# My first wine ever!



## mennyg19 (Jul 7, 2016)

So, I got onto this forum a couple of weeks ago, and I feel like I've read enough to go ahead and jump in. 
So I live in Israel. No Amazon.com and no wine supply stores around me. So I placed an order today with the one wine supply store I found online. He's a nice guy and speaks English fluently. Makes it easier to communicate, even though I do speak a bit of Hebrew. 
My first wine will be DangerDave's DragonBlood. So here's my order list. He delivers to Jerusalem twice a week and the next time is on Monday:
2 25 liter carboys
1 25 liter fermenting bucket
1 packet of yeast (gotta be kosher, so that's what I got)
Pectic Enzyme
Airlock with bung (or whatever that sealing thing is called)
Siphon tubing
Hydrometer
Potassium metabisulfite 
Potassium sorbate 

The recipe calls for clearing agents, yeast nutrients and yeast energizer. He doesn't have any of those that are kosher, and said they shouldn't ruin the wine that much, it just may take longer for the wine to clear. He said to use egg whites as a clearing agent, and said Google would have instructions on how to use it. 

The recipe also calls for 6 pounds of mixed berries. A neighbor of mins sells frozen mixed berry bags that are a kilogram each, which is about 2.2 pounds, so 3 of those should be good. Would adding the last .6 of a pound adversely affect the wine or will it just have a stronger flavor to it?

Also, if anyone has any tips on how to make this wine amazing and easier, I would appreciate it! And if I left anything out of the order let me know please so I can order it and get it on Monday.

Thanks,
MennyG


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## DoctorCAD (Jul 7, 2016)

The more fruit, the better!


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## Johnd (Jul 7, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> So, I got onto this forum a couple of weeks ago, and I feel like I've read enough to go ahead and jump in.
> So I live in Israel. No Amazon.com and no wine supply stores around me. So I placed an order today with the one wine supply store I found online. He's a nice guy and speaks English fluently. Makes it easier to communicate, even though I do speak a bit of Hebrew.
> My first wine will be DangerDave's DragonBlood. So here's my order list. He delivers to Jerusalem twice a week and the next time is on Monday:
> 2 25 liter carboys
> ...



You might be little tight in that size fermenter, with 6 gallons of liquid plus the fruit. A strainer bag for the fruit will make separating it from the wine easier when the time comes. A long food grade spoon to stir with is handy. Egg whites will work as a fining agent, I think its less than the white of one egg for 6 gallons, that should be pretty easy to find in Israel. 

As for the recipe, use all of the fruit. When I do this type of wine, I use eight pounds of each of the fruits (blackberry, blueberry, raspberry) for a total of 24 pounds of fruit. 

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## Spikedlemon (Jul 7, 2016)

Not being fully versed on my Kosher requirements: I cannot see Bentonite crossing a line (as it is clay) as a clarifier. It should speed you along.

You're absolutely right, however, that time will clear a wine.

I know people have talked about alternate yeast nutrients/energizers so I'll leave that to those that have tried it.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 7, 2016)

Johnd said:


> You might be little tight in that size fermenter, with 6 gallons of liquid plus the fruit.


25 liters is 6.6 gallons. I saw someone posted on Daves thread that he put in less water and it came out better. Wont be putting in that much less water, but that's the biggest size he has (unless I buy one of those huge plastic barrels)



Johnd said:


> A strainer bag for the fruit will make separating it from the wine easier when the time comes.



Forgot to mention that this is on my list also. I ordered this.


Johnd said:


> A long food grade spoon to stir with is handy.



Good idea, can't use anything that's in my kitchen?


Johnd said:


> Egg whites will work as a fining agent, I think its less than the white of one egg for 6 gallons, that should be pretty easy to find in Israel.


  






Johnd said:


> As for the recipe, use all of the fruit. When I do this type of wine, I use eight pounds of each of the fruits (blackberry, blueberry, raspberry) for a total of 24 pounds of fruit.


 Got it, I was thinking a good strong fruit taste would be best.






Johnd said:


> A Good luck and keep us posted!




Thanks John! Will do! 
PS, I'll need a place to store all this wine, so I'm offering you again to come build me a wine cellar


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## Arne (Jul 7, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> 25 liters is 6.6 gallons. I saw someone posted on Daves thread that he put in less water and it came out better. Wont be putting in that much less water, but that's the biggest size he has (unless I buy one of those huge plastic barrels)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Stressbaby (Jul 9, 2016)

I did use a multivitamin once in an emergency as a sub for nutrient and it worked fine.


