# Valley Brew Vineyard!



## masta

Well I took the plunge today and ordered some grape vines. I have been thinking about it for a while and decided it was time to get some started.


Ordered 6 Cabernet Franc which are grafted to hardy northern root stock. Also ordered 6 Concord seedless grape vines for eating and making jelly!


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## smurfe

Where you do your shopping from? I am ready to get a few as well.


Smurfe


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## masta

Cab Franc from  [url]http://www.beer-wine.com/category_page.asp?categoryID=187&am p;sectionID=2[/url]


Concord from:  [url]http://www.starkbros.com/access?action=product&amp;productID =8324&amp;collection=0[/url]


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## Angell Wine

http://www.bobwellsnursery.com/


They have varieties for that are hardy for the south.


Real nice people and good service.*Edited by: Angell Wine *


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## pkcook

One nice thing about grapes, they are easy to propagate. When you prune, use the cuttings for new plants. I'm looking at the Cynthiana and the Cab Franc. Both, I'm told, are good candidates for Northern climates.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Some coincidence!
I, too, am ordering tomorrow. I'm really restricted to the really hardy 
northern hybrids developed for the far northern states. I have quite a few 
trees to clear from my vineyard-to-be, and soil improvement to do. It will 
be a labor of love, I think.

Looking to buy (reds) Frontenac, Landot Noir, Marechal-Foch, (whites) 
Frontenac Gris and Louise Swenson. Yield at most maybe a gallon per 
vine, I should put in about thirty plants for our needs.

I'll be ordering from Northeastern Vine Supply in Poulteney, VT
http://www.nevinesupply.com/

More to come later, I'm sure.


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## smurfe

pkcook said:


> One nice thing about grapes, they are easy to propagate. When you prune, use the cuttings for new plants. I'm looking at the Cynthiana and the Cab Franc. Both, I'm told, are good candidates for Northern climates.




I am looking at the Cynthiana as well for here in Louisiana, from what I had learned thus far, it is the only variety outside of a Muscadine that is disease resistant to Pierce Disease which is prevalent here. Any other variety will get some type of mildew disease and Pierce Disease here. Cynthiana makes some very very good wine. As close to Cabernet Sauvignon I will ever come close to. 


Smurfe


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## PolishWineP

Okay, I'm jealous of all of you!



I refuse to plant grapes until we move southward! I want to have as few things as possible tying us here, and grapes would certainly do that! 


But to all of you, congratulations and I look forward to living the _Grape Life, vinecariously!



_


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## jobe05

Im with you PWP, very jealous






I have enough room in my yard right now to throw in a couple of Muscadine vines (5 total). Im putting a 4 foot chain link fence around my yard in a year or so, and was thinking of taking the one side of the yard that gets the most sun and instead of butting in 6 foot post (2 feet of which will bein the ground), I was thinking of putting in 8 foot post so I can creat a Gazebo of sorts and plant some vines there. Has anyone experienced vines growing on a chain link fence? I don't see whu this wouldn't work. Then again, The most plants I could probably get would be a dozen...... Would it be worth it?


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## smurfe

jobe05 said:


> Im with you PWP, very jealous
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have enough room in my yard right now to throw in a couple of Muscadine vines (5 total). Im putting a 4 foot chain link fence around my yard in a year or so, and was thinking of taking the one side of the yard that gets the most sun and instead of butting in 6 foot post (2 feet of which will bein the ground), I was thinking of putting in 8 foot post so I can creat a Gazebo of sorts and plant some vines there. Has anyone experienced vines growing on a chain link fence? I don't see whu this wouldn't work. Then again, The most plants I could probably get would be a dozen...... Would it be worth it?




Thats how I was planning on planting a few to get started. The back portion of our future building site has a chain link fence, I am gonna put a couple vines there. I remember when I was young we had a fence row that had Concord vines all through it. There were literally hundreds of pounds of grapes produced along that fence row. I just want enough vines to be able to make 3-4 batches a year.


Smurfe






Smurfe


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## smurfe

pkcook said:


> One nice thing about grapes, they are easy to propagate. When you prune, use the cuttings for new plants. I'm looking at the Cynthiana and the Cab Franc. Both, I'm told, are good candidates for Northern climates.




From what I have read, the Norton/Cynthiana vine is very tough to propagate. Here is a link to the most recent article I read on this grape. The last paragraph was where I have read this. 


The Norton/Cynthiana is the grape I am most interested in. I have drank wines from Muscadine and Cynthiana and I prefer the Cynthiana hands down every time. It truly makes a great wine reminiscent of the Cabernet or the Merlot.


