# Just Couldnt Stand It



## Waldo

Went to visit a friend this morning who fell and broke his leg about 3 weeks ago. He had asked me to stop by Wal-Mart and pick him up a few items, grapes being one of them. I grabbed him a bag of red and a bag of black seedless and as I headed towards the coffee I saw.....MUSCADINES...In Wal-Mart !!!!!







The price was ridiculous ( $3.97 for a 21.50z box) but man were they pretty and smelled wonderful. So what did I do? I bought me enough for a good gallon ( 6 boxes)


T ook them home, washed and destemmend them








I smushed them up real good, strained the juice from them














I dissolved one campden tablet and 1 tsp yeast nutrient in my blender, added that to the muscadine juice, sirring it in welland then put the pulp from the muscadines in a strainer bag. I added the juice and pulp bag to my fermenter and then I dissolved 2-1/4 lbs sugar in 3 quarts of hot water &amp; added that to my fermenter, Stirring it well,I put a lid on it and inabout 12 hours ( depending on what time I get up in the morning) I will add 1 tsp Pectic Enzyme to the mustand tomorrow evening if the SG is right ( 1.090 or higher) I will pitch my Montcharet yeast to it.


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## Bill B

Very nice Waldo,The recipe looks good too. 


Bill


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## Waldo

Thanks Bill. I have just got the wine making fever



I can't hardly stand the fact that I have a 5 gallon and a 3 gallon carboy empty right now.


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## Hippie

Way to go Waldo!


BTW, those are Scuppernongs, or you can call them bronze colored muscadines if you want.


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## Waldo

Added the pectic enzyme to my *"Bronze Colored Muscadines"*



must this morning and checked PH with the strips. It is at 4.4 or higher. Barely changed the color on the strips.


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## Hippie

Do you mean 4.4 or lower? I am not familiar with the ph strips. Did ya taste the juice? It should have been very sweet with a burning acid sensation.*Edited by: Hippie *


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## Waldo

You are correct Hippie..I should have said 4.4 or lower. I will get this ph thingy down one of these days. Did not taste the must but i did pitch the yeast to it this evening at an SG of 1.092 and a temp 0f 71 degrees. Just hope to wake up in the morning to some strong fermenting


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## Hippie

I know I have OCD and I am bossy and all that. (disclaimer)


Remember to taste at each and every step. You can learn alot by tasting alone. It don't seem like it at first, but after a while you will understand why.


What strain of yeast did you pitch?


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## Waldo

Wait a minute Hippie until I finsish carving the "Taste Each Time" notch on my learning stick....OK..Got that done !! Thanks Hippie. It makes sense to me now that I think of it. Never considered it before. I used Red StarMontcharet yeast. It seems to do a better job of extracting the narural fruit flavors from the country wines and giving them more body *Edited by: Waldo *


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## peterCooper

Looks wonderful. I think I'm about ready to start on a scratch (as opposed 
to kit) wine. I just started the Murray River Reserve this evening. It was 
almost too easy, this being my fourth after a Chianti, Pinot Grigio, and 
Sangiovese.

Didnt 'spill a thing. Even got the hang of getting the cap off the juice. So 
now where do I go. I have to keep on learning and there is a limit on 
learning from a kit. 

So... muscadine? I'm definitely tempted after seeing the beginings of this 
one...


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## geocorn

It looks good and when you start counting empty carboys, you are definitely an addict.


Hippe is so right, taste the wine at every step. You will be surprised how fast your palette will learn.


It seems like I just shipped that Murray River Reserve and it is in the primary already. Let me know what you think of it.


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## Waldo

Thanks George..I am going to have to revise my record keeping form and add "tasting Notes" to it.


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## rgecaprock

Waldo,


First of all, like the avatar!! The scuppernongs look great. I'll have to check Walmart here but everytime I go in there I get frustrated and some



times disgusted with the people in there (and Im a very tolerant person) then I have to leave...so I'll head to the fruit sectionfirst next time.


We also have a store called Fiesta here with any fruit you could imagine and some you could never imagine, might check there too. Since the moveI am getting back into the wine making frame of mind.


BTW we didn't use the Forearm Forklift, the guys thought it was too wussy!! 


Maybe I could make some Banana Wine.....these are in reach of the balcony here......






Ramona*Edited by: rgecaprock *


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## Hippie

Green as the bananas with envy here!


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## rgecaprock

LOL


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## peterCooper

George,
Ms. Murray arrived on Wednesday. 
She had already started complaining that afternoon that I had left her in 
the lurch and was not paying her enough attention. "What's the point of 
that empty primary?" she would say, in that special tone of voice reserved 
for the intellectually challenged wine maker. Then she would pout and 
give me the silent treatment for a while. I took the punishment as a man 
for as long as could stand but eventually I relented. 

I spent a good deal of time with her Thursday evening. Our relationship 
is already blossoming into something special. She responded so well to 
just a few strokes and the results of my attention semm to be well worth 
it.

Now I have her gurgling quite happily. I intend to leave her alone for a 
while, but I am making arrangements to take her out early next week.

Right now it looks as if all the effort is on my side and she is reaping the 
benefits. I have high hopes, though, that in time she will spare no efforts 
to please me.



*Edited by: peterCooper *


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## masta

Good one Peter!!


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## geocorn

Thank you, Peter. You have put a brand new face on this wonderful hobby.


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## rgecaprock

Spoken like a Professor........


What do you teach? Literature, English?


Ramona


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## peterCooper

Ummm. Computer Science.


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## geocorn




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## Hippie

Man! I love romantic musings! Uh-oh...didn't mean to show my soft side...


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## Waldo

Racked my "Bronze Colored Muscadine" to glass this morning at an SG 0f 1.010 and a must temp of 72 degrees. Was very tart and tasted strongly of the fruit from whence it was born. There was just hint of bitternessI hope will be going away. 


Getting greedy, I put the strainer bag back into the fermenter with the lees, added about a quart of water, 1/2 cup of sugar, 1/2 tsp yeat nutrientand stirred the heck out of it. Hopingto getjust a little more wine.


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## Hippie

I have had good success with second wines. It is also a good way to get a little topping up wine for the original wine.


You continue to impress me with your fast learning!





*Edited by: Hippie *


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## Waldo

Thanks Hippie. I have a great teacher in you Masta, Med and the other members of this forum. The second wine is fermenting strongly.


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## jobe05

OK Waldo........ I couldn't stand it anymore! So I went to Walmart and here is what I found. The smell of these is undiscribeable, just incredibly awesome! However....... I am going to let youdirect me in every step of the process if you will. I have never made a scratch wine from Muscadines and I know that you went through a very good learning curve doing so. So I want you to help me turn these big (about the size of a quarter) red (almost black) Grapes into a masterpeice. 


Direct on Mistro!



I'll await your next command.


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## Hippie

The red ones are not quite ripe, so acid might be a little higher than usual, which is high anyway.


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## Waldo

Way to go Joe..



