# Mass cleaning of bottles



## niall111 (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm fairly new to this whole thing, i've done 6 batches of various wines, with my last try being 2 batches at once. I've acquired enough materials to now make 3 batches at a time if I really wanted to, but my main problem with this is bottling. Doing 60 bottles took FOREVER to clean, sanitize, and rinse. Easily took us 3-4 hours with a friend, wife, and myself. 

Now my main bottle sanitizer is the red/white one in the middle of this image:






We give it a few pumps per bottle, then rinse the bottle 3-4 times before bottling, but prior to these steps, those bottles have to be cleaned. It was time consuming, putting a dab of dish soap in each bottle, shaking it up and hoping that was clean enough, then on to sanitizing. We do this because most of our bottles have some amount of old dried up wine sitting in them. BUT, I have an idea, which is the reason for this post.

What if I filled up our entire bathtub with very hot water + dish soap, and then put all the bottles in there to soak for maybe an hour or two? Give them a quick rinse and they should be clean as can be? Alternatively, perhaps i'm misunderstanding the purpose of the pink sanitizing powder, and I could just use that rather than dish soap to both clean AND sanitize in one step, just leaving us with the manual labour of rinsing afterwards? Maybe as we remove the bottles from the tub, we could cover the top with our hands and shake up some of the sanitizing liquid in there for extra effect? 

Honestly, i'm just looking for a faster way to deal with larger numbers of bottles like this. Maybe there's a tool I could get that I just haven't come across yet, but in my newbie mind this bathtub idea seems sound?


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## Rocky (Sep 6, 2012)

Niall, filling a vessel with hot water and dish soap and soaking would be a good start, but I would run the bottle brush through each bottle, rinse well (I see you have the faucet attachment for rinsing), hit it on the Vinator and hang it on the rack. The trace amount of K-meta that dries inside the bottle is just additional insurance. I do not rinse the bottle after spritzing it on the Vinator.

BTW, I am assuming that the picture is not a file photo and is your actual equipment.


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## rob (Sep 6, 2012)

Soak the bottles for about 15 minutes, then take a straight edge razor blade that would fit into a holder, scrap the label, then wet the bottle and take an sos pad and remove the remaining glue. I did 150 yesterday in 2 hours.


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## southlake333 (Sep 6, 2012)

#1 - Not sure what you're using to sanitize but you should not rinse after sanitizing. If you do, the bottles are no longer sanitized. That'll save some time. Using kmeta to sanitize will only introduce a bit more kmeta to your wine if not rinsed which is fine.
#2 - I see you have a bottle brush, you don't have to shake and hope if you have a brush to scrub the bottles with.
#3 - Letting the bottles soak for an hour in a cleaning solution will definitely help and be way easier than a dab of dish soap per bottle. I let mine soak in an Easy Clean solution but dish soap would work just as well. I use my sink to do 16-18 wine bottles at a time (not the bathtub).
#4 - What is the pink sanitizing powder you are using?

For cleaning, I personally soak the bottles in my sink filled with water and some Easy Clean. Then I rinse them out and ensure there's no sediment left from a previous batch. If there is, those get attacked by the bottle brush. From there, they sit on the counter waiting for use. 

When I'm ready, I put a kmeta sanitizing solution in a spray bottle and give each bottle a few sprays. I then let them sit while I get my actual wine ready with the bottling attachment (10 min or so). Once that's all prepared, I dump out each bottle to get rid of any sitting kmeta solution and proceed to bottle. This has worked well for me so far.

I do think its worth noting that I clean my bottles slowly over the course of a week while watching tv when I get time. Then they're all ready for me when I get around to bottling on the weekend.


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## niall111 (Sep 6, 2012)

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that it was indeed a file photo I found while googling "red and white wine sanitizer", hah! I have most of that equipment in the picture but not all of it... yet!

I'm not sure what this kmeta you speak of is? I use Chlorinated tri-sodium phosphate (pink stuff) for sanitizing, same thing? I am sure I was told somewhere in instructions to rinse the bottles after using that, presumably because it contains chlorine? OK, after googling, kmeta is "potassium metabisulfite"? I recall that name as one of the ingredients I add to each kit, I think. It's also a sanitizer? That seems easier if I don't have to bother rinsing it out, so maybe i'll make a stop at the winemaking store and see if they have any. 

