# Temperature of reagents



## ceeaton (Apr 29, 2016)

Does anyone know if you need to allow your Sodium Hydroxide solution to warm up to room temperature before testing TA? I keep mine in the refrigerator as has been suggested here to increase it's longevity. Wasn't really thinking about it until I realized that if a pH meter doesn't adjust for temperature the reading may be off. Thanks.


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## Johnd (Apr 29, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Does anyone know if you need to allow your Sodium Hydroxide solution to warm up to room temperature before testing TA? I keep mine in the refrigerator as has been suggested here to increase it's longevity. Wasn't really thinking about it until I realized that if a pH meter doesn't adjust for temperature the reading may be off. Thanks.



I don't know if it makes a difference when chilled, but it'll warm up quickly when you add it to your room temp liquids.....


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## ceeaton (Apr 29, 2016)

Johnd said:


> I don't know if it makes a difference when chilled, but it'll warm up quickly when you add it to your room temp liquids.....



Good point. What I'm adding it to is about 55*F, so that is why I'm kinda worried. But the more I think of it, and the more beer I drink, the pH meter is adjusting for temperature, and I would think (possibly in error) that the Sodium Hydroxide would follow the same rules. Maybe Paul's wife (@sourgrapes) who I think is a Chemist, would be able to answer my question.


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## ceeaton (Apr 29, 2016)

*Has my Sodium Hydroxide seen better days?*

Okay, now I've tested my buckets. Something doesn't seem to add up.

Pinot Noir - pH 3.69, TA 6.3 g/L (TA might be a little high but this is my first PN)
Pinot Grigio #1 - pH 3.58, TA 6.5 g/L
Pinot Grigio #2 - pH 3.59, TA 6.8 g/L

TA is okay on the PG, but that pH is hard to believe. Tasted the bucket manually, but it's so sweet I doubt I could taste a difference in acidity. Tested the Pinot Noir again, tested the same pH wise, and when I dip my meter into the "control" solutions, it measures within .01 that the solution is rated for (4.01 and 7.01).

Should I get new Sodium Hydroxide solution and retest (and hope it shows my TA's much lower)? If it tests the same after the new solution is purchased, what in the heck would you do with the Pinot Grigio? Last year @JohnT had me add tartaric acid to up my TA into the low 6 g/L range and the pH fell to 2.75. It was a wonderful wine (1 bottle left), so I'm concerned about a PG with a pH of 3.58. Spock help me. Help me, Spock....


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## sour_grapes (Apr 29, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Good point. What I'm adding it to is about 55*F, so that is why I'm kinda worried. But the more I think of it, and the more beer I drink, the pH meter is adjusting for temperature, and I would think (possibly in error) that the Sodium Hydroxide would follow the same rules. Maybe Paul's wife (@sourgrapes) who I think is a Chemist, would be able to answer my question.



Thanks for thinking of us. Actually, she is a physicist, too. Ain't that a blast? In other words, neither of us are good for anything....


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## ceeaton (Apr 29, 2016)

sour_grapes said:


> Thanks for thinking of us. Actually, she is a physicist, too. Ain't that a blast? In other words, neither of us are good for anything....



Well then, the question begs to be asked, who is the Chemist?

See, I shouldn't be allowed to drink and surf the forums.

Maybe I dreamt it up. My wife says I do that alot. I tell her "only in your dreams".


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## sour_grapes (Apr 29, 2016)

ASFAIK, the chemists here are Mike (ibglowin) and GreginND. I infer that Mike is an Analytical, and Greg is Organic. Did I miss anyone?


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## Johnd (Apr 29, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Okay, now I've tested my buckets. Something doesn't seem to add up.
> 
> Pinot Noir - pH 3.69, TA 6.3 g/L (TA might be a little high but this is my first PN)
> Pinot Grigio #1 - pH 3.58, TA 6.5 g/L
> ...



I wouldn't make any adjustments to any of those wines based on those readings. If you decide to lower the ph of your PG, you can do it post ferm., when you can taste the wine without all of the sugar tricking your palate.


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## ceeaton (Apr 29, 2016)

Johnd said:


> I wouldn't make any adjustments to any of those wines based on those readings. If you decide to lower the ph of your PG, you can do it post ferm., when you can taste the wine without all of the sugar tricking your palate.



Thanks, that is what I needed to hear. It is still a bit cold to pitch the yeast so I'm waiting until tomorrow morning. I still need to get some new solution, I think. Doesn't cost too much and I think it is about 9 months old. So even though I kept it in the fridge, it might be on the way out.

I like to do things pre-ferment if I can, but sometimes it isn't worth getting my skirt all twisted up in knots over something I can a-dress later.

