# Super spicy ginger wine



## Shayne Edwards (May 3, 2018)

Disclaimer: I have stuffed up approximately 90 litres of wine so far, with a quick calculation in my head that is 20 gallons US. So be it upon your own head if you follow this recipe/approach without applying your own wine making knowledge. However, if you are just coming along for the ride welcome and honestly all input is welcome. 

While having a go at Skeeter Pee I decided to do a ginger wine, and yes I stuffed the skeeter pee up. My darling wife is Sccccoooootish so I looked at some of the recipes from Scotland initially. On you tube I found a bloke from New Zealand called Papa Reecio showing how to make ginger wine his recipe follows (scaled up).

Conversions
1 kilo = 2.2 US pounds
I US ounce = 28 grams (weight)
4 litres = 1.06 US gallons (liquid) I checked this on google but I always thought it was 4.5 litres (who knew??) Can someone confirm this?

Recipe
2.9 kilo root ginger (fresh ginger)
4.8 kilo white sugar
I kg dark sugar (this sugar has a fine grain and feels a little sticky like there is still some molasses in it)
1.8 kilos of raisins 
4 oranges
8 Lemons
Citric acid (if needed)
2 teaspoons Pectolaise
4 Campden Tablets
2 teaspoons Sorbate Potassium
Yeast Nutrient
Yeast (EC1118)
Water to 20 Litres

Because I can't help myself, I always need to run before I can walk so I didn't follow this recipe totally as Papa did it, and in my defence I hadn't started on this forum enjoying the info that was available. However if you are like me and can't help but stop and watch an accident unfold a little before jumping in to help, you my friend, are in the right place. That said, this maybe my first successful batch of wine, come along for the ride if you will.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 3, 2018)

Will add the diary notes tomorrow night, it's nearly 9pm local and need to go tuck the little bloke into bed. Night all.


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## BernardSmith (May 3, 2018)

That is a lot of ginger, Shayne. I mean a lot. (about 6.5 lbs in 5 gallons which is about 1.1 lbs or half a kilo of ginger per gallon) I occasionally make ginger beer and I use about 2 inches (about 5 cm - or about 0.5 oz or 14 or 15 grams) of ginger root per gallon (4 L) and that might take a few months for the heat from the ginger to cool down. My "beer" uses enough sugar to give me a starting gravity of about 1.060 (about 7-8 % ABV). Last made some in June and cracked open a bottle the other evening and it was very drinkable.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 4, 2018)

Thanks Bernard, when I wrote this last night I had three or four glasses of courage on board. Upon reflection the thread should be about how not to make wine because as I said it was put together prior to finding this forum and taking on board the advise so freely given here. I expect as I share what I did there will be more than a few people cringing or laughing a bit.
However, I took a sample from the first racking and gave it to an experienced Scots distiller and after his mouth unpuckered he stated that he could, "no drink a whole bottle, like" but reminded him of an old fashioned after dinner tonic, which I suspect was a polite way of saying it was too strong. That said I love ginger and I liked it, probably as it is the first wine without any off smells or flavours. I haven't tasted for balance or gaps in the palate when I get to that point I suspect I will be a little disappointed, guess I will find out at that point but I do intend to be honest through this process and not cover up any of my mistakes of which there will be many. The one thing I hope is stuffed up is the ginger dosage rate because it is quite expensive here, $15 - $30 per kilo or 2.2lbs..


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## BernardSmith (May 4, 2018)

The truth is that as a home wine maker the only person you need to satisfy is yourself and as you progress in your wine making you may find that person harder and harder to satisfy...


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## Shayne Edwards (May 4, 2018)

Okay, as promised, my diary notes (scribbles really) on making this super spicy ginger wine. What I have learned on this forum is that I need to take more time on this part because as I review the notes I realise just how hotch potch they truly are. The other realisation is that I need to take a breath, slow down and just enjoy the process but please bear in mind all of my failures (90 litres of them) leading up to this batch, was colouring my perception along with not having a good understanding of what each component does and how it contributes to the wine making process lead to some uninformed, panic type decisions which even if it is to my eternal shame I will share. 
So if you are coming along for the ride, grab a glass or bottle (if you will) of your favourite tipple, sit back and enjoy the train wreck that is my wine making.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 4, 2018)

Just trying to set the scene a little, I live in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. This means heat, humidity and mild winters, the only frost I see is in my freezer and the stuff which is encroaching upon my hair colour. As a comparison think of a milder version of Florida, for the climate, not my hair.

I have an undercover screened in area off of the back of my house (the mosquitos don't seem to understand that it isn't Florida) where I do the wine making (much to the annoyance of my ever loving and forgiving partner, God luv her!)

Five days previous I had put down a 30 litre batch of Skeeter Pee which was still smelling bright and tasty as it fermented (my confidence was on the ascendency) and as I had the gear out I decided to make some ginger wine. I hunted on You Tube and found the video mentioned previously and decided to follow Papa.

So on Saturday morning I set off to purchase the needed fruit, in particular, the 2.9 kilo (just over 6lbs) of fresh root ginger. I went to the local chain supermarket only to find a price of $30/kilo for ginger and when your mind is telling you, " chances are, you are going to stuff this up and $90 will buy you some very good bottles of red wine", you back off pretty quick.

In all honesty I was going to just give it up, yet I decided to drop into a local market which had some fruit and veg stalls. The third stall had 1.5kg of ginger for $15/kilo, which I cleaned out and I found another stall with lots but was charging $20/kilo. I tried out my negotiating skills on the Asian gentleman to get the price reduced. Turns out he had a lot more experience than me but was willing to throw this dog a bone in the form of 1/3 kilo of free ginger, why this even needs mentioning will become apparent shortly. While I was there I grabbed the oranges and lemons needed.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 4, 2018)

Monday 17th April, following on from Saturday's shopping run.
Oh my lord, you are still reading this convoluted, meandering story. At this point I will guess you are the person who grabbed a whole bottle of your favourite tipple before starting on this journey with me. With that in mind I will try to type faster. In the mean time feel free to critique the mistakes you see in front of you or just laugh out loud at home while shaking your head, I truly won't mind.

