# Please help total beginner



## johnny_newbie (Jan 8, 2014)

Hello to everyone

Im not sure if there is anyone willing to offer any support but I thought I would give it a try.

Basically I have 20 acres of land in a Island in the Pacific Islands and am wanting to know if the tropical climate would support the growth of good healthy grapes as I am totally new to this and wanting to know if there is this posibility.

I have no experience in Viticulture but if there I get a bit of support I will volunteer to work on a vineyard in new zealand for a year and get some experience but before I do that I want to know if anyone could tell me if I could make a profit.

The reason I want to do this is because no one is producing wine in Tonga and I want to be a first, I am willing to put in the hard yards before this happens. 

Any advice would be helpful?

Also the land is 1 km from the sea which i dont know if it could affect the growth and also the land has rich nutrient soil which has previously grown root vegetables (sweet potato/taro)


----------



## grapeman (Jan 8, 2014)

Since you would be the first to do this, there is no real way of knowing if it would work or not. To determine this you need all the climatological data you can get such as high and low temperatures as well as average temperature, number of growing degree days, frost free growing period, latitude and longitude would help, amount of total precipitation and average precipitation per month. Then you should know the soil type and nutrients in it and any excess salt. It sounds daunting to be the first there, but even putting in a small vineyard will give you an idea if it would work or not. 

Welcome and good luck researching this.


----------



## djrockinsteve (Jan 8, 2014)

Welcome and best of luck on your new endeavor. Is there some form of agriculture dept. there you could get insight into quality of soil and weather not to mention diseases?

Grapeman's right being a pioneer you don't know what to expect. It takes years for vines to mature yet starting before fully researching everything could prove to be a waste of resources. 

I would see what other fruits are grown there, what nutrients they require and how well they do in that soil. 

Let us know. We would love to help you in your project. There are many people on here with a wide range of knowledge. 

Welcome again.


----------



## salcoco (Jan 8, 2014)

Possibly a contact at UC Davis could contribute. Try there web site for a contact.


----------



## GrandpasFootsteps (Jan 8, 2014)

This is one of the coolest questions I've seen posted on our forum. I want some Tongan wine.


----------



## Deezil (Jan 8, 2014)

Some time spent in New Zealand wouldn't hurt; it may give you a better insight as to what grape varieties might work.

Grapeman is full of great suggestions (per usual), as you really need the information about the weather to know what types of grapes may even stand a chance. 

Have you made wine before? With seasonal fruits or fruits in abundance on the island? 

Done any checking into the legality of making wine, on the island? 

You may also find luck, if the weather information is lacking for Tonga itself, in comparing your area to a region of New Zealand or Austrailia, and running with those numbers/that set of data (it's better than nothing); I'm not sure how much work the Tongan government has put into understanding local agriculture, where as they probably put more stake/money into fishing or tourism

Keep us posted; definitely exciting!


----------



## blumentopferde (Jan 8, 2014)

@johnny_newbie

I've looked up Tonga, and wow, this is really at the world's end!

It seems like a tropical island, with high temperature, high air humidity and lots of rainfall to me. Also there's most probably no significant seasonal change.

So you will face a lot of challenges!
- The vines will be prone to funghal diseases due to the high moisture
- Some varieties may not develop fruit sets due to the high rainfall
- You will have to emulate a seasonal change, otherwise the vines will just grow and grow and develop fruits scattered throughout the year.

But in spite of these challenges it is not impossible! Have a research on tropical winemaking. I've heard of wineyards in Thailand and other tropical countries. See what they grow, that might work at your place as well! Some wineries in South-east asia even produce wine from native asian wine plants that should be better adopted to the climate.

There are also some advantages:
- You don't risk any kind of frost damage.
- There is no limitation in growing degree days at all.
- You could start the season whenever it suits to you, you could even have two yields in one year!


That sounds like an amazing experiment, and I really hope to see the story continue!


----------



## REDRUM (Jan 8, 2014)

Awesome! Keen to hear how this goes for you!

Generally I would say that the closer to the equator you get, the greater elevation above sea level you need in order to get the diurnal temperature fluctuations you need to grow good-quality grapes. Lack of seasonal fluctuation is a major problem too. It is true that some grapes are grown in tropical latitudes (Thailand, Brazil, etc) but I would imagine this would USUALLY involve finding sites at altitude, and where the topography removes some of the issues with humidity. I reckon this would be problematic in Tonga!! Nutrient-rich soil might also be an issue, when there is lots of moisture and lots of rainfall it could be better to have poor, well-drained soil. Growers can do some interesting things to deal with the pitfalls of tropical viticulture - like having two annual harvests: http://istw.cnpuv.embrapa.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ITC.2012.pdf

I'm a big believer in matching the right grape to the right place, so you would really need to find a variety appropriate to tropical viticulture.. Interestingly, I found this 'Symposium on Tropical Wines' which is being held in Brisbane later this year: http://www.ihc2014.org/symposium_10.html - it would DEFINITELY be worth keeping an eye on some of the papers that come out of this.

I'm from Queensland originally (the tropical/subtropical NE state of Australia - some areas are similar climatically to many South Pacific islands, and at a similar latitude) and to be honest there is very little commercial wine production there, outside of inland areas in the south of the state that are drier in summer, cooler in winter, and sit at higher altitudes.

