# Black currant port.



## seth8530

Hey guys, its been a while and ive been away at college. But I figured that I would go ahead and post about what im up to.. 

I intend on making a black currant port wine ( as the title implies)

Ok so here is the proposed method/ingredient list.

#1 3 cans of black currant concentrate add fermaid k and possibly pectic enzyme and


http://www.midwestsupplies.com/wine...ck-currant-vintner-s-harvest-fruit-bases.html

add water and sugar untill at 6.4 gallons and 1.12 sg

#2 let ferment untill sg drops down to 1.030 add 3 750 ml bottles of ever-clear at 95 percent alcohol to raise volume to little over 7 gallons and put alcohol level to 21 percent.

# 3 rack the port and let it sit for about 6 months.


How does my plan sound? any thoughts or recommendations?


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## ckassotis

You're already adding sugar up front, so you aren't gaining anything (I think) by arresting fermentation early. IMO you're better off fermenting dry and back-sweetening, then fortifying with considerably less everclear than would be otherwise needed. Just my two cents!


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## seth8530

ckassotis said:


> You're already adding sugar up front, so you aren't gaining anything (I think) by arresting fermentation early. IMO you're better off fermenting dry and back-sweetening, then fortifying with considerably less everclear than would be otherwise needed. Just my two cents!



The reason why I am going to arrest fermentation with everclear instead of letting it go dry is because it is how I read how to do it on all the guides I have read. My thinking of why it is most likely done this way is for a few reasons

#1 Back in yea olden days it was probably easier to do it this way.
#2 I have a theory that as the yeast ferments more and more of the available sugars more and more unpleasant flavors might get produced that the everclear might not have in it. ESP as you start creeping upward on the alcohol level.

#3 The point of making port is to fortify your wine, not ferment a wine to kingdom come. I could just as easily keep adding sugar to the wine or even start out with enough sugar from the very get go to bring the alcohol level up to 18 percent if I decided to use ec 1118 yeast. 

My thinking, thier must be some advantage to using a distilled alcohol to raise the level of alcohol instead of just fermenting towards it.

However, thank you for your input and please if you have evidence or thoughts to the contrary bring em up.. We are all here to share and learn.


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## ckassotis

Well, here are my thoughts on that. Commercial wineries will not add sugar up front to their musts, the way that home winemakers will. It is actually illegal in some states, as well as some countries. Certainly the Port Houses in Portugal have extremely strict rules about what they are allowed to do to their wines. 

That being said, two points to make. First, arresting fermentation for a commercial winery then provides real residual sugar - from the grapes. You're already artificially boosting the sugar by adding it in, which is something they would never do. The big Port Houses are also not allowed to backsweeten with sugar, as you can imagine (like Bordeaux/Burgundy) there are an incredible number of minute rules associated with these wines. So they have to arrest fermentation to provide residual sweetness - though they do not always! There are certainly some dry ports, just as there are dry marsalas. Just because they are typically known for sweet wines doesn't mean that is all they do. 

Second, with the first point in mind, without adding additional sugar up front - which you can do and they cannot, they would never reach 20% abv using just traditional grapes. So, even fermenting to dry, they would still need to fortify it regardless to create a balanced wine and get to their goal of roughly 20% abv. 

I don't think it is ever easier to arrest a fermentation though, compared to letting it ferment dry and back-sweetening. That being said, it is anathema to many high quality producers to ever add sugar to a wine or must, as you are then departing from what would be a balanced sugar/acidity wine, had you only used the juice from the grapes.


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## Wade E

I think.this is actually the better way as you'll retain more flavor by not fermenting it all the way out. Yes you will need more grain alcohol this way though but so be it. Are these cans of Vintners Harvest?


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## ckassotis

Yeah he linked some Vintner's Harvest in the first post. It's win some lose some though. Sure you gain some flavor by not fermenting fully on the front end, and then you lose it by needing to add three full bottles of everclear on the back end. 

Will the end result be better flavor? Not sure. I almost think you end up with better flavor by fermenting fully, fortifying with less everclear, and sweetening with some more of the same concentrate.


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## seth8530

Those are some good and interesting thoughts we have running through here gents. Yes, they are vinters harvest, and im using 3 cans to make 6.4 gallons instead of just 2 ( it recommends 1 can for 3 gallons for a strong flavor or 1 can for 5 gallon for a not as strong flavor.) So im hoping that will help the flavor profile a little bit.

also each can is 96 ounce.


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## seth8530

ckassotis said:


> Well, here are my thoughts on that. Commercial wineries will not add sugar up front to their musts, the way that home winemakers will. It is actually illegal in some states, as well as some countries. Certainly the Port Houses in Portugal have extremely strict rules about what they are allowed to do to their wines.
> 
> That being said, two points to make. First, arresting fermentation for a commercial winery then provides real residual sugar - from the grapes. You're already artificially boosting the sugar by adding it in, which is something they would never do. The big Port Houses are also not allowed to backsweeten with sugar, as you can imagine (like Bordeaux/Burgundy) there are an incredible number of minute rules associated with these wines. So they have to arrest fermentation to provide residual sweetness - though they do not always! There are certainly some dry ports, just as there are dry marsalas. Just because they are typically known for sweet wines doesn't mean that is all they do.
> 
> Second, with the first point in mind, without adding additional sugar up front - which you can do and they cannot, they would never reach 20% abv using just traditional grapes. So, even fermenting to dry, they would still need to fortify it regardless to create a balanced wine and get to their goal of roughly 20% abv.
> 
> I don't think it is ever easier to arrest a fermentation though, compared to letting it ferment dry and back-sweetening. That being said, it is anathema to many high quality producers to ever add sugar to a wine or must, as you are then departing from what would be a balanced sugar/acidity wine, had you only used the juice from the grapes.



I would agree with you on it not being easy to arrest fermentation, but I dont think the yeasties will have much say in the issue once the must hits 20 percent on them.


