# Looking for fruit juice concentrate



## Dan Nauman (Oct 16, 2018)

Anyone know where to get 100% fruit juice concentrate for making fruit wines? I've looked into fruit wine bases, like Vintner's Best and the like, but I'm not crazy about the other additives they put in. Just want the juice, in gallons preferably. Kinda like what homewinery.com sells. Seeing if there are other options that people use.

Thanks a lot!


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## cmason1957 (Oct 16, 2018)

I haven't ever purchased form them, but some fellow winemakers I know have and seemed favorably impressed with the juice they got. Walkers Wine Juice. https://walkerswinejuice.com/


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 16, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> I haven't ever purchased form them, but some fellow winemakers I know have and seemed favorably impressed with the juice they got. Walkers Wine Juice. https://walkerswinejuice.com/



Thanks, that seems to be what I'm looking for. But I can't quite figure it out: the "hot packs" are five gallon buckets of concentrate? Presumably each gallon making five gallons of wine? They're not very clear.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 16, 2018)

Vintner's HARVEST(VH) - Different from Vintner's Best (VB) - VH is 100 percent the juice type on the label vs a mix of other juices in VB. Costs More per gallon but then it is what it says it is and nothing added. Some of then VH have some fruit pulp along with the juice, where others are only juice. I've used Plum (Has some pulp) and Black Currant (No pulp) Very happy with the results. A 96 oz can will produce a solid full body wine of 3 gallons. I am waiting for a can of Elderberry wine base to arrive this week.

If you look at the thread on this part of the forum: https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/vintners-best-elderberry-fruit-wine-base.66122/

You can see there the results with VB.
Sorry if this sounds prejudiced but I wanted 100% of the labeled juice variety not a mix.
I have also used the VH smaller cans but was not impressed - but then those are really designed as additives to meads, other wines and not really as a stand alone wine.
Also I have purchased some Tart and Sweet Cherry concentrates from other sources - Just be aware of the different concentrations in 'concentrates' typically if a bottle of the juice concentrate is supposed to make say 1 gallon of juice, I use 4 bottles for 3 gallons to be sure and have a full body wine.

Pardon the info overload.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 16, 2018)

Dan Nauman said:


> Thanks, that seems to be what I'm looking for. But I can't quite figure it out: the "hot packs" are five gallon buckets of concentrate? Presumably each gallon making five gallons of wine? They're not very clear.



No, I believe they are 5 gallons of Juice, no concentrate. They make 5 gallons of wine, unless you water them back some. Which I don't believe is generally recommended. Well, maybe the blackberry and Elderberry. And don't forget, you will be paying shipping to your location.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 16, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> No, I believe they are 5 gallons of Juice, no concentrate. They make 5 gallons of wine, unless you water them back some. Which I don't believe is generally recommended. Well, maybe the blackberry and Elderberry. And don't forget, you will be paying shipping to your location.



Wow, $60-$90 for enough juice for five gallons of finished wine? Unless I'm missing something, doesn't quite seem worth it.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 16, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> Vintner's HARVEST(VH) - Different from Vintner's Best (VB) - VH is 100 percent the juice type on the label vs a mix of other juices in VB. Costs More per gallon but then it is what it says it is and nothing added. Some of then VH have some fruit pulp along with the juice, where others are only juice. I've used Plum (Has some pulp) and Black Currant (No pulp) Very happy with the results. A 96 oz can will produce a solid full body wine of 3 gallons. I am waiting for a can of Elderberry wine base to arrive this week.
> 
> If you look at the thread on this part of the forum: https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/vintners-best-elderberry-fruit-wine-base.66122/
> 
> ...



Thanks Scooter,

I looked at VB before. Good to know the results are nice. 

And there's no such thing as info overload. All available info is good.


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## sour_grapes (Oct 16, 2018)

Dan Nauman said:


> Wow, $60-$90 for enough juice for five gallons of finished wine? Unless I'm missing something, doesn't quite seem worth it.



Ummm, that is $2.5 to $3.5 dollars per bottle. If that is not appealing to you, well, I agree that you should just look elsewhere.


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## CK55 (Oct 17, 2018)

Dan Nauman said:


> Wow, $60-$90 for enough juice for five gallons of finished wine? Unless I'm missing something, doesn't quite seem worth it.


You realize that kits are literally like 40-60$$ more than that and they include nothing more than some added yeast and stuff. So it is very worth it.

