# Siphoning Question



## kyleb (Dec 1, 2009)

Do most of you just start the siphon with your mouth? It seems like it would ruin all the work I put in to sterilizing the equipment...


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## rawlus (Dec 1, 2009)

many use an Auto-siphon from Fermtech available just about anywhere.


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## 1st Timer (Dec 1, 2009)

Auto Siphon is definately the way to go, well worth the $15.00! You can get them at most Brewmaster Shops as well as online.


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## gonzo46307 (Dec 1, 2009)

Another + for the auto-siphon.

Peace,
Bob


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## upper (Dec 1, 2009)

I never start a siphon before noon Upper


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## Malkore (Dec 1, 2009)

barring using an auto-siphon (I own two!), just fill your racking hose with sanitizer (like Star-san), put one end in the wine bucket, then let the other end flow into a small jar until the sanitizer's gone and the tube is full of wine, then move the tube to your second vessel and let it flow.

auto-siphon is a whole lot easier.


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## smurfe (Dec 1, 2009)

Auto siphon here as well. I have each size they make. If you have to siphon with the mouth though, don't freak out about it. Many do it. You could always gargle with Listerine first for at least 30 seconds and preferably a minute to kill as many germs as possible. That's what the piercing studios do when they pierce your tongue.


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## Wade E (Dec 1, 2009)

Auto siphon is very nice but the electric vacuum pump is even better!


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## xanxer82 (Dec 1, 2009)

I don't have glass carboys yet. All of mine are better bottles so a pump wont work without collapsing the BBs. I had to start by mouth the first couple times I racked but then I got an Auto Siphon. Best investment ever.


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## Green Mountains (Dec 1, 2009)

Wade E said:


> Auto siphon is very nice but the electric vacuum pump is even better!




OK.....officially jealous of Wade's setup.


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## Wade E (Dec 1, 2009)

Its an aspirator pump that you can buy on Ebay for usually round $100 shipped. ValleyVintner now sells these also which are nore expensive but brand new. I can degas, rack up hill(from the floor to the counter), filter, and also bottle with this. I have a bad back and picking up or dropping down a full 6 gallon carboy is not good for me!!!!!!!


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## NSwiner (Dec 1, 2009)

The lady at our store told me The Buon Vino MiniJet can have a piece of hose added to it to do the siphoning so thats another reason I want to get one . I start my siphon now by running water into it then clamping off until i put it the wine then run into a container until the wine comes through then stop and putin clean carboy . i don't like the idea of starting it by mouth either because of the germ thing .


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## Wade E (Dec 1, 2009)

Ive heard those get pretty hot and ill ned a coold down period, just what Ive heard.


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## Hillbilly Bill (Dec 1, 2009)

Folks have been siphoning using their mouth for many, many years... but the human mouth is a nasty thing. When I was a young working in the Emergency Room at South Georgia Medical Center, we would get people who had been bitten by a dog. The Good Doctor would usually sanitize it, stich it if necessary, and bandage it. If it was a human bite, yes we got plenty of those, the Good Doctor would sanitize the wound as best he could, but he would not stitch it up until he was sure that there was no staphylococcus infection. Once again, the human mouth is a nasty thing... especially ArcticSid's.


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## arcticsid (Dec 1, 2009)

Thats fine and dandy for you that have these fancy pumps! But, I, like kyle have to wonder if siphoning the old fashioned way by using a tube and your mouth is really that critical of a concern. At what point do we get "over concerned" about the whole sterilization and sanitizing aspect of brewing our own?

PleaseAdvise

Troy


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## NSwiner (Dec 1, 2009)

Yes Wade i read that somewhere also but only if you do more then one batch at a time I think what they said .


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## arcticsid (Dec 1, 2009)

Say Bro', my bark is worse than my bite. But then again, it has been a while since I bit myself, so I can't be sure!! LOL


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## Hillbilly Bill (Dec 1, 2009)

arcticsid said:


> Say Bro', my bark is worse than my bite. But then again, it has been a while since I bit myself, so I can't be sure!! LOL



Ha-Ha!... Gotcha.


