# Cherry wine



## geek

My wife got 10 lbs of frozen pitted cherries and are getting thawed now.

Never made such a wine and looking for suggestions, 3gal batch maybe? A 6gal batch may be too diluted unless I get some frozen fruits from Costco to make a mix.

Yeast type, desired starting SG, etc.


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## Scooter68

Sweet or tart Cherries? For sweet I would use at about 6-7 lbs and a little water as possible for a 1 gallon batch. 3 Gallons would be too think I suspect unless they are really ripe, sweet and Loaded with flavor. You might stretch and get 2 gallons from 10lbs.


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## geek

Good question, never dealt with cherries before and the bag says "RTP Cherries", Googled that and it seems like Red Tart Pitted cherries.

I'm gonna open a bag on a side and taste one.


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## geek

yep, tart


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## Tnuscan

geek said:


> yep, tart



It's not a bad thing that they are tart, many feel they make the better wine.


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## geek

I put them back in the freezer until I make a decision.


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## Arne

According to my old notes, in 2012 used 20 lb. pitted cherries to 5 gal. water. 2013 used 28 lb. cherries to 8 gal. water, and 40 lb. cherries to 10 gal. water. All of them came out with decent flavor as I remember. Have a few bottles left and they still taste great. Arne.


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## RaginCajun

Tart cherries make excellent wine, it's the most raved about of the types of wine I make but I've only made 10 or so batches so I'm still a newbie. I use:
15 lb sour cherries, 5 gal water, 11 lb sugar, acid blend, pectin enzyme, nutrient and yeast. I still don't know how different yeast affects the wine so I used Red Star Montrachet yeast. Back sweetened with 3/4c per gallon. Yielded 28 bottles of yumminess!

Good luck!


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## geek

Thanks guys, that gives me an overall park idea on what to do.
So I'm thinking to add a couple lbs of frozen berry mix from Costco to increase the fruit a bit, then water to 5gal.

I only have QA23 and a lot of EC-1118 yeast as of now though.


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## Scooter68

You know when all you have is tart cherries - they seem to taste pretty 'sweet.' Over the years our sweet cherry trees have either not produced at all or the birds ate ALL the cherries before I got a chance at them. So I've been stuck with the cherries from our one Montmorecy Pie Cherry tree. When those get really ripe there is a lot of sweetness to them. In fact , just a personal thing here, I find the tartness of a good fresh pie cherry more enjoyable the taste of a red wine. But that's just me.

So go for it and be a purist - stick with just the cherry flavor for now. Buy some Tart Cherry Juice to add if you need it.


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## dcbrown73

I bought one of the Vinter's Best 128oz bottles that make 5 gallons. I bought 12lbs of cherries to get the last gallon for a six gallon batch.

I've got to say. It's got a lot more cherry punch than the three other cherry wines I've tasted. So much so that I'm looking at possibly making half of it into a Cherry Chocolate Port.

Good luck with it. Keep us updated on it.


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## hounddawg

To me tart only way to go, I like mine at least 5 to 6lbs to the gallon, with ten pounds I do a gallon bulk a year, back sweeten to below taste, bottles let age one more year, I got a few batches is sour cherry bbulk aging but plan this fall to do a batch with double the fruit. Or 10 to 12lbs to the gallon just for chits an grins, but I'm an odd one indeed but I love good country wines, never done real wines grapes or kits just country wines from scratch for a poor ole country boy,, whom has become unwantedly popular in my area, I used to strive for under 30 gallon a year now with not a bottle in months have 80 gallons aging 20 more fermenting and going for another 70 or 80 before the years out, 
I think 200 is max in my area, but hech I only needed 28 for a bottle a day per year any a touch for company, where did I go wrong,
Dawg





QUOTE=geek;638644]My wife got 10 lbs of frozen pitted cherries and are getting thawed now.

Never made such a wine and looking for suggestions, 3gal batch maybe? A 6gal batch may be too diluted unless I get some frozen fruits from Costco to make a mix.

Yeast type, desired starting SG, etc.[/QUOTE]


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## geek

dcbrown73 said:


> I bought one of the Vinter's Best 128oz bottles that make 5 gallons. I bought 12lbs of cherries to get the last gallon for a six gallon batch.
> 
> I've got to say. It's got a lot more cherry punch than the three other cherry wines I've tasted. So much so that I'm looking at possibly making half of it into a Cherry Chocolate Port.
> 
> Good luck with it. Keep us updated on it.



One of this?

http://labelpeelers.com/wine-making/fruit-purees/vintners-harvest-tart-cherry-puree-49-oz/


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## geek

dcbrown73 said:


> I bought one of the Vinter's Best 128oz bottles that make 5 gallons. I bought 12lbs of cherries to get the last gallon for a six gallon batch.
> 
> I've got to say. It's got a lot more cherry punch than the three other cherry wines I've tasted. So much so that I'm looking at possibly making half of it into a Cherry Chocolate Port.
> 
> Good luck with it. Keep us updated on it.



I think this may be what you referenced:

http://labelpeelers.com/wine-making/fruit-wine-base/vintners-best-cherry-fruit-wine-base-128-oz/

.


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## dcbrown73

geek said:


> I think this may be what you referenced:
> 
> http://labelpeelers.com/wine-making/fruit-wine-base/vintners-best-cherry-fruit-wine-base-128-oz/
> 
> .



Yep, that's the one I used. I was told the cans are being phased out, but I talked to my local brew story and he said that they aren't. Only a few flavors are being phased out due to not selling well.

Right now I do not know what to believe hah. LP or local brew shop!


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## geek

dcbrown73 said:


> Yep, that's the one I used. I was told the cans are being phased out, but I talked to my local brew story and he said that they aren't. Only a few flavors are being phased out due to not selling well.
> 
> Right now I do not know what to believe hah. LP or local brew shop!



How much did you back sweeten yours and age for how long?


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## Scooter68

Vintner's Best - A blend of juices 

Vintners Harvest is 100% the fruit pictured on the label. 

The Vintner's Best products contain other juices such as Apple, Grape and Pear. So you are not getting a 128 oz bottle of Cherry Juice, or BlueBerry, it is a blend. That's fine as long as you realize that. I haven't compared costs but I do know that Apple and Grape juices are less expensive than a number of the other juices like Cherry and Blueberry. Again as long as folks know that it fine.


This is from the Vintner's Best Cherry 128oz bottle: Ingredient List : High Fructose Corn Syrup; Apple, Pear, Cherry & Grape Juice Concentrates; Water;
Citric Acid; Natural Flavors.


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## dcbrown73

geek said:


> How much did you back sweeten yours and age for how long?



As of right now, I've added about I believe (2) 32oz bottles of Welches Black Cherry Concord Grape Juice to top up the cherry wine. That is the only sweetening I've done. 

Early on, I was sure I was going to have to, but the bitterness and roughness has already started dropping. It was starting to taste as if it wouldn't require much more if any. I'm hoping anyhow. It's probably been a bit over a month since I last tasted. I planned on trying it again once I'm ready to rack again in about two months.

As for aging. I just started late Nov, early Dec. If I split it (half wine and half port) I was hoping end of year festivities would be a good time to open them.


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## dcbrown73

Scooter68 said:


> Vintner's Best - A blend of juices
> 
> Vintners Harvest is 100% the fruit pictured on the label.
> 
> The Vintner's Best products contain other juices such as Apple, Grape and Pear. So you are not getting a 128 oz bottle of Cherry Juice, or BlueBerry, it is a blend. That's fine as long as you realize that. I haven't compared costs but I do know that Apple and Grape juices are less expensive than a number of the other juices like Cherry and Blueberry. Again as long as folks know that it fine.
> 
> 
> This is from the Vintner's Best Cherry 128oz bottle: Ingredient List : High Fructose Corn Syrup; Apple, Pear, Cherry & Grape Juice Concentrates; Water;
> Citric Acid; Natural Flavors.



My intent was to get the Harvest, but I was told they were eliminating that one and the Best was it's replacement. Clearly that was not true from what I hear now.


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## Scooter68

Sad that someone had to mislead you on that. I've been looking at buying enough Tart Cherry Concentrate to make a 2-3 gallon batch. The Vintner's Harvest (VH) and Vintner's Best (VB) are both Sweet Cherry Juices and after making my batch of Black Currant Wine last year (VH) I love that tartness. The VH Black Currant juice was of course sweet but the tartness was still quite strong. 

