# Sediment & racking



## skyal (Oct 3, 2010)

How much is too much? I've transferred most of my wine to the carboy, but there's at least 3L left in the fermenter. Every time I try to get it, I start getting a lot of sediment though. Should I be more concerned about getting most of the wine or leaving moresediment at this point? (I'm also wishing that I had one of those auto-syphons right about now)

Also, what do you do with what's left when you're done racking? Pour it outside? Pour it down the drain? Inquiring minds need to know.


----------



## Wade E (Oct 3, 2010)

Be more concerned about getting as much as you can now but leave the heavy mud in the bucket, the rest will settle out over time over a few rackings. If you fill the carboy and still have some left in there what most of us do is fill a wine bottle and use a #3 bung and airlock and let that settle out and use that for topping up this batch at a later time or drink it or use it to top up another like wine.


----------



## Racer (Oct 3, 2010)

It depends on what your racking. I'll transfer almost everything over to carboy if its a kit, clarified juice, of wine made from concentrate only. If its a wine from fruit or fresh grapes I'll try and rack off of the juice more carefully leaving alot more of the sediment behind. The heavier lees from fresh fruits and grapes can lead to off odors/aromas if left in the wine too long.

As far as what to do with the left overs? I generally pour it out on the compost pile.


----------



## closetwine (Oct 3, 2010)

I agree with Wade....


----------



## winemaker_3352 (Oct 4, 2010)

How are your siphoning it over?

I used to do the old hose and mouth routine and it was hard to get all the wine racked off w/o getting the sediment stirred up or sucked in - but since i have the vacuum pump and using a racking cane - it makes racking a lot easier.

I get all the wine off the sediment w/o getting any of the sediment or disturbing the sediment - if you find a decent one on ebay or craigslist - i would definitely suggest buying it.


----------



## skyal (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm using the hose & mouth routine. lol

Ok, I'll try to get more wine moved, then. It's a kit, but it's already had me reserve 2L for topping it off after adding the flavour pack. I just used a sanitized 2L pop bottle. Hoping that's ok.

I don't have a compost; guess I can just pour it outside?


----------



## skyal (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, it's racked & stabilized & flavoured & finished. I think that's what all those packets were for, anyway. Also degassed. Even with the flavouring & the reserved 2L, it isn't up to where the carboy narrows, although there's maybe 1-1 1/2 L left in the fermentor. I just could not seem to get the syphon going again.

The instructions just say to leave it until the 28th day, then bottle. I have a feeling that might not be the best way to do it, though.


----------



## closetwine (Oct 4, 2010)

It will have to be racked again, probably at least 2x more I would think. Wade or some1 with more kit experience ought to be by here soon.


----------



## BIGJEFF (Oct 4, 2010)

closetwine said:


> It will have to be racked again, probably at least 2x more I would think. Wade or some1 with more kit experience ought to be by here soon.


With kits I usualy rack only twice...
1-from primary to carboy for secondary fermentation
2-from secondary to carboy for stabilisation, degas and clarification.

and a 3rd time if I filter, but I don't think it's considered racking if you run it trough the filter.

Syal: If you follow the instructions that came with your kit carefuly you will have success, I suggest you make a few kits and once your confortable you can start "tweacking" your wine to make it more unique!

Good luck!!


----------



## robie (Oct 4, 2010)

When racking between carboys, where you only have sediment and not the loads of gunk in bottom of the fermentor, as your wine level gets down near the sediment, clamp down on your hose, so the flow of wine is cut to about 1/4th what it otherwise is. This will let you get a little closer to the sediment without sucking up so much of it.

Take what's left in the bottom of the carboy and pour it into a clear wine bottle. Put a bung and air lock on it. Let it set at 72 to 78 F until it settles again. After it settles for about 24 hours, you will see a clean delineation between sediment and the clear wine above it. Carefully siphon off the clear wine and discard the sediment. Sometimes you can reclaim up to a full bottle of wine this way.

Instead of a clear wine bottle, I use a sealable, wide mouthed jar for this, so I can use a sanitized turkey baster to carefully suck the wine off the sediment.

