# Buying local honey



## spunk

I just found a local honey bee keeper that sells honey. Never had fresh honey like this before. Is there any thing I need to look for or ask when I get it. She said it is watery than I'm used to is that norml? Going to get get a few pints and see what it's like.


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## Runningwolf

Last time I told my wife I wanted to buy the local honey she slapped me and called me a pig!


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## Tenbears

Honey should not be thin and watery. Rather it should be fairly thick slightly thinner than corn syrup. It should have a color consistent with the norm for the Type of honey. Honey should have a moisture content no greater than 18.5 % A moisture content any higher will cause the honey to ferment. Now I know I am talking to wine makers who desire a strong fermentation we are talking about wild yeasts that are un-reliable and un-predictable. a quality raw honey should be filtered with a filter no greater than 200 microns this leaves all the best the bees have to offer within the honey. It also should never be heated above 150 degrees. and NEVER microwaved. 

I find that by talking to the beekeeper about the bees rather than the honey exclusively, one can get a feel for their integrity. if they are enthused and genuinely love their bees then they will do nothing to discredit them. When people visit my honey house they can see my extraction process, they can view the bees in a glass hive inside the building, and they will get a free lecture on "Beehavior", and the social hierarchy within the hive, they will be educated on the varietal honeys and the importance of buying U.S. Or Canadian exclusively. Both from a safety and economical standpoint. And they can sample most any of the honeys we have on hand. This is what I recommend you look for dedication to the bees, the craft, and the customer. 

Make Mead with local Honey and catch the buzz


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## WVMountaineerJack

What 10Bs said, WVMJ


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## spunk

Runningwolf said:


> Last time I told my wife I wanted to buy the local honey she slapped me and called me a pig!



Lol you are ornery. Your funny.


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## spunk

10 B's thanks lot of information. She did say it was a thin honey. Also told me not to get to much as she feels it won't ferment like a year from now. Not sure what she ment. So do you think it's ok to get?


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## seth8530

Pretty much what was said above, except I try to keep my honey below 120 F at all times. Also, I know I am going to sound like a bastard for saying this... But, just because it is local does not mean it is good. I have found in the past it has been worth my while to search around a bit and order from out of state when I need to to ensure I don't get ripped off.

I have had good luck from The Bee Folks for buying bulk and Flying Bee Ranch has also given me some great honey before.


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## Tenbears

spunk said:


> 10 B's thanks lot of information. She did say it was a thin honey. Also told me not to get to much as she feels it won't ferment like a year from now. Not sure what she ment. So do you think it's ok to get?



It is just a suspicion based on what you have said, I do not know the individual, But Quality honey will last decades without spoiling, or loosing it's ability to ferment. IT is basically Sugars. and enzymes, It is also antiseptic. I have some that my farther bottled in the 1930, it is darker than it was back when it was bottled, but it is still a pure great tasting honey. I feel the individual you are talking to may be a new beekeeper who is unsure of their extraction, and bottling procedures. I am also inclined to believe that during the extraction process they extracted honey/nectar from the comb that was not capped. although there may be a small% of the honey in the comb that has reached the proper moisture levels. the bees generally cap the honey when it is ready. Thus uncapped honey in the comb is generally not dehydrated enough to be truly honey. a small amount of this will not harm the honey as most honey is well below the 18.5% moisture levels. The problem arises when too much in allowed in the honey. it reduces the viscosity and allows for fermentation from wild yeasts that can be found everywhere. 

If you will send me your address via Private message I will send you a 6 oz. sampler of my wildflower honey at no charge, enjoy it get to know its flavor, sweetness, and consistency, Now I am not so vain as to propose that it is the measuring stick by which all honey should be judged. But it is as good a quality universal honey as any should be.


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## spunk

Ok so now I'm not sure I want to get any from her I think I will just try a small amount and see. I may take you up on that offer. So I can compair.she called it goldenrod honey.