Still looking into the Tart Cherry Concentrates trying to figure out the best prices and most concentrated, Some list 1 oz as having 70-80 calories (All from the natural sugar of course) and some state that 1 oz has 110-120 calories. All are from Tart Cherries not Sweet Cherry varieties.


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## geek

@Scooter68
Since those Vintner's Harvest come both in sweet and tart cherry, I was wondering if getting the sweet cherry puree container instead of the tart cherry....to mix it up...

And I guess 2 containers (49oz each) should do it to combine with the 10lbs of tart cherry in the freezer.


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## Tnuscan

geek said:


> @Scooter68
> Since those Vintner's Harvest come both in sweet and tart cherry, I was wondering if getting the sweet cherry puree container instead of the tart cherry....to mix it up...
> 
> And I guess 2 containers (49oz each) should do it to combine with the 10lbs of tart cherry in the freezer.



I would give it a go, watch as you are adding and working on the must. Shoot for a pH of 3.4 and a TA between 5 and 6 g/L . SG around 1.085, if the TA is a little high, or if you just want to soften it a little use 71b-1122.

Keep us informed!


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## Scooter68

Haven't made any Cherry Wine yet. Closest thing was my "Marinated" Montmorency Cherries. 2 cups of Montmorencies (Tart) in a 2 cups of Vodka. Mashed and mascerated for 6 weeks. WOAH! Only a shot glass at a time for me.


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## Tnuscan

Tnuscan said:


> I would give it a go, watch as you are adding and working on the must. Shoot for a pH of 3.4 and a TA between 5 and 6 g/L . SG around 1.085, if the TA is a little high, or if you just want to soften it a little use 71b-1122.
> 
> Keep us informed!



@geek That TA was for a dry wine most folks like to sweeten fruit wines a little. If your planning on sweeting then total acidity would be 6.5 to 8.g/L. 

So if you were taking it to like 1.005 to 1.010 backsweeting you might like the total acidity to be more like 7 to 8 g/L.


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## Scooter68

geek said:


> @Scooter68
> Since those Vintner's Harvest come both in sweet and tart cherry, I was wondering if getting the sweet cherry puree container instead of the tart cherry....to mix it up...
> 
> And I guess 2 containers (49oz each) should do it to combine with the 10lbs of tart cherry in the freezer.



Not sure where you find a Vintner's Harvest Tart cherry variety. Both the puree and the fruit bases I found on their site are sweet cherry. Lambert is a sweet variety (Type in their Fruit Base) and the other does not say which variety but the label says Sweet Cherry Puree. *WHOOPS! Just found their Tart Cherry Puree - not listed on many sites so I had to actually search carefully to find it. My apologies.*

I'm still looking at the options for this. Not sure I want to dive into a 5 gallon batch at the prices for Cherries or the Cherry concentrates. Did find one for the brave souls Shoreline Fruit has 68 Brix concentrate for $44.00 a gallon but they have 2 pail minimum and that's 10 Gallons - $440.00 plus shipping.


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## geek

I just bought 2 cans of this specific sweet cherry puree at LP:

http://labelpeelers.com/vintners-harvest-sweet-cherry-puree-49-oz/

Will mix with my 10lbs I got in the freezer and will use Montrachet red star yeast. Let's see what/how this turns out....

Will water to 5 1/2 gallons and based on SG I will take it from there. The goal is 5gal of wine.


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## Tnuscan

The last time, I made this, I used* Vintners Harvest* 96oz Fruit base,_ it had Lambert cherries_. This had actual cherries and juice. The instructions say you can make a three or five gallon batch. Instead* use 2 cans and make a 5 gallon batch*, even add extra cherries if you like, it will make a better wine. 

I used the puree once, and didn't care as much for it, seems like I made a gallon. Didn't use cherries either, that may have been the reason, just can't remember now.. Actually fresh fruit is better, with little to no water. 


The newer plastic containers_(that my LHBS started carring_) are 128oz, you simlpy add water to these. These fruit bases*(Vintners Best a different company)* will have low pH's like the Raspberry I just checked had a 3.01 pH and 8.4 g/L TA. My wife doesn't like dry wine, but said "the raspberry's not that bad."

The Black Currant had a 3.15 pH and a 8.7 g/L TA. These are a year old, and will probably age quite a few years if desired. I don't sweeten these and everyone loves them.

You may like your cherry wine with a lower pH than what I suggested in a earlier post. If so while it's aging in the carboy you could do a couple of bench tests with citric and malic acid and dial it in.

1.0 g/L addition of Citric acid will increase the TA by about 1.17 g/L and will decrease the pH by 0.08 pH units.

1.0 g/L addition of Malic acid will increase the TA by about 1.12 g/L and will decrease the pH by 0.08 pH units.

When you find the sweet spot,  , add it to the carboy, sit it in a cold dark corner, let it age a bit and enjoy the fruit of your labor.


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## Scooter68

Well, I'm going to start a batch of Tart Cherry Wine as soon as it warms up a bit. Just ordered 4 x 16 oz bottles of Tart Cherry Juice concentrate. Per their instructions 1 oz = 2 cups of cherries so that would translate into about 16 lbs of cherries in a single bottle of concentrate. WOW! So I guess being liberal at 10 lbs per gallon 4 bottles should ??? make 6 gallons of wine? I recently purchase 3 x 3 gallon carboys so I can split this into 2 x 3 gallon batches to let me check out the concentration before all is invested in one batch. I'm a little wary of buying into the concentration as well so that's my reason for splitting into 2 batches.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. Just ordered and I've go about 2 weeks before it arrives (Cheap free slow shipping) so there's no big rush. 

Oh yeah price was $9.95 / 16 oz which is a less than any other sources I've found.


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## Tnuscan

Scooter68 said:


> Well, I'm going to start a batch of Tart Cherry Wine as soon as it warms up a bit. Just ordered 4 x 16 oz bottles of Tart Cherry Juice concentrate. Per their instructions 1 oz = 2 cups of cherries so that would translate into about 16 lbs of cherries in a single bottle of concentrate. WOW! So I guess being liberal at 10 lbs per gallon 4 bottles should ??? make 6 gallons of wine? I recently purchase 3 x 3 gallon carboys so I can split this into 2 x 3 gallon batches to let me check out the concentration before all is invested in one batch. I'm a little wary of buying into the concentration as well so that's my reason for splitting into 2 batches.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. Just ordered and I've go about 2 weeks before it arrives (Cheap free slow shipping) so there's no big rush.
> 
> Oh yeah price was $9.95 / 16 oz which is a less than any other sources I've found.



@Scooter68 Like this or similar?
http://www.puritan.com/black-cherry...ntrate&gclid=CPKW4ermtdICFVgkgQodutAKxw&mvc=1


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## geek

Scooter68 said:


> Well, I'm going to start a batch of Tart Cherry Wine as soon as it warms up a bit. Just ordered 4 x 16 oz bottles of Tart Cherry Juice concentrate. Per their instructions 1 oz = 2 cups of cherries so that would translate into about 16 lbs of cherries in a single bottle of concentrate. WOW! So I guess being liberal at 10 lbs per gallon 4 bottles should ??? make 6 gallons of wine? I recently purchase 3 x 3 gallon carboys so I can split this into 2 x 3 gallon batches to let me check out the concentration before all is invested in one batch. I'm a little wary of buying into the concentration as well so that's my reason for splitting into 2 batches.
> 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. Just ordered and I've go about 2 weeks before it arrives (Cheap free slow shipping) so there's no big rush.
> 
> Oh yeah price was $9.95 / 16 oz which is a less than any other sources I've found.



Where did you order from?


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## Scooter68

Here's the advertisment - ordered just before I posted here and just got word it has shipped: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CO9PHB6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The Puritan you posted is a black cherry. I saw a lot of prices from $12.xx and up so this was a good bit lower. Also checked out the VH Tart Cherry Puree (49 oz) and that's a 68 Brix which is a little about a 1-3 concentration so that would yield little over a gallon per can where this should be closer to 1.5 gallons per bottle for a lot less, even if I have to add in sugar I'm still better off than the lowest price for the VH I found at about $19.00 / can plus shipping. (And the puree is going to throw a lot of lees too.)


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## kevinlfifer

I added 8 lbs of cherries to a SP batch. Worked great


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## Troll

Started a Vintners best and so far the flavor is good. One thing to remember looking at labels is the list order by volumes max to min but they do not list how concentrated the concentrates are. All you can really go by is it is a blend of juices and the final taste.


