# Do you worry about bottle shape?



## sour_grapes (Sep 23, 2017)

I generally strive to use the same shape of bottle that would traditionally be used for a given grape variety. I.e., I put Cabs and Merlots into Bordeaux-style bottles, and Chards, Viogniers, and Pinots into Burgundy style bottles. I fudge it with Italian varieties.

However, I must admit that I do not like (for practical reasons) Burgundy bottles. First of all, they stack poorly in my experience (sometimes trying to make a "leap to their death" from the rack.) Secondly, because I mostly drink Bordeaux varieties, I optimized my wine rack for Bordeaux bottles. Third, I don't have as ready a supply of Burgundy bottles, because I don't drink so much of it!

Okay, so I am going to make Syrah this year from grapes. I expect to net north of 60 bottles. I am trying to decide whether or not I will be a purist and insist on using Rhone/Burgundy bottles. (I don't distinguish between those -- I am certainly not _that_ much of a purist!)

I am curious what you fellow winemakers do -- be "authentic" or "pragmatic"?


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## meadmaker1 (Sep 23, 2017)

My favorite type of bottle is free. 
Secnond choice is cheap.
Lol may or may not be funny but it true.


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## Smok1 (Sep 23, 2017)

I prefer the burgundy bottles but i do agree the bordeax bottles stack better. Also i have an easy local supply of the standard bottles, i need to order and pay for shipping for the burgundy bottles.


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## AZMDTed (Sep 23, 2017)

Pragmatic.


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## ibglowin (Sep 23, 2017)

I have plenty of whatever I need since I have a storage shed of empty recycled bottles. It's fun to have them in the correct bottle if you can round them up. Start drinking more wine out of Burgundy bottles! You have time LOL Have friends save them for you. Lots of ways to find them if you want them bad enough. IIRC you have one (or two) of the Seville racks for storage? The Burgundy bottles stack nicely and securely if you add a layer of the (thin) rubber matting between rows.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 23, 2017)

Smok1 said:


> I prefer the bordeux bottles but i do agree the standard bottles stack better. Also i have an easy local supply of the standard bottles, i need to order and pay for shipping for the bordeux bottles.



Umm, I kinda think of Bordeaux bottles as "standard." Bordeaux are the ones with straight sides:


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## sour_grapes (Sep 23, 2017)

ibglowin said:


> I have plenty of whatever I need since I have a storage shed of empty recycled bottles. It's fun to have them in the correct bottle if you can round them up. Start drinking more wine out of Burgundy bottles! You have time LOL Have friends save them for you. Lots of ways to find them if you want them bad enough. IIRC you have one (or two) of the Seville racks for storage? The Burgundy bottles stack nicely and securely if you add a layer of the (thin) rubber matting between rows.



Well, I will have to start tippling! In addition to the Syrah, I am making ~30 bottles of Viognier, which I am definitely putting in Burgundy bottles.

Actually, I do not have Seville racks. I made my own Harlequin diamond racks from 1x8's (link in 1st post, picture below).

I had a nice realization last night while rounding up and cleaning bottles in preparation for bottling a kit. Now, the great majority of my bottles are ones that I have already used at least once. The labels come off much more easily than the labels of most commercial wines, so delabeling has gotten a LOT easier!


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## rustbucket (Sep 23, 2017)

Paul,

We're of like mind; I try to match the bottle shape to the variatal being bottled. 

I keep the bottles in the boxes they came in when I store a batch so stacking isn't an issue for me.


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## pgentile (Sep 23, 2017)

Pragmatic here mostly, but prefer bordeaux style bottles.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 23, 2017)

I just took a more careful look at my bottle inventory, and found a few score Burgundy bottles squirreled away. I will probably be fine by the time I bottle the Syrah and Viognier ~ 1 yr from now.


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## dralarms (Sep 23, 2017)

Everything I make goes in regular bottles, I only have a case or 2 of the burgundy bottles and just as soon as they are empty I put them at the head of the class to get them out of my sight.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 23, 2017)

dralarms said:


> Everything I make goes in regular bottles, I only have a case or 2 of the burgundy bottles and just as soon as they are empty I put them at the head of the class to get them out of my sight.



I like it, but not sure what it means! "Head of the class" means that, even though you don't like them, you use them as quickly as possible in order to get rid of them?

I rather like that logic.


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## dralarms (Sep 23, 2017)

sour_grapes said:


> I like it, but not sure what it means! "Head of the class" means that, even though you don't like them, you use them as quickly as possible in order to get rid of them?
> 
> I rather like that logic.



Ep, can't bring myself to toss them so just as soon as they are empty I clean them and put them back in rotation and they get used next.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 25, 2017)

I'm authentic, but flexible.  Reds pretty much go into Bordeaux, except Pinot Noir. Pinot Noir, Viognier, Chardonnay in Burgundy. 

Let's not start talking bottle color though.


