# Blackberry juice concentrate from homewinery.com



## croakersoaker

hey guys and gals i want to start another pure juice blackberry. this time im going to use the juice concentrate from homewinery.com. i talked to the guy there on the phone and he said they come in 64 ounce container and that they are 68 brix.i asked him what strength they are and he said they were 3 parts water and 1 part concentrate to make single strength blackberry juice.Something doesnt sound right to me. that would give it a brix of 17 for 2gallons of liquid.I then asked him how much i need to make six gallons of full strenth blackberry wine and he said i would need one half gallon container and i pint. and i said if i add 3 parts water that would ony give me a little over two gallons and he said i wasnt accounting for all of the sugar i needed to add wtf? anyway i ordered 4 64 ounce containers so i will have 2 gallons of concentrate. i have looked all over the web and it seems to me that single strength blackberry would be around 10-13 brix so should i just keep adding water until i get to between 10 and 13 brix and then adjust to 1085ish with sugar if i want to make a pure juice wine?


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## robie

croakersoaker said:


> I then asked him how much i need to make six gallons of full strenth blackberry wine and he said i would need one half gallon container and i pint. and i said if i add 3 parts water that would ony give me a little over two gallons



Is it possible he said one and a half gallons plus one pint? That would be much closer. Just guessing.


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## Julie

croakersoaker, I buy the blackberry concentrate from homewinery all the time. The concentrate comes in 1/2 gallon containers and that one container will make a 5 gallon batch of wine. My blackberry is very good, there are a handful on here who can attest to that. Since there is 4 pints to a half gallon, the guy you talked to is correct, 5 pints will give you 6 gallons of wine. Do you have a 3 gallon carboy, I would buy two 1/2 gallon concentrates and make nine gallons of wine. And stop worrying about what the brix of the concentrate is. All you are doing is trying to outthink how they came up with the concentrate. Add your water and then just figure out how much sugar you need to add to get the brix you want.


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## dralarms

I also buy it all the time and got 2 1/2 gallons of blackberry headed my way right now, Julie is right 1/2 gallon makes a 5 gallon batch and it's some kind of good.


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## croakersoaker

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm trying to make my blackberry wine strong as if I pressed them and used no water. Is that the way your wine is with just a half gallon of concentrate plus water to make five gallons. What about the acid? on a pure blackberry you have to much acid .is that the case with this ?do you cut this with calcium carbonate? I'm not trying to mess up there recipe I'm trying to learn how to make from scratch without a recipe. Let me ask it this way. if you make five gallons of wine with one of these half gallon concentrates will it be as strong as if you made 5 gallons of wine using a hot packed pail from walkers.. Thanks for the replys I love this forum and I learn more every batch I make with the help of you fine people


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## dralarms

Buy the acid from them, its measured out to match the juice. Mine is in no way a thin or light wine. What I do is add the juice, 4 gallons of water to a bucket, then add sugar to get the sg I want. Then if its not 5 gallons, I finish topping it up to 5 gallons. I get a nice bold blackberry that does not need blending with something to knock the tartness down. I will tell you if you make 4 and 1/2 gallons of juice and have a wife like mine that loves to experiment you can loose 2 gallons quick to her for jelly. Mind you the jelly is fantastic, just the right taste.


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## Julie

I do as dralarms and like he said mine comes out very good. Great mouthfeel, lots of flavor.


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## analog_kidd

On the recommendation from dralarms, I also bought a half gallon of this blackberry concentrate. I can't wait to get it started. I think my fermenting bucket will be free by this weekend.

Do you all just add the ingredients that came with the concentrate (acid and pectic enzyme), or do you add anything else? How about oak, or any other additions?


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## dralarms

AK,

I've added nothing else but what came with the juice, I know some have oaked their blackberry with much success. I do not but their pectic enzyme, I buy it in a larger container. I also do not follow their schedule. The "instructions" are supposed to be idiot proof but I follow a normal fermenting procedure. I will tell you that you do not want a "hot" ferment on these. I had to move my operation out of my office, the computers were keeping my stuff to warm.


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## Julie

I add Hungarian oak cubes and love it.


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## Sammyk

I have a half gallon in the fridge waiting for it to cool down some here to start it. I also bought their elderberry.


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## croakersoaker

Thanks guys I bought 4 containers . There prices are really good so ill run the first batch the way you guys suggest and I'll have plenty left to experiment with


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## croakersoaker

Regarding a hot ferment I live in houston Texas even with the ac on I will be between 70 and 80 degrees Fahrenheit not much I can do about that. Will it be ok?


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## Julie

Yes you will be fine and to let you know their shipping costs are very good as well.


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## ffemt128

Thanks to everyone talking about the black berry concentrate, I had to order a container so I could try it myself....


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## dralarms

Sammyk said:


> I have a half gallon in the fridge waiting for it to cool down some here to start it. I also bought their elderberry.



Just finished an elderberry. Never had it before. Its fantastic.


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## Sammyk

dralarms WE have never had it either so we thought it was worth a try because we have heard it is good.


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## Winofarmer

With these concentrates do you ferment in a bucket or in the carboy as the sugest ???


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## cedarswamp

For those that have done Blackberry jam wine and the concentrate, which do you prefer .I've got 21 pounds of jam for my next batch, but this appears to be cheaper, is it better or comparable?


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## Julie

Winofarmer said:


> With these concentrates do you ferment in a bucket or in the carboy as the sugest ???



in a bucket, you should always start your ferments in a bucket, starting in a carboy does not give your must the oxygen they need and ferments can possibly become stuck.



cedarswamp said:


> For those that have done Blackberry jam wine and the concentrate, which do you prefer .I've got 21 pounds of jam for my next batch, but this appears to be cheaper, is it better or comparable?



I believe it is better.


