# DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine



## dangerdave

*DangerDave’s Dragon Blood Wine*
My name is David C. Land (dangerdave). I am a firefighter from southern Ohio who started making wine in August 2011. Like most of you, I began slowly, but was soon bitten by the wine bug and started making many kits in my spare time. After gaining this valuable experience and understanding of the wine making process, I ventured out on my own. My very first homemade recipe was Lon DePoppe's original Skeeter Pee. I was amazed that anyone could make a good cheap wine so quickly. After varying degrees of success, I went about modifying Lon's recipe into a process that reflected both my own desires for my wines, and the processes I had come to understand. Here, I will impart the recipe I developed that has become popular among a diverse group of wine makers. It is specifically designed to make good wine cheaply and quickly while waiting for your kits to age. There are no secrets in wine making. You, my fellow wine makers, are more than welcome to use or modify this recipes or process for your own wine making pleasure. Enjoy!

*The recipe is formatted for a six (6) gallon batch. To make a larger or smaller batch, simply do the math. Doubling the batch to twelve gallons would require twice the listed ingredients, while making a three gallon batch would only take half.*

_*READ THROUGH THESE STEPS COMPLETELY BEFORE BEGINNING, TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO FINISH YOUR WINE.*_

_*Always make sure anything that touches your wine is both cleaned and sanitized, and record everything you do!*_

_*




*_
*　*
This is a sweet-tart fruity “blush” wine made from raspberries, blackberries, and blueberries with a lemon twist (if desired). It ferments quickly and clears fast. Batches of this wine have been cleared and bottled in less than two weeks (your experience may vary).
* Special notes, including cautions and variations appear in _italics_.


*Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon (or larger) primary, add---in this order:*

1 bottle (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _More or less lemon juice can be added to your taste, (i.e., if you want to reduce the acid level use less lemon juice). The acid added here will help balance the final wine. Substitutes include any other kind of citrus juice (orange, lime, etc.), or use no citrus at all for a very soft, supple blush._
Water to about four gallons
20 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG of around 1.075 after filling to 6 gallons below. This will give you a finished alcohol by volume of about 10%-11%): _Add more/less sugar for high/lower desired final ABV. Stir sugar until completely dissolved._
1 tsp. tannin (stir)
3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well
Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) _Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!_
6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--availablein most grocery store freezer sections), frozen then thawed, in a fine mesh nylon bag (tied shut), placed in primary (add any extra juice from the fruit as well): _Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme. You may also toss the fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and further racking. Dozens of variations on this recipe have been created by simply substituting different or combinations of different fruit._
Cover primary: _Do not snap down the lid or add an airlock. Cover the lid with a cloth or towel._
Place brew belt (if desired): _Keep temp in 68F-80F range. A higher temp will result in a faster fermentation, and a sharper tasting, more colorful wine. A lower temp will produce a paler blush with more fruity aroma and a smoother taste._
Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...
*Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:*


1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (follow yeast manufacturer’s directions): _Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains also work well. Experiment!_
Stir Primary Vigorously!
*Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:*


Uncover primary
Check and record temperature
Check and record specific gravity
Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter and remove fruit pack (The Presser Method): _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket or bowl._
Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must, suspend the yeast, and drive off CO2.._
Replace fruit pack in primary
Cover primary
*Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000, do the following:*

Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter---remove fruit pack: Discard fruit. Note: _When the specific gravity (SG) has fallen below 1.000, and the fruit bag has been removed, discontinue stirring daily but check the SG and temp daily as before. Proceed from here only when the wine’s SG has stabilized below 1.000. A stable SG means that the SG for three consecutive days reveals no change in the SG._
Uncover primary
Rack (siphon or drain) the wine into a cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy, leaving the gross lees (the stuff in the bottom of the primary) undisturbed.
Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (dissolved in half cup cool water) and stir
Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (dissolved in half cup cool water) and stir
Degas wine very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough! Gas in the wine will prevent it from clearing quickly._
Add Sparkolloid* (or other clearing agent) per package directions (stir for 2 minutes): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered (boiled) for about 5-10 minutes. Add hot mixture directly to carboy and stir._
If the carboy is not full, add enough cool water to bring the level within two inches of the top opening: _Adding a like wine rather than water is preferred. A cheap white zinfandel will work well._
Add a bung and airlock (filled half way with sulfite solution)
Allow to clear undisturbed for no less than 1 week.
*Step 5: When wine is clear:*


Carefully rack off one gallon of wine into a cleaned and sanitized container, and set aside.
Carefully rack the remainder of the wine off of the lees into a cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy.
Add 2-6 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely dissolved): _This is where your personal taste comes in. Different people like different levels of sweetness in their wine. My DB is made with ¾ of a cup of sugar per gallon. Remember! The sugars will blend with the lemon and berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!_
If carboy is not full, top up within two inches of top of carboy opening with some of the spare gallon of wine
Replace bung and airlock
Allow wine to sit quietly for another week.
*Step 6: If the wine is completely clear:*


Filter if desired
Bottle in clear bottles (because it's beautiful)
Note: _Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!_
Enjoy! _This wine is great right from the start! It will, however, improve over time in the bottle. The first few weeks brings a noticeable improvement as the flavors blend and meld, while months will make it smooth and delightful. Be warned, though, it will go quickly. So, get some more going, fast!_
*SO MANY VARIATIONS!*
Any kind of fruit you can imagine may be substituted for the triple berries in the above recipe. Use the exact same procedure, just use different fruit in the bag. I personally have made blueberry, blackberry, strawberry, raspberry, and a delightful tropical blend using pineapple/mango/peach/strawberry. Other wine makers have had success with a quad-berry blend (blueberry/blackberry/raspberry/strawberry), a tropical blend using pineapple juice instead of lemon, and even cherry-lime (with lime juice). Fruit purees and fruit wine bases abound on the market. Try oak and/or raisins in the primary or secondary. The list of possibilities is endless. Use your imagination. Pick your favorite fruit, and make a Dragon Blood version of your own. Try raisins, spices, oak, or extracts. Give it a catchy name, and make this recipe yours!

*A NOTE ON THE “PRESSER METHOD”*
I developed this method of wine making simply out of necessity. My desire was to make country fruit wine, but I lacked good available juice, and I do not own a press. The solution was to add the fruit to the primary in a bag of some sort. I use fine mesh nylon bags sold by most wine supply vendors. A cheaper disposable substitute is knee-high lady’s nylon stockings. While the fruit is in the primary---in the bag---simply squeeze the bag each day and stir the juices into the must, replacing the bag afterwards. Needless to say, make sure your hands are clean when doing this. When the wine is dry, remove the bag and discard the fruit. This method slowly introduces the juice into the must during fermentation rather than all at the beginning. This also gives the skins of the fruit extended contact with the fruit pectin and yeast, elevating the flavors to a remarkable level in a very short time.

*V. A NOTE FROM THE AUTHOR*
This knowledge is nothing new. I have built my methods and recipes from the stones quarried by others. The wine making community is a wealth of information and a multitude of wonderful people. They are your greatest resource. I am more than willing to help anyone who asks. If I don’t know something, I will point you in the right direction. You may seek me out in the winemakingtalk.com forums (dangerdave), or email me at [email protected], and we’ll talk about making some good wine!

David C Land

Here is the file in pfd format for your convenience (below)...　 

View attachment DangerDaves_Dragon_Blood_Wine.pdf


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## Pumpkinman

Nice post Dave!


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## seth8530

Nice write up. BTW, your PDF looks nice.


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## jamesngalveston

Thanks Dave...


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## WVMountaineerJack

NIce job on the writeup DD. I never knew all those years we have been squeezing the fruit bag that we were using the Presser Method. We called it the Squeezer method previously. YOu may want to make that correction in your instructions, the Squeezer and not the Presser, to acknowledge the many winemakers who used it before, nobody knows who invented the Squeezer method but I think they must have been in your same situation, bag of fruit, how to get the juice out, hey lets squeeze it a little, and 100 years ago (no known archaeological evidence since they always drank the evidence) someone up in the hill country came up with a new method after putting a lot of hard work and thought into how to get that juice out of the bag. Great minds think alike! As a firefighter have you guys made a chile pepper DB yet, to put some fire into DB, that might be real popular during chili night, WVMJ


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## jamesngalveston

dang, i just thought it was grab bag and squish the hell out of it..
its called the squisher method....lol


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## dangerdave

Call it what you will. I started this thread upon request, to centralize the interest in this recipe---not to debate who invented the wheel.


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## WVMountaineerJack

We cant forget Dr. Torquea, who had to use Egyptian canvas pillowcases centuries ago, he twisted the bagged fruit gorilla style, maybe a bit to much as he often was quoted as complaining of his wines being cloudy. More modern winemakers dont go gorilla all the way, just pretty tight. I dont think back then though he claimed to have invented such a basic technique that had been used for many years before he even started making wine  WVMJ


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## bkisel

Reads like something easy enough for me to try should I decide on day to remove my "kit" training wheels.

What happens with that gallon that gets racked off (Ref: Bullet one of step 5) if not needed for topping off? Being as frugal as I am it would bother me to just dump that good stuff. Probably just have to try it once and then, if needed, adjust quantities accordingly.

Thanks...


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## jamesngalveston

use the gallon to use for topping off at rackings....


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## jamesngalveston

i send a link to texas brew to make a sticky...


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## vernsgal

Nice post Dave. I like the pdf attachment .


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## jamesngalveston

just opened a bottle of my tropical thats been sitting on the shelve for 3 mos....it is outstanding.....as every batch i have made, they do get better after about 2 months on the shelf....


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## reefman

Thanks Dave,
Starting my batch tomorrow. I'll have an empty carboy to fill. Bottling my Skeeter Pee tomorrow.


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## WVMountaineerJack

Another interesting fast and easy to make (havent tried it yet but got the yeast now) is BOMM, a fast mead made with ale yeast claiming to be ready and drinkable in a month, could also be added to the techniques of the impatient winemakers WVMJ


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## dangerdave

I encourage all DB fans to post their favorate version recipes here, so we can share our best with eachother!


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## Tess

Have the pdf saved on my computer. Makes it so much easier then having to try to find it on here, Thanks Dave and yes, everyone share!!


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## Tess

Here is your sticky guys. Congratulations Dave!


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## dangerdave

Thank you, Tess.


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## jamesngalveston

we do not have enough room for all my variants...LOL
got a sticky...huh


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## keahunter

Thanks Dave! I'm looking forward to trying this.


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## dangerdave

You are welcome, hunter.

Now, you can easily double your fruit in the primary (as James does) to increase fruit flavor. It takes a little longer, but what I prefer to do is steep some fruit in the cleared wine after it is finished. I'm currently doing a straight blueberry verion this way. I waited until the wine was clear, then I racked it to a carboy into which I had stuffed 3 lbs of blueberries. You can use dried, fresh, or frozen (thawed). I used frozen blueberries, thawed in the microwave, and stuffed (juice and all) down a large funnel into the carboy. I'll let them soak in there for about a month, really amping up the flavor!


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## jamesngalveston

I actually am going to do this and taste the difference...
I love the idea of fresh fruit in it....I 
am glad we got you a sticky....


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## dangerdave

Thank you for your effort, James. You are very appreciated.


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## buckhorn

A couple questions about your adding fruit to the cleared wine....
1. Do you bottle the fruit with the wine, or rack the wine back off this fruit before bottling?
2. Since the wine is already cleared and then you add the "stuffed" (read: slightly smashed) fruit back into it -- do you have any issues with the wine becoming cloudy again and needing to be re-cleared?


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## dangerdave

1. No. Do not bottle the fruit with the wine. I will usually stir the wine once a week, then let the fruit settle out, and rack off the wine at the end of four weeks.
2. The fruit is very good at settling out over the last week, but it may need additional time to clear. I have yet to have to re-dose with a clearing agent afterwards.

I usually filter my wines before bottling, so that takes care of any leftover sediment. You will lose some extra wine with this method, when you discard the fruit. If that goes against your liking, then squeeze all the wine out of the soaked fruit and add that back into the wine. It can be a longer, more drawn-out process, but worth the extra effort. I have tried this with several kinds of fruit. The firmer fruits seem to work better. Strawberries (darn them!) fall apart completely, and are hard to clear out afterwards. Blueberries and raisins hold together better. The triple berries added to the DB work great!

Another method for adding flavor would be to make an extract of the fruit. There are several methods for this. Essentially, you add a little water to the fruit, and simmer it in a pot until it is reduced by half. Strain and add the resulting extract to the wine. Do a search for extracts in this forum for more methods.


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## LoneStarLori

Congrats on your sticky Dave!


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## dangerdave

Thank you, Lori. We would appreciate your input here as well. All DB fans are welcome!

What kind are you making next?


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## Elmer

Opened and finished a bottle of my Citrus (cranberry, lime, lemon, OJ) last night.
It is not bad, but has an odd citrus blast after taste.

I dont know that I will hand it out to people or offer it up, but I will keep it and drink it, simply because I made it and have to empty the bottles.

It was an experiment and only for those who like to have thier taste buds truely tested while drinking!


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## GreginND

I LOVE all things blueberry so I did try doing a blue blood for my first foray into dragon blood/skeeter pee. I have to say it has far exceeded my expectations. I look forward to seeing how it ages. With 6 months on it now, it is really good. Thanks for your inspiration, Dave!


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## iVivid

DB No. 4 made this morning. My No. 5 is going to be blueberry and I can't wait!
Bottling No. 2 this afternoon. No. 3 in carboy waiting for No. 2 to get out of the way,
so I can degas No. 3 (which I only racked yesterday and is cleared halfway down by itself)!
Hmm. Is there a forum for DB addiction?


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## jamesngalveston

we are starting a db rehab soon....we just have to find some sober management persons...lol


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## Tess

James...Stated my 20 gallons this week of the original recipe!! Im been busy!!


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## jamesngalveston

good for you..hope all is well, notice you getting a little cold weather.


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## Tess

Yep had snow this morning!! gt to work in my wine room most of the day.


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## ckvchestnut

DB rehab lol! I have to say this could easily be an addiction!! My slightly modified version turned out outstanding!

Sad to say that after giving several bottles away and drinking the rest, we only have 1 bottle left which I hid to keep until next year! I had originally wanted to keep at least 6 bottles... *sigh* 

My slight deviations were as follows:
- 12lbs frozen fruit (strawberry, raspberry, blueberry, blackberry) 
- 40oz lemon juice
- 1lb sultana raisins
- 1 banana
- 1 large jug antioxia juice the one with pomegranate, elderberry etc (I added it just because I came up short on sugar)

This batch came out incredibly fruity and smooth and everyone who has tasted it, loved it! Now I'm going to have to make 2 batches at the same time this stuff doesn't stick around long enough! Apart from another immediate batch of the quad berry, I'm definitely trying tropical and blueberry!


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## jamesngalveston

yea...everyone tells me to just make db...peach blush ,and black berry port..seems to be everyones favorite....


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## ckvchestnut

Want to try those too! And interested in hearing how Dave's attempt at dragon port goes!


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## dangerdave

It's in the planning stage. I need some extra supplies before I get started. I'll post it up when I get it going. I'm excited about it, too!


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## jamesngalveston

this is a white peach port , in clearing stage, just about ready to bottle.


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## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> this is a white peach port , in clearing stage, just about ready to bottle.



That sure is purdy. Was that made from juice?

Gives me an idea for next year. I have a very young white peach tree that produced a lot of peaches this year. We didn't get any because a raccoon ate them while we were on vacation. But I'll camp out with my Red Ryder next summer to make sure WE get them.


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## boozehound

I just started a batch yesterday and pitched the yeast ec-1118. My temp is about 68 degrees. It's been 7 hrs shud I b seeing any activity yet? I have no heat rap so will that temp b ok?


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## jamesngalveston

lori, it was made from welches white grape peach frozen concentrate.


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## dangerdave

boozehound said:


> I just started a batch yesterday and pitched the yeast ec-1118. My temp is about 68 degrees. It's been 7 hrs shud I b seeing any activity yet? I have no heat rap so will that temp b ok?


 
Wrap it up real good with a heavy blanket or comforter to keep any heat produced by the yeast in there. I regularly ferment at that temp, so it should not be an issue. It will produce a smoother, fruitier wine than fermenting warmer.

Is it working today? Give it a full 48 hours before being concerned. Did you follow the recipe exactly?


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## boozehound

Thanks Dave. I checked this mourning and yeast is working. I've never done a yeast starter. I've just always pitched yeast in liquid and it's worked. My temp is about 69 degrees. I've followed directions exact. Smells great. I'll just keep going as directions say so I'll be stirring this adternoon.


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## jamesngalveston

I think you will be suprised at how good this wine is, for such a short time from ferment to bottle....
And remember you can make all kinds of different variations to your liking.


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## iVivid

My Blue Blood (Blueberry Dragons Blood) is bubbling.
I've made 23litres of this one. 

On to batch #6 soon. Oh dear, about that addict forum ;-)


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## jamesngalveston

ok..your in the db rehab class now...


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## iVivid

Can someone tell me what colour the Blueberry comes out?
Is it more blue than purple or red? (thinking labels here)...


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## boozehound

How many lbs of blueberrys did u use?


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## iVivid

3kg of blueberries which I think is 6.6lbs in America?
I can add more if need be.


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## boozehound

Is there away that determines how much different fruit to use in a batch or is it all personal preference?


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## iVivid

I've only done 5 batches, so sort of still following the recipe pretty closely.
Don't mess to much with what works! IMHO


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## jamesngalveston

boozehound...as a rule light color fruits have less flavor when combined with water.
peach,mango,banana,apple are not real flavorable.
strawberrys,blueberries,blackberries, etc have more flavor.

as a rule for my wine...i use about 6 lbs of each fruit.....
if using frozen concentrates i use 4 cans per gallon......
if using juice i use as little water as possible.


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## boozehound

Thanks James. I had a gal that gave me a bucket of raspberrys that wants me to make her wine with them. I was thinkn I'll just make a batch of DB with them. She wants it sweet so I think this will b perfect. I got them in freezer now and I'm pretty sure there's at least 6lbs.


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## dangerdave

iVivid said:


> Can someone tell me what colour the Blueberry comes out?
> Is it more blue than purple or red? (thinking labels here)...


 
Mine comes out red like the DB. I've got a batch clearing now that has some extra blueberries soaking in it. I think it will be darker, but still red.


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## iVivid

dangerdave said:


> Mine comes out red like the DB. I've got a batch clearing now that has some extra blueberries soaking in it. I think it will be darker, but still red.



What a shame; I had in my head it would come out more blue (bear in mind I've never used blueberries before - they're really expensive over here like $15 per kilogram), I splashed out for this batch and noticed when I squeezed the bags it was still (boring old) red... LOL I thought I'd use clear bottles and have this awesome blue coloured wine! Damn!

How many kg's/lbs of blueberries do you have in your batch Dave? I added some strawberries also just because I had them ;-)


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## jamesngalveston

vivid do they grow blackberries where you live...


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## jamesngalveston

to get blue wine.... start with a peach,mango,apple, are any white.
drop two drops of blue food coloring...will not impart the flavor are the taste.....thats how the wineries do it.


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## iVivid

jamesngalveston said:


> vivid do they grow blackberries where you live...



Yes; can do. I just bought eight raspberry plants, 4 each of two different varieties. Putting them in the ground today! We fight fungal diseases a bit here, it's pretty humid at times, but I'm putting them where I'll get some good airflow so hoping they will be alright.


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## dangerdave

iVivid said:


> How many kg's/lbs of blueberries do you have in your batch Dave? I added some strawberries also just because I had them ;-)


 
I have a blueberry farm right down the road from me, but have yet to buy blueberries from them. They charge too much for fresh. I get frozen blueberries from Walmart (3lbs bag or 1.3kg) for around $10.

I have made the blueberry version several times. It gets very smooth after about six month in the bottle. This time, I wanted to really amp up the blueberry flavor, so I used the standard 6lbs in the primary, but after it had cleared, I added another three pounds of berries to the carboy---along with some oak powder. It has been soaking there for a month, and has gotten much darker, and a whole lot fruitier. I'm about to rack it off the fruit and give it another sit before bottling next month. It should be a really good one for the coming spring.

After nearly running out last Spring, I have decided to produce DB on a six month advanced schedule. [Don't tell the folks in rehab!] So, I've got several versions going for next Spring already. There's the blueberry I mentioned, plus a tropical, a raspberry, a concord grape, and getting ready to start another 18 gallons of original. And i need to fit in some time and money to make that Dragon Port I'm dreaming of....

...and a few kits. I just need more money than I've got!


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## iVivid

Ooooooh, that sounds awesome... (thinking of adding some to secondary fermenter now).
At least your blueberries are a little cheaper too. 3kg cost me $42 but I'll get 30 bottles so all good!
I've also added a bottle of Barkers unsweetened blackcurrant juice to every batch of this so far.
(This is a 750ml bottle of pure squeezed blackcurrant juice - no additives or sugar).
I have some nice oak lying around waiting to be useful also! MMMMMmmmmm.
I'm making as much of this as budget allows as possible; so that I will not have to buy wine all winter, and trying to build up a big stash so that it will get aged more and more (my brother will come for Christmas and demolish most of it for sure!

I'm on batch 5 of your DB; unfortunately (not sure how) batch 1 is all gone  apart from 2 bottles (ageing).
Batch 2 stuffed up and had the sediment from the ribs on the carboy interfere with bottling.
So I've uncorked them all and threw it into batch 3 and 4 as top ups and they're happily sitting.
And batch 5 blueberry is in primary. Lovin it!

Six other wines on the go also; so been pretty damn busy! Yeah!


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## michael-s

Thanks for this recipe dangerdave. 
Just to let you know I printed out your recipe instructions for future use, hopefully in the very near future. I started with wine kits to enable me to become familiar with the wine making process and I definitely do, like everyone else here, want to make wine from scratch.

Thanks again.


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## jamesngalveston

Dave the blueberry sounds amazing....I wish I could get fresh here in Texas.
I do am making some original, (Now) for next summer. I am not running out of the original next year....
I give alot of it away....actually most of it.
But i do keep back my private reserve for my rehab buddies..lol
I was making a db peach port, but missed my time of adding the brandy.
Got to busy and wasnt watching my critical sugar level,and missed it.
So i cleared and bottled as just a peach db.
Starting another peach port sunday.


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## reefman

James, did you post your recipe for the peach dragon blood, or do you just substitute frozen peaches for the triple berry blend?
Thanks,


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## dangerdave

Likes for everyone! You are a great group of wine makers! Dragon Blood junkies, all!


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## fabrictodyefor

I'm such a newbie....I've only made one batch so far...used the quad berries as that is what my grocery store had! Going to town today to get more berries....the only thing I can't figure out....why did I bottle all that wine? Should have just bottled a few to try and hide so they could age for more than a week or two and put the rest in gallon jugs with screw tops! Thanks for the recipes and suggestions dangerdave.


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## jamesngalveston

Its hard to hide it away....I like mine chilled...not enough room in my fridge for my dragon blood and food....Food most go.


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## Winenoob66

jamesngalveston said:


> Its hard to hide it away....I like mine chilled...not enough room in my fridge for my dragon blood and food....Food most go.



Dragon's Blood contains fruit, so you are just changing what kind of food is in your fridge 

Also has anyone got the recipe up for the DB Peach port up?


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## fabrictodyefor

jamesngalveston said:


> lori, it was made from welches white grape peach frozen concentrate.



So how much did you use, jamesngalveston? I plan on making a concord grape/blackberry. I do like the idea of more fruit.... So I got frozen concord grape concentrate and frozen blackberries....was planning on a 50/50, but I would LOVE your input, how many cans and how many pounds of blackberries? I went to Wal Mart today and they had five 1 pound bags of blackberries, so how many cans of concentrate would you add to that? THANK YOU for your help


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## jamesngalveston

If you use 5 lbs of fresh frozen berries i would use 8 cans of concentrate for a 3 gallon batch.
that should give u a good blend of both flavors.
one should not over power the other...
you should get a taste of concord with a finish of blackberry...should be good.


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## boozehound

James. I gots 8lbs of frozen raspberrys. Wud u recommend a straight batch of that or blend with something else?


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## Fordguy

I am not James but I've made several batches of this with different fruits, lime juice and lemon juice.
I would think you could go with that, see how it turns out and tweek it to your liking. 
Just my opinion...


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## fabrictodyefor

Thanks, james, we do have a local mini store, so I'll hope they have grape concentrate! I only got 6 cans....one of my favorite wines is a wine from Talon Winery in Grand Junction, CO, they say it is 50% concord grape and 50%blackberry, that is why I wanted to try making it, gets a little pricy to have it shipped up here! Maybe I'll get to start it tomorrow! I do plan on adding the lemon juice????????


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## fabrictodyefor

Well, since I was kind of following the Dragon's Blood recipe, bought more stuff....combined 8 lbs frozen blackberries, 12 cans frozen concentrate grape juice, 48 oz lemon juice...added the 3 tsp pectin enzyme and will add sugar and pitch the yeast tomorrow!


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## fabrictodyefor

So took an initial sg reading, before the sugar and it was 1.064, made a simple syrup of 2 lbs sugar and 2 cups water, added only 1 1/2 cups of the syrup and the sg is at 1.078....haven't pitched the yeast yet.. Is this high enough? Or should I add a touch more of my syrup?  I feel as though I have strayed quite a bit from the original recipe, but I learned the hard way not to add too much sugar!


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## jamesngalveston

First off, you dont have to make a simple syrup when your in the primary , I use just white sugar..
you should have an sg of 1.095 are close.....


----------



## SoCalGuy

What tannin do you suggest for DB recipe?


----------



## SoCalGuy

SoCalGuy said:


> What tannin do you suggest for DB recipe?



Also type of yeast.


----------



## jamesngalveston

what ever you have on hand, i used pasteur red yeast, and just an wine tannin....


----------



## wineforfun

I use any wine tannin and normally Lavlin EC-1118(which is what the recipe calls for). I have made it with different yeast though.


----------



## iVivid

I've done them all with Lalvin 71B-1122 (aka Vintners Harvest MA33)


----------



## PoppaCork

I'm getting ready to start a batch of blueberry DB and I want to make it a 'hot' batch.(~15% ABV) 

Any ideas how much extra sugar to start with, or would it be better to use the normal starting amount and add simple syrup during fermentation to raise the SG?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i start mine out at 1.110...and let go dry.
are i start at 1.100 and when it gets to 1.055 i add brandy.


----------



## PoppaCork

Thanks, that helps.


----------



## dangerdave

I've been busy with family this week, but I see James has been fielding questions. Good man!

Now you guys got me thinking. I've have both a concord grape, and a blackberry version clearing. I might have to mix a little...


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have been trying my best dave...Without you its hard, where the hell you been......lol


----------



## dangerdave

Actually, I lied. I was _not_ busy with family this week. Quite the contrary. I was with a group of guys who abandon their families every year at Thanksgiving to go ATVing for the week in southern West Virginia. One of our friends lives nearby where we ride. His wife and mother-in-law make a big turkey day feast for us each year. We ride through the woods for a couple of hours from our cabin to his house and eat until we pop! This is our eighth year getting together like this. I bring the ladies some wine for their efforts, so everyone is happy. Good time had by all!


----------



## Pumpkinman

Sounds like a great time Dave!


----------



## fabrictodyefor

Well, I racked my Black Dragon...the blackberry/concord grape... to a carboy yesterday. It went very dry, sg at .994. So of course I had to taste test it....I do like the dry reds, so my taste buds didn't squawk too much. I'll probably back sweeten some, but I'll definitely wait for a while. I really liked the flavor, more concord grape than blackberry at this point. I was thinking a little sweeter and the blackberry would probably come forward a little more. I'm ready to make another quad berry as my first batch is almost gone!!! Where does it all go???? Sounds like a great time, Dave.


----------



## tkmorgan

jamesngalveston said:


> i start mine out at 1.110...and let go dry.
> are i start at 1.100 and when it gets to 1.055 i add brandy.



Why wouldn't you wait on fortification until fermentation is complete?


----------



## the_rayway

Looks like I'm FINALLY going to get my first batch going this week! Yaay! I'll do a 6 gallon of original SP, then rack it into 2-3 gallon carboys. One with fruit, one without. This way I can see/taste the difference.

Also, I'm thinking of using D47 - has anyone tried this? Will it work with DB/SP?


----------



## jamesngalveston

if i make a port wine..i stop it at 1.055 etc, so i have sugar left for sweetness and some of the original flavor, that way I do not need sorbate,are added sugar in the end.


----------



## dangerdave

the_rayway said:


> Looks like I'm FINALLY going to get my first batch going this week! Yaay! I'll do a 6 gallon of original SP, then rack it into 2-3 gallon carboys. One with fruit, one without. This way I can see/taste the difference.
> 
> Also, I'm thinking of using D47 - has anyone tried this? Will it work with DB/SP?


 
I have not tried that one, but please do, so you can post the results. I've tried maybe 4-5 different yeasts, and they all bring a unique charater to the wine.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

My Black Dragon (blackberries and frozen concord grape juice) has been sitting in the carboy for a couple of weeks now. Thought it was time to taste test to see about back sweetening. Starting sg at 1.090, ending sg at .998. Before I became addicted to making wine, I would buy dry to semi dry red wines. It seems to have more concord grape taste rather than the blackberries. Am thinking about splitting this one in two and adding blackberries to one carboy and leave the other sit for a while, got this idea from the_rayway, thanks for the idea... I added 1/4 tsp simple syrup to 1 cup of the BD and it seemed to fall flat! I've only made one other batch of Dragons' Blood...a quad berry that definitely needed back sweetening...and was very tasty and is almost gone.....


----------



## dangerdave

If it seems flat, just let it sit for a while---a few weeks maybe---and see how it is then. This recipe seems to evolve over time as it ages. Concords are a very full-flavored grape, and usually overpower anything they are mixed with. I thin that's why they are poplular for jellies.

It might be hard to bring the blackberry forward, but soaking some blackberries in there is worth a try. You might just end up with a more full-bodied BD, but that would be good in and of itself. 

Thanks for trying the recipe, fabrictodyefor. Pass it on!


----------



## Elmer

I busted out a bottle I had sitting in the back of my fridge. I had bottled this stuff back in June.
This batch I had under sweetened, 3/4 cup sugar per gallon.
Wow! Was It good. Not to dry but the black berry flavor seemed to come forward 

While my wife found it tart, I found my self taking the glass from her and declaring "more for me"!


----------



## vacuumpumpman

Thanks Dave !

Good thinking about the PDF format 
I am hoping to make some soon near the Holidays


----------



## ShawnDTurner

I used D47 in my batch last year. I love D47....


----------



## dangerdave

Elmer said:


> I busted out a bottle I had sitting in the back of my fridge. I had bottled this stuff back in June.
> This batch I had under sweetened, 3/4 cup sugar per gallon.
> Wow! Was It good. Not to dry but the black berry flavor seemed to come forward
> 
> While my wife found it tart, I found my self taking the glass from her and declaring "more for me"!


 
I reduced my sugar to 3/4 cup per gallon in my DB. Mostly to cut caloric intake over time---trying to help my wife lose some weight. She still loves it, and I like my wines a bit tart, so it's worked out well.


----------



## Winenoob66

Hi guys I am wanting to try my hand at making DB but I went to the LHBS and all I could get was a 6.5 gal fermenting bucket. My question is.. will this be big enough or will it overflow?

EC-1118 is the yeast I am gonna run with.


----------



## seth8530

Depends on how big of a batch you make (; I would stick to a 5 gallon batch.


----------



## Winenoob66

lol wonder what is would taste like if I kept the ingredients the same but only used water to 5 gal.


----------



## Elmer

Winenoob66 said:


> Hi guys I am wanting to try my hand at making DB but I went to the LHBS and all I could get was a 6.5 gal fermenting bucket. My question is.. will this be big enough or will it overflow?
> 
> EC-1118 is the yeast I am gonna run with.



I use the 6.5 gallon bucket and I did not over flow!


----------



## Winenoob66

you done the 6 gal mix and was fine with only a half gall headspace ?

My bucket is 6.5 to the bottom of the lid.


----------



## Elmer

Winenoob66 said:


> you done the 6 gal mix and was fine with only a half gall headspace ?
> 
> My bucket is 6.5 to the bottom of the lid.



Yes, it is close.
So stirr carefully. Drop the fruit in carefully.
But I have done it twice!


----------



## Winenoob66

Cool Thanks Elmer


----------



## jamesngalveston

wineboob, the wine will taste more fruity, if you only use 5 gallons of water, it will not hurt otherwise...
i use a 5 gallon all the time, when i dont have a 6 are 7 gallon carboy available.


----------



## Winenoob66

I think I will go with 5 gal of water then I really want the fruityness


----------



## jamesngalveston

good choice.....i would guess this is your first db....well, all i can say is..
home depot sales 20 gallon brute trash cans, that make great primarys.
i panicked yesterday...my sister asked if i had anymore dragon blood becuase she was out, i went throug about 150 bottles and couldnt find one....i forgot i moved it to my other wine storage.still i only have about 50 bottles of various...so time to crank up for the summer.


----------



## Winenoob66

lmao @ the 20 Gallon Brute trash cans. I have all the stuff to do 2 batches now so soon as primary gets empty I might start a new one. I even have 2 empty 5 gal carboys already, soon my 6 gal and the other 5 will be free that's if I get off my bum and get to washing bottles for the 2 mixes I have in them now.


----------



## Greydog

I started 6 gallons of DB on 11 Dec. I started with an SG of 1.082 and planned to stop fermentation at 1.010 and not back-sweeten. All went as planned until today. I racked the wine off the lees and dosed it with 1/4 tsp of potassium metabisulfite and 3 teaspoons of potassium sorbate and began degassing. Ran the battery down on my drill motor after about a half hour so I decided to recharge the battery while I ran some errands. Returned home after about 4 hours and started to degass again but it was fermenting again with vigor!! How much sorbate is safe to use in 6 gallons of wine? I'll probably ferment it bone dry now and back sweeten before bottling.


----------



## jamesngalveston

you can hasten the ferment by racking off the lees...its best to add the sorbate/kmeta after it clears...


----------



## Greydog

Yeah, I screwed up. For some reason I thought I could stop fermentation with the sulphite and sorbate....which I learned I can't. When this batch ferments below 1.000, and has cleared, can I back sweeten without adding more sorbate than I've already dumped in there? I don't want to ruin this batch.


----------



## jamesngalveston

you dont need to add more sorbate..


----------



## dangerdave

James is right. Don't add more sorbate. You don't want to know what that taste like! Leave it until it's dry (three days with as stable SG), then back sweeten to taste. Start small with the sugar and work up.

I've been testing my new batches with less sugar. I have a batch I just bottled yesterday. This one had only 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon. It sat in the carboy for a month before bottling, and it's great! I'm to the point now where I always make two or three batches at a time. If I'm doing one, it doesn't take much extra effort to make another right beside it...or three together in the Brute!


----------



## jamesngalveston

hey dave, how is the clearing agent test going.


----------



## dangerdave

Here ya go, James! Thirteen days after starting primary fermentation, four days after adding the clearing agents. The Sparkolloid is catching up, but it's still a bit hazy. It usually takes a week for the Sparkoilloid to finish clearing. Like I said, if they taste the same, it's Super Kleer for me from now on!


----------



## jamesngalveston

thanks for the info....cant wait till you taste them..to see if you can tell a difference in taste.


----------



## Greydog

Thanx James and Dave. I had a hard time getting this to start fermenting in my cool basement but once it started it's going gangbusters!! Actually looks like blood in the carboy. I'll try 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon when its time. The sweetness tasted just perfect at sg of 1.010 when I tried to stop the fermentation so I'll see how close 1/2 cup per gallon gets me to that. I don't care for real sweet wine. Still don't know what possessed me to think I could stop the fermentation???


----------



## PoppaCork

dangerdave said:


> I've been testing my new batches with less sugar. I have a batch I just bottled yesterday. This one had only 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon. It sat in the carboy for a month before bottling, and it's great! I'm to the point now where I always make two or three batches at a time. If I'm doing one, it doesn't take much extra effort to make another right beside it...or three together in the Brute!



Dave, 
My first batch of Dragon Blood we only used 2-1/2 cups to back-sweeten(+ the juice from another 3lb bag of triple-berry) We like it on the dry side and wanted to be sure it didn't sweeten up too much as you cautioned it could.(not much chance of it getting better in the bottle though, we are already down to 10 bottles out of 29, and it was just bottled on Nov, 29th!) We are happy with the results and plan on using only 2-1/2 cups on the next one too. 
Going to start a 12-18 gallon batch after the first of the year to try to get ahead of the game. I just need to order a 20 gal brute.(our local HD doesn't stock the 20 gal)

On a side note, I thought your name sounded familiar..., I used to ride atv's at WNF all the time and rode a few times with the WNF Gang, MikeyV, Wrecks, Resqu, Yellow Rose, RoboBob, and others.(your name was often mentioned) I think I met you during a fall ride a few years ago riding with the gang at WNF while eating 'slaw dogs' at Ma Bears.


----------



## dangerdave

Small world, ain't it, Greg! That is indeed me! I still ride regularly in WV with some guys from NC. They come up, I drive down. We meet near southern WV around the Hatfield & McCoy Trails. We do a couple three or four rides each year. A few of the old Wayne Gang have followed me down there. "The Punisher" (Jeff) rides with us regularly, now. On the last ride we had around Thankgiving, "Mr. Ed" showed up! I hadn't seen him in years! You may or may no have met those two. The rest of the Gang kinda disolved over time. The complete grooming of the Wayne trails took alot of the fun out of riding in Ohio.

On the wine making front, I'm very glad you enjoy the recipe. It's a favorate around here. Have you tried any of the many variations? The straight blueberry is very good!


----------



## wineforfun

Just reporting back in on a bottle of my first batch of DB. It was bottled 12-20-2012. I used the original recipe, which called for double the lemon juice we now use, and only 1lb. of fruit per gallon, to which I use 1 1/2 per gallon now. 

Anyway, it is incredible. So smooth. I only used 1/2 cup sugar per gal. to backsweeten and it is what I would call a semi-sweet to sweet wine. Reminds me of a white zin with much more flavor and depth.

If you can hold onto some of your DB for a year, it is well worth it. I have a few more bottles of DB variations that I am holding onto for the year mark.


----------



## PoppaCork

I do remember The Punisher and Mr. Ed's jerky! I hope they all are doing well.

About the blueberry, Monday evening I back-sweetened a 6 - gallon batch of blueberry. 
It came in at 16% ABV so I added 2-1/2 cups of sugar and the juice from an extra 3 lb. bag of blueberries to it to try to bring the flavor back up a bit.(although I am still happy with the results, the next batch gets double fruit in the beginning) Can't wait for it to clear. 

Now I've got to start a 12 - gallon batch of original.(only 4 bottles left!)


----------



## jamesngalveston

the next batch gets double fruit in the beginning)

smart move....i double the fruit every single time...
the fruit in the original gives a very light summer wine, but if you add ice to it, it changes rapidly...I make mine double the fruit, and with a few ice cubes its still very refreshing.
I just bought a japanesse ice baller, just for my dragon blood this year.


----------



## Winenoob66

James did you get the plastic mold for one or the aluminum one, to be sure your not gonna ice pick em out. lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

I got a stainless steel one...http://www.cirrusproducts.com/collections/ice-ball/products/2-00-cirrus-press


----------



## Winenoob66

nice I didn't know they had the stainless steel ones


----------



## wineforfun

jamesngalveston said:


> I got a stainless steel one...http://www.cirrusproducts.com/collections/ice-ball/products/2-00-cirrus-press



WHAT? You paid $429 for an ice maker? Tell me it ain't so.


----------



## jamesngalveston

had to...i am hosting part of a parade krew for mardi gras..i have to have 100 green,100 purple,100 gold ice balls.....so i will make ahead with this thing and freeze them for use in march.


----------



## keahunter

This will be my first db and I want to follow the directions to the tee. I noticed that the directions specifically say not to attach a lid or airlock, does that hold true the whole time until you rack into the secondary?


----------



## jamesngalveston

yes...cover with a muslim cloth are something....


----------



## ShawnDTurner

When I made my variant I did use a lid and airlock. If you have a fruit fly or many they will find it. The variant fermented just fine. Cheers


----------



## keahunter

Thanks, I appreciate it.


----------



## jamesngalveston

follow the recipe..end of story.


----------



## mromilio

Hey guys, Happy Holidays and best wishes for a Happy, Healthy and prodigious winemaking New Year.

I am ready for my next Dragon Blood batch (have 3 gallons clearing after dosing with Sparkolloid yesterday), and I'd like to try a 1 gallon batch of Dragon Blood, but using a mix of tart and sweet canned pie cherries for the fruit.

I want to stick to the form and function of the DB recipe, but my questions to the intelligent members of this forum are:

1 - Should I use lemon or lime juice? I saw some cherry wine recipes that suggest to pair it with lime juice

2 - I've never done a cherry wine, so I'm wondering if the pulp this fruit will create will cause clearing issues not evident with the frozen triple berry blend? My first wine was fresh strawberry, and it generated so much pulp that it took forever to clear.

Thanks, guys. I'm excited to try a Cherry wine, and I hope the the tried and true DB recipe method will pay dividends.

Mario


----------



## jamesngalveston

you do know that it is just as easy to make a 3 gallon as a one gallon...
i have no idea about canned fruit, i would make sure to add all to a bag, for easy removal.
canned fruit is all ready cooked to death, so i would imagine there will be lots of sediment.
if it has sorbate in it, be carefull, its a little harder to ferment, but will none the less.


----------



## mromilio

jamesngalveston said:


> you do know that it is just as easy to make a 3 gallon as a one gallon...
> i have no idea about canned fruit, i would make sure to add all to a bag, for easy removal.
> canned fruit is all ready cooked to death, so i would imagine there will be lots of sediment.
> if it has sorbate in it, be carefull, its a little harder to ferment, but will none the less.




Thanks, James. Out of 3 gal carboys and I enjoy making small batch wines anyhow....

Will definitely add fruit to a muslin sack. I intend to use the presser method very carefully on these cherries.

Want to make sure I clarify, I am not using cherry pie filling, I'm using Oregon red tart cherries in water, as well as Oregon Dark Sweet cherries in syrup, no Sorbate in the ingredients. Gonna aim for 1.085-1.090 for a starting SG.

Any thoughts on the Lemon or Lime juice question? Thanks again for your reply.

Mario

Primary: none

Clearing: Triple Berry Dragon's Blood (3 gal)

Bulk Aging: 
Welch's Concord Grape (1 gal)
Welch's White Grape & Berries (1 gal)
Fresh Strawberry Wine (1 gal)


----------



## fabrictodyefor

jamesngalveston said:


> 20 gallon brute trash cans, that make great primarys.
> .



Is "brute" the brand name? Does it have to be any specific type or brand of plastic 20 gallon trash can? Decided my next batch of DB I may as well do a double as it goes very fast! If I do a double batch do I also add double the yeast??


----------



## cintipam

Yes, Brute is the brand name. They are food safe. The best price by far is at Home Depot as they are 20 bucks including the lid. Most places charge more for the can alone, and a crazy price for the lid. I bought 2 and use one as a back up just in case. In the mean time it corrals my light weight large size winemaking stuff to neaten up the wine making corner.

Pam in cinti


----------



## cintipam

Forgot to say yes, double the yeast. Technically I think you may get by with one pack if you carefully watch and feed in several portions, but yeast is cheap so I have never tried that route.

Pam in cinti


----------



## cintipam

Just double checked myself by googling Brute trash can. Brand is actually rubbermaid, but Brute is their commercial quality line of trashcans that are all food quality. They actually do come in smaller and larger sizes, but 20 gal is pretty roomy. Unless I'm trying an extra large batch from fruit from my yard I can't imagine ever needing bigger.

Pam in cinti hopefully for the last time


----------



## fabrictodyefor

Thank you, Pam, our local mini hardware store does not have the "Brute" but I need a bigger one for my bursting at the seams concord grape wine, so we're headed to town (80 mile round trip) to pick one up from Home Depot! Thanks for the prompt reply.


----------



## dangerdave

mromilio said:


> Any thoughts on the Lemon or Lime juice question?


 
Mario, the lime juice will work just fine. Sub it out for the lemon, if you like, and good luck!


----------



## Winenoob66

Dave did you ever try the taste tests with super kleer and sparkloid ? If so how did it turn out?


----------



## cintipam

FTDF, happy to help. I'm also a fabriholic and vintage sewing machine fanatic. I know how cool that price is for a very roomy fermentation bucket. I have to laugh at myself since when I first started this winemaking thing I honestly thought I was just going to do gallon jugs. Not very efficient with a backyard full of asian pear and tart cherry trees.

Pam in cinti


----------



## dangerdave

Winenoob66 said:


> Dave did you ever try the taste tests with super kleer and sparkloid ? If so how did it turn out?


 
Just posted it. Check the thread.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hi everyone! Hope you all had a wonderful holiday! I'm back at my 2nd attempt at DB this time to the T except for 2 bananas - I really enjoyed the banana in the last batch and in the recipe I read it said that bananas were optional! 

Anyways I have a quick silly question. I'm doing a larger batch again because I have a huge plastic trash can kind of like the trash can you all are taking about, that I'm using. It too heavy to bring upstairs to my walk in closet/brewery! So I left it near my pellet stove which is thermostatically controlled. I did the first step last night using warm water. Today the temp of the juice is 64F. Must I have it between 70-80F just to get the fermentation started? 

I know that others have done cold fermentations - far colder than this but wondering if it really does need that temp range just to get rolling first and then whatever goes. I'm thinking yes but just wanted to see what everyone else's experiences were. If yes I'll get my trusty space heater out. In tried fitting my never used brew belt on it last night and it snapped! Not sure if we can fix it ourselves. I'm pitching the yeast tonight so if needed, i'll have to get my juice up to the right temp prior.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i think it will ferment at 64 but will be slow....if you could get it up to at least 70 you would be better off.


----------



## kryptonitewine

I'm no expert but I think it would be fine. May just be slow to start.

per the Lalvin website for EC-1118

This strain ferments well over a very wide temperature range, from 10° to 30°C (50° to 86°F)


----------



## LoneStarLori

*What are these crystals?*

I made this TBDB in Oct. My first batch. After all the fermenting and such, I used Super-kleer and let it sit about 10 days. It was perfectly clear. before bottling, I filtered into another carboy using the Allinone with a .5 filter. (I didn't want to strip the color using the #1.) then bottled.

Everything looked fine.. Now that it has sat about 6 weeks, I have these particles or crystals floating in every bottle. I have kept them in my wine storage room/office at the same temp (70º-72º- ish) as my other wines and none of them has done this. The particles are light in color, some big and some micro, there are loads of them. 
Any thoughts?


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks James and Kryptonite  yes I'm obviously using the EC-1118 as I've never had an issue with it whatsoever... I have my space heater on it to see if I can get up to about 70F. It's bloody cold up here in my neck of the woods and I happen to live in an old 1902 log home worth nothing but my pellet stove as heat currently! So naturally it's a bit chilly around here! 

Lori: I sure hope someone gets back to you! That happened to me too, but I thought it was because I didn't filter mine. It was super clear after a week of my using sparkalloid. Then carefully racked off the sediment with being nowhere close to the bottom, I make extra for this purpose. The only difference for me is it looked like flakes almost but not as much as you have there. Were you using tap water? I used tap water but my tap water is softened water so I thought maybe that had something to do with it. But my other wines and my cider did not do it either... So also a little confused about why only the DB?


----------



## fabrictodyefor

darn, Lori, hope one the experts get back to you, We are almost done with my first batch of DB, (gave a lot away for Christmas!) it was bottled 11/25 and we opened one just the other day and it was clear as a bell! I did use Sparkaloid and waited about 2 weeks before I bottled.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I'm wondering now if I should have waited longer after my sparkalloid application. What about tartrate crystals that precipitate in storage at cooler temps? I've never had this happen only read about it.


----------



## LoneStarLori

I always use spring water. It is recommended most for wine as it has lots of minerals and helps keep the yeasties happy. 

I don't think they are Tartaric crystals since the storage temp is far too high to cold crash. 
Someone will chime in soon I'm sure.


----------



## ckvchestnut

LoneStarLori said:


> I always use spring water. It is recommended most for wine as it has lots of minerals and helps keep the yeasties happy. I don't think they are Tartaric crystals since the storage temp is far too high to cold crash. Someone will chime in soon I'm sure.



Ya I normally do use spring water... Our water is SO HARD at 26 GPG that we couldn't ever drink it like that either so we've always relied on spring water here... Interested to see the feedback!


----------



## kryptonitewine

I've experienced little whispy things in mine if I bottle too quickly after using sparkoloid but so far (knock on wood) haven't experienced an issue with superkleer. 

I haven't seen these types of crystals before. Are they firm or mushy?

wondering if it's new yeasties, if sorbate wasn't mixed in good and you sweetened then bottled. But I would think you'd be noticing the gas when you opened a bottle.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Wispy as in soft flexible debris? My flakes or particles are soft I never bothered to remove them and I didn't seem to see or taste them once in the glass. I expected to see it on the bottom of my glass but no. I think in my own personal experience that I didn't wait long enough even though it was at least a week and so clear I could see straight through the carboy. I'm going to use super Kleer this batch but that's what Lori used and you waited 2 weeks right? I only racked off that carboy with sparkalloid in it straight to bottles. Maybe I'll rack into clean carboy and wait another week before bottling this time...

Looking at your photos again Lori that looks exactly like what I had in mine... Could it still be left over proteins from the fruit? Did you use te called for fruit or extra? And did you adjust the amount of pectic enzyme? I think I added more of both on mine.


----------



## kryptonitewine

ckvchestnut said:


> Wispy as in soft flexible debris? QUOTE]
> 
> Yeah, it almost looked like a thin little cloud in the wine.
> 
> When I use sparkaloid, I add the hot mix to the wine wait two weeks and rack, wait another week to ensure no other fallout, and then backsweeten and bottle.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Do you do the same amt of rackings with super Kleer? I'll definitely try the extra rackings. I also read that filtration does not necessarily get everything out of wines either unless you filter with progressively smaller filters or finer whatever. I have a filtration a system but haven't used it yet.


----------



## kryptonitewine

yes I do the extra racking but now it's just a habit I developed, not sure if it's good, bad, or indifferent. I just don't like to waste wine and don't want guck in it either.

I don't have a filter (yet).


Lori, this may be a stretch but look at post 55 on this thread by Jamesfromgalveston. 

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f86/sparkolloid-vs-super-klear-42435/index6.html

Do you think it could be yeasties?


----------



## ckvchestnut

kryptonitewine said:


> yes I do the extra racking but now it's just a habit I developed, not sure if it's good, bad, or indifferent. I just don't like to waste wine and don't want guck in it either. I don't have a filter (yet).



It can't be too bad of a habit if it's done correctly! I did rack once after clearing, waited a week but then racked off any sediment to bottles. So I'll try an extra racking and an extra week's wait this time... Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## dangerdave

Lori, I'm at a loss. I haven't ever seen stuff like that in mine. I'm sorry i can't be more help.

I filter my white and blush wines with a simple Vinbrite filter system. I never see any sediment in my bottles. Never.


----------



## LoneStarLori

kryptonitewine said:


> Lori, this may be a stretch but look at post 55 on this thread by Jamesfromgalveston.
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f86/sparkolloid-vs-super-klear-42435/index6.html
> 
> Do you think it could be yeasties?



Hmm.. now 'm wondering if it might not be yeast. I'll crack a bottle tomorrow and see if she pops. As James referred to, I added kmeta, sorbate and Superkleer on the same day. That's the way the kits I have been doing call for it. Therefore, I'm thinking you might be onto something since this is not a kit and had fruit. 



dangerdave said:


> Lori, I'm at a loss. I haven't ever seen stuff like that in mine. I'm sorry i can't be more help.
> 
> I filter my white and blush wines with a simple Vinbrite filter system. I never see any sediment in my bottles. Never.



Dave, no help? I feel unloved.


----------



## jamesngalveston

looks like acid forming...did you do an acid test on the wine before adding acid blend to see how much was required....are just use the standard measurement...did you add anything besides the berry blend...
I would bet it is acid forming out of the wine.
I dont think its a residual sugar.


----------



## the_rayway

Now, don't laugh at me here Lori: but I've had several cases where I've filtered my wine at bottling only to have the wine come out with more 'sediment' than it had before it went through the filter. 

The filter pads were flaking into the wine. It'a happened 3 times now. Totally random, different purchase dates, soaking times are usually 10 minutes before I pop them into the filter. Happened to my Dad too.

Possible?


----------



## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> looks like acid forming...did you do an acid test on the wine before adding acid blend to see how much was required....are just use the standard measurement...did you add anything besides the berry blend...
> I would bet it is acid forming out of the wine.
> I dont think its a residual sugar.



I did not test the acid, I just went with the standard DB recipe. The only thing I changed was added some dried cranberries when it got down to about 1.03.



the_rayway said:


> Now, don't laugh at me here Lori: but I've had several cases where I've filtered my wine at bottling only to have the wine come out with more 'sediment' than it had before it went through the filter.
> 
> The filter pads were flaking into the wine. It'a happened 3 times now. Totally random, different purchase dates, soaking times are usually 10 minutes before I pop them into the filter. Happened to my Dad too.
> 
> Possible?



That could be a possibility, I used one of the whole house type filters which I don't think will do that, but I'm not going to rule anything out.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I had to look at all my notes, and I found a few bottles of db that had the same thing in them...did not affect the taste at all..
I think it is caused by the sorbate not being mixed up 100 percent, sorbate is very soluble in alcohol, but not in water....make sure you mix the sorbate in about 1/2 cup water thouroughly before adding to wine.
and again....i would clear the wine first before adding sorbate...
draw some of the wine out, maybe a cup, and put in fridge and see if it
clumps up and drops to the bottom in about a day.
also...it looks like in the pic, you are getting some of the stuff dropping out as sediment.
Not sure why you filter, i dont....I have the setup, but I dont use it.
Another reason to make your wine at about 14 percent abv..is nothing harmfull will live in it, no yeast , no bacteria, nothing...so you you dont need the sorbate, even adding sugar.....


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks for that info James I'm going to try your tips too! What about drawing 1/2 cup of the wine mixing and then mixing into the whole batch? You said it wasn't too soluble in water? Or does it dilute quite well in a small amount of water if mixed thoroughly.? You'd have to start pretty high with the SG to get 14%... I think I started mine at 1.10 may not be high enough to get it that high... I think it'll end up around 13.5 abv or so...


----------



## LoneStarLori

I was leaning toward the sorbate thing until I opened a bottle this morning. I shook the bottle first and saw no bubbles so I tasted it. It's just a little tingly. Then,,, I put a vacuvin top on it and as soon as the air started being sucked out, the bubbles showed up. Shaking it produces even more. I guess it wasn't stabilized as I thought it was.


----------



## jamesngalveston

whoool lori...you need to get that stuff unbottled, are you will be blowing caps.....degass and let clear again.


----------



## dangerdave

Amen, to that! Watch out for bombs! Unbottle into carboy and degas again. Might want to add a pinch of sulfite for good measure, as you'll be getting some air to it again.

Hope you get this straightened out, Lori!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Lori, when you added the sorbate did you mix with water are wine....


----------



## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> Lori, when you added the sorbate did you mix with water are wine....


I would have mixed it with water. Now I'm beginning to think i may not have added it at all. YIKES!

I'll unbottle them. i wonder if its a good idea to run Super Kleer again after degassing and sulfating. then, AFTER it's clear, sorbate.


----------



## jamesngalveston

what do you think the abv is...
if its like 13 abv are better and its clear, i wouldnt add it.


----------



## jamesngalveston

most say to mix the sorbate with some wine, thats not correct.
sorbate does not dissolve in wine, but it does in water, and is converted
to sorbic acid...which is soluble in wine....but has to be mixed with water to become sorbic acid.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> most say to mix the sorbate with some wine, thats not correct. sorbate does not dissolve in wine, but it does in water, and is converted to sorbic acid...which is soluble in wine....but has to be mixed with water to become sorbic acid.



Ok now I get you! From now on I'll mix it in a bit of water prior to putting it in the wine. So it must have been a case of not dissolving then if that was my case at all. The wine didn't last very long so I have no idea if it was all bottles affected or just the few last ones... Oh and gave away my last few which were supposed to sit around for 6 months to a year... Will have to hide wine better next time!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Lori....after looking at all my notes, and going back to feb and looking some bottles of wine I made:.
I had 19 bottles that had pretty much the same thing in them,
checking my notes, they were sorbated by mixing sorbate with wine and campden before being induced in to the wine, they were all degassed.
I had 41 bottles that i had added sorbate/campden to with water then induced and they were clear as a bell, all were degassed.

My thougts for what its worth..

If you mix the sorbate with wine before adding to carboy, it will not mix , but will be clear for a while...it will eventually turn yellowish, wispy,flaky brown..reason is because it has not be converted to sorbic acid.. So it stayed in suspension and clear until it got color, maybe because of the molecular makeup, etc.

Also>>>it has been found that a lot of companies selling potassium srobate is actually selling Potassium carbonate.
Potassium carbonate will turn a yellowish brown also...

That was early on, before i quit using sorbate.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> Lori....after looking at all my notes, and going back to feb and looking some bottles of wine I made:. I had 19 bottles that had pretty much the same thing in them, That was early on, before i quit using sorbate.



James I've seen you say that you don't use sorbate much, are you just taking your time then and fermenting to .990 and then waiting for a specific amount of time other than for the wine to clear before bottling? I know you said you finish your wines above 14%. But can't EC-1118 ferment to higher levels like 18%? How long would we have to wait before backsweetening if we don't use sorbate?

Sorry if this has been posted somewhere else!


----------



## LoneStarLori

All good info James. I read your link on the sorbate being dissolved in water. I have always used water for it, not wine. I am in the process of degassing right now. there is no doubt that is is loaded with Co2. I honestly think i didn't let it finish before I sorbated it. Then back sweetened also. The abv is about 12% I can't find my notes anywhere. ( Note to self; make organization a priority this year). 
I'm going to add Sparkelloid when i think all the gas is out along with 1 campden. then see what happens. Wish i had more Super kleer but Im out.


----------



## jamesngalveston

chestnut since so many use sorbate I am not advising anything for you to do....But I do this.

I use redstar pasteur red yeast are premier curvee, both capable of 18& abv.
I start every wine at 1.110 are 1.120 and all go dry to .990.
When i rack the first time I add campden mixed with water to dissolve.
I then wait for it to get about 1/2 of sediment and rack again, and add super kleer.
after it is completely clear i add my sugar are back flavoring, i check after
addding and if needed i bring up the abv by adding a small amoount of spirits.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Lori, buy in bulk on amazon...its a lot cheaper...
PS: going to farm sunday and fertilize all the black berries...should be a bumper crop, this year....I hope you come get some. I am shooting for about 900 to 1000 lbs...hopefully./


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks for the info James it's nice to have more than a few options! It's a lot like cooking  

That's a lot of blackberries! I'm jealous! Been wanting to plant those for years! I've just planted a huge amount of highbush cranberry and service berry can't wait to see how that will translate into winemaking!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I guess making wine is a lot like cooking, I am a very avid cook. I do a lot of research before jumping in both feet forward, sometimes backward depending on how much good whiskey i have had....
I have made crepes where you could see through them, and some like a tortillia...lol]
kfkfkfk happens.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha that's funny! Lol I love to cook anything goes - almost!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I am a big meat eater, but i love vegtables ..I guess i am a purist of sorts, I dont like anything canned,boxed are packaged, I buy meat in bulk and freeze, I but as much fresh as I can possibly get..I go to the grocery store every single day for my vegetables, potatoes, etc.
Might be the reason I dont like sorbate....Its not real....
I would rather have a banana with black spots then one that is gassed to death, I would rather have a real egg, then a liquid one that is bombarded with sorbate...


----------



## jamesngalveston

where you from chestnut


----------



## ckvchestnut

Wow you just labelled me to a t! Would rather not have to put a lot of junk in my wine but we need to have safe wine I guess so the k meta is important if I'm giving it away or it has to sit or awhile! We try to grow most of our own food, and what we can't produce ourselves we get locally - as in just down the road or in out back yard so to speak! 

I'm up in eastern Ontario about an hour west of Ottawa... It's frigid here! I was reading another thread about weather in various parts off the US affecting grapes. I guess the odd thing that comes your way like freaky low temps and high winds could wreak havoc on some types. But our grapes and our muscadines live through practically anything that comes our way. I had a lot of other plants that I had to severely prune last summer due to severe winter kill from last winter... But all the grapes were happy! We've had -39 to -40c weather for more than a few days at a time and high winds! Ugh I much prefer spring and summer - even fall! But... This is a good time to be making wine! It's an indoor thing!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I think a lot of native plants can survive brutal cold, and brutal heat..as long as there is water...
I live in Galveston,texas, on the gulf coast, where the low temp is around 42 on the average, and high like 90 to 99 in summer which is from may to september.
I have about 1/2 acre planted every year...i grow my own tomatoes,cucumbers,peppers,melons,blackberries,mulberries,muscadines,mustang grapes, corn,herbs,turnip greens,spinach,cabbage,brocoli,okra,oninons.
I love it, I grew up with my mom that had a cafe in new orleans and a garden in the back...go figure...im just like her...thank goodness.


----------



## ckvchestnut

That's awesome James! You've got quite the list there! For me it was the opposite! My dad had a huge garden and a green thumb to boot. Everything my mother touched died sadly  

Ya we were getting some extreme highs that we weren't used to and a nasty drought the summer before last... Plants weren't happy with that! We raise our own meat and egg chickens, and the so many types of veggies as well! Broccoli, tomatoes (too many types to name), rhubarb, onions, carrots, corn, cilantro, celery, garlic, beets, lettuce, turnips, beans, cucumbers, asparagus, peas and other legumes, Jerusalem artichokes, squash and pumpkins not to mention all the fruit out here. Let's see: elderberries, raspberries, apples and crab apples, black raspberries blueberries, cranberry and service berry now. Would like to plant blackberries and cherries, perhaps plums I had a lovely plum tree at my last place that produced nice sweet fruit... I'm thinking of getting into more varietal types of grapes that can withstand our climate.... Have to research again more on my sourcing. 

We have 50 acres here of untouched land, we harvest wild strawberries and fiddle heads when we have the time as well... Oh also have a large supply of butternuts here. I much prefer summer - more to do when I'm not at work or playing with the horses! 

Carolyn


----------



## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> Lori, buy in bulk on amazon...its a lot cheaper...
> PS: going to farm sunday and fertilize all the black berries...should be a bumper crop, this year....I hope you come get some. I am shooting for about 900 to 1000 lbs...hopefully./



I'm thinking this year should be really good for the berries. I can't remember when we have had this much 'winter" so early and for so long. 
Count me in for sure! 
I worked Featherfest for 3 years and April is a great time to be in Galveston. I love The Strand. The coolest Fiesta dinnerware shop on the planet is there.


----------



## dangerdave

My recipe thread has been overrun! No problem. Chat away, y'all!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Oops sorry Dave! My post was a wee bit off topic! I love that Dragon Blood though! Today it is bubbling like crazy and I have funny observation to make: even after just one batch of DB under my belt as soon as the DB concoction was in the fermenter and first day stirring this huge nostalgic memory of that yummy smell came over me! Like I had been making it for years but hadn't in awhile... Call me crazy. But it was like you know when you smell some awesome cooking or food that you have fond memories of as a child? I think this recipe will be sticking with me for good!


----------



## dangerdave

Interesting observation, Carolyn. I am invariably humbled by the love many have shown for this wine. My heart swells every time someone praises the recipe or posts a related story. But I never thought to ponder a kind of Dragon Blood philosophy, as you imply. I have made so much that I could make DB with my eyes closed, like finding my wifes lips in the dark. Every batch started is like a reunion with an old friend. Each bag is squeezed is like a charished handshake with a close acquaintance. So, your point is well made...with me anyway.

You may indeed be a little crazy, but all the best people are.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha! That's so true! What is this all about! I just want to go look and stir all the time but I don't of course! I'll be happy to be in the DB groove so to speak! I'm following the directions but I ended up taking it stronger and forgetting how the fruit will affect the OG! Lol so I brought it to 1.100 originally aiming for 1.095 but didn't care too much about accuracy and forgot about the fruit... So today SG is 1.110 but looking at your dragon port thread I'm wondering if this will turn out just fine and not like red rocket fuel jungle juice! 

Will aim for a tad lower next batch unless one day I am inspired to try something like a dragon port


----------



## dangerdave

It's going to be a while before I see how the Dragon Port turns out. Three months between tastings and finish up next Fall. It's amazing how much patience I have learned. But I think you'll be fine with this one. James makes his potent all the time and drinks it like water. If you're not happy with it in the end, you can always crank out another batch (lower in ABV) and blend them. Then you'll have twice as much!

Groove on!


----------



## kryptonitewine

I made a batch at 1.11. No worries. Going down just as fast as the rest. ;-/


----------



## LoneStarLori

My daughter came for a visit this weekend, and while I was degassing my fizzy batch, she tasted it and with wide eyes said "This stuff is dangerous! It tastes like juice and goes down way to easy." Then she made a comment about how I said it was being made for the beach and we had better plan on sleeping on the sand if we take it. lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha! Better bring some parasols Lori  I'm sure DB at almost any strength would go down easily!! I'm one of those ppl who don't like to waste their time drinking water! "If I would have wanted water I would have asked for water!" I think that's from some old beer commercial lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

LOL, dave is correct it goes down like water...
To tell the truth if I would have never found the db recipe, i probably would not still be making wine, are drinking wine...
Lots of people think that DB is not really a wine, more of a wine cooler...
BUNK>...its just as much wine as a white,are red grape,and just as much wine as any kit...
I can not make enough to go around..
I have 10 gallons ready for mardi gras and about to start 3 6gallon batches for the summer.


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## ckvchestnut

Mardi Gras lucky bum! Wish I was your neighbor - never ending supply over there! Ya that's the beauty of this! Goes down like water but it's NOT water! Hehe! Had to add this for fun!


----------



## jamesngalveston

is that a straw i see in there....think its early drinker, lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yup! I found a place that sells extra big ones! Lol JK  that's the handle of my stirring ladle


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## LoneStarLori

DB and Mardi Gras. Sounds like a match made in Heaven. 

Laisser le bon temps rouler !!


----------



## kryptonitewine

jamesngalveston said:


> is that a straw i see in there....think its early drinker, lol




Bwahaha. Lmao.


----------



## Winenoob66

For some reason I can just picture James standing behind you saying " Is it done yet ,Is it done yet, Is it done yet "


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have like 3 people making wine now, becuase of the dragon blood....


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## Winenoob66

I haven't done anything yet to get mine going other than getting everything for it, guess I just need to get off my bum and do it.


----------



## dangerdave

As a matter of history, my wife was the impetus for this recipe. She used to drink a lot of the Gallo Family Vinyards Cafe White Zinfandel. It is described as, "A bright red wine with light floral and fresh berry notes, sparkling raspberry fruit flavor, and a smooth, refreshing finish." Dragon Blood was my attempt to reproduce that wine for her---in a cheaper form.

She drinks a lot of Dragon Blood. Out of all the kits I have made and all the other wines we have tasted, she would prefer a cold glass of DB over any wine in the world. She loves me..._and _my wine!


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## ckvchestnut

Guess you don't have to worry about her going anywhere anytime soon huh? ;-)

Dave the dragon blood "pusher" lol


----------



## dangerdave

True dat! We have such a magical synergy in our house.

She asks, "Are you cooking dinner, or am I?"

I answer, "Are you making wine, or am I?"


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> True dat! We have such a magical synergy in our house. She asks, "Are you cooking dinner, or am I?" I answer, "Are you making wine, or am I?"


 LMAO!! I ask the same question to my hubby! However, he CANNOT give me the same reply anymore!! I'm the designated wine maker now and he's primarily the beer and cider man! Lol


----------



## Loxalibations

Would it totally throw this wine off if I replaced some of the water with reconstituted grape juice? Just wondering how the concentration of adding actual grape would change things.


----------



## dangerdave

Never tried that, Lox. Give it a go and let us know how it turns out. Experimentation is encouraged!


----------



## Elmer

Gearing up to make a batch of Blueberry/Raspberry.
I have more frozen rapberries than I can count since my uncle gave me near 10 lbs.
I was only able to purchase 3 lbs of blue berries.
I was going to use 6 lbs of berries, 3 blue, 3 red. I want to keep an equal part blue/red!
In an effort to get more flavor I was thinking of using 5 gallons of water, rather than 6 (this will also fit my well with the 5 gal carboy I intend to buy).

Any thoughts on cutting a gallon of water to boost flavor?


----------



## jamesngalveston

elmer that will give you more flavor...i do it all the time.


----------



## StoneCreek

Okay wizards of wines, I have a serious question on my first batch of DB (okay first batch of anything). I have followed the recipe (or so I thought) and it has been fermenting away for about 9 days. The first couple of days I noticed a cap forming on the must but after day three the cap stopped forming back. It has been very bubbly, maybe fizzing would be a better word, and the SG has been steadily dropping so I haven't questioned anything. I did check on it yesterday about and hour or two after what I thought was a vigorous stirring and I noticed the cap was forming again. A few hours later I lifted the lid and noticed the cap was gone. Again, lots of fizzing. My first though was maybe I haven't been stirring as vigorously as I should have been, so this morning I got out my drill and paint stirrer attachment and went to town for about five minutes or so. Yes it was cleaned and sanitized. Lots of CO2 released and lots of Oxygen put in. After an hour or so I checked on it and noticed a nice thick cap had formed and its been there all day. So my question is, Have I done damage by not introducing enough O2 during the daily stirring routine? Should I worry? I'm guessing since the SG has been dropping consistently I'm good but I'd like some conformation on that. Thanks for any input.


----------



## LoneStarLori

I'm certainly not the DB expert, but it sounds to me everything was going just fine. The cap will evolve depending on the stage of fermentation. By the end, you won't have one at all. What was your SG before you tried to make a smoothie out of it? D sorry, couldn't help myself )


----------



## cmason1957

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Sounds like your yeast is happy. I wouldn't give it another stir with a drill attached thing, but you didn't hurt anything.

FWIW: I have made dragons blood stirring twice a day, once a day, only at the start and end, lid on and airlocked, covered with a towel. Pretty much every combinstion possible. They all turn out just fine.


----------



## StoneCreek

LoneStarLori said:


> ... The cap will evolve depending on the stage of fermentation. By the end, you won't have one at all. ... )



oh, that would have been good info to know! But now that you mention it... it did sorta look like a nice creamy fruit smoothie after being whipped, whipped good lol

I don't recall reading that anywhere in all my data mining on here. It goes to show that learning by doing and asking questions is still the best way to net good info. The SG this morning was 1.012. Yes, I realize its about to be done anyway but I have to experiment a bit in order to learn anything.

The following has been the daily SG readings in sequential order:

Starting sg - 1.090
1.088
1.078
1.065
1.050
1.038
1.029
1.018
1.012

Temp has been an average of about 65 degrees.


----------



## StoneCreek

cmason1957 said:


> I don't think you have anything to worry about. Sounds like your yeast is happy. I wouldn't give it another stir with a drill attached thing, but you didn't hurt anything.
> 
> FWIW: I have made dragons blood stirring twice a day, once a day, only at the start and end, lid on and airlocked, covered with a towel. Pretty much every combinstion possible. They all turn out just fine.



That makes me feel better cmason. Thanks for the info. I thought it would be fine but it still makes me think the yeasties would have been happier (maybe even more productive) with better stirring. Its a learning process and I'm having fun learning.


----------



## LoneStarLori

You're doing great and almost home. That's a nice slow ferment andI bet it's going to be really flavorful.
When I say you won't have a cap, I mean that the fruit will be mostly consumed and not be nearly what is was to start with. It won't disappear completely. Some would rack it now and others wait until its fully dry. ( <1.00 ). I'm in the wait till it's dry camp.


----------



## StoneCreek

Thanks Lori. I do plan on waiting until its dry and stable before racking as per Dave's instructions. I'll probably be removing the fruit bag tomorrow and giving it its last stir for a few days.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Going from a cap to fizzing is normal....Actually the fizzing is when its going into the second ferment...Now if you had that in a carboy it would be called the second phase of fermentation.
When it gets to that stage (in a bucket) you have about 3 days left before it is complete.
When it gets to that stage in carboy with air lock, you have about 10 days before its done.
I have had a ferment go from cap to fizz in 3 days.
Dont stir with drill again...you will have a big mess on your hands.
Let it finish out.


----------



## StoneCreek

Thanks For the good information James. Would most fruit wines benefit by going into the carboy during the second fermentation?


----------



## Deezil

StoneCreek said:


> Would most fruit wines benefit by going into the carboy during the second fermentation?



Read through this post, and it should help to better understand the relationship between yeast's primary & secondary fermentations, how it relates to primary and secondary fermentation vessels, and a general idea on when, what types/styles of wines need to be racked.

If you need any further explanation, dont be scared to ask.. I just didn't want to re-type all that


----------



## jamesngalveston

as deezil said read the article, and make the choice based what you are makeing.

I make nothing but db type wines..I ferment to dry in the primary, Unless I am making a port.

Not advising , just saying


----------



## StoneCreek

Thanks Manley. Just finished all five pages and it did explain alot. Your explanation was very informative.


----------



## ckvchestnut

You've already got your answers but I had to chine in: isn't it fun? I'm hooked and just on my 2nd batch the smell is almost addictive! Mines in the primary as we speak too last SG reading was 1.050


----------



## springpatch

Starting my first batch today. Only had a 6.5 gallon so I have to make some adjustments. Either way I am pitching a starter I made from apple juice (worked great for Skeeter Pee). Question will this produce a light fermentation, not likely to need a lid? I ask because I just set my lid on top, but not sealed it seeing as I need to check this every day.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have made a couple dragon bloods, i never put a lid on it, i use a paint strainer bag secuered with a large rubber band.
Your 6.5 will end up about 5 gallons when your completely done.


----------



## LoneStarLori

I use a flour sack dish towel secured with a piece of elastic on all of my primaries. Works just fine and smells great. Here's a bucket I started this morning. The rolling plant stand on the bottom comes in pretty handy when it's time to rack.


----------



## cintipam

Lori, thanks for the pic. My bucket is on a stand just like yours, but I didn't use any shelf liner. I've noticed the bucket slipping every now and then when i move to where I need it to rack to secondary. Great idea!

Pam in cinti


----------



## jamesngalveston

omg, day one and not one stain on the towel...I can never do that...and torwards the end,,,i dont even touch it...LOL


----------



## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> omg, day one and not one stain on the towel...I can never do that...and torwards the end,,,i dont even touch it...LOL



Yea, well. Let's see how it looks on day 6. The fat lady hasn't sang yet.


----------



## Elmer

I have always just swipped my wife's dish/hand towels out of the kitchen.
She kind of got pissed when I turned the fancy one purple!!!!

now I just use the fancy purple one!


----------



## jamesngalveston

omg elmer...thats some heavy theft.....thats like washing her clothes and turning her black bra, spotted white with bleach.....lol


----------



## kryptonitewine

I use the bucket lid but don't snap it down. I put a dish towel over the hole.


----------



## cintipam

Try reminding her that purple used to be a color only flaunted by royalty. Then again, maybe not.

Pam in cinti


----------



## datcv

Mah first batch! 

This one is just a mini batch to start with. I used 1/5th of all the ingredients (tannin, nutrients, etc.) but I used cara cara orange juice instead of lemon juice and I ~doubled the berries (40 oz of quad berry).

I will do a bigger batch once I get my 3 gallon carboy free.

-David


----------



## LoneStarLori

datcv said:


> Mah first batch!
> 
> This one is just a mini batch to start with. I used 1/5th of all the ingredients (tannin, nutrients, etc.) but I used cara cara orange juice instead of lemon juice and I ~doubled the berries (40 oz of quad berry).
> 
> I will do a bigger batch once I get my 3 gallon carboy free.
> 
> -David



OMG,, ain't she purdy? I can smell it from here. 
That should be a great combination of flavors.


----------



## Winenoob66

Everyone keeps saying how good DB smells as it is fermenting but I am at 1.024 now on day 4 and still all I smell is yeast mostly, with a berry background. And the Alc of course. I get the fizzies when I stir it. lol i left all the ingred the same but I cut it down to a 5.5 gal batch. ( Only have a 6.5 gal primary container.)


----------



## barbl72

Just spent the past few hours going over this thread. I will start my first DB on Sunday and can't wait! I can only find triple berry blend of blueberry, raspberry and strawberry and am worried about the strawberries disintegrating. FYI Dave, I was born in Chillicothe and graduated from CHS... small world!


----------



## jamesngalveston

if they are not frozen, freeze them, the thaw we u get ready to start the db..freezing actually helps break them down in the ferment..
good luck....i think you will love the way db taste and looks...most that make it love it..


----------



## StoneCreek

barbl72 said:


> Just spent the past few hours going over this thread. I will start my first DB on Sunday and can't wait! I can only find triple berry blend of blueberry, raspberry and strawberry and am worried about the strawberries disintegrating. FYI Dave, I was born in Chillicothe and graduated from CHS... small world!



Your fruit will disappear. It is recommended that you use a fine nylon mesh bag for your fruit. All that was left of mine was a hand full of strawberry and blackberry seeds along with a few blueberry skins that didn't beak down.


----------



## Elmer

jamesngalveston said:


> if they are not frozen, freeze them, the thaw we u get ready to start the db..freezing actually helps break them down in the ferment..
> good luck....i think you will love the way db taste and looks...most that make it love it..



I tend to add them frozen.
Out of the freezer, weigh, wash, rinse
bag it -tag -it sell it to the butcher in the store!

I use a brew belt and heavy blankets and let sit for a day.
usually works!


----------



## dangerdave

You guys and gals are all doing great! I firmly agree with all of the excellent advice given by our resident DB experts. What a great goup!

barbl72: I was born and raised in and around Chillicothe. I have worked for the Chillicothe fire department for 27 years. Graduated from ZT in '81. Man, I'm getting old!


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

I have a quick question, which may have been answered within the 25 pages already, forgive me. When starting everything, but before pitching yeast, I noticed in the directions that there were no camden tablets used. Did I overlook something or should I or not use about 5 crushed & dissolved tablets 12-24 hours before pitching yeast?

Thanks,


----------



## dangerdave

Welcome to the forum, two-dawgs!  <pardon my laughter, it's an old joke> Anyways, yes, that's been answered, like, a million times. One more time never hurts!

If you are using bagged frozen fruit from the store, no sulfite is required in the must. Fresh picked fruit is another matter.


----------



## Winenoob66

Hi yesterday I checked my SG and got a 1.024, today I pulled out the fruit and squeezed it dry like I have done everyday and gave the must a much gentler stir being I know the sg is getting very low (careful not to introduce oxygen into it today) and when I took the SG it is at 1.000 so I discarded fruit. But I did not rack to secondary being I had stirred it tomorrow I will do the secondary racking.

But my question is this I had copied the recipe down awhile back and now I notice the Potasium Metabisulphie is now dropped to 1/4 tsp per 6 gall batch from 1tsp. As I am using camden tables does that mean instead of using 1 per gallon I just use 1 period ?


----------



## dangerdave

That was a clerical error on my part. Just use one. The current verion also has some minor proceedural changes, I believe. Good luck! You're almost there!


----------



## barbl72

Happy Girl Here! I have 6 gallons of Pinot Noir to bottle next Sunday, started 6 gallons of Dragon Blood today, two gallons of Dandelion almost ready and one gallon plus almost a bottle of Black Raspberry. Little Ole' Wine Makin' Me!
The Dragons Blood looks and smells great! Thanks for everyone's input on this thread - it helps me in my new obsession!


----------



## keahunter

This may be a silly question but, I have a batch of DB that has been clearing for a week. I did what I thought was a thorough job degassing but still notice a slight ring of bubbles around the top of the carboy. My question, when I rack to the next carboy to backsweeten, is it ok to degass again?


----------



## jamesngalveston

yes....
how are you degassing...vacuum pump, drill, etc.


----------



## keahunter

I degassed with the drill


----------



## jamesngalveston

you can degass up until you want to bottle...at least I do.
not advising just saying


----------



## PoppaCork

DB, Mango variation questions. 

We were at Jungle Jim's last weekend and I found that they have frozen mango chunks,(from Mexico) so I bought 15 lbs. There is no visible juice in the bags.(the bag says some juice will appear as fruit melts)

I was going to follow the DB recipe and use only mangos.(and a couple banana's) 

1) Do you think this will be enough fruit for a 6 - gallon batch?(at ~ 15% abv) Or do I need more fruit, or some concentrated juice to add?

2) I always use 3 tsp. of acid blend instead of Real Lemon. Should this be enough?

3) Because this is my first light colored wine,(other that a kit) any other suggestions/tweaks/considerations? 

I searched the forum but could only find mango's used in conjunction with other fruits using the DB method.

I am very pleased with the Triple Berry and the Blueberry I have made, both are great!


----------



## LoneStarLori

I have come to the conclusion that mine re-started fermenting after I back sweetened. After being un bottled for almost two weeks, I am still dropping sediment. I must have back sweetened more than I thought because the SG is slowly dropping. Today it's down to .106. Down from 1.08 last week. I will say that the flavor is much better to me. It now smells and taste like berries. I don't know if it's because it has aged about 3 months now, or if it is just finishing up. I'm going to let it do it's thing as long as it wants and even though it will be drier than I was among for, it's going to taste better to me. 
As long as it's ready by beach season in May, that works for me.


----------



## oreoman

I am going to make my first batch. Do I stick with basic or double the fruit? I want flavor. Also is there a forum of just the DB recipe variations with not a lot of other talking? Did find and read through several different forums in the DB. Excited to start.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Poppacork....mango is very light on flavor...did two batches last year.
that is mango db...one 6 gallon was made with 50 lbs which was very good, the other was a 3 gallon using 30 lbs..it was better.


----------



## dangerdave

Yea, it's tough to squeeze much mango flavor out of just a few mangos. Like James said, it takes a lot! Or, you can do what I did and use some mango extract or flavoring to boost the taste.

oreoman: This is as close as you'll get to a dedicated DB thread. Most of the variations involve using different fruit or fruit combinations. Not much else changes. If you got the pfd file attached to the OP of this thread, then you've just about read it all. Sorry about all the superfluous chatter, but it just comes along with the nature of any forum.

As far as the amount of fruit goes, it's up to you. I find that the original recipe has plenty of fruit flavor. Some like theirs a bit fuller. The only way you'll know which you are is to make two batches. Try the original first, I'd suggest. If you think it's too light, double the fruit.


----------



## PoppaCork

So I need another 45 lbs to make 6 - gallons? 

Good thing they are frozen. I am going to have to save up a while for that. 
60 lbs. at $5.88 for 2.5 lbs. = $141.88! 

Thanks for the reply james. 
I knew that it had a light flavor, but I didn't realize it took that much fruit to bring it out. You just saved me from making a mistake.


----------



## jamesngalveston

well i have never made a mistake...roflmao..
it seems as i said before...the lighter the color the fruit, the more it takes to get the flavor.
as in peach,mango,fig,cantaloupe,pear,apples.


----------



## oreoman

Thanks dangerdave!! Can't wait to start.


----------



## Winenoob66

Mines been on sparkloid for 3 days today and I am crystal clear 9 days into starting total. I still have to use the sorbate and then backsweeten in a few more days but everything is going good. I tried what James was saying and let the wine clear before using the sorbate. And all I got to say about DB at this point is that has got to be the prettiest color of red I have seen. I still haven't tasted it but if it is as good as it looks then I will diffently be hooked. 

Start date 1/5/14


----------



## datcv

Well that fermented pretty quickly-- today it's under 1.0. Took out the nylon bag which was basically empty except for some small shreds of berry crud. It's still bubbling so I am going to give it a few more days to finish fermenting and settling down before I rack and degas. It's really not red though-- more like a bright neon pink (maybe from the added strawberries?).


----------



## Loxalibations

I am VERY new to this and attempting DDB; my plan for the extra (after topping off) is to measure what is left then make just enough white grape must to finish a gallon, adjust the SG and then blend the two for a gallon of lighter blush wine.


----------



## Simpsini

Dave - Thanks for putting the DB recipe out on the forum. I've gone over the 27 pages on this thread and I think I've got it (LOL). I've been making kits for the past 2 years and I'm ready to branch out. I plan on starting this soon, but will begin with a 3 Gal batch. I'm going to take your advice and back sweeten it with 1/2 cups of sugar per gallon. Our Costco carries the Triple Berry Blend in 48oz bags. I'll post my results soon.


----------



## barbl72

DB is going great guns! How many days will it take to get to <1.000? (step 3 in the instructions?)


----------



## jamesngalveston

barb, that depends on what yeast your using, what your sg was after adding sugar, etc.
it should not take more then 5 to 8 at least for me, some times it takes less.


----------



## Winenoob66

Mine went 5 days to .090 from 1.090


----------



## PoppaCork

I am in the process of a 12 gallon batch of DB that I used double the fruit in. That was 24 lbs. of frozen Triple Berry. 

The SG just dropped below 1.0 and after removing the fruit bag and squeezing all the juice out I decided to weigh the remainder, and ended up with just 4.29 lbs. of seeds/skins & whatever out of 24 lbs. 

I just found that interesting and thought others might too.

The lesson I will take from this is, it is _VERY _difficult to squeeze 24 lbs. of fruit in a single bag! 
I will always from this point on use no more than 8 lbs. in one bag. Just sayin'.


----------



## StoneCreek

Wow. All these quick ferments. Mine took 12 days to go from 1.090 to .992


----------



## Elmer

Does anyone Oak thier DB?
I have a new bag of Heavy American Oak 2 g.

I also have a American White Oak Barrel and I am really, really tempted to run it the through the barrel for a few weeks.

but my fear is Getting 5 gallons of over oaked DB!


----------



## Winenoob66

From what I have gathered so far on the forums:

The warmer the temperature, the faster the primary fermenting time, But with that being said the faster the ferment the hotter the taste, the cooler the ferment the slower the ferment in primary and results in a fruitier flavor.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Elmer I think dave is playing with some oaking now....not sure.
I have not oaked anything, other then my smoker...


----------



## dangerdave

I tried some oak last year. I think it was meduim toasted French. As an early drinker, the tart fruitness of the DB seemed to trump the oak. I have not tried it again. Like I always say, every time I try something new with the DB, my wife clammers for the original. I do have some untoasted American oak on hand. Maybe I should try to over-oak a batch and see if it is possible.

Give it a shot, Elmer. Let us know how it goes. I'm getting ready to start a new batch, so I may join in the oakiness.


----------



## buffalofrenchy

New here. This looks great. I plan on making it by next month. How long of bottle aging before drinking? I think I read okay right away but 3 month is recommended. What do users think?


----------



## dangerdave

It's very good right away. Better after a week or two in the bottle. Seems to drop off after about six months.

People have different tastes. You'll have to space it out to see when you like it best---after the first batch, that is. The first one will pull a Houdini on you!


----------



## Johngottshall

Has anyone put 9lbs fruit for 6 gal.batch


----------



## jamesngalveston

6 mos...are you kidding me....i have not had any last more then three....
you a slow drinker dave, my friend.

John I have tried 9 12 16 18 20 24 for 3 and 6 gallon batches.
my favorite is 18 lbs for 3 gallons.


----------



## Johngottshall

jamesngalveston said:


> 6 mos...are you kidding me....i have not had any last more then three....
> you a slow drinker dave, my friend.
> 
> John I have tried 9 12 16 18 20 24 for 3 and 6 gallon batches.
> my favorite is 18 lbs for 3 gallons.



OK thanks james


----------



## dangerdave

I hide an occasional bottle for posterity. 

I had a 1.5 liter bottle that was in my wall wine display and had become more of a decoration than anything. It was around a year old. I decided it needed to get drunk, so I popped it. The taste had journeyed so far beyond what I recognized as DB that I really didn't care for it much.

Drank it? Yes.


----------



## Elmer

I have taken a month of from drinking, so I still have 6 bottles of DB that were bottled in June or July.
Last time I had one was in December and the flavors had really come forward on them.
I intend to drink them when the warmer weather approaches!

I am going to make another batch soon to allow a few months to age!


----------



## Simpsini

jamesngalveston said:


> 6 mos...are you kidding me....i have not had any last more then three....
> you a slow drinker dave, my friend.
> 
> John I have tried 9 12 16 18 20 24 for 3 and 6 gallon batches.
> my favorite is 18 lbs for 3 gallons.



James --- Am I reading this correctly? Are you saying that you put in 18 lbs of Triple Berry Blend for 3 Gallons when the original DB recipe calls for 6 lbs for 6 Gallons? I’m just learning and want to keep this in mind for future reference. Does that affect your sugar per gallon on the backsweeting?


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have made db just about every way you can even imagine.
and yes..i added 18 lbs of fruit for a 3 gallon batch...the lemon juice balanced it out very nicely...
I like a really fruity wine...Seriously though...every batch I have made is gone...
I like the odb...original dragon blood..but i like it better with double the fruit..
just me.


----------



## Johngottshall

Started my first batch of this tonight a 6 gallon batch using 9 lbs of the triple berry from Sam's club going to use K1-V1116 lalvin yeast supposed to be best suited for fruit and berries we will see. Here are a few pics


----------



## ckvchestnut

I'm doing a 6 gal batch right now that has at least 9lbs of fruit... I'll see if it's more fruity than the last batch after it's ready to drink... Cuz I'm a lover of saving money so if it really takes less I'll buy less 

Oh ya and I use a pair of queen sized nylons and I'm left with nothing but seeds at the end...


----------



## dangerdave

You just want to drink it, don't you, John!


----------



## buffalofrenchy

Johngottshall said:


> Started my first batch of this tonight a 6 gallon batch using 9 lbs of the triple berry from Sam's club going to use K1-V1116 lalvin yeast supposed to be best suited for fruit and berries we will see. Here are a few pics



Looks good. I m interested in hearing about 6 vs 9 lbs...


----------



## Winenoob66

I just used the 6lbs of fruit like the recipe called for but only made it a 5 gallon batch opposed to the 6 gallon in the original recipe.


----------



## Johngottshall

dangerdave said:


> You just want to drink it, don't you, John!



Lol yep the smell is awesome I hope it stays that way once I pitch the yeast.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Johngottshall said:


> Lol yep the smell is awesome I hope it stays that way once I pitch the yeast.




It will  sooo good!


----------



## boozehound

By first batch I did was 6 gal batch. I backed sweetened 3 gals with 1/2 cup sugar per gal. The other 3 I did 1 cup per gal. We like sweet and the 1 cup was perfect for us. U cud defiantly tell the difference. It was at 1.12 sg if I recall right. Love this stuff!!!


----------



## jamesngalveston

db in the buckets:
6 gallon white grape peach
6 gallon mustang grape end of mustang grape hoard.
3 gallon black and blue
3 gallon srawberry/blackberry....end of blackberry hoard.
6 gallon Original.
for summer stock...
none get opened till I start up my pool....


----------



## dangerdave

jamesngalveston said:


> none get opened till I start up my pool....


 
Yea, right!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Well, it was a nice thought...lol


----------



## JetJockey

jamesngalveston said:


> Well, it was a nice thought...lol



James,
That can be a New Years Resolution! You'll be like the rest of us then when you open a bottle in a month or so.


----------



## buckhorn

jamesngalveston said:


> db in the buckets:
> 6 gallon white grape peach
> 6 gallon mustang grape end of mustang grape hoard.
> 3 gallon black and blue
> 3 gallon srawberry/blackberry....end of blackberry hoard.
> 6 gallon Original.
> for summer stock...
> none get opened till I start up my pool....





dangerdave said:


> Yea, right!



Might be the only pool in TX opened in February


----------



## fabrictodyefor

jamesngalveston;
none get opened till I start up my pool....[/QUOTE said:


> aren't pools open all the time in South TX?


----------



## jamesngalveston

heck know temp is 59 degrees...too cold for me.
may1st i open
oct 31 I close it.


----------



## Winenoob66

lol no one said ya had to actually get in it James.


----------



## jamesngalveston

making all that db...i am trying to get all my carboys empty.
if i can get them all empty..then in april i can make about 90 gallons of blackberry, db,port and set them to age.


----------



## Winenoob66

sounds like a plan to me


----------



## datcv

I racked a gallon and a half with the sulfites and sparkalloid after stirring pretty intensely for 10 minutes (I hope that was enough to degas?).

It tasted a little rough and yeasty but had a good subtle berry flavor.


----------



## Johngottshall

Three hours after pitching yeast fermentation going strong


----------



## keahunter

I started my batch on 12/28 and I just backsweetened this morning...oh boy, I can tell this is going to be dangerous! SWMBO is going to love this. I fear I'll never have an empty carboy again! Thanks Dave!


----------



## datcv

Starting my second batch of fruit wine using the DB recipe. This one is trash can wine-- I used the 2 bags of apple cores (the apples smelled amazing... Mostly Fuji) I had leftover from cider making as well as a bunch of misc bags and half bags of fruit that were in my freezer. Quad berry, mango chunks, pineapple chunks, a few peach slices, a banana, and some lime juice. I have no intention of ever repeating this recipe I just want to see what happens.


----------



## Winenoob66

lol and because ya have no idea how much of everything you put into it . It will probably be the best ya ever make.


----------



## datcv

Haha, yeah that's probably true. I'm just glad to have space in my freezer back!


----------



## tkmorgan

datcv said:


> Starting my second batch of fruit wine using the DB recipe. This one is trash can wine-- I used the 2 bags of apple cores (the apples smelled amazing... Mostly Fuji) I had leftover from cider making as well as a bunch of misc bags and half bags of fruit that were in my freezer. Quad berry, mango chunks, pineapple chunks, a few peach slices, a banana, and some lime juice. I have no intention of ever repeating this recipe I just want to see what happens.



Call me low class, but I sometimes make freezer berry wine...whenever store bought fruit (mostly strawberries or blueberries) stay in the fridge too long, we freeze them, until we have enough to make something...I wouldn't call it db, because it's really just random stuff thrown together in an ad-hoc fashion.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I'll be racking to carboy today... This is going to be good stuff! Still has a very strong fruit flavour!


----------



## dangerdave

What a great bunch of winemakers! You all inspire me!


----------



## Johngottshall

Squeezed the bags today and stirred the must took all the readings fermenting quite well. Went from 1.087 on Friday to 1.040 today here is a pic.


----------



## GreginND

I opened a bottle of my Blue Blood today. This is now 1 year old (started 1/9/2013). I am delighted I waited. 6 months ago this was disjointed with the lemon juice still being quite harsh and out of balance. It has mellowed to a nice balanced beverage with subtle blueberry and lemon that seems to be in perfect harmony. And the color is exquisite.


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, very nice, Greg. I have made the blueberry, and it does come around nicely with time. I don't know why the blueberry acts differently on it's own. I've got some more of that to bottle this week. 

John, that must looks perfect. I'ts gonna be good!


----------



## Johngottshall

Thanks Dave


----------



## dangerdave

FYI---in case you didn't see it elsewhere---I finally got my pH meter. The original recipe DB (with 48oz of lemon juice and six pounds of fuit) came out to pH 3.07. I'm not sure I'd want to go any lower than that.


----------



## PAFruitWines

Just finished reading this thread. Lots of good info. My first batch following this recipe is at 1.01 today. Just about there. Reading all of this I can't wait 4 it to B done. Especially since I'm drinking white zin out of a box. lol. 

Dave was the two dogs reference about Baby names? LMAO.


----------



## dangerdave

Ah, you picked up on that, huh?  I'm bad sometimes.


----------



## Johngottshall

OK stirred tonight SG down to 1.024 from 1.087 on Friday so chugging right along here is a pic from tonight


----------



## dangerdave

Looking good, John. Right on schedule.


----------



## Winenoob66

I back sweetened mine 2 days ago and still have no activity in the airlock so I am gonna bottle tomorrow if everything stays the same.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Anyone cleared DB without any clearing agent at all? I was preparing the last of my sparkolloid on the stove today and forgot about it! After a long time I said to myself: "what's that burning smell??" It was burned dry and black lol

Does DB take the same amount of time to clear as grape wines? Not sure I want to wait 1 or more months to clear this batch.

I do have this clearing package from an old kit but have no idea how to use it... Don't know of the sodium silicate is part of this clearing pkg. but the only instructions are to use pkg 4 (super wine clear) 48 hours after pkg 3 as per pic below. Am I just better off to go to the store and pick up more stuff that doesn't come from a kit?


----------



## Winenoob66

If that is old I wouldn't take a chance. I would go get more sparkloid. Better safe than sorry is my motto.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya that's pretty much mine too! Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## boozehound

Question....can a person put together the 'tannin, nutrient, energizer, and enzyme' all at once and than stir? Same with the potassiums can they be combined together? Was just thinking of putting a bunch of premade batches together for making in the future. Or is it that important that they need to be put in one at a time? 

Thanks bzh


----------



## Winenoob66

In the early stages you want a lot of stirring to get as much oxygen in it as you can. So i am guessing that's why Dave wrote it out like that to help you get more into it.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I would not use the old chemicals...I would use super kleer, over the sparkoloid...for me super kleer works much much better.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya it's on my shopping list James! I've heard great things about it. And you don't have to boil it right? One less hassle...


----------



## jamesngalveston

no boiling is required...correct


----------



## Simpsini

I'm not a big fan of sweet wines. Has anyone made the DB without back sweetening it? I was thinking about pulling off a Gallon & not adding any sugar after it's cleared and then age that for a month and see how it drinks.


----------



## ckvchestnut

James: Seems worth the price in convenience to me... 

Simpsini: I barely back sweeten mine. I like my stuff dry... I backsweetened my last batch to 1.002 and it was a tad sweeter for my liking over my previous bench test number of 1.000. BUT! This grew on me like crazy! I didn't mind the sweetness at all and came to be very used to it. I'm also going to go with slightly less sweetening again with this batch to see how I like it... May shoot for .995 or .998

Was looking at those 20 gal brute cans at Home Depot so I can at least start making 12 gal batches instead of 6. It goes too fast. Not sure if the 20 gal would have enough room to do 18gals with the fruit and all. They also have convenient trolleys for these larger cans.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I backsweeten all my db, because i finnish it off at about 15 are 16 %abv.
Pretty strong with that high of abv., but it is good with a little sweetness added to it.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> I backsweeten all my db, because i finnish it off at about 15 are 16 %abv.
> Pretty strong with that high of abv., but it is good with a little sweetness added to it.




James which yeast do u use again to finish off with the higher abv on the DB? I used EC-1118 but it was past it's due date. My OG shot up to 1.200 with all that fruit and despite stirring twice a day and adding my yeast nutrient every 2nd day it pretty much stopped at 1.000 on the dot. So it's in the carboy now and I'm not in a rush to bottle but I think if it doesn't go any drier, I'll take the route of sorbating and k-meta to keep it from starting up in the bottle. However I'm not too worried as I now have family members bringing me all these empty bottles wanting me to make them batches it goes too fast. If my next batch goes perfectly smooth, then I'll keep some bottles aside for 6 months...


----------



## JetJockey

Simpsini said:


> I'm not a big fan of sweet wines. Has anyone made the DB without back sweetening it? I was thinking about pulling off a Gallon & not adding any sugar after it's cleared and then age that for a month and see how it drinks.



I prefer dry wines, but it seems like a lot of my friends like off dry. I've cut the batch in half and made 1/2 at SG 1.10 and added very little to the other half. I found that a little sugar brings out the berry flavor more.

My current batch is fermenting now. I started at SG 1.10 to get about 14% ABV. I used EC-1118 which is good up to 18%. I'll back sweeten slightly with James fruit/simple syrup mix, but I'll keep it almost dry.


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> I prefer dry wines, but it seems like a lot of my friends like off dry. I've cut the batch in half and made 1/2 at SG 1.10 and added very little to the other half. I found that a little sugar brings out the berry flavor more.




Were you using the called for amt of fruit or more? This is now my 2nd batch and I used more in both and I find I get a very heavy fruit flavor in both no matter what the SG.


----------



## JetJockey

I had 9 3/4# of blueberries for a 5 gallon batch. I saved about 4 cups of the berries to add at the end.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Btw James: Its between starting another batch of DB and your white grape peach this weekend and I think I'll be trying the wgp! My Dad's wife asked me to do a white version of the DB and yours seems to fit the bill... But I really like the idea of the blush with the added concord for color! Wondering what this one would be like sparkling! Read the other thread on the soda stream with great interest!


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> I had 9 3/4# of blueberries for a 5 gallon batch. I saved about 4 cups of the berries to add at the end.




Ah... Interesting so used a fair amount but it was just blueberries... And you even added some at the end. Has it been your experience that blueberries like certain other fruits don't carry as much flavor? I'm starting to wonder what's different about mine... The 2 differences in my DB batches are that it's quad berry so has strawberries in it and I add bananas. I do quad berry instead of triple berry because that's the only kind I can get at Walmart in the 1.75kg bags apart from other stuff like fruit blends and straight berries such as blueberries or strawberries. Maybe I just have sensitive taste buds!


----------



## sour_grapes

ckvchestnut said:


> My OG shot up to 1.200 with all that fruit and despite stirring twice a day and adding my yeast nutrient every 2nd day it pretty much stopped at 1.000 on the dot.



Really?? That would be about 26% ABV. Did you mean 1.120? (Which would be about 15.5%)


----------



## jamesngalveston

i use red star pasteur red, are red star premeier curvee


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Ah... Interesting so used a fair amount but it was just blueberries... And you even added some at the end. Has it been your experience that blueberries like certain other fruits don't carry as much flavor? I'm starting to wonder what's different about mine... The 2 differences in my DB batches are that it's quad berry so has strawberries in it and I add bananas. I do quad berry instead of triple berry because that's the only kind I can get at Walmart in the 1.75kg bags apart from other stuff like fruit blends and straight berries such as blueberries or strawberries. Maybe I just have sensitive taste buds!



This is my first batch of blueberry only. I had a friend give me the blue berries that they picked from their bushes. I froze them first and then used some kmeta before starting the DB. Currently I'm only in the 5th day of fermentation.


----------



## ckvchestnut

sour_grapes said:


> Really?? That would be about 26% ABV. Did you mean 1.120? (Which would be about 15.5%)




Oops yes you are correct! lol obviously if it doesn't go dry I won't have the 15.5% because it stopped at 1.000


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> This is my first batch of blueberry only. I had a friend give me the blue berries that they picked from their bushes. I froze them first and then used some kmeta before starting the DB. Currently I'm only in the 5th day of fermentation.




Hmmm sounds good! Let us know how it turns out! I'd also like to try the blueberry/blackberry combo... It sounds good from other people's feedback here!


----------



## Simpsini

Carolyn & Bob - Thanks for the info and the feedback. When I back sweeten I'm going to bring the SG up to 1.000 and see how it tastes.


----------



## jamesngalveston

if you started out at 1.120 and if finished at 1.000 that equals 16 percent.
dry as a bone, and if your yeast died out that quick..I bet the wine is excellent.
http://www.davesdreaded.com/homebrew-calculator/


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks for the link James! I have one already or refer back to my hydrometer instructions to make calcs based on cases like this... I was just too lazy to go look! And you made me look! At my instructions that is! You are right I course so why the heck have I always thought that .990 was dry as in 0?? Can someone kind of explain to me why .990 is actually a negative? I'd better go read up on that link! Time to be enlightened further!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Oh I just found it on my instructions because it's a negative you get a higher abv than what your OG reading says.... You add the amount from the - final SG reading! Ok lol me being a dumb nooby! Haha


----------



## dangerdave

In an attempt to create an "over-oaked" batch of DB, the one I have going now got three times the normal tannin and a whole cup of untoasted American oak in the primary. Johnna turned up her nose and said it "smells like a lumber mill in July"!

I may get this whole batch to myself! Woot!


----------



## ckvchestnut

From all your posts on your experiments I don't think you'll ever change your wife's preference for your original DB!


----------



## dangerdave

I know, Carolyn, bless her heart. I won't stop trying, though.


----------



## ckvchestnut

No need to stop trying! You know what keeps her happy and you can continue to experiment to your heart's content! I'm lucky my hubby will drink almost anything lol!


----------



## JetJockey

dangerdave said:


> I know, Carolyn, bless her heart. I won't stop trying, though.


Dave,
I look at it like this: the more times you make new variations and she turns her nose up, the MORE she will appreciate *you *when you make the Original DB! Kind of reverse psychology for DB. Of course, I may have deliberately screwed up an assigned chore or two so that it never made the Honey-do list again ;-)


----------



## jamesngalveston

LOL...i used some liguid smoke in a test batch once...after about 3 mos in the bottles, it was actually good.


----------



## JetJockey

James, I think you have tried it all! Was that American or French smoke and what kind of toast!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Too funny! I'll wager that it might have been hickory haha


----------



## jamesngalveston

just bought two of the new style carboys...called the big mouth bubbler.
going to use for dragon blood style only.
since i manuallly degass and have a transfer pump...no vacuum. for the pet.


----------



## JetJockey

jamesngalveston said:


> just bought two of the new style carboys...called the big mouth bubbler.



James,
I'm interested in your thoughts on the bubbler keeping in mind how to top up without narrow neck, how to connect the airlock, will a two holed stopper fit the lid (hole same size as regular carboy), etc. It looks like a great idea, especially because they should be easy to clean! Is the glass as thick as a regular Italian glass carboy (since I use a vacuum pump)?


----------



## jamesngalveston

dont know..just bought them, will probably get delivered next week.


----------



## JetJockey

James,
Please give us a review after you have had some experience with them. I'm interested since they appear to make so much sense and look a little shorter than the regular carboy. Thanks in advance!


----------



## jamesngalveston

will be happy too.....i saw them in winemaking magazine..and ordered from midwest...


----------



## barbl72

Oh my goodness this stuff is freaking *wonderful!* My first batch will be ready to bottle in a few days. I only added one cup of sugar to the entire carboy as I don't like sweet wine. FANTASTIC! I'm already planning on making another batch! Now I get the need for the 20 gallon trash can! Thanks for all the information and help on these pages. My wine making 'hobby' was already out of hand - now it's an obsession!


----------



## ckvchestnut

barbl72 said:


> Oh my goodness this stuff is freaking *wonderful!* My first batch will be ready to bottle in a few days. I only added one cup of sugar to the entire carboy as I don't like sweet wine. FANTASTIC! I'm already planning on making another batch! Now I get the need for the 20 gallon trash can! Thanks for all the information and help on these pages. My wine making 'hobby' was already out of hand - now it's an obsession!




Haha that's awesome Barb! I want that 20gal can too lol


----------



## barbl72

ckvchestnut said:


> Haha that's awesome Barb! I want that 20gal can too lol



Not ready for the 20 gallon yet - I do all in my kitchen. The carboy fits under my table - not sure the trash can would fit! LOL! I'll just make more batches. Like tomorrow.....


----------



## ckvchestnut

I do it all in my kitchen too right now it's a big kitchen tho, but it would be annoying looking at a 20gal can sitting on cinder blocks in the kitchen but at least primary fermentation only takes about a week.


----------



## Johngottshall

Day 2 at 1.000 so I should be ready to rack to carboy on Saturday.


----------



## PAFruitWines

This is my second day @ .99
I used Montrachet. Is that why so low?


----------



## ckvchestnut

No anything 1.000 or lower is normal. I am a newbie and I always thought it had to be .990 to be completely dry just because that's how all my previous wines fermented out. This time it stopped at 1.000 probably because I started at 1.120 and the yeasts were done at 1.000


----------



## Winenoob66

Just curious what does everyone back sweeten their DB to. I done mine to 1.002 and it is a little dry. But it was just bottled today so it is young I guess. I have already been told I need to make more. lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

It is so dependent on taste buds! I backsweetened my last batch to 1.002 and it was a tad sweet for us... I would say that based on our likings 1.000 at most... Maybe less and need more tests


----------



## dangerdave

Originally, mine came out at 1.010, but we (Johnna & I) have been trying to cut down on calories, so I've added less sugar to my last few batches. I haven't measured, but it should be around 1.007 or so. It's still very good (for us) that way.

This is a wine for the masses. Tailor it to your liking. It's all good!


----------



## freeze06

I'm doing my first batch of DB and on day 6 in the primary there is very little fruit left with a little crust. I started with 6 lbs of the quad berry fruit, I have a heater wrap holding around 76 degrees, and my last SG reading was 1.032. Should I be concerned that the fruit is almost gone? 

Thanks


----------



## JetJockey

Freeze,
I'm on day 7 and I started with about 9 1/2# of fruit. I use a large mesh bag and the bag and fruit (when squeezed out) are only about the size of a softball. It started out being closer to the size of a football and I can really feel the weight difference! I used fresh fruit so the fruit is disintegrating a little slower than when I used triple berry store bought fruit. I'd say its normal because when its done, you only have a few fruit husks and a lot of seeds! Let it go dry according to the recipe and you'll be fine. You probably only have 2-3 days until dry and then take the fruit out and leave it undisturbed until dry for 3 days.


----------



## Johngottshall

My batch has been at 1.000 for 3 days so racked to carboy today. It looks and smells fanfreakintastic. I used super kleer instead of the sparkaloid. Here are some pics


----------



## jamesngalveston

typically gorgeous db...good job john....man if you can let it age to may, it will be killer for the summer...but I would bet it will be gone.


----------



## ckvchestnut

That looks great John! Look what I've been up to today after I finished racking my concord port!


----------



## Johngottshall

ckvchestnut said:


> That looks great John! Look what I've been up to today after I finished racking my concord port!
> 
> View attachment 13293



Lol it looks great


----------



## Johngottshall

jamesngalveston said:


> typically gorgeous db...good job john....man if you can let it age to may, it will be killer for the summer...but I would bet it will be gone.



No I don't think it will last James my wife informed me last night that she invited a bunch of friends over next month for wine and food pairing with the wines that I have made so I'm sure it will be gone but just gives me more reason to make more wine do I guess its a win win.


----------



## jamesngalveston

chestnut, hows the port taste with out it being aged.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Very fruity! I'm surprised! It's in the secondary now. And I did use the combination of frozen grapes with the concentrate. What I find is it's a little hot obviously but really well balanced on the acidity easy to drink right now! But due to the way it turned out with the head space etc, I'm having to add the brandy in increments. I hope that's ok?

I'm topping of with the brandy at each racking basically. Here's what she looks like today. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't be mad at me because I promised to follow this to a t... But I couldn't help myself - I put 21 med toasted French oak cubes in it. I promise you will not be blamed if it doesn't turn out how you know it to be! Also I just added sparkolloid today so obviously not clear yet. I only had one pkg of super Kleer and since I'll be in more of a hurry with my DB I saved it for that.




Edit: and if it turns out every bit as good as I hope it will I'll send you a bottle if they let me ship it internationally! ;-)


----------



## dangerdave

Looks great John and Carolyn! Don't you just love that *color*!


----------



## datcv

I started this small batch maybe 20 days ago. It fermented in about 5 days and the sparkalloid cleared it in only a week so I went ahead and sweetened and bottled it. A hair over 1.000 tastes pretty good to me.

I imagine it will be really good in a few weeks. 

I have a three gallon batch of apple core frozen fruit trash can wine about done in the primary.


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> Looks great John and Carolyn! Don't you just love that *color*!




Love love love #love that colour!! I'm so gung-ho that I picked up 2 bags of blueberries and one bag of the quad berry do I could try that variation of the 2-1 ratio of blueberries and quad berry. I think I was afraid to try all blueberry so thought I'd transition to that soon. I can't wait to see the color on that one!


----------



## ckvchestnut

datcv said:


> I started this small batch maybe 20 days ago. It fermented in about 5 days and the sparkalloid cleared it in only a week so I went ahead and sweetened and bottled it. A hair over 1.000 tastes pretty good to me.
> 
> I imagine it will be really good in a few weeks.
> 
> I have a three gallon batch of apple core frozen fruit trash can wine about done in the primary.
> 
> View attachment 13296




Wow! Nice it never ceases to amaze me the color!


----------



## dangerdave

Carolyn, I bottled my blueberry version ("Jet Blue") just last week. I'll work up a picture for you. This time, I used an extra bag (3 lbs) of blueberries to soak in it after it had cleared. It came out really fruity. As we have discussed before, it seems to take the blueberry a little more time to "come around". A bottle of the last batch I made was absolutely excellent after a year.

datcv: What is this "small batch" you speak of? I'd have to make an aweful lot of those!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Dave, I apologize for the questions but was it all blueberry or a mix? How much fruit did you use at ferment and for how many gallons. I have 11.50 lbs of fruit for. 6 gal batch. I may add bananas as I honestly feel it does add to the mouthfeel and to soften acidity somewhat. Call me crazy. Gives a bit of a buttery feel. Did you use the fruit soak after stopping ferment? Thanks I appreciate your feedback! Love photos always is the blueberry like so dark you can't see through it?


----------



## ckvchestnut

I realize most people use more fruit and perhaps I'll use 5 bags instead of 3 but I'll definitely go out and get another bag within the next week.

And now that I want to start experimenting with oak may try some I the Hungarian or French oak I bought!


----------



## jamesngalveston

there is no end of the possibilities of dragon sang (sang) cajun for blood.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> there is no end of the possibilities of dragon sang (sang) cajun for blood.




Maybe that could be translated to Dragon's Song! Did you see my post on the port James?


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hmmm all this degassing is holding me back from the tropical and blueberry versions I wanted to start today... Had to help hubby rack the apple wine also it's his project so I forgot about it!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Yea I saw it, I hope its good with the oak, have not oaked any thing yet.
I want to concentrate on making everything better before I start adding ingredients...
Took me two years to make the perfect cream puff that I could stuff with a french creme, now..i can add other things to it, and its even better.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ah sorry James! I understand your approach! I do that with my work and riding but every once in awhile I throw something else in just to see what happens and I actually find that it benefits my learning curve. It's like a lottery - either I learn quickly from my mistakes or I hit the jackpot and get lucky with a shortcut or addition or tweak of some sort. I didn't mean to step on toes.... Really! I'm going to send you a bottle or else I'll be eating some crow!


----------



## ckvchestnut

James I apologize! I'm one of those ppl who sometimes can't leave well enough alone. I'll remove the oak and keep it for another batch of something...


----------



## jamesngalveston

you keep going girl, you can always make more later, just keep up with what you started....just have confidence in yourself and what you make...it may be excellent...probably will be.


----------



## ckvchestnut

James if we were neighbors we'd be good friends! Or not! Maybe you'd hate me! I'm a real relaxed kinda gal! Wine will be on the way IF it ends up worthy of your taste buds!


----------



## datcv

dangerdave said:


> datcv: What is this "small batch" you speak of? I'd have to make an aweful lot of those!



It's my first batch! I'm sure I will need to scale up soon.  I'm hoping to get some actual locally grown berries in the spring to make a batch with (I want to find some black raspberries). There is also an awesome peach orchard not far from here for some summer peach wine. And the Apple orchard up the hill for fall cider and apple wine making...

Luckily there are also a lot of wineries, cideries, and breweries near my house to supplement my home-brewed stuff with. Although the homebrew is much cheaper. 

If you're ever near central Virginia, I have some recommendations!


----------



## dangerdave

ckvchestnut said:


> Dave, I apologize for the questions but was it all blueberry or a mix? How much fruit did you use at ferment and for how many gallons. I have 11.50 lbs of fruit for. 6 gal batch. I may add bananas as I honestly feel it does add to the mouthfeel and to soften acidity somewhat. Call me crazy. Gives a bit of a buttery feel. Did you use the fruit soak after stopping ferment? Thanks I appreciate your feedback! Love photos always is the blueberry like so dark you can't see through it?


 
I have no problem with questions, Carolyn.

First, I fermented with 12 pounds of fruit in two bags. I think your 11.5 pounds will do fine along with the bananas. I have tried bananas before, in my Dragon Blood Especiale. My unsophisticated pallet couldn't tell the difference, but my wife---my inspiration---is not a fan of the "butteriness" of some wines. That was some time ago, so---inspired by you---I may revisit then once again.

After the wine was completely clear, I racked it off the Sparkolloid into a carboy where I had stuffed (literally, through a big funnel) three pounds of blueberried and their accompanying juices. I let it sit like that for a month, stirring it up once a week. In the end, the blueberries setteld out nicely. I then filtered and added a little bit of sugar for balance (it didn't need nearly as much as normal due to the flavor added by the extra blueberries).

It did come out darker red than the regular blueberry DB version, but it's still technically a "blush". Straight blueberry wine will use more like 5-6 pounds of fruit per gallon. Now that would be very dark!

You seem to be a very energetic and creative lady. I see many great DB versions in your future. Keep at it!


----------



## dangerdave

datcv said:


> It's my first batch! I'm sure I will need to scale up soon.  I'm hoping to get some actual locally grown berries in the spring to make a batch with (I want to find some black raspberries). There is also an awesome peach orchard not far from here for some summer peach wine. And the Apple orchard up the hill for fall cider and apple wine making...
> 
> Luckily there are also a lot of wineries, cideries, and breweries near my house to supplement my home-brewed stuff with. Although the homebrew is much cheaper.
> 
> If you're ever near central Virginia, I have some recommendations!


 
You are very lucky, indeed. Ohio was 7th in wine producing states in 2012, but you wouldn't know it in Chillicothe. There isn't a single wine related anything within an hour of my home. If I had more ambition, I'd open up this area to wine after I retired in five years. There would be no competition whatsoever. But that sounds like a lot of work and responsibility at a time in my life where I'm ready to relax and play.

Virginia is a beautiful state. My wife and I spent a week some years back in the Shenandoah Valley area visiting numerous vinyards there abouts. We still talk about that trip. We hope to do it again some day.


----------



## datcv

dangerdave said:


> Virginia is a beautiful state. My wife and I spent a week some years back in the Shenandoah Valley area visiting numerous vinyards there abouts. We still talk about that trip. We hope to do it again some day.




I have a beautiful drive to work over in the Shenandoah valley! The wine industry in this area has really taken off. I am not sure it will ever be able to scale up like California because of the humid summers but some of the vineyards around here are producing some pretty good stuff. They have to really baby those grape vines. Cider has also taken off in the last couple of years. I took some friends to a tasting at Albemarle cider works last weekend and I think they were impressed by how good cider can be when it is done well. I can't say that my first cider that I bottled measures up... But I'm going to work on that.


----------



## jamesngalveston

what are you talking about..what kind of riding, horse,surfboard,skateboard,jetski,, etc.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha! Well mainly horse riding! I love dressage - high school of horse training! Lol but my main passion is simply bonding with the magnificent animals!


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> I have no problem with questions, Carolyn.
> 
> First, I fermented with 12 pounds of fruit in two bags. I think your 11.5 pounds will do fine along with the bananas. I have tried bananas before, in my Dragon Blood Especiale. My unsophisticated pallet couldn't tell the difference, but my wife---my inspiration---is not a fan of the "butteriness" of some wines. That was some time ago, so---inspired by you---I may revisit then once again.
> 
> After the wine was completely clear, I racked it off the Sparkolloid into a carboy where I had stuffed (literally, through a big funnel) three pounds of blueberried and their accompanying juices. I let it sit like that for a month, stirring it up once a week. In the end, the blueberries setteld out nicely. I then filtered and added a little bit of sugar for balance (it didn't need nearly as much as normal due to the flavor added by the extra blueberries).
> 
> It did come out darker red than the regular blueberry DB version, but it's still technically a "blush". Straight blueberry wine will use more like 5-6 pounds of fruit per gallon. Now that would be very dark!
> 
> You seem to be a very energetic and creative lady. I see many great DB versions in your future. Keep at it!




Thanks again Dave... I'll be making sure my avg tests are inline and trying the fruit/sugar combo as per the DB instructions. This is just unreal that we could have something this accessible and so amazing thanks again to you and Lon!


----------



## JetJockey

Carolyn,
Excuse my ignorance, but what are avg tests? I'm familiar with PH, TA, SO2 tests, but not the term avg.

On that note, for people testing their DB, what are good targets for PH, TA, and SO2? I did see that Dave had used his new PH meter on his last batch of DB. My problem is that I don't know what to shoot for or an acceptable range.


----------



## ckvchestnut

When I said that - I meant when I go to try a new fruit that wasn't in Dave's recipe I would try to make sure my ta, ph and s02 would be in a healthy range or at least try to! I don't think there were any specific parameters for DB as I know Dave is not a tester per se. But I was apprehensive on working with a new fruit which I wasn't sure of what the outcome would be for brix, TA, ph and s02 would be - since it's not in the recipe. I am a newbie! But if I detect an imbalance of anything I'll be able to make changes if needed. I guess I was referring to the fact that I can't just put any fruit with any recipe and make a miracle happen lol


----------



## dangerdave

Like I've said, I'm more of a taster than a tester. More like an artist than a chemist. Not saying which is better. It's just how I learned.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree with dave, i taste, dont test. its dragon blood not a premier chilean malbec, we are using lemon juice, that throws a lot of test out of balance.
If i was spending 150 to 200 on juice and making a wine that would be aged for a few years, I would test and test. Not for dragon blood. Its meant to be a young drinker, lots of flavor,with a hint of lemon. Come oN.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Oh yes I should mention that I also don't test db we use so much water so it's not as important as if you are doing straight juice. I have only tested so far, when I'm making wine from my own grapes or elderberries. If I taste something that is way off then I go and get my at test kits out or ph strips. I don't have a fancy gadget - yet.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Not sure where to post this but check this out for color and clarity! Immediately after I put the sparkolloid in last night I got almost a half inch of sediment and it was clearing rapidly... This is what the port looks like this morning.

View attachment 13302


I think you can see one of the oak cubes that sank on the bottom right of the bottle. Does anyone know if oak cubes affect the overall color of the wine?


----------



## jamesngalveston

I bought this tester, Vinmetrica SC-300 SO2, pH & TA Analyzer Kit about 5 mos ago...I used it three times when making my blackberry wine.
All three times the results were about the same for so and ph....this was wild blackberries...after that I just put it in the corner, never use it anymore.
I am looking for a co2 tester for wine, thats all i am interested in.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Interesting lol I'm definitely not at the point where I can justify shelling out so much for that gadget...


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

I think I have messed up my first batch of DB. I used pineapple juice instead of the lemon juice as I was looking for a tropical berry wine for spring time. Yesterday I racked from the fermenter into the carboy to add my clarifier (Superkleer). As I was finishing the final pouch of superkleer and mixing well and I tasted the remaining juice from the spoon it had a sour (spoiled) taste to it. The kind when fruit goes bad and has that sour taste to it. Do you think this will fade away in a short time or is it just a spoiled batch? 

I really wanted this to turn out great, but is my first time making a fruit wine? I have been beer brewing for almost 2 years now, so I'm used to sanitizing everything.


----------



## ckvchestnut

It may not be a spoiling issue... I find some fruit stinks like barf when it's fermenting. Sometimes my apple wine stinks like that and it seems sour early on. So it could be just that it's young... However, it could also be a c02 issue? Did you degas THOROUGHLY prior to adding the super Kleer?


----------



## ckvchestnut

And I just bought 2 large cans of pineapple juice to add to my tropical variation that I'm making today. How much pineapple did you use?


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

I have degassed a great bit prior to the clarifier and when adding the clarifier I stirred a good bit also the get it mixed well and to try to degass a little more.

I used a large can of pineapple juice, 45oz I think it was. I have heard a few bad things about using pineapple juice, like it sours. I find this out after the fact.


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Not sure where to post this but check this out for color and clarity! Immediately after I put the sparkolloid in last night I got almost a half inch of sediment and it was clearing rapidly... This is what the port looks like this morning.
> 
> View attachment 13302
> 
> 
> I think you can see one of the oak cubes that sank on the bottom right of the bottle. Does anyone know if oak cubes affect the overall color of the wine?



Carolyn,
I can't open the attachment. It said file not found.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have made a pineapple dragon blood using 25 large cans of pineapple juice and I have made the tropical version using pineapple, it did not smell very good while making, taste was ok...after clearing and bottling and about 6 mos of aging it was very good...kinda of an earthy taste but good.


----------



## ckvchestnut

what did you use to degas it with? Did you read the thread on tropical daze variation of DB? it seems to me that people had luck using pineapple juice but it was different fruit, not the triple berry. Is it clearing without a problem and was it the same SG reading for at least 3 consecutive days? what did it taste like before - was it always sour? You didn't use any more pineapple juice than the called for amount of lemon juice, so I really don't think it's a sour - gone bad issue unless somehow something got contaminated.


----------



## JetJockey

twoyappydawgsbrewery said:


> I have degassed a great bit prior to the clarifier and when adding the clarifier I stirred a good bit also the get it mixed well and to try to degass a little more.
> 
> I used a large can of pineapple juice, 45oz I think it was. I have heard a few bad things about using pineapple juice, like it sours. I find this out after the fact.



One way to check for CO2 is to take a small glass like a shot glass or jigger glass and put some of the wine in it. Cover the glass with your hand and shake the glass vigorously. Listen to the glass as you take your hand off. If it puffs or sprays, there is probably CO2 left to get out.


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> Carolyn,
> I can't open the attachment. It said file not found.



Sorry Bob! I had been trying to change the photo from my app on my phone and I deleted but then couldn't upload the new one. I caught another cube falling so I wanted to post this pic instead. This is going to be brilliant when it's done!


----------



## JetJockey

Carolyn,
That looks good! What ABV do you expect? I thought about adding some medium toast oak to my all blueberry that's fermenting. I never used oak before and I have some chips - not cubes.


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

I degassed with my spoon as the directions indicated during the fermentation process. Also while the transfer occurred, it got a good bit of agitation to dislodge the co2. It has always had an sour smell during the fermentation but the taste was OK at the first couple days. Really didn't taste after that point. It cleared out really well. I need to rack it again to get off the settlement. Will taste it and also do the shot glass test to see if any more co2 is present.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hi Bob, I really don't wan to hijack this thread as it's really about DB... this is my concord port, so the finishing abv prior to my adding brandy was 17.3% lol I'm shooting for about 20%. This one will be a sipping wine, my Dad loves port, so I'll be giving this as a gift if it turns out nice enough! This is my first time using oak. There is a good sticky on how to use it and when to use it, in the oak section. Also there is a thread called dragon port that Dave started, hopefully he'll give us an update on how that's tasting soon. Yup I might oak my blueberry one I'm doing soon. I'll have to see how this turns out, as I'm a newbie to oaking. So I'll be tasting every 2 weeks or so, so that I can avoid over oaking if possible!


----------



## JetJockey

I always like the shot glass puff test because I get to do shots "For testing purposes only"! Sometimes I just have to double and triple check!


----------



## ckvchestnut

twoyappydawgsbrewery said:


> I degassed with my spoon as the directions indicated during the fermentation process. Also while the transfer occurred, it got a good bit of agitation to dislodge the co2. It has always had an sour smell during the fermentation but the taste was OK at the first couple days. Really didn't taste after that point. It cleared out really well. I need to rack it again to get off the settlement. Will taste it and also do the shot glass test to see if any more co2 is present.



Ya I would leave it in the carboy longer, but make sure it's filled to the neck and give it some more time and rackings to see if the taste will improve. Like do a splash racking allow the wine to splash down while racking next time? Also, I have a degassing rod only - no fancy pumps or anything, it's an attachment to put on a drill and I will say this - I had no problems degassing my last batch of DB but last day/night I was degassing forever and it's still foamy! I'm going to have to degas quite a bit more before I can put my clearing agent in. I'm wondering if it's because of the fact that this batch is much higher alcohol.


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

Yes, that was how I racked it, using the splash method. I will rack it today and leave it in a carboy for a week or two and taste. I should mention that I have already sorbates, didn't want it to go any lower that the .0998. Started at 1.072.

Thanks for the input and help.


----------



## ckvchestnut

twoyappydawgsbrewery said:


> Yes, that was how I racked it, using the splash method. I will rack it today and leave it in a carboy for a week or two and taste. I should mention that I have already sorbates, didn't want it to go any lower that the .0998. Started at 1.072.
> 
> Thanks for the input and help.



no problem! keep us posted  oh one more thing... have you backsweetened it yet? because that may be all it needs as well, to some people .0998 is too dry and some people perceive that as being a bit sour... just a thought!


----------



## jamesngalveston

fermentation and co2/abv.

http://www.yobrew.co.uk/fermentation.php


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> Carolyn,
> That looks good! What ABV do you expect? I thought about adding some medium toast oak to my all blueberry that's fermenting. I never used oak before and I have some chips - not cubes.



Have you read that sticky on oaking? from what I gather from reading there, the chips or powder are used during fermenting and the cubes while in the secondary I guess, you could use cubes in the primary. But oaking in the primary has different effects than oaking in the secondary. Like toning down certain things in the wine vs adding flavors. If it were me, I would put the oak chips in a straining bag or a knee high nylon and use it in the secondary - if I were going for flavor or mouthfeel enhancement.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> fermentation and co2/abv.
> 
> http://www.yobrew.co.uk/fermentation.php



oops another blonde moment for me lol! duh of course there'd be more c02 when I have more alcohol! Thanks for the link James! I guess I'm degassing til the cows come home... wait I don't have any cows! Guess I'll be waiting a long time!


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

ckvchestnut said:


> no problem! keep us posted  oh one more thing... have you backsweetened it yet? because that may be all it needs as well, to some people .0998 is too dry and some people perceive that as being a bit sour... just a thought!



Have not back sweetened yet, waiting for it to clear out mostly. I'm familiar with dryness in wines, just not sure about the sour notes I'm picking up. Will keep updated.


----------



## jamesngalveston

carolyn, u are a funny girl....i am not sure oak is a mouthfeel enhancement.

but i do think bananas is.
i think oak is more for the tastebuds, then feel sensors.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> carolyn, u are a funny girl....i am not sure oak is a mouthfeel enhancement.
> 
> but i do think bananas is.
> i think oak is more for the tastebuds, then feel sensors.



really? maybe i'm wrong... I thought it could add structure? or something? haha well I must be confused lol

no i'm not! I was right, oak can add tannin which does add structure and to me that registers as a part of mouthfeel at least in my mouth lol!

http://www.winesandvines.com/template.cfm?section=features&content=68760


----------



## ckvchestnut

twoyappydawgsbrewery said:


> Have not back sweetened yet, waiting for it to clear out mostly. I'm familiar with dryness in wines, just not sure about the sour notes I'm picking up. Will keep updated.



I'm sure it must be a "young" thing - not positive but it could be that...


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Have you read that sticky on oaking? from what I gather from reading there, the chips or powder are used during fermenting and the cubes while in the secondary I guess, you could use cubes in the primary. But oaking in the primary has different effects than oaking in the secondary. Like toning down certain things in the wine vs adding flavors. If it were me, I would put the oak chips in a straining bag or a knee high nylon and use it in the secondary - if I were going for flavor or mouthfeel enhancement.



Just reading the Oaking posts now. I bought the chips because that's all the LBHS had. They didn't have cubes. I would think that the chips would impart more oak in the same time as the cubes since there is more surface area on chips in contact with the wine. But that's only my logic. My fermentation is about dry as of last night (1.004) so I won't be adding to the primary now. I guess I'll try chips in the 2ndary. 

What oaking ratio did you use?

To oak before or after back sweetening: Tis the question now!


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> I'm sure it must be a "young" thing - not positive but it could be that...



What are you saying my "old" mouth will pick up the oak on the taste buds while your "Young" mouth picks it up on the sides as mouth feel - LMAO? Now that there is funny!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I am refraining from saying anything else mouth related....
Dang wine making getting more interesting....


----------



## ckvchestnut

LMAO!! Bob and James you guys are hilarious!


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> Just reading the Oaking posts now. I bought the chips because that's all the LBHS had. They didn't have cubes. I would think that the chips would impart more oak in the same time as the cubes since there is more surface area on chips in contact with the wine. But that's only my logic. My fermentation is about dry as of last night (1.004) so I won't be adding to the primary now. I guess I'll try chips in the 2ndary.
> 
> What oaking ratio did you use?
> 
> To oak before or after back sweetening: Tis the question now!



I found this post #6 on the oak sticky thread, also on that thread is what the different kinds of oaks do:

"Found this a while back on an internet search and figured I should share. Thanks "More Wine!"

Oak Cube Dosages:

In general:

1 ounce is 34 cubes 2 ounces is 68 cubes 3 ounces is 102 cubes
So, from this we can calculate the following dosage rates:

“1 ounce per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 34 cubes for 5 gallons
7 cubes (rounded-up from 6.8) for 1 gallon 2 cubes (rounded-up from 1.8) for 1 liter

“2 ounces per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 68 cubes for 5 gallons
14 cubes (rounded-up from 13.6) for 1 gallon 4 cubes (rounded-up from 3.6) for 1 liter

“2.5 ounces per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 85 cubes for 5 gallons
18 cubes (rounded-up from 17.5) for 1 gallon 5 cubes (rounded-up from 4.6) for 1 liter

“3 ounces per 5 gallons” dosage rate is: 102 cubes for 5 gallons
21 cubes (rounded-up from 20.4) for 1 gallon 6 cubes (rounded-up from 5.4) for 1 liter

*NOTE: that 2.5 to 3 ounces per 5 gallons is considered to be equivalent to “new barrel” extraction rates.
__________________
Joe Arnson"

so based on the above calcs, I used the 7 cubes per gallon ratio...


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

OK, I racked the DB again to get it off the sediment from the clarifying agent. It appears that it isn't spoilage that I'm tasting. I will give it another week to see if it improves. Has a great looking color.


----------



## JetJockey

twoyappydawgsbrewery said:


> OK, I racked the DB again to get it off the sediment from the clarifying agent. It appears that it isn't spoilage that I'm tasting. I will give it another week to see if it improves. Has a great looking color.


Dawgs,
I see you stated that you used Pineapple instead of lemon juice. Did you use/substitute for the lemon such as any acid additives like blend, citric, etc. to balance the DB? I'm not offering this as an answer to your taste issue, but just wondering what the PH is without much acid since pineapple is probably not as acidic as lemon juice. The balance may contribute to the flavor as well. Just a thought.


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

Jet Jockey, nope did not use any acid additives. Only used what was listed as the recipe on the original page. Only variances were using pineapple juice, Lavilin 1122 yeast and used 2# blackberries, 24 oz each raspberries & blueberries and 1# peaches.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hmmm the acid thing is intriguing me now too, I just finished preparing my tropical daze must and I must be a taster too, because the very last thing I did after putting all ingredients in was taste a small amount of it. I said to myself - ah! I forgot the acid blend. I am following Dave's DB recipe, so I checked the recipe to see how much to put in and of course, there isn't any because of the lemon juice. I feel like it needs acid blend because I put 2 - 48 oz cans of pineapple juice, pure juice in with my fruit blend of mango, peach, strawberry, banana and pineapple. However, I decided against it and will put it in tomorrow if needed after the pectic enzyme has had a chance to work on the fruit. What do you guys think about that?


----------



## JetJockey

Going from memory, I think I saw recipes that said to substitute acid blend when not using lemon in the tropical varients or for batches that didn't want the lemon taste.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> just opened a bottle of my tropical thats been sitting on the shelve for 3 mos....it is outstanding.....as every batch i have made, they do get better after about 2 months on the shelf....



James... did you add acid blend? I'm using two cans pineapple juice and no lemon juice in my tropical that I started today. I added one can of welche's concord for colour too...


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> Going from memory, I think I saw recipes that said to substitute acid blend when not using lemon in the tropical varients or for batches that didn't want the lemon taste.



Yup I'm pretty sure that's what it needs, right now it just tastes a bit flat and sweet...


----------



## jamesngalveston

your strawberrys are high in acid....enough so to cancel out your alkainity of the \mango,peach,pineapple.

we going to have to start calling you dragon mamma.
there is tables that can give you the acid and alkalinity of each fruit, but if you have to go that far to make a young drinking wine, then i would start making kits.
I doubt anyone has more db under his belt, other then dave himself.
I am just stating....his basic recipe is excellent....
No matter what fruit I use, I always use the lemon...There is a reason for it.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> your strawberrys are high in acid....enough so to cancel out your alkainity of the \mango,peach,pineapple.
> 
> we going to have to start calling you dragon mamma.
> there is tables that can give you the acid and alkalinity of each fruit, but if you have to go that far to make a young drinking wine, then i would start making kits.
> I doubt anyone has more db under his belt, other then dave himself.
> I am just stating....his basic recipe is excellent....
> No matter what fruit I use, I always use the lemon...There is a reason for it.



Haha! Dragaon Mama! that's a good one! However it kind of sounds like dragon lady I used to call one of my horrible boss's that  

Hmmm, I guess it's because I had copied a recipe for "tropical daze" that has the pineapple juice in place of the lemon... oh too late for that now, but do you suggest then that I add some lemon juice on top of this instead of acid blend? Thanks James! I can't wait ti this stuff is done, it's going to have a perfect rosy blush!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I am making a batch of db using mustang grapes, with the skins.
They are so acidic that your hands will burn and break out with a rash.
I still used the lemon....its not for acid, its for the taste of the lemon.
Dragon blood should have that little hint of lemon..Period.....


----------



## oreoman

Ckvchestnut-- I know there must be multiple tropical daze DB recipes but Pumpkinman's version has both lemon juice and pineapple juice. Also has honey in it too. 
I'm starting my first batch tomorrow. Fingers crossed.


----------



## kryptonitewine

oreoman said:


> Ckvchestnut-- I know there must be multiple tropical daze DB recipes but Pumpkinman's version has both lemon juice and pineapple juice. Also has honey in it too.
> I'm starting my first batch tomorrow. Fingers crossed.




The one I found only lists 2-48oz cans of pineapple juice. The lemon was never added as it was a typo on tom's part.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Awesome!! I'll put lemon juice in then! Ya I didn't go the honey route... Normal sugar and raisins... Didn't have a place that I could get reasonably priced honey soon enough!


----------



## oreoman

Ckvchestnut-- rereading recipe. It does have lemon juice listed but when you read down he said he forgot to delete it from recipe. He did only use pineapple juice. It is on the dragon blood skeeter pee topic. It is #98. I can't figure out how to copy it. Just search tropical daze. Or maybe if pumpkinman is on he can repost.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya see? I remember reading the post... I copied the instructions to my recipe book. Nevertheless I'll taste it tomorrow before pitching the yeast and adjust if needed


----------



## Rosa321

Well.....I started my first batch of DB.....just plain old DB.
I lost my recipe, found an old recipe, added half the lemon juice and hoped it was ok without changing anything else.
I might be wearing some......it might be on the floor and the cabinets..... But it's started!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Awesome Rosa! It's so much fun to make because it's fast hehe. Hope you enjoy it as much as I do. I've heard of others who only use half the lemon juice and they seemed to like it...


----------



## Rosa321

That's what I did it Carolyn, I just couldn't remember if I was supposed to add something else in place of the reduced lemon juice or not....
I didn't, so hopefully it will be ok.....Live and learn!


----------



## ckvchestnut

nope no need to add anything else, I look forward to reading about your journey!


----------



## ckvchestnut

kryptonitewine said:


> The one I found only lists 2-48oz cans of pineapple juice. The lemon was never added as it was a typo on tom's part.



Thanks! glad I didn't go running off and pouring things in, will taste it tomorrow!


----------



## PoppaCork

The wife and I are not big on lemons, so I have substituted 3 tsp. of acid blend in each 6 gallon batch, and not used any lemon juice at all. (Dave recommend this for those that want a lower acid wine. He calls it the "Dragonette" version.) The Triple Berry, and Blueberry versions I have made have turned out great. I do use double the fruit.


----------



## JetJockey

Rosa,
Here's the latest DangerDave DB Manual. This revised manual only shows (1) 48 oz. bottle of lemon. The older versions showed (2) 48 oz bottles. Don't know if you used 48 oz or 24 oz for a 1/2 recipe amount. Either way you should be fine, as some with acid reflux substitute acid blend and no lemon.

You'll love it. Oh, BTW you should drink it not wear it. This stuff is amazingly versitile, but I've never tried it for cleaning floors and cabinets! Don't give Carolyn aka Dragon Mama any ideas or she'll be marketing a new perfume - Eau de DB! 

View attachment dangerdaves_dragon_blood_wine.pdf


----------



## JetJockey

Somehow I double posted - Sorry!


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> Rosa,
> Here's the latest DangerDave DB Manual. This revised manual only shows (1) 48 oz. bottle of lemon. The older versions showed (2) 48 oz bottles. Don't know if you used 48 oz or 24 oz for a 1/2 recipe amount. Either way you should be fine, as some with acid reflux substitute acid blend and no lemon.
> 
> You'll love it. Oh, BTW you should drink it not wear it. This stuff is amazingly versitile, but I've never tried it for cleaning floors and cabinets! Don't give Carolyn aka Dragon Mama any ideas or she'll be marketing a new perfume - Eau de DB!



Too funny! I have worn that before! had a bit of a bottling mishap of my last batch of DB... my old go to fragrance is eau de cheval though lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

Has anyone thought of or actually made the combination of blueberry and peach? For some reason my mind keeps lingering on it and it seems like the flavors would go well together. Would probably have to do an f-pak or fresh fruit soak at the end of ferment though... As people seem to say that peach is a weaker flavor


----------



## JetJockey

That sounds really good! I love peach, but so many times the peach wines I've tried left a lot to be desired. You'll have to use a lot of peach. I'm sure James can give suggestions on peach!


----------



## twoyappydawgsbrewery

ckvchestnut said:


> Has anyone thought of or actually made the combination of blueberry and peach? For some reason my mind keeps lingering on it and it seems like the flavors would go well together. Would probably have to do an f-pak or fresh fruit soak at the end of ferment though... As people seem to say that peach is a weaker flavor



I know that in the beer brewing side, if making anything with peaches, use same amount of apricots as the peaches to pull the peach flavor through.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yes I know he can


----------



## ckvchestnut

twoyappydawgsbrewery said:


> I know that in the beer brewing side, if making anything with peaches, use same amount of apricots as the peaches to pull the peach flavor through.



Do you think then that I should consider doing apricot, peach and blueberry? That sounds like an excellent port... I'll be James has a recipe


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Too funny! I have worn that before! had a bit of a bottling mishap of my last batch of DB... my old go to fragrance is eau de cheval though lol



You had me at Eau de Cheval!  As a fellow horse person, I can appreciate that! LMAO!!! Je ne parle un peu français!

I have to go practice my "Presser" technique as my Blueberry DB was at 1.004 yesterday!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Oh that's awesome you're into horses?? Moi, je parle français un petit petit peut!


----------



## Winenoob66

I been thinking on a variation like this.

3 gallons apple juice
1 gallon pineapple juice pineapple juice
Sugar to reach a SG of 1.075
1 tsp. tannin (stir)
3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
Top to 6 gallons with more apple juice
6 # triple berry blend

from this point on run normal DB instructions

Has anyone done anything like this yet ?


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> You had me at Eau de Cheval!  As a fellow horse person, I can appreciate that! LMAO!!! Je ne parle un peu français!
> 
> I have to go practice my "Presser" technique as my Blueberry DB was at 1.004 yesterday!



I'd love it if you share any pertinent details on your blueberry db project... I was afraid to go with all blueberry so I bought 2 parts blueberries to 1 part quadberry to try this combo soon. Did you add any other type of fruit to enhance the blueberry flavor?


----------



## PAFruitWines

Need some help. Friday I transferred 4 gal DB to secondary. This is my 3rd batch ever and 1st that wasn't a single gallon. I did an orange/pineapple from concentrate. The recipe called for 1/4 cup sugar and 1 can of concentrate to back sweeten after adding 1 campden and 1 tsp sorbate and before adding sparkloid. I was very happy with the result. When I transferred the DB (.990 for 3 days) I added 1/4 sugar per gallon after stabilizing and before sparkloid. Rereading the recipe it says not to back sweeten for 1 week. Everything looks good and no sign of refermentation. Am I ok? I think I am but reassurance would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ffemt128

I may actually have to give this a try this year. We had a bottle of DangerDave's DB before and it was pretty darn good.


----------



## jamesngalveston

pafruit, your ok...just let it get crystal clear before bottling.
I never add sorbate until my wine is clear..


----------



## ckvchestnut

I know this slightly off topic but when is CLEAR, CLEAR?? I guess I should rack this port again, clear is clear when you get absolutely no sediment dropping out. I am absolutely astounded that the sparkolloid completely cleared this within 48 hrs. My camera isn't the best so the picture doesn't do it justice!! I'm going to rack again to see how much sediment I get after this racking... You can see through the carboy... No sediment stuck in the ridges either I always give it a little tap a few times a day to ensure the sediment drops.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I would rack it , if thats oak chips at the top.
then see if any sediment falls after about 3 days.
all kinds of stuff can be trapped in the oak.


----------



## Johngottshall

ckvchestnut said:


> Has anyone thought of or actually made the combination of blueberry and peach? For some reason my mind keeps lingering on it and it seems like the flavors would go well together. Would probably have to do an f-pak or fresh fruit soak at the end of ferment though... As people seem to say that peach is a weaker flavor



You could add a 4oz bottle of peach concentrate at the end. In the clearing phase.that will bring out the peach flavor as well.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> I would rack it , if thats oak chips at the top.
> then see if any sediment falls after about 3 days.
> all kinds of stuff can be trapped in the oak.




Thanks James! I hadn't thought of that... These are cubes and not chips or shavings of any kind and don't appear to be dropping any particles but I'm racking and fortifying with more brandy today. Oh boy oh boy wait til you guys see the awesome colour on my tropical one it's the nicest light rose colour!


----------



## kryptonitewine

ckvchestnut said:


> I'd love it if you share any pertinent details on your blueberry db project... I was afraid to go with all blueberry so I bought 2 parts blueberries to 1 part quadberry to try this combo soon. Did you add any other type of fruit to enhance the blueberry flavor?



I made an all blueberry batch this fall. We went and picked blueberries in July, I reserved 8 lbs for a batch of what we call blueblood. I followed the original recipe to a T other than using the 8lbs of blueberries which I froze until I started the batch. 

I was a little surprised in the color as it is very close to the same color as the normal DB. The taste however is quite different. At first the flavor profile was quite similar but now as it's aged a little bit I really like this blueberry version. Going to be a big hit in the summer. 

I bottled half in 750ml bottles and the other half in beer bottles, easier to serve pool side.


----------



## wineforfun

ffemt128 said:


> I may actually have to give this a try this year. We had a bottle of DangerDave's DB before and it was pretty darn good.



Doug,
I am sure you will like it. It is very similar to your Cranberry/Lime recipe you gave me awhile back.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Johngottshall said:


> You could add a 4oz bottle of peach concentrate at the end. In the clearing phase.that will bring out the peach flavor as well.



Thanks! That would be a great idea!


----------



## upsidedown

Dave I am interested in your method of secondary flavoring in your blue blood. I currently have a batch of blue berry on the go Same as DB but with frozen BB. I will be racking to secondary in a few a couple of days. My questions to you are 
1: Do you add the BB and Oak to secondary after sorbate and fining?
2: Do you add the BB and Oak directly into the wine (no bag) I think it would be difficult to use a bag with anything other then a Better Bottle sized neck but this could be an option.
3 Much like 1 do you use more fining agents or just rack and settle before bottling 
Thanks


----------



## barbl72

Starting my second batch of DB today using 3# of the triple berry and 3# of raspberry/blueberry/strawberry. I have about 3/4 of a bottle of very sweet peach wine that is good as a dessert - can I use it to top up my carboy later? Or just add it in at the beginning?


----------



## reefman

tkmorgan said:


> Call me low class, but I sometimes make freezer berry wine...whenever store bought fruit (mostly strawberries or blueberries) stay in the fridge too long, we freeze them, until we have enough to make something...I wouldn't call it db, because it's really just random stuff thrown together in an ad-hoc fashion.


That's what I do too!
I have about 20lbs of bananas, a few lbs of concord grapes, strawberries and blueberries in my freezer. Time to make a batch!


----------



## ckvchestnut

if it's fully fermented wine that's fine to put it in your carboy, you can blend it with the other wine  It will give it extra flavour!


----------



## barbl72

ckvchestnut said:


> if it's fully fermented wine that's fine to put it in your carboy, you can blend it with the other wine  It will give it extra flavour!



Are you answering me Carolyn? (aka Dragon Lady) 
I guess I could use it to top off the carboy?


----------



## ckvchestnut

barbl72 said:


> Are you answering me Carolyn? (aka Dragon Lady)
> 
> I guess I could use it to top off the carboy?




Ya sorry Barb! It was meant for you!


----------



## toddrod

I started my 2nd batch yesterday and finally put a video together for making Dragon's Blood. I am also doing a batch of Tropical Daze (the pumpkinman recipe).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9yI...zy3ig0vn0ip4cm&google_view_type#gpluscomments


----------



## PAFruitWines

I made a 4 gal batch of triple berry using this recipe. Starting SG was 1.08 before adding the berries. Any idea how much sugar 4 lbs of fruit contributes?


----------



## dangerdave

Like I have said before, Jim. For some reason, the blueberry takes more time to come around, but when it does, it's very good. I just bottled another batch recently for summer consumption. Great minds think alike!


----------



## JetJockey

Dave,
My 100% all local blueberry is now dry and will rack on Thursday. When you say it takes more time to come around, give me a ball park of how long. And is that if bottled or bulk aged?


----------



## ckvchestnut

I'm listening! Haven't started my blueberry yet... Only have 1 - 10 gal fermenter and my tropical daze is in it!


----------



## ckvchestnut

I have 6 gal fermenters coming out of my ying yang but they're not big enough for all the fruit!


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> I have 6 gal fermenters coming out of my ying yang but they're not big enough for all the fruit!



I'm shocked that Dragon Lady doesn't have a Brute 20 gal primary lol !

Make two batches in your multiple 6 gal primaries. The primarys don't have to be full. Then the batches can be combined (or not) and racked to a 6 gal and a 5 gal carboy. Just a thought!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya I was going to split my TD batch like that cuz my 10 gal is full to the top with the fruit and 7 gals of water/juice mix. Need a 20 gal brute can ASAP and going to get one of those trollies for it. I guess I could just mix the fruit in a huge stainless steel bowl and then separate them evenly and the yeast too. Ya maybe I'll start this soon!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Dave does the blueberry finish off seemingly hot or acidic this taking longer to come around possibly oak or bananas would be a good addition to this variation?

JetJockey have u tasted yours since it went dry? What are your thoughts?


----------



## dangerdave

The first blueberry version I made finished just, well, not tatsing very blueberry-ish. Nobody drank it, so it sat in my rack (bottled) for a year. I popped a bottle every once in a while to check it's progress through time. It came up to 'good' after six months. In a year it was wonderful, with a nice full blueberry flavor. At least at that point, you could recognize it was blueberry. To the current batch I just bottled---in an attempt to make it more drinkable earlier---I soaked extra blueberries in it after clearing. It is much fruitier.

It's been in the bottle for a couple of weeks, so maybe I'll uncork a bottle tonight and see how she's coming along.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Even though all db are to be a young wine...I think after about 3 mos there all better...I opened one yesterday that was perfect when bottled..but when opened it was almost too sweet...next batch i bottle will be dry, just to see what happens in 3 mos,6 mos.


----------



## oldschool

*Need a DB recipe recommendation*

Looking for something to get me thru the winter down time. Both the wife and I like a not-so-sweet, dry wine. Merlot is our store bought wine of choice. My blackberry and red muscadine (Nobles) our favorite homemade. After pouring thru this thread for over an hour thought I'd just give up and ask. Any recommendations? TIA ...


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> The first blueberry version I made finished just, well, not tatsing very blueberry-ish. Nobody drank it, so it sat in my rack (bottled) for a year. I popped a bottle every once in a while to check it's progress through time. It came up to 'good' after six months. In a year it was wonderful, with a nice full blueberry flavor. At least at that point, you could recognize it was blueberry. To the current batch I just bottled---in an attempt to make it more drinkable earlier---I soaked extra blueberries in it after clearing. It is much fruitier.
> 
> It's been in the bottle for a couple of weeks, so maybe I'll uncork a bottle tonight and see how she's coming along.



I'm a newbie! I am happy to report, so far, my first batch of triple berry seems to be going great! It's happily fermenting along!!!!! :-D 

I have tons of blueberries in the freezer that I picked from my property over the summer and wanted to use them in my next batch. Can you just clarify, for a newbie, exactly what you did differently, Dave? So after adding the clarifying agent, and racking to another carboy, you added more berries? How much? For how long did it sit?
I'm just new to the process and want to clarify so I don't goof too badly.  
THANK YOU!


----------



## ckvchestnut

This DB recipe can finish off completely dry... My last batch finished at .990 - I like my wines dry as well I ended up sweetening it to 1.000 and even though I found it just a tad sweet for what I normally drink it grew on me. I was going to keep this batch drier... But it finished at 1.000 because I really bumped the sugar on it... So it tastes like my last batch only stronger. I'm definitely leaving this one in the bottle longer so I can see how it evolves.


----------



## JetJockey

Carolyn,
I had just the opposite experiences. My other batches of DB finished between 0.994 and 0.996. This Blueberry batch started at 1.100 for ~14% ABV and it finished at 0.988 (temperature corrected) by day 11! I thought it was because I added more sugar that the finished SG dropped. I set my temperature controller (brew belt) to maintain about 75*F, but I don't have a cooler and the must hit 78*F Days 3-6 and remained at 76*F the rest of the fermentation. I used EC-1118 yeast.


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> Carolyn,
> I had just the opposite experiences. My other batches of DB finished between 0.994 and 0.996. This Blueberry batch started at 1.100 for ~14% ABV and it finished at 0.988 (temperature corrected) by day 11! I thought it was because I added more sugar that the finished SG dropped. I set my temperature controller (brew belt) to maintain about 75*F, but I don't have a cooler and the must hit 78*F Days 3-6 and remained at 76*F the rest of the fermentation. I used EC-1118 yeast.



That's interesting Bob! This wine fermented at 72F very steady temps. I did the kieselsol and chitosan treatment to it on Sunday and it still hasn't cleared that much. It has dropped 1/2 inch of sediment but still cloudy. It's currently sitting at 66F in my carboy. I wonder if it isn't clearing as fast as my last batch because it was just "stuck" at 1.000 but it was like that for almost a week so, I just racked it and left it in the carboy for almost a week before clearing and stabilizing. I had no idea how long to wait after putting the kieselsol to put the chitosan. It said to wait at least an hour, I waited for 3 hours. I usually use sparkalloid. I used sparkalloid on my concord port same day and it cleared up 10 times faster. I've heard the opposite info for super kleer vs the sparkalloid. I guess now I'll have to wait until it clears on its own. I don't want to go back over it with sparkalloid...


----------



## ckvchestnut

I'll see what it looks like at the one week mark after i put the kieselsol and chitosan in it...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ok I lied! I pulled a sample just to check and it's pretty darned clear after just a few days... I took a sip boy oh boy this one's a KICKER! Lol! I'm going to serve this to my sister who says she never gets drunk lol!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Still heavy on the fruit flavour but it has already mellowed out since racking to carboy... I think I'm pretty happy with this one so far! Better get making another batch so I can hide some bottles away for longer than 6 months haha!

So funny I just caught myself reaching for another sip but my sample is already gone! Lord I need help!


----------



## JetJockey

No, it sounds like you need a brute, some more carboys and more gallon bottles! I always hold a sample up in clear glass or wine thief and shine a bright light through to check the clearness.


----------



## JetJockey

Clearing: I always have used Sparkolloid for homemade wines and the Wine Expert kits come with chitosan or isinglass. When my Sparkolloid is gone, I'll switch to Super Kleer, since the consensus here is that is slightly better with more compact lees.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya I was thinking it wasn't clearing much because it seemed pretty dark in my carboy which is standing in a darkish area. My camera on my phone obviously isn't that great, but this wine is turning out NICE even though yet again it's a bit sweeter than my preference... I may try for a slightly lower OG this time... I brought it to 1.100 but forgot about what the fruit does so it spiked up to 1.120 before fermenting down to 1.000. My tropical daze I brought it up to 1.090 expecting it to spike to 1.100 but if it did, just barely so. Probably because it's different fruit type however, I used 13.23 lbs of fruit in the TD plus 6 bananas and some raisins and the DB batch only had 11.5lbs plus 2 bananas...


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> Clearing: I always have used Sparkolloid for homemade wines and the Wine Expert kits come with chitosan or isinglass. When my Sparkolloid is gone, I'll switch to Super Kleer, since the consensus here is that is slightly better with more compact lees.



Ya that's the reason I bought a pkg to try and definitely I can see the difference in the lees on the super kleer batch vs my sparkalloid one. It's looking dense easier for racking!


----------



## keahunter

Dave (or anyone else that wants to chime in)...this may have been brought up before but has anyone ever used juice (grape or otherwise) in place of the water in the DB recipe? Drinking my first batch of original DB and it's fantastic...just got me thinking of future batches.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i made a blackberry with all juice...wasnt as good ...reason
db is meant to be a lighter wine with some lemon taste are acid,but sweet,with fruit .
making with a pure juice gives it a heavy full bodied taste, if that can mean anything.
not sure how to describe it...
I made several batches of wine before finding Daves recipe...I adapted it for all my wines...pure fruit, are a mixed fruit...
I use more fruit then dave calls for, i clear before adding sorbate, and I start off at 1.120 on my abv...


----------



## kzimmer0817

Dave,

I've brewed a few batches of beer, but I've pretty much decided to switch to wine. Between your Dragon's Blood and Ron's Skeeter Pee along with the many variations of each, I think I can keep myself busy for a while.

Have a question about a photo you posted in your DB Melomel recipe:







I notice that you're using buckets that have spigots (like bottling buckets for beer-making). Are you able to use these spigots for racking or do they suck a bit too much causing the lees to get transferred as well? I had some good results using the Better Bottle with rotating racking attachment for a pumpkin beer I made 2 years ago which had a great deal of trub.

Even though I had an auto-siphon, I still hated having to hold it in place while it drained - and I had bad luck with the accompanying clip actually holding it in place without slipping and stirring up the trub.

Thanks,
Keith


----------



## wildvines

Started my first batch of DB tonight. Let's see how it goes. Doing quad berries ( blueberries, blackberries,raspberries,and strawberries).


----------



## jamesngalveston

good choice..makes a great summer wine.


----------



## ou8amaus

I am trying a blueberry version, exact same recipe... but with 9lbs of frozen blueberries. after 4 days of active ferment I am getting a hint of sulfur smell when I pull of the lid... apart from stirring it up like crazy every day, is there anything else i should do? Add a little more nutrient? I am paranoid after losing a jus kit recently to rotten eggs...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Whenever my batches start to smell a little volatile I pop in a teaspoon of nutrient and stir vigorously and it does go away... Can't hurt to try!


----------



## ou8amaus

ckvchestnut said:


> Whenever my batches start to smell a little volatile I pop in a teaspoon of nutrient and stir vigorously and it does go away... Can't hurt to try!



I will give that a try and see if
there is a difference... thanks!


----------



## ckvchestnut

No problem... Hope it works out for you, is it getting enough air as well?


----------



## ou8amaus

It is still in the primary bucket so access to oxygen should not be an issue. I may also just be paranoid and be imagining the smell... but an ounce of prevention...


----------



## jamesngalveston

what yeast did you use.


----------



## ckvchestnut

You said you had a lid, is it on loosely or does it have an airlock? If not it could just be sulfur being trapped under the lid and when you open it up you get that whoosh of smell. Or c02


----------



## ou8amaus

The lid is on but not snapped down, but taking off the lid is where I am noticing the faint smell. I lied about following recipe exactly, as I am using K1-V1116 yeast. I have had good results in the past with fruit wine using this yeast...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya it could be just that the lid is closed I leave mine open just a crack on one side if I'm not using a towel to cover the top instead. I usually use a towel secured by bungee cords. More air but my fermenter is too full right now do I have lid but since there are no fruit flies this time of year I'm leaving one side open by just 1/2 an inch. For more air or for gas release.


----------



## ou8amaus

I will try that right now. SG has gone from 1.086 to 1.04. Temp steady at 25 Celsius. ..


----------



## ckvchestnut

That's great! It sounds like a good normal ferment! You're almost ready to rack to the carboy in a few days.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I always ferment db to .990 in the primary without a lid are air lock.
I have seen batches go from 1.000 to .990 in 24 hours open.
I have seen batches go from 1.000 to .990 in 10 days when moved to a carboy.
Guess what...they taste the exact same, and they have the exact same amount of abv.
Like most things in wine, its the makers choice..
THat said.
I never add sorbate until the wine is clear.
I rack when dry, leaving as much sediment behind as i can.
Then rack two days in a row
Then hit with supler kleer. Wait for it to clear, add sorbate and 
Backsweeten and bottle.


----------



## buffalofrenchy

Just started the db batch last Sunday. Using premiere cuvee for yeast. SG down to 1.044. Only made a couple of winexpert kits before and havent seen so much activity in those. Anything look normal to experienced winemakers? One pic is before stirring. The other is after stirring. The must becomes chunky looking.


----------



## jamesngalveston

looks perfectly normal...and healthy.....


----------



## knockabout

So I couldn't resist. I am starting my 1st batch of DB today. I am so appreciative of all the knowledge shared here. Thanks to all!


----------



## ckvchestnut

So exciting! Any wait to hear everyone's updates! I'm bottling mine tonight or tomorrow... Then will start my blueberry/quad berry batch. Still waiting to transfer my tropical one out of my fermenter or I'll have to split my batch up into 2 - 6gal fermenters.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Updates: lol
lets see
6 gallon batch of the fruit original. day 5 finished dry,adding sk today
6 gallon batch of mustang grape ...day 5 finished dry,adding sk today
6 gallon batch of peach port....clearing
3 gallon batch of mango..... ready for bottles
3 gallon batch of blackberry/strawberry....ready for bottles
6 gallon batch of strawberry.....ready for bottles
thats for the summer time drinking...


----------



## dangerdave

Rosa321 said:


> Can you just clarify, for a newbie, exactly what you did differently, Dave? So after adding the clarifying agent, and racking to another carboy, you added more berries? How much? For how long did it sit?


 
Rosa: I was using store bought frozen berries which I got at Walmart. It was a 3 lbs bag. I thawed them in the microwave and stuffed them and their juices through a big funnel into a carboy, then racked the wine into it. I let it sit there for three weeks. I did stir it up a couple of times along the way, just for good measure.

If you are using berries you picked yourself, don't forget they will need to be sulfited to get rid of any rogue yeasties. Just do what you did to the fruit you used in the primary.

If you need further help, just ask. 

buffalofrenchy: Yours looks perfect!


----------



## oreoman

I'm going to be starting Pumpkinman's TD. To those that have done it--
1)did you use the mixture of yeasts? And did you measure out 1 gm/1 gal?

2) did you use go ferm?

3) did you oak ?

Any suggestions? Thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## dangerdave

kzimmer0817 said:


> Dave,
> 
> I notice that you're using buckets that have spigots (like bottling buckets for beer-making). Are you able to use these spigots for racking or do they suck a bit too much causing the lees to get transferred as well? I had some good results using the Better Bottle with rotating racking attachment for a pumpkin beer I made 2 years ago which had a great deal of trub.
> 
> Even though I had an auto-siphon, I still hated having to hold it in place while it drained - and I had bad luck with the accompanying clip actually holding it in place without slipping and stirring up the trub.
> 
> Thanks,
> Keith


 
Keith: The spigoted buckets are great! When you are racking off the gross lees (draining the bucket through the spigot), it doesn't hurt at all to get a little of the lees along the way. I have never had a problem getting "too much" of the lees going through. It's all going to fall out at clearing ayway, so it's not an issue. If you let your wine sit undisturbed for a few days at the end of primary fermentation, most everything settles nicely on the bottom.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I am not sure what PumpkinMans TD is but I have done a few batches of tropical dragon blood using the frozen tropical blend at walmart, along with lemon juice and 1/2 pineapple juice and 1/2 water.
I used pasteur red yeast and I used superferment..
I do not oak any dragon blood. I want the full taste of fruit, not of a smoky wood.


----------



## jamesngalveston

After all the batches and varieties i have made, everyone including myself would rather drink the original version...just something about that makes it a perfect hot summer day wine....kinda like haveing a freshly brewed iced tea when your hot from working in the yard...except your by the pool, chilling and drinking.....


----------



## oreoman

•Water to about six gallons

•20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG between 1.085-1.090)

•8 cups Honey use to bring SG up to desired amount

•2 – 48 oz Cans Dole Pineapple Juice

•1 tsp. tannin 

•4 tsp. yeast nutrient 

•2 tsp. yeast energizer 

•3 Tsp Acid Blend 

•3 tsp. pectin enzyme 

•12 lbs. of Mixed Fruit Blend (Pineapple/ Peach/Mango/Strawberry/Grape) I put the fruit in a nylon drawstring bag or two if necessary, this will make for a much cleaner brew. I take a spring clamp and hold the drawstring in place so I don’t have to fish for them later.

•Yeast, 1 gram of yeast per gallon of Must. Lalvin 71B-1122 & ICV D47 blend,( you can use any of the following as well. DV10, QA23 - (Saccharomyces cerevisiae bayanus

•Go Ferm – 1.25 Gram per each gram of yeast used

•½ -1 Oak Infusion spiral stick

•2 oz untoasted oak.

•20 oz. Raisins, chopped


This is Pumpkinman's recipe. Do most follow this or just sub the tropical fruit for the berry fruit?
Sorry I couldn't get it in the shaded box-- newbie. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## jamesngalveston

looks like a good recipe to me...
i use superferment instead of the nutirent/engergizer combo.
i dont measure my yeast ..i use one packet for each 6 gallons...and i feed it superferment in 3 stages...


----------



## ckvchestnut

I followed that recipe for tropical daze. I used 3.5gms of medium toast French oak powder in the primary. Didn't have sticks or spirals. I didn't use a blend of yeasts I used 1pkt of 71B-1122 per 6gals of juice. Didn't use any lemon juice just the 2 cans pineapple juice. Everything else I did was the same except my fruit blend had strawberries instead of grapes. Oh and accidentally added 3 tbsps of acid blend instead of teaspoons.

We will be going updates on TD on the TD thread tho so as not to hijack this one


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> Updates: lol
> lets see
> 6 gallon batch of the fruit original. day 5 finished dry,adding sk today
> 6 gallon batch of mustang grape ...day 5 finished dry,adding sk today
> 6 gallon batch of peach port....clearing
> 3 gallon batch of mango..... ready for bottles
> 3 gallon batch of blackberry/strawberry....ready for bottles
> 6 gallon batch of strawberry.....ready for bottles
> thats for the summer time drinking...




That's a lot of summertime drinkin lol you got lot of friends James?? Haha


----------



## jamesngalveston

playing with new camera...uploaded directly to youtube.
chunky db

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E-hGMzEgI0&feature=youtu.be


----------



## jamesngalveston

well..that didnt work....crap.


----------



## jamesngalveston

carolyn, when you have a nice pool, and free wine...and its 100 degrees,
you have a lot of friends, and I do not mind at all, since the majority wears bikinis.....lol remember i live in a beach community.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> carolyn, when you have a nice pool, and free wine...and its 100 degrees,
> you have a lot of friends, and I do not mind at all, since the majority wears bikinis.....lol remember i live in a beach community.




Yup! That's what I assumed lol!


----------



## jamesngalveston

lol...living on an island....swimsuits (7) one for each day..Mantadory.
flip flops, mantadory, loose fitting crazy wild shirts, Mandatory.
You see men and women in swim suits every where...walmart, grocery store,movie theater,gas station, etc....
Ive even seen them change clothes in the parking lots...
Pretty crazy in the summer time...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya well bikinis stop traffic around here! Like don't dare mow your lawn, riding your mower in a bikini unless you want an accident in front of your house lol!


----------



## jamesngalveston

LOL, thats funny.....and here...its nothing....


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> That's a lot of summertime drinkin lol you got lot of friends James?? Haha



James,
A few more batches and you can fill that pool before opening! Now that would be fun!


----------



## Winenoob66

I'm starting to think he is filling the pool with DB


----------



## ckvchestnut

Wanted to rack my DB to clean carboy today so I can bottle it this weekend... couldn't even hoist any further than half way up my counter ugh! Have to wait til hubby comes home I guess! Sucks having to be dependent for some things!


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Wanted to rack my DB to clean carboy today so I can bottle it this weekend... couldn't even hoist any further than half way up my counter ugh! Have to wait til hubby comes home I guess! Sucks having to be dependent for some things!



Replace the hubby with an All in One Wine Pump! The best wine making investment I made, except for carboys and hydrometer. The support Steve provides is fantastic.

This is especially true for you since you make so many batches of wine! Racking, degassing, filtering and bottling are actually fun and no carboy /primary lifting required.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya I'm thinking this is going to be much easier... but is this easy to hook up? I'd better look into it again, I don't think I want to go the whole house filter thingy...


----------



## jamesngalveston

carolyn, you will never know how you lived with out it...
there is nothing to hooking it up...if you can you can bridle and saddle a horse you can hook up the aio...........


----------



## JetJockey

Carolyn,
I make no money on All in One Wine Pumps, nor do all of the extremely satisfied users on the AIOWP forum thread. Seriously, with the amount of wine you make it would be a real time saver. What made my decision to make the purchase, other than the raving reviews, was the trouble I had degassing a WE kit. I used spoons, paddles, whips, and a drill stir. Hours and hours later, it still wouldn't pass the puff test.

I bought the AIOWP and have had many wine making conversations with Steve. He is a knowledgeable wine maker and his support is unreal! The unit comes pretty much color coded as to what hooks up to where. The tubing are different sizes so it's hard to get it hooked up wrong. He now has a manual with pictures. One practice with water was all I needed for racking and bottling.

For racking, you can easily splash rack without the fear of oxygenation because its under vacuum and is pulling air/CO2 out. No carboy lifting as it transfers from primary to carboy on a table or at the same height on the floor. No waiting to siphon as its transferred from one vessel to another in a matter of minutes. The only caution is that you have to rack TO a *glass *carboy because a Better Bottle or plastic carboy will have the sides sucked in. You can transfer/rack from plastic but it must be TO glass.

I just love it for bottling. The same height in the bottles regardless of size or shape and no spillage! Make sure you get the bottling attachment, as its a small up charge and simple. Leave the full carboy on the floor and the AIOWP will fill to the same level and the excess goes back down to the carboy for the next bottle.

You can add the filter later housing if you decide. I really like the filter because it really gives the wine a nice polish and I haven't had any sediment appear in bottles. Each time you rack, filter and bottle, it removes CO2 from the vacuum. I just wish it would put corks in!

Give it another look and Steve does ship frequently to Canada. Send him a PM and he'll call you to answer your questions before you buy. His username is Vacuumpumpman.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks guys for your information, I went and looked at the video again. That makes things easier... I already have a buon vino automatic bottle filler and a superjet filter system. I'm not in any way saying they compare to the aio... just will have to justify getting this thing after shelling out for the other two already. I got those before I knew about the aio. Maybe soon though, perhaps after my next bottling mishap I'll be ready to make the change lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

do you have yours attached to a floor corker...


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Maybe soon though, perhaps after my next bottling mishap I'll be ready to make the change lol



Oh, I smell Eau de DB in your future!  You can still knock a bottle over with the AIO to keep you in perfume. I do understand with having the other filter and bottling. I got lucky and read about the AIO on this forum before I invested in other equipment.

I know DangerDave did a comparison somewhere with his Vino filter before going the whole house filter route.


----------



## JetJockey

jamesngalveston said:


> do you have yours attached to a floor corker...



James, I'll have to talk with Steve to see if he can devise a machine to have the AIO pull a cork into the bottle when its full!

Come on Steve we're counting on you!


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> do you have yours attached to a floor corker...



Huh?? Lol no, I force hubby to do the corking with the floor corker while I fill bottles haha


----------



## roger80465

ckvchestnut said:


> Ya well bikinis stop traffic around here! Like don't dare mow your lawn, riding your mower in a bikini unless you want an accident in front of your house lol!



Oh how well I know that! Neighbors made me stop.

Roger


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Huh?? Lol no, I force hubby to do the corking with the floor corker while I fill bottles haha



We hubbies like to be needed for some things. It feeds our ego!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya I'm sure I read that awhile back too... it'll come... I guess you could say I'm stuck in the hobbyist frame of mind... like I don't need fancy stuff I'm only a hobbyist... but I know it will make my life easier... lol


----------



## JetJockey

roger80465 said:


> Oh how well I know that! Neighbors made me stop.
> 
> Roger



Maybe that explains all the accidents on our road. I have 10 acres along the highway. Here it must of been due to my mowing in a bikini! Guess I'll have to change (pun intended) and go with Jame's flip flop, trunks and wild shirt motive.


----------



## ckvchestnut

JetJockey said:


> We hubbies like to be needed for some things. It feeds our ego!



Ya this is so true! DH started the whole thing years ago with his beer and cider making, it didn't really catch on with me right away however, 7 years ago I began planting fruit and grapes to make wine out of. Just the last few years is when my fruit production and wine making took off. When it did, I just ran with it, like zoom over his head... I could see this look on his face like what happened, she doesn't need me to make wine or beer or cider anymore?? I involve him as much as possible I think he likes that he's not the only one doing it now.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm going to have to change the name of this thread to the "Dragon Blood CHAT ROOM"!!! 

 I'm just foolin'! You guys and gals are great! What a wonderful place for like-minded individuals to hang out!


----------



## jamesngalveston

To be honest I do not have an all in one from Steve. I build one from scratch before i knew about his..
I have talked to Steve many times on different topics and have loved our conversations.
He like myself believes in customer service and selling the best product for the service at hand..
When my system quits..I will get one from steve.
There was a thread on someone adding a bottle filler to a floor corker.
Can not find it.


----------



## Loxalibations

dangerdave said:


> I'm going to have to change the name of this thread to the "Dragon Blood CHAT ROOM"!!!
> 
> I'm just foolin'! You guys and gals are great! What a wonderful place for like-minded individuals to hang out!



Posting do sometimes stray off topic, but ALWAYS an interesting read. I saw in here somewhere that DDB is meant to be a young wine. Is that just mean that it does not require a lot of aging, or that aging it will go bad if aged too much? And how long is too long? When buying wine I can't recall any going bad, but I didn't buy in 5-6 gallon batches either.


----------



## jamesngalveston

It is meant to be in a wine glass in less then a month.
It is best after it has aged 3 mos, but that is still a young wine.
The longest i have had any age was 9 mos...have not been able to keep any around longer then that...I goes pretty fast.


----------



## ckvchestnut

So I got my buon vino filter system out today first time ever using it cuz I normally make reds only. I was surprised at how sparkly it made my wine! 

So I bottled up my dragon blood and used jswordy's tip of using milk to affix my labels and it worked great thanks jswordy! I labelled this batch berrylicious just to shake things up a bit! Cheers to Dangerdave for another batch of DB bottled!


----------



## jamesngalveston

good job, looks very good.....can i come get a bottle.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Absolutely! If you don't mind all the snow and ice around here lol!


----------



## oreoman

They look great !!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks! I think the all black shrink caps look more avant garde!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hmmmm! Would like to know what you all think! I get an overwhelming flavor from some of the fruit when swallowing and sometimes when burping (excuse me). But I don't know what kind of fruit I'm tasting or experiencing. There is an overwhelming fruit flavor... Dark I think like blueberry or blackberry.

Does someone else detect this? What are your thoughts?


----------



## ckvchestnut

I should remind that I use quad berry- strawberry, blueberry, blackberry, raspberry (also bananas)

Flavoring is awesome though even at 16% abv


----------



## ou8amaus

I found that with the quad berry I ended up with a lot more strawberry flavor, whereas the triple berry was more raspberry flavored.


----------



## bkisel

Very impressive! Well done.

"jswordy's tip of using milk to affix my labels"... can you repeat the tip or give the link?


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks! It's in the post your labels here thread... He basically says to turn your paper labels over on top of so e newspaper and brush the backs with milk and align them onto your bottles and then roll the bottle on a towel on a flat surface. Once it was on I used the towel to press really well with my hands, then cleaned the bottles up with a clean damp cloth. I'll check for the link again.


----------



## ckvchestnut

ou8amaus said:


> I found that with the quad berry I ended up with a lot more strawberry flavor, whereas the triple berry was more raspberry flavored.




Thanks!! There is definitely one of the fruits dominating the flavor. And you could be right, I'll keep that in mind the next time I drink some. I've never made it with the triple berry since I can't get it in my stores here.


----------



## jamesngalveston

No triple berry up there...that is strange. I dont think i can find the quadberry here.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya my local Walmart only has the quad berry great value stuff... I'm sure the other grocery stores might have something else in smaller bags but this my cheapest choice. For me it's $10.47 for a 1.75kg bag. It would be interesting for all the traditional triple berry'ers out there to try a batch of quad berry to see if they find a difference!


----------



## jamesngalveston

Carolyn since your the crafty person you are, Thought you could use this little bit of info.

http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=Ceramic&that=Fabric


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> Carolyn since your the crafty person you are, Thought you could use this little bit of info.
> 
> http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=Ceramic&that=Fabric




OMG! Too funny! A freaking glue finder! The next time I make something from scratch I'll refer to that thanks! Lol


----------



## JetJockey

jamesngalveston said:


> Carolyn since your the crafty person you are, Thought you could use this little bit of info.
> 
> http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=Ceramic&that=Fabric



One caution, usually people doing crafts want their paper to remain permanently on the glass. You might not get the labels back off if you plan to "recycle" the bottles!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha er ya... Milk works perfectly for my needs! I couldn't find the post by jswordy! Maybe he posted that tip in another thread - will look again.


----------



## ckvchestnut

And it is still smooth! At first I was worried that this batch was going to be hot rocket fuel... But nope this is already smooth and I can't wait to see what it will be like in 3 months!


----------



## wildvines

After 24 hours of pitching the yeast there is no activity at all. Will give it a bit more. Any suggestions? The temp was 68 to 72 degrees. Starting SG 1.090.


----------



## ckvchestnut

It should start but make sure it's over 70F for sure 75F would be decent. Did u make a starter or just pitch it dry?


----------



## ckvchestnut

Btw I found the post on the milk complete with instructions and pics. Post #27 by jswordy on the "labels that peel off easily" thread!


----------



## wildvines

I rehydrated it in hot water


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ok I usually find that it starts at the 24 hour mark if the must is warm enough. Sometimes it's quicker sometimes a tad slower. Can u get it up a bit warmer?


----------



## jamesngalveston

I never hydrate yeast...I just pitch...and i make sure the temp is 78 degrees.
usually it will start with in a few hours, and very vigorous in 12.
sometimes, depending on what i am making i start with a high (78) and after it starts i will lower the temp down to about 68 and let it go dry.


----------



## JetJockey

wildvines said:


> After 24 hours of pitching the yeast there is no activity at all. Will give it a bit more. Any suggestions? The temp was 68 to 72 degrees. Starting SG 1.090.



What yeast did you use. I'm assuming this is a batch of Dragon Blood, but what recipe would also help.


----------



## barbl72

This is my first DB! So pretty had to share! Thanks for everyone's help and support!


----------



## ckvchestnut

OMG Barb! I love it! Looks so good! Te colour is awesome and the labels are fab! Yours appears lighter in colour than my ruby red stuff do you use the triple berry blend? Congrats!


----------



## ou8amaus

ckvchestnut said:


> Thanks!! There is definitely one of the fruits dominating the flavor. And you could be right, I'll keep that in mind the next time I drink some. I've never made it with the triple berry since I can't get it in my stores here.


Like you I had to do the quad berry from Wal-Mart... until I found the triple berry at Costco! Quad is nice, in some ways closer to a light berry rose, but the triple packs a lot more color and berry flavor. The original recipe triple berry is the best in my opinion.


----------



## Johngottshall

Filtered and back sweetened my batch of this triple berry today. Letting it age in the carboys I added some oak cubes to the one gallon carboy letting it set a few weeks see if there is any difference


----------



## Winenoob66

Wildvines how hot was the water that you rehydrate the yeast in. If it was to hot then you cooked the yeast, you just want to use luke warm water like you would use to warm a babies milk in. And did it start to foam when you rehydrated it?


----------



## Winenoob66

I done a 5 gal batch but kept fruit and lemon at same lvls, my starting sg was 1.090 before adding fruit, all I taste in mine is lemon. I used 3 1/2 cups sugar to backsweeten and it is still extremely tart. sad thing is I done bottled it. So I guess I need to open them all back up and put it back in the primary and add more sugar .


----------



## ckvchestnut

ou8amaus said:


> Like you I had to do the quad berry from Wal-Mart... until I found the triple berry at Costco! Quad is nice, in some ways closer to a light berry rose, but the triple packs a lot more color and berry flavor. The original recipe triple berry is the best in my opinion.




Really? I'll have a look next time I go to Costco. The only difference between the two is that the quad berry has strawberries. In what way do you think that the triple berry has more flavor and colour? Mine always comes out ruby red like in the bottle I posted last night. I wonder of the colours are really that different? I think I'll have to try it myself to see what you're talking about. Thanks for the feedback on the comparison!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Johngottshall said:


> Filtered and back sweetened my batch of this triple berry today. Letting it age in the carboys I added some oak cubes to the one gallon carboy letting it set a few weeks see if there is any difference




Nice! What kind of oak? Does anyone know how long oak powder is potent for? How long until it doesn't release anymore flavour? I have some that was in my primary in pantyhose and I was thinking of transferring it to my secondary on my tropical stuff.


----------



## wildvines

Just out hit water in a bucket and place primary into that bucket and covered it with towels.


----------



## wildvines

Just out hit water in a bucket and place primary into that bucket and covered it with towels.


----------



## wildvines

Ment just put hot water


----------



## Johngottshall

ckvchestnut said:


> Nice! What kind of oak? Does anyone know how long oak powder is potent for? How long until it doesn't release anymore flavour? I have some that was in my primary in pantyhose and I was thinking of transferring it to my secondary on my tropical stuff.



Medium toast oak Hungarian. These are cubes and the package says to leave them in 20-30 days


----------



## wildvines

Winenoob66 said:


> Wildvines how hot was the water that you rehydrate the yeast in. If it was to hot then you cooked the yeast, you just want to use luke warm water like you would use to warm a babies milk in. And did it start to foam when you rehydrated it?




I really can't say it wasn't hot enough to burn my finger when placed in it. I only have the stick on temp maybe I guess I burnt them. Should I pitch another tune after u give it 24 more hours of sitting without change?


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya I have the cubes... And knew about the time on those and I think they're actually good for up to 6 weeks or so it depends on how oaky you want it. Just wasn't sure about the oak chips or powder since it seems like they would release flavour and expire more quickly.


----------



## wildvines

If I burnt the yeast should I add another packet? Or wait another day


----------



## ckvchestnut

wildvines said:


> If I burnt the yeast should I add another packet? Or wait another day



If you did burn the yeast you could go ahead and put more in right away. But my yeast pkg says the water can be 110 degrees F... so are you sure that you burned it? did it foam up at all prior to you putting it in the must?


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> Btw I found the post on the milk complete with instructions and pics. Post #27 by jswordy on the "labels that peel off easily" thread!



Thanks. Got it.


----------



## wildvines

ckvchestnut said:


> If you did burn the yeast you could go ahead and put more in right away. But my yeast pkg says the water can be 110 degrees F... so are you sure that you burned it? did it foam up at all prior to you putting it in the must?




I can barely remember lol but it did have a top layer of foam. Just weird. I decided to stir it up and close the lid and put an air lock to see if a build up of c02 is present. After I closed the lid there was no pressure. Now when I touch the to of the lid a barley press down on it the airlock bubbles. So could that be a sign at all?


----------



## knockabout

hmmm, sounds to me like you might have to repitch your yeast. I start my yeast in a little cup of warm -not hot water and add 1 tsp of sugar, mix then wait about 15-20 min. if it's foaming I throw it all in and mix it up! my thoughts are if you are not sure, you probably need to add another packet of yeast. IMHO...
Good luck!


----------



## wildvines

knockabout said:


> hmmm, sounds to me like you might have to repitch your yeast. I start my yeast in a little cup of warm -not hot water and add 1 tsp of sugar, mix then wait about 15-20 min. if it's foaming I throw it all in and mix it up! my thoughts are if you are not sure, you probably need to add another packet of yeast. IMHO...
> 
> Good luck!




Thanks. I will prob do that. Would it work if I put a cup of warm water mix it with bit of the must?


----------



## Winenoob66

wildvines said:


> I really can't say it wasn't hot enough to burn my finger when placed in it. I only have the stick on temp maybe I guess I burnt them. Should I pitch another tune after u give it 24 more hours of sitting without change?



no give it 24 hrs if it didn't burn your finger then you should be ok.

When I rehydrate I add about a cup of luke warm water, a couple of tsp of sugar to a small glass that has been cleaned and sanitized, stir it to disolve the sugar and then add the yeast give it bout 10 or 15 minutes till you see the foam starting good. That tells you the yeasties are active then I pitch it in the primary


----------



## wildvines

Winenoob66 said:


> no give it 24 hrs if it didn't burn your finger then you should be ok.
> 
> 
> 
> When I rehydrate I add about a cup of luke warm water, a couple of tsp of sugar to a small glass that has been cleaned and sanitized, stir it to disolve the sugar and then add the yeast give it bout 10 or 15 minutes till you see the foam starting good. That tells you the yeasties are active then I pitch it in the primary




I just looked again and after I putting hot water in an empty bucket and placing the primary in that bucket and covered it with towels we finally have bubbles in the air lock. So I'm guessing I'm good and it started. I only placed the air lock and closed the lid to verify if it is. 

So I think I don't have to re pitch the yeast. I will use your method for my next batch.


----------



## Winenoob66

your good to go now if ya got bubbles


----------



## wildvines

Winenoob66 said:


> your good to go now if ya got bubbles




Now I'm excited lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

good luck with your ferment!


----------



## dangerdave

Glad you got it going, wildvines. Patience is an important ingredient in wine making. I'm still working on mine.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Patience, i did not see that in the recipe ingredients...thats good, because i am all out....never had much to start with...lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dave...i have a new housekeeper, and when she came by saturday to meet me and look at the house, etc....I had a 6 gallon batch of original on the counter.....she asked what it was and I told it was dragon blood....
She looked at me and said, there aint no such thing as a dragon.
I told her, that not in the US but in Scotland, and you have to get a permit to hunt them.
I went on and on with her , finally i gave in and told her what it was, gave her a bottle, we opened a bottle and tasted.
She, looked at me real seriously, and said, Can you get more permits for scotland....LOL


----------



## dangerdave

Now that's funny right there! But you better hide your wine while she's cleaning!


----------



## Terri

Hi Dave,
We are on our first batch of DB. We completed step 4 added the sparkaloid 10 days ago, racked again 3 days ago. It is still quite cloudy. Is there anything else we should be doing to get it to clear or do we just need to be patient?


----------



## dangerdave

Terri, there are several reasons why wines do not clear. The most common reason is pectin haze, resolved by adding pectic enzyme. Even if you added it in the primary fermenter, another dose won't affect the wine at all. Excess gas (CO2) can also prevent clearing. If the wine is not degassed completely, it will not clear quickly. Check it for gas and degas again if necessary.

Also, sometimes certain batches will just take longer to clear. I've had batches clear in a few days, and others that too weeks. Who knows why! If all else fails (and you don't want to add anything else), it will clear over time all on it's own. You could just let it sit.

Good luck!


----------



## jamesngalveston

If not clear in a week I would add degass again, and add some pectin, if it still isnt clear, I would just let it sit...are add some super kleer....


----------



## barbl72

ckvchestnut said:


> OMG Barb! I love it! Looks so good! Te colour is awesome and the labels are fab! Yours appears lighter in colour than my ruby red stuff do you use the triple berry blend? Congrats!



Yes - used the triple berry - the color is darker in real life!


----------



## Terri

dangerdave said:


> Terri, there are several reasons why wines do not clear. The most common reason is pectin haze, resolved by adding pectic enzyme. Even if you added it in the primary fermenter, another dose won't affect the wine at all. Excess gas (CO2) can also prevent clearing. If the wine is not degassed completely, it will not clear quickly. Check it for gas and degas again if necessary.
> 
> Also, sometimes certain batches will just take longer to clear. I've had batches clear in a few days, and others that too weeks. Who knows why! If all else fails (and you don't want to add anything else), it will clear over time all on it's own. You could just let it sit.
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks for the info Dave. My husband Mark added another dose of pectin enzyme last night. Another thought that Mark had was he thinks he might have done the sparkalloid wrong. He added it to boiling water and stirred it and waited 15 minutes. He realized last night that he should have simmered it for the 15 minutes, do you think this may be the cause? If so, with time will it still clear?


----------



## PAFruitWines

Here is my first batch of Triple Berry DB. It is much clearer than it looks in this pic. There was a 4th gal but I'm not sure what happened to it ;-). I used 1 lb of fruit per gallon and 1/4 cup sugar per gallon to back sweeten and I'm happy with the results. 

I want to start a 5 gal batch next week using real lime, 6 lb frozen strawberries and 4 lb fresh mangos. Any idea how much flavor these fruits will contribute compared to the berries?
Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have made a strawberry/mango and it was very good....
if you want to make a good batch..I would use 12 lbs of strawberrys, and at least 12 of mango...both are light on flavor just making a normal one fruit batch.
Mango is real light..
I did a 6 gallon batch with 50 lbs of mangos, and it still did not have the flavor i wanted..ended up using mango juice to get some flavor.
and with a mango/strawberry you will have a ton of lees.
a 5 gallon batch, will end up at about 4 are less.
The mango virtually will be all lees..


----------



## PAFruitWines

I have to rethink this. Not sure I want to lose that much wine and not get much flavor. Might just eat mangos 4 a few days. I have a week to decide. 




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----------



## jamesngalveston

dont get me wrong, the mango wine was good...but i think this year, i will look for a mango puree, are mango juice...should not be as much lees that way.
mango,peach,pineapple...all throw out tons of lees, and it takes huge amounts of fruit to get the flavor.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

Just thought I would update on my last batch of DB. I used 8 lbs of blackberries and 12 cans of Welches grape juice concentrate. It came out good...but not much of the blackberry flavor. So I put 3 lbs of blackberries in a 3 gallon car boy and filled it up and it has been sitting for 5 weeks. I just back sweetened the remainder and bottled it. So my patience finally evaporated and we tasted it....it is my best wine so far. I am going to try and duplicate it. Thanks, Dave, for your DB forum!


----------



## SmokeyMcBong

Hey all, I just had a quick question about this recipe.

I've been putting little amounts of fruit into a container in my freezer for a while now and have enough put aside to make a slightly bastardized version of Daves Dragons Blood. 

My question is this, do i have to nuke the must with campden for the initial 24hrs? or will this kill the pectic enzyme? maybe I should campden nuke the water 24hrs before making the must? 

This will only be my 3rd fermentation and only my second wine. I'm assuming (I know the dangers of this lol) that a campden cleanse is necessary because it had to be done for the pee/ade recipe thats in secondary now.

Looking foward to your responses as I'm waiting on some clarification before I can start a batch. Thanks to all in advance!


----------



## JetJockey

SmokeyMcBong said:


> Hey all, I just had a quick question about this recipe.
> 
> I've been putting little amounts of fruit into a container in my freezer for a while now and have enough put aside to make a slightly bastardized version of Daves Dragons Blood.
> 
> My question is this, do i have to nuke the must with campden for the initial 24hrs? or will this kill the pectic enzyme? maybe I should campden nuke the water 24hrs before making the must?
> 
> This will only be my 3rd fermentation and only my second wine. I'm assuming (I know the dangers of this lol) that a campden cleanse is necessary because it had to be done for the pee/ade recipe thats in secondary now.
> 
> Looking foward to your responses as I'm waiting on some clarification before I can start a batch. Thanks to all in advance!



Smokey,
I used 9 3/4# of fresh fruit instead of store bought frozen fruit. The fruit was frozen (helps to brake down fruit and cell walls). I thawed the fruit and then added a 1/4 tsp of kmeta to the fruit/juice mix, stirred up, and let stand 24 hours. This will kill the natural yeasties! I then poured the fruit/juice mix into a nylon straining bag with the juice pouring through into my primary. I then tied the bag of fruit and set it aside to continue with making the must according to DangerDave's recipe.

I noticed the word "nuke" and I assumed that you meant to kill the natural yeast on the fresh fruit. Maybe you meant thaw in the microwave? If so, thawing in the microwave also helps break down the fruit, so it's OK to microwave and use kmeta to kill the yeast.


----------



## SmokeyMcBong

JetJockey said:


> Smokey,
> I used 9 3/4# of fresh fruit instead of store bought frozen fruit. The fruit was frozen (helps to brake down fruit and cell walls). I thawed the fruit and then added a 1/4 tsp of kmeta to the fruit/juice mix, stirred up, and let stand 24 hours. This will kill the natural yeasties! I then poured the fruit/juice mix into a nylon straining bag with the juice pouring through into my primary. I then tied the bag of fruit and set it aside to continue with making the must according to DangerDave's recipe.
> 
> I noticed the word "nuke" and I assumed that you meant to kill the natural yeast on the fresh fruit. Maybe you meant thaw in the microwave? If so, thawing in the microwave also helps break down the fruit, so it's OK to microwave and use kmeta to kill the yeast.



Thanks for the quick reply brother.

By using the term "nuke", I meant to murder all the natural yeasts and bacteria on the fresh (frozen then thawed) fruit. I will also need campden to remove stabilized chlorine from my water so I may just add the fruit (in a bag) to the water (mixed with some frozen juice concentrate) and add the campden to the works. I've read other recipes that call for the pectic enzyme addition 12 hours after the campden, then the yeast 12 hours after the pectic enzyme (24 hours after the campden). 

Sound like it should work?


----------



## JetJockey

I added both the kmeta and the pectin enzyme to a small primary. Then I added the thawed fruit/juice (in straining bag) , then waited a day. This allowed the pectin enzyme to start working on the fruit and the kmeta to kill the natural yeasties. I then removed the fruit bag and made the must according to directions. I didn't have a day between the kmeta and pectin enzyme. I don't think that adding an extra day between the kmeta and pectin enzyme will hurt anything. Patience is a virtue in wine making - something I'm trying to improve on myself!

I have spring water, so I don't know about how to get rid of the chlorine. I have also purchased 5 gallons of spring water at Wal-Mart to make my must. Neither had chlorine.

Good luck!


----------



## Rosa321

Well.......hopefully all is well!
Degassing was a PAIN! lol
But the SG was 0.990 for three days so I degassed and degassed and degassed some more...........for hours..........
And then transferred. Once I added the clearing stuff, it was like magic! It really started clearing right in front of me.

It's my first batch....I"m following the recipe to a T (or at least trying to!)
Hopefully all will be well and in a week or so I can transfer and bottle.....


----------



## JetJockey

Rosa,
How well does that KitchenAid degas for you ? It looks good!


----------



## jamesngalveston

The chance of you getting a wild yeast is nill...exspecially if you start fermenting in 2 to 3 days after you pull it out of the freezer.
I freeze everything.. this is what i do.
I pull fruit out of the freezer and into a open top carboy.
I add water to cover.
I add pectin for a 3 5 are 6 gallon are better batch.
Let sit for 24 hours.
I add all other chemicals, NO k-meta are campden.
I monitor temp, and when its 60 i add the remainder of water and take hydrometer reading.
I add sugar to get to what ever sg i want.
I ferment to dry, rack with k-meta/campden added.
I clear it, sorbate it based on abv and backsweeten, clear and bottle.


----------



## JetJockey

James,
Why no kmeta for fresh fruit?


----------



## jamesngalveston

Im not saying not to use,. its pretty much up to you.
For me, there is little chance that the triple berry are etc, will start fermenting are go bad in a few days..less chance if its frozen.
Not sure how long it takes for bacteria to start growing, but I think it would be more then 3 are 4, and by then, I would have in ferment stage.
I quess if you let the berries sit a week , they may go bad.
Not a lot of wild yeast on frozen fruits either.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I didn't suphite my blueberry peach batch either cuz they were store bought frozen fruit and canned fruit. I will right before bottling though.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Actually will probably do it at racking to secondary because I plan to bulk age it as it's going to be a port style. Then again at bottling.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i add my at racking from primary to secondary, always.
and if i bottle within a week, i dont add again....at 14 percent alcohol...not much chance of referment, are going bad.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya and mine might get over 20% it went from 1.130 to 1.001 in 3 or 4 days. I decided to step feed it sugar and have brought it from 1.000 to 1.010 3 times now. We'll see when these yeasties finally decide to quit!


----------



## reefman

ckvchestnut said:


> Actually will probably do it at racking to secondary because I plan to bulk age it as it's going to be a port style. Then again at bottling.



I bulk age everything...mainly because I'm lazy and hate to bottle. 
My Chocolate Candy Cane has been aging for a year now, it gets bottled for Valentines day. I'll be home alone all that weekend, and I plan to bottle 3 batches that have been bulk aging for 6 months to a year.
One is a DB batch, so I comply with the thread topic.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I love to bottle....its always a party, with plenty of helpers...lol


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> I didn't suphite my blueberry peach batch either cuz they were store bought frozen fruit and canned fruit. I will right before bottling though.



I only sulphite fresh home grown fruit, such as my blueberries even though they were frozen. I choose to sulphite to kill any wild yeast that may cause off flavors not to preserve them or keep them going bad before fermentation. I thought his original question was regarding fresh fruit, as opposed to store bought frozen or canned fruit. The later usually has some preservative used in their processing.


----------



## jojabri

jamesngalveston said:


> I love to bottle....its always a party, with plenty of helpers...lol



I WISH! All I get is my 4 year old and my 11 year old. The 11 year old pretends he's He-Man strong while pushing the corker. The 4 yr old likes to try to cork but can't do it, so we help her and she seems accomplished.
I suppose I'll take any help as opposed to none.


----------



## SmokeyMcBong

yup JetJockey, I was talking about fresh fruit that i had frozen at home.

I've got all the ingredients laid out in front of me as I type this. I'm gonna mash-up between this recipe and a lemonade recipe from homebrewtalk. I'll likely start a separate thread as I'm not really making this recipe but just getting a lot of inspiration from it. Thanks for the help and advice people.


----------



## Rosa321

JetJockey said:


> Rosa,
> How well does that KitchenAid degas for you ? It looks good!



lol I wish!!!! Any inventor friends know how I could hook that kitchen aid up to do the work for Me? haha


----------



## reefman

jamesngalveston said:


> I love to bottle....its always a party, with plenty of helpers...lol



Well, my wife will drink my wine, but has not lifted a finger to help!!
We are in the planning stage of moving to a new house, and I laid down the law...this new house will have a wine cellar, even it it's in the attic!
It's probably going to be in the garage.


----------



## freeze06

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Wine Making mobile app


----------



## SmokeyMcBong

freeze06 said:


> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Wine Making mobile app



well put brother!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yes that's right! Sorry I think I got lost somewhere all the way about what was being talked about lol


----------



## wildvines

reefman said:


> Well, my wife will drink my wine, but has not lifted a finger to help!!
> We are in the planning stage of moving to a new house, and I laid down the law...this new house will have a wine cellar, even it it's in the attic!
> It's probably going to be in the garage.




I convinced my wife in getting a room dedicated to a wine cellar/ taste room/ wine making room. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## wildvines

Looking at houses to buy in the summer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## ckvchestnut

Awesome! I would like to make my walk up attic into my winemaking room but keeping it cool would be interesting. Maybe I can transform our basement one day lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

you have to keep something cool up there....dang, i thought you were in the artic.


----------



## jojabri

Highly contemplating what you'd come out with if you used only blackberry? I found 1LB bags on sale for $2.50 each. At that price it might be worth it just to experiment and still put some back for using later.

And I BTW, I'm so jealous of people who have a dedicated space. I'm all cramped up in this apartment, but making do with what spaces I can squirrel stuff away in.


----------



## jamesngalveston

what do you mean what you would come up with.
if you use less fruit, it will be like a Beaujolais
if you use a lot of fruit it will be more like a Bordeaux.
Depends on how dry are wet, you want it.
All totaled I have done about 75 gallons of black berry wine in the dragon blood style.
Beaujolais, i use lemon.
The Bordeaux, I dont use lemon.
Either one is an excellent wine.


----------



## jamesngalveston

And for the record....My first wine was a blackberry and it was good.
I found daves dragon blood, made it and it was good.
I started with almost 500 lbs of black berries i had in the freezer.
Trying different recipes, etc...None was as good as a straight black berry made like dragon blood.
I have made so many variants i can not even count them.
I have none left in the freezer, I am getting ready for march are april harvest, where I will turn all of it into wine.. and port wine.
I hope to have at least 900 lbs this year........
half will go to blackberry dragon blood, and half to a port wine.
Next to grapes, blackberries are the best.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> you have to keep something cool up there....dang, i thought you were in the artic.




Haha very funny James lol and I have a polar bear for a pet too


----------



## jamesngalveston

well, at least you dont have to shoe it...LOL


----------



## ckvchestnut

Oh James, what are we going to do with you?? Lol


----------



## dangerdave

The blackberry DB version is also one of my favorates. Well, they're ALL good, but the blackberry is a good unto itself. If you haven't tried a batch, I (and James, I'm sure) strongly recommend it.


----------



## ckvchestnut

So many choices lol! So exact same recipe same amt of lemon etc?


----------



## jamesngalveston

yes sir my friend, i certainly do recommend it.


----------



## dangerdave

ckvchestnut said:


> So many choices lol! So exact same recipe same amt of lemon etc?


 

That's the way I made it. Remember, the amount of fruit will dictate the level of flavor. After my first batch (six pounds of fruit), I made another using nine pounds. There was a noticeable difference. Both were good, just on a different level. When I make another, I will go with twelve pounds of fruit. Still economical, yet more flavorful.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks Dave! This is on my list now!


----------



## jojabri

Okay, consider me Talked into. As if I needed to be talked into! There is a limit of 6 on the berries so I got 6 today, will get 6 more tomorrow and the day after that... etc til I am either broke, out of storage space or they run out. 

I've turned into a mad-woman!


----------



## jamesngalveston

carolyn you are too easy...LOL.....
do one and I will show you how to do a blackberry port that will knock your nickers off.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Easy peasy! Ya I was already thinking about that idea after reading your post! I'm going to have to go shopping for more fruit this weekend. Hmmm I wonder if I'll have to do 2 batches separately.


----------



## PAFruitWines

I have 3 gal triple berry DB cleared and added kmeta and sorbate. I want to stash it 4 a few months. I just found 2.5 lbs blueberries in the freezer. They were fresh and unprocessed local that I rinsed and froze. They have been frozen for months. 

I want to age the wine in gal jugs with the blueberries. Do I have to do anything to them 1st? How much per gallon? 
Thanks!


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----------



## sour_grapes

James, look what is "on deck" on my bucket list (link below)


----------



## jamesngalveston

well you finally joining tha pawtie....lol
double the fruit, and enjoy.....


----------



## dangerdave

I didn't see you on that page, Paul. Where you at? 

Note to self...update wine list!


----------



## dangerdave

PAFruitWines said:


> I have 3 gal triple berry DB cleared and added kmeta and sorbate. I want to stash it 4 a few months. I just found 2.5 lbs blueberries in the freezer. They were fresh and unprocessed local that I rinsed and froze. They have been frozen for months.
> 
> I want to age the wine in gal jugs with the blueberries. Do I have to do anything to them 1st? How much per gallon?
> Thanks!


 
Microwave them to thaw them out. I used three pounds in six gallons when I did this. Turned out great! So, try about half a pound per gallon. Don't forget to add the juices, too!

Good luck!


----------



## sour_grapes

dangerdave said:


> I didn't see you on that page, Paul. Where you at?
> 
> Note to self...update wine list!



Dave: I am at post #524. 

I have had problems with some other people's links. I _think_ the problem is that the URL refers to a page number; however, some people's settings have different numbers of items per page than others, making this reference invalid.  indeed!


----------



## sour_grapes

Dave, I made a modification to the URL in my signature. Can you tell me if the _second_ version of my link works?
Thanks!


----------



## ckvchestnut

I don't see any links? Is it because I'm on the app version? No signature


----------



## jamesngalveston

heres what it says:

On Deck:
(Going to squeeze a batch of Dragon Blood in here.)
CC Showcase Yakima Valley Cabernet Shiraz
CC Showcase Walla Walla Cabernet Merlot
CC Showcase Argentinian Malbec
WE LE Oregon Pinot Noir (on pre-order)


----------



## jamesngalveston

Ive been trying to get him to try just one batch....


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks James... It was because I was on the app on my phone... no signatures. Just one batch of DB?? LOL I'm looking forward to getting started on blackberry DB!


----------



## jamesngalveston

..I am trying to get him to make a batch and see if i convert him to like it...LOL


----------



## ckvchestnut

Who wouldn't!! I like good wines just the same as the next person but this stuff is tasty too and easy to make and the pro is that it does give us newbies without a lot of stock, to drink something while we wait for our other wines to age. And to be honest I love my big reds etc but on a hot and sweltering day, I can just picture having a cold DB in my hand as opposed to a heavy wine that will dehydrate me quickly! There are lots of pros to having DB on hand!


----------



## jamesngalveston

my sister gets hers cold and puts fruit in it...its good like that on a hot day..which you dont have many of.


----------



## JetJockey

sour_grapes said:


> Dave, I made a modification to the URL in my signature. Can you tell me if the _second_ version of my link works?
> Thanks!



Paul,
Both links take me to the same post #524, which starts:
Well, it is a modest start, but ya gotta start somewhere!

Bottled:
CC Sterling Merlot
WE Mezza Luna Red
CC Showcase Amarone
CC Showcase Lodi Old Vines Zinfandel

Bulk aging:
CC Showcase Red Mountain Cabernet
WE Selection International Argentine Malbec


----------



## justmike

Hey Everyone,

I've been lurking for a few months now. Nothing important to really add, I just wanted to say that I've made a batch of Dragon Blood and my wife, friends, and family have all really enjoyed it. It's great stuff! Amazing how fast you can go through 23L of wine


----------



## JetJockey

Welcome to the forum! Glad to hear that you had a terrific DB experience. Now you'll have to go get some more carboys to keep a couple batches going at once. Experiment and try different flavors! If you need help, just ask!

Good luck!


----------



## wildvines

Those damn carboys are grimalins!


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----------



## bkisel

justmike said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I've been lurking for a few months now. Nothing important to really add, I just wanted to say that I've made a batch of Dragon Blood and my wife, friends, and family have all really enjoyed it. It's great stuff! Amazing how fast you can go through 23L of wine



Welcome to WMT!

Why not post in the Introductions forum so more of us can greet you?


----------



## oreoman

Ok-- it seems like we must be the first. Just racked our original recipe DB. Used 6 pounds of fruit. Followed to the T. 
Had about 1/2 gallon that didn't fit in carboy so we decided to play around. 
We backsweetened to where we would like it but just not getting any flavor. Can tell there is alcohol .
We still have to clear and filter our carboy so is there anything we can do to bring out some fruity flavor ?
I want to start TD but am afraid. I think I should add more fruit than original recipe -- maybe?

Don't hate me!! . Just some suggestions please. 


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----------



## wildvines

Ckvchestnut did bring a point up to me. Dangerdave told her that the fruit flavors come out layer in the process and or when bottling. 


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----------



## oreoman

Thanks wildvines!! That makes me feel better. 


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----------



## wildvines

You could always tinker with it with adding more fruits in the bag and add it for flavor. I my self am a newbie and enjoy tweaking things. The members here are great and can give you a wealth of knowledge. You can stay on the path and you can always add more flavor if needed. But everyone loves the original DB


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----------



## wildvines

You could always tinker with it if need be. I my self am a newbie but enjoy tweaking things following guidelines of other members past experiences. You can add a fruit bag for flavors if needed. But seems like many love the original recipe for DB. So after completed you can work with what you tasted more fruit, more ABV or less etc


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----------



## ckvchestnut

Yes that's what I heard the fruit flavor should come forward more once it's bottled and had time to meld! I personally use a touch more fruit. But I'm sure Dave will chime in here when he has a chance he's the expert after all in the original recipe!


----------



## ou8amaus

Based on recommendations from this forum i boiled down about a pound of fruit and then strained until i ended up with about a cup of concentrate. That along with a little extra sugar REALLY boosted the final flavor. I have a blueberry db in the works and plan on back sweetening with a blueberry concentrate they sell at ikea. Boosting the fruit while sweetening has produced great results...


----------



## datcv

My second batch of DB-ish wine is nearly done (3 gal). This is the "trash can" wine where I emptied all of the frozen fruit from my freezer (including apple cores, many berries, mangos, pineapple...).

I think my next batch will be a pure raspberry. I wish I could find frozen black raspberries!


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----------



## bkisel

Bentonite? I don't see Bentonite as part of the DB recipe. Did a search and on WMT read a whole lot about Bentonite but did not read anything that makes it clear to me whether using Bentonite (in the primary as I've done with all my kits) would be a good or a bad thing for making DB. Any opinions?

Thanx...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Bentonite is not in the recipe and not needed. You can clear with super Kleer (kieselsol & chitosan) or sparkolloid as specified. After fermenting is done.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Not sure you couldnt, most clear db at the end with sparkoloid are super kleer.
its your wine..do what you think is good for you.


----------



## ckvchestnut

ou8amaus said:


> Based on recommendations from this forum i boiled down about a pound of fruit and then strained until i ended up with about a cup of concentrate. That along with a little extra sugar REALLY boosted the final flavor. I have a blueberry db in the works and plan on back sweetening with a blueberry concentrate they sell at ikea. Boosting the fruit while sweetening has produced great results...




They sell blueberry concentrate at ikea? Cool! How much? Why don't you just make your own again with blueberries? That's what I was going to do for my blueberry peach port


----------



## jamesngalveston

Carolyn, bentonite really helps in clearing if used and mixed correctly.
some add at beginning of ferment, some after it starts fermenting.
but it does help.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya I know... But it's still not in the recipe and no one does both do they? It do they use bentonite before fermenting and then another fining agent after? I know people do this with kits and other wines but hadn't heard of ppl doing this with DB?


----------



## JetJockey

Dave did a study on using bentonite in the original thread. The results were that it was not needed in the primary, if I recall. You can search for his test.


----------



## oreoman

When did you add the fruit concentrate ? Can I add right before filtering-- or does it need to settle?


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----------



## ckvchestnut

Wow I read that whole thread and must have missed that. It's a lot of reading lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

jet jockey your correct....it is not needed at all, but .........
i have done both...bentonite in primary, and superkleer at end of ferment.
cleared faster then without, but i had a lot more lees left in primary.
which was fine for me..


----------



## PoppaCork

MAD MANGO fermenting.
Day 3. Listen to the bubbling... 
Used 30 lbs. of frozen mango chunks to make 6 - gallons wine. 
No lemon juice, using acid blend. 
Day 1 the starting SG was 1.1, on Day 3 it is 1.086 
EC-1118 yeast.
The smell is outstanding!
Only wish I had more mangos to start with(expensive around here)... if I need to back sweeten with a concentrate, then that's what I'll do.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUpmfcbilXk[/ame]


----------



## jamesngalveston

do you have 6 gallons of water in that must.


----------



## PoppaCork

jamesngalveston said:


> do you have 6 gallons of water in that must.



Yes I do. 890


----------



## ou8amaus

ckvchestnut said:


> They sell blueberry concentrate at ikea? Cool! How much? Why don't you just make your own again with blueberries? That's what I was going to do for my blueberry peach port



They sell a 500ml blueberry drink concentrate for about 4$. Contains 50% concentrated blueberry juice, sugar, water, and citric acid. I would make my own but i had the bottle lying around anyways... (Swedish mom so invariably i have way too much ikea stuff in the house...)


----------



## ckvchestnut

That's funny! Ya if I had it laying around I would have used it too. I looked around for bb concentrate online and it's far to expensive for my tastes. I'd rather pay $10 at Walmart for a 1.75kg bag of fruit.


----------



## jamesngalveston

you are so frugal...lol.
i love picking on you...lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

Haha! That's probably why I started making my own wine... I am frugal but NOTHING compared to my husband. I LOVE expensive wines but NOT the price. Then I figured out pretty quickly that I could make better wines at home than most cheap, yucky wines from the store. That coupled with being a creative type made me go down the winemaking route. FUN! You can pick on me all you want! I grew up in a teasy type family. I'm used to it lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

i know what you mean..ive been collecting fine port wines for many years..
and thought that it had to have been made some magical people.
I doubt i will be buying any more.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

When I went to my local wine making shop (local being 150 miles away) they did not have any EC-1118, but they did have EC-1116 yeast. Will this work also in a Dragon's Blood?


----------



## Johngottshall

fabrictodyefor said:


> When I went to my local wine making shop (local being 150 miles away) they did not have any EC-1118, but they did have EC-1116 yeast. Will this work also in a Dragon's Blood?



Yes that will work I used K1-V1116 on my batch that I just filtered.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Johngottshall , looks like you need to bottle, and taste test a bunch.
Nice looking wine you have there..


----------



## Johngottshall

jamesngalveston said:


> Johngottshall , looks like you need to bottle, and taste test a bunch.
> Nice looking wine you have there..



LOL thanks James one of these days I will bottle it when its in bulk it last longer.


----------



## ckvchestnut

You can make your own... And honestly even though fruit port style isn't a true port... I think i read this on another thread, it's unique and you can't find it in stores.


----------



## jamesngalveston

the true ports were thought to come from Oporto. Portugal. Hence the name (port). there has been thousands of bottles of port made in the port style.
meaning fortified with brandy....
both steve, (vacuumpumpman) and collect ports and are avid drinkers.
he makes his own, as I do.
I think they are excellent, in blackberry and white peach.


----------



## vacuumpumpman

jamesngalveston said:


> the true ports were thought to come from Oporto. Portugal. Hence the name (port). there has been thousands of bottles of port made in the port style.
> meaning fortified with brandy....
> both steve, (vacuumpumpman) and collect ports and are avid drinkers.
> he makes his own, as I do.
> I think they are excellent, in blackberry and white peach.



James 
I could of not said it any better ! Nice Job !
We opened one up last night - and it was smooth as it could be - especially up here in all these cold and winterly conditions.


----------



## jamesngalveston

well buddy, that will help you stay warm, was just about to call you.


----------



## PAFruitWines

Hi James, reading thru other threads I seen U post about making DB using frozen concentrate. Do U use them just to replace the fruit? What amounts have U used?
Thanks, Mike


----------



## jamesngalveston

instead of fruit i use frozen concentrate in the amount of 4 cans per gallon.
so if am making a 6 gallon batch i use 24 cans, and fill bucket to the 6 gallon mark....
after that everything else is the same.


----------



## dangerdave

Wow! You guys are prolific with your posting. Get busy for a couple of days and...blam! Lots of posts to read.

So, were there any posts I _really_ needed to field?  I'm sorry if I missed anyone's questions.


----------



## wildvines

What do you guys think? I put saint Jorge slaying the dragon. My father gave me my middle name after him so I thought it would be nice to add it. Only problem is that my dragon blood is going to be 13.5 % ABV not 12.5. I made a booboo. I can order new labels. 

Later I will post the way I am making my DB so far. I took a right turn during fermentation and tested something out. It seemed to really workout


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----------



## jamesngalveston

13.5 is good..i try to get that are 14 most times.
what did you test, interested to see if it is something that i have not done.
thanks for your post.
labels look good.


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> Wow! You guys are prolific with your posting. Get busy for a couple of days and...blam! Lots of posts to read.
> 
> So, were there any posts I _really_ needed to field?  I'm sorry if I missed anyone's questions.



I've got two now... What might a bit a of oaking do to the flavor of DB? Is oaking a tweak that should not be done with fruit wines?

Edit: Oops, second question answered with a quick search. Consensus in a another thread, "oak in fruit wine??", seems to be it is simply a matter of taste.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I have not used oak in any db...I started reading about it, and decided i want my fruit wine to taste like fruit that I started with.
I never liked wine from the store for the oak taste, so I am not using.
You may like it with oak...
For me its like eating a piece of blackberry pie, and biting into a piece of oak lumber...not for me.


----------



## wildvines

What I did was not to drastic. But half way through fermentation I noticed my fruit bag was basically empty at a SG of 1.020. I decided to put in a fresh bag of 3 pounds of mixed fruit. I squeezed it a lot and left it in there for 3 days. I checked my SG it is at .990. I noticed it seemed to layer the wine and feed the yeast better. 


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----------



## jamesngalveston

ok, thanks....


----------



## roger80465

Ok. So I am ready to start a batch of DB using 6 lbs of the Organic Triple Berry blend from Costco. I have a Blendtec blender and am thinking about liquefying the fruit rather than just crushing it. What do you think? Any words of wisdom? Any adjustments to the recipe? I hope to start the process on Friday and would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks


----------



## oreoman

I don't know about blending it but I do know that I would use more than 6 pounds. I found there was not enough berry flavor with the 6 pounds. Just my opinion. 


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----------



## jamesngalveston

with that blendec your going to get the bitterness from the seeds...
If you add pectin enzyme to your must, in 3 days there will be nothing left of the strawberrys, except the seeds, I mean nothing...it will be a bag of seeds when you remove.


----------



## dangerdave

I have used oak in my DB before. I couldn't tell much of a difference. My current batch---which is nearly clear---was blasted with a lot of untoasted oak in the primary. I was intentionally trying to over-oak it to see what deep oak flavor (not just a little) would taste like with the berries. Outcome pending...

Like James said, I'd avoid the blender. On the surface it might sound like a good idea, but if you break up some of the seeds in the process---like James said---you will get some bitterness from the seeds. The pectic enzyme will take care of that fruit. Just squeeze.

And wildvines, I really like the label with St. George the Dragon Slayer. I hadn't thought of him for a label. Good choice.


----------



## roger80465

Thanks for the info guys. I will refrain from blending. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Wine Making mobile app


----------



## ckvchestnut

wildvines said:


> View attachment 13662
> 
> 
> What do you guys think? I put saint Jorge slaying the dragon. My father gave me my middle name after him so I thought it would be nice to add it. Only problem is that my dragon blood is going to be 13.5 % ABV not 12.5. I made a booboo. I can order new labels.
> 
> Later I will post the way I am making my DB so far. I took a right turn during fermentation and tested something out. It seemed to really workout
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Really love the label! I'm looking forward to doing my next DB batch! Gave half of my last batch away and we kind of got into some of ours this past weekend - never fails!


----------



## wildvines

Just by talking to people they already want some if my DB. I said well $10 a bottle to cover cost lol. They agreed but I will let them have a few. I need to make sure meets standards first. 


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----------



## ckvchestnut

I'm just giving to family an friends. I gave my dad a case as a gift. Then he wanted me to make some batches of other wines from kits. I said sure but you have to give me some bottles out of each batch for my time. So I have a Pinot Gris and Gewurtztraminer going currently and Liebfraumilch and Sauvignon waiting... I'm more of a red wine lover but I used to drink a fair amt of whites. I'll see how well these turn out.


----------



## wildvines

I love me some reds! But been drink a bit more whites. Have some chards from aubert vineyards. Going to let them sit fir bit. Sale most and keep a few


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----------



## Winenoob66

Hey Wildvines are you licensed to sale alcohol? Reason I ask isn't to be a smarta$$ I just wanted to let you know that if your not licensed it is illegal to sale home brew, and I wouldn't want anyone getting into trouble.


----------



## wildvines

Winenoob66 said:


> Hey Wildvines are you licensed to sale alcohol? Reason I ask isn't to be a smarta$$ I just wanted to let you know that if your not licensed it is illegal to sale home brew, and I wouldn't want anyone getting into trouble.




Hey thanks for the heads up. But yes I do. I have a 4cop license but not for my house. It's under my name for a building I have. I owned a night club for a while and also have 5 acres of Malbec newly planted in Mendoza argentina. So did research on that. But I don't want to sake anything anyways. I just as joking. I did tell them if they pay for the kits , fruits , and additives I can make them batches and just keep some bottles. Maybe late on I might want to sell but not anytime soon. 



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----------



## wildvines

Ment I don't wNt to sale anything and I WS just joking with my friends and colleagues. 


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----------



## Winenoob66

from what I have heard you can accept donations, but I wouldn't swear to it being true or not.


----------



## wildvines

I heard something like that. I just want to make decent to really good wine and share my passion to others. I read most of all the threads and just see the passion the members of WMT bring and I just want a piece of that. 


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----------



## bkisel

Question: Doses the bag for the fruit have to by nylon? Can it be a cheese cloth bag or will the pectic enzyme eat the cheese cloth?

Thanx...


----------



## ckvchestnut

I don't think the cheese cloth would get eaten but maybe over time yes it could break down. But never tried so I really don't know for sure! But I do find that the holes in cheesecloth can get kind of stretched so I imagine you'd end up with more pulp in your wine... Just a guess!


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> I don't think the cheese cloth would get eaten but maybe over time yes it could break down. But never tried so I really don't know for sure! But I do find that the holes in cheesecloth can get kind of stretched so I imagine you'd end up with more pulp in your wine... Just a guess!



Thanks. What is a good source for the nylon bag? I think I've read here about some sort of bag that painters use to strain/filter their paint. My LHBS carries cheese cloth bags but I don't know about nylon.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Check the fermentation bag cleaning thread! Tons of info on nylon bags!

Check post 43 I think.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

bkisel said:


> Thanks. What is a good source for the nylon bag? I think I've read here about some sort of bag that painters use to strain/filter their paint. My LHBS carries cheese cloth bags but I don't know about nylon.



I do use the painters bags that I got at Home Depot. I used and reused many times and they seem to hold up well. I keep them in my washer and wash them with the rest of my laundry several times, then I soak them in Oxy Clean soap (in the green container) and water solution, then soak them in sanitizing solution. 

Has anyone ever used Knudsen brand juices for making wine? It is 100% juice with "sufficient filtered water to reconstitute the Blueberrry Juice concentrate" Normally this is a little pricey, but a local store has it on sale and I have a coupon, so it brings the price down. Each bottle is 1 quart....I want to make a straight blueberry and have 8 quarts of this juice, how many lbs of blueberries should I add to the juice? to make a 6 gallon batch? ....james, would love for you to jump in here as I do prefer the double fruit DB's. Thanks


----------



## Johngottshall

I used this juice to make my first blueberry wine turned out excellent. I used all juice no water.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i use the paint strainer bags as well...they hold up, and will hold a large amount of fruit....they have an elastic ban, so i can also use them to cover the top of fermenting buckets.


----------



## China-Clipper

*Let the games begin!*

Here we go...







Just starting my first batch of DB. I used those 5-gallon nylon paint strainer bags from Home Depot. After making my sugar mix, I just stretched the bag over the 6.5 gallon primary bucket, poured the fruit mix in, and tied a quick knot. It was great, squeezed the bag for about 5 minutes and set it aside. Will pitch the yeast tomorrow; can't wait to see how this one goes.


----------



## ou8amaus

I have been using nylon knee high stockings from the dollarstore... I get curious looks at the cash but they work well!


----------



## ckvchestnut

China-Clipper said:


> Here we go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just starting my first batch of DB. I used those 5-gallon nylon paint strainer bags from Home Depot. After making my sugar mix, I just stretched the bag over the 6.5 gallon primary bucket, poured the fruit mix in, and tied a quick knot. It was great, squeezed the bag for about 5 minutes and set it aside. Will pitch the yeast tomorrow; can't wait to see how this one goes.




Good luck with it! It's fun making this wine cuz you get to so some tinkering!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I hope you added the fruit back in after setting it aside


----------



## michael-s

My first DB, actually first ever wine from scratch and it is exciting. I would like to compare fermentation notes with anyone who has finished a DB wine already, really just for my own curiosity sake.
I followed the recipe, with 8lbs of 4 berry mix, yeast is EC-118.
Fermentation is going as follows... starting.... SG 1.074/ temp 22.1 C
Feb.9.... SG 1.070/ temp 22.5 C
Feb 10.... SG 1.054 temp 22.5 C
Feb 11.... SG 1.041 temp 23.1 C
Feb 12... SG 1.030 temp 23.0 C
Feb 13 .... SG 1.021 temp 23.2 C

Still ongoing, healthy fermentation. I am just curious about your fermentation time, before racking into a carboy.

thanks.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I start my db at 1.110..i let it finish dry .990.
if using pasteur red it complete to dry in 5 to 6 days.
if using cotes de blanc it is complete in 7 to 10 days.
i usually go from start to finish in 18 days...


----------



## Winenoob66

Dragon's Blood notes 1/5/14
time 10:30 pm

cleaned and sanitized everything

filtered 5 gallons of water in the brita pitcher

added 1 gallon of filtered water to pot on stove
and brought it to a boil
added 20 cups of sugar and stirred it until it had
completely dissolved
added sugar water to primary
added 1 48oz bottle RealLemon juice to primary
stirred the sh*t out of it
brought water to 5 gallon mark on primary
stirred the sh*t outta it somemore

Took SG 1.090

added 1 tsp grape tanning (stirred)
added 4 tsp yeast nutrient (stirred) 
added 2 tsp yeast energizer (stirred)
added 3 tsp pectin enzyme (stirred)
added 6 lbs triple berry blend fruit to 5 gallon paint strainer bag and
gave the bag a few squeeses to break it up some and let the 
pectin work work into it some.

Did not top water to 6 gallons like it says in the original directions 
as I am only doing a 5 gallon batch but topping to 5 gallon before 
adding fruit brought me over the 5 gallon mark to almost 5.5 gal 
with fruit added (hoping this will give me a little extra for racking)

1/6/14
Made starter for yeast then took SG at 1.090
Gave bag a few squeezes for good measure, and stirred.
Pitched yeast

1/7/14
Squeezed bag almost dry then placed in sanitized bowl,
Stirred for 2 minutes then took Gravity reading 1.082

1/8/14
Squeezed bag almost dry then placed in sanitized bowl,
Stirred for 2 minutes then took Gravity reading 1.050

1/9/14
Squeezed bag almost dry then placed in sanitized bowl,
Stirred for 2 minutes then took Gravity reading 1.024

1/10/14
Removed and squeezed bag dry, Gave must a gentle stir 
and took SG 1.000. If I hadn't of gave must a stir gently
I would be transferring to secondary now. But being I have 
I will transfer tomorrow.

1/11/14
Took SG .090. Racked onto 5 crushed and dissolved camden 
tablets (dissolved in a half cup of heated water) to cleaned 
and sanitized 5 Gallon Carboy tried degassing, but not a lot 
of bubbles came up. Added Tsp sparkloid into 1 cup water.
Brought to heavy simmer for 5 minutes. Stirred into carboy.
Placed cleaned and sanitized Bung and airlock on carboy.

1/18/14
Racked off lees to clean and sanitized carboy.
Added sorbate to half cup warm water and added to DB 
Stirred gently will back sweeten tomorrow

1/19/14
Back sweetened with 3 and 1/2 cup sugar by warming some 
in a cleaned and sanitized pot then melting in sugar and 
adding back to carboy

1/23/14
Bottled today, going to have to make more of this termites got into it.


----------



## michael-s

Thank you for your information, interesting to read. 
I too have been squeezing fruit container, removing and stirring must daily. Fermentation averages seem to be as quick as 4/5 days and up to 10 days so with that info my batch is going along ok. Following my SG #'s it looks like it will be done in 2 or 3 days, if everything continues as it is. 

Thanks again................ wonder how termites behave after consuming DB wine.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I don't know about termites but I fell asleep on the couch again last weekend! No DB for me this weekend!


----------



## dangerdave

I use cheap disposable nylon stockings. When the wine is done, I just pitch the whole thing. I got tired of washing the mesh fruit bags. I, too, get strange looks from the ladies in the women's sock/panties department. I just smile.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Those women are UPTIGHT! Lol


----------



## michael-s

Well Dangerdave I just have to assume that your are not trying on those cheap nylon stockings in front of all those ladies and then wearing them home.


----------



## Rosa321

bkisel said:


> Question: Doses the bag for the fruit have to by nylon? Can it be a cheese cloth bag or will the pectic enzyme eat the cheese cloth?
> 
> Thanx...



this was my first time making Dragons Blood. I tried twice to get to my local homebrew store but both times they were unexpectedly closed. so I made a bag out of double layered cheese cloth. But I'm kind of crafty and I sew and I put a draw string in . it worked fine for one batch I would double layer it because the holes are a little large and you can't reuse it, I wouldn't think.

but just so you know if that's all you have it is possible to make it work.

I will have to check out the bags at Home Depot!


----------



## cintipam

Rosa321, try making bags out of organza. The plain non shimmery kind. They are 100% nylon and hold up really well. The weave is so fine that not even strawberry or kiwi seeds can escape into your must. And at approx $5/yd for 58 inch fabric, you can make a lot of bags. Just don't dry them in the dryer per the fabric instructions. I guess they would melt.

Pam in cinti


----------



## Rosa321

cintipam said:


> Rosa321, try making bags out of organza. The plain non shimmery kind. They are 100% nylon and hold up really well. The weave is so fine that not even strawberry or kiwi seeds can escape into your must. And at approx $5/yd for 58 inch fabric, you can make a lot of bags. Just don't dry them in the dryer per the fabric instructions. I guess they would melt.
> 
> Pam in cinti



Thanks!!!!!! That's an awesome suggestion. I will check my local craftstore for some organza!! Way cheaper than the ones the store Carries, too.


----------



## roger80465

Started a batch of DB yesterday, following Dave's recipe and using 6 lbs of the triple berry blend from Costco. I will tweak it with a pound of blackberries after I reach 1.02 or so. 

This is my second batch, although the initial attempt was a modified skeeter pee, sweetened with cranberry/pomegranate concentrate. Turned out very acidic, making it difficult to drink. The best application for it was to mix with ginger ale or sprite as a spritzer for the summer months. With far less lemon juice this time, I am pretty excited for the potential. This will be my back porch or sitting-around-the-campfire drink for the summer. Let the good times roll!


----------



## China-Clipper

I followed Dave's instructions to a "t" and my SG ended up being the recommended 1.075. I see here everybody else is starting with 1.095 or greater....did I miscalculate?


----------



## ckvchestnut

Nope! Just some people like a higher abv. If you're ok with that final abv it's perfectly good. I made a mistake last batch and spiked my initial SG up to 1.120 lol my finishing abv ended up at 16%. Last night after finishing our cab sauv with dinner we cracked open some of that DB again - woke up on the couch at 4am again! That darned DB! Either that or I'm getting OLD!


----------



## dangerdave

I feel like such a pusher! Sorry, Carolyn. The recipe should come with a warning, huh?

~Rick: As the recipe says, you can add extra sugar in the must to increase ABV. My wife likes to drink a lot of DB, so I try to keep the ABV nominal.


----------



## China-Clipper

Well, it's only been a day since I pitched the yeast. Suppose I could stir in two or three more cups of sugar at this point. I guess I thought the added sugar in the berries themselves would drive up the ABV.


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> I feel like such a pusher! Soory, Carolyn. The recipe should come with a warning, huh?
> 
> ~Rick: As the recipe says, you can add extra sugar in the must to increase ABV. My wife likes to drink a lot of DB, so I try to keep the ABV nominal.




I think I joked about that before Dave (the pusher)! You're a smart man! Maybe I should take your advice and make mine with a lower abv! Maybe then I won't fall asleep on the couch! Yes it should have a warning label on it that reads: Warning - Dangerous when drunk!


----------



## Winenoob66

or better yet maybe it should read " Drunk when dangerous" , kinda like getting pulled over by the police and saying " Is there an officer problem?"  another of them favorite says are " I'm not as think as you drunk I am "


----------



## dangerdave

China-Clipper said:


> Well, it's only been a day since I pitched the yeast. Suppose I could stir in two or three more cups of sugar at this point. I guess I thought the added sugar in the berries themselves would drive up the ABV.


 
I keep planning on checking the SG of the fruit juices so I can determine how much the ABV is raised by the fruit...

...and I keep forgetting.


----------



## jamesngalveston

hey, do not worry bout Carolyn, any body that can shoe a horse can dang sure handle some db....


----------



## jojabri

Save the cop the trouble, go to the DMV to get your license schnocker-faced. That way when you get pulled over you can say "I always look like this ossifer"


----------



## ckvchestnut

Lmao! Yup "WARNING - DRINK AT YOUR OWN RISK"


----------



## michael-s

My first DB batch should probably be ready for 1st racking tomorrow, the SG reading taken this afternoon was 1.002. 

Looking forward to tomorrow. Below shows how it has gone along from day 1.

Starting.... SG 1.074/ temp 22.1 C
Feb.9.... SG 1.070/ temp 22.5 C
Feb 10.... SG 1.054 temp 22.5 C
Feb 11.... SG 1.041 temp 23.1 C
Feb 12... SG 1.030 temp 23.0 C
Feb 13 .... SG 1.021 temp 23.2 C
Feb 14 ... SG 1.010 temp 22.4 C
Feb 15 ... SG 1.002 temp 22.2 C


----------



## ckvchestnut

Woohoo! Can I be nominated as the new DB cheerleader?? Lol

But one thing... You might want to wait until you have the same SG reading for 3 days in a row to confirm that the primary fermentation really is complete. Or else you will have a terrible time degassing and clearing it. That's just my 2 cents though


----------



## michael-s

I will follow your advice and do that.

Thanks.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> hey, do not worry bout Carolyn, any body that can shoe a horse can dang sure handle some db....




Have you ever tried it?? It's actually quite difficult lol I actually only remove shoes and practice therapeutic and high performance barefoot trimming. I wear my heart rate monitor to work sometimes and last time I wore it - it said I burned 1097 cals lol

Maybe that's also why I fall asleep on the couch haha!


----------



## jamesngalveston

my x had a few hunter/jumpers and was in dressage, she was quite good, and in the 80s made the olympic team...although she never competed..not sure why...but she had horses and as i recall anytime they needed a vet are shot, she was at work and I was at the farm...
she had one that coliced, and when the vet got to the house, he asked me to bridal the horse... then proceded to stick about 10 feet of rubber hose down its nose, then poured something in it..told me to hold the bridal when he pulled it out...not sure who fainted first ..me are the horse.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Aw ya colic is no fun James!! I've had several clients' horses pass away from it. Sadly it's all diet related. Yup no fun when they have tube them. My mare once choked herself on food because another horse in the stall next to her had his bead over on her side trying to get her food! I had to wait for what seemed an eternity for the vet to come and tube her. Honestly I tried rubbing her throat feverishly and scooping her throat out from inside with my fingers but nothing worked. I just had to watch her choke with little or no air and her eyes rolling back into her head until the vet finally rolled in! Ack it was like my child choking!

Oh and good on you being there for your wife's horses! That's a good horse husband!


----------



## JetJockey

ckvchestnut said:


> Yes it should have a warning label on it that reads: Warning - Dangerous when drunk!



Was the label for you or the DB Bottle? And what's wrong with the couch? I spend a lot of time there!


----------



## jamesngalveston

lol, carolyn your a funny girl....horse husband...never thought of it like that.first horse i ever bought, i was drunk playing poker at a bar in the bontocks, in the middle of the desert. it was kinda a make shift rodeo/illegal horse race track.i bet my car against the horse and lost.
the horse was the ugliest thing you ever saw...but some how we bonded...i loved it after a while..was just plain terrible to look at.
LOL
good night.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Label for anyone contemplating drinking it - for the bottle lol but not sure! Nothing wrong with the couch but I HATE waking up in the middle of the night - don't do it in bed but always on the couch! Cuz I now I'm not in bed! Then I feel like I hadn't slept all night!


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> lol, carolyn your a funny girl....horse husband...never thought of it like that.first horse i ever bought, i was drunk playing poker at a bar in the bontocks, in the middle of the desert. it was kinda a make shift rodeo/illegal horse race track.i bet my car against the horse and lost.
> the horse was the ugliest thing you ever saw...but some how we bonded...i loved it after a while..was just plain terrible to look at.
> LOL
> good night.




OMG that is so funny! Lol too bad we weren't neighbors we'd have lots of stories to share! Honestly I'd rather have the horse than the car no matter how ugly!  good night! I'm awake and ahead of the game, am heading for bed so I don't fall asleep on the couch!


----------



## JetJockey

Carolyn, Here's a win-win solution: Take your bottle of DB to the bedroom. That way you'll fall asleep in bed and still get to enjoy the DB.

James, sounds like the makings of a good country song!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Very funny! Nah I'd feel like an alcie taking my booze to bed lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

pics for runningwolf....


peach db and mustang grape db, just racked...both had a 5 day ferment to dry.


----------



## JS1000

*Clearing question*

Hi everyone,

I need your input and guidance. I followed the original recipe as stated. However, it has been over two weeks and wine is still cloudy. 

Any advice or am I being impatient?

Thanks

Aaron


----------



## ckvchestnut

What did you use to clear it and did you wait a full 3 days with the same dry hydrometer reading before adding your clearing agent? Did you make sure you degassed it sufficiently prior to clearing?


----------



## jamesngalveston

make sure your complete with fermentation.
dragon blood is meant to have a clearing agent added, rather then wait for a natural clearing to occur.
as carolyn said...make sure its degassed....that will help the sediment fall.
when co2 is rising it slows the natural occuring downward motion of sediment,


----------



## Runningwolf

jamesngalveston said:


> pics for runningwolf....
> 
> 
> peach db and mustang grape db, just racked...both had a 5 day ferment to dry.



James the grape looks like strawberry and it looks good enough to throw in a milkshake right now. LOL


----------



## jamesngalveston

it taste terrible...i just tried it...
I only left the skins on for a day, thinking it would be darker..its not.
the mustang grapes are so acidic, i thought i had it balanced, but not.
may just bulk age it, and make some more and blend when this years crop is picked.


----------



## JS1000

Carolyn and James,

I used sparkalloid as per the instructions. I degassed for 30 minutes. Not much gas was coming out anymore. And the ending SG was 996 on day 3.

There is some sediment at the bottom. Should I rack and try another dose of sparkalloid or should I give this more time?

Thank you very much for the help.

Aaron


----------



## jamesngalveston

i would rack, i can not tell you about sparkoloid...I dont use it I use super kleer, which works like magic for me.
I would just wait it out, are add super kleer...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya that's good advice James! I have used both with equal success. They say sparkolloid takes about a week but the last time I used it, it cleared my concord port within 2-3 days. Because I'm bulk aging it I only see a tiny dusting of light lees on the bottom. Really for any longer term drinkers time is the best thing for proper clearing and getting all the sediment to drop. Put your carboy in the place you intend to rack it. Let all that sediment settle and rack like James said. Then see if it clears on it's own or hit it with sparkolloid or super kleer. I'm not the most experienced here but in my experience when using sparkolloid you have to make sure you simmer and stir it well for 10 minutes at least. This will cause the clearing to go faster.


----------



## JS1000

Thank you both for your advice!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Welcome! Good luck with it


----------



## dangerdave

Good advice from good people!


----------



## Tess

OK, Iv been gone for a while. I haven't made any wine sense before the holidays. Been busy having a first gandbaby. Just been busy. Now that he is here and Im not buying everything under the sun for him Im back. My stash is getting low anyway. 
Here is my question. 
I making a 6 gallon batch of DB. I know I bought lemon juice but I cant find it anywhere. I just started it today and I know I could just pick some up and add it tomorrow but I do have acid blend. How much would u recommend for a 6 gal batch. I usually don't quite use the whole bottle of lemon recommended. I usually get the next size down (bottle of Lemon) 
I dont want to over do it


----------



## PoppaCork

I have been using 3 - teaspoons per 6 - gallon on previous batches. 
On the batch I'm starting today I only used 1-1/2 teaspoons to see what it's like.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Welcome back Tess and congrats on your new grand child! That should be fine! 3 tsps. I accidentally added more than that to a 6 gal batch of tropical and it is ok. Would be interesting to hear how the lesser amount one tastes.


Carolyn


----------



## Tess

Thanks guys. Yeah I know its all about how you like it in the end. I will do the three


----------



## jamesngalveston

welcome back tess..glad things are well with you.
and, the three will be just fine for the db.


----------



## dangerdave

I agree. Three should work fine. I called the lemonless version with acid blend, "Dragonette".

Oh, and good to see you back, Tess.


----------



## Tess

dangerdave said:


> I agree. Three should work fine. I called the lemonless version with acid blend, "Dragonette".
> 
> Oh, and good to see you back, Tess.



"Dragonette"


----------



## bkisel

Tess, Your first grandchild, what a joy it must be. No chance you're going to spoil that child is there?


----------



## Tess

bkisel said:


> Tess, Your first grandchild, what a joy it must be. No chance you're going to spoil that child is there?



OMG are u kidding me. He is beautiful lol


----------



## sour_grapes

Welcome back, Tess! I must admit I feared the worst when you fell off the face of the Earth. I feared that maybe, I hate to even say it, I thought that perhaps (gasp), there had been an "intervention."


----------



## jamesngalveston

my newest db.

96 large luzianne tea bags steeped in 3 gallon jar
48 oz of lemon
no pectin
1/2 as much acid blend
sugar to sg of 1.100
taste wonderfull, with no co2 are yeast..lol
will backsweeten with sugar and mint simple syrup...hopefully will taste like a mint julep for the summer.


----------



## bakervinyard

Started my first batch of Dragon Blood. Following the directions to the "t" Just pitched my yeast an hour ago. Temp was 75, S.G. was 1.075, tasted the juice and it was tastie not even fermented. One question on it. Do you snap down the primary fermentor lid ?
James the mint julep D.B. sounds really good, let us know how it comes out.
Thanks, Bakervinyard


----------



## jamesngalveston

bakervinyard..I do not use a lid at all, I cover with a cloth, so i can get the oxygen to it, and get a full on ferment going on.
I used the lid on a few batches, and found it slowed everything down a little bit...the last 100 gallons, i have not used a lid at all.
I have made some changes.
I add bentonite when the ferment gets really rolling, day 2 are 3 with pasteur red yeast,.
I add bentonite when i get a sparkly,fizzing,swirling ferment using a cotes de blanc , on day 4...
I double my fruit on every batch.
I let it clear before i add sorbate...hopefully you will also.
Good luck, let us know how it goes, we are a special family here in the db wine world.


----------



## freeze06

I just bottled DB and my first wine kit!


----------



## ckvchestnut

freeze06 said:


> I just bottled DB and my first wine kit!




Yaay! It looks awesome!!!!


Carolyn


----------



## Tess

sour_grapes said:


> Welcome back, Tess! I must admit I feared the worst when you fell off the face of the Earth. I feared that maybe, I hate to even say it, I thought that perhaps (gasp), there had been an "intervention."



Your too funny Paul LMBO!!! No I just got busy with life. Im back in teh game though. Got home from work and went straight into my wine room to here that familiar snap crackle and pop of my dragons blood fermenting. lol


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> my newest db.
> 
> 96 large luzianne tea bags steeped in 3 gallon jar
> 48 oz of lemon
> no pectin
> 1/2 as much acid blend
> sugar to sg of 1.100
> taste wonderfull, with no co2 are yeast..lol
> will backsweeten with sugar and mint simple syrup...hopefully will taste like a mint julep for the summer.




you have already made this??


----------



## JetJockey

Tess,
Is that yet a new version - Rice Crispy Dragon Blood that goes Snap, Crackle, and Pop? If so, you're the first to mention that variety.


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> bakervinyard..I do not use a lid at all, I cover with a cloth, so i can get the oxygen to it, and get a full on ferment going on.
> I used the lid on a few batches, and found it slowed everything down a little bit...the last 100 gallons, i have not used a lid at all.
> I have made some changes.
> I add bentonite when the ferment gets really rolling, day 2 are 3 with pasteur red yeast,.
> I add bentonite when i get a sparkly,fizzing,swirling ferment using a cotes de blanc , on day 4...
> I double my fruit on every batch.
> I let it clear before i add sorbate...hopefully you will also.
> Good luck, let us know how it goes, we are a special family here in the db wine world.



I dont know how you guys get by with this lol My towel always drys out by next day and is laying in my must  I lay the lid on top but do not snap it down. I just set it there. Plus I beat tbe crap out of it every night after i squeeze my Fpack


----------



## JetJockey

Tess, 
Bungee cord or Velcro strap. I've even used an old belt to hold the towel on the primary to keep it from falling in.


----------



## jamesngalveston

no tess..i am just now starting it... pitching yeast today.before i leave for houston for a few days.


----------



## Tess

JetJockey said:


> Tess,
> Is that yet a new version - Rice Crispy Dragon Blood that goes Snap, Crackle, and Pop? If so, you're the first to mention that variety.



its the sweet sound of fermentation!! I hear it and I know all is well so far


----------



## Tess

jamesngalveston said:


> no tess..i am just now starting it... pitching yeast today.before i leave for houston for a few days.



Let us know how it works out. I love anything evolving tea or wine. Combine them?? I cant wait to hear!!


----------



## JDesCotes

JetJockey said:


> Tess,
> Is that yet a new version - Rice Crispy Dragon Blood that goes Snap, Crackle, and Pop? If so, you're the first to mention that variety.




Ok... I know you were joking and all but you got my thinking! Has anybody tried to make a matcha green tea with toasted rice (or rice crispies) dragons blood?? It sounds delicious to me, but I have no primaries or carboys empty at the moment to try!! 

Instead of being called "dragons blood" it could be named after the Japanese dragon and called "Ryu blood" or "Tatsu blood"

Thoughts?


----------



## Tess

there are so many ways you can go with this. Im going down now to do my daily blood ritual. Squeeze and Stir....Squeeze and Stir lol


----------



## Tess

JetJockey said:


> Tess,
> Bungee cord or Velcro strap. I've even used an old belt to hold the towel on the primary to keep it from falling in.



well thats the way to go. At my local supply store the lids cost almost as much as the primary


----------



## wildvines

freeze06 said:


> I just bottled DB and my first wine kit!




Looks great


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Rosa321

Ok, friends!
Im all set to back sweeten and bottle this weekend. I even have my help lined up! if I want to use berries to back sweeten what is the procedure for that? do I make a simple syrup and cook the berries in that or do I just add a few cups of sugar to the berries? will this mess with the clarity at all? I'm just clueless on how to do this but I would like to give it a little bit more berry flavor if possible. As always thanks in advance for your help


----------



## China-Clipper

*Nice labels!*



freeze06 said:


> I just bottled DB and my first wine kit!



Wow Freeze06, nice labels and good lookin' wine! Did you create and print the labels your self, or have them done? I'm still messing with trying to create my labels with no success.


----------



## knockabout

DAve,
Would it be offensive to you if I named my DB something other than DB? Im not trying to steal credit from you but hubby and I think Liquid Panty Remover might be more appropriate. 
Thanks for the recipe!
Kim


----------



## Johngottshall

Caplan said:


> Drier, high tannin, bigger ABV wines will age better than most medium sweet versions and will mature nicely. 18 years plus is however a really long time to age anything - you'll need a very stable (cool all year round and dark) environment to ensure it ages well without spoiling.



I added berry extracts LHBS had 4oz bottles for 3.99 turned out more flavorful.


----------



## Tess

I been buying a lot of genuine extracts from Olive Nation. Im going to enjoy using them. Especially in lower end kits.


----------



## bkisel

Getting close! About to start my first non-kit wine... *I"m PUMPED!*

Back from my shopping trip to my LHBS and Super Stop & Shop. Thought I had gotten everything I needed to start the DB but managed to forget the Lemon Juice. Also, my wife tells me we're low on sugar. I'll head out tomorrow and get those two ingredients. Probably wait until Monday to start the process.

Oh, paid $7.00 for a big nylon bag @ the LHBS and then passing a paint store on the way home got a bit smaller bag for $1.49. That really hurt this frugal shopper.

BTW, what do you guys use to tie off these nylon bags? Can a sanitized rubber band be use or is this a no-no in the fermentor?


----------



## bkisel

Anybody ever do a costing for making 6 gallons of DB? Now that I know what most of the stuff costs - less lemon juice and sugar - I'm figuring ~ $1.50 per 750ML bottle. This is excluding the cost of the bottle itself and the cork. Also excluding the reusable hardware costs.


----------



## sour_grapes

bkisel said:


> Anybody ever do a costing for making 6 gallons of DB? Now that I know what most of the stuff costs - less lemon juice and sugar - I'm figuring ~ $1.50 per 750ML bottle. This is excluding the cost of the bottle itself and the cork. Also excluding the reusable hardware costs.



bkisel, we are in the same blood, errr, I mean the same boat. I am supposed to start MY first DB tonight. I also costed out the consumable ingredients and came to about $1.25 to $1.50/bottle.


----------



## bkisel

sour_grapes said:


> bkisel, we are in the same blood, errr, I mean the same boat. I am supposed to start MY first DB tonight. I also costed out the consumable ingredients and came to about $1.25 to $1.50/bottle.



Best of luck in your DB endeavor.

Are you doing any tweaks or sticking right to Dave's recipe first time out?

["costed out the consumable ingredients" why couldn't I have been as concise in my writing?]


----------



## sour_grapes

I am doing no tweaks -- just the straight recipe. Und du?


----------



## bkisel

sour_grapes said:


> I am doing no tweaks -- just the straight recipe. Und du?



I know this sounds stupid but I'm thinking a light touch of raisins or bananas in secondary just so I can call my wine "Raisin Berry" or "Banana Berry". I'm personally okay with the wine being called Dragon Blood but I'd rather not lay that name on more sensitive folks.


----------



## keahunter

bkisel said:


> BTW, what do you guys use to tie off these nylon bags? Can a sanitized rubber band be use or is this a no-no in the fermentor?



Bill, I'm no pro, having only one DB under my belt, but I just tied the bag closed. I was using a paint strainer bag and had enough room to tie it. Good luck!


----------



## ckvchestnut

bkisel said:


> I know this sounds stupid but I'm thinking a light touch of raisins or bananas in secondary just so I can call my wine "Raisin Berry" or "Banana Berry". I'm personally okay with the wine being called Dragon Blood but I'd rather not lay that name on more sensitive folks.




I've only tried using bananas in the primary and on that regard they really don't give off a banana flavour. I have also used raisins with the same result. I put 6 bananas in my 6 gal batch of tropical daze and I think I can detect a faint banana flavour. But my purpose was mainly for structure or mouthfeel. If you want impart banana flavour have you checked out the banana wine recipes? Not sure if they use bananas like an f-pack in the secondary. Maybe it would slow the clearing process somewhat?


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> I've only tried using bananas in the primary and on that regard they really don't give off a banana flavour. I have also used raisins with the same result. I put 6 bananas in my 6 gal batch of tropical daze and I think I can detect a faint banana flavour. But my purpose was mainly for structure or mouthfeel. If you want impart banana flavour have you checked out the banana wine recipes? Not sure if they use bananas like an f-pack in the secondary. Maybe it would slow the clearing process somewhat?
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Just prior to getting out of bed this morning I was running through my mind the days planned activities. This included going to the store for the lemon juice and sugar to complete the ingredients for the DB wine. It popped into my mind "LEMON BERRY!". So I've decided now to stick to the recipe, this first time at least, and label my DB "Lemon Berry". That's my final answer.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Sounds great! 


Carolyn


----------



## dangerdave

Rosa321 said:


> Ok, friends!
> Im all set to back sweeten and bottle this weekend. I even have my help lined up! if I want to use berries to back sweeten what is the procedure for that? do I make a simple syrup and cook the berries in that or do I just add a few cups of sugar to the berries? will this mess with the clarity at all? I'm just clueless on how to do this but I would like to give it a little bit more berry flavor if possible. As always thanks in advance for your help


 
Hey, Rosa!

Adding a reduced extract to the wine will definately mess up your clarity. You'll have to wait for it to clear again. If you just add sugar, you can bottle if you want---you did add sorbate, right. The wine can seem light on flavor without sugar. Have you tried any bench tests on what amount of sugar you might like? The sweetness will bring out the berries, if you know what I mean.

Everyone else seems to be doing very well. What a great group of crafty wine makers! I'm glad we found a recipe that allows for so much experimentation. We're pushing the envelope on country fruit wine making!

I like tea. I've always wanted to try some tee wine. I also keep a variety of natural fruit extracts and flavorings on hand. Many times, just a touch of addd flavor has helped bring a flat wine into the good range.

Keep up the awesomeness, folks!

Out of town for the weekend (until Thursday) on business. I'll try to check in.


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> I've only tried using bananas in the primary and on that regard they really don't give off a banana flavour. I have also used raisins with the same result. I put 6 bananas in my 6 gal batch of tropical daze and I think I can detect a faint banana flavour. But my purpose was mainly for structure or mouthfeel. If you want impart banana flavour have you checked out the banana wine recipes? Not sure if they use bananas like an f-pack in the secondary. Maybe it would slow the clearing process somewhat?
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Did you get the structure/mouth feel you were looking for? I thought for that purpose the banana or raisin would go in the secondary.


----------



## oreoman

Need advice please. Started my batch of DB on Wednesday. Used 12 pounds of fruit. Pitched yeast on Thursday -- SG 1.082 temp 75. Fermenting nicely but SG not moving. It is at 1.080. Is there something wrong or am I over anxious? First batch went off fine. 



Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## jamesngalveston

your over anxious. give it a few days


----------



## oreoman

Thank you!!
Joann


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## ckvchestnut

bkisel said:


> Did you get the structure/mouth feel you were looking for? I thought for that purpose the banana or raisin would go in the secondary.




I believe so because the one difference I'm experiencing from other DB makers is that my stuff is smooth right out of the carboy... The body is slightly heavier but I am one to use more fruit as well as having a higher abv than the original.


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

oreoman said:


> Need advice please. Started my batch of DB on Wednesday. Used 12 pounds of fruit. Pitched yeast on Thursday -- SG 1.082 temp 75. Fermenting nicely but SG not moving. It is at 1.080. Is there something wrong or am I over anxious? First batch went off fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Joann.... What James said plus, you used 12lbs of fruit your SG is probably staying the same because lots of sugar is being released from all that fruit. That's how I accidentally bumped my OG to 1.120 last time. I brought my SG to 1.110 with sugar but them 2 days later as the fruit released it's own sugar I had 1.120! 

It will go down it's just going to take a few days 


Carolyn


----------



## freeze06

China-Clipper said:


> Wow Freeze06, nice labels and good lookin' wine! Did you create and print the labels your self, or have them done? I'm still messing with trying to create my labels with no success.



I used PowerPoint to create the design and ordered the labels online. In the future I plan to print them myself.


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> Hey, Rosa!
> 
> Adding a reduced extract to the wine will definately mess up your clarity. You'll have to wait for it to clear again. If you just add sugar, you can bottle if you want---you did add sorbate, right. The wine can seem light on flavor without sugar. Have you tried any bench tests on what amount of sugar you might like? The sweetness will bring out the berries, if you know what I mean.
> 
> Everyone else seems to be doing very well. What a great group of crafty wine makers! I'm glad we found a recipe that allows for so much experimentation. We're pushing the envelope on country fruit wine making!
> 
> I like tea. I've always wanted to try some tee wine. I also keep a variety of natural fruit extracts and flavorings on hand. Many times, just a touch of addd flavor has helped bring a flat wine into the good range.
> 
> Keep up the awesomeness, folks!
> 
> Out of town for the weekend (until Thursday) on business. I'll try to check in.




Hummmm..........Would I have to add more clarifying agent, or would it clear on it's own? 
I've taste-tested several times, and it's weak in flavor. It basically tastes like sweetened alcohol :-( Perhaps if I let it age, it will get better?

But I did make a reduced extract from 2lbs of berries..........and I feel like I want to try adding it. Anh....WHAT THE HECK!  Life is short. I'm going to add it and see what happens. Worse thing that happens is I have to add more clarifying stuff, right? And wait a while to bottle....

I only started with 6lbs of fruit. Maybe in the future I need to start with more.


----------



## jkrug

Started mine this past week used lavlin 71b. Looking forward to bottling and tasting. Is this good dry or is it only good as a semi sweet? Wife likes sweet to semi and I like dry. 

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Wine Making mobile app


----------



## bkisel

jkrug said:


> Started mine this past week used lavlin 71b. Looking forward to bottling and tasting. Is this good dry or is it only good as a semi sweet? Wife likes sweet to semi and I like dry.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Wine Making mobile app



Let me see. What would I do? Wife likes it sweet and I like it dry. Wait, don't rush me. I'm thinking. I''m thinking. I'm th...


----------



## ckvchestnut

jkrug - Split your batch! Rosa - I never feel the need to add an f-pack when I use 10 to 12lbs of fruit. Lots of flavour. Will have to get started on a new batch this weekend.


Carolyn


----------



## sour_grapes

Dang, nab-it! I left the bags of frozen fruit out to thaw on the kitchen counter while I went out for the evening with friends. The fruit thawed and leaked juice all over the place. I regret the loss of juice. Good thing my soapstone kitchen counters are bombproof.


----------



## datcv

*Starting a batch of Raspberry Wine*

6 x 12 = 72 oz Red Raspberries (4.5 lbs)
2 lbs of sugar
1/4 tsp Wine Tannin
1/2 tsp Pectic Enzyme
1 Campden Tablet
About 3/4 gallon of water (to 1.5 gallons total)
1 Cup of Passion Fruit Juice

I am going to pitch the yeast tomorrow after the campden tablet has done its job and I am trying decide on which type of yeast to use. I have on hand packets of

Pasteur Red
Pasteur Champagne
Cote des Blancs

Any suggestions?


----------



## windshield_king

My first batch of DB all bottled and in its new home,taste great. followed the recipe to the tee,now to have some fun!


----------



## bkisel

windshield_king said:


> My first batch of DB all bottled and in its new home,taste great. followed the recipe to the tee,now to have some fun!



Looks great. Did you age your DB at all or straight from cleared to bottle to drinking?

Thanx...


----------



## windshield_king

I bulked aged for 3 weeks


----------



## bkisel

Just back from Super Stop & Shop where I bought sugar, spring water and lemon juice. There was no 48 oz RealLemon on the shelf. I bought a 32 oz and a 15 oz of the store brand. Both brands are labeled "100% Lemon Juice" *BUT* also say "*FROM CONCENTRATE WITH ADDED INGREDIENTS*"! Added ingredients are SODIUM BISULFATE (PRESERVATIVE), SODIUM BENZOATE (PRESERVATIVE) and LEMON OIL. *Am I okay with this stuff or do I need to bring it back and try to get the lemon juice from maybe a health food store?*

Thanx...[ Looking to start my DB tomorrow if the lemon juice is okay to use.]


----------



## PoppaCork

windshield_king said:


> My first batch of DB all bottled and in its new home,taste great. followed the recipe to the tee,now to have some fun!



Congrat's on your first batch of DB. But it is not time to relax just yet, you need to start another batch now, this stuff don't last... 

Nice wine rack too!


----------



## ckvchestnut

bkisel said:


> Looks great. Did you age your DB at all or straight from cleared to bottle to drinking?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanx...




Yes you're fine. That's what everyone uses and that's why you have to wait 24 hours after adding the lemon juice and frozen fruit or concentrates end fire adding you yeast. It's hens mentally as having to wait after using k-meta for wild fruit and then waiting 24 Hrs for it to dissipate before adding yeast.

That said, I just started a new modified dragonette version today. I was dismayed that they were all out of my quad berry fruit, but I had 1 full bag in the freezer. So I bought 1 bag of blueberries and 1 bag of strawberries instead to go in it. 

My question is since Dragonette calls for acid blend instead of lemon juice with sulfites, can I pitch my yeast same day?? I looked all over each bag of fruit and it says nowhere anything about sulfites. Only ingredients are the fruit. Aren't there laws that state that sulfites must be claimed on food labels if used?? So this should mean there aren't any and I would be safe to do it? Or should the pectic enzyme really have that head start on the fruit? I was just curious how Dragonette would taste vs traditional.


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

My last post was meant for bkisel's post on the lemon juice!


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> My last post was meant for bkisel's post on the lemon juice!
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Thank you so much for the explanation. You'd think that after 13 months of doing this I'd know it all.





I'm excited about starting this, my first, non-kit wine. I did a racking of my last batch tonight that was actually scheduled for tomorrow so that I could clear the decks and be able to concentrate on starting the DB.


----------



## bkisel

20 cups of sugar...

Domino® Granulated Sugar

5 lbs.	-------------	11 1/2 cups

So if the chart is right and my math is right I take 3 cups out of the 10 pound bag of sugar I bought and that will leave me 20 cups called for in step 1 of the DB recipe, right?

[Yes, I know, a I'm asking for a little to much hand holding but having only done kits up to this point I'm just a bit anxious to get this DB done correctly.]

Thanx...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Have you measured out 5lbs to determine this? I put 4 - 2kg bags of sugar in mine which is 6.5gals and the SG reading came to 1.084 I like mine a bit more abv than the called for sugar makes. My last batch I made was too heavy on the sugar at 34 cups or 4 1/4 - 2kg bags.

No worries on the hand holding! I asked so many questions myself I must have annoyed some people! Lol


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

Just measure out your sugar in a 4 cup measuring cup. Put 5 of those in, stir thoroughly and check your SG... Check if that SG reading will give you the final abv you're looking for and of not add more in 2 - 4 cup amounts at a time. Until you have the SG you're looking for.


Carolyn


----------



## Rosa321

ckvchestnut said:


> jkrug - Split your batch! Rosa - I never feel the need to add an f-pack when I use 10 to 12lbs of fruit. Lots of flavour. Will have to get started on a new batch this weekend.
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Thanks Carolyn!

I think next time I will double the fruit up front.....I like stronger fruit flavor.
But all in all......not bad for a first run through!


----------



## ckvchestnut

No problem! I've read many posts from Dave and other DB makers that the fruit flavour comes forward again after a few months in the bottle so all is not lost! Try it again in a few months and see what you think!


Carolyn


----------



## Winenoob66

SODIUM BISULFATE (PRESERVATIVE), SODIUM BENZOATE is bad especially the SODIUM BENZOATE. If you haven't started this yet I would try to replace that lemon juice. If you have already started it, I hope it works out for you ok


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yes it's a preservative but it's the only kind I can get in my stores... I don't have access to organic lemons or juice out here too often. But that said if you're only worried about whether it works or not - it does! I also don't see how it's any worse than sulfiting your wine... 


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

Winenoob66 said:


> SODIUM BISULFATE (PRESERVATIVE), SODIUM BENZOATE is bad especially the SODIUM BENZOATE. If you haven't started this yet I would try to replace that lemon juice. If you have already started it, I hope it works out for you ok



Crap! I was going to finish this cup of coffee I'm drinking and then starting the DB. Are you saying that the RealLemon has different preservatives that are not an issue for making DB?

I read Carolyn's response as it being okay to use, that the wait before pitching the yeast is what makes it viable. 

HELP!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yes realemon I have used as well as no name they are both the same and will work without a problem! There's always acid blend if you're that worried about the bensoate...


Carolyn


----------



## Rosa321

bkisel said:


> 20 cups of sugar...
> 
> Domino® Granulated Sugar
> 
> 5 lbs.	-------------	11 1/2 cups
> 
> So if the chart is right and my math is right I take 3 cups out of the 10 pound bag of sugar I bought and that will leave me 20 cups called for in step 1 of the DB recipe, right?
> 
> [Yes, I know, a I'm asking for a little to much hand holding but having only done kits up to this point I'm just a bit anxious to get this DB done correctly.]
> 
> Thanx...


 I would measure it out and test. I am pretty sure my 10lb bag was very close to 20cups, and my SG was lower than I wanted it. So just to be safe, measure out what you are actually putting in....


----------



## RotGut76

Due to the rapid weather changes in my area. My Primary filled with DB got up to about 79 Degrees F last night. Should I be worried? I moved it to a cooler spot. It seems ok as of now. If problems should arise what should I look for?


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> Yes realemon I have used as well as no name they are both the same and will work without a problem! There's always acid blend if you're that worried about the bensoate...
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Thanks Carolyn, only worried because of the conflicting information. I'm going to use it and will know for certain for myself. I think I saw the very same preservatives on the RealLemon label as on the generic that I bought yesterday. Dave's recipe clearly mentions RealLemon and says nothing about concern for the preservatives.

Thanks.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yep it's all good bkisel! Just be sure to wait the 24hrs


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> I would measure it out and test. I am pretty sure my 10lb bag was very close to 20cups, and my SG was lower than I wanted it. So just to be safe, measure out what you are actually putting in....



Your advice along with that of a previous poster does of course makes eminent sense. Thing is I'm going to be holding out about a half gallon of water today so that tomorrow I can add dissolved Bentonite along with pitching the yeast.

I'll hold some sugar out this morning and make final adjustment to SG tomorrow just before pitching the yeast.

Thanks to both posters.


----------



## ckvchestnut

RotGut76 said:


> Due to the rapid weather changes in my area. My Primary filled with DB got up to about 79 Degrees F last night. Should I be worried? I moved it to a cooler spot. It seems ok as of now. If problems should arise what should I look for?




It should be fine just want to watch for frequent changes of temp and if it's really too hot the yeasts can stress. My indicator of stress is a ferment that starts to smell to sulphurish. Stir it well everyday and do the nutrients in 3 parts if you can. But if you used ec1118 they can tolerate up to 95 degrees. Here's a chart the EC-1118 is also known as premier curvee or prisse de mousse. 

Good temp range is 72 to 78 but once the ferment starts and getting going it will create it's own heat as well.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp 


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

bkisel said:


> Your advice along with that of a previous poster does of course makes eminent sense. Thing is I'm going to be holding out about a half gallon of water today so that tomorrow I can add dissolved Bentonite along with pitching the yeast.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll hold some sugar out this morning and make final adjustment to SG tomorrow just before pitching the yeast.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to both posters.




Thats what I do now bring SG to just under my targeted SG and then test again in 24 hrs before pitching yeast! Have fun with it!


Carolyn


----------



## Rosa321

bkisel said:


> Your advice along with that of a previous poster does of course makes eminent sense. Thing is I'm going to be holding out about a half gallon of water today so that tomorrow I can add dissolved Bentonite along with pitching the yeast.
> 
> I'll hold some sugar out this morning and make final adjustment to SG tomorrow just before pitching the yeast.
> 
> Thanks to both posters.



Sounds great!!! Just wanted you to be aware by removing the 3 cups it could be more or less sugar than you bargained for. Good luck and enjoy!!!


----------



## jamesngalveston

i have had db batches get to 100 degress during ferment.

the lemon juice with the sulphides is just fine......

you can ferment anything that that has sulphides in it.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I purposely left a tiny amount of liquid and lees in the bottom of my fermenter pail from a Liebfraumilch before starting this batch of dragonette... It looks like it's bubbling and forming a bit of a cap this morning! I'm still going to pitch some ec1118 tonight but it was interesting to see development so soon. I literally left perhaps 2 tbsps of the juice going in the bottom. It was not at the end of ferment but I needed the pail so I racked it out to the carboy at 1.030.


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> i have had db batches get to 100 degress during ferment.
> 
> 
> 
> the lemon juice with the sulphides is just fine......
> 
> 
> 
> you can ferment anything that that has sulphides in it.




James! You're back  


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

Okay. Step one complete... 

Decided against the Bentonite and stuck to the recipe. Reason is I did some quick research and came across Dave's parallel DB test with and without Bentonite. Conclusion at the end was that the DB without the Bentonite tasted better.

Took three cups of sugar out of the 10 pound bag to get my calculated 20 cups remaining. What was left was pretty much 20 cups (I counted out the cups instead of just pouring the bag in). Funny thing though I had to add 3 cups more to at the end of step 1 in order to get my SG to 1.075. So for whatever reason 10 pounds/23 cups is what I needed.

I was surprised at how high the liquid level came up when I put the berries in the primary. [The berries were put in a sanitized nylon bag.] Hope this must level won't be an issue during fermentation. 

Tomorrow I'll pitch the yeast. 

Thanks all for your help to this point.


----------



## ckvchestnut

That sounds great! What size pail are you using? 

Ok look at this! Just from me leaving a few tbsps of my Liebfraumilch at the bottom of the pail yesterday. Haven't pitched my own yeast yet! 





Carolyn


----------



## JDesCotes

I'm in the middle of doing my first dragons blood using 1 large pinapple, 1 large honeydew, 4 bananas and 4 cups of frozen mango. I am now at 1.010 SG and am very surprised how small my fruit bag has become. 

I've been squeezing it every day and it is literally just pulp in it now!


----------



## JDesCotes

ckvchestnut said:


> That sounds great! What size pail are you using?
> 
> Ok look at this! Just from me leaving a few tbsps of my Liebfraumilch at the bottom of the pail yesterday. Haven't pitched my own yeast yet!
> 
> View attachment 14011
> 
> 
> 
> Carolyn




I'm new to this so excuse me if this is a stupid question... If it's that active already, why would you pitch more yeast?


----------



## JetJockey

bkisel said:


> Okay. Step one complete...
> 
> I was surprised at how high the liquid level came up when I put the berries in the primary. [The berries were put in a sanitized nylon bag.] Hope this must level won't be an issue during fermentation.



I just made a 100% blueberry batch and my liquid was a little over 6 gallons BEFORE putting the fruit in. (Had trouble chasing my desired SG by putting in enough sugar for 5 gallons then adding water, then adding sugar, etc.) I was concerned that even though EC-1118 doesn't foam much, that I could have an overflow problem when squeezing/stirring. I took some of the must out and put it in a sanitized 1/2 gallon jug until the fermentation started to slow down, i.e. just fizzing. I added the "extra" must 1/3 at a time over 3 days (before fermenting dry). This worked out well and I didn't have any overflow. I just had to not get very aggressive with the stirring!

Thanks James for the suggestion on how to keep from overflowing my fermenting must!


----------



## JetJockey

JDesCotes said:


> I'm new to this so excuse me if this is a stupid question... If it's that active already, why would you pitch more yeast?



I'm sure Carolyn was using the leftover must from a previous batch of wine (still left in bottom of primary) to "start" her new batch of DB. Therefore she started with some active fermenting must that started fermenting her DB ingredients before she added the yeast called for in the DB recipe.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya! Basically I just wanted to see if it would start fermenting on its own and it did which I knew it would but just had no idea how fast it would do this! I wonder how many yeast cells are contained in just a few tbsps of must?? Lol well the yeast I used in the Liebfraumilch just happened to be EC-1118. I guess I was on the bench about whether or not I need to add an extra pkg of yeast if I'm getting this much action already? It's about 6.5 gallons.... Will it be a slower ferment? 


Carolyn


----------



## JDesCotes

From what I've read, yeast should multiply until they reach a stable amount in your primary. If you throw in 1 packet or 12, it should not make too much of a difference in ferment time. 

Again, I am new so this isn't practical experience... Just from what I've read. 

Me being very cheap, I wouldn't add more yeast


----------



## JDesCotes

Plus, in the original recipe for Skeeterpee (which DB is a derivative of) it actually calls for the gross lees from a previous batch instead of throwing in fresh yeast. 

The only thing I've read which could throw it off is if your last primary fermented dry and your yeast are stressed or under the effects of alcohol poisoning. But that doesn't look like a problem for you. 

(Again, I'm VERY new. So take what I say with a grain of salt)


----------



## ckvchestnut

Well what I was getting at was the question of - was there enough yeast cells possibly in that tiny amount of must to equal me putting in more and if not, would it take that much longer to multiply and get up to speed quickly. 

But yes I am cheap too and if I don't have to, I won't add more lol! Those EC-1118 guys and gals are little warriors! In the end even if it starts off slowly I know it's going because very next morning I have a cap. I'm sure that buy tonight when I was going to add more, there might even be some fizzing or foaming!


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

Not certain about the size of my "True Brew" primary bucket. Maybe 7 gallons? Must is about 1 to 1 1/8" from the top.


----------



## ckvchestnut

JDesCotes said:


> Plus, in the original recipe for Skeeterpee (which DB is a derivative of) it actually calls for the gross lees from a previous batch instead of throwing in fresh yeast.
> 
> The only thing I've read which could throw it off is if your last primary fermented dry and your yeast are stressed or under the effects of alcohol poisoning. But that doesn't look like a problem for you.
> 
> (Again, I'm VERY new. So take what I say with a grain of salt)




No that certainly makes sense what you say! I appreciate you takin the time to respond  yes I have that covered! It was a nice healthy foaming ferment which I just transferred out because I needed this 10 gal pail. I transferred it out at 1.030 so no where near dry. It's still foaming nicely in the new carboys.

If it were dry I would have rinsed it all out and sanitized the pail and just used fresh.


Carolyn


----------



## peaches9324

I was making my pear and apple wine at about the same time and didn't have another pack of yeast and didn't feel like running to the ss to get some more and the fermentation was rolling along in the must I had made the day before I knew the yeast multiply so since it was like wine I skimmed some of yeast off the first batch and pitched it into the sterile must. The day after it was rolling along too!


----------



## ckvchestnut

That's awesome! Nothing like saving a few $$ here and there! I'm glad I tried this!


Carolyn


----------



## peaches9324

Just make sure your adding to sterile must.. don't know if your using fresh berries or what


----------



## JDesCotes

ckvchestnut said:


> That's awesome! Nothing like saving a few $$ here and there! I'm glad I tried this!
> 
> 
> Carolyn




I do my wine making supply shopping at costco. The sugar, lemon juice and fruits are more than half off retail!


----------



## JDesCotes

I priced it out. My batch of Skeeterpee cost $0.50 a bottle


----------



## ckvchestnut

I asked my husband to price the fruit for me and it seemed competitive to Walmart. Can't remember now. Are u taking Costco in the US or CA?


Carolyn


----------



## Rosa321

JDesCotes said:


> I do my wine making supply shopping at costco. The sugar, lemon juice and fruits are more than half off retail!



I too get a lot of my stuff at Sam's Club. I find it comes out cheaper per ounce/pound!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Is that cdn? I pay $10.97 per 1.75kg bag of fruit. Paid $1.50 for 2kg bags of sugar at Walmart. I'm sure sugar is cheaper at Costco... As well as lemon juice.


Carolyn


----------



## JDesCotes

ckvchestnut said:


> I asked my husband to price the fruit for me and it seemed competitive to Walmart. Can't remember now. Are u taking Costco in the US or CA?
> 
> 
> Carolyn




Canada. (Near Toronto)

HUGE pineapples for $3 (fresh) 
Blackberries always come on sale. 
Blueberries are once a year but you get a huge tub for $4 when they're in season. 

Then there's always the 2.72kg bag of frozen strawberries for $8. That's the exact amount required by the recipe too! So no measuring needed!


----------



## JDesCotes

Lemon juice comes in 2 packs for $3

Sugar is 4kg for either 3 or $4. Forget


----------



## ckvchestnut

Those are good prices! When we lived in Ottawa I was always there. Now I have to send hubby with a list of things because he works in the city. But it doesn't help me when I don't know what's on the shelves and at what prices! I just paid $10.97 for a 1.75kg bag of strawberries. 




Carolyn


----------



## Davolous

I paid 9 something for 25 LBS of sugar at Sam's Club.

4 * $1 10oz bags of frozen blue berries dollar store
8 * $1 12oz bags of frozen mixed berry (strawberry, raspberry, and blackberry)
= Yeah 2 extra pounds, but who's counting lol.

The Reallemon I was just happy to find at Food 4 Less.

My excitement for the first batch of Dragon's Blood (under $25) = *Priceless*...lol!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Davolous said:


> I paid 9 something for 25 LBS of sugar at Sam's Club.
> 
> 
> 
> 4 * $1 10oz bags of frozen blue berries dollar store
> 
> 8 * $1 12oz bags of frozen mixed berry (strawberry, raspberry, and blackberry)
> 
> = Yeah 2 extra pounds, but who's counting lol.
> 
> 
> 
> The Reallemon I was just happy to find at Food 4 Less.
> 
> 
> 
> My excitement for the first batch of Dragon's Blood (under $25) = *Priceless*...lol!




I don't get frozen fruit at my dollar stores :-( that's a good price. I pay $39 for a batch but I always use double fruit... Plus lemon juice. Yesterday I tried acid blend in mine... Just to see what the difference is. Oh and I always make between 6.5 to 7gals. Makes it worth my while.


Carolyn


----------



## Davolous

I wanted to try Dragon Blood close to the orginal recipe on the first go.

It's not uncommon for me to walk in a dallor store and grab all the frozen berries they have. I even asked one to the managers to pre-order me cases. None of my dollar store fruit wines have finished yet, so there is no telling if it was worth the hassle of raiding multiple dollar stores to do one batch or wine. It's a pain when you need 32 bags of fruit and you only find 6 at a time. If they have it at all. That is part my Dragon's Blood appeal, normally make use 24 LBS of fruit to make 6 gallons. That and the fact it was created by a fellow Ohio firefighter is just a bonus.


----------



## bkisel

Earlier this morning I pitched the yeast on my first batch of DB (which is also my first non-kit wine). Kitchen temp @ 68F daytime and 65F @ night so added brew belt last night. Must temp @ pitch was 74F and SG was 1.074. From past experience I'll be able to unplug the brew belt while fermentation is really cooking and plug back in during "secondary". I've also found that moving the belt up or down the bucket allows for a bit of temperature regulation.

I'm even more excited about making this DB than I was with my first kit wine. Think it has to do with starting more from scratch with DB than with a kit.


----------



## bkisel

Davolous said:


> I wanted to try Dragon Blood close to the orginal recipe on the first go.
> 
> It's not uncommon for me to walk in a dallor store and grab all the frozen berries they have. I even asked one to the managers to pre-order me cases. None of my dollar store fruit wines have finished yet, so there is no telling if it was worth the hassle of raiding multiple dollar stores to do one batch or wine. It's a pain when you need 32 bags of fruit and you only find 6 at a time. If they have it at all. That is part my Dragon's Blood appeal, normally *make use 24 LBS of fruit to make 6 gallons.* That and the fact it was created by a fellow Ohio firefighter is just a bonus.



Not a challenge, just want to learn... Why so much fruit when the DB recipe calls for just 6 lbs of fruit?

Thanx...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Some people feel that for a good country fruit wine you should use 100% juice and no water. But this recipe wasn't intended to be that. It was intended to be an earlier drinker and a lighter body. I'm sure with all juice it would take longer to age and taste smooth. 

I would love to hear how the 24lbs works! I've used 10lbs first batch and 12lbs for the next two batches. ) 11.57lbs to be exact if you convert my 3 - 1.75kg bags of fruit plus always 2 over ripe bananas unpeeled. All 3 were quite nice in the flavour. I have seen many posts from some people saying that the 6lbs was a bit too light on flavour off the bat. But then read that the fruit flavour comes forward again in time in the bottle. I suppose then if you'd want a really fast drinker, use more fruit. If you don't mind waiting for your flavour to come back and you want to save money try the 6lbs. However, Dave and James would be the best to answer this because they are most experienced at making it both ways.


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> Some people feel that for a good country fruit wine you should use 100% juice and no water. But this recipe wasn't intended to be that. It was intended to be an earlier drinker and a lighter body. I'm sure with all juice it would take longer to age and taste smooth.
> 
> I would love to hear how the 24lbs works! I've used 10lbs first batch and 12lbs for the next two batches. ) 11.57lbs to be exact if you convert my 3 - 1.75kg bags of fruit plus always 2 over ripe bananas unpeeled. All 3 were quite nice in the flavour. I have seen many posts from some people saying that the 6lbs was a bit too light on flavour off the bat. But then read that the fruit flavour comes forward again in time in the bottle. I suppose then if you'd want a really fast drinker, use more fruit. If you don't mind waiting for your flavour to come back and you want to save money try the 6lbs. However, Dave and James would be the best to answer this because they are most experienced at making it both ways.
> 
> 
> Carolyn



So, lets say you use 12 pounds of fruit how do you determine how much water to cut back on? Does the rest of Dave's recipe stay the same?

BTW, the predominant smell I got from the 4 berry must mix is strawberry. Is that normal? I thought I would smell the lemon.


