# Just started 30lbs blueberry wine. Calculation question to start...



## v8rx7guy (Dec 1, 2016)

Tonight I started a batch of blueberry wine that I am very excited about... first time making fruit wine! I am started with 30lbs of bueberries and I have a question about how much water to add. I have heard numbers all over the place from 3 lbs per gallon all the way up to not adding water at all. I think from everything I have read, Id like to go with 4lbs per gallon. 

MY question is, does this mean I should add one gallon of water for every 4lbs of blueberries... in other words adding 7.5 gallons of water. Or, does that mean that I should add whatever amount of water that makes my total must volume 7.5 gallons? Does this question make sense?

Thanks in advance... pictures to come!


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## Stressbaby (Dec 2, 2016)

If your experience is similar to mine, when you press off these blueberries, you will get around 2.25 gallons of juice. That is to say, 10# of berries for 0.75 gal of juice. So if you add 5.25 gal water, your final volume will be around 7.5 gallons.

I would not add 7.5 gallons of water, the wine will be thin IMHO. I have 30# of blueberries as well (look down about 5 threads in this section, here) and if I do straight blueberry, I won't be adding nearly that much water.


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## montanaWineGuy (Dec 2, 2016)

I used 18 pounds of blueberries with 6 gallons of water. Came out great, and I did not press the berries, but crushed and squeezed them during the 6 days of fermentation.


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## bkisel (Dec 2, 2016)

If it were me I'd make a 6 gallon batch. I'd add the bagged berries to the bucket and then fill with water to a little past the 6 gallon mark. I'd add water so that when what remains of the berries are removed from the bucket you've got 6 gallons of wine to rack to secondary.


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## FTC Wines (Dec 2, 2016)

We use 5-6 lbs of blueberries per gal. Like Montana I don't press, just smash & ferment for 7-10 days. Makes an awesome wine, our fav! Roy


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 2, 2016)

Thanks for the input everyone. I am still confused though.... when you say 5-6 lbs of blueberrys per gallon, do you mean for every 5-6 lbs you add one gallon of water, or you add as much water that is needed to make one gallon of must from 5-6 lbs of berries? it is sounding lik the latter, but the advice is all over the place haha


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## Johnd (Dec 2, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Thanks for the input everyone. I am still confused though.... when you say 5-6 lbs of blueberrys per gallon, do you mean for every 5-6 lbs you add one gallon of water, or you add as much water that is needed to make one gallon of must from 5-6 lbs of berries? it is sounding lik the latter, but the advice is all over the place haha



If you want to end up with 6 gallons of wine, add water til you have about 10 gallons of must. Post fermentation and racking, etc., you should end up with 6-6.5 gallons. I did this exact thing with 40# of blueberries, so mine ended up 6.67 lbs/gallon, but I only added 3 gallons of water. I'm very pleased thus far. 

Rule of thumb is that 65% of your must volume becomes wine, so if you wanted a 5 gallon batch, you'd add water to make about 7.7 gallons of must (5 / .65). Its hard to say how much water to add, because the size of the berries plays a part. I would think you could do a very nice 5 or 6 gallon batch, were it me, I'd shoot for the 5.

If you do the 5, it'll end up 6lbs/ gallon, the 6 will end up 5lbs/gal, roughly.


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## montanaWineGuy (Dec 2, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Thanks for the input everyone. I am still confused though.... when you say 5-6 lbs of blueberrys per gallon, do you mean for every 5-6 lbs you add one gallon of water, or you add as much water that is needed to make one gallon of must from 5-6 lbs of berries? it is sounding lik the latter, but the advice is all over the place haha



I have a 7.5 gallon fermentation bucket. Berries go in, and I add boiling water enough to fill to the top. After fermentation, what is left after removing the berries is usually 6 gallons of liquid. If it is a little short then I go pound the berries to extract enough juice to fully fill the 6 gallon carboy, or I add some water.

--------

Put another way. 18lbs of berries to make 6 gallons of wine.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 3, 2016)

Johnd said:


> If you want to end up with 6 gallons of wine, add water til you have about 10 gallons of must. Post fermentation and racking, etc., you should end up with 6-6.5 gallons. I did this exact thing with 40# of blueberries, so mine ended up 6.67 lbs/gallon, but I only added 3 gallons of water. I'm very pleased thus far.
> 
> Rule of thumb is that 65% of your must volume becomes wine, so if you wanted a 5 gallon batch, you'd add water to make about 7.7 gallons of must (5 / .65). Its hard to say how much water to add, because the size of the berries plays a part. I would think you could do a very nice 5 or 6 gallon batch, were it me, I'd shoot for the 5.
> 
> If you do the 5, it'll end up 6lbs/ gallon, the 6 will end up 5lbs/gal, roughly.



