# Lawn equipment/motor advice needed



## Ajmassa (May 9, 2018)

Garden season! And ivy covering our future garden. 
Cleaned out above ground really well. But now we gotta get rid of the maze of roots that are endless underground. 
Neither of us really know what we’re doing here. Just shooting from the hip. But this forum is filled with knowledgeable people. I’m assumed I need to just till it. 
Yesterday I came home with a very old tiller I bought for next to nothing that doesnt start. Her name is ‘Betsy’ apparently. 5 HP. I think it’s a Briggs &Stratton motor. 
She wants to start so bad. I’ll get her to go for about 3-5 seconds but not turn over. 
Drained old oil and gas and put in new. Newer spark plug. That’s as far as my motor knowledge goes. I cheaped out on a tiller since $ priority is a decent mower and grill. I figure somebody here has gotta be familiar with these motors.


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## salcoco (May 9, 2018)

see if you can get a carbourater(sp?) kit from hardware store.
be ware roots might still grow new cover and tilling will only spread the roots.


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## Johnd (May 9, 2018)

Second on the carb. issue. Usually when these old dudes won't start, that's the culprit, old fuel gums them up..


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## Boatboy24 (May 9, 2018)

You've got John's second on the carb. I'll second on the tilling. That ivy is coming back and tilling will probably just make it more intense. I'm not sure of the best way to deal with it. I want to say use Roundup when it returns. But Roundup tends to hang around for a while and may end up in whatever veggies you're growing.


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## jswordy (May 9, 2018)

Use Roundup now, wait for it to kill it out, then till. The Roundup interacts well with soil and breaks down/neutralizes very quickly, and contrary to urban myth is one of the safest plant chemicals you can use. Be sure you wait long enough for the root to die, too.

If you are organic, the way to do it would be to cover the entire area with black plastic, weight that down with brick or stones or whatever, and wait a year. Your choice. 

It appears your engine is young enough to have a diaphragm pump. The diaphragm is located between the gas tank and what passes for a carburetor. When you remove the tank from the carb, you will also find a spring topped by an O-shaped metal ring. Be sure you take it apart carefully, note the parts and positions and get those all back in place in the correct order.

Note whether the little screens on the tubes that go down into the tank need cleaning. Spray and gently brush them with carb cleaner and a toothbrush to clean.

A carb kit is pretty cheap for these and will include the new rubber diaphragm. Locate your engine model number. On older B&S it typically is stamped into the blower housing/shroud. Bring that number with you to the parts store.

Empty all old gas and start anew.

I used to be a pro small engine mechanic. Good luck.


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## Ajmassa (May 9, 2018)

Thanks. I read about the spreading the roots issue. Going to be tedious but will remove as much root trimmings as possible while grading. 
Im gonna have to google what a ‘carburetor kit’ is. I didn’t even know they sold them at hardware stores. Swinging by a Tractor Supply close by. 
I couldn’t find much info for removing ivy AND planting a garden in the same spot. I’m open to any and all suggestions.

**Edit- I sent that reply before seeing the last 2 posts. As you can see in the pic all the ivy above ground is now gone. I didn’t think spraying roundup on the dirt would do much. What about tilling and chopping up the roots down as far as it’ll get and then spraying? I’m no organic and I’d spray copper sulfate everywhere if I could- but the whole kicker is wanting to have a decent looking garden going this summer. 
Vegetable garden will be different location. This will be decorative landscaping with a few blueberry/raspberry/blackberries planned.


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## pgentile (May 9, 2018)

Any chance there is a fuel line and/or filter on that tiller? Fuel lines and filters clog sometimes. But then again I know nothing about tillers. But I had a few minibikes when I was kid and a few lawnmowers all with similar motors.


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## Ajmassa (May 9, 2018)

jswordy said:


> Use Roundup now, wait for it to kill it out, then till. The Roundup interacts well with soil and breaks down/neutralizes very quickly, and contrary to urban myth is one of the safest plant chemicals you can use. Be sure you wait long enough for the root to die, too.
> 
> If you are organic, the way to do it would be to cover the entire area with black plastic, weight that down with brick or stones or whatever, and wait a year. Your choice.
> 
> ...



