# Clearing wine



## Robert301972 (Dec 18, 2020)

I have found a way to all most instantly clear home made wine.


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## Ajmassa (Dec 18, 2020)

k


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## dmw_chef (Dec 18, 2020)

Nice.


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## sour_grapes (Dec 18, 2020)

Welcome to WMT!

Could you share your method?


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## hounddawg (Dec 18, 2020)

?
welcome to WMT
Dawg


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## Ajmassa (Dec 19, 2020)

[redacted]


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## beano (Dec 19, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> I have found a way to all most instantly clear home made wine.




I can do that too. But I have to drink it first.
And welcome to the Forum.


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## Robert301972 (Dec 19, 2020)

well you start the wine like normal. When you rack it for the first time. Let it sit for about a week. then rack it again. This time and a pouch of Chitosan to the batch only(nothing else).let it sit for about a week. rack it this time add bentonite clay. And watch what happens. You can see the clay attach itself to the remaining particle's in the wine and fall to the bottom. All most instantly. But you have to do it in that order. If you do not it will not work. After that is done then you can add your stabilizer sorbate. So you can have clear wine in about 2 to 3 weeks. (Not months)


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## dmw_chef (Dec 19, 2020)

Ahh, hitting a wine with both positively charged and negatively charged fining agents. I'm sure nobody has ever thought of that before. 

(you don't need to rack so much)


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## Scooter68 (Dec 19, 2020)

I figured this was another "Miraculous" solution story. Sorry to sound so negative but really folks. First clue was that this person has zero previous posts, brand new to WMT and has no track record of wine making that is listed in their info - Again pardon the negativity but this sort of story is why we have the ignore button.


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## franc1969 (Dec 19, 2020)

There’s an ignore button? I missed this, and could use it.


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## hounddawg (Dec 19, 2020)

hum, but would it not still taste like a crappy young wine ? 
I'll stick to tried and true methods ,,,,
Dawg


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## sour_grapes (Dec 20, 2020)

Oh, c'mon guys. Show a little compassion. This is not bad advice. @Robert301972 didn't promote it as a miracle cure. He was sharing his experiences, and it came across wrong on his first post. Lighten up!


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## Robert301972 (Dec 20, 2020)

well guys I am sorry if I offended anybody. That was not my intention. The reason this is my first post. Is because of your reactions. This is a forum. Not a hate page. *sour_grapes *Is the only one that did not have a negative comment. And I am not new to wine making. I have been making wine for almost 6 years. I just thought I would share something that i discovered. And yes it is a young wine. But I didn't say go ahead and drink it afterwards. You still have to let it age. I have wine that has been sitting in my wine closet for all most 2 years. So I know all about young wine. And the reason why i rack so much. Did you know that if you let the lee sit in your wine for a long time it makes your wine bitter. (It is true look it up)


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## bobofthenorth (Dec 20, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> This is a forum. Not a hate page.



There's several members here that should read and re-read that advice. Members with less than multi-thousand post counts are not automatically morons.


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## 7munkee (Dec 20, 2020)

This instant method takes 3 weeks.


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## Robert301972 (Dec 20, 2020)

Well i said mostly instant. Sorry for misleading.


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## hounddawg (Dec 20, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> well guys I am sorry if I offended anybody. That was not my intention. The reason this is my first post. Is because of your reactions. This is a forum. Not a hate page. *sour_grapes *Is the only one that did not have a negative comment. And I am not new to wine making. I have been making wine for almost 6 years. I just thought I would share something that i discovered. And yes it is a young wine. But I didn't say go ahead and drink it afterwards. You still have to let it age. I have wine that has been sitting in my wine closet for all most 2 years. So I know all about young wine. And the reason why i rack so much. Did you know that if you let the lee sit in your wine for a long time it makes your wine bitter. (It is true look it up)


aww , no offence, you'd not believe the times i was the one getting chewed on, as a matter of fact, I still get under most peoples skin, i only do sweet country wines, lol, ,, and proud of them, and nine times out of ten i do it on purpose, being disabled i get bored , not to mention i bulk every thing, even my skeeter pee port, all the way up to 6 to 10 years on elderberry, but i grew u around the then old timers,, they sold 6 year old elderberry, but drank 10 year old elderberry, ii reread my post about young wines, i stand by it, but should of worded it better, hell the only reason we keep 
spoiled_grapes around is to keep us on the right track,
Dawg


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## hounddawg (Dec 20, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> Well i said mostly instant. Sorry for misleading.


aw, I'm a knuckle dragger,, no worries
Dawg


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## sour_grapes (Dec 20, 2020)

hounddawg said:


> hell the only reason we keep
> spoiled_grapes around is to keep us on the right track,



I will admit that (at least) one time, I was extremely rude to a new member who posted something that I, in my stupidity, deemed to be dumb. The truth is that I was way drunk when I did it. I used private messaging as well as public posts, to apologize, and we got past it. I still regret that.


