# Greg's North Dakota Vineyard



## GreginND

I am starting this thread to document the beginning of my vineyard and winery in North Dakota. I acquired a 12 acre farmstead this Spring and am trying to prepare the site for planting grapes next spring.

You may have seen my post about finding herbicide contamination in the soil. I will continue to update that as it develops. But I think I will be able to move forward with the vineyard sooner rather than later.

Here is an arial view of the site with areas marked out for future planting. The largest area to the East I call the eastern vineyard may have contamination (to be determined). And is about 3/4 of an acre. The area south of the house will be a smaller, more visible, southern vineyard. It is nicely situated along the driveway and road. It's about 1/4 of an acre. There is an old concrete silo base in that area that I plan to build a gazebo on for picnics in the vineyard.


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## GreginND

And I have my soil analysis results back. Soil was sampled at 12" and not separated into 6" layers. 

East Vineyard:

pH: 7.8 (high but should be ok if I choose the right grape varieties)
N: 112 lb/acre
P: 215 ppm
K: 2474 ppm
Organic matter: 8.6%
Ca: 3453 ppm
Mg: 4.2 ppm

Most trace elements very high, sodium is low.


South vineyard:

pH: 7.5
N: 10 lb/acre
P: 5 ppm
K: 374 ppm
Organic matter: 6.4%
Ca: 4006 ppm
Mg: 1195 ppm

Most trace elements medium to high, sodium is medium.

While N and P are a little low I will not add more at this time. I will wait to get the grapes established and then adjust based on tissue tests.


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## grapeman

You are going to be challenged with vigor, so you might want grafted vines on a rootstock that helps control vigor. 

Keep us up to date on your progress!


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## Runningwolf

Greg thanks for sharing. What about elderberry bushes near the wet areas?


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## GreginND

Grafted vines may be a possibility. Some of my grapes are coming from cuttings for free so I am not sure yet what I will be sourcing from the nurseries. 

The east vineyard will be challenging for sure. I think a trellising system that will work with the vigor and a well planned cover crop will be on my list of things to read up on. 

Elderberries are on my list. Can they fight with the grasses and weeds?


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## Corley5

The previous owners were feeding hay comtaminated with Tordon at high enough levels to have left residue that is still killing broadleafs and the animals survived?


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## GreginND

Tordon affects sensitive plants like tomatoes and beans at the part per billion level of concentration. It is a plant growth regulator. It is essentially non toxic to animals. It has an LD50 (lethal dose where 50% die) similar to table salt. That's the good news. I can still safely eat the corn that grows. It passes intact through the animals in the urine and is excreted quickly without causing adverse affects.


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## GreginND

I have taken soil samples of the manure piles, around the garden area and in a grid pattern in the east and south pastures. I have potted them up and planted pea seeds. Once they sprout and grow I will be able to determine how widespread the picloram contamination is. On a positive note there are dandelions in the northeast corner of the east pasture and clover growing in the lawn around the house. That would mean no contamination there.


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## UBB

Where in ND? Also, check out the ND grape Growers Assoc website if you haven't already. There is a listserv. set up that you can get on. Lots of knowledgeable people who are willing to answer pretty much any question.


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## GreginND

I live in Fargo but my site is located near Casselton.

The peas are sprouting and I expect to be able to see any contamination within a few weeks. Based on how my garden is showing spotty problems and some is recovering, I'm hopeful the amount of contamination is low. 

Yesterday I sprayed both the east and the south vineyard areas with glyphosate to kill off the quack grass and other weeds. I plan to break up the ground and till it well in a few weeks. I will then see what weeds grow, spray and till one more time. I hope to get some ground cover grass seed planted in August so it can get a start before winter. Come next spring I should have the start of a nice grass covered vineyard to make my rows in.

Any suggestions on ground cover for the fertile east pasture and the less nutrient dense south pasture?


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## GreginND

Well, it's been 12 days and the peas are starting to grow. Here are two pictures. The first one is a sample of manure from a pile near the vegetable garden mixed with some potting soil. The second sample is from one of the south pasture sites. Can you see a difference?











The encouraging news is that it appears most of the contamination is near and around the barn and the vegetable garden where there is lots of horse manure. So far the south pasture samples are all growing well and soil from the east pasture looks mostly good too. I have to let these go a couple more weeks and repeat a few that did not germinate.


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## grapeman

Wow what a difference!


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## GreginND

The east pasture two weeks after being sprayed. The quack grass and weeds are dying nicely. I need to break up the ground and do a more comprehensive bioassay on the site by planting a cover crop.


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## GreginND

I have been thinking about what varieties and trellis systems to use for my two vineyards. 

The east vineyard is about 3/4 of an acre. The rough dimensions are 140 ft x 225 feet. I think I can get 12 rows with about 10 feet in between. I may have to squeeze them a little bit tighter but I don't want to get them too close. I will likely have a road E to W down the middle so each row will actually be split into two 100 foot rows N to S.

For the grapes. I am thinking about 3 reds and 3 whites:

Marquette
Petite Pearl
Frontenac

Brianna
Frontenac Blanc
Frontenac Gris

These should be hardy enough for my climate. The soil is super fertile so I expect vigor to be a problem. So, I am considering trellis systems that would have 4 cordons per vine. I have been considering Rich's modified GDC or similar design. However, given our climate I wonder if a lower fruiting zone may be better. If cold die off occurs having the cordons lower may be safer. I thought a Scott Henry system might be a better choice. I think this would make netting the fruit easier too.

Questions: With my fertile soil, what would be the expected vigor for these six varieties? Am I on the right track to tame that with 4 cordons? What other things do I need to consider for this vineyard?