I paid $30 for enough sangiovese for a batch that ended up failing. that was $10 per gallon but still.


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## FTC Wines (Oct 17, 2018)

Dan, it’s hard to beat Home Winery’s concentrates. I make a lot of their wine for our “house wines” . But I use 5 pints per 5 gal batch, not the 4 they recommend. Feel it gives you a little more flavor & body. Blueberry, Blackberry & Elderberry are our favorites. I also add Those 3 in different proportions to their Cab Sav concentrate. Right now I have 10 gallons of B B Cab aging, it’s 50% Cab, 25% Blueberry and 25% Blackberry. It’s a very fruity Cab! Roy


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 17, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> Ummm, that is $2.5 to $3.5 dollars per bottle. If that is not appealing to you, well, I agree that you should just look elsewhere.



Eh, perhaps my math was off. Didn't mean to offend.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 17, 2018)

CK55 said:


> You realize that kits are literally like 40-60$$ more than that and they include nothing more than some added yeast and stuff. So it is very worth it.
> 
> I paid $30 for enough sangiovese for a batch that ended up failing. that was $10 per gallon but still.



Yeah, I've seen the kits, and I know they're more expensive than that. But those are grape varieties, if I'm not mistaken. I'm looking for other fruit juices. 

I'm still very new to all this, still feeling my way around the prices of things. Perhaps I'm simply not familiar enough with the costs of ingredients.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 17, 2018)

FTC Wines said:


> Dan, it’s hard to beat Home Winery’s concentrates. I make a lot of their wine for our “house wines” . But I use 5 pints per 5 gal batch, not the 4 they recommend. Feel it gives you a little more flavor & body. Blueberry, Blackberry & Elderberry are our favorites. I also add Those 3 in different proportions to their Cab Sav concentrate. Right now I have 10 gallons of B B Cab aging, it’s 50% Cab, 25% Blueberry and 25% Blackberry. It’s a very fruity Cab! Roy



Thanks Roy,

I'm leaning towards them. Seems like a pretty good deal. And if you say the quality is good, then I'll probably give them a shot.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 17, 2018)

Until I see a contents listing for a concentrate of any kind (Exactly What type of juice) I don't purchase. Too many places will call it a "Blueberry Wine Base concentrate" when in reality it's a mix of Apple, White Grape and Blueberry juices in that order of concentration. You pay more for the real thing but you get what you pay for and YOU get to decide if you want to dilute a Blueberry, Elderberry, Cherry, etc juice with Apple Juice and or White Grape juice.
Not saying that these don't produce a good wine but they don't produce a true pure wine matching the label on the bottle.

The Elderberry wine concentrate I ordered will run me about $2.0 (Correction $2.20) per bottle of finished wine. Compare that to what you would pay for a bottle of Real Elderberry wine and by the way good luck finding out what is *really* in that bottle of wine. It may be 100% Elderberry or it may be a mix. Most web sites don't tell you or show you a list of contents.

For many of us who make our own wine we know that mass produced wines can challenge the cost for us to produce our wine BUT, we KNOW what's in our wine and WE control the aging, the sweetness or dryness etc. Good luck finding elderberry wine in your local liquor store. Just now I found Elderberry wine online for prices ranging from $4.99 a bottle to $16.00 a bottle (Plus Shipping IF they will ship to your location) and still no information on the exact content.


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## CK55 (Oct 17, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> Until I see a contents listing for a concentrate of any kind (Exactly What type of juice) I don't purchase. Too many places will call it a "Blueberry Wine Base concentrate" when in reality it's a mix of Apple, White Grape and Blueberry juices in that order of concentration. You pay more for the real thing but you get what you pay for and YOU get to decide if you want to dilute a Blueberry, Elderberry, Cherry, etc juice with Apple Juice and or White Grape juice.
> Not saying that these don't produce a good wine but they don't produce a true pure wine matching the label on the bottle.
> 
> The Elderberry wine concentrate I ordered will run me about $2.0 per bottle of finished wine. Compare that to what you would pay for a bottle of Real Elderberry wine and by the way good luck finding out what is *really* in that bottle of wine. It may be 100% Elderberry or it may be a mix. Most web site don't tell you or show you a list of contents.
> ...


Agreed


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## Scooter68 (Oct 17, 2018)

Dan Nauman said:


> Thanks Scooter,
> 
> I looked at VB before. Good to know the results are nice.
> 
> And there's no such thing as info overload. All available info is good.



