# Newbie brewing Strawberry Wine



## Cherry Puffling (Jun 11, 2021)

Hello! 

I'm a uk based first timer  We are at peak strawberry season here and I got my hands on several kilos of magnificent british strawberries for jam and wine making.

I've done about as much research as I can and it seems like everyone does it a little differently. This morning after sanitizing everything I hulled and mashed the strawberries, added the sugar and let it macerate for a couple hours, then added the boiling water. After it cooled down a smidgen, I added two crushed campden tablets (1 per gallon) and am going to let it sit for 24 hrs. Tomorrow I will add my yeast / nutrient / tannin / citric acid, pop the airlock on and let it do its thing.

Theres a few things though that my recipe and the youtube videos I've watched have been vague about and I was kind of hoping you guys could help me. 

With regards to the airlock, some people have said to fill it with water, others said sanitizer. I'm using a sanitizer that comes in powder form, can I dissolve some in water and use that or do I need something else? 

And, once my fruit is out tomorrow and the next stage begins, how long does it last, usually? Everyone is super vague on this, do I just let it sit until there are no bubbles in the airlock? And when it's ready to go into demijohns, do I dissolve and add another campden tablet? If so does it have to sit at all before I transfer it to the demijohns? 

So many questions, I'm sorry  I just really really need this to turn out gorgeous and nothing whatsoever to go wrong or my partner is going to be very cross about all this money I've spent on brewing supplies 

I really appreciate any advice you can give me as well, or things to watch out for!

Cheers!


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## salcoco (Jun 11, 2021)

I assume the sanitizer in powder form is potassium metabisulphite. if so I find a affective potion is 3 grams of powder with 11 grams of tartaric acid in one gallon of water. this can be placed in the air lock as well as in a spray bottle. I use the spray bottle to spray any tool that comes in contact with the wine or must. I suggest the best method during fermentation is to cover the pail and stir at least once a day. CO2 will still protect the fermentation. monitor with your hydrometer until wine achieves at least an sg =1020 then siphon into another carboy or demijohn then add airlock . monitor wine until it achieves a sg=to 1.000 or less. wait three days post sg=1.00 and rack off of gross lees. add powdered sanitizer , 1/4 tsp for 5 gallons. rack again in three weeks off of fine lees. let wine clear make take a few months. add powdered sanitizer at three months. do taste test and if preferred bench trials to back sweeten . if back sweetening find the desire level then add potassium sorbate and the sanitizer., then bottle. Good Luck


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## BernardSmith (Jun 11, 2021)

Hi Cherry Puffling - and welcome. 

There is really no need to fill an airlock with anything other than water. Just be sure to sanitize the airlock. If your airlock has lines that suggest the maximum volume of liquid no change in air-pressure is going to suck the water back so that it drips into your wine and as I say if the airlock was properly sanitized any water that might drip from the water trap as you insert it won't have any bacteria that will affect your must or wine. 

You used boiling water so you are setting pectins in the fruit. You want then to add pectic enzyme BEFORE you pitch (add) the yeast. Pectic enzyme will break down the pectins and prevent the wine from having a cloudy haze finish. The enzyme will also help extract more juice from the fruit. 

One of the problems that people often find when making strawberry wine is that while the wine starts off very red it can drop all color and become a strawberry blonde. The wine needs acidity to help fix the color (by "fix" I mean to prevent the color from dropping out). I think you need a pH of around 3.2 to keep the wine from becoming orange in color. And the addition of tannins can help prevent color degradation too. A wine that has too much ethanol (too high an ABV is also likely to degrade the color pigments provided by the fruit. 

You could crush a Campden tablet for every gallon of wine you rack from the primary bucket into a carboy or demijohn. They provide about 50 ppm free SO2 and that is a good amount to inhibit oxidation but the lower the pH (the more acidic the wine) the less free SO2 it will need. Note that pH itself does not really affect the taste. pH is a measure of the strength of the acids in solution. Taste is affected not by the strength of the acids but the amount of the acids and that is measured by TA. You want by measurement a TA of about 6g/L but your tongue is a good tool. If a wine tastes bright and fresh then the TA is about where it needs to be. If it tastes dull and blah then the TA is too low (TA moves in the opposite direction of pH). If the wine tastes like lemon juice then the TA is too high.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 11, 2021)

Hi! Yes I was going to add pectolase before I pitch the yeast tomorrow ...I had planned to add the citric acid, tannin and yeast/yeast nutrients directly after-- do I need to let the pectolase do its job for a bit first? With the airlocks, there is no line that I can detect :-/ I was just going to fill it half way the way I've seen folks on youtube do it.

I planned to wrap the demijohns in brown paper and will use finings later on to try and keep the colour and clarity as bright and clear as possible.

Er...how does one go about testing the PH precisely? (Edit: scrap that, I just ordered test strips haha) And indeed, how does one adjust it if needed? I've purchased a hydrometer of course, and am aiming for 14% abv. I still need to learn how to sweeten it later if necessary but that can come later.

Thank you both for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it hugely and am trying to absorb all I can.


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## BernardSmith (Jun 11, 2021)

If you haven't added all the sugar yet I would aim for a lower ABV wine. In the first place wine is all about balance and strawberries are not as rich in flavors as wine grapes. When you ferment strawberries the flavors need to balance with the flavors from the fruit. At 14% ABV you may find that the alcohol will overpower the fruit and give you more burn for your money than flavor. Balance is also about balancing the (perceived) sweetness, acidity and tannin and again, wine grapes are tannin rich. Not sure how tannin rich strawberries are and that is what gives a wine spine. A weak spined high ABV wine (14% is quite high given that many, if not most commercial wines are about 12%) may not be as wonderful to drink as a similar wine made at a lower ABV. All that said, if I were you, I would aim for a starting gravity of about 1.090 (about 12% ABV).

To change pH you add more acids if the pH is too high and more base (calcium chloride - food grade) if too low. You want the pH to be about 3.5 - 3.2 when you pitch the yeast. (a pH of 7 is the pH of distilled water). You are planning adding citric acid and citric is ONE of the dominant acids found in strawberries. The other is malic and your local home brew store will have small bags of malic acid if you wanted to add a blend of acids that more replicated the notes they create in strawberries.

I don't know that you need to wrap your carboys in paper to keep out the light. Sure standing the carboys in direct sunlight will degrade the wine color but wine is not hopped beer. Just keep the carboy away from the windows and in a room without bright lights. (A cupboard or closet is perfect.

Filling you airlock half way is perfect.

Adding pectolase say 6 -12 hours before you add the yeast is the only restriction I would suggest. The enzyme tends to break down in alcohol so you want to give the enzyme an opportunity to do its work in water. Also, if you have not yet begun to make this wine yet, you might freeze the fruit. When you freeze fruit like strawberries the ice crystals that form inside the fruit tear and rip the cell walls and the fruit expels a far greater volume of juice when it thaws. Freezing soft fruit is a well established method of extracting juice. You let the process itself extract the juice rather than any effort on your part.

One last thought, if you can I would add the fruit before you begin, to a muslin cheese cloth "bag" you make or to a nylon painters filter bag. This makes pressing the fruit before you rack (transfer) it to a second carboy for aging after active fermentation has ended. Alternatively, you can , after racking, pour the fruit into a bag and then press it to extract much of the juice. You don't want to press too hard but between your hands or by squeezing the bag you will extract the juice and not a great deal of fruit.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 13, 2021)

Hi, sorry for the delayed reply, it's been a busy time! 

I had already added all my sugar, just following the recipe, I didn't know I should hold some back. I also did use a fruit bag  Sadly I could not freeze the fruit beforehand, no room in my tiny freezer. 

I let the pectolase do its job for 24hrs before I added the citric acid and tannin. I tested the ph, which came back 3.4 ...hopefully that's not too high...and then pitched my rehydrated yeast and nutrients. I took a sample and the hydrometer reads 1.100 precisely. I half filled the airlock, made sure there's was nothing that could drip and have put it in. Now I wait for the bubbles I guess! I am slightly concerned about the yeast. I've used lalvin 71B and I was a little surprised it didn't foam while rehydrating, though I did it at the temps stated on the pack. Hopefully it's ok. I've read wine yeast doesn't always foam like bread yeast does. If there are no bubbles in the airlock within 48 hrs I shall panic and add another pack, I have more coming tomorrow!

I do hope I can keep most of the colour, it's a rather gorgeous pinkish red in the fermenter and a beautiful blushing rose in the hydrometer's test beaker. It's okay if this wine is not perfect, I am learning so much as I go, as long as it's fruity and pleasant to drink, I'm happy. For now. Perfection is a journey! 