Firstly, I don't know how to write Kitchen Wiz in US speak, it is a large blending unit that has a topper unit that you feed produce into with a blender unit on the bottom to chop up and blend what you add.

OK, are you ready? Lets get on with it. 

Because of my amazing negotiating skills I now had 3.2 kilos of fresh ginger and rather than waste it, you guessed it, straight to the blender. Following Pappas advice, ginger wasn't peeled, rather it was checked for soil and then cut into knobs and fed into the food processor/kitchen whiz and broken up into a mince of ginger. I had to do this in 3 batches.

I've got a 10litre stainless steel pot that I use for doing soups, pickles and preserves and this was put into use on the stove top. Ginger mince added, to be followed by the rest of the ingredients.

The oranges and lemons were dumped into a sink filled with 50 degree hot water (100 degrees = boiling, 0 degrees = freezing) and then scrubbed to remove any wax. I used a zester to remove the skins on 3 oranges before I got too impatient. After this I used a vegetable peeler to remove the skins of one more orange and 2 lemons but being careful to not take the pith. Because taking the pith can get you into all sorts of trouble, apparently. (Australian note: In our vernacular " taking the piss" means you are having a lend of or making fun of someone or a situation. Which can sometimes can end in a broken nose or sore ribs. It normally goes something like this, "Are you taking the piss out of me? Right! Cop this you dozy bastard, followed by bruising and spilled blood.) So I didn't do all of the lemons as instructed. The zest and peel was added to the pot. The citrus fruit was retained for a later step in the recipe.

At this point I added 1.5 kilo of white sugar and 1 kilo of the brown sugar and added water to bring it to approx. 8 litres (2 gallons?) Now, on the notes from Pappas youtube post it said he felt the wine was missing something and he would add bananas next time. Seeing how I had 4 medium/large ripe Cavandish Bananas I peeled, broke up into 2 inch pieces and added them as well.

This mix was heated at a slow boil for 45 minutes and occasionally stirred, I now think it should have been a fast simmer but not sure.

Once finished, I dumped this into my primary fermenter which is a 30 litre plastic drum with a large screw top lid that has a hole used to place a water trap. I suspect they are really designed for brewing beer. Then using the stainless steel pot I transferred tap water to the fermenter until it reached around 22 litres. I added 2 teaspoons of nutrient and 2 teaspoons of pectonaise before adding the lid and leaving to cool overnight.

Okay, that is enough typing for the moment. Cheers, Shayne


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## Shayne Edwards (May 5, 2018)

Tuesday 18th April A.M.
Back to work today so was a little rushed for time. I gave the must(?) a little stir and as I didn't have an appropriate thermometer to use, I put the palm of my hand on the side of the fermenter and it still felt a little warm but not in a bad way. The temperature would have been fine for rehydrating bakers yeast for doing bread or pizza dough. After using cold water steriliser on my hydrometer, turkey baster and tube for hydrometer I took a rough reading which was 1.04. From memory Papa was looking for 1.09 which meant I was too low.

The recipe called for the use of EC-1118 yeast which I couldn't find at any of the 3 local home brew stores. I ended up using a Mangrove Jacks branded yeast called SN9. The description is as follows; SN9 is a particularly neutral fermenter contributing significantly to weight and structure, an excellent choice for flower or low fruit recipes or where uncertain recipes are employed and fermentation reliability is a key factor. SN9 is a rapid fermenter with high stress and ethanol tolerance and high glycerol production. No rehydration required - add direct to grape must and stir well.
For best results ferment at 14-27 degrees C (57-82 F). 8grams or 0.3 OZ packet size.

OK, before we move on to my next mistake, why do I want glycerol? Does this add to mouth feel i.e. doesn't taste thin?

At this point, a lot of the fruit was floating on the surface of the must and in my ignorance and/or rush I tipped the contents of the yeast packet into the fermenter, screwed the lid on, covered with a clean tea towel (remember the lid has a hole for a water trap)and buggered off to work.


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## wildhair (May 5, 2018)

Being of Scottish decent myself - and having an uncanny ability to turn a short story long - I for 1, am loving this post. I made a Lemongrass & ginger wine myself this year past and is in the bulk aging stage now. I did not "stuff it up" with ginger, however, I also like the taste and smell of ginger. Possibly because I am one myself..... a ginger, that is. 

You mentioned "glycerol" in the last post - but I did not see it in the initial recipe. The raisins will give it body, glycerine is a sweetener, but may add some body as well. 

I have had excellent luck with SN9 yeast - it's a low foaming alcohol tolerant yeast and is great for flower & herb based wines. 

I hope you did *NOT* add the pot. sorbate in the initial must............ it's purpose is to stop fermentation and is added before bottling & if you are backsweetening. 

I have also blundered my way thru various recipes and found this group most helpful in correcting my errors and preventing new ones. So welcome aboard, Shayne. Cheers!


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## BernardSmith (May 5, 2018)

One secret of wine making - or rather learning to make wine is not to berate yourself too much. Learning means that you don't know everything today, you learn more tomorrow and the next day you apply what you learn... with still more to learn.


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## AkTom (May 6, 2018)

I love sagas. Carry on please.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 6, 2018)

Bernard thanks for the words of encouragement, I am currently ordering the correct items (something that I could not have done without the help here) to have one more crack at Skeeter Pee and I hope it goes well this time because stuffing up 3 batches of lemon wine in a row would suggest the problem is me.
AkTom, thanks for the reply and be it upon your own head, my friend, because I was worried about being too verbose and not inline with the spirit of this forum, yet it feels like I'm exorcising demons of wine making failures past.

Mr. Wild Hair, always pleased to make the acquaintance of an exponent of the noble and ancient Scottish art of blethering and a ginger to boot, it doesn't get much better than that! Just as an aside did you know that recently in Australia, IVF clinics have been calling for red headed donors because apparently the demand has outstripped supply by quite a margin. Not saying you would have rock star status but popular? Probably yes. By the way, our current term of affection for our ginger haired mates is, "ranga".
And, no I didn't stuff up with Pot sorbate in the way you suggested, I may have found a another way though.

Righto back to this train wreck.