So you're saying that the lbs/gal ratio is based on the finished wine volume? I was under the impression it was the pre fermentation must volume.

Either way, I got started last night. I am using a 10+ gal fermenter. I put in all 30lbs. I mixed 10lbs of sugar into 2 gallons and added it to the must. One additional gallon brought it right up to the 7.5gal mark. Took a specific gravity reading and it is 1.087 which should be a nice starting point.

So if I use the pre ferment volume, my ratio is 4 lb/gal. I am hoping for 6 gallons pressed, so if I use my final volume I should be right around 5 lb/gal. I am running to the wine store today to pick up my yeast and pectic enzyme. Any yeast recommendations? I have read that EC-1118, red star montrachet, 71B-1122 and pasteur red are all decent options....


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## montanaWineGuy (Dec 3, 2016)

I think you are using to many berries. The flavor is going to be stronger then needed. IMO, better to get more bottles of wine then to over flavor the product.


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## Stressbaby (Dec 3, 2016)

The 65% rule obviously varies depending on your starting ratio of fruit to water. What you are getting back really is 65% of the volume of the fruit. The higher the proportion of fruit to added water, the closer to 65% you will get.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 3, 2016)

montanaWineGuy said:


> I think you are using to many berries. The flavor is going to be stronger then needed. IMO, better to get more bottles of wine then to over flavor the product.



So what would be my choice then, add another couple of gallons of water?


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 3, 2016)

Here aresome pictures of the current state of deliciousness!


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## montanaWineGuy (Dec 3, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> So what would be my choice then, add another couple of gallons of water?



Me, with 30lbs of berries, I'd aim for 10 gallons of wine. You'll like the wine either way, but having the extra 20 bottles at the end is preferable, when the wine taste is full.


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## montanaWineGuy (Dec 3, 2016)

Here is my Blueberry Wine with 18lbs of berries for 6 gallons of wine. The color depth should give you some idea of the blueberry taste.


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## Stressbaby (Dec 3, 2016)

It all depends on what style you are after. My first batch at 3.5#/gallon was too light on blueberry. This year I'm at 5#/gal, and as you can see in the other thread, Johnd is at 6.67#/gal.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 3, 2016)

Added acid blend, pectic enzyme, grape tannin and yeast energizer. I added one more gallon of water for a total of 8.5 gallons of must @ 1.090 s.g.

Decided to go with redstar pasteur red for my yeast. Used goFerm to start it and just inoculated the must!


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## Johnd (Dec 3, 2016)

You can check out the thread from my blueberry: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54269

Note that @runningwolf makes his with berries only, no added water at all. I believe he actually sells his. Mine is still bulk aging, hasn't had any adjustments made to it (pH /TA), and hasn't been backsweetened yet, so I really can't tell you how it is......


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## Stressbaby (Dec 3, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Added acid blend, pectic enzyme, grape tannin and yeast energizer. I added one more gallon of water for a total of 8.5 gallons of must @ 1.090 s.g.
> 
> Decided to go with redstar pasteur red for my yeast. Used goFerm to start it and just inoculated the must!



I think you are good. 4 gallons of water, and est ~2.25 gallons of juice from the pressed berries, for final yield is 6.25 gallons of wine, around 5#/gallon. It will be interesting to see where you end up.

Did you get a TA or pH by any chance? Just curious.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 3, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> I think you are good. 4 gallons of water, and est ~2.25 gallons of juice from the pressed berries, for final yield is 6.25 gallons of wine, around 5#/gallon. It will be interesting to see where you end up.
> 
> Did you get a TA or pH by any chance? Just curious.



No. I did not check the TA or pH... I could though. I just was going straight off an online recipe for how much acid blend to add


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## Stressbaby (Dec 4, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> No. I did not check the TA or pH... I could though. I just was going straight off an online recipe for how much acid blend to add



I would.

I don't want to alarm you, your berries could be different. But I've got two batches of blueberry going, one a traditional recipe at 6.5#/gallon (looked at my notes and realized I misspoke earlier), and another rosé style, 6#/gallon, both 3 gallon batches. The former started at 2.91, and I adjusted UP to 3.27. The latter started at 2.64, and I adjusted UP to 3.29. Both wines have a bit of grape base as well, so that is different than your batch; however, I don't think the grape base drove the pH down, I think it was the blueberries.


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## Johnd (Dec 4, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> I would.
> 
> I don't want to alarm you, your berries could be different. But I've got two batches of blueberry going, one a traditional recipe at 6.5#/gallon (looked at my notes and realized I misspoke earlier), and another rosé style, 6#/gallon, both 3 gallon batches. The former started at 2.91, and I adjusted UP to 3.27. The latter started at 2.64, and I adjusted UP to 3.29. Both wines have a bit of grape base as well, so that is different than your batch; however, I don't think the grape base drove the pH down, I think it was the blueberries.



