# Extracts



## Runningwolf

Joe you are the expert here and I hope you help take the lead here. There is a lot of interest in this lately so I thought it should have a thread of it's own for search purposes. 

I would like to make a vanilla and cinnamon extract to begin with. I'm looking at an Ebay store and they have several types of Vanilla beans so that brings up some questions I was ready to hit Joe with but this store answers all of them explaining different grades and such. They explain making an extract just like Joe has explained to us.

There are many more extracts and ways to make them on this forum and I hope everyone that makes them or wants to will chime in here.


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## Tess

Tahitian Vanilla bean is the best. I might not know all about wine but I know my bean!!! lol


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## Runningwolf

Tess said:


> Tahitian Vanilla bean is the best. I might not know all about wine but I know my bean!!! lol



Dang too late, I just ordered 1/2 pound of another. Tess is the Tahitian best for cooking. They explained the difference between grade a & b stating use A for cooking buy for extracts just use B. 

Any advice on cinnamon before I pull the plug?


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## cimbaliw

Behold the three witches of MacBeth... ruby red grapefruit zest, lemon and lime zest extracts. The lemon and lime are fairly predictable, the grapefruit is down right bizarre. I use inexpensive Ed Wort's Apfelwein as my testing ground. I've found, OK my wife found, good quality Madascar Burbon vanilla extract at the grocery store. 

Nice thread Dan. Would it be possible to expand this to a tweak thread in spreadsheet fashion where we can log our experiments and their perceived results over time?


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## Tess

Runningwolf said:


> Dang too late, I just ordered 1/2 pound of another. Tess is the Tahitian best for cooking. They explained the difference between grade a & b stating use A for cooking buy for extracts just use B.
> 
> Any advice on cinnamon before I pull the plug?



it is the best for cooking and even bath salts , candles!! so it is what it is!! I would find it hard to stray from Tahitian because I am a cook and know the bean!! lol


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## Runningwolf

Thanks Tess, I ordered my Cinnamon from Olive Nation. I got 2 pounds for 11.25

cimbaliw that's the type of bean I got. I am also very interested in Joe's zesting so I am happy to see you get that started here. I spread sheet I think is out. A spread sheet could work if there is a whiz out there that wants to build it and maintain it (that's the trick). It's out of my league and time constraints.


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## Tess

You are amazing!  "Out of your league?" Im afraid to post to some of you all's post. If I do have the confidence to reply i will . So here I have it...I think  Still might not be right I just know my vanilla bean and I sure I will still get some arguments but I will stick with what I know!! lol make sense??


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## Runningwolf

Tess said:


> You are amazing!  "Out of your league?" Im afraid to post to some of you all's post. If I do have the confidence to reply i will . So here I have it...I think  Still might not be right I just know my vanilla bean and I sure I will still get some arguments but I will stick with what I know!! lol make sense??



I call it as I see and not afraid to admit it. I'm not ashamed I reached out to a few members on the side that made pear wine when I never did. I would have done the basic's but they gave me added pointers. It's all about taking your wine from good to great.

As far as you making sense, hel! no you never did.  Kidding!! I love a girl that knows her beans in and out of the bath!


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## Pumpkinman

I'm hoping that Saramc will chime in here, she gave me a very easy but extremely good Strawberry extract!


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## Deezil

About the only extract I've made, was one for my Banana Bochet Port

Bananas + Brandy

Sat for almost 2 months

Then I strained out the solids

It's since cleared of the sediment/pulp..
I'll take another picture tomorrow, to share. 

Bananas + Brandy = Butterscotch
(I have NO idea how, but its overwhelmingly-so)


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## Tess

Runningwolf said:


> I call it as I see and not afraid to admit it. I'm not ashamed I reached out to a few members on the side that made pear wine when I never did. I would have done the basic's but they gave me added pointers. It's all about taking your wine from good to great.
> 
> As far as you making sense, hel! no you never did.  Kidding!! I love a girl that knows her beans in and out of the bath!



ahhhh your just mean!!  just messin! Iv known from day one your a class act even if you dont try to be


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## vernsgal

Runningwolf said:


> A spread sheet could work if there is a whiz out there that wants to build it and maintain it (that's the trick). It's out of my league and time constraints.



Way out of my league too but I know we have at least a handful of members here who could pull this off



Runningwolf said:


> It's all about taking your wine from good to great.
> 
> I agree. I'd love to hear all the extracts that were done,with what you added it to and how long you aged it
> 
> Sorry Runningwolf, I'm not sure how to double quote a post - see how far my computer skills go.lol


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## Sammyk

Dan you will not go wrong with the Madagascar Vanilla Beans. We have used them for years in making vanilla ( 2 to 3 whole beans in a fifth of light rum) and for baking and in wine. We have used the beans both ways with wine; adding the extract or the whole beans.


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## Runningwolf

I understand you want to go by weight and abv. I'm reading 1/4 pound cut up in small pieces and placed in a qt jar with 35-40% abv alcohol for a month. Shake jar several times a day. I think federal law says to be an actual extract has to be 35%. It was late last night when I read it.

