# What goes first in the barrel



## tonyt (Jan 29, 2011)

I am ordering a Vadai barrel Monday, Sandro's daughter suggests I go with the 20 ltr. I will finalize the deal with him Monday. So I have the following wines either aging or on order. which one should take the first trip in (2 weeks)? Second and third suggestions are welcome too.


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## Tom (Jan 29, 2011)

B-4 you do anything you must sanitize and prep the barrel.


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## tonyt (Jan 29, 2011)

Tom said:


> B-4 you do anything you must sanitize and prep the barrel.



I will meticulously follow Sandro's instructions.


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## AlFulchino (Jan 29, 2011)

i didnt vote because i dont know these kits...i would choose my least favorite among them to be the first one out of the shoot..that way IF there are any unforseen issues you wont be losing your best......monitor the oak on the first one


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## Wade E (Jan 30, 2011)

Id go with exactly what the poll is saying right now. A Valpolicella should not be oaked nearly as much as Cab Sauv so with that being said if you put that in first youd probably want to yank it days later. The Amarone isnt a big oaker IMO either. The Syrah could be another culprit for some heavier oaking but Id hit the cab first.


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## tonyt (Jan 30, 2011)

Okay, we're off to a good start. I love the idea of starting with my least favorite kit first, just in case. That would be the Valpolicella, but as Wade says that isn't the best choice and I already have added one French Spiral for a few weeks. The Cab doesn't arrive till sometimes in April. But we are definitely making progress here. thanks.

BTW, won't that Camenere/Cabernet be a great candidate for a couple month trip in the barrel late summer?


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## Wade E (Jan 30, 2011)

Carmenere is typically a softer wine so IMO if it is used to blend with a Cab then it is meant to relax the Cab a bit but if you want to bring it back up a bit then by all means go for it.


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## robie (Jan 30, 2011)

None of the above.
First, ferment (yes, ferment) a couple of whites in it to get it nice inside.
It will take that initial edge off the oak and do lots of other nice things to the inside.
Then, do post-fermentations of any red you choose. (IMO)


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## xanxer82 (Jan 30, 2011)

Water and sulfite solution for a few days. Would rather have water leak out instead of wine.


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## RedNeckWino (Jan 30, 2011)

I think if ALL of those wines had to share time in the same barrel, Start with the lightest color and taste. Work your way up to the heavier darker reds for last. Wish I had the money and space for a few barrels. Some day! For now I am getting great results oaking in the carboys.


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## JohnT (Feb 1, 2011)

Not to be a pain in the A--, but for 20 liters of wine is it worth going to a barrel and not using oak beads?. The resasons I ask this are..

1) expense - that seems a lot of money for just a carboy's worth of wine. If it is oak taste that you are after, then you need to keep in mind that a barrel can be used only so many times before it has no more oak to give.

2) validity - The surface to volume ratio is rather high in such a small keg. This high ratio leaves the door open for oxidation. 

3) top-off - a barrel eats wine (the angel's share). You will need a good amount of top off to keep the barrel filled.

My vote would be "none of the above".


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## ibglowin (Feb 1, 2011)

Hmmmm,

So are you saying unless we are making 40-60 gallons at a crack a barrel is a waste of money?

You know as everyone else does that once the barrel is neutral you just throw in 2-3 oz of beans and viola' its has that "new barrel" smell once again. 

You are indeed very correct about the higher surface to volume ratio over the larger cask. That said there is no proof that a small barrel will turn out 6 gallons of vinegar due to some massively higher oxidation rate. 

Every single owner of a small 5-6 gallon barrel has only had good things to say about the end product. Not one has said it turned out a bad or overly oxidized wine even after being in a barrel for up to a year.

Yes, you need to top off. Just like all barrels.

Concentration through controlled evaporation and micro-oxygenation. That is the name of the game here and why us silly little "6 gallon wine makers" are wasting our time and hard earned money on small barrels........

In the end, were all just trying to make a better wine.


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## tonyt (Feb 1, 2011)

JohnT said:


> Not to be a pain in the A--, but for 20 liters of wine is it worth going to a barrel and not using oak beads?. The resasons I ask this are..
> 
> 1) expense - that seems a lot of money for just a carboy's worth of wine. If it is oak taste that you are after, then you need to keep in mind that a barrel can be used only so many times before it has no more oak to give.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the other side of the coin. On your first and third points I don't mind the expense of the barrel or the extra top up wine. It's a hobby with me not a business so I'm more interested in enjoying the hobby and experimenting. this sounds crazy but I am especially looking forward to the barrel going neutral so I can add French beads or spirals while still enjoying added concentration. As far as your second comment about oxidation I have no idea but I haven't read anyone complaining about that with small barrels. 

It's on the way so wish me luck.


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## robie (Feb 2, 2011)

ibglowin said:


> ....
> Yes, you need to top off. Just like all barrels.
> 
> Concentration through controlled evaporation and micro-oxygenation. That is the name of the game here and why us silly little "6 gallon wine makers" are wasting our time and hard earned money on small barrels........
> ...



You've got that right! One can get oak taste in other ways besides barrels, but that concentration - that's one of the things commercial wines have that most home wine makers miss. Why? Because most home wine makers don't use barrels.

Ever wonder why some of the commercial wines are so rich and fill thicker in your mouth (mouth fill) than your kit wines? Much of the time, that's from barrel concentration! If you want better mouth fill with your kits, which notoriously can come out thin, this is the way to get it. 

Yes, depending on the environment, a small barrel can loose almost a 750ml bottle of wine a month to evaporation/concentration. But every time you have to top off, the wine inside just gets thicker and better.

If you keep it topped off, you won't have any "problems" with oxidation; what you WILL have is all the "advantages" of oxidation - controlled micro-oxidation.


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## robie (Feb 2, 2011)

Just to add - once the oakiness of a barrel is gone, that barrel can last many years as a concentrator. As Mike said, just drop in some oak beans, just like you would in a carboy, while still getting the benefits of concentration.

IMO, if one is disappointed in the difference between their nice, premium wine kit wine and a similar, expensive commercial wine, try a barrel.


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## thunderhill (Feb 14, 2011)

*Barrels*

I just racked 6 gallons of WE SL Merlot into bottles. The wine sat in a carboy for 16 1/2 months, then in a 5 gallon barrel for 1 1/2 months. We tasted both the wine from the barrel and the remaining wine in the .375 bottles and could taste the difference. The barreled wine was fuller and smoother.

Now I just need my boys to buy me more barrels. I will break down and buy my own if necessary, but the results speak for themselves.


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## Teamsterjohn (Feb 14, 2011)

I have the same barrel as you can see. I love it, it has not leaked one drop so far. You will need to top it off every now and then. More now then (then) lol.


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