# Gardening



## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

Who else here gardens? Has anyone else been filled with excitement and joy this week when they checked their mailbox and found gardening catalogs waiting? 
I'm doing the happy dance and I can't wait.

I do raised bed gardening here. We are right smack dab in the middle of an urban ghetto. It may not look pretty but we have plently of tomatoes, herbs, peppers, and asparagus each year.

What are you going to plant this year?
I try to go with all heirlooms where I can get away with it.
Last year the paprika pepper, pasilla bajio pepper, and criolla de cocina pepper all did really well, so I'm definitely doing those again.
And if you like little grape tomatoes this one just would not quit. I think it grew to about 15 feet long and kept producing just ridiculous amounts of tomatoes. And they tasted like sunshine. 

Well, I'd love to stay and chat, but now I'm off to order some seeds.


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## JohnT (Jan 13, 2014)

Jeri, 

I am from NJ (the garden state).

I used to have (in my last house) a huge garden. Since then, I have moved to an area teaming with "Jersey Deer". These are a special breed of deer that not only eat your garden down to nothing, They will also have you "whacked" if you complain about it. 

I now do everything in Earthboxes on my deck. This is a very good system and have grown tomatoes, peppers, herbs, etc, with much success.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

I have a medium sized garden at home...with the usuall.
tomatoes,cucumbers,yellow squash,okra,4 kinds of peppers,onions,chives,string beans,zuchunni,carrots,radishes and sugar snaps.
I had two acres of virgin dirt, I fenced it off last year with cyclone fencing,
went back two weeks later with my tractor...no fence even the fence post were taken...
It will be the above garden this year.
I do have about 50 acres of blackberrys,about 10 muscadine vines, and a whole bunch of mustang grape vines.
I have a lemon tree,grapefruit,tangerine and a mandarin orange tree, all produces well.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 13, 2014)

Jericurl,
Take a look at my avatar.
This year no giant pumpkins, all veggie garden this year.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

jeri, not sure about where u live n texas, we had huge thunderstorms last night with about 2 inches of rain..today is suppose to be 70...
I start planting in the middle of Feb.


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## BernardSmith (Jan 13, 2014)

We grow sweet peppers, tomatoes, cucumbers, string beans, basil (the queen of herbs), chives, squash, melons, chard, kitchen herbs like mint, coriander, dill and we have some strawberries and raspberries and rhubarb, and a plum tree (an apple tree that has been too young to bear fruit ) and this year I am planning on planting some gooseberry bushes and some elderberry trees. No deer in our yard but we compete with ground hogs and rabbits. One ground hog lived under our deck but I think it moved to my neighbor's garden after I installed wire mesh around the vegetable plots..


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 13, 2014)

Funny you should mention this. I have raised beds too and was outside yesterday cleaning them up and pulling the fall tomatoes and cabbage. It was so beautiful outside!
I noticed I have a Pocket Gopher problem and he seems to really like my sweet onions. He ate about 30 of them. . So instead of turning the beds over, I had to set gopher traps. After that I went to Lowe's to get starter trays and they are already filled and resting under the grow light in the pump/green house. Lowe's has a new line of seeds this year form Seeds of Change that are 100% organic and many are heirlooms. 


Here's what in the trays so far. Some from Seeds of Change and some from Botanical Interests:

4 different tomatoes including San Marzano for sauces.
Mixed carrots
Blue Lake green beans
Jalepenos
Flat leaf parsley
Dill
Genovese basil
Spinach 
Kale

I still need to get a few others but we need to add 2 more beds first. Squash, cantelopes and cucs will be in those. 

What will you be growing? I need more peppers. Any suggestions? I want serranos for sure and will probably add some habeneros.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 13, 2014)

The last few years, my garden has been terrorized by a groundhog. I've found an effective way to keep the deer away (liquid fence). It helps that my neighbor doesn't do anything to keep the wildlife out of his garden. So they usually go around mine to get to his.  I can't seem to keep that darn groundhog away though and I'm inches away from buying a crossbow! You'll see me out there soon, late at night, looking like Bill Murray in Caddyshack. 

I grow tomatoes (usually three varieties), cukes, zukes, bell peppers, chili peppers, those little sweet peppers that come in red, yellow, and orange. Last year, I actually had reasonable success at growing silver queen corn. Only about five stalks, but it was enough. The kids really love that because 1) they love corn on the cob and 2) they think it's really cool having such tall stuff in the garden. May have to throw a couple sunflowers in there this year. 

I also grow basil, parsley, oregano, rosemary, cilantro, thyme and sage in pots on the deck.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

Lori thanks for the tip about lowes seeds...did not know that.
I made a deal with my neighbor> if i watered and fertilized her big fig tree if i could have the figs....yesterday i went to check on it..its getting buds.
gopher= pellet gun.


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

John, I would love to have a few Earthboxes. They are just so expensive I'd rather use my money for plants, seeds, and fertilizer.
One good thing about living in the ghetto, we don't get any deer around here, lol. My major pitas around here are the squirrels and dove. There are a lot of feral cats around as well, though I haven't seen them in my garden while it is growing. We do have a young tailless tortoiseshell female that has been hanging around the garden since it got cold. I'll let her hang around till she craps in my raised beds. Then I'll be trapping her and sending her on her way. Maybe. She is a tough little thing and manages to catch a dove or two every week and occasionally a squirrel. We have a large husky in the backyard but he is fenced out away from the garden. Apparently he and the little cat have already had a conversation or two because when she is in the yard he tends to give her a wide berth.

James, that is terrible. I would be livid. Do you have anywhere to put up any game cameras?
I'm in Abilene. We didn't get any rain, but the wind was absolutely terrible yesterday. I went outside to clean out my asparagus bed, but came back in shortly. High today is supposed to be around 65. I'll be attempting to clean out the beds today if I can get caught up on my indoor chores. I usually start planting mid February for greens and mid March to April for everything else.

Pumpkinman. Wow. I'd ask for your secrets but I'm pretty sure you'd have to kill me afterwards. 

Lori,
We had a huge garden last year and it got a little overwhelming. We grew:
orange thyme, lemon thyme, rosemary, oregano, 3 different kinds of basil, lavender, chives, marjoram, walking onions, chocolate-sweet-spear-and grapefruit mints, catnip, borage, bee balm, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple of herbs. Oh and sage.

eta: The rosemary, sage, and thymes will come back. I just let the basil go to seed so I'm sure it will come back up. You can't kill mint. Oh, and we also have a small bed dedicated to horseradish, so that'll be coming up any day now if these temps stay warm.
Last year I had San Marzano, roma, a couple of middle eastern tomatoes, cherokee purple, the little yellow one I linked above, Mr Stipey, and Bison tomatoes.
I'm fairly certain this year I will go with Bison, Roma, and the chinese yellow one. The cherokee purple was hands down the best tasting, but I've found it to be a little fussy here. It is also not a fan of the summer temps so I spent 3 months keeping it alive for about 8 tomatoes that put on in September. Really not worth my time and effort.
For peppers, do you guys get Bonnie Plants down there at Home Depot and Lowe's? Get one of their cowhorn pepper plants. Awesome taste and moderate heat. They go like gangbusters all season long. By far our most prolific pepper plant. You can't go wrong with one of them. We will get another one this year and this will be our 4th year to have them. I'll also get more of the peppers I listed above, a habanero, cayenne, and a green chile pepper (likely a Big Jim), and I'm thinking of trying a black hungarian pepper. It's supposed to be similar to a jalapeno.
I'll also be growing lettuce and spinach until it gets too hot to produce.

Last year I tried okra, squash, and cucumbers. Again. I think it's time to face facts and realize I cannot grow them. I don't understand how the rest of my garden just goes nuts but these three plants are my kryptonite. I think I got two piddly little squash and maybe a dozen okra. The cucumber plants pretty much gave me the finger from the get go and did nothing at all.


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## reefman (Jan 13, 2014)

Me too! Tomatoes, cucumbers (for making sour pickles), egg plant. string beans, yellow squash, zuccini. 
Plus, I started 10 Niagara Grape vines, and 4 muscadine grape vines. Put up a fence to keep the deer our (helps that my neighbor feeds them). Ground hog has not found the garden yet, he's fixated with gaining access under my shed, but I have him foiled for now.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 13, 2014)

Part of my business was analyzing soil test reports and designing fertilizing programs for growers of all different levels. 
Soil biology is a passion of mine. If anyone needs help I'd be happy to help.
I can guarantee that I can recommend a few organic products that will give you amazing results!


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

Pulls up a chair, pen and paper in hand, listening expectantly....


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## grapeman (Jan 13, 2014)

jericurl if you are transplanting the cukes and squash (and maybe the okra too), try direct seeding them. They don't transplant all that well and will do a lot better direct from seed. For twenty some years I grew 60 acres of vegetables so know a couple things about veggies. I now get my gardening fix by visiting my brother who runs the farm now. That way I can have the pleasure of working with the veggies when I want without all the headaches and worry. Sort of like having Grandchildren instead of children - when you get tired of them you just leave and go home. LOL


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

I direct seeded last year instead of using transplants.

I just don't know why they hate me....lol


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## the_rayway (Jan 13, 2014)

We just moved into our house about a year and a half ago (two summers), and it's a pretty small yard. Last summer I tried the Square Foot Gardening thing, and here's what I had on the go:

3-4 types of Tomatoes, 5 types of hot peppers, 3 types of onions (which like Jeri's cukes, give me the finger. Every year.), peas, carrots, potatoes, beans, 3 types of beets, kale, spinach, lettuce, basil, basil, basil, 3 types of mint, bergamot, dill, oregano, parsley, thyme, cilantro, sage, chamomile, strawberries, monster rhubarb.

