# Apple Wine Question



## Dejay (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm not a totally new at this wine making game, but would like to know if
anyone has made apple wine using brown sugar. I can't find any recipes on 
it, and not real sure if it can be done.


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## jbullard1 (Jan 11, 2009)

I am making a 1 gallon test batch using light brown sugar.
It is on the second racking now and is clearing to a dark amber
I also added a cinnamon stick and nutmeg in the primary and left it in during the secondary
So far it is good


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## shoes (Jan 11, 2009)

lots of people use brown sugar for apple wine. it changes the taste just a little bit. i personally dont care for it, as i dont want to mask the nice apple taste, which i think it does. give it a try, you might like it. homebrewing is ALL about expermenting!


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## Wade E (Jan 11, 2009)

I made Spiced Apple wine using that brown sugar, cinnamon, and mulling spices and it came out great. I used fresh cider for this batch.


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## Luc (Jan 12, 2009)

Be carefull as some brown sugar over here (in the Netherlands) contains sulphite.

So this might stun fermentation.

Luc


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## arcticsid (Jan 12, 2009)

Luc, gonna try to find my way to town tommorrow and get some apple cider with pupl in the jar(plus I get a 1 gallon carboy out of it!). Would there be any special conciderations between cider with pupl, or not pupl. One of the very first homemade wines I ever seen as one where my dad took "pulp cider" added yeast, sugar and two weeks later we had something going(drinking), obviously, I have gone beyond hooch. But for what it's worth, his wine wasn't to bad, got us through. Any suggestions? I am not opposed to a heavy body wine.
Thanks Alaways
Troy


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## arcticsid (Jan 12, 2009)

Sounds great Wade, but sounds like "mulled" wine, is this what is refered to? Yikes give me a nice wine and a snifter of Berentzen, than we can talk!!! I am sure looking forward to continuing this addictive hobby with all of you.!!!! (ps, keep your cinamon stick out of my beer)HeeHeeHeeHee
Troy
(Ps, will this apple cider with pulp, will the pulp settle along with the rest of the lees?)


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## Luc (Jan 12, 2009)

arcticsid

I have several batches of apple-wine going at this moment (about 9) and I did some experiments with them.
So I made batches with juice and one batch which pulp fermented.

All of them are clearing nicely at this moment except the one which was pulp fermented.

So that might be an issue.

Next issue is that generally it is concerned that apples should not be
pulp fermented as the pulp will form methyl alcohol which of course is something you will want to avoid.
This is a longtime run story on Dutch boards and forums but has never actually scientiffically been confirmed as far as I know.
Now a lot of people are still doing pulp fermentation on apples so the issue of methyl alcohol is probably way exaggerated. Maybe the danger occurs when you are distilling the juice and it might not be an issue with winemaking.
Nevertheless I would be carefull. 

Clear juice is probably the best way to go.

Luc


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## Dejay (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks to all for all the info. So can I assume all other other ingredients will be the same as ones used in an apple wine recipe for the exception of the sugar?


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## Luc (Jan 13, 2009)

Dejay,

Brown sugar has other ingredients mixed in as normal white sugar.
An example is molasses.

So I will perform some tests with mu hydrometer and refractometer to investigate wether one sort impart more or less sugar as the other one.

I will get back to you with the info as soon as possible.

You can do some tests yourself.
Like dissolving 100 gram white sugar in a liter and measure the SG and do the same with brown sugar.

For example I know that honey is 80% sugar.
So brown sugar might also have a lower actual quantity of pure sugar
in it.

Luc


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## Dejay (Jan 13, 2009)

Luc

Thanks for the info. I think if I add slow and check the SG as I go, When I get
to 1.090 I should be good to go.


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## moose-1110 (Jan 15, 2009)

luc

I just transferred a "irish rice wine" into the secondary. The recipe was an old one, so I thought I would try it. Some of the ingredients it called for I understood, but others I didn't, like adding 2 pounds of brown sugar with the white sugar. I was wondering what the brown sugar would do for the wine? also what does the potatoe do?

the recipe is as follows(with out any changes that i did)
2 lbs white sugar
2 lbs brown sugar
2 lbs seedless raisins
2 lbs dry rice
1 large yeast cake (I told you this was an old recipe)
1 gallon warm water
2 oranges
2 lemons
2 apples
2 potatoes


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## WaWa (Oct 20, 2009)

Luc said:


> arcticsid
> 
> I have several batches of apple-wine going at this moment (about 9) and I did some experiments with them.
> So I made batches with juice and one batch which pulp fermented.
> ...



