# trellis installation



## berrycrush (Jun 4, 2014)

Can anyone recommend a good video on how to install trellis using 12.5 high tensile wire and 6" round wood posts? I was searching on YouTube but haven't found any good instructions.


----------



## GreginND (Jun 4, 2014)

I haven't found any good videos either. What trellis system are you planning to use? What will you do for your end posts - H-brace or angled post?


----------



## spaniel (Jun 4, 2014)

It can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. What I did:

-Measure out rows and plot position of posts and ground anchors
-Dug holes to correct width/length/depth, put in posted. Used short 2X4s on down-lean side of posted to hold them at correct angle
-Put ground anchors (in my case, rerod with a 90-degree angle on the ground end and a loop bent into the air end) into holes, using short 2X4 to hold in correct place
-Poured concrete around post (optional, some people don't want to do this) and ground anchor (depending what you are using for ground anchor not always necessary). Fill in dirt and pack
-After concrete hardening, drill holes in post at correct height for wires and install Wire-Vise tensioners (YMMV, depending on what tensioning system you decide to use. Wire-Vises are effective and cheap).
-String wire. Use vise-grips to tension. Tighten occasionally as wire stretches.
-Pound in steel runner posts with sledge hammer and hang wire on them (again, depending how long your run is or what you are using for running posts, this may differ). On my longest run I have a couple wood posts to add additional weight and wind resistance, wires are staples onto those.


----------



## ThePlantGuy978 (Jun 5, 2014)

I also used Wire-Vise tensioners, love them, easy to use and cheap. You can get them at Agri Supply including the 12.5 high tensile wire , both at a good price. Check them out at www.AgriSupply.com.
Good luck.

Hans


----------



## berrycrush (Jun 5, 2014)

I am planning to use angled end posts ( 6" round wood ) with earth anchors. It is the wiring part I am looking for instruction and what tools work the best. Some questions for example: Do you tension from anchor to anchor? Does the wire wrap around the post or just pass through the U nail?


----------



## GreginND (Jun 5, 2014)

You want the wires to wrap around the end posts but you don't want them wrapped around posts in between. Use the U staples for that. You need free movement of the wire across the trellis for expansion and contraction. You will want a tensioner on each line to allow you to adjust the tension over time. Typically in the winter people ease the tension on the lines because the wires will contract due to the cold. You don't want them pulling too much. As the lines stretch out from weight you can increase the tension with the tensioner. I think TSC calls the tensioners "wire strainers" or "wire tighteners".


----------



## berrycrush (Jun 5, 2014)

GreginND said:


> You want the wires to wrap around the end posts but you don't want them wrapped around posts in between. Use the U staples for that. You need free movement of the wire across the trellis for expansion and contraction. You will want a tensioner on each line to allow you to adjust the tension over time. Typically in the winter people ease the tension on the lines because the wires will contract due to the cold. You don't want them pulling too much. As the lines stretch out from weight you can increase the tension with the tensioner. I think TSC calls the tensioners "wire strainers" or "wire tighteners".



If I understand you correctly, you ease the wire in the winter and tighten it up in the summer. Since both end is wrapped, so the tensioner is placed in the middle? what kind of tensioner do you use?


----------



## berrycrush (Jun 5, 2014)

This Gripple tool looks interesting, anyone using it?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OqckDQFhyQ[/ame]


----------



## grapeman (Jun 5, 2014)

I have tried both wire tensioners and the gripples. I will never use tensioners again. Period. Gripples work easily and allow retightening as the wire stretches. Never had too much contraction over winter to cause a problem. The high tensile wire just does not wrap well around the tensioner. I use a wire loop around the post and throught the archor and fasten with a gripple. Attach the top wire around the post on the ends, using staples only on line posts. A gripple at each end allows for tightening on both ends (useful for long runs). The mid wire is fastened the same way. I have tried a dozen different methods and this way seems to work best.


----------



## berrycrush (Jun 6, 2014)

grapeman said:


> I have tried both wire tensioners and the gripples. I will never use tensioners again. Period. Gripples work easily and allow retightening as the wire stretches. Never had too much contraction over winter to cause a problem. The high tensile wire just does not wrap well around the tensioner. I use a wire loop around the post and throught the archor and fasten with a gripple. Attach the top wire around the post on the ends, using staples only on line posts. A gripple at each end allows for tightening on both ends (useful for long runs). The mid wire is fastened the same way. I have tried a dozen different methods and this way seems to work best.



