# Juice bucket mixed results



## Jal5 (Apr 6, 2022)

I know I saw something like this before. I’ve used juice buckets from two different suppliers locally over the past few years. Mixed results- one was consistently just blah and the other was pretty good. Tried different grapejuice merlot, cab sauv, sangiovese. Calif and Chile varieties. Can there be that much difference between suppliers to account for this? Do they get the juice in bulk and maybe one waters it down?

thanks
Joe


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## Rocky (Apr 6, 2022)

Joe, I have had some inconsistencies in juice buckets from year to year from all three areas, Chile, California and Italy. I don't know what causes it, probably just the difference in vintages from year to year. I once had a Chilean Malbec that was to die for and the next year it was purely mediocre, same supplier. In my experience, I have found that for consistency, and there is not a huge difference, California has been best, Italy is second and Chile is third. Quality-wise, I would put Italy first, California Second and Chile third. Again, that is only my experience and others may have had different results. As far as how it is shipped, I am not sure, but I would imagine it is shipped in bulk from Italy and Chile and "bucketed" in North America (US or Canada). California juice is probably processed there.


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## cmason1957 (Apr 6, 2022)

My opinion on juice buckets is I am unable to make a wine I want to drink or of any juice bucket and just don't bother with them any longer.


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## Ohio Bob (Apr 6, 2022)

I ran a similar experiment last spring. Bought Carmenere juice from two different shops, but also used two different yeasts. Tasting both side by side, I definitely had a favorite, but the more I read the generic description of the yeasts characteristics, the more I could see that the differences were probably due to the yeasts.

On a side note I did a glass blend and the 50/50 blend was better then either one. So I plan to blend the two together at bottling.


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## Rocky (Apr 6, 2022)

cmason1957 said:


> My opinion on juice buckets is I am unable to make a wine I want to drink or of any juice bucket and just don't bother with them any longer.


The buckets can be tricky, but I have found for white wine, they do a very good job. I think this is because the pure juice is very close to what is used commercially for white wines. That is, white grapes are normally squeezed, and the juice is collected without any appreciable contact with the skins. Reds are a different story and that is why, when I was making a red wine from juice buckets, I would buy a lug of grapes of the same variety, destem them, crush them and add them to the primary fermentation. Seemed to work for me.


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## Jal5 (Apr 6, 2022)

Maybe my next experiment in the Fall will be juice bucket plus a lug of grapes. It’s strange but I tasted a 750 ml bottle of Cab Suav from 2020 yesterday and it was watery. The 5 gallons same juice from 2020 that I bottled two cases of today was definitely better. Only difference was oak spiral added to the 5gallon carboy.


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## Jal5 (Apr 6, 2022)

Ohio Bob I’m from Steubenville and use a shops in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Where aRe your suppliers?


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## tullamore (Apr 6, 2022)

i agree with Rocky when it comes to red juice by adding a lug or 2 to the mix - only time i get juice is for my whites once in a while 
i usually make my whites from grapes but sometimes i get some juice when i get a little lazy
- Lodi is good in their whites - Spain and Australia are great - Ontario Canada where i live are excellent


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## Rocky (Apr 6, 2022)

tullamore said:


> i agree with Rocky when it comes to red juice by adding a lug or 2 to the mix - only time i get juice is for my whites once in a while
> i usually make my whites from grapes but sometimes i get some juice when i get a little lazy
> - Lodi is good in their whites - Spain and Australia are great - Ontario Canada where i live are excellent


Interesting, I have not seen buckets from Spain or Australia, but then again, I haven't looked for them either. We have an importer here in Columbus, OH that gets buckets in from California, Italy (Fall) and Chile (Spring). He usually has the grapes to match the buckets, too. I would imagine you get the Spanish juice in the Fall and Australian juices in the Spring, correct?


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## Ohio Bob (Apr 6, 2022)

Jal5 said:


> Ohio Bob I’m from Steubenville and use a shops in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Where aRe your suppliers?


Favorite is Grape & Granary - Akron
2nd is Vine N Hop - Medina
There is a Label Peelers in Ravenna that I’ve been to once, years ago.