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## beano (Dec 20, 2020)

It is truly not my intent to offend or discourage. @Robert301972. It was meant as good natured ribbing, and I thank you for posting you results and experiences. Making wine has been an on going learning process for me. So many different wine's you can make. And each one with it's particular nuionce
Hope to see future posts from you.
My way is still the quickest way to clear the wine.


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## my wine (Dec 20, 2020)

Welcome to the forum!


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## winemanden (Dec 20, 2020)

Beano, you're not alone. I filter my wine regularly that way. The water company doesn't complain about its quality.


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## Ajmassa (Dec 20, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> well guys I am sorry if I offended anybody. That was not my intention. The reason this is my first post. Is because of your reactions. This is a forum. Not a hate page. *sour_grapes *Is the only one that did not have a negative comment. And I am not new to wine making. I have been making wine for almost 6 years. I just thought I would share something that i discovered. And yes it is a young wine. But I didn't say go ahead and drink it afterwards. You still have to let it age. I have wine that has been sitting in my wine closet for all most 2 years. So I know all about young wine. And the reason why i rack so much. Did you know that if you let the lee sit in your wine for a long time it makes your wine bitter. (It is true look it up)


I thought it was a human bot after the initial post lol. Where a kid in Asia gets paid to generate engagement to whatever platform is paying them.
Typically you don’t see a teaser post as a thread starter which u gotta admit sounded very ‘infomercial-ish’-—> “I discovered the secret to instantly clear any wine!”. I was fully expecting some website shill eventually! Lol

Glad to see you are not a bot! And most here would agree with you regarding heavy lees. Dustings of fine lees are harmless. But actually I just read a post recently that even though we default to removing heavy lees there are situations where it can be beneficial to keep it. Was a super informative post. Will try to find and link it up. 
There’s endless valuable info shared in here. I made wine as a helper as i grew up, then as a little hobby as an adult. But It wasn’t until I started utilizing this forum when actually learned and understood things to improve my process and wines.

so welcome to WMT. You certainly came in like a bat out of hell! Hope to see you stick around.


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## beano (Dec 20, 2020)

Really.... All of you guys and gals are great people. It brings home the fact that you/we, as a group are upstanding people. Trying to share. Passing on our information, experiences and methods as we see them. Hopefully helping a individual new and struggling to learn.
Happy holidays to all of you.

Beano


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## hounddawg (Dec 20, 2020)

sour_grapes said:


> I will admit that (at least) one time, I was extremely rude to a new member who posted something that I, in my stupidity, deemed to be dumb. The truth is that I was way drunk when I did it. I used private messaging as well as public posts, to apologize, and we got past it. I still regret that.


replied drunk. why didn't i think of that,,, lol  
Dawg


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## Robert301972 (Dec 20, 2020)

Well if anyone of you have any technique's let me know.


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## Booty Juice (Dec 20, 2020)

Ajmassa said:


> Glad to see you are not a bot! And most here would agree with you regarding heavy lees. Dustings of fine lees are harmless. But actually I just read a post recently that even though we default to removing heavy lees there are situations where it can be beneficial to keep it. Was a super informative post. Will try to find and link it up.



Ok I'll go ahead and stick my head above the parapet.....again.

Not sure what post you're referring to WRT heavy or gross lees, but I'd love to read it.

One of my cousins makes reds that sit on the gross lees from beginning 'till bottling. They also never get SO2 or any other additive (that's gonna stop most people from reading any further) or intervention.

The key is: the fruit is meticulously sorted, the ferment must be problem-free and the juice clean and healthy. Theses are always small batches (250 lbs. or less, usually half that). Bulk age for 12 to 18 months, bottle, and drink at 3 years. It's wonderful wine.

Oh and Robert301972 - Welcome! I'm new too!


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## Ajmassa (Dec 20, 2020)

Booty Juice said:


> Ok I'll go ahead and stick my head above the parapet.....again.
> 
> Not sure what post you're referring to WRT heavy or gross lees, but I'd love to read it.
> 
> ...


This post. 





__





Experience with the Sur-Lie additive


Hi folks - Does anyone have experience with the Sur-Lie additive available from morewine? I'd be most interested in finding out who actually makes it so I can get the TDS, but my research has thus far not been fruitful. If anyone has experience with this magic powder, I'd be interested in...




www.winemakingtalk.com


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## Booty Juice (Dec 20, 2020)

Thank you! Yes I had read that.

