# carboy levels keep dropping



## Ajmassa (Feb 16, 2021)

Anyone else experiencing a high amount of surface level drops in carboys lately? More than typical? My carboys are starting to think they’re barrels.

Not happening in every carboy, but most of them. Noticed a couple months ago, topped all up to just under the bung. A week later was same thing. Now a few weeks later they dropped yet again! About to top for the 3rd time on some of these. yet others none. go figure.
basement has been around 60° throughout. No barometer.


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## CoteRotie (Feb 16, 2021)

The angels' share.... And they're drinking more these days. 

I have nothing in carboys, but I have 2 barrels that do seem to need more topping than typical.


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 16, 2021)

If I didn’t know better I would say you have smart mice.


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## CDrew (Feb 16, 2021)

Hmmm. Any straws in the house?

That's way too much drop to be natural.

You have a wine rustler I think.

Maybe install a game camera down there in the basement.


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## JohnW (Feb 16, 2021)

Any chance some of the corks are old and not sealing as well as they used to? Either that or your mice are having one big party


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## crushday (Feb 16, 2021)

How has the ambient temperature of the room ard/or temperature of the must changed? I recently turned off the heater in my fermenting room, which is kept at 68 degrees. It's now 54 and I've seen pretty consistent must volume changes that you're illustrating. If I had to give my best guess, during fermentation/secondary the must was warmer than it is now.

Edit: I see you reported that the basement has been around 60 degrees throughout but I'm still leaning toward the temp of the must dropping from a lack of fermentation activity.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 16, 2021)

it is definitely progressively getting colder over here. i’m sure the basement has gradually shifted down as well. This is what i assumed to be the cause. 
i’ve only been noting the room temps based off quick looks at the stick on thermometers on the carboys— and they aren’t super accurate. I figured it was the temps, the ambient pressure, and also the lees and solids in the wine? newer stuff i think might be affected by these factors more, and maybe compact a little causing levels to decrease more? idk no clue

i mean, i’m used to some dropping. just been a lot and wondering if it’s the weather then are others noticing too?. my 50L barrel i just added a full liter. about 7 weeks since previous topping.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 16, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> If I didn’t know better I would say you have smart mice.


actually had a mouse dive into a ferment once. in a juice pail. found him floating on top (no lid or towel)- he died like a king lol. 

guys at the shop were cool and hooked us up with a replacement juice bucket. since then the lesson was learned and we always used a loose lid with juice pails


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## Ajmassa (Feb 16, 2021)

JohnW said:


> Any chance some of the corks are old and not sealing as well as they used to? Either that or your mice are having one big party


i thought that too. i used all vented bungs. They seem pretty sealed tho. still thought maybe could be contributing factor in some way. this got me thinking about utilizing solid bungs more often


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## hounddawg (Feb 16, 2021)

AW,,,, come on dude,,, just use the game camera as mentioned by @CDrew ,,, but a wise man might just leave the tigers tail alone, 
Dawg lol


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## NorCal (Feb 16, 2021)

What impact would CO2 coming out of solution at higher temps have on the level of the wine?


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## Ajmassa (Feb 16, 2021)

CDrew said:


> Hmmm. Any straws in the house?
> 
> That's way too much drop to be natural.
> 
> ...


hmmmm 

really hope it’s the 37yr old and not the 13yr old! however those racking canes _do_ look like giant straws! i know i’d be tempted

(full disclosure - i was tempted. and i did steal the old mans wine at that age. We had a garage band and would play a lot at our place. And those demi’s had spigots. some great memories there! .but for whatever reason my “13” was A LOt different than her 13.


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 17, 2021)

_not much_


NorCal said:


> What impact would CO2 coming out of solution at higher temps have on the level of the wine?


The first picture is two hours in to degassing a 6.5 gallon carboy, the second picture is today.




! notes: * the head space when filled was about 125 ml, similar to now/ Wednesday.
* the “finished“ vacuum thursday was 17 inches when last pumped down, so the carboy is degassed.
* there is a check valve in the set up, in the first twelve hours/ when there is substantial CO2 the vacuum will decrease back to zero in under five minutes.
* degassing is a bulk material condition/ ie it takes roughly 12 hours for enough liquid mixing in the carboy to stabilize the 125 ml of ullage.

