# Making the softest Petite Sirah possible



## NorCal (Sep 6, 2021)

I’ll be getting a bin (1,000 lb) of late harvest (27+ brix) Petite Sirah (PS) next week. I’ve drank more PS that I did didn’t like than PS that I’ve enjoyed. The tannin and gripiness of the wine has made it not all that enjoyable to me, unless I’m eating a big fat steak. My goal is to make a dark, fruit forward, soft, smooth Petite Sirah that is approachable at an early age.

plan:
- super clean sort, no stems, no jacks
- water back to 25.5-26.0
- conservative on any acid adjustment, living with a 3.8 wine
- easy on the punch downs
- pull off the skins at 1 brix
- free run only into the barrel
- easy on the oak; 2nd year equivalent French oak, medium toast

Any other ideas? 


Picture of my retired barrels care of @4score.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 6, 2021)

Don't know if Lallzyme or other similar enzymes are part of your normal protocol, but skipping those may be in order if they are. Otherwise, I think you have a good plan of attack.


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## crushday (Sep 6, 2021)

Is there a way to stop the ferment at 1.000 - 0.998? A teeny bit of residual sugar might help your cause...

I'm not a fan of sorbate - do you have a way of cold crashing and filtering?


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## pgentile (Sep 6, 2021)

Sounds like you are trying to create cold fusion with wine. An early drinking PS might not be possible. I've never come across a PS I didn't like though, the more tannin and gripiness the better, but to each his own. Your approach sounds good.

Those skins are going to have a lot of goodness in them still, second run wine?


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## NorCal (Sep 7, 2021)

pgentile said:


> Sounds like you are trying to create cold fusion with wine. An early drinking PS might not be possible. I've never come across a PS I didn't like though, the more tannin and gripiness the better, but to each his own. Your approach sounds good.
> 
> Those skins are going to have a lot of goodness in them still, second run wine?


This is what I love about wine making. There is no right way. Ive made a second wine 3X and dumped them each time, swearing I’d never do it again. I’m not a fan of a tannic, oaky wine…just not a wine I enjoy. I want the boldness of a PS, yet the finesse of a Merlot. Possible? Not sure, but I’ll try.


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## NorCal (Sep 7, 2021)

crushday said:


> Is there a way to stop the ferment at 1.000 - 0.998? A teeny bit of residual sugar might help your cause...
> 
> I'm not a fan of sorbate - do you have a way of cold crashing and filtering?


I wouldn’t bet on someone’s ability to stop a ferment, without adding alcohol greater than yeast‘s ability to work. I would press early to avoid tannin extraction in a high alcohol environment that would exist later in the ferment.


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## Jay A (Sep 7, 2021)

Would you consider low ferm temps? Might be catch 22, longer fermentation, but less extraction?


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## Cynewulf (Sep 7, 2021)

This may not be exactly what you’re going for, but I’ve had a delicious, lighter bodied saperavi on a couple of trips to Georgia made by Iberieli. A lot of the saperavi made there can be brutally tannic but this one was very nice drinking young. I can’t find notes from my discussion with the lady working in the wine shop of the collective but I think she said the winemaker essentially did an inverse saignée, pressing off around 15% of the skins and adding the juice back in to the must for a higher juice to skin ratio, resulting in a fruitier and less tannic (but still very red) wine. It’s delicious but from your description I’m not sure it’s the style you’re after as it may end up being easier to drink but also a bit lighter than you are going for.


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## BarrelMonkey (Sep 7, 2021)

This recipe for elderberry wine might have a couple of useful ideas. The challenge seems similar: elderberries have a high skin/seed:juice ratio so using a lot of fruit can make very tannic wine:

- Cold soak to get some extraction before alcoholic fermentation starts. Add SO2 to help mitigate potential spoilage during this phase.
- Press off some or all of the must before fermentation is finished and add back the juice - much as @Cynewulf suggests above, and I guess that's what you're implying by pulling off the skins at 1 brix.