If you say it works well for you, I am buying it! Thanks Grapeman!


----------



## GreginND (Jun 6, 2014)

I have heard very good things about the gripples too. I was concerned about the ability to reduce tension in winter. But if that really isn't an issue, I will definitely use gripples.


----------



## garymc (Jun 6, 2014)

I use gripples to connect loops around my H brace posts, but I wouldn't count on being able to easily loosen the wire or get it tensioned well with them. I use in-line wire strainer ratchets for the main wires. My wires are 8 gauge high tensile. This is a muscadine vineyard.


----------



## grapeman (Jun 7, 2014)

Gary, what is the trick to wrap the wire around the tensioner? Even 12.5 guage seems too stiff to wrap for me here. 

Regular wine grapes don't need as much tension as I would expect the very heavy muscadines to need. The gripples do not release easily. I find by autumn that the wires have stretched just enough over the summer to be alright for the winter, but then it only gets to -20 ro so F here. Just retension in the spring with the tightening tool and you are all set.


----------



## garymc (Jun 7, 2014)

I think I used vise grips to handle the wire. I might have even used a hammer to bend it after putting it through the hole in the left end of the strainer in the pics above. Then used the wire grabber and a comealong to bring the spool end and that end of the wire together. Getting it started in the spool is a bit of a trick, too, but once it's in there, tightening and loosening is a snap. I had to have enough slack that I could get three fourths of a revolution on the ratchet before it started getting tight. Sometimes I just play with the ratchets. 
Edit to respond: There's a hole in the spool into which you insert the spool end of the wire. The thick wire I'm using may be an advantage, because it's snug in that hole. When you start cranking the ratchet, the wire wraps around the spool. If there's enough tension, it will conform. I'm shooting for 300 pounds of tension, more or less. 
There's a tightening tool? Maybe that's why I didn't have good luck with the Gripples. I used a grabber thing and a comealong. You can see in the last picture what I did to tension the H brace loop. Primitive, but it's doing the job.


----------



## garymc (Jun 7, 2014)

Only a few of my vines are up on the wires and after this winter I lost a few feet of some of those, but this summer I should be getting pretty good coverage on most of the wires. I used railroad ties for the H brace uprights and an 8 foot 4x6 inch beam for the cross brace. I could have used a 2x4, but I wanted the massive look. Here's a couple of pics of how I put in the RR ties. I dug a hole, beveled it to the side some to make it easy to slide the RR tie into the hole. I used the 4x6 inch beam as a fulcrum to lift the ties. The ties are pretty heavy, so you have to use leverage to move them around.
Naturally, the pictures are in reverse order.


----------



## grapeman (Jun 7, 2014)

Yes there is a tensioning tool. Check it out here: http://www.orchardvalleysupply.com/ovsstore/pc/Gripple-Tensioning-Tool-14p105.htm


----------



## peaches9324 (Jun 8, 2014)

I'm changing my trellis system from VSP to GDC I have Frontenac and Marquette vines on that row don't have the wire up yet, just the posts late in the game I know.. but is there a pic anywhere of this system? Was gonna use the VSP because it is the most used, but I want to optimize fruit production. Much appreciated and I would like to have Grapeman views on this
thank you


----------



## grapeman (Jun 8, 2014)

Kay remember that the higher the fruit production, the closer you need to monitor for potentiaql disease, etc. Top Wire Cordon (High Wire) would be a good compromise. Both Frontenac and Marquette are vigorous growers and have a fairly trailing habit so they are well adapted to a top wire. It is easy to visualize and implement. Just "comb" the shoots downward while separating them. It is easy and quick. A GDC just gives you two high wire fruiting zones. If you implement that type, get as much distance as you can between the wires. Thoughts?


----------



## peaches9324 (Jun 8, 2014)

yes I was thinking of the TWC system also for my La Crescent vines that had just arrived I rather use only one training system
thank you


----------



## garymc (Jun 8, 2014)

I'm reading that the additional production with gdc trellis system is not that great and as grapeman pointed out, there may be disadvantages other than how hard it is to build. That being said, I have gdc for my muscadines. One reason is that if I ever harvest any, it will be by spreading a tarp and beating the wire with a bat. Muscadines get loose when they ripen, and they ripen unevenly. Since my wires are 4 feet apart, I have 2 feet from the post for the tarp to be centered under the wire. Think of a stretcher like in WWII carrying a wounded soldier, 2 sticks with a fabric between them. The other reason for the gdc for me is that I can have 36 to 40 feet of cordon on each vine (some are only 18 feet apart.) I have muscadines in my back yard crowded onto an arbor and I prune some of the current season growth off them in July or August to keep them from being unruly. Some of these shoots I prune 8 to 10 feet off a shoot. So they need room. I'm hoping the gdc system will allow me to have shoots that are only 3 or 4 feet long by the end of the season. I have a lot to learn about this, like should I prune off shoots coming off the bottom of the cordon heading straight down?


