# A few beginners questions....



## Beta_Grumm (Aug 2, 2009)

Hi. 

This is my first ever attempt at wine making. I purchased a small 1 gallon kit just to get the basic equipment. It even came with a cool little recipe book.

I'm making a concord table wine from juice.
I don't have the recipie in front of me but I belive it was something to teh effect of:
3 pts juice
5 pts water
3 1/2 sugar
nutrient
acid blend
pectin enzyme
maybe somehting else, I dont remeber.
I'm adding the yeast tonight at around 8pm. (24 hours later)

Anyways, the recipie doesnt say to put the air lock on the primary fermenter. It does say to put it on the secondary.
My question is, is that right? In my mind you would not want that left exposed for the 5 days to a week that its going to be in the primary. I brew beer with a friend and we always air lock when fermenting.
Also, I've never used a hydrometer before. To test it I just used the little plastic tube that it came it. Is there a better way / container to use or will that work. I got a reading of 1.082.

Anyhow, great forums. I'm sure I'll be asking many more questions. 
Thanks.


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## BettyJ (Aug 2, 2009)

Welcome aboard! I am fairly new to winemaking, but will try to help....

The primary is usually a bucket with enough headspace to allow the fermenting wine to bubble up. This is where most of the fermentation will occur and there is little danger of oxygen (O2) getting into the wine when it is putting off this much CO2 gas. After the 5 days (or so - this is an estimate) you should transfer to a carboy (secondary) with an airlock and top up so that you have little headspace. The rationale here is that there is still a little fermentation activity, so you need a way for CO2 to be released without introducing O2 which will spoil the wine.

Sound like your SG reading is in line with what you should expect, so now you are able to track the fermentation though SG readings along the way.


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## Tom (Aug 2, 2009)

1st welcome to a great forum!
2nd Betty is right you just need to "cover the primary after that under airlock. Please post the recipe so \we can help you better aslo, GOTO "UserCP" and enter your location.


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## Wade E (Aug 2, 2009)

Welcome and glad you made it here. During the first few days of a fermentation its actually good to get plenty of 02 into your wine and you do not need to put the lid and an airlock on but you should have some kind of cover or cloth on there to make sure that no bugs can get at the must. Once you get to an sg of around 1.030 you will want to get it under airlock. As far as using the hydro, there are better options for testing it in, I use a Wine thief for doing that as It can extract the wine from a carboy without having to pour it.


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## St Allie (Aug 2, 2009)

waves hello.

Allie


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## smurfe (Aug 2, 2009)

You can insert the airlock if you wish. If you are fermenting in a one gallon jug though it will probably foam up through the airlock. I primary gallon batches in a 2 gallon food grade bucket I got from a local donut shop. I drilled a hole and installed a grommet for an airlock. I normally snap the lid on and ferment. Many ferment open with a cheese cloth over the top of the fermenter. Others, and I do this often, stick an airlock in the grommet but just sit the lid on top the bucket but don't snap it in place during primary fermentation.


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 2, 2009)

Sweet. Good information.
Ok here is the full recipe.

Concord Table wine (from juice)
3 pts Pure Juice
5 pts water
3 1/2 cp sugar
2 tsp acid blend
1/2 tsp Pectic enzyme
1 tsp nutrient
1 campden crushed
1 pkg wine yeast (package says Cote des Blancs on the front. Not really sure if that's the type or what)

1. Stir in all ingredients except yeast. Cover primary.
2. After 24 hours add yeast. Cover primary.
3. Stir daily and check SG.
4. When ferment reaches SG 1030 (5-6 days) siphon wine off sediment into glass secondary. Attach air lock.
5. When ferment is complete (sg has dropped to 1.000 - about 3 weeks) siphon off sediment into clean secondary. Reattach lock.
6. To aid in clearing siphon again in 2 months and again if necessary before bottling.

can be left dry or back sweetened at bottling by adding 1/2 tsp stabilizer and stirring in 1/2 cup dissolved sugar per gallon.

