# Did someone mention ELDERBERRIES!!!!!



## pwrose (Aug 7, 2011)

Here is the third 18 gallon tote this year. It was full before I took the pic and now its empty and going to be filled up again today or tomorrow.
So far there is 32 lbs of berries off the stems about another 15-20 lbs still to be removed from the stems. Should end up with a little over 50 lbs before the next batch is cut. Each of the first two totes averaged 16lbs, and neiter one was as full as this one was. I am hoping to have close to 100 lbs in the freezer by the time all is said and done. Oh yeah I found the elderberry honey hole, about a 1/4 mile strech of dirt road, with ditches full of elderberries on both sides.
I used to think this was fun until I found someone to go cut the berries for me, now all I have to do is remove them from the stems and that aint so fun. LOL.

What to do with so many elderberries???
Elderberry Port
Elderberry/Blackberry
Elderberry Blush
Elderberry (made with just juice no watering down)
Elderberry/Watermelon ????? (that one just came to me)
Elderberry Pee
Any other ideas


----------



## ffemt128 (Aug 7, 2011)

You lucky dog you. I'm slowly gathering.


----------



## FTC Wines (Aug 7, 2011)

Wine -O, I made 3 versions of Elderberry/Blueberry last year, my fav was 1/3 elderberry 2/3 blueberry. The 50/50 was also quite good. Wish I had a bigger source of Elderberries. roy just re-read your post, I have 3 gals. of watermelon wine from last year, kind of bland, will try blending with my Elederberry.


----------



## Kleftiwallah (Aug 24, 2011)

pwrose said:


> Here is the third 18 gallon tote this year. It was full before I took the pic and now its empty and going to be filled up again today or tomorrow.
> So far there is 32 lbs of berries off the stems about another 15-20 lbs still to be removed from the stems. Should end up with a little over 50 lbs before the next batch is cut. Each of the first two totes averaged 16lbs, and neiter one was as full as this one was. I am hoping to have close to 100 lbs in the freezer by the time all is said and done. Oh yeah I found the elderberry honey hole, about a 1/4 mile strech of dirt road, with ditches full of elderberries on both sides.
> I used to think this was fun until I found someone to go cut the berries for me, now all I have to do is remove them from the stems and that aint so fun. LOL.
> 
> ...



Are you telling me you will sit there and de-stalk that lot. Do you use a kitchen fork. Or have you some machine ! ? ! ? Cheers, Tony.


----------



## Midwest Vintner (Aug 24, 2011)

I would do elderberry port and both dry/semi-sweet normal wine. The black/elderberry looks promising too. I've not blended elderberry before, but I'd think it would do very well with most any berry, such as raspberry. Me, I love the stuff, so I'd just make lots of elderberry at different sweetness's and acidity. Maybe an experiment is in order? Say, a dry to sweet and with different levels of acidity, while logging all the data? Might be worth it, especially if you do this yearly. I know I'd be tuning in to see what you come up with.


----------



## pwrose (Aug 24, 2011)

I haven't forgotten about this post, and I will post some updates either tonight or tomorrow, go to go for now but I will return. Oh and yeah all by hand after trying several methods I came to the conclusion that by freezing them and then destemming was the easiest.


----------



## FTC Wines (Aug 24, 2011)

Elderberry Wine ??? Why is it that my Elderberry Wine seems to "oxidize" after opening. My other fruit wines, Apple, Peach, Blueberry, will keep in the Frig. after opening to the next day, [OK it's not often we don't finish a bottle in 1 day] but sometimes It goes into the Frig. over night at 38* The Elderberry comes out cloudy & "oxidized" The other fruit wines don't seem to to this after a day in the frig. All done with standard stabilization & sorbate. Reasons why? Roy


----------



## Julie (Aug 24, 2011)

FTC Wines said:


> Elderberry Wine ??? Why is it that my Elderberry Wine seems to "oxidize" after opening. My other fruit wines, Apple, Peach, Blueberry, will keep in the Frig. after opening to the next day, [OK it's not often we don't finish a bottle in 1 day] but sometimes It goes into the Frig. over night at 38* The Elderberry comes out cloudy & "oxidized" The other fruit wines don't seem to to this after a day in the frig. All done with standard stabilization & sorbate. Reasons why? Roy



I have never had this problem and I have to place a bottle of elderberry in the frig till the next day, it is always just as good the next day as it is on the day I open it.


----------



## FTC Wines (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks Julie, The mystery continues! Roy PS. Maybe Cracked Cork will see this. She seems to know everything about Elderberries.


----------



## docanddeb (Aug 24, 2011)

Other uses for elderberry:

Syrup- great medicinal properties for cold and flu season. I make a tea with honey... tastes great!

