# Coconut wine?



## BernardSmith

I very recently read a paper published in the Journal of Brewing and Distilling (2011) about attempts to make wine from coconut meat. Palm wine is traditionally made from tapping the sap of palm trees but that process apparently damages and then kills the tree. So this paper describes a very small experiment wherein the author, Okiemute Idise, sets out to see whether he can make a similar tasting and similar looking wine to palm wine using the fruit itself. My question: has anyone on this forum tried to make a wine from coconuts? I would have thought that given the amount of oil in the fruit that this would be a challenge but Idise makes no mention of any problem with the oils..


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## Deezil

I've read of it but haven't tried it yet.
Plan to though. 

I've read that the oils float to the top, essentially starving the yeast of oxygen and making the fermentation process troublesome. I've also considered using a combination of coconut meat and coconut water.

When I do attempt it, I'll probably use honey and make a mead of it.


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## BernardSmith

I used coconut water (is that called coconut milk?) in a coffee** wine I made. Did not come through at all, IMO.. Regarding the oil issue. My thinking is that if one was to vigorously stir the must several times a day any layer of air would be broken up and air would be introduced into the wine. After the gravity drops to the point where you want to rack the wine into a carboy any oils floating on the surface would need to be skimmed off - fats, I assume, become rancid and I would think that aging would then lead to off flavors. 

I think a gallon batch of coconut wine is on my to do list for February. 

**For the record, the coffee wine was too bitter to enjoy and I thought that the experiment was an abject failure... I cracked open a bottle this past week and after two years the flavors have mellowed incredibly and the wine is now one I would have no problem opening for friends. Always good to be reminded by my own work how important time and patience is in wine making


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## Deezil

Coconut water looks like water and has a really light flavor; coconut milk is white like milk and is thicker and sweeter - two different products. Coconut water is the liquid found inside the coconut, where coconut milk, I believe, is from the meat of the coconut.. I believe it's pressed out, but not 100% on that.

I've read of the oils being skimmed or soaked into a paper towel off the top of the fermentation.. it's these oils going rancid like you mention, that spoils the batches. I want to try both a paper towel and a turkey baster to get the oils off. It's going to take a little experimentation to get it right. I think it's something that will need to be done more than once, then get it all.

It's on my list of to-makes too.

When you start it, just start it here and maybe between the two of us, we can get this nailed down


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## BernardSmith

Will do... Will see if my local supermarket has any coconuts.. Trying to figure out how many pounds of fruit I need for one gallon - and how many coconuts that will require... I'm thinking 4 or 5 lbs of coconut meat? Or I wonder if anyone sells just 100% pure coconut milk (without the thickeners and preservatives)..


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## BernardSmith

Jack Keller talks about using 1 lb of dried coconut to which he adds rice and dates... I have no problem with using honey or date syrup rather than sugar (although his recipe calls for sugar) but rice? Perhaps doubling the coconut to 2 lbs (dry).


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## BernardSmith

Found a supply of coconut milk with K-meta used as the preservative. Not sure how much was used but I bought a gallon and will create a starter and add the c-milk to the starter in small batches ...


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## Deezil

Where'd you score that at? I'm intrigued

I can't remember what the rice is for, but I know it's not fermentable sugars


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## BernardSmith

There is a store in the Bronx called Garden Gourmet. They sell all kinds of lovely fresh vegetables (the area is incredibly cosmopolitan) and all kinds of international foods. Goya makes cans of coconut milk with 3 ingredients - coconut milk , water and k-meta - Most of the other brands seem to contain contain carageenan and other additives...


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## mmadmikes1

First squeeze organic coconut milk is sold at most coops. There is a new one in Tacoma that has it. It aint cheap. I pay 3.50 for 12 oz can. I am thinking flacked meat would work better and cost less. Most is sweetened. Now I think I will go have a piece of coconut cream pie


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## BernardSmith

The milk I got cost $1.75 a can - 13.5 oz... but this is the Bronx... It's a Goya product - no added sugar (so there is about 1 gm of sugar in each "serving".(7 servings) And I creamed off about a cup of what I think is oil from the surface of the bucket this morning (I am hoping that the k-meta used as a preservative will evaporate off in the course of the 24 hours I have it exposed to the air (although covered with a paper towel before I pitch the yeast).


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## Rodnboro

If you just want the coconut taste, Cornucopia makes a Coconut Frascati kit. I made this one as per instructions and increased the ABV to 10%. It was cheap enough to try and turned out pretty good for a sweet wine.


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## PandemoniumWines

How did your coconut wine turn out?


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## FlamingoEmporium

I have so many coconuts, but the idea of coconut wine doesn’t really intrigue me. Definitely NOT from the coconut meat of ripe coconuts. It’s more oil than anything else and you would think that’s where the flavor comes from (but not really) coconut water, from immature coconuts is what should probably be used. As was mentioned it looks like clear water,(kind of tastes like that too) but there is a rum distillery here that makes the best coconut rum I’ve EVER tasted (not that coconut flavoring stuff). They use coconut water for the flavor. The coconuts should be at the stage where they are full of water and the pulp is just starting to form as a jelly. Not the coconut you would buy in a store. If you have to, look for the “box” of coconut water. Somebody mentioned Goya, Iberia etc.


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## FlamingoEmporium

OK now I’m curious. Wondering why I couldn’t replace some water in my recipe (tap, spring, (distilled) or whatever) with coconut water. 

I still have a lot of young coconuts that produce at least 10 ounces of water. When young they produce sweet clear water that is somewhat sweet but not necessarily strong coconut tasting. 


There really isn’t any coconut meat at this point only small amounts of white cream / jelly 

I don’t know where to find the amount of sugar in raw coconut water. 

When I make my next batch of mango wine I’m thinking of doing a separate batch of mango coconut water wine to see the result. I’m wondering if backsweetening with coconut water might add anything to the taste as well 

I should have some mango wine to backsweeten in a month or so when it’s aged enough (2 months in secondary at present)


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## Ohio Bob

I don’t know where to find the amount of sugar in raw coconut water.

Do you have a refractometer? All it takes is a droplet to measure the Brix level.


