# Special Project with 2013 Vino Superiore Sangiovese



## gitmo234 (Jan 31, 2018)

Hey everyone,

Been a long time since I've posted. Long story short, I've been deployed to a combat zone and back, and now I'm back, and since then, my wife and I are expecting. 

I've had a lot of trouble readjusting and finally one day I thought that I needed to get back into some hobbies from before I left. Keep me occupied so I'm not working then coming home and just sitting in the same chair until I go to sleep.

I had some ideas then it came to me that I want to try my hand with some real juice and make some wine while my wife is pregnant. A commemorative. By the time it gets fully done, along with some aging she'll be able to drink again and we can crack a young bottle and celebrate, as well as keep it around and let it age. Memories I guess.

I found some Vino Superiore and ordered it. We both love Sangiovese. Our tastes are the somewhat the same. 

I've spent a lot of time reading the step by step, day by days of a few people who did the same, so I plan on posting here as I go to get suggestions or pointers. I'm pretty new at this and I've had some kit wines that were mediocre or just outright bad. Smelled and tasted like plastic. 

As of right now, the bucket is thawing in the basement. It's rock hard/ice. I've got yeast and yeast nutrient ready for when it gets closer to being thawed.

I plan on sanitizing the hell out of one of my fermenting buckets and transferring once its ready. I bought a refractometer for testing and to get some basics stats. I have something to punch down the cap. I plan on ordering an all in one pump from vacumpumpman later on as well. What am I missing? What should I pay attention to at this stage?


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 31, 2018)

First off, thank you. Thank you for putting yourself in harm's way. Glad you are back and OK. 

Sounds like you have a solid plan. The only thing I can think to add is a pH meter. Not sure why your kit wines tasted like plastic - were you fermenting/storing in the right kinds of vessels?


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## pillswoj (Jan 31, 2018)

Maybe get a hydrometer, refractometers are a pain once alcohol is present


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## gitmo234 (Jan 31, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Sounds like you have a solid plan. The only thing I can think to add is a pH meter. Not sure why your kit wines tasted like plastic - were you fermenting/storing in the right kinds of vessels?



It was in a standard bucket you get a brew store. I'm sure it was a sanitation issue or some fault like that. plastic is the best I can describe it. 



Hydrometer is there as well. Waiting on this thing to thaw


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## gitmo234 (Feb 2, 2018)

Okay folks, its almost 48 hours after I got the must and its almost to temp. Its about 50 degrees now.

I was reading about the yeast strain I have. Lavlin RC-212, and there are a few posts about people having trouble with it, and I'm considering buying some Cellar Science optired and fermaid. 

Any input on these:

1) is there a downside to pitching the yeast when its a touch too cold? I'm considering it to reduce risk (get it started now so there's less chance of it going bad with me checking the temp)

2) Should I pick up the products I mentioned at the local brew store?

3) My fermentation bucket is clean and sanitized but has a tint of color to it from fermenting beer as well. any issues there?


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## cmason1957 (Feb 2, 2018)

3) I would not ferment wine in a bucket that I had fermented beer in. I would be (and am) afraid that I would get cross taste issues.

1) I never just pitch the yeast, I rehydrate and make sure the temp of the yeast starter is fairly near (+/- 10 deg F) of what it is going into. I would throw some sulfite in, probably about now and let it sit for a day, before pitching.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 2, 2018)

Thanks! I decided to have some patience. We're at about 60 degrees F now. I dropped in a floating thermometer and hydrometer for now. I picked up some opti-red, a new bucket and some fermax.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 3, 2018)

Update:

We have lift off. After no change in temperature (roughly 63-65 degrees) for several hours I inoculated with RC212, mediocrely rehydrated with go-ferm, and I added opti-red. I have Fermax for later stages, once the specific gravity/brix drops a bit. 

I have a feeling I've partially discovered the cause of my mixed results in the past. I lived in PA at the time, and we had a well with a bacterial infection and had no idea. We discovered it when it finally got so bad that it was staining our clothes a rust color and the water smelled like sulfur. Completely harmless to humans but just nasty otherwise. 

The other is that in the past I was using cleaner as sanitizer, not both. That may or may not make a difference.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 4, 2018)

This stuff is COOKING today. Not in temperature but it is fermenting away. Brix was somewhere about 16 or 15.x. It isn't super clear in the refractometer, I've got a good thing going and I'm hesitant to pull out enough to test with a hydrometer. It's so thick with grapes that a hydrometer won't give an accurate reading in the bucket. Wont sink or won't float.

