# What is your favorite kit?



## Doug’s wines (Jan 29, 2018)

I’ve seen “my favorite kit” responses scattered around, but thought I would take a shot at consolidating them in one thread for people looking for ideas of “what should I do next”. I’m thinking about the definition of “Best” has many possible flavors so how about-

The best kit I’ve ever made -

Or

The kit I would make over and over -

Or

<make up your own definition> -

I also think it’s fair to allow kit tweaking as long as you let us know how you tweaked the kit ex: added x amount of oak / tannin in bulk, or added x amount of raisins / fresh fruit in primary etc. 

Also please include as much as you want on why it’s your favorite!

For me:

The one I would make over and over - WE Eclipse NZ Sav Blanc - while I’m generally a red wine drinker, I really enjoy a good Sav and NZ is my preferred region. Frankly think kit makes as good as I can buy for about 20 bucks a bottle at my local retailer. I made the mistake of giving about half of it away and now everyone wants me to make it again and I want more so I think this one is my “over and over” winner. Next time I plan to add some citrus zest in bulk to crisp it up some, but that’s my only planned tweak. 

As for the best I’ve ever made - to be honest, I’m still searching for a “best” so PLEASE help me by telling me yours!

Doug


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 30, 2018)

Red: En Primeur/Winery Series Super Tuscan - added tannin and barrel aging
White: Eclipse Sauvignon Blanc - by the book, but considering adding grapefruit zest or tartaric acid


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## Doug’s wines (Jan 30, 2018)

@Boatboy24 Thanks for the response! I have been contemplating a Super Tuscan next, so I will consider that one.


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## cmason1957 (Jan 30, 2018)

Red: En Primeur Winery Series Amarone Italian style. It comes with both raisins and grapeskins. I probably added a bit more tannin, but didn't think it needed extra oak. Bottled 4 months ago after about 6 months to a year of bulk adding. This one is tasty already and going to get better. I make 2 kits of it at a time.
Luna Bianca it was the second or third white kit I did and was very tasty early.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 30, 2018)

For me, the high point is still the CC Showcase Walla Walla Cab/Merlot.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 30, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> For me, the high point is still the CC Showcase Walla Walla Cab/Merlot.



Mine is due to come out of the barrel and will be oaked and carboy aged for a few months (only 7 months old now). I hope it lives up to expectations.


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## Doug’s wines (Jan 30, 2018)

@cmason1957 I almost listed the En Primuer Amarone as my favorite, but it’s too young to state it for sure. I did that kit with 2 partners and ended up with only 9 bottles. Really regretting that now  . Also we did it as a “wine making class” together so straight into the bottle at day 42.  May need to just suck it up and buy a kit for myself at this point. 

@sour_grapes I have never done a CC Showcase, but they seem to get high marks. Would you put them generally on the level of Eclipse and En Primier kits?


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## sour_grapes (Jan 30, 2018)

Doug’s wines said:


> @sour_grapes I have never done a CC Showcase, but they seem to get high marks. Would you put them generally on the level of Eclipse and En Primier kits?



Yes, that is correct, although I have never done an En Primeur. But the Eclipse and CC Showcase appear very similar to me, and the results are comparable, too.


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## facn1989 (Jan 31, 2018)

I have heard by many the En Primeur Amarone is good, but just noticed they the Amarone and Amarone Classico. Does anyone know which people usually refer to?


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## GaDawg (Jan 31, 2018)

Red-Winexpert Eclipse Sonoma Valley Pinot Noir without tweeks.
White- Winexpert Selection Luna Bianca. I added 30g of med French oak cubes at the end for 6 weeks.


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## pillswoj (Jan 31, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> I have heard by many the En Primeur Amarone is good, but just noticed they the Amarone and Amarone Classico. Does anyone know which people usually refer to?


Not the classic. The EP winery series Amarone is the one with both skins and raisins.


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## facn1989 (Jan 31, 2018)

pillswoj said:


> Not the classic. The EP winery series Amarone is the one with both skins and raisins.


Thanks. How about the CC Showcase Amarone. Has anyone done both? Which is better


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## pillswoj (Jan 31, 2018)

I have a CC Showcase in secondary right now will compare with the RJS in about a year.

Actually will have my daughter over to compare as she the big fan of Amarone


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## Trick (Jan 31, 2018)

pillswoj said:


> Not the classic. The EP winery series Amarone is the one with both skins and raisins.


The classic is with dry skin. I would use crushed skin. Closer to real grape.
I am doing one now. It is at the beginning of the EM. Took a taste (Day 12), very harsh! Strong alcohol flavor, very deep colour. Pretty sure it will get smooth over time.


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## Doug’s wines (Jan 31, 2018)

My experience with the EP amarone is that it needs TIME. Not one you can really enjoy young, but is one that can age nicely. 

