# Muscadine, Wild Yeast, first time fresh grape



## sevenal (Oct 6, 2011)

Well here we go
Fresh grape from old vine, 65% Red Muscadine 35% big ol Bronze.
I actually picked three times and the further out we got from that week long rain event here the sweeter they got. They tasted so good I got carried away and picked 100 lbs.
The 30 gallon drum marked it at 20 gallons in the whole form.
After 3 hours of paint mixer, potato masher, and a mild case of carpal tunnel from hand mashing, yield was around 13.5 gallons of must.
Added water = 3 gallons. Whoops then added 8 tsp Pectin, shudda been visa versa. SG at this point was 1.03, added 12 lbs of sugar SG now 1.082
Ok it should be 1.085 to 1.09 ( thanks Sirs )
Anyway here is the part that gets interesting to me. 
46 hours later I decide I am going to add some sugar to compensate for the low SG. Very little if any foaming, no cap, more concentrate of skins on top.
Now it marks around 18.5 gallons in the drum. I added 3 lbs of sugar but I checked the SG first. Surprise! SG was 1.072
It did not even look like it had even really started. I have read about low foaming yeast but did not expect this.
The room it is in is around 71 to 72 degrees. Maybe it will get cranked up
and start rolling and foaming or something? 
Until then I'll just be observing and posting status.
If it don't get cranked up I'll probably have some question and ask for further advice.


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## Sirs (Oct 6, 2011)

on some of the muscadines there isn't a lot of foaming there is a lot of movement in the must but because of the way the skins are being so thick it seems like the fermentation is going slow but it is actually going pretty good, the skins will look like their just floating to the top with nothing going on but there is and it goes pretty good on most so just keep a good eye on them and bust the ones that pop up on top that haven't been popped yet it will surprise you at how quick they go once they get warmed up good
my must is staying right at 84 degrees on its on even with cool nights in the 50's here in the house.


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## Sirs (Oct 6, 2011)

if the skins are pushing up top then their fermenting, otherwise they'd just sit like when you left them last


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## sevenal (Oct 8, 2011)

*now getting a cap of skins*


In the am and after work I am getting a thick crust several inches thick of skins and seed.
I am pushing it back down and stirring twice a day.
Will read SG tonight after work


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## Sirs (Oct 8, 2011)

good knew it would come around and start going good just got to be patient


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## Ernest T Bass (Oct 8, 2011)

Just finished a muscadine run, or should I say 3 runs. First run was great, on the second run on the must I had to add a F-Pack and it turned out great, I have the 3rd run under air lock and settling. I'm not sure how the 3rd run is going to come out, but soo far it looks pretty good. After the 2nd run, I opened up all the hulls to try to get more color and flavor, the muscadines still had a lot of color but I thought that may give it more. The first run was 5 gallons, second was 3 gallons and the 3rd was 2 gallons. I too had to look close to see any bubbles, but it was working under the hulls. Also, I started out with 25 pounds of muscadines (5 gallons). All three batches are a little low on alcohol, my starting SpGr was 1.085, next time I'm going a little higher.
Good luck

Semper Fi


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## sevenal (Oct 8, 2011)

*SG now 1.07 day four*

Reviewing 
I thought I had too little sugar in the original must at 1.082
On day two I added three more lbs of sugar to compensate.
Today, day four it is 1.07
Looks like this wild yeast is going to work slow.
No problem, have plenty of wine from the cran grape.
I must confess I am am beer drinker at heart and have been enjoying some seasonal favorites.
Actually I have in mind a 14% after racking three times and having a nice clear blush color. No idea what style you would call this?
I'm thinking at least two 6 gallon carboys of secondary.
I'll keep a couple gallons out to mix with 96 oz of cranberry wine In the works as well. May even mix that to an entire 5 gallons.
I always fast for the month of Feb. So it looks like a March consumable.


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## Julie (Oct 8, 2011)

Bud said:


> Just finished a muscadine run, or should I say 3 runs. First run was great, on the second run on the must I had to add a F-Pack and it turned out great, I have the 3rd run under air lock and settling. I'm not sure how the 3rd run is going to come out, but soo far it looks pretty good. After the 2nd run, I opened up all the hulls to try to get more color and flavor, the muscadines still had a lot of color but I thought that may give it more. The first run was 5 gallons, second was 3 gallons and the 3rd was 2 gallons. I too had to look close to see any bubbles, but it was working under the hulls. Also, I started out with 25 pounds of muscadines (5 gallons). All three batches are a little low on alcohol, my starting SpGr was 1.085, next time I'm going a little higher.
> Good luck
> 
> Semper Fi



Bud, what is wrong with 1.085? You know that is going to give you ABV of 11 - 11.5%, lol, you don't need any more than that!


