# Wine kits on sale



## Brian55 (Apr 27, 2019)

Starting this thread to let everyone know when a site has wine kits for sale at a competitive rate. Please post here when you come across a good deal. 

Thanks!


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## mocha (Apr 30, 2019)

I got an email for 40% off warehouse sale from label peelers today, I ordered more kits!! Wine expert eclipse kits went from 170 bucks to 110, not bad but not free shipping. I got 3 kits and paid 40 bucks for shipping but still worth it.


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## Brian55 (Apr 30, 2019)

mocha said:


> I got an email for 40% off warehouse sale from label peelers today, I ordered more kits!! Wine expert eclipse kits went from 170 bucks to 110, not bad but not free shipping. I got 3 kits and paid 40 bucks for shipping but still worth it.


Around $110 plus shipping is their regular price on Eclipse kits, they're always the best for WE kits. 40% off is good for everything else.


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## mocha (Apr 30, 2019)

Brian55 said:


> Around $110 plus shipping is their regular price on Eclipse kits, they're always the best for WE kits. 40% off is good for everything else.


Really? They had their eclipse series as 160 to 175, then I checked a few other sites to be sure they didnt raise the prices for the sale, I got stags leap merlot and NZ marlborough sauv blanc for 110 each and other sites had those for 175. I thought I was making out great on this deal! Either way I'll be making some great wine!!!


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## ras2018 (Apr 30, 2019)

Eclipse has a MAP. Once you add to cart, the price goes down significantly.


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## Brian55 (Apr 30, 2019)

mocha said:


> Really? They had their eclipse series as 160 to 175, then I checked a few other sites to be sure they didnt raise the prices for the sale, I got stags leap merlot and NZ marlborough sauv blanc for 110 each and other sites had those for 175. I thought I was making out great on this deal! Either way I'll be making some great wine!!!


You did just fine. You're not likely to find WE Eclipse kits any cheaper than Label Peelers.


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## skyfire322 (Apr 30, 2019)

MoreWine has a 10% site wide sale until Thursday.


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## LouisCKpasteur (Apr 30, 2019)

Someone can find an outfit that can beat LP let me know. I doubt it can be done. When I started in this hobby, I was going to a local shop 7 miles from my house. Now I have wine kits fed-exed to my job (so they're not sitting on a porch in the heat or cold) for about 40 bucks less per kit. I'm near Ann Arbor, and I'm not top fond of the state of Ohio. LP has given me something nice to say about the Buckeye state.


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## jgmann67 (May 1, 2019)

LouisCKpasteur said:


> Someone can find an outfit that can beat LP let me know. I doubt it can be done. When I started in this hobby, I was going to a local shop 7 miles from my house. Now I have wine kits fed-exed to my job (so they're not sitting on a porch in the heat or cold) for about 40 bucks less per kit. I'm near Ann Arbor, and I'm not top fond of the state of Ohio. LP has given me something nice to say about the Buckeye state.



Though I don’t mind Ohio, I agree with everything else here.


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## crushday (May 2, 2019)

Midwest Supplies: 
*BUY ONE MASTER VINTNER RECIPE KIT, GET A SECOND 25% OFF:*

Add two Master Vintner Wine Recipe Kits to your cart.
Enter promo code *VINTNER* into the promo code field on the shopping cart page.


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## VCN (May 3, 2019)

Not a sale per say but i thought some here would like to know that cellar craft has released an unexpected additional passport series red this month. “Grand red” cab merlot Syrah blend from the north coast of California. This kit comes with grape skins 60g med 60g dark chips along with 30g oak cubes. Ec1118 and rc212 yeast provided. Sulphite and sorbate still separate (unlike the combined packs that are being phased in)


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## Brian55 (May 3, 2019)

VCN said:


> Not a sale per say but i thought some here would like to know that cellar craft has released an unexpected additional passport series red this month. “Grand red” cab merlot Syrah blend from the north coast of California. This kit comes with grape skins 60g med 60g dark chips along with 30g oak cubes. Ec1118 and rc212 yeast provided.


Do you know of any place selling Passport series kits? FVW was the only place I know of.


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## pillswoj (May 3, 2019)

A link or something on this "Grand Red"?


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## VCN (May 3, 2019)

pillswoj said:


> A link or something on this "Grand Red"?



Not many sites have it listed, I own a home brew store in Ontario and started one for myself today. Here is a link to the information on it from another home brew store in Canada
http://winekitzsaskatoon.ca/limited-releases

I should add retailers we’re just notified of this release last week and it was completely unexpected so info should roll out soon.


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## VCN (May 3, 2019)

Brian55 said:


> Do you know of any place selling Passport series kits? FVW was the only place I know of.



Sorry I’m located in Ontario don’t think I can be much help. I’d imagine anything north of the boarder would be crazy on shipping


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## Boatboy24 (May 4, 2019)

VCN said:


> Not a sale per say but i thought some here would like to know that cellar craft has released an unexpected additional passport series red this month. “Grand red” cab merlot Syrah blend from the north coast of California. This kit comes with grape skins 60g med 60g dark chips along with 30g oak cubes. Ec1118 and rc212 yeast provided. Sulphite and sorbate still separate (unlike the combined packs that are being phased in)



If this is the same "Grand Red" they did a few years back, it is worth making.


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## ras2018 (Oct 30, 2019)

MoreWine is running a deal. SAVEMORE is the code. 
Save $20 on orders over $125
Save $30 on orders over $175
Save $45 on orders over $250

Got myself the CC Amarone for $149 shipped. Can’t complain.


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## bkisel (Oct 31, 2019)

ras2018 said:


> MoreWine is running a deal. SAVEMORE is the code.
> Save $20 on orders over $125
> Save $30 on orders over $175
> Save $45 on orders over $250
> ...


Thanks for the heads-up. I've done business with them before so its worth me checking it out.


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## ras2018 (Dec 7, 2019)

MoreWine is running 15% off for anyone looking to buy Cellar Craft.


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## crushday (Dec 7, 2019)

ras2018 said:


> MoreWine is running 15% off for anyone looking to buy Cellar Craft.


Code?


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## ras2018 (Dec 7, 2019)

DEAL7


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## Machinist Nick (Dec 7, 2019)

Not an online sale, but brewers direct in Winnipeg (sergeant ave) has festa juice pails on for between $55 to $85.
I just picked up a fresh shiraz and a muscato for $65 each


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## Brian55 (Dec 7, 2019)

crushday said:


> Code?



DEAL7 for kits

https://morewinemaking.com/category/12-deals-christmas.html?ref=1A


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## Brian55 (Jan 17, 2020)

25% off and free shipping on RJS kits. Promo code 25RJS

https://www.homebrewohio.com/wine/recipe-kits/6-gallon-en-primeur/


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## Brian55 (Jan 17, 2020)

Brian55 said:


> 25% off and free shipping on RJS kits. Promo code 25RJS
> 
> https://www.homebrewohio.com/wine/recipe-kits/6-gallon-en-primeur/



Promo code works for Meglioli kits as well. $150 shipped. 

All RJS kits are included, not just En-Primeur. Picked up an EP Super Tuscan for $120 shipped


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## StreetGlide (Jan 17, 2020)

Thank you.


