# Chokecherry Wine - My First Attempt



## TasunkaWitko (Mar 9, 2016)

Chokecherry Wine - My First Attempt

Those of us who live in “Chokecherry Country” know that we have a great thing going with these wonderful little spheres of purplish-black love, known scientifically as _Prunus virginiana_. Chokecherries are an integral part of the culture and the people who live with them, from the Native American tribes who gathered and used them hundreds (and probably thousands) of years ago, to the pioneers and settlers who arrived to tame the land and discovered an irresistible treat waiting for them when they arrived.

All my life, I’ve enjoyed chokecherries, mostly in the form of syrup and jelly, but occasionally in a few other creative ways. Late last year, I even brewed a chokecherry-wheat ale that came out really well, and I intend to brew it again later this year. But in spite of the fact that I have lived in Montana and the Dakotas all of my life, one of the most popular ways to experience the chokecherry is one that I had never tried before - in wine.

Last year, I set out to remedy that situation when I picked several pounds of chokecherries in the mountains south of home with my youngest son. It was one of those late-summer mornings that exist to let you know that autumn is approaching; cool, foggy and with occasional drizzles of light rain. The aroma of wet leaves and grass was heavy in the air, and in many ways, it was nearly a perfect time to be where I was and doing what I was doing. Interestingly, the chokecherries proved to be difficult to find last year, due to a late-spring frost; however, after much searching outside of our usual areas, we did find a couple of nice groves that contained a wonderful harvest of plump, ripe chokecherries. I made some of them into syrup, and I used a small portion for the aforementioned chokecherry-wheat ale that I brewed...and the rest eventually became my first attempt at chokecherry wine.

The Wonderful, Thoughtful and Beautiful Mrs. Tas, knowing my desire to learn about making wine, bought this 1-gallon kit for my last birthday:

http://mastervintner.com/master-vintner-fresh-harvest-fruit-winemaking-kit/

What I especially like about this kit is that it simply contains the equipment and necessary additives for making wine; the beauty of it is that you get to supply all of your own fruit for making it, and it can be whatever you want. You can get it at the market, grow it in your garden...or you can gather what Nature provides. The possibilities are endless, and I am grateful to her for choosing this option, because I feel that it would be much more rewarding to go this route, than to make a “normal” wine using pre-packaged ingredients from a factory somewhere. This type of venture appeals to me, a descendant of immigrants, farmers, gardeners and gatherers going all the way back through their migrations to their origins; Montana, North Dakota, Ukraine, The Black Forest Region of Germany, and finally to 18th Century Alsace - and before that, as well.

There are probably hundreds of different recipes for chokecherry wine out there on hand-written notecards and in kitchen cupboards all across the northern United States and Southern Canada, often written with vague, generalised instructions using archaic terminology or esoteric-sounding directives such as “soak chokecherries in water until a white film grows over them, then add bread yeast.” There are also quite a few recipes to be found on the internet; however, it seemed to me that many of those recipes will contain blends with other fruits or wines, or that they call for the wind to be infused with additives, adjuncts and other ingredients that are - in my opinion - distractions from the true character of the chokecherry. In most cases, the recipes that I found are for very large batches of wine, calling for 50 or 60 pounds of chokecherries at a time and methods that could almost be on an industrial scale. Even most of the smaller recipes were for a minimum of 20 gallons of wine, an amount that would take me decades to consume.

For my own requirements, a small, low-maintenance, home-based batch that would be typical of any rural farmhouse wine, there were a few recipes out there; all were similar, but there were differences in the details that were enough to be a bit confusing for someone who has never made “real” wine before. Luckily, I found salvation in the form of a friendly and helpful woman on a home-brewing forum that I am a member of who goes by the moniker of “Yooper.” Being from the Midwest, she has been making chokecherry wine for many years; consequently, she is very well-versed on the fundamentals of the process, the pitfalls and the dozens of other little things that will really help someone who is starting out. Thanks to her experience and mentorship, I was able to bring some order to the chaos and finally get this project started after several years of wandering around aimlessly in the wilderness. I am very grateful to her for all of her patient and valuable help with this project!

Here is her recipe, scaled down to 1 gallon:



> Yooper’s Chokecherry Wine
> 
> 2-1/2 pounds chokecherries
> 2 pounds table sugar
> ...



Due to several factors, including my father’s recollections from watching his own father make chokecherry wine years ago, my attempt was slightly different; however, It seems that the essentials should be close enough to get things started so that I can learn what I am doing and why I am doing it. My goal was for a slightly- (but not overly-) sweet, fruity wine that has plenty of rich, chokecherry flavour. Once I am able to see the results of this batch, I will be able to adjust toward that end, if necessary.

