# Thinking outside the box



## joeswine

I know theres recipes out there for this type of wine ,but has anyone made a really flavorful almond wine and what was the trick if any ,Im looking to expand my wine cellar and tried this before commercially and it was very good in body and flavor..........


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## Tom

I'm 1st in line when its bottled.....


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## joeswine

*almond wine*

tepe you'll be the first to taste.........


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## Wade E

I hve not either but someone on here made a roasted Pecan wine and I am still witing for that recipe to magically appear here!!!!!!!!!!! That just sounds delish!!!! Joe, glad to see you back on here!


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## Midwest Vintner

nut wines take a lot of work. if not done right, they will spoil and/or not get good flavor. not to mention they are not cheap to experiment with. all i can say is, good luck!


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## non-grapenut

*Pecan Wine Recipe*



Wade E said:


> I hve not either but someone on here made a roasted Pecan wine and I am still witing for that recipe to magically appear here!!!!!!!!!!! That just sounds delish!!!! Joe, glad to see you back on here!



Here it IS Wade. I have had some people tell me this is the best wine I have ever made. It is the HARDEST (next to coconut) one I have ever made, requiring a lot of work due to nearly weekly rackings to rack off the floating oil that will go rancid if not watched.

Pecan Wine-1 gallon that tastes like bourbon:

1 gal. fresh-shelled pecans (remove as much pithe as possible)
2 gal. very hot water (not boiling)--with rackings, you should net 1 gal.
2 crushed campden tabs, another around 5th racking
Lt. Brown suger to 1.122 s/g (about 2.5 bags)
1 t. yeast energizer
2 t. yeast nutrient
2 t. acid blend (I used Fruit Fresh)
1 pkt. Premier Cuvee (because it can be used for cold fermentation to 45F)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Pour hot water over pecans in primary with crushed campden, stir well, sit overnight

Next morning, remove the pecans and add the remaining ingredients. Sprinkle yeast on top. DONT MAKE COOKIES WITH THESE unless you love fruitcake. They DO make very good toasted candied nuts, though.

When s/g ~ 1.020, rack (this was in only 5 DAYS for me!) and place in fridge (or outside in shaded area, as long as it's not less than 45F outside.) I did not use airlocks, but rather, used glass containers with the lids slightly loosened. These anaerobic conditions coupled with cold temps may have helped bacteria from not forming when the pecan oil started to become rancid.

You will notice even with cold fermentation, you still have a vigorous bubbling. I racked this liquor almost every 2-4 weeks using wads of paper towels to sop up the oil floating at the very top. With each racking, vigourously splash rack (de-gas) if fermentation still shows visible bubbling to release gas. Liquor started to clear around the 4th rack for me.

Added 1 campden at my 5th racking when my s/g stabilized at .9880 a couple rackings in a row. I started this wine 11-8-09 and just did my 6th rack 1-16-10, and no more oil is separating on the top.

It's dark amber, with crazy lace and boozey smell. I plan to let this sit a bit more before I do my last stabilizing rack with .5t sorbate, if needed at all since I am at ~17alc.


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## non-grapenut

joeswine said:


> I know theres recipes out there for this type of wine ,but has anyone made a really flavorful almond wine and what was the trick if any ,Im looking to expand my wine cellar and tried this before commercially and it was very good in body and flavor..........



I've never made only an almond wine, but I have added whole almonds to a cherry wine during secondary fermentation. It resulted an amazing cherry almond.


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## Runningwolf

non-grapenut said:


> I've never made only an almond wine, but I have added whole almonds to a cherry wine during secondary fermentation. It resulted an amazing cherry almond.



How many almonds did you add per gallon? Was there an issue with the oils? I am guessing you can buy just plain shelled almonds, right? I just started a cherry and I am doing half with chocolate and the other half was going to be plain. Can you explain what you did please?


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## Wade E

Awesome, thanks NGN. I think I will try this when fall hits and roast the pecans fist. OMG that has to smell great in the house!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## non-grapenut

Runningwolf said:


> How many almonds did you add per gallon? Was there an issue with the oils? I am guessing you can buy just plain shelled almonds, right? I just started a cherry and I am doing half with chocolate and the other half was going to be plain. Can you explain what you did please?



I added 12 whole, shelled almonds to a magnum of cherry as an experiment. No problem with any oild, but it did raise the tannin factor (pithe on the nuts...so try to compensate in the beginning when you are adding your chemicals.) Please don't make me do math on a Friday afternoon. Killed too many brain cells last night at the b-day bash. A friend bought a bottle of Frank Capolla Merlot over...good stuff..then we hit my mum mead. Yeesh. Still, here I am at work.


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## non-grapenut

Wade E said:


> Awesome, thanks NGN. I think I will try this when fall hits and roast the pecans fist. OMG that has to smell great in the house!!!!!!!!!!!!



Break a leg dealing with those rotting, floating oils, Wade! I would start with a large batch because starting with 2 gallons netted me only 1. THAT'S SACRIFICE!!!! And the pecans to make great candied pecans after the fact using brown sugar, whipped egg whites and some spices.


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## joeswine

*Almond wine saga*

Well when last we talk I was interested in making almond wine ,I had a very good bottle from a winery call THREE SISTERS some were here in central NEW JERSEY,IT WAS DELICATE AND FLAVORFUL,this is what I would like to try and duplicate ,,a perfect almond wine for my taste.


will continue later have to go to work


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## Runningwolf

Joe I did a cherry last year with chocolate and toasted almonds. I think it'll be another year before it's ready though.


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## Tom

Joe,
The winery Tomasello's American Almonique in Hammonton is known for its almond wine. Have you tried theirs?
http://www.tomasellowinery.com/our-wines.html


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## joeswine

*Almomnd wine*

I'm GETTING READY TO START THE WINE PROCESS,I HAVE A FEW RECIPIES ON HAND BUT NOT SURE WHICH ONE TO USE,IF i MAKE A EXTRACT OF ALMOND AND ADDED IT TO A BASE WINE THAT WOULD WORK,IF I ROASTED THE ALMONDS FIRST AND THEN CRUSHED THEM IN MY PROCESSOR,THAT WOULD BE THE RAW BASE INGREDENT ,HOW MUCH OIL FORM THE ALOMONS CAN I EXPECT ANYONE NO?


WILL START PROCEEDURES TOMMORROW


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## Runningwolf

Joe I would not use roasted almonds. I bought raw almonds and then toasted them in the oven. Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Spread nuts in one layer on ungreased shallow baking pan. Bake for 10 to 15 minutes, stirring occasionally, until golden. Toasting of nuts intensifies their flavor. Think outside of the box.


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## joeswine

*almond*

these are raw nuts from sams club I will have to roast them,was there a lot of oil after you crushed them?

I think this is going to be a challenge,any other bumps for me to look out for down the road?


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## SarahRides

I have a one gallon batch of almond wine that is still sitting in the jug (made it last winter). Smells great! Can't really tell you about the taste though. There was a thin layer of oil at the top when I first started it, but after the first racking, I haven't seen any of it. When I actually taste it, I'll let you all know how it is! I used this recipe:

1 cup whole almonds
2 lemons, juice and rind
1 1/2 pounds light raisins
5 cups granulated sugar
1 teaspoon yeast nutrient
1 campden tablet
1 teaspoon pectic enzyme
1 package wine yeast
water
Chop almonds and raisins finely in a food processor. DO NOT over process almonds or you will end up with almond butter. Place in a large pot and cover with water. Simmer for 1 hour, adding water periodically to prevent scorching. Strain out solids and place liquid in primary fermentor.

Add water to make up to 1 gallon and all other ingredients except the yeast. Let sit overnight. Check specific gravity -- it should be between 1.090 and 1.100. Add yeast. Stir daily for five or six days, until frothing stops. This may be slow to start fermenting.

Strain. Siphon into secondary fermentor and attach airlock.

For a dry wine, rack in three weeks, and every three months for one year. Bottle.

For a sweet wine, rack at three weeks. Add 1/2 cup sugar dissolved in 1 cup wine. Stir gently, and place back into secondary fermentor. Repeat process every six weeks until fermentation does not restart with the addition of sugar. Rack every three months until one year old. Bottle.


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## Runningwolf

joeswine said:


> these are raw nuts from sams club I will have to roast them,was there a lot of oil after you crushed them?
> 
> I think this is going to be a challenge,any other bumps for me to look out for down the road?



I hate crushed nuts, damn! I put them in whole after toasting them. No oil residue.


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## joeswine

*almond wine*

CRUSHED NUTS


IS THAT RIGHT NO OIL HOW WAS THE TASTE?


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## Runningwolf

It was not good after 8 months. I don't plan on tasting again until at least Christmas. Rather bitter.


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## joeswine

*almond wine*

I have a alternative plan ,but I will make the wine..


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## joeswine

*Almond wine*

I didn't think I'd have such a hesitation on this but,I think what I'll do first is make a extract of almonds and see how that turns out if thats good then I'll make a white wine and back feed the extract to it,back sweeten if need and move forward on it ,just my backup plan..what do you think wolfman....


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## Runningwolf

Joe I like this idea of the extract. Go ahead and make your table wine and a seperate batch of extract. This way they're both aging and getting tweaked at the same time.Then you can go ahead and do your bench trails to see what blend will work. I like your Idea, Joe.


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## joeswine

*wine list*

Major WINE LIST WOLF MAN


ordered the Seville orange kit //will duplicate it .

ordered a tangerine /voignier sounded tasty,will also duplicate it,just for kicks...

TRYIING TO GET PICS UP SOON...


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## Runningwolf

joeswine said:


> Major WINE LIST WOLF MAN
> 
> 
> ordered the Seville orange kit //will duplicate it .
> 
> *ordered a tangerine /voignier sounded tasty,will also duplicate it,just for kicks...:*pic
> 
> TRYIING TO GET PICS UP SOON...



That does sound tasty to me also. Make it now and that just might be a great Christmas wine give away. I try to make one simple kit every year just for that reason. 

Kicks huh? High alcohol and mix with tonic water and ice or maybe a shot of vodka or ever clear? Kicks are for kids, silly wabbit!


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## joeswine

*cellos*

ON the next addition of when good wines gone bad,I'm going to start a short on how to make cello's,will also try for pics,this week,have to make arrangements for some aid in getting them done and on line thats not my stronger suit (computers),should prove interresting..


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## joeswine

*Almond wine*

GETTING READY TO ADD PICS,AND START THE ALMOND WINE SAGA,iM GOING TO ROAST MY ALMONDS WHOLE ,THEN MAKE A EXTRACT OF THEM AND TAKE IT FROM THERE ,FOR THE FAINT OF HEART THIS WILL NOT BE FOR YOU ,BUT FOR THE ADVENTURERS IN SOME OF USE STAYED TOON.PICS TO FOLLOW..


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## Redtrk

joeswine, May the force be with you!  I would love to make this but I don't have the time right now that I would need to give it enough attention to turn out right.


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## joeswine

*almond wine*

NOT TO FEAR 


just stay tooned and it will either unfold or clasp,which ever comes first


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## Tom

Joe,
U get the meeting address


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## joeswine

*addy*

YES>SAEEYOU THERE


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## joeswine

*no time?*

REDTRK


non of this is hard and the time is -on its own when your making wine,plan your work and work your plan..theres always timen


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## joeswine

*Almond wine*

MY THE NUTS BE WITH YOU


started the almond wine last night actually had a video made on it but couldn't post it as yet,roasted a quart of whole almonds at 225 degrees for 15 minutes,then left set in the oven till I was ready for them,added them back to the ball jar and added everkleer to the top,I'll let this set for about a month and see what type of extract I can up with,if alls well at that point,then I'll either buy a cheap white wine kit or if I wait till the California wines come in and get one then,I like the idea of a cheap wine kit its faster and balanced....great for my experiment.....


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## joeswine

*almond wine*

THE START


last night I smelled the almond extract and it starting to work ,didn't think it would but it has,at this point there is no oil floating or smell other than a lite odor of almonds,,,still in process


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## joeswine

*almond extract*

hello


from the beginning post to now there should have been vast improvement in the extract ,but not really,so I will remove the almonds from the everclear and grind them up then replace them with the everclear and see what happens ,if you don't try you won't know..


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## joeswine

*It did'nt happen*

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD



WELL THAT DIDN'T DO WHAT I EXPECTED IT TO BUT NEVE FEAR THE GAMES A FOOT,TIME TO CRUSH THESE LITTLE GEMS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS THEN....


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## Midwest Vintner

I would like to try almond wine. I have done peanut wine before and then mixed it with concord wine . Worked great. Nuts are very difficult to extract flavor from.


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## joeswine

*almond wine revisited*

I agree this has been the hardest extraction so far but I'm not done yet,plan B..crush the nuts place them back into the everkleer and see what transpires....any other suggestions?


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## joeswine

*Peach wine*

LAST OF THE PEACHES


COULDN'T PASS UP THIS OFFER 40LBS OF PEACHES FOR A QUICK CKECK OF THE ORCHARDS MAIN FURNACE...I REALLY DIDN'T WANT THEM BUT THEY WERE BEAUTIFUL AND READY FOR WINE...SO THERE THEY WERE AND THERE I WAS AND COULDN'T SAY NO...THE ALMOND EXTRACT HASN'T DONE WHAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD DO SO I NEED TO CRUSH MY NUTS YES I WILL CRUSH MY ALMONDS AND IF THAT DON'T DO IT I WILL NEED TO HIT THE DRAWING BOARD FOR SOME TOP OF THE LINRE PURE EXTRACT AND MOVE FORWARDip THESE ARE THE TRICKS OF THE TRADE


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## joeswine

*Jersey peaches*

FRUITS OF MY LABOR

WELL STARTED THE PEACHES ALONG WITH THE FRUIT FLIES THAT THEY CAME WITH AND THE RELATIVES THEY INVITED ALONG,(DOWN SIDE TO FRUIT MAKING),WASHED ALL THE FRUIT ,DE STONES IT AND PLACED IT IN MY CUISINART PROCESSOR,TO MAKE IT FINE,AND IT DID,AFTER PLACEING ALL THE FRUIT AND PECTIN EMELYNE IN TO THE 8 GALLON FERMENTER AND LET IS SIT FOR 24HRS,NICE BREAKDOWN , WHAT A AROMA( REMEMBER THE LIQUID GOLD WADE) THIS BATCH IS GOING TO BE THAT QUALITY I FEEL IT...AFTER THE 24HRS I ADDED MY YEAST- RED STAR AND LET IT GO TO A PLACED WHERE IT ONCE TO BE, TOWEL ON TOP ,DID I TELL YOU HOW I GET READ OF THE FRUIT FLIES, ,WELL I OPEN A BOTTLE OF WINE TURN ON THE TV (ALL IN THE MANCAVE) CUT SOME CHEESE AND PEPPERONI AND OLIVES AND EVERY NOW AND THEN LOOK OVER TO THE TUBS WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT AND THE CROWD HAS GATHERED I TURN ON THE 5 HP SHOP VAC AND AWAY THEY GOOOOOOOO..PAINLESS...


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## joeswine

*A good night*

 


A VERY GOOD NIGHT FOR ME AT THE VINELAND WINE FESTIVAL AND CONTEST TOOK FIRST PLACE WITH MY RASSBERRY WINE AND SECOND PLACE WITH MY WHITE ZIN /POMAGRANET


COULD HAVE DONE BETTER BUT THERES ALWAYS NEXT YEAR........THE ZIN POM WAS STYLED AFTER THE KIT WINE BUY THE SAME NAME ,REMEMBER I STATED I WOULD BUY A KIT I THOUGHT I COULD DUPLICATE AND DO IT ,WELL THIS IS ONE OF MANY I HAVE DONE / THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX....NEXT STEP CELLARMASTERS..


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## joeswine

*Whats Going On*

 


WORK IN PROGRESS

THE PLUM IS AT PEACE WITH ITSELF RESTING AFTER A SHORT BUT STRONG FERMENTATION,THE PEACH IS READY TO JOIN IT ON ITS WAY TO A BETTER PLACE IN THE CARBOYS OF LIFE,BOTH THE CA. CHARD AND THE ITY SAOVE ARE HARD AT WORK ENJOYING THE VIGOROUS MESSAGE THAT THE YEAST IS PROVIDING AND WILL ALSO BE RETIRING TO TO THE CALM AND PEACE OF THE GLASS VESSEL,ONLY TO BE AWAKEN TO THE SOUNDS OF TIMBER AND FRUIT ATTENDING THEIR NEEDS,HA NOTHING LIKE BEING A GOOD WINE AND HAVING ALL YOUR NEEDS TAKEN CAR OF


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## SarahRides

I just bottled my almond wine today, it is just under a year old. The almond flavor is very subtle (I might not even know it was there if I didn't know it was in there), but it still tastes pretty good!


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## joeswine

*almond wine*

 SHARA,i CAN UNDERSTAND THE MILD TASTE OF THE ALMONDS (TO USE A BETTER ADJUSTIVE) AND I THINK WHAT I'm ABOUT TO TELL YOU WILL EITHER SAY (WHAT NO WAY) OR MAKE SOME OF THE OTHER WINES MAKERS OUT THERE HAVE A HEART ATTACK.



GO ON LINE AND SHOP FOR PURE ALMOND EXTRACT (NOT ARTIFICIALLY FLAVORED) AND PREPARED YOUR SELF FOR RE BOTTLING ,THEN IN A BIG POT OR WHAT EVER AMOUNT YOUR GOING TO WORK FIRST ADD THE WINE THEN THE ALMOND EXTRACT(TO TASTE),IF NEED SIMPLE SYRUP IF DESIRED ADD A PINCH MORE KMET LETS IT SET AND WATCH AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE EFFORT YOU HAVE PUT FORTH ,THIS IS A TRICK i LEARNED FROM A WINERY HERE IN NJ,WHO'S I MIGHT ADD ALMOND WINE IS SUPERIOR,TO ANY i HAVE EVER HAD.

THIS EXTRACT IS NOW YOUR FPAC,GOT IT! STAY IN TOUCH.


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## joeswine

*crushed my nuts*

 well crushing the almonds did"t make any difference (or very little) so I'm back to the suggestion i gave Shara,,,cheap kit smooth it out a little and pure almond extra.... it works


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## joeswine

*my nuts are crushed*

MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IF i left them whole or crushed them,it could be the way they were processd before purchase?


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## joeswine

*cheap wine kit*

:: well the fact that the extract from the almonds didn't work out won't defeat me since the wines are not available to make at present i think i will get a voignier kit and let that be my base and add the extract to it in the end.

WHY VOIGNIER,this wine has the ability to be a camilian,its and excellent wine on its own,but as a base wine its works well,good color,always a good flavor and decent body,so voignier it is,the games a foot


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## joeswine

*Work gets in the way*

 WELL WEATHER YOU KNOW OR DON'T KNOW I'M A HEATING AND AC/CONTRACTOR AND ITS HAS BEEN A STEADY BARRAGE OF NO HEAT CALLS HERE IN SOUTH JERSEY AND NO TIME FOR THE WINE ,THE BASEMENT IS GETTING COLDER AROUND 65DEGREES AND MOST ITEMS ARE STABLE ,THE COLD AT LEAST HELPS CLEARING ,,,,BY SUNDAY IF ALL GOES WELL I'll BE BACK....


GOT MY COFFEE PORT IN CAN'T WAIT TO START THAT ONE...TALKE TO YOU SOON ..


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## joeswine

*Cellos and the art of*

GOING TO DO A SHORT ON THE MAKING OF CELLOS,STAY TUNED


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## joeswine

*New things to try*

*Remember when I was talking about using the zest to enhance the flavor of wine well had started to make a little video and it didn't turn out so good basically because I couldn't figure out how to get onto the site so I did at that time was used orange zest and showing how to make a zest base, and then in turn took the zest and added it to my Melbec, then I what about the basic process of layering first of the chips in with the dust only this time I left the Chip's and added the orange zest well it's been about two months and yesterday my friend kito, and I redound stairs wracking wine which I'll get to add another time, so as always part of the work is tasting, the two words that came out of kito's mouth was my God and I thought terribly wrong but it wasn he said the wine was excellent full body, great flavor, so when I tried it I understood, I thought the orange zest would give it a kind of sangria affect but it didn't it mellows itself into the body of the wine and gave such a unique flavor so I pass this on to you don't be afraid to try using the zest whether with a white wine or redwines you cannot go wrong.*


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## Tom

Joe,
How many oranges did you zest for the malbec?
I have a malbec under MLF now so, when should I add it. Also gonna add med toast chips next recking. (gotta get some oak powder)


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## joeswine

*Good to Hear from You,*

 I added the zest of two oranges really came out great, Tom remember can do this at any time after primary so it's never too late glad to see you trying to do layering, it does work melbec is a good wine to make with it can lead itself sweet or dry it anywhere between you know me I'm pretty on Orthodox in my ways, but the next time I see you I'll bring you a bottle.

And yes you do have to get yourself some powdered Oak, it will help nobody structure into the wine no doubt.r


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## joeswine

*Taking time off*

Have been down the cellar to do anything worthwhile to tell you about be working on the street but have at least five kits(fun kits(start one of which is my coffee port, that should be fun. Talk to you soon JP


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## joeswine

*Fix it kit*

 WELL I KNOW IF YOUR LIKE ME AND HAVE NEVER MADE A OFF WINE ,AND I KNOW THATS A VERY OFF CHANCE,BUT IF YOU DID AND I KNOW I NEVER HAD ,WHAT DO YOU HAVE AROUND TO FIX IT WITH,REMEMBERING THIS IS JUST A OFF CHANCE.

HERES WHAT i HAVE IN MY FIX-IT TOOL BOX

FIRST ,RED GRAPE CONCENTRATE AND WHITE,GLUCOSE FOR BODY BUILDING,GLYCERIN FOR THE CELLOS,EXTRACTS=ORANGE,LEMON,CITRUS CINNAMON AND COFFEE,ACID BLEND,SUPER KLEER,FRENCH OAK CHIPS,POWDERED OAK(FOR LAYERING),FROM WHOLE FOODS PURE VARIETAL GRAPE JUICE IN VACUUM PACK,A LITTLE EXTREME,BUT HAY THATS ME..AND MAYBE A FEW ITEMS MORE?

HAVING THIS AT THE READY HAS AIDED ME MANY A TIME,KNOWING WHEN AND HOW HAS BEEN TRIAL AND ERROR....ALWAYS A LEARNING CURVE.

WHATS IN YOURS???????????????


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## saramc

*Almonds....*

I have added blanched, toasted whole almonds to my chocolate cherry wine. Took raw almonds (freshest source online, love the place: www.nutsonline.com), blanched them quickly with boiling water then dropped them into ice water to stop the heat. Immediately removed the ice water and then holding the almond with the smaller point between thumb and forefinger gave a gentle squeeze to remove the skin....whole almond intact. If any split into half, no problem, used them anyway. Made sure almonds were very dry (dab, dab, dab with paper towel) and then into a preheated 425F oven on silicone liner. Turned them after 6 minutes and at about the 10 minute mark I was smelling toasted almonds. Promptly removed from the heat and transferred them to an elevated wire rack that had a floursack towel on it, gave them a good rub with the towel to grab any residual oil and then allowed them to cool to room temperature. Added them to my wine during secondary ferment....I will remove them once they sink to the bottom of the secondary...I am at the 3 week mark and only a few have sunk. I added 1 cup per gallon.

_Thought about incorporating their flavor by making an almond liqueur & finishing the wine port-style. This recipe can be adapted for use with any nut.

1 cup light brown sugar (for pecans or walnuts, may opt for dark)
1/2 cup water
750ml good brandy (E&J VSOP)
1 cup blanched, slivered and well toasted almonds
1 1/2 tsp vanilla, optional
1/4 tsp cinnamon, optional

Make a simple syrup by combining the sugar and water on stove top, bring to boil and then simmer until all sugar is dissolved...stir frequently. Allow to cool to room temperature. Combine remaining ingredients and transfer to glass jar with sealable lid. Steep for at least 6 weeks and then strain liquid into appropriate container. Do not discard nuts as they can be incorporated into muffins, fruit cakes, used as ice cream topping, etc.
This is great using toasted, chopped pecans or walnuts._


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## joeswine

*almond wine revisited*

Sounds thought out , please let me know what the depth of the extract was, keep me informed let me know if it worked, I like to try it that way. Thanks for reading the thread. Simple syrup is something I always on hand and make it in a two to one ratio.


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## joeswine

*Kito and the sugar mavin*


 MY FRIEND KITO WILL BE OVER TONIGHT TO REVIEW HIS WINE AND MORE THAN LIKELY HE'LL WANT TO BACK-SWEETEN IT ,SHUTTER THE THOUGHT,BUT ITS HIS WINE AND IM JUST A GUIDE FOR HIM AS HE WORKS HIS WAY DOWN THE BOTTLING TRAIL,'LL ALSO LET HIM TASTE ms.T WINE AND WE'LL COMPARE HIS FINDINGS WITH LUCILLE'S FINDINGS.


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## robie

On special occasions, my wife and I buy and serve almond Champagne. I don't see why an almond Chardonnay would not be an excellent wine. Maybe I'll try making one one later.


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## joeswine

*Almond wine*

\\\



I agree with you, the use of almond extract with any white wine should prove quite pleasing, even though my almond extract did not work out I believe that I can still make a good, almond wine if I can't find the proper or a 100% pure almond extract. Recently I have purchased and inexpensive Riesling and was going to use almond extract to finish, but my wife saw that the Riesling was finished started extracting bottles of wine from the stock.

Tonight keto was over and work on his Chardonnay, he wanted to back sweetness a little this was the Chardonnay that we do with what reasons and a slight taste of liquid oak, the wine has great body good taste as far as I was concerned, didn't need to be back sweet. But he added a cup a simple syrup we took and SG reading, will check it in a week we also added a package superkleer and will take from their. We also tasted of my stock a raspberry Shiraz 2007, and Ontario ice wine from 2007, and I let him take a bottle of Isabella to try at home, by the way he also took the above with him. Guess you could say keto had a very fruitful evening.


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## lloyd

I know this is kind of a cheat but I made some sparkling almond/ apple wine. by first making my apple wine. fermenting it to dry. then adding a bottle of Amoretto to the 5 gal batch. and keging it. after about two weeks in the keg I bottled it in champagne bottles. Every one loved it.


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## robie

lloyd said:


> I know this is kind of a cheat but I made some sparkling almond/ apple wine. by first making my apple wine. fermenting it to dry. then adding a bottle of Amoretto to the 5 gal batch. and keging it. after about two weeks in the keg I bottled it in champagne bottles. Every one loved it.



That sounds really good.


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## joeswine

*Cheating*

In this business that were IN ,making wine at home I don't believe being creative can be called cheating, is being creative in my point of view. What ever flavor combination you choose to create, which ever way you choose to achieve that flavor combination is okay in my book, I think being out there on the edge is harder and more trying, then being safe all the time, and besides it gets boring, don't. You think, it keeps things interesting, so don't stop being creative ,you'll never know what gem you may end up with in the bottle.

It's time to move on, with good wines gone bad. 2012 edition


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## joeswine

*Kito*

Remember, I stated kito was coming over to work on the Chardonnay, it had good body(it was done with white raisins) a little liquid oak, great taste, and the aroma. But of course he had to back-sweeten once again, it is his wine and his flavor profile, can speak bad about a man for that, his wife also likes the wine relatively sweet,. We first course filter the wine just so you would have a good clean base to start with, then he added the simple syrup 1 cup and a pinch of kmet and superkleer, the wine is almost all clear and it only took 24 hours, not bad. In a few days time to he'll come back and bottle and start his next kit, this of course the above was from juice from California.


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## joeswine

*Almond wine*

n
WELL I ABANDON MY QUEST FOR ALMOND WINE OUT OF ALMONDS,NOW I WILL RESEARCH ALMOND EXTRACT AND SEE WHAT IS THE PUREST I CAN PURCHASE...BLEND THAT WITH A A DECENT QUALITY 2WHITE THIS SPRING AND SEE WHAT THAT BUYS ME.WHAT DO YOU THINK?


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## cfmiller

Wow...will def be trying this in the fall when I get a bit more experience and the fresh almonds start to arrive!


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## joeswine

*Cellos*

Well are South Jersey winemakers wine meeting went quite well, we had about 15 to 20 people show good food and good wines, the topic is extracts and fpacs,,,,,,,,,,, but I did was I had my samplings of all the extracts that I had made, I explain the usage of the extract as well as how to make them, the usage of zest, and how to extract it from the fruit using Everclear to extract the essence from the citrus such as oranges grapefruits and lemons and limes also I showed the group coffee extractions , cinnamon extract and vanilla bean............

We had some hands-on demonstrations, plus taste cellos, and a BlackBerry fpacs added it to my MELbec.. Showed the two processes the cooking process and a fresh made process: two different types of fpacs.

We had a great time, good food and good wine.


----------



## joeswine

*Starting the process*

Will be starting my coffee coffee port very soon and my banana viognier............................ I noticed quite a few people out there already when I made coffee port, I will post my progress, but how about the banana pineapple viognier?............. any comments?


----------



## non-grapenut

joeswine said:


> n
> WELL I ABANDON MY QUEST FOR ALMOND WINE OUT OF ALMONDS,NOW I WILL RESEARCH ALMOND EXTRACT AND SEE WHAT IS THE PUREST I CAN PURCHASE...BLEND THAT WITH A A DECENT QUALITY 2WHITE THIS SPRING AND SEE WHAT THAT BUYS ME.WHAT DO YOU THINK?



Don't give up~ Any nut wine is do-able as long as you rack the heck out of it and leave the floating rancid oil behind.


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## joeswine

*two sisters*

 THERE IS A WINERY DO HERE IN SJ..THAT MAKES A EXCELLENT ALMOND WINE SO GOOD IN FACT MY WIFE AND i BOUGHT TWO BOTTLES AT THE EVENT WE FINISHED ONE AT THE TASTING AND THE OTHER ONE SHORTLY AFTER,THEY USED PRUE ALMOND EXTRACT...i WILL DO THE SAME AND FORWARD YOU A BOTTLE AS SOON A S MY BASE IS DONE.. 


SOME THINGS ARE BEST TO BE KEEP SIMPLE


----------



## mrzazz

So how are you making your base? After your base you're just going to add almond extract? I was going to try that also. Could you give me the recipe that you are using? Thanks


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## joeswine

*, Almond wine*

I'm not sure I understand the question, my base will be some form of a cheap wine kit, white wine that is, it doesn't matter what type for after it's done fermenting and and just before clearing that's when I'll and are I almond extract of which have yet to determine which is the best grade, but if you stay with the thread I'll let you know just as soon as I find but it will have to be the best on the market. Stated


----------



## joeswine

*Racking the kits*

WELL ,LAST NIGHT i RACKED MY PINA COLADA,SEVILLE ORANGE SANGRIA AND MOJOTO,WHEN YOU MAKE A MANUFACTURED KIT PRODUCT ITS A PRUDENT TO DO AS INSTRUCTED THEY KNOW WHAT THERE END PRODUCT SHOULD BE,ALL THREE KITS WERE RIGHT ON TARGET,APPLIED THE CHEMS. TO THE SECONDARY AND FINDINGS AS DIRECTED,AFTER ITS COMPLETED i MIGHT MAKE CHANGES,THE OTHER 3 KITS,RESILING,PIESPORTED ANDPINO GRIS ,i ADDED THE CHEMS AND FIRST STAGE OF THE CLEARRING AGENTS,,THE I WILL RE-SUPERKLEER AGAIN...AS i WAS DOING THIS IN MY CELLAR i WAS ALSO MAKING DINNER FOR US,ITS GREAT TO HAVE A MAN CAVE WITH ALL THE CREATURE COMFORTS OF A KITCHEN AT YOUR DISPOSAL.


----------



## joeswine

*the count down continues*

AND the beat goes on,last night was a big move on for the wine making here we reviewed several wines as to disposition,and worked on the following

 THE RESLING,PINO GRIS and PIESPORTER,got a dose of supper kleer,this will send them on their way to final stages,,the mojoto,Cosmo and orange sangria,got there doses of k met,sobate and finding agent,there on there way to a 10 day waiting period and the finals.


Always something to do


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## joeswine

*Less we forget*

Say by the way, I didn't forget about, the almond wine will be getting back to that real soon the first of 10 other carboys that have to take care of and have my peach Plum combination that I think is really young, and is really going to come out nice. We'll get back


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## Sammyk

I followed the recipe on February 2nd. SG was 1.090 and pitched K1-1116 the next day. on 2/08 the SG was down to 1.010 so I racked to 2 1-gallon carboys, I made 2 gallons.
I did roast the almonds

On 2/20 even though there did not appear to be any fermentation I added the sugar 1/2 cup dissolved in a bit of warmed water per gallon.

Re-fermentation did not re-start.

I have not racked a 3rd time because I am not sure what to do. I did put the raisins and almonds in a mesh bag and removed them when I did the first racking. They were great on oatmeal!

I just looked at it today and it is fairly clear with some sediment. I have no idea what to do now except maybe rack again and wait it out?


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## Sammyk

I did taste a bit of it a little while ago and can taste alcohol, so I don't think it is bad. And I did not have the oil on top like most spoke of


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## joeswine

*almond wine/sammy*

 when I get home tonight I'll be sure to get back to you and try to help out..talk to you tonight............joe


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## joeswine

*Sammy K*

I didn't forget you, but it takes me time to get around the things. I stated in the thread that I could not get a response from the comments I was looking for and I think that's because these are only process, now what I did is when online and try to find the purest form of almond extract. I could, with this in hand, I will make myself a cheap white wine kit because it's going to be balanced, it will take less time and I will have an end product within 60, 90 days, I'm going to use the white wine as my base in the almond extract. As my fpacs, get it. To sum it might seem like cheating, but believe me in this business is always a taste. The end justifies the means. Unless you're purest in that case you will be reading this thread, so forget about making one gallon batches or two down the hatches. If you can't buy yourself an expensive one wine kit, goingon olivenation.com and buy yourself a$7.95 bottle up your almond extract, follow directions on the kit at the end of the process, if you put your chemicals and let it settle out to the specific gravity reading, and your almond extract to taste...... but it settle out to another specific gravity reading, ready to go .................... try this on for size the work


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## joeswine

*Coffee port*

 ONE OF THE WINES I HAVE SITTING IN THE WINGS IS MY COFFEE PORT,BEFORE I START, I WANTED A PLAN ,SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO SEPARATE IT FROM THE CROWD,I THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND CAME UP WITH THIS PLAN.
FIRST THE LABELS ,I SEARCH AND FOUND A GOOD LABEL AT WINE TOY STORE, NEED TO SEE IF GEORGE CAN DO THIS .,BOUGHT THE KIT FROM THEIR,NEXT THE BOTTLES,WANTED SOMETHING DIFFERENT,LOOK AROUND AND AROUND AND FINIALLY CAME UP WITH SWING TOP AMBER BALE WIRE GLASS BOTTLE...............NOW THE PORT HAS A GOOD HOME WHEN ITS FINISHED............... .THATS THE PLAN


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## joeswine

*Coffee port*

THE PLAN IS UNDERWAY, I GOT THE LABELS I WANTED AND ARE ON THEIR WAY FROM THE TOY STORE NEXT THE BOTTLES .


----------



## joeswine

*The bubbly*

As you know I'm always thinking outside the box . Sometimes that's good sometimes it's not so good but it's my way ,. I picked up this weekend a millennium wine kit, this is a white wine champagne kit .now in the past I have made champagne and it was reasonably good the Asti style champagne .. This is a white wine kit I'm going to follow the process to the letter and see how this turns out ,. If this turns out have decent then the plan will be in the fall, when the California fresh juice comes in . I'm going to buy 6 gallons of Pinot Noir, process. This exactly like the millennia kit in every way .

The best campaign I have ever tasted was a dom peridone, it was a 50-year-old bottle not very old for this wine , the next best wine the champagne that I taste the Pinot Noir, California , so if I do this right,. then I'll know I'm on the right track, but this is down the road, going to do my coffee port first, and that won't happen until I get back from vacation , so you won't from hear from me until then, so until then – *think* *outside thethe box. *


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## joeswine

*Time to take a break*

 It's time for me to sign off for a while, just before the air-conditioning season starts. I usually take a sabbatical ,, but I want to leave you these thoughts ,. Thank you for listening *and always think outside the box *


----------



## joeswine

*Good to be back*

It's good to be back from a trip for New Mexico ,great place. Lots of history, lots of good beer drinking the bloody Mary drinking ,there to my favorites of the wine .

Cleaned up before one away, . So will start soon glad to see some you stayed in tune ............ talk you soon as I started.


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## joeswine

*Sunday crush*

There's a great advantage and having a wine group ,we here at the South Jersey winemakers and a very broad-based membership ,. Two of those people in our wine are Joe and Lori ,they're opening up a fledgling winery in the very near future called South winds their wine master is a person call Jamie. On Saturday Lori wrote to us and was asking if anyone want to help out with the crush at the winery and so my wife and I replied *yes ,we end up processing 5000 pounds of grapes divided up into two categories, the first were Chardonnay and the second was Cabernet .. Once we got there we found out they have already done 3000 pounds of grapes the day before so they were rolling right along. My job on the crush was to be a rackman.*
*G *
what does a rakeman do ? He continuously moves stems from under the destemmer crusher so that there is no build up, as a person was filling the hopper continues to move load grapes ..and this doesn't sound very prestigious position. as fast as they Loading. . The grapes and hopper. ..The stems came out. The bottom. a A so what went. f F five hours. a A then I pressure washed. t T Detemmer crusher.... After that mess. I was completely stuck to myself,.. b B Lucille my were very hungry. . So we. w Wt. t Tthe Greek restaurant,. w Wh a bottle of wine. a A have a ball.. .Nothing like good friend........


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## joeswine

*The right side of Texas*

T Tony, excellent wine ,great color deep ,nice heavy legs, good tannic aroma, very dry, coats the tongue . Overall it's a great wine, if you let this set for two more years it will be exceptional. I think it has the body to do that ,nice kit I compared to mine - having something to complement. It's is a2008, our colors were about the same alcohol was about the same my was liter in tannic acid and aroma but fruitier.not as dry but that's the way make it. 


I don't know if you can hold off for, two more years like I said it's a great wine , in one months time I'll do the little bottle, till then............... *think outside the box.......... thanks for your support*
* Joe if you try the( we) amarone kit and add the layers of oak and powered oak,plus rasins the turn around is one year plus,good overall product in the end...yours was very good ,my fine vine friend stay the course.......yours always jp..I don't know about you but five years or so is to long for me to wait,,I could forget by then what I was waiting for*


----------



## RCGoodin

*Almond Wine recipes using almond extract.*



joeswine said:


> I'm not sure I understand the question, my base will be some form of a cheap wine kit, white wine that is, it doesn't matter what type for after it's done fermenting and and just before clearing that's when I'll and are I almond extract of which have yet to determine which is the best grade, but if you stay with the thread I'll let you know just as soon as I find but it will have to be the best on the market. Stated


 
Ok, I need an update. Was a cheap white chosen, fermented and then almond extract added for the second fermentation (similar to an fpack)?

I just started a cheap Chardonnay from Amazon. Six gallons of juice. I'd like to strip off a gallon for experimentation. I'd like to add the almond extract. I'm curious if I should add the extract until I like the taste, or if I add to the taste I like, will the wine keep that flavor over time. Should I plan a little extra upfront and assume over time the wine will be more subtle or smooth out the almond taste?

When I went to the internet I found Almond extract and plenty of other extracts, usually sold in 4 oz quantities around 8-10 bucks. There was a coffee extract that I thought should work well with a coffee port recipe.

I'm looking for all comments and suggestions regarding using these extracts as fpacks. What do you think?


----------



## joeswine

*almond extracts*

 I bought mine at SAMS club,taste is all that matters,making the blend,one gallon batch,in a large soup pot put the wine in first then add the extract to taste buy more extact then you think you'll need ,(you can always use it for something else)then add to taste.I think your going to enjoy it alot,chilled,the coffee extract is correct a good extra or additive for port ,if I ever get around to making my COFFEE PORT WINE i have a bottle of coffee extract to continplate with,also take your coffee extract and evercleer ,plus some simple syurp and make a coffee cello ,great anytime ice cold...................excellent work


----------



## RCGoodin

Thanks Joe. How did the almond wine taste? Does the coffee cello need to ferment, or is it good to go after the mix.


----------



## joeswine

*good to the last drop*

the almond wine is great ,remember its to my taste,(that is a phase not to be confused with (I'm not sure how it should taste ,because I don't now the charismatics of the wine I'm trying to make,got it,but fun wines are just that fun,so invest in a gallon ,experiment and have a BALL.

If you can before you make the coffee cello,using your extract,know this when I make mine and thats often,I first use espresso coffee as my liquid base,then mix in my coffee bean extract(which is easy to make )then the evercleer or vodka,and finally simple syrup.

TO TASTE..........EXPRESSO,SIMPLE SYRUP,BEAN EXTRACT,AND EVERKLEER...........DO THIS ONCE AND I GUARANTEE YOU YOU'LL LOVE IT AND DO IT AGAIN. NO fermentation,let it set for one month and enjoy ,you'll see it will take on a chocolate flavor also just great.


----------



## RCGoodin

*Almond Wine*

Thanks Joe. I'll update this on both the Almond wine and cello.


----------



## RCGoodin

joeswine said:


> the almond wine is great ,remember its to my taste,(that is a phase not to be confused with (I'm not sure how it should taste ,because I don't now the charismatics of the wine I'm trying to make,got it,but fun wines are just that fun,so invest in a gallon ,experiment and have a BALL.
> 
> If you can before you make the coffee cello,using your extract,know this when I make mine and thats often,I first use espresso coffee as my liquid base,then mix in my coffee bean extract(which is easy to make )then the evercleer or vodka,and finally simple syrup.
> 
> TO TASTE..........EXPRESSO,SIMPLE SYRUP,BEAN EXTRACT,AND EVERKLEER...........DO THIS ONCE AND I GUARANTEE YOU YOU'LL LOVE IT AND DO IT AGAIN. NO fermentation,let it set for one month and enjoy ,you'll see it will take on a chocolate flavor also just great.


 
Hi Joe,

I bought the almond extract from Sam's club. I put a little on my tounge to taste it, and it burned. More than I thought it would. I'm assuming that when I add this to my Chardennay, a little goes a long way. I'll start by a tablespoon at a time.

Hey, the coffee cello, what amounts of each ingredient do I add?


----------



## joeswine

*Almond extract*

By all means, go slow taste as you go remember chilled is even better and less pronounced more almond you'll taste ,straight to the togen I guess it would have, a bite.......... experiment now do fine .


----------



## joeswine

*Need feed back*

THE NEXT WINE TO MAKE WILL BE MY COFFEE PORT ,I KNOW THERE ARE QUITE A FEW OF USE WHO HAVE MADE THIS PORT . MY QUESTION IS HOW DID YOURS FINISH OUT? WHAT DID IT LACK,HOW WAS THE FINISH TEXTURE? WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENT IN THE BEGINNING TO ENHANCE THE FINAL TASTE?OR WAS IT JUST RIGHT


----------



## RCGoodin

joeswine said:


> By all means, go slow taste as you go remember chilled is even better and less pronounced more almond you'll taste ,straight to the togen I guess it would have, a bite.......... experiment now do fine .


 
I split out a gallon of my Chardonnay for Almond experimentation, leaving 5 gallons of Chardonnay as per kit instructions.

In 16oz of water I added 2 teaspoons of Almond extract. It was room temperature and I could taste a little almond. So, I calculated 9 teaspoons for a gallon and that equated to 3 tablespoons. I added the 3 tablespoons and did a little taste test and the almond flavor was plentiful. I think the next time I will do my taste test after the water is chilled.

So the gallon is in secondary fermentation. I wonder how best to clarify and stabalize a gallon. Any suggestions out there.

I would also like opinions on adding oak to both the 1 gal and 5 gallons. Should I?

Also, I thought about adding a little sugar syrup after stabalizing to cut the stronger Almond taste. Any thoughts.

Also, I now filter all my wines, so would filtering take a little Almond taste out of the final proeduct? Any thougths.

Ok, I know what you're thinking, why so many questions? Right?

Well, in closing, Happy Father's Day to all you fathers.


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## joeswine

*almond questions*

1.Iwould have made a base of simple syurp and extrac to taste.first place the gallon in a large pot,add extract and simple syurp to taste..,siperkleer is always my finding agent of choice,it very effective,,if all is incorporated ,fitering in the end after finding can be adjusted with little effect over all.............great to see you are experimenting,thinking out side the box..being creative is what this hobbies alll about,...oak is a matter of choice,for me its the almond I want to taste nothing else...thats your preferrence..............................please keep me in formed as to your experiment..


----------



## joeswine

*Piesporter*

Once I made elderberry Chardonnay , it was outstanding, meeting with dry elderberry flowers in California, Chardonnay . For the year it took to ferment and clear in winter wonderful transformation the wine itself was excellent and body, texture and flavor dried elderberry flowers were outstanding and the wine , this is my first venture . We dry flowers . 

This piesporter was another adventure using dried elderberry flowers in the wine , is kit came with a fpacs and in itself reminded me of the elderberry Chardonnay made , having the dried elderberry flowers in refrigerator I enhanced the wine the small handful of the herb . once again I surprise myself how delicate , interesting and flavorful . This wine turned out . using different types of herbs and dried flowers , is another area of winemaking that you should discover .


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## Sammyk

We just checked our almond wine on Saturday and it was awesome even though it is still "young". Nice and clear too so it went back under the house in the crawl space to age until fall.


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## joeswine

*Samples?????????????????????????*

DID YOU TAKE A TASTE/???????????????


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## Sammyk

Joe, is you are talking to me, yest we both and a big sip and it was great. Going to do another batch some time this summer. Too many other fresh fruits available now to do more Almond.


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## RCGoodin

UPDATE: I stabilized and cleared the gallon of Chardonnay that I added Almond extract too. The tasting of the wine was good and it had the aroma of Almond and the taste of Almond. I felt the taste was at the max, so next time I would try 2 tablespoons of the extract instead of three. I bought a 12 pack of 1 oz extract from Amazon so I added a tablespoon of the orange extract to see if it would make the Almond taste a little less. So, it's going through secondary fermentation and I'll give another update in a couple of weeks.

Any thoughts on this from anyone?