Ok podner, not sure what you have there weight wise but you will need at least 6 lbs. for a finished Muscadine with good body. If you have that many and if you have done nothing with them yet then your first step will be to de stem ,wash them good. Cull out any bad ones and then put them in freezer bags and freeze them suckers for about 2 weeks. About a good double handful in each gallon size bag with as much air squeezed from the bag as posssible, will make your next step easer. This is a procedure I learned from Hippie and it works great. IF you don't want to wait that long you can go ahead and process them now but I would highly recommend freezing them first. Letme know what you decide and we will go from there. I would also recommend you begin a new thread for your Muscadine. Not that I mind it being here but this is your wine. 


*Edited by: Waldo *


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## jobe05

I squeezed them........






Got a little over a quart of juice out of those three boxes. These were 21.5 oz like the ones that you baught.


I added 1 camden tablet crushed, 1 teaspoon of yeast nutiant to the must. Mixed it with 2 1/4 cups sugar.


Was going to add the Pectic enzyme (1 teaspoon) this morning.


All of this is from you recipe in another thread...... word for word!


I'm thinking of 71B yeast however, what do you think?


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## jobe05

OOooops........


It's "yeast Nutriant"


I mixed the 2 1/4 ponds sugar with 3 quarts of water.


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## jobe05

Will I need more grapes? I ended up with a full quart (plus about 1/4 cup) of juice. I can get more if needed. 


The must, when first put together was a greenish grey color. This morning it's turning a little more to the Pink/Purple stage from the skins. Not as colorfull as I would have imagined it to be since the skins were so dark in color. But it's not done yet.


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## jobe05

OK, had to do it before they were all gone. I went back to Walmart and got 2 more boxes. Mashed them up and added it to the must. Got about another 2 cups of juice and more leftovers for the straining bag.


Just awaiting your opion on the yeast strain to use..


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## Hippie

Lalvin 71B-1122 will work very well.


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## jobe05

Thanks Hippie. As much as I appreciate your knowledge, tact and wine making ablities, I have to say, thats why I here instead of........... well, you know. I'll still lurk and post there but I like to deal with people who have a more down to earth fondness for wine and winemaking without having to be in the cross hairs over wording.


Again, thanks for your help but I still have to wait for my self proclaimed (by me) mentor to aprove this. 


Although I know he will wait for your knod


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## geocorn

Jobe,


I am honored to read what you just wrote and glad that you like the friendliness of this forum. I want wine making to be fun. There is always more than one way to accomplish a wine making task and I want visitors to be free to express their opinion. If that ever changes on my forum, I will shut it down!


Thanks for your contributions!


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## Hippie

It 's all good, jobe.


Part of being a good winemaker is knowing the correct definitions and methods.


I am very proud of Waldo's very fast learning progression.


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## jobe05

George:


Thanks for your kind words and making available this fine board we all use to help each other. I am faily new to wine making, about 7 months now. I have done a lot of reading and a lot of following. I will say that there are only 2 people anywhere that I have ever come across who truely have the experience and ability to help others. Jack Keller and Hippie (no particular order). Jack is a great guy, unfortunately he is way over my head and I sometimes feel, NOT RIGHTFULLY SO, that a guy like Jack doesn't have the time for a wine maker like me. Again, NOT RIGHTFULLY SO! Jack try's to help everyone, he just can't be everywhere at once.


Hippie makes guys like me feel comfortable in what we are doing, or in most cases, not doing, and has the manorisms to explain to the layman in terms we (I) can understand. More importantly to a beginner like me is the availability of help when we are still in our "impatient stage" of wine making. Hippie just always seems to be there. And when he isn't, we have friendly people to step in and lend a hand. I always thought that being on a board with a kazillion members would be better than a board with a few hundred........... Another lesson learned in my progress in making wine. I'm glad to be here and hope I can benefit as well as assist when ever I can.


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## jobe05

Hippie:


Waldo's seems like a great guy! And yes, he has learned a lot. Thats what I like about him, he's not afraid to put himself out there, right or wrong, he wants to do it right. If not he at least wants to have fun


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## geocorn

Trust me. I feel honored to have Hippie, as well as others on my board! Their expertise and patience is invaluable.


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## jobe05

Waldo:





Just checked the SG of the must and I'm right at 1.090. I figure if I ferment to .990, I should have a little over 13% ABV, which might be a little hot, but maybe it will fizzle out around 1.00 to .995......... maybe not.


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## Waldo

OK Jobe..looks like you are on the right track. I would wait at least until in the morning before you stir in the pectic enzyme. If you have already added it just give the must another good stirring and wait until tomorrow to pitch the yeast. You need to allow plenty of time for the campden and enzyme to do its job. The 71B-1122 will be a good yeast. It will help bring out the fruit flavor of the Muscadine. I used the Montcharet on my batch as more of an experiment to see what the end result would be as compared to my first batch which I used the 71B on. 


I am honored that you have given me theconfidence you have and will do mydamndest to help you make a wine you will have to hide from everybody to keep any for yourselfbut I would admonish you to heed the advice and wisdom of Hippie and the others on this forum. It is collectively thatwe succeed in making our wines the best we can.*Edited by: Waldo *


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## jobe05

Thanks Waldo for taking on the responsibility of mentoring, what could concievably be............ an idiot at times







I added the camden tablet, nutrient and pectic enzyme last night. This morning when I added the extra juice (about 2 cups) and skins to the straining bag, I added 1 more camden since I was approaching the 2 gallon mark with the bag in, about 1.5 gallons with the bag out. I used 1 teaspoon of liquid enzyme last night when I put it all together, feeling I didn't need any more than that. Should I give that more time to work? It's been about 8 hours, but waiting till morning won't hurt.


Justso ya know. I have lurked on this board for a while, signed as a member a few months ago, and liked what I saw with the relationship you seem to have with people on this board. You seem a little more advancedthan me, yet, still in the learning process as I am. We seem to be making similar wines, if not the same wines in this case so what better a person to teach/help me, than you.


And it's always nice knowing that there are a lot of good people behind us.



to help fill in the blanks.


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## Waldo

I would wait until in the morning jobe and check your SG again, adjust if necessary and then pitch the yeast.


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## Hippie

Can I step in a sec and just say 1 thang?






You have added way more pectic enzyme than you need, but it won't hurt none, and at least you added plenty! The liquid I have used has a label that tells how much to use per gallon of must. The sulphite (campden) is what turns the must a funny color, but the true color will return.


Ooops! That was more than 1 thang! Sorry!






BTW Jobe, I am still learning also...


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## jobe05

Did I put in to much camden?????



Last night when I squeezed the grapes, I strained into a seperate bottle. The more I added, or the longer I took, the greener the color of the juice seemed to get. I then had the skins in a strainer bag that I put in an empty 2 gal bucket, poured the hot water/sugar salution over it and it turned a nice Dark pink/purpleish color. Then when I added the juice to it, it took on a grey color (yuk). Today it's looking a little better and getting that purple color back.


Oooops



..... I just read the label like you said hippie and you are correct! It says to add 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons! Did kill it?!


