# Very bad Starch Haze



## bluebloodtea (Nov 18, 2010)

Hi Everyone, I hope someone can help me!

I'm a newbie, and I sorta jumped into wine-making way over my head. I'll give you the background:

I started learning about winemaking online when fresh, unpreserved cider became available at my farmer's market, and someone told me that it can be turned into alcohol quite easily. Well, I started a couple batches after getting some recipes on the internet, and became very excited by the process! (I still am).

A couple weeks after this, I was telling a friend about my fermentation adventures, and he suggested we get apples from his dad's apple tree and turn them into wine. Sounded great to me! Free fruit = nearly free wine!

I now have plenty of apple wine fermenting happily away, but have since learned of the right way to process apples for wine-making. I processed them the wrong way (here's where we can cringe): I cut the apples, boiled them for a while, and blended them in the boil with my trusty hand blender. I now know that this creates a very murky (readpaque) must that will not clear. So I did some reading online, and thought that the cure would be pectic enzyme. I treated my fermenting must to about 5 TBs of it, and parts of it cleared, but most of it didn't. I also have visible solids floating around in there too.

Upon further research, I found out that boiling the apples released a lot of starch into the must. Now for the question, will Amylase clear a very, _very_ cloudy wine? Will it break down the visible solids floating around that don't seem to want to settle out? Do I have any chance of clearing this wine, or is it doomed to cloudiness forever? How much amylase is safe to use?

Thanks for any help and/or advice. Ahh...the learning process...


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## St Allie (Nov 18, 2010)

Hello and welcome to the forum,

What you have is a fermenting must, adding pectic enzyme will be the right choice once it finishes, as pectic enzyme will not work effectively in the presence of an active yeast fermentation, which is why nothing really happened when you added the 5 tablespoons mid ferment..( amylase deals with starch hazes, so no point adding it to your apple wine.)

You may find that once it finishes it will mostly clear on its own anyway. time will tell.

So let it finish fermenting, a lot of the sediment and floating stuff will drop to the bottom of the carboy, rack it off the sediment, top up with a white wine or water, then add the pectic enzyme.. in 12 to 24 hours you should see a marked difference.. then move to clearing stages/ sulphite and sorbate/ backsweetening etc.. if you need a hand with anything just give us a heads up.. there's usually someone online here to point you in the right direction.

Allie


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## bluebloodtea (Nov 18, 2010)

Okay, Thanks Allie!

I guess I need more patience, which is one of the things I wanted to work on by undertaking this hobby. 

I was just worried because when I put the must into the primary (I used a 23 L carboy) it took about 4 hours. It had the consistency of applesauce. I went online immediately and read in a couple of places (and have since read in others) not to boil apples for making wine, because you'll have problems clearing. Also, it's been fermenting in primary for 3 weeks (I'm racking tomorrow - I didn't give it much room in the carboy and it's kind of cool in my basement) and there has been very little settling.

But I'll worry about clearing it later.

Thanks again!


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## Wade E (Nov 18, 2010)

Is this done fermenting? What is the sg start and right now? What size batch is this also?


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## bluebloodtea (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi Wade,

Sorry for not getting back to you, I was on vacation with no internet access.

As an update, I racked/strained to secondary and there was a lot of particles that came out in the strainer. I topped up with some unpreserved apple juice, and it is going well through the secondary fermentation as we speak. I looked at it last night (I have a blanket wrapped around the clear glass carboy to prevent light exposure) and it is clearing well, so I may have been worrying for nothing. I don't think it will end up crystal clear, but only time and fining will tell!

As far as SG goes, I didn't record it. At the time I started fermentation, I didn't own a hydrometer, and the must was so thick with suspended particles that I'm not sure I could have taken an accurate SG reading. Also, I definitely jumped into the wine-making process head first, without gauging the depth! 

I am still interested in Amylase and Amylozyme 100 and the process for using it. Jack Keller says these treatments can take place at room temperature, but I've read elsewhere that the liquor should be heated in order to get the enzyme working (along the lines of mashing malt in the beer making process). Obviously I wouldn't want to heat my wine and risk losing the precious alcohol! Does anyone have further information on starch clearing treatments?


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## bluebloodtea (Nov 25, 2010)

Oh yeah, it's a 23 L batch.


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## Wade E (Nov 25, 2010)

Is this still fermenting? If so it really wont clear until fermentation is done and the wine is degassed.


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## St Allie (Nov 28, 2010)

bluebloodtea said:


> I am still interested in Amylase and Amylozyme 100 and the process for using it. Jack Keller says these treatments can take place at room temperature, but I've read elsewhere that the liquor should be heated in order to get the enzyme working (along the lines of mashing malt in the beer making process). Obviously I wouldn't want to heat my wine and risk losing the precious alcohol! Does anyone have further information on starch clearing treatments?



OK amylase is all we can buy here in NZ, so I can only comment on that product..

It has a shelf life of 6 months, so usually you have to order it in especially.. and it must be kept refrigerated or it is rendered useless.

Add it after the fermentation is complete.. it may take more than one application to clear the wine.

Are you thinking of making a number of root vegetable wines?

Allie


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## bluebloodtea (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi Wade,

Yes it's still fermenting, and slowly clearing. I guess waiting until fermentation is over is probably the best idea. I probably got unnecessarily worried because of the amount of apple chunks and things floating around during the primary fermentation. Most of this was strained out when I racked it. It's still very hazy, but definitely showing signs of clearing.

Also, I have a friend that suggested I cool it a little after fermentation is complete in order to help it clear. This has worked for ciders I've made. I just move the fermentor into my basement, which stays between 10 and 12 C. So once the secondary fermentation is over, I'll rack it again and move it to the basement. Would that be a good time to degas it?

Hi Allie, thanks for the info on Amylase. Yes, I'd like to try a sweet potato wine, but at the moment I've got plenty going, so it won't be for a while! It's my understanding that for root veggie wines, amylase could come in handy?

Also, I bought a couple of wine kits from my local supply store (sterile merlot must - not from concentrate!) and they came with a packet of chitosan for fining. Has anyone used this? What are your thoughts on it?


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## winemaker_3352 (Nov 29, 2010)

You will have a hard time degassing at that temp in the bsmt. Degassing works better around 75 degrees. I would degass it before you move it to the bsmt.

As long as fermentation is going and you have not degassed you could see solid particles floating in suspension due to the CO2 in the wine.


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## Brian (Nov 29, 2010)

bluebloodtea said:


> Also, I bought a couple of wine kits from my local supply store (sterile merlot must - not from concentrate!) and they came with a packet of chitosan for fining. Has anyone used this? What are your thoughts on it?



Yes I have used Chitosan a couple of times with red wine kits and it worked great. Pretty quick.. Good luck!


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