# Cane tip during racking



## John Prince (Jun 14, 2011)

When racking your wine. Do you put the auto siphon cane tip in the sediment at first and let the sediment go to a bottle, or do you hold the tip above the sediment? Trying to make wine before it's time is my first mistake. I can solve that by drinking other wines. Racking wine without getting sediment is another problem of mine. Any thoughts?


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## lieu (Jun 14, 2011)

Hey jprince,
I am a rookie at all this but I think I know the answer to your question. In 1 of Georges How To Videos he sticks the tip into the sediment and catches the small amount of wine with sediment in it in a bottle. It was only a 1/4 or so of a bottle. I did the same thing when I racked one time (ive only racked a few times) and then I put the wine through a coffee filter then "sampled" the wine.


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## Rocky (Jun 14, 2011)

John, 


From the tip of the auto siphon to where the wine is drawn into it is about 7/8" so it depends on how much sediment is in the bottom of the carboy. You cannot always judge by what you see on the side of the carboy as there is a meniscus of sediment on the bottom that travels up the side of the glass. If you have a whole lot of sediment, like an 1" of more, you may have to suspend the siphon above it and get as much clear as possible. Then, transfer what is left to a second container and let it settle before siphoning the clear out of that container. You can do this with a smaller siphon set.


I have also found that if there is less sediment, I can tilt the carboy and brace it before inserting the siphon. If I disturb any of the sediment, I let it settle before proceeding. The geometry of a carboy and of the siphon are such that it wedges into the the carboy with the tip at the juncture of the base and the side and the body of the tube pressed into the throatof the carboy.


Lastly, I plan on racking at least twice in the process so if I don't get everything the first time, I will with the second racking. Hope this helps.


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## ibglowin (Jun 14, 2011)

I lower the racking cane slowly into the carboy using a clamp on the cane to hold it where I want it and then slide it down.

On a first racking where your trying to get the gross lees if you put the cane into the lees you will for sure get a boatload of gross lees no matter what unless you tilt the carboy before hand.

I always err on the cautious side and pull the cane out before I get to the lees, then add the last liquid to a 750 or 1.5L wine bottle. Cork it, let it settle out over night and then carefully decant that extra half bottle (or more) into the carboy. Top off as needed after degassing, fining etc.

When you are racking off the settled fines after settling out for several weeks then you can put that racking cane all the way down to the bottom of the glass. It looks like you will start sucking up fines but it always gets to air just about 2 seconds before it would. You end up with about 3 oz of wine that I just pitch and top off again.


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## Rocky (Jun 14, 2011)

John, 


When Mike mentions the "clamp" his is referring to George's part numbers 4847 (for a 3/8" auto siphon) or 4849 (for the 1/2" auto siphon). These clamps will also hold the siphons on the side of a fermenting bucket. I have some bench clamps which I use for carpentry projects with rubber coated tips that work well. In either case, they will suspend the siphon above the lees. 


One more thing. You will find that you will get much better at this with experience. The first time I racked, I think I had more wine on the floor than in the carboy. Now I don't spill a drop. Just keep at it.


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## cpfan (Jun 14, 2011)

I don't try to bottle wine when there is a lot of sediment. If there's more than the tip on my auto-siphon then that is probably too much for me to bottle the wine.


Steve


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## Randoneur (Jun 14, 2011)

I don't worry about moving sediment over when racking. I start the flow and gently lower to the bottom as soon as the level drops a bit. I tilt the carboy at the end to get all the wine out. If a little sediment goes over, it will settle out. By the time I bottle there is zero sediment on the bottom of the carboy. I don't bottle until I see a clean carboy bottom a few weeks after racking using a flashlightto check in red wine.


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## John Prince (Jun 14, 2011)

You see what I mean? I watched George's video too. There are different ways to sink a cat. George's video was making white wine, very little sediment. I have a Rojo Grande with AllGrape Pack from Megiloli. There has to be 3 inches of sediment. It could be the same principle or not.
I do know one thing. When I rack it to a carboy this time I will age it there for 3-5 months.


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## Rocky (Jun 14, 2011)

John, 
Is the wine in your primary or in a carboy? Did you put the grapes into the bag or put them loose into the primary? Three inches of sediment is an awful lot in any case. Is the wine above the sediment clear? I would try to rack off as clear a wine as possible and put the remainder in another vessel to settle out. Keep both under airlock and when the second vessel clears as much as it is going to, decant or siphon the clear into the larger vessel.


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## John Prince (Jun 14, 2011)

I think I might get Waldo to come rack it. He lives about 30 miles to the east of me.