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## FlamingoEmporium

I don’t have a refractometer. I don’t know what is is or whether I need extra space in my garage to park it


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## Ohio Bob

FlamingoEmporium said:


> I don’t have a refractometer. I don’t know what is is or whether I need extra space in my garage to park it


Between $20-$50, hand held, uses ambient light refracted onto a prism. Through the eye piece you read the amount of sugar in the droplet on a scale engraved in the eye piece.

Vineyard tenders use them to do quick field tests of their grapes to determine ripeness.


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## David Violante

These are great gadgets pre-fermentation; I have one and use it just as Bob mentioned.

Just know that they don’t replace your hydrometer. A few of us here and there have at one time or another forgotten this and thought it would be just as easy to put a drop of fermenting must on the lens and see where the SG falls. However, as the alcohol increases the refraction of the light changes and you don’t get the reading you think you’re supposed to. I‘ve definitely done that . They are great though for their intended purpose.


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## BigDaveK

I can appreciate your trying to use what you have on hand. I try to source most of my raw material from the yard and garden, also. As far as coconuts, though, I've got zero to add.

That being said, I have thought about experimenting with different sugars - like coconut palm sugar.


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## Rice_Guy

A quick and dirty specific gravity;

* dilute the coconut water 1:1 with distilled water, if mixed in a blender a minute continue otherwise mix till smooth
* do a gravity reading as normal on this 50% mixture, example it might be 1.030
* with said gravity reading subtract 1.000, example 1.030 minus 1.000 is 0.030 this represents the increase in density due to the solids
* multiply the fraction number by the dilution rate, example 0.030 times two is 0.060, this represents the solids found in the original sample
* add 1.000 back to the corrected solids number, example 1.000 plus 0.060 means the original sample was at 1.060

_this will not work after fermentation since alcohol has a density below 1.000.
gravity numbers are linear against the soluble solids
every crop has some variation in sugar versus soluble solids, to be accurate/ not quick and dirty one needs a hydrometer which is calibrated for said crop_


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## FlamingoEmporium

Rice_Guy said:


> A quick and dirty specific gravity;
> 
> * dilute the coconut water 1:1 with distilled water, if mixed in a blender a minute continue otherwise mix till smooth
> * do a gravity reading as normal on this 50% mixture, example it might be 1.030
> * with said gravity reading subtract 1.000, example 1.030 minus 1.000 is 0.030 this represents the increase in density due to the solids
> * multiply the fraction number by the dilution rate, example 0.030 times two is 0.060, this represents the solids found in the original sample
> * add 1.000 back to the corrected solids number, example 1.000 plus 0.060 means the original sample was at 1.060
> 
> _this will not work after fermentation since alcohol has a density below 1.000.
> gravity numbers are linear against the soluble solids
> every crop has some variation in sugar versus soluble solids, to be accurate/ not quick and dirty one needs a hydrometer which is calibrated for said crop_



This sounds quick and simple easy for me to do.
so let’s say after we do that math we find out that sample was 1.060. i’m still new so bear with me here. what’s that tell me about sugar content ? For instance cane sugar and water mixture would be 1.100 or 1.090 etc ? I realize the higher that number the more sugar content ?

and what if I just checked the SG of ALL coconut water instead of 1/2 distilled ? Coconut water is just like water as far as viscosity. 
i think m going to have to experiment some.


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## Rice_Guy

If a 50% sample tested at 1.060 the calculated gravity for 100% is 1.120
1.120 with straight sucrose in DW represents a 38.68% sugar solution

1.100 with only sucrose in distilled water is a 31.18% sugar solution

1.090 with only sucrose in distilled water is a 27.43% sugar solution
, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , 
IF you are an old fart there are tables in the text books from college. IF you are calibrating a hydrometer the procedure is to mix salt with distilled water (at 25C) and again this is a table in standard methods
AND if you aren't an old fart with old books there is a calculator on the web.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Wow that was helpful. Almost as good as a textbook. Yes I’m definitely an old fart !
when I was little, dirt was still white. 
i flunked chemistry in high school and had to take it in summer school that year. The year ? 1969. If it weren’t for summer school, I quite likely would have made the 2 hour drive in my corvair to Woodstock. so chemistry may have saved me from who knows what.
anyhow, I think I will www on the interweb and calculate a chart.

i think coconut water might have a future in some mango wine. 

I’ll report on some coconut water findings later this week hopefully. Road trip to cocoa beach and st Augustine tomorrow.


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## winemaker81

> and what if I just checked the SG of ALL coconut water instead of 1/2 distilled ? Coconut water is just like water as far as viscosity.


This takes the math out of it. If the reading is 1.060, then that's it; no calculation necessary. Brix is 15.5 and potential alcohol is 8.3%.

I found a couple of references that said coconut water has ~3g / 100 ml, which means 3 brix, or SG 1.012. Assuming this is correct, there is sugar, but not a lot by winemaking standards.

There are a couple of ways to use the coconut water. One is to calculate how much sugar is in the amount of coconut water you're using, and subtract that from the extra sugar you plan to add.

A quickie calculation that assumes you are using 100% coconut water in place of normal water: If the target is 24 brix and coconut water is 3 brix, then 24/3 = 8, meaning the coconut water replaces 1/8 the total amount of added sugar. If you're using partial coconut water, the calculation gets a bit hairier.

Me? I learned to be cautious of trusting the calculations, as once you've added something to the wine, taking it out is rather difficult. So in the above situation, I'd add half the sugar, stir very well, and check SG. Incrementally add sugar until hitting the target SG.


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## Rice_Guy

*WOW! my first car was a 1964 Corvair which went in storage in fall as I moved to college, , , , and then some how it wound up in a brothers garage. That was a sweet car.*


FlamingoEmporium said:


> 1969. If it weren’t for summer school, I quite likely would have made the 2 hour drive in my corvair to Woodstock. so chemistry may have saved me from who knows what.


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## FlamingoEmporium

winemaker81 said:


> Me? I learned to be cautious of trusting the calculations, as once you've added something to the wine, taking it out is rather difficult. So in the above situation, I'd add half the sugar, stir very well, and check SG. Incrementally add sugar until hitting the target SG.



if there is one thing I’ve learned so far, it’s the hydrometer is a VERY important tool. 

that and @BigDaveK will make wine out of most anything.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Rice_Guy said:


> *WOW! my first car was a 1964 Corvair which went in storage in fall as I moved to college, , , , and then some how it wound up in a brothers garage. That was a sweet car.*


Wish I still had one.


