# Japanese beetles help



## JCBurg (Aug 5, 2019)

hi everybody, my poor vines have been eaten alive this year. I have been spraying neem oil liberally but it’s only delayed the inevitable it seems. What is everyone else using to control this pest?


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## Masbustelo (Aug 5, 2019)

Sevin. I walk through and shoot every JB I see. Every day. Until they are gone.


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## JCBurg (Aug 5, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> Sevin. I walk through and shoot every JB I see. Every day. Until they are gone.


Hi friend, thanks for the reply. I think o tried sevin last year and it wasn’t awesome. You’re saying you used the spray? What time do you go out and treat?


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## Masbustelo (Aug 5, 2019)

They are more active in the evenings. I don't spray the vines, just the bugs. I keep a spray bottle handy when I'm in the vines and the Beetles are out. Mine are done until next year. The Sevin has worked great for me, both old formula and new. You have to kill them each day, because each day new ones show up.


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 5, 2019)

Last year was sevin roughly every 7 to 10 days.
This year sevin and some areas with eight again roughly every week. Was interesting that I got to pick berries at Week four July without an infestation. Spraying started at week one August.
Four years ago tried milky spore which seemed useless.


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## BigH (Aug 5, 2019)

JCBurg said:


> What is everyone else using to control this pest?



I use liquid sevin concentrate (zeta-cymerperethin). It is effective and degrades quickly. Going to give milky spore a try this fall. Don't know much about it. Some people even use cordless dust busters.

Tonight I was pondering whether I could grow some wild grape in our chicken pen to attract them away from the vineyard. I could give the wire a shake a few times a day and let the chickens eat the ones that fall. 

H


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 5, 2019)

BigH said:


> Tonight I was pondering whether I could grow some wild grape in our chicken pen to attract them away from the vineyard. I could give the wire a shake a few times a day and let the chickens eat the ones that fall. H


There are a lot of plants that JB like as roses, cherries, asparagus, raspberries. You could go decorative.
My first year I thought concord was more resistant than Minnesota hybrids.


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## JCBurg (Aug 6, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> They are more active in the evenings. I don't spray the vines, just the bugs. I keep a spray bottle handy when I'm in the vines and the Beetles are out. Mine are done until next year. The Sevin has worked great for me, both old formula and new. You have to kill them each day, because each day new ones show up.


I have so many beetles I’m not sure that would work, though that may be because I haven’t been using the sevin. Did you treat the ground lay fall?


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## JCBurg (Aug 6, 2019)

Rice_Guy said:


> Last year was sevin roughly every 7 to 10 days.
> This year sevin and some areas with eight again roughly every week. Was interesting that I got to pick berries at Week four July without an infestation. Spraying started at week one August.
> Four years ago tried milky spore which seemed useless.


So you sprayed sevin about every week or so, did you cover the vines or did you just hit the bugs like masbustelo?


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## JCBurg (Aug 6, 2019)

BigH said:


> I use liquid sevin concentrate (zeta-cymerperethin). It is effective and degrades quickly. Going to give milky spore a try this fall. Don't know much about it. Some people even use cordless dust busters.
> 
> Tonight I was pondering whether I could grow some wild grape in our chicken pen to attract them away from the vineyard. I could give the wire a shake a few times a day and let the chickens eat the ones that fall.
> 
> H


See now that’s an interesting answer, what animals eat them? Seems like the liquid sevin is unanimous though. I tried the powder last year, it killed the bugs great but the powder coated plants didn’t grow very well because they weren’t getting sunlight.


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## KevinL (Aug 6, 2019)

Ditto on the Liquid Sevin. I've had great results with it. I've done two whole vineyard sprays, and then I walk through on a daily basis with a squirt bottle. If your operation is small enough, then a hand bottle will be fine. Otherwise you can get a 2 or 4 gallon pump sprayer. The benefit of spraying all of the leaves is that you'll get 7-10 days of full protection. So if you need to head out of town for a few days it's a good option.


