# Cynthiana Grapes



## 60acres (Apr 28, 2010)

<>I am a small Cynthiana grower in central Alabama, have been 
producing/trying to arrive at a suitable wine for personal consumption from the 
Cynthiana for 4-5 years but just have not been able to succeed in an end result 
ofa suitable wine.
</font><>I have had great success with the vine growing/berry 
production. Have found that the Cynthiana is very hardy/requires little 
"upkeep".
Seeking information/receipes regarding how to "deal with" the acidity levels, etc.
Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.
60acres/Joe Harris

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## xanxer82 (Apr 28, 2010)

Can you give us an example of your wine-making procedure? What do you let the Brix get to on the grapes? Do you test for TA pH? 
What yeast do you use? Do you test the SG?


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## fivebk (Apr 28, 2010)

First , welcome to the forum. I can't help you much, but maybe I can give a little info on where you might find some help. I live in NW Missouri and I know that there are a lot of cynthiana/Norton grapes grown in my state. There are many people on this site that I have all the confidence in the world in that will be able to help you over the hurdles you are facing. That being said you may be able to find a grower/winemaker in missouri that has experienced what you are dealing with .

Sorry , I said I wasn't much help I'm confident more will chime in though.

BOB


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## ArdenS (Apr 28, 2010)

Jack Keller, in his blog, has a recipe for what he calls "summer grapes", Cynthiana being one of those. I don't know how "kosher" it is to include links to his web site on this discussion. In fact, I may be pushing the limits here already. I cannot speak to how well it turns out, not having done it myself.


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## xanxer82 (Apr 28, 2010)

That variety is also called "Norton" it's used to make dry reds.


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## grapeman (Apr 28, 2010)

Jack Keller is a fellow winemaker and as such we don't have a problem with links or references to him or his site. I refer to him myself quite often. 
Look down to the bottom of this page on this website for a link to Jack's site.
http://www.finevinewines.com/home-wine-making-supply.htm


I wish I was more help to you, but have no Norton or Cynthiana experience either with the grapes or wine.




Welcome 60acres-love the name!


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## 60acres (Apr 28, 2010)

Thanks for the input. Could you provide an email address/tel#/name of an individual that produces wine from the Cynthiana/Norton grape. That way I could compare notes/steps. 
Thanks
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## ArdenS (Apr 29, 2010)

Jack Keller speaks of making wine from various native North American grapes. Scroll down about 7/8 the way the through the page on the following link and you will see his recipe for what he calls "Summer Grape Wine". He has mentioned Cynthiana a couple of times in his blog (I think in 2006 and again in 2009). There's not much there, but he might well be a good contact. Also, he seems to appreciate it when people ask him for a recipe for some particular type of produce (even sand burrs).

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/nativew1.asp

There may be someone on this forum who has made wine from Cynthiana grapes. This link is the best I can do. It will be interesting to hear how it works out for you coming up with a recipe you like.


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## smurfe (Apr 29, 2010)

Call or email this winery and see if they can give you some advice. I have had their Cynthiana wine and it is fabulous. I considered the wine from there one of the best parts from my vacation to Gatlinburg. 

http://www.mountainvalleywinery.com/index.htm

There was a winery at one time here in Louisiana that grew them and made wine. I think it was this place. 

http://www.pontchartrainvineyards.com/


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## Milwood (Jul 2, 2010)

You could use calcium carbonate to bring down the acid levels. I made a batch of Marechal Foch from fresh grapes last year and the finished wine was too acidic. I later learned that most of my friends used calcium carbonate to bring the acid levels down prior to fermentation. You could add some water too but only if you need to make a minor adjustment. Hybrids can be much higher in acid than your normal vinifera grapes. Hope this helps.


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## xanxer82 (Jul 4, 2010)

There was a nice article in WineMaker Magazine this month about Norton grapes.


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## Randoneur (Sep 19, 2010)

Here is my Norton / Cynthiana plan: 


The grape of extremes, Norton grapes have a "unique" chemistry, unlike any other grape. Farming and Fermentation is different for this grape. Magnesium needs to be farmed into the grape. Ripeness determination is by Brix, not TA.Additionally, Brix readings are not accurate in raw berries due to high levels of non sugar components. pH is almost alway high when Norton ripens. Total acidity isALWAYS high, so fermenation techniques are used deal with extreme levels of TA. Norton contains high potassium levels which help to reduce TA during cold stabilization. Malic acid is extreme, so malolactic fermentation is required.


Grapes:
Foliar spray plan same as all others to control fungus.
Foliar spray 4x with foliar bioactive tea and magnesium.
Pull 30-40% leaves several weeks after berry set.
Allow for 27 brix before picking.
Sample heated to 170 F, cool then test.
Sample will not be able to be accurately measured unless heated
If pH gets out of hand, pick at a 3.8 limit and adjust down to &lt;3.6
Try to get maximum hang time


Wine:
Pick early morning to keep grapes cool. Field sort each berry.
Sort to the extreme before pressing.
Add sulfite during pressing in small batches to 20ppm.
I add sulfite after each gallon of MUST coming out ot the crusher.
Mix MUST well and Test juice for SO2 and adjust as needed
Pull sample and heat to 170 F, cool, measure brix, pH, TA.
Add Tartaric to reduce pH to 3.5. 
High TA is ok, you will probably be &gt;15 g/l
Make adjustments, retest. 
Pitch yeast and add yeast nutrient. Control tempurature to 65F to 70F.
Punch cap twice a day.
Ferment on skins for 3 days and press. 3 Day limit is critical for stability.
Pressed juice is tested and adjusted again if neededfor pH.
Add malo culture at this time.
Ferment to dry. 
Rack off of gross lees and allow malo to continue. 
Malo fermentation is critical to balanceNorton.
Rack to clean wine as soon as Malo is complete.
Now to deal with the excess TA, Cold stabilize at 32F for6-8 weeks.
Excess potassium in Norton will remove the excess Tartaric acidif the pH is below 3.6. If your pH is above 3.6 it will not work - disaster will follow.
Add oak beans to clean carboy and rack cold wine off of the Tartrate crystal, allow headspace for expansion as the wine warms.
Test and adjust SO2 to 30ppm 
Age the wine until the oak is where you want it. 3 months? 
Test SO2 and rack again.
Bulk age, test and adjust SO2 to 30ppm and bottle. About 1 year from start.


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