# No Fermentation after 48 hours



## arcticsid (Oct 8, 2009)

I realize I may be jumping the gun here but I haven't seen any ferment action after 48 hours. This is what I did. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Current SG is 1.095 @ 75 degrees/F.

Everything was cleaned and sanitized including my hands.

I placed 1 gallon of room temp water in the primary and added 1/4 teaspoon K Meta, 4 tsp Yeast Nutrient, and 1tsp Tannin and stirred well, allowed to sit for an hour or so.

I then added 8 1/2 # of thawed cranberries in a ferment bag. I then boiled 1 gallon of water and dissolved 4#+6 cups sugar in it and added it to the primary and allowed it to "seep" for a half hour or so.

I squeezed the hell out of the ferment bag and topped off the whole thing with 1 gallon of Ocean Spray Cranberry/Pomegranate juice, and 1 gallon of Ocean Spray Cranberry juice. I allowed this to rest for 12 hours or so and added 3 teaspoons of powdered Pectin E and stirred well. This was allowed to rest for another 12 hours or so.

Before pitching the yeast I measured the temp of the must and it was 72/F.

I couldn't get any cotes de blanc, so I used Cuvee. This was rehydrated in warm water(90F) for 15 minutes, it seem to be activated nice, had nice foam on top, etc. I poured this on top of the must without stirring.

Covered with a clean cloth and waited.

Now it is like 48 hours and don't see any action.

I think I did all the right things and realize sometimes yeast will take a bit to take hold. But I am surprised that the cuvee didn't take off yet.

I may be getting impatient but was wondering if I may have did something wrong. Before posting this I gave it a good stir and covered it back up.

Any ideas? I hope I am just being impatient, this is a batch destined to be nice, I would hate to think in my "infinite" knowledge I did something wrong.

Took me a long time just to gather the berries and would sure hate to think it may be for naught.



Thanks 
Troy


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## Racer (Oct 8, 2009)

Just trying to make sure I'm following you articsid. Do you have a 5 gallon batch there?


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## Wade E (Oct 8, 2009)

What is listed as ingredients with those gallons of Ocean Spray? Is there any Benzoate or sorbate?


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## arcticsid (Oct 8, 2009)

4 gallon batch. Wade, I was sure to read all the lables and seen none of those listed. I feel funny asking but I am really at a loss on this one.
Troy


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## cpfan (Oct 8, 2009)

Troy:

"Current SG is 1.095 @ 75 degrees/F."

I don't see a starting sg.

Steve


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## arcticsid (Oct 8, 2009)

Starting Sg was the same but it was more like 70/F. This seems like a question even I should beable to answer, but I cant. This is like my 25th batch of wine so I was sure to do everything "right", at the correct times. I don't really want to try and jump start it at this point. I have seen fermentation start as long as 4 days, but I know enough about Cuvee that I was expecting some kind of action by now.

Thanks for thinking about me Steve.
Troy


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## Sacalait (Oct 8, 2009)

For a 5 gal batch a 1/4tsp of K-meta is required, you only had 4gals. Pour from one bucket to another several times to airate and dissipate the K-meta. Make a yeast starter and you know the rest of the story.


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## Racer (Oct 8, 2009)

Sacalait said:


> For a 5 gal batch a 1/4tsp of K-meta is required, you only had 4gals. Pour from one bucket to another several times to airate and dissipate the K-meta. Make a yeast starter and you know the rest of the story.



Thanks for confirming the math Sacalait. I thought it sounded like a little too much k-meta for the batch size.


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## Wade E (Oct 8, 2009)

I wasnt sure about the size either cause he mentioned 4 galons pf liquid with added berries and also sugar which displaces quite a bit also. You are a littl high like said above with meta so splash rack as said and stir it up really good again and introduce a new yeast.


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah I added 4 gallons of liquid, and the juice from the berries and the sugar. So the fermenter is probably holding 4 1/2 gallons and all I added was 1/4 tsp of kmeta, shouldnt be that nuch off.

I dont have another vessel to splash it, could I just stir the heck out of it and then add the yeast? All I have on hand for yeast is another sachet of Cuvee. I was at the brew shop today and no more cotes de blanc till Monday.

So if the Kmeta ISN"T all that high I cant figure else what else I could have gone wrong.