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## Ohio Bob (Apr 6, 2022)

Rocky said:


> The buckets can be tricky, but I have found for white wine, they do a very good job. I think this is because the pure juice is very close to what is used commercially for white wines. That is, white grapes are normally squeezed, and the juice is collected without any appreciable contact with the skins. Reds are a different story and that is why, when I was making a red wine from juice buckets, I would buy a lug of grapes of the same variety, destem them, crush them and add them to the primary fermentation. Seemed to work for me.


I concur 100%. My whites are every bit as good as any store bought (I was told by my head taster, me). Reds, I have yet to make anything that would compete. However, I have learned so much in the last 2 months from this site that I think I at least have the toolkit to start making better reds.


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## tullamore (Apr 6, 2022)

Rocky said:


> Interesting, I have not seen buckets from Spain or Australia, but then again, I haven't looked for them either. We have an importer here in Columbus, OH that gets buckets in from California, Italy (Fall) and Chile (Spring). He usually has the grapes to match the buckets, too. I would imagine you get the Spanish juice in the Fall and Australian juices in the Spring, correct?


my importer - an Italian (one of my people) we get frozen must and juice from Montsant Spain - every 3 years i do Tempranillo and a Grenacha (225 litres) - this year was the first time we got frozen juice from Australia 
these we get on the fall


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## Jbu50 (Apr 6, 2022)

I tried white juice buckets from Chile last spring for the first time - tried a Chardonnay, Viognier, and a Sauvignon Blanc. Mediocre results...but the strangest thing is that they all kind of taste the same. I can’t figure it out.


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## tullamore (Apr 6, 2022)

most grapes i get come from Lodi, El Dorado,Russian River ,clement Hills


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## tullamore (Apr 6, 2022)

Rocky said:


> Interesting, I have not seen buckets from Spain or Australia, but then again, I haven't looked for them either. We have an importer here in Columbus, OH that gets buckets in from California, Italy (Fall) and Chile (Spring). He usually has the grapes to match the buckets, too. I would imagine you get the Spanish juice in the Fall and Australian juices in the Spring, correct?


yo Rock if u ever get a chance - order some juice or taste some - Riesling or Gewürztraminer from ontario - our climate is perfect for these grapes -


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## Rocky (Apr 7, 2022)

tullamore said:


> yo Rock if u ever get a chance - order some juice or taste some - Riesling or Gewürztraminer from ontario - our climate is perfect for these grapes -


I will keep an eye out for them. I was in the service in Europe and drank a lot of both in Germany. I would guess that your climate is similar to that of Central Europe. Do you know where in Ontario they are grown? I used to live in Rochester, NY and we made many trips to Toronto for the shows there. It was a great city to visit.


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## RBAllan (Apr 7, 2022)

Assuming all suppliers use the same quality control measures, there can be a tremendous difference in a grape juice from a particular vintner from year to year. For example, we enjoy a Falanghina wine from a local winery in San Diego. One year was a cold summer and there was so little sugar in the grapes, the winery wouldn't sell the resulting wine because it produced a very low alcohol content and wasn't up to their standards (we got them to just give us a few gallons to make Falanghina Brandy). Another local California winery produces Mission wine from grape vines brought over from Spain by the Mission Fathers in the 1700s. The first year was a hot summer and the grapes were loaded with sugar, producing a delicious desert wine. The second year was a normal summer and the grapes produced a good dry white wine.

Rather than buying your juice from an online vendor without any knowledge of the growing conditions from the source, you might consider getting friendly with some of the local wineries to find out if you can buy your juice directly from them. That way you know how they grew the grapes and the sugar content of the grapes.


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## heatherd (Apr 7, 2022)

I agree with the above posts: for reds I like adding fresh/frozen grapes to the fresh juice buckets. For whites and roses, I can do them as a juice bucket alone. For anyone not doing buckets because of a consistency issue, I'd suggest doing Finer Wine Kits (from Label Peelers in OH), as their red kits are consistently better than the other makers. Their Forte series comes pre-balanced, with all your chems, with a very large amount of grapes, with seeds, with a starter, and are shipped cold since they're not pasteurized to be shelf-stable. Wine Making - Wine Kits - Finer Wine Kits - Forte Series - Label Peelers


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## tullamore (Apr 7, 2022)

Rocky said:


> I will keep an eye out for them. I was in the service in Europe and drank a lot of both in Germany. I would guess that your climate is similar to that of Central Europe. Do you know where in Ontario they are grown? I used to live in Rochester, NY and we made many trips to Toronto for the shows there. It was a great city to visit.


