# Best finishing/aging tannin for Reds



## Geronimo (Dec 20, 2013)

I've been using Tancor Grand Cru for about a year now and my only complaint is the cost. The RJS RQ Grenache Syrah is particularly good with this tannin incorporated. 

What is everyone using for a finishing/aging tannin?


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 20, 2013)

How much are you using? It's not cheap, but a little goes a long way.


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## SouthernChemist (Dec 20, 2013)

How much are you adding? The recommended dosage is 10-30 g/hL...or about 0.378-1.14 g/gallon. I feel that positive effects can be noticed even with the minimum dosage.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 20, 2013)

I use either Tannin Complex or Tannin Estate as a cellaring tannin depending on the wine, and Tannin Riche or Tannin Riche Extra as a finishing tannin, once again, depending on the wine.


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## Geronimo (Dec 21, 2013)

My dosage is about 3g per 6 gallons. So yes, a little goes a long way.


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## geek (Dec 21, 2013)

Pumpkinman said:


> I use either Tannin Complex or Tannin Estate as a cellaring tannin depending on the wine, and Tannin Riche or Tannin Riche Extra as a finishing tannin, once again, depending on the wine.



Tom,

for cellaring tannin, is regular '*Wine Tannin Powder*' ok or similar?
I have a 1lb bag I bought some time ago shown in this link included below and I want to put it to work and use, maybe not as good as Tannin Complex/Tannin Estate but good/close enough for the job?

Wine Tannin Powder

I have both a Super Tuscan kiy and fresh grape Merlot/Cabernet blend almost ready to bulk age (kit almost done with secondary fermentation and Merlot/Cab almost done with MLF).

I got Tannin Riche coming Tuesday but will use as finishing tannin later on. 
Thanks.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 21, 2013)

Varis, 
I look at it like this, it's like going to a deli and only being able to order "Sandwich", it may be good, but I'd rather buy and add something that I know what the contents are, and what it is derived from.
I'd bet that the pound of wine tannin didn't cost too much more than a few grams of the tannins that are available for specific stages of aging, there is a reason for that. 
Different tannins bring different qualities to the wine, some enhance mid-palate and complexity while providing a measure of anti-oxidant protection, some enhance structure, aids color stabilization and provides anti-oxidant protection, some are more useful in wines with up-front fruit or where smooth tannin structure is lacking, others impart hints of coconut and vanilla together with a perception of sweetness that can contribute the final touch to your wine and some give a heightened perception of vanillin oak character that works well in conjunction with low doses of other tannins and can help smooth a wine’s finish.
In all honesty, you really get what you pay for, whether it is tannins, MLB, and so on, I'd ditch the Bag O' Tannin and use tannins that have a proven track record in the wine making industry, using the right product can mean the difference between a mediocre flat wine or an outstanding wine with body, mouthfeel, great color and aroma and the perfect level of tannin, this can be accomplished from a juice bucket.


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## geek (Dec 21, 2013)

I know what you mean, that bag I bought costs ~$8.67, not sure if you look at the ingredients from that link. It contains Chestnut extract (Castanea sativa according to the bag).

I bought the tannin riche but none of the Tannin Complex or Tannin Estate,,,,

Time for another order....


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## sour_grapes (Dec 21, 2013)

I am no expert, but I think you could profitably use the generic wine tannin in the primary as a sacrificial tannin. What do you think of that idea, Tom?


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 21, 2013)

Paul, if you were going to use a generic as a sacrificial, which I think s a great idea, I would make sure that it is derived from oak or grape based tannin, there are fermentation/sacrificial tannins that are blends of chestnut and oak based tannins.
Good thinking Paul!
Varis, there are a slew of different tannins that may fit your needs.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 21, 2013)

I don't completely follow, Tom. Varis has indicated that his LD Carlson tannins are derived from chestnut. Does that mean you think he shouldn't use it as a sacrificial? (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth; I am just trying to tease out what you said in the last post.)


