# Black Walnut Leaf Wine - I'm going for it!



## BigDaveK (Jun 23, 2022)

Twice!
I found a youngish black walnut in the understory near my other trees. I couldn't reach the branches on the older trees and since it takes up to 2 years I thought I'd get the party started. Only a fraction of the leaves are needed compared to other tree leaf wines - only a pint.

The one on the left is a basic black walnut recipe. A combination of Berry and Belt with 100 gr of raisins.

The one on the right is Keller's, sweetened with demerara sugar and honey. No experience using honey or demerara, sounded good, had to try.


----------



## Joel (Jun 24, 2022)

Not sure about the leaves but I know the hull were used to de worm pigs, we would boil the husks in water and dye our traps in the tea when I was a kid. As for consuming the leaves it will be interesting to see how it turns out.


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 24, 2022)

Joel said:


> Not sure about the leaves but I know the hull were used to de worm pigs, we would boil the husks in water and dye our traps in the tea when I was a kid. As for consuming the leaves it will be interesting to see how it turns out.


Of all the tree leaf wines, I read black walnut is the best. Am I gullible? I'll find out.

The nuts are delicious. I process them about every 2-3 years. It takes me about that long to forget how messy and time consuming it is. Stains everything.

Did not know about de-worming pigs!


----------



## VinesnBines (Jun 24, 2022)

This is interesting to me; we have loads of black walnut trees but no one likes black walnuts. Keep us posted even though I've been disappointed in nearly every "different" wine I've tried (coffee, banana, tomato, pecan, fig). I made a good pumpkin years ago but this past year was a failure; I have made a good ginger but my last batch was a disappointment. Dandelion, rhubarb/strawberry, blackberry, raspberry, peach seem to be my most successful non-grape wines.


----------



## Joel (Jun 24, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Of all the tree leaf wines, I read black walnut is the best. Am I gullible? I'll find out.
> 
> The nuts are delicious. I process them about every 2-3 years. It takes me about that long to forget how messy and time consuming it is. Stains everything.
> 
> Did not know about de-worming pigs!


God speed on your endeavor!

I have a decent way to hull them, and have grandpas goody grabber for shelling them, its more along the lines of still time consuming as I still have two gunny sacks full of nuts that need shelled.


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 24, 2022)

VinesnBines said:


> This is interesting to me; we have loads of black walnut trees but no one likes black walnuts. Keep us posted even though I've been disappointed in nearly every "different" wine I've tried (coffee, banana, tomato, pecan, fig). I made a good pumpkin years ago but this past year was a failure; I have made a good ginger but my last batch was a disappointment. Dandelion, rhubarb/strawberry, blackberry, raspberry, peach seem to be my most successful non-grape wines.


I'm sure your "different" wines only disappointed you because they hadn't "matured" enough.


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 24, 2022)

Joel said:


> God speed on your endeavor!
> 
> I have a decent way to hull them, and have grandpas goody grabber for shelling them, its more along the lines of still time consuming as I still have two gunny sacks full of nuts that need shelled.


Thank you!
Some people drive over the walnuts with success. I may try that this year.


----------



## VinesnBines (Jun 25, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> I'm sure your "different" wines only disappointed you because they hadn't "matured" enough.


Maybe; Pawpaw improved with time. I’ll still try something different. Hard to break the habit.


BigDaveK said:


> Thank you!
> Some people drive over the walnuts with success. I may try that this year.


We would toss them in the tire paths to get the green hulls off. Didn’t work to crack the shells.

Wonder when I should collect leaves? Is it like oak and better in the autumn? Do I even know what I’m talking about?


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 25, 2022)

VinesnBines said:


> Wonder when I should collect leaves? Is it like oak and better in the autumn? Do I even know what I’m talking about?


I'm really intrigued by leaf wines and there's not a lot of information out there. I'd like to try oak leaf, but.... I've read collect leaves in May-June, collect leaves in fall, collect whenever. And what kind of oak leaves? My pin oak is paper thin. My shingle oak is "meatier". Bur oak is huge. And do you want a lot of tannin or less? I read the red oaks have the most tannin, white oaks the least and the best tasting acorns.

I suspect various experimental batches are in my future.


----------



## Joel (Jun 26, 2022)

Perhaps you should try it at various stages of the year ( leaf bloom, mid season, end of season pre browning). I suppose you will make a "tea" with the leaves, add some sugar and other odds and ends then ferment. A spin to win.


