# Chardonnay



## G259 (Apr 20, 2021)

I started a Chardonnay kit, but starting SG of the juice was low (1.065), and with the included EC-1118, this would be short work. I added sugar to 1.085, but I'm wondering what else that may do. This is a kit, and I realize that they want you to finish quickly and buy another kit!


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## heatherd (Apr 20, 2021)

You should not need to add anything to a kit.


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## katmike57 (Apr 20, 2021)

I just recently bottled a chardonnay (RJS). Checked my notes and my starting SG was 1.104!! I realize there are going to be differences, but that does seem really low. Also, the yeast provided in mine was QA23.


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## cmason1957 (Apr 20, 2021)

G259 said:


> I started a Chardonnay kit, but starting SG of the juice was low (1.065), and with the included EC-1118, this would be short work. I added sugar to 1.085, but I'm wondering what else that may do. This is a kit, and I realize that they want you to finish quickly and buy another kit!



I suspect one of two things, to much water added or not stirred nearly enough to mix the ingredients. The mixing is probably the more likely culprit. Most non-wine cooler type kits come in at 1.080-1.100, without fail for me. You probably didn't mess things up by adding more sugar, hence making more alcohol, except to decrease the body a bit. Time will tell. Adding tannins later on may help, if you find it to thin or potentially adding glycerin (something I don't really like to do, myself).


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## G259 (Apr 20, 2021)

I really stirred this up good, I wanted to add a bunch of oxygen to benefit the yeast (I always do this). This was a Wild Grapes Chardonnay kit. I stirred it up really good after adding the sugar as well, to make sure it was dissolved, and providing a good initial SG. My pail states that the 6 gal. mark is at the lowest ridge, and that's what the directions told me to to: Add juice bag and fill water to 6 gal. mark. Perhaps the bag was short of actual juice, so the water added was too much.


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## G259 (Apr 21, 2021)

I put a 1 star review on Amazon, but I don't expect much.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 21, 2021)

@G259, not all kits vendors have good quality control. In the past I found all kits to be low on sugar, but in recent years Winexpert and R J Spagnols have fixed that.

You've done what I would have done. The only thing I might do is add aging oak, if the kit seems to need it.


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## G259 (Apr 21, 2021)

The kit had small oak chips in it that I already added. I have some med. toast chips that I haven't used yet, maybe I'll throw in a tablespoon into each 3 gal. carboy. These are larger chips (feeling through the bag), I'll add after racking soon, first rack from the carboy.


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## G259 (Apr 21, 2021)

. . . btw I like an oaky Chardonnay.


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## G259 (Apr 23, 2021)

. . . Or would a teaspoon suffice for each 3 gal. batch? I am concerned about OVER oaking.


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## Sailor323 (Apr 23, 2021)

G259 said:


> My pail states that the 6 gal. mark is at the lowest ridge, and that's what the directions told me to to: Add juice bag and fill water to 6 gal. mark. Perhaps the bag was short of actual juice, so the water added was too much.


When using a kit, I add water bit by bit and check SG after each addition. I only add enough water to bring the must to a SG no less than 1.085. Sometimes this means I end up with less must than the kit is supposed to make.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 23, 2021)

G259 said:


> . . . Or would a teaspoon suffice for each 3 gal. batch? I am concerned about OVER oaking.


I've been using oak cubes as the surface area is more consistent and I have a better feel for what a given amount will do (it's possible I'm fooling myself on the consistency, but it's working for me). Hopefully this will help you gauge.

I use 2 oz cubes for 5 gallons wines, although I've been oaking only reds. For 3 gallons, I'd use 1.2 oz. For oak I use a scale rather than a volume measure, so I have no idea how that translates to a measuring spoon, although my guess is you're using a lot less than that. 

This picture is 2 oz cubes taken from a recent Cab, with a tablespoon measure for comparison. [Cubes are being saved for the next time I smoke something.]




Since you're worried about over-oaking, start with 1/2 oz chips and taste test every 2 weeks. After 4 months, if you don't have the flavor you want, add an additional 1/2 oz.

My *oak stix experiment* describes stirring the wine, read my notes from the 2nd taste testing which describes stirring the wine to ensure the oak flavoring is distributed.


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## G259 (Apr 23, 2021)

I think mine are smaller than these, and the ones in the kit were tiny. The wine is clearing very quickly (as I suspected), I can even read things at a pretty good distance! But they are Better Bottles, and a little thinner. I think I'll rack, add 1Tsp. oak (each 3 gal. carboy), and wait a while.