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 22, 2013)

Paul, that is perfectly fine, what I was trying to say is that I would rather get a tannin that is a combination of either oak and/or grape tannin combined with chestnut instead of just chestnut. I'd stay away from the cheap bulk bags and get something a little bit more specific. I was totally shocked when I started using the better quality tannins, the best examples I can give are:
I had a batch of wine that I absolutely loved become really stinky, rotten eggs, in all of my testing, apparently, I forgot this batch of wine. I had to use Redulees to correct the problem, and it was successful at correcting the problem, but Redulees can strip some of the body and basic sensory profile from a wine, I was a bit upset until I started adding tannin riche and tannin riche extra, I used a finishing tannin because the wine was in the final months of aging. I added small amounts at a time, and today the wine is a real amazing wine, not only did it bring back some of the mouthfeel and body, but it gave it a nice flavor profile of vanilla and caramel, a slight perception of sweetness, and a bit of the astringency that we expect from this type of wine.
The other example is based on Juice bucket wine, I've heard so many people say that wine made from Juice buckets are flabby and watered down, the use of tannins and oak can really change that around and bring the best out of the wine.


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## geek (Dec 22, 2013)

Tom,
Points taken.

Have you purchased the different tannin riche in bulk. Midwest seemed to only have the small packets, last time I checked.


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## Geronimo (Dec 22, 2013)

Morewine carries those tannins in bulk.


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## geek (Dec 22, 2013)

thanks Geronimo, will take a look.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 22, 2013)

Yeah, I bought (after reading your article, Tom) some Tannin Riche from our own Doug (http://brewandwinesupply.com). I also wanted to try Tancor Grand Cru, which other members recommend, but could only find it at MoreWine. Next time I make MoreWine order I'll probably nab it, but it is pretty $pendy.


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## geek (Dec 22, 2013)

Here's a pdf I found with more good info :
http://www.thebeveragepeople.com/pdf/webwinepdf/WineCatalog2013.pdf


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## geek (Dec 22, 2013)

Tom,

how exactly do you add the tannin packets to the wine, do you mix it up with a bit of warm wine to make sure it is dissolved and then add to the carboy to stir, or you pour packet directly in carboy and then stir?

..


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 22, 2013)

Varis,
I take some of the wine from the carboy, I take the amount of tannin that I want to use and mix it up, add to the wine and gently stir, in a few weeks, I come back to taste the wine to see if I need anything else. Varis, Thebeveragepeople.com has some really nice products.
Paul, Tancor Grand Cru is a real nice Tannin as well, it is a cellaring tannin.
Good Choice!


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 22, 2013)

sour_grapes said:


> Yeah, I bought (after reading your article, Tom) some Tannin Riche from our own Doug (http://brewandwinesupply.com). I also wanted to try Tancor Grand Cru, which other members recommend, but could only find it at MoreWine. Next time I make MoreWine order I'll probably nab it, but it is pretty $pendy.



Finevinewines also carries the Grand Cru.


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## geek (Dec 22, 2013)

Thanks Tom.
Yeah, just found that site and looks like good prices for bulk buying tannin.

I need to order tannin estate for these 2 batches going on bulk age. I ordered the tannin riche only (darn), and have long drive trip to FL this Thursday.
I wanted to add the cellaring tannin now that I will rack tomorrow, I guess they have to wait. 
M&M doesn't seem to have tannin estate per their site, will check Maltose.


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## Pumpkinman (Dec 22, 2013)

Whatever type of tannin you chose, make sure that you read up on it in order to make the best additions for your wine.
Jim, thanks for the heads up on the tannin!


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## RegionRat (Dec 22, 2013)

geek said:


> Here's a pdf I found with more good info :
> http://www.thebeveragepeople.com/pdf/webwinepdf/WineCatalog2013.pdf



Great info. Thanks for sharing

RR


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## Putterrr (Dec 30, 2013)

how long after adding Tancor Grand Cru is it OK to bottle?

thx


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## Geronimo (Dec 31, 2013)

Putterrr said:


> how long after adding Tancor Grand Cru is it OK to bottle?
> 
> thx



They say at least 3 weeks, but 6+ weeks is optimal. I usually go 4 months. Not sure why the tannin wouldn't do the same thing in a bottle as it does in a 6 gallon carboy....


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