# No wine yeast....



## thirrsty (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi I would appreciate it if you share your knowledge and experience with me.

I am new to wine making. I have made my first try out bottle of grape juice wine 5 days ago.
It consists simply of the juice, sugar and instant yeast.

The steps were:
adding some yeast into a cup and pouring water over it, it became foamy and I added it to the juice, added sugar and shook it.
I open it daily (think I'm not supposed to). It has a sort of a sweet smell after shaking, the juice gets foamy on the top like a carbonated drink it also releases gas after shaking. Is there any danger of testing it or even drinking once it completes two weeks or so?

I have no access to wine east or nutrients so I would love instant yeast wine recipes from you.


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## spaniel (Oct 23, 2012)

If you have access to the internet to post on this forum, and a mailing address, you have access to all the winemaking equipment you need!

Bread yeast will make alcohol, sure, but it will never taste great. Trust me, I tried. Bread and wine yeast are selected for totally different traits.


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## wineutopia (Oct 23, 2012)

spaniel said:


> If you have access to the internet to post on this forum, and a mailing address, you have access to all the winemaking equipment you need!



My exact thoughts!


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## cohenhouse77 (Oct 23, 2012)

So you are making Tang with rain water or Kool-aid with a glass of public swimming pool water. Fish and chips man! Get some wine yeast off Ebay for $.99 a packet or Midwest Supplies even sells a one gallon kit with carboys and all the nutrient, campden, pectic enzyme, and more to keep you going for several batches for around $35. You can get free shipping items and good cheap supplies. Spend time on these forums and formulate your wish list. 

I open the lid and stir my primary batches twice a day for the first 7 to 10 days. You aren't going wrong there.

Eventually, don't just make a drink you can't stand but gives you a buzz. Make something your friends fight you for and you are proud of.....that gives you a buzz.


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## cohenhouse77 (Oct 23, 2012)

Also, it is safe to take small tastes, but remember that wine is better once it ages. It's going to taste like cough syrup in two weeks, especially with bread yeast. Looking for a quick turnaround drink? Check out: http://skeeterpee.com

Again, basic wine ingredients will be required for anything to be enjoyable.


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## thirrsty (Oct 24, 2012)

Smh wine and liquor is ILLEGAL where I live. So shipping in wine making items wouldn't be?
Anyways if any yeast still works, there must be something to improve the taste right?


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Oct 24, 2012)

Shipping wine yeast and supplies are not Illegal in the U.S. but some countrys it is. If you live in the states, even in a dry county we can ship to you leagaly.
Let us know what you want and where you live.
Cheers!


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## wyntheef (Oct 24, 2012)

thirrsty said:


> Smh wine and liquor is ILLEGAL where I live. So shipping in wine making items wouldn't be?



found this recipe for you. hth.

"Prison hooch can be made in your cell toilet (as long as you don't mind using other people's toilets or finding some other solution), or more often, in plastic trash bags. The recipe is simple: make a strong bag by double or triple-bagging some plastic trash bags and knotting the bottoms. Into this, pour warm water, some fruit or fruit juice, raisins or tomatoes, yeast, and as much sugar as you can get ahold of (or powdered drink mix). Now tie off the top of the bag, letting a tube of some kind protrude so the thing won't explode while it gives off carbon dioxide. Now hide the bag somewhere and wait at least three days. A week is enough.

*One of the problems you have right away with making wine in prison is the difficulty getting yeast*. It's a strictly forbidden item and you might not be able to get any. In this case you can improvise the by using slices of bread, preferably moldy (but not dry) and preferably inside a sock for easier straining.

If you choose to brew your wine in your cell, you'll need to hide it behind your bunk and do what you can to hide the smell. Burning cinnamon as incense is one way. Spraying deodorant around is another. Normal wine takes at least a month if not six weeks to make at all properly -- but in hell, this is all you get."


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## JohnT (Oct 24, 2012)

thirrsty said:


> Smh wine and liquor is ILLEGAL where I live. So shipping in wine making items wouldn't be?
> Anyways if any yeast still works, there must be something to improve the taste right?


 
Thirrsty, 

You can, in fact, make wine from bread yeast, however, your results might not be very good. Bread yeasts are engineered to rise fast and are rather aggressive. They are engineered for the making of bread and are not expected to be used in a long, drawn out process like making wine. 

I see no harm in ordering yeast over the internet as you can now probably go to a store in your country and purchase yeast (for bread). If anyone asks, just say that you intend to make a french bread with a french wine yeast. 

Good luck. 

johnT.


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## thirrsty (Oct 24, 2012)

JohnT said:


> Thirrsty,
> 
> You can, in fact, make wine from bread yeast, however, your results might not be very good. Bread yeasts are engineered to rise fast and are rather aggressive. They are engineered for the making of bread and are not expected to be used in a long, drawn out process like making wine.
> 
> ...