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## ras2018 (Jan 17, 2020)

Brian55 said:


> Promo code works for Meglioli kits as well. $150 shipped.
> 
> All RJS kits are included, not just En-Primeur. Picked up an EP Super Tuscan for $120 shipped



Sucks that they don’t have the Amorosso in stock. 150 is awesome for these kits. Going to snag a Nebbiolo.


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## Brian55 (Jan 17, 2020)

ras2018 said:


> Sucks that they don’t have the Amorosso in stock. 150 is awesome for these kits. Going to snag a Nebbiolo.


They did have at least one. I guess I beat you to it!


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## ras2018 (Jan 17, 2020)

Brian55 said:


> They did have at least one. I guess I beat you to it!



Arrrggghhh!!! :-D


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## StreetGlide (Jan 17, 2020)

Bought a Finger Lakes Riesling. I’ve been to the winery/vineyard it was sourced from and they are known for great rieslings. Thinking of grabbing the Italian Primitivo also.


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## geek (Jan 17, 2020)

StreetGlide said:


> Bought a Finger Lakes Riesling. I’ve been to the winery/vineyard it was sourced from and they are known for great rieslings. Thinking of grabbing the Italian Primitivo also.



How much total?


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## jsbeckton (Jan 17, 2020)

Grabbed an Amarone Classico for $134 shipped. This remains the best kit I’ve ever made and likely the only one I’ll ever make again now that I’ve moved on to all grape wine.


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## StreetGlide (Jan 18, 2020)

geek said:


> How much total?



$300. 149.99 each free shipping for the Meglioli kits.


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## jgmann67 (Jan 18, 2020)

All the ones I wanted are gone. Saddness.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 18, 2020)

Besides twenty bucks, what's the difference between the Italian Amarone Classico and the Italian Amarone Style?


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## Brian55 (Jan 18, 2020)

Boatboy24 said:


> Besides twenty bucks, what's the difference between the Italian Amarone Classico and the Italian Amarone Style?


18L with dried skins vs. 16L with wet skins.


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## StreetGlide (Feb 13, 2020)

Homebrew Ohio is running a 14% off all kits for a Valentines Day Sale 
Use code - wine14
Just ordered EP Australian Cab and Cru Intl Pinot Noir


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## bstnh1 (Feb 14, 2020)

Label Peelers has 40% off wine kits. Vintner's Reserve Chardonnay at Ohio Homebrew is $89.99 with free shipping. At Labelpeelers it's $58.62 plus shipping. Even with shipping at $20, Labelpeelers is still the better buy.


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## bstnh1 (Feb 14, 2020)

Has anyone tried the WE Vintner's Reserve Trinity Red or Trinity White? Any good?


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## StreetGlide (Feb 14, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Label Peelers has 40% off wine kits. Vintner's Reserve Chardonnay at Ohio Homebrew is $89.99 with free shipping. At Labelpeelers it's $58.62 plus shipping. Even with shipping at $20, Labelpeelers is still the better buy.



Thank you. Wish they carried RJS


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## Brian55 (Feb 14, 2020)

StreetGlide said:


> Thank you. Wish they carried RJS


Home Brew Ohio carries RJS. 14% off and free shipping through the 17th. Code: WINE14


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## 1d10t (Feb 14, 2020)

StreetGlide said:


> Thank you. Wish they carried RJS


They are close to the WE distributor. They don't have to stock it, just pick it up when someone orders it. That's why they tell store pickups not to show up until notified. That's how can afford to have the prices they do. Markup on WE kits is pretty huge. I've found the wholesale pricing online leaked by the distributor.


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## Tatmia (Feb 14, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Label Peelers has 40% off wine kits. Vintner's Reserve Chardonnay at Ohio Homebrew is $89.99 with free shipping. At Labelpeelers it's $58.62 plus shipping. Even with shipping at $20, Labelpeelers is still the better buy.




(replied to the wrong post)


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## Tatmia (Feb 14, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Has anyone tried the WE Vintner's Reserve Trinity Red or Trinity White? Any good?



I've made both. My Trinity Red is 9 months old right now, I want to give it a year before I bottle it. But, for the price, I'm very happy with the few tastes I've allowed myself. I made it using BM4X4 yeast.

I made my Trinity White with QA23 yeast. Almost all of it was gone by 9 months, I'm hoarding the last 5 bottles as I won't have an open carboy to make it again anytime soon. As soon as I finish everything in rotation I'm ordering another and if I had the equipment I'd make a double batch. It's amazing, everyone who's tried it loves it. Even my parents, who don't like white wine, asked for another bottle so they could have it again.


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## bstnh1 (Feb 15, 2020)

Tatmia said:


> I've made both. My Trinity Red is 9 months old right now, I want to give it a year before I bottle it. But, for the price, I'm very happy with the few tastes I've allowed myself. I made it using BM4X4 yeast.
> 
> I made my Trinity White with QA23 yeast. Almost all of it was gone by 9 months, I'm hoarding the last 5 bottles as I won't have an open carboy to make it again anytime soon. As soon as I finish everything in rotation I'm ordering another and if I had the equipment I'd make a double batch. It's amazing, everyone who's tried it loves it. Even my parents, who don't like white wine, asked for another bottle so they could have it again.


Thank you. I was thinking about making the Trinity White, so guess I'll give it a try.


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## Rocky (Feb 15, 2020)

StreetGlide said:


> Thank you. Wish they carried RJS



I live in central Ohio about 135 miles from Ravenna which is where Label Peelers is located. I have had items shipped and I have picked up items at their site. I have discussed their offering RJS products with them and they tell me it is RJS that is the hitch. They will not give Label Peelers their line to distribute due to another RJS distributor in the area.

Also, I have not ordered from Home Brew Ohio but I have started an ordered which I deleted when I noticed that they charged sales tax on kits. Label Peelers does not charge sales tax on their kits. I am not sure if wine kits are taxable in Ohio but it seems like they should not be as they are a "food" item and food is not taxable.


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## StreetGlide (Feb 15, 2020)

Rocky said:


> I live in central Ohio about 135 miles from Ravenna which is where Label Peelers is located. I have had items shipped and I have picked up items at their site. I have discussed their offering RJS products with them and they tell me it is RJS that is the hitch. They will not give Label Peelers their line to distribute due to another RJS distributor in the area.
> 
> Also, I have not ordered from Home Brew Ohio but I have started an ordered which I deleted when I noticed that they charged sales tax on kits. Label Peelers does not charge sales tax on their kits. I am not sure if wine kits are taxable in Ohio but it seems like they should not be as they are a "food" item and food is not taxable.



I have ordered fro HBO many times. In fact they have pretty much become my go to. Really fast service unlike and their prices to me here in Pa are very good. 
It does seem Lablepeelers is also a great place is your looking for WE.


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## WINEBAYOU (Feb 15, 2020)

bstnh1 said:


> Has anyone tried the WE Vintner's Reserve Trinity Red or Trinity White? Any good?


I've made multiples of both of those kits. They both turned out to be pretty good.


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## jgmann67 (Feb 22, 2020)

Any good sales on RJS? I need to start my summer wine this month and, we’ll, I’m a cheap bastard.


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## dmguptill (Feb 22, 2020)

jgmann67 said:


> Any good sales on RJS? I need to start my summer wine this month and, we’ll, I’m a cheap bastard.


I was thinking the same thing! About RJS, of course, not the other part...