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## Wade E

I have made the Vintners Harvest Black Currant many times and its loaded with flavor. Black Currant is my favorite wine hands down hence why I drove 5 hours each way to rescue 18 plants and transplant them in my yard. I always have a bottle either on my shelf or a carboy ageing. Right now its aging but ready to bottle and has been ready to bottle for some time now. Just have been to lazy to do so!


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## WVMountaineerJack

Loosing flavor during fermenting black currant juice is NOT a concern, there is nothing subtle in black currants, you may be better off with 2 cans in 5 gallons and adding some extra light dried malt extract to add some body, we did this one year to our black currant made as a dessert wine and it made it very nice. We also feed sugar to raise the alchohol level and didnt feel any need to add everclear. You wont have a lack of flavor. Think of other things you can add to your currants to make it more interesting, like dried cherries to add some additional flavors, or some other berries to increase the nose. You an also backsweeten with Ribena black currant concentrate instead of just sugar. Crackedcork


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## Wade E

Funny cracked, I was just coming back on to tell him about the extra light dry malt and seen you had posted and knew you had me covered on that one.


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## seth8530

Ok, im ordering some extra light dry malt extract.. Now, what is the flavor profile of black currant? I have no idea what it taste like... Also, wonderful news that the stuff has a strong flavor.

Also, the reason why im doing a 7 gallon batch ( ie once everclear is added it will be 7 gals) is because my only open carboy just so happens to be 7 gallons in size.

Any advice on using the malt extract?


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## WVMountaineerJack

On wp when you posted this question I asked if you have ever tasted black currants before, I have, and making such a strong port with so much black currant is a little nuts if you havent even tasted black currants before. Before you start get some Ribena and give it a taste, its good though a little sweet. If I was going to make a "port" from VH I think it would be a black currant, red raspberry and maybe elderberry all together, I can of each in 5 gallons, add in maybe 3 pounds of ELDME, EC1118 or another strong yeast, feed those suckers until they gave up, backsweeten with some other juice concentrate like black cherry and toss in some everclear to make sure it was all balanced but not trying to force it to a higher alchohol than it needs to be balanced. I keep doing this with fruit, but this year I added to much black cherry concentrate and had so much acid (I put in an extra bottle that I was just setting around) and so we had to pour in some everclear to get the sweetness and acid and alchohol to clear, hey but I got another gallon of wine out of it and it might mellow out in a few years. CC


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## joeswine

*A kit by anyother name*

 THE CELLAR CRAFT SHOWCASE WINE SERIES HAS A PORTO CORINTO PORT KIT ,HAS ANYONE TRIED IT,?

DISCRIPTION--CLASSIC RUBY PORT WITH FLAVORFULBLACK CURRENT.iTENSE, RICH AND SAVORY!16%alcohol.enjoy after 2 or 3 weeks aging.best aftera yearin the bottle.

sounds like a balanced start to me


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## seth8530

CrackedCork said:


> On wp when you posted this question I asked if you have ever tasted black currants before, I have, and making such a strong port with so much black currant is a little nuts if you havent even tasted black currants before. Before you start get some Ribena and give it a taste, its good though a little sweet. If I was going to make a "port" from VH I think it would be a black currant, red raspberry and maybe elderberry all together, I can of each in 5 gallons, add in maybe 3 pounds of ELDME, EC1118 or another strong yeast, feed those suckers until they gave up, backsweeten with some other juice concentrate like black cherry and toss in some everclear to make sure it was all balanced but not trying to force it to a higher alchohol than it needs to be balanced. I keep doing this with fruit, but this year I added to much black cherry concentrate and had so much acid (I put in an extra bottle that I was just setting around) and so we had to pour in some everclear to get the sweetness and acid and alchohol to clear, hey but I got another gallon of wine out of it and it might mellow out in a few years. CC



Good post, you think it would be completely awfully too strong perhaps? Also, I will only be around to start the fermentation and ive givin instructions to a person that at 1.03 add all the ever clear. nice simple hard to mess up instructions...
'

BTW good note on mixing for a while because of certain pockets might not be a 20 percent..

Think it would hurt to add sulphite and sorbate as well just to be sure?


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## Wade E

I use 2 cans per 5 gallon and if I were going to up the abv way up to 20 Id probably want more flavor myself. Even with the 2 cans I still add a little more flavor by using Black Currant juice simmered down.


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## seth8530

Ok! phew that is good to hear, you think that 3 cans will be too many?


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## Wade E

As I have never used 3 per 6 gallon I cant say for sure. Maybe 2 1/2 and keep the last 1/2 and add it if needed afterwords.


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## seth8530

hmmm ok, what about the malt? How should it be used?


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## joeswine

*Question*

Has anybody tried the kit? I myself have made blackcurrant wine and found it to be quite in depth without question with the most different I have taste ,strictly a northern taste but excellent never regard . I got mine from a place called Walker'. it was excellent


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## seth8530

Ok 3/24/12 Today I started fermentation, 

-I used 3 96 oz cans of black currant concentrate (they had a sg of 1.025 and no pulp) 

15 lb sugar

enough water to hit about 6.4 gallons

a cap full of fermaid k
cap full of wine tannin
half cap of acidblend
cap full of yeast energizer

2 packets of 71B-1122

when all was said and done the sg hit my target of 1.100 which will get boosted by aprox .0125 pts when i add the extra light dry malt extract when it gets here.

So total gravity is 1.125.. Hope-full finishing gravity is 1.030 at which 2.5 liters of everclear at 95 percent will be added.


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## WVMountaineerJack

Seth, did you taste the must? How much is in a cap? Crackedcork


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## Wade E

LOL, new way of measuring ingredients?


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## seth8530

ROFL, Of course I tasted the must, it was friggen delicious lol. And a cap, is a standard form of measurement approximately equal to any of the recommended measurements prescribed from the bottle said cap came from. IE about a tablespoon and some change.


