# what extra equiptment do I need?



## Sofa King Drunk (Nov 17, 2006)

Is there any special brewing tools that are needed for wine that a beer brewer might need and not have?


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## cpfan (Nov 17, 2006)

Most important thing is a corker. It somewhat depends on what equipment you have been using for beer making. Here's a quick list of the basic equipment....

Primary Fermenter
Carboy(s)
Bung & air lock
Siphon Rod & hose
Bottle Filling Wand
Stirring Spoon
Thermometer (optional, imho)
Hydrometer (mandatory, imho)
Hydrometer tube or Fermtech Wine Thief

Steve


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## BeerSlinger (Nov 17, 2006)

Sofa King Drunk said:


> Is there any special brewing tools that are needed for wine that a beer brewer might need and not have?



Hey dude, your in the same boat I am. 

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85

I'm gonna splurdge and probabily get a 7 gallon fermenter and an acid tester........then just boil the mix like your average lager or ale (for me because I want fruit wines).....I'm not real big on the whole corking and botteling but I wouldn't imagine that it would be any different (will the corking is different) then getting bottels and sealing them...So for probabily not much you can get setup......

I probabily won't do any of this until this summer because the yeast temps (from what i've read) are the same for wine as ale.....


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## Caplan (Nov 18, 2006)

BeerSlinger said:


> Hey dude, your in the same boat I am.
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85
> 
> then just boil the mix like your average lager or ale (for me because I want fruit wines).......



Beerslinger - you don't need to boil fruits like 'beer wort' for wines - You'll end up with cloudy wine (from pectin/starch hazes) and risk driving some of the best fruit flavours off with the heat. 

What fruit are you planning to use?


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## BeerSlinger (Nov 18, 2006)

Caplan said:


> Beerslinger - you don't need to boil fruits like 'beer wort' for wines - You'll end up with cloudy wine (from pectin/starch hazes) and risk driving some of the best fruit flavours off with the heat.
> 
> What fruit are you planning to use?



Oops, I misspoke, your right that would make a mess. I was thinking of a dandelion wine....at least I think I was.......I've looked up so many recipes here lately that I can hardly keep track......


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## Sofa King Drunk (Nov 19, 2006)

cpfan said:


> Most important thing is a corker. It somewhat depends on what equipment you have been using for beer making. Here's a quick list of the basic equipment....
> 
> Primary Fermenter
> Carboy(s)
> ...



I have all that stuff except the corker, anything else?


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## smurfe (Nov 20, 2006)

Sofa King Drunk said:


> I have all that stuff except the corker, anything else?



That list of stuff will get you by just fine. There are other items that are nice but not mandatory. 

Smurfe


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## OGB (Nov 20, 2006)

Would someone please expound on the nice to haves? I started out brewing beer with the basics and once I worked around to getting all the nice to haves, I found life to be so much easier. I plan on starting a batch in January (Christmas gift will be juice for a Shiraz) and I want to ensure that I don't have all the issues I had when I first started brewing beer.

Thanks!


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## cpfan (Nov 20, 2006)

Everybody is probbaly going to give a different answer, but here goes a bit of laundry list....

Fermtech Auto Syphon (syphon starter)
Fermtech Thief (for drawing samples)
Bottle draining tree
bottle sanitizer (sprays sanitizer inside bottles)
bottle/carboy washer (I prefer the Fermtech Blasts because they are excellent for rinsing hoses as well)
floor corker instead of hand corker
bottle filling wand (not included with some starter equipment kits)
nylon or cloth straining bags if you are making fruit wines
Fizz-X stirrer for your drill
some kind of vacuum thingee to help degas the wine

Probably missed something

Steve
(no I don't work for Fermtech, I just like some of their products, and use/sell in my store)


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## cpfan (Nov 20, 2006)

I'm going to add a second grouping here. If you are making one of the grape skin kits or making fruit wine, you may wish to find some way to remove the fruit from the primary before siphoning to carboy.