Are you talking in terms of flavor?
Do baker's yeast and wine yeast produce the same amount of alcohol?


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Oct 24, 2012)

Bakers yeast produces about 7% to 10%, wine yeast produces from 12% to 18%. Distilling yeast will go up to 23% but don't think you would want to use that for making wine.
EC 1118 wine yeast will hit 18% for 99c a pack which will do up to 6 gallons. Just need to add enough sugar.


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## shoelesst (Oct 24, 2012)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> Bakers yeast produces about 7% to 10%, wine yeast produces from 12% to 18%. Distilling yeast will go up to 23% but don't think you would want to use that for making wine.
> EC 1118 wine yeast will hit 18% for 99c a pack which will do up to 6 gallons. Just need to add enough sugar.



I've seen this exact same post on another forum years ago and a gentlemen mentioned that although bread yeast is rated for only low alcohol level, he had occasions where it fermented his wine dry. I think there has to be an element of luck here. So don't expect the breast yeast to finish the fermentation but maybe you'll be lucky.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Oct 24, 2012)

with a low enough sugar content it will ferment dry.


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## shoelesst (Oct 24, 2012)

Brew and Wine Supply said:


> with a low enough sugar content it will ferment dry.



This guy specifically mentioned it being in the usual wine range(12-14%)
Again, this is not first hand experience for me, just a thread I read a few years ago on another forum. I have no actual experience using bread yeast.


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## Deezil (Oct 25, 2012)

Thirrsty, sorry it took me so long - had to find the thread

I had a conversation with another person, in a similiar predicament. I dont know what ever came of it but i was on a roll during those oouple days, tryin to help him out.

Might be worth a read


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## thirrsty (Oct 25, 2012)

Deezil said:


> Thirrsty, sorry it took me so long - had to find the thread
> 
> I had a conversation with another person, in a similiar predicament. I dont know what ever came of it but i was on a roll during those oouple days, tryin to help him out.
> 
> Might be worth a read



Thanks deezil, my exact situation. And your post there highlighted many relevant things but.....are the ingredients you mentioned optional (raisins, bananas, lemon juice)?
Was hoping that the guy would get a recipe with instructions in the end


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## Deezil (Oct 25, 2012)

They're optional, in a sense... They'd definitely bring benefits to the wine

raisins bring some grape compounds, some body/mouthfeel
bananas help bring some mouthfeel
lemon juice brings some acidity

I kind of hashed together a recipe in the middle of the first page, but upon a second glance, it'd make more than a gallon

What parts are you still not sure on?


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## thirrsty (Oct 25, 2012)

Hmm well...My first batch of tryout wine is 6 days old now and I'm hesitating to try it because of the oxygen exposure thing being bad after primary fermentation (Read around but not sure about the oxygen part as the articles/recipes I have read have different approaches to it.)
And not sure about trying it also because.....this might actually turn out to be good or alot better in a few days.

Where I would like clarification is:

- Is it true that primary fermentation is about 3-5 days? and there should absolutely be no oxygen exposure after it?

- Some people say they stir their wine daily {---- this is contradicts

- Alot of easy recipes that involve only sugar, yeast and juice only mix them together and store.....will baker's yeast survive long on only sugar? or long enough to produce good results?


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## Deezil (Oct 25, 2012)

thirrsty said:


> Hmm well...My first batch of tryout wine is 6 days old now and I'm hesitating to try it because of the oxygen exposure thing being bad after primary fermentation (Read around but not sure about the oxygen part as the articles/recipes I have read have different approaches to it.)
> And not sure about trying it also because.....this might actually turn out to be good or alot better in a few days.
> 
> Where I would like clarification is:
> ...



1 - Primary fermentation has to do a lot with question #3 + temperature.. Can be 3-5 days, can be up to about 2 weeks.. Oxygen exposure becomes the wines downfall after all/most of the co2 has been dissipated - this usually takes a few/6-8 months on its own

2 - Stirring during fermentation keeps any solids wet - so they dont mold - and helps stir any yeast that get buried in sediment, back into suspension.. Stir in the beginning, during fermentation; dont stir when the wine is clearing/aging

3 - Yeast, like any living thing, "can" live on 1 food source, but does "better" with more sources - these are the primary reasons i listed raisins, bananas, etc - they contain small amounts of nutrients that the yeast will use up, as well as contributing to the overall wine.. Raisins, which were once grapes, contain more nutrients that the yeast will need, than if the raisins werent included. There's the potential for the yeast to struggle without the right nutrients, and that can result in off smells/tastes - more common among these is H2S / rotten egg smell.