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## ffemt128

Wow, I ordered my concentrates yesterday and the UPS guy just dropped them off. Quick service


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## ffemt128

Both concentrates are started. I added around 9 lbs of sugar and my sg reading was right around 1.082. There was foam from stirring so I'll take better readings later befor pitching the yeast.


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## dralarms

That sounds about right. Pretty close to what I get. But I have quit measuring sugar and go strictly by SG now.


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## Julie

sg sounds about right Doug, did you buy the acid packet with it?


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## ffemt128

Julie said:


> sg sounds about right Doug, did you buy the acid packet with it?



I did Julie based on your recommendation. Printed out their directions and will somewhat follow.


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## ffemt128

I'll sprinkle yeast tomorrow morning before I leave for work.


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## geek

sounds good....


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## geek

BTW - what is the difference between using this concentrate and buying frozen blackberry fruit that comes in a package at Walmart or Costco?


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## dralarms

No fruit to mash. Its all juice


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## Julie

I would say the price.


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## dralarms

Well, yes. That too.


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## geek

but the end result would be the same........right?


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## Julie

Yes, I believe it would be


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## comeauch

If only they could ship to Canada :'( I asked and they said no.
We need juice too! Beaver wine gets boring after a while... Any similar alternatives?


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## dralarms

comeauch said:


> If only they could ship to Canada :'( I asked and they said no.
> We need juice too! Beaver wine gets boring after a while... Any similar alternatives?




Get a US address, have them ship to you there and then take them across the border yourself, and hope that it's not illegal.


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## Julie

Use blackberry jam


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## croakersoaker

Anybody know how long it takes them to ship to Texas?


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## dralarms

Not long, I ordered once on Thursday and had it on Monday.


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## ffemt128

Checked SG's again, 1.082 for black berry and 1.080 for blueberry. Pitched the yeast this am before I left for work. I'm guessing I'll have fermentation started when I get home.


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## FTC Wines

We have been away for a few day boat trip, but had to reply. We love the Wine shop in Dundee Mi. Been buying from them for 3 years. Great service & GREAT pricing! Made two different batches of Blackberry, 4 of Cab, Blueberry, Elderberry. Last 2 still in carboys. We topped off our last batch of Blackberry with Blackberry Brandy, a full 750ml bottle, did that make a difference. It's only 9 mo. Old but it is excellent, shared it with 3 sets of friends & everyone raved about it!! Their Cab is also a good early drinker. Roy


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## croakersoaker

Wow mine came today do these have to be refrigerated and no directions do I use there directions from
Online?


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## dralarms

Yes, refrigerate up to 6 months, freeze up to 3 years.


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## FTC Wines

Use their on line directions, they seem a little "different" but they work! Roy


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## croakersoaker

I just read them they don't have you add k-meta ever all the way up to bottling. Kinda weird directions for sure


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## dralarms

When using a "juice" to start the wine, I never use k-meta, until finish.


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## analog_kidd

I just mixed up my Blackberry concentrate from Homewinery.com. 

The online instructions say to add the acid after fermenting. All the recipes I usually have seen add this at the beginning. Does it really matter?

The online instructions also say fermentation takes 4 to 8 weeks. What is everyone else's experience with it?


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## dralarms

Ak, I ferment to dry, rack off and add the acid. My brother insists on follow inn their directions to the letter. We can find no real difference. The instructions are written to be idiot proof.


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## joeswine

*Question?*

How much did you make ,3 gal?4gal?or 5gal batch? And what was the specific gravity once you added the water? I started a batch of pineapple and not happy with the beginning start added simple syrup to boost the abv, before fermentation, this is an experiment for me would like to stay in touch and see what your outcome is.


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## Julie

Joe, these are 5 gallon batches and sg should be around 1.080 - 1.090


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## ffemt128

Mine are fermenting away. Didn't add acid up fromt will add later as directed.


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## rob

Great, now I have to order one or two!


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## Rivenin

has anyone had success with their cab or merlot (normal grape wine) type kits? i think i may order 1-2 next month! at least the raspberry and blackberry


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## dralarms

I have used their Cal. Red and White juices. While I messed the whole thing up (tried to do a blush by mixing the 2) and it took a long time to age, it has become a wonderful bold red. Matter of fact I just ordered another 10 jugs from them.


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## croakersoaker

Started two five gallons of blackberry tonight. The directions made no mention of yeast nutrient .should I use them. The yeast that came with it is 71b-1122


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## Rivenin

Personally I would... its like coffee before work... sure, you'll get the work done... but with coffee... everything is just better


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## jamesngalveston

blackberrys have little if any nutrients for the yeast..
i would add nutrient and energizer.
energizer 1/2 tsp per gallon
yeast nutrient 1 tsp per gallon
and I would throw a sliced banana, peels and all in it as well.
add 1/2 of nutrient before you add your yeast, then about 4 days later i would add the other 1/2.


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## ffemt128

I finally had time to transfer the blueberry and blackberry from primary to carboy. Smells great....


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## kkbait

Getting ready to start a 5 gallon batch of strawberry from Homewinery concentrate, should I all yeast nutrient and energizer??


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## jamesngalveston

i have never made a concentrate, but if its not in it all ready, I would.
what else does the yeast have to eat besides sugar..it needs more.


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## dralarms

I add nothing but the yeast and then the acid after it's done.


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## jamesngalveston

A Few Words About Nutrients

One of the nutrients naturally lacking in most wines is nitrogen. Having sufficient nitrogen in the fermentation allows wine yeast to reproduce more readily. The higher the rate of reproduction, the higher the wine’s rate of fermentation. Nitrogen also helps the yeast to produce higher levels of natural enzymes, which means your wine will clear and age quicker. Having plenty of nitrogen will also increase the yeast’s tolerance to alcohol.