The first picture is a ‘before’ and 2nd is ‘after’. Do you still suggest spraying the bare ground? The roots run every which way underground likely deeper than I realize. 
I read that ivy will likely continue to grow back regardless of how you remove. And you just need to keep removing until it eventually stops. Initially I figured to rip it all out (already did that) till, remove root cuttings, spray with something safe, plant and mulch and remove new ivy as I see it. <—just so we’re on the same page. 
The engine deal? Wow. That was very specific. Much appreciated. I’ll let you know in a few hours how I make out. (Or you can swing by and help me. We’re doing steak for dinner. And of course- red wine. Tonight could be a 2 bottle night. More if you show  )


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## meadmaker1 (May 9, 2018)

In your carb kit thete will be a little rubber gasket with a couple tabs punched into it. It is the fuel pump diaphragm. If they get dry they wrinkle and crack and quit working. Simple to do irritating to get to. I carry a spare for my dredge.


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## Boatboy24 (May 9, 2018)

You can't spray the ground with Roundup. It is systemic and needs to be absorbed (through leaves, preferably). Ideal course of action would have been to leave the ivy in place and spray. Let it sit for a couple days, then water daily for a week, encouraging it to try and spring back. Then hit it again w/ the Round up and mow it down a couple days later. I'm really tempted to tell you to just wait until fall to plant anything. In the meantime, hit anything that comes up during the summer, during which time you can also till in some peat and compost a few times.


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## sour_grapes (May 9, 2018)

I concur with Jim. To kill the ivy, you need to let it live long enough to show its face (err, I mean leaves).


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## Ajmassa (May 9, 2018)

Figures


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## KayThrasher (May 10, 2018)

Be sure to use 100% gasoline in your tiller, not gas with ethanol. Older motors don't do well with the blends. Also, I keep a can of starting fluid on hand - really helps get older gas engines get going!


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## Ajmassa (May 10, 2018)

I stopped by Tractor Supply and loaded up carb/choke cleaner, starter fluid, some spray for the sparkplug port, degreaser etc... 
No carb kits tho. Got her running for about a minute and a half without much tinkering. Confident once I clean it all up via the advice I received here she’ll be good to go. 
Btw, my 1st time at Tractor Supply. My new favorite store.


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## pgentile (May 10, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I stopped by Tractor Supply and loaded up carb/choke cleaner, starter fluid, some spray for the sparkplug port, degreaser etc...
> No carb kits tho. Got her running for about a minute and a half without much tinkering. Confident once I clean it all up via the advice I received here she’ll be good to go.
> Btw, my 1st time at Tractor Supply. My new favorite store.



Come on.... more favorite than Gino Pinto"s??? Please save your love for trackers for tractortalk.com, and let's get back to grapes. Oh yeah and happy birthday, wish I started this hobby when I was 35, I'd have many aged wines by now and probably also be fatter than I am.


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## Ajmassa (May 10, 2018)

pgentile said:


> Come on.... more favorite than Gino Pinto"s??? Please save your love for trackers for tractortalk.com, and let's get back to grapes. Oh yeah and happy birthday, wish I started this hobby when I was 35, I'd have many aged wines by now and probably also be fatter than I am.



Thanks Paul. Growing up in Philly i never heard of the place and thought the same thing when I did. But not just all ‘tractors and John deer tear in my beer” stuff. Place is legit with quality tools. Like a hardware store on steroids w/o the extra BS like Home Depot. 
Seems like majority of home winemakers get into it a little later (because your smart and have your priorities is order unlike me  ). Either way I’m glad I got bit by the bug.


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## jswordy (May 10, 2018)

pgentile said:


> Come on.... more favorite than Gino Pinto"s??? Please save your love for trackers for tractortalk.com, and let's get back to grapes. Oh yeah and happy birthday, wish I started this hobby when I was 35, I'd have many aged wines by now and probably also be fatter than I am.



No tractors... no grapes...


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## jswordy (May 10, 2018)

KayThrasher said:


> Be sure to use 100% gasoline in your tiller, not gas with ethanol. Older motors don't do well with the blends. Also, I keep a can of starting fluid on hand - really helps get older gas engines get going!



A great way to blow the head clean off it. Never use starting fluid. I've seen the results when it goes wrong. The lucky ones just blow out the head gasket. To safely start a reluctant small engine, remove the plug and dribble a bit of gas directly in the cylinder. Replace plug and wire. Choke it fully. Try it. But any properly maintained engine should start in no more than two cord pulls with no additional help. Otherwise, back to the drawing board.

