# Japanese beetle devastation



## sremick (Jul 27, 2019)

So the Japanese beetles got away from me and have entirely defoliated 7 of my 42 new vines planted this year, while only 2' or less tall. A number of other vines are hanging on by a thread, with a few leaves. I'm wondering: if a new vine is hit that hard with all its leaves destroyed so young, can it bounce back or is it a lost cause? Should I be scrambling to try and replace these vines ASAP this season?

I've had some Japanese beetles past years in my garden, but nothing to this magnitude. I had no idea they'd be that much more attracted to grape vines than anything else I've ever grown at this location.


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## gsf77 (Jul 27, 2019)

I mentioned this in another thread, they ate a good bit of the fruit when it had just started forming. If there's enough of them they'll clean something up almost overnight. A lot of the first year's growth is underground but a plant does need to draw energy from the sun through the leaves.


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## Masbustelo (Jul 27, 2019)

It is too late to replant this year. Spray with Sevin now and get rid of them. Then see what happens this year with them.


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## sremick (Jul 27, 2019)

gsf77 said:


> A lot of the first year's growth is underground but a plant does need to draw energy from the sun through the leaves.


If the vine is still alive will it produce new leaves at this point in the season and try to recover?


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## Xnke (Jul 27, 2019)

Yes, it will be fine if you get the beetles off.


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## sremick (Jul 27, 2019)

Xnke said:


> Yes, it will be fine if you get the beetles off.


That's reassuring. I'll get some photos soon to also help confirm that all is not lost.

Would it be prudent at this point to remove the grow tubes and the protection they provide, in trade for better access to the beetles?


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## gsf77 (Jul 27, 2019)

I'm not exactly what a growth tube is but if you can at the least be sure to spray the inside of the growth tubes in case they're hiding in there. If the beetles are around they will be looking for some new growth. If the beetles are gone there will be about a million other sucking insects looking for some new growth.


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## sremick (Jul 27, 2019)

gsf77 said:


> I'm not exactly what a growth tube is.


https://growtube.com/grapevine-shelters/


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 28, 2019)

I find that the Garden Tech liquid Sevin (zeta-cypermethrin) very effective on these little rascals. I switched last year as it seemed the carbaryl based products wasn't bothering them that much.


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## Vinobeau (Jul 28, 2019)

If you had the time to go out three times a day and flick them into a coffee can filled with water & a couple of tbs of liquid soap, you will do wonders; especially if you get two that are mating in one flick! The other is to spray the ground this year and next year with grub control. That way they don't even reach beetle stage. Check with a local lawn company like Nature Scape for the proper spraying time for your area.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 28, 2019)

This is after half a day. I set this far away, usually down wind, so as the draw them away from the vineyard and orchard. When they happen here, they come by the truck load. Except this year, the horde never showed, just a few scouting bands. And I have a 3 pronged approach. Spray, trap, and milky spore.


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## sremick (Jul 28, 2019)

Dennis Griffith said:


> I find that the Garden Tech liquid Sevin (zeta-cypermethrin) very effective on these little rascals. I switched last year as it seemed the carbaryl based products wasn't bothering them that much.


I need to use organic methods. I find neem works when it hits them directly, unclear about lingering effects. I'll be also trying spinosad and pythrethrins, both of which I just picked up in concentrate form for use with my sprayer.



Vinobeau said:


> If you had the time to go out three times a day and flick them into a coffee can filled with water & a couple of tbs of liquid soap, you will do wonders;


Except I can't do that every day.  Sometimes I need to be able to be away for a couple days. Summertime is also vacation time.



Dennis Griffith said:


> This is after half a day. I set this far away, usually down wind, so as the draw them away from the vineyard and orchard. When they happen here, they come by the truck load. Except this year, the horde never showed, just a few scouting bands. And I have a 3 pronged approach. Spray, trap, and milky spore.


I read so much mix thoughts on those traps. It seems more places than not say that they cause a bigger problem than they solve, due to the attractant. And "downwind" isn't consistent (average winds are about 30/30/30/10 in the 4 directions), so no matter where I put one it will be luring them right across my vines for part of the day. It seems my only option would be to totally surround them with traps in all directions.

Milky spore is also a tough one. Problem #1: you're only treating your own lawn. Most of the beetles come from off your own property. Problem #2: a 20-lb bag treats 7000 sq ft and costs $40. So to treat 3 acres, I'd need 19 bags, for a total of $760. And you need to do it multiple years in a row. Yikes.

And I thought the vines and trellis supplies were expensive... fighting Japanese beetles is shaping up to cost more than everything I've spent so far combined.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 28, 2019)

One thought about the traps, once they are in, no more breeding. I have 30 acres, so I can set them out a ways. As for milky spore, I do some every year somewhere. You can just do patches and eventually you'll get a good culture going everywhere. And it takes a while to work. Grubs also help spread it as they eat it and poop it out. It will creep beyond the area you treat. So I just keep spreading some around every year without breaking the bank.