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## jbo_c (Feb 23, 2020)

Y’all might try Hearts Home Brew for RJS stuff. Not sure what shipping is like but they have the best prices I’ve seen in store.

I buy a few every time I’m close.

Jbo


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## StreetGlide (Feb 23, 2020)

I have found that once shipping is added most places on line are higher then Home Brew Ohio. I been using them for just about all my RJS


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## jgmann67 (Feb 23, 2020)

I ordered one from my LHBS for the same price as Northern. It’s kind of a thing with them. If the get close to matching what I’d pay online (they don’t have to beat it), they get my business.


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## StreetGlide (Feb 23, 2020)

jgmann67 said:


> I ordered one from my LHBS for the same price as Northern. It’s kind of a thing with them. If the get close to matching what I’d pay online (they don’t have to beat it), they get my business.



I agree 100% with you, I’d give my LHBS my business also to help them stay there. My problem is they don’t carry RJS and only carry WE.


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## StreetGlide (Feb 25, 2020)

Just ordered from Hearts Homebrew for the first time. I could not find an RJS EP Super Tuscan in stock anywhere and they had 2 of them.


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## Brian55 (Feb 26, 2020)

StreetGlide said:


> Just ordered from Hearts Homebrew for the first time. I could not find an RJS EP Super Tuscan in stock anywhere and they had 2 of them.


How was the shipping cost?


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## StreetGlide (Feb 26, 2020)

Brian55 said:


> How was the shipping cost?



It was $35 so my price delivered was $155. $4 cheaper then HBO who unfortunately did not have it in stock anyway. The company we are not allowed to mention had it advertised for immediate delivery but like everything else with them, they didn’t. 
I heard so much good about this kit I’m just glad to have one coming.


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## Wolfhound (Feb 26, 2020)

StreetGlide said:


> It was $35 so my price delivered was $155. $4 cheaper then HBO who unfortunately did not have it in stock anyway. The company we are not allowed to mention had it advertised for immediate delivery but like everything else with them, they didn’t.
> I heard so much good about this kit I’m just glad to have one coming.



How do I figure out which company this is so I can avoid them?


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## Brian55 (Feb 26, 2020)

StreetGlide said:


> It was $35 so my price delivered was $155. $4 cheaper then HBO who unfortunately did not have it in stock anyway. The company we are not allowed to mention had it advertised for immediate delivery but like everything else with them, they didn’t.
> I heard so much good about this kit I’m just glad to have one coming.


Not a bad deal. This is definitely one of the better kits available. Take your time making and aging it, and enjoy!


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## Brian55 (Feb 26, 2020)

Wolfhound said:


> How do I figure out which company this is so I can avoid them?


They are located in FL. They have changed hands since the issue that made them unmentionable, but they still have some issues to resolve.


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## StreetGlide (Feb 26, 2020)

Brian55 said:


> Not a bad deal. This is definitely one of the better kits available. Take your time making and aging it, and enjoy!



Planning BM 4x4, a 6 week EM with perhaps a dose of FT Rouge. Let it settle a few months. Barrel age to taste and let it go to sleep for a while


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## ras2018 (Feb 26, 2020)

30 off $170+ at MoreWine. Code is EZ30


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## geek (Feb 26, 2020)

It's funny how these companies throw what appears like a big discount code in your face, but then you look at their listed price is way over what many others offer, o they inflate the list price to then give you a discount so the price is actually what it should be, clever.


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## dmguptill (Feb 26, 2020)

geek said:


> It's funny how these companies throw what appears like a big discount code in your face, but then you look at their listed price is way over what many others offer, o they inflate the list price to then give you a discount so the price is actually what it should be, clever.


Yeah and some places have higher price but free shipping, others have lower price but you pay for shipping. Makes it a little confusing to compare. Ultimately I think I prefer the latter, a little more transparent what you're actually paying for.


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## StreetGlide (Feb 26, 2020)

geek said:


> It's funny how these companies throw what appears like a big discount code in your face, but then you look at their listed price is way over what many others offer, o they inflate the list price to then give you a discount so the price is actually what it should be, clever.



Like was stated, most of the time I see an inflated price it’s usually because shipping is included. You never see those low prices and free shipping, then it would really be a sale. HBO had a real good RJS sale that was 25% off and free shipping a couple months ago. Wish I’d of stocked up even more then I did


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## geek (Feb 27, 2020)

Looks like LP has a sale for those who like the cheapo Island Mist summer drinks, BOGO....very good prices.


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## Brian55 (Mar 19, 2020)

Ohio Home Brew has 10% off through the 23rd with code: BREWING10

Not the best deal, but better than nothing.


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## Mike Parisi (Mar 20, 2020)

Just bought a kit from the Musto Wine Grape Company. Great price on the Mosti Mondiale AllJuice Nero D'Avola. $85.00 plus shipping. Last one of these I bought was from another company for $135.00. Shipping to Arizona from the east coast was really expensive, but worth it. Ends up being just over $5 / bottle. I made this one, my first ever wine making attempt, in October and I really like it. Drank Nero D'Avola a lot on our trip to Sicily.


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## rustbucket (May 22, 2020)

#ithink2020 (I hope I did that hash tag thing right) mentioned Wine Lovers in one of the threads. Being curious, I googled them and navigated to their website. The company is a wine kit seller that retails in kits under their own label. They happen to be having a sale, $10 off low-end kits so a $60 kit now sells for $50 including shipping.

It's hard to figure out the amount of juice concentrate that you're getting in the kits. The only quantifiable designation in their listings is a PABV percent. Initially I took that to be the alcohol level in the finished wine but I'm not sure since they have numbers like 7% for a Sangiovese $50 kit, 11.5% for the $55 kit, and 13.5% for the $90 kit. According to the nutrition labels, the kits are packed in Canada.


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## bstnh1 (May 22, 2020)

rustbucket said:


> #ithink2020 (I hope I did that hash tag thing right) mentioned Wine Lovers in one of the threads. Being curious, I googled them and navigated to their website. The company is a wine kit seller that retails in kits under their own label. They happen to be having a sale, $10 off low-end kits so a $60 kit now sells for $50 including shipping.
> 
> It's hard to figure out the amount of juice concentrate that you're getting in the kits. The only quantifiable designation in their listings is a PABV percent. Initially I took that to be the alcohol level in the finished wine but I'm not sure since they have numbers like 7% for a Sangiovese $50 kit, 11.5% for the $55 kit, and 13.5% for the $90 kit. According to the nutrition labels, the kits are packed in Canada.


It looks like the $50 Merlot kit I looked at is about 1.3 gallons based on the serving size and number of servings mentioned in the nutritional info.


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## sour_grapes (May 22, 2020)

rustbucket said:


> #ithink2020 (I hope I did that hash tag thing right)



Not quite. I am repeating here solely in case it helps Ithink2020. You use an "at-sign,", not an octothorpe, like so: @ithink2020


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## rustbucket (May 23, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> Not quite. I am repeating here solely in case it helps Ithink2020. You use an "at-sign,", not an octothorpe, like so: @ithink2020



Thanks, Sour Grapes! I was pretty sure I got that wrong. Also, you taught me a new word, octothorpe. I had only known them as hash tags.

