# Any wine vinegar makers here??



## BIGJEFF

I want to start making wine vinegar, I got the basics but I do have a few questions...

1. I don't know if I can find starting mother around here (haven't look yet...), if I can't find any is there an other way to start it?
2. Do you put your left over wine in your jar as you go or keep it in the fridge?
3. how much vinegar do get out of lets say 1 gallon of wine?
4. Can you mix different kind of wine?
5. Can you freeze or refrigerate the starting mother to keep it until you get enough wine to start a new batch?

Thanks for your answers!!

Jeff


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## Torch404

1.
You can get Braggs apple cider vinegar or similar non-pasteurized, with mother vinegar. Just put a couple of cap fulls into your wine and it will start the process for you.
Some home brew shops also carry packets of the bacteria that make vinegar.
2.
With the perpetual wine vinegar crock(jar?) method you just keep adding more wine to it as needed. Wine vinegar like wine tastes better with age.
3.
a gallon of vinegar minus the sludge and mother which probably don't account for more then a cup or two.
4.
yes you can mix, most people try to keep red and white separate.
5.
I would not freeze but you can refrigerate it. Really you can just keep it in the vinegar till you add more wine. Vinegar is slow so you have plenty of time to get round to the store.


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## djrockinsteve

I do know that you need to keep your vinegar and wine seperate. The vinegar will contaminate your wine. My neighboe makes his vinegar up in his attic, wine in the cellar.


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## umbrellalady

*Vinegar*

Hi BigJeff
I make wine, cider and ginger beer vinegars on an ongoing basis and have for some time.

I use large, 1 gallon pickle jars to make it in. I use paper coffee filters and a rubber band(from broccoli) for a lid. It can still breath but the fruit flies can't get in.

Bragg's cider vinegar has a mother in it. It is like a dust on the bottom of the bottle or like a "veil." Give it a good shake and then add some into a jar along with a bottle of wine. (a goodly amount) Feed it about once a week or every couple weeks - just a bit - a cup or so. Never feed it more than what you have in the jar as it will kill the mother. It will take about 4-6 weeks to make red wine vinegar and much longer to make white wine vinegar. 

Once you have a vinegary smell, you know that a mother is developing/ed. You need to feed her or she will die. You will sometimes get several mothers on top of each other. When this happens, remove them - give them away or start new batches with them. You can pasteurize your vinegar but you lose all the health benefits that come with producing it yourself. I remove about half of what is in the jar every couple months and put it in a screwcap wine bottle in the fridge. 

It doesn't matter what kind of wines you use but it is best to keep the white separate from the red and ciders, etc. Any leftover wines can be mixed together and just stored in the cupboard to use to feed the mother. If you keep the leftover wine in the fridge it will shock her and slow down the conversion. I keep my vinegars in the cupboard over the fridge because it is the ideal temperature and it is dark. Vinegar likes to breathe and live a dark warm place.

I keep two jars of each vinegar going so I always have some to draw from without having to start from scratch each time.

The same method is used to make white wine, cider, and ginger beer vinegar. If it doesn't work for you - let me know and I will send some mothers your way.

Also - google vinegar mother in images so you can see what it looks like - some are solid cellulose layers while others are like slimy veils. Good luck with it.


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## whine4wine

We always use Bragg organic apple cider vinigar.
It has some great health benifits.

I must confess I never thought of making more with some apple wine, I suppose it might be cheaper as Bragg is quite expensive. 

Apple wine seems to disappear fast around my house.......must be that wine thief I have.


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## mdenegre

*Mold on top of wine*

I have a crock of wine I am trying to make into vinegar. It has developed a layer of what appears to be mold on top. Is this normal?


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## BIGJEFF

umbrellalady said:


> Hi BigJeff
> I make wine, cider and ginger beer vinegars on an ongoing basis and have for some time.
> 
> I use large, 1 gallon pickle jars to make it in. I use paper coffee filters and a rubber band(from broccoli) for a lid. It can still breath but the fruit flies can't get in.
> 
> Bragg's cider vinegar has a mother in it. It is like a dust on the bottom of the bottle or like a "veil." Give it a good shake and then add some into a jar along with a bottle of wine. (a goodly amount) Feed it about once a week or every couple weeks - just a bit - a cup or so. Never feed it more than what you have in the jar as it will kill the mother. It will take about 4-6 weeks to make red wine vinegar and much longer to make white wine vinegar.
> 
> Once you have a vinegary smell, you know that a mother is developing/ed. You need to feed her or she will die. You will sometimes get several mothers on top of each other. When this happens, remove them - give them away or start new batches with them. You can pasteurize your vinegar but you lose all the health benefits that come with producing it yourself. I remove about half of what is in the jar every couple months and put it in a screwcap wine bottle in the fridge.
> 
> It doesn't matter what kind of wines you use but it is best to keep the white separate from the red and ciders, etc. Any leftover wines can be mixed together and just stored in the cupboard to use to feed the mother. If you keep the leftover wine in the fridge it will shock her and slow down the conversion. I keep my vinegars in the cupboard over the fridge because it is the ideal temperature and it is dark. Vinegar likes to breathe and live a dark warm place.
> 
> I keep two jars of each vinegar going so I always have some to draw from without having to start from scratch each time.
> 
> The same method is used to make white wine, cider, and ginger beer vinegar. If it doesn't work for you - let me know and I will send some mothers your way.
> 
> Also - google vinegar mother in images so you can see what it looks like - some are solid cellulose layers while others are like slimy veils. Good luck with it.




thanks!! That's excacly the info I was looking for!! 



mdenegre said:


> I have a crock of wine I am trying to make into vinegar. It has developed a layer of what appears to be mold on top. Is this normal?


if it looks like this it's normal 
http://www.google.ca/images?hl=fr&e...=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=607


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## mdenegre

*Picture of my wine*

This is what it looks like


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## BIGJEFF

some better expert than me will confirm but i'd say that's mother of vinegar...not sure tho...


