# Is it possible to blend yeasts?



## MontyPython

Just started a kit with a French blend of mourvedre, Grenache, syrah. Once again it came with the popular ec1118 yeast. So I kicked things off with that today. It works well in the cool temperatures of my cellar and gets it down to 1.01 in a week.

Wasn't until a friend of mine started asking me about the kinds of yeast and how it affects the wine (a question I wasn't fully equipped to answer, but basically said 'yes'), started thinking maybe I should have researched my options rather than just doing the kit.

Lavalin describes a few yeasts that produce characteristics, more appealing than what the ec1118 brings to the table. 

So, is it too late to introduce Something like a ICV-d80 to it to bring out a bit more tannins and structure?

Most of the few wines I've made so far are rather young but still come across fairly 1 dimensional.


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## Luc

Some yeasts have what is called the 'killer factor'.
They produce an enzyme that will inhibit other yeast strains.

next to that some yeast strains will reproduce more quicker as other.

So this all turns out to the survival of the fittest. In the end just one yeast strain will survive and you will find nothing left off the others.

So pick the yeast carefully in accordance to your needs.

Luc


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## Deezil

The secret behind doing what you're thinking, is that you have to run separate batches with the different yeasts, and blend later. As Luc pointed out, one yeast will usually out-compete the others, but other winemakers have hoped to achieve the same thing you're thinking. That's achieved by splitting the batch, or making however-many batches, and blending at the end to achieve the desired result.


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## MontyPython

Thanks for the responses. My original intention was more about a change of mind rather than some creative blending. However, that's a great tip regarding splitting the batches in case I actually want to do something like that!

For now, I'll just say lesson learned, and hope it comes out well!

Cheers,
Stephen


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## Wade E

For the most part the stronger yeast will take over usually meaning which ever starts first.


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## Midwest Vintner

Wade E said:


> For the most part the stronger yeast will take over usually meaning which ever starts first.



Yes, but remember the lalvin 1118/1116 are very strong yeasts to begin with. In a scenario with any other yeast, I'd assume those would take over.


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## bzac

changeing the yeast in a wine kit is one tweak I really don't reccomend.

during the manufacturing process the juice in a wine kit go through various processes such as high heat short duration pasturisation, concentration and enzyme extraction to name a couple.

the end result of these processes is that there is some polimerisation of the sugars and other compounds in the concentrate .
these long chain sugars are difficult for a yeast to ferment . which is at least part of the explaination for the phenomenon known as "kit Taste" .

the wine kit manufacturers do test alot of yeasts , and some commecial yeasts don't handle concentrates very well and there can be problems of getting the wine dry or exagerated KT.

thats why a monsteriously strong yeast like 1118 is used most of the time. it is such an agressive fermenter and doesn't tend to produce and off smells or flavours.

if you want to get some of the benefits of different yeast in a kit , you might try experimenting with small inactivated yeast product adtiitons such as biolees or noblese.
splitting your batch in half and adding some to one and none to the other is a good way to learn what works for you.

as for doing a ferment with two differnt yeast in the same fermenter , unless its a combined yeast specifically for this purpose like for example BM 4X4 , its not a good idea , stuck ferments and h2s are two things you may find down that road.

Zac


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## MontyPython

Thanks for all the insight everyone. I'll be starting a batch of Chillean malbec from fresh juice, so I will opt to try a different yeast with that.

Cheers


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## Passaggio

Making several batches with different yeasts and then blending them before bottling will get you the complex results you are probably looking for...


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## GibX

Try morewinemaking.com. They discuss the positive sides of combining yeasts. As for me, Ive had no difficulty. My wines are in facter better. Some batches I add two types at once, other bactches I'll add a second yeast half way through the fermentation. I'll start with the weaker yeast strain first, then add the powerful guys later. As for types of yeast, id get out of laviln and red star. Just my opinion, they are good, but think those are basic yeasts. There's a lot more commerical yeast strains that add better mouth feel, more complex aromoas, or lee aging than lavilan and red star.


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## Paolo_pin

I am totally agree with what all our friends wrote above. I can just add a bit suitable procedure, while we are using a strong yeast like EC1118. Since this kind of yeast is not a great flavour producer but a very strong fermentation agent, you can also prepare a "smart" yeast blend during rehydratation: a good possible ratio would be 20 g/hl about an aromatic yeast + 4-5 g/hl about EC1118. The last will be find really difficult to get in charge untill the alchool content will decrease the former yeast activity, since EC1118 is particularly resistent at higher alchool contents. The goal is to obtanin a flavoured wine with a nice and fast fermentation end. Hope it will be helpfull for you porpouse (remember: i am absolutely agree with don't play too much in yeast blend in the same vessel).


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## frankr3

two comments:
never mix 2 yeast during a fermantation. stick with your one choice based on your desired charastic results. this can cause havic.
use the yeast that comes with the kit. I attended seminars at the winemaker magazine conference and listened up to Tim Vangergraft (the god father of kits).
he states you can add sugar if you want more alcohol or play with the oak or blend kits together after they age. but, they do a lot of bench testing up front at the lab.


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## DaveL

So tonight I pitched the yeast on a batch of Strawberry Apple. I have it in 2 buckets due to the amount of strawberries. When I grabbed the yeast I didn't realize I had 1 D47 and 1 Ec1118. Both Lavlin.
So I used 1 on each bucket of 4-5 gallons. After primary fermentation can I blend these in a carboy?
I may have enough to age a gallon of each seperatly as well for experimentations sake.