Here’s how my first batch of wine came together (deviations from Yooper’s original recipe are in parenthesis, for comparison):



> Ron’s Chokecherry Wine (First Attempt):
> 
> 2.9 pounds chokecherries (2.5 pounds in original recipe, but 2.9 is what I had)
> 1 cup golden raisins (my interpretation of “a few” called for in original recipe)
> ...



I began my chokecherry wine on Saturday, February 27th, 2016. Since beginning this project, I have been trying to follow the basic procedure outlined in Yooper’s instructions, but there have been a couple of minor differences. With my work and home schedule, I’ve only been able to stir the chokecherry must once each day, rather than twice. Another difference is that I’ve never used a hydrometer before and don’t yet have all of what I need to use one in order to check specific gravity, final gravity etc.; I’ve since ordered the modest equipment that I need, so I will have it by the next time I start a batch of wine. This will help me keep better track of what my wine is doing at various stages of its progress, and will allow me to accurately measure the alcohol content, as well.

At the time of this writing, I am still in the beginning stages of fermentation. I will keep a record of my progress here on this thread as I learn what I am doing. This will serve the dual purpose allowing me to retrace my steps next time - adjusting when necessary - while also (hopefully) providing useful information for anyone who is wanting to start their own batch of chokecherry wine. This and subsequent posts will contain terminology that might be new to those who have not made wine before; to be honest, I am still learning many of these terms myself, so my understanding of them is still rather superficial. I might know some definitions, but it will take more experience before I am able to grasp the context of and interrelationships between many fundamental aspects of home winemaking. I will do my best to explain some of these terms when and where I can. If you have questions, please be sure to ask, or to consult many of the excellent resources available.

Here is a record of my progress up until this point:



> Saturday, February 27th, 2016
> 
> Well, Glory be ~ I was finally able to start my chokecherry wine today!
> 
> My dad, who used to watch his dad make chokecherry wine, came over today telling me about his progress with his own first batch of wine, which he started a couple of days ago. Because of this, I figured that now is the time to finally get going, and I am sure glad that I did. Everything went very smoothly, and I think that I am going to end up with some very nice wine. It actually took longer to get the equipment clean and sanitised than it did to actually get the wine going, so once again, I am kicking myself for taking so long in getting a project started. I could have been sampling some wine right now, If I would have gotten going on it!





> Sunday, February 28th, 21016
> 
> I did my first stirring and pitched my Montrachet yeast today; I had intended to make a yeast starter, but forgot to do so.
> 
> ...





> Monday, February 29th, 2016
> 
> I stirred my must and squeezed my bag of chokecherries today after work. I was unsure about just how vigorously I should be squeezing things out, so I gave it a few firm squeezes, squishing around so as to hopefully mash up the chokecherries (but not the stones, of course), and then called it good. It did look like a lot of pulpy stuff seeped out of the mesh bag, and I am guessing that by the time my first week is through, I'll have what is essentially a bag of skins and pits.
> 
> ...





> Tuesday, 1 March 2016 (morning)
> 
> I looked in on my wine this morning. Ambient temperature was 68 degrees, so I bumped it up just a tiny bit to stay around 70. It was dark in the room, but I think I saw the beginnings of some foam at the top, which I would take as a confirmation of fermentation. It might also have been the mesh bag; I'll know for sure when I get home from work.
> 
> ...





> Tuesday, 1 March 2016 (evening)
> 
> I came home tonight from work and checked on my wine before stirring it. It looks like things are going well!
> 
> ...





> 2 March, 2016
> 
> As if this morning, things appear to be moving right along. My ambient temperature was 71 degrees when I took a quick peek this morning, and the heart-warming smell of fermenting chokecherries was in the air. I’ll stir tonight when I get home and note any progress.





> 3 March 2016
> 
> I stirred my chokecherry must again when I got home from work last night. Temperatures were holding steady at 71 degrees, right where they need to be.
> 
> ...





> 4 March 2016
> 
> I took a quick look this morning - The chokecherries are smelling beautiful - I'm loving it! Ambient temperature was right between 70 and 71 degrees - I think things are going just fine!
> 
> ...





> 5 March 2016
> 
> Well, today I did receive the hydrometer testing tube in the mail. It was also the day that, by the schedule, I should rack over from my primary bucket to my gallon-sized glass fermenter. I went ahead and did exactly that this evening, and here is what I ended up with:
> 
> ...





> 6 March 2016
> 
> I took a look at my chokecherry wine just a moment ago. It appears to be doing very well and looks like it is already starting to clear as the sediment has settled down a LOT. I've been describing the colour as deep burgundy, but it would probably be more accurate to say that it is somewhere between a deep burgundy and deep mahogany; either way, it looks beautiful, so far.
> 
> ...



