# 1st vinters harvest black currant



## Paulc (Feb 4, 2011)

I picked up a 96oz can of the above to do my first fruit wine. I was going to follow the recipe for 3 gal of wine. I would like to have some black currant flavor and smell to the finished wine. 

Does anyone have any recommendations? I thought I might hold back 1/4 cup of the juice and put it in the freezer until after the ferment is done...is that a good or bad idea. How else can I get currant aroma and flavor, just a hint, in the finished wine?

Also, I wondered about maybe adding raisins (1 lb?) to get some more body in the wine...any thoughts on that idea?

TIA, paulc


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## Tom (Feb 4, 2011)

raisins would help. For adding more aroma I would save 1-2 cups. Add that after the wine is stabilized


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## Wade E (Feb 4, 2011)

If you use the 3 gallon recipe youll have plenty of favor left. IMO you dont need any raisons.


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## deboard (Feb 4, 2011)

I made this one as well, it turned out very good. I wanted to backsweeten to semi-sweet with an f-pac, but I couldn't find any straight black currant juice. BUT..I did find a blueberry-black currant by Wyland, which tasted great. I put half the bottle in a saucepan with 1 cup of sugar and boiled it down to a syrup. I think I used about 1 1/4 cups of it to backsweeten, but if you like it sweeter you could use more.

I did strain the juice through a coffee filter before putting it in the saucepan, but the f-pac did add a couple of rackings. It was worth it though.


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## Paulc (Feb 5, 2011)

I wanted to get some practice using the titration type acid kit that I picked up this week. What is the recommended acid level for the black currant? thanks, paulc


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## Wade E (Feb 5, 2011)

It will most likely be around .65 - 75 on this or possibly even a little bit higher but thats fine. Not all wines will or should fall in the .55 - .70 range or they would be flabby.


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## Paulc (Feb 11, 2011)

*slow start...?*

So I started my black currant this week and it seems to be starting pretty slow compared to my wine kits. I opened and mixed everything but the yeast on Wed. evening after work. I stirred it a good bit to help it gas out and mixed. Yesterday morning I pitched one packet of lalvin 212 yeast. So far there is not any movement in the airlock but there is some fizzing going on when I open the lid. My concern is I will be gone all weekend and will not be able to check on it after late this afternoon until late on Sunday. Would it be a bad idea to add a second dose of yeast to be sure it gets established? I thought I might get a small batch of starter going today and then add it to the must as I am walking out the door. Or should I just leave it be? Thanks, paulc


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## Midwest Vintner (Feb 11, 2011)

leave it be. black currant is slower, somewhat like blueberry. IMO, i go 3 gal, no raisens and leave all the juice there as then you have plenty of flavor.


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## Paulc (Feb 11, 2011)

thanks for the info...I will leave it be. And yeah, I followed yours and Wade's advice and followed the 3 gal as on the can. But I added a small handfull of oak. I couldn't help it. Hope it does not turn out to be a mistake. Paulc


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## docanddeb (Mar 13, 2011)

I've made 2 batches of that wine now... great stuff. I pretty much follow the directions on the label... comes out great! A little sweetening at the end will bring the fruit flavor out! Oak would be nice!

Debbie


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## Wade E (Mar 13, 2011)

It was one of my favs, now I have 18 bushes in my yard.


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## Paulc (Apr 16, 2011)

*Pot Sorb question*

Well, I think my black currant is about ready to go into bottles...I guess. I have tasted it and it is a good bit sweeter than I had expected/hoped but it has not been bubbling since early March. I checked the SG on 3-11 and it was 1.015. I let it continue to bubble, very slowly, until 3-22 but did not check SG. I had assumed it would be down darn close to 1.00 at that point but when I taste it it is still pretty sweet. But anyway, I am afraid of playing with it too much and screwing it up as I currently have 6 gal of a brunello monster that has gone very much not like it had been planned(its a long story). 

So anyway, my question is, this black currant, 3 gallons, was racked on 3-22 and 3 campden tablets (crushed) were added. I had to top it off with about 6oz of a Nero D'Avola wine from the store cause that is what I had open. So there is now some yeast collected on the bottom of the carboy but not a lot. I was hoping to bottle late in May. But I have not added pot sorb yet...should I rack again and then add the pot sorb or can I just add the sorbate, let everything sit like it is till late May and then bottle?

TIA, paulc


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## docanddeb (Apr 16, 2011)

You have a few more rackings to do, probably. I has some settling to do. I would rack... then add sorbate... then let it sit some more.

