# Fermaid Additions



## Rob_S (Nov 29, 2016)

Would like to compare notes. How much Fermaid do you usually add at beginning of fermentation and how much at 1/3 sugar depletion?

Sometimes I get H2S issues with the rate on the bag of 0.3 g/Litre. For example when doing 70 litres of must, would come to 21 g of Fermaid, and would add about 11 g at beginning and the other 10 g at 1/3 sugar depletion. At that rate I'm getting H2S issues, and that's even with some added DAP. So perhaps I'm not adding enough and thinking maybe I should add 0.3g/Litre at beginning and again another 0.3g/L at 1/3 sugar depletion, thereby doubling the amount of Fermaid I've been adding? 

Rob


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## cmason1957 (Nov 29, 2016)

I generally don't add any at the beginning of fermentation, but wait for a day or two and then add half of what I calculated and the other half at the 1/3 sugar depletion point. Occasionally I get a whiff of H2S issues and add another 1/4 amount. It seems to work for me.


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## Rob_S (Nov 29, 2016)

cmason1957 said:


> I generally don't add any at the beginning of fermentation, but wait for a day or two and then add half of what I calculated and the other half at the 1/3 sugar depletion point. Occasionally I get a whiff of H2S issues and add another 1/4 amount. It seems to work for me.



I usually add half at the beginning of the Cap formation. How do you calculate how much to add?


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## ceeaton (Nov 29, 2016)

Rob, what yeast are you using? I usually go to Lallemand's site ( http://www.lallemandwine.com/north-america/products/catalogue/ ) and see how heavy of a nitrogen requirement the yeast has. Many times if it isn't a heavy feeder I add the first 1/2 once fermentation starts up in earnest and wait to see if I get any off smells before adding the balance, I usually use Fermaid O since it can be added later in the process and still be used up.

I also use Go Ferm to rehydrate with in the beginning, whether it's a kit or all grapes, but only add nutrients to all grape batches (unless there are strong H2S odors with the kit ferment).

For Fermaid O (1.5grams x X gallons estimated must / 2 = 1/2 addition). Ex. 110 lbs grapes is usually about 7.5 gallons must so (1.5 x 7.5) / 2 = 5.625 grams (I put in 6 grams).


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## Rob_S (Nov 29, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Rob, what yeast are you using? I usually go to Lallemand's site ( http://www.lallemandwine.com/north-america/products/catalogue/ ) and see how heavy of a nitrogen requirement the yeast has. Many times if it isn't a heavy feeder I add the first 1/2 once fermentation starts up in earnest and wait to see if I get any off smells before adding the balance, I usually use Fermaid O since it can be added later in the process and still be used up.
> 
> I also use Go Ferm to rehydrate with in the beginning, whether it's a kit or all grapes, but only add nutrients to all grape batches (unless there are strong H2S odors with the kit ferment).
> 
> For Fermaid O (1.5grams x X gallons estimated must / 2 = 1/2 addition). Ex. 110 lbs grapes is usually about 7.5 gallons must so (1.5 x 7.5) / 2 = 5.625 grams (I put in 6 grams).



Thanks Craig, I've been seeing more H2S issues with yeasts such as CSM and RC212 and they are high N demand yeasts. The latest must I've used is from Niagara Falls, a Cabernet Sauvignon, and the grower has told me the grapes usually are on the low side for YAN. The package I have is labelled just 'Fermaid', I'm pretty sure it is Fermaid K, have been adding the other half at 1/3 depletion and beyond if seeing H2S even though it has a slight bit of DAP compared to Fermaid O that would not have any DAP at all. What happens is I'm usually at work when the issues start so can't intervene right away by adding a bit more organic nutrients. I just found an interesting and excellent 'sticky' article on this Web forum by Deezil titled 'Yeast Nutrients', under the section 'Additives & Wine Making Science'. This should prove useful to get an educated estimate on the nutrient additions. Not a simple question, and thanks for stepping up and from what I can see you seem to be adding about twice what I have been using. This will help convince me I should be adding more nutrients. 

Rob


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## ceeaton (Nov 29, 2016)

Rob_S said:


> I just found an interesting and excellent 'sticky' article on this Web forum by Deezil titled 'Yeast Nutrients', under the section 'Additives & Wine Making Science'. This should prove useful to get an educated estimate on the nutrient additions. Not a simple question, and thanks for stepping up and from what I can see you seem to be adding about twice what I have been using. This will help convince me I should be adding more nutrients.
> 
> Rob



I was looking for that article and was going to suggest it, it might be nice to post a link to it here to complete the circle. And since I don't do the estimation of the nutrients in the must like he has been doing, I've been following the instructions on MoreWinemaking.com's site. My results have been good so far (I've used RC 212 a few times in the past and that is where I was having my issues) and I haven't noticed any bacterial issues from left over nutrients in my finished wines, though most of them are at most 18 months old.


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## Rob_S (Nov 29, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> I was looking for that article and was going to suggest it, it might be nice to post a link to it here to complete the circle. And since I don't do the estimation of the nutrients in the must like he has been doing, I've been following the instructions on MoreWinemaking.com's site. My results have been good so far (I've used RC 212 a few times in the past and that is where I was having my issues) and I haven't noticed any bacterial issues from left over nutrients in my finished wines, though most of them are at most 18 months old.



Great idea, here's the link: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39655

CSM seems even worst for the YAN requirements, although I like it for Hybrid grapes. MoreWine has helped me out a lot too, good basic principles.

Rob


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## NorCal (Nov 29, 2016)

I've had varying levels of h2s. Always Ferm K to the instructions. Never fun to deal with. @4Score and I switched to Renaissance yeast this year and not even a hint of h2s on any of our ferments. I don't see using any other yeast going forward.

From their web site:
Renaissance Yeast Inc. is a leader in the development and commercialization of hydrogen sulfide-preventing wine yeasts for winemakers worldwide. Our highly experienced research staff is dedicated to developing yeasts that address and solve some of the industry’s most important challenges.


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## Stressbaby (Nov 29, 2016)

Sorry to threadjack here, but @Norcal, what is your source for the Renaissance Yeast? I might like to try it out, but a quick search of my usual online suppliers doesn't get any hits.


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## NorCal (Nov 29, 2016)

Stressbaby said:


> Sorry to threadjack here, but @Norcal, what is your source for the Renaissance Yeast? I might like to try it out, but a quick search of my usual online suppliers doesn't get any hits.



It is not widely distributed. Check the distributor listed on their website.


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## zadvocate (Oct 5, 2017)

I have been trying to figure this out too. I am starting to believe the one dose of Fermaid K should be .5 g/l split in 2 not .3 split in 2. I found this spreadsheet that says there is a typo in the Scott Labs manual. https://www.reddit.com/r/mead/comments/4tjqau/here_is_yet_another_version_of_my_yan_nutrient/ 
so for Fermaid. I followed the Scott labs information and got H2S this year.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 5, 2017)

Interesting. I had always seen the amount of Fermaid K to use as 2 lbs/1000 gallons, which works out to the .3/l number, but I just found this number in this document. 2-4 lbs/1000 gallons. 

http://catalogapp.lallemandwine.com.../8f8a786600b39ce404d0b8fad0386bbbc5a45bb4.pdf


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## stickman (Oct 6, 2017)

I found this information on Fermaid products. I noticed that they called DAP Diammonium Sulphate, which should be Diammonium Phosphate.


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