You could also do extended maceration once fermentation is over, but both this and cold soaking before fermentation increase the risk of spoilage - particularly with that high pH. I would be inclined to drop the pH a bit, particularly if you're going to do malolactic conversion which may soften the wine but also bump up the pH. And I wouldn't go too easy on punchdowns, lest you get some VA bacteria established in the cap (again, more likely at higher pH).


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## mainshipfred (Sep 7, 2021)

Don't know if this helps or not. It is from an article in Winemaker Magazine.

*Taming tannins*
There are a number of possible solutions if you have extracted excessive tannins, all very effective. The extent of tannin “removal” depends largely on timing, i.e. trying to remove small vs. large molecules, and concentration.

Tannins have a strong affinity for proteins, and so, you can fine using a protein-containing fining agent such as egg whites, gelatin, or isinglass. Since gelatin comes in different formulations, i.e. low vs. high molecular weight, choose the one that best fits your needs based on the manufacturer’s recommendations, and avoid overfining. Gelatin formulations with different molecular weights show preferential affinity for tannin size.

PVPP, short for polyvinylpolypyrrolidone, is a highly insoluble, high-molecular weight synthetic polymer that is effective in absorbing and precipitating small tannins. And so, PVPP is recommended for early-drinking wine or where bitterness needs to be toned down.

Another potential solution is gum arabic (gum acacia), a natural gum extracted from the sap of specific species of African Acacia trees. It is very effective in reducing tannin astringency and increasing the perception of body or volume, and reducing the perceptions of acidity and tannin harshness, while adding body.

And lastly, you can tame tannins by readjusting the wine balance by tweaking sugar and acidity contents. I often repeat Émile Peynaud’s guidelines; keep them in mind when tweaking your wine. “A wine tolerates acidity better when its alcoholic degree is higher; acid, bitter and astringent tastes reinforce each other; the hardest wines are those which are at the same time acid and also rich in tannins; a considerable amount of tannin is more acceptable if acidity is low and alcohol is high. The less tannic a red wine is, the more acidity it can support (necessary for its freshness); the richer a red wine is in tannins (necessary for its development and for its longevity) the lower should be its acidity; a high tannin content allied to a pronounced acidity produces the hardest and most astringent wines.”


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## Cap Puncher (Sep 7, 2021)

I would try to do multiple delestages during primary fermentation. Basic idea remove cap/ skins into sanitized buckets. Then, pour juice out of the fermentor into separate buckets. Remove the seeds at the bottom. Pour skins back in the primary. juice back on top.

I usually do it once during a ferment. But I know some do it multiple times. You could do each day removing seeds each day. I wouldn’t do it past SG 1.050. Yeast stop taking up oxygen around 9% alcohol. SG of 1.050 is a nice cut point so you don’t over shoot and start to oxidize too much.

To Cynewulf’s point , you could remove some skins each time too.

Less seed tannin later in fermentation should soften the wine.The higher the alcohol the more seed extract later I. The ferment.

This is a lot of work but a classic French technique. They probably describe their process more elegantly, but what I described is home winemakers style and the same concept.

The article below describes the benefits and a more “complicated “ process. The above process I described is the same in concept but definitely easier. I usually use my wife’s stainless Kitchenaid stand mixer bowl (6quarts) for taking out the cap and transferring the juice into buckets. It works well.









Delestage Fermentation: Techniques - WineMakerMag.com


As an enophile, I enjoy almost every type and style of wine. However, my true love is — and always has been — big, bold, oak-aged reds, the type built for the long run. My favorites include rich, peppery California Cabernet Sauvignon, tannin-rich Piedmontese (Italian) Nebbiolo or...




winemakermag.com


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## Chris Johnson (Sep 8, 2021)

Delestage for the win. It also keeps it from going reductive. I did it with Amador fruit last year in Cote Rotie style PS With 3% Vio. It‘s still a monster, but more manageable than it’s cousin which is PS from the same vineyard with a bit of Mouvedre and some Syrah. The cousin may be drinkable in 5-6 years.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 8, 2021)

Chris Johnson said:


> Delestage for the win. It also keeps it from going reductive. I did it with Amador fruit last year in Cote Rotie style PS With 3% Vio. It‘s still a monster, but more manageable than it’s cousin which is PS from the same vineyard with a bit of Mouvedre and some Syrah. The cousin may be drinkable in 5-6 years.



