# Broad Run Cellars 2015 Fall Crush



## Boatboy24

OK, this is where I'm going to photographically document all the best rest stops on I-95 for JohnT. 

And maybe some stuff about the fall harvest/crush. 

Tomorrow is my pickup day. I don't have a crusher/destemmer, so the winery where I buy my grapes is where that happens. I'll be sure to snap a pic or two. What I love about buying this stuff from a winery is that I actually get to taste and maybe buy some wine while I'm there. They make a fantastic Traminette. Two birds. One stone. 

Anyway, here's my prep work for the evening. Buckets all cleaned and filled with a cup or so of KMeta solution. Ready for tomorrow's journey. It's a little more than 90 minutes each way, but the time goes quickly and I enjoy the solitude. 


More to come tomorrow and over the weekend.


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## 4score

Good luck and have fun!


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## ibglowin

If the Maytag repairman made wine...... That is what it would look like! LOL. Happy Crush Jim!


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## heatherd

Jim,
Are you planning to make Traminette as well?


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## Boatboy24

heatherd said:


> Jim,
> Are you planning to make Traminette as well?



I'd love to try making a Traminette. I didn't see any of the MD grapes on the website, but I'll be asking them about it while I'm there. It'd be great if I could snag a bucket of juice.


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## Boatboy24

OK, buckets are in the car and the primaries are ready. It's exciting looking at empty trash cans, isn't it? 

I still have a little tidying to do on the workbench.


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## Steve_M

Boatboy24 said:


> It's exciting looking at empty trash cans, isn't it?



I'm speechless!
Safe travels

Steve


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## JohnT

Looks like you are ready! 

I actually get depressed when I see empty primaries!


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## heatherd

Boatboy24 said:


> I'd love to try making a Traminette. I didn't see any of the MD grapes on the website, but I'll be asking them about it while I'm there. It'd be great if I could snag a bucket of juice.



If you call or email, they will put aside traminette grapes for you. They were not ready when I was there two weekends ago but might be now. I had two lugs of traminette on my order but it wasn't ready two weeks ago when I was there to pick up CA juice and grapes.

I will be headed back when the Italian juces are there....


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## Boatboy24

heatherd said:


> If you call or email, they will put aside traminette grapes for you. They were not ready when I was there two weekends ago but might be now. I had two lugs of traminette on my order but it wasn't ready two weeks ago when I was there to pick up CA juice and grapes.
> 
> I will be headed back when the Italian juces are there....



They finished the last of their harvest on Tuesday apparently. No Traminette juice, as I expected. They did have grapes, but I don't have time today/tonight to go through pressing, so I passed.


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## Boatboy24

OK, after what ended up being a round trip of just over 4 hours (including crush time and a quick stop for lunch), my babies are all in their primaries. I even managed to get in a little yard work before it started raining just a short while ago. 

The grapes looked good, aside from a few raisined clusters of Cab Sauv. Interestingly, that one seems to be the juiciest of the three now. I'm a little surprised by the initial brix readings: Cab Sauv: 24.8, Syrah: 24.6, Petite Sirah: 23.2. I'll remeasure in the morning after they've had time to soak. I'm especially surprised by the PS (figured that'd be the highest of the group). I haven't checked acid yet, will also do that in the morning. Buckets are all clean, and I'm ready for a little rest before we go to Bingo night at the kid's school. 

I did manage to snap a few pics.

Here's the Cab. As I mentioned, some raisined/crushed grapes.












And the Petite Sirah:






@JohnT: I know you wanted lots of pictures. Here's an action shot.


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## ibglowin

Grapes look good, esp the PS. Mine had a weird (much lower than normal) brix this year also. Had me scratching my head and rechecking the refractometer more than once. That has usually been in the 28 Brix range for me historically.


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## geek

My PS was 29.5 Brix.


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## heatherd

Boatboy24 said:


> They finished the last of their harvest on Tuesday apparently. No Traminette juice, as I expected. They did have grapes, but I don't have time today/tonight to go through pressing, so I passed.



Maybe next year! I wonder if they would press for a fee the same way they crush for a fee.


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> Grapes look good, esp the PS. Mine had a weird (much lower than normal) brix this year also. Had me scratching my head and rechecking the refractometer more than once. That has usually been in the 28 Brix range for me historically.



With the growing season they had and some of the numbers I was seeing, I was surprised - especially with the PS. Can't complain, really. I'd like the PS to be a little higher, but no issues with the other two - maybe a touch high. 

We'll see what they look like in the morning. Meanwhile, I'm sipping on some of my first wine from grapes - 2013 Amador Gold PS.