Here's another question, what is this stabilizer they speak of?

EDIT: btw, SG is now 1.098.


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## St Allie (Aug 3, 2009)

stabiliser is potassium sorbate.. 

you add it when all fermentation is finished and it prevents the yeast from fermenting the wine again when you backsweeten it.

Allie


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## ruggierm1 (Aug 3, 2009)

St Allie said:


> stabiliser is potassium sorbate..
> 
> you add it when all fermentation is finished and it prevents the yeast from fermenting the wine again when you backsweeten it.
> 
> Allie



that leads me to ask, that if you don't plan on backsweetening a wine, do you still need to add potassium sorbate? Also, what is th eopinion of when to backsweeten? Should you do it after the wine has had some time to age?


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## Tom (Aug 3, 2009)

Most fruit wines are not aged. So it is reccomended to use sorbate. If you plan on Not adding a f-pac or backsweetening AND you are gonna age for at least 6 months than its not needed.
Rather be safe then have sparkling fruit wine.
Backsweeten after the secondary AND after you added the k-meta and sorbate. After adding the f-pac then add clearing agent.


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## Madriver Wines (Aug 3, 2009)

ruggierm1 said:


> that leads me to ask, that if you don't plan on backsweetening a wine, do you still need to add potassium sorbate? Also, what is th eopinion of when to backsweeten? Should you do it after the wine has had some time to age?


Sorbate is to prevent fermentation from starting back up after adding sugar. I sweeten at the third racking and then let it sit for weeks or a month, rack again and then bottle.


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## St Allie (Aug 3, 2009)

ruggierm1 said:


> that leads me to ask, that if you don't plan on backsweetening a wine, do you still need to add potassium sorbate? Also, what is th eopinion of when to backsweeten? Should you do it after the wine has had some time to age?



Fruit wines generally need at least a year in the bottle before drinking, some take 2 or more years .. unless it is an early drinker recipe and they are usually sweetened. 

If you ferment right out to dry and intend to keep it a year.. add your sulphites before bottling and you won't need the sorbate. If you are sweetening, ferment out to dry , sulphite and sorbate ( in that order), check SG is stable for three days in a row, sweeten to taste and then leave to clear on it's own or start the clearing process with finings a few days later. I prefer to leave my fruit wines to clear on their own.

Allie


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## Tom (Aug 3, 2009)

Allie,
What is Feijoa wine ?
I see it's in your primary.


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## St Allie (Aug 3, 2009)

Tom,

It's also known as the pineapple guava.. but it's not a true guava and they are much bigger.. They are really popular for hedges here, give a really heavy crop of fruit and a commercial fruit wine is available .. it makes a nice white wine. I also have a recipe here made from the flower petals.. but I've never made it.

here's a photo ..

http://www.freshplaza.com/2007/1213/feijoa.jpg

FEATURES: Fruit around the size of an egg remain green when ripe. Their fruity aroma may account for the common name pineapple guava. Perfumed pale cream flesh is high in vitamin C. The flavour a blend of pineapple and strawberry. Attractive plant in flower. 

Allie


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## BettyJ (Aug 3, 2009)

Beautiful fruit and flower - very exotic! Does it taste like pineapple, then? 

I have a riesling (I used half recipe riesling concentrated juice) banana and mango. The strangest thing is that it taste just like pineapple, so I am gonna name it something like "pineapple riesling". I used banana peels also so it is really yellow in color (slow to clear, though). It's dry, so I will sweeten later. 

Wonder why it would taste like pineapple?


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 3, 2009)

Hmm... so if one doesn't sweeten, you bottle and age. 
If one does sweeten you stabilize, bottle, and it can be drank without aging?


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## St Allie (Aug 3, 2009)

it's hard to describe Betty..


Nothing else smells like a feijoa, it's a very strong flavour.. there are different hybrids .. some are larger and some are stronger flavoured.

