# Yellow Plum wine attempt



## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## Deezil (Aug 22, 2013)

I'd guess that theres between 40-50lbs of fruit there. 

How many gallons of juice/blended fruit did it yield?
3.5 - 4 gallons?

I'd probably add water to 5.5 gallons total
This will give you a half-gallon leeway for lees & end with a solid 5 gallons

Then adjust sugar & acidity

Or you could just strain a portion of the juice, for an SG reading, and skip water additions all together. 

I'll help you out, which ever way you wish to go


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## Stressbaby (Aug 22, 2013)

Rhyno,

As you note, those aren't Japanese plums (loquats). They look like Mirabelle plums.
Where are you located?

There are no hard and fast rules on water to fruit ratios. Some people here feel that straight juice is the way to go, and will use upwards of 10#/gallon wine. Others use as little as 2#/gallon. Personally, I like my wines somewhere in the middle, at 4-6#/gallon, and by doing that instead of straight juice I can get a little more wine from a given batch.

Manley is correct, except that if you take a reading on the straight juice and find that the pH is 2.8, you might want to make a water addition. That is probably not too likely, but I'm not sure.

Since you have a hydrometer, strain some of the juice now that it has been on the pectic for 24 hours, and get a SG reading and post back.

Do you have a way to check pH?


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 22, 2013)

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## Stressbaby (Aug 22, 2013)

You will need to add some sugar, the amount depends on whether you will use straight juice or whether you will add some water.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 23, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 23, 2013)

pH levels?? 

I hope that the sticks are not a waste of time and money.....


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 23, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 23, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 23, 2013)

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## Deezil (Aug 23, 2013)

You'll need to thin that out some, to bring the SG down to 1.090 ish or 71B wont be able to handle all the sugar

1116 would do a better job, but I honestly dont think you want this wine to be that high in alcohol.. It'll take longer, for it to calm down and be drinkable; I'd aim for 1.090 on that one too

2 yeasts will give you a more-complex finished wine than just one wine will, not a bad thing at all.. Those are two good yeasts, for the luck of the draw


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 23, 2013)

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## Deezil (Aug 23, 2013)

SG Reading should still be fairly accurate, just make sure that the hydrometer doesnt stick to anything (walls of the measuring vessel) and that theres not a large amount of bubbles clinging on to influence the reading

I would just take a reading, and guesstimate the % that you're over where you want to be, based on the volume of the must.. And add some water, but only add half of what you think you'll need, then remeasure.. Takes a bit of repetition, but its fast and you can dial it in

By calming down and becoming drinkable, I was speaking "down the line"; I meant that it will take longer for the wine's higher alcohol level to "settle in the back" where it doesnt taste like vodka but instead warms your chest.. Since it takes longer for the alcohol to balance, the acidity and sweetness will also take longer to adjust and find the right balance


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 24, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 24, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 24, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 24, 2013)

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## MustyAl (Aug 24, 2013)

I am sort of new to winemaking, hence this is my first comment. I am going to try and use the fruit that grows on my block of land( Western Australia), I will have a whole lot of dark plums coming up soon, so I hope they going to be good for this. I also have a couple of Fig trees, do figs make good wine?


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 25, 2013)

MustyAl said:


> I am sort of new to winemaking, hence this is my first comment. I am going to try and use the fruit that grows on my block of land( Western Australia), I will have a whole lot of dark plums coming up soon, so I hope they going to be good for this. I also have a couple of Fig trees, do figs make good wine?



I have never had Fig wine, but I accidentally stumbled across this recipe.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f45/fig-wine-recipe-39971/

Good luck, to ya....


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 25, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 25, 2013)

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## Stressbaby (Aug 25, 2013)

Good move on the bentonite IMHO


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 25, 2013)

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## vernsgal (Aug 25, 2013)

I always add my bentonite on day 3 and have not had any problems. No worries


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## vernsgal (Aug 25, 2013)

If you're going to set your PH on your must you'll have to add your acid blend 1st., otherwise your PH will change when it's added. A TA reading would probably be good at 7g/L or if you're going to set PH I would shoot for about 3.2-3.4. I am new at setting Ph and TA so I don't know how accurate this would be but for whites they're the basic numbers I go for.


