# MLF- First Time



## Matty_Kay (Feb 26, 2014)

Ok, so I am strongly considering MLF on a 5 gallon batch of Merlot. I have read alot about it but this will be my first time so I want to try and make the process as simple and fool-proof as possible, I hope.

Right now, my Merlot is in secondary fermentation racked to a 5 gal carboy with a SG of about 1.005. Ph is 3.4. Temp is 70.

I was going to use Viniflora Oenos Malo-Lactic (1.5g dry) as my culture.

The instructions seem simple, dump in stir and wait for MLF to complete. 

So, her are my questions:

1. Is there anything else I should consider to help achieve a successful MLF?
2. What testing equipment is necessary to track MLF and show when complete?
3. Do I need additional MLB nutrients with this strand of MLB?
4. I have 1/2 gal. jug also finishing up fermentation when I racked, should I add some of the MLB to the 1/2 gallon jug as well? Plan was to use it for topping off, when necessary.

Any other info/advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated.


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## GreginND (Feb 26, 2014)

1. Keep it at 70.
2. A paper chromatography kit.
3. Nutrients are always a good idea. Opti-malo plus is what I use.
4. It wouldn't hurt. If you don't you will be adding the malic acid back to your bulk when you top off and it will continue MLF. So that could prolong the process.

Ideally you want MLF to complete sooner rather than later because you can't add sulfites until it is complete. The longer the process takes, the more risk you have of spoilage or oxidation with unprotected wine.


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 26, 2014)

I agree with Greg, and I'd like to add, if you are inoculating 5 or 6 gallons of wine, I'd highly recommend using Bacchus MLB, of inoculating 20 or so gallons, I would use Lalvin VP41, this is a real work horse strain of MLB, a lot of success using this, also, along with the Opti-malo MLB nutrient, I'd consider getting Acti-Ml, a Malolactic bacteria hydrating nutrient, you'll have a great MLF!
If you have any questions regarding the process, before, during or after MLF, do not hesitate to post or shoot a private message, I'd be happy to help.


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## Matty_Kay (Feb 26, 2014)

Thanks guys, one other quick question. Both my carboy and half gallon jug are filled to the base of the neck. Should I top off a little more before mlf or will a sulphited commercial wine inhibit mlf?


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## GreginND (Feb 26, 2014)

You should top off. I don't think the amount of sulfites introduced from a commercial wine being used to top up would be significant enough to cause any problems.


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## OldCanalBrewing (Feb 28, 2014)

I want to try an MLF in my next buckets just to learn the process. However, if I let them bulk age properly and cleanly, do I need to even bother with an MLF? My last buckets were bulk aged for 7 months and taste fine (execpt a moscato). Should they go through MLF on their own while bulk aging?

Thanks


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## JohnT (Feb 28, 2014)

+1 on what everybody else has said... 

Do you know how much K-Meta you have added? Better yet, do you know what your current SO2 level is. 

Most MLF bacteria are very sensitive to k-meta. I believe that any level above 30 ppm can cause you problems in getting your MLB to take hold.


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## Matty_Kay (Feb 28, 2014)

I have yet to sulphite, wine still finishing up fermentation.

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## JohnT (Feb 28, 2014)

ok, good. 

You should be fine then.


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## Matty_Kay (Mar 2, 2014)

Well, this afternoon I added the MLB as well as Opti-Mali plus nutrient. I guess now I wait and hopefully mlf takes off. Will check progress in a few weeks. Thanks all for the sound input and advice!

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## nucjd (Mar 2, 2014)

Excellent initial post and responses. I will be putting this data away in my brain for my harvest this fall.


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## Matty_Kay (Mar 23, 2014)

Just a quick update and follow-up questions- my mlf has taken off without any issues, I tested for 1st time using chromatography test and the 5 gallons of merlot is about half way to 3/4 done and the 1/2 gallon of top up merlot I also put through mlf is about done. My question is should I rack the half gallon of merlot I plan on using to top up or simply add k-meta to stabilize and leave it in the half gallon jug it is currently in without racking. Also, do you keep your top off wine in the fridge or leave it out. Thanks.

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## GreginND (Mar 23, 2014)

I leave mine out - no problem if it is topped up and under airlock. 

I don't think I would add k-meta now. I'd just leave it and when your larger batch finishes rack them both into one container and add your metabisulfite then. It should be ok. 

Also, I would not rush it - chromatography is not that sensitive so even if you see the spot for the malic acid gone, there could still be a little bit left. Be patient and give it time to really finish up.

Sounds like things are going perfectly for you. Keep us updated!


