# grape pails from midwest supplies



## deboard (Jul 10, 2010)

I just pulled the trigger on a frozen grape pail from midwest supplies, it is a Syrah. I wanted to get some experience making wine from grapes, and I thought this might be a good way to start. The website says 2 pails will be enough for 6+ gallons of wine, so I bought one since I generally do 3 gallon batches. 

Anyone ever did one of these and have any tips or things to watch out for? 

I went ahead and bought the additive pack for 8 bucks extra since it contains the MLF packet which is $7.95 by itself. Yeast, oak, finings, all in there as well.


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## Wade E (Jul 10, 2010)

I have not, what brand are the grapes?


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## Racer (Jul 10, 2010)

Those frozen grapes from midwest are Brehm's. Midwest bought all the inventory of the company(name escapes me right now) that was trying to sell you their expensive winemaking machine. They sourced all their grapes they wanted you to buy from them from Brehm's. When they went bust midwest found out about their grape inventory and bought it all at a good price. Should make some really good wine from it, the quality should be there.


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## Wade E (Jul 10, 2010)

That is the best brand out there so you have a great product there. I have tasted it a few times and it produces a very very good wine!!!!!!!!


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## deboard (Jul 10, 2010)

I think Racer is correct, there is a bit of text on the webpage that says that. Specifically I bought the 2008 Anadelle Estate Syrah since Syrah/Shiraz is one of my favorites. Didn't hurt that it was the cheapest as well! 

Well now I'm pretty excited about it, can't wait to get it started!


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## surlees (Jul 11, 2010)

I did their Rancho Sarco Cab. Sauv. & their Windsor Oaks Sauv. Blanc. Both are now aging in carboys. I did MLF on the C.S. and will barrel age as soon as my barrel is free. So far, so good!


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## deboard (Jul 11, 2010)

Just curious surlees, how do these things show up? Are they completely frozen? How long did it take to thaw for you? Is the pail they come in suitable as a primary or do they need to be transferred?


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## Minnesotamaker (Jul 11, 2010)

The inventory came from a company called WinePod that is no longer in business. I got 1 bucket of Syrah and it yielded 3 gallons. It's still in the carboy bulk aging. I did my thawing in the winter, so I don't remember the thawing timeline and my thawing temp would have been lower at the time. One thing I recall, be sure to mix the thawed grapes well, because sometimes, sugars and/acids can precipitate out during the freezing process.


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## surlees (Jul 11, 2010)

> Just curious surlees, how do these things show up? Are they completely frozen? How long did it take to thaw for you? Is the pail they come in suitable as a primary or do they need to be transferred?



It was April 1 when I received my shipment, so the weather was still cool there and here where I live. They were frozen when shipped and shipped early in the week so that they wouldn't have to sit over a weekend. I got them in 2-3 days and they were still 1/2 frozen. I had them thawed in one day.

This time of year my guess is they would be thawed, but still cold. I was very satified with the quality and plan to order 2 more pails of the Rancho Sarco and another pail of Windsor Oaks in a couple of weeks. 

The pail can be used to ferment, but it's a bit tall and narrow compared to my fermenter so I chose to not use them to ferment in.

Fred


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## deboard (Jul 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies. I actually got a call from them today saying it was shipping, so shouldn't be too long 'til I get it.


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## Wineau (Jul 12, 2010)

I just finished MLF on this wine and now I am doing a cold stabilization. It was much more fun (and work) than a kit but it seems promising. I expect it to be a year before it really shines.

NOTE: The Annandale Syrah is a 4 gallon pail. You are more likely to end up with about 5 gallons of finished wine. (It is shipped in a 5 gallon pail though.) I still used my regular 6.5 gal pail for primary fermentation.
Some of the frozen grapes Midwest has are 5 gallon pails and 2 of those make about 6 gals. The grapes were originally sold by WinePod.

Another Note: They do have some stems in them. I even found a dead bee on the top of my pail. I thought that was pretty cool. I felt really close to the vineyard!


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## Wade E (Jul 12, 2010)

Some stems actually add ot the tannin level but just use a little I know some people who actually purposely put some in.