Last year I also got a start on my 'wine making stuff': 2 apricots, 2 cherries (tart), 3 haskaps, 2 blueberries.

In the next couple of years I'm going to get going on: Marquette grapes, raspberries (3 kinds), elderberries, hops, and possibly some high bush cranberries.

I also am part of a group called Fruit Share, where homeowners with excess fruit call us and we send volunteers out to pick the fruit. 1/3 to the homeowner (if they want it), 1/3 to the volunteers, and 1/3 to a community organization. I generally end up with several hundred pounds of apples each year from my neighbour too. 

I'm teaching my daughter to garden in a little 1'x1' box in our yard as well. She gets to pick out the seeds, and we check on them every day to see what they've done.


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 13, 2014)

Jericurl said:


> I think I got two piddly little squash and maybe a dozen okra. The cucumber plants pretty much gave me the finger from the get go and did nothing at all.



haha, my cucumbers did the same thing. Then stuck out their tongue. 
For the first time in about 20 years I had a crazy amount of yellow and zucchini squash. It got to the point i dreaded walking out to the garden. 

I'll be checking Lowe's regularly to see if they have those peppers. Sounds like my kind. Not too much heat. So far most of my hers have survived the winter except Basil and I still have loads of various lettuces. I guess Mr. ground hog doesn't like salad. 

How could I shoot this guy? He's so innocent looking?


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## reefman (Jan 13, 2014)

Maryland Groundhogs are really ugly, plus after I had to back filled no less than 20 holes burrowed under my shed, I will have no problem asking my neighbor to shoot him this year.
I was told that after you back fill the holes a few times, they give up and move somewhere else......NOT!!!!!


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

No mercy, Lori! No mercy!

Last year there was a squirrel on top of the fence post eyeing into my garden. I had just set out some new plants and my lettuce was starting to really get going. I made Manthing come out with a bb gun and shoot it. (I wanted him to use the shotgun as a warning to all others, but he refused)
POW! One shot and it caved it's little head in. I wanted to hang it on the fence, country style, but he wouldn't let me.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

Lori...close eyes pull trigger...I hate them.

You know people are starting to eat ginny pigs....

I started using the miracle grow soil last year, and my tomatoes and cucumbers went just crazy...I also used miracle grow liquid every 2 weeks like clock work.
I probably got 200 cucs out of 12 hills, and maybe that many tomatoes out of like 10 plants , that got up to about 6 feet.
I planted 4 kinds of tomatoes....heirloom,big boy/bonnie,and the black one.
all were excellent.


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

James, people have always eaten guinea pigs. It's just now starting to be heard of in the U.S. They are really very good.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

I just saw an article on it...Me being from Louisiana would eat it, I think I have eaten worst.
Kinda small, like a cornish hen is to a chicken.
I guess you have to raise your own..i do not see them for sale in the store yet...But i would certainly try it....Everyone says it taste like pork.
WHere did you try it at...Texas


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

I would imagine it wouldn't be much different than eating nutria, except a nutria is much bigger.

I had some when I was down in Yucatan a few years ago.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

I have eaten nutria many times and like it...
I am going to the amazon this summer and was thinking about going to machu picchu on the way home...maybe it will try it while there..
I kinda hope i dont like it....cause if i do..i will have them little suckers penned up everywhere....lol


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

Where did you go in the Yucatan. I go to honduras alot, specifically an island about 40 miles east from La Cieba .


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

I never had the opportunity to eat nutria when I lived in La.

I bet you will find some piggies on your trip. I had them when I visited Dzibilchaltun.
If you get a chance to visit Tulum, you should go.

I've never been to Machu Picchu but always wanted to go.

and I hear you about raising your own.
Manthing wants meat rabbits.
Right now I'm just trying to convince him that we need chickens.


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## Jericurl (Jan 13, 2014)

Do you go to Roatan?

eta: We went to Progresso and Merida


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

Been to Roatan many many times.
The island i go to is owned by a good friend ..its called the cay island, just south of guanja...to the east and south of roatan.

Roatan has a big yacht dock there, and sometimes we go there for supplies.
fuel, ice,beer, etc...if we run out.


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## Deezil (Jan 13, 2014)

I don't know how many noticed, but there was a few weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas where I was pretty much M.I.A. around here...

I was diving (deeply) in how organic farming, soil microbiology, plant biology, and nutrient breakdown/uptake, all work together. Anyone serious about their gardening, I would highly recommend picking up a few books - Teaming with Microbes, Teaming with Nutrients - both by Jeff Lowenfels, and Botany for Gardeners by Brian Capon. These books are eye-opening; I cant recommend them enough. I'm still in the process of reading them, and I know I will have to read them another time or two before I fully comprehend all the information within.

I dont know if I'll get my vegetable raised beds set up this year or not, I have other priorities first, so it depends on how far the dollars stretch, but I've found a lot of resources to get heirloom seeds and rarer versions of more common plants - chocolate mint, anyone?

Before the raised beds get built, I need to get my composting up-to-par, which is another topic entirely


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 13, 2014)

Deezil, If i lived where you lived I would be reading on it also, because there is only one thing i would be growing....

When growing up, I would have to clean the chicken pens, and had to put the stuff in the garden work it in with a hoe...as did the horse droppings, cow stuff, and all the stuff from cleaning vegetables, made a heck of a garden.
Today it is easy to get mulch,good soil,organic anything.


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## Deezil (Jan 13, 2014)

jamesngalveston said:


> When growing up, I would have to clean the chicken pens, and had to put the stuff in the garden work it in with a hoe...as did the horse droppings, cow stuff, and all the stuff from cleaning vegetables, made a heck of a garden.
> Today it is easy to get mulch,good soil,organic anything.



That method can work for quite a while - this is basically what built America, in the beginning - but in the long run (over several generations), the soil is actually being depleted rather than built-up.

No-till farming/gardening is a different beast. Granted, you have to till rather good that first time, to break the surface up and amend that top layer of soil.. But after you lay that first cover crop, theres no more tilling. 

In a no-till set-up, all that mess you got from the chicken pens, and the left over garden clippings, the grass clippings, the weeds you pulled, leftover food from the kitchen, leaves in the fall - it would all get composted. That compost would be worth too much to sell, and you'll never find that quality at and store - unless you 'know a guy' (you could do one better by taking the compost, adding more leaves and small amount of food scraps and running that all through a vermicomposting set-up). That compost, could be used in compost teas which are a way to increase microbial life in the soil; or can be used for top-dressing, which is the act of taking the compost itself and spreading it out on the ground or around the base of the important plants you're treating, and this increases the organic matter and nutrients available to the microbial life.

There's also a trick about never having bare soil... And down in a place like Texas, you might have to grow a lot of trees, to give the sun something to hit before it bakes the soil & ground cover.. But it's entirely do-able, it's just a lot of work.. You'd have to establish the trees (fruit, anyone?) with some clover/alfalfa/borage/vetch/rye/etc.. Probably in the fall..

If you read those books, you'll come to understand that what you're trying to 'feed' is the microbial life, not the plant. Plants feed on what is excreted from the microbial life, in the 'root zone' - very narrow area around each particular root. Plants excrete sugars, themselves, that attract this microbial life, and by controlling what sugars they excrete, the plant can control the amounts of different types of life, which directly influences what nutrients become available to the plant when that life dies, is consumed or excretes waste itself. 

Miracle Gro made its millions by skipping the step of feeding the microbial life, instead feeding the plant with nutrients that are already plant-ready. Sounds great, right? Maybe? Not really, when you realize that microbial life are what actually hold the nutrients in the soil, and when they become 'plant ready', they also become water-soluble.. You didn't hear about farming fertilizers leaching into our water supply until they started using water-soluble, plant-ready, lets-skip-the-microbial-action, products in a bottle. 

When you put this together, it shows a picture of chemical fertilizers trying to tell the plant what it needs instead of the plant telling the microbial life what it needs. How could we - who dose the liquid fertilizers - possibly know what a plant needs, better than it does itself?

It's all pretty interesting stuff..


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## Runningwolf (Jan 13, 2014)

Jericurl said:


> James, people have always eaten guinea pigs. It's just now starting to be heard of in the U.S. They are really very good.



I think GreginND talk about eating Guinea pigs. 

We do extensive gardening at home but it is mostly flowers with an extensive collection of Heath and heathers, day lilies, hostas, peonies and peony trees, and a host of other perennials. 

We got Christmas put away early and my wife has been busy cleaning out drawers and closets. She said her spring cleaning is nearly done. Once the weather breaks her entire awake time is spent outside in the gardens.


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan, that is a beautiful place! I wish my lawn looked that nice. 

Manely I am going to have to get that book. This is some interesting stuff that I need to learn.
I have been trying to give back to the garden any scraps the plants produce and if I use a fertilizer, it's organic and worm based. I bought a small worm composting system last winter and although they seem to be happy little guys, I am not getting any tea and very little finished compost. Maybe I need to start singing to them.


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## Deezil (Jan 13, 2014)

LoneStarLori said:


> Manley I am going to have to get that book. This is some interesting stuff that I need to learn.
> I have been trying to give back to the garden any scraps the plants produce and if I use a fertilizer, it's organic and worm based. I bought a small worm composting system last winter and although they seem to be happy little guys, I am not getting any tea and very little finished compost. Maybe I need to start singing to them.