Thank you so much for the great advice! I know where to come for help moving forward, you guys are fab!

Cheers!


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## Scooter68 (Jun 15, 2021)

For your strawberry wine, test strips for pH measurement may work, but; for darker wines reading a test strip becomes rather like reading a small print book by moonlight at new moon time. So if you are going to do more wine making, consider investing in a digital pH meter. They do require calibration (Regardless of how much you spend on one) but the accuracy is so much better and no moonlight required.


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 16, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> I do hope I can keep most of the colour,
> . It's okay if this wine is not perfect, I am learning so much as I go, as long as it's fruity and pleasant to drink, I'm happy. For now. Perfection is a journey!


My point of view is a food product developer so I/we cheat. We formulate products with several ingredients to build traits as colour. My favorite red color is black or red raspberry juice, it is intense and fifty ml. in a four liter batch will fix a pink without changing flavor. A number of other foods also give soluble stable colour, ex red sumach, cranberry, red cabbage extract, mulberry (10 ml not a lot of juice), blackberry juice (also gives astringent notes), red fleshed crab apple (some also are tannin sources). You are actively fermenting and can safely add a few ml of intense colour fresh juice for a few weeks.
I like that *perfection is a journey *how many times has the new years crop changed and a recipe needs to be tweaked to copy what was made last year. If you like cooking (playing with food) you will be a good wine maker.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 16, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> If you like cooking (playing with food) you will be a good wine maker.



I am a keen culinary enthusiast, baker and food photographer. I'm also autistic and obsessive about achieving perfection even if it takes me 500 tweaks and tries haha. 

My wine has been bubbling away in the primary fermenter (bucket) for a couple days now. I must admit I am terrified to open it for anything, is it safe to do so and add things? I thought I had to wait and keep air out until it stopped bubbling, then add campden and syphon it into demijohns,... bleah my brain is total mush, I just got vaccinated yesterday and I got all the dang side effects, imma mess lol. I like the idea though of red or black raspberry to boost the colour, howand when so I safely do that? is that a specific extract or concentrate or juice you press yourself or just like....shop bought juice?


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 16, 2021)

you can safely open and add while it is actively bubbling (gravity over 1.010). You should minimize air after it is at 1.000, that said you are opening the fermentor to rack at a week age so you could use other color as something to help top off/ fill the head space.


Cherry Puffling said:


> My wine has been bubbling away in the primary fermenter (bucket) for a couple days now. I must admit I am terrified to open it for anything, is it safe to do so and add things? I thought I had to wait and keep air out until it stopped bubbling, then add campden and syphon it into demijohns,... bleah my brain is total mush, I just got vaccinated yesterday and I got all the dang side effects, imma mess lol. I like the idea though of red or black raspberry to boost the colour, howand when so I safely do that? is that a specific extract or concentrate or juice you press yourself or just like....shop bought juice?


my favorite tool to make 100 ml of a juice is a potato masher.


As a food photographer I bet you have seen that not all cooking is pretty so use a propane torch to correct the colors. My sample of cabbage juice is from a supplier.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 16, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> My wine has been bubbling away in the primary fermenter (bucket) for a couple days now. I must admit I am terrified to open it for anything, is it safe to do so and add things?


Absolutely! You want to stir the must at least once per day, pushing down any cap that may form. If the cap (fruit solids) dries out, mold can grow.

Most of us put a towel over the primary, to keep stuff out while allowing air flow. During fermentation, the yeast uses O2 for replication, so covering with a towel works well. AFTER fermentation, then you want to eliminate air.

You can add commercial juice -- preferably 100% juice with no preservatives. Pour in a few ounces, stir to blend, add more as needed.

Keep in mind that the recipe is more-or-less just guidelines. You can blend any fruit and/or juice that you want. That may alter the flavor and/or color, but as long as you are satisfied with the result, it's good.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 16, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> Absolutely! You want to stir the must at least once per day, pushing down any cap that may form. If the cap (fruit solids) dries out, mold can grow.


Yikes!!! I did not realise this. I will give it a good stir every day. How will I know if it's ready to be racked? Should I just do it after a week even if there's still activity?


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## winemaker81 (Jun 16, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> Yikes!!! I did not realise this. I will give it a good stir every day. How will I know if it's ready to be racked? Should I just do it after a week even if there's still activity?


Especially during fermentation, wine is very forgiving, so you're probably fine.

Do not use time to determine when to rack -- use a hydrometer. Fermentation is a natural process that is affected by many factors, so there is no certain time in which it will complete.

You can rack at any point between 1.020 and "done" (typically < 0.997). Some folks rack closer to 1.020 to help preserve aroma, others nearer to "done" to extract more from the fruit. There is no wrong answer.

I typically rack fruit between 1.000 and 1.010, leaving some activity in the wine. When I move the wine to a carboy, I leave extra headspace (several inches) to avoid a vigorous fermentation blowing chunks through the airlock. At this point I leave the wine for 7-14 days -- fermentation completes and the gross lees (mostly fruit solids) starts dropping. I rack again after the gross lees starts to compact -- the layer builds up, then shrinks as the solids compact. You lose less wine this way.

After this you want minimal headspace, a few inches (3 to 6 cm) from the bottom of the stopper.


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## Rembee (Jun 16, 2021)

Maybe this will help.
Day 1 - To a bucket of sufficient size, add juice, smashed up fruit in a brew bag, any water needed as per your recipe, potassium metabisulfite, sugar to obtain the correct starting SG, pectic enzyme and adjust ph. Give a good stir. Cover bucket with a towel or cheese cloth. Let sit for 12 to 24 hours to allow enzymes to work.
Day 2 - recheck SG and ph. Make any adjustments. Add your yeast nutrient and tannins if the recipe calls for them.
Stir bucket and then pitch the yeast. Recover the bucket.
Day 3 - Stir bucket and squeeze fruit in the brew bag with clean hands. Check SG. Recover the bucket.
Repeat this process everyday until SG is between a 1.020 and 1.010. Then squeeze juice from brew bag and remove the bag with fruit. Now you can rack into a glass carboy or demijohn and place under an airlock. Allow fermentation to complete. Once fermentation has completed, you can now add the recommended amount of potassium metabisulfite for the amount of wine you have made.
At this point you have now entered into the clarification stage of wine making. Letting the wine settle and clear. You can also degas the wine which will aid in the clearing process or allow it to degas on its own.
This is basic steps in wine making.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 16, 2021)

Whoa whoa whoa. This is completely different than the recipe I am following  Have I completely screwed this up?? I just did what the recipe said to.

Day 1 - hulled and chopped 4kg of strawberries, added them to bucket, mashed with a potato masher until it was mostly liquid and pulp, then added 3kg of sugar. Left to macerate for 2 hours, then added 8 Litres of boiling water, and two crushed campden tablets. Covered and let sit for 24hrs.

Day 2 - Strained out the fruit using fruit bag / collander and then added pectolase. covered and let sit for 24 hrs.

Day 3 - Added citric acid and tannin, tested the PH which came back as 3.4. Added the rehydrated yeast and yeast nutrient. Took a sample for the gravity test. It came back 1.100. I sealed the lid and set the airlock in place.

Day 4 - The bubbles started appearing in the airlock around 12 hrs after pitching the yeast

Day 5 - Vigorous bubbles in Airlock.

Today - Still bubbling away. It's not been opened or touched. I am about to go sanitise my spoon and give it a stir. Should I take a reading? How often should I be doing that?? Please tell me I don't need to panic that I've wasted 4kgs of strawberries


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## winemaker81 (Jun 16, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> Have I completely screwed this up??


You do NOT need to panic. Your recipe works and your wine is fine.

There are dozens, probably hundreds of recipes for strawberry wine floating around. @Rembee's method is different from what you have started. Ignore his recipe for now, since you are on a different path. [FWIW, I'd use his method in the future since I like to ferment with the fruit, but that doesn't matter today.]

I check SG starting typically on Day 4. There isn't enough activity before that so I don't bother. Starting on Day 4, I stir the wine well, then check the SG. Some folks stir more than once per day, which is fine. Check the SG once, as it's not going to change enough that you should check it twice.

Make sure your spoon, hydrometer, and test jar are clean, then sanitize. I used to use a turkey baster to withdraw samples. As long as whatever tool you are using is clean and sanitized, it's fine.

