# To cover or not to cover?



## Leela (Jun 11, 2018)

What are people's thoughts/opinions on covering the primary fermentation bucket during week 1 versus allowing the must to breath (lightly covered or covered with a towel)? I'm getting a lot of mixed directions online. I just mixed all ingredients (minus the yeast) yesterday and it's half covered now, with a clean towel on top. Tonight I will add the yeast, but it's then I don't know whether to leave slightly uncovered or to cover and airlock it.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 11, 2018)

Towel covered. Or you wont stir near enough. 
This is asked often most folks go open primary.


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## bkisel (Jun 11, 2018)

IMHO if you don't need to stir it doesn't make a dimes worth of difference whether you cover (i.e. airlock) or not so long as you gave the must a good stir/mixing before pitching the yeast. If not airlocked you'd of course want some sort of cover to keep fruit flies and such out of the must.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 11, 2018)

Cloth cover tied down until racked to Carboy when SG is below 1.020


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## NorCal (Jun 11, 2018)

I open top ferment my reds and ferment my whites under airlock. Not sure it makes much of a difference, but I see my white wines as fragile and more susceptible to oxidation, so I try to minimize that from the very beginning.


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## pillswoj (Jun 11, 2018)

Loosely cover my reds (plastic sheet), whites under airlock


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## Scooter68 (Jun 11, 2018)

Norcal I would not sweat oxidation of an active ferment but loss of aromatics perhaps, but I understand. I try to keep temps down when fermenting my "White" fruit wines.


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## Venatorscribe (Jun 11, 2018)

I don't want little bugs and flys mixing in or drinking my nectar. Always cover and mostly airlocked


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## Scooter68 (Jun 11, 2018)

An intoxicated Fly is _EXTREMELY_ annoying.


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## Chilkat (Jun 11, 2018)

Thank you for putting this up here. I been trying to figure this out. It would save me the trouble with the air lock with my wine next time. I had a tough time with the airlock being bombed out.


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## REDRUM (Jun 11, 2018)

Loose cover while it's foaming strongly and you're getting the intense CO2 fermentation smell. Once the bubbling dies down enough (so there's no chance of overflow) you can seal the lid & airlock. When it's stable enough rack into secondary with airlock.
This is one of those things that I wouldn't attach to a specific timeframe or hydrometer reading. When you can't smell the fermentation gases strongly any more & it just smells like a 'still' wine, that's when it should definitely be under airlock in a narrow-neck container to avoid oxidation.
That's my totally unscientific approach, keen to know if there's a better method for determining the right time to close it away!


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## PandemoniumWines (Jun 11, 2018)

I secure muslin with a rubber band, and typically ferment to dry in the bucket. But then, I’m not making anything fancy.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 12, 2018)

Keep in mind that the typical bucket lids do NOT really seal. What I mean by that is that time and time again posters on here ask what is going on with their fermentation - They have the bucket lid 'snapped down and sealed' but the airlock isn't bubbling at all or very very slowly. Been there done, that. I tried a trick of wetting down the seal in the lid then snapping it on. Voila - Bubbles in the airlock.... until that moisture on the seal dries up and the bubble stop. 

So the moral is that bucket lids really don't provide an airtight seal. IF you want that - rack to a carboy and use a bung and airlock. In an active fermentation it's not a big deal except that normal indications of a bubbling airlock may not occur, leading a person to think the fermentation hasn't started or that it has already finished. ALWAYS rely on the hydrometer for the final word about a fermentation.

Personally I gave up on bucket lids and use a cord tied around the rim of the bucket to keep the muslin cloth tight. When the SG reading is below 1.020 and activity appears to have ceased - THEN I rack to carboy. _Also watch your sample when doing the SG readings. IF that sample foams up in the tube - imagine what will happen if you rack it all into a carboy - Foam Fountain !!_! So I use the SG reading and watch the behavior of the must in the testing tube.


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## balatonwine (Jun 12, 2018)

Okay. I admit it. My brain does seem to work differently than most people. So I admit I am confused by your question.

You use "cover" in both options:

_"*covering* the primary fermentation bucket during week 1 versus allowing the must to breath (lightly *covered* or *covered* with a towel)?"_

So I can't vote, since the question to me still is unclear what you mean by "cover".

As an explanation: Do I think one should cover the grapes during week 1? Yes. With a cloth. Keeps out the fruit flies for one thing.But that is just one type and definition of "cover" isn't it? But I get the impression by "cover" you actually mean "seal and airlock", in which case I would say no. The CO2 coming off the first 2/3 of fermentation (measured by sugar amount) is enough to keep O2 off the wine until those periods when you do want some O2 -- when you punch down the cap or if you pump and mix.


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## Leela (Jun 12, 2018)

balatonwine said:


> Okay. I admit it. My brain does seem to work differently than most people. So I admit I am confused by your question.
> 
> You use "cover" in both options:
> 
> ...





sure, maybe the poll question could be reworded, but I thought I was clear when I said, "I don't know whether to leave slightly uncovered or to cover and airlock it."


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## Johnd (Jun 12, 2018)

Leela said:


> sure, maybe the poll question could be reworded, but I thought I was clear when I said, "I don't know whether to leave slightly uncovered or to cover and airlock it."



