# Crash course on growing grapes



## TJsBasement (Mar 18, 2012)

I know it's me again Mr Million Questions, we just picked up two 5 acre parcels and me dad asked me if we should grow some wine grapes, "heck yeah we should". He loves growing stuff to begin with, his porch looks like a rain forest so with me getting into wine it just makes sense. Says they grew eating grapes when he was a kid and he was the care taker. We already have a few fruit plants at my parents house ( they live a crossed the street ) like apple, peach, plum, one tree with 3 different pears, a few berry and he just planted 5 grape, not sure what kind of grape. 

So I'm in south west PA and looking for some crash course books on growing wine grapes. I'm in the process of reading everything on here and wonder if there are a few books I should start with too. We have not had the soil tested yet. And the property is about 12 miles away, there is no real need to tend to the plants all the time right, unless it's really dry would we need to visit it more then every couple weeks beside pruning and harvest. 

My father thinks we should have some bees there too and he didn't even know what mead is at the time , I'm not sure who is nuts here me or him.


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## ibglowin (Mar 18, 2012)

I would recommend From Vines to Wine available from Amazon as a good starting point. Also contact your county extension agent and see if they can come out and look at the site and give some advise. Check out Double A Vineyards website for what varietals will grow in your region as well. I personally think they are one of the best places out there for information as well as high quality vines.


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## SLOweather (Mar 18, 2012)

Also Vineyard Simple by Tom Powers...


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## gird123 (Mar 18, 2012)

Grapes don't need a pollinator. And if there is nothing in bloom and the grapes are ripe i have read the bees will pierce the grapes. I did a bunch of elderberries last fall and one of the buckets was outside and I had bees on the covering. I have bees on the property so whenever there is sugar water (i.e. soda, grape juice...) there are bees otherwise we don't know they are there.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 18, 2012)

Both books ordered. And thanks for the tip about bees, I'll be reading more on that later before we really do anything in that direction.


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## grapeman (Mar 18, 2012)

No, you don't need the bees for pollination. The wind does that for you. 

How many grapes do you plan on planting? What type of soil is it and how flat or hilly is it? Lot's of questions to be explored before you plant.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 18, 2012)

TJ, sounds like an interesting venture. Any idea of how many acres you're going to plant or what your budget is yet? Depending on the variety of grape you're looking at about 10-$15,000 per acre when it's all said and done.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 18, 2012)

I haven't seen the property yet. We may go looking sometime this week if so I'll take and post pictures. Is there any simple soil test I can do or stuff growing to look out for that could indicate junk soil, this is just a project thing not a commercial investment. And I'm only 29 so I'll use the info that I acquire at some point in life. 

The one lot has road on two sides and a small creek I think but one is land locked so we'll have to meet the neighbors I guess, it was a package deal and you take what you get for a super price.


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Mar 18, 2012)

sounds like a great deal, what was the property used for in the past. I have a friend with a vineyard and it was an old corn field and 2-4-D was used, he has a heck of a time keeping his plants alive, even after a number of years..
good luck, keep us up to date..


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## TxBrew (Mar 19, 2012)

From Vines to Wine is a great place to start but a lot of colleges also have good local information which is even more vital.


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## BARBQ (Mar 20, 2012)

Your local Ag Extension agent is your best bet. They may even have a Viticulture Advisors or Specialists for your region. They are the ones that are in constant contact with you the vineyards in your area and can advise you what the latest and greatest is in growing grapes in your area. Even if you read the books you should contact them. Sometimes they conduct classes or workshops you can attend. I would recommend this before dumping alot of money in trellising and buying vines to plant.


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## OilnH2O (Mar 21, 2012)

I'll second the Ag agent. You'll be surprised what they can tell you - might even be able to look at a shovel full of soil, and because they already know so much of their own area, they could tell you pretty close to what you've got. And they may be happy to walk the land with you. 

You'll be surprised how much work even a half acre of grapes can be! This might not be a "drop by every two weeks" operation if you plant all your acreage! Be careful what you wish for!!!