We have loquats growing wild here too.. flowering now.. am going to get some of those fermenting this year.

Allie


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## St Allie (Aug 3, 2009)

Beta_Grumm said:


> Hmm... so if one doesn't sweeten, you bottle and age.
> If one does sweeten you stabilize, bottle, and it can be drank without aging?





depends on your wine, usually an early drinking wine is sweetened and bottled and you can start drinking that at about 3 months..It's generally a white wine.. they age faster.

Allie


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## Tom (Aug 3, 2009)

Beta_Grumm said:


> Hmm... so if one doesn't sweeten, you bottle and age.
> If one does sweeten you stabilize, bottle, and it can be drank without aging?



Well...
Yes to a point. There are 6 things to remember in making wine.
They are the
3 "T's"
Taste
Taste
Taste
And
3 "P's"
Patience
Patience
Patience
W/ fruit wines you need to make sure fermentation is complete before bottling. By that you will still need to add k-meta and clarify your wine. This can take a few months. Unlike kits which can take 2-3 months before bottling.
Best thing for you to do is check here as you are making your next wine. This way we can give you ideas what to do when from our experience.


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## Wade E (Aug 3, 2009)

As far as that recipe goes, dont go by when the sg reaches 1.000 as some wines will go way below that like to .992 so just wait until you have a stable sg reading for a few days in a row and hats when its done fermenting. At that point I would degas, add sulfite and sorbate(i usre sorbate even when Im not going to sweeten as it has good preservative qualities to it also. Once I have added that I stir it very well and then you can sweeten if you like and then let it clear on its own or add a finingg agent and let it clear.


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 4, 2009)

I just whipped up a 2 gallon batch of a dry mead last night. 
now, locally, they only had 6 gallon primarys.

So instead I got a small 2 gallon pail, but to my knowledge it's not food grade. I didn't really think about this until this morning, how much is that going to affect it? Meaning, will it even be safe to drink?


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## cpfan (Aug 4, 2009)

Check with your nearby ice cream cone shop. They usually have plastic pails to sell/give away. The ones I got are 3 US gallons.

Steve


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## Wade E (Aug 4, 2009)

Its no problem to put a few gallons in a huge primary as headspace at this time is good for more 02. Ive never used a non food grade utensil so I cant say what if anything would happen in the small amount of time it will take for 2 gallons to be ready for carboy.


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 5, 2009)

So I bought an 8 gallon fermenter (I'm hooked. I've made 3 batches of wine in 4 days) and I started a strawberry instant. I tripled the batch for a total of a 3 gallon batch. Now the recipe calls for one campden tablet. Since I tripled the batch I tripled everything else, but I didn't triple the campden. I was kinda thinking in terms of one tab per batch instead of one per gallon. 
Is that true or did I make a mistake? It doesn't say how much one campden tab will actually treat.


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## St Allie (Aug 5, 2009)

one campden tablet per gallon of wine.. so you'll need three in that batch.

Allie


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## Wade E (Aug 5, 2009)

Yep, I agree. 1 tablet per gallon.


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 6, 2009)

Hmm... I posted a reply this morning and it seems to have disappeared. 
No matter. My concord is now in the secondary. 
Now degauss... what is it and whats the best way to go about it? The recipe doesn't say anything about it.

If some one has a good post or article to link me that would be great.

Thanks.


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## Bazin (Aug 6, 2009)

I think you mean Degass.

What degassing does is helps to release any CO2 that is held in suspension within your wine.

There's many ways to do it, and I'm sure the more seasoned folks here can give you all sorts of great tips.

Unfortunately, for me, I'm currently using the manual stirring method.


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## Tom (Aug 6, 2009)

Look @ http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=15262
this attaches to a drill and will do a great job. If you make wine this is a "must" have


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## smurfe (Aug 6, 2009)

Beta_Grumm said:


> Hmm... I posted a reply this morning and it seems to have disappeared.
> No matter. My concord is now in the secondary.
> Now degauss... what is it and whats the best way to go about it? The recipe doesn't say anything about it.
> 
> ...