_OPINION: a vacuum gauge is about $12 and holding a vacuum is the easiest test for if your wine is degassed_


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## VinesnBines (Feb 17, 2021)

CDrew said:


> You have a wine rustler I think.
> 
> Maybe install a game camera down there in the basement.


I suggest making a tiny mark on the stopper and carboy so you can see if the bung has been removed and replaced. What varieties are going down the most? Aged and degassed? Anyone selling wine out the back door?

That's a lot; I don't get that much out when testing/tasting.


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## Fencepost (Feb 17, 2021)

Doing a quick back of the envelope type calculation it looks like it is temperature related... based on densities at 68 vs 65 degrees F, a 6 gallon carboy would decrease in volume by 13.5 ml... or about half an ounce... based on an estimate of the volume in the neck of a carboy that would equate to approx 1/2" drop in level. I am sure someone can be a lot more detailed with exact geometries, and density of wine (I used water)... but if the temp dropped a few more degrees, the volume would drop accordingly. Again, this is a quick estimate not a exact calculation


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## JohnW (Feb 17, 2021)

Fencepost said:


> Doing a quick back of the envelope type calculation it looks like it is temperature related... based on densities at 68 vs 65 degrees F, a 6 gallon carboy would decrease in volume by 13.5 ml... or about half an ounce... based on an estimate of the volume in the neck of a carboy that would equate to approx 1/2" drop in level. I am sure someone can be a lot more detailed with exact geometries, and density of wine (I used water)... but if the temp dropped a few more degrees, the volume would drop accordingly. Again, this is a quick estimate not a exact calculation


I think @Fencepost has the correct answer. When the room warms up this spring see if your levels rise back.


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## MHSKIBUM (Feb 17, 2021)

VinesnBines said:


> I suggest making a tiny mark on the stopper and carboy so you can see if the bung has been removed and replaced. What varieties are going down the most? Aged and degassed? Anyone selling wine out the back door?
> 
> That's a lot; I don't get that much out when testing/tasting.


I use three plastic zip ties. One goes around the lip to hold the other two that criss cross on top to keep the bung firmly in place. You can get about 20 of them for $2 at the Dollar store. It also serves as a deterrent for wine thieves.
The level drops when you rerack.


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## KCCam (Feb 17, 2021)

Fencepost said:


> Doing a quick back of the envelope type calculation it looks like it is temperature related... based on densities at 68 vs 65 degrees F, a 6 gallon carboy would decrease in volume by 13.5 ml... or about half an ounce... based on an estimate of the volume in the neck of a carboy that would equate to approx 1/2" drop in level. I am sure someone can be a lot more detailed with exact geometries, and density of wine (I used water)... but if the temp dropped a few more degrees, the volume would drop accordingly. Again, this is a quick estimate not a exact calculation


I've done that calculation as well, and was amazed at how much difference 1° can make. Note that the neck of the carboy acts like the narrow tube in a thermometer to amplify the effect of a small change in volume.

Careful you don't create a mess when things warm up and the levels start to rise! Assuming of course, temperature is the culprit, and not thieves.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 17, 2021)

MHSKIBUM said:


> I use three plastic zip ties. One goes around the lip to hold the other two that criss cross on top to keep the bung firmly in place. You can get about 20 of them for $2 at the Dollar store. It also serves as a deterrent for wine thieves.
> The level drops when you rerack.


lol. honestly tho i’m positive i don’t have any thieves. it’s not as if one day i noticed the levels all dropped significantly. i noticed it gradually drop over time. but then next thing i knew it would be much too low for comfort. 

Everything’s been topped up. gonna mark the heights and keep my eye on it.


KCCam said:


> I've done that calculation as well, and was amazed at how much difference 1° can make. Note that the neck of the carboy acts like the narrow tube in a thermometer to amplify the effect of a small change in volume.
> 
> Careful you don't create a mess when things warm up and the levels start to rise! Assuming of course, temperature is the culprit, and not thieves.


fully anticipating a mess to clean up! wouldn’t be the first time.


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## mainshipfred (Feb 17, 2021)

My vote is temperature although I can see the CO2 thing as a possibility although not to that extreme.


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## hounddawg (Feb 17, 2021)

Heck, I'm simple minded, but I'D of never thought that it would of to that scale,,
DAWG


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## Ajmassa (Feb 18, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> i’m positive i don’t have any thieves.


pos·i·tive
/ˈpäzədiv/
adjective;
3. -with no possibility of doubt; clear and definite.
"he made a positive identification of a glossy ibis"
-convinced or confident in one's opinion; certain.
"“You are sure it was the same man?” “Positive!”"