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## homesteader26

Tenbears - so glad to read that you know so much about honey and bees. I have a friend in Canada who has bees and shipped me a 2 kg container of "honey". It is not what i think of as honey - it is thick and more like honey butter if you will. I am thinking it is some sort of really raw honey but I'm not sure what to do with it. It is thick and creamy color not golden so I think it has a lot of coomb in it. Any ideas/suggestions??


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## Tenbears

homesteader26 said:


> Tenbears - so glad to read that you know so much about honey and bees. I have a friend in Canada who has bees and shipped me a 2 kg container of "honey". It is not what i think of as honey - it is thick and more like honey butter if you will. I am thinking it is some sort of really raw honey but I'm not sure what to do with it. It is thick and creamy color not golden so I think it has a lot of coomb in it. Any ideas/suggestions??



I suspect what your friend sent is honey that has crystalized. In time all unprocessed honey will crystalize. (turn from a fully liquid state to a semi solid)
However it could be creamed honey. Honey that is intentionally crystalized in a specific manner them whipped to a creamy texture. this is often done to make honey spreadable. A great treat on biscuits, or toast without dripping onto your lap. The Difference between the two is Creamed honey will be smooth and creamy The consistency of peanut butter. where as crystalized honey will have a grainy texture as though it has undissolved sugar in it. In both instances they are pure honey. If what you have is creamed honey enjoy It as it is, your friend would have put forth great effort to make it. as the process in not simple. However If as I suspect is the case it is simply honey that has crystalized. it can be used as any honey. In fact you can turn it back to liquid if you like. simply bring a pot of water almost to a boil, remove from heat. place the jar of honey in the water as the heat transfers from the water to the honey the honey will liquefy. it only takes temperatures above 105F for the crystals to turn to liquid. Once liquid it can be used as you use any honey. 
Since this is a wine forum I would suggest using it for a mead or melomel. 2 kg would be an ample amount to try my latest experiment Dragon blood melomel.. You would have to cut it down but I used dangerdave's Dragon Blood recipe and substituted honey for sugar. at a rate of 2/3 cup honey in place of sugar. then tweaked the SG to achieve the 1.075 SG


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## Tenbears

spunk said:


> Ok so now I'm not sure I want to get any from her I think I will just try a small amount and see. I may take you up on that offer. So I can compair.she called it goldenrod honey.



Goldenrod honey is a very light colored honey with a high glucose content very sweet, However some find goldenrod honey distasteful, it has a strong aroma, Ask any farmer who has mowed a goldenrod field. Personally I like it.
Goldenrod honey because of its high glucose crystalizes very rapidly, second only to Canola honey. however, many of my customers tell me it is the best baking honey out there. 
I just made 6.5 gallons of mead from goldenrod honey for the first time so I cannot tell you how it preforms as a single source honey for mead. Maybe someone else can.


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## spunk

So is there anyone else out there that has used golden rod honey mead and what did you think of it?


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## spunk

I got a pint of honey 7.50 taste good. I will tell you a story we had a pussywillow turned into a tree taller than our house. Planted to close to house was messing roof and gutters. Had to take down. Loved it one of the first bloomers. The bees alway came and visited it wasn't anything else out there blooming much yet.You would walk by it and the whole bush hummed like a small moter there were so many. We really hated taking it down. Felt bad they would come back every year.


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## Ferb

Goldenrod honey is not a good tasting homey.. I'm a beekeeper in South Carolina and we take all honey off the hives that isn't being left for the bees to over winter with before the goldenrod blooms. Honey will last forever if the moisture level is below 18%.. As said before it should not be thin or watery..


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## TomK-B

I want to chime in just a little here, also. My wife and I started a small backyard apiary a couple of years ago and I am definitely "hooked on bees." I tell people that I never knew I would ever become so passionate about a bunch of "bugs that sting." I also agree with what 10B's and Ferb are saying about the quality of raw honey. In a side-by-side tasting of my honey against a store-bought honey, you'd want to go up there and slap those people at Kroger for selling that stuff as honey. I might suggest that you do a google search for a local beekeeper's association in your area. Those associations can get you in touch with long-time beekeepers who would probably be happy to sell you their honey.

