# New York Muscat grapes



## St Allie

I have located a nursery selling this vine, and it seems they are a dessert wine grape...

Does anyone grow these? 

Allie


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## Racer

Sorry but the closest thing I have is valvin muscat.It's a hybrid from cornell univ. grape breeding program.


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## Racer

Here's some information for you on New York Muscat St.Allie http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/fls/OCRPDF/80a.pdf And here is a bit more info too http://www.rakgrape.com/pdf_files/2008-2009-VineVariety.pdf


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## St Allie

Thankyou!

I bought two vines yesterday and intend to have a go with cuttings to increase my stock.. they appear to be on their own roots and not grafted and i have room for about 10 in this variety in the side paddock ( without stealing more grass off the steers).. also bought a niagara grape and a pinot noir.. they had a riesling and an interlaken.. but might leave those for my next shopping trip as I couldn't resist buying a fig too

nothing ventured.. nothing gained..


Allie


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## St Allie

Racer said:


> Sorry but the closest thing I have is valvin muscat.It's a hybrid from cornell univ. grape breeding program.



how many do you have and does it crop well?.. Everthing I have read on the new york muscat suggests the yield of fruit isn't super high but that the flavour is worth growing the grapes for.

Allie


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## Racer

I have 8 vines of valvin muscat. Next year is the first year I'll be able to take a full crop from them. Winter kill set me back a year this past season. The vines have come back really well this year though.I've had a small amount of grapes from the vines the last 2 seasons. 

They say for valvin muscat to pick when the flavors are there, and boy are they right about that! As they start to ripen peaches is the first thing you taste.If left to hang longer you can get orange peel/spiced orange tastes from them. It's my understanding that most all muscat varieties can make a really flavorful wine.

Some of the information I read on New York muscat says its hardy down to 0ºF how are your winter temps there where you live?


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## St Allie

we get 5 to 6 frosts a year,

nothing major.

I think muscat is underrated here, Auckland is mostly grown in whites .. chardonnay etc

Allie


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## Racer

You should have no problems growing most vinifera with only getting a few frosts each year. I get to worry about seeing temps. down to -20º F each year. That is bad enough to kill all exposed vine material on vinifera here. I hope the new york muscat work out for you. Have you started to read up on disease control for grapes yet?


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## St Allie

Just reading up on what trellissing systems to use. I tend to plant a lot of different things together.. so I'll do one row of vines.. then the next row is lemon trees etc.. that way if you get a problem with a plant it's easier to isolate and it won't just hop from one row to the next. I'm not a big fan of spraying and chemicals.

Will add disease control for grapes to my list of reading though, thanks for mentioning it.. so apart from the cold.. are your muscat grapes pretty disease resistant?


Allie


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## Racer

Their not too bad as far as disease goes. I did have some downy mildew and black rot start on them earlier this year. I did get it under control with a few sprays (I use organic inputs only on my vines).One of the links I gave earlier in this thread had the characteristics for vines and recommended trellis systems too, new york muscat was in there I believe.I'll see if I can find a link for an organic grapegrowing manual researched and written in aus. if I remember right. It's helped me alot.


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## St Allie

cheers for that.. any information gratefully received.

from memory downy mildew is controlled with a spray made up of water and bicarbonate of soda. Works fast and is cheap has no effect on the plants themselves.. you've probably got it in your cupboard at home.

Allie


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## Racer

Here's a link for the manual http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/DPI/nrenfa.nsf/childdocs/-DA7B09A643F323EDCA256E7500202EB8-DBCCB60C65D85DB7CA256E75007FE082-0F0A9417C667F120CA25704B007D7B01?open


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## Racer

St Allie said:


> cheers for that.. any information gratefully received.
> 
> from memory downy mildew is controlled with a spray made up of water and bicarbonate of soda. Works fast and is cheap has no effect on the plants themselves.. you've probably got it in your cupboard at home.
> 
> Allie



Yes your right about that. I do like using an enviromentally friendly cure as I can too. I hang out in my vineyardette too much to want to have nasty chemicals to rub into too.