That said, it would be great if @Trick, @facn1989 , and @pillswoj if you would be willing to post your favorite kits  . (Gently nudging back to the original topic)


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## facn1989 (Jan 31, 2018)

Doug’s wines said:


> My experience with the EP amarone is that it needs TIME. Not one you can really enjoy young, but is one that can age nicely.
> 
> That said, it would be great if @Trick, @facn1989 , and @pillswoj if you would be willing to post your favorite kits  . (Gently nudging back to the original topic)



Sadly, I just started this endeavor six months ago, so I haven't tasted a single bottle yet. I made the WE Italian Brunnello with skin pack, The WE Reserve Cab Sauv (cheap kit for early drinking), the EP Pinot Noir Rose for this upcoming summer, The EP Super Tuscan and now I have a RJS Grand Cru Malbec fermenting (cheap kit for early drinking).

Next on my list and in no particular order:

Eclipse Lodi Ranch, Sonoma Pinot Noir, Stag's Leap Merlot and Barolo. Also deciding between the CC Amarone and the EP Amarone, both have good reviews. Will also add a white eventually, probably the WE Luna Bianca or New Zealand Sauv Blanc


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## facn1989 (Jan 31, 2018)

I'm not expecting much from the mid tier kits ~$75 for the WE Vintners Reserve Cab Sauv. I made that kit with no tweaks and followed instructions exactly. I will wait 6 months before trying a bottle as I read it won't get much better than that. Has anyone made this kit without tweaks? I'm hoping it's at least decent


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## Doug’s wines (Jan 31, 2018)

@facn1989 I suggest bottling a few half bottles of each run and trying them starting around 3-6 months. They age a little faster and give you an idea of how the wine is turning out. Plus I applaud your ability to wait as I would have torn into them by now!


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## mainshipfred (Jan 31, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> Sadly, I just started this endeavor six months ago, so I haven't tasted a single bottle yet. I made the WE Italian Brunnello with skin pack, The WE Reserve Cab Sauv (cheap kit for early drinking), the EP Pinot Noir Rose for this upcoming summer, The EP Super Tuscan and now I have a RJS Grand Cru Malbec fermenting (cheap kit for early drinking).
> 
> Next on my list and in no particular order:
> 
> Eclipse Lodi Ranch, Sonoma Pinot Noir, Stag's Leap Merlot and Barolo. Also deciding between the CC Amarone and the EP Amarone, both have good reviews. Will also add a white eventually, probably the WE Luna Bianca or New Zealand Sauv Blanc



Good for you for waiting, I waited 10 months for my first bottle and it was a 10L WE Malbec by the book. It's fine but nothing special. The other kits were RJS En Primeur Pinot Noir and Trio Red and a Mosti 23L Amarosso. All bottled and 9-10 months old and all pretty good. I do have a hard time buying kits though because of the cost so everything after these are juice, grapes or a combination. To me it's more fun then kits but I haven't bottled any of these yet so fingers crossed. Sorry, I lied, I'm now fermenting 3 Island Mist kits. They are for my wife and those who don't like dry reds. I bumped the potential ABV to +/- 13%, only made 5 gallons, added fruit and adjusted acid up to around 3.5. So I can't tell you exactly what I like best or will do again. I'm just happy nothing sucks.


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## pillswoj (Jan 31, 2018)

My favourites are tough to define, been making since the 80's. The one Eclipse that I loved is the Stags Leap Merlot, RJS use to have a Winery Series Meritage that was fabulous after 18-24 months but it sadly is no longer available. I try to do all the Limited Editions from both RJS and WE, but the last couple of years many of the WE ones have been meh to my mind. I love the RJS EP Amarone, but based on a thread I read here am trying a CC Showcase Amarone. 


After this year's Limited Editions I plan on trying the CC showcase Cab Merlot and the RJS EP Grenache Syrah


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## facn1989 (Feb 1, 2018)

pillswoj said:


> My favourites are tough to define, been making since the 80's. The one Eclipse that I loved is the Stags Leap Merlot, RJS use to have a Winery Series Meritage that was fabulous after 18-24 months but it sadly is no longer available. I try to do all the Limited Editions from both RJS and WE, but the last couple of years many of the WE ones have been meh to my mind. I love the RJS EP Amarone, but based on a thread I read here am trying a CC Showcase Amarone.
> 
> 
> After this year's Limited Editions I plan on trying the CC showcase Cab Merlot and the RJS EP Grenache Syrah


@pillswoj sad to hear you haven't been happy with your WE Limited Edition kits. I plan on making quite a few WE Eclipse kits, have you personally liked any of the Eclipse? I think in general people tend to prefer En Primeur to Eclipse, but Eclipse has a lot of the styles I prefer.


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## pillswoj (Feb 1, 2018)

Like I said, the SL Merlot is fantastic, I did the Pinot Noir and it is very good, but did not have skins and I think a Pinot one level down would be just as good. My wife says the Lodi Cabernet is good but I find it meh.


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## facn1989 (Feb 1, 2018)

Thanks I was thinking of making the Lodi next, but will start with the SL Merlot, then the Pinot since that's my wife's favorite. Probably then continue with the Amarone (not sure between CC and RJS, but will probably make CC), then Barolo then the Lodi. I think I'll pick my two favorites (including the RJS Super Tuscan I already made) and repeat those going forward.


pillswoj said:


> Like I said, the SL Merlot is fantastic, I did the Pinot Noir and it is very good, but did not have skins and I think a Pinot one level down would be just as good. My wife says the Lodi Cabernet is good but I find it meh.



