# Vinmetrica SC-100 vs SC-300



## Ajmassa (Jan 3, 2018)

Accurately testing S02 = big winemaking advantage. It seems like the only legit tool for this is the VinMetrica. And every owner seems to speak highly of it. I’m sold on the so2 vinmetrica. 
What I can’t figure out is what makes it so special for pH and TA. It seems no different than any other pH meter—still using the same method to figure TA (before researching I thought this thing had a unique probe and meter that actually spit out a TA # for you)
1. So Is it just the convenience of So2 and pH one tool? Or is the ph probe a higher quality grade when compared to meter/probes at ~$200? (The $ difference from sc-100 to sc-300)
2. Also, is a beep at 8.2ph the only thing deeming it a ‘TA analyzer’? If so isn’t that kind of a stretch? Some NaOH can turn any meter into a “TA analyzer”. 
The big accessory kit I admit looks badass-the stand, stirrer, burette and probe holders.- and able to be used with any probe. 
So what’s the better option? The sc-100 and a separate benchtop meter or the sc-300?
The meter itself just seems a little antiquated to me, and I get the feeling $200 can get you a higher quality more modern ph tool.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 3, 2018)

I have the 100. Bought it used for a good deal and never looked back. I also have a pH meter that I trust. So, while I think it'd be great to have the 300, I don't really feel like I'm missing out on anything. Mine came with the stand, magnetic stirrer, burette, etc. and I think those are totally worth it. I'm sure there is some price that could be put on the convenience of a single tool, but unless you don't already have a pH meter, I'm not sure the price of the 300 is worth it.


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## Johnd (Jan 3, 2018)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> Accurately testing S02 = big winemaking advantage. It seems like the only legit tool for this is the VinMetrica. And every owner seems to speak highly of it. I’m sold on the so2 vinmetrica.
> What I can’t figure out is what makes it so special for pH and TA. It seems no different than any other pH meter—still using the same method to figure TA (before researching I thought this thing had a unique probe and meter that actually spit out a TA # for you)
> 1. So Is it just the convenience of So2 and pH one tool? Or is the ph probe a higher quality grade when compared to meter/probes at ~$200? (The $ difference from sc-100 to sc-300)
> 2. Also, is a beep at 8.2ph the only thing deeming it a ‘TA analyzer’? If so isn’t that kind of a stretch? Some NaOH can turn any meter into a “TA analyzer”.
> ...



Personally, I have the pro kit with the bells and whistles and love it. When doing TA, the stand holds the pH probe while the stirrer keeps it mixed, the beep is immaterial. I’m not good enough to hold the probe, stir, and add NsOH while watching the meter. The calibrated burettes are made just for the purpose. I feel like my accuracy with the system is enhanced, and that’s important to me and the winemaking decisions I render based on the results. 
After seeing the challenges some folks have with trying to store their meters in storage solution, I appreciate mine even more. 

Biased? Probably....but that’s my opinion....it’s made for winemakers and does everything I need. Can you put together a combo to do the same thing? I’m certain that you can. I was lucky, my first purchase was the 300 Pro kit and it’s worked flawlessly for years.


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## Ajmassa (Jan 3, 2018)

Some really great feedback. Already helpful. 
Like I said, I’m already sold on the sc100 and accessory kit. After watching a few videos it looked like a no brainer and would make life so much easier. And both of you confirm what I thought about the accessories- they are badass! Lol. 
But my ph situation needs improving. I like my meter, but it was a rushed purchase only reading one decimal point. The Ph-55. So I’m upgrading one way or the other. 
With so many new fancy meters on the market (wireless with a phone app I even saw) I thought there may have been strong opinions about ph function of the VM in comparison. 
The ph meter getting the seal of approval from Mr. Ph is a back cover kind of endorsement!


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 4, 2018)

If you're in the market for a pH meter as well, I'd strongly consider the 300. Although I've heard pretty positive things about the pH-55.


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## Ajmassa (Jan 4, 2018)

The ph-55 has been solid for me. The one decimal point gets the job done. But when doing some acid work 2 decimals will be much more ideal. 
The other thing is with the probes. I know they don’t last forever and I’m not sure how easily replaceable the probe in my current meter is. 
I’ll be building myself a new wine room very soon and was planning to upgrade to a benchtop meter like the MW – 102. Rather than play games and mix-and-match for the best value it looks like I can’t go wrong with the SC – 300


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## mainshipfred (Jan 4, 2018)

As far as ph goes I have a cheap digital probe and occasionally compare it to the 300 and they are for the most part close. The reason I got the 300 was I have a really hard time knowing when the color stops changing using less expensive titration kits. The 10 ml burette measures in .05 ml and very accurate. If i'm using mine correctly the beeps you are referring to may go off but depending on how slowly you add the reagent makes a difference. If you add it too fast you will get the initial beeps but if you let the stirrer do it's thing the readings will go back down. then you just add drop by drop until you get the proper reading. Oh and not mention the Pro set up is BAD ASS. I think I'll buy a white lab coat for when I use it.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 4, 2018)

Forgot to mention they do sell reconditioned meters and they are about $100.00 less. You just have to wait until they have one. That's what I did.


