# Who uses Finings or Filters fresh grape wine?



## LoveTheWine (May 14, 2016)

The last few years we started making wine from fresh grapes, now exclusively home grown grapes.


I leave the wine in bulk for a year, racking 3-4 times. Today is 3rd racking day and I am curious who here would add finings at this stage?
Who would polish with a filter just before bottling?
Who would bottle without any fining or filtering?


The wine is really clear but the flashlight trick shows the slightest bit of sediment left in it.


The odd time I use my mini-jet filter to polish at bottling time but prefer not too if at all possible.


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## TonyR (May 14, 2016)

after racking several times and ageing about 1 year I filter my red wine with the coarse filter pads with my mini jet then bottle, when i do white i filter with the coarse then a week or so later will filter again with the medium filter and bottle. That how I do it


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## ibglowin (May 14, 2016)

No fining but I do filter before bottling


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## Boatboy24 (May 14, 2016)

I filter whites, but not reds. No finings.


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## Johny99 (May 14, 2016)

I do a bentonite fining on my Riesling and Sauvignon blanc. I've had protein stability problems. I don't filter, not by policy but by budget. 

I don't fine or filter my reds, but I like finding sediment at the bottom of a good bottle of wine. My reds go 2 years in the barrel with a 3-6 month settle after racking before bottling.


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## stickman (May 14, 2016)

Bentonite fining for my Riesling, and I filter both reds and whites before bottling.


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## FTC Wines (May 15, 2016)

We never do anything to our Reds but age & rack. However we are thinking about starting to filter. Many of our reds are leaving sediment in the bottle. Bottled perfectly clear, but after 1-2 years on their side they have a film in the bottle. Doesn't bother us, BUT not pretty as gifts. Roy


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## heatherd (May 15, 2016)

I do not filter or fine my fresh grapes.


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## LoveTheWine (May 16, 2016)

Well... I decided No finings for this years wine (red) and probably no filtering. We will see.


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## Wiz (May 16, 2016)

I use bentonite in my reds and whites but filter only the whites.


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## LoveTheWine (May 16, 2016)

For those that use Bentonite: Do you use it before fermentation or after?


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## Johny99 (May 17, 2016)

After, a couple of months before bottling.


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## Wiz (May 17, 2016)

I add bentonite after the fermentation is complete and after degassing.


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## GreginND (May 17, 2016)

Wiz said:


> I use bentonite in my reds and whites but filter only the whites.



Is there a particular reason you are using bentonite - especially on your reds? It is used to remove proteins that might cause hazing in white wines. Do you do a heat stabilization test to find out how much you need to add? Too much bentonite can strip aromas and flavors.


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## Ignoble Grape (Dec 18, 2019)

Really helpful thread - trying to decide to fine/filter my 2018 Merlot, currently 18 months in carboy. I actually like the way it tastes, don't think it's particularly hazy, and am concerned about stripping out aromas/flavors.


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## jburtner (Dec 18, 2019)

I fine and filter (1 micron) whites (mostly kits). Sometimes I'll filter a red made from frozen must (5 micron). I don't fine reds.

I have a viognier and white merlot clearing right now. I didn't use bentonite and I did use kieselsol / chitosan. I'm researching a 0.5 micron filter for sterile filtering / polishing.

Cheers!
johann


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## Ignoble Grape (Dec 18, 2019)

jburtner said:


> I fine and filter (1 micron) whites (mostly kits). Sometimes I'll filter a red made from frozen must (5 micron). I don't fine reds.
> 
> I have a viognier and white merlot clearing right now. I didn't use bentonite and I did use kieselsol / chitosan. I'm researching a 0.5 micron filter for sterile filtering / polishing.
> 
> ...


Yup. I get going through the process for whites, and have done so many times for my fruit wines that throw off major haze, but not entirely sure I need it for this red. It's my first red from grapes, and I'm not great at assessing clarity in red wines.


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## Johnd (Dec 18, 2019)

Ignoble Grape said:


> Yup. I get going through the process for whites, and have done so many times for my fruit wines that throw off major haze, but not entirely sure I need it for this red. It's my first red from grapes, and I'm not great at assessing clarity in red wines.



It's hard to say definitively without physically looking at the wine, but my gut says that after 18 months in a carboy, your wine should be clear if you've done a good job with racking off of the sediment. One way to look at it very critically is to pour a little red wine into a wine glass, take it outside on a clear, sunny day, tilt the glass sideways and look up through it at the sky. You'll get a really good indication of its clarity that way.


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## Ignoble Grape (Dec 18, 2019)

Johnd said:


> It's hard to say definitively without physically looking at the wine, but my gut says that after 18 months in a carboy, your wine should be clear if you've done a good job with racking off of the sediment. One way to look at it very critically is to pour a little red wine into a wine glass, take it outside on a clear, sunny day, tilt the glass sideways and look up through it at the sky. You'll get a really good indication of its clarity that way.


