# Burnt rubber pee



## mikez104

Any ideas? My fermentation went well. I sulfited and fined with super clear. Was still cloudy after about 3 weeks so I added Bentonite on 1-11. It cleared pretty good but has a slight haze to it. Last night I cracked it open and tasted. It has a burnt rubber smell to it. Any ideas? It is still on the sediment from the Bentonite.


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## djrockinsteve

Until a wine is fully clear it will have a chemical taste to it. That most likely is the bentonite. Your wine goes thru many tastes throughout it's life. Some you may know about while some are not (bottle Shock).

Patience

If you open a bottle of wine and it ahas an off taste place your thumb over the top and shake it real well 30 seconds. Let it rest a few minutes. The mixing of a lil air will help rid the odor. 

Recommend doing this over the sink.


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## Arne

djrockinsteve said:


> Until a wine is fully clear it will have a chemical taste to it. That most likely is the bentonite. Your wine goes thru many tastes throughout it's life. Some you may know about while some are not (bottle Shock).
> 
> Patience
> 
> If you open a bottle of wine and it ahas an off taste place your thumb over the top and shake it real well 30 seconds. Let it rest a few minutes. The mixing of a lil air will help rid the odor.
> 
> Recommend doing this over the sink.


Hey Steve, the last part of your post, Recommend doing this over the sink. Would you tell us how you know that?? LOL, Arne.


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## djrockinsteve

Honestly that was what I was told to do in that situation. I probably would not of thought of that last part on my own and would have experienced the "mini volcano".

Also would like to add is to remove your thumb slowly.


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## mikez104

It has not been bottled though. It is still in the carboy.


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## djrockinsteve

I really believe your wine needs to age Mike.


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## Brian

Are you taking it out of the carboy to smell it? If not you could just be smelling the rubber from the removed bung. I have done that before .. I am not trying to be a smart^%$.


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## mikez104

djrockinsteve said:


> I really believe your wine needs to age Mike.



Dosent everyone say that Skeeter Pee does not need to age? On the skeeterpee.com web sits it says 

"6.There’s no need to age this beverage. It tastes great soon after bottling. Serve chilled." 

This is what has me worried.


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## mikez104

Brian said:


> Are you taking it out of the carboy to smell it? If not you could just be smelling the rubber from the removed bung. I have done that before .. I am not trying to be a smart^%$.




I user a wine thief to get a sample and put it in a glass to taste. In the glass I get the funky smell. Yes it does smell allot like the rubber from the bung. Maybe thats it.


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## midwestwine

I sulfited and fined with super clear. 

How much k-meta did you they will cause a burnt smell?


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## mikez104

midwestwine said:


> I sulfited and fined with super clear.
> 
> How much k-meta did you they will cause a burnt smell?



I only added 1/4 tsp.


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## Minnesotamaker

Stressed yeast can cause odors. Sometimes it smells like rotten egg, other times like perm solution. The high acid can really beat your yeast up. I would take out a small sample, try pouring it back and forth between a couple of glasses to simulate splash racking. Since it's a small sample, you can experiment without fear of ruining the whole batch. See if the smell goes away. If the smell is eliminated or reduced, splash racking may be an option for you.


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## Brian

Minnesotamaker said:


> Stressed yeast can cause odors. Sometimes it smells like rotten egg, other times like perm solution. The high acid can really beat your yeast up. I would take out a small sample, try pouring it back and forth between a couple of glasses to simulate splash racking. Since it's a small sample, you can experiment without fear of ruining the whole batch. See if the smell goes away. If the smell is eliminated or reduced, splash racking may be an option for you.



I agree with Lon I would try this to see if the smell goes away and if it does in your small sample just splash rack you SP and that should help. I have never had this problem when I am taking the wine out of the carboy..


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## mikez104

Minnesotamaker said:


> Stressed yeast can cause odors. Sometimes it smells like rotten egg, other times like perm solution. The high acid can really beat your yeast up. I would take out a small sample, try pouring it back and forth between a couple of glasses to simulate splash racking. Since it's a small sample, you can experiment without fear of ruining the whole batch. See if the smell goes away. If the smell is eliminated or reduced, splash racking may be an option for you.



Thanks. I'll give it a whirl.


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## robie

Usually, burnt rubber smell is a sign of a serious mercaptan issue.
Look up "mercaptan smell" with google.

If it is not too far gone, it can be treated like the H2S rotten eggs problem, with copper and splash racking. There is even a company that sells a mercaptan treatment kit, but you would have to google it, too. I don't know how effective it would be.
I read an article by Tim V. of wineXpert. He recommended dumping it, but I would certainly try to safe it. 