Thats what I get for not waiting....... reading......... or waiting for what I had asked for..... Help.......



.......... Thats it........ not another move without direction!


I hope you now understand what you have to work with Waldo............ Good luck!


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## Waldo

Hang in there buddy..all is still ok. It was a bit too much Campden for the volume of wine you have but it will be ok. The additional pectic enzyme will just help it clear better



Do you have any way to post some pictures as we go? That would be great if you do.


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## jobe05

sure, here are two pictures. One is before I stir the must and one is after I stir the must.


Pretty obvious which one is which.


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## jojo

that looks just like what i saw in my gallon of pomegranate. the color change.


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## Hippie

Looks good to me!


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## Waldo

Looking good Jobe.



Have you decided which yeast strain you are going to pitch yet?


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## jobe05

I going to Pitch the 71B-1122 this morning.......


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## Waldo

Ok Jobe...Did you taste your must before? If so, what did it taste like? If not, shame on you and try to remember ( As I just recently learned) to always taste your must before each new step you perform. What was your starting SG and Temp? I want to see soem pics of that must a boiling. After your fermentation begins you want to punch down the strainer bag a couple of times a day. I always use a large plastic spoon and mashthe baggently a few times during this exercise.


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## jobe05

Thanks Waldo..... Your gonna be proud!






Must SG- 1.090, I took this reading while keeping the must still, so I took the reading from the clear/pinkish juice on the top.


THEN..................


I stired the heck out of it...... rustled up all them nasties on the bottom......... Took another SG.... 1.090..... Dog gone.... thought for sure I would get something different.


Must temp, 72 deg F.


I did taste it



.......... Naw.... It wasn't bad at all. Nice sweet very pronounced muscadine flavor which I thought at this point would be a bit bitter but it wasn't. There again, the berries wern't either.


I did stir it up good when I got home a few minutes ago and there was a layer of scum on the top. Kinda looked like I was boilen a chicken in there. Mixed right up though when I stired it. I didn't get a picture before I mixed it all up, but Just after 11 hours I can see the yeast pulling the color out real good. At least I think the yeast is doing it....... Couldn't it?


Look at the scum that has settled on the top already:











-VS- this nice color........


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## peterCooper

Looks purty!


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## Hippie

Way to put him through the paces Waldo! Stay on him!


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## Waldo

Good job Jobe



Looks really good podner. Just turn that strainer bag over each day and punch her back down. I am going to be out of town until tomorrow evening so will be back with ya as soon as I can.


OK Forum...All togrether now, Sing Along:


Ole Jobe told Waldo


Said listen you big bear


I want your help making Muscadine wine


You better shoot me fair and square


Waldo he never even flinched


and said I'll be glad to take the time


To help you podner make yourelf


some mighty fine Muscadine Wine.


So, Let's drink to ole Jobe


Yes lift your glasse high.


As long as there's good wines to make


don't let his memory die.


That he was making wines from scratch


nevr meant a"thang" to him.


And I doubt we'd ever have good wines


If it weren't for men like him.


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## jobe05

To Waldo"


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## Hippie

Good one Waldo!


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## jobe05

Just got home a stired the must. Today was the first time the straining bag was foating, before today, it just sank to the bottom. When I pushed it down, you should have seen the gas bubbles come out!



. I squeezed and smushed and squeezed some more, but I couldn't get that bag to sink to the bottom anymore, But it's mostly under the must now. The color is getting a darker red now and I'm sure it will continue to get deeper in color as it ferments. The SG is 1.070 at 74 deg f. There is a brownish colored foam layer on top of the must before I stire it up, should I remove that by skimming it off, or will it hurt nothing to leave it? Smells wonderfull right now and taste just like it smells........ Yum!


So far so good Waldo


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## jobe05

Hey Waldo.........


At what point should I take the bag out?


Just racked and stabilized my strawberry and again, didn't notice the odor that you had with yours. Mine is a little dry for me, but after it clears (another month or so), I'll sweeten to taste. I also have a spiced pear that is pretty clear now, but it has a rotten fruit smell to it. It has had this smell since day 1 when I was fermenting it. I try to taste it from time to time, but it's so bad that honestly, you can't get it past your nose


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## Waldo

Looking good Jobe. I would leave the straier bag in the must until you get ready to rack to your secondary. The bag will cotinue to float to the top so just turn it each dayand that brownish colored foam layer you want to just stir back in podner. When you do get ready to rack to secondary which will be at an SG of .998 or lower just take the strainer bag out. Dont squeeze it but let it drip drain back into your fermenter. It will not take it long to quit dripping. 


*Edited by: Waldo *


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## jobe05

I set out to find the art of making wine,
The internet is it, this will be fine.
I searched and I searched for the right place to be,
After many months, I found Fine Vine wines you see.
The people were plenty, kind and vast,
I found my knowledge base at last!
I read through the post, and who did I see,
A man named Waldo, who I knew could help me.
<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
Waldo was wise, so funny yet smart
Said Podner you want wine, then head to Walmart.
You must get muscadine, they are on sale
Crush’em and bag’em, put’em in your pail.
Now don’t mess with me son, you get this straight
I want pictures daily, and early, I go to bed at eight.
If you want some fine wine, that will make you proud
Then you listen to me, don’t make me yell loud.

You’ve started your wine, so far so swell,
Good color, good taste and so far, good smell
Twice a day, you punch and squeeze that strainer,


Just listen to me, making wines a no brainer


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## Waldo

ROFLMAO If I cant make a "Wine Maker" out of you, I'll make you a poet


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## geocorn

Is this a wine forum or a poet's forum? Are you gonna make me post a poem, as well? 


There was a man from Nantucket...






Oops,better find a better one.*Edited by: geocorn *


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## Waldo

Comon George...I know you can do it buddy






There was a man from Nantucket


Who made all of his wine in a bucket


Cabarnet, Merlot, Zinfandel and Port


He'd just throwin the grapes and yeast and let her snort


He would never rack it off the lees


The sedimentin his bucket would come up to your knees


From a dipper hanging on his bucket he did serve


Your welcome to taste it if you have the nerve.





OK,,,OK...I'll shut up









*Edited by: Waldo *


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## masta

LMAO....


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## jobe05

I hope someone is saving all the good poetry all over this board. 





Hey George, How about a "Poetry" Heading?


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## jobe05

Colors getting better, so is the flavor.






I wish it was 13% ABV right now and I cold drink it!


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## rgecaprock

What a pleasure to come home from work and see what you guys are up to everyday!!!!


Very Good!!!


RGE*Edited by: rgecaprock *


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## geocorn

Sounds like a job for the forum administrator! Oops, that would be me. Time to hire a forum admin!


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## jobe05

George:


I f you really need an admin, I could have my son email you. He's a computer wiz kid in college with some free time between 3 and 5 am



. I'm sure he would be happy to help you with whatever you need. He loves this stuff.


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## peterCooper

Would you pay him in bottles?


