# Apple Wine Clearing



## ffemt128 (Jan 15, 2010)

I have a batch of Spiced Apple wine that I made from the recipe on Keller's site. I started the process on November 4 and it has been racked 2 times since transferring out of primary (abt every 4 weeks). Currently sitting in the carboy again with a board under one side (thanks Wade, great idea). There appears to be layer of sediment at the bottom of the carboy again and I can see a definitive line in the wine about 6" down the carboy where the wine is clearer on top and still solids in the lower part of carboy.

My question is, How long before this should clear on it's own. Currently about 2 1/2 months into the process. I was planning on racking again at the end of the month and adding camden tablets accordingly for the 3 gallon batch and allowing to rest in the carboy. I have not stabilized and currently the carboy is sitting on the shelf at the top of our basement steps at a temp of ~60-65. I guess I;m looking for a rough time frame for when it would be clear or when I should consider adding a clarifier if it does not clear in X amount of time.

When I rack, what should I top up with, any recommendations, last time only needed to top up a little so I used a Chardonay that we had. Any other wine recommendations or should I consider toping with apple juice. 

I smelled the wine the other day (curiousity) and it smells great, last racking it seemed to have a harsh smell, hard to explain but it smells good now. Looking forward to trying this around Halloween 2010 and maybe a sample or 2 sooner.


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## djrockinsteve (Jan 15, 2010)

Hey fellow Pittsburgher! I to have an apple wine bulk aging. I used a clearing agent so it's nice and clear now. I'm going to rack it once more then add some cinnamon sticks to it.

I would like to see how long that takes to clear on it's own. I would think several months and just rack it every 4-6 weeks to keep it off the sediment.

Maybe we could trade a bottle when their done. My apple wines in the past have always been great. I added some brown sugar this time. Can't wait.


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## xanxer82 (Jan 15, 2010)

Wine clears better at higher temperature. Get it to 70 to 75. Rack into clean carboy and degas again. My apple is dropping tons of sediment since I used fresh fruit, but it's clearing fairly quick.
You can also add bentonite. two teaspoons will work for a 6 gallon batch. If you're dead set on not useing an additive, follow above a couple times and lots of patience.


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## Tom (Jan 15, 2010)

Doug,
Both above are right. BUT, did you degas yet?
Get it warmer and add a clearing agent like Isinglass or super kleer. If you plan on adding a f-pac do it now and backsweeten if you want.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 15, 2010)

Hmmm, getting warmer I may have to rig up a curtain and put a small heater in there. I'm not opposed to using a clearing agent if needed. I was planning on racking eom then again at end of February and then possibly bottle if ready or continue to bulk age(it's in a 3 gallon carboy and I have an extra).

If I wanted to make and add an Fpack how would I go about doing so. I created this batch from scratch with a recipe using Jonathan and Fugi apples. It had cloves,cinnamon sticks, and ginger root added initially. When tasted at after 1st racking there was still a strong clove odor and taste to the wine. Initial SG was ~1.094 and the final femented down to .992 . Base on final SG I will need to back sweeten for sure. 

It sat in the kitchen at temps of ~70-74 until about the week before Christmas when I needed my kitchen table for baking. At that time I moved it to the landing and its about 60-65 degrees there. I can place a curtain around the area it is and put a small heater if needed. Is there any harm to allowing to clear at this temp?



> Hey fellow Pittsburgher! I to have an apple wine bulk aging. I used a clearing agent so it's nice and clear now. I'm going to rack it once more then add some cinnamon sticks to it.
> 
> I would like to see how long that takes to clear on it's own. I would think several months and just rack it every 4-6 weeks to keep it off the sediment.
> 
> Maybe we could trade a bottle when their done. My apple wines in the past have always been great. I added some brown sugar this time. Can't wait.



I'm quite new to wine making, but I'd be game for trading if this turns out okay. Wouldn't even consider it if it didn't turn out okay.


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## Julie (Jan 15, 2010)

djrockinsteve said:


> Hey fellow Pittsburgher! I to have an apple wine bulk aging. I used a clearing agent so it's nice and clear now. I'm going to rack it once more then add some cinnamon sticks to it.
> 
> I would like to see how long that takes to clear on it's own. I would think several months and just rack it every 4-6 weeks to keep it off the sediment.
> 
> Maybe we could trade a bottle when their done. My apple wines in the past have always been great. I added some brown sugar this time. Can't wait.



Oh, Oh, me too, me too. I have an apple wine and I am willing to trade.