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## Stressbaby (Jul 28, 2019)

Last year: https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/japanese-beetle-control.65876/#post-694412

This year:


Last year was year #2. If you have any grapes on the vines, prune them off.

I have lots of experience with neem oil in my greenhouse. It doesn't have a direct killing effect. It has a number of modes of action, but primarily it acts as a growth regulator. You will not see an immediate effect, but rather it takes 1-2 weeks. Like Dennis, I use the new Sevin for JBs, works like a charm.


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## KevinL (Jul 28, 2019)

I handled my JBs by hand the first year, spending 30 minutes a day flicking beetles into a bucket. Then I realized that organic wasn't ever going to happen in my climate (It was more of me being a cheapskate than anything) and went and bought Sevin. Boy was I thrilled with the result and I'm never going back. It is very effective on the beetles, and a spray will provide excellent protection for 10-14 days.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 29, 2019)

I tried the organic route and struggled with fungus and JBs when I had like 20 vines. I live in the Ohio Valley region and have heavy disease and JB pressure. I started with a small amount too figure out what was needed to keep the vines healthy and produce grapes successfully. So now, I test for proper nutrient balance and have a spray program for my 100+ vines. The largest issue I face now is crown gall, which I think I have at bay. It's just a pain to have to deal with it. Everything likes grapes, I just like them more!


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## BigH (Jul 29, 2019)

sremick said:


> I'm wondering: if a new vine is hit that hard with all its leaves destroyed so young, can it bounce back or is it a lost cause? Should I be scrambling to try and replace these vines ASAP this season?



The JB population exploded here this week. We have had them for about 3 or 4 weeks now, but they went nuts this week. 

IMO, the vines that you have are going to have a better shot at survival than anything you plant this late in the season. We have enough season left for your vines to grow some green and get ready for fall if you get the JB problem under control. 

H


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## sremick (Jul 29, 2019)

Good news: even the smallest and worst-decimated vines are already showing signs of trying to come back. I see little buds/nubs forming and some have even tried to push out new leaves. My faith in the stubborn vigor of grapevines is restored.

Hopefully there's still time for them to produce suitable root growth in this (their first) season before winter.

Needless to say I'm significantly upping my anti-beetle regimen in a more frequent and multi-faceted way.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 29, 2019)

There is one other way to control pests if you need to stay organic. Surround WP is a clay based product that will work, but you'll need to invest in a sprayer with agitation in the tank. It basically coats everything with what looks like chalk dust (after it dries). Bugs don't like it and it is supposed to keep the diseases at bay.


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## sremick (Jul 29, 2019)

Dennis Griffith said:


> There is one other way to control pests if you need to stay organic. Surround WP is a clay based product that will work, but you'll need to invest in a sprayer with agitation in the tank.


I actually already have a bag on the way. From what I read, as long as I kept shaking my sprayer tank I should be ok...? Mine is small (1 gallon).


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## wxtrendsguy (Jul 29, 2019)

Japanese Beetles can be easily controlled by Sevin XLR Plus...2 quarts/acre is the dosage for good control per the label. If you are going to maintain a vineyard of 3 acres you should be buying most of your chemicals from an agricultural supply company not Home Desperate. Sevin will run you about $50 a gallon. The good news is you only need to usually treat 2 or maybe 3 times for the year. So at most you are looking at a couple hundred dollars. 

The vines will bounce back and likely sprout new leaves but you are losing time waiting for the new leaves which in turn means the vine is not growing or producing carbohydrates...this in turn can weaken the vine as you go into winter which is never a good thing. If you are in the East your new leaves this time of year are particularly susceptible to Downy mildew infection unless you are still using Manzate in a non producing vineyard only or growing disease resistant hybrids. Do not fertilize its too late in the year for that.

Final note if you are located in the east and growing anything other than highly disease resistant hybrids please forget about trying to be organic...you are just going to end up with dead vines, disappointment and a lot less money.


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## sremick (Jul 29, 2019)

My property is 3 acres but I'm not growing 3 acres of vines. 2 rows, 42 vines. Resistant hybrids also grown in this area (Marquette and Petite Pearl).

If I lose some after this winter, I'm just going to have to accept that and replant. At least the majority of my vines will survive. Some are close to the top wire. At most I'm only worried about 7 vines or so.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 29, 2019)

Give it a try. If nothing else you'll get your cardio in for the day....


