# Crush day at Crushday's...



## crushday (Sep 1, 2021)

I decided to catalog the 2021 wine journey to North Central California from the South Sound in Seattle Metro. In order to get through Portland traffic in a timely fashion, I plan to leave at 3am on Thursday morning - arguably too early. But, with fires diverting flow on Interstate 5 - coupled with unknown construction slowdowns, restroom breaks (now that I’m over 50, I have the world’s smallest bladder) and the traditional stop at In-N-Out (Medford, OR) - I elected to error on the side of time allowance. I wanted to get to the area of the vineyard no later than 5pm. Without any hiccups, I should arrive in Roseville, CA by 3pm. Fingers crossed…. @NorCal and @4score - here I come.

BTW, crush day will be Saturday. It’s a solo venture to process 1 ton of grapes (0.5 of Cabernet Franc and 0.5 of Petite Sirah). Mrs. Crushday is going to a football game that day (taking my son and his wife). Montana Grizzlies (wife’s alma mater) are playing the Washington Huskies. As hopeful as I am, I know the Griz don’t have a chance. #gogriz


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## Kraffty (Sep 1, 2021)

Impressive planning for a grape trek, looking forward to keeping up with your progress.


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## NorCal (Sep 2, 2021)

Safe travels @crushday, you‘re a road warrior for sure! I think we have an agenda for tomorrow. We‘ll meet at the vineyard, drop bins and go look at the grapes. Looks like @4score and @Busabill are going to come over to my place where we can pop some corks in the winery/barn. I’ll have a pizza for us to eat. We will all have cab franc and other wines to try and swap. We won’t keep you out too late.


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## Cynewulf (Sep 2, 2021)

Safe travels, @crushday! I used to commute Camas, WA to Beaverton, OR and rush hour Portland traffic is wretched. Hope you were able to avoid it with the early start. Looking forward to hearing about y’all’s get together!


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## 4score (Sep 2, 2021)

NorCal said:


> Safe travels @crushday, you‘re a road warrior for sure! I think we have an agenda for tomorrow. We‘ll meet at the vineyard, drop bins and go look at the grapes. Looks like @4score and @Busabill are going to come over to my place where we can pop some corks in the winery/barn. I’ll have a pizza for us to eat. We will all have cab franc and other wines to try and swap. We won’t keep you out too late.


Looking forward to it!


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2021)

Update: I got on the road about 30 minutes late today. Reason being is that Mrs. Crushday wanted to share a cup of coffee with me before I left. Obviously, I felt obliged to accommodate. Those 30 minutes played no significant role in the trip overall and I was able to soar through Portland Metro with ease.

I made great time, aided by only making a few stops. Only one restroom break and one refill of the gas tank got me to Metro Sacramento by 2:30pm and to my hotel by 3pm.

I was able to squeeze in a 30 minute nap before returning a few phone calls to close out my normal work day before meeting up with @NorCal at the vineyard to drop off my macro bins.

Tonight was the most fun “wine” time I’ve ever experienced. I was able to share over 20 bottles of wine with @NorCal and @4score and a third winemaker named Bill (@Busabill) and, everyone contributed to the fare. Of course, we didn’t finish all opened bottles but the wines were all amazing and ranged between white, rose' and reds. It’s humbling to sit around a table with men of this caliber; winemakers of this quality and competence that far exceeds my own skill and knowledge. We had amazing wines. I wish you could have been there.

Sometimes, sitting behind our screens blinds us to the fact that the ones we interact with on this site have lives - hopes, dreams, goals and professions beyond what we know of them on WMT. Being exposed to an additional facet of another’s life is really sobering and causes me to delve deep into introspection. I feel extremely fortunate to have found the people on our forum.

We finished up the evening by mixing all the left over red wines, roughly 2.5 gallons, and bottling the 2021 Frankenstein Blend. I got three bottles. @4score predicted the wine will be wonderful. It's difficult to disagree with the prediction.

Tomorrow, I will begin my trek home to continue my wine journey. In the back of my truck will be 2000 pounds of grapes.

Looking forward to crush, maceration and pitching some yeast.

Here are a few pics from the day:

More to follow…


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## NorCal (Sep 3, 2021)

Thanks @crushday. Super fun and your wines were right there with the best. Not a bad wine was tasted. Some pics from @4score. The first being the road warrior @crushday.


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## Kraffty (Sep 3, 2021)

Boy I'm torn between where I'd rather be right now. With you guys at Norcal's Winery Retreat or Ibglowin in HI. Is my jealousy showing much?


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## 4score (Sep 3, 2021)

It was a blast! So much great wine and wine stories and @NorCal's Big Barn was a perfect spot. It was great to meet @crushday. Special moment was @NorCal pulling out a hidden award-winning 2015 wine of mine (Barbera) that I gave him many years ago that we all assumed was long gone. Taking this on my anniversary trip with my wife. She was as shocked as I was to receive this after we were sure the last bottle was consumed long ago. I was also so happy to taste @Busabill's Amador Zin from 2020. We switched our 2021 Barbera plans to these same Amador Zin grapes after learning the deer ate our Barbera. Bill wasn't sure about the Zin in previous discussions but what I tasted last night was absolutely fantastic! A nice spicey Zin, the exact flavors I was hoping for.


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## ibglowin (Sep 3, 2021)

Dang sooooooo jealous in so many ways! Beautiful fruit that will make some amazing wines I am sure!


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## NorCal (Sep 3, 2021)

Neatly gift wrapped, @crushday is on the road with a ton of California fruit to the Pacific Northwest. Safe travels my friend.


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## crushday (Sep 3, 2021)

Clos Du Lac - Nestled near the shores of Folsom Lake, this vineyard community is enough to make the most celebrated winemaker jealous. Picture, in your mind’s eye, a lush country club with residences lining each fairway and replace tightly manicured greens with rows and rows of head trained grapes. Do that and you begin to get a sense of this place. It’s awesome.

Headed home…. Thanks @NorCal


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## ibglowin (Sep 3, 2021)

Bellissimo! 




crushday said:


> Clos Du Lac - Nestled near the shores of Folsom Lake, this vineyard community is enough to make the most celebrated winemaker jealous. Picture, in your mind’s eye, a lush country club with residences lining each fairway and replace tightly manicured greens with rows and rows of head trained grapes. Do that and you begin to get a sense of this place. It’s awesome.
> 
> Headed home…. Thanks @NorCal
> 
> ...


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## Jay A (Sep 3, 2021)

OUTSTANDING! I see a refrigerated box truck in Crushday's future!


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

Home. Tomorrow the real work begins…


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 4, 2021)

crushday said:


> Clos Du Lac - Nestled near the shores of Folsom Lake, this vineyard community is enough to make the most celebrated winemaker jealous. Picture, in your mind’s eye, a lush country club with residences lining each fairway and replace tightly manicured greens with rows and rows of head trained grapes. Do that and you begin to get a sense of this place. It’s awesome.
> 
> Headed home…. Thanks @NorCal
> 
> ...