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## JCBurg (Aug 6, 2019)

KevinL said:


> Ditto on the Liquid Sevin. I've had great results with it. I've done two whole vineyard sprays, and then I walk through on a daily basis with a squirt bottle. If your operation is small enough, then a hand bottle will be fine. Otherwise you can get a 2 or 4 gallon pump sprayer. The benefit of spraying all of the leaves is that you'll get 7-10 days of full protection. So if you need to head out of town for a few days it's a good option.



I have only 12 vines, so it should t require a pump sprayer. Now I just had someone recommend water and dish soap because it drown the bugs, anyone heard of that? She said it kills them by the hundreds on her crabapple tree


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## BigH (Aug 6, 2019)

JCBurg said:


> See now that’s an interesting answer, what animals eat them?



Both our chickens and ducks eat them.



> Seems like the liquid sevin is unanimous though. I tried the powder last year



l believe the powder still uses carbaryl as the active ingredient. It is effective against JB as well, but it is important to understand that you are essentially using a different product.

H


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## GreenEnvy22 (Aug 6, 2019)

I use Altacor, I spray it when I first see them appear and reapply every week or two.
But this year I've only seen 1 JB so far, so haven't sprayed yet.


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## JCBurg (Aug 6, 2019)

GreenEnvy22 said:


> I use Altacor, I spray it when I first see them appear and reapply every week or two.
> But this year I've only seen 1 JB so far, so haven't sprayed yet.


Color me jealous, how nice for you, lolz


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## Masbustelo (Aug 6, 2019)

The first year I had thousands of them. This year and last year many many less. I am hoping due diligence affects the breeding population. I have read that milky spore is more effective in the South, because in the North the low temps kill the colonies.


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## KevinL (Aug 6, 2019)

JCBurg said:


> I have only 12 vines, so it should t require a pump sprayer. Now I just had someone recommend water and dish soap because it drown the bugs, anyone heard of that? She said it kills them by the hundreds on her crabapple tree



Water and dish soap work well to kill them, but not to repel them. I used that method and knocked them by hand into a Tupperware container filled with soapy water my first year. By the second year there were too many leaves and too many JBs to continue that method. That's when I discovered liquid Sevin and my life was changed for the better.

You could get the 2 gallon pump sprayer (usually 20-25 dollars) to make your life easier if you wanted to do a full vineyard spray. But for 12 vines, spot treatment with a spray bottle will probably be enough. You'll need to be diligent and spray them daily if you do the spot treatment method. If you're planning on leaving town, be sure to give your vines a protective spray. It's a bad feeling to go out of town for a weekend and come back to no leaves on your vine

You can also spray them with soapy water for a kill. I've read that crushing them isn't the best idea, because that will release the pheromones that they use to attract other beetles.


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## SundownVineyard (Aug 7, 2019)

I use Astro (Permethrin) and it works well. Unless you have time to spray literally every few days, Neem wont control beetles nearly as well.


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 7, 2019)

Neem merely interrupts the breeding cycle for these demons. I have found the Garden Tech version of Sevin most effective. I sometimes throw in Ortho Fruit and Vegetable stuff, just to throw the critters a curve ball. I also use Bonide Fruit Tree Spray early in the season, which has Carbaryl and malathion in it (as well as Captan).


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## JCBurg (Aug 7, 2019)

SundownVineyard said:


> I use Astro (Permethrin) and it works well. Unless you have time to spray literally every few days, Neem wont control beetles nearly as well.


This, I am discovering


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## JCBurg (Aug 7, 2019)

Dennis Griffith said:


> Neem merely interrupts the breeding cycle for these demons. I have found the Garden Tech version of Sevin most effective. I sometimes throw in Ortho Fruit and Vegetable stuff, just to throw the critters a curve ball. I also use Bonide Fruit Tree Spray early in the season, which has Carbaryl and malathion in it (as well as Captan).


I have added these to my list


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## JCBurg (Aug 7, 2019)

This has been an excellent forum, I am so glad I posted! Thanks everyone for all the helpful information, I’ll try some of these spurious next year and maybe post on my progress then!


