# Sanitizing (I am confused)



## rrs26ja (Jan 18, 2009)

I am confused about sanitizing. <?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><O></O>
In my first wine kit I used B-Brite as cleanser. I used 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon of water. The problem is I didn’t rinse it off. I then used 14 Campden tablets to ½ gallon of water as a sanitizer and didn’t rinse that either.<O></O>
The wine kit fermented fine 1.072 to .994<O></O>
I transferred into the secondary a couple of days ago. This time I also cleaned with B-Brite but this time Irinsed and used 14 Campden tablets in a ½ gallon of water to sanitize and did not rinse. When watching George’s video’s, I didn’t see or hear him say anything about rinsing.<O></O>
Our local wine/beer supply store person told me to just use B-Brite 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon of water to clean and sanitize everything. Then rinse everything in cold water before starting.<O></O>
I can't find anything on line that says B-Brite is a sanitizer.<O></O>
<O></O>
I tasted the wine after I transferred to the secondary and it was yucky. <O></O>
<O></O>
I know I sound like an idiot, this is my first kit and I guess between reading the kit directions, watching George’s video’s on this site and my local wine/beer supply persons input I got confused.
<O></O>
Should I start over?


Ron<O></O>


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## grapeman (Jan 18, 2009)

First of all B-Brite is not a sanitizer. It cleans the surface and will generally get rid of most of the bacteria, but officially it is not a sanitizer. While it is true you don't want a heavy residue left, rinsing is not necessary. If I have washed and soaked using b-brite, it will remove things very well including stains in the plastic bucket. I drain the item for a couple minutes and then give it a rinsing. Why? Because if you don't you will get a white buildup after a while. Since I sanitize after, I don't worry about any bacteria I may get from the rinse water. I use potassium metabisulfite for sanitizing because it is much easier than crushing all those campden tablets(they are potassium metabisulfite anyways). Use a couple tablespoons per gallon and use only enough of it to coat things. Store the rest in a closed gallon jug. It will last for months and remain good. Once I have coated what I want sanitized, I just let it drip and air dry. Do not rinse this, that removes the active ingredient and may introduce s afew bacteria back on the item. 


A lot of us here use a spritzing spray bottle, like a windex type container. Don't use one that has had harshe chemicals in before. You can buy new ones cheap most big box stores. Put the potassium metabisulfite (k-meta) in the spray bottle and spray the item. Let drain and you are done.


No don't start over. It typically won't taste all that great at this point. You can sometimes get hints of what it will be like, but face it, it is like eating a meal before it's cooked (sometimes really good and others not so good).


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## rrs26ja (Jan 18, 2009)

Thanks Appleman, you have been very helpful on this site to myself and many others.


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## Rocky_Top (Jan 18, 2009)

I will have to agree with rrs26ja. Appleman is very helpful.


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## Tom (Jan 18, 2009)

I don't know where that guy got 14 campden tablets to a 1/2 gallon water. 
Stick with this group to answer your questions. Applemen is giving the right info.


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## Wade E (Jan 18, 2009)

14 tablets is only 1 tsp and the correct amount per 1/2 gallon is 28 minimum to 42.


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## Tom (Jan 18, 2009)

Thats why I use potassium metabisulfite.
Been so long using tablets I forgot how many you really need..


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## PeterZ (Jan 20, 2009)

Nothing we use can be truely classed as a "hard surface sanitizer." There are legal definitions that our chemicals don't meet. In the wine making arena (very different from beer) a solution of 3 TB sodium metabisulfite (K-meta) per gallon is considered our sanitizer. It inhibits the growth of harmful organisms, which is what we are after. It does not sanitize the surface, i.e. kill 99.999% of all organisms. Rinse everything with the K-meta solution and do not rinse.


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## admiral (Jan 20, 2009)

I have been using a spray bottle with K-met. Do I need to wipe things (i.e. spoon, thief, hydrometer, hydrometer glass) or air dry before use or can I use them as soon as I have sprayed?


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## Tom (Jan 20, 2009)

Depending on how strong yourmixis I would just make sure it drips off. No need to air dry


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## admiral (Jan 20, 2009)

1 tbs / gal. Yes, I have been shaking it off but there are always some beads of liquid left.


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## Tom (Jan 20, 2009)

That's OK no problem.

Let us know how your wine comes out.


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## Wade E (Jan 20, 2009)

Not sure that is sanitizer strength there, there is a reason Im sure that it is recommended at 3 tbs per gallon.


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## Rube-a-Billy (Jan 20, 2009)

tepe said:


> I don't know where that guy got 14 campden tablets to a 1/2 gallon water.</font>
> Stick with this group to answer your questions. Applemen is giving the right info.</font>
> 
> 
> ...



