# Mystery solved - Volume of 6 gallon Better Bottle/PET vs. 6 gallon glass!!!!!



## TimTheWiner (Mar 3, 2012)

So, I am still pretty new here and into the hobby, but it recently came to my attention that there seems to be some mystery surrounding the TRUE volume of certain carboys. I recently purchased the All In One Pump and thus phasing out all my Better Bottles to Glass (better handles the vacuum). I had a 6 gallon Better Bottle (PET/plastic carboy) that was completely topped off to within 2 inches of the bung. _However_ after racking to the new 6 gallon Italian glass carboy there was a TON of headspace (no sediment left behind or wine in tubing). I was infuriated that I just spent $150 on 3 new glass carboys and they were not truly 6 gallons. It took nearly a liter and a half of store bought wine to get up the to neck (1125 ml)!

After contacting another local store they recommended trying there chinese made glass carboys as they are supposedly truly 6 gallons. To my dismay, after a racking to these new carboys it came to the same height! I do realize that most glass carboys are sold as 23 liter, not 6 gallon, but 23 liters=6.076 gallon, but that .076 only equates to 287 ml. So why was I still 838 ml off?? Time for an answer. I figured they had to be inconsistencies in where the factories are considering full volume so I decided to do a side by side comparison to find out for sure.

Below are both carboys side by side with EXACTLY 6 gallons of water. It is clear there is a major difference.














Now indeed the glass carboy is measured as 23 liters not 6 gallons like the Better Bottle so I decided to add the extra .076 gallon or 287 ml to bring it to exactly 23 liters and we still end up with the level below. It too nearly another 750 ml for me to get it right up to the bottom of the neck.





I am not a big fan of the options. Spend more $$ on a store bought wine which I don't want effecting my batch and may not even be able to find from the same appalachian, dilute with water (slightly lowering ABV), using marbles to raise the level which is a lot of extra cleaning/sterilizing, or an air bladder such as the on VacuumPumpMan is developing. Just seems a bit annoying to me that these glass carboys are so far off. Hope this is somewhat useful to someone.


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## cpfan (Mar 3, 2012)

Thank you for the pictures and doing the work. However, most of us old timers have known for a long time that the Italian 6 US gallon carboys are a lot oversize. That's why I own the Mexican 6 USG carboys, which are no longer made, and take very good care of them.

Steve


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## TimTheWiner (Mar 3, 2012)

Doh . Live and learn I guess. Would've been nice if the 30 year "vintner" at one shop or 13 year "vintners" from the other shop enlightened me to this fact after speaking with the multiple times on the subject and them having no idea what I was talking about.


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## Dugger (Mar 3, 2012)

Just an FYI - there are some older Italian carboys that are truly 23 liters/6 US gal/5 Imp gal, like the Mexican and are smooth sided like the Mexican - I don't know why or when they deviated from that to the modern Italian ones. So if someone wants to sell you a used Italian one, check to see what it actually is- if it's one of the older ones you're in luck.


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## Startwining (Mar 3, 2012)

You also have to take into account the physical size of the carboy they can both be "6gallon" but height and radius will account for a difference in how there volumes is shaped. Or looks


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## TimTheWiner (Mar 3, 2012)

Yeh, at least I feel a litter better about not being so _stuck_. The first shop was only going to allow me to return them for store credit and their kit selection stinks. I think I will keep the two Italian and one Chinese and return the other two chinese to purchase my next kit at the _good_ shop, lol.


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## ibglowin (Mar 3, 2012)

I just get a good clean rack, save the lees and let it settle for a day in a 1.5L wine bottle or similar. Then transfer off the extra wine back to the carboy. Sometimes I get as much as another bottle of wine this way. Then top off with an inexpensive like wine. It doesn't matter if you buy expensive or cheap, it won't effect the taste or flavor profile either way. I know from experience as I have added $4 bottles of wine as well as $15 bottles. Could not detect any real difference good or bad.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Mar 4, 2012)

Why would you ever return a carboy and not get another carboy? You are in luck and dont even know it. Its easy to make a little more wine in the primary to fill your largest volume carboys, let the sediment fall in them, and then rack into the smaller volume carboy and you wont have to top it off with so much other wine. I mark my bigger or smaller volume 5 gal carboys and use the bigger ones for the transfer from the primary and then rack into the smaller ones later after the lees settle out. Also, as you get more into winemaking you are going to have bottles of your own stock aging that you can add to top off so the difference in volumes isnt really such a big deal. Crackedcork


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## grapeman (Mar 4, 2012)

After you have made a few batches, just top off with your own...........................
I don't worry whatr size mine are anymore because I make it from my own juice so it is just a vessel to hold small batches of wine.


