# Few questions on crushing



## Rocco (May 3, 2015)

1. I crushed/destemmed directly into my large 28 liter can. Seemed to work out ok but a little messy. Do you guys crush/destem directly into your fermentation vessel or do you go into another container and transfer?

2. Do you use that special stand that goes w the c/d to direct the grapes, and if so, what do you crush into?

3. I filled my 28 Gallon bucket with about 6 inches left at the top. Is that enough room for the cap? When I did this before I used 8 gallons buckets and it always seemed to bubble to the top. Will having a huge
Bucket this time mean I need a ton more head space?

4. It was a pain cleaning the c/d, very hard to pick out all the stems. Any tips ?


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## ibglowin (May 3, 2015)

I crush into a 20G Rectangular Brute Tote

For the first few seasons I used a couple of saw horses under the C/D but got tired of losing a little of my must as it didn't always make it into the bucket. The must then gets transferred into 20G Brute Primaries for fermentation. I only put about 13-14 gallons of must into a 20G Brute so their is a good 24" of head space. I do not think you have a big enough primary if you only have 6" of head space. You need to transfer some out to another primary.

Last season I went ahead and purchased the stand that goes with my C/D. MUCH better setup with zero loss. I still crush right into the rectangular Brute tote and then dump into a 20G Brute Primary.


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## Rocco (May 3, 2015)

Is there a difference between the 20g fementer and 20g tote? Do you mean the garbage can?

Also, can I stir, punch down with a sulfiter broom handle? I need something long. A punch down ditch is $100


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## ibglowin (May 3, 2015)

A 20G Fermenter to me is a Brute trashcan, round in shape. A tote is rectangular.

I would pickup one of the smaller hand punch down tools from Morewine Best $16 you will ever spend.


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## Rocco (May 3, 2015)

Ordered the punchdown tool from more wine. Local store has 32 gallon brute trash cans-- I figure a little extra room can't hurt right? Any disadvantage? I got 2 of them-- I have about 35 gallons of must so I will divide it between the 2z

Thanks!!


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## ibglowin (May 3, 2015)

No, plenty of CO2 coming off so don't worry about extra headspace. Your back will thank you for splitting it up. Keep the lid on and snapped to keep the flys/bugs out. Its not air tight in any way (so CO2 can escape) but will keep unwanted critters out.


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## Rocco (May 3, 2015)

cool thanks for your help. 

i took all your advice and its working well.

I assume the lids will allow enough o2 in and co2 out, I was thinking of using a cheese cloth…..any advantages/disadvantages to either?


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## ibglowin (May 3, 2015)

No need if you use the lid. There are two snaps 180 degrees apart. Plenty of room for O2 to get in and CO2 to get out plus keep the bad guys away.


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## Rocco (May 3, 2015)

awesome, thanks. You were a big help today. I love the brute buckets.


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## JohnT (May 4, 2015)

I built a stand for my crusher/destemer. It is the perfect height to accommodate a 30 gal brute trashcan. 

I'll try to post some pictures, but the destemmer sits perfectly into a box that has slanting stainless steel that funnels the crushed grapes into a 6 inch by 12 inch center opening.

We crush outside and "hump" the crushed grapes into the winery. The norm is to crush 3 full lugs of grapes (108 pounds) of grapes and have two men hump them inside.


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## Boatboy24 (May 4, 2015)

Rocco said:


> Ordered the punchdown tool from more wine.



That thing is worth every penny!


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## Rocco (May 4, 2015)

Boatboy24 said:


> That thing is worth every penny!




Should arrive tommorrow. I kept coming across stainless ones for over 100$. I'm excited about this one.


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## Rocco (May 4, 2015)

JohnT said:


> I built a stand for my crusher/destemer. It is the perfect height to accommodate a 30 gal brute trashcan.
> 
> I'll try to post some pictures, but the destemmer sits perfectly into a box that has slanting stainless steel that funnels the crushed grapes into a 6 inch by 12 inch center opening.
> 
> We crush outside and "hump" the crushed grapes into the winery. The norm is to crush 3 full lugs of grapes (108 pounds) of grapes and have two men hump them inside.




I would love to see pics!


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## Rocco (May 5, 2015)

Ok.

So I'm getting the stand to go with my C/S as Ibglowin has. I will crush/destem into a brute tote and then scoop(?) the must into the 32 gallon Brute garbage cans. From there I ferment and then scoop into a mesh bag that I have placed in the press.

All sound right so far?

Next question---so then what do I press into….

