# Add KMeta on Third Racking?



## vinividivici (Nov 13, 2012)

I've got a couple of carboys of Carmenere and Malbec. On the second racking from the secondary to carboy on the Carmenere, I added 1/4 tsp of KMeta per rec of one of the posters here.

I'm getting ready to rack once more for another six months, so should I add more KMeta or was the previous 1/4 tsp enough?

Thanks,
Bob


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## robie (Nov 13, 2012)

The previously added 1/4 tsp will get you through the next six months, but the SO2 level at the end is very likely to be very, very low. What you really need is a SO2 tester setup, so you will know for sure.

You didn't say when you added that 1/4 tsp of Kmeta.

If you can't test free SO2, if you recently added that Kmeta, I would wait for 3 months and add 1/8 tsp, not 1/4. By the end of the 6 months, you will be ready for another 1/8 tsp.


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## shoelesst (Nov 13, 2012)

robie said:


> The previously added 1/4 tsp will get you through the next six months, but the SO2 level at the end is very likely to be very, very low. What you really need is a SO2 tester setup, so you will know for sure.
> 
> You didn't say when you added that 1/4 tsp of Kmeta.
> 
> If you can't test free SO2, if you recently added that Kmeta, I would wait for 3 months and add 1/8 tsp, not 1/4. By the end of the 6 months, you will be ready for another 1/8 tsp.



I don't agree that the SO2 will necessarily last six months, especially since he is racking. Racking can introduce a lot of oxygen depending on how it's done and this can deplete SO2 quickly. 
Testing is always the best answer, but I think it' also safe to say that after introducing oxygen through an activity like racking, it is safest to sulfite.


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## vinividivici (Nov 13, 2012)

So Shoe,

Would you add 1/8th tsp of KMeta before racking this last time? Again, it will be in the Carboy for another six months.

Thanks,
Bob


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## winemaker_3352 (Nov 13, 2012)

shoelesst said:


> I don't agree that the SO2 will necessarily last six months, especially since he is racking. Racking can introduce a lot of oxygen depending on how it's done and this can deplete SO2 quickly.
> Testing is always the best answer, but I think it' also safe to say that after introducing oxygen through an activity like racking, it is safest to sulfite.



If you are vacuum racking - there won't be much SO2 escaping out - as there is not a lot of O2 introduced..


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## shoelesst (Nov 14, 2012)

winemaker_3352 said:


> If you are vacuum racking - there won't be much SO2 escaping out - as there is not a lot of O2 introduced..



Agreed , depending on how the racking is done the amount of oxygen introduced will be different. If racking by siphon and not by vacuum, then I would add 1/8 or 1/4 tsp of sulphite.


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## altavino (Nov 14, 2012)

what is your ph?

above 3.7 I would add 1/4 tsp
3.6 or lower 1/8 tsp.


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## vinividivici (Nov 14, 2012)

altavino said:


> what is your ph?
> 
> above 3.7 I would add 1/4 tsp
> 3.6 or lower 1/8 tsp.



Don't know yet. I've got a new pH test kit and will use it for the first time with this racking. Thanks for the info.

Bob


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## altavino (Nov 15, 2012)

is it strips or a meter? the strips are pretty useless for red wine.

if you haven't got acurate PH numbers , I would assume if your brix was above 24.5 you PH is also above 3.7 and add the 1/4 tsp.

if aging in a small barrel , which will eat up free so2 faster than a carboy , I'd go with 1/4 tsp 

if you have an accurate means of measureing ph , then match PPM of so2 with PH.
and ignore the 1/4 and 1/8 tsp reccomendations.

here is an so2 addition calculator 
http://www.vinoenology.com/calculators/SO2-addition/

then you can manage so2 like a pro, ph meter in hand.
Ph meters start around $60 bucks .


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## vinividivici (Nov 15, 2012)

altavino said:


> is it strips or a meter? the strips are pretty useless for red wine.
> 
> if you haven't got acurate PH numbers , I would assume if your brix was above 24.5 you PH is also above 3.7 and add the 1/4 tsp.
> 
> ...



I've got a meter/reagents for pH measurement. And thanks for that link, very helpful! 

