# Elderberry Wine



## jgmann67 (Feb 29, 2020)

My sister messaged me yesterday and asked about making wine from elderberries. She has them all over her back yard. 

Anyone have a primo recipe to share??


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## cmason1957 (Feb 29, 2020)

There used to be a member on here named something like wvmountainjack. He grew lots of elderberries and had a website with several recipes. I have made it and have a recipe, first time I made it was wonderful, next few times not so great.

Beware of the dreaded green goo, vegetable oil, then Oxyclean to get rid of it. I always thought maybe lining the fermenter with a trash bag might be the way to go, but SWMBO overruled that idea.


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## Johnd (Feb 29, 2020)

Here’s an old WMT thread that may help, but don’t think his website is still around.... https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/pure-elderberry-wine.41048/


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## salcoco (Feb 29, 2020)

https://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp i believe Jack Keller has some


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## jgmann67 (Feb 29, 2020)

cmason1957 said:


> There used to be a member on here named something like wvmountainjack. He grew lots of elderberries and had a website with several recipes. I have made it and have a recipe, first time I made it was wonderful, next few times not so great.
> 
> Beware of the dreaded green goo, vegetable oil, then Oxyclean to get rid of it. I always thought maybe lining the fermenter with a trash bag might be the way to go, but SWMBO overruled that idea.



I might just use a fermenting bucket that I don’t mind parting with at the end.


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 29, 2020)

jgmann67 said:


> elderberry, , have a primo recipe to share??


I grow elderberry too. My feeling is that it is high on tannic, low on aromatic, low acid and fair on color stability. As a result I am mixing it with Concord grape; high acid/TA, good aromatic, good color stability. 
Last years batch:
. . . . . . Concord, , 11.9kg
Calcium carbonate 14.3 gm
. . . . . Elderberry, , 8.5kg
. . . . . . . sugar , , , 3kg
. .yeast nutrient
note! NO added water !

This year, after comparing mine with another club member, I back sweetened to 1.001. Favorite so far is 2017 which was sweetened to around 1.010. Will see how this does in wine contest next month.

As Craig notes green gunk. It comes off easily with Pam kitchen spray (ie lecithin emulsifier in oil)


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## winemaker81 (Mar 1, 2020)

I made elderberry wine from fresh fruit in 1986 and 1987. My notes from those batches are here:

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/1986-elderberry/

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/1987-elderberry/

Back then I recorded in a notebook and didn't write a lot of details, but at least you can see my proportions.


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## JustJoe (Mar 2, 2020)

I use elderberries in my wine but I mix them with other fruit. I use half elderberries and half either chokecherries or wild grapes. IMHO the elderberries make a great improvement in almost any fruit wine. The cherry wine turns out more like a good grape wine with strong cherry overtones rather than the thin pale wine we often see coming from cherries.


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## Hokapsig (Mar 29, 2020)

we made our elderberry from juice, and after stabilizing, we let it sit on 90% cocoa chocolate bars. One bar per 6 to 8 gal. After 4 months, it takes on a flavor of a grape tootsie pop center. It sells very well for us, but we sweeten ours to around 1.040 (that's what our customers demand).


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## robert81650 (Apr 10, 2020)

Your customers are probably right......Hate dry wine....sweetness gives it more flavor...............


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## winemanden (Apr 10, 2020)

JustJoe said:


> I use elderberries in my wine but I mix them with other fruit. I use half elderberries and half either chokecherries or wild grapes. IMHO the elderberries make a great improvement in almost any fruit wine. The cherry wine turns out more like a good grape wine with strong cherry overtones rather than the thin pale wine we often see coming from cherries.


I may be wrong, memory's not as good these days, I'm sure I read it somewhere that in 1800's Portugal (port) anyone caught adding Elderberries got the death penalty.


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## wood1954 (Jun 19, 2020)

I made a batch last fall as I didn’t have enough fresh I ordered a pound of dried berries and it turned out very nice, however I should have added some acid it’s too flat but flavor is good. I think I’ll try it again this year. Just joe good idea with the wild grapes.