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## Rocky (Jun 14, 2011)

That would be a good call and you would get to see a pro in aciton. might cost you a bottle or two.


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## John Prince (Jun 14, 2011)

The wine is in two carboys. One being a 6.5 gal the other is a one gallon. Secondary fermentation. The SG is stuck on 1.00. I'll wait till next week before I rack it. 
Cane in or out. 50/50 chance
Murphy's law states. If there is a 50/50 chance, there's a 90 percent change of getting it wrong.
I'm betting even if I get some sediment in there, by aging it in the carboy, I'll get it all the next time.


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## Rocky (Jun 15, 2011)

I used to have a sayingabove my signature that said, "Experience is a tough teacher because it gives you the test first and the lesson later." Whatever you do, you will learn something and that is the point anyway.


I like your Murphy's Law. The ones we used to quote when I worked were the more classic:


A. Nothing is as easy as it seems.
B. It will take longer than you allow. 
C. Anything that can go wrong, will _and_ at the worst possible time.
D. If something cannot go wrong, it will anyway.
E. Interchangable parts aren't.
F.Nothing is foolproof because fools are very clever.
G. If one of several things can go wrong, the most catastrophic will.
H. Things will generally go from bad to worse.
I. Chance favors the hidden flaw.
J. If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs, you have overlooked something.
K. Parts will break or be destroyed in descending dollar value order.
L. Every problem solved breeds two new problems.
M. Whenever you set out to do something, there will always be something that you should have done first.
N. There is never enough time to do a job but always enough to do it over.
O. When in doubt, mumble.
P. When in trouble, delegate.
R. Anything put in a safe place is gone forever.
S. Your best golf shots always occur when you are playing alone.
T. Your worst golf shots always occur when you are trying to impress.
U. Having the "Right of Way" does not make you less dead.
V. You will get not credit for what goes right.
W. You will get all the credit for what goes wrong.
X. You will always find what you are looking for in the last place you look.
Y. Nothing is impossible for the person who does not have to do it.
Z. Never attribute tomisfortune that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.


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## Wade E (Jun 15, 2011)

Like cpfan I never bottle from a vessel with sediment as your just begging for a problem there. Once Ive racked it to a clean vessel and as long as I didnt disturb the sediment Ill rack then. When racking from a vessel with sediment I keep the sediment tip above the sediment till the very last second as this will keep you from disturbing early one and then youll be racking over lots of sediment.


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## John Prince (Jun 15, 2011)

I think racking is the hardest job. I did it today on two kits. I left too much and stirred too much up.
Here a tip I did on the second racking... I put white electrical tape on the bottom of the cane. I can get a better picture of where the intake of the cane is. 
I also started two more kits tonight!!


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## Rocky (Jun 16, 2011)

John, I am a little slow on the up take. When you were talking about a "rackng cane" I was thinking "auto siphon." You should give the auto siphon a try for racking. I use it and it works great. I think you will find that you disturb the lees less (!).


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## Brent2489 (Jun 17, 2011)

Looks like he has been hooked!!


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## John Prince (Jun 18, 2011)

I have been using the auto siphon. I can't see where the bottom of the tip is, so I put white tape one inch from the bottom. That way I can judge the tip of the cane and the sediment. 
Does anyone else do this?


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## vcasey (Jun 18, 2011)

When racking try to start the flow closer to the top of the liquid level because you are less likely to disturb the sediment. Don't be concerned about getting sediment on the first racking from primary to secondary, it will not ruin your wine - honest! And don't worry about getting the wine off the sediment before you add the clearing agents in the secondary, unless you plan on letting it sit for months it still will not ruin your wine. When you do add the clearing agents let it sit for the full amount of time on the package (even a couple of weeks longer will not hurt). The clearing agents will pack all that sediment down making racking much easier. Then let the wine sit for a least a month, longer if you are bulk aging. Again depending on the wine sediment will drop but it is not necessary to rack the wine again until bottling. The sediment (if there is any) will be a thin layer and you can easily and gently drop the siphon tube to the bottom of the carboy. Always rack to a clean carboy if you see sediment at the bottom of the carboy the wine is currently in. For whites it's easy to see but for reds you may just want to rack your wine. 

Remember every time you rack you have to add wine (please do not add water) to top off. So unless you rack to a smaller container and use the extra for the kit you end up changing the profile of your wine just a bit. Without adding barrel aging to the mix, I rack to the secondary once the wine has finished fermenting in the primary, clearing agents are added to the secondary with out racking to another vessel. Once the wine is clear I rack to another carboy and let it sit until I want to bottle. 

Most importantly, relax. If you are making wine from a kit you actually have to work a bit to mess it up. And no I don't use tape.


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