# The Bread Thread



## Boatboy24

Since so many of us are discovering the joys of making bread and/or going further down the bread rabbit hole than before, I thought I might create a thread for breads, pizza doughs and other fermented baked goods. 

Today is day 5 of my Levain and I did the usual feeding/discard this morning. From the discard, I kept about 100g, and added 75g of whole wheat flour and 175g of AP flour to make a small test loaf. Also added a pinch of yeast and about 1/4tsp of salt. About 90 minutes after mixing, I gave it a fold and put it back in its covered container. It's fermenting nicely and in about an hour, I'll shape it and get it into the proofing basket. After about an hour proof, I'll bake. 

The Levain itself really turned a corner overnight and is becoming more solid (appears to be 'mature'). On reaching in and grabbing a handful, you can see and feel the weblike structure it has created. Tomorrow, I'll feed and create the first 'official' loaf from it, which will be shaped, rise, and then proof overnight in the fridge for baking Tuesday morning. 

For reference, most of what I'm doing is either directly out of, or based on "Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast" by Ken Forkish. I'm also picking the brain of @ceeaton a fair amount - particularly regarding how to make various things from the daily Levain discard, including bread and pretzels. 

Post up your bread, pizza, pretzels, etc here.


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## ceeaton

I made a beautifully balanced discus out of a discard bread yesterday. Let it proof too long and forgot it was in the oven. On the bright side the interior had a wonderful sourdough flavor. My starter is about 15 days old now, about to take part of it and move it to the fridge (only have to feed about once a week in there, but need to pull it two days or more in advance to feed and make a regular loaf). The discard I'll make an official bread after feeding it again. Have a few too many mason jars hanging out on the kitchen counters, did give one to my SIL, so down to two.

I credit NM Mike (ibglowin) for getting me interested in sourdough again. Plus I wanted to experiment on the KettlePizza as it cooled down, stays pretty warm for a while after the pizzas are done. Used to have a two year old starter I kept in the fridge, the flavor on that one was to die for, but alas I forgot about it for too long and it turned gray on me.

Made a discard sourdough pizza dough. Warming up now from the fridge and will use it to make my pizza tonight. Making one GF for my son, two for two different neighbors, one for the "girls" and one or maybe two smaller ones for me. Couldn't have picked a better day to cook on the KettlePizza, might just move it into the sun, won't need very much fuel it's so darn hot here today. Hopefully I won't make any more discuses (if that is a word).

Edit: I stand corrected, it's also disci.


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## Boatboy24

Now you're scaring me, Craig. I was going to do a quick, same day pizza dough for dinner, but 'enhance' it with a little Levain to up the flavor a bit. I'll post results later.


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## ceeaton

That works great since the levain isn't the only leavaning agent in your dough! I think I didn't get my starter ramped up enough before grabbing the part I made into bread yesterday sans yeast.


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## Boatboy24

My discard bread stuck to the proofing basket a bit. Gonna have a bit of an odd-shaped loaf. Pics at 11...


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## sour_grapes

Boatboy24 said:


> Since so many of us are discovering the joys of making bread and/or going further down the bread rabbit hole than before, I thought I might create a thread for breads, pizza doughs and other fermented baked goods.
> 
> ...
> 
> Post up your bread, pizza, pretzels, etc here.



I love it. I will not contribute for a few days, as I bought a wonderful baguette today. We have an authentic boulangerie in my neighborhood (run by an actual Frenchy!). My neighbor contends (and I agree but it was his thought) that the only time he had a better baguette was in Paris, and the only time he had a better beignet was in NoLa.

Anyway, I'm in on the thread when I get back to my own baking.

NOT MY BREAD:


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## ceeaton

The highlight of my cook was pushing the third pizza into the fire, argh. I will say the sourdough pizza dough I flavored with some discard was pretty darn good. I guess I could collect the discard and add a bit to each dough when I normally make them on Thursday night for a Friday cooking session. I did add about 1/2 tsp of instant yeast, a little less than I'd normally add for a pizza dough (I make smaller crusts, 2 cups flour max) and didn't get a yeasty burn taste at all. Will work to perfect that recipe.


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## Boatboy24

sour_grapes said:


> I love it. I will not contribute for a few days, as I bought a wonderful baguette today. We have an authentic boulangerie in my neighborhood (run by an actual Frenchy!). My neighbor contends (and I agree but it was his thought) that the only time he had a better baguette was in Paris, and the only time he had a better beignet was in NoLa.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in on the thread when I get back to my own baking.
> 
> NOT MY BREAD:
> View attachment 63204




If I could buy bread like that easily and for a reasonable cost, I probably wouldn't bake at all. That looks fantastic. Lot's of good bakeries around here that are happy to charge an arm and a leg for a loaf of bread.


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## Boatboy24

A successful evening on the pizza (and even bread) front. I took the dough recipe linked below and slightly modified. I used 80% AP flour and 20% Caputo 00. And instead of a full 8g of yeast, I added 6, plus 50g of the Levain I started 5 days ago. I've done the recipe as prescribed twice - once with an additional 3 days in the fridge and once making pizza with it an hour after mixing. The 3 day version was pretty good, but the 'do it now' version lacked any flavor or complexity. My experiment tonight worked very well and although I had a dough that was a little on the sticky side after rising, it turned out 3 good pizzas. Storms forced me to do what I had already been thinking about - cook in the oven instead of on the KettlePizza. 550F, preheating for about an hour and 15 minutes before the first pie. Once the first one came out, I began working the dough and assembling the second - this allowed a 5-7 minute reheat for the stone while I got everything together. Each pizza was in for about 7-8 minutes. Crust was crisp on the outside, but had a nice chew - not quite NY style, but pretty close. When all was said and done, 1 cheese pizza and two pepperoni and sausage.













On the bread front, another experiment. 100g of the discarded Levain, 75g of whole wheat flour and 175g of AP flour. Added warm water and a pinch of yeast and let it go for about 6 hours. I did one fold after an hour+. It fermented very well, but I let it proof for a tad too long. Not a total collapse, but it could have been better. I was a little shy on the salt, but dipping in EVOO and Parmesan fixed that pretty quickly.










Finally, here's the dough and sauce recipe I've been using as a base for pizza. As mentioned above, I've made changes to the dough. The sauce is outstanding as is, but I usually end up adding a little of the liquid back in, and a half to 3/4 teaspoon of red wine vinegar to brighten it up.

Enjoy!









Pizza Dough Master Recipe


Cooks everywhere agree: this is the best pizza dough recipe! It's a trusted resource for how to make pizza dough with the perfect chewy texture—every time.




www.acouplecooks.com













San Marzano Tomato Pizza Sauce Recipe | The Home Pizzeria


San Marzano tomatoes are an Italian heirloom variety of plum tomatoes. Compared to roma tomatoes San Marzano have fewer seeds, more meaty texture, and thinner shape; often with a point at the bottom. Flavor wise they are also sweeter and




www.thehomepizzeria.com


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## 1d10t

Probably no coincidence that in ancient Egypt the brewery and the bakery were in the same building. Next time I brew beer I'm thinking of taking my liquid from the active ferment and making my bread with that.


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## Boatboy24

1d10t said:


> Probably no coincidence that in ancient Egypt the brewery and the bakery were in the same building. Next time I brew beer I'm thinking of taking my liquid from the active ferment and making my bread with that.



There are all sorts of great things that can be done with the spent grains and liquids from beer. Been a long time since I've brewed anything, but spent grain bread is to die for!


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## Eric Huser

This is a great thread. I'm have been infatuated with bread making, but my big accomplishment is a great Sour Dough. I made my own starter just put 1/2 cup AP flour a 1/8th cup whole wheat and 1/2 cup distilled water in a quart jar. Put a coffee filter on top. Every 3 to 5 days I feed the little bugger by adding another 1/2 cup AP and 1/2 cup water. Then just add it in to my bread recipes, sooooo good. I have some slow rolling the fridge and some frozen.



I recently just made a basic pale ale wort and fermented it with the same starter. TBD. Fermented out kind of as a Kettle Sour, but I haven't carbed it yet. I may use it on an apple wine to get the sour action and then dry it out with 1118. Next...


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## Eric Huser

That's just a dude I followed in the beginning. Not me


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## Yooper🍷

Been making Sourdough Dough bread for Three years now. Using a starter started in Saskatchewan my son in law started and I brought it back to Marquette and a 2 year old starter brought back from Ischia Italy. I make two loaves a week and alternate between the two starters. So they get fed and used every other week. Amazing to me is although they are both sour dough starters there are distinct differences in taste and consistency. Starting process tomorrow morning. Will post some pics.


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## ibglowin

My only local option for "artisanal" bread...........




