# Bottle aging



## Czaccary (Feb 28, 2022)

Just asking out of common curiosity what’s the longest you’ve aged your wine in bottle before drinking? I understand you would want to bulk age for the most part but will aging your wine in bottles another 6 months add 6 months of more flavor as opposed to 6 more months bulk aging? 

just wondering to have the luxury of having it Bottled already.


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## Rice_Guy (Feb 28, 2022)

Bottles with cork corks are rated to give a wine five mg per year plus oxygen. ,,, Bottle aging is faster than carboy aging. The end result of aging is the loss of freshness, transition to more of the oak flavors, and decrease of tannins. Some of this is negative, some are positives.

By all means if you are anxious to start using the wine bottle it. If you need the carboy bottle it.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 28, 2022)

The longest I've had wine in the bottle is 10 years.

Aging (bulk or bottle) doesn't add flavor. It provides the time necessary for the wine to transform as it goes through normal chemical changes.

When to bottle is a trade-off. It's better if the wine has sufficient time in bulk for the wine to get through the initial chemical changes as a whole. IME, that timeframe is 4 to 12 months, and it depends on the wine. Whites and light fruits generally need less time, as there's less "stuff" that is going through changes. Heavier whites and light reds need more time, and heavy reds need the most. In general, the higher the body level, the more time is beneficial.

Beyond a year? Unless the wine is being barrel aged, I don't know if there is a benefit to bulk aging. Evaporation occurs through the wood, so barrel aging continually change the wine.

Another advantage of bulk aging is the wine is not being consumed, so it's got the chance to age.  This may sound humorous (and it is!), but it's also true.

Wine ages faster in smaller quantities, so there is an advantage to bottling. Also, the wine is safer in the bottle. Once the cork is in, the wine is sealed, and unless the wine was contaminated, it's as safe as it will ever be.


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## VinesnBines (Feb 28, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Also, the wine is safer in the bottle. Once the cork is in, the wine is sealed, and unless the wine was contaminated, it's as safe as it will ever be.


This can be extremely important. Sometimes bulk aging is not an issue but with whites and some fruits you are going risk oxidation or as I discovered (in horror), fruit flies invade. I had a 15.5 gallon keg of Cab Sav and I thought the stopper I was using fit tight but apparently not. The wine tasted fine and the kit had bulk aged for about 10 months so I cleaned up the floating bodies, hit it hard with kmeta and bottled within a day. So far the wine has been fine but I'm trying to drink that lot first, just in case.


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## mikewatkins727 (Feb 28, 2022)

Czaccary said:


> Just asking out of common curiosity what’s the longest you’ve aged your wine in bottle before drinking? I understand you would want to bulk age for the most part but will aging your wine in bottles another 6 months add 6 months of more flavor as opposed to 6 more months bulk aging?
> 
> just wondering to have the luxury of having it Bottled already.


"Lost' a bottle of Elderberry Wine about 7 yo. Still have it, just wondering when to pull the cork.


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## Czaccary (Feb 28, 2022)

mikewatkins727 said:


> "Lost' a bottle of Elderberry Wine about 7 yo. Still have it, just wondering when to pull the cork.



Wow 7 years! I’ve heard with grape wine that it could be possible to over age it and ruin the taste is that something you’re scared of?


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## Czaccary (Feb 28, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> The longest I've had wine in the bottle is 10 years.
> 
> Aging (bulk or bottle) doesn't add flavor. It provides the time necessary for the wine to transform as it goes through normal chemical changes.
> 
> ...



As always thanks for the reply, loved your take on it.


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## mikewatkins727 (Feb 28, 2022)

Czaccary said:


> Wow 7 years! I’ve heard with grape wine that it could be possible to over age it and ruin the taste is that something you’re scared of?




Not with straight Elderberry Wine.


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## winemaker81 (Feb 28, 2022)

Czaccary said:


> Wow 7 years! I’ve heard with grape wine that it could be possible to over age it and ruin the taste is that something you’re scared of?


Elderberry is heavy duty wine -- the one that makes an acceptable substitution for red grape, so I'm not surprised at Mike's result. Wine ages in unpredictable ways.

A while back I made an Island Mist Apple/Riesling, that I chaptalized to ~11% ABV. These kits are intended for ~7%, but I bumped it up to give it a bit more shelf life. Oddly enough, the last 2 bottles were excellent at the 7 year mark. I'm still surprised, as Island Mist is far from a top-of-the-line kit. Five years seems like stretching it, much less 7.

On the other side of the coin, _many_ moons ago I had several batches of NY Finger Lakes whites (French-American hybrids) all start declining at the 1.5 year mark. It wasn't classic oxidation -- I'm still not sure what happened, other than it seemed like they were much older than the calendar said. While it's likely something I did contributed, there's also a question of grape quality, storage conditions at the vineyard, light K-meta dosage, etc. I'll never know for sure, and while I'm not stressing over it, I keep those memories in mind as a lesson.

Fortunately, at that time I had friends who would drink ditchwater if it had enough alcohol in it, and all were happy to accept a case.  The wine did not go to waste! [Although friends got wasted.]


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## ChuckD (Feb 28, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> Fortunately, at that time I had friends who would drink ditchwater if it had enough alcohol in it, and all were happy to accept a case.  The wine did not go to waste! [Although friends got wasted.]


When life gives you lemons…


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## winemaker81 (Feb 28, 2022)

ChuckD said:


> When life gives you lemons…


Make limoncello or Skeeter Pee!