(You can even use this technique for reclaiming some wine off the bottom of your fermentor bucket; it's just a little more messy. I get really tired of wasting all that wine at the bottom.)


----------



## Dugger (Oct 4, 2010)

skyal said:


> I'm using the hose & mouth routine. lol



An alternative to the mouth method is the water method - just fill your hose with water, put the racking tube in your bucket, hold the end of the hose with your thumb ( or pinch cock), and release the water into your receiving vessel and the water will start the siphon. Don't worry about the water diluting your wine - it's a very small amount ( or you can start the siphon into a glass if you wish). 
This method works very well, is more sanitary and easier to control than the mouth method. 
But .. the auto siphon is the best!


----------



## skyal (Oct 4, 2010)

Dugger said:


> An alternative to the mouth method is the water method - just fill your hose with water, put the racking tube in your bucket, hold the end of the hose with your thumb ( or pinch cock), and release the water into your receiving vessel and the water will start the siphon. Don't worry about the water diluting your wine - it's a very small amount ( or you can start the siphon into a glass if you wish).
> This method works very well, is more sanitary and easier to control than the mouth method.
> But .. the auto siphon is the best!



That does sound much better! The main reason I stopped trying is I really didn't want to risk drinking a load of sediment. Probably a silly question, but since all I have for syphoning is a clear plastic tube, would I have to hold both ends until one was in the liquid; then release that end & hold the other until I put it in the bottle?

So, if I pulled off the rest of the wine into a bottle (or a few bottles, not sure how many it would take) & let it sit until it settled out again, could I then rack that into my carboy with the rest, or is it too late now, since I've stabilized & adding the flavouring & clearing packets?

The instructions for the kit have one more racking, after about 28 days or when clear, back into the primary fermenter just before bottling.


----------



## BIGJEFF (Oct 4, 2010)

skyal said:


> The instructions for the kit have one more racking, after about 28 days or when clear, back into the primary fermenter just before bottling.



that's when I usually filter mine


----------



## Wade E (Oct 4, 2010)

Instead of the mouth to racking hose method get your self an auto siphon. It will make your life much easier and actually fun! 
http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=4877


----------



## skyal (Oct 5, 2010)

I managed to get the siphoning going again this morning and got out about 2 1/4L. There's still a tiny bit there, but it's mostly sediment now, so I'm just going to leave it now.

I was still hoping someone could answer this question.



> So, if I pulled off the rest of the wine into a bottle (or a few bottles, not sure how many it would take) & let it sit until it settled out again, could I then rack that into my carboy with the rest, or is it too late now, since I've stabilized & adding the flavouring & clearing packets?



Thanks!


----------



## skyal (Oct 5, 2010)

Also, how do I tell when it's ready to be bottled?


----------



## Dugger (Oct 6, 2010)

skyal - you say you only have a tube for siphoning; does that mean you don't have a racking cane? If not you better get one, it really is something you need. If you do have one, attach your hose to it ,fill the hose with water ( keep both ends at same elevation), put the cane in your sending vessel and then put the end of the tube in the receiving vessel.
The reclaimed wine in your bottles has not been stabilized so you have to be careful about adding it - don't wait too long. Some people put it in the fridge to settle out more quickly and it would keep better I suppose. 
When to bottle? Good question. You haven't said what kit you are doing and this can make a difference. You do mention a flavour pack so is this a mist kit? If so, it can be bottled as soon as it clears. In fact, any wine can be bottled as soon as it clears, but many prefer to keep some wines, mostly reds, in the carboy for awhile before bottling. Do a search on bulk aging of wines and you will find plenty of information. You also have to decide whether you want to filter or not - some people filter all wines, some just the whites and some not at all.


----------



## skyal (Oct 6, 2010)

No, I don't have a racking cane. Just the metal in the tubing (it's from the Mini Jet). Unfortunately I seem to be missing a piece...think it's the sediment cap.