Looks like heaven on earth. Great looking fruit.


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## mainshipfred (Sep 4, 2021)

crushday said:


> Home. Tomorrow the real work begins…
> 
> View attachment 78387



I guess welcome home is in order. All I want to know is what percentage of your front tires actually stayed on the road.


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I guess welcome home is in order. All I want to know is what percentage of your front tires actually stayed on the road.


Fred - lol... @NorCal can attest that when those full bins were placed in the back of the truck it barley moved. It sunk only an inch. I was mildly concerned because although I've had more weight in the back of that truck, I've never had it sitting so far past the axel and riding on the tailgate. The truck was special ordered and built as a "heavy half" and beefed up towing capacity.

I set the cruise to 65 and averaged 22.1 MPG with that load, over 3 passes. I'm sure I could have made it home without topping up the tank but prudence caused me to stop at the California/Oregon border to get gas. It took 16 gallons. I have a 40 gallon tank.

The fruit fared well. Maximum daytime temp was 91 (Redmond, CA) and overnight we dipped to 48. I uncovered the bins when I got home and everything looked great albeit with light cast from a military grade flash light.

Agenda for the day:

Coffee (2 cups) - halfway there!
Set up
Sort and crush
Initial testing (pH, BRIX)
Clean up and put away


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## stickman (Sep 4, 2021)

I'm definitely jealous too, it sure looks like fun to me. It's nice to be able to share the experience with others; it feels like I'm making wine in a vacuum compared to what's going on here. @crushday Ok enough playing around, now you have some work to do!


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## Rocktop (Sep 4, 2021)

And thank you @crushday for sharing the story and photos it makes everybody’s day richer. Good luck with the crush, going to be fun to follow this one from beginning to end.


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

Today is crush day and it could not have gone better. I had the surprise of Mrs. Crushday joining the festivities. The football game she is attending is a night game and she has plenty of time to get to her seats. She was a big help!

I was able to get about 85 gallons of must from the Cab Franc and 105 gallons from the Petite Sirah. I’m very happy with the volume of the grapes. Both look and smell great.

I did run some initial tests on the must. Here are the results:

Brix: Cab Franc average: 27.5
pH: Cab Franc average: 4.07 (tartaric added)

Brix: Petite Sirah average: 26.5
pH: Petite Sirah average: 3.55 (not planning any tartaric additions)

Everything is cleaned up and drying. Maceration is underway and I’ll likely pitch yeast Sunday night or Monday morning.

I’ll be co-inocculating yeasts on both varieties with Prelude (thanks @4score) and Avante a couple days later (Tuesday or Wednesday). 

I’ll also be introducing CH16 to start MLF when the gravity is about 1.030, estimated next weekend.

I’m very happy with the results so far. The wines should be excellent!

Here are some pics…


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## ibglowin (Sep 4, 2021)

Nice set up!  



crushday said:


> Today is crush day and it could not have gone better. I had the surprise of Mrs. Crushday joining the festivities. The football game she is attending is a night game and she has plenty of time to get to her seats. She was a big help!
> 
> I was able to get about 85 gallons of must from the Cab Franc and 105 gallons from the Petite Sirah. I’m very happy with the volume of the grapes. Both look and smell great.
> 
> ...


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

I'm considering watering back both musts. The CF has a high Brix - 27.5. According to calculations, I would need to add 4 gallons (35 gallons of must) to drop it to 25. But, that's going to make the pH even higher.

The Petite Sirah has a Brix of 26.5. According to calculations, I would need to add 2.5 gallons (35 gallons of must) to drop it to 25. pH can likely handle this addition.

Any recomendations? I don't think I want the CF to be 17 ABV but I'm very interested in the potential concentration of flavors considering how low the juice/must ratio is.

I'm mostly OK leaving the PS as is but open to recommendations. 

Today is the day to make changes...

What would you do?


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## Kraffty (Sep 4, 2021)

Just thinking out loud here, I agree that the 17% feels too high but hate the thought of watering it down at all. Maybe split the difference and add just 1.5 or 2 gallons. Shouldn't affect your acidity much then. Looks awesome.


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## 4score (Sep 4, 2021)

I would water it back and use aciduated water.


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

Quick update: Ok, this is moving quickly...

I removed 2 gallons from each Cab Franc (two) 45 gallon fermentor because I needed to add 4 gallons of acidulated water to each (35 gallons of must). Adding that much water would take away precious headroom for the cap. Again, the Brix was 27.5 and I wanted more in the 24-25 range.

I added the removed 4 gallons to the 10 gallons I already had in a 25 gallon fermentor. I then added 1.5 acidulated water to the 25.

I also added 2.5 gallons acidulated water to each Petite Sirah (three) 45 gallon fermentors.

Earlier in the day I did sulfite to 50ppm.

Before the acidulated water rodeo started I noticed what appeared to be the beginning of a ferment. I checked the must temp and it was a balmy 72 degrees. I quickly pitched the Prelude. So, I guess I have an active ferment...did not expect that so quickly.


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## Gilmango (Sep 4, 2021)

I just wanted to thank @crushday and all of the Roseville crew for this super informative and inspiring thread. I'm new to wine making and still doing kits but this is certainly inspiring me to get off my butt and get to a pick in Contra Costa which usually happen at 6:30 a.m. (90 minutes away), even though I have no press I will just figure it out DIY style.


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

Gilmango said:


> I just wanted to thank @crushday and all of the Roseville crew for this super informative and inspiring thread. I'm new to wine making and still doing kits but this is certainly inspiring me to get off my butt and get to a pick in Contra Costa which usually happen at 6:30 a.m. (90 minutes away), even though I have no press I will just figure it out DIY style.


Gilmango, your words represent the intent of the string. So glad...

Depending on where you live, someone might have some equipment you could borrow or rent inexpensively. Either way, making wine from grapes is the best way to go. However, kits serve a great purpose and you'll always have enjoyable wine. Glad you're on here...


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

The football gods are smiling in Montana…. I said this on the first post of this string: “Mrs. Crushday is going to a football game that day (taking my son and his wife). Montana Grizzlies (wife’s alma mater) are playing the Washington Huskies. As hopeful as I am, I know the Griz don’t have a chance. #gogriz”

The Grizzlies won!! 13-7!! Montana hasn’t beat the Washington Huskies for 101 years. Today was the day…


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 4, 2021)

crushday said:


> Here are some pics…
> 
> View attachment 78396



Congratulations on your trucking adventure! I'm loving that chute for offloading grapes - much better than jumping up and down with buckets. 