Tues 18th April PM
Got home from work carrying a great deal of expectation after this mornings yeast addition, unscrewed lid of primary fermenter and, ........nothing. Went into a mild tail spin with early onset panic over another stuff up. I remembered I had an out of date packet of SN9 in the fridge and without too much thought grabbed it and dumped it in.

At this point, I noticed this morning's yeast still sitting on top of the floating fruit pieces on the surface of the must. If I have read the posts on here correctly I now think the floating fruit is called a cap(?). Feel free to correct me. I had also read on a blog (prior to this forum), how yeast needs oxygen but to be honest, part of me stills worries about introducing "wee, invisible beasties" who are just waiting to lead me down the path of failure yet again.

After two large medicinal glasses of Mr Beams best, I girded my loins, grabbed the drill and plastic coat hanger and whipped that puppy like Captain Bligh on the Bounty. Screwed lid back on and fitted a water trap. Patted my wife on the head, kissed my son goodnight and then off to bed, bloody Jim Beam!!


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## Shayne Edwards (May 6, 2018)

Bernard, lightheartedness aside, the learning part is the reason I keep going and quite frankly why I joined, the brewing forums I found here at home didn't really have much (or very little) focus on wine, they are all about beer and spirits as are the home brew shops. I suspect what I need to do, though is to reign in my enthusiasm a little and set up to make smaller batches initially, while following recipes a little more religiously but mostly take notice of the advice here. Hopefully, in a couple of years time, I may well be having a different style of conversation with your good self.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 6, 2018)

Wed 19th April AM
I'd like to tell you that I bounded out of bed to go and check the ferment except an evening with Mr. James B. Beam seems to prove the law of physics around equal and opposite forces. Last nights enthusiasm, had turned into this mornings feet dragging. However, on a bright note, the hugs and kisses had apparently forgiven the head pat and decided not to hold a pillow over my face as I slept.

Also, seeing how I promised honesty, there may have been more than 2 medicinal glasses of bourbon.

Before I left for work, I checked the water trap and no bubbling was evident. I like to think it is my fear of "wee invisible beasties" that stopped me opening the lid again but either way I didn't and headed off. That said, I thought I could see some movement through the semi-translucent side of the fermenter.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 6, 2018)

Wed 19th April PM
Still no bubbles from the water trap. Aaagghhh! I was thinking to myself here we go again, I had found a new and more creative way to stuff up a batch of wine.

With a bit of trepidation, I unscrewed the lid and my lordy, it was fermenting it's bottom off, so vigorously it was stirring bits of the cap back into the must. Have to tell you, it was a pretty fine feeling even though the no bubbles in the water trap was a little perplexing.

I will finish off Wednesday night's adventure tomorrow, please bear with me.


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## Arne (May 6, 2018)

If it is fermenting away and the trap is not working, somewhere you have a leak. The bubbles do not tell the story, tho. Get your hydrometer out and see where the ferment is at. You do not have to draw some wine into the test tube. You can just place the hydrometer in the primary if it is deep enough. Good luck with it and enjoying your story. Arne.


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## wildhair (May 6, 2018)

What Arne said - if it's fermenting, but there's not "burbling" in the trap - it's leaking. And you definitely need to keep testing with the hydrometer. 
However - in this early stage of ferment - I just cover the must with a clean towel. Until the hydrometer reads 1.020 or less -then you should get it under air lock. Since we're truth telling here - I usually rack around 1.000 myself into an air-locked secondary....... but......occasionally it's fermented dry before I can get to it. 

Both of my daughters are also gingers, and both of their first born girls - also gingers, all with green eyes, to boot. So the ranga DNA is strong with this one. LOL Funny that there is a demand now for red-heads. When I was just a little laddie - having red hair was like having a bullseye on your back for every schoolyard bully. And whenever somebody told the cops - "I saw a red-headed kid do it" - there were 3 doors in town where they knocked.

You spin a wicked good yarn, mate. At this point, I'm with ya to the bitter end. Check your SG, check your ph (or use an acid test kit), stir it daily and forge on, brother.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 7, 2018)

Arne, good advice, I hadn't fit the split "o" ring to the lid hole properly. Note to self: Wear your bloody reading glasses when wine making. Funnily enough, I always thought wine making would involve lots of glasses just not the reading kind.

Mr Wild Hair, great story, your granddaughters sound way too pretty not to have a proud granddad with a shotgun and a couple of spare shovels. Funny you should mention the bullying thing, what I learnt growing up was not go toe to toe with a ginger kid unless you were really committed because most of them had had a bit more experience at throwing knuckles. As for the "ranga" DNA the IVF clinics might need to fly you over to OZ.

O.K. as promised, I will finish up Wed night.

As I mentioned earlier the fermenter was going off and looked more than a little like a hot tub (spa) but without the loose items of clothing of course. (Not sure about the rest of you folk but the 80's and early 90's was an interesting time for me. Apologies, I will get back to the wine making.)

Papa's recipe called for a second addition of fruit, I couldn't buy raisins at the local supermarket and all they had were dried sultana grapes so I grabbed 2 kilos of them. Again my fear of "wee invisible beasties" kicked in. I suspected they would be covered in wild yeast so after I did the whole Kitchen Wiz thing again, I dumped them in the boiler. Papa put them in the must.

I'm also fairly certain that Papa didn't use all of the juice from the peeled citrus, but in my defence, I grew up with a very frugal mother and I can still hear her castigating our family with, "DON'T YOU WASTE THAT!!" So I squeezed all 4 oranges and 8 lemons and added that to the boiler as well. I followed this with approx. a kilo of white sugar, a teaspoon of dried, hot chilli flakes and roughly 2.0 litres (1/2 gallon) of water to cover. Slow boiled this for 45 minutes and left the lid on to cool over night.