Niagara on the Lake - i get the juice form Watsons i also get all my barrels from them as well - yes Toronto is a great city - But Montreal trumps all Canadian cities 
our IMO


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## tullamore (Apr 7, 2022)

Jbu50 said:


> I tried white juice buckets from Chile last spring for the first time - tried a Chardonnay, Viognier, and a Sauvignon Blanc. Mediocre results...but the strangest thing is that they all kind of taste the same. I can’t figure it out.


Chile has a great Cab Sav(best known) - if u get ur hands on some get it - u will not be disappointed 
made some years ago - Wow! - to this day never made a cab Sav that good


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## Jbu50 (Apr 8, 2022)

I'm going to try some red juice pails in the coming weeks that are arriving fresh from Chile. Last time I tried red juice pails I wasn't impressed, but that was 10 years ago. Have things improved with red juice pails? My understanding is that because they don't contain skins they will be light and lack body especially if you're trying out some big heavy hitters.


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## Chuck E (Apr 8, 2022)

I always add grapes to the pails. Or at least frozen grape skins from a previous batch.


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## Rocky (Apr 8, 2022)

Jbu50 said:


> I'm going to try some red juice pails in the coming weeks that are arriving fresh from Chile. Last time I tried red juice pails I wasn't impressed, but that was 10 years ago. Have things improved with red juice pails? My understanding is that because they don't contain skins they will be light and lack body especially if you're trying out some big heavy hitters.


You might PM joeswine and ask him for some suggestions on adding body to the wines. I don't think Joe is a big fan of juice buckets, but he may offer some insight. As Chuck says above, adding a lug of crushed grape of the same or similar variety will help. I have done this after cooking out about 1/2 the water in the crushed grapes and allowing them to cool before pitching the yeast.


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## Jbu50 (Apr 8, 2022)

So, the extraction process for red juice pails hasn't improved? Anybody have experience with thermo-flash juice pails and how they extract colour and body for red wines?


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## Rocky (Apr 8, 2022)

Jbu50 said:


> So, the extraction process for red juice pails hasn't improved? Anybody have experience with thermo-flash juice pails and how they extract colour and body for red wines?


I would not say it hasn't improved, but I do find juice pails inconsistent from year to year and from country to country. Just my experience, others may differ.


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## BABRU (Apr 8, 2022)

Seeing the red juice bucket negative comments posted compelled me to comment that my experience is opposite, nothing but excellent results for me, especially Chilean Carmenere and Malbec. My reds are bulk aged for a year then bottle aged for several more.


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## BMarNJ (Apr 9, 2022)

I don’t have a lot of winemaking equipment, so I rely on juice pails, but I also add fresh grapes. 18 or 36lbs per bucket and have good results. This spring I am trying my first all grape wine, but I know it wii be tough w/o a crusher and a good press, but it will be good experience. I’ll be back to buckets in the fall.
When I taste the cab sav juice from a chilean bucket, I think it is absolutely delicious, how can you go wrong?


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## heatherd (Apr 27, 2022)

BMarNJ said:


> I don’t have a lot of winemaking equipment, so I rely on juice pails, but I also add fresh grapes. 18 or 36lbs per bucket and have good results. This spring I am trying my first all grape wine, but I know it wii be tough w/o a crusher and a good press, but it will be good experience. I’ll be back to buckets in the fall.
> When I taste the cab sav juice from a chilean bucket, I think it is absolutely delicious, how can you go wrong?


I do some all-grape batches and find I can press by hand easily. I get them crushed where I buy them or buy frozen all-grape must that's already crushed. Worst case you can do a batch where you leave the clusters whole. Here's an article about it.