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## TJsBasement (Mar 22, 2012)

Ok I'll be looking into the Ag thing. I don't think we will plant even enough grapes to measure by the acreage, we already owned this property, its just sitting unused. Still haven't seen the property but I did almost get the tax map out to look again, almost. 

I when to wally to get some oxy clean and they had grapes on the way in, couldn't help it and I got 3 of each concord, himrod and canadice. No I didn't research these at all and I hope to plant them and the other flowers my wife got in the back yard tomorrow. So it's official they are my first 9 grape plants


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## TJsBasement (Mar 23, 2012)

After a tiny bit of reading I see them 3 types are more eating and less wine grapes, that's ok, my boy can pick eating grapes in a few years. 

Are there any sponsored sellers on here that sell wine grape plants or is that something that most people buy local. I haven't really looked around yet.


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## grapeman (Mar 23, 2012)

Double A Vineyards- near Buffalo NY www.rakgrape.com
NE Vine SUpply - Andy Farmer- Vermont www.nevinesupply.com
Grafted Grapevine - NY www.graftedgrapevines.com
All are good suppliers.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 24, 2012)

Has anyone started a winemakers help group like AA yet. I ordered some cuttings, I know it's about the slowest and hardest way beside growing from seed but if I'm here to learn "lets do it" An ebay seller had a pack of 10 cuttings each of 10 different types. 
Concord
Niagara
Catawba
Cayuga
Steuben
Elvira
Chambourcin
Vidal Blanc
Vignoles Ravat
Leon Millot
I know long hard and high failure rate but ya gotta learn some how. This is still vines for the backyard, to try and plant any real number I would probably just order them from a supplier and be done with it. 

I'm still pursuing planting vines at the other property but in no real hurry to do so.


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## grapeman (Mar 24, 2012)

Most of those varieties should root fine for you and you should expect 50-90% sucess rate. If the grower has clean stock you will be fine, but there are diseases that can be spread cuttings. That is why most of the reputable nurseries are spending a lot of money and time to gain virus free material to provide virus free vines. If you have a leaf roll virus in the wood, it will be in the vine. You can also spread crown gall from infected wood. None of these will kill the vines quickly, but can cause vascular collapse and part of the vine will die back suddenly. Just some food for thought.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 25, 2012)

First off I truly appreciate all the help from everyone in this thread and all the other thousands of post in the many other threads. Grapeman soon as I read your post I was thinking the same thing, should have gotten cuttings from a for sure clean source. No damage done yet, they was cheap and my uncle would love them, should I bail on the ebay clippings. I didn't even think about bringing disease around.


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## grapeman (Mar 25, 2012)

Chances are they are alright, but who knows. you can try to root them at least for the experience.then decide if they are ok to keep or not.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 25, 2012)

I sent a message to the ebay seller. He said they are a licensed and inspected nursery and sell loads of cuttings and vines for the past 4 years, so I'm gonna take this as a serious attempt to grow plants. 

Any brand of root hormones you guys recommend I read its not needed but it cant hurt right, if not I'll just get some from the local hydro shop.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 25, 2012)

I guess I'll use this as my vineyard thread. I got the nine table grapes in the ground, so project Yankee Vino Winery is underway. More pictures will be up soon as I mow the lawn/weeds, the yard is all fill put in at the end of last year so its more small weeds then grass right now. 

This is a Concord about 12"


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## TJsBasement (Mar 26, 2012)

Poor little guys are gonna freeze tonight. Will the bags help at all, weather channel has a "hard freeze" warning tonight, 3 hours in the 20's. 

This photo is looking south and all the bushes are coming out or getting some serious love with a sawz all. My other spot is better, full sun dawn to dusk but the hill is a slight slope to the west.


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## ibglowin (Mar 27, 2012)

Good luck, I tried that last year on my vines. Looked very much like yours with trash bags and all. We ended up dropping to 22 last year on April 9th IIRC. All the vines were toast.  

We got yet another freeze in late April last year as well but they had not budded back from that so no extra damage. They bounced back fine and grew for the most part like weeds the rest of last Summer. 

I think trash bags may work for a few degrees below freezing but probably not much below ~28 degrees or so. For colder than that perhaps get all the towels out of the house for extra added insulation!


