# Is it too early to start thinking about 2017 season?



## NorCal (Dec 13, 2016)

The old saying, "you can make bad wine from good grapes, but you can't make good wine from bad grapes" has always made me search for the best fruit I can buy. My experience with small, home run vineyards has not been that great. Buying from commercial vineyards can be tricky, as we've been dropped more than once when there is a shortage of good fruit o go around.

So, the best approach I have found is through relationships with the vineyard managers. Being super flexible; next day, mid week harvest notice, buy a full ton, pay immediately, thank you email...etc.

To that end, @4Score need to get our plans together. Cab Franc is definitely one of the grape varieties and the headliner. Now, finding good stand alone varietals, which are also good blending partners, that we can get from known commercial vineyards is our task at hand.

Syrah from this year.


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 13, 2016)

Like you, I'm already thinking about next fall. I'm thinking of giving Pinot Noir a try - I've been very happy with the grapes from Lanza so why not? I haven't gotten much beyond that though. Already have a Rose and two white kits in the pipeline. That'll round out my 'light' wines for the year. Still working on other reds or red blends from grapes though. But its never too early to start!


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## Brub58 (Dec 13, 2016)

I've been thinking about it for months. Grapes are ordered and confirmed - 150kg Canaiolo, 80kg Vermentino, and 80kg Riesling. The Canaiolo should be ready late Jan or early Feb and the whites in March.

Plus I got an early Christmas press-ent yesterday. The shop had a 10%off sale last week and I've had my eye on this all year.


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## NorCal (Dec 14, 2016)

Oh...love that press


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## ibglowin (Dec 14, 2016)

I would say that press is angled just about right since it is located "down under"!


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## Johny99 (Dec 14, 2016)

Brub58 you will love the press. I bought one this year, what a time saver over the basket press.


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## Brub58 (Dec 14, 2016)

I hope so John. On the original topic, I am really looking forward to 2017 vintage. I moved house (downsized) in 2015 and with selling the old house and fixing up the new unit I didn't make wine that year. This year I thought I would and had grapes ordered, but we had a hot summer and everything was early. I came back from holidays and rang the grower to discover it was all over and I'd missed out. The wine guild had ordered 1200kg of Malbec for next year, but a hail storm/mini-tornado went through the vineyard a couple of months ago and wiped out half the crop, so we've now split between Malbec and Canaiolo to get the volume we need for everybody. Vintage can't come soon enough for me. At least I don't have to wait an extra 6 months like you guys!


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## jgmann67 (Dec 15, 2016)

With any luck, I'll be a happy wine maker this fall. Not sure what I want to make, though. Maybe I'll reconsider that blend I was thinking about last year. But I'm with Jim (Boatboy) - Lanza grapes were very good last year.


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## JohnT (Dec 15, 2016)

Very nice bladder press! May only great wines spring from it. 

2017??? Sheeeesh! 

I can't even think about that yet. I have a TON of 2015 bottling to do, racking, cleaning, organizing, vacations, gardening, and cooking before any of that can happen. 

2017? Great, put yet another worry in my head. Now I will never get any sleep.


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## 4score (Dec 20, 2016)

I agree we need to get plans together and "reserved" for 2017. It can get quite competitive around here!

Cab Franc will likely be the primary grape and we can look for blending partners like Petite Syrah for sure. There's another wrinkle....to go to the Cab Franc route, we would be leaving one vineyard and going back to our original source. The one we'd be leaving has been doing an amazing job for us, most recently with Barbera. They don't grow Cab Franc. Our Barbera has been getting more praise than anything else we've done. I worry about getting "out of line" with this vineyard if we (@Norcal and @4score) go back solely to the other vineyard. So, I think we should try and reserve some amount of 2017 Barbera grapes. We're lucky to be recognized customers of this vineyard since their policy is only to sell to commercial wineries. So, perhaps Cab Franc and Petite Syrah from one vineyard and Barbera at the other vineyard.

I can't believe we're already thinking about 2017 orders!


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## FreddyC (Dec 20, 2016)

I start my 2017 planning now. Some of it has to do with how I prune my vineyard and some which grapes I want to work with. My wine club has a grape buying co-op, but after you've belonged for awhile it's nice to start looking elsewhere as well. I've got a couple/three growers of Pinot I will be contacting once spring comes on.