From what I can tell the results are good with VB not necessarily great. Sort of like a wine being drinkable or being enjoyable, a Significant difference. _I don't have any connection to any vendor - I'm just picky and I don't like misleading labels. One more example - Look at those bottle of Ocean Spray 100% Juice drinks. Most times the leading content is Apple Juice followed by Cranberry or Grape Juice THEN the juice names you see on the label. All about making that profit marging NOT about making the best -truest tasting drink possible._


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## WinoDave (Oct 17, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> I haven't ever purchased form them, but some fellow winemakers I know have and seemed favorably impressed with the juice they got. Walkers Wine Juice. https://walkerswinejuice.com/


I was in my wine supply store yesterday and this is the place the owner suggested to me, Walkers Juice. I was told it was 5 gallons of pure juice. The prices and shipping cost seemed reasonable online.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 18, 2018)

From that web site (Walkerwinejuice.com) you can't find out anything about what's in their juice. The price, for blueberry at least is pretty steep - listed at $63.75 per gallon. Checked a few other Fruits and the info just seems very vague and inconsistent. Don't understand why, in the day and age vendors don't realize that their web site pretty important if they want to establish a web presence. Maybe this company can sell everything they make without help from the web, cause their site wouldn't sell me.


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## CK55 (Oct 18, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> From that web site (Walkerwinejuice.com) you can't find out anything about what's in their juice. The price, for blueberry at least is pretty steep - listed at $63.75 per gallon. Checked a few other Fruits and the info just seems very vague and inconsistent. Don't understand why, in the day and age vendors don't realize that their web site pretty important if they want to establish a web presence. Maybe this company can sell everything they make without help from the web, cause their site wouldn't sell me.


That's not per gallon that's for 5 gallons. Per gallon is $9.

Also it has no additives. I emailed and asked bunch of questions and support was happy to reply.


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## WinoDave (Oct 18, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> From that web site (Walkerwinejuice.com) you can't find out anything about what's in their juice. The price, for blueberry at least is pretty steep - listed at $63.75 per gallon. Checked a few other Fruits and the info just seems very vague and inconsistent. Don't understand why, in the day and age vendors don't realize that their web site pretty important if they want to establish a web presence. Maybe this company can sell everything they make without help from the web, cause their site wouldn't sell me.





CK55 said:


> That's not per gallon that's for 5 gallons. Per gallon is $9.
> 
> Also it has no additives. I emailed and asked bunch of questions and support was happy to reply.



Walkers seems legit to me. The only negative comment I found online was that if you want to make a Red Wine that the “Hot Pressing” of the grapes they do gives a red wine less body and aroma. I think I’m going to try out their peach bucket and see how it goes.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 18, 2018)

CK55 said:


> That's not per gallon that's for 5 gallons. Per gallon is $9.
> 
> Also it has no additives. I emailed and asked bunch of questions and support was happy to reply.



If you still have them and don't mind, could you post some of the Q&A here?


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## Scooter68 (Oct 18, 2018)

_*"That's not per gallon that's for 5 gallons. Per gallon is $9."*_

Not according to the web page.

I'm not trying to be difficult here but nowadays it's up to the company to put the information out there IF they want to sell their product. Lack of clarity will cost them sales. I should not have to email them to get answers or call. Look at that page, it's rather bland and lacking info. Furthermore the info is inconsistent from one product to another. 
Here's their page on the Blueberry juice. The price (in the upper center) does not state quantity BUT the description does and it says "Per gallon" Logically one connects those two. And yes I see the weight listed as 50.00 lbs which just adds to the confusion. 

When there are other options - I go elsewhere because I don't need the hassle. *The OP was looking for juice concentrate sources.* I would never point someone to a site where the info is confusing - you shouldn't have to dig, write or call to get basic information from a seller. IF they want to sell make it easy for customers. This company went to the trouble to compartment their site into a Retail and a Wholesale side - from the looks of the retail side - Retail sales is not a big thing to them.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 18, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> _*"That's not per gallon that's for 5 gallons. Per gallon is $9."*_
> 
> Not according to the web page.
> 
> ...



Preach it, brother!

In all seriousness, their site is a little confusing. But it seems like the prices are for their hot packs, which they describe as five gallons sealed hot, with yeast and nutrient added, that begins fermenting when you open it. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Still thinking homewinery.com looks the most like what I want.