The smaller south vineyard (50 x 130) will be mostly for ambiance. I will put in 3 or 4 100 foot rows. Customers will be able to walk through it and I will have a gazebo nearby. I am looking for one red and one white variety that will be hardy and take as little care as possible. I think I can make a sweeter style wine from these grapes. I will probably do a standard VSP trellis. This soil is less fertile and I think a two cordon system will work.

Comments? Suggestions? Other varieties?


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## grapeman

What is you normal low temperature for the winter? Those varieties will not have much dieback before about 30-35 below zero. With extreme vigor, the Scott-Henry will become a jungle. I have had to spend a TON of time on them this year as the Marquette is crawling everywhere with the Scott Henry. You need to hack it back a lot and the botton shoots are crawling all over the ground. I was working them last Thursday trimming and leaf pulling over the fruit when a yellow-jacket nailed my wrist. I was about to go for the epi-pen as my breathing was getting worse with wheezing and I was dizzy. I took benadryl and sat in the air-conditioned room and took it easy the rest of the day. Two days later I needed to take benadryl every few hours as the hives came back. (sORRY i GOT SIDETRACKED HERE). The point is, the Mod GDC has yet to need any canopy work while all the others have had major time spent on them.


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## GreginND

I am right on the edge of zone 4a and 3b. -35 is possible. We usually get a week or so stretch where the high temps are -10 or lower. I have seen -20's but not -30's the last few years. Actually the growers around here had more winter kill this year with our mild winter and frequent thaws. One vineyard 10 miles west had his established Marquette die to the ground. It came back but he has to retrain them. I would love to grow la crescent but it is very spotty here. I have only seen vsp trellises around here. I really like your modified gdc. But do I risk more losses with the trunks so high given our climate? Would this ytem work well for all six of those varieties?

Thanks for your advice.


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## grapeman

I don't know if it will die back more or not. It would take a bit longer to retrain in case of a loss, but not sure how much distance to ground affects freezing damages. I think you are truly on the edge of the growing area there if it gets that cold that often.


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## GreginND

Yes, that is the challenge in North Dakota. NDSU now has a grape breeding program being aided by the folks down in the Twin Cities. They have several test plots around the state deep into zone 3 looking to find even hardier grapes. Tom Plocher (who developed petite pearl) is also working on our challenges here. We're hopeful in the future that we'll have grapes that will survive. Some of the riparia they are breeding with were vines found in some of our coldest regions of ND and Saskatchewan. The varieties I chose above are some of the best quality grapes that seem to be surviving here.

This past winter was unusually warm and we had very little snow cover. I think thats what caused trouble with my neighbor's marquette. On the other hand my other friend just 5 miles east of that vineyard had marquette come through just fine.

It looks like you are in a pocket of zone 4b nominally zone 5a. Wish I had that extra 10 degrees in the winter.


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## tatud4life

That is some beautiful land you have there!!! I can't believe the difference in those peas!! I can only imagine what those horses were eating.


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## grapeman

Yeah, the map is off a bit. We are in the zone 5a and the area listed as that is 4b. Where I am is a solid 5-7 degrees higher. I think the error comes in where the temperature sensors are located and extrapolated.

You do indeed have the best varieties listed for hardiness. Contact U Minn and see if you can get some Mn1200 (sister to Marquette-Mn1211). It has better winter resistance than Marquette, but the grapes are smaller. It makes a complex wine- more so than any hybrid I have ever worked with. Talk with or e-mail Peter Hemstad. If he would allow it, I could get you cuttings this coming winter and you could root them. They are the easiest to root vines I have ever grown.

Also Petite Amie (white) developed in central Minnesota by David McGregor is extremely cold hardy with zero bud damage here even in the coldest winters.


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## GreginND

It's about time for an update. I was able to get the east and south pastures tilled up before the ground froze so it's all ready for planting in the spring. I have already ordered 100 petite pearl, 75 marquette and 75 frontenac blanc vines. I'm working with some friends to get cuttings of brianna. I'm planning on putting in the east vineyard this coming year. Planting party is set for Memorial Day weekend.

In the meantime, it's been cold outside so I've been working on the inside of the farm house that will host the winery and tasting room. Here are some pictures of the tasting area before and after painting.

The ugly before shot:







After the first coat of paint. That dark green took 3 coats.






And here are some pictures after I finished cleaning up.
















And an obligatory sunset.


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## ibglowin

Very nice!


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## Pumpkinman

Greg, very impressive.
I was looking at the soil test results, since reading test results is one of the free (yep, I said it, free) services that I provide my customers, I'm very interested in hearing how you amended the soils and how you balanced both vineyards.
How is the herbicide contamination issue going?
Thanks,
Tom


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## Runningwolf

Greg the place is really coming along nice. Lauri says "Hi" by the way. I look forward to seeing the ever evolving results. It was really cool to see Grapeman all through his process of building and production with his winery.


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## tatud4life

Very nice Greg!!! You are doing a fabulous job!


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## grapeman

Looking great there Greg. It won't be long and all your spare time will be gone. LOL


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## GreginND

Tom, I'm not going to do anything with the soil now. If anything I have to worry about the soil in the east vineyard being too fertile. I will plant grass between the rows to suck up some of the nitrogen. In the south vineyard I am not going to do anything until I see how the grapes are growing. These soil samples were 12" samples so the top soil and sub soil were mixed. I suspect there are more nutrients in the top 6" than what these numbers are telling me. Salt is low, so I'm happy about that. And I think the high pH won't be a problem for the hybrids I'm going to grow.