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## Scooter68

Troll said:


> Started a Vintners best and so far the flavor is good. One thing to remember looking at labels is the list order by volumes max to min but they do not list how concentrated the concentrates are. All you can really go by is it is a blend of juices and the final taste.




I agree - final taste is what matters most. I just opened a bottle of my second batch of blackberry wine. This second one was back-sweetened with just sugar. The first batch was back-sweetened with a little White Grape Juice and sugar and the aroma addition of the White Grape Juice is great. The flavor is about the same for both but the aroma has the tongue anticipating the taste before it hits the palate.


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## Tnuscan

Scooter68 said:


> I agree - final taste is what matters most. I just opened a bottle of my second batch of blackberry wine. This second one was back-sweetened with just sugar. The first batch was back-sweetened with a little White Grape Juice and sugar and the aroma addition of the White Grape Juice is great. The flavor is about the same for both but the aroma has the tongue anticipating the taste before it hits the palate.



@Scooter68 Is the White Grape Juice the frozen (like welchs) or in the container off the shelf?


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## Tnuscan

I can remember as a small boy, my Dad picking wild black cherries and maybe making a small batch of wine from them. 

I never hear of this nowdays, I don't even know of any local wild black cherry trees.


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## Tnuscan

Scooter68 said:


> Here's the advertisment - ordered just before I posted here and just got word it has shipped: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CO9PHB6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> The Puritan you posted is a black cherry. I saw a lot of prices from $12.xx and up so this was a good bit lower. Also checked out the VH Tart Cherry Puree (49 oz) and that's a 68 Brix which is a little about a 1-3 concentration so that would yield little over a gallon per can where this should be closer to 1.5 gallons per bottle for a lot less, even if I have to add in sugar I'm still better off than the lowest price for the VH I found at about $19.00 / can plus shipping. (And the puree is going to throw a lot of lees too.)



Well now I all I can think about is cherry wine. lol. I ordered the Puritan black cherry concentrate. This really sounds like a interesting and fun experiment. Maybe we can swap out some and share thoughts.?


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## dcbrown73

Tnuscan said:


> Well now I all I can think about is cherry wine. lol. I ordered the Puritan black cherry concentrate. This really sounds like a interesting and fun experiment. Maybe we can swap out some and share thoughts.?



He's making cherry wine, she's making cherry wine, you're making cherry wine, I'm making cherry wine. We'll all make cherry wine, it will be total cherry wine anarchy!


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## Tnuscan

dcbrown73 said:


> He's making cherry wine, she's making cherry wine, you're making cherry wine, I'm making cherry wine. We'll all make cherry wine, it will be total cherry wine anarchy!



Are you making Cherry wine?


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## geek

Who's making cherry wine? ::


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## dcbrown73

Tnuscan said:


> Are you making Cherry wine?



Yep. I'm making a Cherry Chocolate Walnut wine I started with the 128oz bottle that makes 5 gallons. Then I added 12lbs of cherries to kick it up to six gallons. Added about 3 lbs of 72% cocoa chocolate and about a half pound of walnuts for about 7 weeks before I removed them.

I started in late November. It's already tasting good and it's much heavier than most cherry wine I've tasted. Heavy enough that I'm planning on splitting the six gallons into 3 gallons of wine and the other three into a Cherry Chocolate Walnut Port.


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## Tnuscan

dcbrown73 said:


> Yep. I'm making a Cherry Chocolate Walnut wine I started with the 128oz bottle that makes 5 gallons. Then I added 12lbs of cherries to kick it up to six gallons. Added about 3 lbs of 72% cocoa chocolate and about a half pound of walnuts for about 7 weeks before I removed them.
> 
> I started in late November. It's already tasting good and it's much heavier than most cherry wine I've tasted. Heavy enough that I'm planning on splitting the six gallons into 3 gallons of wine and the other three into a Cherry Chocolate Walnut Port.



It sure sounds like a nice wine. A local winery won a double gold with their Port. It was made from Cynthiania, if you bite a piece of chocolate you'll think of Chocolate covered cherries. It's so good, you can barely stand it.


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## geek

@dcbrown73 
Which cocoa chocolate specifically, do you have a link if purchased online? That sounds like a nice combo, is it basic powered chocolate or bars, and assume you added in 'secondary' or after the wine went completely dry.


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## dcbrown73

geek said:


> @dcbrown73
> Which cocoa chocolate specifically, do you have a link if purchased online? That sounds like a nice combo, is it basic powered chocolate or bars, and assume you added in 'secondary' or after the wine went completely dry.



Trader Joe's 72% Cacoa Dark Belgium Chocolate Bar. (the 1lb bars)

It's basically this one except I bought it from Trader Joe's by my house.

I just broken it up into chunks that would slip into the carboy during secondary fermentation. I just let that set for seven weeks, then racked it and started the clearing stage with Dualfine (SuperKleer)

It's very interesting though. Early on, I was positive I was going to have to back-sweeten it because it was TART! Though after a while the flavors started softening up quite a bit and I may not have to back-sweeten the wine at all. (the port side I will of course)

I'm going to keep tasting it at racking. Somewhere around six months or so I will make a final decision on back-sweetening it.


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## Scooter68

My Tart Cherry Concentrate order left Salt Lake City last night. Have to wait until temps warm a bit to start my first batch. Will probably start it and my next Black Currant wine at the same time. Two 3 gallon batches to break in my new 3 gallon carboys.


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## geek

dcbrown73 said:


> Trader Joe's 72% Cacoa Dark Belgium Chocolate Bar. (the 1lb bars)
> 
> It's basically this one except I bought it from Trader Joe's by my house.
> 
> I just broken it up into chunks that would slip into the carboy during secondary fermentation. I just let that set for seven weeks, then racked it and started the clearing stage with Dualfine (SuperKleer)
> 
> It's very interesting though. Early on, I was positive I was going to have to back-sweeten it because it was TART! Though after a while the flavors started softening up quite a bit and I may not have to back-sweeten the wine at all. (the port side I will of course)
> 
> I'm going to keep tasting it at racking. Somewhere around six months or so I will make a final decision on back-sweetening it.



I may consider the cocoa chocolate 
My daughter goes to Wesconn so I may ask her to stop by that store (we don't have one nearby Naugatuck).

Interested to know if you let your wine for 7 weeks in 'secondary' without adding any sulfite (it sounds like it?).
You also didn't mention sorbate, but assume the sugars from the chocolate got consumed/fermented in those 7 weeks. Did the chocolate chunks turned into a sludge?

So, I think you moved to 'secondary' where there was some residual sugar, maybe ~1.010, then added the chocolate bar, let it ferment dry for 7 weeks and finally follow the rest for clearing.

If you can post some SG numbers throughout your process that would be great, thanks.


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## dcbrown73

geek said:


> I may consider the cocoa chocolate
> My daughter goes to Wesconn so I may ask her to stop by that store (we don't have one nearby Naugatuck).
> 
> Interested to know if you let your wine for 7 weeks in 'secondary' without adding any sulfite (it sounds like it?).
> You also didn't mention sorbate, but assume the sugars from the chocolate got consumed/fermented in those 7 weeks. Did the chocolate chunks turned into a sludge?
> 
> So, I think you moved to 'secondary' where there was some residual sugar, maybe ~1.010, then added the chocolate bar, let it ferment dry for 7 weeks and finally follow the rest for clearing.
> 
> If you can post some SG numbers throughout your process that would be great, thanks.


These are my notes so far. So far no sorbate, but the chocolate and I've been topping up with Welches Black Cherry juice.

The ABV changes due to adding the juice. It's mostly if I remember. A guess based on volumes.


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## geek

Thanks for the notes.


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## geek

And this is the start, took the 10lbs out of the freezer to thaw overnight.




And the 2 cans of purée plus the Montrachet yeast.


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## Tnuscan

And we're off.


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## dcbrown73

Tnuscan said:


> And we're off.



To the Tasteis?


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## geek

Took a pH reading of the thawing cherries and it first started at 3.6x but then it kept going up to 3.91 when I removed the meter, I think it'd go even a bit higher and this may be due to the liquid being so cold at 32F right now.

I rather see and like the pH to be high and not low, I like adding tartaric acid to adjust down versus pot. bicarbonate to adjust up.