I second that emotion. My batch was at 2.95, which was adjusted up to 3.31 prior to fermentation, bit safer for the yeast. It's a good idea to get your acids adjusted before AF. It's just the way blueberries are, on the acidic side.


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## Scooter68 (Dec 4, 2016)

Made a very good wine from 4 1/2 lbs of blueberries for a gallon and I've got a 1 gallon batch with 8 lbs currently aging. _I would probably go for using enough water to get to 5 gallons of finished wine._ Allow for loss of volume with some sediment so just enough liquid to get to no more than 6 gallons max when you pitch the yeast. Don't forget to allow for the water needed to dissolve your sugar (If that's what you use) 
One word of advice - watch the acidity. My latest batch with 8 lbs was at a pH of 3.02 the last time I checked it 6 weeks ago, will check again this week. I agree with Stressbaby's comment above - blueberries are pretty acidic. 

*Also I would NOT remove the berry pulp from my must until at least the end of the primary fermentation. (In other words I would NOT press out the blueberry juice) Put the blue berries in however many fine mesh bags you need to hold them all.* Let all the flavor and characteristics of the blueberries be released before you pull out the berries. My 3 batches so far have had very little residue left the berries and skins will pretty much break down - so why lose any of that - Even if that adds to the acidity of the must. The acidity you can deal with but DON'T give up that flavor.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 4, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> I would.
> 
> I don't want to alarm you, your berries could be different. But I've got two batches of blueberry going, one a traditional recipe at 6.5#/gallon (looked at my notes and realized I misspoke earlier), and another rosé style, 6#/gallon, both 3 gallon batches. The former started at 2.91, and I adjusted UP to 3.27. The latter started at 2.64, and I adjusted UP to 3.29. Both wines have a bit of grape base as well, so that is different than your batch; however, I don't think the grape base drove the pH down, I think it was the blueberries.



Ok, I went ahead and checked it tonight. It was already fermenting, so not sure if that makes a difference? I got a pH of 2.92 and a TA measurement of about 5 g/L (0.5%). How did you raise your pH?


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## Johnd (Dec 4, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Ok, I went ahead and checked it tonight. It was already fermenting, so not sure if that makes a difference? I got a pH of 2.92 and a TA measurement of about 5 g/L (0.5%). How did you raise your pH?



For small adjustments, potassium bicarbonate. Go slow, little bits at a time, not all at once.....


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 4, 2016)

Even after fermentatin has started? Or is it too late? WHat about adding more water at pH 7.0?


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## Johnd (Dec 4, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Even after fermentatin has started? Or is it too late? WHat about adding more water at pH 7.0?



I try to do it before, but in your timing situation, were it me, I'd get it done asap. If you add more water, you'll just dilute your wine further.


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## Brub58 (Dec 4, 2016)

If your TA is only 5g/l I'd think twice before reducing it. That's not very high.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 5, 2016)

Brub58 said:


> If your TA is only 5g/l I'd think twice before reducing it. That's not very high.



I performed my measurement with a titration kit, so its +/- 1 g/L or so. If anything it probably was probably under 5 g/L.


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## Scooter68 (Dec 5, 2016)

My 1 gallon batch with 8lbs of blueberries started out with a pH around 2.9X it has mellowed somewhat. Again as others have said take it slow. Adjusting the acidity doesn't have to be done immediately as long as fermentation is running well. 

I didn't see where you mentioned how much wine must you now have fermenting. 

Hang in there. Unless fermentation is adversely affected by the acidity just let it roll and you can start adjusting that once fermentation has completed.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 5, 2016)

Scooter68 said:


> My 1 gallon batch with 8lbs of blueberries started out with a pH around 2.9X it has mellowed somewhat. Again as others have said take it slow. Adjusting the acidity doesn't have to be done immediately as long as fermentation is running well.
> 
> I didn't see where you mentioned how much wine must you now have fermenting.
> 
> Hang in there. Unless fermentation is adversely affected by the acidity just let it roll and you can start adjusting that once fermentation has completed.



Yes, the wine is fermenting heavily at this point... nice sized cap that I am punching down 3 or 4 times a day. Took a refractometer reading (which I know will be thrown off by the alcohol%) just to make sure it was dropping. It was 1.075 so I guess I am making some booze!


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 6, 2016)

Checked the specific gravity today. It is down to 1.050. Added some yeast nutrient as I am past 1/3 sugar depletion.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 11, 2016)

Bumped up the temp a bit as the fermentation seemed to be slowing. Down to 1.035 on the hydrometer... it has been 7 days since inoculation. The wine smells good. No hint of sulfur or anything weird. So thats better than batch of wine from grapes that I did this fall!