Please don't ask me why the hell I decided to add chilli flakes, all I can honestly say is that I can't blame Jimmy Beam this time. I suspect it had something to do with the other ginger wine recipes that I had read talking about paprika, which I couldn't find in the spice rack. Upon some reflection, I have now realised these recipes only used chunks of ginger around the same amount per gallon that Arne used for his beer making, hence why they may have used some paprika to boost the spiciness somewhat. So there you have it, massive amounts of ginger and some chilli for good measure. I am a dead set natural at this wine making caper.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 7, 2018)

Thursday 20th April AM
Off to work again, but I ran the hydrometer and discovered the must was already down to 1.000. I tipped in last nights dried sultana, chilli and sugar mix/ boil, hit it with the drill again and left it to sit while I got ready for work. Did another read before I left and it was back up to 1.030. Still no bubbles in the water trap, but we now know why so please give it as written that I didn't see any while doing this ferment.

At this point I was glad to have a 30 litre drum as a primary fermenter because the addition from last night ran it well up over the 25 litre mark.

Thanks for your patience, this thread seems to be going for ever, it gets better though the next post involves chickens and upset neighbours. Night all.


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## wildhair (May 7, 2018)

A natural born winemaker indeed & you certainly got the title right - Super Spicy it should be. Adding the extra sugar and sultanas will feed the good little beasties - and thereby increase the alcohol content, but somehow I doubt that your averse to that. You chose the right yeast - SN9 can tolerate up to 18% ABV. It will, however, make difficult to calculate the final % ABV - someone smarter than me with better math skills may be able to help with that one. This is sounding a lot how my first batch of Dragon's Blood went. I'm a bit surprised you didn't use the zest from the oranges and lemons, tho..............you know what mom said. 

If you don't already have it - you will be needing a large secondary carboy (6.5 or 7 gal) and/ or a couple smaller ones to rack the wine into............ once the "hot tub" action stops - likely in a few days at the pace it's going.

Growing up in the '60's was different than today. We didn't have "safe spaces" and counselors for stuff like that. My dad told me there was 2 ways to deal with a bully - put up with it or kick the bully's arse. I chose option B - I suspect the ginger kids you knew had dad's like mine. 

This is far and away the most entertaining thread of any kind I have read on any forum. I eagerly await the next chapter of Aussie Winemaker - The Chickens and the Angry Neighbors.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 8, 2018)

Glad to see you are true to your word Mr Wild Hair and are sticking to the bitter end. As for option B, you are so right, a Ginger mate Robbie got taught to box by his old man from a very early age and in a touching and moving ceremony at age 15 his dad handed over the family set of brass knuckles. It nearly bought a tear to my eye, thankfully I stopped taking the pith in time and that didn't happen.

Unfortunately, my notes from the wine making process really go down hill from here but I will do my best to relate what happened.

Thurs 20th April PM
Left the wine alone.

Friday 21st April AM
The must is still fermenting but not as vigorously, however the cap had seemed to have moved even further up the primary fermenter (maybe because I had the reading glasses on) and now I'm starting to worry about having enough space as I was planning on adding more sugar to the fermenter to meet the readings from Papas video on You Tube. Looking back at the notes, it looks like I found another blog on the internet, did some calculations and decided that I needed 8kg of sugar as a target amount to match Papa's recipe.

I took a reading with the hydrometer which was hard work as I had to stick the turkey baster down through the cap and try to draw liquid without fruit pieces blocking it up. There was a lot of fruit in this must.

Just a little aside here, why is it that every time I try to take a reading, the gauge I want on the hydrometer always ends up facing away from me? I suspect I look a little like a dog chasing it's tail as I hold the tube holding the hydrometer up to my eyeline and spin in a circle trying to get a sighting on the right part. Got it eventually and it is down to between 1.01/1.02 already.

Did I mention I tend to panic a little as a result of my previous failures, so with the concern around running out of space in the fermenter and because the banana segments looked really manky, I decided to remove some of the fruit cap (mostly the banana though)
I scooped out a little over a litre of fruit, put it in a bag and that amount hardly made a dent in the fruit that floated up to replace it.

On Papa's video, he talks of giving the spent fruit to his chickens. Of course, that was the left overs after having been squeezed dry. Turns out it was another thing that I didn't think through very well. I'm guessing the swollen fruit at that point may have had an ABV over 5 %. One of my neighbours keeps chickens and we have a good relationship, keeping an eye on each others places, sharing jams and pickles, the occasional tasty ale. So I gave him the fruit to add to his chook food. I will come back to this later.

So with my new goal of 8kg of sugar, I added another 2 tspns of yeast nutrient and 2kg of white granulated sugar. Grabbed the drill and coat hanger piece and whipped the b'jesus out of it trying to dissolve the sugar. Of course, with a translucent fermenter I was just guessing when it was dissolved. Got ready for work and did a reading before leaving. Back up to 1.04.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 8, 2018)

OK the notes get really sketchy from here on and after the reading on this forum, I suspect that my mistakes really started multiplying from here on, mostly these were driven by my Skeeter pee run that had just gone from smelling delicious to something akin to burnt plastic or paint flashing off. Basically the panic around failure started to build again, combine that with a fairly complete lack of understanding and this is how I reached the following stuff ups.

Sat 22nd of April PM

Tested the must and it was down to 1.01 again. Added another teaspoon of nutrient and 2kg of granular white sugar went nuts with the drill, after it settled, checked hydrometer again and it was back up to 1.03. The level in the 30 litre fermenter was up over the 28 litre mark after this addition.

Sun 23rd of April PM

Tested the must again back down to 1.01. Added another teaspoon of nutrient, 2kg sugar and whipped it for ages trying to dissolve the sugar without really knowing if I had properly or not. Sadly, I didn't record another reading as I thought I had added pretty close to the target amount of sugar. At this point the fermenter was so full it was nearly touching the lid, so I couldn't add anymore sugar anyway. I suspect the wine making gods sometimes just take pity on poor fools and stop them from stuffing up any further. Maybe 90 litres of mistakes was enough laughs for them

Every 2kg of sugar seemed to lift the reading by .02 anyway and the yeast seemed to get through it every 24 hours.

So hang in there with me while I finish this story off and don't forget about the poor bloody chooks, that's still coming.


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## wildhair (May 8, 2018)

First - I'm upset that you held back on the Drunken Chickens and Angry Neighbor chapter of this odyssey. I was REALLY looking forward that, but I may have guessed the ending.

Second - couple things I learned along the way - much of which is personal preference and/or opinion, so do with it what you will.

