# New barrel prep



## JohnT

I am preparing my second new barrel. Here is what I am planning to do.. 

Sanitizing:
- I made a strong k-meta solution with 5 tblsp k-meta / 1 gallon water. I added this into the barrel, coated the inside by moving/rolling the barrel. 

- I then bunged the barrel and allowed the SO2 to do its job for 24 hours. 

- I then drained the barrel.

Swelling:
- I then put 5 gallons of hot water inside the barrel, stood the barrel on end, and added a gallon of hot water to the barrel head. I did this so that both barrel heads would swell evenly. I did this to both sides of the barrel.

- I then drained the water from inside the barrel, added 3 tbsp. k-meta, and then filled the barrel with cold water. 


** I plan on keeping the barrel filled with water for a week. I want to retard the amount of bitter oak that the wine might pick up.


Any tips, hints, or evaluations on what I am doing? Here is a picture. The barrel did not leak a single drop of water when I filled it.


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## Boatboy24

That is pretty much what I do. I skip the initial sanitizing, but do keep it filled for 3-7 days with KMeta/water before use.


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## thruhike00

I cleaned mine, water soaked a few days, then put into service with a chardonnay first. Popped a cork last night and it was like chewing on a tree. Only had it in the barrel a week. Any idea how long the oak will take to fade, or should I plan on mixing with another batch?
Thanks.

Age will fade the oak some. if it way overly oaked, however, I would recommend that you blend it out.

Could you please let me know the specific?? How big (volume) was the barrel. Is this the only oaking medium you used? Did you add any other type of oak? What wood and toast did your barrel have?


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## FTC Wines

John, thank for this thread. I ordered my first barrel yesterday. I'll need all the info I can get. Roy


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## JohnT

Folks, 

Thanks for confirming that I am doing the right thing. I did a little tasting with the brother over the weekend. After only a week, there was only a very imperceptible hint of oak. 

This is just what I am look to get. A very long and slow oaking!!! The wine is unbelievable already (at only 4 months of age)!

Here is a pic. I filled the barrel from a 300 liter tank, and had enough left over for a demijohn and about 4 gallons (in various "top off" jugs).


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## fafrd

JohnT said:


> I am preparing my second new barrel. Here is what I am planning to do..
> 
> Sanitizing:
> - I made a strong k-meta solution with 5 tblsp k-meta / 1 gallon water. I added this into the barrel, coated the inside by moving/rolling the barrel.
> 
> - I then bunged the barrel and allowed the SO2 to do its job for 24 hours.
> 
> - I then drained the barrel.
> 
> Swelling:
> - I then put 5 gallons of hot water inside the barrel, stood the barrel on end, and added a gallon of hot water to the barrel head. I did this so that both barrel heads would swell evenly. I did this to both sides of the barrel.
> 
> - I then drained the water from inside the barrel, added 3 tbsp. k-meta, and then filled the barrel with cold water.
> 
> 
> ** *I plan on keeping the barrel filled with water for a week. I want to retard the amount of bitter oak that the wine might pick up.*
> 
> 
> Any tips, hints, or evaluations on what I am doing? Here is a picture. The barrel did not leak a single drop of water when I filled it.



I'm gearing up for my first new barrel next winter/spring and beginning my research.

A few questions for you:

Why did you sanitize prior to swelling? Looks like you sanitized again after swelling and I believe new barrels are supposed to arrive relatively sanitary, so what were you thinking the first-step sanitation cycle was going to achieve?

I assume that is a 60-gallon barrel, right? What kind of Oak?

'Retarding the amount of bitter oak the wine may pick up' - are off/bitter flavors from new oak a common experience? If so, is a week filled with water+SO2 the generally accepted technique to avoid that?

Would a longer initial period filled with water+SO2 be better if possible?

How long did you end up leaving your wine in the barrel and what type of winecwas it?

I'm planning a pretty heavy cab/merlot blend for my new 60-gal barrel but a bit concerned with how long I'm be able to age it in the barrel without over-oaking...


