# Super Kleer vs. Sparkolloid for SP



## DaveM

I've been doing some searching on this forum to see which one people prefer for clearing SP, but I haven't been able to find anything on which people prefer. I know that in the recipe on Lon's website it says to use Sparkolloid, but I'm a lazy, lazy man. I really don't want to heat and mix that up, when I can just open a package and dump in.

Any reason why you'd use one over the other? Does it really matter?


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## WinoOutWest

DaveM said:


> I've been doing some searching on this forum to see which one people prefer for clearing SP, but I haven't been able to find anything on which people prefer. I know that in the recipe on Lon's website it says to use Sparkolloid, but I'm a lazy, lazy man. I really don't want to heat and mix that up, when I can just open a package and dump in.
> 
> Any reason why you'd use one over the other? Does it really matter?



My anecdotal evidence: I've done 5 batches of SP. The first 4 I used Sparkolloid and they cleared superfast. Being lazy and having used SuperClear with my kits I figured I would use that on my 5th. After 3+ weeks it had only started to clear in the top 1/4 of my carboy. At this point I added Sparkolloid and it was totally clear about 48hrs later.

So I have another SP in the primary as I type and IO will be putting up with the Sparkolloid process on this one. I don't know what other differences may have played into this but I'll stick with Sparkolloid.
Cheers!


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## DaveM

You know...you're not making it easy for me to be lazy.

*sigh*

Oh well, I guess I'll have to put in the effort.

Thanks for the help.


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## Minnesotamaker

After a lifetime of making Skeeter Pee, you'll be able to buy a new car with the money saved using Sparkolloid.


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## savaytse66

I just mixed up a some Sparkolloid and added it to my POM infused Skeeter Pee about 15 hours ago. I'm pretty sure the Pee is more cloudy now than it was before I added it. This is my first time using Sparkolloid though, so maybe this is normal. When I fined my two batches of apple wine with SuperKleer, I noticed a difference within 2-3 hours.

Is it possible I prepped the Sparkolloid incorrectly. I have a bulk package that says to use 1 tsp per gallon of wine. I have a 6 gallon batch of pee, so I mixed 2 Tbs (6 tsp) in one cup of water and brought to a boil. The package said to boil for 3 minutes and add the hot mixture to the wine. So this is what I did.

I noticed that the boiled Sparkolloid solution did not seem homogenous. In other words, it still seemed somewhat grainiy. I just assumed this was okay since I followed the directions, but I'm questioning myself now. Should the Sparkolloid powder have dissolved and got thick, almost like cornstarch would?


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## wyntheef

I've used superkleer both times I have made it, after waiting quite a while for it to start clearing on it's own. Have had good results both times, but after reading this, I will have to get some sparkalloid to try.


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## Jify

savaytse66 said:


> I just mixed up a some Sparkolloid and added it to my POM infused Skeeter Pee about 15 hours ago. I'm pretty sure the Pee is more cloudy now than it was before I added it. This is my first time using Sparkolloid though, so maybe this is normal. When I fined my two batches of apple wine with SuperKleer, I noticed a difference within 2-3 hours.
> 
> Is it possible I prepped the Sparkolloid incorrectly. I have a bulk package that says to use 1 tsp per gallon of wine. I have a 6 gallon batch of pee, so I mixed 2 Tbs (6 tsp) in one cup of water and brought to a boil. The package said to boil for 3 minutes and add the hot mixture to the wine. So this is what I did.
> 
> I noticed that the boiled Sparkolloid solution did not seem homogenous. In other words, it still seemed somewhat grainiy. I just assumed this was okay since I followed the directions, but I'm questioning myself now. Should the Sparkolloid powder have dissolved and got thick, almost like cornstarch would?



My directions say 1 tbsp. Perhaps you didn't add enough? I know from water treatment that a small difference in coagulant concentration will greatly impact the formation of flocs (the bigger particles that form in the water and settle out). I've had mixed luck with Sparkolloid myself.

One batch I boiled briefly (<5min), added, and it didn't do anything. Batch I did last Thursday I boiled for ~10 minutes and added (1 tbsp to 1 cup water). Well, I can see it dropping sediment every day! More and more! It's already clearer than the batch I did 2 weeks prior.

I'm thinking the keys for Sparkolloid use are (1) concentration, (2) boiling, (3) patience.