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## WVMountaineerJack

Great, glad you liked it, this one will age well also, our regular black currant wines, even made from VH, have lasted almost a decade and are still good. Our black currants from fresh berries has crazy acid levels but lots of flavor after many years. There is also a black currant juice from Loonza if you need to boost the flavor any or backsweeten. CC


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## Wade E

I agree, they have enough tannins in them to stay pretty well. And since you added some on top plus are going to go for around 20% this one will go way past that 10 years. Do yourself a favor and get some really good corks for this batch, maybe some bi discs!!!


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## seth8530

That is awesum news! What kind of corks would you recomend and what are Bi-disc?


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## Wade E

Bi Discs are perfect agglomerate corks with a disc on each end of natural cork. They are pretty much the best we can buy. I know FineVineWines sells some and Im sure many other places do.


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## seth8530

Thanks for the clarification, I will def keep some of it aside for later testing.


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## seth8530

Phew, well today the fermentation has finally reached down to 1.050. This is kinda slower than I'm used to, but hopefully it means the fermentation has been clean thus far. Now I need to be really careful and check it daily that way i can catch her at 1.030. Also, the DME was added at the start of this week.


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## seth8530

Ok time for an update. The port reached 1.030 today. we had a total of a .095 gravity drop during fermentation. 

The port was then racked onto .66 gallons of 95percent alcohol everclear that was sitting in a carboy. The final volume is very close to 7 gallons.

12.7% alcohol was gained from the fermentation. It was then fortified up to 20.5043% according to the calculator on jack kellers website.

Im hoping pics will be posted soon.


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## Wade E

Keep up the updates, let us know no matter how long it takes how it comes out!


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## seth8530

and here is a picture for those who are curious







http://www.fyurl.com/rr.php?c=2&sit...com&url=http://postimage.org/image/7n78k1mej/


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## Wade E

Id say its topped up nicely!!! LOL, be careful of any Barometric pressure changes!


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## seth8530

hehe, In such cases I think I will station my mouth right onto the mouth of the carboy


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## Wade E

But what if it changes from low to high you will get sucked in and then be forced to drink your way out!


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## seth8530

now that would be a story to tell!


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## DirtyDawg10

........looks delicious!


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## buzi

Sounds fantastic! How did it taste? I'm a port fan! What was the final cost for the batch?


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## seth8530

Two new members posting in the same thread? Nice to have yall here.

As far as taste, it is yet to be determined as of it is still way to fresh to give me a clue what it will taste like. Cost...

3 cans of black currant concentrate set me back $102
I spent about $10 bucks on the DME
And since I got the currant and DME in seperate orders I spend about $30 buck on shipping.
The everclear cost about $40 bucks
Plus 15 lb of sugar which was about $10
Igonring my stash of nutrients and yeast that puts the price at about 
So total price was around $192 for 7 gallons of port.
ie $5.50 per every 750ml 20.5% abv port.

The average price for fortified black currant wine is $20 for 375ml

So that makes my price $2.50 per 375 ml
$2.50/$22
IS aproximatly 1/10. Ie My port cost 1/10 as much as the commercial or mine is 1000% cheaper than the commercial wine.

So yes, it is one of my more expensive batches, but at the same time, its value is quite high.


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## Wade E

Not to mention this will be out of this world delish and something you cant buy commercially!!!!!!! Just sounds Yummy.


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## Wade E

2 bad 1 of those new posters was a spammer!!! Nailed


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## seth8530

Yup yup, so the question is...How long should I age this for? How long will it need? And im seriously considering giving this port some wood..But im not sure which kind or how much.


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## seth8530

I just purchased 3oz of Medium Plus toasted Hungarian oak

Here is the description


> Medium Plus and Heavy toast imparted mouthfeel fullness, with only a slight amount of campfire/roasted coffee. Heavy also had pronounced vanillin. At all toast levels, there were unique attributes such as leather and black pepper, not observed in other oak origins.
> 
> 
> 
> The lower the toast, the more tannins (“structure”) and lactones (“wood-like” and “coconut”) will be present in each of the oaks.
> The higher the toast, the more spice and smoke notes will be present.
> The deeper the toast, the more deep the caramel tones will be (moving into butterscotch at medium plus).
> Vanilla will increase up through a medium-plus toast and then decrease with a heavy toast and char.
> American oak will be more aromatic, but French oak will give more structure (Hungarian will give less than the French but more than the American).
> The greater the toast level, the lower the lactones (“wood” and “coconut”) for all three woods.



I chose the Hungarian because I did not want too many coffee like flavors and I kinda liked how it talked about leather, and black pepper as well as vanillin flavors. (esp the vanillin).

Im thinking about adding about 2.6 oz of this into my port. http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/18781/103404/Oak_Cubes_-_Hungarian_Med_%2B_1_oz

Im hoping that this will add some nice body to the port, give it something besides just sweet and alcohol to the flavour profile.. Plus most ports are aged in oak of some sort.


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## Deezil

seth8530 said:


> Yup yup, so the question is...How long should I age this for? How long will it need? And im seriously considering giving this port some wood..But im not sure which kind or how much.



I'm in the process of making a few ports myself.. Golden raspberry, Red raspberry, and a blackberry-cherry, but only 2 gallons each.. And i just keep telling myself 5 years, although ill probably crack open the first "tester" at about 2 - 2.5 years. 

Hopefully by the 5 year mark, ill still have a bottle to open 

I figure the more time that the alcohol has to meld with the wine, the better it should be.


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## Wade E

I think 2.6 of thise cubes might be about right, Id probably add it all myself as I like a lot of oak. This was like a 6 gallon batch right?


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## seth8530

Wade E said:


> I think 2.6 of thise cubes might be about right, Id probably add it all myself as I like a lot of oak. This was like a 6 gallon batch right?


It is actually a 7 gallon batch. By 2.6 you meant oz? How long ya reckon I should leave these things in for? The link said something about 2-6 months.