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## Julie (Jul 9, 2016)

I won't worry too much on using any type of clearing agent. I think you will be surprise on how fast it will clear on its own. You could also add a banana to the fermentation, this will add nutrient to the wine.

Good Luck and let us know how it comes out.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 11, 2016)

Got all my equipment today. Will hopefully buy the berries tonight and start wining!
I got kosher yeast (says DV10 on it, anybody have experience with it?)
Pectic enzyme
Sorbate
Sulfite
Hydrometer
Siphone tubing
Bung with airlock
Sack for fruit
Two demijohns (he sent me that instead of carboys, issue?)


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## mennyg19 (Jul 11, 2016)

Just read the instructions, DangerDave doesnt say to add k-meta to the primary, am i supposed to?


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## wineforfun (Jul 11, 2016)

No, you add kmeta after it ferments dry and you rack to secondary. Follow the instructions as written the first time making it, and you will be very pleased. After you get a batch under your belt, then you can start "tweaking" the recipe if you see fit.

Back to your fruit poundage. While it is recommended in most fruit wines to use 4-5lbs. per gallon, it is not necessary with Dragon Blood. The original recipe of 1lb. per gallon makes a very good wine. Most of us that have made DB upped it to 1.5lbs. per gallon. 
If I was you I would get one more bag from your friend for a total of 8.8lbs. and away you go.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 11, 2016)

So finished for tonight.

Here's what I have so far:
50 oz. of lemon juice
6.6 pounds of fruit (basically all berries you can think of, that's what sold in these bags here in one mix, so its strawberry, blueberry, cranberry, some currant-no blackberry or raspberry tho )
I have issues with sugar, so I used honey instead. Which officially terms my wine a melomel. So I used 4500 grams, which is about 13.5 cups, which is the equivalent of about 20 cups of sugar.
I cant use energizer, nutrient or pectic enzyme as they are not kosher (and need to be. I contacted a leading rabbi in the field). So for nutrient I threw in some banana (thanks Julie). I also read that lemon juice sometimes can work as an energizer, so hopefully that will work for me. For the pectic enzyme, I guess I'll really have to press the berries.
SG is around 1.070, I think I'll raise it tomorrow a bit with some more honey, but i ran out and it got late here.
Covered with a cloth and lid and tomorrow night is yeast time.


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## corinth (Jul 12, 2016)

*first time ever*

keep us posted and be sure if you have any questions, these folks on this forum will give you really good advice. 

sincerely,
Corinth


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## mennyg19 (Jul 12, 2016)

So I went to check up on my wine today. (Office is down the block from my apartment). Color is developing beautifully. I took a picture. Added honey and water. Have about 22 liters in there, which is about 6 gallons, including the fruit. 
Predicted alcohol level according to the hydrometer is about 12%.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 12, 2016)

Few questions:
What's wrong with using dishwashing soap for my mixing spoon, hydrometer and other stuff?
How do i use k-meta to sterilize exactly?
How do i sterilize my hands?


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## Johnd (Jul 12, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> Few questions:
> What's wrong with using dishwashing soap for my mixing spoon, hydrometer and other stuff?
> How do i use k-meta to sterilize exactly?
> How do i sterilize my hands?



Soap will leave residual chemicals and aromas on your equipment and hands, which may end up in your wine. 

Mix KMS powder with water, 3 TBS per gallon. I keep it in a gallon jug, sealed, and also in a spray bottle that I mist my equipment with before each use. I store most of my equipment in a 5 gallon bucket with an airtight lid and about 2" of KMS solution in the bottom.

I also mist my hands or rinse them in the bucket if I'm going digging in the must..


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## montanaWineGuy (Jul 12, 2016)

Most recipes over load with fruit. Less is fine. Just ferment a bit longer and stir or squeeze more.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 13, 2016)

So here's an update and let me know if i did anything wrong please. (And how to fix it)
Ok, so last night I pitched the yeast. I used a bit too much according to the supplier. He said the package he gave me is enough for 2-3 batches and I used the whole thing. I asked him if its a problem and he said no. After 15 mins in 100F water, it was a big foam. 
Added it to the primary and mixed it in.
This morning I checked up on it and it overflowed. I opened it up, and i see that theres this big gook on the top of the primary (Im guessing thats the yeast) and stuck to the cloth cover. I scraped it off the cloth and stirred it back in. I watched for some movement and there was a bit, but not a lot of bubbles coming up.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 13, 2016)

Johnd said:


> Soap will leave residual chemicals and aromas on your equipment and hands, which may end up in your wine.