By "Vio", I assume you mean Viognier. And what a great idea - one of my favorite white wines anyway.


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## NorCal (Sep 8, 2021)

Chris Johnson said:


> Delestage for the win. It also keeps it from going reductive. I did it with Amador fruit last year in Cote Rotie style PS With 3% Vio. It‘s still a monster, but more manageable than it’s cousin which is PS from the same vineyard with a bit of Mouvedre and some Syrah. The cousin may be drinkable in 5-6 years.


Alright, going to see if I can figure out how to do this with 1,000 pounds of fruit...the 5-6 years in the bottle is exactly what I am trying to avoid.


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## Jay A (Sep 8, 2021)

Something I've always wanted to try, just difficult at these quantities. Good luck!!


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## Chris Johnson (Sep 9, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> By "Vio", I assume you mean Viognier. And what a great idea - one of my favorite white wines anyway.


Yep, viognier. Gave it a really nice nose and lift. I‘m really pleased with the wine. I wish it was my idea, but Keplinger Sumo was the inspiration.


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## Cap Puncher (Sep 9, 2021)

NorCal said:


> Alright, going to see if I can figure out how to do this with 1,000 pounds of fruit...the 5-6 years in the bottle is exactly what I am trying to avoid


Multiple 5-6 gallon food grade buckets is a good answer. I would use those for the skins. Pump out (or scoop with bucket) the juice to another larger fermentor. Remove seeds. Add skins back in original fermentor and pour/ pump in the juice. I’ve done it with 350 lbs and it takes more time cleaning and sanitizing than anything else. 1000 lb will be some work. Great efforts result great rewards. Good luck!


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## knockabout (Sep 9, 2021)

A touch of glycerin ( range of 2-4 oz for 6 gal has softened things up without adding sweet perception for us when used on some of the bigger reds in past) or Ultima soft or both would help softening up The mouthfeel and the tannins. Scott labs has a super cool finishing kit for trials.


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## Snafflebit (Sep 9, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I’ve drank more PS that I did didn’t like than PS that I’ve enjoyed. The tannin and gripiness of the wine has made it not all that enjoyable to me, unless I’m eating a big fat steak.
> 
> Any other ideas?



I totally agree with you! I am served a LOT of Petite Sirah in Livermore at the tasting rooms and I think the tannic quality is overwhelming. It's not bitter, per se, just too much.... I am eager to hear your results.


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## NorCal (Sep 11, 2021)

An update. 

I consulted on a estate vineyard for a local winery, whose grapes turned out nice this year, versus a total loss last year. In return, they are going to run my grapes through their $50k destemmer and do a berry sort, followed by a 3 day cold soak. How could I say no?

I definitely crossed the “home made” line and won’t be entering this wine in home made competitions, but I’m really excited on what this wine is going to become.


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## Snafflebit (Sep 11, 2021)

Who can compete with an optical berry sorter???


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## Booty Juice (Sep 12, 2021)

Pick late (brown seeds, water back if needed)
Whole berry ferment
Cool temp ferment
No enzyme extraction
No added acid
Soft punch downs
Free run only or very soft press
Old oak, no oak, or polymer aging
Egg white fining to preference (could take 6 to 12 per barrel)
Glycerin to preference


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## NorCal (Sep 13, 2021)

Booty Juice said:


> Pick late (brown seeds, water back if needed)
> Whole berry ferment
> Cool temp ferment
> No enzyme extraction
> ...