The liquid that comes out of the worm composter is different from the 'compost tea' I referenced above.. That liquid can, though, be diluted into several gallons and applied in much the same way but it has different benefits.

Composting slows down in the winter, especially if the medium the worms are in, lowers in temperature. Make sure, on the flip side, that they dont get too hot in the summer and literally cook. Might want to make sure theres enough aeration, as most people tend to over-load their worm composters with too much food scraps and that'll throw the whole thing anaerobic which ends up killing off the worms in the end... I've yet to give it a go, but done lots of reading.


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## JohnT (Jan 14, 2014)

Dan, 

Your yard looks incredible! I could see myself spending all of my time out there!


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 14, 2014)

thanks deezil..i will look into all that you said.

runningwolf...that is outdoor art....just beautiful.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 14, 2014)

JohnT said:


> Dan,
> 
> Your yard looks incredible! I could see myself spending all of my time out there!



It's always revolving. If my wife runs out of space she'll completely tare out a garden keep parts of favorite plants and start all over. In the last 8 years there were two summers when I gave away three truck and trailer loads of day-lilies.

It's always a debate who spends more money, me on wine or her in the gardens. It's tough going to a decent nursery and not dumping $150 - $300.

This is the trailer loaded up while the truck is being filled.


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## Jericurl (Jan 14, 2014)

Oh, that garden is just fantastic! WOW!


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 14, 2014)

I noticed that my fall crops were not nearly as fruitful as the spring crops with the new "super dirt". So I ordered 500 Canadian night crawlers and 250 red wigglers today. I don't really know if the nutrients just got exhausted from the summer crop or if it was just the cooler weather of our fall. By cooler I am talking about 70º highs and 50º F. lows. 
Maybe the worms will ward off the gophers


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## drumlinridgewinery (Jan 14, 2014)

got into this whole crazy mess with to much produce. Couldnt give enough away. Its amazing what you can grow if you feed it. I like to use 2 year old chicken manure that is turned twice yearly. On the 4th turn it is dumped on the garden in the fall and the chickens are let loose to turn it into the soil. Still eating fresh onions, carrots, and potatoes. Have enough peppers, green beans, peas, corn, spinach, stewed tomatoes, and broccolli either frozen or canned to last till mid summer. The veggies go great with our home raised chickens, beef, and pork. 

Welcome to the homestead


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## ckvchestnut (Jan 14, 2014)

Well as I read through your posts an go "I grow that and that..." Hehe I'm not going to repeat a long list of veggies etc! But I will say thy we do grow hops an they are quite easy to grow an hubby uses to in his beer and it is quite proliferating so we don't use all our harvest so I just freeze them in ziplocks to use over winter. 

I will be definitely growing blackberries this year and maybe some haskaps and definitely cherries. Also Marquette grapes. Don't have too many issues with critters as I have a large dog guarding everything for the most part and a hubby with a shotgun. Mainly for groundhogs as we can't have them digging holes and having horses breaking legs in them!


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## Jericurl (Jan 19, 2014)

I think I may be too old for this!

Thank goodness i"m off tomorrow because I'm not sure I'll be able to move.

Today we raked out our asparagus bed and the driveway. The bed runs beside our driveway and it's 40ft by 3 ft. We scratched up the soil on the surface, and put down fertilizer and a wee bit more soil to compensate for wash off/compaction, etc. 
Every year we put down cardboard in the garden walkways and the driveway, then cover them with mulch. Earthworms love cardboard, we aren't disturbing the soil, the cardboard and mulch eventually breakdown, we have zero weeding (seriously, no weeding at all) and we've improved the soil with only a minimal amount of effort. We get the cardboard and mulch for free which is also a plus.

We also went to Sam's club and got one of their heavy duty metal shelving units, then went to Lowe's and got a couple of fluorescent light fixtures/bulbs for me to start some seeds this week.
It's almost time!!


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 19, 2014)

Jericurl said:


> Today we raked out our asparagus bed and the driveway. The bed runs beside our driveway and it's 40ft by 3 ft. We scratched up the soil on the surface, and put down fertilizer and a wee bit more soil to compensate for wash off/compaction, etc. It's almost time!!



I turned over my box beds today. It was SO beautiful here!

Jeri I'm curious. Last year I planted 6 Asparagus plants in my boxes. I have never grown it before but I understand they don't really produce till the 2nd or 3rd year. Over the summer they grew tall and looked a lot like Dill. I cut them back periodically and this winter, they got very dry like most weeds. 
What I did last week was cut them down to about 8" and then worked the dried stems into the soil today. 
I know I am going to have to move them because they are taking up too much valuable box space.So I'm wondering if that is safe and is there anything I should be doing to them? I just kind of went with intuition on this by cutting them back.


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## bchilders (Jan 19, 2014)

I spent the last 4 years building up a small urban raised veggie and herb garden and now we have moved and I have to start over.


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 19, 2014)

bchilders said:


> I spent the last 4 years building up a small urban raised veggie and herb garden and now we have moved and I have to start over.



That was beautiful. You have some really nice looking squash plants.
It's sad to see all the hard work going to a new owner who may not even care to garden.


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## the_rayway (Jan 19, 2014)

My friend and I are doing a girl's night in next weekend: take-away, gardening catalogs, drafting pencils and diagrams, canning books, etc. And wine of course!

I'm so looking forward to it, and to getting my seed order in! Then it's just hurry up and wait.


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## Jericurl (Jan 19, 2014)

Raelene I got my seed order in on Friday. Now I'm just waiting for my little pots to get here and then I'll be in business!

Lori, we let our asparagus die down completely in the fall/winter, then cut the stalks off a couple of inches about the ground. We do cut ours back usually when they get over my head, though this last year a couple went taller than Manthing and he's 6ft 2. You don't want to do it too much but we haven't noticed a problem doing it once or twice a season.

I've heard that asparagus do not like to be moved once they are established but we bought two year old crowns our first year and planted them. They did fine so I don't know how true it is about moving them.
We harvested nothing the first year, about 10 spears the second year and last year we picked continually for about two months or so. We planted forty crowns and if we had the room, I'd plant at least forty more.

They are heavy feeders and require a potassium fertilizer twice a year. Scratch down lightly in the bed, apply fertilizer then water well.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 20, 2014)

Jericurl,

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I didn't want to bore anyone, but here it goes.

Just an FYI regarding the cardboard, it will breakdown, and the worms will help to process it much like the paper bedding used in some home worm farms, what you need to be careful of is the amount of nitrogen used up (from the soil) to break it down, the same thing goes for mulch used in flower beds, it is very pretty and helps to keep the moisture in during the spring and summer and the keeps the frost from damaging roots in the winter in cooler climates, but as it breaks down its "steals" nitrogen from the soil.
The good news is that most generic fertilizers contain some level of nitrogen, which will help to replace what is being used.

Do we all know how to pick out a fertilizer, how to tell what level of nutrients it contains the NPK? 
Knowing this is extremely important, plants have different nutrient needs during different growth phases, for instance, during the initial growth phase, seedlings need not only nitrogen for green growth, but phosphorous for root development, cell division and development of new tissue, and Potassium aids in the uptake and movement of other nutrients in the plant, and so on, what is lacking are other vital micro and macro nutrients such as Calcium, Magnesium, Boron, Sulfur, Iron, Copper, Manganese, Zinc just to name a handful.

Most generic fertilizers only worry about providing the NPK - Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium, think Miracle Grow, this can work very well producing big plants at the expense of the root system and the soil biology as a whole.

With a little work you can have great soil that will produce for you without having to go totally organic if you choose.

Your geographical location will give a picture of what your soil is like, clay, loam, sandy loam and so on. 
If you are like most gardeners, you will have added some compost to the soil over the years, this will have changed the soil structure, if you till or have had the garden sub soiled, this will have changed it dramatically as well.

The only way to find out exactly what your soil composition is, and what you need to balance your nutrients is to send a sample in to be tested/analyzed. 
Spring is just around the corner, a simple $30.00 test can lead to the best gardening season that you've ever had, once your soil is balanced, you will need much less fertilizers.

Most of us fall into the habit of thinking that we are fertilizing plants. Except for foliar fertilizer, we do not fertilize plants… we fertilize soil. Because of this, soil chemistry will determine how much of the applied nutrients the plants will be able to take up.

After reading hundreds of soil test report results and countless tissue test results, we have a clear picture of which nutrients are used up the fastest, during key growth phases and how certain plants react/respond to calculated applications of these nutrients.

I won't go into the more complicated topics such as how an unbalanced nutrients can lead to nutrients being locked up and effecting the nutrient uptake, each nutrient is dependent upon other nutrients which can have a major impact on everything from yields to plant health, disease resistance, pest resistance and more.

Ok, if you are still awake after that and still have some interest, let me know, it is difficult to try to put all of this info into a sequential order that will make sense without it becoming overwhelming.

This is part of what I did to help competitive growers become successful, but we also helped Greens keepers (golf courses), nurseries, landscapers, and small farms get the most out of their applications, their lively hood depended on it.