A. Put the fruit in mesh bag or NEW pair of ladies nylon stockings. It's easier to get to the liquid for testing the sg & easier to squeeze the bag some every day to get maximum juice from it............ and yes, I know there is a joke in that last sentence. 
B. Scoop out the liquid and pour it thru a mesh screen or tea strainer FIRST - then put it in the hydrometer tube. You'll get a more accurate reading with out all the bits of fruit in there.
C. Make the sure the hydro tube is on a level surface - then give the hydrometer a spin. As it slows down and stops bobbing - you can get the reading. It's very hard to hold it level, especially if Mr. Beam is helping - and surface tension will want to make the hydrometer "stick" to the side of the tube. Then the reading is not accurate.
D. Put the fruit from the fermenter on the compost pile - the yeast and enzymes will make it break down faster, you get better compost for the garden and it will keep the neighbors chickens from getting hammered..................figuratively, of course.
E. As you add more fruit & nutrient - you should also add more pectic enzyme to help it clear later on. Which you may want to do now. Personally - I use Fermaid-K to give the *good* "wee invisible beasties " a supercharge rather than just nutrient.
F. Don't forget to check the ph - it's easier to adjust it when you start then when the wine is done fermenting - but some folks do it that way.
G. A long spoon, wooden or plastic rod for stirring will let you "feel" and listen for undissolved sugar on the bottom better than the drill and whipping the daylights out of it can. 

We never had heirloom brass knuckles passed from dad to lad, that sounds like a lovely tradition. All I got was some advice from my dad - "Avoid a fight when you can, but when you can't - then fight to win". It's not Plato - but it worked.

Now - on to the chickens and the angry neighbor...................


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## Arne (May 9, 2018)

Just a little aside here, why is it that every time I try to take a reading, the gauge I want on the hydrometer always ends up facing away from me? I suspect I look a little like a dog chasing it's tail as I hold the tube holding the hydrometer up to my eyeline and spin in a circle trying to get a sighting on the right part. Got it eventually and it is down to between 1.01/1.02 already.

I believe the factories build this into the hydrometers. Think it is just probably just to test your patience. but each and every one I have ever used does the same thing. Arne.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 10, 2018)

wildhair said:


> First - I'm upset that you held back on the Drunken Chickens and Angry Neighbor chapter of this odyssey. I was REALLY looking forward that, but I may have guessed the ending.
> 
> Second - couple things I learned along the way - much of which is personal preference and/or opinion, so do with it what you will.
> 
> ...


Good advice and some absolute laugh out loud moments thanks for this. Apologies for the lack of writing my darling girl is not home nights at the moment and I am being Mr Mum for my little bloke. Dinner, home work etc. That said I have him working on a history assignment right now, I can only hope he will be writing as quickly as me for the next short while.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 10, 2018)

Arne said:


> Just a little aside here, why is it that every time I try to take a reading, the gauge I want on the hydrometer always ends up facing away from me? I suspect I look a little like a dog chasing it's tail as I hold the tube holding the hydrometer up to my eyeline and spin in a circle trying to get a sighting on the right part. Got it eventually and it is down to between 1.01/1.02 already.
> 
> I believe the factories build this into the hydrometers. Think it is just probably just to test your patience. but each and every one I have ever used does the same thing. Arne.


Thank you Arne, I was truly starting to think it was just me and that Dionysus and his Roman mate had painted a target on my back. Ok back to the story quickly before I have to don my housewife frock again.


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## Shayne Edwards (May 10, 2018)

As I said earlier I made so many stuff ups on this wine run and I promised absolute honesty, so here is the rest of it. Just quietly it feels like I'm wearing a hair shirt right now but a man's word is a man's word, at least until I pop the frock back on shortly. (If my missus reads this, I am in so much trouble.)

Firstly, the notes I took in this last stage just plainly suck, but bear in mind the Skeeter Pee batch had stopped smelling good and quite frankly I was beating myself up over not continually checking a hydrometer reading from it. I was thinking that I hadn't hit it with Campden tablets and wine stabiliser in time to stop the "wee little nasty invisible beasties" from having their way with my batch of wine.

With this in mind and having had no bubbles in the trap of my ginger wine and in all honesty, no bloody idea what I was doing, I mixed up 4 cambden tablets with two heaped teaspoons of wine stabiliser and added it to the must (30litres still including all the fruit). Now before your castigate me, I checked the must a couple of times before this and it seemed like the ferment had stopped and was just degassing. I was more than likely wrong, and I didn't do another hydrometer check and I was back to panicking again.

Now did I tell you earlier just how much I love my partner? I had mentioned to her how I needed to strain the must, apparently I was also eyeing off the lace curtains in the study. I don't recall asking if she thought I should give them a wash but after 25 years together, well you get the picture. Anyway she surprised me with a square yard of curtain netting for the straining and I ran the must into another 30 litre container through the netting and a colander.

This time when I removed the fruit ( unlike the first batch given to my neighbour), I squeezed the fruit as dry as possible and extracted as much juice as possible. Like last time I bagged it up to take over to my neighbours chickens (chooks). I knocked on the neighbours door, feeling proud as punch around my recycling efforts.

While I didn't expect a medal, my neighbour took the bag, walked over to his bin, dumped it, said," Goodnight Shayne," and shut his door.

Apologies, need to go check on the little man's home work.


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## sour_grapes (May 10, 2018)

Shayne Edwards said:


> I was thinking that I hadn't hit it with Campden tablets and wine stabiliser in time to stop the "wee little nasty invisible beasties" from having their way with my batch of wine.



I haven't been following this closely enough to know what your goals are, so forgive me if this does not pertain to you. The comment above makes it sound to me like you are trying to stop the fermentation at a point where there is still some residual sugar left. It is not really practicable for a home winemaker to stop an active fermentation. The Campden tablets and stabilizer will not kill your yeast. (It may slow them down, and inhibit their reproduction, but there still will be a colony of yeast there to continue the fermentation.)


