# Extracts



## Poormanfarm (Nov 19, 2012)

I keep reading and trying to learn about how to improve the flavor of my wines without give it an artificial or medicinal taste. Has anyone out there found the secret or developed a technique with extracts/flavors that you where really happy with and will use again. I would love to hear from you. Thanks in advance.


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## non-grapenut (Nov 20, 2012)

I have had great success using extracts purchased from Midwest brewing. I have used the following: blueberry in blueberry wine, peach in peach and mixed fruit light wine, cranberry in cranberry-pomegranite. It's a good alternative to adding reduced fruit juice while sweetening and didn't cause haze. Start with 2 oz to 5 gal and taste test.


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## Pumpkinman (Nov 20, 2012)

I thought I was ordering extracts, what I received was Artificial Fruit flavorings made by brewers best....I was trying to get a feel for a peach chardonnay or Pinot Grigio...not good at all, very nasty medicinal aftertaste.
I ordered what is listed as Peach extract, and even shows it as a nice peach color, but when I received it, along with the other "extracts", they are actually Artificial Fruit Flavorings.... I guess I have to make a call to Midwest tomorrow and get these returned.


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## Pumpkinman (Nov 20, 2012)

I've found Pure extracts, I wonder if these would work? Click here 

Any ideas?


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## Julie (Nov 20, 2012)

Pumpkinman said:


> I've found Pure extracts, I wonder if these would work? Click here
> 
> Any ideas?


 
There was someone on here who used these and said they worked very well. 

But to be honest, just add enough fruit up front and you won't need to worry about extracts. I have used extracts but my wines with enough fruit always seem to taste better than those with an extract in them.


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## joeswine (Nov 20, 2012)

*Extracts how to*

 THE BEST EXTRACTS ARE THE ONES YOU MAKE YOURSELF ,BUT NOT ALL FLAVORS COME OUT GREAT,AS DESCRIBED FROM ABOVE,EXTRACTS HAVE BEEN USED FOR DECADES TO INFUSE WINES ,BEERS AND MEAD,,,,,,,,,READ WHEN GOOD WINES GONE BAD ON THIS FORUM THAT WILL PUT YOU IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION,MOST BOUGHT EXTRACTS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A VERY FEW DO HAVE A CHEMICAL AFTER TONE,SOME ARE QUITE POOR,LEARNING HOW TO MAKE YOUR OWN IS THE KEY...WELCOME TO MY WORLD


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## Turock (Nov 20, 2012)

I totally agree with Julie. When making fruit wines, if you increase your poundage and use no water, your wine will be fabulous. However, there are a couple fruit wines that actually turn out better when dilutions are made---like red raspberry. Blackraspberry is very bland when made with all fruit. We cut it 50/50 with Niagara and that makes the flavor of the raspberry come forward.

So with those 2 exceptions, you are better off using no water and you'll have no use for flavorings. Some peach varieties are delicate in flavor. If you find a deal on them and choose to use them, you can add a couple cans of peach CONCENTRATE--not EXTRACT--in the primary with the peaches and you'll get a better result.


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## Pumpkinman (Nov 20, 2012)

I agree 100% fruit upfront has to be flat out better, unfortunately, this was an after thought, these 2 wines that I want to experiment with are going out to cold stabilization and bulk aging within the week.
Joeswine, I've been following your threads, very informative! Do you have any tips on how to make extracts?
Thanks,
Tom


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## joeswine (Nov 20, 2012)

It all depends what you want to do? What flavor extract. You will make? I do not understand it. Not adding any water? That requires a tremendous amount of fruit lot of acid . The balance. 

Raspberries, blackberries are very fruit forward when I make these wines . I always add filtered water , , as far as a fpacs are concerned. There is two ways to do it the T raditional cooking methods or you do a fresh press . This not only adds true flavor but deepens the color no other additives are needed its fruit , , water and sugar and then the usual suspects . 

Tell me what type extract would you like to make ? K


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## Pumpkinman (Nov 21, 2012)

Joe, lets start on the basis that I have no idea how to make an extract, I do understand that it would take a lot of fruit, I was just curious if you had a fool proof method, when you wrote


> HE BEST EXTRACTS ARE THE ONES YOU MAKE YOURSELF


It is much easier to buy a couple and test them out on very small amounts.
Thanks,
Tom


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## joeswine (Nov 21, 2012)

in there own right they are a derivative of the whole,in other words the oils from a orange or other citrus,the pure nectar or a peach,processed and then reused,but you probable understood that ,so how do we get there?

first lets taste the zest of a lemon,(color part only)and immerse it in to alcohol (evercleer or vodka)let it soak for a month now you have a the extract of lemon,Cinnamon,or any fruit item you want to extract the oils from,most grape wines you can use concentrates,white or red to boost the background of the finish product,whether you want a cocoanut extract to make your own pino colada or making a great pineapple extract,but there is nothing that's fool proof ,the fun is in the trying,there are others on this forum who have tried my methods and have had great response,from once they began to experiment in this arena,if you want go on my threads and I can elaborate just how to ,buying isn't always what it works out to be in this field,fpacs for example are a excellent chemical experiment when you see if coming from a pouch,but they work,fresh squeezing fruit is a another method of enhancing flavor directly,. 

GREAT SUBJECT AND EVEN BETTER FUN


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## Pumpkinman (Nov 21, 2012)

Joe, , I understand, I was hoping that there might be some simple fast way to make your own extracts, I was a chef for years and I use to team up with the bakers when I was slow, just to try to learn little tricks like how to make extracts and such, the general consensus was that although the quality might be better (in some cases) it wasn't cost effective to make them.
Even the high end, upscale hotels and restaurants are purchasing them, they just buy a higher quality product.
Thanks for the info.


