# Tight Corks



## stormbringer (Oct 18, 2006)

I use #8 and #9 agglomerated corks which were bought from George. There have been no problems or issues with the #8 corks. I use the Italian floor corker and 750 ml. bottles.The #9 (x 1.75") size corks areso tight that I've broken (at least) one corkscrew. Tight is an understatement. 
I've read a previous post on this same subject and my bottles do not display any sort of cork residue inside the neck after opening. I'm careful to pull the cork up and out, as opposed to sort of sideways, as mentioned in the previous post.


I preferthe"waiters" type opener. The corks are so hard to remove that I'm sort of concerned about the opener chipping/breaking the bottle.Like all readers of this forum, Igive mywine to friends -- but I'm afraid to give any of this batch away because Iwould expecta phone call on the tight corks.


Both cork sizes do what they are supposed to do with the exception of the #9's being remarkably tight. I wonder if soaking the corks in K-Meta before bottling has any bearing on a possible adhesion?


Anyone have any thoughts on this topic?


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## Angell Wine (Oct 18, 2006)

I had the same problem so I switch to the 1.5 #9. I broke my rogers estate wine opener. They make replace parts so big deal. I switch over just a few months ago so I can't really tell if it will make a difference or not.


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## grapeman (Oct 19, 2006)

I've actually started to get requests to open the bottles for a couple giftees if they are looking to drink right away(they live next to me so they don't travel with an open bottle- at least not very far). They only have the little T-handle el-cheapo openers and the corks are near impossible to open with it. I've actually had a couple corks break in two before coming out. It's also hard on returns because some folks resort to the screwdriver push in the bottle trick. I don't even try to get those out again. This has just started about 6-8 months ago.


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## trashy (Oct 19, 2006)

We lost a rabbit-style opener to our first bottle, but I'm not sure that was cork-related. It *was* so tight that our CO2 needle didn't work, and it works on most commercially produced bottles/corks.

I'm considering trading in our bag of #9's for #8's......


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## NorthernWinos (Oct 19, 2006)

We use only #8 X 1.75...our wines don't stay around long enough to need a #9......these are just regular 'cork' corks....
Also, we only have a cheap-o Gilda corker, the #8's work great for us, we rarely have a melfunction...Tho, some bottles have a little bit bigger top, so the Gilda doesn't seat real well...we give those bottles away as well as the bottles that have flange tops....
I open some of the bottles...so the corks have to come out easy....We got one of those fancy corkers for Xmas last year that has leavers and a wire screw..it works great for me....but sure takes up lots of space on the shelf....*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## sangwitch (Oct 19, 2006)

This concerns me as I have some bottling to do very soon. I've been out of the game for a while, but I don't remember having any issues in the past. Of course, I don't remember what I used for corks either! Nor do I remember the past... never mind! 


I'd like to hear more people weigh in on this. Come to think of it, I still buy quite a bit of commercial wine (until I build my inventory back up at least) and I've broken a few cork screws the past couple years. Are we saying there's a noticeable difference between our corks and commercial corks?


any more comments?


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## masta (Oct 19, 2006)

I have been using the Fine Vine Wines Perfect Agglomerate #9 X 1.75 corks 2320for almost 2 years now and have had no issues.I have tried many different types of corks from the real ones to synthetic and found these corks to be the best hands down!


I liked these corks so much I purchased 1000 and had them imprinted with our "Valley Brew" name on them.


I also use a rabbit style corkscrew and it works quite well and don't find the corks difficult to remove at all.


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## Coaster (Oct 19, 2006)

I bottled my first batch with the #9s and man are they tight. I can't use the rabbit ear type orthe T-handle type. I use the screw in then press down on the two handle type. Once it "pops" it comes out fine, but getting started is a trick. I have to warn all my friends whne I give them a bottle.


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## sangwitch (Oct 19, 2006)

masta said:


> I liked these corks so much I purchased 1000 and had them imprinted with our "Valley Brew" name on them.




where did you order those where you can have them printed?


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## scotty (Oct 19, 2006)

trashy said:


> We lost a rabbit-style opener to our first bottle, but I'm not sure that was cork-related. It *was* so tight that our CO2 needle didn't work, and it works on most commercially produced bottles/corks.
> 
> I'm considering trading in our bag of #9's for #8's......


My rabbit corkscrew flew apart after a few uses. Maube some brands are just junk


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## masta (Oct 19, 2006)

sangwitch said:


> masta said:
> 
> 
> > I liked these corks so much I purchased 1000 and had them imprinted with our "Valley Brew" name on them.
> ...




Only at the best place to find all your winemaking toys!


http://www.finevinewines.com/Home-Wine-Making-Custom-Corks.asp


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## sangwitch (Oct 19, 2006)

Thanks Masta! Of course I looked there first. Of course I missed it somehow. Maybe I'll ask Santa to get me some for Xmas. 