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## jobe05

He's in college and belongs to a phrat of about 60 or so..........


Collectively, this board couldn't come up with enough bottles for a single party for these boys. 


He would be happy to do it for free, he's a good kid.


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## Waldo

jobe05 said:


> Colors getting better, so is the flavor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish it was 13% ABV right now and I cold drink it!




Looking super there Jobe



What is your SG at now?What are the detectable changes in the taste of the must since you pitched the yeast?*Edited by: Waldo *


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## jobe05

SG Last night when I posted last was 1.048. I am surprised that the "foxy" muscadine aroma, that aroma of bitterness (that roten brown stuff on the top), sharpness and sweetness isn't like the actual taste. There is that "foxy" muscidine taste but it's very mild or right now at least equal to the seetness from the grape and the sugar. I would be very happy if it would stay at this taste. But Im sure it'll get better with time. Also as a side note, the strainer bag is about on third the size it originaly was when it went into the bucket, so I know the pectic and the yeast are doing it's thing.


Speaking of the yeast. I chose the 71b 1122 because of what I had read about what it does to the flavor of the fruit (among other things). If this yeast inhances and maintaines fruite flavor, why wouldn't you use this on all fruite wines?


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## PolishWineP

Bert says, "That the yeast decision is one of the challenges we face with each batch of wine we make. Deciding what you want from your yeast for your finished product. Do you want the fruit flavor or are you looking for something else in your finished product? Sometimes you may want a higher or lower alcohol content and changing yeast will give you that finished product."


The challenges are the fun of wine making!


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## Waldo

I believe you are going to have some fine wine there Jobe. From here on out, I would not be too concerned with mashing the strainer bag. Just keep it turned over to prevent it from drying out. Right now I would give the must a good vigirous stirring, sing it a good lullaby and just watch her perk. As for your question on the yeast Jobe I am not knowledegable enough to give you a correct answer. Myself personally, I am trying different strains of yeast on like musts just to see if I am able to detect any differences. I know the 71B is a fast fermenter and does seem to extract more of the natural fruit flavors. I will let you know more about this when my current batch of "Golden Muscadine" is completed in which I used the Montcharet*Edited by: Waldo *


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## geocorn

71B is used by a lot of my muscadine, mustang and scuppernong wine makers. Another good one to try would be the RC-212. It is good for extracting color from the fruit.


Jobe,


I will PM you about the availability of you son.


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## jobe05

Waldo:


SG tonight is 1.032 and dropping



Stired it up good! This has great color, I hope it clears almost as dark red as it is now.


Great idea on trying different yeast with the same type must's, that and some good notes (which I suck at) will allow you to make better wines as you go I guess. So I suppose I should start taking better notes.............


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## masta

Do you have a log to help you keep good notes? 


Check this one out:


Fine Vine Wines' Wine Makers Log.


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## jobe05

Thanks Masta.


Yes, I use a log now, I just have them in no particular order, and unfortunately, no one particular place. I like this one because it allows me to take notes as i go along whereas the other one I have doesn't. I now need to get a 3 ring binder to put them all in.


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## Waldo

I would also recommend a subscription to WineMaker magazine Jobe. I have received only 2 issues thus far but have been impressed with the content of both and have ordered several back issues and always practice what Confucious say "Short Pencil Much Better Than Long Memory"


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## jobe05

Ok Waldo, The muscadine is now at an SG of 1.020..........


Is it time to rack?


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## Waldo

I would let her keep going to dry Jobe. Let her get to .998 or lower and then rack it, stabalizeand let it begin clearing. *Edited by: Waldo *


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## jobe05

Okee - Dokee


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## Waldo

A good picturee when you rack it would be nice too


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## jobe05

Hey waldo, I needed to make room in my gallon jugs for the muscadine so I bottled the Spiced Pear I have been trying to doctor for the past few months. What do ya think of my label for it!


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## MedPretzel

I'm not Waldo, but I think it's great!


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## rgecaprock

Very nice label,


Ramona


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## Waldo

Great Label Jobe. I lile it. Have you done one yet for your Muscadine.


How did the pear turn out?


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## jobe05

The pear turned out HORRIBLE!






This is the one I can't get past my nose. But I needed the Jug so I figured I was through babying, it's been clear for months, so I just bottled it and will ide them for a couple of years to see what they turn into. Thats why at the bottom of the label if you notice, I didn't even check the SG in it for some time because it was horrible!


I have started a muscadine label. Not totally please with the font. So maybe the board could help! Which font do I use?


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## jobe05

Can't see the label very well buy on the left is what I call my self. Now for those of you who a fluent in French, don't comment on the spelling, call Bill Gates






It say's: Al'e Maison Mad Vin.


Which is what I got from "Word" when I did a translate of:


AHa! Home Made Wine


The right side says: 


A sweet soutern Muscadine that goes best with a "Rockng Chair"


----------



## MedPretzel

jobe05 said:


> I didn't even check the SG in it for some time because it was horrible!







Hahaha, I've had a few wines like those.


----------



## jobe05

How about this one. Not done yet, it was just a thought........


----------



## Waldo

I think I like the first one thebest Jobe. But it is your wine podner so whichever one you prefer. Both are good labels


----------



## jobe05

How about this one?


----------



## masta

Excellent....We definitely need to have a label contest at the reunion in the spring!


Lots of talent here on this forum....Cool!






Jobe, I like the last one...the leaves are nice in the second one but the print gets lost in it.


----------



## Waldo

Woooooo Hoooooooo You got it going now Jobe






I think this one is definately the winning label podner. Great job



*Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## MedPretzel

I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jobe05

OK Waldo, Your up!


.996!






What next?


----------



## Waldo

Sorry podner but I lost my DSL due to thundrstorms in our area this evening. Rack her to glass Jobe and stabalize by dissolving one campden tablet and 1/4 tsp. Sorbate in 1/2 cup of the wine. I would go ahead and rack off an additional cup before adding the mixture back to the carboy and set it aside to top back off with. Add the campden and sorbate back to the ine and stir the heck out of it until you get no more foaming. Then add bck the additional cup you drew off, top it up, put an airlock back on it and let her begin to clear. Need more pictures and tasting notes here too.


----------



## jobe05

I racked off to glass, but way to many lees came with it, so I racked a full gallon, plus another quart or so in another 1/2 gallon jug. After just a few minutes you can see the lees building up about an inch in the gallon jug, and 5 inches on the 1/2 gallon. I put them under airlock for the nigh and they are still bubbling slowly. I'll finish with your instruction tomorrow night. By then the SG will have dropped a little more which won't hurt. Right now I'm at 12.77%, that will just put me a little over 13%, which is ok.


Should I add a clearing agent as well? Isinglass?


Also, I have changed my label a little as well, just made one small adjustment. Will post that tomorrow as well.


----------



## Waldo

Good job podner. Myself, personally, I would let the wine clear on its own. I think you will be well pleased with how quickly it will clear. Cant wait to see those pictures.


----------



## MedPretzel

I agree with Waldo. I know it's hard, but in this case, waiting it out is definitely the best option.