I had the same issue with a premium Pinot Noir kit. I have been working on it for several months, but still don't know if it is going to work out. It gets better with each copper and splash rack treatment, but it still is not where it should have been.

I believe I know what happened to mine. I used a different yeast, which should have been fed more nutrients than I fed it. Fermentation stopped a little early and never started back. 
Can also be cause by not allowing enough oxygen during primary fermentation.

Don't give up too soon. Good luck.


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## robie

Let me follow up.
Fill a tall glass half full of the wine.
Swirl the glass and get a good whiff of the wine and remember it.

Place one or more shiny copper pennies in the glass with the wine.

Swirl it really well for a minute or so.
Now, smell the wine again. It should smell much better. This indicates that a copper treatment will help the wine.
Each time you repeat swirling for a minute, it should smell better.

If you had a rotten egg smell, it indicate H2S, which you can easily treat with copper and splash racking. I bought a clean copper tube, sanitized it, and splash-racked through it. Then I stirred the wine with the tube.

If you had a burnt rubber smell, you have mercaptans, which is sort of an advanced stage of H2S.


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## djrockinsteve

robie said:


> Usually, burnt rubber smell is a sign of a serious mercaptan issue.
> Look up "mercaptan smell" with google.
> 
> If it is not too far gone, it can be treated like the H2S rotten eggs problem, with copper and splash racking. There is even a company that sells a mercaptan treatment kit, but you would have to google it, too. I don't know how effective it would be.
> I read an article by Tim V. of wineXpert. He recommended dumping it, but I would certainly try to safe it.
> 
> I had the same issue with a premium Pinot Noir kit. I have been working on it for several months, but still don't know if it is going to work out. It gets better with each copper and splash rack treatment, but it still is not where it should have been.
> 
> I believe I know what happened to mine. I used a different yeast, which should have been fed more nutrients than I fed it. Fermentation stopped a little early and never started back.
> Can also be cause by not allowing enough oxygen during primary fermentation.
> 
> Don't give up too soon. Good luck.



Thanks Robie, that's good to know. I've been trying to help him but it's hard via computer sometimes. I believe it needs to age and yes probably another splash rack could help. Do a test first with a small glass and see, I mean taste.


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## Medieval

I have a yeast nutrient by Crosby & Baker (fermax) and compared to the first nutrient I bought they are completley different. The first nutrient I used looked more like clear balls and has no odor. However the Crosby & Baker nutrient has a distinct odor and you can even taste this in the must. The first skeeter pee I used the clear pellete and it came out perfect. I have one fermenting right now and when I took a sample it has a totally different taste and I belive it's because of the Crosby Baker nutrients that I used but I am not really sure I have to wait until it's done fermenting and cleared to see if it resembles the first one or if I can still smell the nutrient odor from crosby & baker.

I think im going to go back to the clear pelletes... I don't know if that could be the reason for you odor but mine smells much like my nutrient at this stage.


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## robie

djrockinsteve said:


> Thanks Robie, that's good to know. I've been trying to help him but it's hard via computer sometimes. I believe it needs to age and yes probably another splash rack could help. Do a test first with a small glass and see, I mean taste.



I hope it turns out well for him.
If it's mercaptans, it is going to take several months and several more rackings. You won't get it all with one racking. After a racking, it can seem OK, but let it set another month and you might find it is still there.

After three additional rackings, I faintly can detect it is still there, but much, much less than originally.

I wouldn't even consider bottling for six months.


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## djrockinsteve

I know when it was fermenting he was very busy and lack of stirring could have been a problem. Sure he'll jump in sometime soon and fill us in. Thanks again. We all learn


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## robie

Medieval said:


> I have a yeast nutrient by Crosby & Baker (fermax) and compared to the first nutrient I bought they are completley different. The first nutrient I used looked more like clear balls and has no odor. However the Crosby & Baker nutrient has a distinct odor and you can even taste this in the must. The first skeeter pee I used the clear pellete and it came out perfect. I have one fermenting right now and when I took a sample it has a totally different taste and I belive it's because of the Crosby Baker nutrients that I used but I am not really sure I have to wait until it's done fermenting and cleared to see if it resembles the first one or if I can still smell the nutrient odor from crosby & baker.
> 
> I think im going to go back to the clear pelletes... I don't know if that could be the reason for you odor but mine smells much like my nutrient at this stage.



I start with Go Ferm in my yeast starter, then use Fermaid K for feediing. 

If you feed too much or too late in the primary fermentation cycle, not all the nutrient will be used up by the yeast. Maybe that's why you still detect it, but maybe it wouldn't matter. Yep, I'd change back, too.