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## Scooter68

From the calculator I found a pH reading of 3.91 at 34F (1.11 C) would convert to 4.15 (The online calculator has to have temp value between 1-75 C)

But that assumes that your meter is NOT automatically doing the temp correction. The difference isn't that much really so it looks like you might get to add that tartaric. Of course What I've been doing is making initial readings before I bed the batch down for 24hrs with the K-meta dosage. Then just before I pitch the yeast I take another reading since, I've found that as the must sits and things start to break down, fully dissolve etc. my readings for both SG and pH have been shifting. Blueberries as many have noted on here are notorius for going highly acidic especially in batches with higher ratios of lbs / gallons. Cherries... I don't know hopefully you will have a day or two for the temps, pH, and SG to settle down a bit before you pitch the yeast.

OH MY ORDER OF TART CHERRY CONCENTRATE JUST ARRIVED !!! Ordered late morning March 1st! USPS delivery for $0.00


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## geek

This is the one I found online, although it is not working for F but for C temps:

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/PhTempCorrection.php


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## geek

I'm really thinking of stopping by at Costco now and get 2 frozen cherries bag for $9 each, I think they have 3 lbs of organic cherries....


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## geek

This morning I placed the bucket close to the pellet stove.
Just stirred well now and here are the numbers:

pH ~3.53
Temp 69F

What a difference!


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## Tnuscan

And remember this will change as the fruit solids break down and the puree is added in. After all is combined you will want to mix well, pull a sample out, run it thru the blender, strain/filter and then take your reading. And I'm sure/hoping you've removed the pits.


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## Scooter68

geek said:


> This is the one I found online, although it is not working for F but for C temps:
> 
> https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/PhTempCorrection.php



Yeah, same one I used but while it will work with Fahrenheit temps they have to equal at least 1 degree Centigrade so a minimum Fahrenheit temp of 33.9 must be entered.


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## Scooter68

Tnuscan said:


> And remember this will change as the fruit solids break down and the puree is added in. After all is combined you will want to mix well, pull a sample out, run it thru the blender, strain/filter and then take your reading. And I'm sure/hoping you've removed the pits.



You aren't recommending running ALL of the must through a blender right? I did that once with peaches and the air entrapment became a serious issue. It took several days for all the air to leave the must and permit an accurate reading with the Hydrometer.


----------



## Scooter68

3.53 - Pretty much perfect if it holds. Great and keep us posted.


----------



## Tnuscan

Scooter68 said:


> You aren't recommending running ALL of the must through a blender right? I did that once with peaches and the air entrapment became a serious issue. It took several days for all the air to leave the must and permit an accurate reading with the Hydrometer.



No just a small sample to take the pH.

And to taste.


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## Tnuscan

I'd also like to add,... when I'm reading these numbers, I'm tasting, to train myself, to realize the differences the changes are making. I know it can be done without meters, and by taste alone. I'm just using visual along with taste as a training method.


----------



## geek

Just came back from Costco, got 2 3lbs bags of sweet organic frozen cherries, these are much bigger/darker cherries compared to the first ones given to my wife (red color).
So in total I am using: 
-10lbs of tart pitted cherries
-6lbs of sweet pitted cherries
-6lbs of sweet cherry puree
-1 can of 16oz red tart pitted cherries that I found in the house (meh)

I know that pH of 3.5x won't hold as soon as I add water to the mix later, we'll see.

Hoping to pitch Montrachet yeast later tonight.


----------



## geek

After completing to a bit less than 6gal (with about 3 and 1/4 gal of spring water); used what I had left of tartaric acid, about 3tsp and pH came down to about ~3.63.

However the SG is only 1.030 

Oh well, white plain sugar it is..


----------



## Hoxviii

I've made a few batches using costco frozen cherries, and it's to rave reviews. everyone loves the stuff.

3lb/gallon, juice, correct for acid to .65, sugar to 12% potential, use 1tsp red star premier blanc/gallon activated before pitching, primary on the solids. backsweetening is my secret - won't share that.

fantastic tasting and repeatable if you're good at taking notes.


----------



## geek

This is now in the ~1.010, so tonight I'm racking and squeezing the fruit bag.


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## dcbrown73

geek said:


> This is now in the ~1.010, so tonight I'm racking and squeezing the fruit bag.



We will need to trade bottles once they are fit to drink.


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## geek

dcbrown73 said:


> We will need to trade bottles once they are fit to drink.



Sure thing, let's see how this develops in a few months.
My daughter is buying me a couple cocoa chocolate bars today, so I'll throw them in there tonight. Very curious to know what kind of flavor this will impart to the final product.

My wife also brought a 2.5lbs bag of tart pitted cherries last night, will use them to back sweeten a bit.


----------



## Hoxviii

geek said:


> This is now in the ~1.010, so tonight I'm racking and squeezing the fruit bag.



Are you reading your hydrometer correctly? 1.010 is only a 1% potential. do you mean 1.110 (14.5%)?


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## Johnd

Hoxviii said:


> Are you reading your hydrometer correctly? 1.010 is only a 1% potential. do you mean 1.110 (14.5%)?



I think you may not be reading the Forum correctly. See post 64, after adjusting acid, he had a sg of 1.030, and boosted it up with white sugar, it's been fermenting for days and is ready to be racked. My $ are on Varis's hydrometer reading ability........


----------



## geek

Lol, you're correct John.
I did boost it to about 1.080

I am currently racking it again as there's LOTS of slush at the bottom.

Taking another reading briefly...


----------



## geek

It's sitting right in the ~1.000 and maybe slightly a bit higher, so I'm calling it 1.000

Man, does Cherry like other fruit wines create a lot of sediment or what..!!
I lost probably 3/4 of a gallon.

I'm letting this sit again for an extra week or more before I add some sulfite to bulk age, for some reason I'm not trusting this will ferment much lower, will see...


----------



## geek

BTW - pH seems to be ~3.56 with a must temp of 68.5F


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## dcbrown73

During primary fermentation, was the actively over the top compared to most wines? Mine was. I kept the primary fermenter in a clear plastic bag and it was a good thing!


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## geek

Yes, pretty much, I had to move it to a bigger vessel I have (10gal bucket) as it was making a big mess with this red star Montrachet yeast, plus mine went much higher than the 6gal mark since I added simple syrup to boost it up.

BTW - I just ended with a bit less than 5gal, so I racked to a 5gal carboy to rest for some time.

I have 2.5lbs of frozen pitted cherries in the freezer, I will decide on when and how to use them to back sweeten, although these cherries seem to be very low in sugar.


----------



## Hoxviii

geek said:


> Lol, you're correct John.
> I did boost it to about 1.080
> 
> I am currently racking it again as there's LOTS of slush at the bottom.
> 
> Taking another reading briefly...
> 
> View attachment 34584



Yep, racked a batch of cherry this morning and there was about 5/8" of goop in the bottom of a 5 gallon batch, and this was coming out of _secondary_. 

coming out of primary I had good and proper chunks left behind, obviously, but the amount of fines and dead yeast that came out in secondary is absolutely nuts. Plus the fact that the wine isn't anywhere near clear yet, there's going to be another layer of goop when I go to rack for sweetening.

I only lost a little since I'm patient and know this wine is going to sit for clearing for probably a month, so no sense in leaving too much behind.

I'll typically only lose a real amount of wine at racking for sweetening, but that doesn't get "lost", the tails from that racking gets used to figure out what and how much sweetener to use so it gets consumed in the process


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## geek

What's the pH of that batch?


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## Hoxviii

geek said:


> What's the pH of that batch?



Couldn't tell you.

At the start it was 3.9pH, I corrected to 3.5pH, then titrated and corrected to .65TA. 

I don't take pH readings at every racking, just at the beginning, before going to bulk aging, and before sweetening. I'm not due for a reading on this batch until my next racking.


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## geek

I racked this wine again and it seems like fermentation got stuck and won't go below 1.000 (never happened to me with any other yeast as I can remember); it's been sitting there for many days. I did degas really well.
So decided to stabilize with k-meta and sorbate, then added the juice from 2.5lbs of tart pitted cherries, the SG went to a merely 1.002.

Racked into 5gal carboy and added chunks of dark chocolate (around 1lb).

I'm gonna let this ride for a couple months to see what kind of profile it develops, cherry smell or flavor is nowhere to be found, so hopefully the back sweeten would do its job in a couple months.

SG ~3.59

.


----------



## Scooter68

Well getting my First Cherry Wine must ready today. 
Going for a 3 gallon batch (Plus a little more for lees lost)
3 x 16 oz bottles of Tart Cherry Concentrate
1 x 15 oz bottle of Black Cherry Concentrate
(Each of the above says that one bottle makes 1 gallon of Cherry Juice. According to the maker - 1 oz of concentrated 'contains the juice of 2 cups of Cherries' According to some sources that mean a bottle equals 5 1/3 lbs of cherries. So I should have 20 pounds worth of cherries in there.

