# Lilacs



## Pepere (May 9, 2006)

Okay all you profs. out there. 


The wife and I just picked about 5 quarts of fresh Lilacs, got them off the stems, bagged and into the freezer. Now I know these little flowers are suppose to make a very nice wine. Any ideas???







This will be my first scratch wine so all suggestions will be seriously taken. I think I have enough for a gallon batch.






The grasshopper awaits instruction.


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## Bert (May 9, 2006)

Sounds like it would make a nice wine...the lilacs I mean..I have never made it , but on Jack Keller's web there are two recipes.


http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques91.asp


I'm sure there are others too...good luck


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## PolishWineP (May 9, 2006)

Check out this one too.


http://mywinerecipes.medicalserver.org/winerecipes.cgi


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## pkcook (May 10, 2006)

Pepere,


Contact Martina (Medpretzel); I believe the site PWP provided is her's. She has made more wines from flowers than anyone I know of. She could provide some valuable information I'm sure!


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## sally3 (May 10, 2006)

Some of us at Winestock had the good fortune to acquire a bottle of
Martina's Lilac wine. We were sitting in the lobby of the Inn and
figured that the label was Martina's and the wine was her Lilac.
(somehow the label has gotten moist and was difficult to read).
It is very unusual and I was soooo happy to have the opportunity to try
it. Although I can't imagine pairing it with anything in my
kitchen, it is well worth taking the time and effort to make.
Good luck and thanks Martina! Sally3


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## PolishWineP (May 10, 2006)

Yes, _someone_ didn't have their glasses with her...


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## MedPretzel (May 10, 2006)

Thank you for the compliment. 


I think it's a wine that is unusual, yet tastes pretty good (just one glass - more is too much). Smells even better.


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## peterCooper (May 10, 2006)

I am sooooooooo..... jealous


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## MedPretzel (May 11, 2006)

Pepere,





You're going to have enough for 1 gallon.


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## sally3 (May 11, 2006)

Yep, that darn "glasses" thing. I'm the Dollar Store's best customer.


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## masta (May 11, 2006)

Maybe I should have had my drinking glasses on in the lobby Saturday night so the Inn didn't end up with a Crushendo stain on the carpet!


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## Pepere (May 11, 2006)

MP:


I understand I have enough for one gallon. Now I see two different recip. One calls for a white grape concentrate one calls for an extra 1/2lb of sugar no concentrate. Which of these would you suggest. 


I also noticed there are no instructions for fining other than racking. No chemicals or isinglass ect.....






I know you're the maker of all wines with flowers and I'm willing to bet they're all great. "Grasshopper" awaits direction from Lady with great experience and knowledge before attempting first scratch wine.


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## sally3 (May 11, 2006)

Hummmm, I know nothing, I saw nothing!



Must remember to pack straws next time.


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## OilnH2O (May 15, 2006)

How'sthe lilac winecoming? Gotta admit: the neighbors are in Germany andwe're watching their house -- and they have about ten 10-foot tall purple lilac bushes along their back fence -- just coming into full flower here in God's Country. 


As I was checking their place today, I spied those lilacs andI thought...hmmm... lilacs... wonder how Pepere's wine is coming... wonder if they'd miss some of those blooms!


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## Pepere (May 15, 2006)

I picked and cleaned all the flower petalsand put them in the freezer. I haven't started yet because I'm on travel to N.H. and Rhode Island this week and next,Also there are two recp and I'm not sure which one to use. One uses an extra 1/2lb of sugar and the other a white grape concentrate.


My advice, pick four or five quarts and freeze them. You'd be amazed at how much is actually on one good sized lilac bush. Of course with that many lilac bushes you have enough for gallons I'm sure. I think the recp. calls for four qts per gallon. (not sure about that) but that's close.


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## djcoop (May 15, 2006)

oilnh20, 


I don't think they would mind, as long as you shared the wine!!


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## OilnH2O (May 17, 2006)

Ok, pic's later. But, I took the plunge, and raided the neighbor's lilacs! 


I harvested much more than I needed -- two 2.5 gallon buckets of blooms. I found it's best to pick blooms in whichall the flowers have opened rather than some still in the bud stage. I'm using Jack Keller's recipe no. 2 which uses the Welch's grape juice. 