The best product anyone can have, if you do not run the engine dry of gas when you store it, is a container of Sta-Bil.


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## ibglowin (May 10, 2018)

I never had any problems using starting fluid........









jswordy said:


> A great way to blow the head clean off it. Never use starting fluid. I've seen the results when it goes wrong.


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## jswordy (May 10, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> I never had any problems using starting fluid........



I wouldn't know about that. All my equipment is perfectly tuned.


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## Ajmassa (May 10, 2018)

jswordy said:


> I wouldn't know about that. All my equipment is perfectly tuned.



But ‘starter fluid’ works even better on perfectly tuned equipment! A little performance enhancing is all it is. Getting horsepower out of the engine you didn’t even know it was capable of giving.


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## Boatboy24 (May 10, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> I never had any problems using starting fluid........


I don't need starting fluid. Just sayin'.


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## ibglowin (May 10, 2018)

There are only two types of small engines. Those that don't need starter fluid.........

And those that will.





Boatboy24 said:


> I don't need starting fluid. Just sayin'.


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## Ajmassa (May 10, 2018)

If we have to wait until next spring for the garden it is what it is. In the meantime I still needed a mower. I had become the only house on the block yet to mow the lawn. 
This brand new baby started up right away. No need for starter fluid, but again it’s not about ‘need’. Starter fluid is just plain fun! 
But PED’s aside, this Cub Cadet is awesome. Extremely happy with the purchase.


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## sour_grapes (May 10, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> There are only two types of small engines. Those that don't need starter fluid.........
> 
> And those that will.



Not that there is anything wrong with that, but ...... did you just cop to having a _small engine?_


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## ibglowin (May 11, 2018)

All winemakers have small engines. 

If they had large engines they would not be making wine, they would be making porn! 




sour_grapes said:


> Not that there is anything wrong with that, but ...... did you just cop to having a _small engine?_


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## winojoe (May 11, 2018)

Just an FYI: Ivy is not indigenous to North America Much like the English Sparrow, Pigeons & Carp, the British brought it America. Horticulturists will tell you never plant it.


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## malfrune (May 12, 2018)

Saw the spraying comments and wanted to add I had a mess if this ivy in my yard, "2,4-D" ( "two four D" if asking for it as shop) will kill it DEAD. Its a broad-leaf herbicide so watch it around trees but doesn't hurt a lot of grasses. *Do not spray the soil*, it's absorbed through the leaves and then kills the entire plant, great for poison ivy/oak as well. Just dampen the leaves and wait a week, it won't come back.


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## Jal5 (May 12, 2018)

On the tiller. Try a little Seafoam fuel treatment added to the fuel tank. Those small engines get really screwed up with our ethanol gas. The seafoam really helped with my chainsaw last fall. Worth a try before you go the carb rebuild route. Drain all old gas first and refill with new plus seafoam follow directions on can. 
Joe


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## Ajmassa (Jun 3, 2018)

A nice top layer of ivy is growing out. Another couple weeks of growth I think and I can spray it to also hopefully kill the root growth. And then till after. 
Still haven’t tinkered with the tiller. I will as it gets closer to tilling time. Ripping out the top layer prematurely not a total loss tho. It’ll make the 2nd go ‘round much more manageable.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 3, 2018)

Kill it, wait two weeks, then till. Then give it another few weeks and kill anything else that comes up.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 3, 2018)

I was actually gonna wait another 2 weeks for the top leaves to get a little thicker- making sure the round-up got as much as it possibly can. 
Then till 2wks after spraying. Think it’s good to spray now? We’ve come to terms with not having a garden this summer. And whattya think is better- Weed&grass or Poison ivy&brush killer?


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 4, 2018)

Can't quite make out the label. What are the active ingredients in your Ivy and brush killer?


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## Ajmassa (Jun 4, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Can't quite make out the label. What are the active ingredients in your Ivy and brush killer?



Is that a real question or u messing with me?


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 4, 2018)

real question


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## Ajmassa (Jun 4, 2018)

best I can do right now


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## bstnh1 (Jun 4, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> You've got John's second on the carb. I'll second on the tilling. That ivy is coming back and tilling will probably just make it more intense. I'm not sure of the best way to deal with it. I want to say use Roundup when it returns. But Roundup tends to hang around for a while and may end up in whatever veggies you're growing.