 Vanilla extract is a solution containing the flavor compound vanillin as the primary ingredient. Pure vanilla extract is made by macerating and percolating vanilla beans in a solution of ethyl alcohol and water. In the United States, in order for a vanilla extract to be called pure, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration requires that the solution contains a minimum 35% of alcohol and 100g of vanilla beans per litre (13.35 ounces per gallon).[1] Double and triple strength (up to 20-fold) vanilla extracts are available.


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## Deezil

Deezil said:


> About the only extract I've made, was one for my Banana Bochet Port
> 
> Bananas + Brandy
> 
> Sat for almost 2 months
> 
> Then I strained out the solids
> 
> It's since cleared of the sediment/pulp..
> I'll take another picture tomorrow, to share.
> 
> Bananas + Brandy = Butterscotch
> (I have NO idea how, but its overwhelmingly-so)


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## GreginND

I will second the Madagascar beans. A chef friend of mine just gave me some extract he made starting last May. Leave it alone for 3 months and then filter it through some cheesecloth. He just used Smirnoff vodka. It's really really good.


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## geek

and what's the vanilla extract for?
Do you use all these types of extracts for back sweetening fruit wines?


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## Runningwolf

No not back sweetening. Some folk are adding just a very small dash of it to some wines or use it for cooking.


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## LoneStarLori

I bought some Madagascar Bourbon Vanilla beans off ebay a couple of months ago to use when canning peaches. I have 23 left and didn't really know what to do with them. Now I do. Extract time!


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## jamesngalveston

lori make some vanilla sugar, it is excellent.
one are two whole beans split in a bout 4 cups sugar.
let sit for about 2 weeks, pull the beans out and stir the clumps out of the sugar, and use the sugar, like normal, coffee, tea, etc.


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## Stressbaby

I work with spreadsheets all day long. I can manage a spreadsheet.
Google drive would be one place to put it.

Dan, is this thread limited to alcohol extracts or are successful gelatin extracts also welcome? Not all of my gelatin extract trials have been successful, but some have (banana, coconut).


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## Runningwolf

Has anyone made a Almond Extract?


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## Deezil

Runningwolf said:


> Has anyone made a Almond Extract?



I've given it some thought/research, but haven't actually done it yet.. I have a lot of extracts on my "to do" list actually


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## RegionRat

*Good Eats Vanilla Extract*

There is an episode of _Good Eats_ on _The food Network_ where Alton Brown discusses Vanilla at length. I remember he made extract. The episode is Season 9 Episode 14. I have been looking for a while for a link to videos of that episode. The best I came up with was a transcript of the show. All videos of that episode I find have been blocked due to copyright infringements. WTH.

RR


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## geek

I'd be interetsed in making a white wine and add almond extract to back sweeten.


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## joeswine

*Extrats and simple syurp*

"THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX" _be creative with *extracts* and* simple syrup*............................follow the thought process _


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## joeswine

*Extracts continued*

EXTRACTS CONTINUED


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## Sammyk

I have been making my own extracts for many years.

For almond use raw almonds. The tricky part is removing the brown skin on each almond. If you do not remove the brown "skin" on each almond or the extract will be bitter. I generally use Bacardi light rum but know others who use Vodka.

Place almonds in a jar and top with rum or vodka. Place a tight fitting lid on the jar. Shake daily. Store the jar away from light. I keep them in a cupboard.
When ready to use pour through a coffee filter that will fit in a sieve. I only strain what I am going to use and leave the rest in the jar. Extracts will last literally years.

To correct the statement above from geek, extracts are not sweeteners and are rather bitter if used as they are. They are flavors and often sugar is need to make them less bitter.

Take a dip your finger in an extract and taste. While they smell wonderful they are very bitter to the taste because they are super concentrated with flavor.


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## joeswine

*Fun with extracts*

*EXTRACTS *HAVE BEEN ARE AS LONG AS WINE AND BEER MAKING,EXTRACTING THE ESSENES HAS DIFFERENT FORMATS BUT ARE SIMILAR,THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX AND HAVE FUN WITH_ *EXTRACTS *_


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## seth8530

Your extracts look amazing, I wish I could give them a good try.


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## Runningwolf

Stressbaby said:


> I work with spreadsheets all day long. I can manage a spreadsheet.
> Google drive would be one place to put it.
> 
> Dan, is this thread limited to alcohol extracts or are successful gelatin extracts also welcome? Not all of my gelatin extract trials have been successful, but some have (banana, coconut).



Sorry I missed answering this. I think it would be nice to post all successful extracts.


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## Runningwolf

Sammy and Joe thank you very much for your contributions. This is exactly what I am looking for on this thread.

Sammy can you please give more detailed information. How many almonds per qt jar? How many ounces or did you just fill it to the top. I've read a small amount and I've seen drastically different recipes. Just like the wine I like to hear what works for you, as we know there is many ways to skin a ...ahh a lemon.


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## geek

When exactly do you use or need an extract and on what types of wines?


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## Runningwolf

Cinnamon extract would be perfect for apple wine.


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## geek

Dan, but when. After stabilizing and back sweeten?

Wha extract is good for red wine?