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## G259 (Apr 25, 2021)

Racked today, and added a little oak, I didn't want to overdo it on my first chardonnay. I tasted it, it was ok, but a slight off flavor. I'm not sure if it's becase it is dry, or because of the excess water added.


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## winemaker81 (Apr 26, 2021)

The wine is very green, the flavor is going to be less-than-stellar for a while.


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## G259 (Apr 29, 2021)

Yes, I will wait it out. "Paul Masson drank no wine before it's time", (showing my age)!


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## joeswine (May 2, 2021)

Adding grapefruit zest in the primary or secondary picks up the taste profile and adds a crispness to the finish


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## G259 (May 5, 2021)

Thanks for that Joe, I think I'll add 1T per 3 gal. batch, or do you think more? BTW, I have been reading about vendors frequently shorting juice in kits, should I shun kits altogether, or are some more reliable than others?


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## winemaker81 (May 6, 2021)

G259 said:


> should I shun kits altogether, or are some more reliable than others?


I made the WineXpert 10 liter Australian Chardonnay and Australian Cabernet Sauvignon last September, bottled last month. I'm very pleased with both. Based upon this, the new WE formulization appears to be as good as advertised.

IMO the vendor makes the difference -- don't go with the lesser names until someone else posts good reviews.

That said, a frozen juice bucket will cost what a high end kit does, but you'll be getting 100% juice. You might try that, then make a decision regarding the 2 options.


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## joeswine (May 6, 2021)

It really depends on you allowance for wine making doesn't it. 
If you follow (tweaking cheap wine kits) you'll see you can make a decent everyday wine at a reasonable price  or if your knowledge is advanced move on to better kits. IT'S really up to you know one else.


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## G259 (May 6, 2021)

Yeah, I wanted to go lower end for my first kit, to see the ins and outs. I guess that you really do get what you pay for, or less in my case! I'll look at RJS and WE, seeing that I have read some solid reviews.


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## joeswine (May 6, 2021)

Review (TWEAKING CHEAP WINE KITS).


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## G259 (May 7, 2021)

Yeah, I read that. It's not as much about the price, as it is about the value. I'm searching a new terrain.


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## G259 (May 9, 2021)

OK, I had a bit of the shmeg settling in the fridge, and I got a half glass out of it. It was thin (as I suspected), but it tasted ok. It's drinkable, but I'll wait longer.


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## MHSKIBUM (Jul 17, 2021)

Latest tweak of a cheap kit with surprising results so far.
I just sampled my tweak of a cheap Costco Gewurtztraminer kit (Cellar Master - RJS' bottom level kit - 60 bottles for $99 Cdn but I bought it on sale for $89 Cdn including tax & delivery.) 
I love Alsatian wines, especially this fragrant variety with noticeable floral overtones. I was skeptical about Costco's Gewurtztraminer because I've had commercially produced versions from North American vineyards and that often missed the mark by a very wide margin despite a premium price. 
While not a great Gewurtztraminer, it definitely had the right nose. I now make it as one of my four go-to every day wines. 
Okay now for the tweak. I've had good luck using green and light purple table grapes to add a bit of complexity to a cheap Costco chardonnay kit. Why not give it a go with the Gewurtztraminer, I thought.
I started a batch on July 1 with added light purple table grape skins and a 1/2 cup of Sun Maid organic raisins. I also shorted the water to 5 gals from the recommended 6 as I do with all cheap kits. S.G. to start was 1.100 bang on. I removed the skins on July 16 and S.G. was 0.992!!!
Just before adding sorbate, KMeta, and fining agents I took a small sampling. 
Surprise! The wine in no way resembled Gewurtztraminer. The flavour was obviously rough but very complex.
I don't know whether this recipe will be a keeper or not but I'm anxious to see what I'll end up with over time — good only for Sangria or something special.


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## joeswine (Jul 18, 2021)

Raisins and whites don't complement each other,only green or like color graps no dark.
The G wine has a flavor profile of it's own, just a 1/2 tablespoon of grapefruit zest as a enhancement.


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## MHSKIBUM (Jul 18, 2021)

I should have passed this by you beforehand. That said, the flavour isn't awful, just different from any wine I can remember.


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## joeswine (Jul 19, 2021)

Different can be good ,after your taste buds get aguanted with the flavors .


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## Bmd2k1 (Jul 24, 2021)

Gonna target my 1st Chardonnay for the early fall & have a few ?s :

1. For those adding grapefruit zest - do ya prefer a yellow or pink gf?

2. How much zest is half a gf?

3. For those that bulk age -- how long are ya doing it for?

4. Any other tips for making a tasty Chardonnay?

Cheers ✌


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## winemaker81 (Jul 25, 2021)

Bmd2k1 said:


> 2. How much zest is half a gf?


