# Artificial/Natural Flavors Added to Commercial Wines?



## NoSnob (Nov 28, 2011)

The science of creating artificial flavors chemically imitating natural flavors has greatly expanded in the last few years. We know that those flavors are making their way from the labs into the food we buy at the grocery and the food we eat out at restaurants. We also know that the very cheapest of wines (for decades) have used all kinds of artificial flavors mixed with cheap grape concentrate, grain alcohol, and coloring agents to produce the an abominable concoction called "wine". (e.g., MD20, Annie Greensprings, Thunderbird, etc.?) All this is pretty much a known factor.

Now, I wonder about our commercial wines, including juice we buy in kit wines. A Google search reveals many wineries saying "We do not use any artificial flavoring" or something to that effect. Pardon my skepticism when I really wonder how many commercial wineries can truthfully say that and what it really means when we scrutinize their words. Far more wineries do not even bother to address the issue in public. Hmmm

First of all, labs can now create flavors that, at the molecular level, are identical to natural ingredients. Perhaps they could legally argue that they are not adding "artificial" ingredients since they are only enhancements completely equivalent to natural flavor, like adding oak chips or barrel aging. 
Second, wineries could add certain agents whose effect is very subtle and not otherwise detectable. For example, some flavoring agents add initial flavors as "top notes, " detectable and positively experienced initially but short-lived, creating the desire for more (as in drink more, drink more). 
Third, in the food industry artificial flavors are used to create an instant like and bond for the product, a desire to repeat the flavor continually. Yes, that's not unlike what happens during an addiction process.

Is it possible that juice we buy in kits as well as that used by commercial wineries has been adjusted, enhanced, or doctored, albeit subltly, in this manner? 
Is there any way we consumers could verify juice/wine's content in this regard?
How do federal regulations affect this process?

I didn't mean for this to be so long!
NS


----------



## Runningwolf (Nov 28, 2011)

I doubt if most wineries dealing in grape wines use any artificial flavors. On the other hand I've seen wineries that have large amount of fruit wines and I have had many doubts on whether they are really pressing fruit or blending fruit flavors with a mild grape juice.


----------



## buddy (Nov 28, 2011)

A lot of people who make fruit wines from kits think that the concentrate is actually made from the fruit in question, but if they look at the ingredient list on the box they will see that the concentrate is primary (if not totally) made from grape juice.


----------



## JohnT (Nov 29, 2011)

In defense of Thunderbird (and I agree that it is total swill not fit for a pig), the wine is not made with a whole lot of articicial flavors or colors. If it were, then it would not taste like s&*t!

I believe that thunderbird is a fortified wine that was mass produced in the most in-expensive way possible. It was the intent of the Gallo brothers to make Thunderbird (and Night Train) the "McDonnalds of wine", but did not count on the fact that most consumers have taste buds.

Keep in mind the times. The country was just getting over prohibition, and the population at large had no pallet for wine. quite simply, in the early 50's, a company could get away with selling total swill. 

Keep in mind a couple of other things. First, The Gallos were grapes growers. The cheapest thing to them were the low grade, high yeild grapes they produced. Second, The wine was developed in the 1950's when artificial colors and flavors were relatively new and expensive (compared to the Gallo's cheapest grapes). Finally, at that point in time, the Gallos fermented and "aged" their wine in enormus concrete swimming pools. 

This is the level of how cheap they would go to produce the maximum volume of product. They really did not give a damn about flavor, just if a product could sell. In other words, they would not bother to try and change the color or flavor of their wine. It would simply add to the total production costs. 

Also, keep in mind that this is not a slant against Gallo. Today, they have embraced the times and strive for quality. It is just funny how things were back "in the day".


----------



## Wade E (Nov 29, 2011)

Well said John!!!!


----------



## mmadmikes1 (Nov 30, 2011)

I two would like to stand up for thunderbird. I have many found memories of getting pie eyes in my teens drinking this fluid. Also had a wonderful effect on teenage girls


----------



## Midwest Vintner (Nov 30, 2011)

The label should say if there is any artificial flavors and/or coloring. I'm not sure if there is anything you can add that WON'T show up on the label as far as that goes. Only things like bentonite can be used without putting on the label. If you us chitosan, you have to put a "shell fish" warning on it!