Thanks I was thinking of making the Lodi next, but will start with the SL Merlot, then the Pinot since that's my wife's favorite. Probably then continue with the Amarone (not sure between CC and RJS, but will probably make CC), then Barolo then the Lodi. I think I'll pick my two favorites (including the RJS Super Tuscan I already made) and repeat those going forward.

For some reason, I read about the RJS Super Tuscan and Amarone, which seem to be favorites, but never heard a single comment regarding their Cab Sauv, Pinot Noir, Merlot, Shiraz, nothing at all. Just seems odd that people hold RJS to such high standards but only talk about two of their kits


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## pillswoj (Feb 1, 2018)

I wonder if that is partly a marketing thing, EP Cabernet (Australia) vs. Eclipse Lodi Cabernet.... EP Shiraz vs Eclipse Barossa Valley Shiraz.

I know if you search there are several threads comparing the different Amarone and even the super Tuscan, but have not noticed them for the other high end varieties. Would be interesting to hear if anyone has compared them side by side.


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## fivebk (Feb 1, 2018)

Renaissance Impressions Castel Del Papa...... I like a fruit forward red wine and this kit is the best one I have found so far . It is excellent !


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## facn1989 (Feb 1, 2018)

I would love to make a Shiraz but never heard anyone mention them


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## pillswoj (Feb 1, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> I would love to make a Shiraz but never heard anyone mention them


One of them is on my list do do in the next year or so. Most likely the RJS EP Shiraz


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## facn1989 (Feb 1, 2018)

Has anyone made both kits and fresh juice buckets? Just wanted to know if they're similar in quality or is the fresh juice significantly better?


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## pillswoj (Feb 1, 2018)

I am hoping to make Cab Franc from fresh Niagara must this fall


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## mainshipfred (Feb 1, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> Has anyone made both kits and fresh juice buckets? Just wanted to know if they're similar in quality or is the fresh juice significantly better?



Juice buckets (or grapes) are a little more work and require more testing. They are not neccessarily balanced but strictly varietal juice or so you hope. You have to make sure the sugar and acids are at your preferred levels. You also have the opportunity to do MLF with the juice buckets to reduce that harsh malic taste. There is more risk involved but a heck of a lot more fun and hopefully rewarding.


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## ceeaton (Feb 1, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> Has anyone made both kits and fresh juice buckets? Just wanted to know if they're similar in quality or is the fresh juice significantly better?


No kit taste so I think they can be ready to drink earlier, if you like drinking them earlier. I'd still would let either hit 18 to 24 months before regularly sampling them.

Back on topic, I really like the WE SE International Brunello w/skins kit. Mine is about 24 months old, just bottled it, and it tastes better than any other red kit I've done that doesn't have back sweetening as part of the routine. Not that I love sweet reds, but added sweetener on a non-dry kit at the end seems to hide any minor flaws and lack of aging the kits have. My brunello is pretty dry, for the record (.992).


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## Ajmassa (Feb 1, 2018)

mainshipfred said:


> Juice buckets (or grapes) are a little more work and require more testing..


 ....If you desire. I started with juice buckets in a process so basic that a kit seemed overwhelming. 
All we did was add yeast to the bucket. After fermenting just poured it through a funnel with a cheesecloth and racked a a few times over the next 6-9 months. Voila! Homemade wine. 
Favorite kit? Haven’t made tons, but surprisingly my fav was a simple WE world vineyard Pinot Noir and was my 1st kit. After starting it I immediately made others- easily discarding the lowly 1gal mid-range kit. In “bulk” over a year. Turned out great.


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## facn1989 (Feb 1, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> No kit taste so I think they can be ready to drink earlier, if you like drinking them earlier. I'd still would let either hit 18 to 24 months before regularly sampling them.
> 
> Back on topic, I really like the WE SE International Brunello w/skins kit. Mine is about 24 months old, just bottled it, and it tastes better than any other red kit I've done that doesn't have back sweetening as part of the routine. Not that I love sweet reds, but added sweetener on a non-dry kit at the end seems to hide any minor flaws and lack of aging the kits have. My brunello is pretty dry, for the record (.992).



Glad to hear that, it was the first kit I made, but never heard any reviews. It will hit the two year mark in August 2019. I love brunellos but the cheapest one you can find is probably around $30. Would you say this kit accurately displays it's characteristics?


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## ceeaton (Feb 2, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> Glad to hear that, it was the first kit I made, but never heard any reviews. It will hit the two year mark in August 2019. I love brunellos but the cheapest one you can find is probably around $30. Would you say this kit accurately displays it's characteristics?


Can't tell since I don't have the money to buy much more than a $20 bottle of wine (normally buy boxed wine for topping up batches), so it's not part of the spending plan for now. Later this Winter things will turn around monetarily in our household so I expect to start up a "wine fund" like @jgmann67 does for use on my wine making supplies and bottle purchases. When I buy a bottle I'll compare to one of the eleven "taster" bottles (375 ml) that I have and let you know (would probably end up getting posted in the "what are you drinking" thread). I'll be giving one to Jim when I get over to pick up a wine sample to do a test for him, maybe I can twist his arm to give it a taste and report back here.


