# Stainless steel vessel OK for extracting juice?



## earthkitten (Sep 28, 2007)

Hello, 


This is my first post on this forum, yay!


I've searched this forum for similar subject matter, but didn't find answers....so I apologize if I'm asking a question that's already been addressed....


I'll keep this as uncomplicated as possible:


I'm making wine for the first time and I'm sure most folks on this forum would shudder at my methods....hehehe.....but basically I have two questions. 


One: My recipe calls for a non-metal container to be used on the stove to extract the juice from grapes, something such as an enamel-canner. I don't have a very good enamel-canner, it's quite old and rusty. I do, however, have two large stainless steel stockpots...can I use these, or will this do something adverse to my juice?


Second: I really don't want to use sodium metabisulphites, or whatever those chemicals are called. I may be naive, but is there something else I can sanitize with that is less.....scary? Part of my reason is just personal, but also I have a family member I'd like to share my wine with that is deathly allergic to the stuff. For some reason, even bleach (**blech!**) doesn't give me the willies like sulphites do. But maybe there's somethingless toxic? I'm even willing to give up a certain amount of my hooch to the capricious wine faeries in exchange for something less toxic (meaning: even if some of my wine turns to vinegar, as long as I get SOME wine out of it, I'll be a very happy camper....)


Opinions would be welcome on these two subjects. 


Thanks, 
Earthkitty



*Edited by: earthkitten *


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## grapeman (Sep 28, 2007)

I'llcan helpyou with your first question- in short stainless steel pots are fine- aluminum is a no-no. If your pots are SS,they work great. Large volume storage vessels are made out of stainless-steel and are used all the time.


Your second question isa bitcontroversial. In short, I use sulfites and am allergic to sulfur and sulpha drugs as is my sister who also makes and drinks wine. The quantities we use are smaller than most commercial wineries and cause us no problems. I like many others get headaches from a lot of commercial wines, but never from my own. You will never find a wine truly free of all sufites since it is a byproduct of fermentation. That said, wine can be and is made without additions of sulfites. You can definitely clean and sanitize your equipment with alternatives. The wine will even keep for a while with nothing added because you have alcohol in it to protect it. Just don't expect to age for 3 years without a little addition.




Good luck and welcome to the forum and may all your winemaking bring you much enjoyment.


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## jobe05 (Sep 28, 2007)

EarthKitty:

Welcome to the forum. If you have been reading, you would know that most of the intelligent and knowledgeable board members are out letting their hair down, drinking and making total fools of themselves........ at Winestock 2007






So your stuck with whats left here holding down the fort till Monday.........

I would highly recommend the stainless steel pot, and all utensils should be as well. Aluminum will impart flavors and plastic or wooden utensils can harbor germs in scratched areas and what not.

I have, on many occasions have not used anything to sanitize with. I use an equivalent to Oxyclean (B-Brite) to clean everything with, then use very hot water to soak the utensils. I too agree, the less chemicals the better. I have been doing this for almost 3 years without incident.

What kind of wine are you making?

Welcome to the board.


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## grapeman (Sep 28, 2007)

Well thanks, Jobe. So I'm one of the less intelligent, less knowledgeable leftover board member huh? My feelings are hurt





























I will try to take up some of the slack, but don't know if I can manage! I'm just kidding by the way. *Edited by: appleman *


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## jobe05 (Sep 28, 2007)

appleman said:


> Well thanks, Jobe. So I'm one of the less intelligent, less knowledgeable leftover board member huh? My feelings are hurt



Your not at Winestock!




appleman said:


> I will try to take up some of the slack, but don't know if I can manage!
> I was expecting a response from Wade appleman, forgot that you were still here till after I hit the post button and seen your response.
> 
> OK......... We'll but you thought the test this weekend!
> *Edited by: appleman *


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## earthkitten (Sep 28, 2007)

Wow, quick responses....thanks so much!

Good to know about the 'ss', now I can go ahead with confidence...hurrah!


Unfortunately, it is my grandmother that is allergic, and she gets very very sick on minute amounts. She can't even eat lettuce from the supermarket, or drink any commercial wines, or she's up barfing all night. The amount used to sanitize the bottles will make her sick, not just additive-amounts.


I am attempting to make red wine with some grapes on my property that 'appear' to be wine grapes...heheheh.....I am blessed with many, many old vines growing fantastic grapes almost completely without any help from me. All I do is cut them back to the first leaf after a bunch, about4 times a summer. They seem to thrive if I do this.