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## hounddawg (Jun 19, 2020)

elderberry mixes very well,,,
but on my elderberry wines i use 5lb to the gal fresh but i freeze them first, and a good elderberry needs 8 to 10 years of aging, i've got more blooms this year then i've had in the last 30 to 40 years, muscadines seem to be doing very well too.. good lord willing, i should have way over a hundred pounds or better, since i got 2 carboys aging with blackberry/elderberry, all i get this year after everything and bottled they will disappear for many years, 
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jun 19, 2020)

Hokapsig said:


> we made our elderberry from juice, and after stabilizing, we let it sit on 90% cocoa chocolate bars. One bar per 6 to 8 gal. After 4 months, it takes on a flavor of a grape tootsie pop center. It sells very well for us, but we sweeten ours to around 1.040 (that's what our customers demand).


yup all my elderberry wines i bottle at FSG 1.040
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jun 19, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I made elderberry wine from fresh fruit in 1986 and 1987. My notes from those batches are here:
> 1986 Elderberry – Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site
> 
> 1987 Elderberry – Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site
> ...


get you a fruit picker basket put it on a extendable paint pole, i see you went 10 lbs to 4 gallon water, i use 5 lbs elderberry per gallon of water,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jun 19, 2020)

robert81650 said:


> Your customers are probably right......Hate dry wine....sweetness gives it more flavor...............


Amen swweeetttt
Dawg


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## wood1954 (Jun 19, 2020)

Blackberry elderberry sounds great and is so healthy


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## hounddawg (Jun 19, 2020)

wood1954 said:


> Blackberry elderberry sounds great and is so healthy


extremely healthy, artrius , diabetes, heart problems,an so much more, i was looking through a plant remedies, and to my surprise, i found out dandelions are very good for health, every country wine i make has medicinal purposes, dandelions helps boost your immune system,,,
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Jun 21, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> get you a fruit picker basket put it on a extendable paint pole, i see you went 10 lbs to 4 gallon water, i use 5 lbs elderberry per gallon of water


At that time (over 30 years ago) the recommendation was 2 to 2.5 lbs of fruit per gallon. Since then I use 4 to 5 lbs of fruit, of pretty much any type, which matches your recipe. Elderberry is strong enough flavored that a smaller quantity of fruit will work, but I agree that more fruit will make a better wine. For less strongly flavored fruits, it's a necessity.


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## hounddawg (Jun 23, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> At that time (over 30 years ago) the recommendation was 2 to 2.5 lbs of fruit per gallon. Since then I use 4 to 5 lbs of fruit, of pretty much any type, which matches your recipe. Elderberry is strong enough flavored that a smaller quantity of fruit will work, but I agree that more fruit will make a better wine. For less strongly flavored fruits, it's a necessity.


yep cept for apple, banana, pear, and other light fruits,, them i use 12lbs per gallon


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## winemaker81 (Jun 23, 2020)

Last time I made apple wine, I ran a bushel through a juicer, fermenting only the juice. Then I made a second run off the very moist pulp. If I have capacity this fall, I'll make another batch as the both the apple and apple 2nd run were good.


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## akron (Jul 11, 2020)

Long time ago I made a red elderberry wine. It took a while but several years it turned out great. I only made one gallon and wish I had more. Anyone do this with Red Elderberry very often? Results?


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## winemaker81 (Jul 11, 2020)

akron said:


> Long time ago I made a red elderberry wine. It took a while but several years it turned out great. I only made one gallon and wish I had more. Anyone do this with Red Elderberry very often? Results?


I had to search on this -- I have never heard of red elderberries.

*This site* says the ripe, deseeded, cooked red elderberry is edible, but notes that other sources state both are edible _and_ not edible. In reading about blue elderberry, I seem to recall other sites saying essentially the same thing.

It is noted that every part of the plant _except_ the berries is poisonous, and that the unripe berries may be poisonous.

From what I read on several sites, it appears that red elderberry is as safe as blue for wine making. However, I suggest you do some searching on the topic before doing so.