I started this on October 3rd. sg was 1.080, it is now .994, acid at .70% and it is clearing slowly. I plan on letting this set until it clears completely on its own. My next racking isn't until February and then I plan on adding some cinnamon sticks. My last apple I had added cinnamon, cloves and ginger. The cloves were very strong, it did calm done but it took a long time. This time I plan on backsweeten with brown sugar.


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## arcticsid (Jan 15, 2010)

Doug look into one of these brew belts, they simply wrap around the carboy and only use about 25W of electricity(juice), pardon the pun. LOL. I haven't used one but many people in here have and they all say great things about them. If I remeber right they are pretty inexpensive, less than $20, cheaper than what you'll spend using an electric heater.

Troy


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## ffemt128 (Jan 15, 2010)

Julie said:


> Oh, Oh, me too, me too. I have an apple wine and I am willing to trade.
> 
> I started this on October 3rd. sg was 1.080, it is now .994, acid at .70% and it is clearing slowly. I plan on letting this set until it clears completely on its own. My next racking isn't until February and then I plan on adding some cinnamon sticks. My last apple I had added cinnamon, cloves and ginger. The cloves were very strong, it did calm done but it took a long time. This time I plan on backsweeten with brown sugar.



I actually thought about back sweetening with brown sugar also. I checked my acid and it was ~.54%. On the low end of the fruit wine scale. Cloves were still strong last time I tested. 

I figure I'll give it a while, have nothing but time for this one.


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## Julie (Jan 15, 2010)

ffemt128 said:


> I actually thought about back sweetening with brown sugar also. I checked my acid and it was ~.54%. On the low end of the fruit wine scale. Cloves were still strong last time I tested.
> 
> I figure I'll give it a while, have nothing but time for this one.



That acid might be a tad too low. Did you add any acid blend? The cloves took a couple of months to calm in my last wine.

Julie


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## ffemt128 (Jan 15, 2010)

Julie said:


> That acid might be a tad too low. Did you add any acid blend? The cloves took a couple of months to calm in my last wine.
> 
> Julie



I did add acid blend as per the recipe. I was considering adding more to bring it into the middle of the suggested range. Your suggestions?


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## Tom (Jan 15, 2010)

Remember.
A recipe is what they did then.
All fruit will change by the year and local. so. when ADDING ACID BLEND.. DON'T unless you do a TA test. That alone can make a huge difference.


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## Julie (Jan 16, 2010)

I would bring it up to around .60% to .65%

Julie


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## ffemt128 (Jan 16, 2010)

I brought up the acid to .70%, I added 3 tsp of acid blend for the 3 gallons of wine. I am also in the process of increasing the heat in the area. I have a ceramic cube heater that only runs if needed and doesn't cost a bunch to run. I'm only heating an area about 2 1/2' W x 4' D x 4 1/2' H. I'll get the temp up to around 70 and then check to see if the brew place has brew belts.

I thought I had read somewhere the brewbelts were not recommended for glass carboys. Is there any truth to that, what is the hazard?


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## ThousandJulys (Jan 16, 2010)

I too am making an six strain red/green apple wine. It's so hazy, all the way to the top. I am about to use my bentonite mixture. Basically I had to boil the bentonite to mix it for two minutes in 2.5 cups of water, and then mix until completely dissolved. I think bentonite is made of weathered volcanic glass, and expands and grabs particulate matter and falls. I believe you use it for two weeks to clear it (I am going to clear it in my primary again and then back into my 5gal glass carboy.) 

About to add, will let you know how it works out. I won't be able to see how clear it is, but I will just scoop some up with a glass real quick after the two weeks (trying not to disturb the sediment) and if it's to my liking, I am going to re-rack. I have yet to do an acid test or add my cinnamon, and also plan on adding some brown sugar before I bottle (I'm only at 1 month fermentation so far.)


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## Julie (Jan 16, 2010)

ThousandJulys said:


> I too am making an six strain red/green apple wine. It's so hazy, all the way to the top. I am about to use my bentonite mixture. Basically I had to boil the bentonite to mix it for two minutes in 2.5 cups of water, and then mix until completely dissolved. I think bentonite is made of weathered volcanic glass, and expands and grabs particulate matter and falls. I believe you use it for two weeks to clear it (I am going to clear it in my primary again and then back into my 5gal glass carboy.)
> 
> About to add, will let you know how it works out. I won't be able to see how clear it is, but I will just scoop some up with a glass real quick after the two weeks (trying not to disturb the sediment) and if it's to my liking, I am going to re-rack. I have yet to do an acid test or add my cinnamon, and also plan on adding some brown sugar before I bottle (I'm only at 1 month fermentation so far.)



