# Fanleaf virus or herbicide damage



## Dennis Griffith (Jul 16, 2018)

When I first noticed this I thought I had got some drift from a local farmer or the power company clearing right of ways. But I investigated further after find some cane deformation. I'm looking to hear others thoughts on this. Below are some images:


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## GreginND (Jul 16, 2018)

Looks like 2,4-D or Dicamba damage to me. What is growing around you? And have you used any lawn chemicals?


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 16, 2018)

No lawn chemicals/broad leaf herbicide. I do use glyphosate (carefully) for weed management. That also what I thought when I first saw the leaf deformation, but then I came across a vine that was oddly shaped. I'd never seen that type of growth, so I investigated. I found some .edu papers on cane abnormalities being associated with viruses like fan leaf. So I thought I'd reach out to more brains than mine. I surely hope it isn't a virus cause those are not really treatable.


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## Johny99 (Jul 16, 2018)

Can’t weigh in on what it is, but is it on all vines? If not, my virus experience is use separate tools until you know for sure. I gradually spread what I think is leaf roll with my pruning shears, one vine at a time. I just took out what I hope is the last sick vine. Bought a cheap pair of loppers to cut it down and tossed them.

PS. You might try your local ag extension. They were a big help to me.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 16, 2018)

Johny99 said:


> Can’t weigh in on what it is, but is it on all vines? If not, my virus experience is use separate tools until you know for sure. I gradually spread what I think is leaf roll with my pruning shears, one vine at a time. I just took out what I hope is the last sick vine. Bought a cheap pair of loppers to cut it down and tossed them.
> 
> PS. You might try your local ag extension. They were a big help to me.



It's only on a few vines. I typically sterilize my tools with bleach water anyway. I've read that the GFLV is a big problem in New York. Guess where I buy my vines from.


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## Johny99 (Jul 16, 2018)

Ouch. Not guaranteed virus free? Let’s hope for spray drift from the heavens. 

A brutal idea I tried on my Temp. Yes a different virus. Prune one back to a couple of nodes. See what grows back. Mine, had the same symptoms. Maybe not scientific but I was frustrated.


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## BigH (Jul 16, 2018)

The first 2 pics look like 2,4-D damage to me. I'm not sure what to say about the cane deformation. I see a touch of that just about every season in my vineyard, but it is usually pretty rare overall. Doesn't register as a serious problem for me compared to all the other headaches that are going on.

H


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 17, 2018)

Johny99 said:


> Ouch. Not guaranteed virus free? Let’s hope for spray drift from the heavens.
> 
> A brutal idea I tried on my Temp. Yes a different virus. Prune one back to a couple of nodes. See what grows back. Mine, had the same symptoms. Maybe not scientific but I was frustrated.



I 've decided to do a couple of things. First keep a log of what I see on which vines so that I can compare with next year. In the meantime I will be more diligent in a bleach bath on my cutting tool between vines. I hope I'm not over reacting but GFLV scares the 'heck' out of me. To combat such a thing would mean to pull the vine and burn it, plus remove the soil and fumigate. And that is at a bare minimal. California has the biggest issue with this, so I would have to study how they manage it. I don't think we have the issue yet in Ohio, at least I don't see it reported yet.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 17, 2018)

BigH said:


> The first 2 pics look like 2,4-D damage to me. I'm not sure what to say about the cane deformation. I see a touch of that just about every season in my vineyard, but it is usually pretty rare overall. Doesn't register as a serious problem for me compared to all the other headaches that are going on.
> 
> H



I thought the same about it when I first saw it. Then I decided to Google it, and then the fun began. I hope it's like Goggling a pain to find all these illnesses and then worry about it to only find nothing in the end. Like you said, for once I'm hoping for 2,3-D damage.


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## TomC (Jul 17, 2018)

I concur with herbicide drift damage in the first two pictures. The third picture enlarged shows some signs of Downey Mildew on the underside of leaves. The shoots can become infected and cause deformed shoots.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 17, 2018)

TomC said:


> I concur with herbicide drift damage in the first two pictures. The third picture enlarged shows some signs of Downey Mildew on the underside of leaves. The shoots can become infected and cause deformed shoots.



I am going to spray again today, but I have been hitting them with mancozeb. Immunox, captan, and Serenade (plus some bug killer) on almost a weekly basis. I do have a lot of fungal issues living here in the Ohio valley region. I have apple trees as well that I have to fight with as well. I'm adding dormant oil into the mix next year just like I do with the trees. Today I will use Immunox, Serenade, Sevin, and maybe throw in some Neem oil. Scratch that, I just noticed the start of veraisin this morning, so I must hold off on the Immunox. So that means Serenade, Neem, and Sevin.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 17, 2018)

PS. Thanks for all the responses. All help is welcome.


