# Two Viogniers, two different wines, let the judges decide



## NorCal (Apr 19, 2019)

The back story is: @4score and I went in on a half ton of Viognier last year. We crushed, pressed and settled the grape juice at my house and then we parted ways. 

23.7 brix, 3.5 pH, I used D47 yeast and beta mlf with a final pH of 3.6. I aged in glass, 1 med oak spiral per carboy. The result was a sharp tasting, undrinkable in my view. I associated due to the high TA. I added 1.5 g/l potassium bicarbonate as a last resort and dropped the sharpness substantially. In my view made the wine drinkable.

I shared what I did with @4score, he chose to not be as heavy handed as I and bottled as is.

Both wines are being entered in the CA State Fair tomorrow. We have a bet. Who ever gets a higher ribbon owes the other a bottle of Viognier. A tie we swap.


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## sour_grapes (Apr 19, 2019)

Is that a Sunbeam brake drum? Seems very wide!


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## mainshipfred (Apr 19, 2019)

NorCal said:


> The back story is: @4score and I went in on a half ton of Viognier last year. We crushed, pressed and settled the grape juice at my house and then we parted ways.
> 
> 23.7 brix, 3.5 pH, I used D47 yeast and beta mlf with a final pH of 3.6. I aged in glass, 1 med oak spiral per carboy. The result was a sharp tasting, undrinkable in my view. I associated due to the high TA. I added 1.5 g/l potassium bicarbonate as a last resort and dropped the sharpness substantially. In my view made the wine drinkable.
> 
> ...



That's some high stakes gambling!


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## NorCal (Apr 19, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> Is that a Sunbeam brake drum? Seems very wide!


@sour_grapes , you are definitely a car guy! 

It is from the Sunbeam Alpine I bought, but it is not a Sunbeam brake shoe. It has a Ford V6, 4 speed and rearend from a 70’s Capri.


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## sour_grapes (Apr 19, 2019)

It's good to know a '70s Capri is good for _some_thing.


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## 4score (Apr 19, 2019)

Well, I think you've over-simplified my end of the winemaking. In fact, another difference is that I used Prelude non-sac yeast for a minimal 2-brix reduction (24.5 to 22.5) before introducing D47 yeast to finish the job. I sampled part of my batch with American oak but chose to go without oak on the majority. Also, tried MLF, but it never completed and I gave up (SO2 and bottled). I rather prefer the zesty acidic punch. I felt I let the wine stay generally what it wanted to to become with gentle urging. My hands were like angel wings....light and whispy.


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## NorCal (Apr 19, 2019)

4score said:


> Well, I think you've over-simplified my end of the winemaking. In fact, another difference is that I used Prelude non-sac yeast for a minimal 2-brix reduction (24.5 to 22.5) before introducing D47 yeast to finish the job. I sampled part of my batch with American oak but chose to go without oak on the majority. Also, tried MLF, but it never completed and I gave up (SO2 and bottled). I rather prefer the zesty acidic punch. I felt I let the wine stay generally what it wanted to to become with gentle urging. My hands were like angel wings....light and whispy.



lol


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## Chuck E (May 7, 2019)

4score said:


> Well, I think you've over-simplified my end of the winemaking. In fact, another difference is that I used Prelude non-sac yeast for a minimal 2-brix reduction (24.5 to 22.5) before introducing D47 yeast to finish the job. I sampled part of my batch with American oak but chose to go without oak on the majority. Also, tried MLF, but it never completed and I gave up (SO2 and bottled). I rather prefer the zesty acidic punch. I felt I let the wine stay generally what it wanted to to become with gentle urging. My hands were like angel wings....light and whispy.



Can I buy Prelude in small quantities? 500 grams is too much for a home wine maker.


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## 4score (May 8, 2019)

Another manufacturer makes a Torulaspora delbrueckii called BioDiva (same as Prelude). You may try searching for that. Good luck.


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## Chuck E (May 8, 2019)

4score said:


> Another manufacturer makes a Torulaspora delbrueckii called BioDiva (same as Prelude). You may try searching for that. Good luck.



Thanks!


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## NorCal (May 8, 2019)

Results from the Fair in two weeks.....drumroll please.


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## mainshipfred (May 8, 2019)

NorCal said:


> Results from the Fair in two weeks.....drumroll please.



My first entry results should be on the 18th. Can't wait!


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## Chuck E (May 9, 2019)

4score said:


> Another manufacturer makes a Torulaspora delbrueckii called BioDiva (same as Prelude). You may try searching for that. Good luck.



I ordered a couple packages from White Labs on their "From the Vault" program. It's a contingency program, whereby if they get enough orders, they will make the run to fulfill the orders. It might not be here in time for my spring ferments, but hopefully for fall. 