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## wildhair (May 10, 2018)

[QUOTE="sour_grapes, post: 689670, member: 29562"...........makes it sound to me like you are trying to stop the fermentation at a point where there is still some residual sugar left. It is not really practicable for a home winemaker to stop an active fermentation. The Campden tablets and stabilizer will not kill your yeast. (It may slow them down, and inhibit their reproduction, but there still will be a colony of yeast there to continue the fermentation.)[/QUOTE]

Yep, that one took me by surprise a bit, too. I read that and went - He did....... WHAT?? LOL 

Remove the fruit, let it sit and settle a bit (maybe a day), then rack into a secondary and put it under airlock to FINISH fermenting. The final fermentation - from 1.010 to .990 - can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. Since you added the Campden and sorbate - it may take your Super Spicy ginger wine a tad longer for finish the ferment. 

And Shayne - by "wine stabilizer" - I'm guessing you mean potassium sorbate? It would be much too early to add that. I generally add that right before I backsweeten and *after racking several times* - either when the wine is cleared on it's own or after I add clearing agent. Fortunately - you didn't add a lot.

So - what is the sg now? 
Did you rack it into a secondary vessel? 
Did you get it under airlock?

And what the hell happened to the chooks?


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## Shayne Edwards (May 11, 2018)

Oh shite, Messers Wild Hair and Sour grapes , it appears that I've made even more mistakes than my reading on here has led me to believe, sorry to say but it probably gets worse from here on. The carriages from the rear have nearly finished crashing up through the dining car and locomotive, all that remains to be seen is if there are going to be any survivors from this wreck. (and what happened with the chooks  )


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## Shayne Edwards (May 11, 2018)

Did I mention that I make bloody fabulous sauerkraut, kimchi, tomato relish, pickled cucumbers, fruit cordials and jams. However, wine??? Not so good. That statement is me trying to add some padding to the hair shirt I've donned while sharing this story. It is really starting to itch. 

So if you have the time, come along for the last of this sorry tale, I hope to finish it by tomorrow as I will be having another crack at Skeeter Pee by then because I am nothing less than stubborn.

Ok, if you recall I had 30 litres of fruit must that I added campden tablets and wine stabiliser (Potassium Sorbate). I transferred to another 30 litre drum after filtering and squeezing. There was lots of fruit and from memory I ended up with only approx. 25litres in the next container.

I left it for about a day and then grabbed the drill and pretended I was a sadistic dentist,in an attempt to de-gas it.

I had a two part clearing agent in the fridge called Kwik Klear, I added this as per the instructions and left it for 2 days. It occurred to me later that I might have let the KK return to room temp. before using it. On the instructions it said for stubborn wines to add another dose. It was around this time I drew off a sample and took it to the Scottish bloke mentioned earlier, aside from saying he couldn't drink a whole bottle, he also said it felt like it hadn't been degassed properly and it still tasted sweet nor had it cleared. He also showed me his chanter, along with a nice local news story about his bagpipe playing.

So I went nuts with the drill again before adding more Kwik Klear, I could see the must/wine clearing and after 2 days I transferred to my newly purchased 23 litre glass carboy under a water trap. There has been no further evidence of fermentation and it continues to clear. While product names seem to vary between OZ and the US, apparently gravity works the same way. At this point, I am rather proud of myself for not attempting a breast joke, mostly because I'm afraid my darling wife may eventually read this and living to a ripe old age is one of my goals.

If you recall, the notes around the back half of this, are absolute rubbish, but I can see where I tried to calculate ABV. It reads 13.3 X 1.3 = 16.99% . So maybe the ferment really had finished???? Of course, this could also be a case of straws and grasping.

When I looked into the second fermenting drum after transferring to the carboy I could see maybe a kilo of undissolved sugar along with some gross lees and must, all up there was around 2 litres thrown out.

Tomorrow, I will try and post a photo of what the wine looks like now, along with a hydrometer reading and a couple of burning questions. Oh, and what happened with the chooks, apologies Mr Wild Hair.
Good night all.


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## wildhair (May 11, 2018)

I also make jam and other assorted tasty delights - few of those skill sets apply to wine-making I have discovered. The one impression I get from having followed your post from it's beginning, is that you seem to be trying to rush the wine along.....trying to force it into becoming wine instead of allowing the various steps sufficient time that each requires to perform properly so the juice BECOMES wine. 

Other more knowledgeable and experienced winemakers may have other opinions, and I would hope they would step in a correct me if I steer you even further down the path of despair - but here's my $.02. 

First - your wife is likely an amazing woman. Since she is a Scottish lass, that is already implicit, of course. 

Second - on the comments of the wise Scottish bloke who showed you his chanter.........whatever that is............
".......he also said it felt like it hadn't been degassed properly and it still tasted sweet nor had it cleared."
The tiny bubbles are likely CO2 - the result of the wine still trying to ferment the residual sugar - in spite of your persistent attempts to "stuff it up" and whip it to death. I often get those bubbles when I rack the first time.......because it's still fermenting. 
The fact that it still tasted sweet ~ and that you had undissolved sugar in the bottom ~ confirms it had not yet consumed all the sugar, which moves calculating the % ABV into the very advanced mathematics class. 
And the fact that it had "not yet cleared" is not surprising since you had just added the clearing agent the day before, no? To clear of it's own volition, wine can take months. Clearing agents can *help* a wine clear after you've allowed some time for *much* of the suspended particulate to settle out first....like a couple months. Clearing agents often take a few days to a couple weeks to clear a wine.

Third - you have promised info the bloody drunken chooks for 3 days now and I'm still left puzzling over their plight. I fear they have come to an untimely end.

You may want to consider getting a few books on wine making - Terry Garey's - the Joy of Home Wine Making is a good primer. Jack Keller's WineMaking website is a source of great info, both basic and advanced. http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

If you haven't already dumped it - I would stick an airlock in this Mad Max Wine experiment and put it somewhere you won't fiddle with it for a month. Then see how it is. Or what it is......... 
And maybe, in the meantime, start with something smaller & simple - a gallon of basic apple wine, or a wine from fruit juice concentrate, or a wine kit??

Now - did the chooks survive their drunken ordeal or NOT?