I see now... the custom corks have their own link! I'm going on the wagon everyone. *Edited by: sangwitch *


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## sangwitch (Oct 19, 2006)

I'm off the wagon again.


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## Waldo (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm with Masta..I have been using George's corks exclusively and have never had a problem with them either. I use #9's for all of 750ml bottles and #8's for the 375ml*Edited by: Waldo *


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## grapeman (Oct 20, 2006)

I have to agree with Masta and Waldo. I am having problems with the #9 corks - however I only seem to have problems with the ones that have the grape clusters on. I have had to resort to getting them locally a couple times because I would forget to order them from George in time for bottling. His are tight which is a good thing- but they slide right out once started. The others seem to grip and like I said even some break in two before coming out. I've also had a couple bottles go bad (taste wise)with the "other" cork in them.


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## sangwitch (Oct 20, 2006)

appleman said:


> I am having problems with the #9 corks - however I only seem to have problems with the ones that have the grape clusters on.




So there's a difference between the #9 1.75 that have the grape clusters and the ones that have 'Fine Vine Wines' on them? I thought it was just the logo. 


I see the grape cluster logo corks are listed as 'Agglomerate' and the Fine Vine Wine ones are listed as 'Perfect Agglomerate'. Can someone explain the difference?


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## Funky Fish (Oct 20, 2006)

One type is "perfect" while the other is just so-so.


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## geocorn (Oct 20, 2006)

OK, gang, after talking with LD Carlson, Winexpert and the cork manufacturer, here is the scoop on tight corks. 






Due to a multitude of reasons that I will list below, home wine makers are at a disadvantage when corking compared to a commercial winery. As a result, the home wine maker will always have the potential to have tight corks, no matter which brand, type or size of cork they choose to use. As it turns out, the Nomacorc can be one of the most difficult corks to remove and it is only a #8. My "perfect" corks are a #9. As an aside, all of my #9 corks are the same cork. I charge you 1 penny more for the grape design as I am trying to build brand recognition.


As to what causes the problems, here is the skinny. The corks are coated to make them easier to insert and remove; however, the coating comes off as they are handled. A winery gets a bag of 1,000 which is full of SO2 and pours them in the corker. The corker inserts the cork and handling is minimal.


Most home wine makers do not use 1,000 corks at a time, so they purchase corks in bags of 30 or 100. These bags do not contain any SO2 (the cost is prohibitive), so the home wine maker needs to sanitize the cork, which involves handling. Then the cork needs to be put into the corker, which involves handling again. If you do not use all of thecorks from the bag, you put them back in the back, which involves handling, one more time. Each time you handle the cork, you remove some of the coating which leads to corks sticking in the bottle and "tight corks".


There are other factors at work which include using re-cycled bottles that may have imperfections in the neck, over soaking of the cork and storage of the corks.


The best advice I can give you is to reduce the handling of the corks as much as possible and store the corks in a cool, damp environment.


To reduce handling, use the following procedure when corking:


1. Remove only the number of corks from your bag of corks that you will need for this bottling.


2. Rinse or dipthe corks in a sulfite solution. 15-30 second exposure to the sulfite solution is sufficient. Do not boil, microwave or soak for an extended period as this will remove the coating and cause the cork to fall apart.


3. Place the rinsed corks in a bowl or on a paper towel to allow them to air-dry. (5-15 minutes)


4. Insert the cork in the bottle.


In addition, if you have the room for a cork humidor is a great idea. There is a post for how to do this, but I can not find it. As soon as I do, I will post it here.


I hope this helps with some of your frustrations over the tight corks. As pointed out above, this happens will all corks, not just mine. The advantage of my perfect corks is that they will not leak. I have also asked the cork manufacturer to increase the coating on all of my futere orders. We will see if that will reduce the problem further.*Edited by: geocorn *


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## sangwitch (Oct 20, 2006)

And there you have it. George, thanksfor going straight to the source for us.


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## trashy (Oct 20, 2006)

corks are supposed to be sanitized?





hmmmmmm.........


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## Waldo (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll get a picture later but my cork humidor is simply a 2 gallon plastic container with a smaller plastic container with holes punched in the lid and filled with kmeta sitting in it with the corks poured in on top of that. Pretty simple but very effective.


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## sangwitch (Oct 23, 2006)

So Waldo... it's just the fumes of the K-meta sanitizing the corks huh? That's a good idea.