(Not loving that pH "meter" though, I'm afraid. I would be nervous about making decisions about additions based on that...)


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## crushday (Sep 4, 2021)

BarrelMonkey said:


> (Not loving that pH "meter" though, I'm afraid. I would be nervous about making decisions about additions based on that...)


You can’t make a statement like without more context…. Please offer. I calibrated and tested. It’s a cheap pH meter, I know, and certainly you’d suggest something different. But, I’m assuming this one is going to be within a few 100ths…I’m open to the suggestion.


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## Gilmango (Sep 5, 2021)

crushday said:


> The football gods are smiling in Montana…. I said this on the first post of this string: “Mrs. Crushday is going to a football game that day (taking my son and his wife). Montana Grizzlies (wife’s alma mater) are playing the Washington Huskies. As hopeful as I am, I know the Griz don’t have a chance. #gogriz”
> 
> The Grizzlies won!! 13-7!! Montana hasn’t beat the Washington Huskies for 101 years. Today was the day…


And in three weekends U-Dub will somehow play better and beat my Cal Bears in Seattle. I'm trying a reverse jinx here but fear it to be true.


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 5, 2021)

crushday said:


> You can’t make a statement like without more context…. Please offer. I calibrated and tested. It’s a cheap pH meter, I know, and certainly you’d suggest something different. But, I’m assuming this one is going to be within a few 100ths…I’m open to the suggestion.



Sorry, you're right, I should have provided context. I posted in this thread about my experience with that same pH meter. (It looks exactly like yours, down to the color!) My initial reaction was that it performed surprisingly well, but it subsequently failed to calibrate correctly. I didn't post in that thread, but I gave it one final chance a week ago when I bought a new pH meter: I couldn't get it to register the (freshly made) pH 6.86 buffer, it insisted on calibrating it as pH 4.00.

If you can calibrate it against 2 buffers (4.00 and 6.86) and those standards still measure the same (+/- a few 100ths) after your juice/must measurement, then maybe you can believe it - but based on my experience I think there's a danger you'll turn it on one day and find that it's useless. 

As an aside, even if you have a high quality lab instrument, grape must is a somewhat hostile environment; lots of fine particles that run the risk of clogging your junctions. Professional labs centrifuge samples before testing, and while most of us don't have a centrifuge lying around it might be worth filtering samples through, eg a kitchen strainer (and maybe even, eg a coffee filter) before immersing your probe in them.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 5, 2021)

Congrats on a successful crush and another travel adventure. Love that setup and would be curious to see more detail on how the must is getting from the crusher to the Brutes. Looks like you've got a pump going, but was curious - are they going into a preliminary catch bin before getting to the Brute?

Glad you decided to water back - at least on the CF. PS was borderline, but probably needed it as well. I think you'll be glad you did in the long run. (reminds me I need to double check my supply of tartaric)


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## Johnd (Sep 5, 2021)

Looks like a nice haul of some great fruit! Like to see how others set up to do larger volumes of grape processing. I like the flow of your setup, sort in the barrel chute, into the C/D, but from there, I’m confused. With the C/D sitting on the ground with no bin under it, how’s the must getting up into the fermenters? I see a white corrugated hose which I suspect has a must pump on one end connected to a bin placed under the C/D discharge, but don’t see it in any pics, is that what you did?

FWIW, I’d have watered the CF back a smidge, but not the PS, I like em big and bold. My MLB always goes inn with the arrival of the first cap, like it to get a strong foot hold in the alcohol free environment, especially when my ultimate ABV is at or above the high end tolerance of the MLB.

Looking forward to following your progress!!

EDIT: LOL!! Looks like @Boatboy24 posted the same question while I was typing…….


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## mainshipfred (Sep 5, 2021)

@crushday has all the cool equipment. Looks to me the must pump is an integral part of the C/D.


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## crushday (Sep 5, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> @crushday has all the cool equipment. Looks to me the must pump is an integral part of the C/D.


Yep, Fred’s right…. Introducing the Zambelli Gamma 15 - she slices, she dices…And a bugger to clean!

A few pics… (no need to point out the hazard of the plug. I’ll fix it…)


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## crushday (Sep 5, 2021)

@Johnd - The chute looks a bit more ghetto than I was intending. I meant to cut the bottom and the sides of the drum for the chute LONG before I needed - but, alas…. The bolts I bought were too short as I didn’t accommodate for how the two ends would sit together. So, Irwin wins the day. I do intend on bolting the middle together with stainless bolts, washers and wingers for easy removal. Next time you see that chute she’ll be perfect.


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## crushday (Sep 5, 2021)

First punch - check.

The PS is inky and awesome and all three fermentors have equal, well formed caps. None of the three batches of CF have a cap although the same yeast was pitched last night. Actually, I’m surprised by this. Sans the actual must, all things are equal. Same size fermentors, same external environment…. 

Can anyone explain why the PS took off and the CF is lagging?

A few pics…

First the cap of the PS. Looking good and smells amazing.





Next, the CF - untouched since last night. No meaningful cap. Hmmm…





The PS after punch. Color extraction is already great.


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## crushday (Sep 5, 2021)

BarrelMonkey said:


> If you can calibrate it against 2 buffers (4.00 and 6.86) and those standards still measure the same (+/- a few 100ths) after your juice/must measurement, then maybe you can believe it - but based on my experience I think there's a danger you'll turn it on one day and find that it's useless.


I believe I can only calibrate it to 4.00, which as previously stated, I did. Between tests, the first few times, I did immerse into the buffer solution and it read 4.00 both times.

Sorry to hear about your experience. And, I assume you replaced the unit. Can you tell me about your replacement?


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 5, 2021)

crushday said:


> I believe I can only calibrate it to 4.00, which as previously stated, I did. Between tests, the first few times, I did immerse into the buffer solution and it read 4.00 both times.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your experience. And, I assume you replaced the unit. Can you tell me about your replacement?



I didn't bother to replace it, if you mean replace it with another of the same kind. I bought it because I was intrigued but skeptical about the viability of a $10 pH tester, and thought $10 was worth it to tinker around with it and do a few experiments. I'm pretty sure the amazon.com return window has expired now.

After exhaustively overanalyzing the options (as is my wont), I did buy a Milwaukee MW102 for my 'real' pH meter. Although I haven't yet used it on actual wine/juice samples, my first impressions are favorable.

BTW amidst all the pictures I forgot to say that your fruit looks great! Nice clean pick by the look of it too.


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## Jay A (Sep 5, 2021)

Looks great Crushday. I've had similar spontaneous ferments take off while coming out of cold soaks. Identical temps, different grapes, one starts to kick before the other. Much like yourself I added starter ASAP. I always SO2 @ crush, I guess those wild yeast cell can"t wait to get to work?