Lots of better options 35 miles (one way) away in Santa Fe but nowadays we don't go there except for something essential we can't get locally. Looking forward to honing my skills. I just snagged a 25lb bag of dark rye from Amazon that should arrive at the end of the week. No local option could be had.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049YNXDY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## ZebraB

We have tried to cook pizza on the green egg and failed miserably. 1) gooey mess in the grill 2) burned and no good. With summer around the corner might try it again. But our go to recipe is below. 









ChefSteps


ChefSteps is here to make cooking more fun. Get recipes, tips, and videos that show the whys behind the hows for sous vide, grilling, baking, and more.




www.chefsteps.com





Like your video stated metal is better than stone in the oven. I started out with the stone but I have found that the cast iron pan is much better to get crisper pizza crust. (cast iron pan link below). We have put it in the oven 30 minutes before and still had just as much success as 1 hour. We also switch it to broil for the last minute or so to crisp up the pepperoni. 



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000E2V3X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I have also found 2 -3 day old dough is much better. I have frozen some dough after fermentation and taken out of freezer and thaw for 1 hour. It doesn't stretch quite the same but good, easy and tasty.

I have yet to find that go to pizza sauce recipe. I hope to find that canned tomatoes in the video and try that out.


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## ibglowin

Had pretty good luck on my Kamado. This was my last cook. I kept the temp right at 450 so it was not crazy fast and crust was spot on perfect. I picked up a SS Pizza pan with the holes in the bottom and that seemed to help even out the cook (top and bottom). Almost had too much wood smoke flavor. I used too much mesquite!







ZebraB said:


> We have tried to cook pizza on the green egg and failed miserably. 1) gooey mess in the grill 2) burned and no good. With summer around the corner might try it again.


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## DizzyIzzy

Boatboy24 said:


> A successful evening on the pizza (and even bread) front. I took the dough recipe linked below and slightly modified. I used 80% AP flour and 20% Caputo 00. And instead of a full 8g of yeast, I added 6, plus 50g of the Levain I started 5 days ago. I've done the recipe as prescribed twice - once with an additional 3 days in the fridge and once making pizza with it an hour after mixing. The 3 day version was pretty good, but the 'do it now' version lacked any flavor or complexity. My experiment tonight worked very well and although I had a dough that was a little on the sticky side after rising, it turned out 3 good pizzas. Storms forced me to do what I had already been thinking about - cook in the oven instead of on the KettlePizza. 550F, preheating for about an hour and 15 minutes before the first pie. Once the first one came out, I began working the dough and assembling the second - this allowed a 5-7 minute reheat for the stone while I got everything together. Each pizza was in for about 7-8 minutes. Crust was crisp on the outside, but had a nice chew - not quite NY style, but pretty close. When all was said and done, 1 cheese pizza and two pepperoni and sausage.
> 
> View attachment 63216
> 
> 
> View attachment 63217
> 
> 
> View attachment 63218
> 
> 
> View attachment 63219
> 
> 
> On the bread front, another experiment. 100g of the discarded Levain, 75g of whole wheat flour and 175g of AP flour. Added warm water and a pinch of yeast and let it go for about 6 hours. I did one fold after an hour+. It fermented very well, but I let it proof for a tad too long. Not a total collapse, but it could have been better. I was a little shy on the salt, but dipping in EVOO and Parmesan fixed that pretty quickly.
> 
> View attachment 63221
> 
> 
> View attachment 63222
> 
> 
> View attachment 63223
> 
> 
> Finally, here's the dough and sauce recipe I've been using as a base for pizza. As mentioned above, I've made changes to the dough. The sauce is outstanding as is, but I usually end up adding a little of the liquid back in, and a half to 3/4 teaspoon of red wine vinegar to brighten it up.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pizza Dough Master Recipe
> 
> 
> Cooks everywhere agree: this is the best pizza dough recipe! It's a trusted resource for how to make pizza dough with the perfect chewy texture—every time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.acouplecooks.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Marzano Tomato Pizza Sauce Recipe | The Home Pizzeria
> 
> 
> San Marzano tomatoes are an Italian heirloom variety of plum tomatoes. Compared to roma tomatoes San Marzano have fewer seeds, more meaty texture, and thinner shape; often with a point at the bottom. Flavor wise they are also sweeter and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thehomepizzeria.com


Jim, now that's the way the interior of bread should look. Thanks for the receipes. I live alone so I don't usually make pizza for just myself, but seeing this dough has rekindled my many years of baking skills......think I will invite a gentleman-friend over to help stretch and "throw" the crust! LOL (We usually go out for pizza, but yours looks so yummy!.......................Thanks for taking the time to post..............................Dizzy


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## DizzyIzzy

1d10t said:


> Probably no coincidence that in ancient Egypt the brewery and the bakery were in the same building. Next time I brew beer I'm thinking of taking my liquid from the active ferment and making my bread with that.


That would probably work very well...........................Dizzy


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## ibglowin

In case anyone is interested their is actually a show devoted to Pizza!









The Pizza Show - VICE Video: Documentaries, Films, News Videos


Welcome To The Pizza Show, A Series On Munchies That Explores The Wonderful World Of Pizza.




video.vice.com


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## ceeaton

Took the discard after I started a "fridge" starter for longer term storage (sick of feeding it every day, sometimes twice a day). Made a normal loaf with bread flour, reduced the yeast a bit. Might have reduced it a bit too much, left to proof for three hours and very little rise. This is a real potent starter, wondering if there is a competition factor with added yeast that doesn't let it do its normal thing. Anyway, made a smaller loaf than I intended, but it will work out well for my wifey's toast in the morning since she's watching her weight (and watching mine go down, LOL). Nice aroma in the whole house right now.


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## Boatboy24

I'm at almost a week with my starter and getting tired of feeding it (and throwing away so much every day). I cut it in half today, based on the fact that Ken Forkish said it was OK. I'll prep a loaf with it tomorrow that will ferment overnight in the fridge and bake on Thursday. At that point, I'll keep the starter in the fridge and just bring it out a couple days prior to wanting bread.


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## ceeaton

Try two weeks, that's why I finally said "uncle" and moved it to the fridge.

It does smell wonderful though...


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## wood1954

Boatboy24 said:


> Since so many of us are discovering the joys of making bread and/or going further down the bread rabbit hole than before, I thought I might create a thread for breads, pizza doughs and other fermented baked goods.
> 
> Today is day 5 of my Levain and I did the usual feeding/discard this morning. From the discard, I kept about 100g, and added 75g of whole wheat flour and 175g of AP flour to make a small test loaf. Also added a pinch of yeast and about 1/4tsp of salt. About 90 minutes after mixing, I gave it a fold and put it back in its covered container. It's fermenting nicely and in about an hour, I'll shape it and get it into the proofing basket. After about an hour proof, I'll bake.
> 
> The Levain itself really turned a corner overnight and is becoming more solid (appears to be 'mature'). On reaching in and grabbing a handful, you can see and feel the weblike structure it has created. Tomorrow, I'll feed and create the first 'official' loaf from it, which will be shaped, rise, and then proof overnight in the fridge for baking Tuesday morning.
> 
> For reference, most of what I'm doing is either directly out of, or based on "Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast" by Ken Forkish. I'm also picking the brain of @ceeaton a fair amount - particularly regarding how to make various things from the daily Levain discard, including bread and pretzels.
> 
> Post up your bread, pizza, pretzels, etc here.


Just bought that book after visiting my daughter who made a really good loaf for us from a recipe in the book.


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## sour_grapes

Here is today's effort. Just plain ol' K.A. bread flour, started fermenting last night. It was very warm today (duh!) so it rose a LOT throughout the day, lots of folding. The twist is that I baked it on the grill. It was just too damn hot to turn on the oven. (I asked a lot of my grill today, as you may see in the Dinner thread.) The grill got a little carried away, up to >500F, so I got a little blackening on the bottom. Never hurt nobody! I was happy with the texture and taste -- no complaints.

The first pic shows the bloated dough about to go into the Dutch oven that is preheating in that grill. (The burnt parchment paper is because I tried to recycle it from last time, but it fell apart. I had to scramble in some fresh parchment beneath it.) I cooked it 25' covered at ~500F, and ~10' uncovered. Second pic shows the good, the bad, and the ugly of the loaf. Still delicious!


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## Boatboy24

That's a great looking loaf, Paul. Looks like you may have had some coals under your DO?


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## sour_grapes

Boatboy24 said:


> That's a great looking loaf, Paul. Looks like you may have had some coals under your DO?



I had it on "indirect heat," as best as I could. That is, the coals occupied most of one half of the 22" Weber, and the DO occupied most of the other half. I am sure that there was more radiant (and possibly convective) heat delivered to the bottom of the DO than would have been the case in a normal oven.

Last time I did this, I put down some ceramic pieces (from a broken pizza stone) under the DO. Not sure if it made any difference before, but, in any event, I didn't think to do that yesterday. 