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## Boatboy24

OK, I just finished my morning's chemistry homework.  I hit all three wines with the refractometer again this morning (twice). Not much has changed since last night: Cab at 24.8 still, with the Syrah and PS both coming in right at 25 brix. My pH meter simply will not calibrate, so I threw pH out the window for now (I wanted to throw the meter out the window). I ran titration on all three. Cabernet shows .65, Syrah at .55, and the PS between .5 and .55. I left the Cab alone and added Tartaric on the other two to get me halfway to .65. I'll check again post MLF and go from there. 

I'm extremely happy with the color change overnight on the PS and Syrah. Cab color is good too, but I'd like a little more extraction.

After the acid adjustments, I gave all three some Lallzyme EX. Tonight, I'll add OptiRed and pitch the yeast: BM4X4 on the Cab, RP15 on the Syrah, and D254 on the PS. I'm contemplating using BM4X4 on the PS as well. But I only have two packets of each yeast. So if one fails, I'm kinda outta luck. 

A few snaps. Syrah in the white Brute, Cab in the gray.


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## geek

Nice fermentation.
I used bm45 for my PS.


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## Boatboy24

Had some good signs of fermentation when I went to bed last night. This morning, caps were starting to form.  The color on all 3 continues to darken and I'm pretty amazed so far at how they look.

My first sip of coffee jump started my brain and I remembered that I failed to remember adding the Opti Red last night. Took care of that and gave things a nice stir. Dad may come by this afternoon for what should be the official first punchdown. Then I can relax somewhat until next Sunday's press.


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## ibglowin

Just make sure if you add any tannins you need to wait 24 hrs after adding your enzymes or they can react with them.


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## ibglowin

You don't press on your schedule, you press on the grapes schedule! 



Boatboy24 said:


> Then I can relax somewhat until next Sunday's press.


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> Just make sure if you add any tannins you need to wait 24 hrs after adding your enzymes or they can react with them.



It was about 22. The MoreWine write up on the Lallzyme EX said 6-8 though. 



ibglowin said:


> You don't press on your schedule, you press on the grapes schedule!



Grapes: you will comply!!


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## Boatboy24

Mom and Dad came by to witness the first punchdowns and get the background on what has happened so far. Dad even punched down the Syrah - quite well, I might add. He mentioned he was making pasta for dinner, but wasn't sure he had something good to go with it. He ended up leaving with an Amarone.


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## Boatboy24

3X per day punchdowns since Monday. All three ferments smell great and the color is frighteningly dark on all of them. I'm pretty amazed, actually - hope I don't screw these up.


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## geek

Boatboy24 said:


> 3X per day punchdowns since Monday. All three ferments smell great and the color is frighteningly dark on all of them. I'm pretty amazed, actually - hope I don't screw these up.




The Petite Syrah is insanely dark, isn't it.


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> The Petite Syrah is insanely dark, isn't it.



Yes. I expect that from a PS. But the other two are very close.


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## Boatboy24

SG Check:

Cabernet Sauvignon: 1.020
Syrah: 1.030
Petite Sirah: 1.018

Moving right along and on target for a Sunday press party.


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## Boatboy24

It's press day! I just did the final punchdown and everything is all set. Just need to box up that peach wine that I bottled yesterday. Parents are coming over this afternoon for the fun, and hopefully, one of my sisters as well. I checked SG's yesterday. Cab and PS were both at 1.002 and the Syrah was at 1.012. I'll check SG's again while pressing.


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## ibglowin

An "indoors" press. My, my we do like to live dangerously don't we!


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> An "indoors" press. My my we do like to live dangerously don't we!











I'm actually being careful here. Previous presses didn't even have the tarp!


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## geek

Good luck...


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## ibglowin

Small, wobbly coffee table to hold the press........

1" margin of error and the whole press tips over and spills its guts on the floor......

You just might be giving Danger Dave a run for his money!


We want to see pics of the impending disaster for sure!


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## Kraffty

Looks like a great way to spend a Sunday! Indoors work, it makes you go slow and gentle. Mike


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## sour_grapes

Best of luck, Jim! Hope the press goes smoothly!


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## Boatboy24

Well, that's done. It went great. My dad worked that press like he'd been making wine his whole life. He was a machine! We ended up with about 7.5 gallons of Cabernet Sauvignon, 7 gallons of Syrah, and 4 gallons of Petite Sirah. It took us about 3 hours, including cleanup. So far, all three wines are very tasty, each with a slight acid bite that I'm confident will smooth out nicely with a little age and MLF. I'll check acid levels after MLF is complete, but the SG's today were Cab: 0.996, Sryah: 1.002, PS: 0.998. The color on the Syrah is absolutely incredible, rivaling, and possibly being better than the PS. I was blown away. 

