# Winemaking room ... what do I need?



## KenS (Jan 13, 2013)

Hi all, 

Just moved from Seattle to the Chicago area, and starting to get back to making wine. The house we bought has a large unfinished basement, and we're getting ready to hire a designer and contractor to build it out with a bar, bathroom, exercise room, theater room, and .... a winemaking room! I probably have around 12' x 12' space available.

Looking for suggestions as to features, design, layout, etc. Seems like a one-shot opportunity to make it a great space for winemaking, so thought I'd get ideas from people who have done this longer than me. Previously, I had used a laundry room with a nice counter, cabinets and laundry sink, but it was a bit cramped. This is my chance to do it right!

Ideas?


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## Runningwolf (Jan 13, 2013)

Ken, I'll let others chime in here but first and foremost you need a large deep sink. Even a good laundry tray works and they're not expensive.


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## JohnT (Jan 14, 2013)

I would make the following recommendations....

1) Door to the outside. If you have an area in your basement that has direct access to the outside of your house, I would consider that area. If the door to the outside does not involve any steps, then so much the better. This make life so easy since you now do not need to carry anything through the house and you now have an option to easily hose off equipment outside. I would say that this is the most helpful tip (especially if you are making wine from fresh grapes).

2) Like RW said, a sink! One with hot water would be even better. One that has a hose spigot would be even better!

3) Lots of Counter Space!!!! you simply can not get enough! You want one that can be wipped clean (like formica). 

4) LOTS OF SHELVES!!! can not have enough to store all of the widgets one collects in this hobby. 

5) A separate heat zone. This is a "would be nice". It is really nice to control the temp in the winery, while not affecting and other part of the house.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 14, 2013)

It may be obvious: plumbing has been mentioned already, but don't forget electric outlets. You want to have some juice to run things like a wine pump, etc. With a sink nearby, make sure you have a GFCI.


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## roadpupp (Jan 14, 2013)

If you have a floor drain in your basement, you might see if you can encorporate that in your space. My decision was based on access to the floor drain, access to a basement window for an airconditioner and at least two foundation walls for passive cooling. I will put in a sink and build racks for bottles after the walls with lots of insulation go up. Winemaker magazine had a nice article about a "one wall winery" in April/May of 2012. I don't think many would follow the design but it lists all the types of storage and amenities you would need. 

Finally as a lighting designer, don't forget to put ample lighitng where you need it. Several linear fluorescent lamps either recessed or hanging over sinks and work areas where you will be measuring and testing as well as some general lighting bright enough to clean up spills.


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## Rocky (Jan 14, 2013)

Ken, sounds really exciting. You have some excellent recommendations above and I would add the following:


If possible, get a double sink, one side for washing one for rinsing and draining. Stainless steel is best for easy clean up and sanitizing.
Shelves are good and need to be strong enough to handle full carboys (weighing about 40-50 pounds each depending on size).
If possible, work in a wine cellar area in addition to the wine production area, ideally that can be temperature & humidity controlled.
Try to get some type of floor covering for the production area that is softer than concrete and easy to clean & sanitize.
Cabinets and drawer units are very helpful.
Build a peg board unit to hang and have at hand all your small equipment items, e.g. wine thier, auto siphon, tubing, spoons, etc.
As mentioned above, hot and cold water are a must. I have a re-cycled kitchen sink faucet with the pull out hose which works well. A separate sprayer may be even better.
Your production area will have a "wet side" where the sink is and where water is commonly used and a "dry side for chemical storage, computer if you plan to use one, etc.
A floor drain is really helpful if you have one in the area.
Although getting harder and harder to find, incandescent light is the better than flourescent.
A vent or exhaust fan is very useful to remove excess humidty.
Sound like a neat project. Keep us up to date on your progress.


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## Arne (Jan 14, 2013)

It would be nice to have a small range in there for when you want to boil water or heat thing up. Arne.


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## KenS (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks everybody, this is just what I was hoping for. I will definitely have a sink with hot/cold water. I like the idea of a double sink, as that will help with washing and rinsing separately. Rather than a range, I will make room for a microwave for heating up water (I've switched to a heat gun for doing the shrink capsules). Hadn't thought of a pegboard, but I like that idea too.

How would you folks setup 'active work area' vs. 'carboy storage/aging area'? Any suggestions for easier workflow?

And what about flooring? I was thinking of ceramic tile, but is there a smarter way?

Thanks again


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## roadpupp (Jan 14, 2013)

Not to hijack but I'm curious as to why Rocky thinks incandescent is better than fluorescent? 

