# Anyone have any cynthiana seeds?



## efBobby (Dec 4, 2019)

I am hoping to purchase a handful maybe 20 or so. I am curious about the white cynthiana offspring and wish to grow a couple


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## cmason1957 (Dec 4, 2019)

Generally seeds of grapes plants don't grow. You need cuttings from the vines.


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## efBobby (Dec 4, 2019)

The seeds off the cynthiana will bc it is documented that a good portion of the offspring are blanc


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## mainshipfred (Dec 4, 2019)

I tried to find like information with no luck. Can you forward the link? Also, grape vines are gendered and male plants will not produce fruit. A cutting will assure you are getting a vine that is hermaphroditic.


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## efBobby (Dec 4, 2019)

True but a clone will not be a blanc tho.....lemme see what I can find.


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## efBobby (Dec 4, 2019)

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.694.6205&rep=rep1&type=pdf


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## hbd_Indy (Dec 5, 2019)

A problem is that Cynthiana/Norton is itself a hybrid. You could select offspring that give white wine grapes but the set of offspring will differ in other ways from each other. Each plant In this generation would essentially be a different clone. If you could get cuttings from someone who had “white cynthiana” then you wouldn’t need to do the years of sorting out the clones grown from seeds.


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## efBobby (Dec 7, 2019)

If there were white cynthiana available I wouldn't be asking for seeds.

I just want to grow a white cynthiana to try them. Sorting through seedlings is a waste of time.

The reason there aren't any white cynthiana available is a). they do not inherit the legendary resistance that cynthiana is known for and b). The bunches are kinda weak.

So being that they are not commercially viable the only way to get one is to grow one.


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## hbd_Indy (Dec 7, 2019)

Sorting through seedlings is time consuming. That’s the reason it’s not easy to breed new grape varieties.


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## hbd_Indy (Dec 7, 2019)

Double A sells individual Norton vines for $9 plus shipping. You might get a bit of fruit in their second year of growth. Otherwise you could try a winery that makes Norton (Stone Hill in Missouri or Chrysalis in Virginia come to mind) to send you seeds now or next fall.


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## efBobby (Dec 29, 2019)

Hey thanks Indy!


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## treesaver (Feb 5, 2020)

Bobby, are you still looking for seeds? I have quite a few bunches that were left behind this past season, and are still hanging on the vines. I would think that nature would have stratified them, hanging in the cold weather. These are Norton/cynthiana vines, but I have no idea if you can grow white ones from them! Only thing it would cost you is the mailing costs. If you ever make it happen, I would love to get a cutting!


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## efBobby (Feb 5, 2020)

Yes, that would be great. 

I contacted chrysalis and the reply I rcd was it was being forwarded to their wine maker....the end. Lol. 

I didn't see any seeds on double a's site.

From the sources I read. They say 70% will germinate into blancs so that shouldn't be an issue. And yes if the info is correct you can have entire plants; I just want 1 or 2.
BUT other than curiousity if you plan to vinify it then it will need to be grafted onto a root stock.

The blanc tends to inherit most of the genes from the vinifera parent so it isn't resistant like the Norton....according to the info I have anyway. 

It will be an exciting venture bc the blanc was never really explored it seems. Who's to say the negative characteristics of the ones studied are indicative to all of them? 

Mutations do happen after all! 

To my knowledge no one ever tried to vinify it; mainly the accounts of angry vineyard owners from the 1800's yanking them out of the ground bc they were expecting something more similar to the original/hoping for a shortcut around the expense of trying to propagate cynthiana. 

Which makes me curious......if the blanc favors the vinifera parentage then would it not be able to propagate more easily? Then what of its progeny? 

Would they flip flop back to the aestivalis/red? If so, then provided the flavor is good would exist a work around for the propagation issue. 

Cold stratified to boot, I need to go purchase a lottery ticket or something! 

I'll pm shortly, many thanks!


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## efBobby (Feb 15, 2020)

Seeds rcd. Many thanks! I'll keep you posted! Hopefully the blancs will look a little dissimilar once established.


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