Dan, thanks. Please give my best to Lauri. I was hoping to run in to her at the AWS conference in Portland, but I didn't see her there. Grapeman is truly an inspiration and has provided me with invaluable insight. Thanks Rich!!


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## K-9

really nice place, nice name and love the symbolic gestures.


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## mcguirevalley

Hi Greg, I have a vineyard in se,MN.
Have you considered Louis Swenson, for a white grape. ES 10 -18-75 would grow up there. I have made some really nice wine from that. A French hybrid like Pinstripes might make it. They have all lived through -29 in my vineyard with no winter pertection. Let me know if you are interested, I could send you some cuttings.

Thanks
Dean McGuire


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## K-9

never heard of pinstripes.... can you tell me more...


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## mcguirevalley

Pinard. (Auto spell check,sorry) its a sister plant to Leon millot and foch. But more cold Hardy.


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## rob

If you want to prune by Brianna in the spring you can have all you want! Lol


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## GreginND

Thanks everyone. I am only going to have about 500 vines total on my property. I hope to source more grapes from other growers. I chose these 6 varietals because of the wines and styles I plan to make from my "estate" grapes. I am right on the edge of zone 3 so some varietals still may be difficult. La Crescent, for example, is a grape I really love but it has been spotty in terms of hardiness here. I'll buy La Crescent from other growers. 

Dean, if you have some Pinard, I would love to test out a few vines. I don't know of anyone around here growing it. I'm always looking for something unique. I'd be pleased if you could send me a few cuttings.

Has anyone ever grown ES 5-4-71? I really love the wine this grape makes. Very floral reminiscent of Alsatian wines. Unfortunately this grape has some die off every year also.


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## grapeman

I would think the Petite Amie would be hardy enough since even in a year with -22F there was 0 bud damage here. It is very floral and reminescent of the Muscat in its lineage. It is a bit slow to establish, but has wonderful looking clusters once it is grown up a bit.


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## K-9

Thanks for the info - never heard of it.


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## GreginND

Petite amie could be possible. I don't know of anyone growing it.

FYI - Fargo temp extremes in January and February can be pretty brutal. 60 degrees or more difference in temps in the same month.

For example, here are the max low and max high for January in Fargo for the last 20 years. We can swing from -35 to +35 in the same month. My vineyard is more exposed and a few degrees cooler than this.


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## grapeman

I'm glad we don't get that cold here! It may be too cold for the Petite Amie, but that might work. You could try a few.


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## mcguirevalley

Hi Greg just send me your address and I will mail some off. Email is [email protected]


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## UBB

Looks really nice! Interesting the difference in growing conditions in our small State. In my little slice of South Central ND the LaCrescent is doing better then the Marquette.


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## GreginND

Yes, I heard this last "mild" winter was tough on Marquette out there. 

I really like La Cresent and will definitely be looking to purchase some grapes from other growers. If I get my licenses in place by summer I'll be looking for grapes to use next fall.


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## GreginND

Well, with the new paint on the walls, the big old black tasting bar stuck out like a sore thumb. So I painted it to match my color scheme. It's actually a richer and warmer red than these photos show - not so purpely.


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## Runningwolf

Looks nice Greg. Are you going to leave the top as it or cover it?


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## grapeman

Well that is a nice piece of woodworking. Not so sure about the color as it appears though. I bet it does look better in person.


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## GreginND

I'm going to put glass on top of it. 

The color is not accurate. It is not purple at all. When the light dims it almost looks red-brown. I'll get better pictures when it dries and I have everything put back together.


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## GreginND

By the way, I picked this up at a local estate sale for only $200. I think the owner got it from a rural North Dakota church. He had it painted flat black but I can tell underneath it used to be white with gold columns. I can see this alter in some of the lutheran churches around these parts.


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## Runningwolf

Greg, maybe you should go to one of those sites on the internet where you can get ordained. Now you be able to perform and host weddings.


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## GreginND

It's a cold night tonight and going to dip down to about -20°F. I was out at the winery this evening painting some more rooms. The air was crisp and crystal clear! I can't wait to share the farm with the public.


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## the_rayway

Looks wonderful Greg!


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## GreginND

Thanks. The picture doesn't do it justice. The moon was bright and whatever planet that is next to the moon was striking.


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## BobR

Oh...My....Gosh, that is just too darn cold! Since you were used to Michigan winters, maybe it does not bother you, but waking up to 4 degrees here is too cold for me. We really got spoiled last winter with all of the mild temperatures. I was looking at Mackinac Island, MI webcam this morning. We enjoy that place in the summer, but this morning it is snow covered and -3. Pretty to look at, but I don't know how those people live, especially with no cars on the island.


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## grapeman

So how cold did it get last night? -20F is cold but you guys can get even colder there. I know it is bad enough here right now as it is going to be about -12 here tonight and tomorrow night with a high of about 0. Keep warm!


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## ibglowin

Beautiful pic Greg. That was Jupiter next to the moon.


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## GreginND

Thanks Mike. Jupiter was gorgeous.

It got down to about -16 last night I think. It's -10 now. We may break 0 this afternoon.


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## the_rayway

Are you guys talking in Fahrenheit? Must be, because I'm thinking that sounds awfully warm for North Dakota! It's been hovering around -30c here for us (-22f). The sun dogs have been out!


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## GreginND

Yes, this is in F. 

It's going to dip down to about -20 again tonight. And by Monday we will be 50 degrees warmer - near freezing! The cold is not the problem for grapes. These swings are.