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## Michael Alspaugh (Aug 8, 2019)

I have many fruit trees about 110 and have had these BUGGGERS for years I treat the ground a few times a year around my trees "With 7" to kill the GRUBBs. They seem to be dwindling in number after a couple years of treatment a few times a year spring summer and fall. I don't think travel too far unless you use those bate traps that lure them to you property that is a no-no unless you place them far away and put a five gallon bucket under it with water in it to drown the ones that don't get in the trap... Then find someone with chickens they love the BUGGERS!


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 8, 2019)

I do set traps far out. When I do, I need to drive out to them and swap the bags twice a day during the height of the beetle season. Plus nothing smells worse than dead JBs. I also treat the ground with milky spore in both the orchard and vineyard. I also have a spray program. One thing I know, JBs like grape and plum tree leaves (and knot weed, go figure). If I didn't do what I do, they would strip the trees and vines of green. Plus I fight the fungus year round. Sometimes I wonder why I do it.


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## memnosine (Aug 8, 2019)

Yeah, and now I've got raccoon(s) as well. Grapes all over the patio every morning. JBs and raccoons and birds, oh my.


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## BigH (Aug 8, 2019)

Dennis Griffith said:


> Sometimes I wonder why I do it.



When I first got into this, I would read stories about people trying to rejuvenate neglected vines. I would think "why would anyone let their vines go like that in the first place?" Well, now I know why!

H


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## hitchiker (Aug 8, 2019)

JB are good they eat the eggs and larva of other harmful bugs send yours to South Ga.


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 9, 2019)

Well, if they just restricted their diet to that, it would save me time and money for sure.


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## BigH (Aug 9, 2019)

hitchiker said:


> JB are good they eat the eggs and larva of other harmful bugs send yours to South Ga.



Do you have a reference for this beneficial predation? Everything I have read indicates that JB are herbivores. Any chance you are thinking of some other bug?

From https://entomologytoday.org/2019/04...st-management-tips-japanese-beetles-soy-corn/



> The Japanese beetle is a generalist herbivore, meaning it will feed on nearly any plant available, although it has shown some preference for certain plants.



H


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## JCBurg (Aug 9, 2019)

Dennis Griffith said:


> I do set traps far out. When I do, I need to drive out to them and swap the bags twice a day during the height of the beetle season. Plus nothing smells worse than dead JBs. I also treat the ground with milky spore in both the orchard and vineyard. I also have a spray program. One thing I know, JBs like grape and plum tree leaves (and knot weed, go figure). If I didn't do what I do, they would strip the trees and vines of green. Plus I fight the fungus year round. Sometimes I wonder why I do it.


Because it’s worth it


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## hitchiker (Aug 9, 2019)

BigH said:


> Do you have a reference for this beneficial predation? Everything I have read indicates that JB are herbivores. Any chance you are thinking of some other bug?
> 
> From https://entomologytoday.org/2019/04...st-management-tips-japanese-beetles-soy-corn/
> 
> ...


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## treesaver (Aug 11, 2019)

School me on JB. We have always had big JB's that are around when fruit and berries get ripe. They are big shiney green and brown colored, a bit larger than the big brown june bugs that come out in the spring. I understand the ones that have invaded this country a number of years back are a smaller variety, that eat the leaves. Am I right so far? I do not have the smaller ones yet(thank God), but the big ones are eating my grapes, and have just started. Went out this afternoon, and they were thick on some of the bunches. Will the liquid seven work on those also? I really don't want to resort to malithion! Thanks


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 11, 2019)

I believe the ones that you are calling big JBs are really called 'Green June Beetles' and I rarely see them here. Just make sure you have a really short PHI on anything you spray them with.


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## treesaver (Aug 13, 2019)

Never have seen a green June beetle around here. June bugs that I have seen are brown, both large and small ones, and are active at night at the first of summer, usually in May. Haven't seen a June bug in two months here. The link that Hitchiker had in his post, made no distinction of a large or small Japanese beetle, but the ones that were eating my grapes were bigger than the ones I seen in traps over in Mo when I visited a friend there a couple years ago. That is why I thought there were two species. This is the first year they have ate my grapes, and I worked them over with seven last night, and will do it again this afternoon. Body count was high! Think I will leave my chickens and guineas penned for a while, don't want them eating poisened bugs!