I found that one full bucket of blooms (I'm talking about the whole head here)seemed to produce enough petals called for in the recipe. But that is still a LOT! I'm sure others know that the bloom you see on the bush is actually dozens of individual, 4-petaled flowers, each with a small stem.






I've now learned much more about lilacs than I ever wanted! When the flower heads are pulled from the peduncle (the stem) it left the stamens and pistils on the stem. There was a little bit of nectar in some, but that mostly made sticky fingers. This is a tedious process but interesting until you realize that after an hour of processing, you've still got a long way to go! But, except for the occasional broken stem I got the petals in the primary and the water boiled, poured over as called for, and left it for 48 hours.


Pepere, if you've notstarted, I'd suggest that you put the flowers inastraining bag and then put the bag in the primary. That is assuming the boiling water isn't going to melt thebag -- I used nylon -- but I'm sure someone will point out if I'm wrong!That would be easier than the way I did it, which required straining into another (sanitized) container (with the nylon bag) then transferring back to the primary! 


Martina, like Pepere I await your wisdom.



Just don't tell me I could have just thrown the whole bloom in, stems and all! I can see why you'd make this a gallon at a time!






But, I'm on the way!


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## MedPretzel (May 18, 2006)

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been under the weather.


Both recipes are similar, the one with welch's gives you more body/grapiness. The one with apple concentrate gives you a light, aperatif-like wine. Both, however, is not for drinking more than one glass. It's very good, but just one glass of it.





Therefore, I would bottle in 375 ml. 


Personally, (I've never tried it) I would probably try to add a can of concord - to give it a purple tinge. A white wine made of lilacs was somewhat disappointing. 


Again, sorry for the delay.


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## OilnH2O (May 18, 2006)

Pictures --


Here is the neighbor's fence -- only HALF of it! Notice this is _after harvest_ andwith selective cutting. _They'll_ _never know blossoms are missing!



_








Here is the must after 48 hours of steeping but_before_ petals were strained.








And, here is the must _after_ straining, all ingredients added, and yeast pitched! GO YEASTIES!


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## MedPretzel (May 18, 2006)

Nice!


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## Pepere (May 18, 2006)

I'm sitting in a hotel in Connecticut marveling at OilnH20's progress.




10-4 on the sticky fingers.



(Thur. 18 May)


I have N.H. fri and sat move on to R.I. Sunday and Mondayand head back home lateon Tues. As soon as I can catch my breath I'll check out the lilac recp. and get it started up. I have enough for a gallon batch and will proceed accordingly.


I will heed MedP's advice and add 12oz can of concord. My lilacs could use the color as the variety we have is more white than purple. I suspect it will add some body as well. In any event OilnH20 your looking good my friend.


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## Pepere (May 18, 2006)

MedPretzel said:


> Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been under the weather.




Noting serious I hope?






Can't have one of the proffessorial staff down and out.



Hope your feeling better.


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## B M W (May 18, 2006)

OilnH20,


Looking good



and looks like a lot of work, but I bet it will be well worth the time. I can't believe how far behind our spring is here, my lilacs haven't even bloomed yet. The bush in front of my office in Deer Lodge started blooming yesterday. I love the smell, so I bet the wine will be good. 


I'm waiting for the rhubarb to mature to start some rhubarb wine, it should be ready in a week or so.


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## OilnH2O (May 18, 2006)

Wow, BMW! 


Our lilacs are better than the last few years, especially with the 90's and low humidity -- I stress for our friends on the forum -- the LOW humidity! (It was higha few days agoat 27 percent!).


I'm doing a painting for Grant Kohrs and their big celebration at the end of the month so have been making the drive severaltimes over the last month-- but its been a beautiful spring/summerthere too! Watch out for sunburn!


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## OilnH2O (May 23, 2006)

Update!


Here is the lilac wine after 5 days in the primary and the first racking. It has a0.992 specific gravity. The harvest area is in the background!












The taste is pretty sharp, not an unpleasant aroma, but it doesn't smell like lilacs -- more fruity almost. Pepere -- these vacation road trips are cutting into your real work!


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## pkcook (May 23, 2006)

OilnH2O,


What a beautiful color



. I'm sure the taste will be just as good!


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## rgecaprock (May 23, 2006)

Beautiful, colors!!!! Made me a little dizzy looking down!!! Nice mountains in the background!!!! Ramona


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## peterCooper (May 23, 2006)

Can you do anything with Azalea blossoms?