I would also be tempted to look into other crops that might suit the conditions better (especially if you're keen to make it a profitable enterprise) ... like coffee, or the Pacific Islands' intoxicating beverage of choice, Kava! I have spent some time in Vanuatu and the locals approach kava as the French do approach wine... it's definitely a 'terroir' product, people can tell you all about the different characteristics of kava from different parts of different islands, and furthermore how the different cultural traditions associated with growing and processing it result in different end products .... interesting stuff! (sorry to go off topic)


----------



## vernsgal (Jan 8, 2014)

GrandpasFootsteps said:


> This is one of the coolest questions I've seen posted on our forum. I want some Tongan wine.


 I totally agree with GrandpasFootsteps! Welcome to the forum. I look forward to reading more from you


----------



## blumentopferde (Jan 8, 2014)

One more challenge that will emerge:
There seem to be rootstocks, grape varieties and sprays that are suitable for tropical winemaking. The biggest challenge will be to get hold of them! You'd probably have to import most, if not all of your equipment, and that might become tricky, especially with plants!


----------



## johnny_newbie (Jan 9, 2014)

Im so overwhelmed and want to thank all of you for your advice. I will let you all know the experience I have with wine, what I have researched so far and what my first plan of attack would be.

So im in my mid 20s and my father has kindly passed down this land to me which has grown some of tongas best taros and sweet potato and is also surrounded by many coconut, mango, papaya and guava trees. I find that very boring so I looked into other ways of benefiting from the land and growing grapes has really caught my attention as it is new and challenging and I want to set a other pathways for tongan farmers. It has always been an idea but as 2014 came i thought I better look into it

I've fiddled around with wine kits and experimented making wine from mango and banana which tonga has plenty of but nothing much other than that and no experience of growing grapes at all.

I have looked into winemakers who produce tropical wines made in hawaii, phillipines and thailand which all have very similiar climates, with hawaii aand tahiti having the most similiar climate and have noticed the varieties that do and dont do well. But one thing those islands do have that tongatapu doesnt is ground elevation.

Tongan farming is based on trial and error as there is a lack of information and technology but that is soon changing.

That island of tongatapu which my land is on is totally flat with a only a few wills with the highest being around 30 meters above sea level.

I am in awaitng response from the Tongan Government in regards to law around prod wine/alcohol on the island. There is a brewery on the island which produces an average beer so there shouldnt be much to do with law regarding producing wine.

My plan I have at the moment which would most likely change after thorough research is to basically grow a few varieties and select the few that go well from there.

Could anyone tell me once I get a hold of climatology data and hopefully soil data, is it easy to determine what grows well or would it be a good idea to grow a small variety (based on other similiar tropical islands)

I will have to import most equipment and plants/seeds, tonga does not have tight border restrictions and being third world it is easy to slip customs a bit to look the other way but ill tackle that once i finish conducting core research


----------



## blumentopferde (Jan 9, 2014)

johnny_newbie said:


> So im in my mid 20s and my father has kindly passed down this land to me which has grown some of tongas best taros and sweet potato and is also surrounded by many coconut, mango, papaya and guava trees.


I wouldn't focus solely on grapes. First it takes a few years to establish a wineyard, second you don't know how well it is going to work, so I'd rather back it up with some fruits you know that do well! Even if it is just a hobby for you and you don't need the money from agricultural production, you could still use these other fruits to experiment in winemaking.




> I have looked into winemakers who produce tropical wines made in hawaii, phillipines and thailand which all have very similiar climates, with hawaii aand tahiti having the most similiar climate and have noticed the varieties that do and dont do well. But one thing those islands do have that tongatapu doesnt is ground elevation.


Great! So I you probably already know more about tropical winemaking than we do 
The higher the ground elevation, the cooler the climate. So maybe your climate is even more extreme than the climate in other tropical wineyards...
You'll find out, if it works! By trial and error... 




> Could anyone tell me once I get a hold of climatology data and hopefully soil data, is it easy to determine what grows well or would it be a good idea to grow a small variety (based on other similiar tropical islands)


I don't think that there are many members with experience in tropical winemaling in this forum, if any! I'd rather stick to what works on other tropical islands. I'd also have a research on rootstocks. I've heard about a brazilian rootstock variety that should be suitable for tropical climates!



> I will have to import most equipment and plants/seeds, tonga does not have tight border restrictions and being third world it is easy to slip customs a bit to look the other way but ill tackle that once i finish conducting core research


So I was thinking too much like a Westerner. In Europe it would be pretty much impossible to import plants. You'd have smuggle them...
Just make sure to get certified, disease free plant material. You don't want to introduce a new disease in Tonga!


----------



## bigdrums2 (Jan 16, 2014)

Try some muscadines, or some if the varieties developed by Florida state university. Kava sounds like a great potential crop too. Good luck!


----------



## theTheme (Jan 17, 2014)

I've been doing similar research for growing grapes in Louisiana (some day, way off). One interesting author that was recommended to me is Joseph L. Fennell. His writings on tropical grape varieties span from about 1940-50 concentrated primarily in Costa Rica. It's good info, and pretty entertaining. To start his research, he basically went bushwhacking in the jungle to find native grapes, then brought them back and tried to cultivate them.

You can find a good bibliography here. Please keep posting as you find out new information and get your venture off the ground. I've very interested to hear how it turns out.


----------



## kevinlfifer (Jan 17, 2014)

I would contact Cornell Univ and see if they would run some soil analysis and such. They are one of the few Universities with a Viticulture program.

http://www.cornell.edu/search/?q=Viticulture&tab=


----------



## dwhill40 (Feb 12, 2014)

I recently ordered a supposedly disease resistant bunch grape muscadine hybrid developed in Florida called southern home. It will be interesting to see what kind of flavor it can produce. It appears to be a large black grape with up to 18% sugar. If it can grow in Florida....


----------