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## Fabiola

GreginND said:


> Well, with the new paint on the walls, the big old black tasting bar stuck out like a sore thumb. So I painted it to match my color scheme. It's actually a richer and warmer red than these photos show - not so purpely.



Beautiful design...


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## GreginND

A local Arby's restaurant went out of business and I scored a huge 3-tub sink and a commercial 50 pound scale in an on-line auction. Brand new this would be well over $3000 minimum. I picked it up for $500. I'm pretty happy. The sink needs to be cleaned up but it is in near perfect shape. I got the faucets and sprayers with it too.


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## ibglowin

Nice score!


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## grapeman

Those will surely be a useful addition to your place.


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## BobR

Looking good Greg!


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## GreginND

We've been making progress on the upstairs. It will be a nice space for holding events.







Lots more photos here in my blog post:

http://4elementswinery.com/upstairs-progress/


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## GreginND

It was a beautiful sunny day today. I spent the afternoon working on the winery. I recently acquired a free countertop with a sink. It's 130 inches long so plenty of room for working on. But I needed to build a base for it. Fortunately I have a fair amount of spare lumber around the farm. This turned out pretty darn sturdy.


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## BobR

Looks real nice!!


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## grapeman

That will certainly come in handy Greg. Nice picture of the winery also. Nice approach.


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## GreginND

Saturday was planting day. We had twenty five people come out and help us. We managed to get 325 vines in the ground in less than two hours. I am amazed at how many people will work for free and who now feel part of the winery. I let people make a plant marker with their name and mark a vine that they planted. That way every time they come to the vineyard they can visit their vines. Here are a few pictures. I posted many more on my winery blog http://4elementswinery.com/we-now-have-a-vineyard/.

Massive roots on these vines:






Marking the vineyard:






Me planting the first vine:






People digging:






People planting:






The vineyard and barn:






And treasures found digging in the old pasture:







A lot more pictures here: http://4elementswinery.com/we-now-have-a-vineyard/


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## Pumpkinman

Very Impressive!


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## grapeman

Well it was a long time coming, but now you have the first brood of "children" to watch grow up. It must have gone quickly with that much help. Good luck.


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## ibglowin

Congrats on getting them all in the ground! Will you be adding grow tubes?


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## grapeman

Mike those peach colored things are grow tubes.


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## ibglowin

O jeez, didn't look close enough! They all looked the same color as the piece of what looks like wood trim (molding) behind the wrench......


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## fivebk

Greg, 

Your vineyard looks great!!! There's nothing like planting your first vines and watching them grow. NOW the real work begins. I wish you good luck good luck with everything.

BOB


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## GreginND

Thanks everyone. I am excited to see them grow. I just wish I had my trellis posts in before the planting but our late winter kind of set me back. I hope to get this done in July so I can get a training wire set up.

And we are making progress with the winery finishing. Should have the inside pretty much done in a couple weeks and then my contractor will start on the decks. Trying to keep my bank account in the black but that is difficult.


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## GreginND

Well, after a week of solid rain after planting and lots of good sunshine after that, the vines are really starting to leaf out and grow. But so is the common mallow! I've been on the road for a week and a friend just sent me pictures of the vineyard. I'll be out of town for another week yet. Looks like I have a lot of work to do when I get home. Since the soil was all tilled up earlier and should be loose, I'm hoping I can just pull my drag harrow through there and pull up the weeds. I don't really want to spray roundup while my vines are young and tender. Though the grow tubes should protect them.


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## ibglowin

Yep, them's so mighty happy weeds! LOL


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## grapeman

Wow, I have never seen as much of that stuff growing anywhere before. Impressive! Oh wait, you aren't actually growing it!!!!?!?!??!?!? I hope the vines do as well.


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## GEM

Boy can I relate to your weeds. My vines are a year old, on their second year and weeds have continued to be an issue. I think they always will be. Since I am in So. Calif, groundcover is not much of an option due to the high cost of water here. I hope you can till your rows or grow some good groundcover. I for one had a darn hard time getting the weeds killed. I spread a vineyard groundcover this year and still had a million weeds to contend with. The outcome was that I had to Roundup everything. Oh the joy of vineyard management! Anyway, welcome to a great adventure and too your winery too. Gary


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## BobR

grapeman said:


> Wow, I have never seen as much of that stuff growing anywhere before. Impressive! Oh wait, you aren't actually growing it!!!!?!?!??!?!? I hope the vines do as well.



Ooooo, nothing like kicking a guy when he's down.......or in this case, while he is off enjoying a few weeks hitting all of the nice wineries in Michigan!
Hmmm, on second thought, that was a nice jab.


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## GreginND

Anyone have a good recipe for mallow wine? Man, I hate this stuff. I didn't realize how many seeds were kicked up when we tilled last year. I think I will have to try to spray it to kill it off and then get grass established ASAP.


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## grapeman

This sounds like it is difficult to control http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/hort/news/hortmatt/2004/28hrt04a5.htm so you may have a real problem for a while with it. I have seen it here before but the weeds are sparse. It must have been a plains wildflower type weed and really flourished. Good luck with it Greg.


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## GreginND

I got home from my two week trip on Monday evening. And the vineyard was worse than I could have imagined. We had lots of rain while we were gone with a huge 8 inch downpour a few days before. The weeds are growing over the top of the grow tubes and there is standing water in places in the vineyard. The ground is so wet and muddy that I can't get any equipment in to do anything about the weeds. And to top it all off after I took these pictures we got another 4+ inches of heavy rain last night with local flooding. I'm afraid what I'll find when I go out to the vineyard this evening. All I can do is hope the vines survive their wet feet and that things dry out quickly. I have to first mow down the weeds and then till it up again. I may try to spray but it has been too windy for that lately.