Take your SG reading, then pour the wine back into the fermenter. As long as everything was clean when you started, and you sanitized, this is perfectly safe.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 16, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> As long as everything was clean when you started, and you sanitized, this is perfectly safe.


Oh thank goodness. Yeah I will definitely do it different next time. I'm learning so much here, thank you! You guys are fantastic. When I make blackberry wine next I will do it the way he said ^^

I've been super anal about making sure everything that comes into contact with the wine has been properly sanitized, no worries there. Even the stuff that doesn't directly touch it, like my measuring spoons when I was adding in the other stuff, the vessels I dissolved the stuff in etc. I even wear a headcover, apron, gloves and sleeves haha. I know it's not needed but better safe than "whoopsie there's a hair in my wine".


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## winemaker81 (Jun 16, 2021)

@Cherry Puffling, you're normal for a beginner. It's a new adventure and most are paranoid about their wine.

Personally, making sure EVERYTHING is clean is critical to success. Wine is very forgiving, but IMO it's better to give the wine less things to be forgiven.

Hair in the wine? Ask folks about the things they've found in grapes and other fruit ... hair is trivial. 

Headcover, etc. are not necessary. But if using them makes you comfortable? Then use 'em.


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## Rembee (Jun 16, 2021)

Sorry for any confusion. I wasn't trying to scare you. My method is just a guide line that you may or may not use for your next batch of wine. Stay on track with @winemaker81 as he is directing you with this strawberry batch. As he stated, DO not panic, your wine is fine. I merely was giving an alternative method. This is what makes this forum so awesome in our journey as wine makers. Everyone has a different method and helps one another. 
Hope all is well and good luck with your 1st batch.
And by the way, welcome to WMT!


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 16, 2021)

Oh my god....what happened??? The colour, it's....so bad...it's an awful shade or orangey pink, like salmon, it was such a beautiful deep pinkish red and now it's...euuch!! And is it supposed to smell like that? Like an extremely yeasty and pungent strawberry??

I...I didn't expect this. I don't know what it means. I'm not sure how to write the hydrometer reading. It was at 1.100 and now it's at the line marked 50...I think its 1.050? Is that where it should be? Attaching photos for reference

Sorry I sound so panicky, I swear I'm not


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## winemaker81 (Jun 16, 2021)

Your wine is progressing in a totally normal fashion. As long as you maintain the good hygiene you have been practicing, you will have a successful conclusion.

We record hydrometer readings with 3 digits to the right of the decimal, so you are correct.

At this point the yeast is very active and that yeasty smell is normal. If you don't smell yeast, _then_ you have a problem. Once fermentation completes and the wine clears, the yeast smell dissipates. Your wine is going to change steadily over the next 3 months, and will continue to change (at a slower rate) over the year after that.

Strawberry wine does not retain that beautiful color it starts with. Keep in mind that your wine is cloudy because of solids, and once it clears the appearance will change. You are also looking at it in bulk, where it looks darker -- when (in the future) in a glass, it will look different.

There are things that can be done to adjust the color after fermentation is complete, but don't worry about that for several months.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 16, 2021)

Thank you, that's a huge relief. I definitely want to do some colour adjustment later if I can...I knew it wasn't going to stay that deep strawberry pink but I wasn't expecting it to be so drastically different after just a couple days. It really is a volatile process!


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## winemaker81 (Jun 16, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> It really is a volatile process!


The first month is a series of almost continuous chemical changes. After that the changes slow down, but you will experience changes throughout the lifespan of the wine.

Re-read my post #13 in this thread. That will guide you up to your second racking. Add 1 Campden (crushed to powder) for every 4 liters of wine, each time you rack and at bottling.

I assume you're using a pair of 4 liter jugs for bulk storage? Keep excess wine in smaller containers with minimal headspace. I keep a collection of 125 ml, 150 ml, 200 ml, and 375ml bottles for storing the excess. they are mostly screwcaps, which are not ideal for long term storage, but work fine for topup wine. Screw the caps on tightly.

Watch the wine for 3 to 4 weeks after the second racking. If you get more than a dusting of sediment, rack again. Then let the wine set for 3 months. Add another Campden for every 4 liters, every 3 months. You may have to withdraw a sample to be able to gently stir the Campden in, then replace the sample.

If the wine is clear, you can bottle after the last 3 month period. While I'd normally suggest aging it another 3 months, it's your first batch and you want to taste the fruits of your labor!!! Everyone's first batch goes much quicker than you'd think.

Taste the wine at each racking -- this teaches you directly about how wine ages. Once you bottle it, write down your impressions each time you open a bottle, and put a bottle away for at least a year. After you open that last bottle, read your notes from first to last.

Regarding color -- fruit wines benefit from at least a bit of backsweetening as it brings out the fruit flavor. You will need to add potassium sorbate and Campden before sweetening, to prevent a renewed fermentation. You can sweeten with a dark colored juice, such as cherry juice, which may brighten the color. Using a juice will affect the flavor, but small amounts should not change it much.

Other folks might have better suggestions for color enhancing.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 17, 2021)

Many of us ended up with a flat spot on our foreheads when we discovered all of our 'mistakes' and less than best methods in our first batches. Unless you have watched others make wine or have an on scene coach you are going to slip up here and there. As mentioned wine is pretty forgiving and down the road you can look back and see how far you have progress and litterally enjoy the "fruits" of your labor even more.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 18, 2021)

Hey guys, quick question, I needed to order some potassium sorbate (the original recipe didn't call for it) and I saw this red grape concentrate so I grabbed some. I remembered it being listed in other threads and thought it might do the trick for backsweetening and possibly some colour correction. When I read the back of the bottle though it said it should be used prior to fermentation. Can it be used to backsweeten still or should I just put it away until I make other wine?


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## winemaker81 (Jun 18, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> Can it be used to backsweeten still or should I just put it away until I make other wine?


I expect the concentrate will contain grape solids, so you'd have to clear the wine again. Save it for your next project.

A few years back I made Elderberry from a concentrate which was designed to reconstitute to 19 liters. Since I need topup wine (bulk aging in 19 liter carboy), I added 1 liter grape concentrate and 2 liters water to extend, and the final result is pleasing,.






2018 Elderberry Batch #1 – Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site







wine.bkfazekas.com





FYI -- the Vintner’s Best brand is not pure juice -- it contains apple and pear juice, which I did not realize until after I started the wine. Regardless, I was pleased with the result.

Moral of the story: read the label FIRST, not last ....


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 18, 2021)

Sadly it was purchased online and I didnt get to see the back label until I got it lol. It's ok, I'll use it in the blackberry wine I plan to do next. I did flirt with the idea of throwing it in now as I am still in the thick of primary fermentation, purely as a colour boost (and just sweeten later,) but that's probably a terrible idea haha

I guess I'll backsweeten with simple syrup then. Not sure how best to tweak the colour tho, most of the suggestions I've seen floating around are things I can't seem to find here in the UK and people seem vehemently opposed to food colouring though no one's really said why or what would happen to the wine.  I might have to live with this washed out salmon colour. I know you don't do it till bottling and that's obviously a ways off but I like to have a clear plan...even if I tweak it a hundred times along the way lol


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 18, 2021)

the quick answer is yes you could, it is like cooking. ,, note! however 250 ml of concentrate in a four liter batch is 6.25%, your wine could turn into red grape with hints of strawberry. As a light blush I try to be at 0.5% or possibly 1% added colour and run it through the fermentation. I am today trying to undo tannin flavor from crab apple which has become magnified now that all the sugar has been fermented away. 


Cherry Puffling said:


> and I saw this red grape concentrate so I grabbed some. I remembered it being listed in other threads and thought it might do the trick for backsweetening and possibly some colour correction. When I read the back of the bottle though it said it should be used prior to fermentation. Can it be used to backsweeten still or should I just put it away until I make other wine?


If looking at grocery store product, I have taken mixed berry frozen juice concentrate for tweaking a finished wine flavor/ color or apple concentrate for a cider.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 18, 2021)

Oh gosh I was going to add like 50ml max, not the whole 250ml, I just want the colour boost really, I'd rather precision sweeten with simple syrup, and I don't want to mess with the strawberry flavour.

I did see some strawberry concentrate on Amazon but it had lot of other stuff in it I was not keen on. I dunno. We can't get frozen juice concentrate here like you do in North America, which always struck me as odd. (I am Canadian expat). They sell it in bottles on the shelf instead and call it squash but it's not the same, it's got a ton of additives and artificial flavour etc.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 18, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> people seem vehemently opposed to food colouring though no one's really said why or what would happen to the wine.


