# disappearing grapevine mystery...



## JCBurg (May 30, 2018)

I need help identifying the culprit of this problem. The plant posted in the picture below was over 8 in long and i went out to tie him this afternoon and he was gone! What could possibly cause this?


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## sour_grapes (May 31, 2018)

Do you have deer in your area?


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## Masbustelo (May 31, 2018)

O rabbits, or groundhogs, or chiguire?


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## JCBurg (May 31, 2018)

Yes and yes. I don’t think the deer are coming in. There is plenty of food away from humans. But the rodents maybe... would they just eat leaves and stems? How would I keep them away?


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## Johnd (May 31, 2018)

Try using growing tubes, made to prevent exactly what just happened.


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## JCBurg (May 31, 2018)

Johnd said:


> Try using growing tubes, made to prevent exactly what just happened.


I think that’s a good idea but I have read that it makes a weak vine. Also can I still put them on after the vines have started growing?


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## salcoco (May 31, 2018)

yes they can be p;laced on now. it doesn't make a weak vine, in fact it provide protection against weed sprays as well. alternate place a tube of fencing around each plant. do not disregard deer, they wander around and will always eat anything that taste delicious to them regardless of other food available
.


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## JCBurg (May 31, 2018)

salcoco said:


> yes they can be p;laced on now. it doesn't make a weak vine, in fact it provide protection against weed sprays as well. alternate place a tube of fencing around each plant. do not disregard deer, they wander around and will always eat anything that taste delicious to them regardless of other food available
> .


Is there any difference between blue and white? I’ve read that the blue and or green ones are better but I would like to hear it from the horses mouth


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## Johnd (May 31, 2018)

The only difference that I can imagine that color would make, is the tendency for darker colors to absorb more sunlight and therefore be hotter. All you are trying to do is allow your vines to get up higher without being regularly nipped off by critters, many of which operate pretty close to the ground. Deer will get into anything above ground and will even stand on their hind legs to eat something that they want. If you're having deer problems, the tubes won't protect what's not inside of them, many folks resort to deer fences, propane cannons, chemical barriers, and the like.................


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## Masbustelo (May 31, 2018)

You can also make chicken wire or hardware cloth cages.


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## JCBurg (May 31, 2018)

We’ll I miss probably going to pick up some grow tubes today. I already have chicken wire so if this doesn’t fix it then I will probably put that up as well. I want to thank everyone for the advice! As usual this has been a wonderful resource and I hope I can pay it forward some day when I have the knowledge.


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## salcoco (May 31, 2018)

blue ones are cheaper but will only last about two season. they are just a plastic sheet placed inside a blue plastic bag. other are beige and made of hard plastic these will last quite while.one trick that I found helpful, as the vine grow and peak outside the top of the grow tube the deer will prune the top of the exposed vine and cause the vine to grow more shoots than desire. what I do then is raise the tube and fasten to a wire so that about a foot or more of the vine is exposed below the tube but the new growth is protected. you might need to do this in second year. once growth is at top cordon deer seem to ignore what they can't see.


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## JCBurg (May 31, 2018)

That’s a great tip! Thank you!


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## balatonwine (Jun 1, 2018)

salcoco said:


> it doesn't make a weak vine
> .



Well, actually, growth tubes "might" result in weak roots, thus weak vines. And other issues:

http://articles.extension.org/pages/31143/using-grow-tubes-in-vineyards

In other words, and as is so often the issue to consider in wine making (and agriculture) "it depends" is a common factor, as there are a lot of local needs and variables to consider for each wine grower.


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## JCBurg (Jun 1, 2018)

It’s funny you linked to that article because it’s one I read a while ago that made me shy away in the first place. You’re point, though, about the variables is correct and, after some advice here, I think I want to use them. I’m not growing a commercial venture here, I’m starting my first vines while I make my first fruit wines. I just need to get through the process and make it to a finished product, so a little protection from animals and to help get the vine grow is ok for now. Because I will be better prepared with a better method of predator control in the future.


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## BigH (Jun 1, 2018)

That looks like deer damage to me. Grapes are tough and this guy will probably come back, but you need to deal with the rodent now.

When I planted my vineyard, I read a study of first year root development on vines with and without grow tubes. Their article contained pictures of roots that compared the two treatments. The vines without grow tubes grew quite a bit more root mass .... but .... they didn't have rodents coming in and munching on the vines. They also strictly controlled weeds to eliminate it as a variable.

So, in a rodent free, weed free vineyard, you would probably be better off without grow tubes. From the picture you posted, you appear to have neither of those things. IMO, your best option is to put grow tubes on to protect from rodents, and try to limit weed competition. Consider installing an electric fence or using deer repellent when the shoots emerge from the top of the grow tube

Good luck.
H


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## fathertom (Jun 2, 2018)

Here in Texas, I just planted another 300 vines, and I wouldn't think of not using grow tubes. I buy the 32 inch cardboard tubes for 37 cents each, and they hook well to the canes by using a zip tie to tie them to the cordon wire. The wind would beat the vines to death if I didn't use grow tubes, and the rabbits would eat them to look like yours. In less than a month, some of my vines are nearing 36 inches. You should get second growth buds on your vines. About a month from the first frost, you just pull the tubes off to harden the plants for freezing. If you have rabbits, then you pick the leaves from the bottom of the vines so they don't chew. Hope you do well this summer.


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## JCBurg (Jun 2, 2018)

BigH said:


> That looks like deer damage to me. Grapes are tough and this guy will probably come back, but you need to deal with the rodent now.
> 
> When I planted my vineyard, I read a study of first year root development on vines with and without grow tubes. Their article contained pictures of roots that compared the two treatments. The vines without grow tubes grew quite a bit more root mass .... but .... they didn't have rodents coming in and munching on the vines. They also strictly controlled weeds to eliminate it as a variable.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that’s inciteful and it helps make me feel more comfortable with the grow tube decision. I appreciate you checking in on my post!


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## JCBurg (Jun 2, 2018)

BigH said:


> That looks like deer damage to me. Grapes are tough and this guy will probably come back, but you need to deal with the rodent now.
> 
> When I planted my vineyard, I read a study of first year root development on vines with and without grow tubes. Their article contained pictures of roots that compared the two treatments. The vines without grow tubes grew quite a bit more root mass .... but .... they didn't have rodents coming in and munching on the vines. They also strictly controlled weeds to eliminate it as a variable.
> 
> ...


It sure would be nice to live in a world with perfect vineyards that have no rodents or weeds and 70 degrees with 14 hours of sun.


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## MeadowStationVines (Jun 12, 2018)

I have a lot of rabbits in my area so I needed something for the little vines to get them going and also read about the grow tubes so I used the milk cartons. They are really inexpensive and worked quite well. I also would not worry too much about that vine. I had deer come through and “prune” almost an entire row of vines last year and that row seems to be doing really well this year.


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## susieqz (Jun 13, 2018)

both rats n rabbits eat young growing shoots,
i solved this when i saw a feral cat in my garden.
i feed her in exchange for her hunting my garden.
both rats n rabbits are extinct in this area.
often, you can get barn cats free from shelters.
they charge for cuddly kits n house cats, but they just want barn cats fed.


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