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## Brew and Wine Supply (Mar 27, 2012)

alot too is how warm the ground is, the heat will rise into the bags to help keep from freezing. I agree with Ib, grab the towells and sheets to insulate.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 27, 2012)

I was going to cover with them silver emergency blankets but I just didnt find the time and used materials at hand. 

I got some LED grow lights to start them cuttings in a controlled environment, now I just need some hormone and a warming mat.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 27, 2012)

Yep they got frostbite, do I clip off everything that's smushy. Hey the good news all the thistles are perfect.


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## Randoneur (Mar 27, 2012)

I would not cut anything off, leave them alone and be very patient.
IMO the seller should have timed the shipment to you *after* your frost free date.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 27, 2012)

It was my fault, got um at wally. Them days in the 80's tricked me. These 9 was an impulse buy and they are table grapes so I don't feel so bad about it. 

I'll be using more protection for wine varieties and they are cuttings so by the time I root then pot then plant we will be well past the cold, I hope, then I'll learn what's next on the OH sh!t list.


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## grapeman (Mar 27, 2012)

They should push a secondary bud alright. Don't worry too much at this point.


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## Runningwolf (Mar 27, 2012)

We were warned NOT to use plastic but use sheets for frost protection.


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## ibglowin (Mar 27, 2012)

Thats not what they taught us in High School! 



Runningwolf said:


> We were warned NOT to use plastic but use sheets for protection.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 28, 2012)

I'm hacking them bushes down and found some grape vines, frost didn't hurt them. Looks like little bunches of grapes all over it.


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## grapeman (Mar 28, 2012)

Vitis Riparia or wild grape vines native to many areas of the US. They are very cold hardy and that is why they are used for hybrids to develop cold hardiness in vines. They aren't bothered as much by frosts and freezes. Those have really pushed quickly. The small things you see are embryonic flower clusters which will eventually become the clusters of grapes. Don't propagate them as they are very acidic. You can make wine from them but it isn't all that good.


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## TJsBasement (Mar 28, 2012)

Too late, I have at least try and get some roots, a partial dry run if you will. Not sure if it can be identified from this tiny leaf but Im looking now. The leafs are covered in a tiny cobweb lookin stuff and the stems have a pealing waxy something on um.


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## TJsBasement (Apr 1, 2012)

I found another book about growing grapes, it goes a bit deeper into the why not only what. It's "The Grape Grower" by Lon Rombough. I gave it a quick buzz over and just starting to really read it now. I punched his name in and loads of stuff come up so I figure he knows whats up. 

I got a few cuttings started, the concord must have gotten too warm in shipping or something because I got bud break on all 11 sticks but no callus, in the cool basement I have them in a heavy perlite topsoil mix in 4" x 12" pvc pipe and reptile heat wire wrapped all around the outside of the PVC. I have also started a bunch of the wild vine cuttings, maybe play around with grafting.


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## grapeman (Apr 1, 2012)

Good luck with them. Interesting method for heating them.

Lon had a lot of information and much of it is good for you. Unfortunately he passed away a few months ago. He will be missed in the vineyard community.


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## TJsBasement (Apr 1, 2012)

I looked for heating mats local but the only thing I could find was small ones at the hydro store for like 40 bucks a piece and I would need a bunch so the heat wire is working for the moment but needs replaced with something like you have. I didn't plan to start this yet but with the buds breaking and a few other types look to have some swelling going on I'm being forced to do it right now. The Catawba look like they are only a day or two from popping.


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## TJsBasement (Apr 8, 2012)

Yep I completely lost my mind, ordered 20 raspberry plants kiwi gold, cumberland black and latham red, 4 types of strawberry plants and I'm looking for something else, maybe some tall nut or fruit trees. 

My grape cuttings look to be doing great, the cold basement just about stopped the bud break and I pulled one out and it had about 1" of what I could only guess was root. Maybe another week and I'll start shining some led light on um, the raspberries love the LEDs, the first set of leaves that grew sense I received them are just about laying on the old ones.

Can you believe I cant find a small chipper anywhere local, had to order one for the skid steer.