Chad


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## GreginND (Jan 14, 2013)

roadpupp said:


> Not to hijack but I'm curious as to why Rocky thinks incandescent is better than fluorescent?
> 
> Chad



Personal preference for the type of light? Some people find fluorescent light rather harsh on the eyes. It doesn't bother me much but I do notice a difference with warmer LED lights.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 14, 2013)

KenS said:


> And what about flooring? I was thinking of ceramic tile, but is there a smarter way?
> 
> Thanks again



If it's concrete, I'd be tempted to simply epoxy it and put down some rubber mats to provide a little protection against dropping things. Need to clean? Take the mats out to the driveway and hose 'em down, mop the floor while they dry off.


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## photony (Jan 14, 2013)

By all means use a faucet with a deck-mount sprayer!
I think a ceramic tile floor is fine. My carboy storage area has a concrete floor, so I use carpet squares to place the carboys on when I need to place them on the floor temporarily. It doesn't take much of a blow to crack a glass carboy.
I like the idea of a small cooktop for dissolving sugar or steaming juice.


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## Rocky (Jan 14, 2013)

roadpupp said:


> Not to hijack but I'm curious as to why Rocky thinks incandescent is better than fluorescent?
> 
> Chad


 
Chad, I was thinking more along the lines of UV light emission and the possible danger to the wine. It is probably not a huge deal either way.

As far as a range or cooktop, I have a small hot plate that I use (very occasionally) that is electric. If you go this way, be sure you have the proper amp circuit to light it up.


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## roadpupp (Jan 14, 2013)

RE: Rocky's note
Ahh. I see. Still, in order to generate the amount of light you want in a wine work area, I would highly recommend linear fluorescent. My carboys sit inside a cabinet and my bottles sit on a rack that does recieve some light but I am not worried because I am lucky to get two or three hours a week in the wine room at this point! If the wine will be exposed for long periods of time, it should be protected from light. UV sleeves are available for fluorescent but it isn't just UV that spoils wine.


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## Bartman (Jan 14, 2013)

Everybody beat me to all the good ideas! 
In addition to those above, if you don't have one already, I would get a small refrigerator for storing some wine-related items in the refrigerator, primarily yeast. Especially if you don't live near a LHBS, since yeast need to be kept cool to store.


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## Scott (Jan 14, 2013)

They only thing I could add is... to take up more than the 12x12 space!


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## DaveL (Jan 14, 2013)

I am much newer to this than all of the above but I believe I have read about humidity control as being important on the storage side of the obsession. So if your going to be storing in the same room or a stand alone "cellar" why not address this as well when in the construction phase. 
I'm sure there are specialized coatings and or wall material that could/should be used to help control humidity on both sides of the wall. Also any kind of humidifier needed could probably be done cheaper now than later.
Also think about any possible condensation that could result and the appropriate mold, moisture aversion steps. 
In case its not obvious I am new to wine making but old to construction. 
I am curious what some of the Vets think about this as well because I to have an unfinished basement with a future wine room in the plans

Best of luck.
Dave


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## ShtWine (Feb 21, 2013)

The only thing I would add to all these great rec's is cover every wall and ceiling in glassboard so you can hose down the entire place in sanitizer.... heh... and like Scott said, use more space.


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## sdelli (Feb 24, 2013)

Just got done building my small wine room. With purchased wine racks to maximize space it should hold around 550 bottles.... I did a lot of reading on the Internet about this. Just google building a wine cellar or something close. You will get more info then you want! But to answer your question. Insulate the room well then staple down 8 mil plastic to seal walls and ceiling. Then finish walls and ceiling. Try to figure out what type of unit you plan on using for cooling and humidity so the cutout can be made.


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## dcteague (Feb 24, 2013)

Don't forget a music source of some form.


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## harmony24 (Feb 24, 2013)

Can you use a air conditioner in the wine room instead of an expensive room cooling system?


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## saramc (Feb 24, 2013)

Did anyone cover cabinets and a place for some wine glasses?


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## sdelli (Feb 24, 2013)

Window air conditioners do not go down low enough in temp.....60-65


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 25, 2013)

Oh, don't forget the obvious: a corkscrew!


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## Bartman (Feb 25, 2013)

sdelli said:


> Window air conditioners do not go down low enough in temp.....60-65


Well, I think an A/C unit could be set that low, and keep the temperature that low, but they are not as efficient at that lowest setting. I would also add, that keeping wine at 68-70 is not really a problem; keeping the temperature constant is more important than the temperature level (obviously not very cold or very warm).

'Ideal' conditions won't make an average wine age into a great wine, and slightly warmer than perfect temperatures will not ruin a good homemade wine. Point is, don't agonize over it or spend excessive money to reach the lower temperature - if you have an a/c unit available at no cost vs. buying a refrigerating system and leaving the a/c system unused (and you are not trying to impress visitors to your winery), that's a no-brainer - use the available a/c unit.