C'est la vie. Beats the hell out of cranking a 450F oven in my kitchen on the warmest day of the year so far!


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## ibglowin

If you think KA Flour is just "plain" these days you are mistaken! It is impossible to find on the store shelves out here in the West. My only source is Amazon which is usually marked up 2X or a bootleg shipment from the PRPA.  

I seem to be able to buy whole packer briskets every other week for $2.99/lb however......



sour_grapes said:


> Here is today's effort. Just plain ol' K.A. bread flour.......


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## Boatboy24

It is only in the last few weeks the King Arthur (or really any flour, for that matter) has been available here. I've been able to get it (and Caputo 00) each of my last few weekly trips to Wegman's though. Brisket is still $6/lb at Wegs, but has come down to $4.39 for Prime packers at Costco.


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## ibglowin

The Prime Brisket was running $3.50/lb last week at Costco in ABQ.


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## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> It is only in the last few weeks the King Arthur (or really any flour, for that matter) has been available here. I've been able to get it (and Caputo 00) each of my last few weekly trips to Wegman's though. Brisket is still $6/lb at Wegs, but has come down to $4.39 for Prime packers at Costco.


Same here. Was in two different chain grocery stores on two different days, both had a few five pound bags, I guess you call them, of whole wheat, bread and all purpose flour. Good to see they are finally getting some stock, let's see how long that lasts.

Best price on brisket I can find is at the Giant for $4.99/lb.


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## Boatboy24

About an hour ago, finished the rise and shaped the loaf for my Pain de Campagne. 12 to 14 hour proof, then we bake.


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## Yooper🍷

Every other week I use the 3 year old Saskatchewan starter the following week I use the Isaiah Italy starter. These loaves are the Saskatchewan ones


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## Yooper🍷

Yooper🍷 said:


> Every other week I use the 3 year old Saskatchewan starter the following week I use the Isaiah Italy starter. These loaves are the Saskatchewan onesView attachment 63320


I refrigerate 300 g starter after I bake and it stays in fridge two weeks till I start next two loaves.


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## Boatboy24




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## sour_grapes

I should get a proofing basket, if only for those enticing patterns!


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## Yooper🍷

A Banneton does make a difference in the bread you use it on. I use the linen liner which does pull some moisture out.


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## Boatboy24

A couple more shots, after I cut it open and had some with lunch. Best bread I've made to date.


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## sour_grapes

Boatboy24 said:


> A couple more shots, after I cut it open and had some with lunch. Best bread I've made to date.



Bread porn. Never thought it would come to this!


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## ibglowin

The reality of living 4 months of pandemic and quarantine life I suppose.


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## skyfire322

Not too shabby if I do say so myself!


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## sour_grapes

skyfire322 said:


> Not too shabby if I do say so myself!



Hey, we need some deets!


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## ibglowin

Got started early today before it heats up outside. 2 loaves sourdough.


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## Yooper🍷

Here is my PaneFrancese made overnight with polish. We always have a loaf of sourdough plus one of these sitting around. Great with dinner, bruschetta or anything else you want


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## sour_grapes

Yooper🍷 said:


> Here is my PaneFrancese made overnight with polish. We always have a loaf of sourdough plus one of these sitting around. Great with dinner, bruschetta or anything else you want



I love Francese (from a local baker, not the boulangerie I mentioned upthread). Can you tell me where you got your recipe from (if that is a true assumption)?

In other news, I was easily able to get another bag of K.A. Bread Flour this morning.


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## Yooper🍷

I don’t know where I got the original recipe I’ve been tweeking it for a year or so. I’ll try posting it tonight or tomorrow.


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## ibglowin

We have plenty of selection out here in Krogertown........






sour_grapes said:


> In other news, I was easily able to get another bag of K.A. Bread Flour this morning.


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## sour_grapes

Yooper🍷 said:


> I don’t know where I got the original recipe I’ve been tweeking it for a year or so. I’ll try posting it tonight or tomorrow.



Thank you!


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## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> We have plenty of selection out here in Krogertown........



FWIW, I did buy my K.A. in a Kroger-owned store (Metro Market). They also carry it at my local independent co-op.


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## ibglowin

There is a spot for it on our local store shelf and I actually snagged a bag of KA Bread Flour a couple weeks back but it seems like they only get a couple bags in at a time these days and they are snapped up immediately. Not sure if they get in any AP or Whole Wheat as I have never seen any in the wild as they say......


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## ceeaton

ibglowin said:


> There is a spot for it on our local store shelf and I actually snagged a bag of KA Bread Flour a couple weeks back but it seems like they only get a couple bags in at a time these days and they are snapped up immediately. Not sure if they get in any AP or Whole Wheat as I have never seen any in the wild as they say......


Time to pack up a few loaves, LOL.


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## purpletongue

Also started sourdough starter a few months ago and started baking occasionally with it. Have been pretty low carb for years but wanted some bread after the urge grew and grew, read sourdough was the healthiest ticket (also had a boule abroad that lasted forever as I nibbled on it and fell in love). Looks like some great stuff in this thread! I mostly do a no-knead sourdough for the occasional loaf. Though I did try a ciabatta recipe from a book I have. I overcooked it a bit though so it wasn't as moist as could be (timer failure). The latest stuff I did with my discard was English Muffins. They turned out great with just a little sour tang. I had no idea they were pan fried. Totally recommend trying it out if you've never made them.


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## Yooper🍷

MONTY’s PAN FRANCESE
​
SPONGE
104 g all purpose flour
104 g water
1/8 tsp yeast


DOUGH
460 g AP or Bread Flour
25 g whole wheat flour w/bran and center
1 ½ TBL Wheat germ
1 ½ tsp yeast
¼ tsp ginger (helps yeast work)
1 ¼ cup water luke warm milk 
1 TBL olive oil
12 g salt

INSTRUCTIONS

For the sponge: Stir the ingredients in 4-cup liquid measuring cup with wooden spoon until well combined. Cover tightly with plastic wrap and let sit at room temperature until sponge has risen and begins to collapse, about 6 hours (sponge can sit at room temperature for up to 24 hours).


2 
For the dough: Whisk flour and yeast and ginger together in bowl of stand mixer. Stir milk into sponge with wooden spoon until well combined. Using dough hook on low speed, slowly add sponge mixture to flour mixture and mix until cohesive dough starts to form and no dry flour remains, about 2 minutes, scraping down bowl as needed. Cover bowl tightly with plastic and let dough rest for 20 minutes.


3
Add oil and salt to dough and knead on medium-low speed until dough is smooth and elastic and clears sides of bowl about 8 minutes. Transfer dough to lightly greased large bowl or container, cover tightly with plastic, and let rise for 30 minutes. 

4
Using greased bowl scraper (or your fingertips), fold dough over itself by gently lifting and folding edge of dough toward middle. Turn bowl 45 degrees and fold dough again; repeat turning bowl and folding dough 6 more times (total of 8 folds). Cover tightly with plastic and let rise for 30 minutes. Repeat folding, then cover bowl tightly with plastic and let dough rise until nearly doubled in size, 1 to 1½ hours.

5
I purchased a 4” 30 guage dryer vent pipe and cut it to 20” – (See Pic) Line with piece of parchment paper. Transfer dough to lightly floured counter. Carefully make dough into 10 by 10 -inch square., 

6
Fold top of dough 1/3 of the square and roll toward bottom pressing seam gently to seal..

7
Gently slide your hands underneath each end of loaf and transfer seam side down to prepared dryer vent and parchment paper. Then cover loosely lightly floured dish towel and tuck a large plastic garbage bag around it. Let rise until loaf increases in size by about half and dough springs back minimally when poked gently with your knuckle, 30 minutes to 1 hour. I usually leave for at least an hour to hour and 15 min.


8
One hour before baking, adjust oven racks to lower-middle and lowest positions. Pre heat oven to 450 degrees. 

9

Remove Plastic sheet and dish towel and cover dough loosely with aluminum foil blocking ends of dryer vent also – place into oven for 40 min – at end of 40 min remove foil and slide the loaf out of the dryer vent back into oven – it will be rather light in color – watch it closely because within a couple of min it will start to darken. Remove, brush with melted butter and let cool for 2 hours before cutting (If you can)


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## sour_grapes

Wow, it would have taken me a LOOOONG time before I hit upon using a dryer vent....

I will have to give this a try...


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## Yooper🍷

I have baguette pans but they were only 2 1/2 to 3 “ just too small and using a couche let dough not lift as high as I wanted. A 4” dryer vent works great. They com 24” long which was to long so cut down.


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## Yooper🍷

You have to make sure your getting dryer vent 30 gauge the 26 gauge are too hard to open up


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## skyfire322

sour_grapes said:


> Hey, we need some deets!