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## peterCooper (May 23, 2006)

Thank you google.

Azalea
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
?
Azalea

Rhododendron 'Hinodegiri'
Scientific classification
Kingdomlantae
Division:Magnoliophyta
Class:Magnoliopsida
Order:Ericales
Family:Ericaceae
Genus:Rhododendron
Subgenusentanthera

Source: The Rhododendron page, and some research.
Azaleas are flowering shrubs making up part of the genus Rhododendron. 
Originally azaleas were classed as a different genus of plant, but now they 
are recognised as two of the eight sub-genera of rhododendrons - 
subgenus Pentanthera (deciduous) typified by Rhododendron nudiflorum, 
and subgenus Tsutsusi (evergreen) typified by Rhododendron tsutsusi.

One of the major differences between azaleas and the rest of the 
rhododendron family is their size. Another is their flower growth. 
Rhododendrons grow their flowers in clusters, while most azaleas have 
terminal blooms (one flower per flower stem). However, they have so 
many stems that during the flowering season they are a solid mass of 
colour. Azaleas are recognised by these flowers blooming all at once, in a 
showy display for a month or two in spring. The exception to this rule is a 
small group of azaleas which grow their flowers in tight terminal clusters 
that look like little balls of colour.

Plant enthusiasts have created hybrid azaleas for hundreds of years. This 
human genetic modification has produced over 10,000 different cultivars 
which are propagated by cuttings. For a thorough discussion of some of 
the species and plant care, see this link. Azalea seeds can also be 
collected and germinated.

Azaleas grow best in well-drained acidic garden soil or in plant pots, in a 
cool, shady position. Fertilizer is optional, although some species do need 
regular pruning.

A traditional alcoholic beverage made from azalea blossoms, called 
dugyeonju (???, literally "azalea wine"), is produced in Korea.


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## masta (May 24, 2006)

Awesome looking wine and unbelievable background of your view from the deck I presume!


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## Pepere (May 24, 2006)

Man: the wine looks great!!!






OilnH2O: I wish they were vacation trips. I got a good look at the Merrimack River in Manchester NH and it looked like a class five rapids run after all of that rain. Spent two nights in Providence/Warwick and had a great dinner at Hemenways. I'm sure Masta knows where that is! We got back late last night and I found my Green Apple Riesling stuck at 1.030 and not a bubble to be found. I gave a stir from the bottom up and an hour later I had things rolling again. I thought I had messed up for sure by adding the extra sugar but, everything is working again so I'll keep my fingers crossed.


We leave this weekend for Western Maryland for an event Sat. and a stay at the cabin. Later in June I'm off to Burlington VT. Drive up on Tuesday drive back on Thur. turn myself in for a battery charge and hope I can make it to Tampa on June 30th to July 7th. Come on November!!!!






This is all getting in the way of my wine making I can tell you that. One good note out of all this. The Chianti has cleared beautifully and I'm going to let it set a while longer.(Heck I won't be here to play with itany way!) While we were gone the Vieux Chateau du Roi arrived and as soon as my primary is clear I'll get that kit started. Any volunteers to be my valet the next two months???


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## OilnH2O (May 24, 2006)

Masta, it is the view in one direction from our deck (to the southwest) -- the views to the west and north are as nice, given that we look over Missoula. I thought the picture of the lilacs in the background would be a nice addition. Ramona, I know it's not Houston-flat, but BMW's got the real mountains nearby!


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## rgecaprock (May 25, 2006)

OilnH20,


Do you have a website where we can look at you artwork? What are you painting?


Ramona


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## OilnH2O (May 25, 2006)

My website is "parked" with godaddy until I get some time to get something going on it! Every now and then I change my avatar to something new -- I paint in oils and watercolors -- hence, "Oil and Water!"








Dave


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## Pepere (May 26, 2006)

OilnH2O:


I tried oils and then I tried watercolors. Alas, I am afflicted with "LOT"


"Lack Of Talent."






Having given it a go, I do so appreciate most artists. Would love to see your work. I hope you get the website up soon so we might all enjoy your talents.