FYI, Here is the Sparkolloid instructions for Winery Use. They are more detailed than what we get from the little Wine Store packages. http://www.scottlabsltd.com/info-center/pdf/HotMixSparkolloid.pdf

They say:
*Maintain temperature above 82°C (180°F), while agitating the mixture constantly until all of the translucent globules of clarifier have been dissolved and the mixture is smooth and creamy (Approximately 20-30 minutes)*

They also have a section called "Lab Procedure", which is basically a series of jar tests, to figure out what concentration of Sparkolloid to add to the wine to get the particles to settle.

Hope that helps! I might be way off, I'm only on my 2nd batch of SP!


-Travis


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## Medieval

I use bentonite and it has always cleared perfectly for skeeter pee. I haven't tried the others though so I can't compare it, bentonite gets mine crystal clear so it's all I have been using.


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## djrockinsteve

Sparkolloid is 1 teaspoon per gallon mixed with 2 teaspoons of water per gallon of wine. Add a little extra water to account for the evaporation. Sparkolloid needs 20 minutes for sure. Add hot and stir very well. It will begin clearing immediately and you will see a difference within a few hours. Many times your wine is visably clear overnight but always give it at least 4 weeks.

You can always microwave the mix but need to stir frequently. Easier on the stove.

When I fill my carboy I stop around the shoulder level then add most of the sparkolloid, Stir vigorously then fill almost to the top and add remaining mix.


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## Catfish

djrockinsteve said:


> Sparkolloid is 1 teaspoon per gallon mixed with 2 teaspoons of water per gallon of wine. Add a little extra water to account for the evaporation. Sparkolloid needs 20 minutes for sure. Add hot and stir very well. It will begin clearing immediately and you will see a difference within a few hours. Many times your wine is visably clear overnight but always give it at least 4 weeks.
> 
> You can always microwave the mix but need to stir frequently. Easier on the stove.
> 
> When I fill my carboy I stop around the shoulder level then add most of the sparkolloid, Stir vigorously then fill almost to the top and add remaining mix.



Steve my instructions said to put 8 ounces of water and 1 tablespoon of sparkolloid into a pot and boil for 5 minutes then add to must. That is for 5 gallons. Mine isn't clearing can I try it again using your method or will it effect the taste?


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## Runningwolf

Using Steve's method works! I prefer super kleere and buy it in bulk. Hands down it's a ton easier to use and not that expensive if you make a lot of wine. On the other hand if you buying it in the individual packages for $2.00 it's not that expensive if you count the time you save.

Bottom line, they both work so use what you're most comfortable with.


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## Catfish

I had to order sparkolloid since the local wine shop doesn't sell clearing agents. I don't think the way I did it is going to work, can I re-do it? Or does too much sparkolloid in the wine give it a bad taste?


Also Steve when you said "Sparkolloid needs 20 minutes for sure" are you talking about 20 minutes of boiling? Thanks for the help guys. I'll get it all figured out soon.


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## Griff

Medieval said:


> I use bentonite and it has always cleared perfectly for skeeter pee. I haven't tried the others though so I can't compare it, bentonite gets mine crystal clear so it's all I have been using.



I've never used Bentonite. How long does it take it to clear the pee?


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## djrockinsteve

Both bentonite and sparkolloid work fast. Many times you can see a change within hours. I have never used an excess amount of either but they will begin to remove some flavor if you use too much.

Patience is a virture as even if it didn't work immediately it will clear over time. Be sure it is fully degassed and it does work quicker in warm temps. vs. cooler cellars.

When I start my sparkolloid I add it to the pot of water, turn on the burner to low and stir frequently. I eyeball the clock and shoot for it being finished in 30 minutes.

It takes approx. 10 mins. to get to a slow simmer so 20 mins. of simmering is acheived by then. Even if you are plus or minus a few minutes that's okay.

Stir often so it doesn't burn. Always add some extra water so as the water evaporates it will be okay. If it gets too low you may add some more water just don't let it get too low it burns the pan.

Pour thru a funnel directly into the wine hot and stir briskly (? 30 seconds) into the carboy. I fill my wine to the shoulders first so there isn't any hot splashing. After stirring briskly (and you are degassing at this time too with the stirring) I will top off the wine and add a few more drops of sparkolloid still hot and stir the top few inces as best I can.

Add an airlock and let is rest. You should see a difference within a few hours.

The original skeeter pee was the only wine I actually had trouble clearing. Don't know why but it still tastes the same. Kind of like green eggs and ham, if you didn't see it you wouldn't know the difference.


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## joeswine

*Benoite*

Benoite in the begining of the process and super kleer at the finish,good combo,for me...