Food coloring will give the wine an artificial look, way too bright to be natural. Backsweetening with sugar and accepting the color are good choices.

I agree with @Rice_Guy, using the grape concentrate on a small batch may strongly alter the flavor of the wine, so be cautious. However, if you save the concentrate for use in Blackberry, it should produce a nice increase in body.

Planning ahead is a great idea! We get a lot of questions from folks who are in the middle of something when they realize they have a problem -- it's _much _easier to guide than to fix.


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## BernardSmith (Jun 18, 2021)

Not sure that there will be any problem using the concentrate. The label suggests that this product is for country wines presumably to add body and additional complexity of flavor and missing nutrients and while it may require additional time for clearing that would also apply if you were back sweetening with honey and some other sources of sweetness. But I would imagine that the grape concentrate is going to change the flavor profile of your wine. If that is what you want, fine and good but you may want to add a simple syrup (volume to be determined by bench testing) and that would not change the flavor of your wine as much as bring any fruit flavors forward.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 18, 2021)

Yeah. I think I will just back sweeten with a little simple syrup when the time comes and leave the colour alone. It's just a bit disappointing, I was hoping the colour would stay nearer to what I first had, but then, maybe it will darken a little once it's cleared and had time to age. 


winemaker81 said:


> it's _much _easier to guide than to fix.



This is so true. I hate being caught out by the unexpected and having to panic-fix things.


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## franc1969 (Jun 18, 2021)

@Cherry Puffling Try not to be stressed and panic, I know that's hard in itself. This is all experimentation and once you have bought the equipment, it's just ingredients, you can try again until you find what works. 
You have several months before your wine has settled and aged enough to be at all concerned, so you have a little experiment time and time to look in shops. You may not even need anything at all. Depending on the grocery store chain, I have access to several juices that would work for color, not just sold as concentrates. RW Knudsen is a brand here in the USA, they have "Just Tart Cherry" "Just Black Cherry" "Just Blackcurrant" and others. Aldi has an "Antioxidant Power" juice that might work, several juices in it, but all purplish, higher sugar blend. Ikea sells their own brands of Lingonberry, Blueberry, etc concentrates, those might be perfect for this as well.
Try adding a bit at a time into water with a dropper, and see how much it would take to get closer to the color you expected from the strawberry. Adding some of the Ikea concentrates or Aldi juice might get closer to the sugar you need to heighten strawberry flavor too.


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 18, 2021)

well said


franc1969 said:


> @Cherry Puffling Try not to be stressed and panic, , , have several months before your wine has settled and aged enough to be at all concerned, so you have a little experiment time and time to look in shops. You may not even need anything at all. Depending on the grocery store chain, I have access to several juices that would work for color,
> Try adding a bit at a time into water with a dropper, and see how much it would take to get closer to the color you expected from the strawberry. Adding some of the Ikea concentrates or Aldi juice might get closer to the sugar you need to heighten strawberry flavor too.


a trick of the trade, I tasted a gold medal fruit wine at state fair which was back sweetened with a grocery store syrup, judges only found the trick after the wine was awarded. I would have tested the dropper of juice/ syrup in a white wine base


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## Jovimaple (Jun 18, 2021)

I have a batch of @dangerdave 's Sweet Strawberry Tart DB in primary right now. He added strawberry daiquiri/margarita mix after fermentation was complete. He also added some sugar, too, according to the recipe. Since he won the contest, I am following his instructions to jazz up the strawberry and the color like he did!

Link to the original post:





WMT (Unofficial) Dragon Blood Variant Contest


Congratulations to all! It was fun to participate.....now I see I need to get a few more batches started to taste the winning wines!




www.winemakingtalk.com


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 18, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> grocery store syrup


like Monin or something?


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## Scooter68 (Jun 18, 2021)

True confession time... I make a smoked salsa now and then and I did try a couple of drops of green food coloring in a 4 pint recipe. Yup, it took on a slightly unnatural color. (My Smoked salsa is tomatillos, onions and peppers grilled over hickory chips then mixed with more sweet peppers (various colors) so the salsa I tinted was a light green with flecks of black and red from the grill and red peppers. ) Moral of the story, go natural and let the color come naturally OR use natural colors like Deep red Cherry flesh to add a little color. Just be aware that a light flavor wine can easily be influenced by other fruits. I used 20 cherries in a one gallon batch or peach wine. Very little perception of color change and fortunately no flavor change.

That all being said do as you have been doing - ask questions and experiment a little too. As long as the predominant responses are not NO NO NO! Then experimenting is part of the fun of wine making.


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## Jovimaple (Jun 18, 2021)

Obligatory picture of the Sweet Strawberry Tart as it is fermenting away


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 20, 2021)

Hey guys! This morning's reading was right between 1.000 and 0.995 so I racked off into my demijohns. I probably should have done it yesterday but I was unwell. Anyway, that abv reading, is that the final gravity? Or is the final measured only after fermentation is totally complete? or is it after backsweetening etc, right before bottling? There has been very little activity, and I did not stop what little fermentation is ongoing with campden and whatnot, I just racked into demijohns, I'm planning to let it hang out in the demijohns for 7-14 days ish as winemaker81 suggested in post #13.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 20, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> Anyway, that abv reading, is that the final gravity?


The Final Gravity will be when fermentation is 100% done. Check it again in a week or 2 -- _most of the time_ the FG will between 0.990 and 0.996. I've had some stubborn ones that never got below 1.000, but that's an exception, not a rule.

FG is when fermentation is done. I'm not sure what to call the SG after backsweetening -- oddly enough, that question has not been asked that I can recall.

FYI -- ABV is Alcohol By Volume. You can calculate that using the OG and FG. Unfortunately there is no single equation that calculates ABV -- the equation varies depending on the final answer, so once you know the range in which the ABV lies, you choose the equation that fits that range to get a more accurate answer.

Without lab testing, I don't believe you can get a 100% accurate answer, but for home winemakers, within +/- 0.5% is typically close enough.

This site has an ABV calculator. There is another site that lists 5 equations with descriptions about each, but I cannot find my bookmark ...









Wine Alcohol Content Calculator


Calculating the alcohol content of a wine that you made is always fun. While amateur wine makers don’t need to report this value to anyone it’s just neat to know how much alcohol you&#8…




winemakersacademy.com


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## Jovimaple (Jun 20, 2021)

I would check the S.G. the next time you rack and call that the final. It might get a bit lower than now. You can check the S.G. after you back sweeten, but that's just more for you to know how sweet it ended up. The starting and final gravities are for measuring the ABV and knowing when the fermentation is finished.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 20, 2021)

Aye, I know the calculation, just wasn't sure the when of it. The recipe I followed said to use this reading but that didn't seem right to me, as it's still active. No very active mind you, and I don't imagine it will change by a whole lot but I like to be as precise as I can. I'll use the reading I take when I introduce the campden and potassium sorbate. When should I do that by the way? At the next racking in a couple weeks?

I also picked up some finings to help clear it. When is the best time to use it? I am trying to build a timeline of what comes next

I can't thank you guys enough for all the patience and support! You are all so lovely!!


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## winemaker81 (Jun 20, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> I'll use the reading I take when I introduce the campden and potassium sorbate.


Once fermentation is 100% complete, you can stir to degas. With cleansed/sanitized spoon, stir vigorously for 5 minutes, changing directions every 20 seconds. If you think you will continue winemaking, purchase a drill-mounted stirring rod -- mine works very well for mixing and degassing, and is a labor saver.

You can add the fining agent after the degassing. If you use kieselsol/chitosan, add the kieselsol and stir well, wait an hour, then add the chitosan and stir well. Rack into your secondary containers. Note - directions vary from 5 minutes and 24 hours in between adding the kieselsol & chitosan. I've been doing 1 hour and it works fine.

Note - adding fining agents to a wine that has not been degassed doesn't work. The CO2 holds sediment in suspension.

Many folks use time for degassing & clearing -- leave the wine long enough and it will degas, and _most_ will clear.

Currently I degas all wines as the wine clears faster with the CO2 reduced. Sometimes I use a fining agent, sometimes not. Currently for red wines that I'm aging a year, I don't. Fruit wines (next time I make one) I probably will.

Add the sorbate + K-meta just before you backsweeten. I do it just before bottling, while some folks wait a week in between. I've heard reports of sediment dropping after backsweetening, but I've never had it happen.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 20, 2021)

You sir, are amazing  thank you so much!