Hopefully, with a bulk aging of at least six months, all that taste will precipitate out as sediment.


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## mikez104

Thanks for the info everyone. I just got home a little while ago so sorry for the delay. I will try the penny trick and see what happens. The fermentation went very well and pretty fast. I started a thread about a while back. 
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10759&highlight=mikez104

I dont remember it smelling bad when I took it out of the primary. It had issues clearing then after the bentonite it cleared ok but now it stinks. 

My yeast nutrient also is in little balls. Thats all my local brew place had. Here is what I used.



IMG_1125_1 by mikez104, on Flickr

I'm not going to tie up one of my 3 carboys up for six months over this. If the splash rack and copper dont work, it will be down the drain.


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## djrockinsteve

I use the nutrient up front then sometimes if ferm. slows I will add 1 teaspoon per 6 gallon pail of the superferment to get it very dry. Usually an extra day does this anyway without the superferment.

I still wouldn't dump but I understand.


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## mikez104

Well, I took about 10~12oz out and poured from glass to glass around 4 times aerating it very much and the smell almost vanished. I took 3 old pennyies and did the swirl thing and the smell is almost gone. Awesome. I'll splash rack it and give it the copper treatment and wait a while. Looks like it may be ok. I'm not going for some great vintage. I just wanted to try out the skeeter pee and consume it.

Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like it may be ok.


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## Minnesotamaker

I guess the the best thing that can be said is, if you had to dump a batch of wine, be glad it's Skeeter Pee. Anything else and it would have likely cost more.


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## robie

Glad it is going to work for you. Next time you will know what to do if it should happen again.


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## mikez104

Thanks again.


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## hoffman13954

I have two batches right now with the same issue. One is a red Pinot Noir and the other is a white Pinot Grigio. I believe that my mistake was not racking enough. Both have the rubber smell. What I am guessing is that I have Mercaptans in the advanced stage. I have spent many hours looking for a cure. I have ordered some chemicals to correct it. I think the best information I have is from http:/www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/h2s.htm and www.homebeerwinecheese.com They use copper sulphate (which is a poison), ascorbic acid, and deoderizing carbon to correct it depending on which stage it is in. I tried stirring a copper penny in a small amount of my white and the odor remained the same. My guess is that I will have to treat with the ascorbic acid, then the copper and probably the carbon. The bad news is that the fix is iffy whether it works or not. I ordered everything from Presque Isle. Wish me luck!! If anyone has any do's or don'ts for this problem, all information and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


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## tomm292

I have made skeeter pee for the first time as well, and also have the same problem, the burnt ruubber pee. After a couple days thinking what could have gone wrong i think maybe i figured it out. I added the lemon juice, inverted the sugar, and poured it on to the lemon juice. Maybe the hot sugar mix scalded the lemon juice, and the batched was doomed from there on.
I should have cooled the mix down first, or at least added cold water to it, then added the lemon juice.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, thanks


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## wineforfun

What are your hydrometer readings? Starting and now?

Did you add yeast nutrient to it?


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## Tnuscan

Hi, 
Hate your having these problems. Some lemon juices will contain oil from the peal, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Bisulfite, Sodium Sulfite, are preservatives. Try using fresh lemons and see if there is a difference in your success. I used the smaller green bottle that states 100% on a batch, the larger generic one that's also 100% but there was a difference between the two. I also typed in (ingredients in lemon juice) and was surprised with what I read. So give fresh squeezed a try. Or really feed those yeast good on the start, their in there with a lot of acid.


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## Winenoob66

Hi you can fix this problem with Reduless. I'll put a link at the bottom for you, be careful when using copper to stir your wine. To much copper can hurt you.

https://morewinemaking.com/products/reduless.html


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## tomm292

First i would like to thank everyone for the quick responses, it was not expected but very much appreciated.
The starting sg was 1.07, and finished at 1.
The only thing that was deviated on the recipe was inverting the sugar and not letting it cool before pouring on top of the lemom juice. Other than that i followed the recipe to the T.
The ingredients on the lemon juice are as follows:

water
concentrated lemon juice (contains sulphites )
lemon oil
sodium benzoate

this is exactly as listed on the bottle.

I tried the copper with a small glass of the wine, maybe a little smell was knocked down, but the taste still was not very appealing.

Thanks again for the help.