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## St Allie

I lost an entire crop of peaches to mold last year due to a neighbour not taking care of their peach tree, the spores floated over the fenceline.. I've had to spray and prune it. I waited til the neighbour was out and I've been over the fence and sprayed their tree too. Fingers crossed for this year.. That's the first time I've had to spray in 5 years and that was only copper for leafcurl anyway. Organic gardening works so much better for disease control.

Allie


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## Racer

I get alot of disease pressure here in the midwest and am finally starting to understand how to keep things under control on grapes (its taken 7 years so far). My new problem now is starting to understand how to take care of apple trees. My wife asked if we could plant some, so I started 1 honeycrisp and 1 jonagold tree for her this spring. I can see from this years growing season leaf hoppers are going to be a problem with them.


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## St Allie

what are leaf hoppers?

is it like grasshoppers?


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## Racer

Their very small insects that do kind of act like grasshoppers in the way they can hop around
You probable have very different insects that can be a problem for you and your grapevines but some diseases are common to us all. Powdery and downy mildew are a few that come to mind.


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## St Allie

I had a quick google.

are they the triangle ones?

sap suckers?

yeah we have those.

kitchen detergent spray kills them and doesn't affect the plants.

Allie


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## Racer

Doesnt that kill some of the benefical insects too though?


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## St Allie

no.

my garden is only interfered with sprays..if the plant is struggling.
It's not a blanket regime
Allie


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## Racer

I started out being reactive to the pest,be it disease or bug. But found out that in this area you are in for alot of trouble if they do show up. I've learned to watch out for the bugs that have a habit of returning each year and only spray when they are expected. As far as disease goes a regular program has to be used during certain portions of the season or I can get into real trouble. Some diseases dont have a good organic eradicant solution yet. Like black rot, phomopsis, anthracnose. So a preventitive program needs to be used if problems are to be avoided.


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## St Allie

I have quite a few apple and pear trees and no issues with other insects.. we do get codling moth though .. so you have to be super vigilant about removing and destroying affected fruit and leaves, or they will overwinter.

Allie


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## Racer

I'm going to have to read up on codling moths it sounds like. I've had problems with grape berry moth with my grapes before and think I have finally found the right timing to spray for them. I hope you don't have anything like them there where you are. I spent hours a few years ago picking "shot" berries off of clusters because of them. The larvae eat their way into the grape berries and wreck them on you. Man what a pain in the a-- that was.


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## St Allie

We don't have fruit fly here, in Australia they have a fruit fly that gets all soft fruits including citrus, they get codling moth too..

In NZ with grapes , it's more likely that birds will get at them ... oh and wasps. Good netting keeps the birds off and we leave out wasp traps anyway.

you can buy pheromone based codling moth traps if they actually are a pest in your country.. you hang the trap in the trees and it entices all the males to get themselves stuck on a sticky mat inside the trap. Solution being.. no breeding.

Allie


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## Racer

Has the weather been good enough for you to get the vines in the ground yet St Allie?


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## St Allie

The trellising isn't done.. so the vines are in separate buckets with a lil water in the bottom til the posts are in.. putting them in first and then trying to faff about with posts and wires would just be annoying.

weather is great though .. so hoping to get them in this week.. ground is warming up.

Allie


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## Racer

I think you have a good approach there, getting the trellis up first like that. I've done things both ways as I have expanded my plantings over the last 7 years now. It can get really fun when the trellis wires slips from your hands and quickly looks like its going to maul all the vines in the row when you wait till after the vines are planted to finish the trellis work. I still have 2 rows of 1st year vines that need all trellis work done for them.


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## Racer

Here's a couple of pictures of some of my valvin muscat as the season starts to come near an end here.


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## St Allie

That looks well organised.

what have you got planted underneath them?

