# Apple Cider - Yeast vs Wild Fermentation?



## portveyn (May 22, 2012)

Hi everyone. The name is Alex and this is my first post. 

I have made cider only twice, both times using Red Star Champagne yeast and fermenting it up to 12.5% alc. As a source I took apple juice consentrate. I'm wondering if someone has an experience fermenting cider without cultured yeast addition? How did it work and how much sugar fermented? Did you add SO2 at all?

Thank you.


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## Wade E (May 22, 2012)

Its going to be gard to.do unless you press the apples yourself as pretty much all appld juice is either pasteurized or run through ultraviolet lighting to kill wild organisms. If you are looking for 12.5% likd stated then Id stay with wine yeadt, if looking for a lower hard cider then beer yeast is a better alternative.


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## jswordy (May 22, 2012)

Got the following recipe from a guy. He makes this repeatedly, and others who have done it raved. Haven't made it, but saved it. Not exactly wild yeast, but close...it might help you devise your wild yeast recipe. Shows how bare-bones you can get!


1 gal apple cider (usually indian summer brand from kroger. it is important that it has NO other ingredients but apple cider or juice) 

fleischmanns bread yeast (can result in off flavors but they mellow out in secondary and after bottling) 

2.5lb honey 

balloon 

I pour a few cups of juice out, and about 2 more cups into a pan. heat the juice and add the honey slowly. let it dissolve. 

once this mixture cools, i add to the jug with the remaining juice. leave a little headspace. let this cool completely then pitch 1/3 to 1/2 of a packet of yeast into the jug. shake it a little. remove cap and put balloon on top. cut a little hole in the balloon to let co2 escape. 

Wait 10 days or so for primary ferm. Rack into a gallon jug for secondary. 

At this point I taste it to see if it needs more fermentation or if I'm at a good level of sweetness. (i like it sweet and strong). if it's good then I put it in the fridge. This flocculates the majority of the yeast. After sitting in the fridge for a while (i'm in no hurry at this point), I bottle it into 1 quart swing tops that I bought at ross. 

It's good and fun. More accessible than beer. If there was a homebrew store around here I'd prob be making beer, but when I feel like brewing I can go to kroger and get cider ingredients.


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## portveyn (May 22, 2012)

Thank you for sharing your experience!

But do you think one can make a good, stable apple cider without any yeast (and yeast nutrients) addition?
It doesn't matter what alcohol content it would be, 6 or 14%, I am just curious if a wild yeast from air 
can manage to ferment apple juice to make a drinkable cider.

Another words, if I'll leave quality (fresh & healthy), natural (not preserved) apple juice on the table as is, 
what's the chance it will make a good wine?


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## TJsBasement (May 22, 2012)

Would adding some fresh apples help with beneficial yeast or would it still just be a crapshoot. 

I don't mean to go off the tracks from your original post but jswordy will you really be using a ballon when you make that recipe or is that just the intended method.


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## Arne (May 23, 2012)

TJsBasement said:


> Would adding some fresh apples help with beneficial yeast or would it still just be a crapshoot.
> 
> I don't mean to go off the tracks from your original post but jswordy will you really be using a ballon when you make that recipe or is that just the intended method.


 
Instead of the balloon you can use an airlock. The balloon is just an improvised airlock. With these old recipes, most people knew what a aballoon was, but they wouldn't have had a clue what an air lock was. Arne.


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## rjb222 (May 23, 2012)

Yeast is yeast. there is absolutely no difference between packaged yeast and air borne yeast. You just know packaged yeast is a certain variety and the profile you will have in your ferment. With air borne yeast you do not know which strain inoculates your must. Not adding yeast nutrients is just asking a wild inoculation to hang. Lots of fruit has sugar but many lack proper acid balance for proper fermentation to happen. The movement to go back to all natural is a step back wards in the making of good wine as far as I think. A wine that is made this way always die off quickly after bottling if they do not fail during production due to bacterial infection. Just my thoughts.


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## jswordy (May 23, 2012)

When you use a packaged yeast - any packaged yeast including bread yeast - you are ensuring that certain predictable characteristics will be forthcoming from the purer strain of yeast in the package.

It is entirely possible to ferment anything naturally, and it's kind of a fun goal to try out for something different. As a speculative exercise here, if I were doing that with apples, I would run the fruit through a food processor so it is coarsely ground. I would add a measure of lemon juice or citric acid in the processor to keep it from being too quickly oxidized. Don't go too heavy there, because it could hold back weaker natural yeasts. That step would allow more of the fruit to be opened up to colonization. I would add some water and sugar to make a thin applesauce-like must.

Then I'd put it in a bucket with a towel over the top and wait to see what happens. After fermentation slows off, I would press out the juice and take it to secondary under airlock or a balloon or a condom or a rubber glove finger. Pick one.

I would probably want some juice to f-pac and I would want to backsweeten. Adding cinnamon might be nice, too, either as a powder or a stick. 

You could roughly follow the guy's recipe I posted, but do the "applesauce" rather than juice, and let it ferment on its own.


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## portveyn (May 23, 2012)

rjb222 said:


> The movement to go back to all natural is a step back wards in the making of good wine as far as I think. A wine that is made this way always die off quickly after bottling if they do not fail during production due to bacterial infection. Just my thoughts.



Thank you for your opinion. I agree: where is no need to regress. Cultured yeast is pretty inexpensive. The same with nutrients, tartaric acis, etc. I assume not too many home winemakers count on spontaneous frementation.


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## portveyn (May 23, 2012)

jswordy said:


> I would add a measure of lemon juice or citric acid in the processor to keep it from being too quickly oxidized. Don't go too heavy there, because it could hold back weaker natural yeasts.



I see it's not that easy to maintain a healthy wild frementation.
To be honest I wouldn't go that far. Thanks for your help, I will
keep it cultured and progressive :]


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## portveyn (May 23, 2012)

And I have airlocks. No need for balloons :]


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