----------



## joeswine

*Experamentaion and compromize*

ADDING and subtracting ,experimenting and trying that's what, it's all about,, then you'll fine a common ground for your taste and still have the wine flavor your going after in the end. not something else,I don't think the orange extract will cut the almond ,if anything it will add its own enhancement to the mix,,ask yourself this,IS THE ALMOND TO STRONGE ,IF SO THE ANSWER WOULD BE TO CUT IT WITH MORE WINE,  MY BE BY JUST A BOTTLE OR TWO AND THE BALANCE WILL WORK ITSELF OUT.....THATS WHAT I WOULD DO NOT TO LOSE THE WINE I WANTED TO CREATE IN THE END.


----------



## RCGoodin

joeswine said:


> ADDING and subtracting ,experimenting and trying that's what, it's all about,, then you'll fine a common ground for your taste and still have the wine flavor your going after in the end. not something else,I don't think the orange extract will cut the almond ,if anything it will add its own enhancement to the mix,,ask yourself this,IS THE ALMOND TO STRONGE ,IF SO THE ANSWER WOULD BE TO CUT IT WITH MORE WINE,  MY BE BY JUST A BOTTLE OR TWO AND THE BALANCE WILL WORK ITSELF OUT.....THATS WHAT I WOULD DO NOT TO LOSE THE WINE I WANTED TO CREATE IN THE END.


 
Hi Joe,

The almond flavor was at it's max, therefore I wanted to soften it a little. Well if the orange adds a new flavor that would be great. I have another week before it's ready to bottle so I'll do a taste test then and if I have to thin it, I'll add some of the standard Chardonnay to it.

I have an apple/cranberry going from cans of concentrate. It didn't taste like much so I added a tablespoon of coconut extract to that. The smell is great.

I like the new extracts. The kit of twelve came with a coffee one that I'm going to use for expresso in the recipe you gave me. I have to go back through these threads to get an idea of what all goes in it. I'll let you know the various amounts of each ingredient before I proceed.

Overall I'm doing ok as a new vintner and I want to thank you for all your assistance and encouragement.

Happy 4th of July to ya....


----------



## RCGoodin

Bottled the Chardonnay, the Orange Almond Chardonnay and the Coconut Cranberry Rose.

The Chardonnay's were excellent. The Almond was great and at its maximum with a slight hint of orange. I'm assuming the orange could come out a little more with aging. The standard Chardonnay was a big hit with the wife. I thought it was very smooth with a great finish.

The Cranberry was the first from frozen concentrates and was ok for me but my wife liked it. Go figure.

I ordered a Gewurtztraminer and a Australian Semillon. They should be here this week. This week I'm stabalizing the Milk Chocolate Strawberry Port and the Barbaresco. 

I'll quit whining for now and get going on the next batch. I found that I cannot have something fermenting at all times. What an interesting addiction.


----------



## joeswine

*Experimentation*

GLAD TO HEAR THAT IT WAS WHAT YOU EXPECTED ,OR AT LEAST CLOSE,DO YOU THINK IT WAS WORTH THE EFFORT? I WOULD HOPE SO,AND YES ITS ALWAYS NICE TO HAVE SOMETHINNG GOING ON,I LABELED BOTH MY PIESPORTER(THIS IS ONE YOU SHOULD TRY)AND TRO BLANCO(SMOOTH AND SEMI-DRY)GOOD FINISHING WINE,RACKED AND PUT A SECOND FINING AGENT IT THE BANANA VIOGNIER AND THE TROPICAL RED FROM AMAZON,.............NEVER A DULL MONENT IS THEIR WHEN THERE'S WINE IN THE LOOP.


----------



## RCGoodin

joeswine said:


> ,DO YOU THINK IT WAS WORTH THE EFFORT?


 
Hi Joe,

Yes, I do think it was worth it. I wish I had added more orange extract to the almond chardonnay. Since I took the almond to the max, I thought I better back off a little. Maybe it will come out during aging.

I look forward to using the other extracts in different ways. 

I'm splitting out 3 gallons of my Barbaresco this weekend to experiment with adding some simple syrup to make the other 3 gallons less dry. I'm getting some good advice from Julie and others on a different thread.

Join us, I think the title is "Adding sweetener to a dry wine". Would love your comments there.


----------



## joeswine

*making it your own*

making it your ownthat's what thinking outside the box is all about,as your progress on you rown you'll fined a whole new thought process on wine making....not to different from the early winemakers of europe and i mean early.....keep it moving and a hobbie will become a craft.


----------



## RCGoodin

joeswine said:


> making it your ownthat's what thinking outside the box is all about,as your progress on you rown you'll fined a whole new thought process on wine making....not to different from the early winemakers of europe and i mean early.....keep it moving and a hobbie will become a craft.


 
Joe,

I found a recipe to make Armaretto. It has always had an almond taste. There isn't any almonds in the recipe. I'm going to tweak it to be more like wine fermentation and then add some of my almond extraxt to it. I'll let you know how it turns out...


----------



## joeswine

*Armaretto*

Like the taste of that where did you the recipe from?.


----------



## RCGoodin

Joe,

Tha Amaretto recipe,

http://www.shutterbean.com/2011/homemade-amaretto/

I think I'll convert the 3 cups to a gallon, add EC-1118 and let her go. What do you think?


----------



## joeswine

*extracts*

its a basic formula for cello's actually using simple syrup,extracts and some form of alcohol,I have all the extracts in place to do the mix just need some vodka as the booster,I'll try this in a one gallon format and trade it with you ,if you would like?the reason i would use vodka instead of everkleer is (bite),this should be soft to the taste not hard.....other than that piece of cake.....


----------



## joeswine

*Question*

Have any new winemakers out there ever used herbs or flowers to make wine? 

Would like some feedback, what ones did you make? Would herbs did you make them with ? And finally, how did they turn out ? T


----------



## joeswine

*Blueberry bliss*

JS WORDY, HAVE RECEIVED YOUR PACKAGE,, IT S IN THE REFRIGERATOR CHILLING AS WE SPEAK, LABEL WAS VERY NICE, PACKAGE PROFESSIONALLY DONE................ ILL OPEN SOON,


----------



## joeswine

*Zesting fun with extracts*




I NOTICED 75% WOULD TRY OR HAVE TRIED ZESTING AND OR MAKING OR BUYING EXTRACTS,VERY COOL.
THAT'S THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX

THERE IS A WORLD OF DISCOVERY OUT THERE FOR THOSE WHO ARE ADVENTUROUS,IN THIS INDUSTRY ,EVEN AT OUR LEVEL,AND EXTRACTS AND THE USE OF HERBS AND ZEST AS NATURAL FLAVOR ENHANCING ELEMENTS ARE AT YOUR FINGER TIPS,YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW - WHAT THEY CAN GIVE YOU- ,HOW TO EXTRACT THE FLAVOR AND WHEN TO ADD THEM THE REST IS ,AS THEY SAY "ALL A MATTER OF TASTE".

TIME TO REVIEW THE ART OF ZESTING AND EXTRACTS ...................FOR THE 25% LEFT


----------



## joeswine

*What is zesting?*

IN ESSENCE'S, ITS THE OUTER PEEL OR OUTER COLORIZATION ,OF CITRUS FRUIT SUCH AS ,LEMONS,ORANGES AND GRAPEFRUITS TO NAME A FEW,ZESTING HAS BEEN USED IN WINE MAKING FOR HUNDREDS OF YEAR BACK TO THE ETRUSCAN ERROR.

IN BAKING AS WELL AS BEER MAKING THE ART HAS THRIVED ,ITS A QUESTION OF HOW TO MAKE AND WHEN TO USE...EXTRACTS ARE A DERIVATIVE OF ZESTING AND IS ALSO THE EXTRACTION OF ESSENTIAL OILS FROM ITEMS LIKE CINNAMON,RAISINS, AND OTHER FRAGRANT ITEMS.
FOR THE NEW WINE MAKER IT MIGHT SEEM A LITTLE TO MUCH WORK,WHY NOT JUST BUT A COMMERCIAL EXTRACT AND BE DONE WITH IT?THE ANSWER TO THAT IS ,IN SOME CASES ITS A CAN DO,BUT IN MOST NOT ENOUGH REAL FLAVOR INPUT,FOR MY NEEDS,HENCE, YOU MAKE A EXTRACT,NOT THAT HARD BUT IT TAKES PATIENTS.DO YOU HAVE PATIENTS?

ZESTING 

THE TOOL TO USE IS A MICRO PLANE ITS LIKE A HAND HELD CHEESE GRADER ONLY FINER,MOST OF US HAVE THIS TYPE OF TOOL IN THE KITCHEN ,IF NOT GO BUY ONE (IN- VALUABLE).

 REMOVE ONLY THE COLOR PORTION OF THE ORANGE (NOT THE WHITE)..WHAT IS REMOVES FROM THE ORANGE IS ZEST THIS CAN BE DONE WITH ANY CITRUS FRUIT,AND SOME OTHERS
.  NOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT?
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO ,MAKE A EXTRACT OR USE AS ZEST ,AS IT IS ,TO ENHANCE A WINE BASE,OR TO TAKE CORRECTIVE MEASURES?
LETS SAY YOU HAVE A WHITE WINE BASE AND YOU DECIDED TO MAKE IT SPECIAL,BY ADDING ZEST TO THE WINE AFTER PRIMARY AND ALLOWING IT TO SET FOR A MONTH THE ORANGE WILL GIVE UP IT'S FLAVOR TO THE WINE,IF IT ISN'T ENOUGH FLAVOR THEN BY ALL MEANS DEEPEN THE TASTE WITH MORE ZEST AND ALLOW IT TO SET LONGER ,IT WILL SETTLE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE VESSEL.

ZESTING AND EVER CLEER OR VODKA
IF YOU CHOSE TO MAKE A EXTRACT THEN YOU WOULD TAKE THE ZEST AS I DO (10 TO 12 ORANGES) VALENCES ARE BEST ) PLACE ZEST IN A BALL QUART GLASS JAR (SANITIZED)AND FILL WITH EVERCLEER,LET IT SET FOR A MONTH OR UNTIL YOU SEE THE ZEST TURN WHITISH,AT THE BOTTOM OF THE JAR,READY FOR USE,

TO ....BE CONTINUED......


----------



## joeswine

*The subject of orange*

Orange wine


While on the subject of extracts is a simple wine make to with an excellent taste .




 Orange wine or vino naranja is a product in HELLUVA and MALAGA in ANDALUSIA, Spain with white wine macerated with orange peel its known for its aromatic SWEET wines. There system of production and aging of this wine , is a white wine when macerated orange peels and aging . orange wine from HELVA is usually dark orange brown color . of brown color is a result of sun-dried grapes prior to fermentation . 

 MOSCATEL, OR ORANGE MOSCATEL is a sweet wine produced Malaga . bitter Seville orange peels, once dried , our macerated out all distilled from wine and this is as the sleep MOSCATEL wine . 

 So let's say you use 8 to 12 Seville oranges or navel oranges zest of them , and place them in alcohol or Everclear . ,or the other way, zest or orange peels, place them directly into the secondary,, allowed to go through its final phases fermentation watch the zest fault to the bottom and it will, after a month give it a little taste ,rack off sediment, adjuster taste , great tasting wine semi dry or sweet . ................................. To be continued,E


----------



## joeswine

*A trip to Georgia*

I would like to take you on a trip with me last month at our South Jersey winemakers meeting Mr. Michael pinto host at our meeting at his winery and produce outlet. Michael had just came back from Georgia, no I don't mean to Georgia in the United States, I mean Georgia in the former Soviet Union or should I say the Soviet Union occupied Georgia ,anyway this to political and not for this venue. 

The pinto family is very influential throughout Europe especially Italy and Chile and they also have vineyards on the West Coast they've been in the wine business for years and their well respected in the industry , are wine meeting was on the Sunday Michael I just flown in that Saturday night from Europe and hadn't gotten much sleep at all, fact is I screwed up the dates and it wasn't supposed to be to the following Sunday that are wine meeting was scheduled at that time he was supposed to go over the wines from California which he says are going exciting this year, they had a great growing season and the wines from Chile were to be discussed . As I was waiting in the parking lot for 12 o'clock to arrive I noticed there was a car already in the lot I rang the bell and Michael came out and looked at me as if to say " what are you doing here" and that's exactly what he said, see I have messed up the date so anyway 
he gave me the keys to his place stated he would be back and for me to take over we had all the people on their way, sometimes things work out for the best. T
Michael went on to say that his trip to Georgia was paid for by the government of Georgia in hopes that he could stimulate the sale of Georgian wine juice and grapes in this country to that end at our meeting history began , is very cool so I hope you stay tuned ..........U


----------



## non-grapenut

joeswine said:


> Have any new winemakers out there ever used herbs or flowers to make wine?
> 
> Would like some feedback, what ones did you make? Would herbs did you make them with ? And finally, how did they turn out ? T


 
I have made wine from the following flowers: Mimosa (smelled like catspray and was a bit bitter/sour...used it to blend a little with my peach wine and it gave it a true peach scent and sourness.
Also, Elderflowers...I have made wine and sparkling wine using white grape juice as base, Crimson clover mead (kind of grassey and berry tasting)....and Rosepetals using white grape and finally, chrysanthemum mead...not so bad and it's supposed to be medicinal (antiinflamatory...chinese recipe.)

I added Borage leaves to a pear wine I made this spring. It gave it a melon/cucumber taste. I recommend this in any light wine.

Lynn


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## joeswine

*herbal wines*

thanks for sharing that with me,there is a wide palate of things that one can make into wine ,with in reason,don't you think? and I hope you will continue to read this and the other threads I put on line..


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## joeswine

*the toolbox*

Okay were going into winemaking season these are three items you should know in your head and have posted on a wall somewhere on a bulletin board somewhere we can see it at all times so you don't get that mixed up .I'm putting this on all four threads. 
S

Potassium sorbate, is used to inhibit molds, and yeast in wine . also known affectionately as wine stabilizer . testings are raped produces sorbate acid when added to wine . it serves two purposes. when active fermentation has ceased and the wind is ripe for the final time after clearing , potassium sorbate will render any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into C02 and alcohol , butwhen they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. when a wine is sweet and before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent re-fermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabolic sulfate . is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard siders by may be added to table wines which exhibit difficulty in maintaining clarity and finding . 
N

Capitalization, is a process of adding sugar to unfermented grape must in order to increase the alcohol content after fermentation this technique was developed by a French chemist for whom it was named this process is not make the wines sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content . additionally, the sugar is capitalized wine cannot be tasted T
Potassium sorbate, is us is used to inhibit, and yeastin wine. this both prevents must wild microorganisms from growing , and it acts as a potent antioxidant , protecting both the color comment and delicate flavors of the wine.

Typical dosage is 1/4 teaspoon potassium metabolic sulfate or 6 gallon bucket of must prior to fermentation and it half teaspoonor 6 gallon bucket bottling. winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% solution of 2 tablespoons of potassium medics both sulfate solution . O 



Read thisUnderstand the differences between potassium sorbate potassium metabolic sulfite place in an area that you can always look at continue to memorize and even then revisited it's a must for home winemakers ........... *Printed out *M


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## joeswine

*The toolbox*

The toolbox
.


As you move along in this craft you should develop the tools you need to have on hand , just in case you run into a problem and it's a Saturday night and there is no wine store or beer making store around to help you . 
The Things you should have on, potassium metabolic sulfate , sorbate , pectin enzyme , super clear , yeast nutrient , a variety of fresh yeast , pow powdered, oak chips , wine tannin powder, liquid oak , corks, and a wide variety of utensils that you pick up over course of your tenure . 

These are some of the tools a winemaker is never without, . I'm sure there's a lot more but these are the basics this is what you should acquire in your toolbox for the wine making season . A


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## joeswine

*sanatation and cleaning*

STOP...go back and reread sanitation and cleaning, cridicle to the wine making effort,always remember THE WINE YOU SAVE MAY BE YOUR OWN


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## joeswine

*News from vineland*

VINELAND WINE COMP

1ST PLACE DRY WHITE CAT.( PIESPORTER)
3RD PLACE FRUIT WINE ZINFANDEL/POMEGRANATEGREAT COMPETITION,LOTS OF GOOD WINE MAKERS IN THE VINELAND AREA ,OLD WORLD AS WELL AS NEW WORLD,SANCTIONED BY THE JERSEY VINA CULTURAL SOCIETY,AND JUDGE BY THEM USING THE DAVIS METHOD...........ALWAYS FUN AND NERVE RACKING


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## joeswine

*Sparkling wine anyone?*

THIS WEEK END MY ASSOCIATE KITO AND I STARTED OUR TWO MILLINNUM SPARKLING WINE KITS.

THE KITS THEMSELVES AREA A BASIC WHITE WINE WITH INSTRUCTIONS ,THAT AFTER THE WINE REACHES .0996 OR SO,DO NOT ADD KMET AND SORBATE BUT TO ADD A PACKAGE OF DEXTROUS,,CORK,WIRE CAGE AND SEAL,SO FAR SO GOOD.

WHEN I LOOKED AROUND I SAID TO MYSELF,HOW DO APPY THE CORKS?I HAVE NO CHANPANGE CORKER?,ANY TRICKS,I REALLY DON'T WANT TO BUY ONE IF I CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE,?

ALSO STARTED A 3GALLON KIT FROM CRU/LOUNGE KITS INTITTLED..LONG ISLAND ICE TEA.

BUSY WEEKEND....BOTTLES TO DELABEL SOUP TO MAKE AND WINE TO SERVICE


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## pappyross

joeswine said:


> I know theres recipes out there for this type of wine ,but has anyone made a really flavorful almond wine and what was the trick if any ,Im looking to expand my wine cellar and tried this before commercially and it was very good in body and flavor..........


 I did a batch and left the nuts in until I racked for bottling, plus added about three table spoons of Almond extract right before clarifing


----------



## RCGoodin

*Almond Chardonnay*



RCGoodin said:


> UPDATE: I stabilized and cleared the gallon of Chardonnay that I added Almond extract too. The tasting of the wine was good and it had the aroma of Almond and the taste of Almond. I felt the taste was at the max, so next time I would try 2 tablespoons of the extract instead of three. I bought a 12 pack of 1 oz extract from Amazon so I added a tablespoon of the orange extract to see if it would make the Almond taste a little less. So, it's going through secondary fermentation and I'll give another update in a couple of weeks. QUOTE]
> 
> Joe, I opened a bottle of the Almond Chardonnay for some visiting Canadians and they loved it. The aroma took over right away and the taste was spot on. I did not taste the tablespoon of orange extract, so next time I'll add another tablespoon.


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## joeswine

*experimentation*

follow this premiss,basic white wine , almond extract to taste,the best almond wine I have ever tasted was from two sisters (I think) and I got to know them well,and found that there seceret was good,almond extract..........................


----------



## non-grapenut

joeswine said:


> THIS WEEK END MY ASSOCIATE KITO AND I STARTED OUR TWO MILLINNUM SPARKLING WINE KITS.
> 
> THE KITS THEMSELVES AREA A BASIC WHITE WINE WITH INSTRUCTIONS ,THAT AFTER THE WINE REACHES .0996 OR SO,DO NOT ADD KMET AND SORBATE BUT TO ADD A PACKAGE OF DEXTROUS,,CORK,WIRE CAGE AND SEAL,SO FAR SO GOOD.
> 
> WHEN I LOOKED AROUND I SAID TO MYSELF,HOW DO APPY THE CORKS?I HAVE NO CHANPANGE CORKER?,ANY TRICKS,I REALLY DON'T WANT TO BUY ONE IF I CAN DO SOMETHING ELSE,?
> 
> ALSO STARTED A 3GALLON KIT FROM CRU/LOUNGE KITS INTITTLED..LONG ISLAND ICE TEA.
> 
> BUSY WEEKEND....BOTTLES TO DELABEL SOUP TO MAKE AND WINE TO SERVICE



Cut about an inch long slit on one side of a toiletpaper roll. That is the part that will be on the neck of the champagne bottle. Slide your sterilized cork (I use plastic ones) into the roll to help steady it as you swack the hell out of the top of the roll with a rubber mallet until the cork is in place. Works for me.


----------



## joeswine

*champain corhing*

thanks for the reply


----------



## joeswine

*Champaign stage to*

SG is down to 0.996. However it did not clear well ,so I transferred everything into one 6 gallon bucket or glass carboy added some super clear ,. It should settle out within a week at that point I will rack again and at more super clear . The reason being Iwent to speed up the process cause the next step after that would be to filter at the dexterous ,cork, wire cage and sealed.  


 Stage II of the Long Island iced teashould be in the process tomorrow , I will rack it place in glass carboy, is fining agent to clear it rack again and then add the fpac.

This weekend, we picked up a load of juice from a vendorwho was selling juice from Walker's , Walker's is an excellent prayer of ucies and juice concentrates they come from up in the finger Lakes area so we started Niagara , Fredonia, Concorde and vignoles. This is an exceptionally white wine . All three wines were at 23 bricks with the SG of 1.10 by tomorrow Monday the wine, temperature should be , at 69 degree and ready for the bentonite and the yeast.


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## joeswine

*Moving along*

 THE PROCESS OF WINE MAKING HAS ITS FAST AND FURIOUS AND THEN ITS CALM TILL THE NEXT TIME,WELL LAST NIGHT I GOT IN FROM THE STREET AT 9PM,LATE,BUT NEED TO GO DOWN STAIRS FOR THE GLASS PHASE OF THE LONG ISLAND ICE TEA ,THAT THEN GAVE ME 3 FERMENTATION BUCKETS FOR THE FERDONA,NIAGARA AND VIGNOLES,(WHAT AROMAS) AND THE VIGNOLE WAS AT ITS PEAK,ALL THREE WERE STARTING TO FERMENT,BUT I DIDN'T APPLY THE BENOITE OR THE YEAST YET,TIME TO MOVE FAST AND FURIOUS,24 GALLONS OF WINE TO MOVE AND PREP.

THAT'S WHY I STRESS TO HAVE EVERY ITEM IN YOUR TOOL BOX ALL , YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOUR GOING TO NEED, ,BEING PREPARED IN THIS CRAFT IN A TRUE TIME SAVER,

HURRY UP AND WAIT.


----------



## joeswine

*Clearing at last*

Finally, everything that was in the fermentation buckets is now in the glass, the Long Island iced tea has cleared and is ready for it set back. They should turn a very interesting flavor .

The Concorde, and Niagara and fradona, are settling in am resting finishing the fermentation in clearing out . 

The next step is the champagne finishing , . I bought a new floor corker specifically for champagne , , a na new. 

In the wings I still have my coffee port , piña colada , and cosmopolitan these are my wife's favorite amongst the rest of the celler 

.......................... stay Suned..... Anybody want to swap ........ Wine 
. that is..................................


----------



## joeswine

*Do you remember?*

DO YOU REMEMBER THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN KMET AND SORBATE,AND HOW AND WHEN TO USE THEM?

DO YOU RECALL THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CLEANING,SANITIZING AND STERILIZATION?


WHAT A BOUT OXIDATION AND HOW IT OCCURS IN THE WINE MAKING PROCESS?

CORK TAINT AND WHAT ITS EFFECTS ARE AND CHARACTERISTICS IT ADDS TO THE WINE?
TIME TO REMEMBER....


----------



## joeswine

*Got the erge*

Conversation"hi bob what are you doing" hi joe on my way to gino pinto's to pick up some californians ,(stop)did i forget!,"were are you now ?i'm in berlin ,were in berlin?mab paint store then heading down,i'll meet you,and so i picked up a pino noir,very fruity and rich in grape flavor,this i will turn into champagne.if you like to make wine you never out grow your need to ferment something no matter how much is going on................


----------



## joeswine

*pino noir*

Well, the Pinot Noirs now in glass, still has residual gas and that is okay I I added for big tablespoons of powdered oak to it, this, I feel will give a better mouth feel would add a little structure ,, the ed still has a long way to go ,. I Will build on it . Starting now I like you Pinot nor very much to me . It is one of the fruitiness red wines you can make it, goes well with everything and you do not have to think about it to enjoy.


----------



## joeswine

*rememberring*

do you remember the difference between cleaning ,sanitizing and sterilization??????????in wine making terms??????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## joeswine

*Failures*

 On the first one to admit that I had failures, is a typical example the first time I made a sparkling wine was in 2007 the great was the moscato,, which is really the grape that is widely used in the production of ASTI, ONE OF THE GREAT SPARKLING WINES OF EUROPE SPECIFICALLY ITALY , NOW IN 2007 I WAS STILL IN THE LEARNING CURVE AND BELIEVE ME, I WAS LEARNING EVERY EXPERIENCE AS YOU SHOULD , HOWEVER WAS IN JANUARY WAS AT ONE OF OUR ONE SOUTH JERSEY WINEMAKERS MEETINGS AND PART OF THE PROJECT WAS TO MAKE THIS A SPARKLING WINE OR SHOULD I SAY HOW TO ,I HAD ALL THE TOOLS LINED UP WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GOOD KNOWLEDGE ,. SO WE WENT AHEAD ANYWAY IN THE SPARKLING WINE DID NOT TURN OUT TOO BAD DID NOT HAVE A LOT OF CARBONATION, EVEN THOUGH WE USE CO2 IN THE BEER RUN . SOMETHING WAS NOT JUST RIGHT, NOW WE MOVE FORWARD TO TODAY ONLY HAVE ABOUT SIX BOTTLES LEFT OF THE STUFF STILL A GREAT TASTING WINE BUT AABSOLUTELY, NO SPARKLE ! SO DO YOU LEARN FROM THIS. BASICALLY I DID A RIGHT IT JUST DID NOT COME OUT RIGHT . SO THIS NEXT –I AM GOING TO THIS WEEKEND ,I NOW HAVE ALL THE TOOLS IN PLACE AND THE KNOWLEDGE ,YOU NEVER OUTGROW YOUR NEED FOR KNOWLEDGE AND THE WINEMAKING BUSINESS.


----------



## joeswine

*Remember*

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN K MET AND SOBATE, SANITATION AND CLEANING,WHAT CONTRIBUTES TO CORK TAINT,HOW OXIDATION EFFECTS THE WINE AND INVADES IT,THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CAPITALIZATION AND BACK SWEETING.


DOWN LOAD- THEM POST THEM- REMEMBER THEM....................THEIR APART OF YOUR WINE MAKING PROCESS..............................................


----------



## joeswine

*Pump problems?*

HAVEN,T DONE MUCH IN THE BASEMENT DO TO THE FACT I LOST MY SINK PUMP,STORM(SANDY ) DEPLETED THE STORES OF PUMPS,BUT NOW WITH A NEW ONE THIS WEEK END I CAN RE- START MY PASSION AND THERE IS A LOT TO DO,TO BOTTLE TO RACK TO TASTE AND THEN THERE'S THE HOLIDAYS JUST OFF IN THE DISTANCE,,

JUST NOT ENOUGH TIME


----------



## joeswine

*tony t amarone*

Last night when I got home I decided to have some wine to unwine with in my special rack was tony t small bottle of 2011 amarone,it was time.

by the time my wife came in from riding dinner was on the table and the wine was in the glasses,excellent tonyt ,nice up front and a great finish, I believe this was the one you used raisins in(chicken label),glad I let it set longer as you suggested.....here's to you tonythe right side of Texas.....


----------



## joeswine

*Italian frascati*

FRASCATI IS A FRUITY ,STRAW TO GOLDEN IN COLOR WHITE WINE THAT WAS DEVELOPED BY THE ROMANS FROM THE HILLS OF ROME. FRASCATI CAN BE\MADE SWEET OR DRY TO YOU LIKING AND IS A BLEND OF GRAPES INCLUDING MALAVASIA AND TREBBIANO .BEST SERVER CHILLED AND ONE TABLE WINE I MADE OFTEN AND NEVER FAILS TO PLEASE GREAT WITH SEAFOOD ,POLO AND SOUPS.

 NEXT TIME THE Italian WINES COME THROUGH G.........FRASCATI A GREAT EVERYDAT EASY DRINKING WINE A BUCKET OF FRASCATI,YOU WON'T BE DIS APPOINTED


----------



## joeswine

*Sangiovese-chanti-style*

 EVERYONE HAS ATTEMPTED THIS ONE,HOWS YOU PROFILE MATCH UP TO THIS ONE?


 SANGIOVESE CHANTI STYLE wines are characterized in their youth by their predominantly floral and cinnamon spicy bouquet.AS these wines age they can have aromas of tobacco an leather.Chianti tend to have medieum- hight acidityand medium tannins.the acidity in the wines make them vary flexible with food pairings and are particularly good with Italian food that features red sauces as well as beef,lamb and wild game.

So the next time you make Chianti,or sangiovese,see if your profiles are there,for without knowing what your wine is supposed to taste like as a finished product how do you know what it really is?

 ALSO FOLLOW ME ON A TRIP THROUGH ITALIAN AS WE DISCUSS ITALIAN WINES AND THERE REGIONS.


----------



## joeswine

*Red wines in profile*

GREAT ITALIAN REDS



 MONTEPULCIANO,is a type of wine grape as well as a type of red wine made from these sames grapes.It is typically a fruity, dry wine with soft tannins,and as such is often consumed young. MONTEPULCIANO makes a beautifully deep ruby red wine that is clear and brilliant WITH PURPLISH SHADES.OVER TIME THE WINE TURNS TO GARNET RED DURING ITS MATURATION.

THIS IS DEFINITELY A MOST FOR YOUR WINE CELLAR GOOD WITH PASTA AND SEAFOOD ,GET A BUCKET NEXT TIME OUT USE A LOW FOAMING YEAST ,YOU CAN AGE THIS BUT EASILY DRINKABLE AFTER THE FIRST FULL YEAR IN BOTTLE BETTER AFTER THE SECOND.


----------



## joeswine

*Amarone..a taste treat*

 GIVE YOUR SENSES A TASTE TREAT

TEDESCHI,
AMARONE DELIA VALPOLICELLA 2007 

TOMASO BUSSOLA AMARONE CLASSICO 2006
LA COLOMBAIA AMARONE 2008
ALLEGRINI, AMARONE 2008 


 JUST A SAMPLE OF WHATS OUT THERE,TRY ONE THEN MAKE A KIT OR JUICE ONE AND COMPARE ,THE PROFILE IS DISTINCTIVE AND WITH OUT COMPROMISE,AMARONE THE KING OF REDS FOR ME.


----------



## joeswine

*Verdicchio*

NO THAT'S NOT HOW YOU SAY GOOD BY IN ITALIAN.

VERDICCHIO,IS GROWN N THE AREA OF CASTELLI DI JESI AND MATELICA IN THE MARCHE REGION AND GIVES ITS NAME TO THE VARIETAL WHITE WINE MADE FROM IT. THE NAM COMES FROM "VERDE" (GREEN)THE WHITE WINES ARE NOTED FOR THEIR HIGH ACIDITY AND A CHARACTERISTIC NUTTY FLAVOR WITH S HINT OF HONEY.

THIS WINE CAN AGE VERY WELL ALSO I've HAD SOME 5 /6 YEARS YOUNG AND STILL RETAIN THEIR STRUCTURE,LAVIN ICV D-47 IS A GOOD YEAST FOR THIS WINE IT IS A LOW FOAMING QUICK FERMENTER .

TRY IT YOU'LL LIKE IT.


----------



## joeswine

*Vermentino*

 THIS IS WIDELY PLANTED IN THE NORTHERN SARDINIA AND ALSO FOUND IN TUSCAN AND LIGURIAN COASTAL DISTRICTS. WINES ARE PARTICULARLY POPULAR TO ACCOMPANY FISH AND SEAFOOD.
THIS IS ANOTHER GREAT WHITE TO TRY, MADE MANY BATCHES OF THIS WINE HAS A CLEAN CRISP TASTE WITH A BITE TO THE FINISH.

VERMENTINO..A DIFFERENT FRUIT FOR THOUGHT. SEE IF YOU CAN PURCHASE A BUCKET WHEN THE ITALIANS COME ION NEXT SEASON.YOU'LL LOVE IT..............................


----------



## joeswine

*Pinot grigio*

 HERE A BIG FAVORITE ,A HUGELY SUCCESSFUL GRAPE ALSO KNOWN AS PINOT GRIS IN FRANCE,ITS WINES ARE CHARACTERIZED BY CRISPNESS AND CLEANNESS.IT IS USUALLY DELICATE AND MILD,BUT CAN BE MORE COMPLEX AND FULL BODY DEPENDING ON THE MAKER,IF THIS WINE IS HARVESTED TO EARLY IN THE YEAR IT LOOSES A ITS TRUE CHARACTERISTICS.

CHARACTERISTICS OF WINE THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND AS A WINE MAKER EVEN AT OUR LEVEL.


----------



## joeswine

[] HERE A BIG FAVORITE ,A HUGELY SUCCESSFUL GRAPE ALSO KNOWN AS PINOT GRIS IN FRANCE,ITS WINES ARE CHARACTERIZED BY CRISPNESS AND CLEANNESS.IT IS USUALLY DELICATE AND MILD,BUT CAN BE MORE COMPLEX AND FULL BODY DEPENDING ON THE MAKER,IF THIS WINE IS HARVESTED TO EARLY IN THE YEAR IT LOOSES A ITS TRUE CHARACTERISTICS.

CHARACTERISTICS OF WINE THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND AS A WINE MAKER EVEN AT OUR LEVEL.
WHAT TYPE YEAST WOULD YOU BUILD WITH THIS WINE?.....THINK ABOUT IT.


----------



## joeswine

*Happy holidays*

Merry Christmas to all, and a safe and healthy new year.


----------



## joeswine

*Sangioveses – Chianti style*

 Now, what winemaker has not tried making or working with sangioveses ,this one is characterized in their youth by the prominently floral and cinnamon K. As these wines age, they can have a room of tobacco and leather. Chianti tends to be high to medium acidity and meeting towns . The acidity in the wine makes him very flexible with food pairings and are particularly good with the tank the scene that features red sauce as well as beef, lamp, and game .

 Okay, who has not tried making Chianti , or sangioveses these wines are critical and development of other wines of the 10 developing these characteristics is no very hard thing to do . Take a look in your yeast chart thing about the characteristics above , which will would you choose? which type of okay would you use ? how long would you let sit in the oak ?  K


----------



## joeswine

*Muscat*


Muscat, this is a wine that can be done dry ,semi dry and as a dessert wine or a sparkling known as asti.

Known mainly in Piedmont, is mainly used in the slightly sparkling frizzy semisweet Muscat di asti . Not to be confused with two German versions of moscato this is unto itself . I know from reading the threads on this forum that quite a few of you out there like. This particular style of wine . . So do, its also great for cooking with as the most , the timelines you will find them in the sauce somewhere or the gravy or whatever you choose to call it ,.. Italians in the restaurant world loves cooking with wine . E


----------



## joeswine

*Wine Trio*

Today I am going to start three different wines, the first is a coffee port, the second is piña colada and the third is a Cosmo .

 All of these wines will be made with the same yeast for the coffee port is EC 1118, for the piña colada EC 1118 , for the Cosmo, it is EC 1118 also , I you want to go back and take a look at when good wines have gone bad . What I just wrote about yeast and why the EC 1118 is the most widely used especially forget manufacturers it gives us a low operating temperature helps with stuck fermentation helps with heavy sediment in the wine makes compact lees, once again the safety zone . That is why I say to you . Sometimes the yeast that comes with the kits is always the best yeast that particular wine style that you are making , however in all three of these kits . They have one common factor , . They all have an F and they all have a wine base . So the trick here is to follow the process watcher temperatures and have a hydrometer and kn know how to read. Always ask try not to guess .

 When doing right now side just washed my three fermentation tubs with one step, let them soak for 15 min.members of amount and start on the wine base.

 So here I sit waiting for my three fermenters to get over the 10 minute watch with six counts of one some step, I looked over at the labeling tub and said self if I get those out of that bucket. Get ready for the final rinse watch add the 24 more that I have get them ready then I will be able to put the one step back into it and recycle once the and water, why waste 18 gallons of hot sanitize water . 

So now I can continue to start the base wine .

 Coffee port/ SG 1.20 if you take that reading and translate that and alcohol I am around 17% .. to the top and my hanging tag , which indicates the style of wine the specific gravity and the date also the kit manufacturer serial number . coffee port is on its way .

.  Cosmo wine, SG 1.10 I boost the alcohol one this just attack I know the fpac will handle be added alcohol without any problems have made this kid about half a dozen times now , added the hanging tag date and manufacturer serial number SG.......... Ready t go ....... 

 piña colada of this wine. I have made an a half-dozen times, my better half loves it soda or girlfriends once again were using the same yeast EC 1118 ............ SG at 1. 10 

 It will be interesting to see. The differences and the wine making techniques of us who are making this kit at the same time I intend at the coffee beans mine . I also boost the specific gravity of . All three kids I know that the F pack can handle it I finish . then maybe trade or swap and compare be very cool ....


----------



## joeswine

*Day 2*

 DAY 2 FERMENTATION UNDERWAY

TEMP. 62 DEGREES.........
..........OUTDOOR WEATHER IS SUPPOSE TO WRAM UP BY MED-WEEK. SO FAR-SO GOOD


----------



## joeswine

*black malvasia///italian wine tour*

black malvasia is a grape variety from Asti in Piedmont,Italy. malvasia produces an intense red wine which is light to med. bodied wine with moderate acidity and moderate tannins. black MALVASIA is often used as a 10% blending grape with sangiovese when making chanti as the softness of the grape accelerates the finish of the product.malvasia can be paired with many things, especially a thin - crusted brick oven pizza or angel hair pasta with marinara sauce.


Remember the partner ship of wine (which are dominate) and which are fillers ,this is one of those wines which are usually used as a filler for a predominate wine type .the partnership of wine remember that thread.?


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

Just the coffee port, lots of sediment in the bucket the users good stuff in the fermentation lots of body, to this so you added the usual cast of characters the CHEMS. You know who their afterward which I added my finding agents ,edited my hang tags wrapped in a blanket and the sanitize carboy and laid him to rest for a while, the piña colada and Cosmo are doing fine.;l


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

Just rackedcoffee port, lots of sediment in the bucket they used good stuff , the fermentation has lots of body, to this i should added the usual cast of characters the CHEMS. You know who their are then I added my finding agents ,edited my hanging tags, wrapped the carboy and laid him to rest for a while, the piña colada and Cosmo are doing fine.;l


----------



## joeswine

*Trebbiano*

This was widely plain white varietal in Italy. It is growing throughout the country, with a special focus on the one from Abbruzzo and from lazio, including frescati. Mostly, there are pale, easy drinking wines ,but trebbiano from producers such as valentini have been known as a for 15 years.. It is knownuni blanc in France. 



 This is another one of those wanting to keep the repertoire easy to make need to drink no-nonsense great basic ,Italian table wine check into it. w Wt to buy a bucket 
.


----------



## joeswine

*Delcetto*

DOLCETTO,IS A GRAPE VARIETY GROWN IN THE PIEDMONT REGION OFNORTHWEST ITALY.DOLCETTO IS NEARLY ALWAYS A DRY WINE AND CAN BE TANNICAND FRUIT DRIVEN WITH MODERATE LEVELS OF ACIDITY.DOLCETTO WINES ARE KNOWN FOR LICORICE AND BLACK CHERRY FLAVORS WITH A CHARACTERISTICALLY BITTER FINISH REMINISCENT OF ALMONDS.CONSIDERED A LIGHT EASY DRINKING RED WINE THAT PAIRS WELL WITH PASTA AND PIZZA DISHES,SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.

WHAT TYPE OF YEAST WOULD GO GOOD WITH THIS WINE?::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


----------



## joeswine

*Wines of the world*

THERE ARE FABULOUS WINES CREATE ALL OVER THE WORLD AND THEN RECREATED IN THE FORM OF KITS AND FRESH JUICE AS WELL GRAPES, THANKS TO MODERN SHIPPING METHODS FRESH GRAPES FROM CHILLY ,ITALY AND CALIFORNIA ARE SHIPPED FRESH AND IN SEASON,WERE GOING TO EXPLORE THEM AND THEN PAIR THEM WITH WHAT YOU CAN DO IN YOUR OWN WINERY TO MAKE THE HAPPEN ..............STAY TUNED..


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## joeswine

*German wine in review*

 Some of the best white wines in the world come from Germany. They have a long-standing tradition. Amazing making decent wines and the on the other side of that coin. They made some really bad ones , cheap but marketable but were going to explore some of the great German wines, if he ever can take the time to go into your local wine and spirits shop. Take a look *at* the German wines , try one whether it's a Riesling or a piesporter or any number of clean, fresh German wines.


 We are going to little history of German wine. Just so you could see how long It's been manufactured, do you remember the Georgian wines that were buried in tasks in the dirt. They were like something 400 A.D. while the German wine making is been around for a long time. In some cases they got a bad rap, so were going to explore just a little................................ stay tuned for the start of one of my favorites. ........................ Piesporter............ a unique wine unto itself.


 Piesporter is wine made in and around the village of piesport on the north bank of mosel wine region of Germany. A white, light body wine that ranges from dry to off dry, it can be made from Riesling,muller-thurgua or elbling grapes. In some cases piesporter maybe capitalize which are added to the juice before fermentation to increase the alcohol level, remember that adding sugar in the primary raises the alcohol level. Remember that, will continue right said that it can be a double-edged sword. This is their version of a cheap wine. Let me tell you something you get a kit of this wine do so. It has excellent finish and something very different than you're used to If you never had this before. This is one of the one I'm going to send Missouri, will see how it does.

I wanted to start with this wine because I'm used to it. I know it's finish, not a lot of fuss to it. It just tastes good, clean, crisp and has herbals in the finish. it can be a show stopper.

Will continue.......


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## joeswine

*German wines and review*

 Welcome back, they waiting for you let's first do a little history lesson after all you don't know where the winds heritages comes from knowing you've missed a large part of the winemaking effort.

 German wine is primarily produced in the West of Germany, along the river Rhine and its tributaries, with the oldest plantations going back to the Roman era. Proximally 60% of the German wine production is situated in the federal state of Rhineland-palatinate, where six of the 13 regions for quality one is situated. Germany has about 102,000 hectares were about 252,000 acres of vineyard, which is room 1/10 of the vineyard surface in Spain, France or Italy. The total volume production is usually around 9 million hectoliters annually, corresponding to 21.2 billion bottles, which places Germany as the eighth largest wine producing country in the world white wine accounts for most two thirds of the total production.

 As a wine country, and Germany has a mixed reputation internationally, with some consumers or want to export markets associating Germany with the world's most elegant and aromatic or white wines while others see the country namely as a source of cheap, mass market semisweet wines such as liebfraumilch. Among enthusiasts, Germany's reputation is primarily based on wines made from the Riesling grape variety, which at its best is used for aromatics, fruity and elegant white wines that range from very crisp and dry two well balanced swing an enormous aromatic concentrations. These are my style wines I love a nice clean Riesling or piesporter great any time this is the one you should always have one and in your inventory, but getting carried away.

 While primarily a white wine country, rep production surged in the 1900s and early 2000's primarily fueled by domestic demand, and the proportions of German vineyards devoted to this cultivation of dark – skin drapes righties has now stabilized at slightly more than a third of the total surface, another words they got into a little bit of red wine, for the red wines Pinot Noir is in the lead. Now who doesn't like a Pinot Noir

German wines are full of delightful surprises stay tuned and we'll explore more of them....


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## joeswine

*German wine styles*

Germany produces wines in many styles, dry, semisweet and sweet white wines, rosé wines, red wines and sparkling wines. The only one style not commonly produce is fortified wine. Due to the northerly location of German vineyards, the country has produced wines quite unlike any other in Europe, many of outstanding quality. Despite this it is still better known abroad for cheap, sweet or semisweet, low-quality mass production wines such as liebframilch.

Red wines has always been hard to produce in Germany because of climate and in the past which usually light-colored, closer to rosé with a red wines of the alsace.

So let's take a look at some of these white wines. At least the better known to us.

Riesling, is a white grape variety, which originated in the Rhine region of Germany. Riesling is an aromatic grape variety display in flowery, almost perfumed, aromas, as well as high acidity. It is used to make dry, semidry, suite and sparkling white wines. Riesling wines are usually virtually pure and are seldom oaked. As of 2004, Riesling, was estimated to be the world's 20th most wrong variety at 48,700 hectares, or around 120,000 acres that my friends is a lot of grapes. But in terms of importance for quality wines, is usually included in the top three white wine varieties together with Chardonnay and sauvignon blanc. Riesling is a variety which is highly terrain expressive, meaning that the character of the Riesling wines is clearly influenced by the wines place of origin.

Who out there hasn't made Riesling? If you haven't what he waiting for, when making a Riesling in the secondary little lemon zest. This will aid in the acidity in the back of the mouth. It will also bring up a kit Riesling and if you're doing. Fresh juice. It wakes it up, really.

A Riesling is a must in any wine collectors edition and I can tell you from experience. I never and without Riesling in my collection. It does Google mostly everything and you don't have to think about it just to drink it, that's my style of wine.

muller - thurgua, is a variety of white grape, which was created by Hermann Müller from the Swiss canton of thurgua in 1882. In crossing a Riesling with madeleine royale. It is used to make white wine in Germany, Australia, northern Italy, and hungry England, and Australia, Chas Republic, Slovenia, New Zealand, United States and Japan. Which makes this style, the most widely planet of all so-called new breeds of grape varieties created since the late 19th century. Although plantings have decreased significantly since the 1980s, as of 2006, it was still Germany second most than a variety. It is also especially known for its dry wine.

I've never seen this in fresh juice. But I do believe I heard of it in a kit form.

Will continue with German wines, next time you're in your state store or local wine and spirits shop take a trip down the German wine section. Treat yourself to some of the best ice wines in the world, as well as a great Riesling, liebfraumilch or a piesporter was will discuss these coming up................


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## joeswine

*German wines*

Tour of the Rhine



So let's summarize where we are gewuzttaminer, Riesling, piesporter,muller-thurgau,pino noir, red Riesling and many others too hard to pronounce but the ones I have listed you are the primary ones and ones that you could definitely put your hand.
Next time you're in spirits shop look down the German wine asle look for some of the wines I've talked about take a chance on one sure you'll find, that you made a good choice in the very refreshing to drink, Riesling, piesporter, gewuzttminer are all excellent as an added component to your wine categories at home.