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## Runningwolf

I would add it when I do bench trails for sweetening or blending. This is a crap shoot. I have never used it before for wines but I might start. An example might be just a tad of vanilla for reds. Whether it is for wine or food there is a lot of interest and experience in it so I wanted to give it a thread of it's own. Joe, doesn't do many things right (only kidding!!) but of all his great posts this part always has stuck in my mind. He's been talking about since years ago way back in Georges day (if you know George). Heck I might even try a chocolate extract...stay tuned!!!


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## joeswine

*The why and when*




 EXTRACTS, can be used for many different reasons, they can be used for adding a sub flavor to a wine, they can be used as a main ingredient in cellos and they can be used to correct a good wine that's gone bad AN FINALLY TO CREATE WINE OF IT'S OWN 

* THAT'S THE WHY*


_ADDING IT TO A WINE IN THE THIRD STAGE OF THE PROCESS_ _LETS YOU ADD BY TASTE THE AMOUNT OF ENHANCEMENT YOU REQUIRE AND BEFORE CHEMS,AND FINEING AGENTS._

_ *THAT'S THE WHEN *_


* MOST of all their fun to create with just think of the possibility ..........................................*


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## Julie

I must say this is an awesome thread, I am really enjoying this. Like Runningwolf, I would add extracts when I am backsweetening or making final adjustments.


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## Neviawen

I just started a citrus extract by grating the zest off 1 grapefruit, 2 lemons, and 2 limes and soaking the zest in Everclear.
I made a batch of Hibiscus Wine last year and in a few weeks when the extract is ready I'm going to add it to the hibiscus wine before bottling. 
in Jamaica they have a drink made from hibiscus where they add citrus to it. I'm shooting to make something similar, but with a kick of course.


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## cimbaliw

"The tricky part is removing the* brown skin* on each almond"

I've gotta think this is a tannin rich area of the seed. As we all search for G packs and other ways of bolstering our wines there may be a Holy Grail in some of these unwanted, "bitter" parts of the plant.

BC


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## Runningwolf

A very interesting point I just realized tonight. I thought everything would be 35% alcohol like Vanilla extract. Wrong? Look at my notes;

McCormick Extracts:
Almond 32%
Peppermint 89%
Orange 80%
Lemon 83%
Anise 73%
Vanilla 35%

Watkins Extracts:
Orange 89%
Cherry 38%
Strawberry 18%
Lemon 85%
Almond 45%

As you can see two completely different companies, different alcohol contents BUT there is a similarity on which extracts are higher or lower in alcohol. This definately gives us another starting point to work from. Now to go buy a zester so I can catch up to Joe and Neviawen.


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## joeswine

*Alcohol versus super clear*

* When* making an extract is important to realize the difference between using a product like vodka and using a product such as* Everkleer*. The vodka's alcohol level is nowhere near as strong or potent as the *Everkleer* so if you're looking for a mild extract then *vodka* is the item to use, it doesn't go as far or have the bite of *Everkleer*, if using Everclear it extraction is at a much higher rate and therefore takes out more essence or the oils of the item you're trying to extract it also goes much further when you're trying to use it either by itself as a cello or as an additive enhancer to another product.

It's all a matter of taste and what you think your final product should taste like me myself I always use *Everkleer* it goes further gives me a better extract product and that equates to flavor.


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## Runningwolf

Today I started two extracts. I started 2 qts of Vanilla extract @ 35%alc. and 2 qts. of Cinnamon extract @ 40% abv. I still ended up with 3 qt jars filled with extra cinnamon sticks for the future.

I added 4oz of Madagascar Bourbon vanilla beans cut into 1/2" pieces in each qt jar. I put about 18 cinnamon sticks in each of the Cin. extract jars. I will shake each jar daily. The Vanilla will be ready by Christmas and the Cinnamon in about 6-8 weeks.


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## geek

Dan, what do you plan to use both of them on?


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## Sammyk

Dan that is a lot of cinnamon sticks. I use 2 to 3 per quart jar. Just my thoughts.


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## Runningwolf

Geek, I'll use them for cooking, gifts or whatever. Timing will be perfect for Christmas gifts.

Sammy I read 3-4 per cup on many websites so being the rookie I am at this I just multiplied it out (4c/qt). Stronger extract just means use less, right?


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## Sammyk

Yes you would use less for the recipe. 
I used one cinnamon stick in Apple Pie wine in each gallon during secondary. Just the right amount of vanilla for us.

With the Madagascar vanilla bean, I use 3 or 4 in a fifth of Bacardi light rum. You can tell by the color when it is ready to use. Very dark color means lots of vanilla flavor. Wonderful for baking! We just added some to some fresh black cherry wine. Really adds to the mouth feel too.


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## geek

I actually have a cinnamon mix with vodka I started 2 months ago but don't know what to use with...LOL


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## jamesngalveston

after reading all this thread, i added 3 lbs of toasted oak and 1 quart of ever clear, to make an oak extract, so far it is doing great, not clearing as fast , but it is clearing, and it has a wonder full earthen oak smell...

thanks joeswine for a great thread....


