# Whole House Filter failure



## GreginND (Mar 1, 2015)

I have been trying to filter wines using the whole house filter method for a couple of years now. When I have a crystal clear wine I presumed it has worked well as it seemed to shine the wine up. But more often than not I find filtering with a whole house filter to fail.

Occasionally I will filter a wine that has a slightly detectable cloudiness. When filtering the result looks like there is barely any noticeable change. I thought the problem was the filters with the plastic center damaging the seal on the filter housing. So I got all new filters and new filter housings. I tried to filter my rhubarb wine today using a P1 filter without the center plastic with a new filter housing. Once again, the wine came through without any noticeable difference (it was just so very slightly hazy before and after). And when I got to the end I purposely let a bit of fine sediment flow through to see if it plugged the filter. I had no change in pressure and the sediments went immediately right through the filter. This is a 1 micron filter. I checked the filter afterwards and it looks like there was a clean seal imprint on both ends. So it does not appear to be leaking around the edges of the filter. Or maybe it does!?!

I just don't trust this method to filter wine.


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## ibglowin (Mar 1, 2015)

Are you using the center PP insert?


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 1, 2015)

Mike at what filtration should the filter be in order to remove pectin or starch haze ? 

I did google it and yes they are both problematic with that type of wine.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 1, 2015)

Greg: I've had this issue before as well. I know I had a damaged housing lid from trying to get the thing tightened with the "plastic core" filters in there. I've switched to the P1 and P5 filters. But I've pretty much stopped filtering reds and don't do too many whites/lights. What puzzles me is; looking at the lid to the housing, I see nothing in the design that actually prevents the liquid from simply coming in through the input and flowing straight across to the output, bypassing the filter entirely. And I think it would be especially easy for that to happen if, like many do, the housing is inverted. Using Steve's suggestion of adding the pvc tube from the lid to the bottom of the housing may prevent that from happening though.


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## GreginND (Mar 1, 2015)

The filter does seal against the plastic ring at the top and the bottom of the filter. The in side directs the fluid to the outside of the filter. The exit takes the fluid from the inner chamber of the filter. There is no obvious way the liquid could flow directly from the inlet to the exit without passing through the filter.

I checked my filter carefully after I was done. There was a depression where the plastic ring at the top and bottom indented the filter. It was tightly fixed in place. The only thing I can think of is that this "seal" between the filter and the housing rings are not as tight as one might think. 

I do not have a center tube. The filter housing is completely unmodified.

The next time I rack I will be using my superjet filter. And I will be stepping up to a real steel cartridge filter soon.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 1, 2015)

I can tell you that McMaster Carr has .35 micron filters - BTW


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## ibglowin (Mar 1, 2015)

Greg, 

I have used all permutation of filter housings and filters. When I switched to the housing without the air tab (button) and added the PP insert I finally saw a perfect filtration. You know its working when it fills top to bottom and you get no air bubbles coming through the line.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 2, 2015)

@ibglowin: for clarification, what is the "PP insert"?


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 2, 2015)

PP = plastic pipe 

Look at post 72 or so on the review of the Allinonewinepump 
It. Is a 1/2 plastic pipe that is inserted into the filter top by tapping it out to 1/2 NPT


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 2, 2015)

vacuumpumpman said:


> PP = plastic pipe
> 
> Look at post 72 or so on the review of the Allinonewinepump
> It. Is a 1/2 plastic pipe that is inserted into the filter top by tapping it out to 1/2 NPT



PP = plastic pipe. So obvious, I missed it.  Thanks Steve.


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## sour_grapes (Mar 2, 2015)

Don't feel bad, Jim. I assumed it meant "polypropylene."


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## DoctorCAD (Mar 2, 2015)

My plate filter works every time...

http://www.thevintageshop.ca/allproducts/winebeerplatefilter01.html


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## GreginND (Mar 2, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Greg,
> 
> I have used all permutation of filter housings and filters. When I switched to the housing without the air tab (button) and added the PP insert I finally saw a perfect filtration. You know its working when it fills top to bottom and you get no air bubbles coming through the line.



Thanks for the information. I am using the housing without the pressure release button.

How does the presence of the PP insert change whether the filter is sealed or not? It looks sealed. I see no way the wine could get around the filter regardless of the PP insert. That simply extends the exit down to the bottom of the filter so one can fully empty the housing without turing it over.


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## ibglowin (Mar 2, 2015)

Or *P*oly *P*ropylene!


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## ibglowin (Mar 2, 2015)

Have your marked your top and bottom housing w/o a filter in place with a sharpie when the threads are dead tight so you can make sure you have tightened the filter/unit properly?

When I start out I make sure I hit the markings and go just a tad beyond, then run KMETA through it and watch how the solution flows. It if starts at the bottom and climbs all the way to the top before it starts coming out the exit tube you know you have a tight seal. If it starts at the bottom and only climbs halfway etc and then starts flowing out the exit line its leaking. Open back up try flipping the filter, close it back up, tighten up to marks and try again with KMETA to see how it flows. When its flowing bottom to top I then invert 180 and get the last tiny bit of air out of the line and from then on you should not see any more bubbles flowing through your lines. 

Its not perfect all the time but it works most of the time for me. In your case, perhaps a filter plate is more in order. Time is $$$ in a commercial operation.