Bob


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## vinividivici (Nov 26, 2012)

altavino said:


> is it strips or a meter? the strips are pretty useless for red wine.
> 
> if you haven't got acurate PH numbers , I would assume if your brix was above 24.5 you PH is also above 3.7 and add the 1/4 tsp.
> 
> ...



I calibrated the digital meter, and the test reading is 3.09 at 62 degrees F.

I looked at the calculations on the vinoenology site, but not sure what to do next. I plugged values into the "SO2 Addition as Potassium metabisulfite (K2S2O5)" (5 gallons of must, .5ppm target addition) and wound up with .02 gms to add.

Is this an insignificant addition, meaning don't add anything as the juice is near the proper pH and SO2 levels?

Bob


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## altavino (Nov 26, 2012)

do you mean 50ppm ?


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## vinividivici (Nov 26, 2012)

altavino said:


> do you mean 50ppm ?



No, the chart references on the site show a target of 0.5ppm mg/l. That's what I was quoting. Obviously, my problem is attempting to equate my pH with the required level of SO2 in the juice.


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## shoelesst (Nov 26, 2012)

vinividivici said:


> No, the chart references on the site show a target of 0.5ppm mg/l. That's what I was quoting. Obviously, my problem is attempting to equate my pH with the required level of SO2 in the juice.



That is Avery low pH. I would even say it is outside the normal range of 3.2-3.6. The lower the pH the less SO2 required. Since you are so low, that is the reason you are a very low input requirement of sulfite. 

I have never dealt with a pH that low, so someone else may be able to assist you in dealing with it.

Wait a minute - I just read again, Altavinom is right, usually 50ppm is what is the goal. I'm wondering if there is a typo in there. Interesting. Not sure what to say.


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## vinividivici (Nov 27, 2012)

shoelesst said:


> That is Avery low pH. I would even say it is outside the normal range of 3.2-3.6. The lower the pH the less SO2 required. Since you are so low, that is the reason you are a very low input requirement of sulfite.
> 
> I have never dealt with a pH that low, so someone else may be able to assist you in dealing with it.
> 
> Wait a minute - I just read again, Altavinom is right, usually 50ppm is what is the goal. I'm wondering if there is a typo in there. Interesting. Not sure what to say.



Shoe, not sure what you're saying about the "very low pH"? My reading of 3.9 is HIGHER than the normal range of 3.2-3.6, meaning it's toward the base side, not the acidic side of the range. 

Re the .5ppm SO2 target, I''ve taken that right from the web site (link) Altovino provided. 

Hopefully he can clarify all this.


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## GreginND (Nov 27, 2012)

vinividivici said:


> Shoe, not sure what you're saying about the "very low pH"? My reading of 3.9 is HIGHER than the normal range of 3.2-3.6, meaning it's toward the base side, not the acidic side of the range.
> 
> Re the .5ppm SO2 target, I''ve taken that right from the web site (link) Altovino provided.
> 
> Hopefully he can clarify all this.



In your previous post you said the pH was 3.09 which is very low. If it actually is 3.9 I would consider an acid addition. 

I can see how the website would be confusing. You need 0.5 ppm molecular SO2. That is not the same as the free SO2 which is a combination of molecular SO2 and bisulfite. The equilibrium of the two is related to the pH. At higher pH more of the SO2 is in the bisulfite form and less in the molecular SO2 form. Thus you need more free SO2 to achieve the protective level of molecular SO2. 

For example, to achieve a molecular SO2 level of 0.8 mg/L in a wine at pH 3.5 you need 40 ppm of free SO2. In a wine of pH 3.9 you need free SO2 if about 100 ppm to get the same 0.8 molecular SO2.

I hope I haven't confused you more.

This PDF provides some more information: http://www.accuvin.com/pHSO2Links.pdf


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## GreginND (Nov 27, 2012)

Let me add that I think when you calculated that you need 0.02 g of k meta to get 0.5 ppm so2 I think you were confusing molecular o2 with free so2. At your pH you need something more in the range of 50-75 ppm free so2. 

Unless you have a way to test the actual free SO2 I would not complicate the situation. If I were you, given he high pH, I would add 1/4 tsp kmeta at each racking and call it good. I don't think it would be adding too much. If your nose or taste buds tell you differently I would adjust that lower.


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## vinividivici (Nov 27, 2012)

Greg (and Shoe and Altovino),

You are right. The pH WAS 3.09. Too many damn numbers floating around in my 3-cell brain. 