There are concords (I've enjoyed more jelly than I can personally eat for the last couple of years...), a white variety, a red table-variety, and these mystery grapes that have basically gone to waste for the last 5 years, UNTIL NOW! I finally decided to get off my butt, and not let the birds have them this year....heheh....


So I'm not sure what I'll get, if any wine at all. They are blue-black, very small, tight clusters of grapes the size of ball-bearings. Big seeds. Hopefully I'll get something I can drink, and if not....something that'll taste good on a salad. 


Thanks for your help...I'm sure I'll have more questions as I plug away.


Earthkitty


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## Wade E (Sep 28, 2007)

I love you to Jobe!!!!!!!!!!!



Just kidding. Welcome earthkitty and we like to have a lot of fun here while learning. Stainless is what commercial wineries use as it is impermeable and less fragile then glass. Please be careful giving it to your grandma if she is that allergic to sulfates, as appleman said, SO2 is a byproduct of fermentation.


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## bovinewines (Sep 28, 2007)

Do you have any pictures of these vines as in close ups of the leaves and fruit?


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## Wade E (Sep 28, 2007)

Yes there are some very smart people on this site and can probably tell you what varietal species they are and when would be the best time to pick them or what else to do with them.


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## earthkitten (Sep 28, 2007)

Oh boy! I'll see what I can do....gotta dig out my digital camera. Shoot, I HOPE they're ready, I picked most of them today already....hehehe.....


Haven't cooked them up yet....I'll post a photo asap.


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## Wade E (Sep 28, 2007)




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## earthkitten (Sep 30, 2007)

Well, sorry...couldn't upload these images directly. Here's a link to my photo album on Photobucket of my grapes. My close-up's kind of crappy, and I put my boyfriend's hand in pic for scale.


Anything anyone would be able to tell me about them would be wonderful.






http://s234.photobucket.com/albums/ee265/earthkitten/


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## earthkitten (Sep 30, 2007)

Mmmmm....maybe this'll work better....I don't know what the heck I'm doin!


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## Wade E (Sep 30, 2007)

Great pic there, have to wait for the grape pros to chime in here.


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## Mike777 (Oct 2, 2007)

Leaf shape and color suggest Pinot Noir without the splitting of the leaf the best this little book can match is pinot.

Gamay or Grenache if the berrie were lighter in color.


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## grapeman (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't believe it would be any of those with you being from Canada, but maybe if you are in lower Ottawa. Those are VInifera varieties and without care, they would probably have winter killed. My guess would be one of the wild grapes of the area, but could be a hybrid planted by someone. If it works well for wine, you don't really need to know the exact variety. Now go make the wine!


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## jobe05 (Oct 2, 2007)

I would have to guess that you have a wild Grape variety there EarthKitty. I am primarily guessing that due to the vine cover shown in the picture, Perhaps Appleman, our resident fine wine vine guy could take another look at that photo and see if he agrees. Either way, I agree............. Get making that wine!</font>
*Edited by: jobe05 *


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## grapeman (Oct 2, 2007)

I agree Jobe. I still think they are probably one of hundreds of types of wild grapes. Some can be very good as JWMinnesota has shown. I was saying that the varieties Mike was stating are Vinifera and likely wouldn't have survived. And Jobe, check your PM Inbox.


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## earthkitten (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi folks!
Thank you for your input! I didn't think anyone had seen these....my posting skills leave much to be desired...hehehe....


This vine is very old, and was deliberately planted, I'm sure....the vine is probably 50 feet long at least! (it's creeping up into my hazelnut tree above the truck in the driveway, if you can see in the pic...) So I'm not sure if it would be wild, if you mean what I think...(?).....I'm not sure about Vinifera, or whatever....
But it doesn't really get that cold here during winter. I'm right on the Washington border, and it rarely freezes very deeply here....just VERY wet weather. Maybe this helps?


Incidentally, my 4-5 gallons of grape juice are bubbling away as we speak.  I was too excited, and couldn't wait...hehehe....we'll see if I get vino, or vinegar!


Cheers!
Earthkitty


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## grapeman (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks for the extra photos. Since you are from the West, they could be alsmost anything. They sure resemble a cultivated grape in those pictures- just untended for a while. Prune them back some next eyar to get under control.


Glad your brew got going for you.


