# My 2nd boil (a lesson learned)



## Elmer (Mar 6, 2015)

For my second boil I went with a LHBS Cream ale kit. For those that are unaware a Cream ale is a mostly a regional beer, a light bodied ale, which is usually crisp and low on hops. It is sometimes refered to as a “lawnmower Ale”.
I was not aware at the time of purchase but this kit was all extract. I guess these are the things we Overlook when you bring you kids to the LHBS on your way to a kids birthday party.
Atleast I had a few store coupons and got the kit for nearly ½ off, which is good because I have very low expectations for the batch.

This time around I tried something different and held off on the LME until almost flame out. I added ¼ of the LME at around 20 mins, the other ½ at 5 min and the last ¼ at flame out.
This is also my first time using whrifloc, so we will see how it goes.
The recipe is as follows:

3.3# LME (light)
2# DME (gold)
1oz Cascade (60 min boil)
.5 cascade (15 min boil)
.5 hallertau (15min boil)
Windsor Ale yeas

After chilling, which took much longer than anticipated ( I had an ice bath in the sink, when that warmed up I put the wort in the garage which was 10F), I took an SG reading and got 1.040. After conversion due to heat it was up to 1.042. Still that was a low SG, when the directions indicated the SG could be between 1.042 and 1.056. In order to reach an abv of 4, I will have to reach a FG of 1.010
This sent me on a journey of learning more about fermentables. Come to find out LME has 36 points per lb, DME has 44 points per LB.
Therefore my kits fermentables would look like this:

LME 3.3x36= 118.8
DME 2x44= 88

206.8 / 5 =41.36

that be an SG og 1.041?

I guess I was ignorant to the idea of fermentables and how it relates to SG. I just blindly thought that like wine must there was a varying amount of sugar. However with a boil this is not the case. I could have trouble shot and taken steps to increase the SG, but I did not have any of the needed material.

I guess in a more perfect world I should have had some DME & LME stored away, just in case.
Anyway, once the wort cooled, I placed in a closet and it was bubbling by next morning. And 2 days later the bubbling had finished.

After a week I moved the bucket to the basement, where it is slightly cooler. The bucket lid has already subsided, as it was bulging during the bubbling phase. I am thinking of bottling after 2 weeks in primary instead of 3.
Bottling in 22OZ bottles and just get this batch behind me, and start plotting out my next boil (I have a new found love affair with Black IPA)

On a positive note I now have the knowledge of fermentables, which will allow me to start and construct my own recipe. This was I can randomly start to pick up ingredients (dme & LME & grain)
BTW here is a malt chart if anyone is interested:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart 

I have also informed the LHBS that put together this kit, that I will no longer purchase anything they put together.


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## Elmer (Mar 6, 2015)

Forgot to add the only picture I had of This boil


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## olusteebus (Mar 6, 2015)

IN the two beers I have made, I cooled the wort by pouring in a bag of ice which gives slightly more than a gallon of water. I compensate with the initial water addition. May be wrong but it cools the wort quickly.


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## Elmer (Mar 6, 2015)

olusteebus said:


> IN the two beers I have made, I cooled the wort by pouring in a bag of ice which gives slightly more than a gallon of water. I compensate with the initial water addition. May be wrong but it cools the wort quickly.



I have been warned about adding ice. Some brewers have indicated that ice has microbes or infections from the ice plant.
Then again I am starting to notice that homebrewers are a very paranoid bunch when it comes to contamination and infection.

I usually start my boil with 2.5 gallon of tap water. I purchase 3 gallons of bottled water. I dump 1 gallon into the ferm bucket and leave the other 2 sitting at room temp and then use them to top up to 5 gal.

I think moving forward I am going to chill the bottled water before adding to the bucket to help chil the wort.

I am also toying with the idea of cold crashing this weekend, but I dont know that I care that much about clarity to make it worth my time and effort!


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## BernardSmith (Mar 6, 2015)

I wish I had the hard science background. I don't. But I think that water has a greater ability to transfer heat than air (heat transfer coefficients, I think is the metric) - in other words, an ice bath or even a cold water bath is more likely to allow a faster transfer of heat from your kettle than even colder air in your garage - which is why , for example, it does not make very good sense to take your hot wort and simply put it in your freezer for 20 minutes. But sticking it outside on foot or so of snow will reduce the temperature


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## olusteebus (Mar 6, 2015)

Maybe next time I will just toss some frozen water bottles in the wort. Sanitized of course. If not that, I will freeze my filtered water


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## ibglowin (Mar 6, 2015)

If you take a frozen steak out of the freezer to thaw and leave it on the counter top with just air exchange it will take all day. Put the same steak in the sink with warm water and it will be completely thawed in about 30-40 mins. Much better heat exchange with water plus you get to cook the steak in no time!


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## Elmer (Mar 6, 2015)

I have a small sink and when the water warmed up, I drained and had to refill. During this time I put the wort in the garage. I figure if it was going to sit someplace for 5 minutes while I refilled the sink, outside was best.