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## NorCal (Dec 21, 2016)

It is a struggle to get top quality fruit as a home winemaker. I've been disappointed by mom and pop vineyards, so I hear ya @4score, we need to maintain our relationships to get top quality fruit.


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## NorCal (Mar 11, 2017)

I thought I would follow up. @4Score and I are each planning on making a 60 gallon barrel of Cab Franc with 20% Petite Syrah co-fermented. We will also be getting a 1/2 ton of Chardonnay and a ton of Tempranillo which we will be going in with @BusaBill. There are also some other friends taking wine after fermentation. Total volume of grapes will be 7,000 pounds!


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## AKsarben (Mar 22, 2017)

We have around 230 acres of different varieties. Then we have contract growers. So hoping the spring is cold until the frost danger is past. Last year we fermented around 200,000 gallons of wine, and about 350,000 gallons of apple cider, for outside clients and us. Today, we centrifuged the 2016 Vidal Icewine "B" our second batch. Alcohol of 10.88 and RS somewhere around 21%, and around 2300 gallons of that sticky stuff. LOL


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## downunder (Mar 28, 2017)

Well vintage 2017 is just about over. Waiting for the last of the Shiraz to get super sweet so we can make port. The grape quality (and quantity) are spectacular. For the first time in 40 years have not had to irrigate the vines. Only problem is that every other grape grower has had the same vintage and wineries are rationing how many grapes they take from each grower. Who would own a vineyard lol.


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## Brub58 (Mar 28, 2017)

downunder said:


> Well vintage 2017 is just about over. Waiting for the last of the Shiraz to get super sweet so we can make port. The grape quality (and quantity) are spectacular. For the first time in 40 years have not had to irrigate the vines. Only problem is that every other grape grower has had the same vintage and wineries are rationing how many grapes they take from each grower. Who would own a vineyard lol.



Where are you based? My wine guild had their allocation cut back due to storm damage around Mildura before Christmas. We ended up getting a mix of Sagrantino, Malbec, and Nero D'avola to make up the numbers. I got the Sagrantino and it went in the barrel at the weekend. I'm still waiting for grapes from the Yarra Valley, so we're not done yet.


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## JohnT (Mar 29, 2017)

Well, Look like my 2017 season is about to start in two weeks.

Placed my Chilean grape order yesterday. My plan is to do 300 liters of 85 cab franc/15 merlot. Grapes seem to be the same price as last year ($25 per half-lug). 

Going forward, the next several months looks like this...

4/1, 4/8 - Wash bottles, maintain equipment, and get ready for bottling. Do a full cellar tasting on 4/8 (end of my lent.. WooHoo).

4/15, 4/29 - Enjoy Easter and Bottle, Bottle, Bottle!!! Wine is urgently needed for my Niece's Wedding and associated family gatherings. My brother's cellar is so dry that the Sahara Desert looks like a swamp by comparison. We also need to free up a barrel for the 2015 reserve, and then a 300 liter tank for Chilean Crush.

5/6 - My Niece (the daughter I always wanted) gets married. It is just like my niece to think that her wedding is more important than my winemaking. So self-centered.. (sigh)... I guess I will just have to humor her.. LOL

5/13, 5/20 - Estimated arrival of the Chilean grapes is 5/11 so, on 5/13, I will be picking them up and crushing them. I then plan to press them on 5/20 (followed by the traditional steak dinner).

5/27 - Maintain and put away all equipment from Chilean crush and give the winery a good cleaning.

6/3 - My Wife's birthday, so the whole world must STOP!

6/17,6/24, 7/1 - Rack Chilean and Bottle, bottle, bottle! 

7/6 - 7/9 - Enjoying the 4 day Briggs Blues Festival and Camping experience. 


After limited activity since last November (the last full racking), I am actually looking forward to having things gear up!!!


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## downunder (Mar 30, 2017)

Brub58 said:


> Where are you based? My wine guild had their allocation cut back due to storm damage around Mildura before Christmas. We ended up getting a mix of Sagrantino, Malbec, and Nero D'avola to make up the numbers. I got the Sagrantino and it went in the barrel at the weekend. I'm still waiting for grapes from the Yarra Valley, so we're not done yet.