----------



## Davolous

*Reply to bkisel*



bkisel said:


> Not a challenge, just want to learn... Why so much fruit when the DB recipe calls for just 6 lbs of fruit?
> 
> Thanx...



Bill, I only included 8 LBS of fruit in my Dragon's Blood. I was referring to other fruit wines I have made with 4 LBS of fruit per gallon. One of the appeals to Dragons Blood is I only have about $12 in fruit cost.

However chvhestnut, I may consider a quad fruit dose in Dragon's Blood someday.

Sorry I consider C# my first language and English my second (maybe even third or forth behind Javascipt, html, and some other various computer languages). Sometimes what comes out my keyboard doesn't make sense.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I don't cut any water in the recipe everything else stays the same. I'm doing Dave's Dragonette recipe this time round and it calls for 12lbs of fruit. If you search dragonette you'll find that one also. For me I don't cut water, it just means extra fruit.


Carolyn


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## ckvchestnut

Oh and I get the similar strawberry as well. But it all seems to even let a bit. But you'll taste strawberry more apparently using quad berry vs triple berry. Some people have said triple berry is predominantly raspberry. Next time I get to Costco I'll get the triple berry I can't get it a Walmart.

Now I came really close to buying and using frozen cranberries in this as well but only 1 bag or so. Maybe another time! So many choices! 


Carolyn


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## barbl72

Love reading all these posts - I learn so much! I've made 2 batches - one with 2 bags of triple berrry and one with one bag of triple berry and one bag of quad berry. To backsweeten the first I put only a cup of sugar in the whole batch because I like bone dry wine. I backsweetened with 2 cups in the second batch, plus 1/2 bottle of really sweet pear wine during the process as a top-up. The second batch is much more flavorful and not sweet at all. At least not yet but it's less than a month old. I have no more room to bottle anything right now but I think I'll start one more batch and let it age in the carboy. After reading everything I will add more fruit and a couple of bananas too but so far I prefer the triple berry. The batch with strawberries seemed to have a lot more stuff in the bottom of the bucket.
Also to chime in on some posts above, I measured out 10 cups of sugar to one 5 pound bag so I just use two whole 5 pound bags of sugar at the beginning.
Happy Dragon's Blood everybody!


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## ckvchestnut

Hey Barb I guess it's a lot less lees on the triple berry huh? I'll bet I'm going to get a lot more ban usual because this time I had to use 1 bag quad berry, 1 bag strawberry and 1 bag blueberry. We'll see how it goes!


Carolyn


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## bkisel

Please tell me a little more about this adding of bananas. How many? I believe I've read several times here to add to secondary. I believe, maybe in this thread, they should be ripe and not peeled, correct? That not being peeled is hard for me to understand.

Thanx...


----------



## bakervinyard

Working on my first batch of DB. Pitched my yeast last Thursday, O.G. 1.075, checked today it was at 1.016. Temps range from mid 60's before brew belt to low to mid 70's now. Sampled a little taste, nice fruity taste with a slight lemon finish. Looking forward to when its bottled. Bakervinyard


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## bkisel

bakervinyard said:


> Working on my first batch of DB. Pitched my yeast last Thursday, O.G. 1.075, checked today it was at 1.016. Temps range from mid 60's before brew belt to low to mid 70's now. Sampled a little taste, nice fruity taste with a slight lemon finish. Looking forward to when its bottled. Bakervinyard



Are you following the recipe and procedures to the tee or doing some tweaks and adjustments?


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## ckvchestnut

I have never added them to secondary. Just the primary. I have added 2 at a time to the regular DB recipe for added mouthfeel and a bit of body. People do use peels but I don't just never tried it with peels added. I didn't want to upset the balance of the regular recipe. The only reason I tried them in the first place was because I was short on sugar on my first batch and it came out really well so I added them last batch also same good results. Sorry that I can't speak on the peels or benefit because I've never used them. The bananas give me a perceived smoothness to this wine. I have been adding them to pretty much all my fruit wines. I added 6 to my tropical version which good results there also. It's something to experiment with...


Carolyn


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## bakervinyard

Are you following the recipe and procedures to the tee or doing some tweaks and adjustments? 

Bill, I'm following to a tee for my first batch. One question, is my batch fermenting to slow or is it on schedule? Thanks, Bakervinyard


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## ckvchestnut

bakervinyard said:


> Are you following the recipe and procedures to the tee or doing some tweaks and adjustments?
> 
> 
> 
> Bill, I'm following to a tee for my first batch. One question, is my batch fermenting to slow or is it on schedule? Thanks, Bakervinyard




It's looking good for the temp you have it at! It's almost done! 


Carolyn


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## Rosa321

I'm starting a new batch, and I'm using wild blueberries that I picked myself over the summer.

I know I have to add 1/4 tsp of K-meta, but I'm unsure how to add this to all the berries. Do I have to "mix" It with the berries prior to putting it in the bag? Or is it ok to sprinkle the K-Meta on top and stir it in? 
OR.........maybe I'm completely over thinking this and either is just fine! hahahaha
I just want to make sure I kill any possible wild yeast before I add my happy yeast.


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## ckvchestnut

Well is it gonna be all fruit or fruit and water? If fruit and water do like the DB recipe says so the K-meta and other stuff in the water first... 


Carolyn


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## Rosa321

ckvchestnut said:


> Well is it gonna be all fruit or fruit and water? If fruit and water do like the DB recipe says so the K-meta and other stuff in the water first...
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Sorry, should have mentioned it is Dragon's Blood.......but with Frozen Wild Blueberries.....Jet Blue!

I am looking at my Dragon's Blood Recipe now, and it doesn't say to add K-Meta until fermentation is done, SG is stable at <1.000, and I'm ready to clear......

BUT.....I'll assume it's ok if I dissolve the 1/4tsp in the water? I just wasn't sure if it needed to be mixed IN the fruit to kill the yeast there, or if it would be a strong enough concentration if it was in the water and then the fruit bag was added....... Again, I'm probably over thinking this, as I tend to do that in life


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hey Rosa, sorry for not being clear... I didn't want to offend you by saying that since the original DB uses frozen commercial fruit and lemon juice with preservatives that's the reason for no kmeta til end of ferment. Bi since you are using wild fruit put your 1/4 tsp in the water and that will be fine. No need to mix it with the fruit. 


Carolyn


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## ckvchestnut

Oh and Rosa, I want to see pics of that jet blue when it's finally bottled! Want to see the colour!


Carolyn


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## Rosa321

ckvchestnut said:


> Hey Rosa, sorry for not being clear... I didn't want to offend you by saying that since the original DB uses frozen commercial fruit and lemon juice with preservatives that's the reason for no kmeta til end of ferment. Bi since you are using wild fruit put your 1/4 tsp in the water and that will be fine. No need to mix it with the fruit.
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Awesome! Thanks!


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## barbl72

ckvchestnut said:


> Hey Barb I guess it's a lot less lees on the triple berry huh? I'll bet I'm going to get a lot more ban usual because this time I had to use 1 bag quad berry, 1 bag strawberry and 1 bag blueberry. We'll see how it goes!
> 
> 
> Carolyn



I'm sure it will be yummy! I can't wait to start another batch - probably on Sunday. 2 bananas, peeled added to the fruit at the beginning, right?


----------



## jojabri

Racked a double batch of Quad-Berry into secondary today. I must have miscalculated some because I ended up with 12.5 gallons... not complaining. 

I'm really kinda sad about my blackberry batch. I didn't split the batch into 2x 3 gallon primaries and one didn't finish as quickly as the other. When I smelled it today It was kinda foul, so I ended up trashing 3 gallons. Pity, but at least it wasn't a full batch or anything expensive.


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## ckvchestnut

barbl72 said:


> I'm sure it will be yummy! I can't wait to start another batch - probably on Sunday. 2 bananas, peeled added to the fruit at the beginning, right?




Yes that's what I do.., the bananas don't add much in the way of flavour and let us know if you don't find a difference in mouthfeel or body... It's just the impression I get in my experience vs. what some others have shared. 


Carolyn


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## ckvchestnut

jojabri said:


> Racked a double batch of Quad-Berry into secondary today. I must have miscalculated some because I ended up with 12.5 gallons... not complaining.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really kinda sad about my blackberry batch. I didn't split the batch into 2x 3 gallon primaries and one didn't finish as quickly as the other. When I smelled it today It was kinda foul, so I ended up trashing 3 gallons. Pity, but at least it wasn't a full batch or anything expensive.




12.5 gals wowee! Did u use that big blue fermenter u got? What happened with the blackberry? You had one batch waiting for the other one to finish and it went bad? 


Carolyn


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## Rosa321

ckvchestnut said:


> Oh and Rosa, I want to see pics of that jet blue when it's finally bottled! Want to see the colour!
> 
> 
> Carolyn



You got it!!! I have lots of berries, and decided to use 9lbs up front for more fruit flavor and color. l will probably wind up settling in at double the fruit, but I thought I'd give 1.5 times the fruit a shot first! ;-)


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## ckvchestnut

Sounds great! I'm working on a blueberry peach port style right now that's in the clearing stage I'll post it at some point once it's bottled.


Carolyn


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## bkisel

Day three and my first batch has started cooking. Had the brew belt on overnight. Temp was 80F earlier this AM when I went to squeeze and stir. The belt was unplugged and a towel draped over and around the bucket, maybe lost a degree in the last ~3.5 hours. fermentation seems to keep the temp up there.

Was the yeast nutrient and energizer really needed for the EC-118 or is that included in the recipe just for caution/insurance?


----------



## jojabri

ckvchestnut said:


> 12.5 gals wowee! Did u use that big blue fermenter u got? What happened with the blackberry? You had one batch waiting for the other one to finish and it went bad?
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Yes I used the big blue one and it was perfect! I'm going to have to buy at least 1 more.

What happened with the blackberry was since I didn't have a primary any larger than 5 gallons, I was splitting my batches into 2 separate buckets. One bucket went fine and fermented to dry in 8 days. It was slower than most but still acceptable. The 2nd half of the batch in the other bucket just refused to go dry. It took 13 days, and I figure it got too oxidized.

I'm not going to cry over it.


----------



## ckvchestnut

bkisel said:


> Day three and my first batch has started cooking. Had the brew belt on overnight. Temp was 80F earlier this AM when I went to squeeze and stir. The belt was unplugged and a towel draped over and around the bucket, maybe lost a degree in the last ~3.5 hours. fermentation seems to keep the temp up there.
> 
> Was the yeast nutrient and energizer really needed for the EC-118 or is that included in the recipe just for caution/insurance?



I have noticed a few times that fermenting slows when it is in need of its dose of nutrient...


----------



## ckvchestnut

jojabri said:


> Yes I used the big blue one and it was perfect! I'm going to have to buy at least 1 more.
> 
> What happened with the blackberry was since I didn't have a primary any larger than 5 gallons, I was splitting my batches into 2 separate buckets. One bucket went fine and fermented to dry in 8 days. It was slower than most but still acceptable. The 2nd half of the batch in the other bucket just refused to go dry. It took 13 days, and I figure it got too oxidized.
> 
> I'm not going to cry over it.



At least it was only half a batch...


----------



## bkisel

bkisel said:


> Day three and my first batch has started cooking. Had the brew belt on overnight. Temp was 80F earlier this AM when I went to squeeze and stir. The belt was unplugged and a towel draped over and around the bucket, maybe lost a degree in the last ~3.5 hours. fermentation seems to keep the temp up there.
> 
> Was the yeast nutrient and energizer really needed for the EC-118 or is that included in the recipe just for caution/insurance?



I'm a bit surprised... Temperature is only down 2 degrees from this morning's 80F when the brew belt was unplugged. Ambient temp in the kitchen has been 68F. Will plug it back in before going to bed - when we turn the house thermostat down.


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## Rosa321

ckvchestnut said:


> Sounds great! I'm working on a blueberry peach port style right now that's in the clearing stage I'll post it at some point once it's bottled.
> 
> 
> Carolyn



YUM! Also sounds delicious!


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## Rosa321

Question..... how much sugar is everyone adding?
This is only my 2nd batch of DB/SP....first batch I got to 1.086 and this batch was at 1.090 SG at the start. Both times I had to add a 10lb bag of sugar and THEN 3-4 cups on top of it...I'm mixing it completely and making sure there are no more sugar crystals in the liquid, but that is about 23 - 24 cups of sugar.... Does that seem right? Is that comparable to what others are adding?

I know the recipe calls for 20 cups of sugar. I guess what I'm really asking is: Are other people getting about 20 cups out of a 10lb bag? Someone posted a calculation for the cups of sugar in a 5lb bag and it would have left 3 cups unused in a 10lb bag, but I'm just not finding that to be the case. Thoughts???


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## jamesngalveston

Rosa, the 2o cups of sugars is more of a guide line then anything else..
The sugar should be added to get to your target sg, not per say cups per.
Some triple berry blends will be sweeter then others, depending on the ratio of fruit and the time of ripeness.
Lets say, your target sg is 1.095, then for one batch you may use 20 cups, but on another you may have to add 22, and then another you may only use 18.
Add sugar until you get to targeted sg.
I like mine hot, so i add sugar to get to 1.110.on every batch.


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## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> Question..... how much sugar is everyone adding?
> This is only my 2nd batch of DB/SP....first batch I got to 1.086 and this batch was at 1.090 SG at the start. Both times I had to add a 10lb bag of sugar and THEN 3-4 cups on top of it...I'm mixing it completely and making sure there are no more sugar crystals in the liquid, but that is about 23 - 24 cups of sugar.... Does that seem right? Is that comparable to what others are adding?
> 
> I know the recipe calls for 20 cups of sugar. I guess what I'm really asking is: Are other people getting about 20 cups out of a 10lb bag? Someone posted a calculation for the cups of sugar in a 5lb bag and it would have left 3 cups unused in a 10lb bag, but I'm just not finding that to be the case. Thoughts???



I added what I needed to get to the 1.075 that is in the DB recipe. For me that was right around 23 cups. I couldn't find 3 pounds bags of triple berry so I wound up with the quad berry. Maybe that is why my lower SG for the same 23 cups? Seems to fall in line with what James posted.


----------



## oreoman

I made 3 batches-- 2 with triple berry and 1 with tropical and all used 10 pounds plus at least 4 cups. From now on I'm just starting with the 10 pounds and adding from there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## ckvchestnut

bkisel said:


> I added what I needed to get to the 1.075 that is in the DB recipe. For me that was right around 23 cups. I couldn't find 3 pounds bags of triple berry so I wound up with the quad berry. Maybe that is why my lower SG for the same 23 cups? Seems to fall in line with what James posted.




No, I think James was just giving the example if using the 20 cups not insinuating that triple berry takes less sugar in the recipe than quad berry. The only difference between the two is that quad berry has strawberries. He was simply saying not to worry about how many cups you are adding because it could be different every time. So just say add your 10lb bag and take your SG reading and adjust from there... Correct me if I'm wrong James?


Carolyn


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## Rosa321

jamesngalveston said:


> Rosa, the 2o cups of sugars is more of a guide line then anything else..
> The sugar should be added to get to your target sg, not per say cups per.
> Some triple berry blends will be sweeter then others, depending on the ratio of fruit and the time of ripeness.
> Lets say, your target sg is 1.095, then for one batch you may use 20 cups, but on another you may have to add 22, and then another you may only use 18.
> Add sugar until you get to targeted sg.
> I like mine hot, so i add sugar to get to 1.110.on every batch.



Thanks everyone!!!
Am I possibly making another novice mistake?
I printed the recipe and have been following it.... Or so I thought! hehe
As per the recipe, you add the lemon juice, water, sugar, and test for SG.
I did notice that with that much sugar (24cups) & fruit (9lbs) I'm above 6gallons when all is said and done. BUT...... I only tested SG when it seafood to on the recipe (after the sugar) not after the fruit was added...... Was that wrong?

And should I have taken some water out to compensate for more fruit?

Thanks!!!!


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## ckvchestnut

Rosa that's ok you're above the 6 gallon mark because of all the fruit. Once you're done fermenting as the fruit is taken out and you rack off the gross lees you'll lose a lot. 

And you weren't following it wrong. The recipe says careful how much you drive the SG up at this point because the fruit will increase the SG a bit. Maybe it should be clarified to say to take your SG reading again in 24 hrs after the fruit was added to recheck SG and adjust as desired.


Carolyn


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## wineforfun

Rosa,
If you are over the 6 gal. mark, that is not problem as this will leave you some extra to top off with. When I made my first batch, I stuck exactly to the gallon mark and then was short when topping off. 
Any batch of wine I make now I always make a little extra for topping off.........plus, you are going to lose some of that volume when the sediment drops in the primary and then secondary.
As james stated, be more concerned with your SG.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I agree with Wineforfun I always make more so I have top up. Like 1/2 or 1 gallon extra in primary.


Carolyn


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## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> ...
> I know the recipe calls for 20 cups of sugar. I guess what I'm really asking is: Are other people getting about 20 cups out of a 10lb bag?  Someone posted a calculation for the cups of sugar in a 5lb bag and it would have left 3 cups unused in a 10lb bag, but I'm just not finding that to be the case. Thoughts???



That was me. I got the chart from a Domino Sugar web page. There is the disclaimer "Domino® Sugar Package Requirements (approximate)".


----------



## jamesngalveston

Rosa, if you take 6 gallons of water and add sugar to 1.095 then you will have about 7 gallons of liguid...the sugar will change your volume, then if you add lbs of fruit, the volume will change again.
THis is what i do.

for a 6 gallon batch...
i add 6 gallons of water, and the fruit.
i add pecting and let it break down the fruit for 24 hours
i add sugar to get to my starting sg.
i might have 7 are more then 7 gallons.
after i remove the fruit i may have 6 1/2 are 7 gallons
after i rack the first time i may have 6.5 are 6 gallons
as you rack and remove lees you will have less gallons.
always keep anything over what will fill your carboy for use to top off with.


----------



## bkisel

ckvchestnut said:


> No, I think James was just giving the example if using the 20 cups not insinuating that triple berry takes less sugar in the recipe than quad berry. The only difference between the two is that quad berry has strawberries. He was simply saying not to worry about how many cups you are adding because it could be different every time. So just say add your 10lb bag and take your SG reading and adjust from there... Correct me if I'm wrong James?
> 
> 
> Carolyn



Thanks Carolyn, I believe I understand what Steve is/was saying. What I missed, even though Rosa321 emphasized it, was that he added more cups of sugar on top of the 10 pound bag of sugar. Having missed that in my first reading I was looking for an explanation why, thinking Rosa and I both used one 10 pound bag, Rosa's SG was so much higher than mine. I goofed. Need to be more careful in my reading.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dave should change the recipe to state as follows.

Add sugar to get to the target SG of 1.075 are what ever is your preference.

Sometimes it may be less sugar, some times more...It all depends on the fruit,the ratio of fruit, the ripeness when packaged.

If i make my blackberry wine from early harvest berries, i may use 15lbs of sugar to get to sg of 1.110.
If i make my blackberry wine from end of season, i may use 12 lbs of sugar..it all depends on the ripeness.


----------



## Rosa321

jamesngalveston said:


> Dave should change the recipe to state as follows.
> 
> Add sugar to get to the target SG of 1.075 are what ever is your preference.
> 
> Sometimes it may be less sugar, some times more...It all depends on the fruit,the ratio of fruit, the ripeness when packaged.
> 
> If i make my blackberry wine from early harvest berries, i may use 15lbs of sugar to get to sg of 1.110.
> If i make my blackberry wine from end of season, i may use 12 lbs of sugar..it all depends on the ripeness.



Thanks everyone! This is where my confusion its coming in..... Because out sounds if you use the fruit count for some of the gravity. I'm only using the initial sugar and making sure its between 1.085 & 1.090 as the recipe states. 
Should I have it a little lower, and be retesting to account for the fruits sweetness?
It doesn't say that in the recipe I have, but it sounds like that's what you are doing...


----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> Thanks everyone! This is where my confusion its coming in..... Because out sounds if you use the fruit count for some of the gravity. I'm only using the initial sugar and making sure its between 1.085 & 1.090 as the recipe states.
> Should I have it a little lower, and be retesting to account for the fruits sweetness?
> It doesn't say that in the recipe I have, but it sounds like that's what you are doing...



From Dave's instructions on page one of this thread after water to 6 gallons and before adding fruit... Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!

Dave indicates in the sugar adding step that 1.075 will give you a finished abv of "about" 10%-11%.

Guess what we can do is make it once sticking to the recipe and then make adjustments, if need be, on subsequent batches.


----------



## Rosa321

bkisel said:


> From Dave's instructions on page one of this thread after water to 6 gallons and before adding fruit... Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!
> 
> Dave indicates in the sugar adding step that 1.075 will give you a finished abv of "about" 10%-11%.
> 
> Guess what we can do is make it once sticking to the recipe and then make adjustments, if need be, on subsequent batches.


Well...... I guess that is where I goofed! I must have found an old copy that I printed out? Because I'm looking right at it and it DEFINITELY says in step 1 to make your SG between 1.085 & 1.090...... I shall adjust this moving forward!!!!

Still unclear if I should be testing SG again after the addition off the fruit or not, but I guess I will figure that out as I go! 
Thanks again everybody.....


----------



## Rosa321

Yup yup yup...... My confusion came from my outdated recipe!!!! 
Oh well..... Live and learn. I'm only two batches in. hopefully they'll still be drinkable hehe


----------



## ckvchestnut

Yes... You should and you didn't good per se... It's all about what final abv you want in he wine! For me 10-11% is a bit too light. I made my last two stronger and this time I started with an SG of 1.090 to see how I like it.


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> Yup yup yup...... My confusion came from my outdated recipe!!!!
> Oh well..... Live and learn. I'm only two batches in. hopefully they'll still be drinkable hehe



Hey, it could be that you'll have made the best DB ever!


----------



## ckvchestnut

It's all good guys! I haven't made one that I didn't like yet lol


Carolyn


----------



## PAFruitWines

I want to make a 5 gal batch of strawberry DB. I can get 18 lbs of frozen strawberries at Costco or (1) 96 oz can Vintners Harvest at the LHBS for about the same price. Which would give better strawberry flavor? Maybe 15 lbs in primary and 3 in secondary? Or 3 lbs for an fpac when back sweetening? Or is the VH enough?
Thanks


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----------



## jamesngalveston

18lbs of frozen gets my vote for the best flavor.
I use 4lbs of fruit per gallon and i add 2lbs strawberries with 4 cups sugar for a simple syrup added after it ferments dry.


----------



## bakervinyard

Update on my DB. Checked the S.G. today it vwas at .997, I took out the fruit bag and will wait for a stable S.G. Question, Would it be better to backsweeten with a fruit based F-Pac? Thanks, Bakervinyard


----------



## jamesngalveston

If you like the taste you have now...i would make a simple syrup of sugar and water, if you dont like the taste, make a simple syrup out of fruit and sugar.
keep in mind, the fruiteness and sweetness will come forward after a few months of aging, if it last that long.
my never does.


----------



## bkisel

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) Pitched yeast. SG 1.074, Temp 80F +-
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, tmp 80F +-

Does the SG 1.040 seem about right? Because of a pretty much constant 80F and nutrient and energizer I was expecting to see something in the 1.020-1.030 SG neighborhood.

Thanx...


----------



## jamesngalveston

on day 5 mine are close to dry..
what kind of yeast did you use.


----------



## bkisel

jamesngalveston said:


> on day 5 mine are close to dry..
> what kind of yeast did you use.



EC-1118. Judging from bubbles and sound there is active fermentation. I'm not, at this point, dealing with a stuck fermentation.


----------



## Rosa321

bkisel said:


> EC-1118. Judging from bubbles and sound there is active fermentation. I'm not, at this point, dealing with a stuck fermentation.



It's day 5 fot the whole process, but only 3 days since the yeast was added, and possibly only 1-2 days since those little buggers REALLY got to work!!!! 
I wouldn't panic. My last batch took until day 9 of the overall process to be stable at <1.


----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> It's day 5 fot the whole process, but only 3 days since the yeast was added, and possibly only 1-2 days since those little buggers REALLY got to work!!!!
> I wouldn't panic. My last batch took until day 9 of the overall process to be stable at <1.



Thanks for posting. I feel better now.


----------



## dangerdave

I've been out of town, then down with a cold, so I've been a bit out of touch. Thanks for keeping the discussion going, all.

Sleep is the answer. More sleep.


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> I've been out of town, then down with a cold, so I've been a bit out of touch. Thanks for keeping the discussion going, all.
> 
> Sleep is the answer. More sleep.



Still not over the cold? Sleep and if one can get the sympathy - a doting spouse.


----------



## JetJockey

Rosa321 said:


> Sorry, should have mentioned it is Dragon's Blood.......but with Frozen Wild Blueberries.....Jet Blue!
> 
> I am looking at my Dragon's Blood Recipe now, and it doesn't say to add K-Meta until fermentation is done, SG is stable at <1.000, and I'm ready to clear......
> 
> BUT.....I'll assume it's ok if I dissolve the 1/4tsp in the water? I just wasn't sure if it needed to be mixed IN the fruit to kill the yeast there, or if it would be a strong enough concentration if it was in the water and then the fruit bag was added....... Again, I'm probably over thinking this, as I tend to do that in life


Rosa,
I used 100% fresh blueberries for my current batch and I used 1/4 tsp. kmeta in a small primary with the fresh blueberries to kill the native yeasts BEFORE starting the regular DB recipe. I had my berries frozen from summer so the juice strained through the nylon bag and the blueberries were in the bag and tied. I left the kmeta/thawed blueberries/juice sit 24 hours before starting the DB recipe to ensure the native yeasts on the blueberries were killed!

I did add the additional kmeta per the DB recipe after fermentation.


----------



## jamesngalveston

not only does k-meta kill wild yeast,bacteria, it will slow down a ferment.
that is the reason dave omits it from the recipe.....to get a fast ferment.
after all, its a wine that goes from 0 to bottle in around 15 days.


----------



## boozehound

Jet jockey. How many lbs of fresh blueberrys did u use? I also have a freezer full and would like to make DB outta them but don't want to screw it up. 


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----------



## jamesngalveston

for a full bodied and full flavored, i would use 4 lbs per gallon and would omit the lemon....


----------



## boozehound

Sounds good. So without lemon use 1/2teaspoon acid blend per gallon? 


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----------



## Rosa321

JetJockey said:


> Rosa,
> I used 100% fresh blueberries for my current batch and I used 1/4 tsp. kmeta in a small primary with the fresh blueberries to kill the native yeasts BEFORE starting the regular DB recipe. I had my berries frozen from summer so the juice strained through the nylon bag and the blueberries were in the bag and tied. I left the kmeta/thawed blueberries/juice sit 24 hours before starting the DB recipe to ensure the native yeasts on the blueberries were killed!
> 
> I did add the additional kmeta per the DB recipe after fermentation.



Thanks Bob!!! I wasn't sure how to do it , but I'm a big believer in living and learning. 

Your wine sounds delicious  Maybe I'll try a smaller batch of 100% blueberry......Have you done this many times before? Does it take a long time to age?


----------



## Winenoob66

Here's a thought for you guys that are wanting to use fresh fruit, When you cold stabilize wine it kills the yeast and helps clear it, so technically if you freeze the fruit (which will also help to draw out the juices) it will kill any wild yeast so you won't have to add any K-meta before fermenting.


----------



## jamesngalveston

it really does not matter if the fruit has wild yeast on it are not...
when you add water,sugar and chemicals, and then add your wine yeast the dominate strain kills off the lesser wild.
and no wild yeast will start ferment after 2 to 5 days, which gives you plenty of time to start it with your own yeast.


----------



## kryptonitewine

I used frozen blueberries and added no kmeta. Worked fine for me. Maybe I got lucky but Dave doesn't add kmeta to his either. 


Jim


----------



## kryptonitewine

jamesngalveston said:


> for a full bodied and full flavored, i would use 4 lbs per gallon and would omit the lemon....




I used half the normal amount of lemon and about 3lbs of fruit/gallon. Very happy with my results. 4lbs would be awesome but I didn't save that many from summer. 


Jim


----------



## China-Clipper

*Ready to rack*

Well, my DB is ready to rack to a bucket for degas and sweetening, then back to the carboy for clearing. In the mean time I picked up a new kit...anybody have any luck with this Cabernet Sauvignon?


----------



## tmmii

Day 4, my kitchen is smelling delicious from this stuff!!


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----------



## jamesngalveston

china clipper, you should clear it before adding sorbate and backsweetning.
and always mix your sorbate with a little water before adding to wine.


----------



## bkisel

jamesngalveston said:


> china clipper, you should clear it before adding sorbate and backsweetning.
> and always mix your sorbate with a little water before adding to wine.



I intended to do it just like china-clipper reasoning that it is how I've done it, according to directions, with the kits I've made. Clearing came after stabilization and back sweetening. Is there some difference with DB or fruit wines in general that requires a different procedure? 

Why always? With the 8 RJS kits I've done instructions just have you pouring the sorbate and k-meta into the wine and stirring. The 1 MM kit I did had me mix with water as you say.

Thanx...


----------



## China-Clipper

I intended to do what I said, but since I had already added the sorbate, this is what I'm doing now. Rack back into carboy (sorbate already added), degas some more, add k-meta and super-kleer. Then I'll wait until final clearing, rack into pail and sweeten to taste...then bottle. Think this will be OK?


----------



## Rosa321

Winenoob66 said:


> Here's a thought for you guys that are wanting to use fresh fruit, When you cold stabilize wine it kills the yeast and helps clear it, so technically if you freeze the fruit (which will also help to draw out the juices) it will kill any wild yeast so you won't have to add any K-meta before fermenting.



Hmmmmm....... Interesting idea. Do you have any articles to support this?
As a former pharmaceutical microbiologist, I know freezing cultures (cryopreservation) does not kill them, or sterilize. Frozen cultures can be used as starter cultures quite easily.
I don't know if I buy the idea that freezing kills the yeast.


However...... James might be on to something...... The wild yeast may very well just be overwhelmed and out numbered by the yeast we add. And in the amount of time we let it ferment may not be long enough to see the wild yeast amount to much.

I added k-meta to the blueberries just in case..... I'd rather a slower ferment than to risk losing my hard grown, hard picked berries!!!!  

Perhaps future experimentation is needed!!!


----------



## jamesngalveston

answers:

never add sorbate to a cloudy wine....many many document supports this..
the least amounts of viable yeast will be in a clear wine. thus allowing the sorbate to work better.
always mix sorbate with water first, it then becomes sorbic acid which is soluble in alcohol.
potassium sorbate is not soluble in alcohol.

I have made two batches of wine with wild yeast, the first was a mustang grapes, it took 3 weeks to start ferment and took 4 months to ferment dry.
Same with a blackberry...took about a month to really start ferment, and about 4 to complete.
Both had no added chemincals...just sugar ,fruit,juice.
and both were unpleasant to drink.

read: http://www.vawa.net/winemaking-articles/sorbatetable.html

look it up.


----------



## China-Clipper

Well, after the DB clears I guess I'll just have to re-sorbate, as the super-kleer will pull out the sorbate too....correct?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i honestly do not know if the sk will remove the sorbate..
i would check abv,ph, and add sorbate according charts for said ph and abv...that way you wont be over doing it.


----------



## cmason1957

China-Clipper said:


> Well, after the DB clears I guess I'll just have to re-sorbate, as the super-kleer will pull out the sorbate too....correct?



No need to re-sorbate, it will not all be stripped out. I have done it that way many times. I always put my sorbate in the bottom of an empty carboy and rack the wine onto it, then add clearing agents. 

Wine is 10-13% alcohol, the leftover is water. No need to mix sorbate with water and add to wine. There is plenty of water in your wine.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i dis agree with you mason...there is no water left, its alcohol...and sorbate will not disolve in alcohol....look it up.


----------



## cmason1957

alcohol by volume: the number of ml of ethyl alcohol present in each 100 ml of an alcoholic beverage when measured at 20°C.

so we make 10-13% ABV, that means 90-87% water. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_by_volume


----------



## jamesngalveston

you are correct with that .
http://nanaimowinemakers.org/Notes/Sorbate.htm


----------



## tshank

Just finished bottling my first batch of DB, look great and tastes even better, also bottled my WE raspberry peach sangria today.




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----------



## jamesngalveston

good job, looks excellent....now...better make some more....summer is coming.


----------



## bkisel

Awesome tshank. An inspiration to those of us working on our first batch.

How close did you stick to Dave's DB recipe/instructions?

Thanx...


----------



## tshank

I followed the recipe exactly, next batch I plan on adding more fruit.


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----------



## China-Clipper

I followed Dave's recipe verbatim with the exception of only using 32oz of lemon juice as opposed to 48. Planning on adding his suggestion of 3/4 cups of sugar per gallon also. I'll check the SG to see what that will bring it to for future reference. After this first batch I can experiment as necessary.


----------



## bkisel

Yeah, I'm sticking to the recipe but maybe switching up the steps a bit. If I generally like the results the first time around I might try a second batch with some tweaks/adjustments of my own or what others here have tried and are pleased with the results of theirs.


----------



## Rosa321

So.....I started a batch of blueberry only Dragon's blood (Jet Blue) on Wed....
I used wild blueberries and added 1/4 tsp K-meta just in case! 
I pitched my yeast Thurs, and now I have a VERY active ferment. So much so that the bubbles are actually pushing up the lid on the primary, and I can see some air space.
I didn't have this happen last time, but last time I used 6lbs of fruit and this Time I'm using 9, and I didn't reduce any of the liquid in the recipe to compensate....

So anyway, my question is, is this ok? Should I be worried about contamination? Will the CO2 given off keep my batch safe? 

Thanks!


----------



## ShawnDTurner

The c02 will keep it safe. Once the fermentation is no longer vigorous. Secure the lid and add airlock for rest of the primary fermentation

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----------



## jamesngalveston

remove the lid and cover with a cloth until its done fermenting.


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## jamesngalveston

Rosa, your db needs as much oxygen as you can give it, to keep that ferment rolling.....Restricting the oxygen can be worst then worrying about contamination during ferment.
I ferment in 5 and 7 gallon buckets and brute cans all the time...I never use a lid , just a cloth...and I ferment to dry in the primary.


----------



## Julie

Once your wine is down to 1.010, it does not need that much oxygen, either snap the lid down and add an airlock or rack to a carboy and add an airlock. The last thing you want to do is to introduce oxidation to your wine.


----------



## bkisel

Still cookin as of this Sunday morning. I'm guessing in two days (Tuesday) I'll be moving to *Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000, do the following:*.

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) Pitched yeast. SG 1.074, Temp 80F +-
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-


----------



## jamesngalveston

I agree with julie, oxidation is the last thing you want to happen to a wine.
no matter what stage.
some move wine to a carboy when its 1.110
some wait till its 1.100
some ferment to dry in the primary.
no matter what, it needs an airlock at the end of fermentation, to clear and stabilize.


----------



## jamesngalveston

this is a good read for oxidation.
http://www.sommelierjournal.com/articles/article.aspx?year=2008&month=6&articlenum=47


----------



## ckvchestnut

[ QUOTE=jamesngalveston;496106]I agree with julie, oxidation is the last thing you want to happen to a wine.
no matter what stage.
some move wine to a carboy when its 1.110
some wait till its 1.100
some ferment to dry in the primary.
no matter what, it needs an airlock at the end of fermentation, to clear and stabilize.[/QUOTE]


Think James meant 1.010 and 1.000  sound like everyone's batches are going well!! I started mine on Feb. 24th in the evening and it's now down to 1.030 so getting close...



Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

yea i did....im tired, very tired...and been with the flu for a week.
nothing makes sense...lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

Aw! James I'm sorry to hear that! You seem to have overworked yourself in Houston! I hope you feel better soon!


Carolyn


----------



## Julie

James, sorry to hear that you are not feeling well. For a minute there I thought you were just a very good dancer. You were doing the two step very well, lol.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm with you, James. Been fighting a sinus cold for a week. Makes it very hard to concentrate.

Anyways, looks like all the recipes are doing well.

Rose (as you probably already figured out), use a little less water if you add extra fruit and your rpimary space is limited. the foam will dissipate to a low fizz after a few days.

Everyone has their own take on primary fermentation. Just know that I have always fermented my DB to dry in the primary, lid sitting on top (not snapped down), and covered with a cloth. As the recipe suggests, after dropping below SG 1.000, I remove the fruit bag(s) and leave it undesturbed for a few more days (not removing the lid or stirring). This prevents unwanted exposure to O2 towards the end of the ferment.

Since I was feeling a little better yesterday, I mixed up a big triple batch (18 gallons) of DB in my BRUTE. Pitched the yeast this morning. By tomorrow the house will be stankin' with the great smell of fermenting wine!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I as you started feeling a little better today and started a strawberry/blackberry ..trying to get a stock pile before summer..


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> I'm with you, James. Been fighting a sinus cold for a week. Makes it very hard to concentrate.
> 
> Since I was feeling a little better yesterday, I mixed up a big triple batch (18 gallons) of DB in my BRUTE. Pitched the yeast this morning. By tomorrow the house will be stankin' with the great smell of fermenting wine!




Dave hope you feel better soon too! 18 gals!! I'm jealous! I need to get me a brute can lol!



Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

lol, carolyn...you better get a few strong guys to help you move it are, one aio.....18 gallons is heavy.


----------



## ckvchestnut

I know!! I won't be able to tackle this until I have an aio! They do have optional trollies for them for sale at Home Depot though! Just wondering though... Can I do just transfers with my super jet? No filters?? 


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> ...
> Rose (as you probably already figured out), use a little less water if you add extra fruit and your rpimary space is limited. ...



Dave, so let us say you're using 9 pounds instead of six pounds of fruit, do you need to adjust the recipe with regards to the tannin etc?

Thanx...


----------



## China-Clipper

*About that "oxidation"*

I was wondering.......when I racked my DB to the carboy the fermentation had pretty much stopped in the primary. I added K-meta when I racked and have a head space of about 3". My question is: doesn't the K-meta give off SO2 gas? Wouldn't this form a "layer" above the wine and help protect it from oxygen much as the layer of CO2 does during primary fermentation?


----------



## ckvchestnut

China-Clipper said:


> I was wondering.......when I racked my DB to the carboy the fermentation had pretty much stopped in the primary. I added K-meta when I racked and have a head space of about 3". My question is: doesn't the K-meta give off SO2 gas? Wouldn't this form a "layer" above the wine and help protect it from oxygen much as the layer of CO2 does during primary fermentation?




Yup and also 3 inches is no big deal... 3 inches from the neck or from the top of the opening? 


Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

bkisel, use the same volumes of measurements unless you are adding like 3 times the fruit, then add more pectin to help break it down..
9 to 12 lbs you are ok using the same, after about 12, i would increase the pectin enzyme.


----------



## bkisel

jamesngalveston said:


> bkisel, use the same volumes of measurements unless you are adding like 3 times the fruit, then add more pectin to help break it down..
> 9 to 12 lbs you are ok using the same, after about 12, i would increase the pectin enzyme.



Thanks, just the info I was looking for.

Anyone just make a fruit quantity adjustment to the DB? How did the results compare with the 6 pound recipe?

Thanx...


----------



## dangerdave

bkisel said:


> Thanks, just the info I was looking for.
> 
> Anyone just make a fruit quantity adjustment to the DB? How did the results compare with the 6 pound recipe?
> 
> Thanx...


 
As James will no doubt tell you, he uses twice the fruit in all his batches. Gives it more flavor. I'm perfectly happy with the six pound batches. The choice is yours. As far as adjusting the other ingredients for double the fruit, you don't have to make any changes at that level.


----------



## bkisel

Man, I'm so anxious to see how this DB turns out. The frugal in me keeps thinking about how great it would be to have a wine that you like only costing ~ $1.30-$1.50 per 750ML worth of consumables. Even my RJS VdV kit wines come out costing about a buck or so more per bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

I'm sure you'll be pleased, Bill. It's a real hit with the masses---emphasis on "masses". Once they get their hands on it, you'll never be able to stop making it. I've just reached my 105th batch of wine over the past two and a half years, and I bet half (or more) have been Dragon Blood or some variation.


----------



## Winenoob66

lol 105 batches x 6 gallons = 630 Gallons divided by 30 months = 21 gallons a month. Guess we know what yall do for fun in Ohio lmao


----------



## jamesngalveston

i have made many many batches of different variants of db...
the original is still by far the best...it is hard to beat something that is perfect.
the original just has a flavor of its own, light, refreshing and with a gorgeous color...hard to beat.


----------



## dangerdave

I agree, James. I like the other varieties I have made, but the original is still the favorate at our house.


----------



## CowboyRam

Here is my batch of Strawberry Rhubarb DB. Have been bulk aging for about six weeks now; I think I am going to age it a little more before I bottle. How long should I wait to bottle after sweeting?





[/url][/IMG]


----------



## China-Clipper

ckvchestnut said:


> Yup and also 3 inches is no big deal... 3 inches from the neck or from the top of the opening?
> 
> 
> Carolyn



The level is about 2 inches from the bottom of the neck, or right about where the flare ends. I added the Super-Kleer yesterday, so it should be like that for about a week at which time I'll bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

CowboyRam said:


> Here is my batch of Strawberry Rhubarb DB. Have been bulk aging for about six weeks now; I think I am going to age it a little more before I bottle. How long should I wait to bottle after sweeting?


 
I like to give mine a week after sweetening, just to be sure. Strawberry/Rhubarb sound great!

China-Clipper: Yours should be fine for that short period of time without topping up further. Good job!


----------



## Terri

Bottled our first batch made it to the "T" from your recipe Dave using 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon. It is very very very good! The second batch has been started.

I am so happy to have found this site, my husband and I have learned so much in just a few months just from browsing.


----------



## jamesngalveston

congrats to you terri, you will learn, that you can not make enough of it...
post a pic of your finished wine, so we can all admire it....


----------



## bkisel

Terri said:


> Bottled our first batch made it to the "T" from your recipe Dave using 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon. It is very very very good! The second batch has been started.
> 
> I am so happy to have found this site, my husband and I have learned so much in just a few months just from browsing.



That's good to hear. "very very very good" borders on EXCELLENT. 

Do you remember on what day you hit your SG 1.000? Reason I ask is I'm now on day 8 and got a SG 1.010. That is down from yesterday's 1.014 but at that rate it looks like another 3 days, day 11, until I hit 1.000.

Thanx


----------



## jamesngalveston

i looked at my logs today and most of the time i hit 1.000 on day 5, and .990 on day 7 are 8.

i use superferment for yeast nutrient
and about 95 percent of the time i use pasteur red are premier curvee yeast


----------



## Terri

bkisel said:


> That's good to hear. "very very very good" borders on EXCELLENT.
> 
> Do you remember on what day you hit your SG 1.000? Reason I ask is I'm now on day 8 and got a SG 1.010. That is down from yesterday's 1.014 but at that rate it looks like another 3 days, day 11, until I hit 1.000.
> 
> Thanx



I will have to ask my husband he kept the log. I will let you know later today.


----------



## wineforfun

bkisel said:


> That's good to hear. "very very very good" borders on EXCELLENT.
> 
> Do you remember on what day you hit your SG 1.000? Reason I ask is I'm now on day 8 and got a SG 1.010. That is down from yesterday's 1.014 but at that rate it looks like another 3 days, day 11, until I hit 1.000.
> 
> Thanx



Mine usually run anywhere from 7-10 days to get dry. I don't use any extra additives other than what Dave has listed on the recipe. Just keep stirring it real well and you will be good to go.


----------



## jkrug

Ii have racked mine to secondary. Tasted it since I am curious. Unfortunately it was tastless. What can I do to improve the taste? Did I do something wrong,? Will taste come through with aging? Any comments or thoughts appreciated. 

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----------



## jamesngalveston

I would imagine its still full of co2 and dead yeast cells..
Degass and clear it first, then determine what to do from that point.
After its racked a few times and all the co2 out it will taste completely different.


----------



## jkrug

Thanks James I will do that. 

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----------



## dangerdave

*New Lesson Learned*

So, I started a triple batch of original DB two days ago. I pitched the yeast yesterday morning before going to work. While I was getting my yeast together (EC-1118), I kept asking myself, "Do I _really_ need three packets of yeast?". Now, I know someone will come on and say they already knew this, but I had always added three packets of yeast to my big batches. It's how my (usually) logical mind works. Simple. Triple batch, triple ingredients.

So, out of character, I added just _one_ packet of rehydrated EC-1118. I figured if it didn't take off after 24 hours, I'd pitch some more.

I came home this morning to vigorous primary fermentation!







So, I've discovered even further savings by making larger batches! I know the yeast doesn't cost much, but every penny counts.


----------



## Terri

bkisel said:


> That's good to hear. "very very very good" borders on EXCELLENT.
> 
> Do you remember on what day you hit your SG 1.000? Reason I ask is I'm now on day 8 and got a SG 1.010. That is down from yesterday's 1.014 but at that rate it looks like another 3 days, day 11, until I hit 1.000.
> 
> Thanx



Bill
It has been 9 days for both batches. We just checked second batch today and it is below 1.000 so we will check again and rack as long as it stays steady we will rack in a couple of days.


----------



## bkisel

Terri said:


> Bill
> It has been 9 days for both batches. We just checked second batch today and it is below 1.000 so we will check again and rack as long as it stays steady we will rack in a couple of days.



Thanks for the info. I'm just a little anxious because all my experience has been with kits and they all fermented faster then this DB and oft at lower temperatures than the pretty steady 80F +- for this DB batch.

I think that I'm going to pull the fruit out Wednesday even if I find the SG is a bit over 1.000. Give it one last good stir and lock it down. Check it on day 14.


----------



## Julie

dangerdave said:


> So, I started a triple batch of original DB two days ago. I pitched the yeast yesterday morning before going to work. While I was getting my yeast together (EC-1118), I kept asking myself, "Do I _really_ need three packets of yeast?". Now, I know someone will come on and say they already knew this, but I had always added three packets of yeast to my big batches. It's how my (usually) logical mind works. Simple. Triple batch, triple ingredients.
> 
> So, out of character, I added just _one_ packet of rehydrated EC-1118. I figured if it didn't take off after 24 hours, I'd pitch some more.
> 
> I came home this morning to vigorous primary fermentation!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I've discovered even further savings by making larger batches! I know the yeast doesn't cost much, but every penny counts.



Dave, one packet of yeast will only ferment six gallons, if you are making more than six gallons I don't think the yeast will ferment it to dry.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dave, what julie says makes perfect sense, BUT...
There was a russian guy that used to post here last year, he was a fermenting nut....maybe julie knows whom he is..
He did a test on a one gallon batch of wine....He used a lalvin yeast...
He mixed the fruit with water and sugar,,,,and counted out...
3 grains of yeast, testing to see if it fermented.
first day it double, the second in tripled, the third it quadrupled.
not sure what happen to the test...but it was an indicator that yeast will multiply.
keep us posted on your ferment..would be interesting to know....


----------



## Julie

James, yes yeast will multiply but only to a certain point. And sorry, I do not remember who the Russian is.


----------



## cmason1957

Putting in just one packet, probably will work, but I don't think it is a good thing to promote to all. Here's why I say it will probably work, the normal rate of yeast application is 1 g of yeast / gallon of must so 18 grams is what would be recommended by that math. Each yeast pack is 8 g, so 2 packs gets you to almost the 1 g /gallon. So, after one doubling generation, you are probably at the same as using two packets.

Now having said all that, I like to increase my odds of success, so I would have used three packs. Also, I like to think part of the point of this website is to promote best practices.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I dont think dave are myself was promoting the amount of yeast to use.
I agree with julie and you, 1 gram should be used for 1 gallon of must.
I was merely telling dave that it may work, and may not based on what this russian was experimenting with on his yeast studies.
I also agree that best practice should be used for everything,but that does not mean they every post will be.
And every post does not mean someone should do what the poster says are does.


----------



## jamesngalveston

julie, his name was luke, are lucke, are something like that...cant find his post. may have been german...just cant remember...
thanks


----------



## wpt-me

I believe the gentleman you are alluding to was Finnish.
Luc Lumeisenman ??


Bill


----------



## jamesngalveston

yes thats it.. thank you....


----------



## jamesngalveston

what ever happened to him, he seemed very passionate about his wine.


----------



## wildvines

My last recent batch took a few days to kick in. So think 7 days for me and was dry


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

bkisel said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm just a little anxious because all my experience has been with kits and they all fermented faster then this DB and oft at lower temperatures than the pretty steady 80F +- for this DB batch.
> 
> I think that I'm going to pull the fruit out Wednesday even if I find the SG is a bit over 1.000. Give it one last good stir and lock it down. Check it on day 14.



*Step 4 here I come!*

SG dropped from 1.010 to 0.997 yesterday morning to this morning. Bucket is locked down, seeing airlock burping about every 4 seconds so seal is tight. Took about 15 minutes or so to see that first bubble.

Nylon bag was easier to clean than what I had anticipated. Did however have to use a fair amount of rinse water to get every piece of pulp flushed out.

Started Monday 02/24/2014

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds


----------



## jamesngalveston

looks like your right in the ball park, wont be long now, till you will be bottling.......


----------



## dangerdave

I appreciate the input everyone. Call it an experiment. I've made several of these large batches. The thing that shocked me was the amount of fermentation that had occurred with just one packet in the BRUTE. Now, I may be simplistic in my thinking---my wonderful wife would certainly agree, lol---but there it is.

My understanding of yeast (which may very well be erroneous) is that it functions much like bacteria. Just a few cells, given the right conditions, can turn into millions as the colony reproduces generation after generation. I figure that at on a certain scale, this theory would collapse. You wouldn't want to try to ferment a hundred gallons with a few grams of yeast. However, my hypothesis in this case is that the yeast, given enough nutrient and energizer, would multiple and thrive until it's food (sugar) is gone and the wine is dry. Like a colony of mice that grows exponentially until the food runs out, then dies off.

_I certainly do not want to promote bad practices in wine making_. I just wanted to see if it would work with less yeast up front. I may be completely wrong, but it appears to be going strong right now, with a thick, foamy cap, and active bubbling. I'm going to keep at it, keeping it warm, squeezing and stirring and measuring. I will keep those interested abreast.

On March 1st, I mixed the must, which had a SG 0f 1.075 before adding the fruit. I pitched the yeast on the morning of March 2nd. Today, on day two of fermentation, the SG is down to 1.060 at 78F. So far, it appears to be rolling right along. I'll keep a close eye on it. Stay tuned.


----------



## Julie

Yes please keep us posted. My thought would be that there would be too much sugar for one packet to eat up. Something like if you add too much sugar to your must, the yeast will only eat so much and you can end up with a sweet wine. Granted there is no guarantee to that and another thing would be if there would be off flavors due to stressing out the yeast.

So I am interested in how you do.


----------



## bkisel

I'll definitely stay tuned. This is the first thread I look for when coming to WMT. Of course being in the process of doing my first DB and non-kit wine keeps me particularly interested and involved.


----------



## dangerdave

Thank you, Julie. I appreciate your experience and your input into my humble little thread. I am still very capable of making mistakes, but I like to experiment. I appreciate you watching my backside. I won't tell Johnna...

<Please don't send me to the corner! It smells funny over there!>


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dave, I agree that input from the more expierenced like Julie and others that have so much wine bottled, is a most valuable tool in our wine making arsenal.They have by far have encountered more situations then I have seen, and they learned as they made mistakes, which surely helps us along, and they are happy to help when they can.
Hats off to all of them....
This person luc, i found out has written several books on wine making and is considered by jack kellar to be one of the best home wine makers, I just can not find the trials he did on using small amounts of yeast.


----------



## reefman

Here's the link to Luc volders' blog, you might have to search to find the yeast trials.
It has an English version below the Dutch version
http://www.wijnmaker.blogspot.com/


----------



## jamesngalveston

thanks reefman...some where he did something similar on yeast multiplication


----------



## ckvchestnut

I don't have much experience either obviously but I have been making 7 gals or so on one pkg of yeast. Ots
Not 18 gals though. Would be interesting to see what happens. I think it will happen just slower. My current batch is about 7 gals and I started on a tiny amount of wine & lees from a white wine that was in fermentation at 1.030. It is fermenting but not as quickly to dry as with a full fresh pkg of yeast. It's been 8 days an in down to 1.010 now.


Carolyn


----------



## reefman

here's the link to his index page, but many of the links are dead.

http://wijnmaker.weebly.com/english-start.html


----------



## reefman

Hmmmm, the links work from home. I guess my work place has them blocked....bummer!


----------



## Rosa321

so my current batch is JetBlue.... with nine pounds of blueberries. it's not quite dry and my specific gravity has not stabilized.
anyway, I'm noticing an odd smell. Maybe chemical? I did not notice this last time but I did triple berry and used less fruit.
I'm not getting the smell of yeast.... it could possibly the the smell of alcohol but it smells a little more like nail polish remover. has anyone made JetBlue or Dragons Blood and had an off smell? could this be normal or is my wine ruined?

thanks in advance for your help! This is only my second batch....


----------



## dangerdave

The acetone-like smell is likely from the alcohol. Acetone (used in nail polish remover) is usually derived by oxidation of isopropyl alcohol or by bacterial fermentation of carbohydrates. If you are concerned, rack it to a carboy to finish up under airlock. I have never had a batch smell like that.


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> The acetone-like smell is likely from the alcohol. Acetone (used in nail polish remover) is usually derived by oxidation of isopropyl alcohol or by bacterial fermentation of carbohydrates. If you are concerned, rack it to a carboy to finish up under airlock. I have never had a batch smell like that.



Thanks, Dave!
I just spent several minutes smelling it lol......I can't decide if it's a harsh alcohol smell or an acetone smell...... But it smells strong, and not like blueberries so much.

It's it ruined? If I rack to a carboy, and there is acetone, what happens then?

Did this happen because if was pushing on the lid and it wasn't on all the way??? I'm so sad if it's ruined. I'm always so careful and aseptic when I work with wine. :'(


----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> ...
> Did this happen because if was pushing on the lid and it wasn't on all the way??? ...



I'm guessing that if your wine is not yet dry it is still fermenting and producing at least some CO2 and that CO2 being heavier than air has provided protection even though the lid was not completely locked down. With my very first batch of wine, an RJS VdV Pinot Noir, I saw not a single bubble from the airlock start to finish of fermentation (14 days). Turned out the lid had a cut rubber ring with about one inch missing. All the gas was taking the path of least resistance, escaping through this gap, and not forcing its way up through the airlock. The wine was not hurt by this.


----------



## dangerdave

Rosa321 said:


> Thanks, Dave!
> I just spent several minutes smelling it lol......I can't decide if it's a harsh alcohol smell or an acetone smell...... But it smells strong, and not like blueberries so much.
> 
> It's it ruined? If I rack to a carboy, and there is acetone, what happens then?
> 
> Did this happen because if was pushing on the lid and it wasn't on all the way??? I'm so sad if it's ruined. I'm always so careful and aseptic when I work with wine. :'(


 
Oh, Rosa! Do not fret! It isn't ruined, I promise you. This recipe is nearly bullet proof. Great for people starting out making their first home made wines. It is going to be good.

I thought we had discussed this when you started, maybe not. I usually try to give people the heads up. The blueberry version takes some time to come around and taste like blueberries. At the beginning, it will not smell like blueberries, either. This one has a charcter all it's own. Stick with it.

I repeat, it is going to be good!


----------



## PoppaCork

*Mad mango*

I like all the different DB's I have made but, I have a new favorite! 

Just bottled 31 bottles of mango DB. I call it, MAD MANGO!
Starting sg was 1.1, ending sg was .986. 
I used 30 lbs frozen mango chunks for a 6 gallon batch. 
Mangos leave a *lot* of sediment suspended, it took 14 days to clear after adding the Super-Kleer!(was starting to think I had a bad batch of Super-Kleer) 

Mango stains! 
I use a white Brute to ferment in and the mango stained it yellow where the cap was! Not that it bothers me, I just found it interesting. I use food service gloves to squeeze the fruit bag and it even stained them in a single use of them. You don't want to get mango on anything you don't want yellow!

I have used the same Brute container to ferment blueberry, blackberry and triple berry, and none of them stained it at all! 

I don't have the most educated palate, but to me, this is the best, smoothest tasting on bottling day, of all the DB's I have made. 
I like this batch so much that it will get a 'PRIVATE PERSONAL STOCK' label on it.

Here is how it looks in the bottle.

















Has anyone made a banana version of DB? I am considering making a batch...


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> Oh, Rosa! Do not fret! It isn't ruined, I promise you. This recipe is nearly bullet proof. Great for people starting out making their first home made wines. It is going to be good.
> 
> I thought we had discussed this when you started, maybe not. I usually try to give people the heads up. The blueberry version takes some time to come around and taste like blueberries. At the beginning, it will not smell like blueberries, either. This one has a charcter all it's own. Stick with it.
> 
> I repeat, it is going to be good!



Thank you so much for your vote of confidence!!!
We did discuss the aging process. I guess I just wasn't ready for the smell! haha
Could be the higher amount of fruit, or just a characteristic of blueberry, but my one and only other batch didn't smell like this. 

I'm sure if it didn't spoil, it will come around. Perhaps I have a nice Christmas wine on my hands


----------



## Rosa321

PoppaCork said:


> I like all the different DB's I have made but, I have a new favorite!
> 
> Just bottled 31 bottles of mango DB. I call it, MAD MANGO!
> Starting sg was 1.1, ending sg was .986.
> I used 30 lbs frozen mango chunks for a 6 gallon batch.
> Mangos leave a *lot* of sediment suspended, it took 14 days to clear after adding the Super-Kleer!(was starting to think I had a bad batch of Super-Kleer)
> 
> Mango stains!
> I use a white Brute to ferment in and the mango stained it yellow where the cap was! Not that it bothers me, I just found it interesting. I use food service gloves to squeeze the fruit bag and it even stained them in a single use of them. You don't want to get mango on anything you don't want yellow!
> 
> I have used the same Brute container to ferment blueberry, blackberry and triple berry, and none of them stained it at all!
> 
> I don't have the most educated palate, but to me, this is the best, smoothest tasting on bottling day, of all the DB's I have made.
> I like this batch so much that it will get a 'PRIVATE PERSONAL STOCK' label .



Wow! Looks great!!
Did you keep everything else the same in the recipe (i.e. Lemon juice instead of acid blend etc.). Looks like a recipe I may have to try some day!


----------



## oreoman

Poppa-- that mango sounds yummy!! Looks great too!! That just might be a future batch for me!!
Joann


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## PoppaCork

Rosa321 said:


> Wow! Looks great!!
> Did you keep everything else the same in the recipe (i.e. Lemon juice instead of acid blend etc.). Looks like a recipe I may have to try some day!



Thanks. 

I forgot to mention that I did not use any lemon juice, I used 3 teaspoons of acid blend in it's place, and I used 6 lb. per gallon of fruit(30 lb. total), all else is by the recipe.


----------



## bkisel

Greg,

Are mango chunks readily available? Where do you get them? Why did you substitute the acid blend in place of the lemon juice?

Thanx...


----------



## Rosa321

PoppaCork said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I forgot to mention that I did not use any lemon juice, I used 3 teaspoons of acid blend in it's place, and I used 6 lb. per gallon of fruit(30 lb. total), all else is by the recipe.



Fantastic!!!!!!! I'm putting it on my to do list


----------



## PoppaCork

bkisel said:


> Greg,
> 
> Are mango chunks readily available? Where do you get them? Why did you substitute the acid blend in place of the lemon juice?
> 
> Thanx...



I found the frozen mango chunks locally at a store called Jungle Jim's. They had them for approx. $8.00 for 2.50 lbs.. I have heard they are also available at Trader Joe's. I hope you can find some, it is worth it. 

If you were to get fresh mangoes, you should be aware that, "The sap of the mango tree and the skin of its fruit contain urushiol, the same irritating chemical that causes reactions to poison ivy and poison oak. Most people who react with an itchy rash can still eat the fruit if it has been peeled for them. But some people react to eating mangos with serious allergic symptoms such as swelling of the lips, face and tongue and even anaphylaxis." (info copied from peoplespharmacy.com website) 


I used the acid blend because the wife does not like lemon juice, and I have a low tolerance for it.


----------



## bkisel

Greg, Given your numbers the mango alone cost $96.00. A BIG attraction for me of the DB recipe is the relatively inexpensive cost to make a wine that gets pretty good reviews. Would you not get a decent mango wine using say 6-10# of mango?

Thanx...


----------



## PoppaCork

Bill, it was recommended to me to use 6 -10 lbs. per gallon for the mango wine, I only used 5 lbs. per gallon because I bought all they had left. 
I am not sure I would try it with much less, unless you want to back-sweeten with a mango concentrate. 
My understanding is that lighter color fruits tend to require more fruit to bring out the flavor. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about it will chime in... 
You could just make a one gallon test batch and try it to see if it will work for you.

Still, at approx. $3.20 per bottle, I am very happy with the results. 

FYI, I use double the fruit(two lbs. per gallon) on the blueberry, blackberry, and triple berry DB's to increase the flavor and body of the wine, and to help prevent it from tasting like jet fuel because I also make them to at least 14 - 15% abv.


----------



## bkisel

PoppaCork said:


> Bill, it was recommended to me to use 6 -10 lbs. per gallon for the mango wine, I only used 5 lbs. per gallon because I bought all they had left.
> I am not sure I would try it with much less, unless you want to back-sweeten with a mango concentrate.
> My understanding is that lighter color fruits tend to require more fruit to bring out the flavor. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about it will chime in...
> You could just make a one gallon test batch and try it to see if it will work for you.
> 
> Still, at approx. $3.20 per bottle, I am very happy with the results.
> 
> FYI, I use double the fruit(two lbs. per gallon) on the blueberry, blackberry, and triple berry DB's to increase the flavor and body of the wine, and to help prevent it from tasting like jet fuel because I also make them to at least 14 - 15% abv.



Thanks. So much yet to learn. Hadn't heard about lighter vs. darker fruits and bringing out flavor. It'd be neat to have an understanding of why that might be.

So maybe use less mango and aim for something like a a mist wine in the 8-10% abv range?


----------



## dangerdave

I have made a peach/mango DB version several times. A way to get past the lighter flavor is to use an extract. Natural peach and mango extracts/flavorings are readily available commercially. They can amp up the flavor without adding much additional cost.

That being said, I bet Gregs Mad Mango is awesome! Do you have a label for that stuff yet?


----------



## dangerdave

FYI: Day 5 of primary fermentation on the triple-sized Big Batch with one packet of EC-1118---*SG = 1.010*. Foamy cap has vanished. Fizzing quietly along, just like normal.


----------



## Johngottshall

Bottling this evening


----------



## StoneCreek

just got around to bottling my first batch of DB (quad berry blend) yesterday and I am very pleased with the results. It was ready to bottle about a month and a half ago but when i began to rack to a clean carboy after clearing I disturbed a bunch of the lees so i decided to let it sit awhile longer. I did taste it at that time and I didn't like it at all. tasted hot, little fruit flavor, and watery to me so i figured i did something wrong along the way so i wasn't in any hurry to bottle. Wow, what a difference a month and a half makes. I am very pleased with the results and gave away a couple of bottles this morning to some friends for their feedback. fingers crossed. justed pitched a WE california merlot yesteday and when the primary is free I look forward to starting another batch! Dave, I plan on PMing you for your addy so i can send you a bottle to try. I would love your feedback.


----------



## PoppaCork

dangerdave said:


> I have made a peach/mango DB version several times. A way to get past the lighter flavor is to use an extract. Natural peach and mango extracts/flavorings are readily available commercially. They can amp up the flavor without adding much additional cost.
> 
> That being said, I bet Gregs Mad Mango is awesome! Do you have a label for that stuff yet?
> 
> 
> 
> I only have a black & white laser printer but I did make a label for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of these days I'll get a color printer and some editing software.


----------



## bkisel

David, except for the quad vs tri berry blend did you stick to the DB recipe? How much sugar did you use for back sweetening?

Thanx...


----------



## bkisel

Greg, As the kids say today... "that's sick!"... [meaning its cool].


----------



## Johngottshall

I started my first batch of this on the 16th of Jan. Followed recipe except I used 9 lbs of fruit. To be honest I thought I messed it up because it tasted awful to much lemon not enough flavor. Well I have been sampling along the way it kept getting better. Tonight when I bottled it I said to myself I have to go back to Sam's club and get more fruit this is awesome. Here are some pics of it bottled.


----------



## Johngottshall

I hit the button to quick here are the pics


----------



## Rosa321

I just found frozen mango at Dollar tree yesterday. 
I plan on chipping away at the 30 lbs when and where I find it cheap.
I've got time to wait and my wallet won't feel it all at once.
Can't wait to try this one!


----------



## datcv

So I think I goofed on my batch of apple core berry wine-- it was perfectly clear when I bottled it but a month later and there is sediment at the bottom of the bottles.

I either forgot the preservatives/stabilizers (it's possible...) or I didn't add enough, maybe. I didn't add much sugar to back sweeten but it looks like it is fermenting.

What are my options here? Dump back into the carboy and let it settle out, and test the gravity? Add more sulfites?


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## dangerdave

Looks great, John. Yours is a testament for the DB recipe. Don't worry over the initial results. In a very short time, it will improve remarkably. Adding sugar also makes a big difference, even if it's just a small amount. Berries have a sweet side, so if you want it to taste like the fruit from which it is made, it needs some sugar.

Greg, I like the label, even in B&W. Monkey down! I repeat! Monkey down!

datcv: is that a DB version? Have you opened a bottle to see if it's carbonated?


----------



## bkisel

John, thanks for putting up the pics. Looks great! Like your labels.

Do you label and shrink cap all the wine that you bottle? I just do it to the bottles that leave the house.


----------



## datcv

dangerdave said:


> datcv: is that a DB version? Have you opened a bottle to see if it's carbonated?




It is DB with addition of several pounds of apple cores and other leftover fruit. I haven't checked carbonation but I actually did have a little extra that I put inside of a grolsch bottle so I will definitely check that. If it's not carbonated that just means I had additional fallout and I just need to filter and rebottle, right?



Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Johngottshall

bkisel said:


> John, thanks for putting up the pics. Looks great! Like your labels.
> 
> Do you label and shrink cap all the wine that you bottle? I just do it to the bottles that leave the house.



Yes I label all my bottles I get my labels where I get my supplies he has the labels and the program to customize what you want for .10 cents a label I can't print them for that cheap.


----------



## Rosa321

Thanks for all the personal testaments to the recipe, and the aging process. As a newbie, I am unsure of the recipe and if the desired outcome will be achieved. I guess I just need to have faith in the process! It sounds like everyone's wine turned out great with just a little aging!!!!.


----------



## dangerdave

datcv said:


> It is DB with addition of several pounds of apple cores and other leftover fruit. I haven't checked carbonation but I actually did have a little extra that I put inside of a grolsch bottle so I will definitely check that. If it's not carbonated that just means I had additional fallout and I just need to filter and rebottle, right?


 
A little sediment is not normally an issue with homemade wine. However, if it bothers you, you can unbottle, filter, and rebottle. I'd add a pinch of k-meta if you do that, as it will be exposed to additional O2.

I always filter mine before I bottle. Sediment in the bottles drives me nuts! But that's me.


----------



## bkisel

Johngottshall said:


> Yes I label all my bottles I get my labels where I get my supplies he has the labels and the program to customize what you want for .10 cents a label I can't print them for that cheap.



.10 cents for the label, 30 cents for the cork and $1.20 for the bottle. You've spent more on the hardware than the software! 






Joking aside, .10 cents a label sounds like a steal.


----------



## ckvchestnut

well my batch of db is now down to .990 I have been busy for the past 3 days and haven't paid much attention to it... I suppose I'll let it sit for a few more days to settle in the kitchen before racking it to the carboys. It's going to be good to have more DB around to drink, I have only kept 1 bottle from my last batch which I intend to keep until next year to see what it turns out like. I'll definitely try to keep a few more from this batch as this one isn't honking strong like my last one lol


----------



## jojabri

Yeast question:

I started a double batch of Strawberry DB last night with 16 pounds minus the icky bits that had to be cut off and the leaves.

I was about to start my yeast when I discovered I only have 1 packet of Lalvin EC-1118. I thought I had more oh well. Silly LHBS is out currently. Boo!

I need a low foaming yeast because there isn't a whole lot of head space in my primary.

I do have on hand at least 2 of each:
Red Star Cotes des Blancs
Red Star Pasteur Red
Red Star Pasteur Champagne
Red Star Premier Cuvee
Red Star Montrachet.

OG is 1.080, Which is suggested to use? I'm leaning most toward the Cotes des Blancs or Premier Cuvee (From what I understand from research, Premier Cuvee is most similar Lalvin EC-1118)


----------



## sour_grapes

Just use the one packet of EC-1118.


----------



## jojabri

sour_grapes said:


> Just use the one packet of EC-1118.



For a double batch (12 gallons)?


----------



## sour_grapes

Yes. Read the link.


----------



## jojabri

sour_grapes said:


> Yes. Read the link.



The link wasn't showing up originally for me. It just looked underlined weird right?

Good to know for future reference on double batches! 

Unfortunately, at about I went ahead and started re-hydrating the 2 pkts of Cotes des Blancs. Oh well. 'Tis what it is.

BTW this stuff smells DIVINE! The pectic has started breaking the strawberries nicely! This is my first try using FRESH fruit rather than frozen, and there is a big difference IMHO.

*crosses fingers*


----------



## dangerdave

Sounds great, Gina! I'm about to fire up a batch of the same. It's a summer favorate around here. I call it "Sweet Strawberry Tart"---even though it is a DB variation. I'm glad you got it going. the Cotes des Blancs will work fine.

Good luck, girl!


----------



## datcv

dangerdave said:


> A little sediment is not normally an issue with homemade wine. However, if it bothers you, you can unbottle, filter, and rebottle. I'd add a pinch of k-meta if you do that, as it will be exposed to additional O2.
> 
> I always filter mine before I bottle. Sediment in the bottles drives me nuts! But that's me.




I think it might be ok. I tasted some last night and it is not carbonated. The sediment doesn't quite look like yeast sediment but some semi translucent chunks that is probably pectin from the apple cores. It looked clear to me when I bottled it but it may not have been. I think my next batch is gonna be a by the book DB recipe.


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## Loxalibations

My Dragon Blood is in 3rd month, I did one final carboy reracking and back sweetened with grape concentrate. Everything is looking and tasting good. Next step is to prepare bottles and bottke it all. This carboy swith went from 5 gallon gladd and a few send 3L 'carboys' into a 6 gal better bottle, 1 1 gallon glass carboy and a couple of sample glassed. All transferred, set aside and cleaning up. After cleaning I look at the better bottle (plastic) and when I moved it to table the weight pushef up and the wine is touching that yucky rubber bung. YET anither "I hope I did not ruin it" moment. I siphoned some if the top and I believe Idetect a rubber after taste

r


----------



## bkisel

Just finished racking my first batch from primary bucket to carboy. Final SG 0.992 which gives me a calculated ABV of 10,76%. Had ~1.7L left over which I used to fill a 1.5 liter wine bottle. Have no idea why I saved this except maybe to see how long it takes to clear on its own.

Ref: Started Monday 02/24/2014

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds
Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%


----------



## TableSeven

So this is my first from scratch wine. I had to man up & taste it because a beer brewing friend asked if I did and the answer was no, I had tasted early on a kit and it scared me...so curiosity got the better of me and I tasted it.. OMG it was WONDERFUL.

I'm at 1.050 today, how much is this flavor going to change? How do I keep this or does this just keep getting better?


----------



## Rosa321

TableSeven said:


> So this is my first from scratch wine. I had to man up & taste it because a beer brewing friend asked if I did and the answer was no, I had tasted early on a kit and it scared me...so curiosity got the better of me and I tasted it.. OMG it was WONDERFUL.
> 
> I'm at 1.050 today, how much is this flavor going to change? How do I keep this or does this just keep getting better?



Did you follow the recipe exactly? 6lbs of fruit, lemon juice, etc?
In my experience, If you let it ferment to dry, the taste will change quite a bit. 
I'm told it changes as it ages. 

If you used more fruit up front, or acid blend instead of lemon juice, I'm told the final product can be different....


----------



## sour_grapes

bkisel said:


> Just finished racking my first batch from primary bucket to carboy.
> Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
> 
> Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%



Bkisel, we are very simpatico! I started my first DB batch on 2/21, and I _also_ racked it to the carboy today (and stabilized and degassed). I started at SG=1.082 and ended at 0.992 for 11.8%. I was AMAZED at how effective the SuperKleer was today. Went from totally cloudy to nearly clear in about 4 hours.


----------



## bkisel

sour_grapes said:


> Bkisel, we are very simpatico! I started my first DB batch on 2/21, and I _also_ racked it to the carboy today (and stabilized and degassed). I started at SG=1.082 and ended at 0.992 for 11.8%. I was AMAZED at how effective the SuperKleer was today. Went from totally cloudy to nearly clear in about 4 hours.



Glad to read your batch is moving right along. Mine will take awhile to clear. LHBS doesn't carry SuperKleer so I'm using Chitosan & Kieselsol. I've used the K&C in all the 8 kits I've done and everyone has cleared over the course of several days. My hope is that the C&K will be as effective as the SuperKleer you used, just take longer to do its stuff.

Good luck with your final results!


----------



## Enologo

bkisel said:


> Glad to read your batch is moving right along. Mine will take awhile to clear. LHBS doesn't carry SuperKleer so I'm using Chitosan & Kieselsol. I've used the K&C in all the 8 kits I've done and everyone has cleared over the course of several days. My hope is that the C&K will be as effective as the SuperKleer you used, just take longer to do its stuff.
> 
> Good luck with your final results!



If I'm not mistaken Super Clear is Chitosan & Kieselsol just packaged together.Should work the same.


----------



## FTC Wines

My 2 cents! Found & drank a bottle of Dragon Blood last night from 2011!! Still GOOD, not sure if it's better, can't remember that far back. But it was good. Roy


----------



## sour_grapes

bkisel said:


> Glad to read your batch is moving right along. Mine will take awhile to clear. LHBS doesn't carry SuperKleer so I'm using Chitosan & Kieselsol. I've used the K&C in all the 8 kits I've done and everyone has cleared over the course of several days. My hope is that the C&K will be as effective as the SuperKleer you used, just take longer to do its stuff.
> 
> Good luck with your final results!





Enologo said:


> If I'm not mistaken Super Clear is Chitosan & Kieselsol just packaged together.Should work the same.



Yup, I used Kieselol and Chitosan.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Paul, I am glad that your about. finished with your dragon blood. I hope you find it a great wine for those hot summers you have there.
If you decide you do not like it, I will gladly take it off your hands.......

Not checked for punctuation.
Not checked for spelling errors.
This is a comment, do not use for reference information.


----------



## bkisel

Enologo said:


> If I'm not mistaken Super Clear is Chitosan & Kieselsol just packaged together.Should work the same.



I do already see sediment at the bottom of the carboy but I wouldn't yet call the wine clear. Could it be that I switched up the steps by adding the sugar between stabilization and adding the clearing agents? I switched up Dave's steps because this is how I've done it with a number of my back sweetened kits and all have turned out just fine.


----------



## jamesngalveston

give it some time. you should be fine.


----------



## TableSeven

Rosa321 said:


> Did you follow the recipe exactly? 6lbs of fruit, lemon juice, etc?
> In my experience, If you let it ferment to dry, the taste will change quite a bit.
> I'm told it changes as it ages.
> 
> If you used more fruit up front, or acid blend instead of lemon juice, I'm told the final product can be different....



I used less lemon (the large bottles here are smaller) and 3 cups more sugar to get the SG to 1.075 at the beginning. 

My worry is if my one wine tasted horrible before it was finished but tasted great finished, but this one tastes great before it is finished will it stay good.. I should know, I've done enough tank tours lol but this is my baby.


----------



## jamesngalveston

after its degassed cleared stabilized it should be like all db....very good early drinker.....


----------



## wildvines

What housing filter is used for the DB. The pd 1 or 5


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## RotGut76

I've been working on a all blueberry version of DB. After racking to the secondary and back sweetening I wasn't really liking the flavor of it. I bulk aged it a bit. Still not happy. So I put a little sample in a mason jar and added a little oak to it. It greatly improved the flavor IMO. Tastes kind of port(ish). 

My problem is the small amount I have in the mason jar is carbonating. Its been sitting for about a week in a 1/2 filled 1 pint jar. Before I add oak to the entire batch is there anything I should know? Could it be carbonating or is it oxidizing because of the head space in the jar? It still tastes ok though.


----------



## sour_grapes

I have to ask the obvious: Did you use potassium sorbate before backsweetening?


----------



## bkisel

Question on degassing my DB...

Wine is now in a carboy and even though I've degassed using drill device I'm following up with a VacuVin. All the small bubbles are gone but I keep pulling up these larger bubbles right off the bottom out of the sediment. Should I keep pumping to bring up these larger bubbles or rack off the sediment now or stop pumping and wait a week or so before racking?

Thanx...


----------



## RotGut76

sour_grapes said:


> I have to ask the obvious: Did you use potassium sorbate before backsweetening?



I'm pretty sure I did. Would adding more have a negative effect?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Wine Making mobile app


----------



## wildvines

Just filtered and bottled my first batch. Hope it gets better. Looks clear


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

wildvines, that sure is looking nice.


----------



## Rosa321

TableSeven said:


> I used less lemon (the large bottles here are smaller) and 3 cups more sugar to get the SG to 1.075 at the beginning.
> 
> My worry is if my one wine tasted horrible before it was finished but tasted great finished, but this one tastes great before it is finished will it stay good.. I should know, I've done enough tank tours lol but this is my baby.



what did you do this time to make it so special? My gut tells me it can only get better from here


----------



## Rosa321

has anyone tried mad mango with peach or pineapple?
I'm just looking for an estimate on the amount of fruit you would use....
would it still be 30 pounds of mangoes and then 30 pounds of peaches or pineapple? or could you do 15 pounds of mangoes and 15 pounds of peaches or pineapple? anybody have experience with this?

my blueberry batch is not even done fermenting and I'm already contemplating my next batch hehe I love it!


----------



## jamesngalveston

bkisel, rack it off the lees and degass. if you are degassing with lees in the bottom it will never clear....'
I rack everytime I see 1/2 inch of lees are even less....and make sure that when you rack you have your hose hitting the side of the carboy....


----------



## jamesngalveston

mango, peach and pineapple are hard ones..
all three throw out tons and tons of lees, and you have to use a lot of fruit to get good flavor...I have done all three......for my 5 gallon of mango using fruit , I used 50 lbs of mangos, started out as 5 gallon , and after racking and clearing I ended up with about 3.5.
pineapple, I used 5 gallons of dole pineapple juice,
peach, I used 24 cans white grape peach concentrate....it is excellent.,


----------



## bkisel

jamesngalveston said:


> bkisel, rack it off the lees and degass. if you are degassing with lees in the bottom it will never clear....'
> I rack everytime I see 1/2 inch of lees are even less....and make sure that when you rack you have your hose hitting the side of the carboy....



James, Went dry in primary bucket. Racked off the *gross lees* Sunday, two days ago, into a carboy. Added stab and clearing agents Sunday. Did drill stir degassing Sunday then VacuVin degassing. Big bubbles are coming right off the bottom where I now have sediment from clearing. All small bubbles finished yesterday. Now only big bubbles. Guess what I really need to know is what are these big bubbles vs. the smaller bubbles that I understand to be CO2. [I know this little bubbles vs. big bubbles has been covered a number of times but I could not find a consistent authoritative answer/explanation.]

There is now plenty of sediment from clearing so I've decided to rack to a clean carboy and let sit about 2 weeks and then rack again for a little bulk aging.

Thanx...


----------



## dangerdave

Just for reference, my triple batch with one packet of yeast (EC-1118) has gone dry...SG = 0.995. Right on schedule. Do with that info what you will. I'm racking, degassing, stabilizing, and clearing today, before I head out of town for the rest of the week.

I'll catch up with you all next weekend. Good wining!


----------



## jamesngalveston

the smaller bubbles may be co2, the bigger is from swirling from the drill, I think. rack when you have 1/2 of lees.


----------



## ckvchestnut

FTC Wines said:


> My 2 cents! Found & drank a bottle of Dragon Blood last night from 2011!! Still GOOD, not sure if it's better, can't remember that far back. But it was good. Roy




That's good to know! Thanks for sharing!


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

dangerdave said:


> Just for reference, my triple batch with one packet of yeast (EC-1118) has gone dry...SG = 0.995. Right on schedule. Do with that info what you will. I'm racking, degassing, stabilizing, and clearing today, before I head out of town for the rest of the week.
> 
> I'll catch up with you all next weekend. Good wining!




Great news! Good to know that we could make significantly larger batches of DB with only 1pkg of EC-1118. My batch was just racked to carboys it's just shy of 10 gals and it was started with a few tablespoons of juice with EC-1118 in it from my Liebfraumilch. Fermented to .990... It's clearing now.


Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

Noooooooooooo.... it says on the yeast package...only use for 5 gallons are less.. and a company would not say that if it wasn't true.
Just like the internet... bonjourrrrrrrrrr, he is a French model.
lol


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> Just for reference, my triple batch with one packet of yeast (EC-1118) has gone dry...SG = 0.995. Right on schedule. Do with that info what you will. I'm racking, degassing, stabilizing, and clearing today, before I head out of town for the rest of the week.
> 
> I'll catch up with you all next weekend. Good wining!



Hope you have a safe trip David...


----------



## ckvchestnut

That's just to Cover their asses no? Because they can't guarantee you can ferment more than 5... 

I do have a quick question does the wine clear on its own after all the c02 is out only? Or does it begin to clear when it's still gassy? Asking because I haven't added any clearing agent yet but both carboys are clearing on their own. As well, I have two whites going right now that have been slowly fermenting for about a month. They are still slightly bubbly but almost clear?


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

Maybe I should say pretty clear for the whites! 


Carolyn


----------



## bkisel

bkisel said:


> James, Went dry in primary bucket. Racked off the *gross lees* Sunday, two days ago, into a carboy. Added stab and clearing agents Sunday. Did drill stir degassing Sunday then VacuVin degassing. Big bubbles are coming right off the bottom where I now have sediment from clearing. All small bubbles finished yesterday. Now only big bubbles. Guess what I really need to know is what are these big bubbles vs. the smaller bubbles that I understand to be CO2. [I know this little bubbles vs. big bubbles has been covered a number of times but I could not find a consistent authoritative answer/explanation.]
> 
> There is now plenty of sediment from clearing so I've decided to rack to a clean carboy and let sit about 2 weeks and then rack again for a little bulk aging.
> 
> Thanx...



Okay, just finished cleaning up from racking glass carboy to Bubbler small mouth carboy and moved from kitchen to basement.

Got a little taste and am I impressed? YES! I'm really surprised how good it tastes so early in the making. Tasted a hint of strawberry on the front end and a bit of alcohol on the back end [Does that make me sound like a wine conosuer?]. This is DB with the quad-berry blend because I couldn't find the tri-berry blend. 

Started Monday 02/24/2014

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds
Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%
Day 16 (Tuesday) Racked to Bubbler from glass carboy to get off of clearing sediment. Wine looks pretty clear but will probably drop a bit more sediment. Tasted good even at this early stage.


----------



## jamesngalveston

any wine will clear on its own. just takes time...
it will clear slowly if there is co2 present. the more you rack the less lees, and less co2, the faster it will clear. my observation. info not to be used as reference, my opinon only. 
not supported by any info on wine making


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks James... I knew it would clear on its own just wasn't sure of it would start while there was still a significant amount of c02 present. I haven't trie degassing the DB yet. Will try today and see how much bubbles I get. I won't be degassing the whites as they are pretty clear and almost dry now. .994 and .992 but still small bubbles.


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

I think last batch of DB I let it clear for a week and it dropped a fair amt, racked and degassed and let vest for another week or 10 days.


Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

did you get one of steves aio system, using a drill. how do you degass


----------



## ckvchestnut

I'm using a drill... Will be getting an aio likely with my tax return! Not sure if I could wait til my birthday in August... It going to cost me a pretty penny though with the currency exchange, shipping plus import charges :|

Currently camped out on a chair with my phone in one hand and drilling with the other - ugh! Wish I had 3 hands - one for a drink also! I never quite know when it's completely finished either. After I'm tired of degassing I usually let it sit for a few days and check it with the drill again... If no foam I'm happy...


Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

how much with the currency exchange. I can get one and get to fargo for u. u will have to schedule a pickup when my driver is there, if it will help.


----------



## Runningwolf

James is correct about clearing after the C02 is gone. Be careful how often you rack though. Every time you remove the bung, rack or degas you are introducing oxygen which contributes to oxidation. Ensure your S02 (meta) levels are up to help protect against this.


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> how much with the currency exchange. I can get one and get to fargo for u. u will have to schedule a pickup when my driver is there, if it will help.




Thanks James! Fargo? Is that near TX? I'm in Canada?


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

Runningwolf said:


> James is correct about clearing after the C02 is gone. Be careful how often you rack though. Every time you remove the bung, rack or degas you are introducing oxygen which contributes to oxidation. Ensure your S02 (meta) levels are up to help protect against this.




Thanks Dan! Ya I understand that. I do pretty much 2-3 rackings with DB or similar and make sure I have my kmeta there. I only do one application if racking more than once within a 3 week period. Will get one of those fancy s02 testers one day 


Carolyn


----------



## sour_grapes

Umm, let me try to provide translation.  I think James confused you with some of your Plains compatriots. Fargo is in ND, not far from some of our other Canadian posters. However, it turns out that both Canada and the US are large countries! (#2 and #3!!)

Carolyn is in northern Ontario, which is about a 21 hour drive from Fargo. James, of your normal drop-off spots, I think that *I* might happen to be the closest to Carolyn. However, it is still a 14-hour drive from Milwaukee to Renfrew.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Oooh! That is far lol! Far away from everything - sucks! Lol


Carolyn


----------



## wildvines

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----------



## Rosa321

Looks Awesome!!!


----------



## Rosa321

jamesngalveston said:


> mango, peach and pineapple are hard ones..
> all three throw out tons and tons of lees, and you have to use a lot of fruit to get good flavor...I have done all three......for my 5 gallon of mango using fruit , I used 50 lbs of mangos, started out as 5 gallon , and after racking and clearing I ended up with about 3.5.
> pineapple, I used 5 gallons of dole pineapple juice,
> peach, I used 24 cans white grape peach concentrate....it is excellent.,



Thanks, James!! Your advice is much appreciated 
I think I might be on a fruit collecting mission before this next batch.....
I'll see what I can come up with. I have 19+lbs of Mangos so far hehe
At the very least, I'd be using PapaCork's 30lbs.....

My JetBlue hit dry tonight (0.994) so I took out the fruit. I will wait a few days, keep checking and make sure the SG has stabilized. Then I'll rack it, degass it, and stabilize it. Carolyn, I'll send pics when it's in the glass carboy and when it's bottled. Right now it has an incredibly GROSS purple foam on the top of the bucket. lol 

Good news is, it tastes like alcohol and lemon juice. And my first batch of DB tasted sort of similar. Just a few weeks later, the triple berry DB is doing MUCH MUCH better!!!


----------



## sour_grapes

Carlos: I love the "San Jorge" reference! Great job.


----------



## wildvines

Thx guys!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## jamesngalveston

Carolyn, I got you confused with rayway. Sorry


----------



## bkisel

Carlos, your wine looks great! Very nice presentation with the label and shrink cap.


----------



## wildvines

bkisel said:


> Carlos, your wine looks great! Very nice presentation with the label and shrink cap.




Thanks! Now going to wait the 3 months lol. Try to at least. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

wildvines said:


> Thanks! Now going to wait the 3 months lol. Try to at least.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



From what I've read here Dragon Blood is considered an "early drinker". Maybe a couple of weeks to a month is all the bottle aging needed?

Once bottled I'm not going to wait too long before trying a bottle. My hope is that I'll like it (mine tasted good on day 16!) and then will start a second batch.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Wow nice labels wildvines! Rosa... Looking forward to seeing your stuff too 


Carolyn


----------



## bakervinyard

Just back sweetened my first batch of D.B. I brought it up to 1.012 with simple syrup. I tasted the wine and to me it has a slight "cough syrup" flavor. Is this the norma taste in the beginning? It has good color, and ABV is about 10.4%. I'm going to leave it alone for a few days and come back and taste again. Thoughs anyone? Thanks, Bakervinyard


----------



## bkisel

bakervinyard said:


> Just back sweetened my first batch of D.B. I brought it up to 1.012 with simple syrup. I tasted the wine and to me it has a slight "cough syrup" flavor. Is this the norma taste in the beginning? It has good color, and ABV is about 10.4%. I'm going to leave it alone for a few days and come back and taste again. Thoughs anyone? Thanks, Bakervinyard



I think I've read several times on this thread where - these are my words - the first taste of DB was nothing to write home about but then turned around with just several weeks aging. I hope this is what you find out.


----------



## ckvchestnut

bakervinyard said:


> Just back sweetened my first batch of D.B. I brought it up to 1.012 with simple syrup. I tasted the wine and to me it has a slight "cough syrup" flavor. Is this the norma taste in the beginning? It has good color, and ABV is about 10.4%. I'm going to leave it alone for a few days and come back and taste again. Thoughs anyone? Thanks, Bakervinyard



Perhaps it's too sweet? I really prefer my stuff drier and don't find a cough syrup taste with mine. The sweetest I've had it was 1.010 and that was way too sweet for me. I like mine between 1.000 and 1.002 but that's just my own tastes. With the flavor profile of this wine, time in the bottle should bring the fruit taste back and maybe soften that cough syrup taste. Check it in a month, and then 2 and 3 etc.


----------



## Julie

I agree with Carolyn, it maybe too sweet. And try adding a pinch of acid blend and see what that does.


----------



## Simpsini

Hey guys - I’ve made my first batch of DB. It was a 3 gal batch, so I halved the recipe. -I started it on 25 Jan following the directions that Dave gave. On 12 Feb I added 1 ½ cups of simple syrup (2 parts sugar to 1 part water). On 20 Feb I did a final rack. The wine had a very lemony taste then. I tried some today and it really didn’t have too much taste. The lemony taste has subsided. Will it get better? I haven’t bottled it yet, but will probably bottle this week. What kind of taste should I be looking for? Any thoughts?


----------



## wildvines

I just bottled mine. My alcohol content close to 13%. Fruit smell but strong kick. Will give it time for the sweetness to come out. Only put 4 cups of sugar


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bakervinyard

Thanks everyone for the quick feedback. I'm going to let it bulk age for a month then try it again. I do have 750ml. over that I may try working with. Thanks again, Bakervinyard


----------



## jojabri

OH-MAH-JEEZY! Thank you Jamesngalveston and Danger Dave for encouraging me to do a Blackberry DB! I bottled 3 Gallons last night and it is friggin' EPIC!

Now I'm really sad the other half of the batch flopped on me. Oh well, guess I can always take another trip on the Merry-Go-Round.


----------



## ckvchestnut

How much fruit did you use Jojabri? Can't remember now...


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

bakervinyard said:


> Thanks everyone for the quick feedback. I'm going to let it bulk age for a month then try it again. I do have 750ml. over that I may try working with. Thanks again, Bakervinyard




Let us know if u have positive changes!


Carolyn


----------



## kXb

I need help ASAP! I pitched my yeast two days ago and gravity is down to 1.042 (from og of 1.068). Everything is going as planned right now but starting Friday it won't get stirred for two days. I can pick up again on Sunday. Fermenting at room temp (~72F) right now. My only thought is to slow it down a bit by decreasing fermenting temp OR not worry about the stirring for two days.

THOUGHTS???

Thanks in advance!


----------



## sour_grapes

Enjoy your weekend! Don't worry 'bout stirring. Don't worry, be happy!


----------



## StoneCreek

bkisel said:


> David, except for the quad vs tri berry blend did you stick to the DB recipe? How much sugar did you use for back sweetening?
> 
> Thanx...



Pretty much. I only used 32oz of lemon juice since its the largest size my wally world carries and I added 12oz of raisins to the fruit bag in the primary. Way back in this thread or the other one, Dave said he added raisins for added body and I enjoy full body wines, so I gave it a shot. Next batch I'll still add the raisins and probably a whole banana or two. I back sweetened right before bottling with a simple syrup using 4 cups of sugar. I added some syrup tasted, added some more, tasted, added some more, tasted. liked the result, drank a glass then drank another during my bottling session. During lunch I called the wife and told her how excited I was. lol I started the tasting and bottling around 10 am! It's good stuff. I'm sure you'll love yours Bill. BTW, my abv is just under 13%.


----------



## jojabri

ckvchestnut said:


> How much fruit did you use Jojabri? Can't remember now...
> 
> 
> Carolyn



I think it was 8LB


----------



## jamesngalveston

as the guy with the mean grape avatar said....dont worry bout stirring.....you will be fine....


----------



## ckvchestnut

jojabri said:


> I think it was 8LB




Per gallon or the whole batch?


Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

use 4 lbs per gallon on a straight blackberry.....let sit on the pectin for a day before you start adding sugar for your sg.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Thanks James... I'm going to try it for sure. I'm going to see if my costco has straight frozen blackberries... What about the lemon amount? I would think if the blackberries if tart would not need as much lemon?


Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

correct, i use just 16 ounces of lemon juice on my blackberry.....
also....if you start it at 1.130 and let finnish in the primary, you will not have to add sorbate, backsweeten, are flavor..and should be at the right abv you like, should be around 12.5 abv depending on the yeast you use.....


----------



## ckvchestnut

16 oz of lemon for a 6 gal batch right? I think the lowest tolerance yeast I have in the fridge is 1122... I may have to get another kind? Let me check!


Carolyn


----------



## ckvchestnut

71B-1122 tolerance is 14% I could live with that it's a bit high... But not too bad


Carolyn


----------



## jamesngalveston

it probably would not finish at 14.


----------



## Pumpkinman

Carolyn, I agree, unfortunately fruit wines do not benefit from high abv%, it seems to almost strip the flavor, and obviously you'll have to age it longer so it doesn't taste like rocket fuel. 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Wine Making mobile app


----------



## ckvchestnut

My blueberry/peach port finished over the 18% abv and alcohol tolerance level for that yeast type - k1v1116 so you just never know? I think those are just guidelines for the yeast alcohol tolerance levels.

On the other hand honestly I didn't end up with tasteless rocket fuel on that batch nor on a DB batch that I accidentally brought up to 1.120. Had a bottle of that 16% abv stuff last night very fruity. So I'm on the fence about the high abv ruining fruit wines all the time. Yes I'm sure it happens all the time but not to me yet. Lol 

So far from a port making perspective it has been fine for me as long as it doesn't go dry? My DB didn't either, it stopped at 1.010... But didn't spend much time in the bottle and didn't have a referment at the 16% abv level.




Carolyn


----------



## jojabri

ckvchestnut said:


> Per gallon or the whole batch?
> 
> 
> Carolyn



I used 8 for the whole batch.


----------



## Rosa321

Just reading some posts about alcohol by volume and fruit wines...........
I had an old DB recipe (somehow I found an old one....don't ask me HOW!) and it said to get closer to 1.085 - 1.090
to start. So I did!
And now my jet blue will have an abv around 13.4%. Is that high for a fruit wine?
Should I try adding an f-pack/extract to lower the alcohol level?
I don't mind waiting for it to age, but I'd really like the fruit flavor to come through........


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hi Rosa, in my own experience I have not had any issues with fruit flavor at that abv level. Some others might have different experiences to share.


----------



## bkisel

Just back from a shopping trip with my wife at Costco's. Went to check out what they had for frozen berry blends. WOW, was I impressed. The had mixed berry blends and fruit blends in 3, 4 and 6 pound bags. There was one six-blend that included, I believe, cherries and cranberries.There were frozen bags of by themselves blueberry, strawberry, pineapple chunks and a few others I can't remember. Some of the stuff was marked as being organically grown which seemed important to my wife. Very impressive variety of potential stuff for making DB variations. All seemed to me seasonably priced.

Also, checked the price on sugar... If I'm not mistaken a 5 pound bag at Costco was about two dollars less than 5 pounds at Super Stop and Shop.

Spending the time I did in the food section with my wife started to make me feel faint. Thankfully I was able to make my way to the other side of the store to bring myself back to normal by smelling the tires.




Food and clothing shopping is definitely not my thing.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

Rosa321 said:


> Just reading some posts about alcohol by volume and fruit wines...........
> I had an old DB recipe (somehow I found an old one....don't ask me HOW!) and it said to get closer to 1.085 - 1.090
> to start. So I did!
> And now my jet blue will have an abv around 13.4%. Is that high for a fruit wine?
> Should I try adding an f-pack/extract to lower the alcohol level?
> I don't mind waiting for it to age, but I'd really like the fruit flavor to come through........



I would wait and see. My 2 cents on the blueberry is that it may take a touch longer than other DB's. I recently started a straight blueberry on 3/2 starting at 1.084. This took longer to ferment dry than any of the other DB's I've made, but it did get to 0.992 and when I tasted it I didn't have quite the blueberry flavor, so I am going to just let it sit for a while. A quad berry I made is 13.3%, I did have to back sweeten a little, but I still taste all the berries!


----------



## ckvchestnut

bkisel said:


> Just back from a shopping trip with my wife at Costco's. Went to check out what they had for frozen berry blends. WOW, was I impressed. The had mixed berry blends and fruit blends in 3, 4 and 6 pound bags. There was one six-blend that included, I believe, cherries and cranberries.There were frozen bags of by themselves blueberry, strawberry, pineapple chunks and a few others I can't remember. Some of the stuff was marked as being organically grown which seemed important to my wife. Very impressive variety of potential stuff for making DB variations. All seemed to me seasonably priced.
> 
> Also, checked the price on sugar... If I'm not mistaken a 5 pound bag at Costco was about two dollars less than 5 pounds at Super Stop and Shop.
> 
> Spending the time I did in the food section with my wife started to make me feel faint. Thankfully I was able to make my way to the other side of the store to bring myself back to normal by smelling the tires.
> 
> 
> 
> Food and clothing shopping is definitely not my thing.



Haha, shopping not your thing huh? Lol Did you see straight blackberries? I'll be making my way over there on Monday or Tuesday it's an hour's drive for me. My husband told me though that he just picked up a 20Kg bag of sugar for $14 that's cdn though. But that's good here I think. Walmart charges $2.49/2Kgs unless it goes on sale.


----------



## jojabri

I don't have a Costco or Sam's membership. We do Have a GFS (Gordon Food Service) close which doesn't require a membership. They have sugar 25LB for $11.99 USD and frozen quad-berry blend 5LB for $14.49. I think both are very reasonable prices. This explains why I make so quadberry DB.

Meijers once again has strawberries $1/LB. I am SOOOOOO Tempted!


----------



## jamesngalveston

i agree with the wisdom of the white weasel....13.5 abv does not take away any of the fruit flavor in my wine...Maybe its just a tastebud thing.
Not for refrence.
Not advising.
Just saying.I make my wine two ways....either a high abv like 14 percent.
I also like to start out at 1.130 and use a yeast that lets me finish the wine with out adding sugar are flavor pack at the end.
I prefer the latter....no sorbate then....


----------



## ckvchestnut

Good price for strawberries! If you have enough freezer space you could buy them and freeze til you're ready to start a batch!


----------



## ckvchestnut

I somehow feel a sense of relief!!


----------



## jamesngalveston

That is so weird...how come they just dont sale it in 50 lbs...lol
i hate metric,,,even though it is more accurate, 1/3 of the uss cant even do simple math, god knows what would happen if we went metric.

1 out of three can not read a tape measure in 16ths.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ahhhh... But there's an app for that! Here's a screenshot of a good conversion tool I have - here I plugged in 20kgs


----------



## ckvchestnut

So I got just over 44lbs of sugar for $14.55


----------



## bkisel

jamesngalveston said:


> That is so weird...how come they just dont sale it in 50 lbs...lol
> i hate metric,,,even though it is more accurate, 1/3 of the uss cant even do simple math, god knows what would happen if we went metric.
> 
> 1 out of three can not read a tape measure in 16ths.



Getting into this wine making hobby is helping me get a feel for metric volume measurements. You know, 750ML and 1.5L bottles, a 23L batch and such.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Honestly I just wish that gallons were an even 4 liters!!


----------



## jojabri

ckvchestnut said:


> So I got just over 44lbs of sugar for $14.55



Excellent deal! I'm jealous!


----------



## sour_grapes

jamesngalveston said:


> i hate metric,,,even though it is more accurate, 1/3 of the uss cant even do simple math, god knows what would happen if we went metric.




But that is the POINT of metric -- you only have to do very simple math!




> 1 out of three can not read a tape measure in 16ths.



Hmm, 1 out of 3 cannot read tape measure you say? Isn't that close to 21/64?


----------



## Rosa321

lol good discussion! As a science teacher, these are the conversations I have with students all the time! haha

Quick question.... Tonight I racked, degassed, and stabilized my jet blue. When I added the second packet of the'super kleer'....... I dissolved it in warm water, and added it like it said. Only last time it all fell to the bottom right away. This time, I have lots of spongy floaters! This is only my second DB ever, and my first Jet Blue. Is something wrong, is this normal? Will the crud fall to the bottom?


----------



## barbl72

Hubby drinks bourbon not wine. Do you think I could use his big bourbon bottles with screw on lids to store the DB? I drink it fast enough... thoughts anyone?


----------



## China-Clipper

*First batch bottled!*

Well, bottled my first batch of DB last week. Made some labels tonight and opened a bottle. Not bad at all! My wife loves it; I back-sweetened with 3/4 cup of sugar/gallon like Dave does. I'm already going out to get more berries for the next batch. My wife and I like the Moon, and have several weathervanes and decorations around our yard so we made up the whole La Luna Winery thing; I'm trying to make my wines include the word "moon" somewhere in the name. But....it's still Dragon Blood!


----------



## jamesngalveston

very nice china clipper...true db color for sure.


----------



## Fordguy

barbl72 said:


> Hubby drinks bourbon not wine. Do you think I could use his big bourbon bottles with screw on lids to store the DB? I drink it fast enough... thoughts anyone?




I think you would be fine with that. I bottle mine in mason jars and have never had an issue. But we go through it pretty fast as well.
If you want to store some back for a good while you may want to bottle it in wine bottles.

Others are much more knowledgable than I am, but that is my 2 cents.


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## Lornahdune

Oh how I love the smell of YEAST in the morning! And when I put my ear down I can hear it hissing and popping....all is well.

I am making my first dragon blood - I followed Dave's recipe exactly except for two things. I added about a 1/2 cup of raisins, and I did not have any yeast energizer on hand. Will the missing energizer change anything? Or will it just slow down the ferment?


----------



## jamesngalveston

if it slows down on like day 3, and a 1/2 dose of yeast nutrient...
look into using something like superferment, as i do..all in one nutrient for you wine. no energizer needed.


----------



## jamesngalveston

sorry bout that, add 1/2 dose, not and


----------



## Lornahdune

Thanks James, I'll keep an eye on it. 
-l


----------



## bkisel

China-Clipper said:


> Well, bottled my first batch of DB last week. Made some labels tonight and opened a bottle. Not bad at all! My wife loves it; I back-sweetened with 3/4 cup of sugar/gallon like Dave does. I'm already going out to get more berries for the next batch. My wife and I like the Moon, and have several weathervanes and decorations around our yard so we made up the whole La Luna Winery thing; I'm trying to make my wines include the word "moon" somewhere in the name. But....it's still Dragon Blood!



Nice looking wine. Nice label. 

I see from your label that you're a fellow Nutmegger. There's a bunch of us here; are we about to take over this forum?


----------



## China-Clipper

bkisel said:


> Nice looking wine. Nice label.
> 
> I see from your label that you're a fellow Nutmegger. There's a bunch of us here; are we about to take over this forum?



LOL. I guess with the lousy weather we've been getting here, we may as well stay hunkered down all winter and make wine!


----------



## jamesngalveston

I do not mean to hijack this thread at all...but I am curious about something.Forgive me Dave.
Since so many are up north...What do you pay for a Live lobster up there.


----------



## sour_grapes

jamesngalveston said:


> I do not mean to hijack this thread at all...but I am curious about something.Forgive me Dave.
> Since so many are up north...What do you pay for a Live lobster up there.



About $14 for a 1 to 1.25 pounder.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I posted this question here.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f19/lobster-pound-where-you-44185/#post499355

Not to hijack daves, db thread...thanks.


----------



## Rosa321

So.... Any thoughts on what I can do if these floaters don't become sinkers? ;-) 
Do you think maybe it needs pectic enzyme to break it down? Another dose of super kleer? Bentonite?

Just concerned..... I don't know what the problem is :-( 
Thanks!!!


----------



## Johngottshall

These floaters if they are what I think it is are pretty big in size?? I had them in my apple wine they will fall out. But they get suspended easily when carboy is moved I refiltered and got rid of it.


----------



## Rosa321

Johngottshall said:


> These floaters if they are what I think it is are pretty big in size?? I had them in my apple wine they will fall out. But they get suspended easily when carboy is moved I refiltered and got rid of it.



Yes! They are big and spongy/foamy looking. Sound about right?
I am hoping they fall. I don't have filtering equipment, so I'll just have to be careful.
Wonder what it's from....


----------



## jamesngalveston

Rosa, can you post a pic of it.


----------



## jamesngalveston

also, is it brown are whitish


----------



## ckvchestnut

jojabri said:


> Excellent deal! I'm jealous!




Well I'm jealous of your strawberries so there lol


----------



## ckvchestnut

jamesngalveston said:


> I do not mean to hijack this thread at all...but I am curious about something.Forgive me Dave.
> Since so many are up north...What do you pay for a Live lobster up there.




Average is $11.99/lb but sometimes it goes on sale for cheaper I'm afraid to ask what retail is down there?


----------



## Droc

Rosa321 said:


> Yes! They are big and spongy/foamy looking. Sound about right?
> 
> I am hoping they fall. I don't have filtering equipment, so I'll just have to be careful.
> 
> Wonder what it's from....




I had this problem in my apple cyser I made. I just took a strainer bag and put it over the tip of my racking cane and it kept all the big chunks out. I don't have filter either. This works well though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Trouty56

Joined the fun....my results after 15 days....I left the fruit in loose.....used a jelly bag at first racking.....then followed the steps DD laid out......

Also filled a case of 16oz beer bottles for cooler fillers....thanks for the great recipe.....


----------



## bkisel

Trouty56 said:


> Joined the fun....my results after 15 days....I left the fruit in loose.....used a jelly bag at first racking.....then followed the steps DD laid out......
> 
> Also filled a case of 16oz beer bottles for cooler fillers....thanks for the great recipe.....



Nice and welcome to the forum!


----------



## Rosa321

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

James......I would not say they are brown or white....they seem to be purple/jet blue colored! hahaha
It looks almost like blueberry insides.....but there wasn't any fruit pulp when I added the super kleer. It's like the 2nd step of Super Kleer had some reaction with something in the wine......Wonder why?!?!?!
Would Pectin hurt the flavor of the finished wine if I tried to see if it would break it down?
I guess I could work around it....hopefully. And maybe they will eventually fall. But 24hrs later, and they haven't budged.


----------



## sour_grapes

I racked the cleared DB for my first-ever batch, then did some trials on backsweetening. For my 6-gallon batch, I added 2 cups of sugar. We actually liked this pretty well, but I then did some bench-testing. I made up the equivalent of 2 cups, 3 cups, 4 cups, 5 cups, and 6 cups. We liked 4 and 5 the best, so I split the difference, and made it 4.5 cups. Hey! Just like Danger Dave! Whaddya know? 

I needed the carboy, so I went ahead and bottled it. Hopefully no bombs!


----------



## ckvchestnut

From what I know pectic enzymes shouldn't hurt your batch at all


----------



## ckvchestnut

sour_grapes said:


> I racked the cleared DB for my first-ever batch, then did some trials on backsweetening. For my 6-gallon batch, I added 2 cups of sugar. We actually liked this pretty well, but I then did some bench-testing. I made up the equivalent of 2 cups, 3 cups, 4 cups, 5 cups, and 6 cups. We liked 4 and 5 the best, so I split the difference, and made it 4.5 cups. Hey! Just like Danger Dave! Whaddya know?
> 
> I needed the carboy, so I went ahead and bottled it. Hopefully no bombs!




Haha! No bombs! You'll drink it too fast lol


----------



## jamesngalveston

rosa, i have no idea what that is are what it is from...feel the carboy to the neck and use a wine baster to draw it off...


----------



## Rosa321

jamesngalveston said:


> rosa, i have no idea what that is are what it is from...feel the carboy to the neck and use a wine baster to draw it off...



Thanks, James....... I must have done something wrong............. or just figured out a crazy chemical reaction.......or had dumb luck!!!

I have extra wine. I will suck up that crud and fill it up tomorrow. I was waiting to see if somebody knew what it was. The extra space makes it a little easier to add something and stir......


----------



## bkisel

sour_grapes said:


> I racked the cleared DB for my first-ever batch, then did some trials on backsweetening. For my 6-gallon batch, I added 2 cups of sugar. We actually liked this pretty well, but I then did some bench-testing. I made up the equivalent of 2 cups, 3 cups, 4 cups, 5 cups, and 6 cups. We liked 4 and 5 the best, so I split the difference, and made it 4.5 cups. Hey! Just like Danger Dave! Whaddya know?
> 
> I needed the carboy, so I went ahead and bottled it. Hopefully no bombs!



That 4.5 seems to be the magic number. At least I hope so because that is what I used to back sweeten between stabilizing and clearing.

Though we started our batches, I think, within a day or so of each other you're now ahead of me. I'm thinking about racking to a clean carboy this Monday, sit for two weeks, bottle and wait two weeks before trying a full glass. If I indeed do rack this Monday I'll take a little taste, I'm excited about that.

About how long are you thinking to age in the bottle before opening one?


----------



## jamesngalveston

3 to 4 weeks is what i try for......i have so much bottled i could wait forever.
i start giving away are drinking after the 3 are 4 weeks.


----------



## Julie

Rosa321 said:


> lol good discussion! As a science teacher, these are the conversations I have with students all the time! haha
> 
> Quick question.... Tonight I racked, degassed, and stabilized my jet blue. When I added the second packet of the'super kleer'....... I dissolved it in warm water, and added it like it said. Only last time it all fell to the bottom right away. This time, I have lots of spongy floaters! This is only my second DB ever, and my first Jet Blue. Is something wrong, is this normal? Will the crud fall to the bottom?



Rosa, you should give superklear a couple of weeks to work. Sometimes it works within a couple of days and sometimes not.

In the future if you have a problem, take a pic and post it in a new thread. I think you will get a whole lot of people helping you then.


----------



## sour_grapes

bkisel said:


> That 4.5 seems to be the magic number. At least I hope so because that is what I used to back sweeten between stabilizing and clearing.
> 
> Though we started our batches, I think, within a day or so of each other you're now ahead of me. I'm thinking about racking to a clean carboy this Monday, sit for two weeks, bottle and wait two weeks before trying a full glass. If I indeed do rack this Monday I'll take a little taste, I'm excited about that.
> 
> About how long are you thinking to age in the bottle before opening one?



I am ahead of you only because I rushed the bottling! DD's directions have one waiting an extra week at this step. However, I have a CC kit in primary that needs to come out today!

I intend to wait one month before trying it. I am mostly planning to consume it this summer, though.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I do agree with Julie, give super kleer at least 2 weeks....even though it may clear in a few days, if you use sorbate it will drop out as a real fine brown film, and it will take 2 weeks to do so.


----------



## Rosa321

Julie said:


> Rosa, you should give superklear a couple of weeks to work. Sometimes it works within a couple of days and sometimes not.
> 
> In the future if you have a problem, take a pic and post it in a new thread. I think you will get a whole lot of people helping you then.



Thanks, Julie!!!
I guess I was spoiled last time, because it worked right before eyes and BAM! It was clear! 

I will have to muster my patience and let it set a while. No need to rush it. I have another carboy I can play around with in the mean time!

And thanks for the tip.....I'll start a newbie thread the next time I hit something curious. Which I'm sure won't be too far down the road!


----------



## barbl72

Help please! I pulled out my carboy of DB today to rack and back sweeten - it's been clearing for a week. But it's still fermenting and smells yeasty. Now what do I do?


----------



## Rosa321

barbl72 said:


> Help please! I pulled out my carboy of DB today to rack and back sweeten - it's been clearing for a week. But it's still fermenting and smells yeasty. Now what do I do?



Somebody wiser will be along soon, I'm sure.... It might not even be an "issue"! 
But what was your SG when you put it in the carboy?
Are you SURE You remembered the Kmeta and Ksorbate???


In the mean time, my best advice is to just STAY CALM and DRINK ON! 
I am having issues in my latest (2nd) batch. It's hard to be patient. I want it fixed NOW lol. But a lot of people on here wait 1 year or more before ever even bottling. I hope I work up that kind of tolerance! hahaha


----------



## Julie

barbl72, as stated above what is your hydrometer reading and what was it when you started.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/members/barbl72


----------



## jamesngalveston

helps to have more info.
starting sg
current sg
did you add clearing agent
did you degass
did you add sorbate and kmeta/campden
lots will help with that info.


----------



## barbl72

jamesngalveston said:


> helps to have more info.
> starting sg
> current sg
> did you add clearing agent
> did you degass
> did you add sorbate and kmeta/campden
> lots will help with that info.



Starting SG 1.75
Current SG .990
Degassed and added Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate and superkleer last Monday per instructions.

this is my third batch of DB and never had problems in the other two.
This batch was 9 lbs of triple berry and 2 bananas. the others were 6 lbs of berries no bananas...


----------



## jamesngalveston

what makes you thing its still fermenting....try degassing a gain.
how did you degass, drill, vaccum.


----------



## barbl72

jamesngalveston said:


> what makes you thing its still fermenting....try degassing a gain.
> how did you degass, drill, vaccum.



degassed with a spoon as always. It is still bubbling, not quite clear and smells yeasty
I beat it to death by hand.


----------



## Rosa321

barbl72 said:


> Starting SG 1.75
> Current SG .990
> Degassed and added Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate and superkleer last Monday per instructions.
> 
> this is my third batch of DB and never had problems in the other two.
> This batch was 9 lbs of triple berry and 2 bananas. the others were 6 lbs of berries no bananas...



Hmmm.........I'm sure it's just a coincidence but I used 9lbs of berries and 2 bananas in this latest batch, too! Would clearing take longer if more berries were used?


----------



## jamesngalveston

i doubt it. I double the fruit on every batch, and have no problems clearing db.
if i make a peach i do it from concentrate with saved peach skins for color and even that clears very fast.
if its strawberry i use three times the fruit and it clears....


----------



## barbl72

so what should I do today? should I rack off the lees and try to degas again? Then add more superkleer? Or just wait it out?


----------



## jamesngalveston

barb. barb. barb.
go to home depot are a harbor freight buy a cheap cordless drill.
get one of the plastic white coat hangers...cut it on one end so its straight,
cut the other end where there is still some bend on it.
put it drill and go to town........
you will never degass it by hand, well maybe but will take a month.


----------



## barbl72

I have degassed by hand the past 9 batches of wine with no problems what so ever! I have some muscles now. 
Should I rack it again before degassing again? I do have a drill and plastic coathanger I could use. That's a good idea James!


----------



## jamesngalveston

stirrer made form clothes hanger.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i used to degass for about 15 minutes the hit the reverse on the drill and another 15 minutes.....usually two times is enough to degass.


----------



## Rosa321

jamesngalveston said:


> i doubt it. I double the fruit on every batch, and have no problems clearing db.
> if i make a peach i do it from concentrate with saved peach skins for color and even that clears very fast.
> if its strawberry i use three times the fruit and it clears....



hhmmmmm......... good to know. Just still worried/wondering what went wrong with mine. I tried to remove as many floaters as I could, but when disturbed, it just fell apart. Now there's some suspended in the liquid.

I guess I just have to let it go for a long time to see if it clears.......


----------



## jamesngalveston

do you have a filter system....
maybe syphon with a cheese cloth, are pour into a bucket through a cheesecloth


----------



## Rosa321

jamesngalveston said:


> do you have a filter system....
> maybe syphon with a cheese cloth, are pour into a bucket through a cheesecloth



I do not have a filter "system". But I could invest in a fine filter funnel and maybe rack to another carboy through the filter funnel?
That is def an option.......

My concern is preventing this from happening in the future......just not sure what went wrong this time through......


----------



## Julie

Rosa, let it go for another week or two before doing anything, I think you are rushing it.

Barbl72, don't worry about degassing, at this point just rack. When you rack you are degassing as well. There seems to be overload of worry on degassing. There is no need to worry about degassing your wine until the last couple of months before bottling. It is rare that I need to degass a wine. I do not make dragon's blood but I do make a couple of batches of skeeter pee every year, which is the same thing and I have yet needed to worry about degassing.


----------



## jamesngalveston

I wish i could tell you, but I really have no idea.
I have made around 60 to 70 gallons of the original db and maybe 80 are 90 of variants, I have never had that happen....
Some other crazy stuff, but not that.I did get something similar in a blackberry once, but it was because i did not add salt to my egg whites when i finned the wine. Salt is a must using egg whites. Keeps it from coagulating.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Dragon blood is suppose to be a very early drinker, like from start to bottling in a month , but you can rush it too much if you do have problems...
I do not move my wine until it is dry in the primary.
I then put in a second carboy and degass the hell out of it.
I rack when it has 1/2 inch of sediment and degass.
I rack again when it has 1/2 inch and degass again.
I then add super kleer and let it clear.
I then rack add sorbate and or fruit pack, and or simple syrup.
Let clear and bottle.
Usually this all happens in 4 to 6 weeks.
I am not advising any one else to practice this method...It works for me.
Just saying.


----------



## jdmyers

I know its hard to wait for your db. especially when it usually cleers so fast. but just keep racking and wait it out. The longer it takes will only bring more of the flavors out


----------



## bkisel

I was talking to a long time wine making friend at Church today about the DB I've been making. Ed said that generally you want to drink your fruit wines within a year. He said that at about a year or so they start dropping their flavor and color. Would you say this is be true in general and true for DB?

Thanx...


----------



## Julie

bkisel said:


> I was talking to a long time wine making friend at Church today about the DB I've been making. Ed said that generally you want to drink your fruit wines within a year. He said that at about a year or so they start dropping their flavor and color. Would you say this is be true in general and true for DB?
> 
> Thanx...



NO, I don't even start drinking my fruit wines until they are a year old.


----------



## Julie

jamesngalveston said:


> Dragon blood is suppose to be a very early drinker, like from start to bottling in a month , but you can rush it too much if you do have problems...
> I do not move my wine until it is dry in the primary.
> I then put in a second carboy and degass the hell out of it.
> I rack when it has 1/2 inch of sediment and degass.
> I rack again when it has 1/2 inch and degass again.
> I then add super kleer and let it clear.
> I then rack add sorbate and or fruit pack, and or simple syrup.
> Let clear and bottle.
> Usually this all happens in 4 to 6 weeks.
> I am not advising any one else to practice this method...It works for me.
> Just saying.



This is good for someone who is making there first batch but once you have made a couple batches you should not be in this much of a hurry.


----------



## jdmyers

im with julie on this we TRY to let our go for a year as for db not really sure as it seems to go faster than i can make it. ounce anybody finds out its ready we seem to get very popular with friends and family


----------



## jamesngalveston

Ok, what ever you say....But DB is suppose to be a very early drinker, a very early bottled wine.......
Maybe i can not read as well as you....But i think the original recipe said.
Wine in 15 days.......please correct me if I am wrong.
Never mind..it is not worth the post.......
Thanks.


----------



## Julie

jamesngalveston said:


> Ok, what ever you say....But DB is suppose to be a very early drinker, a very early bottled wine.......
> Maybe i can not read as well as you....But i think the original recipe said.
> Wine in 15 days.......please correct me if I am wrong.
> Never mind..it is not worth the post.......
> Thanks.



James, don't get mad because some one isn't agreeing with you. I read thru Dave's original recipe and I didn't see any set time frame. Can you post where it said this wine in 15 days? I could have very well missed that. Thanks.


----------



## Hokapsig

I just found a leftover bottle of DB from late 2012/early 2013 and took it to a birthday party. It was the HIT of the party, with a tart berry and semisweet taste. I wish I had more to break out. I was offered money for a case of DB.

Time to think about making another batch....


----------



## jdmyers

sound like somebody needs a nap. or maybe a few glasses of db to mellow out


----------



## Rosa321

I just want to say that I'm grateful for the post with the additional steps in it.

It doesn't say that many rackings in the original recipe.....So I didn't do that the first time. Maybe I just got lucky the first time that it cleared to quickly!

I guess I need to do a few more rackings and wait a while longer before the super kleer and/or the fpack. That might just be what I did....I probably rushed it because I only have a 4 step process that I printed out.

Ok....livin' and learnin' over here! It DOES say additional rackings may or may not be necessary..... Guess I just got lucky the first time...... I'll try a few more rackings, and wait it out....... And in the future, I'll wait longer before adding the "Super Kleer". It doesn't say that in the recipe, but clearly the wine needed some more time to chill out first! hehehe


----------



## jdmyers

As you make it enough times you will get a feel of what to do. I am getting to a point were i dont need to be told to do certain things in a recipe I just know but I would say theres more that I dont know Than what I do know and learning is half the fun. drinking would be the other half


----------



## StoneCreek

Just started a new batch of DB tonight with the original triple berry blend as the recipe calls for. My first batch was a quad berry blend with strawberries and it turned out great. Tonight the wife and I were at Target and they had 3# bags of triple berry on sale for $9.99 and by using the Target Red Card we saved an additional 10% and my wife checked the mobile Target Cartwheel app and we saved another 5% with that. WooHoo. same deal on sugar that was on sale for $1.99 for 4# bags. 

Two questions: First - Why is there a 12-24 hour wait time before pitching yeast for this recipe? I know usually you wait to let the k-meta kill off any wild yeast but this is commercially processed fruit and k-meta isn't used. Is there another reason for the wait time?

Secondly - I know some of you add a banana to increase mouthfeel. Do you add just one or do you add more than one. Also, are they added to the primary or do you wait until the secondary. Thanks. BTW, I do already have about 12oz of raisins added to the fruit bag.


----------



## sour_grapes

Here is a link to the old "Dragon Blood in 15 days!" thread: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/dragon-blood-15-days-31996/

It went on for 843 posts, but was more or less superseded by the present, stickied thread.


----------



## Julie

sour_grapes said:


> Here is a link to the old "Dragon Blood in 15 days!" thread: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/dragon-blood-15-days-31996/
> 
> It went on for 843 posts, but was more or less superseded by the present, stickied thread.



thank you Paul


----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> I just want to say that I'm grateful for the post with the additional steps in it.
> 
> It doesn't say that many rackings in the original recipe.....So I didn't do that the first time. Maybe I just got lucky the first time that it cleared to quickly!
> 
> I guess I need to do a few more rackings and wait a while longer before the super kleer and/or the fpack. That might just be what I did....I probably rushed it because I only have a 4 step process that I printed out.
> 
> Ok....livin' and learnin' over here! It DOES say additional rackings may or may not be necessary..... Guess I just got lucky the first time...... I'll try a few more rackings, and wait it out....... And in the future, I'll wait longer before adding the "Super Kleer". It doesn't say that in the recipe, but clearly the wine needed some more time to chill out first! hehehe



You know it is really funny how this wine making stuff works... I changed Dave's instructions to more closely match what I've been doing with kits. I stabilized (sorbate & K-meta) and stirred, degassed 10 min with electric drill device, back sweetened with 4.5 cups sugar and stirred, added first clearing agent and stirred, waited ~ 1 hour and added second clearing agent and stirred and finally degassed for another 10 minutes. Lifted the carboy onto a kitchen chair, bunged it and did periodic VacuVin degassing over the course of 2-3 days. Sediment dropped over those few days and my DB cleared. DB has been racked, past Tuesday, to a fresh carboy. 

I was going to rack again today but I see zero sediment sitting on the bottom of the carboy. I expected to see at least a little. I'll watch and wait for a few weeks and then bottle after carboy to bucket rack just in case there is a very fine sediment that I'm not seeing.

So go figure. One persons DB clears within hours, another's over the course of just a few days and yet another person struggles to get theirs to clear over the course of a week or more. So again, go figure.


----------



## wildvines

Few glasses will do fine 


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----------



## chasemandingo

I found my sweet spot with the Dragon Blood recipe. I used 1 1/2 pounds triple berry blend. Saved the other 1/2 pound for an fpac and added one can of Welch's niagra concentrate per gallon. Next batch I make will be a straight raspberry and I will be adding bananas and a tannin regiment. Will post results here.


----------



## dangerdave

I have done the raspberry version, Chase, and it is particularly good. You will love it. It's one of my wife's (many) favorates. Consider using extra fruit. The raspberry can sometimes come out light.

Rosa!!! I saw your "chunky" wine picture. I once had the same thing in a kit. Why? I mixed up (reversed) the order of the kieselsol and chitosan. It caused the exact same chunky-looking stuff. Could you have gotten them backwards?

Good news, though. The kit I messed up clear eventually. It just took longer.


----------



## barbl72

jamesngalveston said:


> stirrer made form clothes hanger.



THANK YOU! My husband made one of these for me.
I racked and degassed again...
So now what? Wait a week to see if it clears? If not, do I use Superkleer again?
Thanks for everyone's help!


----------



## Julie

barbl72 said:


> THANK YOU! My husband made one of these for me.
> I racked and degassed again...
> So now what? Wait a week to see if it clears? If not, do I use Superkleer again?
> Thanks for everyone's help!



Don't use superklear again, leave it rest and it should clear. If you rack too often. This keeps everything in suspension. You should always leave your wine sit for three months between rackings. I know this is a quick wine and it will probably clear within the month but if you are racking constantly you will have problems with it clearing.


----------



## Rosa321

Thanks for the advice, Julie!
It's hard for me to be patient. Especially since I don't have a stockpile yet to be drinking! hahahaha

But I do think it is starting to look a little better!
I'll wait it out......I was planning on drinking it this Summer anyway!


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> I have done the raspberry version, Chase, and it is particularly good. You will love it. It's one of my wife's (many) favorates. Consider using extra fruit. The raspberry can sometimes come out light.
> 
> Rosa!!! I saw your "chunky" wine picture. I once had the same thing in a kit. Why? I mixed up (reversed) the order of the kieselsol and chitosan. It caused the exact same chunky-looking stuff. Could you have gotten them backwards?
> 
> Good news, though. The kit I messed up clear eventually. It just took longer.



Hmmmmmmmmmmmm................ MAYBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought I added them right...............but no promises! lol
The names are on the BACK....... That could be it!!!!! I don't mind waiting a bit longer for it to clear (although it's a bit hard to muster up all my patience! hehe) as long as it's good wine in the end, and I can figure out what the heck went wrong. I definitely don't want to go through this every time.


----------



## Julie

Rosa321 said:


> Thanks for the advice, Julie!
> It's hard for me to be patient. Especially since I don't have a stockpile yet to be drinking! hahahaha
> 
> But I do think it is starting to look a little better!
> I'll wait it out......I was planning on drinking it this Summer anyway!



Lol, I know it is hard to be patient but you will get there!


----------



## dangerdave

Regardless of the reason(s) for his removal (it's not my business), I am going to miss James and his invaluable input into this thread. I will attempt to better field questions/comments, here, to make up for his loss. 

Carry on!


----------



## reefman

Bummer, I didn't know that, I'll miss him too!


----------



## keahunter

That really is too bad.


----------



## calvin

Dave, I have to thank you for this awesome recipe! (And nice labels too, I'm assuming you designed them)? Bottled my first batch of dragon blood 3 weeks ago. Only 10 bottles left. I got nervous I was going to run out so I started another batch yesterday. People I have shared it with are literally banging on my door trying to get more. Some are offering $10 a bottle. Obviously in not selling it but holy crap is that stuff yummy! I was at Costco getting ingredients. They only carry the triple berry blend in 4 pound bags. So my new batch will have 8#'s in the primary. I can't wait. I hope it's bottled before I run out but I doubt it will be. 





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----------



## dangerdave

Yes, I designed the label. I'm glad you like it, and the recipe. You are very welcome, Calvin. I appreciate your feedback, and I'm glad everyone loves the wine.

Keep making it, because they will never stop banging on your door. As to selling it: that falls under the "Don't ask, don't tell" category. 

Good work, man!


----------



## willie

I'm kind of new to this site and making wine and have only posted a couple of times. I too will miss James, he is very knowledgeable.
In January I started my first batch of wine from a kit Mosti Mondaile Summer Breeze Raspberry Merlot that I purchased from George's Store along with a wine making kit. The wine is about 55 days old now and I have it bulk ageing in a carboy for a couple of months. My wife drank a sample of it last Sat. and really liked it. It was pretty clear too. I have another 6 gal. of wine going and it is Dave's original D.B. recipe. I'm at step 4 and it has been a week sense the first racking. Looked and tasted the wine few min. ago and it's pretty clear and dry. It won't hurt if I wait a few more days to back sweeten and rack again will it? Thanks, Will


----------



## sour_grapes

dangerdave said:


> Regardless of the reason(s) for his removal (it's not my business), I am going to miss James and his invaluable input into this thread. I will attempt to better field questions/comments, here, to make up for his loss.
> 
> Carry on!



Oh, No! I didn't catch that. That is really a shame. I will miss James's input, too.


----------



## oreoman

Wow I missed what happened with James. He was a huge help in this forum. 


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----------



## dangerdave

willie said:


> It won't hurt if I wait a few more days to back sweeten and rack again will it? Thanks, Will


 
No, Will, that would be fine. Wine making is one of the few endevores that denefits from procrastination.

Good job, my man! We will be expecting some pics after bottling. 
You might also consider starting another batch as soon as possible. You have been warned!


----------



## PoppaCork

No James? Major bummer...


----------



## willie

Ok Dave, thanks. Procrastination is right up my alley.


----------



## jkrug

I tried the db about 2-3 weeks ago and boy it tasted pretty bad. I was a little concerned. Tasted it last night again after adding supper clear on Sunday and WOW what a difference! I actually could taste a tad of the berries in it. I can imagine what a little simple syrup and aging will do to this! Can't wait to bottle and drink now!

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----------



## wildvines

I just bottled my DB last week. I haven't tasted it since bottling but hope it gets better. Did tats a bit more alcohol with hint of berries. I added 4 cubs of sugar to it. So hoping it mellows out a bit. Only about 13 % alcohol. 


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----------



## wildvines

Wifey not a fan of it yet  she doesn't like sweet wines but was hoping she would like this. 


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----------



## dangerdave

jkrug said:


> I tried the db about 2-3 weeks ago and boy it tasted pretty bad. I was a little concerned. Tasted it last night again after adding supper clear on Sunday and WOW what a difference! I actually could taste a tad of the berries in it. I can imagine what a little simple syrup and aging will do to this! Can't wait to bottle and drink now!


 
I'm glad it came around. It does need a little sugar (at least) to balance out. Enjoy!

Carlos, I'm sorry the wife does not go for it. More for you, I guess.


----------



## calvin

At first taste I didn't care for mine either. The berries seemed to tart. Give it a week and drink it over ice. It is now my favorite


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----------



## chasemandingo

Danger, I do plan on using 3 pounds per gallon but will probably not do an f-pac. Plus I have some tannin riche extra which brings out a strong vanilla flavor. Will use some and see the results!


----------



## Elmer

Wow, I dont read a thread for a few weeks and return to find my buddy in the "anti-goop" club gets tossed.
too bad. 

Anyhow.
Thinking this weekend I am starting a Blueberry/raspberry. except 5 or 6 gallons, not sure yet.
Figure with 3 months until pool opening I have plenty of time to let it sit, age, clear without the use of clearing agents.

But I am going to need some clear bottles, so I guess I should start drinking up last years SP and DB!!!!!


----------



## dangerdave

chasemandingo said:


> Danger, I do plan on using 3 pounds per gallon but will probably not do an f-pac. Plus I have some tannin riche extra which brings out a strong vanilla flavor. Will use some and see the results!


 
The vanilla enhancement should be a great addition! Wonderful idea, Chase! Let us know how it goes.


----------



## wildvines

calvin said:


> At first taste I didn't care for mine either. The berries seemed to tart. Give it a week and drink it over ice. It is now my favorite
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




I will try that tonight since it's been a week. Excuse to at least try it. On call tonight so can drink much. 


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----------



## bkisel

calvin said:


> At first taste I didn't care for mine either. The berries seemed to tart. Give it a week and drink it over ice. It is now my favorite
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Is DB meant to be served chilled or does it matter?

Thanx


----------



## dangerdave

Elmer said:


> Wow, I dont read a thread for a few weeks and return to find my buddy in the "anti-goop" club gets tossed.
> too bad.


 
I grieve with you, Elmer. Quite a few of us are dismayed at this.


----------



## wildvines

calvin said:


> At first taste I didn't care for mine either. The berries seemed to tart. Give it a week and drink it over ice. It is now my favorite
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




I will try that tonight since it's been a week. Excuse to at least try it. On call tonight so can drink much. 


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----------



## Elmer

bkisel said:


> Is DB meant to be served chilled or does it matter?
> 
> Thanx




I would say chilled, althought I have put some warm into a glass with ice.
I guess it comes down to preference.
This would be the perfect opportunity for a test. Try one cold, one warm.

I always keep a few in the back of the fridge to make nice and super cold.
but I also tend to drink more DB during the warmer (Ie: hotter) months!


----------



## wildvines

Taste better than bottling day but not great. Taste strong of alcohol. But it should be about 13%. I probably butchered it some how. If anyone wants to send me a bottle so I can have a idea of what a DB should taste like by all means send one!!!!


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----------



## Julie

Try shooting for an ABV around 11%


----------



## Rosa321

Julie said:


> Try shooting for an ABV around 11%



Thanks for the tip Julie. I think I made my first batch too high....(13.7%ABV)
It might be why there was not the best fruit flavor.

I am working on collecting mangos for a batch of mad mango. In the mean time, I just got 15lbs of mixed berries (strawberry, raspberry, and blackberry) at the dollarstore. I thought I'd start with 12lbs of fruit up front, and if it's still weak, use 3lbs for an fpack. If it's good, keep the extra 3lbs for another project, another time! 

My friends have generously volunteered to save bottles and help me drink away my test runs. I'll get this nailed down soon enough! hahaha 

 Just realized I bought the exact amount of fruit needed for Dragonette! Might as well give it a shot!!!!


----------



## dangerdave

Juile is correct. One of the reasons I make the suggested SG in the recipe is to let the fruit flavor come out without being overpowered by the alcohol. We are using a smaller amount of fruit than normal to start with, as compaired to most fruit wines. And if you drink a bunch (like we do at my house), it saves on the liver. I'm more of a mellow-wine-buzz-kinda-guy rather than a get-tanked-on-wine-kinda-guy.

You follow me? 

Oh, and we drink our DB chilled.


----------



## wildvines

Sounds like a plan. 


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----------



## bkisel

People will drink DB to get buzzed? I'll be drinking it to get my recommended daily amount of fruit.


----------



## wildvines

Crap with just two glasses of trying my DB last night I was already getting pretty tipsy. So potent stuff. If I try the DB again will make sure to keep it at 11%


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----------



## Simpsini

Wildines – I made my first batch of DB this year and initially wasn’t too sure about the taste.
Started it on 25 Jan, Starting SG was 1.070. I let it go down to 0.994. I only made 3 Gal so I halved Dave’s recipe. I only added 1 ½ cups of sugar to the 3 Gal. On 12 Feb I tasted it, and the wine had a lemony taste and was just so-so. On 18 March I bottled the 3 gal. I put 1 bottle in the frig and drank it that evening after it was chilled. It was a light semi-sweet fruit wine that when chilled was really good. I drank 2 glasses that night and 2 more the next night. It is starting to grow on me & I’m sure it will be better in another month. I’m already planning to make more. Great recipe Danger Dave! 

Dave


----------



## CowboyRam

I racked and sweetened my Strawberry Rhubarb dragons blood. It seemed to taste ok, but the color is a little orangey in color. It was a nice pink color after coming out of the primary. Did this wine oxidize? The location that I have this wine is not real dark, could the light have something to do with the color change? 





One bottle on the right is what was left over after racking from the primary, and the bottle is what was left was from todays racking. The one on the right did not get any k meta, but has been in the fridge since racking. I did add k meta to my six gallon carboy.


----------



## Julie

dangerdave said:


> So, I started a triple batch of original DB two days ago. I pitched the yeast yesterday morning before going to work. While I was getting my yeast together (EC-1118), I kept asking myself, "Do I _really_ need three packets of yeast?". Now, I know someone will come on and say they already knew this, but I had always added three packets of yeast to my big batches. It's how my (usually) logical mind works. Simple. Triple batch, triple ingredients.
> 
> So, out of character, I added just _one_ packet of rehydrated EC-1118. I figured if it didn't take off after 24 hours, I'd pitch some more.
> 
> I came home this morning to vigorous primary fermentation!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I've discovered even further savings by making larger batches! I know the yeast doesn't cost much, but every penny counts.


 

Hey, not sure if I missed this but how did your experiment come out?


----------



## Lornahdune

I've been lurking around for a while thinking up a recipe for the lingonberry concentrate I picked up at ikea. I think the dragon blood recipe would adapt well. Has anyone had any experience with lingonberry wine? I did a search on the forums but came up empty handed.
I want to mix the lemon juice base with the concentrate, but I'm not experienced enough to judge how much concentrate to use for a three gallon batch. Any ideas?


----------



## GreginND

CowboyRam said:


> I racked and sweetened my Strawberry Rhubarb dragons blood. It seemed to taste ok, but the color is a little orangey in color. It was a nice pink color after coming out of the primary. Did this wine oxidize? The location that I have this wine is not real dark, could the light have something to do with the color change?
> 
> 
> 
> .




Typical of strawberry. It's one of the reasons I don't care for strawberry wines. I don't think it is oxidation. Every strawberry wine I've made was orange in the end.


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----------



## fabrictodyefor

CowboyRam said:


> I racked and sweetened my Strawberry Rhubarb dragons blood. It seemed to taste ok, but the color is a little orangey in color. It was a nice pink color after coming out of the primary. Did this wine oxidize? The location that I have this wine is not real dark, could the light have something to do with the color change?
> .



I have absolutely no suggestions, CowboyRam, but just wanted to say "hi" from a fellow Wyomingite! The only thing I have done with strawberries is a quad dragon's blood, so the other berries give it a darker color. The only rhubarb I've made is a raspberry/rhubarb that turned out great and retained it's nice pink color...so pretty I named it Ravishing Ruby! I guess if it is clear, and tastes good, that may be all you can ask for!


----------



## willie

http://www.breitenbachwine.com/ Well we have never made Strawberry wine but we have an open bottle of Breitenbach Strawberry in the frig right now and it is a beautiful light red in color. Breitenbach is located here in Ohio in Amish country between Sugercreek and Dover. Their award winning fruit wines are made of 100% fruit no flavorings or colorings. How there Strawberry wine comes out so red I do not know. And most all of their wines run 12.5% alcohol.

Will


----------



## Dale1978

Heres one for all of the wine experts 
I have done a variation of Dave's DB - it is 4lb of pineapple, peach, red grape, strawberry and I added 1lb of banana - followed Daves recipe exactly - except I did one gallon - It is 2 weeks old - I have not added any clearing agents - someone tell me why it is so clear - all other wines I have made has never cleared this fast without so kind of clearing agent


----------



## CowboyRam

I just did a google search and found out that in order to retain the red color with strawberries they need to extremely ripe.


----------



## Rosa321

Dale1978 said:


> Heres one for all of the wine experts
> I have done a variation of Dave's DB - it is 4lb of pineapple, peach, red grape, strawberry and I added 1lb of banana - followed Daves recipe exactly - except I did one gallon - It is 2 weeks old - I have not added any clearing agents - someone tell me why it is so clear - all other wines I have made has never cleared this fast without so kind of clearing agent



I have heard bananas help with clearing........


----------



## Julie

Dale1978 said:


> Heres one for all of the wine experts
> I have done a variation of Dave's DB - it is 4lb of pineapple, peach, red grape, strawberry and I added 1lb of banana - followed Daves recipe exactly - except I did one gallon - It is 2 weeks old - I have not added any clearing agents - someone tell me why it is so clear - all other wines I have made has never cleared this fast without so kind of clearing agent



Because normally wine will clear on its one and a one gallon batch clears a lot faster than a 5 gallon batch.


----------



## peaches9324

lmao sorry was replying to an old post forgot I wasn't signed in


----------



## Rmstuck

What is the quickest someone has made DB? The reason I ask is because it seems like it went way too fast. I added super kleer yesterday and it's clearing quick. I started on March 13th. Does that seem quick or am I nuts?


----------



## Winenoob66

Dangerous Dave bottled a batch in 15 days


----------



## ckvchestnut

What happened to James? I'm going to miss his input as well. He may not have been the biggest expert on the forum but he was helpful and seemed to be quite a friendly chap. I'm sorry to hear that he's gone.


----------



## dangerdave

Well, Julie, you did miss it. The yeast experiment worked perfectly. The 18 gallon batch fermented dry right on schedule. One packet of EC-1118 yeast. Those little buggers are great! I only risked this trial on a big batch because if it didn't take off, it was easily fixable by adding some more yeast. Here's a picture after it was clear and filtered (yesterday)...







Just for reference, this batch was started three weeks ago. Ready to bottle. I don't push mine much faster than that, now. I always have it around. No need to hurry anymore.


----------



## Elmer

I know this has been asked, but I could not find the answer.
Oak and DB?
Yeah or nay?

Has anyone ever tried just a touch of oak?


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----------



## dangerdave

Yes, and yes. The last single batch I made, I added one full cup of untoasted oak powder. That was a bit too much, so this time, I added 1/3 as much, and it came out great. Perfect, actually. That's what I'll be using from now on.

On the same note, I tried using some toasted French oak a while back, but couldn't get enough oak flavor in the DB from that. So I'm sticking with the untoasted oak: one third cup per six gallon batch.


----------



## Julie

dangerdave said:


> Well, Julie, you did miss it. The yeast experiment worked perfectly. The 18 gallon batch fermented dry right on schedule. One packet of EC-1118 yeast. Those little buggers are great! I only risked this trial on a big batch because if it didn't take off, it was easily fixable by adding some more yeast. Here's a picture after it was clear and filtered (yesterday)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for reference, this batch was started three weeks ago. Ready to bottle. I don't push mine much faster than that, now. I always have it around. No need to hurry anymore.



Thanks Dave, I would never have thought that but 1118 is a workhorse, so you want to try a batch with 1122?


----------



## Winenoob66

dangerdave said:


> Yes, and yes. The last single batch I made, I added one full cup of untoasted oak powder. That was a bit too much, so this time, I added 1/3 as much, and it came out great. Perfect, actually. That's what I'll be using from now on.
> 
> On the same note, I tried using some toasted French oak a while back, but couldn't get enough oak flavor in the DB from that. So I'm sticking with the untoasted oak: one third cup per six gallon batch.



Ok Dave let me clarify this 1/3 cup untoasted ____ oak (French or American). And was it added to primary or secondary?
I am guessing primary being it was a powder.


----------



## dangerdave

American. Primary.


----------



## dangerdave

Julie said:


> Thanks Dave, I would never have thought that but 1118 is a workhorse, so you want to try a batch with 1122?


 
Don't tempt me! Really. Don't.


----------



## keahunter

What is this stuff in my DB!? I followed Dave's original recipe (except I added 9 lbs of fruit). This morning, after a few days at .994 I racked to my secondary, added the sparkalloid, degassed and went out. When I came home I went to check on my DB and found this. Was it not done fermenting? Is this just lees on top? Should I re-rack? Let it sit?


----------



## Elmer

Started a blueberry/raspberry.
Added 1/4 cup heavy American oak to primary, 3lb each of rasp & blue.

Problem is I used all the sugar I had in the house 20 cups & I am only at an SG of 1.070.

Is powdered sugar an equivalent substitute?

This leaves me with 2 options. Let the must sit until afterwork tommorow when I can grab a bag if sugar.
Or just leave it as is and hope I enjoy an ABV of less than 10%.

Any advice?


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----------



## barbl72

ckvchestnut said:


> What happened to James? I'm going to miss his input as well. He may not have been the biggest expert on the forum but he was helpful and seemed to be quite a friendly chap. I'm sorry to hear that he's gone.



I'm sorry he's gone too and we'll all miss his input !


----------



## barbl72

keahunter said:


> What is this stuff in my DB!? I followed Dave's original recipe (except I added 9 lbs of fruit). This morning, after a few days at .994 I racked to my secondary, added the sparkalloid, degassed and went out. When I came home I went to check on my DB and found this. Was it not done fermenting? Is this just lees on top? Should I re-rack? Let it sit?



Same thing happened to me! I racked again, degassed a bunch and let it sit for a week. All was well and I finished up back sweetening today. I don't think it was done fermenting but... Oh well. It still tastes yummy! Good luck!


----------



## dangerdave

keahunter said:


> What is this stuff in my DB!? I followed Dave's original recipe (except I added 9 lbs of fruit). This morning, after a few days at .994 I racked to my secondary, added the sparkalloid, degassed and went out. When I came home I went to check on my DB and found this. Was it not done fermenting? Is this just lees on top? Should I re-rack? Let it sit?


 
Wow, keahunter! That's a new one! What did you do?!  I have never seen that in any of mine.

Two questions to narrow down what went wrong: How long did you simmer your Sparkolloid? Did you add the Sparkolloid _before_ you degassed? It should be added last, after degassing.


----------



## keahunter

dangerdave said:


> Wow, keahunter! That's a new one! What did you do?!  I have never seen that in any of mine.
> 
> Two questions to narrow down what went wrong: How long did you simmer your Sparkolloid? Did you add the Sparkolloid _before_ you degassed? It should be added last, after degassing.



I simmered it for eight minutes and added it after degassing. I wasn't sure if I degassed enough so I was going to go to degas again when I noticed it floating on top


----------



## dangerdave

That does look like some foamy form of Sparkolloid floating on top. I'm really at a loss for immediate advice. If it were mine, I'd leave it sit and see how it evolves. I wish I had more to give you. Maybe someone else will help us out on this one.


----------



## Julie

dangerdave said:


> Don't tempt me! Really. Don't.



And what do you mean by tempt you!


----------



## Julie

I agree with dangerdave, leave it sit. It actually looks like it is fermenting


----------



## keahunter

Thanks everyone I guess I'll just let it sit for a while. I am assuming that I do not need to add any more sparkalloid


----------



## sour_grapes

Elmer said:


> Started a blueberry/raspberry.
> Added 1/4 cup heavy American oak to primary, 3lb each of rasp & blue.
> 
> Problem is I used all the sugar I had in the house 20 cups & I am only at an SG of 1.070.
> 
> Is powdered sugar an equivalent substitute?
> 
> This leaves me with 2 options. Let the must sit until afterwork tommorow when I can grab a bag if sugar.
> Or just leave it as is and hope I enjoy an ABV of less than 10%.
> 
> Any advice?



As I have read here many times, powdered sugar often contains cornstarch, so you do NOT want to add one that does.

There would be nothing wrong with starting now, and adding the additional sugar tomorrow. Or with waiting and starting tomorrow.


----------



## Rosa321

so about a month ago I bottled my first batch of Dragons Blood. on bottling day there wasn't much flavor, but I was happy with the sweetness at around 5 cups of sugar. I tried a bottle last night and tonight, it is drinkable and possibly has more fruit flavor, but it also seems dryer and more acidic? or maybe it's the burn of the alcohol coming through? I plan on trying it again in a month around Easter time. just didn't know if anyone thought it would get better....... I was afraid to over sweeten from comments that it gets sweeter with time. so I'm not sure what to do now that its not tasting as sweet.....


----------



## dangerdave

"Dryer and more acidic"? How does that happen in the bottle? Not sure, Rosa.


----------



## GreginND

Your palate can vary a lot from day to day and what tasted sweet enough before may taste different to you later. You can always add more sugar to your glass or the bottle when you open it. 


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## Johngottshall

Picked up 2 48 oz bags of blueberries at Sam's club yesterday so will start that version tonight going to try less lemon juice. And add oak to this batch


----------



## fabrictodyefor

Johngottshall said:


> Picked up 2 48 oz bags of blueberries at Sam's club yesterday so will start that version tonight going to try less lemon juice. And add oak to this batch



I started a straight blueberry on 3/4, racked to a car boy on 3/11. I've been over busy at work so haven't even looked at my car boys lately. I did find the blueberry fermented slower than the others I have made. Not too slow, but slower! Maybe I'll have to thief a taste tonight!


----------



## Johngottshall

fabrictodyefor said:


> I started a straight blueberry on 3/4, racked to a car boy on 3/11. I've been over busy at work so haven't even looked at my car boys lately. I did find the blueberry fermented slower than the others I have made. Not too slow, but slower! Maybe I'll have to thief a taste tonight!



Lol keep us posted


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> "Dryer and more acidic"? How does that happen in the bottle? Not sure, Rosa.



I don't know...... I seem to be losing at this Dragon Blood thing! lol
Not giving up, but not winning right now hehe


----------



## keahunter

I also had this interesting fact (well, interesting to me anyway). I started with 9 pounds of fruit, when I removed the fruit bag after the ferment, it only weight slightly under 1.25 pounds. I just found that interesting.


----------



## Winenoob66

Rosa mine has done the same thing. It was good before but now it is at the 2 month old mark it is very tart with the lemon and there isn't much fruit taste to it at all. I am going to make another batch and skip the lemon in it all together and then blend the 2 together to cut the lemon down. Oh and double the fruit in this batch.


----------



## reefman

Winenoob66,
Did you backsweeten the batch or did you go dry?


----------



## Julie

Rosa321 said:


> so about a month ago I bottled my first batch of Dragons Blood. on bottling day there wasn't much flavor, but I was happy with the sweetness at around 5 cups of sugar. I tried a bottle last night and tonight, it is drinkable and possibly has more fruit flavor, but it also seems dryer and more acidic? or maybe it's the burn of the alcohol coming through? I plan on trying it again in a month around Easter time. just didn't know if anyone thought it would get better....... I was afraid to over sweeten from comments that it gets sweeter with time. so I'm not sure what to do now that its not tasting as sweet.....


 
Rosa, what was your starting gravity, your ending and what did you backsweeten it to?


----------



## oreoman

Rosa-- I'm with you on this DB and Tropical Daze. Just don't seem to like the taste. Hoping it improves with age. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bakervinyard

I backsweetened my DB a couple of weeks ago. Wasn't thrilled with the taste at first. I stole a taste yesterday and seems to be improving. I gave a sample to my daughter and her husband and they t6hought it was good. I'll give them the DB and I'll drink something else. 
I have a gallon of Raspberry wine I was thinking of blending some with the DB. What do you think. Bakervinyard


----------



## Rosa321

Julie said:


> Rosa, what was your starting gravity, your ending and what did you backsweeten it to?



Well it's good to know that others have had this problem. 

I started at 1.088 (I was under 1.075 and then added too much sugar and wound up at 1.088). 
I ended at 0.990

I did not take the SG while back sweetening. I didn't know I was supposed to 
I just followed the recipe until I was happy (5cups of white sugar).
I thought it would get sweeter and more like berries overtime. But it hasn't.
Perhaps it's just the lemon juice coming through???
I dunno! I'm a novice!!!! hahahaha
I have blueberry in a carboy now. I'm wondering if I should over sweeten? hmmmm.......


----------



## Rosa321

Winenoob66 said:


> Rosa mine has done the same thing. It was good before but now it is at the 2 month old mark it is very tart with the lemon and there isn't much fruit taste to it at all. I am going to make another batch and skip the lemon in it all together and then blend the 2 together to cut the lemon down. Oh and double the fruit in this batch.



That's what I'm currently doing!!  12 lbs fruit, acidic blend, no lemon, lower starting SG (1.079) crossing my fingers and toes, and hoping for the best! hahaha

I'm sure I'll eventually settle on a wine that I really like. Just gunna take a few batches to get there


----------



## Rosa321

keahunter said:


> I also had this interesting fact (well, interesting to me anyway). I started with 9 pounds of fruit, when I removed the fruit bag after the ferment, it only weight slightly under 1.25 pounds. I just found that interesting.



That's 7.75lbs of yummy flavor!!!


----------



## Julie

Rosa321 said:


> Well it's good to know that others have had this problem.
> 
> I started at 1.088 (I was under 1.075 and then added too much sugar and wound up at 1.088).
> I ended at 0.990
> 
> I did not take the SG while back sweetening. I didn't know I was supposed to
> I just followed the recipe until I was happy (5cups of white sugar).
> I thought it would get sweeter and more like berries overtime. But it hasn't.
> Perhaps it's just the lemon juice coming through???
> I dunno! I'm a novice!!!! hahahaha
> I have blueberry in a carboy now. I'm wondering if I should over sweeten? hmmmm.......



Rosa, I am assuming you like sweet wines. Take a reading to see where you are at. I am going to say you like your wines at 1.010. If I was you I would open a bottle, take some out add a tsp of sugar to the wine you took out, warm that up for about 30 seconds in the microwave, stir until dissolve, add it back to the wine and taste it! If you like it, take a reading, now you know how sweet to make the next patch.

And remember, you just might not like DB!


----------



## Rosa321

Julie said:


> Rosa, I am assuming you like sweet wines. Take a reading to see where you at at. I am going to say you like your wines at 1.010. If I was you I would open a bottle, take some out add a tsp of sugar to the wine you took out, warm that up for about 30 seconds in the microwave, stir until dissolve, add it back to the wine and taste it! If you like it, take a ready, now you know how sweet to make the next patch.
> 
> And remember, you just might not like DB!



Thanks, Julie! 

I actually like ALL wine hahahahaha 
I'll drink dry reds to sweet fruity wines. However, for the summer, I think I would prefer some light sweet fruity wines. With that said, I am just having a problem with the acidity. If I got heartburn, I'm sure it would have given it to me!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Rosa and others who are finding the flavour and acidity issues: 

How much lemon did you use and fruit for a 6 gal batch? I just made the dragonette version which has NO lemon. I have to say that I think I like the original version a tad better and seems more fruity. But I have never used the full amt of lemon called for but always MORE fruit. Perhaps if you just tweaked your recipe you will find the DB that suits you best. 

Without the lemon in my dragonette I perceive a slightly less fruity flavour - but I only backsweetened to .998 or 1.000. It went dry to .990. While I'm not a sweet freak, I do find that my other two batches at 1.010 were much more fruity right from the get go an those were higher abv as well. But I am determined to keep bottles from this drier batch for longer to see what aging does to the overall fruitiness and flavour profile. Some food for thought. I still haven't done a batch of DB that I haven't liked. And I too like SO many styles of wine from bone dry big reds to fruity whites, blushes and sultry, buttery chards.


----------



## Rmstuck

When finished is this wine similar to white Zinfandel or more of a fruit wine?


----------



## TableSeven

Well my wine is looking quite beautiful, I sweetened today, but I won't get to taste for several weeks due to illness and alcohol not mixing well with the medication I'm on for it..  

I was told it was sweetened well.

Bottling in a week, then I'll finally taste it in three..skeeter pee starts tomorrow.


----------



## Winenoob66

Dragon's Blood notes 1/5/14
time 10:30 pm

cleaned and sanitized everything

filtered 5 gallons of water in the brita pitcher

added 1 gallon of filtered water to pot on stove
and brought it to a boil
added 20 cups of sugar and stirred it until it had
completely disolved
added sugar water to primary
added 1 48oz bottle RealLemon juice to primary
stirred the **** out of it
brought water to 5 gallon mark on primary
stirred the **** outta it somemore

Took SG 1.090

added 1 tsp grape tanning (stirred)
added 4 tsp yeast nutrient (stirred) 
added 2 tsp yeast energizer (stirred)
added 3 tsp pectin enzyme (stirred)
added 6 lbs triple berry blend fruit to 5 gallon paint strainer bag and
gave the bag a few squeeses to break it up some and let the 
pectin work work into it some.

Did not top water to 6 gallons like it says in the orginal directions 
as I am only doing a 5 gallon batch but topping to 5 gallon before 
adding fruit brought me over the 5 gallon mark to almost 5.5 gal 
with fruit added (hoping this will give me a little extra for racking)

1/6/14
Made starter for yeast then took SG at 1.090
Gave bag a few squeeses for good measure, and stirred.
Pitched yeast

1/7/14
Squeezed bag almost dry then placed in sanatized bowl,
Stirred for 2 minutes then took Gravity reading 1.082

1/8/14
Squeezed bag almost dry then placed in sanatized bowl,
Stirred for 2 minutes then took Gravity reading 1.050

1/9/14
Squeezed bag almost dry then placed in sanatized bowl,
Stirred for 2 minutes then took Gravity reading 1.024

1/10/14
Removed and squeezed bag dry, Gave must a gentle stir 
and took SG 1.000. If I hadn't of gave must a stir gently
I would be transfering to secondary now. But being I have 
I will transfer tomorrow.

1/11/14
Took SG .090. Racked onto 5 crushed and disolved camden 
tablets (disolved in a half cup of heated water) to cleaned 
and sanitized 5 Gallon Carboy tried degassing, but not alot 
of bubbles came up. Added Tsp sparkloid into 1 cup water.
Brought to heavy simmer for 5 minutes. Stirred into carboy.
Placed cleaned and sanitized Bung and airlock on carboy.

1/18/14
Racked off lees to clean and santized carboy.
Added sorbate to half cup warm water and added to DB 
Stired gently will backsweeten tomorrow

1/19/14
Backsweetened with 3 and 1/2 cup sugar by warming some 
in a cleaned and sanitized pot then melting in sugar and 
adding back to carboy

1/23/14
Bottled today, going to have to make more of this termites got into it.


----------



## Elmer

Finally got my 2 cups of sugar, brought my SG up to 1.080.
Dropped in some lalvin 1-118 last night.

As of this morning there is a nice layer of frothy stuff on top.

Since I am fermenting in the basement and brew belt broke, this is gone to be a cold ferment!


----------



## dangerdave

It's true. Dragon Blood (in it's original form) will not please everyone. But it is manageable. You can tweak the recipe to make it as you like it. More fruit, different fruit, less acid, more sugar, oak, etc. I was lucky enough that I got mine right (the way I like it) he first time. But I've been experimenting with it ever since. It does seem to go through it's own---sometimes unpredictable---form of evolution.

I personally did not go much for the Dragonette. I added that version to the file because I thought others might enjoy it. We all have different taste.

Last night, I bottled 54 Dragon Blood (with one old Seagrims Gin bottle, just for fun) and a number of gallon jugs for the fridge from my 18 gallon batch. Twenty-three days from start to finish. That should hold me for a while!

Atsa lotsa Dragon Blood!


----------



## ckvchestnut

That's awesome and looks lovely Dave! I bottled 6 of my 9 gals over the weekend an it's pretty decent. After having it with the lemon I think I'll enjoy always using the lemon. 3 gals I'm keeping on heavy toast Hungarian oak for awhile to see how that goes.


----------



## Rosa321

ckvchestnut said:


> Rosa and others who are finding the flavour and acidity issues:
> 
> How much lemon did you use and fruit for a 6 gal batch? I just made the dragonette version which has NO lemon. I have to say that I think I like the original version a tad better and seems more fruity. But I have never used the full amt of lemon called for but always MORE fruit. Perhaps if you just tweaked your recipe you will find the DB that suits you best.
> 
> Without the lemon in my dragonette I perceive a slightly less fruity flavour - but I only backsweetened to .998 or 1.000. It went dry to .990. While I'm not a sweet freak, I do find that my other two batches at 1.010 were much more fruity right from the get go an those were higher abv as well. But I am determined to keep bottles from this drier batch for longer to see what aging does to the overall fruitiness and flavour profile. Some food for thought. I still haven't done a batch of DB that I haven't liked. And I too like SO many styles of wine from bone dry big reds to fruity whites, blushes and sultry, buttery chards.



I used the lemon juice called for in the recipe. 48oz. How much do you use???/
Thanks!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Hi Rosa, I used 40 oz in my first batch (my local Walmart sells a 32 oz bottle as their largest size) so the 2nd time I only used the 32oz liked both batches very much. Also made slightly more than 6 gals so I could have the extra for top up.


----------



## Rmstuck

Rmstuck said:


> When finished is this wine similar to white Zinfandel or more of a fruit wine?




.??? Anybody????


----------



## JetJockey

I've just finished my Blueberry DB and was doing some back sweetening tests for preferred SG. I used 9 3/4 pounds of home picked blueberries that were picked in the summer of 2013 and frozen. I thawed them on 1/14/14 and placed them in a fine nylon bag, added 3/4 gal water, and added 1/4 tsp k-meta and pectic enzyme and let sit for two days to let fruit break down. I used 48 oz. lemon and added sugar to an SG of 1.10. Ferment took 10 days to get to .990 and then removed fruit. After five days, the final SG was 0.988.

Cleared with Sparkolloid and let it sit for 9 days, then racked. I then cooked 6 cups of frozen store bought blueberries with 1.5 cups of water and 2 cups of sugar for 20 minutes. Then strained through mesh bag and added sugar to SG = 1.00. Let sit for 5 weeks because everyone says straight blueberry takes longer to come around. Racked it into a 5 gal carboy and two 1/2 gal jugs for testing.

I tasted it throughout the process and now the final SG 1.00 wine as well as the batch at SG 1.01 has an indescribable off taste . The taste has been there all along. The carboys were very full, so it shouldn't be oxidation. My rackings were done by vacuum.

Is this just what blueberry tastes like or could freezer burn affect the taste. Is having frozen berries for 7 months too long?

This is my first straight blueberry batch and my first 15% ABV batch. Also I used James's instructions on the simple syrup with fruit for more flavor (1st time for this, too). I'm going to miss him!!

Any help would be appreciated! The taste isn't chemical, metallic, moldy, or anything else I can describe. I can obviously taste the higher alcohol, but there is another off taste.


----------



## TableSeven

Rmstuck said:


> .??? Anybody????



I ended up here and making it because of being told it was like a sangria, that's my kind of wine, I like the sweet but not sickening sweet wine.

I'd say fruit wine, now mind you I haven't tasted it sweetened & finished, only along the way. Unsweetened a friend compared it to a red he had from out of state. Sweetened but not cleared I was asked if it had grapefruit in it. Finished product, I'll tell you in 3 weeks.


----------



## Rmstuck

TableSeven said:


> I ended up here and making it because of being told it was like a sangria, that's my kind of wine, I like the sweet but not sickening sweet wine.
> 
> I'd say fruit wine, now mind you I haven't tasted it sweetened & finished, only along the way. Unsweetened a friend compared it to a red he had from out of state. Sweetened but not cleared I was asked if it had grapefruit in it. Finished product, I'll tell you in 3 weeks.



Thank You. I tried first day sweetened and thought oh gross. But after a couple days it is getting better I'm just wondering what to expect.

Thanks again.


----------



## ckvchestnut

It's definitely fruity... 3-4 weeks more and to will have a lovely fruit wine. 

Jet jockey: that's is odd about the blueberry... Was there a lot of snow on the blueberries, indicative of freezer burn? Does it taste a tad "stale"?


----------



## wineforfun

Rosa321 said:


> I used the lemon juice called for in the recipe. 48oz. How much do you use???/
> Thanks!



You may try lime juice in place of the lemon. I have made versions with the lime and it isn't as acidic. It has a different makeup to it. I prefer the original(or close to it with a few tweaks) but the lime version is good too.


----------



## dangerdave

Rmstuck said:


> When finished is this wine similar to white Zinfandel or more of a fruit wine?


 
I'm sorry I missed this, Rmstuck.

I created the DB recipe because my wife was drinking some raspberry white zin and a "Cafe Zin". Those would both qualify as "fruity white zin", so it might lie inbetween. It comes out a little more tart---from the lemon juice---but yes, it's light and fruity, and as sweet at you want it.


----------



## dangerdave

JetJockey said:


> Any help would be appreciated! The taste isn't chemical, metallic, moldy, or anything else I can describe. I can obviously taste the higher alcohol, but there is another off taste.


 
Darn, Bob. I'm sorry if it's giving you fits. If you can't discribe it, it's pretty hard to figure out what it might be.


----------



## JetJockey

W Ermine (aka WWW), Stale may be what I was looking for. I'll keep that in mind as I taste some more tonight. i saw a little frost, but not what I'd consider out of the ordinary!

Dave,
Good news is that I'm not finicky about what I drink. I'm persistent and I have 3/4 of a bottle plus 6 more gallons to get it figured out! I'll keep you posted as I narrow it down.


----------



## Rosa321

As an update, I added sugar and strawberries to a glass of Dragon's Blood and it was GOOD.
So at least I can doctor that up and not waste it. 
Not sure what will become of the blueberry I have "aging" or the Dragonette I am fermenting.
I hope I'm not wasting 12 more gallons of wine! 
Hopefully, at worst, those can be doctored, too! lol


----------



## JetJockey

Rosa,
This is a forgiving wine and most likely can be saved! If you ever need to WASTE any, I'm only a couple of hours away!


----------



## Julie

Rosa321 said:


> As an update, I added sugar and strawberries to a glass of Dragon's Blood and it was GOOD.
> So at least I can doctor that up and not waste it.
> Not sure what will become of the blueberry I have "aging" or the Dragonette I am fermenting.
> I hope I'm not wasting 12 more gallons of wine!
> Hopefully, at worst, those can be doctored, too! lol



take a hydrometer reading after you sweeten a bottle, now check that with what you have aging. It will be easier for you to fix what is in a carboy than what is in a bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

Julie is right. You want get it at least close to what you want before you bottle. Aging in the bottle will not fix everything, as much as the DB might improve.

Thanks, Juile, for helping field questions in our little part of the forum. DB makers are a unique group, and we like your company.


----------



## PoppaCork

dangerdave said:


> It's true. Dragon Blood (in it's original form) will not please everyone. But it is manageable. You can tweak the recipe to make it as you like it. More fruit, different fruit, less acid, more sugar, oak, etc. ]



Dave, I'm going to try a DB variation with only bananas. I am going to used 30 lbs. of chunked up banana with peels on, and 30 lbs. without peels.(trying for some flavor from this light fruit) I read somewhere that banana peels have a lot of tannin. 
My question is, do you think I should use less tannin, or none at all because of the banana peels?(it's a 6 gallon batch) Am I over thinking this?


----------



## sour_grapes

PoppaCork said:


> Dave, I'm going to try a DB variation with *only bananas.*



Wouldn't that be better named "Dragon Bile"?


----------



## dangerdave

PoppaCork said:


> Dave, I'm going to try a DB variation with only bananas. I am going to used 30 lbs. of chunked up banana with peels on, and 30 lbs. without peels.(trying for some flavor from this light fruit) I read somewhere that banana peels have a lot of tannin.
> My question is, do you think I should use less tannin, or none at all because of the banana peels?(it's a 6 gallon batch) Am I over thinking this?


 
I have no idea, my good man. What I do know is that you can add tannin later, to your wine, if you think it needs some. I think that's called "finishing tannins". But I have no idea how much tannin you'll get from all those bananas. Enough, I would think.


----------



## Julie

PoppaCork said:


> Dave, I'm going to try a DB variation with only bananas. I am going to used 30 lbs. of chunked up banana with peels on, and 30 lbs. without peels.(trying for some flavor from this light fruit) I read somewhere that banana peels have a lot of tannin.
> My question is, do you think I should use less tannin, or none at all because of the banana peels?(it's a 6 gallon batch) Am I over thinking this?



I would use the recommended amount. Bananas are fairly low in tannins.


----------



## PoppaCork

Thanks all.


----------



## jojabri

Met a new wine-buddy yesterday when picking up a 15 gal demijohn off Craigslist (which BTW, I got at STEAL!).

We swapped bottles, fortunately I had a quad-berry DB in the van. He and his wife were really impressed by the color. He seemed interested in the recipe, especially after I told him the record from start to bottle was 15 days. My personal record is 21. He may regret selling me that demijohn. 

He texted me earlier to say he was excited to try it tonight. *fingers crossed* I'm kinda nervous!

Again thanks Danger Dave! 

Oh BTW, the Strawberry DB I made a bit back... bottled it the other night.. wow! Although it was messy, back sweetening with the Bacardi strawberry concentrate really blew out the strawberry flavor and color as well as adding mouth feel! I have full confidence with using this as my sister's baby shower giveaways. For future reference if you ever backs weeten with stuff, strain it through cheesecloth. I didn't realize it had solids in it and dumped it right in. Ended up siphoning it with cheesecloth rubber-banded around the end. Purpose served!


----------



## dangerdave

You are welcome, Gina. Again, great story. And the strawberry is lovely!

Feel free to share the DB recipe with any and all who are interested. Spread the love! It's all about making good wine!


----------



## jojabri

dangerdave said:


> Feel free to share the DB recipe with any and all who are interested. Spread the love! It's all about making good wine!



This was kinda a happy accident.

I kinda goofed up and accidentally bought a 6 lb container of frozen strawberries in sugar water (thinking it was just strawberries) plus anpther 1lb of frozen strawberries. OOPSIE! Realizing this after I had already started, and I couldn't go to the store that late at night *Ahem* (DUI) I pulled the strawberries out of a mixed berry frozen bag I had... So approximately 3.5 lbs.

Anyways:
Started:2.9.14 OG= 1.075 (probably higher because A) adding the berries
6 lb frozen slice strawberries in sugar water
3.5 lb additional frozen strawberries
it took less sugar to reach desired OG- couldn't tell ya how much as I always make it into a syrup and I used less than the normal.

all other ingredients same as original recipe
Pitched: 1 pkt Cotes de Blancs on 2.10.14

2.19.14 FG= .992. Racked to carboy, k-meta/sorbate and sparkolloid as per direction.

3.3.14 backsweetened with 2 cans Bacardi frozen strawberry daquiri mixer + 3 cp granulated white sugar simple syrup.

This was the point where I realized that there were solids in the frozen mixture. so there were solids gloating on top. Hence the cheesecloth around the base of the siphon.

Bottled 3.24.14. Taste is AMAZING! Post sweetening sg= 1.015 (intended to be sweet)

I let this one go slower than a typical DB because the teeny mistakes and for the fact that I know I'll be giving a bunch out for my little sister's baby shower and I didn't wanna look like a total idiot.

planning to use this label. Long and hilarious story but the penguin thing, but is her shower theme


----------



## Rosa321

Julie said:


> take a hydrometer reading after you sweeten a bottle, now check that with what you have aging. It will be easier for you to fix what is in a carboy than what is in a bottle.



Thanks for the tip!

I just drank my glass empty! 
Next time I sweeten, I'll take a reading. 

And thanks for hanging around here, Julie and Dave.
I need all the help I can get!!


----------



## Rosa321

JetJockey said:


> Rosa,
> This is a forgiving wine and most likely can be saved! If you ever need to WASTE any, I'm only a couple of hours away!



Thanks, Bob!

Just trying not to feel discouraged. My first few attempts didn't go the way I'd hoped haha
But if I ever do give up on a batch, I will absolutely keep you in mind, my friend!


----------



## Winenoob66

Rosa321 said:


> And thanks for hanging around here, Julie and Dave.
> I need all the help I can get!!



LMAO Dave can't leave he can't find the door !!!


----------



## PAFruitWines

I have 7 gal of strawberry clearing right now. I mixed everything to 6 gal and added 15 lbs frozen strawberries. Wound up with seven gallons! I boiled down 2 lbs strawberries, strained and added 3/4 cup sugar to backsweeten 2 gal. I have 5 gal dry in a carboy that I might have to try the Bacardi mix. Thanks for the idea!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## beggarsu

I am thinking of using this recipe with frozen juice since I don't think we have this "6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend: here in this small city in Canada - or even in Canada I don't know.

BTW, how much does this "6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend" cost there in the States? I don't think we have anything even comparable. Most fruit here is very expensive and in small amounts.

I was planning to make a wine from just frozen concentrate cans .
I have used a few cans before to value add to my natural picked raspberries since I didn't have enough of them. It worked fine, cans can be bought cheap here sometimes - minute maid brand is currently on sale.
....
1 can makes 1.18 litre juice , I have calculated previously about 4 cans per gallon (more like 3.73) actually 20 cans per 6 Gallons US.


So I was thinking that 20 cans would make 6 gallon maybe 24 cans would be better if just cans for wine. (Anyone have their own recipe for this?)

Anyway skeeter pee uses 116 oz lemon juice for 6 gallon US, and this recipe (Dragon's Blood) uses 48 oz lemon juice so I calculate that means about 58.5 percent make up for fruit juice so that means 12 (11.7) cans.

So how about as a recipe 48 oz lemon juice and 12-14 cans fruit berry (or other similar , I will see what they have) frozen juice concentrate?

Does that seem about right?


----------



## jojabri

A while back I did an experiment with Welch's white grape peach, dragon blood style with the fruit bag filled with frozen tropical fruit consisting of mango, peach, and pineapple. It turned out well. Not my fave right off, so I'm allowing it to bottle age. Hubby gave one to his aunt tonight and she says its her favorite so far. That being said, he also brought her one of each quadberry and strawberry DB and a blue-pom. She opened the Welch's db experiment 1st... soooo... maybe won't be her fave after that.

I'll sift thru my notes and see if I can find the recipe I used. Can't find it this very second. Boo!

Sent from my LT30at using Wine Making mobile app


----------



## dangerdave

beggarsu said:


> So I was thinking that 20 cans would make 6 gallon maybe 24 cans would be better if just cans for wine. (Anyone have their own recipe for this?)


 
Yes, stick with 4 cans per gallon in the must. Check SG and add extra sugar if desired. Back sweeten with 4 to 6 cans of concentrate (I use four), depending on how sweet you want it. That's what I do, anyway.

Good luck! 

Oh, and I get 3 pound bags of frozen fruit here in Ohio for around $10. I use two bags for my six gallon DB recipe, with about seven pounds of sugar (for SG and back sweetening), with a few tsp of additives, and one 48oz bottle of lemon juice. Total comes out to about $30US for the whole batch. Very economical!

I've made so much, I could do it blind-folded.


----------



## beggarsu

dangerdave said:


> Yes, stick with 4 cans per gallon in the must. Check SG and add extra sugar if desired. Back sweeten with 4 to 6 cans of concentrate (I use four), depending on how sweet you want it. That's what I do, anyway.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Oh, and I get 3 pound bags of frozen fruit here in Ohio for around $10. I use two bags for my six gallon DB recipe, with about seven pounds of sugar (for SG and back sweetening), with a few tsp of additives, and one 48oz bottle of lemon juice. Total comes out to about $30US for the whole batch. Very economical!
> 
> I've made so much, I could do it blind-folded.




Thanks , yes those prices are quite reasonable.

I'll scour the stores we have here in this small prairie city to see if we have anything comparable in the frozen fruit line. I don't even remember seeing fruit sold like that but I don't shop for it much, I'll see.


If not, I'll use the cans , as I know we have them and often on sale.


----------



## Medic8106

Kinda disappointed...

I started my first Dragon Blood January 27th and bottled about 2 weeks ago. I followed the recipe exactly except I reduced the lemon juice by 1/2 due to the acid and when I back sweetened, I used 1 cup per gallon because I like a sweeter wine. Fruit was 1 pound per gallon as per the recipe. I made a three gallon batch...

I drank 1 gallon of this from the start without bottling and thought it was pretty good. Gave a mason jar full to my parents and a bottle that I bottled to a co-worker. My mom said it was "good". Dad and co-worker didn't like it. My co-worker thought it needed "more flavor".

I'm not sure if I did something wrong or it just doesn't please the taste of "others". I'm happy with the way it turned out for the cost and time involved. But then again, I would consider myself someone who would drink anything and wouldn't be picky on taste. I just want to make something good that others would like. Just starting out making wine, it really is a blow and makes me not want to give anything else I have made away for fear nobody will like it. 

I plan on doing another batch, I'm going to double the fruit and use the full amount of lemon.


----------



## bkisel

Last night wife and I each had a glass of the DB batch that was bottled earlier in the day. We were/are very pleased with the results.  We'd rate the DB a 8.5 on a scale of 1-10 compared to a 10 for our so far favorite kit wines (Janet RJS VdV Pinot Grigio back sweetened with 500ML simple syrup; me RJS WS Washington Merlot).  Oh, and how the frugal in me loves the price! 

I can't think of anything that would make the wine _much_ better than what we've got now. If I were to start another batch today the only change I'd make ingredient wise would be to add a little less water. I'd not try a tweak that could mess up this recipe... THANKS DAVE!

Here are my notes:

Started Monday 02/24/2014

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds
Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%
Day 16 (Tuesday) Racked to Bubbler from glass carboy to get off of clearing sediment. Wine looks pretty clear but will probably drop a bit more sediment. Tasted good even at this early stage.
Day 28 (Wednesday 3/26/14) Bottled 30.5 equivalent. / Some very fine sediment on bottom. Did not suck up but next time rack to bucket to bottle. / Steal taste – thought Janet would say a bit tart and want sweetened but.. surprise… she liked it as is! / Janet and I split the .5 bottle. Very pleased! We would rate as 8.5 on a scale of 1-10.

Lessons Learned: a) Use less water. Had ~800ML over 23L/6 gallon. b) Maybe degas in a bucket a little longer so won’t have to hand vacuum pump? c) Rack to bucket for bottling to double insure no sediment brought into bottle. d) Would mashing/crushing fruit before adding result in a bit more fruit flavor being extracted?


----------



## Elmer

Medic8106 said:


> Kinda disappointed...
> 
> I started my first Dragon Blood January 27th and bottled about 2 weeks ago. I followed the recipe exactly except I reduced the lemon juice by 1/2 due to the acid and when I back sweetened, I used 1 cup per gallon because I like a sweeter wine. Fruit was 1 pound per gallon as per the recipe. I made a three gallon batch...
> 
> I drank 1 gallon of this from the start without bottling and thought it was pretty good. Gave a mason jar full to my parents and a bottle that I bottled to a co-worker. My mom said it was "good". Dad and co-worker didn't like it. My co-worker thought it needed "more flavor".
> 
> I'm not sure if I did something wrong or it just doesn't please the taste of "others". I'm happy with the way it turned out for the cost and time involved. But then again, I would consider myself someone who would drink anything and wouldn't be picky on taste. I just want to make something good that others would like. Just starting out making wine, it really is a blow and makes me not want to give anything else I have made away for fear nobody will like it.
> 
> I plan on doing another batch, I'm going to double the fruit and use the full amount of lemon.



Let a few bottles sit, the flavors come out with time.
I have bottles that are 9 moths old and taste nowhere near what they were when I bottled it during the summer.

"I'm happy with the way it turned out for the cost and time involved."
This is all that matters!
I have given bottle upon bottle to people looking for them to share my excitement and passion for my wine and all I got was a "meh"!

I make what I like and I make it all for me. Someone wants some, they can have some, but I make it for me & my tastes!

experiment, drink, enjoy!


----------



## Elmer

bkisel said:


> Here are my notes:
> 
> Started Monday 02/24/2014
> 
> Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%
> Day 16 (Tuesday) Racked to Bubbler from glass carboy to get off of clearing sediment. Wine looks pretty clear but will probably drop a bit more sediment. Tasted good even at this early stage.
> Day 28 (Wednesday 3/26/14) Bottled 30.5 equivalent. / Some very fine sediment on bottom. Did not suck up but next time rack to bucket to bottle. / Steal taste – thought Janet would say a bit tart and want sweetened but.. surprise… she liked it as is! / Janet and I split the .5 bottle. Very pleased! We would rate as 8.5 on a scale of 1-10.




Sorry for the back to back posts,
But BKisel, I am fascinated that you back sweeten before clearing?
I am by no means saying it is wrong or passing judgement, However I have always back sweetened after clearing.

My logic has always been, why sweeten what you are only going to toss out!


----------



## bkisel

Medic8106 said:


> Kinda disappointed...
> 
> I started my first Dragon Blood January 27th and bottled about 2 weeks ago. I followed the recipe exactly except I reduced the lemon juice by 1/2 due to the acid and when I back sweetened, I used 1 cup per gallon because I like a sweeter wine. Fruit was 1 pound per gallon as per the recipe. I made a three gallon batch...
> 
> I drank 1 gallon of this from the start without bottling and thought it was pretty good. Gave a mason jar full to my parents and a bottle that I bottled to a co-worker. My mom said it was "good". Dad and co-worker didn't like it. My co-worker thought it needed "more flavor".
> 
> I'm not sure if I did something wrong or it just doesn't please the taste of "others". I'm happy with the way it turned out for the cost and time involved. But then again, I would consider myself someone who would drink anything and wouldn't be picky on taste. I just want to make something good that others would like. Just starting out making wine, it really is a blow and makes me not want to give anything else I have made away for fear nobody will like it.
> 
> I plan on doing another batch, I'm going to double the fruit and use the full amount of lemon.



Nathan, I feel your frustration. It isn't easy, maybe it isn't even possible, to make a wine that will please everyone in your circle. I've tended to make wines that my wife will more likely like or that I'll more likely like. Stuff we've gifted have generally been a hit but not always. Folks have always appreciated the gesture whether or not they've been thrilled by the taste of the wine. I suggest you focus on pleasing yourself and your wife - assuming you're married.


----------



## bkisel

Elmer said:


> Sorry for the back to back posts,
> But BKisel, I am fascinated that you back sweeten before clearing?
> I am by no means saying it is wrong or passing judgement, However I have always back sweetened after clearing.
> 
> My logic has always been, why sweeten what you are only going to toss out!



Elmer, 

It was a confidence thing. All the RJS kits I've done had instructions to to do it that way. It has worked for me. I know how you do it also works, I've done it that way twice myself (but screwed up the first time by not adding more sorbate), and I understand your logic. 

3. Add Pkg. #2A Sulphite to the wine and stir vigorously.
4. Add Pkg. #2B Potassium Sorbate (if your kit contains 2 packages add
both) to the wine and stir vigorously.
5. If your wine kit includes finishing blend or sweetening blend,please refer to label
instructions and add now.
6. Important: Degas wine vigorously for 5 minutes by stirring
with the handle of a spoon or with a drill mounted stirring
device. INSUFFICIENT STIRRING WILL PREVENT THE WINE
FROM CLEARING ADEQUATELY.
7. Add Packet D1 (Kieselsol) to wine and stir for 1 minute. Then add D2 (Chitosan)
and stir well. Important: Do not reverse the order of Kieselsol and Chitosan.
Degas wine for 5 minutes by stirring vigorously.


----------



## Rmstuck

Ok so I sweetened the DB 5 days ago which I know I should just let sit for while but I'm leaving town for 4 weeks and wanted to see if I like the DB before I left. I think it needs more flavor so I bought 36oz more of the quadberries and boil them and strain off all the juices and add them to the carboy. I then degassed again is there anything else I should do besides leave it alone for 4 weeks?


----------



## CowboyRam

I just bottled my Strawberry/Rhubarb DB. I am not sure what it tastes like now, but a few days after I sweetened it, I had the wifes approval. I bulk ages this batch for about two months. After racking I had about two mason jars full left over, so I bottle one bottle dry, just to see how it compares in a year to the one sweetened.


----------



## reefman

Rmstuck said:


> Ok so I sweetened the DB 5 days ago which I know I should just let sit for while but I'm leaving town for 4 weeks and wanted to see if I like the DB before I left. I think it needs more flavor so I bought 36oz more of the quadberries and boil them and strain off all the juices and add them to the carboy. I then degassed again is there anything else I should do besides leave it alone for 4 weeks?



Nope, just make sure it's in a carboy with no head space (about 2 inches below the bung) and add an airlock. It should be just fine.


----------



## Rosa321

Medic8106 said:


> Kinda disappointed...
> 
> I started my first Dragon Blood January 27th and bottled about 2 weeks ago. I followed the recipe exactly except I reduced the lemon juice by 1/2 due to the acid and when I back sweetened, I used 1 cup per gallon because I like a sweeter wine. Fruit was 1 pound per gallon as per the recipe. I made a three gallon batch...
> 
> I drank 1 gallon of this from the start without bottling and thought it was pretty good. Gave a mason jar full to my parents and a bottle that I bottled to a co-worker. My mom said it was "good". Dad and co-worker didn't like it. My co-worker thought it needed "more flavor".
> 
> I'm not sure if I did something wrong or it just doesn't please the taste of "others". I'm happy with the way it turned out for the cost and time involved. But then again, I would consider myself someone who would drink anything and wouldn't be picky on taste. I just want to make something good that others would like. Just starting out making wine, it really is a blow and makes me not want to give anything else I have made away for fear nobody will like it.
> 
> I plan on doing another batch, I'm going to double the fruit and use the full amount of lemon.



I know.....I was hoping to make a wine to knock everyone's socks off! hahahaha
Maybe I did, and I just don't know it. Or maybe I just have to keep tweaking.

Just don't give up! It's an enjoyable hobby, none-the-less


----------



## beggarsu

dangerdave said:


> Yes, stick with 4 cans per gallon in the must. Check SG and add extra sugar if desired. Back sweeten with 4 to 6 cans of concentrate (I use four), depending on how sweet you want it. That's what I do, anyway.



Wait a minute - 24 cans is for 6 gallons straight of wine from concentrate fruit juice.
So to balance to your recipe (for a 6 gallon batch) - you are using approx 40 percent lemon (40 percent skeeter pee recipe = 48/116 oz) so I should use 60 percent fruit juice which would be 16 cans juice.


ie 48 oz lemon + 16 cans juice would balance to the same Dragon's Blood recipe , Isn't that right?i
Or do you say - just go crazy on the juice? - but really that is not the same juice to lemon balance? Or works better?


----------



## ckvchestnut

To those worried about flavour, I'm sure DB is like any other wine, (and it has been mentioned on this thread before I believe) - time in the bottle will improve it a lot. It does go through sone change in flavour. It's a good idea I think to experiment by bottling a few dry or close to it, as well as backsweetened. I bottled 6 gals of this batch at .998 and it's pretty good on flavour already. 

But I have always used double the fruit. I should try using just the 6lbs to see what the difference is.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

Medic8106 said:


> Kinda disappointed...
> 
> My mom said it was "good". Dad and co-worker didn't like it. My co-worker thought it needed "more flavor".
> 
> I'm happy with the way it turned out for the cost and time involved. But then again, I would consider myself someone who would drink anything and wouldn't be picky on taste. I just want to make something good that others would like. Just starting out making wine, it really is a blow and makes me not want to give anything else I have made away for fear nobody will like it.
> 
> I plan on doing another batch, I'm going to double the fruit and use the full amount of lemon.



I would agree with Elmer and bkisel, taste is such a personal thing, you are not going to make a wine that everyone will like!! This is a "hobby"! And one that can be shared, but not everyone will enjoy the fruits of your labor! 
You enjoy the process and the results, and it is just a bonus if someone else enjoys your wine also. I do like my DB's with double the fruit. My first batch of DB I had someone say "it tasted like koolaide that wants to grow up". I did feel a little crushed at that moment! And then I found out she prefers a chardonnay, oaky and dry. So I gave her a bottle of my carrot wine, which is oaky and dry, and she was overjoyed! Did you ask your dad and friends what kind of wine they liked? I do have a tendency to quiz my friends, gently, as to their likes and dislikes, so I can know which wine they might like and which ones to save for myself! Enjoy!


----------



## Elmer

ckvchestnut;502147
But I have always used double the fruit. I should try using just the 6lbs to see what the difference is.[/QUOTE said:


> I have always used 1 lb per gallon of fruit.
> I have always wanted to double up the fruit, but either never had the extra fruit or room in the bucket.
> 
> one day.......


----------



## cheesehead

Has anyone tried the tropical version of Daves SP? I am about to embark on a version containing 12 lbs of strawberry-pineapple-peach-mango with the base of 24oz real lemon and the rest either pineapple or orange juice due to heartburn issues. I would also like to know if adding bananas for body and or raisins is a good idea? if so, how much of each goes into a 6 gal. batch? I was also told by others that my original DBSP (quad-berry version)using 6 lbs of fruit came out like a thin cool-aid with a heck of a kick!


----------



## ckvchestnut

cheesehead said:


> Has anyone tried the tropical version of Daves SP? I am about to embark on a version containing 12 lbs of strawberry-pineapple-peach-mango with the base of 24oz real lemon and the rest either pineapple or orange juice due to heartburn issues. I would also like to know if adding bananas for body and or raisins is a good idea? if so, how much of each goes into a 6 gal. batch? I was also told by others that my original DBSP (quad-berry version)using 6 lbs of fruit came out like a thin cool-aid with a heck of a kick!




Yes yes yes! To all of your questions. I did that exact recipe using the same fruit, and a large can of pineapple juice. As well as 1 banana per gallon. It's excellent! Very tropical flavour! Can't wait to enjoy it this summer in front of the firepit! Double the fruit as well.


----------



## cheesehead

thanx ckvchestnut for the info, cheers!!!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Most welcome!


----------



## bkisel

...what one tweak...

For those of you who've made DB batches according both to Dave's recipe and with your own tweak(s)/modification(s), what one tweak would you say improved the end product.

Thanx...


----------



## cheesehead

By the way , does it matter what type of yeast to use? i have one packet each of lalvin ec-1118 and premier Cuvee on hand


----------



## ckvchestnut

I couldn't say at all haven't tried the original recipe with triple fruit as I didn't have access to it. Nor have I tried with just the 6lbs - sorry I can't add my 2 cents!


----------



## ckvchestnut

No I don't think so... Just probably not a sensitive type may not be as tolerant with the lemon  I've used k1116 as well an also 1122 on my tropical version.


----------



## Winenoob66

see if this helps to answer what you think is the best yeast to use

http://winemakermag.com/component/com_yeasts/Itemid,165/view,chart/

with all the citrus though I would stick with the 1118


----------



## Elmer

bkisel said:


> ...what one tweak...
> 
> For those of you who've made DB batches according both to Dave's recipe and with your own tweak(s)/modification(s), what one tweak would you say improved the end product.
> 
> Thanx...




the only tweeks I do are:

make the ABV around 12 to 14%
add less sugar when back sweetening.
add slight oak!


----------



## JetJockey

Elmer,
What's your suggestion for adding medium toast french oak chips to blueberry DB? How much? Do you soak in water for 1 hour before adding? Can I add it to cleared/back sweetened/finished wine or is it too late? Any advice is appreciated!

I'm a noob when it comes to adding oak!


----------



## jojabri

OH SNAP-SICLES! I saw on this forum 
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/wine-rack-full-time-bombs-44259/ and got the wild hair to put some Quad-Berry DB in the Sodastream machine to carb it up! OH MY!!! I think I have fallen in love all over again!

As a note tho, be very careful as it bubbles A LOT, it takes a bit to slowly let off the gas before you unscrew to remove the bottle. Also as a warning: USE AT YOUR OWN RISK: As per Sodastream instructions using anything but water will void warranty. Worth it to me as the units themselves can be bought very inexpensively
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/wine-rack-full-time-bombs-44259/


----------



## bkisel

Wow! That does look enticing. All that is needed is it be chilled and a hot August day.


----------



## Elmer

JetJockey said:


> Elmer,
> What's your suggestion for adding medium toast french oak chips to blueberry DB? How much? Do you soak in water for 1 hour before adding? Can I add it to cleared/back sweetened/finished wine or is it too late? Any advice is appreciated!
> 
> I'm a noob when it comes to adding oak!




I am all for try oak as I love oak in almost every thing.
I added 1/4 cup o heavy pasted American oak to a 6 gallon batch, and am still thinking of adding more.

I would test the blueberry with oak. Separate out To a gallon jug and try an amount of oak and let it sit.
I would start with an ounce and increase from there if needed


I do this with a lot if all my wine batches (non kit wines).
This had allowed me to get an idea of wine with and without oak and make for a fun taste testing.

And by all means report back your result!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## cheesehead

Winenoob66 said:


> see if this helps to answer what you think is the best yeast to use
> 
> http://winemakermag.com/component/com_yeasts/Itemid,165/view,chart/
> 
> with all the citrus though I would stick with the 1118


thank you winenoob66 very informative !!! exactly what i need for future references


----------



## Winenoob66

your welcome


----------



## TableSeven

Bottled last night, looks beautiful, great color! Still no idea the taste, but hubs approved.


----------



## corinth

*Dragon Blood*

Well Dave, ya got me!
Along with my Welches experiments, I just gotta try your dragon blood wine?

I noticed in your original recipe, you used EC-118.
I also noticed that you mentioned that a* "higher temp would give DB sharper tasting and , more colorful wine"* and a 
_lower temp would give it a paler blush and more fruity aroma and smoother taste"_Since I will try two different batches , I was wondering 
1. what temp you would use the low range and what yeast do you think I should use?
2. what temp would be good for a high range and which yeast would be good?.
4. _Lastly, any fruit work better with high temp versus low temp?_
I will take all advice to heart!
Thank You
Corinth


----------



## corinth

*dragon blood wine*

A poem about dragons. the link is below
[I]Dream-Flight
by _SeHT

A falling star catches and holds my gaze,
And as I watch it fall, a shadow covers the moon's bright face,
And as it flies back, re-crossing that celestial grove,
I see two great dragons, conjoined in love.

I watch their joy until I see them no more.
And as I walk home I feel my spirits soar;
I climb the stairs and prepare for bed;
Settling for sleep, I follow where my thoughts are led.

Flapping my wings, I feel myself rise,
As I move through the air, a child of the skies;
I feel my love's gentle presence there by my side,
And I smile, and allow her to be my guide.

Further on we fly, sliding gracefully through the sky,
Over valleys so deep and mountains so high;
Bright stars are above us, beneath lies the earth,
As we fly through the air, our inheritance from birth.

And there in the air we nuzzle and kiss,
And we two become one and we know only bliss
As we glide on together, I hers and she mine;
There is only us; there is no more Time.

And she is beneath me, my mate and my love,
Our necks softly twining in the passion of love;
My seed bursts within her in a joyous gout of flame,
I cry aloud in my love, she calls out my name -

And the dream is over and I am awake,
And I rub my tired eyes and a deep breath I take.
It can never be. But how real it all seems
As we fly, two dragon lovers, so deep in my dreams.[/I]


http://www.draconic.com/poetry/

Corinth


----------



## Lornahdune

*Just what is the magic here?*

How's it look? My first Dragon Blood almost complete.You see it here cleared a week after sparklloid. I had a small taste with a bit of sugar added and it's wonderful. 
Now, the REAL question here. Just what is it, that makes Dragon's Blood and Skeeter Pee process so quickly? As I think of playing around with the recipe, I wonder what part of the process or ingredient is causing the must to ferment so fast, and make very drinkable wine in such a short time as opposed to a grape, mead or other fruit wine? Does anyone know this? Dave way back (I read in a thread somewhere) you said it was science....can you clarify?
-lauren


----------



## Rmstuck

Lornahdune said:


> How's it look? My first Dragon Blood almost complete.You see it here cleared a week after sparklloid. I had a small taste with a bit of sugar added and it's wonderful.
> Now, the REAL question here. Just what is it, that makes Dragon's Blood and Skeeter Pee process so quickly? As I think of playing around with the recipe, I wonder what part of the process or ingredient is causing the must to ferment so fast, and make very drinkable wine in such a short time as opposed to a grape, mead or other fruit wine? Does anyone know this? Dave way back (I read in a thread somewhere) you said it was science....can you clarify?
> -lauren



Do you mind me asking if you doubled the fruit? I made it with 6lbs of fruit and feel like its bland not much flavor at all. Just trying to figure out if I just don't like it , did something wrong or if it just needs time? I tried adding the juices from another 32oz of fruit and it had more flavor at first but then a couple days later it tasted bland again. So now it's just sitting in the carboy and I'm hoping it gets better.


----------



## Lornahdune

Rmstuck, I did the recipe pretty much exactly. I halved it for a 3 gallon - and I did not measure the fruit, but am pretty sure it was the correct amount. I deviated only on this:
no yeast energizer so I skipped it and kept my fingers crossed and I added 1/2 cup of raisins because I had some available and thought it might increase the "mouthfeel" of the finished product. 
-l


----------



## Rosa321

Well......I was going to wait until Easter to try another bottle of DB, BUT........The Wino in me just couldn't wait!!!! 

I opened a bottle Saturday and it was BETTER!! Much sweeter, less tart, less acidic! I'm hoping it's not a fluke. I opened a big bottle and once I drink it, I'll have to open another one. You know, to test it out and see if it's ALSO good. 
Just for science!!!!


----------



## Rmstuck

Rosa321 said:


> Well......I was going to wait until Easter to try another bottle of DB, BUT........The Wino in me just couldn't wait!!!!
> 
> I opened a bottle Saturday and it was BETTER!! Much sweeter, less tart, less acidic! I'm hoping it's not a fluke. I opened a big bottle and once I drink it, I'll have to open another one. You know, to test it out and see if it's ALSO good.
> Just for science!!!!



How long have you aged it?


----------



## Rosa321

About a month and a half or so.
Easter was going to be a little over 2 months.
Hopefully it keeps getting better and better.

My fear is that it was a fluke hahaha Hopefully ALL the bottles are getting better and not just that one.


----------



## Dale1978

Rmstuk - mine turned out sort of the same way - I call mine flat tasting - no body - I added some raisins to it and seems like it brought it to life - I am wondering if I did something wrong or wondering if it is that much different in everyones taste - mine needs some more time but adding the raisins really helped and brought it around - only deviation to Daves recipe is I cut mine to a one gallon batch and used 2 lbs of berries.


----------



## Rmstuck

Dale,

How many raisins did you add? Do you just toss them in the carboy? I'm willing to try anything because I don't want to dump it. Flat is exactly how I would describe it.


----------



## Dale1978

remember I did one gallon - I used 1 small box of golden raisins - it was like 6 small boxes packaged together - if you made a 6 gallon batch - I would recommend probably 1 pound of raisins - just dump in carboy - read some of Joeswine post - thinking outside of the box or when good wines go bad - that is where I got the idea from reading his post and lonestar lori - read them they are very good reads - like I said I was highly disappointed in mine and could not figure where I went wrong - I knew i followed the recipe to the T and did everything right - then I read some other post that people was disappointed in the taste - but the raisins really helped mine - hope it works with yours


----------



## wildvines

Opened a bottle of DB and took a SG. It was 1.000. Very strong. So did a trial and tasted pretty good at 1.010. But guess already to late on this batch since already bottled. It's a shame. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

BTW here is a - not very good - picture of two bottles of my finished DB. I'm calling it Lemon Berry Wine.


----------



## Julie

wildvines said:


> Opened a bottle of DB and took a SG. It was 1.000. Very strong. So did a trial and tasted pretty good at 1.010. But guess already to late on this batch since already bottled. It's a shame.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


 
Carlos, sweeten each bottle as you drink it.


----------



## wildvines

Will do just need to see how many tbsp of simple syrup per bottle to raise it


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----------



## wildvines

More trials. 


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----------



## dangerdave

Ok, back in the Lab with 30+ gallons of Chilean juice. Check the Danger's Lab thread to see how I'm handling them, if you like.

I see a lot of questions have been asked while I was out. I'm not sure which ones were fielded and which still need answering, so hit me with any questions again, if you please. I'll do my best to catch up.  I want everyone to make DB they like. There arwe alot of variations to choose from!


----------



## bkisel

Started a RJS WS Australia Cabernet Sauvigon yesterday but up next is another 6 gallons of DB. Costco had 4 pound bags of mixed "organic" berries with, I think it was, 6 varieties of berries. I seem also remember seeing bags of mixed tropical/passion fruit chunks. Do you think that combining the two and otherwise following the DB recipe is a good idea? Again, my wife and I are very pleased with how our first batch of DB turned out... so stick with the original or throw caution to the wind and go for a Passion Berry wine?

Thanx...


----------



## dangerdave

Are you kidding? Go for it, Bill! You might be missing out on your new favorate!

Is that Passion Berry, or Berry Passion?


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> Are you kidding? Go for it, Bill! You might be missing out on your new favorate!
> 
> Is that Passion Berry, or Berry Passion?



LOL

I was thinking if I just go with 2 bags of the 6 berry variety I could name the wine "Very Berry".


----------



## keahunter

I racked down and sweetened this weekend. I had a little unsweetened left in the gallon car boy so I chilled and added Splenda, it tasted really good. Has anyone ever back sweetened a whole batch with Splenda ?


----------



## datcv

I'm doing a raspberry passion right now. I just used a cup of fresh passion fruit juice in 1 gallon. It's in secondary now but I recently tasted and I think it's going to be pretty good!


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----------



## bkisel

datcv said:


> I'm doing a raspberry passion right now. I just used a cup of fresh passion fruit juice in 1 gallon. It's in secondary now but I recently tasted and I think it's going to be pretty good!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Sounds encouraging. Before my batch of DB I had only done kits and none of them - excuxe me - none of them that I tasted was anyting to write home about (or even post here



) until they both batch and bottled aged some. Coming out of secondary my DB also tasted good. The frugal in me just loves that I can now make a good tasting enjoyable to drink wine for ~$1.30-$1.50 a bottle (not counting glass, cork, shrink cap or label).


----------



## dangerdave

bkisel said:


> The frugal in me just loves that I can now make a good tasting enjoyable to drink wine for ~$1.30-$1.50 a bottle (not counting glass, cork, shrink cap or label).


 
Me, too, Bill. My goal was to make an inexpensive wine that was good enough to fulfill a wino's need while the good stuff aged. It also turned out to be cheap enough for bold experimentation and numerous variations, because if you messed it up there's not much money lost.

Now, there's people making it all over the world. Who'da thought?


----------



## tshank

Dave, your a genius! My first batch of DB came out perfect! I just racked your easy peesy lemon wine from primary and am thinking about flavoring options. Thanks for sharing these recipes!


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----------



## Julie

keahunter said:


> I racked down and sweetened this weekend. I had a little unsweetened left in the gallon car boy so I chilled and added Splenda, it tasted really good. Has anyone ever back sweetened a whole batch with Splenda ?



I believe there have been some who have used Splenda but wasn't happy with it. Not sure but I do know there are a lot who will sweeten with Slplenda when they open the bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

Excellent, tshank! I'm glad to hear it. Making smiling faces in Florida, huh?

As always, let's give a shout-out to Lon DePope and his original Skeeter Pee Recipe, the inspiration for all of this.

Thanks, Lon! Wish you'd come visit us more often.


----------



## Elmer

Blueberry + lemon juice + raspberry (not the issue) + 63 degree = SG from 1.080 to 1.040 in 10 days!!!!

This is going to be a low, slow ferment!


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----------



## ShawnDTurner

Elmer .... with this cool slow ferment you should get a more fruit forward wine. Cheers


----------



## Lornahdune

dangerdave said:


> Ok, back in the Lab with 30+ gallons of Chilean juice. Check the Danger's Lab thread to see how I'm handling them, if you like.
> 
> I see a lot of questions have been asked while I was out. I'm not sure which ones were fielded and which still need answering, so hit me with any questions again, if you please. I'll do my best to catch up.  I want everyone to make DB they like. There arwe alot of variations to choose from!



Yes Dave, I asked this whe you were off the forum, and no one replied so I'll try again:
Now, the REAL question here. Just what is it, that makes Dragon's Blood and Skeeter Pee process so quickly? As I think of playing around with the recipe, I wonder what part of the process or ingredient is causing the must to ferment so fast, and make very drinkable wine in such a short time as opposed to a grape, mead or other fruit wine? Does anyone know this? Dave way back (I read in a thread somewhere) you said it was science....can you clarify?
-lauren
************


----------



## dangerdave

I have speculated on this before. While I am certainly more of an artist than a scientist when it comes to wine making, the science of it all still fascinated me.

Ask yourself what the differnce is between DB and other fruit wines. Most fruit wine recipes call for fruit, perhaps some water and/or sugar, nutrient, energizer, tannin maybe, and yeast...and some form of acid, if required for balance. And I think _that_ is the kicker here. I think it has to do with the citric acid as opposed to tartaric or malic acid. Of course, the powerhouse yeast (EC-1118) can't hurt.


----------



## JDesCotes

I made my first dragons blood about two months ago using:

1 large pinapple
1 large honey dew
6 cup mango
3 over ripe bananas

With the original recipe I added 2 tsp pectic enzyme. 

I have racked this wine about 4 times and now nothing is settling and it has been 3 weeks since the last racking. My issue is that the wine still isn't as clear as my batches of Skeeterpee turn out. 

Here is a picture of it with my drill placed behind so you can see the clarity. 




And here is one straight on




What can I do to get this wine to clear?

I used sparkolloid for clearing originally just as I do with my Skeeterpee. 

Should I add more pectic enzyme or maybe dose again with sparkolloid?


----------



## cheesehead

bkisel said:


> Started a RJS WS Australia Cabernet Sauvigon yesterday but up next is another 6 gallons of DB. Costco had 4 pound bags of mixed "organic" berries with, I think it was, 6 varieties of berries. I seem also remember seeing bags of mixed tropical/passion fruit chunks. Do you think that combining the two and otherwise following the DB recipe is a good idea? Again, my wife and I are very pleased with how our first batch of DB turned out... so stick with the original or throw caution to the wind and go for a Passion Berry wine?
> 
> Thanx...


 you should go for it!!! i just transferred 7 gals of a pineapple-mango-peach-strawberry using a mixed variation of daves DB and pumpkinmans recipes- however, i doubled the fruit to 12 lbs and added an extra 2 1/2 lbs of strawberries and for the base i over did it with 109 oz of pineapple juice , 1/3 gal of O.J. and 24 oz of real lemon juice --OMG my house smells great!!!! and its already clearing nicely on day8


----------



## Julie

JDesCotes said:


> I made my first dragons blood about two months ago using:
> 
> 1 large pinapple
> 1 large honey dew
> 6 cup mango
> 3 over ripe bananas
> 
> With the original recipe I added 2 tsp pectic enzyme.
> 
> I have racked this wine about 4 times and now nothing is settling and it has been 3 weeks since the last racking. My issue is that the wine still isn't as clear as my batches of Skeeterpee turn out.
> 
> Here is a picture of it with my drill placed behind so you can see the clarity.
> 
> View attachment 14878
> 
> 
> And here is one straight on
> 
> View attachment 14879
> 
> 
> What can I do to get this wine to clear?
> 
> I used sparkolloid for clearing originally just as I do with my Skeeterpee.
> 
> Should I add more pectic enzyme or maybe dose again with sparkolloid?



I would add the pectic enzyme first.


----------



## JDesCotes

Julie said:


> I would add the pectic enzyme first.




How much pectic enzyme?


----------



## ckvchestnut

JDesCotes said:


> How much pectic enzyme?




Is that a 5 or 6 gallon batch? Did you use only 2 tsp total or on top of the original amount called for?


----------



## JDesCotes

Sorry I used 3 tsp in total all at the very beginning. It is 6 gallons.


----------



## ckvchestnut

It won't hurt to add more like Julie said. I would start with 2 tsps and work from there. Sometimes that type of fruit seems to take longer to clear.


----------



## dangerdave

I agree with Juile. Try the enzyme first. Pectin haze is the number one reason for cloudy wine.

I use three tsp for a six gallon batch. It will not hurt the wine, so no worries.


----------



## hawk022499

I am running low on the DB. Have a few btls left of the Original DB, some Lemon SP, and tropical DB versions. All went over very well with the friends and family.

Have a 6gal batch of DB ready to bottle and a Tropical clearing.

Just started 5gal each of Blueberry/POM and Apple/Cherry variations today! The blueberry smells out of this world. Can't wait for it to be done.

Once again, great recipe!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Wow those sound really good hawk! Let us know how the taste turns out!


----------



## ckvchestnut

I made a blueberry peach port style using the DB recipe... I may try it again as a normal lower abv wine it's spectacular the blueberry!


----------



## JDesCotes

dangerdave said:


> I agree with Juile. Try the enzyme first. Pectin haze is the number one reason for cloudy wine.
> 
> I use three tsp for a six gallon batch. It will not hurt the wine, so no worries.




Should I just sprinkle it in and stir?


----------



## Lornahdune

dangerdave said:


> I have speculated on this before. While I am certainly more of an artist than a scientist when it comes to wine making, the science of it all still fascinated me.
> 
> Ask yourself what the differnce is between DB and other fruit wines. Most fruit wine recipes call for fruit, perhaps some water and/or sugar, nutrient, energizer, tannin maybe, and yeast...and some form of acid, if required for balance. And I think _that_ is the kicker here. I think it has to do with the citric acid as opposed to tartaric or malic acid. Of course, the powerhouse yeast (EC-1118) can't hurt.



Yes, I was thinking the lemon/lime juice is the common denominator here. Skeeter-pee is also lemon/lime based. Perhaps that aids a quick ferment. Who knows. I plan to do some experimentation. Yes the art of it. It is like cooking, but with a very different palette. I wonder has anyone tried grapes and the lemon juice base for a grapey DB?


----------



## Julie

JDesCotes said:


> Should I just sprinkle it in and stir?



Sorry DesCotes for not getting back with you and thanks to Carolyn and Dave to responding. I would do like Dave says and use 3 tsp and normally I would stir it in.


----------



## Rosa321

JDesCotes said:


> Should I just sprinkle it in and stir?



I had all kinds of chunky stuff in my blueberry batch. I used the 3 tsp's of pectic enzyme and stirred it in. Then I warmed it up some. I used my brew belt, but others have used blankets. It was recommended to me in another thread that warming the wine would help the pectic enzyme/clearing.

Then I just waited and waited and waited! It seems to have done the trick!!
My blueberry is now clear and stabilized. Sunday I am planning to rack, sweeten, and bottle so it can age.

I am also quite happy with the Dragonette I am making. I added stabilizers and racked that to secondary this week. It smells and looks fabulous! I don't know if it's the doubled fruit up front, lack of lemon juice, or the fact that I was careful/smarter and made sure to measure the starting SG after the fruit was added so I would have a lower blood alcohol level in the end. But something has given it excellent color, smell, and flavor (yup....had some already! Who could wait? ) I'm excited for this one....


----------



## ckvchestnut

Nice Rosa!


----------



## bkisel

bkisel said:


> Started a RJS WS Australia Cabernet Sauvigon yesterday but up next is another 6 gallons of DB. Costco had 4 pound bags of mixed "organic" berries with, I think it was, 6 varieties of berries. I seem also remember seeing bags of mixed tropical/passion fruit chunks. Do you think that combining the two and otherwise following the DB recipe is a good idea? Again, my wife and I are very pleased with how our first batch of DB turned out... so stick with the original or throw caution to the wind and go for a Passion Berry wine?
> 
> Thanx...



Peach Berry DB?....

So wife and I are sitting on the sofa enjoying - no really, really enjoying - our second taste of DB (I've called it Lemon Berry wine). I run by my wife the idea for our next DB made with mixed berries and tropical/passion fruit chunks. Janet insisted she would not like it but asked... What about with peaches?

So, how would I go about making DB with a bit of peach flavor to the wine. Would I use the same recipe and simply add peaches? Would I subtract say three pounds of the berries from the recipe to be replaced by the peaches? I don't think you can get fresh peaches this time of the year so I guess it'd have to be frozen peaches or canned peaches, right?

By the end of this weekend I'll have given away away 6 bottles of my Lemon Berry wine (and probably another 5-6 when we visit family in PA next month) so my gut keeps telling me, because it came out so good, to make another batch of DB just like the first and leave the experimentation for a later time.


----------



## dangerdave

It certainly goes fast, don't it? I've spent several years trying to gauge production vs consumption. Between drinking and sharing, of I don't make a batch a month, I start to run low. I shift between a calm sense of contentment to a feeling of impending--ain't got no DB--blues.

Hey, that sounds like a good blue song in the works! Lol


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----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> It certainly goes fast, don't it? I've spent several years trying to gauge production vs consumption. Between drinking and sharing, of I don't make a batch a month, I start to run low. I shift between a calm sense of contentment to a feeling of impending--ain't got no DB--blues.
> 
> Hey, that sounds like a good blue song in the works! Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Do you have a certain number of family and friends to whom you give? Do you ever have folks hinting that they'd like another bottle or do they come right out and ask?

I'm guessing a good 10-15% of what I've been making gets given to others. With the DB being so good and and the same time relatively inexpensive compared to my kit wines I'll be giving away a lot more bottles. I'm in no way complaining, just the opposite, as I find it a joy and a blessing to be able to share with others.


----------



## beggarsu

*Typo in the recipe on page one?*

I am about to make a batch and suddenly I think there is something wrong here in the recipe on page one."

I started according to this in the first post in this thread.: 




> Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon (or larger) primary, add---in this order:
> 
> 1 bottle (48 oz each)



The PDF I downloaded also says use one bottle = 48 oz lemon juice.

So I used 48 oz lemon calculation but I wondered what was meant by "each" - I figured it meant the 48 oz comes in one bottle wherever the recipe maker bought it - for me it doesn't - it comes in 32 oz bottles in this city - so I have to measure it out using a measuring cup/litre measurement thing ..

Now I see in another post on the bentonite thread:



> 2 bottles (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): if you want to reduce the acid level use one bottle.



I had made some calculations to make a 15 litre batch (nearly 4 gallons) and that calculates about to 32 oz lemon juice for my 15 litre batch according to the recipe on page one. Now I see the second version says it is 2 bottles * but* you can reduce it.
But what is the standard recipe that most everyone on this thread is using - 48 oz or 96 oz? ie what amount is meant by that phrase on page one here?


It is all prepared ready to rock and ferment starting tomorrow as soon as the yeast starter is ready and the fruit thaws.
but now ....oops!
That's a big difference - either twice as much or half as much.

-fortunately I have not added the yeast starter yet 

What is the formula for a 6 gallon batch? 48 oz or 96 oz?

Thanks.


----------



## Winenoob66

Just go with the 32 oz. The recipe where it states 2 48oz bottles is an old recipe Dave cut it back to one due to heart burn issues

The fruit you can keep the same a lot of people like double the fruit in it better


----------



## ou8amaus

Someone may correct me, but I believe the original recipe called for 2x 48oz bottles, but that Dave had reduced it to 1x 48oz due to acid reflux issues. Personally I have made both versions and found them a bit acidic for my taste. I just made one with only half, 24oz, and I found that level to be my personal favorite. Mind you, all three versions were very tasty. Maybe in the middle of summer on the back deck the higher acid version will be more refreshing...


----------



## ckvchestnut

Ya I use far less lemon as well. My last one added no lemon (dragonette) I'm going to add lemon agin to this one but probably only 24oz. I'm starting 6 gals of quad berry (9lbs) and 1.5lbs of dark sweet cherries and my usual 3 over ripe bananas. I'm excited!! Lol maybe I should have at with more cherries - like 3lbs oh well! Plenty of time to make more DB!


----------



## beggarsu

Winenoob66 said:


> Just go with the 32 oz. The recipe where it states 2 48oz bottles is an old recipe Dave cut it back to one due to heart burn issues
> 
> The fruit you can keep the same a lot of people like double the fruit in it better



It seems that doubling the fruit would invalidate the recipe. It doesn't make sense - you don't improve the flavour of most everything by doubling the strength of the flavor eg coke, a steak, wine. It would seem to mean the original recipe is flawed if that much more flavour is needed to make it tasty.
Though I'm sure some people have flavour exception palates.
..
It also would mean doubling the cost and taking it from inexpensive to expensive. I might as well buy another kit or make another wine that would cost 1/3 the price from common supermarket ingredients or nothing when summer picking time comes . 
...
"oh BTW spend twice as much and make another trip?" No way! 
It's a one hour bicycle round trip to the supermarket plazas which is why I'm careful to first research the ingredients and make sure I've got everything beforehand.

... 
The normal cost of fruit packs here is twice or three times as much or more than what Dangerdave paid - must be a fruit belt there!! 
But I got them on sale about same price as Dangerdave and there may be a continuing supply like that. or even a brand "President's Choice" "Four Berry Mix" (plus some other interesting high quality freezer packs) - standard price - $3.99 per 600 gm = 18.60 pounds unit cost for a 6 gallon batch ) which is ongoing doable even without occasional sales . (Have to check this again.)


I don't have access to big box discount supermarkets - might be better shopping there in the capitol but I go there so seldom and don't know the stores.
. 
I'll report in a little while with pics on the fruit packs I bought - basically I bought 6 times 600 gm fruit packs which make s 7.92 pounds.

Therefore according to the recipe I decided to make 2 times 15 liter (3.96 gallons, total = 7.92 Gallons DB) if that first page recipe is valid. I got many one gallon jugs and 3 litre jugs to use as carboys and my other 2 carboys are in use - got a big project going here - 210 + bottles summer wine before July 1st - got a goal!! 

Thanks _ou8amaus_ and _ckvchestnut_ - yeah I will play it like that.
...
The lemon being 96 oz instead of 48 oz per 6 gals (22.71) doesn't make sense to me not just for acid but for flavour balance - 96 oz is full strength lemonade even before wine and could be full strength lemon wine it seems you add another strength of flavour you have to subtract some of the other.. I will use the I bottle recipe 48 oz for 22.71 litres - adjusted.


----------



## jojabri

I can't speak for Dave, as he is the creator, but I believe the original recipe is a stand on its own recipe. 

Whether or not it was intended for so many variation to pop up, they have, and Dave has been awesome enough to share those as well. 

As with any thing, you eat or drink, personal preference is key. Some may like if better with 1lb fruit per gallon, others may prefer doubled. In any key the basic recipe and method leaves open for a world of variation. I can't say that I've even made two identical batches, but they have all been good. 

So to each their own. Its your wine, do with it what you will. Stick to the original, or change it up some. That's another one of the wonders of DB.


----------



## corinth

*dragon blood wine*

My next batch, I will probably add a bit more fruit. My wife likes wine with a fruity aroma and slightly sweet. that being said, I have one batch which is clearing that I have not back sweetened yet.

will adding a pure juice concentrate as a back sweetener work OK? My sons are into very healthy juice so they bought me some juice concentrate from one of their health food stores.
Corinth
thank you


----------



## jojabri

corinth said:


> My next batch, I will probably add a bit more fruit. My wife likes wine with a fruity aroma and slightly sweet. that being said, I have one batch which is clearing that I have not back sweetened yet.
> 
> will adding a pure juice concentrate as a back sweetener work OK? My sons are into very healthy juice so they bought me some juice concentrate from one of their health food stores.
> Corinth
> thank you



I've used concentrate, a mix of concentrate and sugar mixed, and simple syrup. Just try not to add so much liquid that it will knock down your abv. I find using a concentrate can go a long way in adding a bit more mouth feel and flavor.


----------



## beggarsu

jojabri said:


> I can't speak for Dave, as he is the creator, but I believe the original recipe is a stand on its own recipe.
> 
> Whether or not it was intended for so many variation to pop up, they have, and Dave has been awesome enough to share those as well.
> 
> As with any thing, you eat or drink, personal preference is key. Some may like if better with 1lb fruit per gallon, others may prefer doubled. In any key the basic recipe and method leaves open for a world of variation. I can't say that I've even made two identical batches, but they have all been good.
> 
> So to each their own. Its your wine, do with it what you will. Stick to the original, or change it up some. That's another one of the wonders of DB.



Yeah, I figured that part out on my own. 
...
The question I asked is what is the actual recipe on page one here Dangerdave's actual recipe supposed to be because a phrase in it is not clear English.
The idea of following someone's actual recipe is to give me a benchmark and save me some months or repetitive batches of testing.


----------



## bkisel

jojabri said:


> I can't speak for Dave, as he is the creator, but I believe the original recipe is a stand on its own recipe.
> 
> *Whether or not it was intended for so many variation to pop up, they have, and Dave has been awesome enough to share those as well. *
> 
> As with any thing, you eat or drink, personal preference is key. Some may like if better with 1lb fruit per gallon, others may prefer doubled. In any key the basic recipe and method leaves open for a world of variation. I can't say that I've even made two identical batches, but they have all been good.
> 
> So to each their own. Its your wine, do with it what you will. Stick to the original, or change it up some. That's another one of the wonders of DB.



I think it may well have been intended for many variations. [What say you Dave?] This is a copy and paste from Dave's DB recipe notes...

SO MANY VARIATIONS!
Any kind of fruit you can imagine may be substituted for the triple berries in the above recipe. Use the exact same procedure, just use different fruit in the bag. I personally have made blueberry, blackberry, strawberry, raspberry, and a delightful tropical blend using pineapple/mango/peach/strawberry. Other wine makers have had success with a quad-berry blend (blueberry/blackberry/raspberry/strawberry), a tropical blend using pineapple juice instead of lemon, and even cherry-lime (with lime juice). Fruit purees and fruit wine bases abound on the market. Try oak and/or raisins in the primary or secondary. The list of possibilities is endless. Use your imagination. Pick your favorite fruit, and make a Dragon Blood version of your own. Try raisins, spices, oak, or extracts. Give it a catchy name, and make this recipe yours!


----------



## dangerdave

Beggarsu, I apprieciate all your questions, but I think you might be over-thinking this a bit. Just for clarification, I refered to the "original recipe" in some of my older posts, I'm actually now refering to as the "current recipe"---if that makes any sense at all. The current/original recipe calls for 48oz of lemon juice and six pounds of fruit for a six gallon batch. The first batch I ever made used 98oz (just like Skeeter Pee), but I found that too acidic (though very good) for my liking. It was not intended---at first---for modification. I hadn't made enough wine back then to be confident in changing recipes very much. Through the invaluable help, recommendations, comments, and suggestions from the wonderful wine makers in this forum, many different variations and tweeks came to light. "Blanace" is a matter of personal taste. My suggestion for everyone now who is new to this recipe is to make the current recipe as is, so you can form a baseline, then tweek it to your liking in future batches. The next time I update the pdf file, I'll add that as a final note.

Dragon Blood boils down to just a simple blush fruit wine recipe. Use lemon juice if you want---or none. Use the triple berry fruit---or anything else you can imagine. Double the fruit if you like. Start with the specified starting SG---or bump it up for an added kick. Back sweeten---or not---with whatever you can come up with: sugar, concentrate, fruit, etc. It just turned out to be more versitile than I could ever have imagined. This is really not new information for old winos, it's just compiled comprehensibly for newer wine makers.

I hope that explains things a little better.


----------



## calvin

Anyone try sweetening there dragon blood with Splenda or other no calorie sweetener to make a "diet dragon blood". I've noticed since I've been drinking a lot more wine I've been packing on pounds. And I sure as hell don't want to drink less wine. 


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----------



## Julie

calvin said:


> Anyone try sweetening there dragon blood with Splenda or other no calorie sweetener to make a "diet dragon blood". I've noticed since I've been drinking a lot more wine I've been packing on pounds. And I sure as hell don't want to drink less wine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I think the artificial sweeteners was giving off an off taste, I can't be sure of that but I know there have been members who bottle their wines dry and just sweeten with Splenda as they open the bottle.


----------



## bkisel

calvin said:


> Anyone try sweetening there dragon blood with Splenda or other no calorie sweetener to make a "diet dragon blood". I've noticed since I've been drinking a lot more wine I've been packing on pounds. And I sure as hell don't want to drink less wine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Eat less, exercise more and sweeten your DB with sugar.


----------



## calvin

Thanks Julie and bkisel. That's what I figured everyone on here would say. But I still had to ask


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----------



## jojabri

calvin said:


> Anyone try sweetening there dragon blood with Splenda or other no calorie sweetener to make a "diet dragon blood". I've noticed since I've been drinking a lot more wine I've been packing on pounds. And I sure as hell don't want to drink less wine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Hrm, well, tell yah what. I have a 18 gal batch of blackberry db that will be going to demijohn and carboys tomorrow. I'll make a 1 gal experiment using Splena when I back sweeten. I don't mind playing guinea pig.


----------



## calvin

Cool. Let us know how it turns out please


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----------



## beggarsu

dangerdave said:


> Beggarsu, I apprieciate all your questions, but I think you might be over-thinking this a bit.
> .



Actually, I just call it thinking and it serves me quite well. 
..
In this case I have used thinking to try to clarify what is the meaning of the ambiguous phrase _"1 bottle (48 oz each)"_ can mean in your recipe on page one as the word "each" refers to more than one of the item quantified but the phrase starts with the numeral one.
You have clarified that it actually means "one" and I assume the word "each" was left in by accident from a previous version of the recipe..

Thank-you.


----------



## datcv

I opened a bottle of my DB trashcan wine last night. Again, the main difference was that I added a bag of leftover apple cores from cider making to the bucket, as well as a couple of bags of frozen fruit leftover like pineapple and mango. I don't think that I got much apple flavor into it just because I didn't put enough pectic enzyme in. That said, it tastes pretty damn good.


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----------



## fabrictodyefor

JetJockey said:


> I've just finished my Blueberry DB and was doing some back sweetening tests for preferred SG.
> 
> 
> I tasted it throughout the process and now the final SG 1.00 wine as well as the batch at SG 1.01 has an indescribable off taste . The taste has been there all along. The carboys were very full, so it shouldn't be oxidation. My rackings were done by vacuum.
> 
> Is this just what blueberry tastes like or could freezer burn affect the taste. Is having frozen berries for 7 months too long?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated! The taste isn't chemical, metallic, moldy, or anything else I can describe. I can obviously taste the higher alcohol, but there is another off taste.



I made a straight blueberry DB, started on 3/2 using 6 qts Knudson blueberry juice and 9 lbs of fresh, then frozen blueberries, then following the DB recipe. The only addition was campden tablets, as I was unsure because these were fresh blueberries. My starting sg was 1.078, ending sg was 0.992. This was a slower ferment, but racked to a carboy on 3/11. I haven't added the sparkaloid or potassiums. And thought to taste it last night...and it has an "off" taste! The "off" is more and "off" scent.... My car boy, too was full. I've made several DB's and have loved them all, and was disappointed with the blueberry. Has your "off" flavor tapered off JetJockey?


----------



## ckvchestnut

calvin said:


> Thanks Julie and bkisel. That's what I figured everyone on here would say. But I still had to ask
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




You could try using pure Stevia extract I never ever use Splenda because I can't stand it's sickening fake sweet taste. It's too chemically for me. I haven't tried using the stevia to backsweeten an entire batch but I have used it to sweet wine in the glass and it works out well.


----------



## jojabri

Anyone do a Banana DB? Meijer has them on sale 38cents per lb and my "Big Blue" primaries will be empty by Friday, so it'd be a good time to buy IMHO. Even if there's not a possibility of it, I'll try a different recipe.

I have a feeling I'll be going all kooky in the kitchen Gwen Stefani Style: This #$%^ is BANANAS B-A-N-A-N-A-S!:


----------



## dangerdave

Are gonna sing that song everytime you stir it, Gina? LOL!

Never done a straight banana. Added some bananas, yes, but never _only_ bananas.


----------



## jojabri

dangerdave said:


> Are gonna sing that song everytime you stir it, Gina? LOL!
> 
> Never done a straight banana. Added some bananas, yes, but never _only_ bananas.



Prolly Dave! I am a karaoke Jockey/Junkie from way back! And I will defo be singing it and thinking about you when I'm bag squeezing. ROFLMBO!

Hrm songs about squeezing to sing while squeezing... Soul To Squeeze (Red Hot Chilli Peppers) or Squeezebox (The Who)

Current batch is a 3x batch that I sing: "Whao-oh black berry (bambalamba) Whao-oh black berry (bambalamba)"


----------



## calvin

I was bored at work today and made a spreadsheet to figure out the exact cost of making a batch of Dragon Blood per Dave's recipe. enjoy 

View attachment cost workout.pdf


----------



## bkisel

calvin said:


> I was bored at work today and made a spreadsheet to figure out the exact cost of making a batch of Dragon Blood per Dave's recipe. enjoy



Thank you so much! Your figure is less than my in my head calculation of ~$3.00 a bottle - counting bottles and corks but not counting labels or shrink wrap. 

My corks are costing me 30 cents apiece. Somewhere down the line I need to spring for a 1K count in order to get that cost down. 

I'm pretty much set with dark bottles but still find myself having to buy clear bottles every so often.


----------



## Elmer

calvin said:


> I was bored at work today and made a spreadsheet to figure out the exact cost of making a batch of Dragon Blood per Dave's recipe. enjoy



That is great, shows how cost effective it is.

I am also going to need you to convert it to an excel so I can change the variables

"Ah, ah, I almost forgot... I'm also going to need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. We, uhhh, lost some people this week and we sorta need to play catch-up. Mmmmmkay? Thaaaaaanks."


----------



## jojabri

calvin said:


> I was bored at work today and made a spreadsheet to figure out the exact cost of making a batch of Dragon Blood per Dave's recipe. enjoy



Inspired by yours I decided to make one up too! $1.03 base/$2.31 for all the extras per bottle! WOW! I did factor in my local tax too. Bear in mind that I shop at GFS and things are cheaper in bulk.

I did notice. Calvin, that you calculated PVC caps at $.90, but the math matched up in the end anyway.

PDF is at the bottom.

In Excel, I poked in $1.00 per lb on strawberries (that sale I caught a few weeks back) and was shocked to see it base price was $.65 per bottle... Yep that's how I roll Chi Pass Style!




Elmer said:


> That is great, shows how cost effective it is.
> 
> I am also going to need you to convert it to an excel so I can change the variables
> 
> "Ah, ah, I almost forgot... I'm also going to need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. We, uhhh, lost some people this week and we sorta need to play catch-up. Mmmmmkay? Thaaaaaanks."



I have an .xls file if you want it Elmer. PM me your email addy 

View attachment db cost breakdown.pdf


----------



## PAFruitWines

im thinking of doing a cherry lime DB. tried to read thru this thread for info but gave up after page 30. im happy with 1 lb per gal triple berry. would 1lb per gal of cherries give similar fruit flavor? Costco has 6lb pitted, frozen sweet cherries for about $14.

thanks!


----------



## calvin

That was supposed to be $.09 each. Lol

Elmer I can email you my spreadsheet too if you get me your address 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## PoppaCork

jojabri said:


> Anyone do a Banana DB? Meijer has them on sale 38cents per lb and my "Big Blue" primaries will be empty by Friday, so it'd be a good time to buy IMHO. Even if there's not a possibility of it, I'll try a different recipe.
> 
> I have a feeling I'll be going all kooky in the kitchen Gwen Stefani Style: This #$%^ is BANANAS B-A-N-A-N-A-S!:



I had to try it. But I did it Dragonette style.(no lemon juice, used acid blend instead)
I pitched the yeast to a batch Sunday afternoon.(4/05) 
I just took the photo, I should have taken a picture before I punched the top down about an hour ago. Make sure you have lots of head space, this stuff foams up a lot!(I did use more banana's than the recipe calls for) 
It sure smells great when I open the door to the basement!


----------



## dangerdave

PAFruitWines said:


> im thinking of doing a cherry lime DB. tried to read thru this thread for info but gave up after page 30. im happy with 1 lb per gal triple berry. would 1lb per gal of cherries give similar fruit flavor? Costco has 6lb pitted, frozen sweet cherries for about $14.
> 
> thanks!


 
Cherreis are another pain in my backside. Hard to get the nice cherry flavor you're looing for. I'd double the amount for this one. I made a cheery/lemon several years ago with just six pounds of the dark sweet cherries and ended up adding some flavoring to bring up the cherry.

Good luck!


----------



## Fog

I've had good luck using Tart Cherries instead of the Sweet ones. Also if you throw a Vanilla bean in a couple of weeks before you bottle you get a nice Cherry/ Vanilla flavor.

Rob


----------



## jojabri

PoppaCork said:


> I had to try it. But I did it Dragonette style.(no lemon juice, used acid blend instead)
> I pitched the yeast to a batch Sunday afternoon.(4/05)
> I just took the photo, I should have taken a picture before I punched the top down about an hour ago. Make sure you have lots of head space, this stuff foams up a lot!(I did use more banana's than the recipe calls for)
> It sure smells great when I open the door to the basement!



OOOh! Keep us updated! Hopefully I'll be starting mine up Saturday or Sunday!


----------



## tmmii

Bagging it right now, kitchen is in disarray, so my bedroom has evolved into another wine making area.... 


Stuff is delicious. I think I will start another batch as soon as the kitchen is ready, maybe some extra raspberries this time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

Went with my wife this morning to Costco. I picked up four three pound bags of mixed frozen berries that were on sale. $9.99 US marked on sale @ $7.99. Product is Sunrise Growers Antioxidant Blend - strawberries, blueberries, cranberries, raspberries and cherries.

Maybe had I read the previous posts concerning cherries I wouldn't have gotten this blend but I'm not too concerned seeing how the cherries are likely not more than 20% of the mix.

Maybe I'll name my next DB batch "Lemon Berry Five".


----------



## tmmii

Calling this stuff triple threat. It's going to be early bed time tonight! 



Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## ou8amaus

tmmii said:


> Bagging it right now, kitchen is in disarray, so my bedroom has evolved into another wine making area.... View attachment 15025
> 
> 
> Stuff is delicious. I think I will start another batch as soon as the kitchen is ready, maybe some extra raspberries this time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Do you re-use plastic bags from kits or are you buying them new? If re-using you just sanitize them and go? Do you gave a tap to put on the bag? This is a brilliant idea, especially for young wines like db...


----------



## jojabri

ou8amaus said:


> Do you re-use plastic bags from kits or are you buying them new? If re-using you just sanitize them and go? Do you gave a tap to put on the bag? This is a brilliant idea, especially for young wines like db...



I might get a lashing for this but I reuse Franzia bags for about 1/3 of my DBs, and other quick drinkers. As soon as you empty is, pop out the spigot soap and water rinse (thoroughly!) dump out water, throw some sanitizer in it, replace spigot, shake the crap out of it, then let some oxygen out. Store til it's time to fill again. When it is, take the spigot off, dump sanitizer, dry and fill. You just have to be sure to burp the bag well before you put it up to get rid of excess oxygen.

Okay, let the tongue lashing begin.


----------



## calvin

Omg I can't believe you would reuse franzia bags. WTH. 

Just kidding. That actually sounds like a great idea!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## roger80465

Actually, I have tried that on some early drinking 'table' red wines. My experience has been less than satisfactory. All the attempts resulted in severely degraded wine and one batch was fully dumped down the drain. DB might work cuz you are probably drinking it within 6-8 weeks. Even aging for 3 months was a major disappointment. Seemed like such a brilliant idea at the time, too.


----------



## Davolous

Just about finished my first batch of Dragon Blood. By finished I mean via drinking and sharing with friends and family.

I also preordered a case of $1 - 12oz. Bags of frozen mixed fruit at my local dollar store, for my next two batches.

Thanks Dave for sharing the recipe it has been a huge hit in my neck of the woods.


----------



## Rosa321

Starting to see the magic!!!!
My original DB gets better every time I drink it, and I just bottled some blueberry tonight. The blueberry was surprisingly delicious despite everyone's.remarks and my own initial tasting. I added a little extra sugar To compensate for any lemon juice taste, but really there wasn't much. Excited for Summer drinking by the pool!!!!


----------



## ou8amaus

jojabri said:


> I might get a lashing for this but I reuse Franzia bags for about 1/3 of my DBs, and other quick drinkers. As soon as you empty is, pop out the spigot soap and water rinse (thoroughly!) dump out water, throw some sanitizer in it, replace spigot, shake the crap out of it, then let some oxygen out. Store til it's time to fill again. When it is, take the spigot off, dump sanitizer, dry and fill. You just have to be sure to burp the bag well before you put it up to get rid of excess oxygen.
> 
> Okay, let the tongue lashing begin.



When you say spigot, are you referring to a "tap" or just a plug? Trying to understand how to get the wine out of the bag without subjecting it to air ... (great instructions btw, thanks!)


----------



## Davolous

bkisel said:


> Thank you so much! Your figure is less than my in my head calculation of ~$3.00 a bottle - counting bottles and corks but not counting labels or shrink wrap.
> 
> My corks are costing me 30 cents apiece. Somewhere down the line I need to spring for a 1K count in order to get that cost down.
> 
> I'm pretty much set with dark bottles but still find myself having to buy clear bottles every so often.



Now I feel cheap.

I am grabbing corks for under 15 cents, the specialty screw on wine bottle caps under 30 cents. Then I drink a couple bottles of wine with my friends for their empty bottles. One of my buddies works at a bar and grabs me all there empties. Most liter or less bottles with a plastic caps: fit the caps at my local wine shop. If I don't bust those caps I sanitize and reuse those too. If I buy new bottles I spend less then a buck. I print my labels on normal paper slice them out and reply the with acid free stick glue. The actual Dragons Blood costs me about 65 cents. I have already chatted about my dollar store berries, 25 Lbs of sugar from Sams, and Sam has the lemon juice for under $3.

Best case a bottle of DB is under a buck (worst case $2.00). Once upon a time I would spend that on a bottle of beer.


----------



## jojabri

ou8amaus said:


> When you say spigot, are you referring to a "tap" or just a plug? Trying to understand how to get the wine out of the bag without subjecting it to air ... (great instructions btw, thanks!)



The Franzia bags come with 5 Liters of wine in the bag and a spigot valve thingie to pour from. I put the bag back in the box, then the box in the fridge and drink as I wish. 







So long as you burp the excess air out of the bag there is very minimal oxygen inside when you store it or put in fridge. You wouldn't want to use this as any long term solution, but it's good to save space and money, and recycle.


----------



## Terri

Hi All,
We have not been on in a while, spring is so busy for us. We have bottled lots though, 2 batches of dragon blood one waiting to be sweetened and the same for Skeeter Pee. We have also made a Jet Blue, my husband added the oak chips and I sampled before it was sweetened, just added a little sugar to the glass and I do not like the taste, to me it tastes like a camp fire smells. Will this mellow?


----------



## tmmii

ou8amaus said:


> Do you re-use plastic bags from kits or are you buying them new? If re-using you just sanitize them and go? Do you gave a tap to put on the bag? This is a brilliant idea, especially for young wines like db...




First time I've done it, has a spout, was 8 bucks and holds 6+ gallons. For something like this that will be a lot easier than bottling, and it's about the same price as corks. I don't think they are reusable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

Davolous said:


> Now I feel cheap.
> 
> I am grabbing corks for under 15 cents, the specialty screw on wine bottle caps under 30 cents. Then I drink a couple bottles of wine with my friends for their empty bottles. One of my buddies works at a bar and grabs me all there empties. Most liter or less bottles with a plastic caps: fit the caps at my local wine shop. If I don't bust those caps I sanitize and reuse those too. If I buy new bottles I spend less then a buck. I print my labels on normal paper slice them out and reply the with acid free stick glue. The actual Dragons Blood costs me about 65 cents. I have already chatted about my dollar store berries, 25 Lbs of sugar from Sams, and Sam has the lemon juice for under $3.
> 
> Best case a bottle of DB is under a buck (worst case $2.00). Once upon a time I would spend that on a bottle of beer.



That's great! I can easily afford this hobby [even though I'll sometimes "complain" about being on a fixed income]; I just happen to be frugal. I think it is kind of a fun challenge to keep the cost down. Maybe half of the good taste of DB comes from its being so relatively inexpensive? 

For the future - whites, blushes and DB that are to stay in the house I can use dark glass to help keep the cost down. Some folks will hand me back the bottles when they've finished the wine I've given them BUT I WILL NEVER ASK FOR THE BOTTLE BACK. 

I'm pretty good about following the admonition of "give expecting nothing in return". But what a thrill and blessing it is when someone expresses a heart felt appreciation for what you've done for or given them.


----------



## bakervinyard

I blended 2 gallons of DB with a gallon of raspberry wine I had. Not bad if I do say myself. The other 4 gallons I have left is aging a little longer, will bottle for the holiday weekend in May. 
I'm frugel also. I've only bought 2 cases of new bottles since making wine for about 8 years. I'm the production manager for a function facility and I have all the bar tenders save the emptys for me. Yes I do reward them with wine. LOL, Bakervinyard


----------



## corinth

*Danger Dave's dgragon blood*

Hi this may be a silly question but based on your original recipe Dan, is there a typical range for ph and ta.

I have tied to read all the threads but I do not see any numbers?

Corinth


----------



## Rosa321

bakervinyard said:


> I blended 2 gallons of DB with a gallon of raspberry wine I had. Not bad if I do say myself. The other 4 gallons I have left is aging a little longer, will bottle for the holiday weekend in May.
> I'm frugel also. I've only bought 2 cases of new bottles since making wine for about 8 years. I'm the production manager for a function facility and I have all the bar tenders save the emptys for me. Yes I do reward them with wine. LOL, Bakervinyard



Was this raspberry wine you made, or bought?


----------



## dangerdave

My pH typically comes out just above 3.0.

The oak will mellow.

The DB will mysteriously disappear.

You'll need to make more.


----------



## calvin

Bottled my second batch last night as I was drinking the last glass from my first. I sure had to ration the last few bottles


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

calvin;
Bottled my second batch last night as I was drinking the last glass from my first. I sure had to ration the last few bottles[/QUOTE said:


> Looks really nice.
> 
> How long between starting batch one to starting batch two? I'm thinking about starting my second batch next week which would make it about a week shy of two months since my first batch. I think Dave posted here, in so many words, that he starts a batch a month.


----------



## bakervinyard

Rosa321 said:


> Was this raspberry wine you made, or bought?



Rosa321, This was a wine that I made last year. Only made 1 gallon it came out pretty good. I just didn't know what I was going to do with it. I decided to blend it with the DB because I wasn't crazy about it on its own. If you want the recipe P.M. me. Bakervinyard


----------



## ckvchestnut

jojabri said:


> Prolly Dave! I am a karaoke Jockey/Junkie from way back! And I will defo be singing it and thinking about you when I'm bag squeezing. ROFLMBO!
> 
> Hrm songs about squeezing to sing while squeezing... Soul To Squeeze (Red Hot Chilli Peppers) or Squeezebox (The Who)
> 
> Current batch is a 3x batch that I sing: "Whao-oh black berry (bambalamba) Whao-oh black berry (bambalamba)"




OMG tooooooo funny!


----------



## ckvchestnut

Just bottled 3 gals of dragonette and another 6 gals DB have been in the fermenter for 4 days now... It does mysteriously disappear! I can taste the cherries in this batch it's going to be good as usual!


----------



## Elmer

Just drank a bottle of DB I made last June, while watching the frozen four.

A little tart, the lemon and black berry has really come through over time In this batch!

Might have to dial that down moving forward 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## ckvchestnut

Good feedback Elmer! How much lemon did you use?


----------



## calvin

I started my first batch 1/30 bottled 2/24

Second batch started 3/18 bottled 4/11

That was cutting it pretty close. I might have to go with the 20 gal brute garbage can batches


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Elmer

ckvchestnut said:


> Good feedback Elmer! How much lemon did you use?




I always follow direction , so 48 Oz.
Which was never an issue when drinking early, but when it ages for a good period it changes a lot.
I am starting to think my SP ages better than my BD!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## jojabri

bkisel said:


> Looks really nice.
> 
> How long between starting batch one to starting batch two? I'm thinking about starting my second batch next week which would make it about a week shy of two months since my first batch. I think Dave posted here, in so many words, that he starts a batch a month.



As I'm still in the beginning stages of wine making, and yet to have a plentiful stock, plus I started several long termers, so I've been popping out the DB variants like gangbusters. Sadly, I haven't been able to do original yet, as where I find quad-berry much cheaper at GFS (which is conveniently located next door to my LHBS).

Between our consumption and getting tapped from so many others as their personal liquor store that I had to start a batch as soon as the primaries emptied. Recently, I upgraded to a 15 Gal demijohn so hopefully I can keep up with being generous to friends and family and start batches less frequently, while still building a stocked wine rack.

With summer just around the bend, there should be good sales on fruit. Hopefully, that will lend to experimenting and trying new variants.

This week most of my other wines should be ready to bottle and sit. So I'll have several open carboys. Blessing or curse?

I am thinking on experimenting with a dandelion db variant. What would that hurt? <3 how you can variate.


----------



## bkisel

jojabri said:


> As I'm still in the beginning stages of wine making, and yet to have a plentiful stock, plus I started several long termers, so I've been popping out the DB variants like gangbusters. Sadly, I haven't been able to do original yet, as where I find quad-berry much cheaper at GFS (which is conveniently located next door to my LHBS).
> 
> Between our consumption and getting tapped from so many others as their personal liquor store that I had to start a batch as soon as the primaries emptied. Recently, I upgraded to a 15 Gal demijohn so hopefully I can keep up with being generous to friends and family and start batches less frequently, while still building a stocked wine rack.
> 
> With summer just around the bend, there should be good sales on fruit. Hopefully, that will lend to experimenting and trying new variants.
> 
> This week most of my other wines should be ready to bottle and sit. So I'll have several open carboys. Blessing or curse?
> 
> I am thinking on experimenting with a dandelion db variant. What would that hurt? <3 how you can variate.



Hey, thanks for sharing.

After this Costco 5 berry batch which I may start as early as tomorrow my wife wants me to try a peach DB. I plan on doing the DB recipe, just replace the berries with ~ 6 pounds of peaches. Peaches should start showing up around here about July. After these two I'd like to try stuff like pineapple berry or orange berry vs. the lemon berry. Mainstay wine making will remain various RJS kit wines. Or... Will DB become the mainstay with kit wines sprinkled in?


----------



## willie

Day 47 of first batch of Original Dragon Blood. 
Ok Dave, here is a picture as you requested. It has been two more weeks sense wife and I tasted this wine and we are really impressed how the berry flavors have come to life. Absolutely delicious. We plan on bottling it this week.
This has been a great thread to read and I so enjoy all the nice folks posting here. Thanks Dave.
bkisel your idea of a peach does sound good and we do have some nice peach orchards outside of town here just to the North of us. July you say. Yep that sounds just about right. Will


----------



## JDesCotes

Question: I started a strawberry DB on Friday using the exact recipe with no alterations. Is it too late to add an additional 1/2 bottle of lemon juice? Of it isn't, how should I add it to not kill off the yeast. 

The fermentation is VERY active.


----------



## Winenoob66

Remember guys peaches don't carry to strong of flavor in wines so it might be a good idea to bump the amount up a little, also peaches drop a ton of lees. Just a little thought on the idea, but sounds like a good idea.


----------



## ckvchestnut

Elmer said:


> I always follow direction , so 48 Oz.
> Which was never an issue when drinking early, but when it ages for a good period it changes a lot.
> I am starting to think my SP ages better than my BD!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Perhaps less lemon juice? Just tasting some of my dragonette but I think I added extra acid blend than called for and it has a nice balance.


----------



## tmmii

Bearded Dragon approved. He had some licks Friday night, woke up Saturday am a little grumpy and agitated, but seemed curious enough to want some more tonight. 



Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## TableSeven

I am so excited to say I FINALLY CAN DRINK! That means I finally get to taste my DB that I bottled 3 weeks ago! I've given away quite a few bottles taste unknown and gotten compliments on it. Now I know. I have to say it is a bit like a sangria, now I used a quad berry, I find the blackberry flavor very prominent, but overall a very smooth drinker.


----------



## Davolous

bkisel said:


> That's great! I can easily afford this hobby [even though I'll sometimes "complain" about being on a fixed income]; I just happen to be frugal. I think it is kind of a fun challenge to keep the cost down. Maybe half of the good taste of DB comes from its being so relatively inexpensive?
> 
> For the future - whites, blushes and DB that are to stay in the house I can use dark glass to help keep the cost down. Some folks will hand me back the bottles when they've finished the wine I've given them BUT I WILL NEVER ASK FOR THE BOTTLE BACK.
> 
> I'm pretty good about following the admonition of "give expecting nothing in return". But what a thrill and blessing it is when someone expresses a heart felt appreciation for what you've done for or given them.



If I could afford this hobby I would make everything in a Blichmann Wine Easy and pour glasses of wine from small tapped french oak barrels.

I spend a ton on wine making equipment, but totally nerd out on how cheap I can make a bottle of wine that tastes great. My time in each bottle makes it uneconomical.


----------



## calvin

Davolous said:


> If I could afford this hobby I would make everything in a Blichmann Wine Easy and pour glasses of wine from small tapped french oak barrels.
> 
> I spend a ton on wine making equipment, but totally nerd out on how cheap I can make a bottle of wine that tastes great. My time in each bottle makes it uneconomical.



No offense but winemaking is a hobby and is to be enjoyed in ones "free time". The money invested in wine making equipment quickly recovered by the low cost of the wine being produced. Most of it will last a lifetime. If I ever decide to give up winemaking I could sell my equipment and recover most of my investment back. Sure I could spend extra hours at work and make enough money to buy all the wine I could ever want. But I enjoy making wine. To each his own


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## dangerdave

Have I mentioned lately how awesome I think you all are? Creative, industrious, resourceful, frugal. What a great group!

You are all great source of pride and encouragement to me!

I thank you all, from the bottom of my glass...I mean, _heart_!


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> Have I mentioned lately how awesome I think you all are? Creative, industrious, resourceful, frugal. What a great group!
> 
> You are all great source of pride and encouragement to me!
> 
> I thank you all, from the bottom of my glass...I mean, _heart_!



Sensei, it is we "grasshoppers" that ought to be paying homage to you.


----------



## wineforfun

JDesCotes said:


> Question: I started a strawberry DB on Friday using the exact recipe with no alterations. Is it too late to add an additional 1/2 bottle of lemon juice? Of it isn't, how should I add it to not kill off the yeast.
> 
> The fermentation is VERY active.



Not sure if you have done this or not, but it is ok to add that additional lemon juice.


----------



## reefman

Calvin,
Check your numbers again for PVC shrink caps. ​


----------



## JDesCotes

wineforfun said:


> Not sure if you have done this or not, but it is ok to add that additional lemon juice.




Thank you! I will add it tonight when press the fruit.


----------



## calvin

reefman said:


> Calvin,
> Check your numbers again for PVC shrink caps. ​



I saw that. Roughly $.09 each


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## calvin

reefman said:


> Calvin,
> Check your numbers again for PVC shrink caps. ​



I saw that. Roughly $.09 each


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## jkrug

My first batch of dragon blood. Light in body and taste. Hope it will Improve with a little bit of age. Made it for my wife so it is sweeter than I like. Started this late feb. I even did a fpac. Gonna try a straight blackberry and make it dry next batch. Start that this weekend at the latest.


----------



## vacuumpumpman

jkrug said:


> My first batch of dragon blood. Light in body and taste. Hope it will Improve with a little bit of age. Made it for my wife so it is sweeter than I like. Started this late feb. I even did a fpac. Gonna try a straight blackberry and make it dry next batch. Start that this weekend at the latest.



Looks very nice !!


----------



## cheesehead

Hello gang!! got a question regarding a batch of pineapple-mango-peach-strawberry with pineapple and orange juice base that isnt clearing as fast as i thought it should. I pitched the yeast on 3-29 -SG was 1.080 and on 4-2-14 sg was .990 racked , added k-meta and k-sorb. then sparkalloid per instructions. on 4-12 was still cloudy probably due to pectin haze, so i added more pectin enzyme, still no change, racked off lees on 4-14 tried a round of super kleer, doesnt look like any difference so my question is how many times can i add pectin enzyme and clearing agents before i trash this batch it was thoroughly degassed via all in one vacuum pump 2x so i can say with a degree of certainty that that wasnt the problem, any help here would be appreciated.


----------



## PoppaCork

cheesehead said:


> Hello gang!! got a question regarding a batch of pineapple-mango-peach-strawberry with pineapple and orange juice base that isnt clearing as fast as i thought it should. I pitched the yeast on 3-29 -SG was 1.080 and on 4-2-14 sg was .990 racked , added k-meta and k-sorb. then sparkalloid per instructions. on 4-12 was still cloudy probably due to pectin haze, so i added more pectin enzyme, still no change, racked off lees on 4-14 tried a round of super kleer, doesnt look like any difference so my question is how many times can i add pectin enzyme and clearing agents before i trash this batch it was thoroughly degassed via all in one vacuum pump 2x so i can say with a degree of certainty that that wasnt the problem, any help here would be appreciated.



For what it is worth, my batch of Mad Mango took approx. 2-1/2 weeks to clear using Super Kleer! 
I would be patient, it should clear.


----------



## Elmer

Week 3
SG 1.010

Almost there!


----------



## dangerdave

I agree with poppacork, cheesehead. Just let it sit. It will clear eventually.


----------



## cheesehead

dangerdave said:


> I agree with poppacork, cheesehead. Just let it sit. It will clear eventually.


thanx guys, patience is a virtue...... thats killing me! lol


----------



## bkisel

I started my second batch of DB this morning.

V
V
V
V
V

What? Must every message I post here be full of profundity and worthy of half a dozen likes?


----------



## ckvchestnut

Just a quick update on my dragonette! Cracked open a bottle that was bottled 2-3 weeks ago and it's quite nice. I think I posted before that I added a bit more acid blend to make up for no lemon and it's nicely balanced with a hint of tartness! 

Thanks again Dave for the awesome recipe!!


----------



## Winenoob66

ckvchestnut said:


> Just a quick update on my dragonette! Cracked open a bottle that was bottled 2-3 weeks ago and it's quite nice. I think I posted before that I added a bit more acid blend to make up for no lemon and it's nicely balanced with a hint of tartness!
> 
> Thanks again Dave for the awesome recipe!!



What size batch did you make and How much acid blend did you use I was asked to make a batch without the lemon. As my last batch I has some people that said it was way to tart for them. Before you ask I made a 5 gallon batch but used all ingredients (as in fruit and lemon) for a 6 gallon batch.


----------



## boozehound

Gonna start an all blueberry DB in the next couple days. Any insight of if I shud double recipe for fruit (6gal batch) and/or use acid blend instead of lemon juice?


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----------



## bkisel

boozehound said:


> Gonna start an all blueberry DB in the next couple days. Any insight of if I shud double recipe for fruit (6gal batch) and/or use acid blend instead of lemon juice?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I believe with the substitution of acid blend for lemon juice you're making what is being called "Dragonette" not DB. Maybe research Dragonette to get your answer?


----------



## Rosa321

boozehound said:


> Gonna start an all blueberry DB in the next couple days. Any insight of if I shud double recipe for fruit (6gal batch) and/or use acid blend instead of lemon juice?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I'm very happy with my all blueberry dragon blood!!!
I used the 48Oz of lemon juice and 9lbs of fruit. It tastes great. Almost has a merlot smell/taste.
But that's my opinion. 
I'm making a dragonette now with triple berry (strawberry, raspberry, and blackberry).
So I don't have a non lemon juice variety to compare tastes yet.


----------



## wineforfun

We tried a Dragonette version and did not like it at all. Now maybe it needed more acid blend but the final product was sort of flat. Since then it has all been made with either lemon or lime juice.


----------



## Elmer

Blue-razz is now at SG of .994 (3rd day)
But still has that fermation froth coating the top.
Still throwing bubbles like crazy!


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----------



## bkisel

Elmer said:


> Blue-razz is now at SG of .994 (3rd day)
> But still has that fermation froth coating the top.
> Still throwing bubbles like crazy!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Have you pulled the fruit out and put it under an air lock? Reason I ask is that it seems that I'd want the fruit in longer than 3 days even though SG is <1.000 and instructions would have you removing the fruit pack.


----------



## Elmer

bkisel said:


> Have you pulled the fruit out and put it under an air lock? Reason I ask is that it seems that I'd want the fruit in longer than 3 days even though SG is <1.000 and instructions would have you removing the fruit pack.




I squeezed the heck out of the bag, pulled the bag. Gave a stir, letting it sit until tonight (if I can get to racking)
The fruit was dried out and has been in the must for almost 3 weeks due to slow, slow ferm.
I don't think the fruit has much more to give!


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----------



## tmmii

Been sipping on mine over ice, made to the original recipe, not bad, I'll double the fruit on the next one though, I think this needs some more flavor. 

I do end up pretty hung over, not sure if it's from the ingredients or the drink just being so good while drunk to excess!


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----------



## wineforfun

Elmer said:


> I squeezed the heck out of the bag, pulled the bag. Gave a stir, letting it sit until tonight (if I can get to racking)
> The fruit was dried out and has been in the must for almost 3 weeks due to slow, slow ferm.
> I don't think the fruit has much more to give!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Ok, I just got this. You mean your SG has been at .994 for three days? I thought, along with I think bkisel, that you meant your start to finish ferment had been done in 3 days, therefore not giving your must much time with the fruit.


----------



## Rmstuck

Ok so I made the original recipe DB and I'm sorry to say but so far I'm not a fan. I tried adding raisins and lemon zest and I just can't get myself to like it. I was thinking about adding a raspberry extract to it to make it drinkable instead of pouring down the drain? I'm not giving up though last night I started the tropical DB and decided to use 14lbs of fruit I hoping this gives it more flavor.


----------



## wineforfun

Rmstuck said:


> Ok so I made the original recipe DB and I'm sorry to say but so far I'm not a fan. I tried adding raisins and lemon zest and I just can't get myself to like it. I was thinking about adding a raspberry extract to it to make it drinkable instead of pouring down the drain? I'm not giving up though last night I started the tropical DB and decided to use 14lbs of fruit I hoping this gives it more flavor.



You made it exactly as the recipe states? If so, give it a month or two in the bottle and it will be totally different. Fruit forward with a smaller bite from the lemon. I haven't heard of one person that made it like the recipe reads that didn't like it for what it is.


----------



## Rmstuck

wineforfun said:


> You made it exactly as the recipe states? If so, give it a month or two in the bottle and it will be totally different. Fruit forward with a smaller bite from the lemon. I haven't heard of one person that made it like the recipe reads that didn't like it for what it is.



Yes I made it exactly as the recipe states. I've had it finished in a carboy for a month. Maybe I'll give it awhile longer. Would bottling it be any different than leaving it in the carboy?i don't want to waste my time bottling it if I don't like it


----------



## wineforfun

Did you backsweeten it yet? If so, how much sugar did you use or what is the final SG?
And no, carboy or bottle would be about the same one month in.


----------



## dangerdave

Rmstuck said:


> Yes I made it exactly as the recipe states. I've had it finished in a carboy for a month. Maybe I'll give it awhile longer. Would bottling it be any different than leaving it in the carboy?i don't want to waste my time bottling it if I don't like it


 
Don't fret, Rmstuck. It's virtually impossible to make a wine recipe that _everyone_ will love. While this recipe has been very successful with most folks, it is not for everyone.

However, there are lots of different versions. Maybe you can find one you like.

Good luck!


----------



## TinyPirate

I've started a blackcurrant one of these! I'm only making a 5.6lt batch (the size of the carboys here in New Zealand that I have) so everything is scaled down in measurements - except the fruit (which instead of 700g I put in 2kg) and the pectin (which I added according to the weight of the fruit). I can't wait to see how it turns out!


----------



## fabrictodyefor

TinyPirate said:


> I've started a blackcurrant one of these! I'm only making a 5.6lt batch (the size of the carboys here in New Zealand that I have) so everything is scaled down in measurements - except the fruit (which instead of 700g I put in 2kg) and the pectin (which I added according to the weight of the fruit). I can't wait to see how it turns out!



now that sounds yummy! Wonder where I can get some blackcurrants???


----------



## dangerdave

TinyPirate said:


> I've started a blackcurrant one of these! I'm only making a 5.6lt batch (the size of the carboys here in New Zealand that I have) so everything is scaled down in measurements - except the fruit (which instead of 700g I put in 2kg) and the pectin (which I added according to the weight of the fruit). I can't wait to see how it turns out!


 
I love currants! They are not very popular here in the USA...it's an old story of misinformation and paranoia in the early years of our counrty. Embarrassing, really.

But I have used dried currants to flavor some of my red wines. Very good.

I'm glad you found a fruit you can use that you like. Keep us posted on the outcome. I'd be interested to try a batch myself.


----------



## Elmer

So I just racked my 6 gallon blue-rasp, and I nearly overflowed my 6 gallon carboy (6.5 really)

How did I gain almost 1/2 gallon of volume?
Does all the sediment from squeezing the berries add to the volume?

I know I did not mis-measure.
I added 48 oz of lemon, then filled to the 6 gallon line, which I have measured time and again.



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----------



## dangerdave

You get about half a gallon of juice from squeezing the fruit. Keep it on the side for topping up later.

Blue-raspberry. I gotta try that one, too!


----------



## bkisel

Elmer said:


> So I just racked my 6 gallon blue-rasp, and I nearly overflowed my 6 gallon carboy (6.5 really)
> 
> How did I gain almost 1/2 gallon of volume?
> Does all the sediment from squeezing the berries add to the volume?
> 
> I know I did not mis-measure.
> I added 48 oz of lemon, then filled to the 6 gallon line, which I have measured time and again.



Same with my first batch. Wound up discarding about .8-1L. 

I'm 6 days into my second batch so having learned from the first batch I cut back a bit on the water added. Stopped a bit shy of the fermentor's 6 gallon mark. Adding the berries pushed me over the line but I'm thinking when I rack I'll be back down pretty close to 6 gallons.


----------



## TinyPirate

dangerdave said:


> I love currants! They are not very popular here in the USA.




What is this strange story of currant hatred??

Ta for the encouragement. I am looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I am hoping for a good, strong currant flavor, but I figure I can f-pack it if at racking it seems light on taste. Well, that's the plan, anyway!

Question - the K-Met and K-Sorb step will stabilize the wine sufficient to allow the safe addition of the sugar? I figure so, but wanted to check. 

It is interesting that one stabilizes so soon in this recipe. I am used to other recipes where the wine is bulk aged unstabilized for a long time.


----------



## beggarsu

Making 2 times 4 gallon batches successively - two different brands/kinds of 4-berry packs.

For the first 4 gallon batch I squeezed the fruit in the muslin bag and ended up dumping the fruit in the mix on the last or second last day.

I just wanted every last bit - waste not, want not. I racked it into 3.2 litre glass jugs (as carboys) + some reserve with no problem - I developed a method for filtering out the gross less and stuff. Not a big deal. 

I just picked up a tip - I'll put a muslin bag over the end of the auto-siphon - I was thinking a wire mesh sphere - but I'll try the muslin - or maybe something like both together - something to hold the Muslin out like a small sphere..

Did the same thing with the second 4 gallon batch yesterday Squeezed it every day to get the juice then threw it in at the last to get every bit of flavour. 

I am about to rack it tonight.

It ferments fast and second batch was down to .989 to .990 SG.

The second batch got a slurry from the first - took off like a rocket within an hour or two made the yeast starter superfluous but I added it anyway.

After I put the slurry in I was surprised to see there had been dehydrated berries in it which rehydrated. 

I added yeast nutrient gradually over a few days rather than add it all at the beginning. Didn't bother with energizer. Worked well.


----------



## dangerdave

TinyPirate said:


> What is this strange story of currant hatred??


 
Ah, this is a story of greed and fear and misinformation. One web site describes the tale this way...

"Until April 2003, black currants had been referred to in the United States as the_ "forbidden fruit,"_ since farming bans in several states prevented it from being harvested. As a result, this once-popular berry, not readily available in the U.S. for the past 100 years, fell out of favor in American diets.
How did all of this controversy begin to brew around one innocent berry? In 1705, Lord Weymouth shipped U.S. white pine seedlings to England and, as the tree spread across Europe, blister rust, a disease affecting these pines, appeared in Germany. Unaware of the cause, the United States began re-importing European white pine seedlings, since U.S. forests were being depleted. Unfortunately, the white pine disease came with them.
Plant pathologists demonstrated that this tree disease, which allegedly threatened the U.S. timber industry, did not jump from white pine to white pine, but from white pine to black currant bush to white pine. By 1911, U.S. regulations were passed which led to the farming ban of this once popular berry. Though based on incomplete scientific knowledge of the disease, the ban still stands today in several states."


----------



## TinyPirate

That is the strangest thing I've heard today!


----------



## fabrictodyefor

That is a strange story! We had black currants growing up, my grandparents grew them back in IL. Maybe I'll have to look into growing some!


----------



## shrive22

I'm trying to make 6 gal of original recipe DB but I only have about 12 cups of sugar. Is there anything else I can use to boost sg? Tartaric acid? Citric?


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----------



## shrive22

I also have brown sugar and sugar in the raw. I just ran out of white sugar. 


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----------



## TinyPirate

just add the rest of the sugar after a trip to the shops!


----------



## shrive22

Should I add tannin, k meta, fruit now and just *** rest of sugar after I wait 24 hours to pitch yeast ?


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----------



## corinth

I just finished my first batch of Dragon Blood. Wow! I added some black currant concentrate it to the wine and then back sweetened it. all I can say is...[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr2PWgmCNTI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr2PWgmCNTI[/ame]

Another one bites the dust!
Coronth


----------



## TinyPirate

shrive22 said:


> Should I add tannin, k meta, fruit now and just *** rest of sugar after I wait 24 hours to pitch yeast ?



I'm no expert, but I would make it to the instructions (but short on sugar) and add the rest of the sugar as a liquid (as in, cook the sugar in a little water to turn it into a liquid) when you have it?


----------



## sour_grapes

I agree with Tiny Pirate -- you can get going with the recipe, using all ingredients except that you are low on sugar. The yeast will get started. Then, when you get more sugar add it. TinyPirate is suggesting you add this sugar in the form of a simple syrup, which seems like a fine idea to me.

In answer to your post #1610, no, only sugar should be used.


----------



## shrive22

Thanks sour_grapes. I added some 'sugar in the raw' which has some molasses in it. I hope that doesn't affect it too much


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----------



## calvin

sour_grapes said:


> In answer to your post #1610, no, only sugar should be used.



The sugar in the raw may give it some "funny flavors"




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----------



## shrive22

So far I've added 5lbs of white and 2 of raw. Sg is at 1.067 in going to add white to get to desired sg. Hopefully the small ratio doesn't produce too much of an off flavor. Next time I'll make sure to have enough on hand. 


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----------



## BernardSmith

fabrictodyefor said:


> That is a strange story! We had black currants growing up, my grandparents grew them back in IL. Maybe I'll have to look into growing some!



Strange perhaps but not really very unusual. I believe that gooseberries until very recently could not be planted in many states and my understanding is that in NY , for example I cannot grow many varieties of gooseberries because there is still legislation in force to prohibit such crops because they were viewed as harboring specific pests and diseases. I come from Scotland and we grew up eating and cooking with all kinds of currants and berries that are incredibly hard to find over here... 

And yet....... black currant jam is sold in our local supermarket under what I thought was a national brand name


----------



## TinyPirate

My blackcurrant DB. Had to rack it today after moving it to a carboy yesterday as there was a ton of sediment (didn't bag the berries). Ahh well, topped it off with the left overs - still have a pint left. Tomorrow I will add some bentonite because why not?


----------



## TinyPirate

Oops! Picture! Includes moderately helpful 4yr old!


----------



## jojabri

How cute! I have a couple of moderately helpful short stacks too


----------



## beggarsu

TinyPirate said:


> Oops! Picture! Includes moderately helpful 4yr old!
> 
> View attachment 15337



Yep cute guy!

What size is that carboy? 4-5 litres?


----------



## Rosa321

TinyPirate said:


> Oops! Picture! Includes moderately helpful 4yr old!
> 
> View attachment 15337



Awwwww......... definitely keep that moderately helpful four year old around! Mine turned into a very strong 16 year old that can lift full glass carboys and put them on the counter!


----------



## TinyPirate

beggarsu said:


> Yep cute guy!
> 
> 
> 
> What size is that carboy? 4-5 litres?




Yeah, he insisted in being in the photo, of course! And that is about 5.6lt when filled to the top of the shoulder. But I have a 23lt on the way for some feijoa wine making soon!


----------



## cmason1957

I bottled a blue blood about a month ago. Chilled one down and am trading it today. I am almost surprised. Very blueberry trading, with just a hint of lemon. Very tasty. I did use more than normal amount of berries. Probably 30 lbs for 6 gallons.


----------



## bkisel

cmason1957 said:


> I bottled a blue blood about a month ago. Chilled one down and am trading it today. I am almost surprised. Very blueberry trading, with just a hint of lemon. Very tasty. I did use more than normal amount of berries. Probably 30 lbs for 6 gallons.



"trading"? I don't understand.

Thanx...


----------



## beggarsu

TinyPirate said:


> Yeah, he insisted in being in the photo, of course! And that is about 5.6lt when filled to the top of the shoulder. But I have a 23lt on the way for some feijoa wine making soon!




Yeah, There were three kids hanging around here last summer - they got underfoot wanting to "help" me with all my repairs - lol.
I wonder where that goes when they get older?

Ok so a 5.6 l = 1.5 gal US carboy. A good size for small batches. 

Didn't see that before thanks.


In the smaller department, I got 3.2 and 4.2 litre wine jugs


----------



## cmason1957

bkisel said:


> "trading"? I don't understand.
> 
> Thanx...



Sorry, I was drinking a bit. Tasting. 


I hate when that happens.


----------



## sour_grapes

cmason1957 said:


> Sorry, I was drinking a bit. Tasting.
> 
> 
> I hate when that happens.



You hate when _drinking_ happens? To me, that is one of the best parts!


----------



## cmason1957

No, no, no. I love the drinking part. It is the best part of winemaking. I hate making misteaks, just because I have been drinking.


----------



## sour_grapes

I know, I was just teasing. Sorry I didn't use an emoticon.



cmason1957 said:


> No, no, no. I love the drinking part. It is the best part of winemaking. I hate making *misteaks*, just because I have been drinking.



Hmmm, how much have you had tonight, anyway?


----------



## cmason1957

I didn't take it poorly. Don't worry. And I just had the one bottle, plus a few samples.


----------



## shrive22

Question for all the veterans. I am making DB. 60 oz lemon juice, 6 lb triple berry blend and 20 c sugar. Sg 1.072. Pitched a suspect year a few days ago. Initially I put in a packet of 1118 that was shipped to me but I didn't open the package for four days. So not sure if yeast was bad. It didn't look like any fermentation as of today at about noon so I put another packet of 1118 from lhbs, this time rehydrated in 105 degree f water. As of now still now signs of ferm. Any ideas? I'm going to check sg again tomorrow. 


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----------



## shrive22

*Pitched a suspect packet of yeast a few days ago


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----------



## cheesehead

shrive22 said:


> *Pitched a suspect packet of yeast a few days ago
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


Shrive22--what is your starting temperature at? Ive had issues with that type of yeast when the temp is too low, ( below 68 degrees F) try warming the carboy up with a heat belt or electric pad if its too cold and see if that helps. Also, you may need to add a bit more yeast nutrient or yeast energizer if the temp thing does not work.


----------



## TinyPirate

Dear DB diary: Didn't add any bentonite in the primary of mine so am adding tonight along with k-meta and k-sorb (SG stable at 0.992) and then degas time. A fun evening planned =)

Edit: I went ahead and did this. I was still frothing bubbles 30 minutes after I started and gave up at that point. It will be what it will be!


----------



## shrive22

cheesehead said:


> Shrive22--what is your starting temperature at? Ive had issues with that type of yeast when the temp is too low, ( below 68 degrees F) try warming the carboy up with a heat belt or electric pad if its too cold and see if that helps. Also, you may need to add a bit more yeast nutrient or yeast energizer if the temp thing does not work.




Cheesehead, that may be my problem. I think the temps are in mid 60s. I'm going to check tonight after work and take sg reading. Thanks. 


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----------



## beggarsu

shrive22 said:


> Question for all the veterans. I am making DB. 60 oz lemon juice, 6 lb triple berry blend and 20 c sugar. Sg 1.072. Pitched a suspect year a few days ago. Initially I put in a packet of 1118 that was shipped to me but I didn't open the package for four days. So not sure if yeast was bad. It didn't look like any fermentation as of today at about noon so I put another packet of 1118 from lhbs, this time rehydrated in 105 degree f water. As of now still now signs of ferm. Any ideas? I'm going to check sg again tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Make a yeast starter - guarantee the yeast is going - I usually get EC1118 frothing in a small pop bottle in a few hours. This way you are sure the yeast is OK. You see the reaction in the pop bottle , lees dropping to bottom, foam or bubbles - when reaction dies down add more stuff to pop bottle and observe response. 


Yeast starter = (sugar + yeast nutrient + Yeast energizer (optional) + yeast + hot (not too hot) tap water + Kleenex stuffed as stopper + warm dark place ( I throw a towel over it). I use a 600 ml or 1 litre clear pop bottle so I can see what is happening in there.

Then add a little of the must an see what happens - if reacts positive - must is ready can add more and more to starter or to must observing reactions.
..
Can also add yeast energizer to the must.
I always see a visible reaction within a few hours or less - so long as I see it bubbling and sparkling or experience a face-full of CO2 when sniff - especially after a stir I don't bother taking the SG again till I see activity die down..



Give primary must a stir and a lot of stirs and air exposure if suspect sulphides are in it from the fruit and other person said make sure room and must temp is over 70 degrees you may have put fruit packs in while still cold? 

I found Sketter Pee with full lemon no problem to ferment as well as DB two times - .


----------



## photoactivist

Rmstuck said:


> Ok so I made the original recipe DB and I'm sorry to say but so far I'm not a fan.



So, out of curiosity, what was it that you didn't like?
What are your usual preferences for wine?
I've never made Dragons Blood, and was just about to explain elementary winemaking using DB.


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----------



## dangerdave

I have used EC-1118 from the very beginning. Rehydrated in warm water just like instructed on the package. I am yet to have a problem getting one started. I've also done cooler ferments (in the mid 60F), it just takes longer to get going. Between the two (warn vs cool), I prefer the outcome of a warm ferment.


----------



## barbl72

I used an online calculator to determine the alcohol content and it said my Dragon's Blood is 25%! Starting SG 1.170, ending SG .990. Could that be right? If so, no wonder I have a headache today!


----------



## bkisel

barbl72 said:


> I used an online calculator to determine the alcohol content and it said my Dragon's Blood is 25%! Starting SG 1.170, ending SG .990. Could that be right? If so, no wonder I have a headache today!



That starting SG seems way high to me if you pretty much followed the DB recipe. How many cups of sugar did you add to the primary? BTW, the calculator I used gave me 23.62 ABV.


----------



## jojabri

barbl72 said:


> I used an online calculator to determine the alcohol content and it said my Dragon's Blood is 25%! Starting SG 1.170, ending SG .990. Could that be right? If so, no wonder I have a headache today!



GOOD GOOGLY MOOGLY! What yeast did you use??


----------



## barbl72

Used EC 1118 yeast and 10 pounds of sugar to 6 gallons. Maybe I am not reading my SG right or something... I've made 4 batches and they all started at the same. Maybe it was 1.070. either way, it is still a head case!


----------



## calvin

Pretty sure it was 1.070 not 1.170


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----------



## photoactivist

barbl72 said:


> Used EC 1118 yeast and 10 pounds of sugar to 6 gallons. Maybe I am not reading my SG right or something... I've made 4 batches and they all started at the same. Maybe it was 1.070.



That's less than two pound of sugar per gallon. I think you're likely misreading it, and it probably was 1.070. Unless you used sugar frosted cap'n crunch for fruit.

Hmm... Cap'n crunch berries wine... Note to self: tell no one of your brilliant idea lest it fall into the wrong hands.
Muahahaha...

Barb, have you tried your DB? Did it taste like flavored vodka? I think EC-1118 has a high alcohol tolerance, but isn't it only like 18%?



jojabri said:


> GOOD GOOGLY MOOGLY!


Lmao


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----------



## Julie

barbl72 said:


> I used an online calculator to determine the alcohol content and it said my Dragon's Blood is 25%! Starting SG 1.170, ending SG .990. Could that be right? If so, no wonder I have a headache today!



If you stared with 1.170' there is no way you would have fermented out at .990. There is no yeast that would get you there.

I agree I think it was probably 1.070. When first starting out it can be a little confusing on reading a hydrometer.

A simple calculation to determine ABV is sg - fg x 131


----------



## calvin

I got a free alcohol calculator app so I don't have to do math 


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----------



## rolsen99

My DB spent 2 weeks in the secondary and cleared very nicely. I racked it into another carboy to get it off the lees. I noticed that there were some small floaties getting into the racking cane during the transfer. If I rack the DB through a funnel / cheese cloth to remove some floaters prior to bottling, do I risk oxidation at this point?

I followed the recipe to the letter.

Thanks!


----------



## beggarsu

rolsen99 said:


> My DB spent 2 weeks in the secondary and cleared very nicely. I racked it into another carboy to get it off the lees. I noticed that there were some small floaties getting into the racking cane during the transfer. If I rack the DB through a funnel / cheese cloth to remove some floaters prior to bottling, do I risk oxidation at this point?
> 
> I followed the recipe to the letter.
> 
> Thanks!


I use a funnel with a small fine wire strainer every time I rack, in case there is any large micron stuff - you could even use it as you are bottling which I also do, why bother another full racking if it don't need it.

I keep telling myself one day I'm going to juryrig something permanent 
(funnel and filter and hose) fused and secure so I don't have to manually hold it - haven't done it yet.

If I rack stuff extra times I always add a little l extra suphide.


----------



## Johngottshall

Racking my 2nd batch of DB to secondary after work today


----------



## bkisel

The last few post are confusing me... Have you guys added a step to the DB directions to rack to secondary? When the instructions have you remove the fruit pack you're not staying in the primary bucket but racking for more fermentation and then racking again for stabilization, degassing and clearing? I've been staying in the primary bucket until my DB goes dry as this is how I interpret Dave's instructions. Anyway I can see how both procedures would work and give equally good results.

Thanx...


----------



## dangerdave

It would be an option for some if they desired, to rack to a carboy at around SG 1.010 or so. Some folks prefer to do it that way. As per the recipe, I always ferment dry in the primary, if anything, just to keep it simple.


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----------



## Johngottshall

Yep that's what I do when I remove the fruit bag I stay in bucket until it goes dry then into carboy. After it goes dry and I get the same reading 3 days in a row


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> It would be an option for some if they desired, to rack to a carboy at around SG 1.010 or so. Some folks prefer to do it that way. As per the recipe, I always ferment dry in the primary, if anything, just to keep it simple.



Me like simple.


----------



## Rmstuck

photoactivist said:


> So, out of curiosity, what was it that you didn't like?
> What are your usual preferences for wine?
> I've never made Dragons Blood, and was just about to explain elementary winemaking using DB.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I made my first batch exactly to the recipe. I just don't think it has much flavor so I added a pound of raisins and some lemon zest to try and help it. I also added the juices from 3lbs of berries It has now been 2 months and it is ok to drink but I don't. My wife says she will drink it but I was just going to poor it down the drain. Over all I would say its drinkable but I have better wines to drink instead. I will drink any wine I don't have a preference I drink island mist kits one week then drink Joseph Phelps Backus Cab the next. I guess the only wines I don't like are white zin and I would compare my first batch of DB to white zin.

I'm currently giving it another chance but this time did a mixed fruit and did 14lbs of fruit hoping for more flavor. I just racked it for the first time so we will see.


----------



## beggarsu

bkisel said:


> The last few post are confusing me... Have you guys added a step to the DB directions to rack to secondary? When the instructions have you remove the fruit pack you're not staying in the primary bucket but racking for more fermentation and then racking again for stabilization, degassing and clearing? I've been staying in the primary bucket until my DB goes dry as this is how I interpret Dave's instructions. Anyway I can see how both procedures would work and give equally good results.
> 
> Thanx...



I never leave anything in an open primary after the primary ferment is done ie when the SG stabilizes , no visible activity and no more protective layer of CO2 is being emitted. No point giving oxidation exposure.

That means never longer than 7 days in an open air primary. Into the protective carboy or gallon jugs at day 7 or sooner. 
It's worked out is is always day 7 though some of them could have been day 6.

Then I can do the next process step(s) at my leisure it's in the carboy,it's protected.


----------



## shrive22

If the ph is too low or TA is off can that cause the yeast to not start fermenting ? I tired to make my first batch of DB about a week ago and have added 3 packets of yeast and so far no activity. I'm puzzled. I've made about 6 kits and 4 juice buckets without any problem with them fermenting. Sg is still at 1.072

Thanks 


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----------



## calvin

Original recipe? What is the temp of your must?