It was a no-knead bread. 

Half bread flour, half rye flour. For some ungodly reason, I threw in a pinch of dill. Floured it, threw it in the oven. 45 minutes later, I'm bending my bread knife lol.


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## sour_grapes

I had another go at bread on the grill last night. I got the grill to about 450F, and it held pretty well during the bake. I did (barely) remember to put some ceramic pieces (broken pizza stone) under the DO, and the bottom of the bread was unscorched. _Pas mal._


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## purpletongue

sour_grapes said:


> I had another go at bread on the grill last night. I got the grill to about 450F, and it held pretty well during the bake. I did (barely) remember to put some ceramic pieces (broken pizza stone) under the DO, and the bottom of the bread was unscorched. _Pas mal._



Looks yummy! Nice rise. Did it have any smokey flavor?


----------



## sour_grapes

purpletongue said:


> Looks yummy! Nice rise. Did it have any smokey flavor?



Thanks!

No, not really on the smoke. I was hoping for some! I should say that I was using only BBQ briquettes, as I was out of lump charcoal.


----------



## ceeaton

Pizza night tonight. Decided on an inside cook and fortunately I did. A shower hit at 6 pm on the dot, would have been cooking my second one. Neighbor to the right is taking care of her elderly Mom and needs all the help she can get at times, so I offer to give her some of my experimental pizzas (she got the first two). Neighbor on the left needed something to eat because his wife took her daughter and mine to go furniture shopping (for them not us). He got pizza #3.

Made three doughs yesterday and let them in the fridge overnight. Half bread flour, half KA Sir Lancelot high gluten flour. They were fun to work with, I think I stumbled on a good thing. Our pizza had a real nice flavor and bite to the crust. I formed them into a disk, rested under a paper towel for 10 minutes, then formed the pizza. Would pull a dough as a pizza cooked, worked out well. Got all four done in about 30 minutes. Kept my wife on her toes as she was the delivery "boy" tonight (daughter shopping, son working, other daughter away on vacation). Of course the neighbors pies were delivered in a pizza box (I think it's a nice cheap touch, need to give positive vibes up front in case it isn't my best effort).

Sauce was a simple passata with a bit of garlic and Italian spice, cooked for about 5 minutes and cooled. Cheese was a base of ground romano with shredded provolone on top. Average cooking time was about 6 minutes, pizza stone hung at 523, pizza steel on top was 505 after the first cook. Didn't have to worry about burning the bottom of the crust if I left it on 10 seconds too long, there is something good about that, much less stressful cook.

Wifey went back for a third piece, she said ours could have been cooked longer, I was worried that she likes a thick soft crust. Guess I'll do that one longer next time (which I prefer).


----------



## ibglowin

This weeks bake. An experimental loaf of Rosemary Sourdough. Turned out pretty good IMHO. Used bread flour instead of AP. Used 1tsp of dry active yeast and 200gms sourdough leaven. 4TBS chopped fresh rosemary.


----------



## ceeaton

Mike, after tasting a slice or three, would you add more or less rosemary?

Wifey itching for me to make a loaf, maybe I'll make a traditional non sourdough loaf tomorrow with some rosemary.


----------



## ibglowin

LOL I finished the bread and headed outside to cut pavers before the afternoon thunderstorm runs me inside. I will let you know in a bit!


----------



## ibglowin

Just had a nice slice, lightly toasted and i went back and forth tasting the bread on its own and then dipped in some EVOO, SPG.
I think the rosemary was just right. I made the mistake of trying to mix it in after I had mixed up the dough. It was hard to get it evenly dispersed in the dough I thought. Should have dumped it in with the dry flower and then mixed that up (by itself) dry to get it more evenly dispersed beforehand.

Mrs IB approves as well as our neighbors down the street who received the other loaf.



ceeaton said:


> Mike, after tasting a slice or three, would you add more or less rosemary?


----------



## ceeaton

Thanks for reporting the results!

Making a traditional shaped loaf using KA Sir Galahad flour (basically commercial AP flour) but substituted about 2 TBS dried rosemary I had grown last year (would have stripped the plant I have to get 4 TBS of fresh). Also added garlic, buttermilk and a 1/4 cup of sourdough discard when I fed my fridge starter.

Smells really good proofing, we'll see what the flavor is like when finished.

If we have a pasta dish tomorrow (going to be unbearable outside) I'll slice some up and broil for rosemary garlic bread.


----------



## Kraffty

do any of you master bread makers do a Focaccia? just read a recipe calling for store bought pizza dough and had one of those "ah hah" thoughts.
???


----------



## ceeaton

I think @Boatboy24 Jim has posted a few of those. Never had requests from the peasants, so haven't tried it yet. Maybe when I'm stuck at home for three weeks when my Son visits from FL I'll give it a try (our workplace is following the rules by the letter, which is good).

Maybe a sourdough discard focaccia...


----------



## Boatboy24

ceeaton said:


> I think @Boatboy24 Jim has posted a few of those. Never had requests from the peasants, so haven't tried it yet. Maybe when I'm stuck at home for three weeks when my Son visits from FL I'll give it a try (our workplace is following the rules by the letter, which is good).
> 
> Maybe a sourdough discard focaccia...



Nope, never done one. But it's on the to-do list.


----------



## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> Nope, never done one. But it's on the to-do list.


Mind is the first thing to fail when we get older, LOL.

Someone did....I guess I can't remember who.


----------



## ibglowin

Have not tried that one yet but this looks like an "ridiculously easy" recipe to try... LOL









With less than 10-minutes of hands-on time, the name Ridiculously Easy Focaccia Bread says it all! Almost. It's also ridiculously delicious!


With less than 10-minutes of hands-on time, the name Ridiculously Easy Focaccia Bread says it all! Almost. It's also ridiculously delicious! #easyfocaccia, #easybreadrecipe, #focacciabread, #nokneadbread




thecafesucrefarine.com








Kraffty said:


> do any of you master bread makers do a Focaccia? just read a recipe calling for store bought pizza dough and had one of those "ah hah" thoughts.
> ???


----------



## Kraffty

looks pretty cool, I'm thinking of using a pizza dough recipe, adding rosemary, thyme and making a small version, maybe to go with rotisserie chicken tomorrow. Freeze the extra dough for some weeknight pizza.


----------



## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> Have not tried that one yet but this looks like an "ridiculously easy" recipe to try... LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With less than 10-minutes of hands-on time, the name Ridiculously Easy Focaccia Bread says it all! Almost. It's also ridiculously delicious!
> 
> 
> With less than 10-minutes of hands-on time, the name Ridiculously Easy Focaccia Bread says it all! Almost. It's also ridiculously delicious! #easyfocaccia, #easybreadrecipe, #focacciabread, #nokneadbread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecafesucrefarine.com



Okay, I am "in" for trying this _in the name of science! _


----------



## ceeaton

Inspired by NM Mike's (ibglowin) experimental bread today, decided to make a loaf (pan shaped) using some dried rosemary I had hanging in the garage from last year. Believe it or not it was still very pungent. Only used about 1 1/2 TBS and a TBS of chopped garlic, has a really good flavor. Kitchen (and house for that matter) smells wonderful.


----------



## ZebraB

Second time making bagels. Easy and much better than store bought.



Used this recipe for the dough. Used 1/2 sugar (personal preference). Learned 2 mins for the Yukone and not to make like mash potatoes. 4 min in food processor to get a correct window and 5 oz for each bagel. Total batch is the 5 shown.









Homemade Bagels Recipe


These tender, chewy, blistery homemade bagels are easy to make yourself—and they stay fresh for days.




www.seriouseats.com





The next morning I followed the cooking process from the link below. I think I will use a tad less malt in the water. (It is a sweeter so personal preference). 









ChefSteps


ChefSteps is here to make cooking more fun. Get recipes, tips, and videos that show the whys behind the hows for sous vide, grilling, baking, and more.




www.chefsteps.com


----------



## JoP

Hi all,

If you happen to be driving down Highway 1 on the Pacific coast of California between Half Moon Bay and Santa Cruz, treat yourself to one of the most incredible breads you ever tasted.
About 3 miles inland there is a small town called Pescadero where you will find Arcangeli Grocery store.
This is where they make the famous Artichoke garlic herb bread I will never forget.
Many people tried to replicate it, but as far as I know, they are still trying.
If any of you tried to make it, share your experience

Arcangeli Grocery


----------



## ceeaton

Okay, took some sourdough starter and followed a recipe I have (gave to a few here) last night to make a biga (sponge to most of us). Was bubbling nicely this morning, so step one seemed to work well.