Still working on the pH - it started at 3.86 and I'm looking at adding primarily Acid 
Blend to lower that. 
SG is 1.088 with a dry ferment that should be a 12.86% ABV.
Based on what I've seen I don't need to add any tannin but I think I'll go ahead with about 1 tsp because I do want it to have the dry and pucker factor.
Going with the EC 1118 yeast when it's ready sometime tomorrow.


----------



## Scooter68

Pitched the yeast today after finishing pH adjustment. Initially the pH was 3.86. Used primarily Malic and Acid Blend along with some citric Acid to get starting pH down to 3.57
SG last night was 1.088 but despite using hot water for my simple syrup mix something changed overnight and I launched it today with a starting SG reading of 1.100 so if this goes all the way to .990 I'm looking a little heavy on the ABV at 14.4% higher than I wanted but we will see where this goes.

Held out 1/2 the yeast nutrient for adding later and I did add Fermaid along with the Yeast Nutrient.

Used 2 oz very warm water for the yeast - approx 95degrees along with 1/8 tsp yeast nutrient in the yeast slurry. 2 oz of juice added after yeast starte temp was just detectable as warm. Waited another 15 mins while I did my final pH and SG measurements and found the starter with a nice head of foam on it where it had previously been showing no foam at all. Pitched the yeast in and stirred vigorously for about 30 seconds at 3:00 PM then covered with muslin. Checked in on the must at 9:45 PM and actually found a slight evidence of foam starting. At 6:30 there was nothing in evidence. Will check in on this in the morning but temps are going to drop in the house to a low as 66 degrees (This home is not currently occupied so we keep temps set lower normally). Starting temp was 72 degrees and at 9:45 the temp was 71 degrees. Hoping for a quick start on this.


----------



## Tnuscan

Scooter68 said:


> Pitched the yeast today after finishing pH adjustment. Initially the pH was 3.86. Used primarily Malic and Acid Blend along with some citric Acid to get starting pH down to 3.57
> SG last night was 1.088 but despite using hot water for my simple syrup mix something changed overnight and I launched it today with a starting SG reading of 1.100 so if this goes all the way to .990 I'm looking a little heavy on the ABV at 14.4% higher than I wanted but we will see where this goes.
> 
> Held out 1/2 the yeast nutrient for adding later and I did add Fermaid along with the Yeast Nutrient.
> 
> Used 2 oz very warm water for the yeast - approx 95degrees along with 1/8 tsp yeast nutrient in the yeast slurry. 2 oz of juice added after yeast starte temp was just detectable as warm. Waited another 15 mins while I did my final pH and SG measurements and found the starter with a nice head of foam on it where it had previously been showing no foam at all. Pitched the yeast in and stirred vigorously for about 30 seconds at 3:00 PM then covered with muslin. Checked in on the must at 9:45 PM and actually found a slight evidence of foam starting. At 6:30 there was nothing in evidence. Will check in on this in the morning but temps are going to drop in the house to a low as 66 degrees (This home is not currently occupied so we keep temps set lower normally). Starting temp was 72 degrees and at 9:45 the temp was 71 degrees. Hoping for a quick start on this.



Dawg gone, I might need a bottle or two of this one.


----------



## geek

@Scooter68
Just curiosity, but why you use malic acid and not just tartaric acid?
Personally, I'd never introduce malic acid, at least obviously to my grape wine, but since this fruit you may know something I don't.


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## Scooter68

Malic acid is the predominant acid in Cherries and a number of other fruits. A couple of articles I read suggested adjusting the acidity of a wine must using the same acid that is dominant in a fruit to increase the acidity. I noticed also in hind sight that I did in fact use a 1 1/2 tsp of Tartaric. So while I did use somewhat more malic than the other acids I was also trying to keep it somewhat balanced by adding the individual acids since I ran low on my Acid blend.
Not looking to do any MLF so I will be doing my best to take the steps needed to stop that from happening. As I understand a ABV of 14% + will help and using Bentonite for clearing will also aid in that goal. I've been looking at the various Anti- MLF products (Lysovin Lysoeasy or Lactizyme) but most are $$$ for me. 

On the up-side when I checked this morning about 10:00AM a light 1/4" cap of foam has already formed and the aroma of an active fermentation is definitely present. That's only about 19 hours after pitching the yeast.


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## Johnd

Scooter68 said:


> Not looking to do any MLF so I will be doing my best to take the steps needed to stop that from happening. As I understand a ABV of 14% + will help and using Bentonite for clearing will also aid in that goal. I've been looking at the various Anti- MLF products (Lysovin Lysoeasy or Lactizyme) but most are $$$ for me.



As you noted, higher ABV is in your favor, as well as lower pH's, sulfite in excess of 50 PPM will keep even the most hardy cultivated strains of MLB at bay. Personally, if you get your wine finished, adjust your acidity and sulfite it, I doubt you have too much to worry about. Get it into the cellar at 55 and you have yet another factor in your favor.............


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## Scooter68

OK - Well 48 hours after pitching the yeast and the SG has dropped to 1.077 from 1.098*. The pH has dropped a bit to 3.47 which is still within bounds. Given the potential for a MLF I'm going to boost the SG in a day or so to keep the ABV closer to 15%. 

In any case the Fermentation started without a hitch. The first night about 6-7 hours after pitching the yeast I did see a little foam starting and confirmed the next morning by both a 1/4" of foam cap and the aroma that things were underway. Temps started out about 71 degrees when I pitched the yeast and I've kept them at or above 66 since then. 

We open windows during the day and with temps in the mid-to-high 70s we can get the house warmed up nicely with no help from the gas or electric company. 

Oh yes I did a little taste today and the tartness is just right, still sweet of course since the yeast has a long way to go converting the Sugars but it looks like this could be a great wine if this holds. 

*(Mis-read the Hydrometer and realized that on an reading 24 hours into the ferment.)


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## Scooter68

Well Right now other than the yeast in the must - I have a carbonated Tart Cherry wine beverage. I could drink this stuff as it is  

Tasted it this morning at 9:00AM as I tested the SG which is now at 1.036 (Or an ABV currently of about 8 %) Actually not too sweet anymore which is also to be expected at this point. The pH is now at 3.40 still quite acceptable and even if it drops as low as 3.20 I see no reason to worry - UNLESS anyone has a reason why I should. 
I suspect I might be ready to go to secondary either tonight or tomorrow morning - whenever it gets below 1.020. Ah, but I just read my note above - Need to add more simple syrup to get that ABV up closer to 15% to ward off the MLF.


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## Scooter68

Checked on the wine last night it was down to 1.018 so I decided to rack it to my 3 gallon carboy.... Could have, probably should have, waited until today. Found that the fermentation foam would form quickly if you put a bubbler on the top but when I replaced the bung and bubbler with just my cloth bottle cover tied over the top the gas was able to dissipate fast enough to keep the foam from filling the headspace. Still had to put some into a half-gallon "carboy" and put a bubbler on it. The half-gallon container is now about 3/4 full and bubbling away happily. When fermentation finishes, soon I imagine, I should be able to rack to another carboy and fill it.


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## Scooter68

Last Night (Saturday) SG 1.012 This morning 1.010

Looks like it's starting to wind down. Now I'm thinking I moved it into the carboy too soon and should have let it run longer in the bucket. Stirred it some this morning and got some bubbling going on but that may be nothing more than CO2 releasing. Was hoping things would be below 1.000 today and I'd stir in the bentonite and let that settle things out before I move to close out fermentation. Still the ABV right now should be about 12.6 but that's below the goal I had of 14.5 or slightly higher. (To reduce chance of MLF) 

I'll check again tonight and see where it's at. If it drops below 1.010 I'll wait at least another day before adding the bentonite. At least its now rehydrated and ready to go.


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## dcbrown73

Racked mine today. The wine is really softening up and the flavor is very juicy and on the edge of being outright jammy. I'm pretty excited about it, but I'm really starting to believe this will make an even better port style wine. Maybe I shouldn't split it and go full on port with the entire batch.

The smell of the walnuts booms the second you open it. I never expected the walnuts I added to it to have such a profound (and very nice) affect on the aroma.


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## Johnd

dcbrown73 said:


> Racked mine today. The wine is really softening up and the flavor is very juicy and on the edge of being outright jammy. I'm pretty excited about it, but I'm really starting to believe this will make an even better port style wine. Maybe I should split it and go full on port with the entire batch.