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## seth8530

Deezil said:


> I'm in the process of making a few ports myself.. Golden raspberry, Red raspberry, and a blackberry-cherry, but only 2 gallons each.. And i just keep telling myself 5 years, although ill probably crack open the first "tester" at about 2 - 2.5 years.
> 
> Hopefully by the 5 year mark, ill still have a bottle to open
> 
> I figure the more time that the alcohol has to meld with the wine, the better it should be.



That is a loong loong time my friend. Good luck with that.


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## Wade E

Yes, ounces and Id check it after about 3 weeks as I dont know how much oak you like. Typical recomm., for 6 gallons with cubes is 2 ounces for 2 months but thats a wine and not a port, ports usually are more oakier to balance out the heavier sweeter wine and abv.


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## seth8530

Yeah, so I guess ill check it maybe a month after I add the oak. And let it oak till its just barely over what I like? Because the oak will mellow over time correct? Also, you think panty hose will be good to steep the oak in?


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## seth8530

5/10/12
The port taste very young and needs alot more time to be anything near where it needs to be. It is pretty sweet tasting, but im hoping once it ages some it will come into balance. Nothing to be alarmed over. Also last night I added aprox 3 oz of Hungarian medium+ oak cubes into the wine via a stuffed panty hose.


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## seth8530

5/16/12

apparently when I added the oak it displaced some volume and now it is starting to push port into the airlock. So I was forced to take a sample!

It taste pretty much like it did before, kinda sweet and smokey with a strong alcohol taste on the way down. However, I did manage to snap a picture.


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## Wade E

I would have imagined this being darker. Looks great though.


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## seth8530

it generally is much darker. I just had it in direct light to show off what I thought was a cool appearance of it.


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## dangerdave

I'll check back in about 4.5 years...


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## joeswine

*port wines*

I've found that home made ports ,peak early and if they don't have a quality body,they tend to fad after 2 to 3 years,the longer they set the weaker in flavor they become.

 Portuguese ports are very robust and so are the Tanny ports ,which are left to oxidize on purpose,hard to match the qualities of a good 25 year old port ,and thats just the beginning of the vintages.


just my oppion......


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## seth8530

Well, define peak early? Im hoping that with the oak I currently have in it, along with the almost excessive amount of black currant I used that it will have some long time aging potential.


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## seth8530

Im going home today so Im going to get to taste how the oaking is progressing. This will be my first real taste since the oak was added so this might be interesting.


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## seth8530

Ok, I tasted it about an hour ago. It has a distinct peppery smokey tobacco kind of flavor to it. Im going to leave the oak in for a couple more months I think. I currently have a final product that is going to drink like a whiskey. something oakey and tanic that needs to be slowly sipped on. The alcohol taste is of course still quite strong, but that is to be expected. However, it is not completely out of balance either. I would not be surprised if this one did well with a few years of aging to bring everything together in a harmonious manner.


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## seth8530

Ok the oak has been in the port for almost 3 months now. Im starting to get pretty curious as to what kind of flavour profile it is developing from that.

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=196066


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## Wade E

Did we take another sippy sip?


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## seth8530

Sorry, forgot to post my notes on it. But yes, I took a sip a few days ago. As of right now the oak flavour from the cubes is still developing in a very pleasant manner. It has a nice mouth feel coming on with a wonderful oaky tobacoo flavour and smell from the oak that goes quite well with the alcohol content. I intend on leaving the oak in for another couple of months and ill see where that puts me.

The port still taste hot and and will need plenty of time for all the flavours to come together as one instead of a whole scatter shot of different taste.. but I think of all the wine I have made thus far that this one has the greatest potential.


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## Wade E

Gots ta love the black currant!


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## seth8530

I should be going back home in around a week and a half. Updated tasting notes will follow!


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## seth8530

Alright, the long awaited update. 

The colour is from a distance nearly inky black. However, on closer inspection it is a dark burgandy around the meniscous. It has a smell similer to a red such as a cabernet. 

On the taste it has a woody background with perhaps something similar to vanilla. I pick up a slightly fruity currant flavour. 

The finish is woody with a heat to it. However, the sweetness is finnaly blending in and the alcohol is more integrated into than it was before.. With more time I think it might come fully into ballance.


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## roadwarriorsvt

Hey Seth, I'm contemplating making a blackberry port. I'm unfamiliar with black currant. Is there anything you'd do differently in making this port? Thanks.


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## seth8530

As of right now I would do nothing different. I would possibly consider using a stronger flavoured oak based on personal taste, but I think I might be an oak ****. All in all, I feel like I am happy with the results I have so far. Of course, only time will tell.


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## seth8530

Ok, I checked on Midwest and getting 3 cases of 375 mil bottles would end up costing me around 90$. Do yall have any cheaper ideas? Beer bottles perhaps?


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## Deezil

Not for long term storage, no... Unless you can find cheaper, used bottles

Beer Bottles & EZ-top bottles are mostly for short term storage

I plan on biting the bullet for the bottles & just not giving very many away


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## Wade E

Are you talking about the Bellissima bottles? Unless you know a winery around you that uses them in their tasting room then they are expensive! I dont do internet shopping for glass, way to much shipping cost on glass and usually end up with broken glass and then have to deal with sending back. For the most part everyone has no problem getting replacement but I just cant stand the hassle and the shipping cost.


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## Boatboy24

I'm fortunate in that I can get 24 for about $18 at my LHBS. They were out of stock for weeks though and I just about bought online myself. Fortunately, they got 10 cases last week. I haven't seen too many hot deals on line. Especially when shipping is added. Have you checked All the sponsors here? 

These guys are pretty good. I ordered 3 cases of 750's from them when I first got started (before finding my local source) and the shipping wasn't too bad. 

http://www.shorecontainer.com/375ml.aspx


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## seth8530

@ Deezil, Thanks for the advice. I think I will bite the bullet and get the 375 ml bottles in green.
@Wade, Yeah I think that is what they are called. I am going to try my luck with getting them shipped in because the local HBSS is kinda over priced around here.
@Boatboy I Just checked the sponsors unfortunately none of them have as good of a deal as you posted. In fact, the price on your link is the best one I have seen around. Do you know if these guys are a reputable source?