I make rasp/elder and elder/rasp syrup... different ratios.

It's great on ice cream, pound cake and pancakes.

Makes great flavored iced tea too!! I'm drinking THAT now!

I use the "cookie cooling rack" method for destemming.

Get the rectangular cookie cooling racks that have a square grid. As the berries settle into the squares.. drag the cluster sideways and they drop into the bucket. Freezing didn't work that well for me. I started steam juicing 2 yrs ago and this year I'm going to try doing it with less effort on getting the little stems out... THAT is the PITA part of it.
I love to go out picking too. We pick in the morning and then destem until late evening...

Debbie


----------



## pwrose (Sep 9, 2011)

Ok so it has been a little longer than I would like for it to have been.
But here is the update.
THEY CUT MY BUSHES DOWN
damn state people.
Thats ok I got over 75 lbs cleaned and ready to go in the freezer.

I have decided that next year there will be alot of elderberry and blackberry mixes going on. I only ended up with 40 lbs of blackberries this year but next year I will have help getting them so I should have alot more.
So off to finish racking 24 gallons sitting on thier lees.


----------



## Julie (Sep 9, 2011)

pwrose said:


> Ok so it has been a little longer than I would like for it to have been.
> But here is the update.
> THEY CUT MY BUSHES DOWN
> damn state people.
> ...



I hear ya, the electric company cut down the elderberry bushes at camp, two years ago and actually they have come up yet but they didn't touch the ones on the main road, so we got about 40#'s this year. I'm happy with that


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 9, 2011)

You maniac, you have honey bees and didnt even consider making an elderberry mead! 4 gallons of steamed elderberry juice (or 20 pounds of raw berries), 1.25 gallons of honey, good stuff especially if you use a good honey like locust or tulip or even wildflower but clover works well to. At least you got to harvest some before the govt men cut them down, maybe they read your posts and didnt want anyone to have fun picking berries beside the road.

Crackedcork


----------



## jtstar (Sep 10, 2011)

If any of you live near railroad tracks check there I have seen quite a few along the tracks this year while I was just driving down the road


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 10, 2011)

JStar, I see you have a wild plum in your winemaking list, we made a plum and elderberry last year, really sweetened it up and its aging right now, but its really a good wine, the richness of the plums plus the elderberries on top of it, might be one of our best wines we ever made. I bet your wild ones would work well also and lend the acid to give the elders a bit more taste.

Crackedcork



jtstar said:


> If any of you live near railroad tracks check there I have seen quite a few along the tracks this year while I was just driving down the road


----------



## pwrose (Sep 10, 2011)

Funny you mention making mead. Of all the things you would think I make a lot of and I rarely use honey for any of my wine making.
However I learned a new trick to making mead, although it isn't a true mead I like it a little better than true meads. It is a blended mead, the place in NY that I stopped at on my annual Lake Ontario fishing trip makes blended meads. The guy makes a wine out of what ever fruit he is going to blend with 10-13% ABV. Then he makes a straight mead with the same or very close ABV, then blends the two to get his final product. Before you say that it will not have enough flavor being that you are weakening down the wine, Let me say that there was no noticeable difference in any of the ones I tried. When I asked that question the girl doing the tastings opened a bottle of the plain wine and a bottle of the blended mead and had us try both, the flavor is different but the fruit flavor was still there in the mead and didn't seem to be toned down at all. I tried 6 different ones and the only once that was a noticeable difference was the one blackberry blush. The actual wine was awesome, the mead version of it was the color of a white zinfindale and not that of a white merlot like the actual wine was, and the blackberry flavor was not as strong in the mead as it was in the wine. All of the others the only difference that you could tell in the mead after taste. Most of them were blended at a 70/30 ratio but some were 80/20 like the peach and the pear. The berries were the ones that were 70/30.

If I were to want to get some clippings from these elderberry bushes to grow in my own yard how and when should I go about doing it. The state cuts them down every year and from what I was told they come back the following year the same way as before. Since they have already cut them this year when should I be looking to take the cuttings. Of course Cc you could always just send me some of your cuttings.


----------



## BobF (Sep 10, 2011)

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-8702.html


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 10, 2011)

You dont want any cuttings from us, we got hit with a blossom blight this year and it even stunted the growth of the new years growth. If I was you I would sneak in there with a shovel and dig up some of the plants, why waste your time starting cuttings when you already have rootballs to dig up? Now would be a great time to dig them up before they put on anymore new growth, water them in well and in the spring you should have some nice first year growth, you should get at least a years jump on rooting cuttings. 

We dont make straight meads either. We substitute honey for the sugar and use the most fruit we can for our fruit meads and then backsweeten them with honey before clearing. And I dont like to heat up the honey, fining can take out whatever proteins that boiling would remove. We even toss in some oak with our fruit meads. We have scored very well in the winemaker mag comp with both an elderberry and blackberry mead made this way. Last year we also made a black raspberry mead, its really better than just using sugar. 