And make sure you are using only very ripe berries. One trick with berry wine is to pick today's ripe fruit and freeze it until you'rd ready to start the wine.

One last thing:

*This site* makes a statement that I find oddly amusing: "The dark blue/purple berries can be eaten when completely ripe but are slightly fatal in their unripe state."

I have no idea what "slightly fatal" means ... but I I'm not going to experiment to find out!


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## hounddawg (Jul 11, 2020)

akron said:


> Long time ago I made a red elderberry wine. It took awhile but several years it turned out great. I only made one gallon and wish I had more. Anyone do this with Red Elderberry very often? Results?


i got red elderberries all over 40 acres of hill woods pasture N.E. Arkansas, these will kill you, now i ain't a clue about european elderberries, but in the states a redelder/red elderberry fruit hangs like a grape cluster, poison strychnine, both in the fruit and bark, a black elderberry also has a minute amount, you can take little ball of fruit eat it and you'll taste it whew but it won't kill you but for some reason you can make jam, syrup, wine and all's good, i have heard of white and blue from europe i think that are safe, on elderberries make sure the fruit looks like a umbrella, that's safe, hang like a grape cluster = poison
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jul 11, 2020)

i got around 40 black elderberry plants/canes, a group of canes makes a bush, i hope to make 24 to 30 gallons this year
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jul 11, 2020)

akron said:


> Long time ago I made a red elderberry wine. It took a while but several years it turned out great. I only made one gallon and wish I had more. Anyone do this with Red Elderberry very often? Results?


now black elderberry makes a red wine, but takes years before it is , so good, 
so if your wanting a red wine from elderberry make sure the fruit cluster is umbrella shaped, any elderberry hanging like a small grape cluster are poison. 
again black elderberry makes a killer good red wine but takes years, me i like 8 to 10 years, but 4,5,6 are drinkable ,, 
Dawg


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## akron (Jul 12, 2020)

This is where latin names are helpful. To be clear, the species I’m talking about is Sambucus Racemosa. In reading some sites it is iffy to consume although cooked, boiled seems ok. I wonder if fermentation is similar to cooking? Anyway, I’m alive from drinking it. I bottled a dozen 375 ml bottles and drank one a year to try it out. I still have one left. (unlike me to be so patient!)
I may pass on making more of this...as I recall there was a terrible mess and scum from these berries.
Winemaker81..I never heard of “partially fatal”. Sorta like “sorta pregnant?”


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## hounddawg (Jul 12, 2020)

akron said:


> This is where latin names are helpful. To be clear, the species I’m talking about is Sambucus Racemosa. In reading some sites it is iffy to consume although cooked, boiled seems ok. I wonder if fermentation is similar to cooking? Anyway, I’m alive from drinking it. I bottled a dozen 375 ml bottles and drank one a yeayr to try it out. I still have one left. (unlike me to be so patient!)
> I may pass on making more of this...as I recall there was a terrible mess and scum from these berries.
> Winemaker81..I never heard of “partially fatal”. Sorta like “sorta pregnant?”


they hang like a grape cluster? like i said outta arkansas i no clue, but all elderberry in usa carries different amounts of strychnine, and yes on the blacks wine. cooking and jams and syrups are all good, but you want to get fancy with latin names , just PM me, with your address and i'll send you more red elderberries, for novel uses only than you can every use, will be more the happy to send you many pounds but only for novel uses only,
Dawg
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jul 12, 2020)

i looked em up. them are not native to arkansas, totally different then our red elderberry, seem the have a red that don/t kill. but ours in arkansas, will put a end to you, no bird, deer, or any other animal will not eat our redelders, as for fancy latin names , i guess my great grandma never bothered reading any books since both her and my grandma were full blood cherokee, north star tribe of the cherokee nation...
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jul 12, 2020)

akron said:


> This is where latin names are helpful. To be clear, the species I’m talking about is Sambucus Racemosa. In reading some sites it is iffy to consume although cooked, boiled seems ok. I wonder if fermentation is similar to cooking? Anyway, I’m alive from drinking it. I bottled a dozen 375 ml bottles and drank one a year to try it out. I still have one left. (unlike me to be so patient!)
> I may pass on making more of this...as I recall there was a terrible mess and scum from these berries.
> Winemaker81..I never heard of “partially fatal”. Sorta like “sorta pregnant?”


i see no reason to pass them are not the same that grows here, 
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Jul 12, 2020)

akron said:


> This is where latin names are helpful. To be clear, the species I’m talking about is Sambucus Racemosa. In reading some sites it is iffy to consume although cooked, boiled seems ok. I wonder if fermentation is similar to cooking?