We usw a couple of items from the local restaurant supplyshop. One we call a skimmer, looks like a stainless steel net. The second is either a chinois or china cap. It's a big strainer or colander.

Some peole put the fruit in straining bags. SUre makes it easier to remove, but may not allow all the fruity goodness to be extracted.

Your choice.

Steve


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## cpfan (Nov 20, 2006)

One last item....

This forum is growing quickly but seems to have a lot of inexerienced wine makers.

You may wish to get a (free) membership to winepress.us. Many more members, so much more info, but also MANY MANY questions/answers/sillies/etc.

The smaller size of this forum is kinda nice, but there may be better/more answers there.

Steve


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## Caplan (Nov 20, 2006)

cpfan said:


> One last item....
> 
> This forum is growing quickly but seems to have a lot of inexerienced wine makers.
> 
> ...


Every forum starts small and grows into an 'on line community' over time. I'd suggest people stick around and keep contributing. This forum has only just been listed on search engines recently and will grow like it's sister site HomeBrewTalk.com has!


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## cpfan (Nov 20, 2006)

Caplan said:


> Every forum starts small and grows into an 'on line community' over time. I'd suggest people stick around and keep contributing. This forum has only just been listed on search engines recently and will grow like it's sister site HomeBrewTalk.com has!



How about being a member of both and contributing/learning at both places. I'm doing that. It isn't a competition, I hope.

Steve


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## cpfan (Nov 20, 2006)

While at work today I realized that I had omitted one very important item for the budding winemaker.

*PATIENCE*

Your wine will be much better if you take it slow and easy, and aren't in a rush to bottle & consume.

Steve


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## Caplan (Nov 21, 2006)

cpfan said:


> How about being a member of both and contributing/learning at both places. I'm doing that. It isn't a competition, I hope


I do agree with you Steve!  I was just commenting that this is a new site that needs time to grow. with only 400+ posts and 140+ members we're at the embryonic stage. 

Which also links beautifully to your next post when you consider the 'new forum' and our response to 'new winemakers' on here:- 



cpfan said:


> *PATIENCE*


Perfect advice!


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## BeerSlinger (Nov 22, 2006)

cpfan said:


> *PATIENCE*



You know.....that's been the hardest for me because I've been figuring up all of the equipment I need because I’m in the same boat as OGB......I've been calculating the equipment that I really need that I skipped before and to equip myself to do mashing, beer, wine and soda and its pushing my costs toward the four digit marker....

I had no idea it was going to be so expensive....on the otherhand; this ship has been set off to sea so there is no real turning back....But the costs have been almost crippling between materials and equipment…

But it seems it will level out over time…


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## smurfe (Nov 23, 2006)

BeerSlinger said:


> You know.....that's been the hardest for me because I've been figuring up all of the equipment I need because I’m in the same boat as OGB......I've been calculating the equipment that I really need that I skipped before and to equip myself to do mashing, beer, wine and soda and its pushing my costs toward the four digit marker....
> 
> I had no idea it was going to be so expensive....on the otherhand; this ship has been set off to sea so there is no real turning back....But the costs have been almost crippling between materials and equipment…
> 
> But it seems it will level out over time…



Yeah, it can get expensive if you let it. When I dove in I ordered a premiere starter equipment kit and have been adding to it since. I find I use everything from my equipment kit except the bottle blast washer that screws onto your spigot. I just use the spray wand hose on the sink. My point is I don't really need all of the stuff I have, it just makes it easier and quicker. But I totally agree that if you are into this for the long run, it pays off quickly. 

Figure what a bottle of wine you like costs and then figure out what you can make it for. Cabernet Sauvignon is my favorite wine. I found I was normally buying bottles that cost between $15-20 USD. After getting into wine making I found that many of these kits can make a wine that is just as good but normally better at a fraction of the cost. 