Next time I am buying an extra bag of ice and using an oversized bucket my kids keep their toys in. This filled with ice should do the job, otherwise I just might throw some frozen steaks in the wort!


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## jswordy (Mar 8, 2015)

Elmer, what I learned in my first 5-gallon boil is, get more ice next time. I was short ice on the boil. Not next time. We have these mini-plants down here where you pull up and get a cooler full of ice for a couple bucks. I should have made the extra 15-minute drive instead of buying a big bag. Ice and water combined do a better heat transfer job than ice alone, too. The really crucial thing about the cool down is cold break, say my advisers. Get a fast cool and a good break, and you wind up with much clearer beer.

Now, people are going to say get a wort chiller, but my kitchen faucet does not have a screw-on filter, so that could only be used outside with the garden hose. I have enough copper pipe to make my own, but no place to hook it up indoors.

I too bought a kit and found it to be mostly extract on delivery. I was very surprised. It's my next Scottish ale. My first one had 4 different adjunct grains with it. The mostly LME kit was a lot more expensive, too.

So far, I have had two kits with two different instructions about ice in the wort. Cooper's say throw it right in, no worries. Brewer's Best says do not add ice to the wort. I followed instructions for both kits, and got good beer doing it both ways. Tossing ice in the wort does help with cold break. I know some brewers freeze water in half-gallon milk jugs and float them in the wort just like you suggest. I have 3 freezers and yet no space for that.

My main thing next time is just to have more than 23 pounds of ice on hand. It will take about 40 or even 50 to really do a 5-gallon boil. Since that's like $5 worth of ice at these mini-plants we have around, no worries on costs.

I used a molasses tub for my chilling bucket. This tub has molasses cattle feed shipped in it. The cows eat it, and I have a surplus of leftover tubs then. If I'd had more ice, it would have been fine. That's how we learn! LOL.





On a side note, I have been looking at YouTube, viewing the videos about making your own all-grain equipment. I'm getting interested. My chief objection before was the staggering cost of equipment but DIY stuff is a lot cheaper.


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## HB_in_Subic (Mar 12, 2015)

I use a wort chiller but the tap water is too warm (84F). I toss in a frozen 1.5L bottle of mineral water and pour an Ice cold 1.5L bottle of the same over the floating ice cube. Also whirlpool the water helps dissipate the heat. Once I reach 95F I then put my kettle in a cooler filled with half water and 15lbs of cube ice. I continue to whirlpool and it drops 20F in about 8-10 minutes. 

I have never had an issue with my beer from the bottled water ice in my wort.


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## jswordy (Mar 17, 2015)

Guy here bought this franchise, has them all over the place...pretty cheap ice source.


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## Elmer (Mar 22, 2015)

I ended up racking off 1 gallon and leaving as is.
The other 4 I dry hopped with 1 oz citra hop.
I bottled the non hopped in friday, racked and cold crashed the rest on sat.
Bottled the rest today.
None of these have any similarity to a cream ale as I was initially led to believe at the time of purchase.


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## wineinmd (Mar 22, 2015)

Dry hopping is way out of style for a cream ale. A full ounce of dry hops in 4 gallons of a light brew is going to give it the overwhelming aroma of an IPA.


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## wineinmd (Mar 22, 2015)

If you want to start putting together your own recipes, check out the recipe section on the homebrewtalk site. That's where I've gotten most of the ones I've done.


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## Elmer (Mar 23, 2015)

wineinmd said:


> Dry hopping is way out of style for a cream ale. A full ounce of dry hops in 4 gallons of a light brew is going to give it the overwhelming aroma of an IPA.



Considering that this batch was nowhere near being a "cream ale" (for which I blame the LHBS for selling me a kit that is out of intended style), I tried to turn the disaster into an experiment.
The beer turned out to be a very light ale, so I tried to add a flavor.




wineinmd said:


> If you want to start putting together your own recipes, check out the recipe section on the homebrewtalk site. That's where I've gotten most of the ones I've done.



I have been all over that.
I actually have 2 recipes prepared an IPA and a Citra Cream Ale (summer brew)


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## wineinmd (Mar 23, 2015)

I hope it turns out. I like me some Citra, so I imagine it will be pretty good, but a full ounce in 4 gallons is going to be very noticeable. The aroma might overpower any maltiness or crispness that you otherwise would have tasted in a lighter ale, especially at the beginning. That aroma will fade with time though if it is too strong for you out of the gate. 

My favorite recipe so far has been the Caramel Amber Ale. I highly recommend that one if you like the style. The only thing I'd change is to swap out the Chinook for something a little more citrusy/fruity like a Cascade or Centennial, since I'm not a fan of the piney/resinous taste of the Chinook. It did fade/blend with time and turned out great in the end.


