# Big Reds and Yeast



## Mac60 (Sep 26, 2017)

For those who make big reds, Cabs, Zins what is some of your favorite yeast?


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## Blazedup (Sep 26, 2017)

I've done bigger reds with BM 4x4 and RP15, both turned out well.


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## Ron0126 (Sep 26, 2017)

I personally like Red Star Premier Rouge but beware: it foams a great deal for about the first three days.


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## NCWC (Sep 26, 2017)

BM 45 D254 RC212
if you can ferment a batch of the same varietal with different yeast then blend together to create complexity and layer flavors


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## Ron0126 (Sep 26, 2017)

NCWC said:


> BM 45 D254 RC212
> if you can ferment a batch of the same varietal with different yeast then blend together to create complexity and layer flavors



THAT is a brilliant idea I've not thought of.
I think I'm going to have to try it.


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## Smok1 (Sep 26, 2017)

NCWC said:


> BM 45 D254 RC212
> if you can ferment a batch of the same varietal with different yeast then blend together to create complexity and layer flavors



I like that idea, Im getting my foch grapes this weekend im going to ferment two batches side by side, one with rc212 and the other with bm4x4 ill do some blending with some of it.


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## Donz (Sep 27, 2017)

BM4x4 last year on my Cab/Merlot/Sangiovese turned out nice.

This year I will be using 2 yeasts separately, then blend after. BM4x4 and K1 V1116.


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## JohnT (Sep 27, 2017)

I am a big fan of rc 212.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 27, 2017)

BM4X4, D254, RC212, RP15

It depends on the varietal, and what I hope to highlight.


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## pgentile (Sep 27, 2017)

RC212 here.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 27, 2017)

RC212 has been my steady eddy as well. I just used BM4x4 for the 1st time.

I've used kv1116 and D254 before, but Rp15 has never been on my radar. What did you use that one for?


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## Matty_Kay (Sep 27, 2017)

I'm currently fermenting a Zin with RP 15, first time for me. Also currently fermenting a Cab/Merlot field blend with D254


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 27, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> ...but Rp15 has never been on my radar. What did you use that one for?



Depends on what you want to bring out. But it can be used on a lot of reds. Syrah comes to mind for me.

http://www.morebeer.com/public/pdf/...sionGUID=ee43d1ec-51d2-8536-343a-8646a4a96bd5


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## Ajmassa (Sep 27, 2017)

Boatboy24 said:


> Depends on what you want to bring out. But it can be used on a lot of reds. Syrah comes to mind for me.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.morebeer.com/public/pdf/...sionGUID=ee43d1ec-51d2-8536-343a-8646a4a96bd5





For me it's basically impossible to tell what differences the yeast is making without a direct side by side comparison. 
This season I went through tons of yeasts and came up with a small list of possibilities. But in the end i didn't want to go with anything that was too needy-- needy in terms of anything other than the standard goferm-Ferm K that I'm now accustomed to. 
Was Syrah the varietal that you used RP15 on?


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 27, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Was Syrah the varietal that you used RP15 on?



I've used it on both Syrah and Zin.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 27, 2017)

Ok cool. Do me a favor and send me a bottle of each so I can further research. That'd be great. Thanks.


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## Mac60 (Sep 27, 2017)

Thanks for all your reply's, love the input here.
I have been using mostly RC212 never had issues also used Redstar Pastur Red with good results.
I have been thinking about changing it up for next year. I really like the idea of splitting up the batch with 2 different yeasts.
I do want to highlight the Old Vine Zin flavor made 60 gallons of Zins would like to break it up 30 & 30 and blend after the press.
So many good options with all your experiences. Thanks again....
Just added ML today and Oak


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## mainshipfred (Sep 27, 2017)

Does anyone use Vintners Harvest. I've used R56 twice. It had a slower but consitent fermentation.


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## 4score (Sep 27, 2017)

We used a blend of D80 and D254 (separate bins then blended) on our 2015 Barbera and the results were spectacular. Double Gold and Best of Class at the last CA State Fair. I got this idea of D80 and D254 from Tony on here. He did the same the year prior and got a Double Gold on his Zin. Those 2 yeast varieties play very well together.