The German wines is over, hope you glean some information from it............... stay tuned......... were moving on


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## Terry0220

Joe, I sooo enjoy reading your threads, and a lot of imformation and help you provide. I was happy to read when you got to the rieslings, I have a riesling in a carboy that I got this past fall (it was a juice bucket) would you suggest adding some zest to this? If so what? lemon, grapefruit, orange or (lol) all three? Any input would be greatly appreciated!


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## joeswine

*to add or not???????????*

] TO CHANGE OR NOT TO?



Wait don't do any thing unless you want to experiment,reisling is a good wine to make changes to,it's easy to work with and always has a decient finish,what did you have in mind?


THANKS FOR FOLLOWING THE THREAD


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## joeswine

*German wines*

These are just a few of the German wines that are out there, the ones that you're familiar with next time you're shopping do yourself a favor, try one. I think you'll like it. I think maybe we'll move on *to Spain.* This is a country deep in history as well as wine and port making.

But tell you a little story about *port* my friend Sam and I went on a port binge when I was younger but one owner forget. I don't remember now if it was him or I stated let's by a port. But I do remember the conversation goes something like this.

 What type sure we by? What we know about ports? How much do we need to spend? The answer was,we had no clue. So the both of us went to the liquor store found where the port was and just stared at the bottles for a while prices prices. Prices where do we start? So Sam being a kind man he is and very generous seven by the first bottle and we started at $25. I don't remember what brand it was a by the time we were finished him and I we were up to $140 a bottle. At that point I said I stated would have reproved yet alone we were getting poor will be found that was this it all comes down the taste and ports have a very special taste unique unto themselves the one name I remember the most was a brand called *Sandman *and I believe that was at the $45 price tag
so we really weren't at the bottom and we really weren't at the top of the scale. This was comfortable. I remember the port being warm very aromatic the taste and just enjoy to sip on. As you're going along were also taking notes as a winemaker should do we come the fine that with the exception of one of the twanty ports but fortified all bottle was the best in our opinion. But if you're not a big port enthusiasts were never taken the trouble to taste the port you're missing a whole new palette going to your spirits shop asked the person in charge, what is the best port in a specific price range, and when you're at home and you're in your special place we could sit and relax for a few minutes. Pour yourself small glass of port and sit back and enjoy .

* Port spirit to believe in.... Stay tuned*


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## joeswine

*Spanish wines*






Spanish wines emphasize their flavor for the sake of tasting.







Traditional vineyards are common sights at countryside.


*Spanish wines* (Spanish: _vino español _) are wines produced in the southwestern European country of Spain. Located on the Iberian Peninsula, Spain has over 2.9 million acres (over 1.17 million hectares) planted—making it the most widely planted wine producing nation[1] but it is the third largest producer of wine in the world, the largest being France followed by Italy.[2] This is due, in part, to the very low yields and wide spacing of the old vines planted on the dry, infertile soil found in many Spanish wine regions. The country is ninth in worldwide consumptions with Spaniards drinking, on average, 10.06 gallons (38 liters) a year. The country has an abundance of native grape varieties, with over 400 varieties planted throughout Spain though 80 percent of the country's wine production is from only 20 grapes—including Tempranillo, Albariño, Garnacha, Palomino, Airen, Macabeo, Parellada, Xarel·lo, Cariñena and Monastrell.
Major Spanish wine regions include the Rioja and Ribera del Duero which is known for their Tempranillo production; Valdepeñas, drunk by Unamuno and Hemingway, known for high quality tempranillo at low prices; Jerez, the home of the fortified wine Sherry; Rías Baixas in the northwest region of Galicia that is known for its white wines made from Albariño and Catalonia which includes the Cava and still wine producing regions of the Penedès as well the Priorat region.[1]


So Where Did It All Start from Spain, Is an Ancient Wine Producing Country and Provide Nearly As Much Wine As the Number One and Number Two Wine Producers in the World, Italy and France. Spanish Wine Is At Least 3000 Years Old Vineyards in Today's Sherry Region Were Planted by the Phoenicians around 1100 BC. Wines from Vines Growing along the Sunny Mediterranean Coast and the Cooler Atlantic Coast Were Traded and Consumed by the Romans. But the Arrival of the Islamic Moors in 711 A.D. Put an End to the Spanish Wine Commerce until the Moors Defeat in 1492. With the Iberian Peninsula Free from Islamic Rule, Wine Returned with a Vengeance.

Blame it on rioja, or Bordeaux. With the limited exception of Sherry, only rioja enjoyed much international awareness before and during the 19th century. Wealthy producers such as the Marquis DE, rascal had the wherewithal to produce wines that garnered attention, if limited, to Spain. International wine commerce was focused upon Bordeaux, Burgundy and a handful of sweet and fortified wines from other countries. In the 1860s the tiny American a fit arrived in France and began feeding on the vine there. Within a few decades it had attacked and destroyed most of Europe's greatest and least greatest vineyards.

The French were desperate, but some were not friendly enough to adapt American vines, the most obvious strategy. A significant number traverse the. PYRENEES to rioja. Perhaps drawn by its reputation, or perhaps only by his proximity. What they found there describes winemaking typical of a premodern age. Grapes are picked unripe, and red.white grapes are often in the fermenting it together. Barrels were innovations only recently introduced to rioja by rascal MURRIETA.. It is unripe grapes made for tart, green wines, and according to the principles that prevailed at the time, the best way to soften these kinds of wines were to place them in barrels for a long time, sometimes, for a really long time.

That is a lot to absorb, but the history is absolutely outstanding, as in most cases with wine and history is all so long and absorbed in politics that aside some of the greatest wines in the world are actually Spanish wines. So take a break do yourself a favor this week if you get an opportunity stopping your local state store or spirits shop in stroll down the aisle and find out what they have in Spanish wines and treat yourself and your taste out to something very different, very bold and or very sweet and were still not talking about ports, yet!

Stay tuned..............


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## phineascoates

I don't have any idea regarding this almond wine. can you give me some details about this wine? what are the process of this wine? Sorry for my ignorance, this really make me interest but I want to have some clarification regarding this wine.


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## joeswine

*Almond wine*

In the beginning of this thread I asked the question, is there any recipes out there for a almond wine? There came back several replies. So I started experimenting with toasted almonds and applying them to a base, or a simple white wine. This did work out so well so then I applied white wine base to a real good almond extract and that worked out really well. That is nuts and bolts of it*. It is called thinking outside the box*. Sometimes you have to think outside the box in order to make things work by using, extract in the basic wine white wine kit. I achieved the almond wine of my flavor. Since that time I went on to talk about how to make an extract, and how to apply it, with very good results.

Any other questions?


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## joeswine

*tempanello*

*Tempranillo*


TempranilloGrape (_Vitis_)

Tempranillo in Viala & VermorelColor of berry skinNoirSpecies_Vitis vinifera_Also calledCencibel, Tinta Roriz (more)OriginSpainNotable regionsRioja, Spain
Ribera del Duero, Spain (more)Notable winesVega SiciliaHazardsRot




Ripening Tempranillo grapes







Tempranillo leaf.


*Tempranillo* is a variety of black grape widely grown to make full-bodied red wines in its native Spain.[1] Its name is the diminutive of the Spanish _temprano_ ("early"),[1] a reference to the fact that it ripens several weeks earlier than most Spanish red grapes. Tempranillo has been grown on the Iberian Peninsula since the time of Phoenician settlements. It is the main grape used in Rioja, and is often referred to as Spain's noble grape. Grown early in the 20th century to produce jug wines in California, toward the end of the 20th century Tempranillo enjoyed a renaissance there and throughout the world as a fine wine. The grape has been planted in Mexico, New Zealand, South America, USA, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Uruguay, Turkey and Canada.
Often blended with Grenache and Cariñena (known in Rioja as Mazuelo), Tempranillo is bottled either young or after several years of barrel aging. In Portugal, it is blended with others to produce port wine. Often growing its best at higher altitudes, the grape yields wines that are ruby in colour, with aromas and flavours of berries, plum, tobacco, vanilla, leather and herb.




For some time, Tempranillo was thought to be related to the Pinot Noir grape. According to legend, Cistercian monks left Pinot Noir cuttings at monasteries along their pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela. However, ampelographic studies have shown no genetic connection between the cultivars.[2][3]
Spanish cultivation of _Vitis vinifera_, the common ancestor of almost all vines in existence today, began in earnest with Phoenician settlement in the southern provinces. Later, according to the Roman writer Columella, wines were grown all over Spain; yet there are only scattered references to the name "Tempranillo". Ribera del Duero wine making extends back over 2,000 years, as evidenced by the 66-metre mosaic of Bacchus, the Roman god of wine, that was unearthed in 1972, at Baños de Valdearados.[4]
The grape was introduced to America, possibly as seeds, by the Spanish Conquistadors in the 17th century, where it has largely retained its genetic identity and still strongly resembles its Spanish ancestors.[5] Despite its apparent fragility, Tempranillo travelled widely during the 20th century and, following much trial and error, has become established throughout the world. In 1905, Frederic Bioletti brought Tempranillo to California where it received a cool reception not only due to the encroaching era of Prohibition, but also because of the grape's dislike of hot, dry climates. It was much later, during the 1980s, that Californian Tempranillo wine production began to flourish, following the establishment of suitably mountainous sites. Production in this area has more than doubled since 1993.[6]
During the 1990s, Tempranillo started experiencing a renaissance in wine production worldwide. This surge began partly as a result of the efforts of a 'new wave' of Spanish growers who showed that it was possible to produce wines of great character and quality in areas outside of the Rojas region. One result of this has been that Tempranillo varietal wines have become more common, especially in the better-suited, cooler Spanish regions like Ribera del Duero, Navarra, and Penedès. During the 1990s, growers in Australia and South Africa started significant Tempranillo plantations.[_citation needed_]
*[edit] Viticulture*

Tempranillo is a black grape with a thick skin.[1] It grows best at relatively high altitudes, but it also can tolerate a much warmer climate.[7] With regard to Tempranillo's production in various climates, wine expert Oz Clarke notes,To get elegance and acidity out of Tempranillo, you need a cool climate. But to get high sugar levels and the thick skins that give deep color you need heat. In Spain these two opposites are best reconciled in the continental climate but high altitude of the Ribera del Duero.[8]​




Tempranillo vines in Garraf province, Penedès region


In the Ribera del Duero the average July temperature is around 21.4° Celsius (70.5° Fahrenheit),[9] though temperatures in the middle of the day in the lower valley can jump as high as 40 °C (104 °F). At night the region experiences a dramatic diurnal temperature variation, with temperatures dropping by as much as 16 °C (30 °F) from the daytime high. The Tempranillo grape is one of the few grapes that can adapt and thrive in continental Mediterranean climates like this.[10]
Pests and diseases are a serious problem for this grape variety, since it has little resistance to either. The grape forms compact, cylindrical bunches of spherical, deep blue-black fruit with a colourless pulp. The leaves are large with five overlapping lobes.[11]
The Tempranillo root absorbs potassium easily, which facilitates pH levels of 3.6 in the pulp and 4.3 in the skin when it reaches maturity. If it absorbs too much potassium, the must becomes salified (increased levels of salt), which slows the disappearance of malic acid, resulting in a higher pH. The skin does not present any herbaceous characters. The grape is very susceptible to inclement weather, contracting when there is a drought and swelling when there is too much humidity. The swelling has a negative effect on quality since it affects the color of the wine. The effects of the weather are attenuated in places with limestone because of the effect of the clay and humidity in the roots; the effects are worse in sandy areas, as well as for vines that are less than twelve years old, as the roots are generally too superficial.[12][_better source needed_]
*[edit] Wines*






A Tempranillo varietal wine in a glass, showing typically intense purple colouring


Tempranillo wines are ruby red in colour, while aromas and flavours can include berries, plum, tobacco, vanilla, leather and herb.[13] Often making up as much as 90% of a blend, Tempranillo is less frequently bottled as a single varietal. Being low in both acidity and sugar content, it is most commonly blended with Grenache (known as _Garnacha_ in Spain), Carignan (known as _Mazuela_ in Spain), Graciano, Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. Blending the grape with Carignan makes a brighter and more acidic wine.[1] Tempranillo is the major component of the typical Rioja blends and constitutes 90-100% of Ribera del Duero wines.[1] In Australia, Tempranillo is blended with Grenache and Syrah. In Portugal, where it is known as _Tinta Roriz_, it is a major grape in the production of some Port wines.[14]
*[edit] Regions*

*[edit] Spain*

Tempranillo is native to northern Spain and widely cultivated as far south as La Mancha. The two major regions that grow Tempranillo are Rioja, in north central Spain, and Ribera del Duero, which lies a little farther to the south. Substantial quantities are also grown in the Penedès, Navarra and Valdepeñas regions.[13]
Tempranillo is known under a number of local synonyms in different regions of Spain: Cencibel and Tinto Fino are used in several regions, and it is known as Tinta del País in Ribera del Duero and the surrounding area, Tinta de Toro in Toro, Ull de llebre in Catalonia and Morisca in Extremadura.
*[edit] Portugal*

The grape plays a role in the production of wines in two regions of Portugal, central Alentejo and Douro. In Alentejo Central it is known as Aragonez and used in red table wine blends of variable quality, while in the Douro it is known as Tinta Roriz and mainly used in blends to make port wine.[14]
*[edit] New World production*






The original 1993 planting of Tempranillo at Red Willow Vineyard in Washington state.


Tempranillo arrived in California bearing the name Valdepeñas, and it was grown in the Central Valley at the turn of the 20th century. Since the climate of the Central Valley was not ideal for the grape, it was used as a blending grape for jug wine.[1] California has since started to use it for fine wines. In Texas, the soils of the High Plains and Hill Country have been compared to those of northern Spain. Tempranillo has been well received in Texas and has grown to be considered the state's signature grape.[15][16]
In Oregon State, the grape was introduced by Earl Jones of Abacela Vineyards and Winery, in the Umpqua Valley.[1] In Southern Oregon, near Medford, the Applegate Valley wine appellation is now growing some good Tempranillo grapes (http://applegatewinetrail.com/). The Valley View Vineyardwas established there back in the 1972 and their Tempranillo is now available on Amazon.com. Their climate (hot during the summer day, and cool overnight) seems to be perfect for the Tempranillo grape. In Australia Tempranillo is grown in the McLaren Vale region.[17] Tempranillo has also been introduced by some wine producers in Thailand.[18] The varietal is extensively grown in Argentina, Chile, and Mexico.
In Washington state, Tempranillo was one of the varieties pioneered in the state by Red Willow Vineyard in the Yakima Valley AVA with its first commercial planting of the variety in 1993.[19]
*[edit] Synonyms*






Label showing both Tempranillo and the synonym used in Catalonia, Ull de Llebre.


Tempranillo is known by other names in certain regions. These include:
Albillo Negro, Aldepenas, Aragon, Aragones, Aragonez, Aragonez 51, Aragonez da Ferra, Aragonez de Elvas, Arganda, Arinto Tinto, Cencibel, Cencibera, Chinchillana, Chinchillano, Chinchilyano, Cupani, De Por Aca, Escobera, Garnacho Fono, Grenache de Logrono, Jacibera, Jacibiera, Jacivera, Juan Garcia, Negra de Mesa, Negretto, Ojo de Liebre, Olho de Lebre, Pinuela, Sensibel, Tempranilla, Tempranillo de la Rioja, Tempranillo de Perralta, Tempranillo de Rioja, Tempranillo de Rioza, Tempranillo Rioja, Tinta Aragones, Tinta Corriente, Tinta de Madrid, Tinta de Santiago, Tinta de Toro, Tinta do Inacio, Tinta do Pais, Tinta Fina, Tinta Madrid, Tinta Monteira, Tinta Monteiro, Tinta Roris, Tinta Roriz, Tinta Santiago, Tinto Aragon, Tinto Aragonez, Tinto de la Ribera, Tinto de Madrid, Tinto de Rioja, Tinto de Toro, Tinto del Pais, Tinto del Toro, Tinto Fino, Tinto Madrid, Tinto Pais, Tinto Ribiera, Tinto Riojano, Ull de Liebre, Ull de Llebre, Valdepenas, Verdiell, Vid de

Tempranillo is ,The King of Spanish wines,Its varies in Usage, As does The* Cabernet,*Or the *SANGIOVESE* It is part of the backbone* Of the Spanish *wine industry, Regardless of the name it's given, It is still tampanella.Have any of you out there,ever made a TEMPRANILLO,It can be a very finicky Wine, to work with I did some three years in a row From Chilean juice,Even though this is basically an every day table wine, It really does has nice characteristics,I am not sure if this comes in the kit form or not But if it does , do a kit Then by all means try this . It is quite distinctive and different Very Similar to A SANGIOVESE As stated before But I think with the kit The more concentrated You will have more definition in the finished product,if you have chance To buy an inexpensive bottle, Then by all means do so, Expander your palette– You might be surprised.


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## soccer0ww

Veris winery in Paso Robles makes a sparkling almond wine. It is quite nice. The only thing I do know about their process is that they use almond paste.


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## joeswine

*Almond wine*

That is then there fpac..understand?


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## joeswine

*Spanish wines continued*

] Let us get back on track, some of the greatest wines in the world are Spanish wines wines that we come to know in our everyday language are Spanish wines . Here are just some. 

E
Main article: Madeira wine
Madeira is a fortified wine made in the Madeira Islands. The wine is produced in a variety of styles ranging from dry wines which can be consumed on their own as an aperitif, to sweet wines more usually consumed with dessert.
*Marsala wine*

Main article: Marsala wine
Marsala wine is a wine from Sicily that is available in both fortified and unfortified versions.[6] It was first produced in 1772 by an English merchant, John Woodhouse, as an inexpensive substitute for sherry and port,[7] and gets its name from the island's port, Marsala.[6] The fortified version is blended with brandy to make two styles, the younger, slightly weaker _Fine_, which is at least 17% abv and aged at least four months; and the _Superiore_, which is at least 18%, and aged at least two years. The unfortified Marsala wine is aged in wooden casks for five years or more and reaches a strength of 18% by evaporation.[6]
* Port wine*

Main article: Port wine
Port wine (also known simply as Port) is a fortified wine from the Douro Valley in the northern provinces of Portugal.[8] It is typically a sweet red wine, but also comes in dry, semi-dry and white varieties.
* Sherry*






A degustation of sherries


Main article: Sherry
Sherry is a fortified wine made from white grapes that are grown near the town of Jerez, Spain. The word "sherry" is an anglicization of Jerez. In earlier times, sherry was known as _sack_ (from the Spanish _saca_, meaning "a removal from the solera"). In the European Union "sherry" is a protected designation of origin; therefore, all wine labeled as "sherry" must legally come from the Sherry Triangle, which is an area in the province of Cádiz between Jerez de la Frontera, Sanlúcar de Barrameda, and El Puerto de Santa María.[9]
After fermentation is complete, sherry is fortified with brandy. Because the fortification takes place after fermentation, most sherries are initially dry, with any sweetness being added later. In contrast, port wine (for example) is fortified halfway through its fermentation, which stops the process so that not all of the sugar is turned into alcohol.
Sherry is produced in a variety of styles, ranging from dry, light versions such as finos to much darker and sometimes sweeter versions known as olorosos.

Tell me out there in our day who does not remember Harvey's Bristol cream Sherry ? I know I thoI know I thought that was the cats meow, how many of you used vermouth in your drinks ? ports are an outstanding variety of the wine style they have tremendous history and the fabulous heritage , were going to go into these little more ports are one of my favorite,how about you ? ones the last time you had a good port? take the time to roam the aisles of your favorite spirits shop and see what they had their , even if you do not buy anything just look . Educate your mind in your senses................. There is a lot to digest , here . Take your time .


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## joeswine

*sicilly the land of the many cultures and the wines they inspired*........ stay tuned


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## YourCaptain

Runningwolf said:


> How many almonds did you add per gallon? Was there an issue with the oils? I am guessing you can buy just plain shelled almonds, right? I just started a cherry and I am doing half with chocolate and the other half was going to be plain. Can you explain what you did please?



Newbie me wants to know how to add chocolate, when, in what format and what quantities


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## joeswine

*adding--- additives*

If I were to add chocolate it probable would be in powdered form,first it would desolve better and with less oils in it as apposed to a bar or chips for sure,I would also do a test run on this run meaning,if you intend to make a 3 gallon batch then when your ready to do it ,be prepared to move forward a a moments notice.extack a gallon and start to mix in the chocolate (this should be done after the wine is finished)then start with a tablespoon at a time stirring in as you go along,until you think you have reached your taste profile,then let it set overnight to macerate(or fully blend in)taste again if you need to adjust ,adjust if not (you are keeping notes on what you 've added?)then proceed to do the same to the balance of the wine and bottle ASAP.NOW!

if all goes well in a week or two open up a bottle and see you what you have,,,,,enjoy,I know it sounds like a lot of work but that's wine making.............


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## saramc

YourCaptain said:


> Newbie me wants to know how to add chocolate, when, in what format and what quantities



Here is what works for me: 
If you want to add the chocolate preferment you should consider 4 oz by weight per gallon of a good Dutch- processed unsweetened cocoa powder, Droste is my favorite and I really like Hershey's Special Dark Unsweetened Cocoa Powder (though it is not Dutch-processed). Add the powder after your must has been prepared, SG determined and be prepared for a massive amount of chocolate foam and fudgy lees. It is easier to incorporate if you blend the powder with a bit of warmed liquid from your must. It really takes a good 1-2 years for the oils in cocoa powder to break down in the wine, to reach their full sinful sensory potential. Once you rack off any gross lees involving fruit you can leave the chocolate lees intact, regardless of how thick. So, I strongly encourage the use of fine mesh straining bags to contain any fruit pulp. Remember, you want as much chocolate contact time as you can get; but go about your normal racking process, you will drop cocoa for a while. Using Dutch-processed cocoa helps cut the processing down to 9-12 months, though even longer, even better. Do not let the commercial chocolate based wines lull you away from making a chocolate wine at home. I have yet to find a commercial chocolate wine that even compares to one made at home. And given proper time/attention, your chocolate wine does become crystal clear--no fining needed.
You can opt to add 1 cup Hershey's Syrup per gallon to a wine which is degassed and clear. The wine drops clear within 1-2 weeks of adding the syrup and can then be racked like any other wine with lees. If you want to retain the residual sugar from the syrup just be sure to stabilize wine with k-meta + sorbate prior to addition of syrup. And there is even Hershey's Special Dark Syrup on the market now. 
I have not used a chocolate bar in my winemaking.


----------



## joeswine

*Adding chocolate*

EXCELLENT COMMENT,


----------



## joeswine

*Back to sicilian wine*

cava 
HAS ANYONE OUT THERE MADE GRILLO,THIS IS A OUTSTANDING WHITE WINE STEEPED IN HISTORY ,IT CAME OUT ONCE AS A KIT I MADE IT. IT WAS GORGEOUS.TOP TO BOTTOM A GREAT KIT ,IF YOU HAVE THE GOOD FORTUNE TO SEE ONE TRY IT OR AT YOUR LOCAL STATE OR SPIRIT SHOP LOOK FOR IT AND BUY YOURSELF A TASTE TREAT,GRILLO.


SPANISH WINES AND THINGS TO KNOW



 

 
Xarel·lo is one of the principal grapes of the Spanish sparkling wine Cava.


Cava is a Spanish sparkling wine made in the traditional method of the French sparkling wine Champagne. The definition of Cava is _Vino Espumoso e Calidad Producido en una Región Determinada_ (_VECPRD_). It originated in the Catalonia region at the Codorníu Winery in the late 19th century. The wine was originally known as _Champaña_ until Spanish producers officially adopted the term "Cava" (cellar) in 1970 in reference to the underground cellars in which the wines ferment and age in the bottle. The early Cava industry was nurtured by the phylloxera epidemic of the late 19th century, which caused the destruction and uprooting of vineyards planted with red grape varieties. Inspired by the success of Champagne, Codorníu and others encouraged vineyard owners to replant with white grape varieties like Macabeo, Parellada and Xarel·lo to use for sparkling wine production. These grapes are still the primary grapes of Cava today though some producers are experimenting with the use of the Champagne wine grapes of Chardonnay and Pinot noir.[11]
For most of its existence, the production of Cava was not regulated to a particular region of DO but rather to the grapes and method of production. Upon Spain's acceptance into the European Union in 1986, efforts were undertaken to designate specific areas for Cava production. Today use of the term "Cava" is restricted to production around select municipalities in Catalonia, Aragon, Castile and León, Valencia, Extremadura, Navarra, Basque Country and Rioja. Around 95% of Spain's total Cava production is from Catalonia, with the village 





*Cava*


----------



## joeswine

*the wonderful world of rasins*

Raisins in California Land prices in the 1870's ranged from $3 - $20 per acre in California so large "spreads" could be bought inexpensively. As word of potential profits spread, land in the San Joaquin became a very attractive investment for developers and farmers. ​ 
 In the late 1800's many Armenians, recognized as some of the world's most experienced viticulturists, came to the Central Valley. Even today, many raisin growers in California are of Armenian descent. Later, in the 1950's, immigrant farmers from India found great success in the raisin industry and play a big part in the industry today.




While the muscat grape was generally regarded as the best raisin producer, it was a seeded raisin and the consumer didn't like seeds. Consequently, muscat raisins had to be seeded and this meant that the seeds were forced through the skin of the grapes, resulting in a sticky raisin. Raisin sales in the 1870's were limited to people willing to separate the sticky raisins by hand. What the growers needed, to expand consumer interest, was a seedless raisin grape.
In 1876, a Scottish immigrant living in the Northern Sacramento Valley, William Thompson first introduced the Lady deCoverly seedless grape - a thin-skinned, seedless, sweet and tasty grape - at the Marysville (California) District Fair. These grapes would later become known as Thompson Seedless grape. Since then, many other equally high-quality varieties have been developed, including the Fiesta, Dovine, and Selma Pete.
Drying





_Chunche_, naturally ventilated sheds for drying grapes into raisins in Xinjiang


There are three types of drying methods: sun drying, shade drying, and mechanical drying. [10] Sun drying is an inexpensive process; however, many concerns such as environmental contamination, insect infections and microbial deterioration are inevitable and the resulting raisins are often of low quality. Additionally, sun drying is a very slow process and may not produce the most desirable raisins. [10] On the other hand, mechanical drying is completed in a safer and more controlled environment where rapid drying is guaranteed. One type of mechanical drying is to use microwave heating. Water molecules in the grapes will absorb microwave energy resulting in rapid evaporation. Microwave heating often produces puffy raisins. [10]


----------



## joeswine

*Going off line for a week*

GOING OF LINE FOR A WEEK.....................


----------



## joeswine

*Wines of the world*

Welcome back, we are going to were going to continue to our trip around the wine world Lodge a lot. Lots of luscious wines to see, stay tuned, b*y the way*
.what are your favorite wine.


----------



## joeswine

*The port*

*Portuguese wine*






 


The traditional rabelo boat, used to transport Port Wine from the Douro Valley to the cellars near the city of Porto.


*Portuguese wine* is the result of traditions introduced to the region by ancient civilizations, such as the Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Greeks, and mostly the Romans. Portugal started to export its wines to Rome during the Roman Empire. Modern exports developed with trade to England after the Methuen Treaty in 1703. From this commerce a wide variety of wines started to be grown in Portugal. And, in 1758, one of the first wine-producing region of the world, the _Região Demarcada do Douro_ was created under the orientation of Marquis of Pombal, in the Douro Valley. Portugal has two wine producing regions protected by UNESCO as World Heritage: the Douro Valley Wine Region (_Douro Vinhateiro_) and Pico Island Wine Region (_Ilha do Pico Vinhateira_). Portugal has a large variety of native breeds, producing a very wide variety of different wines with distinctive personality.


----------



## joeswine

*Continued*

*Production [*



 


Sherry barrels aging.


The original reason for fortifying wine was to preserve it, since ethanol is a natural antiseptic. Even though other preservation methods now exist, fortification continues to be used because the process can add distinct flavors to the finished product.[_citation needed_]
Although grape brandy is most commonly added to produce fortified wines, the additional alcohol may also be neutral spirit that has been distilled from grapes, grain, sugar beets, or sugarcane. Regional appellation laws may dictate the types of spirit that are permitted for fortification.
The source of the additional alcohol and the method of its distillation can affect the flavor of the fortified wine. If neutral spirit is used, it will usually have been produced with a continuous still, rather than a pot still.[2]
When added to wine before the fermentation process is complete, the alcohol in the distilled beverage kills the yeast and leaves residual sugar behind. The end result is a wine that is both sweeter and stronger, normally containing about 20% alcohol by volume (ABV).
During the fermentation process, yeast cells in the must continue to convert sugar into alcohol until the must reaches an alcohol level of 16%–18%. At this level, the alcohol becomes toxic to the yeast and kills it. If fermentation is allowed to run to completion, the resulting wine will (in most cases) be low in sugar and will be considered a dry wine. The earlier in the fermentation process that alcohol is added, the sweeter the resulting wine will be. For drier fortified wine styles, such as sherry, the alcohol is added shortly before or after the end of the fermentation.
In the case of some fortified wine styles (such as late harvest and botrytized wines), a naturally high level of sugar will inhibit the yeast. This causes fermentation to stop before the wine can become dry.[2]

*Mistelle [*

Mistelle (Italian: _mistella_; French: _mistelle_; Spanish, Portuguese, Galician and Catalan: _mistela_, from Latin mixtella/mixtvm "mix") is sometimes used as an ingredient in fortified wines, particularly Vermouth, Marsala and Sherry, though it is used mainly as a base for apéritifs such as the French Pineau des Charentes.[3] It is produced by adding alcohol to non-fermented or partially fermented grape juice.[4] The addition of alcohol stops the fermentation and, as a consequence Mistelle is sweeter than fully fermented grape juice in which the sugars turn to alcohol.[5]
*Varieties [*



 


Madeira wine


*Madeira wineMain article: Madeira wine*

Madeira is a fortified wine made in the Madeira Islands. The wine is produced in a variety of styles ranging from dry wines which can be consumed on their own as an aperitif, to sweet wines more usually consumed with dessert.
*Marsala wine [*

Main article: Marsala wine
Marsala wine is a wine from Sicily that is available in both fortified and unfortified versions.[6] It was first produced in 1772 by an English merchant, John Woodhouse, as an inexpensive substitute for sherry and port,[7] and gets its name from the island's port, Marsala.[6] The fortified version is blended with brandy to make two styles, the younger, slightly weaker _Fine_, which is at least 17% abv and aged at least four months; and the _Superiore_, which is at least 18%, and aged at least two years. The unfortified Marsala wine is aged in wooden casks for five years or more and reaches a strength of 18% by evaporation.[6]
*Port wine [*

Main article: Port wine
Port wine (also known simply as Port) is a fortified wine from the Douro Valley in the northern provinces of Portugal.[8] It is typically a sweet red wine, but also comes in dry, semi-dry and white varieties.
*Sherry [*



 


A degustation of sherries


----------



## joeswine

*Review*

 DID YOU READ ABOUT THE SHERRIES AND PORT STYLES?


----------



## joeswine

*simple syurp and extracts*

extracts, that work for you.


----------



## RCGoodin

Joe,

Thank you for s great history lesson. Happy 4th also.


----------



## joeswine

*Vineland NJ Amateur Wine Competition Aug 10, 2013*

Vineland NJ is holding their annual Amateur Wine Competition to be held in the city of Vineland, NJ. 
It's free to enter, just send in 3 bottles. 
I am attaching the form for everyone to download.
Instructions are on the form.
I wont be entering as I will be helping orchestrate it, so now all of you have a chance to win!!








Cheers!
Joeswine 

View attachment 2013 wine competition entry form.pdf


----------



## joeswine

*party wine kits*

THE COSMO KIT IS A HIT A ROUND HERE NOTICE ALL THE BASICS APPLY ,FOLLOW THE PROCESS,SG AT 1.10 TO START THAT'S THE KEY,REMEMBER THAT FOR A GOOD TASTING PARTY WINE ,GREAT WINE BASE DRINK.


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## RCGoodin

Joe, You'd be proud of me. I opened a bottle of my Orange Almond Chardonnay last night. It was great. It's about a 1 1/2 years old now and has a great finish. I taste the almond a lot more than the orange, but that is the way we created it.

Ok, Happy Wining to all.............


----------



## joeswine

*almond wine*




I HAVE FINIAL BOTTLED MY ALMOND WINE AND IT IS GREAT, I'll LET YOU KNOW IF I PLACE WITH IT IN THE UP COMING CONTEST OR NOT.

THIS IS A GREAT BALANCE BETWEEN FRUIT AND WINE OR IN THIS CASE ALMOND AND FRUIT FROWARD CHARDENAY...WHEN YOUR READY S=WE CAN SWAP 375 BOTTLES FOR TASTING . GLAD YOU CHOICE TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.


----------



## Sammyk

So cool, Joe! Ours is a little on the sweet side but we do finally like it.


----------



## joeswine

*fun with extracts*

 sammyk and rc goodin have applied the extracts method and have had a great experience with them have you tried to apply yet? using simple syrup and a base you can create a taste of your own....review the process ,ask questions, have FUN WITH WINE AND EXTRACTS.
​
All recipes aremeasured out with one quart Ball Jar. ​
*Citrus Extract*:Consists of The zest of 2 limes, the zest of 2 lemons, and the zest of 2grapefruits, and the remainder is ever Kleer. 

*Coffee Extract*ill Ball jar up with roasted coffee beans (your choice), fill the balance ofthe Ball jar with Ever Kleer. 

*Cinnemon Extract*-~approx. 12 sticks per Ball jar, top up with Ever Kleer

*Lemon extract*- The Zest of 12 lemons per jar, top up withEver Kleer

*Orange extract*: Thezest of approx.. 8 oranges per jar. Valenzia oranges work best but any typewill do. 

*Key Lime Extract*:1 bag of key limes with the limes cut in half. 

*Vanilla Extract*:6 Madagascar Vanilla Beans, sliced length wise. Put all 6 in a ball jar and topoff with Ever Kleer. 

At the end of one full year its best to pour the extractthrough some sort of filter (I strain mine through a coffee filter) and addsome additional zest of the same type back to it and top it off with EverKleer.

​
*Making Simple Syrup*​
Basic mix consists of : 2 qt. ball jars of cane sugar to 1qt. ball jar of water. 

*Process:*

Place measured out sugar into a metal pot. Add the water tothe mix (It’s a 2 to 1 ratio-mix). Bring the mixture to a boil, constantlystirring from the beginning of the process to the end until the liquid is clear.Have the ball jars already sanitized and ready for filling. Bring the simplesyrup TO the jar and and funnel it into them (make sure your funnel is clean,too!) to fill them up. It will be hot so be very careful. Place the lids andmetal rings onto the jars to seal them.

* Note*_: we put the very hot liquid into the jarswhile it is hot so as it cools it creates a vacuum seal to keep the mixturegood. Done this way, your simple syrup will have a very long shelf life. _

Zesting Made Simple​
Zesting is the process of the removal of the color of mostcitrus fruits and other entities that are oil extracted (for their essence). Weuse a micro plane zester to accomplish our end. See pictures. (If you do not have a micro plane zester you can use afine cheese grater (Your goal is to get the color off the fruit, not the pitch,which is the “white stuff” underneath the very top layer of the fruit.)


----------



## Stressbaby

Joe, 

There may be another way of making extracts which may work for foods like nuts or coconut with a lot of fat. That method is gelatin filtering. It sounds like it uses a combination of gelatin fining and freeze distillation to arrive at a clear, water-based extract. 
I intend to try this with coconut and add it to a gallon of my lemongrass wine. I will post results. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/dining/05curi.html
http://www.molecularrecipes.com/techniques/gelatin-filtered-consomme-gelatin-filtration/
http://www.eatfoo.com/archives/2008/02/gelatin_filtration.php


----------



## joeswine

*Fun with extracts*

GO FOR IT.............


----------



## the_rayway

For citrus fruits, I actually use my potato peeler - it takes off the exact right amount of zest - no pith - and it's in nice large pieces


----------



## joeswine

*equipement?*

what ever is better for you use it, I chose to use the zester so that the orange zest particulars are small and quicker to give up the oils, do as you like ,that's what were all about trying different ways.


----------



## joeswine

*SIMPLE SYURP/Extracts at a glance/*

A WHOLE OTHER PALATE TO WORK WITH


----------



## joeswine

*almond wine*

finally a almond wine that could take a second place at 2 years old, but where going to take this one even higher, just watch.
actually the base is a Californian fruit forward Chardonnay perfectly match wine with an aroma fill almond extract and what a taste.this is and will be a desert wine winner ...


----------



## LoneStarLori

This is a project inspired from Joeswine Sangiovese. I had just started a WE Mezza Luna white kit the day before I saw his thread so it was a great time to try adding some white raisins. Since I can never leave well enough alone, I decided to add some Plumeria flowers that I had growing in my yard. They are not a real strong scent and I think they will add just a little to the bouquet. I'm going to try and post some pics of the progress. 
I let it run it's course int he primary bucket according to directions on the kit. Starting with a 1.10 and ending with a 1.01 SG. Then added the raisins, tannin and flowers when I transferred it to the 2ndary. I was so excited to get it going, I forgot to add the raisins prior to transferring it to the carboy, so I had to put it back in the primary and start over. (duh) On day 2 I have bubble action!
This is my first kit wine and I probably should have done it as directed. But it tasted a little light to me so I wanted to try and a little something.


----------



## joeswine

*Mezza luna white*

SO FAR SO GOOD,NICE TO SEE YOUR PROGRESSAND WELCOME ABOARD I LIKE THE MODE SO FAR........


----------



## joeswine

*Sangiovese move forward*

Were going to lock this sangiovese into the two other threads are running that would be the mascot and the amarone so that you can see all three processes at one time======* stay tuned *


----------



## LoneStarLori

This is a project inspired from Joeswine Sangiovese. I had just started a WE Mezza Luna white kit the day before I saw his thread so it was a great time to try adding some white raisins. Since I can never leave well enough alone, I decided to add some Plumeria flowers that I had growing in my yard. They are not a real strong scent and I think they will add just a little to the bouquet. I'm going to try and post some pics of the progress. 
I let it run it's course int he primary bucket according to directions on the kit. Starting with a 1.10 and ending with a 1.01 SG. Then added the raisins, tannin and flowers when I transferred it to the 2ndary. I was so excited to get it going, I forgot to add the raisins prior to transferring it to the carboy, so I had to put it back in the primary and start over. (thats why it looks like I'm going backwards) On day 2 I have bubble action!
This is my first kit wine and I probably should have done it as directed. But it tasted a little light to me so I wanted to try and a little something.
Day 4 and not much has changed. Not getting any bubbles, but as per the kit, this is normal.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Just thought I would update the progress of this WE Mezza Luna White.
The grapes have been sitting in the carboy for 10 days now. Although it is time to rack and treat with the given chems, I have to hold off for a few days. Seems no one in my area (there is ONE brew store in a 100 mile radius) carries Super Kleer as recommended by Joeswine. So I have to find some in the big cities over the holiday weekend. 
Here are a few pics though to show the progress. 
I have a concern. The F-pac that came with the kit had some of the foil fro the bag liner loose in the bag. I could see the holes in the foil and the contents of the liquid. The replacement I got from the vendor also has one. Is this common and is it safe if I filter out the foil pieces?


----------



## non-grapenut

joeswine said:


> finally a almond wine that could take a second place at 2 years old, but where going to take this one even higher, just watch.
> actually the base is a Californian fruit forward Chardonnay perfectly match wine with an aroma fill almond extract and what a taste.this is and will be a desert wine winner ...



What a great pairing! Can't wait to hear this does. Sounds quite balanced.


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## LoneStarLori

Time to update! After 3 weeks from beginning the process of transforming my WE Mezza Luna White into something more tasty and more personalized with the help of Joeswine, it is time to strain the raisins, stabilize and start clearing. To recap: This is a project inspired from Joeswine Sangiovese. I had just started a WE Mezza Luna white kit the day before I saw his thread so it was a great time to try adding some white raisins. Since I can never leave well enough alone, I decided to add some Plumeria flowers that I had growing in my yard. They are not a real strong scent and I think they will add just a little to the bouquet. 

_I let it run it's course in the primary bucket according to directions on the kit. Starting with a 1.10 and ending with a 1.01 SG. Then added the raisins, tannin and flowers when I transferred it to the 2ndary. _

It is now dry at .992 and looking very nice. I racked down to a 5 gal leaving the raisins behind. Added the sorbate, kmeta and Super-Kleer. (Joes preference, which I now see why). Also did a some degassing. I can't believe how it is starting to clear after only one one hour!
Although I have not made this kit, or any kit for that matter, I have no doubt the raisins have made it heavenly. Even before adding the fPac, it is full of body and almost a buttery mouthfeel. I am really excited to see how this plays out. I'm not even sure I will add the fpac. It's that darn good.


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## geek

Nice Lori.


----------



## jamesngalveston

Lori, i am lost in this thread partially becuase of my high octane pineapple wine i bottled today...so for give me,if im wrong.
always add super kleer after either fpack are simple syrup, flavoring, etc.
sometimes it does not work as it is suppose to using there directions..I have a battle going on with them now for that purpose..
your wine looks great...
will be in rockport for the hummer festival...would you trade a wine with me...


----------



## LoneStarLori

jamesngalveston said:


> Lori, i am lost in this thread partially becuase of my high octane pineapple wine i bottled today...so for give me,if im wrong.
> always add super kleer after either fpack are simple syrup, flavoring, etc.
> sometimes it does not work as it is suppose to using there directions..I have a battle going on with them now for that purpose..
> your wine looks great...
> will be in rockport for the hummer festival...would you trade a wine with me...



I am doing this kit from a WE Eclipse. I have been also working with Joeswine on this since i got the idea from him adding raisins to his Sangiovese. Now, my kit says to add the fpac at the same time as insinglass which was provided. However, Joe recommended using Super Kleer instead of the insinglass and waiting till it clears to add the fpac.

Since I'm a newbie, I'm just kind of doing what I was told. (he has medals, I don't) I have high hopes for this white. I'll say this, after just 24 hours it is really clear already.

So you're coming to the Hummer festival? I missed it last year and hope I can get over there this year. If you want to trade bottles, I don't have anything bottled yet. Will a nice Trader Joes Shiraz be ok?


----------



## joeswine

*reasons and patients*

Although the instructions call for Lori to add the fpac and clear ,what were doing is side stepping that and doing what I call a pre-clearing, once she is crystal clear she then can add the chems REASONING,she will be adding a fpac it should be a clear wine,putting it into a finished product will give her the advantage to bottle now or allow it to settle out, macerate and become delicious ,it would be the same as me putting unfinished wine into a refrigerator and allowing a cold soak to remove the trash from the wine, only in her case no refrigerator required.​


----------



## LoneStarLori

Aw darn it Joe! 
I was hoping to use this as an excuse to buy a new freezer so I could modify the old chest freezer into a wine fridge.  

Here's a clearing shot. Thought I would take one more before I head out to Houston for a few days.


----------



## geek

super kleer is a quick ***, I've been using it for some time and not looking back...at $1.99 a package it is a winner.


----------



## jamesngalveston

i agree with you geek...do you follow the directions on the package...


----------



## geek

I follow the directions on the package (actually a 2 small pack combo).


----------



## LoneStarLori

To recap what is happening in the transformation of this Eclipse Mezza Luna White kit. This is a project inspired from Joeswines' Sangiovese. (That project can be found in another thread: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/when-good-wines-g-ne-bad-29481/index40.html#post430305 post #394.) He has been graciously helping me and holding my hand through this adventure with my first wine kit.
I had just started a WE Mezza Luna white kit the day before I saw his thread. The kit tasted a little light to me so I wanted to try and a little something. Joes raisin booster made perfect since. After the primary fermentation, I added a pound of white raisins. Since I can never leave well enough alone, I decided to add some Plumeria flowers that I had growing in my yard. They are not a real strong scent and I think they will add just a little to the bouquet. 

I let it run it's course in the primary bucket according to directions on the kit. Starting with a 1.10 and ending with a 1.01 SG. Then added the raisins, tannin and flowers when I transferred it to the 2ndary. 
Below is a picture diary of where we sit so far. I am hoping to be able to add the fpac and bottle it next week. I may let it bulk age a couple of weeks first if I can resist tying up the carboy that much longer.


----------



## geek

Nice process Lori.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Here we are on the last week of tweaking process on my Wine Expert Eclipse Mezza Luna White. I have waited for it to clear from the addition of the kmeta, sorbate and super kleer. Yesterday I racked it again and added the Isinglass, stirred for a couple of minutes then added the fpac and stirred for about 15 mins more because it was still a little gassy. SG went from .992 before fpac to just over 1.01. The wine was pretty dry before the fpac but still has an nice mouthfeel. It is now a little sweeter as I would expect but i think it will all come together and age out very nicely in the next couple of months.


----------



## geek

Lori, what does the fpack consists of in that kit?


----------



## LoneStarLori

geek said:


> Lori, what does the fpack consists of in that kit?



No idea. It doesn't say in the kit instructions or on the box. Just a mystery pack of fluid. Not too sweet, but rather syrupy.


----------



## Tess

did you chop your raisins up Lori, Just wondering if they would give more flavor chopped. thanks for the thread. I have the Wine Expert Mezza Luna White in my shopping cart. I made the Winexpert Vintners Reserve Shiraz and used 2 bottles of my blackNBlue as a Fpack. It worked out really well. Be ready to crack open a bottle after the new year


----------



## LoneStarLori

Tess said:


> did you chop your raisins up Lori, Just wondering if they would give more flavor chopped. thanks for the thread. I have the Wine Expert Mezza Luna White in my shopping cart. I made the Winexpert Vintners Reserve Shiraz and used 2 bottles of my blackNBlue as a Fpack. It worked out really well. Be ready to crack open a bottle after the new year



No, the raisins were whole as Joe suggested. THe Black n blue sounds great! Would that be black and blueberries?


----------



## Tess

I think I would have been a little irritated had they sent me an old fruit pack replacement that expired 2009


----------



## Tess

LoneStarLori said:


> No, the raisins were whole as Joe suggested. THe Black n blue sounds great! Would that be black and blueberries?



OK good to know. Yes blackberry's and Blueberry's. I used a lot of rasins in the primary in that batch. Just made sense it would work well in a Shiraz


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## LoneStarLori

I've never made an fpac before. If I wasn't doing this project with Joeswine, I might have made an attempt to create one instead of using their crappy juice.
And no, I was not happy. WE got a nice email from me today. Let's see if they do anything about it.