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## Boatboy24

Seth,

I've only ordered from them once. But it was a no hassle experience. I bought 3 cases of 750's from them. Everything went fine. Had I not found my local source a mere 4 miles from my house, I'd still be ordering from them. I did find that it pays to play with the quantities though. You might be able to get 2 cases shipped for $20, but adding a third case may not increase shipping at all. So, look at different quantities - there may be a "sweet spot" that will make shipping a little easier to bear.


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## ckassotis

Hey Seth, I have used http://morewinemaking.com/view_prod...ne_Bottles_-_Corkable___Domed_bottom_12_count in the past for my 375s. It works out to $21/case, saving you a decent bit from the Midwest bottles. 

The link that Boatboy posted though is even better. I have no experience with them though, but might try them myself in the future. If you try, let us know how it goes! Thanks Boatboy!


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## seth8530

Yeah, thanks for the link. I also saw them bottles. Now the question is what kind of corks and what kind of corker I will need to get them corks into the bottles.


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## Deezil

Pretty sure most use a 9 x 1.75 cork

Would think a floor corker would work just fine


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## seth8530

Yeah, I think im gona need to get me one of those floor corkers.. Most of the bottles I have been doing with my hand corker have corks in them that are only halfway in.


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## seth8530

Just ordered a Portuguese floor corker, 3 cases of 375 ml Bordeaux bottles , as well as 100 synthetic Normacorcs for extended aging. 

I ordered from juicegrape.com and it ended up costing me $ 141 in total. Hooray for free shipping code and no tax!! My only complaint is that their website needs some serious work.

At Midwest a similar order would of costing around $180 if I remember correctly

and at shore container the bottles would of ended up costing me $100 alone because of shipping.


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## seth8530

Toys! I got them! woo! So today I got to come home to a new floor corker, a boatload of bottles and 100 corks. Of course, the first thing I did was test this beast out. The cork went right on in with one beautiful motion. I did get some very slight ridging on the cork that was only apparent to me after running my hand on an extracted cork. I have heard of this happening before but I do not think it will be an issue. It did not leak water and I doubt that it will leak air. Esp once I put wax on top of the corks.

Of course, and for all of you out there I have some pictures... Because pictures are cool!

Port bottling is set to commence on Friday.


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## Boatboy24

Congrats on the new toys! Just got a Port. corker myself a few months ago - so much better than the two lever handheld.


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## seth8530

Boatboy24 said:


> Congrats on the new toys! Just got a Port. corker myself a few months ago - so much better than the two lever handheld.



Oh yes I agree a floor corKer hands down beats a hand held model.
. Pics are on the way!


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## seth8530

First off I would like to thank you all for your help in this project. Everything y'all have said has been very encouraging and I do my best to consider every suggestion. Second, comes a small story.

A few days ago we decided to go ahead and bottle the port inspired fortified wine. We had a crew of three people working on it so we managed to make a great time of it. The corker worked like a dream and all was well.

Yesterday, we decided we were going to be classy people and do a little bit of a throw back. We made ourselves some wax, melted it and then waxed our caps.... That was when all the fun started... It seems that when you have enough hotwax on the neck of the bottles for long enough it can heat up the airspace inside thus increasing the pressure due to volume being held constants... The results can be observed below.....





Thankfully, this only happened with four of my bottles and they are all holding steady right now so I do not believe it was due to CO2 or renewed fermentation. So, a few pictures of the finished products are down below.


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## roadwarriorsvt

Very nice. Did you ever work for Makers Mark? Haha


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## Boatboy24

I like the wax touch. Very nice. I'm happy to hear you didn't have a full batch of bottle bombs.


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## seth8530

Thanks guys, and no I never worked at makers mark however the resemblance is astonishing. I used a 20 glue stick to 12 crayon ratio.. However, I feel like some extra crayons might help out a bit.


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## seth8530

So, last night during a rather heavy night of drinking someone convinced me to open up one of my bottles of port. We tasted it and at the time thought it was amazing. Fortunately, we did not finish the bottle.

I am tasting it right now. The things I notice are:

1) A slightly sweet smokey oak dark berry taste.
2) Some light vanilla notes
3) A nice lingering flavour, with a nice mouthfill with the oak contributing an almost dry mouth feel.

The ammount this port has changed in a couple of months is astonishing. I can not wait to see how this thing changes with time. Do any of you know of a competition I could enter this into so I could get some nice feedback?


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## ckassotis

WineMaker magazine, wines due in by March 15th for competition:
http://www.winemakermag.com/competition

Probably one or two others as well but haven't had the chance to look. Been stupidly busy lately.  Good luck!


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## seth8530

If they will let me submit in 375ml bottles instead of 750 ml I might be tempted to compete in that one.


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## ckassotis

Yep! Pretty much any competition will allow for dessert style wines to be submitted in 375s rather than 750. The only question normally is whether they ask for 1 or 2 bottles. It looks like 1 for this one.


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## seth8530

Yeah, I tried calling them to get in contact with them about it but never really found anyone to get ahold of.. Have you ever competed in this competition?


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## WVMountaineerJack

Yes, its a point system so there can be multiple winners in each category. You may want to enter your into the fruit wine catagory instead of the port since its not a real port and anything that is not a classical port confuses them, but as a fruit wine you shouldnt have any problem. WVMJ


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## seth8530

Ahh, not that would be an idea.. I wounder if the fortification process would disqualify me though... Do you know of any other competitions that are coming up?