Getting back to Wine Lovers kits, as I perused their website, I suspected that the kit listings were kits with high juice concentrations and that caused me to reflect on recent changes going on in the kit making industry. WinExpert adopted MAP pricing and, within the past few months, increased the juice concentration in their kits. Are such changes a sign of things to come in the wine kit making industry? 

I used to think of highly concentrated wine juice kits as cheap kits that result in a drinkable, early maturing, table wine, but not one with the complexity needed to compete with commercial wines costing $10 on up. Now I'm wondering if companies like WinExpert and Wine Lovers have found a way to achieve that same level of wine complexity potential using highly concentrated kits. 

I don't know anything about Wine Lovers but I've considered WinExpert to be a respected wine kit manufacturer that wouldn't jeopardize market share without knowing that such changes will result in a better wine than the kits being sold by competitors. 

So far, Spagnols has not made these changes so many of us are pledging to change our WinExpert kit purchases to that company. But WinExpert's marketing department would have done market studies that projected that knee-jerk reaction. They must, therefore, be very confident that they have developed a juice concentration process that produces superior wines. It will take a few years of customer wine making results to know if they got it right.


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## 1d10t (May 23, 2020)

I worked for a major manufacturer of large appliances. One parts department employee complained they were losing sales because they sold at 10X the price guy down the street sold for and asked if they could lower their price to compete. The response? "Can you guarantee you will sell 10X more if we cut the price 10X?" 

With Medicare you have to choose a new drug supplier every year. Last year the plan I was in went up 4X at the end of the year. The same company offered another pretty much identical plan for what I was currently paying. They were just hoping people would just not bother changing.

Did we ever know WE high $ kits weren't reconstituted from the same base juices but marketing knew there was a perceived difference and could charge more buy pre-adding a little water to the 'premium' kits?

Around here the only wine kits the locals carry is WE because that is what they can go pickup at LD Carlson's. There was never a large choice in market for quality kits to start with. If you search you can find LD's wholesale price list leaked online (from their own site). WE has close to 100% markup. That's why Label Peelers have better prices. They are close to LD's. They don't have to stock anything. You order it and they go pick it up and do a quick turn around.


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## Brian55 (Oct 15, 2020)

Home Brew Ohio, 15% off everything using promo code "SHOP15"






Home Brew Ohio


Home Brew Ohio is your complete store for home brewing and wine making supplies.




www.homebrewohio.com


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## Brian55 (Nov 21, 2020)

Home Brew Ohio, 15% off, promo code "HAPPY9" Valid 11/21 - 11/22

www.homebrewohio.com


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## my wine (Nov 22, 2020)

This thread is a great idea. I don't need more kits at the moment as I have 2 sitting ready to be made. The last one I bought was a Wine Lovers Grenache medium body for $44 including delivery. That was with a 20% off coupon. Normally $55 including delivery.


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## Rocky (Nov 22, 2020)

my wine said:


> This thread is a great idea. I don't need more kits at the moment as I have 2 sitting ready to be made. The last one I bought was a Wine Lovers Grenache medium body for $44 including delivery. That was with a 20% off coupon. Normally $55 including delivery.


May I know where you bought the wine kit for $44 including delivery? Was it in Ohio? Did the $44 include sales tax?


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## my wine (Nov 22, 2020)

wineloversonline.com 

The medium body kits are $55 and they sent me a 20% off coupon. It arrived in several days, no additional shipping cost and no tax. I'm frankly not sure how they do it all at that price. The heavy bodied kits are $90 and have 16 liters of base juice. I have a Pino Noir kit of that on my bench. looking forward to that one. I finished a Merlot that turned out very well.


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## joeswine (Nov 22, 2020)

And such is the saga of Tweaking cheap wine kits, we're thinking outside the box counts and less is more resides.
No matter what the style or price of the kit it all comes down to You.


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## Brian55 (Nov 26, 2020)

Home Brew Ohio, 15% off of everything, promo code "THANKFUL2020" Valid now - 12/2

www.homebrewohio.com


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## Wineforthewin (Nov 26, 2020)

Brian55 said:


> Home Brew Ohio, 15% off of everything, promo code "THANKFUL2020" Valid now - 12/2
> 
> www.homebrewohio.com


Great! Grabbed an En Primeur Italian Amarone Classico kit for $153 after discount (free shipping).


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## Brian55 (Nov 26, 2020)

Wineforthewin said:


> Great! Grabbed an En Primeur Italian Amarone Classico kit for $153 after discount (free shipping).


That was one I purchased as well. Short the water a bit, EM for at least a month, and let it age for 3 years or more before you start tasting the occasional bottle.


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## Brian55 (Nov 26, 2020)

Brian55 said:


> That was one I purchased as well. Short the water a bit, EM for at least a month, and let it age for 3 years or more before you start tasting the occasional bottle.


Don't be afraid to over-oak it as well. within reason.


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## Khristyjeff (Nov 28, 2020)

I've got a lot of Italian style wines going so I purchased the *En Primeur Winery Series - Winemaker's Trio Red. *We're drinking their Trio White now and really enjoy it so decided to go for it. Thanks @Brian55 for the tip!


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## MHSKIBUM (Apr 12, 2021)

Occasionally Costco puts its Argentia Ridge wines on sale. I bought a double (60-bottle) kit of Chardonnay and another of Merlot in-store for $64 CND each. That's about 50 US bucks for a 60-bottle kit.
I've been making the Argentia Ridge wines for some time. The initial 6-gallon batches I made precisely following the supplier's instructions weren't awful but I wouldn't serve it to anyone who I wanted to keep as a friend.
I now make them in five-gallon rather than the six-gallon batches and find that they produce acceptable every day wine equal to a $10 commercial bottle.
Since participating in this blog I've been experimenting with adding, depending on the wine variety, sugar, raisins, dried grape skins, tannin, glycerine and different yeasts.
The Chardonnay is pretty good just with the reduced water content. The kit comes with oak. I found my tweaks either did little or made the wine worse except, to my tastes, when I added a 1/2 cup of sugar and 1/2 cup of raisins. Others couldn't tell the difference.
The reds are a different story. The Argentia Ridge Merlot is my least favourite red but at that price? The addition of dried grape skins made the Merlot a much better wine, richer colour and to my taste a deeper plum flavour.
As you've guessed by now, I'm always looking for a bargain. The dried grape skins cost almost $15 with tax. Thanks to Joeswine's suggestion I tried adding black table grape skins.
Since I was already in Costco, I bought a $5 bunch of black sable grapes, destemmed them and crushed them. I drank the juice with my breakfast and plopped the grape skins with a bit of residual pulp into my fermenter with the kit ingredients just before adding the yeast.
It's now cooking in its second ferment. I was astounded that the flavour jumped out from a small sampling without significant sweetness nor any harshness in a more profound way than the dried grape skins. I am super eager to see how this batch turns out.


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## Reign (May 8, 2021)

The oak chips plugged up my syphon hose 3 times. I do have the cap on to stop it, but it didn't help. I lost some wine due to mixing up the trub on the bottom. How do I avoid that in the future?


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## jgmann67 (May 8, 2021)

Reign said:


> The oak chips plugged up my syphon hose 3 times. I do have the cap on to stop it, but it didn't help. I lost some wine due to mixing up the trub on the bottom. How do I avoid that in the future?



Good morning Reign. 
There are a few things I’d suggest that will at least minimize your issues here.