I.m not gonna make it back to the store for OJ for a starter. On hand I have sugar, corn syrup, raisins, apple juice and a few cans of canned fruit. What can I use to make a starter with? I have never had to make one before, what little I know about starters I heard from you all.
Troy


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## Luc (Oct 9, 2009)

Wade E said:


> What is listed as ingredients with those gallons of Ocean Spray? Is there any Benzoate or sorbate?



Do a search for Cranberries and benzoate with Google.

Indeed ocean spray does not add any benzoate, they do not need to
as cranberries are full of them.....
It is a natural ingredient in cranberries.

So make a really large yeast starter. Maybe that helps.

There is a trick in which first bakers yeast is added, and next when these die off wine yeast is added.
That way the benzoate is consumed by the bakers yeast and the wine yeast gets a chance.

Do not have the details at hand. It was at Jack Kellers weblog in 2007.

Luc


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

I do have some bakers yeast on hand! So are you suggest making a starter with it and let it ferment out, than make another starter with wine yeast and let it do it's thing?

Sounds pretty redundant.

I will see if I can find the log you mentioned on cranberries.

I hope I dont regret not making a liqueur out of these

This must has a nice flavor and I can imagine a nice finished product, really would hate to lose it.

So in the morning I will improvise a "whip" from a plastic coat hanger and stir it up a bunch and prepare a starter.

Sure hope it works.

Keepin the Faith,

Troy


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## Tom (Oct 9, 2009)

A few years ago I made Cranberry wine from fresh cranberries. I do remember having a devil of a time for it to start. I'm not sure bakers yeast will help thou. I would get something like Lalvin 1118 and make a big starter.


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## Luc (Oct 9, 2009)

arcticsid said:


> I will see if I can find the log you mentioned on cranberries.



Look for benzoate.
Open the log and do a search with your browsers search function on that file.

Luc


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

I normally rehydrate my yeast in 100?f water, about 1/4 cup. Could I make a starter with warm apple juice say 1 cup or so? And just leave it in a warm place for a bit. Tried search for yeast starter and came up missing. To make a starter I have apple juice, sugar, brown sugar, a few fresh oranges, light corn syrup, and a few cans of fruit cocktail. Please advise on what I can use to make a starter. I've never made one so didn't pay much attention when starters were discussed in here.

The only yeast I have on hand id Cuvee.

Thanks
Troy.

I do plan to aerate it good before adding the activated starter.


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## Tom (Oct 9, 2009)

Apple juice will work, so will just sugar. The idea is to have the yeasties multiply many times before adding.


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

Thanks Tom will give the apple juice a shot and report back. How long to letthe yeasy grow in the juice before adding to the must? Should it be stirred in or just poured on top? Sure appreciate your help on this.
Troy


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## Tom (Oct 9, 2009)

Most of the time the yeast drops in solution. If it just stays on top after 20 min give it a stir w/ sanitized spoon.
30 min is avg for me to wait. (don't watch the clock it Will take forever that way)


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

Got ya, but I was wondering about adding the starter to the must, usually i just pour the activated yeast on top without stirring, should I treat the starter the same way? How long should I let the starter go after pitching the yeast into it. I feel odd asking this many questions, but so far have had good luck as an amateur wine maker, and am really worried about this batch.

Benn sitting there for like 3 days after I pitched the initial yeast. Is there going to be any problem because it has not begun a fermentation at this point?
Troy


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## Tom (Oct 9, 2009)

Tom said:


> Most of the time the yeast drops in solution. If it just stays on top after 20 min give it a stir w/ sanitized spoon.
> 30 min is avg for me to wait. (don't watch the clock it Will take forever that way)


This for a starter. I start it in a tall glass. I pitch it in 30 min or so.


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## Wade E (Oct 9, 2009)

You shold be ok for another couple of days on the must and dint even think about the natural benzoate with cranberries, I always seem to forget allabout that.


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

Well as we speak, I have about 12 oz. of apple juice cooling down in a sterilized glass waiting for it to come down too100F, also have a makeshift stireer from a plastic coat hanger sitting in a k meta solution. The drill will be here in a few minutes and I am going to aerate it good and add the starter after it has time to grow.

Thanks again for all your help. Don't like cranberry wine enough to go through this again, next tiime I will just make liqueur with them.