Making wine from elderberry must have the same result as cooking, else there'd be an awful lot of dead people.

My mom made elderberry pie once, but it was so full of seeds that it was unpleasant to eat -- way to crunchy. Probably not a bad thing in retrospect, as the seeds are supposedly not good to eat.

I have an attachment for a KitchenAid mixer that removes seeds -- if I had access to elderberries, I'd use it. I did some research and it appears elderberries grow in the North Carolina (USA) mountains, probably 5 hours drive from me.



akron said:


> Winemaker81..I never heard of “partially fatal”. Sorta like “sorta pregnant?”


I was thinking exactly the same thing when I read it!


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## winemanden (Jul 12, 2020)

Just for info. The elderberry we have in the UK is Sambucus Niger, black or purple-black. Different to the ones you have in N. America. Is it any better or poorer, I can't say, but made properly it makes a very good wine after it's aged. One difference from from the N. Amican elderberry is that we don't get the dreaded green goo.

Never had elder pie, but have had elder jam, very nice it was. Just bought some Rhubarb jam from M&S and one of the ingredients is concentrated elderberry juice.


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## hounddawg (Jul 12, 2020)

winemanden said:


> Just for info. The elderberry we have in the UK is Sambucus Niger, black or purple-black. Different to the ones you have in N. America. Is it any better or poorer, I can't say, but made properly it makes a very good wine after it's aged. One difference from from the N. Amican elderberry is that we don't get the dreaded green goo.
> 
> Never had elder pie, but have had elder jam, very nice it was. Just bought some Rhubarb jam from M&S and one of the ingredients is concentrated elderberry juice.


according to most internet searches says sambucus racemosa is a european variant, only one site that i found claimed it was American, but the rest said grows great here, same with blue and white and a different type of black, all mine are native to arkansas, i was extremely surprised that there was a red eatable , the ones in arkansas (red) are very high content of strychnine, but all elderberries have low levels of strychnine, but cooked, fermented syrup, jam all become benign, except for the red elders in my local, at times i have boiled red elder fruit, bark and leaves, down to straight strychnine, and keep rats out of all my sheds, but sambucus racemosa, fruit don't hang like a grape cluster, best rule of thumb, if birds, deer don't eat it, then it is best left alone,
Dawg


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## winemanden (Jul 12, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> according to most internet searches says sambucus racemosa is a european variant, only one site that i found claimed it was American, but the rest said grows great here, same with blue and white and a different type of black, all mine are native to arkansas, i was extremely surprised that there was a red eatable , the ones in arkansas (red) are very high content of strychnine, but all elderberries have low levels of strychnine, but cooked, fermented syrup, jam all become benign, except for the red elders in my local, at times i have boiled red elder fruit, bark and leaves, down to straight strychnine, and keep rats out of all my sheds, but sambucus racemosa, fruit don't hang like a grape cluster, best rule of thumb, if birds, deer don't eat it, then it is best left alone,
> Dawg


We've got a TV antenna at the side of our house. When there are purple black droppings on the path below, I know the Elderberries are ripe and ready for picking.


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## hounddawg (Jul 12, 2020)

winemanden said:


> We've got a TV antenna at the side of our house. When there are purple black droppings on the path below, I know the Elderberries are ripe and ready for picking.


really, dang mine the flowers just left and they are just starting to make little green fruit, just checked them all this morning, if i dont hit them as each cluster ripens the birds leave me zero,,,
Dawg


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## winemanden (Jul 13, 2020)

Didn't mean to say that the elders are ripe, same as you Dawg, they've not long finished flowering. they won't  be ready until end of August. Depends on the weather. When we get the purple crap, then we'll know.