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## Johnd (Dec 11, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Bumped up the temp a bit as the fermentation seemed to be slowing. Down to 1.035 on the hydrometer... it has been 7 days since inoculation. The wine smells good. No hint of sulfur or anything weird. So thats better than batch of wine from grapes that I did this fall!



I'm assuming this is the same wine from the other thread, but you haven't mentioned adjusting your pH, did you make the adjustment?

I know you got a comment in this thread about not adjusting it because your TA was low, but you can fix that later if need be, and it's very easy to adjust. If the low pH causes your fermentation to stall out, then it doesn't really matter what the TA is, does it? It's a lot harder to restart a stuck fermentation than adjust your TA upward, if it even needs it later.


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## Stressbaby (Dec 11, 2016)

Two "meta" points to make here.
First, @v8rx7guy, it is helpful if you keep to one thread per batch, at least from conception through AF. Believe it or not, some of us live vicariously through other posters with these ferments and we like to keep the wines straight. 
Second, too few of these wines get follow up posts. So I'll just make my plea here and now for follow up posts at bottling and occasionally after drinking a bottle.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 11, 2016)

Johnd said:


> I'm assuming this is the same wine from the other thread, but you haven't mentioned adjusting your pH, did you make the adjustment?
> 
> I know you got a comment in this thread about not adjusting it because your TA was low, but you can fix that later if need be, and it's very easy to adjust. If the low pH causes your fermentation to stall out, then it doesn't really matter what the TA is, does it? It's a lot harder to restart a stuck fermentation than adjust your TA upward, if it even needs it later.



Yes... same batch. Thought I would start a new thread with my concern... I am still learning how things go around here! I did not get a chance to run to the wine store since your recommendation, potassium bicarbonate is not something I have on hand. It also makes me nervous to use something that I dont have experience with. Any advice on dosing? I have 8.5gallons of must. I am go to see if I have had any noticeable movement over night with the bump up of 5 degrees.



Stressbaby said:


> Two "meta" points to make here.
> First, @v8rx7guy, it is helpful if you keep to one thread per batch, at least from conception through AF. Believe it or not, some of us live vicariously through other posters with these ferments and we like to keep the wines straight.
> Second, too few of these wines get follow up posts. So I'll just make my plea here and now for follow up posts at bottling and occasionally after drinking a bottle.



One thread.. got it! My appologies. The only other batch thread that I have on my 2016 Regent I stuck with it all the way thru... I promise to do the same here!


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## Johnd (Dec 11, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Yes... same batch. I did not get a chance to run to the wine store since your recommendation, potassium bicarbonate is not something I have on hand. It also makes me nervous to use something that I dont have experience with. Any advice on dosing? I have 8.5gallons of must. I am go to see if I have had any noticeable movement over night with the bump up of 5 degrees.



Typical dosing recommendation is 1 gram per liter to raise the pH by .10 units. So if you wanted to go from 3.0 to 3.2, you would use 2 g/l. My advice is never use exactly what you calculate, use half, then mix really well and give it an hour or two to take hold. If you want to adjust further, follow the same process, calculate, add half, mix, wait, measure. Common error, don't calculate based upon your must volume, calculate based upon your final (expected) wine volume. My calcs are based upon final volume being roughly 65% of the must volume, YMMV.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 11, 2016)

Johnd said:


> Typical dosing recommendation is 1 gram per liter to raise the pH by .10 units. So if you wanted to go from 3.0 to 3.2, you would use 2 g/l. My advice is never use exactly what you calculate, use half, then mix really well and give it an hour or two to take hold. If you want to adjust further, follow the same process, calculate, add half, mix, wait, measure. Common error, don't calculate based upon your must volume, calculate based upon your final (expected) wine volume. My calcs are based upon final volume being roughly 65% of the must volume, YMMV.



OK. So I am shooting for a 6 gallon batch from my 8.5 gallons of must. 6 gallons is about 23L. I want to bump it from 2.9pH to 3.2pH... so 3 g/L x 23L which is 69 grams. I'll use your advice and start with maybe 40 grams or so and check. Sound good?

Oh yes... one more thing. My wine store has 'potassium carbonate' not 'potassium bicarbonate'. SAme stuff? Maybe a mis-label?


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## Johnd (Dec 11, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> OK. So I am shooting for a 6 gallon batch from my 8.5 gallons of must. 6 gallons is about 23L. I want to bump it from 2.9pH to 3.2pH... so 3 g/L x 23L which is 69 grams. I'll use your advice and start with maybe 40 grams or so and check. Sound good?
> 
> Oh yes... one more thing. My wine store has 'potassium carbonate' not 'potassium bicarbonate'. SAme stuff? Maybe a mis-label?



23 x 1.5 is 34.5, start with 30, you can always add more, but can't remove it. For me, it always seems to do more than it's supposed to. 