We finished cleaning everything up and enjoy a little cheese while we cracked open a 2012 CC LR Red Mountain Trio. Then I cooked up some burgers for dinner, along with some sides my parents brought. It was a really good day. Bring on the Chileans! 

Here's Dad, working the Cab like he means it:





The Syrah. I'm really fired up about this wine. 





A closer shot of the Syrah. 





I'll rack on Monday or Tuesday (probably Tues) and pitch VP41.


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## JohnT

ibglowin said:


> An "indoors" press. My, my we do like to live dangerously don't we!


 

Indoors pressing is awesome! You do not have to deal with bees or yellow-jackets! So what if the floor is a little stained?


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## ibglowin

If you have a floor drain and a concrete floor! LOL I could never get away with it……..


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## geek

Jim,

That picture just reminds my dad....I lost him about 12 years ago and I'm positive he'd be willing to help with my wine making stuff if he was with us.

Nice that you have your dad to cherish those moments that will live with you forever.
Good job..!!


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> If you have a floor drain and a concrete floor! LOL I could never get away with it……..



Now that you mention it, the sump pump was right behind my dad in that first pic. I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.


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## ibglowin

That is the tiniest press I have ever seen Jim! How many times did you have to empty it and refill?


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> That is the tiniest press I have ever seen Jim! How many times did you have to empty it and refill?



Once for each varietal. It's 18L.


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## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> That is the tiniest press I have ever seen Jim! How many times did you have to empty it and refill?





Boatboy24 said:


> Once for each varietal. It's 18L.



His father is HHUUUGE!


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## JohnT

Nice new avatar BB!


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## ibglowin

Honey, I shrunk the Press!


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## Steve_M

Jim,
The Oompa Loompas want there press back!


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## Boatboy24

Since you guys feel so bad for me and my itsy bitsy press, I won't get upset when you pitch in and get me a #35 ratchet press.


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## ibglowin

You only need a #30. Maybe you should start a "GoFundMe" account!


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> You only need a #30.



Hey, go big or go home, right?


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## ibglowin

Just thinking about your "press space"........ 

I have the #30 and it works very well for the Garagiste (like me) who uses Carboys. Holds 3 lugs easily and the price is reasonable.


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## ColemanM

I went big! Was planning on getting 200 lbs of Marquette and Frontenac gris grapes so I preempted the purchase with this. Until I tasted the Malbec I grabbed from winegrapesdirect. Let's just say I put the Marquette on hold.


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## Boatboy24

Racked off the gross lees tonight, then ran out of time. Will pitch MLB tomorrow or Thursday. All the heavy lifting is done now. The hard part begins - patience.


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## JohnT

BB, 

It is not the size that counts, but what you do with it!


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## Boatboy24

Got the VP41 pitched last night. All three wines smell great already. I say it every time but: "I'm very excited about this batch of wines". 

Time for a little rest.


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## Steve_M

A well deserved one at that!

Steve


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## Boatboy24

Started chromatography tonight and tasted all three. The Syrah and PS are scary good already. I think the Cab has not seen much MLF so far. Definitely an acid bite, where there other two are silky smooth, aside from a little residual CO2. We'll know more tomorrow, but I'm thinking I may need to re-pitch on the cab. 

Overall though, I have to say I'm VERY impressed with the results from my Lanza grapes.


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## JohnT

BB, 

Just re-read through this thread. 

was really enjoying all of the pictures. 

Then I go to the "Dad pressing the grapes" picture. 

Got all choked up (again). Father and Son.. Making wine together.. It's a beautiful thing..

so glad that they are turning out well. when are you inviting us down for a *taste*?????

(fyi, in NJ, *taste *= guzzle)


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## geek

JohnT said:


> BB,
> 
> when are you inviting us down for a *taste*?????
> 
> (fyi, in NJ, *taste *= guzzle)



oh yeah...I'm driving down to Maryland/DC area for Thanksgiving....


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## Boatboy24

JohnT said:


> BB,
> 
> Just re-read through this thread.
> 
> was really enjoying all of the pictures.
> 
> Then I go to the "Dad pressing the grapes" picture.
> 
> Got all choked up (again). Father and Son.. Making wine together.. It's a beautiful thing..
> 
> so glad that they are turning out well. when are you inviting us down for a *taste*?????
> 
> (fyi, in NJ, *taste *= guzzle)



Stop by the next time you're headed to Culpeper. If you go via 66/29, you drive within two miles of us.