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## Johnd

FWIW, here are the instructions furnished by Vadai for new barrels, this is the procedure I have always followed, never had any problems:

BARREL PREP INSTRUCTIONS

PREPARATION FOR NEW TOASTED BARRELS PRIOR TO USE
Do Not Remove the Saran Wrap from the barrel until you are ready to prep the barrel with our Barrel Prep Instructions and Store The Barrel In A Cool Place to keep the wood from drying out.

Prep your barrel just before you are going to put your wine in the barrel, otherwise if your barrel is not in use after you prep it, you will have to treat your barrel with the Barrel Prep After Use Instructions using sulfite so no bacteria forms in the barrel while it is sitting around waiting for the winemaking procedure.

HOW TO PREPARE THE BARREL BEFORE PUTTING WINE IN IT
Tighten the hoops if they are loose. Start with the belly hoops up to the head hoops.
We tighten all of the hoops if they are loose at our warehouse before we ship your barrel.

WATER TREATMENT
Put boiling hot water on the head of the upright barrel 30 minutes.
Do the same on the other head.
Repeat the boiling hot water procedure on the heads one more time.
Put 3/10th of the barrel measurement of hot boiling water inside the barrel.
Put the bung in place and stand the barrel on each head about 30 minutes.
Do not stand in front of the bung because the pressure of the steam could shoot the bung out like a bullet and could hurt someone or damage something.
Roll the barrel slowly on its belly so the boiling water hits all of the staves.
Keep the boiling hot water in the barrel for 2 to 3 hours.
Pour the water out of the barrel. 
Lie the barrel down on it's side with the bung opening in the upright position.
Fill the barrel completely with tap water.
Fill the barrel daily with tap water and keep it full until the barrel does not show any leakage or wetness outside of the barrel. At least 3 to 5 days.
You must add sulfite to the water proportionately to your barrel size if you have to soak your barrel more than 3 days so no germ can develop in the barrel during the barrel soaking process.
If the barrel shows any wetness the second day or after that, the winemaker should extend the soaking to at least 7 days or as many days as it is required to stop the leakage. 

After the barrel has stopped leaking, soak the barrel a minimum of 3 to 5 more days. 
The acidity in the wine or brandy will find the smallest hole and cause a leak if the barrel is not soaked well enough.
If you do not soak your barrels properly with water, you will loose some of your wine & brandy because it will soak into the barrel wood.
If the barrel was leaking water more than 2 days, "DO NOT PUT WINE IN YOUR BARREL."


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## Johny99

I also follow the Vadai procedures. I've had one leaker I fixed with garlic, yes it worked, and one with bees wax. If you are concerned with the initial flush of tannins you can fill it with really hot water with meta for a week or so, or as I now prefer, ferment a white in it then fill with your red. 

Oh wait, a new service - ship it to me this fall, I'll condition it and ferment a nice white in it and then send it to you:: I can't afford new barrels for all my whites!


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## JohnT

fafrd said:


> Why did you sanitize prior to swelling? Looks like you sanitized again after swelling and I believe new barrels are supposed to arrive relatively sanitary, so what were you thinking the first-step sanitation cycle was going to achieve?


 
The first round is to sanitize the wood. Although new, there is no telling just how sanitary the wood is on the inside. Rather safe then sorry. 

After this sanitizing step, the plan was to fill the barrel with water to soak the for a week. Adding a second dose of k-meta was to sanitize the water in the barrel.



fafrd said:


> I assume that is a 60-gallon barrel, right? What kind of Oak?


 
Yes, a brand new 225 liter barrel - Med. Toast American Oak. My local had a sale on them ($350).



fafrd said:


> 'Retarding the amount of bitter oak the wine may pick up' - are off/bitter flavors from new oak a common experience? If so, is a week filled with water+SO2 the generally accepted technique to avoid that?


 
I do not know if it is a full blown accepted practice, but my goal was to maximize the flavor components that reside deeper in the wood and minimize the components that lay closer to the surface. 