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----------



## bkisel

beggarsu said:


> I never leave anything in an open primary after the primary ferment is done ie when the SG stabilizes , no visible activity and no more protective layer of CO2 is being emitted. No point giving oxidation exposure.
> 
> That means never longer than 7 days in an open air primary. Into the protective carboy or gallon jugs at day 7 or sooner.
> It's worked out is is always day 7 though some of them could have been day 6.
> 
> Then I can do the next process step(s) at my leisure it's in the carboy,it's protected.



I hear you. I airlocked after removing removing f-pack. Didn't notice until yesterday that the instructions don't tell you to do that.


----------



## shrive22

calvin said:


> Original recipe? What is the temp of your must?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




The changes I made were I added 4 bottles of 15oz lemon juice for total of 60 instead of 48. And I added 2 cups of the recipes 20 of raw sugar which has some molasses in it and maybe just a little less water than 6 gallons. Temp is right around 68. 


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----------



## calvin

Try bringing the temp up to 75 or so to help get it going


----------



## boozehound

Just racked an all blueberry batch (12lbs) to secondary. Degassed for 30 minutes still gettn a lot of bubbles. Kinda has an off smell. I air locked for now. What shall I do about bubbles and smell?


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----------



## willie

Just racked the 2nd batch of DB. Used 6lbs Wymans Three Berry and 3lb bag of WalMart Great Value three berry. Used enough organic sugar to get an SG of 1.085 to get a higher ABV. Wine went to dry at .990 for three straight days. 
The original recipe 1st batch is 65 days old and is just delicious. Am curious to see if it will get any better than it all ready is. 
Will


----------



## Hunt

Just started another batch of the DB this evening and like always I'm giddy with excitment lol.


----------



## Hunt

So the I learn more about Wine making the more questions I have. Should I step feed the must? Like 3 tsp of nutrient now 3tsp at 1\3 of the sugar being eaten and once more once 2\3 if the sugar being eaten. Never done it before and am learning that it could be one of the reasons for the rotten egg smell.


----------



## sour_grapes

IMHO, adding nutrients up front, and at the 1/3-sugar-depletion mark is a fine idea. I believe adding at the 2/3 sugar mark is a bad idea.

The ideal nutrient schedule really depends on the starting nutrients (specifically, the yeast-assimilable nitrogen) in the must. Without knowing that, you are just guessing. (However, what other choice do you have, short of making a large investment to measure YAN?) We assume that DB or SP will be low in nutrients, so we add the nutrients up front.

My understanding is that the yeast need the YAN while reproducing and growing. By the time 2/3 of the sugar is gone, and there is significant alcohol in the must, the yeast are no longer reproducing like crazy. They are hanging out, living out the rest of their days in an alcohol-crazed existence. Therefore, they won't/can't use additional YAN at that point.

So, sure. Either add it all up front, or add half up front and half at the 1/3 sugar mark. I believe you will be fine either way.


----------



## bkisel

Tried an experiment with my second batch. Dry at SG .990 so went to carboy from bucket and started trying to do all the degassing just using my VacuVin. I'm sore as can be and still getting loads of bubbles coming up. Guess stirring does get a lot of gas out. Have a luncheon appointment but when I get back home will steal enough wine from the carboy to use my drill stirrer. I'll add stabilizer and clearing agents then pour the stolen wine back in the carboy and airlock. Live and learn.


----------



## NoobVinter

@anyone: What size fine nylon mesh bag works well with 6 lbs of fruit? They come in different sizes and I'm having trouble getting it pushed into a carboy for primary and it's so messy.........can't figure this one out..........are you smiling now? Yeah I'm just kidding. Seriously though what size bag works well? Thanks. Take care. Rocco.  


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----------



## wineforfun

I use a paint strainer bag that fits over a 5 gallon bucket. Not sure what its exact measurement are, but that should be all you need to look for. Usually they are sized for 5 gallon or 1 gallon buckets/cans.


----------



## dangerdave

@Rocco: "Pant length", I think, is what I use. Anything longer would be fine, but knee highs are definately unnecessary.

@shive22: Calvin is correct. Warm it up to get it going.

@boozehound: The blueberry is different. Give it some time and any off-smells should resolve themselves.


----------



## NoobVinter

Thanks guys.


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## NoobVinter

@dave and wine: I found the 5g paint strainer bags on Amazon. They look like just the thing I need for sure. I'll pick them up. Thanks. Take care.


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## shrive22

@calvin. Thanks I'll warm it up. @dangerdave does yeast 'go bad' after being in the liquid DB must for so long without starting to ferment? 


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## boozehound

Thanks Dave. Patients is not my friend. I'll work on that. 


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## dangerdave

shrive22 said:


> @dangerdave does yeast 'go bad' after being in the liquid DB must for so long without starting to ferment?


 
What a great question! And I have no idea, since I have never had to address that problem myself. I wish I could be more helpful on this one, but someone else will have to answer it.


----------



## Johngottshall

Racking my DB to carboy and degassing. Having a glass of my first batch taste is great . I added a little spritz of 7up for a little fizz lol


----------



## dangerdave

Very nice, John. Love those Stella glasses. Enjoy!

Dave


----------



## jojabri

So I popped open a bottle of Blackberry DB that was bottled March 3rd. 8 weeks ago it was good, now it's truly AH-MAY-ZING!!! The blackberry flavor has jumped out and the sweetness blossomed!

How is it that one can fall in love over and over??


----------



## Hunt

My starter isn't quite ready. is there any problem with letting the must sit for a total of 36 hours instead of 24 or should i just send it in now. the starter is about 2 cups of apple juice starter and aprox 1 quart so far of db must. I wanted to add another quart of must to help the starter acclimate better before pitching.


----------



## bkisel

jojabri said:


> So I popped open a bottle of Blackberry DB that was bottled March 3rd. 8 weeks ago it was good, now it's truly AH-MAY-ZING!!! The blackberry flavor has jumped out and the sweetness blossomed!
> 
> How is it that one can fall in love over and over??



That's great! 

I find DB amazing with just 8 days of bottle aging.


----------



## dangerdave

Hunt said:


> My starter isn't quite ready. is there any problem with letting the must sit for a total of 36 hours instead of 24 or should i just send it in now. the starter is about 2 cups of apple juice starter and aprox 1 quart so far of db must. I wanted to add another quart of must to help the starter acclimate better before pitching.


 
That should be fine, Hunt, if that's how you're doing it. I just rehydrate my yeast for 15 minutes in warm water and stir it in. Haven't had an issue.

The rest of you, keep lovin' on the DB. So many variations, and so few carboys!


----------



## TinyPirate

Tried the blackcurrant last night with a drop of sugar and it was quite quaffable - "alcoholic Ribena!" a friend described it as. 

In not too long a time I will need to back sweeten it. Does anyone have any guidance on how to do this right? I know I can pull some wine out and measure and add sugar, etc, etc, but I am not confident that I won't make it too sweet, or not sweet enough.


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> That should be fine, Hunt, if that's how you're doing it. I just rehydrate my yeast for 15 minutes in warm water and stir it in. Haven't had an issue.
> 
> The rest of you, keep lovin' on the DB. So many variations, and so few carboys!



With now 9 kits and 2 batches of DB (2nd DB not yet bottled) under my belt just pitching the yeast right on top of the must has worked fine. Zero, nada, no fermentation issues whatsoever. This 2nd batch of DB I'm currently working on had SG 1.076 go to 0.990 with no problems. I personally think that if your must is in the 65F-85F range there is no need for re-hydrating before pitching EC-1118. [I'm assuming the yeast hasn't passed its shelf life. I don't know if this would be true for other yeast strains.]


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, that is what most kits say to do, and I have done it with success. Somehow, actually following the product instructions just gives me more confidence, so I usually rehydrate.


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## Hunt

I just wanted to try a starter just for the fun of it and see if there is any difference in taste. Call it my first experiment lol


----------



## beggarsu

Hunt said:


> My starter isn't quite ready. is there any problem with letting the must sit for a total of 36 hours instead of 24 or should i just send it in now. the starter is about 2 cups of apple juice starter and aprox 1 quart so far of db must. I wanted to add another quart of must to help the starter acclimate better before pitching.



A yeast starter for me is water, sugar, nutrient and yeast about 250 ml ml and is frothing adn dropping lees in about 90 - 120 minutes - adding 100 ml of must at that point - if it froths within 45 min to 1 hour , then both the must and the yeast are ready. 

Only very rarely will it not take off like that and if that happens there is a serious problem that you have to get more of the must involved in the starter or splash rack the must if you got too much sulphide in it..


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> Yes, that is what most kits say to do, and I have done it with success. Somehow, actually following the product instructions just gives me more confidence, so I usually rehydrate.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I hear you Dave. I got a chuckle yesterday as I was reading instructions for the clearing agents. Two plastic packets joined together with instructions on them and a paper label on the entire packet with instructions that vary from the first agents instructions. I fell back to doing as I've done with the kits D1 stir 2 minutes then add D2 and stir 2 minutes. First DB batch cleared fine and this second patch looks pretty clear already with less than 24 hours clearing time.


----------



## Rosa321

bkisel said:


> I hear you Dave. I got a chuckle yesterday as I was reading instructions for the clearing agents. Two plastic packets joined together with instructions on them and a paper label on the entire packet with instructions that vary from the first agents instructions. I fell back to doing as I've done with the kits D1 stir 2 minutes then add D2 and stir 2 minutes. First DB batch cleared fine and this second patch looks pretty clear already with less than 24 hours clearing time.



Are you referring to the two packets in 'Super Kleer'?
I ask because the first time I used it, I used the directions on the front, added one right after the other. It cleared very fast. 
The second and third time I used it, I followed the instructions on the back, and I got clumping and/or it took a really long time to clear (I'm at least a month into clearing on my latest batch).
I'm just wondering if I should go back to adding them together, rather than hours apart....


----------



## calvin

Rosa321 said:


> Are you referring to the two packets in 'Super Kleer'?
> I ask because the first time I used it, I used the directions on the front, added one right after the other. It cleared very fast.
> The second and third time I used it, I followed the instructions on the back, and I got clumping and/or it took a really long time to clear (I'm at least a month into clearing on my latest batch).
> I'm just wondering if I should go back to adding them together, rather than hours apart....



The only time I used superkleer. I poured one in then stirred. Then poured the other in immediately. My skeeter pee was crystal clear in 24 hours


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----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> Are you referring to the two packets in 'Super Kleer'?
> I ask because the first time I used it, I used the directions on the front, added one right after the other. It cleared very fast.
> The second and third time I used it, I followed the instructions on the back, and I got clumping and/or it took a really long time to clear (I'm at least a month into clearing on my latest batch).
> I'm just wondering if I should go back to adding them together, rather than hours apart....



Yes, Super-Kleer. With my kits the same clearing agents have always come in two separate packets but when I buy it at my LHBS the two agents are together in a single packet but in separate, what I'll call, pockets. 

My feeling is that it should be fine either way just so long as they're added in the correct sequence and within 24 hours of each other. Could it be that there is something unique about the process and DB?

So far with all my wines, both kit and DB, the wine has cleared in 24-48 hours using the super-kleer agents.


----------



## photoactivist

Rosa321 said:


> Are you referring to the two packets in 'Super Kleer'?
> I ask because the first time I used it, I used the directions on the front, added one right after the other. It cleared very fast.
> The second and third time I used it, I followed the instructions on the back, and I got clumping and/or it took a really long time to clear (I'm at least a month into clearing on my latest batch).
> I'm just wondering if I should go back to adding them together, rather than hours apart....



One of the aspects we discovered over at the Skittles Wine thread was that not all musts respond to Superkleer alone. We had to treat our murky wines with 1/4 tsp amylase enzyme before the chitosan and kieselsol would actually clarify the wine. Could be the situation with your second and third times...

After I turned my supplier on to amylase, he told me he uses it 100% of the time now. I don't, but there are times when superkleer isn't superman. It's not often, but sometimes.

As for my method, I usually add chitosan an hour after the kieselsol. Almost everything clarifies in one day, two to three at the longest.


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## Julie

There can be several different reasons why your wine would be cloudy. SuperKlear or Sarkleloid will normally clear your wines but if you have a pectic haze you would need to add pectic enzyme and if you have a starch haze you would need to add amylase.


----------



## bkisel

Well my second batch of DB now gets to "bulk age"



for a week or so while my wife and I go on vacation. Really interested to see how much a difference this batch will be from the first considering it has been made with an organic five berry blend (strawberry, blueberry, raspberry, cranberry and cherry) and a bit less back sweetening.

This batch is in one of my Italian carboy's which means I'll be getting 31 maybe even 32 bottles from this batch. I cut back on the amount of water added from what the directions indicate so only wound up with about half a cup extra of wine. First batch I made, filling with water to the 23L primary bucket line, I wound up with way to much wine left over. I'm guessing you'd want to add water up to about 1/2"-3/4" below the line to wind up closer to 23L/6 gal. of finished wine.


----------



## sour_grapes

If any of you are interested in swapping, I have proposed a 3-for-1 swap here:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f131/dragon-blood-three-one-44957/#post509852


----------



## jojabri

sour_grapes said:


> If any of you are interested in swapping, I have proposed a 3-for-1 swap here:
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f131/dragon-blood-three-one-44957/#post509852



I would but I haven't made an original tripleberry batch. I can't find the berry mix here. All mine are quadberry, tropical, strawberry, or blackberry (or tea, but that's still in the works.)


----------



## Hunt

It's only been about 3 days and already my SG is at 1.010 I should be able to remove the fruit tomorrow morning and let it finish fermenting one of the fastest fermentations to date


----------



## dangerdave

I've had a batch in the bottle in as little as two weeks. Some folks have done it faster. Do not be concerned. It will be good.


----------



## Elmer

Blueberry/red raspberry came out well.
It is very light, which could be from only using 6lb for 6 gallon.

So far only sweetened 1 gallon. Used 1/2 cup sugar.
Wife approves, but wants oak!
So I oaked 1 gallon, with 1 oz of heavy toast american oak, see how it turns out.
It is definitely different than the typical triple berry.
And while it is lacking the blackberry flavor, this allows the blueberry to be a more dominant flavor. 
Like I said this will be a light , non heavy summer drink to have by the pool with ice!
I wish I had room on my label to add "it is a light drink"!!!!




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## bkisel

I think DB being a "light" drink is part of its appeal. For me DB being relatively inexpensive and quick to make are two other pluses.

It is interesting to see how the color of your wine is close to that of the two batches I've made using two different berry mixes. Brings to mind another appeal of DB, its recipe is very adaptable to different fruit mixes.


----------



## Rosa321

Julie said:


> There can be several different reasons why your wine would be cloudy. SuperKlear or Sarkleloid will normally clear your wines but if you have a pectic haze you would need to add pectic enzyme and if you have a starch haze you would need to add amylase.



Thanks for the posts, everyone....
I am pretty sure I have pectic haze from the fruit. Last time I added 3tsp of Pectic enzyme, warmed it up, and 6-8 weeks later I had clear wine. This time I added the pectic enzyme, but I didn't put my brew belt on it, as I keep intending to start a batch of mango. Maybe I should wrap it in a blanket to warm it up? My house is always FREEZING!!! 

Anyway....I don't THINK it's a starch haze, as per my experience with the last batch......and there's no "starch" in it. (Can you get a starch haze from just fruit?). So I'll just wait it out. 

But I'll double check my instructions. Maybe I'm doing something wrong that is causing the haze? I am using more fruit (12lbs up front, and 3lbs to make juice, as per the dragonette recipe) but trying to follow the recipe as instructed. Maybe it's the cold temps in here???


----------



## TinyPirate

Racked and backsweetened up to 1.003. The blackcurrant is dark and crisp, quite nice. The flavors haven't really blended in together yet. There's the sourness of the currant and the sweetness of the sugar. I hope time fixes that! I'll bottle next weekend and then wait to get drinking!


----------



## Hunt

My DB is good and dry sitting at .94 down from 1.075 God and strong. I have to wait till Friday to put it in secondary seeing as I'm out of carboys lol.


----------



## shrive22

I'm still having issues with my first batch. I pitched around 5 different packets of yeast. Finally after a week withy no ferm I racked to a 5 gal carboy. And I pitched another packet last night. Hopefully it will be fermenting tonight when I get home. 

If ph is around 2.7 will that inhibit ferm? 

Any other suggestions to get this batch going? It still tastes good. Very sugary. 


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----------



## calvin

shrive22 said:


> I'm still having issues with my first batch. I pitched around 5 different packets of yeast. Finally after a week withy no ferm I racked to a 5 gal carboy. And I pitched another packet last night. Hopefully it will be fermenting tonight when I get home.
> 
> If ph is around 2.7 will that inhibit ferm?
> 
> Any other suggestions to get this batch going? It still tastes good. Very sugary.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Something is obviously wrong if you can't get it fermenting....

What is your sg?
What yeast? Is it expired?
What temp?


----------



## calvin

shrive22 said:


> I'm still having issues with my first batch. I pitched around 5 different packets of yeast. Finally after a week withy no ferm I racked to a 5 gal carboy. And I pitched another packet last night. Hopefully it will be fermenting tonight when I get home.
> 
> If ph is around 2.7 will that inhibit ferm?
> 
> Any other suggestions to get this batch going? It still tastes good. Very sugary.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Something is obviously wrong if you can't get it fermenting....

What is your sg?
What yeast? Is it expired?
What temp?


----------



## shrive22

Sg 1.070 
Yeast ec-1118
Temp 68-70 F


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----------



## Julie

shrive22 said:


> I'm still having issues with my first batch. I pitched around 5 different packets of yeast. Finally after a week withy no ferm I racked to a 5 gal carboy. And I pitched another packet last night. Hopefully it will be fermenting tonight when I get home.
> 
> If ph is around 2.7 will that inhibit ferm?
> 
> Any other suggestions to get this batch going? It still tastes good. Very sugary.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


 
You really need to keep it in the bucket, in the carboy it will get least air and if it hasn't started by now, it will never start in the carboy. Keep it in the bucket with the lid on loosely. 

Are you stirring? You should be stirring a couple times a day, and don't be gentle. Also, add a brew belt.


----------



## dangerdave

If it's been a week, and five packets of yeast, with a temp around 70F, it should be fermenting, even with the high acid content. People make Skeeter Pee all the time. Since it's not fermenting, there must be another issue. Could be water related. What was your source? Have you had this problem before?

Julie gives good advice---_really_!


----------



## shrive22

I have made 5 or so kits and haven't had any issues with them. So I don't think it's water problem. 

Thanks Julie I'll try your ideas. 


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----------



## Julie

Can you post your hydrometer reading? This will in problem solving


----------



## Rosa321

Is there a difference between powdered and liquid tannins?
I've been using powdered, but my LHBS only has liquid in stock.
Do either work for dragons blood? Is there a difference in measurements?

Thanks!!!


----------



## dangerdave

Sorry, Rosa. I have no experience with liquid tannin, so I'm no help.


----------



## CowboyRam

I tried my strawberry/rhubarb dragons blood this last weekend. It has been in the bottle for about a month; it seems a little strong on lemon. I hope that it will mellow out some as it ages.


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> Sorry, Rosa. I have no experience with liquid tannin, so I'm no help.



Thanks! The lady who runs my LHBS is AMAZING! She's going to order the powdered one for me.


----------



## TinyPirate

Here is my blackcurrant bottled!




Printer ran out of ink on the last labels, haha! I haven't labeled it as a DB as I don't want to explain it to everyone each time I open it. 

The wine has changed since I backsweetened it a week ago, back then I worried about it being a bit too sweet (1.003) but now it is quite tart. I like it though, it is very "Pinoty" - which is a wine I love. I will open a bottle in a month and we will see how we go!

Oh, the front bottle is a clear one (only have one). This stuff is dark!


----------



## bkisel

TinyPirate said:


> Here is my blackcurrant bottled!
> 
> Printer ran out of ink on the last labels, haha! I haven't labeled it as a DB as I don't want to explain it to everyone each time I open it.
> 
> The wine has changed since I backsweetened it a week ago, back then I worried about it being a bit too sweet (1.003) but now it is quite tart. I like it though, it is very "Pinoty" - which is a wine I love. I will open a bottle in a month and we will see how we go!
> 
> Oh, the front bottle is a clear one (only have one). This stuff is dark!



I like your labels. 

I don't call it DB either but rather Lemon Berry Wine. I do have on my labels, in small print,... "DD DB by [my name]" but no one has asked what "DD DB" means.


----------



## shrive22

Finally with temperature at 78 fermentation starts. 



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----------



## bkisel

shrive22 said:


> Finally with temperature at 78 fermentation starts.



As the saying goes... "All's well that ends well."


----------



## Julie

shrive22 said:


> Finally with temperature at 78 fermentation starts. View attachment 15730
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



You really need to get that into a bucket, keeping it in a carboy with an airlock will stress the yeast which can create a stuck fermentation.


----------



## reefman

I couldn't agree more, Julie knows her stuff. She helped me out a lot when I was new. 
If the fermentation sticks, and the Sp G has dropped to around 1.020, you will not likely get it started again, and adding more yeast at that point could ruin it with some off tastes.


----------



## shrive22

Ok I'll transfer back to an old Chilean juice bucket. Thanks. 



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----------



## shrive22

Julie, quick question, why would keeping it in carboy stress the yeast? 


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----------



## Julie

At the beginning of a fermentation, yeast need oxygen, putting it in a carboy at the beginning lowers the amount of oxygen it can get and adding an airlock pretty much blocks oxygen all together, that is why the yeast gets stressed


----------



## go_mustangs

Hi there, I would like to start my first batch of this but I will be in Mexico from 6/1/14 until 6/8/14. Is there a timeline that would make starting a batch before I leave feasible or am I better off waiting until I get back. The temperature is rising and something tells me this will be a popular beverage of choice during the summer months. Thank you in advance for any help you can lend.


----------



## StoneCreek

Start it now. It'll be in the secondary by the time you leave and it'll start cleaning while your gone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Rosa321

this is a very newbie question.... but how do I know when a wine is done clearing? I made a batch of Dragonette, I used a lot of fruit.... 12 pounds up front and then I'd have to check my notes, but either 3 or 6 pounds to make juice out of. I used a triple berry blend of strawberry blackberry and raspberry. anyway it's a very dark color red. and it's been clearing for a LONG time now. I did a racking at Easter time and added more pectic enzyme. 

I'm just not sure how to tell if it's cleared all the way. it doesn't look particularly cloudy or like it has any floaters.... I'm wondering if maybe because it's so dark I can't tell? is there a gold standard to measure clarifying by?

Thanks!


----------



## calvin

Put a sample in a glass. Take it in a dark room and shine a flashlight through it. If you can see particles it's not completely clear.


----------



## reefman

I shine a flashlight through the carboy. And as Calvin mention, if you can see the light inside the carboy, it's reflecting off the particles. In A nice clear wine you will not see the light in the carboy. Place a piece of paper on the side opposite the flashlight, and you should see the light on it.
Someone else suggested using a red laser light.


----------



## jkrug

I use a piece of paper with print on it. If I can read the print clearly I feel I am good. Of course that does not work with reds.


----------



## bkisel

EVEN BETTER!

Bottled my 2nd batch of DB this afternoon. Got 31 & 1/2 bottles out of a full 6.5 gallon Italian carboy. Wife and I drank the half bottle and both feel it is even better than the first batch. 

Here are the differences between batch 1 and 2...


Batch 1 used a 4 berry blend (strawberry, blueberry, raspberry and blackberry from Stop and Shop vs. an organic 5 berry blend (strawberry, blueberry, raspberry, cranberry and cherry) from Costco.
Batch 1 used Stop and Shop brand lemon juice and a few onces less than 48 because they didn't have ReaLemon 48 oz on the shelf. Batch 2 used ReaLemon 48 oz.
4.5 cups of sugar back sweetened batch 1 but only 4 cups used with batch 2.
With batch 1 I filled the primary to the 23L line and wound up overflowing even my 6.5 gallon carboy. With batch 2 I filled the primary to maybe 1/2-3/4" below the line before adding the berries. [Still had about a cup of overflow with the second batch.]

Well anyway, for whatever reason(s) batch 2 turned out even better than batch 1. Also, DB, which I label Lemon Berry Wine, is to me tastier refrigerator temperature chilled as opposed to room temperature. [This is coming from a fan of big reds served @ room temperature.]

DB RULES!


----------



## beggarsu

I am back-sweetening the first 4.2 gallon batch of 2 .
Sampling- at 3/4 cup sugar (as simple Syrup)content per gallon - it's very good - I can taste both berry and tart in balance.

Is : 177.441 ml (3/4 cup) per 3785.41 ml (gallon) , ratio of .0468749 

or about 4.7 percent sweet (sugar).

I used standard amounts (6 pounds fruit to 6 gallons percentage) - A very good recipe! Now I can substitute all different kinds of fruits - tropical daze tropical fruits with lime, or DB with Blueberry etc.


----------



## Rosa321

ok........so if it's "clear" I won't see the light in there...

Do you mean the whole beam of light?
I can't imagine not seeing ANY Light in there haha

But it looks like it's definitely not clear.......... Do you think another racking/pectic enzyme will help? Or just wait it out?


----------



## freqflyer

*Latest recipe*

I tried the search function with no luck and 174 pages is a bit much to wade through, although I have read many of them.

Where can I find the latest version of the original recipe, preferably in pdf format.

Thank you.


----------



## TinyPirate

Pretty sure Dave keeps the first post up to date. I would go to it and have a look.


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> I tried the search function with no luck and 174 pages is a bit much to wade through, although I have read many of them.
> 
> Where can I find the latest version of the original recipe, preferably in pdf format.
> 
> Thank you.



Very first post of this thread. Just click "<< First"" which you'll find on the Page x of x list bar found both near the top and the bottom of this page. 

Near the very bottom of the first post, after the recipe, you'll find a link to the recipe in PDF format. 

Good luck!


----------



## reefman

Rosa321 said:


> ok........so if it's "clear" I won't see the light in there...
> 
> Do you mean the whole beam of light?
> I can't imagine not seeing ANY Light in there haha
> 
> But it looks like it's definitely not clear.......... Do you think another racking/pectic enzyme will help? Or just wait it out?


Actually, I have a kit ready to bottle. It's a light red color.
It's so clear, when you shine the flashlight into it, you can only see the beam of light on the other sude of the carboy. There are no particles big enough to reflect light inside the wine.


----------



## reefman

sorry, forgot to answer your question.
my personal preference would be to wait it out. I'm not a big fan of adding extra chemicals just to speed up the process.
Other opinions may vary. Racking will help, if you see lees sitting on the bottom of the carboy.


----------



## Rosa321

reefman said:


> Actually, I have a kit ready to bottle. It's a light red color.
> It's so clear, when you shine the flashlight into it, you can only see the beam of light on the other sude of the carboy. There are no particles big enough to reflect light inside the wine.



Ok...... Sorry, I'm still very much a newbie!
I've shined a light through the carboy in a dark room. And I see a perfect beam of light through the top half. On the bottom half, the light scatters.
I was thinking that meant the top half was clear, and the bottom not clear.
Is that correct?
Or, of the top was really clear, would I see absolutely no light in there?

Sorry for all the questions..... Just trying to clarify the clarifying process! hehe
Thanks!!!


----------



## Loxalibations

Rosa321 said:


> Ok...... Sorry, I'm still very much a newbie!
> I've shined a light through ...
> 
> I am new also, but the few batches I have made it took about 3 weeks to mistly settle then reracked to remove dregs ans repeated every three weeks 3x before I got a really clear product. I was using fruit, not a kit.


----------



## Hunt

So im thinking there may be something wrong with my latest batch of DB. I was nice and clear today and i went to back sweeten it and as soon as i started to stir in the sugar I started to cough uncontrollably for almost a minute. Once that fit was over i smelled the wine and it had a strong smell that I cant identify. I gave it a good stir and racked it back into the carboy to clear again. Anyone know what could have happened?


----------



## peaches9324

Sulfite? Sulfite smell will make you cough. Did you add the sorbate before sweetening? How does it smell now?


----------



## Elmer

Bottled 25 bottles of Blue/Rasp yesterday.
Held back 1/2 gallon and added a few hungarian oak cubes to see how that fares!

Overall it is a very light drink, mostly because there was 1 lb of fruit per 1 gallon of water.
I ended up using 4 cups of sugar for 5.5 gallon of wine.

The lemon still seems to be very upfront followed by blueberry.

I am sure on a super hot day, when it is super cold, it will not make any difference.

Now on to some skeeter pee!


----------



## Rosa321

Loxalibations said:


> Rosa321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok...... Sorry, I'm still very much a newbie!
> I've shined a light through ...
> 
> I am new also, but the few batches I have made it took about 3 weeks to mistly settle then reracked to remove dregs ans repeated every three weeks 3x before I got a really clear product. I was using fruit, not a kit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am using fruit also. Might just be time to try another racking....
Click to expand...


----------



## Hunt

peaches9324 said:


> Sulfite? Sulfite smell will make you cough. Did you add the sorbate before sweetening? How does it smell now?



It doesn't have a sulfur smell. I'd say its chemical but can't pick out the smell. I did add the sorbate about a week before back sweetening. I'll give it a smell as soon as I can and update.


----------



## Winenoob66

It's not an acetone smell is it? How is the color of the wine?


----------



## dangerdave

Back from my mini-vacation and trying to catch up on hundreds of unread posts. Sheesh, our little forum ain't so little anymore!

If I missed any questions that need to be fielded, please let me know.

It's good to be home!


----------



## Hunt

An acid smell is the best way I can describe it. The color is really light red.


----------



## dangerdave

That is very light in color. Mine is always a ruby red. The acidic smell might not be unusual, given that you have not sweetened it yet. Is it clear yet? It's hard to tell in the picture.


----------



## Hunt

It is back sweetened did it last night once it was clear. That's when I noticed something was off


----------



## dangerdave

How does it taste?


----------



## Hunt

Tastes pretty nasty. Can't describe it.


----------



## dangerdave

"Smells like acid" and "tastes pretty nasty". Not good. I'm affraid I can't be of much help there. I have been very lucky in that I have had very few problems to solve in my short three year wine making career. I know you have made DB before, so something must have been different this time. Do you thnk there could be a sanitation issue, or a different water supply, outdated chemicals?

I wish I could give you some advice on how to fix this...


----------



## Julie

Are you smelling anything that smells like a burnt match or nail polish remover?


----------



## Hunt

I did use a new water supply. Got the water out of a dispenser at my store. Also used store brand triple berry blend. What's odd is everything was normal till it went into the carboy.


----------



## Hunt

It just occurred to me that I also used the same water supply for a Wine Kit that went way south. I'm afraid I'm gonna have to dump the DB I'll restart it with my normal water supply and pray.


----------



## Hunt

Julie said:


> Are you smelling anything that smells like a burnt match or nail polish remover?



No it's a strong chemical smell that literally burns my nose.


----------



## dangerdave

Something is definately wrong with it. Even the color is off. If it smells and tastes like you said, you probably shouldn't drink it.

All you can do is test the theory about the water supply. Get some more fruit and do what worked before. Then you'll know for sure.


----------



## Hunt

Yep it's going down the drain tonight. Just waiting for someone to play taps and a 21 toast sault


----------



## sour_grapes

Hunt said:


> No it's a strong chemical smell that literally burns my nose.





[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyDvc8tsd_0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyDvc8tsd_0[/ame]


----------



## Hunt

Lol yep that's pretty close.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

ss for your loss Hunt. I've yet to have to have a funeral for one of mine, but I'm sure it will happen sometime!


----------



## Hunt

It will be a good learning experience of I'm able to figure out what went wrong.


----------



## go_mustangs

go_mustangs said:


> Hi there, I would like to start my first batch of this but I will be in Mexico from 6/1/14 until 6/8/14. Is there a timeline that would make starting a batch before I leave feasible or am I better off waiting until I get back. The temperature is rising and something tells me this will be a popular beverage of choice during the summer months. Thank you in advance for any help you can lend.



Ok, I finally got all the ingredients together....can I start it today, rack to carboy before I leave on 6/1/14....is there enough time?


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, get that sucker going!!!

You have two choices, really. 1) You can move it into a carboy at about SG 1.010 and let it sit (without adding anything else) until you return. By that time, secondary fermentation will be complete. 2) What I would do would be to get it to "dry" in the primary before you leave. If you keep it nice and warm, and squeeze and stir daily, nine days it plenty of time. Then, just before you leave, stabilize/degas and add your fining agent (Sparkolloid or other). By the time you get back, it should be nice and clear. You can then filter (if desired), back sweeten, and bottle just in time for Summer and a nice (if you are American) 4th of July celebration.

Perfect!


----------



## dangerdave

And if some of you haven't heard me hype this: Muscato blends wonderfully with original Dragon Blood. My wife loves it so much, she started openning my Muscato and mixing the bottles. So, I got as WE Muscato kit and made it next to a batch of DB. After some experimentation---and input from my wife---we discovered a 5:3 ratio of DB to Muscato is spot on! I took a six gallon carboy, added 3.75 gallons of DB and 2.25 gallons of Muscato. It is slightly lighter in color than the DB, and I call it _Dragon Lady_.

To be bottled soon.


----------



## go_mustangs

Thank you very much, I'll get it going tonight.


----------



## willie

Hey Dave, interested in the DB Muscato blend. Can you help me out on where to find the Muscato Kit? Been searching for this We Muscato Kit and no luck. 
Will


----------



## dangerdave

The guys at Labelpeelers are awesome! I get a lot of stuff from them. Great prices, fast shipping (because they are in Ohio), and excellent service. I've been to their store, and even gave them a bottle of Dragon Blood last time I was up there. They also sell this kit for a great price. I've seen it listed for $25 more on other sites.

http://labelpeelers.com/world-vineyard-california-moscato-10l-wine-kit/

Or you could drive there. It's like 2 hours from you.


----------



## calvin

dangerdave said:


> The guys at Labelpeelers are awesome! I get a lot of stuff from them. Great prices, fast shipping (because they are in Ohio), and excellent service. I've been to their store, and even gave them a bottle of Dragon Blood last time I was up there. They also sell this kit for a great price. I've seen it listed for $25 more on other sites.
> 
> http://labelpeelers.com/world-vineyard-california-moscato-10l-wine-kit/
> 
> Or you could drive there. It's like 2 hours from you.



X2 on label peelers being awesome! I buy most of my kits from them. I feel kind of bad not buying local. But you can't beat there sales. I just ordered a WE selection international amarone kit from them. Total was $126. At my local LHBS they want $155. Make sure you get signed up for there weekly email newsletter. They have had 22% off wine kits for almost a month.


----------



## TableSeven

dangerdave said:


> And if some of you haven't heard me hype this: Muscato blends wonderfully with original Dragon Blood.




I have Moscato... hmmm
However I do need to run another batch of that, since the Moscato went very quickly. 

I'm also going to third on Label peelers, I've been ordering a lot from them, they have better prices than the local places here so when I'm getting a bunch of stuff I've been going to them. They do ship pretty fast too.


----------



## Simpsini

My DB Update - Just FYI....I did a 3 Gal batch of DB in January. I followed DD's instructions to the tee, only cutting everything in half. I backsweetened it with simple sugar and added 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon. backsweetened SG was 1.008. When I first tried the DB it had a very strong lemony flavor. Now in May I have tried some more and it has mellowed a lot. It is very good. The flavors have come together nicely and the sweetness is just right. Ive started my 2nd batch, but I'm adding twice the amount of berries (8 lb) and I have cut the lemon back from 24 oz for a 3 gal batch to 12 oz. I hope this won't mess up my acid levels. 

Great recipe Danger Dave... Thanks


----------



## Simpsini

DD & Calvin...Thanks for the tip on Lablepeelers wine site. I just ordered an Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot & a Int'l Selection Sauvignon Blanc from them. They were $20 cheaper then another site in FL that I was going to order from. Those will be my next wines. I've done both before and they both are really good.


----------



## willie

Yes thanks, Dave and Calvin for the info. about LabelPeelers.


----------



## beggarsu

First Batch using 4 berry pack was dark coloured - I labelled it _"Dragons Blood",_ Second batch was light using another brand of 4-berry pack , I labelled it _"Dragons Breath"_... Just my way to tell them apart - each batch will have a new dragon name. ::


----------



## Evrwhr

I just started my fourth batch of Dragons Blood, I might have to try the blend for my wife. Although I always have rave reviews with the original when I share with friends. I Have to agree about Label Peelers. I'm fairly close and get by there quite often. They always have the best prices and are very helpful with any questions. I went to a wine class and a beer class (Christmas Ale was a huge hit, more brewing now) they have a pre class meeting that is very informative and enjoyable.

Don

In primary:
Dragons Blood

In secondary Fresh Chilean:
Malbec
Pinot Noir
Sangiovese
Sauvignon Blanc


----------



## dangerdave

There are always DB lurkers out there! Welcome to the site, Don. I'm glad you're having success with the recipe. Enjoy!

I have found that Wyman's Triple Berry Blend gives mine the best over-all taste and color. The Townsend Blend (same fruits) tends to make a lighter (color and flavor) wine. Don't know what the reason is. Might be the ratio of blueberries, as they seem to be the source of most of the color.


----------



## willie

Well the 2nd batch of DB is 39 days old now still bulk ageing in the carboy. Changes to the original recipe I added an extra 3lb bag of the Great Value 3 berry which has strawberry, raspberry and blueberry. I back sweetened with 3.5 cups of organic sugar and 1 can Bacardi's Strawberry Daiquiri mix that a poster on here recommended. Gave a sample that is a little lighter in color than the 1st original batch to my wife and she said it had a hint of strawberry flavor. She really likes it. We are planning on bottling it in a week or two. 
Will


----------



## willie

Hey Beggarsu how did your Raspberry Banana wine turn out? It sounds good. Also I like the sound of the Apple Orange wine your making. 
Will


----------



## kad2371

I searched for an answer to this, but without luck. I just started my first batch of DB (well, lemon juice, sugar, the additives have been mixed together in my primary, berries thawed but not yet added) and I realized I forgot to get the pectic enzymes. How big of a deal will this be? The earliest I can get it now is 4 days from now. I'm tempted to keep going and add the enzyme later, but I was hoping to hear from someone with experience. This is my first time making any type of wine. So, will I still be OK?


----------



## dangerdave

The pectic enzyme will help break down the fruit and prevent protein haze during clearing. I have not tried adding it in the middle of primary fementation, but I'm all about experimenting, so if it were me, I'd get it going and add the PE as soon as you can. And post your results (good or bad) so that in the future, someone like you can find an answer to this very question. Shoot, _I_ want to know now!

Good luck, and keep us posted!


----------



## kad2371

Thanks for the quick answer, I'll certainly let people know how things go with this batch.


----------



## Rosa321

Well......Decided to rack and stir the wine that is not quite clear. I was hoping the racking and stirring would remove any residual gas and aid in clearing. Fingers Crossed!!! 

Also.....got three 1 gallon glass jugs from my uncle this weekend. And a stopper fits in them! I am very excited to start some "test" batches!


----------



## barbl72

dangerdave said:


> And if some of you haven't heard me hype this: Muscato blends wonderfully with original Dragon Blood. My wife loves it so much, she started openning my Muscato and mixing the bottles. So, I got as WE Muscato kit and made it next to a batch of DB. After some experimentation---and input from my wife---we discovered a 5:3 ratio of DB to Muscato is spot on! I took a six gallon carboy, added 3.75 gallons of DB and 2.25 gallons of Muscato. It is slightly lighter in color than the DB, and I call it _Dragon Lady_.
> 
> To be bottled soon.



I mixed some green apple Riesling with DB and it was really good! Mixed it in the glass - a cool drink on a nice day - PERFECT!


----------



## bkisel

barbl72 said:


> I mixed some green apple Riesling with DB and it was really good! Mixed it in the glass - a cool drink on a nice day - PERFECT!



Thank you! Never thought of blending in that fashion. For some reason up until your post I'm always thinking that blending is something you do before bottling. I like the way you did it, gives me an excuse to have several bottles open at one time.






BTW, are there some rules-of-thumb for blending that help to insure success instead of disaster?


----------



## ou8amaus

Got a weird one. Followed standard db recipe minus half the lemon juice. Cleared really well, but I put it through a 1 micron filter just to be sure. Backsweetened with black currant concentrate. Looked great... but 2 weeks later I am seeing more sediment? Not fine sediment like you might expect,but the kind that falls out after clarifiers are added! No bottle explosions. Obviously need to re-filter, but anyone have an idea what went wrong?


----------



## Rosa321

Thanks for posting!!!

My first batch did that too..........but I thought I goofed and didn't let it clear long enough.
I always let them go a REALLY long time now before I bottle (months) and rack a few times.
I'm only on my 3rd batch.... but the first batch I made is doing the same thing....My second batch (blueberry only) is not.


----------



## Elmer

Showed up to a neighbors cookout yesterday.
Found a few of neighborhood women finishing off a bottle of my Blueberry/Raspberry!
They loved it.
Good thing I arrived with 2 more bottles in hand!


----------



## dangerdave

barbl72 said:


> I mixed some green apple Riesling with DB and it was really good! Mixed it in the glass - a cool drink on a nice day - PERFECT!


 
Yes, we've tried that one, too. Pretty good, but we prefer the muscato.


----------



## beggarsu

ou8amaus said:


> Got a weird one. Followed standard db recipe minus half the lemon juice. Cleared really well, but I put it through a 1 micron filter just to be sure. Backsweetened with black currant concentrate. Looked great... but 2 weeks later I am seeing more sediment? Not fine sediment like you might expect,but the kind that falls out after clarifiers are added! No bottle explosions. Obviously need to re-filter, but anyone have an idea what went wrong?



Yeah I've seen that from my rhubarb which is the reason I started filtering.

I would say from the concentrate - sounds like the only wild card - maybe better to use in the primary and backsweeten with pure simple syrup.

I did 2 times 4 gallon batches with different berry packs - used bentonite in the startup.

Bottled at the 4 week mark. Both are still clear and were very clear even before filtering with whole house filter - almost didn't need filtering.


----------



## ou8amaus

beggarsu said:


> I would say from the concentrate - sounds like the only wild card - maybe better to use in the primary and backsweeten with pure simple syrup.



I think you hit the nail on the head! I am going to dump it back into a carboy and re-filter. Is it possible some of the clarified stayed in the wine after racking and it ended up precipitating some if the particles in the juice concentrate?


----------



## beggarsu

ou8amaus said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head! I am going to dump it back into a carboy and re-filter. Is it possible some of the clarified stayed in the wine after racking and it ended up precipitating some if the particles in the juice concentrate?



That sounds like a good explanation, the concentrate is probably not 'pure'. Maybe you should re-settle it as well before re-filtering it.


----------



## beggarsu

willie said:


> Hey Beggarsu how did your Raspberry Banana wine turn out? It sounds good. Also I like the sound of the Apple Orange wine your making.
> Will



_OT 

Raspberry Banana from my home raspberry patch - two months in carboy and six weeks in bottle - was enough to make it a hit and popular on the table, I only had 21 bottles so I selfishly had to hide the rest away. Going to crack some for my birthday party , the sixth + month mark since bottling. 

Orange apple here: 
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f45/six-gallons-walmart-apple-juice-suggestions-44629/_

-------------------

Dragon Blood and Dragon Breath ( 4 gallons each) - both are lovely - goes down smooth without much aging - too smooth - just the right balance of tart and berry. 

I made a second batch of Skeeter Pee - 12 litres and am going to add orange kool-aid for colouring - however, from now on, I think I will just prefer my way over to the berry and lemon combination of the Dragons Combinations. It's more interesting and still inexpensive and you don't need as much fruit because of the lemon balance and there are many berry packs to try out as well as the tropical recipes.


----------



## cthompson116

*Back sweeten*

Any one not back sweeten when bottling? To me, it makes sense to not back sweeten until ready to serve. This way you can serve to taste etc... Any disadvantages to this approach?


----------



## Elmer

cthompson116 said:


> Any one not back sweeten when bottling? To me, it makes sense to not back sweeten until ready to serve. This way you can serve to taste etc... Any disadvantages to this approach?



it would just add extra work to drinking!

I usually hold a gallon back in a jug. This gives me a chance to oak or not sweeten as much.
Then I can bottle and allows for a comparison of the same wine with different characters.


----------



## beggarsu

I didn't have the time right now to design labels I liked and none of the labels at the wine store were appropriate .

So I used blank labels from the dollar store but also besides hand printing the information I used children's stickers on the labels to easily identify the bottles.

I used _shark stickers_ on the Skeeter Pee/Lemon Wine. (what else for that "shark bite"?)

_Kitten stickers_ on the Dragons Blood and/or Dragons "_______" variations . (I couldn't find dragon stickers lol. )

And _honey bears_ on the apple wine labels. ...

I put one or two stickers on each label;.

I really works well because I identify the bottle just by the sticker I don't even need to read the label.


----------



## freqflyer

I've made several wine kits years ago. This will be my first attempt at something from scratch.

What type of yeast nutrient do I need or does it matter?

Urea & ammonium phosphate or something like Fermax?

Also, what is a good size to buy the other additives? Tannin, yeast energizer, pectic enzyme, sparkolloid, etc? It seem as though they are sold either in small packages of a 1-4 oz or by the pound. I'm not starting a vineyard but I would like to be able to make at least a few batches before having to reorder things.


----------



## sour_grapes

Freqflyer: As for nutrient, many around here swear by Fermaid. It comes in two varieties, Fermaid-O and Fermaid-K. I myself use Nutriferm Advance because that is what my LHBS carries.

I hear you on the quantities of the other ingredients. I think the larger amounts are worth it, because (at least where I live), the pound is only a few dollars more than the 2 oz. version of many of these things.


----------



## Hunt

I have a 1500ml bottle of DB that's over a year old now and discovered a small amount of sediment in the bottom. I'm reading that in some red wines this is normal. Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen.


----------



## beggarsu

Hunt said:


> I have a 1500ml bottle of DB that's over a year old now and discovered a small amount of sediment in the bottom. I'm reading that in some red wines this is normal. Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen.



Sounds familiar to someone who just filtered with whole house filter and re-bottled about 100 bottles of wine. 


Kits - no problem even no filtering only get some smudges.
Home fruits/store fruits without filtering - yes.
Home fruits/store fruits with filtering - don't know.



Was the DB originally filtered?

Solutions?
1. filter 
2. or take a year in the carboy to settle (which IMHO is a waste of time unnecessarily locking up drinking it)
3. or just drink as is but some don't look nice on the giveaway after long term. 


For filter I'll see next year from whatever I got if one micron was sufficient - then next test is .5 micron.

But why do you have DB left a year later, (just kidding) , I thought this formula was meant for cruising from step zero.


----------



## dangerdave

I have had no problems with sediment since I started filtering. I filter all my white (or clearer) wines, DB included.


----------



## barbl72

Hunt said:


> I have a 1500ml bottle of DB that's over a year old now and discovered a small amount of sediment in the bottom. I'm reading that in some red wines this is normal. Just wondering if anyone else has had this happen.



Wait. What? You have a bottle of DB that's over a year old?


----------



## willie

Starting our 3rd Batch of DB Original today and was thinking of adding bentonite to the must when I add the yeast tomorrow. Thoughts?

A question about filtering. Using a funnel and paper towels work or not? Oh yeh was thinking about the Vinbrite Wine filter also. We tried our coffee filters and the wine just wont go through them very well. We don't make a lot of wine at least not yet so I can't justify an expensive pump and filter system right now.

Will


----------



## dangerdave

I use the Vinbrite filter. It works perfectly! And if you're just filtering one batch at a time, it's also simple and inexpensive.


----------



## willie

Thanks for the comment on the Vinvbrite. I will get one. 
Can you comment on this? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Starting our 3rd Batch of DB Original today and was thinking of adding bentonite to the must when I add the yeast tomorrow. Thoughts?


----------



## dangerdave

Willie, I will refer you to my comparative study I did on just this subject:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/bentonite-sparkolloid-comparative-study-31849/

Since you are getting a new batch started, you should join in the DB contest:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f22/wmt-unofficial-dragon-blood-variant-contest-45315/


----------



## willie

Ok lets see if I got this right. I will be adding the bentonite to the wine along with the Sparkolloid after I have racked it out of the primary fermentation bucket into the carboy?

Will


----------



## dangerdave

When I use bentonite, which I typically do for my white wines, it gets added to the primary, just like most all wine kits have you do. Here's a good article from Winemaker's Academy that explains how and why to use bentonite. http://winemakersacademy.com/bentonite-clarify-wine/

They explain it a lot better and faster than I could. Just follow the instructions if you have them, add the bentonite to your primary, and use the sparkolloid after fementation is complete in the fining stage. I know in the article it says to hydrate the bentonite before use, but I typically just sprinkle it into the primary at the very beginning (like the kits advise, it's the first thing you do) with about a gallon of very warm water, while stirring vigorously for several minutes. Then proceed with your recipe from there.


----------



## willie

This is why I got confused it's from E.C. Kraus.
How Is Bentonite Used?
Bentonite is relatively easy to use. You start out by mixing it with water into a slurry. The slurry will have the consistency of a thin, watery cement mix. A dose of the slurry mix is then stirred into the wine. It should also be noted here that the Bentonite should not be added to the wine until the fermentation is complete. 

And I do remember my Raspberry Merlot Kit said to put it in the bucket at the start of fermentation. Crazy. There sure is a lot to this hobby.
I don't feel all that confident in my wine making to be entering in a contest just yet. Thanks Dave. 

Will











c.


----------



## dangerdave

There are a lot of experts who will tell you when you _must_ add it to your wine, but the truth about bentonite is that it _can_ be added to your wine at any time. Pick an expert and do what they say. You can't go wrong.

Don't sweat it, Willie. Confidence comes through practice. Then, at some point you will well remember, you realize that in wine making, there are only a few concrete rules. The rest is a strange combination of opinion, possibility, and conjecture.


----------



## go_mustangs

Got it in the carboy stabilized/degassed/sparkolloid, off to Mexico in the morning. Thanks for the help. I'll report the outcome once I return and finish it off.


----------



## bkisel

willie said:


> This is why I got confused it's from E.C. Kraus.
> How Is Bentonite Used?
> Bentonite is relatively easy to use. You start out by mixing it with water into a slurry. The slurry will have the consistency of a thin, watery cement mix. A dose of the slurry mix is then stirred into the wine. It should also be noted here that the Bentonite should not be added to the wine until the fermentation is complete.
> 
> And I do remember my Raspberry Merlot Kit said to put it in the bucket at the start of fermentation. Crazy. There sure is a lot to this hobby.
> I don't feel all that confident in my wine making to be entering in a contest just yet. Thanks Dave.
> 
> Will



All of the 10 kits I've done has had bentonite slurry as the first thing added to the primary bucket. I've read that besides helping in clearing bentonite in the primary helps to circulate/perk the yeast up and down in the bucket to aid fermentation.

I have not used bentonite in making either of my two DB batches and both batches fermented dry, turned out clear and tasted great without any filtering.


----------



## cheesehead

dangerdave said:


> Yes, we've tried that one, too. Pretty good, but we prefer the muscato.


 I also added some greenapple reisling to my pineapple-strawberry-mango-peach-banana TropiGolDaze purely to take up some headspace that was created after racking and decided to try a mixture in a glass, WOW i think i stumbled onto a new future batch, just wonder how many more fruits i could fit into my recipes, lol


----------



## jojabri

Hey all you DB makers! Just wanted to give you a heads up on the upcoming (unofficial) WMT Dragon Blood Variant contest. More info here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f22/wmt-unofficial-dragon-blood-variant-contest-45315/

Could be loads of fun, and who knows, you could be the next winner!


----------



## freqflyer

I'm getting ready to make my first batch of DB. My local Walmart has two types of fruits. I'm looking for suggestions on which one to use.

Strawberry, peach, mango, and pineapple. 4 poounds for $8.98. Would two packages work or would 8 pounds be too much for a six gallon batch?

Blueberry, strawberry, raspberry. 3 pounds for $9.97.

What are your suggestions?


----------



## jojabri

freqflyer said:


> I'm getting ready to make my first batch of DB. My local Walmart has two types of fruits. I'm looking for suggestions on which one to use.
> 
> Strawberry, peach, mango, and pineapple. 4 poounds for $8.98. Would two packages work or would 8 pounds be too much for a six gallon batch?
> 
> Blueberry, strawberry, raspberry. 3 pounds for $9.97.
> 
> What are your suggestions?




I've done both. As a general rule, you can't use "too much" fruit in a DB unless you're really going overboard. I know a lot of folks double to 2 pounds of fruit per gallon as a standard. The more fruit, the more fruit flavor.

The tropical one is really good! Pineapple and mango tend to throw a lot of lees, just so you know. Sometimes, I use pineapple juice either as a substitute or addition.

The beauty in Dragon Blood variants is there are really no wrong answers and you can let your creativity take over.


----------



## calvin

jojabri said:


> I've done both. As a general rule, you can't use "too much" fruit in a DB unless you're really going overboard. I know a lot of folks double to 2 pounds of fruit per gallon as a standard. The more fruit, the more fruit flavor.
> 
> The tropical one is really good! Pineapple and mango tend to throw a lot of lees, just so you know. Sometimes, I use pineapple juice either as a substitute or addition.
> 
> The beauty in Dragon Blood variants is there are really no wrong answers and you can let your creativity take over.



I'd take her advice. I'm just glad she is judging the dragon blood contest. Pretty sure she would beat us all!


----------



## jojabri

calvin said:


> I'd take her advice. I'm just glad she is judging the dragon blood contest. Pretty sure she would beat us all!



I've said it before and I'll say it again, I LOVE the Dragon Blood recipe! It suits me, personally, on so many levels.

1) CHEAP! My cheapest batch was about 65 cents per bottle. Now that I'm getting fruit free/on the cheap from the produce stand, it's gonna be even better! I have to mention that I am a hardcore money saver, I coupon, deal hunt, anything I can do to save a buck. Making DB has saved me LOADS of money versus our drinking habits and paying a liquor store.

2) FAST! My personal best was 3 weeks. Also because it's fast, you can use plastic instead of glass. Perhaps it's a sin, but I use 3 and 5 gal water bottles from Wal-Mart.

3) Creativity. Seriously, read the directions... whatever fruit, whatever citrus. You can make it from whatever fruit is in season, which means on sale (going back to point 1). You could try til you die to make every variant imaginable, and you'd never do it.

4) TASTY!!!! <- Self explanatory. 

5) I'm sure I could think of other reasons

I don't claim to be a DB expert by any means, but I pretty much dabble in what I can make off the grocery store shelves, and BD defo falls into that category. I do this simply because smart shopping (sales/coupons/incentives) can make it affordable and sometimes downright CHEAP, so I can save money for equipment upgrades and perhaps some kits.

TBH, I'm just stupid lucky that I got to be a judge for the DB contest. My entry to the Welch's contest was just me playing around because I started way after everyone else did, so I was just doing it "in spirit". A few forum members convinced me to join in, so I did. AND if you guys saw how rinky-dink my wine making area is, I'm guessing a good 90% of the members here would either laugh of gasp in horror. *insert crossed fingers here for getting the house we're looking at that WILL have a whole wine/beer making room, prayers and positive vibes appreciated*


----------



## calvin

Good luck getting the new house! Hope it works out for you. Sounds like it has everything you could want. A winemaking room


----------



## jojabri

Okay, last post for the night: In reference to this DB query:



calvin said:


> Anyone try sweetening there dragon blood with Splenda or other no calorie sweetener to make a "diet dragon blood". I've noticed since I've been drinking a lot more wine I've been packing on pounds. And I sure as hell don't want to drink less wine.





Julie said:


> I think the artificial sweeteners was giving off an off taste, I can't be sure of that but I know there have been members who bottle their wines dry and just sweeten with Splenda as they open the bottle.





jojabri said:


> Hrm, well, tell yah what. I have a 18 gal batch of blackberry db that will be going to demijohn and carboys tomorrow. I'll make a 1 gal experiment using Splena when I back sweeten. I don't mind playing guinea pig.





calvin said:


> Cool. Let us know how it turns out please



Tonight I cracked open 3 bottles of the blackberry DB, 1 was back sweetened with Splenda (A), 1 was not back sweetened but had Splenda added at pouring (B), the 3rd was straight sugar at back sweetening (C). They were bot bottles on 5/23/14 so it's only been a few weeks.

My conclusion is that with this experiment there was very little difference between bottle A and bottle B. Bottle C was great (I love Blackberry DB)! A and B both had the Splenda aftertaste, but A was a bit more prominent than B.


If you really are adamant about watching your sugar intake, using Splenda or another sugar substitute is a viable option. That being said, you have to take the "diet-y" taste with it. If you are already a regular user of a sugar substitute, this would be no issue. Being that it was only a 1 gallon experiment, I will try to open another bottle later and compare again. Who knows what Splenda would do after some time is involved.

My personal opinion for the time being is: Bottle without back sweetening and add at pouring if you are wanting to use a sugar substitute.


----------



## TinyPirate

Since alcohol is calories I'm not sure why you'd bother skimping on what would be... what.. less than a teaspoon of sugar per glass anyway?


----------



## freqflyer

jojabri said:


> I've done both. As a general rule, you can't use "too much" fruit in a DB unless you're really going overboard. I know a lot of folks double to 2 pounds of fruit per gallon as a standard. The more fruit, the more fruit flavor.
> 
> The tropical one is really good! Pineapple and mango tend to throw a lot of lees, just so you know. Sometimes, I use pineapple juice either as a substitute or addition.
> 
> The beauty in Dragon Blood variants is there are really no wrong answers and you can let your creativity take over.



Will the extra lees cause a problem or just take longer to clear. Also, did you replace the water with pineapple juice? If so how much?


----------



## jojabri

freqflyer said:


> Will the extra lees cause a problem or just take longer to clear. Also, did you replace the water with pineapple juice? If so how much?



The extra lees aren't really a problem, but it will slightly decrease your yield and generally take a bit more time to clear. 

As stated before, there are so many variations to make, that there are few wrong answers. With the pineapple juice, you can substitute that for the lemon juice (two cans of pineapple covers the acidity of the 1 bottle of lemon juice pretty well), or you can just add a can. It will "up" your acidity a bit if you just add it, but not drastically.


----------



## bkisel

FYI... More positive feedback from a couple who tried a bottle of my DB (I label it Lemon Berry Wine) that I had given them a week ago. Liked it enough to ask for the recipe. Interestingly Barbara generally likes a sweeter wine and Will a dryer wine yet both almost raved about the DB I gave them.


----------



## cheesehead

freqflyer said:


> I'm getting ready to make my first batch of DB. My local Walmart has two types of fruits. I'm looking for suggestions on which one to use.
> 
> Strawberry, peach, mango, and pineapple. 4 poounds for $8.98. Would two packages work or would 8 pounds be too much for a six gallon batch?
> 
> Blueberry, strawberry, raspberry. 3 pounds for $9.97.
> 
> What are your suggestions?


 go for it !!! I Just finished a batch using the above fruits-S-P-M-P 12 lbs plus an additional 2 1/2 lbs of strawberries for 6 gallon batch and substituted pineapple juice and orange juice for the real lemon although i did add about 24 oz of lemon juice to keep it inline with the DB recipes for contest purposes,lol- and it was just bottled last weekend. it came out with a golden/ copperish color and deep fruit taste with a smooth kick,12.5% abv-- so far a hit with those that were fortunate to taste the 2 bottles i uncorked that nite. and yes it did take a while to clear, actually hit it with 2 rounds of sparkelloid and multiple (3) filterings with the whole house filter (1 micron) when all was said and done i had actually made approx 7 gals after all rackings and filterings and bottled 35 bottles of pure golden goodness, Good luck and report back on your endeavor


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> I'm getting ready to make my first batch of DB. My local Walmart has two types of fruits. I'm looking for suggestions on which one to use.
> 
> Strawberry, peach, mango, and pineapple. 4 poounds for $8.98. Would two packages work or would 8 pounds be too much for a six gallon batch?
> 
> Blueberry, strawberry, raspberry. 3 pounds for $9.97.
> 
> What are your suggestions?



I suggest, _for the first batch_, you use six pounds of the triple berry blend; stick to the DB recipe as found in the first post of this thread. 

Good luck!


----------



## Rosa321

cheesehead said:


> go for it !!! I Just finished a batch using the above fruits-S-P-M-P 12 lbs plus an additional 2 1/2 lbs of strawberries for 6 gallon batch and substituted pineapple juice and orange juice for the real lemon although i did add about 24 oz of lemon juice to keep it inline with the DB recipes for contest purposes,lol- and it was just bottled last weekend. it came out with a golden/ copperish color and deep fruit taste with a smooth kick,12.5% abv-- so far a hit with those that were fortunate to taste the 2 bottles i uncorked that nite. and yes it did take a while to clear, actually hit it with 2 rounds of sparkelloid and multiple (3) filterings with the whole house filter (1 micron) when all was said and done i had actually made approx 7 gals after all rackings and filterings and bottled 35 bottles of pure golden goodness, Good luck and report back on your endeavor




Hmmm....... I have a triple berry DB clearing now. I used strawberry, blackberry, and raspberry. I hit it once with super kleer, and once with pectic enzyme. It's still not clear, and it's been a few months.

Does anybody else recommend using super kleer again? I don't want to strip flavor, but my fear is that it wont clear in time for late summer drinking :-( 

Could there possibly be a starch haze? I didn't think so, but I'm thinking maybe another enzyme might be in order.....


----------



## freqflyer

Do you recommend a 1 micron filter or 5 micron filter for db?


----------



## willie

Just finished filtering 2nd batch of DB using our new Vinbrite filter kit. I have to report it worked great and the wine is clear and ready to bottle. 
Our 3rd batch of DB looks like it has just gone to dry at .990. This is the original Wyman Three Berry Blend that I started with an SG of 1.084.

Will


----------



## bkisel

willie said:


> Just finished filtering 2nd batch of DB using our new Vinbrite filter kit. I have to report it worked great and the wine is clear and ready to bottle.
> Our 3rd batch of DB looks like it has just gone to dry at .990. This is the original Wyman Three Berry Blend that I started with an SG of 1.084.
> 
> Will



How long did it take to filter your DB (assuming 6 gallons, right?)? Can the filter pads be rinsed and reused?

BTW, my two DB batches were bottled unfiltered and have not dropped any sediment.

Thanks...


----------



## jojabri

Oh my glob! Cracked open a bottle of my tropical DB that has been aging in bottle 6 months. It's SPECTACULAR! Much better than it originally was fresh out of the carboy! A tad over sweet, but just a tad. I suppose next round I should knock the sugar down just a bit when back sweetening.

I'm in love again.... aaah, and love is sweet!


----------



## cheesehead

Rosa321 said:


> Hmmm....... I have a triple berry DB clearing now. I used strawberry, blackberry, and raspberry. I hit it once with super kleer, and once with pectic enzyme. It's still not clear, and it's been a few months.
> 
> Does anybody else recommend using super kleer again? I don't want to strip flavor, but my fear is that it wont clear in time for late summer drinking :-(
> 
> Could there possibly be a starch haze? I didn't think so, but I'm thinking maybe another enzyme might be in order.....


 
I had this issue with my last batch not clearing quickly after using sparkelloid and it was due to the pectic haze so i added a 2nd dose of the enzyme and let it sit for 2 weeks, it cleared nicely and i was able to filter the rest with a 1 micron filter. Patience!!!! is what i keep telling myself , but its so darn hard to practice in this hobby, lol


----------



## bkisel

jojabri said:


> Oh my glob! Cracked open a bottle of my tropical DB that has been aging in bottle 6 months. It's SPECTACULAR! Much better than it originally was fresh out of the carboy! A tad over sweet, but just a tad. I suppose next round I should knock the sugar down just a bit when back sweetening.
> 
> I'm in love again.... aaah, and love is sweet!



That's great to know but I can't see any bottle of my DB lasting 6 months!


----------



## fabrictodyefor

jojabri said:


> Oh my glob! Cracked open a bottle of my tropical DB that has been aging in bottle 6 months. It's SPECTACULAR! Much better than it originally was fresh out of the carboy! A tad over sweet, but just a tad. I suppose next round I should knock the sugar down just a bit when back sweetening.
> 
> I'm in love again.... aaah, and love is sweet!



So now maybe I'll thief a taste of my tropical DB. I used pumpkinman's recipe for Tropical Daze and was not very happy with the outcome. It's been sitting in a car boy since 4/20. I haven't back sweetened yet as I wasn't sure I was going to like it! I'll let you know!


----------



## willie

bkisel said:


> How long did it take to filter your DB (assuming 6 gallons, right?)? Can the filter pads be rinsed and reused?
> 
> BTW, my two DB batches were bottled unfiltered and have not dropped any sediment.
> 
> Thanks...



Bill, as for how long it took to filter the wine with the Vinbrite kit I can only guess about 20-30 min. I didn't watch the time. Just went about doing a few other things till it was done. And the pamphlet that came with it said do not reuse the filter. Six filters came with the new kit. 

Will











v


----------



## Rosa321

cheesehead said:


> I had this issue with my last batch not clearing quickly after using sparkelloid and it was due to the pectic haze so i added a 2nd dose of the enzyme and let it sit for 2 weeks, it cleared nicely and i was able to filter the rest with a 1 micron filter. Patience!!!! is what i keep telling myself , but its so darn hard to practice in this hobby, lol



Baaaaah!!!!! I racked, added pectic enzyme and degassed again (in case that was an issue) a few Weeks ago. No improvement yet :-( 
I don't mind having patience.... I just don't know enough yet to know if it's normal or if something is wrong. I guess I'll just keep hanging in there. Maybe it will make a nice fall wine haha


----------



## jojabri

bkisel said:


> That's great to know but I can't see any bottle of my DB lasting 6 months!



I think this was maybe my 3rd or 4th attempt of a BD style. So it's a total noob wine. But waiting really was worth it!

I take 4 bottles out of each batch to let age. Its hard to look at all that deliciousness and not pop the cork. Apparently patience is a virtue, even with DB's.


----------



## freqflyer

jojabri said:


> Oh my glob! Cracked open a bottle of my tropical DB that has been aging in bottle 6 months. It's SPECTACULAR! Much better than it originally was fresh out of the carboy! A tad over sweet, but just a tad. I suppose next round I should knock the sugar down just a bit when back sweetening.
> 
> I'm in love again.... aaah, and love is sweet!



How much sugar did you add to it?


----------



## jojabri

freqflyer said:


> How much sugar did you add to it?



I think it was 3/4 cup per gal. I made a simple syrup


----------



## freqflyer

I just started my first batch. The specific gravity isn't quite right. 

I used 45 oz of lemon juice due to the packaging of the lemon juice. I read where 2 cups of sugar equals a pound, so I bought a 10 pound bag of sugar. I measured out 20 cups per the recipe. The specific gravity was low. I ened up using the whole 10 pounds which measure to just over 23 cups. I got a reading of 1.072. Should I add more sugar? It's sitting now with the berries in it.


----------



## calvin

That will put you just under 11% abv if it ferments to 0.990. Let it sit overnight and stir really well then check sg again. Maybe the sugar isn't dissolved completely? My notes show 24.5 cups of sugar total. Including the 4.5 C for back sweetening. I've been very happy with the results of my db.


----------



## TinyPirate

One month on! Gave the blackcurrant a go! I like it, fruity and nice. Not complex, just nice, easy drinking. Next time I think I will chuck some oak in to give it some nice body.


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> I just started my first batch. The specific gravity isn't quite right.
> 
> I used 45 oz of lemon juice due to the packaging of the lemon juice. I read where 2 cups of sugar equals a pound, so I bought a 10 pound bag of sugar. I measured out 20 cups per the recipe. The specific gravity was low. I ened up using the whole 10 pounds which measure to just over 23 cups. I got a reading of 1.072. Should I add more sugar? It's sitting now with the berries in it.



On my first batch I had to use the whole 10 pounds (23 cups like you say) to get to 1.074-1.075ish. I forget what the SG was with just the 20 cups but it was below the 1.075. With my second batch I just poured in the whole bag to begin with and my SG measured 1.076. 

If it were me I would measure again and if need be add more sugar to set my starting SG @ 1.075 (or more ifin you want a hotter finished DB).


----------



## Rosa321

TinyPirate said:


> One month on! Gave the blackcurrant a go! I like it, fruity and nice. Not complex, just nice, easy drinking. Next time I think I will chuck some oak in to give it some nice body.
> 
> View attachment 16222



Looks great!! 
Love the color ;-)


----------



## dangerdave

Just remember, everyone, that the fruit has sugar in it, too. And different fruits have different levels of sugar. When you add your granulated sugar or simple syrup to get your OG, this does not include the natural sugars from your fruit. I imagine there is a way to calculate the added sugars from the friut by measuring the SG of the fruit juices and how much you would get from each pound of fruit, etc., but I have never tried to figure it out. That is why I try not to drive the OG up overly high, so the DB doesn't come out too 'hot'. The 1.075 OG (from the recipe) was the _balance_ I reached over numerous test batches when I first started making DB with the triple berry mix---and _balance_ is the key to making good wine.


----------



## NoobVinter

Hi everyone. I'm a Noob and had some questions about DB.

How do I wash and sanitize the fresh berries?

And

What should the Ph be before pitching the yeast?

Any thoughts before I ruin this batch.?

Take care everyone, good luck with your ferms.

nooB





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----------



## NoobVinter

Well, change of plans. I just put six pounds of fresh berries in the freezer. I'll read more for the four days and talk with you guys before starting.


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----------



## dangerdave

NoobVinter said:


> Hi everyone. I'm a Noob and had some questions about DB.
> 
> How do I wash and sanitize the fresh berries?
> 
> And
> 
> What should the Ph be before pitching the yeast?
> 
> Any thoughts before I ruin this batch.?


 
The berries do not need to be washed. If they've been frozen, don't try it. Follow the instructions in the recipe just as if they were store-bought, however, you will add one extra step. When the must is all mixed up and the fruit is in the bag(s) and in the fermenter, since the fruit is fresh, you need to sanitize your must by adding a small amount of potassium metabisulphite. Do you have powder or tablets? The powdered sulphite that I use comes in a bag with clear instructions on it as to how much to add per gallon of juice or per pound of fruit. After adding this you will then wait 24 hour before pitching the yeast.

Don't worry about the pH. If your making it according to the recipe, it will come out well balanced abd delicious. And you can sweeten it to your particular taste.

Ruin it? Confidence is also a valuable---and often underrated---ingredient in wine making. You will do fine. This recipe is almost-nearly-virtually-completely fool-proof.


----------



## NoobVinter

Will somewhere in the middle of these ranges work with DB:

Ph 3.0–4.2
TA from 4.5–10.0 g/L, and 
15–28 ºBrix

I guess there's one way to find out....



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----------



## NoobVinter

@ DangerDave: Sorry man, I posted again before realizing that you replied. Thank you so much Dave for giving me some guidance. I tend to over complicate things sometimes and this is all new. I bought the fresh because I got a good deal on them. I never considered the impact. This is my first time.

I will leave the chemistry alone for another rainy day. Your post got me back on track. 

Have a great night Dave!! 


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----------



## dangerdave

I learned to make wine from the awesome folks right here on this forum. You can search the web over, but you will not find a kinder, more patient group of creative and enthusiastic wine makers than right here. I'm just paying it back.

No question is ever too "noob" for us. We want to you succeed, then come back and tell us how wonderful we were for helping you.  Good luck with the wine!


----------



## willie

dangerdave said:


> I learned to make wine from the awesome folks right here on this forum. You can search the web over, but you will not find a kinder, more patient group of creative and enthusiastic wine makers than right here. I'm just paying it back.
> 
> No question is ever too "noob" for us. We want to you succeed, then come back and tell us how wonderful we were for helping you.  Good luck with the wine!



Hey Dave, this is a perfect example of one of the things to do when your retired. 
God Bess

Will


----------



## NoobVinter

Good morning everyone. Noobs first batch of DB. Step 1.




Thanks for the help DangerDave! It already smells great. Take care everyone, have a great weekend.

Noob.


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----------



## freqflyer

I'm on day three with my first batch. The fermentation seems to be slowing down a bit. It is still fizzing but it doesn't have the head on it anymore when I open the container. Here are my numbers from each day. Am I on track with what everyone else seems to be getting?

Start 79 degrees 1.077
Day 1 81 degrees 1.065
Day 2 79 degrees 1.044
Day 3 79 degrees 1.030


----------



## fabrictodyefor

looks good to me! I prefer a little slower ferment, and as long as it is continuing to work it is doing fine! DB is a fast wine, but there is still a little patience involved.


----------



## NoobVinter

I think mine is stuck. It fizzled out....S&G is stuck at 1.06.....what do I do?


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----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> I'm on day three with my first batch. The fermentation seems to be slowing down a bit. It is still fizzing but it doesn't have the head on it anymore when I open the container. Here are my numbers from each day. Am I on track with what everyone else seems to be getting?
> 
> Start 79 degrees 1.077
> Day 1 81 degrees 1.065
> Day 2 79 degrees 1.044
> Day 3 79 degrees 1.030



Looks like you're going faster than what I did for my first batch but I think you're fine. 

My first batch notes follow...

Started Monday 02/24/2014

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds
Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%
Day 16 (Tuesday) Racked to Bubbler from glass carboy to get off of clearing sediment. Wine looks pretty clear but will probably drop a bit more sediment. Tasted good even at this early stage.
Day 28 (Wednesday 3/26/14) Bottled 30.5 equivalent. / Some very fine sediment on bottom. Did not suck up but next time rack to bucket to bottle. / Steal taste – thought Janet would say a bit tart and want sweetened but.. surprise… she liked it as is! / Janet and I split the .5 bottle. Very pleased! We would rate as 8.5 on a scale of 1-10.

Lessons Learned: a) Use less water. Had ~800ML over 23L/6 gallon. b) Maybe degas in a bucket a little longer so won’t have to hand vacuum pump? c) Rack to bucket for bottling to double insure no sediment brought into bottle. d) Would mashing/crushing fruit before adding result in a bit more fruit flavor being extracted?


----------



## calvin

bkisel said:


> Looks like you're going faster than what I did for my first batch but I think you're fine.
> 
> My first batch notes follow...
> 
> Started Monday 02/24/2014
> 
> Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
> Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
> Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
> Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
> Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
> Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds
> Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%
> Day 16 (Tuesday) Racked to Bubbler from glass carboy to get off of clearing sediment. Wine looks pretty clear but will probably drop a bit more sediment. Tasted good even at this early stage.
> Day 28 (Wednesday 3/26/14) Bottled 30.5 equivalent. / Some very fine sediment on bottom. Did not suck up but next time rack to bucket to bottle. / Steal taste – thought Janet would say a bit tart and want sweetened but.. surprise… she liked it as is! / Janet and I split the .5 bottle. Very pleased! We would rate as 8.5 on a scale of 1-10.
> 
> Lessons Learned: a) Use less water. Had ~800ML over 23L/6 gallon. b) Maybe degas in a bucket a little longer so won’t have to hand vacuum pump? c) Rack to bucket for bottling to double insure no sediment brought into bottle. d) Would mashing/crushing fruit before adding result in a bit more fruit flavor being extracted?



I've noticed the fruit flavor to come out more the longer it ages. Otherwise I think more fruit would be the ticket


----------



## NoobVinter

Yep....DB stuck. I don't think it is was in a lag phase. Sourgrapes told me to read up on it. Doesn't matter now though. After three days I went with stuck.

I just read the posts of DB progress. I wish my batch posted numbers like yours. Hahaha. Good for you guys!! Well done, bet it tastes great. I'm gonna get there soon....I hope. 

I racked off lees, back to primary, whipped in some more sugar and air (1.075) and pitched 1118 again.

Fingers crossed.....I don't want to think about the laundry tub drain yet. I just can't bear the thought of it.




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## nealz2k

I have some(mostly strawberry) DB clearing in a carboy and it is SUPER red. I started with sugar and juice up to 1.084-1.086. I think that means 13%-14% ABV. Can't wait to get it sweetened and chilled!


----------



## NoobVinter

Did some reading......apparently using Distilled Water is in the top ten list of reasons causing a "failure to ferment"

Might be the reason the DB didn't take off.....

This is something I should have known isn't it. Well, the penciled in annotation on the printed DB recipe may have cost me $35. 

I realize that failure to ferment can be caused by Several other things, but I won't be using Americas Choice Distilled Water anymore. Lol

Take care, have a good day.




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----------



## fabrictodyefor

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pop in...I hope the added sugar and another yeast packet will do the trick, Noobvintner. I haven't been making wine that long and have never had a stuck ferment, I'm sure my challenge is coming! Did you add additional yeast nutrient? You might investigate the advantages of Go-Ferm or something down those lines. Good Luck, keep us posted.


----------



## Rosa321

Soooo..... Has anyone had issues with their better bottle not being as clear as their glass carboy??? I'm wondering if it doesn't look as clear in the plastic as it did in the glass...

I'm just perplexed and failing to see how it can still look cloudy after all this time.... Has the wine gone bad?? :-( 

I know I know.... I gotta have patience  I racked from glass to better bottle, added pectic enzyme, degassed again for insurance, let it go for a month, and it looks WORSE than when it was in the glass..... It's making me think something is wrong, our my perception is wrong....


----------



## Rosa321

nealz2k said:


> I have some(mostly strawberry) DB clearing in a carboy and it is SUPER red. I started with sugar and juice up to 1.084-1.086. I think that means 13%-14% ABV. Can't wait to get it sweetened and chilled!



It's a beautiful color!!
Don't you want to top it off to keep it from spoiling?? Just a thought! ;-)


----------



## Rosa321

NoobVinter said:


> Did some reading......apparently using Distilled Water is in the top ten list of reasons causing a "failure to ferment"
> 
> Might be the reason the DB didn't take off.....
> 
> This is something I should have known isn't it. Well, the penciled in annotation on the printed DB recipe may have cost me $35.
> 
> I realize that failure to ferment can be caused by Several other things, but I won't be using Americas Choice Distilled Water anymore. Lol
> 
> Take care, have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I know this doesn't help now, but I use the rule, if I wouldn't drink it, then I wouldn't put it in!!! :-D This applies to wine, when i'm cooking (Don't put yucky wine in that I wouldn't drink), as well as wine making (since we don't drink distilled water, I wouldn't put it in). Stick to spring/filtered water that you would drink. Since distilled water tastes 'odd' on its own, I'd imagine it might give the wine an odd taste as well.....

Live and learn! And, much good luck in your future wine making endeavors


----------



## nealz2k

Rosa, should I top with watet or maybe a cheap blush or maybe something else?


----------



## Rosa321

nealz2k said:


> Rosa, should I top with watet or maybe a cheap blush or maybe something else?



You could do either. Personally, I would top with wine so I don't dilute flavor or color.

If you don't have any dragons blood left from this batch, or any bottles reserved, then by all means buy something to top it off.

But I would follow my rule, and if you wouldn't drink the wine, don't throw it in there! lol

Next time start with more in the primary and save a gallon jug so you have some to top off with.


----------



## NoobVinter

fabrictodyefor said:


> Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pop in...I hope the added sugar and another yeast packet will do the trick, Noobvintner. I haven't been making wine that long and have never had a stuck ferment, I'm sure my challenge is coming! Did you add additional yeast nutrient? You might investigate the advantages of Go-Ferm or something down those lines. Good Luck, keep us posted.




I didn't add any additional yeast nutrient. I only used what was called for in the recipe.

Thanks for the information about Go-Ferm.  will check it out!







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----------



## NoobVinter

Rosa321 said:


> I know this doesn't help now, but I use the rule, if I wouldn't drink it, then I wouldn't put it in!!! :-D This applies to wine, when i'm cooking (Don't put yucky wine in that I wouldn't drink), as well as wine making (since we don't drink distilled water, I wouldn't put it in). Stick to spring/filtered water that you would drink. Since distilled water tastes 'odd' on its own, I'd imagine it might give the wine an odd taste as well.....
> 
> 
> 
> Live and learn! And, much good luck in your future wine making endeavors




I see your point and will remember that one. I assumed that Distilled water was better because it was pure water ( free from elements, chemicals etc). But.....like you said live and learn. Thanks for the suggestion, I will stick with spring and filtered water now. 

I wish you much luck with your winemaking adventure also!  take care, have a great day.


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----------



## nealz2k

Rosa321 said:


> You could do either. Personally, I would top with wine so I don't dilute flavor or color.
> 
> If you don't have any dragons blood left from this batch, or any bottles reserved, then by all means buy something to top it off.
> 
> But I would follow my rule, and if you wouldn't drink the wine, don't throw it in there! lol
> 
> Next time start with more in the primary and save a gallon jug so you have some to top off with.



Yea I made about 7 gallons but lost A LOT to the gross lees. Probably the gallon that would have gone into a spare gallon jug.


----------



## Rosa321

nealz2k said:


> Yea I made about 7 gallons but lost A LOT to the gross lees. Probably the gallon that would have gone into a spare gallon jug.



I have a10 gallon primary fermenter bucket. I think that is the standard a Kit comes with. If 7 wasn't enough, just make a note in your files, and next time make 8 

Live and Learn!!

I'm still very much learning, noting, and modifying


----------



## 4score

I have my first DB batch going. I'm in the clearing stage. It's been about a week since I added Sparklloid and I think it's done it's duty. Overall, the carboy looks dark-ish. Certainly very dark compared to my Skeeter sitting next to it. When I put a little in a small glass recently, it definitely looked lighter. I still haven't back-sweetened, so I added a little sugar to the glass and tasted it. Is it common at this "phase" that it tastes somewhat "thin" and almost watery? I read that it improves with a few weeks or a couple months, but I guess I was hoping for more promise. Anyone else recall their tasting notes just after the clearing phase?


----------



## NoobVinter

fabrictodyefor said:


> Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pop in...I hope the added sugar and another yeast packet will do the trick, Noobvintner. I haven't been making wine that long and have never had a stuck ferment, I'm sure my challenge is coming! Did you add additional yeast nutrient? You might investigate the advantages of Go-Ferm or something down those lines. Good Luck, keep us posted.




Hey, hey, hey.....!! Guess what.

A rack off the lees, a whip of some fresh O2, sugar to 1.075, and a another pitch of 1118 did the trick!!! Hahahaha ) I am so happy Fabric!

Ambient: 71 F
Must: 73 F (no brew belt) pitched at 79 F didn't want to stress it it fell a bit but 2 degrees above room I'll take it baby!! Thanks for the support and luck. Have a great night.

24 hrs later....





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----------



## freqflyer

nealz2k said:


> Rosa, should I top with watet or maybe a cheap blush or maybe something else?



You can always go to a craft store and buy some marbles or decorative glass beads. Sanitize them and pour them in to raise the liquid level.


----------



## Medic8106

Has anyone ever added chocolate to a dragon blood batch to give a chocolate/berry wine? I am in the late stages of a Jack Keller strawberry-chocolate wine but that has taken a year to complete. Just wondering if you could add a chocolate flavor and how you would do it to a dragon blood batch?


----------



## NoobVinter

Medic8106 said:


> Has anyone ever added chocolate to a dragon blood batch to give a chocolate/berry wine? I am in the late stages of a Jack Keller strawberry-chocolate wine but that has taken a year to complete. Just wondering if you could add a chocolate flavor and how you would do it to a dragon blood batch?




How about Dark Hershey Syrup before primary fermentation? It would give you flavor and sugar would it not. Do you think the yeast will eat it? I'm just thinking out of the box......how about Hershey Dry powder added to primary......? Sounds good though. 

Good luck!



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----------



## Medic8106

NoobVinter said:


> How about Dark Hershey Syrup before primary fermentation? It would give you flavor and sugar would it not. Do you think the yeast will eat it? I'm just thinking out of the box......how about Hershey Dry powder added to primary......? Sounds good though.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I used dark cocoa powder (Hershey's) in my strawberry chocolate prior to primary fermentation. It contains no sugar as it is baking cocoa. Don't know if syrup would work and not really sure how much I would start with. I used 4 oz of powder for the 1 gallon before.


----------



## dangerdave

Ah, the trials and tribulations of wine making. Ain't it great!

Problem solving is a great skill to learn with your wines. After 122 bathces, I'm yet to have a stuck ferment (good local water, maybe?), but that just means I'll have no idea what to do when it happens.

_Panic_!


----------



## RegarRenill

Long-time lurker, but just as an FYI from other wines, powdered spices like cinnamon r chocolate can take forever to settle out and clear. A much better idea is to go with cacao/coco nibs for chocolate flavor...2 yrs and I'm still waiting on my holiday mead to clear because of the powdered cinnamon, nutmeg and clove (pumpkin spice).


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----------



## dangerdave

Extracts and flavoring work great, both natural and artificial. I have used chocolate extract to flavor wine before. It works great and won't cloud your wine.


----------



## Medic8106

NoobVinter said:


> How about Dark Hershey Syrup before primary fermentation? It would give you flavor and sugar would it not. Do you think the yeast will eat it? I'm just thinking out of the box......how about Hershey Dry powder added to primary......? Sounds good though.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making





dangerdave said:


> Extracts and flavoring work great, both natural and artificial. I have used chocolate extract to flavor wine before. It works great and won't cloud your wine.



I think I am going to go with an extract or flavoring as you suggested. I know my brew shop has that stuff too. I need to get some started! (I will share results sometime)


----------



## NoobVinter

DB Acid Tests Tonight

Ambient: 74 F
Must: 80 F Brew Belt
SG: 1.062
S/P: 36 hrs EC 1118






Tartaric: 0.56

 I'll take it.

Thanks again Danger!!


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----------



## dangerdave

You are most welcome! Enjoy!


----------



## freqflyer

I dropped below 1.000. I removed the fruit and I'm beginning my three day wait. The instructions say to stop stirring but they don't say anything about covering it differently. Do I keep covering it the same way for the next three days or do I need to snap my lid down and add an airlock? I'm concerned because it's not producing much if any co2 to protect the wine.


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> I dropped below 1.000. I removed the fruit and I'm beginning my three day wait. The instructions say to stop stirring but they don't say anything about covering it differently. Do I keep covering it the same way for the next three days or do I need to snap my lid down and add an airlock? I'm concerned because it's not producing much if any co2 to protect the wine.



Notes from my fist DB shows that I dropped below 1.00 on day 9 (SG 0.997). I removed the fruit bag after squeezing [probably gave it one last good stir] and locked down my primary. My notes indicate that I was, at that point, getting a bubble about every 4 seconds. 

REF:

Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
*Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds*
Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%
Day 16 (Tuesday) Racked to Bubbler from glass carboy to get off of clearing sediment. Wine looks pretty clear but will probably drop a bit more sediment. Tasted good even at this early stage.
Day 28 (Wednesday 3/26/14) Bottled 30.5 equivalent. / Some very fine sediment on bottom. Did not suck up but next time rack to bucket to bottle. / Steal taste – thought Janet would say a bit tart and want sweetened but.. surprise… she liked it as is! / Janet and I split the .5 bottle. Very pleased! We would rate as 8.5 on a scale of 1-10.

Lessons Learned: a) Use less water. Had ~800ML over 23L/6 gallon. b) Maybe degas in a bucket a little longer so won’t have to hand vacuum pump? c) Rack to bucket for bottling to double insure no sediment brought into bottle. d) Would mashing/crushing fruit before adding result in a bit more fruit flavor being extracted?


----------



## NoobVinter

bkisel said:


> Notes from my fist DB shows that I dropped below 1.00 on day 9 (SG 0.997). I removed the fruit bag after squeezing [probably gave it one last good stir] and locked down my primary. My notes indicate that I was, at that point, getting a bubble about every 4 seconds.
> 
> REF:
> 
> Day 1 (Monday) DB started SG 1.075
> Day 2 (Tuesday) SG 1.074, Temp 80F +- / Pitched yeast
> Day 5 (Friday) SG 1.040, Temp 80F +-
> Day 7 (Sunday) SG 1.014, Temp 80F +-
> Day 8 (Monday) SG 1.010, Temp 82F +-
> *Day 9 (Tuesday) SG 0.997, Temp 80F +- / Locked down / Bubble every ~4 seconds*
> Day 14 (Sunday) SG 0.992, Temp 80F +- / rack from bucket, stab agents, back sweeten 4.5 cups, clearing agents, stir degassing, started vacuum pump degassing / calculated ABV = 10.76%
> Day 16 (Tuesday) Racked to Bubbler from glass carboy to get off of clearing sediment. Wine looks pretty clear but will probably drop a bit more sediment. Tasted good even at this early stage.
> Day 28 (Wednesday 3/26/14) Bottled 30.5 equivalent. / Some very fine sediment on bottom. Did not suck up but next time rack to bucket to bottle. / Steal taste – thought Janet would say a bit tart and want sweetened but.. surprise… she liked it as is! / Janet and I split the .5 bottle. Very pleased! We would rate as 8.5 on a scale of 1-10.
> 
> Lessons Learned: a) Use less water. Had ~800ML over 23L/6 gallon. b) Maybe degas in a bucket a little longer so won’t have to hand vacuum pump? c) Rack to bucket for bottling to double insure no sediment brought into bottle. d) Would mashing/crushing fruit before adding result in a bit more fruit flavor being extracted?




I'm following you. If I get below a SG < 1 I'm locking it down with a bubbler.




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----------



## bkisel

NoobVinter said:


> I'm following you. If I get below a SG < 1 I'm locking it down with a bubbler.



That is what I did but you should go to the very first post in this thread and check out Dave's instructions in Step 4. For part of my DB making I followed kit making procedures that I found more comfortable to me.


----------



## dangerdave

By all means, do what makes you comfortable. I leave mine just as it was after removing the fruit, lid loose, covered with a towel. Always have. If you're not peeking at it, then the CO2 stays under the lid. Leave it sit, don't stir, and in a few days, proceed.

If that makes you nervous, lock it down and add an airlock. It's _your_ wine, after all.


----------



## TableSeven

So I have to thank Dave. I'm sitting here sipping my 3rd not a kit wine (it's my night time) and it all started with DB. Then I moved on to skeeter pee, made a concord, fortified some and started another batch of skeeter pee, after this will be another DB and we'll see from there. Had I never found the DB recipe..


----------



## Rosa321

freqflyer said:


> You can always go to a craft store and buy some marbles or decorative glass beads. Sanitize them and pour them in to raise the liquid level.



oooh! What a unique idea! 

Do you find the marbles a problem later when you go to rinse the carboy? hehe
Like how do you keep them from going down the drain? 

But I love that idea.....might just have to try it soon!!!!


----------



## bkisel

Rosa321 said:


> oooh! What a unique idea!
> 
> Do you find the marbles a problem later when you go to rinse the carboy? hehe
> Like how do you keep them from going down the drain?
> 
> But I love that idea.....might just have to try it soon!!!!



I'll sometimes use marbles. My sink has a strainer but even so when cleaning a carboy with marbles in it I'll pour into a colander to catch the marbles.


----------



## Rosa321

Another great idea 

Thanks!


----------



## 4score

My 4-berry Dragons Blood cleared (week or so after sparklloid)...still somewhat dark in the 5 gal carboy, but if I pour a sample I can see it's clear. I checked SG and I was at 0.993. I racked to a bucket and was quite conservative, leaving quite a bit behind. I thought the batch needed a little "body" so I added two frozen cans of cranberry concentrate. Tasted better but not nearly there. Added 2 cups of sugar and got much better. I needed to replenish all that I had left behind, so I added a bottle of Twisted Zin and a quart of blueberry juice. Tastes pretty darn good now! Racked back to the carboy. Bottling in another week or so! Took another SG reading to see that I am at 1.01 now.


----------



## NoobVinter

4score said:


> My 4-berry Dragons Blood cleared (week or so after sparklloid)...still somewhat dark in the 5 gal carboy, but if I pour a sample I can see it's clear. I checked SG and I was at 0.993. I racked to a bucket and was quite conservative, leaving quite a bit behind. I thought the batch needed a little "body" so I added two frozen cans of cranberry concentrate. Tasted better but not nearly there. Added 2 cups of sugar and got much better. I needed to replenish all that I had left behind, so I added a bottle of Twisted Zin and a quart of blueberry juice. Tastes pretty darn good now! Racked back to the carboy. Bottling in another week or so! Took another SG reading to see that I am at 1.01 now.




Mine might need body also. Tried some last night. SG 1.002....got curious. Thanks for the idea about juice concentrate and fresh juice. There is a Wholefoods near me that ha so many 100% organic non "from concentrate" juices that I might add to my DB. That blueberry juice sounds good.




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----------



## freqflyer

I racked mine into a carboy today and added the clearing and stabilizing stuff . I came up two bottles over. I have them corked with a vacuvin. Will they keep and clear just like the carboy as long as i keep a vacuum on them?


----------



## beggarsu

freqflyer said:


> I racked mine into a carboy today and added the clearing and stabilizing stuff . I came up two bottles over. I have them corked with a vacuvin. Will they keep and clear just like the carboy as long as i keep a vacuum on them?



Screw tops come in handy here as temp reserve holds.

After fermentation stage I keep reserves in pop bottles and plastic bottles and glass jugs (3 or 4 litres ) of all sizes. I deliberately make more than carboy if not a kit, for topping off. I don't like topping off with water - worst case I might use a water/vodka 11 percent mix but I prefer to have reserve.

Been doing that a long time - don't bother with a vacuum - just seal them with an appropriate lid or whatever , if it's going to be a few weeks time and I'm afraid the seal is dodgy I double seal with saran wrap and an elastic hair band.

Sometime for many batches (maybe last of a batch or a limited 1-2 gallon recipe) I put in some wine in a clear screw top (750 ml) or clear pop bottle 2 litre etc and observe for a few days or a week to see how well I filtered it - then I bottle.
Or I use this method to successively rack off the worst of sediment.


Haven't has any problems with finished wine this way.

---Filtering time -
if you use a whole house filter - you will want to run it all through together (because 100 -150 ml can't get through the filter at the end - which you can use as taster or lump with leftovers - so you don't want to do that twice and 
Also at backsweeten time you do it as a batch - then in the latter case with the increased volume you will definitely need extra bottles of various sizes - screw top or pop bottles while you wait to bottle.
Waste not want not.
Also I batch things when I want to add a clearing agent - I would put the two bottles together in a jug or 2 litre to add clearing agent then separate again,
Also sulphide is a pain because it is very difficult dose small amounts of liquid - in this case I use campden pills (1 -2 pills per gallon is the formula so I might cut one in half for a 2 bottle batch - maybe the other half later before final filtering racking - lots luck trying to measure out grains of sulphide when usage is 1/4 tsp per 6 gallons!
---

I'm getting expert and judging the size of the leftover reserve and selecting the appropriate bottle my - smallest being the airline bottles. 

too many odds and ends it's a bit of a drag siphoning off the top and racking etc. but the plus side I end up with all these small odd sizes in my fridge which I later at leisure do taste tests.

- with small bottles - the slow level "pour' method leaving the dross works better than "siphon".


----------



## Enologo

*First Batch*

Okay I don't know what took me so long but I started my first batch of DB on Saturday. I went with double the fruit but without the bag and it has an honest to goodness cap I've been punching down twice a day. I also skipped the Tannin because I went with oak chips in the primary, anyone else try this??


----------



## dangerdave

My current "perfected version" calls for the addition of 1/3 cup of untoasted American oak in the primary and three tsp of finishing tannin near the end, in addition to everything else in the recipe. This was after nearly three years of tasting and testing.

Beggarsu: I do the same thing. Waste nothing. I have collected a large number of jugs, bottles, and jars for the sole purpose of collecting dregs for topping up later. Some of my leftovers ahve resulted in some very interesting blends, as well.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

4score said:


> My 4-berry Dragons Blood cleared (week or so after sparklloid)...still somewhat dark in the 5 gal carboy, but if I pour a sample I can see it's clear. I checked SG and I was at 0.993. I racked to a bucket and was quite conservative, leaving quite a bit behind. I thought the batch needed a little "body" so I added two frozen cans of cranberry concentrate. Tasted better but not nearly there. Added 2 cups of sugar and got much better. I needed to replenish all that I had left behind, so I added a bottle of Twisted Zin and a quart of blueberry juice. Tastes pretty darn good now! Racked back to the carboy. Bottling in another week or so! Took another SG reading to see that I am at 1.01 now.


I always hate to assume, but I am guessing you have added the sorbate and metabisulfite? And did you just add sugar? Or did you make a simple syrup? I have read, somewhere, that the alcohol will often prevent sugar from completely dissolving and thus the need for simple syrup... just suggestion....


----------



## Enologo

dangerdave said:


> My current "perfected version" calls for the addition of 1/3 cup of untoasted American oak in the primary and three tsp of finishing tannin near the end, in addition to everything else in the recipe. This was after nearly three years of tasting and testing.
> 
> Ah! They do say great minds think alike. That was my thought exactly chips insead of tannin in the pimary and tannin later in the seconary or later on still. I also used American oak approx. 60 or 70 grams though I don't recall if it was toasted or not I'll have to double check when I get home. I also doubled the pectic enzyme since I doubled the fruit. Where do we find the "Perfected version" or is that reciepe written on parchment and locked in the vault.


----------



## freqflyer

I'm mainly just concerned that the vacuvin cork is an acceptable way of keeping a bottle exra while it clears. I gave it another couple of pumps today. It seems to be holding vaccum so I guess it will work as well as with an air lock.

Is that correct.


----------



## NoobVinter

Dragon Blood original recipe well received and given high praises!!

I racked off a bottle from primary, 0.992 before heading out to a dinner party. I funneled in two table spoons of sugr, put a piece of Saran Wrap over the neck, shook the CO2 out, left in the fridge to chill over at the host house.

It didn't last 10 minutes. "Oooh, I could definitely keep drinking this all day, its not to sweet and doesn't make me thirsty," " This has some really nice flavor." "Can you top me off with the rest before dinner." 

Hahaha, it was right out of the primary! 

You rock Dave!!




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----------



## bkisel

Bottle of DB (I call it Lemon Berry wine) was a big hit at last night's supper club. Host actually finished the bottle by pouring a second glass for himself. Love that a decent fruit wine can be made so quickly and economically.


----------



## dangerdave

_You_ guys did it! Bask in the praise! Pat yourselves on the back! Great job!

You can give someone a recipe, but it doesn't make itself. I'm just the messenger.


----------



## barryjo

dangerdave said:


> Ah, the trials and tribulations of wine making. Ain't it great!
> 
> Problem solving is a great skill to learn with your wines. After 122 bathces, I'm yet to have a stuck ferment (good local water, maybe?), but that just means I'll have no idea what to do when it happens.
> 
> _Panic_!


 
I understand there' s a neat website that features all manner of help for just such an occasion.


----------



## beggarsu

freqflyer said:


> I'm mainly just concerned that the vacuvin cork is an acceptable way of keeping a bottle exra while it clears. I gave it another couple of pumps today. It seems to be holding vaccum so I guess it will work as well as with an air lock.
> 
> Is that correct.



Sure it will work but seems a lot of bother for no reason since you keep having to pump it every so often.
You don't need an need airlock on it, you said you stabilized the wine- fermentation is over and you are just storing for 1-3 weeks tops probably 2. 

Just cap it , seal it somehow or put it in a bottle that can be capped and problem is over. Or even saran wrap with rubber band or even plastic and tape it over. 

- or you can use a balloon or double balloon if you want "airlock' though it has not much point. . Balloons are not supposed to be good for long term but I've used them more than two months with no problem , no rubber taste or spoilage, ... but later I realized it was pointless - because they were dead dry - nothing was coming out!!! and I might as well have capped them and /or just released cap every two weeks for gas balance and re-screw.


Small reserves up to a 750 bottle in size I store in the fridge - I think it settles better - "cool stabilization" and preserves better.


----------



## NoobVinter

DB gets bottled soon. 




Steve's AIO took most of the CO2 during the rack. I had some left over in the primary. With some finesse I was able to get a couple clear swigs before clean up. Yum! I slept nicely.... 



Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## willie

NoobVinter said:


> DB gets bottled soon.
> 
> View attachment 16437
> 
> 
> Steve's AIO took most of the CO2 during the rack. I had some left over in the primary. With some finesse I was able to get a couple clear swigs before clean up. Yum! I slept nicely....
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



That's a great looking carboy NoobVinter. Congratulations. We have one that we will be bottling soon also.
Will


----------



## jerryd68

I'm sure that this has been covered in this thread but there is too much to dig through to find it! lol, My question is: I have a 7 gallon primary fermenter but only a 5 gallon carboy as my secondary, I would like to attempt my first batch of DB but only want to end up with 5 gallons in the secondary, what adjustments do I need to make to the original recipe?


----------



## Johngottshall

Bottling batch #2 tonight after work this batch is better than the first. And everyone loved the first batch


----------



## NoobVinter

willie said:


> That's a great looking carboy NoobVinter. Congratulations. We have one that we will be bottling soon also.
> 
> Will




Thanks Will! This is my first attempt. Started out a bit rough, but here we are. Lol best luck with your mate, cheers.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## sour_grapes

jerryd68 said:


> I'm sure that this has been covered in this thread but there is too much to dig through to find it! lol, My question is: I have a 7 gallon primary fermenter but only a 5 gallon carboy as my secondary, I would like to attempt my first batch of DB but only want to end up with 5 gallons in the secondary, what adjustments do I need to make to the original recipe?



My recommendation would be to make it to the original recipe, that is, make 6 gallons. When you rack down to secondary, you will have some left over, but not a whole gallon, due to loss to lees. You could put the extra into, say, two 1-qt Mason jars, and put them in the fridge. Then you can use that to top off if you ever rack the DB, or just drink it, or throw it away.

Or you could adjust the original recipe by multiplying by 5/6, and deal with topping off in another way.


----------



## bkisel

Johngottshall said:


> Bottling batch #2 tonight after work this batch is better than the first. And everyone loved the first batch



That was also my experience. My 2nd batch did use a penta-berry vs. a quad-berry mix and I used a 1/2 cup less sugar for back sweetening vs. the first batch. Oh, and less water so that I didn't end up so far over 6 gallons as I did with the first batch.

So, does the 3rd batch get even better?


----------



## reefman

I agree with Paul. I've gone to the local wine store, buy cheap gallons of wine (usually $9.99 or less.) I use the wine to make Sangria for parties etc. Then keep the gallon jugs for small batches, or extras that wont fit in a carboy.


----------



## Elmer

I find myself with 6lbs of raspberry's that need to get used because I have to clear way in my deep freezer for meat!

I dont want to spend more money on other ingredients, to make 30 more bottles of DB. I am trying to keep it simple, considering I already have 25 bottles of Blue/Rasp, 20 bottles of SP and many bottle of good summer wine. So my summer wine supply is doing well.
so I was thinking straight Raspberry. 

I dont want to make 6 gall w/ 6lbs, that would be too week.
I was thinking 3 gallons and double up the rasp.

having never used straight Raspberry, I am unsure of the flavor for wine.

Has anyone ever done straight Raspberry?
If so was it too light, too harsh?
Any recommendations?


----------



## freqflyer

I want to see if I'm on track for a good batch of wine. As it stands now, I don't care for it very much.

I racked it Saturday. It's seems to be clearing very well. Tonight I tasted some of it. I'm unclear of the wine terminology to describe it, but here goes.

The flavor is good but a bit weak, like it's watered down. Will this improve? How long will it take.

Also, it has a sharp type flavor to it and leaves my tongue numb or tingling. Is this normal and will it go away?


----------



## RotGut76

dangerdave said:


> My current "perfected version" calls for the addition of 1/3 cup of untoasted American oak in the primary and three tsp of finishing tannin near the end, in addition to everything else in the recipe. This was after nearly three years of tasting and testing



Would finishing tannin be the same as the tannins you add in the beginning stage?


----------



## dangerdave

freqflyer said:


> The flavor is good but a bit weak, like it's watered down. Will this improve? How long will it take.
> 
> Also, it has a sharp type flavor to it and leaves my tongue numb or tingling. Is this normal and will it go away?


 
Sounds like you are making true Dragon Blood! 

Seriously, though, it will improve over time. However, this wine---like any other---is not for everyone.

Sugar improves the balance. Time improves the flavor.


----------



## dangerdave

RotGut76 said:


> Would finishing tannin be the same as the tannins you add in the beginning stage?


 
I just use a generic "wine tannin" for my Dragon Blood. No need to get fancy with this one.


----------



## RotGut76

dangerdave said:


> I just use a generic "wine tannin" for my Dragon Blood. No need to get fancy with this one.



Thanks for the quick answer. However, could you please explain how you do this step more in depth?


----------



## beggarsu

RotGut76 said:


> Thanks for the quick answer. However, could you please explain how you do this step more in depth?



http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f2/dangerdaves-dragon-blood-wine-41825/

Recipe

Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon (or larger) primary, add---in this order:


1 bottle (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): More or less lemon juice can be added to your taste, (i.e., if you want to reduce the acid level use less lemon juice). The acid added here will help balance the final wine. Substitutes include any other kind of citrus juice (orange, lime, etc.), or use no citrus at all for a very soft, supple blush.
 Water to about four gallons
 20 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG of around 1.075 after filling to 6 gallons below. This will give you a finished alcohol by volume of about 10%-11%): Add more/less sugar for high/lower desired final ABV. Stir sugar until completely dissolved.
 * 1 tsp. tannin (stir)*
 3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
 1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
 3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
 Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well
 Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!
 6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--availablein most grocery store freezer sections), frozen then thawed, in a fine mesh nylon bag (tied shut), placed in primary (add any extra juice from the fruit as well): Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme. You may also toss the fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and further racking. Dozens of variations on this recipe have been created by simply substituting different or combinations of different fruit.
 Cover primary: Do not snap down the lid or add an airlock. Cover the lid with a cloth or towel.
 Place brew belt (if desired): Keep temp in 68F-80F range. A higher temp will result in a faster fermentation, and a sharper tasting, more colorful wine. A lower temp will produce a paler blush with more fruity aroma and a smoother taste.
 Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...
Step 2: ...


----------



## RotGut76

dangerdave said:


> My current "perfected version" calls for the addition of 1/3 cup of untoasted American oak in the primary and three tsp of finishing tannin near the end, in addition to everything else in the recipe. This was after nearly three years of tasting and testing.
> 
> Beggarsu: I do the same thing. Waste nothing. I have collected a large number of jugs, bottles, and jars for the sole purpose of collecting dregs for topping up later. Some of my leftovers ahve resulted in some very interesting blends, as well.



Thanks Beggarsu but I was referring to to post number 1900 (quoted above) where dangerdave refers to the American oak and finishing tannin.

My question is, is there an additional step where the tannin is added *after* the initial step 1?


----------



## NoobVinter

@RotGut: was wondering about the additional tannin also. I'm going to soak some French White Oak chips in some vodka and dump them in the primary on the next batch. I got the chips from a guy during a Craigslist carboy buying adventure. Lol but I'm still not sure when to add the extra 3 tsp of tannin that Dave uses. I have no doubt that we will soon have the secret hahaha.

Your recipe rocks Dave! I'm sharing it in eastern PA and DE. Nothing but smiles and good conversations when it gets poured. Only shared one bottle out of the primary, hehe, but I know it's just gonna get better.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bakervinyard

*Raspberry wine*



Elmer said:


> I find myself with 6lbs of raspberry's that need to get used because I have to clear way in my deep freezer for meat!
> 
> I dont want to spend more money on other ingredients, to make 30 more bottles of DB. I am trying to keep it simple, considering I already have 25 bottles of Blue/Rasp, 20 bottles of SP and many bottle of good summer wine. So my summer wine supply is doing well.
> so I was thinking straight Raspberry.
> 
> I dont want to make 6 gall w/ 6lbs, that would be too week.
> I was thinking 3 gallons and double up the rasp.
> 
> having never used straight Raspberry, I am unsure of the flavor for wine.
> 
> Has anyone ever done straight Raspberry?
> If so was it too light, too harsh?
> Any recommendations?



Elmer I made a straight Raspberry wine. I followed the recipe from the book titled "Mary's Recipes" Came out pretty good. I didn't know what to do with it so I blended it with 3 gallons of DB. Using it for Sangria for the summer. Bakervinyard


----------



## dangerdave

I usually add the finishing tannins after the first racking following clearing. In other words, add the clearing agent, wait at least a week and rack add tannin, three tsp.


----------



## Elmer

bakervinyard said:


> Elmer I made a straight Raspberry wine. I followed the recipe from the book titled "Mary's Recipes" Came out pretty good. I didn't know what to do with it so I blended it with 3 gallons of DB. Using it for Sangria for the summer. Bakervinyard




I am confused.
the wine "came out pretty good"
but
you "didnt know what to do with it"

if it was good, why didnt you drink it on its own?

but I digress.
If you enjoyed it in any capacity all the better.

I might just go experimental and make a 3 gallon batch and throw some vanilla bean in there


----------



## upsidedown

nealz2k said:


> Rosa, should I top with watet or maybe a cheap blush or maybe something else?


I know this is bad practice but I have topped not topped used water used dragon blood etc.... and racked off into individual bottles straight from Carboy as needed. I have not noticed any difference in colour taste or smell. I suppose if you were to leave this to bulk age for a long period of time it would make a difference.But oxidation seems to have very little affect on this fruit wine in the short term(it never lasts long at our place). But if you can top up always to up


----------



## SouthernChemist

upsidedown said:


> I know this is bad practice but I have topped not topped used water used dragon blood etc.... and racked off into individual bottles straight from Carboy as needed. I have not noticed any difference in colour taste or smell. I suppose if you were to leave this to bulk age for a long period of time it would make a difference.But oxidation seems to have very little affect on this fruit wine in the short term(it never lasts long at our place). But if you can top up always to up



It depends on a number of factors (including temperature and just how much headspace you have), but I think some people tend to assume oxidation/degradation occurs faster than it really does. In the short term, you can probably get away with it.


----------



## maurtis

Thanks a ton for the wonderful recipe, Dave! I just backsweetened my first batch of DB yesterday. The wine was already crystal clear, 14 days from start! So I figure I will let it sit in the carboy for another week while I am out of town and will bottle when I get back next Thursday.

I cannot wait to kick back with a glass of chilled Dragon Blood! I tried some while racking yesterday and it was surprisingly good already, so this should turn out well.

I made a couple gallons of various meads, but this is my first fruit wine. Already thinking of my next variant, tropical sounds good...


----------



## freqflyer

*back sweetening question*

The instructions say to add sugar and stir until completley dissolved. I have also read wear a simple syrup is used to sweeten wine. Two parts sugar to one part water heated until disolved. Is this how you sweeten DB or do you just dump the sugar in and stir?

Also, is there any benifit or detriment to syphoning off a little bit of wine to heat and make the simple syrup with to avoid adding more water?


----------



## JetJockey

Freqflyer,
I have tried the simple syrup and just adding sugar and stirring. To ME, I like the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) and prefer to just dump the required sugar in and stir until dissolved. First, I noticed no difference in taste or ease of dissolving between the simple syrup and granular sugar because the sugar concentration is respectively low. If one were trying to dissolve sugar to saturation, then the simple syrup would be advantageous. Second and more importantly, dumping and stirring is easier, less time, and helps get any remaining CO2 out.

Using wine to make the simple syrup is something I tried as well. It gets rid of the alcohol in the wine by cooking. Again I didn't notice anything that led me to believe it was worth the time and effort. also, the amount of wine needed for the simple syrup is so small and being 'cooked' off' that equal amounts of water will not dilute your DB to any measurable extent.

Just my $0.02!


----------



## dangerdave

I agree with Bob ^^^


----------



## beggarsu

Making some* Dragons Blue * 6 gallons with 3000 gm (6.6 lbs) of 5 Canadian Wild Blueberries frozen packs (600 gm) (President's Choice - $3.97 per bag regular price).
As per my method , I squeeze the fruit bag for 5 days but on day 5 or 6, I dump the bag into the must. I like to get every last bit of fruit sugar and fruit flavour into the must. I can see the difference as it sparkles up more vigorously after I dump the fruit bag.

The blueberries were more difficult as they became a fine powder. These kinds of things are best filtered out in the first racking but ordinary household wire filters will clog up. but what works is cheesecloth - I use a large double strainer saucepan affair with a cheesecloth to first pass the thick must through then it goes into the carboy straining through wire filters to catch anything that got through the first pass.
.. 
Works well.
--
Had my first Dragon Blood (4-berry packs ) on the deck in the sunshine with guests - just what it's for - a cooler. One of them normally preferred beer but was converted immediately - it went over very well - the balance of berry and tartness - the several guests all wanted bottles to take home.


----------



## freqflyer

*When to back sweeten.*

The instructions say way a week, rack and back sweeten. Mine will have been in the carboy a week tomorrow. It is clearing nicely but not completely clear. Do I have have to wait until it's completely clear or can I back sweeten now and let it sit in a carboy until it's clear. I'm going to be pretty busy for the next week or so and tomorrow I have the free time to do it.


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> The instructions say way a week, rack and back sweeten. Mine will have been in the carboy a week tomorrow. It is clearing nicely but not completely clear. Do I have have to wait until it's completely clear or can I back sweeten now and let it sit in a carboy until it's clear. I'm going to be pretty busy for the next week or so and tomorrow I have the free time to do it.



Personally I would follow the SG and not the number of days in the instructions in determining phases.

Because I started with RJS kits I generally back sweeten right after I've stabilized. I'm talking minutes after adding and stirring in the stabilizing ingredients. Works great ifin you're sure of your back sweetening amount. So, my answer to your back sweetening question is "yes" but you will stir things up and lengthen the clearing process. If I were you, at this point, I'd let it clear and schedule the back sweetening before bottling.


----------



## freqflyer

I think you misunderstood Bill. I'm going to rack it, then back sweeten. Then let is sit in a carboy until I bottle it.


----------



## willie

freqflyer said:


> The instructions say way a week, rack and back sweeten. Mine will have been in the carboy a week tomorrow. It is clearing nicely but not completely clear. Do I have have to wait until it's completely clear or can I back sweeten now and let it sit in a carboy until it's clear. I'm going to be pretty busy for the next week or so and tomorrow I have the free time to do it.



I always wait for the wine to completely clear before I back sweeten. I am on my 3rd Batch of DB and I usually give it ten or more days to clear completely. I don't get into a hurry. I believe Dave saying a week wait is just a guide. 
Will


----------



## Rosa321

Sooo...... I've posted a few times about my 3rd batch of dragon blood.
I actually made "dragonette" with a little extra acid blend and fruit.
It's VERY DARK. Looking through it with a flash light, I CAN see through it. And I DO NOT see particles floating around. However, without the flashlight, it it impossible to see through. And I do not know if it is the color, or if it is a haze. It does look like it could be a little hazy....I know....seems weird that I can see through it clearly with a flashlight, but I swear I can! 

So I am just having trouble testing/judging the clarity of this wine..........should I put some in a glass and hold it up to the light??? I think that's about where I'm at....
The other two batches, I could definitely tell when they were clear.
This one, I cannot.....

Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you!!!!


----------



## beggarsu

Rosa321 said:


> Sooo...... I've posted a few times about my 3rd batch of dragon blood.
> I actually made "dragonette" with a little extra acid blend and fruit.
> It's VERY DARK. Looking through it with a flash light, I CAN see through it. And I DO NOT see particles floating around. However, without the flashlight, it it impossible to see through. And I do not know if it is the color, or if it is a haze. It does look like it could be a little hazy....I know....seems weird that I can see through it clearly with a flashlight, but I swear I can!
> 
> So I am just having trouble testing/judging the clarity of this wine..........should I put some in a glass and hold it up to the light??? I think that's about where I'm at....
> The other two batches, I could definitely tell when they were clear.
> This one, I cannot.....
> 
> Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you!!!!



I don't know what fruit you are using my DB made with 5 wild blueberry packs - fruit eventually dumped into must and disintegrated into small particles - is very very dark blood red seems just dark like I didn't see before - already started it with bentonite - so this is different than the other 2 DB's. 

*No light* at all through the carboy yet, can see some glow in the litre and 750 plastic reserve bottles,


Net few days I will stabilize and add sparkaloid though sparkaloid is a bit of a extra clean up because I already used bentonite in the beginning. 
Clear or not I think this one will be a dark one - it will be interesting to see.

Here is a couple of threads.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/how-know-if-wine-clear-enough-bottle-8788/

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f5/sure-way-test-clarity-wine-bottle-6318/

I like the idea of a lazer light and people acknowledged that some reds are very very dark yet they claim they can still test or judge for clarity - this should apply to fruit other than grape as well.

But I'm sure not gonna bulk age for a year just to settle when the wine is ready to drink in a month.
..
The true test will be if you run it thorough a whole house filter - to my experience, to what happened to me the filter clogs up with unsettled wine - the last part of the wine was not as settled as I should have preferred - I brazened it out and got all of it though but it took a coupe of stoppings and cleanings of the filter - messy job that - messy filter too.


----------



## willie

Rosa321 said:


> Sooo...... I've posted a few times about my 3rd batch of dragon blood.
> I actually made "dragonette" with a little extra acid blend and fruit.
> It's VERY DARK. Looking through it with a flash light, I CAN see through it. And I DO NOT see particles floating around. However, without the flashlight, it it impossible to see through. And I do not know if it is the color, or if it is a haze. It does look like it could be a little hazy....I know....seems weird that I can see through it clearly with a flashlight, but I swear I can!
> 
> So I am just having trouble testing/judging the clarity of this wine..........should I put some in a glass and hold it up to the light??? I think that's about where I'm at....
> The other two batches, I could definitely tell when they were clear.
> This one, I cannot.....
> 
> Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you!!!!


Hey Rosa I just use my wine thief to get a sample and put it in a clear wine glass for the taste, smell and look for clarity tests.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

Rosa321 said:


> Sooo...... I've posted a few times about my 3rd batch of dragon blood.
> I actually made "dragonette" with a little extra acid blend and fruit.
> It's VERY DARK. Looking through it with a flash light, I CAN see through it. And I DO NOT see particles floating around. However, without the flashlight, it it impossible to see through. And I do not know if it is the color, or if it is a haze. It does look like it could be a little hazy....I know....seems weird that I can see through it clearly with a flashlight, but I swear I can!
> 
> So I am just having trouble testing/judging the clarity of this wine..........should I put some in a glass and hold it up to the light??? I think that's about where I'm at....
> The other two batches, I could definitely tell when they were clear.
> This one, I cannot.....
> 
> Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you!!!!


I have read that if you can see a flame through the wine it is clear. And so far that has worked for me.


----------



## nealz2k

Finally bottled! Mine is hot (13-14% ABV) so I had to sweeten quitw a bit. Still, took it to a wedding weekend and it was a biiig hit. Will make again!


----------



## RotGut76

dangerdave said:


> I usually add the finishing tannins after the first racking following clearing. In other words, add the clearing agent, wait at least a week and rack add tannin, three tsp.



One more stupid question. How does the finishing tannin effect the flavor?

Wait.... One more. After adding the finishing tannin how long must you wait before bottling?

I have a blueberry DBSP bulk aging with oak and ready for bottling. I'm curious about the tannin but have never used it at the end before.


----------



## freqflyer

dangerdave said:


> Sounds like you are making true Dragon Blood!
> 
> Seriously, though, it will improve over time. However, this wine---like any other---is not for everyone.
> 
> Sugar improves the balance. Time improves the flavor.



I racked it and back sweetened. Let it age another 3 full days before I couldn't resist tasting it. This stuff is drinkable. It still has a bit of an acid bite to it, and I can taste the alcohol as though it's still someone separate of a flavor if that makes sense. It's not going to take much more improvement before I'll be willing to share this with my friends.


----------



## maurtis

freqflyer said:


> I racked it and back sweetened. Let it age another 3 full days before I couldn't resist tasting it. This stuff is drinkable. It still has a bit of an acid bite to it, and I can taste the alcohol as though it's still someone separate of a flavor if that makes sense. It's not going to take much more improvement before I'll be willing to share this with my friends.



I agree, I just bottled mine last night (~3 weeks old) and it is quite enjoyable as is. Right now I would not hesitate to share it with friends with the caveat "it is a very young wine and drink it very cold". I bet in a month or two I would not have to make any caveats. Definitely looking forward to seeing how this ages in the short term.

*Corking*
This was the first time I worked with a corker, using one of the double lever handheld corkers. Someone mentioned that first spraying the corks with Star San helps them go in more easily and consistently. So after I boiled them (to help sanitize), I sprayed the corks with Star San. Then holding the bottle on the floor between my feet, got to corking with one quick and firm motion. They all went in smoothly and consistently, no issues.

*Shrink caps*
I used boiling water for the PVC shrink caps, only got a few wrinkles on the first few bottles until I got into the rhythm. I used a method that I saw in a youtube video: place the shrink cap on the bottle and hold it in place at the bottom with two fingers and dip just the top of the cap in the water. This shrinks the top and will now hold itself in place. Then you can just dip the rest in to shrink it up. No burned fingers, very few wrinkles.

*Labels*
I was tempted to just use some heavy weight resume paper (since we have a bunch left over from when I was job hunting) and glue them on, but figured it would just be easier to use Avery labels. Walmart had some inkjet compatible "Internet Mailing Labels" that had two labels per 8.5 x 11 sheet which worked out perfectly. Due to the two different label styles I used I got 3 labels per sheet, but could have gone with 4 labels per sheet if I had stuck with the smaller design.

I was thinking about using a spray acrylic sealer for the labels but ended up being too lazy to run to the hobby store. From what I have heard the Avery labels run on inkjet printers hold up to moisture a better than regular paper. This would make sense since mailing labels would surely be exposed to some amount of accidental moisture. We shall see.

And my son and I are big Pony fans, so this first batch had to have some My Little Pony inspired labels. If anything, to embarrass my wife when I hand them out to friends


----------



## NoobVinter

nealz2k said:


> Finally bottled! Mine is hot (13-14% ABV) so I had to sweeten quitw a bit. Still, took it to a wedding weekend and it was a biiig hit. Will make again!




Beautiful!! I don't have enough clear bottles. Haha. Those look so good man. Congrats!!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## willie

D.B. Batch #3 I screwed up and got some lees syphoned into the new carboy. I have it topped off and am planning on letting it sit for a few weeks to make sure it clears real good before bottling plus it's aging at the same time. 

D.B. Batch #4 Went to Walmart this morning going with different fruit this time.
3 Bags, 12 lbs of Great Value Strawberry, Peach, Mango & Pineapple.
Organic Sugar obtained from our local Amish store for an SG 1.085.
Filtered water.
2 cans frozen Welches 100% White Grape Juice (this is something new)
6 Bananas chunked up as per Danger Dave. (this is also something new)
1, 15 oz bottle of Real Lemon & 1, 15 oz bottle of Real Lime juice. 
1 pkg. Red Star Premier Curv'ee Tomorrow 7-3-14
Comment: All the folks that say that wine gets better with age is right on. It's been a real treat for the wife and I to see how our wines improve as time passes. Our very first batch that we made is Summer Breeze Raspberry Merlot a kit wine is 6 months old now and is just awesome. 
Will


----------



## dangerdave

RotGut76 said:


> One more stupid question. How does the finishing tannin effect the flavor?
> 
> Wait.... One more. After adding the finishing tannin how long must you wait before bottling?
> 
> I have a blueberry DBSP bulk aging with oak and ready for bottling. I'm curious about the tannin but have never used it at the end before.


 
The finishing tannin will give it some characteristics of a well-aged wine. It helps to produce a smoother more full-bodied wine, which will improve over time.

Simply put, the longer you wait after adding the tannin, the better the wine will get. I am unsure how much solids are involved with various forms of tannin, so if you add, you'll need to make sure---like always---that the wine is clear before bottling. If you are going to bottle soon (within a week), I'd skip the try on tannin for my next batch if I were you. If you plan on waiting to bottle, I'd go for it. It will definately kick it up a level.


----------



## beggarsu

beggarsu said:


> I don't know what fruit you are using my DB made with 5 wild blueberry packs - fruit eventually dumped into must and disintegrated into small particles - is very very dark blood red seems just dark like I didn't see before - already started it with bentonite - so this is different than the other 2 DB's.
> 
> *No light* at all through the carboy yet, can see some glow in the litre and 750 plastic reserve bottles,
> 
> 
> Net few days I will stabilize and add sparkaloid though sparkaloid is a bit of a extra clean up because I already used bentonite in the beginning.
> Clear or not I think this one will be a dark one - it will be interesting to see.



I stabilized and used kieselsol/chitosan pack for fining for an experimental change tot see the result.
The blueberry is very very dark blood red but it is all clearing as per normal - I can definitely see difference between cleared and uncleared. I need more than a flashlight to see the light - i used a hand held electric light with special bulb and i could see the clearing. 

It looks so good I could probably filter, backsweeten and bottle a lot sooner than the standard month - though I will wait the usual.

Hmm - maybe I'll do the Tannin since I'm gonna wait - oh maybe not because I can't stir the settling batch now..


----------



## NoobVinter

dangerdave said:


> The finishing tannin will give it some characteristics of a well-aged wine. It helps to produce a smoother more full-bodied wine, which will improve over time.
> 
> Simply put, the longer you wait after adding the tannin, the better the wine will get. I am unsure how much solids are involved with various forms of tannin, so if you add, you'll need to make sure---like always---that the wine is clear before bottling. If you are going to bottle soon (within a week), I'd skip the try on tannin for my next batch if I were you. If you plan on waiting to bottle, I'd go for it. It will definately kick it up a level.




I am going to add some Tannin Riche. It's a popular Finishing tannin, or so it seems. I figured I would try it in at least a gallon or two of DB.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## freqflyer

I'm getting ready to botttle my wine. I added sparloid, metabisulfate and sorbate a few weeks ago.

Do I need to add anything to it right before I bottle it?


----------



## reefman

Not really, it sounds ready to go! Just make sure it's completely clear, and rack off any lees that have accumulated since you added the Sparkloid. 
Taste it, and did you sweeten it?


----------



## freqflyer

I racked it and sweetened it. It's been sitting for a week and I don't see any more sediment forming So, I thought it would be ok to bottle.


----------



## reefman

Go for it.
Make sure to stand the bottles upright for about 3 days, in case there's any CO2 left.


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> I racked it and sweetened it. It's been sitting for a week and I don't see any more sediment forming So, I thought it would be ok to bottle.



Consider racking from your carboy to your cleaned and sanitized primary bucket and then bottling from there. There just might be some fine sediment and this added step should ensure all sediment is left behind in the carboy.


----------



## freqflyer

It's bottled. I had 3/4 of a glass left over, so I dropped an ice cube in it and drank it.

I do have one issue with corking the bottle. I have the Handheld Portuguese Double Lever corker. It seems to set the corkers a little low. About an 1/8 of in below flush with the botttle. There are no adjustments on the corker that I can see. Any ideas?


----------



## vacuumpumpman

freqflyer said:


> It's bottled. I had 3/4 of a glass left over, so I dropped an ice cube in it and drank it.
> 
> I do have one issue with corking the bottle. I have the Handheld Portuguese Double Lever corker. It seems to set the corkers a little low. About an 1/8 of in below flush with the botttle. There are no adjustments on the corker that I can see. Any ideas?



I push them in at least that far. then add wax to seal them and make it level


----------



## TinyPirate

Not sure I reported on my blackcurrant DB. To recap: it was made with about twice the fruit and half the lemon of the normal recipe. I tried it after 1 month in the bottle and whole it isn't bad tasting it is fairly sour. I think this is a function of blackcurrant (I would be curious how "proper" blackcurrant wines handle this). I am hoping the acid will soften with some more time in the bottle. 

In good news I have found a local wine makers club and they have some very experienced makers (including a guy who judges competitions) an they have promised honest feedback! So, next meeting, a 2 month old bottle of mine will make a showing. 

At the last meeting I was also treated to a very nice blueberry wine one of the members made. The recipe is similar to the DB approach and so I am definitely considering another batch made to that approach.


----------



## maurtis

freqflyer said:


> It's bottled. I had 3/4 of a glass left over, so I dropped an ice cube in it and drank it.
> 
> I do have one issue with corking the bottle. I have the Handheld Portuguese Double Lever corker. It seems to set the corkers a little low. About an 1/8 of in below flush with the botttle. There are no adjustments on the corker that I can see. Any ideas?



Mine does the same thing consistently. It does not bother me with being below the lip of the bottle, what bothers me is when the corks are above it. But I put PVC shrink caps on mine so I do not see it for very long.


----------



## bkisel

maurtis said:


> Mine does the same thing consistently. It does not bother me with being below the lip of the bottle, what bothers me is when the corks are above it. But I put PVC shrink caps on mine so I do not see it for very long.



You guys are lucky. When I was using my double handled corker (that's before last Christmas when I got an Italian Floor Corker) I'd get part of the cork below and part above the lip. With bottles being shrink capped I'd first cut off the portion of cork that was above the lip before applying the cap.


----------



## beggarsu

maurtis said:


> Mine does the same thing consistently. It does not bother me with being below the lip of the bottle, what bothers me is when the corks are above it. But I put PVC shrink caps on mine so I do not see it for very long.




Some two handled corkers like mine have adjusting screws.

Also what is really important is hand skill. You can vary the pressure of a single corking as you are doing the cork You can vary it as to bottle type. ie there is speed ad pressure over time Particularly at the final end you can give it maximum force sharp or slow or light force sharp or slow or in-between.
Also to prevent slippage you can make sure the bottle neck is dry - and I use a piece of rubber round the bottle neck held by an elastic hairband.

Also you can wet the cork and how much you do that is a factor. I've bottled 400 or more bottles this way - no problem with storage.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I apologize if this has been asked before, but I just started my very first batch of DB a few days ago and a question has come up. What is the definition of "stir vigorously"? I have a rubber kitchen whip and have been using that to give it a really good stir. I get lots of fizz, foam, and bubbles when I do that, which I assume is good. How long should I do this for or is there a point when you know you've stirred it vigorously enough? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Kraffty

Val - I asked the same question about a whip a few years ago and most seemed to think it would introduce air into the wine which is not what you want. I'd stick with a spoon or paddle.
Mike


----------



## dangerdave

If I am not mistaken, the points in the recipe where I say to "stir vigorously" are when you actually _do_ want to introduce air into the wine, during primary fermentation. After it's cleared and you're back sweetening, stir gently.

Mike gets a little confused sometimes, but we still love him.


----------



## Kraffty

My brain thought degassing somehow. Carry on.....
Mike


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> If I am not mistaken, the points in the recipe where I say to "stir vigorously" are when you actually _do_ want to introduce air into the wine, during primary fermentation. After it's cleared and you're back sweetening, stir gently.
> 
> Mike gets a little confused sometimes, but we still love him.



Good to know, good to know..........

I don't have a "Fancy whip" yet. Still adding to my equipment collection.
But I'll be sure to put a little more muscle into it when it says "vigorously"!!!!


----------



## Jstokerjr

Started my first batch of Dragon Blood yesterday. Fermenting along and smells nice. Very citrusy.


----------



## Rosa321

Jstokerjr said:


> Started my first batch of Dragon Blood yesterday. Fermenting along and smells nice. Very citrusy.



I think you will be glad you did!

My first batch was so/so.........but once I got the technique down pat, and started to play around with some different fruits, amounts of fruit, etc. I LOVE IT! I'm so glad I tried and it and found this recipe!

So start small. Try the original. Work out the kinks. And you're on your way!!!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Yes, my batch is still in primary fermentation where introducing air is a good thing. I just didn't know if a couple minutes of good stirring is enough or if I should go longer.....or should I be looking at this as a mini degassing session and stirring until some of the foaming has settled down?


----------



## calvin

I tried a batch of db original recipe + 6#'s of blackberries and 4oz of toasted French oak chips in the primary. It is ok. Do you guys think the addition of oak creates the need to age the wine longer? I also used rc212 yeast. Back sweetened with 3.5 c of sugar.


----------



## jojabri

Rosa321 said:


> Good to know, good to know..........
> 
> I don't have a "Fancy whip" yet. Still adding to my equipment collection.
> But I'll be sure to put a little more muscle into it when it says "vigorously"!!!!



You can go a long way with a DIY whip if you have access you a drill/driver and a plastic coat hanger. Not too long ago I did an article about around the house wine making tools that included this trick. Look it up, it really works. I degass with a combo of the coat hanger & drill/driver and transferring with my All In One wine pump and its awesome how quickly I can get an absolutely still and clear batch.

Now if I could only find a good balance between my two jobbies (job/hobbies i.e. wine making and couponning) that both get done efficiently and effectively, I'd be great!


----------



## beano

Rosa321 said:


> Good to know, good to know..........
> 
> I don't have a "Fancy whip" yet. Still adding to my equipment collection.
> But I'll be sure to put a little more muscle into it when it says "vigorously"!!!!



I use a simple 3/8" wooden dowel left over from a project as my whip and it works well for me. And the price was right. Though I've never tried it, they make an attachment for your drill to stir paint. A small 5 or 6 bladed propeller on a shaft. Just a thought........


----------



## bkisel

Started my 3rd batch of DB this morning. Any chance I have the record?






Man, between drinking and gifting this DB stuff sure goes fast!


----------



## sour_grapes

bkisel said:


> Started my 3rd batch of DB this morning. Any chance I have the record?



If you mean that you started three batches, all this morning, then maybe you have the single-day record for batches started! 

In any event, good going and keep on truckin'!


----------



## bkisel

Fellow DBers... Orchard fresh peaches should be available here in Connecticut in just a few weeks. Wife would like a DB variation using peaches in place of the berries. Think it was here on this thread that someone already mentioned using more than 6 pounds of peaches in place of the 6 pounds of berries. How many pounds of peaches would you recommend I use for a DB peach variation? Wife would be happy with just a hint, maybe a hint and a half, of peach flavor and smell. 

Peaches will be cleaned, pitted, quartered and frozen a few days before being used in place of berries in the DB recipe. I kind of think of a peach wine as being not as thin as a berry wine so maybe a couple of bananas in secondary to add just a little body? 

Thanks...


----------



## datcv

I'm going to start a new batch of DB this week. I have been diligently collecting a lot of pick-your-own berries from local Virginia farms this summer. I currently have in the freezer about 6 lbs of black raspberries, 1 lb of red raspberries (I unfortunately missed most of the reds), 2 lbs of blueberries, 4 lbs of blackberries, and 4lbs of cherries.

Earlier this summer I started a couple gallons of strawberry wine that is ready to be bottled (~25 lbs of strawberries into about 2.5 gallons of wine).

I'm thinking for this next batch, a black dragons blood with black raspberries, blackberries, and blueberries.

I am trying to decide if I want to use lemon juice or acid blend- does anyone have any comment on the difference in taste? How much acid blend would I use as a substitute?


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Dale1978

Not sure about taste difference. BUT Dave came up with the Dragonette recipe which replaces the lemon juice with acid blend. I think the recipe pdf is under this thread.


----------



## datcv

Thanks I had forgotten about that one. I found it and it says 3tsp of acid blend for a full batch of dragonette.


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## Rosa321

jojabri said:


> You can go a long way with a DIY whip if you have access you a drill/driver and a plastic coat hanger. Not too long ago I did an article about around the house wine making tools that included this trick. Look it up, it really works. I degass with a combo of the coat hanger & drill/driver and transferring with my All In One wine pump and its awesome how quickly I can get an absolutely still and clear batch.
> 
> Now if I could only find a good balance between my two jobbies (job/hobbies i.e. wine making and couponning) that both get done efficiently and effectively, I'd be great!



Thanks, girl!!! I'm always re-purposing SOMETHING around the house 
I THINK my dad may have a drill I can borrow.....I definitely have a plastic coat hanger. I will have to look into this!

My other hobby is gardening. Organic, natural gardening. So I'm always cutting, moving, bending, borrowing, or bringing something outside to the garden lol. I get it!!!


----------



## Rosa321

datcv said:


> Thanks I had forgotten about that one. I found it and it says 3tsp of acid blend for a full batch of dragonette.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Wine Making



Just make sure you taste along the way.
I don't know that I would make dragonette again.....I made it with a berry blend (strawberry, raspberry, and blackberry) this time
I found it a bit flat. So I added more acid blend. It's good now hehe.....but I do think I prefer ones with the lemon juice, SO FAR.... Although I am cold stabilizing my dragonette and will get it bottled next week. 

I do, however, have "Mad Mango" on the horizon. I am ready to start any day. PoppaCork says it's really good and really smooth and he only ever makes it with acid blend, so I was going to see about making it as per his recipe.

However, we LOVE jet blue in my house (I have tons of blueberry bushes, pick my own, use 9lbs up front, and 3more for an f-pack for color and flavor when clearing) and I ALWAYS use lemon juice for that. 

So much luck and happy drinking!! Just keep an eye out on the acidity!!!


----------



## buffalofrenchy

New batch being bottled tonight. Hopefully not as sweet as previous one.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

My first batch of DB has fermented to dry at .990 so I added the Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate yesterday and started to degas. I use a drill and degas rod/stick (because I just ordered my All in One Wine Pump and it won't be here until later in the week). Anyway, I have at least 3 hours in to the process and I swear there is no end in sight to the fizz and bubbles! Is something else going on or do I just need to keep at it?


----------



## maurtis

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My first batch of DB has fermented to dry at .990 so I added the Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate yesterday and started to degas. I use a drill and degas rod/stick (because I just ordered my All in One Wine Pump and it won't be here until later in the week). Anyway, I have at least 3 hours in to the process and I swear there is no end in sight to the fizz and bubbles! Is something else going on or do I just need to keep at it?



That seems like a bit much, how often/long did you stir it during primary fermentation and was the SG stable for at least a few days before racking? I stirred mine using a long handle plastic spoon in a figure 8 motion once per day while fermenting (about a week) until I hit about 0.995. Then waited three days to rack into my secondary.

When I racked I used a degassing tool http://www.amazon.com/Clean-Bottle-Express-Wine-DeGasser/dp/B007RT8U1S for just a few minutes. No fizz, not many bubbles.

Cleared in about two weeks.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

maurtis said:


> That seems like a bit much, how often/long did you stir it during primary fermentation and was the SG stable for at least a few days before racking? I stirred mine using a long handle plastic spoon in a figure 8 motion once per day while fermenting (about a week) until I hit about 0.995. Then waited three days to rack into my secondary.
> 
> When I racked I used a degassing tool http://www.amazon.com/Clean-Bottle-Express-Wine-DeGasser/dp/B007RT8U1S for just a few minutes. No fizz, not many bubbles.
> 
> Cleared in about two weeks.



During primary, I stirred it every day with a kitchen whip to introduce more oxygen. The wine has been stable at .990 for 3 days now. I racked into my secondary yesterday and added the stabilizing chemicals.

I have the very same degassing tool and that's what I have been using. 

I don't know if it is actually still fermenting....can it ferment past dry? Unless I have done something wrong and/or anyone has any suggestions about what is going on, I think I will just leave it be for a few days and then try degassing again. By then I should have my AIOWP and can use that to get the job done quickly.

Thanks!


----------



## bkisel

buffalofrenchy said:


> New batch being bottled tonight. Hopefully not as sweet as previous one.



How much sugar last time and how much sugar this time? 

My third DB batch just started fermenting a few hours ago. This time around I'm going to take an SG reading after adding my 4.5 cups of sugar just like the pros around this forum do in order to repeat or adjust to a specific back sweetening.


----------



## dangerdave

I need to get some more DB going, myself! When the supply gets low, my wife gives me that _look_...


----------



## Rosa321

dangerdave said:


> I need to get some more DB going, myself! When the supply gets low, my wife gives me that _look_...



hehe My mom is my "best customer". When she gets low, I get a call!


----------



## buffalofrenchy

bkisel said:


> How much sugar last time and how much sugar this time?
> 
> My third DB batch just started fermenting a few hours ago. This time around I'm going to take an SG reading after adding my 4.5 cups of sugar just like the pros around this forum do in order to repeat or adjust to a specific back sweetening.



First time was original recipe plus 6 cups of sugar when back sweetening. My wife really liked it but I always thought it was too sweet. This time, I doubled the fruit in the primary and only added two cups of sugar during back sweetening. If it was up to me, I would keep it dry. I tasted it and liked it dry but since nearly all our "grape wines" are dry, my wife is pushing to keep the other fruit ones sweet.


----------



## buffalofrenchy

Corks are in. All set for this one.


----------



## bkisel

buffalofrenchy said:


> Corks are in. All set for this one.



Looking good!


----------



## willie

buffalofrenchy said:


> Corks are in. All set for this one.



Those bottles do look great. Sunday I did my first rack on a batch of tropical. The first batch of DB that wasn't red in color. 
Will


----------



## datcv

This is non-DB related but I bottled my first 100% strawberry wine (25 lbs which yielded 11 bottles) and I used a vinbrite filter pad - very easy to use and definitely makes a difference in the appearance. Hopefully no pectin chunks in this one. 

Planning to do a Viognier wine kit and a DB next!


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

datcv said:


> This is non-DB related but I bottled my first 100% strawberry wine (25 lbs which yielded 11 bottles) and I used a vinbrite filter pad - very easy to use and definitely makes a difference in the appearance. Hopefully no pectin chunks in this one.
> 
> Planning to do a Viognier wine kit and a DB next!



Looks awesome!

Wow, so it would take about 70 lbs to yeild 6 gallons. By 100% you mean no water used, correct?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Hi everyone! I just added the SuperKleer to my first batch of DB and am thinking ahead to the next step of backsweetening. It fermented to dry at .990 and when I tasted it, I actually didn't mind it without any added sugar. Can others share some of their own backsweetening thoughts? For instance:

1. Does anyone ever leave it dry? If so, does the berry flavor come forward after some aging? I have lots of friends that prefer a dry wine so I would like to have a few bottles of that variety if there are some that find it drinkable that way.

2. What FG do you backsweeten to and do you find that it gets sweeter in the bottle with age?

3. From reading the forum, it seems that lots of people shoot for a gravity reading of around 1.010 but some prefer 1.007...if you have ever tried both, I would love to hear your comparison.

I am actually thinking about doing a few different "sub batches" when I backsweeten, leaving a few bottles dry and stepping up from there. Keeping in mind that everyone's tastes are different, I would still love some input.

Thanks!


----------



## bkisel

I like your idea of sub batches. Me, I just back sweeten with 4.5 cups of sugar as Dave mentioned he does for his DB. I will take a reading with this current batch I'm making to see what SG I get.


----------



## JetJockey

Val,
I went through the same questions as you. My first batch was backsweetened to SG corrected of 1.01. I liked it but prefer drier, but a lot of friends really like it! I did get some comments that the 1.01 was a little too sweet. 

My next batch I fermented dry to SG corrected of .994 and that was a little too dry and not the fruit flavor I was looking for (although still new, the fruit will come out). I then back sweetened it to SG corrected of 1.00. To me that was the best balance. I have friends that like the sweeter and I like the drier (1.00). 

I just did a batch of triple berry and am going to compromise to keep the masses happy! I wanted more fruit so I went with 3# fruit/gal. I'll split the batch and sweeten half to 1.00 and the other half to 1.008! The 1.00 has never lasted long enough (maybe 1 -1 1/2 months) to see if the fruit flavor comes out more! I really like both the 1.00 and the 1.008, but of course I don't turn down many wines. I found that I have to really taste them side by side to pick a preference.


----------



## Jstokerjr

Just racked my first batch. Need to make a trip to the shop for some clearing stuff. It smelled so nice I planned on not tasting but had to and I could drink it up now. 
Cheers




Lol my guest room is turning into a lab . I really need a space for my stuff.


----------



## Jstokerjr

Just racked my first batch. Need to make a trip to the shop for some clearing stuff. It smelled so nice I planned on not tasting but had to and I could drink it up now. 
Cheers




Lol my guest room is turning into a lab . I really need a space for my stuff.


----------



## datcv

bkisel said:


> Looks awesome!
> 
> Wow, so it would take about 70 lbs to yeild 6 gallons. By 100% you mean no water used, correct?



Almost - I did add 2 liters of water. It's pretty good but a little acidic.


----------



## freqflyer

My first batch is almost a month old now. I have notice a bit of really fine sediment in the bottles. I guessed I bottle a bit early. So far it really isn't much at all. I guess I will have to rebottle it. I'm going go put together one of the whole house filter things from another thread. My questionis about it being a bit yeasty in flavor still. Will this go away? How long will it take. I have a sample bottle I put in the fridge and I taste it every so often.


----------



## datcv

freqflyer said:


> My first batch is almost a month old now. I have notice a bit of really fine sediment in the bottles. I guessed I bottle a bit early. So far it really isn't much at all. I guess I will have to rebottle it. I'm going go put together one of the whole house filter things from another thread. My questionis about it being a bit yeasty in flavor still. Will this go away? How long will it take. I have a sample bottle I put in the fridge and I taste it every so often.




If it is opaque yeast sediment then the problem is lack of preservatives (I.e. There was still residual sugar for the yeast to eat and not enough sulfites/sorbate)... or you got it in the wine when you bottled. If it is the sort of translucent particles it is just pectin and it won't affect the flavor at all.




Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## datcv

I put some heat shrink caps (I just used some steam from a pot of boiling water) and some labels printed on my old b&w laser printer. It is really difficult to put the labels on straight!

It's a little uncreative-- I need a winery name. 


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

datcv I put some heat shrink caps (I just used some steam from a pot of boiling water) and some labels printed on my old b&w laser printer. It is really difficult to put the labels on straight!
It's a little uncreative-- I need a winery name. :-)[/QUOTE said:


> I put the wraps right into the boiling water for about 3 seconds. Caps are held on inverted bottle with a wooden spoon.
> 
> By laying the bottles down you can use the bubbles as a guide for putting the labels on straight. Also, the lower to the bottom the easier it is to use the bottle bottom edge as a guide to squaring the labels.
> 
> I don't have a fixed winery name but create one for a particular batch or for a particular person. The first label you see was for my Mother in Law suing Google maps to get a street view of her home. The second label is a generic but only for my Lemon Berry Wine.
> 
> [Oops! First label was snipped from my Avery account with spell check turned on. Label doesn't print with red underlines.]


----------



## bkisel

datcv said:


> Almost - I did add 2 liters of water. It's pretty good but a little acidic.



What could you do next time so it wouldn't turn out as acidic? 

Thanx...


----------



## datcv

bkisel said:


> What could you do next time so it wouldn't turn out as acidic?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanx...




From what I've read, the right thing to do is have a measurement taken of the acidity, and then adjust up or down using either acid blend to make it more acidic or calcium carbonate to make it less acidic. The downside of adding calcium carbonate however, is that too much will alter the flavor. Acid adjustments should probably be done before primary fermentation. But don't quote me on that.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

My DB batch is still fizzing like crazy after several degassing sessions! Could this be malolactic fermentation? I added the metabisulfite and sorbate when racking from the primary...shouldn't that prevent a MLF? Is there anything I can do to stop it? If so, should I? Thanks!


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My DB batch is still fizzing like crazy after several degassing sessions! Could this be malolactic fermentation? I added the metabisulfite and sorbate when racking from the primary...shouldn't that prevent a MLF? Is there anything I can do to stop it? If so, should I? Thanks!



What was your SG when you racked from primary and what was your SG at the end of your "secondary"? Could it be that you hadn't fermented to dry before stabilization?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> What was your SG when you racked from primary and what was your SG at the end of your "secondary"? Could it be that you hadn't fermented to dry before stabilization?



The gravity was at .990 when I racked to secondary and that is where it has been for the last 4 days. So it has definitely fermented to dry.

UPDATE: Looking over the recipe and through my notes, it appears that I quite drastically under-dosed the Potassium Metabisulfite when I racked into the secondary. I went ahead and added the correct amount so will see if the fizzing is reduced by morning.


----------



## bkisel

Day 6 on batch number 3... SG @ 1.028 and temp at 78F with 72F basement temp. Lots of fermentation activity still going on.


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> The gravity was at .990 when I racked to secondary and that is where it has been for the last 4 days. So it has definitely fermented to dry.
> 
> UPDATE: Looking over the recipe and through my notes, it appears that I quite drastically under-dosed the Potassium Metabisulfite when I racked into the secondary. I went ahead and added the correct amount so will see if the fizzing is reduced by morning.



That sure sounds like it could be the root cause of your issue. You haven't done any back sweetening yet have you?


----------



## RotGut76

I would just like to post something I have discovered after doing multiple batches and variations of DBSP.

When I make a tropical version it takes a little bit longer to age in the bottle. It seems if I drink it to young it is a little harsh, kind of stingy on the tongue and tart. However, it does mellow after about 2 months in bottle. 

I'm thinking, I could be wrong but, that the acid in the more tropical fruits causes that stingy feeling. I don't seem to have this problem using the triple berry, blueberry, strawberry, etc.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.


----------



## RotGut76

I found this berry blend at Target. I made a batch of DBSP from it. It came out really really good. Similar to the original triple berry but the pomegranate really adds a new level to it.





Plus Antioxidants!!!!


----------



## willie

RotGut76 said:


> I found this berry blend at Target. I made a batch of DBSP from it. It came out really really good. Similar to the original triple berry but the pomegranate really adds a new level to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus Antioxidants!!!!



Thanks for the info. about Target. We will have to pick up a few bags.
Will


----------



## RotGut76

willie said:


> Thanks for the info. about Target. We will have to pick up a few bags.
> Will



No problem. I also go to my local dollar tree. They has 12 ounce bags of frozen fruit for $1. 

I usually use about 8 lbs of fruit in my batches so it works out to be 10 bags for $10. As opposed to the supermarket price of about $11 for a 3lb bag.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> That sure sounds like it could be the root cause of your issue. You haven't done any back sweetening yet have you?



No, I haven't backsweetened yet. I'm waiting to see if the fizzing stops and until it clears. I got my ALL In One Wine Pump yesterday so used it to splash rack today. For the first time, I don't see any fizz! Hopefully between the metabisulfite dose and the degassing, I can finally make some progress toward getting this closer to bottling.

Thanks for your input!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I picked 20 pounds of blueberries today...I see a batch of Blueberry DB in my future! Hopefully I have learned from my mistakes with my first DB batch and will have smooth sailing with my next try!


----------



## jojabri

RotGut76 said:


> No problem. I also go to my local dollar tree. They has 12 ounce bags of frozen fruit for $1.
> 
> I usually use about 8 lbs of fruit in my batches so it works out to be 10 bags for $10. As opposed to the supermarket price of about $11 for a 3lb bag.



Jealous! Our Dollar Tree SUCKS! 

About the best I can do is a quad-berry blend 5lb for $14.49.


----------



## bkisel

jojabri said:


> Jealous! Our Dollar Tree SUCKS!
> 
> About the best I can do is a quad-berry blend 5lb for $14.49.



Batch 2 was and batch 3 that I'm working on now is with a penta-berry mix from Costco -strawberry, blueberry, raspberry, cranberry and cherry. Caught 3 pound bags on sale for seven dollars US and change if I remember correctly. They're also organic but I don't know if that makes a dimes worth of difference in the taste of the wine.


----------



## GreginND

I have to say, speaking as a wine snob who loves his big tannic reds and old world European wines, I find myself drawn to my blueberry dragon blood over and over again. Especially after working in the vineyard on a hot day I so look forward to an ice cold blue blood. And, my friends all love it too. I need to make more!!!


----------



## RegarRenill

datcv said:


> From what I've read, the right thing to do is have a measurement taken of the acidity, and then adjust up or down using either acid blend to make it more acidic or calcium carbonate to make it less acidic. The downside of adding calcium carbonate however, is that too much will alter the flavor. Acid adjustments should probably be done before primary fermentation. But don't quote me on that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Tbh, I would use potassium (bi)carbonate instead of calcium carbonate. 1) it's adds another source of potassium to you nutrients, and 2) calcium carbonate can give a "chalky" flavor to some wines.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

GreginND said:


> I have to say, speaking as a wine snob who loves his big tannic reds and old world European wines, I find myself drawn to my blueberry dragon blood over and over again. Especially after working in the vineyard on a hot day I so look forward to an ice cold blue blood. And, my friends all love it too. I need to make more!!!



Greg, since it sounds like you have at least one batch of blueberry dragon blood under your belt, can I ask you a couple questions? 

1. How much fruit do you use?
2. How much lemon juice?
3. What starting gravity do you shoot for?
4. Have you ever made it from "home grown" blueberries? If so, did you treat them with Campden or another sulfite before fementation? And if yes to that, how much did you use?

Of course, I would be happy to hear from anyone who wants to chime in!

Thanks in advance! I picked about 20 pound of berries the other day and just through them in the freezer so I'm hoping to start a blueberry DB sometime this week.


----------



## boozehound

I just bottled my blueberry yesterday. I followed exact recipe with 48oz lemon juice and double blueberrys to 12lbs frozen from walmart. I back sweetened to 1.040. It sat 2 months and is the best I made yet. I'm starting another batch today cause if will b done very soon. I have a lot of blueberrys but they're so damm good to eat fresh I can't get myself to make wine outta them yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

boozehound said:


> I just bottled my blueberry yesterday. I followed exact recipe with 48oz lemon juice and double blueberrys to 12lbs frozen from walmart. I back sweetened to 1.040. It sat 2 months and is the best I made yet. I'm starting another batch today cause if will b done very soon. I have a lot of blueberrys but they're so damm good to eat fresh I can't get myself to make wine outta them yet.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Was that 1.040 or 1.004 that you backsweetened to? I am planning to double the blueberries so glad to hear that you really liked your batch that way.

I am debating about whether to go pick some more blueberries on Monday. As it stands, I have enough for 1 batch of wine, 3 pies, and a couple pounds to eat...but if my DB turns out as good as yours, I may be wishing I had more fruit in the freezer!


----------



## GreginND

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Greg, since it sounds like you have at least one batch of blueberry dragon blood under your belt, can I ask you a couple questions?
> 
> 1. How much fruit do you use?
> 2. How much lemon juice?
> 3. What starting gravity do you shoot for?
> 4. Have you ever made it from "home grown" blueberries? If so, did you treat them with Campden or another sulfite before fementation? And if yes to that, how much did you use?
> 
> Of course, I would be happy to hear from anyone who wants to chime in!
> 
> Thanks in advance! I picked about 20 pound of berries the other day and just through them in the freezer so I'm hoping to start a blueberry DB sometime this week.



I used 2 liters of organic "Italian Volcano" lemon juice, 8 pounds of frozen blueberries, 5 gal water, 11.25 pounds sugar to SG 1.084 (21 brix), 1g k-meta, 2.5 tsp pectinase.

After 24 hour I added some yeast nutrient and EC-1118. I'm trying another batch similar amounts (10 pounds fruit) with organic lime juice and 71b yeast.


----------



## boozehound

Val the brew gal....sorry yes that was 1.004 back sweetened. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## datcv

I'm sure someone has already thought of this, but DB makes awesome Sangria. Really, any wine makes an awesome Sangria though... I chopped up a couple of fresh peaches, some meyer lemons, tossed in some sugar... tasted pretty good to me... ;-)


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

boozehound said:


> Val the brew gal....sorry yes that was 1.004 back sweetened.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



And at 1.004, for your tastes, would you consider that dry, semi-sweet, or sweet? Like my DB, I am thinking about pulling off a couple gallons at the end and trying different amounts of backsweetening.


----------



## WalkingWolf

I put on a 4-berry blend earlier. Have racked off the lees but haven't sweetened or bottled. Been sitting in bulk for about a month now. Drew out some for dinner this evening and I thoroughly enjoyed it "unsweetened". I'm not a fan of the big, bold reds or harsh tannins. This was dry put not puckering with nice fruit flavor. Went well with our dinner.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Looks lovely, Eddie! Can't wait for mine to finish clearing!


----------



## Dana355

Was going to start my first DB today printed the recipe off but then I thought I seen where you change a few things. I have 1 bottle of lemon juice 20 cups sugar 1 tap tannin 3 tap yeast nutrients 1 top yeast energizer 3 top pectin enzyme water to 6 gallon 6# of fruit is all this right


----------



## boozehound

Val I wud say semi sweet. Doubling the fruit really brings out the fruit flavor more. If I were to recommend a first timer I'd say double fruit right away. It does cost alittle more but it's well worth the flavor. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

Dana355 said:


> Was going to start my first DB today printed the recipe off but then I thought I seen where you change a few things. I have 1 bottle of lemon juice 20 cups sugar 1 tap tannin 3 tap yeast nutrients 1 top yeast energizer 3 top pectin enzyme water to 6 gallon 6# of fruit is all this right



I've been using the recipe that is in the very first post of this thread. I believe Dave has kept it current but even if not it has worked for me with great results. Two batches nearly finished drinking and gifting and my third batch into "secondary" just yesterday.


----------



## Dana355

Ok thanks will get started


----------



## dangerdave

Glad to see most people like the blueberry version. So many varitions to enjoy. At my house, I always have lots of DB original (current "perfected version" v3.0). My wife also really enjoys the strawberry/lemon (96oz lemon juice) and the raspberry version, while I'm a big fan of the blackberry. Shoot, they're all delicious, IYAM!

Vint on, vintners!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

So many wonderful sounding variations.......so few carboys!


----------



## bkisel

Called  March Farm, a local pick your own apple, etc. farm here in Connecticut, to ask about when their peaches will be ready. They're thinking around the second week in August. I'm psyched! I'm really excited about making a peach DB variant for my wife. 

Thinking about the likely color of a peach DB variant might it have to be thought of as Dragon Pee?




Sorry if I've offended you SP fans.


----------



## willie

bkisel said:


> Called  March Farm, a local pick your own apple, etc. farm here in Connecticut, to ask about when their peaches will be ready. They're thinking around the second week in August. I'm psyched! I'm really excited about making a peach DB variant for my wife.
> 
> Thinking about the likely color of a peach DB variant might it have to be thought of as Dragon Pee?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry if I've offended you SP fans.



 Hey, Bill I'm sure you have noticed the looks on peoples faces when you say the name Dragon Blood. If I tell them that I have a wine called Dragon Pee they may just loose it. 
Will


----------



## barbl72

dangerdave said:


> Glad to see most people like the blueberry version. So many varitions to enjoy. At my house, I always have lots of DB original (current "perfected version" v3.0). My wife also really enjoys the strawberry/lemon (96oz lemon juice) and the raspberry version, while I'm a big fan of the blackberry. Shoot, they're all delicious, IYAM!
> 
> Vint on, vintners!



Where can I find the recipe for the blueberry version?


----------



## JetJockey

The recipe is the same as the original triple or quad-berry, but only blueberries are used. The recipe can be read and downloaded from Post #1 on page 1.


----------



## barbl72

JetJockey said:


> The recipe is the same as the original triple or quad-berry, but only blueberries are used. The recipe can be read and downloaded from Post #1 on page 1.



Thanks! My neighbor is cleaning out her freezer and says she has bags and bags of blueberries. Yeah for me!


----------



## beano

*Thanks Dave!!!*



dangerdave said:


> Glad to see most people like the blueberry version. So many varitions to enjoy. At my house, I always have lots of DB original (current "perfected version" v3.0). My wife also really enjoys the strawberry/lemon (96oz lemon juice) and the raspberry version, while I'm a big fan of the blackberry. Shoot, they're all delicious, IYAM!
> 
> Vint on, vintners!



DanngerDave,

I just finished my 6th or 7th or 8th ? , I think, batch of Dragon Blood Wine. This one was a 5 gallon batch made with 6 pounds of fresh hand picked Blueberrys and 1 pound of frozen Blackberrys. Best yet!!! The original recipe was awesome and I have been making it with anything and everything I can put in my freeze bags and not a bad batch yet. I just wish to express my appriciation of your kindness to share your recipe and your knowledge with others. 

Joe


----------



## jojabri

I'm still shocked! All these DB makers and so few participating in the contest.


----------



## jojabri

OhMahGoodness! I saw this earlier and now I want to make a series of DB variants just so I can name them after the Game of Thrones dragons (BTW, I LOVE Daenerys Targaryen, she's HAWT!)







But what variants would be suitable for Viserion (cream and gold), Rhaegal (green and bronze), and Drogon (black and red)???

Best I can think is:
Cream/gold- maybe a tropical
black/red- blackberry
green/bronze- only legal in a few states? Really, I got nothing else...


http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Drogon


----------



## dangerdave

You are very welcome, Joe. I'm glad it's working for you. Thank you, too.

And Gina, I must agree, Daenerys Targaryen (Emilia Clarke) is pretty smokin'!


----------



## Winenoob66

dangerdave said:


> You are very welcome, Joe. I'm glad it's working for you. Thank you, too.
> 
> And Gina, I must agree, *Daenerys Targaryen (Emilia Clarke) is pretty smokin*'!



Yes she is my Brutha from anutha mutha ::


----------



## Rosa321

jojabri said:


> I'm still shocked! All these DB makers and so few participating in the contest.



Well......I don't know anything about this contest, so I'm guessing that could possibly be why 



I too am blessed with AMAZING property! And this year, the blueberries are WONDERFUL! I've already picked 4 freezer bags full. I plan on starting another blueberry version. Never thought of adding some blackberries in there.
Thanks for the suggestion, Joe!


----------



## jojabri

Winenoob66 said:


> Yes she is my Brutha from anutha mutha ::



Ummm... well her brutha was kind of an abusive POS.



Rosa321 said:


> Well......I don't know anything about this contest, so I'm guessing that could possibly be why
> 
> 
> 
> I too am blessed with AMAZING property! And this year, the blueberries are WONDERFUL! I've already picked 4 freezer bags full. I plan on starting another blueberry version. Never thought of adding some blackberries in there.
> Thanks for the suggestion, Joe!




Well Rosa, and anyone else interested, the thread for the *WMT (Unofficial) Dragon Blood Variant Contest *is here.  There is still plenty of time to join in. The dates for entries to be made began May 31st and they need to be to the judges (myself and Chasemandingo) by Labor Day weekend. At this point, one still has time to run a DB batch start to finish. The only caveat in entering (in my opinion) is shipping can be a bit tricky and a touch expensive. If you would be interested in joining any contest, you should definitely read up on shipping protocol.

It's always worth a shot, who knew I would have placed second in the very first contest I ever entered, with an experimental wine that I made just for fun in spirit of the contest (because I was too shy to submit it) after only making wine 2 days less than 3 months. To be honest, I was so unsure, that it took a few encouraging forum members to nudge me to enter. See, even noobs have a shot.

I may be hunted down and shot by Dave while I'm in his neck of the woods this weekend for that last statement. I swear Dave, I'm only trying to be encouraging.

Also, we have rocked out 3x 1ltr quad-berry bottles and it's almost 5AM, so I'm a little loquacious.


----------



## datcv

jojabri said:


> OhMahGoodness! I saw this earlier and now I want to make a series of DB variants just so I can name them after the Game of Thrones dragons (BTW, I LOVE Daenerys Targaryen, she's HAWT!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But what variants would be suitable for Viserion (cream and gold), Rhaegal (green and bronze), and Drogon (black and red)???
> 
> Best I can think is:
> Cream/gold- maybe a tropical
> black/red- blackberry
> green/bronze- only legal in a few states? Really, I got nothing else...
> 
> http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Drogon



Name one Viserys and pour a gold wax over the cork hole...





Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

jojabri said:


> I'm still shocked! All these DB makers and so few participating in the contest.



Speaking for myself... Contests and competitions are a level or aspect of wine making that I've no interest in pursuing. That said, I believe I can readily understand and appreciate other's interest in competing.


----------



## dangerdave

A lot of wine making is having confidence in your abilities. I think that even the smallest recognition by one's peers can be a great boost---as I am sure Gina could attest.


----------



## Elmer

bkisel said:


> Speaking for myself... Contests and competitions are a level or aspect of wine making that I've no interest in pursuing. That said, I believe I can readily understand and appreciate other's interest in competing.



I am about in that boat with you.
I signed up, but now I find myself too busy with other things.
Not to mention taste is a very subjective thing.
I compete on a golf course, 
Wine I drink for fun!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I have the AIOWP and the whole house filter set up as well and am about to filter for the first time. I am really nervous...lol. What micron filter do you use (those of you who filter your DB)?


----------



## bkisel

Busy today with my third DB batch. Stabilized, back sweetened, added clearing agents and now in the process of following up stir degassing with Vacu Vin hand pump degassing. Starting SG was 1.082 on day 2 and today was 0.992 (Before back sweetening. Once again forgot to take SG after sweetening.) so according to the online ABV Calculator 11.81% ABV.


----------



## jojabri

dangerdave said:


> A lot of wine making is having confidence in your abilities. I think that even the smallest recognition by one's peers can be a great boost---as I am sure Gina could attest.



Attesting! I was only 6 months in when the Welch's competition started. Who knew?!?


----------



## dangerdave

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I have the AIOWP and the whole house filter set up as well and am about to filter for the first time. I am really nervous...lol. What micron filter do you use (those of you who filter your DB)?


 
I use a 1 micron filter for my DB.


----------



## willie

Well I have been making wine for 6 months now and DB wine for 5 months. I just back sweetened the 4th batch Sunday and it is a tropical version. 
A while ago I mentioned to Dave that I just didn't have the confidence yet to enter a contest. Well after seeing Gina's post that she entered a contest after her first 6 months I say what the heck. 
Gina, Dave do you have room for a rookie? If so count me in. I will be entering in a bottle of the Three Berry Original and hopefully a bottle of the DB Tropical if that turns out ok. 

Will


----------



## RotGut76

I have one issue lately. My DBSP has been having an after taste and smell that I can only describe as "plastic". The only plastics I use in my winemaking are the primary and the nylon mesh bag I use for the fruit. 

The plastic taste is only present when the bottle is first opened. Once the wine is poured into a glass it takes about 15-20 mins for the taste to go away. 

This is only the case with my DBSP. What could the problem be?

All batches/bottles were aged several months. Could the nylon bag be the issue or something else?


----------



## Rosa321

Well.....you've heard of farm to table, right?
Well I'm going from farm to ferment tonight!  New batch of blueberry underway!!!!


----------



## datcv

RotGut76 said:


> I have one issue lately. My DBSP has been having an after taste and smell that I can only describe as "plastic". The only plastics I use in my winemaking are the primary and the nylon mesh bag I use for the fruit.
> 
> The plastic taste is only present when the bottle is first opened. Once the wine is poured into a glass it takes about 15-20 mins for the taste to go away.
> 
> This is only the case with my DBSP. What could the problem be?
> 
> All batches/bottles were aged several months. Could the nylon bag be the issue or something else?




Did you use frozen fruit in a plastic bag? What brand was it? I've noticed that some brands of frozen stuff has a plasticky taste... Haven't had it with fruit yet but I had to stop buying trader joes tater tots because they tasted like plastic.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## jojabri

willie said:


> Well I have been making wine for 6 months now and DB wine for 5 months. I just back sweetened the 4th batch Sunday and it is a tropical version.
> A while ago I mentioned to Dave that I just didn't have the confidence yet to enter a contest. Well after seeing Gina's post that she entered a contest after her first 6 months I say what the heck.
> Gina, Dave do you have room for a rookie? If so count me in. I will be entering in a bottle of the Three Berry Original and hopefully a bottle of the DB Tropical if that turns out ok.
> 
> Will



Of course there is room! 

And we were all rookies at line point, and will always be rookies on SOME point.


----------



## dangerdave

You are in, Willie. Everyone gets to play! Glad you feel like a little friendly competition, and you have confidence in your wines.

We'll be shipping wines in about 30 days, so if anyone needs to start a fresh batch for this contest, you had better get it going.


----------



## Winenoob66

RotGut76 said:


> I have one issue lately. My DBSP has been having an after taste and smell that I can only describe as "plastic". The only plastics I use in my winemaking are the primary and the nylon mesh bag I use for the fruit.
> 
> The plastic taste is only present when the bottle is first opened. Once the wine is poured into a glass it takes about 15-20 mins for the taste to go away.
> 
> This is only the case with my DBSP. What could the problem be?
> 
> All batches/bottles were aged several months. Could the nylon bag be the issue or something else?



Hi Rotgut I hope this helps you find where your getting your problems.
enclosed is the Aroma Wheel. 

View attachment Aroma Wheel.pdf


----------



## RotGut76

datcv said:


> Did you use frozen fruit in a plastic bag? What brand was it? I've noticed that some brands of frozen stuff has a plasticky taste... Haven't had it with fruit yet but I had to stop buying trader joes tater tots because they tasted like plastic.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I've used several different brands. Some from Sam's, Target, Stop & Shop even the Dollar Tree.

I haven't noticed any plastic taste or smell while in the package but I will definitely be on the look out from this point on.


----------



## RotGut76

Winenoob66 said:


> Hi Rotgut I hope this helps you find where your getting your problems.
> enclosed is the Aroma Wheel.



Thanks the aroma wheel is a nice resource.

I've been thinking I may have to use a systematic approach to figure this out.

I need to figure out if it is the fruit brand or type or if it is a mistake that I am making.

I think I'll make 2 batches simultaneously using 2 different brands of fruit AND this time I will use cheese cloth instead of the nylon mesh bag.

This may narrow down any contributing factors.


----------



## Winenoob66

I use a regular 5 gallon paint strainer bag myself you find at Lowes, just wash and sanitize, lol I even use it more than once as long as it comes clean. And oxyiclean is some good cleaner.


----------



## freqflyer

My first batch of DB is about 6 weeks old. It has gotten much better. Actually, its pretty good. It still has an acidic/tart taste. More so than I want. I used 45 oz of lemon juice. Is there any way to fix this short of making another batch with no lemon juice and mxing the two?

Will it continue to mellow? Will more sugar help?


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> My first batch of DB is about 6 weeks old. It has gotten much better. Actually, its pretty good. It still has an acidic/tart taste. More so than I want. I used 45 oz of lemon juice. Is there any way to fix this short of making another batch with no lemon juice and mxing the two?
> 
> Will it continue to mellow? Will more sugar help?



I think it may mellow a bit but not likely a whole lot.

Try adding a bit of sugar to half a glass and see if the taste improves. If it does and your still in a carboy I'd add the sugar to almost where you want it to taste leaving some room for it to mellow out just a bit. I'd add maybe an 1/8 tsp. of sorbate and watch for a bit to see that your batch doesn't start to referment.


----------



## Winenoob66

Mine was still tart at 6 weeks, but after 10 it was very good. So it does still mellow with more age.


----------



## bkisel

Will be racking my third batch off its clearing sediment this morning. I probably could go straight to bottling as I did with the last two batches but think because I've some bottles left from my 2nd batch I'll bulk age this 3rd batch a bit.


----------



## Surfboy

bkisel said:


> Will be racking my third batch off its clearing sediment this morning. I probably could go straight to bottling as I did with the last two batches but think because I've some bottles left from my 2nd batch I'll bulk age this 3rd batch a bit.



I am doing the same today! Mine has been sitting for a few weeks on a light sediment. I have not added any sugar yet. I'd like to add the sugar, bottle some for drinking soon and bulk age about half. 

How likely is refermentation with this recipe?


----------



## willie

Surfboy said:


> I am doing the same today! Mine has been sitting for a few weeks on a light sediment. I have not added any sugar yet. I'd like to add the sugar, bottle some for drinking soon and bulk age about half.
> 
> How likely is refermentation with this recipe?



Have not had a problem at all with this recipe once it has gone to dry for three days straight at an SG of .990. The 4th batch is in a carboy now bulk ageing.


----------



## bkisel

Surfboy said:


> I am doing the same today! Mine has been sitting for a few weeks on a light sediment. I have not added any sugar yet. I'd like to add the sugar, bottle some for drinking soon and bulk age about half.
> 
> How likely is refermentation with this recipe?



With DB I've only back sweetened right after adding stabilizing agents and some stir degassing. I believe you should be okay but maybe to be on the safe side add a pinch of sorbate and stir in before you bottle some?

...

It was nice to have some DB on hand to top off after this mornings (finished about a half hour ago) racking to a fresh carboy. 

Wife has the kitchen all tied up with her cooking and baking stuff so just a quick rinse on the carboy and equipment - thorough cleaning and sanitizing will have to wait until this afternoon. LIKE HER FOOD PREPARATION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY WINE MAKING!? WHAT'S UP WITH THAT!?


----------



## Surfboy

Thank you Willie and Bkisel.

I have added 500g of sugar to my 5 UK gallons (23 litres) which tastes just about right for me. I'll get some sorbate in there now and get to work!


----------



## roger80465

Need some help from all you veteran DB makers. I have access to a bunch of frozen cherries, but they have not been pitted. Could I use that fruit, pits and all in a DB or should they be pitted first? Sure would make life easier if I didn't have to pit them but I don't want to waste them either. Thanks for your advice.


----------



## bkisel

roger80465 said:


> Need some help from all you veteran DB makers. I have access to a bunch of frozen cherries, but they have not been pitted. Could I use that fruit, pits and all in a DB or should they be pitted first? Sure would make life easier if I didn't have to pit them but I don't want to waste them either. Thanks for your advice.



I believe leaving the pits will add some bite to the wine which to some tastes might actually be a plus. Tough call without having tried it myself or hearing from someone who has.


----------



## Winenoob66

I would suggest looking up a cherry wine recipe here in the recipe section first to see if the cherries were pitted in that, then follow that advice for your DB.


----------



## RotGut76

After re-reading through much of this thread. I'm thinking maybe not degassing enough could be part of my problem with the after taste.


----------



## roger80465

Winenoob66 said:


> I would suggest looking up a cherry wine recipe here in the recipe section first to see if the cherries were pitted in that, then follow that advice for your DB.



Great idea! I searched online and found about an even split between pitted and unpitted cherries for cherry wines. All said to be sure the pits were intact. Looks like I may have scored some cherry DB.

Thanks for the input.


----------



## bkisel

roger80465 said:


> Great idea! I searched online and found about an even split between pitted and unpitted cherries for cherry wines. All said to be sure the pits were intact. Looks like I may have scored some cherry DB.
> 
> Thanks for the input.



Are you going to go with 6 pounds of cherry?


----------



## roger80465

Haven't decided yet. The resource just popped up so I need to research more. Thinking 6-9 pounds


----------



## dangerdave

Hey Roger! Years ago, when I first started making DB, I tried a cherry/lemon version I called "Le Mon Cheri" (you like that, don't ya!). I can't remember how much fruit I used (my notes are at home), but I think it was either 6 or 9 pounds---as you suggested for yours. They were dark sweet cherries, and the end product did not have much "cherry" flavor, even after back sweetening. In the end, I flavored it with cherry Kool Aid, and it came out great. One of my best friends claimed it was his favorate. I haven't made it again.

That's just an FYI. You may need more cherries than you think to bring out some good flavor. Since I've only tried it once, I can't advise you much further. Good luck, my man!


----------



## roger80465

dangerdave said:


> Hey Roger! Years ago, when I first started making DB, I tried a cherry/lemon version I called "Le Mon Cheri" (you like that, don't ya!). I can't remember how much fruit I used (my notes are at home), but I think it was either 6 or 9 pounds---as you suggested for yours. They were dark sweet cherries, and the end product did not have much "cherry" flavor, even after back sweetening. In the end, I flavored it with cherry Kool Aid, and it came out great. One of my best friends claimed it was his favorate. I haven't made it again.
> 
> That's just an FYI. You may need more cherries than you think to bring out some good flavor. Since I've only tried it once, I can't advise you much further. Good luck, my man!



Thanks for the reply Dave. Of course I like Le Mon Cheri. I wish I had thought of it.

As for the Koolaid, I may have to resort to that to get the flavor. I appreciate the idea. As long as it tastes good. That's what really matters.


----------



## calvin

My first batch for the dragon blood contest is cherry lime db. No cherry flavor at all so I sweetened with cherry kool aid. My wife has almost drunk the entire batch. I don't really think it tastes like wine. More like alcoholic kool aid. Not sure if I'm gonna submit it for the contest or not. But it is good. I could have just as easily made a batch of kool aid and mixed it with vodka. Could have saved some trouble


----------



## datcv

Anyone ever make a complete mess when filtering/bottling wine?

I just created a disaster filtering some raspberry wine I made earlier this year... Knocked over the jar of saved top-off wine which fell and hit another jar which shattered and then dumped all of its contents on the kitchen floor. 

So glass shards + raspberry wine... Ugh. I don't even want to post the photo of it. :[

Maybe I need to switch to all plastic!



Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## willie

datcv said:


> Anyone ever make a complete mess when filtering/bottling wine?
> 
> I just created a disaster filtering some raspberry wine I made earlier this year... Knocked over the jar of saved top-off wine which fell and hit another jar which shattered and then dumped all of its contents on the kitchen floor.
> 
> So glass shards + raspberry wine... Ugh. I don't even want to post the photo of it. :[
> 
> Maybe I need to switch to all plastic!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Wine Making



Have not broken any glass (Yet) but sure have spilled the wine a few times. 

Will


----------



## bkisel

datcv said:


> Anyone ever make a complete mess when filtering/bottling wine?
> 
> I just created a disaster filtering some raspberry wine I made earlier this year... Knocked over the jar of saved top-off wine which fell and hit another jar which shattered and then dumped all of its contents on the kitchen floor.
> 
> So glass shards + raspberry wine... Ugh. I don't even want to post the photo of it. :[
> 
> Maybe I need to switch to all plastic!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Wine Making



Broke an Italian 23 liter carboy (more like 6.5 gallons) while in the process of washing the carboy. Nothing spilled except some rinse water and that went right down the sink drain. Turns out I did get just a little cut.

I prefer using my plastic carboys over my glass ones but still find use for the glass. I use them for degassing stage where I use a Vacu Vin hand pump over the course of a couple of days.


----------



## reefman

datcv said:


> Anyone ever make a complete mess when filtering/bottling wine?
> 
> I just created a disaster filtering some raspberry wine I made earlier this year... Knocked over the jar of saved top-off wine which fell and hit another jar which shattered and then dumped all of its contents on the kitchen floor.
> 
> So glass shards + raspberry wine... Ugh. I don't even want to post the photo of it. :[
> 
> Maybe I need to switch to all plastic!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Wine Making



No carboys yet, but I've broken more than my share of hydrometers, and spilled more than my share of wine at bottling time, racking, and filtering. You should see the stains on the carpet I have in my basement winery....

ps...the odds of me breaking a hydrometer go up exponentially with each batch I taste during racking.
sent from my old XP driven desktop computer.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I bottled my first batch of Dragon Blood on July 28th - just what, 4 days ago?! I did some sub-batches and ended up with 5 bottles of dry and 5 bottles of semi-sweet that I am putting away to age. Plus I am hiding 3 bottles of "regular" DB so I can at least try some that has had a chance to age. That being said, I am already dangerously low and in a panic trying to figure out how soon I can have some more ready if I start right away! My friends, even the ones who are normally dry red wine drinkers, are raving about it and have seriously depleted my supply over the course of several events in the last few days. I will definitely be running to Costco first thing tomorrow morning for some triple berry mix and, if the wine gods are smiling on me, I will be putting ingredients in my primary fermenter for the next batch by afternoon.

I just want to say thanks, Dave! I never dreamed I could make such a fantastic wine and it's all thanks to your awesome recipe and this forum!


----------



## Medic8106

Anyone have any experience with the Dragon Blood recipe using fresh blackberries? I have access to an abundance of fresh blackberries (the large berries) and I'm trying to decide on a recipe. I may actually end up having to freeze the berries until I come back from vacation in 2 weeks until I can do something with them. Any ideas?


----------



## bkisel

Medic8106 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Dragon Blood recipe using fresh blackberries? I have access to an abundance of fresh blackberries (the large berries) and I'm trying to decide on a recipe. I may actually end up having to freeze the berries until I come back from vacation in 2 weeks until I can do something with them. Any ideas?



No experience using fresh blackberries but my guess if you've liked DB with frozen tri-berry or quad-berry you'd probably be happy with the results using your now frozen (3 days or longer) blackberries. The quad-berry mix I got from Stop and Shop and the 2 penta-berry mixes I got from Costco all had blackberry as part of the mix. 

I would use the same DB recipe after finding out if there is any concern with wild yeast from your fresh blackberries.


----------



## dangerdave

Even if the berries are fresh, freeze them, then thaw them in the microwave before you use them to make your DB. It helps the fruit to break down during fermentation. Better flavor extraction.

And you are welocme, Val. Glad everyone has enjoyed it. I make DB almost constantly. Gotta keep it coming!


----------



## Medic8106

bkisel said:


> No experience using fresh blackberries but my guess if you've liked DB with frozen tri-berry or quad-berry you'd probably be happy with the results using your now frozen (3 days or longer) blackberries. The quad-berry mix I got from Stop and Shop and the 2 penta-berry mixes I got from Costco all had blackberry as part of the mix.
> 
> I would use the same DB recipe after finding out if there is any concern with wild yeast from your fresh blackberries.



I used the quad berry blend in my first batch which has been bottled for about 6 months now. It's excellent!



dangerdave said:


> Even if the berries are fresh, freeze them, then thaw them in the microwave before you use them to make your DB. It helps the fruit to break down during fermentation. Better flavor extraction.
> 
> And you are welocme, Val. Glad everyone has enjoyed it. I make DB almost constantly. Gotta keep it coming!



Thanks Dave. I have no choice but to freeze them at this point. I didn't even think of it helping break down. I have 4 quarts in my possession now, hopefully many more to come!


----------



## jojabri

Medic8106 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Dragon Blood recipe using fresh blackberries? I have access to an abundance of fresh blackberries (the large berries) and I'm trying to decide on a recipe. I may actually end up having to freeze the berries until I come back from vacation in 2 weeks until I can do something with them. Any ideas?



My peeps LOVE the BlackBerry only version. If I recall correctly, I just used 6lb per gal. Would have been fruitier if I has more at the time. But yes, definitely freeze the berries first!


----------



## jkrug

I did a blackberry db and added 10 lbs plus a fpac afterwards and boy it is delicious. Yes I always freeze my fruit before using.


----------



## Medic8106

jkrug said:


> I did a blackberry db and added 10 lbs plus a fpac afterwards and boy it is delicious. Yes I always freeze my fruit before using.



10 lbs? How many gallons was that for? The original DB recipe was 1 lb per gallon but i doubled fruit on my first recipe.


----------



## jkrug

6 gallons. I bought the fruit in 5 lb bags.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

My favorite is a welches concord grape and blackberries....pm me if you would like the recipe.


----------



## reefman

why not post the recipe here for all, and for future DBer's. We love new recipes.


----------



## fabrictodyefor

I will, but I am going to wait until after the DB variant contest. I guess that may sound selfish, and I don't mean to sound that way. I know that even following the same recipe every wine maker's wine may taste a little different. I could be considered a little competitive! And this will probably not win anyway as, I think, it is very different.


----------



## Medic8106

Picked up this triple berry blend at a discount store today. $2.99 for two pound bag. Picked up two bags and am going to try a DB recipe adding banana to the must making about 3 gallon. Little more than the one pound per gallon recipe. This fruit is "crumbled" fruit for use in smoothies. Wondering if it will make any difference.


----------



## dangerdave

Oh, that should be fine, Nathan. I've used bananas before. Makes a good wine with the triple berries. I'm sure you'll like it.

Good luck, my man!


----------



## beano

fabrictodyefor said:


> My favorite is a welches concord grape and blackberries....pm me if you would like the recipe.




Hey Dude.

What he said. We all like new and exciting recipes for DB.

I mean, if you feel comfortable with it...just sayin'.

Joe


----------



## bkisel

Bottled my third batch of DB (I call it Lemon Berry Wine) yesterday. Had a bit of a scare in tasting some of the ~500ML left over that didn't get bottled. Didn't taste very good but thought to myself it is young and it is warm. Poured two glasses, covered the glasses with Saran Wrap and placed them in the fridge. Well, when evening rolled around and my wife and I tasted the chilled wine we found the DB taste that we've grown to like was back. It'll probably even improve some with age. I'm thinking that for me there is a big difference in taste DB chilled vs. DB warm. Have any of you found that to be the case?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> Bottled my third batch of DB (I call it Lemon Berry Wine) yesterday. Had a bit of a scare in tasting some of the ~500ML left over that didn't get bottled. Didn't taste very good but thought to myself it is young and it is warm. Poured two glasses, covered the glasses with Saran Wrap and placed them in the fridge. Well, when evening rolled around and my wife and I tasted the chilled wine we found the DB taste that we've grown to like was back. It'll probably even improve some with age. I'm thinking that for me there is a big difference in taste DB chilled vs. DB warm. Have any of you found that to be the case?



I do prefer it chilled! I have a few bottles that I only backsweetened to 1.004 which I am going to let age for a couple months and I am curious to see if those are okay at room temperature. In the meantime, especially with the hot weather, I cold glass of DB is the perfect end to a sweaty day...LOL.


----------



## maurtis

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> In the meantime, especially with the hot weather, I cold glass of DB is the perfect end to a sweaty day...LOL.



I agree! Some ice cold DB while doing yardwork makes it all go by much faster.

I am down to my last few bottles of DB so am a little late planning my next batch but both fermenters will be tied up for another week at least with beer. I was thinking of doing a strawberry DB since they are $0.80/lb frozen at my local grocery store. But I am thinking a blueberry might be in order instead.

*Dave*, any tips on a blueberry DB other than just following the recipe in the PDF but substituting in all blueberries? You can PM me your secret recipe, I promise not to enter it into the contest


----------



## datcv

Finally starting my 3 gallons of local Virginia picked fruit (blackberry, blueberry, and black raspberry). Black Dragon's Blood? I'm doing double fruit so I added the full 3tsp of pectic enzyme.





Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## bkisel

datcv said:


> Finally starting my 3 gallons of local Virginia picked fruit (blackberry, blueberry, and black raspberry). Black Dragon's Blood? I'm doing double fruit so I added the full 3tsp of pectic enzyme.



Is that a picture looking down into your primary? It looks great but I'm thinking without the fruit in a mesh bag of some sort how do you squeeze the fruit? Also, won't you have racking cane clogging issues first time you transfer?

Ps. Who knows? Maybe Dragon blood really is black.


----------



## datcv

Nah, it's just strategically taken so that you can't see the bag. right after I took this I tied it off and squeeze the fruit to mush.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## dangerdave

maurtis said:


> *Dave*, any tips on a blueberry DB other than just following the recipe in the PDF but substituting in all blueberries? You can PM me your secret recipe, I promise not to enter it into the contest


 
Just use blueberries. That's it! Alot of folks like this version, myself included.


----------



## JaJinAK

Hello all. Just started my batch yesterday and added my yeast today at about 8:30am. It is 1pm right now and this is what it looks like. Is this ok? I wasn't sure if it should be so chunky? I am working in a bit cooler temp. I had to turn the heat on today and it is now 67 in the house and the thermo on the bucket says 64-66. Appreciate any input.
Thanks,
Jules


----------



## bkisel

JaJinAK said:


> Hello all. Just started my batch yesterday and added my yeast today at about 8:30am. It is 1pm right now and this is what it looks like. Is this ok? I wasn't sure if it should be so chunky? I am working in a bit cooler temp. I had to turn the heat on today and it is now 67 in the house and the thermo on the bucket says 64-66. Appreciate any input.
> Thanks,
> Jules



Danger Daves instructions state... "Place brew belt (if desired): Keep temp in 68F-80F range. A higher temp will result in a faster fermentation, and a sharper tasting, more colorful wine. A lower temp will produce a paler blush with more fruity aroma and a smoother taste." 

I would try to get your bucket temp up a little higher. Assuming you don't have a brew belt (consider investing in one) maybe put the bucket in another larger vessel and surround the bucket with hot water. Once your fermentation starts your must temp will rise. At that point just keep your bucket wrapped with a blanket or a couple of towels and I'll bet the fermentation process itself will keep the temperature above 68F until you get to around SG 1.000. Going dry might take a few days longer than normal but with EC-1118 yeast you should do just fine.

Good luck!

Ps. Recently bottled my third DB batch and am looking forward to starting a peach variation within a few weeks.


----------



## dangerdave

That looks just fine, Jules. It would be great if you could warm it up some more, but if you can't, it will still turn out just fine. The ferment will take a bit longer, but it will continue. You are still with the tolerance level for EC-1118. Just follow the recipe, squeeze and stir good daily, check your SG regularly, and you'll be sipping DB in no time.

Keep at it, and thank you for trying the recipe. Everyone's input is welcome. 

Edit: Bill gives good advice.


----------



## mikewatkins727

If you have a tub/tank just a bit larger than your primary, set the primary inside that. Then fill with water and add a fish aquarium heater to the water. Should keep about 70 degrees.

Most of my batches of wine are one gallon size. I put the fermenter into a Rubbermaid tub of a water with the heater


----------



## JaJinAK

Thanks Bill, Dave, and Mike for the great responses.
I have ordered a Brew Belt but will have to wait for it to arrive. Hopefully within the week. We have one local shop that carries supplies but they don't carry those.
I will try the bin with warm water method and see if I can't raise the temp up just a bit.
I don't really want to raise the temp in the house any more as I am trying to save that oil for winter heat!:<


----------



## bkisel

JaJinAK said:


> Thanks Bill, Dave, and Mike for the great responses.
> I have ordered a Brew Belt but will have to wait for it to arrive. Hopefully within the week. We have one local shop that carries supplies but they don't carry those.
> I will try the bin with warm water method and see if I can't raise the temp up just a bit.
> I don't really want to raise the temp in the house any more as I am trying to save that oil for winter heat!:<




LOL! I think most of us face the opposite problem... keeping our wine cool during bulk and bottle aging.


----------



## JaJinAK

I can see where cooling could be a bigger problem.

I checked my bucket tonight and it was bubbling quite a bit. I took all my readings and started stirring and it sounded and looked like someone had opened a champagne bottle in the must. I am sorry to sound so naïve but is this normal?
My SG when I started was 1.073 and today it was 1.066. My temp is still around 68 degrees. I was able to put a small space heater nearby that I use during the time I am home. I tried the warm water method but I can barely lift the bucket up to get the water tub under. My brew belt shipped today!!

Also, how long do you vigorously stir? I am going for about 1 1/2 minutes.

Thanks,
Jules


----------



## willie

JaJinAK said:


> I can see where cooling could be a bigger problem.
> 
> I checked my bucket tonight and it was bubbling quite a bit. I took all my readings and started stirring and it sounded and looked like someone had opened a champagne bottle in the must. I am sorry to sound so naïve but is this normal?
> My SG when I started was 1.073 and today it was 1.066. My temp is still around 68 degrees. I was able to put a small space heater nearby that I use during the time I am home. I tried the warm water method but I can barely lift the bucket up to get the water tub under. My brew belt shipped today!!
> 
> Also, how long do you vigorously stir? I am going for about 1 1/2 minutes.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jules



Sounds like everything is going along just like normal. Your stirring is just fine and remember to squeeze that bag real good each day. If I remember right Dave says Crush it to get every bit of juice out of the fruit. Your SG drop is normal also. This is a slow and easy process. You can go back and read this Thread from the beginning if you can find the time it is very informative and entertaining. A lot of your questions you will have is back in this Thread. There are some great people here to help you with any question. I started my 5th batch of DB yesterday so I will be adding the yeast sometime today to get that ferment going. Good Luck. 

Will


----------



## JaJinAK

Thanks Will. I am relieved that things seem to be ok. I am going to try and read this thread, completely, this weekend!!
Jules


----------



## barryjo

JaJinAK said:


> Hello all. Just started my batch yesterday and added my yeast today at about 8:30am. It is 1pm right now and this is what it looks like. Is this ok? I wasn't sure if it should be so chunky? I am working in a bit cooler temp. I had to turn the heat on today and it is now 67 in the house and the thermo on the bucket says 64-66. Appreciate any input.
> Thanks,
> Jules


 
I have found that just a regular heat lamp works fine. Aim it near the bottom of the bucket to get good convection circulation. Also keep it back about a foot. Check the must temp for a while so you don't overheat. As already stated, the nust will increase in temp as it ferments. When you get to about 75, pull the lamp.


----------



## JaJinAK

Thanks barryjo. The temp was up to 70 degrees today and the sg was at 1.050. Seems to be working!

Jules


----------



## dangerdave

Looking good, Jules. Everything going according to plan. Great job! Squeeze that bag hard, and stir it real good so it fizzes like crazy. In addition to stirring in O2, you are also driving out CO2. This will make it much easier to degas later on. Keep up the good work.

Gotta get some more going this week, myself. Of course, I can make mine with my eyes closed.


----------



## Medic8106

I started a 3 gallon batch of dragon blood last night. I used 4 lbs of berries and added two bananas also. Everything else per the recipe. I pitched Lavlin 1122 yeast this morning at about 10am. Before when i made dragon blood, i would have an active ferment by now, 6 hours later. Nothing showing. I did place a heating blanket to warm it up some. Any ideas?


----------



## JaJinAK

Thanks Dave. I am super excited! Down to 1.038 today. Guess I better start gathering everything to have on hand for racking.

Jules


----------



## jojabri

Found a pretty good deal on blueberries. 13 pints for $15, plus a free box of cereal, and a $5 voucher for my next shopping trip.

Looks like imma try blueberry DB next.


----------



## bkisel

Wife and I are planning a trip to March Farm here in Connecticut. We'll be picking peaches for my attempt at making a lemon peach variation of DB. This will be my 4th batch of wine using the DB recipe and my most challenging variation.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

My cousin gifted me 8 pounds of huckleberries this weekend so guess what I did today? Started of batch of Huckleberry DB, of course!  Now I just need to come up with a suitable name for this version.


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My cousin gifted me 8 pounds of huckleberries this weekend so guess what I did today? Started of batch of Huckleberry DB, of course!  Now I just need to come up with a suitable name for this version.



Dragon Finn?


----------



## JaJinAK

Huckleberry sounds awesome! I love huckleberries!

Well, my SG was down to .994 tonight so I removed the fruit pack, did not stir and just replaced the lid lightly and covered with a towel. There were tiny bubbles rising to the top. Not a fizzy sound though like it had been. Tonight is also the first night that when I uncovered it, I actually smelled wine!!
Hopefully it will stabilize in a few days and I can make my first attempt at racking.

Jules


----------



## JaJinAK

A bit worried here. I checked today and here is what it looks like. I think I read somewhere that white film on top is not good??!!
Jules


----------



## Jocelyn

I jusat posted this question then I saw this thread and thought this might be a better place for it. I just started my very first wine not from a kit and decided dragons blood sounds pretty awesome. I read and rechecked everything more times then I can count... and within the first 5 minutes I made a mistake. 
I added 3 times the yeast energizer (was looking at the amount of nutrient) is this going to ruin my batch? Can I fix this or can I just expect a fierce fermentation?


----------



## dangerdave

Jules, that white stuff in the primary is just yeast clumps. Don't sweat it.

Jocelyn, the energizer is like vitamins for the yeast. It should be fine. Proceed as instructed...and watch yourself!


----------



## willie

*Blueberry wine*

Have a question for you DB Blueberry wine makers. I seem to remember that it takes 9lbs of frozen blueberry's to make blueberry wine. Is this correct? Will they be enough to make a great tasting wine?

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

willie said:


> Have a question for you DB Blueberry wine makers. I seem to remember that it takes 9lbs of frozen blueberry's to make blueberry wine. Is this correct? Will they be enough to make a great tasting wine?
> 
> Will



Hi Will! I actually used 12 pounds of fruit when I made my Blueberry DB (I also added a couple bananas, a handful of oak chips and 1 cup of raisins). I am very happy with the way it turned out! That being said, I think the original triple berry variety continues to be my favorite...but ask me again after the "Blue Blood" has had a little more time to age


----------



## cintipam

Hi Nathan

the yeast you chose (71B1122) just is slow to start. I know on the Lalvin website it says otherwise, but in my experience it easily can take 2 days to get going. I found a dose of energizer helps it zing tho.

Pam in cinti


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Hi Will! I actually used 12 pounds of fruit when I made my Blueberry DB (I also added a couple bananas, a handful of oak chips and 1 cup of raisins). I am very happy with the way it turned out! That being said, I think the original triple berry variety continues to be my favorite...but ask me again after the "Blue Blood" has had a little more time to age



With your 12 lbs. of Blueberry did you add extra lemon juice or add some acid blend? I'll be starting a peach (15 lbs.) DB variation in a few weeks and have been freaking out reading all these different posts about getting the Ph just right. I'm thinking I may need to add an extra 48 oz. of lemon juice or maybe some acid blend for my peach Db but am really clueless as to which and how much. Your thoughts?


----------



## jojabri

Methinks today I shall take my first stab at semi-dragonette. I have some blueberries, and I'm out of lemon juice, though I do have a bit of lime juice. Perhaps I'll just throw caution to the wind and experiment some. 

So, 14 pints of blueberries = approx 10.5 lb. Hrm, not sure if that's enough. i suppose I could scale it down to a 5 gal.

Columbus took a chance....


----------



## Medic8106

I'm really excited today. I got my 100% blackberry dragon blood started and will pitch the yeast tomorrow morning. Doing 5 lbs for a three gallon batch and added two bananas. Happy, happy, happy!!!!


----------



## dangerdave

I really like the blackberry version, too, Nathan. I had some last night, as a matter of fact. Good choice!


----------



## willie

Ran down to Wally World again for another 3lb. Bag of Wyman's Blueberry's for a total of 12lbs. Also bought some banana's to help this Blue Blood along. 
This wine making is getting addicting. 

Will


----------



## JaJinAK

Thanks Dave for the encouraging words!! I am waiting now for the sg to stabilize for the 3 days. Down to .991. 
Question, when I transfer to the carboy should I put the brew belt on it? It is about 64 degrees inside my house right now.

Thanks.

Jules


----------



## boozehound

Talking about adding bananas. Are you adding the hole banana peeling and all or just banana? Does banana need to been reel ripe (mushy) or firm? How many bananas per 6 gal batch? Lastly what does the banana do for the wine? Anyone can reply. Thank u


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Medic8106

I've been adding two large bananas to my berry bag at the start of fermenting for a three gallon batch. Ripe, chopped and no skins. Is it the correct way? I don't know. Is there a right way, probably not. I'm just experimenting. I'm trying to add some body and mouthfeel to the dragon blood by adding them. I could tell a difference at the end of my last batch, the must seemed "thicker".


----------



## jkrug

I did my first blackberry few months ago. Did a fpac with it and DAMN it is good!!


----------



## bkisel

Used two cut bananas, ripe but not over the hill, in "secondary" of my last DB batch. Can't say if it really helped over the previous 2 batches but it certainly did not hurt. I was trying to get a better "mouth feel" (less watery feel) than what I got with the first two batches. Maybe if I could taste/feel side by side I'd know whether a better mouth feel was obtained or I just wasted two bananas. All three batches of my DB have come out great!


----------



## dangerdave

Ok, bananas. Ripe with spots. Sliced with skins on. Perhaps one banana per gallon added to primary. I think that's how it goes.

It does seem to add some body to the wine, but I do not add them any more. I've tried it and did not find that added step worth my while. You may have a diffent opnion---any of you---so I strongly suggest you try a batch with them and see what you think.

Jules: No brew belt after degassing and fining. Just let it sit and clear. Most of your work---except back sweetening and bottling---is done by then.


----------



## JaJinAK

Thanks Dave. I did rack to the carboy yesterday and I cannot believe how much has dropped to the bottom already. I actually thought it looked pretty clear going through the tubing. Funny how that works!

Jules


----------



## freqflyer

I made some Db back in June. I didn't complain about it but I wasn't a fan of it. It was too tart and I could taste the lemon juice.

Anyway, tonight I poured a glass of it. I sprinkled some sugar in it and stirred it up. I got it a bit too sweet, but Wow! This stuff is good. I had backsweetened with 3/4 cup sugar per gallon.

Now I'm sitting on 30 bottles that are not quite right. I'm curious as how to sweeten them more. I need to incrementally sweeten until I get it where I want it. How much sugar should I add at a time per bottle? I'm thinking a teaspoon or two. Also, do I need to let is sit for any length of time to let the flavor adjust?

I'd like to get this batch right since I caught a glimps of how good it is.


----------



## bkisel

There is no disputing taste! On my first batch I also used 4.5 cups for the batch and my wife though she really liked the DB felt it was a bit to sweet. On the second batch I cut back to 4 cups and I really couldn't taste the difference. Third batch I've gone back to 4.5 cups and wife hasn't noticed or at least hasn't commented.

With my first kit I emptied all my bottles back into my carboy because of sediment found in the bottles - my screw up. Let it set for a couple of weeks and re-bottled with no ill effect. Maybe you can do the same in order to sweeten your DB batch? Maybe add a bit of k-meta and sorbate for insurance? Re-bottle in a few weeks assuming you've not kicked off another fermentation which I believe would be unlikely.


----------



## freqflyer

That's my plan. i'm just trying to opinions on how to add each time. At 3/4 cup per gallon, that's about 7 teaspoons a bottle. I'm also concerned about if I can add stir and taste to get it right. Or do I need to add stir, wait a few days, and taste. People talk about how the sweetness and fruit flavors come out over a few months. I have noticed that. Will the wine have to go through that again?


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> That's my plan. i'm just trying to opinions on how to add each time. At 3/4 cup per gallon, that's about 7 teaspoons a bottle. I'm also concerned about if I can add stir and taste to get it right. Or do I need to add stir, wait a few days, and taste. People talk about how the sweetness and fruit flavors come out over a few months. I have noticed that. Will the wine have to go through that again?



The friend who held my hand through my first wine kit always back sweetens in the bucket just before bottling. He holds out about 1.5L and slowly adds his sugar slowly stirring and then tasting. If he gets it just a bit too sweet that's the main reason for having held out some wine - just add it in. When he gets it to where he wants it and hasn't used the held out wine he now adds it in and figures he's close enough. 

My DB goes very very quickly so I don't really notice much change first to last bottle in a batch. If I were planning on bottle aging my DB I just might bring the sweetness a little shy of where I'd really like it with the feeling that it just might mellow a bit during bottle aging.

Good luck!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> With your 12 lbs. of Blueberry did you add extra lemon juice or add some acid blend? I'll be starting a peach (15 lbs.) DB variation in a few weeks and have been freaking out reading all these different posts about getting the Ph just right. I'm thinking I may need to add an extra 48 oz. of lemon juice or maybe some acid blend for my peach Db but am really clueless as to which and how much. Your thoughts?



I did not add any extra lemon juice or acid blend. Just from reading through all of the DB posts, I think people routinely add extra fruit (as much as double) without upping the acid. However, I am way too new to wine making to really know what I am doing...lol...so who knows if I did it "right".


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I did not add any extra lemon juice or acid blend. Just from reading through all of the DB posts, I think people routinely add extra fruit (as much as double) without upping the acid. However, I am way too new to wine making to really know what I am doing...lol...so who knows if I did it "right".



Thanks, you gave me some feedback and I appreciate your input. 

With the peaches pitted I'm probably at about 14 pounds of fruit. I'll likely throw in a dash (how's that for being precise




) of acid blend in addition to 48 oz. of lemon juice.

Did I read someplace that Dave's original DB recipe called for 2 48 oz. bottles of lemon juice?


----------



## dangerdave

First of all, Bill, great job fielding the DB questions. Your answers are spot-on!

The very first couple of DB's I ever made included more sugar and more lemon juice than I use now. At first, being patterned after Lon DePope's Skeeter Pee (thank you, Lon!), I use what he prescribed: being 96oz of lemon juice and six cups of sugar for a six gallon batch. But most of the time, Lon makes plain lemon Pee and flavors it with various colors of Kool Aid. I wanted mine to be more like a fruity blush (thus the fruit!) For me, it was both too sweet and too tart using Lon's recipe, so I first reduced the lemon juice to 48oz (and therefore the acid), then backed off on the sugar. This allowed the fruit to come forward (a problem Lon did not have to deal with). I finally got it adjusted to my---and my wife's---tastes, since she was who inspired me to start making wine. Dragon Blood was my attempt to make what she liked. Amazingly, I got it very near right the very first time.

Speaking of which, in celebration of the 3rd anniversary of my first batch of Dragon Blood, here's a picture of that very first batch...


----------



## Johngottshall

Nice I'm starting a 3 gallon batch of blueberry after work tomorrow. Not going to add to much lemon juice.


----------



## willie

dangerdave said:


> First of all, Bill, great job fielding the DB questions. Your answers are spot-on!
> 
> The very first couple of DB's I ever made included more sugar and more lemon juice than I use now. At first, being patterned after Lon DePope's Skeeter Pee (thank you, Lon!), I use what he prescribed: being 96oz of lemon juice and six cups of sugar for a six gallon batch. But most of the time, Lon makes plain lemon Pee and flavors it with various colors of Kool Aid. I wanted mine to be more like a fruity blush (thus the fruit!) For me, it was both too sweet and too tart using Lon's recipe, so I first reduced the lemon juice to 48oz (and therefore the acid), then backed off on the sugar. This allowed the fruit to come forward (a problem Lon did not have to deal with). I finally got it adjusted to my---and my wife's---tastes, since she was who inspired me to start making wine. Dragon Blood was my attempt to make what she liked. Amazingly, I got it very near right the very first time.
> 
> Speaking of which, in celebration of the 3rd anniversary of my first batch of Dragon Blood, here's a picture of that very first batch...



That's one sweet pic of your carboy Dave. 
I am on batch #6 and it is a 100% Blueberry (Blue Blood) and in each one of them I have only used 30oz Real Lemon. Our Wally World has them in 15oz bottles. Been thinking of using 3 bottles for a total of 45oz. Just not sure what difference it will make. 

Will


----------



## jojabri

Popped open a 6 month bottled Strawberry DB tonight, and WOW! She' s waaaaaay better now! I only kinda liked it off the bat, even though my hubby was chugging it like a Hummer chugs gas.

I've had to practice much restraint to put back a stock of each DB to be enjoyed at the 3, 6, 9, month and year mark. I don't know if I have the restraint to keep them any longer.


----------



## Enologo

dangerdave said:


> First of all, Bill, great job fielding the DB questions. Your answers are spot-on!
> 
> The very first couple of DB's I ever made included more sugar and more lemon juice than I use now. At first, being patterned after Lon DePope's Skeeter Pee (thank you, Lon!), I use what he prescribed: being 96oz of lemon juice and six cups of sugar for a six gallon batch. But most of the time, Lon makes plain lemon Pee and flavors it with various colors of Kool Aid. I wanted mine to be more like a fruity blush (thus the fruit!) For me, it was both too sweet and too tart using Lon's recipe, so I first reduced the lemon juice to 48oz (and therefore the acid), then backed off on the sugar. This allowed the fruit to come forward (a problem Lon did not have to deal with). I finally got it adjusted to my---and my wife's---tastes, since she was who inspired me to start making wine. Dragon Blood was my attempt to make what she liked. Amazingly, I got it very near right the very first time.
> 
> Speaking of which, in celebration of the 3rd anniversary of my first batch of Dragon Blood, here's a picture of that very first batch...
> 
> Dave,
> I'm a bit confused. Above you say you started off using 96oz. lemon and 6 cups of sugar. You say you reduced the lemon to 48oz and also backed off on the sugar but didn't give an amount however in the beginnig of the thread the recipe states 20 cups of granulated sugar! What is the actual current recomended sugar???
> I just bottled my first batch and didn't bother to back sweeten since the residual sugar was pretty high after using the 20 cups.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I am about a week into my Huckleberry DB and it is the slowest ferment I have had so far! Granted, the days and nights have already gotten a lot cooler, but I am still surprised. Gravity is only dropping about .010 each day compared to previous batches that sometimes registered a change of as much as .025 from day to day. With a slower ferment, would anyone recommend a little yeast nutrient addition at some point? Gravity is currently 1.024.


----------



## dangerdave

Enologo said:


> Dave,
> I'm a bit confused. Above you say you started off using 96oz. lemon and 6 cups of sugar. You say you reduced the lemon to 48oz and also backed off on the sugar but didn't give an amount however in the beginnig of the thread the recipe states 20 cups of granulated sugar! What is the actual current recomended sugar???
> I just bottled my first batch and didn't bother to back sweeten since the residual sugar was pretty high after using the 20 cups.


 
My bad! Let me specify. I use 20 cups of sugar in the primary to get my desired SG, ferment to dry, then back sweeten after fining and stabilizing (per the recipe). The sugar I was referring to in the above post was for back sweetening. I have reduced the amount of sugar I back sweeten with, down to about 1/2 cup per gallon.

If you are leaving residual sugar in your DB following primary fermentation (not completely dry), you are correct, you will need less (if any) sugar to back sweeten.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gina's showing her hand! Good news for _me_, as I sent her strawberry DB to judge in the current contest.


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, Val. If you want to speed it along, a dose of nutrient would do the trick. If you are going to, make it soon. You don't want to add it too late in the fermentation process.


----------



## Enologo

dangerdave said:


> My bad! Let me specify. I use 20 cups of sugar in the primary to get my desired SG, ferment to dry, then back sweeten after fining and stabilizing (per the recipe). The sugar I was referring to in the above post was for back sweetening. I have reduced the amount of sugar I back sweeten with, down to about 1/2 cup per gallon.
> 
> If you are leaving residual sugar in your DB following primary fermentation (not completely dry), you are correct, you will need less (if any) sugar to back sweeten.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Ok. Got it now. I wasn't able to get a good sg reading since I made the mistake of adding the fruit loose before taking the reading but with all the sugar and the double fruit I know I was up there a little so when it didn't go all the way dry I thought I would just go with it since it had a pretty good fall, fg was close enough to where it would be with the back sweetening it was clear so I decided to go ahead and bottle. A little sweet for me but every one seemed to love it labor day weekend.
> The sister inlaw said she could taste the blackberry in it. All in all a success.


----------



## Jocelyn

Is there any fruit that would turn it blue but still have some flavour ? I have heard the blueberry flavour is lost easier and would love a deep blue wine to match my hockey team (I know I know)


----------



## dangerdave

The only blue wine I have seen is made by Lon DePope. He makes lemon wine and flavors it with blue raspberry Kool Aid. It looks like Ramulan Ale. Blueberry wine is not blue. It looks more like a red wine---_very_ red.


----------



## Jocelyn

That works awesome because next idea was to try some skeeter pee especially since I'm going to have the slurry from my dragons blood my only concern then though is that the Skeeter pee is going to turn red from the dragons blood which is that gorgeous dragons blood triple berry color I guess worst case scenario have a purple wine that's not too bad


----------



## jojabri

dangerdave said:


> My bad! Let me specify. I use 20 cups of sugar in the primary to get my desired SG, ferment to dry, then back sweeten after fining and stabilizing (per the recipe). The sugar I was referring to in the above post was for back sweetening. I have reduced the amount of sugar I back sweeten with, down to about 1/2 cup per gallon.
> 
> If you are leaving residual sugar in your DB following primary fermentation (not completely dry), you are correct, you will need less (if any) sugar to back sweeten.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Gina's showing her hand! Good news for _me_, as I sent her strawberry DB to judge in the current contest.



Wait up there bud... u did see, where I said I only kinda liked it at first AND that it was aged six months. Although I failed to mention I started it way back in December... methinks you're reading too much into this. 

No spoilers!!!


----------



## jojabri

dangerdave said:


> The only blue wine I have seen is made by Lon DePope. He makes lemon wine and flavors it with blue raspberry Kool Aid. It looks like Ramulan Ale. Blueberry wine is not blue. It looks more like a red wine---_very_ red.



I have a blue wine. It's made from blueberry candy canes. But yes, its blue. The pic doesn't do it justice.


----------



## bkisel

Gina,

That looks like a wine that might be served in Chalmun's Cantina (Mos Eisley Cantina).


----------



## agsimon

First batch every homebrewing back sweetened and getting ready to bottle after 3 weeks! Only question / slight concern is that it had a yeasty taste to it. Is that normal, and is that something to expect from a young wine?

Thanks!


----------



## bkisel

agsimon said:


> First batch every homebrewing back sweetened and getting ready to bottle after 3 weeks! Only question / slight concern is that it had a yeasty taste to it. Is that normal, and is that something to expect from a young wine?
> 
> Thanks!




Welcome to wine making talk!

That's a real nice photo of a glass of DB.

I've made three batches of DB and have not tasted anything I would describe as yeasty. Is there a yeast smell to the wine? Did you veer any from the recipe? Could be your taste palate is more sensitive than mine.


----------



## agsimon

I made a few slight changes. I scaled it back to a 2 gallon batch and added 3 lbs of fruit for the 2 gallons. I also used a different yeast, Red Star Cote des Blancs. I doubt my palate is more sensitive, but I think a yeast taste is what I was getting. That was 5 days ago when I sweetened it, but it still tasted like it did during primary...yeasty. I will try it again tonight and see if there is any change. Otherwise I will just wait it out and see if it goes away.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I have a question for Dave (or for anyone who has made numerous batches of Dragon Blood and/or wine)...

The recipe calls for 3 tsp. yeast nutrient and 1 tsp. yeast energizer but, as a new winemaker, I am a bit confused by the difference between the two. One of the reasons for this probably is that one package I have is labeled Yeast Nutrient and says it contains "food grade urea and diammonium phospate" and the other is labeled Yeast Energizer (Nutrient Booster) and it contains DAP, Springcell, and Magnesium Sulphate. There is also Fermax, Fermaid K, Fermaid O, Biotin Wine Energizer and what seems to be a mind boggling selection of other additives to support yeast growth. What is what and when do you use each is extremely confusing to me.

So back to the recipe, can you tell me specifically what you use for nutrient and what you use for energizer?

I am thinking that the reason this Huckleberry DB is fermenting so slowly is that I added 3 tsp of the Yeast Energizer (Nutrient Booster) to the must when I should have used the Urea/DAP product???


----------



## Jocelyn

jojabri said:


> I have a blue wine. It's made from blueberry candy canes. But yes, its blue. The pic doesn't do it justice.



Do you have the recipe for this magic?


----------



## dangerdave

I use *LD Carlson Yeast Energizer* (pic below). "Contains Diammonium phosphate, yeast hulls, magnesium sulphate, & Vitamin B Complex. 

Use: Add ½ teaspoon per gallon of wine must to stimulate fermentation."






And *LD Carlson Yeast Nutrient* (pic below): "Urea and Ammonium Phosphate. Acts as a food for the yeast and promotes rapid starting and complete fermentation. Use: 1 teaspoon per gallon of wine."






*NOTE*: Originally, with Lon's Skeeter Pee Recipe as a template (thanks, Lon!), I used these products as prescribed above, splitting the full dose, adding half up front in the primary and the rest half way through fermentation. One time, I forgot to add the second half and discovered (at least for this recipe) it was not necessary. After that, I always figured if the ferment slowed or stopped, I'd throw in the second dose. I have never had to do so. Why add something that is not needed? That is why you will find the lower doses of these additives in the DB recipe.

I would strongly suggest you find a few articles on yeast nutrient and energizer, so you will understand what you are doing when you add them, what they do, and how they work. A quick Google search (or whatever) will point you to this information.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

dangerdave said:


> I use *LD Carlson Yeast Energizer* (pic below). "Contains Diammonium phosphate, yeast hulls, magnesium sulphate, & Vitamin B Complex.
> 
> Use: Add ½ teaspoon per gallon of wine must to stimulate fermentation."
> 
> And *LD Carlson Yeast Nutrient* (pic below): "Urea and Ammonium Phosphate. Acts as a food for the yeast and promotes rapid starting and complete fermentation. Use: 1 teaspoon per gallon of wine."
> 
> 
> *NOTE*: Originally, with Lon's Skeeter Pee Recipe as a template (thanks, Lon!), I used these products as prescribed above, splitting the full dose, adding half up front in the primary and the rest half way through fermentation. One time, I forgot to add the second half and discovered (at least for this recipe) it was not necessary. After that, I always figured if the ferment slowed or stopped, I'd throw in the second dose. I have never had to do so. Why add something that is not needed? That is why you will find the lower doses of these additives in the DB recipe.
> 
> I would strongly suggest you find a few articles on yeast nutrient and energizer, so you will understand what you are doing when you add them, what they do, and how they work. A quick Google search (or whatever) will point you to this information.



Thanks, Dave! Those are the same ones I have, I just messed up and added 3 tsp of the energizer and none of the nutrient. With my other DB batches, I had different additives on hand and this time I was confused by the "nutrient booster" subtitle, thinking that since they both had DAP, this was the better one to use. 

I can definitely tell the difference in the ferment not using the nutrient! I am 10 days into fermentation and my gravity was 1.010 this morning so I don't expect for this to be finished before Monday at this rate, meaning it will be pretty close to a 2 week process. With my previous batches, I had fermented to dry within a week. 

From everything I have read, it's probably not a good idea to add nutrient at this late date, but would it hurt to add energizer, just to make sure it finishes? I'm not noticing any off smells or anything yet, I am just a bit worried about it petering out, especially since it has slowed quite a bit in the last few days. Any opinions?

Thanks a ton! Oh, and I have been gathering Internet articles on yeast nutrient and energizer this afternoon to make sure I have this clear in my head now


----------



## Jocelyn

So my dragon blood is stagnant as far as the primary goes at .93 I added about half a cup extra sugar does that seem right? Also can I use that as a slurry for skeeter pee now or because of it fermenting dry (I think thats the term?) it wont work? Mine is also the one with twice the yeast (because hubby doesnt listen to directions) and three times the nutrient (because wife cant read) not sure if that makes a difference...


----------



## agsimon

bkisel said:


> Welcome to wine making talk!
> 
> That's a real nice photo of a glass of DB.
> 
> I've made three batches of DB and have not tasted anything I would describe as yeasty. Is there a yeast smell to the wine? Did you veer any from the recipe? Could be your taste palate is more sensitive than mine.



Did a quick reply before, but only significant change was using Red Star Cote des Blancs yeast. However, the "off" flavor was right after I added the sugar. Fast forward 5 days later to tonight, and it has drastically improved already. I'm not noticing any of that flavor anymore!


----------



## jojabri

Jocelyn said:


> Do you have the recipe for this magic?



I used a basic Candy Cane wine recipe I found online and substituted blueberry candy canes for peppermint ones. I'll try to find the exact one and message it to you.


----------



## maurtis

My second batch of DB (a blueberry this time) should be dry tomorrow, so will likely rack on Monday. My palate is incredibly crude so whether a wine is dry/off-dry/sweet, etc does not matter so much. So when I shared my first DB most of my friends who routinely drink wine said they would have preferred it to be a bit dryer.

Like a bonehead I did not take an FG measurement after I backsweetened my first batch so I have no idea where I landed at. I likely stuck with the 3/4 cups of sugar per gallon. I saw that Dave mentioned he went with 1/2 cup per gallon now. That might do the trick.

What FG do you guys normally backsweeten to? I would think off-dry would be what I am shooting for with a fruit wine?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

maurtis said:


> My second batch of DB (a blueberry this time) should be dry tomorrow, so will likely rack on Monday. My palate is incredibly crude so whether a wine is dry/off-dry/sweet, etc does not matter so much. So when I shared my first DB most of my friends who routinely drink wine said they would have preferred it to be a bit dryer.
> 
> Like a bonehead I did not take an FG measurement after I backsweetened my first batch so I have no idea where I landed at. I likely stuck with the 3/4 cups of sugar per gallon. I saw that Dave mentioned he went with 1/2 cup per gallon now. That might do the trick.
> 
> What FG do you guys normally backsweeten to? I would think off-dry would be what I am shooting for with a fruit wine?



With my 2 batches of original DB, I have backsweetened them to 1.010 making it a sweet wine and I (and everyone else so far) think it's perfect. HOWEVER, the straight blueberry version I made is maybe becoming a bit too sweet after a month in the bottle at that FG. I am hoping that a bit more time aging will balance it out again.


----------



## datcv

Off dry is how I like it... If the acid balance is good then it's good with just a hint of sugar.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## maurtis

Thanks Val and Datcv, I may do half at 1.005 and half at 1.010 then. That should give me some good data points for future batches. I will be sure to actually take notes this time and will update this thread when I get some impressions.


----------



## agsimon

First batch done and bottled, now time to enjoy!!


----------



## maurtis

Nice agsimon, those look great!


----------



## Kraffty

agsimon, really nice job on the labels too.
Mike


----------



## willie

agsimon said:


> First batch done and bottled, now time to enjoy!!



A real nice look. 

Will


----------



## bkisel

Started my DB peach variation this morning. Will pitch yeast tomorrow. Following DB recipe except ~14 pounds of peach vs. 6 of mixed berries and using Bentonite in the primary. This will turn out to be the very best DB variation ever made! ..... I hope.


----------



## bkisel

agsimon said:


> First batch done and bottled, now time to enjoy!!



Like the name and like the label.


----------



## reefman

bkisel said:


> Started my DB peach variation this morning. Will pitch yeast tomorrow. Following DB recipe except ~14 pounds of peach vs. 6 of mixed berries and using Bentonite in the primary. This will turn out to be the very best DB variation ever made! ..... I hope.


Bill,
Keep us posted. 14lbs of peach sounds lite, but let us know how it goes.


----------



## bkisel

reefman said:


> Bill,
> Keep us posted. 14lbs of peach sounds lite, but let us know how it goes.



I am a bit concerned about the 14 pounds but I saw a 5 gallon Keller Peach Wine recipe that used 13# and figured since I'm just looking for a peach vs. berry flavored DB variation I should be okay. I'm not looking to make a peach wine. I imagine if need be I could add a Welch's peach concentrate or syrup from canned peaches later in the process if the 14#s of peaches don't bring out enough of a hint of peach flavor.

Will keep folks informed.


----------



## Jocelyn

Hey guys 
I'm at the stage where I add the sugar and rack off sediment then leave for two more weeks. Do I need to top off the carboy? There is going to be quite a bit of space without the sediment. And is half a cup sugar pet gallon the general concuss?


----------



## bkisel

Jocelyn said:


> Hey guys
> I'm at the stage where I add the sugar and rack off sediment then leave for two more weeks. Do I need to top off the carboy? There is going to be quite a bit of space without the sediment. And is half a cup sugar pet gallon the general concuss?



For back sweetening I've settled on 4.5 cups for the 6 gallons - I don't think that .5/gal or 3 cups for the 6 gallon batch is the consensus.

Perhaps I'm misreading your post but I would rack first, degass and stabilize before adding the back sweetening sugar.


----------



## dangerdave

Jocelyn said:


> Hey guys
> I'm at the stage where I add the sugar and rack off sediment then leave for two more weeks. Do I need to top off the carboy? There is going to be quite a bit of space without the sediment. And is half a cup sugar pet gallon the general concuss?


 
If your wine is clear, rack off of the sediment and add your sugar. I'd start by tasting it dry and see what you think. If you don't like it dry---most people don't---then I'd start with your half cup per gallon. Then taste again, and add more if you think it needs it.

Like I've warned in the recipe, it will deepen in flavor as time goes by in the bottle, so be very careful how much sugar you add. Go to the point where you think it could use just a little bit more sugar and stop. Let it sit as prescribed for a week and taste again. You can always add more sugar, but you can't take it out.


----------



## barryjo

Jocelyn said:


> Hey guys
> I'm at the stage where I add the sugar and rack off sediment then leave for two more weeks. Do I need to top off the carboy? There is going to be quite a bit of space without the sediment. And is half a cup sugar pet gallon the general concuss?


 
And don't forget the sorbate!!!!!


----------



## freqflyer

My first batch of DB is too tart for my liking. I want to make a second batch with no lemon juice and no acid blend. Then mix the two and add acid blend if needed to get what I like. Is there any danger fermenting this without any lemon juice or acid blend. I'll mix the two and adjust the ph after clearing. Will there be any problems fermenting and waiting a few weeks like this?


----------



## maurtis

I just racked and backsweetened my blueberry DB. I ended up using a little less than 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon and ended up at 1.005. I dissolved 3 cups of sugar in warm water, but ended not using all of it to hit my target SG.

One thing I also did was add a small package of medium toasted french oak cubes for a week in the secondary. I heard that oak and blueberry go well together, so I figured I would give it a shot. But just one week on the oak since I did not want to go overboard. We shall see how it goes!


----------



## bkisel

bkisel said:


> Started my DB peach variation this morning. Will pitch yeast tomorrow. Following DB recipe except ~14 pounds of peach vs. 6 of mixed berries and using Bentonite in the primary. This will turn out to be the very best DB variation ever made! ..... I hope.




Yeast was pitched Tuesday morning as planned. No re-hydrating of yeast, simply squeezed and removed two fruit bags and sprinkled EC-1118 on top of swirling 78F must (used heat belt to get temp up). Must started cooking about 8 hours after pitching yeast. Checking about an hour ago basement temp was at 69.4F and must @ 80F bubbling away.

Oh, into third day of fermentation and find there is no longer a "peach" smell. Will a peach smell return later in the process? I'm thinking that my berry DB didn't smell berry-ish at this same stage.

Thanks Dave for recommending in PM to split fruit into two bags instead of using one big one. Definitely makes for easier handling.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

My Huckleberry Dragon Blood is in the bottle! I'm calling this variety "Spellbound". I was planning to backsweeten it to around 1.008 but something happened and it ended up at 1.010...must be what it was meant to be. Anyway, so far, so yummy!


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My Huckleberry Dragon Blood is in the bottle! I'm calling this variety "Spellbound". I was planning to backsweeten it to around 1.008 but something happened and it ended up at 1.010...must be what it was meant to be. Anyway, so far, so yummy!



Very nice!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Has anyone ever tried a plum version of the DB recipe? My plums will soon be ripe and I am looking for wine ideas. I found a melomel recipe that looks good, but it supposedly takes about a year to be ready....unfortunately patience is a virtue I do not possess...lol.


----------



## JaJinAK

Ok, I racked on the 9th of September and just took a small sample today. I added it to a shot glass and shook it up and it "puffed air". 
Should I just let it sit longer? I added all of the potassium additives and stirred well and it cleared up great. I guess maybe I just need more patience??

Thanks,
Jules


----------



## bkisel

JaJinAK said:


> Ok, I racked on the 9th of September and just took a small sample today. I added it to a shot glass and shook it up and it "puffed air".
> Should I just let it sit longer? I added all of the potassium additives and stirred well and it cleared up great. I guess maybe I just need more patience??
> 
> Thanks,
> Jules



Did you do the vigorous stirring, in primary, that is recommended in the DB instructions? Did you sheet rack going from bucket to carboy? Sounds like you do have some more degassing that needs to take place and yes by sitting it should over time degas itself.

With my wines I add a Vacu Vin hand pump degassing phase. It is labor intensive over the course of generally two days but it does get the job done. Pump and drilled stopper was maybe something like $12.00US. I have to do a whole lot more pumping than what gets mentioned in the video below.

Ref: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjL80hXkHdI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjL80hXkHdI[/ame]


----------



## JaJinAK

Hi BKisel and thanks for your reply. I did stir quite vigorously with a drill, both directions. Not sure what sheet racking is? I used a siphon when I racked from the bucket to the carboy and then the carboy to the new carboy when I cleared and then sweetened later.
I hadn't seen that vacu vin video. I will give it another week or so and check it then.

Thanks!
Jules


----------



## peaches9324

this is what I use to preserve all my opened bottles of wine


----------



## freqflyer

When doubling the amount of fruit do you have to add extra pectic enzyme?


----------



## bkisel

freqflyer said:


> When doubling the amount of fruit do you have to add extra pectic enzyme?



Good question! I don't know. The DB recipe with 6#s of berries calls for 3 tsp. and a Keller 5 gal peach recipe I found with 13#s of fruit only called for 1 tsp. Maybe different fruits need different amounts of pectic enzyme? Could using more than you need hurt?


----------



## Jocelyn

dangerdave said:


> If your wine is clear, rack off of the sediment and add your sugar. I'd start by tasting it dry and see what you think. If you don't like it dry---most people don't---then I'd start with your half cup per gallon. Then taste again, and add more if you think it needs it.
> 
> Like I've warned in the recipe, it will deepen in flavor as time goes by in the bottle, so be very careful how much sugar you add. Go to the point where you think it could use just a little bit more sugar and stop. Let it sit as prescribed for a week and taste again. You can always add more sugar, but you can't take it out.





Do I need to top off when I add the sugar if the carboy isn't full?


----------



## bkisel

Jocelyn said:


> Do I need to top off when I add the sugar if the carboy isn't full?



Need? You could likely get away with not topping off ifin you were to bottle in a day or two but I personally wouldn't even risk that. Top off and wait the week or so like Dave suggested and taste again. DB is IMHO very good as an early drinker and I've found myself bottling after just a week or two in the carboy after having racked off the clearing sediment.


----------



## freqflyer

I have some questions about the differences between the Dragon's Blood recipe and the Dragonette. Are these differences specific or is it because one recipe has evolved and the other one hasn't?

1. Dragon's Blood calls for 6 pounds of fruit. Dragonette 12lbs. Is this because one has lemon juice to add flavor or was discovered that 6lbs is enough?

2. Dragons blood calls for waiting three days with a stable specific gravity. Dragonette just a drop below 1.000. Why the change? Was a problem with continued fermantation discovered?

3. Dragonette suggest back sweetening with a bags worth of juice. Dragon's Blood does not. Why?

Thanks for you replies.


----------



## dangerdave

Good questions...

1) I doubled the fruit to add flavor with the deletion of the lemon juice.

2) No problem. This was part of the evolved DB recipe that did not get added. You can stop your wine fermenting at 1.000 if you know what you are doing. Otherwise, it's best to give it the three days. Since a lot of new wine makers were making the DB recipes, I decided to err with caution.

3) Again, an attempt to add more fruit flavor.


----------



## bkisel

Had a little taste of the Lemon Peach DB wine I made and just racked for a little bulk aging. I tasted a bit of lemon but no peach. Janet said she did taste a bit of peach on the back end of the swallow. Overall the taste wasn't bad but nothing I would brag about. Janet [my wife] liked it enough that she felt I shouldn't tweak it with Schnapps or extract but I feel I'd still like to try a tweak to get a bit of peach aroma and a bit of peach taste. 

If I were to make it again I'd probably go without the lemon juice but acid blend instead. I'd probably add a few bananas to the secondary (I used one) as the wine felt thin. Maybe the thinness had some to do with the very light color of the wine in the glass? 

Overall I'd say the wine came out similar to the berry DB only different - if that makes any sense. I think it would make a decent summer hard lemonade type wine. It is a keeper but not a wine I would rave about. I wouldn't be embarrassed to have folks try a taste.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I recently started two different DB batches.

In the first, I used 12 pounds of the tropical fruit blend from Costco plus 2.5 pounds of red plums I had in the freezer. I just racked it yesterday and I think the color when it clears is going to be like orange Tang! At this stage, I mainly taste mango, but it definitely is going to be "tropical". With the previous tropical version I made, I followed a recipe from the forum that called for using pineapple juice...it turned out way to pineappley for my taste so this time I just followed the DB recipe except for the extra fruit. Going to call it Tropical Storm 

In the second batch, I was cleaning up some partial bags of triple berry plus some home picked raspberries and blueberries so I had about 8 pounds to start. Then I added 2.5 pounds (the rest of the bag) of red plums. It got racked yesterday as well and I'm not quite sure yet what, if anything, the plums will add to the finished wine. 

Both batches fermented to dry in 6 days...boy, what a difference adding the right amount of yeast nutrient makes! I will keep everyone posted on the taste and color of the final product. Next, I think I will be starting a plum-elderberry version...I have about 30 pounds or better of each in the freezer and an empty fermenting bucket so I might as well give it a try!


----------



## bkisel

Thanks Val. I value learning learning about others DB variations and whether they turn out to be hits or misses.


----------



## boozehound

Has anyone done DB or blueberry versions with oak chips. Thinkn about taking about 1 gal from each finished batch and tryn. Question is. How many ounces of oak and American or French oak? This wud b in 1 gal experiment. Let me know if anyone has tried. 


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----------



## calvin

I've been using 1 cup per 6 gallons. I think it is a good addition to the wine. 

Medium French toast


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I have used a handful of medium toast French oak cubes in all of my batches of Dragon Blood


----------



## boozehound

Thank you. Will try


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----------



## dangerdave

I use a 1/3 cup of untoasted American oak in six gallons. I love the flavor it imparts to the DB. This is not in the recipe on-line, and only briefly mentioned in the pdf file. I call it the "Current Perfected Version". It's how I make _mine_. Everyone seems to find their own favored tweaks.


----------



## Johngottshall

I used an Hungarian medium toast about 10 cubes in a gallon sample batch the taste is awesome had it in for about 45 days will be making more this way


----------



## JetJockey

dangerdave said:


> I use a 1/3 cup of untoasted American oak in six gallons. I love the flavor it imparts to the DB. This is not in the recipe on-line, and only briefly mentioned in the pdf file. I call it the "Current Perfected Version". It's how I make _mine_. Everyone seems to find their own favored tweaks.



Dave, 

When do you add your oak?
How long do you leave it in?
What form is the oak in, i.e. spirals, chips, cubes, etc.?


----------



## dangerdave

Bob,

1) In the primary, at the very start (1/3 cup in six gallons)
2) The entire time in primary from start to finish
3) Untoast American Oak Powder

When you open the bag, it smells like they scooped it off the lumbermill floor.


----------



## boozehound

So I have oak chips. Got my DB cleared and ready to bottle. Can I pull 1 gal out and bottled rest and with that 1 gal add chips? Is it too late in process. I think I'll add 1/2 cup to gallon. Your thoughts. 


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----------



## calvin

1/2 a cup to a gallon seems like a lot to me. I use one cup per 6 gallons. But I just started using oak myself. Others may chime in here


----------



## Johngottshall

I used about 10 cubes for a gallon sample its been in about 30-45 days taste great


----------



## Medic8106

A picture of beauty... 16 more bottles of dragon blood added to the supply. Back sweetened to 1.015. Yep, we like it sweet. Next time i want to attempt an addition of chocolate flavor. Tastes great!


----------



## barbl72

How are you going to put chocolate in DB?


----------



## Medic8106

barbl72 said:


> How are you going to put chocolate in DB?



I'm not sure...

Either adding dutched cocoa powder to the primary or just using a chocolate flavoring at the time of back sweetening. I made a chocolate strawberry which the cocoa powder was added to the primary. I haven't used a flavoring. The strawberry chocolate was left to clear for 1 year on it's own though, not sure how fast the powder would clear with sparkalloid in a short time frame for DB. Might go with the flavoring... Maybe a good Wine of the Month trial.


----------



## MrsJones

I'm interest in making this wine but have only don't kits so far so I sent an email to my local wine shop and asked if they have both yeast nutrient and energizer and got the following response:

"Thanks for your inquiry. We carry Yeast Nutrient. You do not need both for one recipe, they are virtually the same thing."

Is there any validity to what they said? I'm not sure where to get energizer if they don't have it.

Thanks!


----------



## calvin

MrsJones said:


> I'm interest in making this wine but have only don't kits so far so I sent an email to my local wine shop and asked if they have both yeast nutrient and energizer and got the following response:
> 
> "Thanks for your inquiry. We carry Yeast Nutrient. You do not need both for one recipe, they are virtually the same thing."
> 
> Is there any validity to what they said? I'm not sure where to get energizer if they don't have it.
> 
> Thanks!




They should have it. If not you can always find it online. I just follow Dave's recipe and it turns out good. You could probably get away without it. But why take the risk of you don't have too


----------



## vacuumpumpman

boozehound said:


> So I have oak chips. Got my DB cleared and ready to bottle. Can I pull 1 gal out and bottled rest and with that 1 gal add chips? Is it too late in process. I think I'll add 1/2 cup to gallon. Your thoughts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Try it and check it from time to time - if it is too oaky you can always open a bottle or 2 and dilute it prior to bottling. It is never to late to oak your wine - it is by personal preference.


----------



## MrsJones

Thanks Calvin! Could you recommend an online seller?


----------



## calvin

Labelpeelers has been great to me in the past. Best prices I can find on kits anywhere


----------



## boozehound

Is there a curtain amount of time that the oak is done working?


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----------



## willie

I'm going to try the Oak chips in the new 3 berry with added strawberry's in the batch that is just starting to see if we like it. I couldn't find the powder but I believe the American Oak chips will do. 

Will


----------



## dangerdave

Oak is another one of those "to your taste" subjects. I've added too much (for me) before. That's how I know how much to add for my own preference. Different oaks and toasts will impart different flavors and aromas to different kinds of wine. But you still have to try different ones to see what works for you.


----------



## boozehound

Thanks for oak input. I'm gonna try a couple different batches this weekend. 


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----------



## bkisel

Bottled my Lemon Peach (LP) DB wine this afternoon. Had about 8 oz. left after filling and corking 30 bottles. My wife Janet and I shared the partially chilled wine before dinner. I felt it was okay but Janet thought it better than that, she really liked it. If I do another it will be with a few more pounds of peaches (I used ~14 lbs.) and about half the lemon (I used 48 oz.) or maybe none at all but use acid blend instead. Best part is that it is drinkable and I wouldn't be embarrassed to give to family and friends to try.


----------



## geek

Bill,

I remember using 48oz of lemon juice on my 1st one and then cut back to 24 or 32oz, can't remember.

Did you make it to 5gal at the begining?


----------



## bkisel

geek said:


> Bill,
> 
> I remember using 48oz of lemon juice on my 1st one and then cut back to 24 or 32oz, can't remember.
> 
> Did you make it to 5gal at the begining?



No, 6 gallons.

The more I sipped it the more I liked it. However, got distracted and didn't finish the glass while it was still chilled. When I came back to the glass and finished what was left it didn't taste good room temperature. Something about most whites and pinks I've tried - they're generally okay chilled but to me not so nice room temperature. Love the big reds room temperature.


----------



## dangerdave

My tastes slide with the sweetness of any given wine. I like my sweet wines chilled and my dry wines RT (room temp).


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

We have been drinking all the DB varieties chilled but I am going to leave a couple gallons of my elderberry batch dry and am hoping those will be good at room temperature. I generally agree with the sweet/chilled, dry/RT preferences but I have been drinking my sweet(er) meads at room temperature and really enjoying them that way.


----------



## maurtis

Labeled and shrink capped my blueberry DB last night. I went with backsweetening to 1.010. I think it tastes great, but not too different from the regular triple berry DB. Darker, though. It will be interesting to see if more of the blueberry flavor comes through over time. I am sure my wine drinker friends will still want it drier, so I will try 1.005 next time. But still so pleased with the DB recipe and being such a quick drinker!

I used 10 pounds of blueberries and added some oak to the secondary. I think next time I will oak in the fermenter.

Since all of my wines are pony themed, this one was "Daring Do and the Tart Berry Blue"... duhn duhn duunnnnnn


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

maurtis said:


> Labeled and shrink capped my blueberry DB last night. I went with backsweetening to 1.010. I think it tastes great, but not too different from the regular triple berry DB. Darker, though. It will be interesting to see if more of the blueberry flavor comes through over time. I am sure my wine drinker friends will still want it drier, so I will try 1.005 next time. But still so pleased with the DB recipe and being such a quick drinker!
> 
> I used 10 pounds of blueberries and added some oak to the secondary. I think next time I will oak in the fermenter.
> 
> Since all of my wines are pony themed, this one was "Daring Do and the Tart Berry Blue"... duhn duhn duunnnnnn



My blueberry version has definitely gotten better after even a few weeks in the bottle. The color wasn't really darker with mine, just different than the striking red of the triple berry. I did leave some bottles in the 1.005 range when I made it and my red wine purist friends are enjoying my efforts...lol.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Posting an update on the tropical and berry versions that I added a couple pounds of plums to. These batches do not want to clear! I thought the berry one was clear so I bottled it and now I am finding a bit of sediment  The tropical I could tell was still a bit hazy so I have left it in the carboy but it doesn't seem to be making much progress. Both are very tasty but I don't know if this fruit added enough character to the wine to make it worth the extra time it is taking to clear.


----------



## willie

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Posting an update on the tropical and berry versions that I added a couple pounds of plums to. These batches do not want to clear! I thought the berry one was clear so I bottled it and now I am finding a bit of sediment  The tropical I could tell was still a bit hazy so I have left it in the carboy but it doesn't seem to be making much progress. Both are very tasty but I don't know if this fruit added enough character to the wine to make it worth the extra time it is taking to clear.



Have never used plums in my wine's yet. Sounds like the sediment from them is taking longer than normal to drop. I have had sediment problems with some batches and not sure what cause's it exactly although I'm working on figuring it out. A couple of the batches I did not filter, also I use Organic Cane Sugar which is a light brown in color and you can see some dark specs in it. We buy this at the Amish store near us. These two things maybe the problem. What I have been doing with the last four batches is letting them bulk age longer to get that sediment to drop before we bottle. 

Will


----------



## RotGut76

Dangerdave, forgive me if you have already posted this. I was looking at your original recipe on page 1 of this thread. I have been following this thread for a while and remember you saying that you have revised the recipe with the addition of oak chips/powder or tannins.

Unless I missed it the original doesn't have that in there. Can you elaborate one more time?:>


----------



## bkisel

Over the course of last night and the one before my wife and I enjoyed a bottle of our recently finished Dragon PEAch [




] variation. Happy to report that the flavour is growing on us but I'd still add more peach (go from 14 to 20 lbs.) and cut back on maybe half of the lemon juice. I will be making it again next year.


----------



## agsimon

I made a plum wine a few months ago, and it FINALLY cleared enough to bottle last week. I usually use Sparkolloid and have everything cleared withing 1-2 weeks, but this one refused. I then tried cold crashing in the fridge for 2 weeks and that didn't do much. I then waited another 2 weeks before I added some Super-Kleer and just let it sit in the basement and tried to forget about it. Another 2.5 months later it was finally clearing...maybe it's just a plum thing, but I also had a hard time getting it to clear too.


----------



## maurtis

I wonder if amalayse enzyme (or Beano) would help here? It is used to help clear starch haze from beer and I used it in my Skittle wine. Apparently without it the Skittle wine takes a long time to clear as well. I used 3 crushed Beano tablets for 5 gallons.


----------



## beano

maurtis said:


> I wonder if amalayse enzyme (or Beano) would help here? It is used to help clear starch haze from beer and I used it in my Skittle wine. Apparently without it the Skittle wine takes a long time to clear as well. I used 3 crushed Beano tablets for 5 gallons.




Huuu.....

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Beano Joe


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

agsimon said:


> I made a plum wine a few months ago, and it FINALLY cleared enough to bottle last week. I usually use Sparkolloid and have everything cleared withing 1-2 weeks, but this one refused. I then tried cold crashing in the fridge for 2 weeks and that didn't do much. I then waited another 2 weeks before I added some Super-Kleer and just let it sit in the basement and tried to forget about it. Another 2.5 months later it was finally clearing...maybe it's just a plum thing, but I also had a hard time getting it to clear too.



Thanks for sharing your experience with using plums. I dosed it with SuperKleer a couple weeks back and it helped but didn't get it crystal clear. I have a good 10-12 pounds of plums still in the freezer and want to get them used up...looks like I will have to plan on my carboy being tied up for a few months when I do finally make something with them.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

maurtis said:


> I wonder if amalayse enzyme (or Beano) would help here? It is used to help clear starch haze from beer and I used it in my Skittle wine. Apparently without it the Skittle wine takes a long time to clear as well. I used 3 crushed Beano tablets for 5 gallons.



I don't suppose it would hurt anything to give it a try, would it? I think I have some Beano in the cupboard...


----------



## ou8amaus

Finally bottled a dragonette version which I back sweetened with strawberry margarita concentrate... a hybrid similar to Dave's WMT winning recipe... wow does it ever pack a lot of flavour! Best version yet in my lowly opinion. Thanks again Dave!


----------



## beano

ou8amaus said:


> Finally bottled a dragonette version which I back sweetened with strawberry margarita concentrate... a hybrid similar to Dave's WMT winning recipe... wow does it ever pack a lot of flavour! Best version yet in my lowly opinion. Thanks again Dave!




Is this the kind that is frozen in the can? What was the rate per gallon that you used. I'm sure tastes vary. I would like to try this.

Beano Joe


----------



## MrsJones

Day two of my first dragon blood - smells delish!


----------



## bkisel

Looks like you're off to a good start MrsJones.

Thanks for the pic.


----------



## willie

MrsJones said:


> Day two of my first dragon blood - smells delish!
> 
> View attachment 18509



Mrs. Jones your going to love this wine. Get ready to make another batch when this one is done. It goes mighty fast. And you will need more than one 6gal. carboy. At least I did. And your fermenter looks great. 

Will


----------



## ou8amaus

beano said:


> Is this the kind that is frozen in the can? What was the rate per gallon that you used. I'm sure tastes vary. I would like to try this.
> 
> Beano Joe



It was the liquid concentrate they sell in all the groceries. Mr & Mrs T. 1 bottled added to 23 liter carboy.


----------



## ou8amaus

Correction. It was the Strawberry Daiquiri!


----------



## MrsJones

Day four and sg has dropped to 1.05 already.


----------



## willie

DB Batch #7 just went to an SG .990 yesterday and it was day 10. That has been pretty normal for my batches be it DB or a Kit Wine. I will be racking this new batch this Wed. I always give it 3 days at an SG of .990 before 1st racking as per Danger Dave's recipe. 

Will


----------



## beano

ou8amaus said:


> Correction. It was the Strawberry Daiquiri!



Thank you. I will explore this.

Beano Joe


----------



## dangerdave

We definately have some inovative wine makers here! Great job everyone!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

willie said:


> DB Batch #7 just went to an SG .990 yesterday and it was day 10. That has been pretty normal for my batches be it DB or a Kit Wine. I will be racking this new batch this Wed. I always give it 3 days at an SG of .990 before 1st racking as per Danger Dave's recipe.
> 
> Will



Maybe Dave or someone else can answer this question: Is it necessary to give it 3 days before racking if the SG is .990? I generally do wait if the SG is anything above that, but I thought .990 was as low as it goes so it would be fermented out and you should be safe...or is this a newbie assumption?


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Maybe Dave or someone else can answer this question: Is it necessary to give it 3 days before racking if the SG is .990? I generally do wait if the SG is anything above that, but I thought .990 was as low as it goes so it would be fermented out and you should be safe...or is this a newbie assumption?



I'd have no qualms about racking and then stabilizing, according to the DB recipe/instruction, with that SG.


----------



## dangerdave

I think I specify in the recipe to wait three days _after it falls below_ SG 1.000. That gives it time to finsh out, probably somewhere in the 0.990 range. If it's already 0.990, then it's not going anywhere, and you're good to proceed. I try to err on the side of caution for the new wine makers. The rest of you can fiddle as you see fit.

Better to avoid bottle bombs.


----------



## RaymondoChin

Getting ready to start a peach DB. I have maybe 16 or 17 lbs destoned cutup and frozen peaches and was wondering about how the lemon juice would taste with the peaches. I was thinking of using some pineapple juice in place of the lemon and some of the water. Any thoughts ? My first batch of original DB I used 32 oz and backsweetened with 3 3/4 cups sugar. Liked it very much. Second DB was 7 1/2 lbs straight blackberry with 3 3/4 cups sugar. Only used 24 oz lemon in that one and it was even better. Helped my lovely wife make a batch with 4 gallon ziplocks of concord grapes and 24 oz lemon. She liked it dry so we left it that way. Just a little time in the bottle and I think it will be a winner also ! I was afraid of overpowering the peaches since I only have a small amount.


----------



## RotGut76

I just wanted to chime in with a little variacion that I've been working with.

First I make the ORIGINAL version of lemon skeeter pee. Then when cleared and stabilized and back sweetened I put it into my beer kegerator. There I force carbonate it, which BTW, is unbelievable on its own. After carbonating I then put 3 ounces of quality silver tequila in a champagne bottle. Then fill the bottle the rest of the way with the lemon pee.

My original idea was to make a "Margarita Pee" but I've been told by freinds that it tastes like a Snakebite. 

Be forewarned it packs a huge punch


----------



## bkisel

RaymondoChin said:


> Getting ready to start a peach DB. I have maybe 16 or 17 lbs destoned cutup and frozen peaches and was wondering about how the lemon juice would taste with the peaches. I was thinking of using some pineapple juice in place of the lemon and some of the water. Any thoughts ? My first batch of original DB I used 32 oz and backsweetened with 3 3/4 cups sugar. Liked it very much. Second DB was 7 1/2 lbs straight blackberry with 3 3/4 cups sugar. Only used 24 oz lemon in that one and it was even better. Helped my lovely wife make a batch with 4 gallon ziplocks of concord grapes and 24 oz lemon. She liked it dry so we left it that way. Just a little time in the bottle and I think it will be a winner also ! I was afraid of overpowering the peaches since I only have a small amount.



Posted further up on my Lemon Peach DB wine. I used 14 pounds of peaches but if I were to do it again I'd use ~20. Used 48 oz. of lemon juice but would likely cut that in half next time. With that said, none the less, I'm getting favorable feedback on my Dragon PEAch wine. A little more peach flavor and aroma and a little less lemon taste is what I'll shoot for next batch. [Back sweetened with 4.5 cups of sugar.]


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

RaymondoChin said:


> Getting ready to start a peach DB. I have maybe 16 or 17 lbs destoned cutup and frozen peaches and was wondering about how the lemon juice would taste with the peaches. I was thinking of using some pineapple juice in place of the lemon and some of the water. Any thoughts ? My first batch of original DB I used 32 oz and backsweetened with 3 3/4 cups sugar. Liked it very much. Second DB was 7 1/2 lbs straight blackberry with 3 3/4 cups sugar. Only used 24 oz lemon in that one and it was even better. Helped my lovely wife make a batch with 4 gallon ziplocks of concord grapes and 24 oz lemon. She liked it dry so we left it that way. Just a little time in the bottle and I think it will be a winner also ! I was afraid of overpowering the peaches since I only have a small amount.



I used pineapple in place of the lemon in my first tropical DB (the recipe I found called for two 48 oz cans) and pineapple is now the main flavor character...so I will not do that again! So I would just be careful with the amount you use.

I just started a straight blackberry the other day  Trying different fruit variations is one of the things that makes this recipe so much fun...and the fact that every batch has turned out great so far is what keeps me making carboy after carboy.


----------



## RaymondoChin

Thanks for the help. I may just stick with the lemon juice and cut it way back. I was afraid the pineapple would be too overpowering from other posts I have read ! Love the DB ! Thanks Dave ! I've gotten a buddy of mine started making his first batch also.


----------



## RaymondoChin

Bill I was wondering. Did you squeeze your bags of peaches or just let them drain ? Have read both methods. I squeeze all other fruit but wasn't sure about something like peaches that will throw so much lees. Thanks, Mark


----------



## bkisel

RaymondoChin said:


> Bill I was wondering. Did you squeeze your bags of peaches or just let them drain ? Have read both methods. I squeeze all other fruit but wasn't sure about something like peaches that will throw so much lees. Thanks, Mark



Squeezed just like with the berries. I think that next time with the peaches I'll not bottle as soon to allow more time for sediment to settle. Appears I was a bit hasty to let things fully settle and as a result have some sediment in the bottled wine. Never happened with the 3-4 berry batches of DB I had done prior to the Dragon PEAch.


----------



## bmwr75

I racked my first batch to a 6 gallon carboy today. Waiting for it to settle now.


----------



## geek

Can someone tell me where I can find frozen 100% pear juice?

I want to start a peach-pear variation, I have frozen peaches already.


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----------



## bkisel

geek said:


> Can someone tell me where I can find frozen 100% pear juice?
> 
> I want to start a peach-pear variation, I have frozen peaches already.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



Varis, I'm thinking that you might find that at a health food store. Maybe New Morning off Rt. 6 in Woodbury?

http://www.bing.com/local?lid=YN873x118944455&id=YN873x118944455&q=New+Morning+Market+Woodbury+CT&FORM=SNAPST


----------



## geek

Thanks Bill.

Called but they don't have it.


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----------



## geek

I may use a frozen bag of mango from Walmart 


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----------



## geek

Does anyone measure PH or TA when making DB?


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----------



## TinyPirate

Thought I would provide an update on my Blackcurrant Dragonsblood. This was a 2kg of fruit to 5lt carboy version (twice the recommended fruit, basically). Took it to a local wine club I have joined and they all agreed it was quite drinkable and even "good" (they aren't shy with their criticism, which is good)!

My plum and my feijoa didn't fare as well in their estimations. Awww. 

Anyway, I was quite pleased with this feedback. When I bottled it and then tried I felt it had ended up too sour and I was quite disappointed. Looks like few months in the bottle really helped it along.


----------



## bkisel

That's gutsy taking a DB variant to a wine club for tasting. Don't think my ego could handle that. Glad your Black Currant DB faired well.


----------



## TinyPirate

Thanks. Well, wine makers club, so they are all about tasting each other's wines and critiquing them. The main guy is a wine judge for amateur competitions!

For what it's worth, my plum has fussel alcohols and my feijoa was oxidized. Aww!


----------



## funjoh

I started my version yesterday, pitching the yeast today. It has half lemon and half pineapple juice. I used 12 pounds of raspberry, blackberry, blueberry and strawberry. Then in another bag there is 24 ounces of raisins and 3 whole bananas cut into one inch pieces. Three ounces of French medium roast oak is in a third bag. Now, I patiently wait for it to take off!


----------



## bkisel

funjoh said:


> I started my version yesterday, pitching the yeast today. It has half lemon and half pineapple juice. I used 12 pounds of raspberry, blackberry, blueberry and strawberry. Then in another bag there is 24 ounces of raisins and 3 whole bananas cut into one inch pieces. Three ounces of French medium roast oak is in a third bag. Now, I patiently wait for it to take off!



No water? Base is truly half lemon juice and half pineapple juice?

If I'm following you I think what you're making is much more than just a DB variation. 

Please keep us up to date on how your version progresses.


----------



## MrsJones

Question on the three day to confirm stable SG rule. I would much rather rack today when I have lots of time then do a rush job Monday afterwork. Is there harm in transferring to secondary when SG has only been constant for two days?

I started my DB following the recipe exactly except for an extra 1.5lb fruit.

sg was 1.072 on start on Oct 17th, 1.0 on the 24th and .994 for the last two days.

Temp has fluctuated between 20-22c


----------



## bkisel

MrsJones said:


> Question on the three day to confirm stable SG rule. I would much rather rack today when I have lots of time then do a rush job Monday afterwork. Is there harm in transferring to secondary when SG has only been constant for two days?
> 
> I started my DB following the recipe exactly except for an extra 1.5lb fruit.
> 
> sg was 1.072 on start on Oct 17th, 1.0 on the 24th and .994 for the last two days.
> 
> Temp has fluctuated between 20-22c



With two days at that SG you're likely done or I feel at least close enough that the sorbate in the next step will inhibit further fermentation. You could rack but not stabilize so that you can check SG again tomorrow. If not done you're pretty close and I don't think you'd get much more falling out that you'd need to rack again before stabilizing.


----------



## funjoh

bkisel said:


> No water? Base is truly half lemon juice and half pineapple juice?
> 
> If I'm following you I think what you're making is much more than just a DB variation.
> 
> Please keep us up to date on how your version progresses.



Sorry, I meant half and half of what the DB juice called for. I did use water to bring the must to the full level. 

The fermentation started at the 8 hour mark.


----------



## MrsJones

bkisel said:


> With two days at that SG you're likely done or I feel at least close enough that the sorbate in the next step will inhibit further fermentation. You could rack but not stabilize so that you can check SG again tomorrow. If not done you're pretty close and I don't think you'd get much more falling out that you'd need to rack again before stabilizing.




Thank you for the advice!! I've finished racking and will hold on adding the next chems until I confirm sg tomorrow


----------



## RaymondoChin

Bill, thanks for the info on squeezing the peaches. I figured there would be lots of sediment with the peaches from what I've read. I have had really good luck with my berry versions as well. Although the concord grape I helped my wife make did have some sediment in the bottles. That's my fault though. We racked back to primary to backsweeten and then after bench trials decided to leave it dry. So I said we could go ahead and bottle and we did. After I saw the sediment it dawned on me that if we had sweetened it would have gone back in the carboy for a week or so then back in the bucket for bottling. We missed a racking ! I get alot more sediment in bottles from actual wineries though so all is good ! Thanks again. Mark


----------



## funjoh

report on Day 2
- SG=1.050 ) OSG=1.080
- fruit bag (12+ pounds at start) has been reduced in size by 2/3's
- bananas appear to be totally dissolved, skins and all
- raisins are plump and need to be squeezed to mush
- the smell is wonderful
- the taste is highly fruit forward and fresh, just the beginning hint of alcohol

This is a very fun wine to make. I thought the lid might blow off the fermenter so I transferred 1/2 gallon to a jug.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Has anyone tried a Concord Grape version? My cousin picked some for me and is bringing them tomorrow so I am trying to locate some recipe ideas. Jack Keller's recipes take lots of grapes and I really don't know how many pounds she is bringing me so I was looking for other options.

So if you have made a DB version with grapes, did you freeze them first? Thanks in advance!


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, freeze all your fruit---if you can---before making wine from them. It helps them break down during fermentation. Saying that, most wines are made without freezing. I don't have my notes here at work with me, but I have made concord from fresh fruit, using the same method as the DB, minus the lemon juice. The grapes had their own tartness, so I didn't want o overdo it. If you give me until tomorrow, I will post the recipe I used. The wine came out perfect. I used, if I remember right, Welch's conord grape juice to back sweeten.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

dangerdave said:


> Yes, freeze all your fruit---if you can---before making wine from them. It helps them break down during fermentation. Saying that, most wines are made without freezing. I don't have my notes here at work with me, but I have made concord from fresh fruit, using the same method as the DB, minus the lemon juice. The grapes had their own tartness, so I didn't want o overdo it. If you give me until tomorrow, I will post the recipe I used. The wine came out perfect. I used, if I remember right, Welch's conord grape juice to back sweeten.



Thanks, Dave...I really appreciate it!


----------



## funjoh

So...am I getting senile? My batch is SG 1.012, pulled a sample after a nightly squeeze and stir. Took it upstairs, placed it on ice and offered my wife a taste. Mind you, this is 3 days old. She really liked it and we split the glass. Our wine taste is heavy oak Chardonnay and bold Cabernet's, so this is way off course for us. She loved it! Right now it tastes very fruity and has a grapefruit flavor (maybe the mix of lemon and pineapple?). Enough alcohol to know it is an adult beverage. The senile part? Drinking 3 day old wine and loving it???


----------



## vernsgal

1 st dragon blood hitting the 2 year bottled mark in 2 months!


----------



## willie

vernsgal said:


> 1 st dragon blood hitting the 2 year bottled mark in 2 months!



Hey Kim. I cannot believe you have a bottle of DB that is going to 2yrs old in two months. Our 1st batch of which we have only one magnum bottle left is 8 Months old now. I was just tonight thinking of drinking it but now I think we will wait to see what you have to say about the taste of your 1st batch if an when you post it. We think our DB what ever the variation we are drinking at 3-4 months old is just great. 

Will


----------



## bkisel

vernsgal said:


> 1 st dragon blood hitting the 2 year bottled mark in 2 months!



Do you plan to open it sometime soon? Will you post back on how it now tastes? I do hope so. 

Thanks...


----------



## dangerdave

I went to the store the other day to get some fruit and for the first time ever, they did not have the Wyman's Triple Berry Blend! WTH? And there were other frozen fruit blends with _kale_ in them! Are you kidning me, KALE?!

So, I grabbed what I could get, which was the Wyman's Blueberry/Strawberry/Mango Chunks







This is a totally new version for me, so it's got a new name. I've made Dragon Blood, Dragonette, Dragon Port, Dragon Lady...and now..._Dragon Lord_. With a new label, of course...






We'll just see how this one turns out.


----------



## stanfkd

Racked off my first DB today. SG stable at. .990 for three days. Beautiful even before clearing. Thanks Dave!


----------



## dangerdave

Looks great, Stan! It's gonna be delicious! 

And you are very welcome! Thanks for posting!


----------



## vernsgal

willie said:


> Hey Kim. I cannot believe you have a bottle of DB that is going to 2yrs old in two months. Our 1st batch of which we have only one magnum bottle left is 8 Months old now. I was just tonight thinking of drinking it but now I think we will wait to see what you have to say about the taste of your 1st batch if an when you post it. We think our DB what ever the variation we are drinking at 3-4 months old is just great.
> 
> Will





bkisel said:


> Do you plan to open it sometime soon? Will you post back on how it now tastes? I do hope so.
> 
> Thanks...


Will definitely post reviews at the 2 year mark


----------



## RaymondoChin

I helped my wife make a concord DB using fresh grapes. We bottled it a couple weeks ago. I dont know exactly how many pounds of grapes we had but it was 4 one gallon ziplock bags after we picked them off the stems. We did freeze them. We also used the lemon juice but only 24 oz. We did some trials for back sweetening and my wife liked it best dry. So no backsweeten.


----------



## MrsJones

First batch of DB, I spent three days degassing (vacu vin and stirring combo) before adding sparkaloid and this is three days after that.




Just watching and waiting for it to clear....can't wait!


----------



## willie

MrsJones said:


> First batch of DB, I spent three days degassing (vacu vin and stirring combo) before adding sparkaloid and this is three days after that.
> 
> View attachment 18757
> 
> 
> Just watching and waiting for it to clear....can't wait!



That's a great looking batch Mrs. Jones. We are getting ready to do our 2nd rack after clearing and will be back sweetening at that time. It is a Wyman's 3 berry blend (9lbs) with added strawberry's. 

Will


----------



## MrsJones

Thanks Will! The strawberries sound like a great addition! I'm thinking huckleberry will be next for me.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

MrsJones said:


> Thanks Will! The strawberries sound like a great addition! I'm thinking huckleberry will be next for me.



I made a huckleberry version a couple months back...it is delicious!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Just curious what different types of Dragon Blood everyone has made? What has been your favorite? So gar I have made:


Triple Berry
Tropical
Plum-Berry
Huckleberry
Elderberry
Blueberry
Blackberry (still clearing in the carboy)
Christmas Wine (this has figs, triple berry blend, tropical blend, cloves and star anise) (just started on Thursday)

I don't know if I have a favorite so far...they have all been wonderful


----------



## bkisel

1 Quad Berry
2 Penta Berry
1 Peach
Another Penta Berry in a few months


----------



## stanfkd

Racked and back sweetened my first DB today. Some one tell me what to do with this half bottle of "overage"?


----------



## MrsJones

stanfkd said:


> Racked and back sweetened my first DB today. Some one tell me what to do with this half bottle of "overage"?View attachment 18759
> View attachment 18760




Add a teaspoon of sugar, chill it, drink it


----------



## stanfkd

Way ahead of you MrsJones! I think me and you are close together with our batches . Mine cleared faster than the recipe said.


----------



## MrsJones

Mines not clearing very quickly at all  thinking u might have messed something up


----------



## bkisel

All three of my DB berry blends cleared in about two days or so.


----------



## geek

I stabilized and added super kleer to my peach mango like 3 days ago and not showing much progress of clearing.

I bought this super kleer over a year ago and suspect and it now old and not working properly...grrrr


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

geek said:


> I stabilized and added super kleer to my peach mango like 3 days ago and not showing much progress of clearing.
> 
> I bought this super kleer over a year ago and suspect and it now old and not working properly...grrrr



The batches that I have added plum to took forever to clear and I think that peaches may be another fruit that takes a while.


----------



## calvin

My "sweet strawberry tart". I followed Dave's contest winning instructions to a "T". I think I'll steal a taste before bottling. I hope I like it because I'm not sure what else I could do to make it awesome. Sure looks good though


----------



## MrsJones

MrsJones said:


> Mines not clearing very quickly at all  thinking u might have messed something up




That was meant to be 'thinking I might have messed something up.' 

Has anyone else had an original DB that took longer than a few days to clear?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

MrsJones said:


> That was meant to be 'thinking I might have messed something up.'
> 
> Has anyone else had an original DB that took longer than a few days to clear?



Did you thoroughly degass? If you haven't, that can cause clearing issues. I believe I have also heard that if your temperature is too cool, it can delay clearing. That being said, I believe that I have had an original DB that took 4-5 days to clear completely.


----------



## cdevrard

Hey All,

Started my first batch of DB over the weekend. It is an original "triple berry" recipe with a few changes. I added two bananas. Also I think my nutrients were different strengths than listed in Dave's recipe so I followed the label which varied from the recipe a bit (not much though). I also went for a higher SG @ 1.090. I don't know why but my wines always seem to poop out at about 1.000. This way if the norm happens I'll get an abv of almost 12%. If it does go a bit higher I'm ok with that. 

Pitched the yeast yesterday afternoon. By this morning there was a nice layer of foam on top. Yay! Should have taken a pic. Oh well, I'll take some along the way. 

Cheers. 
CE

PS. the starting PH was 2.97 which really surprised me. Seems pretty acidic (yes only 1 bottle of 48oz lemon juice). Is this in line with other batches?


----------



## cdevrard

Val,

I LOVE the sound of the Christmas wine. The thought of adding figs, cloves and star anise sounds divine. When and how much did you use? Started my DB yesterday and I wonder if it isn't too late to play with it a bit! 

Thanks,

CE 



Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Just curious what different types of Dragon Blood everyone has made? What has been your favorite? So gar I have made:
> 
> 
> Triple Berry
> Tropical
> Plum-Berry
> Huckleberry
> Elderberry
> Blueberry
> Blackberry (still clearing in the carboy)
> Christmas Wine (this has figs, triple berry blend, tropical blend, cloves and star anise) (just started on Thursday)
> 
> I don't know if I have a favorite so far...they have all been wonderful


----------



## willie

cdevrard said:


> Val,
> 
> I LOVE the sound of the Christmas wine. The thought of adding figs, cloves and star anise sounds divine. When and how much did you use? Started my DB yesterday and I wonder if it isn't too late to play with it a bit!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> CE



If you just started your ferment yesterday I would say you can add what ever you want right now to flavor. I have even added raisins in the secondary and turned out just fine. Experiment is the name of the game. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

cdevrard said:


> Val,
> 
> I LOVE the sound of the Christmas wine. The thought of adding figs, cloves and star anise sounds divine. When and how much did you use? Started my DB yesterday and I wonder if it isn't too late to play with it a bit!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> CE



I found the recipe online (maybe here on the forum...it's called Christmas 2013 Wine). Anyway, I used 1 lb of figs, 3 cloves, and about 4 star anise. The recipe actually called for licorice sticks but I didn't have any so substituted the anise. I don't know how it will end up but I can tell you that it smells divine in the fermenter!


----------



## willie

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Just curious what different types of Dragon Blood everyone has made? What has been your favorite? So gar I have made:
> 
> 
> Triple Berry
> Tropical
> Plum-Berry
> Huckleberry
> Elderberry
> Blueberry
> Blackberry (still clearing in the carboy)
> Christmas Wine (this has figs, triple berry blend, tropical blend, cloves and 4. star anise) (just started on Thursday)
> 
> I don't know if I have a favorite so far...they have all been wonderful



DB batches I have made. 

1. Triple Berry 
2. Quad Berry And back sweetened with Bacardi frozen Strawberry Daiquiri Mix and Sugar. 
3. Wyman's Triple Berry Blend with added Strawberries
4. Tropical Blend with added 2 cans Welches 100% frozen White Grape Juice and Added a box of white raisins in the secondary. The wife loves this one. 
5. Blue Blood, 12lbs.100% Wyman's Wild Blue Berry's. This will be our Christmas wine.

Will


----------



## freqflyer

cdevrard said:


> PS. the starting PH was 2.97 which really surprised me. Seems pretty acidic (yes only 1 bottle of 48oz lemon juice). Is this in line with other batches?



I haven't test the ph but this stuff is tart. I didn't like it at first. Since I had 30 bottles of it I decided to start drinking it anyway. I added two teaspoons of sugar to each bottle. This on top of the 3/4 cup per gallon of sugar I added when back sweetening. After a few bottles, it has grown on me.

I currently have a batch of dragonette without any acid blend in it. I'm going to mix the two in different ratios to find what I like.

Dave has come up with a really good simple wine recipe, but rather than being nonoffensive to most people, it seems to be taylored to his liking and a lot of others.

You may like it as is or you may need to experiment to find what suits you. Be sure to age some for a few months. It makes a big difference.


----------



## MrsJones

*DB Not Clearing*



Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Did you thoroughly degass? If you haven't, that can cause clearing issues. I believe I have also heard that if your temperature is too cool, it can delay clearing. That being said, I believe that I have had an original DB that took 4-5 days to clear completely.



Hey Val,

I did; but it took me three days to get it to degass completely. I racked (waited for stable SG, and temp was pretty constant at 21C), added the Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate as per directions and then spent three degass stirring and using my vacu vin alternatvily. 

On the third day I add Sparkolloid as per directions - today will be the fourth day since then; and it's still super, super dark. There is some sediment on the bottom that looks pinkish in colour.

I have bung/airlock on it; and it's just hanging out in my closet undisturbed; but I'm thinking that taking three days to degas instead of adding Spark. when I added the potassiums was maybe the wrong thing to do?


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, the wine is acidic. Sweet, tart, and fruity. Balance is the key. Mine comes out right around pH 3.00


----------



## geek

dangerdave said:


> Yes, the wine is acidic. Sweet, tart, and fruity. Balance is the key. Mine comes out right around pH 3.00



have you checked the PH when making it with other fruits like peach for example?
I just made a peach mango and added 1 32oz lemon juice, PH was around 3.50 or so.


----------



## dangerdave

No, I have not, Varis. Thanks for the info.


----------



## dangerdave

Val was asking about my concord grape version of the Dragon Blood Recipe, so I'll post it here. Notes follow:

*Batch #82:* "_Baptist Hill Concord Grape Wine_" (the nice lady who gave me the grapes lives on Baptist Hill Road)







9-23-13 To primary, added: 20 cups sugar; 48oz Real Lemon Juice; 2 tsp tannin; 3 tsp yeast nutrient; 1 tsp yeast energizer; 4 tsp pectic enzyme; 1/4 tsp potassium metabisulfite; ~25 lbs of fresh concord grapes in two mesh bags (12.5 lbs each); water to six gallons. SG = 1.085 @ 72F (no brew belt applied for longer, cooler ferment)

9-24-13 Pitched EC-1118 yeast

9-26-13 SG = 1.065 @ 72F (squeezed fruit bags and stirred daily)

9-29-13 SG = 1.000 @ 72F

10-5-13 SG = 0.992 @ 68F Racked and added 1/4 tsp sulfite and 3 tsp sorbate; degassed thoroughly; added Sparkolloid per directions.

11-9-13 Racked and added 4 cans of Welch's Concord Grape Concentrate

11-14-13 Filtered and bottled.

It came out perfect! Those who tasted it commented how it was just like eating a concord grape off the vine.


----------



## geek

Hmmm, that sounds good Dave....


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## geek

Oh, do you know if Super Kleer expires?
Although added recently to my peach mango, this batch doesn't show signs of dropping much sediment.
I bought the SK packets over a year ago....


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## dangerdave

I was told by the manufacturer that it's shelf life in infinite. No experation.

At the risk of sounding like a parrot again... Varis, peaches are high in pectin. Most of the wines I have made using peaches have needed an extra dose of pectic enzyme to clear. Pectin haze is the number one cause of cloudy wine, and adding it (or more) will not affect the wine. So, if it doesn't clear quickly with SK (which it should), you should dose it with three tsp of pectic enzyme (for six gallons). Stir well. It will clear up shortly.


----------



## geek

Ok, I will try.
Per recipe, I added pectic enzyme at the start.
The carboy has some sediment already (but wine is very cloudy..!!), so I will rack off those lees and then add 3 more tsp of pectic enzyme and stir well.....let's see how it goes.....

Thanks,


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

dangerdave said:


> Val was asking about my concord grape version of the Dragon Blood Recipe, so I'll post it here. Notes follow:
> 
> 9-23-13 To primary, added: 20 cups sugar; 48oz Real Lemon Juice; 2 tsp tannin; 3 tsp yeast nutrient; 1 tsp yeast energizer; 4 tsp pectic enzyme; 1/4 tsp potassium metabisulfite; ~25 lbs of fresh concord grapes in two mesh bags (12.5 lbs each); water to six gallons. SG = 1.085 @ 72F (no brew belt applied for longer, cooler ferment)
> 
> 9-24-13 Pitched EC-1118 yeast
> 
> 9-26-13 SG = 1.065 @ 72F (squeezed fruit bags and stirred daily)
> 
> 9-29-13 SG = 1.000 @ 72F
> 
> 10-5-13 SG = 0.992 @ 68F Racked and added 1/4 tsp sulfite and 3 tsp sorbate; degassed thoroughly; added Sparkolloid per directions.
> 
> 11-9-13 Racked and added 4 cans of Welch's Concord Grape Concentrate
> 
> 11-14-13 Filtered and bottled.
> 
> It came out perfect! Those who tasted it commented how it was just like eating a concord grape off the vine.



So you did use lemon juice for this batch? When you originally responded, I was thinking you said you didn't use any for the concord grape.

Thanks for posting this, Dave!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

MrsJones said:


> Hey Val,
> 
> I did; but it took me three days to get it to degass completely. I racked (waited for stable SG, and temp was pretty constant at 21C), added the Potassium Metabisulfite and Potassium Sorbate as per directions and then spent three degass stirring and using my vacu vin alternatvily.
> 
> On the third day I add Sparkolloid as per directions - today will be the fourth day since then; and it's still super, super dark. There is some sediment on the bottom that looks pinkish in colour.
> 
> I have bung/airlock on it; and it's just hanging out in my closet undisturbed; but I'm thinking that taking three days to degas instead of adding Spark. when I added the potassiums was maybe the wrong thing to do?



I degas before adding the clearing agent, though I use SuperKleer instead of Sparkaloid. I wouldn't think that the timing of your Sparkaloid addition would be the culprit.


----------



## MrsJones

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I degas before adding the clearing agent, though I use SuperKleer instead of Sparkaloid. I wouldn't think that the timing of your Sparkaloid addition would be the culprit.




Thanks Val. I guess I'll just keep watching and waiting. I was reading about pectin haze; maybe that's what's going on.


----------



## MrsJones

Oh! Question; would it hurt to add a different clearing agent like the one you suggested; or should I continue to wait it out?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

MrsJones said:


> Thanks Val. I guess I'll just keep watching and waiting. I was reading about pectin haze; maybe that's what's going on.



Check out Dave's replies to Geek above regarding pectic haze...



dangerdave said:


> ...Pectin haze is the number one cause of cloudy wine, and adding it (or more) will not affect the wine. So, if it doesn't clear quickly with SK (which it should), you should dose it with three tsp of pectic enzyme (for six gallons). Stir well. It will clear up shortly.



So this might help in your case as well if you are suspecting pectic haze with yours.



MrsJones said:


> Oh! Question; would it hurt to add a different clearing agent like the one you suggested; or should I continue to wait it out?



As for adding a different clearing agent, from what I've heard/read/been told, it won't hurt anything.

_If it were me_, I might try a bit of pectic enzyme, give it a few days and then if it's still not clearing, try some SuperKleer.


----------



## dangerdave

Val gives good advice.

And yes, as it turns out, I _did_ use lemon juice. Something makes me want to turn everything into a DB version. Please stop me if I ever talk about adding lemon juice to a nice merlot! _Please_!


----------



## MrsJones

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Check out Dave's replies to Geek above regarding pectic haze...
> 
> So this might help in your case as well if you are suspecting pectic haze with yours.
> 
> As for adding a different clearing agent, from what I've heard/read/been told, it won't hurt anything.
> 
> _If it were me_, I might try a bit of pectic enzyme, give it a few days and then if it's still not clearing, try some SuperKleer.



Hey Val!


Thanks for the advice; I really appreciate it! I racked last night as there was some sediment, and dosed with Pectic Enzyme (3 tsp/6 gallons as per Dave). It still looked dark this morning; but i'll give it a few days now before adding another clearing agent.


----------



## cdevrard

Well, looks like my 1st DB is off to a slow start. On the 2nd day I am only at 1.084 down from 1.090. But the temp in the house is cool and the wine is at 67* this morning. Also I usually make a yeast starter but this time I just followed the DB recipe with regards to yeast prep. 

There is definitely something going on in there! And it smells great too


----------



## willie

cdevrard said:


> Well, looks like my 1st DB is off to a slow start. On the 2nd day I am only at 1.084 down from 1.090. But the temp in the house is cool and the wine is at 67* this morning. Also I usually make a yeast starter but this time I just followed the DB recipe with regards to yeast prep.
> 
> There is definitely something going on in there! And it smells great too



Your ferment bucket looks very normal. As you said your temp is cool and your bucket looks good. Just keep up with the squeezing and stirring and take daily reading's. Continue with Danger Dave's process and you will be fine. 

Will


----------



## calvin

Best yeast for the original recipe? 71b-1122. Or ec-1118. I'm starting a 12 gallon batch and will be pitching the yeast tomorrow. I have both on hand

What do you think?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

calvin said:


> Best yeast for the original recipe? 71b-1122. Or ec-1118. I'm starting a 12 gallon batch and will be pitching the yeast tomorrow. I have both on hand
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I have always used EC-1118 for my DB batches and they have fermented really well. I've never done a comparison though!


----------



## geek

@dangerdave

Dave, I was just wondering....kits make you back sweeten (when appropriate) right before adding fining agents.
Your recipe calls for back sweeten after fining agents and when wine is clear.

Have you tried doing it like kits do, any difference?


----------



## bkisel

geek said:


> @dangerdave
> 
> Dave, I was just wondering....kits make you back sweeten (when appropriate) right before adding fining agents.
> Your recipe calls for back sweeten after fining agents and when wine is clear.
> 
> Have you tried doing it like kits do, any difference?



Varis, The 4 DBs I've done were all back sweetened right after stabilizing agents and some stirring and just before clearing agents. Also, like the kits I've done the two clearing agents for my DB are added just minutes apart - after ~ 2-3 minutes of stirring in the first. My DBs have come out just fine with no negatives that I can detect.


----------



## geek

Thanks Bill.

On my peach mango I stabilized and added clearing agent but didn't back sweeten.
Wine is not clear so adding more pectic enzyme and will see how it comes out and then will decide what to use to back sweeten.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

Varis, guess it is the pectic haze that I've learned about here on the forum. About how long will it take for the enzyme to clear the wine?


----------



## geek

I'll see and let you know, planning on adding it maybe tonight if time permits....on route to the city for another work assignment ...


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## MrsJones

geek said:


> Thanks Bill.
> 
> On my peach mango I stabilized and added clearing agent but didn't back sweeten.
> Wine is not clear so adding more pectic enzyme and will see how it comes out and then will decide what to use to back sweeten.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making




Mine is not clearing either . I added more peptic enzyme a day and a half ago, but no change. If still nothing by the weekend I'm going to try a different clearing agent.


----------



## calvin

I would give it at least a week after the additional pectic enzyme before you try anything else


----------



## cintipam

I agree with Calvin. I've read it can take a couple weeks. It usually has cleared in 6-9 days for me tho.

Pam in cinti


----------



## dangerdave

Agreed, wait out the enzyme a bit. There are only a few things that can cause a wine to not clear properly. Next in line after pectin haze would be insufficient degassing.

As for the yeats...I have done a yeast comparison study using those same yeasts on the DB recipe, here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f86/yeast-comparison-ec-1118-vs-71b-1122-a-39619/

You can read for yourself what my conclusions were, but if you don't feel like reading it all, I liked the outcome of the EC-1118 the best.


----------



## calvin

Dave, wish I would have read your yeast comparison post before I started my 12 gallon batch. Oh well. Did you age a few bottles to see if you still liked the 1118 the best? Did you or James ever do a comparison with red star yeast?


----------



## dangerdave

Maybe your outcome will be more to your liking than mine, Calvin. We all have different taste, as you well know. I have used Red Star yeast before, with good results.

As for aging? I like my DB young. For me, the flavor seems to drop off after about six months. Those that I have saved over a year developed what I could only describe as a "spicey" taste. Not bad in any way, but not what I want in my DB. Not surprisingly, we don't have much problem drinking ours up fairly quickly.


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> ... Not surprisingly, we don't have much problem drinking ours up fairly quickly.



Yeah, same here plus coming to only ~ $3.00 per bottle total for both hardware and software - and being so good - a lot of my bottles of DB are given away.


----------



## geek

bkisel said:


> a lot of my bottles of DB are given away.




