# NEEDING SOME ADVICE



## Waldo (Jul 3, 2007)

Lets begin with my elderberries. They bloomed beautifully, and are still blooming for that matter, then they dropped their blooms and formed this







The next stage was this






And now they are just drying up and falling off and looking like this

































I wanted them to look like these that I found out in the wild and have staked out














Next up are my Muscadines. I am having a battle with some type of insect/bug that look a lot like little black knats without wings. Here are a couple of pictures that show the little buggers. I can spray the plants and in about 4-5 days they are back again
Any help would be appreciated on either or both concerns.


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 3, 2007)

YIKES!!!!




















I have seen berries drop if they weren't pollinated well....or were over populated....


But, those bugs...persistant little buggers aren't they????


A case for ANSWERMAN!!! Appleman...step forward!!!


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## grapeman (Jul 3, 2007)

First off, the elderberries probably weren't pollinated so as the seeds are supposed to form, there aren't any and the berries drop because they don't have the seeds to develop. Another cause could be excessive heat. I wouldn't worry too much other than being dissapointed. As the plant matures in another year or two, it will more than likely be covered and stay that way until the birds get to them(throw a bird net over them).


Next, the wild elderberries that are covered- aren't elderberries. Not sure what they are, but they look more like sumac. Is the stem covered with a pink to red fuzz?


Next, I can't see the bugs other than little black blobs. The size of knats without wings? Could be a variety of aphids, or one of a million other insects. If spraying gets rid of them for about five days, wait a week and spray again. A few sprayings should get rid of the breeding population and they should let up. You might want to alternate a couple insectides. That usually knocks them out quicker. If you want a more positive ID, we need better pictures man! Retrieve that camera off the lake bottom


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## Waldo (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks NW &amp;Appleman. I will order me some Elderberries for this year and get a different brand of bug spray, Be patient and wait until next year.


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## Wade E (Jul 4, 2007)

Hey Waldo, is that a fake blow up snake in 1 of those pics?


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## swillologist (Jul 4, 2007)

I saw that to wade. 
Wado you could make some tea out the sumac. Or atleast that is what they tell me. I'm not going to do it. LOL 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumac#Cultivation_and_uses


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## grapeman (Jul 4, 2007)

Waldo what do the little insects look like. I though of another insect they might be. Are they really ugly little critters about 1/8 to 1/4" long with fairly thick legs and no wings. Ladybug larvae are really ugly little critters that don't harm the plants. If that's what they are you don't want to be killing them they are a beneficial insect. If you can yet, zoom in on one and post the picture and I should be able to tell the difference. If you have a large picture of it zoomed in on that is to big to post, PM me and I will give you my e-mail address to send the picture to.


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## Waldo (Jul 4, 2007)

Yep, its a fake blow up snake wade..."posed" to keep the birds away. 


Appleman, all those pictures were taken with my phone camera but "WooooooHoooooooo" my baby got me a new Canon 6MP Digital for my birthday that I am trying to figure out and as soon as I do i will get some good closeups or maybe even a short video as the camera will also shootup to one hour or 1GB of video.


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## rgecaprock (Jul 5, 2007)

Waldo, You will love your camera


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## jsmahoney (Jul 5, 2007)

Waldo contgrats on the new camera, you will wonder how you ever got along without it. As far as the Elderberries, ours are in bloom, and we are waiting patiently for them to bare fruit. The last picture of wild berries isn't Elderberries as appleman stated.


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## grapeman (Jul 5, 2007)

Waldo here is a picture of Lady Bug Larvae. Look like this at all? 



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=500>
<T>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top colSpan=2 height=68>Several species of lady-beetles are active in vineyards. They are generally oval and red to orange with varying numbers of dark spots. Both adults and larvae are predators, eating soft-bodied small insects.</TD>
<TD width=170 height=68>



</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=left width=190 height=34>



</TD>
<TD align=left width=217 height=34>



</TD>
<TD align=left height=34></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top align=left height=34>Ladybeetle eggs are yellow and barrel-shaped and laid in clusters. </TD>
<TD align=left height=34>Larvae have dark, elongated bodies with orange markings and well developed legs. 5 mm</TD></TR></T></TABLE>



















Now you have no reason not to take pictures with That camera!



*Edited by: appleman *


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## Waldo (Jul 5, 2007)

Nawwwww these look nothing like those appleman..I am headed down to the plants now and see if any have returned and if so maybe I can get a better picture with the new camera 


Hows this one?




*Edited by: Waldo *


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## grapeman (Jul 5, 2007)

That's cool Waldo! Motion picture Bugs!






