# My first attempt at red wine with grapes



## Buehler91 (Oct 21, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm going to attempt my first red wine with MLF.
I don't have a crusher/destemmer yet so I figure it will be best to try frozen buckets first.

I've decided to do a Pinot Noir (2 buckets) from Wine grapes direct and I have 2 choices:

2012 PINOT NOIR
Sonoma Coast, Price Family Vineyards
$135 per 5 gallon pail
Brix: 24.8
pH: 3.9
TA: .55


2013 PINOT NOIR
Sonoma Coast, Durell Vineyard, Upper Blocks
$175 per 5 gallon pail
Brix: 24.5
pH: 3.50
TA: .58


Price is not a determining factor for me, so with that being said:

1. Which would you choose?
2. What kind of yeast would you use?
3. What kind of MLB?
4. Oak?


What kind of numbers are "ideal" for a Pinot Noir?

Any help will be appreciated, just trying to make sure I get all my ducks in a row.


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## acorn (Oct 21, 2014)

If price is not a problem, it seems to me that the 2013 one is a better choice because it will need less adjustment in terms of acidity and will be better protected from bacterial spoilage in the long run.

As for the yeast, you can use either Lalvin 71B-1122, or Red Star Pasteur Red. 

I will let the more experienced wine makers have a go at recommending the MLB and oak, but I would only say that if you intend to age it on oak, it is better to get it in the form of staves or cubes, because chips and powder can impart too harsh of a flavor that is difficult to control, especially since Pinot Noir is not a full-bodied wine like Cabernet or Syrah.


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## ColemanM (Oct 21, 2014)

I have ordered from this company before and would highly recommend them!! Michael Crews will ask if you would like the nutrients etc with your order. They are free and will come with exactly the amount of tartaric acid to get the must in line with where I'm guessing he has made it. It will come with oak cubes if needed. Go ferm fermaid k and pectic enzymes and yeast. Great package!!! Can't help you on the best MLB to get though just know what comes in the package. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## Buehler91 (Oct 21, 2014)

ColemanM said:


> I have ordered from this company before and would highly recommend them!! Michael Crews will ask if you would like the nutrients etc with your order. They are free and will come with exactly the amount of tartaric acid to get the must in line with where I'm guessing he has made it. It will come with oak cubes if needed. Go ferm fermaid k and pectic enzymes and yeast. Great package!!! Can't help you on the best MLB to get though just know what comes in the package.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making



I got the Chenin Blanc from them this july and its amazingly good already, thats why i figured I'd go with them again. just trying to learn a little more before I order.


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## sdelli (Oct 21, 2014)

Buehler91 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Durell Vineyard, RC-212 yeast with VP-41 MLF


Sam


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## Treeman (Oct 21, 2014)

There are several ways to go with the fermentation. What characteristics do you like most in a commercial pinot noir? 


Cheers!


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## ibglowin (Oct 21, 2014)

2012 was a good year but the bucket is going on a couple years old now. You can fix the numbers easily with some acid additions for sure. You got $$ to burn and want something only a year old LOL go with the 2013 bucket. 

Yeast go with BM45, RP15, GRE or even RC212.


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## Buehler91 (Oct 22, 2014)

Treeman said:


> There are several ways to go with the fermentation. What characteristics do you like most in a commercial pinot noir?
> 
> 
> Cheers!



I like it kinda of fruity with a hint of oak


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## JohnT (Oct 22, 2014)

I also vote for the 2013. The grapes seem to be a little less ripe (old) and need less adjustment. 

I would go with RC212 yeast, your MLB of choice, and nice oak staves (medium toast / Hungarian)


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## Treeman (Oct 22, 2014)

Buehler91 said:


> I like it kinda of fruity with a hint of oak




Alot of good suggestions here. I think the only thing to add would be consider splitting the ferment into 2-3 fermenters each with a different yeast. There are some suggestions for yeast characteristics here http://www.lallemandwine.us/cellar/pinot_noir.php. Keep the temps below 70 if you want to emphasize the fruit, and Remove any stem jacks as it thaws. I would go with Stavin french oak, medium toast.

I prefer a bigger style of pinot with some tannins, and this year I'm splitting my 3 lugs of WA pinot between AMH, RC212, and BM4x4 each with 10g of french oak chips, 1.5g lallyzyme, 1.7 g booster rouge, and 2.5 g optired. 


Cheers!


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## Treeman (Oct 27, 2014)

One more suggestion is to pick up a 6gal kit to do a second run on your pinot skins. 

I've used WE Bergameis and am trying a WE Pinot this year as well. After pressing your fermented grapes, add the kit diluted to 23-24 brix with water to the skins. It should start fermenting without adding any more yeast or nutrient. You'll be surprised how much extra character your 2nd run picks up from the skins, and it will be ready to drink sooner than the fresh grapes.


Cheers!


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## syncnite (Oct 28, 2014)

I've only made wine from fresh fruit and from frozen must from these guys. They get top notch fruit. I'm currently aging some Durell Chard that I fermented this summer and it's tasting amazing. Will get their Zin and Syrah this winter, since I always crush fresh Pinot Noir grapes in the Fall. 