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## LoneStarLori

Just a quick photo update. 3 days after adding the fpac and fining agent, it's clearing right up. Anyone up for a game of dirty marbles?


----------



## geek

Lori,

I see this is a WE Mezza Luna white kit, I never tasted that type of wine.
Are you going to add almond extracts per joe's almond wine process and make it an almond wine, or leave as is?


----------



## LoneStarLori

geek said:


> Lori,
> 
> I see this is a WE Mezza Luna white kit, I never tasted that type of wine.
> Are you going to add almond extracts per joe's almond wine process and make it an almond wine, or leave as is?




This won't have any Almond in it. I was trying to see what just the raisins and tannin would do. In my opinion, they turned a really sharp wine into a very smooth and fuller bodied white. 
If I had to compare it, I would say it's kind of a Pino Grigio/Chardonnay mix. Leaning more toward the Pino but using the best of both types. Very crisp up front. Not too sweet, not to dry and a very nice, buttery mouthfeel. The oak is there but not overpowering. 
I am not a tasting expert and my pairing skills don't go much beyond what type to drink while cooking. But I think this one is a good balance that a drinker of either a dry or semi-sweet wine can enjoy. Which is what I was aiming for. One that would make me happy and my 3 daughters all happy.


----------



## Runningwolf

LoneStarLori said:


> Just a quick photo update. 3 days after adding the fpac and fining agent, it's clearing right up. Anyone up for a game of dirty marbles?



LMAO, looking at the picture I thought you had M & M's on the bottom of your carboy, now I have an urge!


----------



## Runningwolf

Hey Joe, I was looking at your extracts and want to try some. Can you post your extracts and pictures in the thread I started "extracts" so we can make them easier to search.Another questions and forgive me if I missed it, have you ever made a Almond extract? Researching it on the internet a few people make it with Almonds but most make it from Stone fruit like cherries and peaches by busting open the pits and using the meat inside of it. Looking for your opinion.


----------



## joeswine

*Party wines*

*WHILE WERE* waiting for the wine to clear lets review *party wines*.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Today was my long awaited bottling day for the Mezza Luna White. I started this from a from a Wine Expert Vintners Reserve on August 12th. This batch was tweaked using Joeswine raisin/tannin addition. I had just started the batch the day before I found his thread on his Sangiovese and was intrigued. Joe has helped me with this all the way. I am a newbie to any winemaking and his expert advice was invaluable. I kept a photo journal to help show the process and also to help me remember what I did. 
My initial impression of the wine after the first 5 days of primary was a very tart and harsh white. I knew I would have to back sweeten, but it lacked body too so the raisins and tannin made sense. As I went along the process, I noticed the wine developing a great body. Now as I bottle it, I can taste a much better, more complex wine than I would have probably had without the tweak. The color is beautiful golden wheat, which I attribute to the golden raisins. Although this is still young, the smell upfront is very noticeably citrus and earthy. The body is amazing. It’s like butterscotch. Not nearly as weak as it was headed to be. The taste is almost like a pear with some kind of blossom (could it be the Plumeria I added?) It’s somewhat nutty which I really didn’t expect but really like. It lingers in the mouth for quite a while and is rather acidic. I expect that to demish with a little more time. All in all, I think I have a pretty darn good wine here. I am absolutely convinced the addition of raisins and tannin made this a wine of a quality other people will drink and be amazed that I made. And not just smile and say, “it’s nice”. Thanks Joe for all the help!

Now a recap on the process:


----------



## LoneStarLori

Now it's time to add the stabilizers:


----------



## LoneStarLori

9-9-2013 I waited for it to clear from the addition of the kmeta, sorbate and super kleer. Yesterday I racked it again and added the Isinglass, stirred for a couple of minutes then added the fpac and stirred for about 15 mins more because it was still a little gassy. SG went from .992 before fpac to just over 1.01. The wine was pretty dry before the fpac but still has an nice mouthfeel. It is now a little sweeter as I would expect but i think it will all come together and age out very nicely in the next couple of months.

9-24-2013 Bottling day! Once I got the hang of it all, everything went pretty smooth. Now I can work on my Sangiovese kit while I wait for this to age. Thanks for following, Lori

Total yield on the 6 gallon kit, 17-750ml, 6-375ml and 1- 1.5L.


----------



## Stressbaby

Lori,
Great series, and interesting thought to add plumeria to the secondary. Sounds like you can barely sense it in the final product.
I've made a couple of batches of plumeria wine and they are terrific.


----------



## GaDawg

Lori, Great!
Thank you for sharing


----------



## Julie

Lori,

That was a very good documentary on your wine process, thanks for sharing.


----------



## LoneStarLori

thanks y'all! This was a fun project. So much fun, I decided to order a cheapo kit from Amazon last night to see what I can do with it. Reserve Du Chateau 4 Week Wine Kit, Italian Orvieto Style. $50. with a $3. coupon.
I'm thinking of adding more flowers this time but not sure what goes well with white. Do you think dried Elderberry flowers will work?


----------



## Julie

i think dried elderberry flowers is a great idea!


----------



## Jericurl

Lori, 
Thank you so much for posting this! (and of course, thank you Joe for starting this entire thread. Fantastic reading!)

I have this exact wine kit in my living room right now waiting to be opened.
I had started a thread looking for ideas about splitting the kit after fermentation to try some different things.
I don't have plumeria, but I definitely think I want to try adding the golden raisins.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Julie, I got the Elderberry flowers today.. Yay! I found a real brew shop and it was only only 2 hours away in San Antonio. lol 

Jeri, I think you'll like the raisin and tannin addition, although I am not sure about splitting the batch. I would have to defer to the experts here, but I can't really think of a place in the process that it would be do-able. it might be difficult to split the chems and get it right.


----------



## rob

Very nice post! One of the best I have seen


----------



## joeswine

*Splitting the batch*

*HERES THE PLAN*,MAKE THE WINE IN IT'S ENTIRETY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ADDING THE FPAC,AT THAT POINT SPLIT YOUR WINE ADD ONLY 1/2 THE FPAC ( OR TO TASTE)TO ONE PORTION AND DRIED ELDERBERRY TO THE OTHER. Chardonnay makes the best wine for flora essence if you make it fruit forward .


----------



## Jericurl

Oh interesting, I hadn't thought of doing that. 
I'll do some reading up on elderberries today!
I've still got some time before my primary bucket will be empty.


----------



## RCGoodin

Lori,

Great posting. Thank you for all your extra effort. Anyone, getting started, will really appreciate your thoroughness. 

Please explain the melting capsule procedure. Are those standard capsules dipped in very hot water, or are they special capsules? I've seen where wax was used for sealing the corks, but unfamiliar with melting.


----------



## LoneStarLori

RCGoodin said:


> Lori,
> 
> Great posting. Thank you for all your extra effort. Anyone, getting started, will really appreciate your thoroughness.
> 
> Please explain the melting capsule procedure. Are those standard capsules dipped in very hot water, or are they special capsules? I've seen where wax was used for sealing the corks, but unfamiliar with melting.



They are standard capsules made of PVC. From Portugal. I had bought some others that were solid black and thicker, but they didn't melt, or shrink in a very clean way. They also had a rather large seam on the side so I went with the decorated ones. 
The process is just putting the cap on and holding it on with something while you dip in in simmering water. I used a coat hanger, but there is a tool you can buy that holds it on and also opens the wine juice bags. See Joe's posts on Sangiovese. There's a picture there. When you dip it in the water, it shrinks to fit the bottle. Only take a few seconds and wan-la!


----------



## joeswine

*Sealing bottles*

*THERE *are other methods but this is what we use.


----------



## RCGoodin

I like it....................


----------



## LoneStarLori

Joe, did you pre-heat the bottle in the water before you added the hat. Then dip it again with the hat on? If so, that might be why my thicker ones didn't shrink nicely.


----------



## joeswine

*putting on the seal*

YES,THE WATER SHOULD BE AT A ROLLING BOIL WHILE IN USE........................THE ALMOND WINE IS ON IT'S WAY ENJOY ,LET ME KNOW WHEN IT ARRIVES..............REMEMBER IT'S DESERT WINE.


----------



## LoneStarLori

I'm looking forward to it. I will even make a special dinner just so I can have desert.


----------



## Jericurl

Ok, the elderberries are on the way.
I just have to order two 3 gal carboys and then I will be ready to make this.
I'm so excited!
Any other suggestions?


----------



## joeswine

*base wine*

What is going to be your base wine?


----------



## Jericurl

The mezza luna white kit


----------



## joeswine

*Wine base*

That should be adequate to do the job , that come's with an fpac, if so add the elderberries after you've added the pack and cleared, be preprepared to rack a third time before bottling have an extra package of super clear around, got it! However if you want the elderberries to take the lead in the mix at the elderberries in the secondary then clear then flavor package, okay


----------



## LoneStarLori

Here we go again! 
I started a World Vineyard Sangiovese kit and wanted to follow Joeswine raisin tweak again. When I'm done, I will send him a bottle so he can compare to his. I started the kit on Sept 13. here are a few pictures of the process of staring the kit. I did not top it all the way to 6 gals with water, I stopped at 5 1/2 gallons. I use only spring water in my kits because I have read the minerals help the yeast with fermentation. 

(9-14-13): Added the bentonite, grape juice, 2 packages of oak. Stirred well and covered the fermenter with a cotton cloth. Starting SG 1.104 with temp correction. Yikes!
(9-19-13): SG .102, Added raisins and 3 TBL of wine tannin. Now for some reason, i decided to do this without racking. Thinking I could finish it up in the bucket. Then age in the carboy. (turned out to be a mistake)
(9-24-13: SG .994 Had to leave town for a few days so I snapped the lid and an airlock on the primary.
(9-27-13): SG .994 Since the SG is holding I decided to rack to a carboy. While tasting during the rack, I wasn't getting the fullness of the raisins that I had in the Mezza Luna White. So I decided it was time to message Joe and he reminded me that this is not a 4 week kit. The raisins needed more time to work. So, I added a fresh batch of raisins. I did not add anymore tannin. It's still in there doing it's thing. But I did add a handful of Hungarian oak cubes. 
(10-3-13) The raisins are very, very slowly rising to the top. Even thought the SG is holding steady, I am not going to start the clearing process until I am sure the raisins have given there all. As Joe put it, "ALL WILL BE GOOD IN THE END,IF IT'S NOT GOOD RIGHT NOW THAT MEANS IT'S NOT THE END YET!"


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Update on the Sangiovese. The joy of tweaking.*

10-14-13 (SG 1.002) The SG has increased from the new raisins but fermentation has stopped. Since I added the new raisins after racking when the wine was almost dry, they did not rise to the top like they have in the past. They remained suspended throughout the liquid. Not on top and not on bottom. Strange. This caused a problem when racking. I kept getting raisins stuck in my auto syphon causing it to draw lots of air, I added a piece of cheesecloth to pre-filter it. 
I let this sit for a few weeks because I was traveling and it really paid off. While tasting the thief's share, I was shocked. This had turned into an amazing wine since the addition of the second batch of raisins and the short period of aging. Joe was right again. It was so drinkable! Smooth, velvety mouthfeel and just the right amount of body and dryness. Just sweet enough, no fpac required. It doesn't need a thing. I almost didn't want to bother clearing it was so good. I can't wait to see how this is in 3 months.


----------



## RCGoodin

Lori,

Thank you for sharing and it looks like you're doing a fantastic job.

Question: In the future, if you made a white, would you add white raisins, tannins and oak in addition to the manufacturers ingredients? Do you think it would have the same effect by adding more body and mouth feel?


----------



## LoneStarLori

RCGoodin said:


> Lori,
> 
> Thank you for sharing and it looks like you're doing a fantastic job.
> 
> Question: In the future, if you made a white, would you add white raisins, tannins and oak in addition to the manufacturers ingredients? Do you think it would have the same effect by adding more body and mouth feel?


 
Thanks RC. I did a WE Mezza Luna White a couple of months ago using the same techniques and white raisins. It's on this thread starting here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f61/almond-wine-9155/index21.html#post445464

I bottled it 3 weeks ago and opened one last night because I needed some to top off another white. I was surprised at how it has changed in three weeks. It has lost it's young tang and has a really great mouthfeel, plenty enough body for me and a noticeable fruit finish. I can't wait to share it with my family at Thanksgiving. I won't hesitate to give a few bottles away at Christmas along with the Sangiovese either. That's gonna knock their socks off.


----------



## CastleWines

I have made small batches of this and found that if you add almond extract when final clearing it adds a lot of flavor. About 2-3 table spoons per gallon.


----------



## joeswine

*do you know when and where?*





*Remembering the differences* 
*Capitalization*, is the process of adding sugar unfermented grape must in order to increase the alcohol content after fermentation. The technique was developed by the French chemist John Antoine Claude CHAPTAL, for whom it was named contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wines sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in capitalized wine cannot be tasted.





Potassium metabolic sulfate, wine, or must additive, where informed sulfur dioxide gas. This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as protective antioxidants, protecting both the color, and a delicate flavor typical dosage is 1/4 teaspoon potassium metabolic sulfate from 6 gallon bucket of must. Winemaking equipment to sanitize by sprang with a 1% solution or two tables teaspoons potassium metabolic sulfate per liter solution.





_Potassium sorbate_, is used to inhibit molds, and yeast in wine. Also known affectionately as wine stabilizer potassium sorbate produces sorbate acid when added to the wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is rack for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will render any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. when a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent from re-fermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabolic sulfate. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines, and some hard ciders but may be added to table wines which exhibit difficulty in maintaining clearly after fining.





*Do you remember these*? Do You know how to use these? What you should do is copy this now this whole thread and post in your work. As a reference point as I do.



.......... until it becomes memory.




_Last edited by joeswine; 10-17-2013 at 04:36 PM.



*Remembering the differences* 
*Capitalization*, is the process of adding sugar unfermented grape must in order to increase the alcohol content after fermentation. The technique was developed by the French chemist John Antoine Claude CHAPTAL, for whom it was named contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wines sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in capitalized wine cannot be tasted.





Potassium metabolic sulfate, wine, or must additive, where informed sulfur dioxide gas. This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as protective antioxidants, protecting both the color, and a delicate flavor typical dosage is 1/4 teaspoon potassium metabolic sulfate from 6 gallon bucket of must. Winemaking equipment to sanitize by sprang with a 1% solution or two tables teaspoons potassium metabolic sulfate per liter solution.





Potassium sorbate, is used to inhibit molds, and yeast in wine. Also known affectionately as wine stabilizer potassium sorbate produces sorbate acid when added to the wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is rack for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will render any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. when a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent from re-fermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabolic sulfate. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines, and some hard ciders but may be added to table wines which exhibit difficulty in maintaining clearly after fining.





*Do you remember these*? Do You know how to use these? What you should do is copy this now this whole thread and post in your work. As a reference point as I do.



.......... until it becomes memory.




Last edited by joeswine; 10-17-2013 at 04:36 PM. 
_


----------



## GaDawg

Lori, "They remained suspended throughout the liquid. Not on top and not on bottom. Strange. This caused a problem when racking. I kept getting raisins stuck in my auto syphon causing it to draw lots of air, I added a piece of cheesecloth to pre-filter it."
*******************************
I have used Knee Highs from the dollar store to fit over my auto syphon to pre filter. Three pair for a $1.50 so $.25 per filter. Just sanitize and use


----------



## joeswine

*raisins*

* YES* in a bottle there a little more work, there efforts are worth their trouble............wine making sometimes takes work?


----------



## LoneStarLori

joeswine said:


> * YES* in a bottle there a little more work, there efforts are worth their trouble............wine making sometimes takes work?



Although I had some trouble, I would do it again (and have). This is a hobby. which for me means a great way to occupy myself. Even if that means scratching my head to come up to a solution of renegade raisins.


----------



## LoneStarLori

*recap on the tweaked SANGIOVESE*

*It's been six weeks since I started the WE Sangiovese kit and bottling time is near. Before I post the bottling I thought I would bump a recap on what has transpired to date.*


I started a World Vineyard Sangiovese kit and wanted to follow Joeswine raisin tweak again. When I'm done, I will send him a bottle so he can compare to his. I started the kit on Sept 13. here are a few pictures of the process of staring the kit. I did not top it all the way to 6 gals with water, I stopped at 5 1/2 gallons. I use only spring water in my kits because I have read the minerals help the yeast with fermentation. 

(9-14-13): Added the bentonite, grape juice, 2 packages of oak. Stirred well and covered the fermenter with a cotton cloth. Starting SG 1.104 with temp correction. Yikes!
(9-19-13): SG .102, Added raisins and 3 TBL of wine tannin. Now for some reason, i decided to do this without racking. Thinking I could finish it up in the bucket. Then age in the carboy. (turned out to be a mistake)
(9-24-13: SG .994 Had to leave town for a few days so I snapped the lid and an airlock on the primary.
(9-27-13): SG .994 Since the SG is holding I decided to rack to a carboy. While tasting during the rack, I wasn't getting the fullness of the raisins that I had in the Mezza Luna White. So I decided it was time to message Joe and he reminded me that this is not a 4 week kit. The raisins needed more time to work. So, I added a fresh batch of raisins. I did not add anymore tannin. It's still in there doing it's thing. But I did add a handful of Hungarian oak cubes. 
(10-3-13) The raisins are very, very slowly rising to the top. Even thought the SG is holding steady, I am not going to start the clearing process until I am sure the raisins have given there all. As Joe put it, "ALL WILL BE GOOD IN THE END,IF IT'S NOT GOOD RIGHT NOW THAT MEANS IT'S NOT THE END YET!"[/QUOTE]


----------



## RCGoodin

Lori,

A couple questions.

In your thread you stated:

(9-19-13): SG .102, Added raisins and 3 TBL of wine tannin. Now for some reason, i decided to do this without racking. Thinking I could finish it up in the bucket. Then age in the carboy. (turned out to be a mistake)

I see you stated you added 3 tbl of wine tannins, and your picture you stated 4 tbl. Please comment. Also you said it was a mistake. How come?

I followed Joe with the Amarone. We added the raisins in primary and let them work during that process. I don't think we added the tannins until after degassing and we only added 1 tbl. All kits could be a little different.

Thank you for your posts. I really appreciate your sharing. I know it takes a lot of time.

I have to start 4 kits of whites. I'm assuming I can add white raisins and tannins to them. What are your thoughts?


----------



## LoneStarLori

RC, I didn't realize I had contradicted myself. AGAIN. lol
I went back and checked my notes and it was 4 Tbl's of Tannin. Not 3.

As for the mistake, that is questionable in hindsight. It may have been a blessing. When I originally started this kit, I was following Joes thread on his Sangiovese. On that thread he put the raisins in the secondary. Which is what I did with my Mezza Luna White and it turned out great. Then somewhere in this process I started following his Amarone thread which he added the raisins to the open primary. So I thought he had found a better way to do it. 
Where I _thought_ I had made a mistake was when I transferred from the primary and realized I wasn't in love with the wine. I thought maybe it was because the raisins were getting too much air and so that is where I thought I messed up. So I decided to add about 12 oz. raisins again while in the secondary. Those are the ones that never really floated to the top. 
Now it's kind of hard to say where this wine would be if I had just put the raisins in the secondary like I did the Mezza Luna White. Or whether it would have gotten better on it's own without adding the second batch of raisins. However, this final product is just divine to me. I can honestly say it is ready to drink and is easily as good as any bottle I would have spent $20 on. (thats about the top of my budget) My gut feeling is that it would have been fine without the second dose of raisins.

As far as your white kits go. I don't see any reason not to add white/golden raisins. It worked very well for me. If you want something with less body like a Pino Gris, I don't know if I would add a full pound. On my next white kit, I will probably back off a bit on the tannin. Maybe 1 TBL at most. In my opinion, it does tend to deepen the color of the white and make it almost too yellow. That may also have been the grape variety. 

What kits are you going to do? I am in the market for another an am having a hard time deciding. I think I want a lighter body this time with citrus on the front end.


----------



## RCGoodin

LoneStarLori said:


> RC, I didn't realize I had contradicted myself. AGAIN. lol
> I went back and checked my notes and it was 4 Tbl's of Tannin. Not 3.
> 
> As for the mistake, that is questionable in hindsight. It may have been a blessing. When I originally started this kit, I was following Joes thread on his Sangiovese. On that thread he put the raisins in the secondary. Which is what I did with my Mezza Luna White and it turned out great. Then somewhere in this process I started following his Amarone thread which he added the raisins to the open primary. So I thought he had found a better way to do it.
> Where I _thought_ I had made a mistake was when I transferred from the primary and realized I wasn't in love with the wine. I thought maybe it was because the raisins were getting too much air and so that is where I thought I messed up. So I decided to add about 12 oz. raisins again while in the secondary. Those are the ones that never really floated to the top.
> Now it's kind of hard to say where this wine would be if I had just put the raisins in the secondary like I did the Mezza Luna White. Or whether it would have gotten better on it's own without adding the second batch of raisins. However, this final product is just divine to me. I can honestly say it is ready to drink and is easily as good as any bottle I would have spent $20 on. (thats about the top of my budget) My gut feeling is that it would have been fine without the second dose of raisins.
> 
> As far as your white kits go. I don't see any reason not to add white/golden raisins. It worked very well for me. If you want something with less body like a Pino Gris, I don't know if I would add a full pound. On my next white kit, I will probably back off a bit on the tannin. Maybe 1 TBL at most. In my opinion, it does tend to deepen the color of the white and make it almost too yellow. That may also have been the grape variety.
> 
> What kits are you going to do? I am in the market for another an am having a hard time deciding. I think I want a lighter body this time with citrus on the front end.


 
I do the cheap route once in awhile, so my 4 kits are from Amazon. They are the 6 gallon kits for around $75. I have 2 California Chardonnays, 1 Gawurztraminier, and 1 Semillion Chardonnay. I thought the raisins, from Joe's suggestions, would work would enhance them. He did say to not use as much. I'm also going to research different tannins. There may be a better one for whites. I did read somewhere that referenced liquid tannins.

As far as more citrus on the front end, I saw where Joe mentioned adding the zest from 2 oranges, 2 grapefruits and 2 lemons. It was for a summer breeze drink, but may work for your next adventure, more thinking outside the box.

The Amarone turned out great. It will not make it through the holidays. That kit also had a Chapitalation process, which was nothing more than adding simple syrup. I thought it would make it more sweet, but it did not. I was also a little confused about the oak tannins. We added 3 packages of powder in primary. That was a lot.

I feel I learned a lot and look forward to more out of the box techniques. I'm glad we have Joe.

Thanks for your response.


----------



## LoneStarLori

RCGoodin said:


> I do the cheap route once in awhile, so my 4 kits are from Amazon. They are the 6 gallon kits for around $75. I have 2 California Chardonnays, 1 Gawurztraminier, and 1 Semillion Chardonnay. I thought the raisins, from Joe's suggestions, would work would enhance them. He did say to not use as much. I'm also going to research different tannins. There may be a better one for whites. I did read somewhere that referenced liquid tannins.
> 
> As far as more citrus on the front end, I saw where Joe mentioned adding the zest from 2 oranges, 2 grapefruits and 2 lemons. It was for a summer breeze drink, but may work for your next adventure, more thinking outside the box.
> 
> The Amarone turned out great. It will not make it through the holidays. That kit also had a Chapitalation process, which was nothing more than adding simple syrup. I thought it would make it more sweet, but it did not. I was also a little confused about the oak tannins. We added 3 packages of powder in primary. That was a lot.
> 
> I feel I learned a lot and look forward to more out of the box techniques. I'm glad we have Joe.
> 
> Thanks for your response.



I'm glad we have Joe too. lol. Just think of all the years we have saved by reading and following his lead.

I am certainly not opposed to cheap kits. If we can kick them up a notch using Joe's tricks, why not?


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Sangiovese wrap up.*

This weekend was the final journey on my Wine Expert World Vineyard Sangiovese project. Bottling time.
This kit was started on Sept 14, 2013 . The idea was to make a tweak following Joeswine’s method of adding extra tannin and raisins to the secondary to see if we could bump up the body a bit. In the end, I was very surprised at what a wonderful wine I created in a short period of time. Here is a recap on the process.

(9-14-13): Added the bentonite, grape juice, 2 packages of oak. Stirred well and covered the fermenter with a cotton cloth. Starting SG 1.104 with temp correction. Yikes!








(9-19-13): SG 1.020, Added raisins and 4 TBL of wine tannin. 






(9-24-13: SG .994 I had to leave town for a few days so I snapped the lid and an airlock on the primary.

(9-27-13): SG .994 Since the SG is holding I decided to rack to a carboy. While tasting during the rack, I wasn't getting the fullness of the raisins that I had in the Mezza Luna White. So I decided it was time to message Joe and he reminded me that this is not a 4 week kit. The raisins needed more time to work. Since I had already dumped the raisins, I added a fresh batch of raisins to the secondary. I did not add any more tannin but did add a handful of Hungarian oak cubes. 






(10-3-13) The raisins are very, very slowly rising to the top of the carboy. Even thought the SG is holding steady, I am not going to start the clearing process until I am sure the raisins have given there all. As Joe put it, *"ALL WILL BE GOOD IN THE END,IF IT'S NOT GOOD RIGHT NOW THAT MEANS IT'S NOT THE END YET!"*







(10-14-13) I am seeing no more action from the raisins. They are kind of floating at different levels in the carboy. Not at the top like they did in the primary. The taste is really coming along. I don’t detect and young tang. It is really surprisingly smooth. However, I have noticed the SG came up from .994 to 1.002. I guess the second addition of raisins did add something, And it is for the better.

Now it’s time to clear the wine. Because the raisins were not on top and not on bottom, they caused a bit of a syphoning problem. The raisins kept getting caught in the syphon end. No big problem, just need a little cheesecloth and patience. After cleaning the carboy I racked back into it and started adding the stabilizing and clearing agents that were supplied with the kit. The Chitosan worked very quickly.











(11-2-13) The wine has been clearing for a little over two weeks. It’s time to bottle. I was out of carboys and wanted to rack one more time before bottling so I put it in a clean primary then back into the carboy after I washed it. it took a little extra time but it's good to mix the wine a little before bottling. And.... it gives me a chance to try my new All in One pump. Going from floor to counter? Priceless 






If you're going to get in my way, you gotta help:






Capping:





In conclusion; I have stolen a few tastes of the wine over the last two weeks and am very pleased with the end result. Especially at such a young age. I can easily drink this now and fully intend to do so. 
It is surprisingly smooth and very fruit forward. I can taste Cherry and maybe some plum. There is no ‘raisin’ taste. Just a well balanced mix of dark fruits with a bit of spice on the finish. This is a wine I will to go to often for pasta dishes and steaks. I can tell right now I will need to start another batch in the next month. I don’t recall ever having a Sangiovese but if this is what I have been missing, I have to broaden my horizons. 






*Thank you to Joe and Kate (Joeswine) for educating me and holding my hand through another successful adventure of “Thinking outside the box”.*


----------



## GaDawg

Using a hand corker is much easier if you put the bottle on the floor


----------



## LoneStarLori

GaDawg said:


> Using a hand corker is much easier if you put the bottle on the floor



I have never made life easier for him. Why shake things up now? lol


----------



## RCGoodin

LoneStarLori said:


> I have never made life easier for him. Why shake things up now? lol


 

Santa needs to get him a floor corker.....you'll never go back. It's as necessary as the All In One pump....


----------



## joeswine

Almond Wine Finished Bottle


----------



## geek

how does it taste joe being young?


----------



## LoneStarLori

It's lovely. I was lucky enough to get a sample.

It's just sweet enough, but not too much. The almond aroma hits you first, then it has a buttery mouthfeel and finishes with a bit of citrus. I think Joe got it just right.


----------



## geek

I've been thinking about an almond wine...
What page should I start reading? There are 28 pages in this thread...
I need a summary...


----------



## LoneStarLori

I read the first 15 or so and never saw a recipe. I think he's keeping it a secret. lol


----------



## geek

I will start reading, did you start with any white kit and then added the almond extract? Which one?


----------



## joeswine

*Almond wine*

I WILL LET YOU KNOW AFTER THE NEXT CONTEST AT *CELLARMASTERS* TO SEE HOW IT FARES.............​


----------



## LoneStarLori

Here's a recap on the Sangiovese. 
I shared a bottle with my wine snob daughter last week and got great compliments. That made me a very happy winemaker. Now I have to get another red to try and duplicate my success with these tweaks. 

This kit was started on Sept 14, 2013 . The idea was to make a tweak following Joeswine’s method of adding extra tannin and raisins to the secondary to see if we could bump up the body a bit. In the end, I was very surprised at what a wonderful wine I created in a short period of time. Here is a recap on the process.


----------



## RCGoodin

Lori,

When I did the Amarone kit with Joe, I only added 1 Tbsp of tannins and only 1 lb of raisins in the secondary. I like your recipe a little better. I will incorporate more tannins, at different stages, in the future and the same with raisins.

Thanks for the recap.


----------



## joeswine

*different ????????????????*

THE recipe she followed was from my SANGIOVESE kit, way different then the AMARONE, so their fore the differences in displacements and timing of ingredients ,don't be confused how did yours turn out?

GIVE us a description of your wine?


----------



## LoneStarLori

Here we are just a little over two months after bottling and my Mezza Luna White is almost gone. I only have 3 bottles left and had to hide those from my family. This WE kit was my first one and I used one of JoesWine tweaked by adding tannin and raisins. I also added a few Plumeria flowers just for kicks. It turned out so well, I am now scrambling to decide what white to do next. The oak is medium and it is very fruit forward. Initially it was a little heavy in body but that has smoothed out to perfection. 
Here's a brief recap on the process. I would do it again in a heartbeat.


----------



## joeswine

*Lonestar Lori's Wines*

Hello,
We wanted to post our reviews of Lori's two wines that we were so lucky to receive the other day. 

First wine: Her Moscato
Fresh, crisp, fruity (almost like a green apple taste). Very pleasant to drink. 

Second Wine: Italian Sangiovese
This was pretty much identical to our Italian Sangiovese. If everyone remembers, she started her kit after we started our tutorial on this wine kit and she followed the tutorial. Her's turned out pretty close. Only difference it the backend you could taste that it was still a young wine. Overall, it was very nice! It was interesting to try this wine to compare to ours since we are over 2000 miles apart. 

Kudos to you, Lori! Thank you again for sending them to us to enjoy!

Kind Regards and Happy Holidays,

Joe and Katie
(Joeswine and Neviawen)


----------



## LoneStarLori

Thanks for the nice comments. I am having a hard time with the Moscato. I thought if I made a sweet wine myself, maybe I could drink it. Not so much. I am just not a sweet wine drinker. I have some sister-in-laws that will enjoy it.
The Sangiovese was a BIG hit at our holiday family gatherings. Once again, I had to hide some bottles so I can let her age.


----------



## kryptonitewine

Lori. Did you add extra tanin to the mezza luna like joes Sangiovese???


----------



## kryptonitewine

Wondering how joes zest technique would work on it? I will be getting this kit soon.


----------



## LoneStarLori

kryptonitewine said:


> Lori. Did you add extra tanin to the mezza luna like joes Sangiovese???



According to my notes I added 1 TBL of tannin when I added the raisins. 
You're going to like this kit. Me and my family have really enjoyed it. I'm considering ordering another. I think it might benefit from some zest. I'm thinking grapefruit. Maybe Joe can weigh in on this one, He tried the finished product.


----------



## joeswine

*Adding flavors*

ADDING ZEST TO A WHITE IS VERY EASY AND CAN BE QUITE UPLIFTING TO THE OVERALL BACKGROUND AND BRIGHTNESS ON THE WINE,USUALLY THE ZEST OF 2 GRAPEFRUITS TO A 6 GALLON MIX IS ENOUGH TO GIVE IT A GOOD BALANCE BETWEEN ACIDITY AND SWEETNESS OR DRYNESS DEPENDING ON THE STYLE OF YOUR WINE AND HOW YOU WANT IT TO FINISH OUT.OK?


----------



## kryptonitewine

Thanks joe. Been wanting to zest. I have a cab/merlot sitting on raisins and tannins. 

Thinking outside of the box! 

Might try the Sangiovese next. I've never had a Sangiovese so I really don't know how they taste.


----------



## GaDawg

LoneStarLori said:


> I think it might benefit from some zest. I'm thinking grapefruit. Maybe Joe can weigh in on this one, He tried the finished product.



What about some orange or tangerine zest or why not mix the two ?


----------



## joeswine

*Zesting in the beginning*

ZESTING GETTING STARTED..

Extracts​ All recipes are measured out with one quart Ball Jar.​*Citrus Extract*: Consists of The zest of 2 limes, the zest of 2 lemons, and the zest of 2 grapefruits, and the remainder is ever Kleer. 
*Coffee Extract*: fill Ball jar up with roasted coffee beans (your choice), fill the balance of the Ball jar with Ever Kleer. 
*Cinnemon Extract*- ~approx. 12 sticks per Ball jar, top up with Ever Kleer
*Lemon extract*- The Zest of 12 lemons per jar, top up with Ever Kleer
*Orange extract*: The zest of approx.. 8 oranges per jar. Valenzia oranges work best but any type will do. 
*Key Lime Extract*: 1 bag of key limes with the limes cut in half. 
*Vanilla Extract*: 6 Madagascar Vanilla Beans, sliced length wise. Put all 6 in a ball jar and top off with Ever Kleer. 
At the end of one full year its best to pour the extract through some sort of filter (I strain mine through a coffee filter) and add some additional zest of the same type back to it and top it off with Ever Kleer.
* Making Simple Syrup​*Basic mix consists of : 2 qt. ball jars of cane sugar to 1 qt. ball jar of water. 
*Process:
*Place measured out sugar into a metal pot. Add the water to the mix (It’s a 2 to 1 ratio-mix). Bring the mixture to a boil, constantly stirring from the beginning of the process to the end until the liquid is clear. Have the ball jars already sanitized and ready for filling. Bring the simple syrup TO the jar and and funnel it into them (make sure your funnel is clean, too!) to fill them up. It will be hot so be very careful. Place the lids and metal rings onto the jars to seal them.
*Note*_: we put the very hot liquid into the jars while it is hot so as it cools it creates a vacuum seal to keep the mixture good. Done this way, your simple syrup will have a very long shelf life. 
_ Zesting Made Simple​Zesting is the process of the removal of the color of most citrus fruits and other entities that are oil extracted (for their essence). We use a micro plane zester to accomplish our end. See pictures. (If you do not have a micro plane zester you can use a fine cheese grater (Your goal is to get the color off the fruit, not the pitch, which is the "white stuff" underneath the very top layer of the fruit.)


----------



## LoneStarLori

GaDawg said:


> What about some orange or tangerine zest or why not mix the two ?



Mmm.. I Dunno. I guess the finished product kind of had grapefruit hints. Maybe tangerine, but I'm not so sure about orange. Thats a pretty strong one.


----------



## joeswine

*Understanding the power*

ONE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND AND HAVE WORKED WITH THE POWER OF ZEST,LIKE A GOOD BAKER IT'S ALL ABOUT CHEMICAL BALANCE ,WITH US IT'S *ACIDITY ,ACHOLO AND FLAVOR* ,THE THREE NEED TO BE COMPATIBLY AND COMPLIMENTARY ,THAT'S NOT TO SAY YOU CAN'T EXPERIMENT WITH A FINISHED,, 6 GALLON BATCH ,WITH DIFFERENT ZEST EXTRACTS:EX. ORANGE CAN BE VERY POWERFUL AND DEMANDING,LEMON CARRIES WITH IT ACIDITY TO COMPLIMENT,GIVES BRIGHTNESS OR CAN BE VERY HARSH TO WHITES,GRAPEFRUIT ON THE OTHER HAND HAS THE ACIDITY OF THE LEMON BUT NOT AS MUCH BITE AND TENDS NOT TO BE THE HEAVY IN A MIX, VERY GOOD FOR WHITES ,*JUST FITS IN*.

*TANGERINES* AND *ORANGES* ARE A STAND ALONE AND CAN BE THE BOSS OR THE UNDER BOSS DEPENDING ON THEIR APPLICATION KNOWING WHEN AND HOW MUCH IS ALL A MATTER OF TRIAL AND ERROR.HAVING FUN WITH OUR HOBBY IS WHAT SHOULD TAKE PRECEDENCE ,JUST MY OPPION...................... MOST GOOD SANGRIAS ARE RED AND ORANGE BASE BUT THE LAST TIME I WAS IN ARIZONA AT MY COUSINS SHE MADE A WHITE SANGRIA THAT KNOCK MY SOAKS OFF,,,,SEE WHAT I MEAN,MAKE IT YOUR OWN ,BE CREATIVE,"*THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX*"


----------



## RCGoodin

I love Joe's knowledge passing and "Thinking Outside the Box."


----------



## LoneStarLori

*New Kit! Spangnols RQ Shiraz Viognier*

2014. New year, new wine kits to experiment with. Yay!
This is my photo essay of the RQ-Australia Shiraz Viognier. My first ever LE kit.
I was intrigued by the combination of both a red and white varietal. Especially with Viognier. 
The description from the manufacturer is *“Australia Shiraz Viognier - RQ *_
This wine begins with aromas of cherry, blackberry, and violets as well as hints of pepper, vanilla, and chocolate that integrate through the palate.” _ Did someone say chocolate? I’m in. Here is where we are so far. 







Starting the kit. Jan. 9, 2014

*The contents. Beside the usual chems, there is a bag of dried grape skins and TWO different bags of oak chips. Unfortunately, they didn't label what type.*






*Adding the bentonite and juice:
*





*Top up with water to 6 gal and meausre SG:
*





*Time for the oak chips:
*





*The bag of dried grape skins which also contained some seeds and a few small stems. (must be the real thing). These needed to be rehydrated first using the provided bag and adding about 3 cups of hot water for 10 mins. :*






*After letting the dried grape skins get juicy once again, they were added to the primary and stirred well. Once the must temp came down to 73ºF, the yeast was sprinkled on top. NO STIRRING after adding yeast:
*





*Last, we cover the primary with a clean cotton dishtowel, (I like the floursack towels from Target). Leave it undisturbed and wait at least 24 for the ferment to start. This batch started fermenting in about 18 hours at 74ºF:*






Now the waiting and wonderful smells begin. I will measure the SG daily to be sure everything is on track.


----------



## sour_grapes

Very nice photo spread and kit, LSL!



LoneStarLori said:


> I was intrigued by the combination of both a red and white varietal. Especially North American, Viognier.



FYI, Syrah + Viognier is a traditional blend in the northern Rhone region.


----------



## LoneStarLori

sour_grapes said:


> Very nice photo spread and kit, LSL!
> 
> 
> 
> FYI, Syrah + Viognier is a traditional blend in the northern Rhone region.



Well there you have it. I'm showing my newbie-ness again. lol.


----------



## geek

I wish I had a wife like Lori... as she is so into the wine making.....nice...

The color looks dark, plus I looked at finewines and didn't see this varietal listed....hmmm


----------



## sour_grapes

LoneStarLori said:


> Well there you have it. I'm showing my newbie-ness again. lol.



Well, I wouldn't go that far. In any event, if you are a newbie (like me), you are a newbie in possession of a RQ kit (unlike me)!! 

Hey, do they tell you anywhere in the literature with the kit what the Shiraz vs. Viognier percentages are? I did not see this online anywhere. In the Rhone region, they generally use ~15% of the white grape.


----------



## LoneStarLori

sour_grapes said:


> Hey, do they tell you anywhere in the literature with the kit what the Shiraz vs. Viognier percentages are? I did not see this online anywhere. In the Rhone region, they generally use ~15% of the white grape.



No, they don't list it anywhere in the instructions or on the box. Given it is really dark purple, I'm sure it's not more than 15%. If that at all.


----------



## kryptonitewine

Nice job Lori!

Might I suggest that you post this again but in a new post in the Newbie forum. I think it would be a lot of help to beginning wine makers.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Woo hoo! new thread name! Way to go Joe, i LIKE it.


----------



## sour_grapes

You can change the title of the thread????? Who knew!?!?!


----------



## LoneStarLori

sour_grapes said:


> You can change the title of the thread????? Who knew!?!?!



The thread had evolved into something more than just Almond wine. It's not something we can do ourselves. I think there was a fair amount of jumping through hoops and bribery involved on Joe's part


----------



## RCGoodin

Lori, Great post. You are going to become the next Joe...

Are you going to tweak this? Maybe 3/4 lbs of red grapes and 1/4 lb of white? Then add some tannins and additional oak in secondary.

Just trying to think out of the box.


----------



## LoneStarLori

RCGoodin said:


> Lori, Great post. You are going to become the next Joe...
> 
> Are you going to tweak this? Maybe 3/4 lbs of red grapes and 1/4 lb of white? Then add some tannins and additional oak in secondary.
> 
> Just trying to think out of the box.



Um, no.. I'll never be a Joe. I don't think I will live long enough to gain the experience he has. 

I wasn't going to tweak this at first other than maybe tannin, but now that it's in secondary and I'm not in love, I will.
Joe in his knowledge of varietals suggests a few fresh, over ripe plums since the Shiraz has plum characteristics. He hasn't steered me wrong yet so I'm going for that. I am also going to get some finishing tannins and try those instead of just the generic tannin I have been using. 
I'll keep y'all posted on how this plays out.


----------



## LoneStarLori

*On to phase 2 of the RQ-Australia Shiraz Viognier*

It's now been 10 days since the wine was started. The must has leveled out at .997. I stirred the must daily recording the SG every couple of days to see where it was. Here are the stats:
1-9-14 starting SG 1.10
1-11-14 SG 1.084
1-13-14 SG 1.029
1-14-14 SG 1.01
1-17-14 SG 1.00
1-18-14 SG .998
1-19-14 SG .997
1-19-14 SG .997

Now that it has remained the same for a few days, it's time to rack to secondary. 

Since the kit had 2 bags of oak chips, I knew it might be a problem with getting the particles caught in the racking tube. So after taking out the bag of dried skins, I cut off a portion off of the bag and tied it on the bottom of the racking tube to prevent any chips from entering the tube an clogging it. 







Next I hooked up my All-in-One wine pump to rack with. This can also be done with any syphon hose. 





When I reached the bottom of the primary there was only about 1/2 of lees but plenty of oak. Note how well the mesh bag remnants filters out the oak. The syphon didn't stop once. Yay! 






I did not add any of the chems at this time because I don't feel it's quite done. (maybe I just don't want it to be) I also was not 100% sure I was in love with the flavor. It seemed to be lacking body and was pretty dry. This may improve with age, but then again...it may not. 
I let it sit a few days and the SG stayed the same at .997. After thinking a while on the taste and mouth feel, I decided it might be time to do a tweak to try and see of I could bring the body up a bit and maybe the sweetness. I have to admit, I was a little reluctant to mess with a limited edition kit, but in the end, I will be drinking this wine so if I can improve it to MY taste, I will give it my best.
I chose to use cherries to play off the characteristics of the Shiraz. Plums would have worked well but they are not in season and I wanted something fresh. I bought a pound of sweet dark cherries. I only bought 1 pound because although I am trying to improve the dryness and body, I am not trying to completely change the wines profile. I pitted then froze them overnight to help break them down before I added them to the carboy. I had to make a funnel out of a Solo cup since they were too big to use my normal one. Crude but it worked.











Prior to adding the cherries, I checked the SG once again to see if there would be any changes after the cherries do their thing. It is still .997

I'll let this sit a few days and see how things are going. I have ordered some finishing tannins which I haven't used before. I'm hoping that will take care of the lack of mouthfeel. That will be added a little later. I'll keep you posted. For now, let the cherries do what they will.


----------



## geek

Nice Lori..and good work..!!


----------



## RCGoodin

Lori,

Great post. Please let me know the manufacturer of the tannins you are using. I know there are tannins for red wines and different tannins for white wines.

I think you need to add at least 6 more weeks of fermentation for the tannins to release all they give.

Sorry, I didn't mean to compare you to Joe, or take anything away from Joe. I'm admiring your ability to take what Joe has taught you and use it toward your new creations.

I'm also glad to see you using that All-In-One......are you filtering also?


----------



## LoneStarLori

RCGoodin said:


> Lori,
> 
> Great post. Please let me know the manufacturer of the tannins you are using. I know there are tannins for red wines and different tannins for white wines.
> 
> I think you need to add at least 6 more weeks of fermentation for the tannins to release all they give.
> 
> Sorry, I didn't mean to compare you to Joe, or take anything away from Joe. I'm admiring your ability to take what Joe has taught you and use it toward your new creations.
> 
> I'm also glad to see you using that All-In-One......are you filtering also?



I ordered Tannin Riche from Scott labs. I did some reading and that looked like it went well with reds. Or even whites. I'm hoping it will add some body because it's kind of flimsy right now. 
I love my AIO. I used it once to filter a white, some Dragon blood and some Muscadine I made last summer. I ran the Muscadine twice and it really did strip the color so I've been kind of hesitant to use it on my other reds. Do you have one and do you filter everything with it?

BTW, I don't mind being compared to Joe, that's a compliment. .


----------



## RCGoodin

LoneStarLori said:


> I ordered Tannin Riche from Scott labs. I did some reading and that looked like it went well with reds. Or even whites. I'm hoping it will add some body because it's kind of flimsy right now.
> I love my AIO. I used it once to filter a white, some Dragon blood and some Muscadine I made last summer. I ran the Muscadine twice and it really did strip the color so I've been kind of hesitant to use it on my other reds. Do you have one and do you filter everything with it?
> 
> BTW, I don't mind being compared to Joe, that's a compliment. .


 
Yes, I filter every batch, but just once. I use the Buon mini-jet filtering system, however when it wears out I will build the in-line system that works with the AIO.

I did purchase some tannins for white wine. I can't recall it's name right now. I don't think it was Tannin Riche. I'll let you know once I visit the lab again. I also bought a scale to measure the right amount. I think it's supposed to be 6 grams per 6 gallons. It was easier buying the scale versus trying to convert grams to teaspoons.

I'm pretty sure they suggest adding about 6 more weeks to the secondary fermentation.


----------



## joeswine

*Review the process*

*go back and review lori's process .................................*


----------



## kryptonitewine

Well I did it. I picked up the meza luna white and a Sangiovese. Need to stock up on tannin and raisins.