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## reefman (Jan 20, 2014)

drumlinridgewinery said:


> got into this whole crazy mess with to much produce. Couldnt give enough away. Its amazing what you can grow if you feed it. I like to use 2 year old chicken manure that is turned twice yearly. On the 4th turn it is dumped on the garden in the fall and the chickens are let loose to turn it into the soil. Still eating fresh onions, carrots, and potatoes. Have enough peppers, green beans, peas, corn, spinach, stewed tomatoes, and broccolli either frozen or canned to last till mid summer. The veggies go great with our home raised chickens, beef, and pork.
> 
> Welcome to the homestead


what's your trick to getting such great looking carrots? I've never had success with them.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 20, 2014)

If i cant eat it, I dont grow it.. flowers out...veges,fruit,spices,herbs...all in.


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## Jericurl (Jan 20, 2014)

Pumpkinman,

Thank you, this is all fantastic information.

We used amended topsoil to fill in all our raised beds so I never really thought about having the soil tested. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure our county extension office will do it for free. It's not very far from Manthing's work so I may send him with a sample tomorrow.

I do try to keep track of what specific fertilizer needs most of my plants require, but I admit that I should keep better notes and an actual fertilizing schedule.
Last year we added alfalfa pellets (just rabbit food) to the raised beds as the guy at the extension office told us that they pretty much dissolve the moment they get wet and it adds plenty of nitrogen to the soil. I never thought about adding it under the cardboard/mulch for the walkways because I never really ...well, cared about the soil underneath since we weren't actually growing in it. I should probably start doing that though, since we could change the configuration of our garden at anytime. Rabbit food is cheap so it wouldn't really be an investment.

We save our eggshells and crush them, then add that and epsom salt to every hole we dig to plant our tomatoes and peppers in.

Holy crap I sound like a hippie.

I think I've been using "greener" methods to fertilize because I'm always afraid I will over do it with commercial methods and kill the plants.


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## bchilders (Jan 20, 2014)

LoneStarLori said:


> That was beautiful. You have some really nice looking squash plants.
> It's sad to see all the hard work going to a new owner who may not even care to garden.



I hope the new owners will take advantage of my hard work building up a compost pile and three large beds with irrigation. 

I am not too sad though. The new place is a 100 plus year old farm from the wife's family that we have started some grape vines. I have about 150 vines planted and more on order for the spring. Now that I live here it will be easier to focus on both the vineyard and a garden.


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes Pumpkinman, that was great information. You can chime in anytime with your knowledge of gardening and growing. I'm sure you didn't get to championship pumpkin status from Miracle gro.


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## GreginND (Jan 20, 2014)

I had a huge vegetable garden two years ago that was way over abundant. Unfortunately last year was pretty much a bust. I didn't get anything planted until July because of our cold wet spring. I'm hoping this year will be much better.

Here's my gardening blog with videos and pictures from a couple years ago.

http://greginnd.com/greggrows/


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## Rocky (Jan 20, 2014)

Very impressive video of your garden, Greg. Wow, would I like to have all those zucchini and not for the vegetable but for the flowers! If you have never done so, take the flowers, remove the stem, open the flower and insert a piece of your favorite cheese, like Asiago, Mozzarella, etc. and an anchovy if you like them. Mix up a batter similar to pancake batter and coat the stuffed flowers. Fry them in a little olive oil until golden brown and enjoy them with a white wine. Really great eating.

Also, I see you have a lot of beets. Do you eat the beet greens? They have a lot of nutrients and are very low calorie. I just steam them, add salt, pepper and garlic and a touch (1/3 T) of olive oil.


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## GreginND (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes, I eat the beet greens as much as I can. But I usually have way too much to eat. I also grow swiss chard which is essentially the same thing without the beet. I also juice my raw greens and vegetables a lot.


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## SmokeyMcBong (Jan 20, 2014)

hey all, im new here but i figured i chime in.

i do a lot of gardening. im a professional chef and growing food just seems to come with the territory. on top of my love for food, i am a medical cannabis patient with a license to grow my own medicine. 

i have an indoor grow area consisting of 3 separate light proof compartments. i like to start all my veggies and herbs in the indoor area for a while before planting season. starting under a pair of t-5 florescent bulbs along with a pair of 4 ft LED strips, moving up to a 400watt metal halide, then to a 1000watt high pressure sodium leaves me with full grown veggies to plant outside when the spring brakes. 

once its time to plant outside, i have some water timers and some leaching hose that i use to automatically water everyone at set times. things like tomatoes and peppers, i plant (full grown plants) in old plastic barrels and run them pretty much hydroponically. herbs usually go right into the ground and make up the most of what i grow. being a chef, i tend to use herbs very liberally in everything i cook. i have been contemplating trying some potatoes using the "old car tire" method of vertical gardening.

i also acquired a used Bonzai Rotating Hydroponic System (http://4hydroponics.com/site/bonzai-rotating-gardens) a few years ago but have never even put it together. my hope is to grow all my cooking herbs in it one day. cool contraption tho.

anyway, just figured id jump in lol. have a great day fellow gardeners!!


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 20, 2014)

hydro vegetables, yea rightttttttttttt...
lol
dont even need a license to grow hydro vegetables in colorado now.
I tried hydro tomatoes...did not like them as well as the ones in the ground, just tasted different.


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## SmokeyMcBong (Jan 20, 2014)

jamesngalveston said:


> hydro vegetables, yea rightttttttttttt...
> lol
> dont even need a license to grow hydro vegetables in colorado now.
> I tried hydro tomatoes...did not like them as well as the ones in the ground, just tasted different.



lol. Colorado is a beautiful place to be right now. i wasn't using vegetables as a cover up or anything. i grow very beautiful MJ too, got some great strains. i just happen to have a hydro set up going already and love to grow food so it made sense to start everything in the grow room. and again, because of the MJ growing, hydroponics is what im comfortable with. i don't grow aeroponically tho, so i do use soil. well, kinda. its peat/perlite/vermiculite soil-less soil.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 20, 2014)

Jericurl,
I've had to brow my veggies in containers for years, huge containers, my tomatoes would be planted in 20 gallon containers (think just about the size of half of a 55 gallon drum), and my peppers in 15 gallon containers. The tomato plants always grew to at least 6-7 feet tall and approx. 4 ft wide, loaded with tomatoes, the peppers would grow to approx 5-6 ft on average, we could easily harvest 15-25 huge bells per plant. The key was in the soil less mixture that I mixed up by hand, this is where many container growers go wrong, they want to pack the container full of a Miracle grow type potting soil and wonder why the plants don't produce massive yields.

Soil fills only a few needs in container culture. Among them are: Anchorage - A place for roots to extend, securing the plant and preventing it from toppling. Nutrient Retention - It must retain enough nutrients in available form to sustain plant systems. Gas Exchange - It must be sufficiently porous to allow air to move through the root system and by-product gasses to escape. Water - It must retain water enough in liquid and/or vapor form to sustain plants between waterings. Most plants can be grown without soil as long as we can provide air, nutrients, and water. I'll always opt to plant in a well balanced soil over containers, but when you can't at least you have the option of making the best possible soiless medium.
Soil compaction is the biggest culprit of failed container growing, poor drainage will lead to soil compaction, plants that die because of drainage problems either die of thirst because the roots have rotted and can no longer take up water, or they starve/"suffocate" because there is insufficient air at the root zone to insure normal water/nutrient uptake and root function. 
We can talk about a proven soiless medium for container growing if there is interest.
Anyway, I'll stop there in hopes that someone is still awake after reading this...lol
Jericurl, make sure that you get a complete soil test, that usually is a basic soil analysis, plus soluble salts, excess lime, nitrate-nitrogen, Zn, Mn, Fe, Cu, and B. Being able to see the CEC and nitrogen levels is just as important, unfortunately, over the years I've found that the soil tests, that the local extensions do are usually very inaccurate, and a lot of times are done by inexperienced interns, I highly recommend a testing facility such as A&L labs in Modesto California.
If you decide to get a soil test, I'd be happy to read it and make recommendations on balancing your soil, can you tell that I enjoy soil biology, and gardening in general...lol


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## reefman (Jan 20, 2014)

Pumpkinman,
I'm all ears. Would love some of your basic knowledge. My gardens have always been mediocre. Funny, because I have great success with my water gardens, but when it comes to veggies, they grow, but nothing near what you are describing.
Any help would be appreciated.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 20, 2014)

Doug,
The first thing that we would need is a soil test, from the results, I can tell you what you would need to do to amend your soil. How big an area do you garden? My garden has been 3000 sq feet for the past 9 years, not counting the containers, this year I am cutting back big time.
Let me know how you feel about this, I can recommend a testing facility, I usually use A&L labs in Modesto California, they are extremely thorough, and if all else fails, you can always talk to the agronomist.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 20, 2014)

all this talk about gardens, i went out and started my tiller today, and planned out and wired a drip system in.
sister and I thought we would do one acre this year...makes sense to me.
virgin soil, anything will grow the first year.


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## reefman (Jan 20, 2014)

Pumpkinman said:


> Doug,
> The first thing that we would need is a soil test, from the results, I can tell you what you would need to do to amend your soil. How big an area do you garden? My garden has been 3000 sq feet for the past 9 years, not counting the containers, this year I am cutting back big time.
> Let me know how you feel about this, I can recommend a testing facility, I usually use A&L labs in Modesto California, they are extremely thorough, and if all else fails, you can always talk to the agronomist.


Tom,
There is an A&L labs in Virgina, but I'm not sure if they are the same.
They do soil samples, and I sent them an email earlier to get the particulars.
I have about 750 sq. feet in my current garden with plans to expand.
I started about 15 grapevine cuttings this year, so they will expand my garden area somewhat. 
I have a compost pile in the backyard, and I use that to amend my garden soil. The local soil here is clay and sand. The house is only 7 years old, and the developer stripped off the top soil when he cleared the area, and didn't put much of it back.
I am assuming taking a soil sample in the winter is okay?