Hi Luc,
Was wondering if you could clear something up for me...
I was told methyl alcohol is produced from 'wood' product i.e., pips, stems etc, hence why we should be careful not to let pips and stones etc in the must. AND ethyl alcohol is from flesh and juice and is more desirable. apparently, you know if methyl alcohol is present coz ya get one hell of a hangover!!!
thanks


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## Luc (Oct 20, 2009)

Methyl alcohol is indeed called wood-alcohol.
It is formed from the solid structures in fruit. 
Now every wine will have a certain amount of methyl alcohol in it.
It just gets dangerous when the wine is distilled and the methylalcohol
is not disregarded.

In wine there is just a small amount of methyl so it
is not harmfull. 

Now the pits is something entirely different.
Pits when crushed and fermented may cause bitterness in
a wine. But that's just bitterness.
Worse is that they may form cyanide.
That is why crushing seeds and pits and stones always
best is avoided.
Again amounts in a wine will be minimal but these
poisons are not removed from your body and will
accumulate until a leathel amount is reached.
Again nothing to worry about when making normal wines.
But when for example making wines from peaches or plums
make sure the stones are not crushed.

The jury is still out on the headache.
It surely is not the suphite. Most believe it are the histamines
that cause headache.
Heavily drinking will also cause headaches 

Luc


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## WaWa (Oct 20, 2009)

ok, thanks for that


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

*Still not sure....*

So what's the bottom line on apple wine made from crushed/pulped fruit (no seeds)? Is that a problem? 
Getting juice out of my apples right now is worse than trying to get something out of the Government. My plan was to pulp the apples in my grinder, and ferment the pulp in my primary. Bad idea?


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## Tom (Dec 16, 2009)

bad idea
Slice and core, freeze for 2-3 days, put apples in a straining bag and thaw add water AND pectic enzyme. This will break down the cells in the apples. wait 24 hours and add meta and sugar to 1.085 wait 24 hours add yeast


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

Tom said:


> bad idea
> Slice and core, freeze for 2-3 days, put apples in a straining bag and thaw add water AND pectic enzyme. This will break down the cells in the apples. wait 24 hours and add meta and sugar to 1.085 wait 24 hours add yeast


Been there, done that. I sent the t-shirt back. I tried a 5# test, due to lack of freezer space. The only difference from your method was that I left them at zero degrees for only 24 hours. I also did a 10# test batch outside in 20 degree weather for 2 days. When all was said and done, the apples thawed out ready to eat. 70% of them were still crunchy to bite into. :<
My cider was done with ground apples and squeezed. I don't have a press. It was a PITA, and I only got about 75% of the juice sources tell me I should have.
So...back to your first line, please. Why is it a bad idea to ferment the pulp/grind?


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## Tom (Dec 16, 2009)

It will be a bear to clear. I have used puree and juice from a juicer w/ pulp. Both had alot of sediment. lost over 1 gallon in racking. I hope you are making more than ONE gallon.. 6gal may get you 5 gallon tops.


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

Tom said:


> It will be a bear to clear. I have used puree and juice from a juicer w/ pulp. Both had alot of sediment. lost over 1 gallon in racking. I hope you are making more than ONE gallon.. 6gal may get you 5 gallon tops.


Yeah, I got a preview of the loss with my cider. I would never use a puree. I tried that with the plum wine, and ended up with perfect jelly pulp, but it was totally homogeneous! Haha! My options are limited by my equipment. Even the apple grind I used for the cider, drained and squeezed, created a cloudy cider that will take months to clear.
It would be simple to go buy the apple juice, but I have 75-100 pounds of apples I picked that aren't going to make it through the winter. Anybody interested in making 7,352 jars of jelly?


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

Tom said:


> bad idea
> Slice and core, freeze for 2-3 days, put apples in a straining bag and thaw add water AND pectic enzyme.


