# Bulk Age in Better Bottles or Glass?



## smcalli1 (Dec 1, 2012)

I've seen a lot of people in various threads say that they only bulk age in glass. Why? Is there something that happens when aging in plastic?


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## Putterrr (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm guessing that their is concern about what chemicals plastic contains


On March 30, 2012, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced its decision to reject a petition from the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) that proposed to ban bisphenol A (BPA) in food-contact materials. FDA denied the petition in its entirety, also stating on its website, "The Food and Drug Administration's assessment is that the scientific evidence at this time does not suggest that the very low levels of human exposure to BPA through the diet are unsafe."

FDA's decision once again confirms the safety of BPA in food-contact materials based on the best available science and clearly explains that there is no need for any change in the food-contact applications of BPA given the current scientific evidence. Visit the FDA website for more information on this decision.
I'm guessing that this was from a BPA supporting site


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## Rocky (Dec 1, 2012)

My questions would be, If we have a choice between plastic and glass and there is _some_ question over the safety of plastic and _no_ question over the safety of glass, why take the risk?


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## smcalli1 (Dec 1, 2012)

Rocky, I hear you, but I figure I've lived for 58 years with plastics. I think I'll survive the remaining few I have. And in those remaining few I'll be better able to lift the plastic than the glass. .


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## ibglowin (Dec 1, 2012)

You can't vacuum rack or degas a plastic carboy. That makes plastic useless to me.


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## smcalli1 (Dec 2, 2012)

I don't have a vacuum pump and even though it sounds cool, I'm not sure I'd want to spend the money to upgrade for a luxury. And I'm able to de-gas in a plastic carboy so long as I'm careful not to beat the sides.


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## ibglowin (Dec 2, 2012)

Sounds to me like you opened up a thread asking people why they use one over the other and now your intent is to knock those responses just to make you feel better about your decision to use plastic.......

Nicely done.


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## ibglowin (Dec 2, 2012)

Here is a boatload of more reasons glass carboys are better than plastic

Have fun with it.


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## smcalli1 (Dec 2, 2012)

If that's how it sounded, I apologize. It wasn't my intent. I was just trying to discover if there was something about bulk aging in plastic that would change the character of the wine being aged. I'm not so well off to be spending money on things I don't have to.


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## smcalli1 (Dec 2, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> Here is a boatload of more reasons glass carboys are better than plastic
> 
> Have fun with it.



That's a great article and brings up some things I hadn't heard of before. Thanks.


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## Rocky (Dec 2, 2012)

smcalli1 said:


> If that's how it sounded, I apologize. It wasn't my intent. I was just trying to discover if there was something about bulk aging in plastic that would change the character of the wine being aged. I'm not so well off to be spending money on things I don't have to.


 
Smcalli, I have about 28 carboys (two of which are Better Bottles that I use for quick interim moves and blending). Of the remaining 26, I don't think I paid retail price for more than 10 of them. I search garage sales, CraigsList, antique shiop, flea markets, etc. and have found most of them in these venues. Some people gave me when they heard I make wine and the carboy was just in their way at home. I have paid as little as $5 for a 5 gallon carboy so the deals are out there.


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## smcalli1 (Dec 2, 2012)

Rocky said:


> Smcalli, I have about 28 carboys (two of which are Better Bottles that I use for quick interim moves and blending). Of the remaining 26, I don't think I paid retail price for more than 10 of them. I search garage sales, CraigsList, antique shiop, flea markets, etc. and have found most of them in these venues. Some people gave me when they heard I make wine and the carboy was just in their way at home. I have paid as little as $5 for a 5 gallon carboy so the deals are out there.



Thanks Rocky. I've been watching on Craigslist without much luck so far. I just picked on up yesterday because my local supplier had a sale. But even with the sale it was $40+. Full price is $50+tax.


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## BobF (Dec 2, 2012)

Keep watching this

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002VFXW5W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Every few months Amazon gets a bunch in. In the past they've been as low as $28.xx and ship free with super saver shipping.

These are VERY good deals on 6g carboys when they happen. So far I have 13 6g, 8 3g, countless 1g/4L plus smaller in various sizes. I'll snag some 5s and more 6s when the deals pop up 

Collect them when you can get them for good prices.

