# My wild vine



## jswordy (May 27, 2013)

*My wild vine (NOW with grape pic)*

The entire front half of my farm was once a vineyard. When we arrived, it had all pretty much gone away. Our livestock ate the rest.

But now I have noticed over the past 2 years a grape growing in a cedar tree, in a sideyard of the farm that is not pastured and once was rows of grapes. It's probably from a bird dropping, but I like to fantasize that it is somehow a survivor, protected by the low branches of the tree.





In last year's drought, it produced a sparse crop of black, raisin sized fruit, very hard. The crop was eaten by the birds. It makes me wonder if the fruit is unusable, or whether it was just the dry and shady conditions.





This year, I am allowing it to grow again, though its time is limited since it is taking over the tree. Probably next year, I will take some cuttings and I will be forced to cut it out. It's a mystery plant right now.


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## jamesngalveston (May 27, 2013)

jswordy....the last pick showed the underside as a whitish color.
you sure those are not mustang grapes...looks like it to me...but i am no grapevine expert.
i have a treeline on a road about 1 mile long, it is completely full of them.
last year didnt get any, this year its a bumper crop.


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## BobR (May 27, 2013)

We had probably discussed this a while back while reliving the good ol' days, but I can remember three years ago getting excited over some vines that were growing on my grandfathers old farm. He died back in Sept. '73, but on a hillside, he had a Concord vineyard that as a kid I can remember running up and down the rows of grapes and of course I can remember eating those grapes. Back 4 or 5 years ago, when I first became interested in growing some old grapes, I had mentioned to my brother that I wish that I had a start from the old grapes from the farm. He told me that ever year while cutting and bailing the grass, there were grapes growing on that hillside. I checked that hillside for a couple of years but never seen anything and then one day I was walking through and there was this row of grapes just visible above the tall grass. My brother brought the tractor over and cut around the area and I marked them so that they would not be cut and bailed. I stuck a couple of old metal posts in the ground and strung a wire only to find out that they were wild grapes. They are still there, but so much for thinking that they were Concords. I have always wondered if they could have been Concords that over the years have reverted to a wild grape? I need to run that by a plant science guy some time.


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## jswordy (May 27, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> jswordy....the last pick showed the underside as a whitish color.
> you sure those are not mustang grapes...looks like it to me...but i am no grapevine expert.
> i have a treeline on a road about 1 mile long, it is completely full of them.
> last year didnt get any, this year its a bumper crop.


 
According to Keller, mustang doesn't grow this far North. The predominant wild grape here is muscadine. But who knows? We never used to have armadillos, but we got 'em now! I'm awaiting the fruit again, but I don't think it will be telling until I have a rooted cutting growing in full sun.


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## jswordy (May 27, 2013)

Here is what intrigues me...









Upper and lower, from left: Catawba, Norton, vitis aestivalis.

Vitis aestivalis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_aestivalis


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## jamesngalveston (May 27, 2013)

I am no expert by far...the Catawba looks just like the ones I have, which I thought were Muscadines, but a botanist visitor tells me no...there mustang.
Maybe all the grapes are the same, just different characters with temp,dirt,etc.
If it looks good and taste good I eat it, now make wine out of it..LOL


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## grapeman (May 28, 2013)

If the grapes were black and looked like raisins, they probably had gotten black rot because that is how they look when they get it. If so, you will never eat them as they get shriveled and hard. If you propagate them and keep them disease free, then you can see what they produce.


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## jswordy (May 28, 2013)

grapeman said:


> If the grapes were black and looked like raisins, they probably had gotten black rot because that is how they look when they get it. If so, you will never eat them as they get shriveled and hard. If you propagate them and keep them disease free, then you can see what they produce.



I took a couple green cuttings. We'll see. What's the stuff for black rot?


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## grapeman (May 28, 2013)

jswordy said:


> I took a couple green cuttings. We'll see. What's the stuff for black rot?