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## hounddawg (Jul 13, 2020)

winemanden said:


> Didn't mean to say that the elders are ripe, same as you Dawg, they've not long finished flowering. they won't be ready until end of August. Depends on the weather. When we get the purple crap, then we'll know.


whew i was like dang mine are way behind,, lol ,,
Dawg


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## NoQuarter (Jul 13, 2020)

Its the seeds in the American red elderberries that are toxic. Other parts, leaves bark, even little stems on fruit clusters are toxic on all elder bushes.
I have made jelly with red elderberries. MUST BE NO SEEDS. De-seeding is hard, (cant even crush the seeds) so not worth the risk.
I also grow chaya and cassava, both toxic. even morels are toxic till cooked. It's all in the preparation.


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## winemaker81 (Jul 15, 2020)

NoQuarter said:


> MUST BE NO SEEDS. De-seeding is hard, (cant even crush the seeds) so not worth the risk.


I'm wondering if the KitchenAid de-seeding attachment crushes the seeds. It doesn't matter to me, as I don't have access to fresh elderberries of any sort, but for others it may be of interest.


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## hounddawg (Jul 15, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I'm wondering if the KitchenAid de-seeding attachment crushes the seeds. It doesn't matter to me, as I don't have access to fresh elderberries of any sort, but for others it may be of interest.


using my AOL from Steve i filter racking, ever degassing even when bottling, now i use polypropylene and nevery paper filters , the poly does not infer off flavors, on the post i've read paper seems to infer a soapy taste now and then

Dawg


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## hounddawg (Jul 15, 2020)

NoQuarter said:


> Its the seeds in the American red elderberries that are toxic. Other parts, leaves bark, even little stems on fruit clusters are toxic on all elder bushes.
> I have made jelly with red elderberries. MUST BE NO SEEDS. De-seeding is hard, (cant even crush the seeds) so not worth the risk.
> I also grow chaya and cassava, both toxic. even morels are toxic till cooked. It's all in the preparation.


the european red elders have little red balls of fruit, these in arkansas are more of a dry red husk, and yes all elders carry strychnine, but at different levels, if i can figure out my smarter than me smart phone i'll post pictures latter today after the heat drops some,,
Dawg


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## NoQuarter (Jul 15, 2020)

Well, I always thought these were american red elderberries around here but was never sure. leaves look the same, flower spikes do point more up till berries weigh them down. Clusters are smaller.
Like i said, too risky as I am older now. i do make black elderberry wine every couple of years. i grow my own, too many snakes this time of year in woods. Adams is the type i have, found after planting they need another variety to produce but they have had berries every year. Must cross with wild ones. In primary just throw berries in bag and crush. NO STEMS THOUGH. Takes a few years of aging to get really good though.


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## hounddawg (Jul 15, 2020)

NoQuarter said:


> Well, I always thought these were american red elderberries around here but was never sure. leaves look the same, flower spikes do point more up till berries weigh them down. Clusters are smaller.
> Like i said, too risky as I am older now. i do make black elderberry wine every couple of years. i grow my own, too many nnsnakes this time of year in woods. Adams is the type i have, found after planting they need another variety to produce but they have had berries every year. Must cross with wild ones. In primary just throw berries in bag and crush. NO STEMS THOUGH. Takes a few years of aging to get really good though.


, them adams look good but i'm in to deep to change, i hope to get 2 or 4, 6 gal carboys to bulk age, i got a couple old 5 gal stainless beer kegs, i've been thinking about having some tri clamp fittings welded on them, and use them to also bulk age with, they got a plate and rubber washer to seal them up with and since they are skinny and tall i could get quite a few into the wine rooms closet , outta sight outta mind,. down the highways i've seen more then i could use, not the canes,, just the berries,, everytime mine get 6 to 7 years old i get weak, but if i triple my bulk aging on elderberry, i might just get some as fine as silk going down,,,
Dawg


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