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## 1ChuckGauthier (Aug 26, 2013)

I thought bentonite was used for clearing the wine, why would you use it before fermentation is complete? As of this date I have always allowed my wines to clear by themselves, usually about 6 months into the process and racked 2 or 3 times. Then f paks and backsweetening and so far my wines have been better than anything storebought. I add my sugar in small amounts cooked into simple syrup on the stove, then check #'s.......no jet fuel yet


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 26, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 26, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 30, 2013)

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## Deezil (Aug 30, 2013)

Oak suitable for winemaking is different that most you come across.. Not all oaks are the same - like American Red Oak will leave your wine smelling of cat urine; not really a good thing.

Most cooperages let the oak age outside for 2-3 years to air-cure, before working with it..

Long story short, its easier to buy the right oak at the store..
And I would caution doing things properly the first few times, so you know what you're aiming for when you go rumbling off the beaten path..

But we've all been known to try a thing or two, and we wont hold it against you


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 30, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 30, 2013)

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## Deezil (Aug 30, 2013)

RhynoMakingWineO said:


> It's still in the primary fermenter, for a few more days....
> 
> I put it into the secondary around 1.000?? Correct??
> 
> Thanks for the help...



Yessiree..


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 30, 2013)

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## seth8530 (Aug 30, 2013)

RhynoMakingWineO said:


> Oh...Cat Pi$$...I'd hate to make that mistake!!
> 
> What is the molecule or molecules for the CatPi$$ reaction? Does the fire or flame stop or start the chemical reaction?
> 
> ...



Just curious, which are you talking about having had in service for 10 years and then having prior use? How was it used?

When oak gets toasted it caramelizes sugars in the oak as well causes complex chemical reactions that give each kind of oak their unique characteristic flavours. 

It should not be way too surprising that certain kinds of oak have some rather unpleasant unique flavours. Thus may be the case with american red oak ( can not speak with experience. 

Untoasted lacks these caramelized sugars and also has its own profile that it will add to the wine. I can not promise that it would be pleasant. I find it safer to stick to documented wood sources. Also, not everything out in the wild that is wooden is safe to eat.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 30, 2013)

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## seth8530 (Aug 30, 2013)

Of course, I enjoy helping when I can.

Ahh thanks for the info, my advice is use oak staves or chips that are commercially available from beer and winemaking sites.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 31, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 31, 2013)

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## seth8530 (Aug 31, 2013)

RhynoMakingWineO said:


> So I went and checked on the Must and containers.
> 
> They are at 67 degrees and the fermentation has slowed, immensely. The fruit pieces aren't "churning" like they were earlier in the week. There are bubbles (slowly and very few) being released from the gross lees/sediment at the bottom, though.
> 
> ...



If you have something like fermaid O I would absolutely recommend adding some into the wine at this point. However, adding something like yeast energizer which is mainly DAP and vitamins may or may not help depending on what stage the yeasties are going through. 

I would recommend adding some energizer if that is all you have, just dont over do it. You do not want to leave too much left over for other things to eat.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 31, 2013)

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## Deezil (Aug 31, 2013)

RhynoMakingWineO said:


> So after all of that, is there really a difference that is gonna happen?



Some light reading

For the products you have, dose them per the instructions that they come with, as when used together they are rather 'complete' per-say.. But not as beneficial as some other nutrient blends on the market..


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 31, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Aug 31, 2013)

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## seth8530 (Aug 31, 2013)

Not a bad idea, keep us up to date.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 1, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 1, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 1, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 1, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 1, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 3, 2013)

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## wood1954 (Sep 3, 2013)

One thing i've learned is too let all the pulp float to the top and it will dry out a bit overnite. Then take a spoon and start taking it out of the bucket till you hit juice. do that two days in a row and then use a straining bag, lots easier and less messy.


