on the ones I have.


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## dralarms (Jan 17, 2015)

Why does it matter if its low density vs high density?


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## dralarms (Jan 18, 2015)

Ok, thanks.


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## ibglowin (Jan 18, 2015)

I realize I was being overly simplistic in my response. There are several food grade levels of PE. As a general rule the lower the number the better and higher the quality of PE. #2 is the best grade and what my Brutes are stamped with. #4 is a lower quality PE but is also considered food grade. 

That said it really depends on what kind of food your gonna store in them right?

Dry oatmeal in a #4 is not gonna be a problem but storing something with a low pH and a solvent is a different animal. Wine has both a low pH and a solvent (12-15% ethanol)

So for wine making you really do want a bucket/primary with a #2 stamped on it.

More info on Food Grade Buckets can be found here.


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## RegarRenill (Jan 19, 2015)

grapeman said:


> All the Brute cans I use are listed as HDPE #2 on them and many many others use the same ones. I cannot find the information you cite.
> 
> Here is a link to the Rubbermaid site that lists the can and states that it is NSF #2 rated for food use http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com...oryCode_rcpNum=waste_waste_brute_utility_2620 . They may not list the type of plastic there anymore, but they are stamped with it on the ones I have.



This is interesting because on this site: http://rubbermaid.eu/about/plastic/ they list Brute cans as being LDPE.


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## ibglowin (Jan 19, 2015)

They very well could have shifted over to LDPE as a cost savings measure. Most people actually use these as a……... trash can (LOL) so it doesn't matter for 99% of the end users. 

Mine were purchased about 3-4 years ago and they are stamped with the #2 (HDPE).


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## RegarRenill (Jan 19, 2015)

That could be. I'll have to double check mine once it's empty and I can look t the bottom, lol...


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## grapeman (Jan 19, 2015)

I think I see the source of discrepancy. You list the European website and we look at the US site.


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## RegarRenill (Jan 19, 2015)

I had noticed that, but do you really think they'd use a different plastic for the European market? And the European site still says there food safe, just made from LDPE...and the site you referenced states that it's food safe as defined by NSF #2; if you actually check under the specifications area, the second to last line says "Material: LLDPE"


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## RegarRenill (Jan 19, 2015)

I clicked on the "Frequesntly Asked Questions" link on the page you linked and it sent me to this page: http://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=500&width=500

take note of #5. they reference the fact that the polyethylenes not being a good vapor barrier and allowing oxidization, but make no mention of chemical leaching. I'd still say it would be fine for a primary fermentor, we should be racking to a secondary (i'm a glass guy, but one of the plastic carboys _designed_ for winemaking should be fine, as well) for aging, at which point oxidization is more of a worry.


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## GaDawg (Jan 19, 2015)

dralarms said:


> Why does it matter if its low density vs high density?



Isn't it Linear Density Polyethylene?


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## ibglowin (Jan 19, 2015)

It's LLDPE or Linear Low Density PE Linear meaning straight chain polymerization (no branching)


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