I was incorrect. Turns out my house was NOT haven for chemical reaction anomalies. It’s amazing how the brain works sometimes. I believe this is what them there smart people call- ‘Confirmation Bias’. 

Initially started thread to see if others were having similar issue as me—NOT to find out _why. _
Gonna keep the rest of this as a private matter. 
*I will not be offended by ballbreakers takin jabs or ‘i told ya so‘s. ✌


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## Snafflebit (Feb 18, 2021)

Those look like burping bungs, so my guess is that the CO2 is blowing off. I have seen it happen to me also


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## sour_grapes (Feb 18, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> pos·i·tive
> /ˈpäzədiv/
> adjective;
> 3. -with no possibility of doubt; clear and definite.
> ...



I really doubt anyone would take a jab. We can all imagine* the situation!

*Edit to clarify: I don't mean that we can imagine what happened. I meant that we can imagine ourselves in your shoes.


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## KCCam (Feb 18, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> I was incorrect. Turns out my house was NOT haven for chemical reaction anomalies. It’s amazing how the brain works sometimes. I believe this is what them there smart people call- ‘Confirmation Bias’.


So it *WAS *thieves. Hahaha. Why would we take jabs? That is just too funny. You know, I wondered when you indicated some were dropping more than others, and I "assumed" it was simply due to maybe carboys filled up into the neck would "appear" to be dropping more than those that were not filled quite so full. At least they weren't diluting your wine with water to cover their tracks! Or maybe they did... just not carefully enough. Time for the polygraph.


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## bstnh1 (Feb 18, 2021)

Wouldn't the gas itself occupy some space in the carboy? And wouldn't the liquid level drop as gas is removed?


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## mainshipfred (Feb 18, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> Wouldn't the gas itself occupy some space in the carboy? And wouldn't the liquid level drop as gas is removed?



I thought the same thing.


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## VinesnBines (Feb 18, 2021)

I thought the thieves must be very neat. Either bringing their own equipment or cleaning up yours nicely. I can't thieve without a drop or two landing on the carboy.

I also wonder if you found drunken mice or someone confessed?


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## Ajmassa (Feb 18, 2021)

VinesnBines said:


> I thought the thieves must be very neat. Either bringing their own equipment or cleaning up yours nicely. I can't thieve without a drop or two landing on the carboy.
> 
> I also wonder if you found drunken mice or someone confessed?


ok last snow storm she had her girlfriend over the house. Kinda hunkered in for the night. They were gabbin it up & drinking having themselves a night and i was doing my own thing. I remember them yelling up— “hey we’re out of wine. Can you hook us up with a bottle?”

i said no sorry. nothing bottled and all vessels filled. Didn’t give it another thought.

Well the gabbing turned to men-hating apparently. And i was already sorta in the doghouse for other stuff . Combined with her gf egging her on and her gf’s damn vape pen, they decided to help themselves anyway.

About to sit down and watch the last episode of ‘Your Honor’ I remembered i wanted to mark the heights so i did real quick. she asked me what i was doing down there. Said the winter has been brutal on my carboys levels. 

“oh....yeah....about that”. lol.


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## VinesnBines (Feb 18, 2021)

Glad it wasn't the 13 year old! 

Time to zip tie the bungs.


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## CDrew (Feb 18, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> ok last snow storm she had her girlfriend over the house. Kinda hunkered in for the night. They were gabbin it up & drinking having themselves a night and i was doing my own thing. I remember them yelling up— “hey we’re out of wine. Can you hook us up with a bottle?”
> 
> i said no sorry. nothing bottled and all vessels filled. Didn’t give it another thought.
> 
> ...



Good story because I was thinking the 13 yo boyfriend!

Some box wine for emergencies would solve this problem real quick.

It's nice they like it though.


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## KCCam (Feb 18, 2021)

About the possibility of changing volume due to dissolved gas... I am finding this *much *too interesting. Experience tells me that degassing wine does not change its volume to any measurable degree. A quick Google search found this:


> ... Studies investigating the influence of dissolved gases on liquid density show very little change in density as compared to gas-free liquids.
> 
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231028932_The_Influence_of_Dissolved_Gases_on_the_Density_of_Water


More hunting discovered other things that support that.