Okay, let's go back to this (sorry to be such a pest) for a minute. Are you saying to leave the thawed apples in the bag in the primary, without any pressing?


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## Tom (Dec 16, 2009)

YES!
Let the pectic enzyme do its thing. Trust me Some have called me the king of fresh fruit wine making.

BTW if doing 6 gallons you will need to split it between 2 fermenting buckets. I would use 35 # for 6 gallons and add a f-pac later and back sweeten


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

Tom said:


> YES!
> Let the pectic enzyme do its thing. Trust me Some have called me the king of fresh fruit wine making.


Okay! Well, I missed one window. It's been about +6F outside for a week, but now we're having a heat wave up around 35F. I guess I'll go dig a hole in a snowbank and let 'em sit for 3-4 days. If my chicken's water freezes over night, I guess the apples will. Now...what to use for a bag...


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## Tom (Dec 16, 2009)

Go to a GOOD paint store or home center. Look for 5 gallon PAINT strainer bag. USE IT.. simple ..


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

Tom said:


> Go to a GOOD paint store or home center. Look for 5 gallon PAINT strainer bag. USE IT.. simple ..


Yet another BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious)! Thanks.

(Let's see...GOOD...PAINT...USE IT. Yep, got it! )


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## Tom (Dec 16, 2009)

After all this I hope U have enough Pectic Enzyme and Sugar and YEAST.. LOL!


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

Tom said:


> After all this I hope U have enough Pectic Enzyme and Sugar and YEAST.. LOL!



I'm only going to be doing a 3 gallon batch, and I just got fresh pec enzyme from George. Also some citric acid. My local health food store happened to have some Premier Cuvee yeast, so 10# of sugar and I'm good to go!


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## Tom (Dec 16, 2009)

You will need Acid Blend to increase acid. Do you have a TA test kit? If not you need one if doing anything other than kits


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 16, 2009)

Tom said:


> You will need Acid Blend to increase acid. Do you have a TA test kit? If not you need one if doing anything other than kits


You just HAD to p** on my parade, didn't ya?


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> bad idea
> Slice and core, freeze for 2-3 days, put apples in a straining bag and thaw add water AND pectic enzyme. This will break down the cells in the apples. wait 24 hours and add meta and sugar to 1.085 wait 24 hours add yeast





Old Philosopher said:


> Okay, let's go back to this (sorry to be such a pest) for a minute. Are you saying to leave the thawed apples in the bag in the primary, without any pressing?





Tom said:


> YES!
> Let the pectic enzyme do its thing. Trust me Some have called me the king of fresh fruit wine making.
> 
> BTW if doing 6 gallons you will need to split it between 2 fermenting buckets. I would use 35 # for 6 gallons and add a f-pac later and back sweeten


Sorry I'm so dense, Tom. Above, are you saying to leave the bag of lees in the primary when adding the meta and sugar? In other things I've read, the bag is pulled and pressed/squeezed before going to that next step.
So the bag of lees is left in the primary the whole time it's fermenting?


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

Well lets just say bag of fruit.. LOL
YES leave it in during fermentation. Rack when gravity around 1.015. Squeeze the bag and get all what left. Toss the "fruit" and if using a painters straining bag ..clean and reuse..


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## arcticsid (Dec 18, 2009)

I'll let Tom respond to that since you addressed it to him. But I heard, YES, just let it float around in there till you transfer it to the secondary.

Nylon stockings will work also as a "ferment bag". Just remeber to choose nylons that match the color of your eyes for best results! LOL. Of course, like the paint bag, they too need to be sterilized before using them, never know where that paint straining bag has been.


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> Well lets just say bag of fruit.. LOL
> YES leave it in during fermentation. Rack when gravity around 1.015. Squeeze the bag and get all what left. Toss the "fruit" and if using a painters straining bag ..clean and reuse..



Heretofore known as "bag-o-crap".  Got my straining bag today, so now all I have to do is psyche myself up to core and split 25# of apples. (3+ gal batch). With my apples, that's a 5 gal bucket full.
Thanks for your patience. I just wanted to get it straight, because your method eliminates two whole steps in the beginning.


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

Troy,
I DID respond look ABOVE your post..
U been drinking??


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

arcticsid said:


> Of course, like the paint bag, they too need to be sterilized before using them....