What is SG now?

Debbie


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## Paulc (Apr 16, 2011)

I just checked the SG and it is reading 1.014...not sure how that is possible seeing as it was 1.015 or so about 4 weeks ago. It seems this batch is not 
going to conform to my schedule. I have already added campden tablets. Am I stuck with a sweet wine? Splash rack it and let it/hope it will restart? 

It seems I need a little help please! TIA, paulc


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## docanddeb (Apr 16, 2011)

I think I missed what your original SG was....

Debbie


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## Wade E (Apr 16, 2011)

What temp is this at right now, what was the starting gravity and what yeast did you use?


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## Paulc (Apr 16, 2011)

wine was started on 2-9-2011. I followed the 3 gal recipe on can, added 1/4 tsp grape tannin powder and small handful of heavy toast american oak at beginning. Starting SG was 1.08 and I used Lalvin RC 212. SG is now 1.014.

TIA, paulc


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## Paulc (Apr 16, 2011)

Temp is 70-72 degrees.


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## Wade E (Apr 16, 2011)

Dont know why it stopped so early then, Ive never had that problem except with the W.E. raspberry port kit and veryone has that problem with that kit. That wine is stillm very young to be bottling!!!!!! Patience my friend!


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## Paulc (Apr 16, 2011)

So do I rack it? Or leave it sit? Add a little heat? Or just leave it alone?


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## Wade E (Apr 16, 2011)

Id probably bring it up to 75* and give it a good stir and see it you cant get that sg to drop down just a little more, Maybe a pinch of energizer just to see if it does anything. I do mean just a pinch though!


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## Paulc (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks Wade, I will give it a try.


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## BobF (Apr 16, 2011)

Wade E said:


> It was one of my favs, now I have 18 bushes in my yard.


 
Wade - I'm thinking of planting some of these.

Where did you get them?
Which cultivar(s) did you plant?
What is your yield like?
What's your recipe?


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## Wade E (Apr 16, 2011)

Last year was my first year with them. I retrieved them from Grapeman here but I grabbed them all as he was getting rid of them. They are the Consort and Titania. Some of these plants are very small as they were basically just babies that had sprung from buds on off shoots. Even though it was the first year here after major transplant with only about maybe 8 bushes big enough to grow anything I still retrieved enough for a 3 gallon batch. I like to use about 8 lbs per gallon.


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## BobF (Apr 17, 2011)

Thanx Wade. Do you think 4qts per -mature- plant (5#) is reasonable for planning? I guess 2 plants per gallon would be a safer estimate ...

24 plants for a 6g batch sounds like a lot of plants!


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## docanddeb (Apr 17, 2011)

Do they spread like raspberries do?

Debbie


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## Wade E (Apr 17, 2011)

Supposedly with mature plants you are supposed to get about 10lbs per bush. I just went out today and cut off the dead wood. There was a lot of damage from the very heavy snow from the winter. I lost one bush which was a smaller one and many branches on a few others. Other then that they are looking good and have leaves already on them. They needed trimming back anyway.
Deb, you cut off branches with buds on them and plant that so that the bud is under ground and it will take route.


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## docanddeb (Apr 17, 2011)

or ROOT....

elderberry propogates that way too....

They don't multiply on their own then?

Debbie


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## Runningwolf (Apr 17, 2011)

docanddeb said:


> or ROOT....
> 
> elderberry propogates that way too....
> 
> ...



I have to argue that point. We use to pick elderberries along the road and then come home and pluck them. Well low and behold we had a plant pop up in the garden next to the driveway right where we cleaned them. This definitely started from a berry. Well after it got about 12" high I transplanted it out back. That sucker took off like a weed and started sending up shoots everywhere. The next summer I decided it was way to invasive and I gave a local nature park about 8 plants over 3" high and another 6 to friends. This was before I was making wine.


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## Wade E (Apr 17, 2011)

That true also, where there are seeds there is the chance of it growing. Its not the easier way of doing it though!


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## docanddeb (Apr 17, 2011)

I have strawberry plants that seeded themselves in my flower garden... more every year... THEY decided to set up housekeeping from compost!

Debbie


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## Tom (Apr 17, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> I have to argue that point. We use to pick elderberries along the road and then come home and pluck them. Well low and behold we had a plant pop up in the garden next to the driveway right where we cleaned them. This definitely started from a berry. Well after it got about 12" high I transplanted it out back. That sucker took off like a weed and started sending up shoots everywhere. The next summer I decided it was way to invasive and I gave a local nature park about 8 plants over 3" high and another 6 to friends. This was before I was making wine.