----------



## jobe05

OK Waldo. .994, ABV=13.04% Taste..... Heavenly! Has that very distinct muscadine bit but dry enough to be very smooth going down. Started with a gallon and a half, ended with one gallon........... Did I say it goes down smooth






Before:








After:


----------



## masta

Excellent Job....Toped up nicely


----------



## Waldo

Way to go Jobe.great job podner.






Did you get much foaming when you degassed it? *Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## jobe05

surprisingly, not a lot. But I fugured I would stir it really good over the next few days till nothing more comes out. I only have the small paddle on the end of an 24" spoon, so it's hard to get a good stiing action going with it. I don't think the fiz-ex will go through the neck.


will it hurt if I do it over a few day period? Or should I go back out and beat it up for another half hour or so?*Edited by: jobe05 *


----------



## Waldo

I would go ahead andbeat it till it foams no more Jobe.*Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## jobe05

OK........ itinc i boke mi arm o i canttipe no mo


----------



## jobe05

Ya stir and stir and stir......And just when you think your done, just let it sit for a minute and start again and more bubbles come out....






It's going to be a several day process.


----------



## peterCooper

You're not allowed to break your arm until the third day of stirring.
*Edited by: peterCooper *


----------



## jobe05

If I may steal a phrase from Waldo:


Whaaaaaaaaaaaa Whoooooooooooooooo


Boy did I have a brainstorm of an idea.


Take 1 -11 year old, and your wife's vacume bag sealer and what do ya get! 








An extreme DeGassing Machine!


About 5 seconds after this picture was taken, the friggen bottle imploded



Luckily, it gave out right on the bottom rim, very evenly so it only leaked a little, then I slid it to the edge of the table and back into the bucket that I had just cleaned...... Now have back in a bottle..........


The good thing...... It's de-gassed!


The bad thing....... I know have Joe's Orange mead on my ceiling, and muscadine all over the kitchen floor........ Cranberry wine is next......... I wonder what my kitchen will end up tasting like in a year!


----------



## geocorn

Will we call that Chateau de la Kitchen?


----------



## MedPretzel

Holy cow!









That must be quite suction on that thing!!!! Hopefully noone got hurt. 





Ciel du Vin is what I'd call it.



I think it kinda means "Sky of Wine"





I'm not french, but had it in high school Basically all I can remember is "Thank God it's Friday" and "Where's the Bathroom."








But I digress.....



*Edited by: MedPretzel *


----------



## Waldo

Dam Jobe!!



Damn!!



OK, time to quit laughing now and thank God no one got hurt. Thank you Jobe for that valuable lesson. So now we are back in aother glass jug er uh! Carboy. How much of trhe wine did you lose podner? 


Thought I would throw i a picture here too of my "Golden Muscadine". It contiues to clear nicely and from it's current progression looks like it may be ready to bottle around Christmas time. 





*Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## jobe05

Luckily, no one was hurt. It just sucked the whole bottom of the jug in where it meets with the side of the jug. It broke even enough where the bottle just rested angainst the table, sealing in most of the juice, so I only lost about a cup or so. Fortunately, I had a quart more than this gallon jug, so I have plenty to get me back to the full gallon mark. And yes, I strained the juice through a very fine strainer screen, then through a coffee filter to remove any small peices of glass that may have been in the juice, more surprisingly, there were none. 


Your wine looks great Waldo and clearing very nice.


Martina: Well, lets just say it created more suction than I thought it would



. After that little episode, my wife got on Ebay and ordered me a Mityvac. It has a guage............


But I was impressed at all the bubbles it was taking out and very fast. A little less impressed with my cheap gallon jug!


Although Timmy says it will be easier to put a boat in it now if we wanted to


----------



## Vaughn

My father brought up the idea of using suction to de-gas wine. I'm sure all of us have been in the science classes where the teacher demonstrates how to get water to boil by creating a vacuum. 


If I tried it, I would be very carefull to keep the suction light. Some of the bubbles you are getting may be boiling wine! And remember, the boiling point of alcohol is lower than water. So the alcohol will boil off first! You may being making alcohol-free wine. And what good is that?


----------



## geocorn

You are right on the vacuum process. It could heat up the wine. That is the process used by the kit manufactures to pasteurize the wine kits and, thereby, give the product shelf life. The vacuum process does not carmelize the sugar like boiling could do.


----------



## jobe05

Does anybody know how much pressure it takes to get it to a dangerous point for the wine. I know in my experiment it seemed the danger point came when the bottle met it's danger point.....lol


I have read people using the mityvac for instance and it goes to 25 (??) would 25 hurt the wine?


----------



## Dean

25" of mercury (hg) is well within tolerance of standard carboys. The recycled 1 gallon jugs that everyone uses may not be the same strength/thickness of glass that most carboys use. Tim V. when he uses his vacuum keeps his at 25" of hg and goes for lunch while it is under pressure. I've kept many of my carboys at 25" or as close as I could get it for hours at a time. I've not done that to 1 gallon jugs because they are light enough for me to pick them up and shake the heck out of them, which does just as good a job at degassing as the vacuum does. I think that someone did a test on a carboy and found that it was about 450" of hg before they would implode when full. Just remember to have enough liquid in the carboy at least to the shoulders before you start to vacuum so that the liquid inside can resist the pressure. Also check your carboy for weak spots, and small cracks. If you can detect any, don't vacuum it!


Again,I would not do this for 1 gal jugs, but actual carboys that are 2 gal or higher with thick glass!


----------



## Waldo

DeanI read with interest your statement that you just picked up the gallon jugs and shook them to degass. I like that idea but not sure about the proper procedure here. Could you shed more light on this technique please. I know Jobe faced the same dilema as I have in that it is hard to get anything into a lot of these gallon jugs to really give them a good stirring. *Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## jobe05

Dean:


I had a gallon full and a quart jar full. I did shake the quart jar for a few seconds but decided that the inch or soof fresh air on the top of the bottle was getting infused into my wine. Now, since I just sorbated and sulfited, should I not have been concerned with that small an air space? Also, it has bothered me all day as to what thatvacume sealer actualy went down to...... so I'm thinking of getting some more 1 gallon jugs and sacrificing another older one, but this time with a gauge.


----------



## MedPretzel

I have shook my wines as well when they are in the gallon jugs. I tightly close them with the screw-caps and shook. It didn't do the trick as well as I had hoped, but it does work. Maybe I didn't have enough "umpf" behind my shaking. 





A word of warning, though. Be very careful when you unscrew the cap. The best is to hold a towel over the cap -- think of soda when you shake it.




Yes, I speak out of experience.





Also, you might want to move your gallon jugs to a place that's a couple of degrees warmer for about 2 hours or so before you shake, rattle and roll. CO2 comes out of solution (I am not sure if this is the correct term, but I hope it's understandable to all) better/quicker in warmer temps. Don't heat up the wine, but just move it to a slightly warmer area. It could help.


