# Raising PH to above 3.2 prior to MLF



## jazzibear (Oct 22, 2014)

I'm new to winemaking. I've made several batches of wine, but only just recently started getting into measuring PH and TA. Now, I'm making a red wine, and want to do an MLF for the first time. The must just started fermenting a few days ago. I just got a PH meter and found that the PH is 3.1. The malolactic bacteria that I already ordered: http://morewinemaking.com/products/dry-malolactic-bacteria-enoferm-beta-25.html looks like a really good one, but even that requires a PH of at least 3.2. What can I do to raise the PH at this time? Can I do calcium carbonate? If I can, I don't know how much to add. Any information I can find tells me just how much to use to lower acidity. Is potassium bicarbonate an option, or do I have to cold stabilize it afterwards for it to work? Is there any way to make the MLF work with a PH of 3.1? Also, there are some less than ripe grapes in my must, I'm afraid the PH may go lower when I press it, I don't know. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on how to make this MLF work? The fermentation has just started, I'm not ready to do MLF yet, I just want to start making sure it will work in the end.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 23, 2014)

This is tolerant to 3.1.

http://morewinemaking.com/products/dry-malolactic-bacteria-31-25.html


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## heatherd (Oct 23, 2014)

So you have a choice to get another MLF culture or use the one you have already purchased. 

I myself would do the latter, with the assumption that there is some margin of error to the ph test and also some probability that the culture will work a bit beyond it's stated range.

Worst case it doesn't work and then you can decide what to do at that point....

Good luck!
Heather


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## jazzibear (Oct 23, 2014)

I'm thinking about using the minimum amount of calcium carbonate, hoping it raises the PH a little. The minimum amount to raise lower the TA by .1 is 2.5 grams per gallon (not sure about PH). That way I can feel safer just using the malolactic bacteria I already ordered. If there is something about using calcium carbonate during fermentation instead of before, or something about calcium carbonate before MLF causing problems that I'm not finding anywhere online, I will reconsider. Has anyone heard anything bad about using calcium carbonate during fermentation or before MLF?


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## jazzibear (Oct 23, 2014)

Boatboy24 said:


> This is tolerant to 3.1.
> 
> http://morewinemaking.com/products/dry-malolactic-bacteria-31-25.html


If these malolactic bacteria were less expensive, I might just go ahead and get another one. Too bad I already ordered the other one.


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## jazzibear (Oct 23, 2014)

heatherd said:


> So you have a choice to get another MLF culture or use the one you have already purchased.
> 
> I myself would do the latter, with the assumption that there is some margin of error to the ph test and also some probability that the culture will work a bit beyond it's stated range.
> 
> ...


I might do that if I don't find a good way to raise the PH. Maybe a little calcium carbonate wouldn't hurt though. I've never done malolactic fermentation before and I'm trying to avoid messing it up. There has to be a margin of error though, like you said.


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## deRicardo (Oct 23, 2014)

I don't think you mentioned what the TA reading is.

How did you test for pH value?
What variety of grapes?
What was the starting S.G?

I doubt I would try to change the TA if alcohol fermentation has already started. At this point, wait until it is finished.

If fermentation just started, you have some time, so if TA is already low-to-normal, I'd order the MLB for the lower pH. Shut, I'd order the MLB anyway and not risk MLF not happening.


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## jazzibear (Oct 23, 2014)

deRicardo said:


> I don't think you mentioned what the TA reading is.
> 
> How did you test for pH value?
> What variety of grapes?
> ...


I tested the PH with a PH meter. The TA is high, I did test that with the Sodium Hydroxide (.2N) from my old titration kit using the PH meter. Using a full 10cc, the PH didn't get close to 8.2, so I know the TA is more than 1.0%. I didn't go beyond that measurement, so I just know it's more than 1. This is my first red wine (I have done white wines) using a combination of Finger Lakes region (because it's close) Chancellor grapes blended with Chamborcin, Vincent and Noiret juice. Since my PH is 3.1, it's really close to the required number for the malolactic bacteria that I already ordered and paid $32 for. The MLF bacteria I ordered is supposed to have a PH of 3.2 or above. I could get another packet that's good for 3.1 or above, but it's close. If it was yeast, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I regularly buy one yeast, think about it and get another. 

So, in my case, the TA is high. I can deal with that later with cold stabilizing if needed. My main concern right now is malolactic fermentation which I will be trying whenever fermentation completes in the next couple of weeks. This will be my first malolactic fermentation. 

Is there a reason I shouldn't use calcium carbonate during fermentation? I don't think I would want to use the other acid reducing agents that require cold stabilization prior to malolactic fermentation , because I don't want to chill the must. Also, I don't want too much time to go by after fermentation because I can't add any more SO2 prior to completion of MLF. 

So, my big question is (and I have been asking everyone this, and googling it, and searching) do you know if there is any harm in using calcium carbonate during fermentation?

I really appreciate your help and the help of everyone else that has responded, by the way. Thank you.


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## deRicardo (Oct 23, 2014)

Does sound like your TA is high, so an acid reduction should raise your pH.

Of course getting all adjusted properly BEFORE fermentation is the recommended approach. However, I would not try to adjust anything after alcohol fermentation has begun. The reason - sudden changes can result in a stuck fermentation. At this point, just wait until AFTER alcohol fermentation is done, then adjust.


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## jazzibear (Oct 23, 2014)

deRicardo said:


> Does sound like your TA is high, so an acid reduction should raise your pH.
> 
> Of course getting all adjusted properly BEFORE fermentation is the recommended approach. However, I would not try to adjust anything after alcohol fermentation has begun. The reason - sudden changes can result in a stuck fermentation. At this point, just wait until AFTER alcohol fermentation is done, then adjust.


I got the PH meter a couple of days after I started the fermentation. I ordered the malolactic bacteria prior to testing the PH also. I'm new to acid and ph testing. In the future, I plan to test PH prior to fermentation so I can use the calcium carbonate without having to worry about it.


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## WineQuest (Oct 23, 2014)

Couple of thoughts. First, if in doubt don't. Every time you chemically alter your wine you degrade quality. Second, your pH meter probably isn't accurate enough to split hairs over the small amounts you are talking about. Third, when the manufacturer puts a numerical parameter on their product they always allow for some margins to prevent disatisfied customers. If they say it will only work down to 3.1 then it's probably just fine to 2.9 or 3.0. All that being said I would add what you have and see if it works before I used calcium carbonate.


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## jazzibear (Oct 24, 2014)

WineQuest said:


> Couple of thoughts. First, if in doubt don't. Every time you chemically alter your wine you degrade quality. Second, your pH meter probably isn't accurate enough to split hairs over the small amounts you are talking about. Third, when the manufacturer puts a numerical parameter on their product they always allow for some margins to prevent disatisfied customers. If they say it will only work down to 3.1 then it's probably just fine to 2.9 or 3.0. All that being said I would add what you have and see if it works before I used calcium carbonate.


That makes sense. I'll just leave it and see if it works without adjusting the PH.


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## jazzibear (Nov 3, 2014)

Well, after pressing it the PH was at 3.04. I ended up ordering the Lalvin 31 malolactic bacteria that boatboy was suggesting. That one is supposed be good down to PH of 3.1. I'll just try that and hope for the best at this point.


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## heatherd (Nov 11, 2014)

Good luck, should be fine!
Heather


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