# Newbie apple wine question



## CajunTim (Oct 25, 2006)

Hiya all, 
My name is Tim and I am a newbie to wine making. I have been wanting to make wine now for about 6 years or so, but things just seem to keep coming up in life when your younger. Now that I am a little older and things are settled down &lt; for now anyway &gt;




I will check off this box of my “Things to do before I die” list.
I will be trying a one gallon organic apple juice from the health store soon. Although I have read most of this site and most of Jack Kellers site I may have a question or two along the way. Hope some of you might be able to help. 
Some questions seem to have answers I am not sure of just yet. Only question I have right now is two recipes for apple have all the same ingredients, but one calls for yeast to be sprinkled on top and the other calls for a yeast starter. Is apple juice hard to get kicked off, or will they both do ok? I live if FL. It’s a little warmer here.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give a little background first.
Thanks, Tim


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## Waldo (Oct 25, 2006)

Welcome Tim and glad you are finally getting a chance to pursue a passion. They are plenty of friendly folk on here to help you along the way. I have made a couple of batches of Apple wine and for all of my country wines I make a yeast starter. My thinking is that it gives the yeasty beasties a running start on doing what they are designed to do and why take a chance on another method failing. Thats just my two cents on the subject. Good luck and keep us updated on how it goes. We love pictures too......loads of pictures



*Edited by: Waldo *


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## CajunTim (Oct 25, 2006)

Thanks Waldo,
I think I will go that route. I better get going on it soon if I want to start by Sat. I will keep yall posted. And Pics? Now there’s something I can do. Have cam, can shoot.



Ok, sure more questions to come. If this turns out to be a joy, I will be contacting Gorge soon after to send down a 6 gal equipment kit. Thanks again, Tim


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## masta (Oct 25, 2006)

Welcome Tim,


When you get your 6 gal equipment kit and wine kit sprinkling the yeast on top is the best and foolproof. I re-hydrated my yeast for quite a while since I thought this was best but have found out that the sprinkling method works perfectly every time.


Grape juice is the perfect medium for fermentation and the important thing to remember when fermenting anything other than grapes is to add the proper nutrients which you will find in a good recipe.


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## grapeman (Oct 25, 2006)

Welcome Tim,

Either method works, I just find it easier like Masta says to just sprinkle it on top. It is usually off to a great start in just 12-24 hours. Never have had an apple stall out either. Don't rack too soon to the gallon jug(assuming you have a gallon and a half or two gallon pail to start it in). Apple tends to be very vigorous at fermenting. What yeast are you going to use?


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## Wade E (Oct 25, 2006)

Welcome Cajun Tim. We would be happy to answer any questions you have. I
just stabilized and clarified a batch of apple wine and it is still in
the 6 gallon carbot getting a little more age on it. I added mulling
spisec a few cinnamon sticks in it and some chopped raisins for extra
body.I then sweetened it up after stabilizing it with Senaca apple
juice concentrate.


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## CajunTim (Oct 25, 2006)

Masta, thanks for the info. I need to keep this in mind also. I need to get back and look at your “Demo” on yeast starting. I will try the sprinkling on top when I try a kit wine.
<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
Appleman, I have a two gallon pail to start in and a gallon jug to rack to. I will be using Red Star Champagne yeast. Should be very cool to see it do its thing.

Wade, I never thought to put in cinnamon sticks in it. I may need try it and the raisins in my next batch. Yea, I might have to sweeten up some. I do like my wines a bit on the sweet side. Thanks to all the wine gurus on here, I think I am going to like this a lot!


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## Wade E (Oct 25, 2006)

You could also sweeten it up with a sugar water. I forgot to mention
that I also used a little brown sugar with the Senaca to back sweeten
wich was someone elses idea, I think it was Ramona but not sure and it
sounded like it would be a great addition to the spiced apple. Good
Luck.