Is it done fermenting? I do not have experience with Benonite but I would think you should wait longer than 1 month and I think you should probably make sure fermentation is complete. Also, I am not sure about putting into a fermentor. Maybe someone else with more experience will chime in.

Julie


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## ffemt128 (Jan 16, 2010)

Went to the brew store to get some other stuff and totally forgot to check to see if they had brew belts, not loss. I have it up to 72 degrees now in an enclosed area. I picked up some brown sugar tonight and will back sweeten at next racking then let sit for a minimum of a month or two prior to bottleing.

What's the best way to get more apple flavor if it's desired? (wife gets to make that decision) Extract or Juice or possibly juice concentrate?

Thanks.


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## Tom (Jan 16, 2010)

*Adding Flavor*

Simple,
Get at least 1/2 gal of apple juice and simmer to 1/2 or less than starting volume. Cool and add. This is called a f-pac. Then back sweeten using simple syrup.
You may need to add another clearing agent..


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## ffemt128 (Jan 16, 2010)

Tom said:


> Simple,
> Get at least 1/2 gal of apple juice and simmer to 1/2 or less than starting volume. Cool and add. This is called a f-pac. Then back sweeten using simple syrup.
> You may need to add another clearing agent..



Good deal on the f-pac. I'll see what is needed after back sweetening as far as clearing agent. Any preferences for clearing agents if needed? Bentonite, sparkolid, etc. I'm still new and learning what all this does and how they react.


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## Tom (Jan 16, 2010)

I like Isinglass or SupreKleer (2-part)
Spatkolliod will also work. I find it tales a little longer..


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## ffemt128 (Jan 16, 2010)

Tom said:


> I like Isinglass or SupreKleer (2-part)
> Spatkolliod will also work. I find it tales a little longer..



Good deal, I actually picked up some SupreKleer last month in the event that I would need it for the Apple. I believe the W.E. Kits come with Chitosan but both I have done so far also had bentonite added early in the process.

What is the logic for adding the bentonite early vs later?


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## Tom (Jan 16, 2010)

If helps settle the solids (lees) during the primary. Some of the kits tell you to add before adding the yeast.


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## ThousandJulys (Jan 16, 2010)

Yes, it is done fermenting. The PA started at 11%, and I racked it into the secondary at 3% PA. After the past few weeks, the bubbling has stopped in the air lock, so I assume it's at 11% alc/vol and ready to be cleansed (I drink my wines early, as in...three months and then straight from the carboy to the wine glass, as they do in Japan.) 

The lees and a bulk of the sediment were removed from the racking into the primary for the bentonite to do it's work. I mixed it in real well just now, and it should keep clearing for two weeks (according to my research on using bentonite to remove haze from 5 gallons of wine.) 

It will be re-racked back into the secondary glass carboy after this process, and then possibly again as usual over the months...



Julie said:


> Is it done fermenting? I do not have experience with Benonite but I would think you should wait longer than 1 month and I think you should probably make sure fermentation is complete. Also, I am not sure about putting into a fermentor. Maybe someone else with more experience will chime in.
> 
> Julie


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## ffemt128 (Jan 21, 2010)

Wine is still clearing, I ended up moving it to the 2nd floor bedroom where the temp is more consistent for continued clearing. 

I believe it was Tom who stated to used a 1/2 gallon of juice and simmer down to a quart to make an f-pac. My question is would the fine, knowledgeable folks on the board recommend using juice or cider to make the f-pac from or doesn't it matter. 

I was planning on checking the wine in about 2 weeks and possibly adding then. I would then let sit so F-pac could mix with wine for flavor absorption and then back sweeten further if needed. Does this sound reasonable and if so how long to let sit before back sweetening or do both steps at same time?

I realize I will have to allow to clear again after this.

Thanks


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## Tom (Jan 21, 2010)

How much is the batch?
I would use apple juice or concentrate. Remember when adding f-pac you will need to clear the wine.
I always add the f-pac before clearing


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## ffemt128 (Jan 21, 2010)

Tom said:


> How much is the batch?
> I would use apple juice or concentrate. Remember when adding f-pac you will need to clear the wine.
> I always add the f-pac before clearing



It is a 3 gallon batch. I didn't think about the f-pac prior to clearing as I wanted to see how it tasted prior to making the decision to go the f-pac route. 

Would I be better off adding that now, wait say 2 weeks for flavor absorbtion, then back sweeten if needed and then continue clearing? How much of an f-pac do you think would be needed for the 3 gallons. I don't want a strong apple taste but right now, it fermented very dry .992 and it is lacking in apple flavor while the cinnimon and clove flavors are stronger. Don't get me wrong, it tasted good as it is.