That’s where I am at so far - I’ll take a look at it this weekend and see what I’ve got.


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## dorfie (Mar 9, 2016)

Very nice detailed notes! i wish i had the ambition to write that much, i'm lucky if i record when i started and racked! 
It is looking pretty good from what i can tell. I use a bit more fruit with my chokecherry wine, but I am shooting for a heavier dry wine. 
you probably won't have a massive amount of airlock activity since it is mostly fermented at 1.000. 
The only thing that i would mention is timing for racking. I think there is some discussion on when it should be racked. I personally wait until the vast majority of the lees settle out before doing my first racking. I do this to loose less wine from rackings, and to try to reduce the wines exposure. others rack earlier, its up to personal preference I would say. 
my chokecherry (from whole fruit) takes awhile to clear. now i mostly use juice for it. 
Great start!


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## TasunkaWitko (Mar 10, 2016)

Hi, Dorfie, and thanks for the kind words. I do a lot of writing, and I am a big believer in documenting things for people to read and understand for the future, so it kind of goes hand-in-hand. 

I took a quick peek this morning and the wine was clearing up quite a bit, but of course was still a little cloudy. After less than a week sitting, there seem to be quite a bit of lees on the bottom, and more to come, I am sure. My recipe from Yooper says to rack after 30 days; she also mentions that she adds a crushed campden tablet at every other racking in order to prevent oxidation. I'll see how things go. 

The wine also seemed to show a little bit of fermentation activity, and had a bit of a "fizzy" appearance. According to what little I know this is normal after transferring from primary, as fermentation finishes up. The colour is absolutely beautiful, and promising to become even more so as it clears up.


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## dorfie (Mar 11, 2016)

Agree wholeheartedly with the crushed campden tablet, it prevents the wine from oxidizing or getting any microbial growth during bulk ageing. 
Fizzy-ness is to be expected, the wine is still fermented and saturated with CO2 from fermenting, as it bulk ages it releases this gas, and becomes still.

Like I said, there are different thoughts on when to rack, I normally rack as little as possible, so I will often have a decent amount of lees. You would still have what's called "gross lees" which are lees made of fruit particles in your wine, these can possibly cause off flavors, so people will normally rack once the majority of them fall out. I have left it several months on gross lees and not had any issues however. So I would say go by when you feel that majority of the particles have fallen out, and when you have some time! I think when I have time determines mine more than anything ha! 

Chokecherry is one of my absolute favorites, always turns out great! keep it up, and have fun with it!


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## TasunkaWitko (Mar 11, 2016)

Sounds like some good advice there, and it goes along with what I've learned as I get more experienced at brewing beer. My own schedule is determining most of when things happen.

I plan to not even really think about it for about 30 days, and will see how it is. If it goes 45 or so, it sounds like it's no big deal. My main goal is clarity, and a bit of a toning down of the sourness and bitterness (tannin?).

Funny thing - my dad started a similar batch a few days before I started mine. The main difference is that he did not crush/press his chokecherries. He's racked it off, with maybe a pint left over. I told him to save that for topping off future rackings, but he prefers to drink it the way it is. It actually tastes pretty good now, not as acidic or bitter as mine, but maybe a little "warm" and slightly thin." Of course, mine has much, much more pulp/particles than his, because I squeezed and pressed mine to the point where the skins and pulp were liquefied. I said that he'll need to let it age for at least a year, maybe two ~ and he said no way he's going to wait THAT long...lol


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## dorfie (Mar 11, 2016)

Yah it's pretty incredible how some changes in practice will garner vastly different outcomes. I am not sure if your bitterness would be tannin or acid, or just the particles that are floating right now. 
When I make mine with juice, I add tannin and acid to it, can't seem to find me notes from when I made it from whole fruit. I would guess that it just tastes "young" right now, and will smooth out in time. 

One of the hardest parts of this hobby is patients haha! It's hard but usually worth it to save a few to age!


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## TasunkaWitko (Mar 14, 2016)

I hear ya, dorfie - the wait is killing me, but I figure I'll make some Dragon's Blood and Skeeter Pee in order to tide me over in the short term!

Here's a quick update and a question, for those who might have an answer:

My chokecherry wine was racked from primary fermentation to my 1 gallon fermenter 8 days ago. SG reading was exactly 1.000, if I am reading it correctly. There was enough to fill just within an inch or so of the top of the fermenter. Temperatures are in the close neighbourhood of 68 degrees.

