# do you stir mead.



## Hunt

I started a 3 gal batch of bochet mead on the 9 th of April. The starting sg was 1.123 there is still some activity in the airlock with about 1 bubble every 2 or 3 min. The st as of 4 days ago was 1.060 and as if today I can't see any change. Just wondering if I should give it a stir or add some more nutrient to get it moving again or just leave it be


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## seth8530

You should add aminno nitrogen to mead all the way up to the 2/3 sugar break (Not DAP the yeast wont use it that late in the ferment). I would also recommend you get it out of the carboy and into an open primary that way you can get some air into the must. If it was my mead I would not worry about getting it into a carboy until primary fermentation is nearly complete.
If you are not careful with a mead it will stall out on you and the lack of proper nutrients can lead to some funky flavours.


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## Hunt

This is my first large batch I have always done just honey mead in 1 gal batches with various outcomes. You talked about a sugar break. What do you mean by that. I'll get it out of the carboy tomorrow should I take the sediment with it or treat it like a racking and get it off the sediment


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## byathread

Sugar break means how much of the fermentation is complete (2/3 sugar break meaning 2/3 or 66% of fermentation complete). As mead is such a low nutrient must it is vital (particularly with high gravity musts) to follow good fermentation practices, such as daily aeration in the first 3-5 days as well as staggered nutrient addition.


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## seth8530

I would keep the sediment with it. It most likely has some yeastie beasties in thier so best not to leave them behind.

The 1/3 sugar break is 1/3 of the way through fermentation. So to give you an idea 1.123-1.00 is .123. Thus if you break that into three steps you would have your 1/3 sugar break after you had fermeted around .040 of your sugars thus at 1.083. The 2/3 break would be at roughly 1.043. If I recall correctly DAP is not much good way past the 1/3 sugar break.. However, from what I recall a product like fermaid O is good up to the 2/3 break.

Nutrient scheduling is of crucial importance when making meads since they are practically sugar water and have little nutrients of their own..

Give these two threads a read for some more info.


http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f86/got-off-phone-fermaid-people-38704/

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f86/yeast-nutrients-39655/

The top thread has more detailed information that will be very useful for mead making. However, the second thread is a nice quick and dirty one.


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## Hunt

I'm almost 20 says in without aeration or adding any nutrients. I'm I still good to add air and nutrients


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## seth8530

It is not the days in its the progress of the ferment. At 20 days in I would be seriously worried about a stalled fermentation. At this point I would get it into an open primary, get some air in it, and some nutrient and try and bring this ferment back to life.


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## BernardSmith

What was your yeast? Is it possible that it cannot ferment out the sugars in the honey?


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## Hunt

It was D47 yeast


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## seth8530

Yup, bad trouble in yeast land lol. Need to get this guy back to life since it appears you are well within the ABV tolerance.


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## Hunt

I still have some action so it's not totally stalled I think. I'm making a trip to the home brew store to get the chemicals I need


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## SouthernChemist

It sounds like the fermentation is struggling if not stalled. Adding yeast nutrients may work, but it's possible at this point that it won't be enough. You may be able to revive things with a viable yeast starter if that's the case. The only way to be sure that fermentation is still progressing is with a SG reading. What is the fermentation temperature?


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## Hunt

Steady at 75 degrees


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## Hunt

Was able to get fermax at the brew store. It was the best they had. Hope it's good enough


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## SouthernChemist

Hunt said:


> Steady at 75 degrees



D47 can produce higher alcohols above its recommended temperature range (59-68 according to Lalvin). Aging can alleviate this at least somewhat, though.


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## Hunt

I think it's officially stalled. Almost 24 hours after adding the nutrient there is no activity. And no SG change still at 1.060


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## WVMountaineerJack

Get a pack of EC1118 or Premier Cuvee, make a starter, when it gets bubbling add an equal volume of your mead, let it eat some of that and then add another volume of your mead and after it bubbles that dump it into your mead and stir the snot out of it. Also, how much did you cook your honey, if you really really caramalized it some people think that there are sugars left that the yeast cant eat and leave the sg high. D47 at this high a temp not the best choice, its usually suggested for cooler lighter styles, a Bochet is big and meaty, a K1V1116 would also be a good choice. WVMJ


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## Hunt

I cooked the honey for 2 hours it's pretty dark.