Smurfe


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## smurfe

PolishWineP said:


> Okay, I'm jealous of all of you!
> 
> 
> 
> I refuse to plant grapes until we move southward! I want to have as few things as possible tying us here, and grapes would certainly do that!
> 
> 
> But to all of you, congratulations and I look forward to living the _Grape Life, vinecariously!
> 
> 
> 
> _




All I can say is research the locations you want to move to closely if you wish to experience vineyard life. The climate and soil types can limit you. 


Where I live (South Louisiana) we have wonderful year round weather but the humidity makes any vines here prone to Downy Mildew and Pierces Disease. We do have a few vineyards around here that produce some fantastic wines. Most wines are either Muscadine or Blueberry. A couple vineyards produce the Cynthiana and the Blanc du Bois with great success. All of the vineyards are very close to me so they are of the same climate and soil type. North Louisiana is different in both aspects.


I would love to be able to grow Cabernet Sauvignon or Syrah or Merlot as these are my favorite wines but alas, even though I have mild year round weather, they will never survive the disease or mildew short of standing 24 hour guard over the vines with a constant attention paid to them. We do have a vineyard here that successfully grows Cabernet's but it is a very labor intensive feat for them. 


So, if you are fine with Muscadine, Norton or Blueberry wine, come on down, We love nice people and have plenty of things to do and hey, I need some local Vintner buddies!


Smurfe


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## rshosted

MASTA:

One thing I would suggest. I wanted a vinyard last summer, and ran to a local greenhouse that orders in a limited number of merlot, cab sav, and pinot (along with others) grapes. Since they were going fast. (read: very fast). I bought myself six plants. I knew I had the room in my yard, I just had to remove some pyrocantha. Till the dirt, put up some trellis, and plant the vines. 

Well, in retrospect (after renting a stump grinder and a tiller) I realized I should have read the first chapter in "Vines to Wines). They suggest if you want a vinyard spend the first year getting it ready and plant the next year. This would have been the best advice I could have gotten. 
I killed three of the plants and stunted the other three. I felt hurried and rushed, then a bit disapointed when it didn't work out like I had thought. 

So if you've already ordered some plants. Get out there and start pushing some dirt around.... you'll be glad you did. 

Good luck, make sure you take lots of pictures



(subtle hint)

*Edited by: rshosted *


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## NorthernWinos

FYI
Here is another great Site, especially interesting to Northern grape growers.
http://www.northernwinework.com/
The book Northern Winework by Tom Plocher and Bob Parke is wonderful, full of great information...Like From Vines to Wines by Jeff Cox, but for the North. Lists Northern varieties of grapes and good information on the styles of wines you will achieve from hardy grapes.
Grapes do grow in the North, just got to plant the right ones...."bury the tender...let the tough hang" Some extra care and limited varieties, but worth the effort.
I was able to buy some hard to find Louise Swenson vines from the above author last year, as well as some Baltic Amber vines. The above authors did extensive studies in Northern Canada, Northern Europe and China.
*Doesn't look like they are listing any vines for sale this year. Louise Swenson is a hard to find hardy white wine grape...if anyone finds a source, please share.


Another source for vines and hardy fruit trees is, 

 http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/
They are a small company specializing in organically grown fruit trees, some grape vines, and native fruit varieties. All are grown in Zone 3 in Northern New York State.The fruit trees I got from them are doing great, a bit smaller bare root trees, but transplant better, take off quicker. Good service...no 800# phone number and no credit cards, but the quality of their products are worth trying. They carry hard to find varieties and the prices are very reasonable.The packaging is great and shipped right on target for our zones planting dates...I highly recommend this company for bare root plants and trees.*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## masta

Excellent links everyone....Thanks


I know I have a lot of work to do to get ready for my vines but if our Winter weather continues like it has been I will be all set.


Today was beautiful 50 degrees and sunny so I got started on clearing the trees. I know this spot doesn't look like much but once I get it cleared out I will have full sun all day long.


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## NorthernWinos

Masta...beautiful area you are clearing...so nice to see bare ground and something green, your trees must be budding???
Full sun is essential to growing grapes...but...air movement is equally vital. Planting on hills seems to be the norm, as is open field situations.
This will be a fun Thread to follow, watching everyones plans turn into reality.Seems we all have healthy appetites in late winter as we scan the catalogs and WebSites looking for our future gardens.