When I was a kid, my parents used to go on an outing with some friends where they'd pick some kind of cherries, and mix up some big concoction, ferment for a while, add some booze and produce something they called "Cherry Bounce". 

They can't find the recipe, but I suspect it was some kind of portish type concoction, and it was always a big hit.


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## Scooter68

Looks good!


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## Scooter68

Johnd said:


> When I was a kid, my parents used to go on an outing with some friends where they'd pick some kind of cherries, and mix up some big concoction, ferment for a while, add some booze and produce something they called "Cherry Bounce".
> 
> They can't find the recipe, but I suspect it was some kind of portish type concoction, and it was always a big hit.



I have a book by Ian Knauer called "The Farm" and it has a recipe for Sour Cherry Cordial. Calls for
2 cups Wild or Sour cherries
3 cups Vodka
1/2 cup Sugar 
1/2 cup Water 

Muddle the cherries in a jar
Add the vodka 
Cover and let sit 3 weeks (or Longer) 
Then strain and sweeten to taste with a simple syrup from the sugar and water. Not much to it and looking at it now.... not impressive, but it will kick you back in your chair. 

The book author speaks of finding wild cherries in the woods and decided that this was about the best he could do with the quantity he found. Interesting and it get me interested in the real thing - Fruit wine.

Not really fermented but obviously pretty potent.


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## mikewatkins727

Cherry Bounce was a favorite drink of George Washington. A recipe for it was found amongst Martha Washington's papers.


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## Johnd

Interesting, I'm going to prod them to dig some more and see if we can't find it.


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## Scooter68

mikewatkins727 said:


> Cherry Bounce was a favorite drink of George Washington. A recipe for it was found amongst Martha Washington's papers.




Interesting and when I found this recipe it looks strikingly like the "Cherry Cordial" but with a heating of the Cherries instead of just 'muddling' and letting them macerate in Whiskty/Brandy/Vodka. Otherwise very similar/the same.

http://outlanderkitchen.com/2012/07/16/the-great-cherry-bounce-experiment/

And after looking at a couple of other recipes - they all run along the same line. A simple 'mash' of cherries of your chosen variety, along with your favorite hard liquor and sugar.

Let us know what you come up with. I could see all sorts of variety to this, Orange slices, Cinnamon or other Spices etc.


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## BlueStimulator

Love this post thanks for sharing. FYI I think Costco also sells tart cherry juice too. 

My cousin has 10 Bing cherry trees and we have made Cherry Bounce in the past with Vodka and Whisky. My fav was some thing like this cherries, whiskey, allspice, cinnamon and nutmeg. Age from June to Turkeyday. It was great as a cordial and really good poured over a brownie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream .


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## Scooter68

BlueStimulator said:


> Love this post thanks for sharing. FYI I think Costco also sells tart cherry juice too.
> 
> My cousin has 10 Bing cherry trees and we have made Cherry Bounce in the past with Vodka and Whisky. My fav was some thing like this cherries, whiskey, allspice, cinnamon and nutmeg. Age from June to Turkeyday. It was great as a cordial and really good poured over a brownie with a scoop of vanilla ice cream .



AND if you take the pits out the 'remains' of the mascerated cherries are also great topping for ice cream as well. 

Years ago someone gave us a brandied fruit 'starter' that would render a great desert topping as well - you just had to keep 'feeding it' fruit now and then - I think canned fruit cocktail was the food we used because it had enough sugar already in it. In any case we neglected to feed it after a while and eventually it was gone.


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## geek

It looks very clear too.


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## Scooter68

So I was so happy that my juice sourced Tart Cherry wine batch had only about 1/4 inch of lees in secondary. BUT.... Last night I dosed it with 4 ozs of Bentonite slurry (1 tablespoon for 3 gallons) and this morning I now have 1 1/4 inches of lees. Ah well. Hopefully they will compact quickly. Fermentation has slowed down tremendously only dropped about .003 in the last 24 hours from 1.012 to 1.009


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## Scooter68

Terminated Fermentation today on my Tart Cherry batch. SG stopped at 1.008 stayed there for 3 days and nights. Well sealed carboy was not bubbling at all except after I returned testing samples to the carboy then it gave about 1 pip of the bubbler and quit.
Lees weren't too bad even with bentonite dropping so I used my second 1.5 liter container to top off the 3 gallon carboy. I then racked the second container remains into a 1 pint canning jar and a 1/2 pint canning jar used a piece of plastic bag under the standard canning lid to prevent contact with the metal lid. Then placed the 1 pint and 1/2 pint in the fridge. All were treated with 2 1/4 campden tabs for the total 3 gallons 1 and 1/2 pint. 

Anyone have any suggestions to help prevent the MLF I'm open to them. The 3 carboy is now in the basement with the temp about 58. Will rack it again in about 1 to 2 weeks if I see significant lees. By my calculations the current ABV is 12.86%


----------



## Johnd

You're probably just fine at 58F in the basement with properly maintained SO2 levels, especially since you've never introduced and MLB to the equation. If you're just obsessing over it, you can always treat with Lysozyme......


----------



## geek

Scooter68 said:


> Terminated Fermentation today on my Tart Cherry batch. SG stopped at 1.008 stayed there for 3 days and nights. Well sealed carboy was not bubbling at all except after I returned testing samples to the carboy then it gave about 1 pip of the bubbler and quit.
> Lees weren't too bad even with bentonite dropping so I used my second 1.5 liter container to top off the 3 gallon carboy. I then racked the second container remains into a 1 pint canning jar and a 1/2 pint canning jar used a piece of plastic bag under the standard canning lid to prevent contact with the metal lid. Then placed the 1 pint and 1/2 pint in the fridge. All were treated with 2 1/4 campden tabs for the total 3 gallons 1 and 1/2 pint.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions to help prevent the MLF I'm open to them. The 3 carboy is now in the basement with the temp about 58. Will rack it again in about 1 to 2 weeks if I see significant lees. By my calculations the current ABV is 12.86%




Mine stopped at barely 1.000 and never moved lower. I used Montrachet.


----------



## Scooter68

This was the second time I've had a batch stop short with this yeast EC-1118* - It could just be stalled but then again it's close enough to finished that I'm OK with stopping now. I will have to watch it though as I don't want an MLF fermentation now. I was careful to only add half the nutrient initially and waited until it dropped tp 1.030 and added the rest then. It dropped so quickly to that point - would rather have added the additional nutrient at about 1.050.

Hate to add sorbate this early on since I would like to age it at least 7-9 months.

Anyone with experience in this realm feel free to chime in now.

*(Other than these 2 incidents the yeast has worked well - both of these were fairly high SG but then this yeast is supposed to be good for up to 18%. Acidity (pH) when measured today was 3.50 so that wasn't off and nutrient level should have been fine.)


----------



## geek

Personally, I like adding sorbate early on if I am going to back sweeten so any off flavor or smell from the sorbate can dissipate during bulk aging.

I did add it to this batch before I then added 2.5lbs of tart cherry juice to the wine, plus over 1lb of dark chocolate broken in pieces.


----------



## Scooter68

Actually what I've been reading is that the off flavors from Sorbate occur later as the wine ages not early on.


----------



## dcbrown73

Scooter68 said:


> Actually what I've been reading is that the off flavors from Sorbate occur later as the wine ages not early on.



I've heard the exact opposite. That it will fade with age.

I've also noticed that if you do back-sweeten. I do not taste the sorbate near as much as if I do not. I suppose the flavor blends better with the sweetening.


----------



## geek

dcbrown73 said:


> I've heard the exact opposite. That it will fade with age.
> 
> I've also noticed that if you do back-sweeten. I do not taste the sorbate near as much as if I do not. I suppose the flavor blends better with the sweetening.



That has been my experience.

This last happened to us with the Sauv Blanc Rose from last year (available again this year)....the sorbate odor and taste was obvious early on but then it started to fade as time passed by and it finally went away after a few months...it is now a GREAT Rose.


----------



## Scooter68

In the words of Arte Johnson "Very Interesting" (You do remember that line right?)

As to sorbate taste when a wine is not backsweetened... I don't understand why one would do that. Sorbates use is normally only for wines that are backsweetened. 

In any case I'm glad to hear that it worked well for you and I will have to give that some thought. I imagine since the fermentation stopped on it's own and I've now added K-Meta, I have a little time to think about this.