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## FlamingoEmporium

BigDaveK said:


> I can appreciate your trying to use what you have on hand. I try to source most of my raw material from the yard and garden, also. As far as coconuts, though, I've got zero to add.
> 
> That being said, I have thought about experimenting with different sugars - like coconut palm sugar.


That’s a good point. They use coconut for sugar / sweetener


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## FlamingoEmporium

Not sure if that gains me much advantage over just water.

that’s about 5 brix ?


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> if there is one thing I’ve learned so far, it’s the hydrometer is a VERY important tool.
> 
> that and @BigDaveK will make wine out of most anything.


All my life I've been "different". Never followed the crowd. Don't care for the status quo. Don't like boring. I always wanted to see what was behind the curtain.

A minor correction to what you said - I will make a wine out of anything. Once I have a disaster or two it will become "most anything".


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## winemaker81

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Not sure if that gains me much advantage over just water


Do it for fun.


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## Jovimaple

Just to throw this whole conversation off track ... when I get home from next week's vacation, I am going to start a pineapple wine (from canned juice) and use pina colada mix to backsweeten. It won't be pure coconut wine, but I am hopeful it will be a delicious summer drink!


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## VinesnBines

Jovimaple said:


> Just to throw this whole conversation off track ... when I get home from next week's vacation, I am going to start a pineapple wine (from canned juice) and use pina colada mix to backsweeten. It won't be pure coconut wine, but I am hopeful it will be a delicious summer drink!


To go a little further down this rabbit hole; I added some Malibu Rum (coconut flavored) and Everclear to a gallon of banana wine to stop fermentation and make a port style. I had to use the Everclear because the Malibu was too low in alcohol for good fortification. I think it will have a nice flavor. I had the idea after mixing a bit of the Malibu into a banana wine to improve the flavor.


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## FlamingoEmporium

VinesnBines said:


> ; I added some Malibu Rum (coconut flavored)



I love fruity tropical drinks. i love rum. Not malibu flavored rum. I’ve mentioned before there is a rum distillery here they use natural flavors not canned flavors. Best coconut rum in the world. Uses real coconut water. i have had Malibu on many occasions previously. Kind of like making a cab with fresh grapes and topping off convenience store wine Though. 

im not knocking your mix it probably is good. I’m just hoping to get coconut flavor a different way.


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## David Violante

FlamingoEmporium said:


> I’ve mentioned before there is a rum distillery here they use natural flavors not canned flavors. Best coconut rum in the world.


Some of the best Rum I’ve had is from sugar cane (Flor de caña, Havana Club…). Simply amazing…


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## joeswine

How about a coconut extract infused in a base white wine ? That will work.


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## FlamingoEmporium

David Violante said:


> Some of the best Rum I’ve had is from sugar cane (Flor de caña, Havana Club…). Simply amazing…


Don’t get me going. I had some sugar cane growing 2 years ago. It’s yummy to chew on. I’m going to need info now on using sugar cane

anybody ever used juiced sugar cane ?


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## FlamingoEmporium

OK so if I do make a coconut wine I don’t think I would just use coconut water and nothing else. I think I would have to have a companion flavor.
I’ve got lots of lime juice in the freezer.  put the lime in the coconut 

I kind of like the piña colada idea, or something to give it a little color.
i don’t think strawberry is a great combo, maybe plum or guava. What goes with coconut ?


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## FlamingoEmporium

Right now I’ve got some overripe pineapple in the fridge I might toss in the freezer. All this talk about piña colada wine has me thinking. Might be too wild flavored for me though. I’ve got mango galore in the freezer and I’m might go that way otherwise I’d have to source some other fruit at the store.

howabout you guys who make hibiscus wine. What flowers are you using ? 
that has a nice ring to it coconut hibiscus wine.


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## joeswine

Sounds like a lot of work my friends, good luck .
Think about another way anybase white wine, an Alcohol coconut extract from ( olive nation) and in the primary add one medium can of pineapple chunks, 
Bring the abv up to 10% work the process all the way through to the finish allow it to clear (as per finial instructions). 
Then bottle and let it sit first lest 1 year it will be just right.
Just my thoughts I’ve been down this road before, it works .


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## FlamingoEmporium

joeswine said:


> Sounds like a lot of work
> Think about another way anybase white wine, an Alcohol coconut extract


its just going to be all coconut water add some fresh pineapple and sugar. Not a lot of work. 
the whole idea is I have coconuts, lots of coconuts  . They are filled with water (coconut water) with an SG of 1.020
cut the top off and take out the water. That’s why God gave me a machete.

no need to add water. No need to buy extract (in my opinion it isn’t really coconut but chemicals that taste like coconut)
no need to buy wine kit or grapes to add flavoring to.

im trying to figure out if indeed you CAN make coconut wine from coconut water.


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## David Violante

There’s one way to find out…!


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## FlamingoEmporium

David Violante said:


> There’s one way to find out…!


I’m getting close. I’ve got to get a few new carboys before I can start anything else.

gotta go shopping at carboys r us shortly. I have the mango finishing off (1 month to bottling, and the loquat batch is taking up everything I have right now.

i really didn’t think I would want to make coconut wine but now it’s like a challenge. I just put most of a fresh cut up pineapple in the freezer to add to the batch.


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## winemaker81

FlamingoEmporium said:


> That’s why God gave me a machete.


Thanks for saying that while I was drinking wine!



FlamingoEmporium said:


> im trying to figure out if indeed you CAN make coconut wine from coconut water.


Seriously? Haven't you been paying ANY attention to @BigDaveK? You can make wine from ANYTHING if you really want to. Except chaw. No one in their right mind would even consider something so vile.  

If it were me? Collect your coconut water, exercising that machete!

Chaptalize to 1.085 to 1.095.

I have no idea if it needs it, but I'd add pectic enzyme. If it doesn't need it, no harm done, and if it does? It saves a step.

Add acid blend (or tartaric), yeast nutrient, and powdered tannin.

Since I have NO idea what this is gonna taste like, add no other fruit, especially pineapple. Ferment dry and clear it. Bulk age for 3-4 months, then taste it and figure where to go from there.