And the verdict is..... probably aphids. They have the look and all the characteristics of aphids. They don't do a ton of harm, but can make a sticky mess. If you want to clean them up... Malathion is very effective against them. Garden centers and a lot of times Lowes, etc carrie it in a fairly weak solution. Not terribly toxic to people, but stinks when applied and best to be safe with it. A lot of the fruit tree spray mixes carry malathion as one of the active ingredients. 


****Read and follow all labels. I in no way recommend or accept responsibility for the application of this product. End of disclaimer***


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## Waldo (Jul 6, 2007)

Thanks appleman..will give that a try


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## NorthernWinos (Jul 6, 2007)

We get over-run with European Lady Beatles in the fall...I think they were introduced to eat aphids and now they are a huge problem.....they stink and bite and get into everything...In the fall they will cover the sides of the house and Jim said he hates to get out of the combine that it is like a Hitchcock movie...


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## paubin (Jul 14, 2007)

Also with the aphids, they are usually associated with ants that harvest there nectar. The ants care for them so if you get rid of the ants the aphids usually go away too. 


That certainly looked like red sumac to me and I have heard of wine being made form them as well as a nice tea, which I used to make in my youth. I think I saw a recipe for sumac wine in Jack Kellers site. Just make sure it's red sumac before using!!!! Red is harmless and was using for medicinal purposes by eastern Indian tribes for hundreds of years before us white folks came. White sumac on the other hand is Bad, Bad, Bad!!!!!
Pete


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## Waldo (Aug 2, 2007)

The malathon worked great appleman, Thanks !!! Now, back to my Elderberries. I am getting quite a few ripening on my trees right now and am just cutting off the entire head.












Here is my problem/question. As you can see in the next picture, there are some of the berries that have not fully ripened and some are stillgreen. Right now they are in zip loc bags in the freezer in that state. When I get ready to process them, what is my best approach going to be? Do I need to just sit down and pick out all of the unripe ones or can I just throw the entire heads, stems and allinto my steamer and leter bump?









*Edited by: Waldo *


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## grapeman (Aug 2, 2007)

Sorry Waldo my man - that would give you a huge green- goo mess. The berries all need to come off the stems and the green ones need to come out. Since they are frozen you have step one done. I hope Cracked Cork jumps in here, ne knows more about it, but you can make a seperator board. You put the frozen berries in a food safe bag(garbage size) and kind of beat it on the floor. That makes all the berries come off in the bag. Cut a small hole in the corner and while they are still frozen spill them out that hole onto the seperator board and as they roll down it the small stems stay on the board and the berries roll into the catch vessel. Then it's a matter of pickint the unripe berries out. 


When Cracked Cork chimes in(I think he also shows the board on his webpage) make your seperator but in the meantime you keep adding to the frozen berries. Let them get as ripe as you can, they taste better and there are less green ones.


Good luck.


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## NorthernWinos (Aug 2, 2007)

Waldo...try a small baych in the steamer...I read some place that if they are cooked there is no green goo.


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## Waldo (Aug 2, 2007)

Thanks Appleman and NW. Do either know if it is typical for there to be such varying degrees of ripeness on each head? I had tried waiting a couple of days longer to let the lagggers ripen on upbut the ripe ones began drying up and there were more of them so you know what course of action I took. *Edited by: Waldo *


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## grapeman (Aug 2, 2007)

It happens more often than we would all like. That's part of the troubles of making wine out of them. And it does seem I also read somewhere about the steamer not making green goo....... Don't remember where.


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## swillologist (Aug 2, 2007)

I have a recipe that uses the dry ones Waldo.


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## Waldo (Aug 3, 2007)

Thanks swill.I woulds like to see it


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## NorthernWinos (Aug 3, 2007)

Will be interesting to see if the steamer makes the green-goo-waxy stuff....Hope to try a cluster or two and report back. 


I have been reading try to find where it was I read about cooking them doesn't make the goo-wax...but can't seem to find it.


I did read where they say to wait till they are very ripe, heads hanging down..and then wait even longer....Also read they strip them from the stems with a dining fork.


Cracked Cork's WebSite has good info.


Good luck and share your exeriences....



*Edited by: Northern Winos *


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## grapeman (Aug 3, 2007)

Check out some of Cracked Corks links at his site for tips etc.


http://www.geocities.com/wvmountaineerjack/Elderberries/ElderberriesHarvest.html


http://www.geocities.com/wvmountaineerjack/Elderberries/ElderberriesWine.html


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