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## VillaVino (Nov 10, 2018)

Just started using the 200. I like it. The 300 would just tie it all together. Good luck.


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## pgentile (Jan 5, 2019)

Reading through the 300's manual for the second time. Trying to get my head around everything before I plunge. I have both a 25ml and 10ml burett. Stand also. But don't have a magnetic stirrer yet. I'm seeing them range from $29 to 200. Any reason not to get the cheap one? Is everyone with a Vinmetrica using a magnetic stirrer?

Should I bother with sodium hydroxide solution for total SO2?


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## mainshipfred (Jan 5, 2019)

pgentile said:


> Reading through the 300's manual for the second time. Trying to get my head around everything before I plunge. I have both a 25ml and 10ml burett. Stand also. But don't have a magnetic stirrer yet. I'm seeing them range from $29 to 200. Any reason not to get the cheap one? Is everyone with a Vinmetrica using a magnetic stirrer?
> 
> Should I bother with sodium hydroxide solution for total SO2?



I haven't done the total So2 yet but just from laziness. I think the magnetis stirrer is a must. I don't have the 25 ml burette so I don't know how it's calibrated. I use the 10 because it's easy to read to .05. The vail from Vinmetrica is nice because it has 5-25ml calibrations. so any stirrer that works with that is fine.


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## VillaVino (Jan 7, 2019)

pgentile said:


> Reading through the 300's manual for the second time. Trying to get my head around everything before I plunge. I have both a 25ml and 10ml burett. Stand also. But don't have a magnetic stirrer yet. I'm seeing them range from $29 to 200. Any reason not to get the cheap one? Is everyone with a Vinmetrica using a magnetic stirrer?
> 
> Should I bother with sodium hydroxide solution for total SO2?


I got the cheapest magnetic stirrer. It works fine but you get a 20ml+ plastic “beaker” that fits into the plastic molding of the stirrer. You can’t put a larger beaker on it because it will not sit flat on the surface. Wasn’t like the ones I had back in the chem lab days.


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## Johnd (Jan 7, 2019)

VillaVino said:


> I got the cheapest magnetic stirrer. It works fine but you get a 20ml+ plastic “beaker” that fits into the plastic molding of the stirrer. You can’t put a larger beaker on it because it will not sit flat on the surface. Wasn’t like the ones I had back in the chem lab days.



I have the magnetic stirrer that came with the SC 300 Pro kit and absolutely love it. Keeping things stirred during a titration with it frees up one hand to perform other operations. The one I got also works great with the plastic measuring cup I keep in the lab area of the wine room, frequently use it when topping up barrels. Just put the powdered meta into the cup, add some wine, drop the bean in and turn on the stirrer, it mixes completely while I clean up the last barrel and is ready to get dumped into the next. I also use it when mixing up my MLF cocktail to apply to fermenting wine, works like a charm there too. Highly recommend a magnetic stirrer.


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## pgentile (Jan 11, 2019)

Going to use this tomorrow for the first time. Feeling like I'm 8 again with my first chemistry kit. A little intimidated as well. Think I got everything I need. Have a few various size beakers as well, not in photo.


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 11, 2019)

That stirrer is hard core!!!


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## mainshipfred (Jan 11, 2019)

I played with my DO analyzer today on a 50/50 Zin/Syrah blend. It's something I wasn't crazy about but @Boatboy24 Jim recommended I give it some oak. Anyway it was one of my earlier wines that I was afaid I racked and splashed racked too may times. The starting DO reading was 17%. Did a quick sparging with argon and brought it down to 13%. Never timed it but sparged again for ~15 minutes and now it's at 2.4%. Once the oak cubes do their job it will be time to bottle whether it's good or bad. The Syrah is spring 2017 and Zin is fall 2017. Also really enjoying the argon set up.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 11, 2019)

pgentile said:


> Going to use this tomorrow for the first time. Feeling like I'm 8 again with my first chemistry kit. A little intimidated as well. Think I got everything I need. Have a few various size beakers as well, not in photo.
> 
> View attachment 52856



Have fun with it.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 11, 2019)

Boatboy24 said:


> That stirrer is hard core!!!