The most common source of nitrogen is Yeast Nutrient it comes either in powder or tablet form. Yeast Nutrient supplies nitrogen to the yeast in the singular form of a phosphate. Yeast Nutrient is sufficient for make wines from grapes and other fruits that are similar to grapes such as currants and berries.

In certain situations Yeast Energizer may be more beneficial than Yeast Nutrient. Just like Yeast Nutrient, the Energizer supplies the wine yeast with much needed nitrogen, but from a wider range of nutrients than just phosphate. Yeast Energizer contains over a dozen yeast extractive proteins, along with B1 Vitamin, and di-ammonium phosphate. All are valuable sources of nitrogen.

Yeast Energizer should be used when fermenting certain types of wines such as meads, vegetables, herbs, etc. The more the produce is unlike grapes, the more likely Energizer will be of benefit. Unlike grapes, these type of musts are typically deficient in the set of nutrients wine yeast are used to receiving. Yeast Energizer compensates for these deficiencies.


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## indianblue

One more question.regarding the blackberry wine.kits usually take four weeks.from doing fruits from scratch.how many weeks would u take it over before bottling it ? Thank you for all your help


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## jamesngalveston

once it is finished fermenting, you can let it clear on its own with time, then bottle, are you can add a clearing agent after it is done fermenting.
I like to use egg whites in my blackberry to clear it.


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## dralarms

I've actually been slowing down my bottling process, I'm finding that even if your wine looks clear it might not be. I have an elder berry I was going to bottle, decided to put super clear in it and discovered it was nowhere near clear. IT is now but it wasn't.


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## Julie

jamesngalveston said:


> ...........In certain situations Yeast Energizer may be more beneficial than Yeast Nutrient. Just like Yeast Nutrient, the Energizer supplies the wine yeast with much needed nitrogen, but from a wider range of nutrients than just phosphate. Yeast Energizer contains over a dozen yeast extractive proteins, along with B1 Vitamin, and di-ammonium phosphate. All are valuable sources of nitrogen..................



I would not recommend using energizer instead of nutrient in any situation. James, you give a lot of information that is good but I would caution you on giving advice. I know you are probably getting the majority of your information from the internet. You are a very new winemaker yourself, this is the reason why I would caution you on giving advice that you are just finding online and not experiencing yourself. 

So let me say this again, yeast nutrient and yeast energizer are two different things. Nutrient is a vitamin to your yeast and energizer just "energizes" your yeast like an energy drink.


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## jamesngalveston

I agree with you 100 percent julie, that is why I posted the above, to show the benefits each have..I was not advising anything.
Each have a benefit...but we have to know what that benefit is and when to use it...
I am a new wine maker, but even I have found that trial and error is perhaps a thing of beauty. But I use the internet along with this forum for my information.
Both have been right, both have been wrong.


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## Sammyk

Elderberry and Black Current are both at 1.020 this morning. Rather than snap down the lid, I think we will rack to carboys tomorrow as they both seem to be dropping .10 each day. We did add bentonite to both on the 3rd day. Should they both be stirred up before we rack to secondaries? 

Have not added the acid blend and forgot to order it but have it on hand. Looks like it is about 5 teaspoons for 5 gallons, is that correct? Used Lavlin 71B on both.
Next question since we rack to 1 gallon carboys was thinking it would be OK to add 1 teaspoon to each gallon when we go to secondaries or would it be better to add at the 3rd racking?


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## dralarms

Do you have a bucket you can rack to and then to the one gallons? I don't stir mine I figure you need to let dead yeast lay.


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## Sammyk

We can rack to a bucket but I am wondering why? If the gravity is 1.010 will it finish to dry if you leave the yeast behind by not stirring?


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## dralarms

I think it should. If the yeast is laying on the bottom its too drunk to work and needs to be fired.


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## Julie

When I use to rack to carboy at 1.010 I would always give it a stir them rack, but now I let my must ferment to dry In the primary. I know the theory is to rack while there is some fermentation action going to help against oxidizing but then you rack it when it is dry, so I am not seeing the reason to rack early. I ferment to dry in primary, rack and add k-meta, leave sit for 3 months then rack again and every three months there after until I bottle.

Sammyk, just because you have a good ferment going right now does not mean it will continue at that speed after you rack.


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## Sammyk

It is my understanding that there is a lot of kmeta in the juice. Would you still add kmeta again at the first racking?


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## dralarms

I don't add any k-meta until finished.


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## Julie

Like dura arms does, I don't add until fermentation is completed.


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## dralarms

Julie said:


> Like dura arms does, I don't add until fermentation is completed.


Who dat? Lol. Don't ya just love a spell checker v


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## Julie

dralarms said:


> Who dat? Lol. Don't ya just love a spell checker v



Lol, you have that right, iPad is the worst!


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## dralarms

Tell me about it. And siri is the worst thing I've seen, I told her today she was a dipsh$$ and was fired. She said I'll pretend I didn't hear that. I could had chucked my phone out the truck window at 75 mph.


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## Julie

Roflmao, that is hilarious, I have IPhone 4S my contract is up and I'm thinking of getting a Galaxy 4


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## dralarms

All I was trying to do is find an address to auto zone in Knoxville. Stupid thing kept coming up with all kinds of garbage.


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## jamesngalveston

lol, now i am wondering about my yeast ...which one gets drunkest quickest.


