# Spraying for fungus



## jandrew156 (Apr 23, 2019)

Hi,

I'm going to start spraying Mancozeb for the fungus control, but was wondering about the instructions...which are very confusing...




The last line states only 3 applications per season, but above it says when the shoots are 1.5", 3-5", and then 8-10". Then at 7-10 day intervals... which would be a whole lot more than 3 applications!!!

Anyone know what this is all about?

Thank you in advance!


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## Rice_Guy (Apr 23, 2019)

jandrew156 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm going to start spraying Mancozeb for the fungus control, but was wondering about the instructions...which are very confusing...
> The last line states only 3 applications per season, but above it says when the shoots are 1.5", 3-5", and then 8-10". Then at 7-10 day intervals... which would be a whole lot more than 3 applications!!!
> Anyone know what this is all about?


Young tender growth is easy to infect. . . the key on the products I have are # initiation of shoot growth # flowering/ fruit set
I rotate what I use and will switch from a fairly old formula sulfur to the modern synthetics with the logic that I want to knock fungus back but don't want to contribute to resistance development,, and a week to 10 days is about right. Mancozeb has a long delay before harvest, must be fairly toxic (efficient on fungus).


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## jandrew156 (Apr 23, 2019)

...but what about the max 3 applications???

Also, would you know the best time of day to spray? morning, mid-day, evening?
I've heard early morning so the sun dries off the moisture, but would mid-day damage leaves?


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## Rice_Guy (Apr 23, 2019)

jandrew156 said:


> ...but what about the max 3 applications???


Mancozeb is not the only fungicide,  *I rotate* what I use/ I try the minimum exposure since I will drink the wine. If the label says 3 times, I would try _three with that chemical_, MAXIMUM. There is something called integrated pest management, the local extension recommends when to spray/ what to watch for. For the midwest my big driver is black rot ,,, otherwise I would not spray a fungicide and essentially before I collected northern hybrids with vinifera genetics I didn't.


jandrew156 said:


> Also, would you know the best time of day to spray? morning, mid-day, evening?
> I've heard early morning so the sun dries off the moisture, but would mid-day damage leaves?


#1 when there is no wind
#2 if the day is rain free
grown up on the farm the spraying was done at the convenience of the application person, no rain and light wind. My plants are 15 minutes out of town so from a practical point of view it seems I never get anything out before 11, I try mid day but have done 6pm especially if there was some wind and I put an organophosphate out for insects. I have not seen problems related to leaf damage. (growing in the midwest)


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## salcoco (Apr 23, 2019)

I am not sure what the three applications limit means, but I and another friend with a vineyard applied every two weeks per instructions without ill affects to the plants.

best time to spray --any part of day as long as wind was relatively calm. recommend using a mask when spraying.


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## Rice_Guy (Apr 24, 2019)

salcoco said:


> I am not sure what the three applications limit means, but I and another friend with a vineyard applied every two weeks per instructions without ill affects to the plants.
> 
> best time to spray --any part of day as long as wind was relatively calm. recommend using a mask when spraying.


I should apologize for my point of view. Folks in the Quality lab down the hall were licensed pesticide applicators who treat food production areas. They would be quickly unemployed if they did not follow the label. The label is an EPA approved document.

A label will typically list the maximum dosage per acre for farm usage. The intent is to keep toxins from building up creating am environmental hazard.
East of the Rockies the limit is 19.2 pounds per acre per year.(28.7% active ingredient) Yes it can be applied every 7 to 10 days. West of the Rockies the limit is 3 treatments per season (6 pounds per acre per season maximum) (ie it is dry in California so fungal pressure is less). 
There is a 66 day wait from the last treatment till you can harvest (ie the residual is high and it is an effective chemical that hangs around. I haven’t looked for the lethal dose50% of the test population. You don’t want to expose yourself directly to it. Second hand exposure as touching plants after dry is ok.
All in all it is a good chemical and the EPA thinks it is safe enough to let unlicensed applicators buy it.