Yup...what Bill said... 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## dangerdave

Hah! True that! My coworkers, bemoaning my impending retirement, are clambering about where their going to get free Dragon Blood!

I need to give some classes, I think. "Teach a man to fish..."


----------



## calvin

Dave, Your sweet strawberry tart is fantastic! It puts my island mist strawberry white Merlot to shame. I now know why you won the contest. Good news is we are all winners because the recipe is out there for everyone. I think my wife is really going to like it. I have a feeling I will be making lots of it!

Thanks again Dave


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

My straight blackberry Dragon Blood got bottled today! I made half of the bottles "dry" and the rest sweet.


----------



## bkisel

That looks awesome! The wine, the labels and even the overall photo layout. 

About the labels... Did you design and print them out yourself or use a label service? If you did them yourself how did you go about getting the ragged edges?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> That looks awesome! The wine, the labels and even the overall photo layout.
> 
> About the labels... Did you design and print them out yourself or use a label service? If you did them yourself how did you go about getting the ragged edges?



Thanks, Bill! Yes, I design and print out the labels myself. I just found the edging scissor recently on Amazon to make the ragged edges...it is works good and I love how it looks! It does take a little extra time, but it gives me something to do when I sit and watch TV in the evening. Besides, I love creating my labels almost as much as I love making the wine


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Thanks, Bill! Yes, I design and print out the labels myself. I just found the edging scissor recently on Amazon to make the ragged edges...it is works good and I love how it looks! It does take a little extra time, but it gives me something to do when I sit and watch TV in the evening. Besides, I love creating my labels almost as much as I love making the wine



I find designing and making custom labels for those to whom I'm going to gift a bottle of wine particularly rewarding. Downside (?) is you'll seldome get negative feedback on your wine when its gifted with a custom label made just for that person.


----------



## willie

dangerdave said:


> Maybe your outcome will be more to your liking than mine, Calvin. We all have different taste, as you well know. I have used Red Star yeast before, with good results.
> 
> As for aging? I like my DB young. For me, the flavor seems to drop off after about six months. Those that I have saved over a year developed what I could only describe as a "spicey" taste. Not bad in any way, but not what I want in my DB. Not surprisingly, we don't have much problem drinking ours up fairly quickly.



Two days ago my wife and I opened a bottle of Original DB that was almost nine months old and it had lost a lot of that real good berry taste we have come to love. The batches I have made seem to be at peak flavor around 2-4 months old.
I was thinking of aging it longer but now I'm rethinking this and will be drinking and giving away by the time the DB wine reaches 6 months old. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

willie said:


> Two days ago my wife and I opened a bottle of Original DB that was almost nine months old and it had lost a lot of that real good berry taste we have come to love. The batches I have made seem to be at peak flavor around 2-4 months old.
> I was thinking of aging it longer but now I'm rethinking this and will be drinking and giving away by the time the DB wine reaches 6 months old.
> 
> Will



I have stockpiled lots of DB in the cellar but both yours and Dave's posts are now making me a little nervous. Kind of sounds like I need to be gifting lots of wine over the holidays to make sure it gets drank during its prime!

For anyone who has managed to save a bottle for the 1-2 year range, what is your opinion of the taste at that point? Does it regain some of the berry flavor if you can wait it out?


----------



## willie

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I have stockpiled lots of DB in the cellar but both yours and Dave's posts are now making me a little nervous. Kind of sounds like I need to be gifting lots of wine over the holidays to make sure it gets drank during its prime!
> 
> For anyone who has managed to save a bottle for the 1-2 year range, what is your opinion of the taste at that point? Does it regain some of the berry flavor if you can wait it out?



Hang in here Val, Kim said said they will be posting tasting results of their 2 yr. old bottle on here shortly. 

Will


----------



## bmwr75

My first 6 gallon batch is ready to bottle. Has anyone bottled DB in 1 gallon jugs instead of 750 ml bottles? If yes, is this a good idea if it will be consumed pretty quickly once opened (say withing 1-2 weeks)?


----------



## toddrod

I bottle in 1 gallon jugs and it might take me 1.5 weeks to drink it all. I do not notice any difference in flavor


----------



## Medic8106

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My straight blackberry Dragon Blood got bottled today! I made half of the bottles "dry" and the rest sweet.



I just opened my first bottle of straight blackberry dragon blood tonight and it's fantastic! I back sweeten 1 cup per gallon.


----------



## bkisel

Medic8106 said:


> I just opened my first bottle of straight blackberry dragon blood tonight and it's fantastic! I back sweeten 1 cup per gallon.



Congrats! Was that with 6 pounds of blackberry?

Ps. Often pass through Carlisle on my way to and from family hunting property near exit 180 off the Pennsy Tpk.


----------



## Medic8106

bkisel said:


> Congrats! Wa that with 6 pounds of blackberry?
> 
> Ps. Often pass through Carlisle on my way to and from family hunting property near exit 180 off the Pennsy Tpk.



I had 5 pounds of fresh picked berries and made just over 3 finished gallons with them. Also added two bananas to the initial must. 

I work for the PA Turnpike at the central office in Harrisburg. I live right of the turnpike near the Carlisle fairgrounds which you pass and can see from the pike.


----------



## cdevrard

Well, my first six gallon batch is at 1.012 this morning and 65.5 deg. Getting close! Looking forward to getting this into secondary so I can start my next batch of peach wine. There is only so much room in the kitchen!

Btw, I too drive through Carlisle on a fairly regular basis from the other direction. I live down outside of Williamsport Maryland. We go up to the Carlisle fairgrounds for some of the car shows and my wife (college professor) has done events/held forums at Dickenson. 

Cheers,

CE


----------



## bkisel

Medic8106 said:


> I had 5 pounds of fresh picked berries and made just over 3 finished gallons with them. Also added two bananas to the initial must.
> 
> I work for the PA Turnpike at the central office in Harrisburg. I live right of the turnpike near the Carlisle fairgrounds which you pass and can see from the pike.



Filled my anterless tag last time out. Will be passing through Carlisle tomorrow morning with hopes of getting a nice buck over the course of the next few days. I prefer not to be in the woods, even on private property, during gun season.


----------



## bkisel

cdevrard said:


> ... Looking forward to getting this into secondary so I can start my next batch of peach wine. There is only so much room in the kitchen!
> ...
> Cheers,
> 
> CE



Will that peach wine be a DB variation or another recipe entirely?

I made a DB peach variation last time around. It came out okay but left plenty of room for improvement.


----------



## geek

My peach mango still hazy and far from clear after adding 3 tsp of pectic enzyme....grrrr


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bmwr75

Racked and sweetened my first 6 gallon batch with 4 cups of sugar today. Even the wife was pleasantly surprised with the flavor!! Ordered 30 clear bottles for next weekend.


----------



## dangerdave

bmwr75 said:


> Racked and sweetened my first 6 gallon batch with 4 cups of sugar today. Even the wife was pleasantly surprised with the flavor!! Ordered 30 clear bottles for next weekend.


 
Give is a few weeks, it will be even better!

Great job, though. Note to you...START SOME MORE NOW!


----------



## boozehound

I love that sayn Dave. "Start some more now". It is so true. Love this stuff!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## Medic8106

I see Jack Keller acknowledged Dave's Dragon Blood wine in his wine blog for Nov 9th. Congrats!

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/wineblognew.asp#110914B


----------



## dangerdave

Wow! I have tons of respect for Jack.

Did I say "WOW"...I mean...wow...


----------



## cdevrard

Bill,

This will just be a straight peach, no water, let it clear and bulk age for a year type of country wine. 

One of the things that attracted me to try DB is the speed which is usually achieved. Wine making and bow hunting have taught me patience however, even though my carboys are full, my wine shelf is empty right now! 



bkisel said:


> Will that peach wine be a DB variation or another recipe entirely?
> 
> I made a DB peach variation last time around. It came out okay but left plenty of room for improvement.


----------



## barryjo

*big blackberry*

Recently bottled my Blackberry Dragon. I used a recipe from fabrictodyefor and made a few changes. I used a 96 oz can of Vintners harvest since "real " ones are not too good around here. I used 48 oz lemon juice and 11 cans of frozen grape juice. Water to 5 gallons. Plus the usual chemicals. Sweetened the starting SG to 1.090. Could have been a bit lower. The wine finished at 1.000 and ABV of 12.3%. I did backsweeten half to about 1.010 but probably prefer the drier version. It cleared great with sparkolloid. My "taste panel" agrees it is awesome.


----------



## ringonu

I just started my first DB based on the original recipe which is also my first non-kit wine and just my 3rd wine to date. I am seeing large bubbles/foam in the primary. Is this normal? It is on the bottom of the pic. I searched and could not find a pic that looked similar. Thanks.


----------



## geek

What yeast did you pitch? 
Some yeasts are notorious for that, I found that in some cases it could be a sign of stress in the yeast and it needs some nutrient (again, depending on yeast).


----------



## ringonu

I used EC-1118. OG was 1.070 at 70*. The recipe was followed except for using 64oz of lemon juice. Stirred and squeezed daily. The pic is the 3rd day after pitching the yeast. Smells good and is fermenting. I will give it another stir and squeeze tonight an see if it looks the same tomorrow


----------



## barryjo

Medic8106 said:


> I just opened my first bottle of straight blackberry dragon blood tonight and it's fantastic! I back sweeten 1 cup per gallon.


 
So what was the finishing SG and what did you end up with after sweetening???? Also,what was the ABV??
I did a Blackberry Dragon with Vintners Harvest fruit base. My end SG was 1.000 and ABV was 12.3. YUP! Awesome.


----------



## Medic8106

barryjo said:


> So what was the finishing SG and what did you end up with after sweetening???? Also,what was the ABV??
> I did a Blackberry Dragon with Vintners Harvest fruit base. My end SG was 1.000 and ABV was 12.3. YUP! Awesome.



I started at 1.080, finished .998 for and abv of 11%. Sweetened to 1.02 i think it was around 1 cup of sugar per gallon. Added two bananas to must but I'm not sure it changed anything. It turned out great so i would probably do it again.


----------



## MrsJones

Thanks to everyone who helped me a week or so ago when my DB wasn't clearing (Val, Dave, Calvin, Pam & others). I had added the extra pectin enzyme but wasn't holding my breath after a few days with no change.

Well, I've been out Christmas shopping for the last five days with my family from out of town and came back to this beautiful site!




Now to rack off the lees that dropped and back sweeten, huzzah!


----------



## geek

I added pectic enzyme to my peach mango but no signs of clearing after 4 days.....


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## MrsJones

geek said:


> I added pectic enzyme to my peach mango but no signs of clearing after 4 days.....




I thought mine wasn't until my husband held the flashlight at a different angle and I stepped back. It was just because it was so dark I could see that it was clear.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

MrsJones said:


> Thanks to everyone who helped me a week or so ago when my DB wasn't clearing (Val, Dave, Calvin, Pam & others). I had added the extra pectin enzyme but wasn't holding my breath after a few days with no change.
> 
> Well, I've been out Christmas shopping for the last five days with my family from out of town and came back to this beautiful site!
> 
> View attachment 18943
> 
> 
> Now to rack off the lees that dropped and back sweeten, huzzah!
> 
> View attachment 18944



It looks lovely!!! My concord grape isn't wanting to clear either so I added some tannin (I didn't add any to begin with) and next I will add some more pectic enzyme. Patience is so hard when all you want to do is get it in the bottle and start tasting it...lol.


----------



## dangerdave

Mrs. Jones, that looks great! Nice color! Glad it cleared up for you. Pectin can be a pain sometimes. Those are the broken pectin protein chains gathered on the bottom, beautiful clear wine, above.

Varis, I've had problems with peach clearing. Let it sit. It may take some extra time. If it's not cleared up after a couple of weeks or so, you'll need to revisit this.


----------



## MrsJones

Thanks Val, Dave! This forum really is the best!


----------



## geek

dangerdave said:


> Mrs. Jones, that looks great! Nice color! Glad it cleared up for you. Pectin can be a pain sometimes. Those are the broken pectin protein chains gathered on the bottom, beautiful clear wine, above.
> 
> Varis, I've had problems with peach clearing. Let it sit. It may take some extra time. If it's not cleared up after a couple of weeks or so, you'll need to revisit this.



Thanks Dave, I will.....
Bill gave me a bottle of his peach DB he made recently and it was pretty clear in a short time.
I added a mango bag to the mix and back sweeten with a can of frozen white grape juice and simple syrup....


----------



## Thig

Has anyone bottled this or Skeeter pee in pint mason jars? It would be a match to my apple pie.


----------



## dangerdave

I use to do some jars. Now, most of it goes in gallon jugs in the fridge. Less work for me!


----------



## Thig

Well that works too, I just wondered if there was any reason it needed to be in a corked bottle.


----------



## boozehound

Hi friends. I want to giv a update on a tropical and blueberry that I added oak too. From a 6 gal batch I bottled 4 gals of each and made 2 1 gals of each. I added French oak to 1 and American oak to 1. I used oak chips with amount being 1/2oz which was close to a 1/4 cup. I just added chips straight to jugs. No soaking (there are different opinions on that but that's what I did). I left it sit for a month and racked off chips today. I think all 4 were great. It definitely put a different flavor in them and I can't even pick which one was the best. If poeple r looking for a new twist on the original try this I'm glad I did. 




Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## dangerdave

I add oak to all my batches of DB, now. I really like the rich woody flavor imparted by the untoast oak. I think it compliments the tart fruitiness very well. I agree, it is very much worth trying.


----------



## calvin

Dave. Does your LHBS carry untoasted oak? Do you put it in the primary or later on. I've been using medium toast French oak in the primary and like the results.


----------



## MrsJones

Bottled my first DB today, and it's beautiful! Thank you to everyone who help me over the last few weeks.



30 Bottles and half a jug.



...and half a glass

Cheers!


----------



## beano

*Dragon Blood Variation*

This is just another variation of the most famous Danger Daves Dragon Blood. I hope it comes out well, but as always, I'm sure it will. It is for 6 gallons.

This recipe contains:

4 lbs. frozen quadberry mix (strawberrys, blueberrys, red raspberrys and blackberrys)
1.5 lbs. fresh cranberrys, frozen then thawed.
32 oz. Welches concord grape jelly
1 big banana, frozen then thawed, sliced thin.
8 oz. red raisins
32 oz. lemon juice concentrate 
Invert sugar to SG of 1.110 (my taste)

Other than the fruit ingredients, I followed the standard Dragon Blood recipe as far as the chemical additions go with the exception of an extra 1/2 tsp peptic enzyme because of the jelly. The jelly seems to add alot more flavor to the DB. I get it when its on sale at the Dollar General @ $2.00 a quart.
Just thought I'd share and I will update in a day or two on the progress of this ferminte.
I just pitched my yeast a few minites before tacking this pic. It looks good and has a great taste. We'll see what happens, yup!!

Beano Joe


----------



## SwampDog35

I'm on my 5th day of DB in the primary. Currently at 1.034 sg. Am I right on track? Wife and I chose not to put the lemon juice in the recipe. Should I add anything to replace the acid of the lemon juice?

Thanks


----------



## willie

MrsJones said:


> Bottled my first DB today, and it's beautiful! Thank you to everyone who help me over the last few weeks.
> 
> View attachment 19047
> 
> 30 Bottles and half a jug.
> 
> View attachment 19048
> 
> ...and half a glass
> 
> Cheers!



Congrats and enjoy MrsJones. I remember my first DB batch when we bottled it. I was amazed I could even do such a thing. 

Will


----------



## willie

SwampDog35 said:


> I'm on my 5th day of DB in the primary. Currently at 1.034 sg. Am I right on track? Wife and I chose not to put the lemon juice in the recipe. Should I add anything to replace the acid of the lemon juice?
> 
> Thanks



Your right on track there SwampDog with your SG reading. Its coming along quickly I believe. And as for not using any lemon juice I have never made any DB without lemon or lime juice. Usually about 30-40 ounces or so. I have Acid Blend but have not used it yet. I believe Dave has said the lemon juice helps to balance the wine. 

Will


----------



## MrsJones

willie said:


> Congrats and enjoy MrsJones. I remember my first DB batch when we bottled it. I was amazed I could even do such a thing.
> 
> Will




Me too!! One week you have a bucket of water and some frozen fruit and the next you have closet hootch!! and my husband is so impressed I turned water into wine he's calling it Holy Jones


----------



## willie

beano said:


> This is just another variation of the most famous Danger Daves Dragon Blood. I hope it comes out well, but as always, I'm sure it will. It is for 6 gallons.
> 
> This recipe contains:
> 
> 4 lbs. frozen quadberry mix (strawberrys, blueberrys, red raspberrys and blackberrys)
> 1.5 lbs. fresh cranberrys, frozen then thawed.
> 32 oz. Welches concord grape jelly
> 1 big banana, frozen then thawed, sliced thin.
> 8 oz. red raisins
> 32 oz. lemon juice concentrate
> Invert sugar to SG of 1.110 (my taste)
> 
> Other than the fruit ingredients, I followed the standard Dragon Blood recipe as far as the chemical additions go with the exception of an extra 1/2 tsp peptic enzyme because of the jelly. The jelly seems to add alot more flavor to the DB. I get it when its on sale at the Dollar General @ $2.00 a quart.
> Just thought I'd share and I will update in a day or two on the progress of this ferminte.
> I just pitched my yeast a few minites before tacking this pic. It looks good and has a great taste. We'll see what happens, yup!!
> 
> Beano Joe



Hey Beano that's a nice looking primary you have there. I never heard of using grape jelly before. I will keep it in mind. Thanks. 

Will


----------



## bkisel

MrsJones said:


> ... he's calling it Holy Jones



Holy Jones Lemon Berry Wine... I like the sound of that! 


Or... Holy Jones Elixir?


----------



## beano

Willie, That is a 6-1/2 gallon bucket that I got for free. It once contained rock salt. HDPE 2 with a rubber gasket sealed lid. Great find!!

Jelly...full of flavor, full of sugar, or actually fructose and dextrose and I think lactose. And cheap if you get it on sale. You can make wines out of just jellys, jams, or preserves if you want. I have made a spiced apple wine using apple butter once. Was great. I have lately been adding a quart of grape jelly to most of my fruit wines just for the flavor and the body it adds. To me, it gives a better mouth feel to my wines. Whole Berry Cranberry sause is a great one to use also. For flavor or as a base. Anything with fruit in it needs to be put in a strainer bag. Preserves, jams, whole berry cranberry, etc.
I just use my imagination, so many things in the pantry. 

Beano Joe


----------



## beano

SwampDog35 said:


> I'm on my 5th day of DB in the primary. Currently at 1.034 sg. Am I right on track? Wife and I chose not to put the lemon juice in the recipe. Should I add anything to replace the acid of the lemon juice?
> 
> Thanks




I have made DB without lemon or citrus and added 3 tsp acid blend to the mix. Came out ok but had a bit of a bite so I added 2 more tsp of acid blend and it was great. My 2.0! Others may know better than I.

Beano Joe


----------



## SwampDog35

Thanks Beano, I appreciate your advice.


----------



## beano

New pics of DB must 4 hours later. I love my RedStar Premier Cuvee. Bout all I use, starts fast, last long time! Oh, what was her name...? Oops, sorry. Just kidding ya'll.

Beano Joe


----------



## willie

beano said:


> Willie, That is a 6-1/2 gallon bucket that I got for free. It once contained rock salt. HDPE 2 with a rubber gasket sealed lid. Great find!!
> 
> Jelly...full of flavor, full of sugar, or actually fructose and dextrose and I think lactose. And cheap if you get it on sale. You can make wines out of just jellys, jams, or preserves if you want. I have made a spiced apple wine using apple butter once. Was great. I have lately been adding a quart of grape jelly to most of my fruit wines just for the flavor and the body it adds. To me, it gives a better mouth feel to my wines. Whole Berry Cranberry sause is a great one to use also. For flavor or as a base. Anything with fruit in it needs to be put in a strainer bag. Preserves, jams, whole berry cranberry, etc.
> I just use my imagination, so many things in the pantry.
> 
> Beano Joe




A lot of good info. Beano. Thanks. One of the Flavored ingredients I have added that friends said they liked from a particular batch I have made was Bacardi frozen strawberry daquari mix that I got from one of Gina's posts That she said she used to back sweetened along with sugar. I also have been using Red Star Premier Curvee yeast.

Will


----------



## beano

Just a couple of pics to show what is going on after about 24 hours. This primary sounds like fish frying when you walk into the room. I hope ya'll don't think I'm being anal for showing the blow by blow pics, but it excites me to see this natural process in action, if you know what I mean. I sometimes sit and watch the fermentation and it is just mesmerizing as it has a life of its own.
I'm just rambeling now.

Beano Joe


----------



## bkisel

Started my fifth batch this morning...

Aside from Dave are there any other DB "pentagenarians" here?


----------



## calvin

I've bottled 12 gallons of original
6 cherry lime
6 blackberry
6 strawberry
And have 12 more of original in production


----------



## bkisel

calvin said:


> I've bottled 12 gallons of original
> 6 cherry lime
> 6 blackberry
> 6 strawberry
> And have 12 more of original in production



Wow! That's impressive. My guess is that you give a lot of it away. Is that the case?


----------



## calvin

I give lots away but I drink a lot too. Between the wife and I we go through at least 5 bottles a week


----------



## Jocelyn

Yesterday I bottled my Dragons Blood, me and the hubs were looking at it and noting how no matter how it tastes we would give it away as our Christmas wine because it cleared perfectly and is pretty. So as he got it started he had the first taste. Its really good! he said. I like wine. I do not like sweet wine, and I dislike the mist type kits. My assumption was dragons blood is a mist kit you can make on your own (I made it for everyone else as everybody else likes those mist kits). As we finished bottling and got an exact number of bottles all that was left was what was in the siphon. Richard said try it. I tried it then began frantically looking around at my freshly bottled blood. Good God it's like some sort of ambrosia of the Gods! It is by far the greatest wine I have ever tasted in my life. And I made it! So first of all wow THANKS DAVE! Secondly damn it Dave now I never want to make any other wine and I want to drink everything and give none away for Christmas. So if no one gets Christmas gifts that is on YOUR shoulders Dave. 
And of course I didn't listen when everyone said get your second kit started as soon as the first is in the secondary. Alas I know what I am doing tonight.


----------



## cdevrard

Well my first batch of DB is in 2ndary now  I got 5.5 Gal out of six original. The rest went down the drain with the gross lees. In the .5 gal bottle I can already see the sediment dropping out like crazy. I used Super Kleer as it is what I had on hand.

The other pic is just my "bulk aging supply" at the time. There is 4gal +1.5L of Peach Pear, 4.5 Gal of Plum (middle) and the 5.5 Gal of DB on the right. Yay!


----------



## bkisel

Congrats. Nice clear pics.

You used clearing agent in secondary?


----------



## calvin

Last night I added superkleer to my 12 gallons. It was crystal clear this morning. That stuff is amazing!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Like other people of late, I am having problems getting my Concord Grape DB to clear. It's been 11 days and there has been very little clearing. I have added tannins (I didn't use any to begin with) and extra pectic enzyme. I even moved the carboy into a warmer location in the house thinking my 60 degree bedroom might be a bit chilly for clearing but still nothing. Just debating whether to wait a few more days or to give it another dose of SuperKleer today.

 Decided to go ahead and do a second dose of SuperKleer and it is now clearing beautifully...yay!


----------



## dangerdave

Jocelyn said:


> ...I tried it then began frantically looking around at my freshly bottled blood. Good God it's like some sort of ambrosia of the Gods! It is by far the greatest wine I have ever tasted in my life. And I made it! So first of all wow THANKS DAVE! Secondly damn it Dave now I never want to make any other wine and I want to drink everything and give none away for Christmas. So if no one gets Christmas gifts that is on YOUR shoulders Dave.
> And of course I didn't listen when everyone said get your second kit started as soon as the first is in the secondary. Alas I know what I am doing tonight.


 
Hah! Now that's a great story! Another conversion! I am very sorry, Jocelyn. Maybe I should give more of a warning. I'm so glad it came out good, though. I'm proud of you! You made it!

Now, make some more! I now ferment most of my original DB in my 32 gallon Brute trash can---at about 18 gallons at a time. It's really not much more work than making one batch vs. three. I just triple everything but the yeast, which only takes one packet. Making a triple batch gives me a break in between, or else I'd be making it constantly.

Great job, everyone! I love the stories, pics, and updates. Don't stop! The world needs more Dragon Blood!


----------



## beano

I know ya'll are probobly tired of me by now, so just one last pic (or two) and I'll quit. In 48 hrs., more or less, the SG has gone from 1.110 down to 1.065. Still sound like I'm cooking fried food back there. Smells and tastes good. Back of the house is filled with yeast goodness and aroma.

Beano Joe


----------



## MrsJones

beano said:


> I know ya'll are probobly tired of me by now, so just one last pic (or two) and I'll quit. In 48 hrs., more or less, the SG has gone from 1.110 down to 1.065. Still sound like I'm cooking fried food back there. Smells and tastes good. Back of the house is filled with yeast goodness and aroma.
> 
> 
> 
> Beano Joe




It's such a fun fermentation!


----------



## knifemaker

Watching a ferment like that is like staring into a campfire, I just love it! Dale.


----------



## bkisel

Fifth batch was started yesterday. Pitched yeast this AM at about 10:45. Just up from the basement and at 7:15PM the batch is starting to cook. 

A bit of indecision as the temp, using a brew belt, is at 78F and trying to decide whether to keep the belt on tonight or unplug the belt and cover the bucket with towels and let the fermentation determine the temp. Basement is at about 65F.


----------



## cdevrard

Yeah, I added the super kleer just prior to going into the secondary. I fermented dry in the bucket, racked off gross lees, degassed and added the clearing agent. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do? 

CE 



bkisel said:


> Congrats. Nice clear pics.
> 
> You used clearing agent in secondary?


----------



## Ctmaro

So I've been reading through pages of Dave's Dragon's Blood, and haven't found a straight raspberry version. I am thinking about it, but am worried about the acid in raspberries. I'm not sure how much lemon to start with. It will be a little spendy, but well worth the $6/ bottle price.


----------



## bkisel

cdevrard said:


> Yeah, I added the super kleer just prior to going into the secondary. I fermented dry in the bucket, racked off gross lees, degassed and added the clearing agent. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do?
> 
> CE



Yes, that is what you're supposed to do and that is what I also do. I see now that our understanding of "secondary" is different. With regards to the DB recipe I understand secondary as the fermentation taking place between when the fruit is removed at SG 1.000 and the wine goes dry at a SG lower than the 1.000. What you describe next is, to my understanding, not secondary but the start of another phase(s) i.e stabilizing, degassing and clearing.


----------



## MrsJones

What do you think of my draft dragon Blood label?


----------



## bkisel

I like it a lot. Being picky... I would round the ABV to the nearest whole number.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I agree with Bill about rounding your ABV. I do take it out one decimal point on beer but my wines I round to the nearest whole number. But hey, it's your label...you get to do what you want


----------



## MrsJones

Thank you both for the suggestions!


----------



## calvin

Personally I round to the .5. Say 12.5 or 10.5. But I almost completely gave up on labels. Now it's a piece of masking tape. Time is precious.


----------



## MrsJones

calvin said:


> Personally I round to the .5. Say 12.5 or 10.5. But I almost completely gave up on labels. Now it's a piece of masking tape. Time is precious.




Thanks for the tip! I just want to label a dozen or so as gifts  I don't think I'll get into labeling everything either.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

Love the label! That purple dragon is adorable! Did you draw it?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I enjoy the labeling process almost as much as making the wine. Designing the label gives me the opportunity to be creative and, this may sound silly, but I feel like I get to know the "character" of my wine in the process of finding just the right picture and putting it all together. It can be labor intensive and gluing on the labels can be tedious but I just feel that a wine as lovely as a Dragon Blood variety looks (that beautiful color and clarity!) needs a presentation as special as it is. A display of bottles, all labeled and capsuled, brings me a sense of pride and a lot of happiness...topped only by opening a bottle, pouring a glass, and taking a sip...lol.


----------



## bkisel

Labeling the bottles that are going to be gifted is extra work and expense but it does bring me and more importantly, most often, those receiving the bottle a bit of extra joy. I'll often make a "custom" label that relates or speaks to the person to whom I'm giving the wine bottle gift.

Here is a label made for a niece's son. He was discharged from the Air Force and wound up starting a career as an electrician, in Texas. Jordan was back in Connecticut for a visit with family and friends and a bottle of DB with this label was presented to him. He was thrilled with having been given this very special bottle of DB.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> Labeling the bottles that are going to be gifted is extra work and expense but it does bring me and more importantly, most often, those receiving the bottle a bit of extra joy. I'll often make a "custom" label that relates or speaks to the person to whom I'm giving the wine bottle gift.
> 
> Here is a label made for a niece's son. He was discharged from the Air Force and wound up starting a career as an electrician, in Texas. Jordan was back in Connecticut for a visit with family and friends and a bottle of DB with this label was presented to him. He was thrilled with having been given this very special bottle of DB.



That is awesome, Bill! I love that idea


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## barbiek

presentation is everything! A finished bottle is beautiful and inviting.


----------



## funjoh

My first batch of DB is nearing completion. I used a mix of lemon and pineapple juice and the pineapple flavor comes through nicely. Last night I back sweetened with 2 cans of raspberry/white grape 100% concentrate and 2 can of white grape 100% concentrate. This brought the SG to 1.002 (we normally drink dry wine). Now...I have to work on the clearing before I bottle. I originally added the pectin enzyme and then sparkolloid. Later I added more pectin enzyme. Now I plan to add superkleer. Getting there....


----------



## bkisel

funjoh said:


> My first batch of DB is nearing completion. I used a mix of lemon and pineapple juice and the pineapple flavor comes through nicely. Last night I back sweetened with 2 cans of raspberry/white grape 100% concentrate and 2 can of white grape 100% concentrate. This brought the SG to 1.002 (we normally drink dry wine). Now...I have to work on the clearing before I bottle. I originally added the pectin enzyme and then sparkolloid. Later I added more pectin enzyme. Now I plan to add superkleer. Getting there....



That sounds like a very tasty DB variation.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I just opened my first bottle of the Christmas Wine...aka fig and berry spiced Dragon Blood...and all I can say is holy cow, I LOVE this version!!! I used star anise instead of the licorice root it called for and just enough of the aroma and taste of it come through to make this wine truly unique and totally awesome.


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I just opened my first bottle of the Christmas Wine...aka fig and berry spiced Dragon Blood...and all I can say is holy cow, I LOVE this version!!! I used star anise instead of the licorice root it called for and just enough of the aroma and taste of it come through to make this wine truly unique and totally awesome.



Where can I find the recipe for this DB version/variation?

Thanks...


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> Where can I find the recipe for this DB version/variation?
> 
> Thanks...



In was in the "Dragon Blood in 15 days" thread, page 84...

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/dragon-blood-15-days-31996/index84.html

I didn't follow the recipe exactly as I used what I had on hand for fruit and concentrate, could only find dried figs, and as mentioned before, used star anise instead of licorice, but it is fine, fine, fine.


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> In was in the "Dragon Blood in 15 days" thread, page 84...
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/dragon-blood-15-days-31996/index84.html
> 
> I didn't follow the recipe exactly as I used what I had on hand for fruit and concentrate, could only find dried figs, and as mentioned before, used star anise instead of licorice, but it is fine, fine, fine.



Great! Thank you so much.


----------



## dangerdave

Ctmaro said:


> So I've been reading through pages of Dave's Dragon's Blood, and haven't found a straight raspberry version. I am thinking about it, but am worried about the acid in raspberries. I'm not sure how much lemon to start with. It will be a little spendy, but well worth the $6/ bottle price.


 
Yes, I have made a raspberry version before. I make one batch each years around Halloween. There's a vampire on the label. I make it exactly like the standard DB, with all raspberries. I also add some raspberry extract at the end for extra flavor. My wife loves it!


----------



## maurtis

I was wondering where that post went... A couple days ago I posted a question about adding DME and it never showed up, so I figured it was an error with the posting. Turns out I posted it to the "15 day" thread, d'oh!

Here was my question:

There is another thread on the forums about using dried malt extract (DME) in wines. Has anyone tried adding DME to a batch of DB? If you are using light or extra light DME it should not impart that much flavor and add body.

Of course, if bananas do the same thing they are definitely cheaper.


----------



## gaboy

DangerDave, Is your recipe for the Peach Mango that you have pictured in your LAB available anywhere? GaBoy


----------



## gaboy

dangerdave said:


> Hah! Now that's a great story! Another conversion! I am very sorry, Jocelyn. Maybe I should give more of a warning. I'm so glad it came out good, though. I'm proud of you! You made it!
> 
> Now, make some more! I now ferment most of my original DB in my 32 gallon Brute trash can---at about 18 gallons at a time. It's really not much more work than making one batch vs. three. I just triple everything but the yeast, which only takes one packet. Making a triple batch gives me a break in between, or else I'd be making it constantly.
> 
> Great job, everyone! I love the stories, pics, and updates. Don't stop! The world needs more Dragon Blood!


DangerDave, Is your recipe for the gorgeous Peach Mango that you have pictured in your LAB available anywhere?
GaBoy


----------



## dangerdave

Wow, that one was some time ago, gaboy! Thanks for looking through the Lab thread. I need to do an update soon. I'll try to dig that out of my old log, but you've caught me at a bag time. I'm at work, and my notes are at home. I've got family over this weekend for early TG, because I'm off adventuring next week (until next weekend).

I hope you don't mind being patient.


----------



## geek

I also want to see that peach mango combo to see what you did....mine still hazy after another addition of pectic enzyme....


----------



## gaboy

dangerdave said:


> Wow, that one was some time ago, gaboy! Thanks for looking through the Lab thread. I need to do an update soon. I'll try to dig that out of my old log, but you've caught me at a bag time. I'm at work, and my notes are at home. I've got family over this weekend for early TG, because I'm off adventuring next week (until next weekend).
> 
> I hope you don't mind being patient.



I don't mind waiting AT ALL for that BEAUTIFUL wine!!! THANKS!


----------



## bkisel

The Lemon Peach DB variation I bottled awhile back must have improved over the last month or so. What my wife just liked back then she now "loves" based on the glass she poured and drank tonight. Janet said it has improved with more of a peach smell and taste coming through.

I know that DB and many of its variations are good early drinkers but do they tend to have a life cycle? Meaning, they tend to improve over the course of so meany months, then reach a peak, then start to decline in taste?


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, Bill, they do. And it seems it depends on the fruit. But it's still a matter of personal taste. I don't like my original older than six months or so. I think the flavor drops off. Some people disagree with that assessment. Some people like their wines young---like me---even their reds. A young (one year or less) red has a nice bite that I personally enjoy. I like my whites crisp and tart, so they get drank early as well. That's probably the impetus for the DB recipe: the fact that I enjoy young wines.

It's not a matter of right or wrong, good or bad. It's just what you _like_. And you really just have to try and see what it is you like and how to make it. That's what makes this hobby so engrossing. Learning what you and yours enjoy, how to make it, and when to drink it.

The best part is that making wine involves drinking a lot of wine!


----------



## gaboy

Medic8106 said:


> A picture of beauty... 16 more bottles of dragon blood added to the supply. Back sweetened to 1.015. Yep, we like it sweet. Next time i want to attempt an addition of chocolate flavor. Tastes great!



Nathan, Are those regular corks, they look so white, very striking look!! GaBoy


----------



## bkisel

dangerdave said:


> Yes, Bill, they do. And it seems it depends on the fruit. But it's still a matter of personal taste. I don't like my original older than six months or so. I think the flavor drops off. Some people disagree with that assessment. Some people like their wines young---like me---even their reds. A young (one year or less) red has a nice bite that I personally enjoy. I like my whites crisp and tart, so they get drank early as well. That's probably the impetus for the DB recipe: the fact that I enjoy young wines.
> 
> It's not a matter of right or wrong, good or bad. It's just what you _like_. And you really just have to try and see what it is you like and how to make it. That's what makes this hobby so engrossing. Learning what you and yours enjoy, how to make it, and when to drink it.
> 
> The best part is that making wine involves drinking a lot of wine!



Problem (or is it a problem?) Dave is that I've yet to make a batch of kit or DB wine that I haven't at least liked. And most I've more than just liked. I keep slowly branching out but have yet to produce a real dud. [Please understand that I've met with many failures in other hobbies and other areas of my life. But so far not in wine making.]


----------



## dangerdave

Me, too, Bill. Well, except for that Welch's incident.

Even thought the very first batch of DB came out great, I tried many different methods and varieties over the years. They've all been "good", but some I have liked better. That gave me the "Current Perfected Version" which I make for me and my wife. I also have half a dozen kits I make on a regular basis, for which I have my own list of tweaks, to get them just the way we like them. When you _know_ what to do right, it's just not as scary any more. When you become confident---as you are---in your wine making, the world is your fermenter (so to speak).

They say you learn by making mistakes. I learned by not making the mistakes others have made. That's where a forum like this comes in very handy. So many wonderful folks telling us what _not_ to do. Saves us a lot of time and money, and I appreciate that very much. We can make good wine because so many have gone before us.


----------



## cdevrard

Hey All, I SUCK at graphic design but I wanted to use labels for the first time on my first batch of DB. I have a friend who is awesome at graphic design. I sent her a picture of a dragon I liked (found it on google) along with a basic idea and this is what she sent back. So cool! Which do you all like the best? 

Thanks, 

CE


----------



## calvin

Those are really cool labels. They all look great. Personally I would count out the 2 with the white background. The others are all really similar and you could go with any of them.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I like the background in the very first picture (the one that looks "cracked") but the fonts and placement of the date and ABV from the picture just underneath it....just my 2 cents.


----------



## rslayback

I may have just screwed up my first batch of DB, I had no yeast nutrient on hand and it 45 miles one way to the brew store! So I went ahead and proceeded without it, will this be a problem? Can I replace it with something else, or be added at a later date? You help would be much appreciated, as this is my first fruit wine.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I need some help with my Concord Grape DB! I have had trouble getting it to clear since the beginning, so have added additional tannins and pectic enzyme. When it still didn't clear, I re-dosed with SuperKleer. After that, I could finally see the beam of a flashlight through it, but there was still a kind of haze that I could detect in the neck of the carboy (it's so dark that it is hard to see what exactly is going on though). So last night, I kind of gave it a swirl, thinking that maybe stuff was just clinging to the sides. Now this morning, I have a bit of foam at the top and if I touch the carboy, you can actually see stuff falling from the foam, per the picture here. I can still see the flash light beam but not as well as yesterday, especially towards the bottom. There are some "bubbles" or particles rising to the top...could I be seeing a malolactic fermentation?

A little bit more information, when I racked it off the primary ferment, I degassed, sorbated and added potassium metabisulfite. I then backsweetened before adding any clearing agent...the first time that I didn't clear first and then backsweeten. This was back on the 7th of the month. 

Thanks for any information, ideas and suggestions you can offer!


----------



## Ctmaro

dangerdave said:


> Yes, I have made a raspberry version before. I make one batch each years around Halloween. There's a vampire on the label. I make it exactly like the standard DB, with all raspberries. I also add some raspberry extract at the end for extra flavor. My wife loves it!



Thank you sooooo much! I love your versions of wine, and make them between other types needing much more time to age. I currently have a batch going with Festival Mix (papaya, mango, pineapple, & strawberry) that I found at Costco.

I found a source for 10# frozen raspberries (Cash & Carry) here in Portland, OR. area, and I wanted to try straight raspberry next time.

Mark


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

rslayback said:


> I may have just screwed up my first batch of DB, I had no yeast nutrient on hand and it 45 miles one way to the brew store! So I went ahead and proceeded without it, will this be a problem? Can I replace it with something else, or be added at a later date? You help would be much appreciated, as this is my first fruit wine.



I noticed a huge difference in how fast the ferment went when I inadvertently added yeast energizer as opposed to yeast nutrient, so I don't know that you necessarily screwed it up, but I think you will see an effect. You could added it later, but I wouldn't wait too long. Some people use raisins for yeast "food" so that's an option. I'm fairly new at all of this too though, so it's just my opinion!


----------



## bkisel

With regards to the labels... I'd pick number one for background and number 2 for bleeding script. Don't at all care for the white 
background labels.

If I could only pick one as is it would be number.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

The "crackled" background appeals to me most, as does the black and red lettering on the label in the upper right quadrant in the second group of labels. Would you consider combining the two? My 2 cents, FWIW.


----------



## gaboy

Has anyone added food coloring to the final product? Will it create a problem? ( New to this!) GaBoy


----------



## cintipam

rslayback, about yeast nutrient. I have never tried this, but had saved this post from quite a while back. OP was talking about a substitute for yeast nutrient if in a situation like yours.

1/2 cup grape nuts..1 cup water..cook in nuker for 2 minutes, let cool...
works like a charm.
Also helpful addition is two whole bananas cut up, riper the better.
add the above in a muslin bag are etc.

If you try this please let us all know if you had any problems and if it seemed to help.

Pam in cinti


----------



## gaboy

Another question, Can 5 Gal. water cooler bottles be used as carboys? GaBoy


----------



## Ctmaro

I use plastic all the time when doing quick ones like Skeeter P and dragons blood, but I wouldn't be using it for aging.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## bkisel

gaboy said:


> Another question, Can 5 Gal. water cooler bottles be used as carboys? GaBoy



I do aging up to 3 months in my Better Bottle and Bubbler carboys with no ill affects. Question I would have is whether or not water cooler bottles have a food grade rating.


----------



## Jocelyn

WHY DID THIS HAPPEN! 
My beautiful delicious dragons blood was crystal clear for about a month before I bottled. 1 week in there and there is sediment forming? What did I do wrong? Could it be the corks? Ugh I am so upset that was supposed to be my christmas gift wine. And now it looks gross.


----------



## MrsJones

Jocelyn said:


> WHY DID THIS HAPPEN!
> 
> My beautiful delicious dragons blood was crystal clear for about a month before I bottled. 1 week in there and there is sediment forming? What did I do wrong? Could it be the corks? Ugh I am so upset that was supposed to be my christmas gift wine. And now it looks gross.




We'll need some more information. Can you tell us if you followed the recipe exactly or made any modifications? Had you fully degassed?


----------



## Medic8106

gaboy said:


> Nathan, Are those regular corks, they look so white, very striking look!! GaBoy



Yes they are regular corks. Must just be the lighting!


----------



## Jocelyn

MrsJones said:


> We'll need some more information. Can you tell us if you followed the recipe exactly or made any modifications? Had you fully degassed?



It was the degassing I followed the recipe and last night I opened a bottle and it tickles the tongue a bit. Still tastes good though just can't be gifted like I had intended


----------



## barryjo

bkisel said:


> I do aging up to 3 months in my Better Bottle and Bubbler carboys with no ill affects. Question I would have is whether or not water cooler bottles have a food grade rating.


 
I Googled the term "food grade plastic". It appears either grade 1 or grade 2 is OK. The grade number is embossed on the bottom usually. Do NOT use the flimsy clear bottles except under extreme conditions. They usually have lots of indentations for strength and are real nasty to clean. IMHO. 
Most of my secondaries are "repurposed" Culligan bottles.


----------



## reefman

Jocelyn said:


> It was the degassing I followed the recipe and last night I opened a bottle and it tickles the tongue a bit. Still tastes good though just can't be gifted like I had intended


Jocelyn,
It might be re-fermentation as well. Especially if you have sediment.


----------



## gaboy

barryjo said:


> I Googled the term "food grade plastic". It appears either grade 1 or grade 2 is OK. The grade number is embossed on the bottom usually. Do NOT use the flimsy clear bottles except under extreme conditions. They usually have lots of indentations for strength and are real nasty to clean. IMHO.
> Most of my secondaries are "repurposed" Culligan bottles.



Barryjo, THANKS for the info. The bottles you have are the ones I'm talking about. GaBoy


----------



## maurtis

Jocelyn said:


> WHY DID THIS HAPPEN!
> My beautiful delicious dragons blood was crystal clear for about a month before I bottled. 1 week in there and there is sediment forming? What did I do wrong? Could it be the corks? Ugh I am so upset that was supposed to be my christmas gift wine. And now it looks gross.



Did you remember to sorbate going into the secondary? As reefman mentioned, I wonder if you kicked off fermentation again, assuming you backsweetened before bottling. When you popped the cork on the bottle, did it seem pressurized at all?

If it tasted fine (other than being "prickly") I would not think it is an infection. I would imagine extra CO2 from fermentation in the bottle could give the wine a prickly feeling.


----------



## Jocelyn

maurtis said:


> Did you remember to sorbate going into the secondary? As reefman mentioned, I wonder if you kicked off fermentation again, assuming you backsweetened before bottling. When you popped the cork on the bottle, did it seem pressurized at all?
> 
> If it tasted fine (other than being "prickly") I would not think it is an infection. I would imagine extra CO2 from fermentation in the bottle could give the wine a prickly feeling.



Yup I remembered the sorbate.


----------



## wineforfun

Did you use Sparklloid?
If so, I noticed I have bottled different wines that looked crystal clear. A month later I could see this whispy stuff floating around.

SuperKleer tends to compact the lees much better, eliiminating a lot of this.


----------



## beano

beano said:


> This is just another variation of the most famous Danger Daves Dragon Blood. I hope it comes out well, but as always, I'm sure it will. It is for 6 gallons.
> 
> This recipe contains:
> 
> 4 lbs. frozen quadberry mix (strawberrys, blueberrys, red raspberrys and blackberrys)
> 1.5 lbs. fresh cranberrys, frozen then thawed.
> 32 oz. Welches concord grape jelly
> 1 big banana, frozen then thawed, sliced thin.
> 8 oz. red raisins
> 32 oz. lemon juice concentrate
> Invert sugar to SG of 1.110 (my taste)
> 
> Other than the fruit ingredients, I followed the standard Dragon Blood recipe as far as the chemical additions go with the exception of an extra 1/2 tsp peptic enzyme because of the jelly. The jelly seems to add alot more flavor to the DB. I get it when its on sale at the Dollar General @ $2.00 a quart.
> Just thought I'd share and I will update in a day or two on the progress of this ferminte.
> I just pitched my yeast a few minites before tacking this pic. It looks good and has a great taste. We'll see what happens, yup!!
> 
> Beano Joe




My DB is now at an SG of 1.005. Down from an original SG of 1.110. I like to stop it around this point so I don't have to back sweeten.
After tasting it was good going down but left a vegital or green kind of after taste in my mouth. Not real pronounced, but there none the less.

I am wondering if the fresh, then frozen cranberrys are at fault? Some not being ripe enough I'm thinking. Not a problem I've encountered before with fresh frozen fruits. Any thoughts on this and maybe a way to remove this taste. It does not really taste bad, just bothersome to me. Less than perfect, ya know.


----------



## gaboy

beano said:


> My DB is now at an SG of 1.005. Down from an original SG of 1.110. I like to stop it around this point so I don't have to back sweeten.
> After tasting it was good going down but left a vegital or green kind of after taste in my mouth. Not real pronounced, but there none the less.
> 
> I am wondering if the fresh, then frozen cranberrys are at fault? Some not being ripe enough I'm thinking. Not a problem I've encountered before with fresh frozen fruits. Any thoughts on this and maybe a way to remove this taste. It does not really taste bad, just bothersome to me. Less than perfect, ya know.



Beano, Do you use the WHOLE banana, with skin, or take the skin off and use only the edible part? GaBoy


----------



## beano

gaboy said:


> Beano, Do you use the WHOLE banana, with skin, or take the skin off and use only the edible part? GaBoy



Yes, the whole banana, skin included. Frozen then sliced thin. I always add them this way.
The banana usually just disappears. Like I said, never a problem before. Thats why I'm thinking unripe cranberrys. I did, last evening add some light toasted white american oak to it . First time i've used oak. I read on one of the posts here that the oak would absorb vegital and other off tastes. I tasted this evening and didn't taste the offending aftertaste, but the taste is a newer, better flavor. Almost orangey if you will. Gonna let this set a couple of weeks and see what happens.

Beano Joe


----------



## gaboy

beano said:


> Yes, the whole banana, skin included. Frozen then sliced thin. I always add them this way.
> The banana usually just disappears. Like I said, never a problem before. Thats why I'm thinking unripe cranberrys. I did, last evening add some light toasted white american oak to it . First time i've used oak. I read on one of the posts here that the oak would absorb vegital and other off tastes. I tasted this evening and didn't taste the offending aftertaste, but the taste is a newer, better flavor. Almost orangey if you will. Gonna let this set a couple of weeks and see what happens.
> 
> Beano Joe



Thanks for the reply Beano! How much oak did you add, if I may ask? GaBoy


----------



## jamesjr

I just started my first batch of db and I used alot of frozen berries and I also added a little container of fresh mixed berries and forgot to use campden..... I froze all berries first am I at a big risk of contamination? I also used a new white pantyhose lol am I just making rookie mistakes or do u think it will turn out fine be honest thanks


----------



## calvin

You should be ok. Did you sanitize the pantyhose?


----------



## jamesjr

Yea and I soaked it in some water to make sure no color leaks out. This is also my first time using a bucket instead of a carboy. I sanitized everything tho.


----------



## beano

gaboy said:


> Thanks for the reply Beano! How much oak did you add, if I may ask? GaBoy



I used about 5oz in five gallons. Being my first time useing any oak I wanted to go easy and see what it does to the wine.

Beano Joe


----------



## gaboy

Just starting out, finding very informative info on this forum!! What is the MINIMUN headspace you can get by with, the foaming of fermentation, in my fermentation bucket? Want to be CLOSE to top but NOT runover.. Thanks!!!! GaBoy


----------



## reefman

Well, that's a loaded question. My only batch of DB produced about an inch of foam according to my notes. (I'm more of a skeeter pee fan myself)
The best answer is that it varies. I've had batches with literally no foam, and others that had a good three inches of foam. It depends on the wine type. and also the yeast type.
Other things can affect foam production as well, such as additives and fermentation temperature.
My best answer would be to leave about 3 to 4 inches of head space in your primary fermentation bucket. You will learn with time which combinations produce the most foam.


----------



## sour_grapes

Also, there is a product called FermCap that greatly reduces foaming. It is a food-safe surfactant, so it does not allow the bubbles to form.


----------



## auggydoggy502

I have a 1 gallon batch and a 7 gallon batch of db going. The one gallon batch is at the back sweetened stage and didnt have as much fruity taste as i would like so i put 1lb of triple berry fruit in the juicer and pored it in. Lots of fine particulates are in there and have settled to the bottom but arnt very compact. Should i ad sparkeloid to it agian? Should i go this same route with the 7 gallon batch when the time comes?


----------



## Rosa321

HELLO AGAIN! 

I just stopped in to check out what everyone has been up to. I have been super busy teaching, working on my doctorate, and of course MAKING WINE!!! 
I had a monumental blueberry harvest and I'm reaping the benefits. I think I'm going to start a mango version soon. 
Anyway.....I just wanted to say hello, happy wine making, and hopefully I'll find some time during winter break to hang out here a bit more


----------



## Rosa321

auggydoggy502 said:


> I have a 1 gallon batch and a 7 gallon batch of db going. The one gallon batch is at the back sweetened stage and didnt have as much fruity taste as i would like so i put 1lb of triple berry fruit in the juicer and pored it in. Lots of fine particulates are in there and have settled to the bottom but arnt very compact. Should i ad sparkeloid to it agian? Should i go this same route with the 7 gallon batch when the time comes?



It will eventually clear, no matter what size batch. My advice (and the hardest part of this whole process) is to be patient! 
Racking the wine will help. But basically, go out to dinner, catch a movie, put the carboy somewhere that you won't look at it every day and FORGET ABOUT IT!  It will clear in time. Rushing it will result in cloudy wine in the bottle.


----------



## jumby

30 bottles of DangerDave's Dragon Blood bottled, labeled and in the cellar. I used a Strawberry, raspberry, blackberry mix. Hope you don't mind Dave but I changed the name of mine to "Bella Rossore". Translated from Italian that means "Beautiful Blush".


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Well, my Concord Grape is FINALLY cleared and in the bottle. I posted a while back that it was not clearing even after some extra tannins and pectic enzyme and that it had developed some weird white foam so I did end up adding some potassium metabisulfite and re-dosing with SuperKleer. All seems well now and it looks lovely in the bottle! Oh and it tastes lovely as well!


----------



## wineforfun

Val,
What did you use for your concord, grapes? or Welch's concentrate?
Also, did you follow the DB recipe or make your own as you went?


----------



## tanddc

I keep seeing a reference to "original recipe" pop up in here but I can't seem to find a "new recipe". 

Can anyone enlighten me on how much lemon juice to use? 

We are bottling our first batch Saturday and getting ready to start the next one and we want to cut back on some of the acidic taste. We are also going to use 10 Lbs. of frozen instead of 6. 

Tim


----------



## calvin

It is the very first post on this thread. Original recipe refers to Dave's original dragon blood recipe. Not following the original recipe would refer to a tweak or different fruit and so on. I'm sure hundreds of variations have been tried.


----------



## tanddc

I have the "original" recipe. I thought that perhaps there was a "new" recipe that most were using. The main question I have is on the amount of lemon juice to use


----------



## RaymondoChin

Recipe calls for 48oz and you can use any amount below that you want down to none at all. My taste is for 24 oz. I have used that amount in the last two six gallon batches we have made. Straight blackberry and concord grape.
Mark


----------



## agsimon

wineforfun said:


> Did you use Sparklloid?
> If so, I noticed I have bottled different wines that looked crystal clear. A month later I could see this whispy stuff floating around.
> 
> SuperKleer tends to compact the lees much better, eliiminating a lot of this.



I've noticed this too. I've used Sparkolloid on all my batches except a small handful that I tried SuperKleer on. All the SuperKleer wines came out crystal clear in the bottle after a few months, but about 50% of my Sparkolloid wines have a tiny bit of sediment. This could also be attributed to me being over zealous with my new hobby and not giving things enough time to settle completely out before bottling.


----------



## wineforfun

tanddc said:


> I have the "original" recipe. I thought that perhaps there was a "new" recipe that most were using. The main question I have is on the amount of lemon juice to use



The "very" original recipe called for 96oz. lemon juice. Due to alot of people commenting how acidic it was, Dave altered the reciped to 48oz. 

Give this 2-3 months in the bottle and the acid from the lemon juice really mellows and the fruit flavors start pushing forward.


----------



## jumby

How long after bottling has everyone been waiting before popping the corks? Mine was a lil to raw at bottling for my taste.


----------



## willie

jumby said:


> How long after bottling has everyone been waiting before popping the corks? Mine was a lil to raw at bottling for my taste.



We bottle within 2 months some 3 months cause we don't need it right away. But then we are drinking the heck out of it till it's gone. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

jumby said:


> How long after bottling has everyone been waiting before popping the corks? Mine was a lil to raw at bottling for my taste.



I can drink it right away personally but even within 3 weeks the taste smooths out quite a bit.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

wineforfun said:


> Val,
> What did you use for your concord, grapes? or Welch's concentrate?
> Also, did you follow the DB recipe or make your own as you went?



I used concord grapes...I think that's why it gave me so much trouble clearing. I went by Dave's notes for the recipe which he posted for me on page 233 of this thread (although I think I only had about 16 pounds of fruit).


----------



## Ctmaro

jumby said:


> 30 bottles of DangerDave's Dragon Blood bottled, labeled and in the cellar. I used a Strawberry, raspberry, blackberry mix. Hope you don't mind Dave but I changed the name of mine to "Bella Rossore". Translated from Italian that means "Beautiful Blush".



Just put up 15 - 1 Liter + 4 750 ml bottles: Strawberry, Blackberry, and Blueberry. Tastes great! More Dragon's Blood!


----------



## maurtis

Mine usually clears and is ready to bottle within 15 days, but is definitely still a little rough. Usually about a month after bottling it is nice and tasty. So for mine, 1.5 months from the beginning of fermentation is when I start to drink and gift it. Mine have never gone more than 3 months since it gets gifted or consumed pretty quickly.


----------



## wineforfun

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I used concord grapes...I think that's why it gave me so much trouble clearing. I went by Dave's notes for the recipe which he posted for me on page 233 of this thread (although I think I only had about 16 pounds of fruit).



I gotcha, thanks. I have made almost everyone one of Dave's variations and a few of my own, but had never seen a concord one.


----------



## jamesjr

Im making my first batch of db and took a little taste and I think I found my new favorite wine!


----------



## dangerdave

Great buzz here on the DB thread! You gus/gals are awesome!

I'm back from my vacation, so bottling some DB myself. My newset version called Dragon Lord---strawberry/mango/blueberry/cherry---is sitting there looking at me. Another experiment in flavor combinations. I'll back sweeten and taste it this week.

Trying to get caught up on all these posts!


----------



## Ctmaro

dangerdave said:


> Great buzz here on the DB thread! You gus/gals are awesome!
> 
> I'm back from my vacation, so bottling some DB myself. My newset version called Dragon Lord---strawberry/mango/blueberry/cherry---is sitting there looking at me. Another experiment in flavor combinations. I'll back sweeten and taste it this week.
> 
> Trying to get caught up on all these posts!



Hope you had a great vacation Dave!

I am just starting straight Raspberry DB today. Mixed up the base yesterday evening, added the berries this morning (had to get them defrosted), and will pitch the yeast tonight.

I am following your original recipe, as you suggested, and will tame the tartness when back sweetening.

Thank you for feedback,

Mark

Currently making:

Festival DB (strawberry, mango, papaya, pineapple)
Lemon Lime SP
Apple wine
Wild Blackberry wine
Blueberry wine
Pineapple wine
Peach wine
Starting Strawberry wine today


----------



## calvin

If you haven't started your strawberry wine yet I would highly recommend Dave's sweet strawberry tart. It is delicious with lots of strawberry flavor.


----------



## SwampDog35

Anyone wanna chime in let me know if I'm on track or not? This is my DB going on its second week after being in the secondary. Suggestions? It appears not to be clearing very well.


----------



## Medic8106

calvin said:


> If you haven't started your strawberry wine yet I would highly recommend Dave's sweet strawberry tart. It is delicious with lots of strawberry flavor.



Everyone keeps mentioning this sweet strawberry tart but I am unable to find the recipe. Can anyone help me out? It's time to start another batch soon!


----------



## calvin

I've been out of town celebrating my birthday, so I've was incommunicado at the finish of the contest.



Thank you all very much! My wife (Weeping Willow Wines, Manager of Quality Control) said it was a winner. The SST was one of the first few variations I made from the Dragon Blood Recipe. Johnna has been begging me for years to make another. Everyone knows I hate working with strawberries, and I was expecting to be edged out by someone. You are all very good wine makers, and I appreciate you all very much. What a great competition!



Now for the recipe...<drum roll>



<font color="red">Sweet Strawberry Tart

5/31/14 - To a 7 gallon fermenter, I added...20 cups of granulater sugar, 1 cup medium toasted French oak, 3 tsp yeast nutrient, 1 tsp yeast energizer, 3 tsp pectic enzyme, 1 tsp wine tannin, 96oz of Real Lemon Juice, and water up to 5 gallons. Stirred vigorously until all was dissolved and well mixed. Attached brew belt for warmth. SG = 1.085. Added 15 lbs of thawed frozen strawberries in two mesh bags. Total volume came out a little over 6 gallons. Squeezed and stirred every day per DB recipe. Notes: I used more lemon juice than I normally do in my DB recipe because I wanted the final product to be nice and tart.



6/1/14 - Pitched 71B-1122 yeast.



6/7/14 - SG = 0.992. Added 1/4 tsp sulphite, 3 tsp sorbate, and 96oz ("Big Bucket") Strawberry Daiquiri Mix. Topped up with about 750ml original Dragon Blood. Added Super Klear



6/23/14 - Racked. After tasting, added 4 cups of sugar and 2oz Watkins Strawberry Extract. Added two drops of red food coloring. Note: I wanted a fuller strawberry flavor than I got with the fruit and mix, thus the added extract. I also wanted a deeper hue of pinkish-red, so added a little bit of color.



6/30/14 - Racked, filtered, and bottled, only to watch most of it disappear over 4th of July weekend.



Once again, thank you all very much! It has been a pleasure!


----------



## calvin

That was a copy and paste from one of Dave's post in the dragon blood variant contest thread. You can find the recipe there also


----------



## gaboy

As a 1st time maker, as I started today I realized I did not have any Energizer. Is it absolutely necessary, as the mix is now started? ASAP Thanks!! GaBoy


----------



## maurtis

I usually use Fermax which contains DAP as well as yeast nutrients. Some at the beginning and another tsp at the 1/2 sugar break.

I was finding that if I did not add some nutrient partway through that I was getting some sulfur smells when I rack to the secondary, telling me that I had stressed out the yeast. It would dissipate by the time I racked to the bottling bucket, but I find that if I add some Fermax at the 1/2 sugar break that I was not getting the sulfur smell.

Others can chime in, but I would think that you would be fine to drop some in when you get a chance to grab some from your LHBS or from online. You may just have fermentation take a little longer to take off otherwise?


----------



## go_mustangs

*stabilized / still fermenting*

Thanks to all for this great wine (and it's variations) and this great thread. I am on my 5th batch. This one is half the lemon and all blueberry. This morning I did everything like normal...once the time was right I racked, stabilized, stopper/airlock...but the strange thing is that it's still bubbling the airlock....should I be alarmed? Any action I should take?

Thanks for your help


----------



## Ctmaro

calvin said:


> If you haven't started your strawberry wine yet I would highly recommend Dave's sweet strawberry tart. It is delicious with lots of strawberry flavor.




I thought about doing a strawberry DB, but I needed to get another dry strawberry going so I don't run out later. It takes 5 to 6 months to be drinkable.

Do you use the regular DB recipe? Just wanted to know for future DB.

Mark


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


----------



## auggydoggy502

Just bottled a 1 gallon batch. Its a little tart. I didnt use as much lemon in my 6 gallon batch. Will this mellow out a little over time? I started it at the end of sept. Seems that i read that about 3 months and it mellows down amd the fruit flavors come out is that right? Thanks


----------



## calvin

Ctmaro said:


> I thought about doing a strawberry DB, but I needed to get another dry strawberry going so I don't run out later. It takes 5 to 6 months to be drinkable.
> 
> Do you use the regular DB recipe? Just wanted to know for future DB.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Wine Making




Look back a few posts. I posted the recipe. It's Dave's winning recipe from the dragon blood variant contest


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

go_mustangs said:


> Thanks to all for this great wine (and it's variations) and this great thread. I am on my 5th batch. This one is half the lemon and all blueberry. This morning I did everything like normal...once the time was right I racked, stabilized, stopper/airlock...but the strange thing is that it's still bubbling the airlock....should I be alarmed? Any action I should take?
> 
> Thanks for your help



Had it fermented dry before you racked and stabilized? Did you use both sorbate and potassium metabisulfite? How long has it been since you treated and racked?

With one of my initial batches, I used one Campden tablet thinking it was the same as 1/4 tsp of potassium metabisulfite and I had continued/renewed bubbling...as soon as I added the right dose, that stopped almost immediately. Also, I recently had a batch that was taking a long time to clear and was starting to look odd and getting some bubbles so I re-dosed with sulfites and that took care of it pronto.


----------



## willie

auggydoggy502 said:


> Just bottled a 1 gallon batch. Its a little tart. I didnt use as much lemon in my 6 gallon batch. Will this mellow out a little over time? I started it at the end of sept. Seems that i read that about 3 months and it mellows down amd the fruit flavors come out is that right? Thanks



Wow those are some pretty cool bottles you got there.
I have been letting my DB bulk age for a few extra weeks after it clears and gets filtered. So far it seems to be working out just fine that way as for as it tasting good to us. Just experiment and have fun with it. 

Will


----------



## willie

Well I have an update on the Blue Blood batch we bottled last week. Before we bottle we did a taste test to see what we think of it. It had been 90 days sense I started the fermenter. My wife and I both thought it was good but was missing something as far as a blueberry taste goes. So it dawned on me that I had stashed a bottle of blueberry extract and it seemed like a perfect moment to give it a try. So I mixed 2 oz of the stuff in the six gallon carboy and gave it a stir and that did the trick. Then we bottled. YumYum

Will


----------



## dangerdave

Excellent job, Willie! I keep a selection of extracts around for just such an occasion.


----------



## wineforfun

auggydoggy502 said:


> Just bottled a 1 gallon batch. Its a little tart. I didnt use as much lemon in my 6 gallon batch. Will this mellow out a little over time? I started it at the end of sept. Seems that i read that about 3 months and it mellows down amd the fruit flavors come out is that right? Thanks



Awesome bottles. I have 5 cases of those I received from a local winery. I hadn't seen anyone else using them.


----------



## funjoh

After two months I bottled my strawberry triple berry lemon pineapple batch. It was backsweetened with juice concentrate to 1.005. I am planning my next batch cause this will not last long! Mmmm


----------



## barbl72

Anybody every use Champagne yeast for Dragon's Blood? It's all the one wine shop had. Haven't used it yet, so was wondering if it is ok. Thanks!


----------



## wineforfun

No I haven't but I am sure it will work fine. Many others have tried different strains of yeast.


----------



## calvin

Lalvin 1118 is champaign yeast. That's what I use


----------



## GreginND

Started a 100 gal batch of blueberry dragons blood tonight. Well, I I've mixed 175 pounds of sugar and 34 liters of lemon juice with water to about 60 gal so far and will wait until the sugar dissolves. I'll add 140 pounds of blueberry purée tomorrow, top it up to 100 gal and inoculate it with 71b on Friday morning. Woohoo. Here we go.


----------



## calvin

Wow that is awesome Greg! Did you do a smaller test batch first with the same recipe and yeast. My biggest batch to date was 12 gallons and I switched up the yeast. Wish I would have stuck with 1118


----------



## sour_grapes

GreginND said:


> Started a 100 gal batch of blueberry dragons blood tonight.



My first thought was "Whoa! That is _half_ of your yearly quota -- spent on DB!?!?" 

My second thought was "Hah! Greg does not _have_ a yearly quota anymore!" Nice work!


----------



## calvin

Read this thread. I had similar results when I tried the 71b

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f86/yeast-comparison-ec-1118-vs-71b-1122-a-39619/

This is for the original recipe. Maybe a completely different outcome with blueberries.


----------



## GreginND

Thanks Calvin. I actually forgot about that thread. Appreciate the heads up. I have used EC1118 in the past with great results. I have a small batch of homemade stuff I made with 71b that isn't finished yet, so I don't have the results. I decided to do this large batch with what I know has worked. I added the blueberry tonight and decided to inoculate with EC1118 this evening. I did check the pH of the must which was lower than 3 (2.75). We'll see how acidic it is after fermentation. The must (SG 1.086) tastes great. Can't wait to get this batch fermented.


----------



## freqflyer

Where do you guys get your bottles for a hundred gallon batch?


----------



## GreginND

Well, I will order a couple of pallets of bottles this spring - maybe from Brick Packaging. There are several bottle suppliers. Whichever one is least expensive and closest to save on freight charges.


----------



## calvin

I hope you can buy them cheaper than I can. $13.95 a case @ my LHBS. The bottles cost me as much as the wine. With dragon blood anyway.


----------



## freqflyer

I wish I had a local store so i wouldnt have to pay shipping.


----------



## Thig

calvin said:


> I hope you can buy them cheaper than I can. $13.95 a case @ my LHBS. The bottles cost me as much as the wine. With dragon blood anyway.



Have you thought about pint mason jars, after all your not planning on long aging with this are you?


----------



## GreginND

Now that I am scaling up, I will be ordering bottles by the pallet. Previously I used to piggy back my smaller orders for bottles with my friend who owns a winery where he adds them to his pallet orders. Clear bordeaux bottles are around $6.50 per case typically with the shipping.


----------



## freqflyer

How many cases on a pallet?


----------



## calvin

Thig said:


> Have you thought about pint mason jars, after all your not planning on long aging with this are you?




Never crossed my mind. Probably because I don't have any. Honestly I don't think I would bottle in mason jars unless I was making something a lot more potent


----------



## GreginND

A typical pallet holds 56 cases but that can vary depending on the case size.


----------



## barryjo

Have you checked local restaurants that serve wine? I presently have about 60 cases of bottles. Nearly all from that source. They are usually glad to have you pick them up. Might cost you a bottle of wine occasionally. Also the time to clean off the labels.


----------



## jumby

barryjo said:


> Have you checked local restaurants that serve wine? I presently have about 60 cases of bottles. Nearly all from that source. They are usually glad to have you pick them up. Might cost you a bottle of wine occasionally. Also the time to clean off the labels.



I do the same. They give me all their empties and occasionally return a few full.


----------



## GreginND

Well, it's definitely fermenting. Guess I shouldn't have stirred it.


----------



## sour_grapes

GreginND said:


> Well, it's definitely fermenting. Guess I shouldn't have stirred it.



Welll, OUCH! That looks painful.  I wanted to hit "like" on your post to show my moral support, but did not want to be misinterpreted!


----------



## bkisel

Wow! I've never seen anything like that. When I first scrolled down the page and started to see the picture I thought I was going to read something about DB smoothies.


----------



## reefman

Is that the Rhubarb or Blueberry?


----------



## GreginND

blueberry

I was stirring in nutrients. I should have stirred a bit more gently.


----------



## calvin

Greg, Do you have to pay Dave royalties when you sell it?


----------



## willie

Looks like a giant smoothie.


----------



## tanddc

I did hit like on your giant smoothie but I hope you don't take it the wrong way. I only do small batches and big barrel of DB fermenting away got me excited


----------



## dangerdave

Greg and I had a discussion about it, and we have it nicely worked out. 

That is a very cool picture, though. Always learning, eh Greg?


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Ok Dave, I have read a great deal of this thread and I am ready to make my first attempt at wine from fruit your dragons blood. Although I am going to go with half triple berry and half blueberry, the fruit is thawing as we speak. All of you on here have inspired this first attempt and I thank you.


----------



## dangerdave

Awesome, HeadWatersWine! The best of luck! If you have any concerns along the way, let us know! We're here for ya!


----------



## wineforfun

GreginND said:


> Well, it's definitely fermenting. Guess I shouldn't have stirred it.
> 
> View attachment 19474



Looks like a big Icee that some kid filled too full.
Awesome pic.


----------



## Evrwhr

I'm bottling my half triple berry half blueberry tonight. Very tasty...


----------



## ou8amaus

GreginND said:


> Well, it's definitely fermenting. Guess I shouldn't have stirred it.
> 
> View attachment 19474



I love that your dedication to this site and it's inhabitants forced you to stop and take a picture rather than scramble mindlessly trying to stem the tide of pink ambrosia ! Thank you!


----------



## jamesjr

I just want to say WOW! Yall make some fine food compared to me lol im from central fl. And a common meal looks nothing like that ( I wish it did).


----------



## HeadWatersWine

dangerdave, thanks. I started it today. I put in 32ozs of lemon juice and 15ozs of lime. I did this because the berry mix I picked up had dark red cherrys and I thought some lime juice would go good with it. Will add the yeast to it tomorrow. Thanks for the great directions. I like detailed directions as I have a short term memory problem and I can just check things off as I go. One good thing since the short term memory thing I am keeping detailed notes. Which looks like a good thing in this wine making thing. Already looking forward to making some skeeter pee. LOL


----------



## bkisel

HeadWatersWine said:


> Ok Dave, I have read a great deal of this thread and I am ready to make my first attempt at wine from fruit your dragons blood. Although I am going to go with half triple berry and half blueberry, the fruit is thawing as we speak. All of you on here have inspired this first attempt and I thank you.



Good luck! Your fruit variation sounds great.

DB was my first venture past kit wines. Glad I tried it. I've made 5 batches using the recipe, four of which were pretty much follow the recipe exactly and one where I made a peach variation largely base on the DB recipe. All 5 batches have been hits with family and friends.


----------



## geek

Making a semi-double batch. About 6gal in total.
One with maybe 15lb of peaches with 2lbs of blueberry. 
Pitched D47 last night, 
*PH ~3.16. *
SG ~1.078

The other with 3lbs of strawberry and 3lbs of blueberry. 
Pitched EC-1118 last night, 
*PH ~2.92*. 
SG ~1.078

I plan on mixing them at the end of fermentation. SG ~1.060 right now.

Would you guys adjust the PH on any of the 2 at this time or leave as is?
I used about 48oz of lemon juice combined for the 2 batches.


----------



## bkisel

Hey Varis,

I notice you've got yet another new Avatar. I'm clueless as to what it is but at least it doesn't appear to be beating its head against the wall. 

BTW, I'm also clueless about PH as it relates to wine making. All I know is that the DB recipe, without going to far astray, has been very kind to me.


----------



## dangerdave

geek said:


> Would you guys adjust the PH on any of the 2 at this time or leave as is? I used about 48oz of lemon juice combined for the 2 batches.


 
My DB comes out right around pH 3, so if you mix the batches after fermentation, they should balance out nicely.

I bought a pH meter. Used it once to check my finished DB, and have yet to use it again. Taste is the real checker for me.


----------



## geek

Thanks Dave.

My previous batch using only peaches, the PH was around 3.5 but only used 32oz of lemon juice.
This time I added 48oz of lemon juice, so that makes a difference to, plus the type of fruit.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I currently have another batch of plum and triple berry going. My first batch met with lots of great reviews so that was my motivation but, dang, plums are a huge pain in the backside! 10 days after moving to the secondary and adding SuperKleer, it is still a thick mess! I will be adding some pectic enzyme and re-dosing with SuperKleer to help move things along so this isn't a cry for help, just a vent and a cautionary note for those who may be planning to add plums to any Dragon Blood batches.

Hope everyone is ready for the holidays and that your celebrations are merry and bright...and helped along with a bottle or three of awesome wine!


----------



## gaboy

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I currently have another batch of plum and triple berry going. My first batch met with lots of great reviews so that was my motivation but, dang, plums are a huge pain in the backside! 10 days after moving to the secondary and adding SuperKleer, it is still a thick mess! I will be adding some pectic enzyme and re-dosing with SuperKleer to help move things along so this isn't a cry for help, just a vent and a cautionary note for those who may be planning to add plums to any Dragon Blood batches.
> 
> Hope everyone is ready for the holidays and that your celebrations are merry and bright...and helped along with a bottle or three of awesome wine!



Val, What kind of plums did you use, fresh, frozen, puree, etc.?


----------



## Avantjour

*First batch of Dragon Blood in the bottles...*

Greetings,

I bottled my first batch of Dragon Blood. 

What a great recipe, thank you Dave.

I have another 6 gallons on it's first rack, 

and ingredients for another batch that I plan to play with.

Merry Christmas...


----------



## bkisel

Looks great!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

gaboy said:


> Val, What kind of plums did you use, fresh, frozen, puree, etc.?



They were a freestone purple skin/yellow flesh plum that I was given by a friend this fall and that have been in the freezer since.


----------



## gotbags-10

What's the most mixed berries anyone has used on a 6 gallon batch? How many pounds is too much?


----------



## calvin

I don't know if you could use too much???? Many double it


----------



## jumby

I have a batch fermenting now with about 10 lbs. of strawberries, raspberries, black berries and blue berries.


----------



## gotbags-10

Only reason I ask is that Restaurant Depot by me has a sweet deal in 5 lb bags of mixed fruit right now. I was thinking I would do 3 bags


----------



## bkisel

gotbags-10 said:


> Only reason I ask is that Restaurant Depot by me has a sweet deal in 5 lb bags of mixed fruit right now. I was thinking I would do 3 bags



Have you done a 6 pound DB? Personally, because the 6 pound recipe is liked by so many, I'd go with 10 pounds before I tried 15.


----------



## willie

gotbags-10 said:


> Only reason I ask is that Restaurant Depot by me has a sweet deal in 5 lb bags of mixed fruit right now. I was thinking I would do 3 bags



Yep I agree with, Bill. The recipe made with 9-10 lbs. of fruit seems the best to us. The 6 lb. recipe is good also if you want your wine a little lighter in color and flavor. 
The Tropical recipe I made and bottled with added 2 cans of 100% Welches frozen White grape juice has been a big hit with friends and family. 

Will


----------



## barryjo

In the future, I would suggest you put the fruit in a straining bag or knee-high nylons. I find this makes it much easier to remove the fruit. If you are using a large quantity of fruit, use 2 bags.


----------



## gotbags-10

This will be my second batch. The first one I followed the original recipe with 6 lbs of fruit and 96oz of lemon. It's too tart and not fruity enough for me at least. So I will deff go down to a 48 oz bottle and I guess I will just go with 10 lbs of fruit. However my first batch just turned a year old and it's gotten much better but don't want to wait that long again.


----------



## jumby

Anybody bulk age dragon blood? If so how long? I bottle mine according to Dave's recipe and they always seem to be gone within a few months.


----------



## bkisel

Just this morning I finished bottling my fifth DB batch. That's five batches just since, I believe, around February of this year. One negative I noticed is that with doing all this DB I've allowed my stock of bottled kit wines to dwindle below a comfortable level. So, probably won't be starting another DB batch until maybe spring time 2015. I'll still follow this thread and post when I feel I've something positive to contribute.


----------



## beano

Hey Ya'll,
I just started a 6 gal. Dragon Blood batch using a quadberry blend from Harris-Teeter. They call it cherry blend even though it is the last ingredient on the package. It has blackberries, blueberries, black raspberries and dark cherries. First time I've seen this. Following Dave's original except for the lemon concentrate. Just used 32 oz. instead of 48 oz. Hope this tastes as good as it smells. Using Red Star Champagne Yeast.

Beano Joe


----------



## bkisel

beano said:


> Hey Ya'll,
> I just started a 6 gal. Dragon Blood batch using a quadberry blend from Harris-Teeter. They call it cherry blend even though it is the last ingredient on the package. It has blackberries, blueberries, black raspberries and dark cherries. First time I've seen this. Following Dave's original except for the lemon concentrate. Just used 32 oz. instead of 48 oz. Hope this tastes as good as it smells. Using Red Star Champagne Yeast.
> 
> Beano Joe



Don't know what difference the yeast will make but I suspect you'll have a winning DB variation when all is said and done.


----------



## ou8amaus

beano said:


> Hey Ya'll,
> I just started a 6 gal. Dragon Blood batch using a quadberry blend from Harris-Teeter. They call it cherry blend even though it is the last ingredient on the package. It has blackberries, blueberries, black raspberries and dark cherries. First time I've seen this. Following Dave's original except for the lemon concentrate. Just used 32 oz. instead of 48 oz. Hope this tastes as good as it smells. Using Red Star Champagne Yeast.
> 
> Beano Joe



That combination of berries sounds great!


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Has anyone made an fpack to add after fermenting? Also, I was gone one day and when I came back the SG was .994 took out mash bag. Tasted this baby is hot. I racked and stopped fermentation with kmeta and ksorbate. When experimenting today with back sweetening I like it about 1.020. Will that be too sweet in the bottle? Thanks ahead of time for any responses. Oh yeah this is a 1/2 mix of tripple and 1/2 blueberry with my own lemon lime twist.


----------



## wineforfun

headwater,
Couple of things.
Never had to add an fpac as mine always has plenty of flavor. I do use 1.5-2lbs. fruit per gallon though.
Also, just to clarify, if your SG was .994, fermentation was already done, you just treated your wine with kmeta and sorbate.
Lastly, what was your starting SG? I believe the "hot" you may be tasting is a mix of alcohol and it needing sweetening.

As far as the 1.020, if that is too your liking, then go for it. Too sweet for me, but would be to my wife's liking. Remember too, after 1-2mos. in the bottle, the fruit flavor really comes forward.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

wineforfun, thanks for the response. My starting was 1.070, looks like I could have used more fruit to start.


----------



## wineforfun

Yeah, I use more fruit than recommended and usually push the SG to 1.090-1.095. 
I think we all have done the original recipe, as written, and then made tweaks from there.


----------



## beano

bkisel said:


> Don't know what difference the yeast will make but I suspect you'll have a winning DB variation when all is said and done.



Well, it sure is happy today. Getting close to the top of the bucket, within an inch. I'll have to watch this one.


----------



## maurtis

beano said:


> Hey Ya'll,
> I just started a 6 gal. Dragon Blood batch using a quadberry blend from Harris-Teeter. They call it cherry blend even though it is the last ingredient on the package. It has blackberries, blueberries, black raspberries and dark cherries. First time I've seen this. Following Dave's original except for the lemon concentrate. Just used 32 oz. instead of 48 oz. Hope this tastes as good as it smells. Using Red Star Champagne Yeast.
> 
> Beano Joe



As soon as I saw "Harris Teeter" I got homesick. I was born in New Bern and spent my teens and early 20s in Raleigh (Go Wolfpack!). I would love to move back, but work and marriage conspire to keep me in Texas.

"I'm going to Carolina in my mind..." 

Looking forward to your DB tasting notes, sounds like it will turn out great!


----------



## geek

I have about 8 gallons ready for super kleer.
Will one package be fine for this batch?
The package is 2-in-1. Kieselsol and Chotosan.


----------



## bkisel

geek said:


> I have about 8 gallons ready for super kleer.
> Will one package be fine for this batch?
> The package is 2-in-1. Kieselsol and Chotosan.



Go for it!

All four of my near standard recipe 6 gallon DB have cleared quickly and very thoroughly in about 2-3 days so I believe a standard dosage should work well on an eight gallon batch.

Matter of fact my standard DB has not needed a third racking before bottling. There is a bit of dusting two weeks after racking of the stabilizing, degassing and clearing phase but so long as I remember to put the tip on my racking cane I'm able to bottle without transferring any sediment. My DB has remained clear even after many months in the bottle.


----------



## geek

I found another super Kleer package so I will play safe and use portion of both.


----------



## geek

Here's the batch now sitting to clear


----------



## auggydoggy502

Just bottled and labeled gonna be giving away a bunch the next 2 day. Been a long day wrapping presents and bottling wine. Did get to us my new whole house filter. Gravity feed and it worked great


----------



## geek

Has anyone seen this, looks like clump formation on the top.

Only happene de on the bigger vessel


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

geek said:


> Has anyone seen this, looks like clump formation on the top.
> 
> Only happene de on the bigger vessel
> 
> View attachment 19748



Mine clumps aren't that big but I pretty much have the same thing going on in my current batch that I used lots of plums in. I was thinking maybe pectin but I really have no idea. Mine formed after adding a second dose of Super Kleer because it wasn't clearing at all. I hope someone else can give us both an answer!


----------



## Thig

auggydoggy502 said:


> Just bottled and labeled gonna be giving away a bunch the next 2 day. Been a long day wrapping presents and bottling wine. Did get to us my new whole house filter. Gravity feed and it worked great



Maybe it is just the picture but this doesn't look anywhere near clear to me, I didn't look back to see but how old is this batch.


----------



## calvin

Did you use a strainer bag for your fruit? Looks like pulp or fruit particles to me. I have had that happen once with an orange wine I made. Should be ok


----------



## geek

yes, I used nylon bags, I think this may have happened once in the past, don't recall.

I stirred a little bit on the top and most of it fell to the bottom, still some particles stuck on the side but I won't bother.

This may be an effect of the pectic, we'll see.

The other 2 jugs (one gallon and 1/2 gallon) didn't get this.


----------



## auggydoggy502

Thig said:


> Maybe it is just the picture but this doesn't look anywhere near clear to me, I didn't look back to see but how old is this batch.



Started it in oct. The bottles are clear just not the glasses. The wine in the glasses was that last bit i had in the filter when i drained the last bit out. Not bad. A little tart, gonna cut back on lemon juice next batch. Hopefully it melows out some like everyone has been saying it will.


----------



## Thig

Got you, I am just starting my first batch of this


----------



## gotbags-10

auggydoggy502 said:


> Just bottled and labeled gonna be giving away a bunch the next 2 day. Been a long day wrapping presents and bottling wine. Did get to us my new whole house filter. Gravity feed and it worked great




How did you like using the fast ferment for your DB? I see you have a filter on it for bottling. Does that take care of the fine lees I assume?I have one that I've been using for beer so far but would like to try it for my next batch of DB.


----------



## auggydoggy502

gotbags-10 said:


> How did you like using the fast ferment for your DB? I see you have a filter on it for bottling. Does that take care of the fine lees I assume?I have one that I've been using for beer so far but would like to try it for my next batch of DB.



I like it. I started the must and fermentation in a brew bucket the after it stabilized i racked into the fast fermenter. I think it will really shine when doing all liquid batches of stuff with out fruit bags that you have to pull out and squeeze. The big thing i was worried about was gravity feeding the filter. It worked great plenty of flow when bottling.


----------



## reefman

Awesome, no need for a pump! I've been looking at the fast ferment, and I think I'll pick one up.


----------



## Ctmaro

geek said:


> Has anyone seen this, looks like clump formation on the top.
> 
> Only happene de on the bigger vessel
> 
> View attachment 19748



I have had the same thing on my Raspberry Mead. Maybe its related to the berries. No matter, it doesn't seem to effect the wine at all.

Mark


----------



## Ctmaro

Thig said:


> Maybe it is just the picture but this doesn't look anywhere near clear to me, I didn't look back to see but how old is this batch.



I was thinking the same thing! Thought maybe it was the counter top. If that's what filtering does to you, then why use it. I simple rack my and get really clear DB.

Mark


----------



## Ctmaro

Quick, but not easy question: How do you calcualte your ABV after you have sweetened it?

For example: start at 1.08, frement to 0.994, but sweeten to 1.02.

The on-line calualators only want beginning and end SG.

Thanks,

Mark


----------



## dangerdave

Back sweetening does not change the ABV. Just punch in the beginning and ending SG.

Good job with the DB, Mark!


----------



## bkisel

Ctmaro said:


> Quick, but not easy question: How do you calcualte your ABV after you have sweetened it?
> 
> For example: start at 1.08, frement to 0.994, but sweeten to 1.02.
> 
> The on-line calualators only want beginning and end SG.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark



Don't really know how to calculate it but it is not going to be a lot for 4-6 cups of sugar in a 6 gallon batch. How do I know that? Because when I add my 4 cups of sugar and stir in the wine level in my carboy increases but a little. I suspect 4 cups would change/decrees the % ABV something like .5 % if that much.

Oops! just read what Dave said. So much for my polish logic.


----------



## willie

Ctmaro said:


> Quick, but not easy question: How do you calcualte your ABV after you have sweetened it?
> 
> For example: start at 1.08, frement to 0.994, but sweeten to 1.02.
> 
> The on-line calualators only want beginning and end SG.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark



Mark, I have this gauge I use for back sweetening if it helps.
Dry <1.000
Med. Dry 1.000 -1.010
Med Sweet 1.010 - 1.020
Sweet 1.020 - 1.030
Dessert 1.030 - 1.040

Will


----------



## chasemandingo

Hey everyone, I just would like to say that db is awesome. I am bout to start my first 5 gallon batch. Just wanna put it out there that I prefer to add one can of welchs white grape juice per gallon and up the fruit to 2 lbs per gallon if possible! Makes one heck of a good wine!


----------



## gotbags-10

I like the idea of adding the grape juice. I'm starting a batch today. Is there any other frozen concentrates that would work?


----------



## barbl72

Anyone ever do a spiced batch of DB? I am a little late for Christmas, but I am going to add cloves and cinnamon sticks to the last weeks of this batch. Anyone have any advice on how much of each?


----------



## Ctmaro

Thanks for the input Dave, Bill, and Will. 

Dave, I was thinking like you, but I like numbers and thought I might be able to calculate it. Oh by the way, got the 100% Raspberry DB sweetened the other day and so far think its going to be a go to wine!

Bill, what you are saying does make perfect sense. When I sweeten (4 to 6 C) after racking off the Sparkolloid, I end up with more wine than I started. So, the volume has actually increased. The question is how does the sugar effect the ABV. If it were water then a decease, but sugar, I don't have any idea. 

Will, I totally agree with you acessment of dryness to sweetness in DB.

Just being a little much of a nerd. I love this wine and every variation I've done so far.

Thanks again,

Mark


----------



## JetJockey

Ctmaro,
Mathematically if you double the volume without adding alcohol, the resulting ABV would be half (6gal/12gal = 0.5 X ABV). 

Since you like numbers, I used Fermcalc to get the following:
Your initial ABV appears to be between 11.4 to 11.7%, depending on calculation method. (Using 1.08 initial SG and 0.994 for final SG. Using all temperature corrected SG's.)

Assuming that you initially had ABV of 11.5% (Duncan Acton method) and exactly 6.0 gallons to start, you would have to add 55.562 oz (6.95 cups) of sugar to get to SG 1.02. The resulting volume would be 6.2557 gal. 

Calculating the Final ABV: 6 gal. Initial vol./6.2557 gal. Final vol. = 0.9591 X 11.5% Initial ABV = Final ABV of 11.03%. (All assuming that yeast did not convert any new sugar to alcohol, i.e. yeast colony is dead.)


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Has anyone use wine conditioner instead of regular sugar in their Dragons Blood? How was the result and how many oz per gallon? Thanks.


----------



## bkisel

HeadWatersWine said:


> Has anyone use wine conditioner instead of regular sugar in their Dragons Blood? How was the result and how many oz per gallon? Thanks.



Not in DB but, but in times past, I've used it in other wines. Entire bottle which I believe is 500ML. Being frugal I made the same wines again with first with simple syrup and then just putting in sugar with near identical sweetness results. To me and my wife (sorry don't have hydrometer readings) 2 cups of sugar approximately equates to the 500ML of the wine conditioner in terms of sweetness. If there is a taste difference I'd have to have them side by side to have any hope of distinguishing a difference.


----------



## Just-a-Guy

What's wine conditioner?


----------



## beano

Just-a-Guy said:


> What's wine conditioner?



FYI...
From Jack Kellers Website:

"Wine Conditioner can be used for simultaneously stabilizing and sweetening a wine. Wine Conditioner is a mixture of potassium metabisulfite, potassium sorbate and non-fermentable sugar. It comes with instuctions."

Beano Joe


----------



## Just-a-Guy

beano said:


> FYI...
> From Jack Kellers Website:
> 
> "Wine Conditioner can be used for simultaneously stabilizing and sweetening a wine. Wine Conditioner is a mixture of potassium metabisulfite, potassium sorbate and non-fermentable sugar. It comes with instuctions."
> 
> Beano Joe



Thanks, Beano. That's helpful... other than the fact that I've never heard of non-fermentable sugar. Doesn't sound like "wine conditioner" would be something I would use, since I'd just use the k-meta and sorbate to stabilize... and then sweeten separately. Don't quite get it, but ok....


----------



## bosco500

How do you guys clean your hands before squeezing the fruit bag? Soap? Star San?


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Have to tell DangerousDave: Just had a wine at my sisters house. She had a couple to choose from and one was a lemon/berry summer wine from a local winery. It is exactly what I believe Dragon Blood was designed to be. Our friends owned this winery and then moved to start another one so we kind of lost track of what they are producing there. I was there a couple of weeks ago and didn't see this, must be seasonal. I only hope mine comes out close to this as it was very good. I can see if this is what Dragon Blood is suppose to taste like why everyone loves it. Should have taken a picture of the label.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

bosco500 said:


> How do you guys clean your hands before squeezing the fruit bag? Soap? Star San?



I am new to this but I use soap, rinse well and then spray my hands with a sterile solution of kmeta.


----------



## bkisel

bosco500 said:


> How do you guys clean your hands before squeezing the fruit bag? Soap? Star San?



I wear a pair of the tall rubber dishwasher gloves. The gloves are easily washed and rinsed, while being worn, then dried. They are spritzed with k-meta solution 5-10 minutes before squeezing. I have paper towel handy to help with drips and stuff.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

barbl72 said:


> Anyone ever do a spiced batch of DB? I am a little late for Christmas, but I am going to add cloves and cinnamon sticks to the last weeks of this batch. Anyone have any advice on how much of each?



I made the spiced Dragon Blood variation for Christmas and I love it! The recipe I found here on the forum called for licorice root but all I had was star anise (which I love) so I used that but otherwise followed the recipe, found here:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/dragon-blood-15-days-31996/index84.html


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bosco500 said:


> How do you guys clean your hands before squeezing the fruit bag? Soap? Star San?



I remove my rings and then while I am sanitizing everything else I need (hydrometer, wine thief, stirring spoon, etc.) in my big bucket of StarSan, I make sure my hands and forearms get swished around in the solution as well.


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I made the spiced Dragon Blood variation for Christmas and I love it! The recipe I found here on the forum called for licorice root but all I had was star anise (which I love) so I used that but otherwise followed the recipe, found here:
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f68/dragon-blood-15-days-31996/index84.html



Sounds great. Glad you really like yours.

Read the recipe and though I know its a matter of degree that wine is way different, in my opinion, than DB. I don't think I'd even call it a DB "variation". Again, just my opinion.

Maybe DB "inspired"?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> Sounds great. Glad you really like yours.
> 
> Read the recipe and though I know its a matter of degree that wine is way different, in my opinion, than DB. I don't think I'd even call it a DB "variation". Again, just my opinion.
> 
> Maybe DB "inspired"?



Really? I think it has the main DB "calling card", a lemon juice base. And it fermented, cleared and was ready to drink in a few weeks. Oh well, potato, patato 

As I look back over the recipe now though, I realize I didn't follow it as closely as I thought I had...heeheehee. I certainly didn't boil the bananas, cloves, raisins and (in my case) star anise, but simply added them to the fruit bag.


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Really? I think it has the main DB "calling card", a lemon juice base. And it fermented, cleared and was ready to drink in a few weeks. Oh well, potato, patato
> 
> As I look back over the recipe now though, I realize I didn't follow it as closely as I thought I had...heeheehee. I certainly didn't boil the bananas, cloves, raisins and (in my case) star anise, but simply added them to the fruit bag.



You make some good points for it being considered a DB variation...  Can't we all just get along?


----------



## jumby

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I remove my rings and then while I am sanitizing everything else I need (hydrometer, wine thief, stirring spoon, etc.) in my big bucket of StarSan, I make sure my hands and forearms get swished around in the solution as well.



+1 

Same here!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> You make some good points for it being considered a DB variation...  Can't we all just get along?



Are you sure we shouldn't drink some wine  and debate this further?  LOLOL


----------



## E_Feythaelas

*First timer wondering about ingredients...*

Hi! New guy, here. I was planning on making this for my first go at wine making this weekend. I was going through the several thousand comments before hoping if someone could give me a couple quick answers?

For the main ingredients, will any tannin, pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient and energizer do? Or should I use specific brands?

Can I bulk age it for a few months and then bottle it? Or should I just bottle right away and let it age in the bottle?

Thanks in advance!
-Pat


----------



## calvin

Yes any brand will work

Bulk aging will reduce chances of getting sediment in your bottles

If this is truly your first wine you will probably be to excited to drink it to let it age in a carboy. I say bottle it up and drink it!


----------



## roger80465

E_Feythaelas said:


> Hi! New guy, here. I was planning on making this for my first go at wine making this weekend. I was going through the several thousand comments before hoping if someone could give me a couple quick answers?
> 
> For the main ingredients, will any tannin, pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient and energizer do? Or should I use specific brands?
> 
> Can I bulk age it for a few months and then bottle it? Or should I just bottle right away and let it age in the bottle?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> -Pat



If you are going to use a kit, all of that is included, if needed. Just follow the instructions on your first attempt. Once you see how the manufacturer planned for the wine to turn out, you can make your own improvements. Enjoy the ride.


----------



## E_Feythaelas

Thank you so much!! I am very excited. I'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## Medic8106

Started my first "full" batch of dragon blood yesterday and pitched the yeast tonight. The fruit is 9 lbs of strawberry/banana mix and 2 lbs of boysenberries. Excited to see how this batch turns out. SG starting at 1.074.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Here it is: I wanted to rerack my version of dragonsblood (blueberry/mixed berry/lemon/lime) only had a 5 gallon carboy so back sweetened it to 1.010 and I had gallon left over. I bottled the excess and put a label on it so you can see. Also, took the liberty to change the name of my basement wine making to Marienstadt Wine. This is taken from the original name of our very German town. It is a very drinkable wine at this early stage.


----------



## willie

HeadWatersWine said:


> Here it is: I wanted to rerack my version of dragonsblood (blueberry/mixed berry/lemon/lime) only had a 5 gallon carboy so back sweetened it to 1.010 and I had gallon left over. I bottled the excess and put a label on it so you can see. Also, took the liberty to change the name of my basement wine making to Marienstadt Wine. This is taken from the original name of our very German town. It is a very drinkable wine at this early stage.



Congrats to you on this batch of wine. It looks really good. And I like your excellent label. 

Will


----------



## willie

E_Feythaelas said:


> Hi! New guy, here. I was planning on making this for my first go at wine making this weekend. I was going through the several thousand comments before hoping if someone could give me a couple quick answers?
> 
> For the main ingredients, will any tannin, pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient and energizer do? Or should I use specific brands?
> 
> Can I bulk age it for a few months and then bottle it? Or should I just bottle right away and let it age in the bottle?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> -Pat



Welcome, Pat just wanted to add that I for the first few batches bottled DB right after I filtered it. But now that we have a small stash I bulk age for a month or so. But as, Dave and others will say that this recipe is made fast to be drank fast. Good Luck. 

Will


----------



## E_Feythaelas

Thank you very much!

-Pat


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Happy New Year, everyone! May the coming days, weeks, and months be filled with merriment, happiness, and love...and, of course, lots and lots of Dragon Blood!


----------



## beano

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Happy New Year, everyone! May the coming days, weeks, and months be filled with merriment, happiness, and love...and, of course, lots and lots of Dragon Blood!



Thanks Val,

I hope everyone has a great new years!!

Best wishes to all of you!

Beano Joe


----------



## WildBillCiarbino

Hey All, hope everyone had a Happy New Year!!!
Sorry for the essay, but I figured I'd give as much info as possible....
This is my first attempt at making Dragon Blood. I set up the must as described by DangerDave on 12/18, and pitched yeast 24 hours afterwards with the brew belt plugged in, on 12/19. 
Nothing at all happened in the first 48 hours, so, fearing I had a bad yeast packet I tried pitching another packet of yeast on the 21st. I was a bit hasty grabbing in the 'fridge and accidentally pitched an 71B-1122 the second pitching, when I had originally used EC-1118. I had a mini-heart attack by the time I realized the error of my ways (6 hours later when I was throwing something else in the trash can), but hoped for the best. Yeast activity was present 12ish hours later after the second pitch.
S.G. readings were as follows:
12/21---1.080
12/22---1.080
12/23---1.078
12/24---1.076
12/25---1.048
12/26---1.015
12/27---0.990

Now when I was open fermenting as recommended, I noticed a pretty potent funky fruit smell but chalked it up to the fermentation process. I've read that sometimes it can get a bit funky.
On the 29th after I noticed it had flatlined, I racked into a carboy, added the Sorbate, K Meta, and Sparkalloid and I've been slowly degassing this week (have a brake bleeder right now, AllinOne wine pump is being shipped as i type). It's nearly clear now, but the smell/taste of the wine isn't quite right, it's very similar to the funky, almost rotten-fruit smell that I experienced when fermentation was taking place. Will this go away eventually? I'm wondering if I got a bad batch of triple-berry from the local WalMart, but for now I'm doing the smart thing and just being patient. I'll probably bulk-age for another month or so before tasting again and back sweetening. 

Hopefully it'll turn out okay given more time, but wanted to confirm. I'm still a relative newbie to this homemade wine hobby, so to me "weird smells" could be "normal smells." For now, my lady friend and I will patiently sip on my recently-finished Moscato.


----------



## freqflyer

It's not impossible that something went wrong but it's unlikely. Funky and weird could be normal. Is it a yeasty bread like smell? Wine tastes and smells pretty nasty until it clears.


----------



## WildBillCiarbino

Yeah, it's kinda yeasty, but the most pronounced smell is fruity, like a bad batch of fruit. I'll probably start a second batch in a week or two, since I have a fermenter & carboy available.


----------



## bkisel

It could be that you've a very sensitive nose. I've not smelled anything bad with my DB but I have had my wife ask something along the lines of.. "What's that smell in the basement? Are you making another wine?" and I've smelled little or nothing at all.

So, if I smelled something along the lines of what you're describing I'd be concerned enough to also come here and post.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

WildBillCiarbino said:


> Hey All, hope everyone had a Happy New Year!!!
> Sorry for the essay, but I figured I'd give as much info as possible....
> This is my first attempt at making Dragon Blood. I set up the must as described by DangerDave on 12/18, and pitched yeast 24 hours afterwards with the brew belt plugged in, on 12/19.
> Nothing at all happened in the first 48 hours, so, fearing I had a bad yeast packet I tried pitching another packet of yeast on the 21st. I was a bit hasty grabbing in the 'fridge and accidentally pitched an 71B-1122 the second pitching, when I had originally used EC-1118. I had a mini-heart attack by the time I realized the error of my ways (6 hours later when I was throwing something else in the trash can), but hoped for the best. Yeast activity was present 12ish hours later after the second pitch.
> S.G. readings were as follows:
> 12/21---1.080
> 12/22---1.080
> 12/23---1.078
> 12/24---1.076
> 12/25---1.048
> 12/26---1.015
> 12/27---0.990
> 
> Now when I was open fermenting as recommended, I noticed a pretty potent funky fruit smell but chalked it up to the fermentation process. I've read that sometimes it can get a bit funky.
> On the 29th after I noticed it had flatlined, I racked into a carboy, added the Sorbate, K Meta, and Sparkalloid and I've been slowly degassing this week (have a brake bleeder right now, AllinOne wine pump is being shipped as i type). It's nearly clear now, but the smell/taste of the wine isn't quite right, it's very similar to the funky, almost rotten-fruit smell that I experienced when fermentation was taking place. Will this go away eventually? I'm wondering if I got a bad batch of triple-berry from the local WalMart, but for now I'm doing the smart thing and just being patient. I'll probably bulk-age for another month or so before tasting again and back sweetening.
> 
> Hopefully it'll turn out okay given more time, but wanted to confirm. I'm still a relative newbie to this homemade wine hobby, so to me "weird smells" could be "normal smells." For now, my lady friend and I will patiently sip on my recently-finished Moscato.



I often have a bit of a sulfur or egg smell until my wine is completely degassed but I have never had a funky fruit smell. I guess I wouldn't worry too much until it is completely degassed and cleared. If it still doesn't seem right at that point, maybe age it in the carboy for a few weeks and see what you think then?


----------



## Ctmaro

JetJockey said:


> Ctmaro,
> Mathematically if you double the volume without adding alcohol, the resulting ABV would be half (6gal/12gal = 0.5 X ABV).
> 
> Since you like numbers, I used Fermcalc to get the following:
> Your initial ABV appears to be between 11.4 to 11.7%, depending on calculation method. (Using 1.08 initial SG and 0.994 for final SG. Using all temperature corrected SG's.)
> 
> Assuming that you initially had ABV of 11.5% (Duncan Acton method) and exactly 6.0 gallons to start, you would have to add 55.562 oz (6.95 cups) of sugar to get to SG 1.02. The resulting volume would be 6.2557 gal.
> 
> Calculating the Final ABV: 6 gal. Initial vol./6.2557 gal. Final vol. = 0.9591 X 11.5% Initial ABV = Final ABV of 11.03%. (All assuming that yeast did not convert any new sugar to alcohol, i.e. yeast colony is dead.)



Thanks Bob for the answer.
Sorry its taken me a bit to get back to you.

So as I see it, if I measure my fluid volume (after racking), take a SG reading, add my sugar, measure the new volume, I should be able to figure the % new volume, and reduce ABV by that percent.

Thanks,

Mark


----------



## Dana355

Just had a bottle pop the cork off bottled 4 weeks ago first time this has happened.


----------



## beano

Dana355 said:


> Just had a bottle pop the cork off bottled 4 weeks ago first time this has happened.



Dana355, 

This sound like an omen. You should make the sacrifice and drink it. 
On the other hand, it may have had some residual sugar and wasn't quite finished. Or not gassed off good. I always leave my bottled wine to stand upright for several days to let the gasses escape in case I didn't do a good job de-gassing. 
Maybe someone else will gesture a guess?

Beano Joe


----------



## gaboy

beano said:


> Dana355,
> 
> This sound like an omen. You should make the sacrifice and drink it.
> On the other hand, it may have had some residual sugar and wasn't quite finished. Or not gassed off good. I always leave my bottled wine to stand upright for several days to let the gasses escape in case I didn't do a good job de-gassing.
> Maybe someone else will gesture a guess?
> 
> Beano Joe



I assume that is CORKED for the several days? (New to This!)


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Dana355 said:


> Just had a bottle pop the cork off bottled 4 weeks ago first time this has happened.



I think I would visually check all bottles from that same batch and then open at least one bottle to see if the wine has any fizz or whether there was some pressure/escaping gas. I would want to see if this was a fluke or whether you need to take some preventative action to make sure you don't have more bottles popping their corks.


----------



## Dana355

Thanks everyone


----------



## dangerdave

Bottle bombs suck! To avoid them, make sure you have fesh sorbate (less than a year old). Make sure you degass _very_ thoroughly. Make sure the wine is _completely_ clear. Filter!

I use a Vinbrite filter, and I have not had a bottle bomb (knock, knock!) since I started filtering. The Vinbrite is relatively cheap, and very easy to setup and use. It really makes your wine shine, and gets the last of any stray yeasties out of there.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I don't know if you all remember back to my Concord Grape DB version, but it was one that gave me problems clearing even after 2 doses of SuperKleer. Well, it has turned out to be my husband's and my brother's favorite batch and one that I will definitely make again when I get my hands on some more grapes. My only problem....last night I noticed that it has dropped a lot of sediment in the bottle, even though I thought I had finally gotten it clear before I bottled. What do you all suggest, just pour carefully? I have heard of some people rebottling but I would imagine that comes with a risk of infection or oxygenation.


----------



## wineforfun

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I don't know if you all remember back to my Concord Grape DB version, but it was one that gave me problems clearing even after 2 doses of SuperKleer. Well, it has turned out to be my husband's and my brother's favorite batch and one that I will definitely make again when I get my hands on some more grapes. My only problem....last night I noticed that it has dropped a lot of sediment in the bottle, even though I thought I had finally gotten it clear before I bottled. What do you all suggest, just pour carefully? I have heard of some people rebottling but I would imagine that comes with a risk of infection or oxygenation.



If the taste is to your liking then just pour carefully. Interesting to hear as SuperKleer usually takes care of all the sediment.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

wineforfun said:


> If the taste is to your liking then just pour carefully. Interesting to hear as SuperKleer usually takes care of all the sediment.



I have had two batches so far where SuperKleer just hasn't done the trick...at least not quickly or well. The first was this concord grape and the second is a plum version I have waiting to clear right now. I am seriously considering adding bentonite to everything other than berry versions in the future...or maybe giving Sparkalloid a try.


----------



## bosco500

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I have had two batches so far where SuperKleer just hasn't done the trick...at least not quickly or well. The first was this concord grape and the second is a plum version I have waiting to clear right now. I am seriously considering adding bentonite to everything other than berry versions in the future...or maybe giving Sparkalloid a try.



I had the same thing happen to a gallon of mead I made. I had 3 separate but similar gallons going at the same time. Added the same dose of superkleer (from the same packet) to all three gallons at the same time. All 3 of them were fairly clear to begin with. Two cleared up immediately, the other got very hazy and has been clearing for over a month now. I never figured it out but it definitely had something to do with the superkleer.


----------



## RaymondoChin

I'm getting ready to start a batch of peach DB. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to add my pectic enzyme to my frozen peaches in layers when I put them in a bucket to thaw. If so, how long should I wait to add the Kmeta ? Also as I understand it the Pectic is the only chem I cant really over do, so would it be a good idea to up the dose the recipe calls for on these peaches ? These are peaches I destoned, cut up and froze. 
Thanks, Mark


----------



## wineforfun

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I have had two batches so far where SuperKleer just hasn't done the trick...at least not quickly or well. The first was this concord grape and the second is a plum version I have waiting to clear right now. I am seriously considering adding bentonite to everything other than berry versions in the future...or maybe giving Sparkalloid a try.



That is funny because when I first started making DB and others(a couple years ago), all I used was Sparkalloid. It was leaving these "whispy" swirls of sediment. Wine was crystal clear when bottling, then this stuff would appear a month or so later. Once I switched to Superkleer, never had them again. It seems to compact the lees much tighter than Sparkalloid. 
Keep me/us posted on how you solve your issue.


----------



## bkisel

RaymondoChin said:


> I'm getting ready to start a batch of peach DB. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to add my pectic enzyme to my frozen peaches in layers when I put them in a bucket to thaw. If so, how long should I wait to add the Kmeta ? Also as I understand it the Pectic is the only chem I cant really over do, so would it be a good idea to up the dose the recipe calls for on these peaches ? These are peaches I destoned, cut up and froze.
> Thanks, Mark



I've made a peach DB variation but spritzed with k-meta solution before freezing. Pectic enzyme was added as per DB recipe - day one with all the other stuff.


----------



## RaymondoChin

Thanks Bill. I just had it in my mind for some reason that some extra pectic would be good for peaches. Not sure why.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

RaymondoChin said:


> Thanks Bill. I just had it in my mind for some reason that some extra pectic would be good for peaches. Not sure why.



I think peaches, plums, and from what I recently discovered, concord grapes, could all maybe use an extra dose of pectic enzyme. From my experience, wines made with these fruits are slow to clear so adding a bit more pectic enzyme at the start might help in the long run.


----------



## cmason1957

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I think peaches, plums, and from what I recently discovered, concord grapes, could all maybe use an extra dose of pectic enzyme. From my experience, wines made with these fruits are slow to clear so adding a bit more pectic enzyme at the start might help in the long run.



I think you can add pears and sometimes apples to that list as well.


----------



## knifemaker

cmason1957 said:


> I think you can add pears and sometimes apples to that list as well.



cmason, you've got that right! this fall was the first time I've ever had to pour out wine. I started with several buckets of winter pears, ground and pressed them into juice and started the fermentation. I came home from work the next day to find billowing clouds of slime oozing over the top of my fermentation buckets, and all over my kitchen floor. I've never seen this before, as i've never used winter pears, only bartletts. The winter pears must've had an unusually high level of pectin in them, as it all turned into a gel!  having to dump 15 gallons of pear juice really made my day. Dale.


----------



## RaymondoChin

That's probably why I had the thought of extra pectic enzyme. We ran into the same thing with the concord I helped my wife make. We had a white swirly sediment drop out out after bottling. All though we did miss a racking. I was thinking maybe the peaches might do better with some extra. I think I will give it a try. Am I thinking right about holding off a day on adding my kmeta so as not to interfere with my enzymes or am I confusing that with bentonite ?
Mark


----------



## RegarRenill

Add the kmeta, wait 12 hrs, add pectic enzyme, way 12 more hrs and add yeast, nutrients, etc.


----------



## bkisel

RaymondoChin said:


> Thanks Bill. I just had it in my mind for some reason that some extra pectic would be good for peaches. Not sure why.



I should add that for my peach (~14 lbs.) DB variation I did, for the first time making DB, use Bentonite in the primary. Might be the reason that the recipe amount of pectic worked for me while others need/needed more to get peaches to clear. I did in fact decide to use Bentonite because of folks like those above mentioned clearing challanges when using peaches and such.


----------



## RaymondoChin

Thanks again to everyone for your input
Mark


----------



## gaboy

I sweetened my initial DB last week and started to bottle it today. It is still too dry for my taste, so the question I have is: Can I resweeten it again before bottling, used sorbate before and if I sweeten again I would assume to sorbate it again?? Thanks for the help!!


----------



## calvin

No need to sorbate again. Remember the fruit flavors will start to come out more in about a month or so. Once you put sugar in you can't take it back out. so be careful not to over do it


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

gaboy said:


> I sweetened my initial DB last week and started to bottle it today. It is still too dry for my taste, so the question I have is: Can I resweeten it again before bottling, used sorbate before and if I sweeten again I would assume to sorbate it again?? Thanks for the help!!



I agree with Calvin...no need to add more sorbate as it has done its job of prohibiting refermentation. What gravity did you backsweeten the wine to?


----------



## gaboy

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I agree with Calvin...no need to add more sorbate as it has done its job of prohibiting refermentation. What gravity did you backsweeten the wine to?



1.02 after the 2nd sweetening.


----------



## Medic8106

Got my first " full " batch of Strawberry/banana/boysenberry dragon blood transferred to secondary a few days ago. Looks beautiful, can't wait to see how it turns out.


----------



## MrsJones

I started my second batch of Dragon Blood on Sunday. My first was the current version of the original recipe, and this second batch has many, many modifications based on all of the good feedback and trials and errors I've read on this thread.

Here's the recipe:
6 lbs of mixed fruit, 1 banana (peeled) bottle of lemon juice, 1 liter of pomegranate juice, 1lb of Santana raisins, and 1/2 cup of American toasted oak cubes. 

Wish me luck!


----------



## bkisel

MrsJones said:


> I started my second batch of Dragon Blood on Sunday. My first was the current version of the original recipe, and this second batch has many, many modifications based on all of the good feedback and trials and errors I've read on this thread.
> 
> Here's the recipe:
> 6 lbs of mixed fruit, 1 banana (peeled) bottle of lemon juice, 1 liter of pomegranate juice, 1lb of Santana raisins, and 1/2 cup of American toasted oak cubes.
> 
> Wish me luck!



Good luck! [But I've a feeling you won't need it.]


----------



## Ctmaro

With Raspberry DB done and bottled, it time to move on to straight Strawberry DB. 

All though I like the raspberry, it could have used a little more raspberry taste to it.

So my question is: How much strawberry to use?

When I make regular strawberry wine I use 18#/5 gallons.

Thank,

Mark


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Ctmaro said:


> With Raspberry DB done and bottled, it time to move on to straight Strawberry DB.
> 
> All though I like the raspberry, it could have used a little more raspberry taste to it.
> 
> So my question is: How much strawberry to use?
> 
> When I make regular strawberry wine I use 18#/5 gallons.
> 
> Thank,
> 
> Mark



Hi Mark! I haven't made a straight strawberry yet, but Dave's contest winning Strawberry Tart Dragon Blood recipe calls for 15 pounds. I am definitely planning on making a batch for summer!


----------



## WildBillCiarbino

Time for my second batch...I'm upping the fruit to 12lbs, and debating on adding some pomegranate juice. At the store they have "Pom" in a snowman-shaped bottle. I didn't see any preservatives listed, but wanted to be sure...Anyone have experience with this one?


----------



## Ctmaro

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Hi Mark! I haven't made a straight strawberry yet, but Dave's contest winning Strawberry Tart Dragon Blood recipe calls for 15 pounds. I am definitely planning on making a batch for summer!



Thanks, I thought I read something like that, but it hard to go through 270 pages to find it.

Mark


----------



## Ctmaro

WildBillCiarbino said:


> Time for my second batch...I'm upping the fruit to 12lbs, and debating on adding some pomegranate juice. At the store they have "Pom" in a snowman-shaped bottle. I didn't see any preservatives listed, but wanted to be sure...Anyone have experience with this one?



I made a straight POM wine last year; no problem with fermentation, but it was so tart, it was almost u drinkable.

Ended up mixing with banana wine to drink it.

Mark


----------



## dangerdave

Both my raspberry version and my sweet strawberry tart required extracts to bring the flavor to where I wanted it.


----------



## Jericurl

My largest batch of wine so far.....10 gallons of Christmas Dragon's Blood. I'm using the same recipe that I used for Christmas 2013. This batch will age and be used for gifts Christmas 2015. I added a vanilla bean, 5 cloves, 3 star anise, and 1.5 oz of dried elderberries. I want the spice to be there but subtle.

Has anyone tried oaking DB yet?
I have some french cubes and some cubes soaked in rum. I'm thinking of splitting the batch 5 gallons apiece and adding one kind of cubes to each.

eta: I'm too lazy to get up and go check my brew long right this second...but I used @ 30 lbs of fruit in this batch!!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

dangerdave said:


> Both my raspberry version and my sweet strawberry tart required extracts to bring the flavor to where I wanted it.



From your notes for the Strawberry Tart, it says you added Watkins strawberry extract and, well, it must have turned out great because you won the contest...lol. But have you ever used any other strawberry flavoring? I was thinking about trying the frozen strawberry daiquiri concentrate.


----------



## jumby

I noticed my dragon blood is dropping some sediment in the bottle. It's been bottled for about a month and a half now. My question is does anybody bulk age DB in the carboy before bottling it and if so how long? I have a batch in the carboy now and I'm thinking about bulk aging it for about 3 months before bottling.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

jumby said:


> I noticed my dragon blood is dropping some sediment in the bottle. It's been bottled for about a month and a half now. My question is does anybody bulk age DB in the carboy before bottling it and if so how long? I have a batch in the carboy now and I'm thinking about bulk aging it for about 3 months before bottling.



I have had a couple different batches drop sediment in the bottle, my concord grape version being the worst so far. I am sort of being forced to bulk age my latest batch which had lots of plums in it because it just isn't clearing. That being said, I am only at about 6 weeks and it will be hard for me to wait once it does clear because I know it will be ready to drink....well and because patience is a virtue I do not possess...lol.


----------



## wineforfun

Jericurl said:


> My largest batch of wine so far.....10 gallons of Christmas Dragon's Blood. I'm using the same recipe that I used for Christmas 2013. This batch will age and be used for gifts Christmas 2015. I added a vanilla bean, 5 cloves, 3 star anise, and 1.5 oz of dried elderberries. I want the spice to be there but subtle.
> 
> Has anyone tried oaking DB yet?
> I have some french cubes and some cubes soaked in rum. I'm thinking of splitting the batch 5 gallons apiece and adding one kind of cubes to each.
> 
> eta: I'm too lazy to get up and go check my brew long right this second...but I used @ 30 lbs of fruit in this batch!!



WOW, that is quite the undertaking there. 

I oaked a much smaller batch a couple years ago but don't believe I left it in long enough. Really didn't notice any flavor difference. 
I did use oak with the DB port and it gave it a real nice flavor. That recipe also called for quite a bit more fruit(similar to how much per lb. you used).

I need to get a batch of your "Christmas" version going, it looks really good. Out of room in my wine rack so need to get drinking or giving it away.


----------



## bkisel

jumby said:


> I noticed my dragon blood is dropping some sediment in the bottle. It's been bottled for about a month and a half now. My question is does anybody bulk age DB in the carboy before bottling it and if so how long? I have a batch in the carboy now and I'm thinking about bulk aging it for about 3 months before bottling.



I've had no sediment issues with any of the 4 regular (i.e. 6 lbs berry) DB batches I've made and I don't think any of them were bulk aged more than just a few weeks. Three were racked 3 times and one I think only twice. My ~14 lbs. peach DB variation did have sediment and I think a longer bulk aging period with an extra racking might have helped.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Jericurl said:


> My largest batch of wine so far.....10 gallons of Christmas Dragon's Blood. I'm using the same recipe that I used for Christmas 2013. This batch will age and be used for gifts Christmas 2015. I added a vanilla bean, 5 cloves, 3 star anise, and 1.5 oz of dried elderberries. I want the spice to be there but subtle.
> 
> Has anyone tried oaking DB yet?
> I have some french cubes and some cubes soaked in rum. I'm thinking of splitting the batch 5 gallons apiece and adding one kind of cubes to each.
> 
> eta: I'm too lazy to get up and go check my brew long right this second...but I used @ 30 lbs of fruit in this batch!!



I love, love the Christmas Dragon's Blood! I am a big fan of anise flavor and it really comes out in my batch, which makes me very happy. A lot of my friends aren't a fan though, but that just means I don't have to share...LOL.

I throw a handful or two of oak chips in all of my DB batches but just leave them in for the primary fermentation so it is a very subtle addition of flavor.


----------



## jumby

Do you think 3 months in the carboy is adequate time for all the sediment to drop? I usually shoot for 6 or more months with my reds.


----------



## wineforfun

jumby said:


> Do you think 3 months in the carboy is adequate time for all the sediment to drop? I usually shoot for 6 or more months with my reds.



Did you put your fruit in a bag when fermenting? I assume you racked per instructions and used Sparklloid? And let it sit the recommended time, per instructions, before racking off sediment?
There is no reason you need to bulk age DB for 3 months. At the 3 month mark, it is hitting it's prime to be drank.


----------



## jumby

wineforfun said:


> Did you put your fruit in a bag when fermenting? I assume you racked per instructions and used Sparklloid? And let it sit the recommended time, per instructions, before racking off sediment?
> There is no reason you need to bulk age DB for 3 months. At the 3 month mark, it is hitting it's prime to be drank.



The fruit was in a bag and I followed the instructions. Maybe I'll give it a month in the carboy then bottle.


----------



## wineforfun

jumby,
Hmmm, I got nothing for you then. I have made numerous batches and varieties of DB and never had sediment drop in the bottles. Only issue I have had is when using Sparklloid, it sometimes leaves this "whispy" sediment that shows up a month or two later. I have since switched to SuperKleer.


----------



## jumby

wineforfun said:


> jumby,
> Hmmm, I got nothing for you then. I have made numerous batches and varieties of DB and never had sediment drop in the bottles. Only issue I have had is when using Sparklloid, it sometimes leaves this "whispy" sediment that shows up a month or two later. I have since switched to SuperKleer.



That's exactly what I have! A "whispy" "cloudy" sediment floating around at the bottom of the bottle. SuperKleer will take of that? If so I'll use SuperKleer for all my future batches.


----------



## jumby

Is it to late to add SuperKleer to the batch I currently have in the carboy? It's already been cleared and sweetened.


----------



## willie

jumby said:


> Is it to late to add SuperKleer to the batch I currently have in the carboy? It's already been cleared and sweetened.



Just want to add if you have cleared and sweetend then you should filter before bottling. If you want to bulk age for a few weeks that will be fine. Just remember your DB will pretty much peek in flavor at about 3 months or so. 
If there is sediment in a bottle of wine when you want to drink it , just filter thru something like cheese cloth or similar into a carafe or pitcher. Or just pour and stop before the sediment pours out. 

Will


----------



## wineforfun

jumby said:


> Is it to late to add SuperKleer to the batch I currently have in the carboy? It's already been cleared and sweetened.



Can't answer that as I have never "re-cleared" a clear wine. I know when I first started making DB it was crystal clear in the carboy and when I bottled it. 1-2 mos. goes by and those "whispies" show up. I have heard from others they have had that issue when using Sparklloid, although others haven't. 

jamesngalveston(former member here) got me using SuperKleer. Where Sparklloid leaves a fluffier pack of sediment on the bottom, SuperKleer leaves a more compact pile of sediment.


----------



## michael-s

*How long in the bottle ?*

Quick question about Dragon Blood Wine to everyone. After the db wine is bottled how long can the wine sit on the rack before drinking it. I read at around 3 months the wine will be at its peak taste but I want to know how long it can sit on the wine rack, is it years or only months. I have 2 batches of DB that is now about 8 months old and it will probably be quite some time before we drink it.
What is your opinion on this. Thank you.


----------



## wineforfun

The oldest I have drank was 14mos. old. It had not improved any over the 3-4 mo. mark. Mine usually lasts between 8-10mos.


----------



## SwampDog35

Just an update on my first batch of DB. I have racked it twice for safe measure. About to back-sweeten tonight and let sit for another week.

Also started Monday with a new Batch of Blueberry Pomegranate DB. Wife and I can't wait to try that one out.
Pictures to come.


----------



## dangerdave

IMO, oak is great in Dragon Blood. After much experimentation, I use 1/3 cup of untoasted oak powder in my primaries. It gives a nice bold oak background to the otherwise bold taste of DB. But I'm an oak nut anyway. This version has converted my wife to be an oak lover as well---at least in _this_ recipe.

Sparkolloid was used in the original recipe to keep the cost down---because that was one of the main goals early on. By all means, use whatever clearing agent you want. I'm a Super Kleer guy myself, now. Wonderful stuff!

DB rarely lasts a couple of months at our house. If it's getting that old, I give it away. Like most of the DB officionados have pointed out, it doesn't seem to improve after a few months. I have saved some for a year in the past to see how it turned out, and I was surprised to find it developed a spicey undertone, like cinnamon. Some people might like it that way, but I prefer to drink it young.


----------



## gaboy

dangerdave said:


> IMO, oak is great in Dragon Blood. After much experimentation, I use 1/3 cup of untoasted oak powder in my primaries. It gives a nice bold oak background to the otherwise bold taste of DB. But I'm an oak nut anyway. This version has converted my wife to be an oak lover as well---at least in _this_ recipe.
> 
> Sparkolloid was used in the original recipe to keep the cost down---because that was one of the main goals early on. By all means, use whatever clearing agent you want. I'm a Super Kleer guy myself, now. Wonderful stuff!
> 
> DB rarely lasts a couple of months at our house. If it's getting that old, I give it away. Like most of the DB officionados have pointed out, it doesn't seem to improve after a few months. I have saved some for a year in the past to see how it turned out, and I was surprised to find it developed a spicey undertone, like cinnamon. Some people might like it that way, but I prefer to drink it young.


If using oak chips, would you place them in the nylon bag with the Triple Blend Berries, after 1st mashing the bag to extract the juices into the primary, the 1st time????


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

gaboy said:


> If using oak chips, would you place them in the nylon bag with the Triple Blend Berries, after 1st mashing the bag to extract the juices into the primary, the 1st time????



I don't put my oak chips in the fruit bag because I mash the fruit daily while the bag is in the primary and the chips are a sharp and get in the way. I just let them float and don't have any trouble keeping them from getting through the racking process.


----------



## gaboy

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I don't put my oak chips in the fruit bag because I mash the fruit daily while the bag is in the primary and the chips are a sharp and get in the way. I just let them float and don't have any trouble keeping them from getting through the racking process.



Thanks, Val!!


----------



## willie

Thanks D.J.,Dave and others on the info. about Super Kleer. I have been using Sparkaloid as per the original recipe. A couple of my batches have had some wisps of sediment in the bottles after a couple of months. As soon as I use up what Spark. I have left I will make the switch to S.K. 

Will


----------



## jumby

I too will be switching over to Super Kleer for all my future batches.


----------



## boozehound

6.5 gallons of Dragon Blood gone!

Poeple use your wine bottle carrying handle. I left mine in drawer and now I have to drink off the floor.


----------



## sour_grapes

boozehound said:


> 6.5 gallons of Dragon Blood gone!
> 
> Poeple use your wine bottle carrying handle. I left mine in drawer and now I have to drink off the floor.



So sorry for your troubles! Thanks for the PSA.


----------



## jumby

I have some DB in the carboy I'm going to bottle on Friday. Would it be Ok to add a little more sugar prior to bottling? The wife decided she would prefer it to be a little sweeter.


----------



## willie

jumby said:


> I have some DB in the carboy I'm going to bottle on Friday. Would it be Ok to add a little more sugar prior to bottling? The wife decided she would prefer it to be a little sweeter.



The answer to your question is yes. Once it has cleared you can add sugar any time before bottling. What ever it takes to get the desired sweetness you want. You can also add sugar/sweetener to your glass of wine after pouring if it is too dry for your tastes. 

Will


----------



## bkisel

boozehound said:


> 6.5 gallons of Dragon Blood gone!
> 
> Poeple use your wine bottle carrying handle. I left mine in drawer and now I have to drink off the floor.



Hopefully you weren't cut. I've broken one carboy in the two years that I've been making wine. Happened to me while cleaning a carboy in the kitchen sink. No wine was lost but I did get a small cut.


----------



## wineforfun

jumby said:


> I have some DB in the carboy I'm going to bottle on Friday. Would it be Ok to add a little more sugar prior to bottling? The wife decided she would prefer it to be a little sweeter.



Willie is right on.

Also, if you get the DB to the desired sweetness you/wife wants, take an SG reading and then you will know where to get the DB too next time. I do this and keep detailed notes on how much sugar I added so if I really like a certain batch, I can mimic it pretty closely.


----------



## jumby

wineforfun said:


> Willie is right on.
> 
> Also, if you get the DB to the desired sweetness you/wife wants, take an SG reading and then you will know where to get the DB too next time. I do this and keep detailed notes on how much sugar I added so if I really like a certain batch, I can mimic it pretty closely.



Great info as always guys, thanks!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

boozehound said:


> 6.5 gallons of Dragon Blood gone!
> 
> Poeple use your wine bottle carrying handle. I left mine in drawer and now I have to drink off the floor.
> 
> View attachment 20218



Oh my, that is so sad! Cleaning up a broken carboy is bad enough but filled with over 6 gallons of wine would be a nightmare. I think I might have just sat down and cried!


----------



## boozehound

I didn't cry but I did sit down and drink a bottle of wine waiting to see if it would clean its self up. So with that all behind me now I'm starting 12 more gallons today. I'm outta lemon juice can someone tell how much acid blend to use in the 6 gallon recipe? I've been doing the 48oz lemon juice but am willing to try the acid blend version. 
Thanks bz


----------



## HB_in_Subic

wineforfun said:


> Willie is right on.
> 
> Also, if you get the DB to the desired sweetness you/wife wants, take an SG reading and then you will know where to get the DB too next time. I do this and keep detailed notes on how much sugar I added so if I really like a certain batch, I can mimic it pretty closely.



If you sweeten, don't you need to use some potassium sorbate to stop the yeast before you bottle? Otherwise you would end up with carbonated wine?


----------



## calvin

Yes. You must use sorbate to prevent fermentation of the added sugar


----------



## Avantjour

*Bottled another batch of Dragon Blood...*

One of my Grandsons, JT, helped me with the bottling of another batch of Dragon Blood.

From sanitizing the bottles, filling and corking, he did an excellent job.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Taste testing the blueberry/mixed berry/lemon/lime dragons blood tonight. Finally tasting the lime coming through at the end. Its nice. I know Dave says it peaks at three months. Trying to wait till then.


----------



## calvin

Make more than you can drink. Then waiting is easy. I suggest a brute trash can!


----------



## Evrwhr

That's a tough lesson boozehound, and a heck of a mess.... Looks like you have some in the pipeline....


----------



## SayginPatent

*Saygin Patent*
Sektörde 2006 yılından bu yana hizmet vermekte olan firmamız mesleki bilgileri kuvvetli kadrosu ile birlikte; Yurtiçi ile Yurtdışında faaliyet göstermekte olan gerçek ve tüzel kişilere resmi olarak vekillik/danışmanlık hizmetleri sunmaktadır. Türkiye çapında bir çok sektörde referans sahibi olan firmamızda gün geçtikçe müşteri sayısı çoğalmaktadır. 
Sınai Mülkiyet Hakları konularında her zaman firmamızı arayabilir, marka ve patent vekillerimizden bu konularla ilgili her türlü bilgiyi edinebilirsiniz. 

http://www.sayginpatent.com


----------



## bkisel

SayginPatent said:


> *Saygin Patent*
> Sektörde 2006 yılından bu yana hizmet vermekte olan firmamız mesleki bilgileri kuvvetli kadrosu ile birlikte; Yurtiçi ile Yurtdışında faaliyet göstermekte olan gerçek ve tüzel kişilere resmi olarak vekillik/danışmanlık hizmetleri sunmaktadır. Türkiye çapında bir çok sektörde referans sahibi olan firmamızda gün geçtikçe müşteri sayısı çoğalmaktadır.
> Sınai Mülkiyet Hakları konularında her zaman firmamızı arayabilir, marka ve patent vekillerimizden bu konularla ilgili her türlü bilgiyi edinebilirsiniz.
> 
> http://www.sayginpatent.com



Bizim forum Hoş Geldiniz!


----------



## wineforfun

HB_in_Subic said:


> If you sweeten, don't you need to use some potassium sorbate to stop the yeast before you bottle? Otherwise you would end up with carbonated wine?



Calvin is right on.

I was making the assumption that he had already added sorbate since he was at the bottling stage.


----------



## jumby

Sorbate has already been added. It's already been sweetened once. The wife just decided she would like it a little sweeter.


----------



## wineforfun

jumby,
Just remember too, this wine will have more flavor and appear somewhat sweeter in a couple of months. It all blends together well.
Not to say you/wife may not want it sweeter, but just keep that in mind so you don't oversweeten it.


----------



## jumby

wineforfun said:


> jumby,
> Just remember too, this wine will have more flavor and appear somewhat sweeter in a couple of months. It all blends together well.
> Not to say you/wife may not want it sweeter, but just keep that in mind so you don't oversweeten it.



This is my 2nd batch. I initially sweetened this batch to the same level as the 1st. The 1st batch is now over 2 months old and the wife would prefer it to be just a little sweeter.


----------



## jumby

btw, I backsweetened my 1st batch to 1.010. I think I'm going take this batch up to 1.020-1.025


----------



## wineforfun

I would not go over 1.020 until you see. That is quite a jump. I think at 1.015 you will notice a difference. Just my .02


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Has anyone just blended or use food processor on the fruit instead of the squeezing method Dave taught us? By the way I have read this whole thread over a months time and just don't remember seeing the answer.


----------



## WildBillCiarbino

HeadWatersWine said:


> Has anyone just blended or use food processor on the fruit instead of the squeezing method Dave taught us? By the way I have read this whole thread over a months time and just don't remember seeing the answer.



I'd imagine you could do that---it'll just take additional racking to remove the extra debris floating around in there. I've seen people who let fruit float in the must and disregard mesh bags altogether, but they have these issues. The end result is probably the same or identical as using a bag, just more cleanup/clearing is required if the fruit matter is more finely smashed/squished/cut/blended.


----------



## boozehound

Anyone got the amount of acid blend to use instead of lemon juice?

Thanks jd


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

boozehound said:


> Anyone got the amount of acid blend to use instead of lemon juice?
> 
> Thanks jd



Danger Dave has his Dragonette version which uses 3 tsp. of acid blend in place of the lemon juice. I notice that the recipe also ups the fruit to 12 pounds though...I don't know if there is a direct correlation!


----------



## dangerdave

Sorry for the loss of the DB, jd. There's more where that came from! Wine on!

In my experience, there is no need or benefit to processing the fruit before primary. It just makes a bigger mess and loss of wine at rackings. I have stream-lined my own process, and continue to tweak my methods for my own batches. Not all of these are reflected in the posted recipe. I might consider adding more notes in a new version of the recipe some day, but having multiple versions floating around, I have found, has caused confusion at times. Better to stick with the one version and let people decide from there where they want to take their own. For example, I now make all my batches in my Brute, three at a time (18 gallons). I use triple everything, except just one packet of yeast. I add one third cup of untoast oak powder per batch, and extra wine tannin after fermentation (3 tsp per batch). I use an extended brew belt wrapped around the Brute to keep it warm, and keep it up off the floor with a pallet. I handle my fruit while it's still frozen, placing six pounds of fruit per batch into cheap knee-high womens stockings. These are simply discarded when fermentation is complete and they've been squeezed down to nothing. I use kieselsol and chitosan for clearing. About half of each batch goes into gallon jugs for easy household consumption (and fewer bottles to wash!) while the rest gets bottled for gifting and swapping.

Now all my secrets are out!


----------



## dangerdave

I was not very happy with the outcome of the Draggonette, although some people like that version. I never had a chance to check the pH of the Dragonette vs the original, so I have no idea if 3 tsp was enough. I started with that amout because most recipes I found that use acid blend said so. May be someone who regularly makes the Dragonette will chime in.


----------



## Ctmaro

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Danger Dave has his Dragonette version which uses 3 tsp. of acid blend in place of the lemon juice. I notice that the recipe also ups the fruit to 12 pounds though...I don't know if there is a direct correlation!



While on the subject of Dragonette; 

I am thinking of trying a straight strawberry Dragonette, but run into the same problem I have had before when making plain strawberry wine: How do I get the additional juice from frozen (thawed) strawberries? Or can I buy strawberry juice somewhere? 

I've looked everywhere I can think of, and can't find just juice anywhere. I don't want anything artificial.

Could I just add strawberries into the wine at step 4?

I've heard of people using extracts, but am afraid of an artificial taste to my finished wine.

Anyone have any ideas?

Mark


----------



## dangerdave

Vintner's Harvest makes a strawberry wine base. I have used several of their products with success, but not the strawberry (I mean that I haven't tried it). It's also probably not the cheapest option, but there it is.


----------



## wineforfun

Dave,
I agree with the Dragonette. We did not care for it. It seemed very flat to us. Have stuck with the original with modifications.

Also, are you only adding 1/3cup of oak and 3 tsp. tannin to that 18 gal. batch? or are you talking a regular 6 gal. batch?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

This isn't Dragon Blood related but I value all of your wine knowledge and have a question. I have only been making wine for about 7 months and have made mostly Dragon Blood and other fruit wines and meads. I am stepping out and made a Cabernet Sauvignon from a kit. I have chosen to age in the bottles because carboys are a precious commodity for me and I have tons of bottles. So at bottling, the wine tastes good but "thin", for a lack of a better term. Since I haven't done a whole lot of aging with the varieties I've made, I don't completely understand what improves over time. I know that flavors can come forward but will aging improve the overall body of the wine?


----------



## dangerdave

wineforfun said:


> Dave,
> I agree with the Dragonette. We did not care for it. It seemed very flat to us. Have stuck with the original with modifications.
> 
> Also, are you only adding 1/3cup of oak and 3 tsp. tannin to that 18 gal. batch? or are you talking a regular 6 gal. batch?


 
Sorry if that was confusing. I'm adding 1 cup of oak to the 18 gallons in the fermenter. After I rack the wine into carboys, I add 3 tsp of wine tannin to each of the three six gallon batches. My wife has bad fibromyalgia, and she says she can tell the difference in her pain level with the extra tannin---which is known to have some anti-inflamitory properties.


----------



## wineforfun

dangerdave said:


> Sorry if that was confusing. I'm adding 1 cup of oak to the 18 gallons in the fermenter. After I rack the wine into carboys, I add 3 tsp of wine tannin to each of the three six gallon batches. My wife has bad fibromyalgia, and she says she can tell the difference in her pain level with the extra tannin---which is known to have some anti-inflamitory properties.



I gotcha, thanks for the clarification. Are you just using basic tannin or is it something special?


----------



## dangerdave

Just basic stuff, nothing special.


----------



## wineforfun

Thank you.


----------



## maurtis

dangerdave said:


> Sorry if that was confusing. I'm adding 1 cup of oak to the 18 gallons in the fermenter. After I rack the wine into carboys, I add 3 tsp of wine tannin to each of the three six gallon batches. My wife has bad fibromyalgia, and she says she can tell the difference in her pain level with the extra tannin---which is known to have some anti-inflamitory properties.



Interesting. My wife has fibro as well. I will try oaking in the primary and extra tannin in the secondary for my next batch. Thanks for the tip, Dave!


----------



## Medic8106

I racked my strawberry/banana/boysenberry dragon blood to the secondary on Jan 7th. Added kmeta 1/4 tsp and sparkalloid. I just got around to sweetening yesterday and noted a slight sulphur smell. Not horrible but enough even my wife smelled it during the process. I splash racked yesterday. Will it go away in time or should I splash rack again? Thoughts?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Medic8106 said:


> I racked my strawberry/banana/boysenberry dragon blood to the secondary on Jan 7th. Added kmeta 1/4 tsp and sparkalloid. I just got around to sweetening yesterday and noted a slight sulphur smell. Not horrible but enough even my wife smelled it during the process. I splash racked yesterday. Will it go away in time or should I splash rack again? Thoughts?



I have the All-In-One Wine Pump so when I notice the sulfur smell I will splash rack back and forth between two carboys several times. The smell is usually gone within a day. I would say that if you can still smell the sulfur after 24 hours, I would splash rack again.


----------



## Ctmaro

Medic8106 said:


> I racked my strawberry/banana/boysenberry dragon blood to the secondary on Jan 7th. Added kmeta 1/4 tsp and sparkalloid. I just got around to sweetening yesterday and noted a slight sulphur smell. Not horrible but enough even my wife smelled it during the process. I splash racked yesterday. Will it go away in time or should I splash rack again? Thoughts?



Hi Nathan,

I've had sulfur smell twice on my wines, and fixed them both by stripping some copper house wire bare, and stirring it in my wine. The copper reacts with H2S, precipitating out. It only takes 5 of 10 seconds of stirring and its gone.

Mark


----------



## maurtis

I would get a little sulfur smell when I would add all of my yeast nutrient all in the beginning. Once I started adding some in the beginning and the rest at the 1/3 or 1/2 sugar break I have not had an issue. I was stressing out my yeast.

But yes, I found that a splash racking would help cut the smell a good bit and the rest dissipated by the time I bottled.


----------



## Ctmaro

Ctmaro said:


> While on the subject of Dragonette;
> 
> I am thinking of trying a straight strawberry Dragonette, but run into the same problem I have had before when making plain strawberry wine: How do I get the additional juice from frozen (thawed) strawberries? Or can I buy strawberry juice somewhere?
> 
> I've looked everywhere I can think of, and can't find just juice anywhere. I don't want anything artificial.
> 
> Could I just add strawberries into the wine at step 4?
> 
> I've heard of people using extracts, but am afraid of an artificial taste to my finished wine.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Mark



OKay. I am still working the kinks out on a Strawberry DB.

Now I am thinking a variation on Dave's "Sweet Strawberry Tart." I'll follow the "Tart" recipe with half the lemon juice, and then try adding strawberry juice instead of Daiquiri Mix.

Tart recipe says 1 cup of french medium toast oak; I have chips. Is this what you, Dave, used? I also saw mention of 1/3 cup oak powder ( I don't have ).

I'm still not sure about the juice. Am looking into Dave's suggest, but sounds spendy. I found, on-line, where you take 2# strawberries and 1 qt. water, and slowly simmer for 20 minutes, then strain through a fine sieve. It was part of a strawberry lemonade recipe. I might try that.

I will probably reduce the sugar way down; shooting for more of a dry wine with strawberry flavor. 

Anyone out there making a dry DB? How does the fruit flavor hold up to being a dry wine? 

I made a regular dry raspberry and seemed to lose a lot of the raspberry flavor even after flavor packing with fresh raspberry juice.

Mark


----------



## Medic8106

Thanks everyone. I will try the wire and then remember to add the nutrient in steps. It didn't have this smell when I went from the primary to secondary though.


----------



## barbl72

Help! I 'spiced' my last 6 gallons of DB - I used cloves and cinnamon sticks and it tastes awful! It is dry - I only use 1 1/2 cups of sugar to backsweeten. What can I do to improve the flavor? Could I add sugar to each bottle as I open it? I am going to try that tonight. Or mix it with 7-up or something. I have 29 bottles left! Suggestions please!


----------



## wineforfun

Yes, I would add sugar as you drink it or I supposed you could uncork it all, re-backsweeten and then re-bottle(although that would not be my choice). 
Look at it as a lesson learned. 
Why only 1 1/2c sugar? Had you done this before?
And how long did you leave the cinammon/clove in? In the primary or secondary? I would have personally experimented on 1 gal. of it to get the qty. and longevity correct.


----------



## barbl72

wineforfun said:


> Yes, I would add sugar as you drink it or I supposed you could uncork it all, re-backsweeten and then re-bottle(although that would not be my choice).
> Look at it as a lesson learned.
> Why only 1 1/2c sugar? Had you done this before?
> And how long did you leave the cinammon/clove in? In the primary or secondary? I would have personally experimented on 1 gal. of it to get the qty. and longevity correct.



I've made TONS of DB and found the 1 1/2 cups of sugar is dry but not terribly so. I am not a sweet wine fan. I used the cinnamon/cloves in the secondary. I forgot to add the ginger. That might have made it better. Next time I'll just do a little. Sounded like a good idea. There is a spiced DB recipe out there. I should have followed that!


----------



## stef57

Wow!! This is exactly what i was looking for!! I've searching high and low for variations of Lon's SP that include fruits.... all I could find until now was people using damn Koolaid?!?! and concentrate juice cans. Who would have thought I would find the answers in a wine making forum.... (to my defence i'm primarily a brewer) 
I see there's a bunch of variations scattered on this thread, but nearing 300 pages. Has anyone gone through and put them all together somewhere??
I don't really use forums all that much, so I get easily lost in there...


----------



## calvin

It would be impossible to put them all down somewhere. The sky is the limit. I'd suggest doing the original recipe first then try using whatever fruit you desire


----------



## wineforfun

stef57 said:


> I see there's a bunch of variations scattered on this thread, but nearing 300 pages. Has anyone gone through and put them all together somewhere??



Have you read through this thread at all? On the first page is the recipe and a .pdf file talking about quite a few of the original variations. From there, we have all come up with our own tweaks and variations.


----------



## Ctmaro

stef57 said:


> Wow!! This is exactly what i was looking for!! I've searching high and low for variations of Lon's SP that include fruits.... all I could find until now was people using damn Koolaid?!?! and concentrate juice cans. Who would have thought I would find the answers in a wine making forum.... (to my defence i'm primarily a brewer)
> I see there's a bunch of variations scattered on this thread, but nearing 300 pages. Has anyone gone through and put them all together somewhere??
> I don't really use forums all that much, so I get easily lost in there...



I know how you feel! When I first stumbled across this DB forum, thought the sky had parted! Now I've done so many variations, I would have to count through my notes! Still trying new ones (Strawberry Tart)! Have Fun!

Mark


----------



## dangerdave

Ctmaro said:


> OKay. I am still working the kinks out on a Strawberry DB.
> 
> Tart recipe says 1 cup of french medium toast oak; I have chips. Is this what you, Dave, used? I also saw mention of 1/3 cup oak powder ( I don't have ).


 
I did not use the oak powder in the SST, just the french oak chips.


----------



## stef57

Ctmaro said:


> I know how you feel! When I first stumbled across this DB forum, thought the sky had parted! Now I've done so many variations, I would have to count through my notes! Still trying new ones (Strawberry Tart)! Have Fun!
> 
> Mark



Lol. I came across it a day too late... I made a batch of original SP on Saturday. Split it in 2 ½ batches ready for fruits. Then come across this thread. Since it was done already, I went ahead and tossed the fruit in last night anyways. But when I have a fermenter liberated, I will definitely try a batch of this


----------



## barbl72

barbl72 said:


> Help! I 'spiced' my last 6 gallons of DB - I used cloves and cinnamon sticks and it tastes awful! It is dry - I only use 1 1/2 cups of sugar to backsweeten. What can I do to improve the flavor? Could I add sugar to each bottle as I open it? I am going to try that tonight. Or mix it with 7-up or something. I have 29 bottles left! Suggestions please!



I added sugar to a bottle last night and that made a really big difference! Just wish I hadn't drank the whole bottle myself! LOL!


----------



## maurtis

One bottle per person is just about right, but I found that two bottles on a hot day doing yardwork makes things go by so much more quickly! The bushes end up being trimmed lopsided, but at least you have fun doing it


----------



## SwampDog35

This may be the stupidest question, However after calculating our final ABV it came out to 9.94%.
My wife says she could stand for it to be a little stronger. 

Do I add more sugar in the original step or take away sugar?

Sorry for the newbie question.


----------



## calvin

More sugar


----------



## SwampDog35

Thank you Calvin. Thats what I thought just wanted to make sure.


----------



## wineforfun

I always start mine out around 1.095+ so I can end up with 12.5 - 13% ABV.


----------



## Ctmaro

dangerdave said:


> I did not use the oak powder in the SST, just the french oak chips.



Thanks Dave!

I went ahead and use 1 cup of chips in my primary. I am thinking of straining, washing, and placing them back into the secondary once the must goes dry. The wine and chip will have a little more contact time that way. 

Mark


----------



## Ctmaro

stef57 said:


> Lol. I came across it a day too late... I made a batch of original SP on Saturday. Split it in 2 ½ batches ready for fruits. Then come across this thread. Since it was done already, I went ahead and tossed the fruit in last night anyways. But when I have a fermenter liberated, I will definitely try a batch of this



Before DB, I would start a 1 or 2 gallon batch of fruit wine, and use it for a starter for SP. it worked great, but took more time, and made a bigger mess. It also had a lot of the lemon flavor carry through.

DB makes for a more fruit forward wine.

Mark


----------



## dangerdave

I'm glad everyone is enjoying the recipe! Keep on winin'!


----------



## quiltertoo

I am ready to start my first batch of DB. I don.t have any kind of degasser. Is there anything I can use or should I wait until I can order one?


----------



## HeadWatersWine

You don't need a degasser just a large spoon and lots of stamina. Keep stirring.


----------



## maurtis

Agreed, I now have one of those wine whips you attach to a drill but when I first started just used a long plastic spoon and stirred, stirred, stirred. Worked fine.


----------



## willie

quiltertoo said:


> I am ready to start my first batch of DB. I don.t have any kind of degasser. Is there anything I can use or should I wait until I can order one?



quitertoo, welcome to the DB Thread. I believe I read a few a few months back of folks using a coat hanger rigged as a stirrer attached to their drill. Much easer than stirring by hand.

Will


----------



## stef57

quiltertoo said:


> I am ready to start my first batch of DB. I don.t have any kind of degasser. Is there anything I can use or should I wait until I can order one?




Use a spoon or paddle,
I have a degasser for my drill and it sits with my seldom use gear.... I find that I can do a better job with a spoon and some elbow grease.
If you are degassing a full carboy, put in the sink or on a towel, it will likely spill over. you can also draw off a few litres if it is full to the top. Degas your carboy and drawn wine separately then refill the carboy when you're done

I also just started my first batch of DB last night... now I'm debating if I'll use EC-1118 or ICV-D47, might just flip a coin


----------



## willie

I have read that these are the best at taking the least time to degas a carboy full of wine. http://www.midwestsupplies.com/three-prong-de-gasser-and-aerator.html
I use one that is like a two propeller job that I attached to a drill that came with the wine making kit that I bought from the Toy Store during one of their sales at Christmas season 2013. I works fine but I would think the three prong type would be better at getting your wine degassed fast. Just my two cents. 

Will


----------



## jumby

I use the three prong type like pictured. After degassing I usually let the wine age in the carboy 6 months to completely degas and clear before bottling.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

When I first started, I used one of the wine degassers attached to a drill. However, one of the best investments I have made is the All In One Wine Pump. Now I can degas just by transferring back and forth between a couple carboys a few times. Works wonders for that sulfur smell too and for bottling. I love it! It is, of course, much more expensive than a whip degasser but if you have a wish list, I would definitely add it to it.


----------



## bkisel

I have the two blade properer type but just before the last use added a nylon cable tie to each blade. Helped some but still had to finish the degassing with my Vacu Vin hand pump.


----------



## quiltertoo

My fruit is thawing. I decided to use 12 lbs. for a 6 gallon batch. Now I wonder if I should change the 20 cups of sugar. Will the additional fruit add more sugar to the mix? I know the hydrometer will tell me the sg but I don't want the abv to be more than about 12%.


----------



## bkisel

quiltertoo said:


> My fruit is thawing. I decided to use 12 lbs. for a 6 gallon batch. Now I wonder if I should change the 20 cups of sugar. Will the additional fruit add more sugar to the mix? I know the hydrometer will tell me the sg but I don't want the abv to be more than about 12%.



From my experience I wouldn't cut back on the 20 cups of sugar. I've been using a whole 10 pound bag which is approximately 23 cups of sugar and been measuring around 11% abv with six pounds of mixed berries. I don't think you'll hit 12% with 20 cups and an extra 6 pounds of fruit unless you might be using some real exotic fruit that contains a whole lot of sugar. Again, just from my experience with 5 batches of DB under my belt.


----------



## quiltertoo

Another question. I bought Great Value 100% lemon juice. I just read the label and it says ingredients: lemon juice from concentrate,sodium bisulfate,sodium benzoate and lemon juice. Has anyone used this brand? Will the preservatives cause a problem with fermenting? I would like to thank everyone who has answered my questions.


----------



## geek

quiltertoo said:


> Another question. I bought Great Value 100% lemon juice. I just read the label and it says ingredients: lemon juice from concentrate,sodium bisulfate,sodium benzoate and lemon juice. Has anyone used this brand? Will the preservatives cause a problem with fermenting? I would like to thank everyone who has answered my questions.




I used same brand many times, no problem.


----------



## Ctmaro

quiltertoo said:


> Another question. I bought Great Value 100% lemon juice. I just read the label and it says ingredients: lemon juice from concentrate,sodium bisulfate,sodium benzoate and lemon juice. Has anyone used this brand? Will the preservatives cause a problem with fermenting? I would like to thank everyone who has answered my questions.



Real lemon has preservatives also, this is why you wait 12 to 48 hours before pitching the yeast.

I've use this brand of lemon juice and lime juice without any trouble.

Mark


----------



## willie

geek said:


> I used same brand many times, no problem.



Good question and info. I will switch to Great Value next batch. 

Will


----------



## peaches9324

And you might also want to treat it like you would skeeter pee and give it a good whipping


----------



## SwampDog35

Has anyone used the Red Star Montrachet yeast with DB?

I forgot to get the Lalvin EC-1118.

Suggestions?


----------



## stef57

Started my first 2 batches of DB on the weekend!!  1 original and a Mango-Pineapple version, the first was pitched on sunday the other this morning, both with ICV-D47. The room they sit in downstairs smells pretty darn good already! can't wait to give them a try


----------



## wineforfun

SwampDog35 said:


> Has anyone used the Red Star Montrachet yeast with DB?
> 
> I forgot to get the Lalvin EC-1118.
> 
> Suggestions?



I think everyone making DB has tried almost every yeast out there. If it is all you have, go for it. Lalvin is just the "go to" from the original recipe.


----------



## SwampDog35

Thanks. Got another 6.5 gallons going again last night. So far our test batch has been a hit. It a supply and demand world. I'm running out of supply and my wife is demanding more. ..


I might have screwed up adding more sugar, my starting SG is 1.110... is that a bad thing?


----------



## wineforfun

Not a bad thing if you like high alcohol. I make mine all around 1.095-1.100 now so I end up with 12.5-13%ABV. Just make sure you use plenty of fruit(I use 1.5lbs. per gallon) so you don't drown out the flavor with the alcohol.


----------



## quiltertoo

"When the wine has stabilized below 1.000 for 3 days rack into a clean saniti zed carboy and add potassium metabisulfate and potassium sorbate then degass. " I will have to stir by hand to degass and I wonder if I could rack into a clean sanitized fermenter first. Degass then rack to the carboy. It seems like it would be easier to stir in a bucket than in the carboy. Is there a reason to do this in the carboy?


----------



## bkisel

quiltertoo said:


> "When the wine has stabilized below 1.000 for 3 days rack into a clean saniti zed carboy and add potassium metabisulfate and potassium sorbate then degass. " I will have to stir by hand to degass and I wonder if I could rack into a clean sanitized fermenter first. Degass then rack to the carboy. It seems like it would be easier to stir in a bucket than in the carboy. Is there a reason to do this in the carboy?



There should be no problem doing it your way. Many people see an advantage of stir degassing in a bucket because of a larger surface area and no neck restriction as compared to a carboy. You can use the large paddle end instead of the small paddle end of your stirring spoon and that's a big advantage. I've done it many times that way myself with no negative results.


----------



## Ferb

Has anyone tried to back sweeten with honey instead of sugar?


----------



## wineforfun

Ferb said:


> Has anyone tried to back sweeten with honey instead of sugar?



Yes, I have used honey up fornt instead of sugar and when backsweetening. Didn't notice alot of taste difference. Did have a little different texture to it. I didn't find enough advantages to warrant the cost of the honey.

You are essentially making a melomel.


----------



## barbl72

quiltertoo said:


> "When the wine has stabilized below 1.000 for 3 days rack into a clean saniti zed carboy and add potassium metabisulfate and potassium sorbate then degass. " I will have to stir by hand to degass and I wonder if I could rack into a clean sanitized fermenter first. Degass then rack to the carboy. It seems like it would be easier to stir in a bucket than in the carboy. Is there a reason to do this in the carboy?



I wondered this too. I've made wine from juice buckets from LuvaBella Winery and their instructions degass in the bucket. Seems a lot more efficient!


----------



## barbl72

Has anyone made DB with honey instead of sugar? How about back sweetening with honey instead of sugar?


----------



## wineforfun

barbl72 said:


> Has anyone made DB with honey instead of sugar? How about back sweetening with honey instead of sugar?



See post #2803


----------



## Jericurl

After my epic WOTM fail last June, I decided to make a Dragon's Blood variation with elderberry.

It's my Elderdragon Wine (for all you Skyrim fans)

1 lb plums 
12 lbs blueberries
5 lbs strawberries
9.6 oz elderberries
1/2 of the large bottle of lemon juice
sugar to 1.10 SG
7 tsp french oak powder
The usual suspects for nutrients etc.

I didn't add any acid or tannins for this one.
I figure the lemon juice takes care of the acid and the elderberries will probably add enough tannin.

I mixed this up in June, must have racked it a time or two between July and August, then just forgot about it.
I rediscovered it in December.
On January 1, I racked it onto about a 1/2 cup of sugar and 2 cups of frozen/thawed strawberries.

I just racked again and tasted it.

This is the best Dragon's Blood variation I've made to date.
Manthing has claimed the entire batch in the name of the Dragonborn.


----------



## bkisel

Just curious... Why did you name this variation based on the elderberries when weight wise the elderberries contribute the least fruit to the recipe?


----------



## dangerdave

Jeri, we are some die hard Skyrim fans at this house. FUS RO DAH!

Love the name, love the elderberry addition. I see you balanced the bold berries with some French oak---nice call. I'll definately be giving this one a shot! Thank you!


----------



## Jericurl

> Why did you name this variation based on the elderberries when weight wise the elderberries contribute the least fruit to the recipe?



These were dried elderberries.
The taste is mostly elderberry with everything else playing nicely in the background.


----------



## maurtis

Going to whip up a new batch of DB now that my primary is free (racked my mojito skeeter pee to the secondary last night).

I am going to try Dave's idea of oak powder in the primary and extra tannin in the secondary, hopefully to help with my wife's fibromyalgia.

Dave, you mentioned using 1/3 cup of untoasted oak powder in the primary and 3 tsp of tannin in the secondary. I assume this is for 18 gallon batches? So if I am making 6 gallon batches I cut those by 2/3?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Jericurl said:


> After my epic WOTM fail last June, I decided to make a Dragon's Blood variation with elderberry.
> 
> It's my Elderdragon Wine (for all you Skyrim fans)
> 
> 1 lb plums
> 12 lbs blueberries
> 5 lbs strawberries
> 9.6 oz elderberries
> 1/2 of the large bottle of lemon juice
> sugar to 1.10 SG
> 7 tsp french oak powder
> The usual suspects for nutrients etc.
> 
> I didn't add any acid or tannins for this one.
> I figure the lemon juice takes care of the acid and the elderberries will probably add enough tannin.
> 
> I mixed this up in June, must have racked it a time or two between July and August, then just forgot about it.
> I rediscovered it in December.
> On January 1, I racked it onto about a 1/2 cup of sugar and 2 cups of frozen/thawed strawberries.
> 
> I just racked again and tasted it.
> 
> This is the best Dragon's Blood variation I've made to date.
> Manthing has claimed the entire batch in the name of the Dragonborn.



I am waiting on my second batch of Elderberry-Plum DB to clear right now. With the plum, it takes forever but it was worth the wait the first time around so I am sure it will be again. I think I will give your recipe a try though when I am ready for another batch!


----------



## dangerdave

maurtis said:


> Dave, you mentioned using 1/3 cup of untoasted oak powder in the primary and 3 tsp of tannin in the secondary. I assume this is for 18 gallon batches? So if I am making 6 gallon batches I cut those by 2/3?


 
I use 1/3 cup of untaosted American oak powder per six gallon batch in the primary, and add 3 tsp additional wine tannin at stabilization time (when the sulphite and sobate are added).

It may seem like a heavy load of tannins (I'm still using 3 tsp tannin in the primary, also), but the Dragon Blood seems to handle it well, having a nice bold flavor up front.

Johnna loves it!


----------



## maurtis

Awesome, thanks for the clarification Dave. Looks like I need to pick up some more tannin. Looking forward to how this batch turns out.


----------



## willie

*Gina's recipe*

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/winemaker-interview-gina-hudson-jojabri.html

Gina's interview as with all the others was awesome. She said her most popular recipe was what she called Passion Peach. I was thinking of doing a 6 gal. batch using similar ingredients couple of weeks ago but couldn't find the mixes at the local Wally store. I guess I will have to widen the search to see if those mixes are available around here and also figure out in what quantity to make the 6 gal. batch.

Will


----------



## wineforfun

That was a great read. I love her perspective on things.


----------



## gotbags-10

Getting ready to backsweeten my latest batch. Ive just used sugar in the past but I would like to try some frozen mixed berry concentrate. As far a using it do I need to boil it down and add pectic enzyme? How much enzyme would I add? Also would I need to wait an extended period of time after adding this before I bottle? Ideally I would like to add concentrate today and bottle this weekend. Possible? I should add that it has already been cleared and degassed for a couple of weeks.


----------



## quiltertoo

*very tart*

My first batch of mixed berry db is ready to rack into a carboy. I tasted it and it seems very tart. 46 oz. of gv lemon juice for 6 gal. I want to start another batch using elderberries this time.I have 8 1/2 lbs. of frozen elderberries and about 1 lb. of frozen red table grapes. Will this work for 3 gallons and can I reduce the amount of lemon juice to maybe 16 oz. for the 3 gallons? I am wondering if when I back sweeten my mixed berry batch it will not seem so tart. Also if I make a fpack for the 6 gallon batch how many lbs. of fruit would you use?


----------



## wineforfun

gotbags-10 said:


> Getting ready to backsweeten my latest batch. Ive just used sugar in the past but I would like to try some frozen mixed berry concentrate. As far a using it do I need to boil it down and add pectic enzyme? How much enzyme would I add? Also would I need to wait an extended period of time after adding this before I bottle? Ideally I would like to add concentrate today and bottle this weekend. Possible? I should add that it has already been cleared and degassed for a couple of weeks.



You shouldn't need to wait to bottle, after adding concentrate or racking onto it, providing it isn't a "pulpy" concentrate like some pineapple, etc. 

I make a wine from lemon and lime juice as the base and then rack onto different concentrates after it has cleared and am ready to bottle right away, if need be. I never have to add anything else to it, ie: pectic, etc.


----------



## wineforfun

quiltertoo said:


> My first batch of mixed berry db is ready to rack into a carboy. I tasted it and it seems very tart. 46 oz. of gv lemon juice for 6 gal. I want to start another batch using elderberries this time.I have 8 1/2 lbs. of frozen elderberries and about 1 lb. of frozen red table grapes. Will this work for 3 gallons and can I reduce the amount of lemon juice to maybe 16 oz. for the 3 gallons? I am wondering if when I back sweeten my mixed berry batch it will not seem so tart. Also if I make a fpack for the 6 gallon batch how many lbs. of fruit would you use?



As far as the tartness, most of that will subside after you have backsweetened and given it a couple months in the bottle. The fruit will come forward and all will be well.


----------



## gotbags-10

What kinds of frozen concentrates have people been using to backsweeten? I was going to use the berry blend.


----------



## wineforfun

Any time I use frozen concentrate it is Old Orchard 100% "whatever flavor", ie: blueberry pomegranate, strawberry kiwi, cranberry, etc.


----------



## dangerdave

Good answers, DJ. You know your stuff! I have nothing to add.


----------



## JackKeller

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. Sodium Benzoate creates benzoic acid and prevents yeast from reproducing---same as potassium sorbate.

You have to read the labels _in the store_, not at home. However, every brand I have looked at contains it as a countermeasure to any airborne yeast or other microorgamisms from causing problems in the container (the amount used is small; as the extreme acidity will prevent any yeast from living in the container) rather than when it is used for making a beverage. Even RealLemon and RealLime contain it and I have used them for years in winemaking. Unless you are making Skeeter Pee, you can add it after fermentation has run its course. When using it _during fermentation_ (as with Skeeter Pee), a good yeast starter solution husbanded for 24 or more hours before pitching in the primary will overcome any problem.


----------



## wineforfun

JackKeller said:


> When using it _during fermentation_ (as with Skeeter Pee), a good yeast starter solution husbanded for 24 or more hours before pitching in the primary will overcome any problem.



Jack,
I make quite a bit of wine with RealLemon and RealLime and have never had to use a starter. I use Lalvin EC-1118 typically with it. Could that be why or is the 24hrs. you speak of just a good precaution?


----------



## wineforfun

dangerdave said:


> Good answers, DJ. You know your stuff! I have nothing to add.



Thanks sensei(Dave). Alot of trial and error.


----------



## JSquared

I am very new to wine making and I started my first batch of Original DB on 2/6 and I followed the recipe exactly. Dropped EC 1118 on 2/7 w SG 1.88, these are my readings. 2/8 SG 1.90, 2/9 SG 1.84, 2/10 SG 1.79, 2/11 SG 1.74, 2/12 SG 1.72..... Constant temperature of 66' and I have blankets wrapped around my fermenting bucket. Unfortunately I don't have a belt to raise the temp so my question is, Am I still doing okay or do I need worry about the slow SG drop? Thanks in advance for any advise!!


----------



## calvin

The cool temps r causing it to go slow. I wouldn't worry about a thing.


----------



## bkisel

JSquared said:


> I am very new to wine making and I started my first batch of Original DB on 2/6 and I followed the recipe exactly. Dropped EC 1118 on 2/7 w SG 1.88, these are my readings. 2/8 SG 1.90, 2/9 SG 1.84, 2/10 SG 1.79, 2/11 SG 1.74, 2/12 SG 1.72..... Constant temperature of 66' and I have blankets wrapped around my fermenting bucket. Unfortunately I don't have a belt to raise the temp so my question is, Am I still doing okay or do I need worry about the slow SG drop? Thanks in advance for any advise!!



Welcome to the forum! 

I think you're okay...

From LALVIN...

EC-1118
Saccharomyces bayanus

Origin
The EC-1118 strain was isolated, studied and selected from Champagne fermentations. Due to its competitive factor and *ability to ferment equally well over a wide temperature range*, the EC-1118 is one of the most widely used yeasts in the world. 

Oenological properties and applications
The fermentation characteristics of the EC-1118 — extremely low production of foam, volatile acid and hydrogen sulfide (H2S) — make this strain an excellent choice. *This strain ferments well over a very wide temperature range, from 10° to 30°C (50° to 86°F)* and demonstrates high osmotic and alcohol tolerance. Good flocculation with compact lees and a relatively neutral flavor and aroma contribution are also properties of the EC-1118. 

The EC-1118 strain is recommended for all types of wines, including sparkling, and late harvest wines and cider. It may also be used to restart stuck fermentations.

An excellent choice for champagnes and late harvest wines. Also a very good choice for dry whites.


----------



## cheesehead

Welcome to the wine making family JSquared!!! , are those specific gravity readings accurate or are you missing a "0" as in 1.090, 1.084 etc...? and as Bkisel states with great info, that yeast is good to go, but temps determine the speed at which you will ferment to dry, usually higher temps = faster process. if you dont have a brew belt , try a electric heating pad or blanket or it could be as simple as moving the container to a warmer part of the house for the first stage of fermentation. and if you cant do the above, then patience is the key. Good luck, and keep asking questions , this forum is always glad to help new and old members at anytime!


----------



## JSquared

Yes it should be reading like 1.072 SG, just a typo. Thank you for welcoming me with open arms! I think I really goofed on this one though. After checking everything else, I went back and checked and I had distilled water! I have always used spring water. Can I still save this batch? It is still forming a head. I will get a heating blanket to bring the temp up. Could I add more yeast nutrient to help feed the yeast? I can also stir twice a day to help add the oxygen it needs?? Any ideas, it's so beautiful and fragrant, I would hate to scrap it! Thanks guys, gonna check those plastic jugs of water more carefully from now on! We live and learn!


----------



## sour_grapes

Welcome J^2.

Yes, distilled water is not ideal, but I am sure your batch will turn out fine. Just relax and enjoy the fermenting goodness!

You can stir it twice a day without harming it. 

Enjoy!


----------



## JSquared

Thanks Sourgrapes, "relax" is going to be the hard part for me! Everything I have read says DB is hard to mess up, hopefully I won't!


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> Thanks Sourgrapes, "relax" is going to be the hard part for me! Everything I have read says DB is hard to mess up, hopefully I won't!



Did you say you are stirring twice a day or that you could? I always stir mine twice a day, once in morning and once in evening.

On a side note, I am currently making a variation of DB(jericurl's recipe) and it uses Red Star Champagne yeast. Pitched it Sunday with a SG of 1.095 and last night it is already down to 1.006. No brew belt, blankets, etc. House temp. is set at 68. I have noticed on other wines I have made with Red Star Champagne yeast that it seems to ferment fairly quick.


----------



## JSquared

I was originally stirring only once a day following the directions but I am increasing it to twice a day now to add the extra oxygen. I have also added a heated blanket to it. I live in the south but it's been danged cold lately!


----------



## jumby

You can always throw an aquarium heater in it. That's what I use. Keeps the must at a constant 76 degrees.


----------



## calvin

I started a 12 gallon batch of Dave's sweet strawberry tart yesterday. For my sweetie of course. 




Dave, if you have time it would be nice to get the recipe for this posted in the recipe section

I found the frozen berries at Aldi for $2 a pound


----------



## JSquared

Calvin looks great! That recipe is on my wish list to make!


----------



## JSquared

By the way, I have finally finished reading this thread start to finish! Wow great group of people with great information. I'm so glad I found this site!


----------



## bkisel

JSquared said:


> By the way, I have finally finished reading this thread start to finish! Wow great group of people with great information. I'm so glad I found this site!



Your perseverance is admirable  but your common sense is suspect. 

I actually did the same before my first post to this thread.


----------



## calvin

I made a 6 gallon batch of this a while ago. My wife loves it. So I'm making her 60 bottles of it


----------



## willie

calvin said:


> I made a 6 gallon batch of this a while ago. My wife loves it. So I'm making her 60 bottles of it



Calvin, I have a 6 gal. batch going on it's 4th day of ferment. Purchased 16 lb of strawberries at Kroger's and have to say they are awesome. Big whole red all the way thru the fruit and so pungent in that wonderful strawberry smell. If it goes to dry at an SG .990 the ABV will be 13%. Have my fingers crossed the wine will be delicious and ready for Spring along with a batch of Tropical Blood that is Clearing right now. 

http://www.privateselection.com/_kr.../file/516355A3-C29C-379C-F36BF040E22FC9F0.jpg

Will


----------



## gaboy

Calvin and Willie, What is the recipe that you are using?


----------



## calvin




----------



## gaboy

Wonderful INFO!! Thanks Calvin!!


----------



## cheesehead

calvin, you and I are on the same page this week! I too have started the same recipe and also found the berries at Aldis for $1.89 per pound , however i will not be doing that again. After 2+ hours of coring the whole strawberries i figured that the savings of .10 per pound over sams club 5lb frozen berries in the bag isnt worth the coring washing freezing and thawing anymore, of course this is my own opinion. our batches are looking pretty identical except i tossed in 1spiral in instead or chips, do you intend on transfering the chips to your carboy for the next steps, or should we remove the oak after the SG drops to<1.000? any suggestions as this is my 1st attemt at oaking anything ive made.


----------



## calvin

cheesehead said:


> calvin, you and I are on the same page this week! I too have started the same recipe and also found the berries at Aldis for $1.89 per pound , however i will not be doing that again. After 2+ hours of coring the whole strawberries i figured that the savings of .10 per pound over sams club 5lb frozen berries in the bag isnt worth the coring washing freezing and thawing anymore, of course this is my own opinion. our batches are looking pretty identical except i tossed in 1spiral in instead or chips, do you intend on transfering the chips to your carboy for the next steps, or should we remove the oak after the SG drops to<1.000? any suggestions as this is my 1st attemt at oaking anything ive made.




The berries I bought were frozen and ready to use. I will not be transferring the oak over to the secondary. I think 1 cup per 6 gallons is plenty. I wouldn't want to over do it with this one. My wife won't be happy if this doesn't turn out.


----------



## Ctmaro

calvin said:


> The berries I bought were frozen and ready to use. I will not be transferring the oak over to the secondary. I think 1 cup per 6 gallons is plenty. I wouldn't want to over do it with this one. My wife won't be happy if this doesn't turn out.



Hi guys!

Must be something in the air!

I just racked and sweetened my version of this. I used straight strawberry juice instead of margarita mix, and it fermented after adding sorbate and Kmeta. All and all it tastes pretty good so far.

I have transferred the oak, after rinsing, each racking. I have some "Perry" (pear cider) going that I just took off of oak chips after 1 month and the flavor is just right. so I figure, about a month total time in the strawberry.

Mark


----------



## Ctmaro

Ctmaro said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Must be something in the air!
> 
> I just racked and sweetened my version of this. I used straight strawberry juice instead of margarita mix, and it fermented after adding sorbate and Kmeta. All and all it tastes pretty good so far.
> 
> I have transferred the oak, after rinsing, each racking. I have some "Perry" (pear cider) going that I just took off of oak chips after 1 month and the flavor is just right. so I figure, about a month total time in the strawberry.
> 
> Mark



PS - My Strawberry are from Costco, frozen, $1.67 per #.


----------



## Dana355

We have never used oak chip what kind of flavor does that give


----------



## cheesehead

Dana355 said:


> We have never used oak chip what kind of flavor does that give


 PINE! Just kidding, OAK! it depends on how long the oak is left in the must. some prefer a light oak taste and the longer its left in- the stronger it will taste of oak, also it can be a toasted oak taste or plain oaky barrel taste. try some in water or a spare bottle of wine and experiment 1st on durations , it helps a little bit before wrecking a whole batch if your not happy with it.


----------



## maurtis

A question about using oak powder, why powder vs chips or spirals? And what qualities of the untoasted nature are you looking for with the DB recipe?

My closest LHBS only had chips so I picked up a small bag. Without thinking, it was a light toast instead of untoasted.

As a winemaking n00b I am hesitant to use the light toasted chips vs untoasted powder, but the experimenter in me just wants to give it a go. So wondering, Dave, if you could expand on your choice of untoasted powder and what it brings to the recipe?

Thanks!


----------



## JSquared

Question guys, I have read that some of you use Sparkolloid and some use Super Kleer for clearing up your DB, I'm wondering which you've had more success with. I have Sparkolloid on hand but have a small amount of cloudy floaters in the last batch of wine I bottled. I can't buy Super Kleer local, should I pursue ordering it?


----------



## calvin

JSquared said:


> Question guys, I have read that some of you use Sparkolloid and some use Super Kleer for clearing up your DB, I'm wondering which you've had more success with. I have Sparkolloid on hand but have a small amount of cloudy floaters in the last batch of wine I bottled. I can't buy Super Kleer local, should I pursue ordering it?




I prefer superclear. But sparkloid works fine. It just requires longer aging in the carboy to prevent that whispy sedinent


----------



## maurtis

Agreed, I have had good luck with both but Super-Kleer seems to work faster and the sediment less fluffy. I keep my original bag of Sparkolloid around for when I am out.


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> Question guys, I have read that some of you use Sparkolloid and some use Super Kleer for clearing up your DB, I'm wondering which you've had more success with. I have Sparkolloid on hand but have a small amount of cloudy floaters in the last batch of wine I bottled. I can't buy Super Kleer local, should I pursue ordering it?



I started with Sparklloid but only use SuperKleer now. Sparklloid is very hard to get rid of the whispys. Your wine will be crystal clear when bottling, then develop those whispys 2-3 months down the road. 
Don't have that problem with SuperKleer. It also compacts the lees much tighter.


----------



## cheesehead

HELP!!! Has anyone made Daves Strawberry tart recipe and had a batch fire back up after racking to secondary? This morning I added 1/4 tsp k-meta, 3 1/2 tsp sorbate due to adding 108 oz of daquiri mix instead of 96oz to the primary , degassed, and finished up with super-kleer then racked to a 6 & 1 gal carboy. when I woke up tonite Both carboys were foaming through the air locks and roiling pretty good. This is the 1st time this has happened to me out of 20+ batches-- SG started at 1.090 dried to .992 temps at 74 degrees, has it started fermenting again? , should i add more sorbate to kill the process? Just never saw this much activity in carboys before, Thanx Loddie


----------



## cheesehead

Also , Daves strawberry recipe calls for the addition of chems and daiquiri mix after aprox 6-7 days but is that into the primary then mixed up and racked to carboys or add ingredients while in carboys, ( i have his strawberry recipe and dragons blood recipe side by side and the strawberry recipe omits a racking). i did it all in the primary the racked to carboys)


----------



## wineforfun

cheesehead said:


> HELP!!! Has anyone made Daves Strawberry tart recipe and had a batch fire back up after racking to secondary? This morning I added 1/4 tsp k-meta, 3 1/2 tsp sorbate due to adding 108 oz of daquiri mix instead of 96oz to the primary , degassed, and finished up with super-kleer then racked to a 6 & 1 gal carboy. when I woke up tonite Both carboys were foaming through the air locks and roiling pretty good. This is the 1st time this has happened to me out of 20+ batches-- SG started at 1.090 dried to .992 temps at 74 degrees, has it started fermenting again? , should i add more sorbate to kill the process? Just never saw this much activity in carboys before, Thanx Loddie



Just going to make a guess that it may have re-fermented a little again. I assume there is some sugar in that daquiri mix. You may have still had some residual yeast you racked over from primary to secondary. 
Also, I never add sorbate until my wine is clear.


----------



## sour_grapes

Another possibility is that your sorbate was old?


----------



## cheesehead

Thanx guys, i too have recalled adding it after a clearing, and back-sweetening , sorbate was just bought but that doesn't mean it wasn't on the shelf awhile. it seems to have simmered a bit but it is quite active and still foaming up to the bung with a tinge of foam making it into the airlock but it isn't pouring out of the top anymore, just removed about 3/4 " of liquid and foam to make a little more room to do its magic , hopefully i can sleep knowing that it should be OK just a little hot to start


----------



## willie

cheesehead said:


> Thanx guys, i too have recalled adding it after a clearing, and back-sweetening , sorbate was just bought but that doesn't mean it wasn't on the shelf awhile. it seems to have simmered a bit but it is quite active and still foaming up to the bung with a tinge of foam making it into the airlock but it isn't pouring out of the top anymore, just removed about 3/4 " of liquid and foam to make a little more room to do its magic , hopefully i can sleep knowing that it should be OK just a little hot to start[/QUOTE
> 
> The process that you are going by is correct as per Danger Dave's recipe. I am thinking maybe the wine needed to go to dry a little longer and or you needed to give the wine a little more room at the top of the carboy. Anyway's I am glad you brought this up. I will keep it in mind when I do the first rack in the next few days of our batch of S.S.Tart. It is our first batch of this Strawberry also.
> 
> Will


----------



## Johngottshall

Can someone please tell me what post # the tart strawberry recipe is on going to try this out thanks in advance


----------



## Ctmaro

Johngottshall said:


> Can someone please tell me what post # the tart strawberry recipe is on going to try this out thanks in advance



Don't remember the post number, but I found and copied it.

Sweet Strawberry Tart
5/31/14 - To a 7 gallon fermenter, I added...
20 cups of granulater sugar, 
1 cup medium toasted French oak, 
3 tsp yeast nutrient, 
1 tsp yeast energizer, 
3 tsp pectic enzyme, 
1 tsp wine tannin, 
96oz of Real Lemon Juice, 
and water up to 5 gallons. 
Stirred vigorously until all was dissolved and well mixed. Attached brew belt for warmth. SG = 1.085. 
Added 15 lbs of thawed frozen strawberries in two mesh bags. 
Total volume came out a little over 6 gallons. Squeezed and stirred every day per DB recipe. Notes: I used more lemon juice than I normally do in my DB recipe because I wanted the final product to be nice and tart.

6/1/14 - Pitched 71B-1122 yeast.

6/7/14 - SG = 0.992. Added 1/4 tsp sulphite, 3 tsp sorbate, and 96oz ("Big Bucket") Strawberry Daiquiri Mix. Topped up with about 750ml original Dragon Blood. Added Super Klear

6/23/14 - Racked. After tasting, added 4 cups of sugar and 2oz Watkins Strawberry Extract. Added two drops of red food coloring. Note: I wanted a fuller strawberry flavor than I got with the fruit and mix, thus the added extract. I also wanted a deeper hue of pinkish-red, so added a little bit of color.

6/30/14 - Racked, filtered, and bottled, only to watch most of it disappear over 4th of July weekend.


Mark


----------



## Johngottshall

Ctmaro said:


> Don't remember the post number, but I found and copied it.
> 
> Sweet Strawberry Tart
> 5/31/14 - To a 7 gallon fermenter, I added...
> 20 cups of granulater sugar,
> 1 cup medium toasted French oak,
> 3 tsp yeast nutrient,
> 1 tsp yeast energizer,
> 3 tsp pectic enzyme,
> 1 tsp wine tannin,
> 96oz of Real Lemon Juice,
> and water up to 5 gallons.
> Stirred vigorously until all was dissolved and well mixed. Attached brew belt for warmth. SG = 1.085.
> Added 15 lbs of thawed frozen strawberries in two mesh bags.
> Total volume came out a little over 6 gallons. Squeezed and stirred every day per DB recipe. Notes: I used more lemon juice than I normally do in my DB recipe because I wanted the final product to be nice and tart.
> 
> 6/1/14 - Pitched 71B-1122 yeast.
> 
> 6/7/14 - SG = 0.992. Added 1/4 tsp sulphite, 3 tsp sorbate, and 96oz ("Big Bucket") Strawberry Daiquiri Mix. Topped up with about 750ml original Dragon Blood. Added Super Klear
> 
> 6/23/14 - Racked. After tasting, added 4 cups of sugar and 2oz Watkins Strawberry Extract. Added two drops of red food coloring. Note: I wanted a fuller strawberry flavor than I got with the fruit and mix, thus the added extract. I also wanted a deeper hue of pinkish-red, so added a little bit of color.
> 
> 6/30/14 - Racked, filtered, and bottled, only to watch most of it disappear over 4th of July weekend.
> 
> 
> Mark



Thanks going to try this over the weekend


----------



## Johngottshall

Ctmaro said:


> Don't remember the post number, but I found and copied it.
> 
> Sweet Strawberry Tart
> 5/31/14 - To a 7 gallon fermenter, I added...
> 20 cups of granulater sugar,
> 1 cup medium toasted French oak,
> 3 tsp yeast nutrient,
> 1 tsp yeast energizer,
> 3 tsp pectic enzyme,
> 1 tsp wine tannin,
> 96oz of Real Lemon Juice,
> and water up to 5 gallons.
> Stirred vigorously until all was dissolved and well mixed. Attached brew belt for warmth. SG = 1.085.
> Added 15 lbs of thawed frozen strawberries in two mesh bags.
> Total volume came out a little over 6 gallons. Squeezed and stirred every day per DB recipe. Notes: I used more lemon juice than I normally do in my DB recipe because I wanted the final product to be nice and tart.
> 
> 6/1/14 - Pitched 71B-1122 yeast.
> 
> 6/7/14 - SG = 0.992. Added 1/4 tsp sulphite, 3 tsp sorbate, and 96oz ("Big Bucket") Strawberry Daiquiri Mix. Topped up with about 750ml original Dragon Blood. Added Super Klear
> 
> 6/23/14 - Racked. After tasting, added 4 cups of sugar and 2oz Watkins Strawberry Extract. Added two drops of red food coloring. Note: I wanted a fuller strawberry flavor than I got with the fruit and mix, thus the added extract. I also wanted a deeper hue of pinkish-red, so added a little bit of color.
> 
> 6/30/14 - Racked, filtered, and bottled, only to watch most of it disappear over 4th of July weekend.
> 
> 
> Mark



Thanks trying this over the weekend


----------



## wineforfun

The change I would make to the recipe(as I have done with all my DB variations) is to wait until the wine is cleared, then add the sorbate and backsweeten.


----------



## PittGrad

Curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've just started first batch of this last evening. 

But as my personal tastes tend toward the big dry reds, I'm curious to know if anyone has dried this out and left it dry?? Do you really have to back sweeten?


----------



## freqflyer

PittGrad said:


> Curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've just started first batch of this last evening.
> 
> But as my personal tastes tend toward the big dry reds, I'm curious to know if anyone has dried this out and left it dry?? Do you really have to back sweeten?



It's pretty Tart. A good portion of the back sweetening is to help combat all of the lemon juice. I have found I like it better when I use half of the lemon juice called for in the recipe. I have also made Dragonette which is quite good.


----------



## PittGrad

Yeah I intentionally cut the lemon juice back to 32 oz. Guess I'll just taste come bottling time and let that be my guide.


----------



## bkisel

PittGrad said:


> Curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've just started first batch of this last evening.
> 
> But as my personal tastes tend toward the big dry reds, I'm curious to know if anyone has dried this out and left it dry?? Do you really have to back sweeten?



What the previous to members posted and... Consider that your taste may prefer drinking DB at room temperature as opposed to chilled. 

This is a change from my first experiences with DB but I'm now finding that this winter I'm actually enjoying my DB room temperature as opposed to refrigerator chilled. Could be something about the 2' of snow around the house that is influencing my preferences?


----------



## SwampDog35

It's almost Strawberry season here in Louisiana. I am wondering with the Sweet Strawberry Tart, Do you have to use the Strawberry Daiquiri Mix? I would rather follow the original DB recipe. And at the end add the Strawberry Extract and some French Oak.

Would that be okay? Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## willie

SwampDog35 said:


> It's almost Strawberry season here in Louisiana. I am wondering with the Sweet Strawberry Tart, Do you have to use the Strawberry Daiquiri Mix? I would rather follow the original DB recipe. And at the end add the Strawberry Extract and some French Oak.
> 
> Would that be okay? Thanks in advance for your help.



Hey SwanpDog, of coarse that would be ok. That is the beauty and fun of Danger Dave's Dragon Blood recipe is to have fun with it in any way you want. Right now I am fermenting a first batch of this and following Dave's recipe 100%. Dave, didn't receive a 1st place for this recipe for any other reason but it is awesome. So i want to taste some of this awesomeness this Spring and I know by the other posts we are not the only ones. Good luck to you. 

Will


----------



## cheesehead

So reverting back to my original problem of re-fermenting or not, As I indicated before , the batch of strawberry has cooled down to a low boil and has stopped foaming thru the airlock. 
My next question is - Should I add More Sorbate when its time for back-sweetening or let it ride as per Daves recipes ( dragons blood & strawberry) which called for it prior to the back-sweetening stage---SURVEY SAYS???


----------



## JetJockey

What is the SG now and how long has it been there?


----------



## cheesehead

Hi Jet, SG is at .998 for 2 days now after adding daiquiri mix, K-meta and sorbate. Was fermented to .992 for 24hours with no activity when all was added degassed and racked to carboys


----------



## Johngottshall

Started my strawberry version today will pitch the yeast tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## JetJockey

Cheese, I would wait to see if SG drops more. Looks like you had another fermentation. I like to check SG every day and once it hits bottom. I wait another 3 days toke sure it's stable before proceeding.


----------



## JSquared

What size fermenter bucket do you guys use for your 6 gallon batch of DB?


----------



## cintipam

Cheesehead, I don't make DB, but for regular wine adding more sorbate is a no no. More than the normal usage adds a bubblegum flavor. But in reg winemaking they say to not sorbate till wine is clear. Sooo, just saying what the norm is. With DB, maybe a bubblegum flavor is a good thing.

Pam in cinti


----------



## cheesehead

Pam, thanx for the reply! I am all on board with the sorbate after clearing, i just wanted to follow Daves Winning recipe to the "T" and ran into this problem. Right now its still at .998 for the 3rd day and still foaming slightly into airlock but not out of it. so i guess i will wait and see what happens.
I do have another question regarding re-fermenting, when this occurs does the final ABV change? I started at 1.090 and dried out to .992 then added the daiquiri mix , sorbate and kmeta. SG went to .998 , Assuming it all goes well , i was shooting for 12.5-13% ABV


----------



## vernsgal

when I add fpaks to my wines I do the math of my starting and finishing before adding fpak.So my math says you're in your target area at about 12.8. The ABV you get at the end(after adding the daiquiri mix ) will let you know how sweet or dry it is. There is a math equation you can do called "simple weighted average" if you wanted to do the math for the exact ABV but you would need the SG and amount of the daiquiri mix


----------



## Val_Capone

I have a large can of pineapple that needs to get used up and I was thinking a dB might be a good use for it....I have never made it before though so I was wondering could I do straight pineapple or should I add other fruit to it?


----------



## gaboy

Pineapple in DB is VERY Acid, and hard to clear!


----------



## wineforfun

Val_Capone said:


> I have a large can of pineapple that needs to get used up and I was thinking a dB might be a good use for it....I have never made it before though so I was wondering could I do straight pineapple or should I add other fruit to it?



Do a search in the DB thread for "Tropical Daze". It uses pineapple, mango, strawberry, if I remember correctly. It turns out pretty nice. I did one a couple of years ago and substituted lime juice for the lemon juice.


----------



## Ctmaro

Val_Capone said:


> I have a large can of pineapple that needs to get used up and I was thinking a dB might be a good use for it....I have never made it before though so I was wondering could I do straight pineapple or should I add other fruit to it?



I have actually thought about a straight pineapple DB also. The question is how much pineapple?

Mark


----------



## Val_Capone

I was thinking of doing mango in with it too but I have only ever made one batch of wine from a kit (which I just bottled yesterday lol) so I'm a little nervous to stray from the kits but also really excited to and I don't want to spend a whole lot if I don't have to just in case. The can of pineapple I have is the giant Costco sized one and is approaching it's expiration date at the end of the year and I would hate to have to turf it


----------



## Val_Capone

gaboy said:


> Pineapple in DB is VERY Acid, and hard to clear!



If it's very acid in the DB should I cut down on the citrus juice? Sorry for the noob questions I've only been making wine for a month


----------



## wineforfun

Val_Capone said:


> I was thinking of doing mango in with it too but I have only ever made one batch of wine from a kit (which I just bottled yesterday lol) so I'm a little nervous to stray from the kits but also really excited to and I don't want to spend a whole lot if I don't have to just in case. The can of pineapple I have is the giant Costco sized one and is approaching it's expiration date at the end of the year and I would hate to have to turf it



Val,
Trust me, if you follow the dragon blood directions as written, you will be just fine. I had only been making wine for a few months when I first made some. I have only made two kits since I started making wine as I like to experiment with things.
I would make the DB with the triple berry to start with and then branch off to other fruits and maybe lime juice instead of lemon juice and maybe oak and maybe............possiblities are endless.


----------



## gaboy

Val_Capone said:


> If it's very acid in the DB should I cut down on the citrus juice? Sorry for the noob questions I've only been making wine for a month



Check ph level in primary, should be 3.3 - 3.6 and you'll be fine!!


----------



## Val_Capone

Awesome thanks


----------



## cdevrard

Hey All, 

I've got a blueberry batch going on right now. It has been a real slow fermenter. 1 month as of tomorrow. From an initial SG of 1.088 it is down to 1.003. I like the sweetness of it at this point. 

Can I arrest further fermentation by sulfiting and adding my clearing agent at this point?

Thanks

CE


----------



## maurtis

If you want to stop fermentation, sorbate will do it. Pretty sure k-meta will not. You will want to add a little k-meta as well, but sorbate to stop the fermentation.


----------



## sour_grapes

Actually, you are unlikely to be able to stop this even with sorbate. You will likely need to let it go dry, then rack, clear, add sorbate and sulfite, then backsweeten.


----------



## cdevrard

Thanks guys. I've never had been able to stop a ferment with Sorbate, only keep one from restarting. 

Was just wondering if k-meta would do it. If I got an enthusiastic YES I thought I'd try it. Guess I'll just let it slug along until the end and back sweeten. No big deal was just getting tired of waiting for it to finish! I have a cherry batch to start!!

Thanks


----------



## wineforfun

Pretty sure the only way to stop the ferment would be to fortify it with some sort of liquor.


----------



## JetJockey

One way to stop the fermentation is to, as quickly as possible drop the temperature several degrees below that in which the yeast strain can survive and keep it there. The yeast packet or website will provide the temperature range for the yeast.


----------



## JetJockey

If I remember correctly, sorbate slows or keeps the year colony from growing, i.e. multiplying. It doesn't kill the yeast. The remaining yeast continue to convert the sugar to alcohol, albeit at a much slower rate.


----------



## maurtis

After doing some reading online, you guys are right as usual. K-meta and sorbate together make an inhospitable environment for yeast to reproduce and can help prevent re-fermentation, but cannot stop an active fermentation. But I found this warning concerning:

"Lastly, and most importantly, paper or cloths that have absorbed potassium sorbate may spontaneously ignite! So be very careful when cleaning up sorbate spills in your wine making area."


----------



## sour_grapes

maurtis said:


> But I found this warning concerning:
> 
> "Lastly, and most importantly, paper or cloths that have absorbed potassium sorbate may spontaneously ignite! So be very careful when cleaning up sorbate spills in your wine making area."



Wow, that is news to me!


----------



## willie

UPDATE- I completed the 1st rack of our Sweet Strawberry Tart yesterday after 3 days of SG readings of .992. I was lucky that I didn't have to top it off. In fact I wasn't able to quite put in all the Daily's Strawberry mix that, Dave has in his recipe so I will add the rest when I back sweeten. I have a batch of Tropical Blood that we will be bottling probably this Sat. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

Update, my first batch of Original Dragon Blood has finally dropped below 1.0 SG, I'm now waiting for 3 days with the same reading to rack. I have a question, do more of you rack to a carboy to degas or to a second bucket to degas and then move to a carboy? I'm going to be degassing with a wand on a drill. The reason I ask is, I will need to purchase another bucket if I rack to a bucket if I go that route. Thanks for any advise, I'm such a noob still!


----------



## willie

JSquared said:


> Update, my first batch of Original Dragon Blood has finally dropped below 1.0 SG, I'm now waiting for 3 days with the same reading to rack. I have a question, do more of you rack to a carboy to degas or to a second bucket to degas and then move to a carboy? I'm going to be degassing with a wand on a drill. The reason I ask is, I will need to purchase another bucket if I rack to a bucket if I go that route. Thanks for any advise, I'm such a noob still!



JSquared, I just rack to a carboy add chems. and Degas real good so your clearing chem. works. Your really going to enjoy your DB. As soon as you have your bucket empty you should start planning starting another batch of what ever you want very soon. This great recipe is to make fast and drink fast. It will taste the best between 2-6 months old. Good luck and enjoy. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

willie said:


> JSquared, I just rack to a carboy add chems. and Degas real good so your clearing chem. works. Your really going to enjoy your DB. As soon as you have your bucket empty you should start planning starting another batch of what ever you want very soon. This great recipe is to make fast and drink fast. It will taste the best between 2-6 months old. Good luck and enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> Will




Thanks, I'll move it to my carboy and degas there! I'm thinking of either trying the tropical or the strawberry tart next. With so many variations, it's hard to decide and they all sound fabulous!


----------



## bkisel

JSquared said:


> ... I have a question, do more of you rack to a carboy to degas or to a second bucket to degas and then move to a carboy? I'm going to be degassing with a wand on a drill. The reason I ask is, I will need to purchase another bucket if I rack to a bucket if I go that route. Thanks for any advise, I'm such a noob still!



My glass 23L/6 gal. Italian carboys are more like 6.5 gal. When I transfer to the carboy the wine generally comes up to the shoulder leaving nice head space for degassing etc.. After 2-4 days [not topped off at this point] most of what is going to settle early has done so and I rack to one of my plastic carboys to get the wine of the sediment and to begin bulk aging.

If I did not have the over capacity glass carboys I would rack to another bucket, do my stuff there and then rack again into one of my 6 gal. plastic carboys.


----------



## JetJockey

Just be careful with the stirring! You can cause a volcano if there's a lot of CO2. I rack half and vigorously stir, then add 1/4 more and stir again. When the gas is out, I add the rest and stir again. The CO2 comes out easier in warm wine than cold.


----------



## JSquared

Another noob question, how can you tell when all the CO2 is gone? I've been really stirring it twice a day and it has foamed a lot but how do you tell the difference between the gases and just bubbles from mixing? Thanks again, y'all are so helpful!!


----------



## maurtis

The bubbles from dissolved CO2 created during fermentation will be very small, bubbles from mixing will be much larger and come out pretty soon after you stop stirring.

And once you get to the end of fermentation you should see a lot less foaming.


----------



## JetJockey

I fill a big shot glass about 3/4 full and cover with my hand. I shake vigorously and slowly take my hand away while listening closely. If there is CO2, you will hear it escape or puff. Called a puff test. The benefit is you have to drink the shot when done. ;-)


----------



## dangerdave

If you stir it well during primary fermentation as instructed, you'll drive off a lot of CO2 that will make it much easier to degas later. When I started making wine, I stirred once...then got a vacuum pump. Now, there's no question about the gas. Apply pump. No bubbles = no gas.


----------



## homesteader26

Agree with JetJockey 3 days below 0.996 before adding k-meta, sorbate and degassing then clear and a week wait before adding any additional sugar back. It works great - patience is key.


----------



## gaboy

Can a BREW BELT be used on plactic BETTER Bottles without damage to the carboy?


----------



## willie

gaboy said:


> Can a BREW BELT be used on plactic BETTER Bottles without damage to the carboy?



I have a brew belt on one of my plastic carboys as I type. No problems here. If it gets too warm just put an insulating object between belt and carboy. I like to have temp. around 75 degrees. 

Will


----------



## gaboy

Willie,THANKS for the info!!


----------



## robert81650

Thanks Dave for the post and recipe......gonna try soon.


----------



## cheesehead

dangerdave said:


> If you stir it well during primary fermentation as instructed, you'll drive off a lot of CO2 that will make it much easier to degas later. When I started making wine, I stirred once...then got a vacuum pump. Now, there's no question about the gas. Apply pump. No bubbles = no gas.


 Dave, did you run into any issues with your strawberry recipe clearing? Ive hit mine with 2 doses of superkleer and added an additional partial dose of pectic enzyme to get it to clear and it looks like i am going to have to rack it a few more times to get it of the lees. I should technically be bottling it this week but thats a definite nogo as it isnt near as clear prior to filtering as it should be. I did add 2 bottles (58.6 oz) of real fruit daiquiri mix so that was a bit more than your 96oz's and that may have initiated a referment early on but no activity now for 8 days SG is .990 just extremely cloudy but smells great in the house and even tastes good prior to backsweetening also have racked 4 additional times to degass, any suggestions master? lol


----------



## calvin

I would try a full extra dose of pectic enzyme. I had the same problem with my first batch. My second batch I used double the pectic enzyme in the primary and it cleared really fast. Also make sure it is degassed.


----------



## dangerdave

cheesehead said:


> Dave, did you run into any issues with your strawberry recipe clearing? Ive hit mine with 2 doses of superkleer and added an additional partial dose of pectic enzyme to get it to clear and it looks like i am going to have to rack it a few more times to get it of the lees. I should technically be bottling it this week but thats a definite nogo as it isnt near as clear prior to filtering as it should be. I did add 2 bottles (58.6 oz) of real fruit daiquiri mix so that was a bit more than your 96oz's and that may have initiated a referment early on but no activity now for 8 days SG is .990 just extremely cloudy but smells great in the house and even tastes good prior to backsweetening also have racked 4 additional times to degass, any suggestions master? lol


 
Strawberry has always been problematic for me. In the end, you'll just have to let it sit and clear. Mine took close to a month and several rackings until I thought it was clear enough to filter. I was wrong, and it took several filters (Vinbrite) to get it all through. If I had had the time, I would have left it sit for another month.


----------



## Johngottshall

dangerdave said:


> Strawberry has always been problematic for me. In the end, you'll just have to let it sit and clear. Mine took close to a month and several rackings until I thought it was clear enough to filter. I was wrong, and it took several filters (Vinbrite) to get it all through. If I had had the time, I would have left it sit for another month.



I thought it was just me I ran mine thru a filter on Saturday it took about 1 1/2 to get it filtered but still cloudy as hell OK just letting it sit for awhile


----------



## PittGrad

Just wrapping up my first batch of DB, and will be ready to bottle this coming weekend. Color beautiful, cleared beautifully--the only issue is that though it tastes nice and fruity up front, it has an unmistakable bitterness on the finish. ONLY deviation from the stock recipe was cutting lemon juice to just 32 oz. but there still seems to be that 'store bought, not fresh' lemon juice bitterness. 

I did back sweeten on the lighter side (little less than 3 cups total) but not sure i want to attempt to throw more sugar at this just to hide bitterness. 

Hoping others might have had similar very early taste, and can tell me that it will even out after couple months in the bottle?


----------



## cheesehead

Thanks to all who replied for the info , I will just let it clear on its own now, I dont want to add any more chemicals or agents that might affect the final taste. I was under the impression that this was a 30 day wine to bottle, but I see that it will take longer to clear. At this stage it needs to clear ALOT more before I even backsweeten and add the extract and food coloring. Better stock up on filters too (whole-house). Again thanks to all for giving me hope on this batch , secretly I thought this might be the 1st to be tossed out, WHEW!


----------



## willie

cheesehead said:


> Thanks to all who replied for the info , I will just let it clear on its own now, I dont want to add any more chemicals or agents that might affect the final taste. I was under the impression that this was a 30 day wine to bottle, but I see that it will take longer to clear. At this stage it needs to clear ALOT more before I even backsweeten and add the extract and food coloring. Better stock up on filters too (whole-house). Again thanks to all for giving me hope on this batch , secretly I thought this might be the 1st to be tossed out, WHEW!



Cheesehead, thanks for your posts on Dave's Strawberry. I also have the same problem. I have the carboy sitting with what looks to be about 1-2 inches of sediment on the bottom. I was thinking that when I start another batch I would add the strawberry mix into the nylon bag with the strawberries when starting the ferment instead of the carboy after 1st rack as I did this time. But right now with the present batch I will just let it sit for a few more days before I rack again and back sweeten. Just might take a month as, Dave has said to fully clear. 

Will


----------



## Ctmaro

Besides having clearing issues with strawberries, I have also had lots of gross lees. 

I am making a 10 gallon batch (2 strainer bags) of triple berry (Strawberry, Blueberry, & Blackberry), and not squeezing the bags to help prevent extra lees. I just stir and push the bags to the bottom 3 or 4 times a day.

I am now thinking of trying a "Second Wine" with the left-over fruit. I'm planning on mixing up a 3 gallons combination:

20 oz Lemon Juice
3 cn Wh. Grape Conc.
6 lb sugar (SG 1.09)
1/2 tsp tannin 
3 tsp yeast nutrient
3 t yeast energizer
1 t pectic emzyme
3 gal Water 

Then drop the 2 bags of fruit (12# originally) and the slurry into the new must.

Has anyone tried this? I have done this before with a mead must, and it worked pretty good.

Mark


----------



## maurtis

Ctmaro said:


> Besides having clearing issues with strawberries, I have also had lots of gross lees.
> 
> I am making a 10 gallon batch (2 strainer bags) of triple berry (Strawberry, Blueberry, & Blackberry), and not squeezing the bags to help prevent extra lees. I just stir and push the bags to the bottom 3 or 4 times a day.
> 
> I am now thinking of trying a "Second Wine" with the left-over fruit. I'm planning on mixing up a 3 gallons combination:
> 
> 20 oz Lemon Juice
> 3 cn Wh. Grape Conc.
> 6 lb sugar (SG 1.09)
> 1/2 tsp tannin
> 3 tsp yeast nutrient
> 3 t yeast energizer
> 1 t pectic emzyme
> 3 gal Water
> 
> Then drop the 2 bags of fruit (12# originally) and the slurry into the new must.
> 
> Has anyone tried this? I have done this before with a mead must, and it worked pretty good.
> 
> Mark



By not squeezing the bags, aren't you going to miss out on a lot of the fruit flavor? By the time I am done with my triple berry batch primary fermentation there is nothing left in the bags but purple mush, but the wine is nice and fruity.


----------



## wineforfun

Ctmaro said:


> Besides having clearing issues with strawberries, I have also had lots of gross lees.
> 
> I am making a 10 gallon batch (2 strainer bags) of triple berry (Strawberry, Blueberry, & Blackberry), and not squeezing the bags to help prevent extra lees. I just stir and push the bags to the bottom 3 or 4 times a day.
> 
> I am now thinking of trying a "Second Wine" with the left-over fruit. I'm planning on mixing up a 3 gallons combination:
> 
> 20 oz Lemon Juice
> 3 cn Wh. Grape Conc.
> 6 lb sugar (SG 1.09)
> 1/2 tsp tannin
> 3 tsp yeast nutrient
> 3 t yeast energizer
> 1 t pectic emzyme
> 3 gal Water
> 
> Then drop the 2 bags of fruit (12# originally) and the slurry into the new must.
> 
> Has anyone tried this? I have done this before with a mead must, and it worked pretty good.
> 
> Mark



If you are just making regular DB, which it appears you basically are, you will not have the lees problem those are having with the strawberry tart. I have made numerous batches of DB and never had any clearing issues.
As stated, you will want to be squeezing the bags to extract as much fruit juice/flavor as you can.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

cheesehead said:


> Thanks to all who replied for the info , I will just let it clear on its own now, I dont want to add any more chemicals or agents that might affect the final taste. I was under the impression that this was a 30 day wine to bottle, but I see that it will take longer to clear. At this stage it needs to clear ALOT more before I even backsweeten and add the extract and food coloring. Better stock up on filters too (whole-house). Again thanks to all for giving me hope on this batch , secretly I thought this might be the 1st to be tossed out, WHEW!



I had an elderberry-plum DB that would not clear despite 2 doses of SuperKleer and extra pectic enzyme at the onset. I finally ran it through my Vinbrite but it took about 3 filters to make it through and still didn't look clear. However, about 5 or so days after filtering, it suddenly dropped a ton of sediment and got crystal clear. I filtered it one more time for good measure and am now very pleased. Total time from start of ferment to in the bottle was 7-8 weeks. So moral of the story...it will eventually clear...and if you really need your DB quick, stick with the triple or quad berry version


----------



## maurtis

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> ...and if you really need your DB quick, stick with the triple or quad berry version



Yup, triple berry clears in no time, easily two weeks from start to clear. And it is gorgeous.


----------



## cheesehead

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I had an elderberry-plum DB that would not clear despite 2 doses of SuperKleer and extra pectic enzyme at the onset. I finally ran it through my Vinbrite but it took about 3 filters to make it through and still didn't look clear. However, about 5 or so days after filtering, it suddenly dropped a ton of sediment and got crystal clear. I filtered it one more time for good measure and am now very pleased. Total time from start of ferment to in the bottle was 7-8 weeks. So moral of the story...it will eventually clear...and if you really need your DB quick, stick with the triple or quad berry version


I totally agree with the triple berry clearing quickly, only the strawberry and tropical Daze that i made were /are late to clear, tropical had peach, mango, orange, pineapple , some strawberry , banana and took 2 doses of super clear with double pectic enzyme dose but eventually cleared enough to filter 1x with the whole house filter, currently my 6 gal batch of strawberry is now sitting on about 1-1/2" of sediment for the 3rd time, seems never-ending, lol, but will keep racking off and eventually i will get to the filtering phase


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I am actually glad this discussion is coming up about the strawberry because I am planning a batch of the Strawberry Tart for summer and now I know I need to start it early so it has some extra time to clear!


----------



## SwampDog35

We live in the New Orleans area and the big thing around here within the next month is Strawberry season. Can't wait to get some fresh ones and start with our "Strawberry Tart"


----------



## billyPre

Thanks everyone for all the excellent information. I started a batch of Dragons Blood last week and feel pretty confident it will turn out great. I've never done this before and had a question about the last step. 

Before bottling you add sugar to the carboy to back sweeten then wait a week. Even if the sugar is dissolved well, wont it settle to the bottom during this week. I'm thinking it would be similar to the cool-aide in the fridge that needs a stir before every serving. During this week I am sure sediment will drop also so I would be reluctant to stir before bottling. 

Yes that is pantyhose over my bucket. My SO is terrified of ants, and so the pantyhose was the only thing we could think of to allow air in but keep bugs out.

Thanks again, as soon as this is done fermenting we are going to start a batch of Skeeter Pee then Dave's Strawberry tart. Going to need some more bottles.


----------



## bkisel

billyPre said:


> Thanks everyone for all the excellent information. I started a batch of Dragons Blood last week and feel pretty confident it will turn out great. I've never done this before and had a question about the last step.
> 
> Before bottling you add sugar to the carboy to back sweeten then wait a week. Even if the sugar is dissolved well, wont it settle to the bottom during this week. I'm thinking it would be similar to the cool-aide in the fridge that needs a stir before every serving. During this week I am sure sediment will drop also so I would be reluctant to stir before bottling.
> 
> Yes that is pantyhose over my bucket. My SO is terrified of ants, and so the pantyhose was the only thing we could think of to allow air in but keep bugs out.
> 
> Thanks again, as soon as this is done fermenting we are going to start a batch of Skeeter Pee then Dave's Strawberry tart. Going to need some more bottles.



Welcome to the forum!

Congrats on your first batch of DB!

No the sugar, unless you used way to much for back sweetening, should have totally dissolved with your stirring when you added it and will not settle out. Also, many of us do some stirring of our wine just before bottling with no ill effect. This is normally to add 1/4 tsp of k-meta before bottling. It is a gentle stirring that does little if anything to introduce O2.


----------



## billyPre

bkisel said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> Congrats on your first batch of DB!
> 
> No the sugar, unless you used way to much for back sweetening, should have totally dissolved with your stirring when you added it and will not settle out. Also, many of us do some stirring of our wine just before bottling with no ill effect. This is normally to add 1/4 tsp of k-meta before bottling. It is a gentle stirring that does little if anything to introduce O2.



Thanks, I don't have a fancy filter i just wanted to try and get as much of the lees out as possible. This is my first batch and am wanting it as clear as possible.


----------



## stef57

Hey guys,
I've got my first 2 batches of DB in the books... The first was the original recipe and is in bottles, the 2nd is Strawberry and has been back sweetened but still in a carboy.
Although both batches turned out quite tasty, I would like them to have a bit more body.. Now I know that its to late for the one in bottles and that since I already sweetened the other, I'm pretty much limited to glycerin....

But for my future batches, is there a way to add body at the beginning or during the fermentation process? Or is it just a matter of doing an f-pack before adding the sugar?

Has anyone try adding raisins to the primary? I'm guessing that would add body, but how much to put in... 1lb or so??

Any other tricks of the trade out there??

Thanks for the help and guidance


----------



## bkisel

Some use the addition of bananas to add body to their thin wines. I've done it several times, using 2 sliced bananas in secondary, but never in a controlled test (e.g. same batch some with some without) so really don't know if it makes a big difference.

http://winemakermag.com/393-i-ve-read-you-can-use-bananas-to-give-body-to-thin-wines-can-you-please-explain-why-this-works-and-any-impact-on-flavor


----------



## maurtis

bkisel said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> Also, many of us do some stirring of our wine just before bottling with no ill effect. This is normally to add 1/4 tsp of k-meta before bottling. It is a gentle stirring that does little if anything to introduce O2.



You guys add more k-meta at bottling, along with the first dose when going into the secondary?

I have only been adding k-meta when going into the secondary.


----------



## maurtis

I have a question about bananas as well. I have searched and found so much varying information, clearly it is an art and not a science.

I have seen people suggest the following:

- Ripen bananas, freeze, thaw, slice with peel and all and put in primary
- Same as above but put in secondary
- Boil bananas down and use the fluid in the primary or secondary

I think my DB is fine as is, but I want to give my Mt. Dew wine another go and it could really use some body. It has flavor but is extremely thin. Jack Keller mentioned adding bananas in his blog, suggesting 2.5 lbs of bananas per gallon of wine, boiled down and added into the primary. That seems like a LOT of banana.


----------



## gaboy

Does anyone here have MUSCADINE vines? I just planted some 2 yr old plants and an looking for pointers?


----------



## bkisel

maurtis said:


> You guys add more k-meta at bottling, along with the first dose when going into the secondary?
> 
> I have only been adding k-meta when going into the secondary.



Sorry for the confusion...

With DB I do not! DB, mine anyways, gets bottled and consumed way to fast to be concerned with adding more k-meta. With my kits I will add and stir in an extra 1/4 tsp k-meta just before bottling.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

stef57 said:


> Hey guys,
> I've got my first 2 batches of DB in the books... The first was the original recipe and is in bottles, the 2nd is Strawberry and has been back sweetened but still in a carboy.
> Although both batches turned out quite tasty, I would like them to have a bit more body.. Now I know that its to late for the one in bottles and that since I already sweetened the other, I'm pretty much limited to glycerin....
> 
> But for my future batches, is there a way to add body at the beginning or during the fermentation process? Or is it just a matter of doing an f-pack before adding the sugar?
> 
> Has anyone try adding raisins to the primary? I'm guessing that would add body, but how much to put in... 1lb or so??
> 
> Any other tricks of the trade out there??
> 
> Thanks for the help and guidance



I add 1 pound of raisins, 2-3 bananas (frozen, then thawed) and a handful of oak chips to every batch of DB. I'm not a wine expert by any stretch of the imagination so I couldn't tell you if my batches have more body because of these additions...all I know is that they are great and everyone loves them


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

bkisel said:


> Sorry for the confusion...
> 
> With DB I do not! DB, mine anyways, gets bottled and consumed way to fast to be concerned with adding more k-meta. With my kits I will add and stir in an extra 1/4 tsp k-meta just before bottling.



So I have a Chocolate Strawberry wine that I started in August. I added k-meta at the end of fermentation and have also added it at one of the rackings (with the chocolate sediment dropping out, the Jack Keller recipe called for racking every couple months). If this were your wine, would you add more at bottling then?


----------



## wineforfun

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> If this were your wine, would you add more at bottling then?



Only if it was 2-3months since you last put some in.


----------



## mwulf67

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I add 1 pound of raisins, 2-3 bananas (frozen, then thawed) and a handful of oak chips to every batch of DB. I'm not a wine expert by any stretch of the imagination so I couldn't tell you if my batches have more body because of these additions...all I know is that they are great and everyone loves them



Are these just "regular" raisins, or golden raisin? Does it make any difference, that you are aware of?


----------



## bkisel

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> So I have a Chocolate Strawberry wine that I started in August. I added k-meta at the end of fermentation and have also added it at one of the rackings (with the chocolate sediment dropping out, the Jack Keller recipe called for racking every couple months). If this were your wine, would you add more at bottling then?



What D.J. posted above in answer to your question AND if the wine, some of it at least, was going to hang around for maybe 6 month or more - then, yes I would add 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons at bottling.


----------



## stef57

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I add 1 pound of raisins, 2-3 bananas (frozen, then thawed) and a handful of oak chips to every batch of DB. I'm not a wine expert by any stretch of the imagination so I couldn't tell you if my batches have more body because of these additions...all I know is that they are great and everyone loves them





bkisel said:


> Some use the addition of bananas to add body to their thin wines. I've done it several times, using 2 sliced bananas in secondary, but never in a controlled test (e.g. same batch some with some without) so really don't know if it makes a big difference.
> 
> http://winemakermag.com/393-i-ve-read-you-can-use-bananas-to-give-body-to-thin-wines-can-you-please-explain-why-this-works-and-any-impact-on-flavor



Thanks for that guys! Just so happened I had a few over rippened bananas on the counter. So I added 3 peeled chopped & mushed up to each of 2 different batches I started last weekend. (I didn't bother freezing them first though...)
They are both sitting at 15 Brix right now (started them at 18.6) so they are in very active fermentation... and added 160 gr of raisins to each. (cuz that's all I had on hand) Looking forward to the results

How about brown sugar? I recall reading somewhere that some people add it to beer to add some body. I imagine the same could be done with wine right? I so is it a 1 to 1 ratio compare to table sugar?
I'll try substituting about 1/3 of the white with brown sugar for my next batch and see what that does...


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

mwulf67 said:


> Are these just "regular" raisins, or golden raisin? Does it make any difference, that you are aware of?



I usually just use regular raisins because that's what I can get cheaply at Costco. I did have a recipe that called for using golden ones once though. I think the main difference would be (maybe?) the color it could add to your wine.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

stef57 said:


> Thanks for that guys! Just so happened I had a few over rippened bananas on the counter. So I added 3 peeled chopped & mushed up to each of 2 different batches I started last weekend. (I didn't bother freezing them first though...)
> They are both sitting at 15 Brix right now (started them at 18.6) so they are in very active fermentation... and added 160 gr of raisins to each. (cuz that's all I had on hand) Looking forward to the results
> 
> How about brown sugar? I recall reading somewhere that some people add it to beer to add some body. I imagine the same could be done with wine right? I so is it a 1 to 1 ratio compare to table sugar?
> I'll try substituting about 1/3 of the white with brown sugar for my next batch and see what that does...



I don't know about adding brown sugar. I think it would give your wine a very different flavor so if it were me, I would be cautious. It can compliment a beer because you might expect caramel type flavors with the malt but again, I don't know in wine. I suppose it would depend on the fruit you were using.


----------



## dangerdave

I've never used brown sugar either, although I've seen people who have. Not sure who it was...

I usually use red (dark) raisins when adding them to either a red wine or Dragon Blood. I commonly use golden raisins in my white wines with good results. I don't think you can go wrong with them. I need to try some golden rainins in my DB for comparison.


----------



## Ctmaro

When just wanting to add body to wine I prefer 100% white grape juice concentrate. It's cheaper than raisins and doesn't add any flavor to the wine like raisins and bananas.

I usually use 1 can frozen per gallon.

Mark


----------



## TomK-B

Started my first batch of DB a week ago yesterday(Friday, March 13). Since this is my first, I'm following the directions as written. My original SG was 1.082. Temp was 72*F. I used EC 1118 yeast.

I noticed that it seems to ferment differently than my kit or grape wines. There was not as much foaming, just a lot of sizzling and bubbling through the bag of berries. I took a SG reading yesterday and found it at 0.992. Wow! That was quick! I decided to let the sediment settle through today and I'll rack, stabilize and begin clearing tomorrow.

I'm happy about how this is looking and eager to taste the final result!


----------



## JSquared

For those of you that filter your wine, what size filters do you use with you DB? I got a filter for my birthday and thought I would try it on my DB.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Ctmaro said:


> When just wanting to add body to wine I prefer 100% white grape juice concentrate. It's cheaper than raisins and doesn't add any flavor to the wine like raisins and bananas.
> 
> I usually use 1 can frozen per gallon.
> 
> Mark



I have been adding white grape juice concentrate to the Island Mist kits that I am making to up the ABV, but I guess I didn't realize that it helps with body as well


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

JSquared said:


> For those of you that filter your wine, what size filters do you use with you DB? I got a filter for my birthday and thought I would try it on my DB.



I used the 1 Micron when I was filtering with a whole house filter.


----------



## mwulf67

Broken Hydro…

2nd batch of wine ever, 1st DB…

Slight modification to original BD recipe: only 32 oz of Lemon Juice and 10.5 lbs of fruit….Starting SC 1.74…everything seemed to be proceeding nicely…Primary is bucket with just a loose lid, no airlock possible….

Last reading I have is Day 6 (Friday, 3/20), @ 1.030…was unable to get to it Day 7, and on Day 8 (Sunday night, 3/22) broke my hydro just prior to reading…

Now it’s Monday morning on Day 9, and I am trying not to freak out….

Have ordered a new Hydro, but the soonest I will arrive it Wednesday…

I _have _to be nearing or in “Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000”…right??? 

I am not sure what I should do…do I hold tight until I get my new hydro, and if I do, do I still confirm a stable SC for three days? Or should rack it now and get it under a lock? Or what should I do? 

Any advice or reassurance would be greatly appreciated…

(Hope this ok to post here, debated here or Beginners forum)


----------



## gaboy

Many of us ferment to DRY in the primary with DB. Should be no problem until new hydrometer arrives. Check then, should by .990, then rack!


----------



## Johngottshall

With the Buon Vinofilter I use the #2 filter the mid.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

mwulf67 said:


> Broken Hydro…
> 
> 2nd batch of wine ever, 1st DB…
> 
> Slight modification to original BD recipe: only 32 oz of Lemon Juice and 10.5 lbs of fruit….Starting SC 1.74…everything seemed to be proceeding nicely…Primary is bucket with just a loose lid, no airlock possible….
> 
> Last reading I have is Day 6 (Friday, 3/20), @ 1.030…was unable to get to it Day 7, and on Day 8 (Sunday night, 3/22) broke my hydro just prior to reading…
> 
> Now it’s Monday morning on Day 9, and I am trying not to freak out….
> 
> Have ordered a new Hydro, but the soonest I will arrive it Wednesday…
> 
> I _have _to be nearing or in “Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000”…right???
> 
> I am not sure what I should do…do I hold tight until I get my new hydro, and if I do, do I still confirm a stable SC for three days? Or should rack it now and get it under a lock? Or what should I do?
> 
> Any advice or reassurance would be greatly appreciated…
> 
> (Hope this ok to post here, debated here or Beginners forum)



I agree with gaboy...just leave it in the primary until your new hydrometer comes and rack right away if it has fermented dry.

P.S. Be sure to check calibration on your new hydrometer. My last couple have not been quite right so I have to adjust my readings.


----------



## bkisel

mwulf67 said:


> Broken Hydro…
> 
> 2nd batch of wine ever, 1st DB…
> 
> Slight modification to original BD recipe: only 32 oz of Lemon Juice and 10.5 lbs of fruit….Starting SC 1.74…everything seemed to be proceeding nicely…Primary is bucket with just a loose lid, no airlock possible….
> 
> Last reading I have is Day 6 (Friday, 3/20), @ 1.030…was unable to get to it Day 7, and on Day 8 (Sunday night, 3/22) broke my hydro just prior to reading…
> 
> Now it’s Monday morning on Day 9, and I am trying not to freak out….
> 
> Have ordered a new Hydro, but the soonest I will arrive it Wednesday…
> 
> I _have _to be nearing or in “Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000”…right???
> 
> I am not sure what I should do…do I hold tight until I get my new hydro, and if I do, do I still confirm a stable SC for three days? Or should rack it now and get it under a lock? Or what should I do?
> 
> Any advice or reassurance would be greatly appreciated…
> 
> (Hope this ok to post here, debated here or Beginners forum)



Personally I would pull the fruit out after giving it one last squeeze. I'd then lock it down and wait about a week to take the next reading with the new hydrometer. If I got 0.998 or lower I'd move on to the next phase.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get a near unbreakable plastic hydrometer?


----------



## willie

gaboy said:


> Many of us ferment to DRY in the primary with DB. Should be no problem until new hydrometer arrives. Check then, should by .990, then rack!



+1 

Will


----------



## willie

mwulf67 said:


> Broken Hydro…
> 
> 2nd batch of wine ever, 1st DB…
> 
> Slight modification to original BD recipe: only 32 oz of Lemon Juice and 10.5 lbs of fruit….Starting SC 1.74…everything seemed to be proceeding nicely…Primary is bucket with just a loose lid, no airlock possible….
> 
> Last reading I have is Day 6 (Friday, 3/20), @ 1.030…was unable to get to it Day 7, and on Day 8 (Sunday night, 3/22) broke my hydro just prior to reading…
> 
> Now it’s Monday morning on Day 9, and I am trying not to freak out….
> 
> Have ordered a new Hydro, but the soonest I will arrive it Wednesday…
> 
> I _have _to be nearing or in “Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000”…right???
> 
> I am not sure what I should do…do I hold tight until I get my new hydro, and if I do, do I still confirm a stable SC for three days? Or should rack it now and get it under a lock? Or what should I do?
> 
> Any advice or reassurance would be greatly appreciated…
> 
> (Hope this ok to post here, debated here or Beginners forum)




Relax you will be just fine. A few extra days here and there will not hurt a bit. Take your time and just follow Dave's recipe and you will love this wine. I like to think of it as being very healthy too. 
I also use about 30oz of lemon juice in my batches.

Will


----------



## mwulf67

bkisel said:


> Personally I would pull the fruit out after giving it one last squeeze. I'd then lock it down and wait about a week to take the next reading with the new hydrometer. If I got 0.998 or lower I'd move on to the next phase.
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if we could get a near unbreakable plastic hydrometer?



Funny you say that…I didn’t say so, but I _did _pull the fruit this morning, after one last good squeeze…like I say, I have to be close or at that stage, figured it couldn’t hurt…


----------



## wineforfun

To all,
Remember to squeeze those bags with approx. 1 day lead time of racking to secondary or you will bring a ton of unwanted lees with you.


----------



## Ctmaro

I've found that the SG drops about .01 per day at this point.

Mark


----------



## maurtis

bkisel said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if we could get a near unbreakable plastic hydrometer?



Yes, but it would have to cost about $100 to make up for the lost profits from us constantly replacing broken hydrometers! LOL. So far I have only broken a hydrometer if I do not have a spare. Once I bought extras, none have broken (fingers crossed).


----------



## Jimyson

Got my first batch of DB in last night! Pitched some slurry of K1V-1116 that I just racked off. Also used a blend of strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries.


----------



## quiltertoo

*ready to bottle*

I started my mixed berry DB on 1/29. I racked to primary on 2/8. Added kmeta and potassium sorbate. Degassed and added super kleer. 2/22 racked off lees and added sugar and 3 cans mixed berry concentrate. 3/14 racked off lees again. The wine is now crystal clear and I am ready to bottle it. Do I need to add anything to the wine before bottling. I rinsed my bottles with kmeta and they are ready.

Mary Lou


----------



## Jimyson

You got to love pitching fresh slurry. I pitched about 6 hours ago and it's already rolling.


----------



## JSquared

quiltertoo said:


> I started my mixed berry DB on 1/29. I racked to primary on 2/8. Added kmeta and potassium sorbate. Degassed and added super kleer. 2/22 racked off lees and added sugar and 3 cans mixed berry concentrate. 3/14 racked off lees again. The wine is now crystal clear and I am ready to bottle it. Do I need to add anything to the wine before bottling. I rinsed my bottles with kmeta and they are ready.
> 
> 
> 
> Mary Lou




How much flavor does the mixed berry concentrate add to the Dragon Blood?


----------



## Winenoob66

your good to go Mary


----------



## quiltertoo

JSquared said:


> How much flavor does the mixed berry concentrate add to the Dragon Blood?



I think it added a little flavor and the sugar helped too. It doesn't taste as tart as before the additions. But if 3 cans of concentrate were added to 6 gallons of water there wouldn't be much flavor so I'm thinking it didn't add a lot of flavor. I don't have any before wine to compare it to. The wine tastes great so all is good. 

Mary Lou


----------



## Ctmaro

When I did my version of "Dave's Strawberry Tart," I made juice from 2# strawberries,and added before sweetening. It gave the wine a distinct strawberry flavor right up front. With my regular strawberry wine, you taste the strawberries on the end. I wonder if it's the same when you add concentrate?

Mark


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I was a little worried about my Sweet Strawberry Tart clearing after reading all of the comments but this is one day after adding SuperKleer! I did throw a bit of extra pectic enzyme in at the start and also added a product called Lallzyme C-Max...don't know if that was the difference but it is looking good so far


----------



## JSquared

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I was a little worried about my Sweet Strawberry Tart clearing after reading all of the comments but this is one day after adding SuperKleer! I did throw a bit of extra pectic enzyme in at the start and also added a product called Lallzyme C-Max...don't know if that was the difference but it is looking good so far




It looks great! It seems to be clearing nicely. I have the Sweet Strawberry Tart on my "to do" list of wines. Strawberry season is coming up here in the south!


----------



## cheesehead

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I was a little worried about my Sweet Strawberry Tart clearing after reading all of the comments but this is one day after adding SuperKleer! I did throw a bit of extra pectic enzyme in at the start and also added a product called Lallzyme C-Max...don't know if that was the difference but it is looking good so far


I am going on 8 weeks with my strawberry tart in the carboy and still not clearing or clearing very very very slowly. I racked and ran thru a 5 micron filter on sunday with very little lees on the bottom, this is after hitting it with a 3rd dose of clearing agent ( 2 super-kleer, 1 sparkalloid) and extra enzyme 2 weeks ago, smells great and tastes ok , very aromatic just not clearing- hope it wakes up and drops a ton cuz it still looks like fruit punch , anyone with suggestions plz feel free


----------



## JSquared

quiltertoo said:


> I started my mixed berry DB on 1/29. I racked to primary on 2/8. Added kmeta and potassium sorbate. Degassed and added super kleer. 2/22 racked off lees and added sugar and 3 cans mixed berry concentrate. 3/14 racked off lees again. The wine is now crystal clear and I am ready to bottle it. Do I need to add anything to the wine before bottling. I rinsed my bottles with kmeta and they are ready.
> 
> 
> 
> Mary Lou




I had an extra 1 gallon of regular DB waiting to be bottled and I added 1/2 of a 12 oz can of mixed berry concentrate last night to do a taste test. Both wines are sitting at 3 wks since they were finished. The regular DB has less aroma and more lemon taste up front. The DB w the berry concentrate has a slightly stronger berry taste but the lemon taste was masked someone. I think I'm going to add the concentrate to about 1/2 of my batch before bottling to give me a fruitier variate. Thanks for putting the idea out there!


----------



## JSquared

I bottled my first batch of Dragon Blood! The bottle labeled Dragon Blood Bold has a Fpack in it for added flavor so it's slightly darker in color! I'm really pleased with the Dragon Blood Bold. I'm hoping another week will mellow the original a little more but it is good as it sits.


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> View attachment 21514
> I bottled my first batch of Dragon Blood! The bottle labeled Dragon Blood Bold has a Fpack in it for added flavor so it's slightly darker in color! I'm really pleased with the Dragon Blood Bold. I'm hoping another week will mellow the original a little more but it is good as it sits.



Do you have a misprint on the regular label? March 2014?

Nice labels, I like the dragon.


----------



## dangerdave

Nice, JSquared, very nice!


----------



## willie

cheesehead said:


> I am going on 8 weeks with my strawberry tart in the carboy and still not clearing or clearing very very very slowly. I racked and ran thru a 5 micron filter on sunday with very little lees on the bottom, this is after hitting it with a 3rd dose of clearing agent ( 2 super-kleer, 1 sparkalloid) and extra enzyme 2 weeks ago, smells great and tastes ok , very aromatic just not clearing- hope it wakes up and drops a ton cuz it still looks like fruit punch , anyone with suggestions plz feel free



Our Strawberry Tart will be 7 wks. old this Friday. I used Super Kleer once and it did clear except the carboy had a bunch of lees on the bottom. Racked it again and sweetened it and now it's not clear after 6 days. So I guess for the next couple of weeks I will just wait to see if it clears again. I don't want to use any more Chems if I don't have to. This is my first time having a slow clearing experience. Keep us posted Cheesehead on how your batch is doing. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

wineforfun said:


> Do you have a misprint on the regular label? March 2014?
> 
> 
> 
> Nice labels, I like the dragon.




Oops! Yes, I didn't change the label from the previous one, good catch, I haven't printed the rest yet, I'll change it. My computer was giving me grief yesterday!


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> Oops! Yes, I didn't change the label from the previous one, good catch, I haven't printed the rest yet, I'll change it. My computer was giving me grief yesterday!



haha
No worries. Just my OCD.


----------



## JSquared

wineforfun said:


> haha
> 
> No worries. Just my OCD.




For the record, I have already changed the label because I couldn't handle it myself! Lol!


----------



## JSquared

I'm planning to start Strawberry Tart next, I've read a lot of people are having clearing problems, any help and advise from those that didn't have clearing problems? That way I can follow the leader!


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> For the record, I have already changed the label because I couldn't handle it myself! Lol!View attachment 21515



Thank you. I know for one, I will sleep much better tonight knowing the "DB label stars" are in better alignnment.


----------



## JSquared

I get donated bottles and I spend A LOT OF TIME making sure my bottles match for a batch of wine!


----------



## maurtis

dangerdave said:


> I use 1/3 cup of untaosted American oak powder per six gallon batch in the primary, and add 3 tsp additional wine tannin at stabilization time (when the sulphite and sobate are added).
> 
> It may seem like a heavy load of tannins (I'm still using 3 tsp tannin in the primary, also), but the Dragon Blood seems to handle it well, having a nice bold flavor up front.
> 
> Johnna loves it!



I brewed up a batch of triple berry DB using the extra 3 tsp of tannin in the secondary as specified. My local LHBS did not have any oak powder on hand so I went with 1 cup of chips instead.

Bottled a couple weeks ago and had a bottle last night, it was lovely. Seemed to have more berry flavor to me earlier than my last batch did, and I love the mouthfeel. It very well might just be placebo effect, but I am really liking the additions to the recipe. Hopefully my wife will agree as well, since this batch was made for her (backsweetened to 1.010 since she likes them sweet, hopefully the extra tannin helps with her fibro).


----------



## bkisel

JSquared said:


> For the record, I have already changed the label because I couldn't handle it myself! Lol!View attachment 21515



I get it! The J over the J = J "squared". I like the label.


----------



## JSquared

bkisel said:


> I get it! The J over the J = J "squared". I like the label.




My name is Jackie Jackson so I've gone by J Squared for random stuff for years. My daughter came up with the J over the J logo for me. I'm also a closet gamer and I go by J Squared when I'm gaming.


----------



## sour_grapes

JSquared said:


> Oops! Yes, I didn't change the label from the previous one, good catch, I haven't printed the rest yet, I'll change it. My computer was giving me grief yesterday!



Hey, this "mistake" wasn't related to the article, referenced below, that Jim Wordy cited the other day, was it?  



jswordy said:


> BTW, love the Hardy Rodenstock image. LOL.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...rgery_it_s_easy_to_do_and_hard_to_detect.html


----------



## cheesehead

willie said:


> Our Strawberry Tart will be 7 wks. old this Friday. I used Super Kleer once and it did clear except the carboy had a bunch of lees on the bottom. Racked it again and sweetened it and now it's not clear after 6 days. So I guess for the next couple of weeks I will just wait to see if it clears again. I don't want to use any more Chems if I don't have to. This is my first time having a slow clearing experience. Keep us posted Cheesehead on how your batch is doing.
> 
> Will


 This too is my 1st slow clearing batch, I will certainly keep you posted on the progress


----------



## reefman

Haven't paid much attention to this thread lately, and I want to make another batch. *What's the link to the current recipe?* I don't have time to read 299 pages.


----------



## wpt-me

I believe it is the first post on this thread. Good luck.

Bill


----------



## barbl72

JSquared said:


> View attachment 21514
> I bottled my first batch of Dragon Blood! The bottle labeled Dragon Blood Bold has a Fpack in it for added flavor so it's slightly darker in color! I'm really pleased with the Dragon Blood Bold. I'm hoping another week will mellow the original a little more but it is good as it sits.



What did you use as an FPack?


----------



## bkisel

wpt-me said:


> I believe it is the first post on this thread. Good luck.
> 
> Bill



Correct. The very first post of the thread.


----------



## barbl72

I spiced a batch of DB with cinnamon and cloves but it is too much. I added ginger to a bottle and it is really good. Now I have to open all my bottles to drop in a piece of candied ginger. My question is - can I re-use my corks or must I use new ones? Any thoughts?


----------



## wineforfun

barbl72 said:


> I spiced a batch of DB with cinnamon and cloves but it is too much. I added ginger to a bottle and it is really good. Now I have to open all my bottles to drop in a piece of candied ginger. My question is - can I re-use my corks or must I use new ones? Any thoughts?



I would recork with new as you are "punching a hole" in them when opening, unless you aren't going all the way through. Even so, I would recork with new just to be safe, especially if I was storing any of them for months at a time.


----------



## reefman

Thanks, I didn't know if Dave had tweaked it again


----------



## JSquared

barbl72 said:


> What did you use as an FPack?




I used a 12 oz can of mixed berry frozen juice concentrate per 2 gallons of wine. Someone else on here had done the same so I tried it on 1 gallon first to see how I liked it. It didn't cloud my wine at all and I was very pleased with the added flavor and aroma. It wasn't a lot but enough for me to add it to more of the batch.


----------



## TomK-B

This is my first batch of DB. I've been following the recipe as closely as possible. 12 days ago I transferred from primary into glass. SG had been at 0.992 for two days. I used my AIO wine pump to make the transfer so as to degas at the same time. Because of using this method, I decided to rack the wine twice to make sure it was thoroughly degassed. I added k-meta and sorbate per the recipe and used Sparkalloid for fining.

It has cleared nicely, but I keep seeing tiny little bubbles rising to the top. I even turned off the lights and shined a flashlight through to check if that's indeed what I was seeing. Sure enough, I've got several streams of tiny bubbles coming up from the bottom. And there is no movement in the airlock. I checked to make sure all was securely sealed. Sure enough, it is.

Is this unusual for DB? I'm reluctant to bottle while I'm still seeing this. I confess, I haven't read all 300 pages of this thread, so I may be raising something that's already gotten a lot of time.


----------



## Dominic1920

TomK-B said:


> This is my first batch of DB. I've been following the recipe as closely as possible. 12 days ago I transferred from primary into glass. SG had been at 0.992 for two days. I used my AIO wine pump to make the transfer so as to degas at the same time. Because of using this method, I decided to rack the wine twice to make sure it was thoroughly degassed. I added k-meta and sorbate per the recipe and used Sparkalloid for fining.
> 
> It has cleared nicely, but I keep seeing tiny little bubbles rising to the top. I even turned off the lights and shined a flashlight through to check if that's indeed what I was seeing. Sure enough, I've got several streams of tiny bubbles coming up from the bottom. And there is no movement in the airlock. I checked to make sure all was securely sealed. Sure enough, it is.
> 
> Is this unusual for DB? I'm reluctant to bottle while I'm still seeing this. I confess, I haven't read all 300 pages of this thread, so I may be raising something that's already gotten a lot of time.



I've noticed the same thing. A steady stream of tiny bubbles coming from the bottom even after degassing with a wine whip.


----------



## bkisel

reefman said:


> Thanks, I didn't know if Dave had tweaked it again



My guess is that Dave would keep that post updated. Must admit though that I downloaded and printed the PDF file some time ago, to reference while making my DB, and haven't checked to see if my hard copy is up to date. I'll try to remember to check for recipe changes next DB batch.


----------



## mwulf67

JSquared said:


> I used a 12 oz can of mixed berry frozen juice concentrate per 2 gallons of wine. Someone else on here had done the same so I tried it on 1 gallon first to see how I liked it. It didn't cloud my wine at all and I was very pleased with the added flavor and aroma. It wasn't a lot but enough for me to add it to more of the batch.



I saw that same OP and was planning on doing the same thing to my first batch of DB (2nd batch of wine ever)…glad to hear another favorable report… 

Quick question: did adding this concentrate alter the amount of sugar you planned or ended up adding? I would assume adding the concentrate would add some sweetness as well as favor/aroma?


----------



## billyPre

My first ever batch of Dave's Dragon Blood was racked to a 6 gallon carboy on 3/27/2015 after fermenting to .993. Unfortunately I got some of the gross lees over into the carboy as well, I don't think I need to worry about that...right? Anyhow I am ready to rack again, I think, and add sugar. My problem is I only have one carboy. 

1. Do I rack it to my bucket?

-Bottling from a bucket would make it hard to see any lees 
-Is there too much air space to let the wine sit in my 7 gallon bucket for a week or more before bottling?

2. Rack it to the bucket, add sugar, than rack it back to the carboy?

-This method would allow me to see what I am doing while bottling
-Is there any danger here of racking too many times?


----------



## wineforfun

billyPre said:


> My first ever batch of Dave's Dragon Blood was racked to a 6 gallon carboy on 3/27/2015 after fermenting to .993. Unfortunately I got some of the gross lees over into the carboy as well, I don't think I need to worry about that...right? Anyhow I am ready to rack again, I think, and add sugar. My problem is I only have one carboy.
> 
> 1. Do I rack it to my bucket?
> 
> -Bottling from a bucket would make it hard to see any lees
> -Is there too much air space to let the wine sit in my 7 gallon bucket for a week or more before bottling?
> 
> 2. Rack it to the bucket, add sugar, than rack it back to the carboy?
> 
> -This method would allow me to see what I am doing while bottling
> -Is there any danger here of racking too many times?




Rack to the primary bucket, if need be, clean out your carboy then get it back in there so you can add clearing agent, kmeta, etc.
When clear, add sorbate and sugar.


----------



## billyPre

thanks for the quick reply. I added the k-meta, sorbate and sparkaloid at the first racking. Just wanted to check in with the experts.


----------



## JSquared

mwulf67 said:


> I saw that same OP and was planning on doing the same thing to my first batch of DB (2nd batch of wine ever)…glad to hear another favorable report…
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question: did adding this concentrate alter the amount of sugar you planned or ended up adding? I would assume adding the concentrate would add some sweetness as well as favor/aroma?




I had already added 3/4 cup sugar per gallon and it did add a slight amount of extra sweetness but it wasn't too much. I do like sweet wines though! With the 3/4 cup sugar the wine still had some tartness from the lemon juice and the extra sweetness seemed to reduce the tartness.


----------



## TemperanceOwl

JSquared said:


> For the record, I have already changed the label because I couldn't handle it myself! Lol!View attachment 21515



Hey, I love your labels JSquared! That's a cool looking dragon!


----------



## Ctmaro

billyPre said:


> My first ever batch of Dave's Dragon Blood was racked to a 6 gallon carboy on 3/27/2015 after fermenting to .993. Unfortunately I got some of the gross lees over into the carboy as well, I don't think I need to worry about that...right? Anyhow I am ready to rack again, I think, and add sugar. My problem is I only have one carboy.
> 
> 1. Do I rack it to my bucket?
> 
> -Bottling from a bucket would make it hard to see any lees
> -Is there too much air space to let the wine sit in my 7 gallon bucket for a week or more before bottling?
> 
> 2. Rack it to the bucket, add sugar, than rack it back to the carboy?
> 
> -This method would allow me to see what I am doing while bottling
> -Is there any danger here of racking too many times?



I usually rack to the primary bucket, add everything, and then back to the "cleaned" carboy. I have found this helps degass the wine also (those tiny bubble coming from the bottom).

Mark


----------



## JSquared

Added my Dragon Blood to the wine rack today! I'm glad
It's starting to look full again!


----------



## billyPre

thanks Mark for the second opinion, I think that is exactly what I will do.


----------



## RighteousDrinker

*I just need someone to quickly review my calculations, please!*

I'm converting this recipe into a 1 gallon one, are my conversions right?

-1 bottle of lemon juice 48oz (Do i still use the whole bottle?)
- The recipe says "Water to about four gallons" what do i do here in my case?
-3.3 cups of sugar 1.075 SG
-1 tsp of tanin
-3 tsp yeast nutrient (I add just 1 tsp right?)
-1 tsp yeast energizer
-1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme
-He states "Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well" So in my case i would top it off with till i reach 1 gallon right?
-1 lb of Triple Berry Blend
-1 packet of yeast


----------



## Johngottshall

RighteousDrinker said:


> *I just need someone to quickly review my calculations, please!*
> 
> I'm converting this recipe into a 1 gallon one, are my conversions right?
> 
> -1 bottle of lemon juice 48oz (Do i still use the whole bottle?)
> - The recipe says "Water to about four gallons" what do i do here in my case?
> -3.3 cups of sugar 1.075 SG
> -1 tsp of tanin
> -3 tsp yeast nutrient (I add just 1 tsp right?)
> -1 tsp yeast energizer
> -1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme
> -He states "Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well" So in my case i would top it off with till i reach 1 gallon right?
> -1 lb of Triple Berry Blend
> -1 packet of yeast



I would use about a 1/4 of the bottle of lemon juice or less probably less


----------



## RighteousDrinker

*Thanks*



Johngottshall said:


> I would use about a 1/4 of the bottle of lemon juice or less probably less



Does the rest of my recipe look good? 
Sorry, i'm a first timer to this hobby!


----------



## maurtis

RighteousDrinker said:


> *I just need someone to quickly review my calculations, please!*
> 
> I'm converting this recipe into a 1 gallon one, are my conversions right?
> 
> -1 bottle of lemon juice 48oz (Do i still use the whole bottle?)
> - The recipe says "Water to about four gallons" what do i do here in my case?
> -3.3 cups of sugar 1.075 SG
> -1 tsp of tanin
> -3 tsp yeast nutrient (I add just 1 tsp right?)
> -1 tsp yeast energizer
> -1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme
> -He states "Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well" So in my case i would top it off with till i reach 1 gallon right?
> -1 lb of Triple Berry Blend
> -1 packet of yeast



I have to ask, why are you looking to only make a 1 gallon batch? Is it due to lack of a larger carboy? And are you still going to do the primary fermentation in a bucket? If not, how are you planning on squeezing the fruit/fruit bag?

If you are fermenting in a 1 gallon carboy with the fruit in there, I would think you would have to leave a good amount of headspace for the foam or use a blow off tube. And the loss of wine from the lees, fruit, and foam would leave you with at most 4 750ml bottles? Probably closer to 3 or 3.5.

If I were to do a smaller batch on a budget, I would cut the original recipe in half for a three gallon batch. Do the primary fermentation in a 5 gallon icing bucket (apparently bakeries give them away for free if you ask nicely), and secondary in three one gallon carboys if that is what you have. That way you still get at least 12 bottles of wine for your troubles.


----------



## wineforfun

RighteousDrinker said:


> *I just need someone to quickly review my calculations, please!*
> 
> I'm converting this recipe into a 1 gallon one, are my conversions right?
> 
> -1 bottle of lemon juice 48oz (Do i still use the whole bottle?)
> - The recipe says "Water to about four gallons" what do i do here in my case?
> -3.3 cups of sugar 1.075 SG
> -1 tsp of tanin
> -3 tsp yeast nutrient (I add just 1 tsp right?)
> -1 tsp yeast energizer
> -1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme
> -He states "Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well" So in my case i would top it off with till i reach 1 gallon right?
> -1 lb of Triple Berry Blend
> -1 packet of yeast



8oz of lemon juice
Water to 1 gal.+
Use your hydrometer and add enough sugar to get SG to 1.075-1.080
1 tsp. nutrient
Use 1-1.5lb. Triple Berry Blend(more fruit, more flavor)

Basically, you cut/divide the recipe by 6, or use the manufacture recommendation for the chemicals..............except for yeast, use the full packet.


----------



## Ctmaro

RighteousDrinker said:


> *I just need someone to quickly review my calculations, please!*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm converting this recipe into a 1 gallon one, are my conversions right?
> 
> 
> 
> -1 bottle of lemon juice 48oz (Do i still use the whole bottle?)
> 
> - The recipe says "Water to about four gallons" what do i do here in my case?
> 
> -3.3 cups of sugar 1.075 SG
> 
> -1 tsp of tanin
> 
> -3 tsp yeast nutrient (I add just 1 tsp right?)
> 
> -1 tsp yeast energizer
> 
> -1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme
> 
> -He states "Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well" So in my case i would top it off with till i reach 1 gallon right?
> 
> -1 lb of Triple Berry Blend
> 
> -1 packet of yeast




Don't waste your time! Find what you need to mix at least 5 gallons.
My first "Skeeter Pee" was a half batch, and it gone in 2 weeks!
I'm now making no less than 10 gallons at a time when doing DB, because it disappears so fast!

It is worth your time to upscale now. If not, you like so many others, will wonder why you did such a small batch.

Mark


----------



## RighteousDrinker

maurtis said:


> I have to ask, why are you looking to only make a 1 gallon batch? Is it due to lack of a larger carboy? And are you still going to do the primary fermentation in a bucket? If not, how are you planning on squeezing the fruit/fruit bag?
> 
> If you are fermenting in a 1 gallon carboy with the fruit in there, I would think you would have to leave a good amount of headspace for the foam or use a blow off tube. And the loss of wine from the lees, fruit, and foam would leave you with at most 4 750ml bottles? Probably closer to 3 or 3.5.
> 
> If I were to do a smaller batch on a budget, I would cut the original recipe in half for a three gallon batch. Do the primary fermentation in a 5 gallon icing bucket (apparently bakeries give them away for free if you ask nicely), and secondary in three one gallon carboys if that is what you have. That way you still get at least 12 bottles of wine for your troubles.



I'm making a gallon batch because i'm new to this, i don't want to mess up 6 gallons as opposed to 1 gallon, saves money and time. I just want to get a feel for winemaking then i'll move up to a bigger quantity. 

I have a 2HDPE bucket which i'll use as a primary then i'll rack it on to my secondary which is a carboy.

And besides i drink by myself and in small quantities. As long as i get at least 2-3 bottles from this i'm set for about 3-6 months.


----------



## RighteousDrinker

wineforfun said:


> 8oz of lemon juice
> Water to 1 gal.+
> Use your hydrometer and add enough sugar to get SG to 1.075-1.080
> 1 tsp. nutrient
> Use 1-1.5lb. Triple Berry Blend(more fruit, more flavor)
> 
> Basically, you cut/divide the recipe by 6, or use the manufacture recommendation for the chemicals..............except for yeast, use the full packet.



Thanks, i'll take your word for it! 
Can not wait to try it out. 
Hey, i don't have tannin, is it really needed? I know it's to dry, and to add bitterness to the wine but can i go without it?


----------



## maurtis

RighteousDrinker said:


> I'm making a gallon batch because i'm new to this, i don't want to mess up 6 gallons as opposed to 1 gallon, saves money and time. I just want to get a feel for winemaking then i'll move up to a bigger quantity.
> 
> I have a 2HDPE bucket which i'll use as a primary then i'll rack it on to my secondary which is a carboy.
> 
> And besides i drink by myself and in small quantities. As long as i get at least 2-3 bottles from this i'm set for about 3-6 months.



Great, the primary fermentation part and squeezing the fruit bag was what I was concerned about. If you can ferment in a bucket, you are good to go. Regarding tannin, from what I understand it help with mouthfeels and flavor. It is not very expensive, so if you have an LHBS nearby you can pick up a small packet of it, or get a 1oz. packet off Amazon for $6.91 shipped. That would last you for probably 20 - 30 gallons of DB. 

I am not a big wine drinker, brew beer mostly, but I love some chilled DB on a hot day. Or a hot night. Or a cold night with the heater on... Okay, I just love the stuff altogether, LOL.


----------



## RighteousDrinker

maurtis said:


> Great, the primary fermentation part and squeezing the fruit bag was what I was concerned about. If you can ferment in a bucket, you are good to go. Regarding tannin, from what I understand it help with mouthfeels and flavor. It is not very expensive, so if you have an LHBS nearby you can pick up a small packet of it, or get a 1oz. packet off Amazon for $6.91 shipped. That would last you for probably 20 - 30 gallons of DB.
> 
> I am not a big wine drinker, brew beer mostly, but I love some chilled DB on a hot day. Or a hot night. Or a cold night with the heater on... Okay, I just love the stuff altogether, LOL.



I was going to go today to my local shop but it's near closing time, i'll try tomorrow, if they have any!
Nice, i didn't know such a small quantity lasted so long, that's great!

Ah, that sounds so good!!!! Haha! Looking at the reviews, who doesn't love this recipe!
How is the taste of this DB is it strong or is the type that varies on how much sugar you want to add?


----------



## TemperanceOwl

I started my first batch of Dragon Blood last weekend, with a SG of 1.072, and it dropped below 1.000 yesterday. I removed the fruit (the triple berry blend plus fresh Florida strawberries that were on sale) as instructed, and last night the SG was 0.991 !! My hydrometer only goes to 0.990. How long can it go before the sugar is all used up and the yeast dies?? Tonight it seemed to still be a pinch above the 0.990 mark, so maybe it will level out here. It is VERY dry, as you can imagine.
I will add Dave's recommended 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon, and would like to add some concentrated juice back, as well. It really tasted awesome before the fermentation ever started!


----------



## reefman

You're ready to rack it off the lees, and put in in secondary with an air lock.
Stir really hard to degas now, (follow degas instructions). 
Then add your clearing agent. 
Personally I would let my batch stabilize for at least a week to clear before I add the potassium sorbate and then back sweeten.
Make sure it's degassed and clear before sweetening. I use frozen juice concentrate in mine as well. It adds some extra flavor.


----------



## wineforfun

RighteousDrinker said:


> Thanks, i'll take your word for it!
> Can not wait to try it out.
> Hey, i don't have tannin, is it really needed? I know it's to dry, and to add bitterness to the wine but can i go without it?



Yeah, you can go without it if you don't have it. Just pick some up next time you can.
I have made a bunch of DB and variations. You will like it if you liked berry-type wine. The one change I make to it is the starting SG. I always make mine 1.090-1.100. I like more ABV than the recipe calls for.
Also, I add k-meta and superkleer(clearing agent like sparklloid), then once clear, add the sorbate. I believe the instructions have you add it all at once.

I only make 2 gal. batches as I, like you, am one of the only one drinking it and 10 bottles will last me 3-4 months with everything else I make.


----------



## wineforfun

RighteousDrinker said:


> Ah, that sounds so good!!!! Haha! Looking at the reviews, who doesn't love this recipe!
> How is the taste of this DB is it strong or is the type that varies on how much sugar you want to add?



Strong as in what? Flavor? If so, it will start out being semi-fruity for the first month or two then after about the thrid month the fruit really comes forward.

Strong as far as alcohol? If so, no, not as the recipe is written. At 1.075-1.080, it ends up around 9%-10% ABV. That is why I mentioned in my earlier post I raise the SG to 1.090-1.1.00 as mine ends up in the 13% ABV range.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

JSquared said:


> I'm planning to start Strawberry Tart next, I've read a lot of people are having clearing problems, any help and advise from those that didn't have clearing problems? That way I can follow the leader!



I read through the last few pages of the thread and don't see where anyone commented back JSquared. If I missed it, here is just another opinion....

I had read about the clearing issues with this version so I added some extra pectic enzyme before fermentation and I also added a product called Lallzyme C-Max. I did everything else per the recipe and my wine cleared within about a day of adding the SuperKleer. I couldn't be more pleased! I will be checking sweetness today and deciding whether to add more sugar and some extract per the recipie but I am hoping to filter and bottle this week and I just began the batch on about the 21st of March. 

I think the good results I got were from the Lallzyme C-Max. It is kind of hard to find, but a Google search should bring it up for you. It takes less than 1/8 teaspoon for a 6 gallon batch so it goes a long ways!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

cheesehead said:


> I am going on 8 weeks with my strawberry tart in the carboy and still not clearing or clearing very very very slowly. I racked and ran thru a 5 micron filter on sunday with very little lees on the bottom, this is after hitting it with a 3rd dose of clearing agent ( 2 super-kleer, 1 sparkalloid) and extra enzyme 2 weeks ago, smells great and tastes ok , very aromatic just not clearing- hope it wakes up and drops a ton cuz it still looks like fruit punch , anyone with suggestions plz feel free



Any progress, Cheesehead? I had a wine that just wouldn't clear completely but within a few days of running it through the filter, it dropped a ton of sediment. Hoping you had the same result! Other than that, I don't have any advice to offer except waiting it out.


----------



## willie

Mentioned a few days ago about my Strawberry Tart being cloudy and today marks the 14th day sense 2nd rack that it was still cloudy not real bad but just not as clear as it should be so I added 3 tsp. of Pectic Enzyme in case it's pectic haze. So now we will continue to wait some more.

Will


----------



## JSquared

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I read through the last few pages of the thread and don't see where anyone commented back JSquared. If I missed it, here is just another opinion....
> 
> 
> 
> I had read about the clearing issues with this version so I added some extra pectic enzyme before fermentation and I also added a product called Lallzyme C-Max. I did everything else per the recipe and my wine cleared within about a day of adding the SuperKleer. I couldn't be more pleased! I will be checking sweetness today and deciding whether to add more sugar and some extract per the recipie but I am hoping to filter and bottle this week and I just began the batch on about the 21st of March.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the good results I got were from the Lallzyme C-Max. It is kind of hard to find, but a Google search should bring it up for you. It takes less than 1/8 teaspoon for a 6 gallon batch so it goes a long ways!




Thanks for the info, I'm looking into buying Lallzyme CMax! Do you use Lallzyme C Max in all of your wines or just high pectin wines and those that appear hard to clear?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

JSquared said:


> Thanks for the info, I'm looking into buying Lallzyme CMax! Do you use Lallzyme C Max in all of your wines or just high pectin wines and those that appear hard to clear?



I think I may start adding it to all of my wines. It made a huge difference in clearing for a huckleberry-raspberry DB that I added it to as well, so I definitely feel like it is worth the small expense.


----------



## ohchiz

im brand new to wine but have some beer experience, just made this as my first wine batch last night using this recipe, but I also added a handful of some fresh strawberries (hoping to give it some extra fruit flavor since I saw several reviews of this saying people liked a little more fruit) which I had washed well then froze, and got to thinking about it; most other recipes I read usually have you add campden or kmeta with the intial fruit bag while letting it sit overnight, this recipe does not... is it because the frozen fruit has a lower microbe load from freezing so it is not needed with frozen fruit? are the extra fresh strawberries likely to cause problems since I didn't use kmeta?

I already pitched my yeast this morning too so im guessing it would be too late to add kmeta now without interfering with fermentation


----------



## willie

ohchiz said:


> im brand new to wine but have some beer experience, just made this as my first wine batch last night using this recipe, but I also added a handful of some fresh strawberries (hoping to give it some extra fruit flavor since I saw several reviews of this saying people liked a little more fruit) which I had washed well then froze, and got to thinking about it; most other recipes I read usually have you add campden or kmeta with the intial fruit bag while letting it sit overnight, this recipe does not... is it because the frozen fruit has a lower microbe load from freezing so it is not needed with frozen fruit? are the extra fresh strawberries likely to cause problems since I didn't use kmeta?
> 
> I already pitched my yeast this morning too so im guessing it would be too late to add kmeta now without interfering with fermentation



I would not add kmeta to your wine. It could stall your ferment. Adding the extra fruit in the bag works just fine. I started another batch just yesterday and added another half a bag of the Wyman's Triple berry blend for a total weight of 7.5lbs. But the original 6lb recipe is just great without adding any extra. Welcome to the forum and good luck. 

Will


----------



## reefman

ohchiz said:


> im brand new to wine but have some beer experience, just made this as my first wine batch last night using this recipe, but I also added a handful of some fresh strawberries (hoping to give it some extra fruit flavor since I saw several reviews of this saying people liked a little more fruit) which I had washed well then froze, and got to thinking about it; most other recipes I read usually have you add campden or kmeta with the intial fruit bag while letting it sit overnight, this recipe does not... is it because the frozen fruit has a lower microbe load from freezing so it is not needed with frozen fruit? are the extra fresh strawberries likely to cause problems since I didn't use kmeta?
> 
> I already pitched my yeast this morning too so im guessing it would be too late to add kmeta now without interfering with fermentation


 
K-meta additions are typically to kill off wild yeasts so the yeast you add doesn't have to compete. Yeast is everywhere in this world.
My guess is you will be okay, since most wine yeast is cultured to take a leading role in fermentation.
As willie stated adding k-meta now may hinder your fermentation.


----------



## ohchiz

for future reference though if I make this recipe again is it better to add some kmeta before letting the fruit sit overnight or is there some factor in this particular recipe (e.g. the fruit is frozen and enough the microbes wont survive) that doesn't make it necessary?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

ohchiz said:


> for future reference though if I make this recipe again is it better to add some kmeta before letting the fruit sit overnight or is there some factor in this particular recipe (e.g. the fruit is frozen and enough the microbes wont survive) that doesn't make it necessary?



I have friends who "donate" homegrown fruit and I will use kmeta in those circumstances. Otherwise, if the fruit is store bought or if I have personally picked/cleaned/processed the fruit, I usually don't. I do think the lemon juice concentration probably helps to kill off the random yeasty as does freezing but there are times I would rather be safe than sorry.


----------



## TemperanceOwl

Hi, guys. I have a quick question about degassing…

My batch settled out at in primary at 0.991, so I racked it over to a clean carboy tonight, and added the K-meta and potassium sorbate as instructed. The next step is to degas thoroughly, so I used my drill mounted degasser and stirred like crazy for 15 minutes straight. It never let up on the amount of gas coming up. After 15 minutes of that I put my AI1 vacuum pump splash rack bung and attachment in it, stuck my finger over the open end, and started pulling a vacuum on it. It foamed like crazy. In all I've probably run it another 20 minutes, with breaks in between to let it settle down and not overstress the pump. Is it normal for it to off-gas this much after fermentation is complete? (Is this a bad way to use the AI1?) 

I have not yet added the Super-Kleer due to the admonition to make sure the wine is fully degassed beforehand. I've stuck an air lock on the top and am thinking of letting it sit overnight and pull vacuum on it again tomorrow night. Overkill? I've just never seen so much gas… There's no harm in letting it sit like that for a week or more before adding the Super-Kleer, is there?

Thanks everybody!! Your comments about this wine are so great, I can't wait to try it.


----------



## TemperanceOwl

Oh, one observation to note, the gas is still coming up, but the bubbles are much bigger now. More like bubbles and less like foam.
- T.O.


----------



## cmason1957

TemperanceOwl said:


> Hi, guys. I have a quick question about degassing…
> 
> My batch settled out at in primary at 0.991, so I racked it over to a clean carboy tonight, and added the K-meta and potassium sorbate as instructed. The next step is to degas thoroughly, so I used my drill mounted degasser and stirred like crazy for 15 minutes straight. It never let up on the amount of gas coming up. After 15 minutes of that I put my AI1 vacuum pump splash rack bung and attachment in it, stuck my finger over the open end, and started pulling a vacuum on it. It foamed like crazy. In all I've probably run it another 20 minutes, with breaks in between to let it settle down and not overstress the pump. Is it normal for it to off-gas this much after fermentation is complete? (Is this a bad way to use the AI1?)
> 
> I have not yet added the Super-Kleer due to the admonition to make sure the wine is fully degassed beforehand. I've stuck an air lock on the top and am thinking of letting it sit overnight and pull vacuum on it again tomorrow night. Overkill? I've just never seen so much gas… There's no harm in letting it sit like that for a week or more before adding the Super-Kleer, is there?
> 
> Thanks everybody!! Your comments about this wine are so great, I can't wait to try it.



I wouldn't do that to my all in one. I don't think it will hurt it, but even so, it just isn't needed. I never do "degassing". It just comes out doing the three or four rackings you need to do to make wine. 

And to answer your question about letting it set, time makes all wines better.


----------



## TemperanceOwl

Thanks for the response, Cmason!


----------



## Ctmaro

ohchiz said:


> for future reference though if I make this recipe again is it better to add some kmeta before letting the fruit sit overnight or is there some factor in this particular recipe (e.g. the fruit is frozen and enough the microbes wont survive) that doesn't make it necessary?



I don't worry about adding Kmeta because it is already in the lemon juice.
You wait 12 - 24 hrs for preservatives to gas off.

Mark


----------



## willie

I am on here almost every day and it has been a great learning experience.

Will


----------



## TemperanceOwl

JSquared said:


> I had an extra 1 gallon of regular DB waiting to be bottled and I added 1/2 of a 12 oz can of mixed berry concentrate last night to do a taste test. Both wines are sitting at 3 wks since they were finished. The regular DB has less aroma and more lemon taste up front. The DB w the berry concentrate has a slightly stronger berry taste but the lemon taste was masked someone. I think I'm going to add the concentrate to about 1/2 of my batch before bottling to give me a fruitier variate. Thanks for putting the idea out there!



Hi, JSquared. Which mixed berry concentrate did you use in your DB? That sounds like a wonderful idea and I'd like to try it, but all the concentrates I have found are either grape based or apple based. Here's one from Old Orchard that sounds good, but when you look at the ingredients the first one is apple juice. 
Thanks!! T-O


----------



## JSquared

TemperanceOwl said:


> Hi, JSquared. Which mixed berry concentrate did you use in your DB? That sounds like a wonderful idea and I'd like to try it, but all the concentrates I have found are either grape based or apple based. Here's one from Old Orchard that sounds good, but when you look at the ingredients the first one is apple juice.
> 
> Thanks!! T-O




That's the one I used, it is mostly Apple juice but the juice itself has a great Berry flavor. I wish there was an all berry concentrate but I haven't found one yet. It does add nice flavor to the wine, I tried a gallon only, using half the can, to see if I liked it first.


----------



## TemperanceOwl

JSquared said:


> That's the one I used, it is mostly Apple juice but the juice itself has a great Berry flavor. I wish there was an all berry concentrate but I haven't found one yet. It does add nice flavor to the wine, I tried a gallon only, using half the can, to see if I liked it first.



Thanks for the verification, J^2 !! I'll give it a try. I added SuperKleer night before last, so I'm almost to that step.


----------



## JSquared

TemperanceOwl said:


> Thanks for the verification, J^2 !! I'll give it a try. I added SuperKleer night before last, so I'm almost to that step.




Let me know what you think of it!


----------



## RighteousDrinker

**_*-Quick, Help*



dangerdave said:


> *DangerDave’s Dragon Blood Wine*
> My name is David C. Land (dangerdave). I am a firefighter from southern Ohio who started making wine in August 2011. Like most of you, I began slowly, but was soon bitten by the wine bug and started making many kits in my spare time. After gaining this valuable experience and understanding of the wine making process, I ventured out on my own. My very first homemade recipe was Lon DePoppe's original Skeeter Pee. I was amazed that anyone could make a good cheap wine so quickly. After varying degrees of success, I went about modifying Lon's recipe into a process that reflected both my own desires for my wines, and the processes I had come to understand. Here, I will impart the recipe I developed that has become popular among a diverse group of wine makers. It is specifically designed to make good wine cheaply and quickly while waiting for your kits to age. There are no secrets in wine making. You, my fellow wine makers, are more than welcome to use or modify this recipes or process for your own wine making pleasure. Enjoy!
> 
> *The recipe is formatted for a six (6) gallon batch. To make a larger or smaller batch, simply do the math. Doubling the batch to twelve gallons would require twice the listed ingredients, while making a three gallon batch would only take half.*
> 
> _*READ THROUGH THESE STEPS COMPLETELY BEFORE BEGINNING, TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO FINISH YOUR WINE.*_
> 
> _*Always make sure anything that touches your wine is both cleaned and sanitized, and record everything you do!*_
> 
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> *　*
> This is a sweet-tart fruity “blush” wine made from raspberries, blackberries, and blueberries with a lemon twist (if desired). It ferments quickly and clears fast. Batches of this wine have been cleared and bottled in less than two weeks (your experience may vary).
> * Special notes, including cautions and variations appear in _italics_.
> 
> 
> *Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon (or larger) primary, add---in this order:*
> 
> 1 bottle (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): _More or less lemon juice can be added to your taste, (i.e., if you want to reduce the acid level use less lemon juice). The acid added here will help balance the final wine. Substitutes include any other kind of citrus juice (orange, lime, etc.), or use no citrus at all for a very soft, supple blush._
> Water to about four gallons
> 20 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG of around 1.075 after filling to 6 gallons below. This will give you a finished alcohol by volume of about 10%-11%): _Add more/less sugar for high/lower desired final ABV. Stir sugar until completely dissolved._
> 1 tsp. tannin (stir)
> 3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
> 1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
> 3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
> Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well
> Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) _Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!_
> 
> *Can you explain in detail?
> *
> What does he mean with "Top water to six (6) gallons"? Does he mean to add water?
> 
> What does he mean with "Water to about four gallons"?
> 
> P.S. I'm making a 1 gallon batch, is yeast nutrient/energizer really needed?


----------



## sour_grapes

RighteousDrinker said:


> *Can you explain in detail?
> *
> What does he mean with "Top water to six (6) gallons"? Does he mean to add water?
> 
> What does he mean with "Water to about four gallons"?



Yes, he means to add water. IN DETAIL, he is saying:
-pour lemon juice into a bucket.
-pour a sufficient quantity of water into the same bucket so as to make the total volume of liquid in the bucket equal to 4 gallons.

-Add sugar etc, blah blah

-pour an additional quantity of water into the same bucket so as to make the total volume of liquid in the bucket equal to 6 gallons.

Is that clearer?


----------



## Tuffvine

*Wine FNG*

Hello!

I am in the first week of my wine making career and figured I would stop lurking.

My first DB variant is on day 5 at SG 1.012 made from Strawberry,Blackberry and Raspberry as that is all BJ's had. Excited to say I made wine!

Quick question about Covering the Primary as I close in on 1.010. Do you veterans snap the lid on tight with an airlock at this point or is a loose lid and towel good enough. A bit worried about screwing it up. 

As I read through this thread it seems everyone gets a little jumpy on the first batch and now I understand why.

Thanks!


----------



## JetJockey

Most leave Lid off with a towel cover. Put under airlock after transfer to secondary.


----------



## bkisel

I do "secondary" in the "primary" bucket so yes, at 1.010 I snap down the lid and add an air lock. I've never done "secondary", DB or otherwise, that was not under air lock so really don't know if leaving a loose lid or towel on the bucket during secondary would ruin the batch.


----------



## wineforfun

Tuffvine said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am in the first week of my wine making career and figured I would stop lurking.
> 
> My first DB variant is on day 5 at SG 1.012 made from Strawberry,Blackberry and Raspberry as that is all BJ's had. Excited to say I made wine!
> 
> Quick question about Covering the Primary as I close in on 1.010. Do you veterans snap the lid on tight with an airlock at this point or is a loose lid and towel good enough. A bit worried about screwing it up.
> 
> As I read through this thread it seems everyone gets a little jumpy on the first batch and now I understand why.
> 
> Thanks!



As JetJockey stated, leave a towel over primary or you can leave lid on loosely. You want air to get in there at this stage. Wait until it has gone below SG 1.000 for a couple of days, remove fruit bag, then rack to secondary. No need to move it or lock it down at 1.010.


----------



## willie

Tuffvine said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am in the first week of my wine making career and figured I would stop lurking.
> 
> My first DB variant is on day 5 at SG 1.012 made from Strawberry,Blackberry and Raspberry as that is all BJ's had. Excited to say I made wine!
> 
> Quick question about Covering the Primary as I close in on 1.010. Do you veterans snap the lid on tight with an airlock at this point or is a loose lid and towel good enough. A bit worried about screwing it up.
> 
> As I read through this thread it seems everyone gets a little jumpy on the first batch and now I understand why.
> 
> Thanks!



Your doing just fine with your fermentation. And as it has been said you can just leave the towel on or loosely put the lid on. Just make sure you get 3 days of the same SG readings like .992 or .990 so your wine isn't still fermenting. Then your all set to go to the next step as per Danger Dave's recipe. And welcome to this Thread there has Been a lot of good info.posted sense it started.

Will


----------



## Tuffvine

Thanks all.

It is a leap of faith for me to not cover it tightly as any other fruit juice based liquid would have long since spoiled. I have read and understand the process but actually doing it is another animal.

I suppose after a successful first batch I will be a believer.

Anyhow Day six and SG is 1.00.


----------



## JSquared

I keep a lid on mine (cats) but it is sitting loosely on the top. Don't worry I felt the same way!


----------



## wineforfun

Tuffvine said:


> Anyhow Day six and SG is 1.00.



Moving along just like it should. Good work.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

My Sweet Strawberry Tart...less than a month from start of fermentation to in the bottle and labeled


----------



## JSquared

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My Sweet Strawberry Tart...less than a month from start of fermentation to in the bottle and labeled




Nice! Love the label, how's the tastes?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

JSquared said:


> Nice! Love the label, how's the tastes?



Thanks! Tastes like summer and sunshine...lol. It is awesome and is going to taste great sipping on the patio!


----------



## TemperanceOwl

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Thanks! Tastes like summer and sunshine...lol. It is awesome and is going to taste great sipping on the patio!



Looks beautiful! And I like the label, too. 
My first batch of DB is clearing beautifully in the carboy. I'll let it sit for a couple more weeks due to busy weekends coming up, but I'm looking forward to seeing it in the bottles!!


----------



## cheesehead

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Thanks! Tastes like summer and sunshine...lol. It is awesome and is going to taste great sipping on the patio!


 wish I could say the same Val, my strawberry tart is still cloudy after 3 doses of clearing agents and we are going on 2 months plus. I really think I am going to have to run this through the filter a few times. There is about a 1/2 in. of sediment on the bottom of the carboy now. So it is still dropping, but ever so slowly. I can probably say either i used the wrong type of daiquiri mix or something just went wrong in the process somewhere along the line.


----------



## Johngottshall

cheesehead said:


> wish I could say the same Val, my strawberry tart is still cloudy after 3 doses of clearing agents and we are going on 2 months plus. I really think I am going to have to run this through the filter a few times. There is about a 1/2 in. of sediment on the bottom of the carboy now. So it is still dropping, but ever so slowly. I can probably say either i used the wrong type of daiquiri mix or something just went wrong in the process somewhere along the line.



Same here 4 gallon batch 3 gallon Carnot cloudy like punch 1 gallon container cleared right up.I added clearing agents while all 4 was in 5 gallon bucket then I put into 3 gallon Carnot then a gallon Carnot so I may break it all down into 1 gallon containers see if that helps


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

cheesehead said:


> wish I could say the same Val, my strawberry tart is still cloudy after 3 doses of clearing agents and we are going on 2 months plus. I really think I am going to have to run this through the filter a few times. There is about a 1/2 in. of sediment on the bottom of the carboy now. So it is still dropping, but ever so slowly. I can probably say either i used the wrong type of daiquiri mix or something just went wrong in the process somewhere along the line.



I had a batch a couple months back (I think it was my plum version) that wasn't clearing so I ran it through my filter. It still didn't appear clear when I was done but then within a few days it just dropped a ton of sediment and became beautifully clear. So I would definitely give that a try!

I don't think you necessarily did anything wrong as it sounds like others are having trouble when using a lot of strawberries.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Johngottshall said:


> Same here 4 gallon batch 3 gallon Carnot cloudy like punch 1 gallon container cleared right up.I added clearing agents while all 4 was in 5 gallon bucket then I put into 3 gallon Carnot then a gallon Carnot so I may break it all down into 1 gallon containers see if that helps



I have seen gallon jugs clear quicker so it is worth a try. The other question I would ask is whether you have both containers in the same spot? Just making sure that one isn't on a table and the other on the floor or something along that line? I few degrees difference in temperature can be enough to help with clearing.


----------



## willie

After I added Peptic Enzyme to the Strawberry Tart the wine finally cleared again and we bottled it. The clearing happened in about 5-6 days time like magic. I was expecting it to take much longer if in deed it was Peptic Haze. It tastes just great and won't last long. I will try another batch in a couple of months. Have other DB's going on right now. 

Will


----------



## Johngottshall

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I have seen gallon jugs clear quicker so it is worth a try. The other question I would ask is whether you have both containers in the same spot? Just making sure that one isn't on a table and the other on the floor or something along that line? I few degrees difference in temperature can be enough to help with clearing.



Both in the same spot the gallon jug was clear within 4 hours 3 gallon carboy not budging


----------



## gotbags-10

So blackberries are on mega sale right now. Anyone done an all blackberry DB?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

gotbags-10 said:


> So blackberries are on mega sale right now. Anyone done an all blackberry DB?



I did one last fall...it turned out great and was a very lovely color! I think I only have a couple bottles left


----------



## quiltertoo

I am ready to start a new batch . I have 12 lbs. of mixed fruit from Sam's. It has strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. I am going to make a 6 gal. batch. Has anyone used this mix? I want to add some banana and some golden raisins. What do you think? How much would you add? Thanks for any advice you can give.
Mary Lou


----------



## cheesehead

quiltertoo said:


> I am ready to start a new batch . I have 12 lbs. of mixed fruit from Sam's. It has strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. I am going to make a 6 gal. batch. Has anyone used this mix? I want to add some banana and some golden raisins. What do you think? How much would you add? Thanks for any advice you can give.
> Mary Lou


I made it with the same mix of fruit, substituted orange and pineapple juice for the majority of the liquid and the rest was lemon juice,also added bananas too , the wife and her friends love it, myself, Ehh? its ok not tropical like i thought it would be and needed acid blend to make it pop.


----------



## cheesehead

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I had a batch a couple months back (I think it was my plum version) that wasn't clearing so I ran it through my filter. It still didn't appear clear when I was done but then within a few days it just dropped a ton of sediment and became beautifully clear. So I would definitely give that a try!
> 
> I don't think you necessarily did anything wrong as it sounds like others are having trouble when using a lot of strawberries.


 Thats my next step Val , filter as many times as i can 5micron and 1 micron until she is clear
another question , should i wait for it to be crystal clear before backsweetening and adding the extract and food coloring? my instinct is to say yes otherwise i may strip the color and more flavor when filtering


----------



## gotbags-10

If doing all blackberries should I drop some of the lemon juice due to be fact that those berries are so high in acid?


----------



## Dominic1920

gotbags-10 said:


> If doing all blackberries should I drop some of the lemon juice due to be fact that those berries are so high in acid?



I didn't know blackberries were high in acid. I made some and it was fine (not great) with the recommended amount of lemon, an exceptionally dark beautiful color. But that may explain its tartness.


----------



## dangerdave

I can see you are all making some awesome wines! Surprisingly, I have not tried an all blackberry version, but it's on my wish list.

You guys/gals are on your own for the next six months, as I'll be on my walk. I'll try to make occasional updates in the "Five Million Steps" thread so you can see how I'm doing (if you're interested).

Keep the Dragon Blood flowing! I'll catch up with you all in November, as I expect to be shoved into the cellar to refill the racks shortly after my return...


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

cheesehead said:


> Thats my next step Val , filter as many times as i can 5micron and 1 micron until she is clear
> another question , should i wait for it to be crystal clear before backsweetening and adding the extract and food coloring? my instinct is to say yes otherwise i may strip the color and more flavor when filtering



If it were my wine, I would run it through the 5 micron, then the 1, and then let it sit for several days to see if it drops some sediment. I would definitely wait until it's crystal clear before proceeding. Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

quiltertoo said:


> I am ready to start a new batch . I have 12 lbs. of mixed fruit from Sam's. It has strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. I am going to make a 6 gal. batch. Has anyone used this mix? I want to add some banana and some golden raisins. What do you think? How much would you add? Thanks for any advice you can give.
> Mary Lou



I have done a batch with the same mix as well. Other than the different fruit, I followed the DB recipe for sugar and lemon juice, however I always add 2-3 bananas and about a pound of raisins to every DB batch I make. It turned out well but I have to admit it's not my favorite...I personally prefer the berry versions, my that's just me


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

gotbags-10 said:


> If doing all blackberries should I drop some of the lemon juice due to be fact that those berries are so high in acid?



I didn't adjust the acid and, in my opinion, it was just fine. I really do want to get a pH test kit though so I can check things like that, but so far I've just been following the recipe no matter which fruit I drop in to the base.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

dangerdave said:


> I can see you are all making some awesome wines! Surprisingly, I have not tried an all blackberry version, but it's on my wish list.
> 
> You guys/gals are on your own for the next six months, as I'll be on my walk. I'll try to make occasional updates in the "Five Million Steps" thread so you can see how I'm doing (if you're interested).
> 
> Keep the Dragon Blood flowing! I'll catch up with you all in November, as I expect to be shoved into the cellar to refill the racks shortly after my return...



I will have to check out that thread, as I hadn't heard you were going "walk-about"! Wow, it won't be the same around here without our guru and mentor, but we will muddle through. What an adventure...can't wait to read all about it!


----------



## JetJockey

dangerdave said:


> I can see you are all making some awesome wines! Surprisingly, I have not tried an all blackberry version, but it's on my wish list.
> 
> You guys/gals are on your own for the next six months, as I'll be on my walk. I'll try to make occasional updates in the "Five Million Steps" thread so you can see how I'm doing (if you're interested).
> 
> Keep the Dragon Blood flowing! I'll catch up with you all in November, as I expect to be shoved into the cellar to refill the racks shortly after my return...



Good Luck and Godspeed! We will be thinking about you.


----------



## Matty_Kay

I started my first batch of triple berry dragons blood tonight. Right now, it is sitting quietly in the basement. I'll pitch the yeast tomorrow afternoon and let 'er rip. Giving the fruit bag a couple of squeezes, the smell of the raspberries smells like summer. Looking forward to the process and the final product.