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## Doug’s wines (Feb 2, 2018)

@ceeaton true Italian wine should never cost more than 10 Euros a bottle, but American (and Chinese) demand for Brunello has made the prices ridiculous.

If you want to get a sense of what the brunello will taste like, you can buy one of its little brothers, a Rosso di Montalcino or Rosso di Montepulciano. They are often from the same vineyards, but are a step lower in quality (still better than most of what we get) and thus are a little more fruit, less tannin, and see less oak, as they are designed to be drunk earlier than the Brunellos. I’ve been fortunate to tour Chianti serveral Times with stops in both Montepulciano and Montalcino and frankly IMO some of the rosso’s are as good as the Brunellos <gasp> Especially if you are just looking for a great drinking wine. Best part is few people realize what they are so they are CHEAP compared to the Brunello.

EDIT: Found a good article if you are interested in recommendations and tasting notes. I’ve had several of these and really like the Poggio Antico, Mocali, Altisino and Col d’Orcia  

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/dining/reviews/rosso-di-montalcino-wine-review.html


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## HarrysHomeBrew (Feb 3, 2018)

I have done 2 kits. Both Fontana. The first was a cab. Amazon prime for $29. It is normally $39. It as pretty good for $29. The 2nd is a Fontana Pinot Noir. Amazon prime $42. It is on its 3rd week and racked it tonight and had a taste. It was really good. Not even kidding I could drink it as is right now. Can't wait to bottle it. 

I am too new to have a best. I think this site and thread will help me. I don't know what the most I will spend on a kit in the future but the free shipping on Amazon is perfect for me now.


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## Doug’s wines (Feb 3, 2018)

@HarrysHomeBrew there’s nothing wrong with those Fontana kits. If you haven’t seen it, check out @joeswine tweaking cheap kits thread for some ideas to improve them. Great way to make some early drinking wine so you can age the more expensive ones without dipping in (as much). I recently bottled the Fontana Pinot with this recipe and really like it:

Made kit to 5 in instructions
In Primary:
- 2 tsp wine tannin
- 1 cup med toast French oak chips
- 8oz black cherries sautéed in Syrah
- chapitalize with 1 cup of 2:1 simple syrup
In Secondary
- 1 cup med toast French oak chips

In the theme of this thread, this is my favorite early drinking recipe to date.


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## ceeaton (Feb 3, 2018)

Doug’s wines said:


> EDIT: Found a good article if you are interested in recommendations and tasting notes. I’ve had several of these and really like the Poggio Antico, Mocali, Altisino and Col d’Orcia
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/dining/reviews/rosso-di-montalcino-wine-review.html


Thank you for posting that article, very good read. Always nice to learn something new. I'll have to keep a lookout for some of their suggestions, though they may be of a newer vintage by seven or eight years!


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## ehammonds (Feb 4, 2018)

Favorites so far: CC Showcase Amarone, now three years old. Red mountain Cab, no longer available. CC walla walla cab/merlot, about three years old. I now have bottled the Eclipse SLM, Lodi Cab and Eclipse Shiraz. All great but they’re two years old and I expect them to get better. About to bottle the EP super Tuscan, which has been in the barrel of five months, and the Eclipse Zin, also barrel aging. Both tasting good in their youth.


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## Doug’s wines (Feb 6, 2018)

Ok. I tried going through the thread to coalate responses so far and here’s what I saw. Feel free to correct or adjust if I missed something:

Whites:
WE Eclipse NZ Sav Blanc x2
Winexpert Selection Luna Bianca x2

Reds:
En Primeur/Winery Series Super Tuscan 
En Primeur Winery Series Amarone Italian style
CC Showcase Walla Walla Cab/Merlot x2
WE Eclipse Sonoma Valley Pinot Noir
WE Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot
Renaissance Impressions Castel Del Papa
WE world vineyard Pinot Noir
CC Showcase Amarone

(x2 indicates it was mentioned as a favorite twice). Also I didn't include ones listed as no longer available, though perhaps I should....


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## jgmann67 (Feb 7, 2018)

ceeaton said:


> . Later this Winter things will turn around monetarily in our household so I expect to start up a "wine fund" like @jgmann67 does for use on my wine making supplies and bottle purchases. When I buy a bottle I'll compare to one of the eleven "taster" bottles (375 ml) that I have and let you know (would probably end up getting posted in the "what are you drinking" thread). I'll be giving one to Jim when I get over to pick up a wine sample to do a test for him, maybe I can twist his arm to give it a taste and report back here.



The fund has been working out exceptionally well, btw. Just do a cost per bottle analysis and add 25% (ish) for contingency. I came down with $5 per bottle (bonus, it's easier to calculate). Also, have a system to keep track of every time you pull a bottle out of the cellar. We have a paper on the bulletin board at the top of the stairs and make a hash mark for each bottle. Then move money to the fund every couple weeks. Last bit of advice - don't cheat. If a bottle comes out, a hash mark goes down.