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## jamesngalveston

i have a galaxy 4 and love it...the app called (eva) is way better then siri.
my sister has and iphone , and we compared siri against eva...
siri came up with some weird, ::::::::


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## FTC Wines

Going back to the original thread topic, I found ( sort of knew they were there!) four 4L jugs of Blackberry Wine I made in Aug. 2011, from the 1/2 gal concentrate. Anyway we bottled it yesterday, awesome, I topped those off with Blackberry Brandy & ABV was 13.6 % , according to my notes. Very smooth, you would never know this was a "low price" kit. Also in the 18gal tote was one 4L jug of their Chianti also 2 years old & awesome. Roy. PS we knew we were moving soon, so we bulked bottle in jugs ( shortage of bottles) & put the jugs in totes to make the move easier, now 11 months in the new home it's FUN finding what's in the totes!!


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## dralarms

You have to try their passion fruit. Very good.


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## Sammyk

We had to rack yesterday, company for dinner today and we had the 2 5-gallons pails on the table we need for dinner and we have a long work day tomorrow and Wednesday. At the rate they were going down Thursday would have had them totally dry. 
Stirred them up very well and they are perking away this morning. OG was 1.002 and 1.010 last night.


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## Sammyk

Both of the concentrates are now at .990. Will rack, probably tomorrow and add acid blend and sorbate. 

How long to you all age in carboys before you bottle?


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## FTC Wines

I only age them 3-6 months in my carboys. Depending on what else i need the carboys for. They are my "early drinkers". Just started another Blackberry yesterday. Roy


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## Sammyk

We normally age 6 months in carboys but was not sure because this was the first time using concentrates.


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## chasemandingo

Well, let us return to the central question here. As far as many individuals are concerned a fruit wine should be made with all juice. CroakerSoaker has stated that the staff at homewinery have affirmed that the concentrate should be reconstituted at a 1 to 3 ratio to achieve a pure juice. So one half gallon of concentrate could in no way make five gallons of a pure juice. It would make 2 gallons. Im not saying a wine made this way would not be good. It just would not have the fruit intensity or body that a pure juice wine would have. I am planning on doing a blueberry port following the basic recipe as outlined in another thread on this forum and would like to use the concentrate mentioned here. However with a high alcohol wine that will also have booze in it, I need lots of fruit flavor up front. Just trying to figure out whats what. If anyone has input please feel free to chime in.


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## dralarms

I disagree, the instructions clearly state that the 1/2 gallon juice makes 5 gallons.


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## chasemandingo

I understand that that is what is stated on the container of concentrate and on their website. So what is with the misinformation given to Croaker by no less than a staff member at the company. How could they work there and be so wrong about one of their products. Prob shouldn't be spreading false information to the customers.......


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## joeswine

*concentrates????????*

The jury is still out for me, I'm about ready to start to work with both the pineapple which is in  (wine form) and the blueberry still in the plastic jug.


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## croakersoaker

chasemandingo said:


> I understand that that is what is stated on the container of concentrate and on their website. So what is with the misinformation given to Croaker by no less than a staff member at the company. How could they work there and be so wrong about one of their products. Prob shouldn't be spreading false information to the customers.......



I never really got the answer to that question but the concentrate is 65 brix . I suppose if you knew what brix blackberries are normally you could add water until you got to that number. I have read 10-13 brix for blackberries. I bought four half gallons and went ahead and tried it per the instructions with two of them it is aging in secondary now . Ill try it in a couple months and if its not bold enough ill try that. Can anybody confirm the actual brix of blackberries?


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## toddrod

The SG on my homegrown blackberries was 1.050 which is 12.4 Brix. so using the half galloon without adding sugar should get you close to this Brix. the only thing lacking could be the flavor but I normally make my blackberry wine with 2 gallons juice and 3 gallons water so this would be about the same.


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## ffemt128

Looks like this weekend I'll rack miine, kmeta, sorbate and add their packets of acid. It's been since August 20th since racked from bucket to carboy. I'll get off any lees that have dropped since then. I'll let that sit a month then rack and back sweeten. Looking forward to trying this as I've heard grat reviews regarding their products. We have both the black berry and the blu berry going.


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## ffemt128

I'm looking forward to next racking on this. Will likely be next weekend. I will back sweeten at that point. Acid was added to both carboys the begining of the month. Should be a good one. May blend the black berry with some Cab... and see how that works out.


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## Julie

ffemt128 said:


> I'm looking forward to next racking on this. Will likely be next weekend. I will back sweeten at that point. Acid was added to both carboys the begining of the month. Should be a good one. May blend the black berry with some Cab... and see how that works out.



Doug, let me if you do, I'm interested in that blend.


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## dralarms

I had to stick all my juices in the freezer. Got 4 boxes of apples and 10 more gallons of muscadines to get done.


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## ffemt128

Julie said:


> Doug, let me if you do, I'm interested in that blend.


 

I'll definately be doing it. I have 9 gallons of cab and 5.5 gallons of this blackberry. Just a matter of when to attempt. That just means I'll need to make sure I sorbate the Cab since it will no doubt be sweetened a little. I'll keep you posted.


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## FTC Wines

Julie & FFemt, I regularly blend my Dundee Blackberry with their Cab & with another Merlot I have made. Only use 5-10% blackberry, but we really like the difference it makes!! Going to try a weaker blend than that on a Pino Noir we made. Roy


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## Julie

Thanks Roy, I'm thinking I need to try this blend


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## ffemt128

FTC Wines said:


> Julie & FFemt, I regularly blend my Dundee Blackberry with their Cab & with another Merlot I have made. Only use 5-10% blackberry, but we really like the difference it makes!! Going to try a weaker blend than that on a Pino Noir we made. Roy


 
Roy,

Are you keeping this as a dry or blending after sweetening the Blackberry? Thanks for the starting point for the blends. Wasn't sure where to start with that one.


