# For all you sanitization freaks!



## shanek17 (Aug 3, 2012)

i found this video awhile ago and found it interesting. its good to see things from another point of view. this video features bannana brewing in africa! i find it cool how relaxed they are with their procedures and their brewing beer which is generally lower alcohol, which means it would probably spoil before a high alcohol percent wine. i dont know for sure the percentage they are making but w.e their method is , it appears to be working!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fb-JwtE4Lw&feature=youtube_gdata_player


I have also heard these things from various sources on alcohol. 

Alcohol used to be drank by our ancestors frequently, as it was often times safer to drink than water. Alcohol naturally has alcohol in it which keeps it clean. There are also other specific ingredients that can be added to help preserve and keep the integrity of the beer or wine, Such as adding hops to the beer. Honey also has strong integrity as it can last thousands of years on its own without spoiling.


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## deboard (Aug 3, 2012)

I think good sanitation really just guarantees a better chance of success. We certainly don't know what this banana stuff tastes like. 

But in a way you have a point, here's a video from a winery showing Vignole harvesting and pressing at a winery in MO. At the end a toddler is playing in the grape juice coming out of the press. And we all know toddlers are never sanitary. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g2nnoimkcU&list=UU_3Ej87TsQ8Y5Y-mSzYS8Rw&index=6&feature=plcp[/ame]

But I bet a hefty dose of k-meta was given after it was all said and done.


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## dmulligan (Aug 5, 2012)

deboard said:


> But I bet a hefty dose of k-meta was given after it was all said and done.



To the toddler?


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## deboard (Aug 5, 2012)

dmulligan said:


> To the toddler?



hehe, I'm not sure even k-meta could help sanitize a toddler.


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## dmulligan (Aug 5, 2012)

deboard said:


> hehe, I'm not sure even k-meta could help sanitize a toddler.



No More Tears works great as a cleanser but not a sanitizer.


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## shanek17 (Aug 16, 2012)

When I began home brewing I realized sanitization is the biggest thing in this hobby so it made sense to me to see both sides of the story. So I began researching about sanitary brewing on the internet and the majority if not all of websites are about buying and using such and such chemical and the importance of using them to sanitize. This can be overwhelming for new homebrewers, it seems at every turn they are told SANTIZE SANITIZE AND SANITIZE! and this can leave them feeling like there taking care of a little sick baby. But very few people talk about whats already available to protect. instead we hear the usual endorsed chemical sanitization lecture. 

I personally feel I have learnt alot about the sanitizing products that I can buy, so now I am interested in learning more about natures strength. We make nature intended beverages so why not learn more about alcohol and nature and how it works and what it offers. That way I can make informed decisions about my practice and sanitization methods. 

So, What I am trying to get across here is to embrance natures protection and our own methods of protection, and find a balance in homebrewing. If anyone has any information about homebrewing how they naturally keep from spoilage PLEASE DO SO, it makes for a good read!


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## slh (Aug 27, 2012)

This certainly addresses a question I have. I've been making fruit wines for about 18 months now in 5 gallon batches (cranberry, rhubarb, one kit merlot, pineapple, blackberry and skeeter pee). With all concerned I seem to taste a bit of the sanitizer at bottling time and several months later. All along I've been thinking they were too immature to really taste great (we do have a tendancy to crack a few bottles early on). However, today I was handling the sanitizer (Iodophor solution) and was noting how similar it smelled compared to how a bottle of my blackberry wine I tasted yesterday. (I bottled it in March of this year after 4 months of carboy/racking time)

As an additional note, I usually add a small amount of K-meta (1/16 tsp per gallon) and potassium sorbate (up to 1/2 tsp per gallon of wine, depending on back-sweetening) at bottling time. Could these be what I'm tasting? 

So, my question is: "how do you experts stabilize your wine before bottling and how to do process your bottles?". My procedure is: wash in colorless, scentless dish detergent, rinse, put through the dishwasher all by themselves, and then rinse with Iodophor (1 capful--aka a shy tablespoon-- per 2-1/2 gallons of cool water) and let drain on a bottle rack.

Overall, my wines are very drinkable, taste fresh and are nice and clear. But, this is one obstacle I definitely want to overcome


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## deboard (Aug 28, 2012)

No experience with Iodophor, but I have overdosed a wine with k-meta, and I could definitely taste it, whereas I don't normally. I'd say if you can't taste k-meta in store bought wines, then you won't taste it in yours unless you use too much. 

My k-meta says to use 1/8tsp for 3 gallons, so that's a little less than 1/16tsp per gallon, but not too far off. Really, with k-meta you're shooting for a certain ppm (parts per million) in your wine to prevent oxidation. This can be maintained by testing (although that is a little expensive), or you can do like most of us and add according to the expected loss each racking. I actually add 1/8tsp per 3 gallons the first time, then 1/16 the next time, 1/32 the next racking, but I usually go back up to at least 1/16 per 3 gallons before I bottle, maybe even the full 1/8 if it's something I want to age. 

I don't use potassium sorbate unless I am backsweetening, if it's dry you don't need it. But occasionally I get a wine where I think I can taste the sorbate. Maybe it's because I don't particularly like sweet wines though.


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## GreginND (Aug 28, 2012)

Ah, the sanitation issue. Let's look at this with some common sense.

