# Pear Wine No Fermentation



## DrtDoctor (Nov 18, 2008)

Started a pear wine the other day. It was a six gallon batch. added the pears and raisins as well as the kmeta and ascorbic acid and some tannin and acid blend. 

Set the top plastic lid on the primary loose. Waited 12 hours and stirred some and added the pectic enzyme. 

Waited a couple hours and made a yeast starter using a cup of the pear juice, sugar and yeast nutrient. All was well. the yeast starter took right off and was very active. 24 hours after kmeta was added I added the active yeast starter with some yeast energizer and yeast nutrient. Temperature is good. SG was 1.080. 12 hours later, nothing. 

I've done it this way before but never with a six gallon batch, only with smaller batches. I'm wondering if I didn't let the kmeta air sufficiently with the loose plastic lid?

Any suggestions?

Thanks, 

DrtDoctor


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## Aaronh (Nov 18, 2008)

Do you know what your ph lvlis? 
<DIV id=ms__id67>Did you add nutient to just the starter or the whole must?
<DIV id=ms__id68>What yeast did you use?
<DIV id=ms__id11>How much K-meta? only a 1/4 tsp for 5-6 gallons?
<DIV id=ms__id69>Being that you left your lid on unsealed im thinken K-meta didnt dispearse to quickly with only a 12 hour window. Its better to use a towl becouse the whole serfice can breath.
<DIV id=ms__id70>You can try stir the crap out of it to get the S02 to release. When i mean the crap out of it i mean make it splash so oxygen gets in there.You might need a more reziliant ,higher performing yeast like EC-1118 which is pretty much the secret weapon for stuck fermentations half way threw. Stuck fermentations from the get go are a bit harder to diagnose. The culprit is ussaly eather To much k-meta , acid lvl is too high, or not enough nutrients. 
<DIV id=ms__id71>
<DIV id=ms__id72>I had a similar problem with my crabapple last month.After 6 days and two failed pitches I ended up maken a small starter and kept adding the must untill I had a 4 gallon starter then put it in the remaining 3. 
<DIV id=ms__id81>http://www.finevinewines.com//Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6662
<DIV id=ms__id82>this link is a short story of the ordeal. being that you are only a couple days in the ordeal, you may not have to go threw the same measures i did. I am shure someone else will give you a better point in the right direction soon.*Edited by: Aaronh *


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## grapeman (Nov 19, 2008)

12 to 24 hours or even two days is not enough time to worry about. It will get going good soon. Take a deep breath and hold, now breathe. Give it another day or so and then all should be good.


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 19, 2008)

Aaronh,

-Do you know what your ph lvlis?

No didn't test it. Should I test acidity level? I often do that. I usually don't test pH.

<div id="ms__id67">-Did you add nutient to just the starter or the whole must?

Yes added both yeast nutrient and yest energizer to Must and starter


<div id="ms__id68">-What yeast did you use?

Red Star Pastuer Champagne


<div id="ms__id11">-How much K-meta? only a 1/4 tsp for 5-6 gallons?

No 5 campden tablets for 6 gallons.


<div id="ms__id69">-Being that you left your lid on unsealed I'm thinkin
K-meta didn't disperse to quickly with only a 12 hour window. Its
better to use a towlel because the whole surface can breath.

I've taken off the lid and put Muslin over it. I'll leave that go for 24 hours, stirring occasionally and then add another batch of Yeast starter.

DrtDoctor


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## smokegrub (Nov 19, 2008)

Patience. It will start.


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## Wade E (Nov 19, 2008)

I agree that it most likely will takle a little more time. Listen in for that sizzling noise!


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 19, 2008)

Still as still can be 36 hours after I pitched an active starter. I think I'll start a new starter tonight and if there is no activity by tomorrow morning 24 hours after covering with muslin I'll pitch the new starter.


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## Wade E (Nov 19, 2008)

Still cant hear any fizzing at all?