----------



## geek

How's the cherry wine going for you guys?
I haven't checked mine in a while, so maybe tonight I will check it again. It's been a month since I stabilized and all..


----------



## dcbrown73

geek said:


> How's the cherry wine going for you guys?
> I haven't checked mine in a while, so maybe tonight I will check it again. It's been a month since I stabilized and all..



I haven't touched it since I last racked it several weeks ago. I expect to rack it again around June. At that point, I expect to look into converting it to a Port. (or at least some of it)


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## Scooter68

My 3 gallon batch is doing fine. Adjusted the Acidity a little - it had gone up to 3.75. Working it down below 3.60 gradually. Taste is great - a little dry for my liking but oddly the SG is at 1.010 where it stopped at the end of fermentation. I'm ok with that but I'm keeping an eye on it making sure there is no MLF or other re-fermentation starting.


----------



## Shred5

I am new to wine making. I have grape vines, apple trees and cherry trees.

I just want to clear up some stuff on cherries and the difference between tart and sweet cherries. Tart and sweet have nothing to do with the flavor or amount of sugar in a cherry it has to do with the species of tree they come from. Sweet cherry tree (_P. avium_) and the tart cherry tree (_P. cerasus_) . Basically a tart cherry can be sweeter and have more sugar than a sweet cherry. Tart cherries also are better for cooking because they hold up better.


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## Scooter68

_"I just want to clear up some stuff on cherries and the difference between tart and sweet cherries. Tart and sweet have nothing to do with the flavor or amount of sugar in a cherry it has to do with the species of tree they come from. "_

While I agree that the sugar amount of a ripe tart cherry is not necessarily different than a sweet cherry, the flavor is different. Just as different varieties of fruits vary in flavor, strength of flavor and even sugar contents. They are both cherries but there can be big differences in the characteristics of different cherry varieties. 

I have 16 oz bottles of concentrated Black Cherry juice and Tart Cherry Juice the taste is very different but the sugar content of those is exactly the same (and the mix amount for an 8 oz serving of juice is the same 1 oz to 7 ozs of water = 1 serving = 120 calories)

I have over 30 blueberry bushes and each type has certain characteristics. Size, sweetness, color, time of ripening, etc. In my garden I chose different tomato plants because the have different characteristics in flavor, size etc. In fact when making Apple wine, those with a depth of experience recommend blending at least two types of apples for a wine and they also state that in general tart apples make better wines. 

There are flavor differences between different varieties of fruit and vegetables. Yes there is a general flavor characteristic of a Cherry, Apple, Blueberry etc but within those fruits the flavor still varies especially if you are talking about a Tart vs Sweet variety.


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## geek

Racked the cherry wine off the fine lees and the dark chocolate chunks.
Wine is very clear, it doesn't taste dry or sweet, cherry flavor is subtle and there's a hint of chocolate aroma.


----------



## Smok1

geek said:


> Racked the cherry wine off the fine lees and the dark chocolate chunks.
> Wine is very clear, it doesn't taste dry or sweet, cherry flavor is subtle and there's a hint of chocolate aroma.
> 
> View attachment 37189



That looks great


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## geek

Does anyone know a good place (hoping for something at a local supermarket?) to get some sort of cherry extract without any additives but pure cherry concentrate?
I'd like to add a bit more of cherry flavor to this wine, although maybe I should just let it age for a couple months....

The problem is that my 5gal carboy needs to be topped off, missing about 1/2 a gallon and I don't want to rack down since I only have 1gal jugs available right now. 

For now is sitting with the head space eliminator...so maybe this will hold on just fine for a couple months...


----------



## geek

Wonder if this concentrate may be good:

From Walmart.


----------



## wineforfun

geek said:


> Racked the cherry wine off the fine lees and the dark chocolate chunks.
> Wine is very clear, it doesn't taste dry or sweet, cherry flavor is subtle and there's a hint of chocolate aroma.
> 
> View attachment 37189



Wine looks great and thanks for the idea of adding chocolate, I had forgotten about that. I have a batch of cherry fermenting as I type. Last batch I added some cinammon and clove. Turned out well. This one I may throw in some chocolate.


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## Scooter68

geek said:


> Wonder if this concentrate may be good:
> 
> From Walmart.



Don't see anything wrong with it. I bought a bottle to see if I liked tart cherry before I made my first batch. For the wine itself I used this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CO9PHB6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

(One bottle of the concentrate equals 1 Gallon of the stuff you are looking at.) BUT you can walk into Walmart and have what they offer - today !


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## geek

I am now really thinking about this extract from LP:
Natural Cherry Flavoring 4 oz

https://labelpeelers.com/beer-makin...eer-flavorings/natural-cherry-flavoring-4-oz/

According to what LP told me, this is all natural extract and no artificial flavor...


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## ceeaton

I've used this before with great success. Just got it from Giant not Walmart. Just costs a few $$.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/R.W.-Knu...75035&wl11=online&wl12=24389738&wl13=&veh=sem


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## GreenEnvy22

I'm making a 3 gallon batch from 13Lbs of sweet cherries we picked on 7/3/2017. We pitted them all and then froze them so juice will come out easier.
I'll be adjusting sugar level to 1.085 and using 1118 yeast because thats what I have right now.


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## Scooter68

Keep us posted on the progress!


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## tjgaul

It must be the season. I kicked off a little 1 gallon batch on Sunday. I used 3.5 Lbs of fresh cherries from the tree in my yard and added 1 banana, 2 squares of dark bakers chocolate and about an inch of vanilla bean. This was based on a recipe that calls for both brown sugar and regular cane sugar. Made a yeast starter and pitched K1-V1116. It's fermenting vigorously and smells great at this point. 

This is my first attempt at cherry wine. If it goes well I will make a more concerted effort to get a larger harvest next year.


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## Smok1

Boom! Helped fix a neighbors air conditioner for him, when he asked how much $ i said i dont charge neighbors, today he stopped by with 40lbs of cherrys. Im stoked. Ive done blueberry wine, rhubarb, strawberry, rasp/blackberry, ive always wanted to do cherry but there pretty expensive here to buy in the store enough for wine. Now the question is "to pit? Or not to pit?" And whats the best way to put these suckers.


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## geek

That looks great..
I only made mine with pitted frozen cherries but I think you want to pit them and freeze them.


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## Smok1

geek said:


> That looks great..
> I only made mine with pitted frozen cherries but I think you want to pit them and freeze them.



Im trying to figure the easiest way of extracting these off there pits, pitting 40lbs of cherries seems like a daunting task, it fills both my kitchen sinks to the top. Id like to pit them and run them through my juicer like i ussually do with fruit wines but i think i might resort to mashing them in the fermenter and straining out the pits.

Or pay my kids to depit them


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## GreenEnvy22

We did some of ours (35 Lbs) with a drinking straw, and some with a 4-at-a-time cherry pitter.
The straw method is slower but you get all the pits out. the pitter is less reliable.


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## Scooter68

I purchased an antique pitter that I have yet to use . But having used a plastic manual pitter (Push down, check for proper separation and repeat) at a rate of about 15-20 cherries a minute I wouldn't worry if the process isn't 100% in getting the pit out. A few pits aren't going to spoil the batch.


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## Smok1

Ok that was a big job but i had the help of my son, daughter, and my lady, i used stainless steel straws i had from some starbucks drink cups. They worked really well but all our fingers were hurting by the time we finished haha. Destemmed, cleaned, depitted, and juiced 40lbs in 2.5 hours.


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## GreenEnvy22

Got mine going today. I had 6Kg of frozen sweet cherries we picked and pitted earlier in the week.
I added 2L of organic no preservative, not from concentrate cherry juice, then 6L reverse osmosis water, and 4Lb sugar.
Added some acid blend to bring pH to 3.5, pectic enzyme, yeast nutrient, yeast energizer, and KMS.
About 12 hours later I added some yeast.
SG was right at 1.085.
I have 15L in the bucket now, but that is with all the cherries in there. Should be around 12.5Lb of juice.


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## pgentile

This thread has inspired me to do a cherry wine. I called around to local wholesalers and can't get any sour/tart cherries right now. I can get dark cherries for $11.00 for 18 lbs. I ordered sour cherry concentrate from homewinery.com. So my recipe so far is:

36 lbs - black cherries(freeze then de-pit)
64oz - sour cherry concentrate
water to 6 gal
sugar to 1.100
pectic enzyme
yeast nutrient


acid blend ?
tannin ?
yeast QA23 ?