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## ckvchestnut

GreginND said:


> I will second the Madagascar beans. A chef friend of mine just gave me some extract he made starting last May. Leave it alone for 3 months and then filter it through some cheesecloth. He just used Smirnoff vodka. It's really really good.



How many beans and for how much vodka? I definitely want to try this. I thought it had to be steam extracted or something like that. Didn't realize it was easier than that.


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## Runningwolf

I got my recipe right from Vanilla Products USA and they say to cut up 4oz of Vanilla Beans into 1/2" pieces. 35% abv is the norm if you look at vanilla extracts on store shelves. Like Grag I used Madagascar beans.


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## ckvchestnut

Yes thanks I'll try this! It will be cheaper and better than buying it already as an extract. It will probably even be better in my soap and skin care making! Maybe I could add a tad to one of my elderberry wine batches for comparison. How much roughly for a 6 gallon batch for a light hint and mouthfeel? 

Before finding this thread I had thought a hint of cinnamon extract in DD's dragon blood might be nice, has anyone tried that?


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## Sammyk

It depends on the strength of the extract. Start with a teaspoon and go from there.


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## ckvchestnut

Thanks Sammy... At what stage is best to add this? I'm contemplating bulk aging this in the carboys. They only just got racked into the carboys last weekend. So anytime before bottling or just when back sweetening if applicable?


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## Sammyk

We generally add at secondary but we have also add it prior to bottling.


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## btom2004

Nice thread, I'll have to start making some extracts.
I didn't see anyone using any of the juices from the fruit. Is there a reason for this? Will the zest of a lemon or lime actually taste like the fruit? Or will it simply taste like oily skin in alcohol? If so this won't make a tasty wine.


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## GreginND

It is not juice you want in the extracts, it is the flavorful oils. That's why you need alcohol to extract them. The essential oils are not soluble in water alone. The reason for different extracts requiring different alcohol concentrations is all about what is best to solubilize the flavor and aroma oils.

For citrus, much of the flavor is in the skin. It's different than the juice. It's the pure flavor without all the citric acid.


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## btom2004

GreginND said:


> It is not juice you want in the extracts, it is the flavorful oils. That's why you need alcohol to extract them. The essential oils are not soluble in water alone. The reason for different extracts requiring different alcohol concentrations is all about what is best to solubilize the flavor and aroma oils.
> 
> For citrus, much of the flavor is in the skin. It's different than the juice. It's the pure flavor without all the citric acid.


I've chewed on lemon and lime skins and they don't taste good . I guess the extracts must add the aroma of the fruit, I just can't see it tasting like the fruit. I'm just talking about these fruit . It sounds great for the other items being used . I just don't think oily bitter alcohol will make wine taste better. If you leave the skin in your lemon or lime aides, it tastes like crap the next day. I'm thinking, that's what a zest extract must taste like.


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## Sammyk

btom2004 IF you are getting the white pith in the peels it will taste bitter.

On another note. We have many citrus trees in our greenhouse. We grate the skins, being careful not to get into the white pithy part that is bitter. We lay the gratings on parchment paper on a baking sheet and allow them to dry out. Usually a few days to completely dry out. Think dehydrate without a mechanical dehydrator. When dry we store them in zip lock bags or other air tight containers. The dehydrated lemon is awesome in fish batter or mixed with other fish coatings.

Since lemons ripen in the winter we then squeeze out the juice, put the juice in ice cube trays. When frozen solid, the cubes go in a Zip Lock freezer bag to use for summer time drinks.


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## ckvchestnut

Thanks for that tip Sammy... I'll try a hint of vanilla in my big red and maybe a hint of cinnamon in my cran-apple cider will see!


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## J-Gee

the dehydrated lemon sounds like a winner in the fish batter.


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## joeswine

THE extraction, is for pure flavor only by itself not to pleasant but mix with_ sugars_ whether in direct contact with the wine or as a base flavor itself, mixed with_ simple syrup_ the essence is transformed into a different format and can be powerful or not. the extraction process starts with a plan.understanding the ups and downs of using extracts comes with trial and error, mostly error, go slow and know what taste profile your trying to achieve.


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## Kraffty

For Joeswine, this is off topic, but how many square feet is your wine making area? Looks like you have a very comfortable working area.
Mike


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## cintipam

I recall Runningwolf mentioning this, and I'd like to speak up and say me too! I'd love to make some chocolate extract. I've been reading Joe's thread on extracts so have the everclear, cinnamon sticks and vanilla beans ready. Also some coffee beans and some grapefruit to zest. However as much as I love vanilla and thought it would go oh so well with so many of my wines, when I sat down and did a taste test with purchased extracts (made for beer and wine specifically) I found that I really preferred the addition of chocolate extract. It smoothed out a lot of the young wines, seemed like a great flavor addition. Vanilla, on the other hand, did not improve the wines flavor, seemed to confuse the flavor even. I was mostly testing cranberry and cranberry blends as that is what I had at the time.

Anybody ever make chocolate extract? If yes, please please share recipe and bean source.