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 26, 2022)

Joel said:


> Perhaps you should try it at various stages of the year ( leaf bloom, mid season, end of season pre browning). I suppose you will make a "tea" with the leaves, add some sugar and other odds and ends then ferment. A spin to win.


Yes a "tea" is used.
Just started research. Apparently the amount of tannin in oak leaves decreases during the year and other chemicals increase. I'm going to see which oak leaves I can reach on the property. I'd like to do a high tannin and lower tannin just for comparison. I want to get it started soon because everything says 2 years maturing for oak leaf wine. 2 years?! Jeeze Louise!


----------



## Joel (Jun 26, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Yes a "tea" is used.
> Just started research. Apparently the amount of tannin in oak leaves decreases during the year and other chemicals increase. I'm going to see which oak leaves I can reach on the property. I'd like to do a high tannin and lower tannin just for comparison. I want to get it started soon because everything says 2 years maturing for oak leaf wine. 2 years?! Jeeze Louise!


That is a long time to wait to see if a batch is good to go or not...


----------



## Vinobeau (Jun 26, 2022)

I made three gallons a year ago. I used two pints of leaves per gallon, and I just tasted it last week. It is OK but a little blah, I'll test the acid level, it might need a bit more. I will try blending it with some thing!


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 27, 2022)

Vinobeau said:


> I made three gallons a year ago. I used two pints of leaves per gallon, and I just tasted it last week. It is OK but a little blah, I'll test the acid level, it might need a bit more. I will try blending it with some thing!


One year might be too young for a leaf wine. I've been reading 2 years...or more. I'm very happy with my vine cutting wine so far so I'm willing to experiment and wait.


----------



## Snafflebit (Jun 27, 2022)

My French friend makes Vin de Noix which is better described as an apertif liqueur made with red wine and unripe walnuts and other goodies. I quite like it. I say it is definitely worth making.


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 27, 2022)

Snafflebit said:


> My French friend makes Vin de Noix which is better described as an apertif liqueur made with red wine and unripe walnuts and other goodies. I quite like it. I say it is definitely worth making.


Read about it, have recipes, would LOVE to try!
Unfortunately my black walnuts are all about 20 or so feet from one another. In other words, mostly trunk. Unripe nuts are too high up. I'll be watching for drops, though. Maybe I'll get lucky.


----------



## Snafflebit (Jun 27, 2022)

He says you traditionally pick the walnuts on St. Jean Baptiste day which is June 24. It is only a little past that date if you want to make some. I put a link to a recipe in my previous post.

And just reported by him:

“The walnut inside should be a clear gel. The walnut’s shell should not be solid at all. If it is, it’s already too late.”


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 28, 2022)

Snafflebit said:


> “The walnut inside should be a clear gel. The walnut’s shell should not be solid at all. If it is, it’s already too late.”


Good to know! Thanks!
BTW, good link. One of the better ones. Hadn't seen that before.


----------



## Cosyden (Jun 28, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> I'm really intrigued by leaf wines and there's not a lot of information out there. I'd like to try oak leaf, but.... I've read collect leaves in May-June, collect leaves in fall, collect whenever. And what kind of oak leaves? My pin oak is paper thin. My shingle oak is "meatier". Bur oak is huge. And do you want a lot of tannin or less? I read the red oaks have the most tannin, white oaks the least and the best tasting acorns.
> 
> I suspect various experimental batches are in my future.


I’m looking forward to reading your experiences. I’m sure I could find 1 or 2 of them oaks over here if I looked hard but the only 2 in abundance here are pedunculate and sessile. I have no idea how they will compare.


Vinobeau said:


> I made three gallons a year ago. I used two pints of leaves per gallon, and I just tasted it last week. It is OK but a little blah, I'll test the acid level, it might need a bit more. I will try blending it with some thing!


Did you use just leaves or did you add anything else? 
I’m curious as my favourite commercial country wine is “Cairn o’mhor autumn oak leaf”. The blurb says they add orange, lemon and sultanas to the tea and blend a “splash” of elderflower before bottling.


----------



## winemaker81 (Jun 28, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Unfortunately my black walnuts are all about 20 or so feet from one another. In other words, mostly trunk. Unripe nuts are too high up. I'll be watching for drops, though. Maybe I'll get lucky.


Can you reach them with an extended polesaw? Maybe an air rifle?


----------



## FlamingoEmporium (Jun 28, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Can you reach them with an extended polesaw? Maybe an air rifle?


Drone with a small chainsaw ?


----------



## FlamingoEmporium (Jun 28, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Drone with a small chainsaw ?


Vinny was right….. found it on YouTube


----------



## Snafflebit (Jun 28, 2022)

That's nightmare fuel right there.