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## grapeman (Apr 8, 2012)

I think you are just coming to your senses now ordering all those plants. With some property, you need to grow something on it- might as well be winemaking and piemaking supplies, right?


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## TJsBasement (Apr 8, 2012)

All this is going on at my house, right around 1 acre total with a large house on that one acre, jammin an crammin , the strawberries are going on a really hard to mow bank and I plan to put the raspberry in the not perfect sun spots. I ordered a couple books on sustainable food farming on very small plots and indoor/green house, so maybe they have some good tips about maximizing space. 

All of a sudden I feel a need to grow fruits and stuff not even for wine but just to do it. Must be all the beautiful stuff I see you guys growing.

Quick stop at Double A and I now also have Anne yellow raspberry and all 3 color currant on order. Of all these plant some have to grow right.


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## TJsBasement (Apr 15, 2012)

Every night that it drops close to 30 it makes me feel less like a dilutional freak and glad that I build a temporary indoor grow area. The strawberry really like not being froze and I may keep a few indoors just to force a bunch of runners for next year. The grape cutting are all starting their first leaf even all the wild ones, I made a couple wild cuttings that was getting close to an inch thick and they are budding also a tiny bud is just shoving out the side of the wood, I wasn't sure if the thick wood could produce but they sure look like it. 

This is one 135w 7 band LED from HTG supply and 3 14w panels from ebay. All the plant seam to like the LED light, is very early to tell but I am planning a few for long term indoor growing so time will tell. 

Anybody have any first hand with them indoor composters. I'm looking at the "Nature Mills" indoor, a bit pricey but if it really works it's well worth it. I can't really have an outdoor compost pile do to neighbors and too many neighborhood animals, and I'm not aloud to discharge firearms, stupid city rules.

Here is my hodge-podge grow area, no I am not an will not grow anything illegal, I would never risk my house and family, just not worth it.


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## TJsBasement (Apr 19, 2012)

My grapes are looking ok, most have at least one leaf, a couple wilted then came back, from what I gather from grapemans fine thread a few are out growing the roots development. I have way more plants then I have room to grow so I'll probly keep them better looking ones and donate the rest to friends. 
Some how starting with grapes has transitioned into me setting up a indoor hydro/aeroponics system to grow strawberries, not sure how but it happened. I have 3 types of red and 2 types of white strawberry, White Soul and White D. The White D/pineberry come from Burpee, good looking plants and they was potted and shipped really well. Im only a week in with the strawberries so time will tell. 
I got them currants from Double A and planted 17 last night, kinda making a hedge row with em. They shipped right on schedule.


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## TJsBasement (May 2, 2012)

Grapes are still growing, slow. I just dont have enough light shinning on them, making roots so I guess its all good and its getting real close to planting time. 






Some of the strawberries are flowering. I was going on limited information and running the light 18/6 and later found out that to long of photo period will force them to fruit. Should have been more like 12 on 12 off. And I was getting too much light in the tote and resulted in growing brown algae, an h2o2 root and equipment wash and newly built light proof lid has cleared that up, I hope. The aeroponics system is just a DIY "EZ Clone" setup, nice and cheap and they claim you can crank out clones, one video showed tomato clones from cut from mother plant to 1" roots in 6 days. I'll be testing the idea with grapes just to see. Hay is it true that black currants smell like cat piss and is it just black, should I just dig them up now before they get growing to good.


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## grapeman (May 2, 2012)

What procedure do you use for the hydrogen peroxide wash? What percent, amount used etc? I have some surface mold on my soil mix and would like to get rid of it. Would this work? Sorry for the questions, I have no hydroponic knowledge to speak of.


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## TJsBasement (May 2, 2012)

Im just mucking thru. But I used plant peroxide 29% some powerful stuff from a hydro shop it was like 11 bucks for 1 liter. Directions on the back say add 3ml to 4 liter of water then add to nutrient tank every 3-5 days. Very limited info on all this hydro stuff, but most of the stuff I'm reading they are not growing strawberry if you know what I mean. Yeah grapeman from my super limited knowledge I'd say some peroxide would fix any fungus or bacterial growth. They say you should reinoculate after a strong wash because it "kills" all the good stuff too. 