Presses are low to the ground---do I press into a tote? And if so, once its pressed into the tote, do I need to siphon into a carboy for MLF? How to a lift a tote full of 20G of Juice and then siphon?

Can you describe your exact process and exact materials so I may replicate it? 

Do you siphon or pump?


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## ibglowin (May 5, 2015)

I crush into my 20G Brute Tote. I can safely lift 3 lugs (crushed) and dump from tote into 20G Brute trashcan. Scooping would take forever it seems. Do not waste any time with a mesh bag. Total waste of time it will just slow you down and plug up immediately. Just dump the must into the press and let it pour right back out into your catch bucket. Keep pouring until your press is full or you run out of must. This is the very first step in the clearing process. Start your press and go slow. Let the press do the work. Ratchet a bit and wait a bit. rinse, repeat. Try and keep the free run separate from the press run if you can. The press run is much more tannic. I use 20G Brutes but only put 3 lugs or about 12-13 gallons in them just so I can work with them easier. When its time to press I use a 1 gallon bucket to grab a gallon at a time and pour into the press. When it gets down to a more manageable level I then pick up the Brute and pour the rest into the press slowly.

Here is a snap of my setup that works well for me. I place the press up high on an outdoor patio table. I use an old 6 Gallon Bucket as my catch bucket for free run.


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## Rocco (May 5, 2015)

Thanks! So you press into 6 gallon buckets. I would end up w about 5 of them. Do you then siphon it into carboys?

Could I just pour it into my stainless steel tank or do I have to siphon?

You mention separating the free run and press run. How to you add it back together...any tips?


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## ibglowin (May 5, 2015)

I press into the bucket, then siphon into carboys for settling and MLF. If you have a SS Tank you can just pour it little by little into it I suppose. I end up with about 6 gallons (sometimes more) of free run and about a gallon of press run for each 3 lugs. I use the press run to top off my barrels.


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## ceeaton (May 6, 2015)

Mike, love the backyard. That brick porch looks like a great place to relax and enjoy the fruits of your labor!


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## JohnT (May 6, 2015)

Hey glowin, 

I agree with you on the mesh bag....

I really hope you do not mind, but I have a couple of tips that you may want to consider...

1) Go to a restaurant supply store and get a large (1 foot diameter) strainer. place that over your bucket to strain the wine as it comes off your press. This helps prevent any seeds or skins from getting into your carboy.

2) When your bucket is full of pressed juice, why not use a large funnel to fill your carboy. This is what I do and it goes much, much quicker.

3) Why not syphon the free run juice before you go to the press? Go get a 4 foot length of 4" diameter PVC pipe. place an end cap on one end and drill a "ga-jillion" 3/8" holes all over the last 2 feet or so. Essentially, I am saying to make a large column sieve. Now, place that into your primary and syphon directly into your carboy. This will keep your free run juice separate and will also make lighter work of dumping your must into the press. Without all of that free run, it will go much, much, quicker.


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## Boatboy24 (May 6, 2015)

All good tips so far. 

When pressing, I set the press on an old nightstand (that nightstand normally serves to hold one of my barrels). A 6 gallon bucket fits nicely underneath. I rotate two back and forth. When I get a decent amount in one, I replace it with an empty and gently pour the wine into a carboy through a funnel. 

I scoop the skins out of the Brute with a large strainer and put them into the press. When I have the majority of the skins out of the brute, I'll pour the juice through a strainer and into a bucket. That 'filtered' juice then goes into the carboy via funnel or vacuum racking. I don't currently separate my free run and press run. As volume increases, I probably will. I'm currently doing about 8-10 gallons total (4 36lb lugs or 8 18lb lugs).


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## ibglowin (May 6, 2015)

Great exchange of crushing tips! Lots of ways to do this. Main thing is to learn from others as to what worked and what didn't. I used a paint strainer the first year. What a complete mess it made plus it took 3X as long to crush as it just kept plugging up. I get a few skins, a few seeds my way but they all work themselves out in short order. Seeds and skins float to the top of the carboy where they can be removed easily with a spoon etc.


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## Rocco (May 6, 2015)

Thanks guys.

My only thought on the large mesh bag--

I stick it in the basket to line it. I pour the must in and the free run goes right through. When full I press, pull the bag out, empty it and then put it back in.

In my mind this speeds the process for multiple batches as I can remove the grape skins quickly. Also, it prevents skins and seeds from making it into the free run.

Thoughts?