The entire fermentation of 6 gal of wine produces about 3 lbs of CO2. Does anybody consider *that *source when they're complaining about cars' and cows' (and refineries') carbon footprint? The amount left in the wine before degassing would be a very, very small fraction of that. Pick a number after comparing the amount of bubbles and foam produced during fermentation to what's produced when degassing. 1% I think would be a very high guess. At 1%, that's about 15 grams. 1 tablespoon. Adding a Tbs of anything to 6 gal wouldn't raise the level measurably, much less a Tbs of something that dissolves.
A can of Coke has about 2 g CO2. That's about 130 g per 6 gal. And I would say judging by the feel in my mouth, at least 10 times more than my non-degassed wine, probably more. Again, very conservatively, less than 13 g.
The source I first quoted gives solubility of ammonia as almost 2000 times higher than CO2 (in water), and that 90 g of ammonia will dissolve in 1 L of water at 0°C. Less than 2/3 of that at 25° (room temp). So about 3/4 g CO2 per 6 gal. 
OK, I'm satisfied. Enough time wasted.  
This is much more interesting than what I'm supposed to be spending my time on.


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## Jay A (Feb 18, 2021)

That's when you know your wine is "that good"!


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## Ajmassa (Feb 18, 2021)

Jay A said:


> That's when you know your wine is "that good"!


and also it’s why i started to make more. So the initial frenzy doesn’t deplete the inventory and can hopefully for once allow some wine to age & mature a bit. between my family and friends, her fam n friends, my family’s friends etc etc the wine is gone much too quick!


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## Ajmassa (Feb 18, 2021)

CDrew said:


> Good story because I was thinking the 13 yo boyfriend!
> 
> Some box wine for emergencies would solve this problem real quick.
> 
> It's nice they like it though.


boyfriend?! thankfully we aren’t at that point yet. High school starts next year tho..... yeah. can’t wait


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## CDrew (Feb 18, 2021)

Back to the box wine-my wife is always picky about the wine she likes. Likes the "good" Sauvignon Blanc as opposed to the "cheap" Sauvignon Blanc. If I buy the Bota Box Sauvignon Blanc I get the look of disapproval. But same deal, we had people over (back when you still could) and the ladies were chatting inside and the guys were outside by the fire drinking red wine and planning our Alaska trip. The "good" white wine ran out and the Bota Box of Sauvignon Blanc was just fine-no complaints were heard.

And BTW the Bota SB is pretty darn good in my opinion(I used it to top the storage vessel of the SB I made) and a lot better than a lot of other inexpensive Sauvignon Blancs.



Ajmassa said:


> boyfriend?! thankfully we aren’t at that point yet. High school starts next year tho..... yeah. can’t wait



The memory of high school boyfriends is still fresh in my mind, even though daughter is now through College, married and living in LA. Tricky navigation for sure. Good luck, glad it's you and not me.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 18, 2021)

CDrew said:


> Back to the box wine-my wife is always picky about the wine she likes. Likes the "good" Sauvignon Blanc as opposed to the "cheap" Sauvignon Blanc. If I buy the Bota Box Sauvignon Blanc I get the look of disapproval. But same deal, we had people over (back when you still could) and the ladies were chatting inside and the guys were outside by the fire drinking red wine and planning our Alaska trip. The "good" white wine ran out and the Bota Box of Sauvignon Blanc was just fine-no complaints were heard.
> 
> And BTW the Bota SB is pretty darn good in my opinion(I used it to top the storage vessel of the SB I made) and a lot better than a lot of other inexpensive Sauvignon Blancs.
> 
> ...


noted. and thanks. . another surprisingly good cheap SB is Cupcake. Normally wouldn’t recommend Cupcake wine, but i gotta say the SB held its own. Been a while since i’ve had it tho i doubt their vintages change much


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## sour_grapes (Feb 18, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> I really doubt anyone would take a jab. We can all imagine* the situation!
> 
> *Edit to clarify: I don't mean that we can imagine what happened. I meant that we can imagine ourselves in your shoes.



I must say that when I wrote this, I figgered it was the 13 y-o. But then perhaps that is because, like you, I had a miscreant past! My brother got busted for drinking before graduation, and wasn't allowed to attend graduation. Not HS graduation -- 8th grade graduation! (St. Jerome's). I did get kicked out of a Judge football game or two for similar reasons...