I wouldnt be scared to try your 6-day old batch.. I'd be prepared for some "green"/tart flavors, maybe some yeasty notes from the yeast still in suspension, and a very-forward alcohol appearance that will fade into the back over time


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## spaniel (Oct 25, 2012)

thirrsty said:


> Thanks deezil, my exact situation. And your post there highlighted many relevant things but.....are the ingredients you mentioned optional (raisins, bananas, lemon juice)?
> Was hoping that the guy would get a recipe with instructions in the end



Ah. That clears it up.

If you are desperate enough, you can basically ferment any juice with bread yeast and some extra sugar. It may not be that good, but it is drinkable. I used to typically have a couple gallon jugs going in my dorm room during college.


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## thirrsty (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks alot for the clarification. I was going to try the wine but.....if the yeast is still alive, won't it become a parasite but this time in the stomach? 
How do I know that those bastards are dead? Boiling the wine doesn't sound like a good idea...


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## Deezil (Oct 26, 2012)

Yeast wont hurt you... They're in wine, beer, breads..


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## spaniel (Oct 27, 2012)

thirrsty said:


> Thanks alot for the clarification. I was going to try the wine but.....if the yeast is still alive, won't it become a parasite but this time in the stomach?
> How do I know that those bastards are dead? Boiling the wine doesn't sound like a good idea...



You consume live microbes all the time. As stated, live yeast is in a lot of things. 

Your gut is full of bacteria which help you with digestion.


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## thirrsty (Oct 27, 2012)

Finally tried the now 7 day wine, and sad to report that I might have added alot more sugar....
It had a sting to it though, the smell was ok but couldn't make out the taste as it was too thick from the sugar although its color did get clearer.
Don't know if it was the juice too or the hot weather (used a natural grape juice with no preservatives but reads keep refrigerated after opening).


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## cohenhouse77 (Oct 27, 2012)

I can't imagine trying wine after seven days expecting it to taste good or for the flavors to come forward. Even skeeter pee takes some time for flavors to come in front of alcohol. 

The biggest thing I have learned since I started is that no matter what I am making, I have to be patient and prepared to leave it alone for as long as it takes. 7 day wine is store bought in bottles that take you a week to crack open.


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## keena (Oct 27, 2012)

If you don't mind me asking, what country do you live in where it's illegal? 

Also yeast in the stomach is not a problem, the flavor is what's scary. You have many things here that are goin to be off at this point in time. 
1. Your using bakers yeast which will give a little but off flavor and probly a bread taste at an early stage while yeast is still floating all over.
2. Its lacking some ingredients that aren't needed but help give it that wine feel
3. It's early right now and all wine taste a little weird in early stages.

If you try it just remember it can get alot better with age. So dont dump it because it don't taste right if you try it.


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## Jarocal (Oct 27, 2012)

If you read his situation in the first post long term aging is not likely. He's looking for something fast and easy like a jailhouse hooch. A science lab outlet would probably be able to sell him a hydrometer as all it does is measure sg in a liquid. In his situation the easiest thing to do would be to buy a half gallon or gallon bottle of room temperature grape juice, dissolve a cup or two of sugar in it, and dump in half a packet of bakers yeast. Screw the cap back on and shake it up really well. Slowly take the cap of to prevent it from foaming over and rubber band a latex glove over the opening. Hide/store it in dark place for about 3 weeks then carefully siphon or pour it into another clean bottle. Make sure to rinse out the yeast from the fermenting bottle before just tossing the bottle(no evidence). Will it be a world class wine? No. Will it give him and his buddies a buzz? Yes.


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## spaniel (Oct 27, 2012)

Jarocal said:


> If you read his situation in the first post long term aging is not likely. He's looking for something fast and easy like a jailhouse hooch. A science lab outlet would probably be able to sell him a hydrometer as all it does is measure sg in a liquid. In his situation the easiest thing to do would be to buy a half gallon or gallon bottle of room temperature grape juice, dissolve a cup or two of sugar in it, and dump in half a packet of bakers yeast. Screw the cap back on and shake it up really well. Slowly take the cap of to prevent it from foaming over and rubber band a latex glove over the opening. Hide/store it in dark place for about 3 weeks then carefully siphon or pour it into another clean bottle. Make sure to rinse out the yeast from the fermenting bottle before just tossing the bottle(no evidence). Will it be a world class wine? No. Will it give him and his buddies a buzz? Yes.



This is about as complex as you need to get with it, given the situation.

It is important to get juice with no preservatives. If they are added, it is likely potassium sorbate. This will make it difficult, but not impossible, to ferment. Back in the day the only cider I had access to had sorbate added. I got a gallon to ferment, adding 2 packets of bread yeast.


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## BernardSmith (Oct 27, 2012)

*more sugar added before fermenting will not add sweetness unless...*



thirrsty said:


> Finally tried the now 7 day wine, and sad to report that I might have added alot more sugar....
> It had a sting to it though, the smell was ok but couldn't make out the taste as it was too thick from the sugar although its color did get clearer.
> Don't know if it was the juice too or the hot weather (used a natural grape juice with no preservatives but reads keep refrigerated after opening).