Wade


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## CajunTim (Oct 26, 2006)

OK, I decided to start the apple juice wine this afternoon. I sanitized everything and added the juice, sugar, acid blend, tannin, yeast nutrient and crushed campden. Stirred well until all was dissolved. Will let it set covered with a paper towel and rubber band and add pectic enzyme in 12 hours. I am going to work on the yeast starter to night and get it ready to go for a bit later. OK, so lets see what happens in a day or two. Oh, maybe I can put a pic.


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## pkcook (Oct 26, 2006)

Hey Tim,
Welcome to the forum. Good luck on the apple wine. Once you get this mastered, you can make some sparkling apple wine. Here is a link to the process: http://www.finevinewines.com//Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1222


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## Wade E (Oct 26, 2006)

Hope all goes well there.


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## CajunTim (Oct 26, 2006)

I will try this pic. Day1














Well.....tryed, but the upload would not take.



Sorry.


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## Wade E (Oct 26, 2006)

Youll probably have to resize your photo. There is an excellent program
that is very easy to use somewhere in this forum but I cant find it.
Hopefully someone will post it for you to download. That way if you
want to email photos to someone they will download to their computer
much easier specially if they have dial up.


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## CajunTim (Oct 26, 2006)

Thanks Wade, I did size it down. Went from over 700kb down to 50 or so. it all worked till I tried to "post reply" then just sat there. well, I will try again on friday.


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## Wade E (Oct 26, 2006)

There are afew things you have to click. That size should have gone no
problem. What you could do is email Masta and he'll post it for you if
you continue to have problems.


*Edited by: wadewade *


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## masta (Oct 27, 2006)

Here is the image resizer and it works great. Depending on the size of the original picture determines weather you have to resize to large, medium or small to get below the 150 kb size limit for posting.


http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/learnmore/tips/eschelman2.mspx


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## CajunTim (Oct 27, 2006)

ok, this worked. It seems to work here at work. must be my net setup at home. Anyway this is day one. THANKS all of you for the help!



*Edited by: CajunTim *


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## NorthernWinos (Oct 27, 2006)

CajunTim said:


> ok, this worked. It seems to work here at work. must be my net setup at home. Anyway this is day one. THANKS all of you for the help!



I have trouble UpLoading photos too....I use the Reply box in the previous Post....then if I click on the UpLoad Icon real fast...like before the Post box has totally loaded I can get the Upload box to appear and can at least get one photo per Post.

If you figure out your problem at home I would love to know what you did.....Thanks!!!


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## Wade E (Oct 27, 2006)

Looking good cajun, Northern I hope you finally get this figured out. Is this the only problem left stemming from the virus?


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## OldWino1 (Oct 27, 2006)

haaa another newbie Life is good.


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## NorthernWinos (Oct 27, 2006)

wadewade said:


> Looking good cajun, Northern I hope you finally get this figured out. Is this the only problem left stemming from the virus?



Yes....but I can live with it....maybe someday it will just work again....?


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## kutya (Oct 28, 2006)

Tim: Welcome I think you will like it here.... I use a starter... I live in a cold climate, so those yeast need all the help they can get.....jh


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## CajunTim (Oct 29, 2006)

Thanks kutya, The apple wine is setting in the bucket now. Can’t tell that it is doing much just from looking at it. I do stir it twice a day and it makes a lot of bubbles and makes a neat hissing sound, so I am guessing it is doing what it’s supposed to do.


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## CajunTim (Oct 30, 2006)

*Hi all,

Well today is day 4, and I have been stirring my apple juice twice every day. The SGhas gone from 1.100 to 1.024. The recipe I am using says to stir twice a day for 10 days but does notgive a SG to look for. What do you think would be a good SG todo my first racking to glass? Thanks all.




*


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## masta (Oct 30, 2006)

Tim, 


A good target SG for transferring to glass and stop stirring is 1.010 to 1.020 which sounds like it will be very soon. Getting it into a carboy under an airlock will force the yeast to stop multiplying and concentrate on consuming the remaining sugar and converting to alcohol and CO2 since you are eliminating the oxygen.