----------



## Ctmaro

quiltertoo said:


> I am ready to start a new batch . I have 12 lbs. of mixed fruit from Sam's. It has strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. I am going to make a 6 gal. batch. Has anyone used this mix? I want to add some banana and some golden raisins. What do you think? How much would you add? Thanks for any advice you can give.
> Mary Lou



I have used one very similar I got for Costco, called Frestival Mix, it made a wonderful wine one of the family favorites!

Mark


----------



## willie

quiltertoo said:


> I am ready to start a new batch . I have 12 lbs. of mixed fruit from Sam's. It has strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. I am going to make a 6 gal. batch. Has anyone used this mix? I want to add some banana and some golden raisins. What do you think? How much would you add? Thanks for any advice you can give.
> Mary Lou



Yes I made a batch of that just about 10 wks. ago. We call it Tropical Blood. It is great and a nice change from the original. It was the 2nd time I made it. I also tossed in a couple cans of frozen Welches 100% White Grape Juice in the fermenter. An idea I got from someone on here last year. I'm getting ready to start another batch of the Tropical next week cause we only have about a have dozen left. I just can't seem to make this Dragon Blood fast enough. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

willie said:


> Yes I made a batch of that just about 10 wks. ago. We call it Tropical Blood. It is great and a nice change from the original. It was the 2nd time I made it. I also tossed in a couple cans of frozen Welches 100% White Grape Juice in the fermenter. An idea I got from someone on here last year. I'm getting ready to start another batch of the Tropical next week cause we only have about a have dozen left. I just can't seem to make this Dragon Blood fast enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Will




Do you use lemon juice or did you switch to orange or pineapple? I have read where some people switch to another juice somewhere on the thread for this blend. I'm planning to try this one myself soon!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

JSquared said:


> Do you use lemon juice or did you switch to orange or pineapple? I have read where some people switch to another juice somewhere on the thread for this blend. I'm planning to try this one myself soon!



The first batch I made, I used pineapple juice as the base and, to me, it was too much...all I tasted was pineapple in the finished product. So the second time, I just stuck with the lemon juice and I liked it much better. Just my personal taste though!


----------



## SwampDog35

Starting our next batch of DB tonight. It's going to be a Strawberry,Blueberry,Pomegranate mix. Looking forward to it. As the past 3 batches have been a success. Also will be starting a Strawberry Tart in the coming weeks. Along with a Blackberry.


----------



## willie

JSquared said:


> Do you use lemon juice or did you switch to orange or pineapple? I have read where some people switch to another juice somewhere on the thread for this blend. I'm planning to try this one myself soon!



Yes just lemon juice for the Tropical blend. 30-32 oz. depending on what brand I pick up. 

Will


----------



## billyPre

Finished My first batch of Dragons Blood!! Hell, it is my first attempt at making any kind of wine and omg it is delicious!!! Thanks Dave and everyone else who contributed to this forum giving me enough info to make this a success.


----------



## JSquared

billyPre said:


> Finished My first batch of Dragons Blood!! Hell, it is my first attempt at making any kind of wine and omg it is delicious!!! Thanks Dave and everyone else who contributed to this forum giving me enough info to make this a success.




Your bottle is stunning!! So glad you love it! It the bottle vintage?


----------



## billyPre

JSquared said:


> Your bottle is stunning!! So glad you love it! It the bottle vintage?



Naw, not vintage, Dollar Store. My girl loves this wine too, she says it "dangerously good."


----------



## quiltertoo

I started my mixed fruit DB today. 6 gallon recipe with 12# of fruit. When I got to the pectic enzyme I only had 2 3/4 teasp. instead of the 3 teasp. needed per recipe. Am I okay or should I head to the wine making store tomorrow? If I do need to add the addition pec. en. can it wait 1 more day and should I hold off adding the yeast until I get it. I used 12# of mixed fruit containing strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. Also a pound of golden raisins and 4 small bananas.
Mary Lou


----------



## willie

quiltertoo said:


> I started my mixed fruit DB today. 6 gallon recipe with 12# of fruit. When I got to the pectic enzyme I only had 2 3/4 teasp. instead of the 3 teasp. needed per recipe. Am I okay or should I head to the wine making store tomorrow? If I do need to add the addition pec. en. can it wait 1 more day and should I hold off adding the yeast until I get it. I used 12# of mixed fruit containing strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. Also a pound of golden raisins and 4 small bananas.
> Mary Lou



I would say you are fine with the 2 3/4 tsp. peptic enzyme. You can always add more in a day or two if you wish. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

quiltertoo said:


> I started my mixed fruit DB today. 6 gallon recipe with 12# of fruit. When I got to the pectic enzyme I only had 2 3/4 teasp. instead of the 3 teasp. needed per recipe. Am I okay or should I head to the wine making store tomorrow? If I do need to add the addition pec. en. can it wait 1 more day and should I hold off adding the yeast until I get it. I used 12# of mixed fruit containing strawberry, peach, pineapple and mango. Also a pound of golden raisins and 4 small bananas.
> Mary Lou



In my opinion, I would add another teaspoon or so at some point in the process but you don't have to rush. My reason for saying so is that you are using more fruit than the original recipe calls for and because peaches, strawberries and mangos can all be harder to clear than straight up berries.


----------



## Ctmaro

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> The first batch I made, I used pineapple juice as the base and, to me, it was too much...all I tasted was pineapple in the finished product. So the second time, I just stuck with the lemon juice and I liked it much better. Just my personal taste though!



I agree, I used lemon juice with my also.

Mark


----------



## mwulf67

First blood…a black, blue, raz, and strawberry mix….







This is my first DB, and only 2nd batch of wine ever…after that first batch, I was kind of doubting that winemaking was really the hobby for me…but my faith and excitement has been fully restored after making this DB…I am sure I will make more kits in the future, but I really enjoyed making this wine more “from scratch”…plus, I always figured fruit wine is where my main interest would lie….

A big thanks to Dave, Lon, and everyone who has contributed to this ongoing, and hopefully never ending, thread! Can’t wait to start my next batch….maybe something tropical….


----------



## quiltertoo

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> In my opinion, I would add another teaspoon or so at some point in the process but you don't have to rush. My reason for saying so is that you are using more fruit than the original recipe calls for and because peaches, strawberries and mangos can all be harder to clear than straight up berries.



Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely do that. I pitched the yeast yesterday. When I stirred and squeezed it today I tasted it and it has a really nice fruity taste. I'm excited.

Mary Lou


----------



## Matty_Kay

My sg was at 1.045 this morning, down from 1.080 starting sg on Saturday. The bag of fruit I started with is down considerably from the whole berries I started with. It looks and feels like the blueberries are still relatively in tact. Is it normal for the raspberries and black berries to turn to basically mush?


----------



## ffemt128

Matty_Kay said:


> My sg was at 1.045 this morning, down from 1.080 starting sg on Saturday. The bag of fruit I started with is down considerably from the whole berries I started with. It looks and feels like the blueberries are still relatively in tact. Is it normal for the raspberries and black berries to turn to basically mush?


 

I haven't made the dragon's blood but based on making strawberry wine with whole berries they pretty much turn to mush as well. I would think this would be expected with raspberries and blackberries.


----------



## JSquared

Matty_Kay said:


> My sg was at 1.045 this morning, down from 1.080 starting sg on Saturday. The bag of fruit I started with is down considerably from the whole berries I started with. It looks and feels like the blueberries are still relatively in tact. Is it normal for the raspberries and black berries to turn to basically mush?




By the time mine was done, all I had was a bag of what felt like seeds and skins. Everything else was gone! I squeezed daily.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Matty_Kay said:


> My sg was at 1.045 this morning, down from 1.080 starting sg on Saturday. The bag of fruit I started with is down considerably from the whole berries I started with. It looks and feels like the blueberries are still relatively in tact. Is it normal for the raspberries and black berries to turn to basically mush?



When I have blueberries in the mix, I try to "pop" them when I do my daily squeezing! But yes, it is normal for you to have mush or a bag of seeds and skins by the time you are done.


----------



## maurtis

Agreed, the blueberries can be tougher so I try to pop them after a few days when squeezing the bag as well. At the end, fruit mush puree


----------



## quiltertoo

Is 82 degree must too high. Today is day 3 and the temp is up to 82. I put a bag of ice in it to bring the temp down. Did I panic? My other 2 batches stayed in the low to mid 70s the whole time.


----------



## JetJockey

With EC-118 yeast, you are OK up to 86*F, 30*C.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

quiltertoo said:


> Is 82 degree must too high. Today is day 3 and the temp is up to 82. I put a bag of ice in it to bring the temp down. Did I panic? My other 2 batches stayed in the low to mid 70s the whole time.



You probably were okay with 82 but in the future if you do need to cool your must I've heard that sitting your bucket or carboy in a shallow pan of water and then wrapping a wet towel around it will do the trick. Let the towel hang in the water as it will wick up more moisture as needed.


----------



## Tuffvine

Update on my first wine making attempt:

Racked last Friday according to the directions into a carboy after the SG stabilized at .990 from the starting point of 1.080. Took 9 days in total, the last three the SG was stable, at a temp of 70deg. Degassed, added chems and clearing agent and the wine cleared brilliantly in 1-2 days. 

A few small pieces of fruit came out of the bag at some point and I do have some floaters at the top of the Carboy in addition to the sediment at the bottom. There fore I am thinking about filtering the wine on the next racking when sweetening is required. Interested to know the gear required. I was thinking about using a nylon paint strainer bag over the siphon inlet.

Any better suggestions?


----------



## gotbags-10

Yup I've strained wine and beer through paint strainer bags when racking


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I have been gifted tons of fruit for wine making in the last couple months, to the point that there is no more room in my freezer! So I decided to start an "everything but the kitchen sink" dragon blood this morning. I threw in raspberries, strawberries, blackberries, blueberries, plums, currants, and rhubarb...probably close to 16 pounds in all. This could be interesting...lol.


----------



## gotbags-10

So just started an all blackberry batch. I used only 32 oz of lemon juice as some of the berries were kinda tart. I haven't pitched yeast yet. I have ec-118 which I normally use for DB. But I've ben reading up on blackberry wine and it seems most people use 71b-1122 which I also have. It seems that is a good yeast to kinda round over the tartness and harshness of blackberries. I'm thinking I will try that one. I have 12lbs of berries in a 5.5g batch.


----------



## SwampDog35

Just wondering is the 12lbs enough berries? I've read to use at least 6lbs per gallon. Just wanted to make sure before I start a BlackBerry batch.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

SwampDog35 said:


> Just wondering is the 12lbs enough berries? I've read to use at least 6lbs per gallon. Just wanted to make sure before I start a BlackBerry batch.



That's the beauty of the Dragon Blood recipe...you can make it with as little as 6 pounds for the whole 6 gallon batch. People will double it to 12 pounds, but believe me, it will turn out with only 6


----------



## Ants_Elixirs

Worked dogs last night. When I came in this morning, I started what will be my first batch of Dragon's Blood.

On the stove is about 6 gallons of water with 7#'s of frozen mixed raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, black berries and cherries with 32 ozs. of lemon juice and 10#'s of sugar.

It tastes magnificent.

Wish I didn't have to wait a couple months to enjoy it. 

C'est la vie!


----------



## maurtis

Couple of months? In a couple of months from the start of a batch, mine is gone, LOL.

Mine takes right on two weeks to be ready to bottle. A little green but still quite tasty even that young. One more month from that and I find it smooth and giftable.


----------



## billyPre

From my very first batch made by me and my girl. Its 100% Dragons Blood but we're calling it Face First. We are planning on making many more batches, each with a unique name. The next batch will be called Two Timers, the batch after that will be 3rd base or 3rd degree or something.

I love this wine but the hangovers are intense; are there any things I could do different to reduce the hangover, like a different yeast or less chemicals?


----------



## wineforfun

Not sure what to tell you about the hangovers. Fortunately I don't suffer from those and DB. I also make my DB 13+% ABV.
Top those bottles up some more, you are cheating someone out of an extra sip. 

Nice label too.


----------



## cheesehead

Well Ive come to the conclusion that my strawberry tart wine is not going to clear on its own after 2 1/2 months and counting. 2 weeks ago i filtered through a 5 & 1 micron filter 8x and it did look better but only dropped a fine mist of sediment barely covering the bottom of the carboy during the next 2 weeks. I even brought the temp up to 75 with no luck ( was at 70 degrees). I think i will try the filtering again this weekend, if that doesnt work , I am almost apt to proceed with the backsweetening and just go ahead with the bottling. Maybe i will call it "cloudy with a chance of drunkeness"-- It smells great and actually tastes good as is but Dang it! , it just wont clear


----------



## maurtis

Billy, I LOLed at the label, love it. Not sure about the hangovers, my reaction to DB is no worse than any commercial wine or beer. But if you and your girl both get strong hangovers from it, it does not sound like a personal sensitivity issue. How much k-meta did you use and when? I am wondering if it is a sulfite issue?

Cheesehead, "cloudy with a chance of drunkeness"... awesome!


----------



## willie

cheesehead said:


> Well Ive come to the conclusion that my strawberry tart wine is not going to clear on its own after 2 1/2 months and counting. 2 weeks ago i filtered through a 5 & 1 micron filter 8x and it did look better but only dropped a fine mist of sediment barely covering the bottom of the carboy during the next 2 weeks. I even brought the temp up to 75 with no luck ( was at 70 degrees). I think i will try the filtering again this weekend, if that doesnt work , I am almost apt to proceed with the backsweetening and just go ahead with the bottling. Maybe i will call it "cloudy with a chance of drunkeness"-- It smells great and actually tastes good as is but Dang it! , it just wont clear



Thanks for the update. I guess Luck was with me that the problem with my Straw.cleared using Peptic Enzyme. I'm too new at this wine making that I don't have an answer for you. But I do remember someone saying that eventually it will clear. I don't think I would bottle a cloudy wine. Hopefully you will get some more input from some others. Also may I suggest you might want to post on another like the General Wine Making Forum if you haven't yet. There are some very good veteran wine makers that lurk there. Good Luck.

Will


----------



## billyPre

maurtis said:


> How much k-meta did you use and when? I am wondering if it is a sulfite issue?
> 
> Cheesehead, "cloudy with a chance of drunkeness"... awesome!



Well.. I am sure I went by my directions of .25 tsp. k-meta. I want to say that the hangover is worse than what I get drinking commercial wines but its hard to compare since all I have been drinking is dragons blood!  

I suppose I could just be drinking too much

Any other factors that might affect hangover like the type of yeast or perhaps I stressed out my yeast with fluctuating temperatures?


----------



## SwampDog35

Got my 3rd batch of DB (Strawberry, Blueberry, Pomegranate) going we call it "Wine Shine" cause it is pretty strong. 
Waiting to pick some BlackBerries to do a pure BlackBerry DB.


----------



## calvin

cheesehead said:


> Well Ive come to the conclusion that my strawberry tart wine is not going to clear on its own after 2 1/2 months and counting. 2 weeks ago i filtered through a 5 & 1 micron filter 8x and it did look better but only dropped a fine mist of sediment barely covering the bottom of the carboy during the next 2 weeks. I even brought the temp up to 75 with no luck ( was at 70 degrees). I think i will try the filtering again this weekend, if that doesnt work , I am almost apt to proceed with the backsweetening and just go ahead with the bottling. Maybe i will call it "cloudy with a chance of drunkeness"-- It smells great and actually tastes good as is but Dang it! , it just wont clear




Try adding another dose of pectic enzyme and let it sit for another week


----------



## maurtis

billyPre said:


> Well.. I am sure I went by my directions of .25 tsp. k-meta. I want to say that the hangover is worse than what I get drinking commercial wines but its hard to compare since all I have been drinking is dragons blood!
> 
> I suppose I could just be drinking too much
> 
> Any other factors that might affect hangover like the type of yeast or perhaps I stressed out my yeast with fluctuating temperatures?



True, I guess it depends on how much you are drinking in a night. I can have a bottle to myself and not feel much in the morning. Two bottles and I am definitely dragging until lunch.

How high did you let the temps go? If you used EC-1118, it seems to be really resilient, unlike beer yeasts that fart off flavors if you just look at them sideways. (I have a belgian blonde that tastes like bandaids because I was not as careful as I should have been)


----------



## billyPre

maurtis said:


> How high did you let the temps go?



I doubt the temperature got too high but it fluctuated, ~73 during the night and ~80 during the day.

We all know that if you drink the cheap stuff, whiskey or wine, you hang over is worse. What is it about the cheaper spirits that give you a worse hangover?


----------



## gaboy

billyPre said:


> I doubt the temperature got too high but it fluctuated, ~73 during the night and ~80 during the day.
> 
> We all know that if you drink the cheap stuff, whiskey or wine, you hang over is worse. What is it about the cheaper spirits that give you a worse hangover?



Long chain hydrocarbons that are not completely broken down to the desired ethyl alcohol. Edited for omitted and incorrectly spelled words!!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I have friends who swear they get tipsier off of my wine than store bought, but I honestly don't know how that can be as the ABV should be about the same. As for worse hangovers, I haven't noticed this personally but maybe I am just building up a tolerance...LOL.


----------



## TemperanceOwl

I started my first DB on March 28, and tonight I sweetened with 3 3/4 cups of sugar (after a few tastes along the way). My question is, "why does anyone ever make anything else??" Oh my goodness, that's good! Far better than my first kit wine that is now 7 months old (WE Mezza Luna red). And it's only going to get better??


----------



## bkisel

TemperanceOwl said:


> I started my first DB on March 28, and tonight I sweetened with 3 3/4 cups of sugar (after a few tastes along the way). My question is, "why does anyone ever make anything else??" Oh my goodness, that's good! Far better than my first kit wine that is now 7 months old (WE Mezza Luna red). And it's only going to get better??



I think it really just boils down to a matter of taste. A DB variation I liked the least (but still liked) my wife liked the most. I've liked all my kit reds better than any of the DB I've made but favor the DB over most of the whites which I make for my wife.


----------



## mwulf67

A question about increasing fruit poundage….

As one increases the pounds of fruit used, does one, or can one, decrease the starting water level? 

In my first batch of DB, I up the fruit to 10.5# with the starting water level of 6 gallons, I definitely had quite a bit of residual wine left in primary bucket after transferring to the 6 gallon carboy…I would prefer to avid that if possible…I am just not (yet) set up to handle anything over 6 gallons....so anything over that is just going to go to waste...

So, for my 2nd batch I am thinking of going with 12# of fruit…should I or can cut back on the water to compensate? Or I am I over thinking and/or missing something?


----------



## gaboy

mwulf67 said:


> A question about increasing fruit poundage….
> 
> As one increases the pounds of fruit used, does one, or can one, decrease the starting water level?
> 
> In my first batch of DB, I up the fruit to 10.5# with the starting water level of 6 gallons, I definitely had quite a bit of residual wine left in primary bucket after transferring to the 6 gallon carboy…I would prefer to avid that if possible…I am just not (yet) set up to handle anything over 6 gallons....so anything over that is just going to go to waste...
> 
> So, for my 2nd batch I am thinking of going with 12# of fruit…should I or can cut back on the water to compensate? Or I am I over thinking and/or missing something?


Only add enough water to slightly over a 6 gal mark on your primary fermenter
so you only have enough left to TOP OFF after the 1st racking.


----------



## mwulf67

gaboy said:


> Only add enough water to slightly over a 6 gal mark on your primary fermenter
> so you only have enough left to TOP OFF after the 1st racking.



When you say top off, is that with or without the fruit? Per the original directions with 6#, its without…makes sense….

But as people add more and more fruit, the juice volume added would increase would it not? And if you’re using the same starting volume of 6 gallons wouldn’t there be an increase in the overall volume produced? Which in my case, would simply lead to more waste…. 

Like I say, I could very well be missing something or over thinking this…maybe the juice added isn’t as much I assume it is?


----------



## Kraffty

Sounds like your starting with 6 gals. then adding fruit instead of adding some water, all friuit AND THEN adding more water to your 6 gallon mark on your primary. That way you can add 5 lbs or 20lbs or fruit and still end up at 6 gallons.

Mike


----------



## billyPre

mwulf67 said:


> When you say top off, is that with or without the fruit? Per the original directions with 6#, its without…makes sense….
> 
> But as people add more and more fruit, the juice volume added would increase would it not? And if you’re using the same starting volume of 6 gallons wouldn’t there be an increase in the overall volume produced? Which in my case, would simply lead to more waste….
> 
> Like I say, I could very well be missing something or over thinking this…maybe the juice added isn’t as much I assume it is?



I assume most people just eyeball it. 

I have only made one batch of DB but did notice the volume of fruit after fermentation was about 25% of what I had before. If I were to to make a batch with more than 6lbs of fruit I would measure the change then add accordingly.

If you add a big ol bag of fruit to your bucket and it raises the volume by 1 gallon then I would _assume _after fermentation is complete you would lose 75% of that 1 gallon difference.

Then again, you know what they say about assumptions.


----------



## mwulf67

Kraffty said:


> Sounds like your starting with 6 gals. then adding fruit instead of adding some water, all friuit AND THEN adding more water to your 6 gallon mark on your primary. That way you can add 5 lbs or 20lbs or fruit and still end up at 6 gallons.
> 
> Mike



Yes, I am…as per Dave's original directions…however, as I have read through this thread, I have read a lot about people increasing the fruit levels, but with real no details about the actual process/adjustments of doing so….like I said, in the first of DB I made with more fruit (10.5#), I _assumed _the starting volume of 6 gallon of water *pre-fruit* still applied….now that I am getting really to do next batch with 12#, I am questioning that assumption…

What you suggest makes sense, but as noob, I just want to check that my thinking, that thinking is correct….


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I have always started with 6 gallons of water, *pre-fruit*, regardless of the pounds of fruit I am using. In my latest batch I used around 15 pounds of fruit but there was so much sediment from that, that by the time I racked off the lees in the primary and into the carboy there wasn't much more than 6 gallons remaining. Whatever I have left beyond what will fit in my carboy I put in an appropriate sized sanitized canning jar and that is what I use to top up my wine if I need to.


----------



## wineforfun

I do as Val does. I always start off with recommended water amount whether it be 2 gal., 3 gal. or 6 gal., depending on what size batch I am making. Then I add the fruit. I have found 1.5lbs. per gallon works best for me, when making the triple/quad berry.

I also add extra water to those amounts to allow for "topping up". Typically if I am making a 2 gal. batch I start with 280-288oz. of water/liquid. 2 gal. plus 24-32oz. for loss due to sediiment when racking from primary to secondary. I normally will have 2-1 gal. carboys and 1-2 750ml bottles when racking from primary to secondary.


----------



## mwulf67

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I have always started with 6 gallons of water, *pre-fruit*, regardless of the pounds of fruit I am using. In my latest batch I used around 15 pounds of fruit but there was so much sediment from that, that by the time I racked off the lees in the primary and into the carboy there wasn't much more than 6 gallons remaining. Whatever I have left beyond what will fit in my carboy I put in an appropriate sized sanitized canning jar and that is what I use to top up my wine if I need to.



Thank you!


----------



## SwampDog35

Anyone have suggestions where I can purchase a couple of 3 gallon primary's? My local Brewshop doesn't offer them. Looking to make some 3 gallon batches of other fruit wines. Thanks


----------



## bkisel

I'm one who adds the fruit after _some_ water is added but before the final addition of water _past_ the 23L/6 gal. mark. I've gotten reasonable good at winding up with pretty close to 23L/6 gal after my first racking. Especially so if I've started with a bit less water and have added as the fruit pack gets squeezed over a period of days and can add small amount of water as I see better where the final level will wind up with the fruit pack removed. I might have just a little topping off to do or a little overage but that's what works for me. I do the same for my kits that come with grape skin packs.


----------



## barryjo

SwampDog35 said:


> Anyone have suggestions where I can purchase a couple of 3 gallon primary's? My local Brewshop doesn't offer them. Looking to make some 3 gallon batches of other fruit wines. Thanks


 
First off, for a 3 gallon batch, you need at least a 4 gallon primary. Foaming,etc. Trust me! My local donut shop gets frosting in 4 gallon buckets. Give them several washings with soap and water and then fill them with Oxyclean green solution. Do this a couple of times and they can be used. The lids have a gasket so can be used as secondaries also. For the airlock, I drill a 1 1/2 inch hole in the lid and use a #8 1/2 drilled stopper. Also, some hardware and farm supply stores carry 4-5 gallon buckets.


----------



## Winenoob66

SwampDog35 said:


> Anyone have suggestions where I can purchase a couple of 3 gallon primary's? My local Brewshop doesn't offer them. Looking to make some 3 gallon batches of other fruit wines. Thanks



Primary bucket can be any size larger than what you are making. ( Ex.. the 7.5 gal primary your LHBS carries will still work on a 3 gallon batch). As for needing secondary carboys in 3 gallon size there is numerous places online that sale them. Labelpeelers, morewine etc.


----------



## RighteousDrinker

*Taste*

Hello, I'm almost done but before i racked it to my secondary i tasted it and it tasted awful  ! It tasted like nothing in the mouth and then as it slid down my throat it gave me a burning sensation  ! Is this normal? How is it supposed to taste?
I believe i might have added a bit to much tannin acid. If i did add to much tannin acid, can i fix this?


----------



## billyPre

RighteousDrinker said:


> Hello, I'm almost done but before i racked it to my secondary i tasted it and it tasted awful! It tasted like nothing in the mouth and then as it slid down my throat it gave me a burning sensation! Is this normal? How is it supposed to taste?
> I believe i might have added a bit to much tannin acid. If i did add to much tannin acid, can i fix this?



I would give it at least a week in your secondary before jumping to any conclusions, or trying to make adjustments to what you may or may not have done right.


----------



## JSquared

RighteousDrinker said:


> Hello, I'm almost done but before i racked it to my secondary i tasted it and it tasted awful  ! It tasted like nothing in the mouth and then as it slid down my throat it gave me a burning sensation  ! Is this normal? How is it supposed to taste?
> 
> I believe i might have added a bit to much tannin acid. If i did add to much tannin acid, can i fix this?




If you haven't added any sugar yet that may be part of the problem. I found the flavor profiles came forward more after adding sugar.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

RighteousDrinker said:


> Hello, I'm almost done but before i racked it to my secondary i tasted it and it tasted awful  ! It tasted like nothing in the mouth and then as it slid down my throat it gave me a burning sensation  ! Is this normal? How is it supposed to taste?
> I believe i might have added a bit to much tannin acid. If i did add to much tannin acid, can i fix this?



I agree with the others...don't make a judgement or try to make adjustments until it's cleared in the secondary and you have backsweetened!


----------



## Matty_Kay

So I started by 1st batch a few weeks ago, following recipe as close as possible. My only adjustment was adding Tannin FT Rouge as my tannin. I adding Super Kleer a week ago and my DB is a very dark red. Is it possible my DB will remain darker than a blush color due to the addition of FT rouge?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Matty_Kay said:


> So I started by 1st batch a few weeks ago, following recipe as close as possible. My only adjustment was adding Tannin FT Rouge as my tannin. I adding Super Kleer a week ago and my DB is a very dark red. Is it possible my DB will remain darker than a blush color due to the addition of FT rouge?



You said you followed the recipe as closely as possible, so I am assuming you used a triple or quad berry mix with 6 pounds of fruit? The reason I ask is that changing the type of fruit or the amount will definitely affect color. I have a batch going right now in which I used in the range of 15 pounds of fruit and it is going to be quite dark. 

However, I looked up your tannin and the description says "The addition of FT Rouge at the beginning of red wine fermentation helps preserve the grapes’ natural tannins so they can combine with anthocyanins to cre*ate optimal stable color." So, it sounds like it could definitely affect the color of your finished product.


----------



## Matty_Kay

Thanks Val- I did use a triple berry mix of blueberries, raspberries and black berries. Yeah, that's all the tannin I had on hand so I just rolled with it. 
Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## barryjo

Matty_Kay said:


> Thanks Val- I did use a triple berry mix of blueberries, raspberries and black berries. Yeah, that's all the tannin I had on hand so I just rolled with it.
> Thanks for the feedback.


 
Rouge is French for red. Baton Rouge = red stick!
But don't fret. You just made another variation.


----------



## RaymondoChin

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I have friends who swear they get tipsier off of my wine than store bought, but I honestly don't know how that can be as the ABV should be about the same. As for worse hangovers, I haven't noticed this personally but maybe I am just building up a tolerance...LOL.



I have the same thing happen with my DB. My motto is "We don't make Fine wines, We make Fun wines" I think one reason is they drink like a wine cooler but kick your butt like a "store bought"


----------



## calvin

Finally pushed some of my other obligations and hobbies out of the way so I could get to work on filling up some carboys! Started another 12 gal batch of dragon blood tonight



Will pitch the yeast tomorrow


----------



## mofsharick

I've been lurking on the Dave's threads for some time now. A batch of DB is next on the list when my primary opens up. 

Does anyone have any insight about using orange and tangerine (whether it be juices or concentrates or fruit)? I was a child of the 80s and 90s and grew up drinking Ecto-Cooler. My thoughts are to try to capture those flavors in a wine and then backsweeten and then turn it green to make an adult Ecto-Cooler. I may be crazy, but would be glad to be told so before I try to make an orange/tangerine wine and turn it green for nostalgia purposes. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Black-opal

sounds interesting!


----------



## RighteousDrinker

*Quick Questions!*

Hello, i started my 1 gallon batch a few weeks ago and i racked it to its secondary about a week ago, a week has passed and it hasn't cleared. 
*My question is should i rack it again and what's the longest it should stay touching the lees?
How often should i rack it?
If i do rack it should i add a campden tablet again?
If i do rack it should i add water every time i rack it to fill the carboy to the top?*

Optional question: Also, the wine doesn't taste pretty good, i got a little sample and i added sugar to that sample and it tasted pretty darn good, so what's better Brown sugar or regular white sugar?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

RighteousDrinker said:


> Hello, i started my 1 gallon batch a few weeks ago and i racked it to its secondary about a week ago, a week has passed and it hasn't cleared.
> *My question is should i rack it again and what's the longest it should stay touching the lees?
> How often should i rack it?
> If i do rack it should i add a campden tablet again?
> If i do rack it should i add water every time i rack it to fill the carboy to the top?*
> 
> Optional question: Also, the wine doesn't taste pretty good, i got a little sample and i added sugar to that sample and it tasted pretty darn good, so what's better Brown sugar or regular white sugar?



A few questions...

Did you degas the wine when you racked it? It is critical to getting your wine to clear.

Did you add a clearing agent? If not, that would be my next step. 

If you did add a clearing agent, I would let it set for at least another week and see how it looks then. I have one that is at two weeks and it isn't quite clear yet. You can let it sit for a good month without worrying about it sitting on the lees.

With a DB, you shouldn't need to rack multiple times. I rack from the primary into the secondary, let it clear, rack off the sediment into a clean carboy for backsweetening, let it sit for a few days and then either filter (if you have the equipment) or bottle.

If I do need to top up, I usually use wine not water. But again, this is why I only rack the bare minimum of times so that it isn't a big concern.

I wouldn't worry about adding another campden tablet unless you have to wait a couple months before it clears or you end up having to rack an extreme amount of times...but that's just me.

I have never backsweetened a Dragon Blood variety with brown sugar. I use either white table sugar or sometimes juice concentrate.

Just my two cents!


----------



## RighteousDrinker

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> A few questions...
> 
> Did you degas the wine when you racked it? It is critical to getting your wine to clear.
> 
> Did you add a clearing agent? If not, that would be my next step.
> 
> If you did add a clearing agent, I would let it set for at least another week and see how it looks then. I have one that is at two weeks and it isn't quite clear yet. You can let it sit for a good month without worrying about it sitting on the lees.
> 
> With a DB, you shouldn't need to rack multiple times. I rack from the primary into the secondary, let it clear, rack off the sediment into a clean carboy for backsweetening, let it sit for a few days and then either filter (if you have the equipment) or bottle.
> 
> If I do need to top up, I usually use wine not water. But again, this is why I only rack the bare minimum of times so that it isn't a big concern.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about adding another campden tablet unless you have to wait a couple months before it clears or you end up having to rack an extreme amount of times...but that's just me.
> 
> I have never backsweetened a Dragon Blood variety with brown sugar. I use either white table sugar or sometimes juice concentrate.
> 
> Just my two cents!


I dont't have a clearing agent, i thought i wouldn't need since i'm making such a small batch.
Some also said degassing wasn't necessary since it's a small batch also. :/
Do i really need a clearing agent?


----------



## Black-opal

given enough time It may fall clear from my understanding. the Sparkloid just makes it happen faster. the degassing helps it to clear faster as well. 

just what i've picked up.


----------



## RighteousDrinker

Black-opal said:


> given enough time It may fall clear from my understanding. the Sparkloid just makes it happen faster. the degassing helps it to clear faster as well.
> 
> just what I've picked up.



I racked it before i read the comments. As of right now it tastes pretty awful!  It has no flavor and it's harsh on the throat! 
I'm gonna REALLY rely on back sweetening it for a better taste!
Oh i just remembered i have Glycerin "It sweetens, adds body, smooths and mellows wine"!!!!!! 
Thanks for the awesome help, i love how you guys take the time to pass on your wisdom or at least give us some heads up! Thanks!


----------



## willie

I totally agree with what Val has said in the above post. Excellent advise.

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

RighteousDrinker said:


> I racked it before i read the comments. As of right now it tastes pretty awful!  It has no flavor and it's harsh on the throat!
> I'm gonna REALLY rely on back sweetening it for a better taste!
> Oh i just remembered i have Glycerin "It sweetens, adds body, smooths and mellows wine"!!!!!!
> Thanks for the awesome help, i love how you guys take the time to pass on your wisdom or at least give us some heads up! Thanks!



As Black-Opal said, it will clear on it's own (usually) given enough time, especially if you used the triple or quad berry mix. 

Backsweetening is definitely where the flavor comes through with this wine, so I am sure you will end up being happy with it. I really don't think you will need the glycerin...the sugar should do the trick!


----------



## Ctmaro

mofsharick said:


> I've been lurking on the Dave's threads for some time now. A batch of DB is next on the list when my primary opens up.
> 
> Does anyone have any insight about using orange and tangerine (whether it be juices or concentrates or fruit)? I was a child of the 80s and 90s and grew up drinking Ecto-Cooler. My thoughts are to try to capture those flavors in a wine and then backsweeten and then turn it green to make an adult Ecto-Cooler. I may be crazy, but would be glad to be told so before I try to make an orange/tangerine wine and turn it green for nostalgia purposes. Thanks in advance.




I did a citrus punch using equal parts: orange, tangerine, lemon, lime, and grapefruit juices. I followed the "Skeeter Pee" recipe. I was trying for 5 Alive wine. Straight juices not concentrated. It tastes more of lemon lime grapefruit with the orange basically disappearing. It made a very smooth wine that my wife really likes.

Mark


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Just thought I would check in! I have been busy this week bottling wine and beer... 90 bottles of the former and 100 bottles of the latter. My "spodie odie" Dragon Blood accounted for 30 bottles...here is a pic of the finished product...


----------



## JSquared

Great labels!


----------



## Ants_Elixirs

I've been thinking of doing one of these myself. Did you have to fortify it with sugar, or was the original SP high enough?

Do you think it would have worked out better if you had doubled up on the orange juice?



Ctmaro said:


> I did a citrus punch using equal parts: orange, tangerine, lemon, lime, and grapefruit juices. I followed the "Skeeter Pee" recipe. I was trying for 5 Alive wine. Straight juices not concentrated. It tastes more of lemon lime grapefruit with the orange basically disappearing. It made a very smooth wine that my wife really likes.
> 
> Mark


----------



## Matty_Kay

Back sweetened my triple berry DB tonight, gonna wait a week or two then bottle. Wanted this ready for summer and should be good to go!


----------



## Ctmaro

Ants_Elixirs said:


> I've been thinking of doing one of these myself. Did you have to fortify it with sugar, or was the original SP high enough?
> 
> Do you think it would have worked out better if you had doubled up on the orange juice?



I followed the original recipe for sweetening it. 

I'm finding when using orange juice to ferment it's usally a neutral type of spirit. 

I don't think increasing the amount of OJ will make any difference. I saw on Shark Tank where a company was using OJ wine for the base of flavored wines. They said its de the perfect base because it was so neutral.

I would concentrate on the lemon, lime, and grapefruit favors.

Mark


----------



## maurtis

Ctmaro said:


> I followed the original recipe for sweetening it.
> 
> I'm finding when using orange juice to ferment it's usally a neutral type of spirit.
> 
> I don't think increasing the amount of OJ will make any difference. I saw on Shark Tank where a company was using OJ wine for the base of flavored wines. They said its de the perfect base because it was so neutral.
> 
> I would concentrate on the lemon, lime, and grapefruit favors.
> 
> Mark



A lot of the cheap fortified wines are citrus wines. Probably a lot cheaper to make than grape wines.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Anyone have a ballpark idea of how many calories and grams of carbs are in a 5 oz. glass of typical Dragon Blood? I have estimated that backsweetening with 4 cups of sugar would give you just under 6 grams of carbs and 24 calories right there....if I've calculated right. But what about the dry wine before adding sugar? Thanks!


----------



## winotut

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Anyone have a ballpark idea of how many calories and grams of carbs are in a 5 oz. glass of typical Dragon Blood? I have estimated that backsweetening with 4 cups of sugar would give you just under 6 grams of carbs and 24 calories right there....if I've calculated right. But what about the dry wine before adding sugar? Thanks!



As a guess, a 5 oz. glass of this has about a yummy number of carbs. Simply yummy, I'd guess. I'm no nutritionist but I'm pretty sure that's close.


----------



## Ants_Elixirs

Ctmaro said:


> I followed the original recipe for sweetening it.
> 
> I'm finding when using orange juice to ferment it's usally a neutral type of spirit.
> 
> I don't think increasing the amount of OJ will make any difference. I saw on Shark Tank where a company was using OJ wine for the base of flavored wines. They said its de the perfect base because it was so neutral.
> 
> I would concentrate on the lemon, lime, and grapefruit favors.
> 
> Mark



Thanks for the info Mark. Good to know. Having never used oranges before, I wasn't aware the fermented out so tasteless. But, on the other hand, I can see where they would be useful when wanting to make a "delicate" flavored wine using a neutral base.


----------



## Ctmaro

Ants_Elixirs said:


> Thanks for the info Mark. Good to know. Having never used oranges before, I wasn't aware the fermented out so tasteless. But, on the other hand, I can see where they would be useful when wanting to make a "delicate" flavored wine using a neutral base.



I once made a straight orange wine. Ended up using it to top off all the other wines I made with it.

Now if you wanted to make some "Crazy Cool-Aide," this would be the best base for that!

MARK


----------



## indolent

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Anyone have a ballpark idea of how many calories and grams of carbs are in a 5 oz. glass of typical Dragon Blood? I have estimated that backsweetening with 4 cups of sugar would give you just under 6 grams of carbs and 24 calories right there....if I've calculated right. But what about the dry wine before adding sugar? Thanks!



I'm diabetic so I pay pretty close attention to the carbs. I have mostly made apfelwein and variants of that, but have just recently finished my first batch of dragon blood as well.

I ferment my apfelwein completely dry and do no back sweetening. I have found that the amount of carbs, if any, are negligible. I can drink many glasses without any effect on my blood sugar. I have found that this correlates well with pretty much all commercial and homemade dry wines.

I don't know much about the calories, but the link I put below says a 6 oz. glass of dry wine with 15% alcohol has about 175 calories. The calories mainly come from the alcohol, so a lower alcohol dry wine will have slightly less.

Here are a couple links that provide some good info:
http://winefolly.com/update/carbs-in-wine/
http://winefolly.com/update/calories-in-wine/


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

indolent said:


> I'm diabetic so I pay pretty close attention to the carbs. I have mostly made apfelwein and variants of that, but have just recently finished my first batch of dragon blood as well.
> 
> I ferment my apfelwein completely dry and do no back sweetening. I have found that the amount of carbs, if any, are negligible. I can drink many glasses without any effect on my blood sugar. I have found that this correlates well with pretty much all commercial and homemade dry wines.
> 
> I don't know much about the calories, but the link I put below says a 6 oz. glass of dry wine with 15% alcohol has about 175 calories. The calories mainly come from the alcohol, so a lower alcohol dry wine will have slightly less.
> 
> Here are a couple links that provide some good info:
> http://winefolly.com/update/carbs-in-wine/
> http://winefolly.com/update/calories-in-wine/



Thank you very much for sharing that information. I have recently been diagnosed with insulin resistance and so am trying to limit my carbs but still budget in my nightly glass of Dragon Blood. If a dry wine has little effect on your blood sugar, that definitely gives me a place to start in determining the carbs in my backsweetened varieties.

Thanks again!


----------



## indolent

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> If a dry wine has little effect on your blood sugar, that definitely gives me a place to start in determining the carbs in my backsweetened varieties.
> 
> Thanks again!



No Problem.

For my Dragon Blood, the only carbs I count are what I calculated from back sweetening. With 4 cups, I've calculated just over 1g of carbs per ounce, so your number sounds pretty close.

I've seen a few comments about backsweetening with splenda but haven't tried it yet. I may split off a couple gallons from my next batch and try splenda and maybe a half sugar/half splenda batch.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

indolent said:


> No Problem.
> 
> For my Dragon Blood, the only carbs I count are what I calculated from back sweetening. With 4 cups, I've calculated just over 1g of carbs per ounce, so your number sounds pretty close.
> 
> I've seen a few comments about backsweetening with splenda but haven't tried it yet. I may split off a couple gallons from my next batch and try splenda and maybe a half sugar/half splenda batch.



I've been contemplating this as well! I am actually going to try using monkfruit "sweetener" in an infused tequila that I make and normally add agave syrup to. I will try it for one of the 5th's and see how it turns out. It would be a little pricey to use that one for wine but Splenda or Truvia would be doable.


----------



## Ctmaro

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I've been contemplating this as well! I am actually going to try using monkfruit "sweetener" in an infused tequila that I make and normally add agave syrup to. I will try it for one of the 5th's and see how it turns out. It would be a little pricey to use that one for wine but Splenda or Truvia would be doable.



Using Splenda to back sweeten is something I have thought of trying. We just don't nee the extra sugar! 

I think I have read that some people said the wine had a slight after taste. 

I have a small batch of "2nd DB" going and ready to sweeten this week; maybe I'll use Splenda and see how it tastes.

Mark


----------



## willie

A year ago I did research relating to back sweetening wine with a healthy 0 calorie sweetener. The only one I have found to be a healthy alternative to sugar is Stevia/Truvia. I have not yet experimented with these sweeteners yet mostly because my main squeeze and I don't as yet have a suger problem. Why I don't know cause almost all processed food is infused with High Fructose Corn Syrup.
I will keep looking to make a healthier wine.

Will


----------



## Fan3car

*Clarification of instructions*

Good day all and thank you for this forum.

I started a batch of DB two days ago and I'm ready to pitch my yeast today. I have a question on covering the fermentor after "Step 2". Should I continue to only cover it with a towel or should I actually snap the lid down and put on an airlock?

Thank you in advance and I'll also apologize in advance if it's already been answered in one of the previous 318 pages of posts, many of which I read but not all of them.

Glenn


----------



## jumby

Fan3car said:


> Good day all and thank you for this forum.
> 
> I started a batch of DB two days ago and I'm ready to pitch my yeast today. I have a question on covering the fermentor after "Step 2". Should I continue to only cover it with a towel or should I actually snap the lid down and put on an airlock?
> 
> Thank you in advance and I'll also apologize in advance if it's already been answered in one of the previous 318 pages of posts, many of which I read but not all of them.
> 
> Glenn



I lay the lid on top of my fermentation bucket and cover with a towel the entire time it's in the fermenter. I never snap the lid down or use a airlock. I attach a airlock only after racking it to the carboy.


----------



## willie

After I put the yeast in the fermenter I just lay a towel over the top till it goes to dry at an SG reading of .990. the wine need lots of air and of course your stirring and squeezing the bag every day. Then I take the towel off and just lay the lid on and check the SG the next 2 days to make sure the SG stays at .990 then rack it. That's just the way I do it. 

Will


----------



## Fan3car

Thank you for the answers. Yeast is pitched and I just peeked under the towel and I've got some foam going after only three hours. I brew beer and usually don't see krausen for a day or so. Not sure if krausen is the right term in wine making but it's getting foamy. I assume that is what it should be doing.


----------



## wineinmd

Fan3car said:


> Thank you for the answers. Yeast is pitched and I just peeked under the towel and I've got some foam going after only three hours. I brew beer and usually don't see krausen for a day or so. Not sure if krausen is the right term in wine making but it's getting foamy. I assume that is what it should be doing.


Yep. You're good. I started out as a brewer as well, so the idea of not snapping down the lid at first was foreign to me. I've given it a shot on my second batch since that is what the experts recommend. I'd never seen the beginning of fermentation before, since I've never opened by brew bucket until at least 10 days had passed, but it made a thick, foamy "krausen" within 24 hours. 

It definitely makes it easier to take gravity readings and add any additions. The lip on the bottom of my brew bucket is like a knife, so it's a nice change.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

If anyone is interested, I have started a new thread detailing the results of my 0 calorie back sweetening experiments...http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=567868#post567868


----------



## SwampDog35

So let me get this right, You don't have to snap down the lid during the "Primary Fermentation Time"? Only after you put everything into the Secondary?

I've put the lid over the bucket with a towel draped over it. Is this okay?

Thanks


----------



## Kraffty

Correct SwampDog, no need to seal the primary. I'll sometimes have the SG drop low enough to rack but don't have time for a couple of days and in that instance I'd seal the bucket till you can rack.

Mike


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

SwampDog35 said:


> So let me get this right, You don't have to snap down the lid during the "Primary Fermentation Time"? Only after you put everything into the Secondary?
> 
> I've put the lid over the bucket with a towel draped over it. Is this okay?
> 
> Thanks



I never seal the primary bucket with the lid. I use a large tea towel and put a bungee cord around the bucket to hold it snugly down. I have pesky fruit flies in the summer (though they are already making an appearance), along with cats that occasionally get in my brew room so I like to make sure the towel is going to stay in place.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*Late to the Bandwagon but...*

Dragon Blood is fantastic! Yes, I know you are all scratching your heads and wondering what took me so long  Yes I am going to start another batch soon as everyone as suggested . Has dangerdave been given guru status or its equivalent?


----------



## willie

CheerfulHeart said:


> Dragon Blood is fantastic! Yes, I know you are all scratching your heads and wondering what took me so long  Yes I am going to start another batch soon as everyone as suggested . Has dangerdave been given guru status or its equivalent?



Well I don't know about guru status but, Danger Dave is certainly held in very high regard. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Just wanted to say hi to everyone since it has been pretty quiet in the thread lately. For the first time in a long time, I don't have any Dragon Blood fermenting or clearing! I figured it was time to clean up and clear out the wine cellar before I make any more. 

I found a few bottles of DB that are coming up on a year old...I think it is time to do a taste comparison to see how they have aged! I think Dave himself prefers his under 6 months old so it will be interesting to see what I and a couple (impartial...lol) testers have to say.

Anyway, I hope everyone is making great wine!


----------



## JSquared

I'm fixing to start a batch of Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart. Any input from anyone who has made it would be awesome. I've heard it has had clearing problems with some people. Also does everyone really add all of the lemon juice? It seems like a lot. I'm gonna throw it all in the fermenter this week.


----------



## wineforfun

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Just wanted to say hi to everyone since it has been pretty quiet in the thread lately. For the first time in a long time, I don't have any Dragon Blood fermenting or clearing! I figured it was time to clean up and clear out the wine cellar before I make any more.
> 
> I found a few bottles of DB that are coming up on a year old...I think it is time to do a taste comparison to see how they have aged! I think Dave himself prefers his under 6 months old so it will be interesting to see what I and a couple (impartial...lol) testers have to say.
> 
> Anyway, I hope everyone is making great wine!



Curious to see what you think of the year old DB.

I have tried numerous ones anywhere from 9mos. to 1 yr. 
For me, they are no better than the 3-4 mo. mark.


----------



## willie

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Just wanted to say hi to everyone since it has been pretty quiet in the thread lately. For the first time in a long time, I don't have any Dragon Blood fermenting or clearing! I figured it was time to clean up and clear out the wine cellar before I make any more.
> 
> I found a few bottles of DB that are coming up on a year old...I think it is time to do a taste comparison to see how they have aged! I think Dave himself prefers his under 6 months old so it will be interesting to see what I and a couple (impartial...lol) testers have to say.
> 
> Anyway, I hope everyone is making great wine!



We tasted a bottle of Original recipe last summer that was 9 months old and were disappointed. We are of the belief that, Dave's 6 Month time table is right on for us. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

wineforfun said:


> Curious to see what you think of the year old DB.
> 
> I have tried numerous ones anywhere from 9mos. to 1 yr.
> For me, they are no better than the 3-4 mo. mark.



No better, but no worse? I know some people feel that the taste notes actually deteriorate (I think Dave feels it gets a spicy undertone that he doesn't care for).


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

JSquared said:


> I'm fixing to start a batch of Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart. Any input from anyone who has made it would be awesome. I've heard it has had clearing problems with some people. Also does everyone really add all of the lemon juice? It seems like a lot. I'm gonna throw it all in the fermenter this week.



When I made mine, I used a product called Lallzyme C-Max (which is a super concentrated pectic enzyme....you use about a 1/16th of a teaspoon in a 6 gallon batch) and it cleared within the normal DB time table. I followed the recipe exactly including all of the lemon juice...I think Dave says that gives it the tart part of the Sweet Strawberry Tart.


----------



## wineforfun

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> No better, but no worse? I know some people feel that the taste notes actually deteriorate (I think Dave feels it gets a spicy undertone that he doesn't care for).



Yeah, I have had some that I noticed no difference at all and then I have had some that I felt went "flat" and actually lost some flavor.

I made a version of Jericurl's Christmas DB which I will hold on to some for a year. Curious to see how it tastes. It used numerous spices, anise and was put together a little different than the traditional DB.

I haven't and probably won't make any DB for awhile as I have other things fermenting and I don't drink it fast enough(within that 3-6 month window), plus I still have 10+ bottles on my racks.


----------



## JSquared

wineforfun said:


> Yeah, I have had some that I noticed no difference at all and then I have had some that I felt went "flat" and actually lost some flavor.
> 
> 
> 
> I made a version of Jericurl's Christmas DB which I will hold on to some for a year. Curious to see how it tastes. It used numerous spices, anise and was put together a little different than the traditional DB.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't and probably won't make any DB for awhile as I have other things fermenting and I don't drink it fast enough(within that 3-6 month window), plus I still have 10+ bottles on my racks.




I'm very interested in you Christmas variant! Have you tried it yet or are you waiting until Christmas? I would like to hear what you did, I've been thinking about doing a spiced Christmas wine.


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> I'm very interested in you Christmas variant! Have you tried it yet or are you waiting until Christmas? I would like to hear what you did, I've been thinking about doing a spiced Christmas wine.



Already did it and it is awesome. I bottled it February 28, 2015.
It has that fruit flavor with a nice hint of spice/anise. I actually added some anise seeds into my 1 gal. carboys and let them sit for two weeks, in addition to what was used in the recipe.
I couldn't find licorice root so I used star of anise. This drops alot of sediment so make sure and use a mesh bag.
I am not sure if this was a 5 or 6 gal. recipe. I think it is for 6 gal. You make pm her.

Here is the recipe. I hope Jeri doesn't mind. If so, I apologize. Make sure and give her kudos on it. It is a good one.

CHRISTMAS 2013 WINE

3 LB TRIPLE BERRY BLEND (RASP, BLUEBERRIES,BLACKBERRIES)
5 LB MIXED FRUIT BLEND (PEACHES,STRAWBERRIES,CANTALOUPE,PINEAPPLE AND GRAPES)
1 LB FIGS
2 BANANAS
1 LB DARK RAISINS
3 CLOVES
2 LICORICE ROOT STICKS, BROKEN
1 40 OZ LEMON JUICE
2 11 OZ CANS OF WHITE GRAPE CONCENTRATE
1 T TANNIN
4 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
2 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)
SUGAR TO SG OF 1.09
BOIL 1 GALLON OF WATER WITH BANANAS, RAISINS, CLOVES, LICORICE ROOT.
pasteur champagne yeast


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

wineforfun said:


> Yeah, I have had some that I noticed no difference at all and then I have had some that I felt went "flat" and actually lost some flavor.
> 
> I made a version of Jericurl's Christmas DB which I will hold on to some for a year. Curious to see how it tastes. It used numerous spices, anise and was put together a little different than the traditional DB.
> 
> I haven't and probably won't make any DB for awhile as I have other things fermenting and I don't drink it fast enough(within that 3-6 month window), plus I still have 10+ bottles on my racks.



I made the Christmas version too and really, really liked it but I have some left over as well so I am hoping it still tastes good next fall/winter.

Thanks for the input on how your DB's have held up. I too am making some other wines right now that I know will age better since I am not drinking them up fast enough. But the summer is young....lol.


----------



## willie

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I made the Christmas version too and really, really liked it but I have some left over as well so I am hoping it still tastes good next fall/winter.
> 
> Thanks for the input on how your DB's have held up. I too am making some other wines right now that I know will age better since I am not drinking them up fast enough. But the summer is young....lol.



As I have mentioned before last year our Christmas wine was Blue Blood, 100 per cent blue berry wine. It was a favorite with friends and relatives. It didn't last longer than a month or two. 
Next up another 6 gal. Batch of Danger Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart. Now this stuff really does not last long. LOL Oh boy this summer might be great if it ever stops raining.

Will


----------



## JSquared

willie said:


> As I have mentioned before last year our Christmas wine was Blue Blood, 100 per cent blue berry wine. It was a favorite with friends and relatives. It didn't last longer than a month or two.
> 
> Next up another 6 gal. Batch of Danger Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart. Now this stuff really does not last long. LOL Oh boy this summer might be great if it ever stops raining.
> 
> 
> 
> Will




When you say Blue Blood, did you use the Dragon Blood recipe and only use blueberries? I have 6 blueberry bushes so blueberries are free! I tried a non DB blueberry recipe and it took forever to ferment and I never could get it to ferment dry. I was wondering how this one turned out. I have blueberries in the freezer and on the vine. And we would welcome some rain to cool us down. We have been under a heat advisory since Monday with temps in the triple digits next week!


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> When you say Blue Blood, did you use the Dragon Blood recipe and only use blueberries? I have 6 blueberry bushes so blueberries are free! I tried a non DB blueberry recipe and it took forever to ferment and I never could get it to ferment dry. I was wondering how this one turned out. I have blueberries in the freezer and on the vine. And we would welcome some rain to cool us down. We have been under a heat advisory since Monday with temps in the triple digits next week!



I am sure that is what they used as DB can be made with any berry or melon.

The christmas version a completely different tasting DB. It really only carries the DB name with it since it is based off of that.


----------



## Fan3car

I made a batch with blueberries that will be bottled tomorrow. I used a combination of the Dragon blood recipe/technique and Skeeter Pee. I bagged 5 pounds of frozen blueberries in nylon and followed the daily steps of temp/gravity/squeeze/stir and she fermented dry in one week. Mama enjoyed her daily glass of the mixture from the hydrometer tube, even though it got progressively dryer each day. After racking and allowing to clear for.another week, I racked it, back sweetened with 5 cups of sugar and reracked it into the carboy to sit for another week. Mama made me fill a couple bottles for her to enjoy this past week and enjoy she did. I found this to be a simple, tasty beverage that is pretty much ready to drink within about 3 weeks. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Mountainjack

*Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart Recipe*

I have spent a lot of time searching here for Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart recipe without success. Would someone please point me to it.


----------



## wineinmd

Mountainjack said:


> I have spent a lot of time searching here for Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart recipe without success. Would someone please point me to it.


This is the 15th result when searching Sweet Strawberry Tart in the search box at the top....


----------



## Mountainjack

wineinmd said:


> This is the 15th result when searching Sweet Strawberry Tart in the search box at the top....



Thanks


----------



## willie

JSquared said:


> When you say Blue Blood, did you use the Dragon Blood recipe and only use blueberries? I have 6 blueberry bushes so blueberries are free! I tried a non DB blueberry recipe and it took forever to ferment and I never could get it to ferment dry. I was wondering how this one turned out. I have blueberries in the freezer and on the vine. And we would welcome some rain to cool us down. We have been under a heat advisory since Monday with temps in the triple digits next week!



Yes I used the Dragon Blood recipe making the Blue Blood. 12 lbs. of berry's plus just before bottling we decided it need a little more flavoring so we added 3oz not quite a full bottle of Brewer's Best Blueberry Fruit Flavoring. The process worked out perfect. No problems at all. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

willie said:


> Yes I used the Dragon Blood recipe making the Blue Blood. 12 lbs. of berry's plus just before bottling we decided it need a little more flavoring so we added 3oz not quite a full bottle of Brewer's Best Blueberry Fruit Flavoring. The process worked out perfect. No problems at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Will




Thanks Will! I'll have to put it on my list to try! I am starting Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart today and I have a 6 gallon batch of Sweet Tea wine clearing now. So I've gotta keep those moving along first!!

Jackie


----------



## willie

JSquared said:


> Thanks Will! I'll have to put it on my list to try! I am starting Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart today and I have a 6 gallon batch of Sweet Tea wine clearing now. So I've gotta keep those moving along first!!
> 
> Jackie



Hey I just strted another of Dave's Strawberry today also. I only used just 64 oz. of lemon juice this time. The first batch I only used 32 oz. Slowly working my way up to the 96 oz. I guess. Just not sure If we would like the 96 oz. in it or not. Seems like an awful lot of lemon juice.
It has been raining every day here this pass week warm and muggy and it looks like more of the same next week. A lot of rain for the month of June here in Central Ohio.

Will


----------



## JSquared

I followed the Sweet Strawberry Tart recipe exactly lemon juice and all! I wish we would see some rain! It's HOT Southern Hot so it's miserable outside and my blueberries won't plump up because it hasn't rained! So no Blueblood berries yet!


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*Blue Blood questions*

The Blue Blood variation sounds delicious! Some friends of mine would really like this. Would a 48 oz can of Vintner's Harvest blueberry puree in the primary be enough to boost the flavor, or should I go with the Brewer's flavoring?


----------



## willie

CheerfulHeart said:


> The Blue Blood variation sounds delicious! Some friends of mine would really like this. Would a 48 oz can of Vintner's Harvest blueberry puree in the primary be enough to boost the flavor, or should I go with the Brewer's flavoring?



One thing that has alway's been encouraged here on Dragon Blood is if you have an idea to try a different variation go ahead and try it and please let the rest of us Blood makers know the results. Your blueberry puree sounds like a great idea to boost the flavor. 

Will


----------



## quiltertoo

JSquared said:


> I followed the Sweet Strawberry Tart recipe exactly lemon juice and all! I wish we would see some rain! It's HOT Southern Hot so it's miserable outside and my blueberries won't plump up because it hasn't rained! So no Blueblood berries yet!



Be careful what you wish for. We got 7.5 inches of rain this week. I picked a gallon of blueberries in the pouring rain because I didn't want the birds to get them. I made a blueberry and blackberry db. It was really good and as soon as the blackberries are ripe I will make another blue and black blood.
Mary Lou


----------



## quiltertoo

I picked another gallon of blueberries today. That makes 3 gallons and there are still more berries to ripen. So now I am wondering if I should make a straight blue blood. For those of you who have made both the black and blue and the straight blue which do you prefer? 

Mary Lou


----------



## wineforfun

quiltertoo said:


> I picked another gallon of blueberries today. That makes 3 gallons and there are still more berries to ripen. So now I am wondering if I should make a straight blue blood. For those of you who have made both the black and blue and the straight blue which do you prefer?
> 
> Mary Lou



With all those fresh blueberries, I would look at making some traditional blueberry wine. Best of both worlds that way.


----------



## quiltertoo

I have been thinking about a traditional blueberry wine. There is a winery here in MO. that makes an excellent blueberry wine. I would love to create something similar. 

Mary Lou


----------



## JSquared

I did a traditional blueberry wine a while back and had a hard time fermenting it, it was very slow. I have heard that that is normal. It was my first blueberry so it could have been me too!


----------



## wineforfun

quiltertoo said:


> I have been thinking about a traditional blueberry wine. There is a winery here in MO. that makes an excellent blueberry wine. I would love to create something similar.
> 
> Mary Lou



Is that winery Pirtle in Weston? I picked up some blueberry wine from them last year that was awesome. Made with all juice.

I just got done bottling 2 gallons of blueberry. I was trying to mimic something similar to theirs.


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> I did a traditional blueberry wine a while back and had a hard time fermenting it, it was very slow. I have heard that that is normal. It was my first blueberry so it could have been me too!



What type of yeast did you use? and what was the fermenting temp.? Also, do you stir often? I stir all my musts twice daily.

I just did a 2 gal. batch that went pretty well(10 day ferment to dry). I used Lalvin 71B. Temp. in my house was 70 degrees. I used 9 lbs. of blueberries.


----------



## quiltertoo

wineforfun said:


> Is that winery Pirtle in Weston? I picked up some blueberry wine from them last year that was awesome. Made with all juice.
> 
> I just got done bottling 2 gallons of blueberry. I was trying to mimic something similar to theirs.



The winery is St.James Winery in St.James Missouri.They do a lot of different fruit wines and they're all good. They have a mango wine that is only available in the summer. I have been watching for it but so far not seeing it in the stores.

Mary Lou


----------



## wineinmd

I went there during school before I knew a whole lot about wine. I can remember enjoying the Catawba, but not much else. I know I didn't care for dry wine at the time.


----------



## wineforfun

quiltertoo said:


> The winery is St.James Winery in St.James Missouri.They do a lot of different fruit wines and they're all good. They have a mango wine that is only available in the summer. I have been watching for it but so far not seeing it in the stores.
> 
> Mary Lou



Ah yes, I recall seeing bottles of their wine in some of the supermarkets.
We did a 13 winery self-guided tour in the KC area and east to Baltimore Bend.


----------



## Rockets160

*2 gallon batch Dragons Blood*

I just started a 2 gallon batch of Dragon's Blood. It is my first "non-kit" batch. I was curious why the recipe calls for no cover on the primary for the first week- ish? Recipe calls for just a towel. Is this just a preference or is there a specific reason my inexperienced self is unaware of? Thanks!
Jeff


----------



## sour_grapes

Rockets160 said:


> I just started a 2 gallon batch of Dragon's Blood. It is my first "non-kit" batch. I was curious why the recipe calls for no cover on the primary for the first week- ish? Recipe calls for just a towel. Is this just a preference or is there a specific reason my inexperienced self is unaware of? Thanks!
> Jeff



Yeah, it is just a preference. You can ferment either way. By my reckoning, most of us here just put a towel on the primary or (as I do) merely loosely lay the lid on the bucket. It makes it easier to get in there and stir the must and check the SG. Some people feel it helps for the yeast to have access to oxygen during the primary. (I am not one of them.)


----------



## JSquared

Rockets160 said:


> I just started a 2 gallon batch of Dragon's Blood. It is my first "non-kit" batch. I was curious why the recipe calls for no cover on the primary for the first week- ish? Recipe calls for just a towel. Is this just a preference or is there a specific reason my inexperienced self is unaware of? Thanks!
> 
> Jeff




I'personally have to lay a lid over the bucket loosely because I have cats! I don't want anyone swimming in my wine!


----------



## wineforfun

Agree with Paul and JSquared. I just use a loose lid. I am always leery that either a. the towel may fall/droop into the primary or b. some fuzzies, etc. may come off the towel into the primary. 
Probably me being OCD but that is how I do it.


----------



## willie

I use a towel and bungee cord helps me keep the fruit fly's out. I have a bowl of wine out but they really like this new Strawberry. Can't say that I blame them it does smell pretty darn good. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

I'm fermenting the Strawberry Tart in the primary right now too. And yes it smells fabulous!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I use a towel and bungee cord as well...keeps cats and fruit flies out of the mix !


----------



## redneckwinedude

Just started a half batch of this on Tuesday. We'll see how it goes!


----------



## JSquared

Sweet Strawberry Tart question, I'm following Dave's recipe and on day 6/7/14 from his notes he said "SG .992 he added stabilizers, the strawberry daiquiri mix, Superkleer and topped off w Dragon Blood" my question, he didn't actually say that he racked the wine into a secondary carboy, was all this done in the fermenter and allowed to clear there for 2 wks or did he rack it to a carboy to clear? All of his other steps start w racking. Appreciate any help! Jackie


----------



## wineforfun

JSquared said:


> Sweet Strawberry Tart question, I'm following Dave's recipe and on day 6/7/14 from his notes he said "SG .992 he added stabilizers, the strawberry daiquiri mix, Superkleer and topped off w Dragon Blood" my question, he didn't actually say that he racked the wine into a secondary carboy, was all this done in the fermenter and allowed to clear there for 2 wks or did he rack it to a carboy to clear? All of his other steps start w racking. Appreciate any help! Jackie



I haven't made this but can guarantee, once dry, you need to get it out of the primary and off all those gross lees for it to clear properly.


----------



## JSquared

I was thinking the same thing and my plan was to rack to a carboy but his notes didn't say to, so I was wondering.


----------



## jumby

Definitely rack it to a carboy.


----------



## willie

JSquared said:


> Sweet Strawberry Tart question, I'm following Dave's recipe and on day 6/7/14 from his notes he said "SG .992 he added stabilizers, the strawberry daiquiri mix, Superkleer and topped off w Dragon Blood" my question, he didn't actually say that he racked the wine into a secondary carboy, was all this done in the fermenter and allowed to clear there for 2 wks or did he rack it to a carboy to clear? All of his other steps start w racking. Appreciate any help! Jackie



Dave's instructions on the strawberry is kinda brief. I believe he was saying when the SG reading read .992 3 days In a row rack and add chems as per original recipe. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

I ended up racking it to a carboy. Now I'm watching my beautiful strawberry smoothie looking carboy and hoping in clears into a beautiful clear wine!!!!


----------



## willie

Well after 5 days our Strawberry cleared. It has some particles floating around so I will rack it again this next week and let it stabilize another week before back sweetening the wine adding the Strawberry Extract and Red Coloring. And after that I will filter and bottle. 

Will


----------



## cheesehead

Well after the clearing issues I had with the strawberry tart recipe I decided after numurous filterings that I would bottle it for my daughters Grad / b-day & army induction party, IT WAS A GIANT HIT!!!! And after a trip to the Fawn Creek winery up in the Wisconsin Dells area to pick up a bottle of their strawberry wine to compare to , it wasnt even close. Strawberry tart blew away that stuff they bottled. Theirs smelled and tasted like a basic sweet white colored and flavored with a ton of extract and simple syrup. The only thing about mine was the color wasnt quite right as in almost pinkish/ orange and slightly cloudy but no sediment at all in any of the bottles. Gonna have to start another batch soon as I am down to 3 bottles left and orders for more are flooding in. So while Dave is on his Sabbatical I would like to thank Him and all others for the recipe and help in adding another hit to my collection , Cheers to all!!!


----------



## Ctmaro

willie said:


> Well after 5 days our Strawberry cleared. It has some particles floating around so I will rack it again this next week and let it stabilize another week before back sweetening the wine adding the Strawberry Extract and Red Coloring. And after that I will filter and bottle.
> 
> Will



I just rack, stablized, and Sparkolloid a 10 gallon batch of Strawberry DB. I don't like the artificial flavors in the Sweet Tart recipe. 

It was clear the next day. Last time it took weeks to clear. 

This time I ended up transferring from the primary to secondaries before stablization. I had 2 week trip planned and couldn't keep an eye on it as I usually do (more like following the Skeeter Pee recipe). 

Now I am wondering if this extra step is what helped it to clear? 

On top of everything else this was made with Strawberry Cubes (FlavorPak), so I didn't use strainer bags.

It will probably sit for 3 to 4 weeks before back sweetening because I am very busy this time of year. I am thinking of using Splenda to sweeten half of it.

Mark


----------



## willie

cheesehead said:


> Well after the clearing issues I had with the strawberry tart recipe I decided after numurous filterings that I would bottle it for my daughters Grad / b-day & army induction party, IT WAS A GIANT HIT!!!! And after a trip to the Fawn Creek winery up in the Wisconsin Dells area to pick up a bottle of their strawberry wine to compare to , it wasnt even close. Strawberry tart blew away that stuff they bottled. Theirs smelled and tasted like a basic sweet white colored and flavored with a ton of extract and simple syrup. The only thing about mine was the color wasnt quite right as in almost pinkish/ orange and slightly cloudy but no sediment at all in any of the bottles. Gonna have to start another batch soon as I am down to 3 bottles left and orders for more are flooding in. So while Dave is on his Sabbatical I would like to thank Him and all others for the recipe and help in adding another hit to my collection , Cheers to all!!!



Happy to here yours turned out good. The Strawberry can be a little difficult but well worth it. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Ctmaro said:


> I just rack, stablized, and Sparkolloid a 10 gallon batch of Strawberry DB. I don't like the artificial flavors in the Sweet Tart recipe.
> 
> It was clear the next day. Last time it took weeks to clear.
> 
> This time I ended up transferring from the primary to secondaries before stablization. I had 2 week trip planned and couldn't keep an eye on it as I usually do (more like following the Skeeter Pee recipe).
> 
> Now I am wondering if this extra step is what helped it to clear?
> 
> On top of everything else this was made with Strawberry Cubes (FlavorPak), so I didn't use strainer bags.
> 
> It will probably sit for 3 to 4 weeks before back sweetening because I am very busy this time of year. I am thinking of using Splenda to sweeten half of it.
> 
> Mark



Please keep us posted if you experiment with Splenda. It is still on my list to try but I haven't made a batch of DB in a while!


----------



## ou8amaus

Slightly off topic, but has anyone ever tried making a dragon blood with beer as the base? My wife prefers beer (match made in heaven, she does not drink all my big reds), but she also likes DB... so I was thinking of doing a beer kit and adding a nylon bag of thawed triple berry to primary? I figure I will need to toss the fruit with pectin enzyme to make sure I do not get a haze... any other suggestions?


----------



## wineinmd

What style beer are you planning on doing? Generally fruit additions are done in secondary (or anytime after primary fermentation has finished) to help retain the fruit flavors.


----------



## ou8amaus

I already have the beer kit ready to go, a very light pilsner style. I know she likes fruity/sweet wines, ciders, and mostly beer... I also have 4 lbs of triple berry in the freezer and thought why not combine the process of DB on the "back" of a beer kit instead of lemon juice. If I add the fruit in the primary I still have the opportunity to squeeze the fruit daily per the original DB recipe... Hopefully creating a light, fruity, dry pilsner. I have not made beer in a long time so correct me if I am wrong, but adding the fruit to the secondary would just kick the yeast back into action, at a point where you want them to calm them down prior to bottling. Unless you use the sugar present in the fruit to substitute Dextrose as the base for bottle carbing... which would seem unreliable to me.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Things have been quiet around this thread for a bit so I thought I would pop in and say hi! I have been making quite a few kit wines lately but just started another batch of DB last week. This one is for a friend who wanted a special wine for her anniversary coming up in September. She provided the fruit...blueberries, raspberries and a few tangerines thrown in just to make things interesting. I had a bag of the cranberries that are soaked in blueberry juice and I put those in just for fun as well. So that was Tuesday of last week...it was fermented out on Monday so I racked, degassed, treated, and added SuperKleer. Today it is beautifully clear already! I can't believe how quickly everything is going. I will be backsweetening today and then hopefully filtering and bottling by the first of next week...it looks like this will be my quickest Dragon Blood to date!


----------



## willie

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Things have been quiet around this thread for a bit so I thought I would pop in and say hi! I have been making quite a few kit wines lately but just started another batch of DB last week. This one is for a friend who wanted a special wine for her anniversary coming up in September. She provided the fruit...blueberries, raspberries and a few tangerines thrown in just to make things interesting. I had a bag of the cranberries that are soaked in blueberry juice and I put those in just for fun as well. So that was Tuesday of last week...it was fermented out on Monday so I racked, degassed, treated, and added SuperKleer. Today it is beautifully clear already! I can't believe how quickly everything is going. I will be backsweetening today and then hopefully filtering and bottling by the first of next week...it looks like this will be my quickest Dragon Blood to date!



I'm sure the wine will be delicious.


----------



## OhCrap

I just bottled some of my 1st db yesterday and left the rest to bulk age. It's already darn tasty, I'm not sure it the rest will age for too long [emoji12]


----------



## arcticmonster

I just did my first batch of DB - I used Presidents Choice 4 berry blend. Strawberries, Blueberries, Blackberries and Rasberries.

I didn't use lemon as it said for a more supple blush not to use it.

for my Enzynes, Tannin and Yeast Energizer and Nutrients, I used a premix bag from Vintners that my local HBS told me it was the mix for 5 gallon fruit wines. 

We will see how it goes day by day.


----------



## jumby

OhCrap said:


> I just bottled some of my 1st db yesterday and left the rest to bulk age. It's already darn tasty, I'm not sure it the rest will age for too long [emoji12]



DB doesn't really benefit from bulk ageing. The flavor pretty much peaks after about a month. Once it's clear bottle it and enjoy!


----------



## willie

arcticmonster said:


> I just did my first batch of DB - I used Presidents Choice 4 berry blend. Strawberries, Blueberries, Blackberries and Rasberries.
> 
> I didn't use lemon as it said for a more supple blush not to use it.
> 
> for my Enzynes, Tannin and Yeast Energizer and Nutrients, I used a premix bag from Vintners that my local HBS told me it was the mix for 5 gallon fruit wines.
> 
> We will see how it goes day by day.



That premix bag sounds like a nice way to do it. Please keep us informed. 

Will


----------



## willie

OhCrap said:


> I just bottled some of my 1st db yesterday and left the rest to bulk age. It's already darn tasty, I'm not sure it the rest will age for too long [emoji12]



I agree with Jumby. Bottle it all and get another batch started. It disappears fast. 

Will


----------



## wineforfun

arcticmonster said:


> I just did my first batch of DB - I used Presidents Choice 4 berry blend. Strawberries, Blueberries, Blackberries and Rasberries.
> 
> I didn't use lemon as it said for a more supple blush not to use it.
> 
> for my Enzynes, Tannin and Yeast Energizer and Nutrients, I used a premix bag from Vintners that my local HBS told me it was the mix for 5 gallon fruit wines.
> 
> We will see how it goes day by day.



So what did you add for acid? That is the main purpose of the lemon juice.


----------



## OhCrap

jumby said:


> DB doesn't really benefit from bulk ageing. The flavor pretty much peaks after about a month. Once it's clear bottle it and enjoy!




Cheers lads, I was intending only for 6 wks ageing then bottle... But sure feck it I'll bottle the lot n enjoy while the next batch is on


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

There has been some discussion here and there about how well DB ages. I think the general consensus is that it is best between 2 and 6 months and then it starts to lose some of the qualities that makes dragon blood dragon blood. So as I was cleaning up the wine cellar the other day, I found one of my first bottles of original recipe DB from July of last year. I grabbed it and a newer vintage and cracked them open for my husband, friend, and myself to taste test. We all agreed that the year old bottle was still yummy and my husband even preferred it to the younger wine. I am very happy as I have at least 30 bottles of various flavors of DB that are older than the 6 month window!


----------



## Thig

Question for those of you that have made DB before:

I have 5 gallons that has fermented dry ( SG .990) and it has cleared rather good on its own at this point. I have already added sorbate. I am thinking of making an fpac by simmering 1lb of triple berry blend and adding about 2.5 cups of sugar in a simple syrup mix and then putting this in the carboy to blend for about 10 days, then adding the Super-Kleer to settle it and bottling.

Have any of you ever added an fpac like this after it has femented dry? I realize the sugar addition is more of a personal taste thing but my experience is usually that with a completely dry wine I like about 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon in fruit wines.


----------



## arcticmonster

wineforfun said:


> So what did you add for acid? That is the main purpose of the lemon juice.



It didn't mention anything about acid at all if you decided to omit it. 

Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon (or larger) primary, add---in this order:

1 bottle (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): More or less lemon juice can be added to your taste, (i.e., if you want to reduce the acid level use less lemon juice). The acid added here will help balance the final wine. Substitutes include any other kind of citrus juice (orange, lime, etc.), or use no citrus at all for a very soft, supple blush.


----------



## wineforfun

arcticmonster said:


> It didn't mention anything about acid at all if you decided to omit it.
> 
> Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon (or larger) primary, add---in this order:
> 
> 1 bottle (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): More or less lemon juice can be added to your taste, (i.e., if you want to reduce the acid level use less lemon juice). The acid added here will help balance the final wine. Substitutes include any other kind of citrus juice (orange, lime, etc.), or use no citrus at all for a very soft, supple blush.



With no lemon juice or acid blend, it is probably going to be very flat tasting. I have made it both ways(with lemon juice and with acid blend) and prefer the lemon juice way. It has been so long since I read those instructions, I don't recall that line about omitting the juice being in there.
If you haven't bottled it yet, taste it beforehand and if you find it flat, add some acid blend at that time...............if not, just roll with it how it is.


----------



## arcticmonster

Thanks. I'll keep an eye on it.


----------



## Ctmaro

Thig said:


> Question for those of you that have made DB before:
> 
> I have 5 gallons that has fermented dry ( SG .990) and it has cleared rather good on its own at this point. I have already added sorbate. I am thinking of making an fpac by simmering 1lb of triple berry blend and adding about 2.5 cups of sugar in a simple syrup mix and then putting this in the carboy to blend for about 10 days, then adding the Super-Kleer to settle it and bottling.
> 
> Have any of you ever added an fpac like this after it has femented dry? I realize the sugar addition is more of a personal taste thing but my experience is usually that with a completely dry wine I like about 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon in fruit wines.



Hi Thig,

I have flavor pak my Strawberry DB the 2 times I have made it. I usually put the juice in when I rack, sorbate, Kmeta, and Sparkolloid. So far, the wines have turn out with a wonderful up front strawberry taste.

Mark


----------



## bkisel

My new house has a basement temperature that is a constant 64-65F... Would you ferment to dry a DB batch in that temperature? I'd pitch the yeast with a must temp of something like 70-75F but then let it do its thing. Is that too risky? Should I use my brew belt to keep the temp up because of the ambient basement temp??

Thanks...


----------



## OhCrap

Here's a pic of my first effort...


----------



## willie

OhCrap said:


> Here's a pic of my first effort...


----------



## bkisel

Looks good. I also like the label in large part for its simplicity - the less is more kinda thing.


----------



## OhCrap

Thanks for the complements 
It goes down REAL easy... I like the simple things hence the label, good wines = good vibes and that is the third batch (2 kits) I ever made #3 ;-) simples


----------



## gotbags-10

Does anyone ever check the ph of their must and attempt to bring it in range with other fruit wines?


----------



## wineforfun

bkisel said:


> My new house has a basement temperature that is a constant 64-65F... Would you ferment to dry a DB batch in that temperature? I'd pitch the yeast with a must temp of something like 70-75F but then let it do its thing. Is that too risky? Should I use my brew belt to keep the temp up because of the ambient basement temp??
> 
> Thanks...



You shoul be ok, it just may take a little longer. This is, of course, assuming you are using EC-1118. 59-86 degree fermenting range.


----------



## wineforfun

gotbags-10 said:


> Does anyone ever check the ph of their must and attempt to bring it in range with other fruit wines?



I don't with DB or other variations of it. Never had a taste issue so I just roll with it.


----------



## vennge

*Ferementing room*

I just did a batch of DB up in what i thought was a 7g pail from my brew store. After topping it all up and adding an extra cpl pounds of berries (9lbs approx total) I am lucky to have 2" of room at the top of the pail. Will I have foaming/fermenting issues touching the top. My skeeter pee rises pretty high for fermenting. Will this be similar.

I don't have a local brew shop so to the shop and back is a 3hour round trip. Also the local hardware store has the 20g Rubbermaid Brute garbage cans that many suggest to use for doing larger batches. Should I move into this? Looking for suggestions. Or do I just strain off a cpl inches from the pail and deal with it?

Thanks in advance.

Vennge


----------



## willie

vennge said:


> I just did a batch of DB up in what i thought was a 7g pail from my brew store. After topping it all up and adding an extra cpl pounds of berries (9lbs approx total) I am lucky to have 2" of room at the top of the pail. Will I have foaming/fermenting issues touching the top. My skeeter pee rises pretty high for fermenting. Will this be similar.
> 
> I don't have a local brew shop so to the shop and back is a 3hour round trip. Also the local hardware store has the 20g Rubbermaid Brute garbage cans that many suggest to use for doing larger batches. Should I move into this? Looking for suggestions. Or do I just strain off a cpl inches from the pail and deal with it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Vennge



Started a new batch yesterday and it is 2-3" from the top and the towel on the bucket is a little damp. As long as I can stir with out splashing it all over I will just let it be. Maybe I won't have to top it off in the carboy. Or not much anyway's.

Will


----------



## wineforfun

vennge said:


> I just did a batch of DB up in what i thought was a 7g pail from my brew store. After topping it all up and adding an extra cpl pounds of berries (9lbs approx total) I am lucky to have 2" of room at the top of the pail. Will I have foaming/fermenting issues touching the top. My skeeter pee rises pretty high for fermenting. Will this be similar.
> 
> I don't have a local brew shop so to the shop and back is a 3hour round trip. Also the local hardware store has the 20g Rubbermaid Brute garbage cans that many suggest to use for doing larger batches. Should I move into this? Looking for suggestions. Or do I just strain off a cpl inches from the pail and deal with it?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Vennge




Go with what you have for now. If you find it is running over the sides when stirring, you may have to get rid of some. If you are using EC-1118 yeast, it doesn't foam up real bad like some others. Just stir easy and I think you will be fine.


----------



## vennge

Will and D.J., thanks for the replies. I did that exactly that just left it as is. I am at approx 2" from top and the bag of berries was touching the lid. But after squeezing it a bit more it is all good. I'm sure if it touches the lid a bit all is good. Things were sanitized very well. Looks good and smells even better.

Cheers!
Vennge


----------



## bkisel

wineforfun said:


> You shoul be ok, it just may take a little longer. This is, of course, assuming you are using EC-1118. 59-86 degree fermenting range.



Yes, EC-11118. Thought it'd be okay. Thanks.


----------



## MrAtom

just thought I'd come through and put down what I just did  for a 10L batch

so everything is in metric as I'm in New Zealand and loving this website, 

so .....

500ml freshly squeezed Lime Juice
1kg of mixed berries
1/4 tsp tannin
10g pectolase 
1/4 tsp yeast nutrient

Let all that sit for 24 hours then pitched my champange yeast 

day 2 so far no noticeable change, Looks very nice though, was so tempted to just drink it as lime and berry juice haha


----------



## Trooper307

*Dark DB*

So here is my third batch of Dave's Dragon's Blood i have made but this time it seems a lot darker. Here were my changes"

followed the recipe and made a 5 gallon batch.

Mixed bentonite for 5 gal batch, let sit over night then added it to the must.
6 lbs frozen triple berry mix.
48oz Lemon Juice
Spring water
1 can frozen white grape juice concentrate
15c. Morena Pure cane sugar (Starting S.G. 1.075)
1 tsp Tannin
1/2 tsp sulfite
3 tsp pectic enzyme
3 tsp yeast Nutrient (divided 1tsp before pitching yeast. 1tsp when fermentation has fully started and the last 1 tsp when S.G reached 1.049)
2 tsp energizer
Lalvin RC-212 yeast

average fermentation temp was 77 degrees.

Racked to secondary when S.G. Reached 1.028
Racked again when S.G. was .098 for two days.
Added sulfite, sorbate, degassed, then added Sparkalloid.

This photo is the DB after 72 hrs of clearing today has been 7 days clearing and it still looks pretty dark. will allow it to sit for another week then rack and sweeten.

what do you guys think?


----------



## NorCal

Trooper, looks excellent!


----------



## wineforfun

Do you always make it with 1lb. per gallon?

That is the change I made to the recipe, I use 1 1/2lbs. per gallon for more flavor.

Otherwise, looks good.


----------



## Trooper307

wineforfun said:


> Do you always make it with 1lb. per gallon?
> 
> That is the change I made to the recipe, I use 1 1/2lbs. per gallon for more flavor.
> 
> Otherwise, looks good.


So I am actually using 1.2 pounds per gallon since I make mine for a 5 gallon carboy not six. I will increase the fruit to 1.5 per gallon on the next batch and compare the difference. I am interested to know if anyone else has used RC-212 yeast with their DB? I have read that the yeast help bring out the color from dark fruits.


----------



## Trooper307

gotbags-10 said:


> Does anyone ever check the ph of their must and attempt to bring it in range with other fruit wines?


I have checked the ph and acid levels in Dave's DB the first time I made a batch and the must was spot on. Since then when I make this recipe I do not test it unless I make changes to the original recipe like more berries or pineapple juice instead of lemon. If I make a wine from a recipe I find online, I always test the must the first time and write the numbers down on my printed copies for future reference. Hope thus helps.


----------



## wineforfun

Trooper307 said:


> So I am actually using 1.2 pounds per gallon since I make mine for a 5 gallon carboy not six. I will increase the fruit to 1.5 per gallon on the next batch and compare the difference. I am interested to know if anyone else has used RC-212 yeast with their DB? I have read that the yeast help bring out the color from dark fruits.



Never used RC-212 with DB. Curious to see how yours turns out. I have only used EC-1118 and 71-B.


----------



## HarvestWine

I've got a batch on the go right now and I have a question.

I've removed my fruit at 0.998 SG and I'm waiting for it to stabilize. It's been at 0.990 for the past 2 days but I have to leave tomorrow for 3 days.

Can I leave it for the 3 days? I will have no one around to check on it or stir. Or, should I check it again late tonight and if still at 0.990, rack it and complete step 4?

TIA


----------



## bkisel

Started, I believe, what is my 6th batch of DB. My first since moving to our new home in Wellsboro, PA. Wonder if DB made in PA is going to be better than DB made in CT?


----------



## ceeaton

I know the water is good around that area. We had our well tested before any drilling happend in our area for a baseline water quality at our cabin in the Canyon. The tests showed it to be "pristine" which is rather rare any more. I love our well water up there for making beer. Medium low hardness (79 mg/L CaCO3) and 8.2 pH.


----------



## Trooper307

HarvestWine said:


> I've got a batch on the go right now and I have a question.
> 
> I've removed my fruit at 0.998 SG and I'm waiting for it to stabilize. It's been at 0.990 for the past 2 days but I have to leave tomorrow for 3 days.
> 
> Can I leave it for the 3 days? I will have no one around to check on it or stir. Or, should I check it again late tonight and if still at 0.990, rack it and complete step 4?
> 
> TIA



If it is in a primary fermenter bucket with no airlock. I would rack it to the carboy attach an airlock and it will be fine till you return.


----------



## MrAtom

So I've just added kmeta and sorbate and added an extra 1kg of sugar but I've got a really odd taste. Like very high acidity taste not sure why. Only put in 500ml of lime juice which could be the case


----------



## dangerdave

Surprise!!!
The triple berry lemon combination is tart by nature. It's designed that way. Back sweetening will balance it out in the end. As with any wine, it will mellow over time. For me, six months seems to be the peak of flavor. Most of it doesn't last that long!


----------



## gotbags-10

So I just did a batch of all blackberry DB with 71-B. I really wanted a killer blackberry flavor so I got some of the blackberry concentrate from my LHBS that's made for beer or wine. BIG mistake! I even only used half the recommended amount. My DB now tastes like cough syrup. Bummer. Back to the original I guess


----------



## Ctmaro

HarvestWine said:


> I've got a batch on the go right now and I have a question.
> 
> I've removed my fruit at 0.998 SG and I'm waiting for it to stabilize. It's been at 0.990 for the past 2 days but I have to leave tomorrow for 3 days.
> 
> Can I leave it for the 3 days? I will have no one around to check on it or stir. Or, should I check it again late tonight and if still at 0.990, rack it and complete step 4?
> 
> TIA



Hey TIA,

I've done this many times. Just rack it to a carboy and put an air lock on. I have left DB after the first racking for weeks with no effects what so ever. It just gives the DB a chance to settle out the dead yeasties.

My Strawberry DB stayed under air after the 2nd racking for 6 weeks because I've been busy this summer.

Speaking of Strawberry DB, I went to bottle it, and it had fine lees. I never have had this happen before. This is 10 gallons that I back sweetened with Splenda. I have reracked, and am waiting another month to make sure the are no further lees.

I think it was from some strawberry mead I used to top up with. Its about 1 year old and I'm finding sediment in the bottles. I obiously bottled the mead too soon!

Mark


----------



## Ctmaro

gotbags-10 said:


> So I just did a batch of all blackberry DB with 71-B. I really wanted a killer blackberry flavor so I got some of the blackberry concentrate from my LHBS that's made for beer or wine. BIG mistake! I even only used half the recommended amount. My DB now tastes like cough syrup. Bummer. Back to the original I guess



When I do my 2nd racking, while making Strawberry DB, I top off with juice made from Strawberries. Simply place berries in a pot, cover with water, and lightly simmer for 20 - 30 minutes. Then strain.

I have also done this with blackberries when making regular blackberry wine.

It give the wine more of the true fruit flavor.

Mark

PS _ Welcome back Dave!


----------



## wineforfun

gotbags-10 said:


> So I just did a batch of all blackberry DB with 71-B. I really wanted a killer blackberry flavor so I got some of the blackberry concentrate from my LHBS that's made for beer or wine. BIG mistake! I even only used half the recommended amount. My DB now tastes like cough syrup. Bummer. Back to the original I guess



Next time look at making an f-pac and adding it for additional flavor. Do a search on WMT for how to make an f-pac.

This is essentially what Mark is describing.


----------



## MrAtom

Sweet  thanks Dave


----------



## vennge

I am on day 3 of clearing. It's unreal how much sediment is at the bottom and how much is just hanging in suspension. Yes I sat for 40+ mins. staring. ;-). 

My question is since we are talking about fpacs they are for the extra flavour.?Do they also sweeten enough or do you add the sugar still? I have a 6g clearing of the quad berry mix from Walmart. It looks dark and really hoping for top results. And will be back sweetening of 3/4 cup sugar / g as per recipe. So curious if you do both and how much berries should I reduce?

Thanks in advance. 

Vennge


----------



## Medic8106

Got a 6 gallon batch of BlackBerry only dragon blood brewing over the last two days. Used 9 lbs of fresh picked then frozen berries. Looks really dark! The last BlackBerry only I made turned out great! Good ferment going on today.


----------



## wineforfun

vennge said:


> I am on day 3 of clearing. It's unreal how much sediment is at the bottom and how much is just hanging in suspension. Yes I sat for 40+ mins. staring. ;-).
> 
> My question is since we are talking about fpacs they are for the extra flavour.?Do they also sweeten enough or do you add the sugar still? I have a 6g clearing of the quad berry mix from Walmart. It looks dark and really hoping for top results. And will be back sweetening of 3/4 cup sugar / g as per recipe. So curious if you do both and how much berries should I reduce?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Vennge



They are predominantly for additional flavor. You are still going to want to add some sugar. Personally, I would start with 1/2c per gal. and go from there.
Remember too, get the taste almost to where you want it as it will sweeten up a little more once in the bottle for a few months.


----------



## vennge

Sounds good and Thanks DJ. 



Vennge


----------



## MrAtom

Just thought I'd put up a photo of my first glass of DB, tastes amazing might start a blackberry and lemon one now.


----------



## quiltertoo

Oh boy! I may have messed up this new batch of mixed berry. Instead of adding 3 tsp of yeast nutrient I added 3 tsp of yeast energizer. I haven't added my yeast yet. Am I going to have a volcano or have I just ruined a batch of dragon blood?


----------



## sour_grapes

I predict it will turn out just fine!


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*Cotes du Blanc or EC-1118?*

Started a "test run" 3 gallon batch of DB today with a mix of grapes, pineapple, strawberries and peaches. It's Sunrise Farms brand Fruit Salad mix. Total weight of fruit is 3 lbs. I put in 12 ounces of lemon juice instead of 24 hoping the lemon juice will add just a little brightness. I've wanted to make a non-berry DB for quite a while but wanted a frozen mix without mango or papaya. Finally found it. 

Should I stick with good ol' EC-1118, or use Cotes du Blanc or Montrachet? I don't want to strip the flavors. Have read in this thread that strawberries, pineapple and peaches can all be a bit tricky to use. I have all 3 yeasts available so it's just a matter of opening the right packet.


----------



## quiltertoo

quiltertoo said:


> Oh boy! I may have messed up this new batch of mixed berry. Instead of adding 3 tsp of yeast nutrient I added 3 tsp of yeast energizer. I haven't added my yeast yet. Am I going to have a volcano or have I just ruined a batch of dragon blood?



UPDATE
It is 24 hours later and I went to pitch the yeast. The must appeared to already be fermenting. I took a SG reading. It has already gone down from 1.076 to 1.060. I went ahead and pitched the yeast. I think the extra yeast energizer caused a wild strain of yeast to start fermenting. Not sure what I can do. This may be my first failed batch.


----------



## Ctmaro

quiltertoo said:


> UPDATE
> It is 24 hours later and I went to pitch the yeast. The must appeared to already be fermenting. I took a SG reading. It has already gone down from 1.076 to 1.060. I went ahead and pitched the yeast. I think the extra yeast energizer caused a wild strain of yeast to start fermenting. Not sure what I can do. This may be my first failed batch.



The yeast energizer I use is dead, used yeast cells. I think there was enough live wine yeast in your energizer to start fermentation. it will be fine.

Mark


----------



## wineforfun

CheerfulHeart said:


> Started a "test run" 3 gallon batch of DB today with a mix of grapes, pineapple, strawberries and peaches. It's Sunrise Farms brand Fruit Salad mix. Total weight of fruit is 3 lbs. I put in 12 ounces of lemon juice instead of 24 hoping the lemon juice will add just a little brightness. I've wanted to make a non-berry DB for quite a while but wanted a frozen mix without mango or papaya. Finally found it.
> 
> Should I stick with good ol' EC-1118, or use Cotes du Blanc or Montrachet? I don't want to strip the flavors. Have read in this thread that strawberries, pineapple and peaches can all be a bit tricky to use. I have all 3 yeasts available so it's just a matter of opening the right packet.



EC-1118 will always work fine but look at KV-1116 or Cotes.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

@wineforfun: Thank you, DJ. Cotes it is!  I appreciate the help.


----------



## wineforfun

@CheerfulHeart Keep us posted. I have never used Cotes on any DB variation before so curious how it turns out, and your recipe in general. Good luck.


----------



## bkisel

CheerfulHeart said:


> Started a "test run" 3 gallon batch of DB today with a mix of grapes, pineapple, strawberries and peaches. It's Sunrise Farms brand Fruit Salad mix. Total weight of fruit is 3 lbs. I put in 12 ounces of lemon juice instead of 24 hoping the lemon juice will add just a little brightness. I've wanted to make a non-berry DB for quite a while but wanted a frozen mix without mango or papaya. Finally found it.
> 
> Should I stick with good ol' EC-1118, or use Cotes du Blanc or Montrachet? I don't want to strip the flavors. Have read in this thread that strawberries, pineapple and peaches can all be a bit tricky to use. I have all 3 yeasts available so it's just a matter of opening the right packet.



Why only 3 lbs. of fruit? I've used the DB recipe with 14 lbs. of peach once (turned out very nice) but otherwise have stuck to the 6 lbs. found in the DB recipe. Interesting mix of fruit, hope it turns out great for you.


----------



## wineforfun

Bill,
It looks like it is only a 3 gal. batch so Cheerful is sticking to the original recipe of 6 lbs. per 6 gallons.


----------



## quiltertoo

Ctmaro said:


> The yeast energizer I use is dead, used yeast cells. I think there was enough live wine yeast in your energizer to start fermentation. it will be fine.
> 
> Mark



Thanks for the encouraging information. You got my hopes up that all will be well.

Mary Lou


----------



## CheerfulHeart

Hi everyone! I went the lesser amount of fruit since I'm making a smaller batch. Plus Wal-Mart only had one bag of this blend available until next week. Nearest Walmart is an hour away and I was impatient to get this going  If this turns out as hoped I will stock up and bump up the amount of fruit on the next batch


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*"Fruit Salad" update*

I pitched the Cotes du Blanc yeast Monday and it is fermenting nicely. More a "high simmer" than a "rolling boil". SG is at 1.01 today if I read the hydrometer correctly. The color is murky peach, but I imagine it will improve when it clears. The fragrance is pleasant, very fruity. Looking forward to this one.


----------



## cheeselady

*Thank you!*

Hi all, I just wanted to thank the folks who recommended this recipe to me. I'm new to wine making and my first try with Mulberries (See "problems with mullberry wine" thread) didn't turn out so well. Per the suggestions there I made a 2 gal batch of Dragons Blood exactly as the recipe called for and it was fantastic! Crisp and somewhat sweet, nice enough that I gave some as gifts. See my pic! 

So I am thinking of trying a new variation - Using lime juice and frozen cherries - any thoughts how that will turn out?


----------



## MrAtom

Lime juice isn't the best, honestly I found it extremely over powering. But still drinkable


----------



## cheeselady

Thanks MrAtom, I guess I'll have to decide how much I like lime (which I am honestly quite fond of) maybe I'll do a lemon lime blend.


----------



## willie

cheeselady said:


> Thanks MrAtom, I guess I'll have to decide how much I like lime (which I am honestly quite fond of) maybe I'll do a lemon lime blend.



I did the lemon/lime blend with the Three Berry and it turned out great. 

Will


----------



## bkisel

wineforfun said:


> Bill,
> It looks like it is only a 3 gal. batch so Cheerful is sticking to the original recipe of 6 lbs. per 6 gallons.



Oops!


----------



## MrAtom

About 1 week into a lemonade and strawberry db looks amazing smells even better, had a broken hydrometer when making it. ... didn't notice the Crack in it until adding to much sugar..... gonna be awfully alcoholic..... but oh well I'll rack it this coming weekend and give it a taste


----------



## Ecam1234

Hello all, I'm on my first batch of DB and I can't get over how fast it's fermenting! 
9/4 s.g =1.088
9/7 s.g.= 1.032

It will be done in no time at this rate! Pretty neat.


----------



## wineforfun

cheeselady said:


> Hi all, I just wanted to thank the folks who recommended this recipe to me. I'm new to wine making and my first try with Mulberries (See "problems with mullberry wine" thread) didn't turn out so well. Per the suggestions there I made a 2 gal batch of Dragons Blood exactly as the recipe called for and it was fantastic! Crisp and somewhat sweet, nice enough that I gave some as gifts. See my pic!
> 
> So I am thinking of trying a new variation - Using lime juice and frozen cherries - any thoughts how that will turn out?



I had real good luck using lime juice. I made a variation of Dave's Tropical Daze and used lime juice instead of lemon juice.
I would certainly give the lime juice a try and then you can either a. not use it again if you don't like or b. dial back the amount used or add to it, if need be or c. you may like it.

I make a wine that I ferment Real Lemon and Real Lime juice into alcohol. Then rack on top of numerous variations such as cranberry or cherry or strawberry/kiwi, etc. All Old Orchard 100% juice concentrate.


----------



## CGish

Initiating my new 20 gallon brute primary with a 12 gallon batch of this wine. Will see how the BrewPi controlled freezer / fermentation chamber handles the larger volume container.


----------



## Ecam1234

wineforfun said:


> I had real good luck using lime juice. I made a variation of Dave's Tropical Daze and used lime juice instead of lemon juice.
> I would certainly give the lime juice a try and then you can either a. not use it again if you don't like or b. dial back the amount used or add to it, if need be or c. you may like it.
> 
> I make a wine that I ferment Real Lemon and Real Lime juice into alcohol. Then rack on top of numerous variations such as cranberry or cherry or strawberry/kiwi, etc. All Old Orchard 100% juice concentrate.



How many cans of concentrate? Thanks...


----------



## wineforfun

Ecam1234 said:


> How many cans of concentrate? Thanks...



If you are talking about the last part of my post(the lemon/lime juice ferment), then I use approx. 1 can per gal. 
You have to experiment to get the flavor where you want it. 

For me, I use 11oz. concentrate and between 1/4-3/8c sugar per gallon. It makes a semi-sweet finished product.


----------



## jumby

Has anybody tried Dave's recipe with fresh apple cider? I want to try making some apple wine from fresh cider.


----------



## Ecam1234

wineforfun said:


> If you are talking about the last part of my post(the lemon/lime juice ferment), then I use approx. 1 can per gal.
> You have to experiment to get the flavor where you want it.
> 
> For me, I use 11oz. concentrate and between 1/4-3/8c sugar per gallon. It makes a semi-sweet finished product.



Yep that was it! Thanks!


----------



## wineforfun

@Ecam1234
I actually got this recipe from ffemt128(Doug) on here. I can give it to you via Message if you would like. I don't want to hijack the DB thread. I will say it is very straight forward and makes a great early drinker like DB. It is probably easier to make than DB plus it's ready to drink in approx. 1 mo. from pitching yeast. It gets a little better with some time in the bottle but nothing drastic.


----------



## Ecam1234

Sounds great! Thx!


----------



## Ecam1234

Ecam1234 said:


> Hello all, I'm on my first batch of DB and I can't get over how fast it's fermenting!
> 9/4 s.g =1.088
> 9/7 s.g.= 1.032
> 
> It will be done in no time at this rate! Pretty neat.



It was at .994 today. Squeezed the wine out of the fruit packs and discarded them. We'll see where it's at tomorrow.


----------



## Tony49

Read through fifty some posts and figured I'd join the fun.
Making the original recipe. Only changes are: 30 oz. of the Realemon (store only carries 15oz. containers) and everything going into a 5 gallon carboy. If needed I'll adjust later with acid blend.
SG is 1.075 on the button.
Thinking about using Lalvin KI-V1116 after 24 hours. 
This will be the largest batch of anything that I've made. Usually do 3 gallon batches.
Cheers!
Tony...


----------



## Ecam1234

Ecam1234 said:


> It was at .994 today. Squeezed the wine out of the fruit packs and discarded them. We'll see where it's at tomorrow.





This thing is at .990 today. It should be safe to proceed now right? Or should I wait the three days? Thanks....


----------



## wineforfun

Ecam1234 said:


> This thing is at .990 today. It should be safe to proceed now right? Or should I wait the three days? Thanks....



You will be fine to move forward.


----------



## Ecam1234

wineforfun said:


> You will be fine to move forward.



Thx. Moving forward!


----------



## Ecam1234

Well the original DB is in the carboy clearing and a batch of tropical is in the primary! SG on this one is 1.080 but there is twelve pounds of fruit in there so I think that will increase somewhat.


----------



## Ecam1234

The tropical is already at .990. Pitched the yeast on 9/12. Does that seem too fast?


----------



## CGish

Ecam1234 said:


> The tropical is already at .990. Pitched the yeast on 9/12. Does that seem too fast?



Any temperature control? What where the fermentation temps?


----------



## Ecam1234

CGish said:


> Any temperature control? What where the fermentation temps?



Temps ranged from 76-79 the whole time.


----------



## Ecam1234

The original DB was started on 9/2. Racked into carboy on 9/11. Racked today and sweetened with 4 cups of sugar. At first it kind of tasted like crap but after chilling a bit and a little extra sugar it's not that bad. Hope it gets even better as time goes on. Super easy process. Thanks, Dave!


----------



## CGish

Ecam1234 said:


> Temps ranged from 76-79 the whole time.



I think you are about right.

I have a 12 gallon batch that is fermenting a 68 degrees. I started it on 9/8 and pitched the yeast on 9/9. Here are the daily gravity readings:

The O.G. was 1.076 @ 68°.
Day 2 was 1.076 @ 67°.
Day 3 was 1.076 @ 67.7°.
Day 4 was 1.066 @ 68°.
Day 5 was 1.040 @ 68°.
Day 6 was 1.026 @ 68°.
Day 7 was 1.012 @ 68°.
Day 8 was 1.000 @ 68°.
Day 9 was 0.992 @ 68°. (Today - 9/17)

You don't say if your temperatures are ambient or must temps, but you are 10+ degrees hotter than what I am running. It is definitely possible that it is done. Just make sure you have three consecutive days of stable gravity readings and you can move to racking.

Edit - Just saw your latest post. If you started on 9/2 instead of 9/12 and your gravity is stable, then yes you are done. Hope it turns out well for you!


----------



## willie

Ecam1234 said:


> Temps ranged from 76-79 the whole time.



I always want to see the .990 reading for 2 or 3 days to make sure the ferment has stopped. Too fast? I don't think so. We really like our Tropical DB. It is a nice change of pace from the Berry flavors.

Will


----------



## Ecam1234

CGish said:


> I think you are about right.
> 
> I have a 12 gallon batch that is fermenting a 68 degrees. I started it on 9/8 and pitched the yeast on 9/9. Here are the daily gravity readings:
> 
> The O.G. was 1.076 @ 68°.
> Day 2 was 1.076 @ 67°.
> Day 3 was 1.076 @ 67.7°.
> Day 4 was 1.066 @ 68°.
> Day 5 was 1.040 @ 68°.
> Day 6 was 1.026 @ 68°.
> Day 7 was 1.012 @ 68°.
> Day 8 was 1.000 @ 68°.
> Day 9 was 0.992 @ 68°. (Today - 9/17)
> 
> You don't say if your temperatures are ambient or must temps, but you are 10+ degrees hotter than what I am running. It is definitely possible that it is done. Just make sure you have three consecutive days of stable gravity readings and you can move to racking.
> 
> Edit - Just saw your latest post. If you started on 9/2 instead of 9/12 and your gravity is stable, then yes you are done. Hope it turns out well for you!



That was the original DB. Tropical started on 9/11.


----------



## Ecam1234

willie said:


> I always want to see the .990 reading for 2 or 3 days to make sure the ferment has stopped. Too fast? I don't think so. We really like our Tropical DB. It is a nice change of pace from the Berry flavors.
> 
> Will



Thanks for the reassurance Willie. Just tried my first taste of the original.....I think I can work with this...lol


----------



## Ecam1234

CGish said:


> I think you are about right.
> 
> I have a 12 gallon batch that is fermenting a 68 degrees. I started it on 9/8 and pitched the yeast on 9/9. Here are the daily gravity readings:
> 
> The O.G. was 1.076 @ 68°.
> Day 2 was 1.076 @ 67°.
> Day 3 was 1.076 @ 67.7°.
> Day 4 was 1.066 @ 68°.
> Day 5 was 1.040 @ 68°.
> Day 6 was 1.026 @ 68°.
> Day 7 was 1.012 @ 68°.
> Day 8 was 1.000 @ 68°.
> Day 9 was 0.992 @ 68°. (Today - 9/17)
> 
> You don't say if your temperatures are ambient or must temps, but you are 10+ degrees hotter than what I am running. It is definitely possible that it is done. Just make sure you have three consecutive days of stable gravity readings and you can move to racking.
> 
> Edit - Just saw your latest post. If you started on 9/2 instead of 9/12 and your gravity is stable, then yes you are done. Hope it turns out well for you!



Thanks for the replies CGish!


----------



## JSquared

I'm thinking about making the Tropical Daze variant of DB next. What fruits are in it? I bought a bunch of individual fruit bags of tropical fruits from the Dollar store and I'm wondering about how many pounds of each fruit and what kinds of fruits most people have found success with! Thanks in advance!!


----------



## willie

JSquared said:


> I'm thinking about making the Tropical Daze variant of DB next. What fruits are in it? I bought a bunch of individual fruit bags of tropical fruits from the Dollar store and I'm wondering about how many pounds of each fruit and what kinds of fruits most people have found success with! Thanks in advance!!



At Wally World they have The Great Value Brand. Both their Mixed or Tropical bags work just great. I have used 12# of the Mixed Fruit - Strawberry, Mango, Peaches, pineapple. Papaya is another fruit they use also I believe in the Tropical blend. That should give you a good idea what to use. I also used 2 cans of Welches 100% White frozen grape juice in each batch for added body. 
Hope this helps. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

willie said:


> At Wally World they have The Great Value Brand. Both their Mixed or Tropical bags work just great. I have used 12# of the Mixed Fruit - Strawberry, Mango, Peaches, pineapple. Papaya is another fruit they use also I believe in the Tropical blend. That should give you a good idea what to use. I also used 2 cans of Welches 100% White frozen grape juice in each batch for added body.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> Will




I have individual bags with Mango, Peach, Pineapple and Strawberry. So I'm thinking my fruits are fine, now I just have to figure out a ratio.


----------



## JetJockey

All of those fruits take a lot of fruit to add a stronger flavor, compared to the berry blends. Don't have experience with pineapple, though. Strawberry and Mango take 1.5-2X as much for the same strength flavor as blue or blackberries.


----------



## gotbags-10

Ok so I have a batch of DB that is currently 3 weeks old. It's in a carboy and has been cleared. I'm ready to rack and sweeten. However I think I want to try an f-pac for some extra flavor this time. However after reading about them I should've added before clearing. My issue is I need this wine ready in 3 weeks. If I add the fpac I assume it will cloud the wine a bunch? What I was thinking about doing is cold crashing to help drop any haze or sediment from the fpac. I do it with all my beers and it works wonders. Any reason it wouldn't work here? Or will it clear in 3 weeks on its own?


----------



## Ecam1234

I have a batch of original DB that I started on 9/2. I racked into a carboy on 9/11 and added sulfite, sorb ate and de gassed. Then added sparkolloid per directions. On 9/17 I sweetened with 4 cups sugar. Tasted on 9/22 and added a can of frozen strawberry daquri mix and stirred. I noticed today that there is a little activity in the bubbler. Very slow but i saw it bubble a couple times. Of coarse I haven't taken a s.g. Since I moved it into the carboy. Should I add sorbate again? Thanks.....


----------



## Ecam1234

Also it was pretty clear before I added the frozen concentrate. Not so much now.


----------



## Ecam1234

Could it be reacting to changing temps? The house is cooling down pretty good now and I have not seen it bubble in a while.


----------



## freqflyer

I have a batch of triple berry blend that's clear.

I was thinking of sweetening with something other than sugar. What are some suggestions for an fpac?


----------



## sour_grapes

Could be just degassing. I would check the SG now, and monitor it to see if it changes.


----------



## gotbags-10

freqflyer said:


> I have a batch of triple berry blend that's clear.
> 
> I was thinking of sweetening with something other than sugar. What are some suggestions for an fpac?




I've used Welche's frozen berry concentrate before


----------



## Thig

freqflyer said:


> I have a batch of triple berry blend that's clear.
> 
> I was thinking of sweetening with something other than sugar. What are some suggestions for an fpac?



I bought a 1lb package of the triple berry, mashed it in a pot on low heat and added some simple syrup to it. I then strained it through a tea strainer, it turned out great.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*Fruit Salad "test batch" update *

My 3 gallon test batch is finished and ready to bottle.  I backsweetened the 3 gallons with 2 1/4 cups of sugar and it is just right for my taste preference.  I will definitely make a full 6 gallon batch. The Sunrise Farm Fruit Salad blend of peach, pineapple, strawberry and grape turned out VERY nice. If I didn't know the fruit blend used, I would say this is a pleasant white wine with hints of peach and pineapple. This was a fun experiment and I will make this again in the Springtime for drinking next Summer.


----------



## willie

CheerfulHeart said:


> My 3 gallon test batch is finished and ready to bottle.  I backsweetened the 3 gallons with 2 1/4 cups of sugar and it is just right for my taste preference.  I will definitely make a full 6 gallon batch. The Sunrise Farm Fruit Salad blend of peach, pineapple, strawberry and grape turned out VERY nice. If I didn't know the fruit blend used, I would say this is a pleasant white wine with hints of peach and pineapple. This was a fun experiment and I will make this again in the Springtime for drinking next Summer.



The fruit in your Sunrise Farm Salad sounds much like the Tropical D.B. me and others make on here. Glad it turned out well. The Tropical blends I have made is a favorite of mine. The Three Berry Original (raspberry,blackberry,blurberry) is definitely my favorite. 

Will


----------



## freqflyer

Do you add one can or more?


----------



## JSquared

Has anyone used apples to make a Dragon Blood variation? I have a bunch of fresh apples and I need an idea of what to do with them.


----------



## JSquared

Question, did I mess up!?! I just put together a batch of Dragon Blood-Tropical Daze variant and I didn't add as much sugar as I usually do before checking SG but it is already 1.102! I usually don't go over 1.09 so am I still okay? I guess the pineapple juice and white grape juice concentrate had more sugar that I thought they did. Ideas?


----------



## JSquared

JSquared said:


> Question, did I mess up!?! I just put together a batch of Dragon Blood-Tropical Daze variant and I didn't add as much sugar as I usually do before checking SG but it is already 1.102! I usually don't go over 1.09 so am I still okay? I guess the pineapple juice and white grape juice concentrate had more sugar that I thought they did. Ideas?




I plan to use EC 1118 so I'm thinking it can handle the higher alcohol level. It can handle up to 18% ABV and I shouldn't go over 15%ABV. It wasn't my plan to go that high but I guess I'll let it ride.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Dave, I made my own version (lemon/lime mixed fruit with extra blueberries) last winter and wasn't that impressed when it was time to drink it and neither was my wife. So I let it sit for months. Took another try at it tonight and have to say it is very very good. My wife said "you better hide that from me." Yes, those months wait made a big difference. To anyone who is not satisfied with their version i advise just give it time. Also, just started an original recipe version last week.


----------



## willie

JSquared said:


> I plan to use EC 1118 so I'm thinking it can handle the higher alcohol level. It can handle up to 18% ABV and I shouldn't go over 15%ABV. It wasn't my plan to go that high but I guess I'll let it ride.



Hey I know you know your stuff so all I can say is what lack of fruit flavor you may not have with the higher ABV you should get a kick out of it. LOL

Will


----------



## JimmyT

JSquared said:


> I plan to use EC 1118 so I'm thinking it can handle the higher alcohol level. It can handle up to 18% ABV and I shouldn't go over 15%ABV. It wasn't my plan to go that high but I guess I'll let it ride.




You could always make a second batch with less sugar than normal and blend the two together to meet in the middle of the abv that you want. Nothing wrong with having double the wine you intended to have!


----------



## Avantjour

*Muscadine Triple Berry Wine...*

Yesterday was bottling day for me. 

I bottled 30 bottles of Muscadine Triple Berry Wine. 

Great color and flavor.


----------



## JSquared

Avantjour said:


> Yesterday was bottling day for me.
> 
> 
> 
> I bottled 30 bottles of Muscadine Triple Berry Wine.
> 
> 
> 
> Great color and flavor.




Did you use the dragon blood recipe and add muscadines? I love muscadine wines!


----------



## Avantjour

*Muscadine Triple Berry Wine...*



JSquared said:


> Did you use the dragon blood recipe and add muscadines? I love muscadine wines!



Yes, JSquared, 

I had 8 # of Muscadines and 6 # of Triple Berries. I thawed and destemmed the Muscadines, them into a filter bag. 

I put the Berries in a filter bag as well.

I pressed the fruit in my Wine Press. 

Skins and juice went into the fermenter. 

Skins remained in the filter bags.

Midway through fermentation I added more Pectic Enzyme and Yeast Nutrient.

After fermentation the skins were removed, pressed again and discarded. 

The juice was returned to fermenter for topping up.

I used Super Kleer.

When it came time to Back Sweeten I used 3 cups of Cane Sugar.


----------



## JSquared

Avantjour said:


> Yes, JSquared,
> 
> 
> 
> I had 8 # of Muscadines and 6 # of Triple Berries. I thawed and destemmed the Muscadines, them into a filter bag.
> 
> 
> 
> I put the Berries in a filter bag as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I pressed the fruit in my Wine Press.
> 
> 
> 
> Skins and juice went into the fermenter.
> 
> 
> 
> Skins remained in the filter bags.
> 
> 
> 
> Midway through fermentation I added more Pectic Enzyme and Yeast Nutrient.
> 
> 
> 
> After fermentation the skins were removed, pressed again and discarded.
> 
> 
> 
> The juice was returned to fermenter for topping up.
> 
> 
> 
> I used Super Kleer.
> 
> 
> 
> When it came time to Back Sweeten I used 3 cups of Cane Sugar.




This sounds wonderful! I may have to save your recipe and try it next year. We didn't get any muscadines this season. The deer however had a muscadine party! I may still try it if I find them cheap enough at a farmers market! I love the wines from the Duplin winery in NC because they have muscadine wines. Love the recipe twist you did!


----------



## gaboy

Avonjour, HOW DID IT TASTE!!!!


----------



## Avantjour

*Muscadine Triple Berry Wine*



gaboy said:


> Avonjour, HOW DID IT TASTE!!!!



gaboy,

The Muscadine Triple Berry wine tastes fresh, it's only been in bottles for three days.

It's mildly sweet, slightly tart, as most Dragon Blood wines seem to be. 

There is a light hint of what I would describe as a musk flavor of the Muscadine wines that I have tried.

My starting Specific Gravity was 1.092, so it's got some alcohol to it.

I used EC 1118 yeast, fermented to dry, Back Sweetened with 3 cups cane sugar. So it's not overly sweet.

We were fortunate in getting beneficial rain this summer for the Muscadine crop in Southeast Texas.


----------



## JSquared

Avonjour, you must have red muscadines. We have golden muscadines on our property here in South Carolina. I think they have a slightly milder flavor. How much lemon juice did you use?


----------



## Avantjour

*Muscadine Triple Berry Wine...*



JSquared said:


> Avonjour, you must have red muscadines. We have golden muscadines on our property here in South Carolina. I think they have a slightly milder flavor. How much lemon juice did you use?



JSquared,

I used 24 oz. of Real Lemon Juice.


----------



## gaboy

Thanks for all the info!! I have 6 muscadine vines, both white and black, so I need to try this!!!


----------



## Avantjour

*Muscadine - Triple Berry Dragon Blood Wine Recipe*

Muscadine - Triple Berry Dragon Blood Wine Recipe

This is what I did with Dave's wonderful Dragon Blood recipe...
08-10-15 

Sanitize ( Star San ) all that will come in contact with Must...

1 bottle ( 24 oz ) 100% Lemon Juice
Water to four ( 4 ) gallons
10 # or 22 cups of Granulated Cane Sugar
1 tsp Tannin ( stir ) 
3 tsp Yeast Nutrient 
1 tsp Yeast Energizer 
3 tsp Pectic Enzyme 
1 tsp Bentonite, rehydrated in 1/2 cup hot water, cool before adding 
Original SG 1.095 

6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend, thawed, placed in filter bags and press, place juice and bagged skins into fermenter.

1/2 cup of Untoasted American White Oak Powder into one of the five gallon paint filter bags of fruit and tie up, place into fermenter. 

8 # Muscadines, frozen, thaw, destemmed, into one - five gallon paint filter bags and tie up, and press, place juice and bagged skins into fermenter. 

Top water to six ( 6 ) gallons and stir well
Let sit undisturbed for 12 - 24 hours... Temp should be around 70 – 80 F

Pitch Yeast, Lalvin EC 1118, Rehydrated in 1 C warm water with 2 t Sugar for 15 min.

Cover fermenter with lid, cover with a towel, don't snap down or add an air lock.
Add Brew Belt if needed.
Sanitize ( Star San ) all that will come in contact with Must...

Halfway through the fermentation I added, 
3 tsp Pectic Enzyme 
3 tsp Yeast Nutrient 

When the SG drops to <1.000, I did the following: 
( This wine's Final SG 0.990 )

08-21-15 - Press F Packs, place juice back into fermenter, discard fruit packs. 
Bring water level up to 6 gallon mark, and let rest a week.

08-28-15 - Racked to a 6 gallon Carboy, Degassed, added K Meta & K Sorbate, 
Add 1/4 tsp Potassium Metabisulfite, dissolved in half cup cool water and stir 
Add 3 tsp Potassium Sorbate, dissolved in half cup cool water and stir 
Back Sweeten with three cups Cane Sugar, add one oz. of Glycerine.
Add part one of Super Kleer, stir, wait 1 hour and add part two, stir 
Add Airlock.
Let rest one month.

09-29-15 - Bottle... Enjoy


----------



## JSquared

Avantjour, thanks for posting the recipe! I saved it on my iPad until I can get some muscadines to try it. I always love hearing about variants of Dragon Blood. I'm making the Tropical Daze variant now.


----------



## Avantjour

*Muscidine Triple Berry Dragon Blood Wine...*



JSquared said:


> Avantjour, thanks for posting the recipe! I saved it on my iPad until I can get some muscadines to try it. I always love hearing about variants of Dragon Blood. I'm making the Tropical Daze variant now.



Bienvenue, I to like to see all the variants to Dave's Dragon Blood. It's amazing how one recipe can be so versatile to so many wine makers.

Your Tropical Daze looks very interesting. I may have to try that one. 

I've recently put together a Beer Keezer. I'll have to post about it soon.

My daughter came over this evening and pulled a glass of Coopers Irish Stout and splashed some Dragons Blood in it. 
It was good. Lol 

Take care...


----------



## mforney12

Two questions on original recipe:
1. No bentonite to start?
2. Can you omit all the lemon/citrus at the start and add some later after sample tasting (before bottling)?


----------



## Jericurl

Well, I just did the last racking for the 2015 Christmas Dragon's Blood.
12 gallons total!

I left one 6 gallon carboy as is and just backsweetened with a half quart of honey.

For the second 6 gallon carboy I added an additional 1/2 stick ceylon cinnamon, 3 cloves, 2 star anise, and 1 vanilla bean (split and scraped). I backsweetened this one with the other 1/2 quart of honey.

They are both really, really good.
I'm not noticing a decline in flavor at all. 
Next week we will bottle and then let them do their thing for a couple of months before they go out for Christmas.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the recipe and the tweaks, though I am thinking that Christmas 2016 batch will have just a tad more elderberries added.


----------



## Jericurl

mforney12 said:


> Two questions on original recipe:
> 1. No bentonite to start?
> 2. Can you omit all the lemon/citrus at the start and add some later after sample tasting (before bottling)?



It's your wine. You can do whatever you want to it.


Bentonite is generally used to aid in producing a crystal clear wine.
DB comes out pretty clear after using Sparkoloid or SuperKleer, you won't be aging it for a very long time, etc, so bentonite isn't strictly needed. You can add it if you want, just probably a waste of time and effort since normally you go from primary to all gone in under 6 months.

You can omit the lemon/citrus, but you won't be making DB. If you decide to go that route, you will probably want to up your fruit content. Using so much citrus/lemon juice up front is what gives DB it's main flavor base, the fruit usually just plays backup/harmony to the lemon.
Take away the lemon and you are left with a 6 gallon batch of wine made using 6 lbs of fruit. Not very appealing.
I have made DB using half of the lemon amount called for and it came out fine, just know that if you omit it, you will want to add in something for the main flavor profile.


----------



## CGish

Started this on 9/8/15. This is a glass from the backsweetening, filtering, and racking tonight:







Amazingly, this is drinkable just as it is. I can't wait to see what a little age will do to this batch. Probably a good thing I have thirteen gallons, because this is going to go fast. Had a little difficulty with the filtering aspect of my AllInOneWinePump, but I have a few ideas about what the problem might be. If I can't figure it out, I'll call Steve!


----------



## vacuumpumpman

@CGish 

Please look and review this post - 
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37737

Are you using the recommend filter housing - this one does not have the release button on top. 

You know if you have any questions you can PM me and I will get back with you


----------



## CGish

vacuumpumpman said:


> @CGish
> 
> Please look and review this post -
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37737
> 
> Are you using the recommend filter housing - this one does not have the release button on top.
> 
> You know if you have any questions you can PM me and I will get back with you



I will give you a call if I cannot figure it out. I have the housing without the bleeder valve. However, I could not stop air from coming in on the inlet side. I think the issue is that the barbs threaded all the way into the base of the housing by hand - even with Teflon tape. I may need to add a nipple, buy a different set of barbs, or just wrap a lot more tape around the threads. I'll work with it a little more tomorrow. On the bright side, the wine sure is clear. Hopefully the vacuum kept the air from affecting the wine too much. I added an extra dose of K-Meta just to make sure. I am sure it is something simple.


----------



## Hordak

*Dragonblood or Strawberry Tart*

If I can squeeze in either a Dragon Blood or Strawberry Tart this fall what would be be my best choice for first time doing either of these brews?
Which has a bit more body that may fit with winter better?
Thanks for your input.
Cory


----------



## Trooper307

JSquared said:


> I plan to use EC 1118 so I'm thinking it can handle the higher alcohol level. It can handle up to 18% ABV and I shouldn't go over 15%ABV. It wasn't my plan to go that high but I guess I'll let it ride.



It will ferment dry. The SG is not that high. Also you are using 1118 yeast. It nay just take an extra day or two. Just let it ride.


----------



## willie

Hordak said:


> If I can squeeze in either a Dragon Blood or Strawberry Tart this fall what would be be my best choice for first time doing either of these brews?
> Which has a bit more body that may fit with winter better?
> Thanks for your input.
> Cory



Hello and welcome. I did the Original 3 Berry the 1st 2 6 gal. batches of D.B. I made. I would say to do the 3 or 4 Berry recipe a couple of times first to get the process down. The Strawberry Tart can be a little tricky and having some experience with the original recipe will definitly help you out learning how the process works. Don't hesitate to ask for help. There are some great wine makers on here and there are no stupid questions. 

Will


----------



## Jericurl

Hordak said:


> If I can squeeze in either a Dragon Blood or Strawberry Tart this fall what would be be my best choice for first time doing either of these brews?
> Which has a bit more body that may fit with winter better?
> Thanks for your input.
> Cory



I would do the DB. If you want something a bit more rich, you can throw in several bananas to assist with body and maybe a handful of dried elderberries(not too much or it will need some time to age out).


----------



## CGish

My batch will be ready to bottle next Monday, but there is a problem. I keep going down to the top up bottle and pouring glasses of this stuff. I only have 13 gallons and my top up bottle is all ready empty. If I keep this up, I'll be siphoning glasses out of the carboy. Any advice on how to deal with this problem?


----------



## willie

CGish said:


> My batch will be ready to bottle next Monday, but there is a problem. I keep going down to the top up bottle and pouring glasses of this stuff. I only have 13 gallons and my top up bottle is all ready empty. If I keep this up, I'll be siphoning glasses out of the carboy. Any advice on how to deal with this problem?



Start another batch ASAP.


----------



## JSquared

just finished bottling a batch of Dragon Blood and Sweet Strawberry Tart. I have a batch of Tropical Daze in secondary clearing now!


----------



## JSquared

Has anyone ever done a Christmas variant of Dragon Blood? I would love to do a Christmas wine this year, if I still have time. Dragon blood would be the fastest to drinking wine to use. Any ideas???


----------



## Jericurl

JSquared said:


> Has anyone ever done a Christmas variant of Dragon Blood? I would love to do a Christmas wine this year, if I still have time. Dragon blood would be the fastest to drinking wine to use. Any ideas???



Yes. I'll be bottling 6 gallons today and another 6 of it tomorrow.

@Wineforfun made some as well, and I think Val did too if I remember correctly.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=569565&postcount=3192

ETA: I decided to spice up one of the carboys and leave one the same as what I did last year. I back sweetened both with a 1/2 quart of honey. I added an additional 1/2 stick ceylon cinnamon, 3 cloves, 2 star anise, and 1 vanilla bean (split and scraped) to one of the carboys and so far I think I like it best.


----------



## JSquared

Did you follow the recipe exactly as written on the original recipe? Also I see the recipe is vague on whether it is 5 gal or 6 gal, which did you go with? I'm gonna get all the stuff and throw it together tomorroe


----------



## Jericurl

It's 6 gallons, and I more or less followed instructions on the original DB recipe.

And of course, you can sub out or skip any of the spices/herbs, etc.
I know licorice root isn't always easy to find, I just used stuff I had around the house that I needed to get rid of.


----------



## JSquared

I'm not really a "spice" girl so I'm going to be buying what I use so I wanted to get the ones that would be the best for the recipe.


----------



## Jericurl

Then I would go with ceylon cinnamon if you can find it, star anise, cloves, and the vanilla bean.


----------



## JSquared

Jericurl, thanks for all the help! I'm going to gather supplies tomorrow to get started!


----------



## Jericurl

Actually, hold on and let me go and get my wine log....I'm not seeing a couple of things in that recipe.

eta: My first Christmas batch I made as above. That was for Christmas 2013.
I made a few changes for this batch, mainly I wanted more fruit and then just used the spices/herbs I had on hand.

Ok, here is what I have written in my brew log for a 10 gallon batch (that actually ended up being 12 gallons).

* 3 bags of the 5 lb mixed frozen fruit (peaches, cantaloupe, strawberry, pineapple)
* 2 lbs cranberry (heat til bursting, then cool and add to must)
* 5 lbs strawberry
* 2 lbs figs
* 1 lb currants 
* 4 lbs blueberries
* 3 lbs raspberry
* 2 cups of dried hibiscus flowers
* 1.25 oz dried elderberries
* 1 40 oz container of lemon juice
* 2 cans white grape concentrate
* 2 T tannin
* 8 tsp nutrient
* 4 tsp energizer
* 6 tsp pectic enzyme

I basically decided to clean out my freezer and use all the fruit in it for this one batch. Obviously, this much fruit is not needed and I think this more followed a freezer clean out wine than a true Dragon's Blood. 

For spices I added 3 star anise, 1 cinnamon stick, 1 vanilla pod in primary.

I do like this one better than the Christmas DB from 2013, but they were both delicious and definitely drinkable in 2 months time.


----------



## JSquared

Jericurl, thanks for all the help, I decided to go with the original but add the cranberries, star anise and cinnamon from your recipe, I can't find vanilla beans but I'm still looking. I'll try some specialty grocery stores!


----------



## JSquared

Wow! I just started Jericurl's Christmas wine and I'm simmering the figs, cranberries and raisins with the spices and my house smells amazing! It's like Christmas has started early in my house!


----------



## wineforfun

Jericurl said:


> Actually, hold on and let me go and get my wine log....I'm not seeing a couple of things in that recipe.
> 
> eta: My first Christmas batch I made as above. That was for Christmas 2013.
> I made a few changes for this batch, mainly I wanted more fruit and then just used the spices/herbs I had on hand.
> 
> Ok, here is what I have written in my brew log for a 10 gallon batch (that actually ended up being 12 gallons).
> 
> * 3 bags of the 5 lb mixed frozen fruit (peaches, cantaloupe, strawberry, pineapple)
> * 2 lbs cranberry (heat til bursting, then cool and add to must)
> * 5 lbs strawberry
> * 2 lbs figs
> * 1 lb currants
> * 4 lbs blueberries
> * 3 lbs raspberry
> * 2 cups of dried hibiscus flowers
> * 1.25 oz dried elderberries
> * 1 40 oz container of lemon juice
> * 2 cans white grape concentrate
> * 2 T tannin
> * 8 tsp nutrient
> * 4 tsp energizer
> * 6 tsp pectic enzyme
> 
> I basically decided to clean out my freezer and use all the fruit in it for this one batch. Obviously, this much fruit is not needed and I think this more followed a freezer clean out wine than a true Dragon's Blood.
> 
> For spices I added 3 star anise, 1 cinnamon stick, 1 vanilla pod in primary.
> 
> I do like this one better than the Christmas DB from 2013, but they were both delicious and definitely drinkable in 2 months time.



haha
What? Did you round up all the neighbors fruit too?

I may have to give this one, or a variation of your variation, a go. I have some odds and ends fruit in the freezer.
I will say, I REALLY like the 2013 version. The smell of it in the glass in incredible, with the anise, clove, etc. Probably my favorite DB version yet.


----------



## Jericurl

> haha
> What? Did you round up all the neighbors fruit too?



I know, right?!
I think Manthing was fussing at me about all the fruit in the deep freeze.

I remember wanting to do Dragon's Blood and also wanting to do Ben Hardy's Christmas Tutti Frutti wine. So this is what I ended up doing.

I agree, that 2013 version smells amazing.
I'm definitely going to be starting a batch for Christmas 2016. And I think I'll just keep it simple and do the first recipe. And maybe add a little ginger. er..and maybe change the spices a bit....


----------



## mforney12

Is dragon's blood best at room temperature? or chilled?


----------



## JSquared

mforney12 said:


> Is dragon's blood best at room temperature? or chilled?




I prefer it chilled and I sweeten to a sweet wine. I think it takes on a better flavor chilled!


----------



## wineforfun

mforney12 said:


> Is dragon's blood best at room temperature? or chilled?



I prefer it semi-chilled and semi- sweet(I am not a sweet wine drinker). I believe if it gets too cold it numbs most of the flavors.

It really is up to you and your preferences as we all have our different likes.


----------



## Jericurl

I take mine out of the fridge and let the bottle sit for about 20 minutes, then pour myself a glass.

I don't like it super cold but I don't like it warm either.

Manthing likes his the same way I do or flat out warm.


----------



## willie

Wine as with beer will have more flavor when drank at room temp. But the main squeeze and I do prefer wine chilled because we find it more refreshing. 

Will


----------



## mforney12

So the back-sweetening for me comes in a week (just racked from primary to carboy tonight). @wineforfun & others- what amount of sugar (for a 6 gallon batch) is good for a semi-sweet wine?


----------



## jumby

I use 1 cup per gallon. 6 cups for a 6 gallon batch.


----------



## wineforfun

mforney12 said:


> So the back-sweetening for me comes in a week (just racked from primary to carboy tonight). @wineforfun & others- what amount of sugar (for a 6 gallon batch) is good for a semi-sweet wine?



I woud start at 1/2-3/4c per gallon and go from there. Remember, you can always add more, but can't take it out.
It will "sweeten" up some more after a few months in the bottle and more of the fruit flavor will come forward.


----------



## Dentman

I have some DB finishing now but I'm not a big sweet wine drinker. I figure its a long shot, but is there a variation of the DB recipe that is more of a classic red wine style?


----------



## Jericurl

Dentman said:


> I have some DB finishing now but I'm not a big sweet wine drinker. I figure its a long shot, but is there a variation of the DB recipe that is more of a classic red wine style?



I find that adding elderberries to just about any kind of fruit wine gives it a deeper and more robust taste. You could start by adding 8 oz of dried elderberry and cutting the lemon in half.
Understand that not sweetening it will most definitely add to your aging time.


----------



## CGish

Bottled today. Yield from this first batch is 67 bottles.


----------



## Dentman

Ok thanks jericurl. Do you mean back sweetening will add aging time?


----------



## Jericurl

Dentman said:


> Ok thanks jericurl. Do you mean back sweetening will add aging time?



No. Adding elderberry and not as much sugar will add a bit to the aging process.
I would still definitely add some sugar though. That much lemon juice plus all those berries definitely needs just a bit to level out the flavor. You don't have to do much.


----------



## Jericurl

CGish said:


> Bottled today. Yield from this first batch is 67 bottles.
> 
> View attachment 25289



Looks great! But most importantly, how does it taste?


----------



## CGish

Jericurl said:


> Looks great! But most importantly, how does it taste?



It is already very good. It will be interesting to see how it changes over the next several months. I have 67 bottles, so maybe a few will make it past Christmas? I should have had another bottle out of this batch, but I polished off the top up container several days ago.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*Using Fermaid in DB?*

The store where I will be purchasing my additives only carries Fermaid K and Fermaid O rather than regular Yeast Energizer and Yeast Nutrient.

How many teaspoons of Fermaid K and Fermaid O should I use and when for a standard 6 gallon batch of DB? I don't have a metric scale as yet.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mikeyy

Hi guys can anybody help me out I've searched on this site but I can't find the post/thread about daves strawberry tart that people have mentioned does anybody have the link to the recipe
Thanks, mikey


----------



## sour_grapes

Mikeyy said:


> Hi guys can anybody help me out I've searched on this site but I can't find the post/thread about daves strawberry tart that people have mentioned does anybody have the link to the recipe
> Thanks, mikey



I think I found it! See http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=528905&postcount=167


----------



## gaboy

I pitched my Lalvin 1118 yeast 21 hrs ago, and have not yet noticed any action with must @ 75 degrees. Yeast was kept under refrigeration for @ 9 months before pitching. Do I have a problem?


----------



## CGish

gaboy said:


> I pitched my Lalvin 1118 yeast 21 hrs ago, and have not yet noticed any action with must @ 75 degrees. Yeast was kept under refrigeration for @ 9 months before pitching. Do I have a problem?



How big of a batch and did you re-hydrate?

My first batch of DB went three days before the gravity started dropping. I noticed some action before that point, but it was slow getting started.

As a general rule, you don't panic over the yeast until the third day after pitching.


----------



## gaboy

*Yeast Viability?*

It is a 6 Gal DB batch c 9 lbs of fruit, the yeast were hydrated @ 10 min in warm water then added to the must with stirring. Others @ 3 gal I have done, took right off. THANKS for the reply info!!!!


----------



## wineforfun

gaboy said:


> I pitched my Lalvin 1118 yeast 21 hrs ago, and have not yet noticed any action with must @ 75 degrees. Yeast was kept under refrigeration for @ 9 months before pitching. Do I have a problem?



21hrs. is nothing to worry about. Only reason I would even think to worry about the yeast is if it's expiration date was passed.
I am sure you will see plenty of activity in the next day or two.

Stir it twice daily.


----------



## CGish

^ what wineforfun said.

Have a glass of wine and don't worry about it!


----------



## gaboy

wineforfun said:


> 21hrs. is nothing to worry about. Only reason I would even think to worry about the yeast is if it's expiration date was passed.
> I am sure you will see plenty of activity in the next day or two.
> 
> Stir it twice daily.



THANKS for all the replies!! It just "took off" @ 26 hours, thanks for humoring me during the birth!!


----------



## CGish

Racked my second DB batch - tropical daze variant - out of the primary today. Started on 10/22/15. I planned for a 12 gallon batch, but wound up way over the proper starting gravity. I had to add 3 gallons of water to bring the O.G. down. I then added another 8 lbs of fruit and can of pineapple to preserve the ratios. Still wound up with an O.G. of 1.105, but I was out of space in the fermentor. F.G. was 0.990. Tasting the wine, I think I will need to add a little more acid. I will test it in a couple weeks when I back sweeten.

Today I double racked with my AllInOne wine pump to degas and added sulfite, sorbate, and sparkolloid. 




Filled three five gallon carboys with just a bit left over to taste.




The AllInOne wine pump did all the heavy lifting. I only had to move the three five gallon carboys from one table top to another. No dead lifts, bending, or over reaching.

Now the waiting part.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Latest Dragons Blood


----------



## CGish

The combination of a thorough degassing and sparkolliod is astonishing. This is six hours after racking with the AllInOne wine pump from the primary to the secondary and stirring in the sparkolloid.

You can see how much clearer the wine is already and the 1/2" band of lees in the bottom of the carboy:


----------



## Dominic1920

What can I do to keep my next batch of dragons blood from turning orange as it ages? I made a strawberry, blackberry variant and it started out a beautiful deep red, then turned a pink blush, now its a bright orange.


----------



## CGish

Dominic1920 said:


> What can I do to keep my next batch of dragons blood from turning orange as it ages? I made a strawberry, blackberry variant and it started out a beautiful deep red, then turned a pink blush, now its a bright orange.



How are you aging and / or bottling?

Carboy?

One Gallon Jugs?

Wine Bottles?

Beer Bottles?

If you are bulk aging, how much headspace are you leaving in the carboy?


----------



## Dominic1920

Wine bottles for about 6 months at room temperature, though it did sit in the carboy for about 3 months clearing with a bit more headspace than it should of had. When it first started clearing in the carboy it was a deep red. When I bottled it was a blush pink. After 6 months in the bottles, its bright orange. 



CGish said:


> How are you aging and / or bottling?
> 
> Carboy?
> 
> One Gallon Jugs?
> 
> Wine Bottles?
> 
> Beer Bottles?
> 
> If you are bulk aging, how much headspace are you leaving in the carboy?


----------



## CGish

Dominic1920 said:


> Wine bottles for about 6 months at room temperature, though it did sit in the carboy for about 3 months clearing with a bit more headspace than it should of had. When it first started clearing in the carboy it was a deep red. When I bottled it was a blush pink. After 6 months in the bottles, its bright orange.



I am sure you will get answers from some of the experienced members, but it sounds like oxidation to me.

How does it taste? Is the wine still good? 

Did you add k-meta at racking and bottling?


----------



## Dominic1920

CGish said:


> I am sure you will get answers from some of the experienced members, but it sounds like oxidation to me.
> 
> How does it taste? Is the wine still good?
> 
> Did you add k-meta at racking and bottling?



Tastes fine. Nothing wrong with the taste at all. Nothing added at racking and bottling though. I cant handle the sulfites too well.


----------



## woodlan

Dragon Blood is just too good , I have to keep one going at all times
Friends and family not so patiently waiting for the next bottling 
I also love me some berries with a tropical twist (pineapple-mango) !!

Thanks Dave for such a easily variable recipe


----------



## wineforfun

Dominic1920 said:


> Tastes fine. Nothing wrong with the taste at all. Nothing added at racking and bottling though. I cant handle the sulfites too well.



If it tastes fine, then I wouldn't think oxidation set in.

What was your predominant fruit used? If strawberry was one, it will fade out to an orange color.
I have never had the triple/quad berry change away from the deep red.


----------



## jumby

woodlan said:


> Dragon Blood is just too good , I have to keep one going at all times
> Friends and family not so patiently waiting for the next bottling
> I also love me some berries with a tropical twist (pineapple-mango) !!
> 
> Thanks Dave for such a easily variable recipe



Pineapple, mango, berries is by far my fave. Actually enjoying a bottle as I type this. ...


----------



## Jericurl

Just bottled 2nd 6 gallons of Christmas Dragon's Blood. This is the one that had a bit less spice....
We are drinking the last 1/2 bottle left over and it is delicious. If you want something to give away at Christmas, you still have time to start a batch!


----------



## JSquared

My Christmas Dragonblood is in secondary clearing now! I can't wait to try it! It's smells fabulous! Thanks Jericurl for all the help and advise!!


----------



## JSquared

Just sampled my Christmas Dragon Blood and WOW is all I can say! I need to start another batch so I will be willing to give this one up as gifts! The color is a little orange-red but the flavor....amazing!


----------



## Jericurl

JSquared said:


> Just sampled my Christmas Dragon Blood and WOW is all I can say! I need to start another batch so I will be willing to give this one up as gifts! The color is a little orange-red but the flavor....amazing!View attachment 25622



It's good isn't it?? 

And it's good cold, room temperature, or heated up for a toddy.


----------



## JSquared

Jericurl said:


> It's good isn't it??
> 
> 
> 
> And it's good cold, room temperature, or heated up for a toddy.




Good is an understatement!! I tried it at room temp, I was thinking warm would be fabulous! I'm actually going to buy the supplies for a 2nd batch so I will be more willing to share! Thanks again for all of your help!!!!


----------



## JSquared

I have officially started a second batch of Christmas Dragon Blood, I was worried that I wouldn't be able to part with the first batch and give them as gifts! Thanks to DangerDave and Jericurl for sharing!


----------



## woodlan

Hello Dave
This is by far the best recipe I've come across
Over the last few years I make this 80% of the time
along with some very close variations
Friends and family all ways request more

Thanks so much Dave..


----------



## frosti

Not sure if i should ask here, and im not finding any info. I have made many batches of this, was curious though if anyone had run it through a neutral oak barrel? If so how much did it improve?


----------



## willie

Jericurl said:


> Just bottled 2nd 6 gallons of Christmas Dragon's Blood. This is the one that had a bit less spice....
> We are drinking the last 1/2 bottle left over and it is delicious. If you want something to give away at Christmas, you still have time to start a batch!



Jericurl, ok I just had a 6 gal. batch of Triple Berry clear this week and just now added the honey, cinnamon, clove, vanilla, and elder berry's after adding the amount of sugar to back sweetened. I did figure the honey along with the sugar that I added when back sweetened. So my question is how long should I let it age with the spices in it before we filter and bottle? A month?

Will


----------



## Jericurl

willie said:


> Jericurl, ok I just had a 6 gal. batch of Triple Berry clear this week and just now added the honey, cinnamon, clove, vanilla, and elder berry's after adding the amount of sugar to back sweetened. I did figure the honey along with the sugar that I added when back sweetened. So my question is how long should I let it age with the spices in it before we filter and bottle? A month?
> 
> Will



Check it in a week and every few days after that. A month might be perfect, it might be way too long.


----------



## willie

Ok Jericurl thanks for the response. I will post the results when all is done. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

I have 1 gallon of Original Dragon Blood that I didn't bottle when I bottled my last 6 gallon batch. I'm thinking of adding extract or F-Pac to give it a different enhanced flavor. Anyone have any ideas of changes I could make?


----------



## Jericurl

JSquared said:


> I have 1 gallon of Original Dragon Blood that I didn't bottle when I bottled my last 6 gallon batch. I'm thinking of adding extract or F-Pac to give it a different enhanced flavor. Anyone have any ideas of changes I could make?



Vanilla, oak, and dried elderberries is my vote!


----------



## JSquared

Jericurl said:


> Vanilla, oak, and dried elderberries is my vote!




How long do you think I would need to leave the oak in it? I'm not sure if we have dried elderberries in my market. I'll have to look at some of the specialty stores. Thanks for the suggestion, it sounds good! And with my luck with your Christmas variant, how could I go wrong!


----------



## Jericurl

I just put 4 oz of medium french oak cubes, one vanilla bean, and about 2 oz of dried elderberries in with 5 gallons of blackberry/elderberry mead.

I'm going to leave it for one week, then taste and likely rack it and start finishing it for bottling in January.

Try it for about the same amount of time and see what happens.


----------



## willie

Christmas Wine

After adding honey, elderberries, cinnamon stick,vanilla and a few cloves 6 days ago to a 6 gal. Triple Berry we tasted the wine and decided to rack it off the berry's and stuff. We will let it sit for another 10-14 days and then filter and bottle. The wine is clear and had a great taste. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

Jericurl said:


> Vanilla, oak, and dried elderberries is my vote!




Okay I went to my local wine store and he had everything you recommended! My question is, I've never worked with vanilla beans before. Will one vanilla bean be too much for just a gallon of wine if you usually use one vanilla bean in a 5-6 gallon batch? I'm new to working with the spices and such but so very excited to learn!


----------



## Jdub

*Hi, thanks and a question*

Hi all, I have been lurking for a couple months and have read a good portion of the thread but just made a profile so I could comment. Thank you all for your recipes and insight. I had brewed a couple 5 gal batches of beer but stopped and sold my setup when my twins were born. Time & $$ were short and I realized I didn't really like beer enough to risk having 5 gallons of only decent brew. The twins are 3 now and I needed a hobby so I looked for an easy sweet wine recipe and found this thread. The fruit wine recipe sounded almost as intriguing as the name, DragonBlood!!

I picked up a 2.5 gal bucket and three 1 gal carboys and have made a couple 1 gallon batches of DragonBlood. The first just got back sweetened and will be ready for bottles soon and the second is almost finished with primary fermentation. My first batch was quad-berry (strawberry, blueberry, raspberry, blackberry) the second was half quad-berry & half cherry. I am going to bottle about half of each batch in 187ml clear bottles for gifts and the rest in beer bottles. I figure I have just enough time to get one more batch made for Christmas gifts.

I was wondering if anyone would have a good idea or recipe for a holiday cranberry wine? I saw the recipe posted by Jericurl for a holiday wine with cranberries but it seemed too complex for my simple mind. I don't have much experience with different spices and flavors so I'm not sure what would compliment the cranberry flavor. Any advice would be appreciated!!
Thanks,
Jesse


----------



## globalnavigator

*newbie mistake already*

Hi All, in my first attempt at Dragon Blood, my SG read 1.12 after adding my sugar. I then completed step 1. The only deviation from the original recipe was that my lemon juice was a 40 oz from Walmart, and I added one star anise, a cinnamon stick, a whole nutmeg, and a few cloves. 

So, two questions; 

1) can I take steps to reduce the (15%?) alcohol that is indicated for the final product, and, 

2) will I even taste the small amounts of spices that I added to my 6-gallon batch?

-Steve


----------



## JSquared

Welcome to the thread! Tons of great info on here! I am just finishing Jericurl's Christmas variant of the DB now and I am far from experienced in wine making! I've only be making wine for a year myself! I'm sure someone on here will give you a great suggest. I really haven't worked much with cranberries yet. Good Luck! Jackie


----------



## Jericurl

JSquared said:


> Okay I went to my local wine store and he had everything you recommended! My question is, I've never worked with vanilla beans before. Will one vanilla bean be too much for just a gallon of wine if you usually use one vanilla bean in a 5-6 gallon batch? I'm new to working with the spices and such but so very excited to learn!



I wouldn't use an entire bean unless you want a very very strong vanilla flavor. ALL VANILLA ALL THE TIME.

Maybe cut off an inch at the tip and split/scrape just that part, then toss it in.


----------



## JSquared

Jericurl said:


> I wouldn't use an entire bean unless you want a very very strong vanilla flavor. ALL VANILLA ALL THE TIME.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe cut off an inch at the tip and split/scrape just that part, then toss it in.




Took your advise and added .8 oz Md French Roast oak, .4 oz dried Elderberries and 1/5 of a vanilla bean. I'm gonna check it in a week and see how it's going!


----------



## Jericurl

*1) can I take steps to reduce the (15%?) alcohol that is indicated for the final product, and, * 
You can add water, but you will lose flavor and body. 

*2) will I even taste the small amounts of spices that I added to my 6-gallon batch?
* Yes... you will be able to taste the spices. Wait until you taste it before you add any more.


----------



## mforney12

Bottled my dragon blood this afternoon, had roughly half a bottle left that we're taste testing. The DB smells good, little fruity smell. However as far as taste ... its very disappointing - very little berry/fruity flavor. It kind of tastes like tart, sweet water. Does this change over time? Do the fruit flabors come out over time (how much time)? If not i'm hesitant to give this to anyone for holiday gifts.


----------



## CGish

mforney12 said:


> Bottled my dragon blood this afternoon, had roughly half a bottle left that we're taste testing. The DB smells good, little fruity smell. However as far as taste ... its very disappointing - very little berry/fruity flavor. It kind of tastes like tart, sweet water. Does this change over time? Do the fruit flabors come out over time (how much time)? If not i'm hesitant to give this to anyone for holiday gifts.



What is your ABV?

The flavors will come out with time, but if the higher the alcohol the longer it will take.


----------



## JetJockey

It would also be helpful to know how much fruit you used per gallon.


----------



## wineforfun

And if you backsweetened.


----------



## globalnavigator

*regarding my post #3444*

I'm still thinking about my goal of lowering the final alcohol percentage. 

Isn't there a way to stop the fermentation early, at say 1.02, to keep more of the sugar intact instead of the yeast converting it to alcohol? Since the Dragon Blood recipe calls for backsweetening, I could just add less sugar then?


----------



## wineforfun

globalnavigator said:


> I'm still thinking about my goal of lowering the final alcohol percentage.
> 
> Isn't there a way to stop the fermentation early, at say 1.02, to keep more of the sugar intact instead of the yeast converting it to alcohol? Since the Dragon Blood recipe calls for backsweetening, I could just add less sugar then?



The only way you will stop fermentation is by fortifying it, making the ABV even higher.
Just let it runs it's course, then backsweeten and hopefully in 2-3mos., you can get the flavors to come forward, like a normal recipe would.
Your issues are from your starting SG of 1.12. 

Only other option would be to make another batch and do some blending, to get the ABV lower. 

Personally, I would go with my first option and just chalk it up to "live and learn".
Heck, who knows, you might actually like the finished product. Remember too, wine changes over time so even though it may not be to your liking in month 1, it may be awesome in month 6.


----------



## JSquared

mforney12 said:


> Bottled my dragon blood this afternoon, had roughly half a bottle left that we're taste testing. The DB smells good, little fruity smell. However as far as taste ... its very disappointing - very little berry/fruity flavor. It kind of tastes like tart, sweet water. Does this change over time? Do the fruit flabors come out over time (how much time)? If not i'm hesitant to give this to anyone for holiday gifts.




I personally found that I like my Dragon Blood after it has been bottled for about 6 months. It was good but not great to me at the start. I'm now running low because it has moved on to great!


----------



## mforney12

Specs on my dragon blood batch:

Pitched 10/4; SG = 1.082 @ 74*F
Racked 10/13; SG = 0.990 @ 72*F

Used 1 pound berry blend per gallon ... 6 pounds total for my 6 gallon batch. Only deviation from original recipe was 1 cup less lemon; back sweetened with 3.75 cups of sugar. 

Will work on determining what my abv is.


----------



## Ctmaro

mforney12 said:


> Specs on my dragon blood batch:
> 
> Pitched 10/4; SG = 1.082 @ 74*F
> Racked 10/13; SG = 0.990 @ 72*F
> 
> Used 1 pound berry blend per gallon ... 6 pounds total for my 6 gallon batch. Only deviation from original recipe was 1 cup less lemon; back sweetened with 3.75 cups of sugar.
> 
> Will work on determining what my abv is.[/QUOT
> 
> I’ve had really luck, getting more fruit taste with regular wines, by making a Flavor pack.
> Take a package of Triple Berry, put it in a pot, just cover it with water, and simmer for 20 – 30 minutes. Strain and mix the “juice” into your wine. Make sure you sorbate and Kmeta your must, so it doesn’t start fermentation again.
> The dilution should bring down the ABV, and add flavor to the wine.
> Time (aging) will also bring flavor forward, in about 6 mo to a year.
> 
> Mark


----------



## sour_grapes

mforney12 said:


> Specs on my dragon blood batch:
> 
> Pitched 10/4; SG = 1.082 @ 74*F
> Racked 10/13; SG = 0.990 @ 72*F
> 
> Used 1 pound berry blend per gallon ... 6 pounds total for my 6 gallon batch. Only deviation from original recipe was 1 cup less lemon; back sweetened with 3.75 cups of sugar.
> 
> Will work on determining what my abv is.



Right around 12%.


----------



## mforney12

for future notes, does more fruit per gallon yield a fruitier wine? or does it not work like that? just curious. 

I was hoping that this DB i started in early October would be ready by Thanksgiving and would be 'prime' by Christmas ... but maybe i'll just tell folks to wait and celebrate/drink it on Valentine's day. Guess i thought DB was a faster wine than it really is ... should have started in August.

Any recommendations as to when i should open the next bottle and test? wait a few weeks? wait a couple months?


----------



## willie

mforney12 said:


> for future notes, does more fruit per gallon yield a fruitier wine? or does it not work like that? just curious.
> 
> I was hoping that this DB i started in early October would be ready by Thanksgiving and would be 'prime' by Christmas ... but maybe i'll just tell folks to wait and celebrate/drink it on Valentine's day. Guess i thought DB was a faster wine than it really is ... should have started in August.
> 
> Any recommendations as to when i should open the next bottle and test? wait a few weeks? wait a couple months?



Yes adding more fruit will give your wine a stronger fruit flavor. I have been changing it up and have used 6, 7.5 , and 9 lbs. Have not tried 12 lbs. yet but I believe others have. Experimenting with this recipe is what makes it fun. 

Will


----------



## JetJockey

I agree adding more fruit gives fruitier taste. I've settled at 9# for 6 gal. Didn't try 12 because 9 was enough for my tastes. I also try to keep ABV higher, 13.5-14%. Just my preference.


----------



## wineforfun

mforney12 said:


> Specs on my dragon blood batch:
> 
> Pitched 10/4; SG = 1.082 @ 74*F
> Racked 10/13; SG = 0.990 @ 72*F
> 
> Used 1 pound berry blend per gallon ... 6 pounds total for my 6 gallon batch. Only deviation from original recipe was 1 cup less lemon; back sweetened with 3.75 cups of sugar.
> 
> Will work on determining what my abv is.



Looks good. Only change I have made over the years is to use 1.5# of fruit per gallon and finish with an ABV around 12.5-13%. At the 3 mo. mark the fruit really comes forward.
With those numbers your ABV should be approx. 11.8-12%, right on the money for most DB drinkers.


----------



## chasemandingo

I second the 1.5 # per gallon.....and if you like more body add 4-5 cans of welch's white grape to a 5 gallon batch. Just remember to adjust sugar accordingly. Those 11.5 oz cans have loads of sugar in them.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Here is my version of tropical dragons blood in carboy. Degassed, sorbated and sulphated, ready to clear. Not sure I am going to add Sparkolloid or another version of such. Any comments?


----------



## JSquared

HeadWatersWine said:


> Here is my version of tropical dragons blood in carboy. Degassed, sorbated and sulphated, ready to clear. Not sure I am going to add Sparkolloid or another version of such. Any comments?




Yours looks pretty much like mine and I have added Super Kleer! Mine has been sitting for about 2 months now. I've even racked it again! I really wish it would clear! I'll follow any advise you get!


----------



## Jericurl

JSquared said:


> Yours looks pretty much like mine and I have added Super Kleer! Mine has been sitting for about 2 months now. I've even racked it again! I really wish it would clear! I'll follow any advise you get!



Is it cold where you are?
Do you have an area you could put the carboy where it gets fairly cold but won't freeze?
Maybe you could cold crash it that way and see if that aids in clearing it a bit.
If it still doesn't clear...don't sweat it. It's not made to be served in Buckingham palace!


----------



## JSquared

Jericurl said:


> Is it cold where you are?
> 
> Do you have an area you could put the carboy where it gets fairly cold but won't freeze?
> 
> Maybe you could cold crash it that way and see if that aids in clearing it a bit.
> 
> If it still doesn't clear...don't sweat it. It's not made to be served in Buckingham palace!




Well, I live in South Carolina so cold isn't something we do well. It has been cool the last few nights. I'll move it into the garage tonight and see if that helps. It will get below 60 degrees in the garage tonight.


----------



## willie

Last Feb. I had a heck of a time getting a 6 gal. batch of Strawberry wine to clear and it was suggested to me that it may be Peptic Haze and to try adding 3 tsp. of Peptic Enzyme and by golly that did the trick. Cleared up in days. 

Will


----------



## JSquared

willie said:


> Last Feb. I had a heck of a time getting a 6 gal. batch of Strawberry wine to clear and it was suggested to me that it may be Peptic Haze and to try adding 3 tsp. of Peptic Enzyme and by golly that did the trick. Cleared up in days.
> 
> 
> 
> Will




I actually added more pectic enzyme to it a while back hoping that was what it was. I now have it "chilling" in the garage. I'm hoping that will shock it enough to clear it. We shall see!


----------



## Medic8106

I had a bottle of the original dragon blood I made Jan 2014 and bottled March 2014 I tried tonight. Yuck! Slight vinegar taste, dumped in sink!


----------



## wineforfun

Jericurl said:


> It's not made to be served in Buckingham palace!



haha
I knew I liked you.


----------



## willie

Medic8106 said:


> I had a bottle of the original dragon blood I made Jan 2014 and bottled March 2014 I tried tonight. Yuck! Slight vinegar taste, dumped in sink!



We drink or give away every batch of D.B. before they get no older than 6 months or so. Are experience is after 6 months the wine starts to loose some flavor. Didn't know that it could even get worse than just loose flavor. Thanks for the info. 

Will


----------



## Medic8106

willie said:


> We drink or give away every batch of D.B. before they get no older than 6 months or so. Are experience is after 6 months the wine starts to loose some flavor. Didn't know that it could even get worse than just loose flavor. Thanks for the info.
> 
> Will



I intentionally left this go. I was going for the year mark but forgot about it. Found it hiding on the rack and tried it. No way it would get that old because it me not drinking it or giving it away.


----------



## JSquared

I finished my Christmas Spiced Dragon Blood! I am very pleased with the results and they are ready for gifting!


----------



## WinoNick

So I'm going to start my first dragons blood this weekend. Is the original triple berry recipe in the attached pdf the up to date recipe? Or is there an improved one? Saw a few people mention 1.5 lb fruit per gallon. 
Thanks


----------



## willie

WinoNick said:


> So I'm going to start my first dragons blood this weekend. Is the original triple berry recipe in the attached pdf the up to date recipe? Or is there an improved one? Saw a few people mention 1.5 lb fruit per gallon.
> Thanks



The 1.5 per gal. or 9 lbs. for a 6 gal. batch is popular but Dave's original I believe calls for 6 lbs. for the 6 gal. batch because I believe it is a little milder on the stomach. It really is an excellent tasting wine. I make the 6 & 9 lb. batches. I would recommend starting with the original recipe and go from there. It really is a can't miss recipe if you go by each of Dave's steps exactly. Good luck. 

Will


----------



## WinoNick

willie said:


> The 1.5 per gal. or 9 lbs. for a 6 gal. batch is popular but Dave's original I believe calls for 6 lbs. for the 6 gal. batch because I believe it is a little milder on the stomach. It really is an excellent tasting wine. I make the 6 & 9 lb. batches. I would recommend starting with the original recipe and go from there. It really is a can't miss recipe if you go by each of Dave's steps exactly. Good luck.
> 
> Will



Thanks Will.

I went searching for some of the triple berry blend. No one around me seems to carry it. I can buy individual bags of the berries though. Anyone know the approximate ratios of each?


----------



## willie

WinoNick said:


> Thanks Will.
> 
> I went searching for some of the triple berry blend. No one around me seems to carry it. I can buy individual bags of the berries though. Anyone know the approximate ratios of each?



We find the Wyman's Triple Berry Blend at Wally World around here. The blend is red raspberries, blackberry's & blue berries. If you can find something similar at your local super even if is a quad berry blend it will work just fine. The size of the bags you want should be 3-4 lbs. The smaller 1lb. bags can be a little costly.

Will


----------



## WinoNick

Just started my first batch of DB using the original recipe but using 9 lbs instead of 6 lbs of berries. And it took a whole 10 lb bag of sugar, 21.5 cups. 

The added berries raised the must really close to the top, within a couple inches. I ended up taking about a quart or 2 out after taking this picture...




Just I case...


----------



## Jdub

I have made 3 batches of Dragons Blood. The second is a cherry-berry blend with half cherries and half 4 berry mix. It has cleared and I just tasted it. The cherry didn't come thru as much as I wanted. I bought another bag of cherries and am going to let them soak in it for a week or two. I was wondering about technique. My 3rd batch is done with primary and coming out of the bucket tonight. I could put the cherry batch back in the bucket and add the fruit bag. Or I could just put the cherries in the carboy. If I add them straight to the carboy do I mush them up first? Should I puree them?
Thanks!


----------



## Jdub

WinoNick said:


> Thanks Will.
> 
> I went searching for some of the triple berry blend. No one around me seems to carry it. I can buy individual bags of the berries though. Anyone know the approximate ratios of each?


I have seen triple berry at WalMart and Trader Joes. I went with 4 berry blend because its what my local grocery store had. That batch turned out really good. My wife never drinks alcohol but said she wouldn't mind a glass of my DragonBlood now and then!! I am finishing another batch that's half cherry and half 4 berry. I also started a 3rd batch that's just blackberries and blueberries. Try making the original and then try whatever sounds good to you!!


----------



## Tony49

Made the original recipe a few months ago. Surprising how fast this goes.
My second batch will have 6 pounds of the berry mix into a 5 gallon carboy .
Fifteen ounces of the Real Lemon instead of thirty. And back sweetened with a can or two of Welches concord concentrate.
Thank you Dave for a great early drinker.
Tony...


----------



## bkisel

The DB recipe is very versatile. Besides making a bunch of different berry batches I've used the Db recipe, with minor tweaks, for making a peach wine (using 14 lbs of peaches) and an apple wine (6 gallons of freshly pressed cider. Apple wine is still bulk aging).


----------



## Jericurl

Jdub said:


> My 3rd batch is done with primary and coming out of the bucket tonight. I could put the cherry batch back in the bucket and add the fruit bag. Or I could just put the cherries in the carboy. If I add them straight to the carboy do I mush them up first? Should I puree them?
> Thanks!




If your SG is below 1.01, just add your additional fruit to your secondary. As long as they are frozen first, then thawed they really shouldn't need any additional mashing, cutting, etc.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*When to add Riesling concentrate?*

I have a can of Alexander's Riesling concentrate I plan to use in a batch of DB. The fruits will be white grapes, pineapple, peaches and strawberries. It's a blend called Fruit Salad sold at Walmart. 

Should I add the concentrate to primary as part of the 6 gallons of water, or in addition to the 6 gallons of water? I would like to use it to add body to the DB.


----------



## willie

CheerfulHeart said:


> I have a can of Alexander's Riesling concentrate I plan to use in a batch of DB. The fruits will be white grapes, pineapple, peaches and strawberries. It's a blend called Fruit Salad sold at Walmart.
> 
> Should I add the concentrate to primary as part of the 6 gallons of water, or in addition to the 6 gallons of water? I would like to use it to add body to the DB.



I have never used Alexander's concentrate but if its a fairly large can then I would add it as part of the 6 gallons of water. I have used Wally World's mixed fruit you describe and it makes a real nice batch of what I call Tropical DB. Good luck.

Will


----------



## CheerfulHeart

Thanks, Will. The can of concentrate is in the neighborhood of 48 ounces so I will follow your advice and include it as part of the 6 gallons. I appreciate the advice. It confirms what I was thinking.

I love this particular fruit blend from Wally World! Last time I used this blend, it made a DB that tasted a lot like Riesling with a hint of pineapple and peach so I was glad to find the forgotten can of Riesling concentrate in my supply locker. At least I know the flavors will all "play well together".


----------



## Ctmaro

CheerfulHeart said:


> Thanks, Will. The can of concentrate is in the neighborhood of 48 ounces so I will follow your advice and include it as part of the 6 gallons. I appreciate the advice. It confirms what I was thinking.
> 
> I love this particular fruit blend from Wally World! Last time I used this blend, it made a DB that tasted a lot like Riesling with a hint of pineapple and peach so I was glad to find the forgotten can of Riesling concentrate in my supply locker. At least I know the flavors will all "play well together".



I find that when I use White Grape Juice concentrate, that my wines need to age some where around 6 months. If not, the taste seems to have a sharp alcohol edge to it.

Mark


----------



## calvin

*Blueberry.*

I'm going to start a blue blood. Any advice on how many pounds of berries per gallon? 

It's good to be back!

Thanks everyone


----------



## JetJockey

I prefer 1.5# per gallon, but I haven't tried 2#/gal. I will the next time because I want a fuller blueberry taste.


----------



## Thig

I used 10lbs for 5 gallons and it turned out great.


----------



## willie

Last year I used 12 lbs. of Wyman's blueberries and ended up adding a little Blueberry Extract to kick up the flavor up little bit. Turned out great. 

Will


----------



## calvin

What yeast?


----------



## JetJockey

Funny you ask, I just did a comparison of these three with three 6-gal batches of Fredonia. I have used the 1118 and 1116 with DB. I can't notice much difference in the Fredonia batches. I guess the 1116 and 1118 are very similar in % ABV and temperature ranges with the 1116 being a little lower on the top temp end. 1116 is supposed to bring out the fruit taste a little more. Sorry I can't help more, but maybe my taste isn't sensitive enough to discern the difference. Don't think you could go wrong with any of the 3! Look at the temp range and %ABV for your intended fermentation. Better yet make 3 batches and compare!


----------



## calvin

Thanks everyone! Is Dave still on his hike? I've been MIA for a while.


----------



## calvin

Here we go!

12 gallons
24# of frozen blueberries 
20# of sugar. Right about 1.070
1116 yeast


----------



## calvin

almost forgot the oak!


----------



## willie

calvin said:


> Thanks everyone! Is Dave still on his hike? I've been MIA for a while.



Calvin, Dave posted on here a little while back. He didn't say anything about his hike that I can remember. I would think he would be done with it by now. Maybe he will post and give us some information on how his hike went. 

Will


----------



## sour_grapes

calvin said:


> Thanks everyone! Is Dave still on his hike? I've been MIA for a while.





willie said:


> Calvin, Dave posted on here a little while back. He didn't say anything about his hike that I can remember. I would think he would be done with it by now. Maybe he will post and give us some information on how his hike went.
> 
> Will



See this thread, especially this post:



ffemt128 said:


> Danger Dave dissapointingly posted that after 909 miles he needs to terminate his trip for medical reasons. He had posted previously that his feet were bothering him and recenlty sought medical advice. Dr. apparently told him to stop the trip before any permanent damage is done.
> 
> Congratulations Danger Dave. You've accomplished something that many of us wouldn't likely even consider. You should be very proud of your journey, I enjoyed following it on FB.


----------



## calvin

Wow 909 miles. That's pretty darn good. I don't know if I would have made 100. I also looked for Dave on FB to see how his trip was going but couldn't find him.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

My version of the tropical dragon blood.


----------



## willie

sour_grapes said:


> See this thread, especially this post:



Thanks for the info. Paul about Dave's hike. That's a heck of a feat walking all those miles in those rugged mountains. 

Will


----------



## WinoNick

Clearing nicely


----------



## willie

WinoNick said:


> Clearing nicely
> View attachment 26480



Hey Nick that carboy looks just great. Your going to have a nice batch of wine to drink when ever your ready to bottle. We just love the Dragon Blood recipe. And so do our friends and relatives. As some others have said even those who say they do not like wine like Dragon Blood. 

Will


----------



## DryFly

Do you recommend any particular tannin, yeast nutrient, yeast energizer, pectic enzyme, or clearing agents?

Also, what does DB taste like?


----------



## willie

DryFly said:


> Do you recommend any particular tannin, yeast nutrient, yeast energizer, pectic enzyme, or clearing agents?
> 
> Also, what does DB taste like?



Just the standard Chemicals as called for in Dave's recipe. Clearing agent I like Super Kleer. Taste? Berry delicious. 


Will


----------



## Johngottshall

My batch of tropical blend moved to caboy this evening


----------



## jayhkr

Just started my first batch this evening, haven't even pitched the yeast yet. How many people went the lime juice route, instead of the lemon? Wondering what the difference will be.


----------



## wineforfun

I have done both. Just more of a "limey" taste than the lemon. That is all I have ever noticed.
A lot depends on what fruit you are using. I typically go the lime route with a tropical fruit version and go the lemon route with the triple berry.


----------



## jayhkr

I guess we'll see how things turn out. If nothing else in a week or so I'll start a new batch once I rack over to secondary!......oh wait if I do that then I'll need more carboy's........Oh boy......here we go again!


----------



## Matty_Kay

Making a list tonight for supplies, ingredients etc. to start a batch this weekend. Easily one of the most requested wines I have made from friends and family.


----------



## Double Daylo

Made our first batch of this starting last week. Got it into secondaries last night. Starting out with 10 gallons of this. 

Typically with fruit wines we are starting a like a 1.090 sg and racking into secondaries at like 1.020-1.040.

I racked this at 1.020 and realized the instructions say to rack below 1.000 and once it has stopped fermentation. I am assuming the only downside to this will be a slightly weaker wine? Obviously we will check sg before we bottle. But just wondering if anyone has racked a little early and what their experience was.

Once we taste and decide if we like it or not we will probably start doing 15 gallon batches at a time. Bottling in 3-4 weeks is sweet!! Great wine for drinking a ton of while we make our long term batches!


----------



## wineforfun

DD,
One of the main reasons to wait longer is you will have much less sediment in your secondary to deal with.
No problem racking that soon, it will just take longer to reach below 1.000.


----------



## freqflyer

What fruit are you using to get the yellow color in the Tropical? I have made several batches of the regular DB. I thought I would try a tropical version so I bought Wyman's blueberry, strawberry, mango. It's fermenting now and this stuff is red or at least a blush. I'm guessing from the strawberries? Has anybody made batch with this mixture? How does it compare to the original?


----------



## Johngottshall

I used pineapple,mango,peach,strawberry, mix from Sam's club I used 10 lbs for a 4 gallon batch


----------



## Johngottshall

Tropical blend clearing nicely


----------



## jayhkr

So I am in the final clearing stages of my 6+ gallons and I have to ask, before back sweetening, what am I tasting? I guess I'm used to grape wines and since this has blueberries, blackberries, and strawberries with lime juice I don't know what to expect. I know the taste of it "dry" isn't what I like so much, so I will be sweetening at least 4 gallons. But I just can't quite describe the taste, not like any wine I've had before. I don't even get that back taste I'm used to from grape wines. I expected a fruity taste, but it's not quite "fruity" in my opinion.


----------



## Double Daylo

We are in secondaries with our first batch. We made 12 gallons right away. Next time we are going to cut back on the lemon a little. Little too lemony for us we think. Time will tell when it is cleared out and bottled. Bottling in two weeks most likely.


----------



## Winenoob66

jayhkr said:


> So I am in the final clearing stages of my 6+ gallons and I have to ask, before back sweetening, what am I tasting? I guess I'm used to grape wines and since this has blueberries, blackberries, and strawberries with lime juice I don't know what to expect. I know the taste of it "dry" isn't what I like so much, so I will be sweetening at least 4 gallons. But I just can't quite describe the taste, not like any wine I've had before. I don't even get that back taste I'm used to from grape wines. I expected a fruity taste, but it's not quite "fruity" in my opinion.



When it is freshly done you can expect a lil strong lemon tartness, but as it ages a little the fruit starts to come forward some to give you the light fruitiness. It is best around 3 months if you can wait that long. Personally I cut the lemon juice back to about 32 oz for a 6g batch and drop the ABV some so it is drinkable earlier. 

Also when you back sweeten be sure to stop on the sweetening just below where you think it is perfect as it will sweeten a little more as the fruit comes forward


----------



## barbiek

freqflyer said:


> What fruit are you using to get the yellow color in the Tropical? I have made several batches of the regular DB. I thought I would try a tropical version so I bought Wyman's blueberry, strawberry, mango. It's fermenting now and this stuff is red or at least a blush. I'm guessing from the strawberries? Has anybody made batch with this mixture? How does it compare to the original?



freqflyer the blueberries is what the red color is coming from. The strawberry don't offer up hardly any color. Wouldn't think tropical blend would have blueberry in it or strawberry for that matter. Were all three packaged together and listed as tropical blend or did you just buy them separately? 
Thanks


----------



## Johngottshall

Going to run thru filter this afternoon then back sweeten


----------



## Johngottshall

Back sweetened and filtered


----------



## CGish

Backsweetened and filtered a tropical variant today. Even managed to snag a little to taste. Looks and tastes excellent.


----------



## barbiek

barbiek said:


> freqflyer the blueberries is what the red color is coming from. The strawberry don't offer up hardly any color. Wouldn't think tropical blend would have blueberry in it or strawberry for that matter. Were all three packaged together and listed as tropical blend or did you just buy them separately?
> Thanks


freqflyer the strawberry is included in the tropical blend, but you can use any combination of fruit you desire just wanted to put that out there and make the correction of my statement


----------



## freqflyer

barbiek said:


> freqflyer the blueberries is what the red color is coming from. The strawberry don't offer up hardly any color. Wouldn't think tropical blend would have blueberry in it or strawberry for that matter. Were all three packaged together and listed as tropical blend or did you just buy them separately?
> Thanks



It's all from one bag. http://www.wymans.com/product/blueb...oes/blueberries-strawberries-and-mango-chunks


Has anybody made Db from this stuff? How did it taste compared to the original?


----------



## willie

freqflyer said:


> It's all from one bag. http://www.wymans.com/product/blueb...oes/blueberries-strawberries-and-mango-chunks
> 
> 
> Has anybody made Db from this stuff? How did it taste compared to the original?



I have not but the mix sounds great. We use Wymans Tripple Berry when we make the original recipe. Their fruit is wonderful.

Will


----------



## barbiek

willie said:


> I have not but the mix sounds great. We use Wymans Tripple Berry when we make the original recipe. Their fruit is wonderful.
> 
> Will



I haven't even seen that mix of fruit either. But yes Wymans is the way to go! Let us know how it turns out


----------



## RedRockGirl

Dave's recipe Sweet Strawberry Tart calls for 71B-1122 yeast. I have a dozen types of yeast, but not this one. What could I substitute that would be comparable? I made the must last night before I realized the missing yeast. Nearest LHBS is 5 hours away.
Also, has there been any updates to this recipe that isn't below?

Sweet Strawberry Tart
5/31/14 - To a 7 gallon fermenter, I added...20 cups of granulater sugar, 1 cup medium toasted French oak, 3 tsp yeast nutrient, 1 tsp yeast energizer, 3 tsp pectic enzyme, 1 tsp wine tannin, 96oz of Real Lemon Juice, and water up to 5 gallons. Stirred vigorously until all was dissolved and well mixed. Attached brew belt for warmth. SG = 1.085. Added 15 lbs of thawed frozen strawberries in two mesh bags. Total volume came out a little over 6 gallons. Squeezed and stirred every day per DB recipe. Notes: I used more lemon juice than I normally do in my DB recipe because I wanted the final product to be nice and tart.

6/1/14 - Pitched 71B-1122 yeast.

6/7/14 - SG = 0.992. Added 1/4 tsp sulphite, 3 tsp sorbate, and 96oz ("Big Bucket") Strawberry Daiquiri Mix. Topped up with about 750ml original Dragon Blood. Added Super Klear

6/23/14 - Racked. After tasting, added 4 cups of sugar and 2oz Watkins Strawberry Extract. Added two drops of red food coloring. Note: I wanted a fuller strawberry flavor than I got with the fruit and mix, thus the added extract. I also wanted a deeper hue of pinkish-red, so added a little bit of color.

6/30/14 - Racked, filtered, and bottled, only to watch most of it disappear over 4th of July weekend.


----------



## CGish

RedRockGirl said:


> Dave's recipe Sweet Strawberry Tart calls for 71B-1122 yeast. I have a dozen types of yeast, but not this one. What could I substitute that would be comparable?



A chart like this may help you make a decision:
https://winemakermag.com/yeast-strains-chart

Perhaps D-47 or Cote Des Blanc?


----------



## Johngottshall

Bottled and labeled my batch of Tropical blend this stuff is delicious


----------



## barbiek

Looks delicious!


----------



## willie

Johngottshall said:


> Bottled and labeled my batch of Tropical blend this stuff is delicious



Hey John those are Excellent lables you have there. Congratulations. Great looking wine.

Will


----------



## Johngottshall

Thanks Will, I use this same type label on all my wines


----------



## RedRockGirl

What SG are you sweetening to? My first batch finished at .990. Last night, I added 3 cups sugar (1/2 cups per gallon) and it brought it to 1.000. It's my first batch, so I'm not sure what I like, because right now after 5 weeks since pitch day, it's still very tart. Do you recommend bumping it up a little? I've got kits I'd like to start, so I'd like to bottle in about 3 weeks to free up the carboy. Thanks!


----------



## reefman

Personally I bump mine to 1.010 to 1.012.
That's my personal preference.


----------



## Johngottshall

I like using a little less than 3/4 of a cup of sugar per gallon but I don't use all the lemon juice I don't care for that tartness.


----------



## gaboy

Whatever happened to Danger Dave? Did he get over his foot injury? Is he still making wine?? We all miss him on this thread!!!!


----------



## willie

gaboy said:


> Whatever happened to Danger Dave? Did he get over his foot injury? Is he still making wine?? We all miss him on this thread!!!!



I will second that. I miss, Dave and others that used to post on here regularly. I just guess that's the way most threads go. I have to say that this has been one of the most informative and entertaining Threads I have ever read from the beginning till now. My wife, family, and friends love DB. It seems to be our favorite wine right now. We do make kits mostly the white wine veriaty and they turn out great too. There is still some knowledgable folks on here that still post for us to learn and enjoy from.

Will


----------



## willie

RedRockGirl said:


> What SG are you sweetening to? My first batch finished at .990. Last night, I added 3 cups sugar (1/2 cups per gallon) and it brought it to 1.000. It's my first batch, so I'm not sure what I like, because right now after 5 weeks since pitch day, it's still very tart. Do you recommend bumping it up a little? I've got kits I'd like to start, so I'd like to bottle in about 3 weeks to free up the carboy. Thanks!



Hey ShaRee 4-5 cups is the norm in a six gal. Batch. If you have already bottled you can always add sugar or Stevia to sweeten in your glass. Remember after you have back sweetened a batch taste it then. Now wait 7-10 days and taste again. Not sweet enough then add more sugar. It's your wine make it the way you like.

Will


----------



## Double Daylo

Bottled our first batch of this last night(11 gallons). It is a pretty good wine. Has a definitive lemon flavor at the end so next time we will cut back on the lemon a little. We like wines semi dry so we bottled about 45 bottles to a more semi dry taste. And then another 8 bottles sweeter. Curious to try them in a couple weeks and see how it tastes. I am thinking we will have to make a batch very sweet for the wife. Time will tell. Easy to drink wine though. Incredibly cheap to make as well.


----------



## RedRockGirl

willie said:


> Hey ShaRee 4-5 cups is the norm in a six gal. Batch. If you have already bottled you can always add sugar or Stevia to sweeten in your glass. Remember after you have back sweetened a batch taste it then. Now wait 7-10 days and taste again. Not sweet enough then add more sugar. It's your wine make it the way you like.
> 
> Will



Thanks Will. I'll wait a week and try it again before adding more sugar. I'm pretty sure, I will add a bit more.


----------



## kpcrane

*First Batch! Needing help figuring out ABV*

This is my first batch and am hoping someone could calculate my ABV for me because I truly have no idea how to do it.
I'm not totally sure what all info is needed to get it figured so I'll just list my notes from the beginning....Thanks in advance!!

18 gal. Water
18 lbs. Triple Berry Blend
13 lbs. Blackberries
4 Banana's
72 oz. Real Lemon
1 package Lalvin EC-1118 yeast

Day 1, Starting (SG) 1.090 (must) temp 68 deg.
Day 2, (SG) 1.088 temp. 75 deg.
Day 3, (SG) 1.072 temp. 79 deg.
Day 4, (SG) 1.050 temp. 82 deg.
Day 5, (SG) 1.030 temp. 82 deg.
Day 6, (SG) 1.019 temp. 80 deg.
Day 7, (SG) 1.002 temp. 80 deg.
Removed fruit bags
Day 8, (SG) .994 temp. 79 deg.
Day 9, (SG) .992 temp. 77 deg.
Day 10, (SG) .991 temp. 78 deg.
Day 11, (SG) .991 temp. 78 deg.


----------



## Amanda660

About 12.9% I use this (starting gravity - ending gravity) X 131.


----------



## Double Daylo

kpcrane said:


> This is my first batch and am hoping someone could calculate my ABV for me because I truly have no idea how to do it.
> I'm not totally sure what all info is needed to get it figured so I'll just list my notes from the beginning....Thanks in advance!!
> 
> 18 gal. Water
> 18 lbs. Triple Berry Blend
> 13 lbs. Blackberries
> 4 Banana's
> 72 oz. Real Lemon
> 1 package Lalvin EC-1118 yeast
> 
> Day 1, Starting (SG) 1.090 (must) temp 68 deg.
> Day 2, (SG) 1.088 temp. 75 deg.
> Day 3, (SG) 1.072 temp. 79 deg.
> Day 4, (SG) 1.050 temp. 82 deg.
> Day 5, (SG) 1.030 temp. 82 deg.
> Day 6, (SG) 1.019 temp. 80 deg.
> Day 7, (SG) 1.002 temp. 80 deg.
> Removed fruit bags
> Day 8, (SG) .994 temp. 79 deg.
> Day 9, (SG) .992 temp. 77 deg.
> Day 10, (SG) .991 temp. 78 deg.
> Day 11, (SG) .991 temp. 78 deg.



I see you added bananas. How did this effect the batch? Does it seem to have some more body to it? Did you boil the banana down and add to primaries?

Looking to improve from our first batch we just bottled.


----------



## kpcrane

Thanks Amanda!

Daylo, this is my first batch so I don't really have the knowledge to be able to tell if just 4 Bananas made a difference but I read that it would and I had em' so I pitch them in. 
No, I didn't boil, I just peeled them and stuck them in the bag along with the fruit.


----------



## willie

Double Daylo said:


> I see you added bananas. How did this effect the batch? Does it seem to have some more body to it? Did you boil the banana down and add to primaries?
> 
> Looking to improve from our first batch we just bottled.



Hey Double Daylo here is a web site with a ABV calculator that I use. 

http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

Will


----------



## sour_grapes

willie said:


> Hey Double Daylo here is a web site with a ABV calculator that I use.
> 
> http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/
> 
> Will



I think that was directed at @kpcrane , no?


----------



## willie

kpcrane said:


> This is my first batch and am hoping someone could calculate my ABV for me because I truly have no idea how to do it.
> I'm not totally sure what all info is needed to get it figured so I'll just list my notes from the beginning....Thanks in advance!!
> 
> 18 gal. Water
> 18 lbs. Triple Berry Blend
> 13 lbs. Blackberries
> 4 Banana's
> 72 oz. Real Lemon
> 1 package Lalvin EC-1118 yeast
> 
> Day 1, Starting (SG) 1.090 (must) temp 68 deg.
> Day 2, (SG) 1.088 temp. 75 deg.
> Day 3, (SG) 1.072 temp. 79 deg.
> Day 4, (SG) 1.050 temp. 82 deg.
> Day 5, (SG) 1.030 temp. 82 deg.
> Day 6, (SG) 1.019 temp. 80 deg.
> Day 7, (SG) 1.002 temp. 80 deg.
> Removed fruit bags
> Day 8, (SG) .994 temp. 79 deg.
> Day 9, (SG) .992 temp. 77 deg.
> Day 10, (SG) .991 temp. 78 deg.
> Day 11, (SG) .991 temp. 78 deg.



kpcrane this is a link to a calculator that I use.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

Will


----------



## willie

Thank you, Paul for catching that for me. 
Well that confirms it that I am still half a sleep this morning. 

Will


----------



## Double Daylo

Still something that I can use myself thanks for the link!


----------



## CGish

The airlock got knocked off the overflow bottle, so it has to be drunk. 

I think this one is ready to bottle:


----------



## Chessdunk

pls ignore this.


----------



## Chessdunk

A noob question... can dragon blood work with pineapples / pomegranates / grapes / bananas instead of berries? How do I make adjustments to the original recipe? Will there be any change in taste if lemons are used.


----------



## Winenoob66

Yes you can use any fruit ya want. You will want to use 1 pound to 1 and a half pounds of fruit per gallon.
Lemon will make it tart like lemonade but if you are using enough pineapple juice you can get your acid from that. I suggest at least 1 gallon of pineapple juice per 6 gallon batch. You can always add acid at the end when it has finished.


----------



## Chessdunk

Winenoob66 said:


> Yes you can use any fruit ya want. You will want to use 1 pound to 1 and a half pounds of fruit per gallon.
> Lemon will make it tart like lemonade but if you are using enough pineapple juice you can get your acid from that. I suggest at least 1 gallon of pineapple juice per 6 gallon batch. You can always add acid at the end when it has finished.



Thanks that was helpful... Will table grapes, muscat / thompson grapes work too? We have loads of those coming... plan on making a test batch of sorts... maybe 1 to 2 liters... Are there any tested grape of pineapple dragon blood recipe that I can follow?


----------



## mforney12

Hopefully someone can help identify what this 'floatie' might be in my DB. Is this what sediment looks like? I've had (tasted) three bottles of the batch I started 10/5 and bottled 11/15. The bottles have progressively tasted better. 
Problem is now going to my stash, I have at least 6 bottles that have this (black/brown spot) sitting at the bottom of the bottle. Is this something to be worried about? Or is it just sediment?
Anyone else with similar situation?


----------



## Rockets160

About six months ago I made a 3 gallon batch of Dragons Blood wine. I did a few modifications to it and enjoy the way it tastes and looks in the bottle. I have one bottle remaining. 
I'm considering entering a competition and would love to send the last bottle of Dragon's Blood; however, it has been in a wine fridge since I made it. Will it be ok to gradually bring back up to room tempurature for shipping? Or will it just not be the same? Any suggestions? 
It really did come out nicely after being in the bottle for almost 6 months. I've enclosed a picture I took right after bottling (with a gallon of Moscato).
Thanks for the help,
Jeff


----------



## Rampage4all

mforney12 said:


> Hopefully someone can help identify what this 'floatie' might be in my DB. Is this what sediment looks like? I've had (tasted) three bottles of the batch I started 10/5 and bottled 11/15. The bottles have progressively tasted better.
> Problem is now going to my stash, I have at least 6 bottles that have this (black/brown spot) sitting at the bottom of the bottle. Is this something to be worried about? Or is it just sediment?
> Anyone else with similar situation?View attachment 27497



Yes that is just sediment won't hurt nothing. Either filter or let sit longer in carboy before bottling to fix on your next batch I prefer longer bulk ageing.


----------



## Rampage4all

Just finishing up my first cold ferment of DB at 60 to 65 degrees from 1.095 to 1.010 in 13 days. Transferring to carboy tomorrow hope it brings out a robust berry flavor with deeper color.


----------



## Winenoob66

I have never tried any of the grapes you mentioned in a wine. So I couldn't really tell you one way or the other. Sorry not what you wanted to hear I know.  But with being said you are the master of your wine give it a shot and let us know how it went.


----------



## CGish

*Tracking Calories*

I have been trying to track the amount of calories I eat and drink. There are plenty of resources for regular recipes, but finding information about homemade wine recipes is ... interesting.

Assuming a five gallon finished volume and using the 11.3% ABV that my first batch came out to, I used (manipulated?) the recipe calculator at CalorieCount.com to come up with the following for Dragon's Blood:
*
By the Ounce:*
​
*By the Bottle:*
​
Do these numbers look reasonable?

AND

Are there better resources for this kind of research?

Thank You,
Cody


----------



## sour_grapes

Are you taking into account that the sugar is converted to alcohol, thereby giving up some (but not all) of its caloric value?


----------



## CGish

sour_grapes said:


> Are you taking into account that the sugar is converted to alcohol, thereby giving up some (but not all) of its caloric value?



Yes,

I am assuming (and the hydrometer readings seem to support) that all of the initial sugars are turned to alcohol. There is no way to account for this process directly, so I used the 80 proof vodka as a stand-in for the alcohol.

5 (gallons) x 128 (ounces per gallon) = 640 (ounces in five gallons)

640 (ounces) x .113 (alcohol percentage) = 72.32 (ounces of alcohol in five gallons)

Vodka is only 80 proof so,

72.32 (ounces of alcohol) / 80 = 0.904

0.904 * 100 = 90.4

OR

91 ozs of 80 proof vodka (Approximately).

The only sugar left in the recipe is what is used to backsweeten.

Thank You,
Cody


----------



## sour_grapes

Ah, I see! I saw the vodka, and thought it was there because you fortified. And I did not notice that the amount of sugar was low, like for backsweetening.

Sounds like a reasonable approach to me!


----------



## Natrix

Just starting a batch on 26 with wild berry. Follow the original recipe given by Dangerdave. Didn't use yeast energizer, can't find it around here, but put 1 more tea spoon of nutrient. All seems to be good, starting SG at 1.076 and a temperature of 72. Now the temperature stay still and the SG is 1.070.


----------



## Winenoob66

Do you hear fizzing in the must or see any activity? If not then stir it real good to incorporate some Oxygen into it. Also what yeast did you use?


----------



## Natrix

Winenoob66 said:


> Do you hear fizzing in the must or see any activity? If not then stir it real good to incorporate some Oxygen into it. Also what yeast did you use?



If the question is for me, yes, it's still fermenting pretty well with a lot of activity.
I use the EC-1118 yeast.
This morning the temperature is at 73 and the SG is 1.054.


----------



## Winenoob66

Most of mine running around that temp has dropped like a rock. The tropical I am doing now was finished the first stage of fermentation in 4 days. After checking the Gravity each day be sure to stir it if the gravity is not at 1.000. It just seems to me like your must is wanting to get stuck.


----------



## Natrix

Stirring twice a day and punching down the fruit, still fermenting a lot.
Yesterday the SG was 1.036. Not check today, gonna do later.


----------



## Grabo

I started Dragon's Blood this weekend, and I am following the instructions as closely as I can. This is my first homebrew ever, but so far it seems to be going well! Starting SG 1.075 (per instructions), and it is fermenting away at a happy 70F. Below is a picture on Sunday when I removed the fruit and stirred.

http://i.imgur.com/2OqfRq3.jpg?1


----------



## Natrix

Did you taste it ?


----------



## willie

Grabo said:


> I started Dragon's Blood this weekend, and I am following the instructions as closely as I can. This is my first homebrew ever, but so far it seems to be going well! Starting SG 1.075 (per instructions), and it is fermenting away at a happy 70F. Below is a picture on Sunday when I removed the fruit and stirred.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/2OqfRq3.jpg?1



Looking good. Your going to love that stuff. 

Will


----------



## Grabo

I didn't taste it yet, but it smells great. Is there any reason, aside from possible contamination, that I should not taste it while fermenting? I figure it will just taste weak and yeasty.


----------



## Winenoob66

More than likely it will taste lemony and hot, which will mellow out with a little time. I cut my lemon down to about 32oz per 6g batch and make my starting SG around where yours is for easier drinking quicker. Flavor is best around 3 months though if you can make it last that long.


----------



## dangerdave

Just sneaking in to say Hey! Glad everyone is enjoying the DB! We have a creative and lively bunch of wine makers around here.
Wine on, everyone!


----------



## Double Daylo

Grabo said:


> I didn't taste it yet, but it smells great. Is there any reason, aside from possible contamination, that I should not taste it while fermenting? I figure it will just taste weak and yeasty.



With every single wine we make we taste at every step, racking, and chance we get. Pretty rough in the beginning with the yeast. But we like to know and learn from taste as well as sight and smell.


----------



## gaboy

dangerdave said:


> Just sneaking in to say Hey! Glad everyone is enjoying the DB! We have a creative and lively bunch of wine makers around here.
> Wine on, everyone!



GREAT to see you back, hope your feet have healed well!!!


----------



## JetJockey

Really glad to hear from you! Hope all is well Dave! You've been in the thoughts and prayers of a lot of people.


----------



## willie

JetJockey said:


> Really glad to hear from you! Hope all is well Dave! You've been in the thoughts and prayers of a lot of people.



+ 1 Glad to see your still with us Dave.

Will


----------



## sour_grapes

Glad to "see" you again, Dave!


----------



## TasunkaWitko

This looks great, and I believe I will give it a shot - it looks great!

This will only be my second wine - my first is a chokecherry wine that I recently transferred over to secondary. Since I am still very new at this, I have a couple of questions as I prepare to attempt this in the coming days:

1. Has anyone scaled it down to 1 gallon? I know that one only needs to "do the math," but I'd appreciate it if someone could help me check my nembers. Perhaps there is a link to a post where this has been done?

2. If I have a bunch of lemons, will their juice work? Being that it is a 1-gallon batch, it looks like I'll only need a little more than 1 cup of juice.

3. I have a frozen four-berry medley (strawberries, raspberries, blueberries and blackberries); it should work perfectly for this, but the amount I have is 36 ounces. If my math is right, I only need about 20 ounces. Would adding the whole amount (36 ounces) harm the final wine or through it wildly out of balance?

Thanks in advance. I will report on progress (hopefully with a few photos), and I very much appreciate any and all advice -

Ron


----------



## Winenoob66

1 lb per gallon is what ya start at. A lot of people on here like to go 1.5 lbs per gallon so the 36 oz will work fine being just over 2 lbs. the cup of lemon juice might be a little low being the recipe calls for a concentrate but you can always add more at the end if it isn't acidic enough for you.


----------



## TasunkaWitko

Thanks, Winenoob - I appreciate the advice. 

I actually did find that I have an unopened bottle of RealLemon that my wife got over the weekend, so I'm good to go there. As long as the extra fruit won't harm anything, I'll go with it.


----------



## TasunkaWitko

Okay, I apologise for my confusion and lack of experience, but how does one convert the recipe "down" to a gallon when teaspoons are involved? Simply go with a quarter teaspoon and call it good, or get out the digital scale?

Last question (I hope) - will Montrachet yeast at about 70-72 degrees work with this? It is the only yeast I have, and it is unlikely that I will get my area much warmer than that. Theodore Roosevelt was president when my house was built.

I think I should be in good shape, assuming the above. Thanks to all.


----------



## Winenoob66

All the chemicals just follow label directions. (Label directions are by the gallon.) The Montrachet wouldn't be my first choice but will work in a pinch.


----------



## AdamDubeau

*Using a Champion Juicer instead of the Presser/Squeezer Method?*

So I'm a pretty new wine maker... 

But in the last 2 months I've started with a kit wine, which I used to make a batch of Skeeter Pee, which prompted me to make 15 gallons of Raspberry Skeeter Pee, and now I'm eyeing up the DB recipe. 

My Skeeter Pee (Batch 1) came out great, I degassed it with a vacuum pump, added sparkolloid, it cleared in a week. The 15 gallon Raspberry Pee I didn't add the sparkolloid so it took a little longer to clear, but I filtered it and backsweetened, and it kinda tastes a little "light" on the flavor to me... Like a really light White Zin.

So I'm looking for something with a little more flavor and kick, which brought me to the DB recipe. After reading it over, I got thinking that would it be possible to take the "triple berry" mix and instead of straining it through the bag, could I run it through my Champion Juicer? 

Would there be something missing by juicing it, as in, would the wine be missing out on the steeping of the skins from the berries? Would it take longer to clear?


----------



## TasunkaWitko

@Winenoob66 - many thanks for the direction; I'll proceed and see how it goes!

@AdamDubeau - I am still quite new at this, but my guess is that you will miss some body and "richness" in the wine if you skip the actual fruit. When I was researching my chokecherry wine recipe and procedure, this seemed to be the general consensus. If I am wrong, others with more knowledge and experience will correct me.


----------



## MrsJones

I'm wondering if anyone has added coconut to any of their DB blends?

My mom finds my quad berry a bit bitter, but typically enjoys an orange or pinacolada cooler, so I thought trying to fuse those flavours in DB could be good.

I would love to hear if anyone has used these flavours - what worked and what didn't.

Thank you!!


----------



## Johnd

AdamDubeau said:


> So I'm looking for something with a little more flavor and kick, which brought me to the DB recipe. After reading it over, I got thinking that would it be possible to take the "triple berry" mix and instead of straining it through the bag, could I run it through my Champion Juicer?
> 
> Would there be something missing by juicing it, as in, would the wine be missing out on the steeping of the skins from the berries? Would it take longer to clear?



I don't think you need to juice it, the pectic enzyme and yeast do a pretty darn good job. My first batch of this is finishing up in secondary right now. Started with 6 pounds each of blueberry, blackberry, and raspberry and only 3 gallons of water. I put all my fruits/grape in loose, when I strained the fruit out to press it, there was little left of the blackberries or raspberries, but the blueberries were quite plump. After pressing what was left of the 18# of fruit, I had a disk of pomace 5" in diameter and about 2" thick. Point being, let your enzyme/yeast do the heavy lifting, want better flavor, add more fruit. This mix yielded 6.25 gallons after straining and pressing, pretty nice for only a 3 gallon water addition.


----------



## Winenoob66

MrsJones said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has added coconut to any of their DB blends?
> 
> My mom finds my quad berry a bit bitter, but typically enjoys an orange or pinacolada cooler, so I thought trying to fuse those flavours in DB could be good.
> 
> I would love to hear if anyone has used these flavours - what worked and what didn't.
> 
> Thank you!!



Hi MrsJones
I haven't ever tried coconut before but it seems to me the oils might be a problem. But as for the bitterness I found my first batch to be overly tart myself. I now cut the lemon juice back to about 32oz for a 6g batch and love the difference it makes especially at the 3 month mark.

Hope that helps


----------



## bkisel

Adam, have you read through this thread?... http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52684


----------



## TasunkaWitko

@Winenoob66 - one more question, if I may ~

I was converting the recipe over to one gallon last night and think I have a good plan ready to go. One thing I noticed is that there is no campden in the primary. Most recipes I see include one for one gallon. My question is, will adding one to the primary help, hurt, or have no effect with this recipe and method for Dragon's Blood?

Thanks much - I am looking to get this done Saturday or possibly even Friday night.


----------



## bkisel

If I were doing a 1 gallon DB recipe I would not add any campden to the recipe that does not call for it...

Maybe the DB recipe doesn't call for any campden/k-meta is because you're not concerned about wild yeast coming from the frozen berries or perhaps the lemon juice takes care of any wild yeast that might be there. All my other fruit wine recipes do call for campden/k-meta with a 24 hour wait before pitching the yeast. My guess is that if you use just a small amount of k-meta and wait the 24 vs. the 12 hours before pitching the yeast the k-meta will have dissipated and cause no issues.


----------



## TasunkaWitko

bkisel said:


> If I were doing a 1 gallon DB recipe I would not add any campden to the recipe that does not call for it...
> 
> Maybe the DB recipe doesn't call for any campden/k-meta is because you're not concerned about wild yeast coming from the frozen berries or perhaps the lemon juice takes care of any wild yeast that might be there.



My instincts tell me the same; with that in mind, I'll leave it out and follow the recipe. The conversion to one gallon went well and appears to look good, so I will try to get this going in the next couple of days.


----------



## MariusTitulescu

I agree. All in all recipe's are not set in stone (maybe just stone-age ones). It's a guideline, not a rule.
________________________________
Marius
champagne tours Ludes


----------



## freqflyer

*Low alcohol version*

I have made many batches of DB. I have my favorite variation. It's not a whole lot different from the original. I add 10 pounds of sugar.

I would like to make a lower alcohol version. 7-8% or so.

Has anybody made it before?


----------



## Winenoob66

my last batch of original I made it with only 32oz of lemon and lowered the ABV to 10% and it drinks like cool aid


----------



## freqflyer

How much sugar did you use to get to 10%


----------



## Winenoob66

Looking at my notes , I started at 1.072 so actually it was around 9% .

I use this to go by and get a rough idea what my abv is
http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/Potential-Alcohol-Content-from-Original-Gravity


----------



## AdamDubeau

So just a follow up....

My DB is on rack 2, I did a vacuum degas and it looks like it's almost dry. In the primary, I ran the 6 lbs of 4 berry mix from Walmart thru my Champion Juicer, and then strained the whole shot thru a pair of nylons that I sanitized. After 10 days of the "squeezer" method, I finally removed the nylons, because all that was left was seeds. The pectic enzymes pretty much worked their magic. I also took 2 cups of raisins and soaked them in Welch's grape juice overnight, then boiled them on a low boil for 5 minutes. In a couple days I'll give it one more vacuum degas and then add the stabilizer to let it rest for two weeks while I'm on holidays.

Right now I'm drinking some raspberry base skeeter pee out of a Mason Jar. I'm usually a beer drinker but this stuff is damn good.


----------



## WineMan00

After 7 days I was at .998 and removed fruit. Now this morning day 8 I was at .992. Tonight 'm at .990. Should I rack to secondary. And stabilize degas and back sweeten at same time?

1.080 was OG. How much sugar does the fruit bag add on in terms of ABV?


----------



## reefman

I always go by the rule to wait for three days of stable SpG readings before racking, sweetening and stabilizing.
Then wait another week to make sure fermentation doesn't restart....then bottle.


----------



## wineforfun

WineMan00 said:


> After 7 days I was at .998 and removed fruit. Now this morning day 8 I was at .992. Tonight 'm at .990. Should I rack to secondary. And stabilize degas and back sweeten at same time?
> 
> 1.080 was OG. How much sugar does the fruit bag add on in terms of ABV?



You need to clear it before adding sorbate and backsweetening.
If it is at .990, rack it to a carboy, add kmeta and SuperKleer. After approx. 1-2 weeks, rack it off the lees. Then you can sorbate, backsweeten, etc. and get ready for bottling.


----------



## WineMan00

14 hours after racking, degassing, fining. Sparklloid all seemed to be settle out to the bottom already but not much clearer. Will have to give it time. 

Afterwards I read to let the sparklloid sit for 15 min after boiling but I poured it in right away. My directions didn't mention that. Should I add more?


----------



## reefman

when you can shine a flashlight through the carboy and not see the beam reflecting off particles in the wine, then its done clearing!


----------



## wineforfun

WineMan00 said:


> View attachment 28004
> 
> 
> 14 hours after racking, degassing, fining. Sparklloid all seemed to be settle out to the bottom already but not much clearer. Will have to give it time.
> 
> Afterwards I read to let the sparklloid sit for 15 min after boiling but I poured it in right away. My directions didn't mention that. Should I add more?



Give it time to work. It won't clear in a day. I boil mine for 5 minutes, then add immediately while still hot. That is per instructions on container. I will say that I no longer use Sparkloid due to the "whispies" it seems to leave behind. I only use SuperKleer now.


----------



## jumby

wineforfun said:


> Give it time to work. It won't clear in a day. I boil mine for 5 minutes, then add immediately while still hot. That is per instructions on container. I will say that I no longer use Sparkloid due to the "whispies" it seems to leave behind. I only use SuperKleer now.



+1 for not using Sparkloid. SuperKleer does much better job IMHO.


----------



## Rampage4all

Racked tripleberry and back sweetened with 120oz. blueberry blackberry juice and blended one liter of 100% blackberry wine 12%abv


----------



## CGish

Finally got around to bottling the Tropical Dragon batch. Yield was 76.5 bottles. Taste at bottling is an in your face blast of pineapple acidity that flows into a wonderful I just bit into a fresh apricot taste. Not sure where the apricot is coming from - perhaps the mango/peach combination from the mixed fruit blend?


----------



## bkisel

Another SuperKlear fan here with easily a half dozen or more DBs or DB variations made.


----------



## RedRockGirl

I finally get it.... why people love DB. 
DB was the first wine I made in early December last year. I made 6 gallons, and then after racking it to secondary, I started an 18 gallon batch. When I first tried it at 3 weeks, I thought it was awful. I was seriously regretting making 18 gallons. Friends wanted to try my wine, and I didn't dare because it was not good. We let it age for a month, bottled and started drinking it. I still didn't love it, but with each bottle/week I could tell it was getting better. At 3+ months, I'm really loving it. Now I just need to bottle the 18 gallons and get another 18 started.


----------



## WineMan00

It's been a week after sparklloid and doesn't seem much clearer. Seems hazy Is it ok to add superkleer and pectic enzyme?


----------



## jumby

Approximately how much sugar does the fruit bag add to the fermentation?


----------



## Rmarsh

Bottled 24 bottles a few days ago, about a month from pitching to bottling. Already planning on making another batch when my fermenter is free next week!


----------



## Winenoob66

Nice, I like the label to.


----------



## knifemaker

WineMan00 said:


> It's been a week after sparklloid and doesn't seem much clearer. Seems hazy Is it ok to add superkleer and pectic enzyme?



Just give it some time, are you sure it was degassed enough? If it's still holding onto co2, then it's going to take longer to clear. You can stir the sparkalloid back up into it and it's not going to hurt anything and also degas a little more while you're doing it. Or you can just forget about it and start two more batches to keep you busy! Dale.


----------



## WineMan00

I racked again. Added super kleer and pectic enzyme. 4 hours later it's crystal clear. With about 1.5 -2 inches of sediment. That stuff is amazing


----------



## swedgin

Is there a recipe for Blue Macaw somewhere?


----------



## mwulf67

swedgin said:


> Is there a recipe for Blue Macaw somewhere?



This is what have in my DB notes that I've pruned from this thread over time. I haven't personally made this version yet....



> "The Blue Macaw (tropical fruit) is made exactly like the Dragon Blood, with the following exception(s). I use 6# of Walmart Best Value Tropical Fruit Blend (peach, mango, pineapple, strawberry) in place of the 6# of triple berry blend. There are a few variations you can do based on your personal preference. In my original batch of tropical fruit wine, I left out the lemon juice altogether, and instead added 3tsp of acid blend. This resulted in a very smooth, fruity finish. Sweet and supple. The next time, I used a single bottle of Real Lemon Juice (48oz) in the primary. The result was a nicely balanced fruity tropical wine with just a hit of acidity." If you don't have acid blend, just add some lemon juice. A whole 48oz may be too much for some folks. If I did it again, I'd add maybe 24oz of lemon juice. Otherwise, it is made exactly like the DB. How is that for easy! It's one of my wife's favorates. I'm starting some of this wine this week in anticipation of summer consumption


----------



## swedgin

So what makes it blue? Pardon my ignorance.


----------



## mwulf67

swedgin said:


> So what makes it blue? Pardon my ignorance.



Like I say, I have haven’t made this version yet, but I believe _Blue Macaw_ was used just denote something tropical tasting/and for labeling, not the color…I would think this version would turn out rather clear/colorless…


----------



## jumby

It's turns out a beautiful golden color. It picks up the colors of the mangos, peaches and pineapples. I'm actually enjoying a glass as I'm typing this.


----------



## jumby

Here's a picture of it.


----------



## jumby

Here's a picture of it clearing next to a traditional batch of DB. I use 9-10lbs of fruit per 6 gallon batch btw.


----------



## willie

mwulf67 said:


> This is what have in my DB notes that I've pruned from this thread over time. I haven't personally made this version yet....



We just call this Tropical DB. When I first read this I was thinking it had a blue color to it or something. We made a batch back in Dec. and yes it is real good. 

Will


----------



## dallase

*30 days old*

She spent last week cold crashing and today did a 2 pass P5 filter on her.

Gorgeous isnt she!


----------



## Winenoob66

dallase said:


> She spent last week cold crashing and today did a 2 pass P5 filter on her.
> 
> Gorgeous isnt she!



Very pretty.

I done my tropical a little differently, Instead of using the lemon juice or acid blend. I went with 2 48oz cans of Dole Pineapple juice. I also added 2 cans of White Grape Juice concentrate and 6 medium sized bananas. And needless to say as far as anyone knows in the future I poured this one out. Muhahahhaah


----------



## Jericurl

@dallase , she's gorgeous. But more importantly, how does it taste?!


----------



## swedgin

Winenoob66 said:


> Very pretty.
> 
> I done my tropical a little differently, Instead of using the lemon juice or acid blend. I went with 2 48oz cans of Dole Pineapple juice. I also added 2 cans of White Grape Juice concentrate and 6 medium sized bananas. And needless to say as far as anyone knows in the future I poured this one out. Muhahahhaah



Have you tasted it yet? How is it? I'm planning a tropical with pineapple juice instead of lemon and also using golden raisins and bananas. Is it worth it? Did you still add tannins on top of the bananas?


----------



## Winenoob66

I added no tanning, and the taste is amazing. It is still bulk aging but from what I see so far this could be my best DB variation yet. here is what I done:

2 48oz cans Dole Pineapple juice
6 lbs Tropical mix fruit (Pineapple, Papaya, Mango, Strawberry)
6 med size bananas (sliced 1/4" thick and not frozen)
2 cans White grape juice concentrate
20 cups Sugar
Yeast Nutrient to label directions
Yeast Energizer to label directions
Pectin Enzyme to label directions
Water to 6.5 gallons
Yeast will be Lalvin 71B-1122 because (A semi-dry white wine yeast 
that will enhance fruit flavors and add fruity esters. 
Can be used with whites, rosés, nouveaus, and concentrates.)

this gave me a SG of 1.094


----------



## swedgin

Winenoob66 said:


> I added no tanning, and the taste is amazing. It is still bulk aging but from what I see so far this could be my best DB variation yet. here is what I done:
> 
> 2 48oz cans Dole Pineapple juice
> 6 lbs Tropical mix fruit (Pineapple, Papaya, Mango, Strawberry)
> 6 med size bananas (sliced 1/4" thick and not frozen)
> 2 cans White grape juice concentrate
> 20 cups Sugar
> Yeast Nutrient to label directions
> Yeast Energizer to label directions
> Pectin Enzyme to label directions
> Water to 6.5 gallons
> Yeast will be Lalvin 71B-1122 because (A semi-dry white wine yeast
> that will enhance fruit flavors and add fruity esters.
> Can be used with whites, rosés, nouveaus, and concentrates.)
> 
> this gave me a SG of 1.094




Nice, that looks good. Thanks.


----------



## dallase

Jericurl said:


> @dallase , she's gorgeous. But more importantly, how does it taste?!



The best 1mo old wine I've made so far. Has a bit of bite yet (~13%ABV 0.60TA 3.58PH), so I think another month or two to let it mellow out some more.


----------



## wineforfun

@Jericurl Been meaning to write you. I opened a bottle of the Christmas DB a couple weeks ago. Still have a couple left. It was awesome, still has that nice hint of anise hanging out in it. Still the best smelling and tasting I think of all the DB I have made. It is sitting at the 14 mo. old mark right now. 
I can tell you it will probably be the only version I will continue to make as I have another recipe for a quick drinker that involves a lot less work than DB.


----------



## gaboy

wineforfun said:


> @Jericurl Been meaning to write you. I opened a bottle of the Christmas DB a couple weeks ago. Still have a couple left. It was awesome, still has that nice hint of anise hanging out in it. Still the best smelling and tasting I think of all the DB I have made. It is sitting at the 14 mo. old mark right now.
> I can tell you it will probably be the only version I will continue to make as I have another recipe for a quick drinker that involves a lot less work than DB.


Would you mind sharing the recipe for your "quick drinker"? Henry


----------



## wineforfun

gaboy said:


> Would you mind sharing the recipe for your "quick drinker"? Henry



Sure thing and I have to give credit to ffemt128 (Mark) as that is who I received it from, if I remember correctly.

For a 2 gal. batch (adjust for different size accordingly)

15 oz. Real Lemon juice
8 oz. Real Lime juice
Sugar to 1.095
EC-1118 yeast
Nutrient - 1 1/2 tsp now, 1/2 tsp. at 1.050-1.060
1/4 tsp tannin, may have to adjust next time depending on your preferences
At around 1.020-1.030, add the 8 oz. Real Lime

Ferment in bucket down to below 1.000
Rack to carboy(s), let sit for 1 week or so to reach dry, .990-.994
Rack to carboy(s), add kmeta and SuperKleer, will be cleared in under a week. I usually let sit for 1-2 weeks to make sure all sediment has dropped.
Rack to carboy(s), add sorbate, sugar and 10-12oz. Old Orchard 100% juice concentrate.
Let sit for 1 week, bottle.
Can be drank right away or wait. I don't notice any real difference in aging this.
Also, my personal favorites for concentrates are Blueberry/Pomegranate, Cranberry and Strawberry Kiwi.


----------



## gaboy

WineforFun::: Thanks for the recipe, I'll have to give it a try!!! GaBoy


----------



## wineforfun

@gaboy You're welcome. It is very straightforward and easy to make. 5-6 weeks to ferment, clear and bottle.................then consume..........repeat.


----------



## barryjo

Sounds good. Was that 2 cans Dole from concentrate? I doubt you used the mixed with other things kind.


----------



## Winenoob66

Not sure if it is from concentrate or not. Just the normal ones ya would get to drink that come in the metal can.


----------



## MrsJones

Here goes... I'm starting another variation tonight.

Replacing lemon with lime (2 440ml bottles). Fruit is a strawberry, peach, mango blend and I have about 8 lbs. Adding two liters of coconut water (brand O.N.E). 

Fingers crossed! I'm going for a light tropical taste.


----------



## Tnuscan

MrsJones said:


> Here goes... I'm starting another variation tonight.
> 
> Replacing lemon with lime (2 440ml bottles). Fruit is a strawberry, peach, mango blend and I have about 8 lbs. Adding two liters of coconut water (brand O.N.E).
> 
> Fingers crossed! I'm going for a light tropical taste.



Sure sounds interesting, keep us posted !!!


----------



## swedgin

My DB is at 0.998 right now, prior to the first racking. The problem is that I'm about to go out of town for a week on Sunday April 17th.


Should i just leave I it on the lees for the next week (thinking no on this one) or should I just rack it before I leave but wait until I get back for the additives like sorbate and Sparkolloid? 

Thanks guys.


----------



## jumby

I would rack it and get it under airlock.


----------



## swedgin

jumby said:


> I would rack it and get it under airlock.



Should i rack again when I get back, with all of the additives included?


----------



## jumby

Personally I would rack it again and add the sorbate and potassium metabisulfate then.


----------



## swedgin

Thanks for the validation. That's what I'll do.


----------



## jumby

swedgin said:


> Thanks for the validation. That's what I'll do.



I highly recommend using SuperKleer instead of Sparkolliod. IMHO it clears a lot better then Sparkolloid and is easier to use.


----------



## swedgin

I think Sparkolloid is all they had at my LHBS. I'll look for it though. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Tnuscan

MrsJones said:


> Here goes... I'm starting another variation tonight.
> 
> Replacing lemon with lime (2 440ml bottles). Fruit is a strawberry, peach, mango blend and I have about 8 lbs. Adding two liters of coconut water (brand O.N.E).
> 
> Fingers crossed! I'm going for a light tropical taste.
> 
> View attachment 28428



How many gallons is this ?


----------



## MrsJones

Tnuscan said:


> How many gallons is this ?



Six  It could be a bit light on the acid, but I'm hoping not. My mom doesn't love the original recipe so I'm trying to find something that she will.


----------



## swedgin

Ok so I racked off the lees (again, early due to previously mentioned circumstance), the SG is currently 0.992 and I'm sure it's not yet stable. I have not added sorbate or Campden or anything yet, will do that when I get back. My question is, is this an ok level for headspace for the next week until I can rack again properly onto Campden/Sorbate? I know it's not an ideal level in general, but will it be ok for a week? If not, how can I fix it? 









My second question is, there still seems to be small fruit bits floating around in there that aren't sinking. Will these go away once I add the Sparkolloid or super kleer or do I need to add more pectin before I leave or something else?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Winenoob66

I would strongly suggest adding the camden and sorbate now before you leave for a week. Camden tablets will help protect against Oxidation. The first stage of making wine Oxygen is a good thing 2nd stage and beyond Oxygen is not a good thing. 2nd stage you will usually have Co2 escaping so you might be ok with the levels you have now but I would suggest topping it off to cut down on the headspace, but leave it if you must but it is not good practice.

Sorbate will stop the yeast from reproducing there for adding it now when the must has no sugar will let the yeast that are there die off and when you get back you will be able to backsweeten and not have to worry to much about if refermentation will start back up.


----------



## swedgin

What can I top it up with? I have no wine. What else will work?


----------



## cintipam

When in a crunch I have often used regular fruit juice of a variety that you think will blend well with the wine. BUT BUT BUT do NOT add the sorbate as that way the yeast has some time to eat the sugar in the fruitjuice. I would also skip the kmeta or campden til you get back as by then the sugar will be gone and you should be good to proceed.

At this very very early stage you could prob get by with that level for a short time, but I sense you have nothing to rack it down into, thus I think adding juice would be your best bet at this time.

Also don't worry bout the floaties. They will eventually drop and you will rack the wine off of them.

Pam in cinti


----------



## swedgin

I just feel like adding the Campden / sorbate now is a bad idea since I haven't given the wine time to stabilize but I'm still quite new to winemaking so I don't know if it actually IS a bad idea or not. 

I'd rather avoid adding juice if I can as I'm curious how the unadulterated finished product will turn out, but I'll add it if I have to. Any suggestions for the standard DB recipe? 

Can I add water? Tap or bottled? 

Thanks guys!


----------



## jumby

swedgin said:


> I just feel like adding the Campden / sorbate now is a bad idea since I haven't given the wine time to stabilize but I'm still quite new to winemaking so I don't know if it actually IS a bad idea or not.
> 
> I'd rather avoid adding juice if I can as I'm curious how the unadulterated finished product will turn out, but I'll add it if I have to. Any suggestions for the standard DB recipe?
> 
> Can I add water? Tap or bottled?
> 
> Thanks guys!



If you add tap water you are going to dilute it. You'd be better off picking up a cheap blush or white merlot and topping it off with that.


----------



## swedgin

So I ended up just topping up with a similar preservative free juice.


----------



## WineMan00

So i had dragon blood ferment and cleared in 2 weeks. bulk age for 3 weeks then Back sweetened and bottled a week after that. So it's been 1.5 months and Currently it tastes like kool aid with alcohol.... Does it get better?


----------



## MrsJones

WineMan00 said:


> So i had dragon blood ferment and cleared in 2 weeks. bulk age for 3 weeks then Back sweetened and bottled a week after that. So it's been 1.5 months and Currently it tastes like kool aid with alcohol.... Does it get better?




Did you use the original recipe? How much did you back sweeten?


----------



## WineMan00

Yeah I didn't change anything. 4.5 cups in 6 gallons. Went to about 1.006


----------



## swedgin

So I only have one 6 gallon carboy (and two 5 gallon carboys) and an 8 gallon fermenting bucket. My must is currently stable at 0.992 in my 6 gallon carboy but now I have to rack onto sorbate, et cetera. 

My question is this: can I rack back into the fermenting bucket to degas, clean the 6 gallon carboy and then rack back into the 6 gallon onto sorbate? Or will oxygen be a problem if I do that?


----------



## Jericurl

swedgin said:


> My question is this: can I rack back into the fermenting bucket to degas, clean the 6 gallon carboy and then rack back into the 6 gallon onto sorbate? Or will oxygen be a problem if I do that?



Yes...work quickly and you will be fine. I rack quickly into a bucket, clean my carboy, then rack back all the time.

My question to you though is why are you needing to rack from secondary?

Usually I rack DB once, from primary into secondary, then do everything in that secondary container. Sometimes (though rarely) I will rack again just prior to bottling if my SuperKleer managed to drop out a ridiculous amount of sediment.


----------



## sour_grapes

Jeri, I think he is trying to avoid a wine volcano. Don't you encounter any problems with that, if you degas in a carboy?


----------



## swedgin

Yes, for easier degassing and because going out of town forced me out of my primary early (see my earlier posts for details).


----------



## dcbrown73

So, I started the DB yesterday and added sugar till it reached 1.075. I waited basically 24 hours (till I got home from work) and squeezed the bag of fruit a bit more then stirred and took another sugar measurment. Instead of going up (based on sugars from the fruit) it actually went down to 1.067. (I haven't yet pitched the yeast as the directions say)

This is okay or expected? Because it wasn't for me. I'm about to pitch the yeast now (still sitting in the 100F water for 15 minutes) Should I add sugar to get it back to 1.075? Why would it have went down unless maybe natural yeast started banging away at the sugar?


----------



## swedgin

My SG unexpectedly went up from 0.992 where it was for about a week, to 0.994 just now. Thought that was odd.


----------



## Rampage4all

swedgin said:


> My SG unexpectedly went up from 0.992 where it was for about a week, to 0.994 just now. Thought that was odd.



Was the temp the same at both readings?That could just be temp differences.


----------



## dcbrown73

Does French oak work for the DB or is it better without it? I have a couple of 3 gallon carboys and some extra french oak that I bought for my Chardonnay. I was wondering if maybe I try to oak half of the batch like I'm doing the Chardonnay.

...also, maybe a bump to my last question (above) I am slightly concerned if I need to add more sugar to my batch.


----------



## wineforfun

I would add more period. Although it is preference, I like my DB to start off around 1.090-1.095.

As far as oak, Dave had tried some early on(and I followed his lead). If I recall, we used untoasted American. It really didn't do much for it. If you have the French left, I would set a gallon aside and oak it to see what you think.


----------



## swedgin

Rampage4all said:


> Was the temp the same at both readings?That could just be temp differences.



Yes, a four degrees difference. I always forget that temperature matters.


----------



## barryjo

swedgin said:


> Yes, a four degrees difference. I always forget that temperature matters.



I don't think 4 degrees would make that much change. Using the temp conversion table with my hydrometer, 4 degrees is only about 0.001 difference.
Maybe even less. 
Did you spin the hydrometer before reading? Also, the first reading may have been taken immediately after pouring the sample . Entrained air would lower the reading.
Just some thoughts.


----------



## MrsJones

WineMan00 said:


> Yeah I didn't change anything. 4.5 cups in 6 gallons. Went to about 1.006




Flavour peaks at about three months, so you may just want to wait a little longer before opening your next bottle. I enjoy it most when it's Very cold.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

I am going to start a batch of Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart this week. I have been thinking about trying to make some of this carbonated but wanted to run my ideas by you all to see if my thought process is flawed. My plan is to make and ferment to dry per the recipe. Then for at least part of the batch, I will not add sorbate or sulfites and will let it set to naturally drop sediment. Once it has cleared a bit, I will backsweeten, with SUGAR-FREE DaVinci or Toriani syrup...the hardest part here may be trying to determine the proper sweetness level. Then I will prime and bottle in beer bottles. What do you think? If you think it would work, do you suggest using the same amount of priming sugar as you would beer? Thanks in advance for your input.

Valorie


----------



## swedgin

barryjo said:


> I don't think 4 degrees would make that much change. Using the temp conversion table with my hydrometer, 4 degrees is only about 0.001 difference.
> Maybe even less.
> Did you spin the hydrometer before reading? Also, the first reading may have been taken immediately after pouring the sample . Entrained air would lower the reading.
> Just some thoughts.




Spin the hydrometer?


I typically take a sample with a wine thief, then drop the hydrometer gently into the thief for a reading.


----------



## JetJockey

I use a wine thief as well, but spin it quickly as dropping it in with my thumb/index finger. Spinning helps remove the air bubbles that adhere to the hydrometer from dropping it in. The air bubbles may affect the reading slightly. Don't know if it would affect it as much as trying to guess where the meniscus of the wine is on the tiny scale!


----------



## dallase

Get a lab grade hydrometer with precise measure. There are 3 different ones. I like having this one 

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/lab-grade-hydrometer-980-1-020.html


----------



## swedgin

JetJockey said:


> I use a wine thief as well, but spin it quickly as dropping it in with my thumb/index finger. Spinning helps remove the air bubbles that adhere to the hydrometer from dropping it in. The air bubbles may affect the reading slightly. Don't know if it would affect it as much as trying to guess where the meniscus of the wine is on the tiny scale!




Aha, thanks for the tip!






dallase said:


> Get a lab grade hydrometer with precise measure. There are 3 different ones. I like having this one
> 
> http://www.midwestsupplies.com/lab-grade-hydrometer-980-1-020.html



Seems useful. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## barbl72

I am an avid DB maker and so excited I bought a new carboy! BUT It is a 7 gallon carboy - not a 6 gallon. Can't return it as I bought it several hours away from my house. Any suggestions????


----------



## swedgin

barbl72 said:


> I am an avid DB maker and so excited I bought a new carboy! BUT It is a 7 gallon carboy - not a 6 gallon. Can't return it as I bought it several hours away from my house. Any suggestions????



Put it on craigslist and take a small hit or suck it up and drive back. That's what I would do anyway but most people aren't as dumb as I am.


----------



## sour_grapes

barbl72 said:


> I am an avid DB maker and so excited I bought a new carboy! BUT It is a 7 gallon carboy - not a 6 gallon. Can't return it as I bought it several hours away from my house. Any suggestions????



But if you are making dragon blood, you can make it to any volume you wish! Just ad 15% more of all the ingredients (except for yeast).


----------



## barryjo

barbl72 said:


> I am an avid DB maker and so excited I bought a new carboy! BUT It is a 7 gallon carboy - not a 6 gallon. Can't return it as I bought it several hours away from my house. Any suggestions????



There is nothing magic about using a 6 gal carboy. Either increase the volume as suggested (not a bad idea BTW) or use as it is. A larger volume carboy will prevent (most) volcanoes! Always a fun occurrence! If you are concerned about headspace, don't worry . While fermenting, CO2 fills the space. And in the secondary, as long as no outside air enters, you should be good. I usually rack just before fermentation is done for this reason.


----------



## dcbrown73

I was going to move along to the next step, but my fermentation happened slower than my other wines, but it's still moving. I racked it into a secondary fermentation carboy at 1.005 even though it doesn't say to do that. I just wanted to get it out of the bucket and into something with less headspace as I got down low. As of yesterday, it's at 0.995. I'm going to let it bottom out before I move forward with it (clearing / sorbate) I run the degassing whip on it for a little bit each day when I check the gravity so it's degassed before I add the sparkloid. 







I'm pretty excited about this and my buddy came over and read the DB instructions and he got pretty excited about it too.


----------



## dcbrown73

I racked it and topped it up with a Beringer White Zinfandel as the instructions said. I didn't need much White Zin as it seems I had slightly over six gallons to start with.

So, I haven't tried White Zinfandel in years basically because when I had tried it well before I really got into wine, I didn't like it.

So, I tried what was left after topping off the DB and I have to say. My thoughts have not changed. This is one wine I really do not like. Regular Zinfandel is quickly becoming one of my favorite grapes/wine along with Pinot Noir, Shiraz/Syrah and of course many red blends from Europe. White Zinfandel, yeah not so much. I poured the rest of the bottle out. It's undrinkable for me. I'm glad I didn't need much for the DB and hopefully it doesn't impart that flavor on the DB. 


Ready for clearing!


----------



## wineforfun

@dcbrown73 Have you made DB before? You do realize it is much closer to a White Zin than a regular Zin?


----------



## dcbrown73

wineforfun said:


> @dcbrown73 Have you made DB before? You do realize it is much closer to a White Zin than a regular Zin?



Nope, this is my only my 3rd batch ever and first non-kit batch. I will be extremely sad if it tastes like White Zinfandel. That taste profile does not jive with me at all. Since taking up wine, my palate has opened up 2-3x what it used to be, but I learned last night. White Zinfandel (at least Beringers) is still a no-go. 

It's weird too, because I can taste rose petals and stuff in some wines which I like, but the White Zinfandel is like eating a rose that had it's flavor intensified an immeasurable amount. It's just way to intense of a rose petal flavor. 

I'm hoping the DB tastes more like the fruit I'm making it from. (blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, and strawberries) If it actually taste like White Zin, it will be given away or dumped.


----------



## bkisel

David, even if your DB doesn't turn out to your particular liking it seems DB, in my experience, is liked by most folks. Worst case is you'll have almost 30 bottles of wine to gift to folks who will likely enjoy your DB.


----------



## wineforfun

dcbrown73 said:


> Nope, this is my only my 3rd batch ever and first non-kit batch. I will be extremely sad if it tastes like White Zinfandel. That taste profile does not jive with me at all. Since taking up wine, my palate has opened up 2-3x what it used to be, but I learned last night. White Zinfandel (at least Beringers) is still a no-go.
> 
> It's weird too, because I can taste rose petals and stuff in some wines which I like, but the White Zinfandel is like eating a rose that had it's flavor intensified an immeasurable amount. It's just way to intense of a rose petal flavor.
> 
> I'm hoping the DB tastes more like the fruit I'm making it from. (blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, and strawberries) If it actually taste like White Zin, it will be given away or dumped.



Again, it's not a White Zin, but similar. I believe DB is a fuller, thicker flavor than most of the thinner White Zins. Also, your DB is going to have a "bite" (from the lemon juice) that White Zins don't have. 
I am a dry red drinker also, but don't mind a DB type wine once in awhile. I just make mine around 13% ABV and semi-sweet to semi-dry. You need some sugar to pull out the berry flavor in it.
Another thing, even if it isn't to your liking at bottling, give it a few months as a few months in the bottle seems to bring the fruit more forward and blend things together.


----------



## reefman

I'm not a huge fan of DB, but my wife and her friends all like it.
I've only made one batch so far, and if I make it again, I will increase the amount of fruit for sure.


----------



## wineforfun

reefman said:


> I'm not a huge fan of DB, but my wife and her friends all like it.
> I've only made one batch so far, and if I make it again, I will increase the amount of fruit for sure.



My favorite DB so far has been Jericurl's Christmas DB. DB with some nice additions such as anise and other things.

I have tried many variations of DB and that one is my favorite. If I make the standard version(which isn't very often) I like to use lime juice in place of the lemon juice.


----------



## reefman

Is there a link to Jericurls recipe?...sounds interesting.


----------



## wineforfun

reefman said:


> Is there a link to Jericurls recipe?...sounds interesting.



Ok, I just scanned through a bunch of DB pages and jericurl pages, no luck. Maybe she will she this, @jericurl, and respond. I have it at home and can post next week if not.


----------



## Jericurl

wineforfun said:


> Ok, I just scanned through a bunch of DB pages and jericurl pages, no luck. Maybe she will she this, @jericurl, and respond. I have it at home and can post next week if not.



Hi guys!

@wineforfun , thanks for the kudos.

The easiest way I've found to search for this recipe to is to be in this thread, hit the search within this thread link, then type in Christmas.
It hits all the tweaks people have done with this recipe.
And of course, all thanks to @dangerdave for starting this whole DB craze!

Here are a few links to get you started @reefman :

Here is the original Christmas 2013:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=475043&postcount=832

Here is what I did for Christmas 2015:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=581959&postcount=3386

Here is how I tweaked my Christmas 2015 batch:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=581241&postcount=3367


And here is my overall absolute favorite DB recipe that I've done:
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=552451&postcount=2807


----------



## Kracker

getting ready to start my first batch. should the fruit be mashed up? also anyone have the breakdown for 5 gallons? im not good at that part


----------



## Winenoob66

No need to mash up the fruit the Pectin will practically dissolve it on its own. As for making it into a 5 gallon batch. The first batch I done was a 5 gallon batch I just changed the chemicals to label directions and kept the fruit the same. As for the Lemon juice that I now cut way back to 32 oz for a 6 gallon batch because it is so tart. So if I was you I would cut back to 32oz unless you like tartness.


----------



## dallase

Winenoob66 said:


> No need to mash up the fruit the Pectin will practically dissolve it on its own. As for making it into a 5 gallon batch. The first batch I done was a 5 gallon batch I just changed the chemicals to label directions and kept the fruit the same. As for the Lemon juice that I now cut way back to 32 oz for a 6 gallon batch because it is so tart. So if I was you I would cut back to 32oz unless you like tartness.



What are pH and TA after fermentation? Do you add any acid blend to replace what you loose from less lemon?

I followed recipe (except i took to 13.5abv), and after a couple months in carboy, I find the tartness has softened. At first it does have quite a bite.


----------



## Black-opal

*dried cherry DB question*

Has anyone tackled this using dried cherries? I have access to a few pounds of them that I was thinking of adding to my 'newpee' (skeeter pee made with Newmans Own instead of real lemon.)


----------



## Winenoob66

I have never done a ph or ta reading its not really a science experiment its just a simple drink quick fruit wine like Dave intended it to be

I did find that by dropping the lemon down some and decreasing the ABV to around 9 or 10 % it is drinkable quicker than 3 months with a smooth flavor


----------



## dcbrown73

Jericurl said:


> The easiest way I've found to search for this recipe to is to be in this thread, hit the search within this thread link, then type in Christmas.
> It hits all the tweaks people have done with this recipe.
> And of course, all thanks to @dangerdave for starting this whole DB craze!



Another great way to search websites that have lots of content is to use Google and use their results. In Google's search window, just type the following:



Code:


site:winemakingtalk.com (search term)


Using the "site: domainname" (no space after the colon, I had to add a space because the forum wants to add an emoji) tells Google to only search that specific website for the content you're looking for. This works with any site, but I use it all the time for searching Internet forums like this. Their search is generally much better (and faster) than the forum's built in search.


----------



## Jericurl

Black-opal said:


> Has anyone tackled this using dried cherries? I have access to a few pounds of them that I was thinking of adding to my 'newpee' (skeeter pee made with Newmans Own instead of real lemon.)



Haven't tried it, but I can see a cherry limeade (or lemonaid) twist working really well with DB. 
Just make sure the dried cherries don't have sulfites or sorbic acid added.

eta: If you do it, I would add some water and send the cherries through the food processor.


----------



## Black-opal

it'll be limeade, I like the flavor profile better. 

my thoughts were to chop up the dried cherries in cherry juice and let them rehydrate a bit before the yeast is pitched.

I will let you all know how it comes out!


----------



## dcbrown73

Last night I racked my DB into a new carboy. It was very clear (well, it got a bit hazy after racking it when I got down to the bottom. Hopefully that will clear up a bit.

Anyhow, I was back sweetening it and just pulled out a cup of the wine so I could sweeten that until I felt comfortable with the sweetness then do the math and sweeten the rest. Well, with one cup, I ended up adding seven teaspoons of sugar before I felt the wine wasn't harshly dry and acidic. If you do the math, that is way way way more than recommended by David's direction. (that is equal to 2.33 cups per gallon!) 

I ended up just putting 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon (4.5 cups total or 2.25 teaspoons (vs 7!) per cup of wine) for the entire six gallons. It says "don't over sweeten the fruit will mix with the sugar and sweetness will come out", but I was a bit thrown off. Will the sweetness really come that much forward once the fruit flavors integrate with the sugar that was added? This is normal?


----------



## sour_grapes

dcbrown73 said:


> It says "don't over sweeten the fruit will mix with the sugar and sweetness will come out", but I was a bit thrown off. Will the sweetness really come that much forward once the fruit flavors integrate with the sugar that was added? This is normal?



Table sugar (sucrose) can be split into two simpler sugars, fructose and glucose. That is what you do when you make simple syrup (aka "inverted sugar"). Fructose is much sweeter-tasting than sucrose. So, inverted sugar is sweeter than table sugar.

When you make simple sugar, you split the sucrose right away. However, sucrose will also split in an acidic solution, but it takes more time. I have no idea of how long it will take at room temperature, maybe a chemist can chime in. In summary, my hypothesis is that the sucrose you add to your DB will slowly split into its constituent parts and the sense of sweetness will increase. I do not know if this effect is responsible, but this is my hunch.


----------



## dcbrown73

sour_grapes said:


> Table sugar (sucrose) can be split into two simpler sugars, fructose and glucose. That is what you do when you make simple syrup (aka "inverted sugar"). Fructose is much sweeter-tasting than sucrose. So, inverted sugar is sweeter than table sugar.
> 
> When you make simple sugar, you split the sucrose right away. However, sucrose will also split in an acidic solution, but it takes more time. I have no idea of how long it will take at room temperature, maybe a chemist can chime in. In summary, my hypothesis is that the sucrose you add to your DB will slowly split into its constituent parts and the sense of sweetness will increase. I do not know if this effect is responsible, but this is my hunch.




Hmm. If I made simple syrup in the future for back sweetening, I'm guessing the water in the mixture isn't an issue for volume reasons (unless it overflows the carboy I suppose) 

Secondly, is a cup of simple syrup equal to a cup of table sugar?


----------



## sour_grapes

dcbrown73 said:


> Hmm. If I made simple syrup in the future for back sweetening, I'm guessing the water in the mixture isn't an issue for volume reasons (unless it overflows the carboy I suppose)
> 
> Secondly, is a cup of simple syrup equal to a cup of table sugar?



Close, but not quite. Simple syrup is often made as one part (by volume) water, one part (by volume) sugar. Fermcalc says that this combination will wind up with 1.5 parts simple syrup. So 1 cup of syrup would contain the equivalent of about 2/3 of a cup of sugar.


----------



## wineforfun

Black-opal said:


> it'll be limeade, I like the flavor profile better.
> 
> my thoughts were to chop up the dried cherries in cherry juice and let them rehydrate a bit before the yeast is pitched.
> 
> I will let you all know how it comes out!



I have a cherry limeade recipe that is alot less work and time consuming, if that is what you are looking.
Basically ferment Real Lemon (added in beginning) and Real Lime (added around 1.020) and when it is fermented dry and cleared (usually 3 weeks total), then rack onto whatever Old Orchard flavor you like, ie: cherry, strawberry/kiwi, blueberry/pomegranate, mango/passionfruit, etc.


----------



## MrsJones

Back Sweetened my strawberry/mango/peach w/ lime & coconut - and it's a-M-a-zing!! I did six cups sugar because this one is mostly for my mom who didn't find my original sweet enough @4.5 cups.

Cheers!




Looking forward to bottling next weekend!!


----------



## Tnuscan

MrsJones said:


> Back Sweetened my strawberry/mango/peach w/ lime & coconut - and it's a-M-a-zing!! I did six cups sugar because this one is mostly for my mom who didn't find my original sweet enough @4.5 cups.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> View attachment 29076
> 
> 
> Looking forward to bottling next weekend!!



I've really been looking forward to this post!! 

Did the coconut flavor really come through like you were hopping it would?


----------



## MrsJones

Tnuscan said:


> I've really been looking forward to this post!!
> 
> 
> 
> Did the coconut flavor really come through like you were hopping it would?





I couldn't taste it separate from the other flavours yet, but then I don't know how it would be without. I think next time I would do even more coconut now that I know the ferment was successful. I would say the same for the lime. I can't taste it separately but the flavour overall is so good. My mom was super surprised with how much she liked it.


----------



## Jericurl

Well, that's my next DB variation sorted.


----------



## dcbrown73

Question.

On Wednesday, my DB was clear and I racked it. Once it got to the bottom I might have got some of the cruft off the bottom and the DB hazed up again, but most of it was left in the original carboy. Of course, this happen with my chardonnay, but it was clear again the next day. 

Once it was racked, I back sweetened it with 4.5 cups of sugar as noted in the directions and used the degassing wipe to mix the sugar in. All went well. It's been two days since and it doesn't appear to be clearing at all. It's still quite hazy. As hazy as it was after I finished mixing in the sugar on Wednesday. 

Do I need to add more sparkloid? Or a different fining agent? I know two days isn't long, and I'm using sparkloid from which I've read is a bit slower than some of the other options. Opinions? Just wait it out longer?


----------



## Tnuscan

MrsJones said:


> I couldn't taste it separate from the other flavours yet, but then I don't know how it would be without. I think next time I would do even more coconut now that I know the ferment was successful. I would say the same for the lime. I can't taste it separately but the flavour overall is so good. My mom was super surprised with how much she liked it.



A homemade wine with hints of coconut, Oh Yeah... it's been on my mind almost every day. Need to get a few more out of the way and get going on this one soon.


----------



## dcbrown73

dcbrown73 said:


> Question.
> 
> On Wednesday, my DB was clear and I racked it. Once it got to the bottom I might have got some of the cruft off the bottom and the DB hazed up again, but most of it was left in the original carboy. Of course, this happen with my chardonnay, but it was clear again the next day.
> 
> Once it was racked, I back sweetened it with 4.5 cups of sugar as noted in the directions and used the degassing wipe to mix the sugar in. All went well. It's been two days since and it doesn't appear to be clearing at all. It's still quite hazy. As hazy as it was after I finished mixing in the sugar on Wednesday.
> 
> Do I need to add more sparkloid? Or a different fining agent? I know two days isn't long, and I'm using sparkloid from which I've read is a bit slower than some of the other options. Opinions? Just wait it out longer?



Sorry, I'm a bit impatient and I'm going into the city tonight and was hoping to address this before I go if I need to add more fining agents. I think if I do, it will be the Super Kleer though. 

...or should I just try to wait it out. It definitely doesn't appear to be clearing. The hazy is exactly the same as it was Wednesday night.


----------



## dcbrown73

I went a head and added the Super Kleer and it looks like that is doing the trick. I was just worried about the impact of using two different fining agents on the wine would be.


----------



## dcbrown73

I'm getting excited about this. When I first back sweetened it, it was still quite bitter, but the sweetness is starting to come forward a bit. Still more bitter than I want, but I will keep my patient with it and wait for it. Adding the Super Kleer definitely went to work on the hazy that appeared after I racked it. I was / am a bit worried since I added two different clearing agents. (Sparkloid and then Super-Kleer) Not much I can do now except wait and see.


----------



## Winenoob66

Using 2 different clearing agents will be fine


----------



## mnwc2004

Started my very first batch of DB on Sunday. I followed the recipe exactly and used 6 pounds of fruit. Now after reading 45 pages of this thread I'm thinking I should have used more fruit. I'm looking for A LOT of fruit flavor. What can I do? It's been in the primary 3 days now. Starting SG was 1.075 Sunday. Today is Wednesday and SG is 1.055.does this seem slow? Any help or opinions are appreciated.


----------



## dcbrown73

mnwc2004 said:


> Started my very first batch of DB on Sunday. I followed the recipe exactly and used 6 pounds of fruit. Now after reading 45 pages of this thread I'm thinking I should have used more fruit. I'm looking for A LOT of fruit flavor. What can I do? It's been in the primary 3 days now. Starting SG was 1.075 Sunday. Today is Wednesday and SG is 1.055.does this seem slow? Any help or opinions are appreciated.



I used the six pounds of fruit, though mine was a mix of blueberries, blackberries, strawberries, and raspberries and it has plenty of fruit flavor.

I would recommend just following the directions, then learn from there.


----------



## sour_grapes

If you decide that you want to add more fruit, it is not too late at this point to do so. 

Your SG progression seems fine -- don't worry about that.


----------



## mnwc2004

Thank you! I was wondering if it was too late to add more fruit, so it's good to know its not too late. I've also read that the wine could sit on fruit later in the process as well. I think Dave used blueberries, is this just preference or because other berries would disintegrate and cloud the wine?


----------



## willie

mnwc2004 said:


> Started my very first batch of DB on Sunday. I followed the recipe exactly and used 6 pounds of fruit. Now after reading 45 pages of this thread I'm thinking I should have used more fruit. I'm looking for A LOT of fruit flavor. What can I do? It's been in the primary 3 days now. Starting SG was 1.075 Sunday. Today is Wednesday and SG is 1.055.does this seem slow? Any help or opinions are appreciated.



We like the using the 6lb. and 7.5lb. Wyman Triple Berry the best. At present we are drinking a 9lb. batch and we don't like it as well. But that's just us. The Dragon Blood process is just fantastic. I've been playing around with it for 2 yrs. now. The Dragon Blood Thread is a great read from beginning to end. 

Will


----------



## snoopthulhu

This looks like a great thread, and sometime I will definitely start to go through it! But sorry, I'm going to ask a procedural question here without first doing an exhaustive search.

So I'm < 24 hours from the first rack. It says to clear a week then back-sweeten for another week. So why can't those steps be combined? Alternately, if it clears quickly, is there any reason not to go to the sweetening stage then?


----------



## dcbrown73

snoopthulhu said:


> This looks like a great thread, and sometime I will definitely start to go through it! But sorry, I'm going to ask a procedural question here without first doing an exhaustive search.
> 
> So I'm < 24 hours from the first rack. It says to clear a week then back-sweeten for another week. So why can't those steps be combined? Alternately, if it clears quickly, is there any reason not to go to the sweetening stage then?



I would suggest you just follow the directions. Also to note. A schedule isn't always exact. The wine will tell you when it's ready. Impatience is not the winemakers friend.


----------



## freqflyer

Also, this wine will sometimes drop some pectin after it clears. This may be dependent on the clarifier. It won't hurt anything but it doesn't look pretty in the bottle, so be patient


----------



## Winenoob66

Sparkloid is bad for dropping sediment a few months after it was cleared and bottled. So I now use a different one. (Kieselsol & Chitosan)


----------



## mnwc2004

I have a question. I used 6 pounds of triple berry fruit and added 2 cans of white grape concentrate from old orchard. Otherwise I followed directions exactly. My starting SG was 1.075 and finished at .992. I've completed step 4 of the process two days ago and surprisingly my wine is already clear. I have not back sweetened yet. I decided to have a taste today and sadly my DB tastes like nothing. No fruit taste no wine taste. Just nothing. It's very thin feeling as well. Is there anything that can be done at this point to give this wine some sort of flavor?


----------



## Johnd

mnwc2004 said:


> I have a question. I used 6 pounds of triple berry fruit and added 2 cans of white grape concentrate from old orchard. Otherwise I followed directions exactly. My starting SG was 1.075 and finished at .992. I've completed step 4 of the process two days ago and surprisingly my wine is already clear. I have not back sweetened yet. I decided to have a taste today and sadly my DB tastes like nothing. No fruit taste no wine taste. Just nothing. It's very thin feeling as well. Is there anything that can be done at this point to give this wine some sort of flavor?



When you do sweeten your wine, it will bring out more of the fruit flavor, but I find 6 pound for a 6 gallon batch to be thin anyway. When I do this fruit wine, I use 8 pounds each of blue, black, and raspberry. 

Most HBS carry flavoring concentrates you can add to help, I personally find them chemically tasting. You can also try adding triple berry juice, which will also accomplish some of your sweetening, but you'll need to clear it again.


----------



## Grabo

I had a similar concern when making my first Dragon's Blood batch. I tasted it and was a little concerned by the lack of flavor early on. However after a back sweetened, the berry flavors started popping out. About 3 weeks after I bottled (no bulk aging) I started to become impressed with the taste for the cost to produce.

Dragon's Blood was the first batch that I made that I could actually drink early (I have a RJS cab sauv that is still aging). I went through the roller coaster of "oh well this is just a cheap alcoholic drink while I wait for real wine" and then 3 weeks later to "holy crap, it actually tastes good!" Give it some time and it'll become a good summertime drink.


----------



## dcbrown73

I followed the directions to a T and it called for 6 pounds of triple fruit. Thought I could only find a four fruit mix. (Strawberries, Raspberries, Blueberries, and Blackberries) Mine is tasting fantastic now. It was extremely bitter before I back sweetened it. Though I added the 3/4 cups of sugar like the directions noted, but it was still very bitter. Though I listen to the directions saying don't over sweeten it and that when the sugar and fruit flavors had time to blend, the fruit would come forward.

Oh man has it. It tastes absolutely wonderful now. I'm glad I left it the way it was and gave it time to come forward and of course, it's about a month old now and is very drinkable. My plan to bulk age it for three months in the carboy is very much in jeopardy! Some of it may have to age to three months in the bottle!


----------



## Gussman

I always use Super-Kleer. Love the stuff


----------



## mnwc2004

Thank you for the reassurance! I'll back sweeten and be patient!


----------



## Pd2718

*Bottling question*

Can I back sweeten with sugar and grape juice? I Don't want to water down the wine.


----------



## Winenoob66

I actually take some of the wine and heat it until it is just hot enough to dissolve the sugar then mix it back in. But yes if you wanna do it your way then it will be fine.


----------



## gotbags-10

Just racked out of primary. Stabilized but didn't add clearing agent yet. I'm going to back sweeten with frozen berry concentrate. Should I wait to clear after I add the concentrate? Didn't know if it would cloud it back up.


----------



## Winenoob66

You can wait if you like. I usually rack from primary then add k meta and degas. Once the gas is gone, I stabilize then wait a few days to make sure the sorbate has had a chance to take effect good then back sweeten and add clearing agents. Wait another week and bottle or bulk age for 3 months then bottle. (If I bottle it before 3 months there is hardly any of the good stuff left at 3 months)


----------



## wineforfun

Pd2718 said:


> Can I back sweeten with sugar and grape juice? I Don't want to water down the wine.



That is all I ever backsweeten with, plain sugar, as like you, don't want to dilute or water it down.


----------



## NCWC

Trying my hand at making this country wine. I made a simple syrup instead of stirring in the sugar. I also am trying a different yeast Cellar Science RBS 133.
After fruit SG was little over 1.09 Color looks great


----------



## Black-opal

when I make these fun wines I always break the Disaccaride bond into its sucrose and fructose components, which makes it easier for the yeasties to nom on. Science!


----------



## dcbrown73

I've bottled my first wine! Which happen to be the Dragon's Blood since it doesn't require so much aging.

The bottling process was definitely a learning experience. First, it isn't something you want to do by yourself hah. You've also have got to leave space for air in the top too or the cork will squeeze wine out via the side of the cork making the cork and bottle slippery wet and the pressure in the bottle easily push the cork up and partially out of the bottle forcing you to re-cork it after draining a bit of wine out of it.

I used the cheaper 1 year corks on this wine as I don't expect to age it. I bought much better corks for my Eclipse wines.

Best part is keeping it properly topped up, I got 29 bottles out of it plus a half filled 32oz mason jar which I promptly put in the fridge for a bit to chill it down enough to enjoy it now. 

The wine's color looks fantastic!


----------



## NCWC

Been a week and my DDDBW's SG is 1.025 almost done about 75-80 degree ferment


----------



## cintipam

David, you might wind up with corks pushing up. You are supposed to have a good fingers width empty below the cork to leave room for the air to be compressed. Take a good look at pics of other folks bottled wine to see what I mean. I know these will be quick drinkers, but keep an eye on them.

Pam in cinti


----------



## dcbrown73

cintipam said:


> David, you might wind up with corks pushing up. You are supposed to have a good fingers width empty below the cork to leave room for the air to be compressed. Take a good look at pics of other folks bottled wine to see what I mean. I know these will be quick drinkers, but keep an eye on them.
> 
> Pam in cinti



Yes, I figured that out after I corked them. I had to re-cork several of them after I took that picture as several of them started pushing up immediately after corking. (I'm learning something new all the time!)


----------



## Tnuscan

After a closer look Pam is correct, Don't lay them on their sides. I would pull the corks and redo. You need to reset your fill level on your AIO. I took a Large 20ml syringe slid a small piece of tubing on the end then cut the tubing to the desired length. If I over fill, just insert tube, the syringe will hit the top of bottle stopping it, pull up on plunger and you've got a perfect level. Easy way to make sure before you cork.



Edit: Oops, didn't see the post.


----------



## dcbrown73

Tnuscan said:


> After a closer look Pam is correct, Don't lay them on their sides. I would pull the corks and redo. You need to reset your fill level on your AIO. I took a Large 20ml syringe slid a small piece of tubing on the end then cut the tubing to the desired length. If I over fill, just insert tube, the syringe will hit the top of bottle stopping it, pull up on plunger and you've got a perfect level. Easy way to make sure before you cork.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Oops, didn't see the post.



I don't know how to adjust the filling, but I'm heading home now. I will have to look then. Also, it was foamy when it was filling (the wine has no gas, it just foamed up from the splashing I suppose) When I saw filling using it in Youtube videos, it didn't do that.

I suppose I will need to re-cork more of them if it needs a full finger of space. Most now have space, but it might not be a full finger of space.

Still learning! hah


----------



## Tnuscan

Close to the width of a cork, not the length, will be fine.


----------



## dcbrown73

Now that I think about it. The foam was probably from dosing it with 1.5 grams of k-meta. The tester said it was at 20ppm SO2 and I figured I should bring it up to around 57ppm. I did that, then racked it, then filled the bottles. I suppose next time I should dose it then wait a couple of days before bottling.


----------



## NCWC

dcbrown73 said:


> Now that I think about it. The foam was probably from dosing it with 1.5 grams of k-meta. The tester said it was at 20ppm SO2 and I figured I should bring it up to around 57ppm. I did that, then racked it, then filled the bottles. I suppose next time I should dose it then wait a couple of days before bottling.



What is the PH? 57 SO2 sounds high 3.5 ph=50ppm


----------



## Tnuscan

dcbrown73 said:


> Now that I think about it. The foam was probably from dosing it with 1.5 grams of k-meta. The tester said it was at 20ppm SO2 and I figured I should bring it up to around 57ppm. I did that, then racked it, then filled the bottles. I suppose next time I should dose it then wait a couple of days before bottling.



On DB and wine kits that your going to bottle early I'd toss 1/4 tsp. of K-meta in. Fruit and grape wines that your going to bulk age I would keep a closer eye on the so2, with the SC-300. Just my thoughts.


----------



## dcbrown73

NCWC said:


> What is the PH? 57 SO2 sounds high 3.5 ph=50ppm



I didn't know exactly what it needed to be. (I haven't learned that as of yet) I read several places about 50ppm and the documentation I read with the SC-300 matched exactly what I was finding. My ppm was 20 and it said raise it to 57ppm and then gave me the math to figure out how to raise it 37ppm based on the 20ppm and the volume of wine.


----------



## NCWC

For me when you get above 50-60ppm I can taste the SO


----------



## dcbrown73

NCWC said:


> For me when you get above 50-60ppm I can taste the SO



I do not taste it. Besides, based on what I read odds are good the wine will end up less than 57ppm due to SO2 binding.


----------



## NCWC

dcbrown73 said:


> I do not taste it. Besides, based on what I read odds are good the wine will end up less than 57ppm due to SO2 binding.



And it will be gone by Summers end


----------



## NCWC

Rack and add everything as per step 4 a week ago

Went back today to do step 5 and the wine is still fermenting
De-gassed the S out of it last week 
Dont' see how will give an other week


----------



## mennyg19

Hi everyone, I want to make dragon blood as my first wine. I contacted a wine supplies store here in israel for all the supplies. The issue is that I'm jewish and he said that the yeast nutrient, energizer and pectic enzyme are not certified kosher.
I know I can use papaya peels instead of the enzyme, but I cant get that around here either (they dont grow them in israel). Is there anything else I can substitute? Also, anything I can substitute instead of the nutrient and energizer? 
And last question: if I don't substitute, how much will it affect the final product?


----------



## chrisjw

mennyg19 said:


> Hi everyone, I want to make dragon blood as my first wine. I contacted a wine supplies store here in israel for all the supplies. The issue is that I'm jewish and he said that the yeast nutrient, energizer and pectic enzyme are not certified kosher.
> I know I can use papaya peels instead of the enzyme, but I cant get that around here either (they dont grow them in israel). Is there anything else I can substitute? Also, anything I can substitute instead of the nutrient and energizer?
> And last question: if I don't substitute, how much will it affect the final product?



There is a Kosher yeast nutrient, Fermaid K (Kosher).
http://www.scottlab.com/product-105.aspx

I have not seen a Kosher energizer, which I believe has additional ingredients over a yeast nutrient, but every mfgr product is slightly different.

EDIT:
Without Pectic Enzyme, the wine may turn out to be cloudy (due to pectin haze). However, it may not be cloudy because Pectic Enzyme is produced by the fermentation process. The flavor will not be affected by the pectin haze.

EDIT 2:
Do a search on 'yeast nutrient substitute' and you will find some alternatives.

EDIT 3:
...and if you don't add energizer and/or yeast nutrient, you might have side effects: fermentation may not start, or be slow, or cause H2S in the final product. More risk for sure, but I do not know what the chances are for these to occur.


----------



## StevieP

Would Red Star Cote des Blancs be an acceptable substitute for EC-118 in dragon blood?


----------



## reefman

Look at post #2172.
It has been used by others.


----------



## Whitehrs

StevieP said:


> Would Red Star Cote des Blancs be an acceptable substitute for EC-118 in dragon blood?



That is what I used. I believe there is a flavor difference. Mine is turning out fine. I will use the exact listed yeast next time.


----------



## drainsurgeon

I'm 3 weeks into my first DB and close to bottling. I want to get another batch going but have a question. Many of my questions have been answered by reading this LENGTHY thread but I'm up to post # 2360 and haven't seen an answer to my question. (apologies if this has been asked already) I'm going to start a batch of Peach/Mango and am going with 10# of each fruit. I was a little surprised how much the water level raised with the addition of 6#. So adding 16#-20# of fruit like many are doing now, do you reduce the amount of water into the must to say, 5 or 5 1/2 gallons help with the volume of the extra fruit? I think my primary is 7 1/2 gallons and a little concerned about getting too high  (no pun intended) in the primary.


----------



## willie

drainsurgeon said:


> I'm 3 weeks into my first DB and close to bottling. I want to get another batch going but have a question. Many of my questions have been answered by reading this LENGTHY thread but I'm up to post # 2360 and haven't seen an answer to my question. (apologies if this has been asked already) I'm going to start a batch of Peach/Mango and am going with 10# of each fruit. I was a little surprised how much the water level raised with the addition of 6#. So adding 16#-20# of fruit like many are doing now, do you reduce the amount of water into the must to say, 5 or 5 1/2 gallons help with the volume of the extra fruit? I think my primary is 7 1/2 gallons and a little concerned about getting too high  (no pun intended) in the primary.



Been waiting for someone else to answer your question that maybe has made a Peach/Mango variant. I never have. If I was going to I wouldn't use more than 7 # of each fruit for a total of 14 # when making a 6 gal. batch and I think you would use 2 bags for that. The most fruit I have ever used in a 6 gal. batch is 15 # making Strawberry wine. When I make Triple Berry DB I have not used more than 9 # but prefer the Original 6 # that I usually make. 
What ever you end up doing keep us posted as to what you ended up doing and how it turned out. 

Will


----------



## drainsurgeon

willie said:


> Been waiting for someone else to answer your question that maybe has made a Peach/Mango variant. I never have. If I was going to I wouldn't use more than 7 # of each fruit for a total of 14 # when making a 6 gal. batch and I think you would use 2 bags for that. The most fruit I have ever used in a 6 gal. batch is 15 # making Strawberry wine. When I make Triple Berry DB I have not used more than 9 # but prefer the Original 6 # that I usually make.
> What ever you end up doing keep us posted as to what you ended up doing and how it turned out.
> 
> Will



I thought that I had read (on more than one post) that the light colored fruit like mango and peach required ALOT more fruit. Maybe 20# is a bit too much. Thanks for the reply Will. Anyone else made this combination and with how much fruit and what did you think of the results?


----------



## wineforfun

Never made that mix but did use a tropical mix, ie: mango, pineapple, strawberry and something else. It was based off of Dave's "Tropical Daze" recipe. I used 3lbs. for a 2 gal. batch. Flavor was just fine. Not overwhelming, but there. 

For your 6 gal. batch, try 6lbs. of peaches and 6 pounds of mangos. I think you will be happy with the result. Just make sure and squeeze the %&$#* out of the fruit bag every day.


----------



## JetJockey

To answer the other part of the question, regardless of the fruit amount, I add enough water to the primary to the 6 gal mark. Therefore, the amount of water varies based on the amount of fruit. Actually I use higher amounts of fruit, so I top up at least 6.5 gallons or more. Just so I can stir. This yeast doesn't foam much. I use an AIO wine pump so I'm not moving the primary or stirring it to get CO2 out before the secondary to cause a spill.


----------



## jumby

I make a peach, mango, pineapple variant all the time and use 9-10 lbs of fruit. It's by far the most popular fruit wine I make.


----------



## opus345

drainsurgeon said:


> I'm 3 weeks into my first DB and close to bottling. I want to get another batch going but have a question. Many of my questions have been answered by reading this LENGTHY thread but I'm up to post # 2360 and haven't seen an answer to my question. (apologies if this has been asked already) I'm going to start a batch of Peach/Mango and am going with 10# of each fruit. I was a little surprised how much the water level raised with the addition of 6#. So adding 16#-20# of fruit like many are doing now, do you reduce the amount of water into the must to say, 5 or 5 1/2 gallons help with the volume of the extra fruit? I think my primary is 7 1/2 gallons and a little concerned about getting too high  (no pun intended) in the primary.



One answer is to increase the size of your primary. You should be able to pick up an NSF Rubbermaid 20 Gal Brute at either Home Depot or Walmart. They are also available at Amazon. The cool part about getting a Brute is that you are now ready to start double and triple batches of DB.


----------



## drainsurgeon

opus345 said:


> One answer is to increase the size of your primary. You should be able to pick up an NSF Rubbermaid 20 Gal Brute at either Home Depot or Walmart. They are also available at Amazon. The cool part about getting a Brute is that you are now ready to start double and triple batches of DB.



Thanks Opus, I have given that idea some thought. Might have to make a trip to Home Depot tomorrow.


----------



## drainsurgeon

Bob, I'll top it to the 6 gallon mark and not worry about getting too close to the top then...see what happens.

Jumby, I had thought about adding some pineapple also. Did you also add some pineapple juice with the lemon? If so, how much of both?


----------



## Winenoob66

Why not just drop the lemon and use 2 48oz cans of pineapple juice instead?


----------



## jumby

drainsurgeon said:


> Bob, I'll top it to the 6 gallon mark and not worry about getting too close to the top then...see what happens.
> 
> Jumby, I had thought about adding some pineapple also. Did you also add some pineapple juice with the lemon? If so, how much of both?



I stuck with the lemon juice. The only variations I did from Dave's original recipe is I added more fruit and I use SuperKleer instead of Sparkolloid. I back sweeten with 1 cup of sugar per gallon..


----------



## bkisel

My first Brute bucket was not carried by Home Depot in-store. It had to be ordered online and then picked up at the store. Think it came in about 2-3 days - very fast.

My second Brute was ordered off Amazon and probaly arrived in 5-6 days.

I recommend the white buckets so that they can be marked on the outside and the same marks can bee seen through to the inside of the bucket.


----------



## NCWC

Gave my brew a taste today seamed flat the ph was 3.15 raised it to 2.90-293 range added a touch more tannin powder tasted better needs to rest now for a week or 3


----------



## drainsurgeon

Winenoob66 said:


> Why not just drop the lemon and use 2 48oz cans of pineapple juice instead?



I'm sure that I read (post 20,000 something ) that someone tried this and all they could taste was the pineapple. I want all the flavors to come through so I will probably reduce the lemon juice and maybe split the starter juice between lemon and lime. Maybe 16oz of each and will add the little bit of pineapple juice that is in the cans with the pineapple. If the taste test (after clearing) is missing something I can still add a concentrate or f-pac to bring that flavor through. My first batch of DB is ready to bottle and is already a great wine. Can't wait for it to age a bit. Thanks for the idea though!


----------



## Aleks

Hi everyone,been reading this thread for hours now and I`m almost ready to make dragon blood as my first wine. Thank you Dave.
This might be a stupid question, what is Realemon? Is it something you drink from the bottle or is it like freshly squeezed lemon?
I can`t find it in Norway so can I use fresh lemon juice? Same amount?


----------



## wineforfun

Aleks said:


> Hi everyone,been reading this thread for hours now and I`m almost ready to make dragon blood as my first wine. Thank you Dave.
> This might be a stupid question, what is Realemon? Is it something you drink from the bottle or is it like freshly squeezed lemon?
> I can`t find it in Norway so can I use fresh lemon juice? Same amount?



It is a brand of lemon juice here in the US. Here is a link. https://www.drpeppersnapplegroup.com/brands/realemon/ 
Just use whatever is the equivalent in Norway.


----------



## Aleks

The frozen mixed berry we have in store here is: 25% blackberry, 25% raspberry, 20% blueberry, 20% red currants and 10% black currants. any good?


----------



## Aleks

Thanks wineforfun


----------



## dcbrown73

Aleks said:


> The frozen mixed berry we have in store here is: 25% blackberry, 25% raspberry, 20% blueberry, 20% red currants and 10% black currants. any good?



Sounds like it would make a good wine. My frozen mixed fruit was strawberries, blackberries, blueberries, and raspberries. It made a great wine too, though I mostly taste the strawberries and blueberries.


----------



## chrisjw

drainsurgeon said:


> I'm sure that I read (post 20,000 something ) that someone tried this and all they could taste was the pineapple. I want all the flavors to come through so I will probably reduce the lemon juice and maybe split the starter juice between lemon and lime. Maybe 16oz of each and will add the little bit of pineapple juice that is in the cans with the pineapple. If the taste test (after clearing) is missing something I can still add a concentrate or f-pac to bring that flavor through. My first batch of DB is ready to bottle and is already a great wine. Can't wait for it to age a bit. Thanks for the idea though!



I used 64 oz of 100% pineapple juice (instead of lemon juice) and cannot taste pineapple at all. The most distinctive flavor is raspberry from the 6 lbs of frozen triple berry. I just sweetened this batch today so maybe it will change over time. My only worry is acidity level. It tastes fine but I need to test it.


----------



## drainsurgeon

chrisjw said:


> I used 64 oz of 100% pineapple juice (instead of lemon juice) and cannot taste pineapple at all. The most distinctive flavor is raspberry from the 6 lbs of frozen triple berry. I just sweetened this batch today so maybe it will change over time. My only worry is acidity level. It tastes fine but I need to test it.



I never thought to try the pineapple juice with the triple berry. Sounds . The batch I'm about to start is more of a tropical blend. I'm using peaches, mangoes, pineapple and throwing in 2 or 3 bananas. I'm thinking about mixing lemon, lime and pineapple juice in the starter. I'm surprised you can't taste pineapple with 64 oz. Evidently it cleared ok so I'm adding some in mine. I still don't understand the acidity thing and how it affects the finished product. We're all learning thanks to this great forum!


----------



## drainsurgeon

bkisel said:


> My first Brute bucket was not carried by Home Depot in-store. It had to be ordered online and then picked up at the store. Think it came in about 2-3 days - very fast.
> 
> My second Brute was ordered off Amazon and probaly arrived in 5-6 days.
> 
> I recommend the white buckets so that they can be marked on the outside and the same marks can bee seen through to the inside of the bucket.



Thanks bkisel, I just ordered from Amazon. They were about 1/2 the price of Home Depot.


----------



## drainsurgeon

Wow! I finally caught up to the current posts after reading the whole Dragon Blood Thread. I can't say enough about this forum and what I've learned in the last 3 weeks. I've got 5 pages of notes and 8 recipes from this thread alone! I'm bottling my first batch today and it is fantastic! I've been stealing glasses out of the carboy for about a week already. Can't wait to see how much better it will get in a couple of months. (like it will last that long) Ordered my 20 gal Brute today and will start my second DB this afternoon (Mango, Peach, Pineapple).

Once again, thank you all for being so patient with apprentice brewers and sharing the vast knowledge you all have acquired. 

Even though I've been brewing kits for several years (and not really understanding what all the packets were or what they did), this has been like a shot of adrenaline in a glass-what fun!!

My wife has been starting to use the "obsession" word lately.  Are there therapy classes available?


----------



## Johnd

drainsurgeon said:


> Are there therapy classes available?



The only therapy is to make more wine..............


----------



## bkisel

drainsurgeon said:


> Wow! I finally caught up to the current posts after reading the whole Dragon Blood Thread. I can't say enough about this forum and what I've learned in the last 3 weeks. I've got 5 pages of notes and 8 recipes from this thread alone! I'm bottling my first batch today and it is fantastic! I've been stealing glasses out of the carboy for about a week already. Can't wait to see how much better it will get in a couple of months. (like it will last that long) Ordered my 20 gal Brute today and will start my second DB this afternoon (Mango, Peach, Pineapple).
> 
> Once again, thank you all for being so patient with apprentice brewers and sharing the vast knowledge you all have acquired.
> 
> Even though I've been brewing kits for several years (and not really understanding what all the packets were or what they did), this has been like a shot of adrenaline in a glass-what fun!!
> 
> My wife has been starting to use the "obsession" word lately.  Are there therapy classes available?



If it were me and my wife the operative word coming from her would likely be... pitiful!


----------



## mennyg19

My wife tells me the same thing... And the worst part is, i cant even get her to taste some of my DB, she never drinks alcohol, and even if she would, she's nursing, and is afraid of getting our kid drunk!


----------



## dallase

New small batch, some new labels.. Turned out pretty good. I have 1 bottle left of my March batch, so going to compare them soon. 1st batch straight, 2nd batch adds some banana/raisen/med-oak


----------



## drainsurgeon

dallase said:


> New small batch, some new labels.. Turned out pretty good. I have 1 bottle left of my March batch, so going to compare them soon. 1st batch straight, 2nd batch adds some banana/raisen/med-oak



Nice looking labels! (caps too)


----------



## Aleks

I cant find the yeast energizer, am I in big trouble without it?


----------



## mennyg19

Aleks said:


> I cant find the yeast energizer, am I in big trouble without it?




Hi Aleks, I'm on my first batch of DB, and I didn't either use energizer. It doesn't seem to be making a difference yet. I started at an SG of 1.086 and am down to 1.032 5 days later.
I've read places (some more experienced winemakers on the forum can correct me if I'm wrong) that lemon juice can act as an energizer, and the recipe calls for that, so you (and I) are in good luck...
Good luck and let us know how yours goes!


----------



## Winenoob66

Lemon adds the acidity. But you will more than likely be fine without the energizer. Just sometimes lemon juice can be a pain to ferment.


----------



## Aleks

Thanks man, you put my mind at ease, I pitched my yeast in now


----------



## NCWC

1st Bottle of Blood ,color very good. Added some tartaric acid to it, needed more "pucker" Not too much nose but nice taste


----------



## opus345

From Dragon's Blood #1 Bottled on 6/13. Only 6 bottles left.

Was supposed to bottle #2 this afternoon, but birthday party for 4 year old grandson got in the way.

#3 (Blue Blood) is in secondary.

Planning #4 as a double batch in the new Brute.

So much Dragon's Blood to be made, so little time.

Opus


----------



## JetJockey

You have to be careful, those 4-year olds really hurt the reserves! They drink this stuff like Kool-aid! LOL


----------



## Noobberry

Forgive me if my question is redundant. I can't search this thread from my phone:
What temp am I looking for in my measurements?


----------



## mennyg19

Noobberry said:


> Forgive me if my question is redundant. I can't search this thread from my phone:
> 
> What temp am I looking for in my measurements?




Hi Noobbery, no questions are redundant. 
Dave says in his first post:
"Keep temp in 68F-80F range. A higher temp will result in a faster fermentation, and a sharper tasting, more colorful wine. A lower temp will produce a paler blush with more fruity aroma and a smoother taste."


----------



## Noobberry

mennyg19 said:


> Dave says in his first post:
> "Keep temp in 68F-80F range. A higher temp will result in a faster fermentation, and a sharper tasting, more colorful wine. A lower temp will produce a paler blush with more fruity aroma and a smoother taste."




Hi Menny, 
Thanks for that! I have a line on some crab apples so I think I'm going to give this one a go with those. Don't have a press so cores and stems out and away I go! Anyone else have some suggestions for apples before I get started?


----------



## Aleks

My SG is way below 1000 now but there is a lot of activity. I know to wait until its stabilized but why is my batch look like its boiling? I made a #2 today with 60% blueberry to have something else going


----------



## willie

Aleks said:


> My SG is way below 1000 now but there is a lot of activity. I know to wait until its stabilized but why is my batch look like its boiling? I made a #2 today with 60% blueberry to have something else going



What was your actual SG reading today? And remember you want to see a reading of .993 - .990 for 3 days in a row and by that time you should not see much or no activity at all. 

Will


----------



## Aleks

My SG was 0991, its at 0990 today and it calmed down a bit but its fizzing still.


----------



## willie

Aleks said:


> My SG was 0991, its at 0990 today and it calmed down a bit but its fizzing still.



Ok great. You should be fine. Just follow, Dave's process as shown on the first page and you should be good to go. I just made a couple of copies from Dave's pdf. I you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask. There is some very knowledgeable folks on here. 

Will


----------



## wineforfun

opus345 said:


> From Dragon's Blood #1 Bottled on 6/13. Only 6 bottles left.
> 
> Was supposed to bottle #2 this afternoon, but birthday party for 4 year old grandson got in the way.
> 
> #3 (Blue Blood) is in secondary.
> 
> Planning #4 as a double batch in the new Brute.
> 
> So much Dragon's Blood to be made, so little time.
> 
> Opus



I see the big N on the grill. Do you live in Nebraska?


----------



## jumby

30 bottles of Dave's original recipe bottled, label and in the cellar.


----------



## opus345

wineforfun said:


> I see the big N on the grill. Do you live in Nebraska?



Yes, been here all my life. West side of Omaha.

Papillion? Wife grew up there. She went to Papillion High School.


----------



## wineforfun

opus345 said:


> Yes, been here all my life. West side of Omaha.
> 
> Papillion? Wife grew up there. She went to Papillion High School.



Really, same here. I attended wayyyyyy before there were two high schools. Small world, I have been in Papillion all my life.


----------



## jburtner

Have ingredients for two batches of this. Started one last Friday evening (Tuesday morning now). The must looks great and the fruit bag has also reduced down nicely. I only used 30oz of lemon juice and probably 8 lbs of fruit. 20C sugar for SG of 1.080. Tannin, nutrient, energizer additives as per recipe.

I originally pitched Red Star Cotes des blancs Saturday afternoon (waited 24h) and nothing still by this morning so I sprinkled EC1118. 

Maybe the 1/4tsp KMeta caused the Cotes des blancs to not start that quickly. All other kits so far have started within 12h using EC1118.

Was hoping to rack to secondary by this Sat so couldn't wait any longer to see if it eventually kicked in and I sprinkled the EC1118.

Cheers!
-jonathan


----------



## wineforfun

jburtner said:


> Have ingredients for two batches of this. Started one last Friday evening (Tuesday morning now). The must looks great and the fruit bag has also reduced down nicely. I only used 30oz of lemon juice and probably 8 lbs of fruit. 20C sugar for SG of 1.080. Tannin, nutrient, energizer additives as per recipe.
> 
> I originally pitched Red Star Cotes des blancs Saturday afternoon (waited 24h) and nothing still by this morning so I sprinkled EC1118.
> 
> Maybe the 1/4tsp KMeta caused the Cotes des blancs to not start that quickly. All other kits so far have started within 12h using EC1118.
> 
> Was hoping to rack to secondary by this Sat so couldn't wait any longer to see if it eventually kicked in and I sprinkled the EC1118.
> 
> Cheers!
> -jonathan



Couple of things. I think you jumped the gun by adding more yeast but it will definitely take off now.
Also, you don't need to add kmeta this early in the process. Next time wait until you have racked out of primary before adding.


----------



## jburtner

Some of the berries were not store bought so used kmeta to sterilize/kill any wild yeasts that may have been active.

Isn't it a good idea to add kmeta to PRI and let sit for a day before pitching yeast when using any fresh/frozen grapes/fruit?

Thx!
-jb


----------



## wineforfun

jburtner said:


> Some of the berries were not store bought so used kmeta to sterilize/kill any wild yeasts that may have been active.
> -jb



I gotcha, that makes sense then. I thought you used frozen store bought.


----------



## JetJockey

I usually use kmeta on fresh fruit like you would sanitize equipment. Spray it on, mix it around let it sit and rinse. All before primary and then I don't need to add kmeta to the must. I only add kmeta in secondary.


----------



## Rosa321

JetJockey said:


> I usually use kmeta on fresh fruit like you would sanitize equipment. Spray it on, mix it around let it sit and rinse. All before primary and then I don't need to add kmeta to the must. I only add kmeta in secondary.



Interesting approach! I pick my own fruit and I usually add the 1/4tsp of Kmeta to sterilize before beginning primary.

I might give this a try though...especially on fresh/not frozen fruit...


----------



## jburtner

I sprinkled that EC1118 at like 7a and by 6p was well underway and quite foamy next am.

Cheers!
-jb


----------



## JetJockey

Rosa321 said:


> I might give this a try though...especially on fresh/not frozen fruit...



I believe that wild yeasts are not a problem with frozen fruits because the prolonged freezing and processing eliminates the wild yeasts' viability.


----------



## Rosa321

JetJockey said:


> I believe that wild yeasts are not a problem with frozen fruits because the prolonged freezing and processing eliminates the wild yeasts' viability.



Huh  Well I didn't know that, either!! 

I love to use the free fruit I have on my property (blackberries, blueberries, apples) but I always freeze it because even in great years I simply can't pick fast enough to use them before they would go bad. I've always used the 1/4tsp of Kmeta as a precaution, but maybe I don't have to...


----------



## barbl72

Entered my original Dragon's Blood wine in our local county fair and won FIRST PLACE! WHOOP! WHOOP!


----------



## JetJockey

My last batch of blueberry DB, was fresh berries, but since I picked in small batches during the season, I had to freeze them for the 9# of berries needed for 6 gal. I did not use kmeta and it was fine. I did use kmeta according to the instructions. Also, freezing helps break down the cell walls and allows the yeast to break the berries down faster and more completely to let all the flavor out. IMHO


----------



## JetJockey

Congrats Barb!! Makes you want to make more.


----------



## jburtner

I racked that last batch to carboy and started a second batch with all fresh fruit (frozen). I added the 1/4tsp kmeta in any case to clean the fruit/must and I'm letting it sit for a couple days as I add sugar and as the SG settles. I'll see if that yeast works this time since I can let it sit longer.

Recipe is stock except for -
10# Farmers market blackberries / partially dehydrated
6# Raspberries
45oz Lemon juice
Sugar to 1.090 SG

Hope to report back with good news re the yeast.

This is going to split these two batches between my gf's bro and us.

Cheers!
-jb


----------



## jumby

Just started a mango, pineapple blend here with 15 pounds of fruit.


----------



## drainsurgeon

jumby said:


> Just started a mango, pineapple blend here with 15 pounds of fruit.



Make sure to add extra Pectin. I started a 6 gal batch of Pineapple, Mango, Peach, Banana about a month ago. I started with 6 tsp Pectin Enzyme and added 3 more after clearing for 2 weeks with Superkleer. There was so much haze you couldn't see through it at all. About 6 days after adding the extra Pectin it finally started to clear. Good luck with your batch!