Pam in cinti


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## Deezil

cintipam said:


> Anybody ever make chocolate extract? If yes, please please share recipe and bean source.
> 
> Pam in cinti



You'll want to find a chocolate bar that is atleast 85% cocoa... The higher, the better... You dont want chocolate with large amounts of added oils/fats/dairy






(Borrowed from Google)

I have one of these on hand.. I'll have to pilfer some vodka from upstairs, and see how it extracts


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## Stressbaby

I know this can be done with the gelatin technique, because they describe white and dark chocolate "essences" here.

I'll give it a go this way and post back. Mine will use powdered cocoa.


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## Julie

Stressbaby said:


> I know this can be done with the gelatin technique, because they describe white and dark chocolate "essences" here.
> 
> I'll give it a go this way and post back. Mine will use powdered cocoa.



The problem I have found with the powdered coca is that it does not stay separate in the wine. What I mean is when I use a dark chocolate, you get the taste of the wine and a nice chocolate finish. With the powdered coca it just blends in with the wine.


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## Deezil

Deezil said:


> I'll have to pilfer some vodka from upstairs, and see how it extracts








I survived..
The whole bar in 1 pint 40% ABV vodka; 1 square of 8 was grated

(More on this can be found here)


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## Stressbaby

Julie said:


> The problem I have found with the powdered coca is that it does not stay separate in the wine. What I mean is when I use a dark chocolate, you get the taste of the wine and a nice chocolate finish. With the powdered coca it just blends in with the wine.



I've got some 85% Lindt I could try that too.


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## joeswine

*Kraffty*

My wine making area is about 200SG.FT. It extends through out the basement with a fully equipped kitchen and dishwasher.


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## cintipam

Joe

wow!

Pam in cinti


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## cintipam

Love lemon, dried zest sounds wonderful!

I never thought of using actual chocolate bars. I got caught up thinking of using a bean like we do for vanilla. Cocoa beans I guess. anyone ever try that?

Pam in cinti


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## Runningwolf

Tonight I am zesting lemons and limes for those two extracts! Lime extract is sounding real good in a vodka tonic about right now!


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## Runningwolf

Well I wasn't planning on more pictures but I moved on to the limes. I've got a secret and willing to share it hear. I bought a zester but "thinking outside of the box" I bought a grater also. After all it's much bigger and will cut the time in half. WRONG!!! After using the grater on the lemons I switched to the smaller zester for the limes. OMG it was 3X's faster. Each bag held about 16 fruits so I think I have enough to start two quarts of each tomorrow.


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## vernsgal

cintipam said:


> Love lemon, dried zest sounds wonderful!
> 
> I never thought of using actual chocolate bars. I got caught up thinking of using a bean like we do for vanilla. Cocoa beans I guess. anyone ever try that?
> 
> Pam in cinti



I took notes from one of Julie's posts ( thanks Julie) and added Lindt's 85% dark chocolate ( 1 bar per pound )to my secondary of Cherry wine, and even though it still has a lot of aging to do, it taste's amazing
I would think cocoa beans would add a different flavor but also good. I have added coffee beans to a secondary and it seems to be tasting good in it's aging.


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## joeswine

*A zesting we ill go*

THAT'S THE SPIRIT WOLFMAN


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## Runningwolf

I used 40% abv or 80 proof vodka in the Lemon and Lime extract. There is approximately 35 grams of zest in each quart. I really like the way the zested lime looks over the grated lemon, just saying. It also floats around rather than sitting on the bottom like the lemon.


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## geek

what are you going to use that one for?


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## Runningwolf

Lime in Gin and tonics...OH YEAH!!!!! Pies, gifts, How about on fish?


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## joeswine

It should all settle down in the end and they do look spot on *,wolfman*


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## jamesngalveston

please explain the second to the last picture, the one with strawberrys and napkins, and plastic forks...
thanks.


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## Runningwolf

jamesngalveston said:


> please explain the second to the last picture, the one with strawberrys and napkins, and plastic forks...
> thanks.


What the H&ll are you talking about? The second to last picture is limes being zested. There is only limes and lemons in the pictures and no napkins or plastic forks????


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## Runningwolf

joeswine said:


> It should all settle down in the end and they do look spot on *,wolfman*



Thanks Joe, I just shook up the jars just before snapping the picture.


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## Kraffty

I think James was talking about joes pics from his wine room
Mike


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## joeswine

*Club set up*

TE PICS WITH THE STRAWBERRY'S AND BLUE TABLE CLOTHS THAT'S WERE WE WERE SITTING UP FOR A WINE CLUB MEETING.


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## vernsgal

So is it possible to make a licorice extract?


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## Runningwolf

I'm not sure. You would have to research what licorice it's made from. Have you ever seen it on the store shelves?


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## Sammyk

There is an anise extract, used to make black licorice. So yes, I think it is possible.


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## joeswine

GO ON OLIVE NATION .COM you'll find it there ,some times the element you want is better than you can make at home do to the chemistry involved....................work smarter not harder.


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## jamesngalveston

anise are star anise is used in licorice.
thanks joe, I kind of thought that was for a wine tasting.


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## vernsgal

Thanks for the site Joe. I loved that not only did they offer the product but that you could also get the recipe to do it yourself.