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## rshosted (Oct 30, 2006)

Ok masta, What you have said made me wonder a few things.

Obviously yeast does need some oxygen... But I doubt they are like little turtles that need to swim to the top to gulp a few swallows of air and swim back down for a sugar feast and reproduce, but if the top of a carboy is deficient of O2, do they take oxygen from the water?





I've always used a bucket with an air tight lid and water lock, I figure there is no (limited) oxygen in there after a few days of fermenting. Typically I wait until it is done fermenting, then rack. Do you think this changes the wine in anyway? 

I kind of assumed the idea was to get the wine off the gross lees to prevent spoilage from the pulp that is typically settled at the bottom, not really to prevent air from getting to the wine (though, I would conceed that is an added advantage and left after fermenting you are risking air getting into the container).


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## Wade E (Oct 30, 2006)

Have you been seeing action at the airlock, if not I would get rid of
the little rubber O-Ring around the airlock, drill it out with a 1"
forstner drill bit and put in a 1" rubber bung. I had this problem with
2 primary buckets that were brand new. I was wondering what was going
on when nothing was going on but my SG was going down. Turns out they
were leaking right there the whole time.


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## masta (Oct 30, 2006)

rshosted said:


> Ok masta, What you have said made me wonder a few things.
> 
> Obviously yeast does need some oxygen... But I doubt they are like little turtles that need to swim to the top to gulp a few swallows of air and swim back down for a sugar feast and reproduce, but if the top of a carboy is deficient of O2, do they take oxygen from the water?
> 
> ...




I also ferment almost all my kit wines in a sealed primary with airlock.The water added to your must does contain some dissolved oxygen and when you stir the must it adds more (another reason to stir the must well in addition to mixing the viscous concentrate completely with the water). I believe the amount of oxygen available for the pitched yeast to reach a healthy colony in a sealed primary that has been stirred well is more than enough for a completion and problem free fermentation.


Boiling water as done when making beer drives off oxygen so stirring the wort is even more critical to make sure there is enough oxygen for the yeast to get started.


Another factor toremember is that grape juice is the perfect fermentation medium since it contains all the proper nutrients, amino acids and other goodies the yeast thrive on.


A more detailed explanation of the life cycle of yeast:


1) Respiration -- the first stage in the life cycle is aerobic. When
yeast is added to an unfermented nutrient broth (called wort in brewing,
or must in winemaking), it utilizes free oxygen in the solution. No
alcohol is produced in this stage, and CO2 production is low. During
respiration, yeast stores energy in various chemical forms to be used
later during reproduction and fermentation. Aerobic respiration will
generally continue until most of the dissolved oxygen is exhausted.

2) Fermentation -- this is the stage during which most CO2 is
produced. When no oxygen is available, yeast will switch to an
alternate metabolic pathway utilizing sugars for energy and producing,
primarily, CO2 and ethanol. Yeast divides rapidly in this phase,
reaching its carrying capacity (about 50 million cells/ml) in the wort
or must, and remains suspended in solution in order to expose maximum
surface area to nutrients. Assuming no oxygen is added back to the
fermenting wort, yeast will continue fermentation until one of two
things happens; either alcohol concentration will exceed tolerance, or
the yeast run out of food.

3) Sedimentation -- once conditions are no longer amicable to
fermentation, yeast will stop dividing and start storing energy in the
form of glycogen, a polysaccharide. Yeast will flocculate and fall out
of solution, creating a cake of sludge on the bottom of your
fermentation vessel. At this point, the yeast are no longer
metabolically active, and await better conditions in a state of
dormancy.


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## CajunTim (Oct 30, 2006)

Thanks Masta,
You guys are great! I wish I would have found you all long ago. I will keep a lookout for the SG. Sounds like I will be ready to start a new one soon.


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## paubin (Oct 30, 2006)

Ahhhh, another poor soul bitten by the bug! I see many new carboys in his future. Welcome Tim!!!