The week long soak was more for allowing the wood to swell up tight and I saw this as a potential benefit.




fafrd said:


> Would a longer initial period filled with water+SO2 be better if possible?


 
I do not know. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.



fafrd said:


> How long did you end up leaving your wine in the barrel and what type of winecwas it?


 
The wine is still in the barrel. I had my brother taste it last Saturday and he said that it was coming along nicely. (I did not taste it because it is lent). My goal is to barrel age it for a year.



fafrd said:


> I'm planning a pretty heavy cab/merlot blend for my new 60-gal barrel but a bit concerned with how long I'm be able to age it in the barrel without over-oaking...


 
Most folks barrel age wine based on the total volume of the barrel and according to individual tastes. 

There is, however, a ratio of wine volume to inner surface area of a barrel. The smaller the barrel, the higher the ratio.

In other words, the smaller the barrel, the more oaking you can expect. 

A good rule of thumb is to plan on barrel aging for 1 week per gallon of volume. So, plan on 5 weeks for a 5 gallon barrel and 60 weeks for a 60 gallon barrel. 

I use this rule of thumb for planning purposes only. There are a lot of variables at play here such as chemical composition of the wine, temperature in which the wine is stored, and number of times that the barrel was used. 

In short, do not fully rely on this rule of thumb. Instead, do regular tastings. You should be opening up the barrel periodically to top the barrel off, so make it a point to taste the wine and take it out of the barrel when you feel that you have enough oak.


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## fafrd

JohnT said:


> The first round is to sanitize the wood. Although new, there is no telling just how sanitary the wood is on the inside. Rather safe then sorry.



Got it, thanks. My new barrel is closed with a plastic bung and has a sticker that says 'Caution - this barrel contains sulpher dioxide'.

I spoke to the manufacturer and they claim that as long as the inside of the barrel is kept dry, nothing can get established in there. They do recommend filling with water+SO2 to keep it sanitary while swelling for 1-2 days but say there is no need for pre-sanitation.



> After this sanitizing step, the plan was to fill the barrel with water to soak the for a week. Adding a second dose of k-meta was to sanitize the water in the barrel.
> 
> Yes, a brand new 225 liter barrel - Med. Toast American Oak. My local had a sale on them ($350).
> 
> I do not know if it is a full blown accepted practice, but my goal was to maximize the flavor components that reside deeper in the wood and minimize the components that lay closer to the surface.



Any experience with flavors associated with 'surface components' being less desirable?



> The week long soak was more for allowing the wood to swell up tight and I saw this as a potential benefit.


 
Oh, so the week-long soak had nothing particular to do with the goal of avoiding flavors associated with surface components. One of my older books, 'From Vines to Wines' calls for treating new barrels with soda ash, vigorously rolling a half-full barrel for 'at least half an hour' and then filling the rest of the way and letting stand for 24 hours to leach 'harsh, intense, oak components from the wood.'

This does not seem to be common practise any more and I'm trying to understand why.



> The wine is still in the barrel. I had my brother taste it last Saturday and he said that it was coming along nicely. (I did not taste it because it is lent). My goal is to barrel age it for a year.



What kind of wine is it? A year in a new 225L American Oak Barrel is exactly what I am contemplating. If the wine becomes overoaked before then and has to be pulled from the barrel, I've got no wine to replace it immediately, so it'll be a headache. I'll keep tabs on how yours progresses since I don't have to finalize decisions before this fall..





> Most folks barrel age wine based on the total volume of the barrel and according to individual tastes.
> 
> There is, however, a ratio of wine volume to inner surface area of a barrel. The smaller the barrel, the higher the ratio.
> 
> In other words, the smaller the barrel, the more oaking you can expect.
> 
> A good rule of thumb is to plan on barrel aging for 1 week per gallon of volume. So, plan on 5 weeks for a 5 gallon barrel and 60 weeks for a 60 gallon barrel.
> 
> I use this rule of thumb for planning purposes only. There are a lot of variables at play here such as chemical composition of the wine, temperature in which the wine is stored, and number of times that the barrel was used.
> 
> In short, do not fully rely on this rule of thumb. Instead, do regular tastings. You should be opening up the barrel periodically to top the barrel off, so *make it a point to taste the wine and take it out of the barrel when you feel that you have enough oak*.