----------



## VinesnBines (Jun 28, 2022)

Sadly I can reach boatloads of green walnuts. If they are still usable on July 4 …. come on down! I may try the Vin de Noix. Will that count towards my 200 gallon per year max since we start with a fermented wine? (She says this with anticipation of a bumper crop of grapes).


----------



## QuiQuog (Jun 28, 2022)

I grew up with walnut trees in my front and back yards. The sticky smelly mess they they made always disgusted me. And forget about running barefoot when the squirrels were breaking them into shards. Now that I’ve been away for 30+ years, it smells like home. Go figure. 

I’ll be interested in your results. Good luck!


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 28, 2022)

Cosyden said:


> I’m looking forward to reading your experiences. I’m sure I could find 1 or 2 of them oaks over here if I looked hard but the only 2 in abundance here are pedunculate and sessile. I have no idea how they will compare.
> 
> Did you use just leaves or did you add anything else?
> I’m curious as my favourite commercial country wine is “Cairn o’mhor autumn oak leaf”. The blurb says they add orange, lemon and sultanas to the tea and blend a “splash” of elderflower before bottling.


Just the leaves for the walnut.
I picked out a couple oaks and I'll try that later this week. Variety of red oak, high tannin, wine 2 years to maturity.


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 28, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Can you reach them with an extended polesaw? Maybe an air rifle?


I estimate the lowest branches are 25-30 feet up. Loaded with black walnuts. When I collect them from the ground I usually stop at 3 5-gallon buckets.

I have a BB gun but I don't think it would shoot that high.  However, I DO have a pellet rifle that will easily pierce skin. I'll try that. Good idea!! Thanks, Bryan!!!


----------



## BigDaveK (Jun 28, 2022)

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Vinny was right….. found it on YouTube
> View attachment 90021
> View attachment 90022


Oh my God I want one!!!!


----------



## Vinobeau (Jun 28, 2022)

Cosyden said:


> Did you use just leaves or did you add anything else?
> I’m curious as my favourite commercial country wine is “Cairn o’mhor autumn oak leaf”. The blurb says they add orange, lemon and sultanas to the tea and blend a “splash” of elderflower before bottling.


I used only the leaves, and I started it on 6/19/21, only because a neighbor just cut the tree down. It might be different with younger leaves.


----------



## Vinobeau (Jun 28, 2022)

He says you traditionally pick the walnuts on St. Jean Baptiste day which is June 24. It is only a little past that date if you want to make some. I put a link to a recipe in my previous post.

And just reported by him:

“The walnut inside should be a clear gel. The walnut’s shell should not be solid at all. If it is, it’s already too late.”


I've made the Italian version - Nocino. Red wine, vodka, quartered Walnuts, cloves, cinnamon, vanilla & coffee beans. It is quite good!


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 26, 2022)

Racked the two black walnut wines a couple days ago.

On the left, combo Berry and Belt recipe.
Nothing special about the aroma. The flavor? My first thought was burgundy! It's complex, layers, and delicious. Bone dry down to SG .986 and I would drink it like it is. Pleasantly surprised, something so tasty from 60 black walnut leaves. I will make this again next year.

On the right, Keller's recipe.
It used demerara sugar and honey, neither of which I used before, so this was an experiment.
Smells like either Kahlua or Frangelico...more Frangelico I think. First flavor is molasses followed by honey. It's tasty, I'll probably back sweeten later, but it seems like a molasses wine. Not what I was going for. Wouldn't make it again.

We'll see how they taste in a couple months.


----------



## Joel (Aug 26, 2022)

I am glad to hear the experiment turned out in a success. I am interested in trying it next year.


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 27, 2022)

Joel said:


> I am glad to hear the experiment turned out in a success. I am interested in trying it next year.


The black walnut and vine wine from cuttings are my two big surprises so far this year. To get something so tasty and complex from such simple ingredients amazes me.


----------



## bearpaw8491 (Aug 27, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Racked the two black walnut wines a couple days ago.
> 
> On the left, combo Berry and Belt recipe.
> Nothing special about the aroma. The flavor? My first thought was burgundy! It's complex, layers, and delicious. Bone dry down to SG .986 and I would drink it like it is. Pleasantly surprised, something so tasty from 60 black walnut leaves. I will make this again next year.
> ...