Don't be too disappointed when your vines arrive and are mere rooted cuttings, they just need a little T.L.C. If possible try to buy 2 year old bare root or potted plants, a better chance of survival.
Enjoy your ventures.


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## pkcook

Smurfe,


Great article on the Norton. I'm going to locate some local growers to see what they recommend for this area. I only have room for a few plants and will likely stick with one breed.


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## pkcook

Just curious, what type of soil conditions do most grape vines need, ie. wet, dry (well drained), alkaline, acidic? My back yard seems to stay pretty wet, especially during the winter.


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## NorthernWinos

Here is a great little handbook that you can print up...page 2 has the first info you need to consider. It is from the U of Wisconsin, but good information for everyone.
http://cecommerce.uwex.edu/pdfs/A1656.PDF
Also being as you are in Ohio...here is your Ohioline Webpage from your local USDA pages.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/index.htmlGo to the 'Search' and type in grapes and go from there.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1423.html

Each State has a USDA site with agriculture information just suited to your area, most sites have info on growing grapes in that State. Like here is a handbook form another area of the country, good reading for everyone. 
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/resources/winegrape/
Lots of info on the Web...



Have fun!!!*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## pkcook

Thanks NW,


I've been to the ohioline.osu.edu site and it has quite a bit of info. I'll check out the others.


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## masta

Did some research and thinking about my grape vine selection and decided to cancel the Concord and go with 6 Traminette along with the Cabernet Franc.


Traminette: This Gewürztraminer hybrid produces beautiful amber grapes with low acidity for a smooth and lingering aftertaste. Produces wines of excellent quality, often spicy with a good sugar/acid balance. Disease resistant and hardy to -15° F. Ripens late September in Zone 5.


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## rshosted

Good for you. I'm glad to hear you might be giving up your life of jelly making.




This should give you more enjoyment of having a more popular wine.


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## masta

Last weekend my oldest boy hooked up the old man with his buddy who has a tree service and cleared out the area for the grape vines and also removed some large white pines trees. There will be plenty of sun now for growing grapes and other things, now I need to get a machine up here and dig up the ground. Lots of rocks so I don't even want to think about having to dig by hand!


Before...








After......











*Edited by: masta *


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## bilbo-in-maine

Very exciting Scott!





I'll post some photos at some point. I am still cutting trees, almost all red 
oaks with a few pines, and have two brushpiles the size of small houses that 
I still have to burn. But it is opening up. It is too expensive to have someone 
come in to pull stumps, or even grind them, so I'll cut them flush and leave 
them.

Soil test came back, I just need to raise ph a little and add magnesium. Vines 
in April!


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## jobe05

Masta: Hows the vineyard coming?


Any updated pics?


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## jobe05

Wow, look what a nice sunny spot you hace created.


Looks like a nice vinyard in the making.


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## masta

Update:


Well getting a machine to dig holes didn't happen so out came the shovel and large steel bar. After digging out many rocks and having to rearrange one row I finally was able to get the vines planted. I am using the blue grow tubes for this year and it should help keep the animals and kids away from my babies until they get established.


Next task is to set my poles and string up the wire. I looked closely at the Cab Franc and it looks like they might be starting to pop a few buds!





*Edited by: masta *


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## jobe05

Too funny.......


I must have seen your post and responded while you were editing it....


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## PolishWineP

Ah, picking rocks. A favorite pass time of farmers everywhere...






Looking good there, Scott!


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## masta

Plenty of rocks to be picked here in the Valley of Hope! Actually I was surprised when I was able to get 12 holes dug in a somewhat straight line.


Now we need more rain as it has been extremely dry for the past 3-4 months and we are in the first stage of a drought here in RI....not good for the end of April heading into summer.


Forecast is for rain this week and we need two straight days of light rain to soak the ground.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Very dry - same here Scott. Congratulations on getting your vines in the 
ground. I'm still waiting for delivery. I have some spotty grass coming up in 
the aisles, wires are up and everything is ready and waiting. Actually it is 
good to have to wait this long since we have dropped below freezing all this 
past week. With the forecast rain you mentioned, things will moderate. Let 
us know when you get bud break on your different varieties!
bill


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## masta

We are getting some well needed rain and after checking the vines yesterday bud break on the Cabernet Franc is imminent when the sun returns!


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## MedPretzel

Vernon is getting his "drink" too. Thank goodness, as he was looking quite parched after the long dry spell we were having. You can water all you want - it keeps the plants alive - but it's rain from the sky that makes them fllourish!