First, you want your wine perfectly settled when you rack it from the vessel (fermenter, carboy, whatever). I have an AIO so I put my sending vessel of wine on the floor and use a rolled bath towel to keep the vessel still and stable. Let it sit there undisturbed for about an hour before you start racking. Use that time to make sure your receiving vessel and all your tools are sanitized. Then start your rack. This will also minimize the amount of wine loss to your Lees at the bottom. 

Next, rest the head of your racking cane at the lowest point in the vessel without punching into to.

Finally, if you’re still having issues, use a brew bag or something similar over your racking cane. I’m not a big fan of of this one. But, it might help.

Really, if you’re using gravity alone to rack your wine, you’ll probably always have the little frustrations of the cane stopping up or it going too slow. And, if you don’t have one, a vacuum system like the AIO will make allof this a very pleasant experience


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## Reign (May 8, 2021)

Thank You for your reply.


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## Brian55 (May 8, 2021)

Reign said:


> The oak chips plugged up my syphon hose 3 times. I do have the cap on to stop it, but it didn't help. I lost some wine due to mixing up the trub on the bottom. How do I avoid that in the future?


Always put oak chips and skins (if included) in a muslin bag. Don't worry about picking up a bit of trub, each subsequent racking will have less and less.


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## Brian55 (Nov 16, 2021)

Home Brew Ohio has 15% off of everything, today through the 19th. No coupon code needed, it's automatically applied to your cart. Free shipping over $50. Home Brew Ohio


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## bstnh1 (Nov 16, 2021)

LabelPeelers has 35-50% off. No free shipping, though.


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## Brian55 (Nov 16, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> LabelPeelers has 35-50% off. No free shipping, though.


Nice! I just wish they carried RJS. Although now that FW kits are out, it doesn't matter nearly as much.


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## Bmd2k1 (Nov 26, 2021)

Any great Black Friday sales??

Cheers!


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## Dan M (Nov 27, 2021)

I keep getting sale Black Friday emails from this place: Award-Winning Red & White Wine Making Kits – WINE LOVERS (wineloversonline.com) 

The kits look interesting, but I've not bought anything from them. Does anyone have experience with these kits? Just curious...


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## Khristyjeff (Nov 27, 2021)

I've used the cheap and mid-price kits that are great for tweaking. I just noticed them offering the higher end kits which I have not tried, but wound't hesitate to try them.


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## Bmd2k1 (Jan 30, 2022)

RJS Cru Select kits are currently 15% off at Midwest RJS Cru Select Wine Recipe Kits – Midwest Supplies

Snagged my Sangiovese & the Cali Red Blend(Cab, Syrah & Zin)

Cheers ✌


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## She’sgonnakillme (Feb 15, 2022)

Some great sale prices on frozen must kits and even some blends, Free shipping too!









2020 Buckets Archives - Grape Must







www.grapemust.com


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## BigDaveK (Feb 16, 2022)

www.homebrewohio.com has a number of kits on sale. Free shipping over 59.99.


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## fwdevoe (Feb 17, 2022)

I made a Cab, heavy body from them. Very very disappointed in the finished wine. Had NO body and did not taste like a cab. Looking at the bottled wine, can easily see through it, and I followed their instructions to the T.


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## fwdevoe (Feb 17, 2022)

fwdevoe said:


> I made a Cab, heavy body from them. Very very disappointed in the finished wine. Had NO body and did not taste like a cab. Looking at the bottled wine, can easily see through it, and I followed their instructions to the T.


It was wine lovers on line.


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## oppyland (Feb 17, 2022)

fwdevoe said:


> It was wine lovers on line.


I've made several Wine Lovers (ABC Cork) kits. They're fine for the money, but I definitely wouldn't make one without some tweaks (see @joeswine excellent thread).


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## VinesnBines (Feb 17, 2022)

Are the Wine Lovers kits produced by ABC Cork? Fontana kits are the same as the ABC Cork. I've been buying the Fontana off Amazon and now some directly from ABC Cork. 

With any of these cheap kits (Wine Lovers, Fontana or ABC Cork) they deficiently need tweaking and amending. With the tweaks they can be nice table wines.

Adding body can be a challenge. I bought this Liqui-Gum | MoreWine liquigum to add mouthfeel to thin wines. It does help.


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## fwdevoe (Feb 17, 2022)

Best way r


VinesnBines said:


> Are the Wine Lovers kits produced by ABC Cork? Fontana kits are the same as the ABC Cork. I've been buying the Fontana off Amazon and now some directly from ABC Cork.
> 
> With any of these cheap kits (Wine Lovers, Fontana or ABC Cork) they deficiently need tweaking and amending. With the tweaks they can be nice table wines.
> 
> Adding body can be a challenge. I bought this Liqui-Gum | MoreWine liquigum to add mouthfeel to thin wines. It does help.


Best way I know of to add body is add grape skins during fermentation.


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## oppyland (Feb 17, 2022)

VinesnBines said:


> Are the Wine Lovers kits produced by ABC Cork? Fontana kits are the same as the ABC Cork. I've been buying the Fontana off Amazon and now some directly from ABC Cork.


Yes, same kits AFAIK.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 17, 2022)

VinesnBines said:


> Adding body can be a challenge. I bought this Liqui-Gum | MoreWine liquigum to add mouthfeel to thin wines. It does help.


I add shredded oak or oak chips during fermentation, and glycerin at bottling. Since I make liqueurs, I buy glycerin by the gallon, which is less than 1/4 the price of the little bottle from the LHBS.



fwdevoe said:


> Best way I know of to add body is add grape skins during fermentation.


Also add fermentation enzymes if using skin packs. I added ScottZyme ColorPro to my FWK's in November, and the color is amazing and the body is surprisingly good for a young wine.


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## heatherd (Feb 17, 2022)

Label Peelers has Finer Wine Kits, all of which are affordable compared to other kits. I have only done the Forte series but they taste fabulous and I think I'll only make their kits from now on. They have two fruit wine kits, and a bunch of reds, and they're working on the whites. I like that the Forte series comes with all your chems, a yeast starter, double skins, and a seed pack for $127-135 + shipping.





Finer Wine Kits | Label Peelers, Inc.


Finer Wine Kits sold exclusively at Labelpeelers.com. Try one for yourself today!




labelpeelers.com




Here are videos about them: Forte Bordeaux Style Finer Wine Kit


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## Bmd2k1 (Mar 15, 2022)

Label Peelers has FW Tavola kits on sale for 35% off.


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## She’sgonnakillme (Mar 15, 2022)

At those prices (same as the WE Classics), not sure why anyone would want to buy anything but a FWK, (if your looking for a medium to lower end kit,) what a value!


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## jgmann67 (Mar 15, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Label Peelers has FW Tavola kits on sale for 35% off.



got that message and immediately pulled the trigger on another Petite Sirah kit. The first one was used to blend with my cab franc and I have fewer bottles on the rack… it’s only a year or so old and tastes fantastic.


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## jgmann67 (Mar 15, 2022)

And here’s what I like most about labelpeelers. Ordered yesterday, delivered tomorrow.


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## Vlabruz (Mar 15, 2022)

She’sgonnakillme said:


> At those prices (same as the WE Classics), not sure why anyone would want to buy anything but a FWK, (if your looking for a medium to lower end kit,) what a value!