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## rawlus (Dec 1, 2009)

i have to go with wade here. i think the minijet is overpriced for what it is.
an oilless continuous duty vacuum pump off ebay is going to be way more versatile for 1/2-1/4 the cost.
you can rack with it with minimal O2 exposure.
you can vacuum bottle with it
you can filter with it.
you can degas with it.

mine was $50 + shipping on ebay. gomco model 3001. quiet, compact, portable, with vacuum gauge, regulator, overflow canister with tubing, filter and auto-shutoff overflow valve.


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## Wade E (Dec 1, 2009)

Ive done the mouth thing before and must say I worried but never had a problem. If I were you Id use some sulfite solution or even distilled water and let that start the vacuum though cause its just a matter of time before it does create problem IMO, I would never do it again thinking n how I can screw up a precious batch of my wine.


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## NSwiner (Dec 1, 2009)

rawlus said:


> i have to go with wade here. i think the minijet is overpriced for what it is.
> an oilless continuous duty vacuum pump off ebay is going to be way more versatile for 1/2-1/4 the cost.
> you can rack with it with minimal O2 exposure.
> you can vacuum bottle with it
> ...



What kind of filters do you use in these ? Are they easy to get .


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## NSwiner (Dec 1, 2009)

Wade E said:


> Auto siphon is very nice but the electric vacuum pump is even better!



Im curious what you have written on the tags hanging off your carboys ?


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## Wade E (Dec 1, 2009)

You can get the filter setup at any home improvement store like home depot and use any filter except a carbon filter as that will strip all flavor from your wine or almost all. Its a whole house filter. you can even get them at Walmart. To bottle you just need the Boun Vino auto filler which is $32.


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## Wade E (Dec 1, 2009)

Those tags are everything except the recipe as thats in my computer and on a backup disc. Those tags state my starting sg, what type it is, date racked, and everything that has been added to it.


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## NSwiner (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks the tags looked like something I might want to use if i get all my carboys going .Sorry another question ,do you write it down in a book also ?


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## Wade E (Dec 1, 2009)

Staples has them and they are cheap with strings on them and fit a carboy neck nice.


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## rocket man (Dec 2, 2009)

Wade E said:


> Auto siphon is very nice but the electric vacuum pump is even better!



I see you have a brew belt around one of your carboys. I was thinking of doing that but I read that you weren't supposed to. I think because there was a chance that the glass could break. How long have you been doing it?


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## Green Mountains (Dec 2, 2009)

rocket man; I see you have a brew belt around one of your carboys. I was thinking of doing that but I read that you weren't supposed to. I think because there was a chance that the glass could break. How long have you been doing it?[/QUOTE said:


> I'd been using them on my carboys until just recently when I read the same thing. OK, I still used it but set the carboy in side a primary bucket in case it popped.
> 
> Is this carboy/heat belt thing a myth or true concern? Doesn't seem the heat belt gets THAT hot.


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## Hillbilly Bill (Dec 2, 2009)

rawlus said:


> an oilless continuous duty vacuum pump off ebay is going to be way more versatile for 1/2-1/4 the cost.
> you can degas with it.



Rawlus... when you degas using the vacuum pump, do you need to shake the carboy?


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## rawlus (Dec 2, 2009)

physical manipulation of the carboy is not necessary when vacuum degasing. stirring is not required either. the vacuum basically sucks the CO2 out of the wine before your eyes. there are some startling videos of this in action on youtube if you do a search on "vacuum degassing"
here's one
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyF7febQiGk"]here's another[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEVsZmRh4os"]and another[/ame]

the video quality on [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZhnlEwREg"]this one[/ame] is very good, you can clearly see the CO2 coming out of suspension as a result of the vacuum.


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## BobF (Dec 2, 2009)

kyleb said:


> Do most of you just start the siphon with your mouth? It seems like it would ruin all the work I put in to sterilizing the equipment...


 
I use the mini autosyphon ...