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## bstnh1 (Mar 1, 2022)

I had a WE French Cabernet that was in the bottle for better than 9 years and tasted fabulous at the end of that time.


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## Bmd2k1 (Aug 30, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> The longest I've had wine in the bottle is 10 years.
> 
> Aging (bulk or bottle) doesn't add flavor. It provides the time necessary for the wine to transform as it goes through normal chemical changes.
> 
> ...


So for longer term aging....say 5+ years....when using #9 cork....is natural ok or is synthetic recommended?

Cheers!


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## winemaker81 (Aug 30, 2022)

Bmd2k1 said:


> So for longer term aging....say 5+ years....when using #9 cork....is natural ok or is synthetic recommended?


I don't believe it makes a difference. The wine I had in the bottle the longest used 10 yo corks -- I had a 1,000 count bag and it took many years to use up the bag, given the wine I made at that time. Yes, the cork was 20 years old by the time I opened the last bottle. They were plain-jane 1.5" #9 corks.

Currently I'm using Nomacorc Select 900's, which is what the unlabeled ones are. The vendor says they're good for 5 years. My guess is they're good for at least 7 years, as the vendor will undersell to avoid liability issues, and I've seen LHBS advertise they're good for 10 years. I'm not honestly expecting to have much -- if any -- of a batch at the 7 year point, so I don't worry about it.

I've noticed a LOT of the French wines I'm drinking are using composite corks. Some have a solid disk on both ends, others are completely composite.

Folks spend a lot of money on premium corks -- I question the true value. OTOH, it's not my money, so I'm not complaining.


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## Czaccary (Aug 31, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I don't believe it makes a difference. The wine I had in the bottle the longest used 10 yo corks -- I had a 1,000 count bag and it took many years to use up the bag, given the wine I made at that time. Yes, the cork was 20 years old by the time I opened the last bottle. They were plain-jane 1.5" #9 corks.
> 
> Currently I'm using Nomacorc Select 900's, which is what the unlabeled ones are. The vendor says they're good for 5 years. My guess is they're good for at least 7 years, as the vendor will undersell to avoid liability issues, and I've seen LHBS advertise they're good for 10 years. I'm not honestly expecting to have much -- if any -- of a batch at the 7 year point, so I don't worry about it.
> 
> ...


Great reply! Loved this


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## VinesnBines (Aug 31, 2022)

A well respected winemaker recommended the one plus one or dual disc corks mentioned by Bryan. The ones with a solid disc on each end with a composite center. I’ve used those for a few years. Now I’m going to try the Nomacore.


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## mikewatkins727 (Aug 31, 2022)

I totally quit using the one with a disc on each end when I tried to remove them from a bottle. They came apart, the end furthest inside separated from the composite center even if I screwed the cork screw all the way end.


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## Rocky (Aug 31, 2022)

mikewatkins727 said:


> I totally quit using the one with a disc on each end when I tried to remove them from a bottle. They came apart, the end furthest inside separated from the composite center even if I screwed the cork screw all the way end.


Totally agree. I used the three-piece, probably 2000 or so, and had no problems. Then about three years ago, I bought another 1000 bag from Label Peelers and had a number of issues both in insertion and in uncorking. I called Label Peelers to see if they had changed suppliers and they said they _had not_. I call their supplier, L. D. Carlson and asked if they had changed their source and they said they _had_. The newer corks are definitely lower quality, and I am just now running out of bottles on which I used them. I did return about 700 from the last bag I purchased and received a full credit from Label Peelers. I now use only Nomacorcs.


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## FlamingoEmporium (Aug 31, 2022)

So far my longest is seven months. But I just started making wine 8 months ago.

cant wait to hit the one year mark and try one


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## mikewatkins727 (Aug 31, 2022)

Rocky said:


> Totally agree. I used the three-piece, probably 2000 or so, and had no problems. Then about three years ago, I bought another 1000 bag from Label Peelers and had a number of issues both in insertion and in uncorking. I called Label Peelers to see if they had changed suppliers and they said they _had not_. I call their supplier, L. D. Carlson and asked if they had changed their source and they said they _had_. The newer corks are definitely lower quality, and I am just now running out of bottles on which I used them. I did return about 700 from the last bag I purchased and received a full credit from Label Peelers. I now use only Nomacorcs.


@Rocky: What you reported coincides with my experience; three years, Label Peelers except I had bought 100.


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## GaDawg (Aug 31, 2022)

I always bulk age my wine in 750mm carboys


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## wineview (Aug 31, 2022)

winemaker81 said:


> I don't believe it makes a difference. The wine I had in the bottle the longest used 10 yo corks -- I had a 1,000 count bag and it took many years to use up the bag, given the wine I made at that time. Yes, the cork was 20 years old by the time I opened the last bottle. They were plain-jane 1.5" #9 corks.
> 
> Currently I'm using Nomacorc Select 900's, which is what the unlabeled ones are. The vendor says they're good for 5 years. My guess is they're good for at least 7 years, as the vendor will undersell to avoid liability issues, and I've seen LHBS advertise they're good for 10 years. I'm not honestly expecting to have much -- if any -- of a batch at the 7 year point, so I don't worry about it.
> 
> ...


I’m shocked that a 1.5 #9 lasted that long. Maybe a 1.75….


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## winemaker81 (Aug 31, 2022)

wineview said:


> I’m shocked that a 1.5 #9 lasted that long. Maybe a 1.75….


In hindsight, it is a surprise


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