Would I be better off looking for frozen sour/tart cherries instead if using dark fresh cherries?

Is 64oz of sour concentrate too much?

This recipe as is will come in around $80 for 6 gal batch


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## Scooter68

I Think the price is ok. Not great but not high either for 6 gallons. I pay about $10.00 per gallon for my concentrate so that's a little higher than yours but your fresh fruit is not cheap either so, it sounds reasonable.
Interesting that they don't tell what variety of cherrys the sour cherry concentrate is made from. They may just source it from the cheapest supplier of juice/cherries. Some companies specify exactly what type fruit goes into their juice. Does it matter? If your really want to know what's going in your wine then yes. With grapes there is much to do made about the grape variety and even the vineyard it comes from. (Northern California vineyards are better than central California ones- Really??) 

1) Remember to add volume to your starting point for the loss of gross lees from the cherry pulp. Even in a pure concentrate with no pulp you will lose a significant amount to yeast and other material that will form and precipitate out. For my recent blueberry batch I started with just over 3.6 gallons and barely had 3 gallons when the pulp came out at first racking and that was with 16 3/4 pounds of blueberries. Cherries and blueberries should be about equal in the extent to which the pulp breaks down into liquid.
2) Some will say you cannot have too much flavor but.... for most fruits I believe there is a tipping point where you are wasting fruit/money adding more and more for very little return
3) Mixing tart and sweet cherries is a reasonable thing to do but I think most allow the tart to be the dominant one. It's really more of a personal thing to be honest.

The additions - 
*Acid blend* only to get to the pH start point you want. Most fruit wines do best somewhere between 3.4 and 3.6 as a start point. Do NOT go higher (3.7 3.8 etc)
*Tannin *- Your choice - check around about recipes for cherry wine. With a dominant tart cherry you won't need as much if you do use it.
*Yeast* - Your choice. Some of us don't refine the yeast choice as much as we could for the wine type. Some have a favorite yeast and stick with it as an old faithful part of their wines. Others try to fit the yeast to the exact wine type. Whatever you choose make sure the needs and characteristics of the yeast are a match for your wine making environment. ( Temperature, pH, yeast nutrient needs, type of wine and of course ABV.)


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## pgentile

Scooter68 said:


> I Think the price is ok. Not great but not high either for 6 gallons. I pay about $10.00 per gallon for my concentrate so that's a little higher than yours but your fresh fruit is not cheap either so, it sounds reasonable.
> Interesting that they don't tell what variety of cherrys the sour cherry concentrate is made from. They may just source it from the cheapest supplier of juice/cherries. Some companies specify exactly what type fruit goes into their juice. Does it matter? If your really want to know what's going in your wine then yes. With grapes there is much to do made about the grape variety and even the vineyard it comes from. (Northern California vineyards are better than central California ones- Really??)
> 
> 1) Remember to add volume to your starting point for the loss of gross lees from the cherry pulp. Even in a pure concentrate with no pulp you will lose a significant amount to yeast and other material that will form and precipitate out. For my recent blueberry batch I started with just over 3.6 gallons and barely had 3 gallons when the pulp came out at first racking and that was with 16 3/4 pounds of blueberries. Cherries and blueberries should be about equal in the extent to which the pulp breaks down into liquid.
> 2) Some will say you cannot have too much flavor but.... for most fruits I believe there is a tipping point where you are wasting fruit/money adding more and more for very little return
> 3) Mixing tart and sweet cherries is a reasonable thing to do but I think most allow the tart to be the dominant one. It's really more of a personal thing to be honest.
> 
> The additions -
> *Acid blend* only to get to the pH start point you want. Most fruit wines do best somewhere between 3.4 and 3.6 as a start point. Do NOT go higher (3.7 3.8 etc)
> *Tannin *- Your choice - check around about recipes for cherry wine. With a dominant tart cherry you won't need as much if you do use it.
> *Yeast* - Your choice. Some of us don't refine the yeast choice as much as we could for the wine type. Some have a favorite yeast and stick with it as an old faithful part of their wines. Others try to fit the yeast to the exact wine type. Whatever you choose make sure the needs and characteristics of the yeast are a match for your wine making environment. ( Temperature, pH, yeast nutrient needs, type of wine and of course ABV.)



I'll email them and see if they will give info on source. 

1- Will do

2-Any ideas on what those tipping points are? Most recipes I came across use less fruit and concentrate but more sugar.

3-Most seem to prefer all tart cherries, before I commit to the fresh fruit, I might explore some frozen offerings on tart cherries.

The additions- all sounds logical, thanks


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## Scooter68

_2-Any ideas on what those tipping points are? Most recipes I came across use less fruit and concentrate but more sugar._

It depends on the fruit and the source. I just posted to someone about black raspberries and blackberries. For wild fruit they are generally smaller and more intensely flavored. BUT with cherries I would guess the equivalent of 6-7 pounds is where you start to spend more and get less return on flavor. Just my opinion there. 

For my tart cherry wine that is currently aging I used concentrate 3 bottles of tart cherry and 1 bottle of Black Cherry concentrate. Each bottle was supposed to make 16 8oz servings (1 oz per serving) and that serving would contain 110 calories. My source was Tart Cherry Concentrate (16 OZ) by Complete Natural Products on Amazon. Could have used one more bottle perhaps but it tasted great before starting as far as strength of flavor. I have an extra bottle that I use for making small glasses of cherry drink. I use more water than recommended and find that dilution doesn't hurt the strength at all.

I spend a fair amount of time trying to figure out equivalences of concentrate to fresh fruit conversion and found that when the maker doesn't add sugar then the calories per serving works as a good comparison point. Some concentrated stated that 1 oz of concentrate would yield an 8 oz serving with 90 calories. That suggested to me a lower concentration of the fruit and therefore would talk more bottles of the concentrate. Vintner's Harvest makes wine concentrates and their sweet cherry can (96 oz) per their instructions says it will make 5 gallons of light bodied wine or 3 gallons of a full bodied. consensus on this board is that you want to go with the full bodied recipe. Your source at least states 100% CHERRY juice not Cherry with other juices. That's the only sort of concentrates I will used. If i buy Cherry concentrate I expect 100% Cherry juice and nothing else.

3-_Most seem to prefer all tart cherries, before I commit to the fresh fruit, I might explore some frozen offerings on tart cherries._
Don't forget the local fruit stands. Ask about any over-ripe fruit they may want to get rid of at a better price. Get rid of any mold and the bruises don't hurt the flavor. Stands may be better than an orchard. At an orchard they will have blemished fruit that isn't' ripe yet. That means lower sugar content and less flavor.


Ok that's too much talkie talkie. 

Keep us posted on progess.


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## pgentile

2- great info, sounds like I'm in the range for the amount of fruit.

3- I'll keep looking, the Italian Market here in Philly has a lot fruit available this time of year, many vendors there. 

Thanks for all the info


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## GreenEnvy22

Mine's SG down to .998, so going to remove all the pulp and rack it tomorrow.


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## Smok1

Mines down to .998 as well, seems to have stopped, ussually my fruit wines go lower than that but ive moved it into a secondary and hope to see it lower a bit more over the next few days, theres alot of pulp in this cherry wine so i hope that settles out over the next few days as well.


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## GreenEnvy22

Got mine into a carboy, got a little over 3 gallons. I will rack it again in about a week as there is still a good deal of sediment and cherry bits that made it through. SO2 level is about 40ppm after racking.


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## Smok1

Interestingly enough it appeared my fermentation stopped a little earlier than my other fruit wines. Was .998sg (most my fruit wines end up .990-.994) so i racked into secondary to let the seeiment settle and see if fermentation took off again which after two days it had not, still at .998, i didnt want it sitting there without sulphate so i added a 1/2tsp kmeta to it until i had a chance to get back to it. Went down to check on another batch of wine just now and noticed the trails through the sediment and bubbles so i checked it and its now at 0.996 and fermenting again even after i added the sulphite, i guess i jumped the gun on adding the sulphate but looks like this cherry wine wants to ferment a bit more.


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## Pictman

Hi.I just found this site and I gotta say lots of good info here.Ive been making fruit wine for years but am just about to do my first batch of sour cherry.(My trees are just starting to produce)I have 5 gals. of strawberry/rhubarb wine and 5gals of strawberry/rhubarb cider (experimental) on the go.


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## geek

Hey folks, time to see how the tart cherry chocolate-flavored wine is doing.
I'll try to rack it tomorrow and see where is at.


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