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## GreginND (Mar 2, 2015)

Yes, I did all of that. Tight lid. The flow looked perfect. Filled from the bottom. The ends of the filters afterwards showed good seal indentations. I am actually at a loss to explain why it didn't work. I can't find anything obviously wrong. Could the batch of filter I have be bad?

I was using this as sort of a quick early filter, not as a final filter. I will need to step up the equipment for commercial quantities, obviously.


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## ou8amaus (Mar 3, 2015)

Maybe it is the 1 micron NOMINAL rating that is to blame? Need absolute 1 micron... or cheap sub 1 micron alternative.


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## GreginND (Mar 3, 2015)

No - 1 micron nominal should filter out anything that you could see.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 3, 2015)

vacuumpumpman said:


> Mike at what filtration should the filter be in order to remove pectin or starch haze ?
> 
> I did google it and yes they are both problematic with that type of wine.



Greg - 
Do you know what is the cause of your Haze ? 
Maybe a filter will not clear it up ?


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## grapeman (Mar 4, 2015)

GreginND said:


> The filter does seal against the plastic ring at the top and the bottom of the filter. The in side directs the fluid to the outside of the filter. The exit takes the fluid from the inner chamber of the filter. There is no obvious way the liquid could flow directly from the inlet to the exit without passing through the filter.
> 
> I checked my filter carefully after I was done. There was a depression where the plastic ring at the top and bottom indented the filter. It was tightly fixed in place. The only thing I can think of is that this "seal" between the filter and the housing rings are not as tight as one might think.
> 
> ...


 

I know another small winery that had used a stainless canister cartridge filter that recently told me he got rid of it and planned on using their Superjet instead. I guess scale has to be factored in. If you have too small of batches, the larger the filter of any type, the more wine you will lose.

I would think that when you have any type filter it will not remove hazes of any type only solid particles. I have tried to clear up hazy wine before with little luck. I imagine an absolute sterile filter might, but my scale is too small to get that sort of equipment and filters. 

Let us know when you find a filter setup that does the job properly so we might learn from your experimentation.


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## GreginND (Mar 4, 2015)

Well, the haze is one thing, but I definitely saw sediments flow right through the filter at the end. I will run this through my superjet the next time I rack and see how it works out.

I've never had a problem with rhubarb wine before. This one seems to be more cloudy than most I have made. But it is still young - I only started it in November. 

Regarding hazes in rhubarb wine - I can't find any good information on starch or pectin content. There are lots of anecdotal reports of both hazes in rhubarb. But some information I have read is that rhubarb is low in both of these. Never the less, I will do a pectinase trial and see if it helps.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 4, 2015)

Greg 
I just Google haze in rhubarb wine and it appears to be an issue with that type of wine. 

Mainly pectin and starch haze issues - which a filter will not fix to my understanding


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## ibglowin (Mar 4, 2015)

Is this the same Rhubarb wine that you had a hard time even trying to get it to start fermenting and you had to use multiple yeast starters?



GreginND said:


> I've never had a problem with rhubarb wine before.


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## GreginND (Mar 4, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Is this the same Rhubarb wine that you had a hard time even trying to get it to start fermenting and you had to use multiple yeast starters?



As a matter of fact, yes. Hmm. Could that be related? Any thoughts?

Steve,

Thanks. I can't find any good information on pectin/starch content.

This site says pectin in rhubarb is low 
http://www.pickleandpreserve.co.uk/index.php/blog/pectin-levels-in-fruit.html

This link says that starch in rhubarb is 0:
http://www.kickas.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=143543

Is there any good data to be found?


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## ibglowin (Mar 4, 2015)

Might just be something going on with this batch since you had so much trouble with it from the get go.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 4, 2015)

Greg I will post some articles latter tonight as I'm on a smart phone right now


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## dralarms (Mar 12, 2015)

I noticed on mine this last time I was getting some air. I disassembled the entire thing, replaced the teflon tape on the threads, cut the ends of the hose and heated them just a bit to make it easier to shove up on the barbs. 

Then I hooked the all in one to a 3 gal carboy, through the filter housing (like I was filtering), created a vacuum and plugging the end of the hose.

The I shoved the entire filter housing in a sink full of water. I figure if I had a leak it would suck water into the housing. After 1 hour I still had a vacuum and the inside of the housing is nice and dry.

Then I added a filter, closed the housing and repeated the test. Still no water and the filter stayed dry.

I think I have my air leak fixed.


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 12, 2015)

dralarms said:


> I noticed on mine this last time I was getting some air. I disassembled the entire thing, replaced the teflon tape on the threads, cut the ends of the hose and heated them just a bit to make it easier to shove up on the barbs.
> 
> Then I hooked the all in one to a 3 gal carboy, through the filter housing (like I was filtering), created a vacuum and plugging the end of the hose.
> 
> ...



Very good idea !

I always recommend to people to cut the hose off the filter housing - rather than trying to heat or physically pull it off - it is worth loosing 1/2'' of tubing rather have issues down the road.


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## dralarms (Mar 12, 2015)

vacuumpumpman said:


> Very good idea !
> 
> I always recommend to people to cut the hose off the filter housing - rather than trying to heat or physically pull it off - it is worth loosing 1/2'' of tubing rather have issues down the road.



I got extra hose so I'm just leaving it hooked up. I'll be in touch for an extra racking bung.


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