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## TomC (Jul 17, 2018)

Know the pain. I'm in the South/Central Susquehanna Valley area and this year has been extremely difficult staying ahead of disaster. Everytime I spray, it rains or it's hot and humid. My orchard has been hit with fireblight, again. Fungal diseases are always a battle in the vineyard. Good Luck!


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## garymc (Jul 18, 2018)

I grow muscadines. Never heard of fanleaf virus. I always thought this was drift, since I'm 30 feet from corn, beans, and wheat. Now I wonder.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 18, 2018)

garymc said:


> I grow muscadines. Never heard of fanleaf virus. I always thought this was drift, since I'm 30 feet from corn, beans, and wheat. Now I wonder.View attachment 49812



From what I've read (Cornell paper), GFLV has not been reported in MO. And being that close to an actively farmed field, it could be herbicide. Does the farmer use broad leaf to burn down the fence rows? They mostly use glyphosate to burn down the crop areas, and I can't find anything that says glyphosate causes this sort of leaf deformation. The closest field to me is about 200 yards, but it could still be herbicide (2,4-D) that did my damage. I do use glyphosate, in a limited fashion, to manage weeds. It would ease mine mind to know that that it could cause this.


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## GreginND (Jul 18, 2018)

There is now 2,4-D resistant Corn, Soybeans and Cotton being planted. So be prepared for this problem to only get worse. Dicamba-ready crops are also coming.


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## GreginND (Jul 18, 2018)

Dennis Griffith said:


> From what I've read (Cornell paper), GFLV has not been reported in MO. And being that close to an actively farmed field, it could be herbicide. Does the farmer use broad leaf to burn down the fence rows? They mostly use glyphosate to burn down the crop areas, and I can't find anything that says glyphosate causes this sort of leaf deformation. The closest field to me is about 200 yards, but it could still be herbicide (2,4-D) that did my damage. I do use glyphosate, in a limited fashion, to manage weeds. It would ease mine mind to know that that it could cause this.



In my experience, glyphosate damage does not look quite like the fern-leave pattern of 2,4-D.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 18, 2018)

GreginND said:


> There is now 2,4-D resistant Corn, Soybeans and Cotton being planted. So be prepared for this problem to only get worse. Dicamba-ready crops are also coming.



Field Watch has a site that you can register your sensitive crop/location with. I don't know how effective it is, but it's something. At least if you are register and you get massive damage, you have that fact to help in your complaint. If you get damage, I'd also reach out to the local extension office. And to any farmers that you think may be involved.

http://www.fieldwatch.com/


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 18, 2018)

GreginND said:


> In my experience, glyphosate damage does not look quite like the fern-leave pattern of 2,4-D.



Did you see the images I posted? Did they look like 2,4-D damage? If it is, I need to discover the source. It would have to drift at least 150 yards or more through tree lines. I am getting this on some of the new growth. Here's another image.


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## garymc (Jul 19, 2018)

2,4-D can drift a mile. I don't even make any attempt to find out where it comes from. The only serious thing it has done to me (I think) is to delay my crop. Not a good thing on the northern edge of the zone. Last year there was a lot of dicamba damage all around me.


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## BigH (Jul 20, 2018)

Dennis Griffith said:


> I am getting this on some of the new growth. Here's another image.



That definitely looks like 2,4-D damage. The Iowa State viticulture specialist recommends *not* pruning off damaged tissue. He claims that it increases the metabolism of the herbicide.

My edelweiss got hit pretty hard last year, but it still produced a large crop. I would have thinned it a bit more in hindsight. A lot of the canes did not harden off adequately in the fall. I thought that would set me back this year, but I seem to have a decent crop coming along and the vines look like left field at Wrigley.

H


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 20, 2018)

BigH said:


> That definitely looks like 2,4-D damage. The Iowa State viticulture specialist recommends *not* pruning off damaged tissue. He claims that it increases the metabolism of the herbicide.
> 
> My edelweiss got hit pretty hard last year, but it still produced a large crop. I would have thinned it a bit more in hindsight. A lot of the canes did not harden off adequately in the fall. I thought that would set me back this year, but I seem to have a decent crop coming along and the vines look like left field at Wrigley.
> 
> H



I don't prune off damaged leaves/canes typically. I'm of the mind set that if the vine wants to get rid of it, it will. So I don't let the cosmetics of it bother me. I actually am relieved to think that it is herbicide damage instead of something like GFLV.