I like this part from jetcontrails:

"My protocol does not mandate anything, so in the case of my ‘19 Cab, I have it still resting on the original lees and it has never been racked. *Tastes, great, excellent mid-palate volume, low VA, and only barrel ox. The point being, when it comes to these lees products, many are designed to mimic or replace what you may already have access to."*


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## hounddawg (Dec 21, 2020)

Booty Juice said:


> Ok I'll go ahead and stick my head above the parapet.....again.
> 
> Not sure what post you're referring to WRT heavy or gross lees, but I'd love to read it.
> 
> ...


i have bulk aged blackberry, strawberry, apple/pear/crabapple for 2 years on gross lees, and had zero problems and ended up with very nice country wines. just got outta the grove after going to vacuum pumping and filtering my wines. don't know why i changed, for every wine there are many, many ways to go about things,,,
Dawg


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## winemaker81 (Dec 21, 2020)

@Robert301972, welcome to the forum!

Instead of chitosan and bentonite, try kieselsol and chitosan. The wine clears in days.

This combination is used by the kit manufacturers I'm familiar with. Start with a degassed wine, add the kieselsol and wait a period, instructions have said anything from 5 minutes to 24 hours. I usually wait an hour, then add the chitosan.

I've had sediment dropping within 10 minutes, and a thick layer in a day. I typically wait a week before racking to let the agents do their thing and for the sediment to compact.

Bentonite has drawbacks when used with red wine, so a lot of folks use it only for whites and fruit wines.


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 21, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> well you start the wine like normal. When you rack it for the first time. Let it sit for about a week. then rack it again. This time and a pouch of Chitosan to the batch only(nothing else).let it sit for about a week. rack it this time add bentonite clay. And watch what happens. You can see the clay attach itself to the remaining particle's in the wine and fall to the bottom. All most instantly. But you have to do it in that order. If you do not it will not work. After that is done then you can add your stabilizer sorbate. So you can have clear wine in about 2 to 3 weeks. (Not months)


I think I will try your method with my next rhubarb which was very difficult to clear. Question: How much Chitosan is in a "pouch"? Also, how much bentonite? Thanks.........................DizzyIzzy


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 21, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> @Robert301972, welcome to the forum!
> 
> Instead of chitosan and bentonite, try kieselsol and chitosan. The wine clears in days.
> 
> ...


How much of each?..................................................Thanks........................................DizzyIzzy


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 21, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> well guys I am sorry if I offended anybody. That was not my intention. The reason this is my first post. Is because of your reactions. This is a forum. Not a hate page. *sour_grapes *Is the only one that did not have a negative comment. And I am not new to wine making. I have been making wine for almost 6 years. I just thought I would share something that i discovered. And yes it is a young wine. But I didn't say go ahead and drink it afterwards. You still have to let it age. I have wine that has been sitting in my wine closet for all most 2 years. So I know all about young wine. And the reason why i rack so much. Did you know that if you let the lee sit in your wine for a long time it makes your wine bitter. (It is true look it up)


I, for one, am not offended, I am intrigued. Thanks for contributing......................................................DizzyIzzy


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## winemaker81 (Dec 21, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> How much of each?


A kit I made a year ago had 12.5 ml kieselsol and 25 ml chitosan. IIRC, other kits were 1:2 or 1:3 ratios.

For my recent encounter with H2S, my local shop was out of SuperKleer (brand name kieselsol/chitosan) so the owner looked it up when I asked for enough for 10 gallons. He had bulk containers of both and measured out doses. His mixture was 35 ml kieselsol and 30 ml chitosan. He got this from the site of his supplier, although I don't know which one.

My batch is 54 liters / 14.25 gallons and I intentionally went light on the fining agent, e.g., bought for 10 gallons.

If you buy a commercial kieselsol/chitosan product, you get what you get. My local shop did a different ratio than the kits. I searched and the recommended ratio on one site was 1 part kieselsol to 3 parts chitosan. I don't know which is correct, or if there are simply various opinions.


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## Robert301972 (Dec 21, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> @Robert301972, welcome to the forum!
> 
> Instead of chitosan and bentonite, try kieselsol and chitosan. The wine clears in days.
> 
> ...


I have never had a problem when i use it in red wines.


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## Robert301972 (Dec 21, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> I think I will try your method with my next rhubarb which was very difficult to clear. Question: How much Chitosan is in a "pouch"? Also, how much bentonite? Thanks.........................DizzyIzzy


I usealy use one pouch for 6 gallons. And the bentonite clay go by the directions on the package. 4 tsp mixed with 1 1/3 cup of warm water. For every 5 gallons.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 22, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> I have never had a problem when i use it in red wines.


Bentonite can strip color in reds, not hugely (15% IIRC) but a lot of folks won't use it in red for this reason. OTOH, it's a great clearing agent.


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 22, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> A kit I made a year ago had 12.5 ml kieselsol and 25 ml chitosan. IIRC, other kits were 1:2 or 1:3 ratios.
> 
> For my recent encounter with H2S, my local shop was out of SuperKleer (brand name kieselsol/chitosan) so the owner looked it up when I asked for enough for 10 gallons. He had bulk containers of both and measured out doses. His mixture was 35 ml kieselsol and 30 ml chitosan. He got this from the site of his supplier, although I don't know which one.
> 
> ...


