# some chardonel questions



## countrygirl (Sep 15, 2010)

jon, grapeman, and others...
i racked my 5 gallons of chardonel tonight. the 3 gallon had alot of sediment and the 2 one gallons jugs not as much. the 3 gallon had a great taste! the two one gallon jugs seemed much higher in alcohol flavor??? since i got three new 5 gal. carboys, i put this all into one tonight. if the taste i got from the 3 gallon is any indication, i'm very excited about this! it was very smooth and the aroma was very fruity. just didn't know if the smaller jugs tasting different was any indication of anything?


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## grapeman (Sep 16, 2010)

My guess is that the two -gallon jugs fermented quicker which they usually will. Because of theat, they were drier than the 3. Because that was less dry, it had more sugar left in it making it smoother and more fruit forward. When it gets done feremnting and clears, you will want to stabilize it and then if you like your wine off dry, sweeten it up just a little. Just be sure you have added the k-meta and k-sorbate to stabilize first.


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## countrygirl (Sep 16, 2010)

thanks grapeman! didn't think about the smaller ones fermenting further/faster. makes sense since they seem to clear faster,too. i have a 3 layer look in the big carboy this morning, lol. 
so i will treat this just like my fruit wines?
stabilize, wait a week or so, and then backsweeten, if needed?


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## countrygirl (Sep 24, 2010)

everything has been steady for days. think i'm gonna stabilize this weekend.
have u stabilized ur missouri grape wines yet jon?


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 24, 2010)

countrygirl said:


> everything has been steady for days. think i'm gonna stabilize this weekend.
> have u stabilized ur missouri grape wines yet jon?



Nah - i am not going to add sorbate to mine - as i am not going to sweeten them.

I will keep up the SO2 levels to avoid any unwanted MLF to occur - but if by chance it does occur - the wine won't be ruined by sorbate addition.

I am racking both seyval and chardonel this weekend - have a about an 1" of sediment with the seyval and 1/2" with the chardonel.


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## countrygirl (Sep 24, 2010)

winemaker_3352 said:


> Nah - i am not going to add sorbate to mine - as i am not going to sweeten them.
> 
> I will keep up the SO2 levels to avoid any unwanted MLF to occur - but if by chance it does occur - the wine won't be ruined by sorbate addition.
> 
> I am racking both seyval and chardonel this weekend - have a about an 1" of sediment with the seyval and 1/2" with the chardonel.



tell me about keeping the so2 levels up? 
how is this done?
i have four solid gallons and about 1/2 gallon with lots of sediment for a little bit of topping up. there is a part of me that would like to just keep this as natural as possible, due to it being my first grape wine, but me and my family do still seem to like sweeter wines the best, so i may stabilize and backsweeten some...decisions, decisions
thanks jon and all for all the advice. i hope to see you again next year IF i get a press and/or crusher, lol
(u think we could get 'em to do the pressing and crushing and just buy the juice????)


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 24, 2010)

countrygirl said:


> tell me about keeping the so2 levels up?
> how is this done?
> i have four solid gallons and about 1/2 gallon with lots of sediment for a little bit of topping up. there is a part of me that would like to just keep this as natural as possible, due to it being my first grape wine, but me and my family do still seem to like sweeter wines the best, so i may stabilize and backsweeten some...decisions, decisions
> thanks jon and all for all the advice. i hope to see you again next year IF i get a press and/or crusher, lol
> (u think we could get 'em to do the pressing and crushing and just buy the juice????)




Adding the right sulfite amounts 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons in the primary, when sorbating, and about every 3-4 months of aging. The safest way is to test for the free SO2 present. between 35-50 PPM possibly a bit higher 55 PPM.

They might crush and press for you - i know some of the wineries do that or have that available - might be an addl charge though.


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## countrygirl (Sep 24, 2010)

winemaker_3352 said:


> Adding the right sulfite amounts 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons in the primary, when sorbating, and about every 3-4 months of aging. The safest way is to test for the free SO2 present. between 35-50 PPM possibly a bit higher 55 PPM.
> 
> They might crush and press for you - i know some of the wineries do that or have that available - might be an addl charge though.



aah, i was thinking c02, lol.
r u just using kmeta? i only have that and campden tabs.
i may ask ed about cost of crush and press...would make it ALOT easier on me! i sure enjoyed picking those grapes, though. maybe i could volunteer to pick while their crushing/pressing? it was a long drive, though, but worth it.


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## winemaker_3352 (Sep 24, 2010)

countrygirl said:


> aah, i was thinking c02, lol.
> r u just using kmeta? i only have that and campden tabs.
> i may ask ed about cost of crush and press...would make it ALOT easier on me! i sure enjoyed picking those grapes, though. maybe i could volunteer to pick while their crushing/pressing? it was a long drive, though, but worth it.