----------



## LoneStarLori

kryptonitewine said:


> Well I did it. I picked up the meza luna white and a Sangiovese. Need to stock up on tannin and raisins.



Good call! I think you will like them both. Keep us posted on the progress. I am probably going to buy another Sangiovese kit next month. I have very little left and I can't imagine another $80 kit working out as well as that tweak did.

I bought an Angel Blanco today and will be tweaking it similar to the Mezza Luna.


----------



## kryptonitewine

I'm gonna do the Sangiovese as you and Joe did.

The Mezza Luna will be the same with the additional zest of a grapefruit or two.


----------



## LoneStarLori

kryptonitewine said:


> I'm gonna do the Sangiovese as you and Joe did.
> 
> The Mezza Luna will be the same with the additional zest of a grapefruit or two.



That sounds really good. I think the Luna could benefit from the grapefruit. Please let me know what you think about the process. Not only do you get a better wine, you get to play with it more. lol


----------



## kryptonitewine

Will do. My wine making is on hold for awhile until my water situation gets fixed. But I'll post the process and results once I'm back in the game. 


Jim


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Update time on the Shiraz/Viognier.*

*On my last picture story, I decided I was not loving the way the wine was after the initial fermentation. The wine was very dry for my taste and was lacking body. I decided to tweak the kit by using some fresh fruit. In the past, I have added raisins but this kit came with dried grape skins and raisins didn't seem like a good choice. I only wanted to bump the flavor and body a little so I added a pound of fresh, dark sweet cherries. They have been sitting in the wine a little over a week.

First thing is check the SG. .997. Same as it has been so as far as I can tell, the cherries didn't wake up the yeasties. I think they have given up all they can. The wine is still, no signs of re-fermentation so I'm going to rack them out. I'm seeing a trend in my additions. Once they start floating, they should be ready to come out in about a week.*














*I covered the racking cane with a small piece of cheesecloth to keep the cherries at bay. Worked great, once again.*








*Look at the beautiful color!*








*Getting the cherries out of the carboy can be tricky. Be sure to hold onto the handle when shaking it upside down.*








*Since I'm done with the any big tweak and the wine is stabie, I'll start the clearing process using the additives provided in the kit. First will be the sulphite. I prefer to mix the packet with a little water to dissolve the crystals before it goes into the wine. When working with red wine, you can't tell if they didn't dissolve properly*.








*After mixing the Sulpite in, i add part 1 of the cleaning agents, Kiesosol. (Don't add part 2 yet)*








*Then stir it REALLY good to get everything mixed. *








*While waiting on the Kiesosol to do it's thing in the wine, it's a good time to do some clean up. I use original Oxyclean to clean the carboys after such a sludgefest. It has an active cleaning action that a standard dish soap doesn't have which helps release the grime. Although it is safe to use around food, be sure to rinse VERY well. After it's rinsed, I rinse it again with Star-san or kmeta.*







*
After about 30- 45 mins, I can add the second part of the fining agents, Chitosan. This should be mixed with a 1/4 cup of luke warm water. It is a pretty thick solution and this helps it dissolve more thoroughly in the wine. *








*Finally, I rack one more time into a 5 gal carboy and a 1500 ML bottle. Topped both with fresh airlocks. 
*






_*You might have noticed I did not use the included Sorbate to stabilize as the instructions say. This is a personal choice. I am trying to use as little chemicals in my wine as possible. I plan to bulk age this for at least 6 weeks so as long as I'm not back going to back sweeten and as long as the fermentation is complete and doesn't show any signs of re-starting, I don't see a need. Again, this is just a personal choice. *_*

At this time, I am really happy with what the cherries have added to the flavor. It gave the wine just a little bit of dark fruit which I think it needed and also some dimension. 
I can tell the oak is starting to come out and it is shaping up nicely. I will wait a couple of weeks for it to clear and after I rack it one more time, I will decide if I want to add any finishing tannins. As of right now, I don't think it needs it because the mouth feel is much better than it was before adding cherries. But it's a little early to tell. I'll let time do it's job for now.* 
*
To see the first two installments of this kit follow these links;

Part one: Starting the kit

Part two: 1st racking and adding cherries
*


----------



## LoneStarLori

kryptonitewine said:


> Will do. My wine making is on hold for awhile until my water situation gets fixed. But I'll post the process and results once I'm back in the game.
> 
> 
> Jim



Oh thats right, you have no water. YIKES!
I hope you thaw out soon, that is a real PITA to deal with.


----------



## joeswine

*Review*

 GO BACK AND REVIEW THE PROCESS IT'S SPOT ON THIS IS WHAT COMES FROM READING AND UNDERSTANDING ,ASKING QUESTIONS AND APPLYING THE WORK'..................GREAT JOB.......


----------



## LoneStarLori

Joe, I am working on a WE VInters reserve Angel Blanco. It's at .994 and I am racking to the secondary but not clearing yet. It came with dried Elder flowers which I used in the primary. I think they did a lovely job. I can taste some light citrus and the body so far is fine. 

I am thinking of adding some grapefruit zest but am unclear on how to do it. Looking at your post #292 and #294, you speak of zesting and extracts. Can the zest be added directly or does it need to be done as a simple syrup? The zest is very bitter on its own and even a little acidic. This kit comes with some sweetener packs though I haven't tastes them to see if they have a favor addition.
Can you clarify how the process of works?


----------



## joeswine

*Zesting*

I USED THE PICTURES THAT I HAVE AS TO SHOW YOU WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE WHEN ZESTED AND HOW IT SHOULD LOOK ONCE IT HAS SETTLED OUT AND GIVE UP IT'S ESSENCE TO THE WINE.

THIS IS ALL DONE AS A RAW PRODUCT ,NOTHING ELSE ADDED,ZEST AND NOTHING ELSE,UNDERSTAND?
I KNOW WHAT THE INSTRUCTIONS STATE BUT YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER OFF PLACING THEM IN THE SECONDARY,I HAVE DONE A CHARDENAY WITH DRIED ELDERBERRY FLOWERS IT WAS WONDERFUL,A TRUE TASTING DE -LITE,REMEMBER THIS ,YOU FIRST HAVE TO HAVE A BASE WINE ,ONCE THAT IS COMPLETED AND NOT YET STILL ,GOING INTO THE SECONDARY IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE PLACE TO PUT YOUR FLAVOR ADDITIVES,THAT,S WERE *THE BASE IS THE BASE AND THE ART WORK TAKES PLACE...UNDERSTAND?*

*HOW OLD IS THIS WINE?* IF YOU WANT TO FINISH THE WINE OUT FIRST ,TASTE IT STILL UNBOTTLED BUT CLEAR IF THEN YOU WANT TO ADD THE ZEST, YOU STILL CAN IT WILL JUST TAKE A LITTLE MORE WORK ON YOUR PART. BUT THE OUTCOME WILL BE WORTH WAITING FOR.....YOURS JP.............


----------



## LoneStarLori

This batch is still very new. I just started it a week ago. It was down to .994 today so I racked to secondary. It's not done yet because it's still bubbling away. 
I just wanted to be ready when and if I decided to add zest. I think I might on the next racking but I want it to settle down first so I can see where we are going with it. As of now, i's very good. Nice and citrusy.


----------



## joeswine

*Lori*

SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD PLAN ALWAYS TIME TO THINK THINGS OUT....................................................................


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Shiraz/Viognier update*

It's been 3 weeks now since I started clearing the wine so here's a quick recap on my Shiraz/Viognier LE kit. 
The kit was started 1-9-2014. I was excited to get my first LE kit and it came with dried grape skins. Bonus! 

Here are all the ingredients that came with the kit:













The kit also came with two bags of oak which made a nice mess at first racking. A little cheesecloth took care of keeping the oak splinters out of the racking cane.






While transferring to secondary I did not add any of the chems at this time because I didn't feel it's quite done. (maybe I just didn't want it to be) I also was not 100% sure I was in love with the flavor. It seemed to be lacking body and was pretty dry. This may improve with age, but then again...it may not. 

I let it sit a few days and the SG stayed the same at .997. After thinking a while on the taste and mouth feel, I decided it might be time to do a tweak to try and see of I could bring the body up a bit and maybe the sweetness. I have to admit, I was a little reluctant to mess with a limited edition kit, but in the end, I will be drinking this wine so if I can improve it to MY taste, I will give it my best.

I chose to use cherries to play off the characteristics of the Shiraz. Plums would have worked well but they are not in season and I wanted something fresh. I bought a pound of sweet dark cherries. I only bought 1 pound because although I am trying to improve the dryness and body, I am not trying to completely change the wines profile. I pitted then froze them overnight to help break them down before I added them to the carboy. 











This is when I took out the cherries and added clearing agents:











So here I am about 6 weeks after starting. It has been clearing for almost a month. Today I was going to rack for the last time before bottling. There is just a tiny bit of sediment but I like to get it as clear as possible before bottling so I always rack at least one more time before bottling.











Although it looks good, I did a taste test I have a small problem. For my taste, it is still a little dry. I can taste the oak and lots of dark fruit and it has nice body. (Score! The cherries worked). However, it is still not quite what I want. This is young, but I don't have hopes for it becoming sweeter with age so I need to decide whether to back sweeten or not. 

I am going to sorbate it now in case I decide to do this. I left out the sorbate intentionally earlier. If I don't HAVE to have it, I would rather leave it out. I don't have to decide if I'm going to back sweeten just yet, but if I choose to, the wine will be ready. This wine isn't going anywhere while I let it rest.






This is great example of how different one 5 gal carboy can be a different than the next. It fit in the other one without a smaller container needed. 






While I let it age a little more, I thought I should at least have it looking stylish if it's going to be hanging around the kitchen. Old t shirts are a great way to keep the light out while it snoozes.






As Joewines would say, "Stay tooned". This is going to be a great wine in the end.

*If you would like to see this from the beginning, here are the links to the earlier entries.*

*The beginning, part one*

*First racking, adding a tweak*

*Removing cherries and clearing*


----------



## vernsgal

Wow Lori, great post!


----------



## GaDawg

That last pic may have spoiled your wine


----------



## LoneStarLori

GaDawg said:


> That last pic may have spoiled your wine



Oh contrar. It's ensuring the wine develops a deep purple color, and the ability to win gold in a competition. 
Not to mention the fine art of partying and tailgating.


----------



## geek

great step-by-step pics and post, really good job.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Thanks ya'll. They take a little bit of time to put together, but I'm hoping the illustrations might help others that may not ever have done tweaking understand the process. I'm a visual learner and Im sure I'm not the only one.


----------



## joeswine

*SHIRAZ AND Viognier*

go back and read the process flow


----------



## DavidvBrady

Has anyone ever tried adding rosemary to their wine. It's quite a strong flavour but I think it would go nice if a correct amount was added. 

This may be a big no no, just wondering. I've just begun first very batch so won't be tailoring until I've had a few under my belt.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## LoneStarLori

DavidvBrady said:


> Has anyone ever tried adding rosemary to their wine. It's quite a strong flavour but I think it would go nice if a correct amount was added.
> 
> This may be a big no no, just wondering. I've just begun first very batch so won't be tailoring until I've had a few under my belt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



David, I have not personally done it. You are right in that it is a very strong flavor so I'm not sure I would care for it in a drinking wine. However, you have sparked my interest though. I may just add a sprig to a bottle of red to see how it works as a cooking wine. Use it in a pasta sauce. Mmmmmm!


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Riche treatment for the Shiraz Viognier*

I am at seven weeks on this Cru Select Shiraz Viognier wine making kit. According to the instructions I should be bottling by now. But, I am not loving it so here comes the tweak. (AKA Thinking outside the box.) It came with a dried grape skin pack that contained stems and seeds that needed to be rehydrated. Also 2 different packs of oak chips. Since it came with lots of goodies, I didn't add anything because I wanted to see how it would play out. Therefore, I have stuck to the instructions on this kit. Until now. 

Here's my plan. I'm going to use a finishing tannin called Tannin Riche. It is designed to be used after fermentation and prior to bottling. It is recommended to be aged at least 3 weeks prior to bottling. Next week is Fat Tuesday/Mardi Gras. Easter is always 6 weeks after Mardi Gras. If all goes well, I will bottle this on Easter weekend when all 3 of my daughters are here to help. They are big wine drinkers and are more than happy to have Mom keep them well supplied so I'm going to make them work for this batch. It will be fun to do this as a family and I think they will love it.

Manufacturers description:
*Tannin Riche is a cellaring and finishing tannin notable for enhancing complexity. Derived from 100% toasted French oak, Tannin Riche imparts hints of coconut and vanilla together with a perception of sweet*ness. It can contribute the final touch to your wine.* 
I think that is just what this wine needs. Especially the vanilla. I realize it's young, but the wine is very thin and I am having trouble picking up anything but grapes and maybe a little pepper. It is off dry, which is good, but not quite sweet enough for my taste. Sweetness may come through with more aging, but I want to give it a boost with the Tannin Riche.

First thing I did was rack it to a 6 gal carboy, for two reasons. 1; to get to off the remaining lees and 2; to have room to mix and stir well. I will wash the carboy and put it all back in the 5 gal when I am done.






Then I mixed 1 TBL of the Tannin Riche in 1/4 spring water. It smells and looks a little like coffee. Unlike a regular generic tannin, this one tastes smooth and rich(e). Yes, I tasted it. If I'm going to put this in my wine, I want to make sure it is not horrible.












Next step I added 1/4 tsp K-meta. This is an additional racking the instructions didn't call for and it will be aged a bit in the carboy so I want to be sure it's safe from micro cooties. 





After this, I put it all back where it came from in the 5 gal carboy. Fresh airlock and a nice dark shirt over the carboy to keep it sedated while it ages and the tannins do their magic. 

There are several other installments if you will of this this kit being made. You can see them here:

*New Kit! Spangnols RQ Shiraz Viognier

On to phase 2 of the RQ-Australia Shiraz Viognier

Update time on the Shiraz/Viognier

Shiraz/Viognier update 2-20-14*


----------



## Putterrr

I enjoy your threads Lori but might it be easier for others to find if your start a separate thread for each and put them in the Kit Winemaking section

Also these grape skin kits tend to drop sediment for a many months so bottling early may lead to settling in the bottle. Perhaps filtering will help

cheers


----------



## LoneStarLori

Putterrr said:


> I enjoy your threads Lori but might it be easier for others to find if your start a separate thread for each and put them in the Kit Winemaking section
> 
> Also these grape skin kits tend to drop sediment for a many months so bottling early may lead to settling in the bottle. Perhaps filtering will help
> 
> cheers



This thread was renamed to "thinking outside the box" by Joe specifically for tweaking kits. Hopefully it will set it apart from making a kit by the book.

 This thread has a new home under kit winemaking/thinking outside the box. (thanks Julie!)



Thanks for the heads up on the grape skins.I've never used them before.
My Shiraz/Viognier is still bulk aging. I see its dropping a tiny amount of sediment, but it's so dark I can't really tell if it's done dropping. I plan to bottle Easter weekend so maybe I'll rack it again today or tomorrow to check the sediment volume.


----------



## joeswine

*Amarone the big italian red*

AMARONE IS THE KING OF THE ITALIAN REDS DEEP BODY DENSE TEXTURE AND WOOD FINISH YET BALANCED OUT THE WAY ONLY THIS WINE CAN BE,LETS SEE HOW WE CAN TRY TO ACHIEVE THAT END...... NEXT THE MIX.


----------



## joeswine

*Amarone moving forward*

This mix is not for everyone but it works for me.....lets continue,part of the amarone base is made up of dried grapes (raisins ) in a trio-dimensional wine base or what is of quality in the valpolicella area of Italy,made and aged for at least 5 years under strick guidelines this wine comes out with a taste profile all it's own, amarone is the term used to describe (bitter wine)...............................
I PREFERRED TO USE SPRING WATER WHEN EVER I CAN JUST A S A PRECAUTION NOT TO HAVE ANY OFF TASTINGS ADDED INTROVERT LY,SUNMAID RAISINS AS ALWAYS IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH A LARGE AMOUNT OF WINE TANNINS,MINE CAN FROM LD CARLSON SO THERE SHOULD BE NO PROBLEMS THERE..............FOLLOW..............................IF YOU FOLLOW THIS THREAD YOU WILL SEE THAT IN THE END THIS WINE WILL HAVE A DEEP TEXTURE AND A ROBUST TASTE PROFILE...................................................................FOLLOW...............


----------



## joeswine

*Amarone phase 2*

TAKE NOTICE THE RAISINS WILL BE APPLIED INTO THE SECONDARY,MY THEORY IS THIS:I HAVE PRIMED AND ALMOST COMPLETED MY *BASE WINE*,THE NEXT STEP IS TO INFUSE THE RAISINS 
TO THE MIX THAT IS DONE IN THE *SECONDARY* ALONG WITH 2 TO 4 TABLESPOONS OF *WINE TANNINS*,I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT TO SOME BUT IT WILL REDUCE ITSELF IN THE AGING PROCESS.............FOLLOW............ 

LEARN TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. THINGS TO NOTICE (SEE THE HANGING TAGES ALL THE DATA IS THERE FOR RECALL)TO INSURE EHAT THE NEXT PF=HASE SHOULD BE.............................PLANNING AND CONTROL IT'S ALL YOURS NOT THE WINES......... NOW WE WAIT.......


----------



## LoneStarLori

Joe the Sangiovese is what got me hooked on tweaking. (I blame you, lol ) I followed your 'recipe' and LOVED it. Not only me, but my family and extended family as well. I started the kit last August and am down to only 5 bottles. 

So it has occurred to me, I need to make wine at a faster rate. But to be honest, I can't afford to spend $150 on kits for all these lush's in the family. So for me it makes sense to buy a lessor expensive kit and make it taste like a $150 kit. Much like I did with the Sangiovese.

My two newest tweak projects arrived today. I haven't made either so these are blank canvas for me. I am not sure what I'm going to do with the white, but I have been sitting on a bag of black currants for a few months just waiting for the right red kit. I think the Mezza Luna Red will be perfect. It's a blend with strong cherry and dark fruit flavors and is inexpensive for a "big red" type kit. The Zante Currants are stronger than grapes so it will be interesting to see what kind of 'layer' they add to the finished wine. 

I paid $140 for both of these kits including shipping. That's less than $3 a bottle and I hope I can make it taste like $10.


----------



## reefman

LoneStarLori said:


> Joe the Sangiovese is what got me hooked on tweaking. (I blame you, lol ) I followed your 'recipe' and LOVED it. Not only me, but my family and extended family as well. I started the kit last August and am down to only 5 bottles.


Lori,
What tweaks did you do to the Sangiovese?
I agree with you, I'll buy the cheap kits and try tweaking them to make improvements. $150 for a kit is out of my price range.

Sorry, just found your tweaks post. Thanks!!!!
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/thinking-outside-box-9155/index28.html#post466890


----------



## LoneStarLori

reefman said:


> Lori,
> What tweaks did you do to the Sangiovese?
> I agree with you, I'll buy the cheap kits and try tweaking them to make improvements. $150 for a kit is out of my price range.
> 
> Sorry, just found your tweaks post. Thanks!!!!
> http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/thinking-outside-box-9155/index28.html#post466890




Thanks for posting the link,. I bet you had to dig for that. 

Keep us updated on your tweaks. I like to see how different things work for others.


----------



## kryptonitewine

My Sangiovese is aging. Not touching it till it hits a year. 


Jim


----------



## LoneStarLori

kryptonitewine said:


> My Sangiovese is aging. Not touching it till it hits a year.
> 
> 
> Jim



Krypto, I admire your ability to resist. I wish I could do that. 

But... don't you even want a _hint_ of how it's coming along? It's killing me just knowing you have the same tweaks, just sleeping peacefully. 

I'm going to have to bug you about this.  MONTHLY


----------



## kryptonitewine

Lol. I have to admit I have tasted now and then but it will not be bottled until September and then get some well deserved rest.

It Is very promising!!!


Jim


----------



## wildvines

For some reason I can't get my self to do a kit straight 100% by the kit's instructions. With the help of Joeswine I tweaked all my kits so far.

I follow the 5-20-40-110 for my kits. I may extend the to 180 days or more with bulk aging.

WE Eclipse Pinot Noir

I started this kit as instructed with primary fermentation with yeast RC-212. On day 6 the SG was .996 I transferred to secondary. I added a pound of Blackberries which I got fresh - I squished and froze them. I thawed The blackberries and placed them into the carboy and transferred from primary. I then added some Ft Rouge Soft tannin into secondary. 15 days later I racked off , cleared, and degassed. I let it clear for 20 days. Sg was .992 PH 3.7. Then I racked off to bulk age. Currently aging. ( might add quarter spiral during bulk aging will see depends on taste)

Right now nose shows red/black berries, nice tail of flavors, 

WE Selection Cab/Merlot

I did almost the same thing with my Selection Cab/Merlot. as the Eclipse Pinot. The only thing different I did was place the blackberries in hops bag( was a pain to rack off when loose), and added FT Rouge tannin instead of Ft Rouge soft during secondary. Currently clearing. transferring to bulk on 3/17/2014. I Will add 1 French medium toast spiral during bulk aging. May add more if needed.


RJS WS Super Tuscan

For this Kit I switched the yeast from EC-1118 to BM 4x4. Currently this kit is in the primary on day5. Was going to transfer today but feel lazy so will transfer to secondary tomorrow. During primary I added the two jars or Merlot Skins into a hops bag, and added the untoasted oak( I think that's what it was) into a hops bag also and into the primary. I also added 1 tsp of FT Rouge to the primary. Started with an SG of 1.100. I added Go-ferm rehydrated with the BM 4x4 into primary. 6 hours after fermentation started I added the Fermaid. Every day I take an SG reading, squeeze the merlot skins bag and oak bag, punch down and stir. When the SG dropped 1/3 I added another dose of Fermaid. Currently the SG is 1.005. Like I said I will transfer to secondary tomorrow. My plan is to just add a half spiral of French medium toast into secondary. And plan on adding 1 spiral of French medium toast into the carboy during bulk aging.


These are my 3 current Kits that I tweaked. Up next is my WE LE Oregon Pinot Noir. So if anyone wants to throw ideas for this one please don't hesitate. 

I do something's during primary. I tend to start fermentation at74 degrees then let it get to 80 degrees and then control it back to 74 then 72. I know it's weird but I notice I been getting a great fruit forward smell with a great mouthfeel.


So far I like my results and excited to see the finished product. These methods are not for everyone but I love to experiment. I do take a gamble that how I am.


----------



## LoneStarLori

Wow! When you do your tweaks, you do it first class, don't you? Not to mention those are some pretty high dollar kits in the first place.
When I do a kit, I hope to get a $10 bottle of wine out of it. You're going to get at least a $20 bottle. LOL

Seriously, they sound like some really well-thought-out and good tweaks. 


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## ou8amaus

Lori, I noticed in your Sangiovese tweak link (great pics by the way) that you added raisins into the primary bucket after the SG dropped to near 1.0. I have done the same in the past but had racked it into a carboy for fear of prolonged oxygen exposure at such a low SG. Were you at any point concerned about leaving the jus in the primary for two weeks? Did the raisins in the primary increase the SG noticeable? (which might help create the CO2 protection).


----------



## wildvines

LoneStarLori said:


> Wow! When you do your tweaks, you do it first class, don't you? Not to mention those are some pretty high dollar kits in the first place.
> When I do a kit, I hope to get a $10 bottle of wine out of it. You're going to get at least a $20 bottle. LOL
> 
> Seriously, they sound like some really well-thought-out and good tweaks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone




Thanks Lori 

Lol. Ya. I am on several cult wineries from napa etc so my expectations are high. It's more my wife. I can drink anything but her palate is seriously tight. 




Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## kryptonitewine

ou8amaus said:


> Lori, I noticed in your Sangiovese tweak link (great pics by the way) that you added raisins into the primary bucket after the SG dropped to near 1.0. I have done the same in the past but had racked it into a carboy for fear of prolonged oxygen exposure at such a low SG. Were you at any point concerned about leaving the jus in the primary for two weeks? Did the raisins in the primary increase the SG noticeable? (which might help create the CO2 protection).



I think she added the raisins and tannin to the primary but later transferred to the secondary. There is a picture of the raisins in a carboy. I chose a different route and added the raisins and tannin to the secondary and racked on top of them, giving them a good stir half way to make certain the tannin was blended in.

Lori - please confirm.


----------



## joeswine

*Sangiovese process with raisins*

TWEAKING WINE KITS AND OR FRESH JUICE IS NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED,SO IF THAT'S YOU.. DO NOT DO THIS STEP,ARE YOU STILL THERE???OK THEN YOUR READY TO *THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX*,ADDING RAISINS IN THE SECONDARY WORKS FOR ME, WHAT IT BRINGS TO THE TABLE IS A EXTRACTION OR AND INFUSION IF YOU WILL OF THE DRIED FRUIT RE HYDRATING AND THE EXTRACTION OF ITS ESSENCES ,THIS ADDS TO THE SMOOTH MOUTHFEEL AND OVERALL TEXTURE OF THE FINISH WINE IF LEFT TO AGE.
PLACING THE RAISINS IN THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH WINE TANNINS (WHICH EVER YOU CHOSE)IS A MORE SIMPLIFIED WAY OF ADDING A TWIST TO WHAT WOULD BE A AVERAGE WINE ..............DO YOU SEE IN PICTURE ONE WHEN THE WINE IS DRAINED OFF WHAT YOU HAVE LEFT?THE FRUIT IS DONE ITS WORK WE CAN REAPPLY MORE TANNINS IN THE FUTURE IF WE DESIRE DEPENDING ON OUR TASTE REQUIREMENTS AND HOW THE WINE ITSELF IS DOING,LATTER WE WILL BOTTLE.................................................


----------



## LoneStarLori

ou8amaus said:


> Lori, I noticed in your Sangiovese tweak link (great pics by the way) that you added raisins into the primary bucket after the SG dropped to near 1.0. I have done the same in the past but had racked it into a carboy for fear of prolonged oxygen exposure at such a low SG. Were you at any point concerned about leaving the jus in the primary for two weeks? Did the raisins in the primary increase the SG noticeable? (which might help create the CO2 protection).




I had to go back and check my notes on this because even I was confused. This was only my second kit and CO2 was not in my vocabulary yet. 

This batch got a double raisin treatment. (My fault for not paying attention to Joe's instructions.)
Near 1.0 is a little too far into fermentation to add the raisins so after I added them, I put a plastic lid on the primary with an airlock. After letting them sit a few more days, I transferred to a carboy @.994 and gave them a fresh dose of raisins as Joe recommended when I asked for help. I was trying to correct what I had done by not adding them when racking to secondary. The wine turned out great.

As far as raising the SG, so far I have not had that happen.


----------



## kryptonitewine

It will increase the SG as the raisins have sugar. I have know idea by how much. I would think nominal amounts.


Jim


----------



## joeswine

*Adding to the mix*

IF ANYTHING IT WILL PICK UP THE ABV.BY LESS THEN .5 % IN VOLUME SOMETHING TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT BUT NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT OVER ALL,. THE BALANCE SHOULD BE THERE.


----------



## ou8amaus

LoneStarLori said:


> This batch got a double raisin treatment.



I like the idea of starting primary with a loose cover and then just snapping down lid with an airlock for another week with additives after SG nears 1... Apart from increased body, do you feel the wine has any residual raisin flavor due to the double dose?


----------



## LoneStarLori

ou8amaus said:


> .. Apart from increased body, do you feel the wine has any residual raisin flavor due to the double dose?



Good question. I have looked for a raisin 'note', but doesn't seem to have one that I or anyone else I have served noticed. Just a mouthful of smooth body. 

This kit is only about $70. Right after it I did a Shiraz ALL Juice bucket from MM, $120. with no tweaks and it doesn't have nearly the complexity. 

Raisin and other fruit tweaks may not be for everyone, and I know there are a lot of 'nay-sayers' out there, but it works for my tastebuds. Seems it works for all my family, extended family and friends too.


----------



## ou8amaus

LoneStarLori said:


> Raisin and other fruit tweaks may not be for everyone, and I know there are a lot of 'nay-sayers' out there, but it works for my tastebuds



Could no agree with you more! Joe gave me a great recommendation once to add fresh plums to an ultra cheap cab I was making. The resulting wine was punching well above its weight class. I am now contemplating adding plums along with a homemade merlot must pack to a Cellar Classic Rosso Grande I got on sale recently. Add to that some med-toast oak and 2-3 TBS of tannin as you demonstrated in your pictures... Really psyched to see what this will become in a year+.


----------



## joeswine

*Adding to the mix*

THIS ISN'T FOR EVERYONE BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE TASTING NOTES OF YOUR KIT OR JUICE SOMETHING,RIGHT?THEN LET THAT BE THE KEY AS TO WHERE YOU MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT STARTING WHEN *THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX*,KEEPING IT INTERESTING AND FUN IS REALLY PART OF THE OVERALL GOAL BUT IT'S A CHANCE FOR YOU TO PUT YOUR THUMB PRINT ON YOUR WINE ,THEN YOU CAN CALL IT TRULY YOURS............................................


----------



## joeswine

*Blackberry pino nior*

blackberry PINO noir is a wine that I've made before and like it so much that when the opportunity was thereto do it again i didn't have to think twice,the combination of the fruit forwardness of the PINO and the brilliant depth of the blackberry are a combination that is outstanding together and time in a bottle does Justice to this blend,see how KATE and KITO AND I started with the mid grade kit and took it over the top,follow the process and see how we created the *blackberry fpac* in it's simplest of forms all the way to the finish product.

blackberry PINO noir 
 IF YOU TAKE NOTICE WHETHER YOUR DOING A KIT OF FRESH JUICE IT'S JUST ABOUT THE SAME PROCESS ,PLAN YOUR PROCESS AND WORK YOUR PLAN...


----------



## joeswine

*Blackberry pino nior*

now were going into fermentation and were are going to add the *fpac of blackberries*,notice the* belly bands* on the fermenter,it's still cold in the basement so TO insure we get off to a robust start we added them we also changed the yeast what came with the kit was ec1118 we chose to use* red star PRIMER* do to the fact it's a good yeast for smooth and fruited wines..

SEE THE PICTURE WITH THE LID THAT WAS SO WE COULD TRAP THE JUICES IN STEAM FORM COMING OFF THE BERRIES ALONG WITH THE SPLASH OF CABERNET WE ADDED INTO THE BEGINNING TO START THE PROCESS,THEN INTO THEMESH BAG AND AWAY WE GO


----------



## geek

Joe, did you place those blackberries in secondary?


----------



## joeswine

*Adding the blackberries*

*NO NOT THIS TIME* I WANTED THE WINE AND THE FRUIT TO FERMENT TOGETHER,THIS IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT,IF I WHERE TO ADD THEM TO THE SECONDARY IT WOULD BE FOR AN INFUSION OF THE BLACKBERRIES TO THE WINE. THIS WAY IT'S THE BASE AND THE BERRIES MERGING TOGETHER AT ONE TIME TO FORM A COHESIVE PACKAGE TO EACH OTHER.DID I CONFUSE YOU??????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## LoneStarLori

It looks like fermentation was underway when you put them in. I think I see bubbles. 
What was the SG?


----------



## geek

No confusion...


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## kryptonitewine

I put blackberries in a cab/merlot blend. It's young (3 months) but taste really good. I also added 2 tbls tannin in the secondary 


Jim


----------



## wildvines

kryptonitewine said:


> I put blackberries in a cab/merlot blend. It's young (3 months) but taste really good. I also added 2 tbls tannin in the secondary
> 
> 
> Jim




I did same thing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## reefman

How many pounds of Blackberries did each of you use to tweak your batches?
Did you do Fpacs like Joe?
I'm Assuming they are 6 gallon batches?


----------



## wildvines

Just racked it to bulk age. Took a taste and the tannins and bite are really showing. Do hopefully after 8 months of aging it will all blend together nicely. It was the selection cab/merlot


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## wildvines

Just racked it to bulk age. Took a taste and the tannins and bite are really showing. Do hopefully after 8 months of aging it will all blend together nicely. It was the selection cab/merlot


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## joeswine

*Adding the blackberries*

the pic with the fermentation was taken afterward so yes fermentation was underway. I squeezed the berries and removed them.......when using berries especially black berries they will carry a acidity with them you don't want them to stay to long................


----------



## wildvines

i just used a pound of blackberries. I did it a bit different. I just bought fresh blackberries, put them into a freezer zip lock bag punched them down and got a lot of juices going. I then froze them for a day or so.. I then thawed them out and added it to a hops bag.. ( they work great).. I place mine into secondary with added tannins to let it all blend together. Like joe says it wont change the taste of the particular wine. for example a Pinot noir, IT will still taste like a pinot but with a more dimension. So I wouldn't worry about having the blackberries change the taste of a wine to a blackberry wine. I took Joes advise on this tweak. I am always open to testing things out that have been proven for most.


----------



## joeswine

*Blackberry pino nior*

you did actually what we disguised,that is just another way of doing it, there is more than one way to get from a to c..............secondary for one purpose and primary for a different out come, we can talk about this in the future but for now you are on the correct path , I asked you to follow, stay the course there's more to learn......................................


----------



## wildvines

joeswine said:


> you did actually what we disguised,that is just another way of doing it, there is more than one way to get from a to c..............secondary for one purpose and primary for a different out come, we can talk about this in the future but for now you are on the correct path , I asked you to follow, stay the course there's more to learn......................................




That is correct followed you advise/directions to the T. I used it for my Pinot and my cab/merlot. After my super Tuscan I will try it in the primary of my next Pinot noir.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## kryptonitewine

reefman said:


> How many pounds of Blackberries did each of you use to tweak your batches?
> Did you do Fpacs like Joe?
> I'm Assuming they are 6 gallon batches?




I used 3 pounds of frozen blackberries. Mashed the heck out of them and added go secondary for 20 days. 


Jim


----------



## joeswine

*Blackberry pino nior*

this is what it looked like after racking

 ONCE IN THE CRABOY I TOOK A SG READING IT WAS AT 1.01,STILL A LITTLE WORK TO DO, BUT BETTER TO MOVE IT THEN IT HELPS TO KEEP OXIDATIONS FROM FORMING,IT'S STILL ACTIVE ,GOT IT!......LET THE PROCESS WORK FOR YOU.


----------



## joeswine

*Party wines*

summer is coming and party wines are at the forefront of the game plan,check this out.:: THIS IS MY WIFES FAVORITE SO THERE'S ALWAYS THIS AROUND BUT HER HORSE RIDING LADIES ENJOY IT............ AFTER THE RIDE.............TRICKS ARE TO KEEP THE ABV AT 1.10 THEN WHEN THE FPAC IS ENTERED IT CREATES A MUCH BETTER BALANCE BETWEEN TASTE AND ACHOLO...............THIS IS THE ONLY TWEAK NEEDED..........


----------



## LoneStarLori

joeswine said:


> summer is coming and party wines are at the forefront of the game plan,check this out.:: THIS IS MY WIFES FAVORITE SO THERE'S ALWAYS THIS AROUND BUT HER HORSE RIDING LADIES ENJOY IT............ AFTER THE RIDE.............TRICKS ARE TO KEEP THE ABV AT 1.10 THEN WHEN THE FPAC IS ENTERED IT CREATES A MUCH BETTER BALANCE BETWEEN TASTE AND ACHOLO...............THIS IS THE ONLY TWEAK NEEDED..........



Joe, did that start at a 1.10? That seems high for a party wine.


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## LoneStarLori

*Mezza Luna Red with Zante currants PART 1*

I started a inexpensive World Vineyard, Vinters Reserve Mezza Luna Red kit a few weeks ago. I purchased the kit for about $70 with the intention of tweaking it. It is described as having dark fruits like cherries and I wanted one that would be relatively dry. I purchased some Zante currants about 2 months ago waiting for the right wine and this seemed like a good fit.

I have done JoesWine famous raisin and tannin tweak several times with great success. I enjoy the added body and complexity it adds. This time I wanted to up the ante a bit and use dried black currants. They are more expensive and I had to order them online, but I think they will bring a bigger taste change to the finished wine. Black currants are much smaller than raisins. Usually made from concord grapes. They are slightly more tart and quite a bit stronger in flavor than a standard raisin and taste a little like a cherry/raisin to me. 


*Day one, kit ingredients. It came with 2 bags of oak chips which surprised me. *










*My additions:*






*Since this was only a 10L kit, I decided 5.5 gals was enough water.*






*Starting SG; 1.108*






After adding oak,and yeast, I covered the container and waited for the sure sign that _'it's on'_, that wonderful smell of fermenting fruit. 











*Two days after pitching the yeast, the SG as at 1.072. Still not time to add currants. *







*April 7, five days after starting primary SG is at 1.01. Time to rack and add the Zante currants. *







*I'll be adding standard wine tannin and since I have a little tannin Riche left, about a TBL, I'll add that too. I love the flavor of Tannin Riche. Very silky.*






*Zante currants verses white raisins. See how much smaller they are?*







There has been several discussions here on raisin tweaking and the possibility of second fermentations so I wanted to pay close attention to the SG after adding the currants. Since I prefer to rack down, when the SG got down to 1.010, I racked to a 5 gal AND a quart milk bottle. Currants and tannins in the 5 gal carboy and none in the quart bottle. Not the most scientific test, but I did see a slight difference. 

*Adding currants (I used 12 oz.) and tannin to clean carboy:*


















*Carboy and quart after racking*






Here's where it gets interesting. Second fermentation? You decide. 

*Carboy sample day one after adding tannins and currants, SG is still dropping*






*Quart sample day one after racking. SG is dropping in the quart too, but faster.*







To be continued.


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Mezza Luna Red with Zante currants PART 2*

To continue the Mezza Luna Red tweak, I thought I'd post a few more pictures. As you can see in the post above, the SG is dropping faster in the sample without the added black currants. The SG did NOT go up, it is just lowering at a slower rate. 

*The airlock on the carboy with the currants was much, much faster than the quart sample. I imagine it might be possibly due to the smaller container, but I don't think that is the case.*











*Fast forward to 4-15-14. Both the carboy and the quart have stopped fermenting and each ended up at .994*






*As you can see by the currants floating at the top, they have done their job. They are much paler and more transparent.* 






*I cut up a nylon mesh fruit bag to cover the racking cane to help keep the berries out. It worked great. I have learned that using nylon verses cheesecloth, which is cotton, works much better. The cotton in cheesecloth will stretch and cause problems.*











*Time to add the fining agents. I will hold off on the sorbate until it clears. *






*Finally, keeping it fruity by topping off with a similar wine. I like the label on this one, you see exactly what you're getting. If my plan works as planned, my Mezza Luna red should have pretty much the same characteristics.*










And now we wait for the wine to clear. 

If anyone has any thoughts on the SG variances between the carboy and the quart, with and without currants, I'd welcome your comments. Or any comments. This is a forum, let's talk Wine Making.


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## sour_grapes

LoneStarLori said:


> *The airlock on the carboy with the currants was much, much faster than the quart sample. I imagine it might be possibly due to the smaller container, but I don't think that is the case.*



Absolutely the size of the carboy matters when it comes to how fast the bubbling is. Imagine two containers, one of which has 100 L, the other has one L. The must in them is identical otherwise, and the airlock is the same on the two of them. The 100 L volume will produce 100 times more gas per second than the 1 L jug,, _but this gas has to go out through the same-size hole_! It will take more bubbles per second for that to happen.


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## vernsgal

joeswine said:


> summer is coming and party wines are at the forefront of the game plan,check this out.:: THIS IS MY WIFES FAVORITE SO THERE'S ALWAYS THIS AROUND BUT HER HORSE RIDING LADIES ENJOY IT............ AFTER THE RIDE.............TRICKS ARE TO KEEP THE ABV AT 1.10 THEN WHEN THE FPAC IS ENTERED IT CREATES A MUCH BETTER BALANCE BETWEEN TASTE AND ACHOLO...............THIS IS THE ONLY TWEAK NEEDED..........


I actually picked 2 of these up a few weeks ago. So do I just add enough sugar to bring SG to 1.100 and all else is good?


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## LoneStarLori

sour_grapes said:


> Absolutely the size of the carboy matters when it comes to how fast the bubbling is.



Yes, that is what made sense to me too. More gas, more bubbles.


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## joeswine

*Surface area*

THINK OF IT AS A LARGE BOWL LOTS OF SURFACE SPACE ON THE TOP COMPARE TO A CUP WITH THE SAME PRODUCT INSIDE,ALSO THE CONTENTS IS DIFFERENT IN THE BOWL AS APPOSED TO THE SMALL BOTTLE CORRECT? SO THE OVERALL RESPONSE WOULD ALSO BE DIFFERENT....SEE...THAT'S WHY I DO EVERY THING IN THE BIG WHITE FOOD GRADE FERMENTER LOTS OF SURFACE FOR THE YEAST ,OXYGEN AND WINE MUST TO WORK TOGETHER.. NO TIGHT SPACESES...


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## LoneStarLori

This was really kind of an accidental experiment. After the white primary bucket, when I racked down to the 5 gal with the currants in it, I had about a quart left over. That's when I decided to do a little test to see how the SG would differ. 
Although I didn't test it every single day, the SG on the non-tweaked quart stayed 2 points lower than the carboy to the end.


----------



## joeswine

*Current affect???*

DO TO THE FACT THAT THERE WERE KNOW CURRENTS INVOLVED NO ADDED SUGARS,THE SG AND ABV WOULD BE DIFFERENT..


----------



## LoneStarLori

Yes joe, and with that being said, would there be any way to calculate the end ABV % of the currant tweaked wine? I imagine not.


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## ou8amaus

Nice pictures and commentary Lori!


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## LoneStarLori

*Mezza Luna Red pt 3*

I racked the Mezza Luna Red which I added black currants to from the initial less after clearing. 
I have to say, I am really liking is wine. It hits you with a blast of dark fruits (maybe plum) on the nose and some spices. Medium body and moderate oak. It is quite dry with a long fruity finish. I can tell it has the young 'tang', but I believe this will be a good drinker, rather early. Maybe it's too early to tell, but I think it's just about what I was going for in a nice red social wine. Without the $150 price tag. 
I am a little concerned about the ABV. Now, I freely admit I stink at math, but what I am getting is with a starting ABV of 1.108 and ending right now at .993 I am getting a 15.6 ABV. Is that correct? 



*Here's the current SG. .993* 







*Lees after the initial clearing and racking. *






Since the SG is still falling and I have no intention of back sweetening, I am not going to sorbate this. I am going to let nature do her thing and keep the chems to a minimum. I plan to bulk age for about 6 more weeks. I am not going to use any finishing tannins because I think it is perfect the way it is. 


This has been a fun tweak for me using zante currants for the first time. I have another bag in the freezer and am sure I will find another project for them. If this ages like I am hoping, I think I have found the perfect wine that tastes like a $150. kit and only costs $77 with tweaks. I may just do this one again.




This is part 3 of a series. If you would like to see the process of the first two parts, here are the links. 

*PART 1 **http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/thinking-outside-box-9155/index38.html#post506944*

*PART 2 **http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f84/thinking-outside-box-9155/index38.html#post507588*


----------



## sour_grapes

I get more like 15.1 ABV, but close 'nuff.


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## LoneStarLori

That juice was high out of the bag. I wonder of leaving out just that 1/2 gal of water made that much difference.


----------



## sour_grapes

By my reckoning, making your kit to 6 gallons instead of 5.5 gal would have resulted in a SG of 1.099. Still seems just a mite high for Mezza Luna. Mine was 1.083, but I added _too much_ water (because I did not yet know that my carboy was larger than 6 gallons). I think mine would have translated to a starting SG of 1.095 if I had done it correctly.


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## byathread

You're right on, Paul. My 6gal ML started at 1.095, after 24 hours with 12oz Zante currants and some squeezing I hit a high of 1.100. At bottling, siphoned 3gal off into a carboy with 4g Tannin FT Rouge and aged another month before bottling that batch as well.


----------



## LoneStarLori

byathread said:


> You're right on, Paul. My 6gal ML started at 1.095, after 24 hours with 12oz Zante currants and some squeezing I hit a high of 1.100. At bottling, siphoned 3gal off into a carboy with 4g Tannin FT Rouge and aged another month before bottling that batch as well.




How is it coming along? Do you think the added tannin in the 3 gal is much of a difference?


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## byathread

They are coming up on 6 months since pitching the yeast, but at last taste they weren't ready. It didn't help that the non-tannin batch (which was bottled a few weeks earlier) was not fully degassed (it was my very first batch). I'll probably do a side-by-side test after some decanting sometime in the next month.

So far the tannin batch is winning out, a bit fruitier and smoother. I now typically add some form of additional tannin (FT Rouge or Tan'Cor Grand Cru) to all my reds.


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## LoneStarLori

*Pinot Blanc yeast test.*

I started a low end WE kit the other day. WE Vintners Reserve Pinot Blanc. I couldn't decide what I wanted to do with it as far as tweaks, so I thought I'd do a yeast experiment. At $67. for the kit, I can afford to take a chance. 

I am splitting the batches into two- 3 gals. One with the enclosed Premier Cuvee and the other with D47. I really like what D47 did to my LE2013 Pacific Quartet. At least I think it was the yeast, but I am not sure. It may just be a really, light a fruity wine. That's why I want to do the yeast test on this first, then I can decide on any tweaks as it nears the 1.02 mark. I want a very light bodied, dry wine, so I don't think I will do raisins. I am leaning toward some dried Elderflowers I have on had for whichever one seems to need something.

I'll try to keep some pictorial records of the stats, but this is a busy month so they may not get posted right away.











*Yeast pitched*






*Next Day. Premier Cuvee looks anxious to get started.*






*Day 2, the D47 is more active and smells wonderful. Very little aroma coming from the Premier Cuvee.*
















Judging by the speed of fermentation, I better start deciding if I'm going to add anything. I may just let these be what they will.


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## byathread

One tweak you might consider on the D47 batch is batonnage (lees stirring) if you haven't tried it before. D47 is an excellent yeast for this and Pinot Blanc is considered a relatively neutral variety that is suitable for lees aging, though it will "fatten" it up a bit, so if you're not going for that on this wine, skip it. Shoebedoo has a good thread on this.

I like Pinot Blancs but am usually disappointed by commercial examples. Or rather, a delicious example I once tried haunts me and I have yet to find its equal. I think it was from Alsace and it was not fruity but ALL flower and mineral. Really beguiling (to me anyway).


