# Sourness in wine



## zapper (Nov 12, 2012)

Hello,

I am having a problem the last 2 years of the wines I make, 2 white and 3 red varieties, having a sour taste to them before bottling. I have also bottle a few with little removal of the sourness after time has gone by.

Is anyone else having sour problems or have suggestions? I get the same varieties from the same place each year with a couple brix of each other.

Thanks


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## Julie (Nov 12, 2012)

Hi zapper, welcome to winemakingtalk. Do you take any tests on your wine? And what types of wine do you have. I am wondering if you prefer sweet wines and you are not backsweetening these wines.


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## wyntheef (Nov 12, 2012)

sorry zapper, just not enough information to help you at this point. feel free to provide more and we will be glad to assist.


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## derunner (Nov 12, 2012)

Is any gas left in the wine? To me that tastes a bit sour as you take a sip. that is, it might start sweet and change to sour as I sip.

You might tell what wines you are making, your steps, how long you age before bottling and after bottling?


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## shoelesst (Nov 12, 2012)

The brix won't matter much but acid level will. It would be nice to have more info like the grape varieties and where the grapes come from.

Generally grapes from California that home winemakers get are from the southern part of the grape growing region and are low in acid. Do you add tartaric acid to balance acid and pH? If so, this could be an issue.

Let us know the source and variety and any additions you add to the wine and when.


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## zapper (Nov 13, 2012)

Hello all,

We make Cab, Cab Franc, Petite Sirah, and Petite Verdot from grapes bought in the Sierra foothills. The whites are Le Crescent and Frontenac Gris that we grown in our own vineyard in NV.

We bottle the whites pretty much right away and the reds the May after harvest. We let the whites sit for 6 months to a year and the reds for a year.

We add standard French oak chips to the reds after the second racking and let soak for 2-3 weeks.

I don't notice any gas left, but I do have a hard time getting the wines to be clear and there is always a residue on the red bottles after drinking.

Thanks and let me know what else.


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## wyntheef (Nov 13, 2012)

if your'e wines have not completely cleared, you may be getting sourness from the suspended solids.
more clearing is needed, whether you use clarifiers or not.


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## zapper (Nov 13, 2012)

Can I filter and what micron filter do you recommend for the wines?

Thanks


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## andrewjp (Nov 13, 2012)

It seems odd that your wines don't clear. I have never racked a wine (at least in the last 3 years) other than off gross lees 2 days after pressing, nor have ever I fined or filtered. I always have very clear wine after 6-12 months in barrel. Many ultra premium wineries never fine or filter and many rack only once, or never in some cases (like Saxum). You risk stripping flavor and texture by filtering with a filter fine enough to remove the very fine sediment that is probably making your wine cloudy.

Sourness is usually caused by too much acid (malic, more often than not) or, as derunner said, small CO2 bubbles in the wine post primary or during MLF. Do you put your wines through and comfirm completion of MLF? If you made a dry red wine from wines that a not hyper fruit forward, you can probably taste some serious acidicty in the 8 g/l range for titratable acidity (TA)...compounded if there is malic in there. I am not too familiar with Sierra Foothills wines other than Naggiar, as my fruit is from Paso Robles. Rarely is there too much acid in Cab, Merlot, Zin, Syrah, Tempranillo, PS, etc from this area. 

I think you should invest in a test kit to confirm your TA and S02 levels. Force it through malo ferm if you have not already. Just try to keep the wine around 65F or higher and free S02 around 10ppm (depending on the strain). A lot of people think temperature has a big impact on MLF but it is always dependent on the strain. I use Enoferm Alpha which will burn down to 57F, though it will complete faster if it is warmer (over 68 or so). If it is still too acidic, then you can adjust if needed after MLF by adding calcium carbonate or something like that. Just don't bottle for at least 3-4 months to give it time to work and sediment to settle. While I said I didn't rack, you may have to to remove more sediment. Tough to know for sure why it won't clear.

Anyways, I hope this helps and it's not a ton of information you already know.


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## winemaker_3352 (Nov 13, 2012)

I would check/adjust your TA/PH/SO2 levels as well.

You cannot filter a cloudy wine to make it clear - you will just damage the pump.

Only filter a clear wine to give it the pristine sparkle!!


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## joea132 (Nov 13, 2012)

Tart flavor is often a result of high acid as was said before. MLF will reduce acid like they said, but you can also back sweeten to help balance out the acid too. Just remember if you put wine through malo, you shouldn't use potassium sorbate or you can get a geranium smell that you can't fix. (although I've done it and never had the problem before)


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## zapper (Nov 14, 2012)

OK, never did the malo thing, how do I go about doing that?
What other ways are there to reduce acid?

Thanks


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## joea132 (Nov 14, 2012)

zapper said:


> OK, never did the malo thing, how do I go about doing that?
> What other ways are there to reduce acid?
> 
> Thanks



Get yourself a malolactic culture and some opti malo plus. I suggest VP41 because of its ability to work in acidic conditions. It is pricey but other cultures might not work. It may behoove you to test at least your pH as it can inhibit mlf. 

Your other options are cold stabilizing, potassium bicarbonate, blending, sodium bicarbonate, or back sweetening like I said before. With bicarbonate you instantly drop acidity but you lose a bit of flavor too in my opinion. Cold stabilizing drops tartaric acid very efficiently if you can manage to keep your wine at a constant low temperature for long enough. 

If you detect a "green apple" flavor it is malic acid and you'll need to mlf to get it down.


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## Wiz (Nov 15, 2012)

It's my undrstanding that one should not try a MLF with fruit wines or grape concentrates.


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