Awesome suggestions. It will be going into a neutral barrel, so I'll leave out oak and see how it is tasting.


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## NorCal (Sep 13, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> Who can compete with an optical berry sorter???


Well, it is optically sorted, but with the help of human eyeballs. Super clean must.


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## NorCal (Sep 13, 2021)

Had a good conversation with @4score and @crushday with regard to the end objective of this wine and what I am going to do to achieve it. The clean crush and cold soak defintely are in line with the objective and it was suggested that using a non-saccharomyces yeast prior to alcoholic fermentation would also be inline with my goals of producing a bold, fruity yet soft and non-tannic bold Petite Sirah. I think I'm going to give it a go! 

Here is my check list thus far to make a 60 gallon barrel of the biggest yet softest Petite Sirah possible:

- Late harvest pick, water back to 25-25.5
- Light crush, all green removed from ferment
- no enzyme or added acid
- 3 day cold soak
- Prelude non-saccharomyces ferment (2-3 days)
- easy on the punch downs
- pull off the skins at 1 brix
- free run only (if enough juice, .5 bar press max if needed)
- no or very little oak, light toast


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## Nebbiolo020 (Sep 14, 2021)

I’m interested to see how this wine turns out PS is a varietal I’ve never been fond of because of how tannic it can be and how long it can take to age. Then again I’m impatient I don’t want to have to wait years to drink wine.


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## NorCal (Sep 15, 2021)

Nebbiolo020 said:


> I’m interested to see how this wine turns out PS is a varietal I’ve never been fond of because of how tannic it can be and how long it can take to age. Then again I’m impatient I don’t want to have to wait years to drink wine.


I’m right there with you. I like a big, dark wine, but I want the wine stand on its own, without having to have it with food. Thus the challenge, to make a big dark, PS that does not have the bite and tannin that often accompanies the varietal, without having to lay it down for years.


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## NorCal (Sep 16, 2021)

This grape season has been strange. Sugar accumulation preceded grape ripeness. I remember a discussion whether it is better to pick to sugar level and deal with unripe grapes, or wait until the grapes are ripe (brown, nutty seeds, flesh pulls away from the skins) and deal with the high brix. 

This was the case today! First the logistics of moving 1100 pound bins off of a truck. Tractor rated for lifting around 600 pounds, so half the grapes had to be offloaded, prior to moving off the trailer.



The grapes have been cold soaking, so Prelude inoculation will start tomorrow.



And brix…a new record for me.



I kept to the plan and put in 11 gallons of fresh, clean, well water, bringing brix into the range I wanted.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 16, 2021)

Holy brix, Batman! 

Did you add acid along with the water?


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## NorCal (Sep 16, 2021)

Boatboy24 said:


> Holy brix, Batman!
> 
> Did you add acid along with the water?


I did not. pH came it at a surprising 3.7, which was consistent with the reading that was taken at the winery that did the sorting / cold soak.

check list

- Late harvest pick, water back to 25-25.5 * DONE*
- Light crush, all green removed from ferment *DONE*
- no enzyme or added acid * DONE*
- 3 day cold soak *DONE*
- Prelude non-saccharomyces ferment (2-3 days) * IN PROCESS*
- easy on the punch downs
- pull off the skins at 1 brix
- free run only (if enough juice, .5 bar press max if needed)
- no or very little oak, light toast


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## cmason1957 (Sep 16, 2021)

I have decided I really like the light oakiness that comes from French Oak over the Heavy, in your face US Oak. Due to sampling a very over oaked (3 years in a 1 year old at the start barrel) my wife will kill me if I ever say Hungarian oak. 

Anyway, I wonder if French Oak would be a better choice for this for you??


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## mainshipfred (Sep 16, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> I have decided I really like the light oakiness that comes from French Oak over the Heavy, in your face US Oak. Due to sampling a very over oaked (3 years in a 1 year old at the start barrel) my wife will kill me if I ever say Hungarian oak.
> 
> Anyway, I wonder if French Oak would be a better choice for this for you??



