# persimmon wine



## gnug (Dec 14, 2010)

copypasta from homedistiller.org:

i started a batch of persimmon wine and it's my first try at making wine. HELP! well, no major problems yet except that no one told me this stuff expaaaands. it blew off the lid and spilled out over night and made a huge mess!

i don't know how many lbs of persimmons (hachiya) but it was enough to fill a 5 gallon bucket
i used 5 tsp of pectic enzyme let it rest for 12 hours then pitched the yeast, lalvin EC 1118
i added half a stick of cinnamon and 1 tsp of nutmeg
i only added 1 cup of maple syrup for now because i couldn't get a hydrometer measure yet since it's a thick soupy goo. i'll get a reading asap when it separates a little and probably add a lot more syrup

UPDATE: i just measured a sample and got a reading of S.G. = 1.075
i started the ferment about 24 hours ago, how much do you think the specific gravity would have changed since yesterday? i'll add a little more syrup when i strain the pulp in about a week. how much should i raise s.g. then? what's a good target alcohol content for persimmon wine?

let me know what you all think so far. tips tricks and general advice is welcomed and very appreciated


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## winemaker_3352 (Dec 14, 2010)

It' hard to tell - there is not set calculation to determine how much the yeast metabolizes sugar.

But with that said - within the 1st 24 hours - i usually see mine drop about .0022 @ 74* - .0039 @ 78*.

And that is just an avg for me - like i said before - these values vary a lot on temp, yeast used, etc.


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## gnug (Dec 19, 2010)

i still can't get an accurate reading with the hydrometer but this stuff smells reeeaally alcoholic. super dry. is that normal? will it mellow out?


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## Runningwolf (Dec 19, 2010)

Why can't you get an accurate measurement? Do you have a Cylinder to put your hydrometer in with the wine to take a reading or is it another issue?


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## gnug (Dec 19, 2010)

the issue is that the must is highly viscous. the hydrometer sticks in and stays at what ever level you put it in. the pulp and juices separated at one point and after a day of fermentation i got a reading of 1.075 but there's a lot of margin of error there. i've been mixing it daily and it's stopped separating since then. the ferment is still moving along though


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## gnug (Dec 29, 2010)

i transferred everything over to the secondary last night. it was a mess. it was really hard to separate the juice from the solids. i ended up straining it through some cheesecloth then pressing the huge ball of pulp to squeeze all of the juice out. this took a loooong time. i'm afraid that i may have exposed it all to too much air and oxygen during that whole process and while funneling itinto the carbouy. what will this do to the wine? will it be ok?

i added another cup of maple syrup and dash of mace and nutmeg. the S.G started at 1.075, it was 1.02 before the transfer, and the added syrup brought it up to 1.03


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## sly22guy (Dec 29, 2010)

that has alot of head space in it. you should top it up or move to a smaller container.


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## sly22guy (Dec 29, 2010)

How did you transfer it over? kinda sounds like you poured it through a funnel? You should go to the local hardware store and get some clear tubing and use that to rack over. then you won't transfer the lees off the bottom. As far as the oxygen as long as its active ferment it shouldn't hurt it.


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## gnug (Dec 30, 2010)

i did use a funnel for about half of it. when i was squeezing out the bag of persimmon mush it would only fill the bucket a few inches at a time before it started soaking back up into the bag, so not enough to siphon. it was rough going. would there be any problem if i juice more persimmons and top it off?


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## sly22guy (Dec 30, 2010)

Nope that is what i would suggest doing. do that and then give it a few weeks to settle then rack it over to another container and be careful not to disturb the lees.


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## Catfish (Dec 30, 2010)

If I've been reading right, you don't need to worry about the head space right now because it is still working so oxygen wont be able to get into the carboy. But when it is done working you should top up to 2-3 inches below the bung.


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## closetwine (Dec 31, 2010)

I agree with Catfish, you're still in active ferment and headspace isn't a big issue yet.


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## gnug (Jan 4, 2011)

i pureed some more persimmons added some pectic and yeast to get it to start separating and i hung the mush in some bags on a broom handle on some chairs over some pots. i topped up the carboy to the neck. the ferment is now more vigorous than ever. i'm also going to save a bottle or 2 of persimmon juice i've collected so that i can top it off after the first rack since i think the level is going to drop a lot considering the huge amount of lees at the bottom. this ferment is going to last for 2 months or forever! it looks like a lava lamp


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## gnug (Jan 6, 2011)

here it is topped up. there's the half ton of lees. that's more in another bottle so i can top off after i rack it


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## sly22guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Looks Good! Glad to see you have an extra bottle to top up cause it looks like ur gona need it!