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## grapeman

That's a real job ahead Greg. Sounds like you have the same rains we do here.


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## HillPeople

Oh man! 3' Mallow and standing water. You have my sympathy Greg. All I'm contending with at present is Rose Chafers!


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## GreginND

Well, my worst fears were realized. The storm on Tuesday dumped almost 5 inches of rain on top of the 8 inches we had a week ago. About 25% of the vines are standing in 3-5 inches of water. The rest are in soggy saturated muck. I was hoping my vines would get moisture this year but not this much. I only found one vine that is dead. All the rest were growing well but some in the water show some signs of stress. This unprecedented water is flooding all the farms and the creek is well over it's banks and flooding the pasture all the way up to my old tractor shed. The weather forecast looks good for the next 10 days. I need some drying out asap. 

Between my wife and I we spent 8 hours pulling weeds by hand from around every vine. At least they can get some sun now.

How long can the vines survive with wet feet like this?


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## BobR

I feel for you professor! It's times like this that make you realize just how small you are in comparison to the forces of nature and my gosh, they are talking about more flooding around Fargo. After all of your time, money and hard work, I hope things work out for you.


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## GreginND

Well, it looks like a spell of dry weather is here finally. I am hopeful. Things could be worse. If you haven't read the thread about Bob's farm and vineyard being devastated by the Missouri river flooding a couple of years ago, you should. My problems pale in comparison. If he can have grapes survive after two months under 5+ feet of water, I am hopeful mine will be ok.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f25/kennell-estates-vineyard-winery-25338/index8.html#post334329


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## grapeman

I was thinking the same thing Greg. Good luck drying out. We are getting another round tomorrow. Yesterday where I was we got three inches of rain in two hours, but luckily at home only .3 of an inch- up to about 7 inches for June so far with another few inches expected tomorrow. Where is the ark?


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## Runningwolf

Good luck Greg, I always think about Bob and what he went through when I hear about rain in the vineyards. He lead us through the entire story from rising waters to rebuilding. I hope he saved the entire story and pictures to pass down to his grand kids. Again good luck and keep pulling those weeds while it's easier. I imagine you'll need to spray the vines also first chance you get.


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## fivebk

Greg, Hang in there. I found out that grape vines can take quite a bit of abuse from good ole mother nature. What type of soil do you have? The soil my vineyard was on was sandy loam. I think that if the water recedes and your ground drains quickly you'll be ok. It never hurts to ask the man upstairs for a little help!! I'll throw a little prayer your way.

BOB


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## GreginND

Thanks. The creek (well, drainage ditch) has already dropped a couple of feet and the water is draining out of the vineyard. Went from about 25% under water to about 5% in one day. I have loamy soil but with tons if organic material. It does hold moisture some and I'll be grateful for that some day. Looks like a week of dry weather will allow the water table to finally drop. 

If I can get a good non windy day I'll spray it. I do have round up but was recommended to use rely instead. Need to find some. Unless you think careful application of roundup would be ok?


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## HillPeople

It's pretty much a northern rainforest up here in central NH. Way too much rain lately and not nearly enough sun. The ferns are around 4' tall, mosquitoes will eat you alive and flash flood warnings out for the next few days. In this picture you can see the blue tubes in our upper vineyard just behind the hummingbird coming into the feeder. Crazy stuff.


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## GreginND

Well, the water has all dried up and I was able to mow down all of the weeds. Today was a nice calm day so I took the chance and carefully sprayed it all with round-up. Crossing my fingers that there is no spray on vines that have already cleared the tubes. I hit a couple of vines that had a straggling shoot out of the bottom so I quickly cut them off right after they got hit with the spray.

I hate to use glyphosate but I really have no choice. It seems to be the only thing that will get this mallow. As soon as it's died off I'm going to get grass established.


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## grapeman

Glad it has dried up for you. We are still getting flooded with rains every day.


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## fivebk

Are your grapes looking ok after the water receded? 

BOB


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## GreginND

Time for an August update.

After probably 2 feet of rain in June, July brought only 0.5 inches. And I'm perfectly fine with that. The vines look great and the weeds are easier to control. Since the soil held so much water, I'm hoping that the moisture is slowly receding down from the top so that the vines are able to grow their roots down deeper without being stressed. So far so good.

I have managed to mow and spray and beat the weeds back. It remains for me to get my trellis posts installed and seed the rows with grass.
















More photos: http://4elementswinery.com/august-vineyard-update/


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## UBB

Looks great. My new plantings are a bit behind yours by the looks of it. When do you plan on removing the tubes??


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## GreginND

It's been a while since I did an update. After a long cold winter with less snow the vineyard is emerging and it's time to think about pruning. The long stretch of bitter cold sent the frost lines around here down 8 feet or more in places. Here are some pictures from this past winter and now when the soil has started to thaw and the snow is gone. 

I need to examine the vines carefully but it looks like the canes from last year's growth are pretty brown. My plan is to prune them close to the ground and grow some proper trunks this year. Any advice on how to prune them and what to look for when I'm pruning would be much appreciated.


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## grapeman

If you are pruning back, just prune down to where you are leaving tow or three buds to make sure at least one is good. Are you going for single or double trunks? Not sure what we are looking at in the last couple pictures, except for brown grass. I don't see any vines there.


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## GreginND

The first one is the vineyard without the snow. The dormant vines are hard to see. The second one - the vineyard is behind the fence.

