# Substituting yeast



## Wild Duk (Nov 28, 2011)

I just picked up an EP Aust. Shiraz.

The yeast that came with the kit was EC-1118
Just looking at the sticky in this site, it recommends using RC212....
Anyone ever mess with subbing out yeasts, or should I stick with what came with the kit....I plan on aging this for 1.5 years min before drinkning...

Thx


----------



## Rocky (Nov 28, 2011)

EC-1118 is an great general purpose yeast. It has high alcohol tolerance and can accept a wide temperature variation. RC212 is outstanding for rich red wines. It is slightly lower in alcohol tolerance and temperature variation. With an EP kit, you probably would not have to be concerned about alcohol tolerance. If temperature variation is not an issue in your winemaking area, RC212 would be excellent.


----------



## Wild Duk (Nov 28, 2011)

As far as temp, I'm assuming you mean during the ferment, not storage....
I ferment in a converted chest freezer and can keep the temp constant....


----------



## Rocky (Nov 28, 2011)

Duk, I was referring to the ambient temperature which should be in the high 70's F to get fermentation well started. If you can reach that temp in your set up, all will be great. From what you have said, I would go with the RC212.


----------



## robie (Nov 28, 2011)

The EC-1118 is a general purpose yeast that is sort of a mack truck yeast. It will get the fermentation job done, if any will.

However, there are other yeast strains, though maybe not as heavy a hitter, that will add special characteristics to your wine that EC-1118 might not.

Here is a yeast/wine pairing guide that might help you:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf

Just be mindful that some yeast strains are more susceptible than others to having a stuck fermentation and some need more nutrients than others.

I use alternate yeast all the time, but I am careful to make sure I properly provide nutrients and the proper fermenting temperature. Go on the web site for the particular yeast and yeast packager and make sure you fully understand what that yeast requires.

If you are experienced (this won't be your first kit), read up on the yeast that best goes with your tastes and the wine you are making and consider experimenting. However, if you use an alternative yeast from what comes with the kit, the kit warranty will be null and void, so you will be on your own, if problems arise..


----------



## wjdonahue (Nov 28, 2011)

Kit makers almost always use EC1118 yeast for two reasons. 1. Like was already said it has hiiiigh alcohol tolerane, and is almost impossible to have a stuck fermentation, and 2. It is a very neutral yeast that won't do very much pro or con to the varietal that it is used on. By using it, they are making about a bullet proof as they can for the novice.
That being said, 1118 is probably not the BEST yeast to use in any wine. Yeasts are cultured for their effect in specific juices, and the best yeast to use on a wine depends on the varietal and your personal profile of what you want and like. While 212 will do a better job than the 1118, I would probably like a BDH or X, or Syrah, and possibly AMH. If you want to make the BEST wine, then substitute the EC1118 with yeasts that are specific to the varietal and your preferences. If you want the good, bullet proof wine, and don't want to spend the little extra, then stick with the EC1118, it will still make good wine.
morewinemaking.com has a great selection of yeats (more than the local LHBS) and a great discussion on each yeast. If you want to really get the best of the wine, even consider using multiple yeasts to enhance different characteristcs of the varietals. They also have a great tutorial on their site about multiple yeasts and blending.
Sorry to be so long winded, but this is a topic close to my heart that I lecture on all the time. Unfortunately most beginning (and even some long time) winemakers still think that all that yeast does is produce alcohol.


----------



## joeswine (Nov 29, 2011)

*think outside the box*

 remember a couple of hundred threads ago, at when good wines gone bad I suggested that not all yeast that are provided with these kits are the best to use,or could be better,the last statement proves my point....is the yeast supplied to use the best for your direct needs?????


----------



## mmadmikes1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Remember also the kit have also added nutrients and yeast energizers to the juice. They are really trying to make their kits bullet proof because it is good for business.


----------



## cpfan (Nov 29, 2011)

The manufacturers also distribute wine yeasts known to work well with kits. Not all yeasts may work well with concentrates, or the results of the processes used to make kits.

RC-212 is used with some kits by Vineco and Winexpert, but i'd be concerned about using some of the other yeasts.

Steve


----------



## joeswine (Nov 29, 2011)

*Manufacturing consistency*

I think we were talking about here is consistency. They are manufacturing consistency so that each kit comes up almost identical and if you like the kit today bye-bye kit two months from today the same kit. It will taste the same, that the nature of the business and do business for the wine manufacturers. And to that end, I believe that we all know how to tweak these kits to our satisfaction matter what they send us, even the high-end kits are very consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer some exceptions to the rule, but not by much. And that's why we shared information we talk about what it takes to get there we test, sometimes trial and error. But then, that's winemaking.


----------



## Wild Duk (Dec 7, 2011)

So I picked up a pack of RD-212 at my LHBS and will start my Syrah soon....What is a good temp to start the ferment at, and temp during the ferment....The instructions have such a wide temp range and just want some feedback on what would be best.....

Thx


----------



## cpfan (Dec 8, 2011)

Wild Duk said:


> So I picked up a pack of RD-212 at my LHBS and will start my Syrah soon....What is a good temp to start the ferment at, and temp during the ferment....The instructions have such a wide temp range and just want some feedback on what would be best.....
> 
> Thx


I make all wines at close to 74F (24C).

Steve


----------



## wjdonahue (Dec 8, 2011)

Fermentation temperatures can be anywhere in the optimal range for the yeast. With virtually all of the available yeasts, anywhere in the 60s or low 70s is fine. At higher temperatures more esters and aldehydes are produced, at lower temps more varietal fruit flavor and nose are retained. If you like more fruit forward wines, then somewhere in the 60s is best. Don't forget also that the fermentation itself will raise the temp of the must during fermentation by as much as 10 degrees. If you start the yeast at 74, then the temp could rise to 84 during the fermentation and produce significant amounts of volitals which could affect the flavor and nose of the wine. Lower temps will be slower to go through lag phase and will ferment slower, but will still fement fine.....just take a little longer. If you are impatient, then start the fermentation at the higher temp, then lower it into the 60s once the active phase (bubbles) start. With the increase in fermentation temp caused by the fermentation, the result will still be in the 70s without the danger of allowing temps in the bucket to reach the undesirable high 70s and low 80s.


----------



## cpfan (Dec 8, 2011)

Lower temperatures will encourage the wine to hold onto CO2. You will have to raise the temperature for degassing anyway.

The online EP instructions recommend "20-25°C/70-80°F" until after the stabilizing & clearing steps.

Steve


----------



## robie (Dec 8, 2011)

I would think with that kit being an EP, it might need cold stabilized, like most of the other EP kits. Maybe someone who has made it can tell us.


----------