A lot of products for black rot, like mancozeb and dithane and I am sure you can also find organic products for it.


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## bigdrums2 (May 28, 2013)

To me they look like Vitis bicolor, which definitely grows in cold regions, a version of aestivalis.


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## jswordy (May 28, 2013)

Guess I'll have to see by fruit if it produces this year. Too far north and east for mustang; too far south for vitis bicolor. I think it's most likely to be muscadine or catawba. Interesting it should pop up in the last couple years. I hope the cuttings take, since I will definitely have to cut it out of the tree before it takes over.


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## bigdrums2 (May 29, 2013)

It's not muscadine. Probably just a local, wild aestavalis.


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## jswordy (Jun 18, 2013)

Now I have green grapes, and yep, it's either aestavalis or bicolor. Doubt I'll have enough of a crop to make a gallon of wine, though.

All things considered, I'll likely just remove it as a weed after observing it this year.


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## Sammyk (Jun 18, 2013)

You can take a clump of the grapes and leaves to the co-op extension office. Make sure you have leaves and grapes on the sample. They have what is called a "key" to identify them. I know because we both volunteered in the co-op extension office to identify what residents brought in for identification using a "key". Look under co-op extension under your county.


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## jswordy (Jun 19, 2013)

Well we've got grapes!


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## GreginND (Jun 19, 2013)

And they look like nice grapes. Too big to just be wild grapes. Can't wait to see them ripe.


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## jswordy (Jun 19, 2013)

I believe these are a "Black Spanish" grape. It is an aestavalis variety. And it is Lenoir, says the Web.

Look at this...





Now look at my young leaves...





Plus I do have a bunch grape growing, as shown by the bunch I photographed last evening. So it looks real likely. If so, I MUST propagate them before I remove the parent.


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## bigdrums2 (Jun 23, 2013)

It could be, but I still doubt it is anything other than an aestavalis variety. I also grow black Spanish, and honestly your plant looks closer to norton than Lenoir. Wild aestavalis can produce some wonderful looking clusters. Next year when they bloom, see if the variety is single sexed or a hermaphrodite. That will answer your question right there.


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## jswordy (Aug 2, 2013)

Some have ripened now. They are almost black and a slip-skin grape. Locals would call them a "muscadine" generically.


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## Sammyk (Aug 3, 2013)

Jim how come the photos cannot be seen?


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## bigdrums2 (Aug 3, 2013)

Slip skin muscadine?


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## jswordy (Aug 5, 2013)

Sammyk said:


> Jim how come the photos cannot be seen?



I reorganized by Photobucket account into files. It messes them up if they are linked somewhere else.


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## jswordy (Aug 5, 2013)

bigdrums2 said:


> Slip skin muscadine?



Absolutely, a muscadine is a slip-skin grape.


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## jswordy (Aug 10, 2013)

This is all I have to show for what the grapes on the vine look like. I have had a grand total of four; the birds get them quick, and because the vine's in a cedar tree I can't net it. It's about 1/2-3/4 inch wide, green fruit, sweet juice, bitter skin. Would be good for wine if I want to start cuttings elsewhere.





Been so little sun here this year all the grapes are having a hard time ripening. Even my blueberries are largely unripe as-yet.


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## bigdrums2 (Aug 12, 2013)

That's a nice size berry. I done some wild wine every year, but have to get the ladder out to reach some of the clusters.


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## jswordy (Aug 16, 2013)

bigdrums2 said:


> That's a nice size berry. I done some wild wine every year, but have to get the ladder out to reach some of the clusters.



I agree on the berry. The vine looks to be I'd guess ~ 2 years old. It has some wood now, and I'd love to transplant some but I doubt I can get the site prepped in time this year. Soooo ... looks like it survives another year. I think it has potential if cultivated.


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## jswordy (Jul 25, 2014)

Here I am a year later dredging up this old mystery vine thread to let everyone know it is indeed a muscadine. More rain this year and a better established vine are yielding classic muscadine grapes.


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