Half way between the Barossa Valley and Adelaide. Still trying to sell some of my Shiraz, Grenache and Sangiovese


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## NorCal (Aug 12, 2017)

Dropped the bins off for the @4Score and my Cabernet! It is still 4-6 weeks out, but better at the vineyard than there than in my way.


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## 4score (Aug 13, 2017)

Very exciting! This reminds me of the movie, "Sideways".


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## NorCal (Aug 28, 2017)

Let the show begin! One ton of Tempranillo with @4Score and @Busabill n Friday, a half ton of Chardonnay wth the same group on Saturday. It looks like the big two ton ferment of Cab Sauv will be next week some time, oh my!


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## ibglowin (Aug 29, 2017)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6eQ78HCGEA[/ame]





NorCal said:


> Let the show begin! One ton of Tempranillo with @4Score and @Busabill n Friday, a half ton of Chardonnay wth the same group on Saturday. It looks like the big two ton ferment of Cab Sauv will be next week some time, oh my!


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## Kraffty (Aug 29, 2017)

Looks like our order will be ready to pick up on the 15th, or possible 22nd. Up to almost 1000lbs this year. Ended up at .80/lb. plus the gas for a 450 mile drive. As others have mentioned the central valley Pinots aren't available or are sold out but Colavita does have northern coastal Pinot avail. at a little higher cost, 49.00 a lug I think. I'll probably throw in 3 lugs for Lori's personal stash. Bottled 42 gallons sunday in less than 3 hours with just 2 of us. Carboys get a few weeks off to rest up for their 2017 fill ups. We're doing a Cab with a splash of Merlot and for the first time a Zin blend 50% zin, 25% merlot and 25% cab field blend.
Mike


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## jgmann67 (Aug 29, 2017)

Kraffty said:


> We're doing a Cab with a splash of Merlot and for the first time a Zin blend 50% zin, 25% merlot and 25% cab field blend.
> Mike




Question from the unindoctrinated... a three grape field bled? Posts I've seen indicate 2 is fine, but more than that is trouble. Always thought it was because you'd want to do different trial blends before settling in on what tastes best. But, I'm a noob.


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## Boatboy24 (Aug 30, 2017)

About half of my 2016 wine will end up as a blend of Zin, Cab, Syrah and Petite Sirah.


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## Kraffty (Aug 30, 2017)

@jgmann67 - I found an interesting list that had a number of "classic" blend percentages of Burgandy and Claret style wines. Of course I can't find the site now that I want to re-visit it. The Zin, Cab & Merlot combo came up with percentages all over the place and this 50-25-25 just sounded right to me. I don't think I'm skilled enough yet to know how well this will work out but I just don't see how this combo can come out bad. I do think you're right that ideally making all separately and blending would be the best but limited space time and experience are really the reasons for going this way this year. 
Mike


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## ibglowin (Aug 30, 2017)

Great Minds think alike! My 2013 Tres Rojo's Blend was exactly that ratio and turned out very, very nice. Won a few medals as well with it.



Kraffty said:


> The Zin, Cab & Merlot combo came up with percentages all over the place and this 50-25-25 just sounded right to me. I don't think I'm skilled enough yet to know how well this will work out but I just don't see how this combo can come out bad.


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## Kraffty (Aug 30, 2017)

Cool, I didn't really have any doubts but that lends a bit of confidence. Now all I gotta do is not screw it up!
Thanks, Mike


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## jgmann67 (Aug 30, 2017)

Kraffty said:


> Cool, I didn't really have any doubts but that lends a bit of confidence. Now all I gotta do is not screw it up!
> Thanks, Mike



Ahhh, the (Alan) Shepard prayer.


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## ceeaton (Aug 30, 2017)

jgmann67 said:


> Question from the unindoctrinated... a three grape field bled? Posts I've seen indicate 2 is fine, but more than that is trouble. Always thought it was because you'd want to do different trial blends before settling in on what tastes best. But, I'm a noob.