So how do I clean my equipment before sanitizing if its sticky or just plain dirty. Just rinse with plain water to get the garbage off and then rinse with k-meta solution?


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## Johnd (Jul 13, 2016)

There are various cleaning agents for sale, but I know you have trouble getting stuff like that. 
You could do a pretty good job with a cleaning brush just for your wine stuff, sanitize it, and clean your things with hot water and the brush to remove all of the debris. Store the brush and your equipment in a bucket of KMS. Keeping your stuff in a bucket with KMS means it's always ready to use, brush it down when you're done and put it back in the bucket.
Although I have several pounds of the cleaning powder, I pretty much follow the above protocol, rinse and brush everything in hot water immediately after use and store in KMS bucket.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 13, 2016)

Thanks John, I have 3 bottles of K-meta solution that I dowse everything Im bout to use with.

Anyway, moving right along. Fermentation looking beautiful. Nice consistent bubbling. SG down to 1.074 from 1.084, temp is a bit high, so I add a few small ice packs. 
Really bubbled up when I stirred, I hope that means I did it right. 
My bag for my fruit ripped , I tied it closed again, but now theres a bunch of loose fruit. Oh well.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 15, 2016)

SG down to 1.055
Temp is a bit high, about 82 degrees 
Fizzing right along. Seems like the yeast nutrient and energizer are not being missed.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 17, 2016)

SG is down to 1.032, seems like it slowed a bit. Last night it was at 1.035, and its been going down .10 every day since I started. I'm not worried.... yet.
Question: how much will a high temperature hurt my wine? The temp has been in the low 80s since I started. Im getting a new AC tomorrow, I am just wondering.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 18, 2016)

SG down to 1.014, almost done primary it seems. 
Temp is at 33 celsius. A little high. 
I took a small taste of it. Lesson learned: never taste wine during primary fermentation...


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## mennyg19 (Jul 18, 2016)

I found bugs crawling all around my bucket. Hope nothing got in. It was covered well.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 18, 2016)

Finally got an AC in my office. My toes were freezing off in there tonight. Dropped the temp of the wine down to 25C


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## mennyg19 (Jul 19, 2016)

So, my SG is down to 1.007.

I have a question: Dave said to wait until the SG stabilizes for 3 days under 1.000, the thing is, I started with a LOT of honey in this, and want to stop the fermentation process as opposed to fermenting it dry and then back-sweetening it. Is that possible? I want to do it when the SG hits 1.002 or something


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## montanaWineGuy (Jul 19, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> So here's an update and let me know if i did anything wrong please. (And how to fix it)
> Ok, so last night I pitched the yeast. I used a bit too much according to the supplier. He said the package he gave me is enough for 2-3 batches and I used the whole thing. I asked him if its a problem and he said no. After 15 mins in 100F water, it was a big foam.
> Added it to the primary and mixed it in.
> This morning I checked up on it and it overflowed. I opened it up, and i see that theres this big gook on the top of the primary (Im guessing thats the yeast) and stuck to the cloth cover. I scraped it off the cloth and stirred it back in. I watched for some movement and there was a bit, but not a lot of bubbles coming up.



You might be early yet. I've seen four days go by before I start to see fermentation bubbles.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 20, 2016)

SG down to 1.006, Temp is at 25C, so with adjustments for temperature, my SG is at 1.0032.
My question is, I'd really like to stop the ferment now as opposed to fermenting dry and back-sweetening it, is that possible or will I kill my wine?
My ferment either way has either stopped or slowed considerably, there is no visible fizzing at all, and no movement on the hydrometer for the past day. In the past, it has gone down considerably every day since pitching the yeast


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## Johnd (Jul 20, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> SG down to 1.006, Temp is at 25C, so with adjustments for temperature, my SG is at 1.0032.
> My question is, I'd really like to stop the ferment now as opposed to fermenting dry and back-sweetening it, is that possible or will I kill my wine?
> My ferment either way has either stopped or slowed considerably, there is no visible fizzing at all, and no movement on the hydrometer for the past day. In the past, it has gone down considerably every day since pitching the yeast



Menny, it's time to rack your wine out of the primary fermentation bucket and into a glass carboy to complete fermentation. My advice to you is let it completely finish fermenting as opposed to trying to stop it. Do you have a carboy, bung and airlock ready to go?


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## mennyg19 (Jul 20, 2016)

All ready to go, do I rack it now and let it finish in the carboy or leave it in the bucket until it finishes?