My wife and I have pretty much sold our harvest from this year. I tried to lay claim to some for making a mead, but it was a "no-go" for this year. Next year, though, I believe I'll be able to talk her out of a little for an "experimental" batch of mead. Hoping so anyway.


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## Tenbears

Ferb said:


> Goldenrod honey is not a good tasting homey.. I'm a beekeeper in South Carolina and we take all honey off the hives that isn't being left for the bees to over winter with before the goldenrod blooms. Honey will last forever if the moisture level is below 18%.. As said before it should not be thin or watery..




To say that goldenrod honey is not good tasting homey is a bit of a misnomer.

It would be like saying that extremely dry wine , or wine with very high alcohol content are not good tasting. although some my agree with either statement. neither is true. I happen to dislike very dry wines, but my wife favors them greatly. The same applies to Goldenrod honey. Although it's powerful aroma tends to put some off, others like it very much. It is sweet and can have a verity of side notes.


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## seth8530

Yeah, I imagine perosnal taste has a lot to play in with peoples honey choices.


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## spunk

Question i have a canned honey recipe that has cloves and lemon wedge and a cinnamon stick in them.I have learned more about honey from this form. Gave it out as christmas presents.The recipe i use boils the honey with spices. Then cans using the boil method for ten minutes. It is good. But now i know that cooking at that level will take a some of the qualities away. I wonder if i could just warm it up to like 120 -130. Then can in boiling canner. Would i still lose flavor? I was thinking to make some of this let it sit for a year. Then use it to make mead like for next winter.


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## seth8530

I would be tempted to make an extract using everklear abd add a small portion of it to the honey


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## Tenbears

There is no need to pressure pack, hot pack honey. the cloves and cinnamon sticks contribute nothing that can infect the honey, Although I am not sure about the pulp from the lemon wedges the acidity in the juice leaves little concern and the rind will not cause spoilage either. Honey is a natural antiseptic, as such creates an environment that prevents spoilage. The warming may help infuse the flavors of the spices, but they do not improve resistance against spoilage. A bit of time would also infuse the spices.


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## Ferb

Ha goldenrod honey smalls like old musty gym shorts.. But to each their own..


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## Tenbears

Ferb said:


> Ha goldenrod honey smalls like old musty gym shorts.. But to each their own..



Of course you are correct all knowing one. ! I will not question your infinite wisdom again. 

It does not matter weather it is the ingredients, techniques, methodology, or formula used in tanning, wine making, baking, auto racing, beekeeping, painting, or any of the other millions of activities participated in by mankind, from the brands we use to the color we prefer. Humans as a whole believe their personal choices are the best there are. 
Most every individual believes they are the perfect example of the creation of mankind,. To chose, use, recommend, or defend as the absolute best in any of the above, that they do not personally use would be a blatant admission that they themselves are imperfect. The rational that “I am perfect, therefore everything I do is perfect. Any other way is also imperfect, for where it the best I would surly use it.” 
It is the circular thinking of the closed mind. A rational that proves itself in its own irrational belief. The thing about this is most people apply this thinking to only a portion of their existence. And set boundaries as to where the rule of application applies. 

For example John Doe uses a synthetic tanning solution to tan his leather. It is the best he says. Clean, environmentally friendly, fast, durable, little shrinkage, Bla bla. 

Although brain tan has bee used for hundreds of years and has stood the test of time John cannot even conceive that brain tan may possibly be just as good, and there is no way he could recognize or admit that under any circumstances it may be better, to do so would make him fallible 

The world is full of different people, even Identical twins have differences in opinion as to likes and dislikes. 

The reality of life is the things an individual chooses are at that point in time are the best, at least for them. And only until something bigger and better comes along in there mind. However, it does not necessarily mean they are the best for everyone under every circumstance. 

Those who benefit most from the great selection and wondrous opportunity to experience the multitude of new and great things our world has to offer, are those who chose to keep an open mind to the possibility that new and different things exist outside their comfort zone. That their knowledge is not absolute!


