# And Just Like That...



## Boatboy24 (Oct 1, 2021)

...it was over. Crush happened today, a day ahead of schedule. Huge thank you to @mainshipfred who volunteered to help unload the truck from CA and was kind enough to get my grapes and bring them by on his way back. Had a few raisined clusters in the Pinot Noir, along with a slight touch of mold in a few spots, so I hit that with 50ppm. The Grenache and Pinot Noir looked pretty good. After the sulfite addition was done and I cleaned everything up, I ran my son off to baseball practice, then came back and added the Lallzyme. I'll measure (and adjust if necessary) ph and Brix in the morning. Then off to coach a game, after which I'll addd my Opti-Red or Noblesse and pitch the yeast. We are off and running!

First lug of Grenache in the C/D:




Everything cleaned and in the lab to add some sulfite. A little refreshment was needed after all that heavy lifting.


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## Bossbaby (Oct 1, 2021)

sounds like a good day!!


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## CDrew (Oct 1, 2021)

I'll be interested to hear your brix. But nice to be off and running.


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## Cynewulf (Oct 1, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> ...it was over. Crush happened today, a day ahead of schedule. Huge thank you to @mainshipfred who volunteered to help unload the truck from CA and was kind enough to get my grapes and bring them by on his way back. Had a few raisined clusters in the Pinot Noir, along with a slight touch of mold in a few spots, so I hit that with 50ppm. The Grenache and Pinot Noir looked pretty good. After the sulfite addition was done and I cleaned everything up, I ran my son off to baseball practice, then came back and added the Lallzyme. I'll measure (and adjust if necessary) ph and Brix in the morning. Then off to coach a game, after which I'll addd my Opti-Red or Noblesse and pitch the yeast. We are off and running!
> 
> First lug of Grenache in the C/D:
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good day, Jim! I’ll be interested in how the Grenache turns out. Yours looks a bit like mine from WW last year which I suspected was Grenache Gris rather than Noir as the grapes seemed awfully pink. I did a field blend with Syrah and Carignan so it was hard for me to say from the final product.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 1, 2021)

CDrew said:


> I'll be interested to hear your brix. But nice to be off and running.



Me too - been hearing about crazy high brix and am anxious to see what my readings are. FWIW (and for what my limited palette can taste), the grapes were very sweet, but didn't seem to have much acidity. I'm just hoping I have enough tartaric acid on hand.

These are Lodi grapes, BTW.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 1, 2021)

Cynewulf said:


> Sounds like a good day, Jim! I’ll be interested in how the Grenache turns out. Yours looks a bit like mine from WW last year which I suspected was Grenache Gris rather than Noir as the grapes seemed awfully pink. I did a field blend with Syrah and Carignan so it was hard for me to say from the final product.



Yep, they seemed very light - the Pinot Noir next to it looked pretty inky in comparison.


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## NorCal (Oct 2, 2021)

Love it, yea in Nor Cal it was a year of early sugar accumulation and by the time the grapes were ripe, sugars were very high almost across all varieties.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 2, 2021)

Cynewulf said:


> Sounds like a good day, Jim! I’ll be interested in how the Grenache turns out. Yours looks a bit like mine from WW last year which I suspected was Grenache Gris rather than Noir as the grapes seemed awfully pink. I did a field blend with Syrah and Carignan so it was hard for me to say from the final product.



I'm thinking more about this and wondering if I should say 'screw it', go for a Rose, and press today. If it is Gris (and I think you're right that it is), I'm not sure I'll get a drinkable red wine out of it.


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## berrycrush (Oct 2, 2021)

It does look pink. Curious to see how the color turns out in the end


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## mainshipfred (Oct 2, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Me too - been hearing about crazy high brix and am anxious to see what my readings are. FWIW (and for what my limited palette can taste), the grapes were very sweet, but didn't seem to have much acidity. I'm just hoping I have enough tartaric acid on hand.
> 
> These are Lodi grapes, BTW.



I have plenty of tartaric if you need some. How did you like the Malbec, the taste and smell was very nice and the grapes looked great. My son checked one Malbec berry and the brix was 23+. I'll take a reading on everything tomorrow.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 2, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I have plenty of tartaric if you need some. How did you like the Malbec, the taste and smell was very nice and the grapes looked great. My son checked one Malbec berry and the brix was 23+. I'll take a reading on everything tomorrow.



Malbec looked pretty nice. Back from baseball and headed to the lab now. 

Anyone have thoughts on what I should do w/ the Grenache? Let it ride? Make Rose?


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## mainshipfred (Oct 2, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Malbec looked pretty nice. Back from baseball and headed to the lab now.
> 
> Anyone have thoughts on what I should do w/ the Grenache? Let it ride? Make Rose?



Last year I made a rose out of the Grenache. Can't remember how long I left it on the skins but it was closer to a white than a Rose. Here's a pic of the one left on the skins. I pulled a little from a 3 gallon carboy I still have.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 2, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I have plenty of tartaric if you need some. How did you like the Malbec, the taste and smell was very nice and the grapes looked great. My son checked one Malbec berry and the brix was 23+. I'll take a reading on everything tomorrow.



