# 2nd yr muscadine questions



## jamesjr (Apr 5, 2015)

Well last year I baught them and let them grow and didn't kno they needed to be pruned then I pruned them down to two main branches so one can go each way and now there filling out and looks like little grapes are growing now do I cut them off now? Ive read dont let them produce any fruit also they have aphids and advice at al would 've great this is just a hobby do me but I'd love to hear all the feedback I can


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## garymc (Apr 5, 2015)

The first year you can let them go wild because they're developing a root system and that's the most important thing at that stage. Second year you want to start training them to grow where you want. If you have a trellis or arbor or something, you would prune them accordingly and this would be in February or March, depending on where you are (climate.) So, this year you want to prune it a month ago so that there is one main trunk or two trunks like you have. Then you pinch off the buds and little lateral shoots up and down the trunks to force it to grow tall until it reaches whatever supports it. Like 5 feet tall at least. On the trunk there will be a leaf coming out of the trunk and a bud at the base of the leaf stem. Pinch the bud and leave the leaf. Easy to remember. Leave the leaves. These leaves will photosynthesize, but not take energy away from the system like a shoot trying to grow and compete with the tip shoot. You didn't mention your location (if you look over to the left of my message, you'll see where I am.) It would also be helpful to describe what kind of trellis you're using. Anyhow, if you have a trellis 5 or 6 feet high, you keep the trunks bare except for those leaves you left so the tips will grow vigorously. So if you are seeing little grapes forming on shoots 3 feet off the ground, not only remove the flowers or grapes, but the shoot they are growing on also. If your trunks are each 8 or 10 feet long, you should leave the shoots up on the wires and take the flowers off them this year. If you're dying to find out what they taste like and the vine is really well developed, you could leave a couple of clusters. Somebody jump in if I don't have this right. 
My vines have yet to break bud and yours have sprouted shoots that already have flowers, so I'm surmising you're pretty far south of me. I have vines in my back yard that grow shoots in a season that are as long as 12 feet. My yard used to be good cotton ground. Eight miles away I have a small vineyard of muscadines and the soil is miserable, they get hit by chemical drift from the surrounding row crops, and the winter hurts them worse. It's taking some of those vines 3 years to reach the trellis wires if they live that long. I went and picked muscadines at a friend's vineyard a couple of years ago and it was awful. His wires were about 4 or 4.5 feet off the ground and sagged a little. Dense curtains of shoots on the outside of the row meant I had to crawl under the things on my knees and reach up to pick. I built my trellises so my wires are 5'6" high (that's my height.) I pick my grapes from chest to nose height. No crawling.


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## garymc (Apr 5, 2015)

Some of my muscadines are on what is called a Geneva double curtain trellis system (GDC.) You'll notice people use abbreviations for the trellis systems. I don't know what half of them mean, but you want your muscadines up high and they require a lot of space. 20 feet is recommended, but you can squeeze them a little closer. Here is a link to the Georgia Muscadine Production Guide, which will serve as a very nice reference on growing the things http://www.smallfruits.org/Muscadines/production/MuscadineGro/toc.htm 
You can also look at the muscadine growing guide at Ison's Nursery http://www.isons.com/gardeners.php 
What varieties have you planted?


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## jamesjr (Apr 6, 2015)

I will have to get back to u on the varieties and go look tommorow as much as I can tell u now is one is white and one is red. Also the trellis isn't much of a trellis at all as much as its a chain link fence. So let me get this correct the two main trunks I have keep them growing up with any leaves on them they have but only leave the top shoot growing upward. And to not let any shoots grow out of the trunk also its not realy two trunks its one trunk that about a foot off the ground it splits to two and im about at the top of the fence now but the vine going up is probly not pencil thick. And also I am in central fl and I pruned like 3 months ago. 

Also on another subject I have a florida bunch grape hybrid that was seriously root bound that isn't doing much of anything yet.

I will try to get pics of my grape vines but dont laugh lol


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## jamesjr (Apr 6, 2015)

Theres my two muscadines that have plenty of leave I left 3 branches sorry as one for a back up could I prune it to two branches now? And the other is my bunch hybrid showing just a little sprouts coming out half way up the right branch. That thing was so over grown and root bound but I want to try a bunch grape for fun so I got it anyway


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## garymc (Apr 9, 2015)

My next door neighbor told me I could put vines on the chain link fence between our yards and I have 5 vines doing exactly the same thing as yours. When you have a bud on the left side of the left branch a few inches (1 to 6 inches) below the rail, prune the main tip and make that bud send a shoot off to the left on top of, and wrapping around the rail as it grows. Same thing on the right, or just spiral wrap the left and right branches around the rail. Having a clean trunk on a fence like this is not as big a deal as on a normal trellis. But either way, you don't want foliage down low blocking air flow, and getting close to any Roundup you might spray along the fence. Also, lower foliage will be shaded by the stuff coming off the arms up on the rail at the top. 
You can go to your profile and change what shows on your posts adding your location over to the left so that every thread about growing grapes people won't have to ask you where you are.
I don't have a picture of mine on the chain link handy, but here's a picture of a friend's vine on a fence. The top strand is airplane cable and the fence is chicken wire. It's close to the same height as a chain link fence.