All that being said, we switched to Renaissance Avante. This yeast will not produce any H2S. Even if you don't detect H2S, it's completing eliminating it and all the "masking" the H2S may be doing to your wine. We've used it for 2 seasons so far and we love it!


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## Smok1 (Sep 27, 2017)

4score said:


> We used a blend of D80 and D254 (separate bins then blended) on our 2015 Barbera and the results were spectacular. Double Gold and Best of Class at the last CA State Fair. I got this idea of D80 and D254 from Tony on here. He did the same the year prior and got a Double Gold on his Zin. Those 2 yeast varieties play very well together.
> 
> All that being said, we switched to Renaissance Avante. This yeast will not produce any H2S. Even if you don't detect H2S, it's completing eliminating it and all the "masking" the H2S may be doing to your wine. We've used it for 2 seasons so far and we love it!



I just read up on this h2s eliminating yeast and im intrigued, i checked my supplier and they carry it in 500g packs which is decently priced but maybe a bit wasteful as i wont use this much in one season. Is there anyways to store yeast or just toss it and buy new next year?


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## 4score (Sep 27, 2017)

Try Lodilabs.com
They have smaller quantities and may be on sale!


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## Smok1 (Sep 27, 2017)

Im in canada, just checked there website, they only ship US.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 27, 2017)

4score said:


> We used a blend of D80 and D254 (separate bins then blended) on our 2015 Barbera and the results were spectacular. Double Gold and Best of Class at the last CA State Fair. I got this idea of D80 and D254 from Tony on here. He did the same the year prior and got a Double Gold on his Zin. Those 2 yeast varieties play very well together.
> 
> All that being said, we switched to Renaissance Avante. This yeast will not produce any H2S. Even if you don't detect H2S, it's completing eliminating it and all the "masking" the H2S may be doing to your wine. We've used it for 2 seasons so far and we love it!



The D254/D80 combo is written up in a few places as being a darn good one. Haven't tried the Avante yet, but I'm very curious.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 27, 2017)

I bought that Andante after hearing about it by @4score. (Lodi labs had a sale all yeast 8g packs for $1) 
The renaissance website is really awesome and user friendly too. 
Unfortunately the batch I was going to use the Avante yeast on had taken off with wild yeast. I still added it. But will never be sure which yeast went to work the rest of the way. 
Aside from the andante/Avante strain they also have another non h2s yeast for big reds, "machimio" or something. But i think the Avante was way more tolerant all around.


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## 4score (Sep 28, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I bought that Andante after hearing about it by @4score. (Lodi labs had a sale all yeast 8g packs for $1)
> The renaissance website is really awesome and user friendly too.
> Unfortunately the batch I was going to use the Avante yeast on had taken off with wild yeast. I still added it. But will never be sure which yeast went to work the rest of the way.
> Aside from the andante/Avante strain they also have another non h2s yeast for big reds, "machimio" or something. But i think the Avante was way more tolerant all around.



A friend used Avante and was trying to stop a ferment as he was making a port. He added the brandy and the damn Avante kept chugging right through it! I know they say this yeast is tolerant of high alcohol, but this was crazy! They did a lot of cross breeding at UC Davis to make this stuff like a gladiator, but also refined with some of the best qualities of other yeast.


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## Donz (Aug 6, 2019)

4score said:


> A friend used Avante and was trying to stop a ferment as he was making a port. He added the brandy and the damn Avante kept chugging right through it! I know they say this yeast is tolerant of high alcohol, but this was crazy! They did a lot of cross breeding at UC Davis to make this stuff like a gladiator, but also refined with some of the best qualities of other yeast.



From experience with both D254/D80 and Avante, what we're the big differences are what are you using this year? Thanks


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## 4score (Aug 6, 2019)

plash racking,


Donz said:


> From experience with both D254/D80 and Avante, what we're the big differences are what are you using this year? Thanks



Good question and one I have been asking myself over the last few months. D254/D80 was used to make arguably the best wine I've ever done - Double Gold and Best of Class Barbera at the CA State Fair. That being said, in my climate (Sierra Foothills) I am always battling high temps and I can easily exceed the max temps of these two strains. Then there's the whole process of fermanting in two separate batches with twice the effort of feeding and punching. Finally, we battled H2S....and I mean it was a war! Splash racking, Redulees, copper,... Then we found Avante. Avante is a solid yeast with incredible tolerance to high temps AND high alcohol levels. Best of all, absolutely impossible to have H2S with this yeast. I thought about going back to D254/D80, but for me, I just can't do the war anymore. I would still chance it if I thought the Avante wasn't expressive enough....but it is very expressive. Maybe it's not over-the-top like the other combo, but that's why I've elected to go with Avante PLUS Prelude. Prelude is another story.