All of that is correct but applies primarily to microxidation/concentration. Once a barrel is neutral or even a couple years old, the oak flavoring is unlikely to outpace the microox/concentration so you can pretty safely mature for as long as desired (subject to having sufficient top-off wine ).

With a new barrel, the limit on time in the barrel is very likely to be limited by the intensity of oak flavoring rather than mocrooxidation/concentration.

I'm just trying to get a feel for how likely it is that I'll think there is enough oak flavor from my new barrel and want to pull the wine from it before a year is up and I have new wine ready to fill it. I'm planning a heavy cab blend to improve the chances I can get through a full year without over oaking, but any similar experience from winemakers like you is very helpful.


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## JohnT

fafrd said:


> Got it, thanks. My new barrel is closed with a plastic bung and has a sticker that says 'Caution - this barrel contains sulpher dioxide'.


 
My barrel did not have this. The bung hole just had a piece of tape over it (so I felt that the initial treatment was needed).



fafrd said:


> Any experience with flavors associated with 'surface components' being less desirable?


 
Well, yes. I find that it can be a bit harsh/bitter. Also, my goal is the flavor components that lay below the surface (vanillan compounds that lay just below the char layer. By soaking, my thinking is that I will extract out the (IMO undesired) flavor components at the surface. This is not the MAIN goal. The most important reason for doing this is to ensure that the barrel is properly swelled.




fafrd said:


> Oh, so the week-long soak had nothing particular to do with the goal of avoiding flavors associated with surface components. One of my older books, 'From Vines to Wines' calls for treating new barrels with soda ash, vigorously rolling a half-full barrel for 'at least half an hour' and then filling the rest of the way and letting stand for 24 hours to leach 'harsh, intense, oak components from the wood.'
> 
> This does not seem to be common practise any more and I'm trying to understand why.


 
Actually, IMHO, it has plenty to do with avoiding flavors. All I am saying is that the most important reason is to ensure a properly swelled barrel.




fafrd said:


> What kind of wine is it? A year in a new 225L American Oak Barrel is exactly what I am contemplating. If the wine becomes overoaked before then and has to be pulled from the barrel, I've got no wine to replace it immediately, so it'll be a headache. I'll keep tabs on how yours progresses since I don't have to finalize decisions before this fall..


 
I have a Chilean Cabernet / Merlot blend (85:15). 

I macerated for 6 days, had AWESOME color extraction, put through MLF and did 2 rackings prior to it going from my tank to the barrel. 

How about this.. Delay putting wine into your barrel for 5 months or so. This way, you could go with barrel aging for as little as 7 months (until the next batch of wine (in theory) is ready for the barrel. 

For me: 

The wine was crushed in late May '16, and placed in the barrel in August '16. I plan to do this again in May and can transfer that to the barrel as early as late June(if need be). By delaying, I feel that I gave myself some options.




fafrd said:


> All of that is correct but applies primarily to microxidation/concentration. Once a barrel is neutral or even a couple years old, the oak flavoring is unlikely to outpace the microox/concentration so you can pretty safely mature for as long as desired (subject to having sufficient top-off wine ).
> 
> With a new barrel, the limit on time in the barrel is very likely to be limited by the intensity of oak flavoring rather than mocrooxidation/concentration.
> 
> I'm just trying to get a feel for how likely it is that I'll think there is enough oak flavor from my new barrel and want to pull the wine from it before a year is up and I have new wine ready to fill it. I'm planning a heavy cab blend to improve the chances I can get through a full year without over oaking, but any similar experience from winemakers like you is very helpful.


 
I find that I am getting good oak even on my third batch (third year of use). You are correct, that the oak is rather intense during the first use. This is another reason for the week long soak, to try any soften that initial oak.

I had my third year batch in the barrel for 18 months and is now ready to bottle. GEE WILL THIS LENT EVER END???????? I desperately need to do some tasting!