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## masta

MedPretzel said:


> You can water all you want - it keeps the plants alive - but it's rain from the sky that makes them flourish!




I totally agree....nuthin like the rain to bring life to your garden!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Unless it's like 3 inches of rain and 2 weeks of overcast, damp cool weather 
like New England has now. Watch for mildew if it warms up


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## PolishWineP

We've found the water we pump from our sump to be great for gardens!


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## djcoop

What's a sump?? Sorry, that's not a Texas word


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## grapeman

I bet the sump hole is full of water there in New England(a collection point for excess water that comes through the basementfoundation drains. How much water have all you New Englanders gotten. Up until today we only got about 4 inches from this storm, but today it really came down all day-probably another 2-3 inches. Now they say rain continuing through at least next Tuesday.


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## masta

All but one of myCabernet Francvines have reached bud break and took a few pics but it was tough getting a good shot down through the grow tubes.


We finally had some sun today which was welcome after a week of clouds and rain!


Cabernet Franc








Traminette


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## rgecaprock

Speaking of "sump"...I learned a Texas word "tump" Curtis says it all the time....as in "I tumped my red wine on the carpet"...Dj ever hear of that one. Sounds so country!!


Masta, sweet little plants!!! The soil looks pretty sandy!


Ramona


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## MedPretzel

sump-pump?


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## grapeman

Wow Masta, I'm impressed with you being able to take pictures down those little tubes. Are you using Blue X? I'm not going to use the tubes on all ot them. I will probaly try them on half and compare the growth rates.


Are you planning on making wines with the grapes from them in a few years? They should make an excellent wine. You could also use some of the berries as fruit packs to enhance the fruitiness of the wines-like Smurfe suggested elsewhere on this forum. 


I like seeing buds come to life after just lying there for months and enduring sub-freezing, if not sub-zero temps.


Send a little sun up here-we need it.


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## masta

Yes they are Blue X from Orchard Valley Supply and I bought them mainly to help protect the vines from the kids and dogs until they get established. For the small investment of the tubes I figured it was worth it.


The one vine that hasn't done anything yet I hope is just slow and it appears the buds are smaller than the others. What can I expect for total growth this year in height and when do you plan to remove yourtubes? 


The plan is to make wine from all of them in a few years and 1 carboy of red and 1 of white made from my own grapes would make me happy! 


One more day of sun for us then more rain this weekend



but next week looks better. I plan to get area around the vines cleaned up and hopefully get my trellis up. 


I will send the sun up your way to help dry things out!


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## grapeman

Masta, I'm still hoping for the sun! The weather is getting worse rather than better. Expecting thunderstorms with possible hail today, rain through at least next Monday. I'm glad the vines are on well drained soil!


I would be happy with three to four feet of growth this year. I already set the bamboo poles and tied off to the trellis wire. The vines I use the tubes on, I will leave themon all this growing season.


I would love to be able to grow some of the Cab Franc, but I'm afraid we are just beyond its range. I have to substitute Leon Millot for those. They are extremely vigorous growers so far - even the cuttings I'm rooting sprouted rooted sooner than other varieties.


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## grapeman

Masta,


Thanks to you the sun arrived this afternoon - well a little anyway. I guess you didn't want to send too much and cut yourself short - thanks for what you could spare.


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## Angell Wine

Looks like rough weather tonight for you Masta. If you could, Sent some rain back south.


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## PolishWineP

Here's wishing all of you with all that rain continue to hear the sump pumps working as they should. Ours crapped out on us last year and it was Ugly!



Thanks to all the flooding I've dealt with



I know how to get the water moved in a hurry! Simmer pumps are great to have in an emergency! And for all of you out there who don't know a sump from a simmer, may you never need this knowledge!


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## Angell Wine

Has much rain as you have gotten up north, have you had any problems with fungus yet ?


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## masta

No fungus among us yet! It has been beautiful this week mid 70's and dry and and my one vine that has not show bud break yet is going to make it. I removed the Blue X toady to take a close look and see a small bud on the bottom.






With only 12 vines total I would hate to have one not do anything.


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## bilbo-in-maine

Mildew comes with the heat. No heat here yet, with the Gulf of Maine water 
50 degrees at best and onshore winds most days, we are lucky to hit mid 
60's. Things are about to change this weekend and we'll finally get some of 
the warmth from the southwest that everyone else has. Heat is what all our 
plants need now - we've had all the water we needed and more. Maine isn't 
called Vacationland for nothing, though. In spite of the weather, tourists are 
arriving in droves. The fog IS picturesque and the coastal scenery hard to 
beat.