----------



## willie

barbl72 said:


> Entered my original Dragon's Blood wine in our local county fair and won FIRST PLACE! WHOOP! WHOOP!



Super it is a wonderful wine. Congrats. I hope Danger Dave will read this if he hasn't already. 

Will


----------



## bkisel

barbl72 said:


> Entered my original Dragon's Blood wine in our local county fair and won FIRST PLACE! WHOOP! WHOOP!



That's great!


----------



## jumby

drainsurgeon said:


> Make sure to add extra Pectin. I started a 6 gal batch of Pineapple, Mango, Peach, Banana about a month ago. I started with 6 tsp Pectin Enzyme and added 3 more after clearing for 2 weeks with Superkleer. There was so much haze you couldn't see through it at all. About 6 days after adding the extra Pectin it finally started to clear. Good luck with your batch!



I never have a problem with any of my wine clearing. I use SuperKleer and it usually clears in 24-48 hours. Here's a mango batch I started clearing less then 24 hours ago.


----------



## Rosa321

Speaking of clearing...

I decided to clean out my freezer to make room for this year's fruit crop, so I threw ALL the blueberries into a batch of dragon's blood. 
Probably not a good idea as I have a REALLY dark wine now. I'm not sure how to tell when it's clear. 
I'm trying to shine a flashlight through but even that is difficult.
Thoughts?


----------



## bkisel

What I do with red wine is watch the build up of sediment at the bottom of the carboy. At some point it appears to stop which is time to rack and look for more sediment to fall out. Generally what falls out next if anything is just a "dusting". Rack again before bottling. Steal some wine into a glass and check for clarity. 

What I need to watch for in my DB and DB variations is a sediment that when shook looks like worms floating in the bottle. I think they're just protein strands or something like that which doesn't hurt the wine in taste... just looks.


----------



## MRITRAVIS

Wanted to say Thanks to DangerDave for the recipe and guidance in this post. I have been lurking for some time and I decided to do a DB. I bottled it tonight. I am very pleased with it. It took 12 days from start to finish. The SG was 1.082 and finished out at .992 in 7 days. It came out to 11.81% abv. I have never had anything go this fast. It is beautiful. I got 26 Bottles out of it. It actually tastes good at bottling. I can't wait to try it with a little aging. Thanks to everyone for the information in this thread. The picture doesn't do it justice! 
Thanks,
Travis


----------



## drainsurgeon

jumby said:


> I never have a problem with any of my wine clearing. I use SuperKleer and it usually clears in 24-48 hours. Here's a mango batch I started clearing less then 24 hours ago.



Nice! Wish mine would clear that fast. Did you make yours from fruit or juice? I make mine with real fruit and it wasn't clearing so the extra pectin helped. 

Nice collection of wine in the background. Did you put those out just for the photo? Just wondering because I thought you were supposed to keep the cork wet by storing bottles horizontal. I've heard some people seal their cork tops with wax.


----------



## Flofern

I use very little zip ties.


----------



## Flofern

I use tiny zip ties to close my fruit bags. They stay very good and tight. Be careful removing and don't poke a hole in your fruit bag.


----------



## jumby

drainsurgeon said:


> Nice! Wish mine would clear that fast. Did you make yours from fruit or juice? I make mine with real fruit and it wasn't clearing so the extra pectin helped.
> 
> Nice collection of wine in the background. Did you put those out just for the photo? Just wondering because I thought you were supposed to keep the cork wet by storing bottles horizontal. I've heard some people seal their cork tops with wax.



I use frozen fruit for all my batches. Like I said I've made 100's of bottles of DB and never had a problem with them clearing. I hope I don't jinx myself!

As for the bottles no I didn't put them out for the picture. I use Nomacorc corks so there's no need to store the bottles on their side. I have about a 1,000 bottles aging and they are all standing up on shelves or in cases.


----------



## drainsurgeon

1000 bottles aging. Wow! I've got about 275 in cold storage right now and I thought that was a lot! I'll have to look into the Nomacorc corks. I'm assuming that they cost a little more than the 19 cent #9 corks I'm using now. What size do you use and where did you buy them?


----------



## jumby

drainsurgeon said:


> 1000 bottles aging. Wow! I've got about 275 in cold storage right now and I thought that was a lot! I'll have to look into the Nomacorc corks. I'm assuming that they cost a little more than the 19 cent #9 corks I'm using now. What size do you use and where did you buy them?



I use 9 x 1 1/2 and buy them from Label Peelers... they cost $21.38 for a 100 count bag.


----------



## jumby

drainsurgeon said:


> 1000 bottles aging. Wow! I've got about 275 in cold storage right now and I thought that was a lot! I'll have to look into the Nomacorc corks. I'm assuming that they cost a little more than the 19 cent #9 corks I'm using now. What size do you use and where did you buy them?



I won't tell ya how many gallons of limencello I have aging...


----------



## Noobberry

Hmmmmmm. ...I was thinking, and I may be way out in left field here buuuut:
What if I were to take this recipe and try a cider variation? I'm new at this whole thing but I was thinking, if I used apples, racked only once and then added more sugar and bottles it like beer, it should fizz right? Or wrong?


----------



## Whitehrs

It may also be bombs.. But t then it could be awesome.


----------



## Rosa321

Noobberry said:


> Hmmmmmm. ...I was thinking, and I may be way out in left field here buuuut:
> What if I were to take this recipe and try a cider variation? I'm new at this whole thing but I was thinking, if I used apples, racked only once and then added more sugar and bottles it like beer, it should fizz right? Or wrong?



I've made hard cider before. Slightly different recipe, and I used a different yeast, but it came out great. You just have to be careful and measure the sugar very carefully or your bottles will explode!


----------



## drainsurgeon

jumby said:


> I won't tell ya how many gallons of limencello I have aging...



You Dog! Looks good and I love those bottles. Where did you get them?


----------



## jumby

drainsurgeon said:


> You Dog! Looks good and I love those bottles. Where did you get them?



I picked them up on eBay.


----------



## Whitehrs

drainsurgeon said:


> You Dog! Looks good and I love those bottles. Where did you get them?




I picked up some of those fliptop bottles at TJ MAXX on clearence.. were like 1.99 each. I bought them all. I have not produced a nice enough looking wine that I felt should go in them yet.


----------



## Double Daylo

drainsurgeon said:


> 1000 bottles aging. Wow! I've got about 275 in cold storage right now and I thought that was a lot! I'll have to look into the Nomacorc corks. I'm assuming that they cost a little more than the 19 cent #9 corks I'm using now. What size do you use and where did you buy them?



Look into lafitte. Alot of people on this board purchase corks from them. Very high quality corks for the same price as competitors. I pay 140 for 1000 count then 50 to ship them. If you like for a one time fee of $100 you can have custom die made so your local or wine name or what ever you want can be printed on every cork. Once the die is made it doesn't cost you any more to run corks with your logo on them. I do it and the results are fantastic. Check them out. We all buy the agglo 1+1 corks. You won't be dissapointed. I was buying cheapo corks from amazon for 16 cents each. These cost 19 cents each and are ten times higher quality and they have my logo and winery name on them!

http://www.lafitte-usa.com/


----------



## Noobberry

Rosa321 said:


> I've made hard cider before. Slightly different recipe, and I used a different yeast, but it came out great. You just have to be careful and measure the sugar very carefully or your bottles will explode!



So to be clear, use a proper cider recipe? Or, just use the apples for this recipes as intended.


----------



## Rosa321

If you're starting with cider, I would recommend a proper cider recipe. I used one posted in the recipe forum. 
I remember it being a little different, not having acid/lemon juice, and using another yeast.


If you're using just apple juice, then I don't see why you couldn't give this recipe a shot and see what happens


----------



## jburtner

Double Daylo said:


> Look into lafitte. Alot of people on this board purchase corks from them. Very high quality corks for the same price as competitors. I pay 140 for 1000 count then 50 to ship them. If you like for a one time fee of $100 you can have custom die made so your local or wine name or what ever you want can be printed on every cork. Once the die is made it doesn't cost you any more to run corks with your logo on them. I do it and the results are fantastic. Check them out. We all buy the agglo 1+1 corks. You won't be dissapointed. I was buying cheapo corks from amazon for 16 cents each. These cost 19 cents each and are ten times higher quality and they have my logo and winery name on them!
> 
> http://www.lafitte-usa.com/



This is most excellent thank you! I have been looking for branded corks and aluminum capsules. 

Cheers,
Johann


----------



## Noobberry

SG question:
My batch currently sits well below the .999 mark....how do I tell it's stabilized if I have no measuring "stick" left to read??


----------



## jumby

Noobberry said:


> SG question:
> My batch currently sits well below the .999 mark....how do I tell it's stabilized if I have no measuring "stick" left to read??



Once mine hits .994 and stays there for a couple of days I stabilize it. That's usually about 7 days out from pitching the yeast.


----------



## AkTom

I'll apologize up front. I haven't read all
The posts... 
Do you squeeze the bag every time you stir?
I'm down to 1.024 and love the smell. 
Thanks for a great recipe. I hope my wife won't like it. I won't have any trouble drinking it myself.
One more question. How important is taking the temp?


----------



## mennyg19

AkTom said:


> I'll apologize up front. I haven't read all
> The posts...
> Do you squeeze the bag every time you stir?
> I'm down to 1.024 and love the smell.
> Thanks for a great recipe. I hope my wife won't like it. I won't have any trouble drinking it myself.
> One more question. How important is taking the temp?




I squeezed every time. I dont think its a big deal.
About the temp, it depends what the temp is around the must. Fermenting can add a few degrees, but if the overall temp is cool around and your in a safe fermenting zone the first time you take the temp, (say in the low 70s) then you can get away without checking the temp every time.
However, do keep in mind that the hydrometer reading depends on the temp so your readings might be off...


----------



## JetJockey

To add to the temperature response, every hydrometer has a calibration temperature. By taking the temperature at the time of reading the SG, you can correct the SG reading based on your specific hydrometer.


----------



## winehomie

O yes this will be my next wine, it sounds amazing!!


----------



## Noobberry

As I stand here and degas this batch I get the distinct impression that I'll be here all night... I am also ponderin my next purchase ..a drill attachment


----------



## drainsurgeon

Noobberry said:


> As I stand here and degas this batch I get the distinct impression that I'll be here all night... I am also ponderin my next purchase ..a drill attachment ��



LOL, I remember my first DB. It seemed to take f-o-r-e-v-e-r to degas. And that was with a whip and a drill! Remember that degassing is easier with warmer must temps. Mid 70s or better is best.


----------



## drainsurgeon

jumby said:


> Once mine hits .994 and stays there for a couple of days I stabilize it. That's usually about 7 days out from pitching the yeast.



I think that Nooberry meant that the hydrometer is sinking past any reading marks. My hydrometer goes down to .982 which is slightly below any I have fermented. I've had 3 batches go below .990 this summer!


----------



## AkTom

mennyg19 said:


> I squeezed every time. I dont think its a big deal.
> About the temp, it depends what the temp is around the must. Fermenting can add a few degrees, but if the overall temp is cool around and your in a safe fermenting zone the first time you take the temp, (say in the low 70s) then you can get away without checking the temp every time.
> However, do keep in mind that the hydrometer reading depends on the temp so your readings might be off...



Thanks. Air temp in the basement is about 75 or so. I'll squeeze next time.


----------



## Noobberry

drainsurgeon said:


> I think that Nooberry meant that the hydrometer is sinking past any reading marks. My hydrometer goes down to .982 which is slightly below any I have fermented. I've had 3 batches go below .990 this summer!



That is what has happened. I was a little off on my measurements (it started with me being Canadian lol gallons on recipe, litres on primary) anyways I ended up with too much water-don't ask- so I had to add another 4 cups of sugar to get the sg right.

I have to say I am learning lots every day with this batch. As long as it's boozy and tasty I'll call it a success!


----------



## drainsurgeon

Noobberry said:


> That is what has happened. I was a little off on my measurements (it started with me being Canadian lol gallons on recipe, litres on primary) anyways I ended up with too much water-don't ask- so I had to add another 4 cups of sugar to get the sg right.
> 
> I have to say I am learning lots every day with this batch. As long as it's boozy and tasty I'll call it a success!



Don't be in a rush to be "too boozy". I've learned the hard way that most of these fruit wines are better in the 10%-12% range. If you're shooting for an 18% dessert port that's one thing. Fruit wines develop an after bite if you run the alcohol up too high. I had one that came in at 14 1/2% and tried everything to get it to taste right. Adjusted the pH, added more sugar, added concentrate. Nothing helped, until...I found a similar juice, did the math and brought the ABV down to 12%. That did the trick. More is not always better. Happy brewing Noobberry, sounds like you're getting it figured out.


----------



## Noobberry

Thanks drain surgeon! 

To jump back to degassing quick, I added the potassium (s) last night and stirred until my arms hurt. I think there is some CO2 left though and I haven't added the clearing agent yet. If I stir for awhile daily for few days and then add spakloid, is that okay? I know the name of the game for this recipe is quick but I literally cannot stir all night.....


----------



## drainsurgeon

Noobberry said:


> Thanks drain surgeon!
> 
> To jump back to degassing quick, I added the potassium (s) last night and stirred until my arms hurt. I think there is some CO2 left though and I haven't added the clearing agent yet. If I stir for awhile daily for few days and then add spakloid, is that okay? I know the name of the game for this recipe is quick but I literally cannot stir all night.....



Get yourself a whip from the wine shop. It's a Stainless shaft with a couple of hinged plastic blades. Attach to a drill and whip away. 5-10 min is usually sufficient. You can also make one from a plastic coat hanger. Cut a section off that has an L shape, attach to drill and whip away!

Remember a warmer must is easier to de-gass. (75+)

Or you could just keep de-gassing with a spoon and get a work out at the same time.  (saves a trip to the gym)


----------



## Arne

drainsurgeon said:


> Get yourself a whip from the wine shop. It's a Stainless shaft with a couple of hinged plastic blades. Attach to a drill and whip away. 5-10 min is usually sufficient. You can also make one from a plastic coat hanger. Cut a section off that has an L shape, attach to drill and whip away!
> 
> Remember a warmer must is easier to de-gass. (75+)
> 
> Or you could just keep de-gassing with a spoon and get a work out at the same time.  (saves a trip to the gym)



Or give it a shot of k-meta, stick it on the shelf for a couple of months and it will degas on its own.  Keep it under airlock. Arne.


----------



## drainsurgeon

Arne said:


> Or give it a shot of k-meta, stick it on the shelf for a couple of months and it will degas on its own.  Keep it under airlock. Arne.



Arne, you're just being lazy!


----------



## Arne

drainsurgeon said:


> Arne, you're just being lazy!



LOL, want to know the easy way to do it?? Ask the lazy guy. And proud of it. Arne.


----------



## Johnd

Arne said:


> LOL, want to know the easy way to do it?? Ask the lazy guy. And proud of it. Arne.



Perhaps, but a good dose of properly timed laziness is quite beneficial to winemaking.


----------



## hounddawg

that has got to be the very reason i look up Arne's posts and ask Arne questions, 
after all aint the very reason a person drinks wine is to sit back an relax, which in blunt English is to kick back an enjoy a lazy after noon,
Dawg






Arne said:


> LOL, want to know the easy way to do it?? Ask the lazy guy. And proud of it. Arne.


----------



## winehomie

This is the first wine going into my new (to me) 5 gallon carboys, just waiting for the tannin to be delivered, sometimes it's hard brewing using mail order, but closest brew shop is a 4 hr round trip so such is my burden lol


----------



## hounddawg

i use a few recipes passed down from the early 1800's tannings give it whats called mouth feel and finish, i rarely use tannins myself, if you can find any crab apples i use them in most every wine i make. the more you use the more tart the finish, what i'm getting at is other natural things can take the place of tannings, i now have 4 big bushes of sergeants yellow crab apples, most crab apples grow on trees so at hard to get to but sergeants both red or yeller are a bush verity of crab apples so around 6 to 7 feet is bout it on height. and like most bush's grow very aggressively so once started they do really well and unlike other fruits they tend to stay on the bush all winter so hungry deer can get to them, or me,, lol ,, just a thought but most crab apples are considered weeds, so if you can find any growing along the railway tracts you can dig up several stalks, they grow in bunches of what looks like a bunch of switches growing together, ya can dig up several then plant one here and one there and you'll end up with bushs growing here an there, mine i grow in my yard same goes with my elderberries
Dawg 







winehomie said:


> This is the first wine going into my new (to me) 5 gallon carboys, just waiting for the tannin to be delivered, sometimes it's hard brewing using mail order, but closest brew shop is a 4 hr round trip so such is my burden lol


----------



## reefman

Just an observation!
I had a batch of Dragons Blood and a batch of Skeeter pee from last summer (2015) when I moved.
Both were exposed to extreme temperatures during the move. The Skeeter Pee has an off taste and the Dragons Blood was bland and weak in flavor.
Rather than throwing them both out. I blended them together and ended up with a pretty good 12 gallons of wine.
Even my wife is drinking it.
SO the moral is, don't throw it out before you try some tweaking.


----------



## Noobberry

welp this was the best advice I have ever been given! 5 cent hanger cut up and.....wow! there was a lot of gas left in that wine! and still more (the battery died)


----------



## Noobberry

this is bananas! and I was doing this by hand?? annnnnd I broke the Dewalt.


----------



## AkTom

Lesson learned. Don't buy DeWalt battery tools. :-/. DAMHIKT


----------



## AkTom

I'm waiting on my sorbate I just ordered. Can hardly wait. Smells great.


----------



## wineinmd

I love my Dewalt tools. I have the 18v set. I've been using them hard for years. Perhaps the smaller ones aren't made for long stretches of operation. I give mine a break every minute or so.


----------



## winehomie

wineinmd said:


> I love my Dewalt tools. I have the 18v set. I've been using them hard for years. Perhaps the smaller ones aren't made for long stretches of operation. I give mine a break every minute or so.



PORTER CABLE FTW lol I love my PC cordless tools never a problem Dewalt has great tools but I have heard a lot of bad reviews on the cordless stuff.::


----------



## drainsurgeon

winehomie said:


> PORTER CABLE FTW lol I love my PC cordless tools never a problem Dewalt has great tools but I have heard a lot of bad reviews on the cordless stuff.::



I've had my Dewalt 18V set for over 15 years now. Still on my second set of batteries too. I was a plumbing contractor and used these tools every day without a problem. I can still de-gass 2 wines back to back with one charge. Probably close to 20 min whipping. No complaints here!


----------



## winehomie

drainsurgeon said:


> I've had my Dewalt 18V set for over 15 years now. Still on my second set of batteries too. I was a plumbing contractor and used these tools every day without a problem. I can still de-gass 2 wines back to back with one charge. Probably close to 20 min whipping. No complaints here!



LET THE CORDLESS DRILL WARS BEGINE lmbo I guess you get good and bad with any brand PC is just my personal preference. I'm sure there are SOME good Dewalts out there ..............maybe LOL


----------



## Noobberry

Okay. Spakloid went in last Saturday. I have been noticing sediment similar to normal sediment at the bottom of the carboy. However, it runs up the curvy sides a little and some is further up stuck on the sides. Never used spakloid before. Will all that sediment stay put while I'm bottling (was hoping of do that tomorrow) or will it mix in my wine and make it cloudy?
Should I wait longer to bottle?


----------



## Mountainjack

Noobberry said:


> Okay. Spakloid went in last Saturday. I have been noticing sediment similar to normal sediment at the bottom of the carboy. However, it runs up the curvy sides a little and some is further up stuck on the sides. Never used spakloid before. Will all that sediment stay put while I'm bottling (was hoping of do that tomorrow) or will it mix in my wine and make it cloudy?
> Should I wait longer to bottle?



Just tap the side of your carboy several times close to the ridges and you will notice all that sediment that is hanging on the ridges start heading to the bottom. I would wait at least a day to give it time to settle before bottling.


----------



## JetJockey

I've used sparkled and others. The sediment has stuck on the sides, especially around the ridges of the glass carboy. You didn't say what kind of wine, as some produces more sediment than others. If it were me, I'd rack and let it settle again. Most likely you will get some sediment to mix back in when bottling/racking as the level drops and cleans the sides. After another racking, you may wish to filter too to get that fine polished clear look. I wouldn't filter now if there is that sediment still in the wine as it may clog your filters depending on what you filter with. Just my $0.02


----------



## Pd2718

*Taste*

After 3 months in the bottle, my dragon blood taste like a combination of mad dog 20/20 and raspberry cough syrup.

Suggestions?


----------



## AkTom

When back sweeting, do you add the sugar straight into the carboy, and mix with a degassing tool? Sorry for the rookie question. 
Tom


----------



## jumby

AkTom said:


> When back sweeting, do you add the sugar straight into the carboy, and mix with a degassing tool? Sorry for the rookie question.
> Tom



That's what I do. I add the sugar to the carboy before I start racking then give it a good stirring.


----------



## AkTom

Thanks. That's what I did. I wasn't sure the sugar would dissolve. It did
nicely. Thanks again.
Tom


----------



## wineforfun

Noobberry said:


> Okay. Spakloid went in last Saturday. I have been noticing sediment similar to normal sediment at the bottom of the carboy. However, it runs up the curvy sides a little and some is further up stuck on the sides. Never used spakloid before. Will all that sediment stay put while I'm bottling (was hoping of do that tomorrow) or will it mix in my wine and make it cloudy?
> Should I wait longer to bottle?



Another trick is to spin your carboy left and right. That will help some of it drop. 

In the future I would recommend using SuperKleer. It packs the less must better/tighter. I used Sparklloid in the beginning but got tired of dealing with what you are. Plus, I would bottle when it was crystal clear and then a few months in the bottle, these "whispies" would appear.


----------



## wineforfun

Pd2718 said:


> After 3 months in the bottle, my dragon blood taste like a combination of mad dog 20/20 and raspberry cough syrup.
> 
> Suggestions?



Did you follow the recipe as written?

What did you add for acid, ie: lemon juice, acid blend, etc. And how much?


----------



## Stevelaz

Im getting ready to make a 3 gallon batch to give this a try. Without going through hundreds of threads, is the revised (current) recipe on page one of this thread? Thanks


----------



## willie

Stevelaz said:


> Im getting ready to make a 3 gallon batch to give this a try. Without going through hundreds of threads, is the revised (current) recipe on page one of this thread? Thanks



Danger Dave's recipe on the first page is what you want to use. As for a revision recipe I don't believe there is one. A change that I remember is maybe use Super Kleer instead of Spakloid as a clearing agent. It is a wonderful recipe and if you follow it you should be very impressed. The wine makes fast to drink fast as it will come to full flavor in about 3 months or so. And as you get time read the entire thread and you can really learn so much about what you can do with Dave's recipe. Good luck and remember there are many of us that are here to help if needed. 

Will


----------



## Stevelaz

Ok. Thanks! The reason i asked is i read somewhere that he changed the original recipe cutting the lemon juice in half to one bottle. I did make it exactly as on page one. the only thing i had to adjust was the sugar. After sitting overnight the sg was only at about 1.070. I added more sugar to get it to 1.075, 76. Thanks again. Will be pitching the yeast soon! 

PS: I was also looking at the Skeeters Pee. That looks good too!! lol. I have an
Amarone kit i started at a few days ago and the Dragons blood starting today!


----------



## wineforfun

That is true but if I recall, the original called for 96oz. I believe the page 1 recipe is the "changed" one.


----------



## Pd2718

Followed recipe exactly. Used lemon juice.
Just tastes like raspberry mad dog, Boone's farm, or cough syrup.


----------



## wineforfun

Pd2718 said:


> Followed recipe exactly. Used lemon juice.
> Just tastes like raspberry mad dog, Boone's farm, or cough syrup.



Not sure what to make of that. I have made quite a bit of this and always turned out well, for what it is.

You do know this is not a dry red wine or anything of the like? It is more what I like to call a "wine cooler on steroids".


----------



## willie

wineforfun said:


> That is true but if I recall, the original called for 96oz. I believe the page 1 recipe is the "changed" one.



I forgot DJ about the recipe using 960z of lemon juice. I lost my original copy a couple of years ago in a spill on my bench so my earliest copy is the recipe that's on the first page now. But I have always used 32-40+oz of lemon or a combination of lemon and lime juice. 

Will


----------



## drainsurgeon

I made the original recipe back in June and made another batch in August. The second batch had double the triple berry fruit (12#) and I added raisins and oak while it aged for a couple of months. It turned out much better IMHO! I also cut the lemon back to 32 oz instead of 48.


----------



## tjgaul

Hello all, 

This is my first time posting. I just got started making wine this summer and have a couple kits (whites) completed, 3 more kits (reds) bulk aging and some homemade fruit wines aging as well. I'm planning to make my first batch of Dragon's Blood this weekend and am shooting for a half batch. I have everything on hand except for the yeast energizer. How important is this ingredient and what are the probable consequences of omitting it?


----------



## wineforfun

willie said:


> I forgot DJ about the recipe using 960z of lemon juice. I lost my original copy a couple of years ago in a spill on my bench so my earliest copy is the recipe that's on the first page now. But I have always used 32-40+oz of lemon or a combination of lemon and lime juice.
> 
> Will



Yep, most of us, and I believe Dave included, found that was wayyyyy too much lemon so he adjusted the recipe accordingly. I believe he still calls for 1lb. of fruit per gal. but most of us up that to 1 1/2 - 2lbs. per gal.


----------



## mennyg19

tjgaul said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 
> 
> This is my first time posting. I just got started making wine this summer and have a couple kits (whites) completed, 3 more kits (reds) bulk aging and some homemade fruit wines aging as well. I'm planning to make my first batch of Dragon's Blood this weekend and am shooting for a half batch. I have everything on hand except for the yeast energizer. How important is this ingredient and what are the probable consequences of omitting it?




I made mine without energizer. I dont rate my own wines, but the feedback is that its amazing... so i guess omitting it didnt hurt.


----------



## Johnd

tjgaul said:


> Hello all,
> 
> This is my first time posting. I just got started making wine this summer and have a couple kits (whites) completed, 3 more kits (reds) bulk aging and some homemade fruit wines aging as well. I'm planning to make my first batch of Dragon's Blood this weekend and am shooting for a half batch. I have everything on hand except for the yeast energizer. How important is this ingredient and what are the probable consequences of omitting it?



You have the nutrients but not the energizer?


----------



## Whitehrs

Johnd said:


> You have the nutrients but not the energizer?



The product I have is both Energizer/Nutrient. So, are they all both? my fruit wine starter equipment kit cam with a product of each. I just use like an extra 1/4 tsp of the product that is both.


----------



## Johnd

Whitehrs said:


> The product I have is both Energizer/Nutrient. So, are they all both? my fruit wine starter equipment kit cam with a product of each. I just use like an extra 1/4 tsp of the product that is both.



That sounds fine, I believe that as long as you have the nutrients, you'll should be good. If you didn't have anything at all to feed your yeast, you could have an issue.


----------



## tjgaul

I do have nutrient, but I don't recall it stating that it is both nutrient and energizer. I was under the perception that they were 2 different products. I'll take a closer look at the label when I get home. So far all of my fermentations have taken off fine with just the nutrient, including raspberry, blackberry and wild grape wines from scratch. 

Thanks for the feedback. This forum is really helpful and informative.


----------



## wineforfun

tjgaul said:


> I do have nutrient, but I don't recall it stating that it is both nutrient and energizer. I was under the perception that they were 2 different products. I



They are two different products. Not sure what the above mentioned combo is.


----------



## Whitehrs

I'll post a picture later. if I remember.


----------



## Stevelaz

Darn, i cut the lemon juice down like he said but didn't add anymore fruit than what the original calls for. I bet it would be better with a bit more fruit. But since this is my first dragon blood, and i only did a 3 gallon batch, i will see how we like and then adjust next time. 

I was also looking at the Skeeter pee recipe. That looks darn good too! Any preference which is better? I think i will give that one a try next!


----------



## Whitehrs

you can add some of the concentrate "berry blend" as an F-pak (with some sorbate and k-meta). to add flavor, sweetness, and stabilization... during the aging process, or just before bottling.


----------



## Stevelaz

It seems like my ferment is very slow to start. Is that normal. Its been a bit over 24 hrs since i pitched the yeast. Just a small amount of foam but no noticeable fizzing.. Thanks!

GO CUBS


----------



## willie

Stevelaz said:


> It seems like my ferment is very slow to start. Is that normal. Its been a bit over 24 hrs since i pitched the yeast. Just a small amount of foam but no noticeable fizzing.. Thanks!
> 
> GO CUBS



Your DB ferment sounds like normal for one day. As for Skeeter Pee you will just have to try it. We love it. A great summer wine and we will be still drinking our last batch this fall and winter till it is gone. We have had family members say they just love it cause they have never tasted anything like it. 

Will


----------



## Stevelaz

I'm just starting day 3 of fermentation. Sg is only 1.068 at 74 deg. Isn't that kinda slow? Starting sg was about 1.075. I though this was supposed to be a fast fermentation?


----------



## wineforfun

Stevelaz said:


> Darn, i cut the lemon juice down like he said but didn't add anymore fruit than what the original calls for. I bet it would be better with a bit more fruit. But since this is my first dragon blood, and i only did a 3 gallon batch, i will see how we like and then adjust next time.
> 
> I was also looking at the Skeeter pee recipe. That looks darn good too! Any preference which is better? I think i will give that one a try next!



You'll be fine. Most of us all went with 1lb. of fruit per gal. when first making it. Just make sure and give it a couple months in the bottle before drinking as the fruit really comes forward in that time.


----------



## wineforfun

Stevelaz said:


> I'm just starting day 3 of fermentation. Sg is only 1.068 at 74 deg. Isn't that kinda slow? Starting sg was about 1.075. I though this was supposed to be a fast fermentation?



Are you stirring it daily? 
My normal DB ferments usually last 7-9 days depending on the variables.


----------



## Stevelaz

yes i am stirring... I wonder if some formaid k should be added?


----------



## wineforfun

Stevelaz said:


> yes i am stirring... I wonder if some formaid k should be added?



Couldn't say as I have never had any issues with DB. Normally takes off fermenting within 36-48hrs. Not a big foamer, if using EC-1118.


----------



## Bodenski

I have my first gallon of Dragonblood in primary fermentation right now. I used Dextrose instead of table sugar, and it took a lot more than I expected from the recipe to get the SG up. Does dextrose not raise the SG as much per cup as table sugar does? 

Just curious if anyone has experienced this. For a gallon I ended up using 5 1/3 cups of dextrose and that only got me up to 1.070. I was only expecting to use 3 & 1/3 initially. I also ended up adding a cup of table sugar (once I found it in the pantry) and the final OG (after fruit) was 1.084. I figured it would dilute a little with water when doing the rankings so I didn't think the final alcohol would be too much. Just odd that it took so much more than I was expecting initially.


----------



## tjgaul

I put together my first batch (3 gal) of Dragon Blood on Friday and pitched the yeast (Jack Keller starter recipe) on Saturday. I'm making this batch in a 5 gallon Igloo drink cooler. OG right on target at 1.075, but temp was only 62. Sunday SG 1.060 @ 62 degrees. I was concerned that the low temp would cause an lengthy fermentation. However, this morning it's up to 70 degrees and the SG is at 1.050. Seems like good progress and the aroma is fabulous. I enjoy applying the "presser method". It makes me feel more involved in the process.

Since I have a spigot on the cooler I have the ability to drain the juice off into a carboy and then add it back to the fruit bag simulating a pump over. Has anyone tried this technique? Is it advisable to do pump overs on Dragon's Blood?


----------



## wineforfun

tjgaul said:


> Since I have a spigot on the cooler I have the ability to drain the juice off into a carboy and then add it back to the fruit bag simulating a pump over. Has anyone tried this technique? Is it advisable to do pump overs on Dragon's Blood?



Never tried with the spigot/cooler as I don't know how you are going to control racking over all the lees/sediment in the bottom of your Igloo. Seems you are just going to move all of the interior from one vessel to another.


----------



## tjgaul

I thought the idea behind pumping over was to aerate the wine and allow the fruit bag time to sit, dry out a little and intensify the flavors. I was under the impression that you were not trying to segregate the lees until you got down to SG 1.000. However, this technique is usually associated with the vinting of fresh grapes and not fruit wines. There may be no benefit. Pressing and aggressive stirring may be the best answer for this recipe. 

Maybe I am thinking too far outside the box?!?


----------



## Stevelaz

My sg has hit 1.000 today. I know the directions say to leave it in the primary untill the sg remains under 1.000 for 3 days, but is it going to be ok for that long with just a towel protecting it. I was thinking of racking it to carboy and letting it finish..


----------



## jumby

That's the point I snap down the lid and put it under airlock.


----------



## Elmer

I don't know how others have faired, but I am seriously considering never using strawberry in my wines.

UN-Sweetened It is very tart and unpleasant, not sure it mixes with blueberry/black,
Maybe age is needed
But so far not a fan


----------



## wineforfun

Elmer said:


> I don't know how others have faired, but I am seriously considering never using strawberry in my wines.
> 
> UN-Sweetened It is very tart and unpleasant, not sure it mixes with blueberry/black,
> Maybe age is needed
> But so far not a fan



Have made some very good strawberry wines................but, they have all been backsweetened. I am not a big fan of fruit wines that are bone dry. I believe you need a little sugar to pull some flavor out.


----------



## Elmer

wineforfun said:


> Have made some very good strawberry wines................but, they have all been backsweetened. I am not a big fan of fruit wines that are bone dry. I believe you need a little sugar to pull some flavor out.




I had all intentions of back-sweetening, but my initial impression was that it was spoiled.
It was a tough flavor


----------



## dallase

Give it some time. Give it some medium oak while
you wait. Try it again in another 4-6 weeks.

I dont backsweeten much. Usually in the 1.000 to 1.004 range, and its a crowd favorite.


----------



## Stevelaz

dallase said:


> Give it some time. Give it some medium oak while
> you wait. Try it again in another 4-6 weeks.
> 
> I dont backsweeten much. Usually in the 1.000 to 1.004 range, and its a crowd favorite.



How much sugar do you add to get to that range?


----------



## dallase

Stevelaz said:


> How much sugar do you add to get to that range?



Normally 1/4 cup per gallon. Really depends where my final SG sits post ferment. My last batch was 0.988, one before that was 0.993... so that 1/4cup per gallon gets me in that range normally.

I think those that drink these super early do 1/2cup per gallon (netting 1.06 to 1.012) which helps offset the bite of acidity and alcohol a bit.

I like mine around 12-13% alcohol w/medium oak. And I dont bottle until its bulk aged in carboy for 3 months. At 1-2 months, its still pretty harsh!


----------



## Elmer

dallase said:


> Give it some time. Give it some medium oak while
> you wait. Try it again in another 4-6 weeks.
> 
> I dont backsweeten much. Usually in the 1.000 to 1.004 range, and its a crowd favorite.




Never considered oak.
How much do you use?
Never used oak on this, maybe I will try it in a gallon


----------



## Bodenski

dallase said:


> I think those that drink these super early do 1/2cup per gallon (netting 1.06 to 1.012) which helps offset the bite of acidity and alcohol a bit.


I think DangerDave says he goes for 3/4 cup/gallon for his tastes. That's what I did for my first batch, which I'm waiting to make sure doesn't start re fermenting before I bottle. I'm not normally a big fan of super dry wines, but now that I've got a bunch going that might change. (I hope it isn't too sweet now!)


----------



## jumby

1 cup per gallon seems to be the sweet spot for me. No pun intended! It falls into the semi sweet range when finished at that rate.


----------



## Bodenski

jumby said:


> 1 cup per gallon seems to be the sweet spot for me. No pun intended! It falls into the semi sweet range when finished at that rate.


I'm curious, how long do wait from pitching yeast to drinking the first bottle at that level of sugar? I started my first ever batch Oct 29th, and wanted to take a bottle down for Thanksgiving. (It looks beautiful in the gallon jug, but I'm making sure it doesn't start refermenting before I bottle it). If a month isn't long enough, then it will bee a Christmas wine I guess!


----------



## jumby

I usually bottle about a month or so out from pitching the yeast. It's very drinkable and good at that point but the fruit flavors will be more detectable in a few weeks to a couple of months in the bottle. IMHO the fruit flavors peak at about 2-3 months. Just my 2 cents from my personal experiences.


----------



## mennyg19

I wouldve loved to bottle, but for some reason I cant get the gas out of my wine. Keep drilling and it keeps bubbling. I do the bottle shake test and it keeps failing


----------



## jumby

mennyg19 said:


> I wouldve loved to bottle, but for some reason I cant get the gas out of my wine. Keep drilling and it keeps bubbling. I do the bottle shake test and it keeps failing



Make sure you're not over agitating and actually adding co2 to your wine. I rarely degas my wine for more then 10-15 mins with a wine whip and drill. Give it a few weeks to month and bottle. It'll be fine. That only applies to my DB. Not wine from grapes. 

btw, do a shake test with a commercial store bought wine and I'll betcha it fails too.


----------



## reefman

mennyg19 said:


> I wouldve loved to bottle, but for some reason I cant get the gas out of my wine. Keep drilling and it keeps bubbling. I do the bottle shake test and it keeps failing


 What's your specific gravity? It could still be fermenting.


----------



## Stevelaz

jumby said:


> I usually bottle about a month or so out from pitching the yeast. It's very drinkable and good at that point but the fruit flavors will be more detectable in a few weeks to a couple of months in the bottle. IMHO the fruit flavors peak at about 2-3 months. Just my 2 cents from my personal experiences.



Do you think bottling in a month as opposed to leaving it in the carboy to age for the 2-3 month makes a difference? I was just going to let nine age the 2-3 months in the carboy....


----------



## jumby

Stevelaz said:


> Do you think bottling in a month as opposed to leaving it in the carboy to age for the 2-3 month makes a difference? I was just going to let nine age the 2-3 months in the carboy....



I can only speak from my own personal experiences. I don't bulk age DB that long. Grape wines, that's a different story. As soon as my DB clears after sweetening, I bottle it. It usually takes about 2 weeks after sweetening for it to clear completely. Personally for me it doesn't make a difference as long as it's clear at bottling time. After a few months in the bottle it does become more fruit forward.


----------



## tjgaul

Christmas Dragon's Blood. 

I made a 3 gallon batch of the standard recipe, sans energizer, which is now settling out in a carboy. It took almost a week to ferment (albeit it was on the cool side). I decided to get creative and make a Holiday version as a "Seconds" wine. I had just moved a small batch of Niagara out of primary so I took the dregs, including currants, and added in the leftover fruit bag (plus a 1.5 cups new fruit) from the first batch of DB to provide the yeast and fruit. Separately I steeped a cinnamon stick, cloves and allspice in some sugar water to get to SG 1.075. Once it cooled down to 80 I combined it all, added nutrient and energizer and let it go. Started it on Sunday and by Wednesday night it was already down to .995. That was a fast ferment. Smells great . . . fruity, but with the spice undertones. We'll see what it tastes like once it settles out. Should be ready just in time for the holidays.

Anyone else experiment with spicing up the DB for the holidays?

Tim


----------



## willie

tjgaul said:


> Christmas Dragon's Blood.
> 
> I made a 3 gallon batch of the standard recipe, sans energizer, which is now settling out in a carboy. It took almost a week to ferment (albeit it was on the cool side). I decided to get creative and make a Holiday version as a "Seconds" wine. I had just moved a small batch of Niagara out of primary so I took the dregs, including currants, and added in the leftover fruit bag (plus a 1.5 cups new fruit) from the first batch of DB to provide the yeast and fruit. Separately I steeped a cinnamon stick, cloves and allspice in some sugar water to get to SG 1.075. Once it cooled down to 80 I combined it all, added nutrient and energizer and let it go. Started it on Sunday and by Wednesday night it was already down to .995. That was a fast ferment. Smells great . . . fruity, but with the spice undertones. We'll see what it tastes like once it settles out. Should be ready just in time for the holidays.
> 
> Anyone else experiment with spicing up the DB for the holidays?
> 
> Tim



Hey! go back to page 343 and you can read where a couple of folks are making it. The recipe I follow is from Jericurl. She can help you with it if you wish. You can add or subtract what ever you want to your taste. I have a batch that I back sweetened and added the goodies to just a few days ago. 

Will


----------



## tjgaul

Thanks Willie . . . went back and read the earlier posts. This is a great thread, but it is a bit voluminous. I'm pretty certain I'll be making more DB soon.


----------



## HeadWatersWine

Have'nt posted in a while. Just started a Sweet Strawberry Tart using Daves recipe. Here we go again.


----------



## willie

HeadWatersWine said:


> Have'nt posted in a while. Just started a Sweet Strawberry Tart using Daves recipe. Here we go again.



This is a real good wine. When we make it we back off on the lemon some we don't like it quite so tart.


----------



## Bodenski

My first gallon, bottled and ready to go! And It seems OK with 3/4 cup of sugar for the back-sweetening.


----------



## Stevelaz

Bodenski said:


> My first gallon, bottled and ready to go! And It seems OK with 3/4 cup of sugar for the back-sweetening.



That looks great! Mine should be ready in a few weeks to try. How long to when you bottled and how is taste? How would you describe what Dragon Blood taste like to someone? I was telling someone about it yesterday and really didn't know what to compare it to since ive never had it before. Also I like those smaller clear bottles with the caps! What type of bottle is that and where did you get it? I looked for clear beer bottles and really couldn't find anything. Thanks!


----------



## Bodenski

Stevelaz said:


> That looks great! Mine should be ready in a few weeks to try. How long to when you bottled and how is taste? How would you describe what Dragon Blood taste like to someone? I was telling someone about it yesterday and really didn't know what to compare it to since ive never had it before. Also I like those smaller clear bottles with the caps! What type of bottle is that and where did you get it? I looked for clear beer bottles and really couldn't find anything. Thanks!


It was 3 weeks from pitching yeast to bottling. A week was watching after I sweetened it (3/4 cup granulated sugar for the one gallon) to make sure it didn't start up fermenting again. I probably should have waited longer, but I wanted to take a bottle home for Thanksgiving, so I went ahead and risked capping it. (I don't mind a blown-out cork. Bottle bombs would be a different story!)

As far as taste goes, I'm not 100% sure how I'd describe it. It was light and fruity. Not too tart from the lemon juice (which I've heard some folks mention). Even just three weeks out I didn't think the alcohol was very hot tasting. I have a strong suspicion this won't last long enough for me to tell any difference with aging.

The smaller bottles are Stella Artois Cidre bottles. They are branded on the bottle, so I don't know if I'd gift those ones.

This was easy to make, and even SHMBO didn't mind it. So this will be on a pretty steady rotation I have a feeling.


----------



## Stevelaz

Bodenski said:


> The smaller bottles are Stella Artois Cidre bottles. They are branded on the bottle, so I don't know if I'd gift those ones.



Did you buy those bottles empty or did you just save them?


----------



## Bodenski

Stevelaz said:


> Did you buy those bottles empty or did you just save them?


My home recycling program 

I tried to get a bunch of different ciders at one point to determine how sweet a cider I liked before I made my last batch. The Stela ones were too sweet for my taste, but the clear bottles work awesome here.


----------



## Whitehrs

Why does my DDB not clear like everyone else. I follow instructions and no it's 3 weeks in and it's 5 days in the secondary at sg 0.099 and it is cloudy as anything. It is made from 100% juice concentrate and it just does not clear. I plan to treat with Sorbate, k-meta and sparkliod. just to see how it does. Any suggestions. if nothing else after treating, I will leave it for a month, rack and treat and bulk age for a month and see what happens. any ideas?


----------



## wineforfun

Whitehrs said:


> Why does my DDB not clear like everyone else. I follow instructions and no it's 3 weeks in and it's 5 days in the secondary at sg 0.099 and it is cloudy as anything. It is made from 100% juice concentrate and it just does not clear. I plan to treat with Sorbate, k-meta and sparkliod. just to see how it does. Any suggestions. if nothing else after treating, I will leave it for a month, rack and treat and bulk age for a month and see what happens. any ideas?



What does "no it's 3 weeks in and it's 5 days in the secondary" mean?

Anyway, so it appears you haven't added any clearing agents to it yet. If that is correct, that is why it is cloudy. Sparklloid is fine, SuperKleer will work better.


----------



## Bodenski

Whitehrs said:


> I plan to treat with Sorbate, k-meta and sparkliod. just to see how it does. Any suggestions. if nothing else after treating, I will leave it for a month, rack and treat and bulk age for a month and see what happens. any ideas?


Make sure your wine is degassed well. That will keep it from clearing much.

Also, If you look at the instructions, DangerDave has you adding the spakaloid when you first move it into the secondary. So I would add now and see what happens. Following that order I was clear and able to bottle in 3 weeks from pitching yeast.


----------



## freqflyer

Whitehrs said:


> Why does my DDB not clear like everyone else. I follow instructions and no it's 3 weeks in and it's 5 days in the secondary at sg 0.099 and it is cloudy as anything. It is made from 100% juice concentrate and it just does not clear. I plan to treat with Sorbate, k-meta and sparkliod. just to see how it does. Any suggestions. if nothing else after treating, I will leave it for a month, rack and treat and bulk age for a month and see what happens. any ideas?



Make sure it is thoroughly degassed. Also, if you haven't bought a clearing agent yet, get Super Clear. It works better than sparkloid. With Super Clear, when you add the second part and stir. It will start to clear so quickly it will look like a snow globe.


----------



## MarcAndr

*Danger Daves dragon bloodwine*

I noted that in the primary fermentation the temperature range is instructed to be from 68° to 80°F. What temperature range should we keep the secondary fermentation?


----------



## Johnd

MarcAndr said:


> I noted that in the primary fermentation the temperature range is instructed to be from 68° to 80°F. What temperature range should we keep the secondary fermentation?



Same temperature range applies when you have transferred to glass. The lower you are on the scale, the longer it will take to finish, the higher, the faster.


----------



## JetJockey

The lower the temperature the harder it is to remove CO2, as well. The fermentation temperature also affects the flavor too.


----------



## AkTom

I'm so excited... Monday I ordered my all in one pump. It should be here (in Alaska) by Friday. My wine will be degassed and then bottled. I don't get excited by much but this is it. WOO HOO!


----------



## Stevelaz

My Dragon blood is about one month old now I tried a glass last night with a little sugar very good but a bit young. Today I Racked and added a cup and a half of sugar to my 3 gallons, stirred vigorously. Now it is quite cloudy! Is that normal? Will it clear in week or so? It was very clear before adding the sugar.


----------



## Stevelaz

..........................


----------



## jumby

Stevelaz said:


> My Dragon blood is about one month old now I tried a glass last night with a little sugar very good but a bit young. Today I Racked and added a cup and a half of sugar to my 3 gallons, stirred vigorously. Now it is quite cloudy! Is that normal? Will it clear in week or so? It was very clear before adding the sugar.



That's normal! Give it a lil time and it will clear again.


----------



## Stevelaz

Ok. Today is does look clearer. However, i see what appears to be sugar at the bottom of the carboy! I stirred the crap out of it after adding the sugar! 

Has anyone ever tried anything else besides sugar to back sweeten like wine conditioner? I used the vintners wine conditioner before and liked the results and have half bottle left. Was thinking of trying it if it need to be sweetened any further.


----------



## Rampage4all

Triple berry heavy on Blackberry dragons blood turned out great. Need to get more going don't think it will last long.


----------



## Stevelaz

Rampage4all said:


> Triple berry heavy on Blackberry dragons blood turned out great. Need to get more going don't think it will last long.



How long did you wait before bottling? How much sugar?


----------



## Elmer

Stevelaz said:


> How long did you wait before bottling? How much sugar?




You can bottle once it is clear & degassed.
Or you can let it bulk age 1-3 months.
The original recipe calls for 4-5 cups of sugar.
I prefer 1/2 as much.
I use about 2 cups per 5 gallon.


----------



## Rampage4all

Stevelaz said:


> How long did you wait before bottling? How much sugar?



I let it bulk age for about 10 months. Had 8 pounds of sugar for fermenting. I back sweetened with oceanspray 100% juice raspberry blackberry 2 bottles 32oz I believe and one bottle 375ml of Blackberry liqueur. Just a hint of sweetness to it super berry flavor. Think that's all right don't have my notes with me


----------



## MarcAndr

*Dragon Blood wine*

I like this recipe and I am in the process of making my first dragon blood. I see the fermentation temp for the primary is 68-70 deg F. What is the temp reccomendation for the secondary fermentations??


----------



## jumby

MarcAndr said:


> I like this recipe and I am in the process of making my first dragon blood. I see the fermentation temp for the primary is 68-70 deg F. What is the temp reccomendation for the secondary fermentations??



If possible keep it in that temperature range throughout the entire process.


----------



## JetJockey

It also depends on the yeast used, as each strain has different temperature ranges. I've fermented at higher Temp's, just under 80*F. For reds, I stay between 75-78 with 1118 yeast.


----------



## wineforfun

Stevelaz said:


> Ok. Today is does look clearer. However, i see what appears to be sugar at the bottom of the carboy! I stirred the crap out of it after adding the sugar!
> 
> Has anyone ever tried anything else besides sugar to back sweeten like wine conditioner? I used the vintners wine conditioner before and liked the results and have half bottle left. Was thinking of trying it if it need to be sweetened any further.



Few things.

1. I always use table sugar to backsweeten. Sometimes it takes more stirring than others to dissolve.
2. Yes, you can use simple syrup to backsweeten, then the "dissolving" won't be an issue.
3. Another option for backsweetening is honey.


----------



## tjgaul

Made my first DB last month. I was shooting for a 3 gallon batch, but after getting things adjusted in the beginning I ended up with a little extra. I took the opportunity to go ahead and sweeten the extra 1.5 L a bit more than I thought was necessary (I figured most of it would go to topping off the carboy anyhow). My wife sampled the "extra" last night and was hooked. Tonight we will taste test to decide the right amount of sugar to add back to the full batch.

I find that making a simple syrup and using that as the sweetener avoids the issue of the sugar not fully blending back in to the wine. However, it does require some rather precise measuring while you're conducting your taste tests, and a little math afterwards to extrapolate the syrup volume to the carboy volume. I usually give the wine a week or 2 after sweetening to allow everything to blend together and ensure there's no further fermentation going on. For recordkeeping and labeling I note how many ML of sweetener was added back per 100ml wine. That makes it easy to replicate if I somehow make a fabulous batch.

Tim


----------



## AkTom

Took a large bottle (1500 ?) over to a dinner. They had some commercial berry wine they were working on. It had a little better body than my DB, but was also much sweeter. Needsless to say, I brought home a couple of empties


----------



## tjgaul

I would appreciate input on a plan I am hatching. My initial DB was quite the hit with the wife and before I even have the bulk of it bottled she's talking about the next batch and how she thinks some strawberries would really add flavor. 

I happen to have another experiment going making 5 gal of Merlot and 1 gal of Merlot port from one of the real cheap kits on Amazon. Both batches have a mix of raspberries, blackberries and blueberries in the primaries right now and I am applying the "presser method" to them daily. When I rack off to the carboy I was thinking I would combine the fruit and make a seconds wine in the DB style, simply adding a couple LBs of fresh strawberries to the fruit bag. 

I've made a couple seconds wines so far (raspberry & concord) and both are progressing well, but are only a couple months old and have not been bottled yet.

Any downsides to mixing new fruit with once used? Any particular downsides to using strawberries in a DB style wine?

All thoughts are welcome. Thanks.
Tim


----------



## Johnd

tjgaul said:


> I would appreciate input on a plan I am hatching. My initial DB was quite the hit with the wife and before I even have the bulk of it bottled she's talking about the next batch and how she thinks some strawberries would really add flavor.
> 
> I happen to have another experiment going making 5 gal of Merlot and 1 gal of Merlot port from one of the real cheap kits on Amazon. Both batches have a mix of raspberries, blackberries and blueberries in the primaries right now and I am applying the "presser method" to them daily. When I rack off to the carboy I was thinking I would combine the fruit and make a seconds wine in the DB style, simply adding a couple LBs of fresh strawberries to the fruit bag.
> 
> I've made a couple seconds wines so far (raspberry & concord) and both are progressing well, but are only a couple months old and have not been bottled yet.
> 
> Any downsides to mixing new fruit with once used? Any particular downsides to using strawberries in a DB style wine?
> 
> All thoughts are welcome. Thanks.
> Tim



My only thoughts are that your wine will be on the weak side, you'll be using "used" berries from your first wine, and strawberries are pretty weak in flavor themselves. Combined together, it seems that you may be lacking in flavor profile in the finished product.


----------



## tjgaul

Thanks Johnd . . . . I planned to make a small 1 gallon batch. Maybe I will pump up the volume of strawberries and see if there's anything else in the freezer that could contribute. After making my 3 gal batch of DB I made a 1 gal seconds with cinnamon, clove and allspice. It came out decent, albeit a bit strong on the cinnamon. 

I really enjoy messing around with the small batches while I'm waiting for all these darn reds to mature. Plus, I tend to be fairly frugal and you don't have much to loose on a seconds wine. 

Thanks again.


----------



## Johnd

tjgaul said:


> Thanks Johnd . . . . I planned to make a small 1 gallon batch. Maybe I will pump up the volume of strawberries and see if there's anything else in the freezer that could contribute. After making my 3 gal batch of DB I made a 1 gal seconds with cinnamon, clove and allspice. It came out decent, albeit a bit strong on the cinnamon.
> 
> I really enjoy messing around with the small batches while I'm waiting for all these darn reds to mature. Plus, I tend to be fairly frugal and you don't have much to loose on a seconds wine.
> 
> Thanks again.



You could always go to Sams and spend just a few bucks on one of those big frozen bags of triple berry blend to help it along.......


----------



## ohiowino

Can i make this without yeast energizer? I have nutrient but not energizer. Also...can this come out dry like a table wine or is sweet only viable option? I was trying to find cheap wine options while my first batch of good stuff ages and I get the hang of this.


----------



## mennyg19

Dont need energizer


----------



## JetJockey

You can make it bone dry or as sweet as you like, depending on the amount of sugar used to back sweeten. Note that DB berry flavors come out more with a little backsweetening. Seems most people that I've given bottles, prefer it at 1.008 corrected SG with ~13% ABV. That might be considered semi-sweet.


----------



## ohiowino

I wonder if i could make 5 gallon bone dry then split into 5 different gallon jugs backsweetened differently?


----------



## wineforfun

ohiowino said:


> I wonder if i could make 5 gallon bone dry then split into 5 different gallon jugs backsweetened differently?



Of course you can. I do that often with a lemon-lime base I ferment. I make a 2 - 3 gal. batch then once fermented and cleared, rack into 1 gal. carboys and flavor/backsweeten accordingly.


----------



## tjgaul

ohiowino said:


> I wonder if i could make 5 gallon bone dry then split into 5 different gallon jugs back sweetened differently?



I agree with wineforfun. Split however you like once it is finished and clear. For my whites, I have been bottling 2-3 gal of dry and racking the remainder to a 3 gal carboy to sweeten slightly. Then I bottle a couple more gallons and rack the last gallon off to experiment with. I haven't done enough testing yet to definitively state the proper RS so I will just have to keep making more wine. Darn!

Tim


----------



## reefman

Many people bottle DB and SP dry, and then sweeten to taste, depending on your audience preference, when you open it.


----------



## gurusan

Just started my first DB, 5 gallons. However, due to being snowed in at the moment did a variation. Next time I will probably follow the recipe exactly to see how it was meant to taste.

This time I made 5 gallons, added on top of active mead lees in the primary, but had no fruit on hand so added a can of welch's concord grape concentrate.

I will either add some triple berry mix later on in the primary, or rack over the fruit in the secondary....or maybe both!

-edit..added 6 lb triple berry blend to primary after 24 hrs. Fermentation is very active, yay!


----------



## AkTom

I have 10# of blueberries and 1.5# cranberries. How does that sound? 
I have my first batch bottled, followed the recipe. Body is a bit thin... Tastes great. Second batch is a tropical in the carboy. Third is back to DB with 12# berries. I have another 8 gallon fermentor, might as well use it. 
Thanks 
Tom


----------



## willie

gurusan said:


> Just started my first DB, 5 gallons. However, due to being snowed in at the moment did a variation. Next time I will probably follow the recipe exactly to see how it was meant to taste.
> 
> This time I made 5 gallons, added on top of active mead lees in the primary, but had no fruit on hand so added a can of welch's concord grape concentrate.
> 
> I will either add some triple berry mix later on in the primary, or rack over the fruit in the secondary....or maybe both!
> 
> -edit..added 6 lb triple berry blend to primary after 24 hrs. Fermentation is very active, yay!



Adding the Triple Berry to your fermenter will really help your batch. Good luck.

Will


----------



## Stevelaz

I just bottled my first 3 gallon batch of Dragon Blood! A few days ago i racked and backed sweetened to about 1.010 maybe a bit more. I was trying to keep it a bit below that. It is pretty good except for kind of a harsh after taste. Im wondering if thats the lemon juice or maybe even the alcohol.

I noticed that Dave did another recipe called "Dragonette" with no lemon juice at all and double the triple berry. Anyone tell me why it was changed and how the end product is of that recipe. Im thinking of doing another 3 gallon batch of that one.


----------



## Johnd

Stevelaz said:


> I noticed that Dave did another recipe called "Dragonette" with no lemon juice at all and double the triple berry. Anyone tell me why it was changed and how the end product is of that recipe. Im thinking of doing another 3 gallon batch of that one.



When I do DB, I use triple the berries and half the lemon juice, never had any kind of aftertaste, but that doesn't really mean it's the lemon juice that's responsible.


----------



## willie

Stevelaz said:


> I just bottled my first 3 gallon batch of Dragon Blood! A few days ago i racked and backed sweetened to about 1.010 maybe a bit more. I was trying to keep it a bit below that. It is pretty good except for kind of a harsh after taste. Im wondering if thats the lemon juice or maybe even the alcohol.
> 
> I noticed that Dave did another recipe called "Dragonette" with no lemon juice at all and double the triple berry. Anyone tell me why it was changed and how the end product is of that recipe. Im thinking of doing another 3 gallon batch of that one.



We use 30-45 oz of lemon juice and have never experienced any after taste from the lemon juice. You maybe are just experiencing your wine that just young yet and needs some more aging. At about 3 months the fruit and sweetness really starts to come forward. Give it some more time and at 3-6 months I believe you'll be happier with the taste. And as John does you can add more fruit to bump up that fruity taste that make this wine so popular on this site. 

Will


----------



## Stevelaz

Update: Took 2 bottles to a family X-mas eve and came home with 2 empty bottles! It was much better than when i tried it the other day. Maybe my taste buds were off a bit. I put in frige before and drank it cold and also tried over ice. I think this is going to be an excellent summer drink. However, i still want to try it with more tipple berry mix! Im still waiting to see if anyone can comment on the "Dragonette" version to see how it compares. Merry Christmas!


----------



## wineforfun

Stevelaz said:


> Update: Took 2 bottles to a family X-mas eve and came home with 2 empty bottles! It was much better than when i tried it the other day. Maybe my taste buds were off a bit. I put in frige before and drank it cold and also tried over ice. I think this is going to be an excellent summer drink. However, i still want to try it with more tipple berry mix! Im still waiting to see if anyone can comment on the "Dragonette" version to see how it compares. Merry Christmas!



My son made the dragonette years ago. We did not like it, but that was us. Seemed flat with the acid blend and lack of lemon juice.

We don't make much DB anymore, as we have a different go to quick drinker, but when we were making it, we would use 1.5lbs. of fruit per gallon. This gave a nice fruit flavor. As with any DB, you need to give it a couple months in the bottle. It will become much more fruit forward at that time. 
Also, by drinking it cold or on ice, it will subdue a lot of the flavors. We drink ours cool, not cold.


----------



## Toosweet

Thanks for sharing that recipe Dave. I'm a newly inspired newbie and now I'm hooked on the wine making. I found you on the Sicilian Channel on You tube. I plan on making this to see how it looks and tastes. 

Thanks again Mike


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*Yeast question*

I am planning a 3 gallon batch of DB using a can of Riesling concentrate and a fruit salad blend of pineapple, strawberries and mango. Would it be worthwhile to use Lalvin BM 4x4 yeast instead of EC-1118? I plan to skip the lemon juice in primary. I'm hoping the 4x4 will make a well-rounded, smooth wine.


----------



## Toosweet

Im using EC-1118, just started my DB yesterday with Blue berries Black berries straw berries and pomegranate. I havent used the Lalvin BM 4X4 so it would be interesting to see how it turns out. Good Luck!


----------



## Casper137

I'm about to start my first batch(es) of Dragon Blood.

I have 2 five gallon carboys so will adjust the recipe accordingly (doesn't look like I have to adjust much0.

I'm confused by the one step though.

*Carefully rack off one gallon of wine into a cleaned and sanitized container, and set aside.*

Set aside for what?


----------



## Stressbaby

Casper137 said:


> I'm about to start my first batch(es) of Dragon Blood.
> 
> I have 2 five gallon carboys so will adjust the recipe accordingly (doesn't look like I have to adjust much0.
> 
> I'm confused by the one step though.
> 
> *Carefully rack off one gallon of wine into a cleaned and sanitized container, and set aside.*
> 
> Set aside for what?



You are removing some volume of wine to allow room for the added sugar. Much or most of that wine will go back in when you top off after adding the sugar.


----------



## Casper137

Stressbaby said:


> You are removing some volume of wine to allow room for the added sugar. Much or most of that wine will go back in when you top off after adding the sugar.



Thanks.

Another question.

When do I want to snap the lid down and add a bung and bubbler?

After I add the yeast?


----------



## Mountainjack

Casper137 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Another question.
> 
> When do I want to snap the lid down and add a bung and bubbler?
> 
> After I add the yeast?



You add the bung & bubbler when it is racked into carboy normally about day 5 to 7. *(See step 4)*.

While in the bucket you will be hand pressing the fruit daily. I just place my lid on loosely and cover the hole where the bung would be placed with a piece of paper towel to keep bugs, etc out.


----------



## LJC

Hey everyone,

I just started my first batch of DB tonight, and maybe a little to hastily. I thought they berries were thawed enough to add to the primary but it appears they were still very very cold. The temperature is down to probably 45-50F, is there any problems with this? I haven't added the yeast yet as I need to let is sit for 24~ hours. Are the Yeast Nutrient/Energizer/Pectic Enzymes susceptible to low temperatures at all like yeast? I assume as long as the temp is back up to 75~ the yeast will still be happy.


----------



## jumby

LJC said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I just started my first batch of DB tonight, and maybe a little to hastily. I thought they berries were thawed enough to add to the primary but it appears they were still very very cold. The temperature is down to probably 45-50F, is there any problems with this? I haven't added the yeast yet as I need to let is sit for 24~ hours. Are the Yeast Nutrient/Energizer/Pectic Enzymes susceptible to low temperatures at all like yeast? I assume as long as the temp is back up to 75~ the yeast will still be happy.



You'll be fine! Just bring the juice up to temp and add the yeast.


----------



## Whitehrs

jumby said:


> You'll be fine! Just bring the juice up to temp and add the yeast.



+1, it might slow fermentation, but I hear that smooths the flavor, even make the flavor better. as it warms to room temp 70-75f it will pick up the fermentation. it should just start slower.


----------



## jburtner

I like the DB - My girl? Not so much....

That just means I also get to finish the bottle once I open it 

I also use it in Dragon-Tini's which are always a household favorite...

I'm going to need to start up a new batch soon though because I rather prefer it after some months in the bottle....

My fav rendition so far used much more berries than the recipe calls for - Like 10lbs fresh blackberries, and 10lbs fresh raspberries (no blueberries but I like those too!) - only 15oz or less lemon juice.... Sugar to about 12% potential ABV - and 3/4c sugar to backsweeten....

I've been buying and saving fresh berries in the freezer (at least 6lbs blueberries now) - I'll augment with some frozen black/rasp/blue - then maybe up the potential abv to 14 or 15% this time.... A little less lemon juice or maybe lime....

Get this stuff out of the dragon and into the bottle - sitting around waiting for summer!

Cheers!
johann


----------



## Stevelaz

*I also use it in Dragon-Tini's which are always a household favorite...*

The Dragon tini sounds good since i love martinis! How do you make it? Vodka? and whats your mix ratio? 


Im starting my next batch of Dragon Blood in a few days too...My last batch was the original recipe as i didn't see any variations at that time. Came out very good but i feel it was a little light on the fruit. This batch im going to double the triple berry and use at least half of the lemon juice. I would love to add as little sugar to back sweeten as needed since im not big on high sugar drinks. I wanna get ready for summer too!


----------



## jburtner

@Stevelaz

Yes Vodka or Gin - I find it needs to be about 50/50 to get good solid flavor with a good kick but am always experimenting too 

I actually need to refine and solidify the recipe so I'll work on that tonight and get back with some details.

Pretty sure it also involved a shaved orange or lemon peel.....

Cheers!
-jb


----------



## jburtner

When I did my tests on the back sweetening amounts I had already let it sit for a couple months - cleared/filtered... I then added the sorbate and started with 1/4c sugar into the carboy and let it sit for a couple weeks to assess the sweetness better.... I found that in my case I liked 1/2c to 3/4c and I had two slightly different batches with different berry mixes and lemon juice.... Minimal sugar though and now 3-4 months later those are very good....

I tried Bourbon / orange peel in the dragon-tini last night for a dragon-sour type and didn't like it as much as the tini's... Interested in any other good dragon cocktail recipe's !

Cheers!
-johann


----------



## Stevelaz

Ok. Sounds good. Are those batches your talking about 6 gallon where you like the 1/2 to 3/4 sugar?

I think i will try a dragon tini this weekend!


----------



## jburtner

Somewhere between 5 and six gallons yes... I don't particularly like sweet wines though and you can always add more sugar... But let it sit for a while to meld before bottling because it does bloom a little.

Cheers!
-johann


----------



## Stevelaz

That does not seem like that much sugar at all. 

Im starting a new batch tomorrow. Will go light on the sugar as i think i did to much in the last batch, but still good! This batch i am doubling the fruit and using half of the lemon juice to...so maybe that will make a difference.


----------



## jburtner

Just to be clear - I'm talking about sugar for back-sweetening. I think it called for up to ~6c in the original recipe. Other people may use less/more depending on their taste.

The sugar used in the fermentation portion (primary) was closer to 20cups which is what I used and that's where the alcohol comes from. Adding sorbate at the end prevents further fermentation so that when you add in your back sweetening sugar it does not ferment out and it stays sweet..

-johann


----------



## Stevelaz

yes, I was talking about back sweetening when i said i was going to go light on the sugar. Im not messing with the fermentation sugar except maybe adding a bit more to bump up the alcohol...lol. 

By the way how did you add your initial sugar for the fermentation? Did you just add to the water and mix? Or did you heat it in water first to dissolve it easier? I might try dissolving it in hot water this time. Anyone else welcome to chime in on that one...

Also, since im only doing a 3 gallon batch, besides the sugar and fruit, at fermentation should all the other ingredients be cut in half, like the tannin, yeast nutrient, energizer, ect... I believe i did cut them all in half for my last batch but wondering if i should have...


----------



## Stevelaz

Has anyone upped the sugar to have a higher alcohol content say 11 12 percent? Just wondering how it turned out. I just started a 3 gallon batch and added about 12 cups sugar to get a sg a bit below 1.080 (after all fruit and juice added) which should give me about a little over 10% alcohol. Was thinking of upping the sg a bit....


----------



## jumby

I bump mine up to about 1.090- 1.10 and it comes out just fine. That's not including the sugar content of the fruit.


----------



## Johnd

Stevelaz said:


> Has anyone upped the sugar to have a higher alcohol content say 11 12 percent? Just wondering how it turned out. I just started a 3 gallon batch and added about 12 cups sugar to get a sg a bit below 1.080 (after all fruit and juice added) which should give me about a little over 10% alcohol. Was thinking of upping the sg a bit....



Mine are all above 12%, and I triple the fruit. Big hit on a hot summer day with an ice cube or two in it.


----------



## Stevelaz

Johnd said:


> Mine are all above 12%, and I triple the fruit. Big hit on a hot summer day with an ice cube or two in it.



Do you remember how much sugar you added to get to that? Sg would have to be at 1.095 to be a bit over 12%. I am at 1.080 and i added about 13 cups sugar already for just a 3 gallon batch.


----------



## Johnd

Stevelaz said:


> Do you remember how much sugar you added to get to that? Sg would have to be at 1.095 to be a bit over 12%. I am at 1.080 and i added about 13 cups sugar already for just a 3 gallon batch.



No, I do not, but according to fermcalc, you need 1.17 lbs sugar to raise the sg of 3 gallons of must from 1.080 to 1.095.....


----------



## Stevelaz

Ok. Thanks.

Wow! I opened a bottle yesterday evening and it was very good! Much better that last month when i bottled! Still a little sweeter than i would have liked but still very good! Il be a little more careful when i back sweeten the next batch.

Double Wow!! I tried the "Dragon tini" that jb recommended in a previous post. Excellent!! I used vodka and first did an equal mix, 3 shots vodka to 3 shots of DB. I found that to be very good but a little much on the vodka. I then added another shot or so of the DB and that did it for me! Excellent! Great recommendation JB!!!


----------



## Stevelaz

I started a new 3 gallon batch of dragon blood following the Dragonette recipe. I wanted to try a bit more alcohol percent so i got the sg up to about 1.090. After sitting a day i pitched the yeast yesterday about noon and by 5 pm it was already slightly fermenting and by 9:30 pm it had some real good foaming action going! I was a bit surprised because i decided to try the ferment at a lower temp to see if it comes out smoother. The starting temp was 70 degrees.

This morning when i stirred and pressed the fruit the temp was about 68-69 and the sg was at about 1.086-88. 

Has anyone else done the fermentation at a lower temp? How was the results?


----------



## eurobug

Hi everyone,
After reading through most of the thread (yeah it took me some days), I decided to make a DB as well. I would like to give a short report here, so others might not make the same mistakes, or can learn from it. Thanks for all the information and the nice community you have going!
As I live in Belgium, I had to do with some modifications in the ingredients. Also, because I had some misfortunes with earlier wines and meads, I was pretty paranoid about underfeeding the yeasties (you should have smelled the rhino farts from our last mead, the whole house stinked, not just the basement...).

- 1.25 liter realemon (Well, what passes for it at least over here, the name is the same, but it is made locally).
- 5 kilo sugar
- 2 kilo mixed frozen berries (strawberry, raspberry, blueberry, blackberry, redcurrant) and 1 kilo raspberries.
- 2 banana's, chopped, cooked in some water, and a tbsp of bread yeast added. Cooked for 15 minutes, and added the liquid. This is supposed to be a good yeast food.
- 1 liter of white grape juice, with which I started the yeast one day beforehand.

Kinda threw it all together in a 6.5 gallon carboy through a funnel (no squeezing bag or anything, just dropped the loose fruit in), and filled to two third. Added 4 gram pectinase, 15 gram nutrient, and 4 gram tannin. Waited 24 hours, and added the yeast starter (bioferm champagne yeast added to white grape juice). Filled bottle to 4 inch below opening. Initial gravity 1.110
First activity noted after 7 hours (small bubbles forming). SG 1.10
After 24 hours, stirred with long stick, a lot of gas in solution, active bubbling, slight smell of sulphur dioxide. Added 10 gram DAP and 8 gram energizer. SG 1.08
After 36 hours, insane activity. Large water lock sputtering, going phfrrlurlublulub, at 220 blubs per minute. Removed some liquid due to overflowing (foamed up into water lock). Thick layer of berries on top, with pink foaming and large bubbles fizzing through this layer everywhere. The liquid itself seems like boiling. SG impossible to measure.
After 2.5 days, SG 1.03. Degassed by stirring
After 3.5 days, SG 1.014, degassed.
After 4.5 days, SG 1.00, but difficult to measure. The fruit seems to have dissolved mostly, little seeds everywhere, stuffing the wine thief. Only the husks from the redcurrants are still clearly visible in a layer on top, but now transparent.
After 6 days. No activity whatsoever. 0 blubs per minute. No more foaming. Tried to rack with racking cane in a pantyhose. Bad idea, didn't work. Then moved pantyhose to the receiving end of the racking tube, this worked much better and filtered out all the pits and seeds (note to self: buy SWMBO new pantyhose). Sulfited and sorbated. Put the carboy outside in a blanket, with temperatures close to freezing all day and night.
4 days later (day 10), racked again due to thick layer of sediment. They don't sell sparkolloid or superkleer over here, so I added 30 grams of bentonite to try and clear, and 600 gram sugar to backsweeten. Still outside, freezing temps (25F at night, 35F over day). At this alcohol level (14% ABV), it shouldn't freeze above 20F
Left it there for 3 weeks. Still very murky, not clear at all. Acquired a vacuum installation, and vacuum degassed (20 inch Hg for 30 min). Had a major brainfart and added 600 gram sugar again to backsweeten. Lesson learned: always check notes before handling wine, especially when drinking wine at the same time.
1 week later, nothing changed. Research learned that superkleer = kiezelsol + chitosan, which is sold here under different names. Bought Super Klar AB, which should be the same. Put the carboy back inside and used according to instructions. White flocks observed within 1 hour of adding the second component, after 12 hours a thick layer of white fluffy sediment formed, and it is starting to become clear.
After 3 days it is super "kleer", as promised. Red-purplish color, more purple than in most of the pictures I see of DB. This is today. Gonna leave it for one more week, rack off the fluffy stuff, and bottle.

I already tasted one glass of it. Tastes like a sweet-tart, very alcoholic, beverage made from berry pie filling, close in taste to cherry or berry "jenever" (hmmm maybe I'll try to add some juniper berries next time). Good, but will have to grow on me. Buzzed after one tall glass though.

Any thoughts on a blueberry only or a raspberry only dragon blood? These are also easy to find here, frozen.


----------



## Casper137

mmmmmmm 8 days in the bucket and it's down to about 1.02 and I couldn't resist a taste.

HOLY SCHNIKEYS!! That's some yummy blood red goodness!


----------



## Whitehrs

Casper137 said:


> mmmmmmm 8 days in the bucket and it's down to about 1.02 and I couldn't resist a taste.
> 
> HOLY SCHNIKEYS!! That's some yummy blood red goodness!




Wait a few months..


----------



## wineforfun

Stevelaz said:


> Has anyone upped the sugar to have a higher alcohol content say 11 12 percent? Just wondering how it turned out. I just started a 3 gallon batch and added about 12 cups sugar to get a sg a bit below 1.080 (after all fruit and juice added) which should give me about a little over 10% alcohol. Was thinking of upping the sg a bit....



Like Jumby, when I do make DB, I always make it 12.5 - 13%.


----------



## Stevelaz

wineforfun said:


> Like Jumby, when I do make DB, I always make it 12.5 - 13%.



I wound up getting my starting sg to 1.090 which according to chart should give me 11.5 percent alcohol. I wonder if the fruit will up that a bit? 

I was a bit nervous upping it anymore right now because i don't want it to be to hot where its not an easy drinker. Il see how this batch is and adjust next batch accordingly. 

None the less its looking good! Day 3 and im at 1.070 and it smells great!


----------



## wineforfun

Stevelaz said:


> I wound up getting my starting sg to 1.090 which according to chart should give me 11.5 percent alcohol. I wonder if the fruit will up that a bit?
> 
> I was a bit nervous upping it anymore right now because i don't want it to be to hot where its not an easy drinker. Il see how this batch is and adjust next batch accordingly.
> 
> None the less its looking good! Day 3 and im at 1.070 and it smells great!



1.090 is good. If it runs dry to around .995, it will give you around 12.4% ABV. That won't be too hot. a couple/few months in the bottle and it will be like sipping a fruity wine cooler on steroids.


----------



## Stevelaz

wineforfun said:


> 1.090 is good. If it runs dry to around .995, it will give you around 12.4% ABV. That won't be too hot. a couple/few months in the bottle and it will be like sipping a fruity wine cooler on steroids.



Good! Im looking forward to trying this batch!


----------



## JetJockey

I usually shoot for ~ high 13s-14% and most people i give it to like it there, but I also up the fruit to 9# for 6 gal. Mine always finishes at 0.994-0.996.


----------



## LJC

Hey everyone,

My first batch of Dragons Blood is coming along nicely (I think), I just hit 1.000 SG and removed the fruit bags (I used two since one wasn't big enough for the 8lbs of berries), and I am curious as to what others fruit bags looks like after they come out of the primary. I have read some people saying there is nothing but seeds left, but in mine I noticed the skins were more so still in tact and still somewhat resembled a a squished blue berry. I am curious now if I may not have used enough pectic enzymes. If wish I took a picture before chucking them, but if I squished them all together tightly it would have been a bit more than a baseballs worth of berry remains, is this a normal amount?

The color and taste was great in my mind, so I am not too concerned, just thinking ahead for my next batch.


----------



## Stevelaz

LJC, I think thats normal. Im on my second batch and the fruit was like that in mine to the first time and is like that now.


----------



## wineforfun

LJC said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> My first batch of Dragons Blood is coming along nicely (I think), I just hit 1.000 SG and removed the fruit bags (I used two since one wasn't big enough for the 8lbs of berries), and I am curious as to what others fruit bags looks like after they come out of the primary. I have read some people saying there is nothing but seeds left, but in mine I noticed the skins were more so still in tact and still somewhat resembled a a squished blue berry. I am curious now if I may not have used enough pectic enzymes. If wish I took a picture before chucking them, but if I squished them all together tightly it would have been a bit more than a baseballs worth of berry remains, is this a normal amount?
> 
> The color and taste was great in my mind, so I am not too concerned, just thinking ahead for my next batch.



I always have some "fruit" left in mine. It is usually just mush by that time, similar to yours. As long as you are squeezing it daily, you will be just fine.


----------



## Casper137

Just curious if there can be any negative effects doing what I did.

Had it fermenting for at around 71 degrees for about 11 days.

When the batch hit just under 1.010 I put a heater close by for about 12 hours to finish it off quicker (didn't mean to get the batch up to 110 degrees but I did).

Within that 12 hours it dropped to .998

Should be good to rack ya? With no negative side effects?


----------



## willie

Casper137 said:


> Just curious if there can be any negative effects doing what I did.
> 
> Had it fermenting for at around 71 degrees for about 11 days.
> 
> When the batch hit just under 1.010 I put a heater close by for about 12 hours to finish it off quicker (didn't mean to get the batch up to 110 degrees but I did).
> 
> Within that 12 hours it dropped to .998
> 
> Should be good to rack ya? With no negative side effects?



Well I would not rack it just yet. The 71 degree temp. was just fine. The lower ferment temp. will make your wine in the words of Danger Dave (A lower temp will produce a paler blush with more fruity aroma and a smoother taste.) Don't be in a hurry and if you haven't done it yet back off with the heater. Go back and read Dave's instructions and don't worry about what number the day is. Me personally I like to leave my wine in the fermenter till it goes dry and get the same reading for 2-3 days straight. Remember the lower the temp. the slower the ferment takes to go to dry. 

Will


----------



## Stevelaz

I have been fermenting at a lower temp also, between 70 and 72 degrees. I want to see if in fact it does come out a bit smoother.

My ferment is coming along pretty good in my opinion. I'm at day 7 and my sg is at 1.008 today, the temp is at 72. Probably 2 more days until i lock the lid and airlock on to let it finish fermenting, maybe even tomorrow. 

Once finished fermenting I to was thinking about getting the temp up a little higher, but only to about 75-78 deg since its supposed to be much easier to degas at a higher temp.


----------



## Casper137

Well I racked my 45ish litres from buckets to carboys.

My carboys are only 5 gallon.

Therefore I had about 4 litres plus I just couldn't waste so begrudgingly am drinking them.

2/3 Dragon Blood, some Ginger ale and a splash of Orange Juice and the wife and I are feeling no pain tonight.


----------



## Stevelaz

Well my sg fell to under 0.990, about 0.986-88. So i racked but i got a lot of what i believe was fruit pulp into the wine that was just racked. So what i did was racked it again and filtered it thru 2 new mesh bags that i had. Worked great! I don't remember that much stuff in my last batch at the first rack. I then added the kmeta and sotbate.

I then degassed with the wine whip on drill, but man took a while and foam would not go away. I finally figured it is going to foam no matter what by whipping it?. I then did the poof test and nothing, so i guess i degassed it enough. Added super clear/duelfine. looking good!


----------



## Stevelaz

Wow . It is really clearing well with a nice layer of sediment at the bottom! Also my last batch i had a cloudy haze up 3-4 inches from the bottom that i do not see this time.


----------



## Elmer

Stevelaz said:


> Wow . It is really clearing good with a nice layer of sediment at the bottom! Also my last batch i had a cloudy haze up 3-4 inches from the bottom that i do not see this time.




Well!
Clearing well!


----------



## Stevelaz

Elmer said:


> Well!
> Clearing well!



Sorry, didn't know we were being monitored by the grammer police.. My bad...lol


----------



## willie

Stevelaz said:


> Sorry, didn't know we were being monitored by the grammer police.. My bad...lol



I for one am happy you seem to really be getting into making this Dragon Blood wine and I enjoy reading your posts. Your enthusiasm has not gone unnoticed. We make kits and the Dragon Blood wines and I really enjoy making the D.B. Right after Christmas we made 2 kit wines and 6 gal. batch of Strawberry, Triple Berry, and just back sweetened a Tropical. Up next will be a Blueberry and another Triple Berry and a batch of Skeeter Pee to take us into Spring. 

Will


----------



## Stevelaz

Thanks Will. Yes, I'm having fun making DB especially since my first batch, that was bottled before xmas, got raving reviews by most who tried it! I took 2 bottles this past weekend to a club i belong to see what the heavy drinkers thought of it. lol. needless to say they were both gone withing half hour!

Ive only been in this hobby for a few years now and hate to have to wait a year before I can start enjoying it, and thats early. I've been doing Chilean Merlot from fresh juice and i have an Amarone kit going now to. I really love that the DB can be bottled and enjoyed so quickly! Breaks up the boredom of waiting for the reds to finish. I cant wait for summer cause i feel DB is going to be a great summer drink over ice. I think i will try a tropical DB and was going to start looking at recipes soon. How do you like your tropical? What fruit do you use? Thanks


----------



## mennyg19

The rule on this site is "Pics or it didn't happen"...
[emoji23]


----------



## Casper137

What is peoples average clearing time when not filtering?

https://s27.postimg.org/djnkmzam9/image1_4.jpg
https://s28.postimg.org/z2lp71q0b/image1_6.jpg

I racked these two batches to the carboys on Jan 28 when they hit 1.000

Added 1/2 tsp Potassium Metabisulfate to each and mixed/degassed well
added 2.5 tsp Potassium Sorbate to each and mixed/degassed well
added 1 pack Kieselol to each and mixed/degassed well
added 1 pack Chitosan to each and mixed/degassed well

Other then what cleared in the first 24 hour I am not seeing any more lees falling to the bottom nor it clearing more.

It's odd as the pictures I just posted make it look clearer then it looks in person.

And the farther right one absolutely will not keep liquid in the bubbler. ARGH! it sucks it in everytime I put some in. Maybe the level is too high?


----------



## Stevelaz

I racked, added chems, degassed, and added super klear two days ago and its quit clear now. According to my notes from my last batch, i racked and back sweetened a bit more that a month after adding super kleer. Im not sure that is correct. I seem to remember racking a week or 2 after, then letting it clear further, but i may be wrong. 

Anyhow my last batch was started Nov.1, 2016 and bottled Dec 23. Tried at Christmas and it was very good! Last weekend it was excellent! 

Here is a pic of current batch.... I put in front of patio door to get a better look at it.


----------



## willie

Stevelaz said:


> Thanks Will. Yes, I'm having fun making DB especially since my first batch, that was bottled before xmas, got raving reviews by most who tried it! I took 2 bottles this past weekend to a club i belong to see what the heavy drinkers thought of it. lol. needless to say they were both gone withing half hour!
> 
> Ive only been in this hobby for a few years now and hate to have to wait a year before I can start enjoying it, and thats early. I've been doing Chilean Merlot from fresh juice and i have an Amarone kit going now to. I really love that the DB can be bottled and enjoyed so quickly! Breaks up the boredom of waiting for the reds to finish. I cant wait for summer cause i feel DB is going to be a great summer drink over ice. I think i will try a tropical DB and was going to start looking at recipes soon. How do you like your tropical? What fruit do you use? Thanks




In making the Tropical DB I use two 4lb. bags of Walmart's Great Value frozen Mixed Fruit and have used their Tropical mix also. I will throw in the fermenter with the bag of fruit a couple of bananas sliced and add a couple of cans Welches 100% frozen white grape juice. The bananas can be thrown in the bag or added to the water. Doesn't seem to mater. Anyways thats how I make it.


----------



## LJC

Hey Everyone,

I have been following the original recipe (with a bit extra fruit) and its been a week since starting to clear and has finished.







I am going to back-sweeten it tomorrow, but I noticed in the directions it says to wait another week after adding the sugar. Is this important if the wine is completely cleared? Is it to ensure fermentation doesn't restart?


----------



## Johnd

LJC said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I have been following the original recipe (with a bit extra fruit) and its been a week since starting to clear and has finished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to back-sweeten it tomorrow, but I noticed in the directions it says to wait another week after adding the sugar. Is this important if the wine is completely cleared? Is it to ensure fermentation doesn't restart?



Yes, and that is a good practice to follow on sweetened wines. If it kicks back in gear in the carboy, you're still in control, if it happens in bottles, you'll have corks blowing and a sticky mess.


----------



## LJC

Have another question in regards to clearing / back-sweetening. 

My DB was super clear after 7 days using Chitosan / Kiesosol so I began to rack off the lees, I am pretty bad at it apparently and sucked up enough to make the wine look cloudy again, after back-sweetening with a simple syrup and stirring it well with the drill attachment the wine is super cloudy again. It has been a couple days and a decent amount of stuff has dropped back down to the bottom but its not anywhere near as clear. Will it clear again on its own in the next week back to its brilliantly clear state? If it doesn't can you add more clearing agents or is that bad?


----------



## Johnd

LJC said:


> Have another question in regards to clearing / back-sweetening.
> 
> My DB was super clear after 7 days using Chitosan / Kiesosol so I began to rack off the lees, I am pretty bad at it apparently and sucked up enough to make the wine look cloudy again, after back-sweetening with a simple syrup and stirring it well with the drill attachment the wine is super cloudy again. It has been a couple days and a decent amount of stuff has dropped back down to the bottom but its not anywhere near as clear. Will it clear again on its own in the next week back to its brilliantly clear state? If it doesn't can you add more clearing agents or is that bad?



It'll clear again, just give it time and don't add any more clearing agents. I occasionally siphon some sediment when trying to get all of the good wine, especially when the sediment is deeper than the anti-sediment tip. It always works out fine.


----------



## bkisel

LJC said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I have been following the original recipe (with a bit extra fruit) and its been a week since starting to clear and has finished.
> 
> I am going to back-sweeten it tomorrow, but I noticed in the directions it says to wait another week after adding the sugar. Is this important if the wine is completely cleared? Is it to ensure fermentation doesn't restart?



In my experience it is a safety measure. I've on occasion back sweetened wines just before bottling with no I'll effect other than making me anxious about whether I made a smart move or not.



I've a friend who always back sweetens just before bottling. John has been making wine for decades this way but he also bulk ages for way longer than I do.

With DB (which I've done a whole bunch of times and know how much sugar to add) I do my back sweetening between the stabilizing and clearing agents.


----------



## Casper137

Casper137 said:


> What is peoples average clearing time when not filtering?
> 
> https://s27.postimg.org/djnkmzam9/image1_4.jpg
> https://s28.postimg.org/z2lp71q0b/image1_6.jpg
> 
> I racked these two batches to the carboys on Jan 28 when they hit 1.000
> 
> Added 1/2 tsp Potassium Metabisulfate to each and mixed/degassed well
> added 2.5 tsp Potassium Sorbate to each and mixed/degassed well
> added 1 pack Kieselol to each and mixed/degassed well
> added 1 pack Chitosan to each and mixed/degassed well
> 
> Other then what cleared in the first 24 hour I am not seeing any more lees falling to the bottom nor it clearing more.
> 
> It's odd as the pictures I just posted make it look clearer then it looks in person.
> 
> And the farther right one absolutely will not keep liquid in the bubbler. ARGH! it sucks it in everytime I put some in. Maybe the level is too high?




As stated above I racked these two batches on Jan 28 and added everything I stated above.

Never really cleared too much.

A lot of lees fell to the bottom over the next week or so.

On Monday although not clear I racked to fresh carboys (leaving the lees behind obviously) to see if it would clear.

Still not clear 4 days later.

Very very little bubbles when I racked this time so I think I degassed sufficiently the first time.

Should I add another package of Chitosan and Kieselol and degas again?


----------



## Stevelaz

Im not sure it matters but i thought it was supposed to be totally degassed *before* adding clearing agents. Id make sure its degassed well before adding anymore clearing agents.. Im on my second batched of DB and both cleared very well after adding Superkleer/Duelfine. I also found you have to be very careful racking after clearing. Its very easy to get the crap at the bottom to mix back in. What i do is put a light behind the carboy so i can see clearly into the DB. I then rack holding the racking cane about half way down and let it down slowly until just above the cloudy sediment on the bottom, then stop. My first batch and this one in the carboy (1 month old) looks clear as day!

Since im here: My second batch i followed the "Dragonette" recipe and doubled the fruit. It seems a lot darker that my first batch where i followed the original recipe. Is that normal due to the extra fruit? I know a lot of you here double and even triple the fruit. The original DB color looks really cool in the bottle. Oh, I also added juice from another bag of triple berry (about 2 cups) when back sweetening. So Maybe that made it darker?


----------



## willie

Stevelaz said:


> Im not sure it matters but i thought it was supposed to be totally degassed *before* adding clearing agents. Id make sure its degassed well before adding anymore clearing agents.. Im on my second batched of DB and both cleared very well after adding Superkleer/Duelfine. I also found you have to be very careful racking after clearing. Its very easy to get the crap at the bottom to mix back in. What i do is put a light behind the carboy so i can see clearly into the DB. I then rack holding the racking cane about half way down and let it down slowly until just above the cloudy sediment on the bottom, then stop. My first batch and this one in the carboy (1 month old) looks clear as day!
> 
> Since im here: My second batch i followed the "Dragonette" recipe and doubled the fruit. It seems a lot darker that my first batch where i followed the original recipe. Is that normal due to the extra fruit? I know a lot of you here double and even triple the fruit. The original DB color looks really cool in the bottle. Oh, I also added juice from another bag of triple berry (about 2 cups) when back sweetening. So Maybe that made it darker?



I usually make the Triple Berry with 6 lbs. or 9 lbs. and noticed the 9 lb. one will be a bit darker due to the added berry's. I maybe wrong but I want to think that it is the blueberry's that give it the darkness. We are clearing a 100% blueberry now and it's very dark in color. 

Will


----------



## Casper137

Disregard the whole not clearing thing I guess.

lol






Maybe it was the tripling of the berries.

Maybe it was the weird angle of sunlight.

Maybe it was the thickness of the carboy.

I don't know but I pulled a bottle and it was crystal clear in the bottle.

Added 2 tablespoons of sugar as that would equal about 2.5 cups for the 17 litres in the carboy (notice the headspace).

^^ this was the amount of sugar backsweetening I had read in this thread.

Wife and I found it way to sweet.

Split the bottle into two bottle and topped them both up which would make it 1 tablespoon per bottle and it was wonderful.

So I think that would equate to about 1.25 cups of sugar for 17 litres.


One thing I DID notice was when shaking the bottle with my thumb over it after adding sugar there was a constant pressure release every time I removed my thumb telling me there is still some carbonation in the wine.

Hmm ...maybe I should degas again before bottling.


----------



## Floomagoo

Dave, I have been dying to make this wine for a few months now and I'm about to start I have read some people say that it is not fruity enough for them, so when they make it they double the fruit and hold the tannin. As somebody who loves a sttong fruit flavor in my wine, that's what I'm considering doing but as I've never tasted or made this wine before, I thought I would ask you how you think that would turn out.


----------



## gaboy

Whatever happened to Danger Dave? We miss him!!!!


----------



## wineforfun

Floomagoo said:


> Dave, I have been dying to make this wine for a few months now and I'm about to start I have read some people say that it is not fruity enough for them, so when they make it they double the fruit and hold the tannin. As somebody who loves a sttong fruit flavor in my wine, that's what I'm considering doing but as I've never tasted or made this wine before, I thought I would ask you how you think that would turn out.



You can either 1.5x or 2x the fruit and you will be fine. As far as omitting the tannins, I always put them in and it is still plenty fruity. The key is to use at least 1.5x and when done and bottled, save some back for a few months. The fruit comes forward quite a bit after a few months in the bottle.


----------



## JetJockey

In my testing, I found that 1.5X had almost the same fruit flavor as the 2X and saved some $, i. e. 2X wasn't worth the extra expense for not much different taste.


----------



## bionerd

I just started my first batch today! Really excited!!!


----------



## buckhorn

OK - questions for all you experienced Dragon Slayers. For those that use the larger Brute cans for your fermentation,
1. How long do you leave in the open Brute before placing in a carboy that you can airlock? The SG=1.000 mark or??
2. How do you keep your fruit bags from sinking below the surface so you can access them for their daily squeezin' without having to submerge your arm in the brew?

I grabbed a 41 Qt (10+ gal) can yesterday as the extra fruit made my normal 6+ Gal bucket a little full for my liking. It is not a Brute, but it is Rubbermaid Commercial and is food safe (I researched online and it is a recycle #4 so is supposed to be food safe). My can did not come with a lid and I have it covered with a cloth now, but I don't want to leave it in open ferment too long and mess things up - plan to rack into a 6 gal. carboy at some point when the fruit is out. Also, when I went to pitch yeast today, 1 of my fruit bags (I have 3x 3lb fruit bags = 9 lb fruit) had sunk to the bottom of the can and I had to shove my arm down in to retrieve it. Any way you use to make these stay on top? I was thinking possibly fishing bobbers with string to the bag?

-Brian


----------



## Johnd

buckhorn said:


> OK - questions for all you experienced Dragon Slayers. For those that use the larger Brute cans for your fermentation,
> 1. How long do you leave in the open Brute before placing in a carboy that you can airlock? The SG=1.000 mark or??
> 2. How do you keep your fruit bags from sinking below the surface so you can access them for their daily squeezin' without having to submerge your arm in the brew?
> 
> I grabbed a 41 Qt (10+ gal) can yesterday as the extra fruit made my normal 6+ Gal bucket a little full for my liking. It is not a Brute, but it is Rubbermaid Commercial and is food safe (I researched online and it is a recycle #4 so is supposed to be food safe). My can did not come with a lid and I have it covered with a cloth now, but I don't want to leave it in open ferment too long and mess things up - plan to rack into a 6 gal. carboy at some point when the fruit is out. Also, when I went to pitch yeast today, 1 of my fruit bags (I have 3x 3lb fruit bags = 9 lb fruit) had sunk to the bottom of the can and I had to shove my arm down in to retrieve it. Any way you use to make these stay on top? I was thinking possibly fishing bobbers with string to the bag?
> 
> -Brian



Transferring anywhere around 1.000 will be just fine. 

Once fermentation starts, CO2 will float the bag and you'll have the opposite problem, keeping it submerged.


----------



## jburtner

And spray your hands and arms liberally with kmeta spritz since you will be handling the buttery morsels and juicy nuggets!

Cheers,
-johann


----------



## Floomagoo

Hey y'all, so I ended using the recipe and today my wine is at 1.000 SG. Should I rack it into my carboy today, or should I wait 3 days like the recipe says to? I don't see how waiting the 3 days would make a difference and I'm ready to rack it!


----------



## willie

Floomagoo said:


> Hey y'all, so I ended using the recipe and today my wine is at 1.000 SG. Should I rack it into my carboy today, or should I wait 3 days like the recipe says to? I don't see how waiting the 3 days would make a difference and I'm ready to rack it!



I'm thinking your ferment is not done yet at 1.000 SG. Almost all my ferments go to .990 and I wait 2-3 days with that same reading and then proceed to the next step. You can take your fruit bag out if you haven't. I follow Dave's process very closely. I don't try to hurry our wine making or take short cuts. There is know need to. If you follow Dave's instructions you will have a pretty tasty wine when all is said and done. And remember Dragon Blood takes about 3 months to really start tasting really good. Of course most of us start drinking it sooner than that I would guess. 

Will


----------



## barryjo

Here is a little trick I learned to check whether fermentation is near done. Take a sample with your thief, and holding it at a 45 degree angle, check to see if small bubbles are still rising along the tube. No bubbles = no fermentation.


----------



## Floomagoo

willie said:


> I'm thinking your ferment is not done yet at 1.000 SG. Almost all my ferments go to .990 and I wait 2-3 days with that same reading and then proceed to the next step. You can take your fruit bag out if you haven't. I follow Dave's process very closely. I don't try to hurry our wine making or take short cuts. There is know need to. If you follow Dave's instructions you will have a pretty tasty wine when all is said and done. And remember Dragon Blood takes about 3 months to really start tasting really good. Of course most of us start drinking it sooner than that I would guess.
> 
> Will



Thank you! So since it was at 1.000 on Monday, I should rack it on Wednesday, right? And is there a reason you should leave it for three days?


----------



## JetJockey

I agree that my DB has all fermented below 1. Usually 0.996 with the lowest being just below 0.990 (corrected SG). I monitor the SG daily and when it doesn't change for 3 days. The reason to wait 3 days is that you are nearing the completion of fermentation and it is slowing down. At this slow rate, it may take a couple days to show a small drop. Waiting 3 days at a stable SG ensures fermentsion is truly complete..


----------



## willie

JetJockey said:


> I agree that my DB has all fermented below 1. Usually 0.996 with the lowest being just below 0.990 (corrected SG). I monitor the SG daily and when it doesn't change for 3 days. The reason to wait 3 days is that you are nearing the completion of fermentation and it is slowing down. At this slow rate, it may take a couple days to show a small drop. Waiting 3 days at a stable SG ensures fermentsion is truly complete..



Excellent JetJockey. 

Will


----------



## Floomagoo

Thanks for the help guys! I am leaving town Thursday afternoon, so I will keep an eye on the sg, but will have to rack it Thursday morning before I leave. I figure by then the sg will be stabilized anyways 

Willie, I've read through most of this thread and you've been here since the beginning! You must really like DB! How has your recipe changed from Daves over time?


----------



## willie

Floomagoo said:


> Thanks for the help guys! I am leaving town Thursday afternoon, so I will keep an eye on the sg, but will have to rack it Thursday morning before I leave. I figure by then the sg will be stabilized anyways ��
> 
> Willie, I've read through most of this thread and you've been here since the beginning! You must really like DB! How has your recipe changed from Daves over time?



Well I have 3 or 4 copies of Dave's pfd file and I follow it right along. We just finished bottling Dave's original 6lb. Wyman's Triple Berry. I stick right to Dave's process and just make different fruit flavors from that. Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart is very good. 

Will


----------



## Floomagoo

And so the problems begin. I siphoned my wine into the six gallon csrboy and what do you know, the thing isn't even full. The top of the wine comes up to 4-6 inches of the top. I'm thinking I will top it off with more berry juice, and some water. Would that be a mistake?


----------



## wineforfun

Floomagoo said:


> And so the problems begin. I siphoned my wine into the six gallon csrboy and what do you know, the thing isn't even full. The top of the wine comes up to 4-6 inches of the top. I'm thinking I will top it off with more berry juice, and some water. Would that be a mistake?



Couple of things to keep in mind for the future.
A. keep an extra bottle or two of DB around for topping up
B. Make a little more than 6 gal. to start with so you will have "topping" up wine left from the beginning.

With that said, my first suggestion would be to rack down to a 5 gal., 3 gal. + 1 gal., etc. carboys if you have them available.
If not, then you could do as you mention or if you want to add wine to it, get some white zinfandel to top up with.


----------



## barryjo

Floomagoo said:


> And so the problems begin. I siphoned my wine into the six gallon csrboy and what do you know, the thing isn't even full. The top of the wine comes up to 4-6 inches of the top. I'm thinking I will top it off with more berry juice, and some water. Would that be a mistake?



You might try this. Do you have a 6 1/2 gallon fermenter? Siphon to that, add an airlock and relax. As long as outside air doesn't enter, you are good. Another solution which I use is to insert an appropriate size stopper in the carboy, add the barrel from a Bic pen ( a 2-piece airlock will also work. Just remove the top)) and suitable plastic tubing, The other end goes into a container with K-meta.


----------



## Selleck

Just bottled my first batch of DB. I'm a cider guy and this is the first fruit wine I have made. From pitch to bottle in 12 days!

I changed up the recipe a little bit (and metric'd it). For those interested:

500 ml Lemon Juice
900 g Grape Concentrate
4 kg Table Sugar
3 kg Frozen Berry Mix (Raspberry, Blackberry, Redcurrant, Blackcurrant)
300 g Frozen Blueberries
50 g White Oak Chips (Raw)
5 tsp Pectolase
5 tsp Tronozymol
Water to 23 Litres
1 Packet EC-1118 Yeast

I like fairly dry wines so I only back sweetened to 1.002. Tastes pretty good already like a crisp white wine. I expected the fruit flavours to emerge over time.


----------



## jumby

Pic of 6 gallons of "berry" and 6 gallons of "tropical" that I need to get bottled....


----------



## jumby

6 gallons of "berry" and 6 gallons of "tropical" that I need to get bottled....


----------



## pip

Although i can't confess to having read every post of these 407 pages (wow) i've read a hell of a lot of them. I love DB style wines, they're my drink of choice. My one gripe with the original recipe is the use of k-meta at the end of the primary rather than at the start. I've tried both methods and i've run into problems when the primary ferment is slow (for whatever reason). I've had way more success with adding it at the start, waiting 24 hours and then basically following the recipe procedures from there. Thoughts?

ps, if this has been covered in this gargantuan and wonderful thread already let me know and i'll read through it.


----------



## Ambugaton

I have a batch of dragon's blood going right now. It's been fun reading through here and making notes as I go. Last night SG was 1.012 so we are getting close. I think this is day 8, slightly slower fermentation than others. My garage is not temp controlled and accidentally let the must temp drop down to 68 for a day. Oh well, yeast is still strong and bubbly. 

I have a quick question - Would it be disrespectful to not call this Dragon's Blood if I decide to print labels? I live in Alaska and I found it fitting to call it "Bear Blood"

Leaving town here in a couple days. Hope I can get it degassed and into secondary before I do! Thanks for all the info in these 407+ pages! Good job Dave


----------



## Ambugaton

pip said:


> Although i can't confess to having read every post of these 407 pages (wow) i've read a hell of a lot of them. I love DB style wines, they're my drink of choice. My one gripe with the original recipe is the use of k-meta at the end of the primary rather than at the start. I've tried both methods and i've run into problems when the primary ferment is slow (for whatever reason). I've had way more success with adding it at the start, waiting 24 hours and then basically following the recipe procedures from there. Thoughts?
> 
> ps, if this has been covered in this gargantuan and wonderful thread already let me know and i'll read through it.


 
I did actually read a response to this question. 

Did you buy your fruit frozen from the grocery store? No need for K meta prior to primary

Is it fresh fruit? K meta needed before primary


----------



## pip

Ambugaton said:


> I did actually read a response to this question.
> 
> Did you buy your fruit frozen from the grocery store? No need for K meta prior to primary
> 
> Is it fresh fruit? K meta needed before primary



Oh, that's interesting, thanks. I didnt know that made a difference. I do both, frozen and fresh (not in the one bucket) depends on whats in season and what isnt. 

I never use frozen produce that has preservatives, just 100% fruit, so why exactly is there a difference?


----------



## Ambugaton

The fresh fruit will have wild yeast that you need to kill before starting primary.


----------



## pip

So the freezing process actually kills wild yeast? Doesnt just cryogenically knock them out until warmed? i guess not...interesting


----------



## Zintrigue

I made a "Cherry Cordial" wine using the dragon blood recipe. Just used dark pitted cherries instead of triple berry mix. Then back sweetened with chocolate liqueur. It's the most dangerous wine I've ever tasted, you can't taste the alcohol.


----------



## Ambugaton

pip said:


> So the freezing process actually kills wild yeast? Doesnt just cryogenically knock them out until warmed? i guess not...interesting



I'm not sure on the science of it. I think in the first 20 pages it is addressed though. I'm no expert that's for sure!!


----------



## Ambugaton

So I have a batch of db. Today it was at 1.002 in primary ( 9 days in primary). I am leaving town tomorrow for over a week... I know bad timing. I racked it into secondary. Do you think it will be fine? I didn't fully degas or add any sorbate/k meta as I want to ferment till dry. Thanks for any info.


----------



## pip

If i were you i'd rack it to the secondary and sleep easy. If it doesnt finish off in a week from 1.002 i'd then use sorbate and be happy with a very slightly off-dry wine. But thats just me, more experienced hands may have a different view of it.


----------



## Johnd

Ambugaton said:


> So I have a batch of db. Today it was at 1.002 in primary ( 9 days in primary). I am leaving town tomorrow for over a week... I know bad timing. I racked it into secondary. Do you think it will be fine? I didn't fully degas or add any sorbate/k meta as I want to ferment till dry. Thanks for any info.



It'll be just fine, enjoy your trip!


----------



## Floomagoo

Got six gallons sitting in a carboy been clearing for about a week. I plan on giving it at least two weeks, but how can I tell when it's done clearing?


----------



## Zintrigue

Floomagoo said:


> Got six gallons sitting in a carboy been clearing for about a week. I plan on giving it at least two weeks, but how can I tell when it's done clearing?



Shine your phone light behind it and get real close to see if there are any particles floating around. My six gallon cleared in three days, oddly, while my one gallon batch took a week and a half.


----------



## Floomagoo

Zintrigue said:


> Shine your phone light behind it and get real close to see if there are any particles floating around. My six gallon cleared in three days, oddly, while my one gallon batch took a week and a half.



Thanks! So I put a flashlight behind it and when I looked in, there didn't seem to be any particles floating around. Does that mean it's as clear as itll get?


----------



## Boatboy24

Floomagoo said:


> Thanks! So I put a flashlight behind it and when I looked in, there didn't seem to be any particles floating around. Does that mean it's as clear as itll get?



Go look at a commercial bottle of Rose wine. Your color might be a brighter red, but the clarity of that Rose is what you're after.


----------



## Floomagoo

Boatboy24 said:


> Go look at a commercial bottle of Rose wine. Your color might be a brighter red, but the clarity of that Rose is what you're after.



Thanks, it's just hard to tell when it's all in the carboy


----------



## Boatboy24

Floomagoo said:


> Thanks, it's just hard to tell when it's all in the carboy



The larger volume certainly adds a challenge.


----------



## willie

Floomagoo said:


> Thanks, it's just hard to tell when it's all in the carboy



We just use a wine thief and put a little in a wine glass and if it looks crystal clear and 7-10 days have passed we back sweeten.

Will


----------



## Zintrigue

willie said:


> We just use a wine thief and put a little in a wine glass and if it looks crystal clear and 7-10 days have passed we back sweeten.
> 
> Will



Sounds solid.


----------



## Floomagoo

Well I just finished a six gallon batch of DB and I'm disappointed to say the least. It's not terrible, but it just sort of tastes like water with a slight berry flavor. It's also a much lighter color than the DB pictured in the recipe.

I was hoping for something nice and fruity. Will the fruit flavor come forward with time? Maybe I should try a dragonette next time?


----------



## Floomagoo

Would it be a mistake to add two or three cans of berry concentrate to give it more flavor?

The only problem I see with that is I've already added sugar, so that could make it too sweet. But unless the flavor is stronger I won't drink it anyways, so is it worth a try?


----------



## Higuchem

​Clearing Issue

I let it clear for 3 weeks but its no where clear except for the bottle neck. I did a transfer to a new carboy which the tubing showed the DB to be clear. I the degassed again which I did have some fizz to address. My basement was 68 degrees when I did it the first time so I hope being 79 degrees hoping I would have better luck driving out the CO2. I then added added additional Super Kleer which resulted additional particulate to drop. Its been three days now since I done that all that and I have a clear bottle neck again and hazy carboy and when using a flash flight I can define the light but that is it. Should I think about adding more pectinase hoping its pectin haze? Any suggestion would be much appreciated.


----------



## Floomagoo

Higuchem said:


> ​Clearing Issue
> 
> I let it clear for 3 weeks but its no where clear except for the bottle neck. I did a transfer to a new carboy which the tubing showed the DB to be clear. I the degassed again which I did have some fizz to address. My basement was 68 degrees when I did it the first time so I hope being 79 degrees hoping I would have better luck driving out the CO2. I then added added additional Super Kleer which resulted additional particulate to drop. Its been three days now since I done that all that and I have a clear bottle neck again and hazy carboy and when using a flash flight I can define the light but that is it. Should I think about adding more pectinase hoping its pectin haze? Any suggestion would be much appreciated.



Get a turkey baster or wine thief and put some of your wine into a cup I couldn't tell if mine was clear or not while in the carboy, but when you put it in a cup it is easier to tell


----------



## Higuchem

Floomagoo said:


> Get a turkey baster or wine thief and put some of your wine into a cup I couldn't tell if mine was clear or not while in the carboy, but when you put it in a cup it is easier to tell



Thanks, will do!!!


----------



## Floomagoo

Higuchem said:


> Thanks, will do!!!



Let us know how it goes!


----------



## Zintrigue

Floomagoo said:


> Let us know how it goes!



I second this. I could very well have this problem next and want to know how it gets resolved. Thanks


----------



## Floomagoo

Back to my issue if anybody has any suggestions.

I just finished my DB today and I'm pretty disappointed. It almost tastes like water with a slight fruit flavoring. It's not terrible, it's just not as fruity and good as I had hoped. Will the taste of the berries come out if I let it age in the bottle for a month or so? Should I add a few cans of berry concentrate to kick up the flavor? What do yall think?


----------



## pip

Floomagoo said:


> Back to my issue if anybody has any suggestions.
> 
> I just finished my DB today and I'm pretty disappointed. It almost tastes like water with a slight fruit flavoring. It's not terrible, it's just not as fruity and good as I had hoped. Will the taste of the berries come out if I let it age in the bottle for a month or so? Should I add a few cans of berry concentrate to kick up the flavor? What do yall think?



Hi Floomagoo, i'm a bit obsessed with gelatin (though agar agar is better if you can get it) extracts at the moment, i admit. However, if i wanted to boost the base flavor of my wine that's the way i'd go. There is some sweetness though so that might be a problem if you have an already sweet wine. 

Or perhaps you could make a standard fpac? There's a long and beautifully detailed thread on fpacs on this forum. 

I've made quite a few DBs but i'm in no way an expert, so just offering a few ideas...


----------



## Floomagoo

pip said:


> Hi Floomagoo, i'm a bit obsessed with gelatin (though agar agar is better if you can get it) extracts at the moment, i admit. However, if i wanted to boost the base flavor of my wine that's the way i'd go. There is some sweetness though so that might be a problem if you have an already sweet wine.
> 
> Or perhaps you could make a standard fpac? There's a long and beautifully detailed thread on fpacs on this forum.
> 
> I've made quite a few DBs but i'm in no way an expert, so just offering a few ideas...



Thanks Pip! I'm not sure why there is so little flavor, it really dissapoints me. I will look into fpacks! 

I'm thinking I will try to make my next batch using concentrates instead of berries so that I will have a little more control over the flavor


----------



## Stevelaz

Floomagoo said:


> Back to my issue if anybody has any suggestions.
> 
> I just finished my DB today and I'm pretty disappointed. It almost tastes like water with a slight fruit flavoring. It's not terrible, it's just not as fruity and good as I had hoped. Will the taste of the berries come out if I let it age in the bottle for a month or so? Should I add a few cans of berry concentrate to kick up the flavor? What do yall think?



I made my first DB Oct of last year and bottled right before X-mas. I also thought my first batch of dragon blood lacked the fruit flavor i had hoped for. Others like it tho. I made a second batch this January and did in fact use the Dragonette recipe and doubled the fruit. Much better! However it doesn't have the cool color of the original, its darker. I already have gotten good comments so far on this batch. Also, i recently opened a bottle of the first batch and it was a bit better, so i think it does get more fruit flavor as it ages. I have only been doing 3 gallon batches because i wanted to make sure i liked it before doing a larger batch...Here is a pi of them both..


----------



## Johnd

Floomagoo said:


> Well I just finished a six gallon batch of DB and I'm disappointed to say the least. It's not terrible, but it just sort of tastes like water with a slight berry flavor. It's also a much lighter color than the DB pictured in the recipe.
> 
> I was hoping for something nice and fruity. Will the fruit flavor come forward with time? Maybe I should try a dragonette next time?



Once you have backsweetened it and let it sit for a few months, the fruit will get better. 

My first DB had double fruit, it was OK, kinda light. My second, I tripled the fruit, much better. I'll be making another shortly, in which I'll not be adding any water, straight up triple berry fruit wine..........


----------



## Zintrigue

Floomagoo said:


> Thanks Pip! I'm not sure why there is so little flavor, it really dissapoints me. I will look into fpacks!
> 
> I'm thinking I will try to make my next batch using concentrates instead of berries so that I will have a little more control over the flavor



Did you top off with a lot of water? I found that it really dilutes the flavor. Maybe try adding another pound of fruit (or two) and making 7 or 7.5 gallons to start instead of just six, that way you won't have to top off with water.

You might have gone a little light on the fruit, or perhaps you weren't giving the berries a good squeeze. I put mine in a colander over a bowl (all sanitized, of course) and squished them flat with the base of a large measuring cup.

I'm not a dragon blood pro, these are just things that I've noticed in the scant three batches I've made. Hope it's some help.


----------



## Ambugaton

I am clearing my first batch of DB. I did double the fruit and it really comes through, even at this stage. Starting SG was 1.100 and fermented to .990. Even without back sweetening it, I find it really delicious (although a bit strong haha). I tend to like dry wines, but I think my next batch I will shoot for 11-12% rather than the near 14% this batch is. Very impressed with the color, aroma, and early taste of this. On top of that it is quick and simple... what else could you ask for? No reason not to have this in stock at alllll times.


----------



## Floomagoo

Johnd said:


> Once you have backsweetened it and let it sit for a few months, the fruit will get better.
> 
> My first DB had double fruit, it was OK, kinda light. My second, I tripled the fruit, much better. I'll be making another shortly, in which I'll not be adding any water, straight up triple berry fruit wine..........



I love that no water idea! Where do you buy the juices from? I checked for the concentrates at Walmart and they do not carry any of them! 
Or do you grow your own berries?


----------



## Johnd

Floomagoo said:


> I love that no water idea! Where do you buy the juices from? I checked for the concentrates at Walmart and they do not carry any of them!
> Or do you grow your own berries?



I buy the frozen mix from Sams


----------



## Floomagoo

Johnd said:


> I buy the frozen mix from Sams



How will you get just pure juice? Just going to buy a whole bunch and juice them?


----------



## Johnd

Floomagoo said:


> How will you get just pure juice? Just going to buy a whole bunch and juice them?



Thaw and dump them in my press for a light pressing, then put all of the juice and pulp into a fermenter, adjust sugar and acid, add pectic enzyme, yeast a day later, off to the races.


----------



## jburtner

Johnd said:


> Thaw and dump them in my press for a light pressing, then put all of the juice and pulp into a fermenter, adjust sugar and acid, add pectic enzyme, yeast a day later, off to the races.



How many lbs of berries do you plan / gallon finished?

I might try similar except use either maybe some white grape juice or cider as some liquid filler and honey instead of sugar to raise SG.

I have a good amount of assorted fresh produce fruits (peaches, blueberries, grapes, etc) that I have frozen which I might just combine with more berry blend / honey / grape juice (say no to water!)... It is spring so I see some likely farmer's market trips involved too...

Cheers!
-johann


----------



## Johnd

jburtner said:


> How many lbs of berries do you plan / gallon finished?
> 
> I might try similar except use either maybe some white grape juice or cider as some liquid filler and honey instead of sugar to raise SG.
> 
> I have a good amount of assorted fresh produce fruits (peaches, blueberries, grapes, etc) that I have frozen which I might just combine with more berry blend / honey / grape juice (say no to water!)... It is spring so I see some likely farmer's market trips involved too...
> 
> Cheers!
> -johann



I've not done it this way before, so I can't say for sure how much it will take, but am assuming it will similar/bit higher than grapes per gallon. I'm guessing somewhere in the order of 20 pounds per gallon........


----------



## v8rx7guy

I am working on my first batch of DB per the original instructions. I am down to around 0.994 and the wine is now under airlock in a 6gal carboy. Everything went great except now I am wondering if I used too much sugar in the beginning getting my s.g. up to 1.075. It took maybe 11 or 12 lbs... is that normal? I am thinking maybe it was not all dissolved when i took my s.g. measurements. Can I water it down later if the alcohol content seems too high?


----------



## jumby

v8rx7guy said:


> I am working on my first batch of DB per the original instructions. I am down to around 0.994 and the wine is now under airlock in a 6gal carboy. Everything went great except now I am wondering if I used too much sugar in the beginning getting my s.g. up to 1.075. It took maybe 11 or 12 lbs... is that normal? I am thinking maybe it was not all dissolved when i took my s.g. measurements. Can I water it down later if the alcohol content seems too high?



You are fine. Don't water it down. Your starting SG is actually a little low by my standards. I usually push mine up to 1.080-1.100. Proceed to the next step.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

I'm making a batch using this recipe as a base. We picked 3 flats of strawberries this week and had 5 lbs left over after, so decided to make a batch of fruit wine.

I changed around the recipe a bit, will see how it turns out. This is what I did:

-1 bottle of ReaLemon juice ( 945ml)
-4200g white table sugar (21 cups)
-3tsp yeast nutrient
-1tsp yeast energizer
-3tsp pectic enzyme
-Added water to 23L and stirred to disolve sugar
-SG 1.07

In the nylon brewers bag:
-2200g of fresh sliced strawberries
-600g frozen blueberries
-375g thompson seedless raisins

I let it sit overnight and added the yeast this morning. I'll update as it goes along. My initial SG was lower than the recipe but I have more fruit in it, so I think it will balance out. I didn't have any tanins so added the raisins.
It's at 26L now with the fruit in it. Not as much head space in my 30L bucket as I'd like, so I may have to split some off into a smaller bucket if I get too much foaming during primary.


----------



## maurtis

It has been a while since I made my last batch of DB, got into brewing beer for a while so all my carboys went there. But with a neighborhood potluck coming up I figured some DB would be perfect.

Just backsweetened to a little over 1.005 using 3 cups of sugar (dissolved into water) and racked into a new carboy last night, looking forward to bottling next week. Man, I forgot how beautiful the color is!

I used the original recipe with the following changes Dave recommended a while back:
1/3 cup of untoasted oak powder in primary
3 tsp wine tannin in primary 
3 tsp wine tannin in secondary

BUT, I just did a search and found that I might have added the secondary tannin early. I added it when I racked to clear, not AFTER clearing:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=517730&postcount=1927

"I usually add the finishing tannins after the first racking following clearing. In other words, add the clearing agent, wait at least a week and rack add tannin, three tsp."


No harm I guess, just wondering if the clearing agent (Super Kleer) strips it out?


----------



## Ajmassa

maurtis said:


> It has been a while since I made my last batch of DB, got into brewing beer for a while so all my carboys went there. But with a neighborhood potluck coming up I figured some DB would be perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> Just backsweetened to a little over 1.005 using 3 cups of sugar (dissolved into water) and racked into a new carboy last night, looking forward to bottling next week. Man, I forgot how beautiful the color is!
> 
> 
> 
> I used the original recipe with the following changes Dave recommended a while back:
> 
> 1/3 cup of untoasted oak powder in primary
> 
> 3 tsp wine tannin in primary
> 
> 3 tsp wine tannin in secondary
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, I just did a search and found that I might have added the secondary tannin early. I added it when I racked to clear, not AFTER clearing:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=517730&postcount=1927
> 
> 
> 
> "I usually add the finishing tannins after the first racking following clearing. In other words, add the clearing agent, wait at least a week and rack add tannin, three tsp."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No harm I guess, just wondering if the clearing agent (Super Kleer) strips it out?





Have you used this recipe with the extra tannin before? Ive got a DB cleared and sweetened waiting to tweak and bottle. Can you describe how that extra tannin in secondary tastes in comparison to without it? (That is, If you've done this recipe tweak before)


----------



## maurtis

I have used it before, but last time I made the same "mistake" and put the extra tannin in before clearing, so not sure if it made a difference. Taste-wise to me it was about the same, I mainly put it in to help with my wife's fibromyalgia flare-ups. Supposedly the extra tannin helps with the inflammation. Or maybe just being so easy to drink makes it work to quell the pain, LOL.


----------



## Ajmassa

maurtis said:


> I have used it before, but last time I made the same "mistake" and put the extra tannin in before clearing, so not sure if it made a difference. Taste-wise to me it was about the same, I mainly put it in to help with my wife's fibromyalgia flare-ups. Supposedly the extra tannin helps with the inflammation. Or maybe just being so easy to drink makes it work to quell the pain, LOL.




What kind of wine tannin do you use ? (Aside from the untoasted powder). Powder or liquid? 
Ive only attempted to add "finishing tannin" during aging once before. I just used the generic "wine tannin" powder you see in every LHBS. I got a different suggested amount to add in every website I looked at. In the end I ended up adding too much and the tannin overpowered the wine even months later. Another lesson learned....the hard way, as always. 
Maybe I'll pour some glasses and do some bench trials with this.


----------



## maurtis

I just use the powdered wine tannin from my LHBS. I did not get a overly-tannin dry mouth feel to my last batch, but I backsweeten to semi-sweet so that might have masked it. 

My palate is not very fine anyway, one of my favorite wines that I have made so far has been Skittle Wine, that should say something there


----------



## dallase

GreenEnvy22 said:


> I'm making a batch using this recipe as a base. We picked 3 flats of strawberries this week and had 5 lbs left over after, so decided to make a batch of fruit wine.
> 
> I changed around the recipe a bit, will see how it turns out. This is what I did:
> 
> -1 bottle of ReaLemon juice ( 945ml)
> -4200g white table sugar (21 cups)
> -3tsp yeast nutrient
> -1tsp yeast energizer
> -3tsp pectic enzyme
> -Added water to 23L and stirred to disolve sugar
> -SG 1.07
> 
> In the nylon brewers bag:
> -2200g of fresh sliced strawberries
> -600g frozen blueberries
> -375g thompson seedless raisins
> 
> I let it sit overnight and added the yeast this morning. I'll update as it goes along. My initial SG was lower than the recipe but I have more fruit in it, so I think it will balance out. I didn't have any tanins so added the raisins.
> It's at 26L now with the fruit in it. Not as much head space in my 30L bucket as I'd like, so I may have to split some off into a smaller bucket if I get too much foaming during primary.




I think brix level on your strawberries is much lower than your 1.07 SG mead, so in effect your final SG will be lower than 1.07. In other words, yes you get extra sugars from the fruit, but you also get extra h2o. I would throw
a few more cups of sugar at it to get 1.08-1.085. Otherwise you are making wine coolers.

The EC1118 yeast is a low foamer, I think you should be ok. If you are using
that.


----------



## v8rx7guy

Trying my first glass of dragon's blood tonight. It finished at 0.990 so if my initial s.g. reading was correct I should be sitting at 12%. I just had to sneak some out of the carboy a little early... it is mostly degassed using a vacuum, but a bit gassy still and certainly not perfectly clear yet. 

But still... considering all that, I am very impressed at how tasty this is only 3 weeks after pitching the yeast! I added 1 tsp of sugar to my 1 cup of wine so that is about 0.375 cups /gallon. I might go a little higher such as 0.500 cups / gallon for my batch but dont want it too sweet! Before adding the sugar I tasted mostly lemon, but after the sugar much more fruit flavor.

I am still more of a red wine drinker, but this is a great wine to practice with during the off season! Very pleasant to drink on a hot night.


----------



## Ambugaton

I sweetened my batch to 1.002 and it is great. FYI a bottle at 3 months was significantly better. Trying to resist the urge for a couple more months. It really comes to life with some age though.


----------



## Ambugaton

I also reduced the lemon by half


----------



## GreenEnvy22

dallase said:


> I think brix level on your strawberries is much lower than your 1.07 SG mead, so in effect your final SG will be lower than 1.07. In other words, yes you get extra sugars from the fruit, but you also get extra h2o. I would throw
> a few more cups of sugar at it to get 1.08-1.085. Otherwise you are making wine coolers.
> 
> The EC1118 yeast is a low foamer, I think you should be ok. If you are using
> that.



Thanks, I added 400g more sugar.


----------



## willie

v8rx7guy said:


> Trying my first glass of dragon's blood tonight. It finished at 0.990 so if my initial s.g. reading was correct I should be sitting at 12%. I just had to sneak some out of the carboy a little early... it is mostly degassed using a vacuum, but a bit gassy still and certainly not perfectly clear yet.
> 
> But still... considering all that, I am very impressed at how tasty this is only 3 weeks after pitching the yeast! I added 1 tsp of sugar to my 1 cup of wine so that is about 0.375 cups /gallon. I might go a little higher such as 0.500 cups / gallon for my batch but dont want it too sweet! Before adding the sugar I tasted mostly lemon, but after the sugar much more fruit flavor.
> 
> I am still more of a red wine drinker, but this is a great wine to practice with during the off season! Very pleasant to drink on a hot night.





Oh it will be much better 2-3 months from now. And do yourself a favor and make a batch of skeeter pee soon while it's still summer. I just did the first rack of LemonLime version I got from the people on the skeeter pee thread. Can't wait to try it. 

Will


----------



## Floomagoo

So after being extremely dissapointed with the watery, flavorless taste I got from my first batch of Dblood, I am fighting the urge to try again. 

I am hoping for a very fruity early drinker with about 11% alcohol. Thinking of tripling the fruit and then backsweetening with a couple of quad berry concentrates from Wal-Mart. Would that be a mistake? Any suggestions?


----------



## Ron0126

Ambugaton said:


> I sweetened my batch to 1.002 and it is great. FYI a bottle at 3 months was significantly better. Trying to resist the urge for a couple more months. It really comes to life with some age though.



Agreed. Mine absolutely came to life at 3 months. Was better at 4 and I'm looking forward to 5, 6, 7 ... if it makes it that far.

Started another batch with double the fruit and it already tastes even better.


----------



## PandemoniumWines

Floomagoo said:


> Thinking of tripling the fruit and then backsweetening with a couple of quad berry concentrates from Wal-Mart. Would that be a mistake? Any suggestions?



At that point, wouldn't it just be berry wine with a bit of lemon? It's my impression being light on berries is part of why it can be drunk early.


----------



## Hordak

For back sweetening I've used two berry type of frozen concentrate cans with good luck and a touch more wine conditioner. I try to find the Welch's grape and raspberry frozen concentrate as most of the others are apple based.

This time I'm trying a raspberry and bluebbery f-pac with wine conditioner as a flavour and sweetening boost. I took just over 1/2 lb frozen raspberries and 1/2 pound frozen blueberries and put them in a blender with some of the just racked Dragons Bloodand then dumped them in the secondary (after sorbate addition) and stirred for a few days now I'm gonna let it sit a week then rack and do the clarifying step. Adds an extra week in but no biggy.


----------



## Zintrigue

Floomagoo said:


> So after being extremely dissapointed with the watery, flavorless taste I got from my first batch of Dblood, I am fighting the urge to try again.
> 
> I am hoping for a very fruity early drinker with about 11% alcohol. Thinking of tripling the fruit and then backsweetening with a couple of quad berry concentrates from Wal-Mart. Would that be a mistake? Any suggestions?



I'm still new to this, so take my advice with a grain of salt...

But I always use a little more fruit than the recipe calls for. And then I don't start off with 6 gallons, I do 7 because the bag displaces so much and I hate topping off with water. Another option was to top off with a white zin, which would brighten your end product considerably.

As for backsweetening with another juice concentrate, can't say I've ever tried that before, but I like the idea.

Hope you try again. Do keep us posted.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

Mine was down to .994 so I racked to secondary last night, Used the AIO and got lots of CO2 out.. Adjusted free SO2 to 35ppm. Once my filtering stuff arrives I'll run it through the filters. I hope to bottle at least a couple bottles by the end of July,and let the rest age for a few months.


----------



## Mk54321

First DB batch started.


----------



## Johnd

Mk54321 said:


> First DB batch started.



Also your first post, welcome aboard!


----------



## dangerdave

*Quick visit!*

Just wanted to give a shout-out to everyone still experimenting with the DB recipe. I'm still making a lot, loved by friend and foe alike!

My "perfected version" has some extra tannin, and a shot of untoasted oak powder in the primary.

Just as a note: After years of experimenting and 100 batches, it seems that more flavor is extracted from the fruit at the upper end of fermentation temps. I use various brew belts to keep mine nice and warm during primary fermentation. I get a great fruity aroma, flavor, and color with just one pound of fruit per gallon---yet still a subjective observation.

Keep up the great wine making, and share the recipe!

Dave


----------



## Mk54321

3 Gallon Batch of DB
June 28th Wed Dragon Blood Wine phase 1 [email protected] 4:00 pm
Wait till tomorrow 24 hours to add yeast
Initial hydrometer reading 1.075 as expected with 5 pounds of sugar

Hydrometer reading 1.080 with extra 3/4 cup of sugar added
Temp of liquid 81%

Retake readings every 24 hours

June 29
9am reading 1.090 temp of liquid 71.7%
4pm reading 1.090 temp of liquid 70.8%
Target ~12% ABV
Prepaid yeast
Squeeze fruit bag, remove bag
Add yeast 
Stir with power drill

June 30
9:00am reading 1.074 temp 73.5%

July 1 
9:00am reading 1.055 temp 73.4%

July 2
10:30am reading 1.031 temp 76.0%

July 3
11:00am reading 1.010 temp 73.0%

July 4
9:30am reading 1.000 temp 74.7%

July 5

July 6....potential ready to rack Dragon Blood Wine into clear carboy
Sanitize bucket
Rack back into bucket then proceed to degas, etc
Then rack back into carboy and let stand for at least a week


----------



## Mk54321

Test avatar...


----------



## willie

dangerdave said:


> Just wanted to give a shout-out to everyone still experimenting with the DB recipe. I'm still making a lot, loved by friend and foe alike!
> 
> My "perfected version" has some extra tannin, and a shot of untoasted oak powder in the primary.
> 
> Just as a note: After years of experimenting and 100 batches, it seems that more flavor is extracted from the fruit at the upper end of fermentation temps. I use various brew belts to keep mine nice and warm during primary fermentation. I get a great fruity aroma, flavor, and color with just one pound of fruit per gallon---yet still a subjective observation.
> 
> Keep up the great wine making, and share the recipe!
> 
> Dave





Happy to see your still around and making DB. Thanks for the info. about your experimenting. We will be starting a new Triple Berry batch and I will add a little more tannin and a shot of oak chips. Jacking up the temp. will be an easy thing to do. Thanks.

Will


----------



## bear6230

hi all i stared my first batch of triple berry blood on 6/10 and i already backsweeten on 7/1.
the wine already has an awesome flavor. Checked today i have not an ounce of sediment that i can see so i must done something right or it beginners luck..lol
hoping to bottle this weekend
i stole some 7/2 and put frozen berries in it with a few ice cubes... i gotta get another batch going I dont think this will one will make it far....


----------



## Mk54321

Dave...from an earlier post you stated..
My current "perfected version" calls for the addition of 1/3 cup of untoasted American oak in the primary and three tsp of finishing tannin near the end, in addition to everything else in the recipe. This was after nearly three years of tasting and testing.

Your latest posting ...has a few changes...
A shot of oak power and some extra tannins.
Also using a brew belt..

A few questions..
What temp do you target for fermentation?
Any further details on how much oak ...a shot of oak power ?
and how much additional tannin?

Thanks for sharing your experience.


----------



## willie

bear6230 said:


> hi all i stared my first batch of triple berry blood on 6/10 and i already backsweeten on 7/1.
> the wine already has an awesome flavor. Checked today i have not an ounce of sediment that i can see so i must done something right or it beginners luck..lol
> hoping to bottle this weekend
> i stole some 7/2 and put frozen berries in it with a few ice cubes... i gotta get another batch going I dont think this will one will make it far....



Gotta say you are absolutely right about getting another batch started right away. I am a small wine maker and have 4 different wines bottled right now and the one that runs out 1st is usually the Triple Berry. The only other one that gets drank and given away as fast is the 100% Raspberry DB.

Will


----------



## Boatboy24

dangerdave said:


> Just wanted to give a shout-out to everyone still experimenting with the DB recipe. I'm still making a lot, loved by friend and foe alike!
> 
> My "perfected version" has some extra tannin, and a shot of untoasted oak powder in the primary.
> 
> Just as a note: After years of experimenting and 100 batches, it seems that more flavor is extracted from the fruit at the upper end of fermentation temps. I use various brew belts to keep mine nice and warm during primary fermentation. I get a great fruity aroma, flavor, and color with just one pound of fruit per gallon---yet still a subjective observation.
> 
> Keep up the great wine making, and share the recipe!
> 
> Dave



Good to see you Dave!!!


----------



## bear6230

Dragon Blood clearing nicely can see baby picture through carboy. 
Thanks Dave for this wonderful recipe...


----------



## sour_grapes

dangerdave said:


> Just wanted to give a shout-out to everyone still experimenting with the DB recipe. I'm still making a lot, loved by friend and foe alike!
> 
> My "perfected version" has some extra tannin, and a shot of untoasted oak powder in the primary.
> 
> Just as a note: After years of experimenting and 100 batches, it seems that more flavor is extracted from the fruit at the upper end of fermentation temps. I use various brew belts to keep mine nice and warm during primary fermentation. I get a great fruity aroma, flavor, and color with just one pound of fruit per gallon---yet still a subjective observation.
> 
> Keep up the great wine making, and share the recipe!
> 
> Dave



Good to hear from you, Dave! How are you faring?


----------



## bear6230

Enjoying a cold cup (actually 3rd cup) of my Dragon Blood that i had to steal from my carboy its been backsweeten for over a week now and i have no sediment what so ever so gonna bottle this weekend.
I used 9lbs of berries so it has a BERRY Good color and the taste is excellent. 
Can't wait to to taste it in a few months if it lasts that long it was a hot and humid day here in PA and was looking forward to a taste of it after work. 
I was going to try the the tropical version next buttt i may have to make another batch of this before i run out.
I'M HOOKED ON IT NOW...LOL
I did put some frozen triple berries in the cup and put the DB on top the berries take on the flavor and give you a nice lil treat at end !


----------



## bear6230

Is this considered a port then when you add oak?
Sorry for dumb question if it is one I'm kinda new to wine makin.


----------



## sour_grapes

bear6230 said:


> Is this considered a port then when you add oak?
> Sorry for dumb question if it is one I'm kinda new to wine makin.



No, the defining characteristic of a port-style wine is _fortification_. A distilled liquor (typically brandy) is added to the wine to get the ABV to about 20%. This is higher ABV than yeast can tolerate, so such a fortified wine will be shelf-stable even if there is some residual sugar there.

Most ports are oaked, but many non-port-style wines are also oaked.


----------



## Ron0126

bear6230 said:


> I'M HOOKED ON IT NOW...LOL
> I did put some frozen triple berries in the cup and put the DB on top the berries take on the flavor and give you a nice lil treat at end !




Nothing quite like making your own!


----------



## GreenEnvy22

I took a sample today from mine out, and the pH is at 2.93. It's still fermenting a bit in the carboy, even though it had been down to .994 before I racked it.

Should I be concerned? there doesn't seem to be a lot of flavour. I'm thinking I might add some juice concentrate to it.

Any suggestions?


----------



## willie

GreenEnvy22 said:


> I took a sample today from mine out, and the pH is at 2.93. It's still fermenting a bit in the carboy, even though it had been down to .994 before I racked it.
> 
> Should I be concerned? there doesn't seem to be a lot of flavour. I'm thinking I might add some juice concentrate to it.
> 
> Any suggestions?



The only concern I believe you should have is to make sure the ferment is totally stopped before Sorbate and K Meta. You will know that the ferment has stopped when you get 2-3 days of the same SG reading in a row. Like .990 x 3 days. As for the flavor it won't come into it's own till the 2nd or 3rd month after you back sweeten the batch. And then look out you should be impressed. 

Will


----------



## Boatboy24

GreenEnvy22 said:


> I took a sample today from mine out, and the pH is at 2.93. It's still fermenting a bit in the carboy, even though it had been down to .994 before I racked it.
> 
> Should I be concerned? there doesn't seem to be a lot of flavour. I'm thinking I might add some juice concentrate to it.
> 
> Any suggestions?



If there is a lot of CO2 in your wine (and there most likely is if it is still fermenting), it can throw off your pH meter. Wait until the wine is done, clear and degassed. Then measure again. Remember also: when you sweeten, the perception of acid will diminish. I just bottled a kit that was at 2.98, but you'd never guess, since it is a sweet wine.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

Thanks folks


----------



## bear6230

Bottled my first batch of Dragon Blood this morning. 
For my first time i don't think they look to bad.
Time to start another batch only got 21 bottles cause couldn't help myself from drinking it from carboy..lol


----------



## willie

bear6230 said:


> Bottled my first batch of Dragon Blood this morning.
> For my first time i don't think they look to bad.
> Time to start another batch only got 21 bottles cause couldn't help myself from drinking it from carboy..lol



Well done Bear. I remember when I first started making DB Danger Dave would say as soon as you free up your fermenter get another started cause if you like the stuff it surely won't last long. And of course you may want to gift a few bottles to friends and family. I have 2 great nephews who never liked wine but they love the DB & the Skeeter Pee we make. 

Will


----------



## Commoncandi1

I was referred to this recipe (I'm a complete and utter newbie) I'm both nervous and excited to start my newest adventure thanks for a detailed recipe


----------



## dangerdave

Since some of you have asked, I am doing very well. Eat, drink, and be merry! I'm two and half years into retirement and loving every day. After my 1000 mile hike in 2015---and the long healing process that followed---I began the work on my house, which continues unabated. I still get some time to make wine, hike, and ATV, but my wife, Johnna, keeps me very busy. Last year was shingles and siding. This year is a new deck and landscaping. So, with all that, plus maintaining our home and property, and caring for a disabled wife---who always tries to do too much---I don't get much time on the computer anymore. I really miss hanging out here and talking wine, but I've got stuff to do!

But to answer a few questions from Mk54321...

_What temp do you target for fermentation? 
Any further details on how much oak ...a shot of oak power ?
and how much additional tannin?_

I currently make my DB in a 32 gallon food grade plastic Brute trash can. It sits on a wooden pallet so it's up off the floor. I make three batches at time (18 gallons), simply tripling the ingredients. In addition to the items listed in the recipe, I add 9tsp of wine tannin (3tsp per three batches), and one cup of untoasted American oak (1/3 cup per three batches). All in the primary. Fruit goes in three bags (actually cheap disposable lady's stockings), and everything gets stirred daily with a drill and whip. As for the Temp; I don't even check anymore except by feeling the sided of the fermenter. I use both of my brew belts on the Brute and wrap it with a thermal blanket. There has been times when I thought it had gotten very warm---likely the upper 80s(F)---but it turned out fine. It's easy enough to shut down one of the brew belts if necessary. I noticed, after doing many such batches that at higher temps, that the wine had more color and flavor. Maybe the extra tannins and oak are helping as well.

It's raining and I'm filtering some wines today, so I had a few minutes to check up on you guys/gals. Keep up the good work, everyone! I hope to check back in soon, but if I dont, shoot me an email: [email protected]


----------



## Mk54321

Thank you for the feedback.


----------



## Javaslinger

This looks amazing and will be my wife and I first foray into wine making!

We come from a homebrew background and I'm shocked you don't put a lid on the fermenter with a bubbler? Is it simply unnecessary? Will it hurt anything if I do?

Thanks!


----------



## willie

Javaslinger said:


> This looks amazing and will be my wife and I first foray into wine making!
> 
> We come from a homebrew background and I'm shocked you don't put a lid on the fermenter with a bubbler? Is it simply unnecessary? Will it hurt anything if I do?
> 
> Thanks!



Some of us like to use a towel so the fermenter can get more air v's putting a lid on. It also keeps those pesky fruit files out of the wine. Using a lid just may slow the ferment down some that's all. 

Will


----------



## bear6230

Since my first batch of Dragon Blood is almost gone it was necessary to fire up a another batch also started a batch of the tropical version
My first batch DB was a hit amongst my friends so i had stash a few bottles for aging that is if i can stay away from them long enough for the next batch gets done.


----------



## wineforfun

bear6230 said:


> Since my first batch of Dragon Blood is almost gone it was necessary to fire up a another batch also started a batch of the tropical version
> My first batch DB was a hit amongst my friends so i had stash a few bottles for aging that is if i can stay away from them long enough for the next batch gets done.



Did you use lime juice with your tropical version or stay with lemon?


----------



## bear6230

i used pineapple juice with the tropical...today is the third day with .990 gonna rack it today maybe.
the DB in the other bucket still fermenting slow only at 1.010 today.
the tropical smells amazing cant wait till its done


----------



## byronyasgur

My dragon blood ( also my first wine) is at the end of fermentation having been stable at 995 for 3 days. I'm about to transfer it to carboy now and adding sorbate and finings. Tbh the wine tastes great but its way to acidic and tart to my taste. Does this calm down over the next week or two or is there anything i can do with it. I followed the recipe and it's a pity because i can't imagine drinking more than a small glass at a time.


----------



## Ron0126

byronyasgur said:


> My dragon blood ( also my first wine) is at the end of fermentation having been stable at 995 for 3 days. I'm about to transfer it to carboy now and adding sorbate and finings. Tbh the wine tastes great but its way to acidic and tart to my taste. Does this calm down over the next week or two or is there anything i can do with it. I followed the recipe and it's a pity because i can't imagine drinking more than a small glass at a time.



Yes. It will calm WAY down over a few weeks and even more over a few months.


----------



## PandemoniumWines

backsweetening will take care of a lot of that as well, but time too.


----------



## byronyasgur

Ron0126 said:


> Yes. It will calm WAY down over a few weeks and even more over a few months.





PandemoniumWines said:


> backsweetening will take care of a lot of
> that as well, but time too.



Thanks - that's good to know. 

I am adding the kieselsol later today and the directions say to afterwards fill to near the top of the carboy with water - but I did a one gallon batch and my trial jar is about 100ml so I lost about a bottle of wine's worth ( about 0.75 quart ) in testing, which is a higher percentage of a one gallon than a 6 gallon. I'd be adding something like 25% water to the wine. I don't know what the purpose of filling the carboy up is or whether it's important but dont want to dilute my wine with water ( or some cheap wine as in the recipe ) unless I really should for some technical reason like headspace or something. What is the purpose of topping up the carboy.


----------



## JetJockey

You are correct, adding H2O decreases the headspace. The headspace is amount of air in contact with the surface area of the wine. The more air in contact with the wine, the more chance of oxidation and bad taste. Always top off the wine so there is not excessive air. This usually means top up to the skinnier neck of the bottle or carboy. A like wine will not water your wine down and won't change the flavor if only adding small quantities. Adding a little water will not affect the taste or alcohol content. An alternative is to use Vacuum man's headspace eliminator if you have the All-in-one wine pump. (Best piece of equipment I added to my wine stuff!)


----------



## byronyasgur

JetJockey said:


> You are correct, adding H2O decreases the headspace. The headspace is amount of air in contact with the surface area of the wine. The more air in contact with the wine, the more chance of oxidation and bad taste. Always top off the wine so there is not excessive air. This usually means top up to the skinnier neck of the bottle or carboy. A like wine will not water your wine down and won't change the flavor if only adding small quantities. Adding a little water will not affect the taste or alcohol content. An alternative is to use Vacuum man's headspace eliminator if you have the All-in-one wine pump. (Best piece of equipment I added to my wine stuff!)



thanks - I did a bit of reasearch on this since posting and I understand better now - but in my case I'd be adding about 25% - so since I was thinking of backsweetening this with some apple juice that I have that is really nice and natural and has similar notes in some ways to the wine - I was wondering about making an apple juice water mix and doing some of the backsweetening at this point rather than adding that amount of water - would that work - I think for future batches I need a better technology or technique but what's the best way to save this one. Cheap wine is not really an option tbh - we dont really get cheap wines in ireland due to the way the taxation works - the cheapest ones are fairly good - I could put one or two of those in it but it's not really what I wanted to do and it's not particularly cheap either


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## JetJockey

Can you find a smaller carboy/secondary? I often have to downsize from a 6 gal to a 5 or have used multiple 1 or 1/2 gal bottles as secondaries for bench trials.


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## Ajmassa

You can have some headspace with this wine without hurting it as long as you properly added the K-meta. I recently made a 5 gallon batch. I made it heavy so I could have an extra jug along with my 5 gal Carboy so I could top up with. 
After fermentation I had a 5 gal carboy, a 1.5 liter jug and a 1 liter jug all filled up. After racking, stabilizing and clearing and racking again I was left with about 4.25-4.5 gal in the carboy. Lotta headspace. Got sloppy in my racking and Lost a lot with the lees, as well as a good portion used to determine how much I would sweeten. 
I let it sit an extra week like that before I got to putting on the headspace eliminator and sitting for 6 more weeks. As long as your batch is sulphited it could last another month of aging with headspace. Many will disagree with this, but I know it to be true. 
Topping up protects the wine. 
Adding k-meta protects the wine
Having both is sure fire way to know it's protected. But this isn't wine that needs to age long and you can get way with it on dragons blood aging a month or so after clearing. 
Make sure it's got k-meta, and don't push the time on aging too long and just bottle when she's looking clear and I think you will be fine. But obviously if you have access to a proper sized vessel that would be the preferred route.


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## byronyasgur

thanks - yes was thinking along those lines - It was only a gallon and it's less now with testing so if it's nice it will be gone really quick and it's my first wine so it's not like I'm trying to win awards - I don't think I'll fuss over it and if the worse comes to the worst I'll have experience. In the future yea I'll do it different - rather than get a smaller carboy I'll probably just use a bigger bucket and make 1.5 gallons or something like that ... all part of the fun. The beauty with this wine is the ingredients are pretty cheap so it's not like spending a fortune on a premium kit.


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## Ajmassa

byronyasgur said:


> thanks - yes was thinking along those lines - It was only a gallon and it's less now with testing so if it's nice it will be gone really quick and it's my first wine so it's not like I'm trying to win awards - I don't think I'll fuss over it and if the worse comes to the worst I'll have experience. In the future yea I'll do it different - rather than get a smaller carboy I'll probably just use a bigger bucket and make 1.5 gallons or something like that ... all part of the fun. The beauty with this wine is the ingredients are pretty cheap so it's not like spending a fortune on a premium kit.




Yea man you've got the right outlook. 1st batch, 1 gal, cheap ingredients. Even tho it's just <1 gal do you still plan to bottle it up after? You should so it stays good while you drink it. Even if it's just re-used screw cap bottles. 
You could read online till your blue in the face, but doing a batch firsthand and learning from my mistakes is where I gain the majority of my knowledge. Or fumbling around with something and then using that experience to look up the proper way. Then within a couple batches you can account for things beforehand and plan accordingly.


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## byronyasgur

yea - definitely bottle it - even if it's in the bottle for just a week or two - i need the carboy space anyway - but are used screw capped bottles to be avoided for wines that I plan on storing?


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## bear6230

Need some help from the Tropical version experts plz.
My 6 gallon of tropical is clear as bell with a beautiful color .
Problem is there hardly any fruit flavor what so ever i used 15# of fruit it smelled amazing in the primary.
Is there a concentrate that i could add to pack with some flavor just wondering what would pack a punch.
DB is doing great as usual... lol


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## Ajmassa

byronyasgur said:


> yea - definitely bottle it - even if it's in the bottle for just a week or two - i need the carboy space anyway - but are used screw capped bottles to be avoided for wines that I plan on storing?




Again, people may disagree, but screw cap bottles are perfectly fine to use. We used to solely use them for our wine. Local church donated empty cases of "altar wine" bottles, all with screw caps. 
Never kept em longer than a year or so before drinking. But always worked out just fine. This was also done with....wait for it...... absolutely zero K-meta added to the wine at all. (Not recommended)


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## Redbird1

A year seems like a surprisingly long amount of time for a used screw capped bottle to keep a wine good. I bet a side-by-side with a corked bottle would yield some differences, but as I've learned from the Brulosopher, quite a few long-held tenets have turned out to have minimal impact on finished products, at least when it comes to beer. 

I imagine there would probably be some surprises if someone were to investigate similarly-held beliefs when it comes to winemaking, but the time frames are so much longer to do most of the comparisons, unlike the weeks it takes to evaluate variables when it comes to testing homebrew.


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## Ajmassa

Redbird1 said:


> A year seems like a surprisingly long amount of time for a used screw capped bottle to keep a wine good. I bet a side-by-side with a corked bottle would yield some differences, but as I've learned from the Brulosopher, quite a few long-held tenets have turned out to have minimal impact on finished products, at least when it comes to beer.
> .




I've thought this too. And nobody who drank it had a a very defined palate either. The "relaxed" style they used then to the way I currently make wine are very different. No k-meta at all in the wine (just sanitation), all screw caps some years, only 1-2 rankings after primary. Usually muscat/Alicante blend. 
Agreed side by side there would definitely be some differences. My main point was it didn't go bad by any means- a capped bottle w/o k-meta. That worked for them. We all drank it. And we all enjoyed it. ---I'm not suggesting a year in a capped bottle, or that headspace is fine. I definitely do not want to suggest starting with bad habits. Just saying DB in a capped bottle for a few months won't ruin it. 
All this under the assumption that As you get into it more and spend more money, you'll also research more and want to make a better product.


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## Smok1

My father inlaw has been making fruit wines for 40 years without the use of any k-meta or any other chemicals,he actually thought inwas crazy when he found out i was putting chemicals into my wine. i personally use many products in my wine (kmeta, sorbate, benonite, sparkloid, pectic enzymes, yeast nutrients and energizers) but i will say i have been drinking his homemade wines for years and some of them are up to 3 years old before we drank them, i dont claim to have a refined palate but his "all natural" way of making wines seems to work because they taste great to me and ive never been sick or felt ill after drinking a bottle or 6.


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## Redbird1

I've usually done a handful of my mist kits in screw tops since I know they'll be gone relatively quickly. I don't think I'm brave enough to try it with anything else though. My corker is easy enough and I've got enough cork style bottles to last me for a little while.


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## HeadWatersWine

bear6230 said:


> Need some help from the Tropical version experts plz.
> My 6 gallon of tropical is clear as bell with a beautiful color .
> Problem is there hardly any fruit flavor what so ever i used 15# of fruit it smelled amazing in the primary.
> Is there a concentrate that i could add to pack with some flavor just wondering what would pack a punch.
> DB is doing great as usual... lol



First thing I can think of is how high is your alcohol? If alcohol is too high it numbs the taste buds from flavor. Have you backsweetened it? If not you can try to backsweeten a test amount to see if that brings out flavor. It doesn't take much sometimes.


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## Smok1

How old is it? You need to wait. As with any wine when there done they taste hot/methynly, give it some time to age and that will go away and it will change, the harshness of the abv goes away and the smoothness of the fruit takes over. Wait at least 6 months and i garantee you will be tasting a totally dofferent taste. I made some db but i didnt add much sugar to backsweeten as i dont preffer sweet wines, at first it was very hot, no fruit flavor, i cracked a bottle tonight and it tastes completely different, wonderful, i think its only 3 months now, a little bit of time does wonders for wine.


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## willie

bear6230 said:


> Need some help from the Tropical version experts plz.
> My 6 gallon of tropical is clear as bell with a beautiful color .
> Problem is there hardly any fruit flavor what so ever i used 15# of fruit it smelled amazing in the primary.
> Is there a concentrate that i could add to pack with some flavor just wondering what would pack a punch.
> DB is doing great as usual... lol



Don't know what fruit you used but if it smelled great in the ferment bucket and you used 15 lbs of fruit which is quite a bit then what the other people said about back sweetening and letting it age 2-3 months your wine should be just great. 

Will


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## bear6230

Just backsweetened my 2nd batch of dragon blood.
Used 6 cups of sugar this time tastes pretty darn good needless to say
Tropical batch is coming around getting flavor now. everyone is right patience is the key to this.
Cant wait to bottle this batch of DB i have one bottle left from the first batch and im thirsty... lol
I have 6 gallon of strawberry/raspberry bulk aging bout 3 months now that is clear as a bell looks great but im gonna let that go for awhile.
As long as i have DB for when the STEELERS kickoff this fall ill be happy.....


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## Mk54321

Starting a new batch 6 gallons..
Using quad berry ..strawberry, blueberry, blackberry, raspberry 
10 pounds of sugar vs 20 cups....
Added 20oz of golden raisins in separate Muslim bag
Added frozen concentrate Raspberry/Apple
The above raised the hydrometer reading to 1.090...
Added 2 extra tsp of tannin
Added 1/3 cup American Oak chips to primary

Expecting to ferment to 0.990 for an ABV of 13.13%


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## Mk54321

Wine Log:

Aug 16th Wed 4pm

Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon (or larger) primary, add—in this order:
* 1 bottle (48 oz each) 100% Lemon Juice (ReaLemon in the green bottle): More or less lemon juice can be added to your taste, (i.e., if you want to reduce the acid level use less lemon juice). The acid added here will help balance the final wine. Substitutes include any other kind of citrus juice (orange, lime, etc.), or use no citrus at all for a very soft, supple blush.
* Water to about four gallons
20 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG of around 1.075 after filling to 6 gallons below. This will give you a finished alcohol by volume of about 10%-11%): Add more/less sugar for high/lower desired final ABV. Stir sugar until completely dissolved.
* 1 tsp. tannin (stir)
* 3 tsp. yeast nutrient (stir)
* 1 tsp. yeast energizer (stir)
* 3 tsp. pectic enzyme (stir)

* Top water to six (6) gallons* and stir well
* Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!
* 6 lbs. of Triple Berry Blend (raspberry/blackberry/blueberry--available in most grocery store freezer sections), frozen then thawed, in a fine mesh nylon bag (tied shut), placed in primary (add any extra juice from the fruit as well): Give the bag a couple of squeezes to work in pectic enzyme. You may also toss the fruit directly into primary, but this makes for a "messier" fermentation and subsequently will require more clearing time and further racking. Dozens of variations on this recipe have been created by simply substituting different or combinations of different fruit.
* Cover primary Do not snap down the lid or add an airlock. Cover the lid with a cloth or towel.
* Place brew belt (if desired): Keep temp in 68F-80F range. A higher temp will result in a faster fermentation, and a sharper tasting, more colorful wine. A lower temp will produce a paler blush with more fruity aroma and a smoother taste.
* Let sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours...
Added box of golden raisins in a Muslim bag, 4 berries ,
Added can of concentrated frozen juice raspberry/ Apple
Reading of 1.080 on hydrometer before fermentation...let sit for next 24 hours

10am Thursday Aug 17th
Added additional sugar 2 1/4 cups ...10 pounds total
Added 2 tsp tannin 
Added 1/2 cup American Oak Lite toasted
Reading of 1.090 on hydrometer target 13.13% ABV

Next reading 4pm...start yeast fermentation

Aug 17 4 pm ..reading just before adding yeast
Temp 70.5%
Hydrometer reading 1.090

Step 2: To the primary fermenter, add:
* 1 packet of EC-1118 Yeast (follow yeast manufacturer's directions): Sprinkle yeast into one cup of warm water (100F), let sit for 15 minutes (no longer), stir and add to primary. Other yeast strains also work well. Experiment!
* Stir Primary Vigorously!



Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:
* Uncover primary
* Check and record temperature
* Check and record specific gravity
* Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter and remove fruit pack (The Presser Method): Temporarily place in sanitized bucket or bowl.
* Stir primary vigorously: To introduce oxygen into must, suspend the yeast, and drive off CO2.
* Replace fruit pack in primary
* Cover primary



Aug 18 Thurs
Temp 69.0%
Hydrometer reading 1.085

Aug 19 Sat
Temp 73.6%
Hydrometer reading 1.070

Aug 20 Sun
Temp 76.0%
Hydrometer reading 1.060

Aug 21 Mon 
Temp 71.9%
Hydrometer reading 1.051

Aug 22 Tue
Temp 71.3%
Hydrometer reading 1.010

Aug 23 Wed
Temp 73.0%
Hydrometer reading 1.000

Aug 24 Thurs
Temp 72.0%
Hydrometer reading 0.990

Aug 25 Fri
Temp 72.4% .........remove fruit bags/ do not stir
Hydrometer reading 0.990


Aug 26 Sat
Temp 70.3%
Hydrometer reading 0.990

Transfer to new 6.5 gallon bottle filling bucket with spigot..
filtering thru coffee filter/funnel with measuring cup with spout

Then turn on spigot and fill two 3 gallon car boys and top off with White Zinfandel.



Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000, do the following:>
* Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter—remove fruit pack: Discard fruit. Note: When the specific gravity (SG) has fallen below 1.000, and the fruit bag has been removed, discontinue stirring daily but check the SG and temp daily as before. Proceed from here only when the wine's SG has stabilized below 1.000. A stable SG means that the SG for three consecutive days reveals no change in the SG.
* Uncover primary
* Rack (siphon or drain) the wine into a cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy, leaving the gross lees (the stuff in the bottom of the primary) undisturbed.
* Add ¼ tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (dissolved in half cup cool water) and stir
* Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (dissolved in half cup cool water) and stir
* Degas wine very thoroughly: I cannot emphasize this enough! Gas in the wine will prevent it from clearing quickly.
* Add Sparkolloid* (or other clearing agent) per package directions (stir for 2 minutes): *1 tbs in one cup of water simmered (boiled) for about 5-10 minutes. Add hot mixture directly to carboy and stir.
* If the carboy is not full, add enough cool water to bring the level within two inches of the top opening: Adding a like wine rather than water is preferred. A cheap white zinfandel will work well.
* Add a bung and airlock (filled half way with sulfite solution)
* Allow to clear undisturbed for no less than 1 week.

Sample taste Monday Aug 28...
Good flavor of berries...should be better after back sweating next Sunday if wine is completely clear.

Step 5: When wine is clear:
* Carefully rack off one gallon of wine into a cleaned and sanitized container, and set aside.
* Carefully rack the remainder of the wine off of the lees into a cleaned & sanitized six gallon carboy.
* Add 2-6 cups of white granulated sugar (stir until sugar is completely dissolved): This is where your personal taste comes in. Different people like different levels of sweetness in their wine. My DB is made with ¼ of a cup of sugar per gallon. Remember! The sugars will blend with the lemon and berry flavors over time, and the sweetness will come forward. Do not over-sweeten!
* If carboy is not full, top up within two inches of top of carboy opening with some of the spare gallon of wine
* Replace bung and airlock
* Allow wine to sit quietly for another week.
* 
Sun 12:30pm added 1 1/2 cups of sugar to back sweeten
Hydrometer reading after blending sugar was 1.000
Also added 1 oz of Isinglass to clear more
Used coffee strainer when refilling carboys.

Added another 3/4 cup of sugar..
Hydrometer reading 1.010
Top off last carboy with White Zinfandel




Step 6: If the wine is completely clear:
* Filter if desired
* Bottle in clear bottles (because it's beautiful)
* Note: Never bottle cloudy wine! NEVER!
* Enjoy! This wine is great right from the start! It will, however, improve over time in the bottle. The first few weeks brings a noticeable improvement as the flavors blend and meld, while months will make it smooth and delightful. Be warned, though, it will go quickly.


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## willie

Excellent Mk5 you got it going.

Will


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## jumby

What's the longest everyone has kept bottled dragon blood before drinking? I have some that's a little over a year old and still good. It is losing some of its sweetness at that age.


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## wineforfun

jumby said:


> What's the longest everyone has kept bottled dragon blood before drinking? I have some that's a little over a year old and still good. It is losing some of its sweetness at that age.



I have had them up to 1 1/2yrs. old. No better or no worse than drinking it at 6 months.


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## Buddzy

I just started a 6 gallon batch of dragons blood put in some k-meta and waited 24 hours and pitched my yeast its been a day and haven't seen any activity.


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## Mountainjack

jumby said:


> What's the longest everyone has kept bottled dragon blood before drinking? I have some that's a little over a year old and still good. It is losing some of its sweetness at that age.



I just opened a 2 yr old bottle and didn't notice any difference from when it was 6 mo old.


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## willie

Buddzy said:


> I just started a 6 gallon batch of dragons blood put in some k-meta and waited 24 hours and pitched my yeast its been a day and haven't seen any activity.




Just added yeast to Must yesterday morning and looked at it before bed time and it had started already. But usually it takes a couple of days. I don't use K Meta in the ferment other than sanitizing the equipment before putting it together. 

Will


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## willie

jumby said:


> What's the longest everyone has kept bottled dragon blood before drinking? I have some that's a little over a year old and still good. It is losing some of its sweetness at that age.



Jumby I aged a bottle of DB for 9 months and my wife and I both thought it had lost some flavor compared to a bottle that is say 3,4,6 months old. The reality is our DB just doesn't last more than a 3-4 months thanks to us, friends and relatives who help us drink it. 
I do realize others on this site have a different opinion on aging DB and that's great. As the saying goes if we were all the same life sure would be boring. 

Will


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## Buddzy

Ok guess I'll wait it out I've never had it take so long to start bubbling.


----------



## jumby

willie said:


> Jumby I aged a bottle of DB for 9 months and my wife and I both thought it had lost some flavor compared to a bottle that is say 3,4,6 months old. The reality is our DB just doesn't last more than a 3-4 months thanks to us, friends and relatives who help us drink it.
> I do realize others on this site have a different opinion on aging DB and that's great. As the saying goes if we were all the same life sure would be boring.
> 
> Will



The plan wasn't for mine to last this long. It usually doesn't. I made 24 gallons last summer and we're just now finishing it up.


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## cmsben61

I had one about 2 years old I entered into the Iowa State Fair. 
It won a silver


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## Buddzy

Well it took almost two days to start but now it's down to 1.016 from 1.09 and it's still chugging along. Also looks like I need a new straining bag. Where is a good place to get a new one that's durable for all the squeezing it has to indure.


----------



## willie

Buddzy said:


> Well it took almost two days to start but now it's down to 1.016 from 1.09 and it's still chugging along. Also looks like I need a new straining bag. Where is a good place to get a new one that's durable for all the squeezing it has to indure.



Well our local Hardware store carries them and I have read on here that some use a paint straining bag that works just fine. You can even order one on Amazon. 
Happy your wine is fermenting just fine now. 

Will


----------



## Rosa321

Buddzy said:


> Well it took almost two days to start but now it's down to 1.016 from 1.09 and it's still chugging along. Also looks like I need a new straining bag. Where is a good place to get a new one that's durable for all the squeezing it has to indure.



I don't know why, but my last two batches have had this problem...
Not sure if it's was cooler temperatures, or if it was because I eyeballed the K-meta with a 1tsp measuring spoon (I put in 1/4 of a tsp). Maybe my yeast wasn't "fresh"? (I keep it in the fridge, but I buy it in a 10 pack so it's there a while). 
Like you I've made a bunch of batches (10+) and never had a problem until the last 2. 

Glad it started for you! It's always so nerve-wracking to wait it out and wonder if you're going to lose the whole batch!!


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## Buddzy

Yeah i was getting antsy. I also buy yeast by the ten and keep it in the fridge. Never have had it take longer then an hour or two at most. I just ordered this yeast so it should be fresh. Was starting to think I was going to have to dump it.


----------



## bear6230

I bottled my tropical DB.
Looks very clear. 
The taste is very good my friends and family love it can't wait to taste it in months to come.


----------



## bear6230

Started some dark cherry DB on Monday 
SG 1.090 on Tuesday just before i pitched the yeast.
If its tastes like it smells now I'm in for a real treat when this one is done!!!


----------



## jumby

Buddzy said:


> Well it took almost two days to start but now it's down to 1.016 from 1.09 and it's still chugging along. Also looks like I need a new straining bag. Where is a good place to get a new one that's durable for all the squeezing it has to indure.



Cut the leg off a ladies nylon and use that. Stick to a neutral color like nude. Toss it when you are done.


----------



## jumby

Does anyone have any experience adding oak to this wine? I'm thinking about throwing a medium plus toast French oak spiral in my next batch.


----------



## willie

jumby said:


> Does anyone have any experience adding oak to this wine? I'm thinking about throwing a medium plus toast French oak spiral in my next batch.



Yes Jumby I have. Also Danger Dave has it's use in his Sweet Strawberry Tart recipe. That recipe calls for one cup of oak. 

Will


----------



## jumby

willie said:


> Yes Jumby I have. Also Danger Dave has it's use in his Sweet Strawberry Tart recipe. That recipe calls for one cup of oak.
> 
> Will



In the primary or when aging? I'm thinking about adding a oak spiral when clearing/aging. Is there a noticeable change in body and taste?


----------



## willie

jumby said:


> In the primary or when aging? I'm thinking about adding a oak spiral when clearing/aging. Is there a noticeable change in body and taste?



Yep in he fermentation bucket. And just a personal observation I didn't notice any change. But that's just me. I am no wine connoisseur and I don't believe I have the ability to distinguish subtle taste differences. But I do like to try different ingredients with this hobby. 

Will


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Been ages since I have been around the forum. I still make Dragon Blood or some variation all the time and it is still a delicious addition to my wine collection. I do have a quick question:

I often start with store bought fruit and so don't worry about adding potassium metabisulfite to the must to kill off any wild yeast. However, I just got 30 pounds of home picked fruit from an acquaintance and I don't know how well it was cleaned or taken care of so I have added the sulfite to the must and am waiting the prerequisite 24 hours before adding the yeast. My question is, do you still add the yeast energizer and nutrient when mixing the lemon juice, fruit, etc. (and potassium metabisulfite) or should I wait 24 hours before I add those to the must?


----------



## Buddzy

I would say that you add them when you add k-meta nutrient and energizer and wait the 24 hours.


----------



## mcthomas

Trouble Clearing several batches of wine.. Mostly the Dragon Blood Recipe.. 

Been a while since I have been on here.. 
This is one of my favorite recipes.. I have made it a bunch of times.. It is usually a very fast clearing wine.. 

This time, it is clearing super, super slow.. 
I have thought about it several times while waiting.. I can't think of anything I did different..
If I did, I went back and corrected it and tried it again.. 
Only main difference.. I tried a much finer powdered bentonite clay this time, thinking it would hydrate better than the more granular version I put in a blender and run for 5 minutes and then seep/boil for 15 or 20 minutes, but, I have even gone back and used the original Bentonite and did the blending and seeping and I still am looking at a very, very slow clearing wine.. 

The only other thing I didn't do is stir it daily, like I usually do, so I can't go back and fix that.. But, I am sure I have made a batch without stirring like I should have before.. At least didn't stir it like I should have.. This batch, I didn't stir at all.. Just started it and finished it... 

I am the crazy guy who kills the yeast at the end of Primary(Potassium Sorbate and Metabisulfite), stirs, then pulls a vacuum on his brews to degass,then adds the Bentonite, stirs, and usually the wine clears over night with the bentonite clay mix... I may have one more subsequent racking maybe a week later to keep from having the dust in the bottom of the bottles.. Never any heavy settlements.. 
I make a 12 or 15 gallon batch every year and have never seen it not clear, or this slow clearing before.. 

Anyone have any ideas to clear it quickly?? 

I have 2-6 gallon batches and 1-5 gallon and 2-1gallon batches.. 
I did one "Full Body=6lbs fruit, two with 3lbs fruit=light wine, and the others were different frozen fruit juice mixes I was trying (New Recipes).. 
All but one are having the same problem.. 
The second run, using the older more granular bentonite cleared the other gallon over night, but, not like it usually clears.. 2 Weeks after the second application of bentonite clay, and it just now looks ready to bottle.. Usually, it is overnight.. 

I had a real hard time with a bananna wine one time.. Thought it would never clear.. Read somewhere to use an extract of boiled "Old Bananas", and it worked like a charm.. But, I figured it was for Bananna wines?? 
Ready to try anything to see what works.. Not worried about changing the flavor, etc at this point.. 
Any ideas are very welcome.. I promised 5 gallons of this to a friend for a wedding party... It's making me a bit nervous.. Ha..


----------



## Buddzy

Try super kleer has worked great on everything I've made.


----------



## Zintrigue

Does anyone have experience with an aged DB producing some kind of fluffy sediment? I racked off the final lees, then let it sit for 3 long months. Didn't see any more sediment come down, so then I bottled. Now there's this fluffy stuff in the bottles. I'm peeved, to say the least, and would love to explore why this is happening so that I can put a stop to it. Flavor isn't affected.


----------



## jumby

Zintrigue said:


> Does anyone have experience with an aged DB producing some kind of fluffy sediment? I racked off the final lees, then let it sit for 3 long months. Didn't see any more sediment come down, so then I bottled. Now there's this fluffy stuff in the bottles. I'm peeved, to say the least, and would love to explore why this is happening so that I can put a stop to it. Flavor isn't affected.


I had the same problem when using sparkoloid. Switching to superkleer/Dualfine took care of that problem.


----------



## Zintrigue

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you.


----------



## Ajmassa

Started 5/23. Cleared with dualfine. bottled 7/11. Crystal clear. 
I stashed a few and all have a small amount of fluffy sediment in em now.
Maybe DB is just typically drank before it can occur?


----------



## jumby

mcthomas said:


> Trouble Clearing several batches of wine.. Mostly the Dragon Blood Recipe..
> 
> Been a while since I have been on here..
> This is one of my favorite recipes.. I have made it a bunch of times.. It is usually a very fast clearing wine..
> 
> This time, it is clearing super, super slow..
> I have thought about it several times while waiting.. I can't think of anything I did different..
> If I did, I went back and corrected it and tried it again..
> Only main difference.. I tried a much finer powdered bentonite clay this time, thinking it would hydrate better than the more granular version I put in a blender and run for 5 minutes and then seep/boil for 15 or 20 minutes, but, I have even gone back and used the original Bentonite and did the blending and seeping and I still am looking at a very, very slow clearing wine..
> 
> The only other thing I didn't do is stir it daily, like I usually do, so I can't go back and fix that.. But, I am sure I have made a batch without stirring like I should have before.. At least didn't stir it like I should have.. This batch, I didn't stir at all.. Just started it and finished it...
> 
> I am the crazy guy who kills the yeast at the end of Primary(Potassium Sorbate and Metabisulfite), stirs, then pulls a vacuum on his brews to degass,then adds the Bentonite, stirs, and usually the wine clears over night with the bentonite clay mix... I may have one more subsequent racking maybe a week later to keep from having the dust in the bottom of the bottles.. Never any heavy settlements..
> I make a 12 or 15 gallon batch every year and have never seen it not clear, or this slow clearing before..
> 
> Anyone have any ideas to clear it quickly??
> 
> I have 2-6 gallon batches and 1-5 gallon and 2-1gallon batches..
> I did one "Full Body=6lbs fruit, two with 3lbs fruit=light wine, and the others were different frozen fruit juice mixes I was trying (New Recipes)..
> All but one are having the same problem..
> The second run, using the older more granular bentonite cleared the other gallon over night, but, not like it usually clears.. 2 Weeks after the second application of bentonite clay, and it just now looks ready to bottle.. Usually, it is overnight..
> 
> I had a real hard time with a bananna wine one time.. Thought it would never clear.. Read somewhere to use an extract of boiled "Old Bananas", and it worked like a charm.. But, I figured it was for Bananna wines??
> Ready to try anything to see what works.. Not worried about changing the flavor, etc at this point..
> Any ideas are very welcome.. I promised 5 gallons of this to a friend for a wedding party... It's making me a bit nervous.. Ha..





Another trick is to bottle in amber bottles. I never use clear bottles just for that reason.


----------



## Mofous

Started my wine making journey just this past weekend. Found a bunch of my father in-law's wine equipment so I decided to start up a new hobby. First thing I did was buy a riesling and get that set up (to appease my wife with my new hobby). About 3 days after that started fermenting I came across this recipe for Dragon Blood Wine. So what do I do? Immediately go out to the store to purchase all the ingredients necessary. 

As mentioned I am a complete newbie when it comes to wine..I have a total of 1 week's experience and about 20 hrs of online "research" aka videos and forums.

Day 1 (Sunday) - created the must as per directions and let sit. 
- SG 1.065 prior to adding berries

Day 2 (Monday Afternoon) - squeezed berries/pitched yeast/big stir
- SG 1.072

Day 3 (Tuesday Afternoon) - squeezed/stir
- SG 1.072

So at this point I start wondering what the hell is going on with my yeast..why hasn't it started fermenting? I read through numerous posts and I figure it has to be the temp. I currently don't have a reliable digital reader so I decided that is first thing on my shopping list for Wednesday (today).

I live in near Toronto and our temps are starting to drop...my house is typically 73 degrees so I decided to warm things up a bit and aid my must with bringing it closer to my furnace, wrapped in blankets etc..

Day 4 (Wednesday Morning) - 

I practically jump out of bed this morning to check on things and BOOM! She has started and the fermentation is on its way.... It took roughly 36 hours for things to get going...it was a very long 36 hours. Didn't take a reading this morning because I was in a rush for work. 

Moral of story - measure temp, if you live in Canada a heating belt might be a great investment. Looking forward to my first batch.


----------



## jumby

Or you can buy a cheap aquarium heater and use that,,,,,




Mofous said:


> Started my wine making journey just this past weekend. Found a bunch of my father in-law's wine equipment so I decided to start up a new hobby. First thing I did was buy a riesling and get that set up (to appease my wife with my new hobby). About 3 days after that started fermenting I came across this recipe for Dragon Blood Wine. So what do I do? Immediately go out to the store to purchase all the ingredients necessary.
> 
> As mentioned I am a complete newbie when it comes to wine..I have a total of 1 week's experience and about 20 hrs of online "research" aka videos and forums.
> 
> Day 1 (Sunday) - created the must as per directions and let sit.
> - SG 1.065 prior to adding berries
> 
> Day 2 (Monday Afternoon) - squeezed berries/pitched yeast/big stir
> - SG 1.072
> 
> Day 3 (Tuesday Afternoon) - squeezed/stir
> - SG 1.072
> 
> So at this point I start wondering what the hell is going on with my yeast..why hasn't it started fermenting? I read through numerous posts and I figure it has to be the temp. I currently don't have a reliable digital reader so I decided that is first thing on my shopping list for Wednesday (today).
> 
> I live in near Toronto and our temps are starting to drop...my house is typically 73 degrees so I decided to warm things up a bit and aid my must with bringing it closer to my furnace, wrapped in blankets etc..
> 
> Day 4 (Wednesday Morning) -
> 
> I practically jump out of bed this morning to check on things and BOOM! She has started and the fermentation is on its way.... It took roughly 36 hours for things to get going...it was a very long 36 hours. Didn't take a reading this morning because I was in a rush for work.
> 
> Moral of story - measure temp, if you live in Canada a heating belt might be a great investment. Looking forward to my first batch.


----------



## Mofous

jumby said:


> Or you can buy a cheap aquarium heater and use that,,,,,


\
Never even thought of that...great idea.


----------



## Trick

Zintrigue said:


> Does anyone have experience with an aged DB producing some kind of fluffy sediment? I racked off the final lees, then let it sit for 3 long months. Didn't see any more sediment come down, so then I bottled. Now there's this fluffy stuff in the bottles. I'm peeved, to say the least, and would love to explore why this is happening so that I can put a stop to it. Flavor isn't affected.


That was really a pain. It happens in every bottle of my fruit wine using sparkoloid as clarifier. I suspect sparkoloid is the trouble maker. I am still struggling to figure it out how to deal with it. I am trying a couple of 1 gal batches with bentonite/sparkoloid combination and Chitosan respectively to see which works. Maybe Superkleer is a good solution but I don't have it.


----------



## wineforfun

SuperKleer is your answer. It packs the lees much tighter. That is one of the downfalls of Sparklloid, the "whispies" that appear later in the bottle.


----------



## Trick

wineforfun said:


> SuperKleer is your answer. It packs the lees much tighter. That is one of the downfalls of Sparklloid, the "whispies" that appear later in the bottle.


Agree. Superkleer consists of two part, negatively charged part helps to remove protein and the positively charged part helps to clean up the rest. Just like some clarifier comes with the kits.

I did some reading after my last post and I am guessing that the fluffy sediment is coming from protein, (issue called hot stability.) Negatively charged clarifiers can address this (such as bentonite and Kieselsol). Sparkoloid (positive) alone can make the wine very clear but cannot remove protein. After sometime, protein will polymerize and settle out. That is what exactly happened for all of my fruit wines using sparkoloid as fining agent.

Bentonite and Sparkoloid together might be a solution if SuperKleer is not available.

Here is a link to what I just read:
http://www.gencowinemakers.com/docs/Wine Clarification and Stabilization.pdf


----------



## roboto65

Hi new guy here I have a question about directions, now I am “somewhat” new to the fermenting scene I have been doing it off and on for a while. 
On to my question well maybe a the problem first. I am a Tugboat Capt and work 2 weeks on the boat boat and one week home, so my time is kinda limited to well sort of one week I get off on say a Tuesday and back on a Tuesday so not really one week. 
How can I work around stirring everyday and creeping up on 1.000.
Letting it sit For 2 weeks is no problem not much choice there LOL

I plan on starting the day I get off and crossing my fingers I can it to the point of racking in that week but if not can it sit for the 2 weeks you see my problem LOL.

How’s that for my first post.


----------



## sour_grapes

I think your plan can work. Let's say you have everything set up and ready to go upon your return. You pitch yeast on your Tuesday example. By the next Monday, I think the SG will likely be down to the range where you could transfer to a carboy, say 1.015 or less. In my experience, it will likely be less than 1.008 after a week. That would be fine, especially if your carboy has a little extra room for foam in it.


----------



## roboto65

Thanks well I have a plan would love to make some of this. I have kinda made it but not the fast method I have right now 2 gallon batches going a straight Blueberry and a Blackberry/Blueberry mix both were fermenting away when I caught the boat almost 2 weeks ago so hope to rack them when I get off into some gallon carboys.


----------



## roboto65

Ok well got off to a late start so i have another question I see no problem with it but figured I would ask the experts. Anyhow I started 1/5/18 and did the batch per the instruction everything is fine as of today 1/7/18 the DB is at 1.062 SG at 69° and doing great. I have 2 options as far as I see it now mind you the SG will have dropped some more by tomorrow night. Thinking the 2 options are as follows.
1. Pull fruit bag squeeze one more time and put the lid on with airlock.
2. Rack to Secondary leave some head space and put it under an airlock. 
I will be gone 2 weeks so it will sit for this long either on the gross lees or not if I rack to secondary. What do you guys think?


----------



## Monty Knapp

Hello everyone.
I'm new to the forum, but I'm already into my second 3 gallon batch of Dragon's Blood Wine - and planning a 3rd.

For my third I'm planning all strawberry fruit. Instead of 1 lb of frozen fruit per gallon, I was thinking I should do more - at least 4 lbs for a 3 gallon batch. Or 5 lbs?

Any thoughts or pointers?

Thanks.


----------



## glitch666

Hi guys! New member hear and also just started my very first batch of this wine(3 gallon half batch). I am about to pitch my yeast and I noticed that in the recipe it says use manufactures directions but also use 1 cup of 100 degree water. While my packet of ec-1118 yeast says to use only 2 oz? What would be best since im only doing a 3 gallon batch?


----------



## jumby

I don't rehydrate my yeast. I just sprinkle it on top of the must. I keep my must at constant temp of 76 degrees with an aquarium heater.


----------



## jumby

Monty Knapp said:


> Hello everyone.
> I'm new to the forum, but I'm already into my second 3 gallon batch of Dragon's Blood Wine - and planning a 3rd.
> 
> For my third I'm planning all strawberry fruit. Instead of 1 lb of frozen fruit per gallon, I was thinking I should do more - at least 4 lbs for a 3 gallon batch. Or 5 lbs?
> 
> Any thoughts or pointers?
> 
> Thanks.


I use 1 1/2 pounds of fruit per gallon for all my batches.


----------



## Monty Knapp

glitch666 said:


> Hi guys! New member hear and also just started my very first batch of this wine(3 gallon half batch). I am about to pitch my yeast and I noticed that in the recipe it says use manufactures directions but also use 1 cup of 100 degree water. While my packet of ec-1118 yeast says to use only 2 oz? What would be best since im only doing a 3 gallon batch?


I'd follow the yeast packet directions, but it probably wouldn't really make any difference.


----------



## Trick

Monty Knapp said:


> I'd follow the yeast packet directions, but it probably wouldn't really make any difference.


The difference it can make is that you can identify the dead yeast and save a few frustrating days to wait and wait for a fermentation that never starts.

I experienced once and from then on i always rehydrate the yeast.


----------



## Monty Knapp

Trick said:


> The difference it can make is that you can identify the dead yeast and save a few frustrating days to wait and wait for a fermentation that never starts.
> 
> I experienced once and from then on i always rehydrate the yeast.


I was saying that it probably didn't matter if he re-hydrated the yeast using a cup of water, per the recipe, or with 2 oz of water per the yeast packet directions.


----------



## Trick

Monty Knapp said:


> I was saying that it probably didn't matter if he re-hydrated the yeast using a cup of water, per the recipe, or with 2 oz of water per the yeast packet directions.


agree.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

Got my first batch of this recipe ready to bottle today, but oversweetened a bit.
I have 5 gallons of coronation grapes that I don't plan on actually bottling on their own, so mixed in 1.5g of it into the danger daves. Seems to taste good initially, will see how it turns out.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

Interestingly, my notes and measurements say it should only be about 10%, but my head it telling me otherwise after having one glass. I wonder if more sugar came out of the fruit after the last time I took a reading, and then by the time I checked again and had fermented down below.

Edit: Reread my notes. I had originally made a mixture of water/sugar/lemon and measured it at 1.07 SG, so would be around 10%. However then added in 5lbs of strawberries, 1.5 lbs blueberries, 1lb raisins. While I never saw SG go higher (fermentation started in 24hrs), I'm sure there was a good deal of sugar in the fruit that brought it higher. No idea what it actually is at, but feels like 14 or 15%.
I'm guessing anyone following the directions will end up with more than 10% if they do the initial water mix to 1.075, or does this type fruit not add much sugar?


----------



## Chris Scott

My wine label thoughts ???


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## Jasper24

Chris Scott said:


> My wine label thoughts ???View attachment 45857


Great label and cool dragon


----------



## sour_grapes

I rather like the dragon.

Nits to pick: 
(1) The accent on the "e" of rosé is the wrong one. You used an accent grave when you meant to use an accent aigu. 
(2) I wouldn't cite my ABV to 2 decimal places. You _really_ don't know it that well. I would round to nearest 0.5%, so, 13% in your case.
(3) No apostrophe for Dragon's?
(4) No period for Mr.? Serious question: are you British?
(5) Seems like there is an extra space between "made" and "by."


----------



## peepmom

I asked a couple of my kids to draw me a dragon. I'm in love with how they turned out!!


----------



## gitmo234

Does someone have a good bottle they'd be willing to part with? I wanna to give it a try before I buy everything to try experiment on my own with it? I live in the northern virginia area and can pick up or I will pm my address to mail me a bottle of "olive oil".

Happy to fairly compensate


----------



## HarrysHomeBrew

GreenEnvy22 said:


> Got my first batch of this recipe ready to bottle today, but oversweetened a bit.
> I have 5 gallons of coronation grapes that I don't plan on actually bottling on their own, so mixed in 1.5g of it into the danger daves. Seems to taste good initially, will see how it turns out.



How much sugar did you use? I want to come close to over sweeten but not do it. Thanks.


----------



## tyfattori

How long would you recommend aging this DD's Dragon Blood or what's the longest someone has aged it so far?


----------



## jumby

tyfattori said:


> How long would you recommend aging this DD's Dragon Blood or what's the longest someone has aged it so far?


The flavor peaks after a few months. I have bottes that are well over a year old and still good.


----------



## willie

Heck we haven't been able to save a bottle for more than 9 months. We thought that bottle had lost some flavor. But as a general rule we like to start drinking DB when it 2-3 months old and if we have any left from that batch by the 4th or 5th month we are lucky. Friends and family really like it. Have 2 batches fermenting now a Cherry and a Triple Berry. It's our 1st time doing a Cherry so we are hoping it will be good. It sure smells good in the bucket. 

Will


----------



## tyfattori

That’s great to hear, I really look forward to making my first batch!


----------



## danr

Having made Original receipe DB(1/2 the lemon,though)I tried a batch with antioxadent blend that also is very good.Now I'm going to try a batch using Welches frozen blend of grape-strawberry-tartcherry&diced carrots.Probobly no lemon.Any thoughts?I have 1118&cote de blank yeasts on hand but I'm wondering...


----------



## roboto65

Mine is sitting waiting on the sugars I added to stabilize but it looks and tastes great mine was a Blackberry,Raspberry,Blueberry and Cherry blend my wife likes it so I did good.
My wife and Daughter also created the label here I love it will be bottling next time off the boat in about 2 weeks cannot wait.


----------



## HarrysHomeBrew

i should be adding sugar to mine next week. I think I want to make it pretty sweet. I guess I will mix my sugar and test it until it is almost sweet enough and that should be good. I am excited.


----------



## DrJeff

Quick question,

I almost to the letter followed the directions outlined on the first page, and have a very active ferment going at the moment. No issue there, and all seems to be going well.

The thing is, after having added about 24 cups of sugar to a 6.5 gallon carboy, the SG only seemed to make it up to approximately 1.062 (spectrometer and hydrometer reading). Being that that I had already added slightly more than the recipe called for and knowing it would be somewhat sweet on the backend, I was really hesitant to keep dumping sugar in to hit that 1.075 target. As a result, I think the final ABV% might be a little less than I was looking for.

So, I also have a still and do neutrals. Using an alcohol calculator, it looks like I could conceivably pull some 2 litres of fermented must out, and add around 2 litres of 40% ABV neutral. So my question is, can you add a nuetral spirit to the wine, bring up the ABV a touch, w/o rreally compromising the quality of the wine? New to wine making, so sort of assume this would be o.k., but given the care and feeding to get to this point, don't want to botch something unecessarily. I can live with a lower ABV, but was hoping to kick it up to around 10:12% if possible.

Thx in advance,
jeff


----------



## willie

DrJeff said:


> Quick question,
> 
> I almost to the letter followed the directions outlined on the first page, and have a very active ferment going at the moment. No issue there, and all seems to be going well.
> 
> The thing is, after having added about 24 cups of sugar to a 6.5 gallon carboy, the SG only seemed to make it up to approximately 1.062 (spectrometer and hydrometer reading). Being that that I had already added slightly more than the recipe called for and knowing it would be somewhat sweet on the backend, I was really hesitant to keep dumping sugar in to hit that 1.075 target. As a result, I think the final ABV% might be a little less than I was looking for.
> 
> So, I also have a still and do neutrals. Using an alcohol calculator, it looks like I could conceivably pull some 2 litres of fermented must out, and add around 2 litres of 40% ABV neutral. So my question is, can you add a nuetral spirit to the wine, bring up the ABV a touch, w/o rreally compromising the quality of the wine? New to wine making, so sort of assume this would be o.k., but given the care and feeding to get to this point, don't want to botch something unecessarily. I can live with a lower ABV, but was hoping to kick it up to around 10:12% if possible.
> 
> Thx in advance,
> jeff




Hello and welcome to the DB Thread. Yes you could have put in more sugar in the fermenter when you started to reach your desired final ABV. I usually start with a 10lb. bag of cane sugar and then add a few more cups to get the SG up to 1.080-1.090. If your ferment goes to dry at .990 then your ABV will be 9.45 %. Now if you want any time after your ferment you can add a 80-100 proof vodka to kick up the alcohol percentage. I have done that before and didn't notice any difference in taste. Dave's SG number of 1.075 is so you get the idea of a good starting point I guess. Which will give an ABV of 11.16%. All the sugar in the fermenter will be made into alcohol and will not add any sweetness to the wine when you ferment to dry. The sweetness comes later on when the wine is clear and you do the back sweetening. To me dry fruit wine is kind of nasty. But I am sure some folks may like it that way. One last thing. Veteran wine makers will tell you that too high of an ABV will hurt the fruitiness of the wine. Say 15-20 % range I never take our DB above 13%.

Will


----------



## sour_grapes

DrJeff said:


> Quick question,
> 
> I almost to the letter followed the directions outlined on the first page, and have a very active ferment going at the moment. No issue there, and all seems to be going well.
> 
> The thing is, after having added about 24 cups of sugar to a 6.5 gallon carboy, the SG only seemed to make it up to approximately 1.062 (spectrometer and hydrometer reading). Being that that I had already added slightly more than the recipe called for and knowing it would be somewhat sweet on the backend, I was really hesitant to keep dumping sugar in to hit that 1.075 target. As a result, I think the final ABV% might be a little less than I was looking for.



Jeff, Sugar is pretty slow to dissolve, especially in cool water. Are you sure it was all dissolved when you took your measurements?

BTW, we do not discuss distillation at all on this forum.


----------



## wildhair

[QUOTE="willie, post: 683034, member: 30227" I usually start with a 10lb. bag of cane sugar and then add a few more cups to get the SG up to 1.080-1.090. If your ferment goes to dry at .990 then your ABV will be 9.45 %. .......... Dave's SG number of 1.075 is so you get the idea of a good starting point I guess. Which will give an ABV of 11.16%.
Will[/QUOTE]

Ummmm ---------- isn't that backwards? At a starting ABV of 1.090 and and ending SG of .990 you get an a ABV of 13.58%, not 9.45%. 

And at 1.075 SG start and .990 SG ending - you get 11.5% ABV. More sugar = higher SG # = higher alcohol content.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Calculating Alcohol by Volume (% ABV )*

Drop the decimel points to do this calculation.

Original SG reading – Finished SG reading = X

Divide X by 7.36 = Alcohol by Volume %

EX – 1.090 starting SG reading and .990 finished SG reading (before sweetening)

1090 – 990 = 100 /7.36 = 13.58 %
1075 - 990 = 85 / 7.36 = 11.54%


----------



## sour_grapes

wildhair said:


> Ummmm ---------- isn't that backwards? At a starting ABV of 1.090 and and ending SG of .990 you get an a ABV of 13.58%, not 9.45%.



I believe Willie was saying that if Jeff's self-reported SG of 1.062 was accurate, and if he fermented to 0.990, then his wine would wind up at 9.45%.


----------



## wildhair

OK - I see that now - THAT makes sense. thanks for clearing that up.
Disregard my previous transmission. \


----------



## willie

Thanks guys for clearing that up. I will try to be a little clearer in my writing next time. 

Will


----------



## Rosa321

I think my blueberry dragon blood went bad! :-(
Yes, it sat in my 6 gal carboy longer than it should have because.... life happened. But it was airtight. 
I bottled it and it smelled off. When we tried it, it definitely isn't right. It tastes like bad wine and nail polish haha
Do you think because it sat in the carboy it went bad? I'm not sure what could have happened, other than I bought blueberries for the first time (Normally I use my own that I grow). Was there something with the blueberries that would have caused the wine to turn?

Just a bummer and I hope it doesn't happen again


----------



## willie

I can't imagine what could have gone wrong. I've made Blueberry DB twice and turned out fine. Just sitting in the carboy airtight to me the wine would be just sitting there and ageing. I assume you back sweetened it? Someone with more experience than I may have an idea what happened. Nail polish? YUK.

Will


----------



## tyfattori

I have a question I just racked my wine again once more and I’m supposed to wait another week before bottling. I checked the specific gravity and it’s at 1.010

Before I moved wine into my carboy from primary my SG was at 1 line below 0.990 for 3-4 days and at a constant 75.5 degrees is this OK or will this wine be too weak? I’m not sure what happened but I followed all instructions exactly and used all ingredients exactly as listed. Maybe I’m worrying for no reason?

*edit* I checked it also adding 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon as requested in instructions. Would this have something to do with it?


----------



## BernardSmith

Hi tyfattori. If I understand your post aright, I think you misunderstand what an hydrometer reading tells you. Knowing the specific gravity after the yeast has been actively fermenting tells you nothing whatsoever about the "weakness" or "strength" of the wine. It tells you ONLY how much residual sugar remains. And the amount remaining has nothing to do with how much fermentable sugar was in the wine before you pitched the yeast. That means your must (the juice before you pitch the yeast) could have had a specific gravity of 1.050, or 1.100 or 1.150 or any other number (and these three gravities COULD ferment a wine giving you an ABV of about 6.5%, 13%, or 19% . So is your wine "weak". Well, I don't know what you mean by "weak" and even if I did I would not know what the ABV of your wine might be since you only advise us of the amount of residual sugar in your wine... 
BUT the amount of sugar in your wine seems to have increased since you racked (moved) your wine. If it was at .990 one day and then at a later date it increased to 1.010 there is now about 8 oz of sugar in each gallon that was not there before. Now the cause of that increase could be one of four things - 
1. magic
2. a misreading of your hydrometer (reporter's error)
3. an inaccurate and unreliable hydrometer (malfunctioning tools) 
4. a third party who added more sugar to your wine but who failed to inform you.
Me? I would discount reasons 1 and 4. Reason 3 can be tested by simply measuring the gravity of distilled water (it should be 1.000) and then measuring the gravity of distilled water to which you have added 2 oz of sugar and which the volume is precisely 1 pint. The gravity should be 1.040. If it is then reason 3 seems unlikely... which leaves only.. But as I say, I may have misunderstood your post.


----------



## tyfattori

BernardSmith said:


> Hi tyfattori. If I understand your post aright, I think you misunderstand what an hydrometer reading tells you. Knowing the specific gravity after the yeast has been actively fermenting tells you nothing whatsoever about the "weakness" or "strength" of the wine. It tells you ONLY how much residual sugar remains. And the amount remaining has nothing to do with how much fermentable sugar was in the wine before you pitched the yeast. That means your must (the juice before you pitch the yeast) could have had a specific gravity of 1.050, or 1.100 or 1.150 or any other number (and these three gravities COULD ferment a wine giving you an ABV of about 6.5%, 13%, or 19% . So is your wine "weak". Well, I don't know what you mean by "weak" and even if I did I would not know what the ABV of your wine might be since you only advise us of the amount of residual sugar in your wine...
> BUT the amount of sugar in your wine seems to have increased since you racked (moved) your wine. If it was at .990 one day and then at a later date it increased to 1.010 there is now about 8 oz of sugar in each gallon that was not there before. Now the cause of that increase could be one of four things -
> 1. magic
> 2. a misreading of your hydrometer (reporter's error)
> 3. an inaccurate and unreliable hydrometer (malfunctioning tools)
> 4. a third party who added more sugar to your wine but who failed to inform you.
> Me? I would discount reasons 1 and 4. Reason 3 can be tested by simply measuring the gravity of distilled water (it should be 1.000) and then measuring the gravity of distilled water to which you have added 2 oz of sugar and which the volume is precisely 1 pint. The gravity should be 1.040. If it is then reason 3 seems unlikely... which leaves only.. But as I say, I may have misunderstood your post.



Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post I appreciate it. I did not know that knowing the SG after fermentation tells you nothing so I apologize I will have to check how to calculate ABV.

I edited my post, the added sugar was from me just today adding the 3/4 cup per gallon as Dave recommended in his recipe. That’s why there is more sugar now than there was before it was just to adjust it to a sweetness that I liked which was actually what he recommended. I added sugar 3/4 cup at a time and tasted until I was happy. No wonder why when I checked the hydrometer it was saying it was sub 5% alcohol that’s why I was worried. I was hoping to have a 10-13% abv like a normal bottle of wine. That’s what I was going off of when I said weak. Sorry I didn’t clear this up in my first post this is the first batch of wine I’ve ever made but I’m really enjoying it. I will do a search and see how to check ABV and then I will do that. Thanks again for the reply Bernard.


----------



## BernardSmith

If you know the starting gravity you can easily calculate the ABV by subtracting the final gravity - which was .990*** from the starting figure (let's for the sake of argument say it was 1.090) = .100 You then multiply .1 by 131 and your ABV is 13%. (this would be what I would expect if you had added about 2.25 lbs of sugar to every gallon of liquid where the liquid was basically water and lemon juice. In other words, assuming a starting gravity of about 1.090 you are right on taarget).

*** I am assuming that before you added the sugar to increase the sweetness you stabilized the wine by adding K-meta and K-sorbate. Yes? If you didn't the yeast ain't going to care that you want that added sugar to be off limits to the yeast. For the yeast fermentable sugar is fermentable sugar and they - not you get first dibs.


----------



## tyfattori

So I went and found how to calculate ABV and my starting SG was 1.090 and my ending was 0.990 so my ABV comes out to be 13.13% ABV (using a calculated)


----------



## tyfattori

BernardSmith said:


> If you know the starting gravity you can easily calculate the ABV by subtracting the final gravity - which was .990*** from the starting figure (let's for the sake of argument say it was 1.090) = .100 You then multiply .1 by 131 and your ABV is 13%. (this would be what I would expect if you had added about 2.25 lbs of sugar to every gallon of liquid where the liquid was basically water and lemon juice. In other words, assuming a starting gravity of about 1.090 you are right on taarget).
> 
> *** I am assuming that before you added the sugar to increase the sweetness you stabilized the wine by adding K-meta and K-sorbate. Yes? If you didn't the yeast ain't going to care that you want that added sugar to be off limits to the yeast. For the yeast fermentable sugar is fermentable sugar and they - not you get first dibs.



You beat me to it I literally found out and calculated my ABV and posted right after you did. But yes I did stabilize when I first racked it and allowed it to clear for a week and half.


----------



## BernardSmith

Right on target! so your worry is unnecessary. Relax. Given that there is no taxation or excise involved being able to calculate the ABV to the 100th decimal point seems a little unnecessary too - not least because of the relative inaccuracy of using SG to determine alcohol content and being able to accurately read the SG using hydrometers sold for home wine making and given our ability to accurately measure volumes of liquid at specific temperatures.. In other words, I would argue that "13%" is close enough in the world of home wine making and to be able to say that , no, my wine is 12.76% or 13.13% would require far more sophisticated equipment and procedures and processes than we in fact are likely to use. Both are for all intents and purposes 13% in my book


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## tyfattori

BernardSmith said:


> Right on target! so your worry is unnecessary. Relax. Given that there is no taxation or excise involved being able to calculate the ABV to the 100th decimal point seems a little unnecessary too - not least because of the relative inaccuracy of using SG to determine alcohol content and being able to accurately read the SG using hydrometers sold for home wine making and given our ability to accurately measure volumes of liquid at specific temperatures.. In other words, I would argue that "13%" is close enough in the world of home wine making and to be able to say that , no, my wine is 12.76% or 13.13% would require far more sophisticated equipment and procedures and processes than we in fact are likely to use. Both are for all intents and purposes 13% in my book



Awesome! I’m glad I’m on track and thankful for such an awesome forum. Thanks a lot for the help and clearing up my confusion. But I agree! I 13.13% just came up on the calculator I didn’t mean to correct you. Going by a whole number sounds better to me anyways!


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## BernardSmith

No no no.. It's not about correcting me. When I am wrong I want to be corrected. My point was only that we sometimes use figures that appear to be far more carefully obtained than they truly are. Look at the hydrometers we use. Typically, there are 5 lines between 10 points - so how "accurate" is any reading - assuming the viscosity of the liquid is not a problem, assuming the flatness of the surface we are using to stand the cylinder on is not a problem, assuming the surface is perfectly horizontal (not the same as the flatness),and assuming our eye is at eye level to the miniscus... our measurements are rough and ready and that's perfectly OK.. but let's always remember that rough and ready is not the same as accurate to two decimal places


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## tyfattori

I see what you’re saying. That makes complete sense now.


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## Rosa321

[Thanks, Will!]

I know! I've made it several times before and loved it each time. This last batch is so sad. I can't even bring myself to dump out the bottles! 
Maybe I can keep it until it turns to vinegar and use it as weed killer lol  I just went back to my journal and I remembered it was a delayed start on the fermentation. I was using berries I picked at a farm, so I added the K-Meta. Fermentation didn't start for several days. I wonder if that was it? I would have thought with the 1/4 tsp K-Meta in there it would have prevented spoilage, but maybe not.
Time to check my yeast, too...Unless I goofed or it was a fluke the delayed start was the only difference I can see in my notes.


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## BernardSmith

Rosa321 - what exactly is the problem and what was the recipe and protocol you used? Few wines are total disasters. Most problems can be repaired..


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## Jal5

Just started my first try at DB today. We are looking forward to seeing how it goes. used pretty much the Danger Dave recipe but reduced the lemon juice somewhat- strong lemon flavor would not be a hit with my wife. Will let you know how it turns out.
Joe


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## Monty Knapp

Well, I learned something today.
I have a 3 gallon batch of all strawberry Dragon's Blood. When I added the sugar, I decided to add a little red food coloring to give it better color, since it was the typical pale orange-pink color of strawberry wine. Looked great.
Then a week later I filtered the wine in prep for bottling. The filter actually removed some of the color. At first, the filtered wine was back to the original color, but apparently the filter loaded up with the food coloring about a third of the way through and started letting the coloring through. I added a capful of food coloring and it was back to where I wanted it.
If I ever add coloring again, I'll have to remember to do it after filtering.


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## Monty Knapp

Bottled my strawberry wine today. Turned out great. Used the original Dragon's Blood recipe, except used 6 lbs of strawberries for 3 gallons and went a little lighter on the lemon juice (20 oz). Back sweetened with two and a half cups of sugar.


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## willie

Jal5 said:


> Just started my first try at DB today. We are looking forward to seeing how it goes. used pretty much the Danger Dave recipe but reduced the lemon juice somewhat- strong lemon flavor would not be a hit with my wife. Will let you know how it turns out.
> Joe




We usually use 30-32 oz of lemon or lime juice. Or even a mixture of both. In our present ferment we used 30 oz of lime juice for a little different taste. Good luck with your 1st batch of DB. It's a great wine. As it ages to about 2-3 months old it will really start to taste good. It's been close to 5 yrs sense I started making this wonderful wine and have made many variations and flavors but Danger Daves Original Wyman's Triple Berry recipe is our favorite. Just this year I have 2 other family members that is making it now. There is a lot of great information in this thread which I have read just about every post. I have really learned a lot from reading it. Good luck.

Will


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## willie

Monty Knapp said:


> Bottled my strawberry wine today. Turned out great. Used the original Dragon's Blood recipe, except used 6 lbs of strawberries for 3 gallons and went a little lighter on the lemon juice (20 oz). Back sweetened with two and a half cups of sugar.



Nice looking bottles of strawberry you have there Monty.


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## tyfattori

Got my Dragon Blood bottled this morning first time making wine and I enjoyed it a lot! I used the same exact original recipe and it tastes awesome can’t wait until the flavors come out in a few months. I got almost 30 bottles filled, the 4 shown are to enjoy while the rest sit.


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## Jal5

Mine is working right along schedule. Day 5 since pitching yeast and the SG is down to 1.004 already! Amazing how fast this primary fermentation goes, keeping it covered with a fleece jacket at 80 degrees. At this rate I will be ready to put it in the glass carboy by Friday I think. Joe


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## Jal5

At a constant SG of .994 over 48 hrs. and racked into the glass carboy today for the next week or so after adding the other ingredients as in the recipe. Used Dualfine clearing agent per suggestion from the local wine making store owner, hoping that clears it well. Some lees still in the wine that are easily visible.
Should I rack a second time before waiting a week or leave them for now? The yield was almost a full 6 gal. from the primary on this batch. Used a plastic hanger with 2 zip ties attached at the end and a drill to degass. That was very easy compared to trying to stir the daylights out of it by hand!
Joe


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## willie

Jal5 said:


> At a constant SG of .994 over 48 hrs. and racked into the glass carboy today for the next week or so after adding the other ingredients as in the recipe. Used Dualfine clearing agent per suggestion from the local wine making store owner, hoping that clears it well. Some lees still in the wine that are easily visible.
> Should I rack a second time before waiting a week or leave them for now? The yield was almost a full 6 gal. from the primary on this batch. Used a plastic hanger with 2 zip ties attached at the end and a drill to degass. That was very easy compared to trying to stir the daylights out of it by hand!
> Joe



I would just let it sit for 7-10 days before you rack again. And make sure the wine is clear. 


Will


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## Jal5

It's clearing very nicely for only about 24 hrs after adding the clearing agent. I think this is going to turn out really nice. I topped up the 5 g. today using some from the 1 g. that was overflow and then backfilled the 1g. with some 100% organic concord grape juice. We will see how this turns out. 
Joe


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## gainescd

I started a variation of this June of 2017. I used a Muscat concentrate in place of the initial sugar addition. Honey was added to reach initial gravity. Kept up with the timeline and moved to secondary and stabilized and clarified before life got in the way. With the exception of maintaining airlock level has been left alone. My question is am I OK to back sweeten as is of do I need to do anything with stabilization again prior to adding sweetener? Next question would be what conversion for sugar to honey should I use as I want to use honey?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice.


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## HarrysHomeBrew

I back sweetened mine last night. I hope I did not screw it up. I added sugar til Brix was at 5. After sugar and water mixed it was more than 6 gallons so I had a huge glass of it last night it tasted like like fruity red sangria box wine. Can't wait to bottle next week 

People said to add sugar till it tasted good but don't add too much because with in about a month it will really come out with the fruit flavors I wanted it sweet. We will see


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## Tess

Glad to see this one is still popular. It was my first wine. It is also where I learned the Basic winemaking skills. Winemakers tend to toss a recipe at you when you're new. They do not realize how new we really are. They tell you the ingredients and how much and that is all. lol. I hope to never have to follow them Baking!! I needed this step By step recipe or I would have never even considered going past first Base in winemaking!! Still my son ask me to make this!! lol I will too. Next Batch for sure!!


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## Tess

HarrysHomeBrew said:


> I back sweetened mine last night. I hope I did not screw it up. I added sugar til Brix was at 5. After sugar and water mixed it was more than 6 gallons so I had a huge glass of it last night it tasted like like fruity red sangria box wine. Can't wait to bottle next week
> 
> People said to add sugar till it tasted good but don't add too much because with in about a month it will really come out with the fruit flavors I wanted it sweet. We will see


Pretty hard to screw this one up. lol It will Be fine.


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## Jal5

Update to previous post: my 5 gal. batch is clearing very well! The 1 gal. that I backfilled with 100% concord grape concentrate organic juice yesterday has started to ferment again. I guess I didn't take into account the amount of sugar in that concentrate. And the 1 gal. was the overflow from the primary fermenter bucket and didn't have very much of the final added ingredients to stabilize and clarify etc. I just added some of the 5 gal. containing the added ingredients to the 1 gal. and thought that was enough. A learning process!

Now I will have a one gallon batch that is "high test" for comparison with the regular 5 gal DB version. 
Joe


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## AdamWallace

Just shooting this out there. This is my first time making DB and only second attempt at any wine. It took about two full weeks to get below SG 1.000. I followed directions exactly and racked into secondary fermenter. Waiting to clear now, it’s been 4 days and doesn’t seem to be clearing much. Am I just being impatient and anxious?


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## AdamWallace

P.S. I’ve enjoyed this so far very much just hoping for a great final product. The first was good, just not great.and def not clear enough. But I’m learning


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## roboto65

Yeah I have the luxury of time on my side well I say that meaning I am gone for 2 weeks at a time so mine have all cleared great. And I only have a week home so mine also goes to primary without getting to 1.000.



AdamWallace said:


> Just shooting this out there. This is my first time making DB and only second attempt at any wine. It took about two full weeks to get below SG 1.000. I followed directions exactly and racked into secondary fermenter. Waiting to clear now, it’s been 4 days and doesn’t seem to be clearing much. Am I just being impatient and anxious?


 I would let it sit and see what happens not much can go wrong in 2 weeks or even a month I have learned that even in beer making


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## AdamWallace

Thanks, I will attempt patience


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## Tess

AdamWallace said:


> Just shooting this out there. This is my first time making DB and only second attempt at any wine. It took about two full weeks to get below SG 1.000. I followed directions exactly and racked into secondary fermenter. Waiting to clear now, it’s been 4 days and doesn’t seem to be clearing much. Am I just being impatient and anxious?



It will clear just give it the time it needs.


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## willie

AdamWallace said:


> Just shooting this out there. This is my first time making DB and only second attempt at any wine. It took about two full weeks to get below SG 1.000. I followed directions exactly and racked into secondary fermenter. Waiting to clear now, it’s been 4 days and doesn’t seem to be clearing much. Am I just being impatient and anxious?



Just to add to what Tess has stated check the wine's temperature. I try to keep mine at about 75 degrees F. after the first rack and it is clearing. And I keep it at that temp. till I filter and bottle. And when you are fermenting if you have it between 75-80 + degrees the ferment will go to dry much faster than say if it is only 70 degrees. My average ferment usually last for 7-9 days to get an SG reading of .990

Will


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## AdamWallace

Thanks a bunch, I think temperature control is def what I’ll do better next time. It has stayed around 70 the entire process. I’ll see what I can do tonight to warm it up a bit and see if that helps clear it off. Thanks again


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## Jal5

Nice color on the 5 gallon! That 1 gal. Is still fermenting.


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## roboto65

Bottled and have given some out and drank some at a party we had went over great with Crawfish. Also started a Tropical Dragons Blood wine we will see how that turns out looks great.

This is a clear bottle came out very red. My daughter did the labels.


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## Jal5

I like the labels. That did come out very red, mine is more like a rose colored wine.


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## detlion1643

I put together a slight variation of this, using 8 lbs strawberries and probably about 5 gallons of water, maybe 5.5. It's about 6-6.5g all together. I can still add some lemon juice but haven't yet. Ferment has only been going about 24 hours and activity is noticeable. In pure fruit wine, 8 lbs is on the very low side for a batch of about 5-5.5g (after removing the fruit). Does the lemon juice make that big of a difference in taste? I don't want it to come out too "thin" as previous wines from concentrates I've made are always too "thin"... This is my first time with real fruit...


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## Monty Knapp

detlion1643 said:


> I put together a slight variation of this, using 8 lbs strawberries and probably about 5 gallons of water, maybe 5.5. It's about 6-6.5g all together. I can still add some lemon juice but haven't yet. Ferment has only been going about 24 hours and activity is noticeable. In pure fruit wine, 8 lbs is on the very low side for a batch of about 5-5.5g (after removing the fruit). Does the lemon juice make that big of a difference in taste? I don't want it to come out too "thin" as previous wines from concentrates I've made are always too "thin"... This is my first time with real fruit...


I'd add the lemon juice. I always assumed the lemon juice is required for a good acid level/balance. I've made five 3 gallon batches of Dragon's Blood and use 20 oz lemon juice (for 3 gallon). Final pH is usually 3.1 to 3.2, and total acid ~0.60-0.65%.
I'm not sure what you mean by "thin". This is a blush with plenty of flavor.


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## detlion1643

Monty Knapp said:


> I'd add the lemon juice. I always assumed the lemon juice is required for a good acid level/balance. I've made five 3 gallon batches of Dragon's Blood and use 20 oz lemon juice (for 3 gallon). Final pH is usually 3.1 to 3.2, and total acid ~0.60-0.65%.
> I'm not sure what you mean by "thin". This is a blush with plenty of flavor.


By "thin" I mean watery, like you can tell what flavor they are, but it's not a lot of flavor, and the whole batches tasted very watery and had no substance/body to them. As mentioned, this is my first time using real fruit over concentrates.


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## Jal5

Here is mine from four berry frozen fruit. Not much fruity taste yet but if we can leave it alone it will get there. LOL. 
Happy Easter to all and thanks for this great thread.


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## Monty Knapp

Filtered my Quad Berry today.
Will bottle in a few days.


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## crooked cork

4 berry blend comes out darker red and much better flavor than triple berry. I have also in the past added 1 gallon of unsweetened Rhubarb and then sweetened the whole batch, I have done this twice and a big hit with the locals,
i call it Bumble Berry.

Yes add the lemon juice.


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## detlion1643

Thanks for the opinions, I did opt to add in about 20oz of lemon juice to the active ferment tonight. Let's hope it helps!


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## detlion1643

Took a reading and sample this morning. Already at 1.010 so it's moving along really fast and really smooth - no troubles at all. The sample, albeit still very very early, tasted sweet and slightly fruity. The strawberry flavor didn't really come through that much. I might add some strawberry extract when I transfer to secondary (I already have it) in hopes it'll brighten it up. I am planning on backsweetening it as well and know that the flavor should develop some more in secondary and bottle.


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## Monty Knapp

I did a strawberry using 6 lbs of frozen strawberries in a 3 gallon batch. I too had the strawberry flavoring ready to add, but after backsweetening, I decided it didn't need the flavoring.
Tasted pretty good immediately. Think it's going to be a great in a few months. Going to be popular, so I'm planning a 6 gallon batch soon.
Good luck with yours.


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## detlion1643

Took another reading today - down to 1.000... I'll probably rack on Monday to secondary since tomorrow is all day family with Easter. I also took another sample and it was the same as yesterday just a little bit less sweet.


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## detlion1643

So this morning I decided to rack into secondary. I squeezed as much out the bag of strawberries as I could - won't be doing that again. The texture and mess, not worth it... I made a simple syrup of 6 cups of sugar and 3 cups of water and poured that into the primary as well as 2 1/2 tsp of sorbate... I then racked into the secondary and dropped in 3 campden tablets (probably not needed but I'm always worried about oxidation after primary. Took a reading from the secondary and sitting at 1.010. Tasted the sample, same as before, thin and myself I couldn't really taste the sweetness of it yet. Then I opted to add a few drops of strawberry extract to increase flavor. Well, I didn't have my coffee yet and there are no "drops" it just pours out. So, in a pre coffee stupor, the secondary got probably 1 tsbp of strawberry extract, oops... It's a dark pink right now and the race is on to clear.


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## Monty Knapp

Bottled my Quad Berry DB today. Came out 0.50%TA, which is a little lower than usual. Usually 0.55 to 0.60%. Don't know what caused that. Maybe fruit was just different ripeness. Maybe because I used a 5 gallon bucket for a primary (3 gallon batch). Wasn't a lot of surface area with fruit bag floating on top.
Oh well, it tastes just fine.


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## willie

detlion1643 said:


> Took another reading today - down to 1.000... I'll probably rack on Monday to secondary since tomorrow is all day family with Easter. I also took another sample and it was the same as yesterday just a little bit less sweet.





detlion1643 said:


> So this morning I decided to rack into secondary. I squeezed as much out the bag of strawberries as I could - won't be doing that again. The texture and mess, not worth it... I made a simple syrup of 6 cups of sugar and 3 cups of water and poured that into the primary as well as 2 1/2 tsp of sorbate... I then racked into the secondary and dropped in 3 campden tablets (probably not needed but I'm always worried about oxidation after primary. Took a reading from the secondary and sitting at 1.010. Tasted the sample, same as before, thin and myself I couldn't really taste the sweetness of it yet. Then I opted to add a few drops of strawberry extract to increase flavor. Well, I didn't have my coffee yet and there are no "drops" it just pours out. So, in a pre coffee stupor, the secondary got probably 1 tsbp of strawberry extract, oops... It's a dark pink right now and the race is on to clear.






Monty Knapp said:


> Bottled my Quad Berry DB today. Came out 0.50%TA, which is a little lower than usual. Usually 0.60 to 0.65%. Don't know what caused that. Maybe fruit was just different ripeness. Maybe because I used a 5 gallon bucket for a primary (3 gallon batch). Wasn't a lot of surface area with fruit bag floating on top.
> Oh well, it tastes just fine.
> View attachment 47793
> View attachment 47794




Your bottled DB looks great. I have been making Danger Dave's Triple Berry with Wyman's Triple Berry blend sense 2013 and we love it. Can you give me more details on what Quad Berry brand? We are alway's looking to try something new. We have the Triple Berry and Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart in the works right now.

Will


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## Monty Knapp

willie said:


> Your bottled DB looks great. I have been making Danger Dave's Triple Berry with Wyman's Triple Berry blend sense 2013 and we love it. Can you give me more details on what Quad Berry brand? We are alway's looking to try something new. We have the Triple Berry and Dave's Sweet Strawberry Tart in the works right now.
> 
> Will



I call it "Quad Berry" just to differentiate it from "Triple Berry". It's Walmart Great Value brand "Whole Berry Medley" frozen fruit - strawberry, raspberry, blueberry, blackberry.


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## willie

Monty Knapp said:


> I call it "Quad Berry" just to differentiate it from "Triple Berry". It's Walmart Great Value brand "Whole Berry Medley" frozen fruit - strawberry, raspberry, blueberry, blackberry.
> View attachment 47796




Thanks Monty, I was thinking that was the Quad you mentioned cause we shop Wally World some too. Enjoy your wine. Dragon Blood is such a wonderful recipe. So many variations. Such a great thread. 

Will


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## Monty Knapp

willie said:


> Thanks Monty, I was thinking that was the Quad you mentioned cause we shop Wally World some too. Enjoy your wine. Dragon Blood is such a wonderful recipe. So many variations. Such a great thread.
> 
> Will



Yes, love this recipe.
I've got a straight blackberry version that is about cleared and ready to rack. Color looks great.


----------



## Monty Knapp

willie said:


> Thanks Monty, I was thinking that was the Quad you mentioned cause we shop Wally World some too. Enjoy your wine. Dragon Blood is such a wonderful recipe. So many variations. Such a great thread.
> 
> Will



Yes, love this recipe.
I've got a straight blackberry version that is about cleared and ready to rack. Color looks great.


----------



## Monty Knapp

Here are 2 different "Quad Berry" Dragon's Blood wines.
The one on the left was made with 3 lbs of frozen fruit, in a 3 gallon batch.
The one one the right was made with 4 lbs of frozen fruit, in a 3 gallon batch. 
No difference in color.
Just bottled the right one yesterday. In a few months I will be able to compare taste. The older one should have an edge, but I'll be able to judge the difference in fruit flavor intensity .


----------



## Berry Juice

Need some advice,, I racked primary to the secondary in step 4 and added all the chems, then noticed that I was suppose to let it sit for a week before adding sugar in step 5, Didn't see that until after I added the sugar to step 4 as well.
Is this going to cause any problems?


----------



## Monty Knapp

barry griggs said:


> Need some advice,, I racked primary to the secondary in step 4 and added all the chems, then noticed that I was suppose to let it sit for a week before adding sugar in step 5, Didn't see that until after I added the sugar to step 4 as well.
> Is this going to cause any problems?


Don't know, but at this point what i'd do is wait and see if it clears. If it does, rack it per step 5, sample it and add more sugar if needed, then let it sit a week - basically proceed with step 5 after it clears w/o adding more sugar unless needed.


----------



## wildhair

detlion1643 said:


> By "thin" I mean watery, like you can tell what flavor they are, but it's not a lot of flavor, and the whole batches tasted very watery and had no substance/body to them. As mentioned, this is my first time using real fruit over concentrates.



I made my first batch of DB earlier this year with the 4 berry blend of frozen fruit and had the same issue with it tasting too thin and watery for me. So I used frozen concentrated berry juice to backsweeten - it was almost the same mix of strawberry, raspberry, blackberry. Worked out great. 
Next time I make it - twice the fruit and 1/2 the water, and I'll backsweeten with the same berry blend.


----------



## detlion1643

wildhair I like that approach. I have not tested mine since before backsweetening. I dropped the sorbate into the primary and mixed 6 cups sugar with 3 cups water and put that in the secondary. I then racked as much as I could from the primary into the secondary. I did not purposely degas (but splashed a little and swirled) and have been seeing bubbles for at least a week (hope it's just co2 instead of re-ferment)... It's still the dark cloudy pink color in the picture I previously posted. It hasn't seemed to start clearing yet.


----------



## Jal5

I just bottled 4+ more bottles from my "extra gallon" of DB the one that I tried to backsweeten with grape juice concentrate without stabilizing the wine first, with resulting additional fermentation. It tastes great but is a much stronger alcohol level than the original quadberry DB that I started out with! I think it has more body from the additional grape juice and mouthfeel. I am calling this one Bella Rosso +++ to differentiate it from the rest of the bottles. 
I think the next batch of DB I will experiment with adding grape juice to the entire batch and see how we like that, along with a small increase in the original SG to boost up the alcohol level. 

It is fun to tweak this recipe to our tastes.
Joe


----------



## wildhair

Jal5 said:


> I think the next batch of DB I will experiment with adding grape juice to the entire batch and see how we like that, along with a small increase in the original SG to boost up the alcohol level.



I think either a can or 2 of Welches White Grape frozen concentrate OR a couple boxes of golden raisins in the primary would help the body and feel.


----------



## Mostosa-SPA

great stuff!

--------------------------------
Mostosa - Spanish grape juice concentrate suppliers
http://www.mostosa.com/en/


----------



## Berry Juice

barry griggs said:


> Need some advice,, I racked primary to the secondary in step 4 and added all the chems, then noticed that I was suppose to let it sit for a week before adding sugar in step 5, Didn't see that until after I added the sugar to step 4 as well.
> Is this going to cause any problems?



Ok, I've got a little update on my first batch of DB. All came out clear and looks like a nice blush in color. Very successful run, started SG at 1.120 finished SG .990.
However, It's a little on the sweet side for our taste. It didn't taste that sweet when I backsweetened on step 4.
I have 6 gallons that I know over time is going to get sweeter.
So my friends, what can i use to cut the sweetness?


----------



## wildhair

I'll be watching for more experienced winemakers to reply, but in the meantime -
1. Throw a party - don't let it sit around long enough to get sweeter. 
2. Give it to people that like sweet wine. My wife would take a few bottles for sure!
3. Chalk it up to experience, and use the bottles to back-sweeten future batches of DB or to blend with/sweeten other wines.

If you don't like those ideas - then I would do some experimenting. Pour a couple 4 oz or 100 ml glasses (or whatever quantity you want). Start by adding very small measured amounts - (grams or fractional teaspons) 
1. Add a little tartaric and/or citric acid or lemon juice? 
2. Possibly a bit more tannin as well - that might give it a drier finish.
Do it small, measured quantities so you can "up-scale" to a gallon. 

When I backsweeten, I start with 1 oz of wine and add 1/8 t of simple syrup. If it's too sweet - I add 1 more oz of wine. Not sweet enough? add 1/8 t more or until my wife says "that's good".

1/8 t simple syrup : 1 oz. wine ~ equals ~ 1/3 cup : 1 gallon.

There are no doubt better answers and probably additives I don't know about, so...........


----------



## Berry Juice

The recipe called for 2-6 cups of sugar, so I added 4 cups and wished it well. 
Guess I should have dtartst with 1 cuo.


----------



## wildhair

I never add straight sugar to sweeten - it can cause an almost volcanic type reaction. Go with *simple syrup* to backsweeten (2 cups sugar to 1 cup water - heat to boiling and let it cool) 

And I always sweeten to MY taste (or my wife's taste) - regardless what the recipe says - everyone's taste buds are different. Experiment with small amounts of additives like I mentioned above - I think you may be able to make it more to you liking. good luck. 
(I'm still waiting for smarter people to chime in)


----------



## Berry Juice

OK, I think I have improved it.
I added 1 1/2 tsp of Tannins and 1 tsp Acid Blend and a cup of RealLime juice.
Seems to have cut it nicely.
I will let it sit overnight and check it tomorrow.
Fingers crossed


----------



## wildhair

If it meets your approval, you should let it settle for at least a couple weeks and clear.


----------



## Berry Juice

My DB went clowdy after adding the Lime juice last night. Should I hit it with Sparkolid or peptic enzyme for Potasium sorbaite or campden tablets?


----------



## wildhair

I suspected it would. You should have already added the Pot. Sorbate and Campden tablets, correct? *Don't do that again.* Give it a bit of time to settle out - couple weeks to a month and it should clear again. I try to avoid adding clearing agents (especially the SAME clearing agent) more than once, but if it's still cloudy after a month, and you don't want to wait any longer - I would go with a 2-part clearing agent like Super Kleer (or similar) or maybe just some bentonite. Pectic enzyme would only help if it it's a pectic haze - which it 99% isn't (assuming it was clear BEFORE adding the lime juice). Be patient, tho - it will likely clear on it's own.

I think all the really smart winemakers have taken the week off. LOL


----------



## Berry Juice

Yes, I have add the Potassium Metabisulfite, Potassium Sorbate, & Sparkolloid 2 weeks ago. 
Was super clear, then I added the RealLime juice and the clowdyness came in. 
I will just put it on the back shelf and wait another week and see what happens.
Thanks


----------



## Jal5

I went to Costco yesterday with my wife. She thinks I am addicted to making wine now since I had to stop and price, you guessed it, cost of sugar in bulk and of course triple berry and quad berry fruit packs there! Both were at a good price so the next DB I make will be with Costco ingredients. 
Joe


----------



## wildhair

Berry Juice said:


> Yes, I have add the Potassium Metabisulfite, Potassium Sorbate, & Sparkolloid 2 weeks ago.
> Was super clear, then I added the RealLime juice and the clowdyness came in.
> I will just put it on the back shelf and wait another week and see what happens.
> Thanks



Might want to give it at least 2 weeks or so. Keep the airlock in.


----------



## crooked cork

What is the theory on a 3 gallon batch? Why not make a 6 gallon batch? The worst that can happen is the spouse will yell at you for taking up more space and spending more money. LOL


----------



## wildhair

If the 3-gal Q was for me - I make about 10 - 15 or different wines each year, most in 2 - 5 gal batches. A 3 gal batch of DB is just about right for me. Twice the fruit & 1/2 the water would make it about 4# of fruit per gal - which would give more body and fullness and is about the ratio I use for most of my fresh fruit wines. 
But who knows - my wife seems to like the Dragon's Blood (tho I did have to add some extra syrup to her carboy.) - so I may make a bigger batch next time.


----------



## Monty Knapp

Just bottled a batch of DB that is all blackberry. Went with 1 cup sugar per gallon, which is a little sweeter than I like, but friends love it that way.
Also, this time I added 3 tbsp of glycerin (to 3 gallons) to improve body. Improved the mouthfeel, but added to the sweetness. Next time I think I'll use just 2.5 cups sugar per 3 gallons.
Compared this to the "Quad Berry" version and the blackberry is noticeably deeper in color.


----------



## wildhair

Just bottled up my first batch of nearly-messed up Dragon's Blood. Turned out pretty good! Since I backsweetened w/ berry juice conc. & white grape juice conc (to add some body and flavor) - it didn't need any extra sweetening for me. But I had to sweeten it up a bit more for my wife. So the white label is mine, the colored label is her's. I also bottled up some Apple for her.


----------



## ringmany

Hi everyone,

I've started creating my first batch. I've just finished my fermentation stage and degassed the wine. I drank a small sample before adding my finings and it's incredibly sour. Gave a few people a sample and their cheeks swelled with the taste of sourness. It wasn't that pleasant, didn't taste fruity either. I'm uncertain exactly what I've done wrong, or if it will simply develop over time.

I had to convert everything to measurements such as grams and ounces. Added the equiveleant of 48 ounches of concentrated lemon juice, making it very acidic, it was fizzing even after fermentation completed. The gravity is currently 0.994.

Looking online, the sourness can be caused by too much acidic, too much tannin, or bacteria infection. I believe everything has been thrououghly sterlised, every time I interacted with the brew. There was a lot of acid in the 48 ounces of lemon juice ofc. Added 1tsp of the wine tannin.

Do you believe it will get better over time, or is the batch ruined? How did yours taste at this stage? If it's ruined, I'd rather toss the lot and start again rather than wait a few weeks to complete and waist more resources.



Spoiler: Dragon Blood batch
















IMG_20180512_183751



__ ringmany
__ May 12, 2018









Thanks.


----------



## Monty Knapp

ringmany said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've started creating my first batch. I've just finished my fermentation stage and degassed the wine. I drank a small sample before adding my finings and it's incredibly sour. Gave a few people a sample and their cheeks swelled with the taste of sourness. It wasn't that pleasant, didn't taste fruity either. I'm uncertain exactly what I've done wrong, or if it will simply develop over time.
> 
> I had to convert everything to measurements such as grams and ounces. Added the equiveleant of 48 ounches of concentrated lemon juice, making it very acidic, it was fizzing even after fermentation completed. The gravity is currently 0.994.
> 
> Looking online, the sourness can be caused by too much acidic, too much tannin, or bacteria infection. I believe everything has been thrououghly sterlised, every time I interacted with the brew. There was a lot of acid in the 48 ounces of lemon juice ofc. Added 1tsp of the wine tannin.
> 
> Do you believe it will get better over time, or is the batch ruined? How did yours taste at this stage? If it's ruined, I'd rather toss the lot and start again rather than wait a few weeks to complete and waist more resources.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Dragon Blood batch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20180512_183751
> 
> 
> 
> __ ringmany
> __ May 12, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



There may be nothing wrong with your wine. This wine is meant to be back sweetened. Once it is, the fruit flavor comes out. And don't assume that because it's so sour it needs a lot of sugar. It may not. Sweeten with 1/2 or 3/4 cups of sugar per gallon when it is time. Then taste and add more if you think it needs it.


----------



## Monty Knapp

ringmany said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've started creating my first batch. I've just finished my fermentation stage and degassed the wine. I drank a small sample before adding my finings and it's incredibly sour. Gave a few people a sample and their cheeks swelled with the taste of sourness. It wasn't that pleasant, didn't taste fruity either. I'm uncertain exactly what I've done wrong, or if it will simply develop over time.
> 
> I had to convert everything to measurements such as grams and ounces. Added the equiveleant of 48 ounches of concentrated lemon juice, making it very acidic, it was fizzing even after fermentation completed. The gravity is currently 0.994.
> 
> Looking online, the sourness can be caused by too much acidic, too much tannin, or bacteria infection. I believe everything has been thrououghly sterlised, every time I interacted with the brew. There was a lot of acid in the 48 ounces of lemon juice ofc. Added 1tsp of the wine tannin.
> 
> Do you believe it will get better over time, or is the batch ruined? How did yours taste at this stage? If it's ruined, I'd rather toss the lot and start again rather than wait a few weeks to complete and waist more resources.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Dragon Blood batch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20180512_183751
> 
> 
> 
> __ ringmany
> __ May 12, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



If it's still fizzing, it's probably still fermenting. Mine usually reaches a specific gravity of 0.988.


----------



## wildhair

Did you test the ph or Total Acidity (TA) ? I had problems with my first batch of DB as well - It was too acidic and had very little flavor and body - sort of watery. I posted my solutions to the acidity and the flavor issues here - 
https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/my-first-batch-of-dragons-blood.64861/ Post #11 & 12. 

I used calcium carbonate to reduce the acidity and then backsweetened with Old Orchard Berry Blend Juice concentrate (4 cans) and 2 cans of Welche's White Grape juice concentrate. It gave it more flavor, more body and took care of the acidity. 

I have yet to toss a wine - I believe you learn more from your failures than your successes. I would recommend siphoning out a gallon ( or 4 liters) and make your tests on that. If you can fix it, then just scale everything up for the rest of the batch.
Good luck.


----------



## opus345

Monty Knapp said:


> Just bottled a batch of DB that is all blackberry. Went with 1 cup sugar per gallon, which is a little sweeter than I like, but friends love it that way.
> View attachment 48233
> View attachment 48234



Great pix.

First batch used 12 lbs of Blackberrys and 2 bottles of Blackberry Brandy while I was back sweeting. 

Second batch is using the Blackberry concentrate from homewinery.com + 4 lbs of Blackberrys. I plan to use the Brandy during the back sweeting.

One of my most poplar Dragon's Blood variants.


----------



## Trog

I want to use a sweet cherry puree in the primary. Anybody tried this


----------



## willie

Trog said:


> I want to use a sweet cherry puree in the primary. Anybody tried this


Yes we have along with frozen cherry's from Kroger store. The wine turned out great. We drank a bottle of it last night. 

Will


----------



## Trog

Well decided to add the 3 lb can of Vintner's Reserve sweet cherry puree to the primary. It's been 5 days and I'm down to about 1.004. Went with KV1-1116 yeast. So far I have a nice color and a fruity smell.


----------



## willie

Trog said:


> Well decided to add the 3 lb can of Vintner's Reserve sweet cherry puree to the primary. It's been 5 days and I'm down to about 1.004. Went with KV1-1116 yeast. So far I have a nice color and a fruity smell.



Yep Vintner's Reserve is what we have been using for the Cherry, and Raspberry batches. 

Will


----------



## Trog

Willie how much are you using in a 6 gallon batch


----------



## willie

Trog said:


> Willie how much are you using in a 6 gallon batch



Just one can plus frozen fruit and some juice that matches the flavor we are making and or even Welches 100% white frozen grape juice to add body. We also on occasion use fresh bananas to the batch to also give the wine more body. 

Will


----------



## jumby

Has anyone used this recipe and made hard lemonade with it? I'm thinking about using the basic recipe and substituting 96 ounces of lemon juice for the fruit and making it into hard lemonade. Is there any reason this wouldn't work?


----------



## wildhair

Why not just use the Skeeter Pee recipe?


----------



## jumby

wildhair said:


> Why not just use the Skeeter Pee recipe?


I made this many times with fruit with great success and my thoughts are this would work. Thoughts?


----------



## dangerdave

Great work, everyone! I’m still learning from you all. Definitely going to try backsweetening with some brandy.

A few notes on DB for those making their first batch. New wines are tart. They lose it with aging. DB is SUPPOSED to be tart, so we’re kind of cheating. We can drink it right away, and enjoy the balance of sweet/tart without guilt. Mine never get to age. Not to say I don’t have a couple of five year old bottles hidden somewhere.
I have never tossed a batch. Nearly any problem can be solved. Never give up! Problem solving will be one of your most valuable wine making skills.
Some folks like theirs with more acid (me). I use the prescribed 48oz per six gallons, and also add 3 tsp of wine tannin for my wife (anti-inflammatory properties) and a bit of oak powder—cause I love what it does to the DB. I back sweeten with 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon, and we drink some ever evening after dinner without fail.
Keep thinking. Keep experimenting. Keep wining!
I’ll check back with you all later.
Dave


----------



## opus345

dangerdave said:


> Great work, everyone! I’m still learning from you all. Definitely going to try backsweetening with some brandy.
> Keep thinking. Keep experimenting. Keep wining!
> I’ll check back with you all later.
> Dave



Dave, great to see you checking in. I started making Dragons Blood to work on honing my skills before I jumped into making kits, juice buckets, and hopefully fresh grapes in the future. It has been a great ride and I'm using my DB knowledge on all my kit efforts now, but I keep coming back to experiment and try something new. The "fortified" DB Black Blood is so popular with friends and family, I've got all the barkeeps at a very large wine, beer, and spirit store asking me when the next batch is going to be bottled. Take care!


----------



## Monty Knapp

ringmany said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've started creating my first batch. I've just finished my fermentation stage and degassed the wine. I drank a small sample before adding my finings and it's incredibly sour. Gave a few people a sample and their cheeks swelled with the taste of sourness. It wasn't that pleasant, didn't taste fruity either. I'm uncertain exactly what I've done wrong, or if it will simply develop over time.
> 
> I had to convert everything to measurements such as grams and ounces. Added the equiveleant of 48 ounches of concentrated lemon juice, making it very acidic, it was fizzing even after fermentation completed. The gravity is currently 0.994.
> 
> Looking online, the sourness can be caused by too much acidic, too much tannin, or bacteria infection. I believe everything has been thrououghly sterlised, every time I interacted with the brew. There was a lot of acid in the 48 ounces of lemon juice ofc. Added 1tsp of the wine tannin.
> 
> Do you believe it will get better over time, or is the batch ruined? How did yours taste at this stage? If it's ruined, I'd rather toss the lot and start again rather than wait a few weeks to complete and waist more resources.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Dragon Blood batch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20180512_183751
> 
> 
> 
> __ ringmany
> __ May 12, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.




It's been awhile since this post. How did this turn out when you finished?


----------



## Certified

DB wine makers,. I am new. Doing 5gal.batch..frozen strawberry, pineapple, White grape concentrate, strawberry jam and preserves.Brown sugar sweetened.
Taste is good.


----------



## willie

Certified said:


> DB wine makers,. I am new. Doing 5gal.batch..frozen strawberry, pineapple, White grape concentrate, strawberry jam and preserves.Brown sugar sweetened.
> Taste is good.



Welcome aboard Certified. 
Got to say I haven't heard of that combination before. Have you bottled it yet?

Will


----------



## Jared Durham

I'm making this and a bit confused. I have removed the bag as instructed as I've fallen below a SG of 1. The instruction say to not move forward until you reach a negative gravity but then also say not to proceed until the gravity is stable at the same number for 3 days.

My reading just came out .990, my hydrometer doesn't go any lower than that. It's been below 1 for 4 days but not at a consistant number. Should I keep waiting or just put it into a secondary?

I'm just confused. Thanks for the help.

P.S. what's the harm at this point degassing and putting it into the carboy IF the SG hasn't remained the same for 3 days?


----------



## sour_grapes

If your SG is 0.990, you are safe to go into "secondary" now. (FWIW, it would ALSO be okay to wait the two additional days to make it 3 days in a row.) You are fine whichever way you decide to go.


----------



## Jared Durham

Thank you so much. I'll get it moved over tonight!!!


----------



## detlion1643

So it's been about 3 months since I've posted about my strawberry batch. If memory is correct I used 8 lbs of strawberries and about 5 - 5.5g of water. It finally became clear, so I decided to bottle tonight... Or I thought I could. The #8 corks I have I couldn't fit into the bottle via hand (have a floor corker ready for me as soon as I can come get it) so I ended up with about 15 bottles from a 5g secondary. I drank way too many glasses tonight so I end up with "less wasted".

The batch was backsweetened to about 1.010 - 1.015ish. The overall taste is still very "thin" to me. By "thin" I mean flavor wise, it seems to taste more tart and watery than strawberry. This is with even with a bunch of strawberry extract in the secondary. I'm not sure I'll be doing another strawberry again, this is about the 3rd-4th batch that has always ended up "not good".


----------



## meadmaker1

8 lbs is about a third of the amount of berries i would expect to use as a minimum for five gallons.


----------



## willie

detlion1643 said:


> So it's been about 3 months since I've posted about my strawberry batch. If memory is correct I used 8 lbs of strawberries and about 5 - 5.5g of water. It finally became clear, so I decided to bottle tonight... Or I thought I could. The #8 corks I have I couldn't fit into the bottle via hand (have a floor corker ready for me as soon as I can come get it) so I ended up with about 15 bottles from a 5g secondary. I drank way too many glasses tonight so I end up with "less wasted".
> 
> The batch was backsweetened to about 1.010 - 1.015ish. The overall taste is still very "thin" to me. By "thin" I mean flavor wise, it seems to taste more tart and watery than strawberry. This is with even with a bunch of strawberry extract in the secondary. I'm not sure I'll be doing another strawberry again, this is about the 3rd-4th batch that has always ended up "not good".



Yeh as Meadmaker said you need more strawberry's. I use 15 lbs of strawberry's and also add about 90 oz. or so of Daly's Strawberry Cocktail Mix that comes in 64 oz. bottles at our Kroger store. It's great to use not only for it's great flavor but it contains no seeds that you don't want. The strawberry's are just a little weak in giving the wine the flavor that you want. The extract is a good thing to add too if you desire. And a few drops on red food coloring before bottling will take that orange look out and make the wine nice and pink to a nice red color. Don't give up making it. Our Strawberry wine is a big hit with our friends and family.

Will


----------



## DriftlessDoc

So far I've made 3 kits, a couple fruit wines from concentrates, skeeter pee, and dragons blood. My DB is the only one that I felt was undrinkable. It had a weird leather/tobacco taste to it. I tried to overpower it by increasing the sweetness and it did not work. I'll try again probably over the winter. We win some and we lose some.


----------



## detlion1643

Yes, the 8lb's was light on the fruit I know, but it was given to me so essentially it was a free batch for experimental purposes if the extract can boost it back up enough in flavor. Not to my liking it didn't. The color has subsided and it is not orangeish but very a very light see through reddish.


----------



## abrewkat

Just sweetening my first batch of DB. Had a bunch of frozen mango and strawberries in the freezer, so am calling it a Dragon's Blood Tropicale... Started with 2L of unsweetened pineapple juice, some banana juice (5 bananas simmered in 1L of water for 30 min, then filtered), 3 lbs frozen mango, and 3.5 lbs frozen strawberries. Went from SG of 1.085 down to 0.098, stabilized and just sweetening tonight after I filtered it. Adding 3.75 cups of sugar (calculated 0.75 cup per gallon for 5 gallons, but I will have about 6 I think) dissolved in some Sovereign Opal wine, which has an almost mango flavour to it- I'm hoping it will complement the batch. It's very clear after the filtering, and has a nice peachy blush colour to it. Excited to try it!


----------



## willie

We want to make a Peach version to DB and plan on freezing the peaches before using in fermenter. Does anyone know if it's ok to use Balls Fresh Fruit to the peaches before freezing? I'm just not sure if any of the ingrediencies in Balls Fresh Fruit would cause a problem in the fermentation. 

Will


----------



## Johnd

willie said:


> We want to make a Peach version to DB and plan on freezing the peaches before using in fermenter. Does anyone know if it's ok to use Balls Fresh Fruit to the peaches before freezing? I'm just not sure if any of the ingrediencies in Balls Fresh Fruit would cause a problem in the fermentation.
> 
> Will



According to the website, Balls Fruit Fresh contains:
Ingredients: Dextrose, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Citric Acid, Silicon Dioxide (Anti-caking). Contains no sulfites.

Dextrose is a form of glucose and is OK, Ascorbic acid is an antioxidant used in winemaking to prevent browning of wines that are color sensitive and it’s OK, citric acid is naturally occurring in fruits anyway and inhibits browning and should be fine. Don’t know about silicon dioxide. 

Sounds like a sugary powder that fights oxidation and browning, doesn’t sound problematic to me, but maybe someone else has some experience to share.


----------



## willie

Ok thanks John


----------



## michael-s

Has anyone every used DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine recipe and instead of placing the fruit in a bag and removing and squeezing it every day during primary fermentation but instead
pressing the fruit using a 'grape/fruit press" right at the beginning and then placing that fruit into your fermentation pail, along with the required amount of water. I would enjoy to hear how it 
worked out. I just bought a grape/fruit press and I am going to go ahead and try pressing the fruit in the press for the 1st time to see how the wine turns out.
Looking forward to all your replies........... and any pictures you care to share. Thank you in advance.


----------



## dangerdave

This is my x3 Batch operation going on this morning.
The first batches I made, I simply tossed the fruit into the primary. It was quite “messy. When I started shooting for more flavor, I decided to use the bags and squeeze daily. Definitely, if I had a press, I would squash the fruit, then add skins and all to the primary. I think I would still use a bag for the skins to keep it clean. Definitely worth a go.
Please let us know how it turns out.


----------



## michael-s

Thanks for your reply. I am going to go ahead and see how it turns out. I would assume it will be just fine having the squeezed juice available right at the beginning, just like regular wine making.
I will probably toss in the skins too, contained in a bag.
In your picture you posted I see that large plastic container. Am I correct in assuming you did primary fermentation for all 3 batches at the same time in that container and you are now transferring to carboys to finish 
up secondary fermentation?
Great idea if that is the case.


----------



## dangerdave

That’s a food grade Brute trash can, 32 gallon capacity. I got tired of making so many single batches that now I stir them up three (18 gallons) at a time with nearly the same effort. Per the DB recipe, I let it go dry in the primary, then transfer-degass-fine-clear all in the final step. Did that today. In a couple of days it will be clear. I’ll then back sweeten, filter, and bottle. Arouund 12 days start to finish!


----------



## michael-s

I wrote down the name of your trash can and will see what I can find up here in Canada.


----------



## Jennifer Patterson

Hi All, I am new to winemaking, but I think I would like to give this one a try as one of my first. But in a 1-gallon batch, as currently I only have equipment for one gallon. I have read through the directions, and have a question, how do you handle the fruit fly issue. I see that he does not recommend snapping down the lid on the primary or using an airlock. Right now at this time of year, anything sweet or fruity in my home left out in the open is covered in fruit flies! I know that putting a cloth over the primary bucket would help, but I don't trust it. 

I have my first gallon of wine in the secondary right now, and those little suckers are squeezing through the holes in the airlock and drowning themselves! When I was fermenting in the primary bucket for it, I used the cloth, then put the lid on over it, the cloth around the edge outside the lid was covered in fruit flies all week. 

Also for the six-gallon recipe, he recommends one packet of yeast, does anyone know how much I would use for just one gallon?

Thank you 
Jenny P


----------



## Ajmassa

Jennifer Patterson said:


> Hi All, I am new to winemaking, but I think I would like to give this one a try as one of my first. But in a 1-gallon batch, as currently I only have equipment for one gallon. I have read through the directions, and have a question, how do you handle the fruit fly issue. I see that he does not recommend snapping down the lid on the primary or using an airlock. Right now at this time of year, anything sweet or fruity in my home left out in the open is covered in fruit flies! I know that putting a cloth over the primary bucket would help, but I don't trust it.
> 
> I have my first gallon of wine in the secondary right now, and those little suckers are squeezing through the holes in the airlock and drowning themselves! When I was fermenting in the primary bucket for it, I used the cloth, then put the lid on over it, the cloth around the edge outside the lid was covered in fruit flies all week.
> 
> Also for the six-gallon recipe, he recommends one packet of yeast, does anyone know how much I would use for just one gallon?
> 
> Thank you
> Jenny P



Well if the fruit flies were around the edges but not in the bucket then it sounds like it did its job no?
I get flies in the air locks occasionally too, and I just replace the water/solution. 
You can ferment under airlock just fine too. And just remove it every time u stir and squeeze the fruit bag. Just easier not to, but sometimes ya gotta call an audible. 
The yeast question, instead of adding 1/5th the packet I’d say your cool using about half the 5g packet for 1 gal batch. Good luck


----------



## M38A1

Quick question or two as I prepare for my first batch of this....

If I want to make straight blueberry, I have 10lbs of fresh blueberries. Would you use all 10lbs for a full batch?

And on the acid addition, the directions say everything from 48oz to none for lemon juice with some benefits for the full amount down to a different taste profile yet acceptable for none. Is it reasonable to follow the instructions up to just before yeast pitch and do the lemon juice/acid last, then simply do the taste test to see if it's where I'd like? Whatever the approach I'll still try to keep the pH in the 3.4-3.6 range simple for the yeast efficiency. 

Thoughts?


----------



## meadmaker1

If you are doing the original recipe and making six gallons definitely use all 10 lbs.
I think without the blend of the other fruits you end up with dark wine light on blueberry flavor.
Still drinkable but not fruity.
I would double the berries to at least 20lb for straight blue berry
But not my wine so
Look at a few blue berry wine posts then adjust for what you think will turn out like you want


----------



## M38A1

I suppose I'm confused on the recipe on page 1 then with it saying 6lbs of "Triple Berry Blend" for the batch. That seemed light to me so was that supposed to read 6lbs/gallon or 36lbs for a 6gal batch? Or 6lbs of each type of berry? I'm just not understanding that part.

In any case, I'll use the full 10lbs and I bought a bottle of the IKEA Blueberry syrup today on a whim. I suppose I can use that as a flavor enhancement? Or I'll run back to SAM's and get another 10lbs of blueberries.... Or more.


----------



## meadmaker1

So you question was 
Thoughts?
My thoughts are that the three berries compliment each other along with the acid from the lemon juice. 
Dave states that it is a light wine intended to be a quick drinker. 
I welcome contradiction but as a blue berry, i would expect a future post commenting on lack of blue berry flavor. 
Jackkeller.net will have some recipies. Generally his recipies are the minimum fruit most folks will use. 
Im not certain about blue berries but 3 lbs per gallon didnt impress me. It wasnt bad but just wine. However 3lbs per gallon following this recipiec
otherwise as a triple berry and using rhubarb for the acid in place of lemon has been one of my best creations.


----------



## M38A1

meadmaker1 said:


> So you question was
> Thoughts?
> My thoughts are that the three berries compliment each other along with the acid from the lemon juice.
> Dave states that it is a light wine intended to be a quick drinker.
> I welcome contradiction but as a blue berry, i would expect a future post commenting on lack of blue berry flavor.
> Jackkeller.net will have some recipies. Generally his recipies are the minimum fruit most folks will use.
> Im not certain about blue berries but 3 lbs per gallon didnt impress me. It wasnt bad but just wine. However 3lbs per gallon following this recipiec
> otherwise as a triple berry and using rhubarb for the acid in place of lemon has been one of my best creations.



That's what I love about this forum - real world experience and honest/open responses. So thank-you for the reply.

There's a little backstory I didn't share with this. My Dad is 93 and generally in good health yet we can see a decline in his mental health. He's been asking a ton of questions about my new wine making adventures and I thought it would be a wonderful thing to make a batch of something. Since he loves blueberries I thought I would do a blueberry, yet virtually every recipe indicates a year start to finish to fully achieve super results. I was pointed to this option as a 'quick drinker' and thought I could do blueberries to have a quicker turn time as we really don't know if there's a year left in this late season of his life. What I'm now coming to realize is, it's not the recipe/process that makes it a quick drinker. Rather, it's the choice of fruits used which lend itself to a quicker drinking time. Does that sound reasonable?


----------



## meadmaker1

Faced with your situation. I have new thoughts.
Go get the other berries and make the dragons blood. This should give you nice balanced base to work with. Then use the syrup you mentioned to back sweeten, this should boost the blue berry flavor. 
Using a heavier fruit percentage will add clearing time. 
Were available time is an undetermined factor i would be far less concerned with how clear it is and focus on taste. Unfortunately it takes a few miss steps to drive home the lesson of ballance so i wouldn't get to far away from the original receipe as it is tried and true.


----------



## M38A1

meadmaker1 said:


> Faced with your situation. I have new thoughts.
> Go get the other berries and make the dragons blood. This should give you nice balanced base to work with. Then use the syrup you mentioned to back sweeten, this should boost the blue berry flavor.
> Using a heavier fruit percentage will add clearing time.
> Were available time is an undetermined factor i would be far less concerned with how clear it is and focus on taste. Unfortunately it takes a few miss steps to drive home the lesson of ballance so i wouldn't get to far away from the original receipe as it is tried and true.



Ok, I'll give it a go with your guidance.

So for berries, I'm still not clear on fruit volumes....

I have 10lbs of fresh blueberries at the moment. Am I to go get 6lbs of of frozen raspberries, 6lbs of frozen blackberries and use my 10lbs of fresh blueberries for the six gallon version?


----------



## Johnd

Just get the 6 lbs of triple berry and add your 10# to it, it’ll be fine. FWIW, the DB recipe I’ve settled on uses 18# of the 3 berry mix, much better flavor. So you could double or triple the fruit if you like, comes out great.


----------



## M38A1

Johnd said:


> Just get the 6 lbs of triple berry and add your 10# to it, it’ll be fine. FWIW, the DB recipe I’ve settled on uses 18# of the 3 berry mix, much better flavor. So you could double or triple the fruit if you like, comes out great.



Thx John. I would up buying 6lbs of varying raspberries, blueberries and blackberries since the "triple blend" shelf was empty last night. I'm thinking I'll go pick up two more single pound bags and go with the 18# too!


----------



## meadmaker1

Of course you won't have anything to compair to but you ll be happier in the end with the added fruit


M38A1 said:


> Thx John. I would up buying 6lbs of varying raspberries, blueberries and blackberries since the "triple blend" shelf was empty last night. I'm thinking I'll go pick up two more single pound bags and go with the 18# too!


----------



## Johnd

I’ve made DB by the book, with double fruit, and triple fruit, the latter being the best. My next endeavor with this triple berry mix will be straight fruit with no added water. Plan on doing that towards the end of the year once the 2018 grapes are in the barrel. Probably let it mellow in a neutral barrel for a few months as well.


----------



## Jennifer Patterson

Day 4 of my second batch of wine, which is the Dragons blood, but only 2 gallons. I am at the point where I removed the fruit, the SG is, .994. But what the heck is "degassing" and how do I do it? Plus It turns out I don't have any potassium Metabisulfite, I do have the Potassium Sorbate. What does the Potassium Metabisulfite do? Can I move on without it? I also do not have the Sparkolloid or any clearing agent.


----------



## iridium

So I made my first batch of Dragon's blood and wanted to share the experience here. It is a 3 gallon batch of wine. i followed the original recipe exactly only halved the quantities. The only exception was I used the full 4 pounds of the triple berry mix.

This was a fun wine to make. My OG was 1.076 and final SG was .992 so I have an estimated ABV of 11%. This wine cleared beautifully and is a beautiful red coloring. The other change was that life happened so it aged about 3 weeks instead of the recommended two. I think that helped the wine actually. 

The taste is really good. I didn't over backsweeten, and everyone who has had it has enjoyed it. This includes in-laws, wife and parents. So definitely a crowd pleaser. Also this was one of the first wines I used the all-in-one wine pump and that made the racking and bottling much easier. Heartily recommend that useful tool.

Changes for the future:
1. I would back sweeten a little more as I like a sweeter wine
2. i would use less lemon juice. The taste pretty acidic still, for my palette, and I would like to have more fruit flavor in the wine.

Overall a great success and will definitely be making again. 

Thank you all for sharing your batches of this recipe.


----------



## iridium

Jennifer,

To answer your questions:
1. Potassium Metabisulphite (k-meta) adds free sulphite to the wine. That is necessary to protect the wine from over oxidization during the aging and storing process. if you don't add sulphite to the wine you will ave vinegar relatively quickly. I would recommend getting some from your local homebrew store (LHBS) and adding when you can. Wine can go for a little time without it, but really should have it as soon as fermentation is done. The general recommendation that I have found on these boards is 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons of wine for three months.

The clearing agents help settle out any suspended particles that might be in the wine. If you are looking to quickly bottle this wine then these agents will help ensure that you are bottling clear wine. When I am making a fruit or grape wine and know that I will be aging for months, I don't always use the clearing agents as time will also clear. They help speed up that process.

Hope that helps.
Iridium


----------



## Jennifer Patterson

iridium said:


> Jennifer,
> 
> To answer your questions:
> 1. Potassium Metabisulphite (k-meta) adds free sulphite to the wine. That is necessary to protect the wine from over oxidization during the aging and storing process. if you don't add sulphite to the wine you will ave vinegar relatively quickly. I would recommend getting some from your local homebrew store (LHBS) and adding when you can. Wine can go for a little time without it, but really should have it as soon as fermentation is done. The general recommendation that I have found on these boards is 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons of wine for three months.
> 
> The clearing agents help settle out any suspended particles that might be in the wine. If you are looking to quickly bottle this wine then these agents will help ensure that you are bottling clear wine. When I am making a fruit or grape wine and know that I will be aging for months, I don't always use the clearing agents as time will also clear. They help speed up that process.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> Iridium



Thank you! I do have some Campden tablets, can they be used like K-meta? I seem to remember reading that the tablets had K-meta in them.


----------



## iridium

Jennifer Patterson said:


> Thank you! I do have some Campden tablets, can they be used like K-meta? I seem to remember reading that the tablets had K-meta in them.



Yes you can use campden tablets. Use one per gallon to get an equivalent amount of sulfates. Make sure to crush them before hand to get them to dissolve better.


----------



## Jennifer Patterson

iridium said:


> Yes you can use campden tablets. Use one per gallon to get an equivalent amount of sulfates. Make sure to crush them before hand to get them to dissolve better.


Whew!! Then I am set, and can decide on the clearing agent later. Thank you


----------



## meadmaker1

Clearing agents aren't necessary, they may speed clearing but may change or add taste elements. gravity is as good a clearing agent as any. I like to add bentonite to my starting batches, it is clay, not a mixture of chemicals, it helps the fines to clump together and fall out. And its cheap


----------



## M38A1

Kicked off my first batch of DB last night and had to think a bit on the 'how' part as I progressed. The OP calls for a 7gal or larger PF vessel and mine is 6.9. When I got to the part about adding the fruit I looked at what volume was left in the PF and the bucket of fruit that needed to be added and thought to myself no-way that's going to fit. Since the 'stock' was all done short of fruit, I simply halved what I had prepared into another PF then added half the fruit to one and half to the other. I'll have a double gross lees scenario with this resulting in some minor additional loss, but hey - I got it in both PF's with room to spare. I wound up with 8lbs of blueberries in one and 8lbs of triple-blend mixed berries in the other. Seemed like an 'opportunity' to try two versions at that point. If this is as good as all 219 pages indicate, I guess I'll be looking for a 10gal PF so I can do it all in one shot. Yeast pitch is tonight!


----------



## Jal5

It is a favorite with myfamily and friends this summer. Joe


----------



## M38A1

Well crud..... Not sure what to do next but I probably have to do 'something' quickly. Got home late tonight, mixed up my 1118 and was ready to pitch. Pulled off both PF covers and the blueberry one had what appeared to be little spots of fuzz. I don't know if it's chemicals, but I DO know I pulled out some fuzzy blueberries from the batch I used. I washed them all under cool water before putting them in my nylon bag. I guess I'll pitch the yeast and see what happens. Totally bummed but I can understand with fruits this happens. I just don't know what steps to take.


----------



## meadmaker1

Did you mix campden tabs or k meta in your original mix. You see this step in many recipes. It stops wild yeast and helps preserve fruit while off gassing. Allowing all the elements of your mix to permeate each other. 
Pick out the fuzz you can and get the yeast on it. I'd wipe down the exposed areas in your bucket with a rag soaked in starsan or equivalent sanitizer


----------



## M38A1

meadmaker1 said:


> Did you mix campden tabs or k meta in your original mix. You see this step in many recipes. It stops wild yeast and helps preserve fruit while off gassing. Allowing all the elements of your mix to permeate each other.
> Pick out the fuzz you can and get the yeast on it. I'd wipe down the exposed areas in your bucket with a rag soaked in starsan or equivalent sanitizer



No, the original post in this thread doesn't call for it in Step 1 and like a good boy, I follow directions. I 'did' wonder about the missing k-meta and sitting for 24hrs but there are people a lot smarter and more experienced than I so I ran with what's written.

I've picked out what I can. Today I checked on it and don't really see any. I'm not so naive to think I got it all, but I did pitch the yeast and dunk the must bag a bunch so maybe the yeasties took care of it? I dunno..... 

So when it says "Stir vigorously", exactly what does that mean? I have a bit slotted spoon and this fancy plastic stick with weed-eater line on the end that said to be used for de-gassing. Do I just pull out the must bag into the clean/sanitized bowl then go to town for a minute with this gizmo and my cordless?

I just wish there was someone close to me I could watch throughout the entire process. Everyone has been so helpful here, but seeing it answers sooooooo many questions up front on things I don't even know to ask about.


----------



## willie

I believe Keith meant for you to put k- meta in your must because he thought you were using fresh fruit. You don't have to if using frozen fruit. And yes Dave does have in his recipe to wait for your Must to sit for 12-24 hours before adding yeast. The ferment goes so much better if you let it sit for a day.
I live in central ohio so if your near by your welcome to come and watch what ever of the process you want.
Take care and good luck with your wine making.

Will


----------



## M38A1

willie said:


> I believe Keith meant for you to put k- meta in your must because he thought you were using fresh fruit. You don't have to if using frozen fruit. And yes Dave does have in his recipe to wait for your Must to sit for 12-24 hours before adding yeast. The ferment goes so much better if you let it sit for a day.
> I live in central ohio so if your near by your welcome to come and watch what ever of the process you want.
> Take care and good luck with your wine making.
> 
> Will



Will, Thx for the invite but I'm down here in Texas so that'd be a hike! 

I wound up splitting the batch pretty much half frozen triple blend and half fresh blueberries. Just another thing to learn along the way I suppose. Fresh Fruit = k-meta for 24 hrs prior to yeast pitch. Frozen fruit - still wait 24hrs but no k-meta required. We'll see how it runs as I've already pitched the yeast.

Again, thanks.


----------



## willie

Yep it's a learning curve just as every thing we touch is.

Will


----------



## meadmaker1

I must admit, i read a lot of posts and forget sometimes the thread or even category that i am in. And at 220 posts in, the recipe is a ways back there. 
I personally have only been able to follow 1 recipe exactly "joes ancient orange"
Every thing else has been more less a perponderance of the collective variations i am able to find. What is in common with all or most,what are the comments folks have regarding the fruit or picking a yeast, and what routine i am more likely to follow.
Dragons blood is easy to mostly follow because it simply follows good standard practices and nothing extra like mlf , you dont need to worry about ph or ta but you can if you choose 
I make triple berry wine and my routine is so close i call it D B. I use more fruit and honey and 71b i always use frozen fruit but am mindful of temperatures if fruit gets warm it can fuzz fast. K meta should buy a little buffer time.


----------



## dangerdave

I did my best to include the answers to the most common questions in the OP recipe. The great people here are wonderful at following up on the rest. They helped me immensely in my first years as a wine maker, and many who made DB became the sounding board for refining the recipe.
But I digress...
I revised the recipe text several times in the first year just to cover common inquiries. I decided to stop revisions so there would not be ten versions on the internet (where nothing goes away), and make for confusion amongst the new wine makers.


----------



## Bleedaggie

Quick question. Completed step one. Adding yeast tomorrow. 6 gallon primary. When I added the fruit to the 6 gallons of water/juice/sugar, water displacement made a fool out of me. Siphoned off enough of the liquid to get the bag in tonight, but feel like I’m going to be awfully close to a mess when I add the yeast tomorrow. What do you think? Siphon it down to the 6 gallon mark to be sure, or let it ride?


----------



## meadmaker1

You should be ok depending on yeast and temperature, but i would put the whole thing in a bigger catch tub anyway. I use a cut 1/3 of a plastic barrel, a friend of mine uses a grout mixing tub that holds two buckets or car boys. 
You could pull off a gallon and ferment that in another container so when you rack you still have 6 gallons after leaving lees behind. 
That is an interesting jug should work well for dragons blood. But with a heavier fruit load i would start in a bucket.

This one is in a water bath with a wet canvas over it to keep it cool.


----------



## Bleedaggie

meadmaker1 said:


> You should be ok depending on yeast and temperature, but i would put the whole thing in a bigger catch tub anyway. I use a cut 1/3 of a plastic barrel, a friend of mine uses a grout mixing tub that holds two buckets or car boys.
> You could pull off a gallon and ferment that in another container so when you rack you still have 6 gallons after leaving lees behind.
> That is an interesting jug should work well for dragons blood. But with a heavier fruit load i would start in a bucket.View attachment 50384
> 
> This one is in a water bath with a wet canvas over it to keep it cool.


Thanks. Would you just put 1/6 of the yeast in the other primary?


----------



## meadmaker1

I would pour it all together stir it up then split it


----------



## dangerdave

Following the steps in the OP recipe, you should have only had four gallons of liquid in the fermented before you added the fruit. Lemon juice and then “water to four gallons”. I made the same mistake as you early on. If you have six gallons in a seven gallon bucket then try to add your fruit, it will be nearly over the top. Makes a mess fermenting. Siphon some off to make room, or as has been said, dump it all in a bigger container.


----------



## Bleedaggie

dangerdave said:


> Following the steps in the OP recipe, you should have only had four gallons of liquid in the fermented before you added the fruit. Lemon juice and then “water to four gallons”. I made the same mistake as you early on. If you have six gallons in a seven gallon bucket then try to add your fruit, it will be nearly over the top. Makes a mess fermenting. Siphon some off to make room, or as has been said, dump it all in a bigger container.



Thanks Dave. The recipe on page one has “bring water up to 6 gallons” before “add fruit.” No problem though. I should have used my brain instead of being a rule follower. Story of my life. Still going to be great. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## dangerdave

You are right! I believe that was corrected in a later version of the recipe. “Top up to six gallon mark” should be the last bullet in the first step. Unfortunately, the website won’t let us change old posts.


----------



## M38A1

Update on my first batch...

It's going swimmingly well I think!

I had to split the base stock into two primaries at about 3.5gal each with the fruit added since my 6.9 primary was not going to hold it all. That afforded me the opportunity to go straight fresh blueberry in one and the frozen mixed triple berry in the other. I learned along the way when using fresh fruit to use the Campden for 24hrs to prevent the fuzzies, and it's not needed for frozen fruit wines. BTW - the fuzzies are gone now. At day three or four now, things are still percolating along and SG's are about 1.2ish on both batches. It's a BEAUTIFUL color, smells wonderful and I can't wait!

Regarding the CO2 and releasing it..... I'm stirring it vigorously with a large spoon for about a minute. Is that sufficient or does it take more than that to release it properly? I can still see tiny tiny bubbles on the surface popping like gas being released. Is that the CO2? It's different than the 'rolling' action of the yeast rise and fall. Let me know on the big spoon/time to stir please. I also have a plastic rod with weed whacker line on it (bought at the wine making store) for my cordless if that's a better option.

Thanks!


----------



## dangerdave

The weed wacker tool is indeed the better option. The fizzing will continue until it’s dry. Wack it daily as the recipe instructs. Glad to hear it’s gojng well!


----------



## loopline

M38A1 said:


> Update on my first batch...
> 
> It's going swimmingly well I think!
> 
> I had to split the base stock into two primaries at about 3.5gal each with the fruit added since my 6.9 primary was not going to hold it all. That afforded me the opportunity to go straight fresh blueberry in one and the frozen mixed triple berry in the other. I learned along the way when using fresh fruit to use the Campden for 24hrs to prevent the fuzzies, and it's not needed for frozen fruit wines. BTW - the fuzzies are gone now. At day three or four now, things are still percolating along and SG's are about 1.2ish on both batches. It's a BEAUTIFUL color, smells wonderful and I can't wait!
> 
> Regarding the CO2 and releasing it..... I'm stirring it vigorously with a large spoon for about a minute. Is that sufficient or does it take more than that to release it properly? I can still see tiny tiny bubbles on the surface popping like gas being released. Is that the CO2? It's different than the 'rolling' action of the yeast rise and fall. Let me know on the big spoon/time to stir please. I also have a plastic rod with weed whacker line on it (bought at the wine making store) for my cordless if that's a better option.
> 
> Thanks!


As noted, the weed whacker is better, but if your going to manually stir it a whisk, ideally a bakers whisk is best. It has a lot of tines and you can not only stir it but you can try spinning the bakers whisk back and forth. This has a unique effect because its got so many tines that it agitates the a lot. 