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault


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## mainshipfred (May 9, 2019)

Chuck E said:


> I ordered a couple packages from White Labs on their "From the Vault" program. It's a contingency program, whereby if they get enough orders, they will make the run to fulfill the orders. It might not be here in time for my spring ferments, but hopefully for fall.
> 
> https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault



Chuck, you're a braver man than I. Considering they primarily concentrate on brew yeasts I would be skeptical. Not to mention the only White Labs product I ever used was an MLB that never worked even after 5 tries.


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## Boatboy24 (May 9, 2019)

NorCal said:


> Results from the Fair in two weeks.....drumroll please.



That's a heckuva long drum roll...


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## sour_grapes (May 9, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> That's a heckuva long drum roll...



Where's John Bonham when you need him?


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## Boatboy24 (May 9, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> Where's John Bonham when you need him?




Ted Zeppelin:


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## sour_grapes (May 9, 2019)

Where's the anti-like button?


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## Chuck E (May 10, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> Ted Zeppelin:



You can't UNSEE this! Arrrgh.


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## cmason1957 (May 10, 2019)

Chuck E said:


> You can't UNSEE this! Arrrgh.



Why would you want to. Made me go tell my computer to play a bunch of their songs while I work. Good Memories, well not many of them, college in the 70's and all that.


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## Chuck E (May 10, 2019)

cmason1957 said:


> Why would you want to. Made me go tell my computer to play a bunch of their songs while I work. Good Memories, well not many of them, college in the 70's and all that.



Umm, did you look at their faces?


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## cmason1957 (May 10, 2019)

Chuck E said:


> Umm, did you look at their faces?


Not easy to see on this little phone.


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## sour_grapes (May 10, 2019)

cmason1957 said:


> Why would you want to.



Umm, did you actually LOOK at the picture? 


Edited: Ooops, didn't see that Chuck beat me to it.


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## NorCal (May 24, 2019)

The judges have spoken. Both wines received Silver medals. We will get the judges notes in a week or two.


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## NorCal (May 24, 2019)

Hey @4score, we could have the tie-breaker be the individual judges scores: if someone received individual scores of Silver, Bronze, Silver (Silver overall) and the other received Gold, Silver, Silver (Silver overall), the winner would be the higher individual score (3 points gold, 2 points silver, 1 point bronze). 

In my upbringing, not everyone won a trophy. In contests, someone wins and someone loses and it's ok to lose.


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## cmason1957 (May 24, 2019)

It a hard to call a silver medal losing. I know, I know. Maybe the high avg. Score wins?


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## NorCal (May 31, 2019)

Just got the individual judges notes. Judge 1 gave it a *GOLD*, "Very Nice, very enjoyable to drink". Judge 2 gave it a *SILVER*, "top notch, great acid, a good Viognier". Judge 3 gave in *NO AWARD*, "perfume, hair spray taste + clove". 

So, there you go. Someone loved it, someone liked it and someone hated it. My score totals 3+2 = 5. We will see what @4score individual sheets tally up to.


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## cmason1957 (May 31, 2019)

NorCal said:


> Just got the individual judges notes. Judge 1 gave it a *GOLD*, "Very Nice, very enjoyable to drink". Judge 2 gave it a *SILVER*, "top notch, great acid, a good Viognier". Judge 3 gave in *NO AWARD*, "perfume, hair spray taste + clove".
> 
> So, there you go. Someone loved it, someone liked it and someone hated it. My score totals 3+2 = 5. We will see what @4score individual sheets tally up to.




Wow, I guess they didn't all taste at the same time and weren't sitting at a table where the judges could discuss the scores. When my club used to run a competition, if the scores differed by that much, we would ask the judges to discuss why they scored as they did and try to convince them to come to a consensus score. That one just leaves you scratching your head.


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## NorCal (May 31, 2019)

I think they do the same. A panel of three judges. Each score individually, then they come up with an overall. In my case Silver.


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## mainshipfred (May 31, 2019)

I had a similar experience with my entries. Bronze for one and nothing for the other but the score and comments were all over the place.


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## Kraffty (Jun 3, 2019)

my favorite (pissed me off at the time) was 4 judges for a strawberry wine. 3 judges gave it gold with glowing comments, the fourth scored so low he didn't give it even an honorable mention. One of his comments was "Not enough Apple flavor".... WTF.... Ended up with a Silver medal but still...... Can you question the judges results when they're obviously that out of touch or confused?
Mike


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## 4score (Jun 4, 2019)

Scored a gold, and 2 silvers. What's the prize again?


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## NorCal (Jun 4, 2019)

4score said:


> Scored a gold, and 2 silvers. What's the prize again?



The prize is a deck of memory cards and one of my inferior Viognier’s


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