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## Wade E (Oct 23, 2006)

As of right now I have not had any problems with corks but then again I
do not use the cheaper corks or the really expensive ones for that
matter. I do use corks with the (Grape Cluster ) on them that I
purchase from a local store in Waterbury, Ct. She has two kinds of
these Grape cluster corks and also different sizes in these also. The
ones I use are $.10 more than the cheaper ones a pce. which in total
are $.35 a pce. and I do soak them in k-meta and warm water for about 5
minutes and then insert them with my cheap double lever corker. There
are at least two different kinds of these double lever corkers that I
know of becuse my friend who got me interested in making wine had told
me that corking was very hard to do by yourself. When I did it for the
first time it was so easy I had to ask him what his problem was. I used
the #9 1.75 and he was using the # 8 1.75 and he asked how I got
the bigger corks in. He had a batch that was ready to bottle so I lent
him my corker and he couldnt believe how easy it was. He immediately
went out and bought this corker and the #9 corks and neither of us have
had a problem. N ext time I go there I'll ask what brand of corks they
are which will be soon as I only have about 7 corks left


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## earl (Oct 23, 2006)

Great Post George.


The only problem I have with my corks is where to put them all.


earl


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## Wade E (Oct 23, 2006)

The onlt problem I have with corks is restraining from pulling them out of the bottle and drinking the wine before its time!


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## lednugenna (Nov 19, 2006)

So, the question is ,which corker ARE you using? I would love to know so I can enjoy bottling my wine in th near future. 
Anne</font>
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## smurfe (Nov 19, 2006)

I occasionally have a tough one to get out but nothing really out of the ordinary. The perfect agglomerate corks are the only ones I have ever had a problem with though. I have been trying numerous different styles of corks to see which I prefer. I prefer the agglomerate corks for cost reasonsbut I am concerned about their half life. Can the home wine maker even get 100% real corks? I never see a vendor selling them. I see the tapered ones George sells and notice many sell the same but they appear to be used for carboys and jugs from seeing the sizes available.


I have used synthetics but have never experienced a problem removing them. I have not used Nomacorc as it seems most vendors only sell the 1.5" corks and I want 1.75" I have tried the Altec corks which are semi-synthetic with no issues thus far and am going to try a full synthetic on my next batch bottled but it is not the Nomacorc brand. I believe they are called Neocorc and are the brand a lot of wineries use. I had a sample bag of 100 given to me so we will see how they work.


In regards to the question I have to agree that soaking is what makes the agglomerate corks stick. I used to use a large plastic bowl I would place sanitizer in (S-Meta) and dump my corks in. I would do this right when I would start bottling and I would just leave them in the solution as I used them. I noticed it was tougher to uncork these bottled batches as those that I merely rinsed and sat on a paper towel or dumped in an empty bowl. I will say none so far have been "that" tough. But a few have been stubborn. I normally use one of those double handle cork screws but use the waiters type quite a bit as well. No real issue.


Smurfe


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## smurfe (Nov 19, 2006)

lednugenna said:


> So, the question is ,which corker ARE you using? I would love to know so I can enjoy bottling my wine in th near future.
> Anne




You can't really go wrong with either the Portuguese or the Italian floor corker. They both work very good from what everyone says. I have the Italian corker and love it, but I am sure if I had the Portuguese I would love it as well. But since I am married to an Italian, particularly a Sicilian, I better stick with the Italian






Smurfe


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## stormbringer (Nov 19, 2006)

I agree with smurfe that the Italian floor corker is the way to go. It can be quickly taken apart and stored in the original shipping contaner under a bed (etc.) until needed. You may want to ensure that the legs have a suitable soft-plastic type cap installed to prevent scratching your floor. My corker did not arrive with the caps. They are easily bought at just about any local hardware store and are inexpensive.Be sure to clean the iris area of this capperbefore storage. I read in the forums that -- due to the design -- K-meta can accumulate in this area during use and may cause some sort of corrosionover a period of time.Better safe than sorry.


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## Coaster (Dec 1, 2006)

I broke a bottle the other nite pulling a cork from my Piesporter using a waiter type corkscrew =/ New blue 750ml Hock style bottle. #9 FineVineWine cork. I had soaked these corks a few mins in the vinator solution while I corked the whole batch. Next time I'll spray and let them rest on foil.*Edited by: Coaster *


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 1, 2006)

We use a cheap-o Gilda corker...we use #8 X 1.75 corks....we never let our wine stay in the bottles too long, 1 1/2+ years is the maximum ..so far.

We had used #9 X 1.75 and had a bit of a problem on some bigger topped bottles.

With the Gilda you can not use the flange top bottles...and might have a problem with some of the bigger tops.

We do the bottling together....I fill with a cheap-o gravity filler, my honey runs the Gilda, I center the Gilda on the top of the bottle and he drives the cork in....by then the next bottle is full and we repeat....


We can do a 5 and 6 gallon batch in no time...I have everything laid out ready to go....