Tom, I always sterilize my pantyhose. Never know where _they've_ been, either.


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> Troy,
> I DID respond look ABOVE your post..
> U been drinking??


Alcohol never touches Troy's lips. Not since he discovered the funnel.


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

OP
You will need 2 buckets to ferment in. 
You can make a BIG starter and split it in the 2 buckets or add 1 packet of yeast to each bucket


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> Tom, I always sterilize my pantyhose. Never know where _they've_ been, either.



OP !
I didn't know YOU wore pantyhose!


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

*Here he goes...again.*

Off-the-wall question #83.
While coring and cutting a whole bunch of apples, the first ones done are doing to start to brown from oxidation. When I do apple rings for dehydrating, I throw them in lemon juice water to maintain the color. 
Wouldn't that same approach work for the wine apples, to ensure the end result was clearer, and not a dark brown? Or is it even something to consider?


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> Alcohol never touches Troy's lips. Not since he discovered the funnel.


Kinda like the saying;

*Threw the teeth (if you have any) over the gums watch out stomach here it comes !*


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> Kinda like the saying;
> 
> *Threw the teeth (if you have any) over the gums watch out stomach here it comes !*


I hope you meant "through". Otherwise I'm going to have a hard time getting that image out of my mind.


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> OP !
> I didn't know YOU wore pantyhose!


I don't recall saying anything about _wearing_ them....


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> Off-the-wall question #83.
> While coring and cutting a whole bunch of apples, the first ones done are doing to start to brown from oxidation. When I do apple rings for dehydrating, I throw them in lemon juice water to maintain the color.
> Wouldn't that same approach work for the wine apples, to ensure the end result was clearer, and not a dark brown? Or is it even something to consider?


What I do is add some lemon juice to about a gallon of water in a 5-6 gallon bucket. I added the 1/4rd apples to that. then put in 1 gallon zip lock bags and freeze 2-3 days later take out and add to YOUR pantyhose LOL.


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

OP 
That's why I speeled it that way just in case some want to make the "pour" go faster


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> What I do is add some lemon juice to about a gallon of water in a 5-6 gallon bucket. I added the 1/4rd apples to that. then put in 1 gallon zip lock bags and freeze 2-3 days later take out and add to YOUR pantyhose LOL.


That's exactly what I was talking about, and planning to do. 
But do you really think I'll need 2 buckets if I'm only doing 3 gallons, vs 6? I guess I won't know until I get the 17-18 pounds of apples in the first bucket, and see if I can add 3 gallons of water with any room to spare.
Allie's recipe was 9# per gallon. You advice above was a little under 6# per gallon. I'm sorta winging it in between.


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> OP
> That's why I speeled it that way just in case some want to make the "pour" go faster


I unnerstan cumplitly.


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> I don't recall saying anything about _wearing_ them....



YOUR words :
_*Tom, I always sterilize my pantyhose. Never know where they've been, either. *_
__________________


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> That's exactly what I was talking about, and planning to do.
> But do you really think I'll need 2 buckets if I'm only doing 3 gallons, vs 6? I guess I won't know until I get the 17-18 pounds of apples in the first bucket, and see if I can add 3 gallons of water with any room to spare.
> Allie's recipe was 9# per gallon. You advice above was a little under 6# per gallon. I'm sorta winging it in between.


25# will not fit in one bucket. also think of a f-pac and backsweetening later


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> YOUR words :
> _*Tom, I always sterilize my pantyhose. Never know where they've been, either. *_
> __________________


Well...yeah...so? I said they were *my* pantyhose, but I don't see anything there about *me* wearing them.


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom said:


> 25# will not fit in one bucket. also think of a f-pac and backsweetening later


I was basically going to split your measurements in half. But being quartered, they *are *going to take up a lot more space than the ground up apples I used in the cider.


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## Midwest Vintner (Dec 18, 2009)

IMO, apple wine is best made from straight juice and no water.


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

Midwest Vintner said:


> IMO, apple wine is best made from straight juice and no water.


Isn't that the definition of "cider" vs "wine"?


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## St Allie (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> Isn't that the definition of "cider" vs "wine"?



I think Midwest means.. add sugar to straight juice and take the SG...don't dilute the juice first.