I have made about 30 kits thus far and believe I have more than earned back the money I have paid out for the equipment and the kits. I estimate each bottle of wine I make cost me around $4.00 a bottle to make but are comparable to those in the $25-30 range selling at the wine market. If I would use a less expensive kit, of course the cost will go down. This estimate is based on making a Wine Experts Estate Series kit which in my opinion are truly fine kits and I have not drank any of these wines that have disappointed me in any way at all.

Smurfe


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## BeerSlinger (Nov 23, 2006)

smurfe said:


> Yeah, it can get expensive if you let it. When I dove in I ordered a premiere starter equipment kit and have been adding to it since. I find I use everything from my equipment kit except the bottle blast washer that screws onto your spigot. I just use the spray wand hose on the sink. My point is I don't really need all of the stuff I have, it just makes it easier and quicker. But I totally agree that if you are into this for the long run, it pays off quickly.
> 
> Figure what a bottle of wine you like costs and then figure out what you can make it for. Cabernet Sauvignon is my favorite wine. I found I was normally buying bottles that cost between $15-20 USD. After getting into wine making I found that many of these kits can make a wine that is just as good but normally better at a fraction of the cost.
> 
> ...



I'm totally with you on that because I was looking myself at even doing what I want to do and given the price of fruit when it’s in season, or even dandelions out of my front yard with just some water, yeast and sugar.......it shouldn't cost much of anything to make something that will probably taste good....

I had just found it really depressing when I calculated last night that it’s going to cost over $300 for some stuff that I skipped but its convenient stuff that will enable me to produce what I want, when I want, in almost any condition....Like:

-a bottle washer so I can stop using so much water
-a chiller so it takes less then 24 hours to cool the wert
-a carboy heater so I can turn down the furnace during the winter
-more Kegs for a higher volume
-another fermenting pale so that my wine doesn’t have that hoppy overtone
-another Kettle so that I can mash and do my favorite chocolate-caramel-roasted beer
-a bottle tree so that my bottles will drain a bit better

When I was first starting, I never would have guessed that I would need this stuff. But I’m beginning to figure out quick that it will make my life quite easier in the long run.

On the other hand I’m also doing things to help save money like make my own water filter…I didn’t know this until I wanted to brew, and I know I’m going to sound like a red-neck but did you know that you can make a conventional water filter from some charcoal, socks and a spent pop bottle? I have even a diagram to make a multi stage filter…

I’m like anyone else, I’ll trim the fat where I can…


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## cpfan (Nov 23, 2006)

smurfe said:


> I find I use everything from my equipment kit except the bottle blast washer that screws onto your spigot. I just use the spray wand hose on the sink.



Smurfe, the plastic Blast washer performs a function that is hard to do otherwise (at least for me). It rinses the inside of the siphon hoses very neatly.

Steve


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## Caplan (Nov 23, 2006)

BeerSlinger said:


> I had just found it really depressing when I calculated last night that it’s going to cost over $300 for some stuff that I skipped but its convenient stuff that will enable me to produce what I want, when I want, in almost any condition....Like:
> 
> -a bottle washer so I can stop using so much water
> -a chiller so it takes less then 24 hours to cool the wert
> ...



It is expensive if you try and get every last piece of kit that you think will make your brewing easier in one go - It's better if you take your time. 

It's a real pain to wash and drain bottles but is a bottle tree _really_ essential right now? 

As far as wort is concerned you can make your own immersion chiller for a lot less than you can buy one - I did (but this is the wrong forum for that discussion! ).

Have you tried moving your carboy to a different room in the house that's more temp stable (if you don't have young children or pets to worry about) or considered insulating your carboy rather than getting a carboy heater (that you'll have to buy and then also spend electric on running)?

Plastic buckets are very cheap but I use the same plastic brew buckets for my beer, cider and wine primary fermentations. I've never had a problem with 'cross flavours' - My buckets get well washed with hot soapy water within 5 minutes of it's contents being moved to glass secondary. They're then dried and stored without being 'sealed'. The faint smell of the 'last brew' is there until I sanitize them for use again, however the flavour/smell never makes their way into the next brew.