FOOL ! ! !


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## Wade E (Apr 17, 2011)

Any plants that birds like the fruit from you stand a good chance to get a spread of sprouts everywhere. The birds dont really like my Currants 1 bit so that is awesome!


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## Runningwolf (Apr 17, 2011)

Tom said:


> FOOL ! ! !



I was expecting that!  I meant to add what Wade did that seed is certainly not way to try and propagate, it was just luck. I have to say if you get one to catch you have a huge patch in no time. It spreads like Sumac.


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## BobF (Apr 18, 2011)

I saved a gallon bag of last year's culls and put them in the freezer. This spring I plowed/disked up a nice place for them, scattered 'em around and disked them in.

I let you know what happens!


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## Paulc (Apr 23, 2011)

So Wade, I followed your advice and on 4-15 added energizer (pinch) and stirred. I also put my wife heating pad for her back on the carboy and put it on low for several hours. Things started bubbling along, very slowly. Checked the SG just now and it is down to 1.010. It started out on the 15th at 1.014. And now it has quit bubbling...

Anyone have any ideas? I had hoped to ferment this dry but it seems I have a long way to go yet. Would anything be gained by racking it? Last time I racked it was on 3-22.

TIA, paulc


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## Wade E (Apr 23, 2011)

Racking it would probably make it not stand a chance. Im guessing this has already been racked which most likely left behind too much viable yeast hence why I ferment to dry in primary. Wine will usually ferment out even when racked but sometimes you end up with this problem when racking and thats why I dont do it until its fermented all the way out! Kep it warm and try adding another pinch of energizer (not nutrient at this point) and stir it up.


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## Paulc (Apr 23, 2011)

It is done. Thanks Wade. Hopefully this will get it going and I can get it below 1.0. 

Your post seemed to suggest that too much energizer might cause its own set of problems (and the nutrient). What would be the effects of having added too much energizer? Or adding nutrient? I guess you want a nutrient deficient wine for best bottling, right? Same with energizer?

Thanks,p


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## Wade E (Apr 23, 2011)

Nutrient left unused will leave a nasty taste, energizer not so much as most will settle out but I still veer on the safe side there.


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## Paulc (Apr 29, 2011)

The carboy seems to be bubbling very very slowly. The SG does not seem to be dropping by any measureable amount. Would there be any value in pitching some new yeast? The SG now is still about 1.010 and not budging.

Thanks, Paulc


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## bob1 (Apr 29, 2011)

Let it bubble


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## Paulc (May 3, 2011)

The SG has not budged a bit since the 23rd of April. This wine has had a heat pad on it, set on medium since then. The wine is warm to the touch. 

Am I really stuck with this stuff being sweet? What would be the problem of adding a new dose of yeast to try and finish this stuff to dry?

I need help please! thanks, paulc


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## BobF (May 3, 2011)

Get some 1118 yeast. Make a starter with a small amount of water, sugar and energizer.

Once it's going good add a small amount of your stuck must, say 10-20% of the volume of your starter. Let it get going good again and repeat.

Do this until you have a pint or so, maybe a quart going really, really good.

Then add it to your stuck must.


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## Paulc (May 3, 2011)

thanks Bob! Maybe after this I will give up and just go with a sweet wine...


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## Wade E (May 3, 2011)

Do you have any other wines fermenting as dumping this batch on a yeast slurry would work much better then the starter yeast.


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## BobF (May 3, 2011)

If this must was started at a higher SG than the original yeast could ferment, then an 1118 starter will do the trick - until 18% is reached.

If there is something about the must that the yeast didn't like, then slowly acclimating the new yeast, whether slurry or a starter, will have the best chance of success.

So, IMO if you use a slurry or a new starter, slowly add this must to it at first ...


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## Midwest Vintner (May 4, 2011)

with the 1118, i've seen it go from just dropping some on top of the must at ~1.020 or so. IMO, it should go from just a starter. 1116 works if you got it also. 

blueberry, black currant and cranberry have all stuck on me once a piece. nothing else has ever stopped on me. With the cranberry, I think it was too cold for the yeast I was using (some lalvin variety non-1116/1118) and the blueberry and currant that stopped on me was along time ago. I think we were only using red star then. Now we use a variety for different wines.