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 19, 2008)

Nothing. And there is a light at just the right angle so i can see the surface of the must very clearly and it is like a sheet of glass. Very still, no bubbles.


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## Waldo (Nov 20, 2008)

What is the SG of your must? A high SG can cause problems at times.


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 20, 2008)

Waldo it's only 1.082. Currently I've started another starter and am slowly adding to it. The starter is made from the must and there is no problem...active fermentation. I'm up to a quart of starter. I'm thinking of adding another quart now. I figure once I get up to a gallon I'll add it to the other 5 gallons.


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 21, 2008)

Ok, had a quart of active must starter going. Added another quart to it and it stopped. 9 hours now and it stopped. I'm going to work but when I get home I'm going to test the acidity to see if something is wrong. I'm going to try a different yeast.


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 21, 2008)

Ok tested the acidity. It's only .386. I added about 1.5 grams of acid blend per gallon (9 g). I also added some more yeast energizer. Trying to decide whether to just pitch dry yeast or go through another starter. What I don't understand is that if I take some of the must out, add a bit of yeast nutrient and yeast energizer and some sugar and a bit of water, fermentation takes right off? Add small amounts of must and it keeps going. Why did it stop when I doubled the amount from one quart to two? SG is still 1.082.


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## Wade E (Nov 21, 2008)

Im stabbing in the dark here now but what was the source of these pears, if canned does it say sorbate or benzoate on the can? Are you sure you only added 1/4 *tsp* and not *tbls? What is the SG now. *I may just be being anal but noticed that you started with an SG of 1.080 and now you say it is 1.082. Just trying to figure this out.


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions. Pretty confident on the tsp vs. tbls. It's been almost a week now. The pears were fresh. Very ripe. We made a small batch of pear mead that just won't stop fermenting. Also added raisons to this wine. My wife skinned the pears so the skins were not in the must. The 1.08 vs. 1.082 is just how careful I bother to read the hydrometer. I've adjusted acidity. Added some yeast energizer and pitched some yeast dry. I'm thinking of making another starter as well and doing the slow starter thing. 

I feel like a bunch of work is about to go down the drain. Thanks for your help.

Drtdoctor


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## Wade E (Nov 22, 2008)

The only thing that really makes sense at this point is that somehow it got over sulfited somehow and it does happen not saying you did it. Maybe someone interrupted you during starting this batch or something or maybe this is just the most stubborn batch we have ever seen. I would try stirring the snot out of it as maybe the sulfite you put in there just hasnt dissipated enough. Try pouring it from bucket to bucket harshly a few times and then introducing the new yeast.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 22, 2008)

Question....Did the raisins have any oil on them????





Waldo had an issue with a film of oil on the top of the fermenter that hindered fermentation.


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 22, 2008)

I read somewhere else about if there are dead yeast that the new yeast might not start. That they somehow sense the dead yeast. So I think I might rack the must and leave all old yeast behind. I'll dump it from bucket to bucket. Tomorrow.

What doesn't make sense is that I can make a starter with this must and it starts right up? That's the part that really confuses me. I made a starter with a weak yeast and no more nutrient or energizer since I'm pretty sure the must has plenty now. This yeast started as well. Just added a second cup of must and it is still fermenting. Last time I got it up to a quart and when I added the second quart it stopped. 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and concern. My wife tells me to quit worrying since she did most of the work  and she's not worried. If it is over sulfated at least no bad bugs have started. The raisin box said they have SO2 in them as a preservative but it's been a week so I can't imagine that that is still a problem. I went to a supply store today and bought a bunch of yeast. A few that take a high sulfate level. I'll use one of those. 

Wish me luck!


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## Wade E (Nov 22, 2008)

The raisins are probably the problem. leave them out and splash rack this wine and rack off the dead yeast cells even though I dont think that that has anything to do with it as many here have made starters and got going on stuck fermentations. Get those raisins out of there!