It looks to be clearing nicely and is getting a really beautiful colour. There is probably half an inch of lees on the bottom, still some clearing to go, of course. This morning I noticed just a bare hint of what I *think* might be a sulfur smell, along with some really nice emerging chokecherry aroma.

My question is, should I go ahead and rack it onto a crushed/diluted campden tablet now, after 8 days, or wait it out to 30 days?

Thanks for any advice -

Ron


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## dorfie (Mar 14, 2016)

I would wait, I would definitely wait. the lees at the bottom will compact more as time passes, giving you more wine. Also I don't add campten until the second racking (moving from the primary to secondary is technically a transfer) because there should still be adequate sulfate preserving the wine from the initial dose.


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## TasunkaWitko (Mar 14, 2016)

Sounds good - I will do that.

First batch, so I'm like first-time parents! LOL

Many thanks ~

Ron


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## TasunkaWitko (Mar 28, 2016)

28 March 2016

Here's how it's looking a little over 3 weeks after racking out of primary:






It's clearing up very well, it's got a nice, rich, deep colour and I think we're onto something good here. I'll probably rack it off the lees next week, which will be after 4 weeks. We'll see.

My dad stopped by while I was checking on it, and of course he had to sample it. Before, it was filled nearly to the top, but now it is down a bit, as shown above. My question is, should I be topping it off, or is it fine at that level?


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## dorfie (Mar 29, 2016)

It is fine at that level. I go by if the wine has reached, or is nearing the full with of the bottle, then you need to top up. Some will say earlier, but most of the time I trust the sulfates to keep with wine from oxidation up to that point. 
It's looking good!


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## TasunkaWitko (Mar 30, 2016)

Thanks, Dorfie - I do have reason to hope that my first attempt will be successful. 

The main thing I am learning is similar to what I learned about brewing beer: just leave it alone and let it do its job; first the yeast, then the wine/beer itself.


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## dorfie (Apr 1, 2016)

TasunkaWitko said:


> Thanks, Dorfie - I do have reason to hope that my first attempt will be successful.
> 
> The main thing I am learning is similar to what I learned about brewing beer: just leave it alone and let it do its job; first the yeast, then the wine/beer itself.



Most definitely! Patients is key with these things. I always try to mess as little as possible. Just check once in a while to see how things are progressing, and adjust as needed. 
Once you get a good thing going, you'll be hooked! And once you get the basics down you will get a rhythm and feel for whats going on. 
Have Fun!


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## TasunkaWitko (Apr 20, 2016)

On Sunday, 17 April, I racked my wine over in order to get it off the lees. I used a crushed/dissolved campden tablet in order to ward off any possibility of oxidation, and the procedure went without any hitches that I am aware of. 

The wine seems to be clearing very well on its own; I sucked up a little bit of the lees, but not very much at all, considering what was there before. There is a thin film at the bottom of my fermenter now, but nothing that I plan on getting excited about. I'll check it again in a month or so, and rack one more time if necessary before stabilizing and bottling. 

Due to my dad's "sampling" and the space that was opened up when I took it off the lees, I did have to top it off a little to get it to the same level as shown above. Since this appears to be a normal procedure and the recipe takes this into account, I am not concerned. I used a cup or so of the same spring water that I use when I started the wine, which has always worked very well in my beer brewing. The next time I make chokecherry wine, I'll be able to top it off with...chokecherry wine! 

The only questions that I really have at this point would be:

a) Does temperature matter at this point? It is currently in a place where it is around 70 degrees, but if I move it down to the dark, cooler basement, I am assuming that it can continue to "do its thing" undisturbed.

b) Is an airlock still required, or can I use a screw-top lid now that all fermentation is finished?

Other than that, I think I am on my way to some very nice wine. It has an aroma that is really something - I'm still learning my vocabulary for this, but I like it. I took a very small sample that settled out of the lees and found it to be very, very good. It does have a noticeably bitter (tannic?) edge to it, which I am guessing to be expected at this young stage, but with some really nice chokecherry just starting to come through. I suspect that as things come into balance, it is going to be really nice. 

I have no plans to back-sweeten at this time, but we'll give more thought to that option when we get to that point. 

Near as I can tell, I am very well on track with this. Time will tell, of course ~


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## Scooter68 (Apr 20, 2016)

Yes - Move it to the basement. Best temp for long term aging is 55 F but between 68-70 is considered by the pro's as quite acceptable. (Checked with several sites other than this one to be sure.) 
Yes - Keep the airlocks in place. If nothing else they can tell you if any gassing off is going on - They should pretty much not be 'burping' during the aging process. If you have any residual sugars in your wine it would be a shame to have them start fermenting again and blow up. 