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## SouthernChemist

This is actually a great experiment, Lori! This will let you see first hand what the effect of the yeast strain are on the wine. What is the fermentation temperature for the two wines? The battonage/sur lie idea is also a good one worth considering later on once things have settled.


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## LoneStarLori

I have read the D47 gives the wine a good benefit for bringing out different flavors when left on the lees a bit longer. I will use the battonage method. Good suggestions.

Fermentation temp is about 74º. At least that is what is was 12 hours after I started and BEFORE I broke my thermometer.


----------



## LoneStarLori

byathread said:


> One tweak you might consider on the D47 batch is batonnage (lees stirring) if you haven't tried it before. D47 is an excellent yeast for this and Pinot Blanc is considered a relatively neutral variety that is suitable for lees aging, though it will "fatten" it up a bit, so if you're not going for that on this wine, skip it. Shoebedoo has a good thread on this.


I had to look this up and found a nice little video.( It made me want to try the batonnage even more. This guy seems like someone I could sit and talk with for hours. He's so excited about wine making

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX23YU2vPi4&feature=player_embedded"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX23YU2vPi4&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


Now here's my latest update. I racked to secondary tonight. I will try the batonnage on the D47 batch. Like Byathread mentioned, it is supposed to be a yeast that likes to rest on the gross lees a while so that made sense. I don't have any barrels so it won't be a true aging batonnage like in the video, but I will give it a few weeks on the lees.

The second one, I racked off the gross lees and added ruby grapefruit zest to the carboy. Notice the SG on the Premier Cuvee. it went much drier than the D47 did. I also noticed the lees where quite a bit lighter. The D47 is more fruitier and the Premier has a definite lemony note. 

These are going to rest for a few weeks before I rack again. I am going on a long awaited Alaskan cruise and so they will get to do their own thing for a while.


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## byathread

Keep in mind you won't get much of the "sur lie" character if you are not also fully stirring up the lees into suspension for about 4 or more weeks. Often it is done 3 times/wk for the first few weeks, then tapered off to once/week, then even less frequently if the process is continued. But everyone needs a vacation and your wine will wait.

I think you'll get two similar but quite distinctive wines. Keep us posted and enjoy your vacation!


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## LoneStarLori

*WE Vinters reserve Pinot Blanc kit update*

Well I'm back from a fabulous vacation cruising the inside passage of Alaska. It's a must do if you have ever thought about it. 

Time for a quick update on the what the Pinot Blanc kit did in my absence.
To recap, I took an inexpensive WE Vinter's Reserve Pinot Blanc kit and split it into 2, 3 gallon batches. Mainly to see what two different yeasts would do to the end product. The kit came with Premier Cuvée which I used on half, and I like how my LE Pacific Quartet turned out using D47 so I thought I'd try that on the other half. I also thought I'd try some tweaks. 
On the D47, I attempted some battonage/sur lie as suggested by _Byathread_. Well, that didn't work out too well because I wasn't home to stir it and because I don't have a barrel. Maybe in the future I can try it again. It sounds too interesting to not try it. The Premier Cuvée batch got a dose of grapefruit zest as suggested by Joe (_Joe'swine_).

Upon tasting the D47 today and it sitting on the gross lees for 3 weeks, it certainly is fruitier than the Premier Cuvée batch. I expected that (and hoped for it) from the yeast. The med toast oak may have been a mistake. It has almost a smokey nose and can be tasted rather strongly. I'm hoping that will smooth out with time. 
The batch with Premier Cuvée and addition of grapefruit zest is a blast of citrus to the nose for sure. Maybe even a little lemon tasting. It's quite dry and pretty much the characteristic of a Pinot Blanc. I like it.

You can see by the color, these are clearly two different wines by the color. Two wines, two different tastes from one kit. Experimenting is fun! 

I added the fining and clearing agents today so we wait some more and let it clear. I have a camping trip in 3 weeks, so I will aim for racking once before I go and then again after returning in prep for bottling. 

*A few weeks ago after first racking and adding tweaks*







*Today before racking and fining.* 






*After fining, time to let it settle.* 








*Gotta share! Zip lining at Grzzly Falls in Skagway. (Daughter, Hubs, me)*






*Walking on Mendenhall glacier. (Daughter, me and hubs) As my daughter said, this was "life changing". That blue puddle in the middle is about 1200' deep into pure ice, watch your step! *


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## geek

wow, very nice Lori....


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## LoneStarLori

*Pinot Blanc conclusion*

It's time for a final update on the WE Vinter's Reserve Pinot Blanc. To recap; this is an inexpensive kit from Wine Expert (< $75.) that I wanted to try a little yeast test on by splitting the kit into two - 3gal carboys using the Premier Cuvée that came with the kit and Lavlin D-47. I had used D-47 on a WE LE2014 Pacific Quartet and was quite pleased so I wanted to see what it would do to the Pinot Blanc. I had hoped it would make it a little more fruity and it did. However, it also made what should have been a dry wine, off dry. It has ended up being much closer to a Chardonnay. Not bad, but not a dry wine as a Pino Blanc should be. In addition I added oak cubes to the D-47 batch at first racking and it is very prominent. 
A tweak was also made to the batch having the Premier Cuvée. I added zest of one red grapefruit when I racked it to secondary. That proved to be a nice addition. It was a little strong at first, but after 2 months, there is just a hint of grapefruit. This is a drier wine for sure and I prefer it. As do the two ladies that helped me bottle it this week. 
We all agreed that the oak in the D-47 was too strong at this stage, but since I had help, I was determined to bottle it. So we did some experimenting on blending and ended up with 3 gals Premier Cuvée to 2 gals D-47. We drank last gallon of the D-47. Well, most of it. 

Here are a few highlights of the process. 































*This is 4 weeks after adding clearing agents. Not too impressive so I added my go-to rescue clearing agent, Sparkolloid to the Premier Cuvee batch to see if it would help. After only three days there was major progress, so I added it also to the D-47 and let them let a few more weeks.* 
















*Bottling day! I admit I got ahead of myself on these labels. They were designed and printed before the wine was ready to bottle. Although it has citrus undertones as the description states, it is not dry. Off dry would be a better description. *











All in all, I am very pleased with the result. I will reserve using D-47 for my sweeter wines and will probably use the zest more often. It's a nice touch. 
_Thanks to Joe's Wine for posting the zesting ideas. _


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## byathread

Just curious, what were the final gravities on those two batches?
D47 should be able to easily ferment up to 14%abv and I've had it go higher with nutrients and aeration.


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## LoneStarLori

The D47 ended up at 13.6% and the Premier Cuvee 13.7%. I image if it had been 1.10, we would have have 14.4. These numbers are according to my Excel wine making log I found on the internet created by "ithink2020" Math is not my strong point so I borrowed this. 

They both started at 1.094. The D47 stopped at .994 and the Premier at .993.


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## joeswine

*Sharaz/vioginer*

A excellent blend with A great TASTE profile/ some wines have it and this one is know exception,given more maturity this wine will be a prize winner and i know prize winners.


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## LoneStarLori

Aw Joe, what a great compliment  I would love to place in a contest someday. Maybe I will enter the Grapevine Winefest next fall. It's the biggest wine festival in Texas. 

That is the one I added tannin riche to.


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## Boatboy24

I really like your Pinot Blanc labels, Lori. Well done.


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## byathread

LoneStarLori said:


> They both started at 1.094. The D47 stopped at .994 and the Premier at .993.



Gotcha. So they both fermented dry, but the D47 batch has the impression of being off-dry due to the vanillin oak profile I suppose. Whites are very easily overpowered by oak, but it sounds like you worked out a blend you like in the end. Really nice labels, btw.


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## LoneStarLori

Thanks for the compliments on the labels guys. Those are printed by Grogtag. Kind of pricy at about $25 w/shipping but they are vinyl and come with front and back labels. Their design software is pretty easy too. 


byathread said:


> Gotcha. So they both fermented dry, but the D47 batch has the impression of being off-dry due to the vanillin oak profile I suppose. Whites are very easily overpowered by oak, but it sounds like you worked out a blend you like in the end. Really nice labels, btw.





I Didn't think about the oak adding the off dry profile. Good call. You are probably right.


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## joeswine

*Oak in the mix*

*ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS* ,THE  ONLY WHITE THAT CAN TRULY STAND UP TO A DECENT OAKING IS A _CHARDENAY_,WHITE WINE CAN BE OVERPOWERED VERY EASILY AND THERE'S NO TAKING IT OUT.IN SOME CASES LIKE *FRANCES FORD COPPOLA* CHARDENAY HALF IS STEEL COLD STABLIZED /THE BALANCE IS IN OAK FOR 1 MONTH JUST TO GET THAT ACIDITY UP THEN BLENDED AND BY THE WAY A EXCELLENT WINE AT ABOUT 12.99 PER BOTTLE TRY ONE AND YOU'LL UNDERSTAND THE BALANCE PORTION OF THE *GREAT WHITES.......A LITTLE FRUIT FOR THOUGHT!*


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## tshank

Hi joe, 

I started a WE Pinot Noir yesterday that you added the blackberries to, I liked your tutorial on this. I got side tracked with a family issue and when I came back to it I realized that I had forgotten to add the simple syrup. Is it too late to add? Thanks. Tom


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## joeswine

*Adding simple syrup*

HOW FAR ALONG IN THE PROCESS ARE YOU? IF YOUR STILL IN PRIMARY OK THEN ADD, IF YOUR AT THE END YOU CAN STILL CAPITALIZE, WHAT IS YOU SG AT THIS POINT???


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## tshank

After adding the fpac my SG was 1.090. I added the yeast yesterday around noon. I'll check SG when get home. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## tshank

SG is now 1.075


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## joeswine

*Capitalizing*

Go ahead and add the simple syrup at this point,your using ec1118 correct?


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## tshank

Added, thanks so much for this thread! I really appreciate the help an knowledge I have gained here.

Tom


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## LoneStarLori

*WE Selection Brunello kit tweaked*

Well folks, here goes another kit tweak. I have upped the ante this time and spent some real money on a kit. No it's not the most expensive you can buy, but it's the most expensive I have ever bought. I have a WE Selection Brunello kit that includes 16L of grape juice concentrate and a 1.5L bag of juicy grape skins. I bag of med toast American oak chips and 2 bags of Hungarian oak cubes. 

Normally I would include pictures of the kit contents but I had SEVEN of my sister-in-laws and dear Mother-in-law here when I started the kit and it would have been a difficult production. They wanted to see how I make all this wonderful wine I give them (and I wonder why I run out of wine so fast?  )and it seemed like a good time to share the fun of making wine.

I'm sure this kit could stand just fine on it's own, but I wanted to do a little tweaking to try and add just a bit more dimension. Over the last year I have done about 12 kits. Most of them were tweaked using Joeswine methods. Some were not. I can tell you without a doubt, the ones I tweaked with raisins, tannins, Elderflowers or zests are by far more enjoyable. The few that I did not stray from the manufacturers instructions are a little too boring to me. Therefore, I am going to continue to tweak.

Since this is a higher end kit, I'm going with higher end ingredients. I will be using black Zante currants (from Corinth grapes) and Tannin Riche. The currants will add a little more fruitiness and body, while the Tannin riche will also enhance the body and give it hint of vanilla and coffee. The manufacturer says it adds coconut but I have never picked that up myself. 






The kit was started Aug. 8, 2014. The starting SG out of the box was just under 1.095 so I added 1/2 pound of Demerara sugar to the juice and stirred throughly. That brought it up to 1.099. I considered adding more sugar to get it to 1.10 but since I didn't really know what the grape pack would add, I left it at 1.099. Following the instructions we added the grape pack using the mesh bag that was included along with the bag of oak chips. Then pitched the 2 packs of EC-1118 that were included. 

*The grape pack. Which was referred to as "donkey balls" by one of the ladies. We are still considering this as the name for the wine. *






*Sis-in-law Adrianna gets the honor of pitching the yeast.* 






*By the next morning, we had a good ferment started. *






The must was stirred daily and the grape bag squeezed.

*8-11-14, SG 1.022 time to add the currants.*











*8-12-14 SG=.998 I'm going to let it go one more day.*

*8-13-14 SG=.995. Time to rack to secondary. *





*Here is what is leftover of the skins and currants. Since the currants were only in there 2 days and still have more to offer, I am going to add them back into the carboy. *






*I then added the currants back into the carboy and 2 Tsp. of Tannin Riche powder. 
*





*Racking process using the All-in-One pump.* Notice how I am going from a primary on the floor up to a carboy on a moveable cart? My best investment EVER!











Now we wait about a week while it finishes fermentation.

To be continued...


----------



## reefman

Lori, 
You're allowed to make wine in the kitchen??? Oh my!


----------



## LoneStarLori

reefman said:


> Lori,
> You're allowed to make wine in the kitchen??? Oh my!



Haha,, it's *MY* kitchen. He has a garage.


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## sour_grapes

Just curious: How much did the grape pack bump the SG? I.e., what was the highest SG you observed?


----------



## geek

as always, great documented process....
I wonder what the SG is now after it went dry to 0.995 and you put the currants back in carboy?


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## LoneStarLori

sour_grapes said:


> Just curious: How much did the grape pack bump the SG? I.e., what was the highest SG you observed?




Dang! I didn't think to measure after adding it. Too many people in the kitchen and too much wine. (In glasses). 


Sent from my iPad Air using Wine Making


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## LoneStarLori

*WE Brunello Selection Kit update*

The currants have now been resting in the secondary for a little more than a week. They are starting to float which tells me they have given up most all they can. 

Checking the SG it's at .994. I'd like to see if it will go a little lower so I'm going to remove the spent currants and return this back to the carboy again and let it sit another week or so before adding fining agents. 







*Floating baby raisins. *











*The sludge. Yep, they're done. *







*I usually rack down rather than to top off. I'll let these sit about a week before fining and adding the soak cubes that came with the kit. *


----------



## joeswine

*Brunello*

looks *deep dark* and _luscious_

 by keeping it in a tight space *you have control* ,not the environment ,good move.


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## LoneStarLori

*WE Brunello Selection Kit update 8-30-14*

As Joe stated above, this wine is a beautiful dark color. It has been sitting for in the secondary for 10 days and the SG has been steady at .993 for about a week. Time to add the fining agents. 
There was a twist to this kit I had not seen before, which was to add the second batch of oak cubes at the time of clearing. Most likely to simulate a barrel. Not a bad idea. 
I racked using my All-in-One wine pump to help degas. I also stirred for 2 mins after each addition of chems to be sure it was degassed. I did not add the sorb ate included in the kit because this is a very dry wine that I plan to age and not do any back sweetening. I am not worried about fermentation restarting. This kit contained Chitosan which I believe is a better clearing agent than Kieselsol that comes in many of the WE kits. The sediment wasn't as heavy as I thought it might be proper to racking so it did not all fit in a 5 gal carboy. So I added all of it back into the 6 gal. I suspect I will get much more sediment in about 10 days, at which time I will rack again. Hopefully it will all fit in one 5 gal. If it does not, I will keep it in the 6 gal and top up with a similar wine. I will also keep the oak cubes in the carboy for 3 months. 

*SG is perfect. *





*Vacuum racking*





*Fining chems and oak provided in kit*










*Added 2 bags of Hungarian oak.*





*Chitosan doing it's job nicely.*


----------



## Simpsini

Lori

Thanks for taking the time to post this. It's very helpful

Dave


----------



## eblasmn9

Hi Lori,

I am drinking a 6 month old SI Brunello as I am typing this. I think you are going to like this wine. It definitely is an early drinker. Out of all the Selection International with skins kits I have done so far this is my favorite. I did not tweak it at all except for running it through my Hungarian barrel for 3 months. What a really nice smooth cherry flavor profile with a fairly long finish. Cheers.


----------



## geek

eblasmn9 said:


> Hi Lori,
> 
> I am drinking a 6 month old SI Brunello as I am typing this. I think you are going to like this wine. It definitely is an early drinker. Out of all the Selection International with skins kits I have done so far this is my favorite. I did not tweak it at all except for running it through my Hungarian barrel for 3 months. What a really nice smooth cherry flavor profile with a fairly long finish. Cheers.



not sure if the barrel aging is making it better for you (I aged in glass carboy and bottled Feb. 17) but I tasted this very same wine and it was too fruit forward, I could taste the 'green' taste for an early wine. This was like 3 or 4 months ago though. I started it back in Sept. 11 2013.

I guess I should give it a try soon as it is approaching a year now...


----------



## Brian55

geek said:


> not sure if the barrel aging is making it better for you (I aged in glass carboy and bottled Feb. 17) but I tasted this very same wine and it was too fruit forward, I could taste the 'green' taste for an early wine. This was like 3 or 4 months ago though. I started it back in Sept. 11 2013.
> 
> I guess I should give it a try soon as it is approaching a year now...



Mine wasn't all that great until it hit 18 months, then it really started to shine.


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## eblasmn9

Hi Geek, You are very well possibly right about the barrel. I have found that the barrel really smooths out a wine and I think it does take away the fruit forwardness in a young wine that some consider kit taste. The underlying wine is quite good with the slightest sour cherry on the finish. It make take yours a bit longer to bring out its best quality but am sure that it will. As I have let it open up a bit tonight a slight licorice flavor is coming out on the finish.


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## LoneStarLori

You guys sure have me excited for this one. I haven't done any decent big reds before so I'm really looking forward to it. I know the cubes are no replacement for a barrel, but I plan to leave them in after the initial racking since adding the clearing agents. Maybe I should start talking to Santa about a barrel.


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## Brian55

Opened an Eclipse Barolo this evening. It's worth every penny of the additional cost. Our Brunello is starting to really shine at 18 months, but the Barolo absolutely stomps it at this point, and it's a month younger...


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## Simpsini

All

I'm ordering a WE Cab Sauv from Chile and thought about doing something different. I've done this kit before, but this time I'm going to bump up the SG to 1.100 by adding simple syrup, 1 TBSP of tanning and putting 1 lb of raisins in the primary..... Are there any thoughts or different recommendations anyone has? This is the first kit that I'm going to modify.


----------



## LoneStarLori

If I'm using raisins, i usually rack the wine at about 1.02 then add the raisins and tannins in the secondary. Then let it sit for about 10 days. If I'm using a fruit f-pac, I add that to the primary. 
Bumping up the SG to 1.10 is a good idea. 
If you want to use fruit, you should choose one that is close to the profile of the variety and pick which flavor you want to enhance. The profile of a cab is described as: "The flavor profile includes plum, cherry, blackberry, blueberry, warm spice, vanilla, tobacco and sometimes leather aromas and or flavors." 
If it were me, i would probably go with blackberries or cherries since I like them more than plums. 
Joeswine has recently posted how to make a blackberry fpac on his thread, *when good wine goes bad,*. Heres a link to that thread. Blackberry pinot noir

Either way you choose to go, I know you will see a big difference verses the kit yo didn't tweak.


----------



## Simpsini

Lori -- Thanks for the input. I plan on doing what you proposed. I'm planning to bump up the SG to 1.10 and then add an F-Pac to the primary. I'm basing this on Joe's comments on F-pacs. "An F-pack doesn’t always have to go at the end of the wine, you can add them to the beginning. An F-pack in the beginning will blend well with the wine but will not usually over-power the taste of the wine. If you add it at the end, the predominant taste of your wine will be the F-pak". 
I'll probaly make the F-Pac out of blackberries or maybe a a grape F-Pac. Either way I'm looking forward to the wine. Like the rest of us, winemakers all my family & friends enjoy the fuits of my labor, and I'm pleased to share with them..... I'll let you know how things turn out....... Life is good!


----------



## LoneStarLori

I call Joe my Sensai. I have been following his ideas and suggestions for a year now and haven't regretted one. Like you, my friends and family are my best customers. I just wish I could get them to pay


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Christmas wine 2014- IM, Merlot Ho Ho is here*

It's mid September and before you know it, Christmas will be here. Wine Expert has released a Island Mist Merlot this year called Merlot Ho Ho. Ok, I admit, I am not a big Merlot drinker, but I liked the name so much, I bought it. I have plenty of friends and relatives who will be very glad to get this as a gift this Christmas. Last December I made a WE Chocolate Orange port fortified with brandy. It is also going to be handed out. But only to the relatives I truly like. 

I don't think there is anyone on here that doesn't tweak a Island Mist kit in one way or another. Since this wine will have added flavors/spices, I have to keep that in mind. The description from WE is: "Round, fruit forward Merlot with notes of orange, cranberry, spice and cloves." I like all of those flavors and they definitely say CHRISTMAS, but I don't want it to be so overpowering that I wouldn't want to drink it in March. So here's my plan.

In order to up the ABV I am adding enough corn sugar to get to 1.095 or so. I will also add this bottle of black cherry concentrate. Why? 1: This is a 10 liter juice kit and I want more flavor and body. 2: Because cherry is one of the stronger notes of a true Merlot and I want to bring that out. I have not tried corn sugar in wine before, but i have it on and will give it a try. This is a $70. kit. If it turns out I don't like the taste of the corn sugar, I'd rather find out on this than a $150 kit. I will also add about 1/2 the fpac included in the kit about midway during primary fermentation. This will help keep those spices under control as well as up the ABV a little more. 

I will start this kit early next week and will post pictures of the tweaks as I go.


----------



## geek

You meant a 7.5L kit.....


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## LoneStarLori

geek said:


> You meant a 7.5L kit.....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


Oops, yes. Why didn't spell check pick that up?


----------



## LoneStarLori

*Brunello Update*

It's been a little over two months since I started this kit so I wanted to let you know how it's going. 
To recap, I used a WE SE Brunello kit. The kit came with a grape pack and 4 packages of oak in addition to the usual chems. 













I'm sure this kit would be fine on it's own but I wanted to add a little extra body and mouthfeel so I did a little tweaking. Toward the end of the primary, at SG 1.022 I added black Zante currants which come from Corinth grapes.






Since this was nearly dry a couple of days later, (.995) after racking to secondary, I took out the supplied grape skins but saved the currants and added them back in. Two days is not enough time to let them do their magic. I also added 2 tsp of Tannin Riche. Don't ask my why, but I love this stuff. It is not as astringent as a standard tannin and is so smooth, I almost want to add it to my coffee. 







Five days later,(SG .994), I racked it once again and removed the currants. I wasn't sure it was fully done fermenting so I did not clear at this time. I waited another 7 days and the SG had dropped to .993 so I continued onto clearing. Leaving the currants behind. 

The instructions on this kit call to add the second batch of oak at time of clearing. I had not seen this before but decided to follow directions and add the oak. After 8 days there was plenty of sediment on the bottom so I racked from the clearing lees and disgarded the oak.


After another 3 weeks, I decided to rack once again and see how she is coming. All I can say is WOW!
I am told I should wait a year to start drinking this, but I doubt that will happen. Although it is still resting peacefully, the taste seems pretty mature to me. It has medium body, dry and nice dark fruits up front. A little spice/pepper. The finish isn't exactly long, but it has promise. The color is a beautiful garnet. 






If you have followed this project from the beginning, you might recall I did this batch with the help of 7 sisters-in-law and my sweet 86 yr old Mother-in-law. I was hosting a girls weekend at my house and thought it might be fun to show them how I make all this wine they so love to drink. 

I haven't bottled yet but I received the labels today. I designed and ordered them from Grogtag. I like their labels becuase they come with back and are easy to remove since they are vinyl. For about $20 per 25 labels I don't mind the extra cost. I don't use them on all my wines. Only the ones I'm really proud of. I think the ladies will like the labels...and the wine of course.


----------



## geek

great post Lori... 

I have that kit, started Sept 11, 2013 and bottled Feb. 11 this year.

I guess it is time to try a sip and see how it tastes...


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## LoneStarLori

Whaaaat? How can you hold off that long? You have more self control than I ever will. Crack one open and let me know what it's like. It's been a year. Time to start enjoying the fruit of your labor. 


Sent from my iPad Air because I spilled wine on my MacBook. Waaaah!


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## Simpsini

Lori

This is a great post. Love your labels. I started the same kit on 28 Sept after reading your and Joe's take on this kit. I racked last week and snuck a taste. WOW!! This stuff is going to be great. I added some simple syrup to bring the SG up to 1.092 from 1.082 and added some extra oak. I can't wait until it's finished. Dave


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## joeswine

*Brunello*

EXCELLENT WORK MY DEAR YOU MAKE ME PROUD.........................


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## LoneStarLori

Thanks Joe! I learned from the Master tweaker. 

(Oh, that almost sounds bad)


Sent from my iPad because I spilled wine on my MacBook. Waaaah!


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## joeswine

*thinking out side the box*

nice showing my dear in the big red contest.............


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## LoneStarLori

*Really thinking outside the box.*

It sure seems like forever since I have posted here. Holidays and pure laziness can sometimes get the better of me. Winter is not my favorite time of year. Time to crawl out of my Groundhog tunnel and make some wine. Actually, I started this right after New Years. It has been a slow go. 

This kit is a little different than the ones I have posted here. It is technically a ‘kit’ but it is an "all juice" kit and comes in a bucket, not a box. This is the Mosti Mondale All Juice Shiraz. I did this kit last year with my daughter and I have to admit, it would stand up to any $15. Shiraz on the shelf. It is silky smooth, very well balanced and fruity. Just dry enough and plenty of wood. Just the way she likes her reds. 

The first batch was called Abby’s Selection, since my daughter chose it for me and brought it down from Fine Vine Wines in Dallas to me in South Texas. We knew we had to make another so this is Abby’s Reprise. 
The bucket is shipped in a box, then there is a large juice bag inside the bucket along with the standard chems and another not usually found in kits, yeast nutrient, as well as oak chips.

This is what the bucket looks like, I wish I had taken a picture of the juice bag inside. It looks like any other except very large and heavy. That's why there is no picture. It took two of us to dump it in the bucket. You can not really make the wine in the bucket that it comes in. (it's right at 6 gals.) You need more room for foam so I put it in a 7.5 gl primary.











Unlike most kits, you know what you are getting.






Provided chems. I will not use the sorbate since I don't intend to back sweeten. I will also use SuperKleer because I know it works, every time. 






This will be my tweak to the kit. I will also add tannin when I rack to secondary. 







The must came out at 109.8 so i did not add any additional sugar. I think the added currants later will bump up the ABV a bit so this should be fine. Sometimes i like to play around and change out the yeast, but the first batch came out so nice, I am sticking with EC-118. The instructions on this kit are quite different than what I normally get from the box kits. This calls to re-hydrate the yeast, which I did. It also says to add the Bentonite added to water at the same time as the yeast. Not directly to the bucket before the juice. 






Here are the stats so far, stirring twice daily in the primary.

1/3/2015 109.8 _Start date_
1/7/2015 108.5 _Moving slowly, gave it a extra robust stir._
1/9/2015 103.5 _Added yeast nutrient as per instructions._ 
1/13/2015 1.014 _Racked to secondary and added 1/2 lb of dried black currants, Oak provided in kit, 2 tbl pf LD Carlson Tannin. (sorry, no pics of this event)._

This is a slow mover. It is not because it's colder because I live in a mild climate. It is apparent the juice is not concentrated. It just acts different. 
At this point I have added my 'tweaks" and am waiting for the currants and tannins to do their thing. Smells wonderful!


----------



## LoneStarLori

Just a quick note on this kit. This week, finevinewines.com has the MM all juice kits on sale. I just ordered a "Grigionnay" juice bucket for $110. delivered with free corks. Can't beat that! I'm looking forward to this mix. Pinot Grigio and Chardonnay. Two of my favorite wines. 
Also, for my fellow tweakers, if you have been wanting to try tweaking with black currants instead of raisins, Amazon has a pretty good price right now of $20. for 4-1lb bags of Red Mill Zante/Corinth. This is a good deal also. I think I paid $15. for 2 bags last fall. 
No, I don't work for Winemakers toy store nor Amazon, I just like to pass on a good deal when I see one.


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## joeswine

*thinking out side the box*

where are you now in the process?????///


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## RCGoodin

Great post. The wine looks great also.


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## joeswine

*Shiraz with black CORTHIAN grapes*

this wine when finished was a mouthful and a taste treat.....follow the flow and how the FPAC was used,,,*think outside the box*.......PHASE TWO TO FOLLOW..............


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## joeswine

*Shiraz with black CORTHIAN grapes*

Follow the flow


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## joeswine

*Black corthian grapes*

THE SIDE BAR.................
javascript://
bunchgrapes.com
Black Corinth Grapes
​*Black Corinth* (aka Zante Currant, the Champagne grape, etc.). An ancient grape, probably of Greek origin. While the main variety is black, there are red and also white forms of the grape, though they are less common than the black form. One of only a very few parthenocarpic grapes in commerce. Other grapes are seedless because the seeds start to develop, then abort. Parthenocarpic grapes have no seed development at all. Black Corinth has the smallest berries of all seedless grapes and must be sprayed with hormone, or have the vine girdled for the berries to set evenly and have any size to them at all. Without treatment, the berries are mostly pinhead size. Very susceptible to powdery mildew, even for a vinifera grape. The name "Champagne Grape" comes from a pictorial in Sunset magazine. Written by Allan Corrin, a produce dealer whose company grows most of the Black Corinth sold in stores in the U.S., it showed a frosted bunch of Black Corinth with a glass of champagne. In actuality, there is an old American grape already named "Champagne" that is a very coarse, harsh tasting labrusca grape. Prune Black Corinth to canes for best production.
© Lon J. Rombough, B.S., M.S., ATM. · bunchgrapes.com · All Rights Reserved.​


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## joeswine

*Coconut fresco ta*

this is the short version of the kit following the basic wine process and done.i might say that this was a outstanding wine for taste especially
*Cornocopia Cocoanut Frascata Kit*​This kit we purchased off Amazon for ~$45.00 shipped. This kit contained the Frascata concentrate, Cocoanut F-pak, as well as labels, corks, caps, packets of yeast, sorbate, bentonite, k-met, and chitosan. This kit contains the essentials for any new winemaker (minus the basic equipment that is needed.)
*What we added: *
•  ball jar of simple syrup
• Spring Water
*The steps:*
• First, we added the bentonite and ½ gal. warm water and stirred until dissolved.
• Next, we added the packet of frascata juice and then topped up to 5.5 gallon mark on our primary fermenter. (This kit makes 6 gal. but it seemed a bit weak, I didn't want it to be too thin in the end.)
• Then, we took an SG reading. The kit as is, came to 1.070. We wanted our SG reading to be a little higher, so we added the ball jar of simple syrup and this brought it up one point. Our SG now is 1.08
• Next, we gave the bucket a good stir and added the yeast.
• The last step: We document the contents on our tag, hang it on the bucket, and draped a towel over the top. Now we wait. 
Update: 
Week 2: We racked to the glass carboy and just let it sit. 
week 3: Tonight we added the packets or sorbate, k-met, and fining agent, and the cocoanut F-pak I must say, the F pak is DELICIOUS! I would love to get my hand on another fpac like that to experiment with. We wrapped the towel around the carboy and put it to sleep. 
Stay tuned for week 4! We plan on racking if all goes well. More to come.
Cheers!
Joeswine and Neviawen


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## joeswine

*Black berry pino nior*

blackberry pino nior sounds good and is very tasty follow the short process and *think o*
*Blackberry Pinot Noir*​​We purchased a medium grade kit (~$80-$90) Pinot Noir Winexpert Kit. We wanted Blackberry Pinot Noir so we purchased 1.5 lbs. of blackberries to go with this. 

*The Winexpert box includes the following: *
· Large bag of juice 
· 1 Pack of Redstar Champagne Yeast
· 2 Chaptalisation Packs (bags of sugar) 
· Package #2 (bentonite) 
· Package #3 (Metabisulphite) 
· Package #4 (Sorbate) 
· Package #5 (Chitosan-(Fining Agent) 
· Mesh Straining Bag 
· 1 package of oak chips
*Just for reference, I’m sure everyone knows by now if they have been following the posts, that you will need certain equipment to make this kit. For the newbies, I’m going to put it below so you know what you need:* 
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity) 
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel) 
· Measuring cup 
· Hydrometer and test jar 
· Thermometer 
· Siphon rod and hose 
· Carboy (6 US gallon capacity) 
· Bung and Air lock 
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging) 
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend Onestep or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!) 
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing 
· 30 wine bottles, thirty corks , thirty seals 
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.) 
*The Process:* 
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. J 
· Add half gallon of warm water to the primary fermenting bucket with the bentonite packet and stir until dissolved. 
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse out the bag with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all. 
· Top up your bucket until you reach a 6 gallons. (I marked my primary before hand so I know where 6 gallons are.)
· Now, we took our SG reading and it was 1.08. We added simple syrup to bring the SG up to 1.10. Our logic is: We wanted at least 12% alc. At the finish because we know the blackberries are going to pick up the flavor at the bottom end. (The blackberries will overpower the flavor if we didn’t have a higher alch. Content. It would just be juice with not much alch.. This is how we do it, I’m sure others have their own opinion.)
· Next, we added ½ tsp of oak tannin. 
· Then we added the oak chips and prinkled yeast on top of that. Don’t stir, just let it sit. 
· Then here comes the blackberry. We created a homemade F-pak out of blackberries. (We are going to write up a separate tutorial for this.) Note: an F-pack doesn’t always have to go at the end of the wine, you can add them to the beginning. An F-pack in the beginning will blend well with the wine but will not usually over-power the taste of the wine. If you add it at the end, the predominant taste of your wine will be the F-pak. 
· We added the the F-pak to a mesh bag and tied it in a knot then added it to the primary.
· We added bellie-bands because it’s chilly in the winter. It’s about 64 degrees in here. After that, I hung my tag on the side, put a towel on top. And we wait. J

(REWRITE WHAT IS BELOW TO MAKE IT GO W/ THIS WINE.)
*Secondary Fermentation:*
Now that we fermented dry (SG reading is 1.010), now it’s time to rack it. 
Notice the grape skins on top? This is the cap that formed from the grape skin packet that was provided in the Wineexpert Amarone Kit, along with the addition of California Raisins (that I added to add more body). 
We racked this down to a carboy but it is pretty gassy. I’m going to let this settle out for a few days and degas some on its own. Over the weekend, I will force-gas it (If I have to) by giving it a good old-fashioned stir. Once I feel that it’s de-gassed enough, I will stabilize it with the potassium sorbate packet, K-Met Packet, and packet of Chitosan (clearing agent). 

UPDATE:​We finished bottling our super-awesome, Winexpert Selection International Amarone Kit. We are quite happy with the results. Our end result is a dark, inky-color, rich, full bodied, wine. It has a spicy-earthy, sour cherry aroma, dried fruit, bitter almond, from the huge volume of tannins. 

For a kit wine that started just 2 1/2 months ago, the results are quite impressive. (We started this kit on August 22, 2013. We bottled tonight, 10/24/2013. After doing this kit, we would def. recommend this one for any true Italian red-wine drinker. 

We would like to thank Winexpert for giving us the opportunity to present one of their finest wine kits they have available. We would definitely recommend this kit to the novice and experienced winemakers alike as it truly is exceptional. 

We are looking forward to our next tutorial now that this one is complete. Please give us feedback and recommendations of what type of wine you would like to learn how to make.
*utside the box.*


----------



## joeswine

*Torrents spanish white*

THIS WINE TURNED OUT VERY NICE THIS IS A GOOD WHITE WINE FOR YOU COLLECTS...CRISP,FRUITY AND SEMI-DRY....
*Torrontés* is a white Argentine winegrape variety, producing 

*Torrontés*​

*Grape (Vitis)*​​

*Color of berry skin*
Blanc
*Species*
_Vitis vinifera_
*Also called*
Torrontés Riojano, Torrontés Sanjuanino, Torrontés Mendocino, Torrontel, and other synonyms
*Notable regions*
Argentina

fresh, aromatic wines with moderate acidity, smooth texture and mouthfeel as well as distinctive peach and apricot aromas on the nose.[1] Three Torrontés varieties exist in Argentina: *Torrontés Riojano*, the most common, *Torrontés Sanjuanino*, and *Torrontés Mendocino*. It is primarily Torrontés Riojano that has received attention for the quality of its wines, and is the variety used for most Argentine wines simply labeled Torrontés.[2]
The three grapes are relatively similar but do have some noticeable differences. Torrontés Riojano and Torrontés Sanjuanino both tend to have large loose bunches of pale grapes while Torrontés Mendocino, however, has smaller, tighter bunches of darker yellow grapes. Torrontés Riojano is the most aromatic of the three, with aromas reminiscent of Muscat and Gewürtztraminer wines. The least aromatic, and least widely planted, is Torrontés Mendocino with the aromatics and plantings of Torrontés Sanjuanino falling in between.[3] All three Argentine Torrontés varieties belong to the _Criollas_ group of grape varieties, which is a term used for presumably American-born cultivars of the European grapevine _Vitis vinifera_.[4]
Around 8,700 hectares (21,000 acres) in Argentina have been planted with Torrontés Riojano, and 4,850 hectares (12,000 acres) with Torrontés Sanjuanino. Plantings in the very high altitudes (1700m+) of the Calchaquíes Valleys in the far north of Argentina have recently met with success. The vine is highly productive and is just under ten percent of all white grape plantings, however as a varietal, it made up almost 20 percent of all white wine sold in Argentina in 2008. The Salta region in northwest Argentina is particularly noted for its Torrontés as the grape thrives in cold dry, windswept conditions.
*History and relation to other grapes*

DNA evidence suggest that the Mission grape _(seen here in a late 19th-century photo growing in California)_ is one of the parents of Torrontés.
Recent research using DNA profiling has shown that the different Torrontés are genetically closely related but distinct grape varieties, and that Torrontés Riojano, Torrontés Sanjuanino, and Torontel (also known as Moscatel Amarillo) are all separate crossings of Mission (originally reported as Criolla Chica) and Muscat of Alexandria.[5][6][7] Torrontés Mendocino was found to probably be a crossing of Muscat of Alexandria and another, so far unidentified grape variety.[8] While the Muscat-like qualities of the Torrontés varieties meant that a relationship to Muscat of Alexandria had been expected, the presence of Mission or Criolla Chica in the pedigree was unexpected to the researchers.[9]
For many years it was believed that the Torrontés of South America was the same variety as the Torrontés grape from Galicia in Spain, also known as Albillo Mayor. This widespread belief was due, in part, to the frequent migration waves of Galician workers that have immigrated to Argentina throughout its history.[2] Indeed, even wine expert Jancis Robinson, noted as much in her 1986 book on the world's grape varieties.[1] However, recent DNA evidence shows that there is probably no direct relationship between the Argentine and Spanish Torrontés varieties[10] and more recent editions of Robinson's wine books acknowledge the new findings.[2]
There is also a less common red wine grape called Torrontés, which is also known under the synonyms Tarrantes and Turrundos.[11]
*Wine regions[*

The provinces of Argentina that grow the most Torrontés. Torrontés Riojano is most widely grown in La Rioja (red) and Salta (orange). Torrontés Sanjuanino is most widely grown in the San Juan province (yellow) while Torrontés Mendocino is most widely grown in the Rio Negro province (blue).

An Argentinian Torrontés.
Torrontés is grown throughout Argentina and its acreage is steadily increasing. Part of its increase in numbers comes from the increase in Argentine wine exportation where the grape has found considerable success in the United States, United Kingdom and aboard but also from a better understanding and identification of the different Torrontés varieties that allow for better accounting of plantings. For most of its history (including into the late 20th century) Torrontés lagged behind Pedro Giménez and Ugni blanc among white grape varieties in Argentina.[2] But by the early 21st century, declining plantings in those two varieties and the growing popularity of Torrontés allowed it to surpass them and become Argentina's most widely planted white variety where it continued to be as of 2008.[4]
The different Torrontés varieties have developed niche in different areas of Argentina. Torrontés Riojano is widely grown in the La Rioja and Salta provinces of northern Argentina and is, in fact, the single most widely planted variety (both red and white) in La Rioja. In Salta, the grape is often planted in high altitude, sandy vineyards that are often more than 1,600 meters (5,200 feet) above sea level. Here, the harsh growing conditions allow the variety to attain high acidity and assertive flavors.[4]
In the arid San Juan province, Torrontés Sanjuanino is found but is planted to a much less significant amount than Torrontés Riojano. Torrontés Mendocino is, by far, the least widely planted variety and is mostly found in the southern province of Rio Negro.[2]
*Outside of Argentina[*
Torrontés is grown in Chile, however, the exact number of plantings (and of which variety) are not completely known. In 1996, Jancis Robinson noted that there were several hundred hectares of _Torontel_ grown but some of these plantings may actually be the Galician variety. Additionally, Torrontés is known in Chile often under the synonym _Moscatel de Austria_ (believed to be Torrontés Sanjuanino).[2]
According to wine expert Oz Clarke, most plantings of Torrontés in Chile is Torrontés Riojano and the grape is primarily used in the production of Chilean brandy wine known as _pisco_.[3]
*Spanish Torrontés[edit]*
While DNA evidence shows that there is probably no relationship between the Galician variety of Torrontés and the South American variety, consumers may still see Spanish wine labeled as Torrontés from the Galician wine region of Ribeiro as well as other _Denominación de Origens_ in such as the Gran Canaria of the Canary Islands (most likely the Terrantez variety of Madeira[4]), Montilla-Moriles and Madrid.[3]
*Wine style[*

Torrontés growing in the Cafayate vineyard of the Salta province.
According to wine expert Jancis Robinson, Torrontés has the capability of producing wines of high quality, but its success is dependent on the skill and care of the winemaking process, particularly in maintaining suitable acid levels to balance the wine. At its most ideal, Robinson notes, Torrontés are _"wines for early drinking that are not too heavy, are high in acidity, and are intriguingly aromatic in a way reminiscent of but not identical to Muscat."_[2] But poorer made examples can come across as bitter and excessively alcoholic.[4]
Wine expert Oz Clarke, also notes the dependency on careful vinification for the quality of Torrontés but also notes that the size of the harvestyield can also play a substantial role. While the aroma of Torrontés is often associated with Muscat, Clarke notes that many examples can be very similar to Gewürztraminer with subtle spice notes mixed with the floral bouquet of the wine. Clarke also notes that the wine tends not to age very well and is often consumed within a year of its vintage date.[3]


----------



## joeswine

*Torrontes the making of the kit*

NOT THAT HARD TO THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX ON THIS ONE,FOLLOW THE FLOW...


----------



## joeswine

*Torrontes the making of the kit*

TORRONTES IN THE FLOW,MAKING THE FPAC WAS EASY AND ADDED IN MY OPPION A LITTLE SOMETHING EXTRA TO THE BODY AND MOUTHFEEL OF THE WINES FINISH....


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

BASIC WINE CHEMISTRY 101

*Basic Wine Chemistry *​ 

*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted. 
*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine. 
Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. 
Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution. 
*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining. 
1


----------



## joeswine

*Kate's cheap chardonnay*

THIS is a perfect example of thinking outside the box. KATE has been doing cheaper wine kits and together we've made a couple of good everyday wines and one that was just to sweet(using mfg. guidelines).YOU REALLY NEED TO TAKE CONTROL OF THESE KITS FOR THEM TO FINISH OUT DECENT.
moving down from a 6 gallon kit to a 5 gallon starting point is were it's at, boosting up the ABV.is the correct way at least that's what we found, follow the process so far see what you think, _TOM_ and I have made two of these check out my other thread" *BEHIND THE* *SCENES,"* for the cab and merlot kits. Now follow the CHARDENAY flow..........


----------



## joeswine

*KATE'S CHEAP CHARDONNAY continued*

follow stage two.........

Katie’s Chardonnay Kit​
It’s been a while since I’ve created a post of my own; I’ve been primarily helping Joeswine with the upkeep of his posts. I wanted to share this kit with everyone because I’ve tried it before and know that it turns out pretty awesome. 
This is a Fontana Wine kit I recently purchased off-line. This traditionally is a 6-gallon kit but I are not making it like so. I am making this a 5-gallon kit as to keep the flavor and better balance between alcohol and wine with the contribution of the one cup of oak (which is traditional to a Chardonnay). 
*Ingredients:*
These are all the basic ingredients that came with the kit. Please see the pictures attached. 

*What additional changes I’ve made:*
-Changing the end volume of the wine from 6 gallons to 5 gallons
-adding the cup of oak
-At the end, by reducing the volume of concentrate, we increased the ABV without even trying. 
-Personal preference: I will be adding zest of 1 grapefruit before racking. This will pick up the PH and give it a clean, crisp finish. 
See the pictures for the process. J
ENTERING STAGE TWO:...............................................................................................................................
WERE NEARING THE FINISH WE LEFT OUR WINE IN THE COLD SINK FOR 14 DAYS AND IT CLEARED QUIT NICELY, WE KNEW RACKING BACK TO A ONE MIX CONTAINER WOULD CAUSE US TO HAVE TO RE CLEAR ONE MORE TIME; THE WORK IS NOT A BIG DEAL WHAT IS, *IS* *THE FINISH TASTE.*

BEFORE I RACKED I TASTED THIS WINE AND LIKE I THOUGHT, THE WHITES SHOULD GO INTO A 5 GALLONS PROCESS ALSO.JUST LIKE THE REDS, THE WHITES EVEN WITH ALL THE SOLIDS WOULD HAVE NOT (IMOP) HAVE HAD MUCH TASTE, BRINGING THEM DOWN TO 5 GALLONS GIVES THESE KITS LIFE AND WITH THE SMALL AMOUNT OF TWEAKS THAT WE DID, WAS JUSTIFIED .SO WHAT WAS THE RESULTS??
SMOOTH UP FRONT WITH DECENT FRUIT NOT OVER WHELMING BUT STILL THERE, CRISP ACIDITY WITH A CLEAN FINISH , WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT OUR YIELD WAS WHEN WE BOTTLE AND OUR COST PER BOTTLE.


----------



## joeswine

*KATE'S CHEAP CHARDONNAY continued*

WERE GOING TO TAKE IT FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTLING SO FOLLOW THE FLOW


----------



## joeswine

*Kate's chardonnay continued*

Katie’s Chardonnay Kit​It’s been a while since I’ve created a post of my own; I’ve been primarily helping Joeswine with the upkeep of his posts. I wanted to share this kit with everyone because I’ve tried it before and know that it turns out pretty awesome. 
This is a Fontana Wine kit I recently purchased off-line. This traditionally is a 6-gallon kit but I are not making it like so. I am making this a 5-gallon kit as to keep the flavor and better balance between alcohol and wine with the contribution of the one cup of oak (which is traditional to a Chardonnay). 
*Ingredients:*
These are all the basic ingredients that came with the kit. Please see the pictures attached. 