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## sour_grapes (Jun 20, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> The Final Gravity will be when fermentation is 100% done. Check it again in a week or 2 -- _most of the time_ the FG will between 0.990 and 0.996. I've had some stubborn ones that never got below 1.000, but that's an exception, not a rule.
> 
> FG is when fermentation is done. I'm not sure what to call the SG after backsweetening -- oddly enough, that question has not been asked that I can recall.
> 
> ...



Here is a thorough explanation:
FermCalc Alcohol & Solids Content Calculations

But, for @Cherry Puffling 's use, I would just use the simplest: ABV = (OG - FG)*131.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 21, 2021)

I've always used this site. Very simple to use: Alcohol By Volume ABV Calculator | Brewer's Friend

I'll play with the numbers sometimes to see if it quits at say 1.000 what will my ABV be then and just to keep tabs on the progress.
Strawberry wine should probably be aged at least 3-6 months to take that sharp new wine age off of it. Longer is better but Strawberry is sort of a white wine class and they are generally not aged as long.

Remember also that any additions you make once the final racking is done can lower the ABV unless you are toppiing off with another wine of the same or higher ABV. 

As to taking an SG after back sweetening - I normally do it just to see where it lands. There are some general lines of thought as to how to name a wine as a "Dry," "Off-Dry," "Semi-Sweet," & "Sweet" but in reality what you perceive as dry, sweet etc is purely a personal thing. A strong wine like a blackberry or tart cherry might be perceived as off-dry or semi-sweet with a significantly higher SG than a white wine.* And the ABV will also play into how sweet a wine tastes to some degree. So keeping tabs on the SG after back-sweetening is nice to do for personal reference but that's about all. (I still do it to keep my records on how much I will probably backsweeten a wine.) 

* I had a Tart Cherry wine with an ABV of 15% and the SG after back-Sweetening was 1.014 and you really didn't get any sweetness until the finish because of the strength of the Tart Cherries and the ABV.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 21, 2021)

@Scooter68 raises a great point -- backsweetening and perception. The winemaker's perception of sweetness directly affects the result of backsweetening. Fruit type, ABV, and acid all affect this.

I do not have a pre-determined target when backsweetening. I go totally by taste and use an iterative process to get to the final point. Like Scooter68, I check SG afterward simply as part of my normal record keeping process. My method is as unscientific as is possible.

Note that my method of backsweetening has risks -- I sweeten the entire batch iteratively and stop when I hit my desired result. This is risky -- once sugar is added to a batch it's REALLY hard to remove ... don't mess up as it's unfixable.

I'm a dry red drinker and my version of "sweet" is bone dry by many standards, and grape wines are rarely backsweetened. Most of my batches are at least 5 gallons, so I add sugar in 1/4 cup increments. When I get to the point where the wine needs _just a bit more_, I stop.

My 2018 Mead (Metheglin) took 3/4 cup sugar with an ending SG of 1.003. When my son & I sweetened it, we poured a large glass of the dry mead as a control and then added 1/4 cup sugar to the batch, stirring very well with a drill-mounted stirring rod. After each addition we took a sample and taste tested. After the 3rd addition he commented that it needed just a bit more sugar, and was surprised when I said, "Ok, we're done."

A year later we popped a cork and he agreed, the mead was perfect -- for us. [His tastes are very similar to my own.]

@Cherry Puffling, when you're ready to backsweeten, go easy on the sugar. You're making a smaller batch (8 liters) so start with less sugar and add in small increments.

If you are unsure, *stop*. Taste test again in a month to see if it's right. If so, bottle; if not continue the process.

There is no formula for backsweetening. It's one of those things that has to be done seat-of-the-pant. Go slow and listen to your tastebuds.


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## mikewatkins727 (Jun 22, 2021)

Here is my method for backsweetening. The figures used are for a 1 gallon (128 oz) batch, use the same procedure to upscale for larger batches. I use a 2:1 simple sugar solution. Draw 1 cup (8 oz) of wine. Add 5ml of simple sugar using a syringe to the sample, stir and taste. Keep adding 5 ml of simple sugar until taste is right. I follow @winemaker81 mehod and STOP when it needs a bit more. If it took four, 5 ml shots to sweeten 8 oz, then 15 cup X 4 X 5 mls = 300 ml of simple sugar needs to be added for sweetening. (Note: there are 16 - 8 oz cups in a gallon. You already sweetened one so you only have to sweeten 15 more.)


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## winemaker81 (Jun 22, 2021)

One caution with Mike's method -- the more samples tasted, the smaller the volume of the remaining sample. The amount of sugar can be miscalculated because of this and too much sugar added. I know this, as I did it!  

Once the amount of sweetening has been determined, I suggest drawing another sample, sweetening it to the determined level, and double-checking it. It's like with carpentry, measure twice, cut one ...


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## mikewatkins727 (Jun 22, 2021)

@winemaker81 : I draw only one 8 oz sample, adding sugar to it.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 22, 2021)

mikewatkins727 said:


> @winemaker81 : I draw only one 8 oz sample, adding sugar to it.


My response is -- in hindsight -- confusing. Let me explain better.

Draw an 8 oz sample, add sugar, taste. The overall volume of the sample is reduced by the amount of wine tasted. Repeat this several times and the wine / sugar ratio is altered so the actual wine volume is less. For example:

round 1 - 8.0 oz wine, 5 ml sugar, 1/2 oz removed to taste
round 2 - 7.5 oz wine, total 10 ml sugar, 1/2 oz removed to taste
round 3 - 7.0 oz wine, total 15 ml sugar, 1/2 oz removed to taste
round 4 - 6.5 oz wine, total 20 ml sugar, 1/2 oz removed to taste
round 5 - 6.0 oz wine, total 25 mi sugar, 1/2 oz removed to taste

The problem is that by round 5, the calculation is to add 25 ml to 8 oz of wine, while the taste test is adding to ~6 oz wine. This is not exact as the amount of sugar is reduced by each tasted sample, but it illustrates the situation.

This should produce a less-sweet wine, but somehow I managed to mess up the calculation once and over-sweetened. Nope, no clue what I did other than having a problem performing simple multiplication. 

Are you doing something different?


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## Scooter68 (Jun 22, 2021)

The above comments to get a correct sweetness simply point out that the process requries a little thought. I normally have a standard amount I start with and my taste sampling is very small, less than 1/4 oz but it could still affect the out come.


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## mikewatkins727 (Jun 22, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> My response is -- in hindsight -- confusing. Let me explain better.
> 
> Draw an 8 oz sample, add sugar, taste. The overall volume of the sample is reduced by the amount of wine tasted. Repeat this several times and the wine / sugar ratio is altered so the actual wine volume is less. For example:
> 
> ...



Apparently so. I never account for 1/2 oz being removed. It is more of "I stick my tongue in the sauce" to get an idea of sweetness. Also, I stop short of thinking it is sweet enough, _like you, if it could use a little bit more . . . stop. _After all, setting for a period of time the sweetness changes.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 22, 2021)

@Cherry Puffling,, I hope the backsweetening discussion isn't too confusing. Both methods work fine, especially if you keep in mind that you can always add more later.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 22, 2021)

No, not confusing at all, no worries. I'm still processing everything but it all makes sense. Sorry for my lack of reply, I meant to before now, I've been a bit distracted here with life / jam making / photography / football (soccer) etc. I had a ton of fresh strawberries for the jam and couldn't resist grabbing a shot with the demijohns before I proccessed them earlier. My first ever wine, one for the scrapbook 

View attachment Strawberry Wine Demijohns.jpg


When it comes to backsweetening I planned to do what Mike said, really, draw a cup, add the simple syrup in tiny 5ml increments until it is nearly sweet enough and just needs a smidge more as you said, then calculate how much I need to do the whole batch, less a cup.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 22, 2021)

WOW! That photo is amazingly beautiful. It would make a great wine label:




You can put your name, bottling date, etc. on the label -- this one is a moment's inspiration when I saw the open space on the right jug.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 22, 2021)

Thank you  I've already designed a label though haha (I'm obsessed)

Hey how do you make the image visible on the post like that, instead of an attachment?


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## winemaker81 (Jun 22, 2021)

There is a thread for posting labels -- when yours is finalized, post it.






Post your labels here


Funny. You folks are all so professional, I guess I'm a misfit. If I didn't need to identify the contents I wouldn't bother with a label at all. I can't even be bothered to peel the old labels off. BTW, I didn't want to be branded a heretic so I kept my mouth shut about SP. I made a batch and I...




www.winemakingtalk.com





The one I posted is just a sample. Your photo struck me, so I quickly opened it with Avery Design & Print, and added the text. I like using photos as backgrounds, a relatively new development for me.