Here is a gov't link to what is and isn't legal
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.2&idno=27

I can tell you that we ONLY use fruit in our wines. It is why they taste mostly like the original fruit. Although, the berry wines and pecan have some complexity. I get, "The pineapple wine tastes just like a fresh pineapple," all the time.


----------



## robie (Nov 30, 2011)

I recently read that Thunderbird is a mixture of lemonade and cheap wine. Haven't tried it lately to confirm that taste. All I remember is that years ago it was so bad, when I took a drink, it made me shutter.

Same shuttering response came from drinking Ripple.

I agree that it will be very hard (and punitive) for a winery to add something, which is not listed on the label.


----------



## JohnT (Nov 30, 2011)

robie said:


> I recently read that Thunderbird is a mixture of lemonade and cheap wine. Haven't tried it lately to confirm that taste. All I remember is that years ago it was so bad, when I took a drink, it made me shutter.
> 
> Same shuttering response came from drinking Ripple.
> 
> I agree that it will be very hard (and punitive) for a winery to add something, which is not listed on the label.



Nope. Its just fortified wine.


----------



## NoSnob (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for the CFR citation. As I read them they apply only to those wineries who are "permitees" meaning they have a federal permit to sell their wine. That means that as home winemakers we don't have to abide by any of those requirements. That said, I still wonder if a commercial winery can use small amounts of substances that molecularly are identical to natural ingredients, even if they did not originate from grapes per se. 

If I understand the science, commercial winemakers could argue that they use no artificial ingredients and still add certain substances to their wine. I mean in addition to what they now do this with sulfites, clearing/fining agents, oak chips/marbles/barrels, etc.

Perhaps this is not the best location to discuss this but I remain interested in our board's opinions.

NS


----------



## robie (Nov 30, 2011)

NoSnob said:


> Perhaps this is not the best location to discuss this but I remain interested in our board's opinions.
> NS




It is the perfect place to discuss this issue and it is something that many of us think about.

A couple of years ago I read a report of a wine tasting in Canada. Apparently, the year (vintage) being samples was from a particularly bad year for grapes but in the opinion of the judge, the wine tasted great. His conclusion was that the wine had to have been doctored up and he was most upset over this.

He was probably right! 

Now there are lots of additives one can add to a wine to improve different aspects of it, like tannins and oak, among others. They don't change the flavor of the wine as much as they add new and different flavors to it. The wine behind the oak remains the same (this might be argued for tannins).

Fining agents are not added necessarily to enhance the flavor, rather to remove substances from the wine. However, some of the chemicals from it will likely always remain with the wine. In Canada now, the bottle has to say the wine contains fish products if a fining agent, which comes from fish parts, was utilized.

I hope the day doesn't come too soon that artificially flavored wine comes on the market. Can you imagine a label, "This bottle contains artificial Cabernet flavoring"...

Don't ever say it can't happen.


----------



## Rocky (Nov 30, 2011)

mmadmikes1 said:


> I two would like to stand up for thunderbird. I have many found memories of getting pie eyes in my teens drinking this fluid. Also had a wonderful effect on teenage girls



Forgive him Father, for he knows not what he says!

Don't you be disparaging my _Thunderbird!_ I have some (not so) fond memories in my teen years when we'd have a case at a party. Oh, the "techni-colored yawns" and your head the next day. It was CHEAP! And as Mike alludes to above, "Flowers and candy are nice, but liquor's quicker!"

I go way back and _Thunderbird_ provided my first in depth exposure to classic verse: 

What's the word? Thunderbird!
What's the reason? Grapes in season!
What's the price? Fifty twice 
minus one makes 99 cents a full quart.


----------



## robie (Dec 1, 2011)

Believe me I tried, but just never wanted to get stoned well enough to drink that stuff. It is without a doubt - awful!

Do they still make it?


----------



## buddy (Dec 2, 2011)

It sounds like Thunderbird is the American equivalent to Craklin Rosie wine that was sold in Canada.
Neil Diamond had a number one hit singing about this wine.
The Wikipedia entry suggests that it was a homemade wine but I seem recall that it was sold in liquor stores. Hence the line in the song "Cracklin' Rose, you're a store bought woman"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracklin'_Rosie


----------



## JohnT (Dec 2, 2011)

Never knew the song was about wine. Fascinating.


----------