I hope your hives are doing well, we are hosting 7 this year, never had so many apples and I think they helped the berries also. 

Crackedcork


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

The elderberries will come back. Cuttings are easy enough. Just stick em in the ground. These wild babies really WANT to grow!!

Debbie


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 10, 2011)

If they already cut them all down then there isnt anything to get cuttings from? Unless they reach back further than the mower could reach. Then wait until it freezes and take cuttings and start them indoors in some potting soil under lights. Keep an eye out for mites, then in the spring they will already have roots and take off faster than just putting the cuttings into the ground. I am knocking back the weeds along one fencerow, its probably going to have to be sprayed 2 seasons to make it clean enough, and then we are going to put in some cutting straight into the ground in the spring before they bud out. We have a long dibble we got from Construction safety products, it makes planting everything a lot easier, especially cuttings and bareroot stock. Crackedcork


http://www.cspforestry.com/Bully_Bar_Tree_Planting_Bar_p/bullybar.htm


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

They will come back in the spring and you can take cuttings then. Is this one of those projects that they cut back every 10 yrs or so? That is what they do around here. If so... don't worry... they'll be back!!

Debbie


----------



## pwrose (Sep 10, 2011)

From what the guy mowing told me is that they cut that ditch bank every year. That would explain why the bushes were no more than chest high and thick.
I like the idea of digging up the old plants, it will just be a matter of getting them without anyone asking why I am digging up the ditch bank. LOL. It is a state maintained gravel road, and albeit gravel it has plenty of traffic on it.

I will let ya know how it turns out I might wait until it gets a little colder to dig them up so that they are more dormant and not trying to grow in the process. I would hate to shock them into death. If I get a few weeds along with them they can be weeded through later, snicker.


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

I would be faster and easier to get cuttings next summer. If they just cut them down each year... you'll be fine. You just make sure you get the berries before they disappear!

Debbie


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 10, 2011)

Debbie, how does that make sense? Have you ever dug up an elderberry plant? They are very easy to transplant and take off like rockets if they already have roots. 

What PW needs to get is one of those fluorescent orange vests and some little orange flags to put around in a circle around his work area so he looks authentic, and maybe a hardhat  Crackedcork



docanddeb said:


> I would be faster and easier to get cuttings next summer. If they just cut them down each year... you'll be fine. You just make sure you get the berries before they disappear!
> 
> Debbie


----------



## pwrose (Sep 10, 2011)

LOL, on the hunt for the orange vest and white hat. I have the cones and do not care to tell where they came from.


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

I know that if I tried to dig up a wild elderberry plant... it would be impossible. There would be a tangle beyond belief. There are always many grown together and the roots spread like quack grass. They are growing along with other brush and would have to fight that off too. I would find it much easier to take a cutting and stick it in dirt. 
In fact... after you finish fermenting... just plant some of the seeds. I have elderberry bushes sprouting in my flower beds from the compost. I dug those up and gave them away.

Debbie


----------



## Julie (Sep 10, 2011)

That maybe how they grow in Wisconsin but I'm not sure about everywhere else. Please keep in mine that across the United States we have different climates, different dirt and different areas that items grow in. That is why we have zones. 

So when claiming how something grows in your area, please keep in mind that your zone may very well be different than someone else's and the plant will grow much different in another zone.

It is always best to state what area you are talking about and this is how it grows here. This prevents some confusion.


----------



## BobF (Sep 10, 2011)

If you don't care about the erosion problems you'll create in the ditch, dig them up.


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

Yep,

That's why I said... "around here"... that is how they grow.

Debbie


----------



## BobF (Sep 10, 2011)

Deb -

Are you in Berlin, or New Berlin?

I lived in the Madison area for a few years. I know New Berlin but never heard of Berlin


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 10, 2011)

Berlin... near Oshkosh.

Debbie


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 10, 2011)

Bob, I have never met PWR but from his postings on here that are helpful to all and the positive attitude displayed I would doubt that he would be so irrisponsible to dig one big hole and clear out the bank but would instead sample up and down the canal and knock off the dirt to get bare rooted plants. MO probably has a source for native elderberry plants to restore wildlife habitat, that might be an easier way to get them, they are usually cheap that way. Our conservation program doesnt supplly elderberries unfortunately or we could have used some fallow fields to plant elderberries in. CC



BobF said:


> If you don't care about the erosion problems you'll create in the ditch, dig them up.