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## dfwwino (Oct 3, 2007)

earthkitten said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> Second: I really don't want to use sodium metabisulphites, or whatever those chemicals are called. I may be naive, but is there something else I can sanitize with that is less.....scary? Part of my reason is just personal, but also I have a family member I'd like to share my wine with that is deathly allergic to the stuff. For some reason, even bleach (**blech!**) doesn't give me the willies like sulphites do. But maybe there's somethingless toxic? I'm even willing to give up a certain amount of my hooch to the capricious wine faeries in exchange for something less toxic (meaning: even if some of my wine turns to vinegar, as long as I get SOME wine out of it, I'll be a very happy camper....)




For sanitizing purposes, you could substitute Iodophor Sanitzer for sulfites, which is used by brewers and the dairy industry to sanitize equipment. With my brewing background, I use it and it is much simpler and quicker. Iodophor only requires two minutes of contact time to sanitize, whereas sulfites require 15 minutess. I don't know why more winemakers don't use it. I just add a few squirts out of my bottle to five gallons of water and let it sit for a few minutes. The only problem is it does stain hoses and fermenters, but the stain residue is not harmful. 


Like the others said, you cannot avoid sulfites in wine as it is a byproduct of fermentation. You could skip adding more sulfites, but you need to be aware you have a high risk of spoilage and will need to drink your wine within months after production rather than the preferred years. Sulfites prevent spoilage while aging. While some commercial wineries do not add sulfites, they have extremely good filtration systems that sterile filter the wine to remove microbial bacteria. If you choose this route, you could buy a membrane filtration system to sterile filter. Daniel Pambianchi wrote an article about membrane filtration in a recent article of Winemaker Magazine. If you are new to the hobby, I would use the sulfites at recommended levels and drink the wine yourself. As for your family member who is deathly allergic, the person should either avoid wine or give the wines labelled "sulfite-free" a try, though the person should realize that simply means no additional sulfites were added other than sulfite produced by fermentation. So there might still be a risk of an allergic reaction. *Edited by: dfwwino *


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## dfwwino (Oct 3, 2007)

appleman said:


> I'llcan helpyou with your first question- in short stainless steel pots are fine- aluminum is a no-no.




When I first began brewing beer, I heard the same advice, never use aluminum to brew beer because it can produce off flavors and supposedly leaves aluminum compounds in the beer. But I recently listened to a podcast interview of John Palmer, author of "How to Brew Beer," and he recommended using an aluminum kettle rather than stainless steel as aluminum was a better heat conductor and more recent scientific studies indicate that the concern about aluminum was false. Does anyone have any more information about this issue?*Edited by: dfwwino *


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## grapeman (Oct 3, 2007)

dfwwino:
I'm only repeating the commonly held belief about aluminum. I use an aluminum roasting pan to catch the juice from my press! So do as I say, don't do as I do.





This article is from the Beer and Other Brewing FAQ, by Kurt Swanson [email protected] with numerous contributions by others.



<H1>Should I avoid aluminum brewpots?</H1>


There has been a good deal of "discussion" as to whether or not the
use of aluminum in brewing contributes to Alzheimer's disease. Thanks
to Oliver Weatherbee for providing to following:

Aluminum has NOT been linked to Alzheimer's disease. The following is
taken from "Frequently Asked Questions About Neurological Problems" at
The Department of Neurological Surgery of The Cleveland Clinic
Foundation (http://www.neus.ccf.org/patients/faq.html):

"There is little support for the theory that aluminum causes
Alzheimer's disease, the most common cause of dementia in the United
States. The exact cause of this disease is unknown, although the risk
of Alzheimer's is higher when there is a family history of this
disease.

Workers exposed to high levels of aluminum in industrial environments
have no increased incidence of Alzheimer's disease. Furthermore,
careful studies to date have not shown an increased aluminum
concentration in the brains of Alzheimer's disease patients.

Since there is no convincing evidence linking aluminum toxicity with
Alzheimer's disease, you need not worry about exposure to aluminum in
cooking utensils."

Furthermore, Brewing Techniques (Jan/Feb '95) had an article on a
parallel brew experiment using an aluminum brewpot and a stainless.
Laboratory analysis showed that there was no significant difference in
trace aluminum levels between batches. They also pointed out that most
of the Al you digest is from your food and water. And for that matter,
many medical people consider copper a bigger health risk.

As for off flavors, IF this happens (hearsay IMO), it is probably the
result of the brewer scrubbing the oxidation layer of the pot during
cleaning. Don't scrub, use a soft cloth or sponge and non-abrasive
cleaner. This is one of the reasons Al is not used much commercially,
its not caustic cleaner friendly.



Be careful, it has been scientifically proven that "living contributes to your death"!


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