I've seen the stuff sold as carbonate and bicarbonate, should be the same, just check with a knowledgeable employee at your LHBS and make sure that it's for raising pH.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 11, 2016)

Johnd said:


> 23 x 1.5 is 34.5, start with 30, you can always add more, but can't remove it. For me, it always seems to do more than it's supposed to.
> 
> I've seen the stuff sold as carbonate and bicarbonate, should be the same, just check with a knowledgeable employee at your LHBS and make sure that it's for raising pH.



Ok. Just added 30g of potassium carbonate. The guy at the homebrew supply shop confirmed this was the stuff. I will take a pH reading tonight.

Thank you all so much for being so helpful!


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## Johnd (Dec 11, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Ok. Just added 30g of potassium carbonate. The guy at the homebrew supply shop confirmed this was the stuff. I will take a pH reading tonight.
> 
> Thank you all so much for being so helpful!



No worries, let us know how it reads after your wait......


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 11, 2016)

Took some readings tonight and I am very surprised.

S.G.: 1.030
pH: 3.62
T.A.: 4-5 g/L

I was expecting a movement in pH of 0.200 and I got a movement of 0.700. Should I be shocked? What am I missing here?

I think I am decently happy, though now I am wondering if the pH value is too high? I normally see people shooting for 3.300 or so.


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## Johnd (Dec 12, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Took some readings tonight and I am very surprised.
> 
> S.G.: 1.030
> pH: 3.62
> ...



That seems extreme for a half dose, did you completely degas your sample before testing the pH?


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## Stressbaby (Dec 12, 2016)

pH changes are logarithmic, not linear like TA. Also pH change is affected by buffering capacity of the wine/must. I've seen the same fruit wine use 50% less acid for the same change in pH just based on a different brand of grape concentrate. I have long since quit trying to calculate additions for pH adjustments. I just add a little bit, see how much it moves, and add more or less from there.

Your pH isn't too high to finish, but I wouldn't be surprised if in the end you need to add a little something back.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 12, 2016)

Johnd said:


> That seems extreme for a half dose, did you completely degas your sample before testing the pH?



No. Did not know that sample needed to be degassed. Can that make a significant difference? Will try again tonight.


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## Johnd (Dec 12, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> No. Did not know that sample needed to be degassed. Can that make a significant difference? Will try again tonight.



Yes, CO2 in solution may affect the readings. If you didn't degas the sample, it could've affected any of the readings you took once fermentation started.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 12, 2016)

Specific gravity tonight 1.030... still. Vacuum degassed a sample and re-checked pH... now reading 3.60 so a tiny change at most.

Starting to worry about stuck fermentation now. I bought another 5g yeast packet... is there anything I can do with that to get it going again?

I am also starting to wonder if I should press and transfer to a secondary carboy... its been 8 days since adding the yeast now.

Thoughts?


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## Whitehrs (Dec 13, 2016)

With 30 lbs of berries, I water it up to about 10 Gals. The thing it your Original SG should be in the 1.085 - 1.095 range. If you are at 1.087 you are in range, but adding more water would dilute the sugar. I would make a 1.090 sugar water, and add it til you get at 10 gals. That should keep you in the same range as you are now. close anyway. you'll come out to about 1.088~ still good to go.. Just my opinion.I'd have those berries in a mess bag, and squeeze them some every day during primary.. You should end up with about to 10 gals. I think that 65% is a little low. At least it didn't work out like that for me. I would get some more berries and have them on hand to squeeze out juice, or if you have 100% blueberry juice available, for top off, and f-pac later.. Anyway, Don't stess over it you can always add flavor, and back sweeten with an F-pac later.. and use juice as a top off. there is so many ways to make it work.. I would bulk age for at least 6 months though, and it wouldn't hurt to Oak that with some Medium French oak. It will add a bunch of great mellow, and a touch of vanilla notes. Again just my opinion..Either way take meticulous notes and post them. My bluebarry is one of my Favorites. I will be putting on a 10 gallon in a month or so, from the frozen berries.


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## Johnd (Dec 13, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Specific gravity tonight 1.030... still. Vacuum degassed a sample and re-checked pH... now reading 3.60 so a tiny change at most.
> 
> Starting to worry about stuck fermentation now. I bought another 5g yeast packet... is there anything I can do with that to get it going again?
> 
> ...



What yeast are you using? 

You've got the pH up, and assume you are now maintaining temps around 75, and you've already dosed twice with nutrients, correct?

What nutrient did you use and what was the dosage?

Personally, I wouldn't press until AF was nearly over.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 13, 2016)

Johnd said:


> What yeast are you using?
> 
> You've got the pH up, and assume you are now maintaining temps around 75, and you've already dosed twice with nutrients, correct?
> 
> ...