I have read that normal wally world peroxide has stabilizers in it, ingredients says "peroxide 3% (stabilized)". So I use plant peroxide for stuff the plants eat and house peroxide to wash all tools and equipment then wash off the house stuff with water.


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## TJsBasement (May 4, 2012)

Sumbitches are growing now, put em under a 300watt HPS and in 2 days I see loads more growth. Hey Mr. Grapeman do you have any special treatments to get them ready for transplant, like increase water or less or special fertilizer a few weeks before. And did you try the h2o2? Figure I'll have to do like a week of more sun everyday to get them used to the outside. A few strawberry that I just stuck out look a bit shocky over the past week. 

Looks like I get to eat a strawberry next week. I just tried my hand at pollinating strawberry, could be a day or two early.


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## grapeman (May 4, 2012)

I have not tried the h202 yet as it had eased up a lot. It seems to get worse on cloudy days- which we have a lot of lately. We are in for a few days of sun in a row so hopefully they get past it alright. I may treat a few flats anyways to see if it is effective.

I don't do a lot to prepare for planting. Just make sure they are growing well and have lots of roots and some good leaves. If anything right before planting say a week ahead of time, hold back the water some to stress them. That gets them hardened up some. Also take them outside under some prtection, say a sparse tree so it gets dappled sun. Then a couple days before setting out, put them in full sun.


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## tatud4life (May 10, 2012)

WOW!!! All your plants look great! I live in Northeast Tennessee Zone 6. I have 3 muscadine vines, 50 strawberries, 4 blackberries, 4 raspberries, and 4 apple trees. I have had pretty good success so far. We had a hard frost this year and it hit my grapes pretty hard. They have made a great come back though. For my grapes, the only things that I use is triple 10 fertilizer on the 1st of each month and calcium nitrate on the 15th of each month. I stop in july to keep any late growth from hurting the vines. I wish I had more yard though. I am running out of room and I want to get 50 more strawberriy plants and another grape vine this year. Good luck to you!!! I normally order my stuff from Isons out of Georgia.


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## TJsBasement (May 10, 2012)

Thanks tatud, wish I had more space at home too. It looks like I can do like 2 rows about 75-80 feet long without taking up ALL of the yard and still get a full day of sun. I'm really hoping to put strawberry plants as ground cover under my vines but thats all just planning so far so who knows. Now I need to figure out what types of grape I'll be keeping, whats best for area, space allotted, all that good stuff. I started a bunch of strawberry seeds and they are doing good too so thats a cheap option to get loads more berry plants.


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## TJsBasement (May 12, 2012)

Ok I need to plan my site. I swear someone posted a safe natural diy roundup but I didn't really read it at the time thinking I would find it later, well its later and I cant find it. If anyone has a lead on that thanks a bunch. You guys don't worry about anything you use to kill weeds hurting your vines? The ground is clayish fill with a nice bit of rocks/bricks with random piece of ???? mixed in so its going to be nice and fun digging cleaning and amending it, its city farming so I can only ask for so much ya know. I guess by the time I'm done digging I'll have no grass to worry about.


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## GreginND (May 13, 2012)

I'm not sure I would waste time trying "homemade" DIY roundup. Glyphosate is safe and very effective. You can save money buying an off brand concentrate. I have had good luck with TSC's big n tuff label. It's 41% glyphosate and contains surfactants that help it to penetrate the leaves. It's the least expensive that I have found. You need to be careful around your vines. Protect them from the spray. And do not pray on a windy day. I mix 3 oz per gallon and get good results.


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## TJsBasement (May 13, 2012)

It's still bare ground, could almost be called a yard if not for all the rocks and totally bare spots. I'm not against roundup or the likes but the hippie in me wants for kid/pet/enviro safe products around the house. One option I read was boiling water, not very effective to do long rows but very natural, gives me the idea to use a propane burn down torch to fry the grass. I know why bother just use the right stuff but it makes me feel better, like I been using dish liquid soap as a pesticide in my indoor garden, probably not as effective or long lasting as good pesticide but I already ingest the stuff now so I see no harm, and I used baby dish soap.