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## reefman (Jan 20, 2014)

jamesngalveston said:


> all this talk about gardens, i went out and started my tiller today, and planned out and wired a drip system in.
> sister and I thought we would do one acre this year...makes sense to me.
> virgin soil, anything will grow the first year.



James,
I got the snow blower out and prepped it for tomorrows big snow storm. Expecting 3 to 6 inches...maybe more. (Ok, maybe it's not a big storm, but around here that's significant)


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## Terry0220 (Jan 20, 2014)

Just a little FYI for starting seeds. Instead of buying those seed starter pots I now save my TP and papertowel rolls. Cut the TP ones in half, papertowels in either 3rds or 4ths. Make four little cuts on one side fold those over, tape or not. Place my potting soil in these with the seeds. When ready I just remove the tape and pop it all in the garden. The carboard breaks down, the roots go through the bottom and I have happy undesturbed little plants.


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## Julie (Jan 20, 2014)

Roflmao, Terry when I first read your post, I thought you were saving your Tp, not the Tp rolls. Mike says, well it would already be fertilized?     .


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 20, 2014)

LMAO Julie!!

Terry, reusing the TP rolls is perfect as long as the bottom isn't covered (I would tape a piece of cardboard to the bottom and remove it when transplanting, a healthy seedling will put out roots at an amazing rate, they can become root bound really fast.

Reefman, they are all independent labs, I've used A&L eastern labs in Virginia as well, overall I feel that A&L western labs in Modesto is the most consistent lab, the important part is to use the same lab over and over, different labs can have different testing methods, leading to very confusing results when comparing test results yr after yr.

We use to test in the spring to get a picture of what we needed to add to amend and balance the soil; we would test again in the fall after the last harvest to get a picture of which nutrients were being used the most during the season. 

What we really didn’t know what was happening in “real time” during the most important part of the growing season, between June –Sept, with this in mind, we started to take it one step further for the competitive and cash crop growers alike, we recommended tissue tests several times each season to get an exact picture of which nutrients the plants had depleted or which nutrients may be in excess within the plant tissue. 

I was surprised to see that the nutrient levels in the soil didn’t always mirror the levels that were in the plant tissue. What this meant to me was that as variables change: soil temps, growth stage, climate, fertilizers or nutrients applied, and so on, the plant’s nutrient requirements changed with it.
You might be thinking “ok, so what does this all mean, how do I use this info”?
We started using tissue test results as a tool to fine tune the amount of nutrients and fertilizers applied at key growth stages or to prepare for these growth stages during the season.

Even finding out that you don’t need to apply any fertilizers is a positive result.

Look at it this way, we know approximately when certain plants should be producing flowers and consequently, fruit, by sending a tissue sample to be analyzed, we could ensure that the plants had the proper nutrients, and proper levels to have a healthy reproductive stage and produce greater numbers of healthy fruit and veggies.

For the home gardener, soil tests should be enough to get your garden back into shape and grow healthy plants, without killing the soil biology with a ton of fertilizers.


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## drumlinridgewinery (Jan 20, 2014)

reefman said:


> what's your trick to getting such great looking carrots? I've never had success with them.



I never had much luck until we moved back to the country 5 yrs ago. we we have 18-24 inches of really good black topsoil. I start early planting them in the same row as radishes. Also covering the row with plywood strips 4-6inches wide and watering daily until I pull the boards away. Carrots germinate best in the dark. Pull the boards when the radishes are an inch or 2 tall. (3-4-days) When pulling the radishes in several weeks you can easily thin the carrots. We plant several kinds with the sugarsnax usually being the best. And let most stay in the ground until a good frost. This makes them sweeter. We also fertilize heavy with composted manure once during the growing season and again in the fall. Lots of work but I think is well worth it.

Grandma always said"you got to feed it, to eat it." She would say this as we young one where complaining while shoveling the manure around her large gardens.


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## Terry0220 (Jan 20, 2014)

Julie said:


> Roflmao, Terry when I first read your post, I thought you were saving your Tp, not the Tp rolls. Mike says, well it would already be fertilized?     .



LOL!!! Leave it to Mike to say that! Sorry to all if I wasn't clear. Yes it is the cardboard holders of Tp and papertowels that I use!

Pumpkinman,,yes I remove the tape if I used it and open the little flaps to allow the roots to spread freely in my garden. Sometimes they fold nicely other (most times) I need to tape to hold them until ready to plant in the garden. I also use an old cookie sheet to place them in or a kitty litter pan. That way I don't have water going everywhere when they get watered!


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## Terry0220 (Jan 20, 2014)

another thing I use,,especially for tiny seeds like carrots, is to glue it to UNUSED tp or papertowels, then place in the garden and cover. That way the seeds are where I put them and not scattered when covered by soil and water.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 21, 2014)

Has anyone used the cyber rain irrigation timers...
If so, are you happy with it...


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## knockabout (Jan 21, 2014)

Im in San Antonio. I already ordered tomatoes, still deciding on the eggplants and peppers this year. Just got the new drip irrigation system installed into my raised beds. LAst years the dreaded leaf footed bugs got the best of my tomatoes, tomatillos and made an attempt on my eggplant. How can I defeat the little destructors this year? I was thinking about letting a few million praying mantis and ladybugs loose. Any tips are appreciated, but they are too small to shoot.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 21, 2014)

.
.
We use to grow some huge carrots, to get them to grow and maintain a shape that looked like a carrot, we would get a very large piece of PVC 3-4 inch diameter, and at least a foot long, 2 ft was better, we would then cut it in half long ways and then either tape is back together, some guys screwed hinges in them, a bit overkill, but what ever floats yer boat, we'd dig a hole about a foot into our soil and put the PVC in at an angle, then we would fill it with screened soil from the garden, the reason for this is even a pebble will cause the carrots to splinter off at weird angles. We would direct seed the PVC with our chosen carrot seed and the carrots would grow very well in them.
The following is a picture of carrots grown directly in soil that wasn't screened, nor was the PVC used, the soda can is there for reference of their size.
.
..


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## the_rayway (Jan 21, 2014)

Wow. Those are some carrots!

I tried the 'Square Foot Gardening Method' last year and pretty good results, but still worry that my plants are lacking. All of my tomatoes got BER, and my onions didn't change size from the time I planted them to when I pulled them out. Little middle fingers waving all over the place! 

I have 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 vermiculite, and 1/3 mushroom manure (from the mushroom growing op here in the city). Any ideas on what I would need to up the nutrient content/biology Tom?


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 21, 2014)

BER is thought to be caused by lack of calcium, while this is true, more times than not, BER in maters is caused by uneven watering.
Raelene, can you get mycorrhiza in Canada? This is a game changer, it will help to create a colony of roots that will be enormous that will bring in more water and nutrients to your plants.
I would add some epsom salts to the mixture for the tomatoes for a little magnesium boost, and if you can get soluble kelp or seaweed, the plants love this, it is organic, packed with micro nutrients and natural growth hormones.
The size of the onion bulb is dependent upon the number and size of the green leaves or tops at the time of bulbing. For each leaf, there will be a ring of onion. The larger the leaf, the larger the ring will be when the carbohydrates from the leaves are transferred to the rings of the bulb. 
Onions need nitrogen, Every 2 to 3 weeks after planting, fertilize with ammonium sulfate (21-0-0) in alkaline soils, or calcium nitrate (15.5-0-0) in acidic soils. Sprinkle it on top of the original fertilizer strip at the rate of ½ cup per 10 feet of row. Water the onions after every application. Stop fertilizing when the onions start to bulb. 
make sure that you choose a type of onion that will do well in your area.
Raelene, I wish that you were in the states, I would ship you a package of goodies that would make your plants smile..lol...unfortunately, the shipping rates to Canada are unreal!


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## SmokeyMcBong (Jan 21, 2014)

Pumpkinman said:


> .
> .
> We use to grow some huge carrots, to get them to grow and maintain a shape that looked like a carrot, we would get a very large piece of PVC 3-4 inch diameter, and at least a foot long, 2 ft was better, we would then cut it in half long ways and then either tape is back together, some guys screwed hinges in them, a bit overkill, but what ever floats yer boat, we'd dig a hole about a foot into our soil and put the PVC in at an angle, then we would fill it with screened soil from the garden, the reason for this is even a pebble will cause the carrots to splinter off at weird angles. We would direct seed the PVC with our chosen carrot seed and the carrots would grow very well in them.
> The following is a picture of carrots grown directly in soil that wasn't screened, nor was the PVC used, the soda can is there for reference of their size.
> ...



Those are awesome carrots!! Looks kinda like orange ginger!!


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 21, 2014)

mycorrhiza, what is that, 
and what do i do with the seaweed..how is it applied.
I have access to thousands of pounds of it, free.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 21, 2014)

Do you James? WOW!
If it is fresh, make sure that it is rinsed very well, dry it and add it to your soil as an amendment. Then take as much as you can and dry it, if you have the means to make it into a powder, you can reconstitute it with water and foliar feed your plants at least once a week, it is amazing!