Decent news today... down to 1.022 on the hydrometer. Temps are like 75-78F. I am using an electric heater in the closet and it doesnt regulate the temp with much precision.

I am using redstar pasteur red... recommended by my homebrew store... but in retrospect not the best choice. I started with 9 grams of Fermaid K at the start of fermentation. At 1/2 sugar I added 1tsp of Wyeast nutrient... the instructions said 1/2 tsp per 5gal. Probably should have stuck with one nutrient, but I ran out of fermaid K and this batch of blueberry wine has been kind of my "finish all of the uspplements I have in the cupboard before next year" batch. DId I just invent a new category of wine? Haha


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 14, 2016)

Hydrometer reading 1.018 ... getting close!


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## Johnd (Dec 14, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Hydrometer reading 1.018 ... getting close!



Good job!! Just a little attention to the important parameters is paying off for you....


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 15, 2016)

1.012 tonight. I will press and transfer on saturday. PIctures to come!


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 17, 2016)

Exciting update. I pressed and transferred this morning. Specific gravity was about 1.004 or so. I ended up getting about 6.5 gallons. You can see my 6 gallon carboy is not quite full and I have a little over half a gallon in a one gallon carboy that I will be using for top up when I transfer off the gross lees in a few days.

Please we critique my next steps because honestly I am not sure.
1. Let the carboys bubble for 4 days or so to finish off fermentation. 
2. Rack off gross lees and add 1/4 tsp kmeta and oak chips
3. Wait a week and transfer leaving oak behind.
4. Wait 3 months, add 1/4tsp kmeta and bottle

Sound about right?


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## Johnd (Dec 17, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Exciting update. I pressed and transferred this morning. Specific gravity was about 1.004 or so. I ended up getting about 6.5 gallons. You can see my 6 gallon carboy is not quite full and I have a little over half a gallon in a one gallon carboy that I will be using for top up when I transfer off the gross lees in a few days.
> 
> Please we critique my next steps because honestly I am not sure.
> 1. Let the carboys bubble for 4 days or so to finish off fermentation.
> ...



My steps woul be:

1. Let the fermentation continue until you have no drop in SG for three consecutive days. 
2. As fermentation slows, gross lees will drop, rack off of them in 2-3 days whether fermentation is complete or not, they can get stinky. 
3. When fermentation is complete, add KMS and oak if you want oak, leave it in until you think it's a little stronger than you want it to be, it'll fall back in aging. 
4. Rack (if needed) and KMS every three months til you're clear as a bell. 
5. Sweeten / sorbate if desired. 
6. Bottle a week later.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 17, 2016)

Johnd said:


> My steps woul be:
> 
> 1. Let the fermentation continue until you have no drop in SG for three consecutive days.
> 2. As fermentation slows, gross lees will drop, rack off of them in 2-3 days whether fermentation is complete or not, they can get stinky.
> ...



Excellent. Thank you. DO I keep it at fermentation temps (70-75) during the whole process? OR do I lower it to 60's after fermentation is complete?


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## Johnd (Dec 17, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> Excellent. Thank you. DO I keep it at fermentation temps (70-75) during the whole process? OR do I lower it to 60's after fermentation is complete?



It'll shed CO2 quicker at the higher temps, but if you degas your wines manually, you could move it to a cooler environment.


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## Scooter68 (Dec 18, 2016)

Agree with JohnD - I always pull the gross lees out after Primary is done (1.020 or lower). Especially if the Primary Fermentation has been a week or more. I do some pressing of course to get all the juice I can out of there and that usually means more fine lees in the must but... that all drops in a short while.

Blueberry wine, for me, has always self-cleared in well under 3 months time with zero additives for clearing at any point - Crystal clear in fact. One of the easiest wines to work with for that part.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 19, 2016)

I racked off the gross lees this morning and combined the 1 gallon and 6 gallon batches for about 6 total gallons. I got a little frusterated because as soon as I started racking, some of the sediment from the bottoms floated up and made it hard to not transfer the sediment. It seems like blueberry lees are 'ligher' or 'less dense' than what I am used to with wine made from grapes? Needless to say, I found a bunch of sediment in the bottom of my carboy even after racking, so either I screwed up, or maybe this is normal?

Specific gravity is now down to 1.000 and it seems to be slowing. I'll rack again and add kmeta after 3 days of no S.G. movement... probably this coming weekend if I had to guess.


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## Johnd (Dec 19, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> I racked off the gross lees this morning and combined the 1 gallon and 6 gallon batches for about 6 total gallons. I got a little frusterated because as soon as I started racking, some of the sediment from the bottoms floated up and made it hard to not transfer the sediment. It seems like blueberry lees are 'ligher' or 'less dense' than what I am used to with wine made from grapes? Needless to say, I found a bunch of sediment in the bottom of my carboy even after racking, so either I screwed up, or maybe this is normal?
> 
> Specific gravity is now down to 1.000 and it seems to be slowing. I'll rack again and add kmeta after 3 days of no S.G. movement... probably this coming weekend if I had to guess.



