# How do the commercial guys start their plants?



## myakkagldwngr (Mar 23, 2010)

Do the commercial growers that sell their grape vines start from a seed or do you think they start from cuttings? I'm sure I've read that it takes a three year old vine to produce it's first grapes.


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## gregmg (Mar 23, 2010)

Virtually all vines are started from cuttings. Starting from seed produces unpredictable results.


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## grapeman (Mar 23, 2010)

It could be worse than 3 or 4 years. Fruit trees take double that to start producing much. Grape growers often buy the vines to save the work and trouble of doing it. As far as the 3 or 4 years you just factor in the lead time into the business plan.


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## Racer (Mar 23, 2010)

In order to get a vine true to type you must start from a cutting. If you start from seed you will get a different type of grape due to cross pollination. Commercial folks will start from cuttings (if the vine type is right to have on it's own roots). If it needs to be on rootstock they will start rootstock from cuttings and then graft buds onto the rootstock after the vine has shown that it is growing for them.


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## gregmg (Mar 24, 2010)

Racer said:


> In order to get a vine true to type you must start from a cutting. If you start from seed you will get a different type of grape due to cross pollination.


I understand that it's even worse than that. The characteristics we look for in specific varietals are due the the expression of certain specific genes. A seed from a Pinot Noir that's pollinated by a Pinot Noir may start a vine that produces grapes that taste nothing like Pinot Noir.


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## myakkagldwngr (Mar 24, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't sure about how they went about it. Kind of the "chicken and egg" thing.
I definitely know about the fruit part of it. While I worked on a tomato farm we had a section of land that was very old and had a very bad nightshade problem. So the owner decided to plant it in citrus. 
None of the other managers wanted the extra work, but I looked on it as knowledge to be gained. We ended up planting about 400 acres of oranges all together. We started with trees that were about the size of a big pencil, called bare root stock. They had to be planted within two days, before the roots had time to dry out.


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## DesertDance (Mar 28, 2010)

I am a huge believer in starting grape vines from cuttings. Here is a link for you. Get your order in prior to June. Their deadline is Dec, but first come first served.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=12254 We need to do research, so our blends will be perfection! Gregmg seems to have nailed it, and although I recognize that, I can't stand it! I'm going farther!!

UC Davis sent me some stuff I didnt know I ordered!! My big job now is to make those babies into grapevines. Not to mention my cuttings from my grapevines that were out there in the BBQ fridge. Sigh. This is how I plan to do that. Order in place: http://[email protected] 

They have awesome trays that hold very good starters for your vines. Be sure to click on their photo link, and view the 1 million starts in a vineyard. I dont even work for them, and I adore them! Sheesh!!


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