Some things that seem 'essential' to home brewing wine/beer etc are in reality just superfluous. Spend your spare money on good quality wine kits, utilize free seasonal fruits/flowers etc for 'country wines' like the dandelion and then save for/build the rest of the equipment over time.

BTW BeerSlinger I used to use a similar water filter using activated carbon when bred fish. It worked great!


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## BeerSlinger (Nov 23, 2006)

Caplan said:


> It is expensive if you try and get every last piece of kit that you think will make your brewing easier in one go - It's better if you take your time.



Well, to be frank……I’m the type of person that would rather be tortured by being put on the rack vs the Chinese water torture………I see your point though…..



Caplan said:


> It's a real pain to wash and drain bottles but is a bottle tree _really_ essential right now?



No, I admit, I have about 12 items on my list but only three of them amount to $260 and they are the most essential components. To me, if I need that much anyway, I may as well and bite the whole bullet now VS later because with the non-essential items taken off but it really don’t make that big of a dent in the base price…



Caplan said:


> As far as wort is concerned you can make your own immersion chiller for a lot less than you can buy one - I did (but this is the wrong forum for that discussion! ).



Actually, I know enough about this subject to know that I neither have the talent nor the equipment to complete this task. I use to help put in Air-Conditioners and so I’m quite familiar with working with copper tube.



Caplan said:


> Have you tried moving your carboy to a different room in the house that's more temp stable (if you don't have young children or pets to worry about) or considered insulating your carboy rather than getting a carboy heater (that you'll have to buy and then also spend electric on running)?



In the winter, I let our house get as low as 45 degrees….most comfortable for me is 60 or below. In the summer I can’t stand to have it above 75. My environment is not the most conducive to brewing since I tend never to turn the furnace on in the winter and turn the air on in the summer to function. So when I found out the ferment temperatures on ale I had to turn the heat on…now I can’t wait for that batch to get done…

One of the first lessons that I learned was that in the winter, my house is built for Lagers….



Caplan said:


> Plastic buckets are very cheap but I use the same plastic brew buckets for my beer, cider and wine primary fermentations. I've never had a problem with 'cross flavours' - My buckets get well washed with hot soapy water within 5 minutes of it's contents being moved to glass secondary. They're then dried and stored without being 'sealed'. The faint smell of the 'last brew' is there until I sanitize them for use again, however the flavour/smell never makes their way into the next brew.



This was brought up on this bored and I did my first post and someone suggested this. It solidified in my mind when I cleaned my first bucket after my first ale and even after….I could still smell the LME. I know that I’ve heard for years that plastics are notorious for holding in chemicals so I’m doing this just to be safe



Caplan said:


> Some things that seem 'essential' to home brewing wine/beer etc are in reality just superfluous. Spend your spare money on good quality wine kits, utilize free seasonal fruits/flowers etc for 'country wines' like the dandelion and then save for/build the rest of the equipment over time.



Actually, this is what I have done….first I bought the Samual Adams Kit from www.beer-wine.com and then I bought a kegging system from http://www.leeners.com/ and finally a 9 gallon boiling pot from www.more-beer.com and now its time to round it out with a higher compacity, a chiller and a kettle that’s just meant for straight boiling (the one that I did order was more of a masher…).



Caplan said:


> BTW BeerSlinger I used to use a similar water filter using activated carbon when bred fish. It worked great!



Well, I did my research and I found out that 90 percent of them that are available for the general public are just fiber filters. The only charcoal was meant for commercial use. I actually found the diagram from a kid that did a science project at a university. I found the one with the charcoal, sock and pop bottle one from a retired army ranger that puts out just basic survival stuff on the web…..I was convinced when he took the filter out the nearest mud puddle and demonstrated it…..I was quite convinced…..