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## Tom (Jan 21, 2010)

Yea I would add now. After simmering the juice add slowly mix and "taste" as you go. MAKE SURE you added the k-meta and sorbate before adding


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## ffemt128 (Jan 21, 2010)

Tom said:


> Yea I would add now. After simmering the juice add slowly mix and "taste" as you go. MAKE SURE you added the k-meta and sorbate before adding



k-meta and sorbate were added last racking. Should this cool to room temp prior to adding I assume?


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## Tom (Jan 21, 2010)

Well dont have to be room temp just dont add boiling to the wine. 140* is OK.
You want to "simmer" NOT boil. Simmer can take 1/2 hour to reduce


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## ffemt128 (Jan 21, 2010)

Good deal, sounds like a project for tomorrow night. I'm planning on letting this sit in the carboy for another 2 months before bottleing so additional clearing should not be a problem.

Thanks for putting up with all the questions so far. Still new and learning.


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## Tom (Jan 21, 2010)

Ask away..
We enjoy helping.


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## xanxer82 (Jan 21, 2010)

This is good stuff here. I'm going to backsweeten my apple wine soon too. After all of these lees drop out.


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## bruno (Jan 22, 2010)

I just used some hot mix sparkaloid to clear my apple wine which I started last fall. It had been very hazy and was not improving. The sparkaloid worked overnight. The wine was crystal clear the next morning, and the sparkaloid seemed to make "clumps" of stuff which fell to the bottom of the carboy very quickly. I also used it to clear 5 gallons of cayuga white which was 90% clear but still showed a bit of haze. Same results, crystal clear overnight.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 23, 2010)

I made my f-pac yesterday and added it to the apple wine. Yum Yum.... I used about 3 quarts of lucky leaf apple juice and simered down to a little more than a quart. During this process I added cinnimon to the apple juice prior to simmering. 

I prepared 3 2 oz samples with differing amounts of f-pac and had my wife and son try them to determine the amount to add. I added the f-pac to the wine at a temp of about 110-120 degrees and stirred to mix. 

Amazing enough I think adding the hot f-pac made the wine clear faster. I may be crazy but it looks clearer now than it did prior to adding it. It's a nice amber color now and my samples I prepared for my wife to try were yummy.

Now off for another month of aging in the carboy before determining if it stays in carboy or goes to bottles.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 25, 2010)

I took a couple pictures of the Apple Wine today to show the clarity and color of it. This is going to be yummy in a few months.


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## xanxer82 (Jan 25, 2010)

thats a pretty wine. I've gotta rack my apple this week into a 5 gallon carboy. Definitely not 6 gallons anymore after the first racking. Even using Pectic enzyme it's dropping a lot of lees.


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## Wade E (Jan 25, 2010)

Pectic enzyme has nothing to do with lees dropping or not, it just makes the wine have more color and flavor from what ever you used to make the wine.


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## xanxer82 (Jan 26, 2010)

I thought the PE also reduces Pectic Haze therefore helping in the clarification process as well.


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## ThousandJulys (Jan 26, 2010)

Pectic enzyme will not so much help remove haze as add more color and flavor like Wade said. It WILL help a tad in the beginning, just be patient after you clear and it will be swell


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## Wade E (Jan 26, 2010)

It will help remove a pectin haze but if you use it in the beginning you should not have to add it again later.


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## xanxer82 (Jan 27, 2010)

It's clearing pretty well so far. I've got to get a stopper to fit my 5 gal mexican carboy...I thing a 7 may work... I'll try to get a pic up. Hopefully it wille ventually look as nice as FFemt's applewine.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 27, 2010)

xanxer82 said:


> It's clearing pretty well so far. I've got to get a stopper to fit my 5 gal mexican carboy...I thing a 7 may work... I'll try to get a pic up. Hopefully it wille ventually look as nice as FFemt's applewine.



Thanks for the compliment. Since everything was looking pretty clear I transferred into another carboy again tonight. It tasted like it needed a bit more flavoring so I added another small bit of f-pac and stirred it in. Still crystal clear and I bottled my first bottle with what was left after I extracted to add the f-pac. It's yummy....

Here's the label I created for the apple wine. Hope you like it.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 29, 2010)

I picked up some 375 ml bottles yesterday. When I bottle this I want to put some into the smaller bottles for those times when you don't want a full bottle of wine and also to give away to a few people to try. Will likely bottle towards end of February then let age in the cool basement. I really need to make my wine closet under the basement steps....