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## CK55 (Oct 18, 2018)

They told me it doesn't have nutrients and the yeast is wild yeast, that you just add sulfites and get going after the standard 24 hours.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 18, 2018)

I emailed WalkerWineJuice and got a reply. In fairness to all I'm posting the links that they gave me. I will not post all the content of the email (It's not important to answer the OP question) 

So here is the info on their juices. Their juices (Retail?) are ONLY sold in "Hot Packs" Here's the link to that info https://walkerswinejuice.com/retail/services/retail-hot-pack-prices/

I also asked about the pH and Brix info and I was only told that the Blueberry is at 21 brix anything else is here: https://walkerswinejuice.com/retail/services/instructions/acid-ph-results/

Would be nice if they also included the Brix of each juice but.. 

Their prices, while not outrageous are not really that great and shipping is high since they are shipping 5 gallon buckets. 
The result is that for me 2 x 5 gallon buckets of Blueberry Juice would run $202.62 with shipping to northwest Arkansas or about $4.00 per bottle of wine.


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## CK55 (Oct 18, 2018)

T


Scooter68 said:


> I emailed WalkerWineJuice and got a reply. In fairness to all I'm posting the links that they gave me. I will not post all the content of the email (It's not important to answer the OP question)
> 
> So here is the info on their juices. Their juices (Retail?) are ONLY sold in "Hot Packs" Here's the link to that info https://walkerswinejuice.com/retail/services/retail-hot-pack-prices/
> 
> ...


That is wrong, they are shipping pouches of juice like you receive In a wine kit. And for me it said shipping was free when I added to cart.

I'm going to try them out I ordered 3 different hot packs.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 18, 2018)

CK55 said:


> T
> 
> That is wrong, they are shipping pouches of juice like you receive In a wine kit. And for me it said shipping was free when I added to cart.
> 
> I'm going to try them out I ordered 3 different hot packs.



I would LOVE to try a pouch, especially with free shipping. But I can't find it anywhere on their site. Did you have to call it in?


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## CK55 (Oct 18, 2018)

Dan Nauman said:


> I would LOVE to try a pouch, especially with free shipping. But I can't find it anywhere on their site. Did you have to call it in?


I did call yeah, bit you don't have to. If you order more than 1 they will probably give you free shipping if you call in.


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## CK55 (Oct 18, 2018)

Dan Nauman said:


> I would LOVE to try a pouch, especially with free shipping. But I can't find it anywhere on their site. Did you have to call it in?


I ordered the Riesling, Pinot noir and Frontenac. Because I thought I would like to try those.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 18, 2018)

From Walkerwinejuice - _the text of the email I received today:_

"Thanks for the feedback. Our former website was in some serious need of updating, so we just launched this new website less than a month ago. I will get this information updated. *The only items for sale in our store are our 5 gallon Hot Packs* (there is a brief explanation of hot packs at the top of this page). It is 100% blueberry juice, standardized to 21 brix. We do not mix other varieties together unless it is one of our blends, which is noted by the category (Red, White, Fruit, or Blends). You can find our acid and pH results *here *(you will find this under the 'Services' tab).

If you need anything else you can call my boss, Matt, at 716-673-9463 ext 1016.

Thank you,
Jenn"

_*Please note the underlined text in red. Their words not mine. 

The price I listed on my last post was taken from the "Cart" prices. I entered a quantity of 2 hot packs and identified my home address for a shipping estimate.

"Hot Pack" Info - again from their site: 
"HOT-PACK PRICES
Our 5 gallon containers of juice packaged at a high temperature. As the juice cools the container seals itself shut and will not start fermenting until opened. Every Hot-Pack comes with an instructional pamphlet, yeast, and yeast nutrient."

They don't say pouch or bucket but the prices for shipping are THEIR prices listed on their site.

*_


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## cmason1957 (Oct 18, 2018)

I must just be less discerning or something. I was pretty sure all they ever sold RETAIL was the 5 gallon Hot Packs, that's 5 gallons of pure juice of the item selected. The web site was good enough, but I'm not that picky, I remember Netscape 4.7 and having to make web pages for that.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 18, 2018)

cmason1957 you are dating yourself....  - Yeah I get picky - been burned once or twice but thanks to buying through Amazon most of the time, I have usually escaped with only my pride wounded.

Guess for me - I expect sellers to give some info IF they want my business. Their prices just don't impress me but then I'm a bit "Thrifty" at times.