Yup - just k-meta.

I could make a day of that easy down there - i wish i could have. But my 5 and 3 year old need my time more right now  And that is fine with me - there will be a time when i will devote a weekends worth of time harvesting down there.

They actually had live music later on!!


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## countrygirl (Sep 25, 2010)

well, i k-meta'd today, but no sorbate. it tastes good as it is
as everyone talks about sugar increased (and oak decreasing) with age, does the natural sugars also increase with age? if so, then this is set to be awesome down the road!!! can't wait!
btw, our local winery in paducah has also been doing live music on the weekends...haven't been yet, but the weather is getting about right to try it out!


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## countrygirl (Jan 20, 2011)

i racked this sometime in nov. and again today. but i had something happen today i have not experienced in this past 9 months...the lees where very compact and there seemed to only be a small layer. when i rinsed the carboy, it didn't want to rinse out for a second and then when it did, it was HARD AND CRUSTY??
what is up with that?


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## Runningwolf (Jan 20, 2011)

What is the temperature of your wine area. It sure sounds like wine diamonds to me. This is a good thing if they're dropping on their own right now. I would also consider moving your carboy to a cold place such as an unheated garage to try and drop some more. My wine cellar is an average 65* and I've had bottles drop plenty of diamonds.


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 20, 2011)

Wine Diamonds is exactly what it is - I had the same thing happen with my Chardonel and Seyval wines. I recently moved my carboys into a converted freezer to cold stabilize them.


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## grapeman (Jan 20, 2011)

I third that. What you describe is exactly what you get with cold stabilization. I add bentonite which is fluffy just before cold weather sets in. The bentonite helps prevent protein hazes. It can be difficult to settle at these later stages, so by adding before the CS, the crust you describe holds it down and makes it easy to rack off the bentonite. I have about 40 carboys at that stage now of whites to rack soon. After that racking they are pretty clear- to the point you can read fine print through the carboy.


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## countrygirl (Jan 21, 2011)

wow!
it's been in my closet, which does not have a heat vent. i had a thermometer in there for a while and it was usually around 68 (we're all pretty hot natured, so we keep the thermostat low and use the fireplace to knock off the chill). i have placed it back in the same closet and i wonder if i will get much more sediment...it's VERY clear! my color does seem a little darker than other chardonels i've seen?
(i also had labels made at mylabels.com for these and it looks so good, i feel like a proud mom, lol)


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 21, 2011)

It might take a lot longer to drop out than it would at colder temps.

I had mine at the same temp and experienced the same thing. It dropped a lot more out once i cold stabilized it.


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## grapeman (Jan 21, 2011)

Get one of those stick on the side thermometers for the carboy. If it is in an unheated closet on the floor, it is probably well below 68. Like Jon said, if you can place it where it is cooler, it will drop out the remainder quicker for you. If you don't then you run the risk of haze or wine diamonds in the fridge when you cool it before serving. That's not the end of the world, but if you CS it at cooler temps, you will be good for cooler storage.


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 21, 2011)

I don't what the temp down there is - but in STL it is in the high 20's. You could place this in the garage for a week or two at those temps and that would probably do the trick.

I have mine set in the converted freezer at 32* - been two weeks now and i am going to rack off this weekend.


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## countrygirl (Jan 21, 2011)

winemaker_3352 said:


> I don't what the temp down there is - but in STL it is in the high 20's. You could place this in the garage for a week or two at those temps and that would probably do the trick.
> 
> I have mine set in the converted freezer at 32* - been two weeks now and i am going to rack off this weekend.



it was 20 degrees coming in, supposed to be 14 tonight


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## grapeman (Jan 21, 2011)

Only -5 tonight, -12 tomorrow night and -15 Sunday night. High of 0 Sunday with -20's chill then with the wind.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 21, 2011)

countrygirl said:


> it was 20 degrees coming in, supposed to be 14 tonight



I think you'll be safe with those temperatures in a garage. Keep it off the concrete floor. You may only need it out there about 10 days at those temps. Keep vodka in the air lock. The main thing is watch it daily. I think the most you would get is some slush, but i don't think you'll have to worry about it freezing solid. It would be best if the carboy was in a milk crate for moving around.When you bring it back in wait for the wine to get back to room temperature before racking.


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## countrygirl (Jan 22, 2011)

and cold stabilization is just to complete to acid drop out? correct?


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 22, 2011)

countrygirl said:


> and cold stabilization is just to complete to acid drop out? correct?



Yeah it will drop out the access acid - this will lower the TA a bit.

This ensures that when you bottle and chill - that you don't have bottles with wine diamonds. Although there is nothing wrong with it - just not appealing.

Red wine aren't as necessary - since they tend to be served at room temp.


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