I stand at the ready to serve. It's a sacrifice, I know. But, it's one I'm willing to make. Bring a bottle and we'll give it a ride. The Brunello is probably my next EM kit and will give me a chance to test the Inkbird, too. Looking forward to it.

See Kirt over at the Lemoyne state store. He can point you to a decent Brunello in the Ch. Selection (I bet they have one). Should be < $20.


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## ceeaton (Feb 7, 2018)

jgmann67 said:


> We have a paper on the bulletin board at the top of the stairs and make a hash mark for each bottle.


I'll remember to bring a pen and make a mark if a sneak a bottle out of your basement!


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## Mismost (Feb 7, 2018)

My big kits are still sitting, tasted a few times but can't call a favorite.

Just racked a Fontana Malbec for the third time. this is the fourth time we've made this kit and we tweak the dickens out of them. Makes a very nice wine every time. A wine nearly everybody likes and seems to pair well with our strong seasoned style of foods. Haven't made two batches the same yet and that is just another thing I like about it!


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## Doug’s wines (Feb 7, 2018)

@Mismost thanks for the reply. I’ve watched your posts on @joeswine “tweaking” thread and have a Fontana Malbec I just received along with a box of redcurrants to give it a shot soon. I enjoy Malbec, so hoping I can do a decent early drinker with those tweaks.


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## Monty Knapp (Mar 9, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> I would love to make a Shiraz but never heard anyone mention them


I'm doing the Wine Expert Eclipse Shiraz (Barossa Valley, Australia) right now. It's clearing right now. Looking good.


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## Brian55 (Mar 9, 2018)

Monty Knapp said:


> I'm doing the Wine Expert Eclipse Shiraz (Barossa Valley, Australia) right now. It's clearing right now. Looking good.


I'd consider this one of WE best kits.


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## Putterrr (Mar 9, 2018)

Well someone asked why other RJS EP/Winery Series kits are not mentioned (usually only super tuscan and amarone)

I have made quite a few RJS premium kits over the last 6-7 years, some before the EP and WS lines were merged and some after. I can honestly say I have never been disappointed. in any of the reds or whites. Some take longer to come around but usually by 2 years the reds are very good. The whites are usually bottled at 6 months and put into rotation at that point. Most of the reds rarely make it to the 3 year mark and the whites are done by 2 years. My storage conditions are not ideal to I don't like to push my luck in seeing how long they last. ** means that they are very good. The "France - Grenache Syrah" was a recent surprise and I have another kit waiting to be made. I find all the whites good but if you like off dry (and I usually don't), the German Riesling Gewürztraminer is very good.

cheers

Pinot Noir - Australia
Merlot - Chile
** Winemaker’s Trio - Red
** France - Grenache Syrah
** Italy - Amarone Style
Rosso Bravissimo - not available
Italy Valpolicella - (Now Valpola)
** Italian Super Tuscan
Italy - Zinfandel - not bottled
Chilean Carmenère - Not Available
Australia - Cabernet Sauvignon - Still Aging
** Rosso Grande Eccellente
Malbec - Chile - Still Aging
California Old Vine Zinfandel - not available
Chardonnay - Chile
South Africa Sauvignon Blanc
Italy - Pinot Grigio
Winemaker’s Trio - White
** German Riesling Gewürztraminer


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## Brian55 (Mar 9, 2018)

Putterrr said:


> Well someone asked why other RJS EP/Winery Series kits are not mentioned (usually only super tuscan and amarone)
> 
> I have made quite a few RJS premium kits over the last 6-7 years, ** means that they are very good.
> 
> ...



Agreed, I'd give two thumbs up to the Grenache Syrah, Italian Amarone, Italian Super Tuscan, Italian Zinfandel, Rosso Grande Eccellente, and the Chilean Malbec.


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## Mismost (Mar 10, 2018)

Doug’s wines said:


> @Mismost thanks for the reply. I’ve watched your posts on @joeswine “tweaking” thread and have a Fontana Malbec I just received along with a box of redcurrants to give it a shot soon. I enjoy Malbec, so hoping I can do a decent early drinker with those tweaks.



I got a day off from coaching and working in my wine room....racking filtering starting a couple more batches. tasted the Fontana Malbec that I added plums, cherries and blackberries to....it was all I could do not chug it down....man, it is turning out nice, In a year or so, it oughta be great. Think I'm gonna name this one MINE!!


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## TallTexan (Mar 10, 2018)

Red: CC Showcase Walla Walla Cab Merlot
White: CC Showcase Yakima Valley Riesling

I've made many WE kits and most have been very good, but I keep coming back to these two CC kits as my favorites.

WE Selection International Italian Brunello and Selection International Argentinian Malbec (both with skins) are my favorite so far of their reds. I have a Selection International Australian Petit Verdot that was pitched Feb 2017, carboy aged, and it tasted very good at bottling in Feb 2018; it holds promise. Their Selection International Italian Pinot Gris was pretty decent for a white, but didn't really shine until about 2 years old. I don't like to age whites for that long, so by the time it tasted that good I hardly had any remaining.

