# Adjusting Acid/ TA



## RegionRat (Jan 2, 2013)

I finally decided to play with a new toy. I have read and re read about PH and T/A. I understand what they are and how they are different. I tested a portion of the wine
I have bulk aging and here is what I came up with;


5Gal strawberry PH 3.25, T/A 5g/l
3Gal Cab/Sab PH 2.72, T/A 8.6g/l
3Gal Zin PH 2.55, T/A 9.4g/l
3Gal Pomegranate PH 3.02, T/A 7.4g/l
3Gal Concord PH 3.12, T/A 5g/l

I have on hand; Tartaric Acid, Acid Blend, Citris Acid, Calcium Carbonate, and Calcium Chloride.

All the wines have been stabilized, degassed, and sulfited.

What do I need to do?

RR


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## Pumpkinman (Jan 2, 2013)

http://vinoenology.com/calculators/acid-addition/

http://www.anaesthetist.com/mnm/wine/Findex.htm

http://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/FermCalcJS.html


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## mjrisenhoover (Jan 2, 2013)

I like that top link, thanks Pumpkinman!


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## RegionRat (Jan 2, 2013)

Pumpkinman said:


> http://vinoenology.com/calculators/acid-addition/
> 
> http://www.anaesthetist.com/mnm/wine/Findex.htm
> 
> http://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/FermCalcJS.html



Thanks Pumpkinman, I stumbled across the FermCalc site a while ago.

Let me rephrase my question. Take the Strawberry:

5Gal strawberry PH 3.25 T/A 5g/l, If I add 26gr Acid blend that should get me a TA of 6.5g/l correct?

I just want to be absolutely sure before I start putting things in these wines. 

And what about the Zin that has TA of 8.6g/l and PH 2.55? Should I add 22g Calcium Carbonate or try to start a MLF? I know you can only correct so much post fermentation.

RR


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## BobF (Jan 2, 2013)

Don't make the full additions all at once. 

Let taste be your guide as long as pH is good for stability.

With a pH of 3.2, I wouldn't add to the strawberry unless taste is off.


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 3, 2013)

BobF said:


> Don't make the full additions all at once.
> 
> Let taste be your guide as long as pH is good for stability.
> 
> With a pH of 3.2, I wouldn't add to the strawberry unless taste is off.



I agree..

3.25 is fine for the PH on the Strawberry - if taste seems flat - then add a dose (not a full dose) and taste - think about doing bench trials - see what tastes better to you.

IMO - the numbers look fine on the Strawberry - maybe a little low on the TA - but if it tastes fine - then go with it.

Then Zin, Cab, Pomegranete all need to be lowered - PH that low is not good.

I would add Potassium BiCarbonate - but make sure you can Cold Stabilize with this - CS will drop out the KHCO3 that you added to lower the TA and Raise the PH.

I would should shoot for (this is only what I would aim for - do bench trials see what tastes best to you):

Zin - PH = 3.4'ish TA 6.8 g/l'ish
Cab - PH = 3.55'ish TA 6 g/l'ish
Pom - Not real sure on this one.


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## RegionRat (Jan 3, 2013)

winemaker_3352 said:


> I agree..
> 
> 3.25 is fine for the PH on the Strawberry - if taste seems flat - then add a dose (not a full dose) and taste - think about doing bench trials - see what tastes better to you.
> 
> ...



winemaker_3352,

Thanks for your input.

I am a little slow at understanding the chemistry of the wine making. Let me see if I am getting this. So, I am trying to adjust TA more than adjusting PH. The resulting PH is just a function of getting correct g/l of TA? Correct? If so…..

Lets look at the Zin. According to a de-acidification App online it says to lower TA from 6.8 to 9.4 I need to add 39.39 gr Potassium Bicarbonate. Start with say 20g and see what happens? 

The resulting reaction will form carbon dioxide and precipitate potassium bitartrate. You say to cold stabilize at the same time, CS will aid the reaction?

I don’t have Potassium Bicarbonate on hand I do have Calcium Carbonate. I read _Calcium Carbonate /CaCO3/ forms carbon dioxide and precipitates calcium tartrate (CaT). However, this introduces a risk of calcium tartrate instability._ So I should stay away form Calcium Carbonate and just order some Potassium Bicarbonate?

Dam, these pretzels are making me thirsty!!

RR


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## joea132 (Jan 3, 2013)

You're not going to be able to start an MLF at that low pH anyways. Try a little of potassium bicarbonate. It foams up violently though. Put your dose into am empty carboy and rack the wine slowly onto it. You'll understand why when you do it. I've never use the calcium carbonate. It does sacrifice some flavor but it works wonders on TA.


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## RegionRat (Jan 3, 2013)

joea132 said:


> You're not going to be able to start an MLF at that low pH anyways. Try a little of potassium bicarbonate. It foams up violently though. Put your dose into am empty carboy and rack the wine slowly onto it. You'll understand why when you do it. I've never use the calcium carbonate. It does sacrifice some flavor but it works wonders on TA.



Thanks, 
It is all about flavor so I will not be using the calcium carbonate. I just ordered potassium bicarbonate. I will be sure to do as you say and rack into carboy with the dose in the bottom. 

I am sure had I not been told about the foaming it would have been like the first time I degassed a carboy with a power drill.... 

RR


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## winemaker_3352 (Jan 3, 2013)

CS will aid in the drop of the TA crystals and the KHCO3 that was added.

TA to PH ratio - I would make sure the PH is in line - if the PH is not - the wine could spoil.

It is a give and take with PH and TA - you want a good PH w/o a bad TA and vice versa - so add little at a time and get these values withing a target range.


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## joea132 (Jan 3, 2013)

I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure both sacrifice some flavor. It's worth it though if the current taste is lacking.


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## RegionRat (Jan 3, 2013)

BobF said:


> Don't make the full additions all at once.
> 
> Let taste be your guide as long as pH is good for stability.
> 
> With a pH of 3.2, I wouldn't add to the strawberry unless taste is off.



Just learned that the hard way but, not too bad. I over shot TA on a must I started yesterday. But nothing extreme. 

RR


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