The following is taken from a presentation that I gave on Mycorrhiza few yrs back:

Mycorrhizae have been observed in fossils dating back 400 million years to about the time that higher plants began the gradual move from aquatic to terrestrial environments. Many scientists believe that the diverse range of plant species would have never occurred if it were not for Mycorrhizae. This fungus is wholly dependent upon relationships with higher plants and attaches itself to roots in order to obtain carbohydrates which the plant provides. In exchange, mycorrhizae perform numerous chores to protect the plant and encourage growth. Most importantly, it grows a complex network of fungal filament that can mine a far greater area of the soil based moisture and nutrients than a naked root. (up to 50 times more area). It also produces a complex by product known as "glomalin" that improves soil structure allowing greater movement of moisture the topsoil and into natural aquifers. 

Mycorrhizal soil can remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

Vegetation naturally extracts CO2 from the air but the amount extracted by plants with a mycorrhizal association jumps by 30% to 40%. This supply of carbohydrates enables mycorrhizae to grow and expand their hyphal network to access greater amounts of moisture and nutrients. It also releases “Glomalin”, a soil super glue that improves soil quality (aggregation), reduces water and wind erosion and improves rain infiltration into the soil. Well aggregated soils are a less desirable environment for disease organisms that prefer anaerobic conditions and more desirable for beneficial organisms which thrive under aerobic conditions.

Mycorrhiza protects plants from pests, diseases and other environmental conditions?

Protection is a critical part of the Plant / Mycorrhizae / Soil connection. 
To begin, mycorrhizae extract and supply di cult to access plant nutrients such as phosphorus, zinc, calcium, sulfur and copper. Like vitamins, these elements help plant’s with their own defense / immune system. Furthermore, mycorrhizae produce small storage sites in plant roots called “vesicles”; if an attacking root pathogen makes an entry point in the roots, these vesicles release a natural fungicide called “phenols” killing or suppressing the pest. 
Many of the ecosystems present in arid regions of the world have significant salt levels in the soils, and Soils particularly highly saline soils thrive due to their strong relationship with mycorrhizae. It is thought that the same enzymatic processes that can separate phosphorus from say, calcium or zinc can also separate potassium or sodium from chlorine. This neutralizes the salt and allows the plant access to water with lower saline levels. 

What are the cultural and environmental benefits to treating new plantings with Mycorrhiza? 

•	A reduction in fertilizer use, conversely, greater access to phosphorus, ammoniacal nitrogen, calcium, sulfur, zinc and other nutrients that play a major role in plant health and crop quality. 
•	Increase absorptive capacity of roots, longer periods between or shorter duration in irrigation schedules 
•	Improved plant growth and transplant success
•	Greater tolerance to salts
•	Better uniformity in crops 
•	Increased disease suppression 
•	Improved soil structure 
•	Increased populations of beneficial soil microorganisms


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## LoneStarLori (Jan 21, 2014)

Pumpkinman said:


> Do you James? WOW!
> If it is fresh, make sure that it is rinsed very well, dry it and add it to your soil as an amendment. Then take as much as you can and dry it, if you have the means to make it into a powder, you can reconstitute it with water and foliar feed your plants at least once a week, it is amazing!



I'm just a couple hundred miles down the coast from James. I have noticed there are different kinds of seaweed at different times of year. I knew it was good for gardens, but I didn't know if rinsing to get the salt out was all I needed to do. 
Are all seaweeds good for gardens? this time of year I am seeing this yellow stuff. At first I thought it was fishing line or part of a shrimpers net. I found a pic on the great WWW. Can I use this?

Thanks for all the great info. We are lucky to have such a knowledgeable garden wino on board. lol


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## Deezil (Jan 21, 2014)

Pumpkinman said:


> BER is thought to be caused by lack of calcium, while this is true, more times than not, BER in maters is caused by uneven watering.
> Raelene, can you get mycorrhiza in Canada? This is a game changer, it will help to create a colony of roots that will be enormous that will bring in more water and nutrients to your plants.
> I would add some epsom salts to the mixture for the tomatoes for a little magnesium boost, and if you can get soluble kelp or seaweed, the plants love this, it is organic, packed with micro nutrients and natural growth hormones.
> The size of the onion bulb is dependent upon the number and size of the green leaves or tops at the time of bulbing. For each leaf, there will be a ring of onion. The larger the leaf, the larger the ring will be when the carbohydrates from the leaves are transferred to the rings of the bulb.
> ...





Tom, you're making this all way too easy for them! 

Mycorrhizae are bacteria that live in the soil, pretty essential in organic farming. A game changer, indeed. 

If you dont want to use epsom salts on an almost-regular basis, you'll need to mix in some sort of agricultural lime or gypsum, and some kind of oyster/crab shell

Kelp is.. Kelp is a flippin miracle plant 

If you're harvesting your kelp yourself, you want brown kelp.. And you definitely want to rinse it.. then it can be composted, then mixed into hte soil... Or you can also dry it, break it into 'meal' and use it for other things like aerated compost/botanical teas to water with..


Looks like you guys are scoring, gettin Tom to open up so much


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## the_rayway (Jan 21, 2014)

Pumpkinman said:


> BER is thought to be caused by lack of calcium, while this is true, more times than not, BER in maters is caused by uneven watering.
> Raelene, can you get mycorrhiza in Canada? This is a game changer, it will help to create a colony of roots that will be enormous that will bring in more water and nutrients to your plants.
> I would add some epsom salts to the mixture for the tomatoes for a little magnesium boost, and if you can get soluble kelp or seaweed, the plants love this, it is organic, packed with micro nutrients and natural growth hormones.
> The size of the onion bulb is dependent upon the number and size of the green leaves or tops at the time of bulbing. For each leaf, there will be a ring of onion. The larger the leaf, the larger the ring will be when the carbohydrates from the leaves are transferred to the rings of the bulb.
> ...



Thanks Tom! I've copied this into my gardening log for future reference. I generally get one 'leaf' or maybe two from my onion sets. I'm guessing this is a bad thing...do you plant onions from seed? I don't think our growing season is long enough for that.

My girlfriend used the same onion sets as me (I gave her some of mine) and she had gigantic 8" onions! Grrr. As to watering the tomatoes - well, I can see how what we do would be considered 'uneven'. I'll have to work on that this year. 

Thanks for the info again! I'm looking forward to hearing more of your advice to all on this thread.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 21, 2014)

I usually start them in Dec or Jan at the latest, I nurse them under a grow light and a min temp of 74°, I'll transplant them in early may.


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## the_rayway (Jan 22, 2014)

Pumpkinman said:


> I usually start them in Dec or Jan at the latest, I nurse them under a grow light and a min temp of 74°, I'll transplant them in early may.



Ahhhh. I see!
It looks like the bacteria you mentioned might be available in our local hydroponics shops. I think I'll take a look during my night off this week. Then I can look into a grow light for seedlings too!


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## sour_grapes (Jan 22, 2014)

I am mostly pointing this out because this is a wine forum, but the "myco-" in "mycorrhiza" means that this is a fungus, not a bacterium. You know, from the same Kingdom (_fungi_) as our beloved yeasts (genus _Saccharomyces_)? The last -myces in _Saccharomyces_ has the same origin, the Greek word for mushroom.


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 22, 2014)

Yes, Mycorrhiza is a beneficial fungus.


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 22, 2014)

lori we have the saragossa grass..which is some type of seaweed..not sure if i want to get into hauling it....
going to use virgin soil here, so not a big worry about growing anything this year, nest year will be different..will have build the soil up then,


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 22, 2014)

James,
build up that soil slowly over the course of a few years, some folks add too much compost, manure, leaves or whatever at one time, the goal is to add just enough that you can incorporate it into your existing soil, some folks do a no till approach, this is the best scenario, but again, it takes years to build up. I tried to help one guy that added 10 inches of manure to his garden, he couldn't grow anything, the plants would take off like crazy, but they never produced any fruit or veggies, there was a nitrogen overload.
Over a 9 year period, I added approx. 110 yards of composted manure to a 3000 sq ft garden, some years I didn't add anything, I would see what my organic matter levels were on the soil test reports and go from there.
If I had the acreage that you are talking about, I'd bring in 20 or so yards of manure and compost it down until next spring and then add it.


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## grapeman (Jan 22, 2014)

james by virgin soil I assume you mean it hasn't had any crops on it for a number of years now. I don't think there are any truly virgin soils left in Texas as I am sure somebody at some time grew something on them. I also assume you plan on tilling in the grass or whatever is growing there. Yes as that breaks down it will provide some nutrients, mostly nitrogen and there should be some other nutrients available in the soil. You probably would still do good to get a soil test so you know what is in it. I would test for at least N-P-K or Nitrogen-Phosphorous and Potash(Potassium) along with Calcium and Magnesium. pH would also be provided. This will give you a baseline of available nutrients and the pH should be adjusted for the average crop needs, somewhere around 6.5 - 7.0 would be good for most crops. The soil test will let you know if your "virgin" soil has the basic requirements needed.

Also keep in mind that a lot of "virgin" soils may have a weed seed reserve lying in wait to germinate. Sometimes landowners get quite the surprise when they till a soil that hasn't been cropped in 30 years and are overrun with weeds. Just be prepared and you should enjoy a nice crop of veggies. I don't want to lecture you, just trying to give you a bit of advice as an Agronomist with a lifetime of experience growing crops commercially.

Tom gave you some very good advice and you would do good to follow it.


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## Deezil (Jan 22, 2014)

sour_grapes said:


> I am mostly pointing this out because this is a wine forum, but the "myco-" in "mycorrhiza" means that this is a fungus, not a bacterium. You know, from the same Kingdom (_fungi_) as our beloved yeasts (genus _Saccharomyces_)? The last -myces in _Saccharomyces_ has the same origin, the Greek word for mushroom.