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## Shayne Edwards (May 12, 2018)

Lets talk about annoyed neighbours, drunk chooks and the unforseen perils of wine making, if you have soldiered through this whole thread you will recall how, without much thought I gave a much liked neighbour a bunch fruit must full of alcohol to feed to his chickens. I, with hand on heart, can assure you that the gesture had no malice in it, rather, it was just purely not thought out very well. Apparently the road to hell really is paved with good intentions.

The neighbour and I used to share pickles, preserves, produce and the occasional ale together.

When I squeezed and removed the rest of the fruit from the must and took it over for his chooks I received a very cold shoulder and since that point the cheery waves from his front yard have stopped, I haven't enjoyed a single free range egg let alone a friendly conversation.

What the hell happened I hear you ask, well............ we have a few cat owners around us who tend to let them roam free 24 hours a day and while they aren't technically feral, I wouldn't like to be elderly and slip in the shower while breaking a hip and be unable to move with one of them in the house. Now I know from previous conversations that one of them continually jumps his fence and has a go at his beloved chooks. The chooks apparently either scatter going nuts or retreat to the pen and defend themselves on mass.

This part comes second hand from another neighbour, apparently after the chickens ate the alcoholic fruit, said cat, had another crack at organising himself a KFC dinner. The chook owner came out to find the chooks accessing their racial dinosaur DNA and taking on the bloody cat. I'm told that aside from a few lost feathers nothing really went too badly. Except they haven't laid an egg since and I am to blame.

Have to tell you, I miss the relationship with my neighbour but I'm really going to miss those free range eggs.

In case you missed it, the last line was an attempt at a joke. I'm sure all will be fine soon, his lovely wife loves my non-alcoholic ginger beer. Next week, I will make a fresh batch, drop off a dozen bottles and I'm sure all will be forgiven.



.


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## wildhair (May 12, 2018)

So the chooks got drunk and decided to fight back - good for them! Farm cats are fine if they keep to the business of rodent control, but they do a lot of damage to our wild turkey and pheasant populations here - killing the chicks and poults before they can fly. 

I'm sure he'll get over the drunken chooks vs. feline brawl and the eggs will come rolling in again.

Now - how's the Super Spicy Ginger Wine concoction going?


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## Shayne Edwards (May 12, 2018)




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## Shayne Edwards (May 12, 2018)

Well the photo above was from this morning, it's been sitting under an air lock in a 23 litre glass carboy for almost 2 weeks. There is approximately half an inch of lees at the base and what I suspect is too much head space. You will notice a 750ml bottle of commercial ginger wine sitting next to it and a question to follow shortly.

As I stated at the start of this story, every little stuff up I managed and boy howdy, there were plenty, (I think the only thing I didn't do wrong was take a "Kitchen Wiz" in the primary) all happened before I stumbled across this great forum and the wonderfully helpful people upon it. Unfortunately, all the excellent advice given around this particular train wreck of wine making will only get to be applied to my future efforts. Yet despite all the worst of my efforts there is a wine of some sort sitting there and with care it might survive to bottling. I hope the story bought a smile to your faces at some point, lord knows some of the replies had me laughing (Mr Wild Hair), and maybe other beginners might read this and think "Hell, maybe I'm not so bad at this caper!"

Should I use the commercial wine to top up the carboy?

Given the amount Campden tablets/ winestabiliser I used and when I added it, should I add more if I top up?

With the amount of lees, can I still leave this for 3 months before racking?

Kind Regards,
Shayne
PS Mr Wild Hair, you are right I have an amazing Missus, her only real failing is her taste in men and I say Cheers to that!!!


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## wildhair (May 12, 2018)

Well, I for 1 enjoyed the story and it's good to see the "alleged" wine in a carboy. Yes, you may have a bit too much head space. 
Did you taste it recently? Is it still "a wee bit too sweet" or will you need to sweeten it later? 
If you are NOT going to sweeten it - then I would let it sit another 2 weeks and rack it off the lees, then top up with the store bought wine. If it worries you - pop the airlock and top it up w/ the store bought wine now. 

If you ARE going to sweeten it - rack it off in 2 weeks, then top it up with "sweet water" - a 1:1 sugar / water mix. I don't always use sweet water because it can dilute the wine, but in this case - that might not be a bad idea. That's a lotta ginger in that carboy! It's MUCH darker than my Lemongrass-ginger wine.............which I have an itch to taste for some reason.

I don't like to add too much potassium metabisulfite (Campden tablets) Some add it at every racking - I usually add a bit every other racking. You added about 1/2 tablet per gal last time - the general rule for wine is one Campden tablet or 1/8th tsp of potassium metabisulphite per gallon. I would NOT add any at the next racking (in 2 weeks) and no more potassium sorbate (stabilizer) unless and until right before you backsweeten.

Then let it sit another month or 2 and rack it again. It should be getting clearer each time you rack it. If it still hasn't cleared, about 2 weeks before you plan to rack it the next time - add some Sparkaloid to it. Let it sit 2 weeks, and it should be clear. If it is - rack it and add your Campden tablets (and 1/2 t per gal potassium sorbate *if *you are going to backsweeten.) Then you can bulk age or bottle.

Good luck and thanks for sharing the story! It was truly an epic for the ages! LOL


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## Shayne Edwards (May 12, 2018)

Mr Wild Hair, isn't that funny..........I've got an itch to taste your Lemon Grass and Ginger wine too!! 

Thanks for all the advice and hanging in to the bitter end with me. I will probably post some more feed back as the wine moves through it's clearing/aging process. At this point, I find myself hoping to end up with something which will compliment an Asian style soup like Laksa or Tom Yum, sort of how you use sherry with a European clear style soup. Time will tell.


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## wildhair (May 12, 2018)

Time is your friend...........most of the time. Keep us posted. 
I enjoyed reading the entire escapade and I hope some of the suggestions will be useful........ in future batches. Good luck with the neighbor!


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## AkTom (May 12, 2018)

Yeah, hurry and start another batch. We need another saga.