I estimate ABV as Brix X .54 which puts you around 15%, pretty hot!! I would have watered back as well. 

I picked up very similar destemmer in need of some TLC over the winter. Can't wait to try it out. Are you pleased with performance? Looks like great destemming, do many whole berries make it past pump??

Great Thread & thanks for the updates.


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## Rocktop (Sep 5, 2021)

Morning crushday, as this thread has the potential to be epic, and the gold standard for new members wanting to make red wine from grapes would you be willing flush out a little more details?:
- why did you inoculate with 2 yeast?
- why did you decide to co-inoculate mlb while primary fermenting
- what pH and TA were you targeting
- you already spoke to target ABV - and why watering back
- can you give primary fermenting temps?

sorry I know that is a lot to ask of a busy guy but you great at providing details and very humble in your explanation of the ups and downs. Either way I’m excited to be following this thread. I have called my grape supplier twice since your post….I’m getting antsy for grapes! Haha.

have a great day and txs for sharing.
RT


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## crushday (Sep 5, 2021)

Rocktop said:


> Would you be willing flush out a little more details?



- why did you inoculate with 2 yeast? The short answer is: to try something new. But, because that answer is unsatisfactory, I read about using two yeasts as part of a combined ferment over last winter. As you know, native yeast is everywhere and must left alone will ferment on its own. Most winemakers want a little more control over the complexity and wine profile than what a native yeast can/will produce. Some winemakers have let the native ferment begin and then take it over with another yeast (Avante or 1118) inoculated into the must after a few to several days to make sure the job gets completed. I was considering this but continued to research. My reading lead me to Chris Hansen’s Prelude. @4score has used Prelude with notable success and his wines are amazing. First hand experience talking here…. So, I decided to give it a try and @4score very generously provided me with Prelude and I already have Avante on hand as it’s my usual yeast. If you decide to try Prelude, just know that it only will ferment to 9 ABV so another yeast has to be introduced BEFORE you get to 9 ABV otherwise you risk a sluggish or even a stuck fermentation.

- why did you decide to co-inoculate mlb while primary fermenting? To be clear, I have not added the CH16 yet but will in a few days. The reason I do this is because I’m a lemming and that’s what others do. Seriously, that’s the reason. It’s worked well and I’ve always had a complete MLF. Many winemakers don’t introduce MLF until after press and it becomes a true “second fermentation”. I’m sure their reasons are many but mostly because of a commonly held belief that the bacteria and the yeast compete for nutrients - therefore, keep them separate stages. Another important factoid about nutrients: The very first time I used CH16, I had no idea bacteria competed for nutrients and to add something into the must (Opti Malo or Acti-ML). I didn’t add anything and the MLF completed with no problem. So, I’ve never added any MLF nutrients and at this point don’t plan to.

- what pH and TA were you targeting? Of course, each variety is different and others will have differing answers. I’d like the CF to be around 3.8 and the PS 3.6. TA? I’m not too worried about TA.

- you already spoke to target ABV - and why watering back? I watered back because my target ABV is more in the mid 14 range. The original Brix would have 17+ (CF) and 16+ (PS) finished ABV. Another thing to note is the Brix usually climbs a bit overnight as it’s macerating so my Brix would likely be higher today than yesterday.

- can you give primary fermenting temps? My temps yesterday in all six fermentors was 72 to 74. I pitched the yeast because that’s too high for maceration and left alone spoilage is a high probability and the native boys would wake up. I’ll keep the ferment around 80 throughout.

Let me know if you have other questions. Glad to help.


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## crushday (Sep 5, 2021)

Jay A said:


> Are you pleased with performance? Looks like great destemming, do many whole berries make it past pump?


Yes, very pleased with the performance. Nothing but grapes in the must - very clean. And, upon a quick visual, no whole berries.

When I purchased this unit a few months ago, I was looking at a gravity D/C. The guys at winemakersdepot talked me into this one indicating I would be more pleased with the final must. They described that the grapes are not crushed but go through a series of impellers. So, I guess this is best described as a destemmer/slicer - lol…


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## Jay A (Sep 5, 2021)

Fantastic. I had a steel gravity D/C for years that was showing its age. Even with rollers spaced out process was aggressive on stems & grapes, I ordered repair parts through wine makers depot for recently acquired destemmer, they were extremely helpful. Thanks.


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## crushday (Sep 5, 2021)

Punch #2. CF is beginning to form a cap but only on the sides of the fermentors. That is so strange to me. Juxtaposed to the PS which has a cap so thick I can barely get through it. Amazing…

Added Ch16 but I believe it to be bad. Normally, it’s white/ghoulish gray in color. From the picture you can see that it’s a caramel color. I wasn’t home when it was delivered so I had my wife put it in the freezer. I’m going to have to call Lodi Wine Labs on Tuesday and get a new shipment. Hopefully, they’ll just replace it.

For you who have used CH16 - doesn’t the color seem off?


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## cmason1957 (Sep 5, 2021)

I belive that is bad. Send them that picture. I think it has been cooked.


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## Snafflebit (Sep 5, 2021)

crushday said:


> For you who have used CH16 - doesn’t the color seem off?



that does not look typical. It always looks like white instant coffee when I use it

Edit: actually. I think that Christoph Hansen 16 had a tan tinge last year. Hmmm maybe it is okay


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## Johnd (Sep 6, 2021)

crushday said:


> @Johnd - The shoot looks a bit more ghetto than I was intending. I meant to cut the bottom and the sides of the drum for the shoot LONG before I needed - but, alas…. The bolts I bought were too short as I didn’t accommodate for how the two ends would sit together. So, Irwin wins the day. I do intend on bolting the middle together with stainless bolts, washers and wingers for easy removal. Next time you see that shoot she’ll be perfect.


I was definitely not bashing the chute, in fact, I fancied it a pretty solid idea for customizing the length and slope to fit your exact configuration, and with food grade materials. The chute definitely has my seal of approval, not sure I'd change anything on it unless there was a problem, adding bolts and wing nuts only adds time to disassemble. 

I was more interested in how you were moving the must, didn't realize that you had the integral must pump, and it sounds like it works like a charm. As for the cleaning of the unit, I feel your pain, I have the Zambelli stainless model, just without the must pump. I've found that you can pressure wash on it for hours and just keep finding little pockets of grape debris and never really get those suckers out of there. Last crush, I hosed it down well, then removed the housings with a just a few screws, and was able to really get it cleaned out well. That's my process for cleaning now. Just pay attention to the order that it comes apart, it has to go back together in the same order, but it's pretty intuitive.


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Johnd said:


> I was definitely not bashing the chute


John, I knew you were not bashing the chute. And, I can't say for sure why I addressed you in that post other than I was just talking to a buddy. Sorry you felt "called out" - not at all my intention.