You do know that French and Hungarian oak are the same species, just different territoire.


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## cmason1957 (Sep 16, 2021)

mainshipfred said:


> You do know that French and Hungarian oak are the same species, just different territoire.



You obviously missed the part where I indicated that the objection came from SWMBO. Logic need not (must not???) be applied. All that mattered was wine left for far to long in hungarioan Oak tasted bad, very bad...


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## NorCal (Sep 16, 2021)

cmason1957 said:


> I have decided I really like the light oakiness that comes from French Oak over the Heavy, in your face US Oak. Due to sampling a very over oaked (3 years in a 1 year old at the start barrel) my wife will kill me if I ever say Hungarian oak.
> 
> Anyway, I wonder if French Oak would be a better choice for this for you??


The wine will be aging in a pretty much neutral French oak barrel. If I add any oak, it will be a light or medium toast French spiral.


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## NorCal (Sep 19, 2021)

I may have chickened out a bit on the Prelude, which is my first go with a non-Saccharomyces yeast. @4score, who is the pioneer in our circle with alternative yeasts, gave me the Prelude yeast and told me to go deep with it.

Day 1 harvest, cold storage
Day 2 destemmer/crush/ hand sort, cold storage
Day 3-5 cold soak
Day 6 adjusted to 25.5, inoculate Prelude 7am, 6pm 24 brix
Day 7 8am 23 brix, 6pm 20.5 brix

This is where I chickened out, with only 36 hours, yet 20% of the brix consumed by Prelude and a week since harvest. The Prellude was going faster than expected and I wanted to make sure this wine finished, and I figured 20% of the brix consumed via the unconventional route was enough for me.

It is at this point I decided to call in the big guns and unleashed a full dose of Avante on the 1,000 pound must.

note: my chicken (Henny Penny) picture care of @4score


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## crushday (Sep 19, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I may have chickened out a bit on the Prelude, which is my first go with a non-Saccharomyces yeast. @4score, who is the pioneer in our circle with alternative yeasts, gave me the Prelude yeast and told me to go deep with it.
> 
> Day 1 harvest, cold storage
> Day 2 destemmer/crush/ hand sort, cold storage
> ...


@NorCal - I'm certain this wine will be amazing. I expect a bottle or two, of course, although I fantasize about a full case. Personally, I pitched Prelude and followed up with Avante within three days. The wine finished at .995 by day 11 at press. I'm confident you'll be pleased.


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## Cap Puncher (Sep 19, 2021)

NorCal said:


> This is where I chickened out, with only 36 hours, yet 20% of the brix consumed by Prelude and a week since harvest. The Prellude was going faster than expected and I wanted to make sure this wine finished, and I figured 20% of the brix consumed via the unconventional route was enough for me.



I think you made a good call, I let zymaflore Alpha (same species as prelude) get down to 1.063 on a Zinfandel FWK. I followed with Avante. I ended up with a bit a sulfur funk (but did leave on the lees too long). It cured easily with reduceless but I didn’t expect it. I added a dose a fermaid O when I pinched Zymaflore Alpha and fermaid K when pinching Avante. I think the zymaflore Alpha got stressed from letting it got too deep.


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## NorCal (Sep 24, 2021)

I have a decision to make re: achieving the objective. I want to make the 60 gallon barrel the absolute best it could be I ended up with 40 gallons PS free run and 30 gallon press wine. I also have 25 gallons of free run Mourvèdre. Should I:
1. 40 gallon free run PS, 20 gallon press PS.
2. 40 gallon free run PS, 20 gallon free run Mourvèdre 

I would be meeting the 75% to meet the varietal cut off, either way. I’ve tasted the pressed, and while only pressed to 1 bar, the difference is noticeable, but not in a night/day way. I’d say a 15% difference. The Mourvèdre was a high brix ferment, will be a good wine by itself.