I sometimes design labels WAY ahead of time, as the mood strikes me. In the picture below, I used the current version of the label for my 2020 2nd run wine -- the background is a picture @NorCal posted of his vineyard -- he graciously gave me permission to use it. I faded the picture using Paint.Net so the text is visible on top. Your picture has open spaces with homogeneous colors, so text can be placed without altering the photo.


To include a photo, click the *Attach Files* button to load the file. Place the pointer inside your message where you want the picture to appear, then click *Full Image*.

A lot of photos are really big, so I use Paint.Net to reduce the image size, when necessary. This also cuts file size so they load faster.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 22, 2021)

I don't have that on my tablet, I'll have to try on my laptop later ☺ EDIT: Nope. Don't have that option there either haha, it's ok.

I like your label! We are moving to Italy, hopefully next spring, covid permitting, so I based mine around a fanciful logo I came up with for if I should start a fruit wine and artisan preserves empire  it's good fun to plan ahead.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 27, 2021)

Hey guys. 

Quick update on the Strawberry Wine: It looks great, the colour is improving a lot as it starts to clear! 1 week to go before I degas, use finings and rack. 

But now I have other fish to fry. Tomorrow I have 8 kilos of frozen blackberries coming. The wine recipe I used for the Strawberry works for any berry, so I am going to use the same quantities though I'll be amending my procedure based on advice here. I do have one slight concern though....

Ok maybe not slight. I am doubling the batch. The recipe calls for 4kg berries, 3kg sugar, 8 liters of water. Now, with the strawberry the must alone (without the fruit pulp) had a volume of 10 litres give or take. But I am doubling the blackberry batch and using 8kg/6kg/16l, so I can extrapolate that I will have a volume of 20 liters...which is what my primary fermenter is, 20l. But thats 20l *without* the fruit pulp and bag, which I intended to leave in for the duration of the primary fermentation this time. Theres like 2-3 inches between the 20l line and the top of the bucket but I'm now scared that there is not going to be enough room in the bucket. I only have one fruit bag and don't want to split the batch into two buckets, so I was wondering, If I had to, could I withhold some of the water until the fruit bag comes out, then add it? Not much, just like two liters. Or do you reckon I'll have just enough room to squeeze and stir etc everyday?


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## BernardSmith (Jun 27, 2021)

Great question. I would hold back the total amount of water until you remove the fruit as long as the SG is not too high.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 27, 2021)

How high is too high for SG?


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## winemaker81 (Jun 27, 2021)

2 lbs / 0.9 kg sugar in 1 US gallon / 3.8 liters produces a SG of 1.090. Your recipe calls for 6.6 lbs / 3 kg in 8 liters of water, which is 3.3 lbs / 1.5 kg in 4 liters. This produces a SG above 1.135, not including whatever the fruit contributes. This is a rich enough environment the yeast may not start. Shorting the water will make the SG higher. I recommend for beginners to not start with the SG above 1.100 so that your likelihood of getting a good fermentation is higher.

A recipe suggestion -- do not blindly add a set amount of sugar. Add 0.9 kg for each 4 liters, add the fruit, stir well, and check the SG. If it's between 1.085 and 1.100, you're fine. Don't add more sugar than will bring the SG above 1.100.

Shorting the water could push the SG up too much. I lean against it for that reason. If you were making 10% ABV wines it would work ok, but the sugar level of your recipe is way higher.

I have a couple of ideas:

1) freeze half the berries and make the second batch after the first is in secondary storage. If you have the freezer space, this is a no-cost solution. Actually, freezing the berries breaks down the fruit for better extraction, so it may be a good idea to freeze them first.

2) get another, preferably larger, primary fermenter. Are Rubbermaid Brutes available in the UK? They're food grade and a lot of us in the USA use them. One in the 37 to 45 liter range (10-12 gallons) is good for everything you're likely to make. I have a pair of 32 gallon / 121 liter Brutes for fermenting larger batches of grapes, and am considering buying one or two 10-12 gallon Brutes for smaller batches.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 27, 2021)

Hmm. Well my starting SG with the strawberry (same ratios) was 1.100, but that's neither here nor there. I do not have any freezer space sadly. I think though, for the sake of ensuring nothing goes wrong, I'm going to do a regular batch instead of a double batch. I still have time to amend my order to 4kg instead of 8kg of frozen blackberries. I can always start a second batch, as you say, once the blackberry is out of the bucket and into the carboy. Maybe I'll make it a mixed berry batch or blueberry  

Naught wrong with a bit of variety, heh.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 27, 2021)

Oh I could just do 1 and a half batches! 6kg of berries instead of 8kg. Duh


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 27, 2021)

Yeah that's what I am going to do. I'll start with 6kg of frozen blackberries, 4kg of sugar (withholding 1/2 kg of the sugar the recipe calls for), and 12 L of water. (plus 250ml red grape concentrate).

Is that enough sugar held back, do you think? I'd like it to finish between 13.5% and 14%. (I realize that's fairly high)

The above should give me 15L ish of volume, leaving plenty of space for the fruit pulp and bag.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 27, 2021)

SG 1.100 will produce roughly 13.5 ABV, so that sounds like a good target.

Each 0.45 kg (1 lb) sugar produces rough 0.045 "points" in 4 liters of water, so 0.9 kg sugar produces SG 1.090 in plain water. [The actual figure is 2 lbs sugar in 128 oz water, so I'm rounding a bit, but it's close enough.]

The difficulty is that we don't know how much sugar the fruit will contribute, so I'd start with less sugar. 

Since you're doing 12 liters water, I'd start with 2.5 kg sugar. [0.9 * 3 is 2.7 but I'm starting low.] Add the fruit, stir well, and test the SG. If it's below 1.100, add more sugar, stir well, and test again. Repeat until you've hit the target SG.

If you do this method, I'm curious how much sugar you actually use.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 28, 2021)

Well, everything just got turned on it's ear. The shop just delivered my berries. They were short on bags of frozen blackberries (350g each) so decided to substitute the missing bags with bags of mixed frozen berries (blackberry, black currant, strawberry and raspberry)....that are 1kg each!! And they price matched. So long story short, I just got a boatload of free fruit, and now have 4kg of blackberries and 6kg of mixed berries. Slight panic, but I couldn't refuse so much free fruit, so I struggled and found *just* enough freezer space for the blackberries, (though theres not enough room to squeeze a fart in there now) and will instead be making one and a half batches of mixed berry wine today. 

I'm not going to add the grape concentrate to this one, with that mix of berries I don't think it needs it. I'll save it for the blackberries.

I'm gonna need another carboy!  And a bigger house.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 28, 2021)

Yeah, You are in it now. Go to Lowe's or your local big box home improvement and pickup a couple of food safe 5 Gallon buckets (Don't bother with the lids unless they are included.) As for carboys, start shopping. I've got 7 x 3 gallon carboys. I like that size for batches as it matches my fruit supplies nicely and I can lift it without killing myself. And just a hint, take a few minutes to mark the buckets with the volume on the side. I do mine at 1 gal, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5.... That way I know where I'm at on volume. My batches are always either 3 gallon or 1 gallon so a 5 gallon bucket lets me start with a volume of 4 gallons +/-and with a low foaming yeast I've never had an overflow problem.

Personally I don't think those blackberries will need ANY help from a grape concentrate or tannin. I've got a batch of blackberry that's only 4 months old and it could be bottled now if I had the time (It's my 50th batch of wine in 6 years). It's at 16.5% ABV and dry and flat out great. I make most of my fruit wines with single variety fruit unless I'm doing a berry blend (Like yours) or a second pressing of something like blueberries. What I have done with blueberries is add a little white grape juice concentrate so it doesn't get the overpowering concord grape flavor over the blueberries. That white grape will give a nice aroma to the wine.

*By the way check out the Country Fruit Winemaking section of this site. Lots of help there and look over the Recipes section too.






Country Fruit Winemaking


Forum for the discussion of country fruit winemaking made from fruit. Wine making that covers fresh fruit as well as fruit juice buckets and frozen fruit.




www.winemakingtalk.com




*


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 28, 2021)

Thank you, I will! 