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## Johnd (Jul 20, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> All ready to go, do I rack it now and let it finish in the carboy or leave it in the bucket until it finishes?



Go ahead and rack it, let the wine run down the side of the carboy. It'll be foamy and active when you do so, but may be quite still afterwards. If you've still got sugar and active yeast, it'll pick back up after a little time has passed. 

Remember to sanitize everything that will or may touch your wine!
Put the airlock on when you're done and let us know how you did.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 21, 2016)

So I racked this morning. Is there a place on the forum with "tricks of the trade"? If not, it should be started. For example, I had a very slow stream coming through the siphon tube. Took a long time to siphon, much linger than I've seen in YouTube videos. So if anybody has any tips for doing it better, please let me know. 
Anyway, the carboy, or rater the demijohn (different shape), is about 3/4 full. Is that a problem? I plan on watering it down a bit while back-sweetening it. Seems a bit on the dark side for me, and I had used less water than what Dave calls for (15 liters, which is about 4 gallons. Dave calls for 6 gallons). Photos will be forthcoming... I just checked the one I took while siphoning and it came out blurry.

Thanks! Menny


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## mennyg19 (Jul 21, 2016)

Here is the pic i promised. Slight movement in the airlock, about a bubble every half minute, and all the solution is on one side of the airlock.


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## JohnT (Jul 21, 2016)

Yikes! 

First, I would recommend against ever watering down your wine! This will raise the PH and also thin out the flavor that God has granted your fruit. The best options for you would be to either get yourself a smaller demijohn/carboy or top off with a wine that will complement what you are making. 

Having that much air space is a recipe for ruin. You may be OK for the time being as your wine may still be producing CO2 to displace and air that might be in the container, but the picture shows WAY too much headspace for any kind of long term storage.

Your goal should be to keep that demijohn as full as possible.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 22, 2016)

Ok, I ordered a new smaller demijohn. I should get it on Monday. 
John, Im just wondering why u say not to water down. Dave calls for 2 gallons (!) of water more than what I used. Also, my wine is VERY dark compared to pictures of other peoples wines on the forum. I didnt use pectic enzyme or clearing agents if that makes a difference. 
Why shouldnt I add some honey-water to my melomel?


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## JohnT (Jul 22, 2016)

My bad, I lost sight of you original post. I was assuming that you were making wine from fruit, in which case watering down is never a good thing.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 24, 2016)

So i racked to secondary, but its too big. I an ordering a smaller carboy and hopefully will get it tomorrow. 
My question is: I didnt use any clearing agents or pectic emzyme. Anybody know how long it should be taking to clear? Because there is no visible clearing going on, just some settled nastiness on the bottom. Even if I flash a flashlight through it, I cant see any of the light on the other side. 
Once again, Dave calls for 2 gallons of water more than what I used. If that makes a difference


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## Johnd (Jul 24, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> So i racked to secondary, but its too big. I an ordering a smaller carboy and hopefully will get it tomorrow.
> My question is: I didnt use any clearing agents or pectic emzyme. Anybody know how long it should be taking to clear? Because there is no visible clearing going on, just some settled nastiness on the bottom. Even if I flash a flashlight through it, I cant see any of the light on the other side.
> Once again, Dave calls for 2 gallons of water more than what I used. If that makes a difference



I always feel like wines will all clear in time, although I mostly do grape wines. If you have a lot of pectin in your fruit wines, from what I understand, it may not clear.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 24, 2016)

I'm hoping to get to a vineyard up north here in Israel over the summer and get me some Golan grapes... Supposedly world-renowned. But, the season is usually August-September. 
So I started with a Dragon Blood to get the basics of winemaking down.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 28, 2016)

Got my smaller demijohn finally.... Racked tonight and got rid of some sediment. Very dark color still. Hope the wine will be ready to drink for the holidays in September. Im not expecting anywhere near as light and clear as DangerDaves for a few reasons:
First, I didnt use as much water as he calls for
Second, I didnt use pectic enzyme or any clearing agents. 
I added the Sorbate and Sulfites and now I just need to wait... I might add an egg white to help with the clearing.


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## mennyg19 (Jul 29, 2016)

I added an egg white today to help with the clearing, i hope it helps and I did it right. If you look at the picture of my first demijohn, you can clearly see a sediment cloud toward the top of the wine. It settled out and I left it behind when racking to the new demijohn. As you can see in my last pic, its all a solid dark colored wine. I wouldn't be surprised if someone thought it was a cab or some other grape wine...