Good catch; dunno where my head was.

There's actually two 'families' or what-have-you (always seem to reply to this thread when im not fully awake lol), of mycorrhizae.. Endo- & Ecto- ; basically meaning 'inside' and 'outside' the root, some have the ability to enter/grow through the root while others just grow around. 


Grapeman beat me to the punch of the 'virgin ground'; I'd be highly surprised if theres very many large tracts of land in the US that are still completely untouched, as far as agriculture goes. 

Pumpkinman was on-point, with building up the soils slowly. 

The object in all of this, is to build humus (HUE-mus), which is the final stage of composted organic material. When humus is attained in the garden/plot, because it wont break down any further, it's said that as long as environmental factors don't change drastically, that the humus should last longer than we will (centuries or more). 

It's role in the garden, is a bit of almost everything - it retains micro-films of moisture for the bacteria/fungi - even when the soil appears rather 'dry', enlarges the soil CEC - basically expanding the nutrient carrying capacity of the soil... It just doesnt really provide aeration to the soil, thats about all it's missing. 

You may notice (if you havent already, next time you look around) that Mother Nature doesn't plan empty dirt into what she's doing. To keep soil alive, to keep the bacteria and fungi going, they need plant roots to feed them; the soil also needs a break from the intensity of the sun because *most* of the life found in the soil is in the top 6-inches or so and if this dries out its like starting all over, almost.

Plant roots push out exudates - mostly sugars - that attract different soil bacteria and fungi; the plants can actually control the populations of the various soil bacteria/fungi by manipulating the amounts of the types of exudates it produces. This is how a plant feeds naturally. These bacteria and fungi will build up, based on the available exudates, then when predators come along, they simply lived out their life-cycle, or the plant switches the amounts of available foods, those larger, now-unsustainable populations will begin to decline. In this decline is decomposition, and this decomposition provides the plant-available nutrients. 

If, however, theres no roots, then theres nothing for which the soil life can feed on & it simply moves away (if it can) or dies off. Some of these bacteria and fungi will 'cyst' up, until the environmental conditions are more favorable and they'll become active again. Repeated die-offs/cystings can throw unbalance into the populations of various micro-organisms, causing a further unbalance in plant-available nutrients, and the process involved with making the missing nutrients more prevalent (hard to do when those micro-organisms died off in large numbers).

This is why, a few pages back, I suggested to James that he may have better luck trying to establish some fruit trees alongside his cover crops or other gardening ventures. Texas heat can fry just about anything, I'm sure, and most plants we consider valuable, wont be able to stand it. Trees are built to take abuse though, as rarely is there anything between them and the harshness of the sun. Anything less than a 'full-sun' plant, would do better in Texas, under some shade, as anything over 90-95F tends to shut-down the plants ability to breathe and grow. 

These trees would also supply a long-term source/home for beneficial bacteria and fungi, refuges of a sort. With the trees providing filtered sunlight to the plants below, this would enable those plants to be more vigorous and provide more for eating/composting/ground cover, but also larger root systems to spread-out the soil life, nutrients, and eventually aeration when those stronger roots decay. 




I could keep babbling but this probably already looks like a short essay..


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## corinth (Jan 22, 2014)

I am truly envious that so many of you have so much room to garden. I live in Southern California so space living in the city is limited so I do what I can with the space that I have. Yes, my wife and I have thought of moving some where with more room and the prices of homes are cheaper but our family is here so here we will stay.

My Father was a gardener so I was introduced to gardening a long time ago. Years later, as an educator, I went on a tour of some of Japans Universities where I was smitten by the beauty of the Japanese gardens.

Since I have some pretty good woodworking skills and gardening skills, I put together a Japanese garden. That being said, it has not been easy hiding my vegetables, fruit trees, grape vines and various flowers and other fruit bearing bushes but I have done pretty well as East meets West. 

I have also dabbled in Bonsai which is very complicated and over my head but I do the best I can. Does anyone out there involve themselves in the art of Bonsai? Deezil? are you game?

I still do a goodly amount of volunteering and am currently working on creating a meditation garden for a local school so the children can plant vegetables and learn about other things than the 3R's. They get so excited and thrilled to see their first radishes grow and when they get to harvest what they grow, they are so excited to take them home to show their parents.

I still love gardening and always will but now that I am in the "middle earlies." I have had to cut back as keeping track of when to plant, what needs what micronutrients at what time of year has become quite time consuming and just the physical requirements can be daunting.

Years ago, I did some traveling around the country and so many of you come from such fantastic states with such wondrous seasons and foliage-Wow!

Now that I have begun winemaking, All the skills I learned from teaching along with keeping logs, pages of notes, books from gardening will help me become a better winemaker.

"Fruit and Flower show the Magic of the mind-Luther Burbank"
Corinth


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## Deezil (Jan 22, 2014)

corinth said:


> I have also dabbled in Bonsai which is very complicated and over my head but I do the best I can. Does anyone out there involve themselves in the art of Bonsai? Deezil? are you game?



This is actually one of the next things I'll be learning about this summer-ish. If you've taken a look through my PNW Wine Garden thread, you'll see there's a few pictures of things I dont make wine from - Fuchsias. 

My grandpa, my mom's dad, was the major inspiration behind my green-thumb. Growing up, we'd go to Grandpa's house (Grandma lived there too, but Grandpa built it, so..) and behind the house was the Garden; tomatoes as 'big as your face' (when you're five), strawberries that filled your palm, pumpkins worthy of carving... cucumbers that you'd end up eating because Grandpa made you, after you broke it trying to use it as a sword. 

My mom, being the eldest, helped build the house and put in the garden - it rubbed off on her, and with me being the oldest and remembering the days pre-Autism, it rubbed off on me.. It's one of the last fragments of life I have left, from before it all went 'down the tubes' 

Grandpa's gone now; and all I have left is one last fuchsia that refuses to give up. 

So this year, I'll be getting some more starts - like I got some last year - and doing various things with them. One is attempting to bonzai, as it was something my Grandpa did in his later years, after they sold the house and bought another without such a large garden.. He also made fuchsia Standards (3ft trees), so I'll be trying my hand at that as well..

Successes and failures will be shared, in the PNW Wine Garden thread


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## jamesngalveston (Jan 22, 2014)

NO...all the advice is good advice...
This paticular land was never used to grow crops it was used as a pig pen for about 25 years...it was sausage factory in the early 1900s.
The soil is not compacted, and is very dark with some sand in it..
about 24 inches below the topsoil is about 2 foot of shell left over from when the gulf covered it.
i hit fresh water at about 4 feet.
I was going to do an acre, but after looking, I think i will do a lot less then and acre. and rotate every year.
I have free water, so im putting in a irrigation system.
Driving post and fence in for beans,cucumbers,tomatoes
I grew up pretty much eating out of a garden, and freezing what we didnt eat..
I think the overall size will be about will be about 100 feet by 150 feet.
Plan to do the normal...
plus another for watermelon,cantaloups,honeydew melons.
All ready have a huge herb garden.
I have access to all the free mulch i want, and all the seaweed i can haul.
I grew up on a farm, so i am pretty versed in growing food. just not with all the smarts as you guys.


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## corinth (Jan 23, 2014)

Deezil,
With all your knowledge, I think Bonsai would be a great addition. It takes a lot of reading and studying but I am convinced you and others would be very good at it--better than me.
The enthusiasts who dedicate themselves to the art of Bonsai are very well versed in the types of trees they choose based on the climate they live in.
They also are pretty hard core about their soil components and really know their fertilizers from the typical N-P-K to the secondary nutrients and the micronutrients. 
I am convinced that so many of you have so much skill in wine making, there is a definite carry-over effect. 
I am definitely learning and have killed plenty of small trees in my on-going education.
James: I think you said if you cannot eat it, you do not grow it. Well, there are small pomegranate trees with ripe pomegranates about 1/2 inch!
Lastly, though Bonsai is definitely an outdoor art form, there are plenty of indoor bonsai such as the Ficus benjamina and the Hawaiian umbrella plant.
As time passes, one can always do miniature bonsai. 
Thank You Deezil (Doumo arigato gozamashita)for sharing with us some very meaningful memories.
I know I am being sentimental but I think that fuscia has a lot of spiritual meaning to it as we all tend to our gardens and share with others what it harvests.
Sincerely,
ed


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## Runningwolf (Jan 23, 2014)

James, we never see pictures of all the things you talk about or of yourself.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 16, 2014)

decided to do three plots each about 30 x 45...one down, two to go..worried about the peacocks eating every thing.not real sure what they will and will not eat.
the fence rows you see are solid blackberry vines, i measured all of them today and theres about 1500 linear feet times two.
runningwolf...you never will see a picture of me....i do not like my picture taking at all. and I dont like taking pictures either..its kinda mundane to me.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 16, 2014)

Clarification for running wolf....I do not like taking pictures with my phone..because I can hardly see them ...I do like my dslr but I do not take with me all the time, probably be stolen the day i forget to hide under the seat, when parked somewhere.
we have a lot of car break ins here at the parking lots.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 16, 2014)

James that soil looks really nice. The big chain link gate is that to protect the garden or is that a separate cage? Those blackberries are insane. I had thorn-less ones that were growing like that and I tore them all out as they kept sending up shoots everywhere. What are you going to plant? I bet tomato's would grow like crazy there. By the way nice pictures.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 16, 2014)

Ditto on the crazy blackberry vines! They must really put out a huge crop!