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## Corley5 (May 13, 2012)

I use a 20" Mankar ULV applicator around my vines. Gives me a 40" vegetation free strip with no over spray.


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## TJsBasement (May 14, 2012)

I did a little more digging, where I'll be putting the vines only has about 1-2 feet of fill clay then it's what I think is good dirt, blackish crumbly got that good dirt smell and doesn't seamed to be very compact. Would you guys strip the top 1 or 2 feet of clay then fill in or should I remove the rocks and mix it all up with the dirt under. As far as I can tell the black dirt goes deep, I had the 6' long auger all the way in. 

How wide of an area would you guys work, my lay out is,
property line
enough room to mow like 7 feet (52" z turn)
vine
10' open space
vine
yard 
Im thinking work 2 narrow bands around 4' right with the vine but I'm really not sure.


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## TJsBasement (Jun 23, 2012)

Very little progress as of late, mostly just keeping the ones in the basement watered until I get a chance to get them planted. Of the 120 or so dormant clippings that I started maybe 15 have started then died from lack of water and a few just never started at all. Not a bad outcome considering the real effort or lack of that I put in. 

The table grapes are looking ok, all have at least two stems coming out of the ground due to frost damage. I figure let em go this year then trim to just one trunk this winter or should I clip the smaller one now, I didn't know if it would try and grow back again this summer. 





And E.T.Bass posted his hillbilly irrigation system I believe he called it and that is working amazing as a temporary irrigation just until they get going. I think I can see new growth daily. 





Oh and one of my Lathem raspberries thats in a 6" pvc about 8" deep has already given me 2 nice berries not a lot but its only a 1 foot tall plant. A kiwi gold raspberry is getting closer to being ready, I like them plants that are pretty much weeds. 

Strawberry plants under a pine tree are also doing great. And most of the white strawberry seedlings are coming right along. Also got some pink flowered strawberry and giant hand sized strawberries seeds started.


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## bigdrums2 (Jun 23, 2012)

Good luck with the strawberry seedlings. Most of my seedlings are weaklings but then again I don't pinch the flower cluster off early on them. As far as your soil, is clay your top soil and then you have your black dirt?


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## tatud4life (Jun 23, 2012)

TJ, everything that I have read and heard says to prune back to 1 main trunk. Keep the side growth purned off until the trunk gets to the top wire. Once it gets to that point, purne back to the closest bud to the wire and that will cause it to split making your cordons that will run down the wire. While the cordons are growing, keep the side growth pruned off until they reach the end. Then let the side growth grow and keep the ends of the cordons pruned back. Good luck buddy!!


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## bigdrums2 (Jun 23, 2012)

All of that is correct, but let me suggest double trunks if you live in a high disease area. That way if you lose one it won't take three years to reestablish.


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## tatud4life (Jun 23, 2012)

Very good point!


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## TJsBasement (Jun 23, 2012)

Thanks bigdrums, I need all the luck I can get. I have some bare root strawberries that I planted earlier this year and I believe pinching the flowers is what is giving me the explosive growth that Im seeing, I have runners that are working on making a third plant from the original. When I miss plucking for a week or two growth slows down, at least I think I can see it. My soil yes it's clay on top with normal black dirt under, its what was removed from the hill to level out the area for building the house then spread over the existing top soil.I figure grapes are deep rooted and I'll be digging the holes with an agar so I can break it all the way down. Any strawberry seeds that I started where germinated in Jiffy soilless seed mix and under a CFL grow light in my basement so temps where kinda steady, its gets hot but a very buffered effect due to being half underground from removed dirt mentioned above.

tatud4life, thanks for the info but I'm just kinda playing around no real goal to speak of, some of this I'm doing just to see what happens. Maybe I'll clip a couple and leave a couple. One of the reasons I'm hesitant to clip them off is that I just cut down a few wild grapes and cutting them has turned the remaining stump into a shoot makes factory, they are literarily are filling the whole area above them with fresh shoots, I worry my table grapes would try to do something similar and just keep trying to replace what I cut off instead of growing roots like it should. I'm ok with being totally wrong too, happens all the time.

bigdrums I kinda planted them too close so I think double trunks is out.