*What additional changes I’ve made:*
-Changing the end volume of the wine from 6 gallons to 5 gallons
-adding the cup of oak
-At the end, by reducing the volume of concentrate, we increased the ABV without even trying. 
-Personal preference: I will be adding zest of 1 grapefruit before racking. This will pick up the PH and give it a clean, crisp finish. 
See the pictures for the process. J
WERE NEARRING THE FINIS WE LEFT OUR WINE IN THE COLD SINK FOR 14 DAYS AND IT CLEARED QUIT NICELY, WE KNEW RACKING BACK TO A ONE MIX CONTAINER WOULD CAUSE US TO HAVE TO RECLEAR ONE MORE TIME; THE WORK IS NOT A BIG DEAL WHAT IS, *THE FINISH*.

BEFORE I RACKED I TASTED THIS WINE AND LIKE I THOUGHT, THE WHITES SHOULD GO INTO A 5 GALLONS PROCESS ALSO.JUST LIKE THE REDS, THE WHITES EVEN WITH ALL THE SOLIDS WOULD HAVE NOT (IMOP) HAVE HAD MUCH TASTE, BRINGING THEM DOWN TO 5 GALLONS GAVES THESE KITS LIFE AND WITH THE SMALL AMOUNT OF TWEAKS THAT WE DID, WAS JUSTFIDE .SO WHAT WAS THE RESULTS??
SMOOTH UP FRONT WITH DECIENT FRUIT NOT OVER WHELMING BUT STILL THERE, CRISP ACIDITY WITH A CLEAN FINISH, WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT OUR YIELD WAS WHEN WE BOTTLE AND OUR COST PER BOTTLE.
Katie’s Chardonnay Kit​It’s been a while since I’ve created a post of my own; I’ve been primarily helping Joeswine with the upkeep of his posts. I wanted to share this kit with everyone because I’ve tried it before and know that it turns out pretty awesome. 
This is a Fontana Wine kit I recently purchased off-line. This traditionally is a 6-gallon kit but I are not making it like so. I am making this a 5-gallon kit as to keep the flavor and better balance between alcohol and wine with the contribution of the one cup of oak (which is traditional to a Chardonnay). 
*Ingredients:*
These are all the basic ingredients that came with the kit. Please see the pictures attached. 

*What additional changes I’ve made:*
-Changing the end volume of the wine from 6 gallons to 5 gallons
-adding the cup of oak
-At the end, by reducing the volume of concentrate, we increased the ABV without even trying. 
-Personal preference: I will be adding zest of 1 grapefruit before racking. This will pick up the PH and give it a clean, crisp finish. 
See the pictures for the process. J
WERE NEARRING THE FINIS WE LEFT OUR WINE IN THE COLD SINK FOR 14 DAYS AND IT CLEARED QUIT NICELY, WE KNEW RACKING BACK TO A ONE MIX CONTAINER WOULD CAUSE US TO HAVE TO RECLEAR ONE MORE TIME; THE WORK IS NOT A BIG DEAL WHAT IS, *THE FINISH*.

BEFORE I RACKED I TASTED THIS WINE AND LIKE I THOUGHT, THE WHITES SHOULD GO INTO A 5 GALLONS PROCESS ALSO.JUST LIKE THE REDS, THE WHITES EVEN WITH ALL THE SOLIDS WOULD HAVE NOT (IMOP) HAVE HAD MUCH TASTE, BRINGING THEM DOWN TO 5 GALLONS GAVES THESE KITS LIFE AND WITH THE SMALL AMOUNT OF TWEAKS THAT WE DID, WAS JUSTFIDE .SO WHAT WAS THE RESULTS??
SMOOTH UP FRONT WITH DECIENT FRUIT NOT OVER WHELMING BUT STILL THERE, CRISP ACIDITY WITH A CLEAN FINISH, WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT OUR YIELD WAS WHEN WE BOTTLE AND OUR COST PER BOTTLE.
Katie’s Chardonnay Kit​It’s been a while since I’ve created a post of my own; I’ve been primarily helping Joeswine with the upkeep of his posts. I wanted to share this kit with everyone because I’ve tried it before and know that it turns out pretty awesome. 
This is a Fontana Wine kit I recently purchased off-line. This traditionally is a 6-gallon kit but I are not making it like so. I am making this a 5-gallon kit as to keep the flavor and better balance between alcohol and wine with the contribution of the one cup of oak (which is traditional to a Chardonnay). 
*Ingredients:*
These are all the basic ingredients that came with the kit. Please see the pictures attached. 

*What additional changes I’ve made:*
-Changing the end volume of the wine from 6 gallons to 5 gallons
-adding the cup of oak
-At the end, by reducing the volume of concentrate, we increased the ABV without even trying. 
-Personal preference: I will be adding zest of 1 grapefruit before racking. This will pick up the PH and give it a clean, crisp finish. 
See the pictures for the process. J
WERE NEARRING THE FINIS WE LEFT OUR WINE IN THE COLD SINK FOR 14 DAYS AND IT CLEARED QUIT NICELY, WE KNEW RACKING BACK TO A ONE MIX CONTAINER WOULD CAUSE US TO HAVE TO RECLEAR ONE MORE TIME; THE WORK IS NOT A BIG DEAL WHAT IS, *THE FINISH*.

BEFORE I RACKED I TASTED THIS WINE AND LIKE I THOUGHT, THE WHITES SHOULD GO INTO A 5 GALLONS PROCESS ALSO.JUST LIKE THE REDS, THE WHITES EVEN WITH ALL THE SOLIDS WOULD HAVE NOT (IMOP) HAVE HAD MUCH TASTE, BRINGING THEM DOWN TO 5 GALLONS GAVES THESE KITS LIFE AND WITH THE SMALL AMOUNT OF TWEAKS THAT WE DID, WAS JUSTFIDE .SO WHAT WAS THE RESULTS??
SMOOTH UP FRONT WITH DECIENT FRUIT NOT OVER WHELMING BUT STILL THERE, CRISP ACIDITY WITH A CLEAN FINISH, WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT OUR YIELD WAS WHEN WE BOTTLE AND OUR COST PER BOTTLE.
Final value /cost per bottle $2.02, yield 22 bottles. Remember we reduced this kit from a 6 gallon to a 5 gallon kit then we started and I’m glad we did. Read the tweaks they make all the difference.


----------



## joeswine

*KATE'S CHEAP CHARDONNAY continued*

LAST PHASE.........


----------



## joeswine

*Black current desert wine*

*this is play time for me so watch as i GIVE this already* great *berry* a run for its juice.follow the flow this should prove to very interesting as well as delouses.


----------



## joeswine

*Black current wine continued*

FOLLOW THE FLOW....


----------



## joeswine

*Black current wine continued final*

 *BLACK CURRENT PORT*: I ONCE MADE A BLACK CURRENT WINE WHICH I BOUGHT FROM *WALKERS* AND IT TURNED OUT BEYOND OUTSTANDING THAT WAS IN 2007 AND HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PURCHASE IT SINCE .WHEN I SAW THIS KIT I JUST HAD TO HAVE IT.BLACKCURRENT IS DEEP, DARK AND BERRY RICH, MADE PROPERLY IN ANY VENUE, THE STEPS AREN’T COMPLICATED, BUT NOT THAT STRAIGHT FORWARD EITHER WILL ADDITION OF , 2 PACKAGES OF CE1118,1 BOTTLE OF FERMENTATION JUICE (CONCENTRATED BLK.CURRENT),AND MEDIUM OAK IN THE PRIMARY ,ALSO 1’M GOING TO ADD CAPITALIZATION IN THE RPEIMARY = to 1 quart of simple syrup RAISING THE TOTAL ABV. TO 1.15
 THIS IS A CELLAR CRAFT KIT
 6 WEEK AT 3.7 US GALS.

LET’S PLAY WITH OUR DRINK…AND
 
 * "THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX* "


----------



## Boatboy24

Looks really good, Joe. I'm anxious to follow this one. But don't light a match near that stuff!


----------



## joeswine

*Black current wine continued*

8 hrs. later a good cap ,aroma and fermentation as present, when finished it will have great flavor and good balance with oak and fruit plus alcohol and NOT HOT!


----------



## pokerinvite

Joe, great thread! Ever try splitting a batch to try a more varietal specific yeast? 71b, d47, etc.. 1118 will destroy character IMHO


----------



## joeswine

*Black current desert wine*

1 day after cap was formed fermentation took control, see the difference, that's why the 2 packages of yeast Strong enough to withstand the work .this is what the mfg. wanted it should effect the finish at this point however I'm not done with the *tweaks*.


----------



## joeswine

*Diablo rojo*

this is a excellent kit to have and great to taste..follow the flow watch the tweaks..


----------



## joeswine

*Diablo rojo cont.*

 follow the process...


----------



## joeswine

*Black berry pino noir*

LUSCIOUS BY ANY OTHER NAME,A BLACKBERRY AND PINO NOIR COMBINATION AND A LITTLE TIME ,WHAT CAN I SAY BUT MMMMMMMMMMMM.


----------



## joeswine

*Black berry pino nior*

LETS CONTINUE THE FLOW.
*Blackberry Pinot Noir*​​We purchased a medium grade kit (~$80-$90) Pinot Noir Winexpert Kit. We wanted Blackberry Pinot Noir so we purchased 1.5 lbs. of blackberries to go with this. 

*The Winexpert box includes the following: *
· Large bag of juice 
· 1 Pack of Redstar Champagne Yeast
· 2 Chaptalisation Packs (bags of sugar) 
· Package #2 (bentonite) 
· Package #3 (Metabisulphite) 
· Package #4 (Sorbate) 
· Package #5 (Chitosan-(Fining Agent) 
· Mesh Straining Bag 
· 1 package of oak chips
*Just for reference, I’m sure everyone knows by now if they have been following the posts, that you will need certain equipment to make this kit. For the newbies, I’m going to put it below so you know what you need:* 
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity) 
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel) 
· Measuring cup 
· Hydrometer and test jar 
· Thermometer 
· Siphon rod and hose 
· Carboy (6 US gallon capacity) 
· Bung and Air lock 
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging) 
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend Onestep or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!) 
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing 
· 30 wine bottles, thirty corks , thirty seals 
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.) 
*The Process:* 
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. J 
· Add half gallon of warm water to the primary fermenting bucket with the bentonite packet and stir until dissolved. 
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse out the bag with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all. 
· Top up your bucket until you reach a 6 gallons. (I marked my primary before hand so I know where 6 gallons are.)
· Now, we took our SG reading and it was 1.08. We added simple syrup to bring the SG up to 1.10. Our logic is: We wanted at least 12% alc. At the finish because we know the blackberries are going to pick up the flavor at the bottom end. (The blackberries will overpower the flavor if we didn’t have a higher alch. Content. It would just be juice with not much alch.. This is how we do it, I’m sure others have their own opinion.)
· Next, we added ½ tsp of oak tannin. 
· Then we added the oak chips and prinkled yeast on top of that. Don’t stir, just let it sit. 
· Then here comes the blackberry. We created a homemade F-pak out of blackberries. (We are going to write up a separate tutorial for this.) Note: an F-pack doesn’t always have to go at the end of the wine, you can add them to the beginning. An F-pack in the beginning will blend well with the wine but will not usually over-power the taste of the wine. If you add it at the end, the predominant taste of your wine will be the F-pak. 
· We added the the F-pak to a mesh bag and tied it in a knot then added it to the primary.
· We added bellie-bands because it’s chilly in the winter. It’s about 64 degrees in here. After that, I hung my tag on the side, put a towel on top. And we wait. J

(REWRITE WHAT IS BELOW TO MAKE IT GO W/ THIS WINE.)
*Secondary Fermentation:*
Now that we fermented dry (SG reading is 1.010), now it’s time to rack it. 
Notice the grape skins on top? This is the cap that formed from the grape skin packet that was provided in the Wineexpert Amarone Kit, along with the addition of California Raisins (that I added to add more body). 
We racked this down to a carboy but it is pretty gassy. I’m going to let this settle out for a few days and degas some on its own. Over the weekend, I will force-gas it (If I have to) by giving it a good old-fashioned stir. Once I feel that it’s de-gassed enough, I will stabilize it with the potassium sorbate packet, K-Met Packet, and packet of Chitosan (clearing agent). 

UPDATE:​We finished bottling our super-awesome, Winexpert Selection International Amarone Kit. We are quite happy with the results. Our end result is a dark, inky-color, rich, full bodied, wine. It has a spicy-earthy, sour cherry aroma, dried fruit, bitter almond, from the huge volume of tannins. 

For a kit wine that started just 2 1/2 months ago, the results are quite impressive. (We started this kit on August 22, 2013. We bottled tonight, 10/24/2013. After doing this kit, we would def. recommend this one for any true Italian red-wine drinker. 

We would like to thank Winexpert for giving us the opportunity to present one of their finest wine kits they have available. We would definitely recommend this kit to the novice and experienced winemakers alike as it truly is exceptional. 

We are looking forward to our next tutorial now that this one is complete. Please give us feedback and recommendations of what type of wine you would like to learn how to make.
........


----------



## joeswine

*Caramel port*

this is going to be a real winner in the awards column for me easy and sets up will with age.


----------



## joeswine

*Caramel port continued*

follow the flow these kits have all the good qualities your looking for in a wine kit.


----------



## joeswine

*Simple syrup a key tool*

lean this trick of the trade and think out side the box..


----------



## joeswine

*Simple syrup a key tool continued*

Simple syrup 

simple syrup is a key component in wine making weather your boosting the alcohol level or doing a capitalizations process (same thing) or just back sweetening at the finish ,simple syrup is fundamentally a more assured way to go and the process is simple this is a tool every wine maker should have available in his or hers tool box.
To make Simple Syrup We use Pure Can Sugar Only.
Simple syrup is a 2 to 1 blend (2 parts sugar, 1 part water)
We use ball jars as a measuring device because that is what I store it in.
So, this batch was 4-to-2 blend. (4 ball jars sugar, 2 ball jars water)
which equates to 4 full ball jars of simple syrup ready to use anytime.

First:
-Measure out sugar to water ratio. 
-Next, add sugar to a large metal pot.
-Now is a good time to take the ball jars and place them in the sink in a tray and have your lids ready and your hot mittens (cooking gloves, whatever you call them!)
-Make a well in the center, then dump the water into the well and stir until blended (not disolved yet.)
-Next, turn the heat up to high. Stirring frequently until you see it start to clear a little with a light foam on top. Once you see this, you want to stir it constantly. It will go from simmer to rapid boil almost instantly when it's ready to go. Continue to stir, being careful to NOT GET ANY ON YOU! It will take your skin off, it's very HOT!
-With a metal spoon you should see through the simple syrup just like water, it will be clear. You will know you are done when this happens. (It will be at a hard boil when this happens.)
-You should already have your ball jars clean and ready to go. I place mine in a tin tray in the sink and fill the tray half way up w/ water. I place a wide mouth funnel inside the jars and take the boiling hot simple syrup and CAREFULLY fill the ball jars. Use your mitten and put the lids and rings on the jars and tighten them up. Turn the cold water on them and allow it to run in the tray. The process of the water cooling down the simple syrup will cause a vacuum in the jars and you will hear a "POP!". This will seal your ball jars and by the morning they will be cool and ready for you to handle. This simple syrup will stay good indefinitely. 

This is how I make simple syrup. Another tool in the toolbox.


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

THINGS TO REMEMBER............
*Basic Wine Chemistry *​ 
*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted. 
*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine. 
Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. 
Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution. 
*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.


----------



## Simpsini

Thanks Joe, I need these reminders from time to time. I tend to forget things as I get older


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

this will be my third of these kits and with out fail one of the best finishes in it's classification bare none .the mfg. Has a different twist on this one,the timing of adding the fpac,read your instructions carefully.


----------



## slurve

joeswine said:


> this will be my third of these kits and with out fail one of the best finishes in it's classification bare none .the mfg. Has a different twist on this one,the timing of adding the fpac,read your instructions carefully.



Sorry Joe, but could you clarify which kit you are referring to here?


----------



## joeswine

For some reason it would not. Allow me to post pictures this kit was a coffee Port will try again tomorrow ,it's A proven winner.


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

a proven winner every time..


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port continued*

this port when left to age for a period of time will start to take of a chocolate background and really takes off with a well rounded taste palate.


----------



## joeswine

*yeast charts*

interesting subject knowing what yeasts were designed for specific wine types to fit their profiles, take some time and plan and read as to what your looking for ,keeping with in the wines profile while choosing a yeast type...................................................


----------



## joeswine

*Tools in the tool box*

Making life easier in the man cave...............life in the fast lane......


----------



## wineforfun

@joeswine Joe,
In your third pic from the top, where is that yellow bottle from or what is in it? It appears to be a solid yellow bottle and not a see through like most(think Chardonnay).


----------



## joeswine

*wineforfun*

that bottle comes from a wine maker entitled LUNA DA LUNA they specialize in a good wine of all style but there wines they come in a variety of colors depending on the wine type,this one was reclaimed and inside it is my very special PINA COLADA wine , thanks for asking...


----------



## wineforfun

Thanks for the reply. Very unique bottle.


----------



## joeswine

*Tools in the tool box*

always good to have a variety of tools in the tool box and this is ONE


----------



## volldez

Hey Joe, Where do you get those containers to hold tour carboys? What's the dimensions? Been lugging mine around by holding bottom and around neck for the last 25 years...might be pushing my luck!


----------



## joeswine

There milk creates you can get them at staples I get mine from a friend who works at a hotel.


----------



## volldez

OK, Thanks!
Rob


----------



## joeswine

*Tools in the tool box*

Everyone has a space to work of some sort and there favorite tools to do the job with these are some of mine....


----------



## joeswine

*Tools in the tool box*

Everyone has some sort of Work space and tools that they just coulnd't do with out here are some of mine.


----------



## wineforfun

What is that hook like thing you are holding in the last pic?

Nice looking operation you have there.


----------



## joeswine

That's aa PVC capsule holder you place the capsule, hold it in place and place it in the boiling y with Out getting burnt,saved aton of time and fingers.


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

THESE ARE THE BASIC BUILDING BLOCKS OF OUR CHEMISTRY KNOW WHAT THEY DO ,WHEN THEIR TO E USED AND HOW TO USE THEM ,THINGS TO REMEMBER.
*Basic Wine Chemistry *​ 
*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted. 
*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine. 
Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. 
Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution. 
*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.


----------



## joeswine

*My theory of blending*

THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF A NEW WINE MAKING SEASON SO I WOULD LIKE TO THROUGH OUT THERE SOME OF MY WINE THOUGHTS.
HERE’S MY TAKE ON BLENDING, THE FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS TO ESTABLISH WHAT IT IS IN A TASTE PROFILE, YOUR TRING TO ACCOMPLISH AND WHAT TYPE OF FINISH YOU WANT YOU’RE PROFILE TO HAVE.
NOW THAT YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED THE PROFILE AND FINISH LOOK FOR BLENDS THAT REALLY GO WELL TOGETHER, THAT MAKES WINE BLENDING A WHOLE LOT EASIER.
EX: MAKING A CAB AND MERLOT BLEND IS EASY RIGHT! BUT IF YOU’RE A KIT PERSON NOT SO. A WINEMAKER WHO USES GRAPE AND OR FRESH JUICE HAS THE ADVANTAGE OVER US, WHAT TO DO? *UNDERSTAND? SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO KNOW AND HOW DO WE GET THERE.*
*BLENDING CONSIST OF A TWO DIFFERENT WINES OR MORE HAVING SOME OF THE SAME CHARISTERICTS YET DIFFERENT ENOUGH IN THE BLEND TO STANDOUT ON ITS OWN IN RESPECT TO THE OTHERS ROLL IN THE MIX.USUALY THIS IS ALL DONE AFTER THE WINES ARE COMPLETED AND READY FOR BOTTLING.*
KIT MAKERS CAN DO ALL THE SAME MOVES ONLY GOING DOWN A VERY DIFFERENT AVENUE, IF YOU THINK OF ALL THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE. WE HAVE THE BASIC CONCENTRATES TO WORK WITH AND DEPENDING ON THE VALUE OF THE KIT A LARGER AMOUNT OF VERITAL JUICE THEN CONCENTRATE,ADDING FRESH MADE FPACS TO THE BASE OR ZEST TO THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH THE ADDED AMOUNTS OF OAK,OAK DUST AND TANNINS ADDED ALL ALONG THE WAY. OUR VOLUMNES ARE SMALL ENOUGH TO TAKE CORRECTIVE ACTION AS LONG AS WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE BASIC WINE RULES AND SANATATION THAT’S REQUIRED,WE CAN CHANGE PERTTY MUCH ON A DIME AND DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO OUR PRODUCT.
LET SAY I WAS GOING TO MAKE A BLACKBERRY PINO NIOR,THE FIRST QUESTION I ASK IS WHATS THE PRIMARY FLAVOR AND WHATS THE SECONDARY.DEPENDING ON WHAT PROFILE I WANT THE WINE TO HAVE (TASTE) WILL LET ME KNOW WHO IS THE LEADER IN THIS DANCE, THE PINO OR THE BLACKBERRY,IF I USE THE PINO AS THE BASE AND THE BLACKBERRY FPAC IN THE PRIMARY THEN THE BLEND SHOULD BE A PARTENERSHIP OF FLAVORS,IF I USE THE PINO AS MY BASE AND THE BERRIES IN THE SECONDARY THEN THE BERRIES BECOME THE BACKGROUND.
*I want to make a pinot Gris, from California and wanted to create crispness and a better bite to the wines finish, I would finish out the wine making sure I first had good abv. At the finish then either in the secondary or as a closing step a couple of weeks before bottling I would add the zest of 1 grapefruit or lemon to the wine and allow it two sit to infuse its acidity and freshness to the wine, then rack and bottle.*
* Making your own fpac from fresh grapes whenever and where ever you find them adds a better mouthfeel to the finish.*
 There are a lot of different ways kit winemakers can infuse, enhance and create our wines to have a touch of our own hand in the making but you must take the time to *plan your work and work your plan*, and always think outside the box.


----------



## joeswine

*my theory of a partnership*

What do I mean by a theory of *partnership, think* of the wine not as just making a fermented product but your a chef and your making a sauce, understand? 

now lets take that another step forward, a partnership in wine is two similar products having some of the same characteristics but not quite they merge and transform into a unit of flavor one not necessarily overpowering the other but a smooth transition of flavors, *a partnership*. typically reds form this partnership quite well as so do some whites, these are all achieved by first knowing the profiles of the individual wine style and then merging them with the correct yeast to achieve that taste profile ,then after the wine has finished and is ready to move forward ,they are sampled and blended glass by glass to the finished product.

 On the other hand when adding a enhancement taste to the *secondary* it now becomes a background flavor a sub partner if you will EX: if I added raspberries to the secondary of a _Shiraz_ you would then taste the berries as a distant flavor muted but still there and I might even expect it to be in the aroma. Lets say you have a pino grigio to create a pleases bite to the finish and pick up the acidity on the wine I could add the zest of a grapefruit in the primary or the secondary the affect is the same, really. If you take a look at what is posted on behind the scenes you'll see a list of yeast and the taste profiles that they can contribute to, these are the ingredients that we as *wine chefs* have at our disposal, just think about what you want to achieve ,no your taste profiles and have a plan don't just ferment juice that's *no fun, figure* out what style wine goes with what yeast better to achieve that end and the* partnerships in wine.*


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

in general the basic wine chemical components should be outstanding in your mine but if your like *me sometimes I forget so I post and refer*
*Basic Wine Chemistry *​ 
*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted. 
*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine. 
Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. 
Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution. 
*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.


----------



## joeswine

*Black current desert wine*

THIS IS THE SECOD TIME IVE DONE THIS KIT ITS JUST THAT GOOD ,THIS TIME I CHANGED OUT THE YEAST TO A WYEAST 4767,SEE DESCRIPTIVE;
https://www.wyeastlab.com/default.cfm
Bottom of Form​

*YEAST STRAIN**: 4767 | Dry / Fortified™ *
Mild toast and vanilla nose. Mild fruit profile with balanced depth and complexity. Very dry finish. Dry red and white wines, add brandy for classic ports. Also used for big red wines and high sugar musts. 
*Origin:* 
*Flocculation:* Medium-low
*Attenuation:* NA
*Temperature Range:* 60-90°F, 16-32°C
*Alcohol Tolerance:* 14% ABV


----------



## joeswine

*Black current wine continued*

see the yeast change should make a suttle difference in the finish the first one was spot on this should take to competition edge


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

*Basic Wine Chemistry *​ 
*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted. 
*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine. 
Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. 
Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution. 
*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining. 
Simple syrup 

simple syrup is a key component in wine making weather your boosting the alcohol level or doing a capitalizations process (same thing) or just back sweetening at the finish ,simple syrup is fundamentally a more assured way to go and the process is simple this is a tool every wine maker should have available in his or hers tool box.
To make Simple Syrup We use Pure Can Sugar Only.
Simple syrup is a 2 to 1 blend (2 parts sugar, 1 part water)
We use ball jars as a measuring device because that is what I store it in.
So, this batch was 4-to-2 blend. (4 ball jars sugar, 2 ball jars water)
which equates to 4 full ball jars of simple syrup ready to use anytime.
 
First:
-Measure out sugar to water ratio. 
-Next, add sugar to a large metal pot.
-Now is a good time to take the ball jars and place them in the sink in a tray and have your lids ready and your hot mittens (cooking gloves, whatever you call them!)
-Make a well in the center, then dump the water into the well and stir until blended (not disolved yet.)
-Next, turn the heat up to high. Stirring frequently until you see it start to clear a little with a light foam on top. Once you see this, you want to stir it constantly. It will go from simmer to rapid boil almost instantly when it's ready to go. Continue to stir, being careful to NOT GET ANY ON YOU! It will take your skin off, it's very HOT!
-With a metal spoon you should see through the simple syrup just like water, it will be clear. You will know you are done when this happens. (It will be at a hard boil when this happens.)
-You should already have your ball jars clean and ready to go. I place mine in a tin tray in the sink and fill the tray half way up w/ water. I place a wide mouth funnel inside the jars and take the boiling hot simple syrup and CAREFULLY fill the ball jars. Use your mitten and put the lids and rings on the jars and tighten them up. Turn the cold water on them and allow it to run in the tray. The process of the water cooling down the simple syrup will cause a vacuum in the jars and you will hear a "POP!". This will seal your ball jars and by the morning they will be cool and ready for you to handle. This simple syrup will stay good indefinitely. 

This is how I make simple syrup. Another tool in the toolbox. 

Simple syrup 

simple syrup is a key component in wine making weather your boosting the alcohol level or doing a capitalizations process (same thing) or just back sweetening at the finish ,simple syrup is fundamentally a more assured way to go and the process is simple this is a tool every wine maker should have available in his or hers tool box.
To make Simple Syrup We use Pure Can Sugar Only.
Simple syrup is a 2 to 1 blend (2 parts sugar, 1 part water)
We use ball jars as a measuring device because that is what I store it in.
So, this batch was 4-to-2 blend. (4 ball jars sugar, 2 ball jars water)
which equates to 4 full ball jars of simple syrup ready to use anytime.
 
First:
-Measure out sugar to water ratio. 
-Next, add sugar to a large metal pot.
-Now is a good time to take the ball jars and place them in the sink in a tray and have your lids ready and your hot mittens (cooking gloves, whatever you call them!)
-Make a well in the center, then dump the water into the well and stir until blended (not disolved yet.)
-Next, turn the heat up to high. Stirring frequently until you see it start to clear a little with a light foam on top. Once you see this, you want to stir it constantly. It will go from simmer to rapid boil almost instantly when it's ready to go. Continue to stir, being careful to NOT GET ANY ON YOU! It will take your skin off, it's very HOT!
-With a metal spoon you should see through the simple syrup just like water, it will be clear. You will know you are done when this happens. (It will be at a hard boil when this happens.)
-You should already have your ball jars clean and ready to go. I place mine in a tin tray in the sink and fill the tray half way up w/ water. I place a wide mouth funnel inside the jars and take the boiling hot simple syrup and CAREFULLY fill the ball jars. Use your mitten and put the lids and rings on the jars and tighten them up. Turn the cold water on them and allow it to run in the tray. The process of the water cooling down the simple syrup will cause a vacuum in the jars and you will hear a "POP!". This will seal your ball jars and by the morning they will be cool and ready for you to handle. This simple syrup will stay good indefinitely. 

This is how I make simple syrup. Another tool in the toolbox. 
Simple syrup 

simple syrup is a key component in wine making weather your boosting the alcohol level or doing a capitalizations process (same thing) or just back sweetening at the finish ,simple syrup is fundamentally a more assured way to go and the process is simple this is a tool every wine maker should have available in his or hers tool box.
To make Simple Syrup We use Pure Can Sugar Only.
Simple syrup is a 2 to 1 blend (2 parts sugar, 1 part water)
We use ball jars as a measuring device because that is what I store it in.
So, this batch was 4-to-2 blend. (4 ball jars sugar, 2 ball jars water)
which equates to 4 full ball jars of simple syrup ready to use anytime.

First:
-Measure out sugar to water ratio. 
-Next, add sugar to a large metal pot.
-Now is a good time to take the ball jars and place them in the sink in a tray and have your lids ready and your hot mittens (cooking gloves, whatever you call them!)
-Make a well in the center, then dump the water into the well and stir until blended (not disolved yet.)
-Next, turn the heat up to high. Stirring frequently until you see it start to clear a little with a light foam on top. Once you see this, you want to stir it constantly. It will go from simmer to rapid boil almost instantly when it's ready to go. Continue to stir, being careful to NOT GET ANY ON YOU! It will take your skin off, it's very HOT!
-With a metal spoon you should see through the simple syrup just like water, it will be clear. You will know you are done when this happens. (It will be at a hard boil when this happens.)
-You should already have your ball jars clean and ready to go. I place mine in a tin tray in the sink and fill the tray half way up w/ water. I place a wide mouth funnel inside the jars and take the boiling hot simple syrup and CAREFULLY fill the ball jars. Use your mitten and put the lids and rings on the jars and tighten them up. Turn the cold water on them and allow it to run in the tray. The process of the water cooling down the simple syrup will cause a vacuum in the jars and you will hear a "POP!". This will seal your ball jars and by the morning they will be cool and ready for you to handle. This simple syrup will stay good indefinitely. 

This is how I make simple syrup. Another tool in the toolbox. 

Simple syrup 

simple syrup is a key component in wine making weather your boosting the alcohol level or doing a capitalizations process (same thing) or just back sweetening at the finish ,simple syrup is fundamentally a more assured way to go and the process is simple this is a tool every wine maker should have available in his or hers tool box.
To make Simple Syrup We use Pure Can Sugar Only.
Simple syrup is a 2 to 1 blend (2 parts sugar, 1 part water)
We use ball jars as a measuring device because that is what I store it in.
So, this batch was 4-to-2 blend. (4 ball jars sugar, 2 ball jars water)
which equates to 4 full ball jars of simple syrup ready to use anytime.

First:
-Measure out sugar to water ratio. 
-Next, add sugar to a large metal pot.
-Now is a good time to take the ball jars and place them in the sink in a tray and have your lids ready and your hot mittens (cooking gloves, whatever you call them!)
-Make a well in the center, then dump the water into the well and stir until blended (not disolved yet.)
-Next, turn the heat up to high. Stirring frequently until you see it start to clear a little with a light foam on top. Once you see this, you want to stir it constantly. It will go from simmer to rapid boil almost instantly when it's ready to go. Continue to stir, being careful to NOT GET ANY ON YOU! It will take your skin off, it's very HOT!
-With a metal spoon you should see through the simple syrup just like water, it will be clear. You will know you are done when this happens. (It will be at a hard boil when this happens.)
-You should already have your ball jars clean and ready to go. I place mine in a tin tray in the sink and fill the tray half way up w/ water. I place a wide mouth funnel inside the jars and take the boiling hot simple syrup and CAREFULLY fill the ball jars. Use your mitten and put the lids and rings on the jars and tighten them up. Turn the cold water on them and allow it to run in the tray. The process of the water cooling down the simple syrup will cause a vacuum in the jars and you will hear a "POP!". This will seal your ball jars and by the morning they will be cool and ready for you to handle. This simple syrup will stay good indefinitely. 

This is how I make simple syrup. Another tool in the toolbox. 
no the rules of the road and how to apply them ...


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

ONE OF THE BEST KITS I HAVE EVER MADE AND GOTTEN MANY AWARDS FOR ,FOLLOW THE FLOW...................................................


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port continued*

YOU CAN'T GO WRONG ON THIS PROCESS,REALLY FOLLOW THE FL
​*Cru Coffee Port Kit*​*The box includes the following: *
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)

*Our additions:*
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water

*Tools you will need:*
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose 
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing 
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)

*The Process:*
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. 
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all. 
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons. 
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir. 
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10. 
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5. 
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest. 

After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)

After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy. 
We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it. 
We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port. 
We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir. 
Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.) 
Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a good stir. 
OW......................


----------



## joeswine

*Torrents spanish white*

*torrents, a great white wine and a winner, follow the flow..............................................*


----------



## joeswine

*Torrontes continued*

miles to go before we sleep..............are you with me????


----------



## joeswine

*Blue berry cabernet*

THIS IS STILL IN THE CARBOY WAITING FOR THE OWNER TO COME OVER AND BOTTLE. I TASTED IT LAST NIGHT IT'S REALLY A GOOD BALANCE OF FRUIT AND WOOD,THE ABV .IS SPOT ON, THE BODY IS MEDIUM AND HAS:: GREAT LEGS FOLLOW THE FLOW.


----------



## joeswine

*Blue berry cabernet continued*

follow the flow you don't need a lot of fruit to cerate a real difference in a 6 gallon batch.this is a medium priced kit affordable to buy and work with,,follow the flow.


----------



## joeswine

*Blue berry cabernet continued*

remember this is a vintners kit and you can do a lot with it almost at the end of the flow..


----------



## BigSell

Joe, I have an Eclips Sauv Blanc, no tweeks, taste really flat at 5 months, ph is 3.34, thinking about adding tartaric acit to bring it down to the 3.25 range, what else would you suggest?


----------



## joeswine

*BigSell*

have you done anything with your wine to recover the flavor of it???


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## BigSell

Joe, added 10g of tartic acid last weekend. Will take another PH reading along with tasting this weekend. No other tweeks so far.


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## joeswine

*In the mix*

add the zest of a grapefruit to the mix 1/2 to start, this will built some brightness to the wine, start there.


----------



## joeswine

*Amarone the king of italian reds*

this is a long thread so I will post in phases. Amarone is one of my favorite wines and I'm not a big red wine drinker, take note of the components as they enter the process ,that is what make a good Amarone.It takes time and good sanitation as well as planning. Follow the flow.


----------



## joeswine

*Amarone the king of italian reds*

lets continue with the process of this one no matter how expensive the kit my process would dtill be the same.


----------



## joeswine

*Amarone the king of italian reds*

Moving on down the line..........
*Wineexpert Amarone*​**UPDATED**​Here is our kit that we received from Wineexpert. This kit is a Wineexpert Selection Series Amarone. This kit has the following included. (This list is a little different from the usual kit that you receive. This is a top of the line kit.)

*The box includes the following: *
· Large bag of juice 
· Grape skin pack (You can actually see that there are grape skins in it!) 
· 2 packs of Lavin RC-212 
· 2 Chaptalisation Packs (bags of sugar) 
· Package #2 (bentonite) 
· Package #3 (Metabisulphite) 
· Package #4 (Sorbate) 
· Package #5 (Chitosan-(Fining Agent) 
· Mesh Straining Bag 
· 3 Packages of European Hungarian Oak 
*Just for reference, I’m sure everyone knows by now if they have been following the posts, that you will need certain equipment to make this kit. For the newbies, I’m going to put it below so you know what you need:* 
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity) 
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel) 
· Measuring cup 
· Hydrometer and test jar 
· Thermometer 
· Wine thief 
· Siphon rod and hose 
· Carboy (6 US gallon capacity) 
· Bung and Air lock 
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging) 
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend Onestep or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!) 
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing 
· 30 wine bottles, thirty corks , thirty seals 
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an italian floor corker.) 
*The Process:* 
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. J 
· Add half gallon of warm water to the primary fermenting bucket with the bentonite packet and stir until dissolved. 
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all. 
· Next, we added the smaller “grape skin packet”. It’s lumpy so you also want to rinse the bag out w/ water also, to get all the grape skins. 
· Now, we take the SG reading. We’re at 1.10. 
· Next, we added the smaller “grape skin packet”. It’s lumpy so you also want to rinse the bag out w/ water also, to get all the grape skins. 
· Now, here comes all that Hungarian oak! We are adding 3 packets of Hungarian powdered oak (wow!). 
· Here comes the fun part. YEAST! 2 packets of RC-212 yeast. Cover with a towel and wait 5-7 days, gently punching down the grape skins. 
*Secondary Fermentation:*
Now that we fermented dry (SG reading is 1.010), now it’s time to rack it. 
Notice the grape skins on top? This is the cap that formed from the grape skin packet that was provided in the Wineexpert Amarone Kit, along with the addition of California Raisins (that I added to add more body). 
We racked this down to a carboy but it is pretty gassy. I’m going to let this settle out for a few days and degas some on its own. Over the weekend, I will force-gas it (If I have to) by giving it a good old-fashioned stir. Once I feel that it’s de-gassed enough, I will stabilize it with the potassium sorbate packet, K-Met Packet, and packet of Chitosan (clearing agent). 

UPDATE:​We finished bottling our super-awesome, Winexperts Selection International Amarone Kit. We are quite happy with the results. Our end result is a dark, inky-color, rich, full bodied, wine. It has a spicy-earthy, sour cherry aroma, dried fruit, bitter almond, from the huge volume of tannins. 

For a kit wine that started just 2 1/2 months ago, the results are quite impressive. . After doing this kit, we would def. recommend this one for any true Italian red-wine drinker. 

We would like to thank Winexperts for giving us the opportunity to present one of their finest wine kits they have available. We would definitely recommend this kit to the novice and experienced winemakers alike as it truly is exceptional. 

We are looking forward to our next tutorial now that this one is complete. Please give us feedback and recommendations of what type of wine you would like to learn how to make.


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## jgmann67

Joe - you skipped the chapitalization step in the primary?


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## joeswine

Check out frame #521,glade to see you remember


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## joeswine

*COCOnUT YUZO*

This actually turned out to be a really great tasting wine ,IF you like coconut and I do, follow the flow..great for the summer really!..remember this is a pino grigio base, the base itself was very clean and crisp.


----------



## joeswine

*COCOnUT YUZO continued*

Was a simple wine just as most Island mist kits are but very tasty..


----------



## geek

I thought about making that cheapo island mist coconut kit but never pulled the trigger.
I think I know you add the entire f-pack content at the end, did you measure the SG at that point after back sweeten it? I'm sure it is really sweet.


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## joeswine

No not really, decent balance it is what it is a summer wine .


----------



## JimmyT

geek said:


> I thought about making that cheapo island mist coconut kit but never pulled the trigger.
> I think I know you add the entire f-pack content at the end, did you measure the SG at that point after back sweeten it? I'm sure it is really sweet.




I've made a good many mist kits for my wife and if I recall correctly they usually end up between 1.014-1.018 after the entire fpack was added in the end.


----------



## Tnuscan

joeswine said:


> Was a simple wine just as most Island mist kits are but very tasty..



Joe, 

Were you at 5 1/2 or 5 3/4 gallons on this one?


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## joeswine

5& 3/4 this enriched the base ,check your SG at that point to see if it meets your standards.


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## joeswine

HAVE A GREAT HOLIDAY


----------



## reefman

Thanks Joe, same to you!


----------



## reefman

Joe,
Do you filter your wines before bottling?


----------



## joeswine

*Reefman*

For the reds I rely on racking unless I've added a heavy berry fpac(racking usually will do) on the White Yes as well as cold stabilization .


----------



## Tnuscan

Looks like I'll be racking the coconut yuzu about mid week to stabilize and add fpac. I'm looking forward to this one, it just sounds good!!!


----------



## joeswine

This one's a winner, drank chilled the crispness of the pino grigio is softly accented dy the lovely taste of the coconut and outstanding summer wine.


----------



## reefman

I need a dedicated refrigerator to try my hand at cold stabilization. Hope to have on later this month.


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## wineforfun

Just started the Fontana Green Apple Reisling. Added juice, bentonite and sugar to get things started at SG 1.080. Sprinkled yeast on top last night and it is starting to do it's thing this morning. Made it at the full 6 gal.(per your recommendation) since it has a fruit pac to put in at the end.


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## joeswine

Trade you a bottle of my coconut for a green apple when you're done.


----------



## wineforfun

joeswine said:


> Trade you a bottle of my coconut for a green apple when you're done.



Sure thing, but no promises you will be getting an equal trade. 

Pretty much making this by the book. Only changes will be upping the SG to 1.080 instead of 1.050, and racking down to 5 gal. or 5 1/2 gal., etc. to keep the carboys full.


----------



## joeswine

*wineforfun*

 so did I just the basic tweaks, you don't need much more...sounds good.


----------



## wineforfun

@joeswine 
Got to thinking this morning(yes, that is scary) while stirring my must, they must already add nutrients, tannin, etc. to the juice we receive in a kit, correct? Because I notice we never add anything to the juice like making it from scratch and the yeast works just fine.


----------



## joeswine

That's correct it's ready to go what we do with our tweaks is on us.


----------



## Mismost

Joe, I know this is a crazy idea. But, next kit and it will be a big one, I think I'm gonna go straight up and no tweaks....just because I have not done that yet! All my stuff has been tweaked at least a little bit.


----------



## joeswine

*mismost*

what kit ? what style, making kits straight up is very cool and can work out well, just read know your taste profile before you start, I ve found even little tweaks on big kits make them even better, sometimes I have done them straight up and they were so, so .It all depends. keep *thinking outside the box*..with the last one I did on (wgwgb).if I didn't do what I did it might have been to thin and that was a $160.00 kit.


----------



## joeswine

*COCOnUT YUZO*

lets review this party wine one more time before we move on, the coconut fpac is *outstanding*, really.


----------



## joeswine

*Island Mist coconut yuzo continued*

If you like the summer wine products you need to try this one REALLY!


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

THIS IS A TRUE WINNER ,ALONG WITH THE BLACK CURRENT PORT,FOLLOW THE FLOW..


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port continued*

I HAVE WON 3 BEST OF SHOWS WITH THIS ONE AND ITS TWEAKS...
​*Cru Coffee Port Kit*​*The box includes the following: *
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)

*Our additions:*
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water

*Tools you will need:*
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose 
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing 
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)

*The Process:*
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. 
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all. 
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons. 
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir. 
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10. 
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5. 
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest. 

After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)

After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy. 
We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it. 
We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port. 
We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir. 
Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.) 
Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a good stir. 
..


----------



## wineforfun

@joeswine Thanks for posting, I will look for this one.


----------



## wineforfun

wineforfun said:


> @joeswine Thanks for posting, I will look for this one.



Also, what should I expect to pay for this and where did you get yours?


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

Wineforfun ,I might have gotten it from the wine toy store, range in pricing don't remember, just the outcome is extra special done my style.


----------



## wineforfun

joeswine said:


> Wineforfun ,I might have gotten it from the wine toy store, range in pricing don't remember, just the outcome is extra special done my style.



Yeah, I really want to get this one. Will have to keep my eyes open as they release them in a couple months.
Only one I can find now is the Salted Caramel one. Johnd said it turned out sweet, but very good, so may try it for now.


----------



## joeswine

*Caramel port*

This one turned out to be very nice and had a few tweaks but not a lot, follow the short flow......


----------



## joeswine

*Caramel port continued*

follow the flow..........................


----------



## geek

Joe, we got to trade a bottle of the port too...


----------



## joeswine

*Port kits*

When e ever your ready I have a Peach port,Carmel l port, black currant ,blackberry,when ever Your ready in 375 bottles easy to ship you a tasting. JP


----------



## joeswine

*Port kits*

When e ever your ready I have a Peach port,Carmel l port, black currant ,blackberry,when ever Your ready in 375 bottles easy to ship you a tasting. JP and of course Coffee


----------



## geek

joeswine said:


> When e ever your ready I have a Peach port,Carmel l port, black currant ,blackberry,when ever Your ready in 375 bottles easy to ship you a tasting. JP



dammmm, which one you do NOT have? lol


----------



## Tnuscan

joeswine said:


> This one's a winner, drank chilled the crispness of the pino grigio is softly accented dy the lovely taste of the coconut and outstanding summer wine.



Joe, your spot on.

Our son came in yesterday so He, the Wife and I, sipped on a little of this chilled and we were really enjoying it. I told them it was one of Joes tweeked kits and they were amazed, and continually bragged on how awesome they thought it was. I tasted it warm the other day and I wondered if I was going to like it as well as I had first thought. But after chilling it I was blown away!!! 

I just want to say Thanks Again Joe for bringing so much more fun into my winemaking!

CHEERS !!!


----------



## joeswine

*Apple fpac*

really cool to use the summers early arrivals in our wines. A little goes a long way.


----------



## jdwebb

So here's my take on my first kit wines.
So far, I've completed:
Fontana Pinot Noir
WE Chardonnay
WE Shiraz

First my overall take...when they say "drinkable in 4 to 6 weeks", they must be joking. At best, if you can stomach the tartness and overall sourness, they are less than palatable. 

That being said, everything I read here says age for at least 8 months to a year. I hope that's the case. 

The Pinot Noir was started in February, completed and bottled in May with 14oz of blackberries and BM 4X4 yeast. Barely drinkable, no mouthfeel whatsoever, and tart.

The Chardonnay stopped at 1.000 and would not go any further despite temp changes to encourage it and a bit of yeast energizer. It has a distinct Chardonnay flavor, is sweet on the front of the tongue, and cleared nicely,. I added 2 oz of Hungarian Oak for the hell of it. It will sit in the carboy until I get damned ready to bottle it, perhaps sometime around Christmas.