He does do something with vegetable oil on the iris...that's his department, so am not sure why he does that.

We have no complaints on the Gilda, but like I said we do it together...think it works better with two people running that one.

We have very limited space here, so storing a floor corker and bottle drying tree, as well as other much needed equipment is not in our cards...Wish we'd have been making wine when we built this house....things would have been a bit different.


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## geocorn (Dec 1, 2006)

I have talked with the manufacturer and we are going to increase the coating, slightly. I don't want to overdue it as the corks might not want to stay in the bottle. We are almost out of corks, so I have 35,000 on order with the additional coating. They should be in next week.


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## OldWino1 (Dec 2, 2006)

This is a link to a kit vendors site just more information 


http://www.rjspagnols.com/resource_view.asp?HandoutID=14


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## Waldo (Dec 3, 2006)

Northern Winos said:


> We use a cheap-o Gilda corker...we use #8 X 1.75 corks....we never let our wine stay in the bottles too long, 1 1/2+ years is the maximum ..so far.
> 
> We had used #9 X 1.75 and had a bit of a problem on some bigger topped bottles.
> 
> ...




NW, I would like to find out what Bert is doing with the vegetable oil on the iris. I would be concerned that this might get transferred to the wine when the cork is inserted on my floor corker but I am not familiar with the corker you are using.


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## PolishWineP (Dec 3, 2006)

Waldo said: "_NW, I would like to find out what Bert is doing with the vegetable oil_ ..."
I too would like to know what Bert is doing over there with the vegetable oil. No wonder he's always too tired to bottle here.



He's bottling at *your* place!


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## NorthernWinos (Dec 3, 2006)

Bert hasn't been here yet....we've been meeting at the fork in the river...
Somewhere on the instructions it said to oil part of the apparatus...?


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## sangwitch (Dec 3, 2006)

I scored my floor corker from a friend so it didn't come with any documentation. I can feel an oily substance on the iris so I'm also curious about the oil. I guess I can ask Bert when he comes over to help me bottle. 


anyone have maintenance info on the corkers?


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## runningqrtr (Dec 6, 2006)

I am new to wine making and even newer to the forum, but I have found something that helps me with "tight"corks. Most of the timeI use a waiter style cork screw. I have found that if I insert the cork screw right at the edge of the cork so the screw penetrates the side of the cork the cork comes right out. I hope this helps.


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## Dean (Dec 6, 2006)

It is good to oil/grease the iris on your corkers. You can get a food grade grease that is meant for them to keep the in tip top shape. I light application when the iris is fully uncompressed is all that is needed after every corking run.


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## stormbringer (Dec 6, 2006)

I took the advise from the link posted by OldWino, and the cork humidor suggested by Waldo. Bottled 30 with#9 x 1.75 agglomerated corksthis afternoonusing the "dry cork" method. Seems to be a good plan.Will find out in 4 weeks if this solves the "tight cork" issue. 


In a previous post it was mentioned a coating on thecorks that will repel/bead liquid.I've never noticed it but it's definitely there. It may be a moot point but I'm wondering if maybe some of us are causing our own tight cork dilemmas due to improper handling of the corks during the corking procedure?


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## stormbringer (Jan 7, 2007)

As mentioned in my previous post on Dec.6--I have waited one month since the bottling to find out if the "dry cork" method makes any difference. As far as I can tell byopening the first bottle -- it works. It appears that the afore mentioned cork humidor method has prevented the issue of the cork being too tight.


I'm going towait to saythat the dry cork method definitely is the cure to the tight cork problemwhile I let the wine age. But it's pretty encouraging due to the difference it makes in the ease of removing the cork.


I have a batch that I clarified todayandexpect to bottle in about14 days.I'll use the dry cork method again.


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## Wade E (Jan 7, 2007)

Fingers crossed.


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## sangwitch (Jan 8, 2007)

another trick posted somewhere in the forum (by George maybe?)... before inserting your cork screw to open the bottle, take the pointy tip and run it around the seam between the cork and the bottle lip. It seems a little seal forms there with these corks and it helps a bit to score this area with something sharp. *Edited by: sangwitch *


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## Bill (Jan 11, 2007)

Wino:
I am going to get a corker and I am only going to cork a few
as I age in gallon glass. I don't want to spend a lot of money
on a corker, will I be happy with a hand corker with #8 corks
Thanks


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## NorthernWinos (Jan 11, 2007)

Bill said:


> Wino:
> I am going to get a corker and I am only going to cork a few
> as I age in gallon glass.  I don't want to spend a lot of money
> on a corker, will I be happy with a hand corker with #8 corks
> Thanks



We use a Gilda hand corker with #8 corks. We rarely have a problem since we went to the #8's...however we can't use the bottles with the flanges, so just set those aside.


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