# Chemical Warfare



## smurfe (Dec 8, 2005)

OK I want to start making wines not from kits. This will include fruit wines as well as from grapes or what ever I can get my hands on. I am pretty envious of you all that create by hand and hey, I wanna jump on the train as well. 


When I look at the online catalog, I see a wide arsenal of chemicals and testing materials. I see some chemicals by the ounce and by the pound. Just what does Smurfe need to have on hand here to have a comfortable manufacturing setup as well as a laboratory. 


I want to start my list on what I need to gather to get started at this. So make me a shopping list for what the competent winemaker needs to have on hand.As usual, thank you for your input.


Smurfe







ps. I know I could read up on this and find my answers easily but hey, I like the input from my friends here. Plus it gives us stuff to talk about



And I can be lazy at times



*Edited by: smurfe *


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## PolishWineP (Dec 8, 2005)

Okay, the princess is going to tough love you here. What do you want to make? What fruits do you have available at this time? Figure those 2 things out and then look at some recipes. Make your list from there. Why am I tough loving you? Because some of the chemicals have a shelf life and will expire before you actually need them. And we all hate to waste money!



So you'll need to do that bit of work. But I will tell you that you'll need some bentonite. 


Next!


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## masta (Dec 8, 2005)

WOW!....nothing better than a tough Love Princess.....


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## MedPretzel (Dec 8, 2005)

Not only the princess, but the "med" is gonna do the same treatment:





Betonite is what PWP says. 


I say campden/nutrient/energizer/tannin.


Now that we have that cleared up, whatcha gonna make?





You are familiar with kit wines, thank goodness! The process isn't that much different, only the *time* is. You rarely can make a scratch wine in 28 days. Maybe more like 2.8 months, _if it goes well_. 


Quick check to my stash, should be in any scratch wine stash:
<UL>
<LI>Campden tablets/K-meta</LI>
<LI>Nutrient</LI>
<LI>Energizer</LI>
<LI>Acid blend</LI>
<LI>Pectic enzyme</LI>
<LI>Bentonite, as PWP said</LI>[/list]


That's all I can think of off-hand. 


Optional (and depending on which wine you make): Gelatin finings (gets the oppositely charged poop from the wine as bentonite). Superkleer gets rid of just about anything -- more expensive per gallon wine, but totally worth it.


Make sure you get a fizz-ex and a lot of "filly-franz" (as my husband likes to call it) from George *before* X-mas. he's got a good deal going on shipping before the holidays.


See post "forum specials." 


A filtering system might be in order for your expansion. Sometimes it's just necessary for those (&amp;**&amp;^*&amp;^ wines. What type you get is up to you. I think you know what I'm partial to according to my other posts.





Scratch wines are in your future? Sorry, not affiliated in any way with George, but I love them so much for their quality, and I've posted on all forums that I know about them (as I do with this forum/store):http://www.oldtimeherbs.com Definitely the place to go. All people I've referred there are extremely happy. 





Maybe George and them should join a co-op of sorts?!?





Anyway, products are great, not only my opinion. Others have agreed. I only promote *people* who I _know_ are worthy.


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## MedPretzel (Dec 8, 2005)

Okay, that was the chemical part. Now to the equipment part:





What you need and what you should have are two different things:



<UL>
<LI>i'm a pH dummy, but it somehow helps seasoned winemaekers if you know what the pH is.</LI>
<LI>Ditto to TA (titrable acid)</LI>
<LI>Ditto to sulfite stupid titrette kits (sorry, I'm just a bad user)</LI>[/list]


Fruit/Petal wines? Lalvin 72B-1122 or Montrachet yeast. I have read both are 14% tolerance, but the lalvin tends to leave more aroma to the wine than the montrachet. Both are temp. tolerant and good to use on any scratch wine, IMHO.


I am sure you have a hydrometer. Small extras would be: Brew-belt, carboys in any size (make more rather than less), and lots of corks. Your future scratch wines are gonna be great.


They're much better than kit ones, in my opinion. Who has ever bought (my standard question for newbie scratchers) a chrysanthemum, a marigold, an onion, a blueberry, a daylily, a chocolate mint wine fromt he store? It may not be veryones's liking, but certainly a novelty!