This is a great idea!! Just need some sun... ️


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## Johnd (Dec 18, 2019)

Ignoble Grape said:


> This is a great idea!! Just need some sun... ️



OK, maybe it doesn't have to be a perfectly sunny day, I'm sure you could make due with a bright day or just a bright light, but you get the point, just something to really allow you to see through the shallow pool of wine...


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## cmason1957 (Dec 18, 2019)

I always wonder why people think filtering a wine is going to strip out flavors/aromas? Oh sure, maybe right after you filter there is a noticeable difference in taste, but after 24-48 hours that goes away. Flavor molecules are so much smaller than even the tightest of sterile filters (0.2 micron). Maybe it is an oxidation thing people fear and that might be reasonable, add sulfites before you filter.

I refer you to this article from someone far smarter than myself (Tim Vandergrift) http://www.timvandergrift.com/?p=225


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## mainshipfred (Dec 18, 2019)

jburtner said:


> I fine and filter (1 micron) whites (mostly kits). Sometimes I'll filter a red made from frozen must (5 micron). I don't fine reds.
> 
> I have a viognier and white merlot clearing right now. I didn't use bentonite and I did use kieselsol / chitosan. I'm researching a 0.5 micron filter for sterile filtering / polishing.
> 
> ...





Ignoble Grape said:


> This is a great idea!! Just need some sun... ️



Johann, 0.5 using a plate filter (Mini Jet or the like) is not really considered sterile so I assume you are referring only to polishing. To go sterile you will need to use a 0.045 absolute cylindrical filter. It has always been my understanding the only time sterile would be necessary is if you wanted to back sweeten and not use sorbate or to stop fermentation to retain residual sugar.


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## jburtner (Dec 18, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Johann, 0.5 using a plate filter (Mini Jet or the like) is not really considered sterile so I assume you are referring only to polishing. To go sterile you will need to use a 0.045 absolute cylindrical filter. It has always been my understanding the only time sterile would be necessary is if you wanted to back sweeten and not use sorbate or to stop fermentation to retain residual sugar.



Oh - 0.045 microns! That's way tighter than I thought. I'll have to look for that size but I use a whole house filter with the AIO. I've only used sorbate once and that wine is still clearing so I'll have to see how that one works out.

Do folks use a 0.045 micron filter on red wines to stop fermentation or backsweeten?

Thanks,
johann


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## mainshipfred (Dec 18, 2019)

jburtner said:


> Oh - 0.045 microns! That's way tighter than I thought. I'll have to look for that size but I use a whole house filter with the AIO. I've only used sorbate once and that wine is still clearing so I'll have to see how that one works out.
> 
> Do folks use a 0.045 micron filter on red wines to stop fermentation or backsweeten?
> 
> ...



I can't speak for everyone but I can only imagine most people don't sterile filter. Please remember if you want to go sterile the filter media has to be absolute and not nominal.


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## Johnd (Dec 18, 2019)

I did spin the wheel a bit this past spring, using a .45 micron plate filter to filter my strawberry wine before back sweetening. Only have a few bottles left, but no issues so far. Though .45 micron level is enough for sterile filtration, it's just not achievable with plate filters, which is why folks use the absolute cylindrical filter. I knew I was taking a chance, but it was mine to take.......


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## crooked cork (Dec 18, 2019)

I use Sparkloid for fining in all wines and filter as needed. I hate sediments in the bottom or on side of bottles i find it embarrassing, but that's just me. If i was the only one drinking it i would'nt care but i gift a lot of wine to charity's to raise money at benefit's and give it to my customers at my work.


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## cmason1957 (Dec 18, 2019)

jburtner said:


> Oh - 0.045 microns! That's way tighter than I thought. I'll have to look for that size but I use a whole house filter with the AIO. I've only used sorbate once and that wine is still clearing so I'll have to see how that one works out.
> 
> Do folks use a 0.045 micron filter on red wines to stop fermentation or backsweeten?
> 
> ...


I don't believe you will want to purchase a 0.045 micron absolute for this kind of setup. And if you can, you probably won't want to sue to the cost. It goes up astronomically as the size it filters out goes down.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 19, 2019)

Typo Johann, that's .45 not .045.


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## mainshipfred (Dec 19, 2019)

Johnd said:


> I did spin the wheel a bit this past spring, using a .45 micron plate filter to filter my strawberry wine before back sweetening. Only have a few bottles left, but no issues so far. Though .45 micron level is enough for sterile filtration, it's just not achievable with plate filters, which is why folks use the absolute cylindrical filter. I knew I was taking a chance, but it was mine to take.......