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## Pepere (Jun 7, 2006)

OilnH20:


Well, I've been working on wine today and I have the lilacs in boiling water.................finally!! I'm off again friday before leaving for Delaware Sat a.m. so I'll have her going before I leave for Vermont on Monday.


I opted for the red grape concentrate as recomended by "Med" so the color will be a bit different. I'll take pictures as soon as I have it in the gallon jug. How is your Lilac wine coming along??


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## OilnH2O (Jun 7, 2006)

I think its looking good... a pale red and starting to clear although still hazy. There's a few "floaties" of some sort on the the surface...hope that's nothing to worry about! I'll be racking again around June 23... I'll take a pic after that! 


Good idea for the red grape concentrate!



Take some pic'sof yours!


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## Pepere (Jun 8, 2006)

Flowers are still "steeping." I'll have it under glass by Fri afternoon. I'll get some pix and post them before I leave on my next series of "vacation" trips. (don't I wish)


From what I've read the floaties are a common phenom. I suspect they'll end up on the bottom before too long.


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## MedPretzel (Jun 8, 2006)

Sounds like everything's under control.
 








Don't worry about the floaties.They'll fall to the bottom, as Pepere said. 





Good on the red concentrate. You'll be happier you used them than if you didn't.





Can't wait to see the pics!





M.


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## Pepere (Jun 8, 2006)

Med,


I'm thinking I'll bottle in 375's. From what I'm reading a full 750 might be a bit much at one sitting. With the flowers steeping the aromamakes fora very strong lilac bouquetin our kitchen.


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## Pepere (Jun 9, 2006)

OilnH20:


starting sg was 1.078. first pic are flowers steeping









2nd pic is strained must with just a few floaties.








last pic all but yeast added. I think the red grape concentrate lends to a rather nice color.








I will run errands and pitch yeast later today.


Thanks to you and Med I've embarked on my first scratch flowered wine. Is there no end to the madness.


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## OilnH2O (Jun 9, 2006)

GREAT color -- beats that "pink slushy" look mine first had!


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## MedPretzel (Jun 10, 2006)

Pepere said:


> Thanks to you and Med I've embarked on my first scratch flowered wine. Is there no end to the madness.




Nope, sorry.














There is no end.


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## Pepere (Jun 11, 2006)

Here's a first racking pic of the lilac. Somewhat different color than OilnH20 but suspect that is due to the red grape concentrate.








I did notice a slight bitterness to this wine but will wait the six to eight months and the several more rackings before passing judgment. Sure is a pretty color though.


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## OilnH2O (Jun 13, 2006)

Make sure you check out (on the General Wine section "specific gravity residue) my problems I'm encountering with those "floaties" I mentioned some time back. I'm on "hold" with the lilac wine until I can get some good advice!


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## MedPretzel (Jun 14, 2006)

Rack it, put a campden tablet in it, and then see what happens. 














M.


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## OilnH2O (Jun 14, 2006)

Martina, 


I racked it -- but didn't put a campden tablet in it -- here's my thought process. I made the same mistake with the Lilac that I did with the rhubarb (that LONNNG story is over on the 'yeast forum') -- and that was to measure a 1/4 tsp of K-Meta POWDER into the must instead of a campden tab. However, unlike the rhubarb, the lilac did ferment pretty vigorously -- but I figure it has LOTS of free SO2 in it...so I didn't add more.


Now, YOU are the Experienced One - if you think it needs another campden tab I'll put 'er in! But, that was my thought process....


Dave*Edited by: OilnH2O *


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## Pepere (Jun 16, 2006)

Got back late last night from Vt.






The lilac looks good and I've not experienced the "floaties" that OilnH20 has, at least not yet. I am working on wine projects today and will rack it after I rack my "chateau" and get a better idea of where it is. I hope that sharpness or bitterness is gone






My G. A. Riesling is ready to bottle but might not get to it today. I did steal a taste last night. Yes, the little fat guy from Maryland did real good. Added 2lb of sugar and half the "F-pack" to the primary.



Need I say more? Okay..........yummie!


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## Pepere (Jun 20, 2006)

OilnH20:


I haven't heard much about your lilac lately. Did the campden tab solve your problem?






My lilac has been just sitting there now for the better part of a week. All fermentation has ceased and it actually looks like it's starting to clear. It smells fine but I haven't tasted it since the first racking. I'll wait a few more weeks then rack it off again and sneek a taste at that time.