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 23, 2008)

No oil on the raisins. I'm in the process of dumping the must from primary to primary. Probably at 15 pours thus far. Taking a break. I'll do up to 30. The pears and the raisins are in a nylon bag. Pulled it out and letting it get air. 

I'm thinking of sorting through the bag and pulling all of the raisins out. Or, trying to start the must without the fruit bag. Question is, what to do with the fruit while I wait? Maybe freeze it?


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## Wade E (Nov 23, 2008)

I would get rid of the raisins all together. Keep the fruit in some juice and add some ascorbic acid if you have any. It is a anti-oxidant but will not hinder fermentation at all. It will prevent your fruit and must from turning brown from 02 exposure.


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## grapeman (Nov 23, 2008)

This sure has turned out to be a problematic one for you. Not sure how, but you must have gotten a really high dose of S02 in it somehow from some source. The swapping buckets should bring down the levels. If you happened to have one, an S02 test would let you know what levels you have. The easiest to use would be the Accuvin test vials.


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks guys. I don't have an SO2 tester but after this I may may get one. What raisin brand does everyone else use? This was the popular brand with the woman on the front, can't think of the name right now but probably the most popular brand in the country. I decided to leave the raisins in for one more try. I will remove them tomorrow if it doesn't start. I dry pitched two packages of yeast (tired of making starters) One was the Montrachet from Red Star (says it has a high tolerance to SO2) the other was K1-V1116 from Lavlin the so called killer yeast. 

This has been going on so long I'm over the disappointment now. Must be the preservative in the raisins. Thinking about it, raisins keep a long time without refrigeration. I know they are dried but still? 

Funny thing if I pick through the bag of fruit tomorrow. The pectic enzyme has broken down the pears to almost nothing. The raisins are very intact. Won't be much left in the bag. 

Can't say I'm any kind of experienced expert in country wines but I've never had a stuck fermentation prior to this one. Live and learn.

Drtdocter


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## Wade E (Nov 23, 2008)

Yes, all raisins are sulfited and I just read that Sunmaid also contains vegetable oil and partially hydrogenated cottonseed oil. Put these things together and it is a recipe for disaster How much raisins did you put in this batch?


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 23, 2008)

I just looked on my box of Sunmaid Golden Raisins and the bag of dark raisins....On the box of golden raisins it lists Sulfur Dioxide as a preservative.

It didn't list oil on either package, but they always feel oily....Think it keeps them from sticking together......It didn't list any grams of fat.

I looked at a bag of large red Flame Raisins once and I think that package listed oil.

I think when Waldo has his oil problem he had a slick of oil on the surface that was starving the yeast for air....think he drained his primary from the bottom spigot and left the oil in the bucket that way.

With all the pouring you've done I am sure you have rinsed whatever the problem was off of the fruit and everything should be mixed up now....

This is a really interesting batch....will anxiously awaiting the outcome.....

Hope it starts fermenting for you and we can all learn from this.


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## smokegrub (Nov 25, 2008)

This is really interesting because I have used raisins on several occasions with no ill effects. I always chop them in a food processor and place then in a small straining bag for easy removal. I have also done a pear wine and it fermented readily. Weird.

When I have a wine that is tough to get started I add one well-mashed banana to the must. The banana floats and the yeast really get after it. My thinking is that the banana provides a sort of continuing starter. So far it has worked well and the small amount of banana doesn't affect the final taste of the wine at all.

For what its worth, my first pear wine is unimpressive after a year. I am going to try one more and, if it turns out the same, it will be my final pear.*Edited by: Smokegrub *


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## Aaronh (Nov 25, 2008)

I read somewhere else on here about the banana trick. Thats pretty neat. 
<DIV id=ms__id174>This kind of a shot in the dark but... did you get these pears from the store? and if so, did you wash them off before hand? 
<DIV id=ms__id175> Back in collegeI tookhealth and wellness and learned thatallot ofFruits bought from the store are coated pretty good with pesticides and fertilizer. Just rinsing off fruit is not enough and soap should be used with scrubbing.In fact some folks don't even eat the skin off commercial fruits.
<DIV id=ms__id176>This sounds like a pretty stubborn situation you got going here





