# Marbles, Are these OK?



## FABulousWines (Jun 17, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UJC8JC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

There seems to be at least 4 schools of thought concerning air space in the carboy:
1) Add water
2) Add wine, commercial or from another batch
3) Add marbles or something similar to take up space
4) Rack down to smaller vessels

I've done 1) with the Tropical Riesling. A mistake IMO, because that kit is pretty weak to start with. For the Malbec I did 2) with a commercial wine. It is OK, but the purist in me would rather not blend wines unless that is the intention from the start. I have considered 4) but I am not real fond of keeping track of multiple smaller vessels. So I am considering using the marbles on my next kit. Are these aquarium type marbles OK to use with wine?


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jun 17, 2013)

Are they made overseas, think lead and cadmium. One more thing to add to your top up list is a similar alcohol/acid mix, if your finished product is going to be 12% alcohol, make a 12% solution of etoh, if your TA is .65% add acid blend to equal that level, this way you are not diluting the alcohol or acid levels like if you just add water, and you are not poisoning yourself with cadmium and lead with marbles and can still think of it as "pure" from the original ingredients standpoint.

WVMJ


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## GEM (Jun 17, 2013)

You can also get marbles at your local wine making store. they are used all the time to top-up and don't add to the dilution of the wine. I am not sure about the cadmium and lead as WMMountianeerJack indicated, but you might check them out. A number of publications suggest topping-up with marbles.


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## jamesngalveston (Jun 17, 2013)

I am a seasoned pro of 2 months...I could not buy marbles where I live.
I used some 1/2 pvc pipe cut in various lengths, filled with silica sand, and capped..... you can make then as long are short as needed...sometimes the carboy got too full....i just sample the too much.


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## FABulousWines (Jun 17, 2013)

I can't tell much from the online ad. All I can infer is that they are safe for aquarium use. I just check with my LHBS and they don't carry marbles; they are in the "rack down" camp and just want to sell me a 5 gal carboy which I may do at some point.

So let me turn the question around. For those of you who are using marbles, where is a good place to purchase?


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## FABulousWines (Jun 17, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> I am a seasoned pro of 2 months...I could not buy marbles where I live.
> I used some 1/2 pvc pipe cut in various lengths, filled with silica sand, and capped..... you can make then as long are short as needed...sometimes the carboy got too full....i just sample the too much.



James, that is an interesting idea.


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## Chiumanfu (Jun 17, 2013)

I got glass gems from the dollar store and tested them with a lead test kit.

Google "leadinspector".


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## FABulousWines (Jun 18, 2013)

I found this link. According to their FAQ they are lead free and otherwise nontoxic. I reckon 1000 marbles ought to tide me over for a bit, LOL.

Ice Clear Crystal Accent Marbles, 12mm, Bulk Bag


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## ibglowin (Jun 18, 2013)

Anyone else noticing quite a few post disappearing from this thread?


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## FABulousWines (Jun 18, 2013)

I did notice that; so maybe I am not going crazy?


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## Julie (Jun 18, 2013)

FABulousWines said:


> I did notice that; so maybe I am not going crazy?


 
Well you maybe crazy  but Txbrew was changing servers and lost a few posts. I'm thinking it was his evil way of seeing if anyone was paying attention!


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## FABulousWines (Jun 18, 2013)

Well, for completeness, and to show that I haven't completely lost my mind, somebody (sorry I can't remember who, I may not be crazy, but I do have CRS) posted the following link as another safe source:

Glass Marbles For Topping Up - 3 lbs


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## saramc (Jun 18, 2013)

I know MarbleKing USA carries lead free glass marbles. They can actually talk to you about any marbles they carry.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks Sara, they are right across the state from us. WVMJ


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## jamesngalveston (Jun 18, 2013)

I noticed it also...


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## dburling (Jun 18, 2013)

FABulousWines said:


> Well, for completeness, and to show that I haven't completely lost my mind, somebody (sorry I can't remember who, I may not be crazy, but I do have CRS) posted the following link as another safe source:
> 
> Glass Marbles For Topping Up - 3 lbs



CRS... Haven't heard that in a while. I suffer from the same disease!