I know a guy who raises asparagus commercially. He sprays the asparagus beds with Roundup every spring before the asparagus emerges to get rid of any weeds that have sprouted. It has no effect on the asparagus when it emerges a little later.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 4, 2018)

Go w/ the Roundup.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 4, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> Go w/ the Roundup.



You da MAN Jim! Thanks


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## pgentile (Jun 4, 2018)

Yeah roundup! Yeah more bee deaths! We don't need those pesky bees for grapes so kill away. We also don't need all those fruits and vegetables that the bees pollinate. 

Sorry not a fan of roundup and similar stuff under any circumstance.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 4, 2018)

pgentile said:


> Yeah roundup! Yeah more bee deaths! We don't need those pesky bees for grapes so kill away. We also don't need all those fruits and vegetables that the bees pollinate.
> 
> Sorry not a fan of roundup and similar stuff under any circumstance.



Careful now. Sarcasm in texts can be read many ways- and usually not in the tone your meaning. 
But apparently roundup is said to be safer than most others- and safer than many DIY home remedy type killers too. Or so I’ve read. I don’t know either way. I just know I DONT want ivy again - The English and the poison (she needed 3 rounds of prednisone. Was brutal) and the roots. And I DO want a nice garden. 
I’m ok using whatever I need to for my backyard. Maybe later in life I’ll develop stronger Enviromental morals- but for now I want a good looking backyard.
FWIW I left a whole area covering my fence and behind the shed of overgrown honeysuckle vines/growth. It’s a nuisance but smells nice-looks nice-and feeds all the flying guests. Maybe that will cancel out the evil of roundup in the other corner


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## Ajmassa (Jun 4, 2018)

Also- don’t just hit me with saying your highly against roundup “under any circumstance” - let me know any alternatives you suggest. I’m pretty naive to all of this stuff essentially. ANY insight here is helpful


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## ibglowin (Jun 4, 2018)

I will just say this. The older you get and the more people you meet in this world. The more one realizes that the less direct exposure you have to chemicals in your environment the better off you are. There is lots of info out there that says Roundup is safe to use and breaks down within 24 hours. Other studies show it never breaks down and causes cancer. I no longer use Roundup or any herbicide around the house. It’s just not worth it IMHO. Hand pull weeds or use a propane torch for big jobs. My sig says it all.


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## pgentile (Jun 4, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Careful now. Sarcasm in texts can be read many ways- and usually not in the tone your meaning.
> But apparently roundup is said to be safer than most others- and safer than many DIY home remedy type killers too. Or so I’ve read. I don’t know either way. I just know I DONT want ivy again - The English and the poison (she needed 3 rounds of prednisone. Was brutal) and the roots. And I DO want a nice garden.
> I’m ok using whatever I need to for my backyard. Maybe later in life I’ll develop stronger Enviromental morals- but for now I want a good looking backyard.
> FWIW I left a whole area covering my fence and behind the shed of overgrown honeysuckle vines/growth. It’s a nuisance but smells nice-looks nice-and feeds all the flying guests. Maybe that will cancel out the evil of roundup in the other corner



I'll start using emoticons and emoji's more. Hey I've been there and back again with the environmental thing, but like @ibglowin says the older I get the less i want to be around or like the long term consequences of chemicals. I have a micro yard in the city, so it's easy but, I have ivy, vinca and poison ivy that keeps trying to come back each year and I rip it out. And having planted many other things helps thwart it.

I have no experience or words of wisdom with trying to rip out and control a large patch of ivy/vines. But if it were me I would physically rip out all I could find, till it good, physically remove more that the tilling pulled up. Add new top layer of soil and plant new garden. then rip any ivy/vines that try gain foot hold as time goes by.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 4, 2018)

ibglowin said:


> I will just say this. The older you get and the more people you meet in this world. The more one realizes that the less direct exposure you have to chemicals in your environment the better off you are. There is lots of info out there that says Roundup is safe to use and breaks down within 24 hours. Other studies show it never breaks down and causes cancer. I no longer use Roundup or any herbicide around the house. It’s just not worth it IMHO. Hand pull weeds or use a propane torch for big jobs. My sig says it all.



