# Grapes vs frozen must



## dburling (Jul 16, 2013)

I am looking to move from wine kits into using fresh grapes or frozen must. I live in Tennessee which I believe will have a significant impact on the path I should follow. 

With location in mind, could I get input on which path you would recommend? Also, please include a good source for either grapes or must. 

Thanks!


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## djrockinsteve (Jul 16, 2013)

I prefer starting with juice. I get juice straight from California via a wholesaler in our strip district. I also get juice from New York from a vineyard. 

We started visiting friends in Iowa where we pick, press and ferment on the grape. I use the skins for a skeeter version of the grape. 

It's more work but fun. Google search Regina juice, then call the company and see if there are any wholeslers there. 

Regina is a quality juice or grapes if you like with many varieties available. 

If not look to get grapes in your area. You will save on shipping costs. It costs more to ship grapes than juice. Regina juices here range $45.00-55.00 for 6 gallon pails ph and acid balanced shipped fresh and innocated with sulfite for the trip.


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## JohnT (Jul 17, 2013)

I would have to fire the question back at you.. 

What is your current situation? Are you in a position where more effort can be made? Do you have the resources for additional equipment? Are you at a stage where you want to simplify your life? 

The above will answer your question. I alway use fresh whole grapes because I like to control the entire process from fruit to wine. There is a lot of control you have when your wine is sitting on the skins. You do not have that option with bucket juice. 

Another question is exactly how much do you plan on making? The answer will dictate exactly how much you will need to spend on new equipment (crusher/destemmer and press). Unless you make your own equipment, this could range from hundreds to thousands of dollars.

Most folks start with kits, then move to bucket juice, then move to whole fruit. Each step usually marks an increase in the amount that is made. I say that if you really want to start with whole fruit, then go for it! Although you can make fantastic wines from kits and bucket juice, I get a personal kick out of making wine "from square one". To me is just means that much more.

(note: The above is not intended to put anybody down. the tallent and skill set from kit and bucket winemakers is second to none!)


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## manvsvine (Jul 17, 2013)

I would ask 2 questions.

How much wine do you want to make?

What do you have access to?
If there are locally grown or fresh California or Washington grapes available I would go with grapes.

If you live in an apartment and want to make a carboy of napa Cabernet or carneros Pinot noir frozen is your path.


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## dburling (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. I do not have access to locally grown grapes other than the same Internet sources everyone uses. My concern with fresh grapes is the quality considering most suppliers I see on the net are reselling the grapes. 

What level of quality have you seen when purchasing California grapes from an east coast supplier?


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## JohnT (Jul 18, 2013)

I am fortunate to live in an area that has a large population of old-world and first-generation-old-world folks. Namely, the NYC/tri-state area.

At my local, there is incredable turn around. Grapes by the pallet load are loaded into customers vehicles by the pallet load via a loading dock. The volume of business they do means that the grapes are never sitting around for too long. 

The level of quality changes from year to year but is always acceptable. Most years, I go down to my local and check the grapes with a refractometer and also judge for taste. Ultimately, I make my decision at that point and ask them to reverve me some. I then pick them up on the following friday. 

I guess what I am saying here is that yes, you can get GREAT quality from california. You can also get GREAT quality from Chile.

where are you located? You say that you are on the east coast.


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## dburling (Jul 18, 2013)

That is very encouraging to hear!


I am in East Tennessee. Close enough to Nashville or Atlanta to make a road trip for good grapes.


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## JohnT (Jul 19, 2013)

dburling said:


> That is very encouraging to hear!
> 
> 
> I am in East Tennessee. Close enough to Nashville or Atlanta to make a road trip for good grapes.


 

Ok, So there you go. You have access to grapes. 

Now the only question is this, Is the purchase of a destemmer, press, and fermentation vat (primary) worth the joy of making from fresh grapes? 

I can tell you that it is. It is so wonderful and fun! I have hundreds of photos of my friends and family joining together when the grapes come in. It is a true party (especially when the work is done and we can do some sippin). Heck, even the act of picking up the grapes is something that a number of folks want to go in on! 

It really is a function of how much you plan to make. The more you make, the more money it will cost for equipment. For a 5-6 gal batch, you could easily make do with your feet to crush them, a milk crate to strain out the stems, and a cheesecloth bag to squeeze the juice out of them. 

My choice would be to get a reasonable sized press and a crusher/destemmer. Keep in mind that you may want to make more in the future. Also keep in mind that (with whole fruit) you are at the whim of the harvest. You need to make a whole year's supply only once a year.


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## dburling (Jul 23, 2013)

Does anyone know of a vendor in either Atlanta or Nashville that sells grapes?


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## Paulc (Aug 10, 2013)

Try the wine/brew shop just south of the perimeter...might be in stockbridge but not sure. you can google them. they are currently trying to pull together a group buy.

Paul


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## TomK-B (Jan 14, 2014)

dburling, did you ever find what you were looking for? I live in Nashville and am wanting to make the move from kits to frozen must and/or fresh grapes. I began to do a little searching late last fall for sources in this area and I didn't come up with anything . . . certainly nothing like what John describes. I'm only aware of two LHBS here and neither of them offers anything except kits. I've considered visiting with a couple of the vineyards around here and offering to help with their harvest in exchange for grapes. Of course, in choosing that route I'd be dealing with Tennessee grapes, not California, Oregon or Washington grapes. I think I'm going to try the frozen must first and then see what I can come up with as far as fresh grapes goes in the fall.


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## Paulc (Jan 15, 2014)

Have you tried wine made from grapes grown in your area? Personally I think east coast grapes, grown well and vinted well, can stand up to any west coast wine. Keeping in mind that you don't drink a CA wine for a French wine experience, if a person doesn't know much beyond CA wine they will likely be disappointed by something other than CA wine. Not sure that made sense but...I would call the local vineyards and see if they will sell to you, or trade grapes for labor. Barring that I would either contact Barley and Vine in Atlanta area or buy frozen must/juice(M&M). I have done over 500 lbs of fresh grapes twice now(with help from friends) without a crusher/destemmer or press. A heck of a lot of work but totally do-able. I can strip 100lbs of grapes by hand in less than an hour, stripping them general crushes them. I then stomp with my feet for a bit to get the juice to really come out and then the grapes are ready. It is great to have all the equipment but most of it is really not required if you are willing/able to do a bit more work, especially if you are just starting out and not sure you want to go all-in. I guess this would be a lot harder if you are talking white wine, but red wine really doesn't require a lot of bells and whistles to get started.

Anyway, my .02. Having made the switch to fresh grapes and frozen must I wouldn't willing make a kit wine again...

Paul


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## TomK-B (Jan 15, 2014)

Yes, Paul, I've tried wines from several vineyards and wineries here in Middle Tennessee. And there are two that I have in mind to try to buy/barter for grapes. One has a Chardonnay that I've liked very much and the other likes to do Bordeaux blends and has some fine red grapes. More and more I'm looking for ways to stay local if at all possible. Before doing that I think I'll order a frozen must bucket from M&M to get a sense for the difference in process from kits. I'm glad to hear your experience about doing wine from grapes without all the fancy equipment. That's how I was imagining starting out with it.


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## randomhero (Jan 15, 2014)

I have done both fresh grapes from my area around the finger lakes. And also frozen must. 

I would highly recommend winegrapesdirect.com they are amazing and the grapes are top notch.

They are a sponsor on here. The selection isn't as big as m&m but they have the best customer service. I could keep raving about them all night haha


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