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## fafrd

JohnT said:


> My barrel did not have this. The bung hole just had a piece of tape over it (so I felt that the initial treatment was needed).
> 
> Well, yes. I find that it can be a bit harsh/bitter. Also, my goal is the flavor components that lay below the surface (vanillan compounds that lay just below the char layer. By soaking, my thinking is that I will extract out the (IMO undesired) flavor components at the surface. This is not the MAIN goal. The most important reason for doing this is to ensure that the barrel is properly swelled.
> 
> 
> Actually, IMHO, it has plenty to do with avoiding flavors. All I am saying is that the most important reason is to ensure a properly swelled barrel.



Got it. Soak at least a week to swell barrel, possibly longer to leach harsher components from the surface. I think I read that a solution of SO2 can be kept in a barrel for up to a month without needing to be refreshed, so seems as though if you want to 'waste' a bit more of the oaking potential of a new barrel, you coukd soak for another 2-3 weeks without additional effort.




> I have a Chilean Cabernet / Merlot blend (85:15).
> 
> I macerated for 6 days, had AWESOME color extraction, put through MLF and did 2 rackings prior to it going from my tank to the barrel.



Cool - that is very similar to the blend I am planning for this new barrel: 80% Cab; 10-15% Merlot; 5-10% Malbec; and 0-3% Petit Verdot depending on whether I can find a source or not.

Will be very interested to hear how you liked American Oak with that Cab blend and how long you ended up oaking it in your new barrel.




> How about this.. Delay putting wine into your barrel for 5 months or so. This way, you could go with barrel aging for as little as 7 months (until the next batch of wine (in theory) is ready for the barrel.



Yeah, I've thought of that. And as an escape hatch, I suppose there is always the sulfer gas maintenaince (or filling with SO2/water if you are still trying to tone things down.

The downside is that the entire reason I'm moving to a barrel is concentration, and less time in the barrel equals less concentration.

For a blend like this, SilverOak uses 85% new American Oak barrels for 2 years (and 15% 'used-once' barrels), so that's making me think that a full year in a new barrel should be OK and if not, having an additional 15% / 10-gallons of unoaked wine to blend back with should be a solid fall-back plan.

I just have no idea how quickly the oak flavors will develop in a new barrel...




> For me:
> 
> The wine was crushed in late May '16, and placed in the barrel in August '16. I plan to do this again in May and can transfer that to the barrel as early as late June(if need be). By delaying, I feel that I gave myself some options.



OK, so you delayed by 4-6 weeks, and will go a full year. I'm planning to get through MLF and will probably not go into my barrel until at least 3-6 post-crush.




> I find that I am getting good oak even on my third batch (third year of use). *You are correct, that the oak is rather intense during the first use. * This is another reason for the week long soak, to try any soften that initial oak.
> 
> I had my third year batch in the barrel for 18 months and is now ready to bottle. GEE WILL THIS LENT EVER END???????? I desperately need to do some tasting!



OK, so batch 3 (currently in barrel) has been in 18 months, is still getting nice oak, and should be bottled soon. Is that the 85%/15% Cab/Merlot blend?

What type of wine was batch 2 and how long was it in the barrel? 12 months?

And what type of wine was batch 1 and how long was it in the barrel? I'm most interested in anything you can tell me regarding your experience with the first wine you put through your new barrel.


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## JohnT

Here is the history of my first barrel..

The first batch was 2013 blend (Petit Sarah, Merlot, and Sangiovesse). Since the barrel was already tight and was not leaking at all, and not knowing any better, I did a water soak for only 2 days. I aged the wine in the barrel for about 11 months and it came out slightly over-oaked. Since it has been bottled, the oakiness has faded and the wine is rather nice, but still a little bitter and tannic. 

I made the same blend in 2014 and aged in the same barrel (after a good cleaning) for a full year. This came out unbelievable and has won several awards in competition. 

I now currently have a different blend in the barrel (a Cab/Merlot/Petit sarah). My plan is to barrel age this for up to 18 months. It all depends on how it is tasting. 