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## SouthernChemist

I second the idea of making a starter. Caramelization could lead to unfermentable sugars, but I would expect that to give a final SG much lower than 1.060.


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## Hunt

The starter is going and bubbling away. I added the first portion of the stuck mead. How long am I supposed to wait before adding more.


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## Hunt

I added the starter about 4 hours ago and the sg dropped from 1.060 to 1.052 so looks like all systems are go again. Thanks for the info


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## seth8530

How large was the starter and what did it consist of?


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## Hunt

It was about 1 1\2 quarts. Water 1\2 cup of honey yeast nutrient and energizer with about 3\5 pack of EC1118 yeast


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## seth8530

Make sure that the gravity is still moving downard. It is possible that the gravity only changed since you diluted the mead.


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## byathread

What I would do is add a bit at a time of your stuck mead to the starter to acclimate it, then in 48 hrs, or when the starter is really rocking, add the entire starter to your batch.


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## Hunt

seth8530 said:


> Make sure that the gravity is still moving downard. It is possible that the gravity only changed since you diluted the mead.


 I think that may be what happened. It's been over 12 hours with no further change. However there is a layer if bubbles on the mess when there wasn't before


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## seth8530

Give it some air, stir the mead. Did you transfer it into an open container? The bubbles on top are promising.


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## SouthernChemist

Hunt said:


> The starter is going and bubbling away. I added the first portion of the stuck mead. How long am I supposed to wait before adding more.



I would keep an eye on the activity, and when it appears things are dying down in the starter, add some more of your stuck mead. It shouldn't take too long for most of the sugars to be fermented out. The point is to get the yeast acclimated to your stuck mead before adding it all.


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## Hunt

Yes it's in a bucket covered with an UN snapped down lid.


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## seth8530

And are you working some air into it from time to time?

Normally I would not advice putting too much air into the ferment once you get it rolling.... However, I believe a stuck ferment is a greater risk than the potential consequences of getting too much air in.....


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## Hunt

I'm giving it a good stir once a day with a paddle attached to a drill. To much?


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## seth8530

I would do it more often but perhaps less intense.


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## Hunt

Ok. I just came home hand found my hydrometer broken. S so I'm playing the guessing game till I can get a new one.


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## seth8530

Ouch, I would get a new one if possible.


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## sour_grapes

When you buy one, buy two instead! That is what I did last time I broke one. It does two things for you: (1) you'll have a backup if you break the first one, and (2) you'll never break the first one, because you prepared for that eventuality!


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## Hunt

sour_grapes said:


> When you buy one, buy two instead! That is what I did last time I broke one. It does two things for you: (1) you'll have a backup if you break the first one, and (2) you'll never break the first one, because you prepared for that eventuality!


 So very true. Whats really a heartbreak is i was at the brew store today and was looking at them and i didnt know why. I think the wine Gods were hinting that i needed a new one.


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## Hunt

Ok so I got a new hydrometer today and tested the mead and sill no change. Still sitting at 1.052. Anything else I can try before declaring it a loss


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## seth8530

Try making a strong starter using ec1118 rehydrated in go ferm. Do as southernchemist said over a period of time add the mead to your starter over a few days. Once the volume is large ( a quart or so) pitch it into the mead. Give it plenty of air once you pitch it in.


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## Hunt

How long will the mead keep? My local store doesn't have go ferm I'll have to order it on payday a week away.


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## seth8530

What is the ABV on the mead? You can skip the go ferm if it will really take that long to get it. It just helps having it.


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## Hunt

The calculations say it's 9.32% OG 1.123 FG 1.052


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## seth8530

With that ABV it might keep until then.. However, I would go ahead and make a starter without it.


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## Hunt

I'll get it going tonight. Is all this yeast I'm adding gonna cause an if flavor? This will make it 3 packs of yeast total


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## seth8530

Nope, it should all drop out of suspension.