I made a WE Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab Sauv about 3 years ago, and it has still not lived up to the reviews that I read before deciding to spend the extra $$ on the kit. I've held a lot of it back, with high hopes, so maybe time will tell. I also tried the WE Eclipse NZ Sauv Blanc but it wasn't what I expected from a NZ Sauv Blanc; it was quite fruity and didn't have the crisp, citrus-y quality that I enjoy in commercial NZ Sauv Blancs. I will likely not spend the $$ on the Eclipse line again.

The WE Vintners Reserve Angel Blanco has been a very popular and inexpensive early drinking white for my friends/family, but it is not currently available and don't know whether or not it has been discontinued.


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## Monty Knapp (Mar 10, 2018)

Anyone have a favorite Gewurztraminer kit?
Love a good Gewurztraminer, but some Gewurztraminer's have the flavor I like. Others have a different slightly off or different flavor. Hard to describe the difference.


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## Brian55 (Apr 24, 2018)

We bottled our first RJS EPWS Chilean Merlot last night. At just over 14 months old it is already the best kit we've tasted (at the point of bottling). Hopefully it continues to get even better with some time in the bottle. Highly recommended at this point. Will try a sample in a few months to see how it's progressing.


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## tjgaul (Apr 26, 2018)

Monty Knapp said:


> Anyone have a favorite Gewurztraminer kit?
> Love a good Gewurztraminer, but some Gewurztraminer's have the flavor I like. Others have a different slightly off or different flavor. Hard to describe the difference.



I've made the basic RJS Grand Cru kit twice (this was my very first kit), the Cru Int'l once, my second batch of Cru Select Riesling-Traminer just came out of primary and I have a WE Eclipse German Mosel Gewurztraminer that's in bulk, aged about 2 months. We like Gewurztraminer! I think they are all good, but each one has it's own personality and nuances. For our tastes (and the price) the Grand Cru kit is a good basic wine which is ready to drink almost immediately. However, I think the Eclipse kit may prove to be well worth the extra money. It's a much richer wine with a very nice nose to it. We back sweetened a portion of the first couple batches and found that after a couple months we preferred the fully dry version so we're going dry from now on. On the less expensive kits I follow Joeswine's recommendation to add a little lemon zest to the primary to brighten it up. If you choose a kit with a flavor pack (I believe the Cru Int'l had one) that gives you the option of adding only as much F-Pac as you like, but it also locks you into a less than dry finished wine which will gradually sweeten over time.

I don't think you can go wrong, but there is variability in taste among the kits.


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## J Chris J (May 6, 2018)

Cru International Ontario Sauvignon Blanc aged at least 7 months is Mrs Favorite. 
Grand Cru's Vieux Chateau du Roi is my favorite after 2 years aging. Have made several of their Cabernet Sauvignon with great results.
Have some Mosti Mondale 6 gallon juice kits aging. Time will tell.

In 10 years of kit making, only one went skunky. I suspect poor sanitation. I started with RJ Spagnols merlot and Cabernet Sauvignons. All good, some were better.


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## Brian55 (May 6, 2018)

Don't touch the Mosti for at least 2 years. At three years is where they really start to shine.


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## rustbucket (May 7, 2018)

My favorite high end red wine kit is the wine expert eclipse Nebbiolo. Of the less expensive kits, my favorite is the wine expert French Cabernet. The piesporter wine expert selection kit is my favorite white at this time.


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## Zintrigue (May 7, 2018)

So I really loved my fontana shiraz... tweaked down to 5gal, added sauteed black grapes and oak in primary. Had the most lovely wild flower smell. (yeah, the cheap one...)
I'm a mom of 3, so $80 is about the max I'm going to spend on a kit


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## Bplewniak (May 7, 2018)

rustbucket said:


> My favorite high end red wine kit is the wine expert eclipse Nebbiolo. Of the less expensive kits, my favorite is the wine expert French Cabernet. The piesporter wine expert selection kit is my favorite white at this time.


I’m starting this kit next. Do you have any recommendations?


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## Brian55 (May 8, 2018)

Bplewniak said:


> I’m starting this kit next. Do you have any recommendations?


EM and aging at least 1.5 to 2 years. This kit is one of, if not WE's best.


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## colorado_wade (May 8, 2018)

I don't recall seeing any mention of Zinfandel kits from anyone. Has anyone tried the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli old vine Zin kit, or any other high end zin kits, and had good results?


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## Brian55 (May 8, 2018)

colorado_wade said:


> I don't recall seeing any mention of Zinfandel kits from anyone. Has anyone tried the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli old vine Zin kit, or any other high end zin kits, and had good results?


RJS Italian Zin was decent when we bottled it a couple months back. Our MM Sicilian Primativo is really starting to shine at just over two years. We have an MM OVZ waiting for the fermenter.


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## Johnd (May 8, 2018)

colorado_wade said:


> I don't recall seeing any mention of Zinfandel kits from anyone. Has anyone tried the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli old vine Zin kit, or any other high end zin kits, and had good results?



I’ve done that very kit, it’s a bit over 2 years now and starting to come around very nicely.


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## sour_grapes (May 8, 2018)

I've done the Cellar Craft Showcase Lodi Old Vine Zin (phew, thatsalotta capitals!) However, it was one of my very first kits, and I kinda boofed it a bit. (I added too much water due to a confusion about the size of my bucket.) Nonetheless, it turned out reasonably well. I should really do that one again!