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## Rocky (Sep 25, 2017)

Paul, I used the try to match the wine with the "correct" bottle, but stacking became an issue so I went to straight sided green and clear Bordeaux bottles, exclusively. I am winnowing out Burgundy bottles and slope-sided Bordeaux bottles. I just bought a sixty cases of green and clear so I should be able make the transition in a year or two.


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## Ajmassa (Sep 25, 2017)

Seems like everyone is pretty similar. And basically do our best to keep it as traditional as possible. I 'thought' I preferred traditional Bordeaux bottles. Until I started to use labels on my last couple batches. Maybe it's me and I'm doing something wrong but the taper on those bottles makes it impossible to put a label on it without looking crooked. 
So at this point my preference is the cheaper green (thinner glass) straight classic style without the taper. 
Dressed up they still look like a Legit product. But What I have been keeping my eye out for is shrink capsules that are NOT the standard cheap ones in every brew shop. It's always the same kind offered. I think nicer capsules would make a big difference.


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## NorCal (Sep 25, 2017)

I try to match because it tastes better when it's in the correct bottle.


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## bkisel (Sep 25, 2017)

Not so much... Dark bottle for red/dark wines, clear(ish) bottles for whites/light colored wines. Hate the punted bottles because they're harder/slower to fill with the wand yet like them, once they're filled, for gifting.

BTW, interesting topic.


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## JohnT (Sep 25, 2017)

I use Bordeaux bottles for all of wines (dark green for red, and clear for white). 

Like others have already said, the Bordeaux bottle stacks way better than burgundy bottles (especially when I am stacking 5 cases at a time (diamond-cube rack). 

In fact, I did have a burgundy-bottle avalanche once. Luckily, it was one of the lower racks and I only broke 6 bottles. 

Another reason, one that I do not think has been brought up, is the advantage the Bordeaux bottle has when dealing with sediment. The shoulders of the bottle are perfect for trapping any sediment that accumulates over time. Burgundy bottles have no shoulders, just a smooth tapered neck, making decanting more of a chore.


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## Kraffty (Sep 25, 2017)

I end up with almost all burgundy glass, but for a completely out of my control reason. I buy from a wholesale warehouse and end up buying just before bottling every other year, unfortunately this year like a couple of years ago their supply of bordeaux in both green and flint are either gone or reserved for the big guys. fortunately my racks have individual shelfs so I don't have to stack them and, after those are full, I store in the original cases. As for personal tastes I think the burgundy are a much more graceful looking bottle.
Mike


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## wineforfun (Sep 25, 2017)

Don't really care. As long as what is in them is good, I am ok.

Like Bill, I try to keep reds in darker bottles and whites/fruits in lighter ones but I go with whatever I have on hand.


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## sour_grapes (Sep 25, 2017)

Boatboy24 said:


> I'm authentic, but flexible.  Reds pretty much go into Bordeaux, except Pinot Noir. Pinot Noir, Viognier, Chardonnay in *Bordeaux*.
> 
> Let's not start talking bottle color though.



Just making sure: your second "Bordeaux" was meant to be "Burgundy," right?

Edit: Jim fixed this. I was going to delete this now-meaningless post, but I no longer can see a way to delete posts. What am I missing?


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 25, 2017)

sour_grapes said:


> Just making sure: your second "Bordeaux" was meant to be "Burgundy," right?



D'oh!


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## pillswoj (Sep 25, 2017)

Reds go mostly in Green Bordeaux, I think I have about 60 Burgandy that I will use for pinot. Whites (pinot grigio or Chardoney) go in clear Bordeaux. 

Rieslings and Gewurztraminer always go in green / brown Hock bottles anything else is just wrong


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## sour_grapes (Sep 25, 2017)

pillswoj said:


> Rieslings and Gewurztraminer always go in green / brown Hock bottles anything else is just wrong



I agree with you there, which is one reason I would hesitate to make one of those varieties!


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## mainshipfred (Sep 25, 2017)

Different twist to this thread but still bottles. I bought 7 cases of green Bordeaux bottles from Mid West Supply or someone. They are really light compared to the bottles I recycle from wineries. Is there a wieght classification for bottles?


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## 4score (Sep 25, 2017)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Seems like everyone is pretty similar. And basically do our best to keep it as traditional as possible. I 'thought' I preferred traditional Bordeaux bottles. Until I started to use labels on my last couple batches. Maybe it's me and I'm doing something wrong but the taper on those bottles makes it impossible to put a label on it without looking cooked.
> So at this point my preference is the cheaper green (thinner glass) straight classic style without the taper.
> Dressed up they still look like a Legit procuct. What I have been keeping my eye out for is shrink capsules that are the standard cheap ones in every brew shop. It's always the same kind offered



I agree about the taper vs straight Bordeaux bottle. So much easier to put a label on the straight, non-tapered bottle.