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## Deezil

DaveL said:


> So tonight I pitched the yeast on a batch of Strawberry Apple. I have it in 2 buckets due to the amount of strawberries. When I grabbed the yeast I didn't realize I had 1 D47 and 1 Ec1118. Both Lavlin.
> So I used 1 on each bucket of 4-5 gallons. After primary fermentation can I blend these in a carboy?
> I may have enough to age a gallon of each seperatly as well for experimentations sake.



Just make sure that the D-47 goes dry, otherwise when you combine them, the dormant 1118 yeast will reactivate with the sugars leftover from D47 & you could potentially have a volcano..

Thats about the biggest worry.
As long as D-47 goes close to dry, you'll be fine with blending them after fermentation


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## Pumpkinman

I blend yeasts often, although this may not be wise or recommended for Kit wines, I've done it often with Juice Pails. I started blending yeasts after learning that the head wine maker at a local winery had been doing the same for years.


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## robie

Pumpkinman said:


> I blend yeasts often, although this may not be wise or recommended for Kit wines, I've done it often with Juice Pails. I started blending yeasts after learning that the head wine maker at a local winery had been doing the same for years.



Doing this also depends on the individual yeast strain and their ability to co-exist or co-ferment. Some strains will co-ferment; some will fight and kill the other yeast before they even start fermentation... it's an "all or nothing"!

You can find out about your particular yeast by looking at its specifications sheet.


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## Pumpkinman

Robie, 
I agree, I do a ton of research before I use any yeast, specially when I plan to blend.


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## Midwest Vintner

I would think blending two wines would be the best scenario. Even if they co-ferment, I doubt that it's going to be equal.

Do it by blending allows for more options (like 75/25) and you could just bottle the leftover by itself. The next time you make it, refer to your notes and split the fermentation accordingly.


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## Midwest Vintner

GibX said:


> Try morewinemaking.com. They discuss the positive sides of combining yeasts. As for me, Ive had no difficulty. My wines are in facter better. Some batches I add two types at once, other bactches I'll add a second yeast half way through the fermentation. I'll start with the weaker yeast strain first, then add the powerful guys later. As for types of yeast, id get out of laviln and red star. Just my opinion, they are good, but think those are basic yeasts. There's a lot more commerical yeast strains that add better mouth feel, more complex aromoas, or lee aging than lavilan and red star.



We are discussing this very subject right now, here??? I like different yeasts for different wines, but I wouldn't count out Lalvin or Red Star.


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## sdelli

Has anyone gotten a kit with a yeast strain other then EC-1118? Maybe just my luck but they all seem to come with that. I've been changing them lately....


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## Boatboy24

sdelli said:


> Has anyone gotten a kit with a yeast strain other then EC-1118? Maybe just my luck but they all seem to come with that. I've been changing them lately....



I've had a few that came with RC212. In fact the Pinot Noir I'll be starting soon did. Also had a Sauv Blanc that came with EC1118 AND K-V116. I've changed quite a few out though.


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## byathread

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, just researching blending yeasts in primary (I've done this before with mead using seemingly compatible strains with no issues, but never in wine).



frankr3 said:


> use the yeast that comes with the kit. I attended seminars at the winemaker magazine conference and listened up to Tim Vangergraft (the god father of kits).
> he states you can add sugar if you want more alcohol or play with the oak or blend kits together after they age. but, they do a lot of bench testing up front at the lab.



Tim is certainly the godfather of kits and I wouldn't contradict his opinion, though it sounds like he contradicts himself here in this article for Wine Maker mag (see #6) http://winemakermag.com/459-make-your-kit-wine-shine

Additionally, I find it very hard to believe to EC1118 is used in so many kits for any reason other than its utilitarian virtue (fast fermenting, high alcohol tolerance, good flocculation/clearing). Tim touches on that a bit as well.

While I know it is frequently recommended against to co-ferment with multiple yeast strains in the primary, it has never been totally clear to me why (assuming you do your research and choose "compatible" strains - I would assume "compatible" primarily meaning similar fermentation speed and nutrient requirements). I can see why it is beneficial on a commercial scale to be able to bench test specific ratio blends to achieve the ideal balance. However, on a small home scale it is certainly much more convenient to keep it all in one fermenter (at least for me). I've got a query into Lalvin/Lallemand/Scott Labs to see their recommendation for specific combinations in primary and will post if I get any valuable feedback.

Cheers.


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## jjduen

As a newbe, I split my Riesling in half and fermented two separate 3-gal fermenters. One had Redstar Curvee and the other Lalvin 71B-1122. A very distinct difference in taste can be observed. 

When time is right, I am going to bottle two gallons if each and then blend the two remaining one gals together to see what I get. 

But, what other brands of yeast are commonly use got wine other than Redstar, Lalvin, and Wyest?

I would like to read more on other types.


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## KenS

Ok, having read through this entire thread, I'm really confused tonight, as I just opened a Winexpert Eclipse Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc kit, and it has two packages of yeast in it. One is EC-1118 and the other is K1-V1116. I started a new thread asking if anybody else has seen this, but then saw this thread as well...hmmm


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## iVivid

You could message Wine Expert and ask them, KenS? They are really helpful!


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## byathread

jjduen said:


> But, what other brands of yeast are commonly use got wine other than Redstar, Lalvin, and Wyest?
> 
> I would like to read more on other types.



Kudos for experimenting! I did lots of 1 gallon "yeast test" mead batches back in the day and learned a lot. Lalvin/Lallemand is the brand I'm most familiar with, however, most places only carry a small number of their yeast strains in "home winemaker size" but MoreWine is a good source for their small yeast packets (30+) and information on said yeasts. Also, Lallemand has some good information on yeast/grape pairings and yeast descriptions on their commercial site. Yeast is fun!

Cheers.


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