# Adding Nutrients if the Yeast Doesn't Need Them?



## Boatboy24 (Mar 21, 2012)

A total beginner here, but I'm wondering what the impact on a wine would be if you were to add nutrients during Primary if the yeast didn't actually need them. Any impact on the wine at all, or would they just settle out? Thanks!

Love this place - so much learning to do here.


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## Turock (Mar 21, 2012)

But the yeast DOES need nutrient. Nutrient allows the yeast to reproduce more easily, allowing a rapid ferment. Rapid ferments are better because your wine is protected under the cover of CO2. Slow ferments are difficult to control and not recommended for beginning winemakers. But many experienced home winemakers don't try them either because they don't have the equipment to do it, like a commercial operation has.

It also improves clearing and the yeast's tolerance to alcohol. So always use nutrient in all your primary fermentations.


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## ibglowin (Mar 21, 2012)

I see you have made a few post about wine kits. Just remember that a wine kit will have the yeast nutrient already added in so you should not need to add more. Mosti Mondial is the only Kit I know that actually has you add the (supplied) nutrient into the must close to the end of primary fermentation. If you are making country wines etc. from a recipe then you will obviously need to keep some on hand.


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## JohnT (Mar 21, 2012)

All yeasts need neutrients!


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## DoctorCAD (Mar 21, 2012)

Its just like fertilizer for your lawn. The yeast will grow without them, but grow faster with them.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 21, 2012)

Thanks so much for your input. Based on the replies, it sounds as if no harm would be done in adding nutrients.


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## jswordy (Mar 21, 2012)

Going back to the OP, any nutrients not used by the yeast will settle out in the lees. Most nutrients have some contents that must settle out anyway, like yeast hulls, etc.

It is hard to get any modern winemaker to say that yeast can ferment a mighty good wine without added nutrients, but if you are using fresh grapes it is very possible to accomplish the task. Wines from juice and fruit wines tend to be most lacking in nutrients.

Fermentation without added nutrients is a different experience. It is not as vigorous and it can take longer to complete. Sanitation requirements go up a notch at the start, because both of those conditions can invite spoilage organisms to the party. But it can be done

The reason everyone uses nutrients just on general principle no matter the must is that they are cheap insurance. If you want to, try an experiment sometime and start a small amount of must with just sugar and the fruit. Then after 3 days, add nutrients. You will see the difference in a very short time. It is quite marked.


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## robie (Mar 21, 2012)

ibglowin said:


> I see you have made a few post about wine kits. Just remember that a wine kit will have the yeast nutrient already added in so you should not need to add more. Mosti Mondial is the only Kit I know that actually has you add the (supplied) nutrient into the must close to the end of primary fermentation. If you are making country wines etc. from a recipe then you will obviously need to keep some on hand.



I agree with Mike on this, especially if you are using the yeast, which came with the kit. Everything is pre-adjusted, except for the Mosti kits, which have taken this into account and have supplied additional nutrients.

The possible exception might be if you use a yeast, which did not come with the kit. If the kit supplied yeast happens to have a low need for nutrients, while the yeast you have decided to use has a much higher need for nutrients, like BM45, you might consider using some additional nutrient. In such a case use only about half of what the nutrient instructions say to use. Half, because the kit will always already have some nutrient included.

Until one gets some experience, one really does need to be careful about this sort of situation. Stick with the kit supplied yeast for several kits, then maybe start carefully experimenting. 

A case in point - After making wine for about 2 years, I decided to use a different yeast. That yeast had a very high nutrient requirement, but I didn't add any extra nutrient to the kit. I hadn't bothered to research the yeast strain. That yeast also had a tendency of producing loads of H2S (rotten egg smell) when stressed. I ended up with a huge H2S issue on my hands. I finally got rid of the H2S, but the wine was never what it otherwise would have been.


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## Turock (Mar 21, 2012)

I agree with Robie---lack of nutrient can give a boatload of H2S. As he said, you need to research the culture you're using. And what most of us do is add the nutrient in 2 different batches while ferment is going on so the yeast stays fed. 

But don't think more is better! Too much nutrient can give a horrible taste to wine.


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## Sammyk (Mar 21, 2012)

I am confused. We make only non-grape fruit wines. Are you saying to add more yeast nutrient during fermentation even if it is added at the beginning before the regular yeast is added?


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## Deezil (Mar 22, 2012)

Turock was saying he splits up the amount of nutrient into "doses"... Step feeds it.

Same amount of nutrient, total. Just put half in at the beginning, and half in, about 1.040 or halfway


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 22, 2012)

Great info, thanks everyone! My ferm was going, but was a little slow. Added roughly a half dose of Fermaid last night (day 3) and boy oh boy did things pick up overnight! I'm using BM45 and hydrated with GoFerm at the start (it's a slow starter as I understand). I'll keep an eye on things and will add the rest if needed.


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## robie (Mar 22, 2012)

Boatboy24 said:


> Great info, thanks everyone! My ferm was going, but was a little slow. Added roughly a half dose of Fermaid last night (day 3) and boy oh boy did things pick up overnight! I'm using BM45 and hydrated with GoFerm at the start (it's a slow starter as I understand). I'll keep an eye on things and will add the rest if needed.



I great fermenter, but BM45 is a real hog, when it comes to nutrient needs. I have used it several times. You did the right thing by adding some nutrient. I think there is now a newer, better version of BM45, with another name - BM4X4. It is supposed to be a little less prone to H2S and heavy nutrient requirements. I would consider switching to BM4X4 in the future.


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## robie (Mar 22, 2012)

Sammyk said:


> I am confused. We make only non-grape fruit wines. Are you saying to add more yeast nutrient during fermentation even if it is added at the beginning before the regular yeast is added?



Not saying that. Some recipes call for adding some up front and some during fermentation. Just follow the recipe and the instructions for the nutrient.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 22, 2012)

Thanks robie. I was looking for BM4X4, but couldn't find it in anything less than 500g. Since I'm new to the hobby, I wasn't quite ready to buy that much. Morewine had the BM45 in smaller packs. Any ideas on where BM4X4 is available in smaller size packs?


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## robie (Mar 22, 2012)

Boatboy24 said:


> Thanks robie. I was looking for BM4X4, but couldn't find it in anything less than 500g. Since I'm new to the hobby, I wasn't quite ready to buy that much. Morewine had the BM45 in smaller packs. Any ideas on where BM4X4 is available in smaller size packs?



I am surprised morewine doesn't carry the BM4X4. No, I don't have another source. Now that you have used the BM45 successfully, just stay with it. If you keep the primary stirred and add the nutrients when they are called for, BM45 is still an excellent choice. I myself would use it in a heart beat.


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## Roberta Eagan (Dec 26, 2017)

Haven't figured out how to ask questions without making it a reply


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## Arne (Dec 27, 2017)

Roberta Eagan said:


> Haven't figured out how to ask questions without making it a reply


Go to the top of whatever forum you wish to post in. Should be a banner there that says Start new thread. Click on that and away you go. Arne.


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## NorCal (Dec 27, 2017)

Commercial winemakers can opt to determine their YAN, and fine tune the amount of nutrient needed for their grapes and chosen yeast. The yeast will adapt to their environment, but in the end it could result in off flavors and smells. The risk of too much nutrient is feeding other bacteria that would otherwise be crowded out by your chosen yeast. I’d be sure to rack as soon as fermentation is complete or a 1/2 brix before.


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