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## Angell Wine

<TABLE width="50%" border=1>
<T>
<TR>
<TH colSpan=2>
<H3>Table 1. Leaf wetness duration and temperature necessary for infection by the black rot fungus. </H3>
<TR>
<TH>Temperature
(degrees F) 
<TH>Hours of leaf wetness 
required for infection 
<TR>
<TH>
<TH>
<TR>
<TD>45 
<TD>No infection 
<TR>
<TD>50 
<TD>24 
<TR>
<TD>55 
<TD>12 
<TR>
<TD>60 
<TD>9 
<TR>
<TD>65 
<TD>8 
<TR>
<TD>70 
<TD>7 
<TR>
<TD>75 
<TD>7 
<TR>
<TD>80 
<TD>6 
<TR>
<TD>85 
<TD>9 
<TR>
<TD>90 
<TD>12 </TD></TR></T></TABLE>This is what I'm fighting right now. I'm having to irrigate already with highs in the 90's Last rain we had was during winestock.


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## masta

Damn rain is killing my vines and I decided to pull the tubes off the vines so they could dry out and hopefully survive!


My best Cab Franc vine:








A few shots of the Traminette who seem to be suffering the most from the rain and no airflow due to the the Blue-X tubes. I hope they will bounce back if we get some sun this week and no added moisture.


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## Angell Wine

send some rain down south please but not to far south like Houston.


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## grapeman

Angell Wine, I can try to send some rain down south if you need it. Another 4 inches in the last thre days. We have had rain 23 days out of the last 4 weeks. May set a new record for the wettest May on record in these parts(Northern NY).


Masta, I can sympathize with you. I'm still trying to set out the rest of my vines, but the rains won't stop. I ran a few more trellis wires today. I had to be careful where I stepped. If I got too close to the posts where I had dug the holes, I would sink in about a foot. I think you did the right thing in taking off the tubes for now to let more air in. I have not put any tubes on like I had been planning. One thing for sure, I don't need to worry about watering the garden yet!


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## bilbo-in-maine

Angell Wine - thanks for posting the black rot chart. Looks like the 70-80 
degree range is the most problematic.

I just arrived home today after picking up my 25 vines from western 
Vermont, and I have them all in the ground now. They were planted in a light 
rain. Like Appleman, we have had an awful lot of rain in the last month. Now 
we need the heat and sun, or vines will end up looking like Masta's. I only 
have wire fabric cages around mine to keep mice and deer from them. Grow 
tubes seem too much like hothouses... Good luck with talking some rain 
your way.





Bill


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## Angell Wine

Appleman : what ever you did; do it again. We finally got about 3/4 of an inch of rain this morning.


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## grapeman

Glad to be of service! We actually had a sunny day today!!!!


Hoooorrraaahhh


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## grapeman

Masta,


Have the vines responded to being uncovered yet? Hopefully you are getting a little less rain now. If not, have you tried applying some Bordeaux mixture? As long as the stem doesn't dry out, even if the leaves die back it should recover from adventitious buds. Good luck!


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## jobe05

Appleman, Where in upstate NY are you? We were in Syracuse last week for 8 days, cold (68ish) and rained every day except for 1 day! I didn't mind thought, it was a nice change from the dry spring that we have had here in NC, and fortunately I was able to bring some of that rain back here with me. It also reminded me why I moved out of NY years ago............ and the taxes......... gas prices............


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## grapeman

Jobe,


It is an unusually wet year all over NY and the NE this year. I'm near Plattsburgh, about 30 mile south of Canada- a few miles from Lake Champlain. Normally we are fairly dry this time of year. The Adirondacks block the rain and the storms divert to the north and south of us. Did you ever hear of Dannemora Prison? It is on the side of Dannemora mountain(maximum security). The mountain blocks the rain from us. This year though, the rains are coming from the east. Today it was sunny again, and then in three downpours, we got another inch or so of rain. By the way, Syracuse is about 3 hours west of us. So you like our taxes and gas prices? Everybody enjous paying extra to live here.


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## masta

Well after a few days of nice sunshine and no rain and the vines have responded well. They are looking much better and don't think the Blue-X tubes would work well at all in the Northeast since we have to deal with moisture issues even without the deluge we dealt with the last month.


A few pictures of the Traminette vines which were effected the most with the moisture issue. 















Picked these off the same vines and didn't see any on the Cab Franc.


