# sediment



## outbackmac (Nov 25, 2015)

I just went to open one of our Red wines and noticed sediment in the bottom of the bottle. the wine was degassed and aged in carboy for prob 4-5 months b4 bottling. Sorry this wine has been in the bottle for 6-8 months. Juice buckets


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## vacuumpumpman (Nov 25, 2015)

Is it tartric acid ?

Typically will fall.out if it gets colder

I will cold stabilize prior to bottling just for that reason


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## sour_grapes (Nov 25, 2015)

You did not explicitly ask a question, but this seems normal to me. It is likely "wine diamonds" -- aka potassium bitartrate aka cream of tartar.


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## Floandgary (Nov 25, 2015)

I do a lot of juice buckets. ALL will age in carboy for 12 months minimum, racking at 3 month intervals. It vary's with each bucket but I have gotten sediment as far along as the 9 month rackover. While a light sediment in the bottle is not cause for alarm, it goes to show that just a little more time in the carboy can eliminate it! Oh and just to mention it, there are always the clearing/fining agents if you are in a hurry to bottle.


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## ceeaton (Nov 25, 2015)

If you want anything more than guesses from the brains (not me) here, you need to give a little more information about the origin of the red wine. Was it a kit, was it a bucket, was it from fresh grapes, was it from frozen must?

Then, if it was a kit, what kit was it, did you follow the directions. Did you use the clarifiers after degassing, etc. Was the wine clear when you bottled it. Did you rack it to a separate carboy before bottling? 

If it wasn't a kit, did you use clarifiers like superklear or sparkoloid etc?

More information will produce better answers. Thanks!


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## GreginND (Nov 25, 2015)

He said it was a juice bucket.

It sounds perfectly normal. Most commercial red wines are ages for 1-2 years in barrels before bottling and they still form sediments over time. Could be many things - tartrates precipitating out; polyphenols polymerizing; etc. Plan on setting the bottle upright a day before serving and decanting it. It will be just fine.


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## ritsmon123 (Nov 28, 2015)

I would like to ask a question about a wine kit that I made the name of the wine kit is orchard breezing mist wine green apple delight.i have put
it into a glass carboy I have stabilized the wine and degassed it and I did not disturb the lees in the bottom is it common for the sediment to settle on the bottom again it said to leave it for two weeks for it to clear so should I leave it for the two weeks and then siphon it into another bucket to bottle it.


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## cpfan (Nov 28, 2015)

ritsmon123 said:


> I would like to ask a question about a wine kit that I made the name of the wine kit is orchard breezing mist wine green apple delight.i have put
> it into a glass carboy I have stabilized the wine and degassed it and I did not disturb the lees in the bottom is it common for the sediment to settle on the bottom again it said to leave it for two weeks for it to clear so should I leave it for the two weeks and then siphon it into another bucket to bottle it.


WOW what a run on difficult to understand sentence.

Yes it sounds absolutely normal, and yes that sounds like the right approach.

Steve


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## ceeaton (Nov 28, 2015)

GreginND said:


> He said it was a juice bucket.



Humm, must have been drinking, maybe some wine. I think I need one of those breathalyzers they put on cars, but on my computer instead so I can't login and post stupid posts.


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## GreginND (Nov 28, 2015)

ceeaton said:


> Humm, must have been drinking, maybe some wine. I think I need one of those breathalyzers they put on cars, but on my computer instead so I can't login and post stupid posts.



LOL, we've all been there. No way would I put one of those devices on my computer. I'd be shut off from the internets!!!


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## outbackmac (Dec 1, 2015)

I would like to thank those that took my post serious. before bottling i will and some fining agents to clear


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## outbackmac (Dec 20, 2015)

how far in advance of bottling do you recommend adding clearing agents?


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## heatherd (Dec 20, 2015)

I typically do it a week but suspect you could just do it a few days prior. Be sure to rack before bottling.


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## carlb (Dec 22, 2015)

I have been making juice buckets for a few years and have found that bulk aging at least 1 year rackings every 3 to 4 months gives me very good results. I also do a final racking a day or two before i am going to bottle. In most cases there is very little to no sediment in the carboy that i rack just before bottling but sometimes i find with Merlot i have a little dusting of very fine sediment .


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## Turock (Dec 22, 2015)

If you allow your reds from juice buckets to bulk age in the carboy for a year, you eliminate virtually all of the sediment. It takes quite sometime for all of the unstable components in a wine to drop out. Plus, your wine will taste better with more aging as the flavor comes to more complexity. Juice buckets are thin enough on taste--you only make this worse by not bulk aging long enough. And many reds can benefit from aging for 2,3,or 4 years.

Reds need no fining agents. It is very clear to me that if they are cloudy, you're not bulk aging, and you're bottling too soon.


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## Floandgary (Dec 22, 2015)

You (and anyone else reading) should be thoroughly convinced by now that a 1 year timeframe with scheduled rackovers appears to be what works to eliminate sediment and CO2 without additives.... PLUS what your wine will do to improve its character! Now there are some which will continue to drop sediments for a much longer time and you may be able to identify them by asking around, but if you prefer not to wait that long, a little sediment in the bottle is not a winemaking sin!!


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## JohnT (Dec 23, 2015)

Floandgary said:


> You (and anyone else reading) should be thoroughly convinced by now that a 1 year timeframe with scheduled rackovers appears to be what works to eliminate sediment and CO2 without additives.... PLUS what your wine will do to improve its character! Now there are some which will continue to drop sediments for a much longer time and you may be able to identify them by asking around, but if you prefer not to wait that long, a little sediment in the bottle is not a winemaking sin!!


 
+1 on what floangary said! I age my wines for at least 18 months up to 2 years. I never have a problem with either clarity or gas..