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## spunk

I got some of the goldenrod honey smells fine and taste good to me. Is not as sweet smelling as the orange blossom but I am happy with it. I would like to try different kinds.


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## Ferb

spunk said:


> I got some of the goldenrod honey smells fine and taste good to me. Is not as sweet smelling as the orange blossom but I am happy with it. I would like to try different kinds.




I still have honey left from this past year. This honey came from some strawberry fields that my bees pollinated, if your interested.


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## Ferb

spunk said:


> I got some of the goldenrod honey smells fine and taste good to me. Is not as sweet smelling as the orange blossom but I am happy with it. I would like to try different kinds.




I still have honey left from this past spring. This honey came from some strawberry fields that my bees pollinated, if your interested.


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## Tenbears

Ferb said:


> I still have honey left from this past spring. This honey came from some strawberry fields that my bees pollinated, if your interested.



You just implied the original poster enjoys the aroma and flavor of "old musty gym shorts.."

And you expect they would like to buy honey from you? " To each their own.."


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## Ferb

Tenbears said:


> You just implied the original poster enjoys the aroma and flavor of "old musty gym shorts.."
> 
> 
> 
> And you expect they would like to buy honey from you? " To each their own.."




Haha no. But if you were yo smell my bee yard in the fall you would know what I'm talking about, it does smell like a locker room.. Maybe what someone else is calling goldenrod is different than what blooms here in SC. This honey was pulled in early August and has hints of strawberry. Very good with an amber color. I'm sorry you took offense to my opinion of what goldenrod honey smelled and tasted like. Maybe commercial processing makes it more mild idk. But the raw form made me gag when I tasted it right out of the hive..


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## Tenbears

It is not I you should apologize to. The OP (original poster) stated they had purchased some of the local goldenrod honey and thought it tasted good. To which you responded. "Goldenrod honey does not taste good. When I pointed out that different individuals have different concepts of likes and dislikes, you emphatically responded with a vile disgusting description of the product the OP was consuming., Implying the OP and any other who liked Goldenrod honey were somehow flawed. You are entitled to your opinion, however, when expressing that opinion is done for no other reason than to belittle another it is wrong. 

You are a beekeeper so that makes your opinion absolute! Well My friend you are about to get an education.

Solidago AKA Goldenrod is the same through the United States with no local variations In all states except Hawaii where it does no grow. The same holds true of Canada where it inhabits it's entirety. It smell, looks, and taste the same everywhere. 

Apis Honey bee of which apis mellifera is the most common of the 27 species within the US. play little role in the pollination of Fragaria (Strawberries) which bloom in April and May By late may the strawberry farms in Virginia are Picking, So I am sure the same is true in your area. Taking into account the number of plants favored by Honeybees blooming during this period, The low nectar production of strawberries combined with the fact the majority of them bloom at a time when bees are busy trying to strengthen their depleted overwintered colonies leaves little excess honey production that can be attributed to Strawberries, A pollen count of honey extracted in August from hives sitting on a strawberry fields of immense acreage would reveal less than 4% Strawberry pollen. Hardly enough to consider let alone effect flavor. 
When One calls into question the ability of another to distinguish flavor, they really should be sure their own is accurate. 

And yes I know what goldenrod smells like, I have farmed all my life, I have mowed more goldenrod than many a city boy has ever seen. and I have done hive checks on all of my from 12 to 1000 hives during August-October, I also know the smell of purple sage being mowed on the western slope. Both are pungent, but sweet to those who love the earth they sprang from. 

Care to discuss Neonicitoids?


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## seth8530

Yeah, it is often good too bee careful whenever you bash on something that someone might end up liking. But, all in all ya know to each his own when it comes to personal taste right?