<DIV id=ms__id178>
<DIV id=ms__id177>Wade I think the SG difference he had might be due to temperature change. 60 degrees Fis what a normal reading should be taken at.Sg changes about 2 degrees for every 5 degree temperature change. I use The wine calculator onwinecalc.com to make shure I'm on target because I'm usually in the 70 degree area.*Edited by: Aaronh *


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 25, 2008)

Update. You can read what I did in a previous post. Aerated with back and forth pouring between primaries. Yes I put the bag containing the raisins back in, I'm stubborn what can I say. 

48 hours later, nothing. I would have done this last night but didn't have time. Tonight, I pulled the bag and removed the raisins. Aerated again and added two packages of Lalvin K1-V1116 yeast as a killer yeast because I can't believe something isn't growing in there. 

The must looks a bit darker but still tastes ok. Smells funny but I think it's all the yeast.

The Sunmaid golden raisins listed SO2 as a preservative but didn't list oil etc. Really nothing else. 

After I pitched the yeast I read about the banana so I put one in there. 

I read that you typically chop the raisins. How finely? I didn't chope them at all. How finely do you chop the pears. I had most chunks of pears about 3/4 in by 3/4 in. with some smaller. 

Here is the recipe I used from Jack Keller's site although only used about 2/3 the recommended quantity of raisins. The recipe is for a one gallon batch, I made six gallons. 

<ul>[*]*4-6 lbs ripe pears
*[*]*1/2 lb chopped or minced white or golden raisins (or sultanas)
*[*]*1-3/4 lb finely granulated sugar
*[*]*3-1/4 quarts water (more or less, depending on amount of fruit used)
*[*]*1-1/2 tsp acid blend 
*[*]*1/2 tsp pectic enzyme 
*[*]*1/8 tsp grape tannin 
*[*]*1 crushed Campden tablet 
*[*]*1 tsp yeast nutrient 
*[*]*1 packet Champagne yeast 

*[/list]I don't know but this is probably my last try with this one. Need to free up the primary and start something that works and put this in the past.

thanks for all your help!!

Drt Doctor

ps. don't believe all that stuff about pesticides and fertilizer on fruit grown in the US. I'm in the agriculture field and most fertilizer is put on the ground not on the fruit unless it's calcium and we've all taken Tums. Pesticide residues must be at levels as low as parts per billion when tested, although the acceptable level is different for each product. Our food supply is very safe and in no way would inhibit yeast unless a sulfite is applied to processed fruit to prevent spoilage.


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## Waldo (Nov 26, 2008)

If you have any avaliable you might try adding some yeast energizer to it


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## grapeman (Nov 26, 2008)

Hey Drt Doctor;
I have a dumb question for you here. Have you checked the SG lately? Is it possible that it had a real silent fementation and the alcohol level in it is keeping the yeast from beginning? I know this is a stretch, but it is very unusual for the yeast to die off from a yeast starter.


And yes, I agree with you on the fertilizer and pesticides. The drinking water usually has higher levels of those things in it than allowable levels on food products.


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## Scott (Nov 26, 2008)

DD,
That is the same receipe I used and all went well, but the onlydifference was I added 2 cans of white grape concentate.For the raisins I tried to chop but maybe only got a portion of them cut in half at the best, sticky little buggers. The pears were chunked the same size too.


It was not a very active ferm, just a very little sizzle.


Good Luck


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## grapeman (Nov 26, 2008)

Scott said:


> DD,
> It was not a very active ferm, just a very little sizzle.
> 
> 
> Good Luck




That is my thinking in asking for the current SG of the batch. Sometimes there is so little visible activity that you think it isn't doing anything and it ends up finishing without you ever thinking it began. Verification with the hydrometer will tell easily.