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## FTC Wines

Well, as I type this I/we are enjoying a Dundee Blackberry 2010. It is a little sweeter than I like NOW. Probably SG 1.018ish. We also have 25 bottles of 2012 blackberry & 5 gals in secondary fermentation. Only 2-3 bottles of 2010 left. So to answer your ?? I have back sweetened then blended, & blended setting up the must. Also I started ordering a extra 1/2 gallon from Dundee & using their concentrate to "F PAC" a stabilized wine. (Both Cab & Blackberry) Their prices are SO LOW it's very easy to experiment! I make juice wines from scratch, high end kits & Dundee wines for every day consumption. Just found a source for fresh Calif grapes here in Fl so next year I'll be doing grape wines again from GRAPES. Roy


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## ffemt128

FTC Wines said:


> Well, as I type this I/we are enjoying a Dundee Blackberry 2010. It is a little sweeter than I like NOW. Probably SG 1.018ish. We also have 25 bottles of 2012 blackberry & 5 gals in secondary fermentation. Only 2-3 bottles of 2010 left. So to answer your ?? I have back sweetened then blended, & blended setting up the must. Also I started ordering a extra 1/2 gallon from Dundee & using their concentrate to "F PAC" a stabilized wine. (Both Cab & Blackberry) Their prices are SO LOW it's very easy to experiment! I make juice wines from scratch, high end kits & Dundee wines for every day consumption. Just found a source for fresh Calif grapes here in Fl so next year I'll be doing grape wines again from GRAPES. Roy


 

Their prices and shipping is very reasonable. Looking forward to doing some blending.


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## joeswine

*Blackberry pino noir*

Blackberry pino noir,this is a blended wine consisting of blackberry wine from walkers and a california pino noir fresh juice i produced in 2007,and its still holding,deep taste and great texture the blend is 35% blackberry 65% pino.................


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## jswordy

FTC Wines said:


> Also I started ordering a extra 1/2 gallon from Dundee & using their concentrate to "F PAC" a stabilized wine.



This is an excellent technique I have used myself.


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## FTC Wines

Thanks Joe, I was thinking of a 20% Blackberry/80% Pino Noir. Well play with different blends. My favorite part of Wine Making!! Roy


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## ffemt128

After several bench tests, I sweetened the black and blueberry wines to 1.010. They both have good flavor, but still taste the 3 months kld that they are. Will continue to age and sampme again in 3 months and make any necessary adjustments at that point. I'm wondering how this would turn out if you doubled the concentrate amount and adjusted the acid accordingly. I'm thinking it would be pretty darn good.


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## FTC Wines

FF, I have added a pint of their concentrate to the normal 1/2 gal at the start. Kicks up the "boldness". I have done this with their Blackberry & Cab, but not with their Chianti, we like that as our mild pizza wine. Roy


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## joeswine

*Balance*

The key to those concentrates in my opinion, is to not make a full 5 gallons , if you can take you down lower for a half gallon batch I know this sounds a bit out of place it makes a much better finish line truer flavor than having to add anything at the end so far from my experiments on the pineapple will be ready to bottle that label soon and by producing a smaller batch this concentrate I've got a better tasting wine with a good wine finished taste, does that make sense?


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## Polarhug

My recent blueberry was a homewinery.com concentrate. To kick it up a notch I also added 5lbs frozen blueberries in the primary, and used 5lbs in the secondary as an F-Pac. Heavily oaked it and it turned out amazing in aroma and flavor. My advice is don't be afraid to add extra goodies to bling it out!

My Sauternes from homewinery.com is happily in secondary. Also added 4lbs of bananas to it in addition to the sugar. Lovely body at 1.00. 

Trying to decide what my next concentrate will be!


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## Jamie

I was reading the instructions that were on the website and one thing that confused me was the suggestions for the amount of sugar added to control the sweetness. Wouldnt this only change the final alcohol content if its added prior to stabilizing?


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## dralarms

As stated before, the instructions are foolproof. If you want my opinion, 4 gallons of water, 1/2 gallon juice, sugar to 1.100 and you can add the acid before or after, it doesn't matter. If you do it this way then you can control the final products sweetness better. I've made 15 batches of their juice so far and have 12 or13 in the freezer waiting on carboys.


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## dralarms

Oh, and welcome to WMT.


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## Julie

Hi Jamie, I would do as dralarms said but I won't go that high for an sg, go about 1.080 - 1.090. Sorry dralarms but you boys seem to want to push the alcohol level to high!


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## Jamie

Thanks guys, I'm pretty new at this but from what I've read the addition of sugar prior to stabilizing will result in more alcohol, not more sweetness. Or are the assuming your going to stop the fermentation early to conserve some of the added sugar? 

Just trying to get my bearings


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## dralarms

Julie said:


> Hi Jamie, I would do as dralarms said but I won't go that high for an sg, go about 1.080 - 1.090. Sorry dralarms but you boys seem to want to push the alcohol level to high!



I'm always pushing the limits.


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## Julie

dralarms said:


> I'm always pushing the limits.



Lol, I know.


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## Julie

Jamie don't try to stop fermentation, it is difficult to do. Add enough sugar to bring your must up to the sg that you want and let it ferment to dry.


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## FTC Wines

Jamie, I agree with Julie, I always ferment their wines dry! then back sweeten if necessary. I have 2 batches in priomaries as I type this. I never put their concentrate directly into a carboy. (Personnel choice) I ferment 4-5 days in a open/covered fermentor, when SG is around1.020-1.010 I transfer to secondary, leave it for 6-8 weeks, rack, then add acid, and stabilize it. Age for another 4-6 months, bottle & ENJOY! Their wines have taken over as my "early" drinkers, used to be Skeeter Pee. Roy


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## Jamie

Thanks guys. 

So I guess everyone is in agreement that adding sugar prior to stabilization will result in more alcohol and not a sweeter wine as the instructions would lead you to believe?