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## MedPretzel (Jun 20, 2006)

Okay, 





Sorry, somehow this one was overlooked...again....



I'd say put in the campden tablet anyway. But if you don't, put it in at the next racking. You are going to vigorously stir it eventually, so a lot will go out thru that. Yes, you added a lot at the beginning, but it seems your still okay, since fermentation took place. Taste it. It's important to do so. If it tastes bitter (i.e. not normal wine bitterness), go easy on the campden, otherwise, add one every other time you rack, if you rack often.





Smell it: does it smell okay? It should smell like lilacs. Come on, people, you've tasted my lilac wine - you've smelled it too. It does remind you of lilacs, doesn't it?








Pepe:






I would taste it. It smells better than it tastes, but the smell should be of lilac and excellent and the taste should be "fruity". I cannot really say more about it since it's been a while since I've had it.





Gotta run,





M.


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## OilnH2O (Jun 24, 2006)

Martina and All,


Here is the Lilac today -- the wispy, lava-lamp-like stuff appears to have consolidated into something more white and solid, but still floating.








You can see from this next one that the haziness is still there, and there are a few very small white dots floating around as well. Seems like when the consolidation occurs, they go to the top. Was last racked on the 14th.








I'm still open to any and all advice! (By the way, it is still putting off a bubble every few minutes through the airlock....)


Dave*Edited by: OilnH2O *


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## MedPretzel (Jun 24, 2006)

First of all, beautiful landscape.









Secondly, the wine:





*Rack it.* I forget if you used campden tabs or k-meta. If campden tabs, it almost looks like they weren't completely crushed. Something's coming out of suspension, and floats to the top. Not to worry, it's nothing bad, from what it looks like. (Aside that I'm also looking at the beatuiful mountains in the back) As long as your keep racking, you'll be fine, I think.


*Smell it.* Good, bad, rotten? I have a feeling if it's fine, it smells fine too.


*Taste it.* Just a sip, and tell me what you think of it. Is it off, is it young, is it okay (granted, I know you've never made lilac wine, but you can get a jist if something's off or not.). 


*Calm down.*



This is definitely NOT mold or anything terrible. Just strange, but not terrible. If you can say, "It's pretty normal," for the above statements, you'll be fine.


I hope this helps!





M.


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## Pepere (Jun 24, 2006)

No pictures of my lilac: I'm a couple of weeks behind H20 and won't be racking again until my return from Tampa around July 9th. However;


*Smell: *definite Lilac smell and a hint of the red grape as well.


*Taste: *What I initially mistook for "bitter" I believe now to be more a "hot" taste, maybe young and fairly dry. As I sit here there is a definite lilac flavor in the back of my mouth which lingers awhile. Interesting and now has my interest.


I did not experiance the floaties and the color is a bit deeper red because of the red concentrate used. I guess now only time will tell.


Grasshopper thanks Ms "M"


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## OilnH2O (Jun 25, 2006)

Will rack again, and another campden tablet -- and I'm not worried, because the aroma seems fine -- and the taste, while not unpleasant, does have a "bite" to it, especially on the back of the mouth. The aroma and taste are little changed from the start, so I think I'm okay... and just practicing patience!


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## MedPretzel (Jun 25, 2006)

Both of you describe a typical country, or scratch, wine.









As long as you keep in mind that it's a "young'in," you'll be fine. The bite or hotness you describe is just from a very young wine. Once it's clear and stabilized and all that, bottle it and PUT IT AWAY for at least one year (good time to open it? When you make Lilac wine next year)!!!





Keep me posted. I'm certainly interested in this one, if I do say so myself.


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## Pepere (Jun 27, 2006)

Ms M:


Any success with this wine is because of your help. Needless to say when it's ready I'll figure out a way to send you a split of "Lilac Marinade" for approval.


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## OilnH2O (Aug 4, 2006)

Martina and Pepere-


Lilac Update: I've left the lilac sit since June 29 -- and watched white stuff reappear -- a sort of hard residue around the edge where the liquid meets the bottle neck. And the wine isstill hazy. Amazingly, I noticed today the top 1/4 inch of the surface of the wine had the "lava lamp" stuff in suspension. When I would gently rock the "carboy" (a Carlo Rossi 1 gal jug!) from side to side, it would move around and then start to drop in a loose, lava-lamp-like clump and just sit there. I think it then rises ever so slowly back to the surface.