I split my Malbec into two batches - both are measuring just over 23 brix.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 2, 2021)

OK, so after initial measurements and adjustments, here's where we stand (all were dosed with Lallzyme EX yesterday):

Pinot Noir: Brix 23 - left it alone. pH was at 4.00 - adjusted down to 3.61 (I'm tempted to go a little lower, but don't want to overdo it). Added OptiRed. Yeast: RP15.

Grenache (Gris?): Brix 25.6 - watered back to 23. pH 3.67. I decided I'm going to press tomorrow morning and pitch, making a Rose. Lowered pH to 3.35. I plan on adding Lysozyme to prevent MLF. Yeast: GRE.

Malbec I'm doing a 'double' (6 lugs) batch and am splitting until barreling. I'm keeping everything the same except using OptiRed in one and Noblesse in the other. I've always used OptiRed, but am interested to see if there's a discernible difference between the two. Anyway, Brix just over 23 (I'll call it 23.2) - left it alone. pH was 3.76, adjusted down to 3.59. Yeast: D254. Brix was a little disappointing on this one, but I'm not going to mess with it.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 3, 2021)

OK, the Grenache has been pressed and the skins discarded.  No turning back now. I was surprised by how much color extraction I got in about 40 hours. Anxious to see what the color is like after everything settles. I had some FT Blanc Soft and decided to add that - a day and a half of soaking with no added sulfites, so I figured a little oxidation insurance wouldn't hurt even though it's typically a white wine additive. The Pinot Noir and Malbec are fizzing away and I expect I'll have caps forming by tonight.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 6, 2021)

Holy fast ferment, Batman! The Rose is at 1.000 tonight. Looks like I may have to rack tomorrow.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 9, 2021)

Pinot Noir was at 0.996 and both Malbecs were at 0.994 so I pressed this morning. Things are looking good. 

For those keeping track, I did 6 lugs of Malbec split into two batches. Everything was identical except in one I used OptiRed and used Noblesse in the other. There is currently no discernible difference in color, nose or taste. Interestingly, both yielded 7.5 gallons, in total. However, I got about a quarter gallon more free run out of the Noblesse batch, but more press run from the OptiRed batch. In the end, probably not a material difference, as it could've just been a difference in the positioning of the GHT and racking cane. For now, I'm going to call the results identical. I'll keep an eye out for any differences until I have to combine them a bit for barrel aging in a couple months.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Oct 9, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> OK, the Grenache has been pressed and the skins discarded. No turning back now. I was surprised by how much color extraction I got in about 40 hours. Anxious to see what the color is like after everything settles. I had some FT Blanc Soft and decided to add that - a day and a half of soaking with no added sulfites, so I figured a little oxidation insurance wouldn't hurt even though it's typically a white wine additive. The Pinot Noir and Malbec are fizzing away and I expect I'll have caps forming by tonight.
> 
> View attachment 79417


Grenache always looks weird, we are still waiting for our Grenache at the winery I work at and when we sample the grapes for lab tests the juice is always orange/pink in color and it’s difficult to get color in Grenache based wines.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Oct 9, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Pinot Noir was at 0.996 and both Malbecs were at 0.994 so I pressed this morning. Things are looking good.
> 
> For those keeping track, I did 6 lugs of Malbec split into two batches. Everything was identical except in one I used OptiRed and used Noblesse in the other. There is currently no discernible difference in color, nose or taste. Interestingly, both yielded 7.5 gallons, in total. However, I got about a quarter gallon more free run out of the Noblesse batch, but more press run from the OptiRed batch. In the end, probably not a material difference, as it could've just been a difference in the positioning of the GHT and racking cane. For now, I'm going to call the results identical. I'll keep an eye out for any differences until I have to combine them a bit for barrel aging in a couple months.


I am a fan of opti red personally and we use it at work for our reds though we also use similar laffort products. I’ve started using nutristart which is lafforts fermaid for nutrients as it works better and is less expensive. I’m a fan of cold soaking and using either laffort he grand cru or scottzyme color pro to get better extraction and color and softer tannins cold soaking does make a significant difference especially with varietals that struggle with color.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 10, 2021)

Nebbiolo020 said:


> Grenache always looks weird, we are still waiting for our Grenache at the winery I work at and when we sample the grapes for lab tests the juice is always orange/pink in color and it’s difficult to get color in Grenache based wines.



@Cynewulf often referred Grenache to Grenache Gris which I had to look up. It appears there are 4 Grenache varietals and what we seem to be getting from the west coast is Grenache Gris. The others are Blanc, Noir and Lledoner Pelut.

Edition 2019 - Grenaches du Monde


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## mainshipfred (Oct 10, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Pinot Noir was at 0.996 and both Malbecs were at 0.994 so I pressed this morning. Things are looking good.
> 
> For those keeping track, I did 6 lugs of Malbec split into two batches. Everything was identical except in one I used OptiRed and used Noblesse in the other. There is currently no discernible difference in color, nose or taste. Interestingly, both yielded 7.5 gallons, in total. However, I got about a quarter gallon more free run out of the Noblesse batch, but more press run from the OptiRed batch. In the end, probably not a material difference, as it could've just been a difference in the positioning of the GHT and racking cane. For now, I'm going to call the results identical. I'll keep an eye out for any differences until I have to combine them a bit for barrel aging in a couple months.