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## wildhair (May 12, 2018)

btw - the "wildhair" moniker comes not* just* from the crazy, curly ginger cranium covering, which I usually let grow until my lovely wife says "you look like a wild man - get a hair cut!" ~ but also from the ........ ideas that tend to pop into my head.............and I tend to try them. Like - I think I'm gonna learn to make wine. Or - I want to learn to ride a sidecar motorcycle....... No "Mr." required.
Red


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## Shayne Edwards (May 13, 2018)

Hi Red,
One last tidbit for you in case you haven't seen it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...e-big-redhead-book-erin-la-rosa-a8090276.html

Hi AkTom,
Never again my friend, not after all the advice on here but that said, I do suffer a little from the same malady as Red, in fact, some of my best stories begin with, "hey hold my beer and check this out!!" So stay tuned, there is an overgrown patch of nasturtium flowers just down the road that look pretty interesting.
Cheers,
Shayne


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## AkTom (May 13, 2018)

I can hardly wait. 
Cheers


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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 2, 2018)




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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 2, 2018)

Finally got around to the second racking, the wine is as clear as and is semi sweet due to one of the mistakes I made along the way. The funny thing is the sweetness is about spot on. It tastes great already but I will leave to bulk age for a while yet before bottling.

In life, skills count for an awful lot, but sometimes being lucky is just as good!!


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## wildhair (Jun 2, 2018)

It's better to be lucky than good, they say. 
Nasturtium wine sounds interesting - they are one of the tastier edible flowers. The Super Spicy Ginger wine looks very clear for the 2nd racking and it's good that you don't need to back sweeten. Nice color (colour), too! So now you have your first wine success story, eh? Don't forget to add 1/16t per gal of k-meta before you bottle. 

While not super accurate, nor expensive - a vin-o-meter can give you the ABV of your wine now that is clear. The late sugar additions, etc. make it difficult to mathematically calculate this particular batch. 






Did you ever patch things up with the neighbor? And did his chooks start laying again? LOL


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## wildhair (Jun 2, 2018)

BTW - loved the "ranga" link - good stuff. I'll pass it on to my girls, too.


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## wildhair (Jun 2, 2018)

@Shayne Edwards = this ones for your no doubt lovely ginger missus ........ and possibly a warning for you. And I have LOTS of freckles..............


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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 4, 2018)

Thats funny and a little scary too. I am about to start a new wine making thread. Do you fancy coming along for the ride? Come on Red, you know you want to.


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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 4, 2018)

Unfortunately my neighbour still wont acknowledge my presence, he is a man who just loves his chooks. That said, I still haven’t made the non alcoholic ginger beer for his missus. Check the next thread to see why my friend.


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## wildhair (Jun 4, 2018)

LOL Found the thread. 
Keep us posted on the progress of the Super Spice Ginger wine - it looks promising.


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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 25, 2018)

25th of June.
Bottled the wine today, mixed 2.5 tspns of wine stabiliser into 23 litres of wine prior to doing this. It tastes pretty good right now. Will check it in 6 months to see how it is developing, interestingly the ginger seems to have moved from the front palette to the back.


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## wildhair (Jun 25, 2018)

Excellent - must have cleared on it's own OK? Let's see it in the bottle. What's the label look like?


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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 28, 2018)

Label? No one said I had to do a label!! 
Just kidding Red, I just didn’t think I would produce something I was happy enough with to attach a label. I am on to it though.
I have been giving some thought to this whole sorry process (and thank you for hanging in along the way) during the bottling I had approx. 600 ml left over and if you recall I can often hear my dear departed Mother’s voice calling out, saying,”Don’t you waste that!!!”. 
This was often followed by a short, sharp smack with a fly swatter or what ever else was close to hand. Now that I think about it, I’m pretty glad she wasn’t a blacksmith.
So!! Not wanting to waste anything, I diligently drank it all and MY LORD, it has some kick. 
I am thinking with what I did with all the extra sugar, the poor little EC118 yeasties did their best until they could do no more. Meaning the ABV is probably close to 18% and explaining the stop ferment and sweet finish. 
However, it all turned out for the best and after the wine bottle/label photos I feel I can put this behind me and move on to the next screw up. 
Let’s not mention this again my friend.


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## wildhair (Jun 28, 2018)

A fitting end to the saga. Good to hear none went to waste.


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## pillswoj (Jun 28, 2018)

Sounds like a ginger port


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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 30, 2018)

pillswoj said:


> Sounds like a ginger port


And you have it one shot, it drinks like ginger port. This also goes someway to explaining the label.


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## Shayne Edwards (Jun 30, 2018)

Hi Red,
This is the finish, my little man Callum produced the labels for the batch of wine and I think my boy did a pretty good job.


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## wildhair (Jun 30, 2018)

Very nice! So there you have it - ginger in a bottle! Well done.


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## Shayne Edwards (Aug 31, 2018)

..and just when you thought the story was finished!! Took some of the wine down to the local HBS as they had been subjected to my previous failures. The wine ended up with rave reviews, one chap who tasted it asked why I hadn’t entered it in the local agricultural show, as he thought it may have come close to winning. 
I thought he was just being kind, but I will keep a bottle back and enter it next year. Fingers crossed , hey?


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## AkTom (Sep 1, 2018)

I hope you have more wine in the works. How’s the neighbors?


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## wildhair (Sep 1, 2018)

Well done, lad. So - you didn't stuff this one up, eh?


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## Shayne Edwards (Sep 1, 2018)

Hey Tom and Red,
Apparently no stuff up in the end, recently had a crack at Tea Wine and made more than a few errors in that one too, but amazingly it looks like being ok as well, going to run out of luck sooner or later.

The neighbours? Oh well I’ve got a lot more of them. Here is what happened.

As per my cunning plan I made a batch of my gran’s non alcoholic ginger beer and gave a couple of bottles to them (Mrs Neighbour is a teetotaller). Just for the hell of it I had done a SG reading before bottling and promptly forgot about it. When I finally got around to checking it, 5% alcohol content.

Stupidly, I wandered over and shared my discovery in the hope of retrieving the bottles. Turns out Mrs Neighbour is a teetotaller no more and is more than a little peeved at me. Funnily enough, Mr Neighbour, tipped me a wink as I left, and I found some of his delicious chilli relish on the front porch a couple of days later, lord knows what happened but maybe all is not lost.


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