----------



## berrycrush (Jun 16, 2014)

This Gripples thing got be one of the best tools man ever invented. Connecting two piece of wire couldn't be any easier. The tensioning tool is easy to use, strong yet light. No more hard bending or tight looping ( tight looping a 12.5 gauge, seriously?)


----------



## grapeman (Jun 16, 2014)

Sounds to me that you are liking it! It is truly a great product.


----------



## LittleBearGameFarm (Jun 16, 2014)

Berrycrush, Grapeman - I see that you both have put landscape fabric down along your rows. I think I read somewhere (here or a book) that mulching around the vines could be bad for my area. I live about an hour straight east of Minneapolis and we definitely get some cold weather (last year was extreme) and unpredictable springs. What I had read is that it could lead to pre-warming of the soil, early bud break, and increase the chance of freezeout due to late frosts. I would like to do this to keep everything neat and tidy looking but would you recommend it for my area?

Thanks!


----------



## GreginND (Jun 16, 2014)

I have wire, I have gripples on order. Now all I need are my posts. Been waiting for two months and the supplier has not answered any of our calls. Too bad they threw away a big order. Finally found a new supplier that will deliver within the week.


----------



## grapeman (Jun 16, 2014)

LittleBear the plastic mulch I used was to prevent too much weed competition in the establishment years and will come up afterwards. I don't think the little extra heat would be enough to worry about. You can compensate for any early push by delaying pruning which holds them back a bit in the spring.


----------



## grapeman (Jun 16, 2014)

I know exactly what you mean by the supplier. I have one who I ordered 3 display racks from a month and a half ago. They have been paid already and they are really close to receiving a very bad review from me on these forums if they don't ship soon.


----------



## berrycrush (Jun 17, 2014)

LittleBearGameFarm said:


> Berrycrush, Grapeman - I see that you both have put landscape fabric down along your rows. I think I read somewhere (here or a book) that mulching around the vines could be bad for my area. I live about an hour straight east of Minneapolis and we definitely get some cold weather (last year was extreme) and unpredictable springs. What I had read is that it could lead to pre-warming of the soil, early bud break, and increase the chance of freezeout due to late frosts. I would like to do this to keep everything neat and tidy looking but would you recommend it for my area?
> 
> Thanks!



The silver plastic mulch keeps the soil cooler, maybe too much cooler this year when the spring comes late. Most vines showed no sign of bud breaking until three weeks after planting, which worried me a little.


----------



## bchilders (Jun 17, 2014)

grapeman said:


> Kay remember that the higher the fruit production, the closer you need to monitor for potentiaql disease, etc. Top Wire Cordon (High Wire) would be a good compromise. Both Frontenac and Marquette are vigorous growers and have a fairly trailing habit so they are well adapted to a top wire. It is easy to visualize and implement. Just "comb" the shoots downward while separating them. It is easy and quick. A GDC just gives you two high wire fruiting zones. If you implement that type, get as much distance as you can between the wires. Thoughts?



I would also add that shoot thinning and leaf pulling around the fruiting zone is important to allow for air flow for disease management. Here in NC and VA, much research is being done to validate this but it shows a lot of promise.


----------



## GreginND (Jul 25, 2014)

I have 2/3 of my vineyard h-braces and twc wires done in one day. I can definitely say gripples are the best things ever. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


----------



## ThePlantGuy978 (Jul 26, 2014)

*Agri Supply*



ThePlantGuy978 said:


> I also used Wire-Vise tensioners, love them, easy to use and cheap. You can get them at Agri Supply including the 12.5 high tensile wire , both at a good price. Check them out at www.AgriSupply.com.
> Good luck.
> 
> Hans


I too got my Wire-vise tensioners and wire there, great quality and price. I wish that I had found them earlier!!!

Hans

www.MuscadinesAndMore.com


----------