I just like to get an understanding of how things work so I know how to tweak things in the future to get the results that I would like. I thought I had a handle on the sugar thing until I read those instructions and it made me question what I thought I knew


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## Julie

Add enough sugar at the beginning to get your sg to where you want it, ferment to dry, if you want a sweet wine, then add k-meta and sorbate, now add sugar to desired sweetness


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## FTC Wines

Jamie, I thought I knew too!! Never understood how varying amounts of sugar in the beginning could vary sweetness in the end. So just make it the way YOU are comfortable with!! Roy


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## dralarms

Well if you put the 10 lbs of sugar in at the start it will not ferment to dry it will stop at around 1.015 or pretty close. I didnt say their directions dont work, just that its harder to control the final product. The yeast provided works very well to bring out the fruit flavor.


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## jamesngalveston

I agree with dralarms, if you add the 10lbs of sugar it will never go dry are to .990, the yeast will be dead from consuming the sugar.
I doubt at 1.015 you will be able to taste very much sweetness, as the 
sweetness starts to disappear about 1.055...from then on it starts tasting dryer and dryer until it finished.
on my ports i start tasting at these levels...1.040,1.045,1.050,1.055, etc.
each 5 points on the hydrometer can clearly show sweetness to dryness levels.
just saying


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## Julie

1.010 would be a semi-sweet wine and you should detect the sweetness, 1.040 is very sweet, actually, I would think that is close to syrupy. James, because it is a port you can handle that high of a sweet level because of the higher alcohol.

And I would not recommend adding that amount of sugar and hoping it ferments down to a certain sg.


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## SouthernChemist

jamesngalveston said:


> I agree with dralarms, if you add the 10lbs of sugar it will never go dry are to .990, the yeast will be dead from consuming the sugar. I doubt at 1.015 you will be able to taste very much sweetness, as the sweetness starts to disappear about 1.055...from then on it starts tasting dryer and dryer until it finished. on my ports i start tasting at these levels...1.040,1.045,1.050,1.055, etc. each 5 points on the hydrometer can clearly show sweetness to dryness levels. just saying



It's always about the other components. 1.040+ is approaching ice wine territory, and it's about the SG of most apple juice you can buy. I think what's more likely the case is that a SG of 1.040-1.050 is where you're starting to pick on other components that were being completely masked prefermentation. I agree that 1.010 would be closer to semi sweet.


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## frosti

Quick question, anyone tried the muscat concentrate from there? Im doing 6 gallons from a half gallon jug plus a pint from there in an attempt to make a Moscato wine for the girlfriend. 

Just curious if anyone had any experiance on this.


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## frosti

No one has used the muscat concentrate?


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## dralarms

Not me, I thought it said muskrat.


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## bg7mm

purchased a blackberry, a peach and a watermelon from home winery, all making some good looking batches of 5 gallons now. peach and watermelon almost complete in secondary, blackberry still going strong in primary, good prices and good juice from this comapny


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## tkmorgan

bg7mm said:


> purchased a blackberry, a peach and a watermelon from home winery, all making some good looking batches of 5 gallons now. peach and watermelon almost complete in secondary, blackberry still going strong in primary, good prices and good juice from this comapny



I've heard that watermelon takes some love (meaning either work, luck, or time). I'd be interested in knowing how the watermelon turns out.


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## Julie

tkmorgan said:


> I've heard that watermelon takes some love (meaning either work, luck, or time). I'd be interested in knowing how the watermelon turns out.



I wonder if this was pasteurized, there has to be some assurances that it would not spoil for them to sell it.


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## akira7799

Has anyone ever doubled the concentrate for a 6 gallon batch?


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## FTC Wines

I have never doubled it. But I make a lot of their Reds & I use one pint per gallon. Some times adding raisins or real fruit too. Roy


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## akira7799

Okay, for the sake of experimentation I'll be using one of the half gallon Homewinery.com Blackberry concentrates and a 96 oz. can of Vintner's Harvest Blackberries for a 5 gallon batch. I'm expecting (and hoping) for an over-the-top full-bodied jammy mouthfeel. This will be oaked and I will either update this thread (or create a new thread) and link it to this thread when I start. 

Dave


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## akira7799

www.winepress.us/forums/index.php?/topic/56948-big-blackberry-wine/

Link to the thread for my blackberry wine.


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## StartingLateAt49yo

I don't know if anyone reads this old thread, but....

The official legal U.S. Brix for BlackBerry is 10.0. ( 
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/19/151.91
). 

So one 64 ounce jug of blackberry juice concentrate would make 3.4 gallons of wine, if used at 100% pure unconcentrated undiluted juice strength. Assuming starting Brix of 68. 

(Because 68Brix/10Brix=6.8 jugs of concentrate. ….. 6.8jugs *64 ounces per jug=435.2 ounces. 435.2/128=3.4 gallons).


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## sour_grapes

StartingLateAt49yo said:


> So one 64 ounce jug of blackberry juice concentrate would make 3.4 gallons of wine, if used at 100% pure unconcentrated undiluted juice strength.



Note, however, that is would only be about 5% ABV at that Brix.


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## StartingLateAt49yo

Yes thanks. I should have mentioned that. I was focused on trying to answer the question of how to get the concentrate to match the state of natural unconcentrated juice. this is the case with most fruit wines-- sugar needs to be added since many fruits don't have the higher sugar content like wine grapes do, in general. Acid adjustments are also commonly needed in fruit wines.


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## heatherd

It's interesting that you can pay $95 for a blackberry pail from Walkers or $31.95 for blackberry concentrate from Homewinery.

It's nice that they put the instructions on the website, including how much sugar to add to get your target dryness:
http://www.homewinery.com/concentrate.pdf

Haven't made any wine from concentrate yet but that's a tempting price.