Going forward, I want to age 2 years on the next batch. 


My second barrel has the Chilean cab/merlot blend.


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## jburtner

How often do you guys top up? How much loss expected or experienced over a year / 18mos / 24 mos?

I have a 5gal Vadai enroute so am interested to see how it works out with oaking, micro-ox, and losses, etc. I have read with that size you typically do 4wk, 8wk, 4 months, 8 Months, oaking periods or similar - essentially almost doubling the ageing period each go around up till about two years total use before neutral.

Thanks!
-johann


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## Johnd

jburtner said:


> How often do you guys top up? How much loss expected or experienced over a year / 18mos / 24 mos?
> 
> I have a 5gal Vadai enroute so am interested to see how it works out with oaking, micro-ox, and losses, etc. I have read with that size you typically do 4wk, 8wk, 4 months, 8 Months, oaking periods or similar - essentially almost doubling the ageing period each go around up till about two years total use before neutral.
> 
> Thanks!
> -johann



Only comment is about the 8 month mark, I've been warned that over 6 months oxidation can begin to become a problem. Thus, have never violated the 6 month mark by much. I've had a few wines hit the 6 month mark and I've pulled them out, into a carboy with Wine Stix for some additional oak. I have a wine at 6 months and two weeks right now that I'm planning to pull this weekend.........


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## fafrd

JohnT said:


> Here is the history of my first barrel..
> 
> The first batch was 2013 blend (Petit Sarah, Merlot, and Sangiovesse). Since the barrel was already tight and was not leaking at all, and not knowing any better, I did a water soak for only 2 days. I aged the wine in the barrel for about 11 months and it came out slightly over-oaked. Since it has been bottled, the oakiness has faded and the wine is rather nice, but still a little bitter and tannic.
> 
> I made the same blend in 2014 and aged in the same barrel (after a good cleaning) for a full year. This came out unbelievable and has won several awards in competition.
> 
> I now currently have a different blend in the barrel (a Cab/Merlot/Petit sarah). My plan is to barrel age this for up to 18 months. It all depends on how it is tasting.
> 
> Going forward, I want to age 2 years on the next batch.
> 
> 
> My second barrel has the Chilean cab/merlot blend.



Very helpful, thanks.

Was that first barrel also 60 gallons and American Oak?

So your experience was a bit too much oak after 11 months in a bew American 60-gal barrel, so perhaps ~9 woukd be beeter?

And then after 11 mobths of use with the girst break-in wine, a full year in that 1-year old barrel was perfect.

And now you are planning to age your third vintage in that 2-year-old barrel for 18 months.

so maybe a simple 150% rule fits your experience:

1st wine 8 months to sufficient oak

2nd wine 150% or 12 months to that same level of oakiness

3rd wine 150% of 18 months to that same level of maturity/oakiness.

As you pointed out, I can contril when I first fill the new barrel, so aiming at 8 months instead of 12 may make the transition betwen vintages more easy/natural (delaying moving first wine from VCSS to barrel by 4 months...).


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## Boatboy24

jburtner said:


> How often do you guys top up? How much loss expected or experienced over a year / 18mos / 24 mos?
> 
> I have a 5gal Vadai enroute so am interested to see how it works out with oaking, micro-ox, and losses, etc. I have read with that size you typically do 4wk, 8wk, 4 months, 8 Months, oaking periods or similar - essentially almost doubling the ageing period each go around up till about two years total use before neutral.
> 
> Thanks!
> -johann



I wouldn't go more than 6 months in a barrel that size. 3-4 is probably ideal for most wines. Regarding loss, it's all dependent upon cellar conditions - especially humidity. In the winter, I can lose as much as half a bottle in a couple weeks. In summer, it is probably half that. 

Starting out, your schedule is pretty good, but taste weekly, or at least bi-weekly to be sure. 4 weeks for first wine, 6-8 for 2nd, 8-10 for third, and by then you can go 3 months. And that's about the sweet spot for kit wines. Wines from grapes I tend to leave a little longer, but typically end up around 4. That all depends on both the wine itself, as well as what else I have in the pipeline.


