# Sanitize without any chemicals, and save money?



## rshosted (May 25, 2007)

I just found this online. I am interested to see if we could use this as a sanitizer for our primarys and equipment.....

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11212431&amp;cm_mmc=BCEmail_205-_-Focus-_-52-_-lotusSanitizingSystem_BCEmail_205

Can anyone with some knowledge give us some input?

&gt;&gt;&gt;


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<td ="t11" name="ProductDesc" valign="top" width="100%"><a name="productinfo"></a>Take a step towards healthier living.</span> </span> The
lotus® Sanitizing Systemturns plain tap water into the world's most
effective, chemical-free household sanitizerand deodorizerby infusing
the water with ozone. Thesuperoxygenated water kills
microbesandremoves toxins. When you 'lotus' your home, you turn
ordinary tap water into the world's most powerful sanitizer in about
two minutes, for a fraction of a penny. EPA and FDA approved, lotus®
clearly brings wellness to the entire household.</span> </span> *Added Value: *</span> <ul>[*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">2 additional microcotton cleaning cloths (4 cloths total)</span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">3 additional booster cartridges (4 cartridges total)</span>[/list] *Features:</span>*</span> <ul><div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Oxyshield® technology infuses tap water with ozone - a natural sanitizer that is safe and harmless to healthy cells (t</span>urns tap water intoa safe, odorless sanitizer and deodorizer)</span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Natural Sanitizer: safe to use on food and food preparation surfaces</span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></span>Sanitizes: Fruit &amp; vegetables, household surfaces, baby feeding accessories &amp; more</span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Wipes out germsmore effectively, and 3000 times faster, thanbleach</span></span></span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></span></span></span>Removes 99.9% of bacteria, viruses&amp; pesticides</span></span></span></span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></span></span></span></span>Kills microbes and removes toxins</span></span></span></span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></span></span></span></span>Safe for babies,pets &amp; people with allergies or sensitive skin </span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">Sanitizing System w/multi-purpose bowl &amp; lid 
B</span>owl dimensions: 10" Diameter x 12" H
Capacity: 4 quarts</span></span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></span></span>1 multi-purpose spray bottle
Dimensions: 3.5" Diameter X 9.5" H
Capacity: 1 quart</span> [*]UL approved [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></span>120 volts</span> [*] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"></span>1-year limited warranty</span>[/list] <div ="Msonormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> For product related questions please callTersano toll-free at (800) 808-1724</span></span></span> </span></span></span></td></tr></t></table>


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## Wade E (May 25, 2007)

Very interesting rs!


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## smurfe (May 25, 2007)

I know many wineries use ozone for sanitation. Wonder if this is as effective? If I remember, it is a fairly expensive process.


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## Grant (May 25, 2007)

Swimming pools have been using ozone to sanatize for years
But yes it has been very expensive, but now it is being replaced by UV technology. Not sure if this would work for our use though


Grant


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## rshosted (May 26, 2007)

I have been reading a lot about this subject (since this post), and I actually just kind of 'lucked' into finding this product. The inventor states that this is more powerful than bleach for killing and sanitizing. 

It takes about 4 minutes to make a bottle of the water, then it lasts for about 15 minutes. He states that after that you need to re-ozone the water. 

I read several customer testimonials about it too. I usually use a acid based cleaner for my equipment which is non-rinse (starsan), but am thinking of getting this machine. Though it will cost a little (lot) more than the sanitizer I use, I would never have to buy more sanitizer and I could also use the little unit to clean fruit and other things around the house.

I find it interesting becuase I recall reading an article lately in Winemaker magazine where an article mentioned that an expensive way to sanitize that wineries are using is ozone. The author states it would be impracticle for home wine makers to use this method becuase of the high price of ozone systems. It seems that that author was correct then, but now is not. It seems this is a affordable system that we could use.

Another interesting thing is that I read people use it on produce after buying fruits and veggies from the store. They say they last longer because it kills bacteria on the skins that make them go bad faster. Since I grow my own grapes (trying to at least) I think if I get this, rather than dose the wine with metabisulphite to kill the bacteria, I would rinse the grapes with ozonated water. Then I don't have to worry as much about yeast not working well. 