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## Ferb

Haha you are so very sensitive.. I explained once that no offense was ment.. And of corse you are the authority on this and all subjects.. I humbly step down. The crown is and has always been yours. Your grace  Roar on my friend


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## Ferb

Spunk I apologize if I have offended


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## Tenbears

Ferb said:


> Haha you are so very sensitive.. I explained once that no offense was ment.. And of corse you are the authority on this and all subjects.. I humbly step down. The crown is and has always been yours. Your grace  Roar on my friend



Maybe if you did not preface every reply with Ha, or HAHA one would take your condescending comments with an err of sincerity.


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## spunk

Ferb ok excepted. I do like the honey I bought I'm sure that there are different degrees and flavors of honey. Some I bet are knock out great others good. Different flavors I don't know I only have tried orange blossom from kroger grocery store organic though and the goldenrod I have now. And of course clover honey that easily found at the store. Which I'm sure doesn't count a lot of these have added corn syrup in it anyhow.what I bought doesn't have a strong odor or taste maybe it has other flowers in it. Any how I have enjoyed all the information I am getting about bees and honey from everybody. If I call her and she says she can get me more is that ok it is late in the season. Also about 18 outside I just want enough to make some mead.


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## Tenbears

Spunk Depending on how much mead you wish to make, it does not take a lot of honey. A mead with a lower alcohol content requires less honey than one with high alcohol content. I have made a gallon with just over a pound of honey. determining the tolerances of your yeast, and setting your specific gravity to be fermented to where you want your alcohol content to be is the trick. I learned to make mead a long tome ago. Before computers, and easy access the wisdom of others. In a day when 17 year olds could not even check wine or mead making literature from the local library. So I depended on information given to me from an old man, So some of the techniques I use may not be up to date. However I can assure you they work, I like to make large batches rather than small for a number of reasons, 1 it takes a long time to finish a mead, 2 it is easier to adjust a larger batch, 3 I like meads. 

lets suppose you want to make a mead with between 11 and 14% alcohol.

The basics are: start with a gallon of water. add un-crystalized honey and stir, Checking specific gravity (SG) frequently. Since SG of 1.095 has a potential alcohol of 12.9% and a SG of 1.100 has a potential alcohol of 13.6% I would look to set my starting SG within those parameters. I would then add 3/4 tsp acid blend, kmet per manufactures instruction. and let stand 24 hours. yeast nutrient per manufactures directions and yeast. For this I would choose Red Star Cote Des Blanc because it has an alcohol tolerance of 14% and brings out any fruity flavors in the honey. I start it right in the carboy, holding out 2 quarts of must without yeast until the initial Aerobic fermentation, then top the carboy with it. Allow to ferment to dryness. Rack and let sit 30 to 45 days. Then rack and let stand until clear, rack again, as needed every 30 to 45 days until no sediment falls in a 30 day period. If you like your mead sweeter, Mix honey with just enough water to make to poor easily add 1/4 tsp potassium sorbate per cup to prevent re-fermentation sweeten to taste. let stand a week and bottle. allow to age at least 6 months. 
It is fairly simple, but time is important. Mead Oxidizes easily so the carboy should always be topped off to minimize surface area, and when racking the mead should have no fall from the syphon tube. Good luck and enjoy.


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## spunk

Thanks I made a mead this past Feb I bottled it up this past summer my first. It turned out really good drank some and saving rest for a year or more. Still learning as I go most recipies I have read have around 3 lbs or so. That is what I used on mine this past winter. It turned out well so I think I want to keep it that way I think i'll try adding fruit this time. It turned out better than my first wines.


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## spunk

I really want to make another mead do you think it is ok to mix different kinds of honey's for one mead? Thanks


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## Ferb

Absolutely


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## Tenbears

spunk said:


> I really want to make another mead do you think it is ok to mix different kinds of honey's for one mead? Thanks



Most assuredly. When you take into consideration, with the exception of honey from supers placed Immediately prior to a bloom favored by bees, and removed immediately after, most honey is a mixture of different verities of nectar when extracted. Hence the reason a lot of honey is labeled Wild flower honey.


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## spunk

I bought some more honey a quart of wild flower wow wow is it good. I want to make blueberry bergamot and maybe a bit of lemon verbena. Honey is so good im getting another quart want some just to eat.


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