Pete


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## CajunTim (Oct 31, 2006)

Hi all, <?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
OK, I just transferred my apple wine to glass at an SP of 1.010.



Let’s see what happens next. I took a taste and it seemed ok. I will post pic in the am when I get back to work.


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## CajunTim (Nov 1, 2006)

OK, this is a picture of day # 8. It is bubbling away this morning.


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## Wade E (Nov 1, 2006)

Looking good there Cajun.


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## CajunTim (Nov 1, 2006)

Thanks Wade,
Hey, did you notice the bung on the gallon jug? I almost had a bobo. When I went to put it in the jug, it keep wanting to pop back out. Sooooo I pushed hard and it almost went right in the jug.



I used a pick and pulled it out and then placed it back in very carefully. Question is, this is a #8 bung and the jug is 1.5” on top. What size bung should I use?


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## masta (Nov 1, 2006)

Tim,


An #6 bung works well with gallon jug and here is chart to help you determine which bung to use.


http://www.finevinewines.com/Bung_Sizing_Chart.htm


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## CajunTim (Nov 1, 2006)

Thanks Masta,

I will change this one out when I rack the wine.


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## Wade E (Nov 1, 2006)

Cajun I knocked one all the way in once. It was very fun getting it
out. It was the proper size although I was in a hurry and tried to put
the airlock in without pulling the bung out. Bloop, in it went. Had to
use a coat hanger and about 10 minutes to get it out.


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## OGrav (Nov 1, 2006)

WW
I've never really trusted the whole bucket/airlock thing myself either. Had the exact thing happen to me so I abandoned it altogether. There are some buckets out there that have screw on caps with a gasket and a decent grommet system. I think that would be my choice if I went that direction. Years ago I made 1 rack beer in a bucket that had good action at the airlock, but when you're fermenting five gallons of beer, it's hard not to. The other problem was that I'm kind of nosy, I like to look at my wine a lot, this entails opening the top. To keep from prying the top off repeatedly, I just lay it on there, no lock,and put a clean towel over it. That way Ican look easy enough and no chance of spillage. If I had the problems of fruit flies some members have had, I'd probably go your route.
LT


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## OGrav (Nov 1, 2006)

CajunTim,
One thing I have found out with the rubber bungs is that they sometimes will work themselves out if they are wet. I had a five gal carboy #7 bung work it's way loose over a few minutes. I was taking them right from the sterilant solution, shaking them off and installing them, but now I dry them and an inch of the the neckwith a paper towel. Seems to work.
LT


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## CajunTim (Nov 1, 2006)

Wade, Yea I was happy that it did not go in. But I guess that's what being a newbie is all about. Live and learn. 


OGray, that's what happen. it was still wet, and I would push it in and "POP" right back out. Worked a little better when I dried it. Should be lots better with the right size bung.


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## Country Vines (Nov 3, 2006)

Masta, thanks for the chart. I can't believe I have lived all these 59 years and I'm just now discovering that I need a "Bung Size Chart" - how have I survived? Then again, I've learned a lot from you guys in the last couple of weeks !!


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 3, 2006)

We bought a carboy at a garage sale that had a smaller bung in it....got it out with no problems using a little hook...

We use only the Universal Bungs...in the Online Fine Vine Wines catalog, item #5148 #5149 #5150 and #5151....

http://www.finevinewines.com/Home-Wine-Making-Equipment-Stoppers.asp
[Copy and Paste...sorry]

Don't think you could push them in if you wanted to...Check them out!!!*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## CajunTim (Nov 9, 2006)

Day 13, I racked the apple wine to a clean Gal Jug. Started with a SG at 1.100 and now holding steady at .993. Guess I will just let it hang out for a few months and let it start clearing.








<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />


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## Wade E (Nov 9, 2006)

Looking good there Cajun.