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> oh yeah...I'm driving down to Maryland/DC area for Thanksgiving....



Nice! Stop in and say hello.


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## geek

Boatboy24 said:


> Nice! Stop in and say hello.



or maybe when we drive down to FL for Christmas.....


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## Boatboy24

As I suspected, the Syrah and Petit Sirah are done, but the Cab looks like it never started. I'll order some CH16 and Acti-ML tonight and try again.


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## Boatboy24

Here's a pic.


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## Steve_M

Jim,
Well done on the ML, I wish mine had progressed as good as yours did.

Steve


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## Boatboy24

I pitched CH16 about a week and a half ago. Very little activity in the carboy, but I am seeing a few tiny bubbles. Fingers are crossed, and I've got a little Don Ho playing down there 24/7 to encourage things.  I've got the brew belt on it, keeping it around 72 degrees.

Yesterday, I racked and stabilized the Syrah. It was getting a bit of a yeasty taste to it. Hopefully, the racking will take care of that.


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## JohnT

I have found that the yeasty taste will fade over time.


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## Boatboy24

Well, it's been a little over a month. Very little, if any, progress noted on the chromatography. I'm leaning toward 'very little'. Even though my eyes might be seeing things optimistically, I think the wine is tasting a little less harsh than I recall. I'm going to let it sit a little longer. But it's been over 2 months already and I'm starting to get nervous about not having any sulfite on the wine.


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## ibglowin

Boatboy24 said:


> But it's been over 2 months already and I'm starting to get nervous about not having any sulfite on the wine.




I thought danger was your middle name??????

Have you run another chromatography test?

As long as you don't have any white film starting to form on the wines surface your good.


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> I thought danger was your middle name??????
> 
> Have you run another chromatography test?
> 
> As long as you don't have any white film starting to form on the wines surface your good.



My middle name, yes. Not my first name. 

Just ran another chroma on Sunday. 

Brew belt is on, and temp around 72. Patience is what is needed, I guess.


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## Boatboy24

OK, I bought this little number about a month ago:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NL0BVAY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

For the cost of a new probe on my pHep 5, I could buy 3 of these. So I thought 'why not give this a try'. Calibration was easy and I then went on to measure my 3 2015 wines. As expected, the Cab came in acidic, with a pH of 3.25. They Syrah and Petite Sirah were 3.97 and 3.91. So now I have a decision to make: try to reduce the Cab's acidity by cold stabilizing, or simply blend it away with the Syrah and PS. A 60/30/10 Cab/Syrah/PS would mathematically get me to around 3.53. So I'm thinking about that - subject to bench trials, of course. 

Back to that little meter though: I'm pretty impressed with how quickly it locked in to a measurement. After measuring each wine, I rinsed it with distilled water and tested it again in each of my calibration solutions. It locked right in, +/- 0.01. So I'm pretty happy so far.


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## sour_grapes

Boatboy24 said:


> A 60/30/10 Cab/Syrah/PS would mathematically get me to around 3.53. So I'm thinking about that - subject to bench trials, of course.



Well, not exactly. Because the _p_H scale is logarithmic, you cannot take the simple weighted average of the _p_H's. Instead, you should exponentiate the negative of each number, then take an average, then take the negative logarithm to find the average _p_H. To convince yourself of this, consider what you would get if you took a 50/50 mixture of concentrated hydrochloric acid (2.0) and water (7.0). The resultant _p_H would certainly not be 4.5! Instead, it is 2.3.


I went ahead and did the proper average for you, and find that your 60/30/10 blend would get you to 3.42.


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## Boatboy24

sour_grapes said:


> Well, not exactly. Because the _p_H scale is logarithmic, you cannot take the simple weighted average of the _p_H's. Instead, you should exponentiate the negative of each number, then take an average, then take the negative logarithm to find the average _p_H. To convince yourself of this, consider what you would get if you took a 50/50 mixture of concentrated hydrochloric acid (2.0) and water (7.0). The resultant _p_H would certainly not be 4.5! Instead, it is 2.3.
> 
> 
> I went ahead and did the proper average for you, and find that your 60/30/10 blend would get you to 3.42.



I was hoping I could just skip to the end and get the answer. Thanks for providing that.  (I did read your entire explanation though - it was just over my head)


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## ibglowin

Although a fun exercise to do on paper also an impossible one to accurately try and figure out as there is no easy way to know or calculate the buffering capacity of a wine due to various amounts of potassium levels in each wine.

Blend it via bench trial if you wish or blend it all and let er roll.