The Shiraz, well, that's a different story. It's terrible, simply terrible. It's also the last one to complete it's journey, and is also siting idly by on 2 oz of French Oak. Started on May 25th with 14oz of blueberries, stabilized at .996, it's a tart-bomb exploding in the mouth. I'm hoping time, lots and lots of time will temper this one out.

All were fermented in stainless steel fermenters at 68ºF to 70ºF, all were degassed properly. all were treated better than most old folk's grandkids and pet dogs.

So here's my bottom line, I'm not giving up quite yet, I have a Mezza Luna currently in final stages of fermentation, and I ordered a Fontana Cab and am going to use Joe's tweaks on it verbatim. But, note to all the kit wine producers out there, stop teasing people with the "drinkable in 4 to 6 weeks" BS, I think that's just plain bull. Now, I fully intend to enjoy all my wines in about 8 to 12 months mind you, I just find that someone at these wine kit makers got tanked up one night and figured out a way to increase sales by telling them they can drink them in a month. Perhaps he thieved too many samples that night from the barrels.







PS: PH on all were between 3.5 and 3.8


----------



## joeswine

Jdwebb: go to cheap wine kits,posted something for you............nice set up


----------



## Mismost

jdwebb said:


> So here's my take on my first kit wines.
> So far, I've completed:
> Fontana Pinot Noir
> WE Chardonnay
> WE Shiraz
> 
> First my overall take...when they say "drinkable in 4 to 6 weeks", they must be joking. At best, if you can stomach the tartness and overall sourness, they are less than palatable.
> 
> That being said, everything I read here says age for at least 8 months to a year. I hope that's the case.
> 
> The Pinot Noir was started in February, completed and bottled in May with 14oz of blackberries and BM 4X4 yeast. Barely drinkable, no mouthfeel whatsoever, and tart.
> 
> The Chardonnay stopped at 1.000 and would not go any further despite temp changes to encourage it and a bit of yeast energizer. It has a distinct Chardonnay flavor, is sweet on the front of the tongue, and cleared nicely,. I added 2 oz of Hungarian Oak for the hell of it. It will sit in the carboy until I get damned ready to bottle it, perhaps sometime around Christmas.
> 
> The Shiraz, well, that's a different story. It's terrible, simply terrible. It's also the last one to complete it's journey, and is also siting idly by on 2 oz of French Oak. Started on May 25th with 14oz of blueberries, stabilized at .996, it's a tart-bomb exploding in the mouth. I'm hoping time, lots and lots of time will temper this one out.
> 
> All were fermented in stainless steel fermenters at 68ºF to 70ºF, all were degassed properly. all were treated better than most old folk's grandkids and pet dogs.
> 
> So here's my bottom line, I'm not giving up quite yet, I have a Mezza Luna currently in final stages of fermentation, and I ordered a Fontana Cab and am going to use Joe's tweaks on it verbatim. But, note to all the kit wine producers out there, stop teasing people with the "drinkable in 4 to 6 weeks" BS, I think that's just plain bull. Now, I fully intend to enjoy all my wines in about 8 to 12 months mind you, I just find that someone at these wine kit makers got tanked up one night and figured out a way to increase sales by telling them they can drink them in a month. Perhaps he thieved too many samples that night from the barrels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: PH on all were between 3.5 and 3.8



yep, more time is more better. Bet you like that Mezza Luna....while maybe not sensational, it is a nice early drinker.


----------



## joeswine

*green apple Riesling*

lets move this one forward ,review and proceed....phase one the FPAC


----------



## joeswine

*Green Apple Riesling continue*

follow the flow.......................


----------



## joeswine

*Torrents spanish white*

TORRENTS IS A EXCELLENT WHITE TO HAVE IN YOUR CELLAR FOLLOW THE FLOW....


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

*Basic Wine Chemistry *​ 
*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted. 
*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine. 
Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. 
Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution. 
*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.


----------



## Johnd

@joeswine 

Looks like something out of whack with this explanation of K sorbate:

"When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation."


----------



## jgmann67

Something like this?


Even though active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, the wine will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol. But when the potassium sorbate is added, the remaining yeast dies and no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation.


----------



## joeswine

That was a cut and paste from Wikipedia,many years ago I believe the info is correct.have used it for years now.


----------



## Johnd

joeswine said:


> That was a cut and paste from Wikipedia,many years ago I believe the info is correct.have used it for years now.



So you believe that "potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol" ? 

I'll just have to respectfully disagree. K Sorbate will not ferment sugar into alcohol. 

This is the clip I found on Wikipedia: 

"Also known as "wine stabilizer", potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate renders any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. Yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die, no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation."

This is a correct statement, looks like your clip has somehow been truncated to exclude the wording in red.


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

Thanks johnd will look into it.


----------



## joeswine

*Tools in the tool box*

Have you checked your supplies for the wine season???


----------



## joeswine

*Tools in the tool box*

better to have to many tools then not enough at least that's my thinking.


----------



## joeswine

*Black current desert wine*

outstanding when finished and allow to let sit,really.LETS PAUSE AND REFLECT. Before we continue.


----------



## joeswine

*Neibiolo a cousin to sangiovese*

EXCELLENT WINE FOR ALL YOU RED WINE LOVERS FOLLOW THE FLOW..


----------



## geek

Last year I made that cheap Barolo/Nebbiolo and for the price it is a very good wine.


----------



## joeswine

Ya,not bad for the price,Im letting it sit a little while before I start tasting hopefully it's not to thin ,we'll see have a great day geek,coffee port did well at cellar masters..


----------



## joeswine

*Super tuscan*

SUPER TUSCAN,BOLD DEEP AND TANNIC,LETS SEE HOW THIS ONE PLAYED OUT.FOLLOW THE FLOW....


----------



## joeswine

*Super tuscan continued*

*SUPER TUSCAN Super Tuscans*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tignanello_BMK.jpg
_Tignanello_ one of the early Super Tuscans.
Super Tuscans are an unofficial category of Tuscan wines, not recognized within the Italian wine classification system. The origin of Super Tuscans is rooted in the restrictive DOC practices of the Chianti zone prior to the 1990s. During this time Chianti could be composed of no more than 70% Sangiovese and had to include at least 10% of one of the local white wine grapes. Producers who deviated from these regulations could not use the Chianti name on their wine labels and would be classified as _vino da tavola_ - Italy's lowest wine designation. By the 1970s, the consumer market for Chianti wines was suffering and the wines were widely perceived to be lacking quality. Many Tuscan wine producers thought they could produce a better quality wine if they were not hindered by the DOC regulations.[6]
The marchese Piero Antinori was one of the first to create a "Chianti-style" wine that ignored the DOC regulations, releasing a 1971 Sangiovese-Cabernet Sauvignon blend known as _Tignanello_ in 1978. Other producers followed suit and soon the prices for these Super Tuscans were consistently beating the prices of some of most well known Chianti. Rather than rely on name recognition of the Chianti region, the Super Tuscan producers sought to create a wine brand that would be recognizable on its own merits by consumers. By the late 1980s, the trend of creating high quality non-DOC wines had spread to other regions of Tuscany, as well as Piedmont and Veneto. Modification to the Chianti DOC regulation attempted to "correct" the issues of Super Tuscans, so that many of the original Super Tuscans would now qualify as standard DOC/G Chianti. Most producers have brought their Super Tuscans back under legal regulations, notably since the creation of the less restrictive IGT _Toscana_ designation in 1992 and the DOC Bolgheri Sassicaia designation in 1994.[6]
In addition to wines based on the Sangiovese grape, many well known Super Tuscans are based on a "Bordeaux-blend", meaning a combination of grapes typical for Bordeaux (esp. Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot). These grapes are not originally from the region, but imported and planted later. The climate in Tuscany has proven to be very good for these grapes. One of the first successful Super Tuscan based "Bordeaux-blend" was _Sassicaia_, by Tenuta San Guido, now classified as DOC Bolgheri.


----------



## joeswine

*Making a FPAC*

fun easy to do not to mention tasty, fpacs can create a entirely different mood swing in a wines normal profile and it's your chance to make an ordinary everyday wine yours.


----------



## joeswine

*Green apple riesling*

FINALLY GOT AROUND TO FINISHING THIS ONE AN IT IS GOING TO BE A GOOD ONE.THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I CAN SAY, WHILE I WAS BOTTLING THE WINE THAT THE FRAGRANCE OF APPLES SURROUNDED ME *VERY COOL*. SINCE IT'S BEEN A WHILE LETS TAKE IT FROM THE TOP AT MAKING THE *APPLE FPAC* TO THE FINISH QUITE A LONG ONE SO POUR YOURSELF A GLASS OF YOUR FAVORITE AND TAKE A TOUR WITH ME.THIS IS A SUMMER WINE TO PLEASE.


----------



## joeswine

*Green Apple Riesling continue*

FALLING A SLEEP YET?


----------



## BigSell

Joe,
Where did you get the capsule tool, I want one, tired of burning my fingers.

BS


----------



## joeswine

At my local brew shop or send Home Brew a picture they should be able to get it. Thanks for viewing no


----------



## joeswine

Just broke 100,000 Views thanks.


----------



## wineforfun

Good work Joe.


----------



## joeswine

*cellar masters*

lets see the places they landed and the lost I encountered, first the players


----------



## Boatboy24

Another Best of Show - great job, Joe. Congrats!


----------



## wineforfun

Wow, excellent work Joe. 

Hey, next time send those entries to me and I will make sure you have ALL gold and best of shows.


----------



## joeswine

*cellar masters*

this wine is always pleasing SHARZA VIOGNIER I really like a lot of the blended ones, here goes....


----------



## joeswine

*Diablo rojo*

NOW ,,NOT EVER WINES A WINNER,AND WERE GOING TO GO OVER THIS ONE IT DIDN'T PLACE AT THE LAST TWO SHOWINGS. But BEFORE I DO IM GOING TO HAVE MY BEST TWO TASTERS WITH GOOD BUDS HAVE A HONEST GO AT THIS ONE THEN WILL COMPAIR THEIRS TO THE JUDGES IN BOTH* COMPETITIONS* AND SEE WHAT ADJUSTMENTS I CAN MAKE TO MAE THIS A BETTER WINE.
JUST BECAUSE YOUR WINE IS FINISHED AND IT DIDN'T TURN OUT SO WELL THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT DONE,,HOMW WINE MAKERS CAN MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO A BATCH THAT WENT WRONG AS LONG AS CHEMICALLY IT IS STILL GOOD.MAKE SENSE?? OR NOT?? BELOW IS HOW I STARTED

DIABLO ROJO; THIS OFF, DRY AND DARK PURPLE IN COLOR BLEND ,NOISE OF BLACKBERRY JAM MINGLED WITH CREATIVE VANILLA AROMAS AND A TOUCH OF TOBACCO AND A BRANDY STYLE FINISH YET IT IS A WINE ALL THE WAY.

SOUNDS LIKE MOUTHFUL. WHERE GONNA MAKE IT JUST THAT. OUR TWEAKS TO THIS KIT WILL BE AS FOLLOWS.

WERE GOING TO CHANGE THE YEAST ,TWO *EC 1118* THIS IS DUE TO THE TEMPERATURE FLUCTUATIONS IN OUR WORKSPACE. SECONDLY, GOING TO ADD A *SMOKED WOODEN STAVE* ALONG WITH OAK TANNINS IN THE SECONDARY. WE ARE GOING TO USE A BELLY BAND DUE TO THE TEMPERATURE IN OUR WORKSPACE. THE OAK STAVE WILL GO IN THE PRIMARY, THE OAK _TANNINS WILL GO IN THE SECONDARY_ AND LONG WITH A *HANDFUL OF FRESH BLACKBERRIES JUST SQUEEZED. THIS IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF FPAC* JUST A HANDFUL OF BERRIES. NOTHING TO OVERPOWER 
BERRIES. NOTHING TO OVERPOWER NOTHING TO OVERWHELM JUST A TOUCH OF BLACKBERRY DEPTH. REMEMBER, THIS IS STILL A ROJO AND THE STYLE IS BOLD AND FRUITY. WE MAY ALSO BRING UP THE ABV. TO 1.14. THIS ONE SHOULD TURN OUT TO BE A MOUTHFUL... FOLLOW THE FLOW..

FINISH; great flavor fruits and woods intertwined medium body and smooth finish. If I WOULD HAVE CHANGED ANYTHING IT WOULD BOOSTED UP THE PH A LITTLE MORE.


----------



## joeswine

*Black current desert wine*

If you love the taste of black currents then you'll really like this one, follow the flow............


----------



## joeswine

*Black current wine continued*

more to the flow this ones ready for competition this year.


----------



## joeswine

*Cheap kits*

cru sangiovese/merlot kit lets review.


----------



## joeswine

*Cheap kits*

topping off with 2 bottles from the* one gallon* merlot kit i made see what you can do with them.


----------



## joeswine

*Simple syrup a key tool*

Simple syrup 

simple syrup is a key component in wine making weather your boosting the alcohol level or doing a capitalizations process (same thing) or just back sweetening at the finish ,simple syrup is fundamentally a more assured way to go and the process is simple this is a tool every wine maker should have available in his or hers tool box.
To make Simple Syrup We use Pure Can Sugar Only.
Simple syrup is a 2 to 1 blend (2 parts sugar, 1 part water)
We use ball jars as a measuring device because that is what I store it in.
So, this batch was 4-to-2 blend. (4 ball jars sugar, 2 ball jars water)
which equates to 4 full ball jars of simple syrup ready to use anytime.
 
First:
-Measure out sugar to water ratio. 
-Next, add sugar to a large metal pot.
-Now is a good time to take the ball jars and place them in the sink in a tray and have your lids ready and your hot mittens (cooking gloves, whatever you call them!)
-Make a well in the center, then dump the water into the well and stir until blended (not disolved yet.)
-Next, turn the heat up to high. Stirring frequently until you see it start to clear a little with a light foam on top. Once you see this, you want to stir it constantly. It will go from simmer to rapid boil almost instantly when it's ready to go. Continue to stir, being careful to NOT GET ANY ON YOU! It will take your skin off, it's very HOT!
-With a metal spoon you should see through the simple syrup just like water, it will be clear. You will know you are done when this happens. (It will be at a hard boil when this happens.)
-You should already have your ball jars clean and ready to go. I place mine in a tin tray in the sink and fill the tray half way up w/ water. I place a wide mouth funnel inside the jars and take the boiling hot simple syrup and CAREFULLY fill the ball jars. Use your mitten and put the lids and rings on the jars and tighten them up. Turn the cold water on them and allow it to run in the tray. The process of the water cooling down the simple syrup will cause a vacuum in the jars and you will hear a "POP!". This will seal your ball jars and by the morning they will be cool and ready for you to handle. This simple syrup will stay good indefinitely. 

This is how I make simple syrup. Another tool in the toolbox.


----------



## joeswine

We just broke 100,000 views​,thanks to all and all of you keep thinking outside the box.


----------



## CheerfulHeart

*Tweaking Naughty Merlot?*

I recently bought an IM Naughty Merlot kit. I would like to boost the body and the ABV just a bit. 

No bananas in my pantry and nearest grocery store is 45 minutes away.

A can of Alexander Merlot concentrate has been sitting on the shelf for a while and is in need of being used.

My thoughts are to bump the SG to 1.095 or 1.10 with half the fpac and some simple syrup if needed and add a liter of the Alexander concentrate. 

I might add some raisins and tannin to secondary.

Does this sound like a good approach?


----------



## joeswine

Hi, Question is that and Island Mist kit and does it have a Fpac if so just bumped up the Abv.tannins in the secondary are always nice,if it doesn't come with an Fpac,1/2 cups of raisins in the primary some oak , secondary 1 cup your concentrate and tannins again just 1 talbe spoon.


----------



## joeswine

*Hammonton wine contest*

always afun time,good people decent wine and excellent judging,this is how i did,,


----------



## joeswine

*Black current desert wine*

a great after dinner wine or just as a treat to your palate this desert wine is spot on in every fashion. Follow the flow.


----------



## joeswine

*Black current wine continued*

more to come stay with me ,wine making has many steps but once you've mastered them you can move through the process quit quickly, follow the flow.


----------



## joeswine

*Sangiovese the prince of italian reds*

one of the best italian wines out there,follow the flow ..


----------



## joeswine

*Sangiovese the prince of italian reds*

we have a ways to go the flow is long but when you make wine you should always allow enough time to FOLLOW THE FLOW>,,,,,,<<<<<<<<


----------



## joeswine

*Black berry desert wine*

DEEP,DARK ,INKY AND LOADED WITH BLACKBERRIES,THIS IS THE SECOND TIME I,VE MADE THIS KIT ,I MODIFIED IT JUST A LITTLE MORE WITH LBS. OF FRESH BLACKBERRIES IN THE PRIMARY WHAT A DIFFERENCE.FOLLOW THE FLOW.


----------



## joeswine

*Torrents the making of the kit*

this wine is outstanding if i could i'd make it in a heartbeat,follow the flow...
*TORRONTES*.THIS IS A WINE CRISP AND MINERALLY SEM-DRY WITH GOOD FRUIT AND MEDIMUN BODY LITE STRAW TO GOLDEN IN COLOR THIS IS A SIPLE WINE WITH A GREAT PAST.THE ONLT TWEAKS WILL BE ADDING LEMON ZEST TO THE SECONDARY ABOUT ½ OF A LEMON ENOUGH TO GIVE THE ACIDITY A BITE.


----------



## joeswine

*Basic wine chemistry*

*Basic Wine Chemistry *​ 
*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted. 
*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine. 
Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling. 
Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution. 
*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.


----------



## joeswine

*Coffee port*

​*Cru Coffee Port Kit*​*The box includes the following: *
· Large bag of juice
· 2 packs of Lavin EC-1118
· 1 Coffee Port F-Pack
· Package of bentonite
· Package of Metabisulphite
· Package of Potassium Sorbate
· Package of each Chitosan-D2 and kiesesol-D1(Fining Agents)

*Our additions:*
· Oak Tannin (Tannic Acid)
· Instant Coffee
· Spring Water

*Tools you will need:*
· Primary Fermenter (minimum 30 Litres/7.9 US gallons capacity)
· Long stirring spoon (Plastic or stainless steel)
· Measuring cup
· Hydrometer and test jar
· Thermometer
· Wine thief
· Siphon rod and hose 
· Carboy (3 US gallon capacity)
· Bung and Air lock
· Solid Bung (if you are bulk aging)
· Unscented winemaking detergent for cleaning (we recommend One-step or any other oxygenating cleaner, including Kmet....JUST NOT BLEACH!)
· Metabisulphite Powder for sanitizing 
· 15 wine bottles, 15 corks , 15 seals
· Corking machine (there are various types, we use an Italian floor corker.)

*The Process:*
· As always, sanitize anything that comes in contact with the wine. Including yourself. 
· Add the large juice package. (Be careful, it’s heavy!) Rinse this out with a little bit of spring water to make sure you get it all. 
· We have our bucket measured to 3 gallons. The kit didn’t quite come to 3 gallons so we topped up until we reach 3 gallons. 
· Add the bentonite and give it a good stir. 
· Then add the oak tannin, stir, and then take your SG reading. It should read 1.10. 
· We then took a PH test and it read 4.0. Typically, it should be around 3.5. 
· Finally, we pitched the yeast, made up a tag, and covered it up to rest. 

After it ferments dry: (Approx. 2 weeks)

After it fermented dry (SG: 0.98) we racked it into our secondary, 3 gallon fermentation carboy. 
We had to take out approx. 1.5 wine bottles of wine out of the carboy so that we will have room for the coffee F-pack. We set that aside with an air-lock. If when we rack the wine again and we come up short and have extra air-space, we will add it. 
We checked the ph of the wine and it is at 3.5 which is perfect for this type of port. 
We added the sorbate, K-met packet, and gave it a good stir. 
Next, we added packet #1 (of the 2 packet combination) of Kieselsol and set our time for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, we add packet #2 of Kieselsol and stirred again. (Learning tip: The reason for the 5 minute wait time is you are waiting for the molecules from packet #1 to bind to certain molecules in the wine. The second packet will bind to the molecules in the first packet and then the clearing process starts. (Positive and negative particles will attract, become heavy, and fall to the bottom of the carboy, taking the sediment with it.) 
Next, we added the Coffee F-Pak. Note: Not all of the F pack fit into my 3-gallon carboy. I should have taken out possibly 2 bottles of extra wine instead of 1.5. I put the extra F-pak in the refrigerator. When I rack this again to a final mixing bucket I will add everything to the bucket and give it a good stir.


----------



## joeswine

*Orchard breeze peach*

SOMETHING FOR THE SUMMER TIME AND NOT TO SWEET JUST A TASTE OF PEACH ,FOLLOW THE FLOW.................................................


----------



## joeswine

*Orchard breeze peach continued*

follow the flow ,fpacs are fun to add a touch of yourself to a kit or juice...


----------



## joeswine

*Building body into your wine*

TRY THIS WITH YOUR WHITES..ADDS A GREAT ACIDITY TO THE BALANCE....BEST IN THE PRIMARY WORKS WELL IN THE SECONDARY..


----------



## joeswine

*Super tuscan*

what can I say the king to some of the BIG REDS...follow the flow its a little long but hay, thats just me enjoy..


----------



## joeswine

*Super tuscan continued*

*SUPER TUSCANSuper Tuscans[edit]*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tignanello_BMK.jpg
_Tignanello_ one of the early Super Tuscans.
Super Tuscans are an unofficial category of Tuscan wines, not recognized within the Italian wine classification system. The origin of Super Tuscans is rooted in the restrictive DOC practices of the Chianti zone prior to the 1990s. During this time Chianti could be composed of no more than 70% Sangiovese and had to include at least 10% of one of the local white wine grapes. Producers who deviated from these regulations could not use the Chianti name on their wine labels and would be classified as _vino da tavola_ - Italy's lowest wine designation. By the 1970s, the consumer market for Chianti wines was suffering and the wines were widely perceived to be lacking quality. Many Tuscan wine producers thought they could produce a better quality wine if they were not hindered by the DOC regulations.[6]
The marchese Piero Antinori was one of the first to create a "Chianti-style" wine that ignored the DOC regulations, releasing a 1971 Sangiovese-Cabernet Sauvignon blend known as _Tignanello_ in 1978. Other producers followed suit and soon the prices for these Super Tuscans were consistently beating the prices of some of most well known Chianti. Rather than rely on name recognition of the Chianti region, the Super Tuscan producers sought to create a wine brand that would be recognizable on its own merits by consumers. By the late 1980s, the trend of creating high quality non-DOC wines had spread to other regions of Tuscany, as well as Piedmont and Veneto. Modification to the Chianti DOC regulation attempted to "correct" the issues of Super Tuscans, so that many of the original Super Tuscans would now qualify as standard DOC/G Chianti. Most producers have brought their Super Tuscans back under legal regulations, notably since the creation of the less restrictive IGT _Toscana_ designation in 1992 and the DOC Bolgheri Sassicaia designation in 1994.[6]
In addition to wines based on the Sangiovese grape, many well known Super Tuscans are based on a "Bordeaux-blend", meaning a combination of grapes typical for Bordeaux (esp. Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot). These grapes are not originally from the region, but imported and planted later. The climate in Tuscany has proven to be very good for these grapes. One of the first successful Super Tuscan based "Bordeaux-blend" was _Sassicaia_, by Tenuta San Guido, now classified as DOC Bolgheri.


----------



## joeswine

*tools in the tool box*

ALWAYS BE PREPARED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND HAVING THE CORRECT TOOLS ISN' ALWAYS POSSIBLE BUT HERE ARE A FEW YOU SHOULD HAVE..


----------



## joeswine

*Sangiovese the prince of italian reds*

ha yes the prince of Italian wines this is a long flow stay awake..................................


----------



## joeswine

*Sangiovese the prince of italian reds*

there's more to the flow...................... balance to follow..................
*Winexpert Sangiovese*​​Here is the beginning of the process. We are starting with an inexpensive wine kit from Wine Expert- World Vineyard. It's an Italian Sangiovese. My friend, Katie (Neviawen from the forum here) was here at my house to document the process for us all. I will include pictures throughout the making of this kit, as well as what we are going to do to take an inexpensive kit and make great wine from it. 

Step 1: We have acquired our kit, sanitized everything, and laid out all of our tools before we started. 

Step2: Added 1/2 gallon of hot water to my fermentation bucket and added bentonite. Stirred until no clumps. 

Step 3: Opened up the bag of "grape juice" and dumped into the bucket and stirred.

Step 4; Added 1/2 gal of spring water to the empty bag (where the juice came from, to rinse it out) and swished it around. Added that to the bucket and stirred. 

Step 5: Topped the bucket off w/ spring water to the 6 gallon mark and stirred more. 

Step 6: Took our specific gravity reading. Posted that on our hanging tag.

Step 7: Added 2 bags of oak chips and pitched the yeast. (sprinkled it on top, do not stir). 

Step 8: Cover the top of the bucket with a clean towel. This will prevent anything from falling into it. 

Then we wait 5-7 days. We will then move onto the next phase. 

*Next:*
Ok, today is 7 days from when we started this kit. We took our specific gravity reading and it is at 1.028. Slowly it's fermenting dry. 
I also put up a picture of what the bucket looks like right now. You can see there are some bubbles and oak chips floating on top. It smells great! Stay tuned- it will be going into the carboy for secondary fermentation soon.. 

*Next:*
Sorry this was so late getting posted. I had a few hectic weeks. I did manage to take the pictures to keep up with the process. Here we go- it’s getting interesting!

10 days after we started this kit, we checked the Specific Gravity and it is 1.000- it is almost dry. Now is when we add the raisons and powdered oak (wine tannin powder). We are using 1 pound of black raisons (you can use white raisons for white wines) and we are using 4 tbsp. of the powdered oak. 

Here is a picture of the powdered oak and raisons at the bottom of our carboy. 

For our demonstration we are using the auto-syphon instead of my wine pump. This is the most basic tool for this job and is what most beginner home winemakers have handy. Transferring the wine from the primary fermentation bucket to the carboy helps to degas the wine. 

When you get to the bottom of the bucket when syphoning, you can use wedges to prop up one end of the bucket. This helps you get the most out of your wine. 

We now have our wine in the 6 gallon carboy. Let’s stir it up good to get all the raisons and powdered oak mixed well. This also will help degas more. 

We are using a 6 gallon carboy but only have a 5 gallon batch of wine. I am filling the remaining 1 gallon of headspace with Nitrogen.Once this is racked again it will go into a 5 gallon carboy. 

As always, we write our latest specific gravity reading on our tag and hang it on the carboy.

Cover the carboy up with a towel to keep light out. 

*Next:*
Sangiovese Update: My oh My! It's tasty so far!
Here's our observation: 
There was a heavy body to it, medium tanins, nice bite and a zing of acidity. It will be a good wine when aged. 
Here's a few pictures. But first, let's explain what were looking at. 
There are 3 pictures here. One the side of the glass in the pictures you will notice a "clear smear". This is what we call the wine's "legs". Having these when you tip a glass of wine indicates that the wine has good body and alchohol content. 
Next, you will notice the "age line". This is the line that is between the surface of the wine and the distance to the color of the wine. The smaller this line is, the longer your wine has aged. You will see in our pictures that this wine is still very young yet the ring is close. That is the difference in a kit; they are made to age quick so you can drink them faster. 

*Final step to our Sangiovese kit: Bottling!
*


Before we started, we got all the tools out of our toolbox that we would need. We also sanitized all our bottles and had them ready.
What we had ready before we started:
Sanitized Bottles
Funnel
Ferrari Bottle Filler
Long Stirring wand
seals
corks
Packets of Sorbate and K-Met that came with the kit
my bottle sealing tool (don't know what it's called but it holds the seal on top the bottle while I dip it into boiling water), notice we didn't filter, that's because we racked down to clear.

Next, we dumped the 2 packets of ingredients into the carboy and gave it a stir w/ the wand (I didn't take a picture of this, you all know how to just give it a stir.)

I then placed the Ferrari bottling tool on top of an empty bottle, put the larger hose into the carboy and applied suction to the smaller hose to start the syphon. Once the wine starts to flow I place this smaller hose into an empty bottle just so it's out of the way. 

What is great about this tool is that once a bottle is full it automatically stops the wine flow so that it doesn't overflow. You will see that it gets to a certain level in the little chamber and then it stops filling. When this happens you put the Ferrari tool into the next bottle and proceed. 

When you have all bottles filled, you cork them. Once they are corked you seal them.

Fit the seal over the bottle, I use a tool that holds the seal on top the bottle for me as I dip them into boiling water. I dip it in, give it one twist real quick and pull it out. (Literally takes 2 seconds and it's sealed.)


----------



## joeswine

SANGIOVESE THE PRINCE OF ITALIAN WINES ,THIS ONE'S LONG IN THE MAKING BUT BOLD ON TASTE STAY WITH THE FLOW ASK AWAY IF YOU WANT.


----------



## joeswine

PHASE #2.


----------



## joeswine

phase #3....follow the flow


----------



## joeswine

phase#4..said it would be long one but worth the read...follow the flow


----------



## joeswine

phase #5 almost t the end are you still awake?


----------



## joeswine

WINE MAKING SEASON IS AROUND THE CORNER SO LETS DO A FUN SUMMER PEACH WINE KIT,FOLLOW THE FLOW,,


----------



## joeswine

OK LETS TRY POSTING PICS AGAIN


----------



## joeswine

STILL A LITTLE MORE TO GO,STAY AWAKE...


----------



## joeswine

JUST A LITTLE MORE TO GO............................


----------



## joeswine

JUST A LITTEL MORE TO GO................


----------



## joeswine

CAROL'S BASIC RIESLING NOTHING FANCY FOLLOW THE FLOW AND YOU CAN'T LOOSE.


----------



## joeswine

BALANCE TO FOLLOW ,I'M MAKING 6 BASIC WINE'S FOR HER SOME ROOM TO PLAY AROUND WITH BUT TIME IS IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT THIS KIT HAS IT ALL FOR @ 52.00 ....LABELS,CORKS AND SEALS AT A FULL 6 GALLON MARK AT LEAST FOR THIS WHITE,YOU CAN'T LOOSE FOR A DECENT EVERYDAY WHITE WINE ..


----------



## joeswine

lets take a look at the Prince of Italian wine Sangiovese,,this is my process and it's long but the outcome was excellent follow the flow it will come to you in phases ...easier to take in...


----------



## joeswine

follow the flow.....................


----------



## joeswine

keep on going ......................


----------



## joeswine

lots of work lots of components to work into the full process...


----------



## joeswine

now were at the end....nice product .


----------



## joeswine

SHARAZ /VIOGNIER IS AN ABSOLUTE GREAT PAIRRING WHEN FINISHED AND ALLOW TO *AGE 6 TO MOS. TO A YEAR* BECOMES UNTO ITSELF A ROBUST DEEP RED WITH VIOGNIER OVER TONES


----------



## joeswine

PHASE 2 ,SHIRAZ /VIOGNIER IS A GOOD COMPLEMENT TO ANYONES WINE COLLECTS ,FOLLOW THE FLOW


----------



## joeswine

3RD AND FINAL PHASE.................


----------



## joeswine

something different in the air................nice addition to any red especially cheap kits it did a nice job on Kates Sangiovese/ chianti BLEND


----------



## joeswine

LETS DO SOMETHING A LIITTLE DIFFERENT,ONE GALLON KITS CANBE A VERY INTERRESTING ADDITION TO A CHEAP KIT OR ANY KIT FOR THAT MATTER .THINK OUT THE POSSIBILITES


----------



## joeswine

PHASE 2.....FOLLOW TO THE END AND KEEP AND OPEN MIND EVEN A HIGH END KIT COULD BE ENHANCED WITH DIFFERENT BLE
NDS..THINK OF IT!


----------



## joeswine

MOVING TOWARDS THE ENDPHASE 3...FOLLOW THE FLOW


----------



## joeswine

HOW ABOUT A NICE SUMMER WHITE BLEND EASY TO DO AND FUN TO DRINK...FOLLOW THE FLOW....FIRST THE FPAC FOR MY GREEN APPLE RIESLING SMOOTH AND TASTY SEVERED NICE AND CHILLED.


----------



## joeswine

PHASE 3 OF MY GREEN APPLE RIESLING..........THE FPAC MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE AND A SLIT BOOST IN THE ABV. MAKES IT A WINE..


----------



## joeswine

THERE'S ALOT TO THIS ONE .....


----------



## joeswine

FOLLOW THE FLOW BOTTLING TIME


----------



## joeswine

OPENNED UP ONE OF THESE TONIGHT AND THE TAST WAS REWARDING....


----------



## joeswine

PHASE #2................THIS ONES A METAL WINNER IN 2019 YOU'LL SEE.....................


----------



## joeswine

THERE'S MORE TO THE FLOW....STAY TOONED


----------



## joeswine

let s do something on the peachy side of the house, with a Orchard BREEZES KIT..


----------



## joeswine

pHASE #2... NOW WE CAN BE CREATIVE ,REMEMBER WHAT I SAID ABOUT PARTENERSHIPS WINE THE WINES PROFILE...??


----------



## joeswine

lots to do when blending parts together ,remember always have a plan ,then work it.


----------



## joeswine

just finished my second bottling of sanginovese this time I added just a touch of raspberries . I'm now in the finial stages before bottling..


----------



## joeswine

how about a little Spanish wine ..I've growing a fondness for the wines coming out of Spain having taken a trip there and only got to visit one winery ,let go back in time and share my trip.


----------



## joeswine

something different come's my way...I really grown a fondness for Spanish wines this ones no different now that I've completed this I would and should have bought two kit. Additions were tweaked up the ABV. and added a full cup of raisins to the sock in the primary. The finish on the final racking was spot on, excellent and with in the first year of aging in the bottle it should be superb.


----------



## joeswine

phase #2.... don't be afraid to think out side the box even on the high priced ones..


----------



## Syrah-volution!

Joe, in the picture of your carboy there seems to be quite a lot of space in there. Did you have any problem with oxidation?


----------



## joeswine

No I use and have always use nitrogen as a space filler always keeping the air lock ( bubble) on the proper side. Also when I can I also rack down, what ever volume it take.
This finish is as spot on as a finished wine can be, really
What your lókibg at is the finished racking,oñce from primary then two week wait racked again (2 week wait) then into final stages .


----------



## jpwatkins9

Just go to your local wine store and buy a can of wine keeper gas (Nitrogen and Argon), or also available from Amazon. A can goes a long way.


----------



## joeswine

*Rose'* have not always been a favorite of mine with time taste buds changed and _technique_ does also here's my twist on* Rose' wine for the summer.*


----------



## joeswine

Phase #2.........the *fpac* is what makes the difference in this one ,it now becomes a wine with a *dual personality*.


----------



## joeswine

OK LETS MOVE ON............................


----------



## joeswine

Still a ways to go.... there's a lot of steps to making a good wine just as many in making a bad wine, so I say to you *Plan your work then work your plan* and if your not sure _ASK_>>>


----------



## joeswine

how about a PINK Muscato


----------



## joeswine

have e a glass.


----------



## gsf77

joeswine said:


> have e a glass.


That looks good, nice job


----------



## joeswine

THINK BASICS................................


----------



## joeswine

BALANCE TO FOLLOW ,KNOWNING HOW TO USE ZEST IS FUN AND REWARDING. IT LETS YOU BE THE WINEMAKER..


----------



## joeswine

MAKING SIMPLE SYURP IT'S EASY AND A IMPORTANT TOOL IN YOUR TOOL BOX..


----------



## joeswine

Basic wine chemistry.....
*Basic Wine Chemistry *




*Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted.

*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine.

Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling.

Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution.

*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.


----------



## sour_grapes

Fixed it for you:

"When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, p̶o̶t̶a̶s̶s̶i̶u̶m̶ ̶s̶o̶r̶b̶a̶t̶e̶the few remaining yeast will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation."


----------



## joeswine

Thanks, I was corrected before but forgot what I was supposed to correct,old people.


----------



## joeswine

something for the PORT people..... this one took a best of show in CELLARMASTERS..and HAMMONTON


----------



## joeswine

PHASE #2...........................


----------



## joeswine

coffee port a good taste for anytime of the day..follow the flow the real trick here is the instant coffee...


----------



## joeswine

Tools Of The Trade.......................................


----------



## joeswine

Pear wine,, summers coming and fruit wine are at their best .I like pears and Walkers makes the best fruit juice bar none. Here we go short but sweet.
PHASE#1....


----------



## joeswine

PHASE#2...................... you can follow the same process using *Cranberry *juice from Walkers


----------



## joeswine

MAKING A FPAC>>>>>>fun easy and you can make it now and freeze it for the winters wine making,.


----------



## sour_grapes

bumping for my convenience


----------



## joeswine

SPANISH ROSE".....follow the flow don't be afraid to blend yeasts.


----------



## joeswine

AND THE FINISH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## Brian55

joeswine said:


> SPANISH ROSE".....follow the flow don't be afraid to blend yeasts.


The first picture doesn't match the rest. It's of the Macabeo kit, not the Rose.


----------



## vineyarddog

why don’t Rose kits ever come out this color??


----------



## joeswine

Oh well , it most have wanted to visit  that one finished also just fine.


----------



## joeswine

I've made a lot of wine over 30 years, and a ton and I mean a ton ok kits , they've allow me to learn , create and understand the wine making process as well as learning the science and art of the Craft , I've learned most of all being a successful wine maker is to have fun with this hobby.


----------



## Kraffty

Hi Joe, got a question on a Orchard Mist kit, first time I've done one. I've upped the SG to 1.08 and after 4 days its dropped to 1.032. Instructions call for 14 days in primary, I'm guessing I'll be at 1.00 by Monday (8 days). Can you think of a good reason to let it sit in the primary after reaching 1.00? I'm thinking of moving to the carboy and maybe adding a tablespoon of orange zest at that time, the kit is the Seville Orange Sangria.
Thanks,


----------



## joeswine

I've found it's always better to move wine from the primary to the secondary with still some work to do, ( gassing off) I let the wine set for a week and gently shake it on occasion and yes you can add the ZEST . ( usually zest goes in the primary) for a week. Before adding the Chems..
Just did the white Sangria  getting ready to bottle.


----------



## sour_grapes

bumping for my convenience


----------



## joeswine

COFFEE PORT ,one of my favorite port kits with a twist.


----------



## joeswine

PHASE#2......for this kit to come through it needs to sit bottled or barreled for at least *one year*, then enjoy. I preferred bottled then you can see the progression of this port as it matures.


----------



## joeswine

THE FINISH...


----------



## joeswine

Took Best Of Show in the desert wine category


----------



## joeswine

something different comes your way??? This one is a real winner just watch. it has it all color aroma,taste and a great body do to the addition of fresh peaches in the primary..


----------



## joeswine

My space hasn.t changed much over the years.


----------



## joeswine

* A Zesting we will go*, be creative in your wine making thought and styles.. use fresh fruit and different enhancements to make it your wine special.


----------



## joeswine

Something white comes your way


----------



## joeswine

Phase #2


----------



## joeswine

something a little* Italian *maybe?? the taste at the finish is clean and crisp/


----------



## joeswine

A taste of Italy. Crisp a and well balanced with the acidity of the zest added.


----------



## joeswine

My SPACE... no place like home.


----------



## joeswine

Blackcurrant is one of my favorite fruit wines hard to find fresh, wonderful at any cost. learning to use extracts is the KEY>


----------



## joeswine

Phase#2...................loge process but worth the effort.


----------



## joeswine

PHASE#3......just a little more


----------



## joeswine

Making* simple syrup* is a very important tool in your wine toolbox, sealed correctly it lasts* a long time.*


----------



## Khristyjeff

Timely post. I had a mess up last night as I tried simple syrup without referring to my notes. I boiled it too long and it became thick, then when I added it to the cool carboy it turned into rock candy. I quickly re-racked to another carboy so I didn't have to dwell on my mistake too long! My second batch of simple syrup worked well so all is good now. Bottling the peach wine today.


----------



## joeswine

Thinking outside the box is fun ,having all the tools of the cellar dwellers craft is  cool.knowing how to use them comes with time


----------



## joeswine

Here are some of the tools needed.


----------



## joeswine

creating extracts is fun and an excellent way of adding or making a cello of all varieties.


----------



## Bmd2k1

Curious if anyone's done any tweaking to their Malbecs?

I'm gonna be firing up an RJS Cru International Chilean Malbec early June and contemplating what, if any, additions (other than fermentation and bulk aging Oak I'll be adding).

Cheers!


----------



## joeswine

You could add , tannins, sauté blackberries 16ozs. To the primary , in th he secondary a teas spoon of tannns again .


----------



## Khristyjeff

I did a Wine Lovers Malbec Medium Bodied (11.5%) shorted to 5 gallons, added 1 Cup of Zante Currants, 1 T of tannins, and 1 Cup of French oak in primary. Target was 13% ABV which I may have overshot by a little, but it was very tasty early. I don't believe I would short the water on an RJS International offering but the other additions could be nice.


----------



## joeswine

Let your hydrometer be your guide, bring up the Abv to your standards,.
It’s your wine 13% is nice


----------



## joeswine

What's
for DESSERT???? Carmel Port it's a winner


----------



## Bmd2k1

joeswine said:


> What'sView attachment 92459
> for DESSERT???? Carmel Port it's a winner


Congrats Joe!


----------



## She’sgonnakillme

Is it just my cell phone or are all these pics blurry? Maybe it's my cell


----------



## Jim Welch

She’sgonnakillme said:


> Is it just my cell phone or are all these pics blurry? Maybe it's my cell


They’re blurry on my phone too, but when I tap on them individually they load in focus.


----------



## joeswine

something from Spain


----------



## joeswine

something from SPAIN


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## joeswine

HERE’S MY TAKE ON BLENDING, THE FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS TO ESTABLISH WHAT IT IS IN A TASTE PROFILE, YOUR TRING TO ACCOMPLISH AND WHAT TYPE OF FINISH YOU WANT YOU’RE PROFILE TO HAVE.

NOW THAT YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED THE PROFILE AND FINISH LOOK FOR BLENDS THAT REALLY GO WELL TOGETHER, THAT MAKES WINE BLENDING A WHOLE LOT EASIER.

EX: MAKING A CAB AND MERLOT BLEND IS EASY RIGHT! BUT IF YOU’RE A KIT PERSON NOT SO. A WINEMAKER WHO USES GRAPE AND OR FRESH JUICE HAS THE ADVANTAGE OVER US, WHAT TO DO? *UNDERSTAND? SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO KNOW AND HOW DO WE GET THERE.

BLENDING CONSIST OF A TWO DIFFERENT WINES OR MORE HAVING SOME OF THE SAME CHARISTERICTS YET DIFFERENT ENOUGH IN THE BLEND TO STANDOUT ON ITS OWN IN RESPECT TO THE OTHERS ROLL IN THE MIX.USUALY THIS IS ALL DONE AFTER THE WINES ARE COMPLETED AND READY FOR BOTTLING.*

KIT MAKERS CAN DO ALL THE SAME MOVES ONLY GOING DOWN A VERY DIFFERENT AVENUE, IF YOU THINK OF ALL THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE. WE HAVE THE BASIC CONCENTRATES TO WORK WITH AND DEPENDING ON THE VALUE OF THE KIT A LARGER AMOUNT OF VERITAL JUICE THEN CONCENTRATE,ADDING FRESH MADE FPACS TO THE BASE OR ZEST TO THE SECONDARY ALONG WITH THE ADDED AMOUNTS OF OAK,OAK DUST AND TANNINS ADDED ALL ALONG THE WAY. OUR VOLUMNES ARE SMALL ENOUGH TO TAKE CORRECTIVE ACTION AS LONG AS WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE BASIC WINE RULES AND SANATATION THAT’S REQUIRED,WE CAN CHANGE PERTTY MUCH ON A DIME AND DO WHAT IS NECESSARY TO OUR PRODUCT.

LET SAY I WAS GOING TO MAKE A BLACKBERRY PINO NIOR,THE FIRST QUESTION I ASK IS WHATS THE PRIMARY FLAVOR AND WHATS THE SECONDARY.DEPENDING ON WHAT PROFILE I WANT THE WINE TO HAVE (TASTE) WILL LET ME KNOW WHO IS THE LEADER IN THIS DANCE, THE PINO OR THE BLACKBERRY,IF I USE THE PINO AS THE BASE AND THE BLACKBERRY FPAC IN THE PRIMARY THEN THE BLEND SHOULD BE A PARTENERSHIP OF FLAVORS,IF I USE THE PINO AS MY BASE AND THE BERRIES IN THE SECONDARY THEN THE BERRIES BECOME THE BACKGROUND.

*I want to make a pinot Gris, from California and wanted to create crispness and a better bite to the wines finish, I would finish out the wine making sure I first had good abv. At the finish then either in the secondary or as a closing step a couple of weeks before bottling I would add the zest of 1 grapefruit or lemon to the wine and allow it two sit to infuse its acidity and freshness to the wine, then rack and bottle.*

*Making your own fpac from fresh grapes whenever and where ever you find them adds a better mouthfeel to the finish.*

There are a lot of different ways kit winemakers can infuse, enhance and create our wines to have a touch of our own hand in the making but you must take the time to *plan your work and work your plan*, and always think outside the box.


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## joeswine

*basic Wine Chemistry *​
* 

Chaptalization* is the process of adding sugar to unfermented grape developed by the French chemist Jean-Antoine-Claude Chaptal, for whom it was named. Contrary to popular belief, this process does not make the wine sweeter but only artificially inflates the alcohol content. Additionally, the sugar in chaptalized wine cannot be tasted.

*Potassium Metabisulfite* is a common wine or must additive, where it forms sulfur dioxide gas (SO2). This both prevents most wild microorganisms from growing, and it acts as potent antioxidant, protecting both the color, and delicate flavors of wine.

Typical dosage is ¼ tsp potassium metabisulfite, per 6 gallon bucket of must (yielding roughly 75ppm of SO2) prior to fermentation, and ½ tsp per 6 gallon bucket (150 ppm of SO2) at bottling.

Winemaking equipment is sanitized by spraying with a 1% SO2 (2 tsp potassium metabisulfite per L) solution.

*Potassium Sorbate* is used to inhibit molds, and yeasts in wine. Also known affectionately as “wine stabilizer”, potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, will continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent re fermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines and some hard cider but may be added to table wines which exhibits difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.


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