There is also something called the Vacuuvin (I am not sure if I spelled it correctly). It's usually used to close up an open bottle of wine, you pull the extra air out, and the wine should not oxidize. This works well on 1-gallon batches. I've never personally had luck with the 5 or 6 gallon ones (I'm too impatient), but for the 1-gallon ones I think they would be good. 


With the vacuum sealers: I have been told by some that you might suck out the SO2 with those things. I don't test for SO2 in my wines, but it could be true. If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know. I'd be interested to know if it really happens or not. Again, this was just added for a heads up. Maybe someone can comment on it.


Otherwise, time heals all wounds, so to speak. If you wait it out, you can wait out the CO2. It will eventually leave the wine.


These are just my thoughts... We'd be interested what worked for you.





Hope this helps,





Martina


----------



## Dean

Waldo said:


> DeanI read with interest your statement that you just picked up the gallon jugs and shook them to degass. I like that idea but not sure about the proper procedure here. Could you shed more light on this technique please. I know Jobe faced the same dilema as I have in that it is hard to get anything into a lot of these gallon jugs to really give them a good stirring.




Sure thing. Martina covered it for me though. What I dois first rack to a clean carboy because you don't want the sediment getting mixed back up. I take out about 4 cups of wine or 1L (I normally think in metric, not standard). I place my hand over top the hole, and shake up and down and side to side. At this point, think of shaking a bottle of soda to get the fizz out. Essentially, that is what you are doing! Do the same thing for the 4 cups extracted as well. I normally sanitize a 2L plastic pop bottle for that purpose. As Martina said, be careful as it will have the same effect as shaking a pop bottle!!! Don't worry about adding extra air to the wine as the CO2 you are releasing will do a great job of driving out that errant oxygen. If you are really concerned, you can give it a little extra SO2 to make sure that the oxygen doesn't do any damage. I've never had a problem with gassy wines since doing this for my 1 gallon batches! Beware that it can take a few days though.


I do 20 minute sessions until i'm convinced I have the gas out over 2-3 days. I don't shake constantly during that time. I shake, release, let the foam die down, shake, release, let the foam die down, etc. And if I could pick up and shake a 6 gallon carboy, I'd do that too!


----------



## masta

This thread has really become interesting and I would like to add some more info and my thoughts:


Martina is correct in that warming your wine before degassing is helpful, the reason is because a warmer liquid can hold less dissolved gas than if it was cooler.When warming the liquid some of the dissolved CO2 comes out of solution on it's own so when you stir or shake there is actually less gas to force out.


Big thanks to Dean for the excellent posts of details on the amount of vacuum that is used successfully on carboys!



I certainly agree that pulling vacuum on carboys is an efficient way to degas a wine but not without risk if the carboy is weaken at all.As Jobe found out it isn't without risk with other containers than a carboy. I am glad your helper and wine did not suffer at all. Hope he took notes as it would make an excellent science fair project for school!


Afellow colleague at work helped me calculate the effect of vacuum on the boiling point of ethanol. 


Notes: Atmospheric pressure is 14.72 psia 


This can also be stated as:
<UL>
<LI>29 117/127 inches of mercury ¡Ö 29.92 inHg 
<LI>760 millimeters of mercury (mmHg) or torrs (Torr) 
<LI>1013.25 millibars (mbar, also mb) or hectopascals (hPa) </LI>[/list]


Boiling point of Ethanol is 78 C or 172.4 F at atmospheric pressure (14.72 psia)


Vacuum at 635 mmHg or 25 inHg boiling point is 74 C or 165.2 F


Vacuum at 300 mmHg or 12.5 inHg boiling point is 56 C or 132.8 F


Vacuum at 100 mmHg or 3.94 inHg boiling point is 34 C or 93.2 F


So bottom line is that your carboy would implode long before you have to worry about flashing off anyethanol. 


Since temperature and pressure rise and fall proportional to each other on a closed container pulling vacuum does reduce the boiling point but does not increase the temp it actually lowers it.





*Edited by: masta *


----------



## Dean

jobe05 said:


> Dean:
> 
> 
> I had a gallon full and a quart jar full. I did shake the quart jar for a few seconds but decided that the inch or soof fresh air on the top of the bottle was getting infused into my wine. Now, since I just sorbated and sulfited, should I not have been concerned with that small an air space? Also, it has bothered me all day as to what thatvacume sealer actualy went down to...... so I'm thinking of getting some more 1 gallon jugs and sacrificing another older one, but this time with a gauge.




Fresh sulphite will take care of the extra oxygen. I wouldn't worry too much about getting that little bit in your wine. The co2 gas that you release will drive that oxygen right out anyways. I have tested the vac-u-vin and that can pull almost 20" of hg at sea level, and the mityvac can pull 25" of hg at sea level. I find that the closer to 25" that I get, the better the degassing. Attached is a pic of both the vac-u-vin and the mityvac. The vac-u-vin is the little gray stopper on the orange cap, and of course the mightyvac is the guage pump in my hand.I use an adjustable ring to make sure that I get a tight seal on the carboy.


----------



## jobe05

Dean &amp; Masta,


Thanks to both of you for your help and fine expertice and willingness to help us understand............... OK, help us lazey folks find an easy way of getting the co2 out of our wines the easy way............


My wife has ordered me the mityvac (xmas present), but will I need the vacuvin? what is it's purpose? can't I just plug the other hole?


----------



## Dean

jobe05 said:


> Dean &amp; Masta,
> 
> 
> Thanks to both of you for your help and fine expertice and willingness to help us understand............... OK, help us lazey folks find an easy way of getting the co2 out of our wines the easy way............
> 
> 
> My wife has ordered me the mityvac (xmas present), but will I need the vacuvin? what is it's purpose? can't I just plug the other hole?




Yes, you can just plug the other hole. I use both as the vac-u-vin has a longer stroke, hence will take more air out of the carboy faster. I take it down to 20"hg, then use the mityvac for the rest to take it down as low as I can get it. It is a challenge trying to keep the guage at 25! Gas is coming out, killing the vacuum, so I'm pumping away to keep the pressure up! Be warned: This is not like the regular foam you get when de-gassing with a whip. I use my whip as well for larger carboys. This almost looks like the wine is starting to go into a slow boil. Very large bubbles come to the surface



. You will be perfectly fine with just the mityvac!


----------



## Waldo

Thanks all for the very helpful info !!






I think I am going to designa fizz-x especially for gallon size carboys. I think there is definately a market for them. *Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## MedPretzel

[url]http://www.finevinewines.com/Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8 41&amp;PN=1[/url]





Shows my attempt to demonstrate the Vacuvin. Not one of my better phototorials!


----------



## Vaughn

Dean said:


> ...and of course the mightyvac is the guage pump in my hand.




Hey! I just realized I own a Mightyvac and didn't know it! It came with the brake bleeder kit that I got at Pep Boys. I use it to bleed the brakes on my VW. What a deal!








There's no guage on it, though.