Oh yeah other big news, for me at it is, we are buying the 2 lots a crossed the street, a 60' x 100' square, and that connects to 2 more lots that I own now then a lot owned by someone else that I use now for parking then 3 more lots that we own, gotta clear out a old junk trailer out then I have a growing space right at my house of 120'x100' plus, yippy. We'll be putting in a green house too. I'm all excited.


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## grapeman (Jun 23, 2012)

Since you have growth coming from the ground after a freeze, let it all grow or it will indeed become overly vigorous trying to make up for lost time. That will help with winter hardiness which you need in PA. If you trim off all the sideshoots, that is alright as it will help get it longer faster, howver don't take off the lateral shoots from the cordons. You want those for future spurs. If you trim them all off, you will get some blind nodes and then improper spur placement later.


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## TJsBasement (Jun 23, 2012)

After thought or something I remembered late, of them dormant clippings I had 11 Concord and only one starter got green growth and I let it get too dry so it probly lost. I remember someone else posting having problems with concord starting, are they known for being that hard to start.


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## tatud4life (Jun 23, 2012)

I don't know. My neighbor transplanted 6 Concords from Mass. a couple of years ago. He didn't seem to have a problem getting them started. He is having a time with them this year though. He cut them back to a stump last year when they went dormant. They are growing, but he does not have a single grape on them. I think he almost killed them by cutting them back so much.


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## TJsBasement (Jun 27, 2012)

We added a new "water" feature today, it shoots beautiful pink foam in the air and the only thing you can do is laugh until it stops.


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## TJsBasement (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm finally getting some growth from them table grapes, I hadn't realized how much of the plant was hanging but it's clear after I added a stick to start training them to go vertical, I put that stick in last night and this morning the plant has already wrapped a thing around the stick and has a good hold on it. I just used some sticks I got from cutting down the bushes but where do you guys find the bamboo shoots to use for first year until the permanent trellis is in, I looked at lowes homedepot and Walmart, are they a greenhouse supply item?





See the holes in the lower leaves, ya I had someone mow and I'm all but 100% sure that the holes were caused by the mower blowing straw bits thru the leaves. They all happened the exact same day the yard got mowed and I had to remove mower clippings from around all the plants.


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## tatud4life (Jul 4, 2012)

Looks good!! I just used the bamboo shoots that Ison's sent with the vines I ordered. You can also use the plastic coated metal rods from Lowes. They are in the outdoor side of Lowes. I can't remember what they are actually, but I know they are used for staking veggies.


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## TJsBasement (Jul 4, 2012)

Ask and you shall receive. 



And ya know that saying about teach a man to fish. 




Thats 3 types of bamboo, well I'm calling it bamboo. For some reason I'm going to try and propagate some. I just think bamboo could be ultra useful if/when you have to find your own building supplies, I know you doomsdayers feel me on that one.


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## tatud4life (Jul 4, 2012)

Bamboo can be very useful. The only problem is that if you get tired of and try to get rid of it it is almost impossible. Better make sure that you get all the roots out.


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## TJsBasement (Jul 4, 2012)

This property will be completely trashed with perennials when I'm done. Thanks for the tip tatud, FiL hacks them down every year and they explode back and he said they try and spread like fire too, I'll have to blacktop this place to kill off all the weeds I'm planting.


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## tatud4life (Jul 4, 2012)

A friend of mine tried to dig his up. He thought he got it all, but they have made a come back on him. You're welcome. I don't know much, but I try to help where I can.


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## Boatboy24 (Jul 5, 2012)

Plant it in pots, then bury the pots, leaving 4-6 inches sticking out above the ground. I've read that this can contain the bamboo. Not sure I buy it; but it was on the internet, so it must be true, right?


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## TJsBasement (Jul 5, 2012)

I believe one of the 3 of these is called Giant Cane and is not a bamboo at all but does grows and spreads the same, looks a lot like corn. So now I'm attempting to identify the other 2. 

I cut all 3 green stalks into 2 node piece and put them in a bucket full of water, filled the top open node with water and gave the leaves a good misting, they looked better after just a couple hours.


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