# Waldo's Port Wine



## Waldo (Nov 16, 2006)

Following is the recipe I formulated for this Port:


1 can Vinters Harvest Black Current Fruit Base


2 16 oz Bottles of Red Grape Concentrate


12 lbs. Sugar


1 lb. dried banana chips (unglazed)


6 oz dried elderberries


1/2 lb. golden raisins (chopped)


4 Tbsp. Acid Blend


4 Tsp Yeast Nutrient


2 Tsp Yeast Energizer


6 Campden Tablets


Water to 6 Gallon


1 Pkg Wyeast Portwine Liquid yeast


Finally got all my ingrediants in today and started my Port this evening using the following steps:


Cleaned and sanitized primary fermenter &amp; all other utensils I anticipated using in preparing the must.


Poured the Red Grape concentrate and Black Currant base into fermenter.


Dissolved 6.5 lbs of the sugar in boiling water and while letting it cool I


(a) chopped up the 1/2 lbs golden raisins


(b) Added Raisins, Banana Chips &amp; Elderberries to strainer bag


(c) Added water 4.5 Gallon water to fermenter


(d) Added Yeast Energizer and Acid Blend to must and stirred until my arm fell off...Then stirred some more.


NOTE HERE: The liquid yeast I found out when I got it today has a packet of nutrient inside it that you break open inside the liquid yeast


( similiar to those heat packets that you crush to mis the chemicals that generate the heat) and thus I did not have to add the Yeast Nutrient I have listed on my recipe.


Added sugar water to must and gave it another good stirring and checked SG at 1.070 at a must temperature of 74 degrees.


Tasted the must,,,Oh Yeah !!!! Added strainer bag and covered the fermenter and will let it sit until tomorrow evening at which time I will check SG once again and then bust open the liquid yeast packet. Let it work as directed and should be pitching the yeast about this time tomorrow evening.


ANOTHER NOTE: Once fermentation has been going, I will check SG and once it reaches 1.020 I will dissolve the other 5.5 lbs sugar and feed it to the must. There should still be plenty of hungry yeast cells as this packet of liquid yeast has over 5 BILLION live yeast cells.

I have anticipation of this being a really good one.


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## Wade E (Nov 16, 2006)

Sounds really good. I see you got another Black Currant.


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## jobe05 (Nov 16, 2006)

Sounds interesting Waldo and looks like a good recipe. The liquid yeast would be interesting, never used it myself. Keep us posted (in otherwords PICTURES!!!!!)


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 16, 2006)

That just sounds so good....all that fruit...yuummm!! Got to be good.
Will it be a 5 or 6 gallon batch????


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## Wade E (Nov 16, 2006)

6 gallons, what else. I dont think Waldo knows how to do anything in a smaller scale anymore. He go's bigtime!


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## Waldo (Nov 17, 2006)

The Port Must...


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## bmorosco (Nov 17, 2006)

NICE!!!


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## kutya (Nov 17, 2006)

Someone tell me the difference between liquid yeast and dry yeast?? I normally make a yeast starter and pour it in. I'm assuming with liquid yeast you just pour it in? Or do you still make a starter??? I've seen liquid yeast, but have never tried it. Waldo, this recipe looks great I hope you keep us posted as I'm sure you will....


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## masta (Nov 18, 2006)

Liquid yeast has advantages like the variety of strains and more importantly the flavor profile of the finished wine.


This is why beer brewers like myself use liquid yeast since the yeast is critical to the flavor of the finished beer.


Bottom Line: You have some flexibility in regards to final ABV and flavor profile with dryyeastbut liquid yest gives you much more but comes with asubstantially higher price tag.