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## Arne (Feb 18, 2021)

When I first read this, my first thought was wine gremlins. Guess I hit it right the first time. LOL, Arne.


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## Ajmassa (Feb 18, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> I must say that when I wrote this, I figgered it was the 13 y-o. But then perhaps that is because, like you, I had a miscreant past! My brother got busted for drinking before graduation, and wasn't allowed to attend graduation. Not HS graduation -- 8th grade graduation! (St. Jerome's). I did get kicked out of a Judge football game or two for similar reasons...


lol. Paul let’s not open these floodgates. can only handle so much debauchery at once. And there’s no shortage HS drinking stories! (because unfortunately it was the kinda neighborhood where you were the oddball if you _didn’t_ partake.)

(8th grade?! lol. yep. sounds about right!)


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## cmason1957 (Feb 18, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> boyfriend?! thankfully we aren’t at that point yet. High school starts next year tho..... yeah. can’t wait



My wife, only girl, 6 brothers says her mom used to say with a son, you have to worry about one talliwacker. With a daughter you have to worry about them all. 

Having two daughters, it is true.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 18, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> (8th grade?! lol. yep. sounds about right!)



Yes, being a year younger, I (seriously) decided that I would not follow in these footsteps, but I would instead be "good." I held out until sophomore year!


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## sour_grapes (Feb 18, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> I must say that when I wrote this, I figgered it was the 13 y-o. But then perhaps that is because, like you, I had a miscreant past! My brother got busted for drinking before graduation, and wasn't allowed to attend graduation. Not HS graduation -- 8th grade graduation! (St. Jerome's). I did get kicked out of a Judge football game or two for similar reasons...



And where is @Paulietivo ? Care to weigh in, Paulie!


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## Ajmassa (Feb 19, 2021)




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## CDrew (Feb 19, 2021)

Good thing you know construction trades. Time to build an aging enclosure with a lock on the door!

Or-You could fill a couple of carboys with Carlo Rossi, and substitute them for your good wine. Then hide the good wine where only you know where it is.

Or you could bottle, which would likely discourage further theft.


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## VinesnBines (Feb 19, 2021)

Either the mice are still at it or someone is messing with you. I'm like CDrew, time for a locked chamber or a nannycam.


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## Arne (Feb 20, 2021)

Maybe it is time to make an extra gallon, when in carboys have the gallon sitting alongside with a sign that says sample here. You can always have a little sample and something to top up with. Arne.


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## JohnW (Feb 20, 2021)

KCCam said:


> About the possibility of changing volume due to dissolved gas... I am finding this *much *too interesting. Experience tells me that degassing wine does not change its volume to any measurable degree. A quick Google search found this:
> 
> More hunting discovered other things that support that.
> 
> ...


Really interesting points about the amount of CO2 in wine. As for the can of coke, most of the CO2 is stored as carbonic acid (H2CO3H2CO3). When the can is opened or shook it breaks down into CO2 and water. I guess my point is since the can of coke stores most of the CO2 as carbonic acid, the actual amount of CO2 gas in the coke at any given time (saturation) is far less than 2g. 
OK, so how much CO2 can 6 gallons of water actually hold at saturation (and buy the way I'm going to assume alcohol holds roughly the same amount as water.)? The solubility of CO2 in water at 25 °C and 1 atmosphere pressure is 0.034 mol/L. To calculate the amount of CO2 at saturation in a 6 gal carboy: 23 L x .034mol/L x 44g/mol = 34.4g of CO2. Anything more than that amount and it will be bubbling out the excess.


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## KCCam (Feb 21, 2021)

JohnW said:


> Really interesting points about the amount of CO2 in wine. As for the can of coke, most of the CO2 is stored as carbonic acid (H2CO3H2CO3). When the can is opened or shook it breaks down into CO2 and water. I guess my point is since the can of coke stores most of the CO2 as carbonic acid, the actual amount of CO2 gas in the coke at any given time (saturation) is far less than 2g.
> OK, so how much CO2 can 6 gallons of water actually hold at saturation (and buy the way I'm going to assume alcohol holds roughly the same amount as water.)? The solubility of CO2 in water at 25 °C and 1 atmosphere pressure is 0.034 mol/L. To calculate the amount of CO2 at saturation in a 6 gal carboy: 23 L x .034mol/L x 44g/mol = 34.4g of CO2. Anything more than that amount and it will be bubbling out the excess.