Dave, any chance of posting the link to the combo Berry and Belt recipe?
Thanks


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 28, 2022)

bearpaw8491 said:


> Dave, any chance of posting the link to the combo Berry and Belt recipe?
> Thanks


The recipes are almost identical except Belt adds raisins.
There are no links. I collect old wine making books, but this is what I did -

60 Black walnut leaves
100 gr raisins, chopped
6 cups sugar
1 tsp nutrient powder
2 tsp acid blend
1/2 tsp citric acid
yeast

Pour almost 5 quarts boiling water over leaves and steep for 24 hours. A Campden tablet isn't needed since the boiling water will kill any wild things. After 24 hours remove leaves, add everything else. I usually transfer to secondary when the SG is 1.020-1.010.

I make my 1 gallon batches with extra water so I don't have to worry about headspace for maybe 2 rackings. I use a gallon jug and an appropriate sized Mason jar, both with airlocks.

I add sugar to get an SG around 1.085 or so.
I add acid until I'm around pH 3.5 or so.


----------



## winemanden (Aug 28, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> Racked the two black walnut wines a couple days ago.
> 
> On the left, combo Berry and Belt recipe.
> Nothing special about the aroma. The flavor? My first thought was burgundy! It's complex, layers, and delicious. Bone dry down to SG .986 and I would drink it like it is. Pleasantly surprised, something so tasty from 60 black walnut leaves. I will make this again next year.
> ...


 First flavor is molasses. That I think is the main drawback with using Brown sugars in wine!


----------



## bearpaw8491 (Aug 28, 2022)

Thanks for your time Dave. I have at least one of CJJ Berry's books but thought you were referring to a specific recipe -my bad. Additional research on this site indicated that you were combining several recipes.
I have logged your methodology in my notes and will make a test run next spring when the young leaves emerge. We have many black walnut trees on our property and they're still in full leaf now but you and others indicate that the young leaves have more flavor so I'll wait until spring. Thanks for documenting your experiment so well. Hoping mine turns out as well.


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 28, 2022)

winemanden said:


> First flavor is molasses. That I think is the main drawback with using Brown sugars in wine!


It was a good experience.
I'll continue to use brown sugar but in smaller quantities. I have a banana in secondary that used 25% brown sugar. I'll see how it tastes when I rack and adjust my percentage accordingly. My goal is to have an extra flavor that isn't quite identifiable.


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 28, 2022)

bearpaw8491 said:


> Thanks for your time Dave. I have at least one of CJJ Berry's books but thought you were referring to a specific recipe -my bad. Additional research on this site indicated that you were combining several recipes.
> I have logged your methodology in my notes and will make a test run next spring when the young leaves emerge. We have many black walnut trees on our property and they're still in full leaf now but you and others indicate that the young leaves have more flavor so I'll wait until spring. Thanks for documenting your experiment so well. Hoping mine turns out as well.


You're welcome. I enjoy sharing my "unusual" wines.

From my readings you can make a leaf wine any time but they will be very different. Younger leaves are supposed to be better so that's what I'll stick with.

I was tempted to do an oak leaf wine also, even picked out the tree, but collecting a gallon of leaves didn't appeal to me.

Good luck if you do it next year!!


----------



## bearpaw8491 (Aug 29, 2022)

BigDaveK said:


> You're welcome. I enjoy sharing my "unusual" wines.
> 
> From my readings you can make a leaf wine any time but they will be very different. Younger leaves are supposed to be better so that's what I'll stick with.
> 
> ...


Got the old "winemaker's itch" and may have to try a 1 gal run with the old leaves - it'a a long time until spring! Walnuts here in NC are one of the last trees to leaf in spring. One question if you please, which yeast did you use? I'm becoming interested in natural fermentation but don't think I would try it on a first attempt recipe. 
My muscadines are ripening and I'll begin picking in the next week or so. I used JSWordy's Moonshiner's Muscadine recipe last year and it came out well. I expect it to continue to improve over the next 6-18 months. I used several other recipes in past years and most have produced a very good wine. I let them go completely dry and then back sweeten some to ~ 1.002; others remain bone dry. 
Thanks again and will keep you post on progress. That's that itch again!!!


----------



## QuiQuog (Aug 29, 2022)

Okay, this is going on my to do list for next spring. A couple questions though. In the recipe above it says 60 leaves. Is one leaf considered to be the stem with all the leaflets? Does the stem go into the water as well? And I'll second the question by Bearpaw, what yeast did you use?


----------



## QuiQuog (Aug 29, 2022)

I was just reading some old posts from Jack Keller regarding his experience with walnut wine. He said that it takes around 16 months for his recipe to come around. Also, he used Montrachet yeast (now called Red Star Premier Classique.)