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## Waldo (Nov 18, 2006)

HELPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I fear I have botched this one big time but will await some input from someone who may know. I pitched the yeast yesterday evening on my Port and of about 30 minutes ago...NADA !!! Here is what has happened. I noticed an oily sheen across the top of the must so i drew a sample off the top and sure enough it is almost greasy feeling on anything it comes in contact with. I went back and checked and the dried, unsweetened, all natural bananas I put in the must had " Banana Oil" added to them which I did not catch beforehand or #1 I would never have bought them and # 2 I sure would not have put them in my must. So, Is this batch doomed for the drain pipes orwill it maybe go ahead and ferment or, based on the premise that the oil is on top can I drain must from spigot and salvage part of it.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 18, 2006)

OH NO!!!!!</font>





You got to try something, go for the spigot thing and leave the nasty oils in the bucket....You may loose some of those beautiful juices...but worth a try....

Keep us Posted....


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## Wade E (Nov 18, 2006)

I would definetly try draining it. You may only end up with a 5 gallon batch but anything at this point is worth saving .


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## pkcook (Nov 18, 2006)

Waldo,


Before I did anything, I'd try another inoculation of yeast. Did you use a yeast starter? If not, try one with some of the must in the jar. That looks way too good to let the drain drink it. I don't believe the oil will be that big of problem. I'd wait till after you get it fermented before getting too concerned about it. The yeasties are pretty incredible creatures and who knows what they might take care of? Keep us posted and good luck!


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## rshosted (Nov 18, 2006)

Waldo, that is a pretty tough problem. My thought is get rid of the top. Maybe even put it in a fridge or freezer and get it very cold. The oil should thicken more than the wine. You could scrape it off or use a coffe filter to get it off the top?

Or use your spigot. I would get rid of it because my thought it the yeast will not get as much oxegyn if they are using all the oxygen from the wine and teh oil would prevent more from getting in there...? 

Let us know what happens....


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## bmorosco (Nov 18, 2006)

Waldo get rid of the top I would tip the fermenter and either use a turkey baster and siphon off the oil..Sorry to hear about that..


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## Waldo (Nov 18, 2006)

* "In the counsel of many is Wisdom"*
After consulting with George and his advice being in agreement with the consensus here, I went ahead and transferred the must to another fermenter using the spigotand left over half in the original fermenter to try and clean the oil off the top as I felt as George did that the oil was blocking off the oxygen to the must, thereby inhibiting fermentation.






About 2 hours after I did the transfer I had a good fermentation going.








I have slowly been adding more out of the original fermenter into the new one and I have now salvaged about 4.5 gallon of the must. Just not sure what I will call it now but without benifit of the raisins, bananas and elderberries it will not be the Port I intended.


*FOLKS, here is a good lesson in not assuming anything and paying attention to detail....like reading ALL the ingrediants on everything you are adding to your must to make wine.



*

Am I disappointed.......SURE 
Did I Learn from this.........You Bet I Did
What is my next course of action?...I Have already ordered everything needed to make another batch.


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## Wade E (Nov 18, 2006)

Ordered another Black Currant huh. We are going to put the companies workers kids through college.


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## jobe05 (Nov 19, 2006)

Waldo:


Since you are at the begining stages of fermentation, could you just add the ingredients to this batch to bring you level back up to 6 gallons?


Question: Why would one add dried banana's anyways? If you could add fresh, or somthing else to the wine if your only adding them for body? What was your reasoning for adding dried banana's? I have heard of a few people doing this and so far, all of them had ill results from it.


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## PolishWineP (Nov 19, 2006)

Oh Waldo!



I'm going to have to give you the title I often give Bert. Poor Waldo! But, thank you for share and maybe preventing some other poor soul from going through this very thing.


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## Wade E (Nov 19, 2006)

He probably was trying to eliminate the mess of a fully ripenmed banana
mess. I probably would try the same as the mushy banana mess kind of
scares me off.


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## Waldo (Nov 19, 2006)

jobe05 said:


> Waldo:
> 
> 
> Since you are at the begining stages of fermentation, could you just add the ingredients to this batch to bring you level back up to 6 gallons?
> ...