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 16, 2014)

30 x 45...hmmm...you could fit one giant pumpkin plant.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 16, 2014)

the chain link is part of a dog kennel my sister runs out there...its part of an old one she does not use any longer.
I am going to start fencing monday are tuesday...I have 2 other areas like the one i tilled...i am tilling those this week also.

as said...I will plant just about all summer crops, and see what the peacocks eat are not eat...they will not go under a fence, and if they see anything that looks weird they want fly torwards it...i may get lucky.
so far we have found that they eat just about anything...they will not go anywhere around anything thats has stickers are thorns...
I do not like them, but there protected here..they are a complete nuisance.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 16, 2014)

Whoa...I thought these were your sisters pets. You mean these are wild birds? Are they aggressive towards humans. What about when they are breeding?

I think you should seriously take pumpkinman up on his pumpkin offer. I know nothing about them but I would think with your soil and high water table that might be a good thing. Next through in all the fish guts and everything you could feed those pumpkins your just might come up with a killer fruit. At the end of summer you could either donate or sell it or maybe make pumpkin wine.


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## the_rayway (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm attempting to sweet-talk Pumpkinman into sending me some of his giant pumpkin seeds. Here's my plan after it's full grown:
Canoeing anyone?


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 16, 2014)

in 1954 a head doctor owned property next to ours....he raised 2 pairs of peacocks...he closed...now in 2014 there is about 60...wild...
no one owns them, everyone feeds them, and they are just nuts.
galveston listed them as wild...meaning we cant eat them.
they eat on site, not smell.
they are not aggresive unless you have food in hand.
so far we have figured out they eat the following.
bread,chips,fritos,cat food,dog food,rice,all fruit, bell peppers..onions.
any kind of cookie, cake, are pie...raw are cooked meat, snakes,bugs,lizards.
almost anything that we eat, they eat.
they even eat hot peppers.
im going out tomorrow, will take some pics of feeding time.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 16, 2014)

That's cool! I think they're pretty. I heard they can be territorial. They will eat anything! Like chickens and other fowl they don't have tastebuds for sweet, salty, bitter or spice... I have some nasty egg eating chickens that someone told me to mix in cayenne pepper or hot sauce to some eggs to get them to stop. It didn't work and only made them want the eggs more! Lol now we are working on angled nests that roll the eggs into a trap so they can't get them - darned cannibals!


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## LoneStarLori (Feb 16, 2014)

jamesngalveston said:


> the fence rows you see are solid blackberry vines, i measured all of them today and theres about 1500 linear feet times two.


WOW! Those blackberries are looking good. It doesn't seem that the cold has affected them at all.
I can't wait to get my pickin' gloves on and head up your way.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 18, 2014)

they are just getting a few buds, to early to tell what kinda of crop..hope one like last year...


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

Raelene,
Someone small like you could fit into a pumpkin and row it....for me....I'd need a 2000 lb fruit and an outboard motor..LOL
I'll get the seeds out to you asap, I'll probably put them in a DVD case so that customs doesn't confiscate them....somewhere there is a customs agent that is growing competitively...lol


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

.
.
.
Here are a few pics to give you an idea of what we do:

My first or second year of prepping the soil, a clay based soil, I carted in 20 yards of organic matter, mostly manure and hay (which at the time I didn't realize would take a while to break down).

The next pic. is a Carolina Cross Watermelon, a small fruit in the world of giants, but big enough to take first place that year.

The next two pics are at the weigh off, one to show just how many people enter these pumpkins, and the second pic is the Winners Circle, both me and my mentor placed top 5, I believe 3rd and 4th, beating him by less than a pound.

The next picture is to show you how thick these pumpkins can get, this was taken after Halloween, I got tired of it being displayed in my front yard so I cut it up and put it in the compost pile.
.
.
.


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

These next Pictures are of the giant pumpkin regatta in Cooperstown, NY.

The first two show them cutting an opening in the pumpkin to create a place to sit, and the next is a young lady harvesting the seeds.

Next, a racer getting into character..lol, followed by a few "boats" being tested for buoyancy. 

The next images are of the actual regatta.

The last image is a carving done by a professional carver.
.
.
.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 18, 2014)

Tom, that hobby is way cool! My wife says no.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 18, 2014)

amazing, just amazing, how big was that watermelon


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

The watermelon was only 72.6 lbs, in 2006, this was a fairly decent size.....the current world record id over 350 lbs...LOL

Dan, the camaraderie is amazing, but I guess we have to be a tight group, who else would understand what in Gods name we were talking about ...lol


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## LoneStarLori (Feb 18, 2014)

Tom those are great pics. It looks like a pretty fun 'hobby'. I didn't realize people actually could sit in them and row away.


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

Yep, it was a ton of work, minimum of 40+ hrs a week managing the plants, but a lot of fun. And yes...lol.. the giants float!


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## the_rayway (Feb 18, 2014)

Tom, those pictures are fantastic! 

I guess I should get a good couple of truckloads of "Kurbis Gold" for this spring. Also, I've been slowly wading through the "Teaming with Nutrients" book and while the biology is totally over my head, I at least am grasping the basic concepts behind it.

Lol, Bryan keeps saying to me "what are you going to do with such a big pumpkin?" (apparently assuming it's going to get as big as yours, Tom!). All I say is "cut a little door and windows, and let the kids play!" Although, with the river right here, it would be tempting to make it into a tiny little boat for a teddy bear or something.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 18, 2014)

just noticed today..my roses are budding,the lemon is getting buds,the crackle birds are terrible, and the bull nettle is coming up....water temp is about 52... spring not far away.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 18, 2014)

Tom those pics are amazing I too had no idea we could use a pumpkin as a watercraft! I loved that pump ikon carving at the end! 

Wouldn't they need a long growing season? Min don't think it would have enough time to get big up here would have to be started indoors and then transferred out and hope that here are no late frosts in spring and no early ones that fall....

James - again jealous! Nothing but snow out here! I'll be so glad when my magnolia and forsythia bud out. I planted eastern redbuds last year but not sure if they will flower yet. The other cheery thing that blooms early spring is my flowering almond. All before leaf break.


Carolyn


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

To be honest, some of the biggest pumpkins have been grown in Canada! 
Here is a little history for the Canadians, the birthplace of Hockey, in Windsor, Nova Scotia at what has been the Dill's Farm, is also regarded as the birthplace of the Atlantic Giant strain of Giant pumpkins by Howard Dill, so for all you Canadians...it's all your fault that I got into that hobby...LOL!
These giant can put on between 20-50 lbs per night, no lie, it's incredible! They get put into cold frames in early may, by the end of Sept, early Oct they are done.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 18, 2014)

Wow that is astonishing!! There is no way to get those seeds up here or some cdn must be selling seeds? I know this ccbp people are pretty strict and the X-ray everything!


Carolyn


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

You can get Atlantic giants in Canada, the biggest problem is that most seeds that are found in stores or online are open pollinated, and really do not seem to grow more than 2-300 lbs, when you get them from a grower, we take a lot of care to make sure that we have pure controlled genetic crosses, we do not let the bees pollinate any of the competition fruit, we breed them for cell wall thickness, color, and based upon what both sides of the lineage has done several steps down the genetic history. We try to breed away imperfections such as dill rings caused by inferior wall thickness where the pumpkin basically splits under its own weight, color (there's nothing like a day glo orange fruit) and so on.
My kids use to get very embarrassed when it was pollinating day, I'd announce that dad was going to go have pumpkin sex...lol...yep, my kids wouldn't talk to me for days...and they begged me to NOT say a word to their friends...lol.

Believe it or not, every winter the growing clubs have auctions to support their weigh off payouts which can range from $1000.00 to $15000.00 for 1st place, I remember one year when the most sought after seed went for over $850.00....for one seed!
I refuse to sell mine, I got my first seeds for free so I give mine away for free as well.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 18, 2014)

Wow! Just never knew how deep giant pumpkin growing really went! Your passion is refreshing! So when you meant competition fruit you meant other flowers on the same pumpkin plants right not all the surrounding non-pumpkin plants as well? The pumpkin sex thing is funny! Sounds like something I would have done to my kids! They're too old now abs would just think it's funny their moms crazy lol


Carolyn


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

We will pollinate 3-6 females on one plant and then cull down to one per plant, this is where it becomes a crap shot, all of our eggs in one basket. Any fruit bound for competition is usually controlled, those that sell their fruit to buyers can allow 2 or three to grow per plant as they won't be competition fruit.
Most growers want to see the genetic "family" tree of each pumpkin before deciding if they will grow the seed.


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 18, 2014)

Ya that's what I thought. It's a gamble on which ones you pinch and which one you keep!


Carolyn


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 18, 2014)

garden plot 2 and 3, before tilling..i did manage to de gras and partially fence plot 1....today..


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## Pumpkinman (Feb 18, 2014)

Carolyn, we will take measurements over a 10 day period, the fastest is the keeper.


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## jamesngalveston (Feb 18, 2014)

thats not fair...maybe she can not read a measuring tape...
well its, 5 foot and 11 little marks...lol
and she will be metric and you will be standard us....


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## ckvchestnut (Feb 18, 2014)

Aha! Lol so in 10 days you could probably get a typical Halloween sized pumpkin I bet! I don't mean from pollination day or anything! 


Carolyn


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