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## treesaver (Jul 21, 2018)

I've got several concord vines that look like that every summer. They grow ot in the spring looking some what normal, then take on that fan look to all the new growth. I assumed it was herbacide damage, now I wonder. A much more serious issue has manifested here of late, though. Had a neighbor to the west die this spring, and the fellow that rented his ground quick bought it....a long story. He had it sprayed about a month ago, with an airplane. Since that has happened, Ive got a bunch of trees that have the leaves burned on the west side, and all my grapes on the place, with a few exceptions, have had all their growing tips bunt off. I am really worried about the second leaf verona that was training to trellis, as they have just been sitting there, no new growth, and the ends that were being trained to TWC, some have been burned back ten inches or a bit more. I really don't know what my next move will be, but I'm considering contacting a lawyer, but dispise lawyers as much as I do garden pests, so I may be out of this game yet. Sad state of affaires, considering all the work I've put in getting to this point. I didn't mean to hyjack your thread with my problems!


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 21, 2018)

treesaver said:


> I've got several concord vines that look like that every summer. They grow ot in the spring looking some what normal, then take on that fan look to all the new growth. I assumed it was herbacide damage, now I wonder. A much more serious issue has manifested here of late, though. Had a neighbor to the west die this spring, and the fellow that rented his ground quick bought it....a long story. He had it sprayed about a month ago, with an airplane. Since that has happened, Ive got a bunch of trees that have the leaves burned on the west side, and all my grapes on the place, with a few exceptions, have had all their growing tips bunt off. I am really worried about the second leaf verona that was training to trellis, as they have just been sitting there, no new growth, and the ends that were being trained to TWC, some have been burned back ten inches or a bit more. I really don't know what my next move will be, but I'm considering contacting a lawyer, but dispise lawyers as much as I do garden pests, so I may be out of this game yet. Sad state of affaires, considering all the work I've put in getting to this point. I didn't mean to hyjack your thread with my problems!



I'd be ticked off. What did he spray? I would do a few things. Here, I'd contact the township trustees, the county commissioners, and the sheriff's office to file a complaint. That all gets the issue on record. Do you have any sort of agricultural extension office? Not sure about Kansas, but I'd get their assessment on the cause as they could be an 'expert witness', if you go to trial. And if you feel ready for it, contact a lawyer and show him the ground work you've laid for a case and any results you have from any agricultural experts you can get to look at it. A big question is, 'Will you lose revenue due to his actions?'


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## Johny99 (Jul 22, 2018)

Wow! I’d at least make a phone call or write a nasty letter. I second letting the county/township know. It may be that he just didn’t know any better, and if you let him know he’ll not repeat. I live in a fruit growing r3gion converting to wine grapes. Both of my neighbor orchards are very open to communication. Of course, we also have strong case law for associated damage.


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## treesaver (Jul 22, 2018)

Thanks for yor replys, guys. I've been sitting here mulling just what to do. I moved into this area about fifteen years ago, and one of the reasons I bought it was the CRP and grasslands around the place. I figured I was pretty safe, but can't do anything about when ground changes hands. The neighbor that bought the place mentioned, is young and gung ho, so I'm more than worried that it will get worse before it gets better. if he tears out the CRP across the road from me and plants beans or corn, and uses dicambia or 24D ready crops, My grapes will be toast, and thats the simple fact. The vines are a hobby, not a source of income, which makes it harder to scream damages, so I will visit the county extension agent tomorrow and see where it goes. Thank you for the suggestions. Lee


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 22, 2018)

garymc said:


> 2,4-D can drift a mile. I don't even make any attempt to find out where it comes from. The only serious thing it has done to me (I think) is to delay my crop. Not a good thing on the northern edge of the zone. Last year there was a lot of dicamba damage all around me.



If it can drift a mile and damage grapes like this, what is it doing to us?


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## garymc (Jul 24, 2018)

It's a plant growth hormone. Good question. Maybe something, maybe nothing.


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## Zintrigue (Jul 24, 2018)

Curious potential grape grower here. Are the grapes themselves affected, or just the vines and leaves?


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 24, 2018)

Zintrigue said:


> Curious potential grape grower here. Are the grapes themselves affected, or just the vines and leaves?



Just the leaves, but untreated, it will affect your vine health and yield (grapes). Depending on the disease, it can kill the vine and spread to others. Good vine health = good grapes = good vine.


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## grapeman (Jul 25, 2018)

Sorry to check in so late here, life has been a perpetual soap opera for the last year or so for my family. 

I would almost guarantee it is 2,4-d or dicamba damage. The finger-like projections on the leaf edges are a tell-tale sign of it. It is funny how some vines can be affected and others not. The wind is unpredictable and you only need to watch a smoke test in a wind tunnel to see that it generally travels in streams and not one big fog. That would explain why the area was not blanketed with damage.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 25, 2018)

grapeman said:


> Sorry to check in so late here, life has been a perpetual soap opera for the last year or so for my family.
> 
> I would almost guarantee it is 2,4-d or dicamba damage. The finger-like projections on the leaf edges are a tell-tale sign of it. It is funny how some vines can be affected and others not. The wind is unpredictable and you only need to watch a smoke test in a wind tunnel to see that it generally travels in streams and not one big fog. That would explain why the area was not blanketed with damage.