----------



## Waldo

I bet you could inline a gauge pretty easy Vaughn and the gauges are cheap *Edited by: Waldo *


----------



## Waldo

Pstttttttttttt Hey Jobe...Back to the Muscadien podner. So is she dropping lees like a frost bitten Maple in a wind storm?


----------



## masta

This is what you need:


----------



## jobe05

Waldo:


It has dropped some lees, not much yet. Seems to be getting clearer, not see through clear yet, but a much cleaner red look to it. How long do you think it would take to completely clear? And would it help if warmer or colder, or would it not matter. I don't mind either way, I just want to start drinking it!


----------



## Waldo

Patience my friend. It took my Muscadine about 5 weeks to clear. It was about 14-15 days after I racked from the fermeter before I did another racking and then another couple of weeks before it was cleared. The wine will benifit greatly from aging if you can do it. I have 8 bottles of mine left I am hell bent on aging for at least a year. Bottle it in 375 ml bottles if you can Jobe and stick at least a couple back and forget them while you curse yourself for not buying enough Muscadines for at leasta 3 gallon batch


----------



## jobe05

Waldo said:


> while you curse yourself for not buying enough Muscadines for at leasta 3 gallon batch




Next year Im going to be better prepared! Already found 3 vinyards that are "pick your own" and I have found a place on line that sells 3 year old plants for$6.95 each. Im putting a chain link fence aroundmy back yard next year and have thought about incorporating a trellis of sorts into that fence for grapes.......... Nothing less thana 6 gallon batch for me next year! Although I have a hunch that the memory of this batch will be long faded before next year


----------



## Waldo

To the contrary Jobe I think you will find that this gallon of wine wll be remembered for many years to come. Never again will you process Muscadines that you will not recall running back to Wal-Mart for more. The excitement of the imploding jug and most surely the memory of the first mouthfeel of your finally finished Muscadine wine will be there for a long time to come.


----------



## Waldo

How is that Muscadine doing Jobe?


----------



## jobe05

Waldo, the Muscadine is doing GREAT!


It's very clear, so I went ahead and racked it last night. Surprisingly, there wern't that many lees or gunk on the bottom, of course it's only a gallon so.........


But it's clearing nicely and tasting very good! I had enough left over to get about 1/2" on the bottom of a wine glass and it was awsome! I wanted another glass but figured I would have to top up with water, sooooooooo............. I didn't.


----------



## Waldo




----------



## jobe05

OK........ Time to fess up Waldo............


I WANT TO DRINK IT!


Something that good ought not just sit in a bottle and do nothing! It should be filtered, sweetened, chilledand taken to a nice candle lit living room couch after dinner, and shared with the one I love the most, with a snuggly blanket and a good movie.......................





Ya know this wine isn't going to make it mast a few weeks aging right? I think I said nothing less than 6 gallons next year, make that 12.......... at least!*Edited by: jobe05 *


----------



## Waldo

LOL.......I now have 2- 375ml bottles of my Muscadine left that I was going to let age a year






The last 3 of the 750 ml went away with Thanksgiving dinner. I have ordered me 12 muscadine plants from Isons Nursery.


----------



## jobe05

Waldo said:


> LOL.......I now have 2- 375ml bottles of my Muscadine left that I was going to let age a year




This isn't from the batch you just made was it? If not, how old is/was it?


Does the place you got your vines from have a web site?


----------



## MedPretzel

Waldo, Jobe.





PLEASE put at least one away for a year! You will appreciate the wine SO MUCH MORE if you do so. It may taste "great" now, but it'll be a knockout in 5-6 months from now. Imagine sitting on your porches in the 80+ degree weather and sipping something you made in THE WINTER!





Take it from me. Hide them things away from your sight (outta sight, outta mind). Make more. Make more of "crazy-out-of-your-mind" wine. Why do you think I make such weird batches? _So that the *good* ones can age!_


----------



## jobe05

Great suggestion and Im hoping to have the willpower......... However, I only made a gallon






I don't think it's going to last long. I have visions of putting it in small, single serving bottles and telling everybody it really bad........


But I don't have a poker face........


----------



## MedPretzel

Okay, here's what you do:





firstly, make another batch -- of anything. 


secondly, go to george's and buy 2 5- or 6-gallon carboys.


thridly start another batch or 2.


fourthly, get your darn mind off of your little 1-gallon batch. It's just gonna get better! Do you want to drink it when it's not in its prime?!? (Trust me, I _know_ you think it's in its prime *NOW*, but it's *not*. Even if you drink 1 bottle every month from now, you ain't gonna taste it when it's *really* good.)


Or.... You can bottle it in beer bottles (which I do:Warsteiner - brown or St. Pauli Girl - green.) Just don't get the ones with a screw top. Get yourself a capper and some caps. Wine is more than fine in beer bottles and caps. Perfect for 2 glasses. No fancy corks, no fancy labels necessary. Get's the job done, and you can test your wine more often without having to open up (ruin) a whole bottle. If it needs more time, you know in 2 glasses, not 5....


And make sure you keep darn good notes. Your notes will get better once you start making more of them. Just keep doing it. Make notes of store bought wines. Not just "I like it." notes, but say, "tastes kind of like bubble-gum" or "tastes like the way dog poop smells" but the acidity is something I like in it.


It will help you make a good wine out of your own ones. 





Just my 2 cents. 





M.


----------



## jobe05

I would love to make more Muscadine, but I have looked everywhere for them and they are apparently gone for the season now.........


I may see if I can just buy a couple of commercial bottles somewhere till mine ages a bit. 


Will #7 corks fit in a beer bottle? Or do you have to but the caps back on? I don't have, nor do I want to buy one of those cappers. Since my wife and I both don't drink beer, bottles are not readily available either.


So I'm just going to have to keep myself busy making more wine...... I have 3 emty 3 gallon carboys, 2 - 5 gallons and a 6.5 gallon just begging for something...........


I have a Cellar Craft Amorone with the skin pack on order and should be in this week...........


----------



## Waldo

If you can find it Jobe get a Posts' Red Muscadine. It is very good. Here is the URL for the Muscadine vines too podner


http://www.isons.com/


And , the Muscadine I just made is still clearing. The one I was refering to was made earlier in the year.


----------



## jobe05

Thanks for the link Waldo. I'm still going to get mine from Ty Ty's because they have 3 year plants that are already 7 to 10 feet long, and could produce the first year. I wouldn't let them produce the first year, but would enjoy the bigger crop the second year.


I can't post a picture tonight but my wine is crystal clear! What should I do........ 


1) Just wait......






2) Drink it.......






3) Bottle it and let it age......


----------



## Waldo

Let it age "Grasshopper", You will be greatly rewarded for your patience


----------



## jobe05

DARN!






I wish Blackberries and muscadines grew year round.............


Next year I'll know better. I have a big freezer downstairs thats practically empty. Next year it will be full! I'm planning all my vacation time around fruit harvest times!


----------



## PolishWineP

Spoken like a true winer! (Not to be confused with a whiner!) This is the kind of talk that makes my heart glad! The first step to healing is to admit you have a problem. Admit nothing! Just go with that thought and no harm will come to you!