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## crushday (Sep 25, 2021)

@NorCal - for what it’s worth, I’m partial to option #1. It best reflects your initial intentions. Besides, my experience with ‘Ved places it a bit more tannic than PS. Is it 15% more tannic, like your press PS? Not sure. 

Stick to the plan…


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## Snafflebit (Sep 25, 2021)

Right. You wanted to make petite sirah, not a blend.


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## Boatboy24 (Sep 25, 2021)

Agree with the others. Stick with PS. Your objective is a soft Petit Sirah. Make a soft Petit Sirah. It will be excellent.


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## Jay A (Sep 25, 2021)

Stay the course! You can always blend prior to bottling.


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## NorCal (Sep 25, 2021)

Jay A said:


> Stay the course! You can always blend prior to bottling.


That is the dilemma, I need to make the decision today on what wine to put into the barrel. The free run Mourvedre is quite soft, so It meets that objective and while it is blending two wines, it is less than 25%, meeting the criteria to still call it a Petite Sirah.
I think I will re-taste the two PS wines and if I don’t think the pressed PS will deter the final wine from being soft, I’ll include it. Thanks for the feedback.

Late harvest pick, water back to 25-25.5 *DONE*
- Light crush, all green removed from ferment *DONE*
- no enzyme or added acid *DONE*
- 3 day cold soak *DONE*
- Prelude non-saccharomyces ferment (2-3 days) *DONE*
- easy on the punch downs *DONE*
- pull off the skins at 1 brix *DONE (.5 brix)*
- free run only (if enough juice, .5 bar press max if needed) i*n process*
- no or very little oak, light toast


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## Booty Juice (Sep 25, 2021)

I would make the best tasting wine possible, i.e., blend the free run MV in lieu of dogmatically holding to your initial plan.

Adapt, improvise and overcome.


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## ovjock (Sep 25, 2021)

I would like to add a counter argument. Petite Sirah is what it is - it's the bully on the playground. If you want something with a better attitude, I would blend it with something softer. Remember the fable about the Frog and Scorpion - at the end, the scorpion says "I cant help it, it's in my nature". PS is the scorpion.


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## NorCal (Sep 26, 2021)

ovjock said:


> I would like to add a counter argument. Petite Sirah is what it is - it's the bully on the playground. If you want something with a better attitude, I would blend it with something softer. Remember the fable about the Frog and Scorpion - at the end, the scorpion says "I cant help it, it's in my nature". PS is the scorpion.


If I could give 100 likes, I would. I had to watch a YouTube to learn the fable, you have totally captured the situation. PS is by nature big, bold and tannic, not going to change that. Small berries, thick skins result in a wine that is dark as ink, yet also have the harshness that can accompany the vast majority of the single PS that I've had.


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## NorCal (Sep 26, 2021)

I did a taste test of the 40 gallons of free run PS and it was really dark, rich in flavors and very little tannin. The 35 gallons of pressed PS was also dark, rich in flavors, but the tannin was really strong. This astringency is what I was looking to avoid in the wine. I tasted the Mourvedre free run and it was really nice. The decision for me was easy, the barrel is 2/3 free run PS 1/3 free run Mourvedre. 

While I know the tannins would have tamed over a few years or I could throw products and hit the 75% or 100% number to call it a PS. However this wine is for my family and friends and I know they wouldn’t care.

So, did I make the softest Petite Sirah possible? Technically no, I wasn’t able to make a satisfactorily soft 60 gallon barrel of Petite Sirah, with the amount of grapes I got. However, I did make the softest Petite Sirah blend that I could and I’m looking forward to how this wine turns out.


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## NorCal (Sep 26, 2021)

I also got a bin of Mourvèdre that I was splitting with a pal. When he showed up I gave him the option of 30g Mourvèdre and 10g PS like we had planned or 30g PS and 10g Mourvèdre. We poured samples of each and I know he likes a big wine, so it was no surprise he chose the 30g of pressed PS. Definitely a win win. I would say it was a perfect ending to the season.
I have the 60g PS/Ved barrel, 20g Ved and 5g of pressed PS. That along with another 30g of other wine wraps up the season.