I was hoping for herbicide damage vs. GFLV. I thought it was that from the beginning, but I came across some articles that showed some GFLV leaves and their looked similar. That unnerved me a little as that is a nasty disease and I want no part of it. I've seen the pictures of CA where they have stripped out the vines and then left nothing. I don't know if they are fumigating the soil or just letting it sit idle. I understand GFLV can stay in the soil for 2 - 3 years. Thanks for you response. I like your site.


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## KevinL (Jul 25, 2018)

I've got some random vines that are coming up with the exact same symptoms as yours. Curling yellowing leaves along with fan leaf looking ones for newer growth. My nearest farm field is a mile away, and there are plenty of trees to act as wind breaks between here and there.

I know my Neighbor uses 2-4 D herbicide, but only uses local sprays close to the ground. I've let him know that 2-4 D is deadly to the vines, so he's pretty careful with it. I'll check with him to see if he sprayed a little higher of the ground on a windier day. I'm thinking that perhaps some of the landscapers for the commercial property behind the vineyard are using weed and feed that might have drifted over. I may have to send a polite letter asking them to go easy on the sprays closer to the vineyard. 

You're right about it being pretty random. It's just 4 out of 200 or so that are showing any signs of herbicide damage. It must be such a small amount getting in or I think I'd be seeing wider damage. But I suppose it just takes a small amount to turn a healthy vine into a sickly looking thing.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 26, 2018)

I worry about the systemic effect of the 2,4-d. Just a few leaves is one thing, but if it has a negative effect on the entire vine, that is bad. So the question is, how much is too much? I suppose time will tell. And will it be residual enough to affect the vine next year?


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## treesaver (Aug 7, 2018)

Well I thought I'd bring you up to speed on my damage. I have two two leaf verona vines that are toast, and expect to prolly lose most of the rest. It has been about five weeks since the spraying, and my older concord and cataba vines look bad. One vine in the middle of my nortons is dead, and there has been no new growth on most of the vines. I found out tonight what they sprayed, 20 lbs of chaparral and 41 gallon of freelexx, neither of which I have ever heard of before. Talked to the Co Extention lady, she said to file a complaint with the Ks Agriculture/ pesticide application complaint organization. She said they will come out and take tissue samples to cofirm the damage, and we will go from there! Wish me luck!


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 7, 2018)

treesaver said:


> Well I thought I'd bring you up to speed on my damage. I have two two leaf verona vines that are toast, and expect to prolly lose most of the rest. It has been about five weeks since the spraying, and my older concord and cataba vines look bad. One vine in the middle of my nortons is dead, and there has been no new growth on most of the vines. I found out tonight what they sprayed, 20 lbs of chaparral and 41 gallon of freelexx, neither of which I have ever heard of before. Talked to the Co Extention lady, she said to file a complaint with the Ks Agriculture/ pesticide application complaint organization. She said they will come out and take tissue samples to cofirm the damage, and we will go from there! Wish me luck!



I do wish you luck. Your issue could easily be ours. I have been watching a plane that appears to be a crop duster type flying in the area. I hope they don't do aerial drops of broad leaf killers and they are only dusting with pesticides. Good luck with the filing!


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## Johny99 (Aug 7, 2018)

Good luck in your quest. Quite a bad scenario you describe.


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## Karl (Aug 8, 2018)

GreginND said:


> Looks like 2,4-D or Dicamba damage to me. What is growing around you? And have you used any lawn chemicals?



Agree, that is 2,4,D damage. 2,4,D can easily drift, so farmers or residential sprays can affect you even if the neighbors are far away. 

Also keep in mind that some varieties are sensitive to 2,4,D while others are not, and it also affects new growth, so old growth is unaffected. Glycophosphate is oily/heavy and does not drift very well, besides if you spray it on green leaves the vine is toast. I typically have lots of 2,4,D damage since i grow my grapes in the city and careless home owners use the stuff on windy days. I can smell it in the wind now.


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## Karl (Aug 8, 2018)

I should add that your 3rd picture of the "deformed" stem doesn't look deformed to me, i see that all the time when the tips of some shoots gets damaged and a Y forms as a result.


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 8, 2018)

Karl said:


> I should add that your 3rd picture of the "deformed" stem doesn't look deformed to me, i see that all the time when the tips of some shoots gets damaged and a Y forms as a result.



Thanks for your input. I suppose I was a little paranoid about having GFLV. We put so much work into growing vines and something like a virus or drifting herbicide just makes us a little 'unhinged'..


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