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 29, 2019)

wxtrendsguy said:


> Japanese Beetles can be easily controlled by Sevin XLR Plus...2 quarts/acre is the dosage for good control per the label. If you are going to maintain a vineyard of 3 acres you should be buying most of your chemicals from an agricultural supply company not Home Desperate. Sevin will run you about $50 a gallon. The good news is you only need to usually treat 2 or maybe 3 times for the year. So at most you are looking at a couple hundred dollars.
> 
> The vines will bounce back and likely sprout new leaves but you are losing time waiting for the new leaves which in turn means the vine is not growing or producing carbohydrates...this in turn can weaken the vine as you go into winter which is never a good thing. If you are in the East your new leaves this time of year are particularly susceptible to Downy mildew infection unless you are still using Manzate in a non producing vineyard only or growing disease resistant hybrids. Do not fertilize its too late in the year for that.
> 
> Final note if you are located in the east and growing anything other than highly disease resistant hybrids please forget about trying to be organic...you are just going to end up with dead vines, disappointment and a lot less money.



I've switched from using the Carbaryl based products as they seem to have lost their effectiveness on JBs here. Last year, 4 days after a spray and they were munching away. I tried the new version of Sevin that is Zeta-Cypermethrin based and it was deadly to the little buggers. You can get the Garden Tech Sevin (not Carbaryl) for about $60 a gallon on line. I still use a product that has Carbaryl in the spring, just not during JB season.


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## sremick (Jul 29, 2019)

Dennis Griffith said:


> I tried the new version of Sevin that is Zeta-Cypermethrin based and it was deadly to the little buggers.


Apparently zeta-cypermethrin is also highly-toxic to bees, cats (I'm a cat owner), beneficial insects, fish, and has a long list of negative human reactions. Not the sort of thing I want to put on anything I'm going to consume, let alone let into the house.

If I can't produce grapes without them being poison transport vehicles, then I have no interest in making wine.


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## Masbustelo (Jul 30, 2019)

I don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread, but neem oil and spinosad are worth looking at as alternatives.


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## Stressbaby (Jul 30, 2019)

Dennis Griffith said:


> I tried the organic route and struggled with fungus and JBs when I had like 20 vines. I live in the Ohio Valley region and have heavy disease and JB pressure. I started with a small amount too figure out what was needed to keep the vines healthy and produce grapes successfully. So now, I test for proper nutrient balance and have a spray program for my 100+ vines. The largest issue I face now is crown gall, which I think I have at bay. It's just a pain to have to deal with it. Everything likes grapes, I just like them more!



Not to threadjack, but at some point I'm going to need to pick your brain on crown gall. I have this on about 1/2 of my Nortons, going to need some advice on handling this, short term and long term.


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## bshef (Jul 30, 2019)

Keep us posted on how Surround works on the beetles.


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## sremick (Jul 30, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> I don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread, but neem oil and spinosad are worth looking at as alternatives.


Yep, I was using neem early on, but not frequently enough. Ended up picking up a bottle of concentrate and a sprayer. I now mix a cocktail in which spinosad and pythrethrins are components along with neem.

There were no beetles on the vines this morning... not sure if it's because of my new regimen or that we're approaching the end of their season.


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## BigH (Jul 30, 2019)

sremick said:


> I now mix a cocktail in which spinosad and pythrethrins are components along with neem.



Those pythrethrins, which are quite similar in molecular structure to synthetic zeta-cypermethrin, are also highly toxic to cats. You are essentially using nature's Sevin, and should take nearly identical precautions with respect to bee activity, cats, fish and PPE.

H


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## Kantuckid (Jul 30, 2019)

In our main garden my wife has a zinnia flower cutting area with several rows ~ 25' long in all colors-they seem to mostly eat the petals on the white ones. Her rose garden at the house they like red,pink,yellow roses and sevin dust is what works best there but ugly.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 30, 2019)

Stressbaby said:


> Not to threadjack, but at some point I'm going to need to pick your brain on crown gall. I have this on about 1/2 of my Nortons, going to need some advice on handling this, short term and long term.



Currently I use a razor knife to remove any galls, then I seal with pruning sealer. It seems to be working in the short term, but I would like to acquire Gallex, an antibacterial paint designed to cure crown gall. Something else to consider is improving sanitation, clean hands and clean tools. I keep diluted bleach water handy in a plastic gallon jug so that I can rinse off my hands and tools. The bacteria that causes crown gall will spread to your other vines if it gets into an open wound. So pruning and pinching off buds is a prime way to spread it, if your hands or tools are contaminated. So, if you grub out a weed and then rub off a bud with that same hand, then you may be spreading it. Another technique to consider is allowing other shoots to start on infected vines and once established, cut out the old vine thus saving your established root system. I throw all stuff known to be infected into the trash, or you can burn them. Either way, don't keep them on the property. We can start another thread if you like, or you can email me direct. [email protected]..


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