# Diagonal and horizontal training systems



## blumentopferde (Feb 19, 2013)

Hello!
I'm about to plan the expansion of my small wineyard and got stuck on training systems:

I was considering using a horizontal or sloped training system for my vines (such as T, V, or simply / -shape), as they seem to have a lot of benefits (as long as I don't want to use heavy machinery in the wineyard):
- Higher incident solar radiation
- Less shadow on other wines, thus more narrow rows and higher yields possible
- ergonomic height possible without reduced leaf area

But there are also some doubts coming up:
I live in a rather cool and rainy wine growing area (Austria, central Europe) and I want to plan viniferas, reds and whites. Hailstorms and Peronospora are a big topic. Intuitively I think that such training systems could fit very well into this framework, but practically these training systems are inexistant in the northern european wine producing countries, while one would find them more often in hot and dry wine growing areas.

So wonder if there is any good reason for this:
- Do they cast too much shadow on the grapes?
- Is the risk to lose the crop on hailstorms higher?
- Is the risk of fungal infections higher?

Any experiences, any thoughts?


----------



## Brew and Wine Supply (Feb 20, 2013)

what types of grapes do you have / are planning on planting? that will make a difference. Some do better with a single wire system other with a two wire system and others with the Geneva curtain (T). Grapes don't care if they are planted N/S or E/W ( light ), but keep in mind of the prevailing winds in the summer (helps with fungal). Planting with the wind will get more air flow down the rows, planting cross the wine will block it. And the slope of the ground (erosion) by planting across the slope will slow erosion where planting the rows up and down can promote it. A lot also depends on how steep the ground is where you are planting, if its fairly flat again it doesn't matter. When it comes to hail, there's not a lot that can be done.
Looking at local vineyards can help or do some research on vineyards in Washing state where it is cool and wet.
Some more info can help.


----------



## grapeman (Feb 20, 2013)

In your case, I would probably stick to a single wire vertical shoot positioned system for a number of reasons. Being vinifera vines you want to reduce the crop load to get maximum quality. I leads to an orderly growth habit and keeps the vines more exposed to air movement and sunlight- both helping reduce incidence of disease. The next thing would be hail protection. There is a side netting system now that provides some protection from hail . It is like a normal side netting, but has a heavier smaller oppening size. The single fruiting zone also helps keep the clusters exposed a bit better than even a Lyre system (V).


----------



## blumentopferde (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks for your replies!



Brew and Wine Supply said:


> what types of grapes do you have / are planning on planting? that will make a difference. Some do better with a single wire system other with a two wire system and others with the Geneva curtain (T).


Mainly Gewurztraminer and Pinot Noir. Shatter is an issue of Gewürztraminer, Botrytis (and other fungal infections) the main issue of Pinot Noir.



> Grapes don't care if they are planted N/S or E/W ( light ), but keep in mind of the prevailing winds in the summer (helps with fungal). Planting with the wind will get more air flow down the rows, planting cross the wine will block it. And the slope of the ground (erosion) by planting across the slope will slow erosion where planting the rows up and down can promote it. A lot also depends on how steep the ground is where you are planting, if its fairly flat again it doesn't matter.


Thanks for the hint! I really totally forgot about the wind directions! Winds should come mainly from SSW and NNO.
The ground is sloped towards WSW, so i guess that it would be the best to keep the rows in line with the slope. The inclination is about 13° / 23%.


> When it comes to hail, there's not a lot that can be done.


I thought that maybe if you choose a system with a lot of leaves above the grapes, you might save them from harm.


> Looking at local vineyards can help or do some research on vineyards in Washing state where it is cool and wet.
> Some more info can help.


Well, in Austria you can only find the vertical shoot positioned system (Guyot) with 2 single-wires + 2, sometimes 3 double wires. 



grapeman said:


> In your case, I would probably stick to a single wire vertical shoot positioned system for a number of reasons. Being vinifera vines you want to reduce the crop load to get maximum quality. I leads to an orderly growth habit and keeps the vines more exposed to air movement and sunlight- both helping reduce incidence of disease. The next thing would be hail protection. There is a side netting system now that provides some protection from hail . It is like a normal side netting, but has a heavier smaller oppening size. The single fruiting zone also helps keep the clusters exposed a bit better than even a Lyre system (V).


Well, that would be the common way. Definitely working out fine and well-proven. 

But what do you think about these variations?
#1





By tilting the trellis towards the sun, one might get a much better sun exposure on the leaves. If oriented right, the sun exposure on the grapes would not get worse, but the sun would mainly come from one direction instead of two.

#2




Here's also a slight tilt, so the incident solar radiation on the leaves will be slightly higher at the same distance between the rows. Also the greenery will be less dense due to the splitting of the shoots.
But the leaves will probably take more time to dry and the grapes would see a bit less sun.

And thanks for the hint with the nets, I think that would be a worthy investment!


----------



## grapeman (Feb 22, 2013)

I won't say anything against the tilted system. I have even taken it a step further and made a GDC using the slanted approach. They work well, but if you are in Europe, using vinifera and worried about fungal pressure I would not go with the double wire GDC. The last trellis system looks interesting. Be sure to let us know what you use and how well it works.


----------



## blumentopferde (Feb 22, 2013)

I will most likely use a tilted system. I've been playing around with simulation software (yes, I'm a bit of a freak :> ) and the tilted variations give me the best results when it comes to area of leaves per area of land and incident solar radiation per area of leaves. 
Not much better because I have to choose higher than average row distances if I don't want to shade the grapes, but the results are still about 15-20% better than with a vertical system.
Most interestingly the orientation of vertical rows doesn't affect the results much. There's only 5% difference between the best and worst orientation!

I'll keep you updated!


----------