I wonder if there is a way to test if it really kills all of the bacteria. They advertize 99.9% of it will be killed. I can't imagine that metabisulphite solution is that strong at the levels we use.

I have to say, I'm getting ready to buy one of these machines.


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## rshosted (May 26, 2007)

Here is a claim by the inventor:

"I'm the inventor! Eventhough you show them that lotus water is 50% more
powerful and 3000 times faster acting than bleach...its actaully more
powerful than hydrogen peroxide"

And

"We have passed the same tests, all performed by an EPA approved lab and
we had the product registered by the EPA based on these results as a
sanitizer. What amazes me is that people think that you can sanitize
with vinegar and water, yet the EPA will not register that 'blend' as a
sanitizer."
*Edited by: rshosted *


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## Wade E (May 26, 2007)

I know my hot tub used to have an ozonator on it and it helped
considerably at keeping the the water better. When i bought a hot
tub without an ozonator with out 1 I was suprized at how much more
chems I had to use.


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## rshosted (May 26, 2007)

after reading for several hours this morning, I decided to buy one. I would report back, but I really don't know how I would know if it works well or not. I guess I'll have to assume it works well, until I have a batch go bad.


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 26, 2007)

I don't know where the general public could get them, surely somewhere, but you can set out an agar plate and see if bacteria grows in an area you have sanitized, one before, one after. The bacteria colonies would either grow or not, if the sanitizer is working, you should have a much smaller colony after sanitizing.


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## Dean (May 27, 2007)

Try it with beer first! Beer is much more prone to infection, due to much higher PH levels and lower alcohol. I always have to be much more careful with beer.


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 27, 2007)

Did a quick search and found the agar and plates I was referring to, $10.75 for six, not too spendy to check your condition, compared to what you are paying for the system.
http://sciencekit.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_IG0021107


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## PeterZ (May 27, 2007)

RS,

Ozone (O3) is an extremely powerful oxidant. It is used in many applications, like pools and hot tubs to replace chlorine. For sanitizing fruit in its little container it probably works pretty well. You might have to leave the fruit in there for an hour for it to generate enough ozone to have an effect.

Like the info says, an ozone solution in water has a very short shelf life. The only use you can get out of this device is to make enough ozonated water to rinse your equipment and then use it to sterilize the equipment, then fill the equipment (primary) with must in a 15 minute period. Ozone has absolutely no residual effect at all. Rinse your equipment with it for 60 seconds and it is sanitized. Leave it sitting for an hour and it is no longer sanitized.

Over the years industry has been plagued with devices that cite good science at bad application levels. In this case, I don't think this device can produce enough ozone to be worthwhile for our purposes. Making ozone takes a lot of electricity. Commercial wineries can afford it, but they are probably circulating the ozonated water through off-line equipment for an hour after shutdown and an hour before startup. It also provides them with some environmental benefits, as they cannot dump a lot of bleach solution into the sewers or a river, but because ozone has such a short shelf life and creates no chloramines, it is not regulated.

After using any oxidizer, it is still necessary to rinse with SO2. All oxidizers are oxygen donors, and that is the same as leaving your wine exposed to air.


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## PeterZ (May 27, 2007)

JW,

Those agar plates are useless to us. What is the most worrisome bacteria to us? _Acetobacter sp._, the bacteria that turns wine into vinegar. It will not grow on that medium. There are thousands of recipes for agar that target specific species of bacteria. They are listed in a book called Burge's Manual, which is about 3" thick. Back in the day, identifying a species of bacteria involved trying to grow it on different recipes from Burge's.


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## JWMINNESOTA (May 27, 2007)

The plates can be filled with any medium one deems necessary. Personally, as all of this may be interesting, and sure gets people to thinking and learning, my personal opinion is everything you need will be supplied by someone such as George. We can try, experiment , etc all we want, but the standards are pretty well covered for our aps from a good home brew shop such as FVW. I often compare what is used at the commercial level where I work, to what we do with our hobby, and don't really find it necessary to use the commercial supplies, methods,etc.