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## mennyg19 (Aug 3, 2016)

So I checked on my wine, and the k-meta solution in the airlock is all to the wrong side. Its all on the side thats closer to carboy. I never saw anything about this, is it a problem?
Maybe its because I lowered the ac, so the air in the carboy might've compressed and pulled the solution in. Does that make sense? I don't think any solution got into the wine


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## Johnd (Aug 3, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> So I checked on my wine, and the k-meta solution in the airlock is all to the wrong side. Its all on the side thats closer to carboy. I never saw anything about this, is it a problem?
> Maybe its because I lowered the ac, so the air in the carboy might've compressed and pulled the solution in. Does that make sense? I don't think any solution got into the wine



Slight changes in air pressure and temps can cause the fluid to migrate back and forth, no worries about that. If you have filled your lock to the proper levels, it shouldn't allow your solution back into the wine.


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## mennyg19 (Aug 22, 2016)

So I just checked my DB and the sediment looks like its settling nicely. Issue is that its about a third of the way up th carboy... A lot of sediment...


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## TonyR (Aug 22, 2016)

Let it set for a month or so, the sediment will compact. Or drink it sooner and chew it.::


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## mennyg19 (Oct 5, 2016)

Went to a bottle distributor today... bought a bunch of different types of bottles. 375ml, 750ml, 750ml in a cool shape, 500ml screw tops and some small jugs for my mead.
Prices were as follows (tell me if i spent too much):
375ml ~ 50 cents a bottle
750ml ~ 58 cents a bottle


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## drainsurgeon (Oct 5, 2016)

Those are good prices for bottles. Local wine shop in MN charges $15/dozen, about double what you are paying. I get most of my bottles from the local recycle center for free however. I have to spend a little time cleaning and de-labeling them but I'm retired and time is not a problem. You must be getting close to bottling I take it?


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## mennyg19 (Oct 6, 2016)

Yes, I will be bottling any day now my DB. I have a mead, Petit Syrah and Cabernet also. They all need more time. We're coming to the states for a 3 week trip so I'll probably bottle the other 3 after the trip. I want to bring a couple of bottles of DB for my family to try...
Just went through the invoice to make sure (this is approximate charges based on exchange rates):
375ml ~ $.49/each
500ml (screw top wine bottles) ~ $.475/each
500ml (jugs for mead) ~ $1.19/each
750ml (regular bottles) ~ $.46/each
750ml (fancy curved bottles) ~ $.66/each
5L jugs for fermenting ~ $6.88/each
Synthetic corks ~ $0.11/each
Metal screw caps ~ $0.11/each
Shrink capsules ~ $0.018/each
The total was $183 to bottle 100 liters of: 50L Cabernet, 25L Petit Syrah, 20L Dragon Blood and a 5L Date Mead.


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## mennyg19 (Oct 7, 2016)

Started bottling my Dragon Blood but then needed to go somewhere so I put the airlock back on. I used 375ml bottles as I'm not a big drinker. Also, the one in the pic I think I overfilled, the rest are filled until a drop above the neck. I also used synthetic corks with a single lever corker (don't really like it). Here's a pic.


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## mennyg19 (Nov 7, 2016)

So my wine was too gassy still. So I poured them all back into the demijohn and tried degassing. 
How do I know when its ready? I use a hanger with a drill and every time i drill a ton of new bubbles come up. Ive been degassing about 10 mins every day for the past 4 days with no end in sight!!


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## winehomie (Nov 7, 2016)

Good question, I have pondered this myself, I don't usually degass, I bulk age and let it happen over time so I can't help you but I am looking forward to the answers you get incase I try degassing in the future.


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## Johnd (Nov 7, 2016)

mennyg19 said:


> So my wine was too gassy still. So I poured them all back into the demijohn and tried degassing.
> How do I know when its ready? I use a hanger with a drill and every time i drill a ton of new bubbles come up. Ive been degassing about 10 mins every day for the past 4 days with no end in sight!!



There are too many degassing threads to rehash that, so I won't, but if none of the given methods are working, consider this:

Patience. You only started your "first wine ever" 4 short months ago, so it's only been aging maybe 3. It will degas in time 100% of the time. Whipping risks oxidation, time offers graceful maturity.


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## Scooter68 (Nov 7, 2016)

Your whip might be inducing more air than the gas you get out. Harbor Freight, Amazon or where ever for a hand operated vacuum pump seems like a better method and no introduction of more O2 to the wine itself. The hand operated ones start around $20.00-$25.00


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