The disadvantage of the weed whacker is that your not a really just agitating the liquid, your spinning all the liquid which can significantly lessen the effect because all the liquid is just moving with the "weed whacker string". It would be perfect if a drill were to spin one way then the reverse every second but thats of course not practical.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

~~~~~

On a different note, has anyone tried weighting the bag of fruit? 

What I mean is take like a glass weight and put it in the bag of fruit so that its always 100% submerged under the water. I was thinking perhaps better exposure and the fruit not hitting the air also being good. 

Not sure how heavy of a weight would be required Id have to test. Even a bunch of glass beads might work as they provide easy scale up when testing. 

Thoughts?


Also think this would work in a 6.5 gallon wide mouthed car boy, used as a fermenter?


----------



## meadmaker1

The first few days to a week seem to me to be the most critical days in the process.
Punching the cap gives me the chance to monitor what is going on. I like to stagger feed yeast neutreants, so i measure sg , mix the fruit , look smell taste, ect. 
A weight is one more thing to clean 
I dont tie my fruit bags I drape them over the sides of the bucket and tie them off, so i can stir the business out of the fruit.
Then lift it out when i think its time.


----------



## Venatorscribe

loopline said:


> As noted, the weed whacker is better, but if your going to manually stir it a whisk, ideally a bakers whisk is best. It has a lot of tines and you can not only stir it but you can try spinning the bakers whisk back and forth. This has a unique effect because its got so many tines that it agitates the a lot.
> 
> The disadvantage of the weed whacker is that your not a really just agitating the liquid, your spinning all the liquid which can significantly lessen the effect because all the liquid is just moving with the "weed whacker string". It would be perfect if a drill were to spin one way then the reverse every second but thats of course not practical.
> 
> Anyway, my 2 cents.
> 
> ~~~~~
> 
> On a different note, has anyone tried weighting the bag of fruit?
> 
> What I mean is take like a glass weight and put it in the bag of fruit so that its always 100% submerged under the water. I was thinking perhaps better exposure and the fruit not hitting the air also being good.
> 
> Not sure how heavy of a weight would be required Id have to test. Even a bunch of glass beads might work as they provide easy scale up when testing.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Also think this would work in a 6.5 gallon wide mouthed car boy, used as a fermenter?


Yes I weigh down my fruit bags. I normally use glass beads. But with larger bags and quantities I use a heavy glass paper weight. Giving it a spray with star san prior. I tie off my nylon bag with nylon gut.


----------



## dangerdave

The weights are a great idea, but not for me. Do what works for you. Since we’re on the topic, I use cheap ladies nylon stockings for my fruit bags. Full figure, knee high. Buy them by the box from Walmart. Tie them off, drop them in, squeeze them carefully, and toss them when they’re done.

Great conversation wine makers!


----------



## M38A1

I see a wine name something like "she's got legs....." with the above post.


----------



## Venatorscribe

dangerdave said:


> The weights are a great idea, but not for me. Do what works for you. Since we’re on the topic, I use cheap ladies nylon stockings for my fruit bags. Full figure, knee high. Buy them by the box from Walmart. Tie them off, drop them in, squeeze them carefully, and toss them when they’re done.
> 
> Great conversation wine makers!


Haha I would be concerned about all the cheap ladies from Walmart wandering around looking for their tights. Tossing them might be problematic and not so easy. Now I understand why you are known as Danger Dave.


----------



## MickeyB

Hi all! Previous lurker that felt the obligation to join and thank Dave for a great recipe. Am new to winemaking, and though the DB is batch #6, will be the first one bottled Saturday. Was looking for something quick while the others plod along and DB fit the bill. Other than using D47 (since I had it), followed the recipe for a six gallon batch to a t and went exactly as billed without a hitch. 

Curious whether anyone has tried a lemon/muscadine batch? Have tons and thought about trying it.

Thanks Dave, and everyone else who contributed to this thread! Have read every page multiple times and enjoyed every moment...


----------



## Bleedaggie

Do you guys with the AIO pump use the 1 micron filter to filter DB?

* Update. Talked with Steve and he confirmed 1 micron for Dragons blood. Just for future reference.


----------



## loopline

dangerdave said:


> The weights are a great idea, but not for me. Do what works for you. Since we’re on the topic, I use cheap ladies nylon stockings for my fruit bags. Full figure, knee high. Buy them by the box from Walmart. Tie them off, drop them in, squeeze them carefully, and toss them when they’re done.
> 
> Great conversation wine makers!


So Ive been entertaining the idea for days about using ladies stockings. My closest store is like 45 mins to buy fruit bags anyway, so it would be handy as I can get them at walmart 7 mins away. Plus easy cleanup. I got 50lbs of blueberries today and 12lbs of papays and so I need bags. 

My hesitation is that nylons aren't food grade and so are there chemicals and who knows what else left on the nylons that will get into the wine? Did you find any research on this? I mean alcohol is a decent solvent for those sort of things.


----------



## MickeyB

Was a little gun shy on the lemon/muscadine, so decided to try a single gallon batch first. Looks like it’ll be over pretty quick, as the sg has gone from 1.102 to .996 in 72 hrs.. Pitched the EC-1118 this time. Beautiful, bright red color at the moment. Can’t wait to sample it!


----------



## jumby

loopline said:


> So Ive been entertaining the idea for days about using ladies stockings. My closest store is like 45 mins to buy fruit bags anyway, so it would be handy as I can get them at walmart 7 mins away. Plus easy cleanup. I got 50lbs of blueberries today and 12lbs of papays and so I need bags.
> 
> My hesitation is that nylons aren't food grade and so are there chemicals and who knows what else left on the nylons that will get into the wine? Did you find any research on this? I mean alcohol is a decent solvent for those sort of things.




I've used nothing but nylons in all batches over year with no ill effects. I only use neutral colors to limit the amount of dyes.


----------



## sugar

jumby said:


> I've used nothing but nylons in all batches over year with no ill effects. I only use neutral colors to limit the amount of dyes.


I use them but I boil them first. That helps remove dye and sanitizes.
I double stuff,one into the other. Squize my friend squize. No worries.


----------



## jumby

sugar said:


> I use them but I boil them first. That helps remove dye and sanitizes.
> I double stuff,one into the other. Squize my friend squize. No worries.


I soak in mine in "one step" to sanitize them before using.


----------



## sugar

MickeyB said:


> Was a little gun shy on the lemon/muscadine, so decided to try a single gallon batch first. Looks like it’ll be over pretty quick, as the sg has gone from 1.102 to .996 in 72 hrs.. Pitched the EC-1118 this time. Beautiful, bright red color at the moment. Can’t wait to sample it!


Don't let those Muscadine grapes go to waste.
I have vines. My very first wine adventure was muscadine Wine. It's a year old and getting better. 
I recommend the use of grapefruit zest in the secondary (one grapefruit,) with a cup of dried currants.
And leave the juice on the skins for two days..then strain the must through double stuffed knee high full figured hose back in the primary bucket (adds o2) tye off and let ride in the primary squize and remove...finish...enjoy after 6 mo.at least.


----------



## MickeyB

sugar said:


> Don't let those Muscadine grapes go to waste.
> I have vines. My very first wine adventure was muscadine Wine. It's a year old and getting better.
> I recommend the use of grapefruit zest in the secondary (one grapefruit,) with a cup of dried currants.
> And leave the juice on the skins for two days..then strain the must through double stuffed knee high full figured hose back in the primary bucket (adds o2) tye off and let ride in the primary squize and remove...finish...enjoy after 6 mo.at least.



Been packing them into the freezer for jelly and wine, and love to reach in there and grab one frozen for a snack. 

Sounds like an excellent idea, sugar...will try! The sg on this batch is at .990 tonight, while another heavy fruit batch is still bubbling away in secondary. Pitched Red Star Classique in it and pulled the skins at around 1.030 when I racked it to secondary. Such fun and so many possibilities.


----------



## M38A1

Looking forward to racking my split batch of DB this weekend. The straight blueberry version keeps tempting me to pull it straight out of the carboy before bottling!


----------



## sugar

MickeyB said:


> Been packing them into the freezer for jelly and wine, and love to reach in there and grab one frozen for a snack.
> 
> Sounds like an excellent idea, sugar...will try! The sg on this batch is at .990 tonight, while another heavy fruit batch is still bubbling away in secondary. Pitched Red Star Classique in it and pulled the skins at around 1.030 when I racked it to secondary. Such fun and so many possibilities.


Don't forget the zest..it really gives a vitality depth to the wine. Personal taste is simi- sweet. Enhances the flavors.


----------



## loopline

M38A1 said:


> Looking forward to racking my split batch of DB this weekend. The straight blueberry version keeps tempting me to pull it straight out of the carboy before bottling!


I have a 6 gallon batch of blueberry wine going at the moment and Im with you, it looks quite delicious. 




jumby said:


> I've used nothing but nylons in all batches over year with no ill effects. I only use neutral colors to limit the amount of dyes.



It didn't occur to me to just juice my fruit. I hate messing with it anyway. Next round Im going to just try juicing the fruit and then Ill either heat the rest of the pulp in some water and add to the mix or Ill toss it in a bag and let it set for a day and take it out, just so I can get some color from the skin. 

That said my big issue is stirring. I just don't like to wash a spoon, sanatize it and mess with it twice a day. But I figured if I snap the lid on the bucket and take the air lock out, I can hold my finger over the air lock hole and give the bucket a hearty shack/rock back and forth and that gets my buy when Im in a hurry.


----------



## dangerdave

I stir mine once a day with a cordless drill and agitator.


----------



## sugar

I believe The open air stir, produces a fuller wine. The O2 does its Job better.
And think about it.. you can look at your creation daily... you are making something that is a first.
Don't forget the notes.
You may want to make it again.


----------



## loopline

sugar said:


> I believe The open air stir, produces a fuller wine. The O2 does its Job better.
> And think about it.. you can look at your creation daily... you are making something that is a first.
> Don't forget the notes.
> You may want to make it again.


Yeah when I plan stuff I make notes, but I wind up with a lot of fruit that is just going to go bad and so its random. Like sometimes I don't even eat that kind of fruit. So like with blueberry I take notes, but Ive got a pear nectarine wine going. I have no idea how many pears or nectarines are in there, I mean 7.1 Lbs combined, but Im going to keep winding up with random amounts of random fruit left. 

But thats ok, In time Ill learn how to combine random things and come out with good wine from seasonal fruit. 

I think stirring in Oxygen probably does help, but Ive got 4 kids, ranging ages 2 to 11 and when they are all around and Im trying to get stuff done, its like getting it shaken is all I can do. I work 7 days a week, 365 days a year from the time I get up till the time I go to bed. I only take breaks to spend time with family. So wine making is really just shunted in when I can manage the time to get it done. Maybe in 20 years when they are all out of the house Ill have enough time to do it as a proper hobby. But till then I do on a low priority basis as most everything else in my life I rank higher priority. So I do what can, learn and see what I get. If its drinkable Im happy, if I learn and improve with time, Im happy.


----------



## meadmaker1

I don't see any issue with random amount of mixed fruit until you discover you really like or do not like the ratio. Or think it might be better with another but cant recall if it had more "this" than "that" or the other way around.
If i was short the fruit i knew i needed to make a proven product i would rather by more than continue with a maybe.


----------



## Bleedaggie

Random question. Do you guys normally serve DB chilled?


----------



## Thig

Bleedaggie said:


> Random question. Do you guys normally serve DB chilled?


I do, really can't imagine drinking this one not chilled.


----------



## meadmaker1

I do.


----------



## sugar

loopline said:


> Yeah when I plan stuff I make notes, but I wind up with a lot of fruit that is just going to go bad and so its random. Like sometimes I don't even eat that kind of fruit. So like with blueberry I take notes, but Ive got a pear nectarine wine going. I have no idea how many pears or nectarines are in there, I mean 7.1 Lbs combined, but Im going to keep winding up with random amounts of random fruit left.
> 
> But thats ok, In time Ill learn how to combine random things and come out with good wine from seasonal fruit.
> 
> I think stirring in Oxygen probably does help, but Ive got 4 kids, ranging ages 2 to 11 and when they are all around and Im trying to get stuff done, its like getting it shaken is all I can do. I work 7 days a week, 365 days a year from the time I get up till the time I go to bed. I only take breaks to spend time with family. So wine making is really just shunted in when I can manage the time to get it done. Maybe in 20 years when they are all out of the house Ill have enough time to do it as a proper hobby. But till then I do on a low priority basis as most everything else in my life I rank higher priority. So I do what can, learn and see what I get. If its drinkable Im happy, if I learn and improve with time, Im happy.


Yep I understand that absolutely.
There are recipes that say,loose lid..and leave till secondary. It'll be good. We not absolute. If works do it
Sometimes those stews turn out to be a "Triumph my dear,a Triumph!" ..as Mr.Bob Crachit said.
Take your pleasure and enjoy.


----------



## Sue

Just going to start my first batch of this....making sure I am reading recipe correctly...... for five gallon batch it calls for 6 lbs of fruit? Just want to double check before I start...most of my other fruit recipes call for 4 lbs for a gallon so figured better safe to ask then sorry. Thanks in advance.


----------



## jumby

Sue said:


> Just going to start my first batch of this....making sure I am reading recipe correctly...... for five gallon batch it calls for 6 lbs of fruit? Just want to double check before I start...most of my other fruit recipes call for 4 lbs for a gallon so figured better safe to ask then sorry. Thanks in advance.


I use 9lbs of fruit for a 6 gallon batch. The original recipe is for 6 gallons, not 5.


----------



## Sue

jumby said:


> I use 9lbs of fruit for a 6 gallon batch. The original recipe is for 6 gallons, not 5.


Thanks, I will bump mine up to 9 then....I like a lot of fruit flavor.


----------



## iridium

The fruit is less because this is a quick wine rather than a long aging wine and the fruit blend provides a general flavor to the wine. I used four pounds for three gallons and it tastes great. It blends as it has aged in the bottles.


----------



## dangerdave

I still make mine with just one pound of fruit per gallon. You can easily adapt the recipe to your liking. Since it was originally designed to please my lovely wife, Johnna, it was born as a nice blush. My own version ended up with lots of extra tannin and some powdered oak. We still drink some every evening after dinner. We’re a Dragon Blood house around here!


----------



## M38A1

Bleedaggie said:


> Random question. Do you guys normally serve DB chilled?



I finished bottling my first batch Friday. I've had it both ways now and my friend prefers it chilled, I can go either way. I like it room temperature but in the summer I'm guessing it will be chilled for me.

Speaking of which, I made a fresh blueberry version (recipe and 10lbs fresh blueberries with 3/4C sugar per gallon as variables) and it was incredible. I tip my hat to Dave for this and without doubt will be making a lot of this. It's easy. It's good.


----------



## Sue

M38A1 said:


> I finished bottling my first batch Friday. I've had it both ways now and my friend prefers it chilled, I can go either way. I like it room temperature but in the summer I'm guessing it will be chilled for me.
> 
> Speaking of which, I made a fresh blueberry version (recipe and 10lbs fresh blueberries with 3/4C sugar per gallon as variables) and it was incredible. I tip my hat to Dave for this and without doubt will be making a lot of this. It's easy. It's good.


So you did the 20 cups sugar with additional 3/4 per gallon? Id love to try making blueberry.


----------



## Okie Parrish

The recipe calls for 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons of potassium meta when degassing but the package i got says 2/3tsp for 5 gallons witch one should i listen too


----------



## jumby

Okie Parrish said:


> The recipe calls for 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons of potassium meta when degassing but the package i got says 2/3tsp for 5 gallons witch one should i listen too


1/4 teaspoon is the correct amount for 6 gallons.


----------



## Okie Parrish

jumby said:


> 1/4 teaspoon is the correct amount for 6 gallons.


Thank you


----------



## loopline

Okie Parrish said:


> The recipe calls for 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons of potassium meta when degassing but the package i got says 2/3tsp for 5 gallons witch one should i listen too


For frozen fruit I don't think you actually need any, but I would still use it. In fact I follow a winery recipie and use 1g of potassium meta per gallon of water. I weigh it out on a kitchen scale. Standard campden tablets are 30 ppm when you use 1 per gallon (at least it says on my bottles) but 1g per gallon of granular potassium metabisulphite gives you 150ppm. 

I used only 60ppm on some fruit that was on its last leg and it went rotten on me. I hit it again with 150 and it took away the smell and rotten taste and I belive it saved it, its still aging. At any rate, if you over do it on potassium meta, at least to a point, you can just let it set a little longer and gas off. But again with frozen fruit, they freeze it typically within a matter of hours after picking so its not so much a big deal, but I still use it.


----------



## Hotel Guy

What do you guys usually top this off with to remove head space?


----------



## jumby

Hotel Guy said:


> What do you guys usually top this off with to remove head space?


Any cheap, white zinfandel works well.


----------



## Hotel Guy

jumby said:


> Any cheap, white zinfandel works well.



Thanks!


----------



## Keith5

Do you not add potassium metabisulfite in Step 1? How are the wild yeasts in the fruit killed off so they do not overtake primary fermentation? I see why adding kmeta in Step 4. Am I missing something? Thanks


----------



## jumby

Keith5 said:


> Do you not add potassium metabisulfite in Step 1? How are the wild yeasts in the fruit killed off so they do not overtake primary fermentation? I see why adding kmeta in Step 4. Am I missing something? Thanks



There's no need to add k-meta to the primary if using frozen fruit. The wild yeast will be killed off when the fruit is flash frozen. Fresh fruit, that's a different story.


----------



## cmason1957

jumby said:


> There's no need to add k-meta to the primary if using frozen fruit. The wild yeast will be killed off when the fruit is flash frozen. Fresh fruit, that's a different story.


Freezing doesn't kill most yeasts, it might stun them for a bit, but doesn't kill.


----------



## Keith5

Thanks for the replies. I think both are very valid. I understand the thoughts. Thanks


----------



## Okie Parrish

Keith5 said:


> Do you not add potassium metabisulfite in Step 1? How are the wild yeasts in the fruit killed off so they do not overtake primary fermentation? I see why adding kmeta in Step 4. Am I missing something? Thanks


 talk about deja vu.....when I found this recipe last month it was the only recipe I had ever seen that didnt use Camden tabs a day b4 yeast.
I'm still vary new at this so I could be completely wrong but don't Kmeta and sodium meta do the same thing at least at this point? If so then you probably already added sodium metabisulfate since most bottled lemon juices use it as a preservative.


----------



## Johnd

Okie Parrish said:


> talk about deja vu.....when I found this recipe last month it was the only recipe I had ever seen that didnt use Camden tabs a day b4 yeast.
> I'm still vary new at this so I could be completely wrong but don't Kmeta and sodium meta do the same thing at least at this point? If so then you probably already added sodium metabisulfate since most bottled lemon juices use it as a preservative.



They do the same thing, just taste differently, you don’t want Na Meta in your wine.


----------



## Johnd

Keith5 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I think both are very valid. I understand the thoughts. Thanks



Are you making the Dragons Blood wine?


----------



## Keith5

Not yet. As we discussed I’m going to start the Wild Grapes California Cab this week and I ordered the WE Eclipse Lodi Cab2. Kit you recommended. That’ll satisfy me for a bit lol


----------



## Johnd

Keith5 said:


> Not yet. As we discussed I’m going to start the Wild Grapes California Cab this week and I ordered the WE Eclipse Lodi Cab2. Kit you recommended. That’ll satisfy me for a bit lol



Sounds like a promising start! Good luck with them, you'll really like the Lodi Cab kit. If you have any questions as you go along, there are always lots of capable folks available here to offer sound advice.


----------



## almargita

For some reason Aldis have currently has on sale at half price 3 lb frozen bags of Triple Berry Blend for $4.50 per bag! Started a 6 gal batch last week & currently progressing nicely. Went back yesterday & still had some left so bought 4 more bags....... Using 9 lb in the 6 gal batch that in the primary now. Can't wait till its ready.........
Al


----------



## Okie Parrish

Iv been on several sites searching an answer but only get more confused I may have already asked here if so I'm sorry for being a bother iv got some DB clearing right now I added bentonite and pectic enzyme at primary and after I deggaessed I used sparkloid it settled about an inch over night then just stopped I waited 2 weeks racked it and hit it with sparkloid again its been another 2 weeks and its just not clearing its still vary cloudy and dark can barely see light thru it and vary little settled at the bottoms...the room temp has been kept between 69-72......should I try pectic enzyme again another shot of bentonite or is there something else......I just wana try and be able to bottle in a month so its has time to rest in the bottle b4 I give it as Christmas presents


----------



## jumby

I gave up on sparkloid long ago. Hit it with a dose of Dualfine. It should clear in a matter of days.


----------



## Hotel Guy

Just bottled my first batch yesterday and chilled a couple glasses last night before dinner. It’s very good! Sweet and tart at the same time, with a nice berry flavor. It was about 30 days from start to finish, and probably $25 in material (I scraped old bottles).

Excited to see how it changes as it ages a few months. I’ve heard it smoothies out and more berry comes out. Sound about right? Definitely going to make a late winter batch to be ready for spring as these 30 bottles will not make it until then. Thanks for the recipe/help!


----------



## dangerdave

One of the first lessons I learned in wine making is that nearly every case of cloudy wine is due to pectin haze. Rack it again, make sure it is properly degassed, and dose it again with pectic enzyme. Let it sit for a week. It should be much clearer.

I have also given up on sparkoloid long ago. I’m a kieselsol and chitosan guy now. The original DB recipe was designed to be as inexpensive as possible, and sparkoloid is pennies per dose.


----------



## G259

cmason1957 said:


> Freezing doesn't kill most yeasts, it might stun them for a bit, but doesn't kill.



Perhaps the wine yeast takes over, and doesn't allow the stunned yeast to develop further? . . . or is this Russian Roulette?


----------



## rca

I started my winemaking journey yesterday with a batch of DB. Here’s a picture from today after pitching yeast (and stirring). I did add some oak chips and I used about 8lbs of triple berry. 


Thanks for the recipe and great thread Dave.


----------



## Countrygent

While committed to some frozen pinot noir buckets, and knowing how impatient I can be, I thought it would be easy to fire up a test run of DB at the same time. A little extra fruit in an extra bag of raspberries, a little less lemon juice but added a small amount of acid blend. The other variation I made was to put the fruit and enzyme in just enough water to cover as the very first step to let the fruit warm up and soften for a few hours ... in a six gallon fermenting bucket it was easy to then lift the bag up to the edge, pour in the lemon, sugar, other ingredients and stir it up below the bag, then top with water to the right mark and drop the bag back in - one less container to clean. Also added a little oak - some cubes taken out of a prior red wine ferment I had plopped in a jar to marinate in a little bourbon for a few days went into the bag for easy later disposal. My bourbon barrel variation. I'm curious never having made fruit wine is how good it can be finished pretty dry without having to back sweeten too much. The price is most definitely a big plus for experimenting. What a bargain and not a lot of trouble if you love it?


----------



## dangerdave

I know some who like DB dry. Not my thing. I like my red wines dry and my fruit wines sweet/semi-sweet.
I use oak powder in my DB nowadays. I just love oak in all my wines.
Your Bourbon Barrel variation sounds interesting. Please let us know how it turns out.


----------



## Countrygent

Will do, Dave.

My views won’t have any baseline comparison though. First DB rodeo!


----------



## abrewkat

A quick question about the taste of DB-- I haven't made classic DB myself yet- I did a tropical blend from freezer fallout, and it was great! Used pineapple juice and some banana instead of the lemon juice, then a bunch (4-6 lbs of each) of mango and strawberry- I'd add some lemon juice next time as this was a little soft for my liking. Some friends made classic DB (though less lemon juice as they don't like tartness) and it was very light on fruit flavour, and tasted almost perfume-y or floral... like it was run through dryer sheets or something. Is this normal? I'd like to make a batch of triple berry, but not if it generally turns out like that. Thoughts?


----------



## Countrygent

abrewkat said:


> A quick question about the taste of DB-- I haven't made classic DB myself yet- I did a tropical blend from freezer fallout, and it was great! Used pineapple juice and some banana instead of the lemon juice, then a bunch (4-6 lbs of each) of mango and strawberry- I'd add some lemon juice next time as this was a little soft for my liking. Some friends made classic DB (though less lemon juice as they don't like tartness) and it was very light on fruit flavour, and tasted almost perfume-y or floral... like it was run through dryer sheets or something. Is this normal? I'd like to make a batch of triple berry, but not if it generally turns out like that. Thoughts?


You have the option of adding an acid blend or straight tartaric acid to get acid balance without so much lemon. I don’t have enough experience to suggest how much, but if you search the internet looking at fruit wine recipes you might get some idea. I don’t trust the generic instructions on bottles of additives - as well the usual advice is go in fractions and taste to try and find your preferred balance. Testing for ph and TA might also be helpful?


----------



## Bleedaggie

abrewkat said:


> A quick question about the taste of DB-- I haven't made classic DB myself yet- I did a tropical blend from freezer fallout, and it was great! Used pineapple juice and some banana instead of the lemon juice, then a bunch (4-6 lbs of each) of mango and strawberry- I'd add some lemon juice next time as this was a little soft for my liking. Some friends made classic DB (though less lemon juice as they don't like tartness) and it was very light on fruit flavour, and tasted almost perfume-y or floral... like it was run through dryer sheets or something. Is this normal? I'd like to make a batch of triple berry, but not if it generally turns out like that. Thoughts?



Not normal. We are still drinking my first batch which I did exactly like Dave’s recipe called for. It’s excellent, and has only improved over the 3 months since I bottled it. No floral dryer sheet anything. I wonder if your friends used some kind of soap to wash their equipment at some point?


----------



## dangerdave

abrewkat said:


> A quick question about the taste of DB-- I haven't made classic DB myself yet- I did a tropical blend from freezer fallout, and it was great! Used pineapple juice and some banana instead of the lemon juice, then a bunch (4-6 lbs of each) of mango and strawberry- I'd add some lemon juice next time as this was a little soft for my liking. Some friends made classic DB (though less lemon juice as they don't like tartness) and it was very light on fruit flavour, and tasted almost perfume-y or floral... like it was run through dryer sheets or something. Is this normal? I'd like to make a batch of triple berry, but not if it generally turns out like that. Thoughts?



Those floral tastes/smells usually come from too much sorbate. I’ve done that before. My thoughts have always been that the acid from the lemon juice plays a significant part in extracting flavor from the fruit, particularly the skins. Experimentation early on with the DB recipe showed two other factors in flavor depth. Fermentation temp: primary temps at the upper end of yeast tolerance also contribute to flavor extraction. Quality of the fruit: I have tried many sources. The best results for me have come from using Wyman’s Triple Berry blend, available at Walmart. Accept no substitute.


----------



## Johnd

I have a DB variant that I'm trying this year, no lemon juice, acid adjusted with tartaric, Lallzyme EX-V, tsp tannins, 60 lbs triple berry, very little water, sugar to 1.110, KV1-1116 temp spiked up into the high 80's. Been done a few months and sitting in a six and one gallon vessel clearing (got 7 gallons). It was a bear to press with all of the tiny particulate matter from the raspberries and blackberries, they just broke down into sludge. Haven't tasted it yet and probably won't fool with it until this years wine goes into the barrel, smells super good and very fruity so far.


----------



## abrewkat

Thanks Bleedaggie and dangerdave! I had been reluctant to try it if it was going to turn out like that. They are very new to the process, so it could be some soap residue, or too much sorbate. I'll definitely keep that in mind, and will work a Triple berry into my schedule. Don't think they have Wyman's here, but I'll definitely look! Happy fermenting!


----------



## rca

Wow, took a week, but I read the whole DB thread. I've got several versions to try now.

Reporting in on my first triple berry batch, day 6 and I'm down to .993 and it smells great.

Thanks all.


----------



## dangerdave

Keep us appraised!


----------



## rca

OK, racked from primary tonight, but now I'm confused about a couple of additions in the secondary. 

I think the original recipe says to add the sulfite and sorbate, degas and then add the clearing agent. Is this all done on the same day? I think Dave also said he likes to add 3 tsp of tannin in secondary. When would this be added in the process, before the clearing agent?

Thanks for the assistance, this is my first attempt at wine making.


----------



## jumby

rca said:


> OK, racked from primary tonight, but now I'm confused about a couple of additions in the secondary.
> 
> I think the original recipe says to add the sulfite and sorbate, degas and then add the clearing agent. Is this all done on the same day?



Yes this step is all done on the same day. Let clear for a week, then back-sweeten.


----------



## dangerdave

I add my tannin to the primary but it can also go in the secondary just as well.

Like jumby says. Do the dining and the clear on the same day.

Best of luck rca!


----------



## rca

dangerdave said:


> I add my tannin to the primary but it can also go in the secondary just as well.
> 
> Like jumby says. Do the dining and the clear on the same day.
> 
> Best of luck rca!



Thanks for the clarification. 

I thought I read somewhere in the thread you add tannins in primary and secondary?


----------



## Countrygent

Bottled today after a 10 day rest post-sparkaloid. 20 days start to finish. Looks crystal clear. Taste ... pretty balanced and drinkable, only put 1/3 cup sugar per gallon to backsweeten. Unstructured though, the light oak tastes ‘on top’ not integrated - can’t quite figure whether the bourbon I tried to sterilize my oak cubes with by soaking for a few days comes through or not. 

I’m hoping a few weeks or months in the bottle it will smooth out and get more fruit-forward. Had two glasses left in the bucket beyond the full bottles ... holy mackerel easy to drink and packs a punch. I think probably best to warn people if they are drinking it like beer or a cooler that they are in the fast lane.


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, it should come with a warning 

It will improve over time. Particularly in the first couple of months. Mine rarely lasts that long.


----------



## Countrygent

Johnd said:


> I have a DB variant that I'm trying this year, no lemon juice, acid adjusted with tartaric, Lallzyme EX-V, tsp tannins, 60 lbs triple berry, very little water, sugar to 1.110, KV1-1116 temp spiked up into the high 80's. Been done a few months and sitting in a six and one gallon vessel clearing (got 7 gallons). It was a bear to press with all of the tiny particulate matter from the raspberries and blackberries, they just broke down into sludge. Haven't tasted it yet and probably won't fool with it until this years wine goes into the barrel, smells super good and very fruity so far.


.
I found an old book, The Art of Making Wine, Anderson & Hull, (Penguin, 1970), was surprised to read this: After much experimentation I began to suspect that fruit wines were improved by reducing the fruit content in relation to sugar and water ... low fruit content, 2 to 4 Lbs per gallon, yields a wine in which the basic fruit is not identifiable, which can be mistaken for one made from pure vinifera grapes. 

He goes on to suggest trying an experiment with more and less fruit and comparing after six months and then a year aging, and that heavy fruit will require aging for a year or two longer to be drinkable ... 

There was quite a bit of outdated info in the book - especially how few grape varieties were accessible to amateurs, how yeast strains and chemicals were very difficult to access, how few concentrates could be sourced. I got a kick out of repeated references to going to your local cooperage for various barrel issues.

In any event, surprising and counter-intuitive that maybe less fruit could be better. I suppose the only way to find out what we prefer is to try both ways. You have “a lot of fruit” covered in that batch?

I


----------



## Johnd

Countrygent said:


> .
> I found an old book, The Art of Making Wine, Anderson & Hull, (Penguin, 1970), was surprised to read this: After much experimentation I began to suspect that fruit wines were improved by reducing the fruit content in relation to sugar and water ... low fruit content, 2 to 4 Lbs per gallon, yields a wine in which the basic fruit is not identifiable, which can be mistaken for one made from pure vinifera grapes.
> 
> He goes on to suggest trying an experiment with more and less fruit and comparing after six months and then a year aging, and that heavy fruit will require aging for a year or two longer to be drinkable ...
> 
> There was quite a bit of outdated info in the book - especially how few grape varieties were accessible to amateurs, how yeast strains and chemicals were very difficult to access, how few concentrates could be sourced. I got a kick out of repeated references to going to your local cooperage for various barrel issues.
> 
> In any event, surprising and counter-intuitive that maybe less fruit could be better. I suppose the only way to find out what we prefer is to try both ways. You have “a lot of fruit” covered in that batch?
> 
> I



Interesting take on the issue, but I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to fruit wines (which I've not made a lot of). I prefer as little water as possible, shooting for a fruit wine as opposed to a fruit flavored wine. I put just enough water in the the triple berry mix as I deemed necessary to get it to be relatively fluid like a grape must. Don't hurry my wines much at all, and haven't tasted this one yet, though it's probably still pretty green and rough around the edges. It has a very pleasing, fruity nose at the moment. The plan is to do some bench trials next year and sweetening if it's in order, and do want to bottle some of it without any sugar added at all to see how it improves or gets worse with age. It's pretty much an experiment, just have to wait to see how it evolves as time passes.........


----------



## JMStudios

Hi all, I'm only about 80 pages into the 224 pages of this thread, but I'm already fascinated. I just started my first batch of DB tonight. I followed the original recipe, cutting down on the lemon as I've read. The only change I made is that I used all blackberry instead of the triple berry, just because I've never been crazy about raspberry. Very excited to see how this goes. I'd love to have something to partake in, while I wait for my other wines to age as long as those directions call for.
Photo is my very first DB, behind it you can see my first Blueberry wine following the directions in the little purple book I got from my LHBS. About to rack that to a smaller carboy since it's almost dry.


----------



## Countrygent

I wonder if there was a stronger inclination among home vintners 48 years ago to try and emulate commercial grape wine styles as it must have been quite a challenge with limited grape/must sources or choices to make good varietal grape wines at home. 

When I recall the kind of wine that was widely popular when I was a kid - cheap Gallo wines, horrible sweet Black Tower, Baby Duck, those Boones Farm fruit wines, it was a different time for sure. Of course there was excellent wine available as well, but probably not nearly as widely accessible as today. I have wondered when you read a book that says ‘they served an excellent claret’ from the 1920’s whether it truly was excellent by today’s standards, or closer to two buck chuck. Before a more scientific approach, accessible chemistry testing and much more access to corrective additives ... so I read that with a huge grain of salt, thought it was interesting that more fruit forward was not the goal. As this monster thread indicates, so much experimentation and differing preferences can be pursued now with access to ingredients but also much more information. We can be thankful for that!


----------



## MickeyB

My second batch of DB is clearing, with four bottles squirreled away from the first batch. Plan on sweetening this one with some niagara concentrate. Used it to sweeten a mscadine/cherry batch and was very pleased. The sweetness doesn’t seem to layer so, if that makes any sense at all.


----------



## RadRob

Can someone tell me why DB is ready to drink sooner than other wines? I'm new to wine making and trying to learn what makes it mature faster vs everything I've read about letting it age.


----------



## dangerdave

I love this question! It strikes at the very heart of the DB phenomenon. Lol
To put it simply, we’re cheating!
Follow me on this. Young wines are universally tart. This tartness mellows over time as they age into maturity, allowing the background flavors to come forward. You guys know this!
So, what if we made a wine that was SUPPOSE to be tart! We can drink it right away because—in my opinion—it’s better that way. I got the idea after making my first batch of home made wine, which was Lon DePoppe’s Skeeter Pee. I wanted a blush rather than a lemonade, so I tossed in some fruit. The rest is history!


----------



## RadRob

Does back sweetening cut down the tart flavor? What's the closest wine it tastes like when finished?

I started a 4 gallon batch on the 21st using mostly the original recipe. I used 6 lbs of berries and one container of Welsh's white grape juice. It smells good and has excellent color already.

I want to start another batch using less lemon juice to taste the difference. How much less lemon juice is everyone using? Has anyone tried citric acid instead of the lemon juice?

FYI, I took recommendations from some of the post in this thread and went to Dollar Tree, they have 12 oz bags of mixed berries, black, straw and raspberries for a whole buck. You can't beat $1.40 a lb for frozen fruit.


----------



## willie

We buy our lemon juice at Wally World. There lemon juice comes in a 32 oz. Great Value bottle that we use for a six gallon batch of DB. And some times we use half lemon juice and half lime juice. We buy the Wyman's Triple Berry and Spring water there also. We find that Rual King has the cheapest cane sugar. We have been making Dave's recipe for 5-6 years now and make a few different variants of it like Raspberry, Strawberry, Tropical, Blue Berry and our latest was a Peach that turned out just great. 

Will


----------



## MickeyB

RadRob said:


> Does back sweetening cut down the tart flavor? What's the closest wine it tastes like when finished?
> 
> I started a 4 gallon batch on the 21st using mostly the original recipe. I used 6 lbs of berries and one container of Welsh's white grape juice. It smells good and has excellent color already.
> 
> I want to start another batch using less lemon juice to taste the difference. How much less lemon juice is everyone using? Has anyone tried citric acid instead of the lemon juice?
> 
> FYI, I took recommendations from some of the post in this thread and went to Dollar Tree, they have 12 oz bags of mixed berries, black, straw and raspberries for a whole buck. You can't beat $1.40 a lb for frozen fruit.



Back sweetening does reduce it, Rob. Will cut it completely out if you can stand it that sweet, lol. Be careful though, a little time alone will tame it fairly quickly, so stop a little short of where you like it.

Have made a few different wine batches using the same technique with acid rather than the lemon. Still tart without a little aging or some sweetness added. Will confess straight up to having no love for dry wines, so experimenting with varying degrees of sweet as I go. Such fun!


----------



## dangerdave

You are all brilliant! What a great bunch of winemakers!


----------



## KCCam

I am a brand new member of winemakingtalk. I joined specifically because I stumbled upon dangerdave's Dragon Blood recipe a couple of days ago. I've made 3 or 4 wine kits a year since I started in 2012 and always wanted to make something from scratch. Well, now I can't wait! This thread really is a page-turner, but I'm only on page 11 so far - I've got a little way to go. I know it's frowned upon to ask questions before thoroughly searching for the answers first, but this is a LONG thread. I promise I'll spend more time reading in the days to come, but I want to get my first batch of DB started as soon as possible, so it will be ready in time for Christmas.

Sticking to the recipe as closely as possible on my first attempt would be the safest route, but I like to live on the edge, and I'm opting to make a couple of changes. Please let me know if this sounds OK, or if you have any suggestions or warnings.

Costco sells the triple berry blend here in Canada in 2 kg (4.4 lb) bags. It seems there are people who prefer more berries in the must than the 6 pounds the recipe calls for, so I plan to use 2 bags (8.8 lbs).
Should I increase the 3 tsp pectic enzyme proportionally (to 4.5 tsp), or keep it at 3 tsp?
I'd like to bump the alcohol content a bit. In the reading I have done, I've noticed some going as high as 1.110 initial gravity. Would the extra fruit help balance that, or should I go lower? I do like strong wine (and beer).
The original recipe called for 96 oz of lemon juice, I believe. Most preffered less, and the recipe now calls for 48 oz. Would higher fruit and alcohol levels tend to increase the need for the acid, or decrease it? I don't expect this batch will be getting aged more than a few weeks! ;-) ... (or days??)
Would anything else in the recipe need to be adjusted to account for the extra fruit and alcohol?
This looks like a really great forum, with just the experts I've been looking for. I don't feel so alone anymore. Again, I'm sure I'll be able to answer most of these questions myself in a few days, after reading more of this thread, but I would really appreciate help getting a jump on this batch. Thanks.

Oh, and I'm really looking forward to reading more about the DB Port that I saw mentioned somewhere, and how it turned out. (I love port.)


----------



## JMStudios

KCCam, I'm the least qualified to answer you, but I did read all 4482 posts on this thread and it felt like a triumph when I finished it. haha. 
My first batch is coming along to plan just about perfectly, and I didn't deviate from the recipe except for using all blackberries instead of triple berry. 

My thinking is that since you want it ready by Christmas, I wouldn't do anything that would prolong the fermentation or cause clearing to take longer. 
Experts correct me, but wouldn't a higher SG take an extra couple of days to ferment dry?


----------



## jumby

JMStudios said:


> KCCam,
> Experts correct me, but wouldn't a higher SG take an extra couple of days to ferment dry?



Not necessarily, I push the limits on SG in all my batches and they normally ferment dry in 5 days.


----------



## Johnd

KCCam said:


> Costco sells the triple berry blend here in Canada in 2 kg (4.4 lb) bags. It seems there are people who prefer more berries in the must than the 6 pounds the recipe calls for, so I plan to use 2 bags (8.8 lbs).
> Should I increase the 3 tsp pectic enzyme proportionally (to 4.5 tsp), or keep it at 3 tsp?
> I'd like to bump the alcohol content a bit. In the reading I have done, I've noticed some going as high as 1.110 initial gravity. Would the extra fruit help balance that, or should I go lower? I do like strong wine (and beer).
> The original recipe called for 96 oz of lemon juice, I believe. Most preffered less, and the recipe now calls for 48 oz. Would higher fruit and alcohol levels tend to increase the need for the acid, or decrease it? I don't expect this batch will be getting aged more than a few weeks! ;-) ... (or days??)
> Would anything else in the recipe need to be adjusted to account for the extra fruit and alcohol?





Welcome to WMT!! I'll try to answer your questions, and am sure some others will chime in as well.

1. The amount of berries you decide to use is mostly about personal preference. I've done batches with the recommended amount, twice that amount, triple that amount, and most recently one with 60 pounds of berry mix (only had to add one gallon of water). 
2. You really can't overdose a wine with too much pectic enzyme. Having said that, I've not increased the dosage in any of my batches and they've all cleared just fine.
3. If you like your wines with stronger taste and alcohol (I do as well), feel free to bump it up. Yes, increasing the fruit content will boost the body and flavor in the wine, which will help balance out the alcohol. You may notice that the alcohol is more prevalent before back sweetening, the sweetness will also help bring out the fruit and works to balance the ABV.
4. If you have the ability to measure pH, you could just use the required amount of lemon juice to get your pH where you want it. Personally, I don't use any lemon juice, preferring to adjust the acidity with acid blend to get the must into the 3.4 - 3.5 range.
5. See number 3.

Good luck!!!!!


----------



## KCCam

Johnd said:


> 1. The amount of berries you decide to use is mostly about personal preference. I've done batches with the recommended amount, twice that amount, triple that amount, and most recently one with 60 pounds of berry mix (only had to add one gallon of water).


Thanks Johnd, for your input! I read about your 60 lb batch. You didn’t even increase the pectic enzyme for that much? Have you tasted it yet? I’m partly interested in SP/DB for being such a _*low*_-*cost*, well-documented, and evidently wonderful alternative to kits. 60 lbs of triple berry here would cost $160 (but that’s Canadian, so maybe about US$120).


----------



## KCCam

Johnd said:


> Yes, increasing the fruit content will boost the body and flavor in the wine, which will help balance out the alcohol.


I’ve read about bananas increasing body and flavour too. How many bananas are we talking about? Banana bread works great with over-ripe bananas, but I’m guessing you would want just-ripe bananas in wine, or does it matter? Does it impart a banana flavor/aroma to the wine?


----------



## Johnd

KCCam said:


> I’ve read about bananas increasing body and flavour too. How many bananas are we talking about? Banana bread works great with over-ripe bananas, but I’m guessing you would want just-ripe bananas in wine, or does it matter? Does it impart a banana flavor/aroma to the wine?



I've also read the same, but haven't ever used any bananas in my wines. I've seen several of our members making banana wine and they seem to really enjoy it as a fruit wine. Sorry I can't help you on the bananas.


----------



## Johnd

KCCam said:


> Thanks Johnd, for your input! I read about your 60 lb batch. You didn’t even increase the pectic enzyme for that much? Have you tasted it yet? I’m partly interested in SP/DB for being such a _*low*_-*cost*, well-documented, and evidently wonderful alternative to kits. 60 lbs of triple berry here would cost $160 (but that’s Canadian, so maybe about US$120).



No, didn't increase the enzymes, just used the recommended dosage of Lallzyme EX-V. The 60# batch is an experiment, wasn't suggesting you go there, just wanted to emphasize the fact that Dave's recipe can be modified upwards, and you're right, it's not an inexpensive experiment. Hopefully it turns out well.


----------



## dangerdave

KCCam said:


> I am a brand new member of winemakingtalk. I joined specifically because I stumbled upon dangerdave's Dragon Blood recipe a couple of days ago. I've made 3 or 4 wine kits a year since I started in 2012 and always wanted to make something from scratch. Well, now I can't wait! This thread really is a page-turner, but I'm only on page 11 so far - I've got a little way to go. I know it's frowned upon to ask questions before thoroughly searching for the answers first, but this is a LONG thread. I promise I'll spend more time reading in the days to come, but I want to get my first batch of DB started as soon as possible, so it will be ready in time for Christmas.
> 
> Sticking to the recipe as closely as possible on my first attempt would be the safest route, but I like to live on the edge, and I'm opting to make a couple of changes. Please let me know if this sounds OK, or if you have any suggestions or warnings.
> 
> Costco sells the triple berry blend here in Canada in 2 kg (4.4 lb) bags. It seems there are people who prefer more berries in the must than the 6 pounds the recipe calls for, so I plan to use 2 bags (8.8 lbs).
> Should I increase the 3 tsp pectic enzyme proportionally (to 4.5 tsp), or keep it at 3 tsp?
> I'd like to bump the alcohol content a bit. In the reading I have done, I've noticed some going as high as 1.110 initial gravity. Would the extra fruit help balance that, or should I go lower? I do like strong wine (and beer).
> The original recipe called for 96 oz of lemon juice, I believe. Most preffered less, and the recipe now calls for 48 oz. Would higher fruit and alcohol levels tend to increase the need for the acid, or decrease it? I don't expect this batch will be getting aged more than a few weeks! ;-) ... (or days??)
> Would anything else in the recipe need to be adjusted to account for the extra fruit and alcohol?
> This looks like a really great forum, with just the experts I've been looking for. I don't feel so alone anymore. Again, I'm sure I'll be able to answer most of these questions myself in a few days, after reading more of this thread, but I would really appreciate help getting a jump on this batch. Thanks.
> 
> Oh, and I'm really looking forward to reading more about the DB Port that I saw mentioned somewhere, and how it turned out. (I love port.)



You’ve already gotten done great answers from the DB fan club here at WMT. Welcome, and good luck on your first batch. Hopefully many more will follow.

As for the Dragon Port...that’s a secret I carry. I’ve got some of the original batch stashed away under my stairs. It’s several years old now and still warm as a summer night (alcoholically speaking).

Always remember that you can check your starting SG as much as you like, but the fruit has sugar in it as well, which is not taken into account towards the final product. You will end up with a bit more ABV than the starting SG indicates. According to my revised calculations, the Dragon Port came out in the mid 20’s ABV.


----------



## KCCam

dangerdave said:


> As for the Dragon Port...that’s a secret I carry. I’ve got some of the original batch stashed away under my stairs. It’s several years old now and still warm as a summer night (alcoholically speaking).
> 
> Always remember that you can check your starting SG as much as you like, but the fruit has sugar in it as well, which is not taken into account towards the final product. You will end up with a bit more ABV than the starting SG indicates. According to my revised calculations, the Dragon Port came out in the mid 20’s ABV.


I'm curious why you would keep it a secret. Is it the recipe that you keep secret, or the stash under your stairs? If it's the latter, then I guess your secret's out now!  Or is the recipe too complex or does it contain too many variables to share? Do you chaptalize, or do you start out with a must with enough sugar to leave a good amount of residual sugar after the yeast hits its alcohol tolerance (as my current ice wine style kit does)?

By “revised calculations,” do you mean the factoring in of the sugar in the fruit? I know there’s a separate forum for discussing calculations & calculators, but could you tell me what you mean as it relates to your DB port? Do you assume that *MOST* of the sugar in the fruit would be converted to alcohol and use the nutrient information on the package to calculate the amount of sugar, or do you use the boil-off method that I read about in the Calculations forum to work backwards to an original SG, or something else?

I couldn't find a sticky about forum rules. Is it OK to tell me which application you like best for working out ABV? I _*believe*_ the one I've found has been mentioned in the forums here. The author has put a HUGE amount of research and work into it and into his website, and distributes it freely, but I don't want to sound like I'm advertising, and just wondering if it's what you use. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out the best way to work out ABV because I could not believe how different the scales on my 2 hydrometers are! And one formula I found puts the fermented alcohol level of my "ice wine" (EC-1118 yeast) at 21.0%. I don't think THAT one is right.


----------



## MickeyB

KCCam said:


> I’ve read about bananas increasing body and flavour too. How many bananas are we talking about? Banana bread works great with over-ripe bananas, but I’m guessing you would want just-ripe bananas in wine, or does it matter? Does it impart a banana flavor/aroma to the wine?



I like ‘over-ripe’. They’re practically free at most of the stores here, and have more available sugar. Have used up to 2 lbs. per gallon just for added body and mouth feel with no banana flavor nor aroma, but do know a single banana makes a noticeable difference. Have a couple banana batches going and unsure how much banana would be required to impart a banana flavor. Can tell you 6 lbs. per gallon still has zero, with or without peels.


----------



## MickeyB

Bottled my muscadine/lemon finally...is wickedly good after only two months. Will start a six gallon batch this weekend. Used the DB recipe substituting double muscadine for the berry blend and added a tsp. of acid. So much better than the straight muscadines have had thus far.


----------



## Tinwakr

Any problem with taking the fruit, heating it, mashing, straining then adding to fermenter? I know using a bag may make it easier but I want no fruit to deal with in primary.


----------



## Johnd

Tinwakr said:


> Any problem with taking the fruit, heating it, mashing, straining then adding to fermenter? I know using a bag may make it easier but I want no fruit to deal with in primary.



You won’t get the same level of extraction of colors, flavors, and tannin that you will by fermenting with the fruit. Additionally, the heating will set the pectin in the fruit, making it more difficult to clear down the road. 

That said, it’s possible to do as you say, adding plenty of pectic enzyme to aid in clearing.


----------



## Tinwakr

I put together my first batch of Dragons Blood tonight, scaled it down to 3 gallons. I’ll pitch the yeast tomorrow evening. I used a frozen 600g bag each of wild blueberries, raspberries and blackberries (thawed). Starting SG was 1.076

Can I safely say that this will be ready to drink by Christmas or does it have to age?


----------



## Johnd

Tinwakr said:


> I put together my first batch of Dragons Blood tonight, scaled it down to 3 gallons. I’ll pitch the yeast tomorrow evening. I used a frozen 600g bag each of wild blueberries, raspberries and blackberries (thawed). Starting SG was 1.076
> 
> Can I safely say that this will be ready to drink by Christmas or does it have to age?



You could get it ready by Christmas, it’s an early drinker. It will, however, improve with age.


----------



## Tinwakr

So I checked the SG tonight before adding the yeast. 1.070 so the fruit added .006.

Pitched the yeast tonight woot! Can’t wait to try this.


----------



## RadRob

I think you'll make it by Xmas and I'll let you know in about 30 minutes how it tastes. I started a batch on the 21st, starting SG was 1.095, on the 28th it was down to .992. Since then I've racked, stabilized and sweetened. I'm gonna rack again and do some tasting.


----------



## RadRob

I've been drinking since I started and I like it, it grows on you fast. I think it needs more age to bring out the flavors but it's drinkable now.

I think you'll make your deadline. I tasted it when I racked and cleared on the 29th of Nov and it had a strong lemon/alcohol flavor, today it still has a slight lemon flavor but the fruit is coming through at the finish.

I did rush it and it's getting better by the day.

Don't hate on the bottles, I'm Podunk making fruit wine. I wouldn't have it any other way.







here's my log of the process. This was a 4 gallon batch with 7 lbs of strawberry, blackberry rasberry, blueberry mix. I broke down the 6 gal recipe to 4 and went with the recipe except I added a 96oz jug of white grape & peach to the party. 
22-Nov pitched yeast K1-V1116 1.095
23-Nov Pressed bag and stirred good 1.089
23-Nov pressed bag and stirred good 1.073
24-Nov stirred and measured SG in the AM 1.050
25-Nov stirred and measured SG in the AM 1.022
26-Nov stirred and measured SG in the AM 1.010
27-Nov Measured SG 1.000
28-Nov Measured SG .992
Racked, degassed & added chemicals sorbate 2.24 tsp
camden tab 1 tab SG .992
28-Nov added super kleer part 1. 5:30pm
added part 2, 8:00pm, stirred both parts in really good.
29-Nov racked and sweetened ,SG 991
29-Nov sweetened to a little over 1/2 cup per gallon.
5-Dec racked and bottled 1.004

Don't take anything I say as Gospel, this is my first batch and I started this wine thing a month ago.


----------



## Tinwakr

RadRob said:


> I've been drinking since I started and I like it, it grows on you fast. I think it needs more age to bring out the flavors but it's drinkable now.
> 
> I think you'll make your deadline. I tasted it when I racked and cleared on the 29th of Nov and it had a strong lemon/alcohol flavor, today it still has a slight lemon flavor but the fruit is coming through at the finish.
> 
> I did rush it and it's getting better by the day.
> 
> Don't hate on the bottles, I'm Podunk making fruit wine. I wouldn't have it any other way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here's my log of the process. This was a 4 gallon batch with 7 lbs of strawberry, blackberry rasberry, blueberry mix. I broke down the 6 gal recipe to 4 and went with the recipe except I added a 96oz jug of white grape & peach to the party.
> 22-Nov pitched yeast K1-V1116 1.095
> 23-Nov Pressed bag and stirred good 1.089
> 23-Nov pressed bag and stirred good 1.073
> 24-Nov stirred and measured SG in the AM 1.050
> 25-Nov stirred and measured SG in the AM 1.022
> 26-Nov stirred and measured SG in the AM 1.010
> 27-Nov Measured SG 1.000
> 28-Nov Measured SG .992
> Racked, degassed & added chemicals sorbate 2.24 tsp
> camden tab 1 tab SG .992
> 28-Nov added super kleer part 1. 5:30pm
> added part 2, 8:00pm, stirred both parts in really good.
> 29-Nov racked and sweetened ,SG 991
> 29-Nov sweetened to a little over 1/2 cup per gallon.
> 5-Dec racked and bottled 1.004
> 
> Don't take anything I say as Gospel, this is my first batch and I started this wine thing a month ago.



When did you remove the bag from the fermenter?


----------



## RadRob

On the 23rd, the fruits were spent and shrunk down to about 10% of what I started with. I should've left them in longer but didn't think it would make a difference.


----------



## Tinwakr

All I have in my bag mostly are seed right now, I think I am gonna remove the bag tonight


----------



## Tinwakr

I think I will leave the bag in one more day, still a bit of pulp.


----------



## RadRob

It won't hurt. I have a 2nd batch started a day later and left the bag in till it hit 1.000. I need to rack it again. It cleared just as good as the first batch.


----------



## dangerdave

The blueberries are the driver for the color. I’ve made blueberry only versions (I call it “Jet Blue”) that are virtually the same color as the triple berry batches. Leaving the the skins in there until it reaches 1.000 makes all the difference in color and flavor. Trust me. I’ve made hundreds of batches.


----------



## Tinwakr

dangerdave said:


> The blueberries are the driver for the color. I’ve made blueberry only versions (I call it “Jet Blue”) that are virtually the same color as the triple berry batches. Leaving the the skins in there until it reaches 1.000 makes all the difference in color and flavor. Trust me. I’ve made hundreds of batches.



I have left the bag in. Checked the SG last night(2nd night) and it was 1.061(dropped .015). Hopefully by this evening it has dropped a considerable amount. [emoji6]


----------



## Tinwakr

Last night the SG was 1.004. Looks like the first racking is happening tonight! Woot!


----------



## Tinwakr

Well, Dragon’s Blood is now clearing. SG was at 0.997. I had slightly more than 3 gallons(3 gallon carboy, 1-375 ml and 1-750 ml).

Hopefully when everything clears I will have exactly 3 gallons. I plan on bottling in some 375ml bottles(gifts) and the rest in 750ml bottles for me and my better half.

I am so stoked to try some of this and I can’t wait to start my next batch!


----------



## RadRob

It clears fast with Super Kleer, You'll see it clear within a few hours but I go 2 days and rack then rack again in 2 days and that's it. 

I sweetened with 1/2 cup/gal and found it to be a good drinkable dry wine, then I added 3/4 cup/gal to one bottle and it's like fruit punch that you can drink waay too fast. Both 1.75L bottles are gone in about 4 days, it goes quick.


----------



## G259

Is it necessary to inoculate the must prior to adding the yeast, or will it already be sanitized due to the frozen berries?


----------



## RadRob

You should be safe if you're using frozen fruit.


----------



## sour_grapes

I don't think "inoculate" was the word you were looking for...


----------



## Tinwakr

RadRob said:


> It clears fast with Super Kleer, You'll see it clear within a few hours but I go 2 days and rack then rack again in 2 days and that's it.
> 
> I sweetened with 1/2 cup/gal and found it to be a good drinkable dry wine, then I added 3/4 cup/gal to one bottle and it's like fruit punch that you can drink waay too fast. Both 1.75L bottles are gone in about 4 days, it goes quick.



With that amount of sugar what was your final SG?


----------



## Ajmassa

Tinwakr said:


> With that amount of sugar what was your final SG?



The one batch I made— the “Dragonette” version with double the fruit and half the lemon juice essentially—— I found my sweet spot at about 1.004-1.005 SG. 
Another couple months and the fruity flavor was definitely showing more signs in the wine.


----------



## RadRob

I'm not sure but I'll measure it later, I might need to know that info later myself.


----------



## RadRob

I opened up the 3rd 1/2 gallon and measured/drinking it. I'm at 1.002, it's a little dry/tart but good. It's only aged 2 weeks since it hit .992. The fruit flavor is stronger than it was last week. This is sweetened to 1/2 cup sugar per gallon. I think I need a little more sugar to help with the tart/dry taste. 

AJMass^ probably has it right on the SG, I'll adjust tomorrow and drink more!!!


----------



## G259

sour_grapes said:


> I don't think "inoculate" was the word you were looking for...


in·oc·u·late
[iˈnäkyəˌlāt]
VERB

treat (a person or animal) with a vaccine to produce immunity against a disease.Compare with vaccinate.
Adding Pot-Meta, to kill wild yeast. Apparently it's not necessary in this case. Just confirming.


----------



## Tinwakr

RadRob said:


> I opened up the 3rd 1/2 gallon and measured/drinking it. I'm at 1.002, it's a little dry/tart but good. It's only aged 2 weeks since it hit .992. The fruit flavor is stronger than it was last week. This is sweetened to 1/2 cup sugar per gallon. I think I need a little more sugar to help with the tart/dry taste.
> 
> AJMass^ probably has it right on the SG, I'll adjust tomorrow and drink more!!!



I would probably like it a little tart however, my better half may not. I will likely go for a SG of about 1.005-1.010


----------



## sour_grapes

G259 said:


> in·oc·u·late
> [iˈnäkyəˌlāt]
> VERB
> 
> treat (a person or animal) with a vaccine to produce immunity against a disease.Compare with vaccinate.
> Adding Pot-Meta, to kill wild yeast. Apparently it's not necessary in this case. Just confirming.



Your definition backs up my assertion. K-meta is not a vaccine, must is not an organism, no immunity was conferred, and growth of wild yeast is not a disease. What you are doing might be termed sanitizing or the like.

The only reason I took the trouble to comment on this is that, later in the process, you WILL inoculate the must (using another meaning of inoculate):

in·oc·u·late
[iˈnäkyəˌlāt]
VERB
1. treat (a person or animal) with a vaccine to produce immunity against a disease. Compare with vaccinate.
"he inoculated his tenants against smallpox"

2. introduce (an infective agent) into an organism.
"the microorganism can be inoculated into laboratory animals"

*3. introduce (cells or organisms) into a culture medium.
*
It goes without saying that you may use the word as you see fit, and I won't comment on it again. But don't be surprised if others don't comprehend your intended meaning.


----------



## Tinwakr

RadRob said:


> It clears fast with Super Kleer, You'll see it clear within a few hours but I go 2 days and rack then rack again in 2 days and that's it.
> 
> I sweetened with 1/2 cup/gal and found it to be a good drinkable dry wine, then I added 3/4 cup/gal to one bottle and it's like fruit punch that you can drink waay too fast. Both 1.75L bottles are gone in about 4 days, it goes quick.



Mine has been racked once into a 3 gallon glass carboy and it’s been two days and there is still really fine particles floating around and they look like they are suspended in the wine. Did you also have this after two days?


----------



## RadRob

No I didn't. I would add a little pectic enzyme and degas, that should drop it in a day.


----------



## Tinwakr

RadRob said:


> No I didn't. I would add a little pectic enzyme and degas, that should drop it in a day.



Thanks for the quick reply!

I degassed like mad (for a half hour)as per directions, no foaming continued. How much more pectin enzyme for three gallons? Maybe wait for a complete week before I worry about it?


----------



## RadRob

I'm sure everybody would say just wait but I have no patience so I would add 1/2 tsp and stir good. It's your call either way it should clear in a week.


----------



## Allie Geiger

Help!!
I JUST started a batch of Skeeter Pee in the fermenter, and we have been invited to visit family for the weekend.
Staying home is out of the question, as my kids are bouncing-off-the-walls excited to go to Grandma's house, but what about my wine? I'm worried the skeeter will go sulpher-y over the weekend not being stirred to incorporate oxygen. What can I do to prevent, or "push pause" while we are away?
I don't really trust someone else coming in to stir it, as I am particular about sanitizing, etc. I have no other friends that are familiar with making wine.


----------



## cmason1957

Allie Geiger said:


> Help!!
> I JUST started a batch of Skeeter Pee in the fermenter, and we have been invited to visit family for the weekend.
> Staying home is out of the question, as my kids are bouncing-off-the-walls excited to go to Grandma's house, but what about my wine? I'm worried the skeeter will go sulpher-y over the weekend not being stirred to incorporate oxygen. What can I do to prevent, or "push pause" while we are away?
> I don't really trust someone else coming in to stir it, as I am particular about sanitizing, etc. I have no other friends that are familiar with making wine.


Go and have fun. Slap a lid on it with an airlock. It's wine, not a baby that requires absolute attention. Yes, I stir my wines somewhat regularly during the time it is in the primary fermenter, but if I forget for a day, it still ferments just fine. Don't worry, be happy.


----------



## Allie Geiger

cmason1957 said:


> Go and have fun. Slap a lid on it with an airlock. It's wine, not a baby that requires absolute attention. Yes, I stir my wines somewhat regularly during the time it is in the primary fermenter, but if I forget for a day, it still ferments just fine. Don't worry, be happy.


Phew! One more question though, what about it being Skeeter pee and needing more nutrient and juice added at SG 1.05? Will it mess up my batch if I miss that?


----------



## cmason1957

Allie Geiger said:


> Phew! One more question though, what about it being Skeeter pee and needing more nutrient and juice added at SG 1.05? Will it mess up my batch if I miss that?


I would add it now before you leave. Your are changing the pH of the must, after starting to ferment. The yeast are used to what it was,so you give them some extra help.


----------



## Tinwakr

RadRob said:


> I'm sure everybody would say just wait but I have no patience so I would add 1/2 tsp and stir good. It's your call either way it should clear in a week.



What I think I’ll do is wait the week, at that point if it’s not totally clear I will rack and add 1/2 tsp of pectin enzyme. Maybe I didn’t add enough at the start?

I can always cold crash as well I guess. [emoji6]


----------



## Tinwakr

Well, racked again and added a tsp of pectin enzyme. Hopefully clear in the next couple of days.


----------



## MickeyB

Bottled one yesterday that didn’t clear in 2 weeks with Super Kleer. Had substituted orange for the lemon in primary and think this somehow changed things. Reracked it and Super Kleered a second time and cleared in 24 hrs. Not sure the difference, but think the orange was the culprit since is the only batch that didn’t clear quickly first pass and the only one with orange in it.


----------



## Allie Geiger

MickeyB said:


> Bottled one yesterday that didn’t clear in 2 weeks with Super Kleer. Had substituted orange for the lemon in primary and think this somehow changed things. Reracked it and Super Kleered a second time and cleared in 24 hrs. Not sure the difference, but think the orange was the culprit since is the only batch that didn’t clear quickly first pass and the only one with orange in it.


I didn’t realize you can use superkleer more than once! I figured if it didn’t work the first time, that was that.


----------



## Tinwakr

Well, after racking and adding pectic enzyme for the second time, it is now crystal clear! Working 7 days per week, no time to bottle. [emoji30] I hope to have it bottled before Christmas Day.


----------



## dangerdave

One of the first rules I learned in wine making, and I often repeat: Pectin haze is the number one cause of cloudy wine. The great thing is that pectic enzyme will not effect your wine. If you have to dose it again, you can do so with confidence.

While we’re on the wine clearing subject, let me say this. Last year I purchased bulk liters of both kieselsol and chitosan. I have used both of these in numerous of batches of Dragon Blood (mostly). It was not the first time I had used them from bunk purchases. This time, with this year’s purchase, they have repeatedly failed to clear quickly. I have used SuperKlear many time and had them clear in days. With these last liters purchased it takes more than a week. Recently, I have done a side by side with SuperKlear that proved my suspicions. The products I purchased in bulk were inferior to the SuperKlear, which will clear in days without fail. Just an FYI for you all.


----------



## Tinwakr

Well, all bottled! 7-375ml bottles for gifts and 12-750ml for us! Oh ya, and a glass for the brew guy! LOL!

I added 2-1/2 cups of sugar to back-sweeten mine.

I have a 3 gallon batch of apple wine just about ready for second racking and 6 gallons of an Argentina Ridge Merlot kit just started yesterday, and a gallon batch of white wine using Welch’s white grape juice.

Wife says gotta get these finished before I start another batch.

Next up: blueberry dragon’s blood and raspberry dragon’s blood, 5 gallons of each! Gotta stock up for summer and these wines will be perfect!!


----------



## MickeyB

Well done, Tinwakr!


----------



## Tinwakr

dangerdave said:


> One of the first rules I learned in wine making, and I often repeat: Pectin haze is the number one cause of cloudy wine. The great thing is that pectic enzyme will not effect your wine. If you have to dose it again, you can do so with confidence.
> 
> While we’re on the wine clearing subject, let me say this. Last year I purchased bulk liters of both kieselsol and chitosan. I have used both of these in numerous of batches of Dragon Blood (mostly). It was not the first time I had used them from bunk purchases. This time, with this year’s purchase, they have repeatedly failed to clear quickly. I have used SuperKlear many time and had them clear in days. With these last liters purchased it takes more than a week. Recently, I have done a side by side with SuperKlear that proved my suspicions. The products I purchased in bulk were inferior to the SuperKlear, which will clear in days without fail. Just an FYI for you all.



Why not just use the Chitosan and Kieselsol? My local brew store sells these. I found Sparkoloid worked well also, I just didn’t add enough pectic enzyme I think.


----------



## Keith5

Started first DB 3 weeks ago. Great AF with 1118 yeast. Racked to 1 gallon glass carboy and put on air lock. It looks good and clearing via gravity. However, it smelled awesome on AF, but aroma has declined ALOT and test taste at racking was bitter( honestly awful. When does this get drinkable? Original SG was 1.08 and fermented dry to 0.96


----------



## Tinwakr

Keith5 said:


> Started first DB 3 weeks ago. Great AF with 1118 yeast. Racked to 1 gallon glass carboy and put on air lock. It looks good and clearing via gravity. However, it smelled awesome on AF, but aroma has declined ALOT and test taste at racking was bitter( honestly awful. When does this get drinkable? Original SG was 1.08 and fermented dry to 0.96



Did you back sweeten?


----------



## Keith5

This is first DB run. It’s still in secondary clearing up a few weeks, so I have not backsweetened yet or sorbated. I did try a test glass on racking to secondary and was way tart, flat, etc. I added 3 teaspoon of simple syrup in the glass and it was palatable. Not fruity tasting or smelling like it was in primary AF(which smelled awesome). I’ll let it settle out a amonth, rack, use bentonite to clear if cloudy backsweeten and sorbate. We shall see


----------



## Tinwakr

Keith5 said:


> This is first DB run. It’s still in secondary clearing up a few weeks, so I have not backsweetened yet or sorbated. I did try a test glass on racking to secondary and was way tart, flat, etc. I added 3 teaspoon of simple syrup in the glass and it was palatable. Not fruity tasting or smelling like it was in primary AF(which smelled awesome). I’ll let it settle out a amonth, rack, use bentonite to clear if cloudy backsweeten and sorbate. We shall see



From pitching the yeast to bottling it was under two weeks for me. Did you follow the directions to a “T”?

Pitched my yeast on December 4, bottled on December 17.


----------



## Keith5

I scaled it down to 1 gallon and did follow recipe but added a about 10 pieces of French oak chips. I did only use 1lb of Walmart Triple berry for the gallon. Again, it smelled incredible in AF day 2-5. Have not added clarifier, sugar or solvated yet. Just hoping it gets where it should as far as taste. Only been messing with making wine for a year. My biggest learning is be patient and it’ll probably be fine.

FWIW, I bought A used FastFermet 7.9 gallon off Craigslist for $30. Guy said tried it once and gave up. I Took it apart, cleaned, sanitized ad read the instructions. Put all connections together about 10x and used razor to clean the overmolded seams screwing up the threads. Bought Blue Monster Pipe Thread Tape at plumbing supply store and Danco waterproof grease at Lowe’s(its food safe, I called Danco and was so told). 
Each connection point was trial and error but 4-7 full wraps(start with 4 and water test. If leaks, remove tape and put on clean 6 wraps) of tape on a connection and adding the grease over the tape..... completely eliminated all leaks! I’m water testing again now for a 24 hour test but, no leaks. The Blue Monster tape is much thicker than the cheap white pipe thread wrap. If you have a Fastfermenter and suffer leaks, try this technique. 
It looks to be a functional product if it don’t leak. I’m planning to pitch a Cab Sauvignon kit in it Saturday if no more leaks. Again, we shall see. I love the science and experimenting with fermenting edibles!


----------



## RadRob

You don't need patience with DB just follow the directions. You should've bottled already. The fruit will get better after sweetened and a week or two aging. Next batch double the fruit and follow the directions to a T then start making changes to what you like or read through the thread and find something that sounds good to you.


----------



## dangerdave

I strove from the start to make the DB recipe a “no-brainer”, with detailed descriptions of what to do at each step. It is a confidence builder for new wine makers because—if you stick to the script—it is virtually fool-proof. You get a good cheap wine quickly, and with a hearty huzzah! for yourself! A big part of bring an excellent wine maker is the ability to think outside the box, but you need a box first.
Keith, I hope you get yours straightened out. It sounds like you did ok. Something must be amiss.


----------



## Countrygent

So my first batch is now about 5 weeks in the bottle, nicely clear with only sparkaloid. My son mentioned his girlfriend might like DB as she drinks coolers and cider. Gave them a bottle. Her roommate came home from a party, thought she might have a nightcap, and opened the bottle in the fridge. Poor young lady proceeded to quaff a fair deal as it is so easy drinking and the alcohol just vanished behind the fruit acidity, and mine is fairly dry - 1/3 cup sugar per gallon backsweetened from dead dry ferment. She ended up in bed for the better part of the next day, hit head on by the DB train. I am sure this lesson has been learned by others ... like the time the bartender in Hawaii warned me about the zombies he was making me ... you might want to have water for an hour sir, these kind of creep up on you!


----------



## Keith5

Looking back at the recipe, Maybe i didn’t quite follow exactly, although I thought I did.

I scaled everything down for a 1 gallon batch, but, I used a full gallon of water in addition to all the other ingredients. 
I should have used a 1/2 gallon or so, added sugar, pectic acid, etc and then topped off to 1 full gallon. 
The way I made it, it ended up about 1 1/2 gallons. I used too much water. I’m starting another 1 gallon batch and will make that adjustment that will give me a 1 gallon total volume when I pitch the yeast.


----------



## G259

I always make extra, for top up. I have several 500ml Grolsh type flip top bottles, that I dedicate to top-up wine.


----------



## Tinwakr

I have opened and drank a couple of bottles so far and I am finding that the aroma has a bit of smell that bothers my nose like the metabisulfite does and I cannot smell or taste anything from the berries I used. It smells kind of floral. I put a tsp of sorbate for the 3 gallons and one Campden tab per gallon before bottling. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## G259

That's not good! Maybe air it out, and let the meta dissipate? I don't want to introduce more O2, but it's an option.


----------



## G259

. . . I also noted that you have already bottled. As I have (grudgingly) done in the past, opening the bottled wine to allow for adjustments is an option. It just depends upon how bad it really is.


----------



## porkchopmessiah

Has anybody ever carbonated db? If so did u use a champagne bottle l, flip top beer or regular beer bottles?


----------



## dangerdave

Racking it will get rid of extra meta, but if it’s bottled it would have to be unbottled. ‍


----------



## Tinwakr

Second batch in the fermenter. Went for the full batch this time and I added 2 pound extra fruit and 3 cups extra sugar taking the SG to 1.092. I will pitch the yeast tomorrow evening!


----------



## Tinwakr

Pitched the yeast tonight. The colour is gorgeous! Much deeper colour than with the three gallon batch I did. Smells much better also.


----------



## G259

I went with the standard fruit and pitched RC-212 (good berry yeast) on the 18th, it's still going 1 bubble/ 5 sec. I thought that it was a rapid ferment still, after a week. BTW started at 1.090, but didn't crush berries (mistake), I have been trying to crush them against the side of the bucket when stirring, not a huge amount of 'floaters' left. My bad, but I don't think a major deal, SG might be higher, but maybe I won't have to back-sweeten!


----------



## MickeyB

Started a 6 gallon batch of muscadine/lemon a week ago. Been the slowest fermenter to date, but attribute it to the cooler temps. Started at 1.086 with the crushed muscadines and finally at 1.024 this morning. Should have warmed it up a bit or pulled the skins sooner. Used 13 lbs. of purples and hope it wasn’t on the skins too long. Do know is noticeably darker than a previous batch. Have made several batches of muscadine now with various amounts of fruit, and this one is everyone’s favorite. None of the others are even close. The lemon just balances it perfectly.


----------



## G259

Who knows, it might be better! (Post-Ferment is KNOWLEDGE)


----------



## Tinwakr

Well, I aerated and decanted a bottle from my first batch overnight and I’m having a glass now, much better tasting. I am going to age the 11 bottles I have left and concentrate on the 6 gallons I now have going.


----------



## RadRob

I've done 3 3 gallon batches since Nov 1st and I'm on the last bottle of the first batch except one I stashed to age more. All three were different but good. I broke it out at the family Christmas party and everyone loved it. I ended up giving away bottles to a few people.

I need to start another batch as soon as I make up my mind what flavor I want to try.


----------



## Keith5

I started aother 1 gallon batch and followed instructions exactly, including total amount of water last Friday . It’s looking great in AF now. I’m confidant that es my issue


----------



## Tinwakr

Keith5 said:


> I started aother 1 gallon batch and followed instructions exactly, including total amount of water last Friday . It’s looking great in AF now. I’m confidant that es my issue



Keep us posted.


----------



## G259

It's been 9 days now, still at 1 bubble every 5 seconds. I wonder if crushing the berries against the side, when stirring, added sugar, thus a prolonged ferment? Next time I'll crush first!


----------



## Tinwakr

G259 said:


> It's been 9 days now, still at 1 bubble every 5 seconds. I wonder if crushing the berries against the side, when stirring, added sugar, thus a prolonged ferment? Next time I'll crush first!



What is your SG?

I am using the “presser method” lol.

As long as the SG is below 1.000 you should be fine to proceed with clearing.


----------



## G259

Just did a stir (and crush), it's at 1.020, and back to 1 / 5 seconds. This is a 3 piece airlock. I have wondered if an 'S' type airlock would bubble at a different rate, at the same fermentation rate.


----------



## cmason1957

G259 said:


> Just did a stir (and crush), it's at 1.020, and back to 1 / 5 seconds. This is a 3 piece airlock. I have wondered if an 'S' type airlock would bubble at a different rate, at the same fermentation rate.


Counting bubbles is an absolute waste of time and energy. It doesn't mean much of anything. The Co2 may be escaping some other way than through the airlock. Your hydrometer changing or not is all that matters.


----------



## G259

Just a frame of reference, I expected it to slow (as it usually does). I said to myself 'Duh, crushing the floating fruit is adding sugar.' lol, pretty obvious to me now! I usually just do 100% bottled juice, so just pour it in and you're done. I did do a 1G strawberry, but otherwise just juice, and this.


----------



## Bliorg

Hi All -

Found this thread a while ago and have been slowly accumulating bits to start. Plan: Have a batch started and bottled in the time my son is home from college for Christmas break. Slow getting going, but we put everything together tonight, will pitch tomorrow. He goes back the 22nd of January; I'm hopeful, and either way, this is so much fun with my boy.

Recipe alterations: 40 ounces of ReaLemon instead of 48, 8 pounds of Kirkland triple berry, and 24 ounces of Redner's frozen raspberries. Going to use K1-V1116. Will see how it goes.

Thanks to all of you for the inspiration!

Scott



Good to have help by Scott, on Flickr



Triple berry fruit wine/must by Scott, on Flickr


----------



## dangerdave

The K1 yeast works well. It will smooth out some of the tartness. I like mine nice and tart, so I stick with trusty EC-1118.


----------



## rca

Got my first batch bottled today. Pretty good so far.


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

I've skimmed through this entire thread, and looking forward to starting a batch in the next week or two.


----------



## Tinwakr

I will be racking my 2nd batch tomorrow evening for clearing.


----------



## Tinwakr

rca said:


> Got my first batch bottled today. Pretty good so far. View attachment 52701
> View attachment 52702



Looks great! Darker than my first batch but I think my second will be pretty close to yours.


----------



## rca

Tinwakr said:


> Looks great! Darker than my first batch but I think my second will be pretty close to yours.


Bad lighting and dark bottles. It's got good color.


----------



## Bliorg

24 hours in


24 hours by Scott, on Flickr


----------



## Bliorg

Checked vital statistics: SG 1.052 (was 1.092 yesterday), temp = 84F. Roiling. Just churning. Smells strong - not bad, but not what I'm used to. I unplugged the Brew Belt - I think 84 is above where I want to be with K1-V. Tastes good though - very fruity. 

Hope you all have a safe and happy New Year!


----------



## JBP

Thinking of starting my first batch and wondering if there is a problem with letting this clear for 3-4 weeks? Or should I wait until a time I am more available?


----------



## Tinwakr

JBP said:


> Thinking of starting my first batch and wondering if there is a problem with letting this clear for 3-4 weeks? Or should I wait until a time I am more available?



DB is “designed” to be ready to drink after two weeks, however, I am sure you can leave it longer to clear, as long as you don’t mean allowing it to sit on the lees for 3-4 weeks. If I am wrong I am sure Dave can chime in.


----------



## Tinwakr

Second batch clearing, Woohoo!!


----------



## JBP

Tinwakr said:


> DB is “designed” to be ready to drink after two weeks, however, I am sure you can leave it longer to clear, as long as you don’t mean allowing it to sit on the lees for 3-4 weeks. If I am wrong I am sure Dave can chime in.


Thanks for response - wouldn't be leaving on lees. I would have time to rack and stabilize, but would likely have to bottle with less than a week of clearing or wait for several weeks. Thinking it would be better to allow extra time for clearing than not enough (although waiting and starting the whole process in a month or two also an option)


----------



## damaskrose

This is impressive. I'll enjoy binge reading this thread. AKtom suggested that I should check this out.


----------



## G259

My DB is bubbling at 1/8 sec., my hydrometer bottoms out at 1.000 in my bucket. I thought that that was unusual, I would expect a slower bubbling at 1.00. I will rack it tomorrow to a Better Bottle and see what it is. Possible degassing?


----------



## G259

What is the technique to adding sugar to wine after fermentation. Obviously there is the sorbate step, but what is the best way to add it? Do you siphon to a bucket, then add sugar to a specific SG, then bottle?


----------



## Johnd

G259 said:


> What is the technique to adding sugar to wine after fermentation. Obviously there is the sorbate step, but what is the best way to add it? Do you siphon to a bucket, then add sugar to a specific SG, then bottle?



You should let your wine finish fermenting, and degassing, so that you can taste test properly. Personally, I prefer to thoroughly mix in straight sugar, but only after some taste testing of small samples (bench trials). Starting with a known size sample, add small, known increments of sugar, tasting along the way, until you find your favorite place. Expand the sugar addition to the appropriate dosage for your whole vessel. 

Above, I’ve ignored the details of clearing, degassing, adding sorbate and sulfite, but personally prefer all of them be done prior to sweetening, so that bottling can take place soon after.


----------



## jumby

JBP said:


> Thanks for response - wouldn't be leaving on lees. I would have time to rack and stabilize, but would likely have to bottle with less than a week of clearing or wait for several weeks. Thinking it would be better to allow extra time for clearing than not enough (although waiting and starting the whole process in a month or two also an option)




You're fine leaving it. Extra time clearing will not hurt it. There's been times I let mine clear/sit for 3-6 months before bottling.


----------



## dangerdave

Great responses, people! I have noting to add to the above.


----------



## Tinwakr

Quick question, I am assuming that if I did a batch with a SG of 1.035-1.040, more of the fruit flavour would come through?


----------



## RadRob

I'm guessing it would be too sweet, maybe try to stop it at .010.


----------



## Tinwakr

RadRob said:


> I'm guessing it would be too sweet, maybe try to stop it at .010.



I don’t thing we’re on the same page, hehe. I want to start with a SG of 1.040 or so, ferment dry then back sweeten. I think with a lower ABV the fruit flavour would come through a lot more than if I started with 1.080.


----------



## cmason1957

Tinwakr said:


> I don’t thing we’re on the same page, hehe. I want to start with a SG of 1.040 or so, ferment dry then back sweeten. I think with a lower ABV the fruit flavour would come through a lot more than if I started with 1.080.


1.040 starting sg gives you about 5% abv. Now I realize you aren't planning to age this for long, but that is beer level. I wouldn't start below 1.075 which should be right at 10% abv. I would try starting with more fruit, rather than less alcohol or maybe (like me) Dragon's Blood isn't your thing. I make it for my family only.


----------



## willie

cmason1957 said:


> 1.040 starting sg gives you about 5% abv. Now I realize you aren't planning to age this for long, but that is beer level. I wouldn't start below 1.075 which should be right at 10% abv. I would try starting with more fruit, rather than less alcohol or maybe (like me) Dragon's Blood isn't your thing. I make it for my family only.




lol at 5% I think a tumbler would have to be used to get a good drink of DB. We always start with an SG of 
1.080 to 1.090. We just started a Tropical version with a starting SG of 1.084 with our usual ending SG of .990 as we expect using 8 lbs of Great Value mixed fruit from Wally World and a bottle of white grape peach juice. And it should give us plenty of good flavor. 

Will


----------



## Keith5

Racking my second 1 gallon batch of DB today to sparkolloid, Kmeta prior to backsweeten and bottle. Way better looking than first batch after keeping to 1 gallon total volume. 
I will backsweeen and my question is: 
I got a bottle of Lakewood Pure Black Cherry Juice, no preservative or additives but label says it was PASTUERIZED. Is “pastuerized” a problem or a benefit, being this is Post-AF? 
The juice has 33g sugar per cup, so for 1 gallon I’m thing a half cup of juice to back sweeten and flavor and add simple syrup if needed beyond that. Thoughts?


----------



## cmason1957

Keith5 said:


> Racking my second 1 gallon batch of DB today to sparkolloid, Kmeta prior to backsweeten and bottle. Way better looking than first batch after keeping to 1 gallon total volume.
> I will backsweeen and my question is:
> I got a bottle of Lakewood Pure Black Cherry Juice, no preservative or additives but label says it was PASTUERIZED. Is “pastuerized” a problem or a benefit, being this is Post-AF?
> The juice has 33g sugar per cup, so for 1 gallon I’m thing a half cup of juice to back sweeten and flavor and add simple syrup if needed beyond that. Thoughts?



When you say you are adding Kmeta prior to backsweeten, I am hoping you forgot to also type potassium sorbate, if you didn't forget and don't plan to add it, be ready for refermentation to happen in the bottle and blow some corks out. The Pastuerized or not doesn't matter at this point, yeast cares about sugar and will eat it, produce more alcohol and CO2. I suppose you could plan to sterile filter (I believe that is to 0.45 micron absolute, not nominal).


----------



## Bliorg

Initial mixing a week ago today. This morning, SG 0.990, second day. Pulled the fruit pack yesterday. If the gravity hasn't changed tomorrow, looks like we'll be racking!


----------



## Keith5

Ey Cmason, thanks for reply on the pasteurization, much appreciated. 
I did add the potassium sorbate as directed in the DB recipe #2. Racking went well and it’s sitting in gallon jug with airlock for a few weeks. I’ll backsweeten with the cherry juice and sugar as discussed in a week or 2, give it a few days to settle out, check SG and bottle.


----------



## Tinwakr

3 gallons of apple wine, 5 gallons of Merlot and 6 gallons of Dragon’s Blood. Had a problem with haziness in DB and apple wine so I racked and added pectic enzyme. Now I will let everything sit until clear then bottle or bulk age.

I do have a question about the”presser method”, when squeezing the brew bag is the idea to get all the liquid out of it every time? Reason being is that I end up with a lot of particulate floating in the wine and some fruit bits. Does anyone filter?


----------



## Johnd

Tinwakr said:


> 3 gallons of apple wine, 5 gallons of Merlot and 6 gallons of Dragon’s Blood. Had a problem with haziness in DB and apple wine so I racked and added pectic enzyme. Now I will let everything sit until clear then bottle or bulk age.
> 
> I do have a question about the”presser method”, when squeezing the brew bag is the idea to get all the liquid out of it every time? Reason being is that I end up with a lot of particulate floating in the wine and some fruit bits. Does anyone filter?
> 
> View attachment 52783



No need to filter, just go about your process as normal, your regular racking and clearing activities will take care of it.


----------



## Bliorg

Racked and fined!



12 gallons by Scott, on Flickr


----------



## Bliorg

Okay, update and a question:
Today (actually, looked like this about an hour after fining)


Untitled by Scott, on Flickr

There's a good 1-1/4" of sediment in the bottom. Fined with Super Kleer (Kieselsol/Chitosan). The wine is still fairly opaque. Now, I'm fairly new to this, but of the wines I've fined with Kieselsol and Chitosan, they've all been pretty much totally clear within, maybe, 48 hours, being generous. There's plenty of time for this to settle out, but I'm thinking ahead. Is it typical for DB to clear slowly (all things being relative)? _Should this continue to be hazy_, what's next? Another dose of Super Kleer? Bentonite (read that it may be protein haze)? More PE and wait?


----------



## Tinwakr

Bliorg said:


> Okay, update and a question:
> Today (actually, looked like this about an hour after fining)
> 
> 
> Untitled by Scott, on Flickr
> 
> There's a good 1-1/4" of sediment in the bottom. Fined with Super Kleer (Kieselsol/Chitosan). The wine is still fairly opaque. Now, I'm fairly new to this, but of the wines I've fined with Kieselsol and Chitosan, they've all been pretty much totally clear within, maybe, 48 hours, being generous. There's plenty of time for this to settle out, but I'm thinking ahead. Is it typical for DB to clear slowly (all things being relative)? _Should this continue to be hazy_, what's next? Another dose of Super Kleer? Bentonite (read that it may be protein haze)? More PE and wait?



DB should clear very fast. I am having the same issue, this batch isn’t clearing much at all.

My first batch was in bottles in 13 days.


----------



## Bliorg

Tinwakr said:


> DB should clear very fast. I am having the same issue, this batch isn’t clearing much at all.
> 
> My first batch was in bottles in 13 days.


That’s the time frame I was hoping for...

I think I’m going to rack off the sediment and dose it again with 3 tsp of pectic enzyme. Hopefully it clears after that. If not, hmmm.


----------



## Tinwakr

Bliorg said:


> That’s the time frame I was hoping for...
> 
> I think I’m going to rack off the sediment and dose it again with 3 tsp of pectic enzyme. Hopefully it clears after that. If not, hmmm.



Let us know how it goes, I dosed mine with another 1-1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme and still isn’t clearing as it should.


----------



## Bliorg

The carboy is in the garage since racking, holding about 48F, which I think is too cold for enzymatic activity. Going to rack to a clean carboy tonight and move it inside to warm up for 24 hours then heavily dose it. Tempted to throw the brew belt on the carboy but heat and glass, dunno...


----------



## TyYoda

I had a similar experience with my 12# Tripleberry Dragon Blood not clearing quickly after fining with Durafine. I gave it another dose of Pectic enzyme and within three days it was totally cleared. My basement doesn't have great side lighting so my Dragon Blood carboy looked like your picture but it was actually cleared. I had to use my cell phone with the flashlight on to be able to tell it was clear. The wine probably cleared within a day or two and I just couldn't tell until I used a light source on the side of the carboy.


----------



## TyYoda

Your carboy should be able to handle the brew belt especially if you can set it to a reasonable temperature. I use a PID controller with a home heating pad and have set the temp as high as 76F to help get a fermentation going. My basement glass carboys stay at 60F unless I use heating pads.


----------



## Bliorg

Yeah, I don’t have access to a P-I-D controller, and that’s my main concern with the Brew Belt - no control. Pretty much constant on and heats based on draw. I can attenuate that with a rheostat I wired to a receptacle but that’s all guesswork too. I need to implement a control scheme as I get further along but for now I think I’m just letting the temperature come up to ambient gradually. Which will start tonight, had a houseguest that kind of kept us from wine stuff last night...


----------



## Bliorg

Not as bad as it looks in bulk:


Hazy by Scott, on Flickr

Racked tonight, topped with some white zin. Will hit it with PE tomorrow night. The taste has definitely evolved. Will come out nicely with some sweetness. We may actually get it in bottle before my son goes back to school.


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

Finally getting to try this!!!

I've been putting it off for a while now, I started a mead, then a batch of skeeter pee. But I bought the lemon juice and 4 kg of triple berry, just need to stop in at the lhbs for a couple of things tomorrow, and a few bananas at the grocery store, and I'll be good to go on some db!


----------



## TyYoda

I have a Inkbirk ITC-106VH PID (proportional integral derivative controller). You can find kits on amazon prime (or ebay) where they provide a 40A SSR (solid state relay) and the thermocouple for $35. I've seen some kits for $20. I wired mine with a light switch and a duplex outlet so I could plug various kinds of electrical devices (lead pots, toaster ovens, heating pads, brew belts, freezer, refrigerator, etc) to accurately control their temperature.


----------



## Bliorg

Tinwakr said:


> Let us know how it goes, I dosed mine with another 1-1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme and still isn’t clearing as it should.


So Friday we added 4+ teaspoons of the powder. Mixed with a little water to slurry so it wouldn’t clump on the surface then stirred into the wine for like three or four minutes. Wine is right at 70F. Maybe a slight improvement since then. Not the improvement I was hoping for. I’m now wondering if I should fine with bentonite in case it’s protein, fine again with Dualfine, or buy fresh (liquid) pectic enzyme in case my powder was past expiry. Regardless I’m now jacking with this enough that I’m afraid it’s going to be detrimental to quality. Ugh.


----------



## Keith5

Hi Bliorg, get a cheap 24 hour timer for $5-10 and use with Brew Belt. Just set it to go on and off every 2-3 hours. Check temps, this worked fairly good until I got PID controller. Also you can use it to turn lamp light on and off when you go on vacation


----------



## Bliorg

Keith5 said:


> Hi Bliorg, get a cheap 24 hour timer for $5-10 and use with Brew Belt. Just set it to go on and off every 2-3 hours. Check temps, this worked fairly good until I got PID controller. Also you can use it to turn lamp light on and off when you go on vacation


Something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071VLQLRY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 ? Interesting idea.


----------



## Keith5

That’s very close to the timer I have. Inexpensive and has multiple uses. Remember though, the PID is the most accurate solution, but timer is close enough until you want more control


----------



## Bliorg

Okay, last effort on the maybe-pectin haze: Went out and got liquid pectic enzyme and a FermWrap. Pulled a sample before, and it's definitely more clear, but shining a light through the carboy shows a lot of haze still. Double dosed the PE, stirred three minutes, airlocked. Attached the heat and have it on steady to bring it up to temp, then will have the timer set to run 30 minutes, off an hour (read that online somewhere). Attached one of those stick-on thermometers just to get an idea - reading 66F now.

If this doesn't do it, well, dunno.


----------



## Keith5

Sounds good to me. If it doesn’t work out, just call it Pectic Haze instead of Purple Haze. Lol. If you would eat the pectin as a fruit, surely we can drink it as wine.dont fret, that’s why we don’t do this for a living. I think you’ll be fine with your solution


----------



## Tinwakr

Bliorg said:


> Okay, last effort on the maybe-pectin haze: Went out and got liquid pectic enzyme and a FermWrap. Pulled a sample before, and it's definitely more clear, but shining a light through the carboy shows a lot of haze still. Double dosed the PE, stirred three minutes, airlocked. Attached the heat and have it on steady to bring it up to temp, then will have the timer set to run 30 minutes, off an hour (read that online somewhere). Attached one of those stick-on thermometers just to get an idea - reading 66F now.
> 
> If this doesn't do it, well, dunno.



Mine has become crystal clear, gonna let it sit for an additional few weeks and then bottle.

My apple wine however hasn’t cleared as nicely but is almost clear. Hopefully when I am ready to bottle my DB the apple will also be ready.


----------



## Bliorg

Well, I'm easing off the gas on this a bit now - my son goes back to school this weekend, so not likely that we'll finish it together... 

I'm hopeful that this will clear now. The glassful I pulled was much nicer than before. Time to let time do its thing. But the temp has come up a bit already, so I'm curious to see if the enzymes will work.

We did run up to Keystone this afternoon and picked up a floor corker, bottles, and some miscellany. So even if we're not bottling together, we did that part as a team.


----------



## TyYoda

You might be surprised - you might be bottling first thing Sat morning or Friday evening. With my first batch I had to had to hit it with pectic enzyme and I really had a hard time being patient - I wanted it to clear so badly. Fortunately after two or so days it cleared. I can now see why folks filter after clearing. While aging in the Carboy (after the initial clear over the past 10 days) I noticed the DB settled out some wispy stuff to the bottom of the bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

Even after clearing, I run mine through a simple gravity filter to prevent sediment in the bottles.


----------



## Tinwakr

dangerdave said:


> Even after clearing, I run mine through a simple gravity filter to prevent sediment in the bottles.



Can you tell us what kind of gravity filter you use?


----------



## cmason1957

Tinwakr said:


> Can you tell us what kind of gravity filter you use?


I use the KLR filter system, simple gravity fed. https://klrfilter.com/

Very simple, fairly inexpensive, adds maybe 4 or 5 minutes to the gravity racking time. Has been reviewed and evaluated by Daniel Pambianchi (considered by many to be seated at the right hand of god) http://www.techniquesinhomewinemaking.com/home winemaking product reviews.html


----------



## Okie Parrish

Had the same problem with my DB few months Back wouldnt clear after 2 doses of sparkloid and a double shot of pectic and 2 months time....guy at the brew shop suggested superkleer....put in around lunch on Saturday woke up Sunday morning to the clearest wine I ever made


----------



## Cellar Vader

Okie Parrish said:


> Had the same problem with my DB few months Back wouldnt clear after 2 doses of sparkloid and a double shot of pectic and 2 months time....guy at the brew shop suggested superkleer....put in around lunch on Saturday woke up Sunday morning to the clearest wine I ever made


Good to know. How much Superkleer did you use for this batch?


----------



## Bliorg

Okie Parrish said:


> Had the same problem with my DB few months Back wouldnt clear after 2 doses of sparkloid and a double shot of pectic and 2 months time....guy at the brew shop suggested superkleer....put in around lunch on Saturday woke up Sunday morning to the clearest wine I ever made


Okay, lemme ask a general question: What is the capacity, or is there a capacity, of kieselsol/chitosan finings? I hit this with Super Kleer after racking initially. Almost instantly there was a good 1-1/4” of sediment, which seemed like a lot. Is it possible that there were more solids present than a packet of Super Kleer could handle? I picked up a packet of Dualfine (same diff) and planned to use it if/when the PE did its thing. I’m leaning now toward giving this another day warmed and if no joy, Dualfine. Thoughts?


----------



## willie

Bliorg said:


> Okay, lemme ask a general question: What is the capacity, or is there a capacity, of kieselsol/chitosan finings? I hit this with Super Kleer after racking initially. Almost instantly there was a good 1-1/4” of sediment, which seemed like a lot. Is it possible that there were more solids present than a packet of Super Kleer could handle? I picked up a packet of Dualfine (same diff) and planned to use it if/when the PE did its thing. I’m leaning now toward giving this another day warmed and if no joy, Dualfine. Thoughts?




I don't think your clearing problem has anything to do with the Super Kleer not doing the job. If you have 1 1/4 inch of sediment I would rack it again and add 3 or 4 more teaspoons of peptic enzyme. We had a stubborn batch of Raspberry that we had to put in 8 tea spoons in it to finally get it to clear this summer. Peptic enzyme will not hurt your wine in the least. Will not harm the taste. The only wine we have had peptic haze issues with is Strawberry, Raspberry and Peach. 

Will


----------



## Bliorg

willie said:


> I don't think your clearing problem has anything to do with the Super Kleer not doing the job. If you have 1 1/4 inch of sediment I would rack it again and add 3 or 4 more teaspoons of peptic enzyme. We had a stubborn batch of Raspberry that we had to put in 8 tea spoons in it to finally get it to clear this summer. Peptic enzyme will not hurt your wine in the least. Will not harm the taste. The only wine we have had peptic haze issues with is Strawberry, Raspberry and Peach.
> 
> Will


Thanks Will. I _did_ rack it a number of days ago and I’m probably up to that much PE at this point. Temp is holding around 75F now. Maybe marginally better since yesterday. I’m in a holding pattern right now...


----------



## willie

Bliorg said:


> Thanks Will. I _did_ rack it a number of days ago and I’m probably up to that much PE at this point. Temp is holding around 75F now. Maybe marginally better since yesterday. I’m in a holding pattern right now...




75F is perfect temp while clearing. And giving the wine time to sit is a good thing to help in clearing. Good luck. 

Will


----------



## Bliorg

Well, there's a marked improvement since yesterday. It's kind of hard to tell, as the wine is so dark anyway, but it appears to be essentially clear. I think I'm going to let it go another day and see where we're at. I love it when a plan comes together!


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

I sure hope it works out for you.

My first batch is wrapping up primary now. I should get offline and go put it in a carboy...


----------



## Johnd

Johnd said:


> I have a DB variant that I'm trying this year, no lemon juice, acid adjusted with tartaric, Lallzyme EX-V, tsp tannins, 60 lbs triple berry, very little water, sugar to 1.110, KV1-1116 temp spiked up into the high 80's. Been done a few months and sitting in a six and one gallon vessel clearing (got 7 gallons). It was a bear to press with all of the tiny particulate matter from the raspberries and blackberries, they just broke down into sludge. Haven't tasted it yet and probably won't fool with it until this years wine goes into the barrel, smells super good and very fruity so far.



Decided to finish up the variant yesterday, it was crystal clear with a pH of 3.51, elected to break out the super jet filter for a little polishing before bottling. Filtered it into a carboy with sulfite and sorbate already measured and dumped into the bottom, the wine is super dark red (it’s in clear bottles) and has an incredibly fruity aroma, it filled the room. 

First taste after filtering was very fruity, but a little tart and just a tad bitter. Racked off a gallon for some bench trials, 1/4 cup / gallon, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 cup. In the end, the ladies picked the 1/2 cup / gallon sugar bump, same one I was leaning to. 

Sugar on board, it was bottled, corked, capsuled and labeled, and will be ready for summer. Wifey never much cared for the Dragons Blood label, and has always called it Rainbow Wine. She makes the labels and drinks it, so what do I care...........


----------



## Bliorg

Pectic enzyme + heat = clear:


IMG_0817 by Scott, on Flickr

Racked, did some trials to nail down sugar. Ended up at a finished SG of 1.002. Needs some time for flavors to come out a bit I think.  I'm letting things sit a few days (wife needs to taste test yet), then will bottle.


----------



## HymnandHerd

Johngottshall said:


> Bottled and labeled my batch of Tropical blend this stuff is delicious
> 
> View attachment 27021
> 
> 
> View attachment 27022


What’d you use to backsweeten?


----------



## sugar

Hello to all,
Starting a new batch (banana and coconut)
Did a strawberry, pineapple,and Frozen grape concentrate using the DB formula as my Base...made 25 bottles.... all gone.
I'm asking has anyone finished a banana and coconut fruit wine?
Any and all thoughts wecome.
Sugar


----------



## dangerdave

I love watching this thread! Great work people!


----------



## beano

.


dangerdave said:


> I love watching this thread! Great work people!



Dave, it's all because of you buddy! Thanks for giving us this most wonderful and versatile way to make Wine. I truly enjoy making and drinking it.


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

Mine is coming along nicely. I transferred to secondary, and within 2 days had a 1.5 inch layer of Lees. So I racked it again and this morning it had cleared considerably again.

I'm impressed with the flavor so far. I was expecting a light blush, but this is big and fruity. Looking forward to playing with this stuff.

Thanks Dave for sharing this recipe


----------



## TyYoda

Racked and bottled my first batch of DB. Started on 12/16, finished fermenting on 12/22, back sweetened on 12/31 (.992 to 1.008) and aged for a whopping three weeks before bottling tonight. Tastes great.

Tweaks included 9# triple berry and 1 can of Welch frozen red grape juice, juice from a couple of ripe bananas, 4 tsp extra tannin and 4 oz oak chips. Got 29.75 bottles (not counting the two bottles I previously drank already)

Used my vacuum pump and vacuum pump accessories from the all in one pump website to rack and bottle for the first time. Made racking and bottling it piece of cake. Loved being able to rack, bottle, cork while standing! Was also able to cork a bottle while filling another bottles at the same time. Makes for a fast bottling session.

Next batch will be Dragonette!


----------



## Copperjoe1

DC67E5BA-F65D-41F8-BAEA-E6E3A80CB8D1



__ Copperjoe1
__ Jan 23, 2019



DB in the clearing stages.





DB in final clearing stages.


----------



## Bliorg

It _is_ beautiful.


Untitled by Scott, on Flickr

Ended up with 31 full bottles somehow.


Untitled by Scott, on Flickr



Untitled by Scott, on Flickr

Unfortunately my son wasn't able to help bottle. But his sister was. She enjoyed using the new floor corker. 

Have a bottle in the fridge. All good.
Scott


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

I love the label Bliorg. Looks great!


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

Getting ready to run some backweetening experiments. 

SWMBO took a taste bone dry, poured herself a glass and headed for a bath. DB trials are off to a good start! I'm having a taste dry as well and I would have a tough time telling it from my chokecherry from 3 years ago if they were side by side. Tart but enjoyable.

I've got a gallon to test with and 6 gallons in a carboy awaiting it's fate.


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

So the verdict is in. We liked it best at an sg of 1.000. According to my calculations, performed after drinking a lot of this very tasty beverare rather quickly, that amounts to 2.6g sugar/100ml.

Sitting here I'm amazed at what a touch of sweetness will do to the flavor of a dry tart wine. That 3 year old chokecherry never would have survived until today had I backsweetened it. 

When I was just a pup, before the internet made this sort of exchange of ideas so easy, I used to go down to my favorite LHBS for guidance. That guy treated me fantastically, laid a solid foundation so to speak. But one time, when I mentioned that I planned to backsweeten my first strawberry wine, he told me to never ever under any circumstance backsweeten a wine. 

That was the worst advice i was ever given, because i took it as gospel, written in stone! Maybe what he told me was due to a bad experience he had, maybe the kid in his store had just stumbled onto the secret to his success ( there were a lot of medals and awards on his walls). 

I've sat on bottles for years, waiting for "the sweetness to come out"and been dissapointed every time i opened the last of the batch. I see fruit wines in a whole new light now. I'm excited for summer now lol.

 cheers to all of you who post your experiences here on the forum so that those who come after you may avoid the school of hard knocks. And once again, thanks to Dave for sharing this recipe!


----------



## Tinwakr

Here my latest batch, letting it sit right now, no time to bottle.


----------



## dangerdave

THIS is why I shared the recipe. You all make my day, every day.

You are more than welcome! Everyone enjoy!


----------



## Michael Alspaugh

ThreeSheetsToTheWind said:


> So the verdict is in. We liked it best at an sg of 1.000. According to my calculations, performed after drinking a lot of this very tasty beverare rather quickly, that amounts to 2.6g sugar/100ml.
> 
> Sitting here I'm amazed at what a touch of sweetness will do to the flavor of a dry tart wine. That 3 year old chokecherry never would have survived until today had I backsweetened it.
> 
> When I was just a pup, before the internet made this sort of exchange of ideas so easy, I used to go down to my favorite LHBS for guidance. That guy treated me fantastically, laid a solid foundation so to speak. But one time, when I mentioned that I planned to backsweeten my first strawberry wine, he told me to never ever under any circumstance backsweeten a wine.
> 
> That was the worst advice i was ever given, because i took it as gospel, written in stone! Maybe what he told me was due to a bad experience he had, maybe the kid in his store had just stumbled onto the secret to his success ( there were a lot of medals and awards on his walls).
> 
> I've sat on bottles for years, waiting for "the sweetness to come out"and been dissapointed every time i opened the last of the batch. I see fruit wines in a whole new light now. I'm excited for summer now lol.
> 
> cheers to all of you who post your experiences here on the forum so that those who come after you may avoid the school of hard knocks. And once again, thanks to Dave for sharing this recipe!


I'm happy to here you say this because I too have found that no matter what kind of fruit I used a tiny bit of back sweetening brought out the true taste of the fruit. It takes it from moonshine "In my eyes that is" to a very enjoyable drink that gives me a nice buzz!!!! My wife freaks out when I say back sweetening but even she agrees that a slight amount of sweet flavor changes it to smooth a silk and that is what we love Smooth wine.


----------



## Turn About Wines

Threesheets, 
I was also told to never backsweeten a wine, and would sit on a wine hoping that time would bring out the sweetness only to be disappointed. After allowing several gallons to sit, I took a sample and backsweetened it. It was a different ballgame afer that experiment. Now my family and friends are constantly requesting wine and even bringing me fruit to process.


----------



## KCCam

Well, here we go. I found this forum a couple months ago. Planned to make some DB for Christmas, but got vetoed by SWMBO (I use that term very lovingly). I have to do my wine in the kitchen and she wanted the space for entertaining family, or some such silly thing. Since I had the extra time, I read this entire thread, plus the couple threads that spawned it. I highly recommend you DO IT too! There is a *wealth* of information here. You just have to read a couple pages here and there and in no time you’re done. It’s worth it. So many questions answered! 

So... I started a Skeeter Pee and a Dragon Blood 3 weeks ago. The DB is coming along slowly but surely, but my SP has been nothing but trouble. I followed the recipe to a T, except for pitching the yeast a little too soon. I’ll ask for help on that forum tho. 

My DB variation is doing much better, although much slower than I expected. 

8.8 lbs Costco (Canada) triple berry mix
32 oz Realemon
1.5 lbs Sultana raisins
6 very ripe bananas, sliced, with skins
16 lbs sugar (starting SG 1.110)
Water to about 7.5 gal (I accidentally overshot due to adding the extra sugar)
EC-1118 yeast
1 pair ladies’ knee-high nylons (thanks Dave)
all other ingredients per recipe 
All of those tweaks seem very common and reasonable, except for maybe the very high starting SG. James is the only one I ever recall saying he went that high. (I miss him.) Dave says he likes fermenting quite warm, so my belt and towel kept things in the low to mid 80’s. Maybe a little warmer than I should have. 

Day #20, SG down to 0.992 and still dropping. I decided to vacuum rack to a carboy and let it finish there. 

Can’t wait! It tastes so good, even now with no backsweetening.


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

Michael and Turn about, that's exactly what I mean. Mine doesnt even taste sweet, it just balanced the tartness so it doesn't feel like I'm trying to swallow an angry cat. And I can taste the fruit now.

KCCam, that's almost exactly the recipe I used, except I wanted an abv just a hair over 10%. I think I'll be sticking to this recipe. Fellow Canadian here


----------



## KCCam

ThreeSheetsToTheWind said:


> Fellow Canadian here


Cheers! That avatar kind of gives you away. Wait a second... I thought that was a shovel! That’s not you in the ice water, is it?


----------



## KCCam

Folks: Don’t forget to add your totals to:
https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/how-many-gallons-of-lon-ds-skeeter-pee-have-been-made.36683

Almost 4000 gallons logged since it was started almost 6 years ago! Woo hoo!

Thanks Lon & Dave! What a legacy.


----------



## Billie Rezarch

I have been reading and following this thread for a while and I'm not even close to reading it through so this question may have been answered already! I have my first batch of DB (and actually first batch of wine) going and am planning to bottle this weekend. I back sweetened last Sunday and its not showing any signs of refermentation so let the first bottling begin! I do have one question: I just got into winemaking and have lots of plans for next batches but the tasting it all got a smidge side tracked as I just found out I'm expecting my second child and won't be drinking any wine for quite some time. My wine will have plenty of time to age without worry of me dipping into it! Can you over-age DB? The batch I have going is the original recipe but using quad berries. I have everything to start a tropical batch after this but want to make sure it won't over age before I can drink it!

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## KCCam

I’m just a newbie here, but I’ve read lots. I think the general consensus here for the original recipe (1 lb fruit per gallon), is that it peaks at about 3 months in the bottle. Some say it’s even better at 6 months. At a year, some say it starts to go downhill, some say it keeps getting better. Most can’t keep it around that long. Btw, congratulations! And make sure you let everyone know what yours tastes like after 9 months. Our first-born was 10 weeks early - hope you don’t get to taste that soon!


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

Congrats Billie! 

I'm sure your DB will taste that much better when you get to properly celebrate the newest addition to your family! I wish I could give my wines a 9 month head start lol.


----------



## Billie Rezarch

Thanks all, we're excited to add to our little family! I was first a little disappointed that I timed my foray into wine making so perfectly but then realized I could age a bunch of wine without having to test my patience! I do feel a little bad for my husband as I told him he wouldn't be enjoying any of my wine until I could  If anyone has any recommendations for (easier) wines I can make that might take longer to clear or need aging, I have time!


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

Billie Rezarch said:


> I told him he wouldn't be enjoying any of my wine until I could


 lol stern but fair. Signs of a good moma.



Billie Rezarch said:


> anyone has any recommendations for (easier) wines I can make that might take longer to clear or need aging, I have time!



Joes Ancient Orange Mead (JOAM for short) is easy, and will test your patience for sure lol. You're just expected to mix it up and leave it alone until the fruit eventually sinks, like 8 months to a year! Like I'm not going to touch it for that long...

I messed with the recipe slightly, which as you will read, you're not supposed to do. But I'm a big boy, I'll do what I want. It's still fermenting almost a month later, and the one tiny sip I've had has me thinking I need to start more.


----------



## TyYoda

Try some Apple juice, banana and frozen Strawberry wines. Check out http://winemaking.jackkeller.net for recipes or do a google search. These are easy to make and benefit from 6 - 12 month bulk aging.


----------



## Tinwakr

TyYoda said:


> Try some Apple juice, banana and frozen Strawberry wines. Check out http://winemaking.jackkeller.net for recipes or do a google search. These are easy to make and benefit from 6 - 12 month bulk aging.



The page came up blank.


----------



## sour_grapes

Tinwakr said:


> The page came up blank.



Evidently, you need an explict "index" part to the URL:

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp


----------



## Tinwakr

sour_grapes said:


> Evidently, you need an explict "index" part to the URL:
> 
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp



Thank you. Got so far and then blank page again, lol


----------



## TyYoda

It's a bug on his website. After two pages of recipes, the third page is blank.

The rest of the recipes are under the Requested recipes section. Try this link and scroll to the end of the page and you will see a complete index of recipes. 

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/request.asp


----------



## MickeyB

Finally bottled the muscadine/lemon. Definitely as good as the first batch. Six gallons just doesn’t last long.


----------



## daveb50

I had read somewhere that lemon juice has nothing in it that will ferment, and it can be added after fermentation with no difference in final taste. Has anybody tried that, besides whoever stated it? Sorry, but I have read so much about DB and SK that I cannot remember where I read it. I started a Dragonette and wondered if I could just add some lemon juice if I didn't like how it turned out.


----------



## Johnd

daveb50 said:


> I had read somewhere that lemon juice has nothing in it that will ferment, and it can be added after fermentation with no difference in final taste. Has anybody tried that, besides whoever stated it? Sorry, but I have read so much about DB and SK that I cannot remember where I read it. I started a Dragonette and wondered if I could just add some lemon juice if I didn't like how it turned out.



Lemon juice has sugar in it, and sugar will ferment, so adding it to a finished wine could potentially kick fermentation back off if you've not used sorbate or sterile filtering before doing so. 

Lemon juice does indeed have a taste and flavor and will affect the taste of your wine when added in significant quantities. Additionally, it's very acidic and can also affect the acidity (and consequently the taste) of your wine when used in significant quantities. I'm not sure how much you are planning to add, but certainly a couple of drops in a 6 gallon carboy wouldn't be what I would consider a significant quantity.


----------



## daveb50

After reading your post, I looked up lemon juice, and it has 6g of sugar per cup. I will wait until it's done, and maybe try a few drops in a glass. Thanks for your response.


----------



## dangerdave

I hadn’t heard that but it does make sense. It was always my opinion that the acid in the juice helps with the extraction of color and flavor from the skins. But if you’re not relying on that then it could certainly be added for flavoring.


----------



## Tinwakr

Second batch of DB, 33 bottles, woot. Also bottled apple wine today. Almost all set for summer, lol. Also have a 6 gallon batch of Tropical DB going which should be ready in 1-1/2 weeks.


----------



## Jal5

Just sarted a tropical variant using kumquats plus a walmart frozen fruit mix of pineapple, peach, stawberry, mango IIRC. three gallon batch. We will see how it goes but it smells great in the primary. 
Joe


----------



## willie

Jal5 said:


> Just sarted a tropical variant using kumquats plus a walmart frozen fruit mix of pineapple, peach, stawberry, mango IIRC. three gallon batch. We will see how it goes but it smells great in the primary.
> Joe



Hey I just bottled a batch of the tropical version. I didn't use kumquats but I did use bananas and peach juice along with the wally world mixed fruit that you used. You should really like it. Especially with the warmer weather coming. 

Will


----------



## Michael Roberts

Starting a 6 gallon batch tomorrow, going to follow Dragon Dave's recipe except half the lemon juice. Will keep you all posted.


----------



## Jal5

It smells terrific already! Only problem is no hydrometer with me on this extended vacation so I will be flying blind as far as how it’s going and estimated ABV.


----------



## Jal5

I started a 3 g batch of DB 4 days ago and fermentation was vigorous for that time but today it’s down to a small amount of bubbles. Temp was around 77 deg in the room. Don’t have my normal tools to check temp of must or SG since we are not home. 
This was a kumquat mix with tropical fruits. 

Should I proceed to rack and airlock it or pitch more yeast?
Joe


----------



## MickeyB

Haven’t done a tropical, but have only had one require more than four days to finish once the ferment started. I’d degas and rack it.


----------



## G259

Maybe take a sample and try it, see what the sugar level is on your tongue. That could at least give you a guestimate on the SG.


----------



## Jal5

Still tastes sweet to some degree and is slowly fermenting. Plan to rack and degass tomorrow and put it under airlock


----------



## dangerdave

If it’s still fermenting, don’t bother it. I usually leave mine in the primary for 7-10 days even if it appears to stop fermenting. The only way you can tell for sure it’s finished in primary is to check the SG. Otherwise, your just guessing. Degassing will do no good if it’s not finished. It will recarbonate itself.
Patience...


----------



## Tinwakr

Dragon’s in paradise now clearing. Used peaches and mangos.


----------



## Jal5

Decided to do s new starter of yeast and added yesterday. Wow this one took off like crazy! Just what was needed.


----------



## MickeyB

Tinwakr said:


> Dragon’s in paradise now clearing. Used peaches and mangos.
> 
> View attachment 53619



Looks like a banana I have going. 

Busy weekend here with the winter weather setting in. Bottled red grape/niagara, heavy muscadine, and strawberry/niagara, all one gallon batch tests. Racked 3 gallons of blackberry, one gallon cherry/niagara, six gallons of niagara, and racked and sweetened a heavy cherry. Today will bottle 5 gallons of heavy raspberry, one of the few heavy fruit wines have found I like thus far. Do love muscadine, but have found the muscadine/lemon to be my fav, as seems to be the consensus with most I’ve gifted it to. The last six gallon batch was down to six bottles already, so started six gallons more. 

Been fun learning what I like and don’t like. Have found that, unlike many, I prefer lighter wines. If I have to ‘chew’ through it, count me out. Will add some pics if I can figure out how.


----------



## willie

Tinwakr said:


> Dragon’s in paradise now clearing. Used peaches and mangos.
> 
> View attachment 53619


That batch looks great. Should taste delicious this coming spring and summer. 

Will


----------



## Tinwakr

Just wondering what to back sweeten with.


----------



## willie

Tinwakr said:


> Just wondering what to back sweeten with.


We always use organic or cane sugar. About 4.5 - 5 cups.


----------



## franc1969

Anyone sweetened with a Monin or Torani syrup? I am debating the added flavor shortcut and wondering about how much compared to sugar.


----------



## Tinwakr

I wonder what a dark brown sugar would be like?


----------



## Pistol Bill

Tinwakr said:


> Just wondering what to back sweeten with.


Assuming you fermented to 0 (the need to back sweeten), I had great success with that liquid conditioner that contains potassium sorbate. Sweetens and prevents re-fermentation.


----------



## Pistol Bill

Tinwakr said:


> I wonder what a dark brown sugar would be like?


It would definitely alter the flavor with the presence of molasses.


----------



## TwistedVines

Started my first batch of Dragonblood with the quad berries yesterday. Added the yeast today Hopefully it goes well!!


----------



## Tinwakr

5 days and Dragon’s in paradise isn’t clearing, a lot of solids on the bottom of the carboy but still not clear.
Any ideas? Rack and more Sparkoloid and pectic enzyme maybe?


----------



## Pistol Bill

Tinwakr said:


> 5 days and Dragon’s in paradise isn’t clearing, a lot of solids on the bottom of the carboy but still not clear.
> Any ideas? Rack and more Sparkoloid and pectic enzyme maybe?


I am going through just that with my 4 berry blend, high ABV/dry batch. Second go around with bentonite. Still have suspended floaties. I will wait 3 more days to see if it clears. Then ract off, add a bit of pectic enzyme and Spark. We will see. Buy the way, the sweeter batch of the same berries cleared great when I blended bentonite and spark. I did this as a experiment. Most feel this would have been counterproductive. Seems to have worked on the sweet 4 berry blend batch. Good luck


----------



## daveb50

Racked 4 gallons of Dragonette triple berry today since it has cleared. I added Davinci sugar free sweetener to back sweeten 3 gallons. To the 4th gallon I added some Lemon and Key Lime juice. Will let it all set for a couple more months before tasting again.


----------



## TyYoda

Tinwakr said:


> 5 days and Dragon’s in paradise isn’t clearing, a lot of solids on the bottom of the carboy but still not clear.
> Any ideas? Rack and more Sparkoloid and pectic enzyme maybe?


Time and patience is my best suggestion. I get the sense that some fruit wines take a long time to clear. I would rack it every 2 months and add meta every other racking until it clears. I have a friend that almost always takes a year to make his fruit wines and rarely does he use a fining agent. The rackings also help get out the CO2 which helps the clearing. Dragon Blood clears so fast it spoils us bad.


----------



## SteveR87

I just started a first page of DB and now have to go out of town for 2 days. I finished step one but haven’t pitched the yeast yet. Can I wait a few days or do I need to pitch it, stir it tomorrow and then skip a day and stir when I get back?


----------



## Pistol Bill

SteveR87 said:


> I just started a first page of DB and now have to go out of town for 2 days. I finished step one but haven’t pitched the yeast yet. Can I wait a few days or do I need to pitch it, stir it tomorrow and then skip a day and stir when I get back?


Have you added campden yet? If you have not and plan to, add now and in 2 days you are ready to pitch. If you do not plan to add campden (my opinion you should if you are using wild fruit), the juice should be ok if you keep it cool until you return. good luck


----------



## willie

SteveR87 said:


> I just started a first page of DB and now have to go out of town for 2 days. I finished step one but haven’t pitched the yeast yet. Can I wait a few days or do I need to pitch it, stir it tomorrow and then skip a day and stir when I get back?



Just to add to your post. I would do what ever you normally do with your yeast and stirring. Going away for a couple of days will not matter in the least. I have been sick and let the ferment sit for 2-3 days and it really made no difference. I would add the yeast so it is fermenting while your away.

Will


----------



## SteveR87

Thanks for the replies I pitched the yeast and will take my chances. I used frozen three berry fruit from Costco. Do I need to add a campden tablet? I didn’t see that in the instructions but have done it for other wines.


----------



## willie

SteveR87 said:


> Thanks for the replies I pitched the yeast and will take my chances. I used frozen three berry fruit from Costco. Do I need to add a campden tablet? I didn’t see that in the instructions but have done it for other wines.



Hey again. As has been said you only need to use the camped tablets when using fresh fruit. Your good to go with frozen fruit. Dave's recipe is pretty much full proof. Follow it and you will have a terrific batch of wine . Good luck. 

Will


----------



## scurry64

I bottled my first batch of Danger Dave's Dragon Blood this morning. Im very pleased with end result. 

I tried these PET bottles for the first time as well. I think I like them. 

Cheers!


----------



## beano

I added some Torani vanilla syrup (4oz.)


franc1969 said:


> Anyone sweetened with a Monin or Torani syrup? I am debating the added flavor shortcut and wondering about how much compared to sugar.


to a gallon of blueberry/blackberry DB and it was fantastic.


----------



## porkchopmessiah

could somebody post links to some of the variations of 
DB, like the tropical....going through 235 pages looking for them has proved fruitless thus far (pun intended)


----------



## Ajmassa

porkchopmessiah said:


> could somebody post links to some of the variations of
> DB, like the tropical....going through 235 pages looking for them has proved fruitless thus far (pun intended)



Here’s the OG recipe. Best I could do. Never made this though. I made the “Dragonette” I think it’s called. Basically the difference was half the lemon juice and double the fruit.


----------



## TwistedVines

porkchopmessiah said:


> could somebody post links to some of the variations of
> DB, like the tropical



Yes, I would like the tropical recipe as well. I have seen reference to it but have not found the original tropical one. Thanks!


----------



## TwistedVines

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/tropical-daze.36346/

Is this the recipe for tropical DB?


----------



## porkchopmessiah

Would be cool to have recipe thread where its strictly recipe and comments from the poster...


----------



## Ajmassa

porkchopmessiah said:


> Would be cool to have recipe thread where its strictly recipe and comments from the poster...



There is. A whole section of recipes with individual threads. Within the “winemaking”
Forum. 

DRAGONETTE: Triple Berry Wine
https://www.winemakingtalk.com/index.php?posts/381624/


----------



## porkchopmessiah

Ajmassa5983 said:


> There is. A whole section of recipes with individual threads. Within the “winemaking”
> Forum.
> 
> DRAGONETTE: Triple Berry Wine
> https://www.winemakingtalk.com/index.php?posts/381624/


I know,,lol but you have to go thru 30 pages of posts to find a recipe....


----------



## Ajmassa

porkchopmessiah said:


> I know,,lol but you have to go thru 30 pages of posts to find a recipe....



Yeah I just found out the hard way. And now recall dealing with the same aggravation when I did my DB lol. Searching through DB posts is probably the most difficult thing on this forum - they are endless!




TwistedVines said:


> https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/tropical-daze.36346/
> 
> Is this the recipe for tropical DB?



Yeah I’m Pretty sure that’s the main one. Lots of variations tho. Here’s what DangerDave said. Right from the horses mouth,(not sure if there is an official danger save tropical recipe posted or not)


dangerdave said:


> I make a "version" of the Dragon Blood recipe, highly modified. No lemon juice. Tropical fruit instead of the triple berry. The lemon juice is replaced with three tsp of acid blend. Other than that, it uses the same process/recipe.


----------



## willie

porkchopmessiah said:


> Would be cool to have recipe thread where its strictly recipe and comments from the poster...




It was recommended to me a couple of years ago to first try a search engine. I use duckduckgo.com but any one will work. Many times the search would lead me to the wine talk web site. 

Will


----------



## SteveR87

I appreciate everyone’s help with my first batch of DB. Now for another question - my batch started at 1.09 a few days ago and hit .998 today. It smells yeasty and not really fruity - is that normal? Also, I was planning on removing the fruit tomorrow and putting the airlock on for 2-3 days before racking into the secondary. Does that sound right?


----------



## wildhair

Smelling "yeasty" right now would be normal - the yeast is still active or just finished doing it's thing. As for the "not much flavor" - I had issues with the flavor of my first batch of DB. I found it weak & watery, too acidic and not much flavor. After racking, adding the pot. meta & sorbate & clearing it - I backsweetened with 2 cans of frozen white grape juice concentrate, 4 cans of Berry Blend frozen juice concentrate and some calcium carbonate to reduce the acid. Ended up as my wife's favorite! I just made another batch with 4# of fruit per gallon and less lemon juice - waiting for it to clear now. Then I'll backsweeten with the concentrated juices like before.

I waited 4 weeks to see if it started fermenting again (it didn't) and for any solids from the juice to drift to the bottom. It remained clear with almost no residue on the bottom of the carboy.


----------



## SteveR87

Thanks - this is very helpful and helps me breathe a little easier.


----------



## TwistedVines

7B5B5D6F-477F-4606-936E-6CF283893FD2



__ TwistedVines
__ Mar 19, 2019



Quad Berry Dragon Blood 6gallons




6 gallons of Quad Berry Dragon Blood clearing


----------



## TwistedVines

The hardest decision is deciding what to try next...blueberry dragon blood, tropical daze, skeeter pee, dragonette, juice, frozen berries, concentrate... with two empty fermenters, the struggle is real!!


----------



## blossomfarm

I used one 3 pound bags of Triple Berry and 3 pounds of Blackberry's, I was thinking about back sweeting with 3 - 18 ounce jars of blackberry jam.... anyone have experience using jam? Thought it would bring of the flavor.


----------



## wildhair

I have not personally tried it - I have read where others have. It's sort of like an F-pac. If I were going to try this - I would probably heat up the jam & then liquefy it in a blender with a little water to make it easier to stir in. It may affect the clarity - you may have to give it additional time to clear. I'd be interested in hearing how it worked out.


----------



## scurry64

6 gallons of cherry lime dragon blood bottled this morning and 12 gallons of original dragon blood in the primary fermenter in the background of the pic. Im almost ready for summer, but my skeeter pee is taking forever to clear. By the way, the cherry lime tastes a lot like a traditional semisweet grape wine.


----------



## Cathy's Winery

I have been making your recipe for about 4 batches of wine thanks love it. Have a batch of Blueberry and Dragons Blood. This is my second batch of Dragons Blood also made Strawberry. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## jwolf99

scurry64 said:


> 6 gallons of cherry lime dragon blood bottled this morning and 12 gallons of original dragon blood in the primary fermenter in the background of the pic. Im almost ready for summer, but my skeeter pee is taking forever to clear. By the way, the cherry lime tastes a lot like a traditional semisweet grape wine.
> View attachment 53911



scurry64 - Great idea on what looks like single-serve portions using the juice-style containers (12 or 16 oz?). I've been re-using sanitized V8 Fusion plastic bottles (64 oz) which is nice for a crowd but suboptimal when I want to enjoy just a single serve of Dragon's Blood on a random night. Did you buy these in bulk from somewhere?


----------



## dangerdave

Cathy's Winery said:


> I have been making your recipe for about 4 batches of wine thanks love it. Have a batch of Blueberry and Dragons Blood. This is my second batch of Dragons Blood also made Strawberry. Thanks for sharing.



Thank you for trying the recipe. Share the love!


----------



## scurry64

jwolf99 said:


> scurry64 - Great idea on what looks like single-serve portions using the juice-style containers (12 or 16 oz?). I've been re-using sanitized V8 Fusion plastic bottles (64 oz) which is nice for a crowd but suboptimal when I want to enjoy just a single serve of Dragon's Blood on a random night. Did you buy these in bulk from somewhere?


These are 16 oz bottles that I purchased on Amazon. They look nice and they are the perfect size for me.

The only drawback I've found is that some of the bottles, but not all, leaked a little when I laid them on their side. Since it was just some of the bottles that leaked, it may have been operator error. Also, you'll want to wrap a paper towel or napkin over the lid when you tighten them down. I gave myself a nice blister when I bottled the first batch.

The bottles are reusable, but the lids are not. I haven't been able to find replacement lids yet. That doesn't mean they're not out there. The manufacturer told me they are 38mm lids.


----------



## SteveR87

scurry64 said:


> These are 16 oz bottles that I purchased on Amazon. They look nice and they are the perfect size for me.
> 
> The only drawback I've found is that some of the bottles, but not all, leaked a little when I laid them on their side. Since it was just some of the bottles that leaked, it may have been operator error. Also, you'll want to wrap a paper towel or napkin over the lid when you tighten them down. I gave myself a nice blister when I bottled the first batch.
> 
> The bottles are reusable, but the lids are not. I haven't been able to find replacement lids yet. That doesn't mean they're not out there. The manufacturer told me they are 38mm lids.



When you put the lids on are they just a screw type top or do they have some kind of safety seal too? Kind of like the kind that are on plastic soda bottles that leave a plastic ring on the neck once opened.


----------



## scurry64

SteveR87 said:


> When you put the lids on are they just a screw type top or do they have some kind of safety seal too? Kind of like the kind that are on plastic soda bottles that leave a plastic ring on the neck once opened.


Yes. There is a plastic safety seal ring similar to a soda bottle. Maybe you can see it in this picture.


----------



## Mountainjack

Here is a source of supply for the lids https://www.amazon.com/Black-Juice-...7&s=gateway&sprefix=38mm+lids,aps,178&sr=8-38


----------



## Elmer

Ok,
Getting back into making some fruit wine.
Leaving out the lemon as it makes it too acidic and in favorable among my circle of drinkers.
However I am faced with the same issue which plagued and frustrated me when following the directions on this particular fruit wine.
I cannot fit 12 lbs of fruit, 2lbs of sugar & 5 gallons of water into a 6 gallon bucket.
How has everyone resolved this issue?


----------



## Johnd

Elmer said:


> Ok,
> Getting back into making some fruit wine.
> Leaving out the lemon as it makes it too acidic and in favorable among my circle of drinkers.
> However I am faced with the same issue which plagued and frustrated me when following the directions on this particular fruit wine.
> I cannot fit 12 lbs of fruit, 2lbs of sugar & 5 gallons of water into a 6 gallon bucket.
> How has everyone resolved this issue?



With a larger fermenter. Most LHBS and online sources sell 7.9 gallon fermenters, and even larger.


----------



## wildhair

What John said - I have a 8 gallon fermenter I use for 5 gal recipes. Your other option is to split the initial ferment between 2 6 gal. buckets. I did that once. Mixed the water, sugar, etc. established the sg and the ph and then divided it in 2 buckets & added 1/2 the fruit to each and a packet of yeast to each. Then after the fruit is out - you can rack it ALL into a 5 gal. carboy.


----------



## almargita

wildhair said:


> What John said - I have a 8 gallon fermenter I use for 5 gal recipes. Your other option is to split the initial ferment between 2 6 gal. buckets. I did that once. Mixed the water, sugar, etc. established the sg and the ph and then divided it in 2 buckets & added 1/2 the fruit to each and a packet of yeast to each. Then after the fruit is out - you can rack it ALL into a 5 gal. carboy.


----------



## almargita

i am currently making Dragon Blood using 12 pounds of the triple berry blend also. I put the water in last after the bagged fruit, sugar & rest of stuff. Then filled to the 6 gal level. When the fruit in the bag was depleted & tossed, then topped off the primary with the water. It would never fit if you added the water first. Currently have it in a 6 1/2 gal carboy clearing. will keep it here a few weeks, re-rack, then let it sit a few more weeks. Will be ready for drinking by this summer. Got a great deal on the triple berry blend from Aldies, $4.00 for 3 pound bag during a clearance sale! Just happened to be there when they were marking it down. Seeing if this will increase the flavor by doubling the fruit.
.......Al


----------



## Copperjoe1

I just purchased these clear reusable 16oz drink pouches. I figure that I could freeze some and have wine slushees. 


CZRZJ Clear Drink Pouches Heavy Duty Hand-held Reclosable Zipper Stand-up Heat-proof Plastic Pouches with Straws, Case of 50 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JO7T0BY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fk3MCb1HJGNW9


----------



## cmason1957

almargita said:


> i am currently making Dragon Blood using 12 pounds of the triple berry blend also. I put the water in last after the bagged fruit, sugar & rest of stuff. Then filled to the 6 gal level. When the fruit in the bag was depleted & tossed, then topped off the primary with the water. It would never fit if you added the water first. Currently have it in a 6 1/2 gal carboy clearing. will keep it here a few weeks, re-rack, then let it sit a few more weeks. Will be ready for drinking by this summer. Got a great deal on the triple berry blend from Aldies, $4.00 for 3 pound bag during a clearance sale! Just happened to be there when they were marking it down. Seeing if this will increase the flavor by doubling the fruit.
> .......Al



I see a bigger fermenter in your future. Say a 10 gallon Trash Can, I can't tell for sure from the web if this one is food grade or not, but it more than likely is: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rubbermaid...on-Gray-Plastic-Trash-Can-with-Lid/1000460561


----------



## scurry64

Copperjoe1 said:


> I just purchased these clear reusable 16oz drink pouches. I figure that I could freeze some and have wine slushees.
> 
> 
> CZRZJ Clear Drink Pouches Heavy Duty Hand-held Reclosable Zipper Stand-up Heat-proof Plastic Pouches with Straws, Case of 50 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JO7T0BY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fk3MCb1HJGNW9


These look nifty. I just ordered a couple of cases.


----------



## dangerdave

I use a 32 gallon food grade Brute trash can. I make 18 gallons at a time (saves time) by simply tripling everything except the yeast—only needs one packet. Given the rate at which this stuff is consumed around here, it just makes sense!


----------



## scurry64

dangerdave said:


> I use a 32 gallon food grade Brute trash can. I make 18 gallons at a time (saves time) by simply tripling everything except the yeast—only needs one packet. Given the rate at which this stuff is consumed around here, it just makes sense!


I used a 20 gallon brute for the first time to make a12 gallon batch. I made a 1.5 quart starter with 2 sachets of yeast. It fermented down from 1.092 to 1.002 in 5 days. Super fast. I'll try it with 1 sachet of yeast next time.


----------



## Tinwakr

Well, Dragon’s in Paradise filtered and ready for bottling. SG was 1.120, FG 0.996. Whoa! 16.28% ABV. I had a wee taste and all I can really taste is the alcohol with a slight hint of the mango and peaches. The alcohol overpowers it. Any suggestions as to what would be perfect for back sweetening? This one will definitely be sitting for a while me tinks. Lol.


----------



## Elmer

wildhair said:


> What John said - I have a 8 gallon fermenter I use for 5 gal recipes. Your other option is to split the initial ferment between 2 6 gal. buckets. I did that once. Mixed the water, sugar, etc. established the sg and the ph and then divided it in 2 buckets & added 1/2 the fruit to each and a packet of yeast to each. Then after the fruit is out - you can rack it ALL into a 5 gal. carboy.



I may have to buy a new bucket or 2. Realized that one of my friends has a gluten issue & I cant use my brew bucket which has had barley and grain in it. 
Seems like an opportunity for a bigger fermentor strictly for wine or split the batch in 2.


----------



## Rodney

Tinwakr said:


> Well, Dragon’s in Paradise filtered and ready for bottling. SG was 1.120, FG 0.996. Whoa! 16.28% ABV. I had a wee taste and all I can really taste is the alcohol with a slight hint of the mango and peaches. The alcohol overpowers it. Any suggestions as to what would be perfect for back sweetening? This one will definitely be sitting for a while me tinks. Lol.
> 
> View attachment 53966


Wow!! That looks great ... Did you filter it as well?


----------



## Keith5

That Tropical Mango does look great!
Maybe make another 6 gallons iwth less sugar so lower alcohol and BLEND them. You can get that done in 3 weeks while the first carboy rests. IDK if just backsweetening by itself will get you where you want to be.itll still be way hot
Worst case scenario, you’ll have 12 gallons of DB to drink. Not the worst f all possible situations


----------



## Tinwakr

Rodney said:


> Wow!! That looks great ... Did you filter it as well?



Yes.


----------



## David W Huey

First got around one Dragons Blood


----------



## willie

Tinwakr said:


> Well, Dragon’s in Paradise filtered and ready for bottling. SG was 1.120, FG 0.996. Whoa! 16.28% ABV. I had a wee taste and all I can really taste is the alcohol with a slight hint of the mango and peaches. The alcohol overpowers it. Any suggestions as to what would be perfect for back sweetening? This one will definitely be sitting for a while me tinks. Lol.
> 
> View attachment 53966




Well I'm thinking that something like Welches 100% White Grape Peach juice to help bring down some of that alcohol and adding some sugar to get the desired sweetness you like. 

Will


----------



## Rice_Guy

Elmer said:


> Ok,
> Getting back into making some fruit wine.
> Leaving out the lemon as it makes it too acidic and in favorable among my circle of drinkers.
> However I am faced with the same issue which plagued and frustrated me when following the directions on this particular fruit wine.
> I cannot fit 12 lbs of fruit, 2lbs of sugar & 5 gallons of water into a 6 gallon bucket.
> How has everyone resolved this issue?


# fill with part of the water leaving some head space, intentionally run it hot (1.1 gravity or so) == with the first racking top off with some reserved water and with the second racking again top off with witheld water. If I wanted to be exact any unused water could go into bottling, , but I don’t bother.
When I have sugar calculations (lbs sugar plus sugar contributed by the fruit) I assume that at least 1/2 and up to 3/4 gallon water goes out with the lees.


----------



## Tinwakr

willie said:


> Well I'm thinking that something like Welches 100% White Grape Peach juice to help bring down some of that alcohol and adding some sugar to get the desired sweetness you like.
> 
> Will



I was contemplating Mango and Peach Torani syrup, anyone ever used it?


----------



## SteveR87

I just backsweetend my first batch of DB with Whitegrape Rasberry concentrate and it seemed to cloud up some. It was crystal clear before I added the concentrate. Can I add sparkloid again even though I added it last week before sweetening? SG was at .993 before sweetening and it had been down that low for about 2 weeks.


----------



## wildhair

Did you already add potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulphite before sweetening? If not, I would do that now. If you did - then I'd give it a week > month to settle out. It's likely just some solids from the juice.


----------



## SteveR87

Yeah I added that before and let it sit a week. It was crystal clear. I may have take gotten a little to close to the sediment when taking it out. I’ll let it sit for a while.


----------



## aabshire

Been reading and lurking about and have made 6 batches of DB and variations of mixed berry/fruit. I was just given 25 lbs of homegrown frozen blackberries by some friends! I have read through the thread and "picked out" the ones talking about blackberry versions. I have made blackberry wine before and used 4 lbs per gallon, which is what most recipes I have found call of) so I am thinking of using the DB version using all of 25 lb in a six gallon batch and 16 oz of lemon juice. Thoughts? (I know this can be a loaded question!! )


----------



## heyyou

Openebed our first bottle of DB yesterday afternoon. This is a keeper. What a perfect summer wine.


----------



## willie

SteveR87 said:


> I just backsweetend my first batch of DB with Whitegrape Rasberry concentrate and it seemed to cloud up some. It was crystal clear before I added the concentrate. Can I add sparkloid again even though I added it last week before sweetening? SG was at .993 before sweetening and it had been down that low for about 2 weeks.



After back sweetening we always wait 7-10 days and it should clear back up. 

Will


----------



## dangerdave

aabshire said:


> Been reading and lurking about and have made 6 batches of DB and variations of mixed berry/fruit. I was just given 25 lbs of homegrown frozen blackberries by some friends! I have read through the thread and "picked out" the ones talking about blackberry versions. I have made blackberry wine before and used 4 lbs per gallon, which is what most recipes I have found call of) so I am thinking of using the DB version using all of 25 lb in a six gallon batch and 16 oz of lemon juice. Thoughts? (I know this can be a loaded question!! )



I think your plan sounds perfect. Blackberry wine is one of my favorites.


----------



## aabshire

dangerdave said:


> I think your plan sounds perfect. Blackberry wine is one of my favorites.


Well, those black berries had a ton of juice! I was only able to add about 4 gallons of water to get to 6 gallon level! I added my 12 lbs of sugar (my normal for DDDB) and my starting SG is 1.114. I'll see what it is tomorrow when I pitch my yeast

PS Blackberry is my favorite and a fan favorite. I normally make it with the Vintner's Best Blackberry Fruit Base in a 5 gallon batch so I am really excited to see how this batch comes out.


----------



## Billie Rezarch

You guys! I made the original recipe in January and it turned out amazing (according to my husband and in-laws). I can't drink right now so I'm believing them. I started a tropical version right after because I'm "stocking up" while pregnant but its been sitting clearing for quite a while because the smell was making me super nauseous. I thought my original was clear, wrong! This one, having had more time to settle and clear, is incredible! I think it's been clearing for 6 weeks. What a difference a little (forced) patience makes! Now I need to just make a wine rack for my basement to hold all the bottles I'll be putting up in the next 6 months!


----------



## winemanden

I don't know how this would affect the taste. If you're going to back-sweeten, in theory you could syphon off some of your wine, boil it up to drive off the alcohol, then dissolve your sugar in it and add back to the carboy.
Just theory on my part, but it might work???


----------



## wildhair

I found it easier to just add frozen Berry Juice concentrate. Plus it adds body.


----------



## SteveR87

Thanks for everyone’s help on sweetening and clearing my first batch of DB. It’s back to crystal clear and smells amazing. We’ll let it sit for a while longer and then bottle it.


----------



## wildhair

I just racked and backsweetened my 6 gal. of DB. I added 4 cans of frozen Berry Blend conc., 2 cans of frozen White Grape conc. and 1 1/2 cups of simple syrup. I also added Brewers Best natural flavorings - 2 oz. each of Raspberry, Blackberry and Strawberry. Really perked up the flavor. My wife tasted it, smiled and asked how much I made.
The calcium carbonate additions and reducing the lemon juice in the must kept the acidity at 3.6 ph in the finished wine. Using 3# of fruit per gallon and a box of golden raisins also helped give it more body and flavor, I think. It's still crystal clear, but I'll wait a couple weeks and bottle it up.


----------



## Cellar Vader

wildhair said:


> I just racked and backsweetened my 6 gal. of DB. I added 4 cans of frozen Berry Blend conc., 2 cans of frozen White Grape conc. and 1 1/2 cups of simple syrup. I also added Brewers Best natural flavorings - 2 oz. each of Raspberry, Blackberry and Strawberry. Really perked up the flavor. My wife tasted it, smiled and asked how much I made.
> The calcium carbonate additions and reducing the lemon juice in the must kept the acidity at 3.6 ph in the finished wine. Using 3# of fruit per gallon and a box of golden raisins also helped give it more body and flavor, I think. It's still crystal clear, but I'll wait a couple weeks and bottle it up.


 Sounds like things are coming along nicely for you with this batch. I’ve taken your advice and have left my 2 batches to sit another week on the Sparkalloid to clear. I am planning to test my TA tomorrow, as I have purchased some .1N Sodium Hydroxide and will use that in conjunction with my pH meter to get a value. I will most likely be adding calcium carbonate to bring that into range, and have 12 cans of that Berry concentrate to play with. Can’t wait to see how this turns out.
Keep us posted on the progress of your batch, it sounds like it’ll be a total summer “patio pounder!”


----------



## beano

Blackberry Dragon Blood. Started yesterday. SG of 1.095. Can't wait.


----------



## Cellar Vader

beano said:


> Blackberry Dragon Blood. Started yesterday. SG of 1.095. Can't wait.View attachment 54195


Awesome idea! Have you made a BB Dragon Blood before? How many lbs of fruit did you use for this batch?


----------



## mhopkins

bkisel said:


> The DB recipe is very versatile. Besides making a bunch of different berry batches I've used the Db recipe, with minor tweaks, for making a peach wine (using 14 lbs of peaches) and an apple wine (6 gallons of freshly pressed cider. Apple wine is still bulk aging).



I want to make a DB Peach wine. Besides 14 lbs of peaches (Frozen sliced? Fresh?), what other tweaks did you make the the DB recipe? Thanks for the help! Mark


----------



## wildhair

Yes, I believe it turned out pretty nice. The changes I made to the original recipe worked out well for my tastes. And - it should be repeatable this time, which is always a good thing when you like the result.


----------



## beano

Cellar Vader, yes I have. Many times. I used 6 of pounds frozen blackberries, 1 pound Bananas and 1- 14oz can of whole berry cranberry sauce. This is a 5 gallon batch.



Cellar Vader said:


> Awesome idea! Have you made a BB Dragon Blood before? How many lbs of fruit did you use for this batch?


l


----------



## Cellar Vader

beano said:


> Cellar Vader, yes I have. Many times. I used 6 of pounds frozen blackberries, 1 pound Bananas and 1- 14oz can of whole berry cranberry sauce. This is a 5 gallon batch.
> 
> l


Great, thx! I’ve been thinking of doing a BB wine, so why not use the Dragon Blood template?!


----------



## porkchopmessiah

Elmer said:


> Ok,
> Getting back into making some fruit wine.
> Leaving out the lemon as it makes it too acidic and in favorable among my circle of drinkers.
> However I am faced with the same issue which plagued and frustrated me when following the directions on this particular fruit wine.
> I cannot fit 12 lbs of fruit, 2lbs of sugar & 5 gallons of water into a 6 gallon bucket.
> How has everyone resolved this issue?


bigger bucket....use brute garbage cans from HD they are nsf rated for food....


----------



## wildhair

I used 2 buckets for the initial ferment - mixed the liquid & dry ingredients in 1 bucket, then put 1/2 the fruit ^ 1/2 the liquid in each bucket. Also used a low foaming yeast - last batch I made in a 8 gal fermenter.


----------



## blossomfarm

wildhair said:


> I have not personally tried it - I have read where others have. It's sort of like an F-pac. If I were going to try this - I would probably heat up the jam & then liquefy it in a blender with a little water to make it easier to stir in. It may affect the clarity - you may have to give it additional time to clear. I'd be interested in hearing how it worked out.


I heat up the jam with hot water added some pectin let set overnight added to the base and so far so good.... it is still in my fast ferment, but taste is the bomb, going to rack again next week.


----------



## Elmer

After all these years I have finally determined why SWMBO does not like my version of triple berry wine.
She finds it too sweet and the use of white sugar gives a very sweet flavor.
I usually backsweeten with 3/4 cup per gallon.
Any ideas on alternates to sweetening?
Or has anyone had success with a more dry version?


----------



## Johnd

Elmer said:


> After all these years I have finally determined why SWMBO does not like my version of triple berry wine.
> She finds it too sweet and the use of white sugar gives a very sweet flavor.
> I usually backsweeten with 3/4 cup per gallon.
> Any ideas on alternates to sweetening?
> Or has anyone had success with a more dry version?



I normally don’t use even half that much sugar, and find its plenty to bring out the fruity flavors.


----------



## franc1969

scurry64 said:


> I haven't been able to find replacement lids yet. That doesn't mean they're not out there. The manufacturer told me they are 38mm lids.



I went searching for replacement lids for soda bottles- eventually found Cary Company. I wanted standard soda bottle lids for reusing spring water bottles for wine in single serve sizes. It's easier than capping beer bottles, but I am doing both. https://www.thecarycompany.com/containers/closures/plastic-caps/beverage 
Cary should have what you need, but it's just a minimum dollar order problem. They sell wine kits though, that's my solution. Also gallon jugs and wine bottles.


----------



## wildhair

Elmer said:


> After all these years I have finally determined why SWMBO does not like my version of triple berry wine.
> She finds it too sweet and the use of white sugar gives a very sweet flavor.
> I usually backsweeten with 3/4 cup per gallon.
> Any ideas on alternates to sweetening?
> Or has anyone had success with a more dry version?



Most berry wines need to be a little sweet to bring out the berry flavors. My wife prefers wine sweeter than I do - so I make sure she's involved in the final sweetening. 

This last batch (6 gal) I used 4 cans (12 oz ea) of Berry Blend concentrate frozen juice, 2 cans of Welches frozen White Grape juice concentrate (12 oz ea) and 1 1/2 cups of simple syrup. I also added 2 oz each natural flavor concentrate from Brewers Best - raspberry, blackberry & strawberry. She said it was "the bomb" - and gave it 2 thumbs up.


----------



## ThreeSheetsToTheWind

Good lord this stuff disappears fast!!!

Well over half my first batch is gone, and I want my second batch to sit in secondary for a while to degas thoroughly before bottling so I very well might run out before my next bottling...

So far everyone who has tried it loved it, can't decide whether that's good or bad lol.


----------



## Jal5

I gotta make another batch down to 3 bottles from last year!


----------



## Bhushan Thatte

Quite exciting recipe... Yesterday only I started with my first batch of 1 gallon. Waiting for the result.
Thanks a lot Dave for such wonderful recipe......


----------



## Elmer

wildhair said:


> Most berry wines need to be a little sweet to bring out the berry flavors. My wife prefers wine sweeter than I do - so I make sure she's involved in the final sweetening.
> 
> This last batch (6 gal) I used 4 cans (12 oz ea) of Berry Blend concentrate frozen juice, 2 cans of Welches frozen White Grape juice concentrate (12 oz ea) and 1 1/2 cups of simple syrup. I also added 2 oz each natural flavor concentrate from Brewers Best - raspberry, blackberry & strawberry. She said it was "the bomb" - and gave it 2 thumbs up.



That seems like a lot of concentrate.
However I would be curious how the berry blend concentrate performs in lieu of white table sugar


----------



## beano

Racked this BlackBerry over to secondary today @ sg of 0.998. Likely to finish out even lower. Added 2 cans of old orchard concord grape. It is still going strong. The 12 ounce taste test was fantastic. Very dry. Lips sticking to my gums.
I added untoasted white oak to the fermentation and it is very earthy tasting with a slight peppery flavor. Nice mouth feel. Love it like that!
Will update in a few days. 



beano said:


> Blackberry Dragon Blood. Started yesterday. SG of 1.095. Can't wait.View attachment 54195


----------



## wildhair

Elmer said:


> That seems like a lot of concentrate.
> However I would be curious how the berry blend concentrate performs in lieu of white table sugar


You'd have to test it for yourself, I suppose. Frozen concentrated juice is not as sweet as straight white sugar. I never add just sugar for backsweetening - I use simple syrup (2:1 ~ sugar & water) and the concentrate is far less sweet than that.


It's all a matter of personal taste - I just shared what worked for me & my wife.


----------



## Elmer

wildhair said:


> You'd have to test it for yourself, I suppose. Frozen concentrated juice is not as sweet as straight white sugar. I never add just sugar for backsweetening - I use simple syrup (2:1 ~ sugar & water) and the concentrate is far less sweet than that.
> 
> 
> It's all a matter of personal taste - I just shared what worked for me & my wife.



I think I am going to break them up into separate gallons.
This will give me a change to try 1 with 
berry blend concentrate.
1 with simple sugar.
Might even try oak in 1.

Figure 1 berry blend concentrate for 1 gallon?
And go from there


----------



## wildhair

Elmer said:


> I think I am going to break them up into separate gallons.
> This will give me a change to try 1 with
> berry blend concentrate.
> 1 with simple sugar.
> Might even try oak in 1.
> 
> Figure 1 berry blend concentrate for 1 gallon?
> And go from there


Good idea. 1 can of berry blend concentrate per gallon is about what it worked out to. I did try some with simple syrup in my last batch, and because I upped the fruit to 3# per gallon, it was pretty good. But my wife liked it better with the juice concentrate, so that's what I went with.


----------



## dangerdave

Elmer said:


> I think I am going to break them up into separate gallons.
> This will give me a change to try 1 with
> berry blend concentrate.
> 1 with simple sugar.
> Might even try oak in 1.
> 
> Figure 1 berry blend concentrate for 1 gallon?
> And go from there



I use oak in mine all the time, now, because I love what it does to my DB. I use untoasted oak powder, one third cup per six gallon batch—in the primary. Makes it taste like it just came out of a fresh barrel.


----------



## jumby

dangerdave said:


> I use oak in mine all the time, now, because I love what it does to my DB. I use untoasted oak powder, one third cup per six gallon batch—in the primary. Makes it taste like it just came out of a fresh barrel.



Dave, do you use American or French oak powder? Also where do you by it?


----------



## dangerdave

I order my American untoasted oak powder on line. We don’t have wine supply stores in our area.


----------



## RiderEh

I'm having a trouble with clearing. I followed the instructions, other than I used a 4 berry blend (4 lbs) and blueberries (2 lbs). It's been clearing for about 10 days now, and although there is quite a bit of dropout, it is still very foggy. The only thing I maybe didn't follow that well was I think the sparkalloid mix had cooled quite a bit by the time I pitched it in the carboy. 

Any advice? Should I add more sparkalloid or should I throw super kleer at it?


----------



## jumby

dangerdave said:


> I order my American untoasted oak powder on line. We don’t have wine supply stores in our area.


Can you message me the name of the online retailer? I can only find toasted oak powder online.


----------



## wildhair

RiderEh said:


> I'm having a trouble with clearing. I followed the instructions, other than I used a 4 berry blend (4 lbs) and blueberries (2 lbs). It's been clearing for about 10 days now, and although there is quite a bit of dropout, it is still very foggy. The only thing I maybe didn't follow that well was I think the sparkalloid mix had cooled quite a bit by the time I pitched it in the carboy.
> 
> Any advice? Should I add more sparkalloid or should I throw super kleer at it?


You have to boil the Sparkalloid for 5 minutes before adding it to the wine, and you should stir it into the wine as soon as it comes off the heat. If you did that - then you might want to wait a bit longer to see if it will clear. It took about 10 days for the Cucumber Wine I made to clear. 

If you let the Sparkalloid cool first - then I'd rack it off the sediment you have now and try the Super Kleer. Be sure to follow the instructions - you have to add 1 pack then wait a while before adding the 2nd pack.


----------



## jumby

RiderEh said:


> I'm having a trouble with clearing. I followed the instructions, other than I used a 4 berry blend (4 lbs) and blueberries (2 lbs). It's been clearing for about 10 days now, and although there is quite a bit of dropout, it is still very foggy. The only thing I maybe didn't follow that well was I think the sparkalloid mix had cooled quite a bit by the time I pitched it in the carboy.
> 
> Any advice? Should I add more sparkalloid or should I throw super kleer at it?


I gave up on Sparkoloid long ago. I use DualFine(SuperKleer) in all of my wines. You might want to dose it again with pectin enzyme. It could be pectic haze.


----------



## RiderEh

So what would the steps be, rack it, hit it with pectic or more sparkalloid, or should I rack and go super kleer? Sounds like either option may work.


----------



## jumby

RiderEh said:


> So what would the steps be, rack it, hit it with pectic or more sparkalloid, or should I rack and go super kleer? Sounds like either option may work.



Personally I would rack it, dose it again with pectic enzyme, then hit it with SuperKleer. All in 1 step.


----------



## loopline

wildhair said:


> You have to boil the Sparkalloid for 5 minutes before adding it to the wine, and you should stir it into the wine as soon as it comes off the heat. If you did that - then you might want to wait a bit longer to see if it will clear. It took about 10 days for the Cucumber Wine I made to clear.
> 
> If you let the Sparkalloid cool first - then I'd rack it off the sediment you have now and try the Super Kleer. Be sure to follow the instructions - you have to add 1 pack then wait a while before adding the 2nd pack.


Cucumber Wine, now that is interesting. Cucumbers don't have a whole lot of flavor to me, how did that turn out?

Did you just use cucumbers and peels or did you just them all and make it from the juice or ? Im mostly curious if it has any real flavor or if its more a cool refreshing wine over ice for the summer?


----------



## wildhair

This is the Dragon Blood thread, so - I will update & comment here on the Cucumber Wine - 

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/cucumber-wine.57360/
Red


----------



## scurry64

My Tropical Dragon's Blood is done fermenting and is now clearing in the secondary. If the flavor is as appealing as the color, I'll be extremely happy.


----------



## Jal5

Ihave a 3 G kumquat plus tropical fruit that looks just like that!


----------



## jumby

RiderEh said:


> So what would the steps be, rack it, hit it with pectic or more sparkalloid, or should I rack and go super kleer? Sounds like either option may work.


Did your wine clear?


----------



## David W Huey

Since looks good I know taste good when do you add your potassium sorbate! I have several batch sitting in the corner that I let extend until til the airlock stopped on its on! Now it taste like rubbing alocohol! So to preserve that good taste when do u or how do you stop your secondary fermentation maintaining that get flavor pattern and look!


----------



## sour_grapes

David W Huey said:


> Since looks good I know taste good when do you add your potassium sorbate! I have several batch sitting in the corner that I let extend until til the airlock stopped on its on! Now it taste like rubbing alocohol! So to preserve that good taste when do u or how do you stop your secondary fermentation maintaining that get flavor pattern and look!



It is very difficult for a home winemaker to stop an active fermentation. Your best bet is to let it ferment all the way to dry, then stabilize it by adding potassium sorbate and k-meta, then backsweeten to the desired degree of sweetness.


----------



## TyYoda

David W Huey said:


> Since looks good I know taste good when do you add your potassium sorbate! I have several batch sitting in the corner that I let extend until til the airlock stopped on its on! Now it taste like rubbing alocohol! So to preserve that good taste when do u or how do you stop your secondary fermentation maintaining that get flavor pattern and look!



One of my "Ah ha's" in good fruit wine making is what we often taste in the bottle is a result of adding back in some fruit flavor and sweetness through either a flavor pack (do a search on how to create) or by simply adding in some unfermented fruit juice or sugar after adding pot sorbate and k-meta to prevent the yeast from fermenting your additions. Completely dry fruit wines are unbalanced and not very fun to drink. Some sugar or a f-pak does wonders.


----------



## wildhair

I added several cans of Berry Blend frozen concentrate and a little bit of simple syrup to replace the lost flavor and add body. See my post - #4766 in this thread.
Berry based wines especially need to be backsweetened. I made a black raspberry that I planned to leave dry, except that it tasted like dirt, literally, when dry. Added some simple syrup and BAM - back came the black raspberry flavor.


----------



## Alibi Wines

I've only read 100ish of the 240 pages of this thread, and I'm already on my 4th and 5th batch of DB. ￼ Great recipe and thread everyone has contributed to.


----------



## dangerdave

Great advice, winemakers! You are all awesome!


----------



## Lori2626

TyYoda said:


> One of my "Ah ha's" in good fruit wine making is what we often taste in the bottle is a result of adding back in some fruit flavor and sweetness through either a flavor pack (do a search on how to create) or by simply adding in some unfermented fruit juice or sugar after adding pot sorbate and k-meta to prevent the yeast from fermenting your additions. Completely dry fruit wines are unbalanced and not very fun to drink. Some sugar or a f-pak does wonders.


I wish I had read this post 5 years ago, I have made several batches of dirt tasting wine. But even an old dog can learn, finally read enough of these and learned to make decent (and occasionally good) wine. Thanks


----------



## bear6230

oneHello all have not been on in a while.e Still makin DB as it is one of my favorites. This is my lasted one clearing pretty nice after only 3 days in carboy.
Also enclosed Is pic of my pumpkin wine I started in November with the leftover decoration pumpkins .
May call it Jacko Wine to give out for Halloween this year.
Name is in working progress.. Make it a Good Day my friends!!


----------



## G259

Ooo, I haven't tried that, it sounds like a good idea! Is there a recipe here that you are using for that pumpkin wine? I think I will have to try that sometime. My DB is still in the bulk stage, I know that it can be an 'early drinker', but I prefer to wait for it, It's about 6 months along now. I stuck pretty much to the recipe, but only used half the lemon juice, I thought it sounded high to me, and I was scared (lol)!


----------



## Elmer

Need to problem solve.
I want to compare back sweetening using a simple sugar and berry concentrate.
Unfortunately, no store in my area (market 32, target, wall mart, shop & save) carries this frozen concentrate.

What would be a good alternative?


----------



## Cellar Vader

Just a thought, but perhaps that “option” isn't available because it is a frozen item, and Walmart is interpreting your intent as an online order? Have you actually looked for it in-store? If you have, and they simply don’t carry it, that’s a bummer cuz that juice really improved the double-batch that I made.


----------



## wildhair

I get it at Piggly Wiggly, Walmart doesn't have it in store. Not sure what a good alternative might be, but I did find it on-line -
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Old-Orchard-100-Juice-Berry-Blend-Frozen-Concentrate-12-fl-oz/22257678

It definitely is an excellent way to backsweeten and flavor boost.


----------



## Elmer

Just confirmed with Old Orchard. No store in my area (or with in 50 miles of) carries the Mixed Berry.
Only alternative I could find would be Cranbberry/Blueberry. seems like the cranberry could be a bit harsh.
Otherwise all other frozen concentrate contains either apple or something citrusy (Orange/pineapple).

Thoughts?

I did backsweeten 1 gallon with a simple syrup, which SWMBO indicated she could smell and taste the sugar!


----------



## wildhair

Where do you live? And how much do you need? I'd buy some and ship it to you, if you want. 

What about white grape juice concentrate? Do they carry that? 

Another alternative - buy some natural flavor concentrates and use those along with some simple syrup. I've used Brewers Best to enhance the flavor of raspberry and strawberry wines - 
https://www.homebrewing.org/Natural-Blackberry-Flavoring_p_5489.html

OR - there's these - (FYI - I have NOT used this product)
https://www.brownwoodacres.com/fruit-juice-concentrates/


----------



## G259

My favorite thing to do is to look around, see what I have (or is available), and make something creative with it. I love to cook that way, why should wine-making be any different? Try a sample with it and see.


----------



## Elmer

wildhair said:


> Where do you live? And how much do you need? I'd buy some and ship it to you, if you want.
> 
> What about white grape juice concentrate? Do they carry that?
> 
> Another alternative - buy some natural flavor concentrates and use those along with some simple syrup. I've used Brewers Best to enhance the flavor of raspberry and strawberry wines -
> https://www.homebrewing.org/Natural-Blackberry-Flavoring_p_5489.html
> 
> OR - there's these - (FYI - I have NOT used this product)
> https://www.brownwoodacres.com/fruit-juice-concentrates/



Picked up some white grape/raspberry concentrate.
Will give it a try!


----------



## wildhair

That should work! Adapt, improvise and overcome.


----------



## Elmer

wildhair said:


> That should work! Adapt, improvise and overcome.



Indeed it did. Backsweetened between 1.005 and 1.007

Swmbo liked!!!!

Now I have to find a home for 1 gallon sweetened with a simple syrup


----------



## Elmer

wildhair said:


> Most berry wines need to be a little sweet to bring out the berry flavors. My wife prefers wine sweeter than I do - so I make sure she's involved in the final sweetening.
> 
> This last batch (6 gal) I used 4 cans (12 oz ea) of Berry Blend concentrate frozen juice, 2 cans of Welches frozen White Grape juice concentrate (12 oz ea) and 1 1/2 cups of simple syrup. I also added 2 oz each natural flavor concentrate from Brewers Best - raspberry, blackberry & strawberry. She said it was "the bomb" - and gave it 2 thumbs up.



Did you take a gravity reading after back sweeting?
If so, what was it?


----------



## wildhair

I don't take a sg reading after backsweetening anymore. I generally rely on my taste buds (and my wife's taste buds), tho it's not a bad idea. I found different wines need different levels of sweetening & I have to know about where she likes it. I do take PH reading before bottling.

I use 1 oz cups to test the amount of sweetening - I start with 1/8 t to 1 oz. If it's too sweet - I go to 1/8 t in 1.5 oz, then down to 1/8 t in 2 oz. Not sweet enough? I use 1/4 t : 1/8 oz - you get the idea. 1/8 t : 1 oz = 1/3 cup : 1 gal. That way i don't end up with a gallon of "too sweet" wine.

I'd bottle your sweet gallon and use it to backsweeten other berry wines. The Scot in me wouldn't allow me to waste perfectly good alcohol. ;-)


----------



## Elmer

Added 2 12 oz white grape concentrate to 3.5 gal.
There was a some weird white muck at the bottom of the concentrate, which ended up in my wine.
Any thoughts on what that is?
Now my wine is too sweet FG 1.012
How can I lower the sweetness?
Add a bottle of dry wine? What kind?

Do I make a gallon of fruit wine and add to smooth out?


----------



## wildhair

Not sure what the "muck" is, but I just added it to the wine and it dissolved and disappeared. I think it may caused by the freezing of the juice.
If it's too sweet - I'd let it sit in the carboy and blend it with a new batch of Dragon's Blood. A dry Rhubarb wine would also work, or a dry strawberry or cherry.


----------



## Cellar Vader

wildhair said:


> The Scot in me wouldn't allow me to waste perfectly good alcohol. ;-)



Unrelated to DB, but you mentioned something that made me smile. My father would always say "The Irish in me wants to drink the very best, but the Scott in me won't let me pay for it!" Thank you.


----------



## G259

'The settled bits'. I would add a little bottled water, swirl it around, and add it to my wine. I wouldn't discard it. Sugars, fruit bits, and water.


----------



## wildhair

G259 said:


> 'The settled bits'. I would add a little bottled water, swirl it around, and add it to my wine. I wouldn't discard it. Sugars, fruit bits, and water.


I did the same except I added some of the wine I was sweetening (instead of water) to clean out the cans.


----------



## PJ805

I'm thinking of trying out this recipe but I do not have pectic enzyme & tannin in hand. Has anyone eliminated either and how big of a difference did it make?

I'm also missing potassium sorbate but do have potassium metabisulfite, I'll only be making a 1 gallon batch so it probably won't last long, so I'm wondering if I can eliminate it as well.


----------



## Elmer

PJ805 said:


> I'm thinking of trying out this recipe but I do not have pectic enzyme & tannin in hand. Has anyone eliminated either and how big of a difference did it make?
> 
> I'm also missing potassium sorbate but do have potassium metabisulfite, I'll only be making a 1 gallon batch so it probably won't last long, so I'm wondering if I can eliminate it as well.



You need sorbate otherwise fermentation will start after you back sweeten


----------



## PJ805

Elmer said:


> You need sorbate otherwise fermentation will start after you back sweeten



I'm glad you mentioned sorbate, doing another check I stumbled upon some.

That leaves only pectic enzyme and tannin.


----------



## G259

My friend uses a tea bag for tannins.


----------



## G259

. . . and I think you would be ok without pectic too, but it may take longer to clear. In any case you could add it later if you get some, either of them.


----------



## PJ805

That's good to know, I'm actually wanting to use bentonite instead of sparkolloid, I saw a post from dangerdave with side by side batches with the two, but looks like it won't make a difference in time, so I'll just let it sit longer.


----------



## PodumSchmuck

Dose Potassium Metabisulfite kill Hepatitis A in wine?

Kroger Triple Berry Recall for Hepatitis A
https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019...-hepatitis-a-kroger-other-retailers-involved/


----------



## Cellar Vader

PodumSchmuck said:


> Dose Potassium Metabisulfite kill Hepatitis A in wine?
> 
> Kroger Triple Berry Recall for Hepatitis A
> https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2019...-hepatitis-a-kroger-other-retailers-involved/


Uh oh!


----------



## PodumSchmuck

Cellar Vader said:


> Uh oh!


Yup!
Makes a good case for boiling store bought frozen fruit before making wine from it.


----------



## Cellar Vader

PodumSchmuck said:


> Yup!
> Makes a good case for boiling store bought frozen fruit before making wine from it.


This is a good topic. Will boiling kill everything that could potentially pose a threat? I still have to research this, but it sure makes me think!


----------



## cmason1957

Generally cooking fruit before using it, leads to (oddly enough) a cooked taste for the final wine and isn't very pleasant. I did see that to kill the hepatitis A it takes 85 C (185 F) for at least one minute. 

I have read that no human pathogen can survive in the low PH, high alcohol environment of wine, but I would toss out anything I had made that might have been from the contaminated fruit.


----------



## Johnd

cmason1957 said:


> Generally cooking fruit before using it, leads to (oddly enough) a cooked taste for the final wine and isn't very pleasant..



Not to mention setting the pectin, resulting in the need for some pretty aggressive pectic enzyme treatments for clearing................


----------



## PodumSchmuck

cmason1957 said:


> I have read that no human pathogen can survive in the low PH, high alcohol environment of wine, but I would toss out anything I had made that might have been from the contaminated fruit.


Thanks!
I did some digging and found this downloadable pdf which confirms what you said.
https://www.bio-conferences.org/articles/bioconf/pdf/2016/02/bioconf-oiv2016_04003.pdf


----------



## Jal5

Pitched yeast on a new batch of DB today. Looks great and smells even better. 8 # of Costco triple berry fruit for 6 g must. 
Joe


----------



## David W Huey

Jal5 said:


> Pitched yeast on a new batch of DB today. Looks great and smells even better. 8 # of Costco triple berry fruit for 6 g must.
> Joe


Poured a 5gallon batch yesterday strawberry didn't realize how pure you can make batch ! Was able to save a couple bottles! DB best recipe every but got stick to the base of it!


----------



## David W Huey

David W Huey said:


> Poured a 5gallon batch yesterday strawberry didn't realize how pure you can make batch ! Was able to save a couple bottles! DB best recipe every but got stick to the base of it!


----------



## bigtex52

PodumSchmuck said:


> Thanks!
> I did some digging and found this downloadable pdf which confirms what you said.
> https://www.bio-conferences.org/articles/bioconf/pdf/2016/02/bioconf-oiv2016_04003.pdf


I read that according to the manufacturer the suspect fruit was sold only in CA and HI


----------



## Fencepost

I've started a batch of DD blackberry... I'm squeezing, and measuring and SG is dropping nicely (Started 1.082 down to 1.030). I would like to enhance the blackberry flavor with some juice I squeezed from blackberries (separately from the ones in the primary fermentation bucket). A few questions, how much to add? (pint? quart?) When to add? When transferring to the secondary? or on the 3 transfer? I am thinking it will make it a little cloudy, so it make take longer to clear. Any other concerns? Or add it when I am back sweetening? Thanks in advance for your guidance/recommendations.


----------



## G259

You started fairly low (1.082), so I would not be adverse to just adding it after fermentation is complete and you stabilize it. I tend to try for 1.100, that allows me a good buffer when I back-adjust the body of the wine.


----------



## Fencepost

Thanks.... the DD recipe calls for a target of 1.075, so I was trying to stay close the first time around... I actually wanted to go a little higher but was not sure about going all the way to 1.100. Sounds like it will still work. It's down to 1.014 this morning, so moving along... just to clarify, move it from primary to secondary, then add stabilizers (kmeta, sorbate), Juice, and then sparkaloid... let it clear, then rack again, let it sit, then bottle. Thanks.


----------



## dangerdave

Yes, Fencepost, that sounds like a great plan!


----------



## G259

Another thought on the initial SG: As this was initially meant to be an 'early drinker', the lower SG would mean a lower ABV. The alcohol content acts to preserve the wine over time, and I plan to let mine age at least a year. I'm seven months in right now, and plan to bottle soon, then I'll start another batch a little differently. Any thoughts Dave?


----------



## jumby

G259 said:


> Another thought on the initial SG: As this was initially meant to be an 'early drinker', the lower SG would mean a lower ABV. The alcohol content acts to preserve the wine over time, and I plan to let mine age at least a year. I'm seven months in right now, and plan to bottle soon, then I'll start another batch a little differently. Any thoughts Dave?



The way I see it, there is no real benefit to aging more then a few months. The flavor peaks after a few months. Once it's clear, bottle it, and enjoy!


----------



## dangerdave

Yes. What Jumby said. IMO, the flavor does not improve past the six month point. In fact, I prefer drinking it right away. No aging at all. I like mine nice and tart so that works for me. I make mine 18 gallons at a time so it lasts a few months. But you do you. Some like it dry, some sweet, some fresh, some aged. There’s enough for everyone!


----------



## Jal5

Update on the batch startedJune 14:
It’s been 48 hrs since I added Dualfine. Dropped sediment nicely but still not fully clear. I plan to rack tomorrow. Anything other than a little more time in bulk to fully clear? Joe


----------



## G259

OK then, I'll bottle soon, but was wondering about the sediment. I have racked off of the lees 3 times now. It looks pretty clear, I can see a bag of sugar through the 3 gal. Better Bottle (2' high x 1' square, or so). This is my first try at it, maybe I should stop being so anal about it, and just drink it (lol!)


----------



## G259

Mine is a 4 berry blend, adding strawberries. Hey, it was on sale when I got it, 'the 'G' loves sales on stuff he needs! Also, I was wondering if the addition of a little acid blend might brighten up the flavors? As I typed that I thought, just try it first!


----------



## Lwrightjs

Made my first dragons blood today. Any experience with how long this whole process takes before I get a good tasting beverage?


----------



## dangerdave

Started today? Well, I’ve produced a find drinkable batch in under two weeks, clear and bottled. I remember someone getting it under 10 days. Get it warm, get it dry, then get it clear and you are there!


----------



## Jal5

What do you think about clarity. Wait longer or add pectic? Already treated with dualfine and major sediment dropped out. 
Joe


----------



## Johnd

Jal5 said:


> View attachment 55293
> View attachment 55293
> View attachment 55294
> What do you think about clarity. Wait longer or add pectic? Already treated with dualfine and major sediment dropped out.
> Joe



I wouldn’t bottle that yet....it needs to be crystal clear, IMHO.


----------



## Jal5

I agree John. Do I wait it out and do racking as needed or add something?
Joe


----------



## Lwrightjs

Jal5 said:


> I agree John. Do I wait it out and do racking as needed or add something?
> Joe


I'd just wait it out. Give it another week. If it's still not clear, then you can look into what to add.


----------



## G259

. . . I guess my reticence is due to my want to have each procedure mapped out, so that my wine experiences the minimum of 'air' time. Perhaps I shouldn't be so protective, but it's out of an abundance of caution (you can't go back!).


----------



## G259

I forgot about the lemon juice (acid), so . . .


----------



## AstroQueen

So reading the instructions, the first part says to keep the lid on loose with no airlock. After adding the yeast it does not say to secure the lid and add an airlock, so I should still leave it loose with a towel on top?


----------



## G259

Yes, initially the yeast needs air to multiply, but you don't want anything to fall into your wine. As it gets going (2,3,4,5 days), you can then snap the lid down, and rely on the airlock. Sometimes you can go longer, as the CO2 that the ferment gives off will blanket, and protect the wine from the O2 in the air. You will see the fermentation die down, yes, this is the time to lock down the lid.


----------



## Johnd

AstroQueen said:


> So reading the instructions, the first part says to keep the lid on loose with no airlock. After adding the yeast it does not say to secure the lid and add an airlock, so I should still leave it loose with a towel on top?


 
Yes, you can cover your fermenting must loosely, loose lid, or towel, some use cheesecloth, your choice. 

No need to make any changes to your covering during AF, but close to the end (when your SG gets down to 1.010 or less) you’ll rack into a carboy, this is to leave fruit / lees behind, as well as to get your wine under airlock to complete AF. 

After this point, though initially your wine has plenty CO2 to protect it for a bit, you’ll want to be more vigilant. Once your wine SG is below .998 and is steady for 3 days straight, AF is over. Time to move on to next steps, which should include topping up to limit air exposure.


----------



## Jal5

Definitely clearer one week later. 
What do you think- bottling?
Joe


----------



## mhopkins

It is up to you how clear you want your wine. My practice is to never bottle cloudy wine so as to avoid the possibility of sediment developing (or simply bottling cloudy wine). And Dragon Blood is really pretty when it is crystal clear. Some say that if you can read a newspaper through the class, you are clear enough. Others counsel that you can test clarity by aiming a flashlight through the carboy. If you can see the beam; that’s suspended particles. Then again, this is Dragon Blood … it doesn’t last too long around our house.


----------



## Prosseco

HI,

Would like some advise from experienced DB ers.
Fermentation on my first ever DB is on 1.0010, its been going for 9 days. I could not find any lemon juice so i just sliced one lemon and one lime i had lying in the fridge and put in the straining bag with the other berries. Blueberry, strawberry, raspberry and blackberry mix.
I followed the instructions, squeezing the straining bag, stirring and so on, temp has been good all along.

I just had a taste today after stirring and it is very sour, like my mouth is "crumbling" type of sour, is this normal and will backsweetening sort that out?


----------



## dangerdave

DB is tart by design. Without back sweetening it will curl your tongue. Don’t fret; sugar will balance that out later.


----------



## Prosseco

Thanks Dave for the quick reply. Fermentation is almost finished. When i moved it to a secondary carboy to finish it off i took some good whifs and it smells great.
For the backsweetening, will it make any difference what sugar i use like cane sugar, caster sugar, brown organic sugar?


----------



## willie

We usually use organic sugar from our local amish store which is a very light brown color. It's not brown sugar that is used in baking. And we have also used regular cane sugar also. 4.5 - 5 cups of sugar to a 6 gal. batch is what we use. 

Will


----------



## Jal5

Dosed it with pectic enzyme 48 hrs ago. Did the trick! Time to sweeten and bottle by end of this week.


----------



## dangerdave

DB is not fancy so I do everything simple. Plain old table sugar stirred straight in.


----------



## mhopkins

@dangerdave I see "Dragon Blood Variant Contest" on your signature. My current fav is a 4-berry blend. But, I think it would be fun to branch out. Is there a page/thread with variant recipes? Thanks! Mark


----------



## beano

My favorite is blueberry/blackberry in any combination, with toasted white American oak in the primary. Done dry and back sweetened with grape juice concentrate. Tastes awesome. Makes me hiccup though. After a few glasses.


----------



## mhopkins

@beano Thanks for the tip ... I'll give it a try!


----------



## Jal5

Ended up with 28 bottles for this batch. Tastes very nice- off dry. Good berry flavor and a nice color. 
Only hitch in this one was the fluffy sediment at the end after that dose of pectic enzyme which made it tricky to siphon. 

Joe


----------



## G259

I bottled my 3 gal. batch today. I added 2 1/2 cups of sugar, that yielded an sg of 1.006 (it went dry at .990). I like mine a bit drier than that, next time will be 1 1/2 - 2, but it's drinkable. I will also double the fruit for more body, and not skimp on the lemon juice like I did, it needs it.


----------



## Prosseco

Thanks for that feedback reg backsweetening, il prob go 3 cups for my 5 1/2 G.
I just degassed yesterday, stabilized and poured in some finings. Most lees/sediment ended up in the bottom of the carboy but some floats at the top.
I never had that issue before, mind you its the first time i used anything but kits. Perhaps i did not degass enough.
Will it eventually sink to the bottom or is there a "trick" to it to make it sink?


----------



## G259

I'm going to say that it is gas, I've had that happen before. I just gently shook the top of the carboy and it started to fall.


----------



## mhopkins

Prosseco said:


> Thanks for that feedback reg backsweetening, il prob go 3 cups for my 5 1/2 G.
> I just degassed yesterday, stabilized and poured in some finings. Most lees/sediment ended up in the bottom of the carboy but some floats at the top.
> I never had that issue before, mind you its the first time i used anything but kits. Perhaps i did not degass enough.
> Will it eventually sink to the bottom or is there a "trick" to it to make it sink?
> 
> View attachment 55494


As for sugar, I am still experimenting. I have used 4C for a 6-gal batch and found it too sweet. Tried 3C and it was better IMHO. I have 2, 6-gal, 4-berry batches ready for backsweetening. Will go with 3C on one and 2C on the other. We shall see!

As for your floaties . . . what kind of finings did you use? For DB I use Kieselsol (and stir) and Chitosan (and stir). Some instructions say you can add the Chitosan immediately after Kieselsol. Other inst say wait a minimum of 1 hour prior to adding packet of Chitosan. Tried both and still had trouble clearing. Now, I find that waiting 12-24 hours between yields really excellent results. 

I hope @G259 is right and yours falls after a shake.


----------



## G259

I added 1 cup to the 3 gal. batch, and tried a little. It was OK, but I thought that it needed more. You can't go back, so a slow start is warranted!

'Gentle shake', then a bit more if nothing happens, you are not trying to 'rock the boat' however. One time I only had to tap the plastic carboy (Better Bottle).


----------



## G259

Something happened when I transferred back to the bucket for back-sweetening. I added sorbate and pot. meta to the bucket. When I racked into it, there were little white floaters for a while, probably a few millimeters thick. At first I thought that something very bad had happened, then I figured that it was the sorbate. Does it do that when it is old?


----------



## dangerdave

I’ve had sorbate float on me before. It was from kits when it happened. Leave it behind when you rack. Get some fresh and redoes? About all you can do.


----------



## G259

I think it eventually was incorporated into the wine, maybe a porosity change as it ages?


----------



## Prosseco

Thanks for the advise. I gave the carboy a couple of carefull shakes and the sediment fell to the bottom. mhopkins, i use a $1 fining from the local shop, as cheap as it gets. It does what its supposed to do i guess so i will keep on using it. Just backsweetened it to 1.0020 and bottled 29 bottles. It tastes really nice,2-3 months from now even better


----------



## DinoSorez

Made up a a batch of this yesterday, will be my first wine that I have ever made. I make beer quite often and weirdly wine seemed much easier. I followed recipe to the T and have a starting gravity of 1.075. I'm a big fan of cabernets, so this will be a weird change of pace but good learning curve, just hoping I'll like it. Was wondering if adding oak chips would be beneficial at all? Would I add to primary or the secondary?


----------



## dangerdave

I always use untoasted oak powder in my primary. I like mine oaky.


----------



## DinoSorez

If I haven't added to the primary yet, would it be okay to just add to the secondary?


----------



## G259

Eventful weekend! I went to back-sweeten and bottle my DB, and added too much sugar (you can't take it back!) My SG turned out at 1.006, and was way too sweet. I found a few bottles of Juicy Juice Berry wine that I had made months earlier, and I added it 1:1 (I still have some sweet DB left (7L). It was a little sweet, but very good, I even spoke out loud while sampling it that 'I would buy this!'

I don't want to take away from the DB thread, but more on the blending theme: At the same time I was bottling an apple juice (store bought)6 mo. old wine that I threw spices in like: cinnamon nutmeg allspice cardamom etc., just playing. I xfered to bucket and tasted. WOW, spice overload! So I found some bottles of a peach wine, that I was unimpressed with, as it was one dimensional, and I added them. What a difference! I gave one to my brother and said, this will pair well with baked pork, or pork and sauerkraut with some caraway seeds.

I have a 4L batch of a fruit medley that I just call 'Melange', I think I'll blend it with the sweet DB.


----------



## mhopkins

DinoSorez said:


> If I haven't added to the primary yet, would it be okay to just add to the secondary?



Yes, you can add oak chips to secondary.


----------



## bear6230

Hi all.
Haven't been able to get on in a while. But still making DB.
I added more sugar to this batch pretty sweet but very fuity!!!CH


----------



## DinoSorez

I racked it yesterday to a carboy and didn't have enough wine to fill it up to the tip, the neck is open to air and it's sitting at the top ridge on the carboy. Is this okay?


----------



## trolo

Has anyone made Cherry? do you need more than 6lbs for 6 gal?


----------



## willie

DinoSorez said:


> I racked it yesterday to a carboy and didn't have enough wine to fill it up to the tip, the neck is open to air and it's sitting at the top ridge on the carboy. Is this okay?


Without seeing a pic of the carboy I am thinking you should add some white zin. or Moscato but I have had my wine down from a inch or more from the neck and it was just fine. I want to say that time would play in here. Would rack soon after the wine is good and clear. Someone else may have a different opinion. Just going by my experience. 

Will


----------



## Steve Wargo

DinoSorez said:


> I racked it yesterday to a carboy and didn't have enough wine to fill it up to the tip, the neck is open to air and it's sitting at the top ridge on the carboy. Is this okay?


You can always add sanitized marbles or something to take up space in the carboy. Also, maybe place the carboy on the floor where temps are cooler. The top of the fridge might be too warm


----------



## G259

DinoSorez said:


> I racked it yesterday to a carboy and didn't have enough wine to fill it up to the tip, the neck is open to air and it's sitting at the top ridge on the carboy. Is this okay?



No, keep the airlock on it, air will spoil it over time.
(just making sure you at least have an airlock on!)

A little air under the airlock is not a problem, as CO2 from the fermentation will fill this gap, and protect your wine.

If the 'curl' of the neck is filled with wine, you are good to go.


----------



## Mountainjack

trolo said:


> Has anyone made Cherry? do you need more than 6lbs for 6 gal?


Back in 15 I did a cherry berry blend of fruits from Sam's. It consisted of Dark Sweet Cherries, Red Tart Cherries, Strawberries, and Blueberries. I used 6# of fruit and was very pleased with it. I need to make another batch if Sam's still carries that blend.


----------



## Lwrightjs

Would I have any issues if I didn't degas properly before bottling? Most of the gas was gone but would the rest disappate over time?


----------



## Johnd

Lwrightjs said:


> Would I have any issues if I didn't degas properly before bottling? Most of the gas was gone but would the rest disappate over time?



No, once it’s bottled, it can’t get out.


----------



## G259

When you open it, it may pop, or more than pop. I have had to clean wine off of my ceiling (and everywhere else), btw - I have 9' ceilings (and it wasn't a little)! One of those occurrences when time stops, and the only thing you can say is 'No Way!'


----------



## C Jones

New to the group. I just back sweetened my first batch today. It's a four berry. S.g. was 1.085 and finished at .990. Used 3/4 cup per gal and Sg was at about 1.005. Its hot going down and semi sweet. Leaving for 5 days.
I did six gallons and went to a one and five for final test..
This was fun. 
My next batch is going to be with blackberries I grew and maybe some blueberries.
Trying to decide on a blue ,black
Or just blackberry.
Any suggestions?


----------



## porkchopmessiah

Johnd said:


> No, once it’s bottled, it can’t get out.


On degassing, I recently bought a vac pump, having read that too much vaccum for too long adversely effects flavor, any guidelines on pressure and duration?


----------



## dangerdave

BlackBerry is one of my favorites. Did a batch a few years ago with 30lbs a friend gave me. Delicious!

As for degassing...I have never heard of “too much vacuum for too long effects flavor”. Just degas until it’s degassed.


----------



## Johnd

porkchopmessiah said:


> On degassing, I recently bought a vac pump, having read that too much vaccum for too long adversely effects flavor, any guidelines on pressure and duration?



When vacuum degassing, the initial release of CO2 is pretty substantial, very small bubbles that foam up a lot, and switching the pump on an off will help prevent sucking foam into the vacuum line if you don't have a lot of head space. My setup has an inline valve in the suction line that can be adjusted to allow air in, thereby decreasing the vacuum and the foaming. As the vacuuming progresses, and the amount of foaming subsides, slowly closing off the inline valve allows the vacuum to increase slightly. Once the inline valve is completely shut, and the vacuum nears 29 inHg, the bubbles typically become very large (as opposed to the little foamy bubbles). I'll let it run like that maybe 30 seconds or so, then shut it down. At that point, I call it done and have not had any CO2 issues when doing it that way, nor any loss of taste.


----------



## porkchopmessiah

porkchopmessiah said:


> On degassing, I recently bought a vac pump, having read that too much vaccum for too long adversely effects flavor, any guidelines on pressure and duration?


Fair enoug....bottled last night


----------



## DinoSorez

Thumbnail



__ DinoSorez
__ Aug 5, 2019










Bottled them yesterday, half of them are sweetend with a 1:1 simple syrup and 1/2 Tbsp of that syrup in each bottle and the rest aren't sweetened at all. I enjoy it alot, i like the tartness, but it's also not overly tart.

Hopefully you can all see the picture


----------



## dangerdave

That’s awesome Dino! Great job!


----------



## DinoSorez

Just made up another batch, except with just blueberries and its 20 lbs of fruit. The problem is that I forgot my yeast at work last night and won't be able to add the yeast until it has been sitting for 48 hours, is there anything that I should be doing to the must before adding the yeast, now that it has been such a long time?


----------



## willie

DinoSorez said:


> Just made up another batch, except with just blueberries and its 20 lbs of fruit. The problem is that I forgot my yeast at work last night and won't be able to add the yeast until it has been sitting for 48 hours, is there anything that I should be doing to the must before adding the yeast, now that it has been such a long time?



Your must should be fine till you can add your yeast. 

Will


----------



## detlion1643

My wife likes sweet wines while I prefer not so fruity and dry. So with all of my fruit wines, when done in primary (under 1.000), while racking to secondary I drop in sorbate and 5-6 cups of sugar. This normally gets the sugar levels to around 1.015. Way too much for me but my wife loves them that sweet. With DB, I've made a couple smaller batches around 1.005 and it came out great to my tastes. A couple ice cubes and chilled DB on a hot evening after yard work, yes please!


----------



## crushday

Has anyone accomplished an extended maceration by keeping the berries on the dragon’s blood must for 8-9 weeks? Unless I hear otherwise, that’s my plan right now. I’m going to start the wine this week.


----------



## gbrickey

I do extended maceration on premium red kits that include the grape skins - but even so only do a max of 4 weeks total including fermentation. When I made Dragon's blood I squished all the berries into a pulp on the first day, and continued to mash it every day during fermentation. By the end of fermentation there wasn't much left in the bag but seeds and maybe some blueberry skins. I would worry that 8-9 weeks with all those seeds would create too much of the bitter tannin that seeds have. My wine came out perfect - beautiful red color and very fruity.


----------



## crushday

gbrickey said:


> I do extended maceration on premium red kits that include the grape skins - but even so only do a max of 4 weeks total including fermentation. When I made Dragon's blood I squished all the berries into a pulp on the first day, and continued to mash it every day during fermentation. By the end of fermentation there wasn't much left in the bag but seeds and maybe some blueberry skins. I would worry that 8-9 weeks with all those seeds would create too much of the bitter tannin that seeds have. My wine came out perfect - beautiful red color and very fruity.


Very good. Voice of experience prevails on my first attempt. Subsequent attempts likely will be different and I’ll have a sample to compare.


----------



## crushday

Dragon’s Blood started 8/20/2019 with EC-1118, SG 1.099, 8 pounds of triple berries from Costco, Real Lemon Juice 60oz and 6.5 gallons of water (7.2 gallons of must gross), 30 cups of white granulated sugar constituted in water. Enzymes, nutrients, tannin and pectin according to Danger Dave’s recipe.


----------



## mhopkins

George Burgin said:


> Dragon’s Blood started 8/20/2019 with EC-1118, SG 1.099, 8 pounds of triple berries from Costco, Real Lemon Juice 60oz and 6.5 gallons of water (7.2 gallons of must gross), 30 cups of white granulated sugar constituted in water. Enzymes, nutrients, tannin and pectin according to Danger Dave’s recipe.



Fun!

I saw in a post that Danger Dave now adds oak to his Dragon Blood. So, I tossed in some oak powder left over from a kit I did a while back to a 4-berry blend of DB. Nice nose in the carboy. Am racking it this evening. Will likely rack one more time tomorrow before bottling. Hope it turns out well!


----------



## crushday

crushday said:


> Dragon’s Blood started 8/20/2019 with EC-1118, SG 1.099, 8 pounds of triple berries from Costco, Real Lemon Juice 60oz and 6.5 gallons of water (7.2 gallons of must gross), 30 cups of white granulated sugar constituted in water. Enzymes, nutrients, tannin and pectin according to Danger Dave’s recipe.



Update: SG down to .997, temp throughout has been in the low 70's - by design. Today I removed the skins, pressed them, put the pressed juice in the fermentor and put the lid back on. There's still quite a bit of activity going on in there. It smells like taffy. I hope that's not a representation of the final taste. I'll check it again in a couple of days.


----------



## mhopkins

crushday said:


> Update: SG down to .997, temp throughout has been in the low 70's - by design. Today I removed the skins, pressed them, put the pressed juice in the fermentor and put the lid back on. There's still quite a bit of activity going on in there. It smells like taffy. I hope that's not a representation of the final taste. I'll check it again in a couple of days.



"It smells like taffy." I've made seven of these so far (2, 3-berry blend, 4, 4-berry blend, 1, cranberry lime). Some smelled slightly funky (a technical term) toward the end of fermentation, but all have turned out wonderfully. Hoping your "taffy smell" is a temporary state along the journey.

BTW, I finished the last 4-berry blend that I added the oak powder to. I like the additional flavor profile and will likely be experimenting with oak in my various DBs going forward. An exception will be the cranberry lime - it is exceptional as is!

Best to you as you finish up your current DB batch. Please do post how things turn out.


----------



## SouthernVino

Just bottled 30 bottles of this recipe. Turned out wonderfully. If you haven’t made some of this, you really should. Simple but tastes great and looks beautiful when finished.


----------



## crushday

SouthernVino said:


> Just bottled 30 bottles of this recipe. Turned out wonderfully. If you haven’t made some of this, you really should. Simple but tastes great and looks beautiful when finished.
> View attachment 56228
> View attachment 56229


How much did you back sweeten?


----------



## SouthernVino

I used 2 3/4 cups of sugar for the six gallons. That is a little less than a 1/2 cup per gallon. I like it semi dry with just a hint of sweetness. As it ages, the sugar binds with the fruit and I get that beautiful blend. The fruit flavor emerges along with the fragrance, but is not highjack by too much sweetness.


----------



## crushday

SouthernVino said:


> I used 2 3/4 cups of sugar for the six gallons. That is a little less than a 1/2 cup per gallon. I like it semi dry with just a hint of sweetness. As it ages, the sugar binds with the fruit and I get that beautiful blend. The fruit flavor emerges along with the fragrance, but is not highjack by too much sweetness.


I can tolerate a semi sweet white wine but like my reds bone dry. I’ll do some bench trials and will consider 2 3/4 cups my absolute maximum. I don’t want to use sorbate but have no interest in making blood bombs either. How much sorbate do use?


----------



## SouthernVino

I like my reds dry as well. But this is a deep blush fruit wine. I guess you could categorize it as a light red perhaps. But I like this one with just a hint of sweetness. As for the potassium sorbate, I use 3 teaspoons per six gallons.


----------



## dangerdave

Great work everyone! Love the pics!


----------



## crushday

SouthernVino said:


> I used 2 3/4 cups of sugar for the six gallons. That is a little less than a 1/2 cup per gallon. I like it semi dry with just a hint of sweetness. As it ages, the sugar binds with the fruit and I get that beautiful blend. The fruit flavor emerges along with the fragrance, but is not highjack by too much sweetness.


Any idea what your finished gravity is after you back sweeten?


----------



## motherofgallons

My third batch of dragon blood, using berries and rhubarb I picked myself. It's just finishing up in primary, but if it's as good as the first two (original and blue/blackberry) then I'll be very happy.

Juice and pulp of 2 lemons
Juice and pulp of 10 limes
3x 850ml storebought organic lemonade (water, lemon juice, grape juice, sugar)
1x 50ml bottle of raspberry cordial concentrate (in Sweden we call this saft, available at Ikea in lingon and elderflower)
1x 50ml bottle of elderflower saft
561g rhubarb
1175g green gooseberries
1199g red currants
600g red gooseberries
200g peeled bananas (2)
150g blue Thompson raisins
2g powdered tannin
25g French medium toast chips
850ml homemade chai simple syrup
9.1l water
2920g sugar
2.7g Campden
25ml pectic enzyme
3.6g Fermaid K
2.3g DAP
7.7g Fermaid O
6.5g Go-Ferm
1 packet 71B
Slurry from a gooseberry wine with QA23
Slurry from a linden honey mead using M05

This was a very slow starter which is why I threw in the slurries about 3-4 days after pitching the 71B. A few days after that fermentation really took off, but I babied it and added nutrients at the 1/3 break. Plan to throw in some oak cubes in secondary.


----------



## motherofgallons

A shot of my version of black and blueblood. The picture doesn't do the color justice really. I like backsweetening with xylitol to save on carbs and calories as well as eliminating the need for sorbate, and there is no weird aftertaste at all, like stevia or other artificial sweeteners can have. I also added a bit of French heavy toast cubes to secondary, the oak is extremely subtle (and I love oak) so next time I do this version I will probably add a bit more, I think the toasty flavors will complement the dark fruit.

My second batch of dragon blood and I just adore it, it is now my house staple! With wine like this who cares about the 2-5 years my kit wines will be aging! I used 212 and extra fruit, I think I used a bit of a heavy hand on the backsweetening but with the luscious fruit flavor it works anyway. Amazing how brightly it comes through. The mouthfeel is silky and lush. I thought the first original batch was really good, but this one is better. Batch # 4 will probably be chocolate raspberry, with lots of cacao nibs.
I wanted to say thank you to dangerdave! You're an inspiration and it's so fun to have read through the thread and see how your own process evolved.


----------



## loopline

motherofgallons said:


> A shot of my version of black and blueblood. The picture doesn't do the color justice really. I like backsweetening with xylitol to save on carbs and calories as well as eliminating the need for sorbate, and there is no weird aftertaste at all, like stevia or other artificial sweeteners can have. I also added a bit of French heavy toast cubes to secondary, the oak is extremely subtle (and I love oak) so next time I do this version I will probably add a bit more, I think the toasty flavors will complement the dark fruit.
> 
> My second batch of dragon blood and I just adore it, it is now my house staple! With wine like this who cares about the 2-5 years my kit wines will be aging! I used 212 and extra fruit, I think I used a bit of a heavy hand on the backsweetening but with the luscious fruit flavor it works anyway. Amazing how brightly it comes through. The mouthfeel is silky and lush. I thought the first original batch was really good, but this one is better. Batch # 4 will probably be chocolate raspberry, with lots of cacao nibs.
> I wanted to say thank you to dangerdave! You're an inspiration and it's so fun to have read through the thread and see how your own process evolved.


Xylitol tastes minty to me. Does it add a mint undertone over time? 

I brew up stevia, just stevia leaves and hot water and it doesn't have the bad aftertaste like processed stevia, at least not to me. That said if you go heavy handed it does taste kind of off, but still not as bad as the processed stuff. 

What I acutally really like is a blend of Xylitol, Erythritol and Stevia. 

honestly though I pretty much just use Sugar now days. Im not saying its bad to save on carbs, but alcohol has a crap ton of carbs just because its alcohol. So I figure if Im going to screw things up by drinking alcohol in the first place, might as well toss in the sugar and make it taste ideal - as I think sugar tastes ideal over all the non sugar sweetners. That said my offset is that I take Life Extension Anti-Alcohol with HepatoProtection Complex every time I drink. It can be found on amazon and the difference in how I feel the next day is immense when I take it vs not. 

But Id still be interested to know if the xylitol makes it minty over time.


----------



## motherofgallons

loopline said:


> Xylitol tastes minty to me. Does it add a mint undertone over time?
> 
> I brew up stevia, just stevia leaves and hot water and it doesn't have the bad aftertaste like processed stevia, at least not to me. That said if you go heavy handed it does taste kind of off, but still not as bad as the processed stuff.
> 
> What I acutally really like is a blend of Xylitol, Erythritol and Stevia.
> 
> honestly though I pretty much just use Sugar now days. Im not saying its bad to save on carbs, but alcohol has a crap ton of carbs just because its alcohol. So I figure if Im going to screw things up by drinking alcohol in the first place, might as well toss in the sugar and make it taste ideal - as I think sugar tastes ideal over all the non sugar sweetners. That said my offset is that I take Life Extension Anti-Alcohol with HepatoProtection Complex every time I drink. It can be found on amazon and the difference in how I feel the next day is immense when I take it vs not.
> 
> But Id still be interested to know if the xylitol makes it minty over time.


I don't taste the mintiness you mention. Maybe it depends on the brand or maybe not everyone can taste it? I don't have any super old bottles with xylitol yet, but so far I've used it in wine and cider and I think it works great. I find erythritol has that sort of cooling flavor you mention. To me, regular sugar has an aftertaste about ten minutes after you eat it which I find really unpleasant, so I guess you just need to find what works for you. As sweeteners in general, not just for wine, I've tried erythritol, natural and processed stevia, as well as fiber syrups, but I've found xylitol to be the best (and it's also good for your teeth which is nice). It's also easy to measure out 1:1 like granulated sugar. The brand I use is called Total Sweet and they source it from Finnish birch trees.


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## motherofgallons

I just did a new 20L batch of black-and-blueblood which will land at about 11%. The older batch is something like 15%, which, while delicious, is too strong and therefore a bit dangerous.  I used the same recipe more or less, only with less sugar and a few tweaks due to fruit on sale. I used 212 again, rehydrated with Go Ferm. Will add French medium and heavy toast cubes to secondary.
I also made a 20L chocolate raspberry batch, using toasted kakao nibs and 50g of kakao husk tea. I pitched a slurry of QA23 left over from a batch of gooseberry wine. The scent of both chocolate and raspberry are intense, i have high hopes for this! I plan to add tonka beans (they have a lovely vanilla/almond flavor to complement the main flavors), oak, and perhaps more nibs/husks to secondary.


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## RadRob

I've searched the forum and google but could find an answer. What make's Dragon Blood an early drinker?


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## Lwrightjs

RadRob said:


> I've searched the forum and google but could find an answer. What make's Dragon Blood an early drinker?


Probably a few things.
It's not very tannic.
Not incredibly alcoholic (like 10-11% for most recipes I've seen).
Slightly sweet to cover any off flavors.
There's nothing overly complex that requires extended aging.

With most wines, higher alcohol, complexity, and tannin are all factors that play into its aging. Sweetness usually covers up some of those factors.

Hence, dragons blood is an easy early drinker.


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## bshef

I like bone dry reds and dry whites as well. Sweet wines are too much any more. Anyway I backsweeted one gallon of the original with a can of white grape juice concentrate. It is just enough for immediate consumption (Thanksgiving). I put the remaining five gallons on two pounds of the Costco triple blend for another month. I like more body. This is great for easy drinking, light wine.


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## willie

bshef said:


> I like bone dry reds and dry whites as well. Sweet wines are too much any more. Anyway I backsweeted one gallon of the original with a can of white grape juice concentrate. It is just enough for immediate consumption (Thanksgiving). I put the remaining five gallons on two pounds of the Costco triple blend for another month. I like more body. This is great for easy drinking, light wine.



This has been one of my more enjoyable hobbies. To be able to make a wine with different types of fruits and make it as sweet or dry as we want is really rewarding. Even my wife enjoys helping out. The peach wine we make from peaches from an orchard in Utica, Oh. has turned out fantastic. We just back sweetened our 2nd 6 gal. batch we have made this year. 
Enjoy your Thanksgiving wine.


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## Elmer

6 months of bulk aging and took a sip.
SWMBO felt it was tart.
There was a tannic feel to it with a noticeable back of jaw punch.

Any thoughts as to why?


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## dangerdave

It’s supposed to be tart. It’s triple berry lemon wine. And I like tannin myself.

I’m not sure what “back of jaw punch” means. Could you explain?

Is it original recipe or did you switch things up?


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## Elmer

dangerdave said:


> It’s supposed to be tart. It’s triple berry lemon wine. And I like tannin myself.
> 
> I’m not sure what “back of jaw punch” means. Could you explain?
> 
> Is it original recipe or did you switch things up?



I omit the lemon juice, mostly. I only put about 5-10 oz in (don’t have notes near me).
I also add about 1 oz of oak chips as it ages.

“Back of jaw punch” is that intense feeling in the jaw when you drink something.
I usually get it with red wine.
My untrained pallet assumes it is tannin.

I want to hand these bottles out for the holiday, but trying to determine if wine bad or just tart. I also assume that “bad” would be more vinegar taste.

I will rack again see what happens.


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## crushday

I tried my first bottle of DDDB tonight. I started it on August 20, 2019 according to DD’s recipe and bottled it on November 1st, 2019. Made to recipe adjusted for a 6.5 gallon batch. I used 8 pounds of Costco Triple Berries. Back sweetened with 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon. Tastes really good but a little too sweet for me.

Based on tonight’s tasting, I will make again but this time I’ll use only raspberries instead of the triple berry mix from Costco and only back-sweeten with 1/3 cup of sugar per gallon. 

Thanks Danger Dave...


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## bshef

I back sweetened one gallon with frozen white grape concentrate and no sugar. It was just right for me. I'm planning on back sweetening the rest with frozen berry blend concentrate. Just enough to take the edge off the tartness. I also cut the lemon juice in half at the start. I interpret the back of jaw punch as tartness. A hint of back sweeten is the key. Never overdo; you can always add simple syrup if a bottle is not sweet enough. Too sweet and you have to find something super dry for a blend or make more and blend.


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## Alibi Wines

trolo said:


> Has anyone made Cherry? do you need more than 6lbs for 6 gal?


I make a cherry. 3 pounds tart, 3 pounds sweet. Backsweeten with 3 cups sugar, and sometimes for a real crowd pleaser, I'll add 6 oz. Brewers best natural chocolate People love it.


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## patrikthehun

Thank you Dave for a great recipe. I made a batch in Hungary and it turned out great. I'll try an apricot style this summer.
Great thread btw, read the whole thing, very good read and nice people.


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## G259

Apricot, I lost 1/3 to 1/2 of my volume to the solids that dropped out. Plan for that and have smaller vessles to to rack into. Search 'apricot' on this site.


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## Jeremiah

First batch clearing nicely! Unintentionally a quad berry. I bought my Triple Berry Blend from 2 different stores and they didn't contain the same blend. I had to say WOAH to my non-wine drinking friend who performed the taste test - she chugged the whole cup and loved it.


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## willie

Jeremiah said:


> View attachment 58626
> 
> 
> First batch clearing nicely! Unintentionally a quad berry. I bought my Triple Berry Blend from 2 different stores and they didn't contain the same blend. I had to say WOAH to my non-wine drinking friend who performed the taste test - she chugged the whole cup and loved it.


 
Yep that's good ole Dragon Blood. It has a strange effect on the non wine drinkers. Lol

Will


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## steve.m.molk

Why only 1 pound per gallon of fruit it's usually 3-4 pounds per gallon?


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## Johnd

steve.m.molk said:


> Why only 1 pound per gallon of fruit it's usually 3-4 pounds per gallon?



Use whatever # per gallon suits your fancy. I don’t like adding water to the fruit at all, and make mine with no water added.


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## Jeremiah

All bottled! Thanks for this thread.


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## RocketBee

I just started my first batch of DD-DB today. A productive day of work around the house...finished off a long-term project and a few odds and ends too. The day was capped off by putting all of the elements together, S.G. 1.075 before fruit was added. Everything is covered, but not sealed, yeast gets added tomorrow afternoon. I found organic triple berry mix at Sam's for $8.98/3 lb. bag. Not bad! Going to follow the recipe as closely as possible. Excited!


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## Lwrightjs

Just pitched yeast on another dragons blood. It's like.. 5 or 6..or 7 gallons and the OG is... Like 1.070 to 1080? The only downfall of drinking wine while making wine is that you sometimes end up with a different product than you expected. [emoji23]


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## Jared Durham

We are on our 4th batch. We normally do 2 6 gallon buckets at a time. Just finished fermenting 4 x 6 gallon batches. This is amazing stuff. Everyone wants some and we enjoy drinking it. So easy, you know exactly what you are getting. I hate wine, this is delicious!


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## RocketBee

About six days after yeast pitch on my first batch of Dragon's Blood and I'm starting to notice a slight rotten egg smell which I assume is a SO2 due to stressed yeast. Is there anything I should do in addition to the steps laid out in the directions? Add more nutrient?

Current S.G. is 1.010...still dropping over time, but the curve is naturally not as steep as earlier in the week. The temperature -- after the initial spike at 36 hours post yeast-pitch when it climbed to 77F -- has slowly dropped. I've been trying to manage it to be at or just below 70F and have been within 1 degree of 70F over the past two days. I've followed the directions closely except I've been pressing the fruit and stirring twice daily, roughly every 12 hours.


----------



## Johnd

RocketBee said:


> About six days after yeast pitch on my first batch of Dragon's Blood and I'm starting to notice a slight rotten egg smell which I assume is a SO2 due to stressed yeast. Is there anything I should do in addition to the steps laid out in the directions? Add more nutrient?
> 
> Current S.G. is 1.010...still dropping over time, but the curve is naturally not as steep as earlier in the week. The temperature -- after the initial spike at 36 hours post yeast-pitch when it climbed to 77F -- has slowly dropped. I've been trying to manage it to be at or just below 70F and have been within 1 degree of 70F over the past two days. I've followed the directions closely except I've been pressing the fruit and stirring twice daily, roughly every 12 hours.



Sounds like a well orchestrated fermentation. The only nutrients that you should use at this point in time are organic, like Fermaid O, and you should use a small dose to get over the finish line. Keep in mind, that if you stick your nose down into the fermentation, it’s not uncommon to detect a slight sulfur odor, but a shot of “O” for insurance is what I would do if it were mine. In these cases, a little prevention really can save you a lot of hassle down the road.


----------



## willie

RocketBee said:


> About six days after yeast pitch on my first batch of Dragon's Blood and I'm starting to notice a slight rotten egg smell which I assume is a SO2 due to stressed yeast. Is there anything I should do in addition to the steps laid out in the directions? Add more nutrient?
> 
> Current S.G. is 1.010...still dropping over time, but the curve is naturally not as steep as earlier in the week. The temperature -- after the initial spike at 36 hours post yeast-pitch when it climbed to 77F -- has slowly dropped. I've been trying to manage it to be at or just below 70F and have been within 1 degree of 70F over the past two days. I've followed the directions closely except I've been pressing the fruit and stirring twice daily, roughly every 12 hours.



Sounds like your ferment is going just fine. You don't have to add any extra chems. If you followed Dave's recipe it's pretty much full proof. What you smell is pretty normal. It will go away when your ferment is finished. 

Will


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## fsa46

Has anyone tried any of the Vintners fruit wine bases for DB recipe ? I've used it for making wine with excellent results and would think that it would really compliment the lemon in Dragon Blood.


----------



## willie

fsa46 said:


> Has anyone tried any of the Vintners fruit wine bases for DB recipe ? I've used for making wine with excellent results and would think that it would really compliment the lemon in Dragon Blood.




Yes we have used it in making peach, raspberry and blueberry variations. We add to the ferment along with the bag full of fruit we are using. It's been working out really well. 

Will


----------



## RocketBee

I like pictures, so I put together a graph plotting the temp and the S.G. of my first batch of Dragon's Blood during primary fermentation. My only deviation from DD's instructions was that I stirred 2x each day. Right now, S.G. is less than 1.00 and I'm waiting for it to stop dropping. My original intent was to ferment at a lower temp using the EC-1118 yeast to achieve a wine that was more fruity and smooth (as per instructions). I don't have a heater band because I thought I could manage the temperature with a space heater in my laundry room. As you can see from the red area on the graph, the temp was a bit manic over the last four days and not what I was trying to achieve. I think the heater band will be my next acquisition.

Anyway the plotted points are roughly every twelve hours and I would love to hear any feedback or comments from the experienced folks, especially regarding fermentation temperature. Thanks!


----------



## GoOutside&Play

Wrapped up my first batch of DB today and bottled. The color is gorgeous and the aromas are definately what I was expecting. I have never tried a wine this early but it is really tart and not at all sweet. I used 1/3 cup of sugar for each gallon. Will this sweeten up in the bottle a decent amount?


----------



## willie

GoOutside&Play said:


> Wrapped up my first batch of DB today and bottled. The color is gorgeous and the aromas are definately what I was expecting. I have never tried a wine this early but it is really tart and not at all sweet. I used 1/3 cup of sugar for each gallon. Will this sweeten up in the bottle a decent amount?




We all understand everyone's taste is different. So I believe Dave recommended 2-6 cups of sugar to a 6 gallon batch. He also stated he used 3/4 cup per gallon which I believe comes out to 4.5 cups per 6 gallon batch. We add 4.5 - 5 cups to every batch because it is the taste we prefer. Sense you bottled let it age for a month or 2 if you can and then add sugar or your favorite sweetener to your glass before drinking to bring the sweetness up to what you like. Letting the wine age some more will help with that tartness. Fruit wine taste much better to most people after back sweetening then drinking it dry. Enjoy.

Will


----------



## fsa46

I for one wish people would refer to the sweetness after back-sweetening by Specific Gravity. It's a lot more precise as everyone's taste is different. What some may refer to as sweet, others may not. JMHO

As I've stated in other posts, most of my wine, Skeeter Pee and Dragon Blood are back sweetened from 1.01 to 1.02 and marked on the bottles. Limoncello and Orangecello are back sweetened between 1.06 and 1.08, yes, that sweet. lol


----------



## GoOutside&Play

willie said:


> We all understand everyone's taste is different. So I believe Dave recommended 2-6 cups of sugar to a 6 gallon batch. He also stated he used 3/4 cup per gallon which I believe comes out to 4.5 cups per 6 gallon batch. We add 4.5 - 5 cups to every batch because it is the taste we prefer. Sense you bottled let it age for a month or 2 if you can and then add sugar or your favorite sweetener to your glass before drinking to bring the sweetness up to what you like. Letting the wine age some more will help with that tartness. Fruit wine taste much better to most people after back sweetening then drinking it dry. Enjoy.
> 
> Will


I went with the 1/2 cup/per gallon based on what I was hoping was similar tastes based on feedback from this thread. I am a very dry to extra dry drinker but was hoping for something a little more sweet for summer drinking. This is really tart and dry so far. I will just set it aside for a couple of months and see where i am around then. I am not really up to adding sugar in a glass or sweetener (never really cared for that when i have tried others) so if it isn't decent in a few months i will probably just give them away to neighbors and try again.


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## RocketBee

@GoOutside&Play ... I'm curious about your fermentation temperature. I'm certainly no expert, but I do remember in the instructions that a higher fermentation will make the taste a lot sharper whereas a lower temp will make it a bit more smooth. I tried to keep mine around 70F or lower to keep things on the smooth side.


----------



## GoOutside&Play

RocketBee said:


> @GoOutside&Play ... I'm curious about your fermentation temperature. I'm certainly no expert, but I do remember in the instructions that a higher fermentation will make the taste a lot sharper whereas a lower temp will make it a bit more smooth. I tried to keep mine around 70F or lower to keep things on the smooth side.



7 days from start to dry. Temp ranged from 74 to 78 but got to 82.7 for 1 day then back down to 78ish for last two days. House temp was about 68 so the yeast was rocking pretty hard I would say.


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## RocketBee

I did my first racking out of the primary just yesterday, mine was obviously slower than yours. I took a taste and was quite surprised as it wasn't nearly as tart as I expected. "Tartness" is a subjective term, but still I was expecting a much larger lip-puckering factor than I got. I followed the directions pretty closely...and to the "T" as far as ingredients. I wonder if the fermentation temp can make that large of a difference in tartness.


----------



## GoOutside&Play

RocketBee said:


> I did my first racking out of the primary just yesterday, mine was obviously slower than yours. I took a taste and was quite surprised as it wasn't nearly as tart as I expected. "Tartness" is a subjective term, but still I was expecting a much larger lip-puckering factor than I got. I followed the directions pretty closely...and to the "T" as far as ingredients. I wonder if the fermentation temp can make that large of a difference in tartness.



Interested to hear how yours turns out in a couple of months. I followed process and directions to a T as well except for backsweetening ( slightly less than 3/4 cup per gallon) and temp which did what it did. Since i Iove science and experiments I am interested to see how it turns out month after month and I know I will do at least 3 more batches so plenty of time to see what variables i can play with.


----------



## jking

cmason1957 said:


> I use the KLR filter system, simple gravity fed. https://klrfilter.com/
> 
> Very simple, fairly inexpensive, adds maybe 4 or 5 minutes to the gravity racking time. Has been reviewed and evaluated by Daniel Pambianchi (considered by many to be seated at the right hand of god) http://www.techniquesinhomewinemaking.com/home winemaking product reviews.html



After reading this post and doing a little research I decided to buy a KLR filter. The parts arrived about a week after I ordered and I set out to filter a batch of blueberry ready to bottle. Due to manufacturing defect where the jar's lip that seals on the gasket in the lid, it leaked a lot when running sulfilte solution through it to sanitize no matter how tight I had it. I sent pictures in an email to KLR and after a little back and forth they sent me a new filter body that doesn't leak like the first. Good customer service.


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## RocketBee

I back-sweetened my DDDB wine yesterday and peeled a little off to do a tasting. I guess the best way to describe it would be that I am disappointed. Now, please understand that I mean absolutely no disrespect to Danger Dave and all who've contributed to this thread...not at all. Putting things into perspective, the cost of producing this batch was very little, so perhaps I'm expecting too much...or perhaps I did something wrong? I followed the instructions closely, tried to keep the fermentation temp at the lower end of the scale, nailed the ingredients exactly according to the instructions and back-sweetened with 4 cups of sugar (2/3 cup per gallon). Specifically, I was expecting a bit more tartness, fruitiness and also more body. I think it tastes a bit "thin". All of these descriptors are subjective terms so it's hard to convey...I guess after reading all the positive comments on this thread my expectations may have been unrealistically high. 

That being said, it seems to me in retrospect that DDDB is a personal journey for all of us. Try it, refine it, and over time dial it in to what it is that one prefers. I now have a baseline of what it's like, next round I can modify to make it more suitable to my personal taste. Regardless, I would love to hear from more experienced folks regarding my comments and/or what I should do on my next round. Thanks!


----------



## willie

RocketBee said:


> I back-sweetened my DDDB wine yesterday and peeled a little off to do a tasting. I guess the best way to describe it would be that I am disappointed. Now, please understand that I mean absolutely no disrespect to Danger Dave and all who've contributed to this thread...not at all. Putting things into perspective, the cost of producing this batch was very little, so perhaps I'm expecting too much...or perhaps I did something wrong? I followed the instructions closely, tried to keep the fermentation temp at the lower end of the scale, nailed the ingredients exactly according to the instructions and back-sweetened with 4 cups of sugar (2/3 cup per gallon). Specifically, I was expecting a bit more tartness, fruitiness and also more body. I think it tastes a bit "thin". All of these descriptors are subjective terms so it's hard to convey...I guess after reading all the positive comments on this thread my expectations may have been unrealistically high.
> 
> That being said, it seems to me in retrospect that DDDB is a personal journey for all of us. Try it, refine it, and over time dial it in to what it is that one prefers. I now have a baseline of what it's like, next round I can modify to make it more suitable to my personal taste. Regardless, I would love to hear from more experienced folks regarding my comments and/or what I should do on my next round. Thanks!




Your comments are perfectly normal. Just before and after bottling DB is what some call green at this point. Drinkable yes but needs 2-3 months of aging to help bring out a little sweeter and fruitier taste. I have used a few ripe bananas to help with the body. A couple times a year we use 9 lbs. of fruit and others use 12 lbs. to add a more robust taste. I've read one person that likes to use grape jelly or jam to add more flavor. Also you might try upping your ferment temps. We like to keep ours no lower than 75 and will let it get up into the low 80's for a day or two. Good luck.

Will


----------



## RocketBee

@willie ripe bananas during primary fermentation or later? Have you ever used a yeast other than EC-1118? I was thinking about trying 71B next time. I realize that means I'll have to carefully consider among other things: fermentation temp, rehydration technique as well as proper nutrient protocol.


----------



## willie

RocketBee said:


> @willie ripe bananas during primary fermentation or later? Have you ever used a yeast other than EC-1118? I was thinking about trying 71B next time. I realize that means I'll have to carefully consider among other things: fermentation temp, rehydration technique as well as proper nutrient protocol.




I just peel the bananas and add to the ferment bag. The only other yeast we use because it works so well is Red Star Premier Curvee' but if you want to try 71B by all means try it. This is a great recipe to experiment with. But we always keep in mind that Dave's recipe is pretty much full proof. We have tried all kinds of different fruit and combinations but always go back to Dave's Triple Berry using Wyman's brand. It's our favorite. 

Will


----------



## Johnd

RocketBee said:


> @willie ripe bananas during primary fermentation or later? Have you ever used a yeast other than EC-1118? I was thinking about trying 71B next time. I realize that means I'll have to carefully consider among other things: fermentation temp, rehydration technique as well as proper nutrient protocol.



You might also consider keeping an eye on the pH, as 71B will also metabolize some of the malic acid in the must. Can't imagine that it would be a big issue, but just something to consider.


----------



## dangerdave

DB wine makers are some of the most creative and ambitious I’ve seen. The possibilities are endless. Great work, and good advice, everyone!


----------



## abrewkat

I've done a couple batches of Tropical (pineapple juice plus lemon, mango, strawberry, a tropical fruit blend, and some simmered bananas). One batch with 71B-1122 and one with Premier Cuvee. Both turned out really well and were only about 6-7 lbs of fruit and 2 quarts of pineapple juice and a quart of lemon juice. Probably my best received wine when shared with others. Thinking I'm going to have to try the original version next!


----------



## G259

I'm with you on doubling the fruit used, and adding more tannins. However, everyone like a different 'balance', I like mine bold and heavy, others may like a lighter version. Nothing is absolute in winemaking (in my view)!


----------



## G259

. . . and I think 71B is a good choice, that I plan to use on my next batch.


----------



## RocketBee

We bottled our DB yesterday and, of course, we had a short bottle. My wife and daughters and I tasted the short bottle. Daughters had lots of good things to say, said it might be a little sweet, but my lovely bride used the two most dreaded words: "cough syrup".

As for me, over the short time that has passed after back-sweetening till yesterday, the flavor has improved. The fruitiness has come forward and it seems more tart than before. I can taste the distinct flavors of the lemon, sugar and the fruit. I'm guessing that time will help blend the flavors. @willie you were right...you said two to three months, but the flavor has already improved in just a week.


----------



## M38A1

Fastest DB ferment ever?

I mixed up a double batch of DB and decided to go big with 25lbs of frozen peaches. Mixed everything per instructions but doubled and then a gob more fruit, well..... just because I was curious. I hydrated TWO EC-1118's and put them on top, stirred every evening after removing/pressing the fruit bag. It went like this:

3/16 - Pitch yeast noonish (1.072 starting SG)
3/17 - Stir/76*F
3/18 - Stir/84*F
3/19 - Stir/81*F
3/20 - Measure SG at .990 and 75*F

I've made a bunch of this before but this was super fast by about three days compared to other batches. Was it due to a double yeast addition? I can say that this batch was rolling and noticeably warmer in temp increase. I hadn't planned on it being done so quickly, but when I looked on 3/20 to measure, it was dead/not rolling and .990. So I measured again and it was .990.

Is there benefit/drawback to a fast ferment? I was kind of thinking the slower the ferment time the more opportunity for flavors to present forward.


----------



## ljewels4u

Tnuscan said:


> Sure sounds interesting, keep us posted !!!



Yes - curious how it turns out I just started a pineapple wine and used coconut water - cuz I had some I wanted to use up - curious how if it will come through at all? - can't quite tell when you posted originally but - how did it turn out??? cheers


----------



## ljewels4u

jumby said:


> I make a peach, mango, pineapple variant all the time and use 9-10 lbs of fruit. It's by far the most popular fruit wine I make.


this combo will be my next batch YUM- I have separate 5g batches going of: pineapple and mango and peach but a blend of all 3 is coming soon! (wonder how it will change if I use peaches from my tree - pitted and frozen, mango from "mango nectar" and Pineapple from dole can pineapple - it's what I have - I'll make a note for myself re the 10lb mark - thanks


----------



## RocketBee

I gave a bottle of my first DB batch to my next-door neighbor. He gave me some feedback that I thought strange. There was some taste feedback which I had requested he provide, but he also said he got really buzzed and that it had a very high alcohol content -- this disturbed me as I figured that it was around 11.5%. So "secondary fermentation" is where my emotions led me. I calmed down after reminding myself that I had followed the instructions very closely and I stabilized properly. But, being a new-be wine maker, I decided to let science tell me whether my brush with panic had any basis in fact. I wanted to make certain that I didn't have any "overpressurization events" waiting for me in my basement.

In short, there was no reason for panic and I've come to the conclusion that my neighbor...he's a lightweight. I cracked open a bottle from my basement and measured the S.G. It read 1.007, which was slightly higher than what I recorded after I back-sweetened (1.006). I tasted, didn't seem to me to be overly alcoholic either, so I think I'm safe. Now I guess we'll have to drink that bottle tonight darn it!

One thing I did notice after I put the reading glasses on was very minute-sized bubbles surfacing in the test jar and also, I noticed a tiny ring of foam forming around the inside circumference of the bottle at the surface of the wine. I don't think that's a problem, but wanted to make certain. I've read very little and don't know much about making sparkling wines, but I'm guessing that's what's happening albeit on a very small scale.

I would love to hear what the experts think. Thanks!


----------



## sour_grapes

RocketBee said:


> I gave a bottle of my first DB batch to my next-door neighbor. He gave me some feedback that I thought strange. There was some taste feedback which I had requested he provide, but he also said he got really buzzed and that it had a very high alcohol content -- this disturbed me as I figured that it was around 11.5%.


----------



## crushday

Started my second batch of DDDB today with a few tweaks... Essentially, I doubled the berries and will only back sweeten with 1/4 cup of sugar (to taste) per gallon instead of the 1/2 cup per gallon in my first edition.

Here’s my notes so far:

Danger Dave’s Dragon Blood, started 4/24/2020 with 64oz of lemon juice concentrate (Kroger), 16 pounds of triple berry from Fred Meyer, 24 cups of sugar, 3 tsp of tannin, 1 tsp pectin, 1 tsp of yeast energizer, mixed all together in a 5 gallon brew pot while thawing and cold soaking. Tomorrow I’ll add water to mix 7 gallons of must so the finished volume will be approximately 6 gallons and pitch yeast EC-1118 when up to correct temp.


----------



## RocketBee

@crushday thanks for your notes and comments. 16 lbs! That's a lot of berries! My daughters and friends are burning through my first batch of DDDB pretty quick. I'm getting feedback that they really like it, but too sweet. As for me, I can still taste the table sugar...was hoping that it would blend in better with the other ingredients by now. I did 2/3 cups per gallon. My next batch likely I will also add more fruit, back-sweeten at 1/2 cup/gallon (maybe less) and was also thinking about using 71B instead of EC-1118.


----------



## crushday

@RocketBee - I’m not a fan of sweet wine so for my first batch I varied from DD and only back sweetened 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon. But, it was too sweet for me. My business partner’s wife love it, however. I’m looking for a fruitier, less sweet rendition which is the reason for the 16 pounds of berries and back sweetener plan. Of course, all will be to taste.

As far as yeast, I have EC-1118 and D-47 on hand. Have you tried D-47?


----------



## RocketBee

crushday said:


> As far as yeast, I have EC-1118 and D-47 on hand. Have you tried D-47?


I have used D-47 on my first few attempts at mead which tastes like crap. I've learned since then that D-47 is temperature-sensitive (at least in mead where the must is a nutrient "desert"). So I'm thinking that if I was to use that, I would need to keep it nice and cool. What are your thoughts about changing up the yeast in DDDB?


----------



## crushday

My only experience with D-47 has been with Chardonnay. Having used EC-1118 and D-47 to ferment Chardonnay, I have been very pleased with the results of the D-47. I would consider the EC-1118 a work horse yeast thats job is to get the job done. I think we could agree that 1118 doesn’t contribute to the process other than that.

If I use D-47 on my DB, it might produce a “fruitier” wine which is what I want - but if the collective hasn’t use it before on DB, not sure I want to be the first.


----------



## hounddawg

crushday said:


> My only experience with D-47 has been with Chardonnay. Having used EC-1118 and D-47 to ferment Chardonnay, I have been very pleased with the results of the D-47. I would consider the EC-1118 a work horse yeast thats job is to get the job done. I think we could agree that 1118 doesn’t contribute to the process other than that.
> 
> If I use D-47 on my DB, it might produce a “fruitier” wine which is what I want - but if the collective hasn’t use it before on DB, not sure I want to be the first.


yawl are way beyond a ole country hillbilly like me, D-47 is nice for your fruit aromas , but another workhorse that retains a more fruity aroma/flavor, works in nutrient lacking meads, and dry fruit wines, have yawl ever give K1V-1116 a try, and if it is not right there you can start with D-47 and when you get K1V-1116 it will take over from D-47 extremely well since both help hold fruitiness, 
sorry to but in, just a sleepless night, done stirred every things, and just doing a little reading, sorry if i have intruded,
Dawg


----------



## RocketBee

From the Scott's Laboratory Winemaking Handbook: 

"Lalvin K1 (V1116)™ is one of the highest ester producing strains in our portfolio. When fermented at low temperatures (16°C/61°F) with proper nutrition, it is a strong floral ester producer, especially in neutral or high-yielding varieties."

A few high-dollar words in there, but I think the handbook agrees with you @hounddawg. Have you used K1V in DDDB?


----------



## hounddawg

no, never made DDDB, i have only made all the native fruits and berries in my neck of the woods, never a kit, nore from grape except possum grapes and muscadine which are distant kin i think,,,, , and all my wines are from scratch, funny i have planed for years to give DDDB a try, i hear about it yearly, who knows i get these few wines i got going kicked back now would be as good as any time, right now i got 5#-6's of SP, 3#-6's of banana, 3#-6's of strawberry, and getting ready to start 2#-6's of tart cherry,
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

oops's forgot i also got 3#-6's of blackberry and elderberry blend bubbling too
Dawg


----------



## crushday

@hounddawg Sorry you had a short night. Thanks for adding to the discussion. I don’t have K1 and my local store is closed due to CoVid. I could likely get some from Amazon but haven’t checked. I think for this round I’ll stick with what I have on hand and go with the 1118 as I know it will work with decent results.


----------



## crushday

Update: I added 4.5 gallons of water and was able to get to the 7.5 gallon mark on my fermenter. 16 gallons of berries takes up a lot of real estate in this universe. After stirring it all together I got an initial SG of 1.089 but I expect that to go up some. Once the must temp is in the mid 60’s I’ll do another gravity reading and pitch the yeast. I’ll add nutrient between 40-50 and get ready for smooth sailing.


----------



## fsa46

crushday said:


> @hounddawg Sorry you had a short night. Thanks for adding to the discussion. I don’t have K1 and my local store is closed due to CoVid. I could likely get some from Amazon but haven’t checked. I think for this round I’ll stick with what I have on hand and go with the 1118 as I know it will work with decent results.



1118 is all I ever use for SP or DB and never had an issue with fermentation or going completely dry.


----------



## RocketBee

I agree @fsa46 EC-1118 is very reliable and my results have been very similar to yours. However, just wondering with a different yeast what it would do to the flavor profile. I think 71B, D47 and according to @hounddawg K1V would be adding a layer of fruitiness or fruity aroma to DB that you don't get from EC-1118. By the way @crushday I did a search and found 3 or 4 folks who've tried D47 in DB, but I didn't see any commentary afterward (not that I looked very hard for it).


----------



## hounddawg

wine making is like life, death is only last lesson learned on earth that is,,,
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

RocketBee said:


> We bottled our DB yesterday and, of course, we had a short bottle. My wife and daughters and I tasted the short bottle. Daughters had lots of good things to say, said it might be a little sweet, but my lovely bride used the two most dreaded words: "cough syrup".
> 
> As for me, over the short time that has passed after back-sweetening till yesterday, the flavor has improved. The fruitiness has come forward and it seems more tart than before. I can taste the distinct flavors of the lemon, sugar and the fruit. I'm guessing that time will help blend the flavors. @willie you were right...you said two to three months, but the flavor has already improved in just a week.


well it was in bottle shock, and my country wines i do a fsg or backsweeten to 1.040, or you can drop it a little next time, 1.030. or 1.020,, after getting on this thread after many years today i read the DDDB recipe, and I got a blackberry/elderberry that will go into buk aging last of next week, and starting a strawberry, but have decided that before my tart cherry i will do a 12 gallon batch of DDDB, now see what yawl have done, you ventors are bad influences on me and have lead me astray, Thank yawl for that ,, lol
Dawg


----------



## dangerdave

Shortly after I started making DB, I tried various other yeasts I had on hand, including K1. Now, I’m not going to be much help here as I discovered I like how it comes out with EC-1118. As, I recall from my notes, the K1 batch I made was lighter in color, smoother in flavor, less acidic. However, I like my DB tart, fresh, and over ice.


----------



## fsa46

I recently took a bottle of blackberry wine made from Vintners Blackberry Fruit Base that was back-sweetened to 1.02 and aged for 8 months and mixed it with a a bottle of Skeeter Pee that was also back-sweetened to 1.02. The results were outstanding.

I'm certain I'm not the only person to do this but wanted to mentioned it because of how good it came out.

I am a BIG fan of SP, but what an easy way to make Dragon Blood and just thought I'd pass it along.


----------



## hounddawg

fsa46 said:


> I recently took a bottle of blackberry wine made from Vintners Blackberry Fruit Base that was back-sweetened to 1.02 and aged for 8 months and mixed it with a a bottle of Skeeter Pee that was also back-sweetened to 1.02. The results were outstanding.
> 
> I'm certain I'm not the only person to do this but wanted to mentioned it because of how good it came out.
> 
> I am a BIG fan of SP, but what an easy way to make Dragon Blood and just though I'd pass it along.




thats a snappy suggestion, to get mine in line of process I'm ordering from homewinery.con ,,, 3# concentrates,, 1# black raspberry, 1#blackberry and 1#blueberry, i already got several lemon juice concentrates, these will let me test a small batch of 13 gallons,, i've heard of this for years, and procasternated for years, now unless i end up in a ditch, floating in water or stuffed into a garbage bin, i'll put these in the freezer, this last couple years i have all but abandoned my fresh fruit, elderberry, apple and pear i still do beings they are right at the house,, you said your a big fan of skeeter pee,, i am as well, but i port mine, most of my skeeter pee goes to my aunt, latter stage cancer, all the med's she can get still don't allow her to sleep, so at bedtime she drinks one coffee cup full of skeeter pee port and sleeps straight through, i can drop her off a couple cases and it lasts her forever, of all my mom's 8 sisters she has always been the nicest person you could ever wish to meet, no matter who you were, 
Dawg,,,


----------



## crushday

Johnd said:


> Use whatever # per gallon suits your fancy. I don’t like adding water to the fruit at all, and make mine with no water added.


John, can you provide more information about the amount of fruit you would use for a 6 gallon batch? I recently started a batch with 16 pounds of fruit and added 4.5 gallons of water. This got me to the 7 gallon mark. Of course, this will be reduced once I pull the skins and press them. Ultimately, I'd like to make a batch without adding any water. My six gallon carboys are never filled to the brim with 6 gallons of wine. It ALWAYS takes more...


----------



## Johnd

crushday said:


> John, can you provide more information about the amount of fruit you would use for a 6 gallon batch? I recently started a batch with 16 pounds of fruit and added 4.5 gallons of water. This got me to the 7 gallon mark. Of course, this will be reduced once I pull the skins and press them. Ultimately, I'd like to make a batch without adding any water. My six gallon carboys are never filled to the brim with 6 gallons of wine. It ALWAYS takes more...



My most recent batch was waterless, or very close to it, I’ll have to dig to find my notes to see what I did. Might have posted about it in this thread, I’ll look around til I find it and let you know.


----------



## Johnd

crushday said:


> John, can you provide more information about the amount of fruit you would use for a 6 gallon batch? I recently started a batch with 16 pounds of fruit and added 4.5 gallons of water. This got me to the 7 gallon mark. Of course, this will be reduced once I pull the skins and press them. Ultimately, I'd like to make a batch without adding any water. My six gallon carboys are never filled to the brim with 6 gallons of wine. It ALWAYS takes more...



Here it is: DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine


----------



## DizzyIzzy

hounddawg said:


> thats a snappy suggestion, to get mine in line of process I'm ordering from homewinery.con ,,, 3# concentrates,, 1# black raspberry, 1#blackberry and 1#blueberry, i already got several lemon juice concentrates, these will let me test a small batch of 13 gallons,, i've heard of this for years, and procasternated for years, now unless i end up in a ditch, floating in water or stuffed into a garbage bin, i'll put these in the freezer, this last couple years i have all but abandoned my fresh fruit, elderberry, apple and pear i still do beings they are right at the house,, you said your a big fan of skeeter pee,, i am as well, but i port mine, most of my skeeter pee goes to my aunt, latter stage cancer, all the med's she can get still don't allow her to sleep, so at bedtime she drinks one coffee cup full of skeeter pee port and sleeps straight through, i can drop her off a couple cases and it lasts her forever, of all my mom's 8 sisters she has always been the nicest person you could ever wish to meet, no matter who you were,
> Dawg,,,


Prayers for your beloved aunt


----------



## RocketBee

I did a little search and found @dangerdave did a side-by-side comparison with DB and altered only the yeast...EC-1118 v. 71B-1122. Interesting reading, makes me want to stick with the EC-1118. Just wondering whether anyone's ever done a side-by-side using D47.





__





Yeast Comparison [EC-1118 vs 71B-1122]


I am doing a comparison of the Lavin EC-1118 and the Lavin 71B-1122 in a side-by-side Dragon Blood recipe study. I am using the basic DB recipe and presser method, and taking every effort to make these two batches exactly the same except for the different yeasts. Day 1: (7-25-13) I gathered...




www.winemakingtalk.com


----------



## hounddawg

DizzyIzzy said:


> Prayers for your beloved aunt


thank you from my heart,,,,
Richard


----------



## hounddawg

RocketBee said:


> I did a little search and found @dangerdave did a side-by-side comparison with DB and altered only the yeast...EC-1118 v. 71B-1122. Interesting reading, makes me want to stick with the EC-1118. Just wondering whether anyone's ever done a side-by-side using D47.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeast Comparison [EC-1118 vs 71B-1122]
> 
> 
> I am doing a comparison of the Lavin EC-1118 and the Lavin 71B-1122 in a side-by-side Dragon Blood recipe study. I am using the basic DB recipe and presser method, and taking every effort to make these two batches exactly the same except for the different yeasts. Day 1: (7-25-13) I gathered...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.winemakingtalk.com


i used to use D-47, finally i just dropped back to EC-1118 & K1V-1116, so for a few years now, that's all i keep & use, ,,, let e clarify i only make country wines, therefore i do no attempt certain levels as those that make traditional style wines,,, i have tried every yeast i could find world wide, but as a fruit or berry country wine maker, i am beyond happy with EC-1118 & K1V-1116 
Dawg


----------



## fsa46

RocketBee said:


> I did a little search and found @dangerdave did a side-by-side comparison with DB and altered only the yeast...EC-1118 v. 71B-1122. Interesting reading, makes me want to stick with the EC-1118. Just wondering whether anyone's ever done a side-by-side using D47.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeast Comparison [EC-1118 vs 71B-1122]
> 
> 
> I am doing a comparison of the Lavin EC-1118 and the Lavin 71B-1122 in a side-by-side Dragon Blood recipe study. I am using the basic DB recipe and presser method, and taking every effort to make these two batches exactly the same except for the different yeasts. Day 1: (7-25-13) I gathered...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.winemakingtalk.com



Thanks for posting the link to dangerdaves old post. It is very interesting and very well done, my hat's off to you Dave. I make a lot of SP and always use the 1118 because not only is it bullet proof, but the finish product is always consistent and outstanding. 

I've read so many posts about members having a problem with fermentation when making SP or DB . I never, ever have a problem using the 1118 and keeping the temp between 75 and 80 degrees.


----------



## vacuumpumpman

It just shows how much difference in the yeast plays in taste and color. I am glad as a winemaker- I can make those choices today. I found that 71B-1112 takes alot of the acid out during fermentation - good for those High acid wines - unless you prefer it that way. 

Sorry about your loss - Rich


----------



## hounddawg

hum, well i did some reading/research on dave's DB, his words, feel free to do with as you wish, well yawl know me, so i got coming, black raspberry, blueberry & sour cherry, so when i get a free fermenter that's the version i'll try first, EC-1118 WILL be my yeast, 
Dawg


----------



## RocketBee

Well, I discussed it with the CEO (my lovely bride) last night over dinner and my next round of DB will be very close to the original recipe, just upping the fruit a bit and dropping the back-sweetening down from 2/3 cup per gallon. I will also be sticking with EC-1118. I considered using 71B, but after reviewing the side-by-side comparison @dangerdave did, I think I'll be better off with EC-1118. @hounddawg ... please do share details on your batch if you're able. I would love to hear more about your approach.


----------



## hounddawg

RocketBee said:


> Well, I discussed it with the CEO (my lovely bride) last night over dinner and my next round of DB will be very close to the original recipe, just upping the fruit a bit and dropping the back-sweetening down from 2/3 cup per gallon. I will also be sticking with EC-1118. I considered using 71B, but after reviewing the side-by-side comparison @dangerdave did, I think I'll be better off with EC-1118. @hounddawg ... please do share details on your batch if you're able. I would love to hear more about your approach.


will do my large fernmenter will be empty today,30 gal,, so within two days i should start, i have 13 -6's to rack, in the next two days first
Dawg


----------



## wannab1

I've made a couple of batches of Dragons Blood and must say I love this stuff. Looking to try a different version I picked up 3 packs (12#) of mixed fruit (Pineapples / strawberry / peaches /mangos.) I thought I had read it was recommended to double the fruit if going with something different. This is still very new to me so I was curious if I should make any other changes to the recipe before starting this batch. I am very curious as to why the changes should be made (if any) so I will understand what to do in the future with other versions. 
Thanks to DD and everyone for all the info I'm attempting to sort thru in this thread.


----------



## crushday

crushday said:


> Started my second batch of DDDB today with a few tweaks... Essentially, I doubled the berries and will only back sweeten with 1/4 cup of sugar (to taste) per gallon instead of the 1/2 cup per gallon in my first edition.
> 
> Here’s my notes so far:
> 
> Danger Dave’s Dragon Blood, started 4/24/2020 with 64oz of lemon juice concentrate (Kroger), 16 pounds of triple berry from Fred Meyer, 24 cups of sugar, 3 tsp of tannin, 1 tsp pectin, 1 tsp of yeast energizer, mixed all together in a 5 gallon brew pot while thawing and cold soaking. Tomorrow I’ll add water to mix 7 gallons of must so the finished volume will be approximately 6 gallons and pitch yeast EC-1118 when up to correct temp.


Update - Ok, DDDG Nation, I pressed this morning. 16 gallons of fruit was reduced by the Lallzyme EX-V to four cups of grey pulp. I think I was successful in extracting everything from the fruit, lol. Gravity down to .999 from a start of 1.113. Can anyone say "rocket fuel"? Fermentation has been steady throughout. Under airlock now. 

I'll let it die out and settle. I'll hit it with KMeta and Sorbate in a couple of weeks before racking for a long nap.


----------



## G259

I think that the amount of sugar you back-sweeten with plays a huge role in the wine, but everyone is different. Instead of adding the suggested sugar to do this, I like to start small, taste, then add (a little) more, tasting as I go (bench trials). I test the SG of the wine after it is at my level, that gives me future insight as to where I may like it. I may like some fruits sweeter, some drier.


----------



## hounddawg

wannab1 said:


> I've made a couple of batches of Dragons Blood and must say I love this stuff. Looking to try a different version I picked up 3 packs (12#) of mixed fruit (Pineapples / strawberry / peaches /mangos.) I thought I had read it was recommended to double the fruit if going with something different. This is still very new to me so I was curious if I should make any other changes to the recipe before starting this batch. I am very curious as to why the changes should be made (if any) so I will understand what to do in the future with other versions.
> Thanks to DD and everyone for all the info I'm attempting to sort thru in this thread.


the more fruit the higher the flavor
Dawg


----------



## DizzyIzzy

Bliorg said:


> Thanks Will. I _did_ rack it a number of days ago and I’m probably up to that much PE at this point. Temp is holding around 75F now. Maybe marginally better since yesterday. I’m in a holding pattern right now...


Can you tell me what is.....PE?


----------



## hounddawg

crushday said:


> Update - Ok, DDDG Nation, I pressed this morning. 16 gallons of fruit was reduced by the Lallzyme EX-V to four cups of grey pulp. I think I was successful in extracting everything from the fruit, lol. Gravity down to .999 from a start of 1.113. Can anyone say "rocket fuel"? Fermentation has been steady throughout. Under airlock now.
> 
> I'll let it die out and settle. I'll hit it with KMeta and Sorbate in a couple of weeks before racking for a long nap.


adding lemon or pineapple hides the rocket fuel taste, and it dont take much,,
Dawg


----------



## sour_grapes

willie said:


> I don't think your clearing problem has anything to do with the Super Kleer not doing the job. If you have 1 1/4 inch of sediment I would rack it again and add 3 or 4 more teaspoons of peptic enzyme. We had a stubborn batch of Raspberry that we had to put in 8 tea spoons in it to finally get it to clear this summer.* Peptic enzyme* will not hurt your wine in the least. Will not harm the taste. The only wine we have had peptic haze issues with is Strawberry, Raspberry and Peach.
> 
> Will





Bliorg said:


> Thanks Will. I _did_ rack it a number of days ago and I’m probably up to* that much PE at this point*. Temp is holding around 75F now. Maybe marginally better since yesterday. I’m in a holding pattern right now...





DizzyIzzy said:


> Can you tell me what is.....PE?



Dizzy, context is your friend.

It is actually "pectic enzyme."


----------



## dangerdave

wannab1 said:


> I've made a couple of batches of Dragons Blood and must say I love this stuff. Looking to try a different version I picked up 3 packs (12#) of mixed fruit (Pineapples / strawberry / peaches /mangos.) I thought I had read it was recommended to double the fruit if going with something different. This is still very new to me so I was curious if I should make any other changes to the recipe before starting this batch. I am very curious as to why the changes should be made (if any) so I will understand what to do in the future with other versions.
> Thanks to DD and everyone for all the info I'm attempting to sort thru in this thread.


I have used this fruit blend before to make a tropical version. You should like it. Good luck!


----------



## abrewkat

@wannab1 Sounds good! I've actually only made the tropical blend, and I swap out some of the lemon juice for pineapple. It's always turned out really well and was well received by friends. I have used mango and strawberry, and mango, strawberry, and tropical fruit blend. I also "cooked" up some banana in water and added that too. The theory was for mouthfeel, but it added a hint of banana to it as well. One day soon I'll try the original, though at present some friends only make the original, and we swap back and forth. Have my first batch of SP on the go. Seems to be a bit slow starting up, but I'm being patient!


----------



## willie

wannab1 said:


> I've made a couple of batches of Dragons Blood and must say I love this stuff. Looking to try a different version I picked up 3 packs (12#) of mixed fruit (Pineapples / strawberry / peaches /mangos.) I thought I had read it was recommended to double the fruit if going with something different. This is still very new to me so I was curious if I should make any other changes to the recipe before starting this batch. I am very curious as to why the changes should be made (if any) so I will understand what to do in the future with other versions.
> Thanks to DD and everyone for all the info I'm attempting to sort thru in this thread.



If the mixed fruit you described is Wally World's Great Value brand I have 2 of the 4# bags along with a big bottle of Juicy Juice Apple Peach that is going to dry in the fermenter now. I meant to put a few bananas in the bag but forgot this time. This tropical version turns out great and is a nice change up verses the mixed berry's. Great for summer too. 

Will


----------



## wannab1

willie said:


> If the mixed fruit you described is Wally World's Great Value brand I have 2 of the 4# bags along with a big bottle of Juicy Juice Apple Peach that is going to dry in the fermenter now. I meant to put a few bananas in the bag but forgot this time. This tropical version turns out great and is a nice change up verses the mixed berry's. Great for summer too.
> 
> Will


It is the great value brand. So you find 2 bags to be sufficient? If so I may try that and if it's to my liking I'm ready to start another batch  Also I'll pick up a bottle of the Apple peach this weekend, 64oz?


----------



## Medic8106

I just racked a strawberry, peach, mango, pineapple, banana batch to secondary. Cleared fairly quick but if you look closely, there are a lot of suspended particles. About 7 lbs of fruit.


----------



## DizzyIzzy

sour_grapes said:


> Dizzy, context is your friend.
> 
> It is actually "pectic enzyme."


Sour grapes..................Dah, it's tough growing older and losing one's mind. Thankyou


----------



## DizzyIzzy

sour_grapes said:


> Dizzy, context is your friend.
> 
> It is actually "pectic enzyme."


sour_grapes......yes, I am in Ohio.....context?.....I think that is in the US of A. LOL


----------



## hounddawg

DangerDave i am making my first DDDB but i used,, blueberry ,black raspberry and sour cherry,and lemon juice,,i already had the sour cherry and beings, and wish to know if it is ok to put your handle on it,

( DD's Dragons Blood, ) i see where you have done the same recipe but at times you change up the type juices,, after this one i plain to make your original to the T,,, 
Dawg


----------



## Chuck Price

Hello everyone! I’ve been making wine since 2013 (started with kits) and progressed to fresh fruit (vitis vinifera) at harvest. I’ve been reading this thread for a while and thought I’d try my hand at Danger Dave’s Dragons Blood since (a) I’d never made a wine like this before, and (b) this is such an amazing, vibrant community I thought I’d try to contribute! The DB turned out wonderful and my wife says I’ll definitely be making it again in the future...!  

Thanks in advance to DD and everyone here whom I’ve read that’s helped me get to this point. This is a bit of a read so I’m happy to answer any questions along the way...

Enjoy!
~Chuck

*Ingredients used:*

16#’s Kirkland’s Mixed Berry Blend ($10/ea) - Blueberry, Blackberry, Raspberry
Granulated Sugar, 20 cups
Lallzyme EX (.6g), Cellar Science
Italian Volcano 100% Organic Lemon Juice (50 oz), from Costco
FT Rouge (7.8g), Cellar Science
EC1118 Yeast (5g), Lalvin
Go-Ferm Protect Evolution (7.5g), Cellar Science
FermFed (DAP Free) (9g), Cellar Science
Fermaid K (6g), Cellar Science
Super-Kleer K.C. (2.2 oz), Liquor Quik (Kieselsol and Chitosan for fining)
Potassium Metabisulfite (.5 tsp), Cellar Science
Granulated Sugar (6#) boiled in 2 cups water until clear to make Simple Sugar
*Notes: *

Started on Saturday evening, April 25th; 
Ready to begin enjoying on May 16th (4 weeks after start); it was really good at this point after back-sweetening, but I’m sure it will get even better over the next few months as everyone says (and “regular” wines do)
All additions were based on starting w/6 gals of juice; ended up with a little over 4.5 gals of wine
I decided NOT to add Potassium Sorbate to sterilize any potentially remaining yeast before back-sweetening. My primary reasoning was that I filtered using a sterile filter so assuming that will eliminate the remaining yeast. I also didn’t want to do this because K-Sorbate actually starts to add vegetative flavors as the wine ages. Also, I plan to keg mine for easier access by the glass, so if it does start to ferment more then I’ll be fine with a little “Sparkling Dragons Blood”  That said, if you plan to drink all your wine within a year then I wouldn’t worry too much about that, and rather lean more toward short-term protection with K-Sorbate regardless of filtration. 
Left lid sitting loosely on top of fermenter (not snapped down) and no airlock/bubbler in the lid grommet during active fermentation.
*4/25 - Sat. Evening:*

Mixed all these ingredients together in 7 gal fermenting bucket to start

(A.) 16# frozen fruit in a mesh bag
Water to about 4.5 gals
(B.) Sugar, (C.) Enzyme, (D.) Lemon Juice

Measured starting Specific Gravity (B-SG) @ 1.090 
Notes: 
did NOT add K-Meta at this point; 
did NOT add tannin or yeast nutrients at this point as called for in original DD recipe; rather, added those with yeast a day later 

*4/26 - Sun. Morning*

Added the following, stirring well

(E.) Tannin powder, (F.) Yeast, (G.) Yeast Nutrient 
… stirred twice a day until…

*4/29 - Thur. Evening*

Measured SG and noticed I was about halfway through ferment and it seemed to be slowing. So I added the following:

(H.) and (I.) Yeast Nutrients (note these are additional yeast nutrients at about 1/3 to 1/2 through ferment that are not called for in original DD recipe)
… see video from 5/2 (Sat.) — nutrients obviously helped kick up the ferment and ensure completion! 
… continued stirring twice a day until…

*5/6 - Wed. Evening*

Noticed that ferment was pretty much done w/SG @ 1.000
Removed fruit bag — it was TINY! Clearly the enzymes had helped to extract all the fruit we were going to get in this batch.  
Added (K.) K-Meta to help protect since ferment was done (and yeast no longer providing CO2 blanket to protect from oxidizing)
Snapped down fermenting bucket lid and added Bubbler
Stopped stirring to let it settle so I could rack to carboy on Saturday
*5/9 - Sat. Evening*

Measured finishing SG (F-SG) @ 0.990 — ferment is done!
Racked off of gross lees to carboy
Added (J.) fining agents, stirring the heck out of it to help degas
Let sit and clear for a week 
*5/16 - Afternoon*

Nice, small layer of fine lees at bottom of carboy; wine looking very nice and clear already!
Filtered with .5 Micron filter using small Buon Vino filter
Performed tests for:
pH (3.01) @ 71.8F; 
TA @ .62% tartaric; 
SO2 @ 3.2ppm; 
F-SG @ 0.990 so ABV = ~13.5% (Whew! That’s hot!)

Added (L.) 6# Simple Sugar to back-sweeten
The resulting wine is a beautiful, clear and brilliant ruby red. (My wife said it looks like a beautiful ruby jewel!) We enjoyed a couple glasses on ice and it’s yuuuumy already! 

*Closing thoughts and observations:*
It’s obviously very young as I’m making these observations, but the week I was letting it clear I was tasting it along the way, adding granulated sugar to a glass to test how the sugar might offset the tartness (which was, WOW, super-tart!) It had a VERY pungent/funky nose! So much so that, after sweetening the glass with some sugar, I actually asked my wife and my cousin to NOT smell it before they each tasted it. They loved the taste! Then I asked them to nose it and they both were like, “Oh my gosh! What is that?!” Needless to say, the nose and the taste experiences weren’t lining up well. After filtering and sweeting with the simple sugar that small has definitely waned quite a bit, so I’m hoping that it’ll continue to blow off whatever that funky odor is. One thought I have about the odor is that it’s so strong because I added so much fruit — notice almost 3x what DD’s recipe calls for. But, I also think that the reason it’s such a deep ruby color is exactly because I added so much fruit as well. It really does taste great.

About the amount of fruit: when I make regular wine from fresh fruit (vitis vinifera — my daughter likes to call them “wine berries” <grin>), I use 100# to make about the same six gallons of wine but I obviously don’t add the water. This was curious to me so it just seemed like I “needed more fruit” in this wine.  I’m wondering, however, if this almost 3x more fruit than DD’s recipe called for isn’t the reason for the strong pungent (raw berry?) smell at this young age of the wine? I’m optimistic that this smell will “blow off” with age, as it certainly mellows as the wine opens up. Meaning, as I decant this wine now for about 30 minutes that smell is almost gone. I also think one positive benefit from using 16# of fruit (vs 6#) was to give the wine more body, making it less “watery”. So, the mouthfeel of this one is akin a little more to a Pino Noir rather than a Rose or blush wine. Maybe that’s good for some folks, or maybe that’s bad — just depends on your individual preferences and goals with the type of target wine you’re trying to make. That’s one of the many beauty’s of this art we call winemaking!  

Cost: The wine berries I buy from the Grand Valley AVA here in Colorado cost ~$1/lb. Whereas, the Costco Mixed Berries on a $/lb basis come out to about $2.50/lb! So, one might think it would be cheaper to make vinifera wine (I typically make Merlot, Cab Sauv, Cab Franc and Riesling); but since the original DD recipe calls for only 6#’s of Mixed Berries, the total fruit cost is ~$10 (or free if you have it in your back yard!) vs $100 to make the same volume of wine (# bottles).

About taste and that 6# of simple sugar for back-sweetening…  That certainly is a lot of sugar to add, but this wine is actually not a viscous as an dessert/ice wine, as you might imagine adding that much sugar. It is sweet, for sure, but I did a number of taste tests (with my wife is the primary “approver”, of course — how else do you think I get to keep spending money on this hobby! LOL ) using varying amounts of sugar from 5g sugar/50ml of wine to 15g sugar/50ml of wine and it really needed a bit more sugar to balance both the tartness and the alcohol level (”hotness”). So, I ended up at about 8g/50ml (or 15-16% RS) which is around a German Auslese style Riesling level of sweetness. It currently has a very nice sweet/acid/alcohol balance, with a nice, soft mouthfeel and a little longer finish. It definitely hits the tongue sweet at first, with very noticeable fruit in the mid-palate, and the slightest “zing” due to the high alcohol has you breath in after swallowing. It’s definitely not your normal one-dimensional blush/fruit wine! One final interesting note on taste here is that I get no hint of bitter tannin at all. So, I’m confident the FT Rouge contributed to the mouthfeel, but there’s definitely no “rip your teeth off tannin’s” if you’re worried about that at all. I think you’d have to add a lot more tannin powder before you’d feel that…which, you may if that’s your thing!  

About the amount of sulfite: I prefer a lower sulfite wine in general and this wine ended up at about 3.5 ppm. I think this will be fine and provide enough protection due to a few factors: lower pH @ 3.01 (see graph), higher ABV of 13.5% and an on-point TA at ~ .62% tartaric.

Thank you Danger Dave for all your generous contributions!
~Chuck


----------



## Chuck Price

Chuck Price said:


> *Ingredients used:*
> 
> 16#’s Kirkland’s Mixed Berry Blend ($10/ea) - Blueberry, Blackberry, Raspberry
> Granulated Sugar, 20 cups
> Lallzyme EX (.6g), Cellar Science
> Italian Volcano 100% Organic Lemon Juice (50 oz), from Costco
> FT Rouge (7.8g), Cellar Science
> EC1118 Yeast (5g), Lalvin
> Go-Ferm Protect Evolution (7.5g), Cellar Science
> FermFed (DAP Free) (9g), Cellar Science
> Fermaid K (6g), Cellar Science
> Super-Kleer K.C. (2.2 oz), Liquor Quik (Kieselsol and Chitosan for fining)
> Potassium Metabisulfite (.5 tsp), Cellar Science
> Granulated Sugar (6#) boiled in 2 cups water until clear to make Simple Sugar


----------



## wannab1

Finally bottled my DDDB and SP and thought I would try these bottles for an upcoming camping trip. Nothing long term so hoping it'll be ok.


----------



## sour_grapes

wannab1 said:


> Finally bottled my DDDB and SP and thought I would try these bottles for an upcoming camping trip. Nothing long term so hoping it'll be ok.



Plus it looks VERY innocent!


----------



## RocketBee

I started my second batch of DB about five days ago. Only one tweak so far: I added an extra 3 lbs. of fruit. I'm in the active fermentation phase, original gravity was 1.084 and after testing today, S.G. is at 1.042. One thing I'd like to point out is that in my first batch the early bottles I broke out after bottling seemed way too sweet, but three months later, the sweetness seems much less pronounced. Someone on this thread told me that, but I don't remember who...thank you whoever you are.


----------



## hounddawg

RocketBee said:


> I started my second batch of DB about five days ago. Only one tweak so far: I added an extra 3 lbs. of fruit. I'm in the active fermentation phase, original gravity was 1.084 and after testing today, S.G. is at 1.042. One thing I'd like to point out is that in my first batch the early bottles I broke out after bottling seemed way too sweet, but three months later, the sweetness seems much less pronounced. Someone on this thread told me that, but I don't remember who...thank you whoever you are.



ah,,, TIME the winemakers secret ingredient ,,,,
Dawg


----------



## Fulmor

Made a batch of this eight or so months ago. It does not taste like any wine that I drink, more like Kool-Aid with a distilled spirit added. Kinda like the jungle-juice kids put together as an alternative to beer at college parties but takes much greater effort. I cannot foresee it improving much with any amount of tweaking. 

My question is: What does your batches flavor / taste compare too? Thanks in advance


----------



## RocketBee

I agree it doesn't taste like any wine that I drink either and I'm not trying to compare my DB to anything, just dial it in to my friends' and family's preference. They like it, so I'm going to try to improve it to their taste and hopefully, have them like it even more. I never drank any "jungle-juice" in college and I haven't been a wine drinker for very long, so I'm probably just blissfully ignorant...but I am having fun and so are the people I care about.


----------



## Aeludor

I'm working on my first DDDBW and was wondering how sweet is it? Dave back sweetens with 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon, is that still fairly dry? Or if I like a dryer wine should I be using 1/2 a cup per gallon? (I know, add until i like it, but does it get sweeter as it ages?)


Edit: Found my answer in this thread from a few years ago.


----------



## G259

With (fruit) wine, you have to allow for age. Can it be drank young? Absolutely! Will it improve over time? Absolutely! (isn't wine great!)


----------



## RocketBee

Aeludor said:


> Edit: Found my answer in this thread from a few years ago.



@Aeludor would be able to note the message # or post the link to what you found?

Also, as the bottles from my first batch are magically disappearing off the rack, what I noticed is that the sugar taste was well into the foreground in the bottles we opened first, now it is still there but has moved into the background. A lot of the early feedback I received was that it was too sweet, but now, at about 2.5 months after bottling, everyone seems to like it as is. Same batch, just a little time. Going from memory, I believe @dangerdave said to back sweeten with 2-6 cups of sugar (for a six gallon batch), depending on taste. I chose 4 cups...right in the middle. On my second batch, I'll probably back sweeten with less, but I probably won't reduce is by as much as I thought I would.


----------



## Aeludor

RocketBee said:


> @Aeludor would be able to note the message # or post the link to what you found?
> 
> Also, as the bottles from my first batch are magically disappearing off the rack, what I noticed is that the sugar taste was well into the foreground in the bottles we opened first, now it is still there but has moved into the background. A lot of the early feedback I received was that it was too sweet, but now, at about 2.5 months after bottling, everyone seems to like it as is. Same batch, just a little time. Going from memory, I believe @dangerdave said to back sweeten with 2-6 cups of sugar (for a six gallon batch), depending on taste. I chose 4 cups...right in the middle. On my second batch, I'll probably back sweeten with less, but I probably won't reduce is by as much as I thought I would.



I found the answer in this reply, DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine

Post 4,324

I don't like a super sweet wine so I did 1/2 a cup per gallon. I added it to the gallon that I had seperated to test until I had an amount I liked. Then I put the same amount per gallon in the main carboy. If I find it's not quite sweet enough, I'll go with 3/4 cup per gallon next time. Trial and error until I get a flavour I like.


----------



## Ambugaton

Started 2nd batch of DDDB last week. Clearing out our freezer because we are about to move across the country... so odd fruit combination of 12# salmonberries, 8# spruce tips, and 11# pineapple (didn't add the lemon juice as this has plenty acidity). I know 31# of fruit for 6 gal is a bit much, in the past 4-5# per gallon has been the ticket, anything less tastes a little watery to me. 

Ferment was fast (although I used expired EC1118 that didn't take initially) I followed up with a packet of K1-V1116 (closest thing I could find). Took off quickly, starting SG @ 1.086 (expected to rise a bit from extraction from fruit) and within 3 1/2 days it was SG 0.994. 

Will rack today and begin clearing. 

Has a great color (dark blush) which I attribute to the berries/pineapple combination obviously, but the spruce tips offer a deep pink/red as well.


----------



## G259

Wow, that should be a full bodied wine, with all the fruit! 3 1/2 days is also impressive (YAY 1118!) I don"t know any of those fruits, except the pineapple, but good luck, tell us the results!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Hi all! Just reading through some recent posts. I've been making DP since I started making wine 6 years ago. For those wondering about different fruit options, I've tried almost every one you can think of and they all turned out great. Just a few examples include a peach/apricot, a huckleberry, one I call Backyard Bounty because I throw in whatever fruit is growing in my backyard, a Concord grape (very popular with my family), a plum/elderberry, and a host of other combinations. As a side note, I always use 12 pounds of fruit.

In the last couple years, I've gotten my hands on tons of grapes and so I use them a lot in different versions. I've made a grape/triple berry version that I call a pink "Moscato" because of the color. I've done lots of grape only batches, some using all green grapes, which results in a lovely white wine, and others using a combination of whatever ones I have (and I honestly have no idea what varieties of grapes I have but some are just a table grape). Actually, most of my recent batches have been a combination of some type of fruit along with grapes since I have so many (last year it was about 120 pounds). I usually go with a 1:1 ratio but it all depends on how much fruit I have to throw in with the grapes.

One of the current favorite wines is more of a Skeeter Pee spin-off using half lime juice and half lemon. After it's fermented, I backsweeten with sugar and a can of limeade concentrate. Then I add a homemade mint infused lime rum, plus some mint and rum extract.

I guess my long winded post is to just let everyone know that any combination of fruit pretty much works so be creative or just clean out the freezer. I have yet to make one we didn't like so you won't be disappointed no matter what!


----------



## Medic8106

Bottled my tropical blend dragon blood yesterday. Naturally, I had some left over. Placed it in a regular glass and in the refrigerator. Went to drink it some time later and noted a heavy haze in the glass. The wine was perfectly clear in the bottle. Anyone have this occur with the tropical variety before? Pectin haze? The fruit was a mixture of pineapple, peach, mango, strawberry, banana. Used sparkalloid to clear, left sit for about 2 weeks to clear and another 2 after sweetening. Not a big deal, know its good to drink and tastes wonderful. Just inquiring.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Medic8106 said:


> Bottled my tropical blend dragon blood yesterday. Naturally, I had some left over. Placed it in a regular glass and in the refrigerator. Went to drink it some time later and noted a heavy haze in the glass. The wine was perfectly clear in the bottle. Anyone have this occur with the tropical variety before? Pectin haze? The fruit was a mixture of pineapple, peach, mango, strawberry, banana. Used sparkalloid to clear, left sit for about 2 weeks to clear and another 2 after sweetening. Not a big deal, know its good to drink and tastes wonderful. Just inquiring.



So, is the wine in the bottle still looking clear? Does it only get cloudy when it's chilled?


----------



## Medic8106

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> So, is the wine in the bottle still looking clear? Does it only get cloudy when it's chilled?


Yes. Wine is very clear in bottle until chilled.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Medic8106 said:


> Yes. Wine is very clear in bottle until chilled.



Sorry...I see now that you included that info in your original post and I missed it!

I've never had this happen personally but from what I'm reading, if it's dropping more of a crystal like sediment, it's tartaric acid. If it's just cloudy, it could be protein haze. Neither affects the taste of the wine.

Pectin haze is a possibility too but I thought that that was visible when the wine was room temperature too. Peach is definitely known to be a culprit.

I use a product called Lallzyme in addition to my regular pectic enzyme. The product description says it helps break down pectin in reds and rosés but I use an eighth of a teaspoon in all my fruit wines. I think it helps anyway.

Did you use some type of fining agent to help clear it? (Sorry if you mentioned that previously and I missed it)


----------



## G259

OK, The first thing I thought of was kind of funny, but I'll say it anyway. Are you sure it's not the glass fogging up from the cold?(!)
Please don't take offense, but sometimes the easy explanation is closest to the truth. When troubleshooting, I have learned to take
out the easy stuff first (is the fuse blown, power switch on, cord plugged in?)


----------



## Medic8106

G259 said:


> OK, The first thing I thought of was kind of funny, but I'll say it anyway. Are you sure it's not the glass fogging up from the cold?(!)
> Please don't take offense, but sometimes the easy explanation is closest to the truth. When troubleshooting, I have learned to take
> out the easy stuff first (is the fuse blown, power switch on, cord plugged in?)


Yeah definitely not just the glass. I'm going to place a full bottle in the fridge tonight and see if I get the same results. It certainly doesn't effect the taste and it doesn't create any "texture" to the wine.


----------



## hounddawg

RocketBee said:


> @Aeludor would be able to note the message # or post the link to what you found?
> 
> Also, as the bottles from my first batch are magically disappearing off the rack, what I noticed is that the sugar taste was well into the foreground in the bottles we opened first, now it is still there but has moved into the background. A lot o,f the early feedback I received was that it was too sweet, but now, at about 2.5 months after bottling, everyone seems to like it as is. Same batch, just a little time. Going from memory, I believe @dangerdave said to back sweeten with 2-6 cups of sugar (for a six gallon batch), depending on taste. I chose 4 cups...right in the middle. On my second batch, I'll probably back sweeten with less, but I probably won't reduce is by as much as I thought I would.


i back sweeten using a hydrometer to 1.040 and age for 8 to 10 years,
Dawg


----------



## RocketBee

So, on my second batch of DDDB, the wine doesn't appear to be clearing as quickly as the first batch. I probably got a little lazy on the degassing phase when I stabilized. In my first batch I degassed twice daily when under active fermentation, I only did it once per day in this round. Also, this batch I added an extra three pounds of fruit and didn't adjust the pectic enzyme level. I have stabilized, but have not yet back-sweetened. Is there anything to do besides wait?


----------



## winemanden

hounddawg said:


> i back sweeten using a hydrometer to 1.040 and age for 8 to 10 years,
> Dawg


Why would anyone disbelieve you Dawg? Some of the sweet wines in Germany (Trockenbeerenauslese etc.) aged twenty or thirty years.
*Höpler 2017 Trockenbeerenauslese White (Burgenland)*

Musky botrytis and zesty, candied grapefruit peel take equal attention on the nose, which is made all the more vivid by glorious white-pepper spice. The palate reprises this intriging interplay of intense, almost tooth-breaking sweetness and splintering freshness—an intense experience on a pure concentrated essence-like palate. Very powerful. Drink until 2045. ANNE KREBIEHL MW.
I would have thought that the amount of wine some of you chaps make, you'd have to age it for years, either that or sign up with AA. Anyway I was taught that education is not a sign of intelligence. Life is too short, refill your glass, ENJOY!!!


----------



## hounddawg

winemanden said:


> Why would anyone disbelieve you Dawg? Some of the sweet wines in Germany (Trockenbeerenauslese etc.) aged twenty or thirty years.
> *Höpler 2017 Trockenbeerenauslese White (Burgenland)*
> 
> Musky botrytis and zesty, candied grapefruit peel take equal attention on the nose, which is made all the more vivid by glorious white-pepper spice. The palate reprises this intriging interplay of intense, almost tooth-breaking sweetness and splintering freshness—an intense experience on a pure concentrated essence-like palate. Very powerful. Drink until 2045. ANNE KREBIEHL MW.
> I would have thought that the amount of wine some of you chaps make, you'd have to age it for years, either that or sign up with AA. Anyway I was taught that education is not a sign of intelligence. Life is too short, refill your glass, ENJOY!!!


elderberry in my area foothills of the Ozarks has always been aged that long, sadly all the oldtimers are gone, but now when i look into the mirror and my hair is still black but beard and moustache is all but snow white, i reckon that means now i'm becoming the old timer,,, and thank you, over the years i've lost most of my temper , but where i'm from calling a man a lair, well here we do more than just mouth, 
Dawg


----------



## sour_grapes

hounddawg said:


> elderberry in my area foothills of the Ozarks has always been aged that long, sadly all the oldtimers are gone, but now when i look into the mirror and my hair is still black but beard and moustache is all but snow white, i reckon that means now i'm becoming the old timer,,, and thank you, over the years i've lost most of my temper , but where i'm from calling a man a lair, well here we do more than just mouth,
> Dawg



That accusation (from the other user) was uncalled for, IMHO.


----------



## hounddawg

sour_grapes said:


> That accusation (from the other user) was uncalled for, IMHO.


thankyou, but i still should of controlled my temper, when i was young and partied the police called me honest rich, they pull me over ask if i'd been drinking if i said no they left, but if i said nothing and looked at my own feet, hehe, you know being honest with a police officers got me off more times then i could count, being called a liar dose send me ballistic, and i must get a better handle on it, i thought i was getting better lol that is what i get for doing my own thinking, and thank you very much,,,,,
Richard


----------



## DizzyIzzy

sour_grapes said:


> That accusation (from the other user) was uncalled for, IMHO.


sour_grapes.....Course I don't know what IMHO stands for, but I agree that the accusation, and most importantly, the disparaging remarks to Dawg were mean-spirited and uncalled for, completely!!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

RocketBee said:


> So, on my second batch of DDDB, the wine doesn't appear to be clearing as quickly as the first batch. I probably got a little lazy on the degassing phase when I stabilized. In my first batch I degassed twice daily when under active fermentation, I only did it once per day in this round. Also, this batch I added an extra three pounds of fruit and didn't adjust the pectic enzyme level. I have stabilized, but have not yet back-sweetened. Is there anything to do besides wait?



Hi there! I've made so many DB batches, I've lost count  First off, I never degass during fermention. I vigorously mush the fruit bag, but I don't take it out and stir the heck out of the must. Second, I always use around 12 pounds of fruit and never add extra enzyme. Well, I take that back, I use a product called Lallzyme in addition to regular pectic enzyme but only put a pinch of it in. So, that being said, what did you use for a fining agent? And what kind of fruit did you use?


----------



## hounddawg

DizzyIzzy said:


> sour_grapes.....Course I don't know what IMHO stands for, but I agree that the accusation, and most importantly, the disparaging remarks to Dawg were mean-spirited and uncalled for, completely!!


thank you, i am happy to just trying to make more wine,, i do appreciate everyone, 
,(((((( IMHO= in my humble opinion)))),, yep first time i seen that elsewhere i had to ask too,,,lol
dawg


----------



## winemanden

sour_grapes said:


> That accusation (from the other user) was uncalled for, IMHO.


My apologies if I am the other user you refer to. What I said about the AA was meant as a JOKE. 
Most of us over here in the UK can't make wine on the scale that you do over there - jealous I suppose. 
We do age some of our wines, but property over here is tiny compared to the US, so mostly our wines are for early drinking.


----------



## sour_grapes

winemanden said:


> My apologies if I am the other user you refer to. What I said about the AA was meant as a JOKE.
> Most of us over here in the UK can't make wine on the scale that you do over there - jealous I suppose.
> We do age some of our wines, but property over here is tiny compared to the US, so mostly our wines are for early drinking.



No, no, not you. The accusation that I referred to has since been deleted, thankfully!


----------



## RocketBee

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Hi there! I've made so many DB batches, I've lost count  First off, I never degass during fermention. I vigorously mush the fruit bag, but I don't take it out and stir the heck out of the must. Second, I always use around 12 pounds of fruit and never add extra enzyme. Well, I take that back, I use a product called Lallzyme in addition to regular pectic enzyme but only put a pinch of it in. So, that being said, what did you use for a fining agent? And what kind of fruit did you use?


@Val-the-Brew-Gal thanks for the reply! I used Sparkalloid per the instructions and I used three bags of triple berry mix from Sam's Club (raspberry, blackberry blueberry). They are three pounds each, so 9 lbs. of fruit in all.


----------



## hounddawg

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Hi all! Just reading through some recent posts. I've been making DP since I started making wine 6 years ago. For those wondering about different fruit options, I've tried almost every one you can think of and they all turned out great. Just a few examples include a peach/apricot, a huckleberry, one I call Backyard Bounty because I throw in whatever fruit is growing in my backyard, a Concord grape (very popular with my family), a plum/elderberry, and a host of other combinations. As a side note, I always use 12 pounds of fruit.
> 
> In the last couple years, I've gotten my hands on tons of grapes and so I use them a lot in different versions. I've made a grape/triple berry version that I call a pink "Moscato" because of the color. I've done lots of grape only batches, some using all green grapes, which results in a lovely white wine, and others using a combination of whatever ones I have (and I honestly have no idea what varieties of grapes I have but some are just a table grape). Actually, most of my recent batches have been a combination of some type of fruit along with grapes since I have so many (last year it was about 120 pounds). I usually go with a 1:1 ratio but it all depends on how much fruit I have to throw in with the grapes.
> 
> One of the current favorite wines is more of a Skeeter Pee spin-off using justhalf lime juice and half lemon. After it's fermented, I backsweeten with sugar and a can of limeade concentrate. Then I add a homemade mint infused lime rum, plus some mint and rum extract.
> 
> I guess my long winded post is to just let everyone know that any combination of fruit pretty much works so be creative or just clean out the freezer. I have yet to make one we didn't like so you won't be disappointed no matter what!


hum never heard of lallzyme before, i just looked it up, it and lallzyme max, 
going to have to give that a try, thanks val
dawg


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

RocketBee said:


> @Val-the-Brew-Gal thanks for the reply! I used Sparkalloid per the instructions and I used three bags of triple berry mix from Sam's Club (raspberry, blackberry blueberry). They are three pounds each, so 9 lbs. of fruit in all.




With 9 pounds of fruit, I wouldn't have adjusted the pectic enzyme amount myself. Sometimes when you have peaches, mango or apricots you need extra as they are harder to get clear. The berry mix though generally clears nicely without upping the enzyme amount. As for the Sparkalloid, I've only used it once and was not happy with the results. I personally love SuperKleer as it generally clears wine within a week at most. I have a grape-huckleberry that was pretty clear in just 3 days but I will let it sit about a week anyway just to be careful. Start to finish, most of my DBs are in the bottle in a little over 3 weeks...I'm not patient enough to wait longer  and it tastes awesome anyway. If your wine doesn't seem to be getting clearer, you might want to get a package of the SuperKleer and give it a try.


----------



## winemanden

Regarding what Dawg says about ageing his wine for 8 to 10 years, here's a quote from the Bible!
Gospel of Luke, chapter 3, verse 39
'No man having drunk old wine immediately desireth new; for he saith, The old is better'
Enjoy your next glass, but don't forget, in the Bible, even Noah got into trouble drinking too much wine.
Regards to all; stay safe!


----------



## hounddawg

winemanden said:


> Regarding what Dawg says about ageing his wine for 8 to 10 years, here's a quote from the Bible!
> Gospel of Luke, chapter 3, verse 39
> 'No man having drunk old wine immediately desireth new; for he saith, The old is better'
> Enjoy your next glass, but don't forget, in the Bible, even Noah got into trouble drinking too much wine.
> Regards to all; stay safe!


Amen


----------



## DizzyIzzy

winemanden said:


> My apologies if I am the other user you refer to. What I said about the AA was meant as a JOKE.
> Most of us over here in the UK can't make wine on the scale that you do over there - jealous I suppose.
> We do age some of our wines, but property over here is tiny compared to the US, so mostly our wines are for early drinking.


I don't think he was referring to you. As I recollect the poster was OMGPorkchop.......................Dizzy


----------



## DizzyIzzy

winemanden said:


> My apologies if I am the other user you refer to. What I said about the AA was meant as a JOKE.
> Most of us over here in the UK can't make wine on the scale that you do over there - jealous I suppose.
> We do age some of our wines, but property over here is tiny compared to the US, so mostly our wines are for early drinking.


Winemanden, question..................Do you mean city property is tiny, or country/suburbia property? Inquiring minds want to know LOL...................Dizzy


----------



## sour_grapes

winemanden said:


> Regarding what Dawg says about ageing his wine for 8 to 10 years, here's a quote from the Bible!
> Gospel of Luke, chapter 3, verse 39
> 'No man having drunk old wine immediately desireth new; for he saith, The old is better'
> Enjoy your next glass, but don't forget, in the Bible, even Noah got into trouble drinking too much wine.
> Regards to all; stay safe!



That would be Luke 5:39, no?

(HEY! I get to say that I quoted someone chapter and verse!  )


----------



## hounddawg

sour_grapes said:


> That would be Luke 5:39, no?
> 
> (HEY! I get to say that I quoted someone chapter and verse!  )


God Bless,


----------



## KCCam

*Toon Blood*
I don’t recall anyone in this thread ever saying that they’ve tried a Saskatoon berry Dragon Blood. Did I miss it or am I the first? I got 10.5 lbs of berries last year from my Saskatoon tree. Added 6 frozen bananas with skins and used only 32 oz Real Lemon. Other than that I followed the recipe. SG is now 0.995 but still lots of action. Should be ready to clear soon tho.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> *Toon Blood*
> I don’t recall anyone in this thread ever saying that they’ve tried a Saskatoon berry Dragon Blood. Did I miss it or am I the first? I got 10.5 lbs of berries last year from my Saskatoon tree. Added 6 frozen bananas with skins and used only 32 oz Real Lemon. Other than that I followed the recipe. SG is now 0.995 but still lots of action. Should be ready to clear soon tho.
> View attachment 62885


never heard of saskatoon berries,, you in the USA or elsewhere?
dawg


----------



## hounddawg

hounddawg said:


> never heard of saskatoon berries,, you in the USA or elsewhere?
> dawg


i'm on my first DDDB, sour cherry, black raspberry, blue berry,,
dawg


----------



## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> *Toon Blood*
> I don’t recall anyone in this thread ever saying that they’ve tried a Saskatoon berry Dragon Blood. Did I miss it or am I the first? I got 10.5 lbs of berries last year from my Saskatoon tree. Added 6 frozen bananas with skins and used only 32 oz Real Lemon. Other than that I followed the recipe. SG is now 0.995 but still lots of action. Should be ready to clear soon tho.
> View attachment 62885


Never heard of a Saskatoon tree. What state is it?.........................Dizzy


----------



## RocketBee

Here is the US we usually refer to Saskatoon berries as "service berries". Service berries grow on bushes, although a friend of mine in Colorado who is a gardening whiz grew his pretty high...maybe 25 feet or so and it looked more like tree than a bush.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KCCam said:


> *Toon Blood*
> I don’t recall anyone in this thread ever saying that they’ve tried a Saskatoon berry Dragon Blood. Did I miss it or am I the first? I got 10.5 lbs of berries last year from my Saskatoon tree. Added 6 frozen bananas with skins and used only 32 oz Real Lemon. Other than that I followed the recipe. SG is now 0.995 but still lots of action. Should be ready to clear soon tho.
> View attachment 62885



I would love to hear how it turns out so keep us posted.


----------



## KCCam

Wow, just Googled it. I didn’t realize there are so many names, or how wonderful these berries really are. Here in central Alberta (Edmonton), they grow as wild trees, easily 15’ tall. 

From the Saskatoon Berry Institute of North America:

“Saskatoon berries (Amelanchier alnifolia) look much like blueberries, though they are more closely related to the apple family.” “Saskatoon berries have a variety of names throughout North America, including: prairie berry, serviceberry, shadbush, juneberry and, in past centuries, pigeon berry.” “Saskatoon berries appear to be an excellent source of manganese, magnesium, iron, calcium, potassium, copper and carotene. Saskatoon berries are considered a better source of calcium than red meats, vegetables and cereals. Recent research indicates saskatoons have very high components of phenolics, flavonols and anthocyanins. Saskatoons are high in natural sugar, rich in Vitamin C, and also contain more than three times as much iron and copper in the same weight as raisins. (Saskatoon Nutrients: The Journal of Food Science – Volume 47 1982 Dr. G. Mazza)”


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> i'm on my first DDDB, sour cherry, black raspberry, blue berry,,
> dawg


@hounddawg, I saw a while back you started a sour cherry blend as your first Dragon Blood. Besides the saskatoons I picked last year, I got 11 lbs of Evans cherries from my neighbour's tree from just the branches that were hanging over the fence into my yard. I think the Evans cherry was developed locally. It's about the only cherry that will grow in our central Alberta climate, and it grows *very* well, producing a HUGE amount of cherries. They are sour, but not extremely so, and almost sweet when very ripe, sweet enough to eat right off the tree. But nothing like an actual sweet cherry. I had 4 lbs of frozen fresh blueberries in the freezer, and since l was less sure of how the cherries would ferment than the saskatoons, I added them to the Cherry Dragon Blood (still trying to come up with a good name). I see lots of comments about how bananas can help and we always have frozen bananas on hand for banana bread, so I threw a few of those in as well. It is fermenting almost identically to my Toon Blood though very slightly slower. It's a little darker which surprises me, and currently tastes very similar too, again, which surprises me. I can't wait until I can start clearing it. Dragon Blood is soooooo beautiful when clear! What quantities did you use in yours?


----------



## RocketBee

In my locale, it is a bad year for fruit tree production. I have two cherry trees with about a dozen cherries between them...what few apple blossoms I got were polished off by the velociraptors (aka mule deer) who made it through my Jurassic Park fence. The one item that is quite prolific this year is my one Red Lake Currant bush. I bet I have about 30 lbs. of currants ripening on it. Has anyone done a currant version of DDDB? Red Lake Currants are VERY tart, not sweet like a lot of black currants. Maybe it would be a replacement for the lemon juice? I'm going outside to cover my currant bush with a bird net before they maul the only produce I have at this point.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> @hounddawg, I saw a while back you started a sour cherry blend as your first Dragon Blood. Besides the saskatoons I picked last year, I got 11 lbs of Evans cherries from my neighbour's tree from just the branches that were hanging over the fence into my yard. I think the Evans cherry was developed locally. It's about the only cherry that will grow in our central Alberta climate, and it grows *very* well, producing a HUGE amount of cherries. They are sour, but not extremely so, and almost sweet when very ripe, sweet enough to eat right off the tree. But nothing like an actual sweet cherry. I had 4 lbs of frozen fresh blueberries in the freezer, and since l was less sure of how the cherries would ferment than the saskatoons, I added them to the Cherry Dragon Blood (still trying to come up with a good name). I see lots of comments about how bananas can help and we always have frozen bananas on hand for banana bread, so I threw a few of those in as well. It is fermenting almost identically to my Toon Blood though very slightly slower. It's a little darker which surprises me, and currently tastes very similar too, again, which surprises me. I can't wait until I can start clearing it. Dragon Blood is soooooo beautiful when clear! What quantities did you use in yours?
> View attachment 62898


YEP, same batch, got to many irons in the fire, on my DDDB variant , i got concentrates from homewinery.com i used a half gallon of each type, they say that a half gallon concentrate is good for 5 gallons but i think that's to lite, so i used 3 concentrates. 1 of each and got them in two 6 gallon carboys, i had a little extra so i put that in a 5 gallon carboy and topped that off with strawberry, when i use concentrates from homewinery.com i usually use 4 & 1/2 gallons water per half gallon concentrate, so with a half gallon water and the concentrate , i use the extra for topping off, today i bottled 30 bottles of skeeter pee port, going to bottle 60 bottles tomorrow of my variant DDDB, can't wait to try it, i'd never got around before to trying DDDB, but after reading his post, and his free will of using most any of 3 types i thought that that should be good,,, i have 3-6's of banana, 2-6's of strawberry and 4-6's of elderberry/blackberry all of which will bulk age for a couple years, and from the way my black elderberry bushes look i hope to have 6 or 7, 6's of elderberry, for long term bulk aging, my plants are loaded, oh and i have 3 more 6's of skeeter pee to bottle but i ran out of 190 proof ever
clear or PGA, , unlike most i use 6 quarts of lemon concentrate per 6 gallons water for my skeeter pee come bottling time i put a fifth of 190 proof PGA in a 6&1/2 carboy k-meta and 6 gallons skeeter pee, back sweeten to 1.040, taste just like lemonade but kicks like a mule, the meds i'm on make me a insomniac so skeeter pee port puts me down for the night, well most nights anyway,
dawg


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> @hounddawg, I saw a while back you started a sour cherry blend as your first Dragon Blood. Besides the saskatoons I picked last year, I got 11 lbs of Evans cherries from my neighbour's tree from just the branches that were hanging over the fence into my yard. I think the Evans cherry was developed locally. It's about the only cherry that will grow in our central Alberta climate, and it grows *very* well, producing a HUGE amount of cherries. They are sour, but not extremely so, and almost sweet when very ripe, sweet enough to eat right off the tree. But nothing like an actual sweet cherry. I had 4 lbs of frozen fresh blueberries in the freezer, and since l was less sure of how the cherries would ferment than the saskatoons, I added them to the Cherry Dragon Blood (still trying to come up with a good name). I see lots of comments about how bananas can help and we always have frozen bananas on hand for banana bread, so I threw a few of those in as well. It is fermenting almost identically to my Toon Blood though very slightly slower. It's a little darker which surprises me, and currently tastes very similar too, again, which surprises me. I can't wait until I can start clearing it. Dragon Blood is soooooo beautiful when clear! What quantities did you use in yours?
> View attachment 62898


yep it's been aging all this time so much for a quick wine, shucks my skeeter pee has set longer, up there is it like here the more wine you make the me people wanna be friends,, lol thanks for telling and showing what them were. i'd never heard of them before, they look tasty,i got a few mulberry trees, but between the birds and me eating them i've never made wine from them, dang them look nice,,, 
dawg


----------



## hounddawg

RocketBee said:


> In my locale, it is a bad year for fruit tree production. I have two cherry trees with about a dozen cherries between them...what few apple blossoms I got were polished off by the velociraptors (aka mule deer) who made it through my Jurassic Park fence. The one item that is quite prolific this year is my one Red Lake Currant bush. I bet I have about 30 lbs. of currants ripening on it. Has anyone done a currant version of DDDB? Red Lake Currants are VERY tart, not sweet like a lot of black currants. Maybe it would be a replacement for the lemon juice? I'm going outside to cover my currant bush with a bird net before they maul the only produce I have at this point.


hey rocketbee where is your local?
dawg


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> ... up there is it like here the more wine you make the me people wanna be friends,, lol
