# Started seven kits today



## crushday (Jun 1, 2019)

RJS Chile Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.084
RJS Super Tuscan, started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.100
RJS RQ4 Spanish started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.096
RJS Hightail Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.102
RJS Hightail Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.103
RJS Italian Zin started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.093
WE Fume Blanc started June 1, 2019 with D47, OG 1.089
I substituted most reds with RC212. With exception to the Chilean Merlot, which already came with 212, the other reds had 1118. The white kit also had 1118, but I substituted D47 and changed out the medium American chips for heavy French chips in primary.


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## NorCal (Jun 1, 2019)

Busy day!


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## cmason1957 (Jun 1, 2019)

I might suggest that you branch out from all RC-212. I used to use it fairly frequently, but had a really bad experience with it and not enough nutrients. I have moved on and really life BM4x4, Rhone 4600, and Assmunhausen. But each to their own.


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## CDrew (Jun 1, 2019)

How much wine does each kit make? This looks like a fair amount of wine!

Also curious about why all the kit wines? If you're in PNW, you'll have piles of great local grapes by October.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 1, 2019)

Wow! That is a heck of an effort.


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## crushday (Jun 1, 2019)

cmason1957 said:


> I might suggest that you branch out from all RC-212. I used to use it fairly frequently, but had a really bad experience with it and not enough nutrients. I have moved on and really life BM4x4, Rhone 4600, and Assmunhausen. But each to their own.


Those are good yeast suggestions. A bad experience? Please tell more...


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## crushday (Jun 1, 2019)

CDrew said:


> How much wine does each kit make? This looks like a fair amount of wine!
> 
> Also curious about why all the kit wines? If you're in PNW, you'll have piles of great local grapes by October.


To answer your few questions, each kit makes 6 gallons. I'm trying to build up my store of wine. My wife and I drink 3-4 bottles week and I give it away as gifts to my clients. I'm planning on making wine from fresh grapes this fall. However, I'm a bit intimidated by that notion.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 1, 2019)

Slacker.


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## NorCal (Jun 1, 2019)

George Burgin said:


> To answer your few questions, each kit makes 6 gallons. I'm trying to build up my store of wine. My wife and I drink 3-4 bottles week and I give it away as gifts to my clients. I'm planning on making wine from fresh grapes this fall. However, I'm a bit intimidated by that notion.


Only 2 additional steps and a few wild cards when making from grapes. Destem/crush and press. The wild cards are that the grapes will not come consistent and pre adjusted on the acid. Think of it as paint by numbers vs free hand.


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## CDrew (Jun 1, 2019)

I’ve not made a kit and only wrecked my 2016 grapes by receiving them and then flying to Hawaii the next morning. Otherwise it will likely be easier than starting and keeping track of 7 different kits! So as long as you don’t do a stupid thing like I did, you will be fine with grapes!


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## Swedeman (Jun 1, 2019)

George Burgin said:


> I'm trying to build up my store of wine. My wife and I drink 3-4 bottles week and I give it away as gifts to my clients.


Hehe, then 7 kits won't last long. How many kits do you brew in a year?


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## crushday (Jun 1, 2019)

Swedeman said:


> Hehe, then 7 kits won't last long. How many kits do you brew in a year?


Here’s a list of kits so far this year...