Next I added in most of the flour and a 1/2 tsp of yeast (just opened a pound pack, very fresh and active) and let it rest for 15 minutes, per the recipe, before mixing in 1 1/2 tsp of salt (called for 2) and some garlic powder. Added some more flour (used KA Sir Galahad artisan flour (just commercial AP flour)) and got it to a stiff but still moist consistency. Every half hour after that I folded it over, turning the bowl 90 degrees, for eight folds. Repeated every half hour for four total folds (called for three).




After the last fold, let rest, then put it on my lightly floured bread board, added some flour on top, split the lump of dough in half. After creating two discs by folding and pinching the dough underneath, let it rest five minutes. In the meantime, oiled and salted two 9" cake pans (lots of oil, 2 TBS of olive oil), after the five minutes put in top down, oiled top and sides, flipped and oiled the bottom. Covered with plastic wrap and let rest 10 minutes. After that flattened the dough with my oily fingers to the edges of the pan, pricked with a fork about 20 times to deflate any bubbles, then added ground romano cheese to both, some italian spice to one of them (for us since we were having spaghetti with meat sauce for dinner). Covered again with the plastic wrap and let hang out for about 15 more minutes.





About an hour before I was going to put them in the oven, set at 500*F with my KettlePizza stone on the middle rack. Checked the temp when I put them in the oven and the stone was reading 505. Dropped the temp to 450, per recipe, and cooked for 25 minutes, rotating the pans twice, before taking out and leaving to cool several minutes on a wire rack before extracting from the pans (slid right out).




I've never had focaccia, which my wife looked at me cross eyed, but the loaves seemed to have very little weight to them. Very crispy on the outside, tender and fluffy on the inside. Sorry the next picture of the texture is blurry, but the one loaf is gone (the other went to the neighbor, she's 94 and enjoys my experiments (they get pizzas once a week)). 







I liked it much better than the garlic bread I usually put under the broiler. I could see making some of these up and cooking as the KettlePizza cools down. Worked out well for my first attempt at focaccia.


----------



## Kraffty

Looks really good Craig, my attempt will go into the oven in about an hour. Made from pizza dough with rosemary, thyme and brushed with rosemary oil, we shall see....


----------



## ceeaton

Well, those directions seem to work. When you can be successful on your first try, it definitely wasn't me. Glad my wife had tried it before, so I got some good feedback. I think the absence of a loaf to have an after dinner piece speaks volumes.

The only strange thing was that there was absolutely no oil left after cooking, in the beginning it seemed like it was sauteing in the oil. Was too lazy to add any oil on top after I removed it from the oven. In reality, didn't need any more.


----------



## sour_grapes

sour_grapes said:


> Okay, I am "in" for trying this _in the name of science! _



Well, I made the easy focaccia recipe tonight. It was indeed easy, and it turned out well. I added a lot of fresh chopped sage to the dough, but it could have used even more. I used Maldon salt on top, which was a good touch. My only "complaint" was that it was _just_ a little fluffier than I would have preferred. Not a lot, but a little. I think it must have known I live in the midwest


----------



## ceeaton

Went over to get an ingredient my brother just started using in his pizza dough. He said he got really good browning at a lower temperature. It is diastatic malt powder, which I'm familiar with. When I brew a batch of all grain beer, it is the enzymes in the husks that convert the starch of the barley malt grain to sugars when kept at a specific temperature (usually in the 145-155*F range for an hour or more).

I'm going to throw some in a normal pizza dough recipe I've been toying with and will post, hopefully tomorrow, how things work out. I've been struggling to get good browning on my crusts without raising the temps too high and scorching the crust.

I like to change one variable at a time to see if there is a significant improvement or not. My brother bought both diastatic and non-diastatic malt and was asking me the difference. The blurb below was exactly what I shared with him, amazed myself that I remembered anything about it. Guess it is like riding a bike...

--------------------

What is the difference between Diastatic malt powder and non Diastatic malt powder?

Function. The *difference between non*-*diastatic malt* and *diastatic malt* is the enzyme content or activity. *Diastatic malt* is not kilned, but dried at low temperatures to preserve its enzymatic activity. *Non*-*diastatic malt* is produced for its sweetening and coloring effect.


----------



## ceeaton

Darn rain, only rain in PA and it has to be over my house!

Turned the oven on 525 on the convection setting. Hoping it gets warm enough by 5:45 to cook the pizzas. Pizza stone is up to 450 and the steel 505, I think I'll be okay.


----------



## Boatboy24

You know the deal, pics or it didn't happen. Especially since you now have this souped up network.


----------



## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> You know the deal, pics or it didn't happen. Especially since you now have this souped up network.


Don't get the souped up network until Monday afternoon, assuming he can enter my MAC address and serial number and keep me from having to wait an hour on hold to call it in. Though I will have to admit the hard wired line to the DSL box is much better than the WiFi was.

Did four pizzas, had to do them inside, bummer. All turned out well. Just didn't get the browning I was expecting. I will say the crust flavor was excellent, used Sir Galahad (commercial version of King Arthur all purpose flour), overnight ferment, no tearing and a really soft dough to pull. I'll put some images over on the dinner thread.


----------



## sour_grapes

Whaddya think of this sourdough?





(No, of course I did not make this! It is from that authentic boulangerie that I have mentioned before!  )


----------



## ibglowin

First stab at Sourdough Rye bread. 160gms dark rye flour. 750gms unbleached AP flour. 145gms sourdough leaven. 1TBS caraway seed in the dough and then additional sprinkled into the top and the banneton. Proofed overnight. Turned out great. Perfect amount of caraway. Rueben sandwiches later today!


----------



## sour_grapes

Another focaccia attempt. This was half whole wheat/half KA bread flour. I cooked it on the grill in a cast-iron frying pan. It was pretty nice, not _quite _as good as my last focaccia effort. I do find this focaccia thing easier than regular bread!


----------



## ceeaton

Pulled out the KettlePizza after the rain ended around 4:30. Every time I think of cooking pizza outdoors, it rains...go figure.

First pizza was my dough (a sourdough w/Trump unbleached high gluten flour) following my normal dough recipe. Gave to a neighbor, looked and smelled pretty good.

Second was my brothers dough, made with a crazy method I've shared with a few here. The dough is very soft, very easy to pull into a pie shape, but when it hit the hot stone it was stuck. The result was an interesting shaped pizza and some burnt cheese on my cordierite pizza stone. The crust was excellent, might be the best one I've cooked on the grill. You can see the wrinkles on the bottom crust shot where it acted like an accordion.

Other neighbor was having a cookout, so didn't want a pizza. Took her dough (also sourdough crust recipe) and made a pan shaped loaf. Kitchen smells pretty wonderful right now. Might have to toast a slice tomorrow morning and slather it with some philly cream cheese. Forgot to take a picture and I'm too lazy to go take one right now.


----------



## sour_grapes

More focaccia since having been turned on to this! This was 1/2 whole wheat, 1/2 KA bread flour. Made with fresh basil, and cooked on the grill. Honestly, I have not had any yet because we made too much for dinner, but it looked yummy.


----------



## Boatboy24

Made some sourdough English Muffins from this morning's discard. Of course, Egg McMuffins had to follow.


----------



## sour_grapes

I am really stuck (in a delicious way) on focaccia. Last night I started another loaf of half whole wheat/half KA bread flour dough, mixed with LOTS of fresh shredded basil. I cooked this on a grill at ~450F (hard to know exactly). Thankfully, I got this done before the rains came as will be described in the dinner thread.


----------



## bstnh1

Boatboy24 said:


> Made some sourdough English Muffins from this morning's discard. Of course, Egg McMuffins had to follow.
> 
> View attachment 64520
> 
> 
> View attachment 64521


Are you willing to share the recipe for the English Muffins???? They look great!


----------



## Kraffty

I'm in love with the focaccia also. Already plotting next weekend's version. Maybe some additional herbs inside or some Parmesan added.


----------



## Boatboy24

bstnh1 said:


> Are you willing to share the recipe for the English Muffins???? They look great!











Sourdough Discard Recipes


Searching for ways to use sourdough discard in your baking? Look no further! These 16 sourdough discard recipes make the most of that excess starter you have to hang around after feeding your starter. From blueberry muffins to savory pancakes to chocolate cake, you'll never want to throw away...




www.kingarthurbaking.com


----------



## bstnh1

Boatboy24 said:


> Sourdough Discard Recipes
> 
> 
> Searching for ways to use sourdough discard in your baking? Look no further! These 16 sourdough discard recipes make the most of that excess starter you have to hang around after feeding your starter. From blueberry muffins to savory pancakes to chocolate cake, you'll never want to throw away...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingarthurbaking.com


Thank you!!!