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## jburtner

Estimating one bottle / month loss. That sounds pretty acceptable for top up from stock. Looking forward to filling this one and the next but really looking forward to emptying them!

Cheers and thanks!
-johann


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## fafrd

jburtner said:


> Estimating one bottle / month loss. That sounds pretty acceptable for top up from stock. Looking forward to filling this one and the next but really looking forward to emptying them!
> 
> Cheers and thanks!
> -johann



A 5-gallon barrel is ~24 bottles of wine, so losing a bottle per month to evaporation every month for 8 months translates to an Angel's Share of ~25% (start with 32 bottles-worth to end up with 24).

That sounds like more than twice the level of 'concentration than you'd get out of a 60-gallon barrel even after 2 years...

I've read to plan for 5% Angel's share per year for a full-size barrel, so 10% over 2 years (start with 66-2/3 Gallons-worth, end up with 60).

That's going to be one rich wine


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## jburtner

I found this - which refers to aging whiskey in 2/3/5/10 gallon barrels but worth reading over. Jump to page 62 for some graphs on angel's share over a 270 day or nine month period @ about 17%. They also break it down to % loss in ethanol and water which is v.interesting.

http://bourbonr.com/blog/wp-content...RITS-IN-BARRELS-OF-NON-TRADITIONAL-VOLUME.pdf

This is more than I wanted to lose but will deal with it and top up. Maybe beeswax the outside and ends.

Cheers!
-johann


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## jburtner

My new Vadai has some leaks which have developed after 5 or 6 weeks use. I just put my 3rd wine into it and see these leaks now.... Not terrible but I would like to patch it up if possible. Any ideas on best way to patch this up whilst full of wine?

Thanks!
-johann


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## Johnd

jburtner said:


> My new Vadai has some leaks which have developed after 5 or 6 weeks use. I just put my 3rd wine into it and see these leaks now.... Not terrible but I would like to patch it up if possible. Any ideas on best way to patch this up whilst full of wine?
> 
> Thanks!
> -johann



Some of mine did the same for a while, every now and then I'll still get a little red spot showing up. I just spray a little mist of KMeta solution on it and it disappears, then wipe up the area a bit. As your barrel ages, it'll slow and stop.

I've noticed that my leaks typically show up right after topping up my barrels and have a theory. When I top up, and then insert a solid bung (which is what I use in my barrels), the insertion causes some pressure in the barrel and will cause a little wine to leak in those spots, I just deal with it.


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## ibglowin

Get some wax on those spots. They make a barrel wax you can purchase online. I use canning wax from the grocery store and warm up a small chunk in the microwave for 10 sec. Then just rub it in the leaking area. Problem solved.



jburtner said:


> My new Vadai has some leaks which have developed after 5 or 6 weeks use. I just put my 3rd wine into it and see these leaks now.... Not terrible but I would like to patch it up if possible. Any ideas on best way to patch this up whilst full of wine?
> 
> Thanks!
> -johann


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## jburtner

This leak will pool like in the pics over a couple hours. I'll dry that up and try to rub some wax into the joint between barrel top and staves.

Interesting that it manifested after 5-6 weeks but maybe that's normal. It didn't leak for the first two red wines I had in it and then I rinsed it and put a chardonnay in and it started leaking...

Cheers!
-johann


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## Boatboy24

jburtner said:


> It didn't leak for the first two red wines I had in it and then I rinsed it and put a chardonnay in and it started leaking...
> 
> Cheers!
> -johann



You're going to have an oaky Rose when you take it out of the barrel.


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## ibglowin

Remember on a new barrel you break in with water which has a SG = 1.000. Then you pour wine in with an SG = ~ 0.994 so thinner and thinner means it can make its way through seals that were once thought tight. I have (4) 23L Vadai's and all but I think one of them have wax on them in various places. Smaller barrels have a higher propensity to leak than larger ones.