John, what filter system do you have? I can't seem to find .45 pads for any of the Buon Vino filters.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 19, 2019)

cmason1957 said:


> I refer you to this article from someone far smarter than myself (Tim Vandergrift) http://www.timvandergrift.com/?p=225


This article is interesting and informative. Point #5, which says to fine before filtering, matches my own experiences. Many moons ago I was part owner of a Buon Vino plate filter, and my first filtering experience was less than stellar. The wine wasn't clear and I went through 3 or 4 packages of coarse filters trying to filter 5 gallons of wine. Live-n-learn ....

I used the filter for a couple of years, then stopped. I compared filtered vs. non-filtered wines and didn't feel the filter was worth the hassle. Since then I only fine.

Kit wines? I use the bentonite pre-fermentation and chitosan/kieselsol post-fermentation. Last year's mead would not clear so purchased Super Kleer (I think that's the name) and it worked like a champ.

For fresh grapes I'm using bentonite post-fermentation. This year I stirred the wines -- not as vigorously as the kit instructions -- and discovered that even moderate stirring expels most of the CO2. Added bentonite and racked 2 weeks later. I'm not seeing any sediment in the carboys, so we'll see what another 3 months brings.

Why do I use bentonite? It promotes clarity and stability while having a low incidence of color and tannin removal.

This article provides a comparison of fining agents:

https://www.awri.com.au/industry_su...ces/frequently_asked_questions/fining_agents/


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## Johnd (Dec 19, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> John, what filter system do you have? I can't seem to find .45 pads for any of the Buon Vino filters.



The "sterile" pads for the super jet are actually .5 microns, my apologies for mis-stating that earlier. The .5's are available lots of places, I think I got mine from EC Kraus. I was able to find the article I read before deciding to give it a shot with the strawberry. Below is a clip from Winemaker Magazine where a reader asked a question about sterile filtering before back sweetening, the answer is in quotes below:

"The short answer to your question is: 0.45 micron nominal filter pads are the industry standard for “sterile” filtration. These pads prevent all yeast and bacteria from getting through. So, if you want to be as certain as possible, it’s best to filter with a 0.45 micron nominal pad. This will ensure that you take out the maximum amount of unwanted material. The 0.5 micron filter sheet is a little bit “looser” than the 0.45 micron sheet and would most likely allow some microbes to pass through. If I was a winery with 50,000 gallons of 1% RS (residual sugar) Chardonnay that I wanted to bottle and put into the market, I would certainly make sure to final-filter with the tightest pads possible. Ruining thousands of customers’ opinions about your products due to one little yeast cell is a scary prospect.

However, as you might imagine, I’ve got a longer answer for you and you can choose what option best suits you. You’re a home winemaker with only 65 gallons of the 1% RS Chardonnay, not 50,000 gallons. I should explain a little bit about filter and filtration jargon for those of us that might not be familiar with words like “0.45 micron nominal filter.” Pad filters are stacks of cellulose sheets that get mounted in a stainless steel or metal frame. Wine or juice is forced by a pump or by air pressure through the cellulose pads and depending upon the “tightness” of the cellulose matrix and the back pressure on the system, a varying degree of particles will pass through. When we say “nominal” and list a measurement like “0.45 micron” we are talking about the size of a filter pad. This pad is designed to prevent particles larger than the specified size (e.g. 0.45 micron) to pass through. Not all filters available to home winemakers offer a true 0.45 micron nominal filter pad. Many only go as small as 0.5 micron nominal which is not truly a “sterile” filter. It is very close, but no cigar (as the saying goes). Bacteria, especially, because they are so much smaller than yeast cells, could get through filters with this porosity. Once they’re in, they can start munching on the sugar left in your wine and cause re-fermentation in the bottle. This is exactly what you’re trying to avoid. However – you might be willing to take the risk because in your case, I actually think that the 0.5 micron filter would cut out enough microbial life to render you a relatively stable product. If you are very careful in your sanitation, filtering and bottling processes, I’d say it’s an acceptable risk. Your wine fermented slowly, went through malolactic fermentation and is not fermenting now – so it’s pretty stable (microbially speaking). It’s also a white wine, which means that you probably would be consuming it within a year or two. Most importantly – you love the wine the way it is and don’t want to conduct a re-fermentation to decrease the residual sugar to a more stable level."


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## mainshipfred (Dec 19, 2019)

To date I only backen sweetened 2 wines. One was a peach in 2017 which I have 4 bottles left. The second was a 2019 Chilean Riesling with about 15 bottles still in my cellar. Both were filtered with a .5 and neither show any signs of refermenting. I did add a little sorbate but less then half the recommended amounts and a tad more SO2 then recommended. Until the system fails I think I'll just be content with the .5s.


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