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## seopiper (Jul 12, 2010)

If it are frozen, can be that it are not good anymore?
I just tasted a home made red wine from a friend, two types and taste really good. Will have to ask how he do it though.


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## deboard (Jul 15, 2010)

OK, got the pail and got it thawed to room temp, pitched the yeast tonight. The "Ingredient Pack" comes with potassium sorbate, but I'm pretty sure you don't mix MLF and potassium sorbate, so I'll leave that out. Maybe they put that in in case you bypass the MLF step.


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## deboard (Jul 16, 2010)

So far this is one of the easiest wines I've made. The bucket it came in is the same size as my primary anyways, so I am just fermenting in the bucket. The instructions say not to sulfite since it has been frozen, and basically only calls for yeast nutrient and yeast. The brix and acid % is listed on the bucket (22 and 0.7%). I did go ahead and add pectic enzyme beforehand, even though it did not call for it. 

It's bubbling away today, I punched the cap down this morning and when I got home. Smells great too.


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## Racer (Jul 16, 2010)

I don't think that it would hurt anything by adding the pectic enzyme but since the must was frozen I'm sure it would have broken down nicely for you without adding it too. Please do keep the updates coming. I'm not able to start any new wines for awhile so its nice to follow others progress on wines while I'm too busy to have some fun with new fermentations too.


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## Wade E (Jul 16, 2010)

Glad you added the enzymes as it also aids in color extraction not to metion preventing a pectin haze which is usually not a problem with grape wine but you never know.


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## deboard (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm guessing I'll be regretting saying this is the easiest wine I've made so far when I go to press. I'll be doing it the manual way with straining bags I guess.


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## deboard (Jul 23, 2010)

Oh yeah, the easiness on the front end is more than made up for by the first racking out of the primary. I kept getting the siphon clogged up (even with an autosiphon), and then I had to scoop all the grapes into a nylon bag and press it by hand. Longest. Racking. Ever. Made a bit of a mess, but luckily I don't think I stained any grout. If there is any my wife will find it for me though. 

Ended up with about 2 3/4 gallons of liquid, which I'm sure will reduce to 2 1/2 or so when it settles out some. Composter got a lot of good used grapes though, I don't have the room to start anything else to use them again. 

So, since this is my first time racking a wine with the grapes/fruit floating in it (not in a bag). What would have worked better? I think I racked a day late, it said to rack at 1.000. But it was way hard to get a good SG reading with all the particles in the wine. 

So for future reference, what's a good method to test SG on a grape wine?

And: What's the best way to rack it off primary!? (I didn't accidentally discover it)


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## Rock (Jul 23, 2010)

Next time try using a colinder (speghetti strainer) this helps with smaller bathes.press inside a 6 gallon bucket make sure you use rubber gloves and make sure you get a seperate colinder only for this purpose.just because you might not ever get it clean the way it was and the wife gets pissed off.


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## Wade E (Jul 23, 2010)

If you look on Lucs blog youll see a decent design for a 2 bucket grape press. It is a pretty good way to go ith small batches of fruit wines and stuff like this and easy and cheap to do. The only easy way to get a good reading witha wine like this is to get a wine thief and extract some wine and let your hydrometer float in there for the reading. Are you going to do MLF on this?


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## deboard (Jul 23, 2010)

Yes, I will be doing MLF, it came with a Lalvin Bacchus packet, and the instructions say to rack again 3 days from now and then add the MLF packet. 

I used my wine thief that you can put the hydrometer in, but I think that is a bad idea, it never gets full enough due to the particles clogging it. I finally used a test jar and got a decent reading. It was actually completely done when I racked it. 

Is it easier to rack when you have the cap floating above? I ended up mixing it up testing the SG. 

I'll look up luc's blog, maybe I can get a couple of cheap buckets from the donut store to make it. 

@rock A collander probably would have helped quite a bit I did not think of it. I'll remember that in the future if I can't build Luc's bucket press. I also did not think of rubber gloves, now my fingers are stained purple.


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## Wade E (Jul 23, 2010)

Do you know that you can use the thief and dunk it up and down fast to fill it up instead of just putting it under the juice and letting it fill up that way? The quicking bobbing up and down method usually works well and shakes off what starts to get clogged at the tip of it.