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## stormbringer (Nov 26, 2008)

This thread interest me because I'm presently making a 6 gallon batch of pear wine with what appears to be a slow starting fermentation. I use pear juice extracted from a steam-juicer, so the question of SO2 is discounted. (All equipment is thoroughly rinsed after sanitation) And all of my juices are pasteurized during the canning process to preserve it for later on. 

My starting S.G. was 1.106. The yeast is one packet of EC 1118. Among other ingredients, there is 6 tsp. of yeast nutrient in addition to about 24 cups of sugar.

The fermentation was very slow to start. Tomorrow it will have been in the primary for a week. But the fermentation gradually started working. This morning the batch has what appears to be about a half inch head of foam on the surface and the audible "snap, crackle, and pop" of fermentation is present. I expect the usual vigorous fermentation to be present in a couple of days. The top of the primary is covered with a thin dish towel only.

I've noticed other country wines tend to display the same sort of slow starting fermentation. Don't know why but maybe I'm trying to compare this part of the process to the kit wines I've made. 

For what ever reason, the slow starting fermentation seems to be the norm with my country wines. So far they have all turned out excellent. I have two bottles of pear, from this same recipe, waiting for April and the Peoples Choice tasting at Winestock.

I'd give the pear wine a little longer to start fermentation. You may be pleasantly surprised with the results. 


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 26, 2008)

The SG hasn't moved. Waldo there is PLENTY of yeast energizer in there. Don't know what is up but didn't seem to be fermenting this morning before I left for work.


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## grapeman (Nov 26, 2008)

Man this is a tough one! It may just be time to write it off and move onto something else. It would have been nice to finish it up, but it is just not wanting to ferment for whatever reason. If you were really determined, I would verify the current S02 , pH, brix(SG) and anything else you can think of. If everything is normal parameters, then make another starter and keep adding to it in doubles until you had the whole batch going. Example- make a starter in a cup of must, when active add 2 cups- when active add a quart and so on.


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## Wade E (Nov 26, 2008)

Its not the loss of the wine that really bugs us although it really sucks but not knowing what the



is wrong with this batch!!!!!!!My wine flag is flying 1/2 staff!




*Edited by: wade *


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## Waldo (Nov 26, 2008)

DrtDoctor said:


> The SG hasn't moved. Waldo there is PLENTY of yeast energizer in there. Don't know what is up but didn't seem to be fermenting this morning before I left for work.




OK..didn't see the Energizer as part of your recipe.


Don't give up on it yet. I would do as appleman said, try another starter and keep adding to it


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 27, 2008)

Yeah I've tried the starter and adding to it slowly, I think three times. Each time, using the must it started without problem. I'd add a cup and then two and got it up to a quart once and then I added another quart and it stopped. 

Twice I had a starter going with two cups of must but when I added another cup it stopped??? That's why I got tired of doing starters and just started pitching dry yeast.


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## smikes (Nov 27, 2008)

Before you dump it, I would get some products to test for your acid, pH and so2. If I were you , not knowing what happend would haunt me, and you knows What happens when one is haunted by dead spirits around Christmas......




Oh, Happy Turkey day!


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 29, 2008)

the only thing I didn't test wast he SO2. It's smelling a little funky now and so I'm going to dump it later today and start a kit. I just need to see something bubbling. I think after I rack the kit to a secondary I'll make a Welch's Grape Juice concentrate batch. 

Thanks much everyone, I'm just going to try to forget this one. Some Chianti should help!


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## Wade E (Nov 29, 2008)

Too bad we couldnt figure this out!


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## DrtDoctor (Nov 29, 2008)

Pitched the yeast dry on the Brunello wine expert limited about 4 this afternoon and it's already bubbling. Looking at temperature, I have one more thing to add to this pear must problem. I had a brew belt on it and it got up to about 74F. This didn't seem too high but maybe if it was finicky? The basement is generally cold.


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## Wade E (Nov 29, 2008)

74* is a good temp and surely not the problem, that is well within any realm of any yeast.


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