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## WVMountaineerJack

Go out to their site and check out the catagories, you might find a better one. I dont do a lot of comps, my wine is to valuable to me to be shipping it all over the country for a medal so we only do a couple of the big comps each year. Better get on it though, the time is running out fast on winemakersmag comp. WVMJ



seth8530 said:


> Ahh, not that would be an idea.. I wounder if the fortification process would disqualify me though... Do you know of any other competitions that are coming up?


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## seth8530

Ok, I think I will find somewhere to stick it in on their comp.. How is their feedback?


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## WVMountaineerJack

They have like 4000 entries so dont expect much more than some sparse comments, they give you a checksheet that they use for figuring out the points. WVMJ


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## seth8530

Well, a check list isnt bad i guess. Do you think i should enter it under other fortified or under berry fruit?


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## WVMountaineerJack

Seth, I have never entered a real fortified wine so cant help. WVMJ


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## ckassotis

Most competitions would require you to enter under the port/fortified category. Not sure if these rules would require that or not, but I would definitely enter it under port. As for whether this competition is good, it might be one of the best ones to enter. Perhaps less feedback, but 4000-5000 entries means you will get truly unbiased feedback on your wines relative to a lot of other people in the country.


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## jimmyjames23

Imagine how I feel. Everytime I go to my cellar I pass a barrel of port that has been aging for 5 years. 
I haven't touched it, looked at it, smelled it or opened it since early 2008. 
2015 will be a good year.


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## seth8530

ckassotis said:


> Most competitions would require you to enter under the port/fortified category. Not sure if these rules would require that or not, but I would definitely enter it under port. As for whether this competition is good, it might be one of the best ones to enter. Perhaps less feedback, but 4000-5000 entries means you will get truly unbiased feedback on your wines relative to a lot of other people in the country.



Hmm, I think I will try to get my submission in the mail soon then. Why do you recommend the port category vs other fortified?




jimmyjames23 said:


> Imagine how I feel. Everytime I go to my cellar I pass a barrel of port that has been aging for 5 years.
> I haven't touched it, looked at it, smelled it or opened it since early 2008.
> 2015 will be a good year.



Hehe, are you talking about that port kit you started a long while back? I intend on keeping some of my "port" around for the next few years. However, I am not sure if it would do as well as yours during the 5 year time period because mine is technically fruit based while I believe yours is grape and raisin? Either way, major respects to you.


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## jimmyjames23

seth8530 said:


> Hmm, I think I will try to get my submission in the mail soon then. Why do you recommend the port category vs other fortified?
> 
> Hehe, are you talking about that port kit you started a long while back? I intend on keeping some of my "port" around for the next few years. However, I am not sure if it would do as well as yours during the 5 year time period because mine is technically fruit based while I believe yours is grape and raisin? Either way, major respects to you.



Nope. This is a traditional port made from the lees of all my batches from 2 years. 
I side batch my wines. I brew 7 gallons total with one gallon separated for topping up. When I rack my 6 1/2 gallon to a 6 gallon there is a 1/2 gallon left over in heavy lees/juice. I put that into a gallon jug, top it up to 3/4 and add more sugar to bring the SG from its racked 1.000 back up to 1.080 (ish) and referment. I also take the side batch and rack that to bring the port batch up to full volume. I just keep repeating until my ABV is 18% on the port batch. 
The port gallon gets racked. Put into a clean gallon, air locked and stored in a cool dark place until I have enough batches to fill a 50L barrel. 
When I'm ready to retire a barrel I just fill it with all the port batches and let it sit a few years.


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## seth8530

Sounds like you have an efficient process going on with how you keep on replinishing your top off container. What do you top off your topping off container with before you re-ferment it? 

BTW if you are interested in more accurate ABV calculations I have built both a calculator and equation for exactly the kind of re fermenting and re additions you are doing.

Sounds like a very interesting, efficient, and time consuming processes you have going on there ( :

You manage to taste any of your product yet?


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## jimmyjames23

I rack into smaller and smaller vessels usually if I have three quarters of a gallon of finished port I will rack it into a few wine bottles for storage. I can always use any of the wine laying around for topping up and re fermenting provided it does not have sorbate in it.


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## seth8530

Ah cool deal, So why do you recommend that I compete in the port category vs the other fortified wine category?


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## jimmyjames23

Because it's a port. Unless they have a "fruit port" category.


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## seth8530

Hmm, im just hoping they dont dq it for not being made from graoes or something


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## ckassotis

http://winemakermag.com/images/stories/competition/2012winecompresults6.15.12.pdf

If you look at past results for this competition, the port category is where yours fits best. The other category looks like a hodgepodge of various things - like where good things go to die. Port category saw 181 entries, including many fruit ports, and gave out 30 golds last year. Too many silver/bronze for me to even bother counting. Looks like a good category to be in.


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## seth8530

Thanks for the info Chris, I see that many of the entries that did well in the port style were in fact berry based. I assume a 375 ml bottle will work fine?


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## ckassotis

It looks like 1 375 will do for this competition. Some explicitly state that if you submit in a 375 they want 2 bottles, but this one says that they only want one bottle per entry. You should be golden! I've got 4 entries for this competition all packaged up myself, will get them shipped out tomorrow or Thursday.


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## seth8530

Hah awesome! I its a good thing that they will take the 375 ml format because I do not have my corker with me! Do we just put the check inside of the package that we send them as well as the completed entry information?

BTW am I reading this correctly when it says that I can enter as many wines as I want for a single payment of 25$?


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## ckassotis

Yeah I just put the check in the package along with the form. Make sure you fill out the form with your info and the wine info and then make sure you follow the directions for labeling the wine you put in there as well. 

Each entry will be an additional $25, sadly.


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## seth8530

Ouch, so I guess I shall only have one entry lol. Have you ever used fedex for shipping cooking vinegar before? Or do you still recommend UPS like they do?


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## ckassotis

I haven't. I've shipped olive oil via USPS quite a few times with good success, but only when necessary (overseas, etc.). I really like UPS - their prices seem good and they have only broken one box of mine in 5 years of shipping 10+ boxes of wine a year. They were good about that one as well, ended up giving me a $90 check for it. Fedex just isn't as convenient for me and I'm not as sure of their policies, so I avoid them. UPS never even asks what I'm shipping.