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## Hunt

Cool. The new starter has been made. I'll slowly add must to it over the next 2 days and pray


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## seth8530

Yep, make sure to get a good volume of starter before you pitch.


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## SouthernChemist

Hunt said:


> I'll get it going tonight. Is all this yeast I'm adding gonna cause an if flavor? This will make it 3 packs of yeast total



It would increase the risk of off flavors if you left all the yeast sediment in the mead for a long period of time (months), but at this point it should not cause a problem. I would keep checking my starter for signs of activity after every addition of must. If it looks like it's fermenting your stuck mead well after a couple of additions, dump the whole starter in your mead. If by some chance something is wrong, you will know before you've added everything together. 

I suppose in the worst case scenario, you'll either have a very very sweet mead or something that you can use for blending purposes. Might go well blended with a dry mead.


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## Hunt

I added some must before work today and when I went home on lunch it was bubbling away. I'm gonna add a little more must when I get off work.


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## Hunt

I think there is hope. The starter was bubbling once every 10 seconds or so and after I added the last amount of must its bubbling every 2 seconds. I should be pitching the starter tonight.


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## seth8530

Sounds like a plan, I hope it fixes you right!


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## mmadmikes1

Gota love a good outcome


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## SouthernChemist

Hopefully the new yeast will at least take the SG down to a more drinkable level.


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## Hunt

Still no action. I'm starting to think it's as fermented as it is gonna get.


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## seth8530

Did you pitch the starter?


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## Hunt

Yes. About 12 hours ago.


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## seth8530

It might take a bit of time, make sure you are giving it plenty of air during this time.


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## Deezil

Yeah, give that starter some time still


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## Hunt

Still nothing on the mead. I gave it a taste. Was not sweet at all. More like soy sauce lol. I'm gonna rack it into a carboy and forget about it for a year and see what happens.


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## seth8530

Did you check the gravity?


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## WVMountaineerJack

Get a pack of EC1118 or Premier Cuvee, make a starter, when it gets bubbling add an equal volume of your mead, let it eat some of that and then add another volume of your mead and after it bubbles that dump it into your mead and stir the snot out of it. Also, how much did you cook your honey, if you really really caramalized it some people think that there are sugars left that the yeast cant eat and leave the sg high. D47 at this high a temp not the best choice, its usually suggested for cooler lighter styles, a Bochet is big and meaty, a K1V1116 would also be a good choice. WVMJ


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## Hunt

Yeah the gravity remains the same.


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## seth8530

What was your procedure for doing the starter.


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## Hunt

1\2 cup honey, 2 cups water, some yeast nutrient. Once it got to bubbling I added 3\4 quart of the must. It went crazy for about 12 hours before slowing down.v once it slowed I added another quart of must and got it going crazy again. Kept doing that till I had 3 quarts of starter then pitched it. Took about 48 hours in all. Once I pitched the starter I checked the gravity. It was 1.042 and that's where it stayed. Mixed the mead 3 times or more a day. Kept the temp at 75 and not a thing happened.


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## seth8530

Yep, try again. The gravity of your starter was a little to high and during the rehydration phase yeast nutrient is toxic to yeast. Try for a gravity of around 1.020, and no yeast nutrient but a rehydration nutrient such as go ferm for the yeast. Then over time add more and more must.

Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear.. I would try one more time... Yeast is cheap honey is not.


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## Hunt

I forgot to say that I added 1118 yeast to my starter. I am now totally out of yeast and can't get up to the store till around the 23rd. But I'll go for it again as soon as I can. This isn't fun lol.


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## seth8530

Depending on how much you care about your mead you might want to get to that a little bit sooner. It is kind of sitting in an awkward spot.. I would rack to carboy for now if you must wait that long.


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## byathread

One other thing to consider (as a last resort) is to dilute your must/mead a bit just to lower the gravity by perhaps 10 points to see if it will start up again (possibly with another starter).


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## Hunt

I'll rack it today. I don't get paid till the 23rd.


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