----------



## Kraffty

A friend of mine is also a bread baker and he sent me a Sourdough starter recipe and sourdough bread recipe he swears by so off in search of ingredients I went. Baking supplies are still in short supply around here, neither walmart or Fry's had any of the standard or generic brands of whole wheat or bread flour on the shelves.... None.... zero..... Nada. As I was about to give up and start searching on line I found the Bob's Red Mill display in a different area, 5 lbs Whole wheat around $5.00, 1-1/2lb Semolina (for my pizza) and Blue Bird flour was the closest I could find to bread flour 7.00 for 10lbs. I researched it afterward and see it's a popular brand in the four corners states and saw the usual mix of on line reviews mostly good though mixed on whether to use it for bread or not. Something about the protein levels being low which I know nothing about.

He also sent a recipe for ciabatta that starts with a sponge that starts 25 to 36 hours before mixing the dough which I'll start tomorrow for dinner on Saturday, hopefully.

Lastly a question. Does anyone here freeze their flour to kill off any Weevils or eggs that may be inside. I've read of this but never had a problem although I have had the problem a couple of times with packages of dried pasta.


----------



## ibglowin

Lots of Blue Bird to be had here in Northern NM including right here in little LA. I have used before. I was pleased with my results (pizza dough). I keep looking for KA since that is what is impossible to find in these parts. And everyone seems to use it. Every now and then if I get lucky they will have 4-5 bags of KA bread flour and or whole wheat locally. I usually snag a bag. Just because it's 2020......


----------



## ceeaton

Kraffty said:


> Lastly a question. Does anyone here freeze their flour to kill off any Weevils or eggs that may be inside. I've read of this but never had a problem although I have had the problem a couple of times with packages of dried pasta.


I don't freeze my flour, I figure they add some more protein and extra bite, LOL.


----------



## sour_grapes

Kraffty said:


> Lastly a question. Does anyone here freeze their flour to kill off any Weevils or eggs that may be inside. I've read of this but never had a problem although I have had the problem a couple of times with packages of dried pasta.





ceeaton said:


> I don't freeze my flour, I figure they add some more protein and extra bite, LOL.



So, in other words Craig, you think finding the occasional bug is the lesser of two weevils?


----------



## Kraffty

sour_grapes said:


> So, in other words Craig, you think finding the occasional bug is the lesser of two weevils?



So even though it's only the 15th of the month I say this wins "August reply of the month" hands down....someone prove me wrong.....


----------



## ceeaton

Kraffty said:


> So even though it's only the 15th of the month I say this wins "August reply of the month" hands down....someone prove me wrong.....


It might be reply of the year in my book, but we do have 138 days until the new year begins...


----------



## Kraffty

First go at Ciabatta from a recipe that calls for starting a Sponge 24 hours before mixing the dough. I took it a step further and used a sourdough starter to create the Sponge and followed the recipe exactly from there. Chewy crunchy crust and soft and really flavorful interior. First time using Blue Bird flour and I think it works just fine. This loaf will become garlic toast to go with steak dinner tonight.


----------



## Chuck E

My attempt at a sour dough starter failed. It was going good for a couple days, then it separated and smelled bad. Not sure what the problem is, but I will attempt again.


----------



## ceeaton

Today's project was aimed at the KettlePizza. Beautiful day in Central PA. Made up a couple of doughs and got the grill going. Only issue was that I couldn't get my new "normal" base charcoal (B&B) and had to use some Kingsford. After two pizzas the Kingsford gave up the goat and my temps dropped. Threw a bunch of pecan and apple wood on and the only finished pizza image was what resulted. You can get the KettlePizza too hot (stone was running around 800*F using my infrared temp probe, no idea what the ambient temp was, all gauges were pegged on high). The pizza that resulted after 2 minutes was actually quite edible. I do make an extra dough (was planning on making 5 so I made 6) for times like these. All a learning process, just didn't realize there was all that much to learn about making pizza on a grill.


----------



## sour_grapes

I haven't been reporting. I got in a rut -- I just keep making that super-easy focaccia over and over. I have been making it about every 3 days. Sometimes I cook it on the grill, sometimes in the oven. It turns out delicious every time (some more than others, I will admit). I am trying to decide what will make me try something different or even go back to my normal boule bread? I don't see the reason!


----------



## Boatboy24

I'm overdue - haven't made anything in about a month. Time to feed the starter...


----------



## Chuck E

@ceeaton I made pizza last night for the in-laws. My stone was about 600F for the first pie and went down to 500F for the second, which took longer to cook. I had TOO MUCH trouble getting the pies to slide into the grill. Some people have mentioned using semolina under the pies. I've tried corn meal. 
Looking for tips to get the pies on and off the peel.


----------



## Boatboy24

@Chuck E : I've found the semolina works much better than the corn meal, and doesn't burn nearly as easily. Also, in my experience, a metal peel is much easier to use than a wooden one. Once I get the dough stretched, I place it on the metal peel for assembly, but give it a quick back and forth shake to be sure it slides easily. I do the same after I assemble, but prior to putting in the oven/grill. If it isn't moving easily, I'll gently lift whatever corner(s) of the pie aren't moving and throw a little more semolina under there.


----------



## ceeaton

@ChuckE, I use semolina as well. Use a wooden peel for assembly, a metal one once I get it on the stone (it's much thinner, easier to pick up the cooking pie). I only have enough semolina for a couple of more cooks, hoping my brother can sell me some more. Can't find it in the grocery stores or specialty shops, everyone must be making pasta through this covid stuff. I can get some at a restaurant supply store, but it is a 50 lb sack, enough for the rest of my life even if I'd live to 100, which I won't (history of early male passing in our family).


----------



## Kraffty

@ChuckE I'm pretty much a beginner at the whole pizza thing too but the faster you top that pizza and get if off the peel the better, like really quick if possible. Cheating by putting parchment paper under the dough works also and is pretty fool proof. At least until we can get a little more experience under our belts like the guys above.


----------



## Boatboy24

Two days, two loaves. Got the Levain out of the fridge on Sunday and fed it. Fed again yesterday and made this loaf with the discard - loosely the same recipe as the Pan de Campagne from Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast; with just a bit of improv/not reading directions. I over proofed and didn't get quite the oven spring I'd hoped for, but it was still better than good. 




Today's loaf was Pan de Campagne by the book. Overnight proof, very good (but not great this time) oven spring. 




This stuff is positively delicious, but I need to up my game to keep up with some of you guys and start making some focaccia or ciabatta.


----------



## sour_grapes

Oh, I don't think you are missing anything! That looks great.

I am really in a focaccia rut. I just banged one out to cook tomorrow. Just too easy!


----------



## Kraffty

My first full on sourdough from scratch starter. Getting there but want even more sour flavor.


----------



## ZebraB

Has anyone made Pizza all Romana and have a good recipe. It looks like a combination of focaccia bread and pizza. So I would like to try. I did find this at the following website, but process sometimes is everything.



https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40750.0


----------



## Kraffty

We have company coming next Sunday for a 5 day visit. I know bread freezes well and was thinking of baking a few types ahead of time and then using the food-saver to vacuum pac before freezing. Any thoughts on how well that would work at producing "fresh bread" without having to spend time fussing while company's here?


----------



## sour_grapes

Offhand, I think the food saver is more likely to harm than help. I routinely store bread in the freezer (without vacuum packing it).


----------



## Kraffty

What is your gut feeling on why it would harm rather than help? It seems to me that the less oxygen the better.


----------



## sour_grapes

Oh, I was just worried about crushing the poor loaf. Physically flattening it.


----------



## bstnh1

I'm really not that keen on freezing bread. I do it quite often, but I find it tends to dry it out and get it to the "stale" stage a lot faster. Having said that, I have read that the best way to freeze bread is to remove as much air as possible form the bag and double bag it. Sounds like your idea of vacuum packing it might just do the trick!


----------



## Boatboy24

ZebraB said:


> Has anyone made Pizza all Romana and have a good recipe. It looks like a combination of focaccia bread and pizza. So I would like to try. I did find this at the following website, but process sometimes is everything.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=40750.0



Never tried it, but the results sure look good.


----------



## Rocky

Kraffty said:


> What is your gut feeling on why it would harm rather than help? It seems to me that the less oxygen the better.


I agree with Paul and would not recommend vacuum packing the baked loaf. Removing the air from a bag that surrounds the bread is one thing but the vacuum would remove the air inside the loaf.

We make bread in batches and freeze a loaf or two routinely in freezer bags. When doing so, we squeeze out as much of the air in the bag and do not have any issues with this. We also pop the thawed loaf into a warm oven before serving. You might also try making the dough and freezing it and then baking it freshly each day.


----------



## ZebraB

What I have done with Breads, liquids (i.e. home made broth) and chopped veggies is cover in freezer until frozen and then I vacuum seal. It is never as good as fresh bread but last a lot longer. Also the liquids do not get sucked out of the veggies. Just put veggie bag under the faucet and it will defrost in a few minutes. However, I do not mix frozen with fresh in stir fry because the cooking timing is different. Great for soups sauces etc


----------



## Kraffty

@ZebraB that sounds like a plan. Thanks!