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## seth8530

Ahh alright thanks, I just got my competition form filled, my shipping label printed, and the wine boxed and packaged. Little bugger will cost 13 bucks to ship /: oh well lol


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## jimmyjames23

Keep us posted with the results.


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## spaniel

Thanks for all the info in this thread; it has been interesting. I started a batch of black raspberry port last August and have been using information from this thread; completing the oaking now.


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## seth8530

No problem at all spaniel.. I am thrilled that you have found my port adventure usefull and interisting.
What kind of oak did you end up using?


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## spaniel

seth8530 said:


> No problem at all spaniel.. I am thrilled that you have found my port adventure usefull and interisting.
> What kind of oak did you end up using?



Medium toast french oak chips. That's what I had on hand for everything else. 

I have a 5gal full to the top, and an additional 1/2gal container. I oaked that 1/2gal to 1.2oz oak/gal for 3mo, and both myself and my wife felt it was light. So today I added oak to the 5gal up to that level, and brought the 1/2 gal up to a total of 2.4oz/gal. I'll give it at least a month before tasting and deciding how much to add to the 5gal batch.


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## seth8530

Very interesting, make sure you keep on tasting that 1/2 gallon because that is a lot of oak for such a small volume. However, nothing wrong with a little oak eh?

I encourage you to also post a thread about your own topic. I am interested to see your process ( :


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## spaniel

seth8530 said:


> Very interesting, make sure you keep on tasting that 1/2 gallon because that is a lot of oak for such a small volume. However, nothing wrong with a little oak eh?
> 
> I encourage you to also post a thread about your own topic. I am interested to see your process ( :



I'm not sure it's worth it's own thread right now; when I get it bottled I'll post the whole process for community info.

The nice thing about having the 1/2 in addition to the carbuoy is that I get to use it to experiment. I agree that with the second addition the oak is quite high. But the first addition (1.2oz/gal) left the oak barely adding taste. This is why I am now bringing the 5gal up to the lower oak level while I bring the test batch up and see if it's too much. 1/2gal is not going to make me cry if I over-oak it.


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## seth8530

Ahh, now that is some good thinking on your part. Do you have any pictures of your rasberry "port" that you are willing to post?


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## WVMountaineerJack

Now you have to wait a couple of months to see if they liked it or thought you tried to poison them WVMJ


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## spaniel

seth8530 said:


> Ahh, now that is some good thinking on your part. Do you have any pictures of your rasberry "port" that you are willing to post?



I don't, but there is no reason not to post some. When I get around to it I will post them in a new thread.


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## seth8530

Yeah, I think that would be really interesting.


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## seth8530

I have one last bottle of black currant port I am willing to open up this year. The question is... when do I open it? After the competition? Now? Never?


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## WVMountaineerJack

You could wait until you get your judging notes back in the mail days after the competition, then open a bottle, take a big drink, and open your envelope and figure out where the judges went wrong when they tasted a 6 month old port?

WVMJ


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## seth8530

Eh, it was just over a year old when they tasted it. However, that is not a bad idea.


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## WVMountaineerJack

Seth, Did your notes come back with any good constructive criticism? I actually had 2 judges contradict each other, a first for me, I thought that was pretty funny. WVMJ


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## seth8530

I have not received mine yet. When did you get yours?


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## seth8530

Ok, I am uploading my judging results for everyone to see. When the wine was judged it was around 13 months old. I am defiantly mildly disappointed with the results. I wonder if the reason why the judged the taste and after taste so harsh was because of category I put it in. Around the july 4 weekend I will do my own tasting with some frineds and we will see if we can find these flaws that they speak of.


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## Deezil

Honestly, it seems young to me.

Bitterness
High Alcohol
No aroma
Out of balance

.. Does that say 'meaty'?


If it had aged longer, the "high alcohol" would have faded back more, the aroma would have emerged in that same step, which would have effected the balance... Thats 3 of the 4 they mentioned... Bitterness.. Did you over press/extract? Or is that tannin-bitterness that didnt age out?


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## seth8530

Lol yes! as best as I can read it, it says meaty lol. It would be nice to see if all of those features do age out over time. As far as bitter, I have no idea why they would say bitter. I used black currant concentrate so no need to worry about over pressing and the only tannin component in this wine is Hungarian med+ oak. That is a thought, maybe over the course of a year or so it might change in a way that is unexpected.


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## seth8530

Just gave this thread a quick re glance over. I think I might give one of the bottles a tasting soon to see if it has improved.


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## TinyPirate

I just read all this and want to know how the competition went!


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## seth8530

TinyPirate said:


> I just read all this and want to know how the competition went!



Rofl, get ready for the antithesis of what is awesome. Check out my post on the very end of page 13. In short, they ripped me to shreds. However, it could be as others have noted that it might have been a bit young at the time. However, I still have a good bit of my bottles still aging out right now.


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## Boatboy24

I didn't see this earlier for some reason, but seeing your scores, I'm glad I decided not to make any entries into that competition this year. It seems to me that if you are finding enough fault with a wine to give it 1 out of 6 points (or less), you should be able to back that up with some detail. Giving a 1 or a 0 with no explanation is simply not acceptable to me - particularly for a contest as expensive as that one. 

This wine has sounded good to me from the word "go". Hopefully, it is aging gracefully for you. You didn't happen to enter it again, did you? It'd be interesting to see how it does with another year on it.


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## seth8530

I agree, that is why I will never enter their competition ever again unless I have a wine/mead that has won in another competition and I am only looking to get my name in the magazine. I will not send my wine off and pay money just for a score. I am more after feedback and constructive critz not an ego boost.