I transferred the majority to the carboy & stabilized,etc it the evening of the 3rd. Is it too late to add the rest now? It looks like the extra has settled quite a bit. Not a massive amount of sediment on the bottom, but considering they're just in bottles, it seems like a good amount.

I'm using an Orchard Breezin kit. It's for a Strawberry Riesling.


----------



## skyal (Oct 6, 2010)

I don't suppose anyone is around now to give me an answer? If it's ok to put them in with the bulk of the wine, I'd really like to do it this afternoon, but I don't want to risk wrecking my wine.


----------



## robie (Oct 6, 2010)

skyal said:


> I don't suppose anyone is around now to give me an answer? If it's ok to put them in with the bulk of the wine, I'd really like to do it this afternoon, but I don't want to risk wrecking my wine.



Are you talking about adding the newly clear and siphoned wine to the wine that's already bulk aging?

If that's your question, yes, just try to leave behind as much of the sediment, which is in the bottom of the bottles, as possible.

If that's not your question, please clarify.


----------



## robie (Oct 6, 2010)

I re-read your post. You indicated you have stabilized already. You haven't added the clearing agents, yet, have you?
You should not add them until ALL the wine is ready to clear.
If you have already added clarifiers, let us know before you add the extra wine to the rest.


----------



## robie (Oct 6, 2010)

Bottling?

You first have to possibly finish secondary, then clarify and add the F pack (in the order your instructions say).
Your instructions should tell you how long to leave the wine clarifying and how long after that before you bottle. It will be at least 10 days (probably longer) clarifying, but...
follow your instructions.

Don't get in too big a hurry to bottle, else you can end up with cloudy wine. If it is cloudy in the bottle, it will stay cloudy.

Just follow your instructions, it will be fine. I have made two O.B. kits and both turned out great.


----------



## skyal (Oct 6, 2010)

robie said:


> I re-read your post. You indicated you have stabilized already. You haven't added the clearing agents, yet, have you?
> You should not add them until ALL the wine is ready to clear.
> If you have already added clarifiers, let us know before you add the extra wine to the rest.



I added everything already because I didn't think I could rescue any more of the wine from the fermenter. The kit had me add 2 packages with powder in them (sulfite & sorbate, I think), then the flavour pack, then 2 clear liquid packages (Kieselsol and Chitosan, I believe).

Thank you for your help! I was worried I'd screwed it up & I guess I have.

I knew it would be a couple weeks until I could bottle, just was curious if there were any signs that would definitely show that it was ready or if it's more subjective.


----------



## robie (Oct 6, 2010)

I don't think you have screwed up!

It will take awhile for the clearing agents (two clear packages) to work, so you are likely just fine. There should still be sulfites and sorbate in the wine to take care of any yeast you may have reintroduced to the wine.

If you added the clearing agents several days ago, you might have a problem getting the wine to clear. (I'd bet your clearing agents are still working, so you will get a clear wine in the allotted time.)

You still have at least one more racking to do, anyway.

Just make sure that when it is time to bottle, there is no sediment AT ALL in the bottom of your carboy. If there is some, rack the wine again, wait about 3 more weeks and if no more sediment falls, bottle. 

Also, make sure the wine is crystal clear. Never bottle a non-cleared wine.


----------



## BIGJEFF (Oct 6, 2010)

If you really want to, you can buy those clearing agents at your wine store, degas and re-clear...i've done it before and didn't see a difference in the taste...


----------



## Wade E (Oct 6, 2010)

If it doesnt start clearing then you have 1 or 2 problems. One would be that you didnt degas your wine nearly enough and the other would be temps or possibly both of these. If you thinks you didnt degas then you could do this which will stir everything up all over again but if its starting to clear just give it more time. Degassing a wine should be done at a temp around 75* as that is a temp where trapped C02 will come out of fluids much easier then colder temps. Now as far as temps and clearing goes cooler temps work great when clearing naturally bit temps around 75* work way better when using a fining agent so get it up somehow if the temp is lower and youll probably see it start clearing much faster, With kits a temp of 75* is best to maintain all that way through until the wine is clear and ready to age and then its just stable temps that are important.