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## Donz (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks for the detailed reply. I am likely doing 2 wines this year so maybe I will give both options a try.


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## Mac60 (Aug 23, 2019)

4Score, We had the best Vintage in 20 year of making wine using the split batch of D80/D254, We ended up with 450 bottles of Old Vine Zin, 160 Bottles of Cab and we blended 100 bottles of Zin/Cab, Best wine hands down everyone was blown away how good all 3 came out.
This year were looking at upping the production by18% to 100 Gallons Old Vine Zin and 60 gallons of Sangiovese Bruello Lanza. We did have to battle with temp and we cooled down the must with frozen gallon water jugs, we had zero H2S maybe we got lucky, I saw you post about Avante I'm thinking about trying it but had some concerns about how expressive last years wine and I certainly want to repeat it. I talked to the guys at Lodi labs and they mentioned if I keep up with the nutrients and temp I would mhard to beat the results we got with the D80/D254 combination.You are happy with your results with Avante and Prelude, What is your process with Prelude?. I have never heard of Prelude.
I certainly don't want to have to deal with H2S, the process was to keep the yeast going with proper nutrition and maintain the temp below 85-90 we were good.


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## Donz (Aug 24, 2019)

Nice to hear your experiences with the d254/d80 combo, I’m planning that this year for my Cab and Avante for a Malbec. Did you pitch MLF cultures in your Zin last year?


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## 4score (Aug 24, 2019)

Mac60 said:


> 4Score, We had the best Vintage in 20 year of making wine using the split batch of D80/D254, We ended up with 450 bottles of Old Vine Zin, 160 Bottles of Cab and we blended 100 bottles of Zin/Cab, Best wine hands down everyone was blown away how good all 3 came out.
> This year were looking at upping the production by18% to 100 Gallons Old Vine Zin and 60 gallons of Sangiovese Bruello Lanza. We did have to battle with temp and we cooled down the must with frozen gallon water jugs, we had zero H2S maybe we got lucky, I saw you post about Avante I'm thinking about trying it but had some concerns about how expressive last years wine and I certainly want to repeat it. I talked to the guys at Lodi labs and they mentioned if I keep up with the nutrients and temp I would mhard to beat the results we got with the D80/D254 combination.You are happy with your results with Avante and Prelude, What is your process with Prelude?. I have never heard of Prelude.
> I certainly don't want to have to deal with H2S, the process was to keep the yeast going with proper nutrition and maintain the temp below 85-90 we were good.



Prelude is a non-saccharomyces yeast used to start the fermentation. You let it consume a few brix of your juice, then add your traditional saccharomyces yeast to finish up the fermentation. We let it go 2-4 brix last season with great results. This year we'll try going a little deeper with Prelude before switching to Avante. The Prelude definitely adds to the mouthfeel and complexity of the wine. Good luck with this season!


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## Mac60 (Aug 24, 2019)

Donz said:


> Nice to hear your experiences with the d254/d80 combo, I’m planning that this year for my Cab and Avante for a Malbec. Did you pitch MLF cultures in your Zin last year?


 Yes I did, I used CH16 I have used this for several seasons completed in about 2 weeks let it rest for another 6 weeks before so2 dose.


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## Mac60 (Aug 24, 2019)

4score said:


> Prelude is a non-saccharomyces yeast used to start the fermentation. You let it consume a few brix of your juice, then add your traditional saccharomyces yeast to finish up the fermentation. We let it go 2-4 brix last season with great results. This year we'll try going a little deeper with Prelude before switching to Avante. The Prelude definitely adds to the mouthfeel and complexity of the wine. Good luck with this season!


Thanks 4score.


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