# Oak Chips vs Spirals vs. Beans



## laneygirl (Nov 26, 2007)

Has anyone done any calculations on surface area provided by these three alternatives now offered for the home wine maker looking to add oak without using barrels and do more than the dust that comes with so many kits? 


I have done a couple CC kits that come with Hungarian oak cubes and recently saw the spirals in a store and bought them for the fun of it and some future use.


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## Wade E (Nov 26, 2007)

I dont have any statistics but believe that cubes and spirals are the way to go and for the price believe cubes are much more affordable and will give a better surface area.


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## Dean (Nov 27, 2007)

Masta and George did some experimentation with the spirals, and they found the oak extraction to be quite dramatic, so the key with those is taste testing. I think they over oaked quite quickly with the spirals.


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## JimCook (Nov 27, 2007)

The scientist in me wants to do experiments with the cubes at half-volume but longer time to see how the taste/tannin extraction compares. The wines that I have oaked (all of mine) have all been with Stavin cubes using 3 ounces per 6 gallons of wine currently. Different wines take on the oak characteristics at different rates (seems not to correlate with the 'fullness' of the wine, interestingly enough), but I don't have any that have been aging for a year after being taken off the oak to see how much the oak tames. All things in time...


Jim


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## Jack on Rainy (Nov 28, 2007)

The surface area of dawdust and dust is FAR greater per volume or
weight than cubes, spirals, or battens but I wonder about the relative
extractable component of each of those. Also, the extraction period may
vary relative to ABV. WE puts the dust/sawdust in primary and MM puts
them in partway through primary. Seems there is some more ART in this
whole process! I'm trying cubes next time. Battens worked very well in
my WE Amarone and in a WE Lodi Zin. I don't think the dust works well
enough.


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## laneygirl (Nov 29, 2007)

Jack on Rainy said:


> The surface area of dawdust and dust is FAR greater per volume or weight than cubes, spirals, or battens but I wonder about the relative extractable component of each of those. Also, the extraction period may vary relative to ABV. WE puts the dust/sawdust in primary and MM puts them in partway through primary. Seems there is some more ART in this whole process! I'm trying cubes next time. Battens worked very well in my WE Amarone and in a WE Lodi Zin. I don't think the dust works well enough.




What are battens? The MM ME Granbarolo kit that I just received has more like oak chips and not saw dust...do they include saw dust in their regular All Juice kits?


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## Jack on Rainy (Nov 29, 2007)

They are strips of oak about 5" long by 3/4" wide by 3/16" thick and
have a steel weight in the end. They are strung together so there are
two of them vertically on a monofilament line which hangs from the
bottom of the stopper. The selling point is even distrubution of
extraction over the height of the carboy. At least that is what sold
me! However, I just bought cubes......



As to the MM All Juice kits, I've only started five so far and can't
remember for sure(my notes missed that item) but think that all were
chips and some had two kinds of chips.


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## donking2010 (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a quick question about the spirals. Do you guys just use them once or do you clean and sanitize them for additional batches?


If for more batches how many can you get out of the spirals?


Can you use the Chips, Beans oranything else more than once?


Thanks
Brian


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## Wade E (Jan 3, 2008)

I would imagine that all oak would be exhausted after 1 use but if any of them would have any life left it would be the spiral but i would risk using it again anyway. Not worth the risk in my opinion.


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## grapeman (Jan 4, 2008)

The oak spirals are good for up to 6 months of extraction total. If you use them in a batch for 2 months, then you can reuse them after cleaning and sanitizing for another 4 months total. 


Some folks reuse the chips and cubes, to smoke their grills!


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## JimCook (Jan 4, 2008)

Brian,


Stavin notes that you can reuse the cubes/beans conditionally - they need to be used right away and used preferably in the primary the second time around. I, however, have not personally done this and am not so fond of the 'recycled' approach to the wood, which doesn't add that much total cost to a batch.


Jim


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