It does however have a nice flavor and color with the addition of the Pomegranate juice. I think after it ferments out dry it actually may be quite swell. I hope I can get it that far.
Troy


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

That is some amazing S$$$! I pitched 1 sachet of Cuvee in about 12 ounces of 100/F apple juice. The yeast almost immediately settled to the bottom. Within a few seconds it started to roll and grow right before my eyes. It has been 30 mins but I am going to give it another 15 just because I can. I may be sold on starters from this point forward.!

During this time I took the stirrer to the must and aerate it pretty good.

I am still maintaining 1.095 a 74/F.

Will pitch the starter and report back later on this evening.

Did a little research on benzoate, sounds like that stuff will stop or prevent a fermentation just as easily as too much sulfites or sorbates.

Talk to yall later
Troy


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## Racer (Oct 9, 2009)

If you haven't pitched the yeast yet try adding some of the must to the starter first like 1/4 cup and let it go for an hour so the yeast might get better acclimated to the harsher conditons first.


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

I was just going to add it to the must before I checked back in, I think I may do that, but hell racer, the starter is going pretty darn good, would hate to change something that seems to be going pretty well


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## Tom (Oct 9, 2009)

Wouldn'y hurt to do what racer said.. 

U still gonna get surgery


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## Racer (Oct 9, 2009)

arcticsid said:


> I was just going to add it to the must before I checked back in, I think I may do that, but hell racer, the starter is going pretty darn good, would hate to change something that seems to be going pretty well



Besides what I said before another reason would be that the yeastie boys also have more of a chance to multiply out somemore before jumpimg into the big pool.That could give them a better chance at taking hold and getting the fermentation going for you.


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## arcticsid (Oct 9, 2009)

Its already swimming I added the apple juice starter withou the addition of the actauall must. Will have a report in the next couple hours.
Thanks Gang

Troy


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## Racer (Oct 9, 2009)

Well I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and your wine to be.Do keep us informed on your progress.


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## arcticsid (Oct 10, 2009)

Well been almost 24 hrs since I pitched the starter and nothings going on. To say I am bumming would be an understatement. I am at a total loss on this. Would consider any other suggestions but don't know how long I am willing to watch a dead bucket of juice.

I am sold on this starter idea though it really had some good action working when it hit the must, obviously didn't do a damn thing but am convinced a sstarter is the way to go.

I still have Toms Hard Cider on deck, but don't want to give up and go on, at least not yet.

Sulking in my Sadness,

Troy


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## Wade E (Oct 10, 2009)

How much must did you add slowly to the starter before adding it to the batch. Make a starter and at least triple the size of the starter by adding small amounts of the must to it a little at a time.


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## arcticsid (Oct 10, 2009)

I used about 12 oz of aple juice for the starter and let it grow for an hour or so. I will try one more time with a strter made from the must as you have suggested.

So I will end up with three full packs of yeast in this wine! What are the implications of that?

Thanks for your support and patience.

Troy


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## Racer (Oct 10, 2009)

arcticsid said:


> I used about 12 oz of aple juice for the starter and let it grow for an hour or so. I will try one more time with a strter made from the must as you have suggested.
> 
> So I will end up with three full packs of yeast in this wine! What are the implications of that?
> 
> ...



The first 2 packs of yeast are dead now (at least it sounds that way) so no harm should come from that.
Do your yeast starter like you did before. Then after at least 1 hour add 1/2 a cup of must to it. Wait at least another hour and add 1 cup of must to the starter.Keep going like that until you have a starter thats about triple in size to the original amount started. It would be even better to wait 2 hours in between additions if you have the time and patience.


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## arcticsid (Oct 10, 2009)

I'll do just that racer. Can't get anymore yeast till tommorrow but I got this far.

I am almost scared to start this Tree Top Hard Cider if and when this cranberry comes off. The ingredients say only apple juice from concentrate and water. No Vitamin C or anything else. It says it is pasturized. Would hate to go through this frustration again, I have to much fun making my own to run into problems like this.

Thanks Again and Still,

Troy


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## Racer (Oct 10, 2009)

Keep hanging in there and I'm still hoping you can get this one to start for you.


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## arcticsid (Oct 13, 2009)

Okay. Did exactly as Racer suggested and even waited an hour between feedings. Started at 8 pm, at 230 am I pitched the starter.