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## sevenal (Oct 8, 2011)

*Dito*

I thought that was where I needed to be as well.
While blending the sugar two lbs at a time to the large batch I was getting like .002 thus the three lb decision. Post fermentation start.
Could always do the double fermentation trick? Might with gallon jug?
Or add grain alcohol. Lol


Kidding


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## Sirs (Oct 8, 2011)

Julie said:


> Bud, what is wrong with 1.085? You know that is going to give you ABV of 11 - 11.5%, lol, you don't need any more than that!



LOL no not if your wanting to drink grape juice some of us like to have a little alcohol with our juice Julie........


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## pwrose (Oct 8, 2011)

and some of us like a little grape juice with our alcohol


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## sevenal (Oct 8, 2011)

*Too Much*

Not the alcohol 
You Sirs
I am absolutely intrigued by this rocket fuel approach to your method.
I gotta try your double dip take a trip fermentation technique.
I'll be in touch for a little hand holding when I get that far along.
The trial process will advance my wine making abilities and keep my interest.
Thanks for all the feedback here folks, you make the process much more than it would otherwise be just reading instructions.


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## ffemt128 (Oct 8, 2011)

sevenal said:


> Not the alcohol
> You Sirs
> I am absolutely intrigued by this rocket fuel approach to your method.
> I gotta try your double dip take a trip fermentation technique.
> ...



I can attest that Eddie make wonerful wine. BTW, my hip lives on hay 101 not far from moorehead city.


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## sevenal (Oct 8, 2011)

*Lol*

Hip lives on hay 
??
I know you refer to Hwy 101 Cherry Pt to Beaufort
Right?


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## Sirs (Oct 8, 2011)

It's not rocket fuel you gotta distill it to make that but it does have enough ABV to make it where it is sipping wine not gulping


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## ffemt128 (Oct 9, 2011)

sevenal said:


> Hip lives on hay
> ??
> I know you refer to Hwy 101 Cherry Pt to Beaufort
> Right?



That's the wonderful aut correct on the HTC phone, should have been BIL on HWY. I corrected it above. He lives right next door to the hotel/bed and breakfast that is/was there. Have seen him in years.


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## Julie (Oct 9, 2011)

Sirs said:


> It's not rocket fuel you gotta distill it to make that but it does have enough ABV to make it where it is sipping wine not gulping



Eddie, it is jet fuel, mighty fine tasting jet fuel, your fortified was rocket fuel


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## sevenal (Oct 9, 2011)

*Drops further*

Mid day SG reading 1.064
5 days in and getting dryer
It is comforting to read others stay in the primary for up to two weeks.
I have never tried anything like this. Fresh grape and a nearly 20 gallon batch.
So far so good Oh and it smells fresh and tastes good. Juicy!


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## Sirs (Oct 10, 2011)

yeah 14 days is as far as I let any go in the primary but have left them for that long before and never had any trouble


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## sevenal (Oct 10, 2011)

*Hope to get to secondary by the weekend*

With any luck it will be dry by Sat. the 15th that will be day 11.
Getting the wine into the secondaries will have the majority of the work behind me. No hurry though.


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## Sirs (Oct 10, 2011)

hopefully it will but you never want to hurry any wine your making cause normally soon as you start to doing things in a hurry that's when you'll either forget to do something or do it wrong then your in for a real mess or big lose both of which nobody really wants.if it hasn't reached dry completely by day 14 just rack over into secondary and let her take her time there.


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## sevenal (Oct 13, 2011)

*At 1.032*

Coming along 
Looks like the primary is droping about .01 every 48 hours or so


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## sevenal (Oct 15, 2011)

*Now @ 1.022*

drying at the same rate 
.01 every 48 hours
Day 11
going to the secondary Tue. no matter what.
Should be 1.002or lower and that is day 14.
Any thoughts?


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## Sirs (Oct 15, 2011)

sounds like what I'd do lol only once I got mine strained and ready for secondary, thats when I add more sugar


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## sevenal (Oct 18, 2011)

*In the carboy's*

Well I did not want to chance it further so in the evening of day 13 I put it in the secondary.
SG was at 1.012
Yield was 2X5 gal carboy's and 2X1 gal jugs.
After straining through a painter bag it looks like about 3 1/2 gal of it will be lees.
So when the second racking happens with a little top off with last vintage, should yield ten gallons.