Allie


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

St Allie said:


> I think Midwest means.. add sugar to straight juice and take the SG...don't dilute the juice first.
> 
> Allie


I understand. But in all my ignorance and confusion, I didn't add sugar to my cider. I had SG 1.046 without having to add any. From my understanding at the time, just like M says, if I'd raised the SG by adding sugar, I would have been making wine. It ended up very dry, and I had to back sweeten it in the end, so I guess it's 6 to one, half dozen to another.
Allie, IMO you are the Apple Queen here, so understand I'm not disputing anything.
I guess the burning question is: when is it cider, and when is it apple wine?


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## St Allie (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> I understand. But in all my ignorance and confusion, I didn't add sugar to my cider. I had SG 1.046 without having to add any. From my understanding at the time, just like M says, if I'd raised the SG by adding sugar, I would have been making wine. It ended up very dry, and I had to back sweeten it in the end, so I guess it's 6 to one, half dozen to another.
> Allie, IMO you are the Apple Queen here, so understand I'm not disputing anything.
> I guess the burning question is: when is it cider, and when is it apple wine?



heheh @ apple queen lol

in my opinion it's cider if it's fermented on its own sugars and wine if it's got sugar added.

Allie


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

St Allie said:


> heheh @ apple queen lol
> 
> in my opinion it's cider if it's fermented on its own sugars and wine if it's got sugar added.
> 
> Allie


THAT'S where I got that strange idea! 
Well, if Tom is the King of Fruit, you can be Queen of Apples.


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## St Allie (Dec 18, 2009)

Old Philosopher said:


> THAT'S where I got that strange idea!
> Well, if Tom is the King of Fruit, you can be Queen of Apples.



You calling Tom a fruit?

Allie


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## Tom (Dec 18, 2009)

[email protected]@D one Allie!

Remember paybacks can be h_ll...


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## Old Philosopher (Dec 18, 2009)

St Allie said:


> You calling Tom a fruit?
> 
> Allie


Read my lips! Did I say King of the Fruits? Did I say King Fruit? No! 
He called HIMSELF King of Fruit (wines). I can't stay out of trouble no matter what I do.


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## arcticsid (Dec 19, 2009)

Don't worry OP, I have been in trouble in here so many times they may send us over the side of the cliff together, just make sure you grab a jug before we free fall.

I once almost got beat half to death by a stalk of rhubarb!


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## Tom (Dec 19, 2009)

Hey TROY !
Its seem like where you live there must be alot of good fishing.
Have you ever done any ICE fishing like your Canadian brothers do here...n
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x768VAsOQSw[/ame]


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## arcticsid (Dec 19, 2009)

The fishing here is beyond imagination! Unfortunately we don't have many roads so alot of it is fly-in.I was taking flying lessons before I learned how to drive, but the first time I tried to land I bounced the plane pretty good, so now I just take off, and fly, never liked the landing part much, though I have. Still bounce a little bit, but not afraid. The first time I was ever in a n airplane was a float plane and I seen fishing that would make your snowboard curl up!
The Kenai peninsula is the best salmon fishing in the world, The record is like 94 pounds!!

Ice fishing. No way. I fell through the ice the first year here, and although it was 30 yrs ago i absolutely will not go on the ice. LOL This is from a guy who spent almost 5 yrs in the commercial fishing business here, "Deadliest Catch" scenarios and been to Siberia and back on a boat. That water is like 34F and will kill you almost instantly. Go figure. I tried to tell you before I was half Polish!! ROTFLMAO!


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## Tom (Dec 19, 2009)

TROY,
Which half is Polish?
I'm thinking the top??


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## applelover12 (Dec 28, 2015)

*Apple wine and ingredienses*

Hello.
Seem many put in cinnamon in the apple wine - is it best BEFORE fermenting?

I like to know if any have experience or comments about added tannin and acid to the apple wine.


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## Thig (Dec 28, 2015)

I think putting cinnamon in the wine turns it into "apple pie wine", not just an apple wine. I have made both and add the cinnamon after fermentation.


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## barbiek (Dec 28, 2015)

I like to only add the cinnamon Styx. And I add to the secondary. More control that way you can always pull them if need be


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