RJS Hightail Merlot started on 1/21/19, OG 1.112, FG .000, added dry skins and heavy oak chips, RC212 yeast, (1/26/19 SG is 1.025, 1/27/19 SG is 1.019, 1/28 is 1.013, 1/29 is 1.007, 1/30 is 1.003, 1/31pm is 0.996, 2/1 is 0.995, 2/2 is 0.993), cold crashed 2/26/19, cleared on 3/9/2019, bulk aged with 2 spirals
Amarone started 1/30/2019 with skins- Cellar Craft, OG 1.092, FG, BM4X4 yeast (added 2 pounds of sugar and another yeast packet. Brought the SG up to 1.092) 1/6/19 added 2 pkg of E-1118 SG was 1.035, SG on 2/16/2019 is .995, 2/17/19 is .993, cleared on 3/9/2019, heavy sediment and bulk aged with 2 spirals
Riesling started 1/30/2019 - WE Eclipse, OG 1.088, FG 0.988, K1-V1116 yeast, Added Kmeta and Sorbate on 2/7/19, cold stabilized 2/17/19, cleared on 2/28/2019 with agents 
Pinot Grigio started 1/30/2019 - RJS Primeur, OG 1.099, FG, D47 yeast, SG on 2/16/2019 is .996, 2/17/19 is .995, Cold crashed 2/26/19, added k-meta, bulk aged on 2/28/2019, no clearing agents
Sauvignon Blanc started 1/30/2019 - WE Eclipse, OG 1.096, FG, D47 yeast, SG on 2/16/2019 is .993, cold stabilized 2/17/19, added k-meta 2/26/19, cleared on 2/28/2019, bulk aged on 2/28/2019, no clearing agents
Chardonnay Semillon started 2/7/2019 - RJS RQ#2, OG 1.088, FG, QA23 yeast, 1 American Oak spiral and included French Chips (60gm) during primary fermentation, 2/15/19 SG 1.000, 2/16/19 SG .997, SG on 2/16/2019 is .993, 2/17/19 SG is .992, Cold crashed on 2/26/19, added k-meta on 2/26/19, cleared on 2/28/2019, bulk aged on 2/28/2019, no clearing agents
Hawke’s Bay Merlot (WE17)- Started 3/20/2019, grape skin pack, Avante yeast, OG, FG, 5/11/2019 .990, cleared 5/11/19 with no agents, added K-Meta, bulk aged 5/23/2019 with one heavy spiral each carboy
Master Sommelier Merlot - Started 3/20/2019, grape skin pack, Avante yeast, OG 1.105, FG, checked 3/30p 0.995, 3/31p .995 (NC), 4/2p .993, 4/3p, 5/11/2019 .990, cleared 5/11/19 with no agents, added K-Meta, bulk aged 5/24/2019 with two heavy spirals each carboy
Master Sommelier Merlot - Started 3/20/2019, grape skin pack, Avante yeast, OG, FG, 5/11/2019 .990, cleared 5/11/19 with no agents, added K-Meta, bulk aged 5/24/2019 with two heavy spirals each carboy
RJS Hightail Merlot - Started 3/20/2019, two packs dried skins, Avante yeast, OG 1.101, FG, checked 3/30p 1.011, 3/31p 1.009, 4/2p 1.004. 4/3p 1.000, 5/11/2019 .990, cleared 5/11/19 with no agents, added K-Meta, bulk aged 5/24/2019 with zero oak
Petite cab (WE17) - Started 3/20/2019, grape skin pack, RC 212 yeast, OG 1.092, FG, checked 3/30p 1.000, 3/31p .998, 4/2p .994, 4/3p .993, 5/11/2019 .990, cleared 5/11/19 with no agents, added K-Meta, bulk aged 5/24/2019 under zero oak
RJS 2019 RQ1 Joaquin Murrieta (Chilean Cabernet, Merlot, Syrah), two packs dried skins, Started 3/20/2019, RC 212 yeast, OG 1.099, FG, checked 3/30p 1.014, 3/31p 1.009, 4/2p 1.004, 4/3p 1.002, 5/11/2019 .990, cleared 5/11/19 with no agents, added K-Meta, bulk aged 5/23/2019 with two heavy spirals
RJS 2019 RQ3 Enrico Alfano (Italian Nebbiolo), two packs dried skins, Started 3/20/2019, RC 212 yeast, OG 1.083, FG, checked 3/30p 1.007, 3/31p 1.005, 4/2p 1.000, 4/3p .997, 5/11/2019 .990, cleared 5/11/19 with no agents, added K-Meta, bulk aged 5/23/2019 with two heavy spirals
RJS Chile Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.084, FG
RJS Super Tuscan, started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.100, FG
RJS RQ4 Spanish started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.096, FG
RJS Hightail Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG, FG
RJS Hightail Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG, FG
RJS Italian Zin started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.093, FG
WE Fume Blanc started June 1, 2019 with D47, OG 1.089, FG


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## CDrew (Jun 1, 2019)

That’s a lot of work!


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## Syrah-volution! (Jun 1, 2019)

Do you plan on differentiating those two Merlots with different methods?


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## crushday (Jun 1, 2019)

Syrah-volution! said:


> Do you plan on differentiating those two Merlots with different methods?