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## Snafflebit (Sep 26, 2021)

Well, 60 gallons of petite sirah is a lot of wine. That amount of wine needs to be good wine. I bet 100% free run will taste amazing.

if you get the opportunity to sample wine at Turley in Napa or Paso Robles, they make six petite sirah wines. We had the 2019 Napa Valley Petite Sirah last night. We play a game of “Guess That Wine” and I could not guess it but I liked it and when I learned it is PS, I started swearing! LOL. I think they are making Varietal PS in a very drinkable manner.


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## NorCal (Sep 27, 2021)

Snafflebit said:


> Well, 60 gallons of petite sirah is a lot of wine. That amount of wine needs to be good wine. I bet 100% free run will taste amazing.
> 
> if you get the opportunity to sample wine at Turley in Napa or Paso Robles, they make six petite sirah wines. We had the 2019 Napa Valley Petite Sirah last night. We play a game of “Guess That Wine” and I could not guess it but I liked it and when I learned it is PS, I started swearing! LOL. I think they are making Varietal PS in a very drinkable manner.


I’ll have to find that.


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## ibglowin (Sep 27, 2021)

My source for many hard to source wines has a couple bottles.






turley estate napa valley petite syrah | K&L Wine Merchants







www.klwines.com








NorCal said:


> I’ll have to find that.


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## Snafflebit (Sep 27, 2021)

Actually the other Turley tasting room is in Amador, not too far from you @NorCal

and, as another datapoint, tonight I decided to crack open a bottle of 2010 Turnbull Petite Sirah to see if maybe I was being unfairly partial to the Turley wine. I figure 11 years in bottle should tame those PS tannins. Turnbull is a premium Napa Valley winery I expect they know how to make wine, and they do make excellent Cabs and blends. This PS is very tannic at the start and we are powering through the first 15 minutes in the glass and really should have decanted it. The wine gets better after 30 minutes but it’s not lovely and I end up with a tongue as inky black as a Chow-Chow. Not a premium experience! There is no question that the Turley PS is better.


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## NorCal (Nov 11, 2021)

MLF is done and I racked the 67/33 PS blend barrel and the 5 gallons of 100% pressed PS that I retained. The barrel had a minor off smell, so went out of my way to splash rack and gave it a full dose of SO2. All better. The tannin of the 5 gallons of pressed PS had calmed way, way down! I mean 80% of the way down.

I‘m now having remorse that I didn’t use the 20 gallons of pressed PS in the barrel, instead of the free run Ved. I guess I can only make the best decisions I can make at the time and learn from what I would have done different In the future.

Its not that I think the barrel will be bad, rather, I would have preferred a 100% PS, just so I could have proved to myself that I could do what I had set out to do.


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## crushday (Nov 11, 2021)

NorCal said:


> MLF is done and I racked the 67/33 PS blend barrel and the 5 gallons of 100% pressed PS that I retained. The barrel had a minor off smell, so went out of my way to splash rack and gave it a full dose of SO2. All better. The tannin of the 5 gallons of pressed PS had calmed way, way down! I mean 80% of the way down.
> 
> I‘m now having remorse that I didn’t use the 20 gallons of pressed PS in the barrel, instead of the free run Ved. I guess I can only make the best decisions I can make at the time and learn from what I would have done different In the future.
> 
> Its not that I think the barrel will be bad, rather, I would have preferred a 100% PS, just so I could have proved to myself that I could do what I had set out to do.


I appreciate everything about this string. It makes us all better!


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## winemaker81 (Nov 12, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I‘m now having remorse that I didn’t use the 20 gallons of pressed PS in the barrel, instead of the free run Ved.


You made the best decision you could based upon the available knowledge.