By the way, I have had some advice from our university folks. Because my soil is so rich, it may encourage bull canes. They suggest I let 5-6 canes grow and select moderately sized ones for the trunk later. I think I will grow two trunks but I still haven't made the final decision to do a TWC or something like your mod-GDC. I want to see the vigor first. As you can see I don't have my trellis in yet. The posts and at least a guide wire will be installed this spring.


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## grapeman

They certainly are hard to see against the soil.
They may be right about the excessive vigor to where you need to leave more buds to spread the energy. I have had vines make more growth than that the first year and never had problems with bull canes cutting back to the 2-3 buds. They grew very quickly, but were not bull canes as the internode spacing was only in the 4-5 inch range.


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## GreginND

I pruned all my vines today. I was considering trying to save some canes for trunks, but decided to take all the vines down near the ground and let new canes push up. Mainly because I did no training last year and the canes were not very straight. These should push lots of growth this year, so I'm not too worried. I was very pleased to see all of the vines were healthy and alive and vibrant green.


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## GreginND

It's been a cool wet spring so far. But today I am finally seeing some bud swelling. Won't be long!!


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## BobR

That is sure a welcome sight!


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## GreginND

Update after another fun planting weekend.

The grape vines that were planted last year grew well and went dormant for the winter just fine. The first year of a vineyard is all about letting the plants establish a good root system. So they were just left to grow as much as possible. In March I pruned the vines down close to the ground with the intention of letting a few good buds near the base grow this year. I will select one or two of the best for my trunk of the vines. As you can see, the vines are starting to burst with growth:
















This weekend I had another planting party to establish a small vineyard near the entrance to the property. Eighty Frontenac vines were put in with the help of volunteers. It was a beautiful day and the work went quickly.





















Afterwards we had lunch and got to sample some of my experimental offerings:


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## the_rayway

Looks great Greg!

How did the MN1200 come out?


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## fabrictodyefor

Yikes, all the over there by Fargo! Looked at a map to see if maybe you were closer to the SW corner of the state! But you never know when a bike ride will take us that way. Looks like you had a great day. And I'll admit I would never have thought you could grow wine grapes this far north, but then I don't know much about growing grapes, just drinking the altered version! Thanks for the pictures.


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## grapeman

It is starting to take shape Greg. Before you know it, you will be in operation. Have the weeds started to grow yet? Hope the mallow is better behaved this year for you.


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## mgmarty

That's amazing Greg. Looks like tons of fun. Your lucky to get all that help! 


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


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## BobR

Looking GOOD Greg!


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## GreginND

Yes, the mallow is already sprouting by the millions. My plan right now is to keep all the weeds down with my mower for the moment. I am getting posts delivered soon and will get my trellises put up. Once that is done I'm going to disc or till it all up again and plant grass. Unless the weeds get too out of control, I don't think I'm going to spray.


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## blackspanish777

Greg looks awesome! Can't wait to do mine in the future!


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## LittleBearGameFarm

Looks awesome and great thread. Been thinking about planting some and this thread helps a lot!


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## OilnH2O

Interesting to see how your vines are doing compared to the same/similar dates over here. Nice job - and nice barn!


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## GreginND

The grapes are growing great! And so are the weeds. We finally got our trellis posts so they will start going in soon. Once that's done I'll get grass planted in the vineyard and it should be looking good.


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## ibglowin

Greg has wood!


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## grapeman

ibglowin said:


> Greg has wood!


 
And it looks nice and long, but a bit skinny...........................


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## grapeman

And the fun putting in the trellis is about to begin.


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## GreginND

I definitely need to get my wood into the holes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## ibglowin

Amen Brother!


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## Runningwolf

Lay 'em straight!


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## GreginND

Well, it looks like my newly planted frontenac vineyard was hit with an herbicide probably from the neighboring soybean field. Ugh. I have to find out how to contact the farmers. It's not so easy as they don't live right there. Fortunately it does not look like a growth regulator herbicide. The stems turned black, leaves that got hit are malformed and spotty, but new growth looks unaffected. So, they should recover. But if these were fruiting vines I'd have lost my crop. Definitely need to have some conversations. It's been real windy here the last few weeks and they should NOT have been spraying in 20 mph winds. I'm hoping the vines will recover and be healthy enough to overwinter this year.

Does anyone know where I can get those big signs to put around the edge of my property warning that there are herbicide sensitive crops?


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## Pat57

It might be better to just call or visit the guy who's doing the spraying. I certainly wouldn't wait any longer. The next one could wipe out everything?

Pat


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## GreginND

Yes, I just need to find out who it is. It's not so easy. The guys who own the field west of me were out tonight and I talked to them. I don't think it was their fault. They are very careful. They gave me some info on the folks who work the field to the south that I think is the main culprit. These are large farm plots and the folks who work them don't live on their land. There are no houses. So it's not like I can just walk down and talk to the neighbors.


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## BobR

http://nebula.wsimg.com/21fa347c397...406922E8FE3BA6D9C&disposition=0&alloworigin=1


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## GreginND

Well, after becoming quite tired of broken and underpowered equipment to dig my trellis posts I decided to pony up the rental fee for some real help. We brought out a big skid steer with a good auger. At first it was slow going as I was tying to heavy wet clay off the drill after every hole. Then we realized it worked fine to just keep going and tamp the posts in some after drilling the holes. With a little help from friends we got 200 posts planted today. I still have to fill in the holes and tamp em in, but this is the real hard part that I was struggling with. I'm glad it's done.


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## ibglowin

Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do! Looks like the right tool for the job. Glad you got-er-done!


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## grapeman

The mounted augers really do speed things up immensely. Still lots to do so get to it!