Eventually you'll have too many for the space you have , but you'll never have enough!!


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## smcalli1 (Dec 2, 2012)

BobF said:


> Keep watching this
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Paklab-Glass-Carboy-Liter-1-9-Pound/dp/B002VFXW5W/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1276187811&sr=8-19
> 
> ...



Thanks! I've bookmarked it.


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## BernardSmith (Dec 2, 2012)

I have neither the experience or the knowledge to weigh in on whether glass or plastic is better (or the same) but it strikes me that any discussion on whether to bulk age (not store but age) is better in glass or plastic needs to take account of two very different factors - among a number of others - 
A) Whether plastic leaches any chemicals (and in what quantities) into the wine in say one or two years of aging of different wines at different temperatures, different pHs and different ABVs and 
B) whether aging wine should be done in non O2 permeable vessels or containers that are negligibly permeable. Better Bottle does not claim that their plastic is non permeable and glass is certainly non permeable (although the bung is probably not) but folk who age in oak casks and barrels presumably do so because they consider that some O2 is better in aging than no O2. So I guess my questions to this forum are whether Better Bottle is in fact as stable as glass when it comes to leaching and is some permeability better than none when aging.


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## winemaker_3352 (Dec 2, 2012)

I would use glass as the plastic will move as the pressure rises and lowers. Sucking in oxygen


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## robie (Dec 2, 2012)

winemaker_3352 said:


> I would use glass as the plastic will move as the pressure rises and lowers. Sucking in oxygen



Hey Jon,

I think you got that just backwards. I think the walls of the Better Bottle will contract and expand as the pressure changes, thereby preventing that sucking/expelling action. Then again, I am no physicist, so I could be wrong.
............

My vote is to use both glass and Better Bottles. Each as some advantages and disadvantages, but both work great, if you use them were their advantages lie. Example - don't try to rack into a Better Bottle using a vacuum pump. Conversely, don't ever drop a glass carboy.

In the end, I do prefer a glass carboy, though.


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## BernardSmith (Dec 4, 2012)

If Better Bottle plastic (PET) is in fact "permeable", does that suggest that wines in BB carboys are more likely to degas than wines in glass? Does anyone know whether CO2 molecules are larger than air molecules (I imagine that CO2 is probably larger than O2 but air is made up of many other elements and compounds) and whether the permeability of PET will allow CO2 to escape over months?


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## cimbaliw (Dec 15, 2012)

This thread gets my vote for a sticky. 

I came into a stash of 5 glass carboys this weekend and am interested in bulk aging, is there an ideal temp for bulk aging? The area I have set aside for this constantly measures 60f.


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## Rocky (Dec 15, 2012)

cimbaliw said:


> This thread gets my vote for a sticky.
> 
> I came into a stash of 5 glass carboys this weekend and am interested in bulk aging, is there an ideal temp for bulk aging? The area I have set aside for this constantly measures 60f.


 
I am sure that a constant 60 degrees F will be great. I have seen "ideal" conditions published as 55 degrees F and 75% RH.


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## NoSnob (Dec 23, 2012)

smcalli1 said:


> Rocky, I hear you, but I figure I've lived for 58 years with plastics. I think I'll survive the remaining few I have. And in those remaining few I'll be better able to lift the plastic than the glass. .


 
Out of curiosity, how much less do the 6 gal BB weigh? I am interested because I plan to teach a very basic course on beginning winemaking to elders and this could make a real difference.
NS


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## vacuumpumpman (Dec 23, 2012)

I only use glass carboys - as that is how I was taught how to make wine.

I just weighed my 6 gallon carboy and it came in about 12 pounds (using a bathroom scale )


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## rezod11 (Dec 23, 2012)

vacuumpumpman said:


> I only use glass carboys - as that is how I was taught how to make wine.
> 
> I just weighed my 6 gallon carboy and it came in about 12 pounds (using a bathroom scale )



For the 12 lbs, I'll take the weight over the possibility of androgen's leached into my wine, possibly already acting as an estrogen. For me, this is a concern as cancer does run widely on my mother's side. As she once stated, it's not if you will get cancer in her family, it's when and what kind.

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/02/134196209/study-most-plastics-leach-hormone-like-chemicals


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