You mean, a teflon/plastic coating, over an iron-bar interior?


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## stickman (Jan 12, 2019)

@mainshipfred is that DO reading in percent saturation where O2 saturation in wine is around 8ppm?


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## mainshipfred (Jan 12, 2019)

stickman said:


> @mainshipfred is that DO reading in percent saturation where O2 saturation in wine is around 8ppm?



In the end the calculations are * 100. So I assume it's percent but I'll have to check


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## mainshipfred (Jan 13, 2019)

stickman said:


> @mainshipfred is that DO reading in percent saturation where O2 saturation in wine is around 8ppm?



Below is the formula so it is % saturation. 

DO, % saturation = 100 * [Wine sample – 0%DO]/[100%DO - 0%DO]


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## mainshipfred (Jan 13, 2019)

pgentile said:


> Going to use this tomorrow for the first time. Feeling like I'm 8 again with my first chemistry kit. A little intimidated as well. Think I got everything I need. Have a few various size beakers as well, not in photo.
> 
> View attachment 52856



Well how did it go? I can't imagine you used the 1000 ml flask.


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## pgentile (Jan 13, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> Well how did it go? I can't imagine you used the 1000 ml flask.



The weekend was filled too much had to push back my plan, going to shoot for tomorrow.


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## pgentile (Jan 14, 2019)

Calibrated the SC-300 for pH and then tested pH on 3 wines. zin 3.49, carmenere/malbec 3.75 and Pinotage 4.09.

It calibrated pretty much on the money. TA and SO tomorrow. Small steps.


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## VillaVino (Jan 29, 2019)

pgentile said:


> Going to use this tomorrow for the first time. Feeling like I'm 8 again with my first chemistry kit. A little intimidated as well. Think I got everything I need. Have a few various size beakers as well, not in photo.
> 
> View attachment 52856


Now that is what a magnetic stirrer should look like. Very nice.


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## Rice_Guy (Jan 30, 2019)

mainshipfred said:


> I haven't done the total So2 yet but just from laziness. I think the magnetis stirrer is a must. I don't have the 25 ml burette so I don't know how it's calibrated. I use the 10 because it's easy to read to .05. The vail from Vinmetrica is nice because it has 5-25ml calibrations. so any stirrer that works with that is fine.


Magnetic: Much of the magic of the vinmetrica is the beep which lets one mix and not watch the meter. In chem lab they trained us to manipulate without using the magnetic stirrer so it isn't hard for me.
Burette: My preference in running samples is to weigh the juice using a two place accuracy balance. The original decision was if I am running 10 samples it is easier to use 10 plastic disposable droppers than to clean out the 1 syringe they provide. , , , A side benefit is that I can weigh the finished beaker with titrant,, again to 0.01 gm accuracy.
The vinmetrica is a sweet toy and a lot easier/ faster than the wet chemistry method. The SO2 function is measuring _nanoamps. _I do not know of another inexpensive tool which can do this.

I have had access to a variety of pH meters since the 70s. The cheap ones work as well as the lab grade and I didn't feel bad if a technician killed a probe by running a viscous goop or grinding it into glass shards. For home use I have an extech, the decision point on it was the glass pH probe is flat so I can get a reading with a few drops of juice/ wine. Any pH meter can give the TA end point (8.2/ where phenolthalein changes color). YES the beep is the only thing special about the TA function.

DO: I have had access to lab grade dissolved oxygen BUT NOT the vinmetrica DO. It was a pain to calibrate DO with deoxigenated water and maintain the membrane on the lab grade probe. If I was commercial with 10,000 gallon tanks of wine I would want to know the number (related shelf life), , , , but I work with carboys so my technique "error" from splashing versus submerging a racking cane versus transferring under vacuum seems greater than the value of the number.


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## Rice_Guy (Jan 31, 2019)

The major problem I have seen on the Vinmetrica SC100 is that the SO2 probe did not connect consistently. It has a stereo speaker plug (RCA jack) which I would expect better from. I wonder if gold plated would fix it?

All in all the Vinmetrica testing is easy. Don't be afraid. You will probably spend more time cleaning when finished than running tests. Do you have distilled water? A wash bottle helps.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 31, 2019)

Rice_Guy said:


> The major problem I have seen on the Vinmetrica SC100 is that the SO2 probe did not connect consistently. It has a stereo speaker plug (RCA jack) which I would expect better from. I wonder if gold plated would fix it?