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## Boatboy24

OK, back on Jan 16th, I added about 4g of potassium carbonate to a 1 gallon jug of the cabernet. It's been sitting in the garage since then. Last night, I racked it out of that container and brought it back to the comfort of the winery. I will test the pH tonight, but comparing the untreated wine in the 6 gallon carboy to the 1 gallon treated sample, I have two VERY different wines. The latter is much smoother, with less acidity and more fruit - at less than 5 months of age, it's already a pretty darn good Cabernet. I think this was successful and after testing the pH tonight, will likely treat the remaining 6 gallons and move it to the garage for a few weeks. 

What will be interesting to see is if MLF kicks off in the 1 gallon sample, now that the acid appears to have been reduced.


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## ibglowin

Can you detect any off tastes at all or salt?


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## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> Can you detect any off tastes at all or salt?



Nope. 

But will double check tonight, looking specifically for that.


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## ibglowin

I have a couple red wines from the Fall that the pH after fermentation were down close to 3.1 and they are not budging on MLF. So I may try this as well soon.


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## geek

Jim,

What did you end up doing with that Petite Syrah with that high PH of 3.91?
That's like mine around 3.89

Did you check the TA, what is it?


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> Jim,
> 
> What did you end up doing with that Petite Syrah with that high PH of 3.91?
> That's like mine around 3.89
> 
> Did you check the TA, what is it?



I haven't adjusted that or the Syrah yet. Both have completed MLF and have been stabilized. I'll probably do some bench trials with a little Tartaric Acid added in a few months and go from there.


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## geek

Boatboy24 said:


> I haven't adjusted that or the Syrah yet. Both have completed MLF and have been stabilized. I'll probably do some bench trials with a little Tartaric Acid added in a few months and go from there.




But what is the TA? Just wondering...,


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> But what is the TA? Just wondering...,



Syrah and PS were 0.55 prior to fermentation. I added TA to get me halfway to 0.65, but haven't measured since.

Cabernet was 0.65 prior to fermentation. Did not adjust.

TA was measured by looking for the color change and not by pH, so I may have been off.


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## Johnd

Boatboy24 said:


> Syrah and PS were 0.55 prior to fermentation. I added TA to get me halfway to 0.65, but haven't measured since.
> 
> Cabernet was 0.65 prior to fermentation. Did not adjust.
> 
> TA was measured by looking for the color change and not by pH, so I may have been off.



I did a canned blackberry wine as an experiment and had higher Ph and low TA prior to fermentation, did the same thing you did, adjusted half way. 

Few weeks later, post fermentation, ran the Ph and TA and was surprised that my halfway adjustment and the fermentation process had taken me all of the way to where I wanted to be. Lot to be said for taking it slow................


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## Boatboy24

Racked the cab from the garage this morning and had a boatload of crystals. Wine is tasting MUCH better. I'll double check later for 'salts', but again, I think I succeeded with this. I added 2oz of Medium French cubes and 1oz of American. It'll go into a neutral barrel in a month or so.


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## Boatboy24

Update: 36 hours after racking and bringing it back to the basement, the wine is showing tiny bubbles - almost as if MLF has kicked off. I did add 1/4 tsp of kMeta, but the VP41 supposedly has a tolerance of up to 60ppm.


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## Tnuscan

Boatboy24 said:


> Racked the cab from the garage this morning and had a boatload of crystals. Wine is tasting MUCH better. I'll double check later for 'salts', but again, I think I succeeded with this. I added 2oz of Medium French cubes and 1oz of American. It'll go into a neutral barrel in a month or so.



May I ask what have your temps in garage been averaging?


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## Boatboy24

Tnuscan said:


> May I ask what have your temps in garage been averaging?



Well, last week they were pretty warm - it was pushing 80 here for 3 or 4 days. With the cold, concrete slab in there and the door closed, it was probably in the mid 60's. Prior to that, I'd say they were in the 40's. After the first few cold days in the garage, I wrapped the carboy in a few towels to keep the temps a little more stable.


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## Boatboy24

OK, the Cab went into my newest Vadai over the weekend. Third wine in (previous two were kits). It is tasting very, very good now, so I think the potassium carbonate and cold stabilizing was a success. I need to test pH to be sure, but there was a dramatic difference in the taste.


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## ibglowin

Looking forward to your numbers.

I think I am going to try blending my "problem" away LOL. I racked the last of my boys this past weekend. My Grenache turned out to be a problem child. I suspect just not ready to be picked and they did as the bulk of the grapes were good to go so pull everything. Sigh...... 