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## Matty_Kay (Mar 23, 2014)

Thanks Greg, I'm in no rush at all so just gonna sit and wait for mlf to complete. Thanks!

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## sdelli (Mar 24, 2014)

Matty_Kay said:


> Just a quick update and follow-up questions- my mlf has taken off without any issues, I tested for 1st time using chromatography test and the 5 gallons of merlot is about half way to 3/4 done and the 1/2 gallon of top up merlot I also put through mlf is about done. My question is should I rack the half gallon of merlot I plan on using to top up or simply add k-meta to stabilize and leave it in the half gallon jug it is currently in without racking. Also, do you keep your top off wine in the fridge or leave it out. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Wine Making mobile app




mlf usually takes 5 to 8 weeks..... Be patient. I have a batch that is almost 5 weeks old and still bubbling strong! It will go for at least two more weeks... Patience.... Patience....


Sam


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## Pumpkinman (Mar 24, 2014)

MLF can take months to complete, as long as the MLF is active there is nothing to worry about, I have 4, 6 gallon carboys that have been going through MLF for 5 months, the temps are cooler in my cellar so i'm not worried about spoiling. 
I've run 3 Chromatography tests over the course of the 5 months, MLF has been progressing slower than normal, but progressing, they are 1/2 way or more complete. I've tasted small samples every time I test them, and they are amazing right now, I cannot wait to taste the final product!
These 4 carboys wont be racked into the barrels for a little over 6 more months, so there isn't any major rush.


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## Matty_Kay (Apr 5, 2014)

Attached is a chromatography test at 5 weeks of my merlot. The half gallon looks pretty close if not done while the 5 gallons are getting there. Should I do anything to the 5 gal batch to speed up, like stir the lees or add a small dose of MLB nutrient?


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## sdelli (Apr 5, 2014)

Nope.... Patience! Mine is now at 6 1/2 weeks with another week to go. Looks like your 1 gallon has one more week... The 5 gallon has two or three more... Next week rack the one gallon to another jug and add a little kmeta... Probably no more then 1 gram. Then when you rack the 5 gallon carboy add kmeta to it... Add the 1 gallon jug to the 5 gallon carboy and pull 1 gallon out of the 5 gallon carboy for the jug. This way you get a mix. Should think about adding a 6 gallon carboy to the family.... What strain did you use?


Sam


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## Matty_Kay (Apr 5, 2014)

I used viniflora oenos, so far so good. Thanks for the sound advice, Sam, much appreciated.


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## tmmii (Apr 8, 2014)

So if I've added any kmeta, mlf won't work?


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## grapeman (Apr 8, 2014)

That depends on the concentration you added. Some types will withstand higher levels than others.


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## tmmii (Apr 8, 2014)

1/4 tsp twice over 6 months and this is what I have 


Fall Chardonnay juice 


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## grapeman (Apr 8, 2014)

You can give it a try, but it might not work because of the sulfite. I think you would have done better to treat it much sooner. How does it taste without it? I assume you are after a buttery chardonnay taste instead of a nice fruit forward one.


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## tmmii (Apr 8, 2014)

It's pretty tart, was trying to mellow it down. 


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## sdelli (Apr 8, 2014)

tmmii said:


> So if I've added any kmeta, mlf won't work?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Depends how much you added and how much the strain you used can tolerate.


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## grapeman (Apr 8, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Depends how much you added and how much the strain you used can tolerate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


 
Now why didn't I say that? Oh , wait, I did!  LOL


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## sdelli (Apr 8, 2014)

grapeman said:


> Now why didn't I say that? Oh , wait, I did!  LOL




Sorry.... Didn't see your response. Sometimes I forget to hit update on the forum first and only see some of the feeds....


Sam


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## sdelli (Apr 8, 2014)

tmmii said:


> It's pretty tart, was trying to mellow it down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




So here is something to add that nobody suggested.... If you feel it has a tart taste let's hear what your ph and ta levels are.... Mlf will not fix a high acid level. 


Sam


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## Matty_Kay (Apr 27, 2014)

Hey everyone, looking for some advice as to whether or not it looks my mlf is complete on my merlot. It's been going through mlf for 8 weeks. Attached are my chromatography test results. Does this look complete?


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## sdelli (Apr 27, 2014)

Probably the best your gona get it..... I have played with this last trace for weeks and it seems to always stay a little... So my vote is yes...


Sam


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## Matty_Kay (Apr 28, 2014)

Thanks Sam. Gonna rack and add k-meta tonight. Most importantly, sneak a taste as well!


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