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## grapeman

Good to see they are growing out again. I did a little checking on mildew susceptibility. The Traminette is rated as moderately susceptible or sensitive and the Cabernet Franc is rated as highly susceptible. Suprising that the Francs did better in that case. Is it definitely mildew or did the buds burn in the grow tubes, making them more sesceptible? We'll probably never know for sure, but they are on the road to recovery and looking much better.






By the way, the hand in the last picture should consider being a Hand Model!



(reference to George in one of the Seinfeld shows)


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## paubin

Hey Masta, I've been watching the weather and oh no!!! You guys are
getting flooded again! Hope with all the rain and temps in the 70's
mildew won't become an issue. Good luck and I hope all is OK with
Valley Brew vineyards.



Pete


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## Waldo

Might have to put umbrellas over each plant for a day or two. Seriously, looking good Masta and hope the vineyard does great. We are moving on huh ?


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## masta

Yes we have been getting drenched again...man this is getting old! Had a B-Day party for Ty yesterday and it went well despite the weather. Can only hope for some sun tomorrow to help dry things out but the upcoming week is not looking good with more heavy rain possible on Wednesday and next weekend.


If these vines survive through this year I think they could make it through anything.


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## rgecaprock

Speaking of Rain!!!


I've been in Richmond, Va.this past week visiting my sisters...and I'm still here. I have a standby ticket that I got from a Continental employee that my sister knows. I spent all day in the airport yesterday trying to get back to Texas and between the storms in Atlanta delaying and the oversold seats a standby seat was impossible. So here I am today still in Va. no flights out with any available seats not to mention the deluge we are getting. Looks like the same weather-wise tomorrow. I'm going to see if I can get on a flight tomorrow at 1 and 5 oclock to Houston......if not....oh well. Im having fun with my sisters, drinking lots of wine!!!!....Boss isn't too happy though ....oh well there too!!!.....Ramona


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## peterCooper

Ramona, I confused.
I thought you WERE the boss.

My wife says "if it's not in pants, it's the boss"










*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## rgecaprock

peterCooper,


The boss, as in the guy who pays my salary,,,,,9-5 Monday thru Friday.....lol. I was supposed to be back today and he doesn't understand stand-by ticket...since he is always in first class. Can't understand why I'm not there. If I can't leave tomorrow to be there on Wed. then he will probably send me a bus ticket or something....lol.


The boss with the pants is missing me!!!!!!


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## rgecaprock

About the rain!!!!! Now 3 days late getting back!!!


I just spent another day at the airport trying to get back to Texas, should have been home on Sunday. The weather has been terrible as I'm sure you weather watchers have seen the east coast and what is going on. Flights were cancelled so here I am again at my sisters. 


Ramona


Gotta get back to winemaking.....!!!!! and trying to catch up on the forum!!*Edited by: rgecaprock *


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## Angell Wine

Going through BBQ withdraws can be a hard thing to do. Our prayers are with any Texan who is in a foreign country.


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## Pepere

Ramona:


Rain, did you say rain?? If y'all remember what Masta went through last month ditto it here in Maryland. It's been raining off and on now for a week. 5" Sat. and Sun. and I'm not sure what we've had the last two days but travel in this area is down right hazerdous to your health. 


The Patuxent River IS over it's banks and claiming downtown Laurel Marylandand for all I know the Potomacmay have claimed a part of Alexandria Va by now. (I haven't seen the news this morning.) No sun until Friday is the prediction.


In those famous words of Noah: "What's a cubit??"


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## masta

We had two nice days of fairly warm weather and mostly sunny sky's which helped dry out things a bit. The vines are looking good dispute the abundance of rain and lack of sun.


I have some time off next week and will be putting up my trellis finally.*Edited by: masta *


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## paubin

I'm glad to hear all is well! Hopefuuly the next line of storms doesn't get ya to bad. Some picks of the trellis would be great.



Pete


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## Angell Wine

masta said:


> I have some time off next week and will be putting up my trellis finally.
> 
> 
> I figured you be putting up a boat ramp.


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## OldWino1

We got wet down I 95 also


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## grapeman

Masta,
Do you have any new pics of the vines-especially the Cab Franc?


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## masta

Took a few pics today of the vines and still fighting off the damn beetles who just don't seem to want to go away. 


Here is the tallest of the Cab Franc vines and the top wire is roughly 60 " high. The wire is called Supercoat and the black plastic coating is bonded to the 12.5 gage high tensile wire. A friend had a bunch extra from his grape vines and offer it to me so it was a great deal I couldn't pass up.