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## gnug (Jan 19, 2011)

i racked the wine for the first time a couple days ago and topped it up with the smaller bottle of persimmon juice that was not as far along in fermentation and presumably had a much higher s.g. since i added a cup of maple syrup when i first got it started. and you might want to ask how much higher? to which i'll reply, i don't know. i forgot to do a lot of measuring recently. i forgot to measure the s.g. of the carboy before i topped it up and after. i checked the s.g. today and it's at 1.01 so i'm guessing the smaller bottle raised the s.g. by about .01. the temperature is at about 64* F. i've got a little bit of bubble action going on at the top of the carboy and the airlock bubbles maybe once every 10 minutes. what's the danger of the ferment going this slow? also, the smell of the wine isn't bad it's kind of nice actually, but it's not great. it doesn't seduce me into wanting to drink it, you know? is that ok at this point? when will it start to smell really good? i feel like i broke a lot of wine making rules. how bad is it?


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## sly22guy (Jan 19, 2011)

First off ur temp is kinda low. Try raising it to 70-75 n make sure that it has finished it's fermentation. Last thing u want is to have bottle rockets! How far along is this wine? Have u sorbate n add ur k- meta? Not sure that the smell will change but taste will.


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## gnug (Jan 20, 2011)

Actually, speaking of exploding bottles, I'm considering making sparkling wine out of half this batch. (ambitious, I know). I read that sorbate and k meta isn't used in sparkling wine. Am I mistaken? However I have used campden tablets along the way so far.


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## gnug (Jan 21, 2011)

i think i may have a problem, but i'd like to stay in denial about it. i racked for the first time on the 01/17 and things had been settling out over the past few days. it began settling in layers. there were about 3 or 4 distinct layers of color in the carboy: 1 big on top, an inch thick one in the middle, and maybe a really thin one, then a big layer on bottom, and then there was the sediment on bottom. now it's simplified to a clearer big level on top and a bit cloudier level on bottom, then the sediment. these layers are very distinct, straight line separating. tell me this is normal? my fear is that the smaller bottle of juice i used to top up infected my wine! i'm overreacting right?


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## sly22guy (Jan 21, 2011)

You should be fine. If im reading this right you only started this batch in dec. correct? You should figure that this batch will not be bottled for min 6 months So figure mid june. You just racked to the secondary a couple of weeks ago correct? 

So i would suggest you warm it up to 70-75 and forget about it till March. 

Then in march the lees will have compacted nice and you can rack it and add your K-meta and then let it go again till June. 

In June you can rack and make it sparkling if you so desire. Do a search i think it was Wade who wrote up about making sparkling wine and how to do it. Since you have already started this batch go with the one that talks about making a sparkling wine from one that was fermented dry.

*Just remember not to rush this and follow Tom's three P's "Patience, Patience, Patience.*


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## gnug (Jan 21, 2011)

thanks slyguy! i'll look up that thread


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## gnug (Feb 11, 2011)

i've got a new problem. the wine is clearing up slowly but surely. however, i sampled a bit of it and it tastes really sour/bitter/acidic. my flavor palette isn't all that developed so i'm having trouble being more specific than that. whadooido? what could be wrong with it and is it fixable?


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## sly22guy (Feb 13, 2011)

Did you do a ph test? or an Acid test? also is this a dry wine or are you sweetening it?


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## gnug (Feb 14, 2011)

i haven't done either test. i don't even know what i'd be looking for if i tested it. it's supposed to be a dry wine, but the fermentation got really slow and pretty much stuck. now it's got .01 sg left over


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## sly22guy (Feb 14, 2011)

Start with this. You can just get simple ph test strips at the lhbs.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11240

Here is a link on the acid test.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10357

The tutorial section has lots of info also
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=71


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## sly22guy (Feb 14, 2011)

I would suggest those two tests and see where you are at. Also a dry wine can have a Harsh taste that mellows out over time. If your still having issues, id suggest you start a new thread in the beginner section as you will get more responses there. Maybe something i missed. Just make sure you give a detailed explanation of what all you have done to this point.


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## sly22guy (Apr 12, 2011)

How did you ever make out? Update?


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## gnug (Dec 20, 2011)

update!

life got hectic around April and I moved to Seattle. I left the wine in a closet at my parents house in Sacramento (in a place where the temperature stays relatively low and consistent). it's just been chillin' doin' nothing until today!

i haven't done the acidity or pH tests yet but i did a taste test and it smells terrible and the flavor is bad at first, ok in the middle very fruity and absolutely awful jaw clench at the end. i can taste some pleasant notes from the spices and residual honey sweetness underneath all of it.

i don't know if this wine is going to shape up. my plan is to possibly induce malo lactic fermentation then bottle it and age it for another year. if that doesn't work, then i'll distill it into some sherry.

p.s. i just noticed this in the glass that i used about an hour ago. good thing i didn't swallow the sip i had! am i going to die? throw it out right? i think it's active yeast, should i add a campden tablet? ok ok i'm going to the beginners threads.


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