I've also done the WE Eclipse Lodi Old Vines Zinfandel (damn caps again!). It seems quite nice so far, but I've only had a couple of bottles yet.


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## Bplewniak (May 9, 2018)

Brian55 said:


> EM and aging at least 1.5 to 2 years. This kit is one of, if not WE's best.


Great. I’ve been EM all my reds lately. I’ll be ordering this kit next week and starting once it arrives. I have the Forza I have to transfer out of EM first. I’ve heard nothing but good things about this kit as well.


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## sour_grapes (May 10, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> I've also done the WE Eclipse Lodi Old Vines Zinfandel (damn caps again!). It seems quite nice so far, but I've only had a couple of bottles yet.



Okay, I just opened one of these. Let's review it in real time.

Nose: fine for a kit
Color: garnet
Bright, lush, smooth. Not jammy, but rather raspberries/cherries, and a little tart. Decent body (I'd say "medium-bodied"). Pleasant, lingering aftertaste.

Not my best kit, but enjoyable. (Not all are!)


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## colorado_wade (May 10, 2018)

Thanks for that feedback sour_grapes. That is one that I have been considering getting. Would you recommend it, or should I look at other Zin kits?


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## sour_grapes (May 10, 2018)

I am not aware of any that are better. I think the WE and the CC are in the same league. I cannot speak to the MMM.


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## Bplewniak (Jun 21, 2018)

Doug’s wines said:


> I’ve seen “my favorite kit” responses scattered around, but thought I would take a shot at consolidating them in one thread for people looking for ideas of “what should I do next”. I’m thinking about the definition of “Best” has many possible flavors so how about-
> 
> The best kit I’ve ever made -
> 
> ...


I took your recommendation of the NZ Sav Blanc and it’s wonderful. This is absolutely a kit I will always have in stock. I matched it up to a commercial one from the same region and the only big difference was this kit has more of a yellow color compared to the commerical one which was crystal clear white. Now that I have an All in one pump and filter, I think this will make the appearance of the finish product better, but the color was very different.


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## wildhair (Jun 21, 2018)

I made this kit last year- everybody who has tired it seems to love it. I'll probably make it every year now.


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## bstnh1 (Jun 22, 2018)

Best kit I ever made was in 2012, a WE Selection International French Cabernet Sauvignon (no longer available). I aged it 4 years and it was deemed fantastic by everyone who tasted it. According to Tim V., the WE Selection California Cabernet is the closest they have to it now. I have that one in the bottle now.


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## Bplewniak (Jun 22, 2018)

bstnh1 said:


> Best kit I ever made was in 2012, a WE Selection International French Cabernet Sauvignon (no longer available). I aged it 4 years and it was deemed fantastic by everyone who tasted it. According to Tim V., the WE Selection California Cabernet is the closest they have to it now. I have that one in the bottle now.


Keep us posted on how the WE selection California cab. 

I currently have 7 different reds from the Wine Expert line in carboys ages 3 months to a year. I just started this hobby a year ago. I’m just about to bottle my first batch which is the WE Eclipse Lodi cap. With that being said, does the selection series stack up to the eclipse? I imagine so if the one you mentioned was the best kit you ever made. 

I’m about to have some carboys free up and looking to see if I should add some of the selection line to the inventory. I’m curious if WE will add an amorone to the eclipse series since they discontinued the international series one.


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## codeman (Jun 22, 2018)

My favorite is the Winexpert Australian Petit Verdot. 
I haven’t been able to find it from anyone including LD Carlson.


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## jgmann67 (Jun 23, 2018)

Bplewniak said:


> Keep us posted on how the WE selection California cab.
> 
> I’m curious if WE will add an amorone to the eclipse series since they discontinued the international series one.



Take a look at the Forza in the Eclipse line. I made it when it was a limited and it really is pretty spectacular.


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## bstnh1 (Jun 23, 2018)

Bplewniak said:


> Keep us posted on how the WE selection California cab.
> 
> I currently have 7 different reds from the Wine Expert line in carboys ages 3 montths to a year. I just started this hobby a year ago. I’m just about to bottle my first batch which is the WE Eclipse Lodi cap. With that being said, does the selection series stack up to the eclipse? I imagine so if the one you mentioned was the best kit you ever made.
> 
> I’m about to have some carboys free up and looking to see if I should add some of the selection line to the inventory. I’m curious if WE will add an amorone to the eclipse series since they discontinued the international series one.



I have never made an Eclipse series kit, so I can't compare the two. But I'm sure someone will chime in with a good comparison for you. I've been very satisfied with the Selection series. I've made better than 30 kits, mostly from the Selection series, and have no complaints. The only one I have some doubts about is a white zin that I bottled just a couple of weeks ago. On bottling day it tasted pretty thin and watery. I didn't expect it to have a lot of body, but it seemed weak even for a white zin.


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## Bplewniak (Jun 23, 2018)

jgmann67 said:


> Take a look at the Forza in the Eclipse line. I made it when it was a limited and it really is pretty spectacular.