On the C/D - I'll probably take it apart today just to make sure it's clean. I don't want it getting moldy inside and then pull it out next year for another round...


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## Johnd (Sep 6, 2021)

crushday said:


> John, I knew you were not bashing the chute. And, I can't say for sure why I addressed you in that post other than I was just talking to a buddy. Sorry you felt "called out" - not at all my intention.
> 
> On the C/D - I'll probably take it apart today just to make sure it's clean. I don't want it getting moldy inside and then pull it out next year for another round...


LOL, didn't feel called out at all !!


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Post crush day 2: Everything is active. The CF took an extra day and a half to present a cap but we have one now. I wonder if it has more to do with SO2 management and the wine's unique chemistry. My original intention was to macerate for 24 hours after dosing with Kmeta (50ppm) but the must temp was too warm so I pitched the yeast several hours after. The Petite Sirah was completely unaffected by that decision. The Cab Franc - well...

I did order some new CH16 but from MoreWine. I LOVE working with Lodi Wine Labs (current CH16 purchased from them) and have no issue at all with them. I appreciate they call me after every order to confirm and ask me questions about what I'm doing and if I have any questions. Stellar... However, the one delivering the packages is WAY sketch. He shows up in a rickety old van, unmarked, no uniform and not timely. 

I can get VP41 locally but I have never used it before and I don't want to introduce any more variants. Under normal circumstances, CH16 is solid and works every time.

I did get a little whiff of H2S on PS #1 during punch which is surprising to me considering I did add Fermaid O. Something to watch...

I think I'll pitch Avante tomorrow. That will be two full days (PS) after pitching the Prelude and I would expect the Avante to take a few days to get established. I'll likely pitch Avante on the CF on Wednesday.

All is well.


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> I think that Christoph Hansen 16 had a tan tinge last year. Hmmm maybe it is okay


You have my attention. Can you think of a way to testing to make sure? I don't want to unnecessarily add more and the stuff isn't cheap. I did reorder but can always save that for next time.


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## cmason1957 (Sep 6, 2021)

Easy way to test, do a check now for malic acid content, pitch what you have. I'd rehydrate it with some proper chemicals, but that's just me. After 3 or 4 weeks, check the malic acid again. If no change, you got an answer.


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> Easy way to test, do a check now for malic acid content, pitch what you have. I'd rehydrate it with some proper chemicals, but that's just me. After 3 or 4 weeks, check the malic acid again. If no change, you got an answer.


That's a grand idea. I could run a Chrom test now and see if I'm picking up any Lactic. It stands to reason that if any CH16 I've already added is working Lactic would begin to show up. I think I'd want to do that before adding the Avante since it reportedly converts 30% of the Malic to Lactic.

I'll run that test this evening. Should have results tomorrow night.


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 6, 2021)

crushday said:


> Added Ch16 but I believe it to be bad.



Why are you pitching ML bugs during your primary fermentation? I thought one typically waited until yeast fermentation was over before doing ML?


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

BarrelMonkey said:


> Why are you pitching ML bugs during your primary fermentation? I thought one typically waited until yeast fermentation was over before doing ML?


Co-inoculation is a common practice. Most of the wines I make are high ABV (15+) and I want the bacteria to get a solid hold.

Some winemakers co-inoculate after first cap. I typically wait a couple days after the first cap. This is the first time I moved at first cap. As previously stated, I don't use bacteria nutrients and 100% of the time get a completed MLF.


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Working on a new post primary fermentation wine transfer system today. This part of the winemaking process has been the most frustrating to me. I’ve used varying strategies and self-priming pumps in a couple different sizes. Ultimately they’ve all worked but I’ve been spittin' mad on many occasions. The pumps clogged halfway through the job and I end up having to take the pump apart and remove skins and seeds even though I use a GHP wrapped in a muslin bag and screen filter the press wine. Debris seems to find a way into the pump and under my skin. Grrr…

Here is my new system. Of course I won’t know its effacicy for a couple more weeks but I think it’s going to work well. You can see from the last picture how I _had_ been pumping free run and press wine.

I will continue to use the 5 gallon stainless brew pot. Today I installed a valve high enough that I think I’ll get a quick settling of the gross lees. And, will be using the Blichmann Riptide. Since it’s not self priming I had to think of a way to get the pump to prime without me involved. You can see from the water test, this works perfectly. Time will tell. There is some criticism that the Riptide is hard on the wine but I have a hard time seeing how this has a lasting effect especially compared to other common practices. A degassing whip attached to a drill comes to mind.

I built the carriage and installed the pump and the handle system. I think the 1/2” pipe will work and it’s perfectly balanced.







This is an example of past presses. That little pump is a workhorse but clogs easily and stops pumping. BTW, this is last years Petit Verdot.


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## Jay A (Sep 6, 2021)

Very nice, beats the bucket brigade!


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## Jay A (Sep 6, 2021)

Strictly post primary use or rack & return as well?


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Jay A said:


> Strictly post primary use or rack & return as well?


Great question - plan right now is only post primary transfers. I’ll continue using the self priming diaphragm pump for other cleaner tranfers. My bigger one is variable but clogs up too.


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## Maheesh (Sep 6, 2021)

What yeast are you using?


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Maheesh said:


> What yeast are you using?


I'm using dual yeast for both of these wines. Initial yeast is Prelude (Chr. Hansen) and will finish the job with Avante (Renaissance). The Prelude is only effective to 9 ABV and isn't designed as a total yeast solution. Avante is a workhorse and has been my go to for three seasons. It's solid.

To be clear: Pitch the Prelude after crush. 2-3 days later, pitch the Avante. Trying something different.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 6, 2021)

Sir. You are absolutely _crushing_ it over there! The new toys are so badass. Fresh from road trippin thru wine country, swapping bottles & talkin shop w/ the OG’s, back home w/ a macrobin in tow ready to christen the gear!— that’s gotta be quite the feeling. Riding high on dopamine and making it look easy! It’s not ‘work’ if ya love it. And you most certainly do. Congrats on everything. Keep the pics & updates coming.


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## Rocktop (Sep 6, 2021)

Hi crushday, some more questions.
Primary ferment in the brutes and then into...?
Sorry I didn't see it before, will this be a blend?
Will it be barrel aged?

Txs.

RT


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> Keep the pics & updates coming.



I will! Makes me wish we were all neighbors. Imagine the parties... Epic.


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## Snafflebit (Sep 6, 2021)

I would hate to give you bad advice but I think the ML culture is okay. The worst case is you have to do it again after primary ferment.


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

@Rocktop

-Primary ferment in the brutes and then into...? 120L Speidel fermentors (19" lid) to complete MLF and then into Speidel storage tanks for about a year or until I have a few barrels open.