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## pillswoj (Sep 25, 2017)

mainshipfred said:


> Different twist to this thread but still bottles. I bought 7 cases of green Bordeaux bottles from Mid West Supply or someone. They are really light compared to the bottles I recycle from wineries. Is there a wieght classification for bottles?



My bottle supplier in Niagara is getting Chinese produced bottles, they are very light relative to Canadian produced bottles, but I am only paying 7.95 $C per dozen


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 25, 2017)

mainshipfred said:


> Different twist to this thread but still bottles. I bought 7 cases of green Bordeaux bottles from Mid West Supply or someone. They are really light compared to the bottles I recycle from wineries. Is there a wieght classification for bottles?



Some are definitely 'better' than others. I've been very happy with bottles ordered from MoreWine and from Shore Container. You need to play with quantity to find the 'sweet spot' for shipping. 

Shore is here in VA, but IIRC, down on the northern neck - 2-3 hrs each way.


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## Sage (Sep 25, 2017)

For those having stacking problems: Go the dollar store and buy the expanded rubber non slip drawer liner. It comes in several colors. Cut the roll to fit your bottles. They will not move or commit suicide any longer, even the sloped ones stay put.


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## GreenEnvy22 (Sep 25, 2017)

pillswoj said:


> My bottle supplier in Niagara is getting Chinese produced bottles, they are very light relative to Canadian produced bottles, but I am only paying 7.95 $C per dozen



Sounds like the pricing I get at Watsons, same for you?


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## Ajmassa (Sep 25, 2017)

I think the more I care about the batch, the more I care about the bottles. Now that I've scaled up to 100+ bottle batches I see myself going out of my way for legit bottles for the seasonal batches. 
But for kits I still will use whatever I have around. I just did a Rosè and basically if it was clear- it was good enough. But that in itself gave each bottle its own little personality. (And it was also kinda fun remembering where they came from. 'The Mother's Day rose we hated' or 'that was the Sauv Blanc bottle for topping'. I don't know. Thought it was cool.). Ain't no stacking these though. 
Check it out.


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## balatonwine (Sep 26, 2017)

Bottle shape is historical. From regional traditions in Europe. Shape does not really matter except in sales and marketing to a popular international market, and to indicate to those "in the know" what type of wine to expect in the bottle. 

I like the traditional and historical nature. So it can be fun. But I don't over do it however. But if one does choose to be rigid about bottle shape, then at least be consistent. So if one insists that is just wrong to put a Gewürztraminer into anything but a Rhine bottle, then I might counter that is then also just wrong to drink that same wine in anything but a traditional German wine glass : 







But other than that, saying there is just one correct bottle shape for a wine, to me, is rather boring in a pretentious sort of way. I like to think outside the box as well. So I also like the twisted, quirky bottle from Châteauneuf-du-Pape. Because life is too short to be normal all the time .


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## NorCal (Sep 26, 2017)

NorCal said:


> I try to match because it tastes better when it's in the correct bottle.



I say this only partially in jest. Drinking wine has a to do with perception; the look & feel, atmosphere and romance. If it is just me, heck I'll drink it out of a carboy. If I'm sharing with someone that could care less, I also don't care.

If I'm giving a bottle to someone that really knows their wine, I want the bottle to be correct, the label to look professional, put on straight, a matching capsule and the bottle nice and clean. I want them to compare my wines to nice wines that they can buy commercially and don't want it pre-judged because of a detail like the bottle shape.

If I received a Cabernet in a used Burgandy bottle, with left over glue, a funny label with water marks on it, I'm going to pre-judge the wine. Doesn't change the wine that's in there, but for me if the outside is done right, it shows attention to detail that I assume I will also find in the bottle.


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## pillswoj (Sep 26, 2017)

GreenEnvy22 said:


> Sounds like the pricing I get at Watsons, same for you?



That would be the place lol


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## mainshipfred (Sep 27, 2017)

Boatboy24 said:


> Some are definitely 'better' than others. I've been very happy with bottles ordered from MoreWine and from Shore Container. You need to play with quantity to find the 'sweet spot' for shipping.
> 
> Shore is here in VA, but IIRC, down on the northern neck - 2-3 hrs each way.



A while back I talked to them. If I remember correctly a pallet picked up was fairly reasonable. That's definately too many bottles for me.


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## balatonwine (Sep 28, 2017)

NorCal said:


> Drinking wine has a to do with perception; the look & feel, atmosphere and romance.



Amen


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## CabSauv (Oct 13, 2017)

I only drink what I like to call proper red wines (dry) and they all come in a Bordeaux style bottle so that's what I'll be using to bottle my own.


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## jgmann67 (Oct 13, 2017)

Count me among the traditionalists. Presentation is huuuuge.


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## Smok1 (Oct 13, 2017)

I dont worry about bottle shape right now although im sure ill get there, im more worried about bottles period. Like having enough.


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