Rocky, I do have that straight brush in the picture, thank you for informing me that it's a bottle brush, because I sure couldn't figure out how it was going to help me clean my carboys!  I'm getting the angled brush as well, since my carboys are just now starting to get a bit dirty on the top.

Rob, my wife does all of the label removing for used bottles, god love her, but that's an awesome tip. She's been putting boiling water in the bottles and scraping with a sponge and her fingers! Will pass this along.

southlake, thanks for the tips! Now that I know what the bottle brush is, I'll definitely start doing that after the soaking, as you mentioned. 


Thanks guys, this has been incredibly helpful!


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## Noontime (Sep 6, 2012)

niall111 said:


> I'm not sure what this kmeta you speak of is? I use Chlorinated tri-sodium phosphate (pink stuff) for sanitizing, same thing? I am sure I was told somewhere in instructions to rinse the bottles after using that, presumably because it contains chlorine? OK, after googling, kmeta is "potassium metabisulfite"? I recall that name as one of the ingredients I add to each kit, I think. It's also a sanitizer?


TSP is usually used as a cleaner, while kmeta is a sanitizer. Most winemakers clean, rinse, then sanitize. I've found the best method is cleaning everything after its used, then it only requires a light cleaning and sanitizing the next time you want to use it.


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## DoctorCAD (Sep 6, 2012)

Soaking the bottles in a large Rubbermaid storage tub filled with water and Oxi-Clean overnight is how I clean them. I cut the loop off the end of a bottle brush and chuck it into a cordless drill. Push it into the bottle and give it about 20 - 30 seconds on high speed. If there was anything in the bottle, that takes it out. Rinse and store in used wine cartons.

On bottling day, a double sink with one side One-Step and the other clear water is plenty to make sure nothing got in the bottles. A few squirts with the "red and white" sterilizing thing filled with k-meta solution and that's all you need.

It is a time wasting issue, but cleanliness is the MOST important issue with bottling.


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## niall111 (Sep 6, 2012)

I believe my pink powder stuff MAY be Diversol? As described here:
http://www.grapeandgrain.ca/info/cleanandsanitize.html
(scroll down a page to the section on Diversol)

It's supposed to both clean AND sanitize? It says it requires a 20 minute soak though, which I definitely haven't been doing. (How have I not killed anyone with my wines yet?!) However, what if I used that in place of soap, as they suggest at the link above? Soak the bottles in a tub of hot water + diversol for an hour or two, maybe a couple pumps of the jet washer right in the tub, rinse and bottle?


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## jswordy (Sep 6, 2012)

DoctorCAD said:


> Soaking the bottles in a large Rubbermaid storage tub filled with water and Oxi-Clean overnight is how I clean them.


 

Caution: If you use Oxiclean, buy the UNSCENTED version. And be sure to pull those bottles out after a day or so. Don't forget them and let them sit in that water a few days, or the Oxyclean will literally etch a water ring around the bottle. Ask me how I know!

I would recommend the use of rubber gloves. I didn't use them but I will next time if I do it this way again.

My trial results with Oxcyclean were uneven. It does remove most labels. All I have available at my laundry sink is cold water; it probably would have worked better soaking in warm water to start. The bottles are very slick when you pull them out, so watch it. I broke 2 just because they slipped out of my hands.

Also, when using Oxyclean, do not allow it to get inside the bottle. If you don't get every speck out, it can bleach and/or affect your wine.

All in all, soaking time excluded, the process took about the same amount of time actually handling the bottles as it takes me to scrape off the labels dry with a single edge razor blade, then wash the bottles in sanitizer.

The best thing about bottles is that once you prep them the first time, they are easier the next time, especially if you affix paper labels with milk, which come right off if warm water is run over them. Just don't let too many get out of your hands and never return home!