On another point, those that use marbles to top up, can you explain any process you use on the next racking to ensure you don't lose too much wine?


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jun 19, 2013)

Its called void space, where there was once air is not marbles with wine in between them that has sediment in it so now they actually may have lot more than they planned on of their original wine instead of just topping off  I am using mine to weigh down spice bags not loosing wine to the dreaded void space. WVMJ


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## seth8530 (Jun 19, 2013)

I am going to buy me a bag of these marbles for my fermentation this fall!


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## FABulousWines (Jun 24, 2013)

FABulousWines said:


> I found this link. According to their FAQ they are lead free and otherwise nontoxic. I reckon 1000 marbles ought to tide me over for a bit, LOL.
> 
> Ice Clear Crystal Accent Marbles, 12mm, Bulk Bag



FYI, I was ready to pull the trigger on the above link until I saw where they wanted over $18 to ship and some sort of $1.99 additional charge (for what, I don't know).

I ended up going to eBay at the link below. They are Marble King and should be safe for wine.

1000 (APROX ) "MARBLE KING" 5/8 INCH MARBLES OVER 10.LBS 25.99

That is about the best bargain I could find, but if you do know of another source, please post. It may help someone else down the road.


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## montanarick (Feb 12, 2020)

Chiumanfu said:


> I got glass gems from the dollar store and tested them with a lead test kit.
> 
> Google "leadinspector".


Did your testing come up positive?


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## montanarick (Feb 12, 2020)

Has anyone actually had their wine tested for trace heavy metals after topping up carboys with marbles? After reading some of the threads here about marbles from China, I've developed a little concern. Couple of years back I purchased some clear (and not so clear) glass marbles from the Dollar Store and used them to top off a carboy of Zinfandel. Totally forgot about the marbles until after two years of bulk aging - now I'm concerned. Anyone have any additional thoughts on this?


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## sour_grapes (Feb 12, 2020)

Lead testing kits for, for example, drinking water are not expensive.


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## montanarick (Feb 12, 2020)

Yeah, I've been doing a search. These are basically colorametric kits and I've already had one manufacturer tell me that they would not be appropriate with red wine. Do you have a specific one that you've used successfully?


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## sour_grapes (Feb 12, 2020)

montanarick said:


> Yeah, I've been doing a search. These are basically colorametric kits and I've already had one manufacturer tell me that they would not be appropriate with red wine. Do you have a specific one that you've used successfully?



As it turns out, no. I bought a Pb test kit for my water, but have not used it yet. I didn't realize they were colorametric. I just looked at the instructions, and cannot hazard a guess whether it would work or not because the instructions are kinda like a cartoon.


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## montanarick (Feb 13, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> As it turns out, no. I bought a Pb test kit for my water, but have not used it yet. I didn't realize they were colorametric. I just looked at the instructions, and cannot hazard a guess whether it would work or not because the instructions are kinda like a cartoon.


Gotcha - thanks. BTW I just heard back from Chemsee.com that their GHM-01 test kit can be used with red wine - sample should be diluted in half first because of color interference.


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## stickman (Feb 13, 2020)

Although time consuming, another option might be to run a trial using a model wine solution. Mix vodka and water to 13% ABV then add citric acid to 3.5 pH, add the marbles and store for several months, then run the Pb test on the solution.


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## sremick (Mar 6, 2020)

After using marbles once and hearing them hit the bottom of the glass carboy, I've never used them again. Made me too nervous.

Especially since a couple nights ago I had my first carboy spontaneously fail (not the one I used marbles on, this one was new out of the box). Luckily the crack only caused a little seepage so the batch wasn't lost, but the bottom completely popped off when I then went to rinse it out.


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## stickman (Mar 6, 2020)

I've heard something similar from a few other people. Was this a locally purchased carboy? MFG country of origin?