Okay, so now the pH is very low. Do I need to add bicarbonate or something to bring it into the desirable range before worrying about the SO2 level?

BTW, the juice is Carmenere if that helps. 

I plugged in the correct pH of 3.09 into the calculator and it now shows a desired level of 10.03 mg/l SO2.

Thanks,
Bob


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## GreginND (Nov 27, 2012)

I don't think I would try to adjust the acid by chemical means. How does it taste? Did this wine undergo mlf? It may be difficult if you have already added sulfite. You could try to cold stabilize it to drop out some if the tartaric acid.


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## vinividivici (Nov 27, 2012)

GreginND said:


> I don't think I would try to adjust the acid by chemical means. How does it taste? Did this wine undergo mlf? It may be difficult if you have already added sulfite. You could try to cold stabilize it to drop out some if the tartaric acid.



It has a slight bite to it but I attributed that to it being six months old.

Re MLF, I didn't know that it needed that. That's another gray area for me.

Re kmeta addition, I was following the advice of a board member to add 1/4 tsp at final racking before bulk aging in the carboy, which is what I did. I'm now ready to rack once more, ergo the initial question of how much kmeta to add.

The carboy is in my wine cellar at ~ 58 degrees. Does that meet cold stabilization temp?

Thanks,
Bob


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## GreginND (Nov 27, 2012)

It's probably too late for mlf but for your information, mlf converts malic acid to lactic acid. This lowers the acid level some and makes for a softer more rounded wine. Most red wines are put through malolactic fermentation. The ml bacteria don't tolerate low pH and sulfite well. I wouldn't worry about it for this batch. 

Cold stabilization is chilling the wine down to about 25 degrees for a few weeks. This will allow potassium bitartrate crystals to precipitate out of the wine if there is excess tartaric acid. The wine is then racked off the tartrates while cold. This helps reduce the acid a little. If you are not able to chill it that low I wouldn't worry about it. 

I guess I would add a small dose of kmeta at this racking just to be sure. 1/8 tsp should be fine.


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## vinividivici (Nov 27, 2012)

Thanks, Greg. I guess MLF is another step up in the winemaking process for me. I buy six gallon juice buckets locally. It seems the prevailing instructions for making wine from these is to simply ferment, rack a couple of times, and bottle.

As I'll need to top off the juice on this next racking, I wonder if this might be helpful and solve both issues (topping and low pH):

"[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]*Blending:* Blending high acid wines with low acid wines is a method of balancing acid that many winemakers prefer. It is safe, uses no chemicals and yields immediate results."

Opinion on this? 

Bob
[/FONT]


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## GreginND (Nov 27, 2012)

Blending is a great way to balance wines. But I don't know that the little bit of wine you will be topping up with will make a big difference. Depends on how much you need to add. That being said if your wine is on the tart side topping up with another wine with lower acid won't hurt one bit.

Just curious - have you checked the acid on your carmenere? I wonder if that would be good for blending?

By the way, I think your wine is going to turn out pretty good as it is. I know it's hard to resist over thinking everything. But it is just wine. Folks have been making the stuff for thousands of years. I think it is still best to trust your taste buds and not over analyze it.

IMHO - chemical acid adjustments are best done prior to fermentation.

At risk of giving you one more thing to worry about, have you thought about throwing some oak cubes into your carboy? That might be just the thing to take your wine up one more notch.


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## shoelesst (Nov 27, 2012)

vinividivici said:


> Shoe, not sure what you're saying about the "very low pH"? My reading of 3.9 is HIGHER than the normal range of 3.2-3.6, meaning it's toward the base side, not the acidic side of the range.
> 
> Re the .5ppm SO2 target, I''ve taken that right from the web site (link) Altovino provided.
> 
> Hopefully he can clarify all this.



You wrote 3.09 originally, not 3.9.
I would confirm the target SO2 with other sources. I doesn't seem right. 50 ppm seems like it should be right and would make sense all around.


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## vinividivici (Nov 27, 2012)

shoelesst said:


> You wrote 3.09 originally, not 3.9.
> I would confirm the target SO2 with other sources. I doesn't seem right. 50 ppm seems like it should be right and would make sense all around.



Yes, I corrected that in a following post.

Thanks,
Bob


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