Thanks,


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## Johnd (Apr 30, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> Thanks, that is what I needed to hear. It is still a bit cold to pitch the yeast so I'm waiting until tomorrow morning. I still need to get some new solution, I think. Doesn't cost too much and I think it is about 9 months old. So even though I kept it in the fridge, it might be on the way out.
> 
> I like to do things pre-ferment if I can, but sometimes it isn't worth getting my skirt all twisted up in knots over something I can a-dress later.
> 
> Thanks,



Not at all, your TA is in range, if you raise it a bit, the lower ph will only make AF and MLF environment (on your red) a little less hospitable. Admittably, I'm sure you'd only have made a very slight adjustment which wouldn't be a big deal. 

I'm living vicariously through your and Jim's winemaking right now, I won't get my stuff for another three weeks. Closest drive for me to get it fresh (not frozen) is about 13 hours each way. Got 2 cabs and two malbecs coming, hopefully my numbers will be in a similar range to yours. 

What yeasts have you decided to use?


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## ceeaton (Apr 30, 2016)

Johnd said:


> Not at all, your TA is in range, if you raise it a bit, the lower ph will only make AF and MLF environment (on your red) a little less hospitable. Admittably, I'm sure you'd only have made a very slight adjustment which wouldn't be a big deal.
> 
> I'm living vicariously through your and Jim's winemaking right now, I won't get my stuff for another three weeks. Closest drive for me to get it fresh (not frozen) is about 13 hours each way. Got 2 cabs and two malbecs coming, hopefully my numbers will be in a similar range to yours.
> 
> What yeasts have you decided to use?



You live dangerously if you follow me! I think Jim is the safer bet !

Actually, it was the Sodium Hydroxide solution (I just had a very loud exhale of worry from earlier). I put it in the fridge like Mike (ibglowin) told me, but it still has gone down hill since last fall (I think I bought the new one in July or so). So on my Spring and Fall list I'm adding a new bottle of Sodium Hydroxide. It's only about $4 or so. Also need to get some new 4.01 and 7.01 solution, just used the last of that.

The Pinot Noir numbers looked okay to me, but others probably snickered and said, a Pinot with a TA of 6.5 g/L? yea right. But I know something was out of whack with the Pinot Grigio, that high of a pH and that high of a TA? Here's what I got with the new solution:

Pinot Noir: pH 3.69 TA 3.5g/L
Pinot Grigio #1: pH 3.55 TA 4.2 g/L
Pinot Grigio #2: pH 3.55 TA 4.3 g/L

Now I can adjust all three, just the PG more than the PN.

Planning on using RC 212 for the Pinot Noir. Adding some Opti-red and maybe a bit of FT Rouge (a bit only, low low levels) to the juice. Grapes are in a separate bucket with Lallzyme EX (12 hours after Kmeta). Will soon put into a common bucket and may paint strainer bag the grapes so I can hand press (only 18 lbs worth - almost not worth dirtying my butt bucket press or my butt).

The Pinot Grigio, after tartaric acid adjustment will get some FT Blanc Soft and some Booster Blanc, then one will get QA23, the other D47. Will ferment and do everything the same as much as possible. Want to see the differing results of the two yeasts as they age, and as Boatboy Jim said it will be interesting to see if the two yeasts ever converge in flavor profiles with enough age. I plan on keeping about 6 bottles of each separate to I can give to the two Jim's, Jeff (Jim's friend) and a few others who drink nothing except PG, in about 3 years.


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## Johnd (Apr 30, 2016)

ceeaton said:


> You live dangerously if you follow me! I think Jim is the safer bet !
> 
> Actually, it was the Sodium Hydroxide solution (I just had a very loud exhale of worry from earlier). I put it in the fridge like Mike (ibglowin) told me, but it still has gone down hill since last fall (I think I bought the new one in July or so). So on my Spring and Fall list I'm adding a new bottle of Sodium Hydroxide. It's only about $4 or so. Also need to get some new 4.01 and 7.01 solution, just used the last of that.
> 
> ...



Wow, that's a difference for sure, you got a little work to do. Good call on getting the new solution, you owe @ibglowin on that one for sure! Made me go check the date on my solution. 

Sounds like a good solid plan on both wines. Hohum, I'll catch up in a few weeks.


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## ColemanM (Apr 30, 2016)

I trust you will be posting in the "what's in your glass tonight" Craig? [emoji12] all your testing has made me wonder what my Malbec, Syrah, Sangio and Cab from last year are coming in at. Hmm may have to sneak in to the basement tonight.


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## ceeaton (Apr 30, 2016)

ColemanM said:


> I trust you will be posting in the "what's in your glass tonight" Craig? [emoji12] all your testing has made me wonder what my Malbec, Syrah, Sangio and Cab from last year are coming in at. Hmm may have to sneak in to the basement tonight.



I may stick with beer. I just started moderating an adult Sunday school class and need to be sharp enough in the morning not to screw anything up! But I have a lot of Boatboy selections sitting in front of me, so it is tough not to do some testing.


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