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## jburtner

Boatboy24 said:


> You're going to have an oaky Rose when you take it out of the barrel.



Really? I rinsed w/Hot water and let it sit for 1/2 day and the water was clear. I'm monitoring that and will take it out if needed.

Thanks!
-johann


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## Boatboy24

jburtner said:


> Really? I rinsed w/Hot water and let it sit for 1/2 day and the water was clear. I'm monitoring that and will take it out if needed.
> 
> Thanks!
> -johann



Keep an eye on it - from those pics, the stuff that's leaking out already looks pretty red.


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## ibglowin

If you call Vadai and let them know they will be more than happy to send out some barrel wax. That cost them less than sending a barrel back


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## jburtner

@ibglowin Thanks! they sent barrell-wax with the barrel so I'll use that and post some snaps and procedure for anyone else that might have very similar issue with leak in similar location. Good to know about canning wax too.

@Boatboy24 It is red leaking but all "chardonnay color" in the barrel. This must be some red wine that has soaked into that leakage path from the inside which is now being forced out...

Cheers!
-johann


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## AZMDTed

What worked best for me is to dry the outside of the barrel, then rub the barrel wax where the source of the leak is, then touch the wax with a hot iron. The wax instantly melts, spreads and soaks in quickly. The key is figuring out where the leak is, it's probably well away from the 'pool' of wine.


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## jburtner

Here's some pics. This beeswax is the consistency of silly putty type stuff...

I tried a couple application methods (less wax and more wax) along with heating and melting the wax.

You can see in the last photo the bead that still forms pretty quick after drying the leaked wine up...

I can see that the leak is coming from the area around that stave where it has a darkened strip next to the bead/droplet.

Not sure how to get the wax in there when the leak keeps pushing liquid out...

Thanks!
-johann


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## Boatboy24

Hate to say this, but you may need to empty the barrel.


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## ibglowin

I used canning wax with a full barrel. Nothing moves that stuff. Its possible you have a hard to get to leaking area. Barrel wax may require an empty barrel as Jim said.


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## jburtner

I tried to empty it last night but only got two glasses in before I fell asleep on the couch!

***
Was hoping not to have to empty it but maybe back into glass is the key. I do have a large sink that I can soak it in for a while (inside and out). I followed the Vadai instructions for new barrel prep initially.

Cheers,
johann


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## mainshipfred

Not that I know anything about barrels but what if you put a rachet strap around the bung and stand the barrel to apply the wax or another product.


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## Johny99

It looks to me you have an issue right where the head joins that stave. In my limited, but successful wax fixing experience, you want the oak hot and then apply the wax. I'd try taking a good bit of wine out, stand it on end, tight bung of course. Then clean off what you have, sand it a bit and see if you can see the defect. Next, heat the area real good to dry it out and get the oak hot, then apply a small bit of wax. For reasons I can't explain, melting solids flow from cool to hot, that is why to heat the oak up. If you put the wax on, then heat, it flows but not away from the heat.


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## jburtner

Just an update on this and I'm out of town now so will need to move wine back in for the "chardonnay test" later next week.

- Moved wine out of the barrel into a carboy to continue with work on the barrel.
- Filled Barrel with hot hot water. Bung'd tightly - stood up on-end and filled head with hot hot water.
- Sit for a day or so and top up with hot-hot several times.
- Empty and dryhead. Hit it with the heat gun for a while. Sand with 180 grit down into the joint.
- Rinse repeat a couple times...
- beeswax....
- Heat the area very well so that the heat goes deep into the wood. Rub beeswax into the joint and suspect area. Cool / Dry. Remove excess wax and polish/buff. Repeat also with some light sanding and rehydrating to build up the wax into the wood. The wax does flow into the heated wood similar to solder and wick.
- Repeated this whole thing a couple times with water sand/buff wax.

Filled 1/4 with hot water (and 2tsp kmeta) now I see no leaks. Will fill with the chardonnay and see how it goes.

Cheers and thanks to all!
-johann


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## jburtner

Wine has been in for 12h. No leaks 

Cheers!
-johann


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