# shellfish warning



## barryjo (Oct 28, 2011)

I use chitosan for clearing some of my wines. Since it is a shellfish derivative, is there enough residual in the wine to require a warning label? I have seen some home made wines with a label and am curious. Don't want to injure someones health.


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## grapeman (Oct 28, 2011)

It is enough of a concern that it is illegal to use it in commercial wines.


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## Wade E (Oct 28, 2011)

Thats weird because the manufacturer staqes that this has gone through such a processing that there are no proteins left in it at all.


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## vcasey (Oct 28, 2011)

barryjo said:


> I use chitosan for clearing some of my wines. Since it is a shellfish derivative, is there enough residual in the wine to require a warning label? I have seen some home made wines with a label and am curious. Don't want to injure someones health.



If you know someone is allergic please say something to them and let them make the choice. In most cases it will not bother them but there are a few folks that may just don't want to take a chance.


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## AlFulchino (Oct 28, 2011)

regardless...you dont really need clarifiers..patience will take care of things and you can filter just as easily w/o the concern of chitosin


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## grapeman (Oct 28, 2011)

Wade said:


> Thats weird because the manufacturer staqes that this has gone through such a processing that there are no proteins left in it at all.





Yes it is weird Wade, but that is the way the law is written. It is not on the list of approved substances, so it is illegal to add it to the wine in a commercial winery.


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## barryjo (Oct 29, 2011)

@ vcasey. And therein lies the rub. I don't KNOW of anyone with this allergy. And I doubt they wear a sign or come right out and tell you when you first meet. Not as bad as a peanut allergy but still-----.


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## vcasey (Oct 29, 2011)

barryjo said:


> @ vcasey. And therein lies the rub. I don't KNOW of anyone with this allergy. And I doubt they wear a sign or come right out and tell you when you first meet. Not as bad as a peanut allergy but still-----.




For the most part you really have nothing to worry about. Most folks are actually allergic to the proteins and through the processing that part is eliminated. Then you have the few like me are are not so lucky and believe me they know what is in the food and drinks they consume and they will ask you for that information. I think you are worrying over nothing, but if you feel you should put a warning on your label go for it. 

All allergies are bad as peanut allergies, they just aren't as well known.


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## AlFulchino (Oct 29, 2011)

the very first thing i was asked by ttb was about chitosin


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## grapeman (Nov 6, 2011)

Count me in on the allergy. I almost died after eating lobster during high school in a cooking class. I also need to steer clear of crab and similar type crustceans. A couple months ago I ate at a seafood restaurant choosing hadock and shrimp, but goofed and asked for them fried. Obviously something in the cooking process was contaminated because I was sick and needed to take medication after dinner. Believe me it isn't fun.............................and nothing to be brushed off easily.


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## Wade E (Nov 6, 2011)

Rich, have you ever used Chitosan in any of your wines including kits and if so did it effect you, just curious?


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## tonyt (Nov 6, 2011)

Other than Wine Expert do any of the other brand kits use Chitosan? What clearing agents are known not to be Chitosan or shellfish directive?


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## grapeman (Nov 6, 2011)

Wade I do not use any kind of chitosan in my wine anymore now that I am commercial as it is illegal for commercial useage. I have used SuperKleer before going commercial in my personal wine and never had any problems with it.


I cannot even use chondroitin products for joints though because of the shellfish used to make it. There are warnings on that stuff now. My MIL once had me try a supplement pill of it before they began warning about it. I ended up having my airways constrict and needed to take benadryl to relieve it.


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## grapeman (Nov 6, 2011)

ttortorice said:


> Other than Wine Expert do any of the other brand kits use Chitosan? What clearing agents are known not to be Chitosan or shellfish directive?





Egg whites and any pvpp products. Sure there are others.


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## barryjo (Nov 6, 2011)

appleman said:


> It is enough of a concern that it is illegal to use it in commercial wines.







I guess the same holds true for Super-Kleer. 
Evidently I have lots to learn about allergies. Since I am not allergic to anything (Iwill not touch liver and onions or headcheese!) I think the best option, as stated, is to put a label on the bottle.
Thanks to all.


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## Wade E (Nov 6, 2011)

ttortorice said:


> Other than Wine Expert do any of the other brand kits use Chitosan? What clearing agents are known not to be Chitosan or shellfish directive?


Tony, I havent done any W.E. kits in quite some time but I remember them using Isinglass when I was doing them. SuperKleer which is a 2 part fining agent uses Chitosan along with Kiesol. RJ Spagnols uses SuperKleer but either packages it themselves or just has a deal worked out that they dont put the name on it as SuperKleer. Not sure about some of the other brands like Cellar Craft even though I have made a few of those and dont really have access to some of the other kits that are mainly distributed up north. Rich, I figured you couldnt use this now that you are commercial just wondering if when you were making kits you stayed away from this knowing about your allergies or went with the flow.


