# Elderberry Concentrate



## GreginND (Jun 18, 2012)

Ok, I need some advice and insight from the elderberry wine makers out there. I have only made wine from fresh berries once some time ago and mixed them half and half with blueberries. I called it "Old Blue" and it was delightful. But I digress.

I just acquired 4 gallons of elderberry concentrate that is frozen from a friend. I don't know if it is a commercial concentrate or was made by someone else. I do know that it is really thick and syrupy.

Anyway, I really don't know what the numbers typically are (acid/sugar) for pure unconcentrated elderberry juice. I'm not sure how best to proceed. What are the main acids in elderberries?

Should I dilute it to a SG of 1.090 and go with that or will it be too acidic/too much tannin and flavor?
Should I dilute it to the right acid level and adjust the sugar? Will it be too concentrated or too dilute at that point?
Should I try to dilute it to a less accurate taste point where I think it is right and then adjust?

Would you blend it with other juices/fruits or go with straight elderberry?

My intention is to make a dry red wine and I'll add oak in the primary and possibly later.

Thanks!


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## BobF (Jun 18, 2012)

I've never used concentrate and I've never done what I'm going to suggest. I have only done regular elderberry recipes ...

I would dilute for acidity and adjust SG to 1090 and tannins to taste by starting with a portion and scaling up for the full amount.
Also, I would use oak in the primary and during maturation.


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## GreginND (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks Bob. Do you know how acidic straight fresh elderberry juice is typically?


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## BobF (Jun 18, 2012)

I've seen wildly different numbers. I haven't measured pure juice, so I've always had to add acid. Apparently the variety matters for acidity.

Check out crackedcork's site for good info:
http://www.oatmealjack.com/Elderberries/ElderberriesWine.html


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## Julie (Jun 18, 2012)

I would say your acid should be around .70 - .75 but I like mine around .80.


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## saramc (Jun 18, 2012)

Greg...Do you have anything you can measure the Brix level with?

If it were mine: before I tried to do anything with that concentrate, I would want to know if anything has been added, such as: sulfates and/or sorbates. If your container is not marked or your source cannot tell you, I would take 1 cup of it and attempt make a starter from it (after diluting to appropriate SG, checking pH/acid levels, etc). That alone would tell you if you can initiate a ferment. 

Is the concentrate oxidized?

Don't know if this helps, http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/person/37108/PDF/Leeelderpolyp.pdf, but on page 4 of the PDF it gives data from the 2004 growing season (cultivar, Brix, TA, pH...) It would at least give you a general idea. [I know, I know--it is from 2004...but at least it is something]. I liked reading the article, but I admit I am not normal.


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## WVMountaineerJack (Jun 19, 2012)

greginnd said:


> i just acquired 4 gallons of elderberry concentrate that is frozen from a friend. I don't know if it is a commercial concentrate or was made by someone else. I do know that it is really thick and syrupy.
> 
> >is it frozen solid or in a syrup form in the freezer?
> 
> ...


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