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## ckvchestnut

Julie said:


> The problem I have found with the powdered coca is that it does not stay separate in the wine. What I mean is when I use a dark chocolate, you get the taste of the wine and a nice chocolate finish. With the powdered coca it just blends in with the wine.



Anyone with chocolate experience - is it possible to put pure unsweetened chocolate straight into the secondary or will it go bad?


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## ckvchestnut

vernsgal said:


> I took notes from one of Julie's posts ( thanks Julie) and added Lindt's 85% dark chocolate ( 1 bar per pound )to my secondary of Cherry wine, and even though it still has a lot of aging to do, it taste's amazing I would think cocoa beans would add a different flavor but also good. I have added coffee beans to a secondary and it seems to be tasting good in it's aging.



Ah just saw this post... How much chocolate per gallon?


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## Runningwolf

ckvchestnut said:


> Ah just saw this post... How much chocolate per gallon?



This is something you'll have to experiment with. Start low and add more if you think you need it. I did this with an ice wine and also a cherry several years ago.

I don't want to taste chocolate when I first take a drink. I look for a hint of it on the back pallet or second taste.


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## ckvchestnut

Thanks yes that is what I am aiming for... A subtle hint that you can't quite put your finger on. Do you know what a good starting point would be? It would almost seem moot to try to go by taste at first? Wouldn't the flavors meld and change so much during aging?


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## ckvchestnut

I posted another thread called adding chocolate to elderberry wine with more information on what I'm trying to achieve with one of my batches... Thanks for your response Runningwolf!


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## Runningwolf

I would try maybe an ounce per gallon. I don't remember exactly how much I used as it's been several years but maybe Julie might have some other advice on this.


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## ckvchestnut

Also once I put it in how often do I have to stir it?


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## ckvchestnut

Ok thanks very much! I'm in no rush as this wine will take awhile anyway!


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## Runningwolf

I left it in for 30 days. Stirring is probably a good thing occasionally, I did not stir.


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## ckvchestnut

Did u have to remove the chocolate? I thought it would dissolve?


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## vernsgal

ckvchestnut said:


> Ah just saw this post... How much chocolate per gallon?



I use 1 bar per Gal. That's what I read to use and I put it in my Cherry wine and it tastes amazing right now. A little strong in Alc. still, but you taste cherry with an after taste of chocolate


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## Runningwolf

ckvchestnut said:


> Did u have to remove the chocolate? I thought it would dissolve?



The chocolate will release flavors but it does not dissolve.


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## ckvchestnut

Ok Thank you Runningwolf! Can I just time it so I rack it off the chocolate then? I can't imagine trying to remove it from a carboy full of wine - this just dawned on me as being a stupid question lol


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## ckvchestnut

vernsgal said:


> I use 1 bar per Gal. That's what I read to use and I put it in my Cherry wine and it tastes amazing right now. A little strong in Alc. still, but you taste cherry with an after taste of chocolate



Thanks Vernsgal! 1 bar of what? I bought the bricks of pure dark bakers chocolate and I'm not sure if each brick is the size of a Lindt chocolate bar, or are you referring to those bricks when you say bar? Sorry for all the questions! Just don't want to overpower the elderberry flavor. I spent a lot time waiting for these bushes to grow and produce me enough fruit for wine making lol


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## vernsgal

I used a full Lindt chocolate bar per gallon.Broke it into pieces and dropped it in the secondary.100 grams/3.5 oz are in a bar , the bakers chocolate should work the same.


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## ckvchestnut

vernsgal said:


> I used a full Lindt chocolate bar per gallon.Broke it into pieces and dropped it in the secondary.100 grams/3.5 oz are in a bar , the bakers chocolate should work the same.



Thanks this weight measurement should help me! Lol I wonder if there would be any difference in strength since mine is 100% pure vs 85%. I'll try with 100gms per gallon and leave it at that to see what I come up with! Thanks for your input! I appreciate it


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## GreginND

Just wondering if the chocolate is still good eating after you take it out of the wine?


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## vernsgal

I don't think I'd want to try


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## ckvchestnut

Well if the wine isn't spoiled I don't think the chocolate would be - however the kind I bought has no sugar in it so it doesn't taste good on its own beforehand anyways... It it liquified somewhat or still perfectly solid after?


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## vernsgal

It's more or less still solid.I think eating the chocolate afterwards would be like eating the fruit when you take it out of primary.Bleh!


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## GreginND

No, It's chocolate! Not fruit! I was wondering what the consistency was and how much chocolate flavor remains. Does it really get "bleh" like fruit? Or is it more like wine infused chocolate?


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## Runningwolf

Greg you're on the right track. Put it on ice cream.


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## vernsgal

Runningwolf said:


> Greg you're on the right track. Put it on ice cream.




Lol ,sorry I still have to stick with Bleh  But in all honesty it took me a long time to be able to taste my wine in the secondary.


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## Runningwolf

Ordered my extract bottles tonight even though I am a long ways away from bottling. One case (128) of 4oz Boston round amber bottles and caps.


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## joeswine

*Extracts at a glance*

WOLFMAN, unless you intend to sell extracts you could keep them in the ball jars forever, use what you need and when and if, you get around to replenishing it is so.