CJJ Berry says using anything other than your mouth causes you to miss out on a tasting you wouldn't otherwise get


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## Hillbilly Bill (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks Rawlus... I've got to get me a vacuum pump.
HB


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## Winot (Dec 3, 2009)

Wade,

What are those orange caps that you use to seal the receiving container in order to establish a good vacuum ? Also what is the model of the vac-pump and how is it rated in terms of vacuum strength ? Thanks


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## rawlus (Dec 3, 2009)

the orange caps are carboy caps, available just about any winemaking/brewing retail source.
the vacuum pumps vary depending on model and type. some are oilless, some require oil. some are limited duty (can only be run for short lengths of time between cooling off periods) and some are continuous duty. 
generally speaking, any pumps that will reliably pull 20in/Hg should be suitable for multiple winemaking tasks.
it is nice to have a regulator and gauge, either as part of the pump or bought separately.
places like northern tool and valley vintner sell several models of vacuum pump.
the route i took was to look for a commercial quality medical/dental aspirator on ebay as used medical equipment - these pumps are built for heavy use, quality constructed, most are oilless and they often come as a complete portable setup with a base that also holds the overflow/collection container (which you will need to makein some way if you get a pump without - this is precautionary as you will quickly destroy the pump if you accidentally suck water into the pump) - i also went the medical equipment route because of parts availability - virtually every part is available in the event of repair or general maintenance.
the medical aspirators are extremely costly brand new - $800+, but on the used market you can usually luck out and get one for under $100. i paid $50 for mine.

on ebay, good medical pumps to look for are from Gomco and Schuco. Look for oilless and portable as keywords. look for pumps that either come with the glass collection container or you can get a plastic one from an online source for short money.

the model i have is the Gomco 3001


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## NSwiner (Dec 3, 2009)

rawlus said:


> physical manipulation of the carboy is not necessary when vacuum degasing. stirring is not required either. the vacuum basically sucks the CO2 out of the wine before your eyes. there are some startling videos of this in action on youtube if you do a search on "vacuum degassing"
> here's one
> here's another
> and another
> ...



Here's another that is really good for us beginners to watch [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z1FMHrX0Bo[/ame] .He has a whole series but I didn't watch them all but maybe later . he explains why not to use a too powerful pump.


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## Green Mountains (Dec 3, 2009)

rawlus,

Thanks for your post. I'd been researching Gomco and Shuco for the past couple of weeks. I ended up going with a MityVac last earlier this week but not sure it's as easy easy as I thought it'd be.

SOOOOO.....I just snagged this off of EBAY for $50. Only bidder, the seller appears reputable....let's hope.


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## Mike (Dec 3, 2009)

I just stumbled upon this thread and I didn't anything written about aother siphoning option. I use an auto-siphon exclusively now, but previously I used a racking cane with a carboy hood and sanitary filter.


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## rawlus (Dec 3, 2009)

Green Mountains said:


> rawlus,
> 
> Thanks for your post. I'd been researching Gomco and Shuco for the past couple of weeks. I ended up going with a MityVac last earlier this week but not sure it's as easy easy as I thought it'd be.
> 
> SOOOOO.....I just snagged this off of EBAY for $50. Only bidder, the seller appears reputable....let's hope.



GM - that's a great deal, with the glass collection bottle too!
when you get it, i would suggest taking the top plate off and inspecting the insides with attention to the two valves (intake and outflow) - they are little spring valves, one will be visible on top underneath the top plate, the other will be on the underside, you will have to life the body to see. if they are corroded or worn they may need replacement - in regular hospital use these valves are replaced annually long with the foam filters and the head gasket.

here is one site that sells almost all the possible repair parts for gomco pumps, the diaphragm parts kit for the model 300/3001 is GO-01-90-2295
the diaphragm itself, if torn or worn, is GO-01-90-2525.

the valves on mine are a bit worn and so it's only pulling about 16in/Hg instead of the regular 22in/Hg so i plan to replace the valves and gasket with the 2295 kit.

as i posted earlier in the thread, the user manual/repair manual/parts list/troubleshooting manual for the 300/3001 is here


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## Korzy (Dec 3, 2009)

I use a reverse setup that Wade uses. Instead of the vacuum pump, I use a pump used to air orate fish tanks. Costs about $15 at wal-mart and it'll push the wine from one carboy to another with no trouble. Won't help a bit for degassing but it’s a cheap and efficient way to siphon.


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## Green Mountains (Dec 3, 2009)

Rawlus,

Thank you for the tip. I'm not the most mechanical.....you might be hearing from me after the UPS guy shows up in the next week or two.


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## Wade E (Dec 3, 2009)

Korzy, Im not liking that idea as you are forcing 02 into your wine to do so, right? My model is the CGI but Invacare is another good brand. Dont buy an oiled unit as they are nasty and blow oil and smoke into the room and require lots of maintenance. Dont go above 22" when degassing as any more then that and you might have a possible implosion of carboy. I dont use more then 10" when racking especially when starting off cause that would be an empty carboy which would be more susceptible.