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## CK55 (Oct 18, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> cmason1957 you are dating yourself....  - Yeah I get picky - been burned once or twice but thanks to buying through Amazon most of the time, I have usually escaped with only my pride wounded.
> 
> Guess for me - I expect sellers to give some info IF they want my business. Their prices just don't impress me but then I'm a bit "Thrifty" at times.


The prices are cheaper than a good kit, but yeah, I wanted to try out some of the juice and see if it makes a good wine. If so it might be a valid source untill I get my vines raised. 

I am all for 5 gallons of good juice and including yeast and stuff separate is great.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 18, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> cmason1957 you are dating yourself....  - Yeah I get picky - been burned once or twice but thanks to buying through Amazon most of the time, I have usually escaped with only my pride wounded.
> 
> Guess for me - I expect sellers to give some info IF they want my business. Their prices just don't impress me but then I'm a bit "Thrifty" at times.


I tell my grandkids I am older than dirt. Actually, I was at a birthday celebration tonight for a friend. She just got that 5 as her first digit. I chuckled. I remember that time.


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## Dan Nauman (Oct 19, 2018)

CK55 said:


> I ordered the Riesling, Pinot noir and Frontenac. Because I thought I would like to try those.



If you're able to, please report back regarding the experience and product when you get it. Very curious.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 19, 2018)

FYI Estimate this morning from their site. (_You have to go through "Estimate Shipping" to get a number there otherwise it just gets tacked on at the end)_
Think I'll stick to my current sources that run me about $35.00-$40.00 for juice for 3 gallons (With shipping)


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## cmason1957 (Oct 19, 2018)

At $35/ 3gallons, I get $2.33 per bottle at $300/15 gallons I get $2.40 per bottle. But whatever. Each one of those items is 5 gallons of juice. Shipping seems a bit, but they would be fairly heavy. each to their own. Makes me no nevermind.


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## Scooter68 (Oct 19, 2018)

Gallons 15 x 5 bottles per gallon = 75 $302.00/75 = $4.03 / bottle

Peach and Cherry juice prices OK but most are more.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 19, 2018)

It wouldn't surprise me if I dropped an extra something in that calculation. It's what happens when you do it in your head sometimes. gotta figure out how to get more people to go in and cut that shipping cost down, I suppose.


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## CK55 (Oct 19, 2018)

Dan Nauman said:


> If you're able to, please report back regarding the experience and product when you get it. Very curious.


I will


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## sour_grapes (Oct 19, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if I dropped an extra something in that calculation. It's what happens when you do it in your head sometimes. gotta figure out how to get more people to go in and cut that shipping cost down, I suppose.



Craig, you did 5*25 = 125 instead of 5*15 = 75. I actually recognize that mistake from experience!


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## Scooter68 (Oct 19, 2018)

cmason1957 said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if I dropped an extra something in that calculation. It's what happens when you do it in your head sometimes. gotta figure out how to get more people to go in and cut that shipping cost down, I suppose.



Yeah That shipping is a killer. Otherwise if the quality is good the prices for the juices aren't outrageous bad. Shipping 50 pounds isn't cheap regardless of how you pack it but I have seen, and even worked at places where the shipping charges (Shipping department) are considered another source of profit for the company. It's not like one of us walking up to UPS to ship a present to Aunt Martha - we don't consider our time to wrap, label etc

If it was a short drive to pickup no big deal but anywhere New York State is too far for me.


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## CK55 (Oct 19, 2018)

Scooter68 said:


> Yeah That shipping is a killer. Otherwise if the quality is good the prices for the juices aren't outrageous bad. Shipping 50 pounds isn't cheap regardless of how you pack it but I have seen, and even worked at places where the shipping charges (Shipping department) are considered another source of profit for the company. It's not like one of us walking up to UPS to ship a present to Aunt Martha - we don't consider our time to wrap, label etc


I owned a business I know shipping costs they are big because it takes someone time to package label and make sure a package is good to go it's both actual cost of shipping and labor costs.


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## cmason1957 (Oct 19, 2018)

sour_grapes said:


> Craig, you did 5*25 = 125 instead of 5*15 = 75. I actually recognize that mistake from experience!


Good deal. I redid them with a scrap of paper and couldn't figure out what the heck I did to get my number. Glad someone could tell what stupid thing I did. Oh well.
I know, I was doing convince the wife it's a good idea math! [emoji28][emoji28][emoji28][emoji23][emoji23]

I wish I could blame wine, but it was a dry day, until supper time.


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