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## Tnuscan

tomm292 said:


> First i would like to thank everyone for the quick responses, it was not expected but very much appreciated.
> The starting sg was 1.07, and finished at 1.
> The only thing that was deviated on the recipe was inverting the sugar and not letting it cool before pouring on top of the lemom juice. Other than that i followed the recipe to the T.
> The ingredients on the lemon juice are as follows:
> 
> water
> concentrated lemon juice (contains sulphites )
> lemon oil
> sodium benzoate
> 
> this is exactly as listed on the bottle.
> 
> I tried the copper with a small glass of the wine, maybe a little smell was knocked down, but the taste still was not very appealing.
> 
> Thanks again for the help.



tomm292,
Don't give up on it yet, pretty much all of it is concentrated, but it will still ferment to dry. I've used different ones and reached dry with them. If you followed the instructions then you added the nutrients. I only got 1. on your final sg reading. Was that 1.000 or higher? Try pouring it from one pail to another a time or two. Was it degassed good, How and how long. I don't think pouring your heated simple syrup in hurt anything.


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## tomm292

Nutrients were added at the 2nd step,
i already cleared and degassed it. It was degassed under vacuum pressure, and there wasnt anything left in it. It has been racked twice, and just waiting for the last of the fine matter to settle out. Its crystal clear except the bottom 1" at this stage. Maybe i cleared it too early ?
Maybe its a result of the generic lemon juice ?

I dont have a problem starting over, just dont want to make whatever mistake i made again.

thanks


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## JohnT

That "burnt rubber" smell could be a di-mercaptans issue. 

Di-mercaptans are the result of H2S issues. Copper treatments alone will not cure this. You need to first apply a light treatment of ascorbic acid to allow the di-mercaptans to break down, then add a treatment of copper. 

It is easy to detect. take 3 50ml samples of your wine. 

To the first, add nothing, this is your control. 

Add 1ml of .05% copper sulfate to the second and swirl, 

Add 2ml of 1% ascorbic acid solution to the third, swirl and wait a minute or two, and then add 1 ml of .05% copper sulfate solution. Swirl again. 

Now compare them. see if any are markedly improved..

Now


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## Tnuscan

tomm292,

That's some great information, when JohnT posts I usually make notes.

When I used the generic brand I noticed a small off smell not bad, but there. I can live with it, just won't be sharing it, just yet. But I like to experiment a little, while I do it will sit in the corner.

If you want to toss it I understand, I've done the same. When I suggested using fresh squeezed your just eliminating a few possible negatives, that may become a hindrance. 

With this drink, on a hot summer day, I fill a Tall glass with ice, pour the SP to the brim and enjoy.


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## tomm292

Thanks everyone for the info, i will definitely keep it in mind. This was actually my first attempt at wine, thought this recipe would be a slam dunk. I do have a second batch on the go, but with berries. Its still fermenting away, and if it still resembles anything that it is now, it will be very good. I take a little sip here and there to see how its doing.
For the ease and cost of the ingredients, i think i will just start another one. Maybe this time no inverting the sugar , or at least cool completely before starting. Would a little more nutrients or energizer at the beginning help, or just stay to the recipe again?
Would running the failed batch through a still be worth while, or would it just be crap in , crap out ?

thanks again


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## Tnuscan

tomm292 said:


> Thanks everyone for the info, i will definitely keep it in mind. This was actually my first attempt at wine, thought this recipe would be a slam dunk. I do have a second batch on the go, but with berries. Its still fermenting away, and if it still resembles anything that it is now, it will be very good. I take a little sip here and there to see how its doing.
> For the ease and cost of the ingredients, i think i will just start another one. Maybe this time no inverting the sugar , or at least cool completely before starting. Would a little more nutrients or energizer at the beginning help, or just stay to the recipe again?
> Would running the failed batch through a still be worth while, or would it just be crap in , crap out ?
> 
> thanks again



Nutrients pre, and mid fermentation, stirring helps a lot,(oxygen). I try to be careful with nutrients in the ending of ferm. Try smaller batches. 
For a confidence booster make some Dragon Blood. It's a winner!!


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## tomm292

thanks again for the info, dragon blood is whats fermenting right now. I was trying to decide whether to try the skeeter pee again, or go with a second dragon blood. Just wanted to make sure i had enough on hand for the summer.


thank you everyone once again for all your help.


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## tomm292

I used 1/2 teaspoon Kmeta, and cleared with kieselsol


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## Winenoob66

Hi Tomm292 

Try and find lemon juice concentrate without any sodium benzoate in it. It is a preservative.


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## Winenoob66

OK after looking up Realemon juice concentrate I see it also contains sodium benzoate. So disregard my previous post.


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## tomm292

i pulled out an old carboy, and i will let the skeeter pee sit for a while and see what happens,
. The smell has already subsided some, but the taste is very so-so. Maybe in a month it might be better, if not, not a loss, but it would have been nice to know where it went wrong. 
thanks for the input


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