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## ChuckD

I like the idea of fermenting just the coconut first. That way you know what you are dealing with. You can always add pineapple or banana or strawberry or more coconut later when you back sweeten.


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## David Violante

I was just thinking you could toast some coconut for some depth…


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## David Violante

Don’t mind us giving you all this work to do… LOL


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## FlamingoEmporium

winemaker81 said:


> I have no idea if it needs it, but I'd add pectic enzyme. If it doesn't need it, no harm done, and if it does? It saves a step.
> 
> Add acid blend (or tartaric), yeast nutrient, and powdered tannin.
> 
> Since I have NO idea what this is gonna taste like, add no other fruit, especially pineapple. Ferment dry and clear it. Bulk age for 3-4 months, then taste it and figure where to go from there.


I was wondering about the pectin enzyme and nutrient. ok. No pineapple. Straight coconut water it is. I was just looking for another gallon jug to transfer it to. I’m all out.

and yeah what I meant to say was I was trying to figure out if you can make a “drinkable“ wine from coconut water.


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## FlamingoEmporium

I can see it now, threads for years to come will mention the time some wacko on here tried to make coconut wine


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## FlamingoEmporium

I‘VE ALREADY GOT A LABEL FOR IT !


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## ChuckD

Big Dave’s lookin a little rough today


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## winemaker81

FlamingoEmporium said:


> I was wondering about the pectin enzyme and nutrient. ok. No pineapple. Straight coconut water it is. I was just looking for another gallon jug to transfer it to. I’m all out.


<eyes roll> GALLON JUG? Get a barrel (60 gallons, don't be a wuss!) and raid your neighbors' trees! We all know they are not using those coconuts and you need them!


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## FlamingoEmporium

winemaker81 said:


> <eyes roll> GALLON JUG? Get a barrel (60 gallons, don't be a wuss!) and raid your neighbors' trees! We all know they are not using those coconuts and you need them!


let’s see if one gallon is worth drinking. 

the swale in front of my house still smells from where I poured out 2 gallons of Agave wine my Son in Law tried to ferment. (No his name isn’t Dave)


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## BigDaveK

ChuckD said:


> Big Dave’s lookin a little rough today


Big Dave might not look rough every day but I FEEL rough EVERY day. If I wasn't retired I'd be telling work I'll be late...every day. In the words of my Hungarian grandmother - "Yoy yoy yoy!"


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> I can see it now, threads for years to come will mention the time some wacko on here tried to make coconut wine


Or maybe you'll be in the Hall Of Fame! Worshiped! Idolized! Face on t-shirts!


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## BigDaveK

BTW, I'm jealous of your coconuts but very glad they don't grow in Ohio. I have more than enough tangents to keep me busy and dizzy!


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## FlamingoEmporium

BigDaveK said:


> BTW, I'm jealous of your coconuts but very glad they don't grow in Ohio. I have more than enough tangents to keep me busy and dizzy!


If I wouldn’t have to take out a second mortgage I would send a box full


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## joeswine

Try it !


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## FlamingoEmporium

OK 2 more 1 gallon jugs on the way. I’m resisting the urge to make 3 -6 gallons at a time. My house isn’t that big.

stay tuned for pictures this afternoon.


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## FlamingoEmporium

And we’re off !

Step one, gather your coconuts. Young coconuts full of water. The brown outside is frost burn from a month or so ago.




Then skillfully chop off their top so you can get the water out. 

a little over one gallon in the bucket.


Couple of small chunks of grass floating in there and a few little tiny pieces of husk that fell in. They will ferment out. . Enzyme and energizer are now stirred in.
Not sure if I should wait for 24 hours to pitch the yeast. Not too sure what the enzyme will be acting on in there. ill check the coconut water SG shortly and then add sugar.

10 -15 young coconuts required. Depends on how big you’re nuts are.


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## FlamingoEmporium

You remember when you were little and you’re friends dared you to do something ? Jump your bike off an ironing board ramp, shoot an arrow in the air and run, eat something weird, ? You know That feeling ?

in the back of my mind I hear my Mom saying…”if all your friends told you to make coconut wine does that mean you should do it ?”


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## FlamingoEmporium

2.25 lbs. sugar
SG 1.088


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## Raptor99

FlamingoEmporium said:


> OK 2 more 1 gallon jugs on the way. I’m resisting the urge to make 3 -6 gallons at a time. My house isn’t that big.
> 
> stay tuned for pictures this afternoon.



I've been reading your posts with interest: fresh pinapple, mango, and coconuts. I love mango! Very different from what grows in my neighborhood: berries, apples, peaches, pears. We make wine from what we have available to us.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Raptor99 said:


> We make wine from what we have available to us.


that’s the whole idea. If I lived in Northern California I would Probably make wine out of grapes. If I lived in Alaska, I would have to make, Snow wine.


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## FlamingoEmporium

I guess this is fermentation.


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## FlamingoEmporium

OK. Now there doesn’t appear to be fermentation going on. 
less than 15 hours later.

now what.?


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## winemaker81

FlamingoEmporium said:


> OK. Now there doesn’t appear to be fermentation going on.
> less than 15 hours later.
> 
> now what.?


Exercise patience. And use your hydrometer to judge progress. If the SG is dropping, there is activity.

Your yeast may be shy and not want to reproduce in front of you


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## FlamingoEmporium

1.082
I put some Barry White on pandora.
_bow chickee wow wow _


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## FlamingoEmporium

Look what I found in the freezer.




3 pounds of Passion Fruit


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## FlamingoEmporium

SG 1.072 today. I’ll take it.
sharp smell when sniffing bucket, but not in glass.
It tasted wonderful. Sweet of course, since still a lot of sugar not eaten, but coconuty and yummy.
I'm hoping……

color is now a cloudy semi clear. It’s actually a nice color.

I had to go back for a second sip.

if this works out I WILL be asking friends for coconuts.


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## ChuckD

FlamingoEmporium said:


> View attachment 86174
> SG 1.072 today. I’ll take it.
> sharp smell when sniffing bucket, but not in glass.
> It tasted wonderful. Sweet of course, since still a lot of sugar not eaten, but coconuty and yummy.
> I'm hoping……
> 
> color is now a cloudy semi clear. It’s actually a nice color.
> 
> I had to go back for a second sip.
> 
> if this works out I WILL be asking friends for coconuts.