That bitterness may be due to the influence of the lees or just the 'youthfulness' of your wine. Many stories on here and other sites about those early months and sharp/biting tastes that mellowed out as the wine matures. There are always exceptions but what everyone keeps reporting is that at about a year your wine should really be hitting it's stride and ready to be enjoyed. I have had a couple that were ready (Quite enjoyable) much earlier but that is not normally the case.

One last thing. Backsweeting is totally a personal pref but if you have a little to spare you might try a little sweetening to see fit it kicks up the flavor a notch for you. My blueberry wine was ho-hum until I sweetened it up to about 1.000. Fruit wines just seem to need a little of that.


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## TasunkaWitko (Apr 21, 2016)

Hi, Scooter, and thanks for the post. It pretty much confirms what my instincts were about, and it's good to know that I'm on the right track.

The tannic taste is actually kind of nice - rather like the bit a person gets when eating a good, dark chocolate. I don't mind it at all, but I am really interested in the chokecherry that is emerging from the shadows. I am thinking that as it moves forward and things come into balance, I am going to find myself with a really nice table wine.

I was thinking about experimenting with back-sweetening a bit - maybe one or two bottles - or even a glass at sampling. I've got plenty of chokecherries for at least two more batches, maybe three, so I can even back-sweeten a whole batch for comparison.


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## Scooter68 (Apr 21, 2016)

I usually draw off 1 or 2 cups to test my sweetening amount. Recently I sweetened some apple using my own simple syrup of 1/2 cup water 1 cup sugar. (Heated the water to near boiling, added sugar then let it cool.)

I started with 2 cups of wine and added 1/4 oz of simple syrup . That was Ok but not quite as sweet as I wanted it & The apple flavor was still hiding in there somewhere. (Tested the SG and it was 1.000 (It started at .992)) Added another 1/4 oz and it was just ever so slightly sweet - SG was now 1.003. I then figured how much more I had to add to the remainder of the gallon. 14 cups x 1/4 oz = 3.5

Your numbers and preferences may vary (And my memory of the amounts may be off too) but that's one way to try without committing the entire gallon or even a bottle to being either too sweet or too dry.

You can do this with 1 cup but then measuring the simple syrup becomes tough. My Hydrometer cup needs at least 4 oz to read so a minimum of one cup is best.


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 3, 2016)

Hi, Scooter - sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this. I've still got the wine bulk-aging (and hopefully clearing) in my closet, and haven't taken a look at it in a little over a month. I was planning on racking it over this weekend for the final time before bottling.

As for the sweetening, I'll see what's up - I like the simple syrup idea, and might simply make some, adding it a little at a time until I get somewhere that I like. In fact, I actually have some chokecherry syrup that I made with the same batch of chokecherry syrup last year, so that might be an option. Then again, I might just leave this first batch alone to do its thing and bottle the batches as-is, then experiment with a cup or two here and there as you suggest.

I don't know - it's my first batch!


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 4, 2016)

Well - today, Saturday, 4 June, I tried racking my wine again, after a little nearly 7 weeks of settling and bulk-aging. I snuck (sneaked?) a wee sip before doing so, and it tasted great. Unfortunately, I then proceeded to run into a wee problem.

The wine seemed to have cleared quite well, and there was only a bit of fine sediment on the bottom. I was thinking that after this racking, I'd be ready to bottle in a month or so, but a couple of things happened, and now I don't know if I'll even have good wine.

Here's how it went down: I began racking it over, and everything seemed fine; then, my siphon/tubing started making a sucking noise for some reason, pulling nearly as much air as wine into the fermenter that I was racking into. There was no apparent reason for this, as the end of my siphon was completely submerged nearly to the bottom (and probably picking up a bit of lees, too) as far as I could tell. Then, the siphoning action quit completely, with probably a quart left to go in the racking.

It was here that I did two things that either saved my wine, or ruined it.

First, since there was obviously an issue with the siphon, I carefully poured the last of the wine into the new fermenter, completing the racking over. I was as careful as possible, but of course some air (and lees) got into the new fermenter. I held back maybe a half-cup of wine that was filled with stirred-up sediment. This, by the way, tasted pretty darn good, albeit "muddy." from the lees.

Then, worried about oxidation, I crushed and dissolved a campden tablet in 1/4 cup of hot water, then added 1/4 cup of cold water to bring the temperature of the water to room temperature. I had added a campden tablet with the previous racking (on 17 April), but all things considered, I figured I'd better do it again; however, in doing so, I had no choice but to add a half cup of water to my wine. This had the effect of bringing the level of the wine up into the neck of the fermenter, so perhaps all will be alright, I hope.

So - how bad did I frak this wine up? I don't know; maybe things will be fine; maybe things will be only a little messed up and maybe it's ruined.