I have been using a similar recipe, only i was using 14 per gallon. i found this on a couple sites, (below).
Since i have alot of them, and want to use them up before they go bad let's take an informal poll on the formula. 
Using wades thoughts i'm thinking the middle of the road and going with 36 per half gallon.

what does everyone think??

14 tabs
http://www.winecellarsupply.com/4wisa.html
funny this one is identical, someone plagerized
http://www.grapestompers.com/sanitation.asp (notes there is no consensus on the exact recipe)

16 tabs 
http://www.eckraus.com/PS115.html


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## admiral (Jan 20, 2009)

wade said:


> Not sure that is sanitizer strength there, there is a reason Im sure that it is recommended at 3 tbs per gallon.




Sorry, I actually use 2oz per gallon. Does that equal 3 tbs? Thanks for the catch Wade.


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## Wade E (Jan 20, 2009)

2 ozs is roughly 3 tbls so you are good. Are just trying to keep us on our toes?


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## admiral (Jan 20, 2009)

PeterZ said:


> Nothing we use can be truely classed as a "hard surface sanitizer." There are legal definitions that our chemicals don't meet. In the wine making arena (very different from beer) a solution of 3 TB sodium metabisulfite (K-meta) per gallon is considered our sanitizer. It inhibits the growth of harmful organisms, which is what we are after. It does not sanitize the surface, i.e. kill 99.999% of all organisms. Rinse everything with the K-meta solution and do not rinse.




sodium metabisulfite = Na-meta


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## Wade E (Jan 20, 2009)

Type-O and believe me he knows what ii is. Thats our resident chemist!


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## admiral (Jan 20, 2009)

wade said:


> 2 ozs is roughly 3 tbls so you are good. Are just trying to keep us on our toes?




You know, there are just so many little things. I'm glad you are watching.


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## admiral (Jan 20, 2009)

wade said:


> Type-O and believe me he knows what it is. Thats our resident chemist!




Thought so. See what I mean?


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## PeterZ (Jan 21, 2009)

Yep, sorry about the typo. Not enough coffee yesterday morning.


As far as rinsing goes, it is unnecessary. The sanitizer strength is 3TB/gal = 9tsp/gal. We normally dose 1/4 tsp every three months when bulk aging. That means a gallon of sanitizer has 36 doses of K-meta. To get the same 1/4 tsp dose using sanitizer requires 105 cc or a little more than 3 fl. oz. A standard drop is considered to be 1/20 cc, so you would need 2100 drops of sanitizer left behind to get the standard dose of K-meta that we add during bulk aging.


The only time I have ever had a problem with not rinsing is whenI soaked a mesh bag in sanitizer to put the raisins in on a Mosti Meglioli kit. I didn't wring out the sanitizer well enough, and the yeast stayed dormant for about 24 hours.


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## Car-Boy (Jan 21, 2009)

The typo has me confused. There are posts about potassium metabisulfite and sodium metabisulfite being used as a sanitizer.What is the difference and which do you use?


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## grapeman (Jan 21, 2009)

Car-Boy they are functionally the same. They are two closely related compounds simple one uses sodium and the other uses potassium. The sodium is slightly more effective by about 10% and ends up being slightly cheaper. Which you use is up to you, they both do the job. You don't even need to worry about using different amounts although you could if you have a gram scale. 


I personnaly use potassium metabisulfite because I am on a soium restricted diet and while the amount in the wine is small, I figure why not just use the k-meta (potassium metabisulfite) and get less in my diet.


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## Wade E (Jan 21, 2009)

Totally agree wit appleman on this issue. We can all use either and it really dont make a difference as the amount is minuscule and immeasurable but its there.


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## Rocky_Top (Jan 21, 2009)

I have seen somewere that in a perfect world, sodium is better in some white wines while K-meta is better in reds. They had about 10 variables that only Peter could follow. And they endedthe acticle with "It reallydose not make that big of a diferance"


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## PeterZ (Jan 22, 2009)

I use potassium metabisulfite (K-meta) for everything. Sodium metabisulfite (Na-meta) is actually about 10% stronger and cheaper per pound. I don't want the sodium in the wine, so would need K-meta for bulk aging. I also use K-meta to make up sanitizing solution. Na-meta would be cheaper for making sanitizer, but considering I go through less than a pound per year it's hardly worth the effort to stock both.


K-meta is more soluble in water than Na-meta, but even our sanitizing solution is not even close to the solubility limits.


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## Car-Boy (Jan 22, 2009)

Thanks to everyone on your replies and excellent explainations! I will go with the K-meta from now on.


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