That looks like a wonderful base for all your other tropical goodies


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## FlamingoEmporium

ChuckD said:


> That looks like a wonderful base for all your other tropical goodies


Indeed. Even if it finishes with a lower ABV should be great to backsweeten or blend


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## David Violante

We’re going to have to visit!


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## FlamingoEmporium

Fermentation not as “shy” today. Got a nice set of bubbles on top.
“Go coconut Go” 
SG reading later today.


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## FlamingoEmporium

OK. This is really getting interesting. It’s been bubbling nicely all day today so I just let it be.
took an SG reading tonight, and of course I HAD to taste it.
1.060
oh my goodness. The taste ! It was almost like a coconut soda at this point. Very flavorful and almost carbonated. This is shaping up to be a keeper. Color similar to yesterday. Maybe just a little milkier, not much. Kind of opaque.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Fermentation makes me happy ! 


1.052 Today


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## FlamingoEmporium

1.036 tonight. 

tastes a little different now. Not bad, just different. More like mature coconut water than young coconut water. I’m wondering if coconut water ferments a little in older mature fruit on the tree ? 
managed to spill a little on the floor. Sticky stuff. Guess who will be mopping the kitchen tomorrow.


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## BigDaveK

I'm following your experiment with great interest!!

I'm pretty sure the coconuts on the tree would need oxygen and yeast to ferment. Whack with your machete or drill a couple holes, protect from bugs, see what Mother Nature does. The drops from my fruit trees are a favorite with yellow jackets, raccoons, and deer. The entire area smells "boozy".


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## Rice_Guy

On crops like corn the grains go through milk stage into dough and then dehydrate making dent corn. very likely that coco nut also does this sequence.
Occasionally the lab would run something as tissue culture on plant material. For this the exterior would be sanitized, cut open with sterile knives and then “collected” . ,,, The interior of plants as well as animals is assumed to be sterile. If there are microbes in the tissue it is diseased.


FlamingoEmporium said:


> 1.036 tonight. , , tastes a little different now. Not bad, just different. More like mature coconut water than young coconut water. I’m wondering if coconut water ferments a little in older mature fruit on the tree ?


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## FlamingoEmporium

Rice_Guy said:


> On crops like corn the grains go through milk stage into dough and then dehydrate making dent corn. very likely that coco nut also does this sequence.
> Occasionally the lab would run something as tissue culture on plant material. For this the exterior would be sanitized, cut open with sterile knives and then “collected” . ,,, The interior of plants as well as animals is assumed to be sterile. If there are microbes in the tissue it is diseased.


Wow. Just before your post I found a scientific paper long and very scientific paper about that - Development and evaluation of a fermented coconut water beverage with potential health benefits - and it mentioned washing and sterilizing the nut etc. the end take is fermented coconut water can be good for you.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Here’s another article about how people prepare it like kombucha or kefir or whatever. It says it gets a vinegary taste after you see the fermenting bubbles as it uses the natural sugars up. I’m worried I might get coconut vinegar, but I have the advantage that I added sugar to it and I can hopefully backsweeten any nasty taste down Benefits Of Coconut Water + How To Ferment It


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## FlamingoEmporium

Hers an article that describes what I tasted 2 days ago. “
During this time, the bacteria in the culture eat the sugars in the water, grow beneficial probiotics and create a bubbly, tangy drink with far less sweetness than the original coconut water and many more benefits, mainly probiotics. Fermented coconut water is just teeming with beneficial microbes.

A dry champagne spritzer!”

Dave,it’s from the make sauerkraut website !








Fermented Coconut Water [The Completer Guide]


Discover the bonus benefits behind fermented coconut water. Dead simple, 2-step, 2-ingredient method. Easier to make than Kombucha.




www.makesauerkraut.com


----------



## FlamingoEmporium

Still not any good information on coconut water wine.  I might be making vinegar, or …..

all those healthy kombucha people out there. Seems like it’s like Gatorade slightly fermented and chilled. I’m not gonna join gatorademakers forum.


----------



## FlamingoEmporium

I was going to bottle the mango wine batch this weekend so I had some room for coconut in secondary, and hopefully start a new batch of something.But the Fed ex delivery that was supposed to happen today is going back to label peelers. Fed ex says “ delivery exception. oops something apparently broke and Box is going all the way back. I would have been happy to take what was still OK and wait for replacements. No bottles no yeast etc etc. arrrgggh ! 

good news is I found a local B&M wine supplies about 8 miles away. Prices are a little higher but without shipping it’s about the same. If you don’t consider nearly $5.00 gas.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Color a little more toward the light yellow side. 
SG 1.030
now the taste….

still a decent taste. I sipped and tried to think what the tang was since it seemed familiar.

then I remembered a few nights ago when I was drinking a dark and stormy. It tastes a bit like ginger beer now !


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Dave,it’s from the make sauerkraut website !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fermented Coconut Water [The Completer Guide]
> 
> 
> Discover the bonus benefits behind fermented coconut water. Dead simple, 2-step, 2-ingredient method. Easier to make than Kombucha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.makesauerkraut.com


Yes!
Found her wonderful site about 10 years ago when I first started making sauerkraut. My red cabbage kraut started last week is just about done. The great thing about fermented foods is that your patience is measured in days rather than months or years.


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> I was going to bottle the mango wine batch this weekend so I had some room for coconut in secondary, and hopefully start a new batch of something.But the Fed ex delivery that was supposed to happen today is going back to label peelers. Fed ex says “ delivery exception. oops something apparently broke and Box is going all the way back. I would have been happy to take what was still OK and wait for replacements. No bottles no yeast etc etc. arrrgggh !
> 
> good news is I found a local B&M wine supplies about 8 miles away. Prices are a little higher but without shipping it’s about the same. If you don’t consider nearly $5.00 gas.


I don't know what's going on with FedEx. I'll get "on truck for delivery" messages one day, and then "operational delay" for 2 or 3. I feel your pain.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Had my daughter taste the ferment this morning. She did not agree about ginger beer flavor. She did not say yuck though. That’s promising.


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## FlamingoEmporium

This afternoon SG 1.020

have a nasty toothache - getting root canal on Monday. 

have to see how I feel. Monday might be move to secondary day

tooth currently getting an alcohol bath with coffee rum


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## winemaker81

FlamingoEmporium said:


> have a nasty toothache - getting root canal on Monday.