Many of the recipes floating around many use are very old recipes. For the normal winemaker that was to let it set and it would de-gas naturally with time which could be up to a year or better. In todays world everyone is in a hurry and with the advent of kits, the "quick" wine was developed. Many use the drill mount stir device that works great. Some use vacuum devices, some shake the carboy. If you don't de-gas, you will have fizzy wine.


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 6, 2009)

Is there a reason I can't use Plastic secondary fermenters?

it seems to be common place that plastic is only used to primary.
If I could use plastic for secondary, I could make a lot more wine without having to make such large initial investments.


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## smurfe (Aug 6, 2009)

If you are referring to a water cooler bottle I would advise against for anything long term such as secondary use. They are oxygen permeable. Most say not to use them for a primary either but I have with no problems and don't buy into that bunk. I see nothing wrong with doing a primary fermentation on one. Now if you are referring to a bucket for a secondary, have to advise not to do that either. Too much head space for oxygen contact.


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## Wade E (Aug 6, 2009)

I agree with above post 100% and will add that if yor talking abot the better bottle all is fine for those but my guess is that you are not as they are not cheap either.


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## BettyJ (Aug 6, 2009)

I have to use 5 gallon water bottles for secondary (no access to glass), However I cover /insulate them (except the airlock) from the light and keep them in coolers and over time just rack to another like vessel. My wine is coming out just fine - still too young to get the big bang, but no funny smells or flavors, other than that "young" feel. I try to let the wines clear on their won and bottle when completely clear (usually 3 -4 months at this point). 

These are primarily fruit wines half and half with SunCal grape concentrate juice.


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## Nubz (Aug 6, 2009)

then there is the way i think

people made wine for hundreds of years(some of it very sought after and rare)with worse equipment than some of us have so im not too worried about my plastic stuff


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 8, 2009)

woohoo! 
I have secondaries.
So exciting.
ok here are some pictures:
aww it wont let me post links... well they are viewable in my new album in the gallery.

Anyways, I just racked the strawberry this morning. The little concord has been in a secondary for a few days now and is still bubbling strong.
I should be able to rack the mead in 2 days or so judging by its SG drop rate. It's really been slow in comparison to the others.
I got a good taste of the strawberry while siphoning, pretty good i "must" say. A little yeasty and fizzy, but that's ok. As long as there are no really weird off flavors I'm happy.


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 13, 2009)

Ok. Now my concord is fremented to dry (and is it ever, kinda bitter almost). SG is .992 and holding.

Now if I understand correctly:
Stabilize, back sweeten, rack and re-rack until clear, degaus and then bottle.
Or not stabilize and clear, then back sweeten and clear again and then degaus and bottle.
Does it matter if I back sweeten right away? Is it recommended that I clear before sweetening? What and when do I need to add too it? (e.g. k-meta, sorbate, etc..) What are my dangers? What can I get away with and what do I need to watch out for?
I really don't want to make a stupid mistake and have an absolute mess on my hands that I could have avoided.

I've picked up on quite a few tips lately, but I'm not completely sure when and how they should be applied.

Thanks for all your help so far.


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## Tom (Aug 13, 2009)

1st you want to DEGAS before adding anything. Then add k-meta and sorbate.
Are you planning on a f-pac? Is so do it here. If not then add clearing agents. Rack once a month till clear.
You can add simple syrup anytime before bottling.


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## Wade E (Aug 13, 2009)

Agree 100% with above post! You can sweeten at anytime as long as you have stabiized with both k-meta and sorbate.


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## Beta_Grumm (Aug 13, 2009)

... What's an f-pac?


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## Tom (Aug 13, 2009)

Is a "flavor" pac that you can make. Some of the "mist" kits have them. The purpose id to add flavor. Then you can sweeten it to your taste.
You can do a search here on f-pac's as they have been talked alot here.


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