He also made a BBQ Grill out of a spare ammo box…..I found that quite entertaining……his site is like History Channels Mail Call on Crack……


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## docbee1 (Dec 5, 2006)

*Carboys???*

I am also looking into wine making after getting comfortable with beer making. One store informed me that i would need 6 gal carboys and not to use the 6.5 gal carboys because too much head space for the wine and O2. Since I have kegs and CO2 could I not just fill my 6.5 gal carboys with CO2 prior to transferring from the primary to the carboy and thus avoid the oxidation worries?


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## Caplan (Dec 6, 2006)

docbee said:


> I am also looking into wine making after getting comfortable with beer making. One store informed me that i would need 6 gal carboys and not to use the 6.5 gal carboys because too much head space for the wine and O2. Since I have kegs and CO2 could I not just fill my 6.5 gal carboys with CO2 prior to transferring from the primary to the carboy and thus avoid the oxidation worries?


If you move a wine off primary to a glass secondary and degas it I wouldn't worry about using a 6.5 Gal Carboy - it's still going to release more CO2.

The problem would be if you tried 'long term storage'. When your wine is clear simply bottle it - no oxidation worries!


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## smurfe (Dec 6, 2006)

When you add CO2 to a carboy, does it absorb into the wine? If so, won't that defeat the purpose of de-gassing? After you de-gas and have the wine stabilized, you want all of the CO2 out of the wine and topped off to prevent oxidation during the clearing stage as the CO2 is no longer blanketing the wine. Tell me more about the addition of CO2.

Smurfe


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## docbee1 (Dec 7, 2006)

I see your point and have thought of that too. In beer making I just let CO2 under low flow to "air out" the carboy to replace air with CO2 so when racking to the carboy i don't have to worry much about splashing ie introducing O2 into the beer. Was thinking that the CO2 blanket above the wine would protect against oxidation, but yeah some CO2 would be absorbed. After reading your picture tutorial (love the PJs) I figured that I would just go ahead and get 6 Gal carboys and use them specifically for wine making and not have to worry about oxidation. Few more sheckles, but less worries for the best product possible.


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## smurfe (Dec 7, 2006)

I know there are those that do use CO2 in wine making but to me it just seems like it defeats the purpose of de-gassing the wine. Speaking from experience by not de-gassing a kit completely (my very first kit) I can say that CO2 in the wine is mildly unpleasant. It creates an off odor and creates a fizzy feeling in the mouth feel. I can tolerate the slight "fizzyness" but the mild off odor from the CO2 is unpleasant toward the wine experience. I had to pop all of the corks and degass and re-bottle this wine to get it right. At first I would decant it to eliminate the odor but that got old.

Smurfe


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## Caplan (Dec 8, 2006)

docbee said:


> I see your point and have thought of that too. In beer making I just let CO2 under low flow to "air out" the carboy to replace air with CO2 so when racking to the carboy i don't have to worry much about splashing ie introducing O2 into the beer. Was thinking that the CO2 blanket above the wine would protect against oxidation, but yeah some CO2 would be absorbed.


De-gas your wine first. then rack to your carboy. If you added CO2 in it won't be 're absorbed' into your wine - to do that you'd need to put your wine under pressure in a keg with CO2 like beer. Adding a 'blanket' CO2 into the carboy is a 'belt and suspenders' way of ensuring the air is out. The slowly racked wine filling the bottom of a carboy (a dense Liquid) will push the CO2 (a light gas) out of the easiest hole - The carboy neck.


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## Norma (May 14, 2007)

*Brew Infuser (stainless steel)*





. 

Great for elderflowers, berries, oakchips, etc. Takes the hassle out of cleaning the carboys. I'm a lot more brave in experimenting with "flavourings" now because its so easy to just dip/infuse for a couple of days, then taste and continue. The alternative was using cheese cloth in the primary only and not being able to sanitize properly.


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