Now as to color sorta raspberry lollypop color. Maybe a little brighter?
The new carboy posed a problem, as I could not get the bung to stay in, kept popping out. I put a balloon on it and went to bed. Today it wants to stay in there well.
The action looks ravenous, Sparkling bubble are non stop and so is the discharge of CO2.
Taste is still sweet and aroma is as to be expected, fermenting wine.
I am pretty stoked about my third project ever and my first one from ripe fruit and not concentrate.

And Sirs I have not disregarded the possibility of double dipping the process on one of those five gallon containers. It would nice to produce two distinctly different products from this project. May give you a shout? Thanks for the guidance and encouragement to everyone.


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## sevenal (Nov 30, 2011)

*Update 7.5 weeks in*

Ok I have racked once and a couple weeks ago we had a 78 degree day and the two batches took off again. It has settled back down now and tonight I tasted the wine.
One five gallon I added a gallon of a sweet cranberry wine that was about six weeks old. That was three weeks ago.
I tasted the wine tonight and it smells great, like a fresh Muscadine grape.Problem is the wine has a Green taste if that makes any sense?
You smell the wine and are anxious to taste it and the alc level is there and then the after taste is like a green fruit.
The grapes did not taste green off the vine and I am not sure what is the cause or solution of this issue. Obviously the back sweetening has not been sufficient. Any thoughts?


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## sevenal (Nov 30, 2011)

*A matter of simply back sweetening?*

I had hoped to have someone at least ask a question if not know from experience what the GREEN mouth experience is all about.
This really surprises me because I eat dozens and dozens of these straight off the vine. Half white grapes and half golden. The skins were tart.
Can I add acid or some other additive to counter the sharp green taste?
I was also thinking about back sweetening with concentrate brought to room temp?


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## UBB (Nov 30, 2011)

what kind of primary did you use?


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## sevenal (Dec 1, 2011)

*White plastic drum*

It was in a 30gal white plastic food grade drum with cheese cloth covering.


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## UBB (Dec 1, 2011)

sevenal said:


> It was in a 30gal white plastic food grade drum with cheese cloth covering.



ok thanks. I'm expecting my first harvest of grapes this next fall and have been looking for a larger primary then just a 6gal bucket.


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## sevenal (Dec 1, 2011)

*Green taste*

Can anyone help me with the fact that my wine tastes green?


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## ffemt128 (Dec 2, 2011)

Not sure about the green taste, could be just young wine taste. What is your sg, did you back sweeten? The muscadine I made last year was back sweetend to 1.008 I believe and it brought out incredible flavors. Given that this is an October 2011 start date, I would definately go with the young wine. My 2011 muscadine was started the begining of October so it's less than 2 months new at this point.

My suggestion, Degass, Stabilize, Backsweeten, and let it age another 4 months before you try it and see if the flavor is where you want it to be.


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## sevenal (Dec 2, 2011)

*Thanks*

Sounds like a plan 
sweeten to 1.01 and go from there at the next tasting?


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## ffemt128 (Dec 3, 2011)

sevenal said:


> Sounds like a plan
> sweeten to 1.01 and go from there at the next tasting?



You may want to start a little lower 1.006 unless you already back sweetened. This way you are slowly sweetening rather than just shooting for 1.010 and then find it may be too sweet for your taste. Use small samples in your hydrometer tube and see where you like it. 


I generally will take a cup or so start low. Measure, adjust if necessary , measure and continue until it is where we like it.,


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## Sirs (Dec 4, 2011)

I've noticed the bronze/white muscadines normally have a rather tart/green taste unless the grapes are really really ripe to me their almost like a frost grape where the skins will taste tart till they've got extremely ripe. That taste will slowly go just gotta give it time more than anything


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## sevenal (Dec 12, 2011)

*Stabilize*


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Dec 12th wine about 2 months old
Tonight I took 5gal and racked for the second time.
I then degassed and added 1/8 tsp per gal of potassium metabisulfite
Also added 3 and 1/4 tsp of potassium sorbate 
I mixed the chemicals in a cup of warm wine to dissolve, then added
Then I back sweetened with 34.5oz of grape concentrate 
Starting SG was .995 or so
Sweetened to 1.0125
Much better
I hope to rack again in 10 days and maybe give 5 or 6 bottles away for Christmas.
Green taste fading.
The second carboy is still working a little, That's where it took of the second time after racking. I read here this may be a acid conversion process going on.
I hope to rack that carboy again around the first of the year and let it mature until March before tasting. 
Or ? Perhaps I should try to stabilize that one as well and then let it mature?


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