Another point is this (and I hope I do not sound harsh).. So what if you have some sediment in your bottle??? Who Cares??? The whole purpose of decanters is to give your wine a mini "racking" before you drink it (and also some aeration). 

If your wine tastes good, and you like it, don't mess with it any more. Just decant, enjoy, and remember to age longer next time...


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## sour_grapes (Dec 23, 2015)

JohnT said:


> I never have a problem with either clarity or gas.



Would the missus agree with these statements?


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## Turock (Dec 23, 2015)

The poster already made the comment that this wine was only aged for 4-5 months before bottling. This is not enough CLOSE to enough aging for even a white, let alone a red. It's plain to see that it was bottled too soon and one should expect sediment in this case.


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## JohnT (Dec 23, 2015)

sour_grapes said:


> Would the missus agree with these statements?


 
This is why she made me cut down on the bean dip!!!


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## outbackmac (Dec 26, 2015)

Before we bottling we do a few few rackovers. Only one of reds has the sediment in the bottle. But i am glad to know that nothing is wrong with the wines.


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## DryFly (Dec 27, 2015)

I am on day 22 of my first kit wine. I have racked the wine 5 times, however I still have quite a bit of sediment on the bottom of my glass carboy. I figured my wine would be clear at this stage. I have added the kmeta, sorbate, fining agents, and a vigorous 10 minutes of hand powered drill degassing. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?


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## Thig (Dec 27, 2015)

DryFly, racking 5 times in 22 days is excessive, you are going to oxidize it at that rate. A light dusting of sediment isn't going to hurt anything. And 22 days is not that long, that is still a very young wine. I would make sure the kmeta level is OK and then put it in a cool dark place and forget about it for 3 months.


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## NorCal (Dec 27, 2015)

DryFly said:


> I am on day 22 of my first kit wine. I have racked the wine 5 times, however I still have quite a bit of sediment on the bottom of my glass carboy. I figured my wine would be clear at this stage. I have added the kmeta, sorbate, fining agents, and a vigorous 10 minutes of hand powered drill degassing. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?



Often time with winemaking less is more. Once fermentaion(s) has completed, rack it full, add SO2, put it in a cold dark place and don't touch it for a few months.


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## DryFly (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks for the input. I believe I read on here that you want to keep the wine off the sediment. That is why I have racked so many times. When I have racked I have racked from carboy to primary and immediately back to carboy. Counting each as a racking. Picture of sediment prior to last racking is below. Second and third picture is carboy after racking, degassing and pouring sulfite, sorbate, and other fining agents.


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## David219 (Dec 27, 2015)

So, that I understand...

You racked from the primary into your (probably only?) carboy at what hydrometer reading?

Then you racked back into the primary container, then back into your carboy (rackings 2 and 3) at what hydrometer reading? 

After how many days, then, did you do rackings 4 and 5?

Usually primary fermentation takes 5-7 days, then "secondary" fermentation completes in another 7-14 days, which is verified by consistently stable hydrometer readings below 1.000 (usually below 0.996). You will find sediment drop for weeks...even months. I don't know that sediment at this time is as much of a problem as the dead yeast cell sediment in those first few weeks.


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## barbiek (Dec 27, 2015)

Dryfly take a reading, set it in a dark cool corner, FYI after you rack the 1st time off the initial gross lees you can wait till you get 1/2" of lees accumulated before you do another racking usually about a couple weeks to a month. After you rack for the 2nd time you'll want to add a lil kmeta. And you might want to take a look at your racking process fi: What temp is it at when you rack? Has it been moved recently? Do ya have the tip on the racking cane? Is it elevated? I usually set my carboy on the table and leave at room temp for 12 - 24 hrs before I do the racking this gives the lees some time to settle to the bottom also using the drill mounted de gasser can also introduce oxygen to your wine not to mention all the rackings that you've done I would stir a pinch of kmeta in it and leave it be good luck


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## DryFly (Dec 27, 2015)

RJS Austrailian Cab w/ grape pack 

12/5/15: Began fermentation. Added oak and grapes directly to must.
SG: 1.090

12/12/15: Racked to glass carboy. Removed oak and grape skins.
SG: 1.006

12/17/15: Racked to plastic bucket and back to carboy. I was trying to eliminate what I thought were the lees/dead yeast cells.
SG: .998

12/25/15: racked to plastic bucket and back to glass carboy. Added sulphite, sorbate, degassed with drill, added kieselsol and chitosan, degassed with drill.

The whole time the wine has hovered around 72 degrees, has been elevated, and in the dark. I have a tip in the racking cane, but used the spigot to go from plastic bucket to carboy twice.


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## barbiek (Dec 27, 2015)

Yea the racking on the 17th was not needed. ignore it for awhile make sure it's topped up. Did ya have the same reading for 3 days in a row? And what you thought was dead yeast cells was probably a lot of the oak as well


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## ceeaton (Dec 28, 2015)

DryFly said:


> RJS Austrailian Cab w/ grape pack
> 
> 12/25/15: racked to plastic bucket and back to glass carboy. Added sulphite, sorbate, degassed with drill, added kieselsol and chitosan, degassed with drill.



Now that you have added your clarifiers, you want them to settle down and compact a bit on the bottom. Ten or more days should be adequate. The whole idea is that it will help remove haze particles and some yeast and if it compacts really well, when you rack it next you will be good for about 3 more months. At that point I would rack it and add 1/4 tsp of Kmeta (or if you have a way to measure it, test the pH and there are tables that let you know what free sulfite level to aim for, depending on the pH). 

If you are short on carboys, now sounds like a great time to take a few bucks and invest in another carboy. That will eliminate the double move each time you rack it and introduce less oxygen to the process.


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