Not sure I understand the problem you mention. If you used a yeast that could not ferment out all the sugars in the wine then the wine would be sweet but not very alcoholic. If the yeast COULD ferment all the sugar (not sure that bread yeast will survive in a liquid with 7 or 8 percent alcohol) and did, then the wine would have more alcohol but not taste sweet. The way to sweeten a wine that the yeast has converted all the sugars to alcohol is to either to prevent them from converting added sugar to alcohol (done by stabilizing the wine - by adding potassium meta-bisulphite and potassium sorbate) or by adding sugars that are not fermentable but which taste sweet. Artificial sweeteners won't ferment (I have no idea how they taste in wine) and sugars from plants like stevia which I understand don't contain sucrose, fructose or dextrose won't ferment either.
That said, if there are sugars in your wine that have not fermented (you say the wine was "thick" because of the added sugar) then it should taste very sweet... but I wonder if the "thickness" was flocculating yeasts (flocculation is where microscopic particles that were in suspension in liquid come together and form tiny flakes that are visible) and fruit particles which need time to settle as lees in the bottom of the container you are using.


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## Jarocal (Oct 28, 2012)

Bernard the reason he was probably saying "thick" with sugar would be a combination of suspended particles and the fact that even bakers yeast (good to 9-10%) would not have time to process the sugar. Depending on his geographical location and insividual situation he may be better building a "cold box" a couple feet underground to maintain a more consistant temp for the fermentation to occur at.


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## thirrsty (Oct 29, 2012)

Thanks Jarocal, you and Deezil are the only ones that understand my situation.

So Know I have left half of that bottle just to see the end of the experiment.

What I'm planning on doing for my new batch is:

Ingredients:

- Grape juice or buy grapes and sqeeze the juice out of them
- Baker's instant yeast ofcourse
- Sugar
- Maybe a small piece of banana as Deezil mentioned

How I will process them:

- Boil water with little sugar in it to about 100F and add the yeast and wait for it to foam.
- Add the yeast (foam) to the grape juice, add the sugar and shake it up.

The container will be a large plastic pepsi bottle my only last concern is the hot weather will the juice spoil at a temperature of 95F average?


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## Deezil (Oct 29, 2012)

It wont spoil, no but it will probably ferment very vigorously (read: lots of activity/foam) and probably do what its gonna do for you in a hurry... Keep it in the coolest place you can, out of direct sunlight

Might consider adding the bulk of your sugar to the grape juice, starting your yeast & adding some of your juice to the yeast bit by bit - this acclimates the yeast to the conditions in the grape juice & gets them used to the idea of what they've got in store..

Once your yeast is basically the same color as your must, its pretty safe to pitch the yeast+juice into the rest of the batch


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## Jarocal (Oct 30, 2012)

Your welcome. I seriously doubt you will be able to fashion a hydrometer. Your best bet will be to find established juice recipes that work on sites such as this one and adjust the materials to fit the size container your working with. There are a few other things you can do such as adding some chopped raisens to boost tannin levels in an juice that may need it (remember to decrease sugar amount to compensate for the sugars in the raisens). You could also vary your purchases and branch out a little

4 lbs dates
1 lb sugar
1 quart of black tea steeped strongly
Juice of two lemons

Boil chopped dates in 1 gal water for 30-45 minutes stir in sugar till dissolved. Remove from heat reserving one quart to make yeast starter. Add tea/lemon juice and chill to 70*F. When the reserved quart cools to 105* stir in packet of yeast and let sit according to Packet directions. Pitch starter into the must and follow the directions like in the other recipe for airlock.


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## Tom_S (Oct 31, 2012)

On another wine making forum there was someone who was in the same situation as thirrsty. They lived in Saudi Arabia where alcohol is illegal, and wanted to know if bread yeast could make wine. 

Bread yeast can be used, but as others have pointed out, it won't taste as good as regular wine yeast. When I started making wine, I used bread yeast because I didn't know any better, and while it made a drinkable wine it just didn't taste that great. It had an off flavor. 

I would say if at all possible, order a few packets of wine yeast and make some starters, then keep these starters in the fridge. I don't know how long they'd last that way, but if it is incredibly hard to get wine yeast where you are, then maybe keeping some starters would help. It might also be a good idea to get hold of some yeast nutrient to keep the cultures going. 

Or on the other hand, when racking from primary to secondary, keep all the lees and put that in the fridge. Then when you want to make a new batch of wine, just add some of the lees to the juice. I'm sure there would be some live yeast left in that which could take off.

This obviously isn't the best case scenario, but it might work in places where wine yeast is scarce.


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