I have 3 fermentation buckets and can have both wines on the go at the same time, it's the carboy I need. I already have 1 coming this week (11L) plus I have two 5L glass demijohns free. That's enough to rack the mixed berry wine into (carboy +1 demijohn)...and I need at least 1 demijohn free to rack my strawberry wine so the blackberry wine will have to wait until I either bottle my strawberry wine and free up two demijohns or just buy another carboy...which is more likely what I will do but I need to consider some things. They cost about £17 here for the 11L PET carboys which is sod all but I've kinda completely blown past what I told my husband I was going to spend/make by a mile... haha...ooops. Space is rapidly becoming an issue too. UK homes tend to serious lack closets and storage space and mine is no exception.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 28, 2021)

Do you recall that old saying, "when life hands you lemons, make lemonade"? We are winemakers, we don't do that.

We make Skeeter Pee!

It's obvious the Universe is prompting you to make wine. Don't fight it, your destiny is your destiny!  

I agree with @Scooter68 that the grape concentrate is not needed. However, if you're into experimentation, make 2 identical batches of Blackberry, adding the concentrate to one. The differences in outcome may be striking. Or it may be unnoticeable. Either way, it's an interesting experiment.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 28, 2021)

I am terrified to ask what skeeter pee is


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## winemaker81 (Jun 28, 2021)

Skeeter Pee is wine made from lemon juice. There is a forum dedicated to it.





__





Skeeter Pee


Thanks Lon!




www.winemakingtalk.com





When you have time, look at the General winemaking forum. Also, there are forums dedicated to Equipment & Sanitation plus Bottles, Labels, & Corks. Lots of good stuff!


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 28, 2021)

I will never not devote my lemons to my homemade Limoncello 

Lemon wine sounds......completely bizarre


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## winemaker81 (Jun 28, 2021)

I've never had Skeeter Pee. It is essentially a hard lemonade.

I make limoncello as well, plus limecello, and I've made both orange and cherry brandies (using cheap cognac).

Growing up, my dad always kept apricot brandy in the house. I've made it with extracts, but have an idea for steeping dried apricots in brandy or cognac. There's always something more to try making!


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## Scooter68 (Jun 28, 2021)

Here's another interesting wine idea, for down the road some day. Pineapple-Mango - A great refreshing summertime wine. The mango is a background flavor booster but Pineapple will always dominate. It's also a early drinker - I've had batches totally ready to bottle in 6 months or less. Only thing I'll recommend - do NOT use any kind of canned pineapple. Use frozen or cut up fresh. Mangos are really messy so this is wine that requires a bit of work but the reward is really great. It's easy for someone to mistake it for a wine cooler by the name, until they taste it.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 28, 2021)

Ooooh I bet that is AMAZING in a Sangria


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 29, 2021)

Berrylicious update: in the end it took 4kg of sugar to get my 1.100 sg. I just adjusted my ph which was too low and am going to pitch my yeast now.  I think this wine is going to be fabulous. 

I hope


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## Ijsbiertje (Jun 29, 2021)

Hi. I’ve been reading this tread because I’m also trying to make some strawberry wine for the first time Just a small batch to get a hang of it. I only used strawberry. No water.
I mashed fresh strawberries. Then I froze them. A couple days later I thawed them. Once the temperature of the must was about 12 degrees Celsius I added some pectic enzyme and let that do it’s work for 12h. Then I added some sulphite and waited for 12h.
It was difficult to read the hydrometer because of the fruit partikels ik the must. I guess I measured about 1022 SG.
I set the goal at 1092 SG. Took the refractometer and added sugar till about 22,5 brix. I hope I was about right on this conversion 
Then I added some yeast nutrients and put in the yeast starter. I also used Lalvin 71b
This was yesterday around 11pm. This morning a little cap had formed in the middle of the bucket and it smelled yeasty. I gave it a stir. At about 5pm there was a cap covering the whole bucket. Again I pushed the cap down into the must. I just measured the temperature of the must and it is about 25 degrees Celsius. I’m trying to cool it down a little in the fridge till about 19 degrees. Then I will remove it from the fridge and put the bucket on a colder spot on the ground. I guess 25 degrees is too hot and the yeast will blow trough all the sugars in a few days… 
I hope I didn’t make big mistakes already. 
I’m wondering when I should remove the cap (foamy fruit-parts) from the must? Should I wait to remove this until I measure about an SG of 1020 and I transfer the must to a carboy? Or do I remove this sooner?

Thank you


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## Cherry Puffling (Jun 29, 2021)

Wow I didn't know you could make wine without water  

Hopefully one of the experts here can assist you, this is way above my pay grade


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## Darrell Hawley (Jun 29, 2021)

Scooter68 said:


> Here's another interesting wine idea, for down the road some day. Pineapple-Mango - A great refreshing summertime wine. The mango is a background flavor booster but Pineapple will always dominate. It's also a early drinker - I've had batches totally ready to bottle in 6 months or less. Only thing I'll recommend - do NOT use any kind of canned pineapple. Use frozen or cut up fresh. Mangos are really messy so this is wine that requires a bit of work but the reward is really great. It's easy for someone to mistake it for a wine cooler by the name, until they taste it.


Happened to see in the local market a "Tropical" in the frozen fruit section. Pineapple, mango and papayas (I think they were 4lbs and used 3 bags. Added some canned pineapple juice and mango nectar to the batch. Tasted pretty good and will make it again.


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## winemaker81 (Jun 29, 2021)

@Ijsbiertje, you're better off starting a new thread for your questions. This is a forum -- we go off on tangents more than we stay on topic -- but you'll get better attention with your own thread. Folks that have no interest in this topic will ignore updates, whereas a new thread might catch their attention. There are a LOT of experienced winemakers who happily help the newbies.

That said ... *Get the wine out of the fridge!* I'll explain why ...

Overall, everything you did is fine -- EXCEPT -- chilling the wine. 25 C is NOT a problem and is a common temperature for in-process ferments. Commercial yeast can handle 40 C, although we don't recommend it as the flavor and aroma may be negatively affected.

In general, I recommend beginners ferment in the 22-26 C range to initiate and maintain a good fermentation.

FYI - grapes are the yardstick for winemaking as they contain the water, sugar, acid, and flavorings all in one little round ball. Fruit wines (everything except grapes) don't have everything, especially water. Making wine from just the fruit with no water added doesn't work for most fruit -- apples are an exception as apple juice works great. So you're starting with a difficult situation. This doesn't mean it can't work, but in the future I suggest you look for recipes, and if you are uncertain, ask questions in the Country Wines forum.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 1, 2021)

Making wine with or without water is one of those debate topics on here. There are basically 2 schools of thought:
1) NEVER add water to your juice
2) Add water to a predetermined poundage of fruit to bring up the volume to the desired starting level.
(AND there are any number of variations on the above.)

Of course the other issue is that some fruit will just never produce enough liquid to make wine unless you go to some crazy amounts of fruit.

Some fruit, elderberry is a common example, is often made by steam extraction of juice, that's yet another approach.

Some folks like their country fruit wine with a lighter flavor (They fall into number 2) above and may use as little as 2-3 pounds of some fruit.

Personally I like to strike a reasonable balance so I fall into group 2) Above but try to keep that water addition to a minimum. (Example: I use 6-7 lbs of blueberries per gallon on finished wine. BUT with peaches I use only enough water to dissolve the sugar I add to the peaches. 

One thing I would suggest is if you are going for a high ABV (anything 14% or above, you are going to be more likely to enjoy a wine with a higher amount of fruit in it and probably a little sweeter wine too. Not always though - My latest batch of Blackberry wine is unsweetened at 16.58% ABV and at only 4 months of age is great. I normally back-sweeten all my wines but this one may be the exception because the flavor is so strong. It was made from a commercially prepared juice so there is no way to measure how many pounds of fruit are in it.

*BOTTOM LINE: There is no hard fast rule (YAY !!! ) What matters is getting to the result you like*.


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## Scooter68 (Jul 1, 2021)

Darrell Hawley said:


> Happened to see in the local market a "Tropical" in the frozen fruit section. Pineapple, mango and papayas (I think they were 4lbs and used 3 bags. Added some canned pineapple juice and mango nectar to the batch. Tasted pretty good and will make it again.



Sounds like a crowd pleaser there!


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 1, 2021)

The amount of knowledge I am absorbing from you guys is incredible.  You are all amazing!


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 4, 2021)

winemaker81 said:


> With cleansed/sanitized spoon, stir vigorously for *5 minutes*, changing directions every 20 seconds.


Hey soooooo question....when did you last degas by hand?  Did you forget the trauma? Is it like women when they give birth and like a year later they're like "ahhh it wasn't so bad! Labour just flew by"...??? 

Asking for a friend. 

Degassing took me 75 mins.  Like me, she was a gassy b**ch. 

R.I.P arms. I think I inadvertently found a cure for bingo wings tho. 