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## jswordy (Mar 23, 2015)

Your beer turned out nice and clear! Try Cascade as an aroma or dry hop. 1 oz in 5 gallons. Citrusy and tasty.


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## Elmer (Mar 23, 2015)

jswordy said:


> Your beer turned out nice and clear! Try Cascade as an aroma or dry hop. 1 oz in 5 gallons. Citrusy and tasty.



I cold crashed for 24 hours prior to bottling.
I have to say it make a big difference in clarity!


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## Elmer (Mar 24, 2015)

wineinmd said:


> Dry hopping is way out of style for a cream ale. A full ounce of dry hops in 4 gallons of a light brew is going to give it the overwhelming aroma of an IPA.




I was incorrect when I indicated 1 oz for a dry hop, it was actually .5 oz.

and technically this is not a real cream ale (even if the LHBS insists it is), but we will see how it goes!


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## wineinmd (Mar 24, 2015)

I think you'll end up with a good beer, but like you said, not a cream ale. The Windsor yeast and the Hallertau hops would give you some English ale backbone with some citrusy/floral taste/aroma from the Cascade and Citra. That's a bit of an unusual pairing, but it'll probably be a nice, low ABV spring/summer drinker.


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## Elmer (Mar 24, 2015)

wineinmd said:


> I think you'll end up with a good beer, but like you said, not a cream ale. The Windsor yeast and the Hallertau hops would give you some English ale backbone with some citrusy/floral taste/aroma from the Cascade and Citra. That's a bit of an unusual pairing, but it'll probably be a nice, low ABV spring/summer drinker.



I have no doubt it will be drinkable.


Incidentally I have been arguing back and forth with my LHBS.
I have been informing them that this is NOT a cream ale.
LHBS has told me it is and otherwise wont listen to reason.

Eitherway, I have learned a lesson and I have beer that is conditioning and will be drinkable (hopefully) in 3 weeks!


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## wineinmd (Mar 24, 2015)

If you want to pursue it with them further, you can try plugging your ingredients into the recipe creator on Brewer's Friend and compare it to the BJCP style guidelines. I did a quick run, using a 5.0 gallon batch size and 2.5 gallon boil size, and using their estimated FG of 1.011, it is out of style low on ABV and high on IBUs for a cream ale, using their estimates of 7% AA on the Cascades and 3.9% on the Hallertau.

Based on what you've said about them so far, it probably won't do you much good. They probably don't care a whole lot about the BJCP guidelines.


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## Elmer (Mar 24, 2015)

wineinmd said:


> If you want to pursue it with them further, you can try plugging your ingredients into the recipe creator on Brewer's Friend and compare it to the BJCP style guidelines. I did a quick run, using a 5.0 gallon batch size and 2.5 gallon boil size, and using their estimated FG of 1.011, it is out of style low on ABV and high on IBUs for a cream ale, using their estimates of 7% AA on the Cascades and 3.9% on the Hallertau.
> 
> Based on what you've said about them so far, it probably won't do you much good. They probably don't care a whole lot about the BJCP guidelines.



I am moving on to my next recipe.
Luckily one of the better LHBS has some recipe's posted by style and variant.
I just spoke to the guy about tweeking a recipe I have been working up.

1# Flaked Maize (Corn),
1# Pilsner Malt 
3.3# Pilsen LME
2# Pilsen DME

1 oz Cascade hop pellets (5.5 AAU) full hour.
½ oz Cascade pellets (2.8 AAU) 15 min of boil.
½ oz Cascade pellets at flame out

Brewers friend indicates a 5.47%ABV IBU: 26.01


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## wineinmd (Mar 24, 2015)

Onward and upward!

The Brewer's Friend recipe creator is a good starting point if you're interested in developing a recipe from scratch or want to figure out how changes to a certain recipe will affect ABV, IBU, color, etc. Let's say you find a recipe that use Cascades with 10% AA and the ones at your LHBS are 7%. You can run the original recipe into the calculator to determine the IBU. You could then change the AA% down to 7 and then increase the amount until you get back to the target IBU. You could do the same thing if you want to increase or decrease the ABV but keep the rest of the stats the same. 

It can also calculate the changes necessary if you want to scale the recipe or if you want to assume a different batch efficiency.


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## Elmer (Apr 4, 2015)

2 weeks in the bottle & I couldn't wait, popped a bottle and it has carb. 
I tried one that was dry hopped with 1/2 oz citra .
It is very hoppy, very light body. It is light enough that I downed it in about 3 mins, But at 4% it packs a punch if you drink too quick.
I have yet to try the in hopped version


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## jswordy (Apr 9, 2015)

Oh that looks really good!


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## Elmer (Apr 10, 2015)

jswordy said:


> Oh that looks really good!



Cold crashing really helped clear it up.
Now that the warm weather has hit I will have to be inventive to cold crash!


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## wineinmd (Apr 10, 2015)

I just tossed a bunch of bottles of water into the freezer. I plan on turning my swamp cooler into a cold crashing bucket.


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