I racked again today -- I did NOT add another campden tab (I added one on June 29) -- and added a gelatin solution as a clarifier and left probably a liter or so in the bottom of the first jug, so it would not get into the new jug. I topped up with chardonnay. 


I didn't even try to taste that residue so have no idea of the taste -- the smell is the same as it has always been -- not unpleasant, but NOT smelling like lilac blossoms either.


On the Winepress site Jack Keller asked me to take some pic's -- but my digital just cannot focus that closely to show anything other than "cloudy" wine -- but he seemed intrigued none-the-less -- but stumped too.


I hope Pepere's had better luck!






Dave


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## Pepere (Aug 7, 2006)

H2O and Ms Med:


Sorry I've been AWOL, just too many trips to take before Nov.


Update on Lilac. Well, it smells like Lilac wine.






I just racked it for the second time and added one Campden tab. (this is the first cam tab I've added by the way). It's taking its jolly ol' time clearing but, it is clearing. 


Taste: well, it's different. Never having made a country wine before I can only guess that's it is just fine, very young and a tad bitter other than that it certainly has potential. Sorry to say I've not had the experience that H2O has been having with his floatie thingies and I can't say as I miss 'em!






I'll just have to wait 'til next year and see what the final product tastes like. Sure smells nice though. Lilac and a hint of red grape. I'll post a pic when I get a new battery for the digital.






Pepere


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## MedPretzel (Aug 9, 2006)

Sorry to have missed this post (again)... I think I'm blind.


Oil: Don't worry. Nothing fatal with the wine. I think I might have the same problem with my wine. (Uh, Sage, I think). It MIGHT (and I'm only speaking out of what I did differently on this batch) be a surplus of sulfite (I used juice instead of concentrate, DUH), or some other preservative in over-abundance. 


Now, I filtered one of the jugs (3 of them in all), and the stuff hasn't come back... yet... it's been like this for a month or so now.


It almost looks like the skin of milk when you heat it up. (Mine does)


So, I am going to say - only on a whim - and I don't know if it will hurt/help it: Stir the beegeezus out of it. splash it around when racking, make sure it gets lots of agitation. I'd shake the carboy/jug, I'd rack it... If all else fails, I'd filter it. If you don't have a filter, that's okay. I think a coffee filter in a funnel would work. But this is just a hunch.....


My sage wine tastes okay, what about the lilac?


Pepe,


You did everything right. It sounds like it's doin' what it should. Enjoy your trips!






M.


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## MedPretzel (Aug 9, 2006)

Just another note: (I re-read your post)


It's hazy? Hmmmm...


Like, supercloudy hazy, or has it gotten better?


If it has gotten better, you're okay. Just a normal process of clearing.


If it's still as cloudy as it was when you racked it to glass, we've got a larger problem on our hands.


If the latter, I would suggest sparkelloid or even superkleer. The latter of the two is probably a better "all-around" clearing agent. If you started this wine in april/may, and it's somewhat better than when you started, you're being impatient.






It's only 4-5 months old.


Fine Wine Takes Time. 


Now, the cloudiness otherwise (if it's as murky as it was when you started, or only slightly better), would mean we have another problem - namely a pectin haze. Now I think this is almost non-existant in lilac wine, but.... not impossible. Superkleer should help you with that as well. As much as it can. Pectin haze is something that you can't really get 100 % rid of. You could try filtering, but it's still not the best.


You might also have to take an SG reading. 0.990? or is it higher? If higher, you might still be fermenting, and don't worry about it if it is. Then we're okay. You've got time! You may be impatient, but you've got time.


As in my previous post, I think this film you're seeing is something of a preservative. I used a bottled-white-grape-juice on my sage, and have something quite similar. I can't figure it out yet what it exactly is, but I have a feeling sulfites are the culprit. (Hence the stirring advice)


You should still try to get the gunk out - and note when you did so, and when you see the film again. If the intervals get longer in between, you'll know it 's just a matter of time. You might want to try a turkey baster or pipette if you don't feel like racking (properly sterilized, mind you!)


Hope this helps,





IT sounds fine, though. Don't worry about it. I tasted my sage, and it was pretty darn good, for being such a green wine!

M.


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