Well, it was a fun thought experiment, but I have to admit, alas, my logic was wrong.  I believe your calculation is correct: at saturation at room temperature there would be 34.4 g of CO2 dissolved in 23 L of water, and very close to that in wine. And my statement that adding 15 ml of something to a carboy would not be measurable is false. Once the wine is into the neck of a carboy, 15 ml should change the level by 3/4". I still maintain that degassing wine produces no significant change in volume, from experience, but it must be due to the chemistry involved, and not due to the amount of CO2 involved.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 22, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> And where is @Paulietivo ? Care to weigh in, Paulie!


Wow, I think my first wine was over my grandparents house and they would pour us all some in a shotglass, lol. 
Then in another life I was an alter boy. One would be the lookout and the other would pound right out of the bottle. We had responsibility of filling the priests little glass jars before mass.  
High-school forgettaboutit. A friend of mine was puking in St. Huberts bathroom during one of their dances. He refused to tell the priests and nuns his real name. He told them his name was "Frank Rizzo". Yes he was a former mayer of Philadelphia but also the name used by the phone pranksters the jersey Boys. Someone passing by recognized him and gave the nun his phone # but not the name. They called his house and asked for Frank Rizzo! Lmao. Best part was that his mother knew it was her son because he would always prank call people and use that name. 
I also had my share of puking in Judges bathroom during dances. It wasn't wine that did me in but rather 40s of St. Ides because its all we could get. 
Crazy times !


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## sour_grapes (Feb 22, 2021)

Paulietivo said:


> Wow, I think my first wine was over my grandparents house and they would pour us all some in a shotglass, lol.
> Then in another life I was an alter boy. One would be the lookout and the other would pound right out of the bottle. We had responsibility of filling the priests little glass jars before mass.
> High-school forgettaboutit. A friend of mine was puking in St. Huberts bathroom during one of their dances. He refused to tell the priests and nuns his real name. He told them his name was "Frank Rizzo". Yes he was a former mayer of Philadelphia but also the name used by the phone pranksters the jersey Boys. Someone passing by recognized him and gave the nun his phone # but not the name. They called his house and asked for Frank Rizzo! Lmao. Best part was that his mother knew it was her son because he would always prank call people and use that name.
> I also had my share of puking in Judges bathroom during dances. It wasn't wine that did me in but rather 40s of St. Ides because its all we could get.
> Crazy times !



The Frank Rizzo story was pretty funny! 

Yes, the least familiar part of your story to me was "St. Ides." I had to google it, because they didn't start making it until 6 years after I graduated! (Yes, I am old...) But the rest never changes!


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## Paulietivo (Feb 22, 2021)

CDrew said:


> Back to the box wine-my wife is always picky about the wine she likes. Likes the "good" Sauvignon Blanc as opposed to the "cheap" Sauvignon Blanc. If I buy the Bota Box Sauvignon Blanc I get the look of disapproval. But same deal, we had people over (back when you still could) and the ladies were chatting inside and the guys were outside by the fire drinking red wine and planning our Alaska trip. The "good" white wine ran out and the Bota Box of Sauvignon Blanc was just fine-no complaints were heard.
> 
> And BTW the Bota SB is pretty darn good in my opinion(I used it to top the storage vessel of the SB I made) and a lot better than a lot of other inexpensive Sauvignon Blancs.
> 
> ...


Bota Box wine to top off is exactly what I use or whatever is on sale. I did just find these box wines produced from Chateau St. Michelle in Washington State. Not bad at all for top up or sipping.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 22, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> The Frank Rizzo story was pretty funny!
> 
> Yes, the least familiar part of your story to me was "St. Ides." I had to google it, because they didn't start making it until 6 years after I graduated! (Yes, I am old...) But the rest never changes!


I never touched that malt liquor again! Lol. You know at that age you get what you can, salute!


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## cmason1957 (Feb 22, 2021)

Paulietivo said:


> I never touched that malt liquor again! Lol. You know at that age you get what you can, salute!



My dad (93 years young), now that I am older and make wine had told me why he almost never drinks wine. It is basically that same story, except sweet strawberry wine, this would have been about 1940 or so. He still can't stand the smell of thought of any kind of wine. Now a wee nip of Scotch ever so often.


