# mead and hops and a question more suited for brewers...



## BernardSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

I am making a mead with hops (I suppose technicaly this is a melomel) and while it still has a while to go I tasted it last night and was really pleasantly surprised at how it tasted. I used a recipe for determining the length of boil time for each of the varieties of hops I used - and that worked out fine, but I much prefer (MUCH prefer) to understand principles rather than follow recipes. So my question: does anyone on this forum understand how to figure out how long to boil any variety of hop to produce a specific level of bitterness. Is there some kind of formula or algorithm for determining this if you know the alpha acidity of a hop?


----------



## botigol (Dec 18, 2013)

I pulled the following from another site and I am pretty sure comes from Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels:

IBU = Woz * U% * A% * 7489 / Vgal / Cgrav

where Woz is the weight of the hops in ounces, U% is the utilization as a decimal, A% is the alpha acids as a decimal, V gal is the volume of wort when you pitch the hops, and Cgrav is the correction for gravities over 1.050

Cgrav = 1 + [(Gboil - 1.050) / 0.2]

where Gboil is the SG of the boiling wort.

The utlilization is found using this table:
Boil Time (min)...........whole(%)................pellet(%)
dry hop..........................0.................... ..........0
0 - 9...............................5................. .............6
10 - 19..........................12.................... ........15
20 - 29..........................15.................... ........19
30 - 44..........................19.................... ........24
45 - 59..........................22.................... ........27
60 - 74..........................24.................... ........30
75 +..............................27................. ...........34

There are also a number of online calculators that will do the math for you. I have been using Brewer's Friend, but haven't yet taken the time to check the results that I have received.


----------



## botigol (Dec 18, 2013)

A secondary consideration to your question would be the hop flavor and aroma that will be derived based on the boil time used. You begin to lose a lot of the aromas and flavors once the boil time exceeds 30 mins, leaving just the bitterness. So if you are only looking for the bitterness, a longer boil using a hop variety with lower alpha acid level would be preferable as compared to a higher AA% hop that would require a shorter boil to achieve the same IBU, but provide hop character (aroma, flavor).


----------



## BernardSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

botigol said:


> A secondary consideration to your question would be the hop flavor and aroma that will be derived based on the boil time used. You begin to lose a lot of the aromas and flavors once the boil time exceeds 30 mins, leaving just the bitterness. So if you are only looking for the bitterness, a longer boil using a hop variety with lower alpha acid level would be preferable as compared to a higher AA% hop that would require a shorter boil to achieve the same IBU, but provide hop character (aroma, flavor).



Thanks Botigol. This and teh previous post were VERY helpful. Thank you.


----------



## botigol (Dec 18, 2013)

You're welcome Bernard!

On a tangent, I am wondering what to call your batch. You mentioned melomel, but that is supposed to be fruit and/or fruit juice added to honey. Metheglin was the first thing that came to mind, but it seems to be particular to spices, and hops are flowers. Rhodomel is made with flowers, but is particular to roses. GotMead.com reads, "T'ej is honey, water and hops." However, T'ej is a specific drink. Obviously not important, but I'm at a loss.


----------



## mmadmikes1 (Dec 18, 2013)

I dry hop my mead without a boil and it turned out great. Hops set on keg with mead for 3 months


----------



## BernardSmith (Dec 18, 2013)

botigol said:


> You're welcome Bernard!
> 
> On a tangent, I am wondering what to call your batch. You mentioned melomel, but that is supposed to be fruit and/or fruit juice added to honey. Metheglin was the first thing that came to mind, but it seems to be particular to spices, and hops are flowers. Rhodomel is made with flowers, but is particular to roses. GotMead.com reads, "T'ej is honey, water and hops." However, T'ej is a specific drink. Obviously not important, but I'm at a loss.



My error. Thanks, Botigol. Metheglin was what I meant. I believe that mazers refer to hopped mead as a metheglin and I think that the word "metheglin" may be a cognate of medicine - Just what the doctor ordered...


----------



## botigol (Dec 19, 2013)

Thanks for verifying that Bernard...like I said, I wasn't so sure. Hmmm, best tasting medicine that I ever had! Although some of the cough syrups from my youth may have been more potent.

Mike, with which hops and quantities have you had the best success dry hopping? Just for clarification to others reading; dry hopping produces 0 IBUs, just aroma and flavor.


----------



## seth8530 (Dec 19, 2013)

I was also gonna suggest something about dryhopping. I am not sure how much you would want to use, but a think citrahops might be an interesting hop to dryhop your mead with.


----------



## BernardSmith (Dec 20, 2013)

Tried to post this twice but for some reason the post was not delivered. Anyway... The recipe I used included both using the bittering properties of hops (and so boiling them) - and made use of Centennial, Cascade and Citra, and the aroma property - additional Cascade. I followed the recipe because I did not understand the principles of hop usage, but the recipe called for various boiling times for specific hops (specific alphas, and flavors) and to use the hopped water as the water to dilute the honey. After most of the active fermentation was over (and so the mead was racked to a sealed carboy, the recipe then called for the addition of dry hops for two weeks to be followed by another racking to remove those hops. The mead has been aging quietly for a couple of months and is not yet nearly as clear as a clover mead I started at about the same time. I use benotonite in the primary to help with clearing but I am not sure how the negative ions in bentonite act with the vegetable particles from the hops. 
I find the idea of using hops in mead really very exciting as it seems to open up a whole new world of possibilities. At the same time I find myself making experimental batches of hard cider and am about to see what the addition of hops might do for my cider.


----------



## Bob1016 (Dec 25, 2013)

I'll input on the dryhop discussion, as I've never boiled hops wit must (on the few occasions I decide to boil mead must). I like English varieties (goldings, and fuggles) as they're aged aroma is more pleasant than American varieties. I'd imagine Saaz would be good too. 
1g/L is a nice amount, anything from 0.25-1.5g/L would do depending on what you want. 
Next time you try this, never boil citra! It's a waste of a wonderfully aromatic hop. And if using American/NZ style aroma hops, you might want to add right before bottling and give them 5-10 days, that way the aroma is still fresh when you open a bottle. 
Methaglyn -> meddaglyn (welsh) -> medecine (English) is my understanding. 
Technically it could be a braggot or methaglyn (braggots don't necessitate malt according to original definitions).


----------



## BernardSmith (Dec 25, 2013)

Bob1016 said:


> I'll input on the dryhop discussion, as I've never boiled hops wit must (on the few occasions I decide to boil mead must). I like English varieties (goldings, and fuggles) as they're aged aroma is more pleasant than American varieties. I'd imagine Saaz would be good too.
> 1g/L is a nice amount, anything from 0.25-1.5g/L would do depending on what you want.
> Next time you try this, never boil citra! It's a waste of a wonderfully aromatic hop. And if using American/NZ style aroma hops, you might want to add right before bottling and give them 5-10 days, that way the aroma is still fresh when you open a bottle.
> Methaglyn -> meddaglyn (welsh) -> medecine (English) is my understanding.
> Technically it could be a braggot or methaglyn (braggots don't necessitate malt according to original definitions).



Hi Bob, Your point about dry hopping aromatic hops is well taken but I have boiled hops in the water that I will use to dilute the honey rather than the must itself (the diluted honey).


----------