Time will tell. I'll take a look at it in a couple of weeks, then see what I have. I will probably not add any finings; but then again, maybe I will. I'll probably cold-crash, stabilise and bottle, in whatever order is appropriate.

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 5, 2016)

I doubt that any serious issue will come up other than another racking to get rid of whatever got sucked up or poured in. 
Did early wine makers have racking canes and tubing? Or were they forced to pour carefully? As for oxidization, again you filled up the carboy right. Unless it was foaming through the tube, I think it should do fine.


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 5, 2016)

Hey, Scooter - thanks for the reassurance. It wasn't foaming through the tube, but there were some bubbles, which was confusing. I'd never seen that before, but my guess (hope) is that the campden tablet will take care of everything.

My only worry now is that I'm diluting my wine, but my understanding is that these recipes take into account that there will be some topping off. In the future, I'll be able to top with some chokecherry wine; but for now, it looks like water - hopefully not too much!


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## Arne (Jun 11, 2016)

Get some small hose clamps and use with your hose and siphon tubes. Found some that need some kind of hose clamp pliers at Ace hardware and some at Harbor Freight that have thumb screws on them. The H.F. ones come in a kit with a bunch of different sizes, will probably only use one or two of the sizes, the Ace ones are sold seperately for 30 or 40 cents apiece. Don't remember the price for sure. Arne.


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 11, 2016)

Hi, Arne - my dad and I were talking earlier this week and he suggested something similar. I'll have to give it a shot, because that little incident set this project back a few weeks. No worries, though, It seems to be pretty happy, still.

I'll take a look at it in 2 or 3 weeks and see what I have. I am pretty sure I got most of the lees in spite of the troubles, but of course there will probably still be some remaining, plus a little more.


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## Arne (Jun 13, 2016)

If you have too much trouble with the lees, take a board and put under one side of the carboy. Let it sit for a couple of weeks and when you rack, rack off the high side of the carboy. You might loose a little more wine, but it is easier to leave most of the lees in the donor carboy. Good luck with it, Arne.


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 13, 2016)

Sounds good - thanks!


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 16, 2016)

I drew out a tiny sample of this last night - maybe enough to fill a shot glass.

This chokecherry wine is tasting very good, I think - especially for a first attempt. It is like a mouthful of chokecherry, without the astringency. There seems to be just a hint of vanilla in the finish - I have no idea how that happened, but I like it.

It's not perfect, by any means. It seems to have a tiny bit too much acidity, and it might be slightly watered down, due to my last fiasco racking, described above. Also, it is certainly has some developing to do, which time in the bottle will achieve - but I think I'm on a good path, here. 

My plan is to let it continue to bulk age, then rack one more time before stabilizing and bottling. After that, I'll try to let it age for a few months, but will probably fail.


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## wineforfun (Jun 16, 2016)

Read through your thread and I think you will be just fine. Adding only a half cup of water throughout won't hurt the flavor much. I would also cut down on all the "samplings". 

You will definitely want to backsweeten to bring out more of the fruit flavor. For me, I usually add 1/2 cup(give or take) sugar per gallon for a semi-sweet fruit wine. Different fruits may take a little less or more, depending on your likes.

In the future, start with a little more than a gallon so when you do your initial racking from primary to secondary, you have extra, ie: a 375ml or 750ml bottle. This extra can be used for topping off after rackings, eliminating the need for water.


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 16, 2016)

Agreed, D.J.! 

Of course, next time, If topping is needed, I'll be able to do so with chokecherry wine, as well.

My samples really have been small, keeping in mind that I want to keep the fermenter filled up to the neck. In one of my earlier photos, the wine in the fermenter goes almost, but not quite to the brim. Racking off the lees and "sampling" (  ) have brought that down, but for the most part we're in good shape, I think. I never expected my first attempt to turn out as well as it seems to be going!


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## cintipam (Jun 16, 2016)

I believe you are officially hooked now. Welcome to the club.

Pam in cinti


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## Arne (Jun 17, 2016)

wineforfun said:


> Read through your thread and I think you will be just fine. Adding only a half cup of water throughout won't hurt the flavor much. I would also cut down on all the "samplings".
> 
> You will definitely want to backsweeten to bring out more of the fruit flavor. For me, I usually add 1/2 cup(give or take) sugar per gallon for a semi-sweet fruit wine. Different fruits may take a little less or more, depending on your likes.
> 
> In the future, start with a little more than a gallon so when you do your initial racking from primary to secondary, you have extra, ie: a 375ml or 750ml bottle. This extra can be used for topping off after rackings, eliminating the need for water.