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## joeswine

*Benoite*

were do you but supper kleer in bulk?


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## Griff

I have cleared two sp batches so far with sparkoloid and no problems. The only fault I have with it is the lees are so light & fluffy that I've had to rack really slowly to keep from stirring it up, and pour the bottom gallon in a one gallon jug to re-clear. I hate wasting wine, so that way I don't waste much.


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## djrockinsteve

Catfish said:


> Steve my instructions said to put 8 ounces of water and 1 tablespoon of sparkolloid into a pot and boil for 5 minutes then add to must. That is for 5 gallons. Mine isn't clearing can I try it again using your method or will it effect the taste?



Catfish you can do another 2-3 teaspoons of sparkolloid for your five gallons. 

Things to also consider is the wine degassed and warm. CO2 will hold slot of sediment. 

If it is degassed go ahead with another batch of S. One teaspoon of sp. and 2 ounces of water per gallon of wine plus an extra ounce or two of water. 

Simmer a good twenty mins. and add. Then give it time. Some wines take longer. You can do this now or wait a bit and give it time. 

PM me if you have anymore problems or questions.


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## Catfish

Thanks Steve I'll wait a few days and see what happens then go from there.


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## lhunkele

I added Super Kleer about 16-days ago. I haven't back-sweetened or bottled yet. I used the slurry from a White Merlot which has given it a slight pink tint. I have maintained about 73-75 from the beginning. Should I continute to wait for it to clear? Will in clear in the bottle? Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Linda


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## Minnesotamaker

lhunkele said:


> I added Super Kleer about 16-days ago. I haven't back-sweetened or bottled yet. I used the slurry from a White Merlot which has given it a slight pink tint. I have maintained about 73-75 from the beginning. Should I continute to wait for it to clear? Will in clear in the bottle? Any suggestions?
> 
> Thank you,
> Linda



Make sure it is de-gassed really well. (put a sample in a small bottle, seal with thumb and shake. If you get gas release when you remove your thumb, you still have gas). If gas isn't your problem, it could be a pectin haze. It can be treated with pectic enzyme.


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## lhunkele

Thank you for the suggestions Lon! I did the pssst test and yes I've got gas... Got the drill back out and it seems the more I whip it the worst it gets! 
It is possible to whip too hard or too long? I'm going to let it still for a couple minutes and attack it again... 
I'm a bit surprised as I used the drill mounted stirrer every time and yet it seems to have more now than ever! Wonder if it's the 'store-brand' lemon juice... 
Am I going to need to add a clearing agent again or will this one still do the job once I get the gas out?
Thanks again for helping me thru this, I'm determined to see this thru and I'm already planning my second batch (as soon as I can bottle this one!)


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## Griff

Linda, it seemed to take forever to get all the gas out of my second batch. It took a lot longer and much more stirring. I still don't know what the difference between it and my first batch was, unless it was because the must was at a cooler temp, but the second one was harder to degas.


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## mayberry

I recently cleared a batch using two separate gelatin additions and cold crashing. It went from start to finish (bottled) in under a month. And damn is it good! It's possible!

The yeast was a mango wine slurry from Red Star Champagne yeast.


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## lhunkele

What is the 'proper' way to degas?

I just read a post that said. _'...do NOT stir the wine too close to the surface, as this creates surface turbulence which can introduce O2 into the mix, while the objective is simply to remove the CO2..."​_$#%! - I've been whipping the crap out if it, top to bottom and back up again... I've probably done this for 5-10 minutes, half-a-dozen times today :0

O.k, I'm putting the drill down and stepping away...


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## Wade E

Yeah, not the way to do it, sorry. You have most likely degassed your wine though. Basically some people say to do quick bursts in forward and reverse on slow speed and some say high speed. Do not form a vortex as by doing that youll be sucking in air or just exposing too much wine to the air. I keep mine 3/4 of the way in and do the forward revesrse in high speed.


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## lhunkele

Oh yeah, I had a vortex...

Now what?


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## closetwine

Make sure your sulfites are at good levels... You'll probably be ok. Live and learn...


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## lhunkele

closetwine said:


> Make sure your sulfites are at good levels... You'll probably be ok. Live and learn...



How do I determine the sulfite level? I added a 1/4 tsp k-meta the same time as the super-kleer...


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## closetwine

There is a device or something to test.... I'm not that fancy Yet. But it sounds like you'll be fine on this still... As long as you didn't do it for hours on end, I doubt you let engough O2 in to do any damage...


