# What kind of trellis system is this? (Help Please)



## daniyalsm (Apr 8, 2015)

Hello. I am a totally new person to the field of growing grapes. I got an acre of different table grape varieties (flame seedless, king ruby etc) planted on my farm around late February this year. 

Now I just bought some trellis pillars, which I assume are called Y-pillars. 

Can you guys please let me know what trellis system can be made out of these and what should the distance of the wire be from the land surface. I personally think my farm workers installed these too high. 

Please let me know. Thank you.


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## djrockinsteve (Apr 8, 2015)

I only see 3 holes for a 3 wire trellis. These things are huge. You could trellis pumpkins on them. 

Never seen them that tall. Must be an aggressive vines. Looks like somewhere very hot by looks of the ground. I see troughs for irrigation too. 

I have no idea. Interesting.


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## daniyalsm (Apr 8, 2015)

djrockinsteve said:


> I only see 3 holes for a 3 wire trellis. These things are huge. You could trellis pumpkins on them.
> 
> Never seen them that tall. Must be an aggressive vines. Looks like somewhere very hot by looks of the ground. I see troughs for irrigation too.
> 
> I have no idea. Interesting.



Haha its Sheikhupura, Pakistan, and temperatures can go in excess of 115 Fahrenheit in the summers. Why did you think it was hot though? Currently weather is between 60-90 Fahrenheit.

Wines are probably aggressive, but I (extremely limited knowledge) still think they planted them too high. Does anyone know how high the wires should be. And how to even use this trellis system.

Plant spacing is 5 feet in row and 10 feet between rows. So about 800 plants per acre.

As for the troughs, are they a good idea? Thank you.


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## grapeman (Apr 8, 2015)

Those posts could be used for a Geneva Double Curtain system. One wire goes in each hole. The lower wire is used to fasten a stake to while training the vine up that. It is then directed to one side or the other, alternating. Optionally you can train to both wires by splitting the trunk (figuratively not literally). It is a bit high for that but if you have tall workers it will be OK. Normally the top wires are at 6 feet above ground. The vines are normally planted even with the posts, not off to one side. It could be used for a couple other systems also. Do the growers have any vine experience?


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## daniyalsm (Apr 8, 2015)

grapeman said:


> Those posts could be used for a Geneva Double Curtain system. One wire goes in each hole. The lower wire is used to fasten a stake to while training the vine up that. It is then directed to one side or the other, alternating. Optionally you can train to both wires by splitting the trunk (figuratively not literally). It is a bit high for that but if you have tall workers it will be OK. Normally the top wires are at 6 feet above ground. The vines are normally planted even with the posts, not off to one side. It could be used for a couple other systems also. Do the growers have any vine experience?



Thank you for the useful information! I had opened the link from where you got the second picture from, but those ones didn't look exactly like the pillars I have. Plus the height was much lower. 

Should the pillars have been in line with the grapes plants? 

Also which trellis system do you suggest?

Workers do not have any experience with grape vines. We usually plant crops like wheat, rice, corn, etc.


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## grapeman (Apr 8, 2015)

I have only seen vines planted on an offset like you have once where they angled the vines upwards to help block some sunshine in a very hot climate. That's why I asked it they had experience. 

I don't want to tell you how to do things. Let us see if others have any suggestions first.


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## garymc (Apr 9, 2015)

I grow a totally different type of grape from the varieties you have listed. I use the Geneva Double Curtain trellis as illustrated in the middle picture in post #4. However, I have mine taller than the illustration. My vines are on wires about 66 inches high, just about my height. I chose that for ease of picking and pruning. No bending over or crawling around on the ground. If the grapes grow near the wires on your trellis system, it looks to me like they'll be 6.5 or 7 feet off the ground. I couldn't tend or pick them that high. I have no idea where the grapes will be born on the varieties of vines you have, but if they're planted 5 feet apart, you don't need them 7 feet tall. I would put the posts, pillars as you call them, about 2 feet deeper into the ground to bring the height of the wires down to a distance your typical worker can deal with. When I say 2 feet, I'm just guessing from looking at pictures. Somebody familiar with your varieties may be able to speak to the arrangement of them on the wires. How much of those pillars are in the ground as they are?
The length of the cross posts on mine is 48 inches where the illustration shows 42 inches. So my trunk is in line with the post, comes up and divides and goes left and right to the two wires at the ends of the cross posts, then divide and go forward and backward along the wires just like in the middle figure in Gapeman's message.


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## garymc (Apr 9, 2015)

Here is a photo of one of my young vines before and after pruning to show how the shoots might grow. And another photo, probably another vine, with grapes on it. My grapes are muscadines, which have different requirements than the varieties you have mentioned.


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## garymc (Apr 9, 2015)

I was just thinking, we also plant wheat, rice, and corn. Soy beans and cotton are also grown here. I was wondering if you will have enough chill hours for the grapes during your winter? 
If you have enough humidity, I think my muscadines would enjoy the climate there.


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## daniyalsm (Apr 9, 2015)

Thank you very much for the useful information. I am currently studying in the U.S. and am relying on family to convey information, and thus do not know all the specifics.

From what I was told, the posts are 8 feet in height, with 2 feet in ground and 6 feet above ground. However now that you mentioned, they do look much higher than 6, as I do not believe the workers were only 5 feet tall. I do not know the cross-post distance as of yet.

Do you think that the plants, being only 5 feet apart, will be enough to yield highly?

And the climate of Sheikhupura is similar to that of Lahore, which I am posting in case you are interested. And yes we do get a lot of humidity in certain parts of the year, especially in mid July and August (monsoon rains).


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## garymc (Apr 9, 2015)

That looks like sandy soil. Six feet or more out of the ground and 2 feet in the ground might be another problem. When the vines get up on the trellises and have a lot of leaves that catch the wind, will the posts remain upright in a cross wind?
Once again, to compare to mine, mine are all over 8 feet long and 3 feet in the ground. But mine are round and might not be as stable as yours.


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