BTW, that Melot of mine that you've tried from Chilean grapes was 70% Merlot, 15% Cab Sauv and 15% Malbec. I'll bring another bottle if you remind me next time I visit. I just think I overdid the Tannin Extra Riche in that one, hoping time will fix that.


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## jgmann67 (Aug 30, 2017)

ceeaton said:


> BTW, that Melot of mine that you've tried from Chilean grapes was 70% Merlot, 15% Cab Sauv and 15% Malbec. I'll bring another bottle if you remind me next time I visit. I just think I overdid the Tannin Extra Riche in that one, hoping time will fix that.




For me it just begs the question - should I just field blend the Cab and Merlot up front, then add the PV to taste after a year aging.


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## jgmann67 (Aug 30, 2017)

ceeaton said:


> BTW, that Melot of mine that you've tried from Chilean grapes was 70% Merlot, 15% Cab Sauv and 15% Malbec. I'll bring another bottle if you remind me next time I visit. I just think I overdid the Tannin Extra Riche in that one, hoping time will fix that.




Twist my arm, Craig.


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## NorCal (Sep 1, 2017)

It's 5:40am and the day is beginning. I need to check on the crew that is harvesting Petite Sirah in the community, then it's off to get one ton of Tempranillo with @4Score and @BusaBill Let the fun begin!


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## ibglowin (Sep 1, 2017)

Pics, we want some pics! 



NorCal said:


> It's 5:40am and the day is beginning. I need to check on the crew that is harvesting Petite Sirah in the community, then it's off to get one ton of Tempranillo with @4Score and @BusaBill Let the fun begin!


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## NorCal (Sep 1, 2017)

Here's a few


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## NorCal (Sep 1, 2017)

A few more. We knocked out a ton (literally) of Tempranillo in short order. The consensus was that the fruit was a 7.5/10. 25 brix, 4.0 pH out of the box. We will adjust to 3.8 pH.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 1, 2017)

NorCal said:


> View attachment 38799




And there's the man with the superhuman palate! (How could I forget that YouTube tasting notes video). The ace up your sleeve. Great pics!


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## NorCal (Sep 2, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> And there's the man with the superhuman palate! (How could I forget that YouTube tasting notes video). The ace up your sleeve. Great pics!




You are right! @4Score's super human son is meeting me at 7am tomorrow to go get 1,100 pounds of Chardonnay. Back to back wine making days in 110 degree weather, arg.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 2, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> And there's the man with the superhuman palate! (How could I forget that YouTube tasting notes video). The ace up your sleeve. Great pics!



And a brave man too - wearing a white shirt while processing grapes.


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## stickman (Sep 2, 2017)

@NorCal did you toss in a few fork-fulls of whole cluster with that Tempranillo? I don't have the option with frozen must, but we've done it a few times with fresh Amador fruit and had good results, additional spice, no need to fear green stems at low rates. Looks like you guys are having fun!


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## NorCal (Sep 2, 2017)

stickman said:


> @NorCal did you toss in a few fork-fulls of whole cluster with that Tempranillo? I don't have the option with frozen must, but we've done it a few times with fresh Amador fruit and had good results, additional spice, no need to fear green stems at low rates. Looks like you guys are having fun!



Funny you should mention that. We had one cluster that had eluded the pitch fork and was thrown in the bin whole and I said that now we can say it was partially whole cluster fermented, in jest. 

It's now 6:35am and Super Palate kid and I are driving to get the Chardonnay this morning, while @4Score and @Busabill readies the equipment.


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## NorCal (Sep 2, 2017)

Chardonnay is crushed and pressed and we all departed with our juice. 1175 pounds netted 80 gallons of juice, before settling. A very good yield with my buddy's 55 gallon basket press (yes he let me borrow it . 25.6 brix, 3.3 pH


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## ibglowin (Sep 2, 2017)

What you couldn't get any more in that basket!


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## Ajmassa (Sep 2, 2017)

Loving all your pictures. Seeing pictures of crush day and press day are great. I love getting a glimpse of everyone's different setups- from the smallest scale to the largest. Everyone has their own unique techniques in this hobby. Loving it


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 3, 2017)

Now that's a cake!