Wine has a high enough alcohol and high enough acid that bacteria that is harmful to humans cannot survive. There are bacteria that can damage the wine. But judicious use of SO2 levels in the wine will keep them at bay. Wine is very forgiving. It is good practice to maintain adequate SO2 levels before fermentation to keep back natural weaker yeasts and microbes - and after fermentation to keep spoilage bacteria in check.

What kills me is how over the top people go with sanitation that every thing needs to be plunged into sanitizer solution before it touches the wine. Not necessarily a bad practice but perhaps over kill. In my humble opinion, if you have maintained your wine properly, AND used CLEAN utensils and equipment, there should be no problem. Nothing is ever sterile, only sanitary. Sanitary does not mean doused with sulfites or iodophore. Sanitary means clean.

I always clean my bottles, carboys, equipment, etc. with hot soapy water. Sometimes I will use a little bit of bleach water for cleaning and then wash and rinse well. Some items like carboys I'm racking into will get a sulfite rinse if I think it has been sitting too long. But mostly I just use clean equipment. I've never had a problem with spoilage in over 12 years. 

Think about how wine is made. You don't soak all your grapes in sulfite solution before you crush and destem? Why do you need to rinse a clean spoon that you will stir it with?

Again, I'm not saying you should be lax about sanitation. Clean your equipment and let it dry thoroughly. Keep your work area spotless. Use chemical sanitizers judiciously. Protect your wine with adequate SO2 levels.


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## BobF (Aug 28, 2012)

Sanitation is insurance. "Buy" as much insurance as you think you need.

For me, the expense and/or effort required is considerable; worthy of a bit of insurance.

I hate cleaning and niggling around with sanitation. Just like I hate betting the insurance agent that I'll die, but hoping s/he wins the bet ;-)


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## GreginND (Aug 28, 2012)

BobF said:


> Sanitation is insurance. "Buy" as much insurance as you think you need.
> 
> For me, the expense and/or effort required is considerable; worthy of a bit of insurance.
> 
> I hate cleaning and niggling around with sanitation. Just like I hate betting the insurance agent that I'll die, but hoping s/he wins the bet ;-)



Again, sanitation is about CLEAN, not about dousing everything with chemicals. I've seen too many over zealous folks ruin their wine by contaminating it with iodophor or over sulfiting it. 

I have been following a thread on another site where the poor guy has undrinkable wine because he soaked his corks in sulfite and it squeezed out into the wine when he bottled.

Just be judicious with your chemicals.


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## BobF (Aug 28, 2012)

Sanitation is insurance. "Buy" as much insurance as you think you need.

For me, the expense and/or effort required is considerable; worthy of a bit of insurance.

I hate cleaning and niggling around with sanitation. Just like I hate betting the insurance agent that I'll die, but hoping s/he wins the bet ;-)

DON'T BUY MORE INSURANCE THAN YOU NEED!


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## slh (Aug 29, 2012)

GreginND said:


> Ah, the sanitation issue. Let's look at this with some common sense.
> 
> Wine has a high enough alcohol and high enough acid that bacteria that is harmful to humans cannot survive. There are bacteria that can damage the wine. But judicious use of SO2 levels in the wine will keep them at bay. Wine is very forgiving. It is good practice to maintain adequate SO2 levels before fermentation to keep back natural weaker yeasts and microbes - and after fermentation to keep spoilage bacteria in check.
> 
> ...


Two things I will be changing, thanks to your reply, is letting my equipment dry completely and amping down the amount of sulfite at bottling. Which brings me to my next question:

I have a Titrets kit for measuring S02 in light, dry wine. How do you go about measuring the S02 in dark wines?

It seems to me if the S02 measures in the right range, I shouldn't need to add K-meta at all, right?


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## slh (Aug 29, 2012)

*What a great education THAT was!*



shanek17 said:


> i found this video awhile ago and found it interesting. its good to see things from another point of view. this video features bannana brewing in africa! i find it cool how relaxed they are with their procedures and their brewing beer which is generally lower alcohol, which means it would probably spoil before a high alcohol percent wine. i dont know for sure the percentage they are making but w.e their method is , it appears to be working!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fb-JwtE4Lw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> ...



That video blew my mind and got me thinking. The primary fermenter was that hollowed out log and wood is known to be naturally sanitizing (I've seen a few tests done on a couple of cooking shows regarding cutting boards and it beats plastic hands down for sanitation). I'd bet the same goes for the banana leaves. Once the alcohol has developed, it's sanitizing as well. Very interesting....


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## shanek17 (Aug 29, 2012)

slh said:


> That video blew my mind and got me thinking. The primary fermenter was that hollowed out log and wood is known to be naturally sanitizing (I've seen a few tests done on a couple of cooking shows regarding cutting boards and it beats plastic hands down for sanitation). I'd bet the same goes for the banana leaves. Once the alcohol has developed, it's sanitizing as well. Very interesting....



That iz interesting , iv never heard of wood having sanitary potential. But im not suprised since it comes from nature. Another thing i noticed was that their brewing outdoors in a beautiful environment, lots of trees and fresh air. as you may know trees are natural air fresheners and they also give off fresh oxygen. And even conisdering the fact that the air in the environment has capabilities to clean and purify itself. id say this sounds like a lot better brewing environment then compared to a dirty musty and stale basement.


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