Stemmy Wines? Let's Talk Whole Cluster Fermentation! | Wine Folly


We hear about whole cluster fermentation more and more each year. Perhaps you've also heard how wines sometimes taste "stemmy." So, what's the benefit?




winefolly.com


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## BMarNJ (Apr 28, 2022)

heatherd said:


> I do some all-grape batches and find I can press by hand easily. I get them crushed where I buy them or buy frozen all-grape must that's already crushed. Worst case you can do a batch where you leave the clusters whole. Here's an article about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting read, thanks. My supplier doesn’t provide crushing, so I’ll enlist some friends, and maybe I will toss a few whole clusters in this time. Doing the de-stemming and crushing by hand is time consuming, but we’ll just have to make a party out of of it.


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## tullamore (Apr 28, 2022)

BMarNJ said:


> I don’t have a lot of winemaking equipment, so I rely on juice pails, but I also add fresh grapes. 18 or 36lbs per bucket and have good results. This spring I am trying my first all grape wine, but I know it wii be tough w/o a crusher and a good press, but it will be good experience. I’ll be back to buckets in the fall.
> When I taste the cab sav juice from a chilean bucket, I think it is absolutely delicious, how can you go wrong?


i would go with a 2-i ratio - 2 pails 1 lug - 1-1 is getting to thick 
u can go wrong many ways - as u know wine making is very finicky - i've said this in many posts - sanitize everything - when u think it s clean - clean again!!
this was instilled from my father - helping him out in the 1970s 
i find the home wine maker (IMO) doesn't see the importance of cleanliness


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## kevinlfifer (Apr 29, 2022)

I have not posted for quite some time. First, hello Rocky, hope all is well. I got a Malbec drum last spring, quite thin, drinks OK but not exciting. In 2018 i bought a drum of Amorone, It was spectacular. So I also see a bit of hit and miss on juice. Just picked up a drum of Chilean Cab Sav, bucket of Sangiovese and some Merlot conc. I will spit the drum into a Cab Sauv batch and a Super (Chilean) Tuscan.


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## Dorotystew (May 7, 2022)

cmason1957 said:


> My opinion on juice buckets is I am unable to make a wine I want to drink or of any juice bucket and just don't bother with them any longer.


to be honest
FACTS


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## cmason1957 (May 7, 2022)

Dorotystew said:


> to be honest
> FACTS



Facts: I had made wine from various juice bucket suppliers, can't give you names at this point. I often find that no matter what varietal was stamped on the bucket, they tasted very similar at the start. Grapes weren't available from the place were the buckets came from, so adding those want a choice. They were always a bit less dark than I wanted them to be. Just decided they weren't for me and moved on.


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## kevinlfifer (May 9, 2022)

I'm still a fan of juice. In the fall I add 4 lugs of grapes to a drum. In the spring I add concentrate as grapes from South America are not available. So far so good on the current batch. I lost 18 gal of it to my mooching brother who decided to start making wine last year.


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## distancerunner (May 9, 2022)

We did an Australian Shiraz bucket in January 2020. Bottled in January 2022. Sorry we didn’t get two. 

Did a Chianti bucket at the same time. It’s just okay. Tad on the tart side. 

They’re convenient. But they’re a crap shoot. 

I’d rather work with grapes.


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## three_jeeps (May 9, 2022)

I've tried making wine from juice from buckets and kits with grape skins. IMHO, the product made with the skins has a much fuller mouth feel and body. So my question is where to order skins to compliment the juice buckets?
J


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## BMarNJ (May 9, 2022)

I’ve only made wine from all grapes, or grapes added to a juice bucket. My supplier sells both, can’t your bucket supplier also supply grapes?


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## three_jeeps (May 9, 2022)

BMarNJ said:


> I’ve only made wine from all grapes, or grapes added to a juice bucket. My supplier sells both, can’t your bucket supplier also supply grapes?


no, that is why I am asking


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## wineview (May 10, 2022)

three_jeeps said:


> I've tried making wine from juice from buckets and kits with grape skins. IMHO, the product made with the skins has a much fuller mouth feel and body. So my question is where to order skins to compliment the juice buckets?
> J


I have the same question


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## JTS84 (May 10, 2022)

When I picked up my juice at Midwest they had Mosti AllGrape packs there to purchase in store. I got one to add to my Carmenere juice; this will be my first time trying it out.