----------



## bearpaw8491 (Aug 29, 2022)

OK Dave, hope you're satisfied now! See what you started!!!  Could be the beginnings of another mega trend like Skeeter Pee!!
QuiQuog has an excellent point concerning the leaves. Walnut, hickory, butternut, etc are all in the same family (Duh Walnut!) and members have compound leaves - leaflets on a single stem are considered to be a "leaf". CJJ Berry calls for a gallon of leaves and Jack called for 1 pint packed (about 40) in Home Winemaking. In this book, Keller calls for EC-1118. So what's it gonna be Oh Great Learned One; 60 leaves (leaflets removed from the central stem; 60 leaves (leaflets *and* the stem), or you're not tellin' without additional compensation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 29, 2022)

bearpaw8491 said:


> Got the old "winemaker's itch" and may have to try a 1 gal run with the old leaves - it'a a long time until spring! Walnuts here in NC are one of the last trees to leaf in spring. One question if you please, which yeast did you use? I'm becoming interested in natural fermentation but don't think I would try it on a first attempt recipe.
> My muscadines are ripening and I'll begin picking in the next week or so. I used JSWordy's Moonshiner's Muscadine recipe last year and it came out well. I expect it to continue to improve over the next 6-18 months. I used several other recipes in past years and most have produced a very good wine. I let them go completely dry and then back sweeten some to ~ 1.002; others remain bone dry.
> Thanks again and will keep you post on progress. That's that itch again!!!


Wine maker's itch? I've got the kind that won't go away. I have a rule not to have more than two in primary at the same time. (Thank goodness primary fermentation doesn't last too long! )

I've been doing this less than a year and haven't started to experiment with yeast yet. I've decided I like 71B for flower and fruit but for the black walnut I used 1118.

Natural fermentation is in the back of my mind as well. Someday, probably, because I'm curious.

Muscadine is probably one ingredient I'll never use...only because I don't think they grow in Ohio. I'm jealous.

Good luck with whatever you do!


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 29, 2022)

QuiQuog said:


> I was just reading some old posts from Jack Keller regarding his experience with walnut wine. He said that it takes around 16 months for his recipe to come around. Also, he used Montrachet yeast (now called Red Star Premier Classique.)


I've read some interesting reviews also. Some say it may take 2 years. Some mention it can go through stages where it tastes horrible. But they all say, in the end, it's worth it.


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 29, 2022)

bearpaw8491 said:


> OK Dave, hope you're satisfied now! See what you started!!!  Could be the beginnings of another mega trend like Skeeter Pee!!
> QuiQuog has an excellent point concerning the leaves. Walnut, hickory, butternut, etc are all in the same family (Duh Walnut!) and members have compound leaves - leaflets on a single stem are considered to be a "leaf". CJJ Berry calls for a gallon of leaves and Jack called for 1 pint packed (about 40) in Home Winemaking. In this book, Keller calls for EC-1118. So what's it gonna be Oh Great Learned One; 60 leaves (leaflets removed from the central stem; 60 leaves (leaflets *and* the stem), or you're not tellin' without additional compensation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yeah, most leaf wines call for a gallon of leaves.
Walnut and Black Walnut are different animals for wine making. I used only the "leaflets" and it must have taken 2 minutes to collect them. One of the easiest ingredient harvests I've had.

Additional compensation is not necessary but would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## BigDaveK (Aug 29, 2022)

QuiQuog said:


> Okay, this is going on my to do list for next spring. A couple questions though. In the recipe above it says 60 leaves. Is one leaf considered to be the stem with all the leaflets? Does the stem go into the water as well? And I'll second the question by Bearpaw, what yeast did you use?


Just the leaflets, no stem. The easiest, quickest ingredient harvest you'll ever do.

And 1118.


----------



## bearpaw8491 (Aug 30, 2022)

Just checked my calendar and looks like the first day of spring is next Thursday!!! Here we go!!


----------



## VinesnBines (Aug 30, 2022)

Spring? I know time is flying and I’d like to skip winter but I don’t have a lot of years left.
Or are you in the Southern Hemisphere?


----------



## bearpaw8491 (Aug 30, 2022)

I'm in the same boat. Someone asked me the other day if I had lived in my hometown my entire life. I told them not yet but I was gettin' close!!!
Reference to spring was concerning waiting until spring to gather walnut leaves.
Nope, NC but I am in the Southern part of the piedmont! Does that count?


----------

