# MLF didn't start



## Cooper's Must (Mar 6, 2014)

Hello forum! I have an issue with my MLF. I added to much KMS to my wine before inoculation with MLF culture. The plan was to I inhibit spontaneous MLF because a previous spontaneous MLF yielded too much diacetyl (sp?). I've been hoping that the SO2 would eventually bind up and allow the malo to begin. So far, nothing. I'm starting to get concerned about diacetyl (sp?) And whether I have made my wine inhospitable to the MLF bacteria. I'm considering making another three gallons from Brehm fruit to dilute and then try again after blending the lots (roughly 7 gallons). Thoughts or advice are welcome. 

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## GreginND (Mar 6, 2014)

I presume KMS means potassium metabisulfite? I have never seen that abbreviation used for it. Anyway, have you tested your SO2 levels? Once they drop you will have a better chance of MLF going. You could also try to aerate it some to dissipate some of the SO2.


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## berrycrush (Mar 6, 2014)

How do you know the MLF is not going?


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## Cooper's Must (Mar 6, 2014)

MLF produces very fine co2 bubbles and pushes airlocks. I haven't retested SO2 or malic acid levels since inoculation to be sure but I'm pretty certain. 

Yes- kms=potassium metabisulfite

I'm hesitant to aerate because I have some really bright phenolics going on that I'm afraid to lose. Do you think I should re-inoculate our let it do it's thing after so2 drops? 

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## ibglowin (Mar 6, 2014)

First thing would be to test for free SO2 level and MLF completion via Chromatography. Can't help much without any data.


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## Cooper's Must (Mar 6, 2014)

Free so2 is around 40ppm and malic acid is above 500ppm. 

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## ibglowin (Mar 6, 2014)

And how did we arrive at these numbers?


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## GreginND (Mar 6, 2014)

Blending will also change your taste profiles. You could either just wait for the SO2 levels to drop over time and MLF to start. Or you could reduce SO2 with careful hydrogen peroxide additions.


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## Cooper's Must (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks Greg. That's pretty much the track I'm on. Wanted to bounce it off you guys

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## Cooper's Must (Mar 6, 2014)

Oooh I have my ways ib. What do you recommend?

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## ibglowin (Mar 6, 2014)

Not knowing you (only 8 post) its unclear on your experience. You could have lots or not so lots! LOL The cheap test they sell for SO2 and Malic etc (Accuvin etc.) are just not that accurate. Best way for SO2 is a Vinemetrica or an A/O Rig. Best way for MLF is Chromatography.

Oh and in case you don't know this, MLF can be humming along just fine without any real visible signs.


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## Cooper's Must (Mar 7, 2014)

Makes sense. I'm pretty experienced (6 harvests plus some frozen must in between) but my "lab" isn't where I invest a lot of my wine making budget so there is some wiggle room in my numbers. That said, I know it's possible but I've never seen a malo with no bubbles. First time for everything I guess but the more plausible scenario is that I killed my culture with my bone headed and heavy handed kms addition. We live and we learn. 

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## GreginND (Mar 7, 2014)

I would definitely recommend you get a MLF chromatography kit and check to see if it is happening.


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## sdelli (Mar 8, 2014)

I might have missed it but I didn't catch what culture you are trying to get started.... I would recommend VP41 since it can handle up to 60ppm as long as your ph is above 3.2


Sam


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## geek (Mar 11, 2014)

My first time I tried MLF last year with Chilean juice buckets (use Bacchus for the MLB) I was very stressed since I NEVER saw a sign of bubble either in the Malbec nor the Cab Sav, nada...

The chromatography kit helped me through the process and I was able to calm down and see the MLF progress.


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## Cooper's Must (Jun 11, 2014)

Update! After some patient but tense months of waiting. The so2 conditions and temp seem to have revived my mlb and the mlf has now completed. The tiny bubbles were a welcome sight and the flavor of the wine is great. Whew. 

Incidentally, the accuvin tests now have a 100% success rate for the mlb tests I have done. They have served to confirm that mlf is progressing although I will concede that the indicated ppm of malic acid may be difficult to state with a large degree of accuracy. It's plenty close enough for my purposes though. The results in the wine continue to speak for themselves.


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## sour_grapes (Jun 11, 2014)

Cooper's Must said:


> Incidentally, the accuvin tests now have a 100% success rate for the mlb tests I have done.



What are you comparing to (or, perhaps, what criterion do you use for "success")?


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## sdelli (Jun 12, 2014)

Hopefully you are testing a white wine.... Those strips are useless on reds. Cannot detect color change when starting with color!


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## Cooper's Must (Jun 12, 2014)

Success for me is detecting progress in the mlf. When the mlf visual signs subside, the tests invariably register the lowest malic acid concentration (30ppm). Now, the actual concentration is likely not dead on 30 ppm but it's not likely to be high enough to trigger subsequent flaws. I've been pretty happy with them.


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## sdelli (Jun 12, 2014)

Don't want to rain on this but.... I just took a class on mlf. Bubbles are no indication if it is going.... Or done.


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## Cooper's Must (Jun 13, 2014)

Agree. Can't deny that they are there during mlf. Not universal which is why I use the test.


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## Calamity Cellars (Jun 14, 2014)

I love the accuvin strips for malic acid on my red wines. While I agree that the accuracy of the numbers may (or may not ) be suspect I have complete faith that when they say it's gone that it is gone. Since there is no need to know how much malic you have just that it is gone it seems to me this inexpensive, non-toxic, and foolproof test is the perfect solution. I know the Heisenberg in all of us probably likes the mad scientist feel of the chromatography method but it's not for me. On a test where accuracy is important like so2 I do not use the accuvin strips. 


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## knockabout (Jun 16, 2014)

sdelli said:


> Don't want to rain on this but.... I just took a class on mlf. Bubbles are no indication if it is going.... Or done.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I'd love to take a class on mlf. Where did you take this class?


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