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## jswordy (Nov 21, 2012)

Julie said:


> There was someone on here who used these and said they worked very well.
> 
> But to be honest, just add enough fruit up front and you won't need to worry about extracts. I have used extracts but my wines with enough fruit always seem to taste better than those with an extract in them.


 
I've used the Olive Nation extracts - they do OK, but if you use too much you are going to pick up the harsh alcohol flavor from the extract itself, which sets your aging process back by months while you wait for it to mellow. Also, some of these I have used have come preserved with propolyene glycol, if you have an aversion to having anything unnatural in your wines. Propolyene glycol is a chemical cousin to car antifreeze that is approved as safe for human consumption.

I've had good luck with juice concentrates from Dynamic Health and other "natural" brands, available through Amazon.


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## Pumpkinman (Nov 21, 2012)

> Propolyene glycol is a chemical cousin to car antifreeze that is approved as safe for human consumption.


WOW! WHOA! No I do not want this garbage in my wine, thanks a million!


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## GreginND (Nov 21, 2012)

Pumpkinman said:


> WOW! WHOA! No I do not want this garbage in my wine, thanks a million!



For he record propylene glycol snt quite the same as ethylene glycol (antifreeze). 

And the only difference between ethylene glycol and ethanol is a single oxygen atom.


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## Runningwolf (Nov 21, 2012)

GreginND said:


> For he record propylene glycol snt quite the same as ethylene glycol (antifreeze).
> 
> And the only difference between ethylene glycol and ethanol is a single oxygen atom.


 
Now I know why my wine never freezes and I never get cold when I'm drinking it. 

Greg, Lauri said to say "Hi"


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## the_rayway (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm using this extract in Natural Orange Oil right now - it's super concentrated and made to use in baking...

http://www.vanillafoodcompany.ca/LorAnn-Candy-Oils-p/lor-candy-par-1oz.htm


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## wineon4 (Jan 22, 2013)

Julie said:


> There was someone on here who used these and said they worked very well.
> 
> But to be honest, just add enough fruit up front and you won't need to worry about extracts. I have used extracts but my wines with enough fruit always seem to taste better than those with an extract in them.




I am in the same camp as Julie, use more fruit than called for and the flavor will be there. Keep in mind that many wines do not taste like the fruit in a raw state. I made 15 gallon of banana using 80 lb of bananas and it has a very light banana flavor but looks like and tastes more like a Chablis. Blueberry wine should not have an over powering taste of blueberries, my blueberry from last year won a Silver in the fall comp.. I enter my wines in competion and if you use a flavor enhancer it could be disqualfied. Just recently made a black raspberry and used almost 8lb of berries per gallon and I expect it to medal in the spring wine comp.


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## Sammyk (Jan 22, 2013)

I am probably the one Julie is referring to that uses Olive Nation. I use them in baking. The trick is to not over use them or they can impart a bitter flavor in wine.

I make my own vanilla extract by putting vanilla beans in Bacardi Rum for several months. And if I add vanilla to a wine that is what I use. It works great for baking, the best vanilla I have found. Just don't add too much. Less of a mess then using the beans in the wine. That is just my opinion.
I have about 12 different bottles of their extract because I do a lot of baking.
Some times one is a little light on fresh fruit and no way to get more so extract will impart a better fruit flavor.

I picked up a bottle of Blueberry Flavor at my LHBS and it was artificially flavored and IMO it was junk and tasted "phony".


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## saramc (Jan 22, 2013)

I also use Olive Nation store extracts in the kitchen, same as sammyk. Also have made my own vanilla extract, since I was a teen and in charge of desserts at home.
There is a chocolate strawberry port recipe floating around and the Olive Nation extract fits the bill for that recipe, Star Kay White brand is amazing stuff.


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## Sammyk (Jan 22, 2013)

Sara which brand do you prefer best?


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## saramc (Jan 23, 2013)

Sammyk said:


> Sara which brand do you prefer best?



Well Olive Nation has the best price on Star Kay White and when I find those I buy them. I also like the other extracts that Olive Nation carries, I cannot recall brand or if it their house label simply because I transfer my extracts to small glass bottles that I custom decorate. I have not had any concerns with any extracts at Olive Nation. But for vanilla, I use Madagascar beans, approx 6", eight per 750ml bottle of liquor of choice. Being from KY, for years I used bourbon and currently adore using Evan Williams Honey Reserve, have also used rum and vodka.


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## jswordy (Jan 23, 2013)

GreginND said:


> For he record propylene glycol snt quite the same as ethylene glycol (antifreeze).
> 
> And the only difference between ethylene glycol and ethanol is a single oxygen atom.



I did want to get back to this post, as I noticed it while running through here again to catch up. If you go to your area recreational vehicle dealer, you'll find propylene glycol is an antifreeze. It is sold by the gallon and five gallon unit to be used as an RV antifreeze to keep lines and sewers from freezing while stored in winter. Wal-Mart even stocks it. It is a chemical cousin of ethylene glycol and has been declared safe for human consumption.

I also have propylene glycol running through my water radiant heat system at home. That's because the system is connected by a one-way fill valve to the water system, so the antifreeze must be safe to consume on the rare chance there ever is a backwash.

I've used propylene glycol preserved extracts in my wine before, but some may not want to do it.


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