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## NorCal (Sep 9, 2017)

Pressing of the Tempranillo is in the books. Around 158 gallons gross from a ton of grapes. Smells, tastes great. pH is @4.0, despite adding 2 pounds of tartaric. It is, what it is.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 9, 2017)

Hey Norcal do you take TA numbers before you ferment? Or are you making acid additions based solely off ph?


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## NorCal (Sep 10, 2017)

It's a running joke between @4Score and I. I have everything necessary to measure TA, but never have. My thought is that pH is for SO2 efficacy, TA is for taste.

The grapes in our Sierra Foothills region are simply low in pH. The only exception I've seen is Barbera. We don't get the cool nights like Napa, that aid in acid retention. (Our grapes are also $1500 per ton and not the $6000+ per ton that they are in Napa). The rule of thumb for me is to not add more acid than 2 pounds per ton. The simple calculation is that 1 pound of tartaric should change the pH of 2,000 pounds of grapes by .1, but it never seems to do so. Additions over 2 pounds of tartaric to a ton of grapes (a little over 1 gram per liter) start to taste sour on the palate to me. 

The math is: 2 pounds is 907 grams, 1 tons is about 817 liters of must, so the addition is a little more than 1 gram per liter.


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## NorCal (Sep 12, 2017)

The calm before the storm. Getting the glass soldiers ready! The 25 gallons of Chardonnay is finishing up ferment and heading for glass. There is a carboy of topping wine for the 34 gallons of Tempranillo. Tomorrow I am going to press 5 gallons of Petit Verdot I snuck in, in between the big harvests and I'm going to start another 5 gallons of Cab Franc with the grapes in the front yard.


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## NorCal (Sep 13, 2017)

Got this pic today from the vineyard where @4Score and I are getting our 2 tons of cab from on Friday. Old vine, low producing Cab from Amador. These are the actual vines being harvested.


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## 4score (Sep 13, 2017)

Looking forward to seeing these amazing grapes this Friday! Since we just completed a crush and press of Tempranillo, I think I will have some great bench trialing to do with experimental blends. Straight Cab, Straight Tempranillo, Mostly Cab + Temp, Mostly Temp + Cab, 50/50. Wow....having these two varietals gives us a lot of options!


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## NorCal (Sep 15, 2017)

Got an email late last night the vineyard could pull up the harvest of our two tons of cab today from noon to 10:00. I told him, let's do it! We shall see if the grapes are truly as nice as the pics they sent. We are so fortunate that it finally started to cool. Mid 80's vs 100+ degrees. This is our biggest crush ever, there are 4 people total to process this massive amount of fruit. Perfection would be 26 brix, 3.6 and being able to go right into the destemmer without sorting. Let's see how close we come.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 15, 2017)

26 brix!!!???


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## NorCal (Sep 16, 2017)

A very long day. The grapes were as good as described! It was a bit of a stretch for my one owner 2000 F150 with 245k miles with no engine or trans work to carry 1000 lbs and tow 2000 lbs, but all went well.


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## NorCal (Sep 16, 2017)

Two tons was a lot of $$$ and a lot of fruit.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 16, 2017)

NorCal said:


> A very long day. The grapes were as good as described! It was a bit of a stretch for my one owner 2000 F150 with 245k miles with no engine or trans work to carry 1000 lbs and tow 2000 lbs, but all went well.



I think you had room for about three more clusters.


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## NorCal (Oct 13, 2017)

I really wanted to cut back this year; I've been doing around 150 gallons per year. The early plans for 2017 was to do a big barrel of Cab Franc, Chardonnay and I went along with Tempranillo only because @4Score wanted to do it. That original plan was changed when the Cab Franc vineyard had issues early on. The plans were adjusted and pretty simple. Do:

60 gallon Cab 
30 gallon Tempranillo
20 gallon Chardonnay

Ok, 110 gallons (550 bottles) is still a lot, but I have plenty of friends to drink it.