If you had used the pressed PS, you'd actually be farther from your goal, regardless of how much tannin it dropped. Besides, making a soft PS/Mourvedre is also a tremendous accomplishment!

Another accomplishment is that you are inspiring some of your compatriots on WMT to make specialized wines. Threads like this are idea factories.


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## CDrew (Nov 12, 2021)

What a good thread, thanks for documenting the progress. No second guessing! I agree that you made the best decision in real time that you could, and it will be great in the end. Your 67/33 blend may well be superior to the straight PS. I'd call it PS on the label without hesitation. I'll be very curious to taste (or trade) in a few years once it's mature.


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## NorCal (Dec 17, 2021)

I did a barrel tasting and the wine is defintely asking for some oak. I have gravitated toward medium French oak. I just like the more subtle notes that French oak adds. I purchased a barrel spiral pack for $81 and added 4 of the 6 spirals in the neutral barrel. The 6 spirals is suppose to give 90-100% of a new barrel...so I added 60%-67% the equivalent of a medium toast new barrel. Maybe a little heavier on the oak than I originally planned, but I think it will complement this big, dark wine.

Late harvest pick, water back to 25-25.5 *DONE*
- Light crush, all green removed from ferment *DONE*
- no enzyme or added acid *DONE*
- 3 day cold soak *DONE*
- Prelude non-saccharomyces ferment (2-3 days) *DONE*
- easy on the punch downs *DONE*
- pull off the skins at 1 brix *DONE (.5 brix)*
- free run only (if enough juice, .5 bar press max if needed)* DONE*
- no or very little oak, light toast *CLOSE*


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## hounddawg (Dec 17, 2021)

NorCal said:


> I’ll be getting a bin (1,000 lb) of late harvest (27+ brix) Petite Sirah (PS) next week. I’ve drank more PS that I did didn’t like than PS that I’ve enjoyed. The tannin and gripiness of the wine has made it not all that enjoyable to me, unless I’m eating a big fat steak. My goal is to make a dark, fruit forward, soft, smooth Petite Sirah that is approachable at an early age.
> 
> plan:
> - super clean sort, no stems, no jacks
> ...


NOW your after a old hillbilly's heart, is that a metal post covered in duct tape ? ,,, LMAO
Dawg


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## NorCal (Dec 18, 2021)

hounddawg said:


> NOW your after a old hillbilly's heart, is that a metal post covered in duct tape ? ,,, LMAO
> Dawg


Hey @hounddawg, I think you are refering to this pole with the red arrow? It is part of a horse paddock partition, just a big galvanized pipe.


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## hounddawg (Dec 18, 2021)

NorCal said:


> Hey @hounddawg, I think you are refering to this pole with the red arrow? It is part of a horse paddock partition, just a big galvanized pipe.
> 
> View attachment 82339


yup i see now, eyes are going
Dawg


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## buzi (Dec 20, 2021)

@NorCal another wonderful thread. You might need to start writing for Winemaker magazine  I just found the thread and would like to add one consideration for next year partial/semi- carbonic maceration. 

Thanks for the great read and all the great suggestions from others!


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## NorCal (Jun 3, 2022)

I thought I would update the thread, as it's been 8 months. I've been tasting along the way and the wine is clean and has achieved the darkness and depth of flavor that I was searching for. Even with all I've done, there is some tannin there, but not mouth numbing tannin. I would really like this wine to stay in the barrel another 9 months; I think it would really soften and become a better wine with additional micro-ox. However, I will have this season's wine that will need to go in that barrel, so it will be bottled in 3 months or so.


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## Snafflebit (Jun 3, 2022)

buy more barrels! I think this is how half of all wineries begin


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## NorCal (Jun 4, 2022)

Snafflebit said:


> buy more barrels! I think this is how half of all wineries begin


I’ve started businesses. For me, this will remain a hobby. Limiting my capacity is a good way to curb my enthusiasm to make wine.


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