----------



## ZebraB

P.S. Make sure you cut open the bag when defrosting. Also another option you might want is to freeze bread dough. See attached link for how to do this. I have not done this for bread only pizza. It likely will taste fresher but still may be more hassle than you want with guests around

6 Easy Steps to Freeze Yeast Bread Dough At least you can do that with Pizza.


----------



## Kraffty

Made a rosemary sourdough and a couple of Ciabatta loaves yesterday. Put in the Freezer overnight and will use the FoodSaver today. Planning on a loaf of buttermilk cinnamon raisin walnut late in the week just to use for French toast breakfasts.


----------



## Yooper🍷

My morning bake. (2) sour dough made with 3 year old starter from Ischia Italy and single rye bread loaf in preparation of my home made pastrami that is done curing and going in oven today.


----------



## Boatboy24

I think I've lost my starter. Opened it up last night to find a gray liquid floating on top.


----------



## Yooper🍷

Boatboy24 said:


> I think I've lost my starter. Opened it up last night to find a gray liquid floating on top.


I’d try pouring it off and feed it.


----------



## Yooper🍷

I have three starters that I rotate and use one every Monday. Take out of fridge and feed, feed again Tuesday morning, Tuesday afternoon put two loaf bread dough together, Tuesday eve form and put in Banneton then into fridge overnight. Bake Wednesday morning. Starters - (4) year old Saskatchewan originated, (3) year old Ischia Italy originated and 200 year old verified San Francisco starter. Interesting point that I can’t explain - the Saskatchewan and Ischia starter breads I have to eat within 7 or possibly 8 days or mold starts showing up. The SanFrancisco starter bread goes 13 - 14 days and no mold. Strange.


----------



## ZebraB

Boatboy24 said:


> I think I've lost my starter. Opened it up last night to find a gray liquid floating on top.


You should be able to feed and save it. Once it is saved you might want to dry a starter as back up. I tend to bake more in winter than summer. So you can put it on hold










Putting your sourdough starter on hold


Sourdough baking is endlessly fascinating, isn't it? First-time sourdough bakers, excited by the starter they've created, happily explore the huge realm of possibilities for its use. (And if you're a "newbie," we highly recommend you check out our Complete Guide: Baking with Sourdough.) More...




www.kingarthurbaking.com


----------



## ZebraB

A local restaurant has teamed up with a community college for 6 weeks on line classes. It is a cool concept to get money to local restaurants, museum, ballet (aerobic classes) and donations for charity that gives restaurants money to make food for the needy. Last night we watched the bread making class. There wasn't much learning from the class. However, it made me aware of an extension from WSU, called the bread lab. They study growing grains and making bread the most economical and nutritional way. 

* Big key takeaway is to try unsifted wheat flour. This cannot be found in local grocery stores, but preserves the grain nutrients which are essential for a diverse gut microbiome and, consequentially, for optimal immune function, metabolic rate, and nutrient absorption. I am a white bread junkie but after looking at the following site, I will pick up some unsifted flour when I get the opportunity. (They suggested looking for local growers).

* Bread at the local grocery store is made and packaged in 2 hours. They add 17 additional ingredients to make this happen. These ingredients are not good for you. This is why home make bread is so much better than store bought.

* Wheat bread requires much more water. This has been more of a recent trend, so a 10 year old recipe handed down might not be the best way to make wheat bread. They have recipes on thier website including a croissant which they raved about

* Wheat bread is better left uncut for a day to let the crust develop.





__





WSU Breadlab | Washington State University


[video vid_id="https://youtu.be/IebtG7O2s_c" vid_type="youtube" ]Nutritious, Sustainable Food for EveryoneOur goal is to bring more affordable, great tasting bread to the world one loaf at a time. Or maybe faster than that.[image...




thebreadlab.wsu.edu


----------



## Kraffty

I received a pretty special belated birthday gift from a good friend who has baked bread forever and is a wealth of information, whether asked for or not . He's also a bit of a craftsman so he bought this Lame from breadtopia.com, removed the plastic handle and turned and attached a custom wooden handle and shipped it as a surprise yesterday. Time to get some dough going for a weekend bake!


----------



## Breadie

Boatboy24 said:


> I think I've lost my starter. Opened it up last night to find a gray liquid floating on top.


That's called "Hooch". Just pour it off. It won't hurt anything. Definitely not "Cocktail" grade alchohol.
It's natural for it to form in your starter.


----------



## ibglowin

Do not try and shave with that! LOL



Kraffty said:


> View attachment 67570
> 
> I received a pretty special belated birthday gift from a good friend......


----------



## Boatboy24

Kraffty said:


> View attachment 67570
> 
> I received a pretty special belated birthday gift from a good friend who has baked bread forever and is a wealth of information, whether asked for or not . He's also a bit of a craftsman so he bought this Lame from breadtopia.com, removed the plastic handle and turned and attached a custom wooden handle and shipped it as a surprise yesterday. Time to get some dough going for a weekend bake!



I dunno, Mike. Looks kinda Lame to me.


----------



## Kraffty

The instructions that came in the box specifically explained the pronounciation as "Llama" with the "a" being silent.... so I'm thinking... *LLM*.?...... that can't be easy to say......


----------



## Boatboy24

Kraffty said:


> The instructions that came in the box specifically explained the pronounciation as "Llama" with the "a" being silent.... so I'm thinking... *LLM*.?...... that can't be easy to say......



Which 'a'?


----------



## balatonwine

Kraffty said:


> The instructions that came in the box specifically explained the pronounciation as "Llama" with the "a" being silent.... so I'm thinking... *LLM*.?...... that can't be easy to say......



Llama in Spanish is more like "Yawma". Kind of... But not really. Try this:









Llama pronunciation in Spanish


How to say llama in Spanish? Pronunciation of llama with 4 audio pronunciations, 1 meaning, 15 translations, 23 sentences and more for llama.




www.howtopronounce.com


----------



## Kraffty

So the "L"s are silent also, heck we're down to *"M"* now..... this is getting easier by the minute.


----------



## balatonwine

Kraffty said:


> So the "L"s are silent also, heck we're down to *"M"* now..... this is getting easier by the minute.



It is easy to simply pronounce a Spanish word in Spanish... And ignore what a "package" says.

Seriously... You lived in So Cal. If a box came and said the "L" in La Jolla were silent, would you start to pronounce it "A Joa" and look more a tourist than the tourists who were pronouncing it La Joylla? 

And if you know how to pronounce "La Jolla" correctly, then you know how to pronounce "Llama" as well, as the "lla" in both are pronounced with a "Yah" like sound.


----------



## ibglowin

After a couple months off I am back in the baking mode. 2 loves Sour Dough. 

The first loaf is already half eaten!


----------



## Kraffty

those look really good! I made a couple of French bread loaves but mixed in a cup of my starter to add flavor. Spaghetti dinner tonight with a sauce made all day yesterday so garlic toast on the schedule.


----------



## ibglowin

I need to try a "fancy score" on my next bread cook!



Kraffty said:


> those look really good! I made a couple of French bread loaves but mixed in a cup of my starter to add flavor. Spaghetti dinner tonight with a sauce made all day yesterday so garlic toast on the schedule.


----------



## sour_grapes

I have been making that super-easy focaccia recipe that was promoted on WMT mid-summer ever since then. It is so easy and so tasty that I more or less abandoned my other bread efforts.

But.... we tire of all things in life. (Well, maybe _almost_ all things!  ) Anyway, I decided, not unlike Mike (@ibglowin) above, to go back to baking boules.

So, I made a boule of 1/2 K.A. bread flour, 1/2 K.A. whole wheat, fermented overnight, and cooked in the Dutch oven. I may not have that fancy "lame" of Mike (@Kraffty) above, but a couple of slashes with a sharp kitchen knife did not turn out too lame!


----------



## Boatboy24

Back on the horse, with a feeble attempt (my first) at Focaccia. Rosemary, olive oil and coarse sea salt. I need a way to get this out of the pan more easily - guess I'll try parchment next time.


----------



## Boatboy24

Another pic, after I sliced it.


----------



## ZebraB

On the bread lab's community college course suggested to make double the sourdough bread recipe. Then after the first rise put 1/2 in a proofing basket in the refrigerator to bake the next day and the other 1/2 make 2 pizza for that nights dinner. I was very skeptical that a bread recipe would make a good pizza. I gave it a try and OMG best homemade pizza ever. Really good structure despite my "you get what you get these days" bread flour at 10 - 11.5 protein. (likely the stretch and folds helped the structure). It also had more flavor than my 2 day refrigerator wait recipe. From now on, I will never do pizza dough any other way


----------



## balatonwine

Been so busy lately, I started to use bread making kits in a bag. And they actually work very well. Good bread.