What did I end up with? (this is my wine, does not including other peoples wine, when it was made together)

79 Gallon Cab (received extra grapes from vineyard due to the low brix fruit we first received)
36 Gallon Tempranillo (little more than target, due to bladder press and juicy fruit)
25 Gallon Chard (little more than planned due to bladder press)
10 Gallon Cab Franc (decided to do, grapes from front yard, good to blend with Cab, since it was light brix)
5 Gallon Petit Verdot (decided to do, because I could get the grapes from a neighbor and good to blend with the Cab)
6 Gallon Cab Port (had extra Cab and relative wanted to do a port)
5 Gallon Second Run Cab (did it, because it only cost me 2 bags of sugar and was a little bored at the time)

So 166 gallons (830 bottles) worth of wine....just a lot more than I wanted to do, but each decision seem to make sense at the time. I plan on keeping the Cab in the big barrel for at least 18 months, so that should limit what I will have vessels to do next year and force me to be more disciplined.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 13, 2017)

This addiction (hobby) we have has a way of growing and growing, despite our best efforts. Like two days ago, after my wife and I had discussed we weren't going to make any more wine this year (since we have already done about 100 gallons), our local fruit stand calls and say we got boxes of strawberries on the verge of going bad, you can have them for $3/box (that's 8 lbs/box), but you have to take 10 boxes. So what did I do, drive around the corner to pick up 10 boxes, they found 3 more that I decided to decline and it was a good thing, our freezers (1 full-size, 2 with fridges) are full to capacity.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 13, 2017)

NorCal said:


> I plan on keeping the Cab in the big barrel for at least 18 months, so that should limit what I will have vessels to do next year and force me to be more disciplined.



Unless of course, you get another barrel.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 14, 2017)

I started making wine the beginning of the year and now have one batch bottled and about 50 gallons aging. To me this is a lot of wine. Especially if I continue at this pace. I don't drink but a bottle maybe 2 a week so there will be a lot of gifting. What do those of you that make hundreds of gallons a year do? Are some of you commercial wineries?


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## NorCal (Oct 15, 2017)

mainshipfred said:


> I started making wine the beginning of the year and now have one batch bottled and about 50 gallons aging. To me this is a lot of wine. Especially if I continue at this pace. I don't drink but a bottle maybe 2 a week so there will be a lot of gifting. What do those of you that make hundreds of gallons a year do? Are some of you commercial wineries?



I give away a lot of wine, have friends and family that consume it regularly but, the quantity is still more than can be sustained, before I run out of space to store it. I swear I’m cutting back next year!


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 15, 2017)

mainshipfred said:


> I started making wine the beginning of the year and now have one batch bottled and about 50 gallons aging. To me this is a lot of wine. Especially if I continue at this pace. I don't drink but a bottle maybe 2 a week so there will be a lot of gifting. What do those of you that make hundreds of gallons a year do? Are some of you commercial wineries?



I made much more than I consumed the first few years. Admittedly, my consumption increased a bit as well. But my goal was to get to a 2 year supply. I'm there now and started to cut back production about 18-24 months ago. But I've since realized that making wine is as much, if not more, fun than drinking it. My dad now kicks in each year for 4-5 cases of his own and has offset a chunk of my decrease in production. One of my sisters is also interested in joining in the fun. So I'm not sure I see production necessarily dipping too much.


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## JohnT (Oct 16, 2017)

NorCal said:


> I swear I’m cutting back next year!


 
Yes, and if anyone out there actually believes that, I have a nice bridge to sell you.




Boatboy24 said:


> I made much more than I consumed the first few years. Admittedly, my consumption increased a bit as well. But my goal was to get to a 2 year supply. I'm there now and started to cut back production about 18-24 months ago. But I've since realized that making wine is as much, if not more, fun than drinking it. My dad now kicks in each year for 4-5 cases of his own and has offset a chunk of my decrease in production. One of my sisters is also interested in joining in the fun. So I'm not sure I see production necessarily dipping too much.


 

It is amazing how much wine one can go through! 

- I am always expected to bring wine to most all family functions and holidays. Heck, Thanksgiving alone can cost me 2 cases. Another example is the 3 day music festival I attend each year. Even that requires 2 cases of wine.
- I send wine off to competitions. Most require two bottles per entry.
- Crush and pressing, with 60 - 80 people attending, can cost me 4 or 5 cases.
- Bottling parties (getting together to bottle wine) can cost me another 3 or 4 cases (combined)

The way I see it, just normal "giving away" like above costs me 14 or 15 cases of wine. I have even started on what wine I actually consume over a year.


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