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## jswordy (Sep 6, 2012)

niall111 said:


> I believe my pink powder stuff MAY be Diversol? As described here:
> http://www.grapeandgrain.ca/info/cleanandsanitize.html
> (scroll down a page to the section on Diversol)
> 
> It's supposed to both clean AND sanitize? It says it requires a 20 minute soak though, which I definitely haven't been doing. (How have I not killed anyone with my wines yet?!) However, what if I used that in place of soap, as they suggest at the link above? Soak the bottles in a tub of hot water + diversol for an hour or two, maybe a couple pumps of the jet washer right in the tub, rinse and bottle?


 
Soak and use. If you resupply later, get Easy Clean or One Step (2 minute contact time).


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## Noontime (Sep 6, 2012)

niall111 said:


> I believe my pink powder stuff MAY be Diversol? As described here:
> http://www.grapeandgrain.ca/info/cleanandsanitize.html
> (scroll down a page to the section on Diversol)
> 
> It's supposed to both clean AND sanitize? It says it requires a 20 minute soak though, which I definitely haven't been doing. (How have I not killed anyone with my wines yet?!) However, what if I used that in place of soap, as they suggest at the link above? Soak the bottles in a tub of hot water + diversol for an hour or two, maybe a couple pumps of the jet washer right in the tub, rinse and bottle?



 I don't think you have to worry about harming anyone with your wines due to not cleaning them properly; no human pathogens can live in wine. Bad wine just makes it terrible to drink. However I'm sure any chemical cleaner that instructs to rinse after using probably shouldn't be in your finished wine.

As far as cleaners and sanitizers go, there are as many opinions as there are products. Surfactants in soap make it difficult to rinse and leave residue, caustic chemicals need to be rinsed, iodine stains, kmeta stinks... most new winemakers put way more emphasis on cleaning and sanitizing then they need to, but that's probably a good thing since more mistakes are made (and we all make mistakes no matter how experienced we are), and it is really important. Just remember that everything needs to be clean (free from dirt and foreign matter) and sanitized (not sterilized...that’s nearly impossible). Read the product instructions and follow them and you'll be just fine.


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## olusteebus (Sep 6, 2012)

I take a rubbermaid storage bin, fill it with bottles and then hot water and oxyclean. I let it sit overnight. The next day, I bottle brush each one, scrape the labels off with a piece of 1x2 board, scrub the outside with a scotch pad and rinse. I then dip in starsan, place them upside down in another sanitized storage bin ( I lean it so that the bottles will not fall over).


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## wvbrewer (Sep 6, 2012)

I agree with Noontime, Cleaning your bottles as you use them saves time.. That is what I do so I only have to sanitize before filling..


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## JohnT (Sep 6, 2012)

I would also recoment that you get one of these. They are great and shoot a jet of water directly to the back of the bottle.


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## TonyP (Sep 6, 2012)

I just bought this gadget; waiting for it to arrive. It fits on a drill and I'm hopeful I can clean bottles in seconds with some Easy Clean. Sometimes I sanitize bottles with Star San and sometimes K-meta, both in spray bottles. K-meta should not add meaningful SO2 once it dries. Either way, it's pretty quick - except for labels. I've gotten to use wine bottle tags instead of labels for the wine I drink and only put labels on what I give away.

On some other comments. I wouldn't use TSP because it contains chlorine and there's many other products (One Step, Easy Clean) that are safe. Based on the research I've done, the only Oxiclean to use is Oxiclean Free. Oxiclean Versitile is not pure.

No mention here on corks. I'm going to try a corkidor next time I bottle.


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## rocket man (Sep 6, 2012)

Here is a post from Poni and he made a bottle washer that washes and sanitizes a dozen bottles at a time. http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f19/bottling-day-video-pictures-30819/
That will save alot of time.


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## vacuumpumpman (Sep 6, 2012)

The bottle jet is a great tool - I have reconfigured it so I can use it also to santize as well, The bucket has the sulfite solution in it and it recirculates back using a 12 volt dc powered pump at approx 50 psi.
BTW - If I have to, I will soak my bottles using unscented oxyclean in warm -hot water and it really helps alot in removal of labels and cleaning.


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## Noontime (Sep 7, 2012)

vacuumpumpman said:


> The bottle jet is a great tool - I have reconfigured it so I can use it also to santize as well, The bucket has the sulfite solution in it and it recirculates back using a 12 volt dc powered pump at approx 50 psi.


 That's a great idea.


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