-Will this be a blend? Going for 100% varietal (PS) and 97% CF/3% Petit Verdot (made this last year and love it). Ultimately, there will be blends also but I need to see what I have to work with.

Will it be barrel aged? Yes, typically. Only exception was last years Pinot Noir. I just bulk aged it in plastic with some oak spirals hoping it would be fruit forward. It's bottled now and good after a 3 hour decant.


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> I would hate to give you bad advice but I think the ML culture is okay. The worst case is you have to do it again after primary ferment.


I'm going to test for evidence of lactic. I thought I would do it tonight but I'm going to wait. I'm not pitching the Avante tomorrow. I checked Brix and I'm still at 24 on the PS.


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2021)

Everything is on cruise control right now. Punching down every 12 hours. Color extraction is amazing. Aroma is wonderful. Fumes…dizzying. 

Here's a pic of the Cab Franc during punch this morning:


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## crushday (Sep 8, 2021)

Here's an update and explanation from Lodi Wine Labs on the bacteria (see post 47 in this string for the backstory and picture). This is verbatim the email I received back from Cameron:

_"Good morning George!

I reached out to Gusmer and they assured us that those yeast are viable and will be fit to use. So good news for ya!

*Cameron Crouch*
Sales Manager and Environmental Liaison
Lodi Wine Labs"_


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## Jay A (Sep 8, 2021)

Looking great at punch down! I'm sure they are crazy busy at LWL & Gusmer as well. Hopefully "thinking" MLB but responded yeast. Chromotography will tell the tale. Keep updates coming!!


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## Snafflebit (Sep 9, 2021)

crushday said:


> Here's an update and explanation from Lodi Wine Labs on the bacteria (see post 47 in this string for the backstory and picture). This is verbatim the email I received back from Cameron:
> 
> _"Good morning George!
> 
> ...



 I kind of recall having similar reservations about the CH16 last year.


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## stickman (Sep 9, 2021)

I've used CH16 for many years and haven't encountered the darker color yet, however, the 2016 CHR Hansen technical data sheet (pulled from the Gusmer site) indicates an appearance of "off white to slightly brown". It's helpful that the manufacturer indicates the potential color variation; it may be related to something simple like the particular type of broth the cells were suspended in right before the drying process.


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## SLM (Sep 10, 2021)

This is a great thread. Thanks for sharing.


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## crushday (Sep 13, 2021)

Quick update: Cap is beginning to weaken and fermentation is slowing. Out of the six fermentors going right now, I did a gravity check on one: Cab Franc #3 - it read 1.006. Although I’ll do a full gravity check on Tuesday or Wednesday I’m hoping to keep this at bay until Friday when I’ll have more time to press.


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## Kraffty (Sep 13, 2021)

Maybe chill them a bit for a couple of days to slow things to a crawl?


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## crushday (Sep 15, 2021)

Update: Just punched the cap for the last time on this ferment. At this point, calling it a cap is an overstatement. The activity has been slowing for the last three days and it’s ready. I don’t even feel compelled to take a gravity reading to confirm. Tomorrow is the day.

I’ve been planning on waiting until Friday - and there’s enough CO2 joining the atmosphere to justify that decision. However, tomorrow we have a 0% chance of rain. Friday-Sunday - well, the screenshot speaks for its self. So, T-Minus 18 hours. Can’t press outside in the rain…

I’ll be sure to provide photos throughout the press tomorrow.


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## Kraffty (Sep 15, 2021)

Looks like the NorthWest Rain Gods made that a pretty easy decision.


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## crushday (Sep 16, 2021)

Today was both a battle and a walk in the park. First, the saunter…

After getting everything set up and sanitized, I started filling the bladder press. I‘ve found it’s easiest to just take 35 trips to the fermentor with a gallon sized pitcher. Most of the wine “free runs” through a strainer into the 5 gallon stainless stock pot and then pumped into the secondary fermentors (120L Speidel). It's typical to replace the strainer about every 5 gallons. I have two and alternate. I use a hose and spray the clogged strainer and put it back into rotation. My new pump worked like a champ. It never clogged and I was able to work through five fermentors within a few hours. You can see the setup in the pictures below. I was able to get approximately 62 gallons of Cab Franc (gravity is .996) and 45 gallons of Petite Sirah (gravity .995). I kept the press at one bar hoping for a gentle press.

Now, the battle…. Halfway through the first fermentor (Petite Sirah), I heard a crash behind me in the garage. During set up I noticed that one of the fermentors was listing. I literally got down on my hands and knees to see why. One of the five wheels was turned inward and wasn’t providing any support on that side. Keep in mind the food grade plastic cans are wide mouthed and tapered to the bottom. So in my case, top heavy and listing on a slopped concrete floor (All the clues were there, I should have known!). To my horror, it actually tipped completely over and I lost all 40 gallons of must. That was the crash I heard filling the bladder press. I made my way in to the garage.

I was stunned, dumbfounded and simply went back to the press knowing there was nothing that could be done except clean it all upon the completion of the press.

Gone. It’s gone. Down the drain in the floor. My unintended and inadvertent contribution to the fruit fly circle of life.

Now, some pictures - in order - to represent the day….


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## Ajmassa (Sep 17, 2021)

This one’s for the fallen homies who have left us far too soon. RIP. 
A sad day. Especially when so young. Hate to see it. 
glad to see your takin it on the chin at least.


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## Rocktop (Sep 17, 2021)

Crushday, I am so very sorry. That sucks.

RT


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## crushday (Sep 17, 2021)

Rocktop said:


> Crushday, I am so very sorry. That sucks.
> 
> RT


That’s extremely kind. Yes, it does suck. I’m still in shock! I don’t know how that even happened. Of course, my garage floor is graded toward the drain which played a role in the debacle. I’ve learned many lessons in life. Unfortunately, like this one, I’ve learned them the hard way. I should have tried to reposition it to make it more level. But, didn’t…


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## Rocktop (Sep 17, 2021)

Well I predicted this thread would be epic, and you would be a humble story teller.....
2 years from now, that first sip will taste a little finer, and your guests will be awe as you tell the story and adventure, or what was the 2021 vintage!


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## David Violante (Sep 17, 2021)

Oh my… holy moly I don’t know what I would have done… So sorry…

… and thank you for letting us in on your journeys, they are just inspiring…


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 17, 2021)

Oh my! I think I'd still be in the corner, lying in the fetal position, crying. I guess the bright side is you still have 107 gallons of other wine to work with.


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## Kraffty (Sep 17, 2021)

You have my sympathy and I'm so impressed at your positive and realistic attitude. I really wanted to say thanks for the reminder of the care we need to take with every step we take in this fairly expensive and time intensive hobby. I've toyed with the idea of resting my brutes on dollys but my winery floor is a kind of cobblestone and your story has convinced my to keep stuff as low and flat as possible. I Agree with Rocktop, it'll be an epic and fun story to tell.....years from now....many years....