My thinking, perhaps erroneous jobe was that I might benifit by the bananas being dried in that I would achieve the extra body I was wanting without the mess of fresh bananas. Has anyone else used dried bananas? 
Anyway, I found some more, whole red bananas, dried, from Mexico that are definately all natural so I am going to try them. Will I sample one first to make sure I get no oily residue from them.......ya damn betcha I will !!!


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## jobe05 (Nov 19, 2006)

Waldo:


I think it was Jack Keller! On his blog a while ago he did the same thing. When he originally bought the dried Bananas, he was certain to double check to make sure they were all Natural. It was a while from the tie he bought them and made his wine, only to find out his wife thought they were better right out of the bag, leaving him with not enough. So he went back to the store and bought another bag. Although they said they were all natural, they had oil in them. Exact situation as yours. I forgot if he indicated what he did to rectify the problem.


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## Waldo (Nov 19, 2006)

jobe05 said:


> Waldo:
> 
> 
> I think it was Jack Keller! On his blog a while ago he did the same thing. When he originally bought the dried Bananas, he was certain to double check to make sure they were all Natural. It was a while from the tie he bought them and made his wine, only to find out his wife thought they were better right out of the bag, leaving him with not enough. So he went back to the store and bought another bag. Although they said they were all natural, they had oil in them. Exact situation as yours. I forgot if he indicated what he did to rectify the problem.




Well heck..If ole Jack did it, I don't feel near so bad




Just kidding...I would like to know if he did indicate what he did if you can find it jobe.


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## jobe05 (Nov 19, 2006)

Here it is Waldo:


*January 21st, 2006

*


*A belated Happy New Year and Hello to all. The holidays were very good to us and we hope they were to you, too.*


*I recently decided to make a banana wine from a recipe sent to me by Jason Killingsworth, using dried banana chips. Here is the recipe:*
*Banana Wine

*
<UL>
<LI>*10 oz. Dried bananas *
<LI>*1 can concentrated Niagara grape juice (orange is not a substitute in this case) *
<LI>*1 gallon warm water (warm enough to bring concentrate to room temp) *
<LI>*2 lbs sugar (this will vary, SG should be 1.093-1.095) *
<LI>*1 crushed Campden tablet *
<LI>*1/2 level teaspoon yeast nutrient *
<LI>*3 level teaspoons acid blend *
<LI>*1 packet Montrachet yeast *</LI>[/list]


*Put banana chips into a straining bag and mix all ingredients except yeast into primary. When must is room temperature sprinkle yeast gently over the must. After a "cap" forms, stir must daily for 5-7 days. If possible, strain must into secondary and wait 3 weeks, Siphon, top up and fit airlock and repeat and in another 3 months siphon into another secondary or bottling bucket. The FG should be 0.995 or lower and no stabilizer required. Bottle and age at least 10 months. Aged, this is a wonderful table wine that will go well with any non-spicy chicken, fish or even bar-b-q. [Recipe from Jason Killingsworth]*
*How Things Go Wrong

*


*I bought a bag of banana chips at a local supermarket. I checked the label and it said they were 100% dehydrated banana chips "atomized in sulfur dioxide as a preservative." I brought them home but neglected to tell my wife they were for wine, so she opened the bag and ate a few. I decided it would be easy enough to buy more, so let her have the first bag.*


*It was perhaps a week before I returned to the market and bought another bag. The chips were in the same location in the store as the previous bag, but the package's label was just a little different in shape. Still, the chips looked the same. I brought them home and started the wine. Because I was out of Montrachet yeast, I used Gervin's No. 2 (French Strain) and made a starter solution, which I added to the must after it was at 72 degrees F. The next morning I noticed small globules the color of butter floating on the surface of the must. Indeed, they felt like butter when rubbed between thumb and fingers. I dug through the trash and dug out the bag the bananas had come in. The label indicated two additional ingredients -- honey and soy oil.*