Starting numbers were ~ 23 brix and TA 0.6 and pH ~ 3.3. Just ugly so I let it ride as is and only added a bit of simple syrup to bump the sugar up. Ended up with a pH around 3.2 and now is tasting pretty darn tart. Luckily I have 6 gallons of Syrah with pH ~ 3.7 to play with. I plan on a bench trial with 40% Grenache, 40% Syrah and 20% Cab Sauv (pH ~3.65). 

Hopefully that will work out well if not, plan "B" is some K2CO3.


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## ceeaton

ibglowin said:


> Starting numbers were ~ 23 brix and TA 0.6 and pH ~ 3.3.



Mike, for educational purposes, should the pH normally be around 3.5 or so on the Grenache? Thanks.


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## ibglowin

For the area my fruit came from the brix should have been ~26 or so and the pH around 3.6-3.8.


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## geek

Boatboy24 said:


> OK, the Cab went into my newest Vadai over the weekend. Third wine in (previous two were kits). It is tasting very, very good now, so I think the potassium carbonate and cold stabilizing was a success. I need to test pH to be sure, but there was a dramatic difference in the taste.



was that low in PH?


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> was that low in PH?



It had been reading 3.25 and was tasting very sour. I added potassium carbonate and cold stabilized in the garage for about 4 weeks in Feb/March


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## geek

Boatboy24 said:


> It had been reading 3.25 and was tasting very sour. I added potassium carbonate and cold stabilized in the garage for about 4 weeks in Feb/March



What was the TA?


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## Boatboy24

I got .65 when I pitched the yeast. Haven't checked since. It was after fermentation that I noticed the harsh, acidic flavor.


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## geek

Jim, 

was re-reading your posts about the cab sav and the harsh taste before adding potassium carbonate.

Two questions:
1.to the sample 1gal jug you tested, how high did the PH go to?
2.how high did you go with the PH on the remainder carboy by adding potassium carbonate before you did the CS?


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> Jim,
> 
> was re-reading your posts about the cab sav and the harsh taste before adding potassium carbonate.
> 
> Two questions:
> 1.to the sample 1gal jug you tested, how high did the PH go to?
> 2.how high did you go with the PH on the remainder carboy by adding potassium carbonate before you did the CS?



In both cases, I overshot, hitting 3.9 on the 1 gallon and 3.85 on the rest. Though I'm always skeptical of my pH meter and my ability to effectively use it; going by taste, those numbers could be right. I'd recommend you use half of the amount to get to your desired pH, and re-test from there.


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## geek

I ended at PH=3.64 and stopped, my 6gal batch is now sitting on the cold deck...
Forgot to ask, after CS, did you check the PH?


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> I ended at PH=3.64 and stopped, my 6gal batch is now sitting on the cold deck...
> Forgot to ask, after CS, did you check the PH?



Those numbers are after CS. I didn't measure after the addition, but before CS.


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## geek

Boatboy24 said:


> Those numbers are after CS. I didn't measure after the addition, but before CS.



Wait, got confused.....


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## geek

I assume you meant after, you said before CS.


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## sour_grapes

He meant that he did not measure the _p_H just after adding carbonate; he waited until after CS to measure.


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## geek

That is what I thought but "Those numbers are after CS. I didn't measure after the addition, *but before CS*." the '*before CS*" would mean after the addition, wouldn't it.....


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## NCWC

I have 2 carboys of Montipuciello, it taste very tart the odd thing is the PH is 3.62 and the TA is 10.4 I have tested both numbers a few times different days. TA 10.8 10.6 10.4 the PH consistent 3.62-3.65

i was going to take out 1 gal and add potassium carbonate and see if it improves. Any thoughts on how the TA can be so high?


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## Boatboy24

NCWC said:


> I have 2 carboys of Montipuciello, it taste very tart the odd thing is the PH is 3.62 and the TA is 10.4 I have tested both numbers a few times different days. TA 10.8 10.6 10.4 the PH consistent 3.62-3.65
> 
> i was going to take out 1 gal and add potassium carbonate and see if it improves. Any thoughts on how the TA can be so high?



That TA is crazy high. Are you going by color when testing, or by pH?

I did exactly as you mentioned, testing on 1 gallon first. This time of year though, I have nowhere to cold stabilize after the addition. I put my carboys in the garage for CS.


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## NCWC

No I have a Milwaukee Mi456 test equipment
calibrated twice too!
Also have a Milwaukee Mi455 So tester and a Hanna PH probe


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## dcbrown73

Very interesting thread! Thanks for sharing!

I'm pretty sure I would have a very difficult time trying to make wine from grapes without anyone to help me through it. There is just way to much stuff I don't know.