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 3, 2013)

I am not sure which person posted info on Bentonite, either Turock are running wolf....maybe neither, but they said they added the Bentonite at fermentation...
I have done this with my last two batches..I got a healthy ferment and the wine cleared, are was clearing faster...I dont think I lost any color are flavor in the wine. both batches were excellent.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 3, 2013)

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## Loner (Sep 3, 2013)

If I remember correctly .. Not sure at my age .. They advised to add pectin up front and after the third day of active ferment you should add the bentonite. Something about pectin and bentonite work against each other so allow the pectin three days to so its work.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 3, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 4, 2013)

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## Wade E (Sep 4, 2013)

It really depends on the type oc fruit, strength oc glavor of the fruit, and #s the fruut came in with that eould determine if and how much to dilute. Personally I wouldnt really dilute a plum wine unless the numbers were way off!


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 4, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 6, 2013)

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## seth8530 (Sep 7, 2013)

I think you are worrying too much ( : Sit down, wine making is fun.


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## Stressbaby (Sep 7, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> I am not sure which person posted info on Bentonite, either Turock are running wolf....maybe neither, but they said they added the Bentonite at fermentation...
> I have done this with my last two batches..I got a healthy ferment and the wine cleared, are was clearing faster...I dont think I lost any color are flavor in the wine. both batches were excellent.



It was Turock, and I fully agree.
My last two batches I've done the same, bentonite in the primary on day 3. I've had nice even ferments and they have cleared faster.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 7, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 11, 2013)

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## Deezil (Sep 11, 2013)

It will be cloudy until it stops making CO2... It wont stop making CO2 until fermentation is finished (and then you have to get residual CO2 after that)... So dont expect it to clear, while still fermenting... If it starts clearing, then the wine stalled and actions need to be taken to get it going again.. So it not clearing = good signs.

66 degrees is on the cool side, not a bad thing - its just lengthening your fermentation, but that will also help to retain more aromatics and delicate flavors that high temp fermentations "blow out" (literally, with CO2) or transform into cooked-sort of flavors..

Edit: Err.. Said 66 at the top of your post - the ambient temp downstairs - but the radar gun reads 75.. Did you hug it on the way upstairs? 

4.0 pH is kind of high.. 7.0 is neutral, and most wines are in the 3.2 - 3.4 range.. Some, like this batch get as high as 4.0 and others come in at 2.8-2.9... But 3.2 - 3.4 is the sweet spot. I dont know if I would correct it mid-ferment, but maybe.. I'd let others weigh in on that and take the concensus then weigh it against your gut feeling... If you do add acid, add half of what you think you need, remeasure and add more - you DONT want to overshoot it, that much I promise you..

The "slime" that rose and sank, had CO2 attached to it, and when you disturbed it, it dislodged enough that that CO2 could carry the mass to the top - then when the gas dissipated, gravity said "Get over here!" something akin to Scorpion from Mortal Kombat  (bahahahaha, I just made a Mortal Kombat reference on a wine forum - shows what generation this guy is)

Sounds like it doing what its supposed to be doing


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Sep 11, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 1, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 6, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 6, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 7, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 7, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 7, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 7, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 7, 2013)

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## Stressbaby (Oct 7, 2013)

Rhyno,

To be honest, I am a little fearful that you bottled too soon. This wine is only 6 weeks old!

I could have missed it but I didn't see that you stabilized the wine. At a SG of 1.022 you still have considerable sugar in that wine and if it is cloudy, without stabilization, it is could very well continue to ferment. I can't see a G2 bottle holding the pressure.

If this were my wine, I would dump it all back in a carboy, make sure my sulfite levels were high enough, cover it up so it didn't get any light, and sit on my hands for another 4 months (rack 1-2 in between). Make the dragon blood if you want something to drink, you can drink that in 2-3 weeks.