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 10, 2011)

Those dibble bars I posted on here are great for planting cutting, rooted cuttings, tomatoe plants and peppers, bare root trees and bushes and elderberries, it gets down deep easily unless you hit a big rock, wiggle it a little back and forth to open up a nice slit in the ground, poke your plant and roots down in the slit, slide the dibble bar into the ground right behind the first hole and push forwared a little and you instantly clear out the air pocket and create a great hole for watering your newly planted friend. CC


----------



## BobF (Sep 10, 2011)

CrackedCork said:


> Bob, I have never met PWR but from his postings on here that are helpful to all and the positive attitude displayed I would doubt that he would be so irrisponsible to dig one big hole and clear out the bank but would instead sample up and down the canal and knock off the dirt to get bare rooted plants. MO probably has a source for native elderberry plants to restore wildlife habitat, that might be an easier way to get them, they are usually cheap that way. Our conservation program doesnt supplly elderberries unfortunately or we could have used some fallow fields to plant elderberries in. CC


 
I wasn't implying anything negative ... a better choice of words would have been somerthing like, "... if potential erosion isn't an issue ..."

And yes, we have an excellent conservation nursery. Elderberries have been $7/25 one year old bare root plants.

Anyway ... yes, those road crew brush-hoggers are a pain in the neck!


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 11, 2011)

Bob, can you post their address, I am going to convert a fencerow to put in lots of elderberries this spring and it would be cool to have wild ones to compare to all of our cultivated berries, plus I was thinking that maybe one or the other would produce if something like blossom blight got the cultivated ones but not the wild ones, and, we have never made wine from the wild ones and it seems there may be a difference?? even though the tames ones are really just selected from the wild, its not like they are hybrid tomatoes.

Crackedcork



BobF said:


> I wasn't implying anything negative ... a better choice of words would have been somerthing like, "... if potential erosion isn't an issue ..."
> 
> And yes, we have an excellent conservation nursery. Elderberries have been $7/25 one year old bare root plants.
> 
> Anyway ... yes, those road crew brush-hoggers are a pain in the neck!


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 11, 2011)

I thought they WERE hybrids... WOW. So they will stay true even though they are cross pollinated with the others? I hadn't thought about that aspect!

Debbie


----------



## BobF (Sep 11, 2011)

CrackedCork said:


> Bob, can you post their address ...
> Crackedcork


 
CC - Here's info, but the plants are only for use in the state of MO ...

#458 is elderberry
http://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/resources/2010/04/10_11seedlingorderform.pdf


General info:
http://mdc.mo.gov/landwater-care/landowners-and-farmers/seedling-orders/state-forest-nursery

This is a VERY cool resource


----------



## BobF (Sep 11, 2011)

docanddeb said:


> I thought they WERE hybrids... WOW. So they will stay true even though they are cross pollinated with the others? I hadn't thought about that aspect!
> 
> Debbie


 
Deb -

My possibly incorrect understanding:

The named cultivars were selected from wild bushes and propogated by those they're named for. Different varieties occur naturally. These differences occur through cross pollination and propogation from seed. Propogation from cuttings always results in a new plant of the same variety as the donor.

IME picking wild elders, I've seen MANY different looking plants and berry sizes/shapes.

My intent is to one day select/propogate the elders I like best from the ones I'm growing. Unless I decide 500-1000#/year is enough berries


----------



## BobF (Sep 11, 2011)

docanddeb said:


> Berlin... near Oshkosh.
> 
> Debbie


 
I've ridden through Oshkosh, but I don't remember a Berlin anywhere.

WI is a great place to cycle (motor). Neat little towns spaced just far enough apart, each with a nice place to grab refreshments.

BUT ... it seemed to me like winter lasted from September through June


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 11, 2011)

We see differences around here too... one easy way to see the difference is whether the stems are reddish or green. Berry size is definitely different too.

If the plant grows from the same roots... kind of like how quack grass spreads... then they would be true. Seeds falling from birds could be a cross, right?? If you take cuttings from your favorite plants, they would stay true.

I guess I hadn't thought about this kind of stuff for a LONG time!

Debbie


----------



## WVMountaineerJack (Sep 11, 2011)

Some of the cultivated varieties are crosses between different older cultivars, some are selected from the wild stock but to keep them true cuttings have to be propogated. When they are growing them for wildlife they use seeds to propogate as they want as much diversity and they can get and its cheaper to grow seedlings. An interesting way to harvest seeds is to put them in a food processor with some water, whirl it for a few seconds, pour off the juice and bits of flesh and keep doing it until the water is clear. The ripe seeds are hard and wont be chopped up by the blade. After we read how they harvest these seeds we now have no problem using an imersion blender to chop up our strawberries. 

Crackedcork


----------



## docanddeb (Sep 11, 2011)

WOW... interesting facts!!

It really is a miracle berry! LOL

Debbie


----------

