# Too Much Oak



## fishonline (Jan 10, 2012)

Hello everyone! I'm new to your form and new to wine making. I just finished de-gassing and racking my first batch of Chardonnay last night. I made a 6 gallon batch using 2 Alexander's Pinot Chardonanny concentrate. I used about 4 oz of French Oak chips in the primary and secondary and the oak was in the wine for a total of about 6 weeks before racking off last night. My concern is after tasting a sample of wine it has a terribly over-powering flavor and smell of oak. And the color of the wine is dark like oak. Did I ruin the wine or does this go away after bulk aging? Is there anything I can use to try and remove this flavor and smell? Being new to wine making I am not sure how much I should expect the wine to change after bulk aging and bottling. It would have to change a great deal before it would ever be drinkable. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Tim


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## robie (Jan 10, 2012)

Welcome to the forum.

4 oz. is not that much oak. Are you sure it is oak that you taste and smell?

Oak will naturally back off a little after the wine is bottled. Just won't back off a lot, though.

Maybe you could make another batch and blend them together to tone down the oak; that's about all you can do.


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## Geronimo (Jan 10, 2012)

If it changed color a lot, that's WAY too much. I doubt that blending is an option unless you make several batches the same size without oak.

For what it's worth I don't oak whites at all because they're flavor is much more subtle and I fear the oak will stand out. The heaviest oaked red kits only come with 2-4 ounces of oak. From what you're saying you either used 4 ounces total, or _4 ounces each_ in primary and secondary.

You might have to decide if it's worth proceeding.


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## fishonline (Jan 10, 2012)

I added around 4oz total, 2 in the primary and 2 in the secondary. I also had added about 1/3 cup of the oaky water that I boiled the oak chips with into the primary. These were the directions I was given by my local wine shop. But after asking him today he said that he hadn't actually tried this method himself. I told him that I like a oaky Chard like Toasted Head or Jlohr so that's what he told me to do. I'm not 100 percent sure if it's all oak that I am smelling or just the newness of the wine as I have never made wine before. But I can tell you that a little sample is over powering.. Like to the point that I can still taste it right now sitting at my office desk. Eeehhh! It's nothing close to a toasty Chard that I was hoping for. Not sure if I should wait it out or dump and start over as I'm not sure how wine should taste after it's 2nd racking into the secondary.


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## robie (Jan 10, 2012)

Geronimo said:


> I doubt that blending is an option unless you make several batches the same size without oak.



You doubt blending is an option? Blending to tone it down is the whole idea. And it all depends on just how over-oaked it is. Blending it with a same-sized kit will half the oak intensity.

I seriously doubt it can be THAT over-oaked with only 4 oz. of oak for only 6 weeks in 6 gals of wine, even if it is a chard (white).

That fermentation oak likely was spent in the first week or so and the other in less than 6 weeks.


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## robie (Jan 10, 2012)

1/3 cup of oaky water? How much oak was boiled to get the water? That could be a lot.

Still, I just wonder if it's oak you are tasting. Let the wine set for another month or so after clearing and taste it again.

I recommend next time to add about half the oak and no oaky water to the fermentation phase. After it clears, you can taste it and if it needs more oak, add 2 oz; wait two weeks and taste it. Take it out when it is just about right or maybe just slightly tasting over-oaked. When it just tastes over-oaked because the oakiness will always back off just a little. Remember, this is a Chard and not a heavy red.


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## fishonline (Jan 10, 2012)

Ya the water was dark and had a strong oak smell to it.. The water actually smelled better than the wine does at this point! My mistake.. Thanks for your help. I will give it another month and rack it again and give it another try. So much for quitting my day job!


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## robie (Jan 10, 2012)

You are the first person in history to have made this mistake.

Now, if you believe that, have I got a few deals for you!!!

We have all made our share of "learning experiences", so don't be hard on yourself.


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## Wade E (Jan 10, 2012)

To me 4 ozs of oak to a 6 gallon batch of a white wine is about dble what I would use but Im also not to fond of oaked whites that much. Chard is 1 exception but I would have only done 2 ounces myself. I do believe blending is your only option besides times as oak will meld into the wine and blend in much better with time.


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## Geronimo (Jan 10, 2012)

> If it changed color a lot, that's WAY too much. I doubt that blending is an option unless you make several batches the same size without oak.





> You doubt blending is an option? Blending to tone it down is the whole idea



I said that I doubt blending was an option if he used way too much, unless he made several batches.

Bye guys


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## Lurker (Jan 13, 2012)

I never heard of boiling oak. Am I the only one?


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## robie (Jan 13, 2012)

Lurker said:


> I never heard of boiling oak. Am I the only one?



That is a way to quickly extract the oak flavor I guess. Sounds like it could produce some harsh flavors; sort of like leaving a tea bag in the water too long causes the tea to taste bitter.

There is a little trick you can do with this boiled liquid.
Boiling the oak and sipping the resulting liquid, then taking a taste of your wine - will give you an idea of how your wine would taste if it had no oak in it at all.

The heavy oak in the liquid will over-power your taste buds, so when you immediately taste the wine, you won't be able to taste its oak.

You can do the same sort of comparative tasting with alcohol (half vodka, half water mixture), sugar (if your wine is sweet), and tannins.


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## fishonline (Jan 13, 2012)

Hi again, I read online in a couple of places that injecting non-fat powdered milk as a fining agent will help remove the over oaking and darker color. Has anyone experimented with this?


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## robie (Jan 13, 2012)

I haven't, but here is a document on fining agents. Mayve it will shed some light.
http://www.brsquared.org/wine/Articles/fining.htm

Do a search on milk


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## fishonline (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks for the arcticle, this is what it says: Casein
Casein is the major milk protein, with a positive charge and a molecular weight of approximately 375,000. (1 litre of milk contains about 30 grams of casein and 10-15 grams of albumin.) Casein adsorbs negatively charged particles as it settles.

Casein is most commonly used to decolour white wines, though it does provide aromatic stripping as well. It is usually used in white wines and sherries to improve clarity, as well as being particularly helpful in reducing browning, bitterness (especially when due to excessive skin contact), and oak character. Less clean, older and darker coloured whites benefit greatly from its use.


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## robie (Jan 13, 2012)

Sounds like it might help you. You have little to loose trying it. Just don't over do it by adding too much. be sure to rack it off when the instructions say.

I ordered some Casein a couple of days ago for another reason.


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## fishonline (Jan 13, 2012)

I might give it a whirl.. We'll see.. Lesson learned on oak! Thanks for all your help!


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## robie (Jan 13, 2012)

Just remember several have reminded you that the oakiness will back off a little all on its own, just maybe not as much as you need it backed off.

If you have another wine drinking friend, maybe you need an objective opinion about how over-oaked the wine is. I loose my objectivity about oak rather quickly, so I have a friend taste it and let me know. Even professional wine makers have consultants come in to taste and give objective opinion.


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## REDBOATNY (Jan 13, 2012)

The oak chips that i have used in the past say to boil and drain before using. I assumed it wast to sterilize them. I discard the water and add only the chips, with good results.


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