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## mainshipfred (Mar 6, 2020)

sremick said:


> After using marbles once and hearing them hit the bottom of the glass carboy, I've never used them again. Made me too nervous.
> 
> Especially since a couple nights ago I had my first carboy spontaneously fail (not the one I used marbles on, this one was new out of the box). Luckily the crack only caused a little seepage so the batch wasn't lost, but the bottom completely popped off when I then went to rinse it out.



I once finished racking a wine and was putting the canes and tubes in the sink to wash when I heard a noise of some kind. After I cleaned the tubes and canes I grabbed the carboy by the neck to wash it and there was no bottom. The only one that broke on me so far.


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## stickman (Mar 6, 2020)

If the bottom falls out it has to be defective, I'm assuming these are not the carboys from Mexico or Italy. I have quite a few rather old carboys and many of these have visible defects, dimples, bubbles, and sand, but never has a bottom fallen out, haven't broken a carboy during the 30yrs I've been making wine.......OK now that I said that I'm sure I'll break one soon.


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## sremick (Mar 6, 2020)

stickman said:


> I've heard something similar from a few other people. Was this a locally purchased carboy? MFG country of origin?


Yeah it was bought local, but apparently nobody offers warranties on their carboys. I checked a couple places.

These apparently are from China. I think I'm going to cycle them all out and replace them with Italian. Too much at stake.


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## mainshipfred (Mar 6, 2020)

Hard to tell where mine came from, the vast majority of mine are bought used.


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## montanarick (Mar 8, 2020)

Primary reason I only use Better Bottle PET carboys


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## cuz (Mar 13, 2020)

I have used glass marbles in the past and have 6 carboys sitting with glass marbles in them. I never really thought about lead but my thinking is even if there is lead in the glass marbles they aren't going to decompose or chemically break down in the wine. However, after reading this post now I am a little freaked out. Are there any chemist out there that can tell all of us either_ not to worry_ or _ditch the marbles idea._


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## montanarick (Mar 13, 2020)

cuz said:


> I have used glass marbles in the past and have 6 carboys sitting with glass marbles in them. I never really thought about lead but my thinking is even if there is lead in the glass marbles they aren't going to decompose or chemically break down in the wine. However, after reading this post now I am a little freaked out. Are there any chemist out there that can tell all of us either_ not to worry_ or _ditch the marbles idea._


I had the same concern after leaving a batch of Zin bulk ageing for 26 months on marbles i had purchased from the Dollar Store. So i sent a sample to a test lab for analysis of lead, cadmium and antimony. The results were as follows: Antimony 0.002 mg/l (0.006); Cadmium not detected and Lead 0.013 mg/l (0.015). the numbers in () are limits for drinking water. So while there is some lead in the wine, which may be from natural sources as opposed to the marbles and since all the numbers are below safe drinking water standards (as provided by the lab to me) i feel pretty confident the the wine is okay to drink. I have subsequently purchased more marbles from morewinemaking.com even though the Dollar Store ones are probably okay - your call.


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## cuz (Mar 20, 2020)

Rick,

Thanks for the feedback. I would be curious as to what a controlled specimen of the wine would show, in other words a wine with no marbles. In my area of NY (Long Island) we typically don't trust safe drinking water standards. Most of us either drink bottled water or have a water filtering system.


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## sremick (Mar 20, 2020)

cuz said:


> In my area of NY (Long Island) we typically don't trust safe drinking water standards. Most of us either drink bottled water



https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyt...ed-water-than-tap-g-33331.html?pagewanted=all


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## montanarick (Mar 20, 2020)

cuz said:


> Rick,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I would be curious as to what a controlled specimen of the wine would show, in other words a wine with no marbles. In my area of NY (Long Island) we typically don't trust safe drinking water standards. Most of us either drink bottled water or have a water filtering system.


Unfortunately I have no control to test and this wasn't done as a scientific experiment. Only reason that I tested at all was because my wine had been bulk aging for over two years and I had completely forgotten about the marbles in the carboy until I did the final racking to bottle.


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