# Remedy for over sweetened wine?



## Rocky (Nov 15, 2011)

I am 99% sure I know the answer to this, but I will ask anyway: Does anyone have a way to reduce the sweetness of a wine that has been stabilized and is too sweet for my taste, other than blending with a dryer wine?

I have two wines that are in this condition and it would take a lot of blending wine to correct the problems. 

Thanks, as always, for your help.


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## jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Other ideas:

Give it away
Raise the acidity to reduce the perceived sweetness


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 15, 2011)

What type of wines are they ?
I have made some excessive sweet fruit wines - served it warm over ice to help water it down - everyone enjoyed it

steve


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## cpfan (Nov 15, 2011)

Ropcky...

care to tell us what these wines are?

Steve


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## Stefani (Nov 15, 2011)

cpfan said:


> Ropcky...
> 
> care to tell us what these wines are?
> 
> Steve



I would rather like to know where these wines are?


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## Rocky (Nov 16, 2011)

Okay, Guys and Gals, I am going to come clean on this whole thing. I sometimes wonder how I got this far in life! 

The first wine started out as a 4 gallon batch of Moscato. It was doing very well and I got the bright idea to add a background flavor to it and I chose apricot. I added a can (49 oz.) of puree and this made it very sweet. I thought I could get the fermentation started again but could not. The wine now has an SG of about 1.020. It tastes really good, but is too sweet. I made up a 6 gallon batch of Muscat and have fermented it to an SG of 0.995. My plan is to blend either all or part of the Muscat with the Apricot-Moscato. If I do all, the SG or the "new wine" will still be just under 1.010. If I do about half of it, the SG of the new wine will be about 1.003 or so. I could then keep the rest of the Moscato for a nice dessert wine.

The second wine is a little more complicated. I had a 6 gallon bucket of what I bought as "Zinfandel" but was in fact "White Zinfandel." Before I realized the mistake I blended this prior to fermentation with 2 gallons (from the 6 gallon bucket used above) of Muscat juice. The color was too light for me so I added red grape concentrate and also added a bag of grape skins (Cabernet Sauvignon). Well, the color is nice but the wine is really too sweet. I have made two batches of Old Vine Zinfandel, intending to blend them with the "other wine" (which has been sorbated) but now I really like the OVZ and I am reluctant to put "good money after bad" and waste them on a blend. The OVZ's are both about SG 0.992.

That is why I am looking for another way to go. Thanks for your interest and help.


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## JohnT (Nov 16, 2011)

I would airate and then try to kick off another fermentation using Lalvin EC1118.


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## Arne (Nov 16, 2011)

If you decide to blend, try some small samples before you do the whole batch. Make sure you are going to like what results before you blend everything. Arne.


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## UglyBhamGuy (Nov 16, 2011)

+1 on mixing small amounts at first.
keep track of ratios of each wine that will make mixing the "final" larger batch easier.


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## robie (Nov 16, 2011)

JohnT said:


> I would airate and then try to kick off another fermentation using Lalvin EC1118.




I agree. If you didn't add sorbate, you should be able to get another fermentation started, if you use a yeast starter and slowly add your high alcohol wine to it over 4 to 8 hours. (Very slowly!)

A good yeast like EC-1118 (use 2 packets) should do it. With that much sugar present, no reason why it won't, unless you added sorbate. Keep the wine stirred well and give it some oxygen until it gets started.

Another alternative has already been mentioned about adjusting the acid level. If the wine is that sweet it is likely also out of balance. By adding some acid to a sample glass and taste testing, you might get the wine where you like it.


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## Rocky (Nov 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the great info. 

*Arne and UBG*, I have tried a 2 Zin to 1 "Chi cazzo sa" (which is what I call the "other wine") and it was good. The problem I have is I like it better than the sweet wine and not as much as the dry Zinfandel. So my issue is do I make 19 gallons of a wine that is "okay," using up 6 gallons of a wine that I don't like and 13 gallons of a wine that I really like? 

*Robie*, my problem is that I have added k-sorbate to all of the wine in question. The conventional wisdom is that you cannot re-start fermentation once k-meta is added, but (and I need to check my notes on this) I think that I did this once with a cherry wine.

I am wondering if I took a small amount of the "good wines," added sugar and got a strong fermentation going and slowly added the sweet wine (with the sorbate in it) to the vigorously working yeast, could this work? 

The real question I have, and I am afraid the answer is "no", is can the effect of k-sorbate be cancelled with the addition of something or by working with the wine, e.g. aerating, splash racking, heating, cooling, etc? I know that I am grasping at straws here. 

*Edited (Thanks, Flem)*


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## Flem (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi Rocky. You first said k-sorbate and then later said k-meta. Did you mean to say k-sorbate then too? I don't have an answer, I'm just trying to clarify for others. Mike


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## robie (Nov 16, 2011)

Kmeta stuns the yeast, but does not necessarily kill them. Sorbate will render any yeast incapable of multiplying.
I would not expect fermentation to restart after adding sorbate. You need to look for another alternative.


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## Rocky (Nov 16, 2011)

Yeah, Robie, I am beginning to think you are right. I think blending is the only way and as sweet as this wine is, it will take a heck of a lot of dry wine to cut it.


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## SBWs (Nov 16, 2011)

Rocky, I tried adding acid to a sweet wine once to lower the sweetness and it didn't work for me. Ended up with a sweet wine that went bitter to the taste. But, that's not saying it won't work. Have you thought about adding some brandy and making the Apricot-Moscato a port style wine. The higher alcohol may cover some of the sweetness and port style wines are normally made sweeter.