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## treesaver (Aug 15, 2019)

Well I doused the JB with sevin as recommended, and must have got an extremely good kill, as I haven't seen one since. Been patroling the vines two to three times a day, and zero JB's! The frontenacs have been netted for a couple weeks now, and checked the brix yesterday, was up to 21 already. It surprised me it was that high already. Prolly pick next week. Thanks for the help on the seven, a few more days and I wouldn't have had any left!


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## BigH (Aug 15, 2019)

treesaver said:


> The frontenacs have been netted for a couple weeks now, and checked the brix yesterday, was up to 21 already. It surprised me it was that high already.



Frontenac is a bit of a tease. Its sugar levels come up quick, but the acids take forever to drop off. At least that is how mine behaves.

H


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## KevinL (Aug 16, 2019)

treesaver said:


> The frontenacs have been netted for a couple weeks now, and checked the brix yesterday, was up to 21 already. It surprised me it was that high already. Prolly pick next week.



Good to hear the issue is resolved. Double check the label of the Sevin that you purchased. If you bought an older bottle, it is Carbaryl, and will have a longer PHI than the Zeta-Cypermethrin newer Sevin which has a PHI of 1 day. So if you sprayed the older stuff you'll need to wait the full pre-harvest interval before you pull them.

Ditto on what BigH said about the Acid in Frontenac. Check your TA. For my Frontenac, TA is the harvest parameter, not the sugar. I wait as long as I can as long as the pH doesn't get too high.


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## treesaver (Aug 16, 2019)

When I sent my bride to get it, I wrote down the Zeta Cypermethrin, and told her to only get that. Glad that was what I got. And yes on the acid! I have had several vints from my frontenacs now, and last year I let them hang till I was getting a fair bit of rasined fruit, but was pleased with the way the wine turned out. I have les trouble with the frontenac than with the acid in the norton. Have had pretty good success with hang time, the right yeast and cold stabilizing.


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## Masbustelo (Aug 29, 2019)

Regarding Japanese beetles, I have had good luck daily shooting them directly with Sevin. I think maybe some of us are overlooking an organic solution that is inexpensive and perhaps no more time consuming. I'm thinking that Diatomaceous earth may very well be equally efficacious. It seems very little experimentation has been done with it on agricultural crops and Japanese beetles. I'm thinking of experimenting with it next year. That would allow me to go organic from July 1st until harvest. It would be very effective on aphids as well.


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## Rice_Guy (Aug 31, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> Regarding Japanese beetles, I have had good luck daily shooting them directly with Sevin. I think maybe some of us are overlooking an organic solution that is inexpensive and perhaps no more time consuming. I'm thinking that Diatomaceous earth may very well be equally efficacious. It seems very little experimentation has been done with it on agricultural crops and Japanese beetles. I'm thinking of experimenting with it next year. That would allow me to go organic from July 1st until harvest. It would be very effective on aphids as well.


Bug-A-salt is for shooting bugs with salt, , , wonder if it would work with diatomaceous earth?


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## Masbustelo (Aug 31, 2019)

Rice_Guy Kudos for thinking outside the box!


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## Dennis Griffith (Aug 31, 2019)

Masbustelo said:


> Regarding Japanese beetles, I have had good luck daily shooting them directly with Sevin. I think maybe some of us are overlooking an organic solution that is inexpensive and perhaps no more time consuming. I'm thinking that Diatomaceous earth may very well be equally efficacious. It seems very little experimentation has been done with it on agricultural crops and Japanese beetles. I'm thinking of experimenting with it next year. That would allow me to go organic from July 1st until harvest. It would be very effective on aphids as well.



I would like to know how this proceeds. Currently I have a 3 pronged attack, mechanical (traps), chemical (Sevin), and biological (milky spore). I had very little problem this year, but I think it may have had something to do with the constant rain we had at the start of the season. It appears that the grubs can't breathe under water for long.