I haven't seen any skin packs listed for sale online. When FWKs came out you could choose between adding one or two skin packs. I wondered why they weren't available separately then.


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## Chuck E (May 11, 2022)

Use the internet to search for Mosti Allgrape packs. I used them before and they do add to the body of juice buckets,


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## joemercurio (May 12, 2022)

Chuck E said:


> Use the internet to search for Mosti Allgrape packs. I used them before and they do add to the body of juice buckets,


I sell the allgrape packs that are produced from Mosti good product when I can get it. Adds body and color to your red wines!
Joe Mercurio
614.237.3333
[email protected]


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## Mpmare00 (May 12, 2022)

So who has the best juice in the USA ?


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## Spencerthebuilder (May 13, 2022)

Picking up 2 pails of Chilean juice at my local supplier tomorrow. Planning on adding a lug of CabSav between the buckets. Destemming by hand. Has anyone tried using a Kitchen Aid or comparable higher end countertop mixer to do the crushing? Easy clean up and i don't have a crusher. FWK seems to be including seeds now. I read the breaking or cutting the seeds produces a bitter taste. Too much tannin? But a dough hook and slow speed should release juice and produce a nice must slurry. Thoughts?


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## joemercurio (May 13, 2022)

Mpmare00 said:


> So who has the best juice in the USA ?


hard answer there if i had to say i would rate as follows:
calif
italian
chile
south african


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## QuiQuog (May 13, 2022)

three_jeeps said:


> I've tried making wine from juice from buckets and kits with grape skins. IMHO, the product made with the skins has a much fuller mouth feel and body. So my question is where to order skins to compliment the juice buckets?
> J


Here's a place that has them





Natural Grapes for Winemaking


These 100% Natural Grapes are the ideal grape additives to kit wines and wine made from juices. Adding actual grapes into the fermenter results in wines with more body, character, and structure. This additive pack can be shipped easily.




www.juicegrape.com


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## Mpmare00 (May 13, 2022)

joemercurio said:


> hard answer there if i had to say i would rate as follows:
> calif
> italian
> chile
> south african


Thanks! How about companies or websites? I’ve been searching CA and pricing varies quite a bit. Juice states from x vineyard and I can’t find anything online about x vineyard. I found one CA online source that looks great, sells must with frozen grapes. However, they are very expensive. I just want to make sure whoever I buy from is not a waste because it’s all money and time. Thanks!


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## BMarNJ (May 13, 2022)

Spencerthebuilder said:


> Picking up 2 pails of Chilean juice at my local supplier tomorrow. Planning on adding a lug of CabSav between the buckets. Destemming by hand. Has anyone tried using a Kitchen Aid or comparable higher end countertop mixer to do the crushing? Easy clean up and i don't have a crusher. FWK seems to be including seeds now. I read the breaking or cutting the seeds produces a bitter taste. Too much tannin? But a dough hook and slow speed should release juice and produce a nice must slurry. Thoughts?


How many lbs in your lug? My supplier sells 18lb lugs from Chile in the Spring and 36 lb lugs from California in the fall. Either way, one lug won’t take any time to destem and crush. I think they may just roll around with the dough hook and you’ll need to be messing with it. You can crush them by hand as you pull them off the stem or put them in a bucket and crush with a potato masher or a length of 2x4. Just don’t do too many at one time. I use 36lbs for each pail which comes out to 8 gallons finished product.


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## joemercurio (May 14, 2022)

Mpmare00 said:


> Thanks! How about companies or websites? I’ve been searching CA and pricing varies quite a bit. Juice states from x vineyard and I can’t find anything online about x vineyard. I found one CA online source that looks great, sells must with frozen grapes. However, they are very expensive. I just want to make sure whoever I buy from is not a waste because it’s all money and time. Thanks!


what part of ca do you live in?


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## joemercurio (May 14, 2022)

Mpmare00 said:


> Thanks! How about companies or websites? I’ve been searching CA and pricing varies quite a bit. Juice states from x vineyard and I can’t find anything online about x vineyard. I found one CA online source that looks great, sells must with frozen grapes. However, they are very expensive. I just want to make sure whoever I buy from is not a waste because it’s all money and time. Thanks!


www.mercurioproduce.com


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