Joking aside, I found some ways online to test that it's degassed and she passed them, so I've added the Kieselsol. Package (and you) say to wait an hour so that's what I am doing. When I've added the Chitosan I'll rack her back into demijohns and then I guess the waiting begins? I need to go back and read everything again.


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## sour_grapes (Jul 4, 2021)

Ooops, I meant to post on a different thread.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 4, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Ooops, I meant to post on a different thread.


It was still funny


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## winemaker81 (Jul 4, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> Hey soooooo question....when did you last degas by hand?


15+ years ago. I purchased a drill mounted stirring rod and have NOT looked back.

75 minutes? You are a serious glutton for punishment!!!

I've never tested for CO2. I stirred for 5 minutes, changing directions every 30 seconds. The wine continues to emit CO2, possibly for a couple of days, but the agitation kicks the process into high gear. With the drill mounted stirring rod it's a couple of minutes -- I don't use a watch, so it's entirely possible it's only 20 seconds per iteration. IME the wine degases quite quickly with regard to non-degassing.

Your usage of kieselsol/chitosan is what I recommended. You will probably see results within an hour -- let the wine rest for a week to let the sediment compact, before racking.

BTW, I've never experienced childbirth, although I was present for the conception & delivery of both sons. The start is far more pleasant for all involved than the finish. In my defense, I've experienced kidney stones twice and strongly recommend against it.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 4, 2021)

When it still had a ton of gas after five minutes I went hunting online and folks were saying as much as an hour by hand so I just went for it. I was scared the finings wouldn't work if I didn't  gotta do whatcha gotta do and what I did after was immediately order a wand for my drill  #neveragain 

As per finings, I bought the ones recommended by the recipe when I first picked up everything I needed but he didnt really show the results of the finings and I was so shocked by how quickly there was more sediment than there was when I racked after letting it just sit for 2 weeks! 

It was crazy. How long do you reckon I should let it compact for before I rack again?

Speaking of conserving as much wine as possible, I'm a little worried about headspace, and the wine oxidizing if I end up with too much, but I haven't any extra wine to top up the demijohns with...  not really sure what to do about it, I can't really go buy a bunch of 1L demijohns right now, hubby is already moaning about my expenditures  how much headspace is too much? I mean when does oxidation become a real threat?


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## winemaker81 (Jul 4, 2021)

Searching online is a mixed bag -- folks that sound like they know what they are doing are merely convincing, not experienced. [Yeah, I know, I'm some faceless dude on the net telling you want to do ....]

Fining agents can do amazing things! Also keep in mind that CO2 keeps solids suspended, so what you are seeing is a mixture of the two actions, degassing and fining.

"How long?" is a tough question. Because every wine is different, there's no single answer that works.

Watch the wine. If necessary, mark the sediment line with a grease pencil or other wipeable marker. Sediment will build up quickly over a 1 to 5 day period (normally), then it will compact. Let it go 3 to 5 days, or until the sediment level doesn't decrease for a couple of days. The total duration can be more than 2 week, but is normally less.

Headspace is another toughy. The ratio of headspace to wine volume has a lot to do with it. For a 4 liter jug? I'd want the wine within 3 to 5 cm of the stopper.

Contrary to common belief, oxidation does not happen instantaneously. It's a factor of headspace volume vs wine volume AND time. A week or two of a larger headspace is probably not a problem. That said, I keep headspace to a minimum as much as is feasible.

You can top with white wine -- anything lightly flavored will do.

I purchase Carlo Rossi (California) jug wines in 4 liter jugs. The wine is cheap and makes great cooking wine, and I keep the jugs. I also have a large collection of 1.5 liter, 750 ml, 375 ml, and smaller bottles for topup wine. While it doesn't help now, plan all batches for your container size. If you have a 4 liter jug, plan 6 liters of wine and keep the excess in smaller bottles.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 4, 2021)

I've a bottle of a very fruity and mild white that should do the trick, it's a cooking wine-- we don't typically drink white-- but it's good quality. Thank you for the suggestion  It's hard to calculate what you will need when you are just getting started, and I haven't amassed a collection of containers yet. Working on it  

How will I know when the wine is ready to be back sweetened and bottled? I know I have a couple more rackings first, but what is the sign post that says "ok, bottle me now"? Is it just when there's been no new sediment for x amount of time?


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## Scooter68 (Jul 4, 2021)

Just to be a little contrary. I tried "degassing" Once and decided Hmmm That's work OR I can just let it age and de-gas all on it's own. Meanwhile I can be working on another batch, making labels etc. That's just what works for me.


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## winemaker81 (Jul 4, 2021)

At this time I consider 4 months to be the minimum time between start and bottling. The wine has to be stable and clear.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 7, 2021)

Today I learned to make sure the #$%@ing spigot is closed all the way when straining off your must into a bucket that has one.


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## winemaker81 (Jul 7, 2021)

How much did you lose?


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 7, 2021)

About 3/4 of a litre. It could have been worse but I'm still salty  I also caught my bloody sleeve on it later on and opened it a bit by accident-- guess who will be running a second syphon hose from the spigot into a sanitised second container as a failsafe in the future?? #LearningTheHardWay 

I can laugh about it now but yikes.


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## BernardSmith (Jul 7, 2021)

Cherry Puffling said:


> Today I learned to make sure the #$%@ing spigot is closed all the way when straining off your must into a bucket that has one.



One thing I do is clearly mark on my plastic buckets which side is open and which is closed. In the heat of the moment it is easy to forget.


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## Cherry Puffling (Jul 7, 2021)

BernardSmith said:


> One thing I do is clearly mark on my plastic buckets which side is open and which is closed. In the heat of the moment it is easy to forget.


That's a really good idea. I shall attack that bucket with a sharpie later. I did have it shut to begin with, I checked after sanitizing but I must have caught it on my sleeve or something at some point like I did later on. It was my own stupid fault for not double checking immediately before I started but the bucket was turned the other way around and I just forgot all about the spigot until I saw a big lake of blood red on the floor.

I may have to call this mixed berry blend Blood Wine, it did literally look like a pool of blood. I'm a trekkie, it's not without its appeal.  though my husband might find it tedious if I'm overcome with urges to scream "IwlIj jachjaj!!" at him every time I serve it. (Klingon for "Cheers!" ...literal translation is “May your blood scream”)


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## Cherry Puffling (Sep 5, 2021)

Just wanted to update you guys, I just backsweetened and bottled the strawberry wine and I'm so happy with it, it tastes fantastic! Thank you so much for all your help 

I also just racked the bloodwine, wlIj jachjaj! It's also tasting great! I've also got elderberry wine in the fermenter and am about to start a blackberry port  There's no stopping me now


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## Retired teacher (Sep 6, 2021)

Looks great!


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## Hwaynemeares (Apr 4, 2022)

Cherry Puffling said:


> Yeah. I think I will just back sweeten with a little simple syrup when the time comes and leave the colour alone. It's just a bit disappointing, I was hoping the colour would stay nearer to what I first had, but then, maybe it will darken a little once it's cleared and had time to age.
> 
> 
> This is so true. I hate being caught out by the unexpected and having to panic-fix things.


I know this thread is a year old but, i have the same question. How did you add color? I've read adding non sweet kool aid mix of the flavor helps.


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## Rice_Guy (Apr 5, 2022)

My favorite red color is black raspberry at about 5%
I had it in the freezer so put in aronia at about 5% last year
One winery out from Milwaukee has a natural strawberry color, they ferment only the juice from frozen strawberries a neighbor bakery generates.


Hwaynemeares said:


> thread is a year old but. How did you add color? read adding non sweet kool aid


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## Scooter68 (Apr 12, 2022)

whatever method works for you and you feel comfortable using. I assume you wont be serving it to children so food color number 40 would even be ok.


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## Hwaynemeares (Apr 12, 2022)

Scooter68 said:


> whatever method works for you and you feel comfortable using. I assume you wont be serving it to children so food color number 40 would even be ok.


I might but, my children are in thier 30s...lol. I tried a little koolaide in a glass of store bought strawberry wine. It was terrible. I'll probably just leave it orangey-pink.


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## Rice_Guy (Apr 13, 2022)

Well if they are in their thirties you probably have a bottle of Monin strawberry syrup (or Tonie) on the shelf. ,,, Good color/ no solids and very natural berry flavor, ,,, and shelf stable


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## Scooter68 (Apr 13, 2022)

A few dark sweet cherries (15-20) would probably help too. remove the pits and crush well. run the juice through a filter for solids.


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