Ummmm ... half of the zest of a whole grapefruit.  

Seriously, it's going to vary with the size of the grapefruit -- they vary in size from a large orange to small basketball. Pick a "medium sized" grapefruit, one with evenly colored peel and no blemishes. I use a purpose-made zester that makes shreds -- I have used a paring knife but got too much pith.

To answer your question, my best guess is about 1/4 cup, although I'd simply zest half of a grapefruit and not worry about measuring. Or measure after you're done and use that as a yardstick for future batches.



Bmd2k1 said:


> 3. For those that bulk age -- how long are ya doing it for?


I'd do 6 to 9 months. Some folks bulk age longer, but I don't for whites, as the lifespan is shorter than reds.


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## Steve Wargo (Jul 25, 2021)

I found a little zest goes a long way. You can always add a little more when ageing the wine. I'm not sure if grapefruit is a common aroma or flavour characteristic of Chardonnay. Is this a wine made from a kit?


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## Bmd2k1 (Jul 25, 2021)

Steve Wargo said:


> I found a little zest goes a long way. You can always add a little more when ageing the wine. I'm not sure if grapefruit is a common aroma or flavour characteristic of Chardonnay. Is this a wine made from a kit?


Yes....it will be a kit...not sure which one yet.

Cheers ✌


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## joeswine (Jul 26, 2021)

Yellow grapefruit Zest 1/2 , depending upon the size, less is more added to the primary or secondary, primary is preferred its not so
much for taste its for acidity which imparts a crispness to the finish.


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## Myrum (Jul 27, 2021)

joeswine said:


> Adding grapefruit zest in the primary or secondary picks up the taste profile and adds a crispness to the finish


I hate to have to ask this, but is this the grated skin off of a grapefruit? Just want to check this out before I start a Chardonnay kit. Could you also fill me in on the need for tannins or not, type of oak for a heavy oak finish and anything else you can think of that might help. I usually make red wine kits and this white is a first for me. Thanks, Lynn


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## joeswine (Jul 27, 2021)

Keep it simple ,1/2 grated zest of a grapefruit no white parts. 
Oak tannins and chips in the primary, in the secondary 1 teaspoon of tannins.( less is more theory).
Done. Keep it simple.
Just a 1/4 cupmof oak will do.


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## Myrum (Jul 27, 2021)

Thank you so much for the information. Can't wait to try this. I hope it turns out similar to the 19 crimes Hard Chard. I just found it and I love it. 
Thanks again.
Lynn


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## bstnh1 (Jul 29, 2021)

joeswine said:


> Keep it simple ,1/2 grated zest of a grapefruit no white parts.
> Oak tannins and chips in the primary, in the secondary 1 teaspoon of tannins.( less is more theory).
> Done. Keep it simple.
> Just a 1/4 cupmof oak will do.


Getting ready to use grapefruit zest for the first time - in a Pinot kit. Do you have to prep the zest in any way other than washing the grapefruit, like spraying it with Kmeta? Is leaving the zest in a couple of weeks during secondary long enough?


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## cmason1957 (Jul 29, 2021)

I do so hope you mean Pinot Grigio not Pinot Noir. No special prep needed. I just wash, zest, into the mix.


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## bstnh1 (Jul 29, 2021)

Yes, it's Pinot Grigio! Thanks.


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## joeswine (Jul 29, 2021)

Just wash with cold water and ZEST AWAY, keep it simple .


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## Bmd2k1 (Aug 2, 2021)

Sipping a Menage Chardonnay.....excellent flavor profile! Gonna measure the SG to gauge dryness for mine. Only slight oakiness....which is spot on 4 me. Cheers all ✌


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## Bmd2k1 (Aug 8, 2021)

Anyone here make the Master Vintner Chardonnay? Lotsa great reviews on MidwestSupplies.com 

Cheers!


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## bstnh1 (Aug 8, 2021)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Anyone here make the Master Vintner Chardonnay? Lotsa great reviews on MidwestSupplies.com
> 
> Cheers!


I made it last year. I dont drink much wine, but my wife who's a huge Chardonnay fan, loves it.


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## Bmd2k1 (Aug 18, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> I made it last year. I dont drink much wine, but my wife who's a huge Chardonnay fan, loves it.


Did ya bulk age it at all? How about Oak?

Cheers!


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## joeswine (Aug 18, 2021)

Chardonnay does well with oaking,oak in, or wood french or Hungarian , American will also do along with wine tannins. 
In the secondary add oak tannins again 1 teaspoon, that should do it check n your PH. SHOULDN'T exceed 3.5 .