Must was still at [email protected]

The starter had a nice thick fizz but not alot of foam.

It is now 8 hrs later and it looks like it may be a go. The must has a "fizz", nothing agressive, but looks like this may go. I will give it the rest of the day before I start counting chickens but I am maintaining the confidance this batch will resurrect.

I was sure getting worry and still am somewhat.

Preciate evryones help and support.

I was worried the must had been sitting too long but tasted it before adding the starter and it tasted like it did the day it was "born". I was afraid it may have started getting sour. But it was fine. The wine Gods were on my side.

I am still hopping on crutches so I asked the neighbor to pick me up some yeast. I told him RS Premiere Cuvee, in the blue pack, he brought back RS Pasteur Champagne in a YELLOW pack, thats what I used for the starter. Seems to work pretty darn good. Just wondering who the wino is, yellow and blue don't even look the same!HeHe, glad he got the wrong one, seems to be working quite well.


Will report back later.

Thanks Again Gang,

Troy


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## Racer (Oct 13, 2009)

I hope it keeps going strong and makes a good wine for you too.


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## St Allie (Oct 14, 2009)

Is it still going strong Troy?

meant to ask if you had saved some cranberries for the spiced liqueur?

Allie


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## arcticsid (Oct 14, 2009)

36 hours after adding the starter it is screaming right along. A big sigh of relief! No I used them all for the wine. Still have plenty of raspberries. I can get plenty of crans if I need them. Don't think I'lll be making wine with them again though, that was a close call. Plenty of other things to make wine with.

Thanks for thinking of me.
Troy


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## Wade E (Oct 14, 2009)

Great, it was a good learning experince for you and you should never have to ask that again!


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## arcticsid (Oct 15, 2009)

I wont Buddy. I hope I can help someone else. I have made anew thread to continue my thoughts.

Troy


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## Midwest Vintner (Oct 15, 2009)

cranberry makes a good wine though

you might change your mind later


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## Wade E (Oct 15, 2009)

Yep, m ine is awesome!


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## Tom (Oct 15, 2009)

Yesterday I opened a Cranberry I bottled in '06. Hmm even better.


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## Mud (Feb 20, 2010)

Luc said:


> Do a search for Cranberries and benzoate with Google.
> 
> Indeed ocean spray does not add any benzoate, they do not need to
> as cranberries are full of them.....
> ...



Luc, are you referring to the April 24th, 2007 entry?


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## Luc (Feb 21, 2010)

I do not have it at hand, but do a search on his log. Or read his log it is fun anyway !!!

I believe, if you read this thread carefully, Troy just did wahat Jack also did. Only Troy did not add bakers yeast which consumed the benzoate and died so the next batch could get going, tro did it with two yeast starters. But basically the same.

Luc


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## Mud (Feb 21, 2010)

I think that was it. I'm having some trouble getting a cranberry melomel to start and was scouring the forum for info. I'm into starter 3 now, so maybe it'll take off. Thanks for the help.


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## Jersey.Vintner (Feb 26, 2010)

Some commercial juices claim to be "100% Juice" however other ingredients are often added. If "other ingredients" are added, it can't possibly be 100%. Most juices like Ocean Spray, Northland, etc have Potassium Sorbate and often Potassium Metabisulphite. If preservatives are not used, shelf life would be extremely short.

Sulphites and sorbates will both hinder fermentation. I would recommend dumping the batch and start over with preservative free juice. 

Several years back, I tried to make apple cider and it did not ferment even after I dumped 2 quarts of active slurry. The "100% apple cider", obtained from a local farmers market, contained potassium sorbate.


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## Tom (Feb 26, 2010)

Jersey,
Welcome..
Where about in Jersey are you? Tell us about your winemaking...


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## Jersey.Vintner (Feb 26, 2010)

Thanks Tom. I'm in central NJ (South Brunswick) and have been making wine from grapes (and beer) for the past 13 years. It's a very cool hobby.


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## Tom (Feb 26, 2010)

Have you made any Chilean wines? They are comming in around April/May in S. Jersey


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## Jersey.Vintner (Feb 26, 2010)

Yes, I like South American wines. In fact, I'm bottling a Chilean Carménère and Malbec tomorrow. I have to make room for the upcoming spring season.


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