# 2nd Year Vinyard



## jleschorn (Mar 11, 2015)

So I have good news to report overall, our wet and mostly mild winter in Indiana has actually worked out very well for my vines. I pruned them heavily the other day and found very little winter dieback and lots of green vines.

I viewed a number of videos on cane and cordon pruning. Of course since all of the wood is "2nd year wood" this year all of the pruning I do is cane pruning. (I think).

So as for the specific varieties...
- Concord - These are by far my strongest vines, they are all up on the arbors with at least one cane trained to it if not more. I hope to allow these guys to produce some grapes this year. Any thoughts?
- Catawba - These are doing well, all but the last two (of 6) are on their arbors but are generally a bit smaller/thinner than the concords. Should I pinch off the fruit? Give them more time to grow vegitatively?
- Reliance/Canadice - I am going to be finishing the arbors over the next few weeks for these guys, it seems the cold of last winter (13/14) really did a number on them, I lost a few of these vines. I don't intend to allow grapes to grow on these this year. My plan is to use the healthier vines to create new vines from chutes where the old dead vines where... Any advice on this process?

Looking forward to your feedback.

Sincerely,

John


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## Taurii (Mar 11, 2015)

Hi John,

I am also from East Central Indiana! I just pruned my second year vines as well. I also had very little winter dead loss and lots of green vines. I believe that you should not let any of the vines fruit this year. Let them get bigger and then next year, let them fruit out. Don't rush it, you will be better in the long run!


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## grapeman (Mar 12, 2015)

You are lucky you had a relatively mild winter as opposed to a very cold one. 
For a bit of terminology clarification. The buds that grow this year turn into shoots (not chutes) and are called shoots all year. Next winter/spring as they have hardened off they turn a nice brown to coppery color. At that point they are called canes. The canes from the previous year (formed two years ago not last year) has a bit of bark to it and is then called two year wood. What you refer to as an arbor is likely a trellis made up of posts and wires. An arbor is a wooden structure built to hold vines in a decorative fashion.

As far as fruiting, Taurii is correct. Take all the fruit off the first couple growing seasons. If the vines are well formed you can take some the third year, but don't overdo it with them. The more fruit left on the vine, the slower the vine will grow and mature. Think of the very young vines as 12 to 14 year old girls. Yes they can often have babies but you want them to wait until they are much more mature to have them.

Sounds like you are off to a good start. Have patience and you will be getting grapes before you know it.


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## jleschorn (Mar 13, 2015)

*Thank You*

Thank you all of the advice and vocabulary lesson. For reference, I am in West Central Indiana, will update my profile...

To be more precise, these vines were previously planted three years ago, transplanted mid-season two years ago. So I figure that shock caused them to lose almost a year of growth, hence I call it a 2nd year vineyard...

I decided I'd pick up a couple of vines to replace what was lost, I figure since they will arrive next week I can plant them and give them a full season instead of using the shoot from another plant.

On fertilizing the plants, I have this idea to put a round stake (about 1 1/2 in diameter) in three spots about 12 inches deep/18 inches out from each plant. Then put in a 1 1/2 tablespoons of 10-10-10 fertilizer (This is what I used last year) in each hole then back filling with a bit of soil.

Any advice there?


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## garymc (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm curious about the idea to create 3 little hotspots of concentrated fertilizer. And why you want to bury it a foot deep when the feeder roots are largely within a few inches of the surface.


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## jleschorn (Mar 13, 2015)

*To Gary...*

You know... I never said I was experienced, I asked for advice. So... Not sure why the snarkyness...

So what I glean from your statement is that I should instead spread the fertilizer over an area, perhaps under my mulch around the vines? I can do that, thanks for the help.

John


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## grapeman (Mar 14, 2015)

I use my hand to apply the fertilizer and broadcast it in a circle around the vine about a foot or so from the trunk. That makes a two foot or larger circle. Try not to dibble it on the circle. Use your semicupped finger to direct it so it spreads out a bit. That way the roots can find it easily. I just apply to the top and rains work it in over the growing season. I try for around a cup per vine. It takes a little pracice but you can get it pretty accurate with a bit of trial.


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## jleschorn (Mar 14, 2015)

*Excellent...*

Grapeman -

Thanks for your feedback. I will follow that advice...  BTW I browsed over to your website, your vineyard is great, if I'm ever in the area I'll stop by.

John


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## spaniel (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm generally in your area, a bit west of Indy. The above are correct, nip the flowers off all of your vines in the second year.

Also, it does not matter how old your vines were before you replanted them. When you replant them they lose the majority of the root, which is what needs to be established. The year you put them in the ground they are again 1st year vines and no fruiting should be allowed until third year (full crop 4th year).

Canadice is a bit frail here. I have it. It took 5-6 years to establish for me but is doing okay now, still not good yield though.

Finally, in my opinion, you pruned too early. I know it is tempting to get out there once the winter lifts and prune. But when the buds break, they start from the tips of the vines and work inward. There can be a week or more difference in budbreak from the tip of the vines to the core of the vine (the part you will retain after pruning). So if you wait on pruning, the vine starts budbreak on the part of the vine you will throw away. If there is a late frost, the part that will be hurt is the part you will cut off anyways. Delayed pruning is a way to protect yourself from the late frosts we can get here. There has been a couple years that this strategy has really saved me.

The tradeoff is that when you DO start pruning, you have to get out there and get it all done pretty quickly.


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## oregondabbler (Mar 24, 2015)

jleschorn said:


> So what I glean from your statement is that I should instead spread the fertilizer over an area, perhaps under my mulch around the vines? I can do that, thanks for the help.
> 
> John


Have you tested your soil? If not, wait until mid-summer and get some soil samples as well as leaf samples into a good lab.

For fertilizer, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. With sandy soils, more fertilizer might be needed, with loamy clay soils maybe not. You can look up your property and get a good idea of what type of soil you have by accessing this link: http://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm

good luck


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## jleschorn (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback! I'm certainly learning as I go...


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## barbiek (Mar 26, 2015)

grapeman said:


> You are lucky you had a relatively mild winter as opposed to a very cold one.
> For a bit of terminology clarification. The buds that grow this year turn into shoots (not chutes) and are called shoots all year. Next winter/spring as they have hardened off they turn a nice brown to coppery color. At that point they are called canes. The canes from the previous year (formed two years ago not last year) has a bit of bark to it and is then called two year wood. What you refer to as an arbor is likely a trellis made up of posts and wires. An arbor is a wooden structure built to hold vines in a decorative fashion.
> 
> As far as fruiting, Taurii is correct. Take all the fruit off the first couple growing seasons. If the vines are well formed you can take some the third year, but don't overdo it with them. The more fruit left on the vine, the slower the vine will grow and mature. Think of the very young vines as 12 to 14 year old girls. Yes they can often have babies but you want them to wait until they are much more mature to have them.
> ...



So for clarification the first couple years you pinch off little grapes? And third you can let all grapes grow and harvest only 1/2 but leave the other fruit on the vine?
Thanks


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## grapeman (Mar 26, 2015)

Yes, tsake all the grapes off the vine the first couple years and NO! You leave some grapes to form on the vine the third year, removing the othersat or right after bloom. It would do no good to leave half the grapes on the vine. The forming grapes sap energy out of the vine. If you leave all the grapes on the vine too soon, you stunt the vine and it takes longer to mature.


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## barbiek (Mar 26, 2015)

Ok was reading that wrong. Now I feel stupid I knew it was wrong lèaving the fruit on! Duh Makes total sense now 


Thank you for the clarity


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