----------



## jobe05

Ok Waldo..........


the wine cleared (enough for me). I filtered, stabilized and bottled. I filled mostly small bottles so I could taste test over the next year.


Tonight we were at the store and I bought a bottle of Muscadine wine (blush, like mine)....... I like mine better already!


The commercial wine is sweeter and seems.......... thinner than mine. It has a hot alcohol taste at 12% and mine is 13% and smooth. Mine is also more earthy tasting than the commercial. 


So far..... I am very inpressed with mine.












The wine on the left is an Apple wine, the muscadine is on the right.


----------



## peterCooper

Can anyone tell me the difference.
Apparently on University property we have mustang grapes rather than 
Muscadine. What's the difference?

I've been told I can have them next year, if the chiggers don't get me first.
Do I want them?


----------



## MedPretzel

peterCooper said:


> if the chiggers don't get me first.
> Do I want them?




You mean the students?












Of course you want them!



Sorry, I can't tell you the difference, but I can say, people make Wine out of Mustang Grapes too.


----------



## Harry

Hi There Peter


Yes you want them, they makee a good wine. I have 5 gallons ageing now and have about 40 lbs in my freezer. I pick all i can wash and destem them, put then in thee freezer for later use.So when the weather is cold and rainey i cant do anything outside I defrost them andd make wine and jelly. So if your ever around Alvin Tx and see an old man standing in thee back of a green ford pickup its probably me, just stop and chat .


----------



## peterCooper

There is a difference between students and chiggers. Chiggers don't fail 
their final exams!

It's finals week down here in Huntsville and the students are gonig to b put 
through their paces. Have pity on them.


----------



## Waldo

Jobe....Great job man!! I can nhardly wait until next years Muscadine season rolls around. I am anticipating some good news from my nephews wife. We had our family Christmas party this past Saturday and guess what she brought...Muscadine pie. It was awesome. She said her Grandpa maks lots of Muscadine wine and she got hers for the pie from him and she is going to check and see if he will sell me some. She said he has two big chest freezers full of nothing but muscadines..Woooo Hoooooooooooo Im keeping my fingers crossed.




jobe05 said:


> Ok Waldo..........
> 
> 
> the wine cleared (enough for me). I filtered, stabilized and bottled. I filled mostly small bottles so I could taste test over the next year.
> 
> 
> Tonight we were at the store and I bought a bottle of Muscadine wine (blush, like mine)....... I like mine better already!
> 
> 
> The commercial wine is sweeter and seems.......... thinner than mine. It has a hot alcohol taste at 12% and mine is 13% and smooth. Mine is also more earthy tasting than the commercial.
> 
> 
> So far..... I am very inpressed with mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wine on the left is an Apple wine, the muscadine is on the right.


----------



## jobe05

Waldo, Thanks for the thumbs up on my wie, and mostly, thanks for your help during the process..... You helped me make a scratch wine that I am very very proud of.... Just like you said I would..... Thank You.










Man.... You'd be lucky if you could get your hands on those Muscadines. I can't wait till next spring when I can get some plants and get them in the ground. Then next fall...... Im gonna feel sorry for those U-Pickem Places I have got marked on my map..... Their going to be seeing an awfull lot of me..... I hope they have enough vines.....



...... Im going to wipe them out! You'll have to get that recipe and post it for us! Sounds interresting.


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## Waldo

Thanks Jobe. Will do on the recipe !!


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## jobe05

Wow......


After fermenting this wine, I removed the bag and squeezed it out to get all the juice out. Now I know Im not the only curious cat in this bunch...... I did what any of us would do.... I laid out newspaper on the table and dumped out the bag to inspect it's contents. All the was left was some redish gook (skins???) and a whole lot of seeds. Anyways, My wife was helping me clean up and I finished the wine........


My lovely adorable wife however (unbeknownst to me) saved me all the seeds. This spring when I was planting the garden, she handed me all my dried seeds.... 1 package was unidentifiable to me. Then she told me what they were, the Muscadine seeds......... I laughed my butt off.


While planting all my other stuff I figured what the heck...... I through the seeds in a planter and watered with my other scuppernog cuttings. I looked at the planter tonight AND THEY ARE GROWING!!!!!!! Has anyone experienced this? Will they grow? Will they ever become mature vines after going through the fermenting process? How funny is this.......


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## grapeman

Yes, as you are seeing, they will grow. What they become is anyone's guess. What other grape pollinated them? No-one knows. Therefore you may have the world's greatest new grape, or a complete bust. The wonders of cross-pollination. As far as going through the ferment process, seeds are generally well protected and survive some pretty tough odds to germinate. A good example of this is finding tomato plants growing in sludge from city composte(waste water treatment). Those tomato seeds survived being eaten, digested and processed by the city!


If you have a little extra room, try growing a few of these grapes to maturity and see what they give you. You may have the next greatest grape to come along- if not you can always pull it up if it is a dud.


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## Dean

Jobe that's awesome! I tried it with some seeds from a Cellar Craft kit and nothing came of that. However, it does make sense that the seeds should grow. If those grapes were just left to their own in nature, the would ripen, fall to the ground, and start to ferment and rot on their own, eventually leaving a seed behind. Maybe those seeds require ferementation to help germination.

I know that tomato seeds require a form of fermentation before they germinate. The little sack of goo you see around a tomato seed is actually a germination inhibitor and must be fermented off in order to cause the seed to germinate. Soaking tomato seeds in water over a few days will cause a mild fermentation to occur and take this layer off. Once that layer is off, you have a little amount of time to dry the seeds or they will start to grow.


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## bj4271

Jobe Where did you find 3 yr old muscadine plants for less than $7? I've started my orchard/vinery &amp;, even with drip irrigation, I lost half the muscadines this year.


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## jobe05

bj:


I went back a few post and didn't see where I said they were $7. I did see where I said that TyTy had 3 year old vines that were 7 to 10 "feet" in height already and were suppose to fruit the first year in the ground. I think the price was something like $16??? per vine, not sure without looking it up. However I did find a nice, what would seem to be a 2 year vine at Lowes home improvement for $12. Muscadines are so vigorous however,I don't know if I would be concerned with 1 year old or 3 year old vines. I went to my Aunts house in Georga over the weekend. She planted 2 vines about 5 years ago along her fence in the side yard. The vines have now covered the entire length of the fence, approx 70 feet and a lot of gapes hanging and ready for picking. In the vineyard section, I have a post introducing Mutt &amp; Jeff when I first planted them. I will be updating that post with new pictures of Mutt and Jeff soon, to show how quickly they can cover an area........ Stay Tuned!


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## Runningwolf

Holy Smokes, you guys were a blast even in the olden days.



I was doing a search for imploding jugs (easy there Mike) when I found exactly what I was looking for and then some. Lots of good information and humor here that I thought it was worth bringing to light again!


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## Waldo

Hey, us ole farts are more than just a bunch of purty faces !!!!


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