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## QCStang (Mar 4, 2012)

I think it depends where the bottles were made, and what system was used.

If a bottle is made using Imperial or US gallon measurements.

23 L = 5.05929 gal(Imperial, IE the rest of the world EXCEPT the US)
23 L = 6.07595 gal(US Liq)

So, when buying carboys, always ask in LITERS!


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## cpfan (Mar 4, 2012)

QCStang said:


> I think it depends where the bottles were made, and what system was used.
> 
> If a bottle is made using Imperial or US gallon measurements.
> 
> ...


QCStang..

I think you have missed the original point. They are BOTH sold as 23 litre carboys, and BOTH 5 Imp gallon carboys, and BOTH 6 US gallon carboys. But the glass one is MUCH larger. I think it's about a 0.75 to 1.0 litre difference.

The box that the Italian glass carboys came in three years ago (and probably still today) said 23 litres on two sides, and 6 US gallons on the other two sides.

You can buy a 5 US gallon carboy, and they are 19 litres.

Steve


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## vacuumpumpman (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks for all the detail with pictures - hopefully this will help someone - so they will not have to learn the hard way as you had to.

Thanks Steve
http://allinonewinepump.com/


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## QCStang (Mar 4, 2012)

cpfan said:


> QCStang..
> 
> I think you have missed the original point. They are BOTH sold as 23 litre carboys, and BOTH 5 Imp gallon carboys, and BOTH 6 US gallon carboys. But the glass one is MUCH larger. I think it's about a 0.75 to 1.0 litre difference.
> 
> ...



Kind of confusing, eh?

I wonder how many importers of carboys there is in the US. As the O.P. said some may possibly be made in China, but maybe originally designed for another purpose?

All of my carboys - except one are all the same size (23L), and all are made in Italy, and all from the same source (Defalco). Perfect kit size.


The only one that is a different size actually says made in Italy, 1966, 6 1/2 gallon. I prefer using it for secondary fermentation and racking as it is completely smooth.


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## cpfan (Mar 4, 2012)

QCStang said:


> Kind of confusing, eh?
> 
> I wonder how many importers of carboys there is in the US. As the O.P. said some may possibly be made in China, but maybe originally designed for another purpose?



I guess I've been doing this too long cause it's not confusing to me. 

To the best of my knowledge, there is one carboy manufacturer in Italy. So it doesn't really matter how many distributors. There was only one carboy plant in Mexico. I don't know anything about the Chinese glass carboys, as I haven't really been in the market since 2007.

In case anybody cares, I know of four different manufacturers of plastic carboys over the last 10 years. Not sure if two of them are still making carboys.

Steve


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## bstnh1 (Aug 23, 2013)

Ever compare the capacity of a 6 gallon Better Bottle to another 6 gallon Better Bottle? They vary all over the place. Drives me nuts. You should be able to expect consistency in size and volume in these. This isn't rocket science. After all, millions of plastic bottles are produced every day all over the would that are the same size and volume.


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## Billberry (Aug 23, 2013)

I guess carboy capacity differences have been around since the Mexican ones were no longer manufactured? Some wine loving American entrepreneur could make some good money manufacturing a true 6 gallon carboy! Either that or someone needs to convert 6 gallon recipes to accommodate the carboys that are sold today.


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## vacuumpumpman (Aug 23, 2013)

I actually marked all my carboys for volumes, it is alot easier when I have to down size due to sediment and transfers.


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## jamesngalveston (Aug 23, 2013)

thats a smart move steve, I never even thought of that.


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