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## roger80465

heatherd said:


> It's interesting that you can pay $95 for a blackberry pail from Walkers or $31.95 for blackberry concentrate from Homewinery.
> 
> It's nice that they put the instructions on the website, including how much sugar to add to get your target dryness:
> http://www.homewinery.com/concentrate.pdf
> 
> Haven't made any wine from concentrate yet but that's a tempting price.



I haven't made the blackberry but have made the elderberry and it's quite good. Still young but really nice. If the rest of the concentrates are like the elderberry, they are a real bargain.


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## dralarms

heatherd said:


> It's interesting that you can pay $95 for a blackberry pail from Walkers or $31.95 for blackberry concentrate from Homewinery.
> 
> It's nice that they put the instructions on the website, including how much sugar to add to get your target dryness:
> http://www.homewinery.com/concentrate.pdf
> 
> Haven't made any wine from concentrate yet but that's a tempting price.



Yea, uh throw those instructions away, add your juice, add your water, add the acid, add sugar to the proper sg or brix then add the yeast. My brother insists on using those instructions and right now is sitting on a clear concord finished at 1.070. Pancake syrup with a kick.


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## StartingLateAt49yo

dralarms said:


> Yea, uh throw those instructions away, add your juice, add your water, add the acid, add sugar to the proper sg or brix then add the yeast. My brother insists on using those instructions and right now is sitting on a clear concord finished at 1.070. Pancake syrup with a kick.



Definitely agree. Don't just dump in sugar from recipe. Use the hydrometer. It's not hard and it's fun.

You can always back sweeten. 

Add your juice, water (3 to 5 gallons depending on your taste and the fruit, probably 4-5 for blackberry and Blueberry, 3-4 for apricot), add acid, then take your base SG reading with hydrometer.  Write it down in your log /notes. Add small amount of sugar, stop, take an SG reading. Add a little more sugar, take SG reading again. Continue a little at a time until you reach your desired starting SG. Prepare the yeast and add it.

(When you make your next batch, you will be able to start with a larger amount of sugar per reading). 

The only thing the sugar pounds in the instructions are good for is to give you an idea if you have enough sugar in the house, or if you need to run to the store and restock. 

Regarding cost: if you are comparing five gallons of Walkers unconcentrated to this, homewinery is actually $46.95 plus shipping for 5 gallons of Walkers unconcentrated juice. (31.95 for 3.4 gallons……. 31.95/3.4=9.3971…………. 9.39*5=46.95). Walkers shipping will be much higher. 

See my post above or http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=576524&postcount=137


Many do like Walkers though….


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## dorfie

last i had talked the the owner of homewinery, he was going to get a higher discount for shipping of the concentrates. it's still high, for me, but it's lower than walkers. 
As i am in Minnesota on the far west side, i don't think it would be worth me paying the shipping for walkers, though i wish i could...
homewinery though i would pay for, only buying in groups though to make the shipping more economical. guess I'm cheap haha
I am thinking of doing the Blackberry, Watermelon, Cab Sauv, and possibly the elderberry if i don't get any fruit. Really looking forward to the watermelon! 
i am thinking with the Cab that i would test the TA and only dilute to the level the get it around .6 or so. since the recipe requires sugar and acid i think it must be diluted some from full strength juice.


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## lottolearn

*homewinery.com vs vintners*

Good morning I have never tried the juice concentrates from Homewinery.com but I have used Vintners concentrates before. What are your thoughts on the two. Which do you think is better? Thank you.


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## dralarms

I like homewinery.com stuff better.


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## Julie

I have not used Vintners but I have used Homewinery fruit concentrates and they make a very good wine.


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## ceeaton

lottolearn said:


> Good morning I have never tried the juice concentrates from Homewinery.com but I have used Vintners concentrates before. What are your thoughts on the two. Which do you think is better? Thank you.



I've used both. The Blackberry from Homewinery is pretty good, though not a year old yet. It doesn't have a lot of body in my opinion. I made a Blackberry and Raspberry Vintners last fall and added some red grape concentrate to increase the body, but they are still bulk aging. Guess I could give them a taste tonight when I get home. Getting within a couple weeks of me having to rack them and add some more kmeta.

By no means am I knocking the Howewinery concentrate, I just think I'd add something other than sugar to up the SG and add some body if I use their concentrate again. Also my LHBS carries the Vintners concentrates, so no shipping costs involved, which is nice.

Edit: I was wrong, made a Blueberry and Raspberry Vintners concentrate. Both had a 1 Litre Red Grape concentrate (60 something brix) added. The SG on the Raspberry was 1.074, so no rocket fuel here. Right now it is dry (no sorbate or sweetner yet) and it is quite drinkable, but I can tell it will be better if I backsweeten a bit. Nice nose and lot's of raspberry flavor. Medium body.


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## Jericurl

I've used both and been happy with both.

What are you thinking of making?


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## dcbrown73

I absolutely love Blackberry since my grandmother made blackberry cobbler when I was a kid. I'm going to have to try this Eldberry wine. How exactly do you deal with making 5 gallons of wine when I only have three and five gallon carboys? (I have no room for more sizes until I purchase another home!)


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## VinoKS

I have been using their concentrates quite a bit in the past year, since I got turned on to it by reading WMT. I have made blackberry, watermelon, strawberry and red raspberry. I also made two batches of sweet cherry, back flavored with a pint of tart cherry concentrate...amazingly good and friends ran me out quickly, so I had to make a second one. I have blueberry and pear concentrate sitting in the freezer waiting to be made. 

I have just been making 3 gallon batches, seeing what I like, then I will make 6 gallon batches of those. I have been bottling in 375 ml split bottles since these have been 3 gallon batches. I have used a single half-gallon of concentrate for each 3 gallon batch. I have been fermenting on 3 pints and back flavoring with the leftover pint. It has worked out very well this way. My wife likes sweet wine, so I have the luxury of using the reserved pint to flavor and sweeten with. I would use it all, if I wanted it finished dry. I have been very happy with their fruit concentrates.