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## crushday (Sep 17, 2021)

Kraffty said:


> I've toyed with the idea of resting my brutes on dollys but my winery floor is a kind of cobblestone and your story has convinced my to keep stuff as low and flat as possible.


Mike, I believe you're making the right decision. When those Brutes are full they're heavy and awkward and unstable, really. The shape doesn't help. In fact, after yesterday, I'm going to retire all my Brutes. I've already been replacing them with stainless which is easier to clean, doesn't gouge and has less opportunity for critters. 



Kraffty said:


> I Agree with Rocktop, it'll be an epic and fun story to tell.....years from now....many years....


I woke up today at 3am thinking about it. I'm so puzzled as to how that wheel got turned as I'm the only one with access to that space. Near I can tell, it was that way the whole time and I didn't notice. In a million years that would probably never happen again (meaning that whole thing dumping over). As you've inferred, it's not very fun right now. And, I didn't get it completely cleaned up. Eggplant colored concrete is officially in vogue! But, I have plenty of wine left (less for blending, however) and it will be part of the story every time I open or give away that wine. But it will be "many years"...

I'm good.


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## SLM (Sep 17, 2021)

That is sad. And kind of scary. Even on a level floor it would seem that if the wheels aren't positioned right a full brute may be too heavy for the dolly.


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## Jay A (Sep 17, 2021)

UGH!!! Crush, there are no words! I admire your positivity, could have been the whole brute i guess. Much like AJ, I'll be raising a glass in honor of your 40 gallons of must this evening.

Keep the updates coming!


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## CDrew (Sep 17, 2021)

Dang George, that hurts! But you'll have plenty more wine to drown your sorrows. I knew there was a reason to keep the brutes 1/2 full. I always ferment on furniture dollies just to make it easier to move around and will watch the wheels carefully.

Your mess reminds me of the time I spilled a 5 gallon pail of gear oil on my garage floor. I think I used up the northern california supply of kitty litter cleaning it up and had to endure the stench for a year. Your floor at least should smell pretty good.


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## Snafflebit (Sep 17, 2021)

Is that dolly under the Brute a special made dolly for trash cans? Ugh, heartbreak! Well, you have taught many of us a valuable lesson.


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## crushday (Sep 17, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> Is that dolly under the Brute a special made dolly for trash cans? Ugh, heartbreak! Well, you have taught many of us a valuable lesson.


Yes, the dolly is specifically made by Brute for Brutes. Of course I believe this to be anomalous but still stings a bit. Yes, a valuable lesson!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 17, 2021)

It’s all about the spin technique!
Plus those gray Home Depot brutes I used to use- they seem slightly thinner than other cans. My 44gal non-brute Brute is noticeably thicker, more rigid—- and the smooth white winemaking brutes appear more rigid as well.

So much weight & resistance pulling handles. But when spinning the can around it helps to move much easier. The dolly and brute spin but the wine kinda stays in place. 

another factor is the dollys are universal for any sized brute. Smaller brutes the dolly gives a nice wide base. Thel arger brutes hang over the sides —-So
not only top heavy & less rigid sidewalls but also weeble wobbles from the pinpoint center of gravity when pulling. The spin technique bypasses all that and let’s the wheels to fall in line very easily. 

I built a large square dolly for the fermentor but went back to the brute-specific dollies. It’s all about that spin technique!


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## crushday (Sep 17, 2021)

@Ajmassa - profound advice. Thanks. Have a wonderful weekend!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 17, 2021)

crushday said:


> @Ajmassa - profound advice. Thanks. Have a wonderful weekend!


I keep mine on a throw rug in the basement. So I was never able to pull a full can easily. Especially the 44’s. I started spinning to shift around out of necessity. 

Ive never looked for it but I bet there’s dollies better suited for the larger brutes rather than the universal one which works down to even 10gal size. I blame the narrow base for this. It’s a balancing nightmare and not surprisedthis happened on a 44gal brute (or55?) with the one size fits all dolly 

and u have yourself a nice wknd as well— despite that rainy forecast!


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## 4score (Sep 17, 2021)

So sorry George. I can hardly imagine the horror of hearing that happen then seeing the floor! Sounds like your recovery is proceeding along well. We'll have to trade wine so I can experience this EPIC wine one day!


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## wood1954 (Sep 17, 2021)

In the grand scheme of things in this life that was one horrible event. I feel like you I hate learning things the hard way but it seems to be a very effective way to learn.


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## JBP (Sep 17, 2021)

Such a tough loss. Experience is not a kind teacher. Effective, perhaps. But not kind.

This thread, however, is rich for all of us. Thanks.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 17, 2021)

Heartbreaking, George.

Of course, you already know what these folks would have done....


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## crushday (Sep 17, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Heartbreaking, George.
> 
> Of course, you already know what these folks would have done....



Dang it. A missed opportunity. Olde world wine at it’s finest.


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## Joe B. (Sep 18, 2021)

I've enjoyed following your journey this season and to read about the loss of some of the fruits of your labor just hurts. I use the same brutes and dollies as you and will be extra careful from now on.


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## Gilmango (Sep 18, 2021)

crushday said:


> Gilmango, your words represent the intent of the string. So glad...
> 
> Depending on where you live, someone might have some equipment you could borrow or rent inexpensively. Either way, making wine from grapes is the best way to go. However, kits serve a great purpose and you'll always have enjoyable wine. Glad you're on here...


Just want to report back that you did in fact inspire me, I woke up at 4:30 this morning to get to a pick in Brentwood (Contra Costa County, California -- the far eastern edge of the SF Bay Area), by 6:30, picked 163# of Mourvedre and used the crusher destemmer on site, brought home about 16 gallons of must. About to figure out my yeast and yeast nutrient situation. I will have to DIY a press in a week or so. Totally winging it with a real lack of equipment beyond what I have for beer brewing and kit wine making, but what could possibly go wrong? - Gilman


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## crushday (Sep 18, 2021)

First taste today:

Petite Sirah - flavorful but tannins are bullying my palate right now and will loose strength over time. Color great.

Cabernet Franc - flavorful, smooth and displaying future approachability - maybe I'll just bottle it tomorrow? lol...

Here are some really lame pictures:

Petite Sirah -





Cab Franc -


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## Spencerthebuilder (Sep 18, 2021)

My sympathies Crush, that outcome simply blows. Looking at the picture, IMO it was just a matter of time. In simplest terms, the base was far too narrow. Then the wheels eliminated any aid from friction. think of riding a unicycle on ice... For stability, the inturned wheels must be outboard of the vertical plane of the top of the load (filled Brute). Remove the wheels and build bigger dollies. Better yet, use HArbor freight wheel barrow replacement wheels for 2 of the 4 wheels


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## ibglowin (Sep 18, 2021)

Never underestimate the power of that "special sauce"........ LOL



crushday said:


> Dang it. A missed opportunity. Olde world wine at it’s finest.