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## smurfe (Dec 8, 2005)

I really dunno what I am gonna make, guess what ever the season brings. We have an abundance of blueberries, strawberry's and Muscadines here, thought I would start there. 


I really wanna see if I can get some Norton grapes to grow here. There is a couple local vineyards that grow them successfully and I love Norton/Cynthiana wine.


Smurfe


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## MedPretzel (Dec 8, 2005)

Grapes are out of my area. Anyone?





Strawberries are great if you blend with something (rhubarb?) Terry Garey has some good suggestions. I would stick to blends with Strawberry if you're going to go with that.





Blueberry? Yay! Just remember that the fermentation takes off like a rocket. Don't transfer to the carboy that quickly.





But for the equipment and chems, I'll remain what I said. Except: Instead of gelatin, go with the bentonite, if you feel you must fine. (You don't have to.) I filteredmine at the way end, but in the long run, I don't think it was really necessary for this fruit wine. A red is more forgiving if you have some sediment at the bottom than a white (simply because you bottle it in a green glass and don't see it). 


The titrette kit is useful, as well as the TA kit thingie. I love my pH meter, so I'm partial to that. I t hasn't really influenced how I make my wines, but it's just great to know the pH.


I will warn you, however... The one thing that hasn't been mentioned here yet (by me either) is .....





_*Patience.*_


You certainly need a lot of it in scratch wine making. Make a couple of kits in between, and you'll sort of forget about the scratch ones.


Why do you think I am doing all these tutorials for you guys? Scratch wines are sort of boring, because they take such a long time. But the results are fantastic, I tell you. No matter what you make, it's great. It all starts with the quality of what you make the wine with.





Keep us posted.


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## Steve (Dec 8, 2005)

Here are all the replies I received when I asked the same question.


 [url]http://www.finevinewines.com/wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8 68&amp;PN=2[/url]


Hope it helps...


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## MedPretzel (Dec 8, 2005)

It seems as though I'm pretty big on the patience thing, huh?


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## smurfe (Dec 8, 2005)

Steve said:


> Here are all the replies I received when I asked the same question.
> 
> 
> http://www.finevinewines.com/wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8 68&amp;PN=2
> ...




You know, now that I read your post, I think that was what got me thinking about all of this. LOL. I guess if I wasn't so scatter brained I could of just referred back to your post. 


Thanks Steve


Smurfe



aka Steve


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## bilbo-in-maine (Dec 9, 2005)

Can't remember if lots of 1 gallon (or 4 liter) glass jugs were on the list in 
Steve's thread, but you need a lot, along with smaller increments in size 
like 3 liter, 1.5 liter and smaller (beer bottles, 387 ml wine bottles). 
Unless you always make big batches of 5-6 gallons to use your carboys, 
the small sizes are necesary. Also smaller food-grade plastic fermenting 
pails if you can find a few. I got 3 from the local whole food store. Mayo 
came in them, in plastic bags inside. They have lids. With the smaller size 
bottles and jugs, you need smaller bungs.

Bill


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## peterCooper (Dec 9, 2005)

Good timing on the question. I'm about to start my first scratch wine as 
well. Think I have everything in place but....

Last night sacked 3/4lb cranberries together with some left over raisins and 
currants from making the christmas cake and mince pies.

Tomorrow, I go and get the apple juice and get started.
*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## jobe05 (Dec 9, 2005)

Smurf, don't forget a good variety of Yeast. Depending on what type of wine or fruits you use, alcohol levels you want, will determine what yeast you want to use, I don't know if there is a yeast chart here, but here is the one that I use often:


http://winemakermag.com/referenceguide/yeaststrainschart/


1 Gallon equipment is a good idea. It's cheap, easy and less expensive for those experiements that go down the drain. I have actually had better luck with scratch gallon batches than I have 3 gallon batches. I went to Home Depot for my two gallon plastic pails and lids. Cost about $4 for each.





Good luck and keep up posted, I know youe=r going to have fun with this.


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## MedPretzel (Dec 10, 2005)

peter, please take some pictures along the way!


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## Waldo (Dec 12, 2005)

Another important item if you are planning on having several different batches going at once is some tags to keep everything marked well as to what it is and where you are at in the process.


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## peterCooper (Dec 13, 2005)

Will do, but I missed the really interesting one of of the cranberry/raisin/
currant slurry. Imagine a brown globby mess in the bottom of a fermenter.


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