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## Sammyk

I keep our extracts in Ball jars too, no need to refrigerate.


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## Runningwolf

I've got too much class for that, you guys probably drink wine out of those jars too.  The real reason I ordered them is so I can make up gift packs for the holidays.


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## Sammyk

Dan don't YOU drink out of those Ball jars too? Damn, I thought we all did! No one ever told us we need "special" glasses.


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## Runningwolf

I never regifted a something so fast in my life. I suppose they would make a nice candle holder for a yankee candle.....naw not even a Yankee would do that.


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## joeswine

*Nice glass ware*

CAN YOU DOWNLOAD ME THAT SITE TO PURCHASE SOME OF THAT STEM WARE FOR MY DINNING ROOM.


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## Sammyk

From our canning days we sold cases of Ball jars. When our girls were young we had many fruit trees and a very large garden and froze or canned everything. Even made our own kraut in a crock back then.

Kept a few quarts, pints and half pints. Work wonderfully for putting lees in to draw off the wine on the top once it has settled. Some times we pour the wine off the top and just drink it and then the rest of the lees go down the drain Or sometimes it is just enough to top off a 750ml bottle. Actually they also work well for some left overs because you can clearly see what is in them in the fridge.


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## Stressbaby

Chocolate extract, gelatin filtered. Technique described here.
First try using cocoa powder was a complete failure.
This was 1/2 batch using one bar Lindt 85%, 1 cup water, 7g gelatin. No sugar.
The yield was a little low, but after all it was a 1/2 batch.
Smell and flavor are very strong and extract is crystal clear.


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## Sammyk

I am curious as to why not just add the Lindt to the secondary?


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## Stressbaby

The idea was to make an extract. I haven't added it to anything yet.

Does chocolate in the secondary cloud the wine? I haven't done it that way yet.

The idea with gelatin filtering is to get a clear extract that doesn't cloud the wine and gives some precision in adjustments. Maybe it is just me, but I feel like I have better control this way. See other thread for banana and coconut extracts done in this manner.

I don't claim this is the best way to do chocolate or anything else; just another tool in the toolbox.


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## jamesngalveston

It is so good to see a good sense of humor...Excellent pic runningwolf, can i get a set of 4...LOL. I will even pay shipping.......


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## vernsgal

Stressbaby said:


> The idea was to make an extract. I haven't added it to anything yet.
> 
> Does chocolate in the secondary cloud the wine? I haven't done it that way yet.
> 
> The idea with gelatin filtering is to get a clear extract that doesn't cloud the wine and gives some precision in adjustments. Maybe it is just me, but I feel like I have better control this way. See other thread for banana and coconut extracts done in this manner.
> 
> I don't claim this is the best way to do chocolate or anything else; just another tool in the toolbox.





Stressbaby said:


> Does chocolate in the secondary cloud the wine? I haven't done it that way yet.



I've put the chocolate straight in my secondary (Cherry wine) and didn't have any clearing issues.

I do like the extracts.Sometimes it's easier to add and you can use them for things other than wine.
(also I always seem to eat the chocolate before it makes it to my wine)


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## Runningwolf

Stressbaby said:


> Chocolate extract, gelatin filtered. Technique described here.
> First try using cocoa powder was a complete failure.
> This was 1/2 batch using one bar Lindt 85%, 1 cup water, 7g gelatin. No sugar.
> The yield was a little low, but after all it was a 1/2 batch.
> Smell and flavor are very strong and extract is crystal clear.



Stressbaby I like what you're trying to do. This is exactly what Joe always talks about "thinking outside..." Knowing most extracts are made with alcohol, I wonder if it would make any difference. I have actually gone to stores to see what the alcohol content is for each extract I make so I can replicate it.This would certainly help control the amount of flavor you add.



jamesngalveston said:


> It is so good to see a good sense of humor...Excellent pic runningwolf, can i get a set of 4...LOL. I will even pay shipping.......



James  Now I know how JohnT feels. Welches should be the only drink you're allowed to drink out of these monstrosities.


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## ffemt128

Well, with any luck my beans should be here today. I'm going to give this a shot...May also esperiment with adding a vanilla bean to some Cab to see how it affects the taste.


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## Runningwolf

Holy Smokes. The bottles already arrived. Ordered on the 7th and arrived today on the 11th. Now that is fast customer service, especially since I don't need them for another 10 weeks or so. 128 bottles and caps!!


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## Julie

How manny ozs are those bottles?


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## Runningwolf

4 oz Julie. I wanted 4 & 8 but to get a decent price I had to order by the case. I figured 4 was more practical especially for gifts.

And I don't have to scrape off any labels


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## Julie

I hear ya about the labels. They looked bigger than that and yes I agree on the 4 0z size for gifts.


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## Julie

I have a question, why would you add sugar to a lemon extract? The recipe I have is to add 1 tsp of sugar, one lemon and 1/2 cup of vodka.


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## Runningwolf

Julie this is the recipe I am using;
*
How to Make Homemade Lemon Extract
This recipe is based on the post “How to Making Baking Extracts” from the Denver Post.