Yes the weeds and now almost small trees really grew back with vigor from the cleared area. This Cab Franc vine was stripped of all it's leaves by the beetles but has come back to continue growing.








These are the Traminette vines and they are doing ok but like the Cab Franc there is quite a difference in the height. Some vines are only two feet and a few are five feet high!









*Edited by: masta *


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## grapeman

Thanks for posting the pictures. This year seems to have been a challenge for most of the country. The Japanese Beetles were a real challenge it seems almost everywhere in the east. I'm tempted to try a few Cab Franc up here, but I'm afraid it may be a little too cold even laying them down. I'll monitor yours and see how they do- so far they look great in spite of everything with the weather and the insects. That wire looks like a good idea. I've noticed that the wind rubs the tender vines against the wire in places and damages the vine. That wire should help. You really had to work there to get your area cleared- it looks almost like the moon's surface with all the rocks.






Are the grapes ripening in your area yet so you can get any juice or do you have to do all kits?


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## bilbo-in-maine

Scott - I just returned from several weeks vacation to South Carolina and returned by way of the Finger Lakes to visit several wineries around Lake Keuka. I tasted some very good Cab Franc at all the places we visited and of course entertained the notion of trying to grow some for myself. Like Appleman said, we'll monitor how yours do for several years. You never know, if the climate indeed is warming, New England will become a prime grape growing region!


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## winesnob

bilbo-in-maine said:


> You never know, if the climate indeed is warming, New England will become a prime grape growing region!



That would be one good thing about global warming...

I am itching to move to Santa Ynez where I could grow my favorite grapes (Chardonnay and Syrah), but I have to win the lotto to get a place like this:
http://www.realtor.com/Prop/1045547563


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## masta

After Bill posted he had buds on some vines I went out to check on mine and the Cab Franc is showing lots of buds forming and if the weather doesn't change could we get bud break in January and if so what happens if it decides to get cold in February? 


Not much we can do I guess but wait and see what happens!


Tried to get a picture but tough to focus up so close even with a white background behind the vine.




*Edited by: masta *


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## Wade E

Man this weather is screwy!


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## Angell Wine

Have you pruned them back any ? 
It's still early in the season for you but might think about it.*Edited by: Angell Wine *


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## NorthernWinos

There is a danger of those grape buds freezing if you get a cold spell...it won't kill the vines [at least we hope not] but might affect your yields this year.

We have also been having an unusual winter up here on the Northern Plains....

When we usually have blizzards we have rain storms, some days the air smells sweet like spring....but with the short days and temps in the 40's and in the high 20's at night, I don't think anything is budding out yet.

Right now everything has been coved in ice....I actually broke put on some clip on studs for over my boots out on the flooded lake a couple days ago....those work like magic!!! The whole lake had flooded from rain and froze like a skating rink...we had to go out and block up our fish house so it wouldn't freeze down...

Today the North wind is really howling and some snow flurries are in the air...by Thursday we are to get some Arctic air, probably the first real cold for this winter....so hang onto your hats...it's headed South and East....*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman

This year has really been a roller coaster of weather.I think the one saving grace is that the real warm weather doesn't stay too long, so I'm hoping things aren't coming out of dormancey yet. I've had some buds that look likeyours Masta, since last fall. If I cut them open , they are still green inside. Yesterday the low for the day broke the all time record high for the day at 43 deg. By afternoon it got to 63 before the 50mph winds cooled it back down. Another record high for today(5th this week), but at least that was only 46. The ground just unfroze from the rain deluges yesterday morning. Wednesday high will be 26, but by the weekend 50 again. There may be hope for Vinifera around here yet!






Isn't growing grapes FUN and INTERESTING?


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## grapeman

Any budbreak on the Cab Franc yet Masta? Hopefully they came through the winter unscathed. I was talking with a man last weekend that grows Cab Franc locally. He's had them in for a few years now and says they seem to weather the winters fine here, but the issue with them here is getting warm enough autumn weather to ripen them adequately. I see another variety coming soon........ gotta experiment now! He has several vinifera varieties growing at his location(about 10 miles north of me).


We are looking at the 60's and 70's the next few days and are down to 3-6 inches of snow, so that should be gone in another day or two.


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## masta

Still no bud break here on the Cab Franc or Traminette even with the warm temps of the past 4 days. I did set my anchors in concrete yesterday since they were not too secure after the winter. Wires are nice and tight now with plenty of adjustment left in the turnbuckles on each end.