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## Minnesotamaker

lhunkele said:


> What is the 'proper' way to degas?
> 
> I just read a post that said. _'...do NOT stir the wine too close to the surface, as this creates surface turbulence which can introduce O2 into the mix, while the objective is simply to remove the CO2..."​_$#%! - I've been whipping the crap out if it, top to bottom and back up again... I've probably done this for 5-10 minutes, half-a-dozen times today :0
> 
> O.k, I'm putting the drill down and stepping away...



Your drill mounted stirrer will work well. It helps if your SP is somewhat warm (in the 70's if possible). Like Wade said, I give it short bursts forward, then backward. The key is to not "suck" air into a vortex in the wine. 

Another way you can do it is to leave the airlock on and agitate the carboy while you have it on a towel on a slippery floor. Slide it back and forth to make it slosh in the carboy. It'll release CO2, and no oxygen gets in to contaminate it. 

Personally, I use a hand vacuum pump to degas more quickly.

Your Sparkolloid, will get stirred up, but it should settle back out again without a new addition.

Cheers,


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## Catfish

Great thread. Always learning something new. 

I was working out of town for the week and my pee is clear! Towards the bottom there is some stuff clinging to the sides of the carboy just above the bottom sludge. I'm guessing this is just the leese stuck to the sides and nothing to worry about. Except for when I get down towards bottom of carboy while bottling, I may get some in the bottles. All drinks the same though I guess.


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## Julie

Catfish said:


> Great thread. Always learning something new.
> 
> I was working out of town for the week and my pee is clear! Towards the bottom there is some stuff clinging to the sides of the carboy just above the bottom sludge. I'm guessing this is just the leese stuck to the sides and nothing to worry about. Except for when I get down towards bottom of carboy while bottling, I may get some in the bottles. All drinks the same though I guess.



Catfish,

Rack it before you bottle. You should always make sure that there is nothing at the bottom of your carboy before bottling.


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## closetwine

If you can give that carboy a sharp twist the day before you rack it, it will knock those lees off the side and they'll settle out by racking time....


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## Runningwolf

Good call there closet. I agree, make sure you give it a good twist or two at least a day or two before racking.


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## closetwine

Runningwolf said:


> Good call there closet. I agree, make sure you give it a good twist or two at least a day or two before racking.



I think you're the one that taught me that trick! LOL!


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## Catfish

Awesome. I will do that. Thank you all.


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## TomMonger

Medieval said:


> I use bentonite and it has always cleared perfectly for skeeter pee. I haven't tried the others though so I can't compare it, bentonite gets mine crystal clear so it's all I have been using.



I also use bentonite. Nothing but perfect results!


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## lhunkele

After a month I gave up trying to get it to clear, I'm just too darn impatient  Does it make a difference in flavor if it's clear or not?

And what gravity reading are you shooting for after back-sweetening? 

...just two more weeks, just two more weeks...


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## SarahRides

The label on my instructions say to add 1 teaspoon to 1 cup of water and boil 5 minutes, I found that did absolutely nothing. So read somewhere else to do 1 tablespoon for one cup and boil 20-30 minutes and that has worked much better! Usually clears very quickly.


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## closetwine

No it doesn't have to be clear... and sweeten to what you like. Pour some in a glass, sweeten and taste to where you want it, test the sg... then do the rest to that sg.

Clarity is just a matter of preference on SP.... most of us like it clear, but if you don't care......


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## Trapperman

I've never used a clearing agent for my wines, but decided to try Super-Kleer on my first batch of SP. I didn't realize the problem until I returned home... "Allergy Alert: Chitosan is a Shellfish Derivative." My girlfriend is deathly allergic to shellfish. Skin contact or ingestion can be a fatal ordeal. 

Pretty scary considering how many people use Super-Kleer in wine & beer making.

Are any other fining agents shellfish derivatives? I picked up some Sparkolloid, but wasn't sure if it was also derived from shellfish. 

Trapperman


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## roadwarriorsvt

Not sure on the Sparkoloid but the bentonite is a clay base.


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## djrockinsteve

I believe they are both dynamacious earth, clay.


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## lhunkele

Finally, three weeks after bottling my SP is slearing. Not sure if you can tell from the photo, but there is a fine layer of sediment on the bottom. I guess I was just too impatient. Overall everthing with this batch took longer, one-month to ferment dry and two-months to clear, but it sure taste good and is going fast! My next batch is already in the fermenter and going strong, hopefully this one will finish quicker because this one isn't going to last that long!

Thanks Lon!!


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