I don't have one, so not speaking from experience. But the photo on their website shows a BNC connector. Is this not actually true?

As far as I am concerned, BNC is the gold standard for connectors.


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## mainshipfred (Jan 31, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> I don't have one, so not speaking from experience. But the photo on their website shows a BNC connector. Is this not actually true?
> 
> As far as I am concerned, BNC is the gold standard for connectors.



I believe that is the connection used on both the 100 and 300.


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## Ajmassa (Jan 31, 2019)

I know My gold plated Monster guitar cables are the gold standard for guitar cables. So maybe a gold plated BNC connector would be the holy grail of connectors!


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## Ajmassa (Jan 31, 2019)

Glad this thread was picked back up. I still have not gotten a Vinmetrica, and this has all been extremely informative.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 31, 2019)

Ajmassa5983 said:


> I know My gold plated Monster guitar cables are the gold standard for guitar cables. So maybe a gold plated BNC connector would be the holy grail of connectors!



Gold-plating the contacts of BNC connectors is pretty standard. 

https://www.alliedelec.com/coaxial-...category=3|2510411/1643199/2314305&n11932=BNC


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## Ajmassa (Jan 31, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> Gold-plating the contacts of BNC connectors is pretty standard.
> 
> https://www.alliedelec.com/coaxial-...category=3|2510411/1643199/2314305&n11932=BNC



You’ve done it! You’ve found the holy grail!


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## Ajmassa (Jan 31, 2019)

Another thing I look forward to with the SC 300 is the ability to test for YAN levels. I’m actually surprised I have yet to hear about anyone utilizing this aspect since it’s so cheap. 
If I’m dropping a nut on the sc300 pro with all the bells and whistles then it’s an easy decision to also tack on the YAN kit for just another $30. Then no more one-size-fits-all nutrient additions! 
I already do a Post crush test panel 
temp, Ph, TA, °Brix, and so2 (titrets), so what’s one more test?
Over the top? Maybe. But YAN and more precise so2/TA will give me a lot more confidence in my winemaking decisions.


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## Rice_Guy (Jan 31, 2019)

sour_grapes said:


> I don't have one, so not speaking from experience. But the photo on their website shows a BNC connector. Is this not actually true?
> 
> As far as I am concerned, BNC is the gold standard for connectors.


They had a problem with folks putting the wrong probe on the connector in the early model. A few years back they switched to 2 different connectors so it would be child prufed . This is the pH probe. The SO2 probe has 2 wires like an ORP probe.


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## sour_grapes (Jan 31, 2019)

Rice_Guy said:


> They had a problem with folks putting the wrong probe on the connector in the early model. A few years back they switched to 2 different connectors so it would be child prufed . This is the pH probe. The SO2 probe has 2 wires like an ORP probe.



Ahh, I see. That makes sense.


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## BI81 (Dec 26, 2019)

@mainshipfred do you mind sharing some photos or details of your argon set up?


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## BI81 (Dec 26, 2019)

Does anyone have experience with the SC-55 MLF Analyzer?

I'm pulling the trigger today on the SC-300 Pro, based on all of the positive reviews here and am contemplating whether or not to get the MLF analyzer as well...


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## mainshipfred (Dec 26, 2019)

BI81 said:


> @mainshipfred do you mind sharing some photos or details of your argon set up?



Sure, will get them to you tomorrow.


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## Timothy j Caron (Mar 5, 2020)

mainshipfred said:


> Forgot to mention they do sell reconditioned meters and they are about $100.00 less. You just have to wait until they have one. That's what I did.


Where did you get the reconditioned tester


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## mainshipfred (Mar 5, 2020)

Timothy j Caron said:


> Where did you get the reconditioned tester



Just contacted Vinmetrica, had to be put on a waiting list. Luckily I only had to wait a month or so.


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## Ajmassa (Mar 5, 2020)

Timothy j Caron said:


> Where did you get the reconditioned tester



I put myself on that list as well in early 2018. Never got any callbacks. I actually bought my Vinmetrica from a member here on the forum who posted an ad. Caught a great deal for the sc-300 pro kit. 

Not sure if you read this entire thread or not, but there’s a lot of useful info in it and it’s basically discussing your exact situation you posted about yesterday.


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## Rice_Guy (Mar 6, 2020)

After half a year I bought one on a webstore sale. Vinmetrica didn’t ever get back.


Timothy j Caron said:


> Where did you get the reconditioned tester


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## mainshipfred (Mar 6, 2020)

Sounds like I was the only one that had any luck.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 6, 2020)

I have an SC-100 I need to get on the market, if anyone is interested.


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