Also, a humidifier is nice, but the main purpose is to keep the corks from drying out. If you don't plan on aging for 5-10+ years, the humidifier is not really necessary. Won't hurt, of course, but isn't as critical as a steady temperature (and no or very limited vibrations). I have no homemade wines that are over three years, despite my best efforts -


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## ColdClimateWines (Feb 25, 2013)

There is a device, invented reportedly by a NY farmer, called Cool-Bot. It turns a typical energy star AC unit into a fridge unit. We used one to cool a 12x12x10 box into a walk in. Cooled as low as 33 f. Unit is about $400. Google Cool bot. Also very low energy use.


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## KenS (Feb 25, 2013)

Actually, I think the replies here are addressing two different things. I had originally asked about a wine making room. Some of the discussion here is addressing a wine storage room. The good news is that I'm doing both . Permits are in process, and the work should start within a week or so.

For the wine making area, I think I've settled on putting in some of the Gladiator Garageworks equipment, like I have in my garage. Very sturdy 8' work bench (3,000 pound load capacity), and some of the various cabinets and drawer systems. I think it will give me a lot of flexibility, and is less expensive than built-in cabinetry.

For the wine storage area, the builder is recommending a unit called N'FINITY 3000 for cooling. That room should end up about 12' x 4', with a double entry door, and two smoked glass windows. I haven't yet arranged for the build-out of the wine racks, but we should end up with a lot of capacity in a room that size. Does anybody have any experience with that cooling unit?


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## ShtWine (Feb 25, 2013)

*Metro Shelving might be a good idea too.*

Metro Shelving is cool. 

At Sams you can get a set of six shelves and four poles for about $100. Then go to Webstaurant and get 4 more poles for about $5-6 each. (probably $30-$35 delivered.) so for around $135 you've got top shelf space for about 21 carboys. (7 on a shelf -or even 8 but it's pretty tight) 

If you use a pump of some sort, and don't have to worry about head space for the racking cane, you could probably load up your lower shelf too for a capacity of 42 carboys. I've never tried to load both

The stuff can be rearranged easily. Taken down, stored, and used again like new. It doesn't seem to get ragged the way some shelving does. It has a clean look, It's NSF, and I think each shelf is rated to 600 lbs. With eight six's you're at what? 8 lb gal x 8 carboys x 8 gallons (figuring a carboy weighs in around 16 lbs...) call it 500 lbs, but you will rarely if ever have 8 on one shelf and if they're rated for 600 they'll take more...

btw, i suggested glassboard earlier... that was a mistake its "glasbord." or fiberglass reinforced panel. I think Kemlite in Joliet makes it. -or did anyway.


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## Runningwolf (Feb 25, 2013)

Hey Ken I thought this thread was going in the wrong direction but since you brought it up now, where is this wine room located? If it's in the basement do you really feel like you have to climate control it? If the temperature stays pretty constant I think I would skip that huge expense of a cooling unit. You may need a dehumidifier at some point though. Depending on your builder he may be able to build you nice racks a lot cheaper then it would be to buy them. My wine cellar is on one outside wall and the temp stay aroung 65* (+-4*) year round.


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## KenS (Feb 25, 2013)

Runningwolf said:


> Hey Ken I thought this thread was going in the wrong direction but since you brought it up now, where is this wine room located? If it's in the basement do you really feel like you have to climate control it? If the temperature stays pretty constant I think I would skip that huge expense of a cooling unit. You may need a dehumidifier at some point though. Depending on your builder he may be able to build you nice racks a lot cheaper then it would be to buy them. My wine cellar is on one outside wall and the temp stay aroung 65* (+-4*) year round.



I keep going back and forth on it. We are doing a complete basement finishing project (about 1500 square feet total), which will include a workout room, TV/Video room, large bar area (like a pub ), the winemaking room, and then the wine storage. Unfortunately, the wine storage is designed in the center of the basement instead of an outside wall. Should have thought about that more.

Because overall it's an active living area, we'll probably keep it a bit warmer than just a 'basement storage' room. That's why I think I should do the cooling. Plus, with the investment in the whole project, it just seems like now is the time to 'do it right'. But it's still real money, so I do keep waffling on that last item. At a minimum, I'll have all of the insulation and vapor barrier done; might hold off on the cooling unit itself (about $1,400 just for the unit).


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## DaveL (Feb 27, 2013)

If your storage room is only 4 ft deep I would think your racking could only go on 1 wall. 12ft by 8ft tall? 96 sq ft. if your shelf can hold a bottle every four inches thats 9 bottles per ft. 9x 96 is 864 bottles. Sounds like alot but Im already finding they add up quick. If you added a foot or 2 to the width and your door was at the end yoou could double your capicity. Assumimng a 3 ft isle.


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## luvtoski (Oct 24, 2013)

I am also building a wine making room and agree with all of the suggestions. In reference to flooring, I was going to use ceramic/porcelain tiles but then came across new floor coatings from traccoatings.com, that are as nice if not nicer than ceramic. Much less expensive and easier to maintain.


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