Thankyou very much for a speedy response (particularly this time of year). Definitely "fuzzy math" from the various sources.........so'o' confusing. Merry Christmas, and stay safe. Thankyou again........................................DizzyIzzy


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 22, 2020)

beano said:


> Really.... All of you guys and gals are great people. It brings home the fact that you/we, as a group are upstanding people. Trying to share. Passing on our information, experiences and methods as we see them. Hopefully helping a individual new and struggling to learn.
> Happy holidays to all of you.
> 
> Beano


The very same to you Beano..........................................DizzyIzzy


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 22, 2020)

Robert301972 said:


> I usealy use one pouch for 6 gallons. And the bentonite clay go by the directions on the package. 4 tsp mixed with 1 1/3 cup of warm water. For every 5 gallons.


Again, how much is in one pouch? Thankyou for such a speedy response. Merry Christmas to you and yours, and welcome to the forum.....................DizzyIzzy


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## winemaker81 (Dec 22, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Again, how much is in one pouch?


I purchase bentonite in bulk, typically 8 oz. The recommended dose on the package is 1 to 2 _tablespoons_ per gallon of wine.

Years ago I was told 1 to 2 _teaspoons_ per gallon, and that's what I have used with good success. Literature says that bentonite strips color, which I've not experienced -- but I'm also using 1/3 the "recommended" amount, which probably explains my results.

Next time I buy a kit, I'm going to measure the bentonite packet, as I don't believe there is 6 Tbsp in there.


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## Bhushan Thatte (Dec 23, 2020)

Hello friends,
I am an amateur homemade wine maker from India. I am making only fruit wines particularly litchi, Blueberry, Raspberry & Blackberry wines. I am always finding it difficult in clearing the wine. can anybody suggest best method?


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## winemaker81 (Dec 23, 2020)

Bhushan Thatte said:


> I am an amateur homemade wine maker from India. I am making only fruit wines particularly litchi, Blueberry, Raspberry & Blackberry wines. I am always finding it difficult in clearing the wine. can anybody suggest best method?


Welcome to WMT!

A common problem with fruit (non-grape) wines is pectin. Pectin is great when you're making jams & jellies, but not when making wine.

The solution is pectic enzyme, which breaks down the pectins. The wine _should _clear on it's own after that, but if it's stubborn you can use a fining agent.


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## Robert301972 (Dec 23, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> Bentonite can strip color in reds, not hugely (15% IIRC) but a lot of folks won't use it in red for this reason. OTOH, it's a great clearing agent.


Thanks for the tip


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## Robert301972 (Dec 23, 2020)

DizzyIzzy said:


> Again, how much is in one pouch? Thankyou for such a speedy response. Merry Christmas to you and yours, and welcome to the forum.....................DizzyIzzy


I belive it is (75 ML)


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## Booty Juice (Dec 23, 2020)

Bhushan Thatte said:


> Hello friends,
> I am an amateur homemade wine maker from India. I am making only fruit wines particularly litchi, Blueberry, Raspberry & Blackberry wines. I am always finding it difficult in clearing the wine. can anybody suggest best method?



If you don't have access to or don't want to use commercial fining products, egg whites work great.


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## winemaker81 (Dec 23, 2020)

The Australian Wine Research Institute has a *detailed article on fining agents*. I have found others, but this one is my current go-to.

Every fining agent has pros and cons, so it helps to understand what each does so we can make informed decisions.


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## my wine (Dec 23, 2020)

Winemaker81, that was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing. I noticed they didn't mention kieselsol and chitosan. Do you have a notion as to why?


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## winemaker81 (Dec 24, 2020)

my wine said:


> Winemaker81, that was an interesting read. Thanks for sharing. I noticed they didn't mention kieselsol and chitosan. Do you have a notion as to why?


Nope, no idea. I haven't found much detailed information on kieselsol/chitosan.

If anyone spots anything of substance, please post the URL.


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## montanarick (Dec 25, 2020)

kielselsol/chitosan has been my go to fining agent for several years - I use it on all my wines


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## DizzyIzzy (Dec 26, 2020)

winemaker81 said:


> I purchase bentonite in bulk, typically 8 oz. The recommended dose on the package is 1 to 2 _tablespoons_ per gallon of wine.
> 
> Years ago I was told 1 to 2 _teaspoons_ per gallon, and that's what I have used with good success. Literature says that bentonite strips color, which I've not experienced -- but I'm also using 1/3 the "recommended" amount, which probably explains my results.
> 
> Next time I buy a kit, I'm going to measure the bentonite packet, as I don't believe there is 6 Tbsp in there.


Thankyou for the response....................................DizzyIzzy


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