----------



## skyal (Oct 7, 2010)

I now have about 1L that wouldn't fit in the carboy. Stupid question...what do I do with it?


----------



## winemaker_3352 (Oct 7, 2010)

get a #2 drilled bung and an S air-lock - fill a 750 ml bottle up and attach the air-lock.

Use the rest for sampling


----------



## robie (Oct 7, 2010)

OK, at this point you have a carboy full of wine and it has been stabilized and had clearing agent added to it; it is in the process of clearing.

You have 1 liter of wine from the racking just after secondary and it probably has NOT had kmeta and sorbate added to it (it has not been stabilized.). If this is true, I'd just discard it.

If kmeta and sorbate has been added to the 1L:
After the bottle has set long enough to clear on its own, it can be utilized to top up another batch of wine. Maybe in a couple of months but not any sooner.
You can put 750 ml of it in a wine bottle with a bung and airlock on top. You can use a bung like this:
http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=5148 
Just turn the bung upside down and slip it over the top of the wine bottle.

On your full carboy of wine, after clearing is done and you rack, you will need to top up again with more wine.
BUT, you wouldn't want to top up cleared wine from a bottle of unstabilized or uncleared wine. The wine bottle will not have time to clear before the carboy has cleared and is ready to rack.

In a few months, the bottle will clear on its own. It will develop sediment in the bottom of the bottle, just like the carboy will, but at a much slower pace, since the wine bottle had no clearing agent in it. After the wine bottle has cleared, if you end up racking your full carboy of wine a second time, you can top up with the wine bottle.


----------



## skyal (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks! The 1L doesn't have any clearing/stabilizing stuff & I can't easily get any supplies, so I guess my only option is to dump it.


----------



## robie (Oct 7, 2010)

skyal said:


> Thanks! The 1L doesn't have any clearing/stabilizing stuff & I can't easily get any supplies, so I guess my only option is to dump it.



Like Winemaker 3352 said, run it through a coffee filter and sample it. It will be a pretty tart, but the flavor should still come through.


----------



## winemaker_3352 (Oct 7, 2010)

Yeah it is a good way to monitor the taste as you are going along. I sample throughout the process - make sure the smell and taste are normal or not.


----------



## WineRookie (Oct 11, 2012)

I've had the same questions with our first batch. I'm in the carboy now and have done the stabilizing, degassing and clearing phases. There appears to be a lot of sediment in the bottom of the carboy. What should I use to filter and should I rack it back to the fermenting bucket to filter? One last one for you pros, I've seen vids of people degassing the wine a bunch of times after the clearing stage. Will this ruin the wine to constantly degas it? Can I remove the airlock any time now? I thought the point of the airlock was to keep air out, but by tasting it or degassing it again, I'm introducing more air aren't I?


----------



## winemaker_3352 (Oct 11, 2012)

WineRookie said:


> I've had the same questions with our first batch. I'm in the carboy now and have done the stabilizing, degassing and clearing phases. There appears to be a lot of sediment in the bottom of the carboy. What should I use to filter and should I rack it back to the fermenting bucket to filter? One last one for you pros, I've seen vids of people degassing the wine a bunch of times after the clearing stage. Will this ruin the wine to constantly degas it? Can I remove the airlock any time now? I thought the point of the airlock was to keep air out, but by tasting it or degassing it again, I'm introducing more air aren't I?




Welcome aboard!!

How about posting a thread in the intro section - tell us a bit about yourself.

To your question - using a whip to degass you can introduce O2 - using a vacuum pump you will not.

Make sure you degas around 75* - it releases CO2 easier.

If you don't have an actual filter - buon vino or something similiar - don't worry about filtering it - just give it time.

If you do have a filter - rack off the sediment first - then filter - it is much easier..

If you have a vacuum pump - there is no need to actually degas - you degas as you rack the wine...

Always leave the airlock on - changes in barometric pressure can cause the volume to rise and lower - w/o an airlock it will suck in O2 or blow off the solid bung.


----------