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making


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## Buehler91 (Oct 28, 2014)

I also ordered the Durrell Chard, I couldn't help myself.


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## Buehler91 (Oct 28, 2014)

Treeman said:


> Alot of good suggestions here. I think the only thing to add would be consider splitting the ferment into 2-3 fermenters each with a different yeast. There are some suggestions for yeast characteristics here http://www.lallemandwine.us/cellar/pinot_noir.php. Keep the temps below 70 if you want to emphasize the fruit, and Remove any stem jacks as it thaws. I would go with Stavin french oak, medium toast.
> 
> I prefer a bigger style of pinot with some tannins, and this year I'm splitting my 3 lugs of WA pinot between AMH, RC212, and BM4x4 each with 10g of french oak chips, 1.5g lallyzyme, 1.7 g booster rouge, and 2.5 g optired.
> 
> ...



I will be splitting it into 2 batches, since I didn't double click when I ordered
So I'm going to go with 2 types of yeast. 
I Think it comes with rc212 then ill go with BM4x4 for the other batch. 
Now I'm wondering what it would be like if I do one batch cool ferment and the other "hotter" 
Then blend the 2.
Or is that kind of nutty?


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## seth8530 (Oct 29, 2014)

Might be a little bit late to interject this comment, buy why not get some frozen must or white juice from this years harvest from M&M?


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## Buehler91 (Oct 29, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Might be a little bit late to interject this comment, buy why not get some frozen must or white juice from this years harvest from M&M?



I've never used M&M just ordered from winegrapes direct so far with excellent results.

Though looking through their site..the sangiovese has me thinking....


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## seth8530 (Oct 29, 2014)

Yeah, they have good product and their service is really good. You can even get fresh grapes from them if that is your thing.


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## Boatboy24 (Oct 29, 2014)

Presque Isle is offering frozen Spanish must/juice and it looks like they might ship, but they ask that you call about it. I haven't dealt with either, but have heard very good things about M&M and winegrapesdirect as well.


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## Treeman (Oct 29, 2014)

Buehler91 said:


> I will be splitting it into 2 batches, since I didn't double click when I ordered
> 
> So I'm going to go with 2 types of yeast.
> 
> ...




Not nutty to me! I have rubbermaid bins filled with water and a heat source in my basement, and put my fermenters (5 gal buckets) right in.

Going hotter might reduce your fruit forward character, but should give better color and skin extraction. Either yeast can go warmer, but both also can produce some H2S if they get stressed out. I would start these sometime when you can baby sit them over 4-5 days with frequent punchdowns, and have some complex yeast nutrient ready if they start to complain by making H2S.


Cheers!


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## Buehler91 (Oct 31, 2014)

Turns out they sent Amh for yeast after reading up on it I think I'll like the flavor profile. 
I'm going to go with the vp41 for MLB with this.


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## asterof (Oct 31, 2014)

*How Many Lbs does it take*

How many lbs of red grapes does it take to make a six gallon batch
I am watching this thread because my next batch is from fresh grapes
Thanks


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## cmason1957 (Oct 31, 2014)

I always assume 100 lbs (3 lugs or so) to make a 6 gallon batch. That generally really makes something more like 7 gallons. It gives you some for topping off.


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## Buehler91 (Dec 2, 2014)

I've read on the manufacturers site that AMH has a long lagtime. 
I made 2 different starter batches, one with RC212 and the other with AMH. 
The RC212 is going strong after 24 hours. In 5gal of must. 
The AMH isn't doing anything yet. In the other 5gal of must. 
Both were rehyxrated the same Way with goferm. 
At first sign of fermentation I add 2.5g of fermaid K to 5gal of must. 
I saw a very slight ferment with the AMH and added fermaid K as Usual and stirred in. 
I figured the temp was low(67) so raised to 70 degrees f .
If I don't see any activity by morning should I just mix in my already fermenting RC212? Or should I retry the AMH?


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## seth8530 (Dec 2, 2014)

I would give it a bit more time. How much SO2 did you add?


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## Buehler91 (Dec 2, 2014)

1/4 tsp on. 11/30.

Thanks for the superfast reply


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## seth8530 (Dec 2, 2014)

Yeah, just be patient. Give it another day and see what happens. What is the temperature at?


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## Buehler91 (Dec 2, 2014)

It is at 71deg


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## seth8530 (Dec 3, 2014)

Yeah, just give it some time.


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## Treeman (Dec 3, 2014)

seth8530 said:


> Yeah, just give it some time.




+1. First time I used AMH this season and the AMH pinot ferment was a day behind my RC-212 in getting started, and Ended up 2-days longer to finish.


Cheers!


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## Buehler91 (Dec 3, 2014)

We have lift off!


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## seth8530 (Dec 3, 2014)

Great, now just make sure you have a good nutrient regimen.


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## Buehler91 (Dec 3, 2014)

If there is one thing that I have learned here it is the use of nutrients!


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## nicklausjames (Dec 4, 2014)

Yes I also learned to use nutrients here, the hard way after a major h2s issue I'm still dealing with.


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