Sorry to hear it! Been there twice. You'll feel better when it's over. [The worst part is holding your mouth open for 2 hours.]

Take ibuprofen (or your favorite pain killer) with you and take it immediately afterward. I found that the faster it was in me, the faster the pain relief.


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> This afternoon SG 1.020
> 
> have a nasty toothache - getting root canal on Monday.
> 
> have to see how I feel. Monday might be move to secondary day
> 
> tooth currently getting an alcohol bath with coffee rum



The old remedies are very often the best remedies.


----------



## FlamingoEmporium

Today 1.013
tasted a little sharper. Or maybe that’s all the ibuprofen I’ve been eating.

what do you experts think ? Should I move to secondary ?
there’s really nothing to eat in there except yeast. It’s been 8 full days. Although SG still dropping a little should it remain exposed to the air ?


----------



## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Today 1.013
> tasted a little sharper. Or maybe that’s all the ibuprofen I’ve been eating.
> 
> what do you experts think ? Should I move to secondary ?
> there’s really nothing to eat in there except yeast. It’s been 8 full days. Although SG still dropping a little should it remain exposed to the air ?



I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that there aren't a boatload of opinions concerning SG and moving to secondary. Where is everybody?

Personally, if I think there's going to be a lot of gross lees I might delay. But generally, if it's in the ballpark of 1.0ish I go for it.


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## David Violante

No expert here but I’ll share my opinion from limited experience… if you’re SG is that low and you’re concerned about oxygen issues, transfer to a carboy with an airlock. Off gassing of CO2 will fill the headspace and disperse out the lock, and your yeast can keep doing their thing until they’re done. You’re probably past the potential volcano stage so moving to a carboy won’t be life threatening.

As far as lees goes, moving off what you have is ok to do, and any more that are created aren’t a problem, just rack again. You don’t have solid fruit in there so there probably aren’t any gross lees. You have several months anyway with them from what I understand. Then you’re left with fine lees. You could delestage, there’s a whole posting on that. Or, when it’s completely done (no SG movement for several days) rack again.

OR… if you have the container space, rack to two different carboys, one that contains fine lees and do delestage, and one that does not. Compare the tastes of the two as they progress and see what you like.

You could also airlock it and wait until you’re off the ibuprofen.… LOL


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## FlamingoEmporium

I’ve sampled from the bottom of the bucket, or close to it and there weren’t gross lees. Really no lees to speak of. 

I’m probably going to move it to secondary later today. SG should be even a little lower.


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## FlamingoEmporium

David Violante said:


> You could delestage, there’s a whole posting on that.



still searching for the delestage thread.
found one. Basically sounds like battonage. Going back to look 
sounds like stuff on bottom gets added back on top.


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## David Violante

Good Lord my French isn’t what it used to be. Yes…. battonage. Delestage is removing the seeds. I better look that up too now…


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## FlamingoEmporium

Well there you are. Under bubbler now.
SG 1.006
Sorry I didn’t taste this time.
if this doesn’t clear much when fermentation stops, I won’t be totally disappointed. This kind of looks like “coconut wine”




Here is what was in the bottom. Looks like all yeast.


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## FlamingoEmporium

And Filtering the mango batch that i lightly backsweetened and will cold crash it before bottling. 0.994


Root canal tomorrow


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Root canal tomorrow



Good luck, Buckaroo!


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## FlamingoEmporium

BigDaveK said:


> Good luck, Buckaroo!


I almost took the pliers to it myself Friday night.


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## FlamingoEmporium

There‘s an empty space where the fermentation bucket should be. This is habit forming. 
I want to make a 3 Gallon batch of mango or mango strawberry. Alas not enough carboys again…. I saw a 3 gallon one at the local b&m brew store for a fair price. 2 weeks to Soc. Sec. Check day.


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> I almost took the pliers to it myself Friday night.


I'm really sorry. I very VERY seriously thought of doing that, too. If I had 1 drink under my belt I probably would have.


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> There‘s an empty space where the fermentation bucket should be. This is habit forming.
> I want to make a 3 Gallon batch of mango or mango strawberry. Alas not enough carboys again…. I saw a 3 gallon one at the local b&m brew store for a fair price. 2 weeks to Soc. Sec. Check day.


I know! I have 2 brew pads which I think I need this time of year so I force myself to only have 2 active fermentations at a time. It's been a challenge to not buy a third one.

Oh, and mango strawberry sounds really good!


----------



## FlamingoEmporium

BigDaveK said:


> Oh, and mango strawberry sounds really good!



yeah I’ve got pounds of frozen mango in the freezer and strawberry season is probably ending here in Florida. I‘ll have to look for a sale. Or maybe just frozen store strawberries.


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## winemaker81

Not that it matters now, but moving the wine to secondary storage is fine. Folks normally do so any time the SG is below 1.020, and occasionally higher. You can safely ignore it now for a couple of week, then check the SG. For juice I don't believe the racking point makes much difference, except that the yeast multiplies faster in an open container with O2. For grapes or fruit where extended contact allows more time for extraction from the fruit, lower SG is better.



BigDaveK said:


> I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that there aren't a boatload of opinions concerning SG and moving to secondary. Where is everybody?


I was at the beach, enjoying the sights and sounds!



David Violante said:


> You don’t have solid fruit in there so there probably aren’t any gross lees.


That may not be correct. Anything that drops that isn't yeast hulls is gross lees. Even though the coconut water looks mostly clear, there's "stuff" in it. From the pictures there's not much there and it probably doesn't matter, but as a group we're still uncertain about determining exactly the visual difference between gross and fine lees, so I'm mentioning this.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Yeah with the loquat wine, it was easy to tell when 90 % of the fruit was “eaten” up. Except for a few bits of grass and tiny pieces of husk, the coconut water didn’t have visible signs. If I had a microscope and knew what spent yeast looked like I would have examined what little was in the bottom.

it must be similar when you use squeezed juice only.

im not gonna get in the gross vs fine lees battle at this stage in my career, but in observation the lees in the coconut bucket were not really wanting to get sucked up in transfer. They weren’t wispy and didn’t try to ”follow” the wine through the siphon.