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## bstnh1 (Aug 18, 2021)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Did ya bulk age it at all? How about Oak?
> 
> Cheers!


 Nope! Didn't add any oak to it and bottled it 80 days after starting it. So it only spent a few weeks in the carboy after it was done.


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## Bmd2k1 (Aug 18, 2021)

Gonna snag the MV Chardonnay when it goes on sale (maybe Labor Day weekend?).

Plan to use D47 yeast. Will toss some light toast oak chips in primary and then an American oak Med toast spiral in during bulk aging -- will go 3-6months...still undecided.

Atleast that's my current plan  

Cheers!


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## Bmd2k1 (Aug 27, 2021)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Gonna snag the MV Chardonnay when it goes on sale (maybe Labor Day weekend?).
> 
> Plan to use D47 yeast. Will toss some light toast oak chips in primary and then an American oak Med toast spiral in during bulk aging -- will go 3-6months...still undecided.
> 
> ...


Ordered! 15% off all kits at midwestsupplies.com currently! (snagged an MV Cab Franc too)

Cheers!


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## bstnh1 (Aug 27, 2021)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Ordered! 15% off all kits at midwestsupplies.com currently! (snagged an MV Cab Franc too)
> 
> Cheers!


The problem with midwest supplies is that the listed regular rice of the kits jumps all over the place. Inflating the retail price to make you think you're getting a bargain with a coupon is not the best business model.


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## Bmd2k1 (Aug 27, 2021)

bstnh1 said:


> The problem with midwest supplies is that the listed regular rice of the kits jumps all over the place. Inflating the retail price to make you think you're getting a bargain with a coupon is not the best business model.


Been watching it for quite awhile now & it had been steady at $85 (pre-discount) -- and no shipping if $125 bought - hence the 2nd kit


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## MHSKIBUM (Oct 21, 2021)

joeswine said:


> Different can be good ,after your taste buds get aguanted with the flavors .


I'm still perplexed by the taste of my Gewurtztraminer experiment. It's not awful — just really different. My wife and three of her friends liked it enough to select it over their usual ($10-$12) commercial whites over the summer.
I'm glad I didn't have to pitch it but I don't think I'll be making it again.


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## joeswine (Oct 21, 2021)

Good to. Hear .


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## Bmd2k1 (Jan 21, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> Gonna snag the MV Chardonnay when it goes on sale (maybe Labor Day weekend?).
> 
> Plan to use D47 yeast. Will toss some light toast oak chips in primary and then an American oak Med toast spiral in during bulk aging -- will go 3-6months...still undecided.
> 
> ...


2.5 months into bulk aging...just did a small sampling and OMG is this awesome! Silky smooth mouth feel, great aroma...just the right amount of oakiness...wow....impressed!


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## justsipn (Jan 22, 2022)

I have a Wine Expert Reserve Australian Chardonnay in primary right now. I’ve been trying to decide if I’m going to add oak sticks while aging. It sounds like a lot of you guys do. I think I have a French medium I’ll use and leave it for around 3 months.


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## winemaker81 (Jan 22, 2022)

justsipn said:


> I have a Wine Expert Reserve Australian Chardonnay in primary right now. I’ve been trying to decide if I’m going to add oak sticks while aging. It sounds like a lot of you guys do. I think I have a French medium I’ll use and leave it for around 3 months.


It depends on what you like. I made the WE Reserve Australian Chardonnay in 2020 for my son's wedding reception in 2021, and used no aging oak, just the fermentation oak that was included. The wine has a seasoning of oak, not a heavy flavoring

My son gave me just over a year's warning that I needed to make wine, so I went with no oak to ensure it would be ready. Everyone was pleased with the outcome.


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## Bmd2k1 (Jun 10, 2022)

FYI -- The MV Winemaker's Reserve Chardonnay is definitely a winner! Lotsa positive feedback from All that have tried it.

Will be ordering another  

Cheers!


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## justsipn (Jun 11, 2022)

Just bottled my Chardonnay. The oak stick was in aging for almost 4 months. I’m extremely happy. It has the buttery feel I love about Chardonnay. 

Going to be a good summer drinking it.


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## Bmd2k1 (Jul 6, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> FYI -- The MV Winemaker's Reserve Chardonnay is definitely a winner! Lotsa positive feedback from All that have tried it.
> 
> Will be ordering another
> 
> Cheers!


And away she goes  

My 2nd batch of the MV Chardonnay underway via same protocol as my 1st batch last year -- using D47, provided light oak chips during fermentation and will then age on 1 light toast American oak spiral for 6months.

Cheers!


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## joeswine (Jul 9, 2022)

Try using a champagne yeast next time excellent finish very smooth.


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