# Campden tablets and yeast timing



## Gwenakinyi (Jul 28, 2016)

Just stated my first batch of wine--wild cherry. I added 1 campden tablet to the must, let sit overnight about 10 hrs, then added a packet of Montrachet yeast. Have now read that I added the yeast too soon, and the campden needs 24 hrs to dissipate. So, do I assume the yeast was killed and add another packet after the full 24 hrs? Or wait a few days for bubbles in the airlock, just in case?


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## DoctorCAD (Jul 28, 2016)

We specifically use "WINE" yeast because it is very tolerant of sulphites. It may just be slow to get going. Give it a few days.


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## cintipam (Jul 28, 2016)

Also I notice you said wait for bubbles in the airlock. Generally, it is better to cover bucket with clean sanitized cloth during primary. At that stage it NEEDS oxygen, so even in an open bucket we stir a couple times a day with a sanitized spoon once the yeast begins to bubble. When SG gets about 1.1 or below then it time to rack to carboy and install an airlock.

Congrats on being an new winemaker. 

Pam in cinti


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## cintipam (Jul 28, 2016)

One more thing-Montrachet yeast is a very needy yeast. If you did not add nutrient, be sure to do so as soon as the yeast starts up and you begin a stirring regimen. If not enough food for this yeast it produces the dreaded rotten egg or burning rubber smell. Very hard and often impossible to get rid of safely.

Pam in cinti


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## Gwenakinyi (Jul 28, 2016)

Thanks, Pam. I did add yeast nutrient, and thanks for the tip about Montrachet. There's a big learning curve in this hobby. I'm interested that you said not to use the airlock for primary ferment; I've read tutorials and forum threads that come down firmly on both sides of this, e.g., loosely covered vs. airlock; it's hard to know which advice to follow! What you say about yeast needing oxygen makes sense. I've also read that yeast should be sprinkled on top of the must 24 hrs later then covered without stirring; others say sprinkle and mix; others say dissolve the yeast first in a small amount of must juice before adding; others to activate in a small amount of juice for several hours before adding. I'm hoping that the reason for these wide-ranging suggestions is that there's a margin of error in this process.


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## cintipam (Jul 28, 2016)

There are plenty of ways to do things, and sometimes the best way can change depending of the type of yeast or the type of fruit you are using. All that comes with experience. I often sprinkle and wait for the yeast to wake up and bubble before stirring. My thought is that if it is on the surface, plus you stirred before sprinkling the yeast, there is plenty of oxygen available till the yeast really starts rocking and rolling and needing lots and lots of oxygen. Others may disagree.

I think the main reason to make a starter is if you have a wine that is difficult to ferment mostly because the PH is a bit low, or maybe it got stuck and needs a reboot of yeast to get the ferment going again. Both those situations really do need a starter to give the yeast a chance to multiply and get strong before being tossed into a hostile environment. Adding must a bit at a time into a starter helps the yeast acclimate to the PH of your must helping it adapt more quickly when tossed in. Lots and lots of situations, and of course lots of opinions.

Pam in cinti


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## cintipam (Jul 28, 2016)

Ok, gotta correct myself. When must SG reaches 1.010 or about, then it is time to rack to secondary. They always say it is best to type at least 3 numbers into an SG to prevent mistakes, and I did only typed 2, so made that mistake.

BTW when your SG is approx 1.050 I personally would add a small amount more of nutrient. With Montrachet I don't take chances. This is called step feeding, and really is the best way to prevent possible problems when using picky yeast. Generally the dose is divided in half, and only half put in at the beginning, the other half at approx 1.050. Too much nutrient when SG is done can provide nutrient for bad things that might try to grow in the wine, so never add it when SG is nearly done. 

So many rules, but honestly wine will make itself. Just to make the best possible wine do we worry about all the little stuff.

Pam in cinti


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## Noontime (Jul 28, 2016)

Welcome to wine making! Something to keep in mind is that every different way of doing things will potentially produce different results, but these differences are usually nuanced. Very few things will "ruin" a wine or something else won't ensure a spectacular wine....usually the things you do effect how good your wine is on a scale of OK to great.