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## jamesjr (Apr 9, 2015)

Awesome I hope I can get some grapes like that . Also im having a terrible problem with the little black aphid things I keep trying to mash them off but theres more and more every day I tried dawn last year but it almost looked like it made some of my leaves brown


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## garymc (Apr 10, 2015)

If they're aphids, a healthy muscadine won't be hurt too bad until the ladybugs or other predators come for the aphids.


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## jamesjr (Apr 11, 2015)

Im almost positive there aphids. Ok so just ignore them till the food chain takes over, gotcha so about how much does one properly cared for muscadine produce? And how many vines would I need to be able to make a batch of wine?


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## garymc (Apr 11, 2015)

Production depends on a number of factors. One is the variety. If you have 2 females and no pollinator, you'll get nothing. I had a variety named Scarlett and until I dug it up this year I was getting 2 dozen grapes on it. I think where you are, you should expect 50 pounds. Todrod, a member here, says he got 200 pounds in a season on an Ison vine. He's in Louisiana. He said he weighed them every time he harvested some. I expect his Delta soil might beat your Florida sand. But if you don't get 50 pounds on a vine on the 5th year, you're justified in being disappointed. You should be proud of 80 to 100 pounds, and your credibility will be questioned if you claim to get over 100 pounds. If you plan on getting more vines, I've planted 13 varieties and my favorites for taste are: Eudora from Mississippi, Ison from Ison's Nurseries, Darlene from Ison's, and Tara, available from a lot of places including Ison's. I have a number of Delicious vines from Florida. They're productive, large berry, disease resistant and taste ok for a purple. I think the bronze (aka green or white) varieties tend to taste a little better than the purples. The University of Florida has a program where they're going around to the Florida nurseries and trying to get them to make sure their vines are not carrying diseases. Georgia has no such program that I know of.


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## jamesjr (Apr 11, 2015)

Yea I do have sand also Ill look tomorrow at the types they are but my soil is fairly good ive had some successful gardens right near the fence where I have the grapes. And another quick question how much grapes does it take to fill a 5 gallon carboy? Because ive never made a grape wine and if im not mistaken u want to use all juice no water?


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## garymc (Apr 12, 2015)

The last time I counted the grapes in a five gallon carboy, it was 6,428. But your grapes may be a different size. I was just kidding. People use anywhere from 20 pounds of muscadines and up for 5 gallons. I like 40 pounds, but I'm still experimenting and plan on making wine with more. Muscadines are strong flavored and highly acidic. One way of reducing acidity is to add water. The riper your grapes are, the less acid. Several of us use Lalvin 71B 1122 yeast on muscadine wine because it eats some of the acid and it leaves more of the fruity flavor and fragrance. 
The vinifera grapes from the Old World have been bred for thousands of years specifically for use in making wine. They require little adjustment compared to a lot of other fruits. The first wine made in the New World was near Jacksonville in about 1562 by French Huguenots out of scuppernong muscadines. So muscadines have a comparatively short career at winemaking. 
If you look at the bottom of this page, there is a window entitled "Similar Threads." You can use these threads and the search function to learn about this stuff. I don't remember if this is the second or third time I've made the suggestion, but you can change the settings in your profile so your posts will let people know what part of the country you're in. That way if you ask questions about growing things they won't have to ask you where you're growing them.


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## jamesjr (Apr 12, 2015)

No u definitely recommend me doing that and I couldn't figure it out lol I ended up logging out and not knowing my password so I tried to reset it like ten time but it kept saying something like tapatalk not supportive or something


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## jamesjr (Apr 12, 2015)

One of the muscadines is Tara and its has a bunch of little grapes I just plucked off then across the yard is southern home and the other one on the fence lost its tag but its some sort of muscadine


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## garymc (Apr 12, 2015)

Your Tara is a pollinator, so you shouldn't have problems with that. My phone won't do things my computer will do also.


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## jamesjr (Apr 13, 2015)

About how close do they need to be to be able to pollinate the other?


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## toddrod (Apr 13, 2015)

max 50ft apart for pollination. Off course the closer the better. My trunks are 10ft apart but the arms go all the way to each other. I have a video on youtube showing my setup with t post and fence top rail. Production with muscadines is all about the pruning, watering, soil and fertilization. I follow the recommendations of Isons nursery to the letter and my production of 200 lbs from 1 Ison vine is the result of that. 

I have Ison (SF), Sweet Jenny (F), Pam (F) and Pineapple (SF) varieties.


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## jamesjr (Apr 23, 2015)

Another question sorry now that there pruned up and growing do I let them go and do what they do I kno to pinch of the grapes that start but what avout the shoots? Like do I let leafs and shoots grow on the trunk or pinch everything off except what I want to keep? Or do I leave all the pruning for the Dormant season?


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