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## ffemt128 (Jan 31, 2010)

Had a friend over and they wanted to try the apple. I have to say, I'm quitesatified with it even at the early age.


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## ffemt128 (Feb 9, 2010)

I bottled the apple wine last night. All I can say is Oh My......Is this stuff good...... I wish now I would have made a 5 or 6 gallon batch but it was my first scratch batch. I ended up with 12 - 750 ml bottles and 7 - 375ml bottles after the addition of the f-pac. I have to hide several bottles of this to keep us from hitting all of it before we can get another batch going. Next harvest season will definately be a big batch....


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## Wade E (Feb 9, 2010)

Glad it came out good for you.


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## ffemt128 (Feb 9, 2010)

Wade E said:


> Glad it came out good for you.



Thank you... I must say that I am quite impressed with how it turned out being my first scratch batch but, I had a lot of advise from members here. You all can pat yourselves on the back for a job well done.

Thanks to all to offered advise and answered my many questions.


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## seth8530 (Jan 2, 2011)

Did the cloves mellow out? and when did you add them in and when did you remove them? about how much cloves did you use? Ive got an appel wine going right now and i started it with cloves and its almost a month old right now and taste quite strongly of cloves.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 3, 2011)

seth8530 said:


> Did the cloves mellow out? and when did you add them in and when did you remove them? about how much cloves did you use? Ive got an appel wine going right now and i started it with cloves and its almost a month old right now and taste quite strongly of cloves.



My first batch I used the recommended amount of cloves. It was very strong. Each of the 2 batches after I reduced the amount of cloves in half each time and they were only on the juice a week. Very strong clove flavor. The Fpac does help this, I think this 12 gallons I have going now may be the best so far. Clove flavor is there but not prominent and it is mellowing.


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## seth8530 (Jan 3, 2011)

Ok, so i will be definintly removing the cloves on the next racking that i have. THanks  !


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## JasonH (Jan 3, 2011)

I only used 1/4th of the cloves recomended for my spiced apple and I'm pretty happy with it. It isn't over powering but you can definitely taste them. I would imagine that the type (brand) of cloves you use have a major impact on the strength making a recipe online hard to reproduce.


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 4, 2011)

ffemt128 said:


> My first batch I used the recommended amount of cloves. It was very strong. Each of the 2 batches after I reduced the amount of cloves in half each time and they were only on the juice a week. Very strong clove flavor. The Fpac does help this, I think this 12 gallons I have going now may be the best so far. Clove flavor is there but not prominent and it is mellowing.



I used 2 tbsp of cloves - but i put mine in a tea bag and place in the primary. I removed this after 3 days - came out just right.


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## ffemt128 (Jan 4, 2011)

winemaker_3352 said:


> I used 2 tbsp of cloves - but i put mine in a tea bag and place in the primary. I removed this after 3 days - came out just right.



Cloves are very strong and the flavor remains for quite a while. As long as it's not too over powering, I can deal with it. I think next batch the amount will likely get cut a little more.


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 4, 2011)

ffemt128 said:


> Cloves are very strong and the flavor remains for quite a while. As long as it's not too over powering, I can deal with it. I think next batch the amount will likely get cut a little more.



How much did you add? And did you just add the cloves directly into the must? If so - try the tea bag - a lot easier to control your exposure.


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## seth8530 (Jan 6, 2011)

ooof yall got me worried cuz i added an ounce of em on.


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## Julie (Jan 6, 2011)

seth8530 said:


> ooof yall got me worried cuz i added an ounce of em on.



an ounce of cloves? how big a batch are you making and had long has the cloves been in?


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## seth8530 (Jan 6, 2011)

its a 7 gallon batch and a week and a half i think


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## Julie (Jan 6, 2011)

well that is a lot of cloves, taste it to see how strong it is. Actually I would probably pull the cloves out taste to see if you get any clove taste and if not just add a couple cloves


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## ffemt128 (Jan 6, 2011)

Julie said:


> well that is a lot of cloves, taste it to see how strong it is. Actually I would probably pull the cloves out taste to see if you get any clove taste and if not just add a couple cloves



We used about 2 oz for what started as a 12 1/2 gallon batch. I left them in with fresh ginger for a week. It has been since October and the clove tastes is still there. I haven't back sweetened yet so that will help with the clove taste.


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## seth8530 (Jan 6, 2011)

How strong is the clove taste in yours?.. and Juile ur scaring me


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 6, 2011)

That is why i put them in tea bags and removed after a few days. That clove smell/taste is over powering and can take over pretty easily.


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## seth8530 (Jan 6, 2011)

yeah, im hoping that the taste will mellow out over the course of the aging proccess


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