# Are Plastic Carboys Really That Bad



## Waldo (Oct 21, 2005)

In my ever continuing quest for knowledge about making wine or should I say making good wine my biggest hurdle has been disseminating the often contradicatory information I find about techniques, procedures, equipment, etc. Thus dilema brought about the birth of this topic. I have read much about the perils of using plastic carboys until I read the following on Jack Kellers Advanced Wine Making Basics web site a little while ago. http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/finishin.asp


Now I am not going to advocate the use of plastic but would like to hear from any who have and what were your results.


*"Many stores sell drinking water in 5-gallon plastic bottles. The water costs $4 or so and the store requires a $6 deposit on the bottle. These bottles are made of food-grade plastic and are ideal for wine undergoing bulk aging. If you use bottled water anyway, this is a pretty good deal. If you're willing to forfeit the deposit, you can acquire 5-gallon aging bottles for only $6 each. Be advised, however, that some people are of the opinion that oxygen can permeate this plastic and oxidize wine thus aged. I have looked in vain for scientific evidence of this and have not yet found it. Use your own judgement."*


----------



## Hippie (Oct 21, 2005)

I think you should experiment with them Waldo. One thang that keeps coming to my mind about the plastic carboys is the possiblity of 'suck back' from mashing in the sides and releasing, such as when picking up and transporting. I suppose you could put them in harnesses or milk crates, might still mash the sides in. I have lots of glass ones, so haven't really considered them.


----------



## Waldo (Oct 21, 2005)

I am still "Carboy Poor" Hippie so I might consider trying one. I have a 3 gallon one I got from Wal Mart some time back to carry water for camping trips.


----------



## MedPretzel (Oct 21, 2005)

For the initial fermentation, I would use a plastic carboy. However, for bulk aging and longer contact times, I would still use a glass one. I am a very cheap person by nature, but I still wouldn't bulk age in a plastic carboy. 





If you rinse out the plastic carboys right after use, and use a good sanitizing agent after you thoroughly rinse them out, let them dry with their opening to the bottom, and then rinse and sanitize them again before use, you'd probably be okay. I would not, however, try to use a bottle brush on them, since plastic is prone to scratch, and there, little buggers known as bacteria can find a safe harbor there. I would not want to risk that for bulk aging.


I occasionally use a plastic carboy for my initial ferment -- usually after I get the murky-must out of the primary. 





So, I would say, go for it!!!




I have heard that Wal-Mart has 5 gallon plastic water carboys with handles, which makes lifting a whole lot easier.





Keep us posted, I hope this helped!





martina*Edited by: MedPretzel *


----------



## Hippie (Oct 21, 2005)

Lets all please remember not to confuse secondary fermentation vessel with secondary fermentation. 2 completely different meanings. Thanks!


----------



## Hi In The Pines (Oct 22, 2005)

Here are my 2 cents.


When I first started and really wanted to get going, I had only purchaseda starter ingredient kit from George. I went to my local water bottling company and purchased 2 3-gallon plastic carboys for $5 each and used them to ferment my fruit for my wines. Everything has turned out perfect. I did rack to glass carboys and continue to use glass for everything past initial fermentation. I now have the primary fermentation buckets and use them instead of the plastic water carboys because its easier to stir the must with the wider opening. The plastic carboys are now used to collect change from my pockets.


----------



## geocorn (Oct 22, 2005)

Be careful with plastic! Not all food grade is the same. See the following for info that Masta posted earlier this week:<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />



"Smurfe, I would advise against using your returnable water bottles as a secondary fermenter. They are not made of the same plastic as the Better Bottle and most likely won't offer the same protection for your wine.


Info from Better Bottle: The materials used to make Better-Bottle carboys and their related components have non-porous, unreactive, non-absorbing surfaces, so they are extremely resistant to staining, do not pick up flavors, and are easy to clean and sanitize. The special, scientifically tested, polyethylene terepthalate (PET) plastics have negligible oxygen permeability.


I took a quick look at the Poland Spring bottles we have a work and they have a #7 code on the bottom.


Here’s what the numbers represent: 
<UL =square>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">#1 - Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) </LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">#2 - High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) </LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">#3 - Vinyl (Polyvinyl Chloride or PVC) </LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">#4 - Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) </LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">#5 - Polypropylene (PP) </LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">#6 - Polystyrene (PS) </LI>
<LI =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1">#7 - Other (which commonly includes: Polycarbonate, ABS, Nylon, Acrylic or a composite of 2 or more resins)"</LI>[/list]
And Hippie added:
"Only #1 and #2 are ok for winemaking, #2 only ok for fermentation, in my opinion. For long term, I would only use glass or stainless steel, but alot of people use #1."

I know cost is always a concern, but be careful about "cheaping" out too much.


----------



## Waldo (Oct 22, 2005)

Wine Kit = 99.00 + 19.00/Primary Fermenter + 21.00 Carboy = Good Wine


Wine Kit = 99.00 + 19.00 Primary/Fermenter + 5.00/Plastic Carboy = Possible






OK...Glass it will be for me


----------