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## barryjo (Nov 6, 2011)

appleman said:


> Count me in on the allergy. I almost died after eating lobster during high school in a cooking class. I also need to steer clear of crab and similar type crustceans. A couple months ago I ate at a seafood restaurant choosing hadock and shrimp, but goofed and asked for them fried. Obviously something in the cooking process was contaminated because I was sick and needed to take medication after dinner. Believe me it isn't fun.............................and nothing to be brushed off easily.



As I stated before, I have some learning to do about allergies. So, why would you order shrimp at a seafood restaurant?? Or better yet, why eat at a seafood restaurant at all? And what does the preparation method have to do with shrimp?
And as for other fining agents, bentonite and sparkoloid come to mind. Are these OK? If I remember correctly, ising glass is derived from fish cartilage. And when will somebody package "patience" for us folks??????


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## grapeman (Nov 6, 2011)

barryjo not all shellfish are the same. I can eat clams,scallops and shrimp with no ill effects. Lobster and crabs however are another story. Also I went there because I took my wife out to eat and I try not to limit others eating with my shortcomings. I thought I was safe with the meal I ordered, but they apparently had cross contaminated something during preparation.


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## Runningwolf (Nov 6, 2011)

Wow that really stinks Rich. I have pollen and grain allergies but I am able to live with them. Being allergic to seafood and things like peanuts would be a nightmare.


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## vcasey (Nov 6, 2011)

barryjo said:


> As I stated before, I have some learning to do about allergies.
> And when will somebody package "patience" for us folks??????



Don't worry even the experts have a lot to learn about allergies. They really can be very different for each person. 

If you make more wine then you can bottle or drink then patience is easy. 

Rich I've had that happen once and actually went back to eat at the restaurant, just made sure I spoke to the manager first. It was fun watching everyone bend over backwards, almost made up for the pain I went through.


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## tonyt (Nov 7, 2011)

My brother-in-law has the shellfish allergy. He drinks my wine to no ill effect but I still worry. He once ordered a chicken fried steakthat apparently had been fried in oil that had been used for shrimp. He god extremely sick. Cross comtamination in restaurants is a huge issue for folks with allergies and most restaurants are keenly aware to avoid cross contamination. Unfortunately accidents happen.


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## Car-Boy (Jan 5, 2012)

If Chitosan is not on the ttb approved list, what is, and what is the best to use?


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## grapeman (Jan 5, 2012)

Unless you are a licensed winery, it does not matter what is on the list!


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## Dean (Jan 7, 2012)

Chitosan contains absolutely no trace of shellfish proteins, which is the allergen. People with shellfish allergies canliterallydrink the stuff if they wanted to with no effect other than gagging on the thickness of it.


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## BigMac (Oct 12, 2012)

Just saw this post and thought I would add my comment.
I have regularly used chitosin.
I gave a bottle of wine to a co-worker.
The next day he asked me what I put in the wine.
He told me he got a very slight reaction as if he was eating shell fish.
I was straight up with him and told him about the chitosin.
That was a couple of years ago, I haven't used it since.

Mac


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## BotanyPhD (Jan 12, 2013)

I wonder why no one has produced this from inactive fungi since chitin is in the cell walls? Deacetylation of chitin makes chitosin. I know people are allergic to fungi as well but it would at least give you an option. (waiting for someone to save tonail clippings and try it.. big tow vineyards?)


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## Wiccan_Lager (Jan 15, 2013)

I checked this out and according to webMD, allergy to shellfish is found in the protien (meat) of the shellfish and not the outer shell. There is no evidence, at least medically, that chitosan can induce a reaction.

I only looked because my supplier recommended it to me and I was concerned with the same thing. The last thing I need is the situation where some one dies because my wine killed them. Totally ruins the party.


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## Midwest Vintner (Jan 15, 2013)

Wiccan_Lager said:


> I checked this out and according to webMD, allergy to shellfish is found in the protien (meat) of the shellfish and not the outer shell. There is no evidence, at least medically, that chitosan can induce a reaction.



Yes, but it seems many are unfamiliar with factory or production work. The meat might be pulled, but it will still be present. Not in large quantities, but some are hyper allergic. In ANY production setup, it is common that things cross contaminate. Riches findings at the restaurant are NOT uncommon. Cutting boards get reused, dishes are washed in the same water (even if it looks clean), etc. The same goes for any kind of production facility. Another example, I work for a machine shop at night. We recycle all the chips, but there are many types of materials. Even though we use different, new barrels to collect the oddball metals, the machines themselves are never fully clean and we use the same bricketor (sp?) to compact all materials. This is why the every metal we buy, actually is a blend (even if it says xxxx) that has margins for other varies metals in an ISO standard.

Food and wine are the same way. I wanted to produce a PBJ wine, but the peanuts are just too much of a hassle and I'd have to literally buy a whole set of equipment just to make it.

We use bentonite on a rare occasion. We are learning to use filters in the right combo's to get the wine clear, but not rob flavor. Time is the best option, as others have posted.


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