I have this in a carboy now as I ordered this one when they added it to the eclipse line earlier this year. I’m excited for this one as I’ve read nothing but good reviews.


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## Happy Winemaker (Jun 23, 2018)

facn1989 said:


> I have heard by many the En Primeur Amarone is good, but just noticed they the Amarone and Amarone Classico. Does anyone know which people usually refer to?


The difference between the En Primeur Amarone and the Amarone Classico Style is that the Amarone comes with WET crushed grape skins and the Amarone Classico comes with DRIED grape skins. In my experience, most people are referring to the Amarone, not the Amarone Classico, when they say 'En Primeur Amarone'.


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## pillswoj (Jun 23, 2018)

Happy Winemaker said:


> The difference between the En Primeur Amarone and the Amarone Classico Style is that the Amarone comes with WET crushed grape skins and the Amarone Classico comes with DRIED grape skins. In my experience, most people are referring to the Amarone, not the Amarone Classico, when they say 'En Primeur Amarone'.


Yes, the Amarone not the Classico. The Amarone comes with both wet skins and raisins.


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## wrongway (Jul 1, 2018)

codeman said:


> My favorite is the Winexpert Australian Petit Verdot.
> I haven’t been able to find it from anyone including LD Carlson.



http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/sho...selection-international-with-grape-skins.html


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## Cornelia (Jul 5, 2018)

Excellent thead! So I splurged today based on posts here and bought the NZ Sav Blanc & the Super Tuscan, pretty excited to try them. My question is how long do you age the NZ Sav Blanc?


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## Bplewniak (Jul 5, 2018)

Cornelia said:


> Excellent thead! So I splurged today based on posts here and bought the NZ Sav Blanc & the Super Tuscan, pretty excited to try them. My question is how long do you age the NZ Sav Blanc?



My Sav Blanc was tasted at 8 months and it was very enjoyable then. It’s close to a year now and it’s only getting better.


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## Boatboy24 (Jul 5, 2018)

Cornelia said:


> My question is how long do you age the NZ Sav Blanc?



It's good at 8 weeks. Very good at 6 months. Excellent at a year.


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## Cornelia (Jul 5, 2018)

Bplewniak said:


> My Sav Blanc was tasted at 8 months and it was very enjoyable then. It’s close to a year now and it’s only getting better.


Thanks, I will give it some time then. Do you bulk age or bottle age?


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## Cornelia (Jul 5, 2018)

Boatboy24 said:


> It's good at 8 weeks. Very good at 6 months. Excellent at a year.


Thanks, I really should start making tasting notes and see how it develops. Haven’t done this yet, I started making wine about a year ago, but now that some of the wines have had a chance to age a bit it would be good idea to compare.
Do you bulk age or bottle age?


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## Boatboy24 (Jul 5, 2018)

Cornelia said:


> Do you bulk age or bottle age?



Both. 

My wines are anywhere from 9 months to 2 years when I bottle. I then try and let them sit for a while after bottling. Kits not as long, but wines from grapes I try not to touch until they are 2+ years old.


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## Putterrr (Jul 7, 2018)

I usually bottle my top line white kits at 6 months and start consuming. they don't all disappear right away. by the time all are gone it might be 18-24 months because others have been bottled during that time. i usually make 4 whites and lately a rose` as well. winter is for reds and summer whites.

cheers


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## Brian55 (Jul 7, 2018)

Putterrr said:


> I usually bottle my top line white kits at 6 months and start consuming. they don't all disappear right away. by the time all are gone it might be 18-24 months because others have been bottled during that time. i usually make 4 whites and lately a rose` as well. winter is for reds and summer whites.
> 
> cheers


I do almost the exact same. Whites are bottled around six months, gone within two years, reds are bottled at 12 months and at least a few bottles of the better reds are kept until four or five years.


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## codeman (Jul 8, 2018)

wrongway said:


> http://www.keystonehomebrew.com/sho...selection-international-with-grape-skins.html



Thanks for the link!
I contacted them and they apologized for that kit showing on their site and told me their last PV kit sold a long time ago. Oh welll, something to lust after. The LE17 Ruby Cab would be a good successor but there’s no skins.


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## wrongway (Jul 13, 2018)

Codeman, I am sorry I should have called them before posting the link!!
Guess I just got excited.


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## wrongway (Jul 13, 2018)

Thanks Everyone for all the information. Now I know where to start. It is quit amazing how many kits are out there. What a awesome hobby this is!


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## heatherd (Jul 13, 2018)

colorado_wade said:


> I don't recall seeing any mention of Zinfandel kits from anyone. Has anyone tried the Mosti Mondiale Meglioli old vine Zin kit, or any other high end zin kits, and had good results?


I have done the Mosti Mondiali Meglioli Amarone with grapes and skins. It's about three years old now, started it 6/20/15. I really like the kit and others who tasted it liked it. Nice body and complexity. 

MM's facebook page shows them having several limited edition meglioli kits for 2018, and one is an old vine zinfandel, if you can find that kit it ought to be a good one.


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## wrongway (Jul 25, 2018)

heatherd I will check that out! I have always liked the zinfandel's!!
Thank You


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