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## HillPeople

From the looks of the vines you got them in none too soon! Quite a few hundred feet of that nasty high tensile wire to string now! Glad you got them planted. I think I'd prefer clay over rocks, but I wouldn't know.


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## GreginND

As a way to document my vineyard development, I now present the story of the trellis posts in pictures. I'll update as I add my H-braces and wires later.

It starts with posts. A friend and I were able to source treated posts for a reasonable price and after a number of delays, they finally arrived. I am using 10 foot posts and plan to sink them 4 feet in the ground to make a 6 foot trellis. The end posts are 5", the H-brace support post is 4" and the posts in the middle are 3" treated wood. I am using 8-foot x 3" posts for the horizontal H-brace.













Naively, I thought "Oh, I'll just borrow a 3-pt auger for my old 1952 Ford 8N tractor and dig away". So, I started digging holes:






























Things seemed to be moving along well until . . . disaster! The iron gear box on the auger where the pin holds it to the lift arm shattered. Of course the auger was buried completely in the ground when it happened. I took a bit, but I was able to finally pull it out of the ground.



















Well, that put an end to the hole digging for the day. But I had a few holes dug. So, the next morning I set about trying to plant some posts. Little did I realize that old tractor, without a live PTO, spun the drill as I pulled it out creating pretty wide hole and a lot of the dirt and heavy clay fell back in the hole. No problem, I thought. I'll just use my post hole shovel and pull out the "loose" dirt. After 8 posts I realized there was no way I would finish this year. The clay was wet and stuck to the shovel. Every scoop had to be painstakingly scraped off the shovel before I could dig the next scoop. BUT, 8 posts were in, the holes were backfilled, tamped in by hand, and were tight!



















After giving up on the hand digging idea, we decided bigger and better equipment was needed. So I arranged for a skid steer on another day. In the meantime, that old 8N came in handy to help me distribute all the posts throughout the vineyard ready to be put in.









Last Friday morning, the skid steer (and my good friend to operate it) showed up. It was a pretty nice morning but by the end of the day, the temps were climbing near 90 degrees. I drank about 2 gallons of water and was still dehydrated. We finally got into a groove and found that we could dig the hole, immediately put the post in and tamp it a little bit with the skid steer to set it to the right depth. After a good long day's work with a little help from friends we had 183 posts in the ground ready to backfill.






















































I mentioned that these posts needed to be backfilled and the dirt tamped in. You'd think that would be pretty easy. But, I also mentioned that under the topsoil was a lot of heavy wet clay. You know what happens to heavy wet clay after it bakes in the sun for a while? Yes! Cement. What a job this is. Not only did I need to pound the dirt back into the holes, but I had to pound the clay lumps by hand to break up the "cement" before it could go back into the hole. The lumps I was too tired to pulverize ended up on the top of the pile. Four to five hours a day for four days and I have 143 of the posts backfilled! UGH, what a job. I certainly do not need to use my gym membership this week. My arms and shoulders are going to be HUGE without taking any steroids. But, the east vineyard is done. I just have 40 more posts to do in the smaller south vineyard. It's a good feeling to see the vineyard taking shape. And I keep telling myself that the hard work is good for my soul.


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## ibglowin

All I can say is wow, wow, wow. That is one heck of an undertaking in those types of (soil) conditions. Who knew North Dakota soil was so wet! Well done!

Now about that "little" Mallow problem you have…..


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## Runningwolf

Greg what a great pictorial update. Thanks for sharing.


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## GreginND

ibglowin said:


> All I can say is wow, wow, wow. That is one heck of an undertaking in those types of (soil) conditions. Who knew North Dakota soil was so wet! Well done!
> 
> Now about that "little" Mallow problem you have…..



Yes, I am located in the bottom of ancient Lake Agazssiz. I have almost 3 feet of black lake bottom silt with heavy clay loam underneath. We had a really wet June and some of these holes were still filled with a foot or more of water.

About the mallow - yes. I'm always battling something. If you notice in the last few pictures that mallow is turning yellow. Last weekend I spent one day carefully spraying the weeds by hand. It was tedious and I didn't want to spray herbicides, but I really had no choice. Now that the posts are in I will try to find a disc, break up the soil a bit and get some grass seed planted. I do NOT want to deal with trellises OR mallow ever again.


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## grapeman

Isn't having a vineyard a fun job? I had someone ask me today if I was retired now that I had the vineyard and winery. This was at one of the 7 markets we do a week. Lots of spare time for reading, boating and swimming, golfing and fishing..............................................................


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## Logwerx

Greg, have you considered having someone come in and pound those poles? We pound all our fence posts here in Montana. I am going to use a pounder for my trellis posts.


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## GreginND

I tried to find a pounder but couldn't get one. That would be so much easier. But, don't you need pointed posts for that? I suppose I could always buzz the ends to point them myself.

Rich, the work never ends. But it is satisfying. However, you think you are getting ahead and then you get hit with more. I came out to the vineyard this evening and found 30 mph winds and half my vines laying on the ground. The bamboo poles just snapped right off. Mother Nature is an impatient b***. She couldn't wait for me to finish my trellises before blasting us with more wind. *sigh*


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## grapeman

The winds did the same to me in the new vineyard before I got the wires in- twice. It was so nice to be able to tie the stakes to the wire and not worry about them tipping over and breaking.


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## HillPeople

Nice job Greg! We certainly have the complete opposite soil types. You get clay- I get rocks- Rich has something completely different. It's a lot of hard work no matter what soil you have. But it sure is nice when you can finally tie off those young vines.
Gotta go pick Jap Beetles...