I have plans to get the area around my vines cleaned up shortly to make it look better and easy to walk through....lots of small stumps that are sprouting new growth.


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## NorthernWinos

masta said:


> I have plans to get the area around my vines cleaned up shortly to make it look better and easy to walk through....lots of small stumps that are sprouting new growth.




Masta....when you cut your trees and stumps again....use a paint brush and apply RoundUp Concentrate on the freshly cut area....they will not sprout again.


We have killed some undesirable suckering trees by painting the stumps like that. Last year we had a logger come in and harvest the Poplar [Aspen] trees...where Jim got out and painted the stumps there is very little regrowth...areas where he didn't paint the stumps have thick regrowth...we call it 'dog-hair Poplar', it's that think. It is going to ugly out here....good deer habitat is about it.


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## masta

Thanks for the tip on the Roundup!


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## jobe05

How about some new pic's!


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## NorthernWinos

We have some buds up here in Northern Minnnesota....a good sign...hope they don't get frosted...still can happen up here.


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## jobe05

Those are looking good!


Whats the boot for.......... or is it just a left over from the last poacher.


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## Wade E




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## grapeman

She's getting ready to "Kick" the Habit. I bet it feels good to get some buds starting to open finally. You are still a few days ahead of me!


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## NorthernWinos

The old boots get put on fence posts....so...they say the cowboys soles [souls] go to Heaven


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## bmorosco

Northern Winos said:


> The old boots get put on fence posts....so...they say the cowboys soles [souls] go to Heaven



Thats Great!!!


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## rgecaprock

For a second, I though your husband was standing on his head checking out the vines.....lol


Ramona


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## grapeman

Masta how are the vines doing this spring? Is either one doing better than the other. I planted 25 each of the Cab Franc and Traminette this year. They have been in a little over a week and are starting to leaf out a little. I decided to push the envelope after seeing some Cab Franc about 10 miles away doing OK.


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## masta

I will take some pictures tonight of the vines and will need some advice on what to do with them now. Most have very little growth from top buds and new shoots closer to the bottom which seems odd to me since the overall height will not get higher at this rate!


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## grapeman

Having not seen them I can't say for sure, but as I envision it you have a situation similar to mine. You have two choices- 


1: trim the top off where it isn't growing much. If thecane is less than a quarter inch, this might be best. Let the bottom growth grow a little and pick 2 fo the best shoots and snap the others off. The two will become the new trunk. Train them up the pole and they will get quite large and thick. This concentrates the reserves in the root and makes those two very vigorous and they will be bigger and mature sooner than last year. 


2: If the upper buds look good without a lot of insect damage and the cane is larger than a quarter inch- bite the bullet and trim off(rub off) all the lower shoots- especially below the graft union. This will force the energy higher in the vine and make those end shoots pick up speed growing. This will get rid of most of the fruit clusters which is desireable this year. 


Get a picture and I may be able to tell which way I would go.*Edited by: appleman *


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## masta

I have both scenarios you described with some canes larger than 1/4 of an inch and growth near the top and some with very small canes and growth near the bottom. I had lots of leaf damage last year from Japanese Beatles and will work harder to keep this in check.


Here are a few pictures:


A Cab Franc slacker with very small cane and growth near the bottom









The biggest Cab Franc with nice size cane and growth at the top








One of the Traminette with fairly good size cane and growth near the top










The worst of all vines a Traminette with only a small amount of growth near the bottom...but I hope it will make it. Weeds near the vines are bigger!


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## grapeman

It would probably be best to trim the small vines back to the bottom growth. That will force it to grow faster. It should have more time to mature this year and be better for it next year. I would let the larger vines grow unchecked except to trim off all but possibly one shoot at the bottom. That will force growth at the top. This year should get the vine bigger(thicker) and ready to bear a small crop next year.


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## Wade E

Good luck masta, I hope when I start next year I dont have too many
problems or Im going to need applemans phone #. Thats the red
phone(emergency).


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## grapeman

How about some updated pics Masta? It would be nice to see how they are doing there.Are the vines a vigorous grower in their second year or do they continue on slow. My Cab Franc and Traminette I planted this year are the smallest varieties out of the 8 varietiesI planted. Some vines in other varieties are 7 feet tall and the biggest CF and Tram are about 2 feet.


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## OilnH2O

I'll second that Masta! And only to get a little action on this part of the forum! I know you're busy with your new fresh-juice -- interesting reading by the way -- but a picture will show us how your vinyard did this summer -- between May and now, anyway!


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