The cap was seemed to be at least 6 inches tall. I'm punching it down 3 times a day and the floating thermometer is reading right about 70 degrees. I add 1.25 teaspoons of fermax today to push it through to the end.

Looks like I'll racking and pressing in a few days once the cap falls. Need some advice here. 

I don't have the gear for MLF testing, but I do have the inoculation for it. Is this something I can more or less just eyeball/wait out? Rack, press, combine in a carboy and inoculate for MLF, and close. Watch for tiny bubbles, once they stop, just let it age another month and assume its done?

Finally... I'm kinda on the fence on about oaking. An over-oaked wine is horrible, and I normally can't pick out much oak anyway. I like a lot of the old world style big italian wines. Given the option I'm opting for a Barolo, Chianti, or something spanish like a tempranillo. I was thinking about a very very light oak, for about 5 gallons, if I drop one light american or french oak stick into the wine. Should I do it during MLF or after in bulk aging?


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## pillswoj (Feb 4, 2018)

Oak while bulk aging, that way you can monitor the level of oak. Also oak fades as the wine ages so normally oak to a bit more taste then you want.


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## cmason1957 (Feb 4, 2018)

I am hoping that you know your Brix number from your refractometer is not correct once alcohol is present. You can correct for it, but your hydrometer won't lie to you about the number.

Also just winging when mlf is done is generally not a good idea. It is such a subtle "fermentation" that you may think it is complete, when it hasn't even really started. At a minimum, buy the acuvin tests that tell you how much malic acid is present. Do a test in about two weeks and again every two weeks.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 4, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> I am hoping that you know your Brix number from your refractometer is not correct once alcohol is present. You can correct for it, but your hydrometer won't lie to you about the number.



Guess I’m gonna have to suck it up (literally) and actually pull some out to get a hydrometer reading.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 4, 2018)

I've decided I'm not going to screw with it for now. When the cap starts falling/stops rising i'll have a good idea where it's at, and I'll get the grapes out to press, while I rack I'll take a sample and get a good hydrometer reading to see exactly where I'm at.

So the plan is as follows:

Once the cap falls, sieve out the grapes and press into sanitized bucket
rack the current juice into a carboy 
combine with juice from the press
Top up with glass marbles
After 24-48 hours rack off the gross lees into bucket, clean and sanitize carboy and rack back into carboy/top off again
Inoculate with MLF bacteria
Add in light American oak sticks
Age for approximately 6 months 
Bottle and age more

Am I missing anything here? Any other suggestions?


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## gitmo234 (Feb 6, 2018)

So we're still in business. Ordered some new testing equipment (tube, wine thief, etc) sanitized and tested. Brix is currently just above 2. Side and unrelated note, brix in a refractometer measured above 5, so its not just off, its WAY off when measured that way. hydrometer measurement would put it about 2.5 or closer to 2. 

Fermentation is still steady but not as vigorous. I'm guessing another 24 hours and we'll be slowing to a stop. 

My press is arriving in the mail in the next day or two, so I'm basically ready, although, I'm debating getting a new carboy since I've made beer in these in the past. No visible evidence but I'm just hesitant and want this to be as close to perfect as possible. 

I think I've figured out some previous errors and what that "plastic" taste was. when I sampled a tiny sip today, it tasted like the gross lees. I'm thinking that previously i let some of my wine sit on gross lees and got some smell/flavors stuck in it maybe. 

If anyone has any feedback or insight on my plan above, please let me know.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 9, 2018)

Well this went to SHIT really quick. All because I tried to half-ass some shit. I went to press the grapes and rack the wine. used the best strainer I could find to strain out all the grapes (that I could see). Then I turn on my pump.

Shit... my carboy isnt standard sized so my bung wont fit. I improvise by wrapping my palm around it tight and it takes. Starts pumping. Not knowing I had not gotten all the grapes out, because I half assed the straining, the plastic carboy starts to collapse in on itself rather than pumping wine. I kinda scramble to figure it out and the bucket tips over. So I had a quarter of a carboy (roughly) and nothing smaller. 

grapes all over the floor. Dumped what was left down the drain, and threw any "half assed" equipment out. Plastic carboys...gone. older equipment i tried to improvise with..gone.