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## Rocky (Nov 16, 2011)

"Have you thought about adding some brandy and making the Apricot-Moscato a port style wine."

Hey, now, SBWs, that is a heck of a good idea! I will do some research and bench testing and do the Port thing on both of them. Thank you!


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## Runningwolf (Nov 16, 2011)

Rocky, I am trying to think of something other then blending and the only other thing I can think of is use it for topping up and cooking. 

Is this wine ony too sweet by your standards? I bet you have plenty of friends that just might love it just the way it is. I'm interested in knowing the final outcome of this delema.


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## mmadmikes1 (Nov 17, 2011)

JohnT said:


> I would airate and then try to kick off another fermentation using Lalvin EC1118.


Get a good starter going and add a little at a time, until you get the whole batch back in fermenter. Itr will work it you are patent and do add to much at the start. Also9 when it is finished you will not need to add sorbate it is still there from before. If you add more it will mess the wine up


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## Rocky (Nov 17, 2011)

Runningwolf said:


> Rocky, I am trying to think of something other then blending and the only other thing I can think of is use it for topping up and cooking.
> 
> Is this wine ony too sweet by your standards? I bet you have plenty of friends that just might love it just the way it is. I'm interested in knowing the final outcome of this delema.



Dan, I guess I like dry wine and I don't like sweet wine. You make a very good point that some people may like it. I have about 8 gallons in carboys which will net about 7.5 gallons after the final racking. I will bottle some sweet, try some brandy, try some blending and make some vinegar. Topping of and cooking are great ideas too. Thanks.


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## cpfan (Nov 17, 2011)

Rocky said:


> I am 99% sure I know the answer to this, but I will ask anyway: Does anyone have a way to reduce the sweetness of a wine that has been stabilized and is too sweet for my taste, other than blending with a dryer wine?
> 
> I have two wines that are in this condition and it would take a lot of blending wine to correct the problems.
> 
> Thanks, as always, for your help.


Just because a wine has been sorbated doesn't mean that it will never ferment again. There needs to be sufficient sorbate in the wine for the volume. So what would happen if you added 1 part of your sorbated wine to 2 (or 3 or 4) parts of currently fermenting similar wine? This may qualify as "a lot of blending wine", but hopefully it would ferment out some of the sugars.

Unfortunately, I have no idea if this will actually work, so could be throwing good money after bad.

Steve


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## robie (Nov 17, 2011)

cpfan said:


> Just because a wine has been sorbated doesn't mean that it will never ferment again. There needs to be sufficient sorbate in the wine for the volume. So what would happen if you added 1 part of your sorbated wine to 2 (or 3 or 4) parts of currently fermenting similar wine? This may qualify as "a lot of blending wine", but hopefully it would ferment out some of the sugars.
> 
> Unfortunately, I have no idea if this will actually work, so could be throwing good money after bad.
> 
> Steve



I am kind of thinking out loud, here...

One could try this after blending, as long as sorbate is not added to the other batch. However, it still would have some affect. Even a little would do its number on the yeast with which it comes into contact. Sorbate is not like free SO2, which gets bound up. The sorbate will always be there, even though in a smaller relative amount. Maybe I am wrong, "just" maybe it does actually get absorbed by the yeast, but I can't really say. IBGOWIN might could tell us for sure.

Maybe make a yeast starter with 5 or 6 packets of yeast; Just guessing, I would give it less than a 50/50 chance, perhaps. 

And again, even if the yeast don't multiply, maybe with that amount of packets, it might eventually ferment dry. 

Wouldn't cost much to try.


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## cpfan (Nov 17, 2011)

Robie:

I am suggesting starting another batch, and adding the sorbated wine while the yeast is still actively fermenting in the new batch.

Steve


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## robie (Nov 18, 2011)

cpfan said:


> Robie:
> 
> I am suggesting starting another batch, and adding the sorbated wine while the yeast is still actively fermenting in the new batch.
> 
> Steve



That way there would be lots and lots of yeast available. That is a better idea than I assumed, which was to add the must to the sorbated wine, then try to start a fermentation... Duh!
That just might work. Hope Rocky will let us know how it goes.

I know how to remove sugar from gasoline but not from wine. I'll bet there is a way to remove it from wine, but we just don't know it.


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## Rocky (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks for the post, Guys. I currenly have about 1200 ml in a 2000 ml flask to which I have added a starter of EC-1118 and some yeast nutrient. There are some minimal signs of fermentation (very small bubbles coming to the surface of the wine and the air lock is bubbling about 15 times per minute. I also set this flask in a basin of water (about 100 F) just long enough to warm it up and to get things going. The remainder of the wine is in two carboys (3 and 5 gallon) under airlock.


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## Auburn-Bob (Nov 19, 2011)

If you have determined the wine is garbage in its current state, there is an experiment you could try. ( Keep in mind, this is strictly a desperation play. ) 

Take half a gallon, no lees, put it in a pot, put it on the stove and boil it. Boil it down about three quarters of an inch. This should drive of some of the alcohol and destroy the K-meta. I'm not sure about the sorbate, nor do I know how the flavor will be affected. After it cools, add back the lost volume with water, add a pinch of nutrient and a pinch of your yeast. See if the fermentation starts. Good luck. I hope everything works out.


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