Cut down on the sampling?? Why in the world would you make wine if you didn't sample as you go along. If you make plenty extra, you will have some for sampling, some for topping off, a bit for the angels and in my case some for those darn wine gremlins. At least they use the wine theif and don't tip the carboy over. We gotta get together and do a bit of the sampling one of these days, D.J.. Arne.


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## wineforfun (Jun 17, 2016)

Arne said:


> Cut down on the sampling?? Why in the world would you make wine if you didn't sample as you go along. If you make plenty extra, you will have some for sampling, some for topping off, a bit for the angels and in my case some for those darn wine gremlins. At least they use the wine theif and don't tip the carboy over. We gotta get together and do a bit of the sampling one of these days, D.J.. Arne.



haha
All excellent points Arne. Yes we do. Now that I am back from vacation, it is time to ramp up production again.


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## Arne (Jun 18, 2016)

wineforfun said:


> haha
> All excellent points Arne. Yes we do. Now that I am back from vacation, it is time to ramp up production again.



Thank you, thank you. Noticed you havn't been around much. Welcome back. Arne.


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## wineforfun (Jun 20, 2016)

Arne said:


> Thank you, thank you. Noticed you havn't been around much. Welcome back. Arne.



Eh, just checking in here and there. Not much to add.


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 23, 2016)

This weekend, I'll most likely rack my chokecherry wine over for the last time before bottling. I'm a little unclear on this step, since I've never done it before, so I have a few questions, if y'all don't mind -

Does anyone have a general, step-by-step "checklist" for this final stage of the wine-making? Should I be cold-crashing and/or stabilizing it now? Or wait a few weeks after this racking before doing so? 

The wine seems to have cleared up very nicely on its own, so I don't anticipate the need to add any finings or clearing agents. Should I add a campden tablet one more time before bottling?

I don't plan to back-sweeten, as this wine tastes simply beautiful on its own, even at this relatively young stage. There actually seems to be just a hint of vanilla in there, for reasons I cannot explain, and it is really nice. Has this happened with anyone else?

My dad's batch of wine which he bottled quite a while ago, tastes great when he opens it and pours a glass, but after about 30 minutes the flavor of the wine in the glass deteriorates quite a bit. Is this an oxidation problem? Would a campden tablet at bottling have prevented this, or is there another way to deal with it so that the same doesn't happen to mine?

Thanks for all feedback and advice -

Ron


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 23, 2016)

Update - I received a great reply from Yooper over at the HomeBrewTalk forum, which I will post here in order to add to the chronicle:



> There probably are checklists out there, but for me I generally cold stabilize for a month or so before bottling. It's not critical, but I do that before I rack to the bottling bucket so that more sediment doesn't drop out in the bottle in my cellar.
> 
> I use campden/sulfite at every other racking to help prevent oxidation, and add more at bottling.
> 
> It does sound like oxidation with your dad's wine. I'm not sure why it would happen in 30 minutes, though, unless it was already present and became worse with some sitting in the glass.


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## TasunkaWitko (Jun 24, 2016)

I received some additional information from Yooper, which I am posting here so that it is in my records:



> If you're not sweetening the wine, I would skip the sorbate. It does have a bit of a protective effect I guess, but I only would use it if I was adding additional fermentables to prevent renewed fermentation. It does impart a taste, although slight, and I prefer to not use it unless necessary.
> 
> I was thinking about wine decanting at dinner tonight. Sometimes we decant a big bold wine that may need a bit of time to breathe. It really opens up the wine, but if it's not needed it does detract from the wine. In this case, it sounds like [your dad's] wine was flawed already, but having it sit and interact with oxygen after the pour probably exacerbated it.



Based on this, I will skip the sorbate and go straight to bottling after cold-stabilizing for a few weeks.


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## Stressbaby (Jun 25, 2016)

TW,

I will offer my 2 cents here. I agree that you should skip the sorbate if not backsweetening, and you should probably hit it again with Kmeta before bottling. However, if the wine is really clear, you may not need the cold stabilization. The main purpose is to prevent wine diamonds later when the bottle is chilled. You won't have enough tartaric acid in this wine for that to be a problem. I have cold stabilized lots of country wines and those made with acid blend or citric acid never precipitate any crystals. Maybe a fine dusting of sediment, but I'm never really sure if that would have dropped out anyway. It won't hurt anything to cold stab it, but I wouldn't think that it is a critical step.


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## TasunkaWitko (Sep 15, 2017)

Well, my #2 son got into my first batch before it was ready, and to cover his tracks, he replaced a full half of it with water....