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 24, 2019)

Mancozeb is very effective for our area and I use it on both fruit trees and grapes, but I only use it twice a year, and never less than 66 days PHI. I also use Captan, Immunox, and Serenade (biological). Immunox is an important one for me as I sue it more than the others as a filler. I've included a chart that I developed to aid me year to year. It is dymanic and I make changes from time to time. If a product says yes, then that means the product label says it treats the listed disease. The numbers indicate observed effectiveness. You'll have to piece this together as I do this on a spreadsheet and it's doesn't translate well to a file that this forum uses, but I hope this helps.


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## GreenEnvy22 (Apr 24, 2019)

I rotate through 4 different sprays, each with their own "action" for controlling fungus.
Manzate Pro-Stick (Mancozeb), Pristine, Kumulus, Switch.
This helps keep fungus from developing resistance to one type.

Interestingly, Manzate is 75% mancozeb, but only has a 30 day PHI.


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 24, 2019)

Hmm, didn't know that. Wonder why the difference. It may have something to do with the binding agent used. And I meant to say that rotating helps from developing a resistance, which is what I do. I also have fruit trees, so that has an impact in what I spray with. I use the same sprayer for everything and if I can mix it the same, it cuts down on time.


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## Masbustelo (Apr 24, 2019)

I use mancozeb and micronized sulfur roughly until July 1st. Then Immunox once and then switch over to organic sprays (Serenade, Actinovate, Bi-Carbonates) and until harvest. But I'm not a commercial grower.


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 24, 2019)

Neither am I, but it sounds like you have it down. Does it work for you?


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## Masbustelo (Apr 25, 2019)

I haven't had any problems. My understanding is that the endemic infections happen relatively early in the season. The mancozeb and sulfur should handle things up front. The second half, you need to be proactive. Spray before it rains, maybe after, depending. Maybe weekly sprays versus ten days. After July first, I rotate my sprays. I probably have a five product spray rotation. My problem is what looks like magnesium deficiency showing up late in the year. But I haven't had any mildew problems with Verona or Petite Pearl.


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 25, 2019)

My biggest issues are downy mildew and Japanese beetles. And yes, early treatment with Mancozeb is in my program, as well as Captan (in the form of Bonide Fruit Tree spray). Everything gets an early dose of Bonide FTS here. Do you use dormant oil during the off season? I usually does thing down around February when I get a mild day.


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## User196221 (Apr 25, 2019)

Google Penn State grape spray schedule.....lists recommended chemicals and when to spray them


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 25, 2019)

I've looked at their site, as well as Ohio State and UofK, and several others. I pull what I see as pertinent info from each, but lean more on OSU and UofK as they are closer to me and see many of the same issues. I also grow fruit trees and try to find a 'one size fits all' with my spray program, which is a tough act. Some of the most widely used stuff (ie, Abound) for grapes is a no no for fruit trees. But thanks for the recommendation.


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## Masbustelo (Apr 25, 2019)

Dennis Griffith After I prune, which was April 1st for me this year. I spray with dormant oil and Southern Ag Liquid Copper Fungicide. I believe that leaf type Phylloxera can be gotten under control, or eliminated. Maybe the dormant oil helps.It would be a good idea, after leaf drop in early winter to apply the dormant oil and Copper fungicide in early winter as well. I also always use a spreader sticker. When the Japanese beetles show up, as soon as I spot any: I mix up some Sevin in a quart spray bottle and shoot them individually or in mass. Nothing less aggressive has worked for me. Supposedly a neem oil spray or two disrupts their reproduction cycle. I would suspect a periodic neem spray would help eliminate the Phylloxera if you have them. As well as the Sevin during the Beetle season. My biggest problem is Raccoons. In the city your not allowed to spray them with lead.


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 28, 2019)

I do include Neem in some of my mix, but not every spray. I, too, have read that it disrupts the reproductive cycle on JBs. I'll be spraying as soon as the weather breaks as it appears that the growing season is here!