If you're referring to the Hightail Merlot, then yes. The first 12 gallons I used Avante yeast. The second 12, RC212. I plan on bulk aging each for 12 months, then barrel aging 6-8 months each. Then, compare...


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## Trevor7 (Jun 1, 2019)

Dang... and I pat myself on the back when I launch a single kit!
Job well done.
(isn't this where someone says "Pics or...")


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## crushday (Jun 1, 2019)

Trevor7 said:


> Dang... and I pat myself on the back when I launch a single kit!
> Job well done.
> (isn't this where someone says "Pics or...")


The Hightail is in the 12 gallon fermentor. I'm waiting from some Chilean Malbec to start the other 12 gallons. Likely be next weekend. The middle of the five 6 gallon fermentors is the Fume Blanc.


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## Trevor7 (Jun 1, 2019)

Impressive set-up George.


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## CDrew (Jun 1, 2019)

Count me as impressed too.

Good luck with your wine making and please post up when you do real grapes this fall. I'm interested to know how it does with those conical fermenters.


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## dmguptill (Jun 1, 2019)

Curious to hear your thoughts on the master vintner sommelier select. I've only done one (Nebbiolo) and so far it's seemed really boring. Not what I hoped for out of a big Italian red.


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## crushday (Jun 2, 2019)

dmguptill said:


> Curious to hear your thoughts on the master vintner sommelier select. I've only done one (Nebbiolo) and so far it's seemed really boring. Not what I hoped for out of a big Italian red.


Honestly, all of mine are still aging. I recently started wondering if the Sommelier kits were re-engineered RJS Cru kits as there is a surprising similarity in names, selection and juice quantity. However, I haven’t done any RJS kits of that size. As soon as I have an opinion on the taste of the sommelier kits, I’ll let you know.


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## crushday (Jun 2, 2019)

CDrew said:


> Count me as impressed too.
> 
> Good luck with your wine making and please post up when you do real grapes this fall. I'm interested to know how it does with those conical fermenters.


I will for sure. And, I’ll be hitting everyone up for info!


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## Swedeman (Jun 2, 2019)

George, it looks from your pics that you have more than 6 gallons in your fermentors?


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## Ignoble Grape (Jun 2, 2019)

I love the idea of starting lots of kits at once! You have a busy day or two, yes, but everything's condensed. I know that I need to start a few new kits if I want to keep my production line going, but I have a hard time getting around to it when I consider I have 25 gl in various stages of production and am waiting for fall grapes... Love the variety! What a great way to get wide experience!


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## crushday (Jun 2, 2019)

Swedeman said:


> George, it looks from your pics that you have more than 6 gallons in your fermentors?


Good eye... On the reds, the ones that are over the mark have the "jammy" grape pack. Instructions are to fill to 23 liters, then add the grape pack. That addition makes the level rise above the preferred mark. The 6 and 12 gallon fermentors on the far end had two (four for 12 gallon) packages of dried grapes that provide virtually no impact on the level.

As for the Fume Blanc, since this is my second kit of this iteration (first one made to specs with exception to sorbate and clearing agents), I added about a 1/2 gallon of fresh squeezed grapefruit juice yesterday late morning and after I originally posted. Having thought about it, I figured I could experiment a little bit. Not sure that was the right decision but seemed worth a try.


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## bstnh1 (Jun 2, 2019)

George Burgin said:


> RJS Chile Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.084
> RJS Super Tuscan, started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.100
> RJS RQ4 Spanish started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.096
> RJS Hightail Merlot started June 1, 2019 with RC 212, OG 1.102
> ...



WOW! Are these all 6 gallon kits? You're gonna be a busy man!! lol


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## Swedeman (Jun 2, 2019)

George Burgin said:


> Good eye... On the reds, the ones that are over the mark have the "jammy" grape pack. Instructions are to fill to 23 liters, then add the grape pack. That addition makes the level rise above the preferred mark.


About the grape skins, free floating or in a muslin bag? And, do you transfer the wine to carboy for ageing or do you leave it in the fast fermentor?


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## crushday (Jun 2, 2019)

Swedeman said:


> About the grape skins, free floating or in a muslin bag? And, do you transfer the wine to carboy for ageing or do you leave it in the fast fermentor?