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## Masbustelo (Aug 31, 2019)

Dennis I couldn't find failed or successful experiments testing the diatomaceous earth, either at the homeowner level, or university type studies. Now I wish they would show up again...


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## memnosine (Sep 1, 2019)

Beetle season must be almost over here in the Colorado foothills. Seeing way fewer the last week and smaller body counts in the bag. Going to try nematodes this month for future reductions. Hate to think of poisons. Besides, the squirrels and coons are as bad.


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## efBobby (Sep 8, 2019)

I got lucky and the influx of beetles attracted some local bats and then the beetles were gone. 

Look into attracting bats for a natural solution. Sevin is the go to for beetles tho. 

Another tactic would be to put up some bait plants and hose the beetles down that flock to it. 

One was a type of tree and the other was a weed that grows wild. I lost track of the tree but I will get you a pic of the weed. 

The beetles seemed to like the weed more than the grapes!


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## efBobby (Sep 8, 2019)

Here is the weed. No idea what it is.


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## Dennis Griffith (Sep 24, 2019)

Knotweed, and JBs love it.


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## memnosine (Sep 25, 2019)

Beetles are almost gone here in Denver; one or two per day. What tells them the season is over; just last years hatch complete?


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## Bobp (Feb 2, 2020)

I suggest treating as much of your sod space, and the adjoining neighbors place too if you can, use something approved for sod treatment. First treatment when you have your first 3 day span over 60°, last of March first of April, then every 2 weeks through June.
Diazonon, Loriisban, ect

This takes care of the grubs as they move up the soil column into warmer soils to pupate.

Then I like Mustang max for emerged beetles....

But doing this yearly seems to significantly reduce the 'local' breeding population..


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## Dennis Griffith (Feb 3, 2020)

Diazinon is no longer available as it was banned during the Clinton years. JBs usually have a hatch window of about a month triggered by weather conditions. They are short lived with a focus on eating and breeding. Read my three pronged approach above. But they are best attacked in the ground as that is where they spend the longest time. Don't depend on just the ground attack though as they travel on the wind, so you'll need to think about your above ground strategy. I had them show up one year and by noon had stripped about half the leaves off the grapes and plums (2 of their most fav foods).


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## Bobp (Feb 3, 2020)

I can't speak for all states, but Diazinon is certainly still available. Its restricted use of course. But absolutely available and fairly cost effective. 75$-80 for 21/2 gallon jug.
I buy 21/2 gallons of Diazinon AG500, every other year or so....and it has an AG use label for several different crops. 
I use it for turf control of any and all grubs, in the time frame in apply it in. Which usually is 2-4 applications 2 weeks apart to maximize coverage. 
We still get fly in JBs but they are fairly manageable through co-treatments applied on a schedule designed around other pests such as SWD.....


I've often wondered that if you could control a flock of guineas in daily hunts through your vineyard during June/July....pre harvest of course. I figured this could be highly effective if combined with other Treatments.


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## efBobby (Feb 4, 2020)

An option I'm considering this year is a broad spectrum systemic and lure.

I will certainly get the grapes too but the info gained last year will be most helpful as in I will have some knotweed close by also given a systemic. 

I see there are quite a few organically approved systemics now. I want to try venom but man is it pricey! 

Additionally I will hang a few bat boxes at whatever the recommended distance is from my house!


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## treesaver (Feb 5, 2020)

Speaking of bats, I have a rather funny story to tell on myself. Was walking through a part of my vineyard with verona vines that had ripening clusters on them last summer. One bunch looked kinda funny, as I was getting my bifocals right as I reached for it, to look closer. The bunch came alive and tried to bite me and flew away. I felt the fang against my thumb nail, and was glad it wasn't anywhere else! From now on I will look closer before I touch!


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## akron (May 3, 2020)

Anyone ever tried to make wine from Japanese knotweed? What would it be like?


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## Dennis Griffith (May 3, 2020)

Chew some leaves to see if you like the taste, but I'd spit it out afterwards. It's KNOT toxic from what I've read.


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