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## mgmarty

Very nice Greg! Great pictures. Yes it never ends, I'm headed out irrigate now! 


Baco Noir and Seyval Blanc in Utah


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## spaniel

If I were 1500 mile closer I'd loan you my 60-yr-old auger....built much heavier and would not break like that.

Problem I have with heavy clay/loam is that it does not want to dig, it just clogs. It only works when the ground is really dry. So I have had to dig all my holes by hand. Fortunately, fewer than you are doing by far.

Can't imagine trying to get vines up without the wire, I use UV-rated conduit zip-tied to the wire for the vines to climb. Cheap and works great, but a no-go without wire. We get high winds here and nothing would work without the wire up.


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## GreginND

Here's a little video of my wine making area. I am just starting to produce and have a lot more equipment to get and setup to do.

http://youtu.be/Z-Nsst45yKU


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## sour_grapes

Very nice, Greg! It cracks me up to see a space with huge sacks of sugar AND a miter saw!


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## HillPeople

Great start Greg! You're going to be having some fun now!


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## fabrictodyefor

nice workroom, I hope to see it live one day. Summer, our motorcycles and a new winery to visit. Can't ask for a better trip!


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## GreginND

When the weather outside reaches -20°F my doubts begin to grow and fester about whether or not the vines will survive. I checked my frontenac vines today and I'm happy to report that they are as healthy and alive as can be. Looking forward to great growth this spring!


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## bhoenisch

Greg. Do you have any trouble ripening the frontenac's at your location. I have a few frontenac gris that will be in their second leaf this season here in north central Montana and am a little concerned that while they are hardy I may not get them to ripen with only around 2000 growing degree days on average. What has been your experience? I'd really like to try frontenac blanc, but am waiting too see how the gris do first.


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## Pat57

Greg, has it been colder than -20F for you? I had -31F here Friday. I have about 16" of snow cover here thankfully, but I bet I'll have some winter kill on exposed vines. I have a few varieties like Landot Noir, Castel and Ives that are "supposed" to be cold hardy to zone 4, but I'm guessing they'll have some injury come spring....if it ever comes !!! 

Pat


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## GreginND

No, it hasn't been much colder than -20 this year and that has been only a few times. Not like last winter with extended periods of below zero highs. Our warm fall and Dec/Jan has been good for the vines.

It can be a problem ripening frontenac up here and the acids are usually high. My frontenac is only one year old so I don't have experience yet. My frontenac blanc will be in its third leaf this year and I'm expecting to get some crop.


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## GreginND

It's been a while since I have updated this thread. And I see most of the photos from Facebook from before have broken links. Sorry. I don't think I can go back and find what every photo was again. Anyone know an easy way to relink broken FB links?

Anyway, My original vineyard is still struggling due to very alkaline soil, ever present spray drift and maybe some residual tordon/picloram. Some of those original vines are doing really well, some are once again growing from the ground after 5 years. I bought myself a good tractor and a tiller so I am now trying to keep the vineyard completely tilled this whole season to beat back the weed pressure. I will establish grass between the rows next year. Although we have had little to no rain in two months, the vines are mostly growing well now. Well, except my petite pearl which is closest to the neighboring farm fields and gets the brunt of the spray drift. 

The Frontenac I put in in 2014 south of our driveway are doing great. Last year was their third leaf and I was anticipating getting a good crop, but that froze in May. This year we're now past any frost danger and the vines are going great. We will have lots of fruit on those Frontenac. I'll post pictures in the next post of these.


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## GreginND

Here are some vineyard vignettes. This is Frontenac.


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## Masbustelo

By keeping the rows fallow you might free up more water for the vines. What is your average rainfall per year? Is it normal to not get rain at this time of the year? How much behind normal are you for the year?


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## mgmarty

Looks amazing. Man you have done a lot of work!


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## dcbrown73

You know. Wine is rather new to me. (almost 2 years in) When I look at the latest pictures, all I see is clear skies. 

That's because I've been an active astronomy since my age was in single digits. That's the Jack Horkheimer in me.


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## GreginND

Our average rainfall for April/May is 5-8 inches. We've had only 0.5 inches. June is usually our wettest month. So far, not a drop. And it will be over 100 degrees on Saturday!


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## Johnd

GreginND said:


> Our average rainfall for April/May is 5-8 inches. We've had only 0.5 inches. June is usually our wettest month. So far, not a drop. And it will be over 100 degrees on Saturday!



Love to trade you Greg, we've had that much rain in the last 3 days......


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## Johny99

Ouch, we've had our wettest spring ever, ~3 inches April, May. I guess it did make it over the Rockies. Hope things get better out your way.


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## grapeman

You can have mine also Greg. Not sure about the amounts, but it is copious. Today is the first sunny day in about 10 days now.


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## fivebk

Looking good Greg!


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## the_rayway

Looks beautiful Greg! I really need to move my butt and take a couple of days to drive down, look at your lovely winery, and taste some of these wines I'm hearing so much about!


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## HillPeople

GreginND said:


> Our average rainfall for April/May is 5-8 inches. We've had only 0.5 inches. June is usually our wettest month. So far, not a drop. And it will be over 100 degrees on Saturday!



From the south slopes of the White Mtns. in NH:
The average high temperature for the past month

was 65.1 degrees and the low 45.5 deg. This is

0.3 degrees above normal. The highest reading

was 95 degrees on the 18th of the month and the

lowest 32 deg. on the 9th.


Total rainfall was 7.93" which is 3.50" above normal.

A trace of sleet was observed on the 8th.


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