I have not tasted a bottle of the "port" in quite a while so I am interested to see how it is doing. Perhaps I will have my folks bring a case of it up in a week or two. I believe that the wine is a good concept, I feel that perhaps some adjustments might be possible to make it even better. Perhaps using honey instead of sugar and adding in some cranberry juice to the black currant to give it a little bit of a pucker factor.


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## joeswine

*Judges comments*

AT THE VERY LEAST THEY WERE *CONSISTENT* WITH YOUR PORT,ALWAYS REMEMBER JUDGING IS A MATTER OF PERCEPTION AND IN MOST CASES NOT ALL THE JUDGES ARE PROFESSIONAL,BY THE WAY *NEITHER ARE WE*,MY COFFEE PORT DIDN'T SCORE AS WELL AS IT SHOULD HAVE,THAT'S A FACT (IN MY OPPION) BUT THIS CONTEST ONLY REFLECTS THE JUDGES AT THAT TIME AND THEIR TASTE BUDS,THE TRUE TEST IS TO SPREAD YOUR WINE (THE SAME ONE) OVER A FEW CONTEST AND GET A CONSENSUS ,THAT WAY YOU CAN VIEW YOUR WINE THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE SEE IT,MAKE YOUR ADJUSTMENTS AND MOVE ON TO SOMETHING ELSE.......


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## seth8530

I agree, and I also accept that not every batch of wine that I will make will be great either. I respect the scores they gave, I just do not respect the lack of comments.

Not a bad idea on spreading your wine across multiple competitions to get a good consensus, I might try this with my mead that won 2nd at the MCI.


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## joeswine

*Comments*

I AGREE WITH YOU THOUGH ABOUT THE LACK OF COMMENTS OR YOU ACTUALLY COULDN'T READ THEM,SO WE MARCH ON ,RIGHT?


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## TinyPirate

seth8530 said:


> Rofl, get ready for the antithesis of what is awesome. Check out my post on the very end of page 13.




Ahh! Bummer! Well, if you like it and it is aging nicely, then I am sure you have a personal winner on your hands!


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## seth8530

joeswine said:


> I AGREE WITH YOU THOUGH ABOUT THE LACK OF COMMENTS OR YOU ACTUALLY COULDN'T READ THEM,SO WE MARCH ON ,RIGHT?



Yep, what else can we do? Live and learn.



TinyPirate said:


> Ahh! Bummer! Well, if you like it and it is aging nicely, then I am sure you have a personal winner on your hands!



I like it pretty well, I am still waiting to see what time will do for it so I have not given up all hope yet/.


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## marino

Hi everyone, 

Seth, your post has inspired me to try this. The only thing is, I am VERY NEW at this (have only made 3 kits) and am really most interested in ports. Do you all here think this is too ambitious for a newbie? I can get all the supplies at my LHBS so I'm excited. I'd like to try this in a 3 gallon batch since I have 3gal carboys. 

Would it improve any if I added some dry elderberries to the primary? I'd like to do this without sugar (use concentrate to back sweeten) if possible 

Do any of you here know of a place where I might find step by step instructions for a newbie like me? 

Thanks, everybody! I've been learning a lot here! 

My grandparents had a small vineyard in the Douro valley and made port every year. It would be great if I could taunt my grand-uncle with a small bottle in a few years! 

Marino


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## seth8530

Marino,

I do not think this is too ambitious if you do your homework before hand. Do you know what kind of port you plan on making? Fruit or grape based? Adding something like dry elderberries to the primary would not hurt. Also, perhaps using honey instead of sugar to bring the SG up prior to ferment for THIS "port" might have been a good idea.

As far a step by step, I would read this forum and formulate an action plan. Their are two main methods for making "ports" one is where you stepfeed the must with sugar till it quits then you back sweeten a bit and add spirit to bring the ABV up the rest of the way. The other way is the method where you start off with whatever your SG you choose to start with and then you add spirit until the wine is around %20 to stop the ferment.

The camp I lie in is where you ferment with whatever SG you start with (around 1.120 or higher if your fruit starts you there) and then add DECENT quality spirit to arrest the fermentation.

If you have any more specific questions feel free to ask or start a thread on it.


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## WVMountaineerJack

Dried elderberries makes everything better. I think I got one of your judges this year Seth, I got a meaty also, maybe oak in a fruit wine confused them  WVMJ


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## seth8530

Rofl, im glad I am not the only one! Which one of your wines got called meaty?


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## WVMountaineerJack

This years notes and last years notes are way off, previous years we had good reviews where we could actually see what they were talking about, but the last 2 years have changed some how, no idea why but the only critique we could see being real was maybe a bit much KM in one cider, we had blended several and hit it with a little KM before bottling, but meaty like a jerky treat is way off, cant wait to send them our capsicumel, probably dock it for having a pepper taste I am also curious why they had 4500 entries before but only 3100 this year, maybe others thought their reviews were way off?? Maybe the economy? Doubt it with winemakers. WVMJ


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## seth8530

I would not be surprised if their competition is losing popularity.


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## marino

Thanks, everyone. 

Seth, now I just have to go figure out what homework I need to get done. I only want to make 3 gallons so I guess I'll get a can and ask the guy at LHBS what he suggests and start homework from there, come back here and study your recipe. I'll be back! 

M


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## seth8530

Just FYI with a port I would recommend you make a min of a 6 gallon patch. Perhaps even 10 or 12. These guys take quite a long time to age so you want to have ample reward for your work.

I will give you HW if you are willing to do it. I would first read the whole beginners sectoin of the forum. Then I would also read these threads.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f137/whole-grape-port-44373/

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f137/any-experienced-port-makers-42453/

In these threads you will see arguments for multiple methods of making port.. Come back and tell me what you have in mind and perhaps we can talk it through over PM.


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## marino

Great! I've been reading the beginners' section but will return to it. I'll also read these other two and see what I can get from it. I'll PM you when I can figure out what is what. You've convinced me to make at least 6gal.

Thanks, Seth!


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## seth8530

Way to.go! Keep me in the loop!


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