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## David Violante

winemaker81 said:


> That may not be correct. Anything that drops that isn't yeast hulls is gross lees. Even though the coconut water looks mostly clear, there's "stuff" in it. From the pictures there's not much there and it probably doesn't matter, but as a group we're still uncertain about determining exactly the visual difference between gross and fine lees, so I'm mentioning this.


This is a good point, I should have highlighted the "probably". That discussion about gross and fine lees is a good one. I have a feeling it's going to come down to just what you indicated Bryan, the difference in determining if the lees are yeast hulls or not.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Right side of my head is numb. 90% of root canal is done. Have to go back in 3 weeks (oh joy). infection cleaned out medicine injected where root used to be. Three weeks later take out medicine and fill hole. Only took an hour or so and $1,215.   there’s goes my ph tester and new carboy. 

i need to make wine now to forget my problems


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## David Violante

Holy moly I hope you feel better soon. Take it easy down there. This will pass in no time.


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## FlamingoEmporium

SG in secondary fairly steady went from 1.004 to 1.002
color still cloudy white. I’m gonna put it in the back and let it do what it wants to for a while.

this could be a candidate for blending with another wine. I think coconut probably goes well with lots of different fruit wines.


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## winemaker81

FlamingoEmporium said:


> this could be a candidate for blending with another wine.


Bottle a few without blending. It will be useful to see how the wine develops as it ages.

My 2020 reds are a Merlot heavy blend (with Cab Sauv, Cab Franc, Malbec, Petit Verdot) and Merlot/Zinfandel blend with listed Bordeaux grapes). I bottled a gallon each of the Merlot, Zinfandel, sub-blend (Cab Sauv, Cab Franc, Malbec, Petit Verdot), and each of the major blends that were not barrel aged. The plan is to taste test the 7 wines annually for the next 5 years, starting next fall. I have NO idea what the result will be, which is a good reason for doing it.


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## FlamingoEmporium

winemaker81 said:


> Bottle a few without blending. It will be useful to see how the wine develops as it ages.


I plan on bottling MOST without blending. If it continues to develop as it has it’s gonna be a real conversation piece.

im thinking adding SOME coconut to other wines to add a small hint of coconut.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Light coating of white fine lees on the bottom of the carboy. Something is getting pulled out. Hope it clears a little.


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## FlamingoEmporium

SG 1.000 now. Unique taste. Not really a white wine or fruit wine taste. Kind of jumps on the tongue. Hard to describe. In its present state I would serve as an after dinner glass. It’s gonna sit for a while and age.
I’ve got a bunch of small coconuts that need to get picked before the stem falls off the tree. Been really hot and dry so they haven’t gotten really fat yet. 

I will definitely make another batch, might have to freeze the water from those ready now and add some others later. maybe next batch gets some lime juice.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Degassed it tonight and added some pectic enzyme to see if it clears a little.
it was pretty fizzy.
SG .998

only 3 weeks in. Seemed longer.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Not too sure what To make of this one. Not clearing, but I think that’s a minor issue since it “looks” like a coconut wine as is.

The taste ? …. I thought it maybe tasted a little fizzy the last time. Tonight I was tasting my other bulk aging wines and did the coconut last.

initial impression…. Kind of tasted mildly salty maybe. But a good flavor.

just don’t know what to make of it. No idea what age will do for it.
going To have to bring in my daughter and son in law for Opinions.
i very very Lightly backsweetened the small 750 ml bottle to see what effect that might have. It’s still a Young product at this Point.


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## Jovimaple

@FlamingoEmporium Is it coconutty at all?


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## FlamingoEmporium

Jovimaple said:


> @FlamingoEmporium Is it coconutty at all?


Hmmm. Hard to say because we drink coconut coffee with a squirt of coconut syrup every morning. So often what definitely tastes coconuts to others is not as obvious to me anymore. I have to say yes there is still a slight taste of coconut. There is a fruit type smell like my other wines but not necessarily coconut. definitely not a coconut odor like Malibu rum or coconut sun tan lotion

i went and tasted a sip, it is strong alcohol wise I think. I’m going to backsweeten just a bit more and bring in my outside tasters. I don’t think I will leave all of this dry. It could be pleasing as a sweeter wine.

but not as coconutty as you would expect. Early on it definitely had the flavor so I think Backsweetening will bring it out.


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## Jovimaple

My next wine will be a pineapple wine and I had planned to backsweeten with pina colada mix.

Just thinking about whether a coconut milk wine blended together with the pineapple wine would be better.

But to your point about coconut flavoring, maybe it's better if I stick with the original plan since the flavor that I am used to as coconut is what I think I want.


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## FlamingoEmporium

if I don’t wind up drinking it I can always cook with it.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Backsweetening definitely makes this a pleasant drinker. Not sweet but flavorful. 
now let’s see if it clears. In the meantime I‘ve got the small bottle to enjoy.


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## BigDaveK

I was curious, did some reading. Coconut water actually has some protein so it may not clear on it's own. It said bentonite would work. Huh, who knew?


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## FlamingoEmporium

BigDaveK said:


> I was curious, did some reading. Coconut water actually has some protein so it may not clear on it's own. It said bentonite would work. Huh, who knew?


How about a sparkoloid treatment ?


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> How about a sparkoloid treatment ?



Wow, when I started this hobby I had no idea the rabbit hole would be so big and bottomless...and that it connects to_ other_ rabbit holes!

Protein is positively charged and needs a negatively charged fining agent like bentonite and kieselsol. Sparkolloid is positively charged so wouldn't work.

I've read that some fining agents may affect taste, aroma, color and body. I prefer to go au naturale but sometimes you do what you gotta do.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Now I gotta be a scientist too ! ? Wow. Thanks. Very “positive” response.


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Now I gotta be a scientist too ! ? Wow. Thanks. Very “positive” response.


I'm just curious about things. I was the kid annoying my parents and teachers with "Why?" and "Because I said so!" didn't offer a satisfactory explanation. I would have used the internet but Al Gore hadn't invented it yet.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Well the root canal didn’t work. There were cracks in the tooth. Never went totally pain free. I get it pulled tomorrow. 

Need to go make some more wine.