Just my 2 cents.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 7, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 7, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 8, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 9, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 16, 2013)

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## Stressbaby (Oct 16, 2013)

Hi Rhyno,

Let's take a look at what you've got here...
You have a 6-8 week old wine which is not clear, still dropping sediment, with a sky-high SG, and which is not stabilized. 
The only way to know that fermentation is done is to find a stable, unchanged SG <1.000 over several days. However, looking back, you watered this down to 1.120 and now you are at 1.018. That is 13.4% ABV, well within the tolerance of 1116. In fact, in my view, your pic confirms; those little vertical dark lines in the top layer of lees are tracks made from CO2 bubbles coming up from within the lees. It is still fermenting.
And now you have "bottled" in G2 bottles.

Time to get back to basics. Working backwards, you can't assure it won't referment at the current SG without stabilizing; you can't stabilize until it is clear; it won't clear until it is done fermenting.
Again, my advice is to dump everything back in a carboy, make sure it is dosed with Kmeta (1/4t/5 gallons or 1 Campden/gallon if you have not dosed it recently), and sit on your hands for 60 days.


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## GreginND (Oct 16, 2013)

Thanks, Stressbaby. I was just going back to try to follow this from the beginning and give a reply. I agree with what you have said. But with all the adjustments early on I'm not sure we have a good idea about the alcohol. It looks like he started with 1.160 or somewhere around there. Another measurement after that was closer to 1.140 and then he added water to ~1.120. My guess is the alcohol is closer to ~15% but I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

My advice also - pour everything into a topped up carboy under air lock. Dose it with potassium metabisulfite (0.4 g per gallon or 1 campden tablet per gallon). Let it sit for a couple of months and then rack it off the sediments. Hopefully fermentation will be done by then. If there is still residual sugar (SG is 1.000 or higher) I would stabilize it with potassium sorbate and another dose of sulfite. Then wait EVEN LONGER (1-2 months) until it is absolutely clear and you know it is not fermenting. Then go ahead and bottle it.

And, Rhyno - those pH test strips are very inaccurate. I would not rely on them for exact pH. Regarding the acid, I guess I just would't worry about it. You did add some acid along the way and the plums have some acid already. So I would think your wine is in a perfectly fine range.


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## Stressbaby (Oct 16, 2013)

Greg,
You may be right about the ABV, I didn't go back to check to see whether the water additions were made before or after he pitched the yeast.

Rhyno, 
One more thing...we suggested pouring everything back into a carboy...however, I don't think you need to dump _*all *_of that sediment that you show in that last pic back into the carboy. It would be OK to get some of the fine lees just to be sure fermentation doesn't slow down, but you don't need the heavy sediment I see there. I have found when moving from primary to secondary, that if I'm a _little _sloppy about the fine lees that I get better finish to the fermentation in the secondary. Just my 2 cents.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 21, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 21, 2013)

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## CBell (Oct 22, 2013)

You added campden before fermentation. This prevents wild yeast and allows only the yeast strain you choose to ferment your wine. 

You need to add it again when fermentation is done to stabilize the wine. So, if you have not added it since before fermentation, you need to add it again.


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## CBell (Oct 22, 2013)

Once you do that, you have GOT to leave this wine alone. Put it in a corner and forget about it for a few months. I just read through this entire thread, and I know that this is an exciting new hobby for you, and I'm glad you're so excited, but you NEED to get out of your own way. It seems as though you need to be doing something to the wine every few days or you get antsy. You need to just be patient and not touch the wine for at LEAST a month.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Oct 22, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Nov 16, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Nov 16, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Nov 16, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Nov 16, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Nov 21, 2013)

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## aronmatt3 (Nov 23, 2013)

Ok, if you do not have anything to check pH, then you should have as it will help in many ways.


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## RhynoMakingWineO (Dec 2, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Dec 2, 2013)

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## RhynoMakingWineO (Dec 2, 2013)

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