*For five days, twice a day, I skimmed a teaspoon or so of soy oil off the surface of the must. It congealed on and inside the nylon straining bag, stuck to the sides of the primary, and in general looked unsightly, but it really caused no harm to the must. I strained it through a 0.075 (millimeter) mesh screen and continued fermenting the must. It has been two weeks and I think it is doing fine.*


*The lesson, for those who have not inferred it, is to always read the ingredients on the label. As much as I preach this, it is embarrassing to admit that this time I failed to do so. I assumed the ingredients were the same as the first package. That was a mistake, but not a fatal one.*


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## Wade E (Nov 19, 2006)

Thats funny, I went looking for it, found it, copied and went to post
when I saw that jobe found it already. Took awhile to find it and read
some of the other stuff on the site.


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## Waldo (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks jobe......Well, I have been doing basically the same thing but I had very little of the oily residue left and I believe I have now salvaged what I guess will become........Heck..I don't know...Just A nice red wine I guess. The fermentation is going strong, the aroma is intensifying and has hints of blackcherries and chocolate if you can believethat. Have not tasted it yet but probably will in a couple of days. I did dissolve 2.5 lbs more sugar this evening and add to it.


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## pkcook (Nov 20, 2006)

That looks good Waldo. Glad you didn't dump it and things are looking up!


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## bmorosco (Nov 20, 2006)

Looks great waldo!!


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## Wade E (Nov 20, 2006)

Looking good Waldo, how much do you think yuore going to get out of
this batch now. % gallons? Are you going to have to get a 5 gallon
carboy now or just put it in a few gallon jugs?


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## Waldo (Nov 20, 2006)

With the addition of the sugar ands a little more water I am back up to 5 gallon now and I have 2 more carboys I picked up at the Mountain VAlley Spring water store.


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## Wade E (Nov 20, 2006)

Are they plastic or glass?


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## Waldo (Nov 21, 2006)

Definately glass wade and they sell them for 10 bucks each or at least they used to. I almost had to beg to get these but the promise of couple of bottles of Muscadine to the Managertipped the scales in my favor. The lady at the front desk told me that they had decided about 5 weeks ago not to sell anymore as it was costiing them more than they were paying for the bottles by the time they figured in all the cost of preparing and processing the invoice etc etc.


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## Waldo (Nov 21, 2006)

pkcook said:


> That looks good Waldo. Glad you didn't dump it and things are looking up!




Thanks pk and bmorosco....I'm glad I didn't dump ittoo. *Edited by: Waldo *


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## Wade E (Nov 21, 2006)

Good deal.


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## Waldo (Nov 21, 2006)

I*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Stvr (Nov 21, 2006)

Mr. Waldo, 


I'm pleased to read that you didn't lose your batch. That must havebeen a little hairy going for a while!






Myself, I prefer to use fresh bananas for wine body enrichment and mouth feel. My first (successful) attempt at Banana Wine, I PEELED all 16 lbs. and tossed them in the bucket. What a fuzzy and gooey mess that was come first racking!!!


Anyhoo's, since then Inow then cut them into 1/4" thick silver dollars leaving the skins on. They stay mostly intact till racking time. I don't even bag'em and let them float free in the must.


Looks like a great recipe, continued good luck to you.*Edited by: Stvr *


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## Wade E (Nov 21, 2006)

Leave the skins on ay, they dont impart an off taste? I have never used
bananas before but have been thiking about but didnt know if I wanted
to get that messy. Can you post that 16 lb. recipe?


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## Waldo (Nov 21, 2006)

Stvr said:


> Mr. Waldo,
> 
> 
> I'm pleased to read that you didn't lose your batch. That must havebeen a little hairy going for a while!
> ...




Thanks stvr....I will take the fresh bananas under advisement. Do you advocate fresh, kinda ripe or fully ripened ( kinda black) for your wine?