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## Boatboy24

dcbrown73 said:


> Very interesting thread! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> I'm pretty sure I would have a very difficult time trying to make wine from grapes without anyone to help me through it. There is just way to much stuff I don't know.



It's easy, really. But I took baby steps getting there. Started with kits, then on to juice buckets with some added grapes, then on to full grapes. Pretty painless transition, learning along the way.


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## ceeaton

dcbrown73 said:


> Very interesting thread! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> I'm pretty sure I would have a very difficult time trying to make wine from grapes without anyone to help me through it. There is just way to much stuff I don't know.



I agree with Jim. With his and a few others helping me here, the transition to an all grape batch last fall was rather painless and fun to boot! I still think a juice bucket with a lug of grapes can't be beat (price vs. quality). So much so I have to go tip that carboy of Merlot/Cab Sauv/Malbec and take a sample. It's been a least 23 hours since I did that last. Don't want that batch getting away from me.


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## NCWC

I have not tried kit wine for at least 3 years maybe 4, making wine from grapes is awesome. I can barely drink store bought commercial wine anymore. I guess I got use to ours


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## Boatboy24

Blending decisions will be made this weekend. For those interested, I have Cab Sauv, Syrah and Petite Sirah. Any suggestions? I'm not planning to get too fancy, but as a starting point here's what I'm thinking:

1) 60% Cab Sauv, 30% Syrah, 10% PS
2) 60% Syrah, 30% Cab, 10% PS


I'll also do some Cab and Syrah as single varietal, with 5-10% PS mixed int.


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## geek

Jim, how's the pH on that PS?
Just interested to know and compare to mine high at 3.7x


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## Boatboy24

Well, the Cab and Syrah came out of their barrels on Saturday. Yesterday, I mixed up 4 blends and took them to Dad, so we could sample and pick a favorite. They were as follows in order of Syrah/Cab/Petite Sirah:

75/20/5
60/30/10
45/45/10
30/60/10

Even though I was able to fix the acidity on the Cab, it still seems rather 'bright' to me. Because of this, I figured my favorite would be #1 or #2. Surprisingly, I liked 3 and 4 the best. Dad liked 1 and 4. I felt like all of them would benefit from a little more Petite Sirah. In the end, I think I'm going to do two blends, based on #1 and #4: First will be 70/20/10 and the second will be 30/57/13. Now to figure out the best way to measure these out...




geek said:


> Jim, how's the pH on that PS?
> Just interested to know and compare to mine high at 3.7x



Sorry, Varis. Keep neglecting to measure. I had a .55 TA at the start, but didn't measure pH. Will try to do that this week.


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## jgmann67

I read through this thread in anticipation of my Lanza P.S. Grape delivery sometime this month. 

There's a lot more involved in fresh grapes than kits.


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## Boatboy24

jgmann67 said:


> I read through this thread in anticipation of my Lanza P.S. Grape delivery sometime this month.
> 
> There's a lot more involved in fresh grapes than kits.



You've got this!

1) Crush grapes (Harford does that for you)
2) Measure/Adjust Brix (get a refractometer from Amazon now, if you don't have one)
3) Measure/adjust pH
4) Sulfite to 50ppm (roughly 1/4 tsp for 3 lugs)
5) Wait 24 hours
6) Pitch Yeast
7) Daily punchdowns
8) Press
9) MLB

From there, just like a kit.


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## jgmann67

Boatboy24 said:


> You've got this!
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Crush grapes (Harford does that for you)
> 
> 2) Measure/Adjust Brix (get a refractometer from Amazon now, if you don't have one)
> 
> 3) Measure/adjust pH
> 
> 4) Sulfite to 50ppm (roughly 1/4 tsp for 3 lugs)
> 
> 5) Wait 24 hours
> 
> 6) Pitch Yeast
> 
> 7) Daily punchdowns
> 
> 8) Press
> 
> 9) MLB
> 
> 
> 
> From there, just like a kit.




It's 3 and 9 that give me pause... I think I've done the rest. Gotta get a big punish for my 20 gal brute. Craig has graciously volunteered to walk me through it, though... I'll be fine, just nervous.


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## Boatboy24

You're in good hands. 9 is nothing to worry about. Almost as easy as alcoholic fermentation, though not as obvious when its going on. 3 is no big deal - especially if last year was any indication. The Lanza grapes had very good numbers.


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## cmason1957

I argee with Jim, MLB inoculation is not really a big deal. Keep your temps reasonable, add the bacteria, some nutrient, stir every so often for two to three months. Don't get excited by that time and low sulfite. It just happens, unless it is Merlot, sometimes those grapes just don't like to kick off MLF.