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## FlamingoEmporium

.999 and not changing. Not dropping any lees apart from the fine white sediment it dropped a few weeks ago. I’m putting this in the fridge to drink over the next week to see if I die or not. I might get used to the cloudy look or I might just let the gallon batch sit for a few more months. Bentonite will be last ditch effort after that. 
it hasn’t really changed in 3 weeks 


It does have the look of coconut though


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## BigDaveK

Yes, personally I like the look. It just screams, "I'm a coconut wine!"
Enjoy drinking it. Let us know if you die...or not.

Bummer about the tooth. Sorry buckaroo.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Well the two smaller bottles may have turned. I had my son in law sate yesterday and he said it did have a slight vinegary taste first but a strong alcohol after taste.

i haven’t messed with the gallon under airlock yet. I’ll try that later this week. I’m not supposed to get alcohol on the big gaping hole where my tooth used to be.

im going to try a heavy backsweeten on the small bottle and drink it anyway.


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## BigDaveK

Keeping my fingers crossed for yuh!

I've intentionally made apple cider vinegar a few times and it needs lots of fresh air and usually takes a few weeks (at least).

Does it smell sour? Is it changing color?

Alcohol taste is good. Get another opinion. If the acetobacter have just started you could possibly salvage the wine by pasteurizing it. I think it's 160F for 15 minutes or 140F for 30 minutes, but don't quote me.


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## FlamingoEmporium

I could smell it a little, but not really taste the vinegary issue, but then again I have crappy taste. It’s definitely not changing color at all.

it won’t go to waste. If I don’t make something else with it I will be drinking it because I think it’s interesting.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Update time.

checked the gallon of coconut. 
SG 0.999
in test glass I could smell the same vinegary type smell but not really taste it. Not terrible.
back in the closet that gallon goes. 

the two small bottles in the fridge… full bottle, SG 1.06. This was backsweetened about a week to 2 weeks ago now. Didnt have quite as strong a smell. Didn’t taste bad at all. 
the smaller bottle in fridge… SG 1.04. This must not have had quite as much sweetening. Taste was OK, just a little less desirable than the larger bottle.

I’m probably going to sweeten the larger bottle just a little more and see what happens.


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## joeswine

Why not extra? With a white wine base


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## FlamingoEmporium

joeswine said:


> Why not extra? With a white wine base


I’m thinking I might eventually blend with something else


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## FlamingoEmporium

I put over i gallon of coconut water in the freezer today.

i also got a quart bag full of coconut “jelly” and used it to make some pudding.

next time I make coconut water wine I will use a bunch of The “jelly” since it will give the yeast something a little more substantial to feast on.


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## BigDaveK

Okay, I'll ask - what do you mean by coconut "jelly"?


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## FlamingoEmporium

BigDaveK said:


> Okay, I'll ask - what do you mean by coconut "jelly"?


I kept waiting for somebody to ask.

if you ever had a coconut chances are you broke it open and there was hard white coconut inside. Hard to get out often and usually come out with hard bitter brown side from the shell.

people from many islands call the pulp inside a young coconut “jelly” because that is its consistency.

_“Many people have never heard of coconut “jelly” meat and it’s sometimes referred to as “coconut gel.” Coconut jelly is the meat of coconuts harvested while they’re young, green, and immature.

At that stage of their growth, coconuts contain a white flesh that resembles jelly. If left to mature, coconut jelly ripens into the firm, white flesh most people are familiar with for cooking and baking. The following are just some of the benefits of eating coconut jelly.”_

It’s very yummy kind of slimy like 








Coconut jelly [Video] in 2022 | Coconut jelly, Food, Desserts


May 5, 2022 - This Pin was discovered by Flamingo Emporium. Discover (and save!) your own Pins on Pinterest




pin.it


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## BigDaveK

That's really interesting! I had no idea!
Does it taste like coconut?


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## FlamingoEmporium

BigDaveK said:


> That's really interesting! I had no idea!
> Does it taste like coconut?


A little bit. Much sweeter.


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## FlamingoEmporium

Time to call this one a non success. Still tastes vinegary. I backsweetenEd to 1.010. Tastes like sweet vinegary coconut wine now. Gonna sit for a few weeks. Then if it doesn’t taste like something I can use, I’ll water the plants with it or utilize it some other way.


----------



## BernardSmith

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Time to call this one a non success. Still tastes vinegary. I backsweetenEd to 1.010. Tastes like sweet vinegary coconut wine now. Gonna sit for a few weeks. Then if it doesn’t taste like something I can use, I’ll water the plants with it or utilize it some other way.


That would be a shame. You might find a large vessel to pour the wine into and expose it to the air. Don't keep it in your wine room, but in your kitchen or some other place far enough away from your wines. Acetic bacteria love alcohol in an aerobic environment and they will happily transform your wine into vinegar. You might help them in two ways. The first is to dilute the wine a little so that the ABV is as strong as a strong cider or beer (about 6 -9% ABV) . They can thrive in higher ABV environments but it can take longer. The second way to help them is to find some living vinegar and add some to this wine. In any event, after a few weeks or months, a mother will form - the mother being a mat of microbial matter which will float atop your wine/vinegar and which you can thereafter use to make batches of vinegar from other wines.


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## FlamingoEmporium

BernardSmith said:


> That would be a shame. You might find a large vessel to pour the wine into and expose it to the air. Don't keep it in your wine room, but in your kitchen or some other place far enough away from your wines. Acetic bacteria love alcohol in an aerobic environment and they will happily transform your wine into vinegar. You might help them in two ways. The first is to dilute the wine a little so that the ABV is as strong as a strong cider or beer (about 6 -9% ABV) . They can thrive in higher ABV environments but it can take longer. The second way to help them is to find some living vinegar and add some to this wine. In any event, after a few weeks or months, a mother will form - the mother being a mat of microbial matter which will float atop your wine/vinegar and which you can thereafter use to make batches of vinegar from other wines.


Hey Bernard, I just spent 10 days in Galway.


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## BigDaveK

FlamingoEmporium said:


> Time to call this one a non success. Still tastes vinegary. I backsweetenEd to 1.010. Tastes like sweet vinegary coconut wine now. Gonna sit for a few weeks. Then if it doesn’t taste like something I can use, I’ll water the plants with it or utilize it some other way.


Bummer.
It may be a "non success" but it's an opportunity to play. Put some in a glass and add some acid. It might help....or you might have acidic vinegary coconut wine.

Oh, it might not be good for plants.


----------