Allie


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## Racer

Its both vineyard and garden at the same time. Besides the usual weeds that get a good foot hold late in the season you are seeing 1 variety of sweet potato low to the ground. The white blossoms in the foreground are my leeks I still have to dig up as I need them.Living in a bigger city has its draw backs but I'm fortunate to have the lot beside my house for this garden space.


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## St Allie

heheh.. my leeks don't get a chance to flower.. I didn't realise they had such a showy flower.. very like onions I suppose. I plant gherkins under everything.. it keeps the weeds down and we get a prolific amount of gherkins for the kitchen cupboard.

how big is the lot?

Allie


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## Racer

The lot measures 50' x 130'. The garden space is 30'x 60' approximately.
I have over 40 vines with 6 different varieties right now. Next year will be 7 different types as I'll finish removing the chardonnay and will have the space replanted with prarie star and petite pearl. I'll have all hybrids with 1 exception. I'll try and see if auxerois will live thru my cold winters or not. so far I haven't found 1 viniferas type vine that can tolerate my winter time low temps.


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## St Allie

Do you grow any other fruits?

Allie


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## Racer

We used to have over a dozen red currant bushes but they were pretty old when we moved in here and slowly died off 1 by 1 probably over 20 years ago. We did plant 2 apple trees this spring. I cant seem to get my wife to want other fruit trees around for some reason.


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## St Allie

Racer said:


> We used to have over a dozen red currant bushes but they were pretty old when we moved in here and slowly died off 1 by 1 probably over 20 years ago. We did plant 2 apple trees this spring. I cant seem to get my wife to want other fruit trees around for some reason.



hehehe.. suggest buying a large property with the intent to plant vines and fruit and watch her freak?

( ok that was naughty of me.. I just smacked my own hand..)

Currants need specialist pruning every fall or the plants will die.

I have put black, red and yellow currants in this year.. I think my climate won't be perfect for it.. but we have a lot of hard frosts .. so we may have enough accumulated cold to allow for fruit set.

Allie


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## Racer

St Allie said:


> hehehe.. suggest buying a large property with the intent to plant vines and fruit and watch her freak?



Funny you should say that. We've been paying on a land purchase in North Carolina for about 5 years now. Our intention is to try and move there in about 8-10 more years.We will be planting a vineyard there, somewhere between 2-4 acres.


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## St Allie

heheh..

well that's enough for a homewinery set up.. I have 8 acres here altogether and hubby dragged me out to look at glasshouses recently. I don't want one.. my shadehouse provides all I need. Can't see the point in growing stuff out of season. Makes more sense to grow things that need little to no maintenance seasonally.

Why buy a glasshouse for 4k to grow $300 dollars worth of out of season veg a year? He was saying to the guy that sells glasshouses.. "oh I think a higher wall height would suit me better" ( $1500 more exp!).. at which point I said to hubby.. "and how much glasshouse gardening will you be doing?" his response ...

" oh no, that's your domain.. I'll just be delivering your cup of tea"

$1500 extra so he can deliver the cup of tea without bending down to get into the glasshouse?..

I wonder sometimes...

Allie


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## Racer

Well what can I say to that. I've gardened for over 20 years now and just in the last 2-3 years My better half is starting to see the difference in home grown organics and grocery store produce. Just like making wine I guess some patience is required.


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## St Allie

hehhehe.. well he does the hard landscaping and the chainsaw work for the property..so I can't complain.. dunno where this glasshouse idea came from.. 

He is interested in the garden though.

Is north carolina quite a distance from you?.. 

Allie


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## Racer

We currently live near the northeast edge of Illinois right now. So yes it is quite far away from North Carolina. Its also 3 hardiness zones difference between the 2 locations.With winter just ahead of us I'm already dreading -10ºF temperatures I'm sure we'll see here. The piedmont area of North Carolina only sees temps get down to 10ºF.


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