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## sour_grapes (Feb 22, 2021)

Well, for me, I got kicked out of the Judge game due to Peppermint Schnapps. I still cannot tolerate it _at all!_


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## Ajmassa (Feb 22, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Well, for me, I got kicked out of the Judge game due to Peppermint Schnapp's. I still cannot tolerate it _at all!_


pepsi can filled with vodka for me. memory is extremely hazy. After booted somehow ended up at a keg party on the 4th hole green at Burns Golf course. 
the glory days


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## wpt-me (Feb 22, 2021)

Southern Comfort / 100 proof !!

Bill


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## cmason1957 (Feb 22, 2021)

wpt-me said:


> Southern Comfort / 100 proof !!
> 
> Bill



Lots of Folks have Southern Comfort stories. After reading you wrote that. I had to text my (now) ex-wife and remind her of it. I just remember yelling don't puke on the paint of my dad's car.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 22, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> pepsi can filled with vodka for me. memory is extremely hazy. After booted somehow ended up at a keg party on the 4th hole green at Burns Golf course.
> the glory days


I used to go sledding at burns golf course! Haha


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## Paulietivo (Feb 22, 2021)

wpt-me said:


> Southern Comfort / 100 proof !!
> 
> Bill


I knew someone who like to smoke crack, he warned me about the southern comfort! Lmao!


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## sour_grapes (Feb 22, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> Burn





Paulietivo said:


> I used to go sledding at burns golf course! Haha



C'mon, youse guys! It is John F. *Byrne* golf course! Good times! (Except when I _attempted to_ golf there!)


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## Ajmassa (Feb 22, 2021)

Paulietivo said:


> I used to go sledding at burns golf course! Haha


SUICIDE HILL! lol. i’m sure every neighborhood or town has a ‘suicide hill’, — and that one was ours. And will never forget my brother goin head 1st into the ‘crick’! 


sour_grapes said:


> C'mon, youse guys! It is John F. *Byrne* golf course! Good times! (Except when I attempted_ to_ golf there!)


will still go there on occasion too. for a city municipal course it’s kept in surprisingly good shape. (in spite of the 1st and 4th holes gettin beat up by the sledders all winter)

Judge had a golf team and Byrns was home field. i tried out with my buddies every year. Nobody ever made the team- we just wanted the 3 free rounds of golf!


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## Ajmassa (Feb 22, 2021)

And to go _off topic_ for a second—— the actual wine thievery was only one time from one jug apparently, and not the reasoning for all the levels dropping. A bit of a ‘false flag’. 

Since topping up and marking the heights last tuesday i’ve been keeping an eye on it. Still steady dropping on all vessels- little by little. And again, some dropped more than others. Was definitely coinciding with colder temps i confirmed. Here’s pics of most severe. Supposed to warm up this week so im guessing they will rise back some.


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## Paulietivo (Feb 23, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> SUICIDE HILL! lol. i’m sure every neighborhood or town has a ‘suicide hill’, — and that one was ours. And will never forget my brother goin head 1st into the ‘crick’!
> 
> will still go there on occasion too. for a city municipal course it’s kept in surprisingly good shape. (in spite of the 1st and 4th holes gettin beat up by the sledders all winter)
> 
> Judge had a golf team and Byrns was home field. i tried out with my buddies every year. Nobody ever made the team- we just wanted the 3 free rounds of golf!


Wow suicide hill! Haven't heard that in years. I almost went in the crick several times but never did. Lol


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## MHSKIBUM (Mar 4, 2021)

MHSKIBUM said:


> I use three plastic zip ties. One goes around the lip to hold the other two that criss cross on top to keep the bung firmly in place. You can get about 20 of them for $2 at the Dollar store. It also serves as a deterrent for wine thieves.
> The level drops when you rerack.


I'm adding an addendum — caution — to my post above. Yesterday, I reracked a carboy of Nebbiolo after three months of bulk aging only to be surprised when the bung shot out with a pop. I thought I had degassed the wine thoroughly and even reracked it in the carboy for 30 days with an airlock to ensure all the gas had dissipated before inserting the solid bung for the next two months. 
I read another post where a beermaker left his brew in a carboy with an airlock that somehow got clogged and the carboy exploded. 
I know how fragile carboys can be. I lost one by washing it with water that was too hot.
I think I'll be keeping an airlock, secured by zip ties, on my bulk stored wines for at least eight months before switching to a solid bung that I secure with zip ties.


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