# White "Stuff" on glass and floating on top of Cellar Craft kit?



## DrJayman (Feb 3, 2011)

Did a search on this and found a thread which made mention of a similar condition, but doesn't go into much depth/description. 

The kit is a cellar craft chateau du pays which came with the grape pack. Went through primary fermentation and was racked over to secondary on 1/30 (so has been there almost 4 days) and added enzyme. Airspace is about 3" below stopper per kit recommendations. Believe it is ready to rack over and degas, however..... First noticed white "spots" yesterday on the glass in the area between wine and stopper. I certainly didn't want to rack/degas if this an adverse condition even though SG is .994 and steady.

Today, I see an irregular, almost "paisley type" pattern of white substances on the wine's surface as well as white spots within the wine on the glass, most notably at the carboy shoulders and the indented bands in the glass.

I want to belive this is the enzyme reacting and entirely normal for these kits, (as I have a couple of the LE's coming soon!!) but couldn't locate a good description in kit literature or out here.

Any related experiences and guidance appreciated!!!!!! 

Also, how low does this enzyme need to rest/work, prior to degassing. Fermentation is way ahead of kit schedule.

Thanks!

Jay


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## ibglowin (Feb 3, 2011)

Sounds to me like your rushing things just a bit. A normal ferment on these kits is 6-8 days in Primary, then transfer everything over to secondary for 12 days and let it finish out. Rack off the gross lees, degas, add stabilizing and fining agents, add enzyme, and then let it sit for several weeks at least. 

The enzyme is slow to break down the protein (white milky stuff) but it will break it down nicely if you have done a proper racking and removed the bentonite beforehand and just give it time.


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## DrJayman (Feb 3, 2011)

That makes me feel much better! 

Primary ferm ran from 1/22-1/30, and kit recommended 9-10 days. Was also in a temp of around 75-77, so at least with others went faster than "printed." Still, I didn't want to take it off the skins early.

Had not seen any additional fermentation activity and SG was static, hence wondered about moving forward.

But now with a greater understanding of the time needed for enzymes to break down the white paisley topping, I feel better knowing that and waiting. Kit recommends 10-12 days in this step but made no mention of enzyme breakdown times.....and is further compounded/confusing for mentioning beginning 'clearing(degas)' step when SG below .998. Anyway, hope that info helps another going forward.

Thanks for this and any other white topping info!

Jay

p.s. poured off the lees from first rack and kept in fridge to let separate a few days. Scooped off the good juice and can say this is going to be a fantastic red! Can't wait to get the LE's going but hate I'll have to wait so long for them!


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## MN-winer (Feb 3, 2011)

The other thing to mention is that the white substance is not really harmful its just unsightly. I've done a few of these kits and never saw it, but seems to form on the top and at the surface in the carboy. I got this same kit ready to start this weekend.


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## DrJayman (Feb 3, 2011)

It is indeed unsightly! 

What I was REALLY worried about was that it was mold or something. they tell you to keep the grape pack submerged which is virtually impossible in a fermenting liquid. (Although received a tip to weight it down with a sterilized glass ball or something....)

Let me know how your batch goes!


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## robie (Feb 3, 2011)

DrJayman,

Unfortunately, I have some personal experience with this issue.
Don't get too upset too quickly, because there is definitely a way to get rid of it even if the enzyme fails to work for you.

True, it is not harmful, but if you don't get rid of it, it will still be forming a milky ring, even is a wine glass into which it is poured. Don't think you want that! 

To make sure the enzyme has worked, let the wine set for a week or so after racking. It sometimes takes that long for it to reform.

The enzyme almost always takes care of the milky substance, if given time. If after you've finish clearing, you still are getting this milky ring/layer, do the following and you will be rid of it:

After stabilizing and clearing, dissolve about 1/3 teaspoon of bentonite in a little water and add it to your wine, which is at a temperature above 72F. Stir bentonite in for about 3 or 4 minutes. Stir again on day two. Let it set for 3 more days at this temperature. 

Next, add SuperKlear to your wine per the instructions. Let it set until crystal clear. Rack the bentonite and other sediment off. Let racked wine set for a week to confirm no more milky substance. Your wine should be fine. The bentonite works well at this stage to drag the substance out of the wine.

However, don't add the bentonite into the wine when you have the enzyme in and working. Bentonite will stop the enzyme dead in its tracks. Wait until after clearing to add the bentonite.

Let us know how it all turns out and what you had to do.


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## DrJayman (Feb 3, 2011)

Thanks for adding Robie.... I was wondering about the "what if's" so to speak. Hope I or anyone else doesn't need to, but that is a solid contingencey plan sure to be most appreciated. You took some great notes.

I spoke with Daniel from Cellar Craft earlier this afternoon and will mention his thoughts and so forth, which will tie much with some of the things contributed here by many (but keep them coming!)

* This is to be expected... it can be concerning the first go around when occurs after a couple days of adding the pectin enzyme.

* The white "paisley" collection on top should subside and go away, but wait it out per kit instructions. Since this occurs in the secondary ferment stage, it requires a little patience even though you may not be seeing changes in SG.

* If at the end of this time it does not fix itself, let them know.

All other experiences welcome.....(maybe I should have put this over in the Cellar craft folder.....)


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## DrJayman (Feb 10, 2011)

Just wanted to give an update for prosperity and anyone else interested now or first experiencing this problem with one of these unique kits in the future....

If going by kit instructions, today would mark the end of 2nd fermentation and ready to clear. The white stuff has pretty much dissipated. There are still some floaties on the very top which appear to be either oak and/or some rememnants of grape pack, (I rinsed out what wouldn't go in bag and dumped back in during primary.)

It is so early, but just the smell and taste of the juice even after the first, though even very raw, is going to grow into pretty thing one day.


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