Adjusting Ph isn't any harder than adding or removing acids. No big deal.


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## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> You've got this!
> 
> 1) Crush grapes (Harford does that for you)
> 2) Measure/Adjust Brix (get a refractometer from Amazon now, if you don't have one)
> 3) Measure/adjust pH
> 4) Sulfite to 50ppm (roughly 1/4 tsp for 3 lugs)
> 5) Wait 24 hours
> 6) Pitch Yeast
> 7) Daily punchdowns
> 8) Press
> 9) MLB
> 
> From there, just like a kit.



Only thing I'll add,

5a) Add Lallzyme EX or EX-V (jgm - I have some already for you)
5b) Wait 12 more hours

I've really liked the finished color in my red wines that I've used that on (Merlot/Dornfelder/PN).

@jgmann67 , no worries about pH and such, we'll do an early pH and TA measurement when you get them home. When they sit on the skins those may change a bit, but if they seem out of whack that is a good time to make a "1/2 way" adjustment towards optimum numbers. Where will be get those numbers, by posting right here! If you do get a refractometer that will be one tool I will borrow (or send samples up with my brother so you can measure).

Also on 9), I'll take a sample home with me so we can get pre-MLF Chromatography on both of our wines. I've changed my mind after reading a few things on MoreWines site, I'm leaving my MLF until after fermentation is complete or mostly complete, since it has worked fine in the past. The only thing you might want to order are some nutrients for the MLB. I think I have some Acti-ML for rehydrating, if you choose to rehydrate and not sprinkle.

Edit: Boatboy Jim, sorry for hijacking the thread. We will post questions here if jg-Jim doesn't start a thread. Start thinking of optimum pH and TA for his PS grapes, I have an idea but am by no means an expert, just a blind squirrel that finds a nut occasionally.


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## Boatboy24

ceeaton said:


> Only thing I'll add,
> 
> 5a) Add Lallzyme EX or EX-V (jgm - I have some already for you)
> 5b) Wait 12 more hours
> 
> I've really liked the finished color in my red wines that I've used that on (Merlot/Dornfelder/PN).
> 
> @jgmann67 , no worries about pH and such, we'll do an early pH and TA measurement when you get them home. When they sit on the skins those may change a bit, but if they seem out of whack that is a good time to make a "1/2 way" adjustment towards optimum numbers. Where will be get those numbers, by posting right here! If you do get a refractometer that will be one tool I will borrow (or send samples up with my brother so you can measure).
> 
> Also on 9), I'll take a sample home with me so we can get pre-MLF Chromatography on both of our wines. I've changed my mind after reading a few things on MoreWines site, I'm leaving my MLF until after fermentation is complete or mostly complete, since it has worked fine in the past. The only thing you might want to order are some nutrients for the MLB. I think I have some Acti-ML for rehydrating, if you choose to rehydrate and not sprinkle.
> 
> Edit: Boatboy Jim, sorry for hijacking the thread. We will post questions here if jg-Jim doesn't start a thread. Start thinking of optimum pH and TA for his PS grapes, I have an idea but am by no means an expert, just a blind squirrel that finds a nut occasionally.



Agree on 5a/b. I use Lallzyme as well, along with OptiRed (just not at the same time)

Blending of the 2015's happened last weekend. Labels should be arriving tomorrow, and we will bottle Saturday or Sunday. Gotta clear out some carboy space!


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## Boatboy24

We bottled ten gallons yesterday - two 5gal batches. There is still 3 gallons of Petite Sirah and 3 gallons of a Cab/Syrah/PS blend, with a little 2014 Zin to top up. Rain today so it looks like my son's baseball game may be cancelled. If so, I'll try to bottle up those two remaining batches.


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## Boatboy24

Well, got the first ten gallons foiled and labeled today. My oldest helped, which was nice. Still haven't bottled those last two 3 gallon carboys. But this vintage is just about done.


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## jgmann67

Looks good!


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## geek

Very nice labels


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> Very nice labels



Stoney Creek strikes again!


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## geek

Did you say how much you end up paying per label shipped? Maybe you did..,[emoji4]


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## Boatboy24

geek said:


> Did you say how much you end up paying per label shipped? Maybe you did..,[emoji4]



Unfortunately, at the quantities I need, it's a little more than a buck a label. But I sometimes splurge. In this case, these wines, while a little aggressive now are going to be great in a year or two (I think), and these were the first ones that my dad worked on with me. The golf course label is the blend the he picked out. The kids call him 'Pahpi' - like David Ortiz.


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