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 28, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> Dennis Griffith After I prune, which was April 1st for me this year. I spray with dormant oil and Southern Ag Liquid Copper Fungicide. I believe that leaf type Phylloxera can be gotten under control, or eliminated. Maybe the dormant oil helps.It would be a good idea, after leaf drop in early winter to apply the dormant oil and Copper fungicide in early winter as well. I also always use a spreader sticker. When the Japanese beetles show up, as soon as I spot any: I mix up some Sevin in a quart spray bottle and shoot them individually or in mass. Nothing less aggressive has worked for me. Supposedly a neem oil spray or two disrupts their reproduction cycle. I would suspect a periodic neem spray would help eliminate the Phylloxera if you have them. As well as the Sevin during the Beetle season. My biggest problem is Raccoons. In the city your not allowed to spray them with lead.



Which Sevin do you use, the one that is Carbaryl based or the newer Zeta-Cypermethrin based one? The newer one works much better for me.


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 28, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> Dennis Griffith After I prune, which was April 1st for me this year. I spray with dormant oil and Southern Ag Liquid Copper Fungicide. I believe that leaf type Phylloxera can be gotten under control, or eliminated. Maybe the dormant oil helps.It would be a good idea, after leaf drop in early winter to apply the dormant oil and Copper fungicide in early winter as well. I also always use a spreader sticker. When the Japanese beetles show up, as soon as I spot any: I mix up some Sevin in a quart spray bottle and shoot them individually or in mass. Nothing less aggressive has worked for me. Supposedly a neem oil spray or two disrupts their reproduction cycle. I would suspect a periodic neem spray would help eliminate the Phylloxera if you have them. As well as the Sevin during the Beetle season. My biggest problem is Raccoons. In the city your not allowed to spray them with lead.



As for raccoons, I don't mind them as long as they stay digging around the bird feeders. I have a defense for them and they don't like it. I run 5' wire fence with electric tape at top. I live in a critter dense area and it's not just the raccoons that I have to contend with. Rabbits are the only thing that gets through the fence, and the black critter (dog) in the picture chases them out.


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## Masbustelo (Apr 28, 2019)

My 'vineyard' layout is complicated, I cant figure out how to electrify it.


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## Masbustelo (Apr 28, 2019)

If anybody has some ideas how to rig up electric fencing (for raccoons), I would appreciate suggestions.


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## Masbustelo (Apr 28, 2019)

Dennis Griffith 
Which Sevin do you use, the one that is Carbaryl based or the newer Zeta-Cypermethrin based one? The newer one works much better for me.
I have the Carbaryl based that I bought two years ago. They drop like 'flys'.


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 29, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> My 'vineyard' layout is complicated, I cant figure out how to electrify it.



They do make temporary fiberglass posts as well as solar chargers for temporary installations. They also sell inexpensive 110V chargers as well. Your local farm supply store should have all of these. You could use 1" tape along the bottom and maybe the next lug up. 4 legged (and 2 legged) critters don't care for that loose bladder feeling they get when in contact with the wire/tape. We used to have horses, so the electric infrastructure was already in place, as well as an abundance of the temporary poles. I still use them for all sorts of tasks.


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## Masbustelo (Apr 29, 2019)

Is the tape better than old regular wire?


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 29, 2019)

No, just easier to see. Remember to turn off the electric before working on the grapes ;-)


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 30, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> Dennis Griffith
> Which Sevin do you use, the one that is Carbaryl based or the newer Zeta-Cypermethrin based one? The newer one works much better for me.
> I have the Carbaryl based that I bought two years ago. They drop like 'flys'.



Zeta-Cypermethrin (Garden Tech). I had an experience last year that makes me questions whether Carbaryl is effective against JBs here now. I use Bonide Fruit Tree Spray (Captan, Malathion, and Carbaryl) as one of my early treatments here (fruit trees and spray). I can spray everything with it and it is convenient for me. Last year, 4 days after a had used Bonide FTS, the JBs hit and it seemed that the FTS was just seasoning on the leaves. I had to spray the grapes at Noon with Zeta-Cypermethrin to stop their damage. Last year they showed up all at once by the bus load. I set traps out away from the orchard and vineyard to draw them away. The only down side to them is that the bags fill completely up in less than a day. A troubling note, I am spotting June bugs already, so I expect JBs in May this year.




less than a days worth..