Does adding the skins to them make a big difference on the tavola kits?


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## She’sgonnakillme (Mar 15, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> Does adding the skins to them make a big difference on the tavola kits?



IMO, Tavola beats all other kits right of the gate, but when you start adding skins it takes it up a notch. But the more skins you add the longer you should wait to experience the wines full potential


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## Vlabruz (Mar 15, 2022)

She’sgonnakillme said:


> IMO, Tavola beats all other kits right of the gate, but when you start adding skins it takes it up a notch. But the more skins you add the longer you should wait to experience the wines full potential


I saw the abv is different between the tavola and the higher end. Is that a concentration factor?


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## She’sgonnakillme (Mar 15, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> I saw the abv is different between the tavola and the higher end. Is that a concentration factor?


Yes, the Forte has a bit more concentrate volume, therefore has a higher starting gravity


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## Rocky (Mar 15, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> I saw the abv is different between the tavola and the higher end. Is that a concentration factor?


All one would have to do is add some simple syrup and kick up the ISG to match the potential ABV.

I was wondering what the difference would be if one bought the Tavola series (say Zinfandel) and added two grape skin packs to the order. The Forte Zinfandel (which comes with two grape skin packs) is $127.49, and the Tavola Zinfandel on sale would be $106.28. A little bit of simple syrup to increase the ISG would be negligible in cost, so it appears to save one about $20.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 15, 2022)

Rocky said:


> I was wondering what the difference would be if one bought the Tavola series (say Zinfandel) and added two grape skin packs to the order. The Forte Zinfandel (which comes with two grape skin packs) is $127.49, and the Tavola Zinfandel on sale would be $106.28. A little bit of simple syrup to increase the ISG would be negligible in cost, so it appears to save one about $20.


I suspect there's more to it than simple sugar -- the Forte must has more body, not just higher Brix.


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## Bmd2k1 (Mar 15, 2022)

Anyone measure the SG bump ya get from a bag (or 2) of grape skins? I did Not...with my recent Forte Bordeaux. :-/


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## Rocky (Mar 15, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I suspect there's more to it than simple sugar -- the Forte must has more body, not just higher Brix.


You may be right Paul, but I remember everyone was very pleased with the Tavola series before the Forte series was available. Anyway, I am going to make a wine we made at home (75% Zinfandel and 25% Muscat) using the Tavola series. I have a Forte Zinfandel going now so I will be able to compare before blending the two wines.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 15, 2022)

I'm strongly considering purchasing 2 kits, a Sauvignon Blanc and a Bordeaux (no skin packs). I'm VERY pleased with the Barbera I made last summer, it's a quicker drinker, and I've got 6 other FWK Forte kits in production, so I don't need long agers.


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## jgmann67 (Mar 16, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Anyone measure the SG bump ya get from a bag (or 2) of grape skins? I did Not...with my recent Forte Bordeaux. :-/



I have done three or four of the Tavola kits (all with double skins) and a couple of the Forte kits so far. I haven't noticed any increase in SG in any of them.


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## Jim Welch (Mar 16, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Anyone measure the SG bump ya get from a bag (or 2) of grape skins? I did Not...with my recent Forte Bordeaux. :-/


I have on every single FWK (about 16 reds w/skins iirc) and have seen zero increase in gravity in every one. I’ve noticed the skins are “dry” compared to other kit’s skin packs which do increase must gravity. Not complaining even one iota, just relating my experience.

Edit: correct the autocorrect!!!


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## Gilmango (Mar 16, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Label Peelers has FW Tavola kits on sale for 35% off.


Big fan of FWK and Label Peelers. Just to clarify a little, the Tavola FWKs are currently on sale for 35% off the MSRP/Retail prices. But normally the Tavola FWKs, just like the Forte FWKs and their fruit FWKs are 25% off the MSRP/Retail. So the sale on Tavola's is a great deal, but it is only 10% more savings off the MSRP than usual. Not complaining at all, but just clarifying the magnitude of the sale.

The most expensive Tavola kits show an MSRP/Retail of $139.99. But they are only sold by LP and LP discounts every kit they sell (thankfully), so they have never sold at that Retail price. Normally they sell for 25% off (which is how all the Forte and Fruit FWKs are discounted), $102.74, but now at 35% off they are $89.04. The cheaper Tavolas MSRP is $127.99, normally sold at $95.99 (25% off), now $83.19 (35% off sale). Great prices whether 25 or 35% off.

As someone who posts in the popular Post a Meme thread here on WMT, I appreciated this too in the email announcing they were discounting beer kits 35% off as well:



With the Forte kit vs. Tavola you get the two skins packs, the seed pack, the two muslin sacks to keep those separated, extra oak cubes for secondary (1 or 1.5 oz I think), and a more concentrated concentrate. Both the Forte (listed at 13.5-14 ABV) and Tavola (listed at 12-13 ABV) seem to regularly over deliver on promised ABV, but I do find the Forte to go higher, so much so that I was able to water down the Forte Zin I'm making, in order to target 13.5%, and as a result should get over 6 gallons into the secondary (as I have 6.5 in the primary).


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## Vlabruz (Mar 16, 2022)

How long will these kits stay refrigerated for?


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## Jim Welch (Mar 16, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> How long will these kits stay refrigerated for?


I’ve kept the juice bladders in a rarely opened fridge for over 4 weeks with no apparent change, I.e. swelling, with the skin packs in the freezer. This fridge remains at 32-34 F since one, I’ve set it low and two, it has is a spare fridge and is rarely opened.


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## Vlabruz (Mar 16, 2022)

Jim Welch said:


> I’ve kept the juice bladders in a rarely opened fridge for over 4 weeks with no apparent change, I.e. swelling, with the skin packs in the freezer. This fridge remains at 32-34 F since one, I’ve set it low and two, it has is a spare fridge and is rarely opened.


I just emailed labelpeelers, they said in the fridge for a few months and freezer for a year at -10 or better.


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## She’sgonnakillme (Mar 16, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> I just emailed labelpeelers, they said in the fridge for a few months and freezer for a year at -10 or better.


Not many home freezers can sustain-10


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## Vlabruz (Mar 16, 2022)

She’sgonnakillme said:


> Not many home freezers can sustain-10


Unless its Celsius maybe


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## winemaker81 (Mar 16, 2022)

I just ordered a Sauvignon Blanc and a Pinot Noir (no skin packs). Looking forward to them!


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## Vlabruz (Mar 16, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I just ordered a Sauvignon Blanc and a Pinot Noir (no skin packs). Looking forward to them!


I want to order the super tuscan. Not sure if I should get skins or not. Im assuming, based on everyone's input that even with out skins they will blow away a winexpert classic cabernet kit?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 16, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> I want to order the super tuscan. Not sure if I should get skins or not. Im assuming, based on everyone's input that even with out skins they will blow away a winexpert classic cabernet kit?


The Super Tuscan will blow your mind. Regarding skin packs, it depends on what you want the wine to be.

We need another quick drinker. Last August I purchased a Tavola Barbera without skin packs and aged with 1 oz oak cubes. I bottled it in January and at this point, it's very good. I ordered the Pinot Noir without skin packs for the same reason.