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## deboard (Jul 23, 2010)

No, did not know of that method, I will try that in the future, thanks!


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## Wineau (Jul 24, 2010)

*Pressed skins*

Next time you do a frozen bucket, save the pressings and freeze them. You can use them to give a bit more structure and depth to cheap wine kits. Granted a lot of good stuff is gone after pressing, but there is still some there. Avoid the seeds if you can.


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## deboard (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks Wineau, I did not think of that either. 

I found another casualty of this racking, my autosiphon is broken now. There is a small plastic part just inside the bottom opening that something pushed loose. Since it's inside I just couldn't get it back where it needs to be. I used tweezers first, then tried using a siphon hose to line it up and push it back in place. Finally ended up breaking one of the little plastic arms on it, so it's done. It's one of those things that I have that I don't know how I managed before I had it! Oh well, I can go back to the old fashioned method until I can get another one.


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## Wade E (Jul 24, 2010)

Bummer on the auto siphon and I hear ya on how did we ever manage without one.


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## homer (Aug 13, 2010)

Damn, I never thought about getting two buckets, that would make the 6 gal carboy work out, I bought one Charles Smith Cab maybe I should call Monday and have them ship two????? Saving all this money making my own wine is almost breaking me. bk


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## countrygirl (Aug 18, 2010)

deboard said:


> Made a bit of a mess, but luckily I don't think I stained any grout.



at first i thought i read
"strained my gout"
sorry...
i was also wondering, what is the beginning specific gravity for grapes.
1.080 like fruits?


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## deboard (Aug 18, 2010)

Oh lord, not my gout! Although staining the grout in the laundry room might make me end up in pain!

I think with my syrah the SG was right at 1.092 or so. Around 23 brix. I think this will vary from grape to grape though and also with how ripe they are. I didn't mess with my grape bucket's SG, it seemed right to me for a syrah, so I went with it. 

Most Syrah's I buy are 13-14%, and 1.092 should be at the low end of that range at 13.18% alcohol. But a grape like a Pinot Noir is usually less, closer to 12% or so from what I have seen. Some of this depends on the winemaker of course, but I don't believe a lot of sugar is added to wine made from grapes. That's actually illegal in some parts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaptalization 

Then you get into the late harvest wines where they let them stay on the vine and ripen even more to get the sugar up. Those guys can end up in the 15% range.


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## xanxer82 (Aug 18, 2010)

I just ordered the Cabernet Savignon frozen grape pail. I got the additive pack and even with shipping still only $96.
Not bad at all. 
I'll be putting my press and new carboys to use for sure.


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## countrygirl (Aug 18, 2010)

deboard said:


> Oh lord, not my gout! Although staining the grout in the laundry room might make me end up in pain!
> 
> I think with my syrah the SG was right at 1.092 or so. Around 23 brix. I think this will vary from grape to grape though and also with how ripe they are. I didn't mess with my grape bucket's SG, it seemed right to me for a syrah, so I went with it.
> 
> ...


so just slightly higher than the fruit's 1.080...but usually all on it's own!?
this is like a whole new chapter to me...


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## deboard (Aug 18, 2010)

Yeah, I think that's why grapes became so popular for winemaking, they don't require added sugar.


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## Racer (Aug 19, 2010)

deboard said:


> Yeah, I think that's why grapes became so popular for winemaking, they don't require added sugar.



That and if harvested at the right time little to no adjustments on the acidity are needed either for grapes.


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## deboard (Nov 9, 2010)

4 month update: 
Just racked this one and plan on lettlng it bulk age for a couple months now. Had a glass or so left over and I am drinking it now. Definitely a candidate for some long term aging. Tastes pretty good, but you get the distinct feeling that everything will smooth out dramatically in a year or so. Right now I have 2 1 gallon carboys full + a wine bottle, I figure a couple more rackings before bottling. It's already pretty clear though, at least for a shiraz! 

I have to say that it was tough getting it out of the primary, but after that it's been great.


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## Wade E (Nov 9, 2010)

What did you use to press it?


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## deboard (Nov 9, 2010)

a nylon bag and my hands. I plan on either buying or making a press (like luc's bucket press) before the next time I do this!


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