> dawg


@hounddawg - I don't know... I haven't made enough to give much away -- probably only about 2 or 3 batches a year since I started a few years ago. (Maybe *THAT's* why I don't have many friends! LOL). Until last year it's all been kit wines, which I probably gift a few per batch. I've only completed 1 batch of DDDB, and I drank that all myself. Maybe if I give my neighbour a couple bottles so they can see what their cherries are REALLY good for, I'll get some from their side of the fence this year!


----------



## Darrell Hawley

hounddawg said:


> yep it's been aging all this time so much for a quick wine, shucks my skeeter pee has set longer, up there is it like here the more wine you make the me people wanna be friends,, lol thanks for telling and showing what them were. i'd never heard of them before, they look tasty,i got a few mulberry trees, but between the birds and me eating them i've never made wine from them, dang them look nice,,,
> dawg


Mulberry trees are nice, never had enough to make wine either. BUT the birds eating the mulberries and the purple poop on my white siding doesn't look that great.


----------



## RocketBee

@Darrell Hawley a bird net over the tree could help though they are a bit cumbersome to handle.

@hounddawg Colorado, east of Denver though can still see the front range of the Rocky Mountains. It's a semi-arid region. Difficult to grow stuff here...you can do everything right and the critters eat up your stuff (rabbits, squirrels, mule deer and birds). What the critters don't get, the late freezes in the middle of May will take care of. If something else survives all of that...then there are the hailstorms in Springtime. It's definitely a challenge. The bees are struggling to find nectar to fill my honey supers too. Rough year. Oh, and if that wasn't enough look what my lovely bride found in one of our trees this week:


----------



## hounddawg

RocketBee said:


> @Darrell Hawley a bird net over the tree could help though they are a bit cumbersome to handle.
> 
> @hounddawg Colorado, east of Denver though can still see the front range of the Rocky Mountains. It's a semi-arid region. Difficult to grow stuff here...you can do everything right and the critters eat up your stuff (rabbits, squirrels, mule deer and birds). What the critters don't get, the late freezes in the middle of May will take care of. If something else survives all of that...then there are the hailstorms in Springtime. It's definitely a challenge. The bees are struggling to find nectar to fill my honey supers too. Rough year. Oh, and if that wasn't enough look what my lovely bride found in one of our trees this week: View attachment 62914


dang egg thief and chicken killer, i hope you popped it,
dawg


----------



## MustyMike

Just pitched the yeast in my 6g batch of DB last night. Came home to find her bubbling like mad already. Gonna be a good batch I can feel it! Also racked my strawberry/banana and degassed then added bentonite(damn my shoulder hurts from all the stirring )I can see it clearing already. I can taste good wine on the horizon


----------



## hounddawg

MustyMike said:


> Just pitched the yeast in my 6g batch of DB last night. Came home to find her bubbling like mad already. Gonna be a good batch I can feel it! Also racked my strawberry/banana and degassed then added bentonite(damn my shoulder hurts from all the stirring )I can see it clearing already. I can taste good wine on the horizon


you are stirring your must correctly ain't you, you tie a boat paddle to your light fixture with just enough string so the paddle sits just inside your must, then go outside grab the corner of your home and run in circles, i messed mine up,,, i ran in squares, 
Dawg
PS
good thing i 'drink,


----------



## MustyMike

hounddawg said:


> you are stirring your must correctly ain't you, you tie a boat paddle to your light fixture with just enough string so the paddle sits just inside your must, then go outside grab the corner of your home and run in circles, i messed mine up,,, i ran in squares,
> Dawg
> PS
> good thing i 'drink,


Got a good laugh outta me dawg.  the k1v I used ran her up a little higher than I thought lol after one glass I couldn’t run if I was wet ink on dry paper


----------



## hounddawg

MustyMike said:


> Got a good laugh outta me dawg.  the k1v I used ran her up a little higher than I thought lol after one glass I couldn’t run if I was wet ink on dry paper


then i've done my good deed for the day, a lot on here are wound to tight, life's short, i can make wine and joke all at the same time, now you got me grinning, , yup i only keep 2 yeasts, K1V-1116 & EC-1118, as long as you use plenty of fruit it tastes great and ambushes you all at once,,,
dawg


----------



## DizzyIzzy

MustyMike said:


> Just pitched the yeast in my 6g batch of DB last night. Came home to find her bubbling like mad already. Gonna be a good batch I can feel it! Also racked my strawberry/banana and degassed then added bentonite(damn my shoulder hurts from all the stirring )I can see it clearing already. I can taste good wine on the horizon


Mike, Take the plunge and get an AIO. In the meantime, try degassing using a* large whisk*. It degases quicker and much easier than stirring........................Dizzy


----------



## hounddawg

DizzyIzzy said:


> Mike, Take the plunge and get an AIO. In the meantime, try degassing using a* large whisk*. It degases quicker and much easier than stirring........................Dizzy


Amen to that,
Dawg


----------



## MustyMike

DizzyIzzy said:


> Mike, Take the plunge and get an AIO. In the meantime, try degassing using a* large whisk*. It degases quicker and much easier than stirring........................Dizzy


Duly noted! 


DizzyIzzy said:


> Mike, Take the plunge and get an AIO. In the meantime, try degassing using a* large whisk*. It degases quicker and much easier than stirring........................Dizzy


Duly noted! I will eventually splurge on one. I have a degasser that goes into a drill, however the drill I borrowed from my buddy got about 1/4 of the way through the process and died


----------



## MustyMike

Just wanted to update, I’m sitting in my kitchen with my fermentation bucket and I would swear up and down it is raining outside... it’s just the DB fermenting lol down almost .2 sg in a day. The wife is not fond of the smell...


----------



## DizzyIzzy

MustyMike said:


> Just wanted to update, I’m sitting in my kitchen with my fermentation bucket and I would swear up and down it is raining outside... it’s just the DB fermenting lol down almost .2 sg in a day. The wife is not fond of the smell...


I love that sound, AND the smell.......................Dizzy


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

MustyMike said:


> Just wanted to update, I’m sitting in my kitchen with my fermentation bucket and I would swear up and down it is raining outside... it’s just the DB fermenting lol down almost .2 sg in a day. The wife is not fond of the smell...



I think the DB smells awesome when it first start to ferment. Then as you progress, it definitely goes through a period of just smelling yeasty or alcoholly (I'm sure there's no such word but...). When it's all clear and ready to bottle, it smells yummy again!


----------



## KCCam

*TOON BLOOD*
That baby finished fermenting* real slow. *So did my sour cherry & blueberry, almost exactly the same. I had to keep reminding myself of all the times I’ve told others to just be patient... But 0.001 or less drop every day for 10 days? Oh well, I finally added the K-meta and Sorbate, and degassed (man, Siri doesn’t know ANY of these words ). Thanks again Steve, @vacuumpumpman ! It took a day, but you can get almost every bubble out under vacuum. A day after adding DualFine, my top-up vessels are perfectly clear, 


and the carboys aren’t far behind.


----------



## KCCam

That’s a better look at the difference in colour between my Toon Blood (9.7 lbs Saskatoon, also known as Juneberry or Serviceberry) on the left and Berry Cherry Dragon Blood (4.2 lbs Blueberry & 11 lbs Sour Cherry) on the right. It's hard to see in the thumbnail, but the Cherry is more like a pale orange than red. The saskatoons and cherries are home-grown. I also had a few lbs of store-bought blueberries in the freezer I wanted to use. I figured the cherries would benefit more from the blueberries than the saskatoons, even though there were more cherries by weight. I would say I was right. This year I think I'll try one with just the cherries to see how much difference the blueberries made. The cherry one is a little lighter on flavour than the saskatoon one too.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> View attachment 63251
> 
> That’s a better look at the difference in colour between my Toon Blood (9.7 lbs Saskatoon, also known as Juneberry or Serviceberry) on the left and Berry Cherry Dragon Blood (4.2 lbs Blueberry & 11 lbs Sour Cherry) on the right. It's hard to see in the thumbnail, but the Cherry is more like a pale orange than red. The saskatoons and cherries are home-grown. I also had a few lbs of store-bought blueberries in the freezer I wanted to use. I figured the cherries would benefit more from the blueberries than the saskatoons, even though there were more cherries by weight. I would say I was right. This year I think I'll try one with just the cherries to see how much difference the blueberries made. The cherry one is a little lighter on flavour than the saskatoon one too.


was checking our your colors, i'll be bottling my first dragon blood, here in about a week, tart/sour cherry, black raspberry, and blueberry, all the wines i;ve made from scratch, but after finally reading the DDDB thread, and him saying that any combo was fine, i did a little reading, i've made cherries, but black raspberry and blueberry i've never made. so i went with if it sounds good ,,do it,, lol, i've done many different fruits and berries that are local to me, but this is going to be an adventure, got 2-6's of that and a 6, that's half them 3 and half strawberry, 
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> View attachment 63251
> 
> That’s a better look at the difference in colour between my Toon Blood (9.7 lbs Saskatoon, also known as Juneberry or Serviceberry) on the left and Berry Cherry Dragon Blood (4.2 lbs Blueberry & 11 lbs Sour Cherry) on the right. It's hard to see in the thumbnail, but the Cherry is more like a pale orange than red. The saskatoons and cherries are home-grown. I also had a few lbs of store-bought blueberries in the freezer I wanted to use. I figured the cherries would benefit more from the blueberries than the saskatoons, even though there were more cherries by weight. I would say I was right. This year I think I'll try one with just the cherries to see how much difference the blueberries made. The cherry one is a little lighter on flavour than the saskatoon one too.


colors are good, i've heard of juneberry, and heard of saskatoon, but never seen any in my neck of the woods.
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

Pretty sure they're just different names for the same berry. I Googled it, so it must be true. I've always heard them referred to as saskatoon berries up here in Canada. Good luck with your first Dragon Blood. I hope you like it. I'm sure you will. I grow a few hot pepper plants every year. Maybe I should throw a ghost pepper into a batch. What do you think?


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Pretty sure they're just different names for the same berry. I Googled it, so it must be true. I've always heard them referred to as saskatoon berries up here in Canada. Good luck with your first Dragon Blood. I hope you like it. I'm sure you will. I grow a few hot pepper plants every year. Maybe I should throw a ghost pepper into a batch. What do you think?


oh man, you're a cool dude, i cant believe this, hehe, my great grandma started me on hot peppers when i was 4, i got on the table, ghost, scorpion, and carolina reapers, my nephew told me a couple days ago they got a new worlds hottest, reapers are 2.5 million scofield heat units, on here most don't joke around,, life's to short, to not enjoy. you have a sense of humor, make country wines, and i'll be danged , a true pepper eater, a person worth their salt, heck now i'm laughing,,,
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Pretty sure they're just different names for the same berry. I Googled it, so it must be true. I've always heard them referred to as saskatoon berries up here in Canada. Good luck with your first Dragon Blood. I hope you like it. I'm sure you will. I grow a few hot pepper plants every year. Maybe I should throw a ghost pepper into a batch. What do you think?


i ain't ever done any pepper wine, i'll mull that over, my country wines i like sweet and very fruity or bold berry flavorful, and yep i'm ready to try them dragons bloods, i figure i'll make some straight black raspberry, welp i'm outta here for now, have a good one man,
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> oh man, you're a cool dude


Ya, that's what they tell me! 


hounddawg said:


> on here most don't joke around


I don't know, I think you're being a little harsh. I've seen lots of jocularity! Did you catch the Cork Soaker SNL skit recently posted on another thread?


hounddawg said:


> i got on the table, ghost, scorpion, and carolina reapers


I've tried to grow scorpion and reaper. I get flowers, but have never had one bear any fruit. Very short growing season here, you have to start seeds in, like January, or buy the plants at a greenhouse already started. If you put them out before the end of May, you risk having them snowed on.


hounddawg said:


> a true pepper eater


Uh, umm, well, not quite a pepper *eater.* Have you seen the videos of people actually eating a Carolina Reaper? Not me, no thanks! But we make our own salsa that I can make a few jars nice and hot for me, and I dry the peppers and put them in a pepper mill to "enhance" whatever I chose (everything). I don't think I would actually enjoy eating anything much hotter than a jalapeno (sorry, am I not a cool dude now?).


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KCCam said:


> View attachment 63251
> 
> That’s a better look at the difference in colour between my Toon Blood (9.7 lbs Saskatoon, also known as Juneberry or Serviceberry) on the left and Berry Cherry Dragon Blood (4.2 lbs Blueberry & 11 lbs Sour Cherry) on the right. It's hard to see in the thumbnail, but the Cherry is more like a pale orange than red. The saskatoons and cherries are home-grown. I also had a few lbs of store-bought blueberries in the freezer I wanted to use. I figured the cherries would benefit more from the blueberries than the saskatoons, even though there were more cherries by weight. I would say I was right. This year I think I'll try one with just the cherries to see how much difference the blueberries made. The cherry one is a little lighter on flavour than the saskatoon one too.



I have yet to try making a cherry wine but it's on my to do list. We bought a cherry tree at Costco this spring but unfortunately it didn't live and so my dream of having my own is going to be on hold for now. 

I've never heard Juneberries called Saskatoons. I have a tree in the backyard and used them in one of my wines a couple years ago (with some other fruit) but I guess I wasn't impressed enough to try again. Now you've got me wondering whether I need to give them another chance 

The color on both batches is lovely. Which one do you like the best?


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Ya, that's what they tell me!
> 
> I don't know, I think you're being a little harsh. I've seen lots of jocularity! Did you catch the Cork Soaker SNL skit recently posted on another thread?
> 
> I've tried to grow scorpion and reaper. I get flowers, but have never had one bear any fruit. Very short growing season here, you have to start seeds in, like January, or buy the plants at a greenhouse already started. If you put them out before the end of May, you risk having them snowed on.
> 
> Uh, umm, well, not quite a pepper *eater.* Have you seen the videos of people actually eating a Carolina Reaper? Not me, no thanks! But we make our own salsa that I can make a few jars nice and hot for me, and I dry the peppers and put them in a pepper mill to "enhance" whatever I chose (everything). I don't think I would actually enjoy eating anything much hotter than a jalapeno (sorry, am I not a cool dude now?).


naw you're still cool,, lol
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> The color on both batches is lovely. Which one do you like the best?


Ahh, there’s the rub. I do not have a refined palate, nor the vocabulary. To me they are quite similar. The Saskatoon DB (SDB) finished at 0.988 & the Cherry Blueberry DB (CBDB) finished at 0.990. Dry, the CBDB has a slight sweetness to it and is a milder taste. I suspect the blueberries contributed to the colour and taste more than the cherries in it, even though there’s almost 3 times as many cherries by weight. The SDB has a little stronger flavour, more sour, with a hint of bitterness. I think I like it better. I’m doing backsweetening tests and the sugar softens that a bit, and of course brings the berry flavour out. But I can’t decide how much sugar I like best — they all taste so good. I’ll have to do a bunch more sampling.


----------



## KDav

Hi all. I bottled my batch over the weekend but it seems I couldn't get it as clear as what it should be. It is clearer in the glass than what this bottle looks like. This is 3 months with racking once a month, and treated with bentonite. The only noteable difference in method was that I went a bit heavier on fruit per litre and added a large bunch of crushed muscadine grapes. It tastes great but this is the first time I've not been able to clear a wine? Any help or advice for future batches would be great!


----------



## avan

Just wanted to share. I’ve made 2 batches of the original dragon blood recipe. The first batch I had to top up with a finished white Zinfandel due to headspace. The second batch I calculated the headspace perfectly. Well the second batch was low in body and mouthfeel in our opinion. So we did some taste testing and added about 2 tsp of finished white Zinfandel per 4 oz and it really gives the wine the body (I think) it needs. So we ended up topping up our 5 gallon batch (in secondary) With a 1.5 L bottle of white Zinfandel. It’s excellent. But I think any white you love would work too. For my next batch I may add white grape juice in place of some of the water instead of adding finished wine to top up. We shall see. It’s a great recipe to play with and really make your own. Foolproof!


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KCCam said:


> I’ll have to do a bunch more sampling.



I call it quality control tasting.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KDav said:


> Hi all. I bottled my batch over the weekend but it seems I couldn't get it as clear as what it should be. It is clearer in the glass than what this bottle looks like. This is 3 months with racking once a month, and treated with bentonite. The only noteable difference in method was that I went a bit heavier on fruit per litre and added a large bunch of crushed muscadine grapes. It tastes great but this is the first time I've not been able to clear a wine? Any help or advice for future batches would be great!



I've not had a lot of luck with bentonite so always use SuperKleer (also known as Dualfine) to clear my wines. I then filter it before bottling using the Vinbrite filter. It's not a fancy system, is inexpensive and does an adequate job... it help gives the wine a bit of polishing.


----------



## KCCam

KDav said:


> The only noteable difference in method was that I went a bit heavier on fruit per litre and added a large bunch of crushed muscadine grapes.


With more fruit, it could possibly be pectic haze. What type of fruit? I’ve read that pectic enzyme (PE) will not affect the taste at all and is safe to use as much as required. It helped my first batch of DB, and I put double the recipe amount in my current two batches due to using fresh fruit. With DualFine they’ve cleared in 2 days! Next time it won’t clear like that I would try a dose to see if it helps. I’ve also read starch haze can be a problem with some fruit, like bananas.


----------



## KCCam

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I've not had a lot of luck with bentonite so always use SuperKleer (also known as Dualfine) to clear my wines.


It sounds like you meant to say “no luck with bentonite so always use SuperKleer”. Or do you mean what you say? All the kits I’ve ever done use both: bentonite up front (more effective/efficient during primary fermentation when the active yeast has everything in suspension), and DualFine/SuperKleer at the end, before bottling.


----------



## KCCam

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I call it quality control tasting.


Hahaha, after enough Quality Control, I call it whatever it wants me to!


----------



## sour_grapes

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I've not had a lot of luck with bentonite so always use SuperKleer (also known as Dualfine) to clear my wines.





KCCam said:


> It sounds like you meant to say “no luck with bentonite so always use SuperKleer”. Or do you mean what you say?



Umm, evidently she meant BOTH of the things that you suggest she may have meant.


----------



## KCCam

sour_grapes said:


> Umm, evidently she meant BOTH of the things that you suggest she may have meant.


OOPS.  I’m *sure *I read that 5 times before I posted. Did *not *see the “not”. Lol. Maybe I’ve been Quality Controlling a little too much. Hic. 
... hang on, I think I need to try one with a little less sugar...


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KCCam said:


> OOPS.  I’m *sure *I read that 5 times before I posted. Did *not *see the “not”. Lol. Maybe I’ve been Quality Controlling a little too much. Hic.
> ... hang on, I think I need to try one with a little less sugar...


 . Well, I could have used better English, so maybe it's me who's been quality controlling too much this morning


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KDav said:


> Hi all. I bottled my batch over the weekend but it seems I couldn't get it as clear as what it should be. It is clearer in the glass than what this bottle looks like. This is 3 months with racking once a month, and treated with bentonite. The only noteable difference in method was that I went a bit heavier on fruit per litre and added a large bunch of crushed muscadine grapes. It tastes great but this is the first time I've not been able to clear a wine? Any help or advice for future batches would be great!



This is my lime Skeeter Pee 4 days after adding SuperKleer.


----------



## KCCam

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> . Well, I could have used better English, so maybe it's me who's been quality controlling too much this morning


Nope, your grammar ain't the problem. Perfectly fine, in fact exactly how I would've said it. _I've just not had a lot of luck with_ my aging eyes.


----------



## KCCam

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> This is my lime Skeeter Pee 4 days after adding SuperKleer.
> View attachment 63261


Oooo, nice! I see someone else must have had a Skeeter Pee Volcano when degassing. Or am I wrong? Anyway, I like your overflow bucket. Smart. The only batch I've done so far I had on the kitchen table, still in primary. I gave it a 2 second burst with my drill whip (which I had been using fine until now), and it bubbled over the pail, onto the table and the floor like my daughter's baking soda and vinegar volcano I helped her with when she was young. It's one of those times when all you can do is stare at it and go "oh, sh*#($ttt"! I'm sure glad it was SP and not Dragon Blood. I am *much *more careful now. lol


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KCCam said:


> Oooo, nice! I see someone else must have had a Skeeter Pee Volcano when degassing. Or am I wrong? Anyway, I like your overflow bucket. Smart. The only batch I've done so far I had on the kitchen table, still in primary. I gave it a 2 second burst with my drill whip (which I had been using fine until now), and it bubbled over the pail, onto the table and the floor like my daughter's baking soda and vinegar volcano I helped her with when she was young. It's one of those times when all you can do is stare at it and go "oh, sh*#($ttt"! I'm sure glad it was SP and not Dragon Blood. I am *much *more careful now. lol



My carboys are all in baskets now because I once had one break and spill 6 gallons of wine all over my floor. I didn't know whether to cry or grab a straw. It took me HOURS to clean it up


----------



## KCCam

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My carboys are all in baskets now because I once had one break and spill 6 gallons of wine all over my floor. I didn't know whether to cry or grab a straw. It took me HOURS to clean it up
> View attachment 63262


*OUCH!* What caused it? Did you accidentally hit it with something?


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KCCam said:


> *OUCH!* What caused it? Did you accidentally hit it with something?



I'll message you...


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Oooo, nice! I see someone else must have had a Skeeter Pee Volcano when degassing. Or am I wrong? Anyway, I like your overflow bucket. Smart. The only batch I've done so far I had on the kitchen table, still in primary. I gave it a 2 second burst with my drill whip (which I had been using fine until now), and it bubbled over the pail, onto the table and the floor like my daughter's baking soda and vinegar volcano I helped her with when she was young. It's one of those times when all you can do is stare at it and go "oh, sh*#($ttt"! I'm sure glad it was SP and not Dragon Blood. I am *much *more careful now. lol


i use cooking sheet pans, a full sheet holds 2 carboys. but a while back i had a 14 gallon fermenter too full, filled the room, ran down the the hall and got to carpet at the edge of living room, since then, i have used only my 30 gallon brutte, i got 6 or 7 more just been to busy/LAZY to brave the copper heads to bring in 2 more from my tool storage.
Dawg


----------



## KDav

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> I've not had a lot of luck with bentonite so always use SuperKleer (also known as Dualfine) to clear my wines. I then filter it before bottling using the Vinbrite filter. It's not a fancy system, is inexpensive and does an adequate job... it help gives the wine a bit of polishing.



Thanks for the reply. I've never ysed it before, I've not had an issue clearing wine before and only used it as a last ditch effort to clear it. I've never heard SuperKleer been called Dualfine which might help me, I can't find a lot of the American branded stuff here in Aus.



KCCam said:


> With more fruit, it could possibly be pectic haze. What type of fruit? I’ve read that pectic enzyme (PE) will not affect the taste at all and is safe to use as much as required. It helped my first batch of DB, and I put double the recipe amount in my current two batches due to using fresh fruit. With DualFine they’ve cleared in 2 days! Next time it won’t clear like that I would try a dose to see if it helps. I’ve also read starch haze can be a problem with some fruit, like bananas.



I used around 1.5x the fruit in Dave's recipe and also used 1.5x pectinase for that reason. I tried cold crashing, everything I could think of and still couldn't get it clear. Oh well, as I said it tastes good and I couldn't find any corkable bottles due to covid so they will need to be drunk sooner rather than later.


----------



## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> *TOON BLOOD*
> That baby finished fermenting* real slow. *So did my sour cherry & blueberry, almost exactly the same. I had to keep reminding myself of all the times I’ve told others to just be patient... But 0.001 or less drop every day for 10 days? Oh well, I finally added the K-meta and Sorbate, and degassed (man, Siri doesn’t know ANY of these words ). Thanks again Steve, @vacuumpumpman ! It took a day, but you can get almost every bubble out under vacuum. A day after adding DualFine, my top-up vessels are perfectly clear,
> View attachment 63245
> 
> and the carboys aren’t far behind.
> View attachment 63243
> 
> View attachment 63245


Those are some interesting bottles.........................Dizzy


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## robert81650

Clear as a bell...................


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## KCCam

DizzyIzzy said:


> Those are some interesting bottles.........................Dizzy


You're referring to the rectangular ones, I suppose. Yes, I like them. It's the only reason I drink Kirkland (Costco) spiced rum! *(NOT! haha). *I think the bottles are quite attractive with the etched ship. 1.75 L, and a mouth that will take a #6 1/2 bung to air lock or vacuum. I use them for top-up when there's not enough for a 1 gallon jug. I've considered bottling my Dragon Blood into some like DangerDave does with 1 gallon jugs to keep in the fridge, and just using the original caps, but bottles are easier to handle. We'll see. I was also considering using wine boxes, but again bottles are just handier.


----------



## KCCam

robert81650 said:


> Clear as a bell...................


Yes, and that's *1 day *after adding SuperKleer. (Well, mine is called Claro K.C. and the package says add the Chitosan 24 hours after the Kieselsol, so it's 2 days after the first part, 1 day after the second part.) I really think my AIO vacuum pump helps a lot. It lets me get a perfectly degassed wine. At the beginning, just a few inches Hg makes it foam like crazy, but the more CO2 that comes out, the more vacuum I can apply, until barely a single bubble comes out with 22" vacuum. After that, I had 1/2" of crystal clear wine in those bottles before I even added the SuperKleer. I've done my backsweetening tests and it's time to start sanitizing some bottles. Woo hoo!


----------



## KCCam

That was my Cherry Blueberry DB a couple days ago. Yesterday while backsweetening I accidentally dropped the racking cane Into the carboy while transferring to the primary for adding sugar. I figured I was going to have to let it clear again anyway, so went ahead and added the sugar. Now it looks like this. Good news is the Toon Blood is still Crystal clear! The bottles in front are from the top-up jug and a Cab Merlot kit I did.


----------



## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> It sounds like you meant to say “no luck with bentonite so always use SuperKleer”. Or do you mean what you say? All the kits I’ve ever done use both: bentonite up front (more effective/efficient during primary fermentation when the active yeast has everything in suspension), and DualFine/SuperKleer at the end, before bottling.


KC, how much Bentonite do you use up front?....................Dizzy


----------



## KCCam

DizzyIzzy said:


> KC, how much Bentonite do you use up front?....................Dizzy


My only experience with it is from the kits I’ve made. They come with a 5 gram package, which is about a tsp.


----------



## hounddawg

i reckon i figured wrong on my DDDB variant, black raspberry, blueberry, sour cherry, it clearly ain't a good choice for a quick drinker, i was going to bottle 3 carboys today, i bottled one carboy and of course tasted it, i hope bulk aging the other two will help, what's bad is each of them should make a killer wine on their own, i know for a fact the tart/sour cherry does, and i hear the the other2 do as well, and yes i taste all the way thru on my wines, so i do know what to expect on my finished wines, but my variant said it might very well be blah ,,,,
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> but my variant said it might very well be blah ,,,,


I’ll take it! I’m sure one man’s blah is another man’s treasure.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I’ll take it! I’m sure one man’s blah is another man’s treasure.


hehe,,, sad your outta the states, i think my problem is all 3 fruits each are bold flavors, i'm still hoping they will blend with time, but not a clue on what it will be,,,,
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

Saskatoon Dragon Blood, Cherry/Blueberry Dragon Blood, and a Cab/Merlot kit. I wonder if @hounddawg recognizes the bottles the DB is in?


----------



## akron

I posted this question in the wrong forum earlier, so reposting it here where it should have. My first DB wine and I am using some wild alaska blueberries that I had in refrig instead of costco fruits. Following recipe exactly. Initial SG 1.080, temps 72-74. It got to 1.066 and stuck there. Some thoughts were low ph but I can’t measure it. Since then I timidly added one tsp of calcium carbonate which I had around. I also added one tsp of yeast nutrient. The ferment seems to have restarted. Now I wish I had only added one thing at a time! Overnight it went from 1.066 to 1.064. Any ideas of which addititive started it up again? It is probably not enough for 6 gal, so I’ll watch and see if it stalls again, then just add ONE of the ingredients.
In the meanwhile I’ll look for a inexpensive pH meter...Ideas? I have paper, but can’t read them with this dark wine.
Thanks.


----------



## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> Saskatoon Dragon Blood, Cherry/Blueberry Dragon Blood, and a Cab/Merlot kit. I wonder if @hounddawg recognizes the bottles the DB is in?
> View attachment 63600


Nice looking collection. Are the bottles on the left screw tops? That quantity should last for a while LOL...............................Dizzy


----------



## KCCam

akron said:


> I posted this question in the wrong forum earlier, so reposting it here where it should have. My first DB wine and I am using some wild alaska blueberries that I had in refrig instead of costco fruits. Following recipe exactly. Initial SG 1.080, temps 72-74. It got to 1.066 and stuck there. Some thoughts were low ph but I can’t measure it. Since then I timidly added one tsp of calcium carbonate which I had around. I also added one tsp of yeast nutrient. The ferment seems to have restarted. Now I wish I had only added one thing at a time! Overnight it went from 1.066 to 1.064. Any ideas of which addititive started it up again? It is probably not enough for 6 gal, so I’ll watch and see if it stalls again, then just add ONE of the ingredients.
> In the meanwhile I’ll look for a inexpensive pH meter...Ideas? I have paper, but can’t read them with this dark wine.
> Thanks.


Yah, I saw your post there, hopefully you’ll get some experienced help here. I’ve read lots, but not too much actual experience. If I *had *to guess, my guess would be pH. Lots (not all) of people have trouble fermenting Lemon. Did you use the “Real Lemon” brand? That would remove one variable. Blueberries also have high acidity (low pH), and maybe your Alaskan variety is even worse. I thought maybe bananas or raisins might be less acidic, but I really don’t know. I (our you) would have to research it a bit. You might try searching for problems fermenting Blueberry wine. 
As for a pH meter, I started looking, but didn’t follow through. Make sure you read the specs. 0.1 accuracy is just barely enough since you’re dealing with a range of about 0.6 I believe. I know lots of people use them so you should get some good advice. What’s your budget?


----------



## KCCam

DizzyIzzy said:


> Nice looking collection. Are the bottles on the left screw tops? That quantity should last for a while LOL...............................Dizzy


Yes, they’re Everclear bottles. The reason I figure the screw tops will be OK is that I *don’t *expect they’ll last for a while. Lol. They’re good enough for Everclear, my DB should be OK for 2 or 3 months! I did cork a few so I could see how it ages.


----------



## KCCam

DizzyIzzy said:


> Nice looking collection. Are the bottles on the left screw tops? That quantity should last for a while LOL...............................Dizzy


I was a little unsure about posting the picture, thinking I might get lynched for not corking. But they’re kept cool in my garage, much easier to open, free, and reusable! To be honest I could probably leave the bottles open for the length of time they’ll be around! Lol


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Yes, they’re Everclear bottles. The reason I figure the screw tops will be OK is that I *don’t *expect they’ll last for a while. Lol. They’re good enough for Everclear, my DB should be OK for 2 or 3 months! I did cork a few so I could see how it ages.


ebay of amazon you should get a PH meter for about $20 or so, plut get a couple three pouches of buffer solution, i use a 4.1% solution, since i'm looking for a PH of 3.1 to 3.8 more or less , but hoping for 3.4 to 3.6
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> ebay of amazon you should get a PH meter for about $20 or so, plut get a couple three pouches of buffer solution, i use a 4.1% solution, since i'm looking for a PH of 3.1 to 3.8 more or less , but hoping for 3.4 to 3.6
> Dawg


Maybe I need to look harder. For anything more accurate than 0.1 I was seeing more like $100.


----------



## cmason1957

You might consider this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTS1AE...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I have the Milwaukee 102 it costs about $100. https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-MW...eywords=Milwaukee+mw102&qid=1595029236&sr=8-2


----------



## KCCam

cmason1957 said:


> You might consider this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTS1AE...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> I have the Milwaukee 102 it costs about $100. https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-MW...eywords=Milwaukee+mw102&qid=1595029236&sr=8-2


I think I saw your recommendation of the MW102 not too long ago. That’s what started me looking because I could see it being an important tool now that I’m starting to get into fermenting my own fresh fruit. It’s about $200 Canadian including shipping. I think that’s when I stopped looking. Lol. But do you think the first link would be any good? I mean, I could afford $20, just thought maybe you get what you pay for, and that’s a huge difference in price.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I think I saw your recommendation of the MW102 not too long ago. That’s what started me looking because I could see it being an important tool now that I’m starting to get into fermenting my own fresh fruit. It’s about $200 Canadian including shipping. I think that’s when I stopped looking. Lol. But do you think the first link would be any good? I mean, I could afford $20, just thought maybe you get what you pay for, and that’s a huge difference in price.


fudge brother, $200 you could make wine in space, i reckon these that make fancy grape wines, whew, but a no pailet hack like me,  i'll stay on the porch.
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

cmason1957 said:


> You might consider this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTS1AE...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> I have the Milwaukee 102 it costs about $100. https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-MW...eywords=Milwaukee+mw102&qid=1595029236&sr=8-2


n
that looks about like mine, i figure that and some 4 buffer solution is all i'll ever need,..
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I think I saw your recommendation of the MW102 not too long ago. That’s what started me looking because I could see it being an important tool now that I’m starting to get into fermenting my own fresh fruit. It’s about $200 Canadian including shipping. I think that’s when I stopped looking. Lol. But do you think the first link would be any good? I mean, I could afford $20, just thought maybe you get what you pay for, and that’s a huge difference in price.


it keeps mine tasting good, just my 2 cents,,,
Dawg


----------



## akron

KCCam said:


> Yah, I saw your post there, hopefully you’ll get some experienced help here. I’ve read lots, but not too much actual experience. If I *had *to guess, my guess would be pH. Lots (not all) of people have trouble fermenting Lemon. Did you use the “Real Lemon” brand? That would remove one variable. Blueberries also have high acidity (low pH), and maybe your Alaskan variety is even worse. I thought maybe bananas or raisins might be less acidic, but I really don’t know. I (our you) would have to research it a bit. You might try searching for problems fermenting Blueberry wine.
> As for a pH meter, I started looking, but didn’t follow through. Make sure you read the specs. 0.1 accuracy is just barely enough since you’re dealing with a range of about 0.6 I believe. I know lots of people use them so you should get some good advice. What’s your budget?


I did use “real lemon”. I did my first skeeter pee earlier and had great results fermenting. A bit gassy though! Finally settled down. DB would have probably worked fine too, except the blueberries swap. Guess I need a pH measuring device. I gave up winemaking a decade or so ago due to lots of bad wines. I’m inspired by this forum that maybe i can make some great ones once in a while!


----------



## akron

KCCam said:


> I think I saw your recommendation of the MW102 not too long ago. That’s what started me looking because I could see it being an important tool now that I’m starting to get into fermenting my own fresh fruit. It’s about $200 Canadian including shipping. I think that’s when I stopped looking. Lol. But do you think the first link would be any good? I mean, I could afford $20, just thought maybe you get what you pay for, and that’s a huge difference in price.
> [/QUOTe
> 
> 
> cmason1957 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might consider this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTS1AE...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> I have the Milwaukee 102 it costs about $100. https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-MW...eywords=Milwaukee+mw102&qid=1595029236&sr=8-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I may try the cheaper one just to learn what they can do for me in winemaking. Never used one or paid attention to pH before.
Click to expand...


----------



## cmason1957

KCCam said:


> I think I saw your recommendation of the MW102 not too long ago. That’s what started me looking because I could see it being an important tool now that I’m starting to get into fermenting my own fresh fruit. It’s about $200 Canadian including shipping. I think that’s when I stopped looking. Lol. But do you think the first link would be any good? I mean, I could afford $20, just thought maybe you get what you pay for, and that’s a huge difference in price.


I think I would certainly give that first one a shot. At that price, it's almost a no brainer. I would buy pure mixed up validation solution, it's just so easy to use.


----------



## G259

Could be the CC, but I like the nutrient addition as well. Good choices, trust your gut!


----------



## sour_grapes

cmason1957 said:


> You might consider this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTS1AE...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> I have the Milwaukee 102 it costs about $100. https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-MW...eywords=Milwaukee+mw102&qid=1595029236&sr=8-2



I bought a Milwaukee 101 (same as 102, but temperature correction was manual). Then wifey "borrowed" it for work, and it has never been seen again!  I then bought something like your first cheapo one.


----------



## akron

My first-ever DB is winding down now (SG 1.006) and in reading the directions it says to let this finalize in the primary bucket, then rack. I would have thought I should rack it before it totally stabilized to get it under airlock sooner for protection. Am I reading this correctly?
By the way, after my ferment stalling at 1.066 and adding a bit of yeast nutrient and a bit of calcium carbonate it took off and has been going steadily since. That worked. Since then I have ordered a pH meter to help with future batches.


----------



## KCCam

akron said:


> the directions it says to let this finalize in the primary bucket, then rack


Dragon Blood often ferments very quickly and usually not aged very long, so oxygen isn't as big of a concern. The author of the recipe @dangerdave says he ferments his 18 gallons dry in his primary Brute fermenter. Of course it doesn't hurt to rack it into a carboy at some point under 1.010, and I'm sure many do. Mine ferments slower (cold in Canada, haha), so I finish mine in glass. I don't worry much about oxidation because Dragon Blood doesn't last more than a month or two, heck most of mine don't even get corks, just stored upright in Everclear bottles with original screw caps, in my garage. I cork a few so I can taste them later, and give as gifts.


----------



## akron

Thanks! If it is as good as I hear it is, mine will go quickly too. I think I will opt for moving it into glass in a few days and watch out for overflow. Have the AIO now so that will help with racking and degasssing.
My temps in Alaska are probably close to yours since I am. coastal.


----------



## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> Yes, they’re Everclear bottles. The reason I figure the screw tops will be OK is that I *don’t *expect they’ll last for a while. Lol. They’re good enough for Everclear, my DB should be OK for 2 or 3 months! I did cork a few so I could see how it ages.


Hi again Kc, I bottled a blood orange sangria today and tried an experiment of corking "screw top" wine bottles to see if they would work/break/explode? Oddly enough, they corked just fine which was an unexpectedly pleasant surprise since I do have many screw-top wine bottles........Just thought I would share.......................Dizzy


----------



## DizzyIzzy

akron said:


> Thanks! If it is as good as I hear it is, mine will go quickly too. I think I will opt for moving it into glass in a few days and watch out for overflow. Have the AIO now so that will help with racking and degasssing.
> My temps in Alaska are probably close to yours since I am. coastal.


I just bottled today with the AIO and it worked wonderfully. I am sure you will totally enjoy the AIO as I do! (I have a nephew in Thorne Bay, are you close?)............Dizzy


----------



## BernardSmith

Interstingly, the Wine Wizard in the current Wine Maker news letter discusses the use of screw caps and the problem that once the seal has been broken air and bacteria have access to wines and beers and these two will result in spoilage. The problem is not the fact that a screw cap is involved, (when FIRST applied the gasket forms a tight seal but when first unscrewed the seal is deformed). The problem is that the screw cap is not designed to be airtight once the seal has been broken and she suggests crown caps or Grolsch-type bottles with very thick gaskets.

Obviously, it's your call but wine ain't spirits and a spirit bottled at 190 proof is not going to spoil. A wine or mead that is exposed to air will oxidize (if you are lucky) or will become vinegar if you are not. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance, as they say at the fair.


----------



## KCCam

DizzyIzzy said:


> Hi again Kc, I bottled a blood orange sangria today and tried an experiment of corking "screw top" wine bottles to see if they would work/break/explode? Oddly enough, they corked just fine which was an unexpectedly pleasant surprise since I do have many screw-top wine bottles........Just thought I would share.......................Dizzy


I cork screw-top wine bottles, *BUT *I will generally not give them to anyone. If I do, it’s with a stern warning. Bad things have happened when pulling the cork. If you use a corkscrew that distributes pressure evenly around the top of the bottle (like the double arm kind), you should be fine, but still be careful. I have never had one break. But the type of corkscrew that pries the cork out from two small points in one side (like a waiter uses) is more likely to chip or break the neck.


----------



## KCCam

BernardSmith said:


> Interstingly, the Wine Wizard in the current Wine Maker news letter discusses the use of screw caps and the problem that once the seal has been broken air and bacteria have access to wines and beers and these two will result in spoilage. The problem is not the fact that a screw cap is involved, (when FIRST applied the gasket forms a tight seal but when first unscrewed the seal is deformed). The problem is that the screw cap is not designed to be airtight once the seal has been broken and she suggests crown caps or Grolsch-type bottles with very thick gaskets.
> 
> Obviously, it's your call but wine ain't spirits and a spirit bottled at 190 proof is not going to spoil. A wine or mead that is exposed to air will oxidize (if you are lucky) or will become vinegar if you are not. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance, as they say at the fair.


Point taken, and I agree. Plus, there isn’t even a gasket in these caps. It was silly of me to equate capping a spirit to a wine anyway. But I do not expect my Dragon Blood to spoil in a month or two. If it does, I certainly only have myself to blame, and will be the first to admit I was wrong.


----------



## cmason1957

DizzyIzzy said:


> Hi again Kc, I bottled a blood orange sangria today and tried an experiment of corking "screw top" wine bottles to see if they would work/break/explode? Oddly enough, they corked just fine which was an unexpectedly pleasant surprise since I do have many screw-top wine bottles........Just thought I would share.......................Dizzy



I will give you this word of warning. It isn't the Corning that's the problem with she tops, sure the corks go in fine, they are a tiny bit wider than cork top bottles. Now look away the lip what you ate going to be putting a corkscrew to take that cork out. It is about half the width of a cork top bottle. If you take the cork out with a lever you're corkscrew, they stres more likely to break and shatter. Use a double handled corkscrew and you should be okay, but even those have been know to break. Be careful.


----------



## Yooper🍷

Posted this in other thread about DB. But didn’t get any response so thought I would post it here. 
First in my years of making wine this is my first DB - it fermenting but next to my other ferments the bubbles are huge. Is the what you observe?

Been making wine since 1978 out of everything I could find in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Chokecherries, dandelion, elderberry, cranberry, bananas just to mention a few. I just started your recipe tonight with Meijer’s triple berry blend, came up with a SG of 1.100 which should amount to 13% ABV. Smells and tastes great. Can’t wait. One of the favorite wines I’ve made is Choke Cherry so I hope we have a good harvest this fall Trying to think of what I else I could put in the straining bag. Any suggestions? I was thinking Cranberries. I think the mix would be a very blush red. If I do that I will let you know how it comes out. I also wanted to ask if you have ever used a fruit base. I have a can of elderberry fruit base. I could weigh out 6 lbs and have a go at it. What do you think about that - would it work?
Monty


----------



## RocketBee

A nice summer weekday evening project...bottling my latest batch of DB...I call it "Triple Threat" because I like basketball. Oh, and note to self: don't leave the bottling wand in a bottle and walk away, otherwise you waste a half-cup of the goods (more if your lovely bride doesn't come over and ask you why the bottle is overflowing).


----------



## KCCam

RocketBee said:


> A nice summer weekday evening project...bottling my latest batch of DB...I call it "Triple Threat" because I like basketball. Oh, and note to self: don't leave the bottling wand in a bottle and walk away, otherwise you waste a half-cup of the goods (more if your lovely bride doesn't come over and ask you why the bottle is overflowing).
> 
> 
> View attachment 64205


Ooooo, that is *such a beautiful sight! *(The bottles of DB, not the head-slapping, lol.)


----------



## KCCam

Yooper🍷 said:


> Posted this in other thread about DB. But didn’t get any response so thought I would post it here.
> First in my years of making wine this is my first DB - it fermenting but next to my other ferments the bubbles are huge. Is the what you observe?
> 
> Been making wine since 1978 out of everything I could find in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Chokecherries, dandelion, elderberry, cranberry, bananas just to mention a few. I just started your recipe tonight with Meijer’s triple berry blend, came up with a SG of 1.100 which should amount to 13% ABV. Smells and tastes great. Can’t wait. One of the favorite wines I’ve made is Choke Cherry so I hope we have a good harvest this fall Trying to think of what I else I could put in the straining bag. Any suggestions? I was thinking Cranberries. I think the mix would be a very blush red. If I do that I will let you know how it comes out. I also wanted to ask if you have ever used a fruit base. I have a can of elderberry fruit base. I could weigh out 6 lbs and have a go at it. What do you think about that - would it work?
> Monty


I’m not a DB expert, but I would think you will be getting some of them popping in here to discuss. Dragon Blood does seem to create a pretty active fermentation. I wouldn’t say the bubbles are _bigger, _but maybe more of them, especially if warm. You have to be careful not to create a volcano when stirring the must every day because of the amount of CO2 that is dissolved, especially if you use a drill attachment.

As for what you can put in the bag with the berries, the sky is the limit. I put bananas and raisins in my first one. I know, pretty boring. Others would be better at telling you what might go well with the triple berry. I think I’ve seen posts about cranberry. Have you Googled it or used the forum search?

And as for the elderberry fruit base, if you mean using 6 lbs of it instead of the berries, I would think it would be worth a try if you have the base already. Maybe someone will suggest what might go well with it, or try it alone and mix with something else after it’s done if it’s not quite what you were hoping for. If you mean instead of the lemon base, then it wouldn’t be Dragon Blood.

If you get really adventurous it might be handy to have a PH meter since some berries are a lot more acidic than others. I don’t have one yet, but that’s about to change.


----------



## Yooper🍷

ThanksKCCam
Yes, I was thinking about following the DB recipe but measuring out 6 lbs of elderberry fruit base. Stirred this morning squeezed bag and measured SG it was 1.07 so I think all is well.. Although cloudy nice color.


----------



## Yooper🍷

KCCam said:


> Ooooo, that is *such a beautiful sight! *(The bottles of DB, not the head-slapping, lol.)


That is a beautiful sight.


----------



## KCCam

Yooper🍷 said:


> ThanksKCCam
> Yes, I was thinking about following the DB recipe but measuring out 6 lbs of elderberry fruit base. Stirred this morning squeezed bag and measured SG it was 1.07 so I think all is well.. Although cloudy nice color.


So that's 2 different things, right? The batch you stirred this morning is the original triple-berry recipe. The elderberry is for a possible future batch, correct? When did you start the batch that's at 1.070?


----------



## Yooper🍷

KCCam said:


> So that's 2 different things, right? The batch you stirred this morning is the original triple-berry recipe. The elderberry is for a possible future batch, correct? When did you start the batch that's at 1.070?


Started the triple berry 2 days ago tonight around 8:00 pm. Watched it a little today and the big bubbles ar coming from around the edge of the fruit bag. Small bubbles getting caught on bag an build up until they break loose from bag. Starting to smell like wine. Yes the elderberry i will start after I get the triple berry out of primary


----------



## KCCam

Yooper🍷 said:


> Started the triple berry 2 days ago tonight around 8:00 pm. Watched it a little today and the big bubbles ar coming from around the edge of the fruit bag. Small bubbles getting caught on bag an build up until they break loose from bag. Starting to smell like wine. Yes the elderberry i will start after I get the triple berry out of primary


Yup, that sounds just like DB. It's beautiful, isn't it? I could just sit there at stare at it for hours, just like a camp fire. Ahhhhh.


----------



## Bliorg

RocketBee said:


> A nice summer weekday evening project...bottling my latest batch of DB...I call it "Triple Threat" because I like basketball. Oh, and note to self: don't leave the bottling wand in a bottle and walk away, otherwise you waste a half-cup of the goods (more if your lovely bride doesn't come over and ask you why the bottle is overflowing).


I have good luck with one of these, no overflows yet (ignore the shoes...)


----------



## Yooper🍷

It will be 5 days at 8PM since starting a triple berry DB. SG starting at 1.100
Dropped to 1.04 this morning at 72 degrees. Looking and smelling good.


----------



## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> I cork screw-top wine bottles, *BUT *I will generally not give them to anyone. If I do, it’s with a stern warning. Bad things have happened when pulling the cork. If you use a corkscrew that distributes pressure evenly around the top of the bottle (like the double arm kind), you should be fine, but still be careful. I have never had one break. But the type of corkscrew that pries the cork out from two small points in one side (like a waiter uses) is more likely to chip or break the neck.


KC........................thanks so much for that info!! We just bottled last week and have not given any away yet, but I will make sure that the gift bottles are not screw-top ones.....................................Dizzy


----------



## DizzyIzzy

cmason1957 said:


> I will give you this word of warning. It isn't the Corning that's the problem with she tops, sure the corks go in fine, they are a tiny bit wider than cork top bottles. Now look away the lip what you ate going to be putting a corkscrew to take that cork out. It is about half the width of a cork top bottle. If you take the cork out with a lever you're corkscrew, they stres more likely to break and shatter. Use a double handled corkscrew and you should be okay, but even those have been know to break. Be careful.


Thanks for the warning CMason.............................since I have ordered many new bottles for the various wines I am fermenting, the relatively few screw tops I have will be used only by myself, and very cautiously, indeed!! BTW...............Aldi sells wine for $3.45/bottle (I like the white zin.). With the cost of bottles averaging $2/bottle, one can drink the wine for $1.45 and have a free bottle. It's a win/win.........................Dizzy


----------



## Aeludor

KCCam said:


> @hounddawg, I saw a while back you started a sour cherry blend as your first Dragon Blood. Besides the saskatoons I picked last year, I got 11 lbs of Evans cherries from my neighbour's tree from just the branches that were hanging over the fence into my yard. I think the Evans cherry was developed locally. It's about the only cherry that will grow in our central Alberta climate, and it grows *very* well, producing a HUGE amount of cherries. They are sour, but not extremely so, and almost sweet when very ripe, sweet enough to eat right off the tree. But nothing like an actual sweet cherry. I had 4 lbs of frozen fresh blueberries in the freezer, and since l was less sure of how the cherries would ferment than the saskatoons, I added them to the Cherry Dragon Blood (still trying to come up with a good name). I see lots of comments about how bananas can help and we always have frozen bananas on hand for banana bread, so I threw a few of those in as well. It is fermenting almost identically to my Toon Blood though very slightly slower. It's a little darker which surprises me, and currently tastes very similar too, again, which surprises me. I can't wait until I can start clearing it. Dragon Blood is soooooo beautiful when clear! What quantities did you use in yours?
> View attachment 62898


Nice! I think those are the same type of cherries I picked today. A friend across the street (Millbourne area in Edmonton) asked if i wanted the last of her cherries from her tree for my wine. I was able to get 11 - 12 pounds today. I was thinking of using them for a dragons blood.


----------



## KCCam

Aeludor said:


> Nice! I think those are the same type of cherries I picked today. A friend across the street (Millbourne area in Edmonton) asked if i wanted the last of her cherries from her tree for my wine. I was able to get 11 - 12 pounds today. I was thinking of using them for a dragons blood.
> 
> View attachment 64410


I am drinking some right now. It turned out wonderfully, at least for my taste. I’ll give you some details if that’s what you’re looking for.


----------



## KCCam

Aeludor said:


> Nice! I think those are the same type of cherries I picked today. A friend across the street (Millbourne area in Edmonton) asked if i wanted the last of her cherries from her tree for my wine. I was able to get 11 - 12 pounds today. I was thinking of using them for a dragons blood.
> 
> View attachment 64410


Those look just like what I picked last year. Mine were probably riper. Evans is very popular in the Edmonton area. We had one at our last house too. I’m in Sherwood Park.


----------



## Aeludor

KCCam said:


> I am drinking some right now. It turned out wonderfully, at least for my taste. I’ll give you some details if that’s what you’re looking for.


Sure, I'd be interested in seeing your mix!


----------



## KCCam

Aeludor said:


> Sure, I'd be interested in seeing your mix!


My berries and cherries were rinsed and air-dried, then frozen.

For a 6 gallon batch:

4 kg (8.8 lbs) Evans cherries
1.5 kg (3.3 lbs) blueberries
1 kg (2.2 lbs) frozen bananas (6) with skin
32 oz Real Lemon.
EC-1118 yeast


About 6 kg (13 lbs, 30 cups) sugar to make 25 L (6.5 gal) @ 1.110 SG
(Note: that's higher ABV than most enjoy, about 16.5% when fermented to 0.990, so pick your desired ABV and use enough sugar to suit)
I used 1 Tbs tannin instead of 1 tsp that the recipe calls for.
Kieselsol/Chitosan (i.e. SuperKleer, DualFine, Claro K.C.) for clearing.
Notes:

I hadn't planned to add the blueberries, but just had a hunch that the colour and flavour of the cherries could use some help. This was just a guess and I plan to do a batch this year with only cherries to compare.
This fermented dry to 0.990.
3/4 cup sugar per gallon for backsweetening left the SG at 1.004 (do bench trials)



*Now you have to come up with a cool name for it for me. *I am so *not *creative that way.


----------



## Aeludor

KCCam said:


> My berries and cherries were rinsed and air-dried, then frozen.
> 
> For a 6 gallon batch:
> 
> 4 kg (8.8 lbs) Evans cherries
> 1.5 kg (3.3 lbs) blueberries
> 1 kg (2.2 lbs) frozen bananas (6) with skin
> 32 oz Real Lemon.
> EC-1118 yeast
> 
> 
> About 6 kg (13 lbs, 30 cups) sugar to make 25 L (6.5 gal) @ 1.110 SG
> (Note: that's higher ABV than most enjoy, about 16.5% when fermented to 0.990, so pick your desired ABV and use enough sugar to suit)
> I used 1 Tbs tannin instead of 1 tsp that the recipe calls for.
> Kieselsol/Chitosan (i.e. SuperKleer, DualFine, Claro K.C.) for clearing.
> Notes:
> 
> I hadn't planned to add the blueberries, but just had a hunch that the colour and flavour of the cherries could use some help. This was just a guess and I plan to do a batch this year with only cherries to compare.
> This fermented dry to 0.990.
> 3/4 cup sugar per gallon for backsweetening left the SG at 1.004 (do bench trials)
> View attachment 64469
> 
> 
> *Now you have to come up with a cool name for it for me. *I am so *not *creative that way.


That looks very nice! Thanks for the recipe, I'll have to give it a shot. When you say 4kg of cherries, do you include the pits in the weight (just don't break them) ?

And the banana, how do you put that in? Whole and mashed? peeled and broken?

I never would have thought of putting banana into a wine.

Jay


----------



## KCCam

Aeludor said:


> That looks very nice! Thanks for the recipe, I'll have to give it a shot. When you say 4kg of cherries, do you include the pits in the weight (just don't break them) ?
> 
> And the banana, how do you put that in? Whole and mashed? peeled and broken?
> 
> I never would have thought of putting banana into a wine.
> 
> Jay


4 kg with pits. I froze the cherries whole. Originally DangerDave's recommendation was to microwave the frozen fruit to defrost it. It seems that recently I've read that might not be necessary, or even recommended. But for this batch that's what I did. Not enough to cook it, just defrost. It was still cool when I took it out of the microwave. Cooking the fruit can set the pectin (bad), which might be why I've read to just let the frozen fruit thaw at room temperature.

So, whole cherries, blueberries, and sliced frozen bananas with the skin on but without the 2 ends, all go into the nylon knee-high stocking. I almost needed 2 stockings, but didn't have another, so I made it fit into one. Dollar stores were closed due to COVID, so I paid $8, I think, for 2 pair at a grocery store. And I *got runs in them* putting the fruit in. I never got runs in my Dollar Store knee-highs @ $1.25 for 4 pair (thanks for that, @dangerdave). There is some controversy as to whether to include the banana skins, but that is what was originally suggested to me. It *IS *important that the bananas be very *overripe*. As a banana ripens the starch (not fermentable & causes starch haze) is converted to fermentable sugar.

Just to be clear, there is no magic in those numbers. I used every cherry I picked, and every frozen blueberry that I happened to have stashed in my freezer. But it did seem about right. DB calls for 6 lbs fruit. A lot of people double that, I used 9 lbs in my first batch. Bananas are mentioned a lot as a way to add mouthfeel without affecting the flavour at all. Raisins are also a common addition.

Since I used mostly my own fruit, I wanted to see how much I could keep the cost down. I got 31 bottles, 17% ABV, for about $14 CANADIAN. That's less than $0.35 US per bottle. Cheaper than Skeeter Pee!

*OK, I did my part. You owe me a clever name!*


----------



## RocketBee

"Canuckistan Slam", apologies @KCCam ...best I could do after my bedtime.


----------



## Yooper🍷

Day 9 hit .993. Needed my primary so had to rack it into carboy still bubbling away. Will continue to monitor Sg until it stays the same and will then stabilize, clear and back sweeten. Can’t wait. Color looks like it will be awesome.


----------



## Johnd

Yooper🍷 said:


> Day 9 hit .993. Needed my primary so had to rack it into carboy still bubbling away. Will continue to monitor Sg until it stays the same and will then stabilize, clear and back sweeten. Can’t wait. Color looks like it will be awesome. View attachment 64512


Don’t forget to get it topped up somewhere in the last three steps. adding sugar will account for some volume, probably not all of it, though.


----------



## Yooper🍷

Will do that after I see where sugar addition will bring it. Also starting another batch of DB. With chokecherry and blueberry. Going to get it started tonight. Soaked chokecherry for past 24 hours. Will keep you all informed.

Did start it — 8:30 pm. —very light (chokecherry-blueberry Rose’). Tasted it - knock your socks off good. Hope it comes out that way.


----------



## Aeludor

KCCam said:


> 4 kg with pits. I froze the cherries whole. Originally DangerDave's recommendation was to microwave the frozen fruit to defrost it. It seems that recently I've read that might not be necessary, or even recommended. But for this batch that's what I did. Not enough to cook it, just defrost. It was still cool when I took it out of the microwave. Cooking the fruit can set the pectin (bad), which might be why I've read to just let the frozen fruit thaw at room temperature.
> 
> So, whole cherries, blueberries, and sliced frozen bananas with the skin on but without the 2 ends, all go into the nylon knee-high stocking. I almost needed 2 stockings, but didn't have another, so I made it fit into one. Dollar stores were closed due to COVID, so I paid $8, I think, for 2 pair at a grocery store. And I *got runs in them* putting the fruit in. I never got runs in my Dollar Store knee-highs @ $1.25 for 4 pair (thanks for that, @dangerdave). There is some controversy as to whether to include the banana skins, but that is what was originally suggested to me. It *IS *important that the bananas be very *overripe*. As a banana ripens the starch (not fermentable & causes starch haze) is converted to fermentable sugar.
> 
> Just to be clear, there is no magic in those numbers. I used every cherry I picked, and every frozen blueberry that I happened to have stashed in my freezer. But it did seem about right. DB calls for 6 lbs fruit. A lot of people double that, I used 9 lbs in my first batch. Bananas are mentioned a lot as a way to add mouthfeel without affecting the flavour at all. Raisins are also a common addition.
> 
> Since I used mostly my own fruit, I wanted to see how much I could keep the cost down. I got 31 bottles, 17% ABV, for about $14 CANADIAN. That's less than $0.35 US per bottle. Cheaper than Skeeter Pee!
> 
> *OK, I did my part. You owe me a clever name!*


Thanks for all that! I like when the cost is so minor. Just the time involved, and it's still worth it.

How about... Cherry Peeler(s).


----------



## G259

'Canuchistan Slam', a down vote, an Islamic nation would not allow wine, so . . .

Cherry Berry Jubilee (all I could think of!)

Although not, jubilee refers to a long anniversary celebration, 25-35 years.

Cherry Berry Smash!


----------



## KCCam

G259 said:


> 'Canuchistan Slam', a down vote, an Islamic nation would not allow wine, so . . .
> 
> Cherry Berry Jubilee (all I could think of!)
> 
> Although not, jubilee refers to a long anniversary celebration, 25-35 years.
> 
> Cherry Berry Smash!


Not bad. 

I was thinking maybe Cherry Baby? But doesn't go with the Dragon theme.
Cherry Bomb? Kinda like that one.

Or considering the price per bottle (in Canadian $), unrelated to cherry, a play on words:
50 Cent Peace?


----------



## Aeludor

KCCam said:


> Not bad.
> 
> I was thinking maybe Cherry Baby? But doesn't go with the Dragon theme.
> Cherry Bomb? Kinda like that one.
> 
> Or considering the price per bottle (in Canadian $), unrelated to cherry, a play on words:
> 50 Cent Peace?


What about calling it M80 (going with the cherry bomb theme)


----------



## Digger

Bottled my first batch a couple weeks ago. Came out crystal clear after using a vinbrite filter. Drank/gave away prob 18 bottles of 30 so far. Went to get some out last night and every bottle looks like this now. None of the others had this problem. All stored on their side in a closet. Any ideas?


----------



## KCCam

Digger said:


> Bottled my first batch a couple weeks ago. Came out crystal clear after using a vinbrite filter. Drank/gave away prob 18 bottles of 30 so far. Went to get some out last night and every bottle looks like this now. None of the others had this problem. All stored on their side in a closet. Any ideas?


Hard to see in the picture, but is it just cloudy, or is there stuff floating in the wine? Could it be fermenting? *All *of yours are like that, so have you checked any of the bottles you gave out? What was your final SG? Was it stable? Did you use the proper dose of sorbate?


----------



## Digger

Stuff floating. I checked every bottle we opened and gave out and nothing like this. The ending SG was .992 and we backsweetened and waited 3 weeks before bottling. No sign of fermentation before bottling. I did use sorbate according to the instructions.


----------



## KCCam

Digger said:


> Stuff floating. I checked every bottle we opened and gave out and nothing like this. The ending SF was .992 and we backsweetened and waited 3 weeks before bottling. No sign of fermentation before bottling. I did use sorbate according to the instructions.


Hopefully someone here has seen that before. Did you use a clearing agent? Which one? I’ve read Sparkaloid can cause “whispy” sediment after bottling. So it doesn’t taste fizzy or sharp on the tongue? Your process seems right on. You added sorbate before or with the sugar, right? Not 3 weeks after when bottling?


----------



## Digger

I did use sparkolloid. Not fizzy or sharp tasting. I added sorbate before the sugar. I let it clear after adding sorbate for a couple weeks before back sweetening


----------



## Digger

I also noticed it’s in my strawberry wine I bottled the same day. Any way it’s something from the corks? Strawberry is the same as In the first half of the bottles didn’t have it and it was perfect you clear fit a month before bottling. Used wine conditioner to back sweeten it. Used sugar to back sweeten the DB


----------



## KCCam

@Digger, Do you use Campden tablets or powdered k-meta?


----------



## Digger

For the strawberry it was 5 campden tablets. In the DB it was powder


----------



## KCCam

Digger said:


> For the strawberry it was 5 campden tablets. In the DB it was powder


I'm out of ideas. It must be something common to both batches. Maybe it wasn't as clear as you thought when you bottled it? Maybe something went wrong with the Sparkaloid (try Kieselsol/Chitosan, DualFine, SuperKleer). Did you use bentonite? Was it significantly warmer or cooler when you found the cloudy wine? Good news is, I'm sure the wine is fine. Keep it for yourself. Let it settle in the bottle.


----------



## Digger

I looked at the only common things were the sparkolloid and filtering through the vinbrite. The strawberry sat for probably 4 more weeks than the dragons blood and it was clear for a couple weeks before bottling. I’ve drank one of each and doesn’t effect the flavor at all. I didn’t use Bentonite in either.


----------



## Fencepost

I've searched this thread for a DD muscadine recipe... but only found a recipe for triple berry (6lb) and muscadine (8lb) combo ... would the Danger Dave Recipe work with using muscadine only? or would there be an imbalance because of not enough acid or tartness from the berries? I have blackberries and muscadines... and have done blackberry only (it was great!) but was thinking about doing a muscadine only. What do you think? Will it still be balanced? or do I need to combine both blackberries and muscadines.

Thanks for any info/feedback...


----------



## Fencepost

@dangerdave @KCCam See above... forgot about adding the @ !


----------



## KCCam

Fencepost said:


> I've searched this thread for a DD muscadine recipe... but only found a recipe for triple berry (6lb) and muscadine (8lb) combo ... would the Danger Dave Recipe work with using muscadine only? or would there be an imbalance because of not enough acid or tartness from the berries? I have blackberries and muscadines... and have done blackberry only (it was great!) but was thinking about doing a muscadine only. What do you think? Will it still be balanced? or do I need to combine both blackberries and muscadines.
> 
> Thanks for any info/feedback...


I found this:




__





DangerDave's Dragon Blood Wine


You are all brilliant! What a great bunch of winemakers!




www.winemakingtalk.com





And I think @hounddawg and @Val-the-Brew-Gal could probably give you some ideas.


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## Fencepost

Thanks @KCCam, if I read it correctly in the link you provided, @MickeyB, just "substituted double the muscadines (12 lbs) for berry blend and added 1 tsp of acid" and went with the recipe. And he indicated it was great.... I am assuming that it's acid blend he added... if this sounds right, I have the muscadines in the freezer and will start it on the weekend. Other comments welcomed and appreciated @hounddawg @Val-the-Brew-Gal This is really a great group to interact with. I sincerely appreciate it.


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## hounddawg

my only advice is to get a cheap PH meter and some 4.1 solution to make sure you're meter is in the ballpark, something like blueberry and it'll be stringent to say the least, the best i can figure DDDB is made from juices to get a quick drinker, the muscadines will work quite well just use pectic enzyme, and you'll need to let anything that's from fruits or berries, more time to clear, where as using juices cuts down on the time required, since a juice don't have near as many particles in suspension as you get from berries and fruits,
Dawg


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## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Fencepost said:


> Thanks @KCCam, if I read it correctly in the link you provided, @MickeyB, just "substituted double the muscadines (12 lbs) for berry blend and added 1 tsp of acid" and went with the recipe. And he indicated it was great.... I am assuming that it's acid blend he added... if this sounds right, I have the muscadines in the freezer and will start it on the weekend. Other comments welcomed and appreciated @hounddawg @Val-the-Brew-Gal This is really a great group to interact with. I sincerely appreciate it.



Hi! I've made Dragon Blood in about a million combinations. I make grape only versions all the time. Most often I don't even know what types of grapes they are as I'm just given them by friends and family who have grapevines in their yards. One of our favorites though is the version I make with straight Concords...it is SO good. I also make lots of grape and fruit combination batches including quad berry, huckleberry, raspberry and others. I loosely call them a Moscato but honestly that's just my designation to indicate that it included grapes. 

As for adding acid blend, I've never done that. I just follow the DB recipe and substitute whatever fruit or grapes I have on hand. I do always use 12 lbs of fruit though instead of the 6 lbs suggested.

Anyway, these are just my opinions and experiences. The only wines I make other than DB are Island Mist and 6 week Winexpert kits. So you can see I certainly don't have a discriminating palate by any means...I just make what I like


----------



## KCCam

Fencepost said:


> Thanks @KCCam, if I read it correctly in the link you provided, @MickeyB, just "substituted double the muscadines (12 lbs) for berry blend and added 1 tsp of acid" and went with the recipe. And he indicated it was great.... I am assuming that it's acid blend he added... if this sounds right, I have the muscadines in the freezer and will start it on the weekend. Other comments welcomed and appreciated @hounddawg @Val-the-Brew-Gal This is really a great group to interact with. I sincerely appreciate it.


And don’t forget, DB is the ultimate recipe to make something your own. This is my Saskatoon Berry DB with a little over 9 lbs of berries. I should have put it a clear glass because it is so beautiful to look at. Almost a shame to drink it.

No, that’s a lie. I don’t mind drinking it at all!  Lol.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> And don’t forget, DB is the ultimate recipe to make something your own. This is my Saskatoon Berry DB with a little over 9 lbs of berries. I should have put it a clear glass because it is so beautiful to look at. Almost a shame to drink it.
> 
> No, that’s a lie. I don’t mind drinking it at all!  Lol.
> View attachment 64754


now that's a sweet polish,,,
Dawg


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## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Not as pretty as your Saskatoon @KCCam but here's the Huckleberry "Moscato" DB that's in my glass right now.


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## hounddawg

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Not as pretty as your Saskatoon @KCCam but here's the Huckleberry "Moscato" DB that's in my glass right now. View attachment 64757


haw, to funny, i'm drinking a DDDB variant , blueberry, black raspberry, tart cherry, SKOAL TO ALL
Dawg


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## Val-the-Brew-Gal

hounddawg said:


> haw, to funny, i'm drinking a DDDB variant , blueberry, black raspberry, tart cherry, SKOAL TO ALL
> Dawg



Cheers, my friend!


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> now that's a sweet polish,,,
> Dawg


Thanks. And not even filtered.


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> haw, to funny, i'm drinking a DDDB variant , blueberry, black raspberry, tart cherry, SKOAL TO ALL
> Dawg


Skoal! ... How about a picture? I knows you can do 'em.


----------



## KCCam

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Not as pretty as your Saskatoon @KCCam but here's the Huckleberry "Moscato" DB that's in my glass right now. View attachment 64757


Oh, I don't know... it looks pretty fine to me. Too bad we can't trade a bottle.


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

KCCam said:


> Too bad we can't trade a bottle.



For sure! I would love to try your Saskatoon!


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Skoal! ... How about a picture? I knows you can do 'em.


tomorrow, i've finished off my stemless stainless steel 18 oz wine glass, and all my bottles are green, got into that habit by setting back wines, i got into the habit of filtering everything, um you do any pear, pineapple or banana, and since my vac system , is set up on a splitter valve, so a flip of a lever takes you from racking to bottling, nothing to set up, except for dropping in either a 1 micron or 5 micron filters, 1-whites, 5-reds, and yes both sides have filters, 2 complete systems, 1 aspirator pump, will post tomorrow just for you, @KCCam,,,, night world
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg




----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Oh, I don't know... it looks pretty fine to me. Too bad we can't trade a bottle.


OK @KCCam, post above this one, not good with electronics
Dawg


----------



## Fencepost

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Hi! I've made Dragon Blood in about a million combinations. I make grape only versions all the time. Most often I don't even know what types of grapes they are as I'm just given them by friends and family who have grapevines in their yards. One of our favorites though is the version I make with straight Concords...it is SO good. I also make lots of grape and fruit combination batches including quad berry, huckleberry, raspberry and others. I loosely call them a Moscato but honestly that's just my designation to indicate that it included grapes.
> 
> As for adding acid blend, I've never done that. I just follow the DB recipe and substitute whatever fruit or grapes I have on hand. I do always use 12 lbs of fruit though instead of the 6 lbs suggested.
> 
> Anyway, these are just my opinions and experiences. The only wines I make other than DB are Island Mist and 6 week Winexpert kits. So you can see I certainly don't have a discriminating palate by any means...I just make what I like


Val, just to be sure, you put the entire grape/muscadine (mashed up but with skins & seeds) for the entire time it takes to ferment down to 1.000, as the recipe calls for, correct? I've read so much about how much time "on skins" I get a sense it is important, but not having done grapes, just waned to double check. I will have them in a nylon strainer bag, will do the squeezing (Presser Method DD calls it) and can pull them out at any time. Thanks for your help... and I hope to follow your path of many variations of DDDB as it really suits my tastes as well. All the best.


----------



## hounddawg




----------



## hounddawg

i could not figure out the correct lighting so that color would show through, @KCCam,,,
Dawg


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## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> i could not figure out the correct lighting so that color would show through, @KCCam,,,
> Dawg
> View attachment 64774


I think I lucked out with the sunlit background. That looks awesome to me though. And nice label.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I think I lucked out with the sunlit background. That looks awesome to me though. And nice label.


thank you, yeah i like to double or triple my fruits and berries, i grew up eating fruits and berries right from the trees , bushs, briars , and that is the taste i aim for, 
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

the last 2 pictures are in bright sunlight setting on a white surface, 
Dawg


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Fencepost said:


> Val, just to be sure, you put the entire grape/muscadine (mashed up but with skins & seeds) for the entire time it takes to ferment down to 1.000, as the recipe calls for, correct? I've read so much about how much time "on skins" I get a sense it is important, but not having done grapes, just waned to double check. I will have them in a nylon strainer bag, will do the squeezing (Presser Method DD calls it) and can pull them out at any time. Thanks for your help... and I hope to follow your path of many variations of DDDB as it really suits my tastes as well. All the best.



Yes, I add the whole grapes to a nylon fruit bag and squeeze it daily. When doing a berry batch, I'll pull it out when the berries are pretty much completely disintegrated as long as I'm fairly close to a S.G. of 1.000 but with grapes I do "leave it on the skins" until I'm ready to rack to my secondary fermenter. 

Experimenting with different fruits and combinations is a fun party of the process  I've only made a couple batches that I didn't like that much, but then I'd have friends request that very same wine so I knew it was just me  

Happy winemaking!


----------



## G259

hounddawg said:


> View attachment 64767



Very nice label and shrink top! I'm so ghetto, I use a scrap of paper and some clear tape!

Yeah, I'm all about the wine, nothing else (lol!)


----------



## hounddawg

G259 said:


> Very nice label and shrink top! I'm so ghetto, I use a scrap of paper and some clear tape!


thank you
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

G259 said:


> Very nice label and shrink top! I'm so ghetto, I use a scrap of paper and some clear tape!
> 
> Yeah, I'm all about the wine, nothing else (lol!)


the outside don't mean much of nothing, the only important thing is what is in the bottle, 
Dawg


----------



## DizzyIzzy

Well, I have finally done it.....................corrupted a local Amish man with a tasting of DDDB!. We had a little wine tasting after he did some work for me and he loved it so much he has asked if I would show him the art of winemaking. First lesson was last night. I loaned him all my winemaking books, and I am now developing a list of hints, supplies needed, etc. It was heart-warming to see him so excited about the process, and all because he loved the DB so much! Of course I sent him home with a bottle and he is eager to share it with his father......................................Dizzy


----------



## G259

Are Ahmish people non-drinkers though?

I checked Bing, it typically goes both ways. Over indulge, and you're a sinner, expected!


----------



## hounddawg

G259 said:


> Are Ahmish people non-drinkers though?
> 
> I checked Bing, it typically goes both ways. Over indulge, and you're a sinner, expected!


yup it says jesus drank wine, and it says in the bible that you can drink, but not get drunkard, as well it says (king james bible) to not drink anything that moves within itself, pour whiskey into a clear glass with bright daylight or bright lights, look closely and you can see currants moving through the whiskey, as for the amish they won't use electricity from the grid, yet they use electricity from they're own generators, they do great work, what they build is dead on right, and amish broke horses and mules are as good as they come, 
Dawg


----------



## sour_grapes

hounddawg said:


> as for the amish they won't use electricity from the grid, yet they use electricity from they're own generators, they do great work,



(I am quoting you, Dawg, just for a jumping off point. I am not disagreeing with anything you wrote.)

I am far from an expert on the Amish, but I do find their attitude toward technology interesting, and maybe even inspiring. Many people think that they shun all new technology. My understanding is that, rather, they evaluate each new bit of technology and assess if it is something that brings their community closer together, or is it something that can lead to weakening of community bonds. They reject things those in the latter category. So the attitude is not "antitechnology," it is rather "pro-community at almost any cost."

They certainly have a point. My wife and I sat in the same room for a spell while I read this forum and she read hers!


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> the last 2 pictures are in bright sunlight setting on a white surface,
> Dawg





KCCam said:


> And don’t forget, DB is the ultimate recipe to make something your own. This is my Saskatoon Berry DB with a little over 9 lbs of berries. I should have put it a clear glass because it is so beautiful to look at. Almost a shame to drink it.
> 
> No, that’s a lie. I don’t mind drinking it at all!  Lol.
> View attachment 64754


I had sun illuminating the glass as well as bright objects behind that can be seen through the wine. I was mistaken, however, about which wine it was. That one was my cherry/blueberry that got stirred up after clearing. It wouldn't clear again quick enough for my liking, so I used a 1/4 dose of sparkaloid as a test. It cleared up right away, but guess what? I am now finding "whispy" sediment in my bottles. Dang. Oh well.

This is my Saskatoon DB. It still has no sediment in the bottles. Still crystal clear.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I had sun illuminating the glass as well as bright objects behind that can be seen through the wine. I was mistaken, however, about which wine it was. That one was my cherry/blueberry that got stirred up after clearing. It wouldn't clear again quick enough for my liking, so I used a 1/4 dose of sparkaloid as a test. It cleared up right away, but guess what? I am now finding "whispy" sediment in my bottles. Dang. Oh well.
> 
> This is my Saskatoon DB. It still has no sediment in the bottles. Still crystal clear.
> 
> View attachment 64823


sweet color, what was your FSG?
that was my first foria with blueberry, while still in bottle shock from bottling it was very stringent to say the least, but i could open and in 30 minutes it was very much smoother, i opened a bottle today poured straight in to the glass and tasted, smooth, yep soon as my labels get in, that'll get lost in the back of a closet for at least a year, that dog will hunt,,, i'd only bottled 1/3 to see if i wanted to drink it now or hide the rest out for a year, so i only ordered 1/3 the labels in case i had to tweak it, nope, as is,,,,
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> sweet color, what was your FSG?


Initial SG was 1.110. On day #2 after squeezing bag it was up to 1.114. Finished at 0.988. Backsweetened with sugar, 1/2 cup/gallon, ending at 0.998 (so the sugar added 10 points). Not as sweet as you like them, and I did stop short of what I thought was just right, knowing it would improve. But I'm afraid it ain't gonna last that long! 
My cherry/blueberry was almost the same, finished at 0.990 and backsweetened with 3/4 cup/gallon, ending at 1.004.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Initial SG was 1.110. On day #2 after squeezing bag it was up to 1.114. Finished at 0.988. Backsweetened with sugar, 1/2 cup/gallon, ending at 0.998 (so the sugar added 10 points). Not as sweet as you like them, and I did stop short of what I thought was just right, knowing it would improve. But I'm afraid it ain't gonna last that long!
> My cherry/blueberry was almost the same, finished at 0.990 and backsweetened with 3/4 cup/gallon, ending at 1.004.


funny how that, don't last that long is,,,huh?
Dawg


----------



## G259

Nice info about the Amish, I'll admit that I'm a bit closed, but wouldn't be against learning about it in the future.


----------



## hounddawg

G259 said:


> Nice info about the Amish, I'll admit that I'm a bit closed, but wouldn't be against learning about it in the future.


i have had my beef, pork, goats, deer processed for the last 30 years, you can eat off their floors, they wear white clothes, without a spot on them, now the back half is the slaughter area, them wear dark clothes, but the front half has all window all the way the front, not on spot or smear in 30 years on the floor or there clothes, my forecart you can't buy better, anything the Amish do they do it right the first time, although some tend to be a little more costly, but you get what you pay for,, before i got into retail construction, i did all my own butchering, i have the grinders, a meat bandsaw with sliding stainless steel table, but work kept me away, and now being quite harshly disabled ( no pity for me please) i'm alive and i enjoy my life, if you treat them with respect and look them in the eye and honest with them they are mostly very good people,
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Initial SG was 1.110. On day #2 after squeezing bag it was up to 1.114. Finished at 0.988. Backsweetened with sugar, 1/2 cup/gallon, ending at 0.998 (so the sugar added 10 points). Not as sweet as you like them, and I did stop short of what I thought was just right, knowing it would improve. But I'm afraid it ain't gonna last that long!
> My cherry/blueberry was almost the same, finished at 0.990 and backsweetened with 3/4 cup/gallon, ending at 1.004.


i love you man, but you're trying to murder my sweet tooth,, lol
Dawg


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> i love you man, but you're trying to murder my sweet tooth,, lol
> Dawg


Hahaha. Well, for me, I guess it's like eating a Big Mac with fries, and a diet Coke. But I do prefer my wine on the drier side. And whiskey neat. But my vices are Grand Marnier (for a treat, when I can afford it) -- very sweet, and Southern Comfort -- yum. Oh, and I like port, and I've been reading about limoncello on here too, I love that!


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> Hahaha. Well, for me, I guess it's like eating a Big Mac with fries, and a diet Coke. But I do prefer my wine on the drier side. And whiskey neat. But my vices are Grand Marnier (for a treat, when I can afford it) -- very sweet, and Southern Comfort -- yum. Oh, and I like port, and I've been reading about limoncello on here too, I love that!


man a cobbler is kryptonite to me, lol
RRR


----------



## Fencepost

DDDB it calls for 48oz of lemon juice (but says any amount can be added).... I have made Blackberry with 48, 40 and 32oz.... and I seem to be liking it heading that direction (though I have enjoyed it all)... how low has anyone gone on the lemon juice? I am now doing a muscadine, and went back to 40oz, but was wondering, from a taste perspective, and experience of those on this forum, what has been the lowest amount of Lemon Juice added to a batch? and what did it taste like? (I guess one could add zero but not sure how that tastes). Any experience out there on this?


----------



## hounddawg

i've only ever made one DDDB variant, i got my reduced concentrates from homewinery.com i used 1 blueberry high acidity, 1 black raspberry and 1 tart cherry, it started out extremely stringent, so i dialed the ph to 3.6, first week to much acid to enjoy, 2 to 3 weeks later gooood, so i hide it in my closet, and still got some aging in a carboy to bulk age, i plan on being very, very stingy with it ,,, lol, so i used no lemon but blueberry is almost as acidic , so, it made a good so deep a red wine that in the glass it looks all but black,
Dawg


----------



## DizzyIzzy

G259 said:


> Are Ahmish people non-drinkers though?
> 
> I checked Bing, it typically goes both ways. Over indulge, and you're a sinner, expected!


I live within a large Amish community. Some drink, some do not..................some smoke, some do not.............Go figure!.............................Dizzy


----------



## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> I had sun illuminating the glass as well as bright objects behind that can be seen through the wine. I was mistaken, however, about which wine it was. That one was my cherry/blueberry that got stirred up after clearing. It wouldn't clear again quick enough for my liking, so I used a 1/4 dose of sparkaloid as a test. It cleared up right away, but guess what? I am now finding "whispy" sediment in my bottles. Dang. Oh well.
> 
> This is my Saskatoon DB. It still has no sediment in the bottles. Still crystal clear.
> 
> View attachment 64823


That looks beautiful, just like mine with which I bewitched a local Amish man into learning how to create his own....................Dizzy


----------



## DizzyIzzy

hounddawg said:


> i have had my beef, pork, goats, deer processed for the last 30 years, you can eat off their floors, they wear white clothes, without a spot on them, now the back half is the slaughter area, them wear dark clothes, but the front half has all window all the way the front, not on spot or smear in 30 years on the floor or there clothes, my forecart you can't buy better, anything the Amish do they do it right the first time, although some tend to be a little more costly, but you get what you pay for,, before i got into retail construction, i did all my own butchering, i have the grinders, a meat bandsaw with sliding stainless steel table, but work kept me away, and now being quite harshly disabled ( no pity for me please) i'm alive and i enjoy my life, if you treat them with respect and look them in the eye and honest with them they are mostly very good people,
> Dawg


Dawg, I hate to disagree with you on some points, but I have had a different experience. As I have said earlier, I am surrounded by a large Amish community, and YES, many of them are quite fastidious about cleaning their homes, barns, personal appearance,* THEN* there are others that smell horrible, dirty/disheveled in appearance, the inside of their homes are dirty. Probably similar to us* "English"* (which is what they call us). Some of us are neat and tidy, and some of us are not! That said, they do work very hard, are competent in what they do. Right now I have two of them putting a metal roof on my barn, and I am sure it will be done very well. I am a "Driver" for the local Amish, so I have the opportunity to see them "up close and personal", so I speak with a 45 year experience with their community here in Ohio................................................Dizzy


----------



## DizzyIzzy

Fencepost said:


> DDDB it calls for 48oz of lemon juice (but says any amount can be added).... I have made Blackberry with 48, 40 and 32oz.... and I seem to be liking it heading that direction (though I have enjoyed it all)... how low has anyone gone on the lemon juice? I am now doing a muscadine, and went back to 40oz, but was wondering, from a taste perspective, and experience of those on this forum, what has been the lowest amount of Lemon Juice added to a batch? and what did it taste like? (I guess one could add zero but not sure how that tastes). Any experience out there on this?


I add a 32 oz. bottle of RealLemon juice, and 16 oz. of RealLime, and the taste is divine........my motto: If it ain't broke, don't fix it....................Dizzy


----------



## Val-the-Brew-Gal

DizzyIzzy said:


> I add a 32 oz. bottle of RealLemon juice, and 16 oz. of RealLime, and the taste is divine........my motto: If it ain't broke, don't fix it....................Dizzy



Do you add the lime no matter what fruit you are using? The only time I've substituted or used lime is in my lime Skeeter Pee.


----------



## KCCam

Fencepost said:


> DDDB it calls for 48oz of lemon juice (but says any amount can be added).... I have made Blackberry with 48, 40 and 32oz.... and I seem to be liking it heading that direction (though I have enjoyed it all)... how low has anyone gone on the lemon juice? I am now doing a muscadine, and went back to 40oz, but was wondering, from a taste perspective, and experience of those on this forum, what has been the lowest amount of Lemon Juice added to a batch? and what did it taste like? (I guess one could add zero but not sure how that tastes). Any experience out there on this?


I believe @dangerdave’s Dragonette is a version with acid blend instead of lemon juice, but I’m going from memory. And I’ve read about someone using rhubarb instead of lemon for the acid too. I personally have used 32 oz in the batches I’ve made.


----------



## hounddawg

DizzyIzzy said:


> Dawg, I hate to disagree with you on some points, but I have had a different experience. As I have said earlier, I am surrounded by a large Amish community, and YES, many of them are quite fastidious about cleaning their homes, barns, personal appearance,* THEN* there are others that smell horrible, dirty/disheveled in appearance, the inside of their homes are dirty. Probably similar to us* "English"* (which is what they call us). Some of us are neat and tidy, and some of us are not! That said, they do work very hard, are competent in what they do. Right now I have two of them putting a metal roof on my barn, and I am sure it will be done very well. I am a "Driver" for the local Amish, so I have the opportunity to see them "up close and personal", so I speak with a 45 year experience with their community here in Ohio................................................Dizzy


wow,, i'd never dreamed of that, here in northeast Arkansas they are few and scattered, i drive up in missouri, to that butcher shop, all my experiences are very limited to just a few of them off a ways and mule drawn equipment i ordered online through like yourself, he does the computer thing then tells them what needs to be built, and they build it and he ships it from Ohio, i being older and broken down, all my mules are around 13 hands, but i use logging harness with trace chains, i just double the leather using buckles to fit my mules my forecast is for massive draft horses, but my shafts and tongues are for haflingers,,,, so as i said my 30 years has been with very few, back when i did retail construction in areas like Ohio i'd see many driving their buggies but had zero interaction, what you just told me stuns me to no end, wow, but i reckon all humans have good and bad, clean and filthy, you've learned me more, thank you
Dawg


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## G259

I have NO idea of what you are talking about Dawg (lol), but I'm not 'city folk' either, more rural, off city! I understand though, EVERYONE is different, no matter if you are Amish or anything else, for that matter. The human experience applies to all humans who dwell on the earth, the non-humans, well, we are not alone!


----------



## Betty23

Hi all-

First off, thanks to Danger Dave for his recipe and to all of you for the knowledge in this thread. I've successfully made my first batch of Dragon's Blood and it tasted great on my initial rack. It's currently clearing. 

I'm hoping one of you gurus can help me with my ABV calculation. I didn't record readings during my ferment (as I should have).

Adjusted for temperature, starting SG without any fruit was 1.102 and ending SG was 0.993. (1.102-0.993)*133=14.5%.

I added 11lbs of fruit. Specifically, 8lbs of Costco frozen triple berry mix and 3lbs of Costco frozen blueberries. By the end of the ferment, all that was left were skins and seeds.

I wonder how much the fruit bumped up the starting SG or if any of you have any idea what my final ABV actually is?

Thank you!
betty


----------



## BernardSmith

Hi Betty23, and welcome. My sense is that all anyone might provide is a ball park estimate of the sugar content of the fruit. Do you know the total difference in volume the fruit added? Berries probably contain the equivalent amount of sugar as to give you a reading of about 1.050 (could be a little more or less) so if you use that figure as your guesstimate then if you know the total amount of liquid the fruit added then we could estimate the true SG 

You started with a volume of X gallons at a gravity of 1.100 (let's say) and the fruit JUICE added Y gallons at a gravity of 1.050. All you do is multiply the two lines and add them and then divide that sum by the total volume to obtain your starting gravity so if you had 4 gallons at 1.100 = 400 PLUS 1 gallon at .050 = 50 now you have 5 gallons at 450 and so the SG = 450/5 1.090. If the juice from the fruit added only say, half a gallon then that second line would be .5 X 50 = 25 for a total of 4.5 at 425 = 1.094 (in this case you are not diluting the 1.100 with as much liquid when you are adding only a half gallon at 1.050 than if you were adding a whole gallon at 1.050).


----------



## sour_grapes

Betty23 said:


> I wonder how much the fruit *bumped up* the starting SG or if any of you have any idea what my final ABV actually is? (Emphasis added.)



I agree with @BernardSmith . We would need to know the volume of the wine to answer your question.

I am mostly chiming in to point out that the fruit would be expected to _lower_ your SG and hence ABV by a little bit.


----------



## Betty23

@BernardSmith and @sour_grapes, thanks so much. I never thought about SG as you've described it, but I get it. I started off at 6 gallons without the fruit. At 6 gallons _without_ the fruit I had a starting 1.103 SG reading. 

How much volume did the juice add? I have no idea! I can only say that I added 11lbs of berries and that I was surprised at how much DB I had left in my primary when I racked off 6 gallons of it to my carboy at the end of the ferment. All that extra liquid had to have been because of the added fruit juice from the berries.

I guess not knowing the added volume doesn't get me closer to the answer, does it?

Thanks again!
betty


----------



## sour_grapes

Betty23 said:


> @BernardSmith and @sour_grapes, thanks so much. I never thought about SG as you've described it, but I get it. I started off at 6 gallons without the fruit. At 6 gallons _without_ the fruit I had a starting 1.103 SG reading.
> 
> How much volume did the juice add? I have no idea! I can only say that I added 11lbs of berries and that I was surprised at how much DB I had left in my primary when I racked off 6 gallons of it to my carboy at the end of the ferment. All that extra liquid had to have been because of the added fruit juice from the berries.
> 
> I guess not knowing the added volume doesn't get me closer to the answer, does it?
> 
> Thanks again!
> betty



The volume added by the fruit is going to be close to a gallon. A gallon of water weighs ~8.4 lbs. So 11 lbs of fruit would have a volume of about 1.25 gallons, and we'll just subtract off a bit for the skins and seeds.


Bernards guess at 1.050 for the fruit is a good guess. So I would put your starting SG (as if fruit the fruit were added initially) as (1.103 * 6 + 1.050 * 1) / (6+1) = 1.095. This would put your ABV at about (1.095 - 0.993)*131 = 13.4%


----------



## Betty23

sour_grapes said:


> The volume added by the fruit is going to be close to a gallon. A gallon of water weighs ~8.4 lbs. So 11 lbs of fruit would have a volume of about 1.25 gallons, and we'll just subtract off a bit for the skins and seeds.
> 
> 
> Bernards guess at 1.050 for the fruit is a good guess. So I would put your starting SG (as if fruit the fruit were added initially) as (1.103 * 6 + 1.050 * 1) / (6+1) = 1.095. This would put your ABV at about (1.095 - 0.993)*131 = 13.4%



Terrific. Thanks to both of you. Very helpful!

Though what confuses me is Danger Dave's admonition in his recipe-

*Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) *_*Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!*_


I suppose you're saying that the additional volume finally serves to decrease ABV _more _than the fruit sugars have raised it. I had always assumed that the fruit would have added to the alcohol in the end (which is what Danger Dave seems to be saying), and of course it has added alcohol, but you're saying that the volume increased by a factor so as to dilute that additional alcohol.


----------



## sour_grapes

Betty23 said:


> Terrific. Thanks to both of you. Very helpful!
> 
> Though what confuses me is Danger Dave's admonition in his recipe-
> 
> *Test SG with hydrometer (remember, you are looking for a SG around 1.075) *_*Note: The natural sugars from the fruit (below) will slightly increase the final ABV, so be careful how high you drive up the SG at this point!*_



Well, it is a slightly subtle concept. Many people, including Danger Dave, don't pick up on this and don't think carefully about the concomitant dilution correctly.




> I suppose you're saying that the additional volume finally serves to decrease ABV _more _than the fruit sugars have raised it. I had always assumed that the fruit would have added to the alcohol in the end (which is what Danger Dave seems to be saying), and of course it has added alcohol, but you're saying that the volume increased by a factor so as to dilute that additional alcohol.



Precisely. I could not have said it better.


----------



## KCCam

Betty23 said:


> @BernardSmith and @sour_grapes, thanks so much. I never thought about SG as you've described it, but I get it. I started off at 6 gallons without the fruit. At 6 gallons _without_ the fruit I had a starting 1.103 SG reading.
> 
> How much volume did the juice add? I have no idea! I can only say that I added 11lbs of berries and that I was surprised at how much DB I had left in my primary when I racked off 6 gallons of it to my carboy at the end of the ferment. All that extra liquid had to have been because of the added fruit juice from the berries.
> 
> I guess not knowing the added volume doesn't get me closer to the answer, does it?
> 
> Thanks again!
> betty


Well, I may get labelled a nerd, but I wholeheartedly take that as a compliment. I made a triple berry DB last year and had the same questions as you. Adding the fruit should drop the ABV, not raise it. I weighed my berries before putting them in the mesh bag, and took the quoted amount of sugar from the nutritional information on the frozen berry bag. I weighed the mesh bag after fermentation and found that about 90% of the weight made it into the must, and assumed most of that was liquid. Obviously some of it would be pulp that drops out as lees, but I have no way to determine how much that might be.

Sooo... to spare everyone the boring details of my calculations, I can concur with what @sour_grapes and @BernardSmith have "guesstimated". If your triple-berry is the same as the Canada Costco triple-berry, and if the blueberries have the same amount of sugar and water content, your berries would have added 1.15 gallons of juice at 1.035 SG. From my calculations and estimations, that would have dropped your effective initial SG from 1.103 to 1.092, and your final ABV would be 13.4%, exactly what Sour_Grapes estimated.

This brings up a good point about the "presser method" used for Dragon Blood: it makes it very difficult to determine the final ABV. The liquid and the sugar get released into the must gradually, over several days. I squeezed the heck out of my berries on day #1. My SG dropped from 1.110 to 1.108. It should have dropped more than 5 times that much. And on day #2, the SG actually went back up to 1.110 after squeezing the bag.


----------



## Betty23

Thanks @KCCam. Also very helpful. 

It‘s clear to me that the better way to approach this recipe with about 11 lbs of fruit in a regular sized primary is to fill up at the start only to something just shy of 5 gallons with that knowledge that the additional gallon will come from the fruit. For those who like a higher abv, bump up the sg at the start with the knowledge that it will drop as you’ve all described. I plan on doing both of these things the next time I make it.


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## sour_grapes

Betty23 said:


> Thanks @KCCam. Also very helpful.
> 
> It‘s clear to me that the better way to approach this recipe with about 11 lbs of fruit in a regular sized primary is to fill up at the start only to something just shy of 5 gallons with that knowledge that the additional gallon will come from the fruit. For those who like a higher abv, bump up the sg at the start with the knowledge that it will drop as you’ve all described. I plan on doing both of these things the next time I make it.



Okay, but make sure you use enough so that you will have a full carboy after racking off the lees. Better to have a quart too much than a quart too little!


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## hounddawg

Betty23 said:


> Thanks @KCCam. Also very helpfllul.
> 
> It‘s clear to me that the better way to approach this recipe with about 11 lbs of fruit in a regular sized primary is to fill up at the, start only to something just shy of 5 gallons with that knowledge that the additional gallon will come from the fruit. For those who like a higher abv, bump up the sg at the stt with the knowledge that it will drop as you’ve all described. I plan on doing both of these things the next time I make it.


agreed 100% with sour_grapes, i always make extra , so i keep gallon,, half gallon, quart judges and pint jugs ,, all with 38-400 threads that way drilled 6.5 bungs that will fit all your jugs and airlock all of them, win with your same must that's in your main carboy, that way every time you rack you can top off will the same must/wine. asis the exact same that's in your main carboy,
Dawg


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## BernardSmith

Exactly. This is why , if the added volume was say half a gallon the reduction of ABV would be less and not more than if the volume of juice the fruit added would be a gallon.


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## abrewkat

Hmm, I have to check the forum more often, missed a whole bunch of posts on sour cherries! I have them coming out my ears, but have only ever done a straight wine with them, not a Dragon Blood. I'm wondering if anyone has done both, and if there's a difference in flavour? I have made numerous batches, and just use the purple book recipe, with acid blend. I'm now wondering how the lemon would work with it. I think that may be my next project! Once I bottle the mead, baco noir kit, and 8 gallons each of concord and sour cherry currently aging in carboys...


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## porkchopmessiah

Got a question, which was a happy surprise...
I made a batch of DB using the BJ wholese antioxidant berry mix, had cherries, blueberry etc...
Starter with in just under 15 gallon after filtering and racking I had a 10gal demijohn (I know it's closer to nine) which I sweetened and bottled...i was meh on the taste, the cherry made it taste like a cough drop.....but.....
I had enough that didnt fit in the demijohn that filled 4 1.5L bottles.(no sugar added, and fermented dry)...I figured I'd make sangria or top up later batches with it.
That was 3 yrs ago, I opened one recently and it was fantastic...it even developed a fruitiness not even present in the sweetened version which I tried side by side....def way diff..and better...
Any body ever experience this, it's really making me rethink backsweetening...


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## hounddawg

abrewkat said:


> Hmm, I have to check the forum more often, missed a whole bunch of posts on sour cherries! I have them coming out my ears, but have only ever done a straight wine with them, not a Dragon Blood. I'm wondering if anyone has done both, and if there's a difference in flavour? I have made numerous batches, and just use the purple book recipe, with acid blend. I'm now wondering how the lemon would work with it. I think that may be my next project! Once I bottle the mead, baco noir kit, and 8 gallons each of concord and sour cherry currently aging in carboys...


i'd never done a DDDB until a few months ago ,,i used a jug of sour cherry, a jug of blueberry and a jug of black raspberry, when i put it up , it very astringent, i checked my PH adjusted it to 3.6 and bottled one carboy,,, leaving another 6 gallon to bulk and a 3 gallon DDDB mixed with 3 gallon strawberry, the DDDB i bottled is quite nice and i'm hoping in a year it'll be killer good, and i've done several sour cherries, both quire good and both quite different,,,,, i got all 3 concentrates from homewinery.com
Dawg


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## G259

I saw 'Tart Cerry' mentioned on here a few times, and was looking in a store that was run by Mennonites, and saw a 32 oz. bottle of concentrate (they had 3 more), it says 1:7 mixture ratio, but was thinking 1:5, to boost the body a bit. Also, I was thinking of a fruit addition, does anyone have a favorite? I think Dawg makes sour cherry, but any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## hounddawg

G259 said:


> I saw 'Tart Cerry' mentioned on here a few times, and was looking in a store that was run by Mennonites, and saw a 32 oz. bottle of concentrate (they had 3 more), it says 1:7 mixture ratio, but was thinking 1:5, to boost the body a \bit. Also, I was thinking of a fruit addition, does anyone have a favorite? I think Dawg makes sour cherry, but any suggestions would be appreciated.


tart cherry stands alone, with that being said i made a equal parts tart cherry, blueberry and black raspberry, after a PH adjustment, it is very good, i'm putting a few cases back, but leaving plenty out, as well i'm bulk aging 2/3 blackberry, 1/3 elderberry, sampled 1 bottle of it beings i try thing in 3's, that's 3-6 gallon carboys, i bottle one carboy, sample the leave the other two carboys to bulk age, but both of these i've even set back most of my bottles, i'm scared that if i see myself in the mirror that i'll get stingy and fight my refeltion to try and get it's share, lol
Dawg


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## G259

If you are saying that you are you're own worst enemy, I can relate to that (lol!) If you think that it will be good on it's own, I will try it that way. It'll be a good reference for my palate, as I have never made tart cherry before.


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## hounddawg

G259 said:


> If you are saying that you are you're own worst enemy, I can relate to that (lol!) If you think that it will be good on it's own, I will try it that way. It'll be a good reference for my palate, as I have never made tart cherry before.


tart cherry and sour cherry make great wine,,,,, sweet eating cherries end up with a cough syrup taste, and bingo i do tend to be my own worst enemy
Dawg


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## KCCam

G259 said:


> If you think that it will be good on it's own, I will try it that way. It'll be a good reference for my palate, as I have never made tart cherry before.


This is a Dragon Blood thread. @hounddawg is talking about country wine when he says “tart cherry stands alone,” I believe. He’ll correct me if I’m wrong. I used Evans cherries in my last batch of DB. Not sure what the difference is between them and tart or sour cherries. They’re fairly sour but easy to eat when ripe. My “feeling“ was that they would be light on flavour and colour, so for about 8 gallons, I used 11 lbs (all I had), along with 4.5 lbs of blueberries (all I had), and 2 lbs of bananas, with skin. I plan to make one this year with only the cherries to see how different it is. Could we see a picture of your cherries? I’m curious how dark they are.


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## hounddawg

sour and tart are the same cherries, and yes my, #2,,,6 gallon carboys, dragon blood, is 1/3 tart cherry, 1/3 blueberry, and 1/3 black raspberry, and i have a 6 gallon carboy that is half my DDDB and half strawberry,
Dawg


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## G259

So adding other fruits is recommended, OK i'll bite! I have 10 gallons of wine in my kitchen, ready to bottle! I'll start it when I'm finished.


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## G259

KCCam said:


> This is a Dragon Blood thread.


That is true, but as regular conversations often take a unforeseen turn, another thread would be an option, but seeing as (I believe) that the thread was pretty much finished, I decided to proceed.


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## G259

Sally, I'm going to say to have fun with it! It's not the end of the world if it does not turn out perfect. It is a learning experience, that allows us to experiment with different things. Take what you now know, and move on to other wines.


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## KCCam

G259 said:


> That is true, but as regular conversations often take a unforeseen turn, another thread would be an option, but seeing as (I believe) that the thread was pretty much finished, I decided to proceed.


@G259, I wasn't trying to say hounddawg was off-topic at all. Just cautioning that his comment to use tart cherry on its own, did not necessarily mean to use only the cherry in your Dragon Blood as he hasn't tried it himself.

I'm looking forward to hearing what you decide on, and how it turns out. Keep us posted!


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## DizzyIzzy

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Do you add the lime no matter what fruit you are using? The only time I've substituted or used lime is in my lime Skeeter Pee.


Val, I add that combination when making DDDB and Skeeter Pee..............................................Dizzy


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## DizzyIzzy

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> Do you add the lime no matter what fruit you are using? The only time I've substituted or used lime is in my lime Skeeter Pee.


I responded to this in another thread (I think), but my answer is that I use this combo on both DDDB and SP. Be safe Val...................................Dizzy


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## DizzyIzzy

KCCam said:


> I believe @dangerdave’s Dragonette is a version with acid blend instead of lemon juice, but I’m going from memory. And I’ve read about someone using rhubarb instead of lemon for the acid too. I personally have used 32 oz in the batches I’ve made.


Kerry, where did you hear about "Dragonette"? I am interested...........................tell me more.........................................Dizzy


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## MustyMike

Six gallon batch racked into secondary. Triple berry blend: strawberry, raspberry, blueberry frozen + I added some fresh picked blueberries from the local patch. Looks very promising


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## KCCam

DizzyIzzy said:


> Kerry, where did you hear about "Dragonette"? I am interested...........................tell me more.........................................Dizzy


From the master himself:




__





DRAGONETTE: Triple Berry Wine


"DRAGONETTE" (Triple Berry Wine) A VARIATION OF DANGERDAVE'S DRAGON BLOOD RECIPE Ingredients: For a six gallon batch: Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order: Water to about five gallons 17 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG...




www.winemakingtalk.com





Basically 3 tsp acid blend instead of lemon juice, and double the berries. Although at least in one post I saw, he says he didn’t really care for it, I imagine because you can’t improve on perfection, lol. I know lots have tried it, so there must be something to it.


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## Johnd

KCCam said:


> From the master himself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DRAGONETTE: Triple Berry Wine
> 
> 
> "DRAGONETTE" (Triple Berry Wine) A VARIATION OF DANGERDAVE'S DRAGON BLOOD RECIPE Ingredients: For a six gallon batch: Step 1: To a cleaned and sanitized seven gallon primary, add---in this order: Water to about five gallons 17 cups of white granulated sugar (you will be looking for a SG...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.winemakingtalk.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically 3 tsp acid blend instead of lemon juice, and double the berries. Although at least in one post I saw, he says he didn’t really care for it, I imagine because you can’t improve on perfection, lol. I know lots have tried it, so there must be something to it.


I make mine with just the fruit and no water, it’s pretty darn good fruit wine.


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## hounddawg

Fulmor said:


> Made a batch of this eight or so months ago. It does not taste like any wine that I drink, more like Kool-Aid with a distilled spirit added. Kinda like the jungle-juice kids put together as an alternative to beer at college parties but takes much greater effort. I cannot foresee it improving much with any amount of tweaking.
> 
> My question is: What does your batches flavor / taste compare too? Thanks in advance


that's why the one and only 18 gallon finish batch i made i quadrupled the fruits, mine done look like others and mine looks like a true red, hence the apostatize in my label DRAGON'S BLOOD. 
Dawg


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## Alexey

Val-the-Brew-Gal said:


> My carboys are all in baskets now because I once had one break and spill 6 gallons of wine all over my floor. I didn't know whether to cry or grab a straw. It took me HOURS to clean it up
> View attachment 63262


Is that ace bucket 5 gallons or is it 6 to the top?(meaning theres a gallon of wiggle room) I’ve been looking for a fermentation bucket for a while


----------



## Alexey

akron said:


> I did use “real lemon”. I did my first skeeter pee earlier and had great results fermenting. A bit gassy though! Finally settled down. DB would have probably worked fine too, except the blueberries swap. Guess I need a pH measuring device. I gave up winemaking a decade or so ago due to lots of bad wines. I’m inspired by this forum that maybe i can make some great ones once in a while!


That’s what I love about this forum. I’m new to wine making and I’ve spent hours and hours reading different posts and I can see so many people asking questions on what to do with bad wine, and the people helping Make it better from person experiences.


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## Val-the-Brew-Gal

Alexey said:


> Is that ace bucket 5 gallons or is it 6 to the top?(meaning theres a gallon of wiggle room) I’ve been looking for a fermentation bucket for a while



I actually use laundry tubs...not baskets with holes, but the solid tubs. I cut mine down a bit so I can better tell if my wine is clearing but the ones I have can easily hold 6 gallons of wine in the event a carboy should break. I also have a couple almost clear Rubbermaid totes that work really well. In fact, I'll probably eventually replace the solid color laundry tubs with those as they are easier for seeing the wine.


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## Alexey

hounddawg said:


> thank you
> Dawg


What does it cost to make labels. Is that for personal use or resale?


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## hounddawg

Alexey said:


> What does it cost to make labels. Is that for personal use or resale?


the guys name is Doug cox his email is-- [email protected] --
he has tons of different pictures he prints then on a inkjet printer, when they come in , i go outside spread them out and using a spray can , i clear coat them , to make them pretty much water proof, since i'm a steady customer , all i do is send the types of wines and the year, a 6 gallon carboy of finished wine takes 5 sheets, each sheet has 6 labels per sheet, shoot i forget what he charges, since mine are all the same except for the year and type wine, so i send him a list of the types of wine, and year, he sends me a pay-pal invoice, i pay him and he sends me the labels 
my labels say in big letters across the bottom/// Ozark's country wines //
in the middle it says the//// type and year /// at the very bottom in small letters it says /// my name and town and state/// he lives in Canada and has been doing mine for about 6 years now, just email him, tell him Richard Robins sent you, he has a ton of different labels, you can look up his labels on e-bay, but go thru his private email, and it is cheaper then what he gets for them, on e-bay, you can send him a picture as well.
Dawg


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## Betty23

I did a final racking of my DB yesterday and saved some for tasting. I thought I'd share my experience.

A few modifcations to the original recipe: (1) Used about 30oz of lemon juice rather than 48oz; (2) used 11 lbs of fruit (8lbs of costco triple mixed berry and 3lbs of costco blueberries); (3) did not backsweeten. All rackings combined, I topped off with a total of a couple liters of pinot griggio and about 400ml of regular brandy.

I let it sit for three weeks before racking again and using finings. Then let it sit for another three weeks and racked again. Tomorrow I will bottle.

The result is quite nice. It doesn't need any backsweetening. The fruity aromas come through immediately and one is left with a pleasant sweetness on the tongue. It's not too tart or acidy. My wife really likes it. 

I'm planning on trying a variation of DB with even more fruit - perhaps 15-20lbs, and with a can of Vintner's Harvest blackberry concentrate. 

betty


----------



## KCCam

Betty23 said:


> I did a final racking of my DB yesterday and saved some for tasting. I thought I'd share my experience.
> 
> A few modifcations to the original recipe: (1) Used about 30oz of lemon juice rather than 48oz; (2) used 11 lbs of fruit (8lbs of costco triple mixed berry and 3lbs of costco blueberries); (3) did not backsweeten. All rackings combined, I topped off with a total of a couple liters of pinot griggio and about 400ml of regular brandy.
> 
> I let it sit for three weeks before racking again and using finings. Then let it sit for another three weeks and racked again. Tomorrow I will bottle.
> 
> The result is quite nice. It doesn't need any backsweetening. The fruity aromas come through immediately and one is left with a pleasant sweetness on the tongue. It's not too tart or acidy. My wife really likes it.
> 
> I'm planning on trying a variation of DB with even more fruit - perhaps 15-20lbs, and with a can of Vintner's Harvest blackberry concentrate.
> 
> betty



I use 32 oz as well. 
I use about 11 lbs fruit as well (9 lbs Costco berries, 2 lbs bananas, maybe some raisins or other misc leftovers in the freezer).  
Though you like it with no backsweetening, do some bench trials. Even the smallest amount of sugar can bring the fruit forward without imparting any noticeable sweetness, and so will time. You could save yourself 4-9 lbs of extra fruit, although I know the extra fruit could only help. And brandy? I know it would help the DB too, but, ... I think I would enjoy it more by itself!
Ain't DB great?! 

Oh, and don't forget to add your total to How many gallons of Lon D's Skeeter Pee have been made?. (Yes, it's for DB too.)


----------



## CheerfulHeart

I found 6 pounds of cranberries in my freezer and would love to make a Cranberry Lime Dragon Blood. Would 6 pounds be enough for a full 6 gallon batch, or should I make a 3 gallon batch and use the 6 pounds of fruit? How much lime juice do you recommend? My understanding is lime tends to be a more aggressive flavor than lemon. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!


----------



## G259

I would say 3 gal., and 1/3 the lemon/lime (or use acid blend to recommended amount). My friend makes a Strawberry Cranberry that 'is to die for'.


----------



## KCCam

CheerfulHeart said:


> I found 6 pounds of cranberries in my freezer and would love to make a Cranberry Lime Dragon Blood. Would 6 pounds be enough for a full 6 gallon batch, or should I make a 3 gallon batch and use the 6 pounds of fruit? How much lime juice do you recommend? My understanding is lime tends to be a more aggressive flavor than lemon. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!





G259 said:


> I would say 3 gal., and 1/3 the lemon/lime (or use acid blend to recommended amount). My friend makes a Strawberry Cranberry that 'is to die for'.


I would have to agree with @G259. I've never actually tried DB with 6 lbs of berries, since Costco in Canada sells the triple berry in 2 kg bags (4.4 lbs), I use 2 of them. I also use 32 oz ReaLemon (half), so 16 oz ReaLime (1/3) sounds right. It seems to me cranberries may be acidic too, but I can't vouch for that. I don't think too much fruit would disappoint you, but too little might. You can always adjust your next batch if you think it has potential. 

Let us know what you decide, and how it turns out!


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I would have to agree with @G259. I've never actually tried DB with 6 lbs of berries, since Costco in Canada sells the triple berry in 2 kg bags (4.4 lbs), I use 2 of them. I also use 32 oz ReaLemon (half), so 16 oz ReaLime (1/3) sounds right. It seems to me cranberries may be acidic too, but I can't vouch for that. I don't think too much fruit would disappoint you, but too little might. You can always adjust your next batch if you think it has ten
> 
> Let us know what you decide, and how it turns out!


yes cranberry is very stringent as is blue berry
Dawg


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## dangerdave

Love the conversation, people! You guys are awesome wine makers!
I once crafted a desert wine fortified with brandy based on the DB recipe. “Dragon Port”, I called it. It’s on this web site somewhere. I still have a few bottles from 2013. I’m now inspired to pop one and see how it’s doing. It’s about 22% ABV.


----------



## Aeludor

I made a batch of dragons blood, which is very good. I can't wait to make it again with different fruit. I'm in the process of doing up my crab apple wine again and I was thinking of the process of the DB. Is it a good practice to press all the fruit in mesh bags while stirring even if it's not a skeeter pee, or should I just leave the bag in the fermenter while I stir each day?


----------



## KCCam

dangerdave said:


> Love the conversation, people! You guys are awesome wine makers!
> I once crafted a desert wine fortified with brandy based on the DB recipe. “Dragon Port”, I called it. It’s on this web site somewhere. I still have a few bottles from 2013. I’m now inspired to pop one and see how it’s doing. It’s about 22% ABV.


@dangerdave, yes, I printed that out a few months ago. Dying to make it! It seems to me you won a contest with it too, no? Maybe the Gold Medal Dragon Blood Variant Contest mentioned in your signature?

And you still have a few bottles. WOW. They must be hidden very, very well!


----------



## DizzyIzzy

dangerdave said:


> Love the conversation, people! You guys are awesome wine makers!
> I once crafted a desert wine fortified with brandy based on the DB recipe. “Dragon Port”, I called it. It’s on this web site somewhere. I still have a few bottles from 2013. I’m now inspired to pop one and see how it’s doing. It’s about 22% ABV.


DD, how did you get the ABV that high?.................................................Dizzy


----------



## sour_grapes

dangerdave said:


> Love the conversation, people! You guys are awesome wine makers!
> I once crafted a desert wine fortified with brandy based on the DB recipe. “Dragon Port”, I called it. It’s on this web site somewhere. I still have a few bottles from 2013. I’m now inspired to pop one and see how it’s doing. It’s about 22% ABV.





DizzyIzzy said:


> DD, how did you get the ABV that high?.................................................Dizzy




Dragon Port 2013


----------



## CheerfulHeart

@KCCam, G259 and Dawg ; Thank you for the help about the cranberries! I am going to use 3 pounds of cranberries and 1/3 of the lime juice. I will definitely let everyone know it turns out.

@KCCam: I too use 2 of the 2 kg bags of Triple Berry Blend from Costco for DB. It is very difficult for me to buy only what is on the shopping list when I am there. That's how I ended up with 6 pounds of cranberries.   It was one of those "I bet I could make some kind of wine with these!" purchases. LOL My husband lovingly jokes I should not go shopping in Costco unsupervised because I seldom come out of there without some fruit for future wines.


----------



## KCCam

CheerfulHeart said:


> It is very difficult for me to buy only what is on the shopping list when I am there.


I know, right? Go for a chicken pot pie and a case of Pepsi (sorry, Coke), and walk out thinking “what the heck did I possibly spend $600 on?”


----------



## dangerdave

Aeludor said:


> I made a batch of dragons blood, which is very good. I can't wait to make it again with different fruit. I'm in the process of doing up my crab apple wine again and I was thinking of the process of the DB. Is it a good practice to press all the fruit in mesh bags while stirring even if it's not a skeeter pee, or should I just leave the bag in the fermenter while I stir each day?


It’s still good practice. Squeeze/remove bags, stir, replace bags.


----------



## dangerdave

KCCam said:


> @dangerdave, yes, I printed that out a few months ago. Dying to make it! It seems to me you won a contest with it too, no? Maybe the Gold Medal Dragon Blood Variant Contest mentioned in your signature?
> 
> And you still have a few bottles. WOW. They must be hidden very, very well!



The DB Variation Contest was won by my Sweet Strawberry Tart (strawberry lemon wine). I told them to let me judge, not participate.


----------



## dangerdave

DizzyIzzy said:


> DD, how did you get the ABV that high?.................................................Dizzy



First, used good old EC-1118 and pushed it to its limit though the chaptalization process = 18%. Then I ramped it up by fortifying it with brandy to the desired limit = 22% (maybe a bit higher).


----------



## NJWhino

Johnd said:


> I have a DB variant that I'm trying this year, no lemon juice, acid adjusted with tartaric, Lallzyme EX-V, tsp tannins, 60 lbs triple berry, very little water, sugar to 1.110, KV1-1116 temp spiked up into the high 80's. Been done a few months and sitting in a six and one gallon vessel clearing (got 7 gallons). It was a bear to press with all of the tiny particulate matter from the raspberries and blackberries, they just broke down into sludge. Haven't tasted it yet and probably won't fool with it until this years wine goes into the barrel, smells super good and very fruity so far.



I found the post above from 2018 regarding using Tartaric Acid instead of acid blend or adding "Lemon juice" etc. How did this come out? Does anyone else have any input on using the Tartaric as opposed to citric? I am making the wine for myself and another who has a citrus intolerance so I am looking to keep ALL citrus out of the wine. 

Any input would be appreciated!

Thank You in Advance,
NJWhino


----------



## Rice_Guy

Citric acid is a clean chemical and does not contain citrus the fruit, citric is involved in the metabolism (Krebs cycle) so the body will naturally have and process that molecule. Most citric acid will be produced from microbial fermentation.

the lab bench answer is I like the flavor of tartaric more than citric,
however if you can find it reagent grade phosphoric pushes pH better and also has a really clean flavor.


NJWhino said:


> I found the post above from 2018 regarding using Tartaric Acid instead of acid blend or adding "Lemon juice" etc. How did this come out? Does anyone else have any input on using the Tartaric as opposed to citric? I am making the wine for myself and another who has a citrus intolerance so I am looking to keep ALL citrus out of the wine.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated!
> 
> Thank You in Advance,
> NJWhino


----------



## BernardSmith

Great question and this is not an answer from experience but one from a thought experiment, as it were. Different fruits have different dominant acids - so grapes have tartaric but they also have malic. I think they may also have a tiny amount of citric. But if you want to highlight the grape -ness of a wine you wouldn't want to add malic - That's the dominant acid in apples and citric can cause problems because when it breaks down. It can create flavors and compounds that you may not prefer. So, my response would be to determine what are the dominant acids in the fruit you are fermenting and if there is any need to add more acidity then use the dominant acids in the proportions they are present.


----------



## Johnd

NJWhino said:


> I found the post above from 2018 regarding using Tartaric Acid instead of acid blend or adding "Lemon juice" etc. How did this come out? Does anyone else have any input on using the Tartaric as opposed to citric? I am making the wine for myself and another who has a citrus intolerance so I am looking to keep ALL citrus out of the wine.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated!
> 
> Thank You in Advance,
> NJWhino


A little blast from the past! I actually have a few bottles of this wine recipe left, not from this particular batch, but one from a later batch. I'm not intolerant of the citric acid, just preferred not to have it in my DB wine. The biggest affect on taste, I believe, was the sheer quantity of fruit used, it's a fruit wine as opposed to a fruit flavored wine, and everyone really likes it. You might want to check, but some of the fruit in the mix may have citric acid in them naturally, so you may not get away from citric acid entirely, but you definitely don't have to add any extra to the mix.........


----------



## NJWhino

Johnd said:


> A little blast from the past! I actually have a few bottles of this wine recipe left, not from this particular batch, but one from a later batch. I'm not intolerant of the citric acid, just preferred not to have it in my DB wine. The biggest affect on taste, I believe, was the sheer quantity of fruit used, it's a fruit wine as opposed to a fruit flavored wine, and everyone really likes it. You might want to check, but some of the fruit in the mix may have citric acid in them naturally, so you may not get away from citric acid entirely, but you definitely don't have to add any extra to the mix.........



Thank You for the quick replies everyone!

John - So thats my thought.. is why add more citric and hence my thought about the Tartaric... I have never added it to any wines before. It also seems very difficult to find ANY info regarding qty to add etc. How did you figure out what to add? I know there's probably not a hard/fast rule for this but maybe just a starting point?

Thanks!


----------



## Johnd

NJWhino said:


> Thank You for the quick replies everyone!
> 
> John - So thats my thought.. is why add more citric and hence my thought about the Tartaric... I have never added it to any wines before. It also seems very difficult to find ANY info regarding qty to add etc. How did you figure out what to add? I know there's probably not a hard/fast rule for this but maybe just a starting point?
> 
> Thanks!



In grape wines, we generally only add tartaric acid, as it's the most prevalent acid present in grapes. It's good to try to keep the pH around 3.6, and the TA in the 6 g/L range, so the amount you need to add depends upon the pH and TA of your must, you'll obviously need a pH meter to test the must once it's assembled and adjust as / if needed. If you don't have or want to get a pH meter, you could try the test strips, but they are hard to read with red colored musts.........


----------



## NJWhino

Johnd said:


> In grape wines, we generally only add tartaric acid, as it's the most prevalent acid present in grapes. It's good to try to keep the pH around 3.6, and the TA in the 6 g/L range, so the amount you need to add depends upon the pH and TA of your must, you'll obviously need a pH meter to test the must once it's assembled and adjust as / if needed. If you don't have or want to get a pH meter, you could try the test strips, but they are hard to read with red colored musts.........


John,

I am talking about adding Tartaric Acid into the Dragon Blood INSTEAD of Citric Acid (or Lemon Juice etc).

NJW


----------



## Johnd

NJWhino said:


> John,
> 
> I am talking about adding Tartaric Acid into the Dragon Blood INSTEAD of Citric Acid (or Lemon Juice etc).
> 
> NJW


I understand that completely, and I am in agreement with what you are proposing to do. You plan to do your DB adjusting with only tartaric, same thing I do............ I'm suggesting that you use the 3.6pH and 6 TA as your guideline for tartaric additions.


----------



## DizzyIzzy

dangerdave said:


> First, used good old EC-1118 and pushed it to its limit though the chaptalization process = 18%. Then I ramped it up by fortifying it with brandy to the desired limit = 22% (maybe a bit higher).


Good to know, thanks...........................DizzyIzzy


----------



## pandakatelyn

This is my first time not using a kit. I'm at step 5, about to backsweeten, but it's still smelling yeasty. Is this normal? It's been stable and airlock is showing no bubbling.


----------



## G259

Is it totally clear? How long since first ferment? Have you racked off of the lees? I'm sorry if these questions are 'talking down' to you, but I'm just trying to get a basis for your wine knowledge (not that mine is in any way superior!)


----------



## pandakatelyn

G259 said:


> Is it totally clear? How long since first ferment? Have you racked off of the lees? I'm sorry if these questions are 'talking down' to you, but I'm just trying to get a basis for your wine knowledge (not that mine is in any way superior!)


Started it on 11/23, its totally clear. Just racked it for a 2nd time today to get the rest of the lees out. I haven't added the sugar yet (that was the next step) because I'm afraid of a secondary fermentation. Starting SG was 1.070, it's been sitting at 0.095 for a week.


----------



## sour_grapes

pandakatelyn said:


> Started it on 11/23, its totally clear. Just racked it for a 2nd time today to get the rest of the lees out. I haven't added the sugar yet (that was the next step) because I'm afraid of a secondary fermentation. Starting SG was 1.070, it's been sitting at 0.095 for a week.



Waiting for it to settle out is a fine idea. (BTW, your SG is likely 0.995, note 0.095.) You should add potassium sorbate before you add the sugar, but I bet you knew that!

And welcome to WMT, by the way!


----------



## pandakatelyn

sour_grapes said:


> Waiting for it to settle out is a fine idea. (BTW, your SG is likely 0.995, note 0.095.) You should add potassium sorbate before you add the sugar, but I bet you knew that!
> 
> And welcome to WMT, by the way!


Thank you! I'll leave it for another week to see what happens before messing with it more. My goal was to bottle for Christmas gifts.


----------



## sour_grapes

pandakatelyn said:


> Thank you! I'll leave it for another week to see what happens before messing with it more. My goal was to bottle for Christmas gifts.



Oh, I see. No one here (well, _almost_ no one here) would think less of you if you rushed it a bit for Christmas. Just follow the recipe, sorbate, then backsweeten to taste. If you rush a bit, it is possible your bottles will drop a little sediment. It is up to you whether that bothers you (and/or your guests) or not.


----------



## G259

. . . and most country wine gifts are drank before possible settling! As far as back-sweetening, go slow, it's easy to over-do it.


----------



## pandakatelyn

Just backsweetened today with 4 cups of sugar and it went from .0995 to 1.000. It tastes beautiful and is crystal clear. Going to leave it to settle until Christmas Eve to bottle.


----------



## RocketBee

Has anyone following this thread modified this recipe to use honey instead of sugar to make a mead/melomel? I did a search and have seen several folks who back sweeten with honey, but only one who used it instead of the sugar. His comment was it didn't make that much of a difference to justify the cost. I realize most folks here don't want to spend the extra currency to pay for honey. But for the few folks out there who are beekeepers (like me), it might make some sense. Just curious and, if there is anyone, would love to hear your comments.


----------



## fsa46

pandakatelyn said:


> Just backsweetened today with 4 cups of sugar and it went from .0995 to 1.000. It tastes beautiful and is crystal clear. Going to leave it to settle until Christmas Eve to bottle.



Obviously you enjoy dry wine, as do many. I backsweeten all my wines, Dragons Blood and Skeeter Pee to 1.02 . That's what is great about making your own wines, you make it the way you like.


----------



## pandakatelyn

fsa46 said:


> Obviously you enjoy dry wine, as do many. I backsweeten all my wines, Dragons Blood and Skeeter Pee to 1.02 . That's what is great about making your own wines, you make it the way you like.


I sure do!! I really like how this tastes dry. Going to make an extra sweet batch next time around.


----------



## Chinook

Making a* Dragon Daze* or *Tropical Dragon Blood or Tropical Daze.*
Three gallon carboy batch
...
The Lime bottles here are 440 ml, the packages of fruit are 600 gm
I'm making a 3 gallon batch (Actually 3 gallons + 2 litre (overflow)
So my calculations are for 11,356 litres + 2 litres = 13.356 litres
I process the overflow in plastic bottles of which I have very very many of all sizes.
I use overflow bottles because I like to make sure I always top up on racking and reracking.
And this may have a lot of lees.

Just started SG of base liquid = 1.094, SG of liquid when all fruit was added is 1.090

Volume in primary was 13.3 litres and after fruit addition was (very approximate) of must may have been 17.5 litres , the final separated stuff after fermentation will probably be maybe a litre over 3 gallons., I'm guessing.. I may have done some overkill with my overflow bottle method.
..
I stopped using the squeeze method. I just mash or chop the fruit in a blender.
Yeah I have to hand filter the must into a carboy through a kitchen strainer and keep unplugging the strainer but I was ending up doing that anyway with the squeeze method so I finally said to myself "why bother? " with that.
Cutting up the pineapple was very tedious
Calculated using 834 ml of the lime juice.

The base weight of the fruit packs was 1800 gms = 3.96 lbs which is over the 3.53 lbs needed
Bananas and pineapple are extra.
As for acidity...I wondering about that - I should get into the use of a ph meter? and acid blend? I don't know anything about those things.


----------



## Chinook

I thought my Dragon Daze was stalled - seemed dead.
I added yeast nutrient and yeast energizer - no reaction *What??!!
Took the SG was .990*
Fermentation was done in four days or less!!!


----------



## G259

Nice, but lesson learned, SG is king!


----------



## pandakatelyn

Bottled yesterday, 25 total. Now to seal these bad boys up in some gold bottle seal and send them off to their homes.


----------



## crushday

pandakatelyn said:


> Bottled yesterday, 25 total. Now to seal these bad boys up in some gold bottle seal and send them off to their homes.
> 
> View attachment 69635
> View attachment 69636


Tell me about that upright grand...


----------



## pandakatelyn

crushday said:


> Tell me about that upright grand...


It's actually the landlords! I wish I owned it haha. I honestly don't know anything about it.


----------



## Chinook

pandakatelyn said:


> Just backsweetened today with 4 cups of sugar and it went from .0995 to 1.000. It tastes beautiful and is crystal clear. Going to leave it to settle until Christmas Eve to bottle.


I haven't seen that SG method of back-sweetening before.
....
I'm about to bottle six gallons of Dragon Blood , traditional recipe. It's ready on the 25th though I should be doing that on boxing Day.
I used 4 berry blend (Walmart - Strawberies, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries) - 5 packages 5 * 600 gm = 3 KG = 6.6 pounds _(edit, fixed) _and a little bit more than the 1430 ml (48 oz ) lemon juice because I use an overflow bottle method .
That means I make more than 6 gals in the carboy and process the overflow in plastic airtight bottles which I have all kinds, of sizes.many many many. 
This way I never short the ullage in the carboy.
..
Anyway, color is beautiful , well settled with sparkloid and I will filter it through a one micron filter before bottling.
Four cups of sugar for 6 gallons is 2/3 cup per gallon.
I use ratios in calculations so I can easily know how to back sweeten any amount. 
eg for one bottle , I can multiply 750 by .0208333 (which is 1/3 cup per gallon ratio ) = 15.62 ml sugar (granulated) = 3 tsp level..
And I use Betty Crocker level measuring cup system in ml.

1/4 is .015625
1/3 is .0208333
1/2 is .03125
2/3 is .041666
3/4 is .0468748
1 CPG = .062500 which I think was Dangerdave's original preference..

I got it all written out and use my chart so it is easy.

I've been experimenting a lot trying to find the optimal sweetness, that still brings out the taste , makes it palatable and doesn't mask the taste.
I pretty sure that the taste of fruit wines doesn't come out without sugar.
And I think maybe if I tweak a grape wine with fruit then back sweeten helps bring out the fruit taste.
Seemed that way on my Merlot tweaked with cherries - hasn't aged yet so I am not sure..

I've pretty much settled on 1/3 cup per gallon for everything DB, Reds and Whites.
So far anyway.

I pretty sure that the taste of fruit wines doesn't come out without sugar.

Like for the last about 5 or so kits (just the grape not DB) reds and whites I've bottled 8-12 dry , some to give to my sugar adverse friends and some for myself to try to see if I'm masking the taste by not trying dry.
I'm not sure because I don't have the results yet but I think some for me are pretty ok dry and some not for me
I'm not sure about my optimal sweetness levels
I gotta do a lot more testing... and testing... and testing..
A tough job and a long haul but I guess it's gotta be done.


----------



## RocketBee

@Chinook , really appreciate the information as I've only done two batches of DB so far. First one I back-sweetened with 2/3 per gallon. The last one I backed it off to 1/2 cup per gallon. Next one I try I think I'll go with 1/3 cup like you prefer. I saved one bottle from my first batch. My lovely bride and I along with our four daughters will be comparing them at some point this next week. I think they're going to like Batch #2 at 1/2 cup per gallon better. We will see...and as you say...testing and testing...and testing. Merry Christmas.


----------



## G259

I tested commercial wines, and the results were interesting. I used Woodbridge: Chardonnay 1.000, Cab. Sav. 1.000, Pinot Grigio 1.150, Reisling (Kabinette) 1.010, Blanc. .996.


----------



## G259

. . . however, the sg is also balanced with the acid. If there is more acid present, the sugar will be less perceived by the tongue. I once added too much sugar to a batch, and was told here to add acid blend, and it worked. So, the sg is not the absolute measure of the perceived sweetness of a wine, acid HAS to be figured into the equation as well.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

I just finished the last bottle of my most recent batch of DB Classic. I had topped up that batch with some very inexpensive Cab Sauv because I didn't have Zinfandel available. I would definitely do the Cab Sauv top up again  Time to break out the brew belt and get another batch going


----------



## Howe1999

Just started this wine today, I'm really excited to try it. This is my second time making wine.


----------



## pandakatelyn

CheerfulHeart said:


> I just finished the last bottle of my most recent batch of DB Classic. I had topped up that batch with some very inexpensive Cab Sauv because I didn't have Zinfandel available. I would definitely do the Cab Sauv top up again  Time to break out the brew belt and get another batch going


Oooo, I need to try that!! I used white zin last time and I was curious what it'd be with a darker wine.


----------



## G259

H - if this is your second time, make sure you take notes, this is the best advice that I have ever gotten.! My memory is bad, but even yours probably will not hold up.
Notes, notes, notes, and you can refer back to them later. You can ask here, but referring back is the best way.


----------



## pandakatelyn

Starting a new batch soon. Was curious if anyone has tried adding pineapple or orange juice in place of the lemon?


----------



## Chinook

pandakatelyn said:


> Starting a new batch soon. Was curious if anyone has tried adding pineapple or orange juice in place of the lemon?


Tropical Daze Recipe uses Pineapple Juice.





Tropical Daze


Tropical Daze Ingredients •	Water to about six gallons •	20 cups of white granulated sugar (looking for a SG between 1.085-1.090) •	8 cups Honey use to bring SG up to desired amount •	2 – 48 oz Cans Dole Pineapple Juice •	1 tsp. tannin •	4 tsp. yeast nutrient •	2 tsp. yeast energizer •	3...




www.winemakingtalk.com





Orange is an interesting idea


----------



## pandakatelyn

Got 3 batches in the works now...cherry very berry is in the carboy to clear, and 2 tropicals are going. Pineapple, mango, strawberry blend. One has peaches and I plan on adding peach flavoring towards the end for that extra punch. Going to be tasty for hotter months.


----------



## Chinook

pandakatelyn said:


> Got 3 batches in the works now...cherry very berry is in the carboy to clear, and 2 tropicals are going. Pineapple, mango, strawberry blend. One has peaches and I plan on adding peach flavoring towards the end for that extra punch. Going to be tasty for hotter months.


By co-incidence I just got Peach flavouring , 4 oz supposed to be full flavour for 4 gallons, $9.50 from my local wine kit shop.


I just bottled a Tropical Lime, 3 gallons + some overflow bottles , 
13.6 ABV - final ABV after backsweetening to 1/3 cup per gallon sugar ratio. (.0208333)
Recipe: 
* made from Lime (Dragon Blood Ratio)
* two pineapples - sliced and diced out the fruit,
* three pounds bananas,
* and two pkgs Mangoes frozen fruit at 600 gm each + i pkg tropical fruit blend ,
Total gm frozen fruit = 1800 gm. = 2.6 lbs.


----------



## pandakatelyn

Chinook said:


> By co-incidence I just got Peach flavouring , 4 oz supposed to be full flavour for 4 gallons, $9.50 from my local wine kit shop.


Let me know how you like it! I'm making a list to hit up my local shop this weekend.


----------



## Chinook

pandakatelyn said:


> Let me know how you like it! I'm making a list to hit up my local shop this weekend.


They have about 30-50 flavors there even Habanero (hot)!

Here: See for yourself. website with pictures.
Also pdf's for contents of each flavorings (amt sorbate etc)





__





NATURAL FLAVORINGS







www.brewersbestkits.com


----------



## G259

They can't make it hot enough for me! Ooo Ooo! Gotta Go! . . .


----------



## pandakatelyn

One last question.. This is the first recipe I've used outside of a kit, and I'm curious why you leave the lid loose/cover with towel and not use an airlock? Hoping for some education! Just got a PLAATO airlock for some other brews and wanted to give it a whirl with a DB.


----------



## cmason1957

pandakatelyn said:


> One last question.. This is the first recipe I've used outside of a kit, and I'm curious why you leave the lid loose/cover with towel and not use an airlock? Hoping for some education! Just got a PLAATO airlock for some other brews and wanted to give it a whirl with a DB.



there's a simpler answer to that than you might think. Most of us don't use an airlock for primary fermentation at all. Personally, I use one for white wines or things I really am trying to maintain the volatile fragrances, but otherwise, just a slight covering over the top.

Both ways work just fine, your wine produces plenty of CO2 during primary fermentation to prevent oxidation and the yest don't mind the extra oxygen they get at that point.


----------



## Chinook

pandakatelyn said:


> One last question.. This is the first recipe I've used outside of a kit, and I'm curious why you leave the lid loose/cover with towel and not use an airlock? Hoping for some education! Just got a PLAATO airlock for some other brews and wanted to give it a whirl with a DB.


While it is fermenting, it needs air, when it is aging or extremely last stages of fermentation -very slow fermenting or simply bullk aging to the end then air can oxidize the wine and is the enemy..

When SG drops to near .990 then I transfer to carboy, I let any minor fermentation or settling take place for the next 3 to 7 days then I stabilize the wine (sulphide + sorbate then add fining agents)


----------



## Chinook

pandakatelyn said:


> One last question.. This is the first recipe I've used outside of a kit, and I'm curious why you leave the lid loose/cover with towel and not use an airlock? Hoping for some education! Just got a PLAATO airlock for some other brews and wanted to give it a whirl with a DB.


I think the PLAATO was designed for use primarily wih brewing Ales and Beers? I am just researching up on it now. Let us know your experience with it.


----------



## Howe1999

Can I degas this in the primary fermenter bucket? its much easier then doing it in a carboy.


----------



## Chinook

Howe1999 said:


> Can I degas this in the primary fermenter bucket? its much easier then doing it in a carboy.


How are you degassing? What makes it easier?


----------



## NJWhino

Chinook said:


> How are you degassing? What makes it easier?



Howe1999 & Chinook -

I bit the proverbial bullet and purchased the *All-In-One Wine (AIO) Pump* and it is _AMAZING!_ In addition to making my life MUCH easier during racking, it also _*DEGASSES*_ your wine at the same time using a negative pressure vacuum! As well - it has also made bottling a cinch! It takes me the same time to rack (and DEGAS) 2x-3x 6-gallon carboys using the AIO as it used to take me to xfer ONE using the traditional siphon/gravity method. I suggest you look into it. There are PLENTY of message threads here on WMT where you can find reviews/setup help/pictures/etc for the AIO.

Good Luck!

NJW


----------



## Chinook

NJWhino said:


> Howe1999 & Chinook -
> 
> I bit the proverbial bullet and purchased the *All-In-One Wine (AIO) Pump* and it is _AMAZING!_ In addition to making my life MUCH easier during racking, it also _*DEGASSES*_ your wine at the same time using a negative pressure vacuum! As well - it has also made bottling a cinch! It takes me the same time to rack (and DEGAS) 2x-3x 6-gallon carboys using the AIO as it used to take me to xfer ONE using the traditional siphon/gravity method. I suggest you look into it. There are PLENTY of message threads here on WMT where you can find reviews/setup help/pictures/etc for the AIO.
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> NJW


Sounds good. Yeah currently I am using a Better Crocker cake mixer, also a drill.
I made stir stixs from some kind of PVC flexible pipe and cut the ends. It opens up inside the carboy. The other end is cut to attach it to the mixer.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

pandakatelyn said:


> Oooo, I need to try that!! I used white zin last time and I was curious what it'd be with a darker wine.


The other thing I might try is using just a little bit less lemon juice if I plan to top up with the red wine. I'm thinking maybe about 4 ounces less.


----------



## Fencepost

@CheerfulHeart @pandakatelyn last two DDDB I did with blackberries, I added grape wine (that I had made) I used a 90/10 ratio... 90% DD Blackberry and 10% Cab Sav on one and one a 90/10 DD Blackberry/Pinot Noir.... I like the grape wine in the mix... really adds something to it. I tried other ratios 50/50 75/25 but ended up with what I liked best... 90/10. It also deepens the red to a very pretty "Christmas" Red. Hope you find what works best for you!


----------



## Chinook

Fencepost said:


> @CheerfulHeart @pandakatelyn last two DDDB I did with blackberries, I added grape wine (that I had made) I used a 90/10 ratio... 90% DD Blackberry and 10% Cab Sav on one and one a 90/10 DD Blackberry/Pinot Noir.... I like the grape wine in the mix... really adds something to it. I tried other ratios 50/50 75/25 but ended up with what I liked best... 90/10. It also deepens the red to a very pretty "Christmas" Red. Hope you find what works best for you!


Very useful information. A ten percent blend is very economical. I will try this blend formula


----------



## MarcOlivetti

*DDDB foaming at bottling ?* I jumped in with both feet and started the DDDB as outlined on page 1 using the tri-berry blend as called for (I did add 1lb fzn Cherries I had sitting in the freezer). I followed each step, making sure I hit each benchmark & SG. At Step 4 the SG = 0.998 for 3 days, I racked using my new AIO (thanks Steve) adding the 1/4tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite, then racked and the next day (using AIO) adding the Sparkoloid (as directed), & topped of with a med white zin. After 1 week the wine cleared really well.

Step 5 with clear wine I racked off 1gal and then addding 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate the rest into “clean & sanitized” carboy (having fun with the AIO) I racked again 2 days later backsweetening to 1.008 (overshot target of 1.005), then waited another week, then decided to filter .5micron (yes, I love the AIO), and waited another week before bottling (no movement on SG).

Here’s where I think I have a problem!

Using my new bottling attachment, the DDDB has about a1/2” of foam at the top of each 750ml bottle, I thought it was just the Star San at first, but at the 4th bottle I’m thinking “well this isn’t right”; I stop bottling and grab one of the first bottled (still has foam sitting on top after 2-3min) and cover with hand & shake. Yes, got the “pop” and more foam! Screaming not degassed?? ok then, I stop and clean up from bottling and break out the drill and wine whip. I get quite a bit of foam on top (maybe 2”) and degas ~30-40min. Put an airlock back on and cover Carboy.

3 days later foam is gone, so I shake the Carboy and here comes the foam, but no bubbles? Next day foam is gone so I switch over to Steve’s Headspace Eliminator (HE) no bubbles but a little foam. A week later I shake again and here comes the foam again. I replace the HE with airlock, cover the carboy, scratch my head and bum!

I'm at a loss.? Any insights??


----------



## Johnd

MarcOlivetti said:


> *DDDB foaming at bottling ?* I jumped in with both feet and started the DDDB as outlined on page 1 using the tri-berry blend as called for (I did add 1lb fzn Cherries I had sitting in the freezer). I followed each step, making sure I hit each benchmark & SG. At Step 4 the SG = 0.998 for 3 days, I racked using my new AIO (thanks Steve) adding the 1/4tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite, then racked and the next day (using AIO) adding the Sparkoloid (as directed), & topped of with a med white zin. After 1 week the wine cleared really well.
> 
> Step 5 with clear wine I racked off 1gal and then addding 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate the rest into “clean & sanitized” carboy (having fun with the AIO) I racked again 2 days later backsweetening to 1.008 (overshot target of 1.005), then waited another week, then decided to filter .5micron (yes, I love the AIO), and waited another week before bottling (no movement on SG).
> 
> Here’s where I think I have a problem!
> 
> Using my new bottling attachment, the DDDB has about a1/2” of foam at the top of each 750ml bottle, I thought it was just the Star San at first, but at the 4th bottle I’m thinking “well this isn’t right”; I stop bottling and grab one of the first bottled (still has foam sitting on top after 2-3min) and cover with hand & shake. Yes, got the “pop” and more foam! Screaming not degassed?? ok then, I stop and clean up from bottling and break out the drill and wine whip. I get quite a bit of foam on top (maybe 2”) and degas ~30-40min. Put an airlock back on and cover Carboy.
> 
> 3 days later foam is gone, so I shake the Carboy and here comes the foam, but no bubbles? Next day foam is gone so I switch over to Steve’s Headspace Eliminator (HE) no bubbles but a little foam. A week later I shake again and here comes the foam again. I replace the HE with airlock, cover the carboy, scratch my head and bum!
> 
> I'm at a loss.? Any insights??


Slow done, take a breath, smell the triple berry flowers. Your wine is super young, has been through a lot of changes in a short time, and a lot of processing. It will degas on its own, if simply left alone.

If you must, you can speed it up by vacuum racking and / or whipping, or simply pulling a vacuum on your carboy. Pretty sure the AIO pump pulls 22 - 25 in Hg, get your wine into the mid 70’s for best results.


----------



## MarcOlivetti

Thanks! I was worried I had missed or did something wrong and after several hours of reading, I thought I would ask. At least I had enough sense to stop and didn’t make ~30 wine bombs . Slowing down and letting it degas on its own, I can do. It probably didn’t help that I moved it from the heated fermenter area to the unheated work area which is at 55* slowing the process down. I was making for summer consumption anywayThank you for talking me down off the trellis!


----------



## SassyBoots

Hi Everyone!! I'm a complete newb to the world of Dragon Blood Wine. Just in the midst of my first batch. I've always just made kit wines. I'm making my way through the posts in this thread, but there are SO many lol. I just did straight blueberry this time, and I think it might be a bit thin because I didn't read far enough into the thread to see its ok to go heavier on the fruit....so that will be for the upcoming batches. 

I'm curious to know if anyone has tried using Rhubarb or Rhubarb/Raspberry or maybe Sour Cherry using Danger Daves recipe? I have a ton of both the Sour Cherries and Rhubarb in my freezer. I'm not experienced enough in this recipe to know what tweaks the recipe would need with such tart/acidic fruit? Has any one tried this?


----------



## KCCam

MarcOlivetti said:


> Thanks! I was worried I had missed or did something wrong and after several hours of reading, I thought I would ask. At least I had enough sense to stop and didn’t make ~30 wine bombs . Slowing down and letting it degas on its own, I can do. It probably didn’t help that I moved it from the heated fermenter area to the unheated work area which is at 55* slowing the process down. I was making for summer consumption anywayThank you for talking me down off the trellis!


I know it's been a couple weeks. How's it going? Yah, gas dissolves in liquid much better at colder temps, so warming it up helps degas. Also, you don't make bombs with wine that isn't completely degassed. That just adds a little tingle to the tongue when you drink it. Bombs come from wine that is still *making *CO2 (ie, still fermenting) in the bottle.

Also, the headspace eliminator isn't meant for degassing, it's meant for bulk aging. If you are degassing with the AIO, rather than with time, you have to keep applying the vacuum. The first time you pull a vacuum on a batch, you do it very slowly, because you can make a huge mess with all the foam that *suddenly* appears. I use a vacuum gauge on mine, the HE is not a good indicator of vacuum. The first time, 22" of vacuum will return to 0 in just a few minutes as the CO2 is released. The next time it takes a little longer. Once the vacuum remains constant, or almost so, *then *there is very little CO2 left in the wine. Think of it this way: with 100 ml headspace, using a HE, you can only remove 100 ml of CO2 at a time. If you pull a vacuum and leave a HE on the carboy, it might still be collapsed at 3" vacuum (or 0, if it sticks), which won't be doing much to release any more. However, even though it's not a vacuum, it *IS *mostly CO2 - so no oxygen, thus protecting the wine from oxidation. Careful though, because wine left to degas naturally over time isn't actually fully degassed either. It's in equilibrium with the amount of CO2 in the air above it. Removing more CO2 than would naturally be released over time might leave the wine seeming a little flat, or so I've heard. I have a 2 L reservoir on my AIO setup, in addition to the standard 750 ml wine bottle, so when I pull a vacuum and turn the pump off, it takes almost 3 L of CO2 to equalize the pressure instead of only maybe 100 ml.


----------



## KCCam

SassyBoots said:


> Hi Everyone!! I'm a complete newb to the world of Dragon Blood Wine. Just in the midst of my first batch. I've always just made kit wines. I'm making my way through the posts in this thread, but there are SO many lol. I just did straight blueberry this time, and I think it might be a bit thin because I didn't read far enough into the thread to see its ok to go heavier on the fruit....so that will be for the upcoming batches.
> 
> I'm curious to know if anyone has tried using Rhubarb or Rhubarb/Raspberry or maybe Sour Cherry using Danger Daves recipe? I have a ton of both the Sour Cherries and Rhubarb in my freezer. I'm not experienced enough in this recipe to know what tweaks the recipe would need with such tart/acidic fruit? Has any one tried this?


Hey, welcome to the wonderful world of DB! This was my first foray into non-kit wine too. It is awesome. You can literally make it any way you want. Even with no fruit you basically get Skeeter Pee, so it is very hard to make an undrinkable DB, in my humble opinion. If your batch is still fermenting, and maybe even if it's not, you could always add more fruit now. Put in a few bananas, or a pound or 2 of raisins, both of which will add mouth feel without altering the taste much, if at all. I actually did that with a Skeeter Pee that just wasn't working for me. After several weeks, I added all the berries I could find in my freezer, and more sugar and yeast, and voila! DB.

When you get far enough into the thread you will come across my sour cherry version. It turned out excellent. We have Evans cherries here in Alberta. Very pale pink flesh, not too sour to eat when ripe but more than a few at a time would be too much. I used 11 lbs (with pits) plus 4.5 lbs fresh blueberries and 2 pounds of bananas (with skins) for 6 gal. I think the color would be lacking without the blueberries, which impart a beautiful DB red. I haven't tried rhubarb, but my sister has a bunch I may try something with this year. I've read it can be extremely acidic, so I might wait until I invest in a pH meter. She also has about 50 lbs of plums I may try a full-blown country wine with, and a DB variant if there's any left over.


----------



## SassyBoots

KCCam said:


> Hey, welcome to the wonderful world of DB! This was my first foray into non-kit wine too. It is awesome. You can literally make it any way you want. Even with no fruit you basically get Skeeter Pee, so it is very hard to make an undrinkable DB, in my humble opinion. If your batch is still fermenting, and maybe even if it's not, you could always add more fruit now. Put in a few bananas, or a pound or 2 of raisins, both of which will add mouth feel without altering the taste much, if at all. I actually did that with a Skeeter Pee that just wasn't working for me. After several weeks, I added all the berries I could find in my freezer, and more sugar and yeast, and voila! DB.
> 
> When you get far enough into the thread you will come across my sour cherry version. It turned out excellent. We have Evans cherries here in Alberta. Very pale pink flesh, not too sour to eat when ripe but more than a few at a time would be too much. I used 11 lbs (with pits) plus 4.5 lbs fresh blueberries and 2 pounds of bananas (with skins) for 6 gal. I think the color would be lacking without the blueberries, which impart a beautiful DB red. I haven't tried rhubarb, but my sister has a bunch I may try something with this year. I've read it can be extremely acidic, so I might wait until I invest in a pH meter. She also has about 50 lbs of plums I may try a full-blown country wine with, and a DB variant if there's any left over.


Hello Back!!! I am also from Alberta!! Edmonton here. I have a very small sour cherry tree in my back yard, not enough for wine,(usually get enough for some goodies or a batch of jam) but I have a friend that has several trees so finding your recipe will be a bonus. Rhubarb is really acidic, yes. Tried to make a batch with a rhubarb/sour cherry blend a few years ago and was flying blind as I couldn't find a good recipe anywhere to follow. Was not a good experiment lol. However, I've since found what looks like a decent standard recipe for Rhubarb so I'll be trying that. As far as the DB goes, I'm already in love lol. Premature, but I'm sampling a very, very young glass with a bit of sweetener in it and its wonderful-even though I should be leaving it alone for another week I couldn't help myself, the color is amazing, its cleared beautifully, and I figured what the heck?? I'll be racking and sweetening this weekend anyway. A little on the acidic side because its straight blueberry, but still quite tasty. Can't wait to see how it ages out a bit. I'm already chomping at the bit to get another batch started but I'll go a bit heavier on the fruit. I am going to have an absolute blast playing with this recipe....I have three primaries and seven carboys(I inherited some supplies lol) and I can see them getting a workout with this!!


----------



## KCCam

SassyBoots said:


> I am also from Alberta!! Edmonton here.


Nice to meet you. I grew up in Edmonton, Capilano area. Live in Sherwood Park now.


SassyBoots said:


> I've since found what looks like a decent standard recipe for Rhubarb so I'll be trying that.


I wouldn't mind taking a look at that. Could you maybe PM it to me?


SassyBoots said:


> even though I should be leaving it alone for another week


Seriously? No way, I sample at every step along the way.


SassyBoots said:


> the color is amazing


That's what got me. I was searching for something else, and happened upon the Picture from DangerDave's recipe. I was hooked by that alone.


SassyBoots said:


> I have three primaries and seven carboys(I inherited some supplies lol)


That's how I got my start. I used to enjoy the odd bottle I got from my uncle, then inherited his equipment when he passed... about the same amount as you. Then I doubled up for $50 at a garage sale last summer. Got some big things on my "To Do" list before I'm allowed to start another batch. Arrggg.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I know it's been a couple weeks. How's it going? Yah, gas dissolves in liquid much better at colder temps, so warming it up helps degas. Also, you don't make bombs with wine that isn't completely degassed. That just adds a little tingle to the tongue when you drink it. Bombs come from wine that is still *making *CO2 (ie, still fermenting) in the bottle.
> 
> Also, the headspace eliminator isn't meant for degassing, it's meant for bulk aging. If you are degassing with the AIO, rather than with time, you have to keep applying the vacuum. The first time you pull a vacuum on a batch, you do it very slowly, because you can make a huge mess with all the foam that *suddenly* appears. I use a vacuum gauge on mine, the HE is not a good indicator of vacuum. The first time, 22" of vacuum will return to 0 in just a few minutes as the CO2 is released. The next time it takes a little longer. Once the vacuum remains constant, or almost so, *then *there is very little CO2 left in the wine. Think of it this way: with 100 ml headspace, using a HE, you can only remove 100 ml of CO2 at a time. If you pull a vacuum and leave a HE on the carboy, it might still be collapsed at 3" vacuum (or 0, if it sticks), which won't be doing much to release any more. However, even though it's not a vacuum, it *IS *mostly CO2 - so no oxygen, thus protecting the wine from oxidation. Careful though, because wine left to degas naturally over time isn't actually fully degassed either. It's in equilibrium with the amount of CO2 in the air above it. Removing more CO2 than would naturally be released over time might leave the wine seeming a little flat, or so I've heard. I have a 2 L reservoir on my AIO setup, in addition to the standard 750 ml wine bottle, so when I pull a vacuum and turn the pump off, it takes almost 3 L of CO2 to equalize the pressure instead of only maybe 100 ml.


Time is your best ingredient is time, for bulking, for degassing and for maturing your wine, anyone in a hurry then make skeeter pee to spare your fine wines, i unassay make skitter pee at 25 gallons to 32 gallons at a time, thus allowing me to bulk age my better wines for at least 2 years before bottling ,,,
Dawg


----------



## Robert R

How would DB work out with honey replacing some of the sugar? Let's say, 5# honey?


----------



## KCCam

Robert R said:


> How would DB work out with honey replacing some of the sugar? Let's say, 5# honey?


I've read this entire thread (a while ago now), and I can't remember if it's been mentioned. Honestly though, because of the expense for me, it wouldn't stick out in my mind. But if it's cheaper, or equivalent in price for you, go for it. I can't see it having a negative effect. One of the great things about DB is it's so cheap and so quick, and so easy to adjust, there's not many reasons not to try something that strikes your fancy. If you DO try it, make sure you keep us posted!


----------



## KCCam

hounddawg said:


> Time is your best ingredient is time, for bulking, for degassing and for maturing your wine, anyone in a hurry then make skeeter pee to spare your fine wines, i unassay make skitter pee at 25 gallons to 32 gallons at a time, thus allowing me to bulk age my better wines for at least 2 years before bottling ,,,
> Dawg


I'm with you 100%, Dawg, but for me, DB is in the same, "quick drinker" category as Skeeter Pee. In fact, I was drinking my last batch *before* it was bottled...  (Overflow for top-ups is good for topping me up too! )


----------



## Rembee

Robert R said:


> How would DB work out with honey replacing some of the sugar? Let's say, 5# honey?


@Robert R, keep in mind that different honeys will bring different tasting notes to your wine. Ex., orange blossom as opposed to clover honey. Also you want to use a raw honey as opposed to a pastureized honey. You can buy raw honey on Amazon from Florida.
Honey also brings up the SG about .035 points on a hydrometer where sugar will adjust upwards around .046 points. In other words, for every pound of honey to 1 gallon of must you will increase the SG by about .035 points. 
1.060 + .035 = 1.095 SG


----------



## SassyBoots

hounddawg said:


> Time is your best ingredient is time, for bulking, for degassing and for maturing your wine, anyone in a hurry then make skeeter pee to spare your fine wines, i unassay make skitter pee at 25 gallons to 32 gallons at a time, thus allowing me to bulk age my better wines for at least 2 years before bottling ,,,
> Dawg


I'm picking up some more yeast when I go out here right away and will bring up fruit to thaw overnight....going to start another batch tommorrow. The plan is to bottle and leave alone(i hope lol) at least half this batch and the same for the next...and so on and just keep different recipes going....half to drink, half to age. Kind of age. I take my hat off to you Dawg, I don't think I've ever managed to make any of my wine last that long lol!!!! Maybe now with lots on hand I can do it.


----------



## hounddawg

KCCam said:


> I'm with you 100%, Dawg, but for me, DB is in the same, "quick drinker" category as Skeeter Pee. In fact, I was drinking my last batch *before* it was bottled...  (Overflow for top-ups is good for topping me up too! )


I HAD attempted to post to the one post above you that you answered to, BUT i guess skeeter pee port has it in for you,, LMFAO
Dawg


----------



## Robert R

Rembee said:


> @Robert R, keep in mind that different honeys will bring different tasting notes to your wine. Ex., orange blossom as opposed to clover honey. Also you want to use a raw honey as opposed to a pastureized honey. You can buy raw honey on Amazon from Florida.
> Honey also brings up the SG about .035 points on a hydrometer where sugar will adjust upwards around .046 points. In other words, for every pound of honey to 1 gallon of must you will increase the SG by about .035 points.
> 1.060 + .035 = 1.095 SG


I get my honey from the source, my own hives. Wildflower honey, always raw and minimal filtering.


----------



## Rembee

Robert R said:


> I get my honey from the source, my own hives. Wildflower honey, always raw and minimal filtering.


I am a bee keeper also lol.


----------



## hounddawg

due to heath i don't, but most people don't know just how healthy local raw honey is good for your health...
Dawg


----------



## SassyBoots

KCCam said:


> I'm with you 100%, Dawg, but for me, DB is in the same, "quick drinker" category as Skeeter Pee. In fact, I was drinking my last batch *before* it was bottled...  (Overflow for top-ups is good for topping me up too! )


Here is a question, a little off topic. Has anyone had DB go back to being a bit cloudy after sweetening it? I just racked tonite and added the conditioner(wanted to try that rather than sugar....oops)and now its on the cloudy side again. My other wines I've made have never done this, and this stuff was crystal clear when I racked it. I'm thinking I might have racked too close to bottom and gotten some of the lees back in there. What is the solution for this? Just sit tight and wait now? If it doesn't look better in a few days can I give it another little bit of Sparkolloid? I probably spelled that wrong lol . I'm just hoping I didn't ruin it by using the conditoner rather than the sugar. Seemed like a good idea at the time.......


----------



## KCCam

SassyBoots said:


> Here is a question, a little off topic. Has anyone had DB go back to being a bit cloudy after sweetening it? I just racked tonite and added the conditioner(wanted to try that rather than sugar....oops)and now its on the cloudy side again. My other wines I've made have never done this, and this stuff was crystal clear when I racked it. I'm thinking I might have racked too close to bottom and gotten some of the lees back in there. What is the solution for this? Just sit tight and wait now? If it doesn't look better in a few days can I give it another little bit of Sparkolloid? I probably spelled that wrong lol . I'm just hoping I didn't ruin it by using the conditoner rather than the sugar. Seemed like a good idea at the time.......


I don't think it's off topic. This is a DB thread. Was a change in temperature possibly involved? That could mean something else.

The DB recipe calls for Sparkolloid (you spelled it right), but some (including me) find that even after the wine appears perfectly clear, very, very fine sediment still seems to settle out. This doesn't really sound like what you're describing, but before trying more Sparkolloid, I would try Dual Fine (also known as Super Kleer, Claro K.C., or Kieselsol/Chitosan). Time could certainly (and likely) also fix the problem. I wouldn't use conditioner as a back sweetener. I believe it's simply glycerin with potassium sorbate added to it. IMHO it's better to use straight sugar to back sweeten. It's easier to do bench trials with, and cheaper. Stick to the prescribed dose of sorbate, added separately. Glycerin evidently adds mouth feel. I would only add it if you think it needs it, after tasting, and just use glycerin.

If this was my wine, and I had the time, I would wait it out and see what happens. I accidentally stirred up the lees in my last batch after it cleared nicely. I waited a week. Nothing happened. This is supposed to be a quick drinker, and my wife wanted her kitchen back, so I added Kieselsol/Chitosan and bottled 2 days later. If you're going to drink it yourself, it doesn't really matter too much.


----------



## winemanden

Time. Wait and see before you try anything else. You could make it worse. Have a glass, or two, of something else, that always helps.


----------



## SassyBoots

KCCam said:


> I don't think it's off topic. This is a DB thread. Was a change in temperature possibly involved? That could mean something else.
> 
> The DB recipe calls for Sparkolloid (you spelled it right), but some (including me) find that even after the wine appears perfectly clear, very, very fine sediment still seems to settle out. This doesn't really sound like what you're describing, but before trying more Sparkolloid, I would try Dual Fine (also known as Super Kleer, Claro K.C., or Kieselsol/Chitosan). Time could certainly (and likely) also fix the problem. I wouldn't use conditioner as a back sweetener. I believe it's simply glycerin with potassium sorbate added to it. IMHO it's better to use straight sugar to back sweeten. It's easier to do bench trials with, and cheaper. Stick to the prescribed dose of sorbate, added separately. Glycerin evidently adds mouth feel. I would only add it if you think it needs it, after tasting, and just use glycerin.
> 
> If this was my wine, and I had the time, I would wait it out and see what happens. I accidentally stirred up the lees in my last batch after it cleared nicely. I waited a week. Nothing happened. This is supposed to be a quick drinker, and my wife wanted her kitchen back, so I added Kieselsol/Chitosan and bottled 2 days later. If you're going to drink it yourself, it doesn't really matter too much.


Just went and had a peek and you're right, there is a fine ring of sediment back down at the bottom again-so I'll leave it be for a while. I didn't know that about the wine conditioner(never read the label, its just what I've always used)so thanks for mentioning. You're also 100 percent right that if I'm just going to drink it, as long as the taste is where i want it it doesn't matter if it stays a bit hazy. Starting another with Raspberries and Sour Cherries today, and I'll use the sugar when the time comes for sweetening. Here is a copy of that recipe for Rhubarb wine I found. I haven't tried it yet so can't speak to how good it is. I saved it to try because I have a large patch of Rhubarb that never gets used up and I hate waste and love wine lol. Might try this one next week when I have room for another carboy in my work area.


----------



## KCCam

SassyBoots said:


> Here is a copy of that recipe for Rhubarb wine I found.


I looked at that recipe, and it looks pretty good. One thing that makes me trust it more than some is that is doesn't call for acid blend, which a lot of them do, but I'm thinking is not likely needed for rhubarb. Here’s a few of my thoughts tho, take ‘em or leave ‘em.

15 lbs of rhubarb seems a little light. The few rhubarb recipes I’ve come across are more in the 18-24 lb range.
The starting SG seems a little high. 1.110 will give you about 16% ABV. So adjust to your taste.
10 tsp Tannin seems like a lot. 
Corn sugar (dextrose) is a lot more expensive than normal table sugar (sucrose), and probably unnecessary. (Comments from others welcome.)
Pectic enzyme is usually added with the fruit, right in the beginning, to help break it down and improve color and juice extraction. (Add the K-meta, wait 12 hours, add the pectic enzyme, wait 12 hours, then add everything else).
If you have a selection of smaller containers that you can air lock, or put in the fridge, it helps to add 10-30% to the initial volume to have something to top up with later. (Fill primary to 26 - 30 L mark.)
As mentioned before, instead of adding conditioner to back sweeten, use 1/2 tsp sorbate per gallon, and sweeten with sugar. Take an 80 ml (1/3 cup) sample. Every 1/4 tsp of sugar you add is equivalent to 1/4 cup per gallon. So if you like the sample with 3/4 tsp sugar, add 4.5 cups of sugar to the 6 gallons.
And take a gander at this recipe that my brother-in-law just came across. It’s from his mother’s old hand-written recipe book from “the old country.” She was Dutch.


> 5 gallon pot 3/4 full rhubarb. Fill full of warm water. Leave sit 5 days. Then strain it. Add 5 lbs of brown sugar and 5 lbs of white sugar. 3 oranges and 2 lemons cut in pieces and 1 piece ginger root. Leave it 5 days and it is ready to drink.


I think I might try that one! No pectic enzyme, no yeast nutrient, no yeast! And ready in 10 days. And no bottles, just ladle it out of the 5 gallon pot. Hahaha.


----------



## dangerdave

Have I mentioned lately that you are all awesome?!


----------



## SassyBoots

KCCam said:


> I looked at that recipe, and it looks pretty good. One thing that makes me trust it more than some is that is doesn't call for acid blend, which a lot of them do, but I'm thinking is not likely needed for rhubarb. Here’s a few of my thoughts tho, take ‘em or leave ‘em.
> 
> 15 lbs of rhubarb seems a little light. The few rhubarb recipes I’ve come across are more in the 18-24 lb range.
> The starting SG seems a little high. 1.110 will give you about 16% ABV. So adjust to your taste.
> 10 tsp Tannin seems like a lot.
> Corn sugar (dextrose) is a lot more expensive than normal table sugar (sucrose), and probably unnecessary. (Comments from others welcome.)
> Pectic enzyme is usually added with the fruit, right in the beginning, to help break it down and improve color and juice extraction. (Add the K-meta, wait 12 hours, add the pectic enzyme, wait 12 hours, then add everything else).
> If you have a selection of smaller containers that you can air lock, or put in the fridge, it helps to add 10-30% to the initial volume to have something to top up with later. (Fill primary to 26 - 30 L mark.)
> As mentioned before, instead of adding conditioner to back sweeten, use 1/2 tsp sorbate per gallon, and sweeten with sugar. Take an 80 ml (1/3 cup) sample. Every 1/4 tsp of sugar you add is equivalent to 1/4 cup per gallon. So if you like the sample with 3/4 tsp sugar, add 4.5 cups of sugar to the 6 gallons.
> And take a gander at this recipe that my brother-in-law just came across. It’s from his mother’s old hand-written recipe book from “the old country.” She was Dutch.
> 
> I think I might try that one! No pectic enzyme, no yeast nutrient, no yeast! And ready in 10 days. And no bottles, just ladle it out of the 5 gallon pot. Hahaha.


 I've seen similar recipes for good old country wines made much like that one!! I should dig through the book my uncle gave me and see what else I can find. I have another Uncle that makes wine out of chokecherry and it will literally take knock you on your butt but tastes amazing. I bet if I asked him all he uses are the simplest ingredients as well.

Thanks for the suggestions-all i set aside and froze was about 15lbs(we used the rest for other things) but I never thought of that. It will be up again soon enough and I can add to it. Or...just try it and see what it does, I guess-thats the fun part. That does seem like a lot of tannin, but another batch I tried to make(different recipe) called for quite a lot less and the wine seemed flat, even with added glycerin. And yuppers, I was just going to use plain sugar. I dunno....having too much fun making DB right now so that one might have to wait til the fall when I can freeze more Rhubarb. I just did up a combination of 8lb raspberries and 5lb sour cherry and it is going nuts in the carboy-and smells heavenly. Keeping the temp down a bit this time as previously suggested. The Blueberry DB did wind up clearing out pretty nicely just left alone, so I'm thinking rack it off one more time(I must have sucked up lees last weekend because there is a pretty good layer on the bottom again) but I've got the sweetness about where I want it-nice hit of sweetness without being cloying with a nice dryness after-and I know it will only get better. I'm glad I didn't mess with it the other day


----------



## Jovimaple

First batch of DDB for me started yesterday. Pitched yeast today. Doing a 3 gallon batch (24 oz lemon, 4 lb triple berry from Costco - rasp, blue, black- 11 cups of sugar got it to 1.072 yesterday pre-fruit and same this morning at a little higher temp). I didn't have yeast energizer but I do have lots of yeast so I decided to use the whole packet and actually followed the directions to start it instead of just pitching it dry onto the must like I usually do. I just checked it after 3 hours and can see the yeast working already!


----------



## SassyBoots

Jovimaple said:


> First batch of DDB for me started yesterday. Pitched yeast today. Doing a 3 gallon batch (24 oz lemon, 4 lb triple berry from Costco - rasp, blue, black- 11 cups of sugar got it to 1.072 yesterday pre-fruit and same this morning at a little higher temp). I didn't have yeast energizer but I do have lots of yeast so I decided to use the whole packet and actually followed the directions to start it instead of just pitching it dry onto the must like I usually do. I just checked it after 3 hours and can see the yeast working already!


I think you'll really enjoy this stuff. I know I sure do! I need to decide what combo I'm going to try next(might just pick up a couple of bags of the mixed berry from Costco and try that.) Peach might be fun, just to have a "white" alongside all the red. Cheers


----------



## batman72

Look what I found at Target!!!!!! I just had them delivered a few minutes ago.... I bet you guys know what's next....


----------



## MarcOlivetti

KCCam said:


> I know it's been a couple weeks. How's it going? Yah, gas dissolves in liquid much better at colder temps, so warming it up helps degas. Also, you don't make bombs with wine that isn't completely degassed. That just adds a little tingle to the tongue when you drink it. Bombs come from wine that is still *making *CO2 (ie, still fermenting) in the bottle.
> 
> Also, the headspace eliminator isn't meant for degassing, it's meant for bulk aging. If you are degassing with the AIO, rather than with time, you have to keep applying the vacuum. The first time you pull a vacuum on a batch, you do it very slowly, because you can make a huge mess with all the foam that *suddenly* appears. I use a vacuum gauge on mine, the HE is not a good indicator of vacuum. The first time, 22" of vacuum will return to 0 in just a few minutes as the CO2 is released. The next time it takes a little longer. Once the vacuum remains constant, or almost so, *then *there is very little CO2 left in the wine. Think of it this way: with 100 ml headspace, using a HE, you can only remove 100 ml of CO2 at a time. If you pull a vacuum and leave a HE on the carboy, it might still be collapsed at 3" vacuum (or 0, if it sticks), which won't be doing much to release any more. However, even though it's not a vacuum, it *IS *mostly CO2 - so no oxygen, thus protecting the wine from oxidation. Careful though, because wine left to degas naturally over time isn't actually fully degassed either. It's in equilibrium with the amount of CO2 in the air above it. Removing more CO2 than would naturally be released over time might leave the wine seeming a little flat, or so I've heard. I have a 2 L reservoir on my AIO setup, in addition to the standard 750 ml wine bottle, so when I pull a vacuum and turn the pump off, it takes almost 3 L of CO2 to equalize the pressure instead of only maybe 100 ml.



It’s going well. I left the HE on for only an hour or two, then switched back to a airlock. I added 1/4 tsp of k-meta when I racked last week and I’m planning on letting it sit through the end of April. Thanks for the insights.


----------



## SassyBoots

KCCam said:


> I looked at that recipe, and it looks pretty good. One thing that makes me trust it more than some is that is doesn't call for acid blend, which a lot of them do, but I'm thinking is not likely needed for rhubarb. Here’s a few of my thoughts tho, take ‘em or leave ‘em.
> 
> 15 lbs of rhubarb seems a little light. The few rhubarb recipes I’ve come across are more in the 18-24 lb range.
> The starting SG seems a little high. 1.110 will give you about 16% ABV. So adjust to your taste.
> 10 tsp Tannin seems like a lot.
> Corn sugar (dextrose) is a lot more expensive than normal table sugar (sucrose), and probably unnecessary. (Comments from others welcome.)
> Pectic enzyme is usually added with the fruit, right in the beginning, to help break it down and improve color and juice extraction. (Add the K-meta, wait 12 hours, add the pectic enzyme, wait 12 hours, then add everything else).
> If you have a selection of smaller containers that you can air lock, or put in the fridge, it helps to add 10-30% to the initial volume to have something to top up with later. (Fill primary to 26 - 30 L mark.)
> As mentioned before, instead of adding conditioner to back sweeten, use 1/2 tsp sorbate per gallon, and sweeten with sugar. Take an 80 ml (1/3 cup) sample. Every 1/4 tsp of sugar you add is equivalent to 1/4 cup per gallon. So if you like the sample with 3/4 tsp sugar, add 4.5 cups of sugar to the 6 gallons.
> And take a gander at this recipe that my brother-in-law just came across. It’s from his mother’s old hand-written recipe book from “the old country.” She was Dutch.
> 
> I think I might try that one! No pectic enzyme, no yeast nutrient, no yeast! And ready in 10 days. And no bottles, just ladle it out of the 5 gallon pot. Hahaha.


I can't seem to see anything on here (but maybe I'm just impatient lol) but has anyone tried to do a DB using frozen fruit like peaches? I'd like to add a white wine into the mix. I just did the first racking on the Raspberry/Sour Cherry DB and its clearing nicely and looking good so far. I also seem to remember someone talking about a Tropical DB using pineapples. Also, what is the highest limit anyone has experience with on increasing the amount of sugar into the primary to drive up the alcohol content? I added a few extra cups to the latest batch but I'm being cautious about adding too much. I'm making six gallon batches and going heavier on the fruit. Thanks in advance, and for helping out a Newbie


----------



## KCCam

SassyBoots said:


> but maybe I'm just impatient lol


Impatience is not a good quality for a wine-maker (I speak from experience). I *have* read this entire thread, but it was a while ago now. It took me several weeks, and was absolutely worth it! Read a few pages a day and you'll be done in no time. 

As for the rest of my comments, I have to qualify my input by saying I am likely one of the least experienced wine-makers on the forum, but I am scientifically-minded, and have read a lot.



SassyBoots said:


> has anyone tried to do a DB using frozen fruit like peaches?


I don't recall specifically, but I can say almost certainly, several people have. Freezing the fruit or berries is highly recommended because it breaks down the cellular walls and aids extraction. My understanding is that peach is not for beginners. It's low on color and flavor, low acidity, and hard to clear (which takes patience). Do you have a pH meter? It really helps once you dive into experimenting with your own recipes. The correct acidity is important to keep yeast happy and to preserve the wine, not to mention taste. I could be wrong, but I think I've seen advice to use 2 to 3 times the normal dose of Pectic Enzyme up front, more fruit than you would normally use, and a fining agent like Super Kleer (Kieselsol / Chitosan) will help with the clearing. If you can manage, you won't be sorry if you read this thread before trying to venture too far out on your own. At least do some research on peach wine in the Country Wine Making forum.



SassyBoots said:


> I just did the first racking on the Raspberry/Sour Cherry DB and its clearing nicely and looking good so far.


There's a saying on the forum, paraphrased: "If there isn't a picture, it didn't happen!" Don't be shy to post a pic. We all love to see that beautiful DB.


----------



## Jovimaple

Racked my first (3 gallon) DB last night. It is pretty!


----------



## KCCam

SassyBoots said:


> I also seem to remember someone talking about a Tropical DB using pineapples.


Yup, it's a big hit. I believe it started out with someone seeing the tropical fruit blend in the freezer at Costco. Many, many variations. Try searching here for "Tropical Daze". If you can't find the recipe, or someone else doesn't beat me to it, I'll take a look for you.

Oh, and don't forget to add the amount of DB you make to How many gallons of Lon D's Skeeter Pee have been made?, it evolved from Lon's SP recipe, and for the sake of that thread is considered Skeeter Pee as well.



SassyBoots said:


> Also, what is the highest limit anyone has experience with on increasing the amount of sugar into the primary to drive up the alcohol content?


This one is a little more involved. Again, not generally for beginners. And I tend to have less inclination to help someone if I get the feeling they're more concerned about the *"*_*buzz" *_than the_* "*_*balance."* I do not get that impression from you though, and I personally enjoy higher-proof drinks as well. But it's all about balance, and producing something you can be proud to serve your family and friends. When someone tells you your prized DB tastes like cough syrup, it's not generally considered a compliment (you mean some people DON'T like cough syrup?)

So, in a nut shell, too much sugar prevents yeast from multiplying, and too much alcohol kills it. Well, is toxic to it. I haven't discovered yet whether it actually kills it. I use 1.110 for my DB, and haven't had any trouble fermenting it dry with EC-1118, which gives about 16% ABV. Do some research on Port. It was originally developed as a method of preventing wine from re-fermenting during long voyages. You should be able to get to at least 18% with EC-1118, maybe even 20%. There are many ways to approach it, but one way is like how @hounddawg (bless you, Dawg) does one version of his Skeeter Pee, by step-feeding. Start at a normal SG, like 1.100. When it ferments down to about 1.020 or 1.010, add sugar and nutrient to get it back to maybe 1.040. As the ABV goes up, the yeast will have more and more trouble fermenting the sugar, until eventually it basically stalls at 1.040. At that point add some Everclear (or vodka, or brandy) to kick the ABV well above the yeast's limit, or add sorbate to ensure no re-fermentation is possible once bottled. Keep in mind that this stresses the yeast, and stressed yeast produce bad things, one of which can be H2S (Hydrogen Sulfide). Note that Dawg has a sweet tooth , so 1.040 might be a little too sweet for you. When I try this, I'm going to try to end at 1.010 or 1.020. It'll be a little more involved, but you can always add sugar if it needs it; you can't take it out. Once you find the sweetness you like, use that SG as your target next time. After you get the hang of it, and if you like the result, you could try going up to say 1.060 the first time, then chaptalizing to 1.040, then 1.020, to make it more efficient. The step-feeding makes it hard to determine what your final ABV is. If you care about that, check out FermCalc. It has a Chaptalization section that helps with that. Be careful about recipes that call for very high sugar up front, and to "kill" the yeast with K-meta when it reaches the sweetness you like. K-meta doesn't kill the yeast, but along with the high sugar and high alcohol *might *prevent re-fermentation in the bottle. It certainly doesn't guarantee it.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## KCCam

Jovimaple said:


> Racked my first (3 gallon) DB last night. It is pretty!
> View attachment 72207


Yes, that *is *pretty!


----------



## RickD

I just bought some Realemon (R) lemon juice in the green bottle, for Dragon's Blood (as per Dangerdan's recipe). I notice that it contains sodium benzoate. Did I buy the wrong stuff??


----------



## SassyBoots

KCCam said:


> Impatience is not a good quality for a wine-maker (I speak from experience). I *have* read this entire thread, but it was a while ago now. It took me several weeks, and was absolutely worth it! Read a few pages a day and you'll be done in no time.
> 
> As for the rest of my comments, I have to qualify my input by saying I am likely one of the least experienced wine-makers on the forum, but I am scientifically-minded, and have read a lot.
> 
> 
> I don't recall specifically, but I can say almost certainly, several people have. Freezing the fruit or berries is highly recommended because it breaks down the cellular walls and aids extraction. My understanding is that peach is not for beginners. It's low on color and flavor, low acidity, and hard to clear (which takes patience). Do you have a pH meter? It really helps once you dive into experimenting with your own recipes. The correct acidity is important to keep yeast happy and to preserve the wine, not to mention taste. I could be wrong, but I think I've seen advice to use 2 to 3 times the normal dose of Pectic Enzyme up front, more fruit than you would normally use, and a fining agent like Super Kleer (Kieselsol / Chitosan) will help with the clearing. If you can manage, you won't be sorry if you read this thread before trying to venture too far out on your own. At least do some research on peach wine in the Country Wine Making forum.
> 
> 
> There's a saying on the forum, paraphrased: "If there isn't a picture, it didn't happen!" Don't be shy to post a pic. We all love to see that beautiful DB.


----------



## SassyBoots

There's the Blueberry DB  I'll wait until the room is brighter for a shot of the Raspberry/Sour Cherry-the color on that one is already amazing!!


----------



## SassyBoots

KCCam said:


> Yup, it's a big hit. I believe it started out with someone seeing the tropical fruit blend in the freezer at Costco. Many, many variations. Try searching here for "Tropical Daze". If you can't find the recipe, or someone else doesn't beat me to it, I'll take a look for you.
> 
> Oh, and don't forget to add the amount of DB you make to How many gallons of Lon D's Skeeter Pee have been made?, it evolved from Lon's SP recipe, and for the sake of that thread is considered Skeeter Pee as well.
> 
> 
> This one is a little more involved. Again, not generally for beginners. And I tend to have less inclination to help someone if I get the feeling they're more concerned about the *"*_*buzz" *_than the_* "*_*balance."* I do not get that impression from you though, and I personally enjoy higher-proof drinks as well. But it's all about balance, and producing something you can be proud to serve your family and friends. When someone tells you your prized DB tastes like cough syrup, it's not generally considered a compliment (you mean some people DON'T like cough syrup?)
> 
> So, in a nut shell, too much sugar prevents yeast from multiplying, and too much alcohol kills it. Well, is toxic to it. I haven't discovered yet whether it actually kills it. I use 1.110 for my DB, and haven't had any trouble fermenting it dry with EC-1118, which gives about 16% ABV. Do some research on Port. It was originally developed as a method of preventing wine from re-fermenting during long voyages. You should be able to get to at least 18% with EC-1118, maybe even 20%. There are many ways to approach it, but one way is like how @hounddawg (bless you, Dawg) does one version of his Skeeter Pee, by step-feeding. Start at a normal SG, like 1.100. When it ferments down to about 1.020 or 1.010, add sugar and nutrient to get it back to maybe 1.040. As the ABV goes up, the yeast will have more and more trouble fermenting the sugar, until eventually it basically stalls at 1.040. At that point add some Everclear (or vodka, or brandy) to kick the ABV well above the yeast's limit, or add sorbate to ensure no re-fermentation is possible once bottled. Keep in mind that this stresses the yeast, and stressed yeast produce bad things, one of which can be H2S (Hydrogen Sulfide). Note that Dawg has a sweet tooth , so 1.040 might be a little too sweet for you. When I try this, I'm going to try to end at 1.010 or 1.020. It'll be a little more involved, but you can always add sugar if it needs it; you can't take it out. Once you find the sweetness you like, use that SG as your target next time. After you get the hang of it, and if you like the result, you could try going up to say 1.060 the first time, then chaptalizing to 1.040, then 1.020, to make it more efficient. The step-feeding makes it hard to determine what your final ABV is. If you care about that, check out FermCalc. It has a Chaptalization section that helps with that. Be careful about recipes that call for very high sugar up front, and to "kill" the yeast with K-meta when it reaches the sweetness you like. K-meta doesn't kill the yeast, but along with the high sugar and high alcohol *might *prevent re-fermentation in the bottle. It certainly doesn't guarantee it.
> 
> Good luck. Let us know how it goes.


Appreciate the feedback. No, the wine doesn't need to have a serious kick, I'm just curious about the process and what the "safe" parameters are before something gets ruined. Definitely something I'd work up to and see the results cautiously. Does that make sense? I would rather take baby steps and experiment slowly. I've mostly done kit wines, so this is a fun foray into learning from scratch. 

I'll dig for the Tropical Daze recipe, and yes, you're right-I should get off my can and just READ, lol. The peach sounds like it would be amazing to try, but probably better off waiting until I learn more and gain a bit more experience. 

I'll likely hit costco and get more berries and do another batch so I can start stockpiling for summer. I'd like to try heavier on the fruit, but less or no lemon juice for the next one....its a thing with me, my system doesn't like acid from citrus anything-I immediately start getting heartburn. I'll put up with it for a nice wine though  ! Just curious how the wine tastes forgoing the lemon juice. Thanks again for all the help and feedback, its so appreciated!


----------



## KCCam

SassyBoots said:


> my system doesn't like acid from citrus anything ... Just curious how the wine tastes forgoing the lemon juice.


"Dragonette" was initially an experiment, I believe, for that very reason. I'm not sure now though. Maybe check it out. The idea is to use acid blend, or a different acid than citric, instead of lemon juice.


----------



## Jovimaple

RickD said:


> I just bought some Realemon (R) lemon juice in the green bottle, for Dragon's Blood (as per Dangerdan's recipe). I notice that it contains sodium benzoate. Did I buy the wrong stuff??


I bought the generic kind and it also has sodium benzoate. It worked fine for me as far as fermenting.


----------



## KCCam

RickD said:


> I just bought some Realemon (R) lemon juice in the green bottle, for Dragon's Blood (as per Dangerdan's recipe). I notice that it contains sodium benzoate. Did I buy the wrong stuff??


Yup, it's fine. Uhh, and BTW, it's "DangerDave". Although I'm sure it wouldn't mind. LOL.


----------



## Robert R

I'm wanting to start my first batch, but the daily squeezing of the fruit bag is holding me back. If i squeeze the thawed fruit up front and just punch it down daily, how would that affect the outcome?


----------



## sour_grapes

Robert R said:


> I'm wanting to start my first batch, but the daily squeezing of the fruit bag is holding me back. If i squeeze the thawed fruit up front and just punch it down daily, how would that affect the outcome?



IMHO, that would be just fine, with no notable differences.


----------



## Fencepost

I was also a little concerned about taking out and putting back in...worried about contamination but I got over it by 1) wash then sanitize my hands (keep a squirt bottle handy of starsan), 2) hold the bag up til most of the juice just drains off 3) have a nice big bowl to put it into 4) and some days, just like you suggest, I just push it down, and stirr. The problem with not pulling the bag is that you can't get a good stir or whip on it to get the oxygen into the must when it needs it (early on in ferment). That's just how I do it... all batches have turned out just fine. I am sure many others are happy with their processes as well. (done about 10 batches of DDDB)


----------



## kevindevo

I started my first batch of wine, I chose DDDB with only haskap berries Feb.26 pitched in the yeast. My readings was Temp.75F; SG- 1.072; Brix-19; Today 7 days later reading are Temp.75F; SG-1.010; Brix-10. I was wondering if I am were I should be at this point I have nothing to check the PH going to get a PH tester next week. Any reply would be appreciated. Cheers


----------



## RickD

Robert R said:


> I'm wanting to start my first batch, but the daily squeezing of the fruit bag is holding me back. If i squeeze the thawed fruit up front and just punch it down daily, how would that affect the outcome?



I've only done one 1.2gal batch of DDDB, with modifications, but I had the same aversion. So, instead of using the bag on the front end as DD suggests, I covered my thawed berries (blackberries instead of triple berry blend) with hot sugar syrup and gave them a good mashing with a potato masher in a stainless steel stock pot, then transfer to my bucket fermenter. Then just stirring daily during fermentation. Upon completion (<1.000SG) I racked off as much wine as I could into a second bucket, transferred everything else to a mesh bag and squeezed away into the same second bucket. Degas with whip, added bentonite (as opposed to Sparkeloid), and racked to carboys. Turned out great. Picture taken about 4 hours after racking.


----------



## Raptor99

Fencepost said:


> I was also a little concerned about taking out and putting back in...worried about contamination but I got over it by 1) wash then sanitize my hands (keep a squirt bottle handy of starsan), 2) hold the bag up til most of the juice just drains off 3) have a nice big bowl to put it into 4) and some days, just like you suggest, I just push it down, and stirr. The problem with not pulling the bag is that you can't get a good stir or whip on it to get the oxygen into the must when it needs it (early on in ferment). That's just how I do it... all batches have turned out just fine. I am sure many others are happy with their processes as well. (done about 10 batches of DDDB)



I have had similar concerns about touching the bag. What I do is put on a pair of gloves and sanitize those. I think that is cleaner than trying trying to sanitize my hands. After several days, I squeeze the juice out of the bag into my primary fermentation bucket.


----------



## willie

I have used gloves and bare hands after rinsing in K meta solution and usually now just my bare hands. And I squeeze that bag good till the ferment is at it's end. Made 2 batches of Peach that we bought from a local orchard a few miles north of here and they turned out just wonderful. This was the second year we did this and it's a big hit with all who have drank it.

Will


----------



## Bladedancer

hounddawg said:


> that's why the one and only 18 gallon finish batch i made i quadrupled the fruits, mine done look like others and mine looks like a true red, hence the apostatize in my label DRAGON'S BLOOD.
> Dawg
> View attachment 65620


Hi have just started making wine again after a 39 year break, just wanted to ask a question about the recipiefor DB as it said to add 4 gallons of water. I would normally have boiled this but it doesn’t state that. Did you boil yours?
Thank you


----------



## Bossbaby

Robert R said:


> I'm wanting to start my first batch, but the daily squeezing of the fruit bag is holding me back. If i squeeze the thawed fruit up front and just punch it down daily, how would that affect the outcome?


Put your fruit in and let it ferment, push on it as it ferments, when it's all fermented just dont ring the guts out of it b4 racking into secondary and you will be on your way.


----------



## Mike101

Dragon blush


----------



## mikewatkins727

Bladedancer said:


> Hi have just started making wine again after a 39 year break, just wanted to ask a question about the recipiefor DB as it said to add 4 gallons of water. I would normally have boiled this but it doesn’t state that. Did you boil yours?
> Thank you


First, welcome back; second : no boil, keep away from bleach (chlorine) though.


----------



## SassyBoots

Robert R said:


> I'm wanting to start my first batch, but the daily squeezing of the fruit bag is holding me back. If i squeeze the thawed fruit up front and just punch it down daily, how would that affect the outcome?


From what I gather(another newbie here)the squeezing is like pressing the fruit to get all the good stuff out of the fruit you're using. It sounds a little daunting(and with me, gets messy lol!!) but I think its a necessary part of the process to get your wine where it should be. I'm sure one of the more experienced members will chime in here, but those are just my thoughts.


----------



## mikewatkins727

Squeezing the bag is part of the maceration process; extracting flavoring and coloring from the fruits. There are a number of techniques used in the process: freezing the fruit, mashing with a potato masher, squeezing the bag or pectic enzyme to name a few.


----------



## KCCam

Robert R said:


> I'm wanting to start my first batch, but the daily squeezing of the fruit bag is holding me back. If i squeeze the thawed fruit up front and just punch it down daily, how would that affect the outcome?


You've had lots of varying opinions; here's mine. @dangerdave originally developed his process, I believe, as a way to *minimize *the effort, and *maximize *the extraction of color and flavor. I think if you did a side-by-side comparison, with 1 lb of fruit per gallon, between using the "presser" method, and just punching it down, you would find a noticeable difference. I put the fruit in a knee-high nylon stocking (thanks for that tip, Dave), use nitrile gloves (easy to sanitize, and keeps my hands clean), and just wring the stocking out like a dish cloth, into the primary. No mess. It's pretty dry when I set it into a sanitized bowl. Out of curiosity, I weighed it every time, and every time it weighed substantially less and felt noticeably smaller. I'm not sure why @Bossbaby says don't wring the guts out of it, but I wring the guts out of mine. Funny story: the first batches I made using the cheapest dollar-store knee-highs I could find. At $0.25 each, they were awesome. For my last batch, dollar-stores were closed due to COVID, and I had to purchase expensive ones at the grocery store for more than ten times the price. After 2 or 3 presses, those expensive ones ran, and I had to double them up to prevent the berries from hemorrhaging into my must! I'm sticking with the cheap ones from now on.

Having said all that, another way of getting more color and flavor from the fruit into your wine is to simply add more fruit. I'm starting to use my own fruit. I live in the city. The amount of fruit I get from my (and my neighbor's) trees is very limited. I would rather have twice as much wine from the same amount of fruit, so I squeeze every last drop of goodness that I possibly can from it.


----------



## KCCam

kevindevo said:


> I started my first batch of wine, I chose DDDB with only haskap berries Feb.26 pitched in the yeast. My readings was Temp.75F; SG- 1.072; Brix-19; Today 7 days later reading are Temp.75F; SG-1.010; Brix-10. I was wondering if I am were I should be at this point I have nothing to check the PH going to get a PH tester next week. Any reply would be appreciated. Cheers


I'm looking forward to hearing how your haskap turns out. Everything about your ferment sounds good to me. The time for pH adjustment, if necessary, is before adding the yeast. If it has fermented well, with no off-odors, I would say it must have been fine. Now that CO2 is dissolved, pH readings are not very indicative. If you do take a reading, warm a sample up in the microwave and stir to drive off the CO2, I think you can even boil it. (Cool to room temp before taking a reading.) Otherwise, wait until it's cleared and degassed. pH at this point is mostly about shelf-life and aging. But this is DB. If it tastes good, it won't last long enough to worry about that!


----------



## KCCam

Bladedancer said:


> hounddawg said:
> that's why the one and only 18 gallon finish batch i made .... View attachment 65620
> 
> 
> 
> Hi have just started making wine again after a 39 year break, just wanted to ask a question about the recipiefor DB as it said to add 4 gallons of water. I would normally have boiled this but it doesn’t state that. Did you boil yours?
> Thank you
Click to expand...

I'm not @hounddawg, but he's taking a bit of a break, so I'll chime in. Sorry Dawg, if I get anything wrong. 

I don't see a connection between his post and boiling your water. Is there a specific reason you would normally boil it? Generally speaking, if you can drink it, you can make wine with it.

The post of Dawg's that you quoted is a reply to someone who was bad-mouthing our beloved DB, saying that the one batch he made tasted like Kool-Aid with vodka added. I don't know what he did wrong (maybe he didn't use the "presser" method, hahaha, see recent discussion above), but I've read this entire thread, and there are very few negative posts. Most people that try it rave about it. Dawg also prefers stronger-flavored and sweeter beverages than most, for medical reasons, so he's only ever made one batch (an 18 gallon one), and he quadrupled the fruit in the recipe. It turned out much darker than pictures he's seen, and thus he called it "Dragon's Blood" (note apostrophe). @dangerdave named his nectar "Dragon Blood" (no apostrophe). The two names are generally used interchangeably, but I remember reading that there actually was a reason for choosing to omit the apostrophe; I just can't recall exactly what it was. I know Dave still pops up here now and then, so maybe he'll refresh my memory, hint, hint.


----------



## Robert R

@KCCam Lots of good ideas, I'll start it soon. Just picked up a 20-gal. Brute food safe to ferment it in. Now to figure out just where in the house to do it...


----------



## kevindevo

KCCam said:


> I'm looking forward to hearing how your haskap turns out. Everything about your ferment sounds good to me. The time for pH adjustment, if necessary, is before adding the yeast. If it has fermented well, with no off-odors, I would say it must have been fine. Now that CO2 is dissolved, pH readings are not very indicative. If you do take a reading, warm a sample up in the microwave and stir to drive off the CO2, I think you can even boil it. (Cool to room temp before taking a reading.) Otherwise, wait until it's cleared and degassed. pH at this point is mostly about shelf-life and aging. But this is DB. If it tastes good, it won't last long enough to worry about that!


G thanks for info KCCam i didn"t know about PH before yeast. what do you aim for and is it the same for reds and whites?


----------



## batman72

I am confused, I read in this forum to not use concentrate that have preservatives in them, but this ReaLemon has preservatives in it, is this what everyone is using in this recipe? maybe it doesn't matter since it is only there for the acid profile?


----------



## BernardSmith

The amount of benzoate used in the lemon juice is good for the volume of juice (100 fl oz) but you are greatly diluting this to make 5 or 6 gallons (about 760 fl oz) . And then you are not adding all the lemon juice to the must. You might be adding say, 60 or 70 fl oz and once the wine has really taken off with the yeast going like gang busters then you add the last 1/3 of the juice and at that point the colony of yeast will be so large as to completely overwhelm the amount of preservative that is in the wine. 
The problem with the preservative is that normally it is found in fruit juices that you would be pitching your yeast into without adding another drop of water and in such circumstances the amount of preservative is precisely what is needed to prevent fermentation of THAT volume of liquid. Does that help remove your confusion? I hope so, batman72.


----------



## batman72

BernardSmith said:


> The amount of benzoate used in the lemon juice is good for the volume of juice (100 fl oz) but you are greatly diluting this to make 5 or 6 gallons (about 760 fl oz) . And then you are not adding all the lemon juice to the must. You might be adding say, 60 or 70 fl oz and once the wine has really taken off with the yeast going like gang busters then you add the last 1/3 of the juice and at that point the colony of yeast will be so large as to completely overwhelm the amount of preservative that is in the wine.
> The problem with the preservative is that normally it is found in fruit juices that you would be pitching your yeast into without adding another drop of water and in such circumstances the amount of preservative is precisely what is needed to prevent fermentation of THAT volume of liquid. Does that help remove your confusion? I hope so, batman72.


YES, Yes it does, thanks for clearing that up.. It make total sense ..


----------



## KCCam

kevindevo said:


> G thanks for info KCCam i didn"t know about PH before yeast. what do you aim for and is it the same for reds and whites?


I'll leave the numbers to someone else. I'm just getting into trying out my own concoctions, so only just received my first pH meter - a cheap one for now. So far I've just done kits and a bunch of "normal" DB variants. I've got rhubarb and plums coming from my sister's garden, and I believe they are on opposite sides of the spectrum, so figured it was a good time to have a better idea what I'm starting with. Different yeast have different pH requirements, but generally I believe starting somewhere between 3.2 and 3.6 is good. I am aware that those in the know often use lower for reds, higher for whites. Others might chime in here, because I am out of my comfort zone. Check the specs for the yeast you're using.


----------



## kevindevo

G thanks that's good at lease we got a starting point. I'm going to a local hydroponic store this afternoon to see what they have for PH tester. 
Keep the glass bottom UP!!!


----------



## artooks

Hi Everyone,

I want to try this recipe, but I am wondering if there has been any changes to the original recipe along the way can someone point out if so, thanks


----------



## Jovimaple

artooks said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I want to try this recipe, but I am wondering if there has been any changes to the original recipe along the way can someone point out if so, thanks


It's my understanding that Dave has updated the recipe on the first page with some changes as time went on.

That being said, people use it as a starting point so they make their own changes, such as doubling the fruit or putting in less lemon juice. I made my first batch pretty much according to the recipe, except I halved the recipe to make a 3 gallon. The mixed fruit I used was a 4 lb bag, and I also added extra water which meant extra sugar to get my starting sg to 1.075. When I racked it, I ended up with a full 3 gallon carboy plus 1 quart plus 1 pint.

Most people suggest making your first batch close to the original recipe as a baseline and then do whatever you want to make it your own version. I plan to start a 2nd batch with double the fruit as soon as I get the first batch bottled in a couple weeks (backsweetening later this week, if not tonight - hubby is eager to try this and keeps asking when we will sweeten it ).

Edited to add that if we like the first batch as-is, I may use the other 2 bags of fruit in the freezer to make a 6+ gallon batch and split it, which will allow me to experiment against a baseline, leaving some of it drier and maybe oaking it, etc.


----------



## pandakatelyn

I've wanted to make a pineapple or black cherry batch...would I be able to add juice to the recipe? I've found pineapple juice (easy to find) but also black cherry juice at my local grocer, and curious how to incorporate that in. Currently doing a lemonbalm/strawberry herbal wine, so trying to drum up ideas while that carboy is occupied.


----------



## KCCam

pandakatelyn said:


> I've wanted to make a pineapple or black cherry batch...would I be able to add juice to the recipe? I've found pineapple juice (easy to find) but also black cherry juice at my local grocer, and curious how to incorporate that in.


Of course you can. It's DB. Anything goes. I think a lot of people use juice to replace some or all of the water in primary. Some wait until back-sweetening and add something like that if the sweetening doesn't bring the fruit forward enough. Some make a flavor pack (F-pack) so the flavor is more concentrated, and dilutes the ABV less. Adding it up front means you don't have to worry about dilution, but adding at the end allows you to do bench trials, so you can experiment more with amounts and flavors to find what you like.


----------



## KCCam

artooks said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I want to try this recipe, but I am wondering if there has been any changes to the original recipe along the way can someone point out if so, thanks


This entire thread is about changes to the original recipe, and that's partly what makes it so awesome. If you are asking if @dangerdave has made changes, then the last thing I read (which was a while ago) was that he still likes the original the best... almost. Following are a couple of posts where he describes the few changes he's made for himself. In a nutshell: he adds 1/3 cup untoasted oak powder (I think in primary), 3 extra tsp tannin after fermentation, and prefers Kieselsol/Chitosan for clearing (as do most). I'm sure I also read that he increased the tannin in primary to 3 tsp as well, but I'm not sure on that. Do you use a total of 6 tsp per batch now @dangerdave?



dangerdave said:


> I have stream-lined my own process, and continue to tweak my methods for my own batches. Not all of these are reflected in the posted recipe. ...
> I now make all my batches in my Brute, three at a time (18 gallons). I use triple everything, except just one packet of yeast. I add one third cup of untoast oak powder per batch, and extra wine tannin after fermentation (3 tsp per batch). I use an extended brew belt wrapped around the Brute to keep it warm, and keep it up off the floor with a pallet. I handle my fruit while it's still frozen, placing six pounds of fruit per batch into cheap knee-high womens stockings. These are simply discarded when fermentation is complete and they've been squeezed down to nothing. I use kieselsol and chitosan for clearing. About half of each batch goes into gallon jugs for easy household consumption (and fewer bottles to wash!) while the rest gets bottled for gifting and swapping.
> Now all my secrets are out!





dangerdave said:


> A few notes on DB for those making their first batch. New wines are tart. They lose it with aging. DB is SUPPOSED to be tart, so we’re kind of cheating. We can drink it right away, and enjoy the balance of sweet/tart without guilt. Mine never get to age. Not to say I don’t have a couple of five year old bottles hidden somewhere.
> I have never tossed a batch. Nearly any problem can be solved. Never give up! Problem solving will be one of your most valuable wine making skills.
> Some folks like theirs with more acid (me). I use the prescribed 48oz per six gallons, and also add 3 tsp of wine tannin for my wife (anti-inflammatory properties) and a bit of oak powder—cause I love what it does to the DB. I back sweeten with 3/4 cup of sugar per gallon, and we drink some ever evening after dinner without fail.
> Keep thinking. Keep experimenting. Keep wining!
> I’ll check back with you all later.
> Dave




After reading this entire thread, I decided to make my first batch (6 gal) with 9 lbs berries, 6 lbs over-ripe bananas, 1.5 lbs raisins, and only 32 oz Real Lemon. Those are some of the most common suggestions from people who were unsatisfied with the original recipe. I figured better to hedge my bet, rather than take the chance I would miss out on something because I didn't like the first batch. I loved it. Next time, I'm going to try the original, as Dave makes it.


----------



## JustJoe

I just made my first batch of DDDB and I am astonished! It's not even bottled yet. When I racked it to prepare for bottling I tasted it and it tasted just like a light fruit juice. It fermented from SG 1.085 to 1.002 so it should be at least 11% ABV but there was absolutely no alcohol taste. Even at just 11% this could be deadly. Anybody else have a result like this?


----------



## KCCam

JustJoe said:


> Even at just 11% this could be deadly.


And when served chilled, it goes down even easier, making it even deadlier! This is evidently also a problem with Skeeter Pee, though I haven’t made any of that yet. You’ll be making it in 18 gallon batches before you know it.


----------



## mikewatkins727

pandakatelyn said:


> I've wanted to make a pineapple or black cherry batch...would I be able to add juice to the recipe? I've found pineapple juice (easy to find) but also black cherry juice at my local grocer, and curious how to incorporate that in. Currently doing a lemonbalm/strawberry herbal wine, so trying to drum up ideas while that carboy is occupied.


Don't be afraid to experiment. I've substituted all juice in recipes to see what happens. Currently doing an R. J. Knudsen 'Just Tart Cherry' juice that is ready for backsweetening prior to bottling. Getting the ingredients together for a frozen fruit cherry blend (from Walmart) DB.


----------



## batman72

My mix just started to ferment, I am using the 7.9 gallon fastferment on this batch, I had to wait until my Hobgoblin Ale was bottled to use this conical, anyhow I used 8 pounds of the triple berry blend in the stainless steel drop in screen and D47 yeast and 20 cups of sugar, I am sure the ABV is going to rise a bit after a few days with all that fruit in there, So I will take another gravity reading then, before the fruit was added we were at 1.075 I used the D47 yeast since from what I have read can handle a higher alcohol content that I might just get from this wine.


----------



## Jovimaple

Ended up splitting my 3 gallon batch into 3 to experiment with backsweetening. Here it is before splitting - so pretty!


----------



## pandakatelyn

Jovimaple said:


> Ended up splitting my 3 gallon batch into 3 to experiment with backsweetening. Here it is before splitting - so pretty! View attachment 72527


Love the dry-erase card on your carboy! super smart. gorgeous coloring.


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## Bossbaby

I just bottled a 6 gal batch of sour cherry/ skeeter variant, I added 7.5 oz glycerin and it made a wonder difference in mouth feel to what was good anyway


----------



## Jovimaple

@pandakatelyn A laminator was one of those random purchases I did for a one time use and I keep finding more uses for it! Most of my cooking recipes are now laminated, and making carboy tags is the latest project. Well, then I pulled it out the other day to laminate our insurance cards.


----------



## Khristyjeff

Jovimaple said:


> @pandakatelyn A laminator was one of those random purchases I did for a one time use and I keep finding more uses for it! Most of my cooking recipes are now laminated, and making carboy tags is the latest project. Well, then I pulled it out the other day to laminate our insurance cards.


We went a little laminator-crazy in our house as well. My wife even laminated our Social Security cards for safe keeping, then were told that made them invalid.


----------



## Jovimaple

Khristyjeff said:


> We went a little laminator-crazy in our house as well. My wife even laminated our Social Security cards for safe keeping, then were told that made them invalid.


Thanks for the hint. I probably would have done ours if I had thought of it while I had the thing out and heated up!


----------



## Bhushan Thatte

Hello friends and DB wine lovers. I recently made around 7 gallon batch of DB. But i don't know what is the ideal temperature at which this should be stored and also I would seek your views about the shelf life of the same.


----------



## Jovimaple

Bhushan Thatte said:


> Hello friends and DB wine lovers. I recently made around 7 gallon batch of DB. But i don't know what is the ideal temperature at which this should be stored and also I would seek your views about the shelf life of the same.


I bottled my first batch last night and my husband tried it today. He had to go into work but he said he is planning on drinking more of it tonight as soon as he gets home! I don't think shelf life is going to be a consideration with it at my house.


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## Jovimaple

I plan to keep it at 63-68 degrees F unless opened, then it's in the fridge.


----------



## Bobber16

JustJoe said:


> I just made my first batch of DDDB and I am astonished! It's not even bottled yet. When I racked it to prepare for bottling I tasted it and it tasted just like a light fruit juice. It fermented from SG 1.085 to 1.002 so it should be at least 11% ABV but there was absolutely no alcohol taste. Even at just 11% this could be deadly. Anybody else have a result like this?


we just made our first batch, a Strawberry/Peach/Mango/Pineapple blend and it is very good. I absolutely love this recipe, no alcohol taste at all. my next batch is going to be a Strawberry/Rhubarb blend.


----------



## pandakatelyn

I think I have a stuck fermentation. 
I started a dragonfruit triple berry blend on 3/27 with a starting sg of 1.100. I used a new yeast(premier redstar rouge) that took about 2 days to start foaming and show signs of it working. It dropped about .10 a day until 4/9, and now it's been at 1.040 since then. No more signs of foaming in the bucket. Is it truly done, or is it stuck?


----------



## Johnd

pandakatelyn said:


> I think I have a stuck fermentation.
> I started a dragonfruit triple berry blend on 3/27 with a starting sg of 1.100. I used a new yeast(premier redstar rouge) that took about 2 days to start foaming and show signs of it working. It dropped about .10 a day until 4/9, and now it's been at 1.040 since then. No more signs of foaming in the bucket. Is it truly done, or is it stuck?


Your yeast should handle SG of 1.100, so that's not an issue. pH can sometimes play a part here, and unless you have testing capability, we'll explore the other options, which are fermentation temperature and yeast nutrients. 

Your yeast will operate in the 65F - 85 F range, probably best in the mid 70's, what temps are you keeping the wine at during fermentation? 

Many times our musts are deficient of the required nutrients to support good yeast activity, and they require the addition of nutrients, did you use any sort of nutrients in the preparation of the must or during fermentation?


----------



## pandakatelyn

Johnd said:


> Your yeast should handle SG of 1.100, so that's not an issue. pH can sometimes play a part here, and unless you have testing capability, we'll explore the other options, which are fermentation temperature and yeast nutrients.
> 
> Your yeast will operate in the 65F - 85 F range, probably best in the mid 70's, what temps are you keeping the wine at during fermentation?
> 
> Many times our musts are deficient of the required nutrients to support good yeast activity, and they require the addition of nutrients, did you use any sort of nutrients in the preparation of the must or during fermentation?


It's been kept at 75f with a brew belt. I used the recipe for dragonsblood with yeast nutrients and energizer in the beginning. I unfortunately don't have pH testing equipment.


----------



## Rembee

In the past, I have had similar problems with premier redstar rouge yeast. Not to say that you are experiencing the same problems as I have had. Just from my own experience with this yeast, I stopped using it. I started using Lalvin 71B yeast with much better results. 
It's hard to say what your particular problem may be without knowing the ph. But you could try a different type of yeast starter such as the 71B and see if your fermentation starts back up. I would try a starter using a cup of your DB at 15 to 20 minute intervals until you have added 3 cups to the starter. Then add this back to your DB and see if fermentation resumes.


----------



## PJ805

Has anyone tried to carbonate their wine and if so how? This is probably a dumb thought (and not recommended), I'm toying with the idea of carbonating it with a sodastream?


----------



## toadie

I carbonated my skeeter pee with sugar added to the bottling bucket. Worked great. I just bottled a raspberry dragon blood with added dextrose in the bottling bucket. Seems close to being carbonated. I also added 1/2 c of erythritol for a hint of added (non-fermentable sweetness). I'll prob try it on the wknd. Cheers.


----------



## Johnd

pandakatelyn said:


> It's been kept at 75f with a brew belt. I used the recipe for dragonsblood with yeast nutrients and energizer in the beginning. I unfortunately don't have pH testing equipment.



Sounds like a good time to build a starter with a little "no additives" apple juice (a quart or two) and some Lalvin EC-1118, let it get going strong, then slowly step feed the DB into it, doubling the volume of must each day. IE, day 1 that you have good fermentation with two quarts, add two quarts of DB to it, then you'll have a gallon going. Day 2, add a gallon of the DB to the starter, then you'll have two gallons going, etc., etc..., by day 4, you should have the whole shooting match working again. You could just try pitching the EC-1118, but step feeding may work better in this case.


----------



## kevindevo

I finally had time to bottle my 1st Haskap Dragon blood tasty, red as blood ,clear . 2nd batch started put 12lbs. of haskap instead of 8lbs. I would like a bit more berry flavor. 10 - 750ml bottles for special occasion and try to age a couple and 2 - 5litres bags for the camp and topping up. If you count the bottles there's only 9 one is already gone.
bottoms up,
Kev.


----------



## Basilhaydens

Anybody ever made this with the frozen cherry berry blend bags you get thats beside the berry medley bags?


----------



## pandakatelyn

Basilhaydens said:


> Anybody ever made this with the frozen cherry berry blend bags you get thats beside the berry medley bags?


I have! It was a huge hit and I actually prefer the cherry blend. Its subtle but the flavor is there.


----------



## Basilhaydens

pandakatelyn said:


> I have! It was a huge hit and I actually prefer the cherry blend. Its subtle but the flavor is there.


Did you do it with the lemon juice? Was it still the same color as the original?


----------



## pandakatelyn

Basilhaydens said:


> Did you do it with the lemon juice? Was it still the same color as the original?


I did use lemon, and it was a bit deeper red than the original.


----------



## G259

PJ805 said:


> Has anyone tried to carbonate their wine and if so how? This is probably a dumb thought (and not recommended), I'm toying with the idea of carbonating it with a sodastream?



Interesting idea, I used to have a Sodastream, maybe I have it here somewhere . . .


----------



## BernardSmith

It is an interesting idea but don't forget Sodastream is designed to carbonate water and not sugar water so if you have back-sweetened the wine you may find that it does not behave quite like water. I would imagine that you may need to use the plastic bottles that they "provide" rather than a wine bottle.


----------



## G259

Absolutely, use the Sodastream bottles!


----------



## winemaker81

PJ805 said:


> Has anyone tried to carbonate their wine and if so how? This is probably a dumb thought (and not recommended), I'm toying with the idea of carbonating it with a sodastream?


A SodaStream should work, but the instructions of the one my parents had decades ago warned specifically against carbonating anything other than water, as the mechanism will get gummed up with sugar. You risk damaging the machine unless you can clean it really well, assuming you can clean it. [Haven't seen the current generation of SodaStream, so I don't know what it looks like.]

If carbonating a dry wine, do it like beer -- add 1/2 to 3/4 cup sugar just before bottling, and bottle in beer bottles. Leave in a warm place for at least 2 weeks. This cannot be done with a backsweetened wine as sorbate will prevent the renewed fermentation, and if sorbate isn't used, dangerous pressure could result if the sugar level is too high.

Last fall my son made a cherry cider kit, and he carbonated using drops (tablets) he purchased at our LHBS. We bottled in beer bottles and it worked quite well. You can use champagne bottles, although those require 2 drops to carbonate.

When I first started making beer, I bottled in quart Nehi bottles, but I have no idea if those are this in existence.


*EDIT:* My comment regarding the drops are wrong. The drops my son used, Brewers Best Carbonation Drops, are sugar (27% Glucose and 73% Sucrose) and will not work with sorbate and should not be used if there is residual sugar, to avoid dangerous pressure levels.


----------



## ramcowboy41

dangerdave said:


> *DangerDave’s Dragon Blood Wine*
> My name is David C. Land (dangerdave). I am a firefighter from southern Ohio who started making wine in August 2011. Like most of you, I began slowly, but was soon bitten by the wine bug and started making many kits in my spare time. After gaining this valuable experience and understanding of the wine making process, I ventured out on my own. My very first homemade recipe was Lon DePoppe's original Skeeter Pee. I was amazed that anyone could make a good cheap wine so quickly. After varying degrees of success, I went about modifying Lon's recipe into a process that reflected both my own desires for my wines, and the processes I had come to understand. Here, I will impart the recipe I developed that has become popular among a diverse group of wine makers. It is specifically designed to make good wine cheaply and quickly while waiting for your kits to age. There are no secrets in wine making. You, my fellow wine makers, are more than welcome to use or modify this recipes or process for your own wine making pleasure. Enjoy!
> 
> *The recipe is formatted for a six (6) gallon batch. To make a larger or smaller batch, simply do the math. Doubling the batch to twelve gallons would require twice the listed ingredients, while making a three gallon batch would only take half.*
> 
> _*READ THROUGH THESE STEPS COMPLETELY BEFORE BEGINNING, TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO FINISH YOUR WINE.
> 
> Always make sure anything that touches your wine is both cleaned and sanitized, and record everything you do!*_
> 
> 
> Do you do any step feeding of yeast nutrient


----------



## Jovimaple

I followed the recipe regarding nutrient and energizer for my DB.


----------



## AJH89

When you say 6lbs of fruit do you mean 6lbs per gallon?


----------



## Jovimaple

AJH89 said:


> When you say 6lbs of fruit do you mean 6lbs per gallon?


That's 6 lbs of fruit total. However, I (like others) found I wanted a stronger fruit flavor so I now use 12 lbs. of fruit for a 6 gallon batch of DB.


----------



## varano14

As my first batch of dragon blood quickly depletes I decided to start something a little different. Partially inspired by a July 4th pineapple and cherry desert I used 8lb of pineapple/peach/mango/strawberry and 2 lbs of sweet cherrys. Otherwise following the DB recipe. We will see how it goes.


----------



## varano14

varano14 said:


> As my first batch of dragon blood quickly depletes I decided to start something a little different. Partially inspired by a July 4th pineapple and cherry desert I used 8lb of pineapple/peach/mango/strawberry and 2 lbs of sweet cherrys. Otherwise following the DB recipe. We will see how it goes.



Racked to carboy last night and tasted it. Both my wife and I could really only taste peaches. As of now replicating the 4th of July dessert seems to have been a failure but it seems we will have a pleasant light peach wine. It will be interesting to see if anything changes over the next few weeks.


----------



## Gigglyanya

I made my first half batch of Dragons Blood using 4lbs of Berry Field Blend (strawberry/raspberry/blueberry/blackberry). I left the fruit floating free in the bucket using a large brew bag to line the bucket so that I could lift and squeeze and remove daily for the daily testing. 

It was blood red the first day. It fermented fast, about a week. When I removed the brew bag I noticed it was mostly blueberries that had survived while all other fruits had nearly dissolved into mush. Degassed in bucket. Racked into my 5 gallon carboy for first rack with airlock. 

Week later racked off fruit sediment and into 3 gallon carboy with 2 liter bottles holding what couldn't fit. Degassed again and added the sparkloid to the carboy. Tested the batch using the bottles. 

Holy crap this stuff is dangerous! It tastes like fruitopia fruit punch! No alcohol taste. I don't remember getting to bed lol. Now I'm just waiting for the batch to clear. Friends who I told about my experience testing it are eagerly waiting to try. This maybe my new go to recipe. 

My mom introduced me to wine making as a kid making Dandelion Wine that was stronger then moonshine! I know because my dad used to do the spoon test with it lol! I think she would have loved this recipe!


----------



## varano14

Gigglyanya said:


> Holy crap this stuff is dangerous! It tastes like fruitopia fruit punch! No alcohol taste. I don't remember getting to bed lol. Now I'm just waiting for the batch to clear. Friends who I told about my experience testing it are eagerly waiting to try. This maybe my new go to recipe.



Can confirm it is indeed dangerous. Dave really knocked it out of the park. I took a bottle of the original recipe DB and a bottle of homemade sav blanc to a large family gathering. To extended family members who own restaurants out in LA happened to be in town. Well the two of them drank the entire bottle of DB, before anyone else could get a sample. When I told them how it was made the looks on their faces were beyond priceless


----------



## Jerry Barbian

Does anyone know what type of tannin is used for this recipe, or do some people skip using it?


----------



## Jovimaple

I use the powdered wine tannin from my local home brew store.









Wine Tannin


Wine Tannin will improve the flavor of a dull wine. Tannin can be used with white wines that have not been exposed to oak to add astringency. Wine tannin can also add an earthy flavor to red wines. Use in conjunction with gelatin or isinglass for later fining as well.




www.midwestsupplies.com


----------



## Meadini

It was time to clean out the freezer again, so decided to try a dragons blood because I really need an early drinker, lol. 
I split the water between 2 buckets and put a lug of Sangiovese skins in the bottom one. To the top one I added 15 lbs of mixed berries, and 4 lbs bananas. I split the RealLemon as even as I could.
I had some Lallzyme-EX and Opti-Red leftover from grape season, so I used those per the directions, and I used Avante yeast since it’s all I had. 
My plan is to combine the 2 buckets after fermentation. I did this with a mead back in August that turned out really nice.
Ph on the grapes-3.5
Ph on the berries-3.3
Sg-1.083 and 1.087


----------



## G259

After reading the last post, I said "I might have just made a Chianti with the Sangiovese." I reread it, and noted that it was just the skins. Interesting idea, and I think you will have a winner. Where can you buy just skins? BTW, what is a 'lug'? I've seen it used before, and just thought 'volume'!


----------



## Meadini

G259 said:


> After reading the last post, I said "I might have just made a Chianti with the Sangiovese." I reread it, and noted that it was just the skins. Interesting idea, and I think you will have a winner. Where can you buy just skins? BTW, what is a 'lug'? I've seen it used before, and just thought 'volume'!


A lug is a box of grapes. Usually 36 lbs. This is a “second run” for these grapes. I fermented them already and added the wine to my Tuscan blend. Its a great way to stretch my investment in the grapes. I learned this from @winemaker81 posts. The grapes have a surprising amount of life left in them after fermentation!


----------



## winemaker81

G259 said:


> Where can you buy just skins?


Finer Wine Kits sells skin packs as an option for their kits -- they may sell separately but I haven't seen it advertised. Other vendors sell skin packs, but I don't know any details.



G259 said:


> BTW, what is a 'lug'?


Following is a picture of two 36 lb lugs, stacked. My purchases have been in 36 lb lugs, but there are other sizes -- I've seen 42 lb lugs advertised.


----------



## pandakatelyn

Alright yall, I got some elderberry. How do I add this?! Vinter's Best Wine Base


----------



## barryjo

varano14 said:


> Racked to carboy last night and tasted it. Both my wife and I could really only taste peaches. As of now replicating the 4th of July dessert seems to have been a failure but it seems we will have a pleasant light peach wine. It will be interesting to see if anything changes over the next few weeks.


I would give it more than a few weeks. Just might turn out to be a real keeper. Patience is a virtue!


----------



## varano14

barryjo said:


> I would give it more than a few weeks. Just might turn out to be a real keeper. Patience is a virtue!



Some drinkers enjoy it so a good number of bottles are now empty but the ones left have been stashed to see what they turn into in a few months.


----------



## mikewatkins727

pandakatelyn said:


> Alright yall, I got some elderberry. How do I add this?! Vinter's Best Wine Base


I believe it makes 6 gallons. If it's a one gallon jug, add it to 5 gallons of water then and the other amendments (sugar, k-meta etc.)


----------



## winemaker81

mikewatkins727 said:


> I believe it makes 6 gallons. If it's a one gallon jug, add it to 5 gallons of water then and the other amendments (sugar, k-meta etc.)


@pandakatelyn, double check the label -- I made one of these a few years ago and I _think _it reconstitutes to 5 US gallons. I added 1 liter red grape concentrate to stretch it to 6 gallons. My notes are in the link below. Note that I split the batch -- if I had it to do again, I'd have not split it, and made only the main (non-fortified) batch.






2018 Elderberry Batch #1 – Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site







wine.bkfazekas.com






Mike, seriously, I'm NOT following you around WMT!


----------



## QuiQuog

I have a batch of DB fermenting right now. I was planning on using the slurry and immediately starting a batch of Skeeter Pee. In reading the FAQ of the SP, I see that it says not to use a slurry of SP for another batch of SP. DangerDave says his recipe is based on the original SP recipe. The question now is, given that it's essentially a SP, is the slurry from the DB pushed to hard to use as a SP slurry?
My Plan was to do 4 wines in this order:

Dragons Blood
Skeeter Pee
RJS Red
Master Vintner Red

Would I be better off doing one of the red kits and using the slurry from one of those instead?


----------



## Jovimaple

I always use fresh yeast (usually a packet of EC-1118 rehydrated for 15 minutes in a cup of 100* F water) instead of slurry for DB and SP, but I wanted a pure lemon flavor for my SP. Plus, then I don't have to worry about timing different batches to make sure I have slurry at the right time, although I seem to recall reading that it can be refrigerated for a time? I put a question mark because I am not sure if I am remembering that correctly.


----------



## QuiQuog

Thanks for your reply. I have seen that one can use ec1118, but I’m going to go with the slurry method. One reason is that I want some additional color. I’ve seen some very beautiful blush colors from slurries. I also decided against using the DB slurry. I just don’t want to risk failure on my first try. So my next ferment will be the merlot, and I’ll use that slurry for the SP.


----------



## BigDaveK

My first batch of Dragon Blood Is bottled! Crazy good! I used 8 #'s fruit only because it came in 4 # bags.

I'm guessing many (most?) folks never made a second batch of the original recipe. Wonderful recipe, excellent starting point, endless variations. That's where I am!

Started my second batch. Berry blend, mango, chopped dried ginger. Third day in primary and I taste the ginger. That's what I wanted! I hope it carries through.


----------



## QuiQuog

What are these bubbles in my DB? I followed the directions to the letter. This is 3 days after back sweetening with 3/4 cups per gallon. I’m suspecting it’s just co2. Any thoughts?


----------



## barryjo

Sounds like you didn't use sorbate first. And now you have renewed ferment. No biggie. Put some sorbate in to inhibit ferment then Reinstall an airlock.


----------



## Jovimaple

Was your sorbate old?


----------



## BigDaveK

I read (here) the shelf life of sorbate is a year-ish.
Good example of why we wait to bottle after back sweetening.

Checked my sorbate. LD Carlson brand, no date of any kind on the package.


----------



## QuiQuog

barryjo said:


> Sounds like you didn't use sorbate first. And now you have renewed ferment.


I used sorbate, but...


Jovimaple said:


> Was your sorbate old?


I don't think so? I'm pretty sure I used the new and tossed the old. Something to check when I get home. If the new is unopened then we have an answer.


BigDaveK said:


> Good example of why we wait to bottle after back sweetening.


I was was wondering what the reason was.


----------



## winemaker81

QuiQuog said:


> I don't think so? I'm pretty sure I used the new and tossed the old. Something to check when I get home. If the new is unopened then we have an answer.


What was the SG after backsweetening, and what is it now? If they are the same, it's not fermentation.

A while back we discussed sorbate shelf life, and from various sources I found the shelf life most commonly reported as "6 to 12 months, if properly stored at reasonable temperature with no air and away from light". Another source said up to 2 years.

I purchase sorbate in small quantities, as I don't backsweeten much, and write the purchase date on the package. The packets that come with kits are also dated. Since I have no idea how long the packets sat in a warehouse or on a LHBS shelf, after 12 months or so, I toss 'em. The sorbate may be good, or not, but if I ensure I'm using fresh I won't have a mess to clean up. So far I've not had a problem.


----------



## QuiQuog

winemaker81 said:


> What was the SG after backsweetening, and what is it now? If they are the same, it's not fermentation.


That's a good question. I'll check that tonight also. If it's not fermentation, then what might it be?

Would it be beneficial to put this outside for a while? My garage temperature will be in the 40-50f range for the next week


----------



## QuiQuog

winemaker81 said:


> What was the SG after backsweetening, and what is it now? If they are the same, it's not fermentation


It just occurred to me that I didn't take a reading after I backsweetened, I just did it to taste. But it turns out that I used the old sorbate, the new one is unopened. The old one is about 7 years old. I guess that means that, in effect, I added no sorbate. How do I proceed from here?


----------



## winemaker81

QuiQuog said:


> That's a good question. I'll check that tonight also. If it's not fermentation, then what might it be?


Hopefully just excess CO2.



QuiQuog said:


> It just occurred to me that I didn't take a reading after I backsweetened, I just did it to taste. But it turns out that I used the old sorbate, the new one is unopened. The old one is about 7 years old. I guess that means that, in effect, I added no sorbate. How do I proceed from here?


On the plus side, you have learned to ALWAYS take a SG reading.  

I'd put the wine in the garage to stunt the ferment. After that, add fresh sorbate. It's possible to overdo the sorbate, and I have no idea what effect the old sorbate will have in addition to the new, e.g., is the old sorbate effectively nullified, or will the remaining ingredients add enough to the new to produce a problem (too much sorbate)?

You may need to add more sugar, depending on now much has been eaten.


----------



## QuiQuog

I put it in the garage on Thursday and added sorbate. Brought it inside and let it warm up Friday night. So far so good. No bubbles. I'll let it sit for a week or 2, depending on when I need that carboy again. I'll find out then if the extra sorbate affected the flavor. Then again, I don't know what too much sorbate tastes like. Thank you everyone for your help.


----------



## cmason1957

To much sorbate can lead to a bubble gum type of flavor, from what I understand. 

You didn't say, so did you also add KMeta along with the Potassium Sorbate, it really takes both to be effective.


----------



## QuiQuog

cmason1957 said:


> To much sorbate can lead to a bubble gum type of flavor, from what I understand.
> 
> You didn't say, so did you also add KMeta along with the Potassium Sorbate, it really takes both to be effective.


Well, there could be worse flavors than bubble gum I suppose. I did ad KMeta.


----------



## QuiQuog

Too sweet. I bottled my DB and now I feel it's too sweet. I had a 16 oz grolsch bottle that wouldn't fit into the carboy so I sweetened it separately and it was perfect. I really enjoyed it and think it's a great recipe, but what I bottled isn't what I know it can be. I'm thinking of making another batch and mixing to make it closer to what I want. The question I have before I do that is, what are the chances of oxidation from pouring the bottles back into a carboy and mixing the two batches?


----------



## winemaker81

QuiQuog said:


> The question I have before I do that is, what are the chances of oxidation from pouring the bottles back into a carboy and mixing the two batches?


Essentially zero. Treat it as a racking and add k-meta. Avoid splashing too much while unbottling.


----------



## Huba Huba

Noobie questions. If you ferment your DB to 9.5% - 10% alcohol then add, say 2 lbs/gal of fruit in the secondary, are you not diluting your ABV by nearly 20-25%? 
Even supposing the fruit sg is 1.040 and fermentation starts again (does it do this?) and goes to completion won't it still decrease the ABV some, is this significant?
should you plan an little higher ABV to start with to compensate if you plan on adding fruit to the secondary?


----------



## G259

Why? Why not ferment dry, then back-sweeten? Easy peasy.

Plan for 12-14%

DB 12%

If you add fruit, you're adding sugar, thus higher ABV


----------



## winemaker81

Huba Huba said:


> Noobie questions. If you ferment your DB to 9.5% - 10% alcohol then add, say 2 lbs/gal of fruit in the secondary, are you not diluting your ABV by nearly 20-25%?
> Even supposing the fruit sg is 1.040 and fermentation starts again (does it do this?) and goes to completion won't it still decrease the ABV some, is this significant?
> should you plan an little higher ABV to start with to compensate if you plan on adding fruit to the secondary?


That's a good question. I figure dilution into my plans, as it can be significant, e.g., backsweetening 6 US gallons of Apple with 3 quarts apple juice reduces a 12% ABV wine to 10.7%. Diluting that wine with 6 quarts drops the ABV to 9.6%.

Starting with a higher ABV does make sense.


----------



## sour_grapes

G259 said:


> Why? Why not ferment dry, then back-sweeten? Easy peasy.
> 
> Plan for 12-14%
> 
> DB 12%



I agree with the above.



> If you add fruit, you're adding sugar, thus higher ABV



But I disagree with this. If you add fruit, you are adding sugar AND water. As @Huba Huba said, the fruit is probably only 1.040 or so. Thus, the ABV will be lower than if you did not add fruit that subsequently fermented.


----------



## G259

OK, I think I see, but I was never good at juggling either so . . .

edit. OK, so you're adding volume at a lower SG, so a lower total ABV, I get it.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

Blueberries Cranberries and Peaches oh my!
I was sorting the contents in my freezer and found 4 pounds blueberries, 3 pounds of peaches and about 1 1/2 pounds of cranberries. I also found a 16 ounce bottle of key lime juice in the pantry. 
I'm thinking all this might be the makings for a batch of DB 
Any thoughts on this combination? Will using both cranberries and citrus juice make it too acidic?
Thanks in advance!
CheerfulHeart


----------



## G259

I don't know your experience, but as long as that key lime has no preservatives (sorbate). I don't know, I think it will give it a bit of 'pop', sounds interesting! FWIW, peaches will have a LOT of solids, so time . . .


----------



## CheerfulHeart

G259 said:


> I don't know your experience, but as long as that key lime has no preservatives (sorbate). I don't know, I think it will give it a bit of 'pop', sounds interesting! FWIW, peaches will have a LOT of solids, so time . . .


@G259 Thanks! No sorbate so it's good there. I appreciate the heads up about the peach solids too.


----------



## G259

. . . also volume loss, so think about your top-up addition now. I did an apricot wine (from dried apricots), and lost at least a quarter to a third.
You have assorted fruits, so you won't lose THAT much. Also, I didn't use any fining agents, apart from a bit of pectic enzyme, but feel free!


----------



## CheerfulHeart

G259 said:


> . . . also volume loss, so think about your top-up addition now. I did an apricot wine (from dried apricots), and lost at least a quarter to a third.
> You have assorted fruits, so you won't lose THAT much. Also, I didn't use any fining agents, apart from a bit of pectic enzyme, but feel free!


Depending how much top up is needed, I will probably use some very inexpensive Red Blend. I am also considering doing a 3 gallon batch of Classic DB before I start this one. That might solve the topping issue in case more than a liter or so is needed. A dose of Super Kleer will likely be used for fining. Super Kleer has turned out to be a great help in my winemaking adventures.


----------



## G259

One piece of advice, never top-up with a wine you wouldn't normally drink. (AKA don't top up with crap wine! lol!)


----------



## Huba Huba

dangerdave said:


> *Step 3: Each day, do the following, in this order:*
> 
> 
> Uncover primary
> Check and record temperature
> Check and record specific gravity
> Squeeze juices from fruit pack into fermenter and remove fruit pack (The Presser Method): _Temporarily place in sanitized bucket or bowl._
> Stir primary vigorously: _To introduce oxygen into must, suspend the yeast, and drive off CO2.._
> Replace fruit pack in primary
> Cover primary
> *Step 4: When the SG drops to <1.000, do the following:*


Is this correct? Do you continue to stir primary and introduce oxygen until SG drops to 1.000? Or do you stop at 1/3 sugar break then continue to step 4 when fermentation is complete? I want to try this and suspect the latter but directions are confusing.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

Blueberries Cranberries and Peaches update...
I decided to make this a 3 gallon experiment. It's the result of a clean out of my freezer and what I had in my supply cupboard. The total amounts of fruit are 3 pounds blueberries, 2 pounds cranberries and 2 pounds peaches plus a large box of raisins. I added 16 ounces of key lime juice and a packet of oak powder left from a kit. 
There's another 16 ounces of key lime juice in my pantry but I'm thinking that might be too much acidity combined with the cranberries and the first bottle of juice. 
The peaches might not add much flavor but it does keep the fruit volume up. 
Looking forward to how this turns out.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

Blueberries and Cranberries update 2 (peaches have dissolved)...
Gravity nearly .990, still lightly fizzy. I tasted a bit of it tonight and this batch has a nice solid blueberry flavor with cranberry finish. I'm hoping the lime will come through when everything is done and I sweeten it. So far so good


----------



## Jovimaple

Huba Huba said:


> Is this correct? Do you continue to stir primary and introduce oxygen until SG drops to 1.000? Or do you stop at 1/3 sugar break then continue to step 4 when fermentation is complete? I want to try this and suspect the latter but directions are confusing.


Yes, it works to keep stirring.

According to my notes, it took only 4 or 5 days to get to s.g. to 1.000 or under, and I wanted to extract everything from the berries.

For my first batch, I followed the recipe exactly, but now I use about 1.5 times the amount of fruit. For example, my first batch was 3 gallons and I used a 4 lb bag of Kirkland triple berry (strawberry, raspberry, blueberry) from Costco. My second batch was 6 gallons, and I used three 4 lb bags, so 12 lbs total. (I tweaked the recipe from 5 to 6 gallons, since I didn't have any 5 gallon carboys.)

This is a wine that is drinkable almost right away, but does get smoother over time.


----------



## FlamingoEmporium

CheerfulHeart said:


> Blueberries and Cranberries update 2 (peaches have dissolved)...
> Gravity nearly .990, still lightly fizzy. I tasted a bit of it tonight and this batch has a nice solid blueberry flavor with cranberry finish. I'm hoping the lime will come through when everything is done and I sweeten it. So far so good


My recent batch of dragon pee had at least 16 oz of lime juice. It was evident up until the time of bottling. Now it’s just a faint aftertaste 

I don’t think I backsweetened much if at all


----------



## CheerfulHeart

FlamingoEmporium said:


> My recent batch of dragon pee had at least 16 oz of lime juice. It was evident up until the time of bottling. Now it’s just a faint aftertaste
> 
> I don’t think I backsweetened much if at all


I am considering adding another 16 ounce of key lime juice in secondary. The key lime juice is very mild. I appreciate your insight about faint aftertaste.


----------



## FlamingoEmporium

CheerfulHeart said:


> I am considering adding another 16 ounce of key lime juice in secondary. The key lime juice is very mild. I appreciate your insight about faint aftertaste.


Yes I’ve read some posts in the thread that adding some lime after, alters its flavor perception.
Experiment !


----------



## CheerfulHeart

I racked the Red and Blue Berry (Cranberry and blueberry) DB Saturday. Stirred in the additives and added the Super Kleer. I plan to let it sit undisturbed for at least a week per the recipe. Even dry this one tastes good  I didn't add the second bottle of key lime juice after all.


----------



## Jovimaple

Don't forget to post how many gallons (DB is counted as a variant of Skeeter Pee): 

How many gallons of Lon D's Skeeter Pee have been made?


----------



## Retired teacher

5 gallons of SP and 5 gallons of DB. Tasting great!


----------



## Loadclear

Damn you Dave!

I just made my first batch, to a T followed the recipe. Yesterday, we were going to bottle, but we needed to sanitize more bottles than we thought we had ready. 

Instead, I racked a gallon into a Carlo Rossi empty, and started drinking… and drinking.. and drinking. I passed out at 7:30 pm! Haven’t done that in 25 years. So, thanks and damn you Dave for an awesome recipe and for making this guy look like a 25 year old


----------



## CheerfulHeart

I found a pound of candied fruit in my freezer. No preservatives, just candied with sugar syrup. It's a blend of citron, lemon, pineapple and cherries. 
I'm thinking this would be good with triple berry blend in a 3 gallon batch of DB. 
Will I need to add some lemon or key lime juice as well? Or is using this blend one of those ideas that is good in theory but not so good in reality?


----------



## mikewatkins727

@CheerfulHeart : This sounds very interesting. Depending on your liking for tartness, add the lemon, juice not the full 40 oz. I'm thinking this is good in theory and reality. Experiment.


----------



## Ericphotoart

I’m working on the 2nd batch of DB. The first is still in the secondary, only 1 gallon but when I tasted it I decided to make much more. I have a 14 gallon carboy that I want to fill to the top as a secondary od course but I only have 2 6 gallon buckets for the primary. I’m fermenting 12 gallons of must now and I will ferment another 5 after the fermentation is over. I will be adding the second batch to the carboy about 7-10 days later. I’ve never did such a trick. Do you think it would be ok?


----------



## CheerfulHeart

mikewatkins727 said:


> @CheerfulHeart : This sounds very interesting. Depending on your liking for tartness, add the lemon, juice not the full 40 oz. I'm thinking this is good in theory and reality. Experiment.


@mikewatkins727: Thank you! That's what I was thinking in regard to the lemon juice, maybe 8 or 12 ounces since it will be a 3 gallon batch. Just enough to enhance not overpower.


----------



## G259

Sounds good, go for it!


----------



## Bhushan Thatte

mikewatkins727 said:


> @CheerfulHeart : This sounds very interesting. Depending on your liking for tartness, add the lemon, juice not the full 40 oz. I'm thinking this is good in theory and reality. Experiment.


I have made at least 7 batches of DB and every time tried for variation in tartness. But my friends liked the most with very less tratness.
.
.
.
.

Anyways, I have observed that DB ahs made fruit wine makes enjoy making of DB and of course tasting with friends... I am quite fascinated by this wine. Hope every one who has made this wine will agree to me.


----------



## Ericphotoart

++++ I need help please ++++

I am making DB according to the Dave’s recipe with a little larger amount of blueberries. I want to fill my 14 gallon carboy but I only have 2, 6,5 gallon primary so I fermented 2 buckets dry and I’m ready to rack it to the carboy and I will start fermenting another bucket today so it will probably take another 10 days to complete. My question is: Should I add sorbate and kmeta for 14 gallons or add the amount for 10 gallons that I currently have and add additional dosage once the 3rd bucket is racked to the carboy. I hope I’m clear with this explanation.


----------



## QuiQuog

My solution would be to dose for the 10 gallons, then rack the next batch into the other bucket when complete and dose in that before adding to the 14 g container. 
I have a question also. What do you plan on doing about the headspace in the 14 gallon container while the other is fermenting?


----------



## Ericphotoart

As for the headspace. The 2 buckets that I have now are at 0.998 so it is still working. Once I rack to the 14 gallon carboy the headspace will be filled with CO2 so I think I'm safe for the next 10 days.


----------



## Ericphotoart

I'm just curious if anyone tried to use glycerin in the DB process. I used it for my strawberry and also for banana wine and I was quite happy with the results.


----------



## raelynn

We just bottled our first batch and it's amazing already! We used 4c sugar to back sweeten and it seems perfect.

Based on start and end SG, the abv is 12%, but the recipe says the abv will be increased a bit from the natural sugars from the fruit. Does anyone have a guess as to what the actual abv is? It seems pretty potent!


----------



## Jovimaple

@raelynn I don't have an answer for you about the final ABV; I just figure it's close enough using the sg numbers, especially since the added sugar to sweeten increases volume and therefore decreases the ABV a bit.

Don't forget to record how many gallons you made! Post in the thread 'How many gallons of Lon D's Skeeter Pee have been made?' (Since DB is a variation of SP, both get recorded there.)

Enjoy! I have found both DB and SP to be drinkable right away, but they really smooth out over time. I managed to hang onto a couple bottles of each for a year and they are wonderful! I am going to start a new batch of DB soon so it will have time to age for a while before next spring/summer.


----------



## Ericphotoart

raelynn said:


> We just bottled our first batch and it's amazing already! We used 4c sugar to back sweeten and it seems perfect.
> 
> Based on start and end SG, the abv is 12%, but the recipe says the abv will be increased a bit from the natural sugars from the fruit. Does anyone have a guess as to what the actual abv is? It seems pretty potent!


The best way and I think most accurate is to measure SG right before adding yeast so it's usually 24 hours after mixing fruits, sugar and water. That way fruits will release a lot of sugar and the measurement is more accurate.


----------



## raelynn

Ericphotoart said:


> The best way and I think most accurate is to measure SG right before adding yeast so it's usually 24 hours after mixing fruits, sugar and water. That way fruits will release a lot of sugar and the measurement is more accurate.


I do have readings from before and after, and all are 1.080. Temperatures varied from 26C to 21C, but even adjusted for the temperature, it looks like it's a pretty solid 12%. It finished at .992. If I wanted to boost the abv by a couple % for next time, what would be the best way?


----------



## BigDaveK

Sugar content changes year to year depending on so many variables. Doing what @Ericphotoart suggests gets you in the ballpark. My pear juice was 1.020 before adding sugar but solid fruits might hold on to a bit of their sugar.

Easiest way to boost ABV is to start at a bit higher SG. I usually do around 1.090 + or -. Another option to significantly boost is step feeding. Just have to be sure the yeast can handle the higher alcohol content


----------



## raelynn

BigDaveK said:


> Sugar content changes year to year depending on so many variables. Doing what @Ericphotoart suggests gets you in the ballpark. My pear juice was 1.020 before adding sugar but solid fruits might hold on to a bit of their sugar.
> 
> Easiest way to boost ABV is to start at a bit higher SG. I usually do around 1.090 + or -. Another option to significantly boost is step feeding. Just have to be sure the yeast can handle the higher alcohol content


Thank you, I really appreciate it! If I chose a yeast that can handle 15%, and step fed until fermentation stopped, can I assume that I have reached 15% and the yeast is dead? Or is there another way to measure the alcohol impact that step-feeding is having?

Part of why I really want to be sure is because our legal blood-alcohol level to drive here is 0.05 (which is basically 1/2 a drink per hour), so if we have friends over, they will need to know in order to calculate when they are safe to go home.


----------



## Jovimaple

Yeast tolerance is an approximation - so no, you can't necessarily use that as the ABV. Depending upon conditions, the yeast may stop early or go beyond the stated tolerance.

You can measure each step of the feeding and use those numbers added together for the approximate ABV calculation.

For example:
Original sg 1.090
Sg at first feeding (before adding sugar) 1.020
Sg after adding sugar 1.030
Final sg .990

Calculation:
((1.090 - 1.020) + (1.030 - .995)) x 131.25

Or .070 + .035 = .105 so the ABV equation would be .105 x 131.25, which is 13.78%.

If you do more "steps", measure the before and after sg each time and add them to the sg part of the equation.

Note: the number used to multiply to get the ABV varies depending upon the amount of alcohol. I just use 131.25 but for my purposes, I don't need an exact number. I also don't worry about the additional volume when I add sugar for backsweetening, or for the volume I lose to lees. The only way that I know of for a home winemaker to get the exact ABV would be to send a sample to a lab.


----------



## BigDaveK

@raelynn I think @Jovimaple pretty much covered the math. It's a simple process. Everyone should try it at least once.

The reasoning behind step feeding is that the yeast might not be able to handle all the sugar at once and will konk out too soon. So we string along the little sugar junkies as long as possible.

I'm currently working on a pear dessert wine, all juice, the ABV is a bit under 15% and I just did my third feeding. Still fermenting like gangbusters. Depending on how it goes I might try a fourth feeding. Alcohol is the first thing I taste and then great pear flavor. Like I said it's a dessert wine so eventually it will be heavily back sweetened.
Good luck!


----------



## barryjo

When you have both the starting SG and the ending SG, the rest is easy. Subtract them and then multiply by 131. But if you neglected to record the start SG or if you added things during fermentation, another method is required. I personally use the Honeymann method. Use your favorite browser to get the details. It is nearly as accurate as a lab test.


----------



## barryjo

Jovimaple said:


> Yeast tolerance is an approximation - so no, you can't necessarily use that as the ABV. Depending upon conditions, the yeast may stop early or go beyond the stated tolerance.
> 
> You can measure each step of the feeding and use those numbers added together for the approximate ABV calculation.
> 
> For example:
> Original sg 1.090
> Sg at first feeding (before adding sugar) 1.020
> Sg after adding sugar 1.030
> Final sg .990
> 
> Calculation:
> ((1.090 - 1.020) + (1.030 - .995)) x 131.25
> 
> Or .070 + .035 = .105 so the ABV equation would be .105 x 131.25, which is 13.78%.
> 
> If you do more "steps", measure the before and after sg each time and add them to the sg part of the equation.
> 
> Note: the number used to multiply to get the ABV varies depending upon the amount of alcohol. I just use 131.25 but for my purposes, I don't need an exact number. I also don't worry about the additional volume when I add sugar for backsweetening, or for the volume I lose to lees. The only way that I know of for a home winemaker to get the exact ABV would be to send a sample to a lab.


Just curious. What would you consider acceptable accuray for the home wine maker? Personally, plus or minus half a percent is fine.


----------



## artooks

Hi, how long do you wait before consuming it ?


----------



## Jovimaple

barryjo said:


> Just curious. What would you consider acceptable accuray for the home wine maker? Personally, plus or minus half a percent is fine.


I just do the calculation that I listed above, and I call it good. I have never had my wines tested, and I generally don't pay attention to added volume except when I make Skeeter Pee, because I add a gallon of lemon after fermentation is complete.


----------



## Jovimaple

artooks said:


> Hi, how long do you wait before consuming it ?


Dragonblood can be consumed right away, although I usually like to wait a couple weeks after bottling to make sure any bottle shock has corrected itself.


----------



## Ericphotoart

Last night my wife and I drank the last 2 bottles of Dragon Blood (triple berry) that I started July 4 of this year. I regret we consumed all previous bottles earlier. After 3 months it was just delicious!!! The berry flavor was just WOW, very smooth and backsweetened just right. I have another batch of DB (quad berry) but I will start a triple berry DB in a few days again, exactly the same recipe and I hope I will get the same results. My notes are very detailed.


----------



## willie

Yes we have drank the Dragon Blood right after bottling but we think it starts to get real good on the 3rd and 4th month. Just Back sweetened a Peach variation this morning at 42 days old. I figure by Christmas the wine should be very good. We got the peaches from an orchard from a near by town Utica, Oh. It's our 3rd year doing this. I wanted to do something different to the wine so I added a liter bottle of Sky Peach Vodka to enhance the flavor. 
Will


----------



## artooks

Hi, which clearing agents do you use ? if I decide not to use any clearing agents would chilling the wine and waiting for a longer duration help ? what do you recommend ?


----------



## QuiQuog

I've always used Super-Kleer. It only adds 10-13¢ per bottle. It makes more sense to me to just be done with it rather than waiting for it to clear naturally, especially given that it doesn't benefit much with age. I haven't tried to let it clear naturally, but I suppose it would, given enough time.


----------



## Jovimaple

I use Super-Kleer, as well, and for the same reason - this isn't a wine that benefits too much from bulk aging, so I would rather have it clear faster than it would naturally.


----------



## Shurt1073

Not asking for an exact time for making DB but an approximate time on a 6 gallon batch if everything goes "right". I'm leaving town for a couple months after Christmas and wonder if there is enough time to make this for the first time? Needs to be bottled by Dec 29th to take with me. Can it happen?


----------



## cmason1957

It can happen. I think the quickest I have heard of someone bottling DB is about 4 or maybe 6 weeks.


----------



## Jovimaple

There's an old thread where they discuss bottling at 15 days, if you use clearing agents.

If you start now, you should have plenty of time for it to clear and be ready for bottling before you leave.


----------



## Jovimaple

Found the thread: Dragon Blood in 15 days!!!


----------



## vinny

I made mine (1 gallon) Jan 27 with an SG of 1.070, moved to secondary on the 29th at 1.010, february 9 at 0.994 I degassed, added k-meta, sorbate, and sparkoloid. Feb 28 racked and back sweetened. It was a long clear because I don't think I degassed enough. I let it sit until the 7th of March to ensure no new activity, but easily ready to bottle after 1 month, no sediment or floaties in the bottle. Tasted significantly better after a couple weeks in bottle.



Shurt1073 said:


> Not asking for an exact time for making DB but an approximate time on a 6 gallon batch if everything goes "right"



Not six gallons, but details never hurt. If you want to take some with you, do it. You have plenty of time. I used EC-1118.


----------



## artooks

Has anyone tried to carbonate DB ?


----------



## artooks

How dos the DB tastes dry ? İs it any good or should it really be backsweetened ? I am aware that it is a personal taste at the end but still wondering if keeping it dry would alsi be as good as the original recipe ?


----------



## willie

artooks said:


> How dos the DB tastes dry ? İs it any good or should it really be backsweetened ? I am aware that it is a personal taste at the end but still wondering if keeping it dry would alsi be as good as the original recipe ?


We never was able go acquire a a taste for dry wine of any kind. But somewhere in this Thread there are a few folks that said they liked the D.B. dry. I would suggest trying it dry after it clears to see if you like it. Danger Dave's recipe I believe calls for 4.5 c. of sugar and comes out to taste med. sweet to me. Not too sweet and not too dry to my wife and I. A number of people who has tasted my wine thinks its just right and I did have 2 people I gave a bottle to say it was too dry. I always suggest folks new to this Thread start from the beginning page 1 and read the whole thing thru because you will learn so much. 

Will


----------



## Shurt1073

willie said:


> Danger Dave's recipe I believe calls for 4.5 c. of sugar and comes out to taste med. sweet to me. Not too sweet and not too dry to my wife and I. A number of people who has tasted my wine thinks its just right and I did have 2 people I gave a bottle to say it was too dry.



I needed to order tannin, yeast energizer, & pectic enzyme which arrives at the end of this week. Going to Sam's for my 3 berry bags and sugar tomorrow, so I'm going to make this next weekend. Its exciting because this is my first wine *without a kit* plus its a blush and we have no blushes in our wine racks. I love the idea of back sweetening to taste. I've spent hours reading the DB posts and I'm ready! (maybe)


----------



## vinny

artooks said:


> How dos the DB tastes dry ? İs it any good or should it really be backsweetened ? I am aware that it is a personal taste at the end but still wondering if keeping it dry would alsi be as good as the original recipe ?


I like dry wine. I HATE sweet wines, not dislike, despise. I was surprised how much sugar a wine can take without becoming sweet. I liked DB, the lemon makes it tart and bright and the sugar brings out the berries. 

The nice thing about wine is it isn't done until you decide. You can split it in 2 batches and sweeten half, leave half dry. You can back sweeten after you have bottled before serving if you like the back sweetened version more. It will be better after a month or so, you can leave it in secondary, taste, then decide whether to back sweeten.

I will say though that I was on the lower side of the sweetening. I think it was half a cup per gallon. The sugar didn't sweeten it so much as balance it.


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> I needed to order tannin, yeast energizer, & pectic enzyme which arrives at the end of this week. Going to Sam's for my 3 berry bags and sugar tomorrow, so I'm going to make this next weekend. Its exciting because this is my first wine *without a kit* plus its a blush and we have no blushes in our wine racks. I love the idea of back sweetening to taste. I've spent hours reading the DB posts and I'm ready! (maybe)


I read and prepared and I still messed up. The wine was fine, but step 4 should be squeeze and remove fruit back and step 5 should be when SG stabilizes at 1.000 

Uncover primary
Rack (siphon or drain) the wine into a cleaned and sanitized six gallon carboy, leaving the gross lees (the stuff in the bottom of the primary) undisturbed.
Add 1/4 tsp. Potassium Metabisulfite (dissolved in half cup cool water) and stir
Add 3 tsp. Potassium Sorbate (dissolved in half cup cool water) and stir
Degas wine very thoroughly: _I cannot emphasize this enough! Gas in the wine will prevent it from clearing quickly._
Add Sparkolloid* (or other clearing agent) per package directions (stir for 2 minutes): *_1 tbs in one cup of water simmered (boiled) for about 5-10 minutes. Add hot mixture directly to carboy and stir._
If the carboy is not full, add enough cool water to bring the level within two inches of the top opening: _Adding a like wine rather than water is preferred. A cheap white zinfandel will work well._
Add a bung and airlock (filled half way with sulfite solution)
Allow to clear undisturbed for no less than 1 week.
I pulled the fruit pack and glanced over the instructions and carried right on along with the list above BEFORE I hit 1.000. This is why I had a long clearing time. Just something to consider. Wine is very forgiving, but it is also easy to get excited and get ahead of ourselves.


----------



## vinny

artooks said:


> Has anyone tried to carbonate DB ?


Tried successfully. I just used a soda stream which is easy to make a mess with because it can foam excessively. I believe some use corny kegs 

I did it for my neighbour and she loved DB carbonated. They went and bought a soda stream just for sparkling their wines the next day.


----------



## Shurt1073

vinny said:


> I read and prepared and I still messed up. The wine was fine, but step 4 should be squeeze and remove fruit back and step 5 should be when SG stabilizes at 1.000


I'm just wanting to make a very tolerable berry wine that is semi sweet or sweet. Somewhere around 11% abv .... start my SG at 1.080


----------



## QuiQuog

artooks said:


> How dos the DB tastes dry ? İs it any good or should it really be backsweetened ? I am aware that it is a personal taste at the end but still wondering if keeping it dry would alsi be as good as the original recipe ?


I felt that the berry flavor wasn’t there until I backsweetened. On my first attempt I did it with 6 cups of sugar. It was cloyingly sweet, especially after a couple of weeks, so I made another batch and mixed the sweetened one with the unsweetened one. That one was about right, which is 1/2 cup per gallon. I’m making another now and I may use invert sugar so I don’t have to worry about it getting sweeter over time.


----------



## QuiQuog

Shurt1073 said:


> I needed to order tannin, yeast energizer, & pectic enzyme which arrives at the end of this week. Going to Sam's for my 3 berry bags and sugar tomorrow, so I'm going to make this next weekend. Its exciting because this is my first wine *without a kit* plus its a blush and we have no blushes in our wine racks. I love the idea of back sweetening to taste. I've spent hours reading the DB posts and I'm ready! (maybe)


I’m not sure I would call it a blush, I it’s more vibrant red.


----------



## Jovimaple

I double the fruit so mine ends up a dark purplish red.


----------



## winemaker81

QuiQuog said:


> I felt that the berry flavor wasn’t there until I backsweetened. On my first attempt I did it with 6 cups of sugar. It was cloyingly sweet, especially after a couple of weeks, so I made another batch and mixed the sweetened one with the unsweetened one. That one was about right, which is 1/2 cup per gallon. I’m making another now and I may use invert sugar so I don’t have to worry about it getting sweeter over time.


The need to backsweeten is typical of fruit wines, so I'm not surprised at your situation.


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> I'm just wanting to make a very tolerable berry wine that is semi sweet or sweet. Somewhere around 11% abv .... start my SG at 1.080
> 
> 
> Jovimaple said:
> 
> 
> 
> I double the fruit so mine ends up a dark purplish red.
Click to expand...

This is why I think this is great recipe to play with. It's fast so you can get to sampling. You can change up the type of fruit, the ratio, the sweetness, all to your preferences. I used the recipe to make a carrot wine. Haven't tried it yet, but I labelled it carrot blood to distinguish it from the other methods I tried.


----------



## Shurt1073

vinny said:


> This is why I think this is great recipe to play with. It's fast so you can get to sampling. You can change up the type of fruit, the ratio, the sweetness, all to your preferences. I used the recipe to make a carrot wine. Haven't tried it yet, but I labelled it carrot blood to distinguish it from the other methods I tried.



I'll stick to the original recipe because of my lack experience with anything other than a kit. I'm tired of drinking the same kit wines (black cherry, raspberry & blackberry) and this will give me options. Of course, without the past posts and advice I'm getting here on WMT I would not probably try this. 

My only other question or concern about the recipe is it appear people are just pouring in the sugar to stir and not warming or heating it up in water to help dissolve the sugar. I'd prefer to heat up the water .... is that ok?


----------



## Jovimaple

Shurt1073 said:


> I'd prefer to heat up the water .... is that ok?


Yes, you can make a simple syrup (usually 2 parts sugar to 1 part water, heated almost to boiling and stirring constantly until clear) both to add sugar to the must pre-fermentation and when you backsweeten.

I tried just stirring it in and I liked the result so I started doing it that way to save myself some steps.


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> I'll stick to the original recipe because of my lack experience with anything other than a kit. I'm tired of drinking the same kit wines (black cherry, raspberry & blackberry) and this will give me options. Of course, without the past posts and advice I'm getting here on WMT I would not probably try this.
> 
> My only other question or concern about the recipe is it appear people are just pouring in the sugar to stir and not warming or heating it up in water to help dissolve the sugar. I'd prefer to heat up the water .... is that ok?


Absolutely, start with the recipe, but as you say, you are tired with the same old kits. You always have room to play when you get more comfortable. 

You can certainly heat up the water to incorporate the sugar. I have, but it is not required. I have very cold well water to bring the temps down to where you want for pitching. You might have to let the sugar water cool a bit, use Ice cubes, or just wait till the must cools before pitching.


----------



## QuiQuog

Funny the question of dissolving the sugar comes up now. I decided to make a simple syrup for my apple wine today. I now have a 7 lb brick of sugar in my pot!
Time to go back to the store.


----------



## Jovimaple

QuiQuog said:


> Funny the question of dissolving the sugar comes up now. I decided to make a simple syrup for my apple wine today. I now have a 7 lb brick of sugar in my pot!
> Time to go back to the store.


Did you mix up the recipes for simple syrup and rock candy?


----------



## winemaker81

Shurt1073 said:


> My only other question or concern about the recipe is it appear people are just pouring in the sugar to stir and not warming or heating it up in water to help dissolve the sugar. I'd prefer to heat up the water .... is that ok?


Heating the water is not a problem -- it's heating fruit that may cause issues. Heat can activate pectin in fruits containing pectin (wine will be cloudy until treated with pectic enzyme), or you can get a "cooked" flavor in the wine.

When I make a second run wine*, I use hot tap water and have no problem dissolving 2 lbs sugar in 1 gallon water.

* a second run wine is a wine made from the pomace of a wine. For every 2 gallons of wine extracted from the first run wine, add 1 gallon water, 2 lbs sugar, 1/4 tsp powdered tannin, 1 tsp acid (blend or tartaric), and let it ferment. This produces a lighter bodied wine that ages quicker. Typically this cheaply extends the amount of wine produced by 50% -- if you're making DB, you're ok with a lighter bodied wine.


----------



## QuiQuog

Jovimaple said:


> Did you mix up the recipes for simple syrup and rock candy?


All good now. I must have not added enough water. I added more and let it sit on the heat for a while. It’s clear liquid now.


----------



## BigDaveK

@Shurt1073 congrats for expanding away from kits. You'll do fine, but good luck anyway.

One benefit of back sweetening is you can have multiple sweetness levels from the same batch. I suggest you have your other half there when sweetening. My "sweet" is sometimes another's "Oh God yuck that's dry." And I'm smart enough to know that saying "Well, why don't you make your own wine?" is never ever under any circumstance a good thing to say.


----------



## willie

Shurt1073 said:


> I needed to order tannin, yeast energizer, & pectic enzyme which arrives at the end of this week. Going to Sam's for my 3 berry bags and sugar tomorrow, so I'm going to make this next weekend. Its exciting because this is my first wine *without a kit* plus its a blush and we have no blushes in our wine racks. I love the idea of back sweetening to taste. I've spent hours reading the DB posts and I'm ready! (maybe)


----------



## artooks

Hi,

What type of bag do you use to keep tbe fruit inside ? İs there a specific type of fabric that could play nicely with the increasing alcohol ? Can you please share some links ? Also do you squeeze the bag everyday with your hands ?


----------



## BigDaveK

artooks said:


> Hi,
> 
> What type of bag do you use to keep tbe fruit inside ? İs there a specific type of fabric that could play nicely with the increasing alcohol ? Can you please share some links ? Also do you squeeze the bag everyday with your hands ?


There are so many out there. Here's one:



https://www.amazon.com/Bellamei-Reusable-Drawstring-Straining-pack-22/dp/B07YD4ZMMR/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=brew%2Bbag&qid=1666609984&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjAxIiwicXNhIjoiMy43NiIsInFzcCI6IjMuNjYifQ%3D%3D&sr=8-2-spons&th=1



If you use them, yes, it's a good idea to work them with your hand daily.

I use them off and on in primary but I _always_ use them as a strainer when I transfer to secondary.


----------



## Ericphotoart

I use similar bags.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XL9JH52/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I use surgical no powder gloves, every time I squeeze the bag. New gloves every time.


----------



## Shurt1073

I found a nylon bag at Sherwin Williams paint store after Walmart, Lowes, and Home Depot had nothing. Bags from Amazon are in my future. Sam's had my lemon juice and Triple Berry Blend so I'm closer than I was to making this. Chemicals should arrive on Wed / Thur and then its game on! 

I've been cleaning bottles like "my hairs on fire" because I have two low 7% ABV wine cooler kits working plus the DB which should all be ready to bottle in December. Guessing 84-90 bottles. I'm so pumped about this Dragons Blood wine.


----------



## dangerdave

After using commercial reusable nylon bags for years, I eventually went with disposable nylon lady’s stockings. They are super cheap, and when I’m done, I just toss the bag with the dregs (or whatever that stuff is called).
Thanks for trying the recipe. I know your peeps will enjoy it!


----------



## Jovimaple

@dangerdave himself makes an appearance!  Look at what you have wrought! Thank you - your recipe has obviously given more than a decade of delicious joy!


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> I found a nylon bag at Sherwin Williams paint store after Walmart, Lowes, and Home Depot had nothing. Bags from Amazon are in my future. Sam's had my lemon juice and Triple Berry Blend so I'm closer than I was to making this. Chemicals should arrive on Wed / Thur and then its game on!
> 
> I've been cleaning bottles like "my hairs on fire" because I have two low 7% ABV wine cooler kits working plus the DB which should all be ready to bottle in December. Guessing 84-90 bottles. I'm so pumped about this Dragons Blood wine.


You like fruit wine, so I think you will be happy with it. The fruit is very forward in it. Lots have described it like an alcoholic fruit punch. 

I'm glad you're excited, but be aware. If you are anything like me or @BigDaveK, you will find you have made 60+ gallons over a 8-9 month span.. Now, do I regret it? No! But I have dreams about making wine....


----------



## winemaker81

@vinny, wait until you're making 60+ gallons in 2 weeks ...


----------



## vinny

winemaker81 said:


> @vinny, wait until you're making 60+ gallons in 2 weeks ...


A man can dream!


----------



## winemaker81

vinny said:


> A man can dream!


Careful what you ask for ... you may get it!


----------



## vinny

vinny said:


> A man can dream!


Actually I have 30+ gallons I'm gonna be putting in primary in the next couple of weeks. It's not that much of a stretch.


----------



## raelynn

I'm making my 2nd batch, using 4.7kg of cherries, and the SG dropped super fast in the last 24 hrs. Does this seem right? Temp has been around 26C. I had hoped to step feed to bump the alcohol up, but if the 1.094 is accurate and it stops at 0.992 like my first batch, then it'd end up around 13.9-14% as it is. 

Day 1 - 1.080
Day 2 - 1.086 (added yeast)
Day 3 - 1.094
Day 4 - 1.040


----------



## BigDaveK

vinny said:


> I'm glad you're excited, but be aware. If you are anything like me or @BigDaveK, you will find you have made 60+ gallons over a 8-9 month span.. Now, do I regret it? No! But I have dreams about making wine....


My morning routine - make coffee, feed indoor and outdoor cats, watch bubbles in airlocks for a couple minutes.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who dreams about making wine!


----------



## BigDaveK

vinny said:


> Actually I have 30+ gallons I'm gonna be putting in primary in the next couple of weeks. It's not that much of a stretch.


I'm right there with you. Cleaning out the freezers, thawing pears for three gallon batch number 4, will have enough for batches 5 and 6. Did I really freeze 240 lbs of pears?!

The downside? 6 carboys out of commission for at least 6 months. I'm sure you feel my pain.


----------



## Shurt1073

My Dragons Blood starts probably on Thursday/Friday and its all I've been able to think about. Crazy huh? Chemicals I ordered arrived at the USPS sorting station and it appears USPS has no idea how important this is to my pending DB wine schedule! Hurry up, SORT and DELIVER. 

BTW ... ordered two more carboys because of this "let it sit" to wine making I'm learning about. I need to have more going to keep busy.


----------



## Jovimaple

> The downside? 6 carboys out of commission for at least 6 months. I'm sure you feel my pain.





> BTW ... ordered two more carboys because of this "let it sit" to wine making I'm learning about. I need to have more going to keep busy.



And now you know why it seems carboys breed like rabbits !


----------



## Jovimaple

raelynn said:


> I'm making my 2nd batch, using 4.7kg of cherries, and the SG dropped super fast in the last 24 hrs. Does this seem right? Temp has been around 26C. I had hoped to step feed to bump the alcohol up, but if the 1.094 is accurate and it stops at 0.992 like my first batch, then it'd end up around 13.9-14% as it is.
> 
> Day 1 - 1.080
> Day 2 - 1.086 (added yeast)
> Day 3 - 1.094
> Day 4 - 1.040


As long as there are no "off" smells, I wouldn't worry about a fast ferment.


----------



## winemaker81

BigDaveK said:


> The downside? 6 carboys out of commission for at least 6 months. I'm sure you feel my pain.


Out of commission??? Nope. They are in use. An empty carboy is out of commission. Your POV is backwards.


----------



## vinny

BigDaveK said:


> My morning routine - make coffee, feed indoor and outdoor cats, watch bubbles in airlocks for a couple minutes.
> 
> And I'm glad I'm not the only one who dreams about making wine!


Awkward confession... One was at your place. we were working to get the walnuts down so you could make wine.. I've been meaning to thank you for your hospitality. Your property is great and the cats are lovely.


----------



## BigDaveK

winemaker81 said:


> Out of commission??? Nope. They are in use. An empty carboy is out of commission. Your POV is backwards.


Yikes, I was wrong, you're absolutely right! I guess I horribly confused "equipment inventory" with "in use". Won't happen again!


----------



## vinny

BigDaveK said:


> Yikes, I was wrong, you're absolutely right! I guess I horribly confused "equipment inventory" with "in use". Won't happen again!


I suppose it depends on whether you are a wine maker or a wine drinker. If you like making more than drinking, then I suppose one could see it from your first perspective.


----------



## barryjo

winemaker81 said:


> @vinny, wait until you're making 60+ gallons in 2 weeks ...


I came home from an extended vacation (6 weeks) to find 15 five gallon batches of wine ready to bottle. Never again!


----------



## vinny

barryjo said:


> I came home from an extended vacation (6 weeks) to find 15 five gallon batches of wine ready to bottle. Never again!


Ready to bottle doesn't mean have to bottle!


----------



## Shurt1073

Both Dragon Blood 6 gallon carboys I purchased via Internet arrived today shattered/broken in the boxes .... I did not accept from FedEx. UGGGGG

First they lose Chuck Noland (Tom Hanks in Castaway) in a plane crash for four years on a deserted island but now break my carboys while they are still in the box!


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> Both Dragon Blood 6 gallon carboys I purchased via Internet arrived today shattered/broken in the boxes .... I did not accept from FedEx. UGGGGG
> 
> First they lose Chuck Noland (Tom Hanks in Castaway) in a plane crash for four years on a deserted island but now break my carboys while they are still in the box!


Depending on what you ordered, it may be for the best. This is way more information than you will ever want on the subject, but the beginning will give you the gist, and at the 15 minute mark you can see how cheaply made carboys have severe flaws in them. 



I have not experienced a carboy failure. In fact I dropped a full amazon 3 gallon on my quartz counter and it survived and chipped the counter, but I figure you deserve fair warning. Apparently in the last few years cheap carboys have been failing on people. Literally failing without being touched, or the bottom drops out when picked up. Buying Italian carboys from a brew shop seems to be a safe bet, as well as used ones.


----------



## Shurt1073

I saw this video and was sure to order "made in Italy" carboys. Guessing I need another plan! I appreciate seeing the video again though .... its an interesting watch.


----------



## QuiQuog

Besides the possibilities of counterfits on Amazon, FedEx/UPS is the weak link in buying carboys online. I'm about an hour and a half from my nearest best option, so I make the trip every now and then when I need something and make sure to get whatever else I may need while I'm there. It looks like Indiana has a smattering of them througout the state as well. I don't know where you live, but an afternoon trip may be in order. And may be more reliable than taking your chances with shipping.


----------



## Shurt1073

My chemicals arrived last night, two bags of triple berries were thawing out and I thought the stars & moon were at the right angle for the start of my Dragons Blood wine. Thought about trying to video the process and then it dawned on me this might be a really bad idea. lol. Anyway, the DB sat all night as the recipe indicated and today at 12p I pitched the yeast. With a warm heated blanket hugging my fermentor to 76* we now have activity.

Wife thinks I need help, (professional help) because I stand watching my fermentor for any changes. The smell is really good and I thought this might be a blush but NO ..... its a dark red/purple after just 20 hrs. I'm sorry to carry on but there is no one as excited about making new wines and talking about it than YOU GUYS.


----------



## winemaker81

Shurt1073 said:


> Wife thinks I need help, (professional help)


Your wife is correct, you need help. You probably need regular doses of medication. Fortunately, you make your own!


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> Wife thinks I need help, (professional help) because I stand watching my fermentor for any changes.



The problem here is that we are your only support group, but there is not a single one among us that is not an enabler.


----------



## Shurt1073

vinny said:


> The problem here is that we are your only support group, but there is not a single one among us that is not an enabler.




Well ... I read your post and almost pee'd myself a little!


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> Well ... I read your post and almost pee'd myself a little!


Well.. Thank you, it's entirely my pleasure!


----------



## sour_grapes

Shurt1073 said:


> Well ... I read your post and almost pee'd myself a little!



We will have to "up our game" a bit so that next time you actually do pee yourself!


----------



## Shurt1073

OH OH OH (yelling) .... I have a nice foam top fermenting. The smell is awesome and the color is not a blush but a darker red.


----------



## Shurt1073

I started with a 1.076 sg and we are now at 1.048 so its making Dragons Blood triple berry wine! I feel more like a vintner tonight than I ever did with the Island Mist wine kits. *Exciting times for my first Dragons Blood*.


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> I started with a 1.076 sg and we are now at 1.048 so its making Dragons Blood triple berry wine! I feel more like a vintner tonight than I ever did with the Island Mist wine kits. *Exciting times for my first Dragons Blood*.



Looks like we have a new member folks!


----------



## Shurt1073

OH ... its about to get real at my house! Pitched the yeast on my Dragons Blood on 10-27 at 1.076 sg and today 10-31 we are at 1.012 sg. Things are moving right along with fermentation and I'm guessing it will be less than 7 days now. I started re-reading this forum (at page 145 now) and hope *not* to return to the days of Island Mist fruit wine kits or last least for a long while. The triple berry will be great but the possibilities of just a blackberry or raspberry by adding fruit and some extract have peaked my interest. 

Also working on my Dragons Blood bottle etched and vinyl labels.


----------



## QuiQuog

Shurt1073 said:


> OH ... its about to get real at my house! Pitched the yeast on my Dragons Blood on 10-27 at 1.076 sg and today 10-31 we are at 1.012 sg. Things are moving right along with fermentation and I'm guessing it will be less than 7 days now. I started re-reading this forum (at page 145 now) and hope *not* to return to the days of Island Mist fruit wine kits or last least for a long while. The triple berry will be great but the possibilities of just a blackberry or raspberry by adding fruit and some extract have peaked my interest.
> 
> Also working on my Dragons Blood bottle etched and vinyl labels.


Interesting. I started mine on the 23rd and as of yesterday it was 1.020. Although I did try to keep the house cooler to slow it down. It's been 62-65 degrees most of those days. The DB has been fermenting right around 70 degrees. What's been your temp?

Edit: Actually, that reading was on Saturday. I pulled the berries and oak and capped it. It's bubbling away now until I check it next weekend.


----------



## Shurt1073

QuiQuog said:


> The DB has been fermenting right around 70 degrees. What's been your temp?



Right at 78* wrapped up in a blanket. I am doing a hard stir and a lighter stir one time per day 12 hrs apart. 8lbs of triple berries from Sam's and it smells amazing. 

My last raspberry kit from Island Mist did not turn out very well. I had a lot of sediment in the bottle although it was bottled clear. Probably started fermenting again in the bottle and its obvious I made some mistakes along the way. I'm anxious to try another Dragons Blood with raspberry and adding the extract for added flavor. We are headed to warmer weather at the end of Dec so another DB has to wait until 2023.


----------



## Shurt1073

Last night and today my ferment has been at .992 ... think it would be ok to start the next process of K-meta, Sorbate, and Degas? The other option is to wait one more day but I'm not sure there is value in waiting.


----------



## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> Last night and today my ferment has been at .992 ... think it would be ok to start the next process of K-meta, Sorbate, and Degas? The other option is to wait one more day but I'm not sure there is value in waiting.


I would carry on and get it into secondary.


----------



## QuiQuog

Shurt1073 said:


> Last night and today my ferment has been at .992 ... think it would be ok to start the next process of K-meta, Sorbate, and Degas? The other option is to wait one more day but I'm not sure there is value in waiting.


Probably, but It's hard to say without a couple of details. Did you remove the fruit bag and discontinue stirring to let the lees settle? That way when you rack into the carboy, less gunk will get transferred. The other main main consideration at this point is the degassing part. You can't rack it all into the carboy and degass, you'll overflow. You can rack half and half into 2 carboys and degass each of those, then fill up one with the other. When I was low on carboys, I racked it off the lees into the carboy, rinsed the pail really well, racked it back into the pail and degassed there. Then racked back into the carboy for clearing.

One point about degassing that you probably already know, but it's worth mentioning since the weather is getting cooler. Your wine will degass better at higher temperature. If you have a brew belt or some other warming device, you may want to bring the temp up to around 70 something.


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## vinny

I don't find degassing to be much to worry about. The drill attachment works well and time does the rest. Its a good point not to Degass in a full carboy unless you enjoy mopping. 

This might be something to consider with a quick wine like DB. I got the idea from another member. I was waiting to set up a filter, and now my back is out so I'm not lifting a carboy till it smartens up. the bottling I started last week is on hold. Because I have excess headspace from racking and tasting I have my carboys under vacuum. You can get a little hand pump for 30 bucks. If you start your degass with a drill and put the wine under vacuum for a week you will have no concerns with excess co2. I had the pex valves in my plumbing supplies. I just stuck them in a regular stopper with a hole, pump up some vacuum, shut the valve and it will hold. As it degasses the vacuum will fall a bit, I pump them back up once a day for the first week.then they settle when gas is no longer released.


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## Shurt1073

I bought the All In One Wine Pump a couple weeks ago plus I use my food saver to degass so between the two I hope to be ok. This has been so exciting making wine from a recipe. I had to order chemicals, buy berries & sugar at Sam's and a few other things! Today and tomorrow is about degassing. Thank you so much for the responses and listening to me carry on.


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## vinny

Shurt1073 said:


> I bought the All In One Wine Pump a couple weeks ago plus I use my food saver to degass so between the two I hope to be ok. This has been so exciting making wine from a recipe. I had to order chemicals, buy berries & sugar at Sam's and a few other things! Today and tomorrow is about degassing. Thank you so much for the responses and listening to me carry on.



That's brilliant. I never thought of the food saver. I have the one with the vacuum hose on it and it never even crossed my mind. Another thing that's going in the wine room! I'm gonna go try right now.


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## vinny

Well that's my favorite thing of the day. That baby pulls 18 inches Hg of vacuum. Perfect for degassing. No more hand pumping for this guy. 

You're so smart!


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## Shurt1073

vinny said:


> Well that's my favorite thing of the day. That baby pulls 18 inches Hg of vacuum. Perfect for degassing. No more hand pumping for this guy.
> 
> You're so smart!



Pretty sure I stole the idea from someone else. Between the both they appear to do a pretty good job for me.


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## QuiQuog

Shurt1073 said:


> I bought the All In One Wine Pump a couple weeks ago plus I use my food saver to degass so between the two I hope to be ok. This has been so exciting making wine from a recipe. I had to order chemicals, buy berries & sugar at Sam's and a few other things! Today and tomorrow is about degassing. Thank you so much for the responses and listening to me carry on.



What!? That's just awesome! I wonder if I still have the hose thing for mine.


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## Bill Pet

I use a hand pump that looks just like you show in the picture. Since I only make one wine batch at a time I don't use a valve. I have found that the one way valve in the pump is sufficient to hold the vacuum. As you noted, as the wine degasses the vacuum drops so I have to pump a little more until it stops degassing.


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## QuiQuog

I'll bet you can rig up the hoses on the food saver and use it similar to the wine pump.


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## Raptor99

Shurt1073 said:


> I bought the All In One Wine Pump a couple weeks ago plus I use my food saver to degass so between the two I hope to be ok.


Brilliant! I'll have to try that.


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## Shurt1073

Degassing my Dragons Blood since 1pm yesterday and you can see all the bubbles. I used the vacuum saver for 10 minutes on the hour until 7p last night and put the carboy under a vacuum air lock last night. Today we started degassing again, and its about to wear out my my vacuum saver. Still bubbles .... a dozen times today for 5-10 min and still getting bubbles. 

I have not put in my clearing agent. According to the DB directions the clearing agent comes after degassing. 

At what point do you finish degassing Dragons Blood? Keep degassing for another day?


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## Bill Pet

I use a (Harbor Freight) hand vacuum pump for degassing. It takes me several days to fully degas. The first day I need to pump several times and then less on subsequent days. My pump has a gauge on it. At a certain point the bubbles become very small and the vacuum holds at a value less than 0. That is when I stop. 
BTW, when I rack the final time before degassing, I let the wine splash which gets the majority of the CO2 out. I figure since the wine at that point is absolutely loaded with CO2, there is little chance it will pick up too much O2. I also put a wadded up paper towel around the hose as it goes into the neck of the carboy to reduce the fresh air that can come into to carboy.


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## Shurt1073

After degassing on Friday like my hair was on fire I decided to move on with my clearing agents with some good advice. This morning I woke up, ran to the carboy, and it looks like a new wine. Gonna say its only been 36 hrs since I added the clearing but *holy moly*. It is a deeper color now.


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## winemaker81

Shurt1073 said:


> After degassing on Friday like my hair was on fire I decided to move on with my clearing agents with some good advice. This morning I woke up, ran to the carboy, and it looks like a new wine. Gonna say its only been 36 hrs since I added the clearing but *holy moly*. It is a deeper color now.


K&C usually starts working in a matter of hours. I've had a few batches where it took a week, but that's unusual IME.


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## QuiQuog

Shurt1073 said:


> Degassing my Dragons Blood since 1pm yesterday and you can see all the bubbles. I used the vacuum saver for 10 minutes on the hour until 7p last night and put the carboy under a vacuum air lock last night. Today we started degassing again, and its about to wear out my my vacuum saver. Still bubbles .... a dozen times today for 5-10 min and still getting bubbles.
> 
> I have not put in my clearing agent. According to the DB directions the clearing agent comes after degassing.
> 
> At what point do you finish degassing Dragons Blood? Keep degassing for another day?


Hmm, that’s not promising. If you use a drill mounted whip, you’re done in 10 minutes.


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## QuiQuog

winemaker81 said:


> K&C usually starts working in a matter of hours. I've had a few batches where it took a week, but that's unusual IME.


To add on to this, you should wait a at least a couple days, if not a week even when it looks clear. It will continue to drop sediment that you can’t really see.


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## winemaker81

QuiQuog said:


> To add on to this, you should wait a at least a couple days, if not a week even when it looks clear. It will continue to drop sediment that you can’t really see.


Agreed. Probably the worst fining mistake is, "it looks clear".

On occasion, I've fined with K&C, and 6 months later at bottling time, discovered a very fine layer on the bottom of the carboy that was not visible until the very end of racking. This is the major reason I leave a bit in the carboy at bottling time, and add that remainder to the last bottle (or my glass if the bottles are all full). Better one less-than-clear bottle than all of 'em.

Yesterday when bottling, I reserved 19 liter of 2 batches, which I treated with K&C. I'll bottle these carboys in 2 to 4 weeks. I'm interested in seeing how much sediment K&C pull out of "clear" wines (these are 2021 wines), and if the K&C treated wine smells/tastes different than the non-treated bottles.


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## Shurt1073

I'll take this advice and wait extra before racking again. I'm so excited about my Dragons Blood but I'm also not in that big a hurry to bottle. I'm not leaving town until the end of Dec and plan to take a few bottles with me.


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## winemaker81

Shurt1073 said:


> I'll take this advice and wait extra before racking again. I'm so excited about my Dragons Blood but I'm also not in that big a hurry to bottle. I'm not leaving town until the end of Dec and plan to take a few bottles with me.


Bottle at the end of Nov/beginning of Dec to give the wine a chance to recover from bottle shock. Not all wines experience it, but there is a corollary to Murphy's law that says it will happen 100% when you're showing a wine off.


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## mat_ski

I started the batch of this recipe over the weekend. Then I realized there is 281 pages on this thread. I’ll post my results.


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## Shurt1073

mat_ski said:


> I started the batch of this recipe over the weekend. Then I realized there is 281 pages on this thread. I’ll post my results.




Welcome to the club! Dragons Blood will NOT speed up if you stand there and watch it ... just sayin' cause I've done it. lol. Good luck with it. I bottle my first in a few weeks.


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## Ericphotoart

My advice, try it after it’s done but don’t drink everything. Wait 3 months and try again. You will see ( and taste ) a huge difference.


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## Shurt1073

Update: Stood in front of my Dragons Blood carboy today for about 20 minutes. I know its getting close so I started playing with the Holographic vinyl labels again.


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## Shurt1073

Dragon Blood watch 2022 .... its been 10 days since the clearing agents and it looks great but lets give it more time. I have stood watching it, sat watching, talked to it and yesterday tried to sing to my Dragons Blood but not much has helped to speed up this process! Is it ready for the next step? Yes, maybe, probably but I've got time to let it sit.


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## Ericphotoart

My quadberry DB is working with the Superkleer for 11 days now and although it looks crystal clear I will wait till Sunday, for the next 5 days to rack it.


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## vinny

I found a bottle of DB in the fridge last night. I thought they were *all *gone, long ago! I really liked it when I first made it, but I found this bottle lacking substance. This has to be 8 months old, so maybe it passed it's time, or maybe it speaks to the progression of what I am making.


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## Ericphotoart

I just wondered, how big is your fridge?


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## vinny

Ericphotoart said:


> I just wondered, how big is your fridge?


I should have stated *wine* fridge, it was tucked away on the bottom shelf.


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## mat_ski

Step 5 yesterday. Looking good, I think.


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## Jovimaple

I made a triple berry DB last year from Costco's Kirkland triple berry fruit. I bottled it in March of 2021. We opened a bottle yesterday at Thanksgiving dinner and it was delicious! The aging definitely smoothed it out.

I used 12 lbs of fruit for 6 gallons, which is about 1.5 times the amount of fruit in the original recipe, if I recall correctly. I made my first batch according to the recipe (tweaked to make 3 gallons instead of 5) and it was a bit light on fruit for my taste.


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## Shurt1073

My Dragon Blood is close ..... real close. I can feel the Dragons breath when I get near. The batch was started on Oct 26th and plan to bottle the first week of December.


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## Jovimaple

Don't forget to post how many gallons (DB is counted as a variant of Skeeter Pee): 

How many gallons of Lon D's Skeeter Pee have been made?


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## mat_ski

Pretty tasty, can’t wait to try it in few months.


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