We have 16+ cases of grape wines from 2019 and 2020 -- the 2019 is getting good, and the 2020 is just bottled. We have 6 FWK Forte kits in barrels now, which will be bottled next November-ish. We have lot of longer aging wine and need something to drink while these are aging.

BTW -- my son & I topped barrels tonight, and we follow a very strict quality control protocol (AKA "sampling the barrels") -- the Super Tuscan and our home-built Rhone blend (Syrah, Petite Sirah, & Merlot kits) are both VERY good at the 4 month mark. They are honestly drinkable at this point, although they will be outstanding in 2 years.

So ... depending on what you want the Super Tuscan to be, get 0, 1, or 2 skin packs.


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## Vlabruz (Mar 16, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> The Super Tuscan will blow your mind. Regarding skin packs, it depends on what you want the wine to be.
> 
> We need another quick drinker. Last August I purchased a Tavola Barbera without skin packs and aged with 1 oz oak cubes. I bottled it in January and at this point, it's very good. I ordered the Pinot Noir without skin packs for the same reason.
> 
> ...


When you say 4 months, does that include from day 1 or after fermentation?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 16, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> When you say 4 months, does that include from day 1 or after fermentation?


Day 1. Crazy, huh?

The Forte kits were not made according to instructions, as I made triple batches and had no way to seal the Brutes I used. So no EM. Next time I do this, I intend to get a couple more primary fermenters so I can ferment them individually and do the 2 week EM.

That said, we're highly pleased so far.


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## Rocky (Mar 16, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> When you say 4 months, does that include from day 1 or after fermentation?


I usually count from the date of stabilization, i.e., when I add the first dose of K-meta. In any case, it is only a difference of 10 to 14 days.


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## jgmann67 (Mar 17, 2022)

Got my second Petite Sirah yesterday and prepped to drop the yeast tonight. New packaging (shorter box, soft cooler bag for the juice and skins instead of the styrofoam) was a surprise. Looks and smell perfect.


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## She’sgonnakillme (Mar 17, 2022)

The soft shell cooler bag will be a welcomed change on the West Coast for sure! Styrofoam is banned in most of the major markets out here (it's considered EVIL! And evidently kills all the animals or something, Lol  ). FWK is evolving and setting a gold standard for their industry imo.I think it's great that they always look to improve their products.


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## jgmann67 (Mar 17, 2022)

She’sgonnakillme said:


> The soft shell cooler bag will be a welcomed change on the West Coast for sure! Styrofoam is banned in most of the major markets out here (it's considered EVIL! And evidently kills all the animals or something, Lol  ). FWK is evolving and setting a gold standard for their industry imo.I think it's great that they always look to improve their products.



i think it’s probably that it’s winter time and they switched to the soft bag because the ULine Boxes are expensive. But sure… save the truffula trees. Or whatever.


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## Brant (Mar 18, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Day 1. Crazy, huh?
> 
> The Forte kits were not made according to instructions, as I made triple batches and had no way to seal the Brutes I used. So no EM. Next time I do this, I intend to get a couple more primary fermenters so I can ferment them individually and do the 2 week EM.
> 
> That said, we're highly pleased so far.



Bryan,
You've been very helpful in the past so I was hoping you might give a explanation on the 2 week EM process and how you do it exactly. I'm trying to get a better understanding of EM, the benefits and how to incorporate it into a future FWK. If you would be kind enough to breakdown in some detail how you modify the primary/secondary processes, this would be very helpful!


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## Vlabruz (Mar 18, 2022)

She’sgonnakillme said:


> The soft shell cooler bag will be a welcomed change on the West Coast for sure! Styrofoam is banned in most of the major markets out here (it's considered EVIL! And evidently kills all the animals or something, Lol  ). FWK is evolving and setting a gold standard for their industry imo.I think it's great that they always look to improve





Brant said:


> Bryan,
> You've been very helpful in the past so I was hoping you might give a explanation on the 2 week EM process and how you do it exactly. I'm trying to get a better understanding of EM, the benefits and how to incorporate it into a future FWK. If you would be kind enough to breakdown in some detail how you modify the primary/secondary processes, this would be very helpful!


Whats EM?


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## She’sgonnakillme (Mar 18, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> Whats EM?


Extended Maceration- once fermented to dry, you then leave the skins and wine in the primary for an extended amount of time, usually another 2-8 weeks


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## Brant (Mar 18, 2022)

Vlabruz said:


> Whats EM?


Extended maceration. There are plenty of discussions about it on here but my understanding of it is very limited. I'd rather follow someone's tried and true recipe rather than experimenting on a $150 kit and waiting a year to find out that it didn't get the results I intended.


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## winemaker81 (Mar 18, 2022)

Brant said:


> You've been very helpful in the past so I was hoping you might give a explanation on the 2 week EM process and how you do it exactly. I'm trying to get a better understanding of EM, the benefits and how to incorporate it into a future FWK. If you would be kind enough to breakdown in some detail how you modify the primary/secondary processes, this would be very helpful!


I'll give you *my *understanding of Extended Maceration (EM), and I freely admit there's certainly more to it than I understand.

Maceration is simply "soaking", e.g., macerated cherries is soaking cherries in rum, brandy, or other liquor.

The idea behind EM is to soak the pomace (grape solids after fermentation) in an alcoholic liquid (the wine) for a period to extract more "stuff" from the pomace. Conversely, cold soaking is allowing the must (unfermented grape solids & juice) to macerate BEFORE fermentation, so it's in a non-alcoholic liquid.

The mechanics of EM, as recommended by FWK, is to ferment the wine normally in an open fermenter to near completion (SG 1.010 to 1.020, I can't recall exactly what the instructions say, and anything in that range is fine). Give the wine a final stir and snap the lid on the fermenter and apply an airlock. It's important that the ferment is active, as CO2 needs to be produced during EM to protect the wine.

During EM the wine completes fermentation. The CO2 emitted pushes out the air so danger of oxidation is reduced or eliminated. My belief is that the CO2 coming from the wine pushes out the air -- there will be some mixing, but the air at the top of the container is pushed out, so during the process enough air is pushed out to be safe. [This is "educated" speculation on my part, and if someone can prove I'm wrong, please post!]

Due to humidity in the fermenter, it's not necessary to stir the must to keep the cap from drying out.

There is some disagreement regarding what happens during EM. I've found several scientific references that indicate most color and aroma are extracted relatively quickly during fermentation, but some additional pigment is extracted. Tannin is extracted more slowly and evenly, so it appears that more tannin is the bigger draw. I've read numerous articles on the subject, and this one has a graph that shows the relative rates in which things are extracted during EM. This graph matches other references I've read, so it appears to be fairly accurate.









Winemaker's Red Wine Secret: Extended Maceration | Wine Folly


Extended maceration is a red wine technique known to add incredible depth to red wines and it's increasing in popularity around the world.




winefolly.com





Commercial winemakers are divided on usage of EM. Personally, I don't believe in "one size fits all" so usage depends on what you want. If I'm making a longer aging wine, EM makes sense, and I'd be tempted to do 2 to 4 weeks. Making a quicker drinking red? Nope! No EM for me!

Based upon what @Matteo_Lahm has said about the FWK instructions, it appears that EM not only produces a more complex wine, but it also helps ensure the wine is fermented to completion. That's an issue for kit vendors -- ensuring beginners who have no experienced help do not produce two dozen mini-volcanoes in the bottle. The FWK process gets 2 birds with the same stone.