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## umbrellalady

*vinegar mother*

Hi mdenegre,

This is going to sound harsh but looking at your picture, I would say to toss that batch. I have never seen a vinegar mother with that much blue mould on it before. If you had a couple of dots of mould, I would say to remove the mother and just let another one develop but that one has far too much mould on it to be safe.

I would get a new mother from someone or a bottle of Bragg's and start over. Make sure you wash and sterilize your container before you use it and keep it covered with several thicknesses of cheesecloth or something similiar that can breath and that you can tie down to keep the vinegar/fruit flies out of it.

Good luck with it - such a pity that happened.
Umbrellalady


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## BIGJEFF

I've been given a very nice old, very old crock that I'm planning to use to make my vinegar...







the interior looks good too


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## BIGJEFF

I started my 1st vinegar today...
I used this stuff:





I put about 6oz (I hope it's enough!!) in my crock along with a bottle of Shiraz, then covered it with a coffee filter:





can't wait to have my 1st taste of that stuff....with EVO and fresh bread!!


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## mdenegre

Thnks umbrellalady, I was headed in that direction, but thought I would get a second opinion. This is the second batch to do it.


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## umbrellalady

*Vinegar mother*

BigJeff - I forgot to tell you that the vinegar is better the longer it sits. You can also add up to 1/2 water mixed in with you wine when you feed your vinegar because there is sometimes quite a bit of evaporation. I never to rarely add any water...

As far as storing the mother goes - I know you can dry it and then powder it but I would think that freezing it would kill it as it is a living organism. It will only slow it down putting it in the fridge and unless you feed it, it will probably eventually die.

Also - oxidized wine is only a couple steps short of vinegar...lol so if you wind up with any that oxidizes it is great to feed the vinegar with.

|Your crock is awesome! Just keep it in the dark and keep it warm. Actually, you might be able to keep it on the counter because your crock won't let in the light - google vinegar crocks and have a look at them - they sit on the counter.

Good luck! It is just as much fun to make vinegar as it is wine. 
Umbrellalady


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## umbrellalady

*mdenegre's vinegar*

Hi mdenegre - 
If this is the second batch to do this molding thing - are you using the same bottle of Bragg's to start it with? You might want to get a fresh, new bottle and use it. Are you covering your vinegar? Where are you storing it? Are you adding water to it when you feed it? If so, is it straight tap water? If it is then that may be the source of the mold... or your cover - are you washing and sterilizing it? Sorry for all the questions - just trying to find out what the source is.

Good luck.

umbrellalady


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## umbrellalady

*Vinegar*

BigJeff and mdenegre:

Don't forget to stir your vinegar a few times initially to aerate it - maybe for the first couple weeks or so.

umbrellalady


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## BIGJEFF

I added 2 750ml bottles of wine to about 6oz of vinegar....it hasn't been 24hrs yet and it already smells stongly of vinegar....should I add more wine or is it gonna be allright?


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## umbrellalady

*Vinegar*

Hi BigJeff:

It will be just fine. It will smell like vinegar because of what you added. When the wine is older it changes quicker to vinegar and will develop a mother quicker - mine developed a mother on one of my jars in six days - the wine I had used was about 10/15 years or so old and was probably on the cusp. Let it mature - and keep adding a bit to it each week - you will see the mother floating - she will be dark red on reds and fleshy on whites and ciders.

When it changes to vinegar - the smell is really, really,strong - (really!) -don't stick you nose completely in your jar when you have a mother - it will clean the nose hairs right out of your nose...just sniff around the edges...

Give it time - this is something that teaches patience - months of it, literally. It won't be ready to use for a few months...Enjoy the process!


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## mdenegre

umbrellalady said:


> Hi mdenegre -
> If this is the second batch to do this molding thing - are you using the same bottle of Bragg's to start it with? You might want to get a fresh, new bottle and use it. Are you covering your vinegar? Where are you storing it? Are you adding water to it when you feed it? If so, is it straight tap water? If it is then that may be the source of the mold... or your cover - are you washing and sterilizing it? Sorry for all the questions - just trying to find out what the source is.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> umbrellalady



No problem with the questions,Thanks for the feedback.

My first batch I just left out, this second I used a mother I was given. Both were covered in a large apothecary style jar. It sits in a corner on the kitchen counter out of any direct light. Never added water, haven't had the second batch going long enough to feed it, I started it on Sept 20th. Not sure if I sterilized, although I probably did because I used to brew beer so I know the value of it.


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## umbrellalady

*mdenegre's vinegar*

Hi mdenegre - Is the apothecary jar clear? The vinegar should be in the dark, not even out on a counter unless it is in a vinegar jar that doesn't allow light in. I wonder if that could be the problem?


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## BIGJEFF

once I got a mother, can I cut a piece to start a new vinagar?


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## umbrellalady

*Vinegar mother*

BigJeff - Yes - having a mother or part of one is the quickest way to get things rolling. Just drop her into some wine and give her some time! (even rhymes!) Keep her dark and warm also.


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## umbrellalady

*vinegar mother*

BigJeff - It doesn't matter how big your piece of mother is to start the vinegar. Note that the larger it is the quicker things will roll.


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