Some sources say perfectly safe. Others say exact opposite. Some say both in the same damn sentence. 
We already removed by hand. And was not easy or quick. With Close to 50’ linear of fencing that had mature ivy weaved around as well. Both English and posion. But the maze of thick roots under the surface is insane. The amount of roots are as thick down 10” as they are at 2”’ haven’t checked deeper. Not one spot can you dig a shovel into dirt more than 2” before roots stop it. And Paul, I had the same exact idea initially. I was ready to till right away until learned I’d just be spreading it and would easily return. I gotta kill the root system to potentially have a garden I’ve read. 
Mrs Massa wasn’t keen on the roundup idea. But now we realize how sensitive to poison ivy she is, and how tolerant I am of it- the rest of this work is all on me.


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## pgentile (Jun 4, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> And Paul, I had the same exact idea initially. I was ready to till right away until learned I’d just be spreading it and would easily return. I gotta kill the root system to potentially have a garden I’ve read. Mrs Massa wasn’t keen on the roundup idea. But now we realize how sensitive to poison ivy she is, and how tolerant I am of it- the rest of this work is all on me.



I understand that poison ivy thing, I have to wear gloves to rip it out and then throw them away without touching the outside of the glove. 

Covering the ivy area with 6-8" of mulch after physically removing as much as possible is supposed to thwart it pretty good, but I've had it just power through the mulch after a while. You are probably not going get it completely unless you use the roundup.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 4, 2018)

Well I’m not doing anything until I mess with the tiller and get her running anyway. Just kinda shooting from the hip here- nothing set in stone. Might do a small test location and see if does what I need it to do. 
This garden will be strictly aesthetics FWIW. The fun stuff will be in a different location, the green bell peppers, long hots, tomatoes, eggplant, at least 4 types of berry, numerous herbs— I want it all! Plenty of space. And after all, I did move to “The Garden State”. When in Rome...


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## Ajmassa (Jun 17, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Mrs Massa wasn’t keen on the roundup idea. But now we realize how sensitive to poison ivy she is, and how tolerant I am of it- the rest of this work is all on me.



Just left the doctor to get my very own prescription for Prednisone! 
Pretty large tree had tons of very mature vines running up. So I cut a section out of all the hairy vines and found the “mother vine” at the base. A knuckle with thick vines both coming and going. I left the knuckle and all the vines that were coming from under the surface. And then loaded it up with copper nails. So far so good. 
All poison ivy is dying above (which went up over 40’). The sections I nailed have turned completely black with some thick tar like substance. 
I got infected pretty good but was a necessary evil. Gotta crack a few eggs if ya wanna make an omelet as they say!


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 17, 2018)

I have bees and live very near some of the largest grass seed fields in the world
Meadow foam is grown right next to it. When you buy grass seed it claims to be what it says to a very high % . They used to burn the fields to kill foreign seed but someone in Eugene got a runny nose so, so can't do that any more. Round up, retill, replant.
Thousands of bees on meadow foam or sage next door.
I make no scientific claim but the bees are focused on nectar .
I would hope you would avoid spraying flowers of any kind, spray late hoping to be dry by morning, if possible spray during a heavy bloom of something else (for me now with black berry popping) . I'm gonna spray some poison oak very soon my self.
I want to hit it and be done.


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## wrongway (Jun 18, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Garden season! And ivy covering our future garden.
> Cleaned out above ground really well. But now we gotta get rid of the maze of roots that are endless underground.
> Neither of us really know what we’re doing here. Just shooting from the hip. But this forum is filled with knowledgeable people. I’m assumed I need to just till it.
> Yesterday I came home with a very old tiller I bought for next to nothing that doesnt start. Her name is ‘Betsy’ apparently. 5 HP. I think it’s a Briggs &Stratton motor.
> ...




I am sorry I do not know much about Gardening, But I would put a small block Chevy in that tiller if I was you! P.S. Maybe I am doing something wrong but every time I have ever used Roundup, The weeds just grew like weeds!


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## Ajmassa (Jun 18, 2018)

wrongway said:


> I am sorry I do not know much about Gardening, But I would put a small block Chevy in that tiller if I was you! P.S. Maybe I am doing something wrong but every time I have ever used Roundup, The weeds just grew like weeds!



Coincidentally I just read an article yesterday on the first lawsuit to make it to court claiming roundup caused the plaintiff to get cancer. Expedited because of his deteriorating condition in spite the of all the data showing its safe. Should be interesting to see how it shakes out. I’ll try and dig it up and post

“He's dying of cancer. Now, he's the first patient to go to trial to argue Roundup made him sick - CNN” https://apple.news/A21aH9_RSQtGkqtpizlnxbg


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