To Pam's point... the yeast build a colony first by reproducing dramatically fast, and each successive offspring is influenced by the environment of their parent. So sprinkling the yeast on top of the must is usually a gentle way to introduce the yeast to their new environment. If you make a starter, you should do it properly so you don't cause more stress to the yeast (doing more harm than good). Again, it's not going to make bad wine...you're just trying to do everything you can to make the yeast happy so they make the best wine possible.

As to your original concern...I've made wine from commercial fruit juices treated with A LOT of sulfites, and I've made wine from extremely acidic lemon juice. Like DrCad said, the yeast are pretty tolerant so I wouldn't worry too much. Of course telling someone to stop worrying about their first wine is an exercise in futility...we've all been there.


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## Gwenakinyi (Jul 29, 2016)

Thank you, this information is all gold. Well, I did just about everything wrong: made a yeast starter by mixing with a little juice, immediately dumped, and stirred; I added this yeast to a must with a recent addition of campden; and then I sealed the whole thing off with an airlock. Nonetheless, I came home from work to find the yeasties active just 12 hours later! Whew. Maybe the yeast nutrient really helped kick it off. Pam, I'll add another half tsp at SG 1.050, thanks for the tip. I also set the lid loosely and will stir daily now.


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## Gwenakinyi (Jul 29, 2016)

cintipam said:


> Generally, it is better to cover bucket with clean sanitized cloth during primary.



What's your method for a clean sanitized cloth? Do you boil a cheesecloth?


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## Prosseco (Jul 29, 2016)

I find yeast very tolerant. On my first batches I was worried about this and that but the yeast sure wants that sugar. I just try and keep the ambient temperature between 19-26 C and it has always fermented nicely. I use airlock from start and just whisks that yeast in with some nutrient. Never used a yeast starter or added nutrient during fermentation.


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## cintipam (Jul 29, 2016)

To sanitize a cloth I either dunk it into a bowl of Kmeta then squeeze it dry (first time using it) or spray both sides lightly with Kmeta before placing it back on the bucket after stirring. I trust kmeta, boiling is so much trouble.

Pam in cinti


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## Spikedlemon (Aug 2, 2016)

I've got kids and a shedding dog: some of us use a lid w/ airlock on primary to protect against contamination without ill effect.
I've also used the bucket lid by resting it lightly on top but I like the airlock because I can see what's going on and I don't have to worry about stray 'stuff' in the wine. In addition I normally take the lid off and stir it once a day - mostly because I like to fiddle with things and it makes me feel like I'm helping.


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## Noontime (Aug 2, 2016)

We use a fermentation bucket and place the lid on top (not tightly sealed), and put a plastic bottle cap over the hole. Just like others, it's just to keep stuff from floating in and keep the bugs out.


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## wineforfun (Aug 2, 2016)

I do as David does, just set a loose lid on top.


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## Scooter68 (Aug 3, 2016)

cintipam said:


> One more thing-Montrachet yeast is a very needy yeast. If you did not add nutrient, be sure to do so as soon as the yeast starts up and you begin a stirring regimen. If not enough food for this yeast it produces the dreaded rotten egg or burning rubber smell. Very hard and often impossible to get rid of safely.
> 
> Pam in cinti



Exactly what I experienced with a strawberry wine last fall - Same yeast same results - those exact smells - thankfully it was only a 1 gallon batch but frustrating anyway. And impossible is the word.

For cover during primary - I went to the local hobby lobby and bought a yard of unbleached, non-permanent press muslin cloth. The courser the weave the better (Low thread count if they show that) - You can use that as a cover for buckets straining etc. I bought one yard (36 x 36) cut up into 2 bucket covers (18 x 18) 4 9x9 straining cloths and a bunch of smaller cloth bottle covers for my carboys when they sit around empty. Just wash by hand with some dishwashing liquid, rinse well and then you can rinse once more with your sanitizing solution before you store them. After mine dried I put them in marked zip-lock bags to keep track of them.


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