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## Waldo (Nov 21, 2006)

I racked the wine ( Notice I did not say Port)to glass tonight




As we reflect on what went wrong here, how it could have been prevented and I heal from the hurt of my stupidity I am comforted in the lamentations and open grief shown by my good friends ( ok jobe, get that smirk off your face) during this most troublesome time in my wine making experience. We shll all counsel together now and decide what I am going to call this wine as it no longer has the potential of being the Port I had envisioned at its conception......WAIT...A moment of silence please before you offer up your suggestions.................................................OK...Lets have them.


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## NorthernWinos (Nov 21, 2006)

Whine Wine....





Seriously, I am so glad that you salvaged all those beautiful fruits and juices...It might turn out to be your best yet.

After your experience I bought some big red Flame Grape raisins...[to eat in oatmeal] but was thinking about wine....now I see that they too have oil on them...must keep them from sticking to each other, or preservatives.

Hope this wine turns out to be the best yet.


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## Stvr (Nov 21, 2006)

The hardest part was getting used to leaving the skins on. When you bite into the skin they are so bitter. Several recipes I found on the net said to leave the skins intact. One author stated that it was a good source of tannin. That was good enough for me. 


If you leave the skins on it isn't messy at all. I choose to use yellowripe but NOT too ripe or black-ripe bananas as some recipes ask for. If you do use over ripe fruit,then I woulddefinitely bag the stuff.


The recipe I use as a guideline is from a "WINEMAKING" book published by Stanley F. Anderson and Dorthy Anderson (1989). They suggest leaving the skins on also.They use oranges and a little vermouth for palate complexity which iswhy I like their recipe.
(I add a Tbl.Spn. of oak chips to the primary and a Cinnamon stick to the 1st. secondary)


! (I just noticed while going over the recipe and my notesthat I used to much Vinacid R) !


Doh!


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## Stvr (Nov 21, 2006)

Waldo said:


> Stvr said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Waldo,
> ...


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## Wade E (Nov 21, 2006)

Hey Waldo, hows about " Port Not"


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## grapeman (Nov 21, 2006)

How about "The Black Currants of Hell" brewed by The Black Cat's Meow Winery.



Seriously Waldo, I'm sure this wine will turn out fine, It has just been one Hellish experience. I have some Black Currant on my wish list to start some soon.


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## Country Vines (Nov 22, 2006)

Waldo, this still just sounds so good. So, at this point how would you adjust the recipe? If we use your recipe, delete dried chips and use how much fresh bananas? 







In one of the other topics, someone asked about using panty hose for strainer bags. I acknowledged using knee-high hose (yes, new ones) and they are excellent for use with bananas. They allow the banana to puree so you get the body and texture you want, but the clean up is a breeze - squeeze out everything that will squeeze out and then toss it.


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## Waldo (Nov 22, 2006)

Country Vines said:


> Waldo, this still just sounds so good. So, at this point how would you adjust the recipe? If we use your recipe, delete dried chips and use how much fresh bananas?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Country I believe 1 lb of dried bananas is equal to 4-5 medium sized whole bananas but I am going to do my next batch, hopefully this weekend with more dried bananas that I bought on e-bay. They are a red, organic that are 100% pure with nothing added. 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&amp;viewitem=&amp;item=4399342790&amp;rd=1&amp;rd=1*Edited by: Waldo *


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## Waldo (Nov 22, 2006)

Stvr said:


> Waldo said:
> 
> 
> > Stvr said:
> ...


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## Waldo (Nov 29, 2006)

I racked and stabilized the wine this morning at an ending SG of 1.000 and it has remarkable characteristics of a Shiraz in both aroma and taste so it may turn out to be ok after all. It was loaded with gas and foamed liked mad when I degassed it. Was just glad Momma was sound asleep and did not see the mess before I got it all cleaned up


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## Wade E (Nov 29, 2006)

The Black Currant is a foamer, it must be in its characteristics.


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## Waldo (Nov 29, 2006)

How long did you have to stir to degass yours wade? I know I stirred this batch over 6 minutes total time.


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## Wade E (Nov 29, 2006)

Until my arm fell off, then I stir it with my other hand!


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