I thought of killing him, but decided not to; it's just too damn much hassle, although in the end I might have been able to plead temporary insanity. Instead, I started a second batch of wine on 3 October 2016, using a very slightly-modified recipe:



> Chokecherry Wine
> 
> 3 pounds chokecherries
> 2.5 pounds sugar
> ...



As I mentioned, there are a couple of small differences with this batch, compared to my previous batch. I never used any tannin with the first batch, so I tried it this time, for comparison. The amount of chokecherries and sugar is slightly higher this time, but not by much, simply because that's what I had. My goal was a fruit-forward, strong-ish wine.

This time, the boy stayed out of it, and that makes me happy. Over the months, I racked this off the lees once or twice, then put it away to bulk-age. For a month or so, I told myself to forget about it, and after a while, I did!

Somewhere in that time, I re-filled the air-lock a couple of times, and finally, a month or so ago, I put a 38-mm cap on the fermenter and put it in the refrigerator, hoping that it would pull down any vestigial sediment etc. Normally, one would add a fining agent, but I did not do that at this time, since it didn't seem to need it. There was just the tiniest bit of sediment on the bottom; but otherwise, the wine seemed wonderfully clear and had a beautiful colour.

Last night, I bottled this wine, and I am thinking that I really have something nice. The normal, "proper" procedure would be to add a crushed campden tablet (dissolved in a bit of warm water) and a half-teaspoon of sorbate. I did not do that this time, for my own reasons, but might do so in the future; therefore, I am putting down this procedure so that I won't forget. 

Anyway, proceeding with the bottling, I washed and sanitised all equipment, then got down to doing it. It was quite easy, thanks to my mini auto-siphon and bottling wand - in fact, it was even easier than bottling beer. One thing I was eager to try was this handy gadget, which turned out to be very easy to use and made corking a breeze:

http://a.co/9P7ZAVw 

The are currently unavailable at Amazon, it seems, but can be found here, also:

http://mastervintner.com/master-vintner-mini-corker/

I was expecting to get 4 bottles from the batch, plus a partial fifth bottle; however, I was happily surprised with 5 full bottles. I had just enough left over for a small sample, and it sure was good. The chokecherry came through very well, and I was quite happy to see that it still had the slight, zippy "spiciness" to that I referred to in my post above.

The bottles of chokecherry wine are currently sitting upright, in the dark, while the pressure equalizes and the corks settle in. In a few days, I will store my wine horizontally and leave it alone for a few weeks while the "bottle shock" wears off. I am guessing that when the time comes to sample it, I'll be quite pleased with it. I plan to see how this wine matures over the next year or so, and am hoping for really nice things.

For now, this second recipe that I made looks to be the one to use. I don't see any need for changing it, but will try to improve my methods and practices a bit in the future, including attempting to use some of the additives that can make a good wine even better. I have enough chokecherries in the freezer to start another batch of wine, and will get it started as soon as I can.


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## TasunkaWitko (Sep 15, 2017)

Stressbaby said:


> TW,
> 
> I will offer my 2 cents here. I agree that you should skip the sorbate if not backsweetening, and you should probably hit it again with Kmeta before bottling. However, if the wine is really clear, you may not need the cold stabilization. The main purpose is to prevent wine diamonds later when the bottle is chilled. You won't have enough tartaric acid in this wine for that to be a problem. I have cold stabilized lots of country wines and those made with acid blend or citric acid never precipitate any crystals. Maybe a fine dusting of sediment, but I'm never really sure if that would have dropped out anyway. It won't hurt anything to cold stab it, but I wouldn't think that it is a critical step.



Hi, SB - 

Thanks for this information; I keep going on and off the fence about sorbate etc., so it is good to have some real-life experience to draw upon. I'll see how this one ends up It's kind of funny because my dad made some about the first time I made my first batch. He literally broke all of the "rules," with no additives at all except one campden tablet that I convinced him to use at the beginning of the process, and no special treatment at all...just one racking and then bottling 2 weeks later; yet a year-and-a-half later, his wine tastes really, really good. Sometimes I think we fuss too much over these projects, and should just make the wine - apparently, it will take care of itself, most times....


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## TasunkaWitko (Oct 24, 2017)

Here is the label that I created for this wine:


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## ricardo maya (Nov 3, 2022)

TasunkaWitko said:


> Chokecherry Wine - My First Attempt
> 
> Those of us who live in “Chokecherry Country” know that we have a great thing going with these wonderful little spheres of purplish-black love, known scientifically as _Prunus virginiana_. Chokecherries are an integral part of the culture and the people who live with them, from the Native American tribes who gathered and used them hundreds (and probably thousands) of years ago, to the pioneers and settlers who arrived to tame the land and discovered an irresistible treat waiting for them when they arrived.
> 
> ...


I find this amazing !


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