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## Masbustelo (Apr 30, 2019)

I do a walk through a couple times a day after they show up, and shoot everyone I see. I know you have lots more vines. They weren't too heavy here last year. Are you sure your traps aren't attracting them?


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## Dennis Griffith (Apr 30, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> I do a walk through a couple times a day after they show up, and shoot everyone I see. I know you have lots more vines. They weren't too heavy here last year. Are you sure your traps aren't attracting them?



I'm hoping the traps are attracting them. I set them up some distance from the trees and vines. And they sure do like the smell of the traps. But, everything loves eating grape leaves (including humans).


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## jandrew156 (May 6, 2019)

So, the Bonide FTS had zero effect on the JB's? Do you recommend spraying with the Zeta-Cypermethrin after they hit?
btw, I've also seen a TON of June bugs here in SW Pa. My dog can't stop eating them....


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## Dennis Griffith (May 6, 2019)

jandrew156 said:


> So, the Bonide FTS had zero effect on the JB's? Do you recommend spraying with the Zeta-Cypermethrin after they hit?
> btw, I've also seen a TON of June bugs here in SW Pa. My dog can't stop eating them....



It did not seem to slow them down. I like this early on as it is different from what I follow it with. It is the only time I use malathion also, but I like it in case some little buggers are hiding out that dormant spray didn't get. Here is what I like:

Bonide Dormant Oil (bud break and earlier)

Bonide Fruit Tree Spray (once right after bud break)

Mancozeb (early season and after harvest)

Immunox or Captan (rotate up to harvest)

Sevin (Garden Tech - Zeta-Cypermethrin) (early to mid season for JBs)

Ortho Flower, Fruit and Vegetable Insect Killer (later in season once)

Neem and Serenade in many mixes (the Neem for it's effect in reducing JB populations and the Serenade in long term reduction of fungus)

You must be careful using insecticides prior to fruit set as you don't want to kill the bees. I typically mow the vineyard area prior to spraying to limit clover/dandelions attracting bees near the vines. I also have fruit trees, and follow pretty much the same regiment. And yes, at the first sign of JBs, I nuke them and about every 7 days afterward for at least a month. Left untreated, they will strip a vine in a day. It's almost biblical here when they pop out and the June bugs are early indicators of the start of the season. I also treat the soil with milky spore, in and surrounding the vineyard and orchard areas.


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## jandrew156 (May 6, 2019)

So, when you spray for the JB's, you don't do any fungal protection? Or do you rotate the fungal inside of the insecticide?
say... 
day 1 - sevin
day 4 - fungal
day 7 - sevin
day 11 - fungal
...etc...
so every 4 days they're getting some type of spray??


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## Dennis Griffith (May 6, 2019)

jandrew156 said:


> So, when you spray for the JB's, you don't do any fungal protection? Or do you rotate the fungal inside of the insecticide?
> say...
> day 1 - sevin
> day 4 - fungal
> ...



It depends on when I last sprayed fungicide. If nothing else is due, then I spray just the insecticide. I try to adjust the schedule from there out to get everything in one spray. I don't like spraying more frequent than once a week, and if I can stretch it to once every 2 weeks, that's good. But when it's JB season, it's once a week. You need to read the labels on the products you use and create a strategy that works for you and the issues you face. I keep a journal each year on when I spray, dates I see certain issues start, and when bud break, fruit set, and veraison start. It doesn't have to be fancy, just a cheap wall calendar to use this as a guideline from the previous year (or more).


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## FrontenacMan (Jun 10, 2019)

I've been following this thread since it's start in April. Just wanted to thank all of you for the info. I had a major problem with black rot last year. I think weather conditions were a factor but I also learned much about pruning to make sure I get good air flow. This year my vines (5 year old Frontenac) are looking very good. But I noted a couple of leaves with some brown spots and a cane or two with black spots (about a week ago). I treated with Mancozeb. My clusters look very good and a lot of them (more than past years). It is early of course but I am hopeful for a very good crop this year. It seems as this year the growing season is delayed from prior years. I did not see bud break until a month ago. Do you recommend continued treatment with Mancozeb? Also, I've seen some info on thinning out/reducing the number if clusters to allow for larger berries. I'm seeing between 35 to 50 clusters per vine. Any thoughts?