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## CajunTim (Nov 27, 2006)

Update. 
Today is day 30. The apple wine is super clear right now. The SG is holding steady. I think I will rack it again today (2ed racking). I might stabilize it and back sweeten also, but not sure if I want to do it now or wait another few weeks.


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## kutya (Nov 27, 2006)

Tim, looks good. That apple really cleared nice....


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 27, 2006)

WOW!!!Is that ever clear....Did it clear on it's own???


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## PolishWineP (Nov 27, 2006)

Pretty...


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## CajunTim (Nov 27, 2006)

Kuta, Polish, Thanks I was surprised at how fast it cleared. After reading some sites I was thinking it would be more like 40 weeks.
<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
Northern, Yep…… It did it all by its self. I just followed the directions. Hope I don’t mess it up when I add the apple concentrate.


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## Wade E (Nov 27, 2006)

Mine would not clear up on its own, but then again I used mulling
spices, cinnamon sticks, and chopped raisins so one of those caused a
problem. Probably the mulling spices. It came out terrible at first but
after a little while in the bottle its improving incredibly!


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 27, 2006)

Do you ever oak your apple wines????I just started a Crabapple/Apple wine and am wondering what oak would do to the flavor????


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## CajunTim (Nov 27, 2006)

Northern, this is my first try at wine making so I am not sure about oak



. Others I am sure know more.


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## Wade E (Nov 27, 2006)

I have to start another apple wine. I wasnt anticipating doing it again
after my last apple wine. At bottling it was the worst wine I have ever
tasted. All of the wines I have made have been good at bottling and
only improve with time. The spiced apple was another story. It was so
horrible at bottling I thought of dumping it down the drain. It has
been in bottles now for about a month and we opened one the other day
and its already pretty good to my amazement. I cant believe in this
short of time this wine has improved drastically.Just goes to show you
what aging can do.


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## CajunTim (Nov 27, 2006)

Wade, can you describe the taste you encountered at bottling? I am just wounding as to what I might think is kind of ok might be what someone else calls HORRIBLE. I would hate to give a friend a bad wine.


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## Wade E (Nov 27, 2006)

I dont know if I can describe it but youll know if it tasted like mine.
I spit it out on contact. It didnt even taste anything like apple or
even wine for that matter. I sweetened it and that didnt even help so I
just bottled it. My wife is the one that opened one the other day and I
asked her what she was drinking and she said the Apple and I said WHAT,
your drinking that!


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## Waldo (Nov 28, 2006)

Cajun I dont think oak would do much for an apple wine. Now you take a good Muscadine and give it some Medium Toast French Oak and Mmmmmmmm!!!


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## CajunTim (Dec 3, 2006)

Hello all! 
OK, so I back sweetened my apple wine and put ½ teaspoon Potassium Sorbate and one crushed campden tablet in two days ago. I notice it still gives off a bubble about every 45 minutes. Should I add more Sorbate and /or campden?


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## Wade E (Dec 3, 2006)

This is probably gas. I would degass it more. If this is a gallon
batch, to find out, sanitize your palm, put it over the top of carboy
and shake. If when you let your palm off you get a puff of air, you
need to degass more.


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## CajunTim (Dec 4, 2006)

Thanks wade, will give that a try today after work.


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## Waldo (Dec 4, 2006)

A better method cajun is to sanitize the lips, place the opening of thecarboy between them, tilt the jug up quickly and.........



Using the same method gave for testing is also a good way to degass a gallon batch


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## CajunTim (Dec 4, 2006)

Thanks Waldo, I best not. I think that method would leave me with just a 1/4 gallon or so.


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## peterCooper (Dec 4, 2006)

Waldo that does degassing and deliquiding at the same time. Pretty economical use of time.


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## CajunTim (Dec 14, 2006)

The apple wine is doing just fine bulk ageing in the jug. I think I might bottle it this weekend because temptation is getting to me and it will be way to easy to tilt the jug over from time to time. 
This is the label I think I will use.


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## Wade E (Dec 14, 2006)

Looks very nice!


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