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## Paulc (May 9, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the help so far. I have some 1116 yeast on the way, ought to be here this week some time. Should I rack this wine off the yeast cake it is sitting on in case it is yeast stress that is causing this ferment to stop? Or should I leave the bulk of the wine undisturbed and just remove enough from the carboy to get the starter going? And then add it back to the carboy?

Thanks, paul


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## Wade E (May 9, 2011)

If you are making another yeast starter you should probably get it off of this heavy sediment.


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## docanddeb (May 9, 2011)

You won't be able to make a starter simply by taking some of the non-finished wine and adding yeast to it. You'll need to take some juice, or just sugar water, nutrient... warm it a bit... get the yeast happy, add just a bit of the non-finished wine at a time, until you get a large amount roaring... THEN add it back to the wine. It's a bit of a process and don't rush it too fast... let it get used to the high alcohol levels so it will finish off the ferment for you... Good Luck!

Debbie


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## Paulc (May 14, 2011)

*It didn't work:-(*

I dissolved 1 cup of sugar in about 1 liter of warmish water and pitched the yeast and it got going nicely. So using my turkey baster(sp?) wine thief I added about 5 oz of the stuck black currant. I let is sit for about 10 minutes and it was bubbling nicely. So I added another 5 oz or so of stuck wine and waited another 10 minutes. I kept this process up for about an hour and it seemed to be going okay. So I jumped the volumn up to 3 liters, racked the rest of the wine off the spent yeast and onto the starter I had in a primary. I rinsed out the carboy and racked all back into carboy and nothing happened. I took about 2 hrs to complete this whole process, did work on Thursday evening the 5th. At first it looked like there was some positive pressure building in the carboy but then the kmeta in the lock leveled out.

Not sure what to do now...any thoughts? I can repeat process and just take longer to baby the starter more. I thought maybe I could go for more of a black currant port and instead of 1 cup of sugar add 3lbs based on a port recipe I have. Or I can just leave it sit and blend it with other stuff this fall? Or just have a sweet black currant wine that I don't want....

Help please Paulc


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## SarahRides (May 14, 2011)

I used one of those cans and made a 5 gallon batch. I now wish I had done the 3 gallon because stretching it to the 5 gallon made it a little weak (more like a Rose). I'm sure that as a 3 gallon batch it will be perfect. I'm hoping that the aging will help expose more flavor.


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## Midwest Vintner (May 15, 2011)

SarahRides said:


> I used one of those cans and made a 5 gallon batch. I now wish I had done the 3 gallon because stretching it to the 5 gallon made it a little weak (more like a Rose). I'm sure that as a 3 gallon batch it will be perfect. I'm hoping that the aging will help expose more flavor.



we do it in 3's because we blend with it and want it to be stronger. we typically bottle a few of just black currant and it does get so much better with age. it is one that needs a few years to really get it's potential.


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## docanddeb (May 15, 2011)

My second batch wasn't as good as the first, for some reason. Maybe aging will bring it along ok, though.

Debbie


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## Paulc (Jun 1, 2011)

*it finally started*

In the end I added a packet of 1116 directly to the top of the carboy along with a pinch of sugar and energizer. Not much happened so then I added a small pinch of nutrient. After about 36hrs the yeast took off and it has been making a ton of tiny buddles ever since. I won't disturb it until the air lock goes still again. Next time I may skip trying to make a starter. paulc


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## Wade E (Jun 1, 2011)

Are you heating up the water too much and killing the yeast making the starter???


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## Paulc (Jun 1, 2011)

The starter was going fine. My best guess is I probably rushed adding it back to the stuck wine. My last addition of stuck wine to the starter basically doubled the volume of starter (after several smaller additions of stuck wine) and I would guess I did not wait long enough for that to begin bubbling strong before I added it to the over 2.5 gal of stuck wine and so it was just too much for the starter. But I am probably only 6 months into my "career" as a wine maker so what do I know...? But it is going well now so hopefully it is a case of all's well that ends well. paulc


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## docanddeb (Jun 1, 2011)

The more you make, the more you learn!! Keep on keepin' on!!

Ferment anything that doesn't run away and isn't poisonous!!!

Debbie


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## Midwest Vintner (Jun 2, 2011)

it depends on the type of yeast used. I've never had a stuck lalvin 1116/1118. I use them on some wines and keep them handy for stuck batches. I have only made a starter a few times, ever after 100+ batches. IIRC, the lalvin brand is just supposed to be re-hydrated.


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