# Battonage for the purpose of mouth feel



## Norton (Nov 19, 2014)

I was watching a documentary on making wine in burgundy where they make Pinot noir and Chardonnay. At one point one of the winemakers said that they used battonage solely for the purpose of adding some body to a wine that was too light tasting. Of course they were doing it with barrels, Any idea if it would work for other varietals, and if so what would be the process for those of us using carboys?


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## francois_du_nord (Nov 19, 2014)

Hey Norton! 

Battonage is a winemaking technique that provides extended contact with the fine lees. 

To do it in carboys, gently stir the lees back into your wine daily.

Best, Fran


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## seth8530 (Nov 19, 2014)

I am not sure how large of an impact the processes has, ( have not done a side by side) but I have done it before on one of my chards. I have not yet tried it with anything else yet, but it is a used process.


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## DoctorCAD (Nov 20, 2014)

If you like the taste of dead yeast (think a chardonnay-like mouthfeel) then battonage is perfect. I wouldn't use that technique on too many red wines, but I'm sure that it is used for some.


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## BernardSmith (Nov 20, 2014)

I wonder if battonage might work with cider? Always looking for ways to increase the mouthfeel of my ciders. Thank you for this idea. I think I will do a side by side test later this winter.


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## Buehler91 (Nov 20, 2014)

DoctorCAD said:


> If you like the taste of dead yeast (think a chardonnay-like mouthfeel) then battonage is perfect. I wouldn't use that technique on too many red wines, but I'm sure that it is used for some.



you dont like theresults of this method I take it?
will this dead yeast taste always be there?


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## cintipam (Nov 20, 2014)

Bernard D47 has been the yeast of choice for battonage for years. Another experienced member just pointed out a paper which discussed that QA23 also tested well for the process. In all my reading I believe it is only cool climate Chard, Sauv Blanc, Chenin Blanc and occasionally Pinot Gris that can benefit from this process. I also ran into one reference for Soave Classico. Seems the process really reduces fruit flavors and aromas which is prob why it isn't used on other whites or any reds I've ever seen mentioned.

I got the info about types from a blurb by Tim in reference to doing battonage on kits. Because lots of white kits include bentonite I thought it might be ok with bentonite, but I just discovered the hard way that every time you stir bentonite up it strips a little bit of flavor. I was doing a side by side on chard and luckily happened to notice that my standard chard had a lot more flavor than the battonage one. I stopped test and racked combining the 2 carboys to rescue the light flavored one. So just don't try it with bentonite.

I think cider is worth a test, esp since I'd class it as a white. I don't know how it would effect the honey flavor, but I'm sure you will let us all know.

Pam in cinti


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## seth8530 (Nov 20, 2014)

Honestly, I would not say its only this this and that style which benefit from surlie.. I think it is more of a stylistic choice TBH. Ie, surlie is done sometimes on pinot noir. But, I think it really comes down to, what have the grapes given the winemaker and what does the winemaker want to do with what he has been given to work with.


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## BernardSmith (Nov 20, 2014)

I thought D47 created all kinds of problems if you aged sur lie... The mead makers on another forum get all goose pimply whenever anyone mentions D47


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## Norton (Nov 20, 2014)

Francois,
Would you define fine lees as anything that shows up after the first racking if using grapes or juice? Would the first lees from a kit count? Just wondering how to decide what Is "fine" for battonage purposes.
Also, to clarify for others, the documentary didn't show if they were using battonage on chard or Pinot.just that it was wine from Burgundy appellation.


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## francois_du_nord (Nov 21, 2014)

Norton,

I'm probably the least experienced of the folks you've got on this thread, but I've been doing some research on Battonage for the Sauv Blanc I just started. 

I describe fine lees as anything not chunky, and that certainly applies for kits as well. The technique is primarily focused on getting the yeast back into suspension to provide the benefits. 

I just racked a kit with skins off secondary and it still had quite a bit of grape solids that I don't think Id want to leave over the course of multiple months in my wine. I'd be more comfortable for a first test with a layer of floculated yeast rather than solids.

Pam, great input on the bentonite. I fired my Eclipse SB uip the other night with bentonite as directed, so I guess battonage is out on this one.

I'll try it on my LE Viognier that I've got queued up next, but will leave out the bentonite. Both will be with D47

Keep y'all posted, Fran


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## cintipam (Nov 21, 2014)

Hi all

Since I know now it's about a kit, I'll cut and paste info posted by another experienced member. I sincerely apologize that I did not save the name along with these instructions when I copied the post.............

These are the instructions for Battonage(Sur Lees) from Winemaker Mag and written by Tim Vandergrift who is the Technical service Manager for Winexpert wine co. and also use to work for RJ Spagnols.

You do the battonage before you stabilize the wine with K-meta and sorbate. Here are Tim's instructions:

Our kits tend to have a softer, more complex flavor profile than you might expect. We achieve this partly by carefully choosing our oak styles and the protocols for using them. By including the oak in with the fermentation (instead of after) we get a much softer profile, which includes some butter and vanilla notes, as opposed to woody or smoky characters.
Now you can't do malolactic on the kits. It will end in tears if you try. However, there is a technique called ‘battonage' that will help fatten up the finish of the wine, and give it a rich, creamy mouth feel. Here's the deal:
· Make you kit up as normal, and rack to the secondary carboy on day 5-7 as directed.
· After ten days, ignore the instructions about fining and stabilizing. Instead, add one-quarter teaspoon of metabisulphite powder to the wine, and gently stir it up with a sanitized spoon.
· Get all of the yeast sediment in to suspension, make sure it's nice and cloudy, but don't splash or agitate.
· Top up with some decent Chardonnay wine (this is better than using water for this technique). At three or four day intervals, go back and stir the yeast up again.
· Repeat every three or four days for a month.
· Let the wine settle for two weeks, rack it into a clean, sanitized carboy, and follow all the remaining instructions on schedule, omitting no detail however slight.
By stirring the yeast into suspension repeatedly you get the benefits of the amino acids they carry, along with a host of compounds—principally mannoproteins, which give they creamy aroma and mouth feel.
Supposedly (I've never done it), hot climate Chardonnay does not do so well with sur lie/battonage as cooler climate Chardonnay does. It can be done to Pinot Gris/Blanc, Sauvignon Blanc, and Chenin Blanc. It's never really done to Riesling, Gewurztraminer, Viognier, and other aromatic whites.Enoferm ICV-D47 is a Côtes du Rhône isolate from Suze-la-Rousse for the production of full-bodied barrel fermented Chardonnay and other white varietals. When left on lees, ripe spicy aromas with tropical and citrus notes are developed. Enoferm ICV-D47 is a high polysaccharide producer known for its accentuated fruit and great volume. On most of the white grape varieties, this yeast elaborates wines with ripe stable fruits or jam-like aromas. Thanks to these aromas, the cuvées fermented with the Enoferm ICV-D47 are a good source of complexity in the blends. Moreover Enoferm ICV-D47 contributes to the wines silkiness and persistence. 
.................................................................................................................................

Fran, glad I stopped you from bentonite messing with your wine. Oddly, when I was performing the side by side test my life got really chaotic and I was kicking myself for not keeping up the schedule. I even had 3 unlabeled jars of white topping wine in the fridge. It was when I tasted those jars to ID them that I discovered one had no flavor at all. It clearly had a good layer of bentonite at the bottom and had been pushed around the fridge several times daily stirring up the bentonite each time. Luckily the actual carboy had not lost as much flavor, but it was noticeably less flavor than the carboy that I had never disturbed.

Pam in cinti


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