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## Kraffty (Sep 18, 2021)

The PS looks awesome already, going to be spectacular, I'm assuming the franc will look as good after is settles out a bit.


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## crushday (Sep 22, 2021)

Just racked for first transfer since press. Everything looking and smelling great! I did pull 1 gallon of PS into the house so I could see if I have MLF - looking for tiny bubbles. It’s warmer in the house. My garage is only 64 degrees right now which is in the range of the CH16 albeit on the low end.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 22, 2021)

crushday said:


> Just racked for first transfer since press. Everything looking and smelling great! I did pull 1 gallon of PS into the house so I could see if I have MLF - looking for tiny bubbles. It’s warmer in the house. My garage is only 64 degrees right now which is in the range of the CH16 albeit on the low end.



You need to put on a little Don Ho on repeat for those MLB bugs.


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## crushday (Sep 22, 2021)

@Boatboy24 - lol and I‘m following the instructions, laughing the whole time. Let’s hope it works!!


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## crushday (Sep 23, 2021)

Quick update - after 24 hours after racking and bringing 1 gallon of wine into the house AND not seeing any tiny bubbles - even though I added Don Ho to the equation (thanks @Boatboy24) - I decided to re-inoculate CH16 on all batches. An hour later, I’m beginning to see those tiny bubbles. 

I’m now convinced the previous packages of Ch16 were bad. 

I really only have experience with CH16 - but can get VP41 locally. Is there a major difference between these two?


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## Cap Puncher (Sep 24, 2021)

crushday said:


> I really only have experience with CH16 - but can get VP41 locally. Is there a major difference between these two?


I like vp41, it is very solid and tolerates high alcohol. It doesn’t give much butter flavor if I remember correctly. it co-inoculates easy as welll too


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## CDrew (Sep 24, 2021)

crushday said:


> I really only have experience with CH16 - but can get VP41 locally. Is there a major difference between these two?



Good question. I've not ever had a problem with CH16, but I pick it up from Lodi Wine Labs who is very particular about storage and temperature control, making sure you have cold storage for transport. I've wanted to try VP41. Just because it is highly regarded here. Please let me know what you find out. The real advantage I see to CH16 is that it tolerates high alcohol wine and, it needs no hydration step. Just toss into the wine and stand back.


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## heatherd (Sep 24, 2021)

crushday said:


> Today was both a battle and a walk in the park. First, the saunter…
> 
> After getting everything set up and sanitized, I started filling the bladder press. I‘ve found it’s easiest to just take 35 trips to the fermentor with a gallon sized pitcher. Most of the wine “free runs” through a strainer into the 5 gallon stainless stock pot and then pumped into the secondary fermentors (120L Speidel). It's typical to replace the strainer about every 5 gallons. I have two and alternate. I use a hose and spray the clogged strainer and put it back into rotation. My new pump worked like a champ. It never clogged and I was able to work through five fermentors within a few hours. You can see the setup in the pictures below. I was able to get approximately 62 gallons of Cab Franc (gravity is .996) and 45 gallons of Petite Sirah (gravity .995). I kept the press at one bar hoping for a gentle press.
> 
> ...


Ah that sucks!


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## heatherd (Sep 24, 2021)

crushday said:


> Quick update - after 24 hours after racking and bringing 1 gallon of wine into the house AND not seeing any tiny bubbles - even though I added Don Ho to the equation (thanks @Boatboy24) - I decided to re-inoculate CH16 on all batches. An hour later, I’m beginning to see those tiny bubbles.
> 
> I’m now convinced the previous packages of Ch16 were bad.
> 
> I really only have experience with CH16 - but can get VP41 locally. Is there a major difference between these two?


VP41 is really reliable.


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## Jay A (Sep 24, 2021)

crushday said:


> Quick update - after 24 hours after racking and bringing 1 gallon of wine into the house AND not seeing any tiny bubbles - even though I added Don Ho to the equation (thanks @Boatboy24) - I decided to re-inoculate CH16 on all batches. An hour later, I’m beginning to see those tiny bubbles.
> 
> I’m now convinced the previous packages of Ch16 were bad.
> 
> I really only have experience with CH16 - but can get VP41 locally. Is there a major difference between these two?


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 24, 2021)

crushday said:


> Quick update - after 24 hours after racking and bringing 1 gallon of wine into the house AND not seeing any tiny bubbles - even though I added Don Ho to the equation (thanks @Boatboy24) - I decided to re-inoculate CH16 on all batches. An hour later, I’m beginning to see those tiny bubbles.
> 
> I’m now convinced the previous packages of Ch16 were bad.
> 
> I really only have experience with CH16 - but can get VP41 locally. Is there a major difference between these two?



If the Don Ho approach didn't work, there was most certainly something wrong with those little bugs.  Glad it is working out in the end.

I've used both CH16 and VP41, but my go-to is VP41. Both are good. CH16 has a slightly higher alcohol tolerance, while the VP41 can tolerate a lower pH. I like that VP41 tolerates SO2 as high as 60ppm - a plus for those of us whose grapes are trucked across the country on/under those sulfite blankets.


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## crushday (Oct 1, 2021)

Well, it would appear that the CH16 I added on September 5 was sound. It’s clear I have a completed MLF. Rack tomorrow to mid-term storage and wait for a barrel. Estimated port to barrel is May 2022 for both CDL Cab Franc and CDL Petite Sirah. This was a fun, fulfilling and educational journey! Other than loosing all that must a few weeks ago, this couldn’t have gone better.


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## crushday (Oct 3, 2021)

Sight and color test today - looks amazing and tastes awesome.


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## stickman (Oct 3, 2021)

Looks really nice!


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 3, 2021)

crushday said:


> Sight and color test today - looks amazing and tastes awesome.View attachment 79436
> View attachment 79437



Looking good!


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## crushday (Oct 24, 2021)

Tasting notes today:

Cab Franc - medium acidity and fresh cracked black pepper, clove fighting for the stage with strawberry making a late appearance. Faint nose that will definitely develop in the months to come.

Petite Sirah - Muscular. Robust tannins leaves my tongue clamoring for a 20oz Desani. Taste is great, black fruit for sure. Going to be really nice especially when the tannins chain up and become softer. Time is this ones best friend.

Maybe because it's Sunday and raining like a water can spout, I like the Cab Franc best today. It's smooth and I'm enjoying it as I warm my feet by the fire.


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## winemaker81 (Oct 25, 2021)

@crushday, taste your wines monthly and record your notes. The variations I experienced during my winestix experiment was astounding (well, to me, anyway). I'd love to see what results you get.


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