Combine the zest from 1 lemon, 1 teaspoon sugar and ½ cup 80 proof (40% alcohol by weight) vodka. Don’t use the pith (white part) of the lemon- just stick to the yellow – as the pitch is bitter. I like to use my Microplane zester to get a beautiful, fine lemon zest.

lemon zest for homemade extract
Lemon zest with the Microplane Zester
lemon zest for making homemade lemon extract

Place zest, sugar and vodka in a lidded, glass jar. 

Shake the bottle once a day for at least a month, and you have homemade lemon extract. I usually aim for two to three months. The flavor will improve with age.

Strain the finished extract through cheesecloth, a coffee filter or a flour sack towel to filter and place in a dark bottle. Alternatively, just pour off a small portion for use and allow the rest to continue steeping.

Store in a cool, dark location*

We must be looking at the same recipe and guesss what I left out the sugar but I may add it now or wait. I just made up 2 gallons of simple syrup and I might just use that by taste at the end. My vanilla recipe also calls for sugar. I think it helps to smooth alcohol taste.


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## ffemt128

I found the lime zest I had zested about 6 months ago. My son was supposed to get me some everclear to make Lime Cello but was unable to. I had the zest of about 16 limes in a rubbermaid container with about 2 oz of vodka. I opened the container and could still smell the lime even after putting it back in the fridge. I'll have to add this to some alcohol and let it set for a while and see how it turns out.


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## Julie

Dan, I think we are looking at the same recipe, I went ahead and added the sugar. 

Doug, how about adding some to your skeeter pee that you use lime.

I started a batch of lemon, lime, almond and I had a pile of mint outside so I started one of those as well.


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## Runningwolf

Julie, I was thinking about almond. Can you share what you did?

What ideas do you guys have for the lime extract? I am thinking for Gin and Tonics. Now the big one...how about a teaspoon full (amount to be determined) in a Corona?


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## Julie

Here it is. I got this from commonsense.com. I ended up using 13 simply because by the time I scrapped off the brown skin I felt that I lost an almond in the process.

*How to Make Homemade Almond Extract*

Commercial almond extract is made with bitter almonds, which contain a cyanide precursor, which I don’t suggest brewing at home. In fact, some folks argue that you should use natural almond extract at all, only the synthetic. For my part, I’m more likely to trust nature than chemists, and I’ve read that the same pits and seeds that contain the cyanide precursors also contain anti-cancer compounds. I don’t go out of my way to consume extra seeds and pits, but I don’t worry if they occasionally get eaten.
These instructions are based on the E-how post “How to Make Your Own Almond Extract“. By now, you know the drill, but we’ll go through the steps and proportions.


http://www.commonsensehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/almonds-for-extract.jpg​

*Use 12 whole, raw skinless almonds and one pint 80 proof (40% alcohol by weight) vodka for every pint of extract that you want to make. *(For one cup of extract, use 6 almonds, and so on.) My almonds had been in the freezer for while, so I used more. The skins will make the extract more bitter, so it’s been to opt for skinless.
*Chop almonds and place almonds and vodka in a lidded, glass jar. *More surface area means more flavor transfer from almonds to alcohol.
*Shake the bottle once a day for at least a month, and you have homemade almond extract. *I usually aim for two to three months. The flavor will improve with age.
*Strain the finished extract through cheesecloth, a coffee filter or a flour sack towel to filter and place in a dark bottle.* Alternatively, just pour off a small portion for use and allow the rest to continue steeping.
*Store in a cool, dark location. *This extract will not taste as strong as commercial almond extracts, so you may want to make a small batch and see if you like it before making it in quantity.


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## ffemt128

Julie said:


> Dan, I think we are looking at the same recipe, I went ahead and added the sugar.
> 
> Doug, how about adding some to your skeeter pee that you use lime.
> 
> I started a batch of lemon, lime, almond and I had a pile of mint outside so I started one of those as well.


 


Runningwolf said:


> Julie, I was thinking about almond. Can you share what you did?
> 
> What ideas do you guys have for the lime extract? I am thinking for Gin and Tonics. Now the big one...how about a teaspoon full (amount to be determined) in a Corona?


 
The lime in a gin and tonic or Corona would probably be good. I would need to dilute this down. As I said, it was the zest from about 16 limes in only 2-3 oz of vodka. I did this as I figured the alcohol and the fridge would preserve the lime zest until I got everclear. Never did get the everclear. This almost got tossed several times but I managed to save it.


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## Runningwolf

Doug, I take it you bought a bag at Sams Club as I did. I zested the entire bag and split the zest in half and then put each half into a quart jar and added the spirits.


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## ffemt128

Runningwolf said:


> Doug, I take it you bought a bag at Sams Club as I did. I zested the entire bag and split the zest in half and then put each half into a quart jar and added the spirits.


 
Good deal Dan, I'll probably add the existing zest to a pint jar and fill with spirits as well. I have the smaller mason jars from when I made Jelly 2 years ago. 

I did start a vanilla extract. I used just over 2 oz of beans in a pint. Smells wonderful already and it was started on Friday.


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## joeswine

*Zesting in the beggining*

lots of fun and very tasty...


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