For the first racking off of the gross lees, you just try to get the most wine you can and as little lees as possible. In subsequent rackings, as the sediment layer is thinner and more compact, you'll be able to just set your anti-sediment tip on the bottom and let it roll without sucking that stuff up.

You're in good shape, when you rack again when it's dry, put your KMS in the target carboy and rack onto it, then you'll be able to just let time and gravity clear it up for you. I didn't use any clearing agents in mine, it's a little over three months since KMS racking with a little layer of very fine dust, and clear as a bell.


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## Scooter68 (Dec 19, 2016)

QUOTE: "For the first racking off of the gross lees, you just try to get the most wine you can and as little lees as possible. In subsequent rackings, as the sediment layer is thinner and more compact, you'll be able to just set your anti-sediment tip on the bottom and let it roll without sucking that stuff up."

I tilt my gallon carboys and lower the tip (Using a clip at the top) as it drains. The suction on my siphon is too great and it will pull sediment off the bottom so I wait until the level is just about 1 inch above the tip before I push it carefully to the bottom. Still it takes those additional rackings to get rid of the fine sediment. Just part of the routine.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 21, 2016)

A small update for wednesday. Specific gravity is down to 0.998 . It is still bubbling but definitely slowing down. I have 11 days off for Christmas starting friday, so hopefully it will be ready to rack and kmeta sometime in that time frame. I am feeling a little bad about how much wine Iost with that last racking by stopping the transfer too soon to avoid sediment... oh well, live and learn!


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## Johnd (Dec 21, 2016)

v8rx7guy said:


> A small update for wednesday. Specific gravity is down to 0.998 . It is still bubbling but definitely slowing down. I have 11 days off for Christmas starting friday, so hopefully it will be ready to rack and kmeta sometime in that time frame. I am feeling a little bad about how much wine Iost with that last racking by stopping the transfer too soon to avoid sediment... oh well, live and learn!



Don't think you did too bad. You've got 6 gallons and may need to find a bottle or two of something to top up with at your next racking. Then, depending on sediment and your timing, you may not need any more. I just finished my blueberry work a couple of days ago, and after racking, was a bottle or two down, but it was nice and clear. Did a little taste testing and ended up adding a couple pounds of sugar (and sorbate / KMS of course) and ended up with the carboy of clear wine nicely topped up. It'll sit for 3-6 more months, get racked and bottled.


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## Stressbaby (Dec 22, 2016)

@Johnd, what was your final gravity if I may ask?


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## Johnd (Dec 22, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> @Johnd, what was your final gravity if I may ask?



You certainly may ask, the blueberry fizzled out very dry at .991.


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## Stressbaby (Dec 22, 2016)

Johnd said:


> You certainly may ask, the blueberry fizzled out very dry at .991.




What I meant was, what the gravity after back sweetening?


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## Johnd (Dec 22, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> What I meant was, what the gravity after back sweetening?



Well that is a good question!! Honestly, I didn't take a reading when we finished and I'm at work right now. 
While the mother in law (and picker/freezer/provider of the berries) was in town, we did the sweetening. Just went in 1/2 pound increments added to the carboy and were satisfied at two pounds that it was not quite as sweet as she'd like it, knowing it would step up a bit later.
According to Fermcalc, starting at .991, it should be around 1.007, but I'll check it for you when I get home and let you know what the hydrometer says.

Edit: @Stressbaby, the SG is 1.008.


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## HillPeople (Dec 22, 2016)

We do make quite a bit of Blueberry/Honeyberry/Maple syrup here. It's one of the most requested. This year we did 70 gal. and used K1-V1116 at a pretty stable 62-68 degrees. Starting SG at 1.092. Added Fermaid K at 1.030. Pressed then racked at 1.010. Finished at 1.002. Added K-Meta. Cold stabilized. Normally we'd end up at .994 or so, but this batch decided to stop dead in its tracks at 1.002. I think it was fortunate, as the berry flavors really come through at just above 1.000 with no need to backsweeten. In Flextanks now till next July.


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## montanaWineGuy (Dec 22, 2016)

HillPeople said:


> with no need to backsweeten.



I did no back sweetening either. Stopped making SG measurements, figuring it is what it is. If drinkable/enjoyable then does it matter? Not to me.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 25, 2016)

Down to 0.997, or so I'll call it. Fermentation seems to have stopped. I'll probably rack and kmeta on Tuesday . The wine smells very nice for being so young. I am looking forward to trying it!


