# Cellar idea



## Broge5 (Sep 27, 2013)

Needing ideas for room conversion. 

I've been trying to think of the most economical way to turn a study in my home into a wine room to keep around 62-65 degrees so my wife and I can have dinner occasionally without freezing. I believe that what i really need to do is to remove all the interior sheet rock, add 2x2's to creat a 6in wall, put up a vapor barrier, insulate, and re-cover with Sheetrock. I'm just looking for an easier and less costly way. 

I realize I need to insulate at least the interior walls to the home and my problem is the vapor barrier. I certainly do not want mold. One idea I have instead of removing all the interior sheet rock of the room and insulating the walls is to cut holes and blow in cellulose insulation. This leaves me without a vapor barrier however. What if I put a vapor barrier on the exterior of the walls and then sandwiched another layer of sheet rock over it? This seems that it may allow me to put vapor barrier on the correct side of the insulation which is blown in without having to tear down all of the walls from the inside.

Just wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on this. I've added a rough picture to explain, but I'm not sure how clear I am. 

This may not even save much over the other method.

I'm looking at a mini split ac as well.


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 27, 2013)

Heres my take.
For years and years people used black roofing felt as a vapor barrier.
It didnt work. But was a good idea of sorts..it helped very little.
It did not breath, which means it condensed its heat and cold and made moisture, and then was trapped because ti could not get any air.
And if it got moisture in somehow, it wouldnt dry out due to lack of movable air.
Then comes house wrap...excellent product..if you hold it up to the sun you will see thousands of very tiny pin holes..which lets it breath.
By putting a vapor barrier between two layers of sheet rock will accomplish nothing.
Now if you tear out are fur out a wall, add house wrap and sheet rock its doing something.
If you really want to do it right....Buy a small walk in cooler are a reach in cooler to keep you wine in. Most all come with compressor, etc...and they really are not expensive if you shop around...
If you have a used restaruant supply store, you can buy them real cheap.


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## Kraffty (Sep 27, 2013)

I was just reading today about rigid foam sheeting made to go into existing 2x4 walls with r19 value. Might look into that instead of making the walls thicker.
Mike


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## Broge5 (Sep 27, 2013)

Also, I just read about Sheetrock primer paint with vapor barrier by Benjamin Moore. My walls are textured and painted though. 

Maybe I could paint the outsides (warm side) of the walls of the wine room? This would be my garage wall and two walls to the interior living space side in my home. Wonder if this would be good to act as vapor barrier? Then blow insulation in?


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## Broge5 (Sep 27, 2013)

I'll check into the walkin cooler and rigid foam. Thanks


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## cedarswamp (Sep 27, 2013)

Look Into Spray Polyurathane Foam Insulation.


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## FTC Wines (Sep 28, 2013)

Broge5, I'm in the process of "building" a 10X14 wine room. I'm in SW Florida, & a retired Fl builder. I did not feel it was necessary to add a vapor barrier or additional insulation. My room also backs up to the garage, R-13 insulation, also has one outside wall with one window, wall has R-3 insulation(it's Fl.) I did add one inch of foam to cover the window. The 6400 btu window AC unit I added a month ago is keeping the room at 68*, my choice. No signs of mold, room runs at 46% relative humidity, too low for my corks, but it is what it is. The AC loss thru the 2 adjoining inside house walls doesn't bother me because we only use heat 2 months a year, & not 24/7. Putting a wood/laminate floor in now. Once my wine racks are set up I'll probably lower the temp to 65* ish. I feel lower that that will be too cold for me to work in the winery. I'll post pics once the racks are up. Roy


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## MrKevin (Sep 28, 2013)

Broge5
My only advise here is, do not install 2 vapor barriers on the same wall. This will trap moisture and cause mold and rot. If you install a second vapor barrier on a wall make sure the first has been sliced to allow moisture to escape. I have been in the building construction industry since 77' and have seem my share of mold when this procedure is neglected. 

Kevin


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## Broge5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Holy cow. I looked at the polyurethane foam. It looks great. Great insulation and vapor barrier all in one, especially for the closed cell. But my walls are about 12 foot wide and 12 foot high. That's over $600 a wall from what I've seen. Yikes!

Maybe it would be cheaper just to tear down the sheet rock insulate. Or, since I'm really looking at the kind of temperatures that Roy is (65), maybe I can just below cellulose in, and not worry too much about the vapor barrier.

Dallas gets very hot in the summer, but isn't normally too terribly humid. Plus my home AC unit also reduces the humidity that would be coming from inside the house toward the seller room.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 16, 2013)

You may want to take a look at this link:
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/info-sheet-310-vapor-control-layer-recommendations?topic=resources/vapor_barrier_code_changes

It is not clear that you need a very good vapor barrier in this application. You may just want to go with paint that is a modest vapor barrier:

http://duspec.com/DuSpec2/document/DocumentDisplayController.htm?documentId=934445

B-I-N shellac is another possibility.


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## Scott (Oct 16, 2013)

Shouldn't need a vapor barrier on the interior walls just the exterior. Good insulation in all walls will make a world of difference to keep the wine room at a different temp.


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## Broge5 (Oct 17, 2013)

Scott, that's kinda the direction I'm leaning. Thinking about blowing cellulose in the interior walls. 

Any ideas on what to do with my exterior walls? One is to outside and the other to the garage. The is already R13 in there and likely a thermoply vapor barrier just outside the insulation?

If I pull the Sheetrock off these two walls, should I also remove the insulation to put a plastic vapor barrier next to the thermoply? Or can I put it on top of the insulation? 

Or any other ideas?


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## Scott (Oct 18, 2013)

Your exterior walls should already have the barrier like you said, I wouldn't add any barrier to the inside as to trap moisture in the wall. And not tearing off the rock will save time and money to use on the interior walls. 
Not sure of the cost of blowing in the walls or using fiberglass on the interior walls, the fiberglass will also make a good sound deadining wall as well R value. Good luck


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## JohnT (Oct 18, 2013)

Some really goo points made here. To sum it up, ask yourself.. Would it be better to cool just the storage racks or an entire room. If you set your sights on cooling just the racks (AKA build a big wine cooler) it would be cheaper on energy and the room would never be too cold to have dinner!


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## kevinlfifer (Oct 18, 2013)

Put some glass french doors in the closet wall, use that area for cooled storage. You can stay warm and the wine can be on display thru the doors and kept cool with a small A/C unit.

Just sayin.


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## Broge5 (Oct 18, 2013)

Yes. A lot of good points made, and I appreciate them all. I can't deny that it does make a little bit more sense to portion off the room for a cooled area. It would be more cost-effective, and more comfortable in the room to have dinner etc. on the other hand, I do have plenty of racks to go around the room. Enough for about 2000 bottles. And as for the visual appeal of the room, cooling the entire room will definitely give greater flexibility. And I'm thinking that if kept at 65° it would also be somewhat enjoyable to be in. 

Though my main goal is to keep the wine at a good temperature, whether I'm going to spend a little or a lot, getting my wife on board is going to require it to be visually appealing.

Decisions decisions.


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