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## Julie

@VinoKS, how is the watermelon? I keep looking at it but so far haven't bought it.


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## VinoKS

It turned out nicely. I added a pint of pure watermelon juice to it in addition to the reserved pint of concentrate to back flavor with. It's about 10 months old now and is really good. That one, I make sure to drink cold. As it warms up to room temperature, I feel the alcohol overpowers the flavor a little bit, as watermelon is pretty delicate. It is really good cold


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## FTC Wines

I've made their ( Home Winery) Blackberry, Blueberry, Elderberry & Cab, love them all. But as I've said before I use 5 pints per 5 gals. If Cab it's all Cab, if it's one of the 3 mentioned fruits I use 4 pints is the fruit, say Blackberry & 1 pint of cab. It makes an awesome wine. I adjust the acid/ph accordingly,. I also some times add a pound of raisins to the Cab & Elderberry. Really kicks it it up! Roy


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## lottolearn

Thank you for the response. I will probably try both blackberry concentrates and see which one turns out better. I will let you know how it goes.


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## StartingLateAt49yo

I've used Homewinery not Vinters, very happy with it. 

If you like peach schnapps then try their Apricot (make it sweet). I like dry reds in general, but some guests/friends like sweet so I tried this. Comes out very well and I drink it 2 ways: 1-Mix the finished Apricot wine with vodka (or gin if you like), shake with ice. Or second way-- just drink normally from bottle as a sweet wine.

Of course you could (not LOL) make your own vodka too but that's another story...

From my log:
○ I used 3 gallons of water and 48 oz of apricot concentrate, instead of 5gallons and 64 oz.p 
○ Instead of adding 6 pounds of sugar, I added sugar until I got the SG to 1094. 

○ 1040: SG reading after adding 3gallons water, but before adding sugar. 
○ 1094: SG reading after adding 3gallons water, AND after adding sugar.


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## hounddawg

I HAVE USED MOST EVERYTHING I GROW ON MY LAND, BUT I HAVE USED FROM HOMEWINERY, , ELDERBERRY, APPLE, STRAWBERRY, BLACKBERRY, SO FAR, AND IF WE HAVE A DRY YEAR LIKE LAST YEAR I'LL BE USING FROM THEM, QUITE A FEW QUARTS TO MAKE 5 GALLON OF FINISHED WINE, I TRIED A COUPLE DIFFERENT BRANDS THAT COME IN A NUMBER #10 CAN (OR GALLON CAN) THOSE TOOK 2 CANS JUST TO MAKE A DRINKABLE WINE, BUT A QUART FROM HOME WINERY I STERT IN A 6 GALLON CARBOR, THEN COME TIME I FILTER RACK WITH STEVE'S ALLINONEPUMP.COM INTO A 5 GALLON CARBOY ANY EXTER I HAVE CORKS THAT FIT DOWN TO A WINE BOTTLE AS AN EXTER CARBOY, an I must say homewinery.com makes wine that it's all but impossible to tell from fresh picked, so 1 fact is as long as they are in business they will be getting some of my money, everybody don't have extra land to grow their own fruits an barriers, an muscadine like I do, I have 19 acers just for growing differ things, but what I don't grow I go straight to homewinery.com and the worse my health gets the more I'll be going to homewinery.com, and of course Steve's allinonewinepump.com so no more lifting heavy carboys,,
Richard::


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## dcbrown73

I had asked earlier, but didn't get a response so I want to try this again.

These homewinery.com juice concentrates seem to come for 5 gallon batches. I only have three gallon and six gallon carboys. How exactly do you handle this while protecting against too much head space?

I really don't have room for more carboys in more sizes. The juice pack seems to be around $30 and I really don't want to buy two just so I can use 20% of the second one. I suppose I could make a six and a three gallon and lose 20% of the juice, but I would rather limit it to just six gallons. (again, carboy issues and I would prefer to use the others for other types of wine)


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## sour_grapes

@dcbrown73 , you may not have gotten any response before because you initially said


> How exactly do you deal with making 5 gallons of wine when I only have three and *five* gallon carboys?



Now that we know you have 6, there aren't any great solutions. One is to plan on adding 1 gallon's worth of marbles to your carboy. The other thing that comes to mind, which is what I would do, is to add a gallon's worth or more of another juice (at the right brix). Something that you think would go well with blackberry, like cherry or apple.


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## cintipam

Also, homewinery has some 1 qt containers available, but you need to email and ask them what is in stock.

Personally, I mostly use them by combining 1 concentrate with one juice bucket of the same type. I add more fluid by assorted fruit juices (only 4 gallons worth tho to give me a chance to prefix watery juice buckets which does occasionally happen) which add some back notes of fruit. I also add actual fruit from my yard. By the time I'm totally done (meaning approx 1 yr later) I wind up with between 11-12 gallons of very tasty wine.

Since that works out so well for me I bet you could use 1 concentrate, use fruit juice instead of water plus add a couple actual juice drink concentrates to pump it up a bit. Should be able to get 6 gallons easy that way. 

OR, just add water and only make 4 gallons. It's easy to get a one gallon4/liter jug by buying Carlo Rossi wine in a type that should work to top ups for you. If you buy 2 jugs you've solved your problem longterm by using a 3 gallon and (2) one gallons. Gives you a chance to experiment too.

Pam in cinti


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## cintipam

Thought I'd add another possibility. I usually make white wine which is why i can add apple juice etc. But when I am making red wine I've had great results by adding concentrated tart cherry and or pomegranate juice. Both are available from health food stores, tho I just order from Puritans pride. Even I shudder a little bit at the thought of adding too much concord grape juice to a decent red wine.

Pam in cinti


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