It was a bit confusing because of the wording, but your explanation provided some clarity. My two cents:

I believe all would agree that your must should be covered with something to prevent unwanted things from getting into an open container, for any color wine. The question is whether to cover it with something that prevents unwanted visitors and allow it to breathe, or whether it should be sealed and airlocked. My whites are fermented slow in a cool environment, in sealed containers with airlocks from start to finish. Reds are in fermenters with a loose lid or towel over them until near 1.000 when they go into glass carboys.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 12, 2018)

Leela said:


> sure, maybe the poll question could be reworded, but I thought I was clear when I said, "I don't know whether to leave slightly uncovered or to cover and airlock it."



Don’t sweat it. That’s just Balatonwine being Balatonwine. Lol. He tends to see things just ‘slightly different’ than the average person on occasion . But the man knows his chit. 
And I agree. I actually never even heard of-
or knew it was possible- to put a primary under airlock for years. Always a loose lid or towel. 
I’ll never forget the first time I bought a kit on a whim and looked at the instructions. Airlock on bucket? potassium sorbate? - degassing? I thought “what the hell did I get myself into here ?” 
But so many people 1st get into winemaking with kits— so I can see why they feel more comfortable with it under airlock. But kits can also give new winemakers an unhealthy fear of oxygen- — and no doubt kits breed impatience.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 12, 2018)

Kit wines are bit like the pre-hung doors they sell at Home Improvement stores. While there is some work to be done before that door is properly installed, the ugly hard stuff is already done for you. 

Having never made a kit wine... it just doesn't seem that interesting to me, like paint by the numbers. You get a wine and perhaps a very very nice wine, when it's done but it's just not the same to me as doing it from scratch.

And as Ajmassa said, it breeds one the biggest enemies of wine making - impatience.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 12, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> Kit wines are bit like the pre-hung doors they sell at Home Improvement stores. While there is some work to be done before that door is properly installed, the ugly hard stuff is already done for you.
> 
> Having never made a kit wine... it just doesn't seem that interesting to me, like paint by the numbers. You get a wine and perhaps a very very nice wine, when it's done but it's just not the same to me as doing it from scratch.
> 
> And as Ajmassa said, it breeds one the biggest enemies of wine making - impatience.



Just different strokes. I don’t knock kits at all- I’ve done 5. A winemaker can screw one up just as one can make something exceptional from the same kit. And I can see how appealing they could be if space/funds/interest or any means are an issue. You know what would be cool for a kit winemaker? To simply toss the instructions without reading at all to spice things up. Look at @joeswine tweaks for instance. He’s having some fun over there! (On topic- joeswine tweaks always with a towel over the fermentor)
But there is definitely something satisfying about “from scratch”. Tho that term is endless to me. Making wine from actual fresh grape juice with no instructions. Or making wine from fresh/frozen must with all the skins and pressing. Or buying whole grapes to crush yourself (my current personal fav). And finally,- to growing your own grapes *or fruit scooter*. I’m sure it doesn’t end there either.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 12, 2018)

Nope it doesn't end there. Kits are a way to start in the hobby or to explore options for some and something to dabble in perhaps. I'm a fruit wine guy though. I figure there are so many commercial grape based wines out there, I can buy one if I'm interested. BUT fruit wines, good luck finding REAL fruit wines. 

I even hate having to buy any 'canned' juices but for some fruit I can't source it locally or grow it myself. Today I opened a can of Vintner's Harvest Plum wine base - bought it because this year the freeze once again wiped out any chances of a plum harvest from our trees. (And I LOVE plum wine.) BUT I am going to add some fresh Plums from Sam's Club to the batch, just to increase body a bit. 

As for Recipes - I use them to figure out what fruits need what additives like tannin. Right now the recipe I looked at for this plum wine doesn't list any tannin and the must seems like it might benefit from it. Will give that some thought before I pitch yeast tomorrow afternoon.


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## meadmaker1 (Jun 12, 2018)

I m with you on the fruit and buying juice thing. My plum source swears he has more plums than I want, for free. But elder berries. OMG they are tiny and they are ripe when it's Soooo hot, i can find plenty wild but I'm planning on buying juice and sprucing it up with some fresh.
I'm sure ill come up with a plan, call it a recipe if you like but it start in a bucket with a towel for a lid.


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## bstnh1 (Jun 13, 2018)

With the bucket, I lay the cover on top loosely. With the Fermonster, I cover the top with a piece of cheesecloth. I was putting them under airlock for secondary after 6 days, but with the new Winexpert 14 day fermentation instructions, I leave them w/o airlock for about 10 days and then put them under airlock. I don't trust it being left open for the full 14 days.


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## Scooter68 (Jun 13, 2018)

meadmaker1 said:


> I m with you on the fruit and buying juice thing. My plum source swears he has more plums than I want, for free. But elder berries. OMG they are tiny and they are ripe when it's Soooo hot, i can find plenty wild but I'm planning on buying juice and sprucing it up with some fresh.
> I'm sure ill come up with a plan, call it a recipe if you like but it start in a bucket with a towel for a lid.




From several postings a year or two ago it seems that elderberry is one on the strongest flavored fruits/berries with some folks reporting making a great elderberry wine with just a couple of pounds. Don't know how much truth there is to that but I imagine that picking even 2-3 lbs would be quite a task, in the heat.

At the risk of totally highjacking this thread, it looks like another year without enough Black Raspberries for a batch of wine. 4 1/2 - 5 lbs of wild black raspberries makes a stout wine.


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## Leela (Jun 13, 2018)

thanks everyone for all the information!


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