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## rshosted (May 27, 2007)

Thanks Peter. Ibelieve you are correct. I have read
that the shelf life of the ozinated water is 15 minutes. But I usually sanitize
right after I am finished with equipment and right before. So realistically, if
I use it right before I fill up a primary and right after it should suffice. It
makes a full bottle that can be sprayed onto the equipment (much like I do with
the sanitizer). Though, it studies they have done with this piece of equipment
say that it is stronger than bleach (while its shelf-life is still good). 



I don't see why it would not be an acceptable solution for sanitizing primaries
and carboys just prior to use. I don't think that if they are sanitized and sit
for a few minutes prior to filling (&lt;15-30 minutes) they should be clean
enough. And I also think we have to realize the difference between sanitary and
completely sanitized. 



As for growing agar plates, I really think there would be too many variables in
a home setting. Maybe in a lab where one would control the air, temp, and many
other settings.... 



As for sanitizing fruit, they suggest a two minute contact time. I couldn't
imagine it would take too long for it to sanitize with this model. The bottle
could easily be refreshed every 10 minutes if needed. I could even get two
bottles and switch them. I agree a winery would need a MUCH larger
equipment, but I really don't believe that they are going to get a substantial
amount of ozone in the water, more than this machine does (granted we are
working with much smaller amounts of water here and if a winery were to use
that small amount of water it would be impractical.) 



I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't seem like an unusable method for home
wine makers. Because we are using a much smaller amount and if it is compared
to bleach, etc.... Am I wrong? <!--[if gte vml 1]>














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## JWMINNESOTA (May 27, 2007)

Will be interesting to see your opinion after using it awhile.


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## PeterZ (May 28, 2007)

rs, you have the right idea. Produce a bottle of ozonated water, spray the equipment, and use immediately. That should work just fine. Ozone is the strongest known oxidant and, as such, works very fast at a low concentration. Being pure oxygen, it creates no objectionable byproducts.

Its biggest drawback is the lack of shelf life. The chemical industry now can produce organic peroxides in solid form that has a long shelf life. StarSan is an example. There is a big move in industry away from chlorine, due to the byproducts that result from its use. Ozone, in a clean setting (no heavy organic loading) is an excellent choice of "true sanitizer." 

The way you plan to use ozone is exactly the way where it works best. Spray everything down with a fresh solution just before use. Watch out for headaches - ozone does that to some people.


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## rshosted (May 28, 2007)

Thanks for the headache warning. I usually get that after drinking the wine.





But I am really excited to have something to use for sanitation that does not have a really really big warning on it. Though, I have to admit I am a little afriad to use only it....


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## PeterZ (May 29, 2007)

rs, I get my headaches the morning after drinking wine.

I always follow up a "true sanitizer" (read: oxidizer) wash with a sulfite solution rinse. Since I never allow organic crud to dry on my equipment, oftentimes I will only use the sulfite. If you want to use the ozone only make sure you can smell the ozone in the solution. It's the same smell you get when you short out a couple of wires, as electrical discharge is the original way to make ozone. Note that this is not the smell you get when arc welding. The smell of the flux on the welding rod (or in the wire in MIG welding) overpowers the ozone smell.


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## Dean (May 29, 2007)

it's actually the sleep that causes the headaches! I know this to be true, because everytime I drink heavily, after I sleep, when I wake up, I have a bad headache! If only I didn't need to sleep after drinking, then I'd have no headaches





I know the smell of ozone from working in computer rooms in the late 80s. You could always walk into a server room and know if there was a mainframe or vax housed in there due to scent of ozone! Same smell you get from those little electric tyco racetracks that we used to play with as kids.


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## rshosted (May 29, 2007)

That's funny dean. I just thought it was waking up that caused the headaches!


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## PeterZ (May 30, 2007)

Dean, that's the smell!


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