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## Horkalugi (Dec 4, 2009)

Good gizmo Wade.


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## Runningwolf (Dec 4, 2009)

Rawlus, please tell me if I am wrong. I watched both of those video's which are very good if you never used a vacuum to degas before. But it looked like his wine was already degassed and he was jut sucking air bubbles. If there was gas present the bubble's would have been much smaller. Also at the rate of speed they were coming up he would of overflowed over if he had gas.


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## Korzy (Dec 4, 2009)

Wade E said:


> Korzy, Im not liking that idea as you are forcing 02 into your wine to do so, right? My model is the CGI but Invacare is another good brand. Dont buy an oiled unit as they are nasty and blow oil and smoke into the room and require lots of maintenance. Dont go above 22" when degassing as any more then that and you might have a possible implosion of carboy. I dont use more then 10" when racking especially when starting off cause that would be an empty carboy which would be more susceptible.



I'm forcing O2 into the carboy, which displaces the wine into the other carboy and wouldn't force O2 into the wine. I started with this system before I knew of the vacuum option. It's cheap and it works. I do like your system though


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## Woodbee (Dec 4, 2009)

I've been doing this for a while and have never had anything like the gas in the 2nd vid. Made me need a Mylanta. Opps Excuse me.


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## rawlus (Dec 4, 2009)

Runningwolf said:


> Rawlus, please tell me if I am wrong. I watched both of those video's which are very good if you never used a vacuum to degas before. But it looked like his wine was already degassed and he was jut sucking air bubbles. If there was gas present the bubble's would have been much smaller. Also at the rate of speed they were coming up he would of overflowed over if he had gas.



runningwolf.. well, it sort of depends on the type of wine and how much co2 is dissolved in it. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZhnlEwREg"]this vid[/ame] i posted earlier i believe is typical of vacuum degassing and i am not of the opinion that these are air bubbles...i usually bulk age after secondary and degas prior to bottling so i can't say i see too much foaming and activity when i degas as i expect the wine is pretty well degassed by then.. for me, it's a precautionary measure and since i have the vaccum out for racking and at time bottling it makes sense to run a quick vacuum on the carboy too just to be sure.

as to foaming, because my pump has both a gauge and regulator, i can pretty easily control the inches of vacuum so as not to overflow if need be.


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## Wade E (Dec 4, 2009)

I agree with rawlus on this but also agree with Runningwolf. This is why i bring the vacuum up to around 18" and then shut it off and crank the knob all the way down which on mine prevents any vacuum from leaking, I do this a few times after running the pump a little and keepm doing this until my wine can hold a vacuum of 16" for around 1/2 an hour. I learned this method 1st with my mityvac when I used to use that and that vacuum always gives me a non gassy wine. 

Korzy, you may not be pushing 02 through your wine but beware as that is introducing a lot of 02 onto your wine so make sure your wine is well sulfited as a white wine or light fruit wine is very vulnerable to browning due to this method.


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## Korzy (Dec 5, 2009)

Wade, you're right. You are exposing the wine to slightly less O2 by creating the vacuum in the destination carboy but you're also drawing O2 into the source carboy. The slight vacuum still has O2 so in my opinion, not a big difference in exposure. But yes the wine should be sulfited properly either way.


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## rawlus (Dec 5, 2009)

i think one of the advantages of vacuum racking is that splash racking into a vacuum carboy will generally be less O2 exposure than splash racking with either gravity or pressure racking... O2 exposure is about the same for all three on the source carboy.

i tend to sulfite the destination carboy with my planned sulfite addition for that racking prior to drawing a vacuum so that what oxygen may still be in the destination carboy has a good opportunity to bind with the sulfite and its gasses as the wine is being introduced... though not scientific, i like to think this too is a good precautionary step in minimizing O2 exposure.


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## Horkalugi (Dec 5, 2009)

If the compressor used to "push" the wine during racking has tanks on it, check the schmeg that comes out when you drain them. Thats reason enough not to use that system unless the air is dried and filtered.


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## upper (Dec 5, 2009)

Hey Hork,is Schmeg worse tham Schmigma?.Or which comes first? Bury-it......Upper


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