Definitely a muslin bag - otherwise it clogs the 1” opening to the collection ball. Lesson learned... Primary and secondary are in the fermenters and 8 week extended maceration. As long as you leave it alone, I feel there’s enough CO2 for a couple of months.

As you can tell, there’s a ton of head space so I transfer to carboys for 12 months of bulk aging.


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## rustbucket (Jun 2, 2019)

I made the WE Fume Blanc also using Lalvin D47. According to my notes, my SG started out at 1.090, effectively the same as yours, and finished at a SG of 0.996; the oak included with the kit was used. It's been aging in the carboy for 3 months and will be bottled next weekend. I need the carboy for a WE Mezza Luna Red that I'm starting this week.

Boy! That is an incredible amount of wine that you've made since January 1st of this year. What you've started in one day is more than I make in a year.


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## cmason1957 (Jun 3, 2019)

George Burgin said:


> Those are good yeast suggestions. A bad experience? Please tell more...



Sorry, I am slow answering, the internet didn't exist for me much this weekend. RC-212 bad experience, bought Chambourcin grapes from a different source one year. My (at the time) normal grape grower didn't get any Chambourcin grapes for some unknown reason. These came from over in Illinois, instead of from rocky, bad soil Missouri. I am guessing the grower didn't add, didn't need to add enough nutrients and the gapes were very low in YAN (maybe, who knows). I made the wine following my normal procedure and all was well, until the last two or three days of fermentation, when four rabid skunks with very bad intestinal issues invaded the wine. Almost dumped the entire 12 gallons. I added Reduless twice, which is the maximum, to try to get rid of the smell. It mostly went away, but never completely. In addition, I was never able to get MLF to kick off, so the wine was a bit tart. I also had another experience with RC-212 starting to give off bad odors, but much sooner and rescued it with nutrients.

Since those two times I have vowed to never use RC-212 and haven't ever had issues. I would really like to try some of the unable to produce H2S yeasts, but I haven't been able to find them in homewinemaking friendly sizes.


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## crushday (Jun 3, 2019)

cmason1957 said:


> Sorry, I am slow answering, the internet didn't exist for me much this weekend. RC-212 bad experience, bought Chambourcin grapes from a different source one year. My (at the time) normal grape grower didn't get any Chambourcin grapes for some unknown reason. These came from over in Illinois, instead of from rocky, bad soil Missouri. I am guessing the grower didn't add, didn't need to add enough nutrients and the gapes were very low in YAN (maybe, who knows). I made the wine following my normal procedure and all was well, until the last two or three days of fermentation, when four rabid skunks with very bad intestinal issues invaded the wine. Almost dumped the entire 12 gallons. I added Reduless twice, which is the maximum, to try to get rid of the smell. It mostly went away, but never completely. In addition, I was never able to get MLF to kick off, so the wine was a bit tart. I also had another experience with RC-212 starting to give off bad odors, but much sooner and rescued it with nutrients.
> 
> Since those two times I have vowed to never use RC-212 and haven't ever had issues. I would really like to try some of the unable to produce H2S yeasts, but I haven't been able to find them in homewinemaking friendly sizes.


PM me your address and I’ll send some Avante your way!


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## Swedeman (Jul 25, 2019)

George Burgin said:


> Petite cab (WE17) - Started 3/20/2019, grape skin pack,


@George Burgin I read this post again, you said grape skin pack for this kit. Mine didn't have any? Likewise, you write skin pack for the Hawke’s Bay Merlot (WE17), which doesn't come with skins?


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## crushday (Jul 25, 2019)

Great question. I typically add the All Grape Pack to every red kit that doesn’t come with it included.

Here’s a link: http://www.juicegrape.com/Mosti-Mondiale-All-Grape-Pack/


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## mainshipfred (Jul 25, 2019)

Are you still planning on doing the real all grape pack this fall? LOL!


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## crushday (Jul 25, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Are you still planning on doing the real all grape pack this fall? LOL!


@mainshipfred, as you know, I'm planning on giving my first go at crushing grapes and making wine that way. By then I'll have all my conicals empty and ready to go!