Starting over. Ordering more grapes and materials, and ordering regular, standard, glass carboys, and stuff for making wine. Not improvising. no more rushing to failure


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 10, 2018)

Oh, that's heartbreaking to read. Sorry to hear. 

Regarding your earlier post on tasting the gross lees: sometimes that goes a way with just a racking or two. Others, not so much. But I have found that time usually handles most of it. I've had one or two wines that were in secondary too long and tasted strongly of the gross lees when I racked. A week or two after racking, they were fine.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 10, 2018)

Well, I have vino superiore Nebbiolo on the way, as well as a glass carboy (standard fit), etc


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## Ajmassa (Feb 10, 2018)

Where are you ordering your frozen must from? And what was the straining method? Getting the liquid separate from the solids at press time is just one of those things man. Seems like everyone is slightly different and don’t find their method of choice without some trial and error. 
After pressing if you ever find yourself in a similar situation you can always just nix the pumping altogether. Last resort you can just dump it into the carboy through a funnel and cheesecloth after pressing. Not the end of the world. Many of the old timers still do it this way. 
No worries about some solids making it too. A day or 2 later most will drop out and then siphon rack. By the next rack your clear.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 11, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Where are you ordering your frozen must from? And what was the straining method? Getting the liquid separate from the solids at press time is just one of those things man. Seems like everyone is slightly different and don’t find their method of choice without some trial and error.
> After pressing if you ever find yourself in a similar situation you can always just nix the pumping altogether. Last resort you can just dump it into the carboy through a funnel and cheesecloth after pressing. Not the end of the world. Many of the old timers still do it this way.
> No worries about some solids making it too. A day or 2 later most will drop out and then siphon rack. By the next rack your clear.



I'm getting my grapes from here:
http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/shop/wine/frozen-grapes-and-juice/vino-superiore-italian.html

Pricey, but this time of year I cant find a better source


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 11, 2018)

gitmo234 said:


> Pricey, but this time of year I cant find a better source



In a couple months, Chilean grapes will be available.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 11, 2018)

gitmo234 said:


> I'm getting my grapes from here:
> http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/shop/wine/frozen-grapes-and-juice/vino-superiore-italian.html
> 
> Pricey, but this time of year I cant find a better source



I know keystone well. By far the biggest shop I’ve ever seen. More like a warehouse. Didn’t know they sold frozen must. Did you order online or pick up in store?


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## gitmo234 (Feb 11, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I know keystone well. By far the biggest shop I’ve ever seen. More like a warehouse. Didn’t know they sold frozen must. Did you order online or pick up in store?



I order online and its here within 2-3 business days


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## Ajmassa (Feb 11, 2018)

Awesome. Some nice 2013 Italian must available. How bout you try to not spill the Nebbiolo all over the floor this time.


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## gitmo234 (Feb 11, 2018)

That's the plan. On a positive note, the whole house still smells like wine!


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## gitmo234 (Feb 25, 2018)

So we're now in MLF. I ended up with 3.5 gallons of Nebbiolo. I have one 3 gallon carboy to the brim and a single one-gallon jug that is half marble/half wine. 

I dropped in two light American oak sticks into the 3 gallon carboy and left the 1 gallon alone. So far this is phenomenal. It's brand new and if this is the starting point I think we've got a winner

My biggest problem now is anxiousness while it ages with nothing to do, so I've ordered another frozen must from winegrapesdirect. Should be here on saturday


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## gitmo234 (Jul 7, 2018)

Bumping this because, although its a bit early, I bottled the Nebbiolo about 3 weeks ago. The tannins were SUPER strong. Made me pucker. Decided to crack a bottle tonight just to do an "approximate month" status check and the tannins have calmed to an enjoyable level and everything is great.


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## angus padius (Jul 18, 2018)

Good morning, sorry I can ask a question, why do you put the wood chips in aging?


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## Ajmassa (Jul 18, 2018)

angus padius said:


> Good morning, sorry I can ask a question, why do you put the wood chips in aging?



To mimic a barrel age feel. Also can use cubes- spirals- stave segments - or an actual barrel. 
Chips/powder in primary help with removing vegetal characteristics in the wine, giving more structure
And mouthfeel (they say).


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## angus padius (Jul 22, 2018)

Thanks for the answer, in Italy, generally not used, only large companies to make large quantities, here the producers rely more on selected yeasts to enhance the aromas and hints of the wine.


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