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## ibglowin (May 6, 2015)

Thanks! It is indeed our little piece of heaven here in the high desert southwest. Lots of irrigation required but it's worth it. It was the backdrop for our oldest daughters wedding a few years back.



ceeaton said:


> Mike, love the backyard. That brick porch looks like a great place to relax and enjoy the fruits of your labor!


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## ibglowin (May 6, 2015)

That was my thoughts exactly when I used it…….. 



Rocco said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> My only thought on the large mesh bag--
> 
> ...


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## ibglowin (May 6, 2015)

This is what the mesh bag does for you. It plugs up instantly and the moment you apply pressure juice starts looking for a way to get out. Since it can't escape down as usual, it JUST GOES EVERYWHERE……. SWMBO was not happy to be helping me to say the least. We were both covered in juice spray, head to toe…….


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## ceeaton (May 6, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Thanks! It is indeed our little piece of heaven here in the high desert southwest. Lots of irrigation required but it's worth it. It was the backdrop for our oldest daughters wedding a few years back.



Boy, could I rent out your "little piece of heaven" when my two daughters hopefully get married? Looks a little bigger than little to me. That setup for the wedding is perfect, you should be a caterer (maybe you already are).

Makes me want to take the rest of the day off and work on the yard. Opposite problem you have, no irrigation required but lot's of weed wacking and pruning required.


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## ibglowin (May 6, 2015)

Worked like a dog that whole Summer on the yard, house. Then SWMBO says I think we need new carpet 2 weeks before the wedding…… It turned out spectacular but not sure we could pull it off again LOL. The grapes were loaded that year and I even took the netting off just for the wedding and then got up early and re-netted the next day before the Robins got the word out. What we do for our kids! We did have it catered thank heavens and I supplied all the wine.


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## ColemanM (May 7, 2015)

I used to line the basket with a paint bag but like Mike, I got sprayed. Now I line the press, put about 4 inches of grapes in, then release the bag into the basket so it acts more as a sieve at the bottom than a net to contain.


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## geek (May 9, 2015)

Really good tips..!!


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## geek (May 9, 2015)

ibglowin said:


> Do not waste any time with a mesh bag. Total waste of time it will just slow you down and plug up immediately. Just dump the must into the press and let it pour right back out into your catch bucket. Keep pouring until your press is full or you run out of must. This is the very first step in the clearing process. Start your press and go slow. Let the press do the work. Ratchet a bit and wait a bit. rinse, repeat.



Mike,

the staves on the press are not close together, there's a gap.....so doesn't the juice start shooting all over through them?
Do you use something in the outer side to keep the juice in the press?


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## ibglowin (May 9, 2015)

The juice just runs right out the staves and into the catch pan and then out and into the bucket. Just the way it was designed to do. 99% of the seeds are on the bottom of the primary so if you are pulling out ~1 gallon at a time with a small bucket you won't see any seeds until the very end. By that time most of the juice is gone into your bucket. The more you do this the easier it gets and you realize this is just step one in a series of clearing steps.


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## geek (May 9, 2015)

I see.
What do you do in order not to disturb the thick sediment out of the primary?
In the fall, my friend and I did a small to medium press and removing the wine out of primary was a bit messy, we ended up not caring if the sludge came over to the press, the thing is that there were LOTS of skins that were not floating on top but everywhere AND mix at the bottom, so thick sediment made it to the mix in the press.


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## ibglowin (May 9, 2015)

Who cares if thick sediment (lees) makes it into the press! This is the FIRST step in the clearing process, not the last step. All that sediment all that stuff is what makes the wine taste better than your best kit wine ever. Let it come over, you will rack it off the next week or so after it all compacts.


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## sdelli (May 10, 2015)

We have a destemmer/Crusher that we set a 40 gallon Brute up at the nose of it. This catches all the stems coming out. We then setup a 5 gallon bucket at the exit and all the must fills the buckets. We dump the 5 gallon buckets in 5 gallon square bins and set them on a table. We give it a good look for anything that made it thru the crush we don't want and do a final pick of stems from it. We the dump them into the primary fermenters.


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## sdelli (May 10, 2015)

Here are some pictures of last year crush.....


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## JohnT (May 11, 2015)

sdelli,

Great pics! 

One complaint.. 

When I see all of those lugs of boxes, my arm aches just thinking about that hand crank!


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## ibglowin (May 11, 2015)

I noticed in the next to last pic that a whole lug was being tossed into the hopper but nobody was turning the crank!


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## sdelli (May 11, 2015)

Lol... Ya. Should upgrade to a motor! Stepped away from the crank to take the picture....


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