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 28, 2016)

Today was the 3rd day at 0.997 so I decided to rack. This time it went very smoothly and I was able to leave a lot of sediment behind. Transferred about 5 gallons or so into a 6gal carboy. I added 6 crushed kmeta tablets and about 1.5oz of mixed american and french oak. I will rack one more time into a 5gal carboy after sufficient oaking and hopefully it will fill up into the neck of that nicely just in time for the long wait.

As you all promised, this is already clearing up nicely!


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## Scooter68 (Dec 29, 2016)

The oaking will add back in some fine particles but they will settle out along with the remaining fine sediment. Don't forget blueberries have a delicate flavor, a strong oaking might overpower the blueberry flavor. I can definitely detect the difference in the blackberry wine that I oaked (3 weeks with oak chips) vs the first batch without. Looking good.


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## v8rx7guy (Dec 29, 2016)

Scooter68 said:


> The oaking will add back in some fine particles but they will settle out along with the remaining fine sediment. Don't forget blueberries have a delicate flavor, a strong oaking might overpower the blueberry flavor. I can definitely detect the difference in the blackberry wine that I oaked (3 weeks with oak chips) vs the first batch without. Looking good.



Oh yeah... definitely going to keep the oaking light; I was thinking 7-10 days max with what I have in there. There is already sediment on the bottom from what I transferred from the last racking... I am sure it will be nice and clear after racking it one more time.


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## v8rx7guy (Jan 15, 2017)

Racking day today and first tasting! 17 days on the oak, did not take on the flavor as I originally thought. 5 gallons total after racking. Specific gravity 0.995.

This is actually my first time ever trying blueberry wine, and I am impressed! There is no mistaking what kind of fruit this is made from... excellent blueberry flavor and not too light. The alcohol flavor was quite strong at first, it came in at an alcohol percent around 13%. I added about a half of a gallon of water to fill it up into the neck of the carboy and dilute it a bit. Second tasting much smoother and more manageable. I think a little bit of acid added back in would give it some zip. Good summer drinking wine.

Took a picture of the color, much lighter than the wine I make from grapes. Clearing so nicely! I think I will bottle in early march.


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## Scooter68 (Jan 15, 2017)

As you age it some more that oaking may show up better. I know that it was a light touch to my blackberry wine - I had to think back after we opened a bottle of the oaked batch and then I realized - the difference was the oak effect. It wasn't overpowering but it was certainly detectable.


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## v8rx7guy (Feb 8, 2017)

A little update. This wine is still coming along nicely. I bottled a single bottle for a superbowl party with friends and family. I actually filled a full bottle from my carboy with a wine thief . I started degassing the day before using my vacu vin hand pump... pretty simple setup. Even after multiple rounds of pumping (20+) its still a bit sparkling.

The wine is really starting to taste nice. There is a pleasant blueberry flavor with just enough acid. I definitely should have oaked it longer... I am not picking any oak up in the smell or flavor... oops! The family all said they liked it, but I doubt they would tell me if it actually tasted like crap! I am drinking another glass tonight since we are all out of red in the house and we are currently snowed in! One thing I have noticed is that I never really have any interest in drinking more than a glass. Maybe its the sweetness?

I am considering expirimenting with 3 seperate 1 gallon batches. I would like to try different methods of back sweetening. Any opinions? I was thinking sugar for one, honey for another, and grape concentrate for the 3rd? The final 2 gallons will remain un touched.

Thoughts?


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## v8rx7guy (Apr 12, 2017)

Well, it has now been over 3 months... probably closer to 3.5 months in the carboy under vacuum. I have been sampling the wine quite a bit this whole time and it has become quite delicious with the aging. I think it is now time to bottle. I don't even think it needs back sweetening, I think it is good as-is. Nice blueberry flavor and a nice blend of acids. I think I have all of the CO2 out, there is no longer bubbling when I add the vacuum. I will add one more dose of k-meta before bottling. Any other advice?


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## Johnd (Apr 12, 2017)

v8rx7guy said:


> Well, it has now been over 3 months... probably closer to 3.5 months in the carboy under vacuum. I have been sampling the wine quite a bit this whole time and it has become quite delicious with the aging. I think it is now time to bottle. I don't even think it needs back sweetening, I think it is good as-is. Nice blueberry flavor and a nice blend of acids. I think I have all of the CO2 out, there is no longer bubbling when I add the vacuum. I will add one more dose of k-meta before bottling. Any other advice?



Consider doing some bench trials with a small quantity of the wine before bottling, even though it tastes good as is, make sure it won't be better with varying amounts of sweetness added. Once you've decided, move on!!


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## v8rx7guy (Apr 23, 2017)

I bottled 12 today. I have about 1.5 gal remaining so hopefully 7 or 8 more bottles that I can experiment with.


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