I'm about to press my Malbec and curious what the yield will be. I have one less lug than you so I won't have as much. It's going to be interesting what the difference between a basket and bladder press will make.


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## Nebbiolo020 (Oct 10, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> @Cynewulf often referred Grenache to Grenache Gris which I had to look up. It appears there are 4 Grenache varietals and what we seem to be getting from the west coast is Grenache Gris. The others are Blanc, Noir and Lledoner Pelut.
> 
> Edition 2019 - Grenaches du Monde


Grenache noir is what I’m speaking of though we have Grenache blanc as well.


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## franc1969 (Oct 10, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> @Cynewulf often referred Grenache to Grenache Gris which I had to look up. It appears there are 4 Grenache varietals and what we seem to be getting from the west coast is Grenache Gris. The others are Blanc, Noir and Lledoner Pelut.
> 
> Edition 2019 - Grenaches du Monde


I asked Jim B- he said the grenache has always been pink from Washington Winemakers. Delta or Colavita, same. 
I ended up with several batches I hadn't planned for. Don't quite know what I was thinking, but I am fermenting several things I intended to make eventually, just not all at once. I suppose the correct answer is 'sure!' I passed the test!
And I can see how hard it is to press Concord vs. Grenache .


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## mainshipfred (Oct 13, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> I'm about to press my Malbec and curious what the yield will be. I have one less lug than you so I won't have as much. It's going to be interesting what the difference between a basket and bladder press will make.



Forgot to post the results. Yours come out to 2.5 gallons per lug. When I pressed at 1 bar I ended up with 13 gallons which is 2.6 gallons per lug. After that I removed the skins, fluffed them, pressed to 3 bar and got another gallon. This made 2.8 gallons per lug. Not sure what I was expecting but it was closer than what I might have guessed.


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## CDrew (Oct 13, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> Forgot to post the results. Yours come out to 2.5 gallons per lug. When I pressed at 1 bar I ended up with 13 gallons which is 2.6 gallons per lug. After that I removed the skins, fluffed them, pressed to 3 bar and got another gallon. This made 2.8 gallons per lug. Not sure what I was expecting but it was closer than what I might have guessed.



Nice press pressure data. I've kind of settled on 1 bar. But there is a bit more wine above that. I just get to the "sufficient wine" place and stop. Did you notice if the bladder press run got astringent above 2 bar? I am very curious about this press pressure variable. Thanks for posting your experience. In my opinion, having used both bladder and screw presses, the bladder press makes for a superior product. But, the screw press will last until the end of time. The bladder press has a finite lifespan. I'll likely replace the bladder at 5 years as PM.


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## mainshipfred (Oct 14, 2021)

CDrew said:


> Nice press pressure data. I've kind of settled on 1 bar. But there is a bit more wine above that. I just get to the "sufficient wine" place and stop. Did you notice if the bladder press run got astringent above 2 bar? I am very curious about this press pressure variable. Thanks for posting your experience. In my opinion, having used both bladder and screw presses, the bladder press makes for a superior product. But, the screw press will last until the end of time. The bladder press has a finite lifespan. I'll likely replace the bladder at 5 years as PM.



There was a slightly higher astringency in the 3 bar press but not enough to make me not want to use it. My preferment notes say it was not very tannic in the first place so that could be the reason.


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## Boatboy24 (Nov 11, 2021)

Update:

This morning, I took care of a few chores. I racked and sulfited the Rose, adding Lysozyme as well. Crazy acid fallout in the carboy, but the acidity is still there in the wine (I was too lazy to measure pH). It's very bright with good fruit, but a little lacking in tannin (I like a nice, dry Rose). Overall, very pleasant right now; but I'll be looking into ways to get it to feel a little drier. Color is bright, and very similar to a commercial Rioja rose I had nearby. I'm going to enjoy this wine. When that was all done and cleaned up, I gave the fermenters a good Oxy Clean treatment before putting them away for good until next season.


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## cmason1957 (Nov 11, 2021)

That is much lighter than I would have imagined from the color in the full carboy. I was expecting at least two or three shades darker. I guess that goes to show how darker things in bulk look .


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## Joe B. (Nov 12, 2021)

I've been growing Grenache 2 clones of Grenache for 12 years now and the difference between the color of the clones is striking. 1 is a Tabalas Creek clone the other the Old Vine California clone. If picked to early the tannins will kill you, I've found the brix level of your grapes perfect for what I am trying to make. I sort and any bunches that look less than completely ripe (a few translucent Berries) I make Rose out of. I also pull some juice and add to the rose batch. Lallzymne EX and OptiRed, GRE yeast. Once the fermentation is going strong I co-inoculate with B7 Direct MLB. I've had other people making the wine until a couple of years ago and let's say the results have been lets that optimum and I've learn for their experiences. I press just a little sweet and let it finish in the carboy trying to avoid too much tannin. I don't get hung up on color but Last year added a touch of Syrah, this year it is just fine. This what works for me.


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