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## Dennis Griffith (Jun 11, 2019)

FrontenacMan said:


> I've been following this thread since it's start in April. Just wanted to thank all of you for the info. I had a major problem with black rot last year. I think weather conditions were a factor but I also learned much about pruning to make sure I get good air flow. This year my vines (5 year old Frontenac) are looking very good. But I noted a couple of leaves with some brown spots and a cane or two with black spots (about a week ago). I treated with Mancozeb. My clusters look very good and a lot of them (more than past years). It is early of course but I am hopeful for a very good crop this year. It seems as this year the growing season is delayed from prior years. I did not see bud break until a month ago. Do you recommend continued treatment with Mancozeb? Also, I've seen some info on thinning out/reducing the number if clusters to allow for larger berries. I'm seeing between 35 to 50 clusters per vine. Any thoughts?



You need to switch from Mancozeb 66 days before you expect harvest. Plus a rotation will help keep the fungus from adapting to one product. I love Mancozeb, but I only use it early and late season.


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## FrontenacMan (Jun 11, 2019)

Thanks Dennis. Yes, I read earlier in your post that you rotate to keep fungus from adapting. Looks like Immunox and Captan are your recommendations. Very good information.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jun 11, 2019)

FrontenacMan said:


> Thanks Dennis. Yes, I read earlier in your post that you rotate to keep fungus from adapting. Looks like Immunox and Captan are your recommendations. Very good information.



It still depends on what issues you have. These 2 cover several grape related issues, but not all of them. And one may be more effective on a particular issue that the other. I would also include Serenade to see how that works for you. It is a biological agent and not chemical, so it mode of action is very different from chemical choices. You description of the issue you have sounds more like Phomopsis, which is an issue I've also had this year due to the increased rainfall/humidity. Captan is an effective choice for this, but be careful using it during fruit set as it has been recently shown to be harmful to honey bees. It only causes a problem when the bees pollinate something treated with Captan and carry it back to the hive. It effects larvae development, as I understand it.


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## GreenEnvy22 (Jun 11, 2019)

I generally never spray the same thing twice in a row, but a couple of weeks ago I sprayed Pristine, and this morning I did again. It's been so wet here I'm concerned about mildew early in the season, and some bunches are still opening up, so wanted to get some protection from that and also black rot.
Will switch to manzate next and then rotate through the others.
Once I see JB's appearing I'll use the altacor which seems to do a good job on killing them off.
This was what my muscat looked like last week. Yard is dug up as we're putting in a patio there.


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## Masbustelo (Jun 12, 2019)

Altacor at $200 dollar for 16 ounces is pretty steep for backyard grapevines. I've used Sevin last couple of years, and found it very effective. Sevin is 32 ounces concentrate $13.50 at Walmart.


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## GreenEnvy22 (Jun 12, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> Altacor at $200 dollar for 16 ounces is pretty steep for backyard grapevines. I've used Sevin last couple of years, and found it very effective. Sevin is 32 ounces concentrate $13.50 at Walmart.


Ah, see you just need relatives who are commercial grape growers and will give you freebies


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## Dennis Griffith (Jun 12, 2019)

Oh my, I searched on Printine spray and found it right off. Seems it replaces wet wipes for toilet needs. If you are only using it once a week, well........... On the serious side, you have to pick what addresses your issues and fits your vineyards size.


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## BigH (Jun 12, 2019)

FrontenacMan said:


> But I noted a couple of leaves with some brown spots and a cane or two with black spots (about a week ago). I treated with Mancozeb.



It is important to follow a spray regiment from the start of the season rather than waiting to react after you see signs of infection. The midwest fruit pest management guide is a great resource for figuring out when and what to spray. 



> Also, I've seen some info on thinning out/reducing the number if clusters to allow for larger berries.



I am curious why you feel that larger berries are advantageous.

H


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