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## Brant (Mar 18, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Based upon what @Matteo_Lahm has said about the FWK instructions, it appears that EM not only produces a more complex wine, but it also helps ensure the wine is fermented to completion. That's an issue for kit vendors -- ensuring beginners who have no experienced help do not produce two dozen mini-volcanoes in the bottle. The FWK process gets 2 birds with the same stone.



So following the FWK Forte instructions of leaving in primary for 14 days and transferring on day 15, you are essentially doing a 2 week EM? I assumed it was 2 weeks in addition to the standard 2 week in primary. But this would be considered a 4 week EM, right?

When I brewed my first Forte kit, primary fermentation was pretty much finished by day 4 or 5 with very little signs of fermentation still taking place. Is this when EM technically starts? When fermentation is completed?

Are you "tweaking" anything on your FWK Forte series red kits? Any secrets you wish to share?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 18, 2022)

Brant said:


> When I brewed my first Forte kit, primary fermentation was pretty much finished by day 4 or 5 with very little signs of fermentation still taking place. Is this when EM technically starts? When fermentation is completed?


That's my understanding, that EM starts when fermentation ends. Keep in mind that there is no exact formula. The FWK instructions say to seal the fermenter at ~1.010, so you will not know exactly when fermentation starts and EM begins.

Nor does it matter. Make a choice, e.g., seal the container at 1.010 and ignore it for 14 days. Or 28 days. For your first try, I'd go with 7 to 14 days. See how it comes out, and either stick with that or extend the duration in succeeding batches. Experiment and have fun!



> Are you "tweaking" anything on your FWK Forte series red kits? Any secrets you wish to share?


I have no secrets, as my notes are online.  

What I did for my current reds is:

1. Added Scottzyme ColorPro maceration enzyme. I used this for my 2020 reds with great results. I purchased more last fall before my grape purchase fell through, and since I had it, I tried it on the Forte kits with skin packs. According to Scott's spec sheet:

Scottzyme® Color Pro is a specialty pectinase with protease side-activities. These side-activities are important for helping break down the cell walls of red grapes to gently extract more anthocyanins, polymeric phenols and tannins. This gentle extraction creates wines that are rounder in mouthfeel and bigger in structure, with improved color stability. Wines made with Color Pro tend to have increased tannins, improved clarity and reduced herbaceous or “veggie” character. Lower doses of Color Pro are recommended for red varieties that are underripe, low in anthocyanins or high in seed tannins. For “big” reds from ripe fruit with mature seeds, higher doses of Color Pro are recommended.​
The effect upon skin packs appears to be the same as fresh grapes:




The white in the background is a FWK Chardonnay -- that glass was the last of the carboy and is a bit muddy looking. The clear wine is beautiful.

2. Barrel aging. Each wine (Super Tuscan, Rhone blend [Syrah, Petite Sirah, Merlot]) is in a 54 liter (14.25 US gallon) neutral barrel with the 4.5 oz of cubes provided with the kits (each kit has 1.5 oz).

Note that a barrel is a big commitment, and it's not cheap -- and I'm not talking about the price of the barrel. At the 1 month mark each barrel consumed a full bottle of wine (although the 4 oz tasting sample is part of that). Of the 18 gallons a triple kit produces, I expect to bottle about 15.5 gallons.

Also barrels need to be kept full -- these wines will remain in the barrel until the 2022 wines are ready for barrel.

And ... I purchased used barrels from known owners, both about 10 years old. The first wine may be in a new barrel only 4 to 8 weeks, so for me to buy a new 54 liter barrel, I'd plan to make three 18 gallon batches to cycle through it during the first year. Once a barrel is neutral (~3 year mark), wine can remain in the barrel in definitely.

Note this is for small barrels. The volume to internal surface area ratio of a 60 gallon barrel is totally different, so wines can remain in them much longer.

In addition to my regular notes, I also have several "in detail" blogs that record very detailed notes.





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2021 Super Tuscan – Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site







wine.bkfazekas.com









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2021 Rhone Blend – Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site







wine.bkfazekas.com


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## Brant (Mar 18, 2022)

Thanks for the info, Bryan. Ill check out Scottzyme. 

I have a line on (2) 15 gal barrels that were used once for 9 months according to the person who owns them. The owner (neighbor) seems to be OK with parting with them and was willing to show me how to re-seed and use them. I'm clueless on their use and not sure if I'm ready to make the commitment. Sound awesome but kind of intimidating at this point in my journey. 

Do you notice a big or subtle difference in the finished product with barrel vs carboy? 

Also, I noticed you replying to some topics about using glycerin. Do you normally add it to all your wines, or?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 18, 2022)

Brant said:


> I have a line on (2) 15 gal barrels that were used once for 9 months according to the person who owns them. The owner (neighbor) seems to be OK with parting with them and was willing to show me how to re-seed and use them. I'm clueless on their use and not sure if I'm ready to make the commitment. Sound awesome but kind of intimidating at this point in my journey.


Are they stored wet or dry? If dry, I'd be VERY leery. If wet, then ensure the storage solution was correct (K-meta and acid).

This is a large commitment. If you're feeling uncomfortable, then it's best to wait.



> Do you notice a big or subtle difference in the finished product with barrel vs carboy?


For wines aged 6+ months in a barrel, the difference is tremendous. The one thing no other container (that I know of) can do is provide the concentrating effect that a barrel does. The water and alcohol that evaporate through the wood leave all other constituents behind, so aroma and flavor become more concentrated.



> Also, I noticed you replying to some topics about using glycerin. Do you normally add it to all your wines, or?


Currently, yes. It smooths a lot of rough edges. 1/2 to 1 oz per gallon is the general dosage.


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## Brant (Mar 18, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Are they stored wet or dry? If dry, I'd be VERY leery. If wet, then ensure the storage solution was correct (K-meta and acid).
> ...
> Currently, yes. It smooths a lot of rough edges. 1/2 to 1 oz per gallon is the general dosage.



Not positive but I would assume stored dry. What happens to a dried barrel? Shrinkage and leaking issues? Other?

Also, do you add glycerin at any specific time in your process? I believe you said the effects on taste are immediate so I would assume a person could add just prior to bottling and taste test at that point to determine if it improves taste quality. Is this fair to assume?


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## winemaker81 (Mar 18, 2022)

Brant said:


> Not positive but I would assume stored dry. What happens to a dried barrel? Shrinkage and leaking issues? Other?


Shrinkage and drying out are a given. Fill the barrel with water and keep it full until it seals. IF it seals. Barrel wax will fix minor leaks. I'd not buy a used barrel unless it had a leak-free guarantee.

Mold and mildew are the serious problem. While it's possible to disassemble a barrel, sand it down, and re-assemble it ... I'll pass.

The barrels I purchased were kept full of a holding solution, and the couple what owned them knew what they were doing. That is key.



> Also, do you add glycerin at any specific time in your process? I believe you said the effects on taste are immediate so I would assume a person could add just prior to bottling and taste test at that point to determine if it improves taste quality. Is this fair to assume?


I add just before bottling. When I think I have it right, I don't second guess myself. _Maybe _I can make it better, maybe not.

Some folks are into fine tuning, and if they are happy? Cool! YMMV


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