# Trying to decide which vines to grow



## hanfordhollowvineyar (Oct 18, 2017)

I have a small vineyard I am planting. At this point there will be about 60 vines. I've already planted 7 Marquette and 7 Frontenac Gris. I live in upstate NY at around 1700 feet in the Catskills. I'm wondering if I should stay with those two varieties and just plant half of one and half of the other? I have heard that Frontenac Gris is very high acid and difficult to make a good wine with. Should I plant more Marquette than Frontenac? Are there other cold weather reds or whites I should put into the mix?
Also where are the best values to be had for ordering cold hearty vines? 
Thanks


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## salcoco (Oct 18, 2017)

visit Double A vineyards on the web. they are located near Rochester NY and have extensive data on which vines would grow in your area.


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## hanfordhollowvineyar (Oct 18, 2017)

Thanks. I've used them to buy my 14 vines. But I was looking for more particular advice. Also I found Double A to have fairly expensive prices compared to other places.


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## grapeman (Oct 18, 2017)

Double A Vineyards has very reasonable prices when buying larger quantities. They can be combined to obtain the better pricing. Since you are getting 60 vines you could get 50 vine pricing which is $3 to 4 per vine. Stick to zone 4 or 5 vines. Don't just look at hardiness zones, but also their susceptibility to late freezes. Marquette is known to break bud early and get growing well along only to be frozen easily by late spring frosts. I have a number of friends in the Saratoga/Albany/Glens Falls area that lose their main crop of Marquette quite often. Petite Pearl might be better for that since it grows a bit later. Also could try some of the newer Plocher varieties such as Crimson Pearl. Any of the Frontenac varieties will grow, but they are challenging and need a very warm summer to get acceptable acid levels without sweetening. I have good luck with Leon Millot which is hardy enough for you and is fairly early ripening and if you let the brix get up to about 24 the acids get much better. It has great color and intense black cherry flavors. As it ripens the seeds give the wine a nice nutty smoky flavor.


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## wfournier (Oct 19, 2017)

I spent a lot of time agonizing over this same question last year. We ended up planting marquette, Petite Pearl, Verona, La Crescent and Itasca. So far Planted this spring) itasca has been the most vigorous and sounds like there is a lot of promise for the wine.

I would try to order as many vines from one source as possible to get the best pricing (for me the was NE Vine Supply), if you only buy a couple vines yes they are expensive but once you hit about 50 the price goes down dramatically (and to echo grapeman you can mix and match varieties for the discounts).


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## BigH (Oct 19, 2017)

My advice is to mix in some other varieties. It gives you diversity and will hedge against diseases or weather that can wipe out an entire variety. On top of that, 30 vines that all ripen together may be a lot for a hobbyist to harvest and process all at once. I would consider planting an early ripening white and a red that will ripen later than Marquette. 

In my area, i would do something like this. You would want to tailor this to your region and what you like to drink: 

*Brianna* : early ripening white that is harvested at around 18 brix
*Marquette*
*Petite Pearl* : will usually harvest after Marquette and hopefully before the Front Gris)
*Frontenac Gris*

That would be 15 vines each. I would try to work in two more varieties to get that down to 10 vines each. Keep in mind, that 10 vines of Marquette will fill about 8 5 gallon buckets with grape clusters at harvest (on a GDC). You don't need to plan for that just yet, but it is on the horizon. 

For what it is worth, this is my lineup and the date that I harvested this year (central Iowa). I have 8 or 9 vines each for a total of 86 vines in the entire vineyard. Not too far from what you are planning

*Whites:*

Brianna : Aug 10 (picked too early by 1/2 week)
Edelweiss: Aug 16
La Crescent: Aug 17
La Crosse: Aug 31
Frontenac Blanc : Sep 5

*Reds*

St Croix : Aug 25
Marquette : Sep 2
Frontenac : Sep 9
Petite Pearl : Sep 12
Marechal Foch Sep 14 (might be ripping this guy out in favor of another Tom Plocher variety)

H


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## CTDrew (Oct 20, 2017)

As others have said, your best bet may just be to try many different varieties and have the patience to wait them out and see how they perform. I think of my hobby vineyards as ever evolving so when a variety has performed poorly for me year in and year out, I remove it and try another and don't feel bad about it. 

I live a bit south of your area but I visit Hudson-Chatham in Ghent, NY once or twice a year which isn't that far from you, perhaps? They make some nice wines from both Catawba and Diamond and they tell me that they perform well for them. The more you visit around and taste what wineries near you are doing with the grapes the better the handle you'll have on variety choice as at the end of the day if you don't like the wine the grape will yield, it doesn't really matter how well it performs for you in the vineyard.


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## shrewsbury (Oct 20, 2017)

I live in zone 6B.

I think it should be all about what your short, mid, and long term plans are. If you are growing just for you and yours, then grow the grape that makes the type of wine you like.

I like sweet wines, and I love ice wine. My goal is to try to make some decent sweet and sparkling wines, and then go for Ice Wine making when I am brave and experienced enough.

I have so far only planted Vidal Blanc, it can do a lot and mixes well. spring 2018 I have Delaware vines coming. they make a good table grape, sparkling wine, and ice wine. I plan on adding one more red and 2 blues before I am all said and done, but unsure about what I will plant.
I have only ordered from double a, and I will continue to do so. The bulk rates are great prices.
good luck!


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## NorthSlopeVineyard (Feb 22, 2018)

If I were planting my vineyard over, I would focus on Petite Pearl and the other Plocher varieties. The Marquette breaks bud way too early. If you have spring frost issues or late winter thaw issues, Marquette will start growing and you will lose crop to frost. Petite Pearl breaks bud later, up to two weeks later than Marquette, at least in my vineyard. For me, that gets me out of the danger zone for frost.

Petite Pearl ripens about a week and a half after Marquette. I take mine around 2500 to 2550 GDD and shoot for Brix of about 23, which seems to get the acid about right for my taste. Marquette will over ripen if you let it. I've hit 28.5 brix, trying to get the acid down, and you can taste it In the wine. Way too high of alcohol. It tastes better picked at about 24 brix.

I also find the petite pearl to have a more orderly growth and easier to trellis. And less jack fruit in the clusters from better pollination.

Other growers here in Montana are making an interesting white wine with Sommerset. I don't grow any white grapes, so I can't help on that front.


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## BigH (Feb 25, 2018)

NorthSlopeVineyard said:


> If I were planting my vineyard over, I would focus on Petite Pearl and the other Plocher varieties. The Marquette breaks bud way too early.



So far, I have been lucky in dodging frost problems with Marquette, although I have only had two harvest seasons with it. It makes such a good wine that it might be worth the risk, but I would hesitate to let it make up more than 1/3 of my red vines.

I second your positive review of petite pearl. It is easily the best looking and behaved vine in my vineyard. I am thinking of ripping out my Foch and replacing it with more petite pearl or another Plocher red. Foch breaks bud early as well, and my vines have lacked vigor and yielded grapes of highly inconsistent quality. My Foch and Marquette were both budding on April 14 last year. Petite Pearl was a week later.

H


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