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## jgmann67 (Jul 26, 2019)

George Burgin said:


> Great question. I typically add the All Grape Pack to every red kit that doesn’t come with it included.
> 
> Here’s a link: http://www.juicegrape.com/Mosti-Mondiale-All-Grape-Pack/



So any idea what grapes are in the All Grape Pack? I really like the idea for kits without skins. Just wondering about compatible flavors between the Pack and the juice.


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## FunkedOut (Jul 26, 2019)

https://mostimondiale.com/allgrape-pack/
Not much help but it’s the horse’s mouth. 
Reaching out to them might be the only way to get more info.


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## Johnd (Jul 26, 2019)

jgmann67 said:


> So any idea what grapes are in the All Grape Pack? I really like the idea for kits without skins. Just wondering about compatible flavors between the Pack and the juice.



FWIW, I emailed and asked MM that very question, it was a few years back. Their response indicated that the varietal content was matched with the wine (when included with a kit), otherwise mostly Merlot.


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## Rocky (Jul 26, 2019)

Something I have always wanted to try but never have is to destem and crush a couple lugs of grapes and then cook them downn (i.e. removing most of the water), bag them in freezer bags and keep for use in wine from juice bucket or kits without grape packs. Has anyone tried this? 

What I have been doing when I buy juice buckets is to also buy a lug of the same variety of grape, destem and crush them and add all of the product to the wine. I am wondering if cooking down the grapes to remove the water would both concentrate the flavor and increase the sugar.


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## Chuck E (Jul 26, 2019)

Rocky said:


> Something I have always wanted to try but never have is to destem and crush a couple lugs of grapes and then cook them downn (i.e. removing most of the water), bag them in freezer bags and keep for use in wine from juice bucket or kits without grape packs. Has anyone tried this?
> 
> What I have been doing when I buy juice buckets is to also buy a lug of the same variety of grape, destem and crush them and add all of the product to the wine. I am wondering if cooking down the grapes to remove the water would both concentrate the flavor and increase the sugar.



I think cooking them down loses the aromatics of the grapes. I often put crushed grapes into juice buckets, never cooked them.


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## Rocky (Jul 26, 2019)

Thanks, Chuck. That is what I have been doing also but I wanted to get some of the water out. I note in the grape packs that come in kits that the grapes are very sugary and not juicy. It seems they are getting the liquid out somehow. It could be that the "grapes" in the grape packs are left over after pressings. 

I remember years ago, when I was involved in making wine from grapes, my Grandfather made a "second" wine by not pressing the skins from the wine and capturing and segregating the "first run" of wine, which was excellent. He then would add sugar and water to the un-pressed skins and referment the wine. This second wine was not the quality of the first run, but it did have alcohol and tasted okay, and he slipped it in when people "over stayed their welcome" drinking his wine. Also, a bit of the second wine was turned into vinegar.


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## kuziwk (Jul 26, 2019)

cmason1957 said:


> I might suggest that you branch out from all RC-212. I used to use it fairly frequently, but had a really bad experience with it and not enough nutrients. I have moved on and really life BM4x4, Rhone 4600, and Assmunhausen. But each to their own.



I was curious about this aswell, I was worried that rc212 wouldn't have enough nutrients so I pitched ec-1118 half way in.


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## buzi (Jul 27, 2019)

@Rocky I will freeze my grape skins at the end of the fall season and use them back with Chileans juice with excellent results. I have never boiled them though. I think you would lose the tannins and flavor (as someone already mentioned). I also had a friend used froze grape skins for baking and making "Merlot & cab sav" home made pasta! Both were highly praised, unfortunately it wasn't around long enough for me to taste!


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## joeswine (Jul 28, 2019)

The third run off would be used to make Grappa.A high. Octane wine for after dinner.
I think they first dehydration. Then vacume seal with sugar water. Just enough to keep then moist.


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## Rocky (Jul 29, 2019)

Yes Joe, without incriminating myself or my family, we have "experienced" grappa which is technically a brandy. (We used to call it "crappa" giving you an idea of how it tasted) It is made by adding sugar and water to the grape skins to make a mash and then one applies the "d-word" process to the mash.


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## joeswine (Jul 30, 2019)

Yes it is a bit Strong ,in parts óf Italy and the Mediterranean it's spot on before or after dinner


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