For example (Translating from the German, it says basically "whole grain bread with yeast already added")




Of course, kit or all hand made, always cooked using our wood fired oven.









Simplicity


I am not really a Luddite. Having created or been a major investor in more than one IT company I certainly do promote and profit from technology. But I also do appreciate simplicity. And I love old…




stcoemgen.com


----------



## ibglowin

This mornings baking experiment. Sourdough bread using 100% KA bread flour. No whole wheat, no rye. Mrs IB loves it. Said *NOT* to give one of the loaves away. LOL

Will be doing this "experiment" again I think!


----------



## Boatboy24




----------



## ibglowin

I just did a simple cross and thats what it turned into! LOL



Boatboy24 said:


> View attachment 68256


----------



## Boatboy24

Back at it yesterday.


----------



## Kraffty

@Boatboy24 ..was anybody hurt when that loaf "Sploded!"
Love the grooves, are they created with Banningtons? spelling??


----------



## ibglowin

I have (believe it or not) never made any of the "easy focaccia bread" so today is the day. What is the minimum rise time needed? It says 8 hours but wondering if 4-5 would be enough or is more "better"? I could toss into the fridge but was hoping to bake it off tonight.


----------



## Boatboy24

Kraffty said:


> @Boatboy24 ..was anybody hurt when that loaf "Sploded!"
> Love the grooves, are they created with Banningtons? spelling??



Banneton? Yes. (I actually typed Banningtons into Google and Banneton came back) Something I picked up after reading Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast. Got 'em on Amazon, of course.


----------



## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> I have (believe it or not) never made any of the "easy focaccia bread" so today is the day. What is the minimum rise time needed? It says 8 hours but wondering if 4-5 would be enough or is more "better"? I could toss into the fridge but was hoping to bake it off tonight.
> 
> View attachment 68501



I am probably too late with my answer, but I have done 6 hours with good results.


----------



## sour_grapes

I went back to a boule today. Perhaps just a _touch_ overdone, but still nice:


----------



## Boatboy24

sour_grapes said:


> I went back to a boule today. Perhaps just a _touch_ overdone, but still nice:
> 
> View attachment 68536
> View attachment 68537



I am finding that with bread, sometimes 'a touch overdone' is just perfect.


----------



## Kraffty

First couple of loaves in a while tonight for me too and I made a couple of tweaks that got me much closer to the taste and texture I've missed so far. Standard stuff the same, 5.5 cups flour, 2.5 cups water, tablespoon salt but I used 3/4 cup of starter last fed this morning with whole wheat and then I added an additional 1/2 cup of an older un-fed starter (last fed about 3 or 4 weeks ago) for additional flavor. Lastly I've been cooking open on a stone, this time I used the stone at 450but covered the loaf with a large stainless bowl for 30 mins then 15 uncovered. Bigger flavor and the crust was thinner yet crisper. Will see if I can repeat results tomorrow. Additionally the second tonight one I stuck with the boule shape but didn't dust with flour and like the look much better.


----------



## Kraffty

sour_grapes said:


> I went back to a boule today. Perhaps just a _touch_ overdone, but still nice:
> 
> View attachment 68536
> View attachment 68537


The photo doesn't look over cooked at all once you lightened the exposure and dialed back the contrast and tint in the second one.


----------



## sour_grapes

Kraffty said:


> The photo doesn't look over cooked at all once you lightened the exposure and dialed back the contrast and tint in the second one.



Of course, what happened was that I turned the flash on for my phone for the second shot!


----------



## ZebraB

Has anyone have experience with cooking bread in a steam oven? Does it live up to the hype? It sounds intriguing, use steam for sous vide, proof bread and then cook with steam/bake and even can use it like an air fryer with convection. Almost sounds too good to be true. and concerned it might just turn out to be another kitchen countertop gadget.


----------



## ibglowin

Getting my fancy pants on this AM.......


----------



## Boatboy24

ZebraB said:


> Has anyone have experience with cooking bread in a steam oven? Does it live up to the hype? It sounds intriguing, use steam for sous vide, proof bread and then cook with steam/bake and even can use it like an air fryer with convection. Almost sounds too good to be true. and concerned it might just turn out to be another kitchen countertop gadget.



From what I've read in F,W,S,Y; cooking in a dutch oven allows you to simulate that without having to buy another appliance.


----------



## ZebraB

Boatboy24 said:


> From what I've read in F,W,S,Y; cooking in a dutch oven allows you to simulate that without having to buy another appliance.


I agree that dutch oven works well for bread making. Just hoping someone had experience with this so I could ask a few more questions


----------



## ZebraB

I lived in the south for many years and got to appreciate a good biscuit. This is a very good recipe and uses up the discard starter









Sourdough Biscuits - Damn Delicious


Sourdough Biscuits - Use up your "discarded" starter in these EPIC biscuits! With that sourdough tang, these biscuits are so flaky, so buttery + so so good.




damndelicious.net





Since I am too lazy to "shred cold butter". I use the cold cubed mixed in with the flour before adding the other ingredients similar to the following recipe (which is also good if you do NOT want sweet muffins)









Classic Blueberry Muffins Recipe


The perfect blueberry muffin is quick and easy to whip up on a Sunday morning, and beautiful to behold: domed and delicately crisp on top, with or without a crust of sparkling sugar. Most of all, it's loaded with the best summer berries—which should never, ever sink to the bottom.




www.seriouseats.com


----------



## ibglowin

Make ahead Sourdough Bread Stuffing for Thanksgiving. I snuck a few test bites. It's a keeper!


----------



## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> Make ahead Sourdough Bread Stuffing for Thanksgiving. I snuck a few test bites. It's a keeper!
> 
> View attachment 68706



Do I see green chiles in there?


----------



## ibglowin

No, but they would certainly work I think! Your probably seeing some chopped Italian parsley that was sprinkled on top or perhaps celery.




Boatboy24 said:


> Do I see green chiles in there?


----------



## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> No, but they would certainly work I think! Your probably seeing some chopped Italian parsley that was sprinkled on top or perhaps celery.



Ah, must be the celery. I'll be doing up my grandfather's stuffing recipe in the morning. First time I've ever made it, but got some tips from Dad. Even though it's my maternal grandfather's recipe, my dad makes it every year and it's one of my favorite things to eat.


----------



## sour_grapes

Tonight's attempt: I tried to make a chevron pattern with my slashes, but it only kinda worked:


----------



## ibglowin

Cranked out a couple more loaves this morning!


----------



## Yooper🍷

My white chocolate, walnut desert bread


----------



## CTDrew

Cheeseburger Pizza from home made pizza dough! Sauce is ketchup and mustard mixed. Toppings are hamburger, mozzarella, and pickles. No bacon on this run, but it would have been a great addition!


----------



## ibglowin




----------



## ibglowin

Does it count if I only baked it but didn't actually make it? LOL


----------



## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> Does it count if I only baked it but didn't actually make it? LOL



Not nearly as much!


----------



## CTDrew

Mix of einkorn, einkorn whole wheat, and high gluten bread flour baked with a water bath to get them crusty! Will be a nice side for our onion soup tonight.


----------



## ibglowin

They are like your children. All different........


----------



## sour_grapes

Another boule... yawn?

But I am still liking it!


----------



## CTDrew

Potato bread which will be a companion for tonight’s steak dinner!


----------



## ibglowin

Making some early Xmas presents this morning. Got the bread lame out and trying a new design. Experimenting with a 50/50 mix of AP/Bread flour. All KA as it seems to be back in stock these days.


----------



## Yooper🍷

Today’s baking. 2 Saskatchewan starter sourdough loaves and one overnight rye bread for my homemade pastrami.


----------



## CTDrew

Small boule for dinner tonight! Gotta get my energy up for snowmageddon tonight here in the northeast haha


----------



## sour_grapes

Another boule.


----------



## bstnh1

A couple more loaves of Peasant bread.


----------



## GreginND

Sourdough butternut squash rolls.


----------



## Yooper🍷

Interesting situation.. I have been making a batch of 2 sour dough loaves every week for the past 4 years this month Give one away and eat the other. Started with a starter my son in law got going in Saskatchewan then 2 years later I got a starter from Ischia Italy and alternated them then about 6 months ago got a starter from San Francisco And rolled that in to my alternating schedule. i use the same recipe every week and found all three have different qualities in taste, texture, smell etc (the San Fran is definitely more sour) But one thing stands out is the SAS and Ischia loaves will start to show the green mold spots at day 6 or 7 but the San Francisco loaf will go almost 2 weeks. interesting point.


----------



## Boatboy24

Yooper🍷 said:


> Interesting situation.. I have been making a batch of 2 sour dough loaves every week for the past 4 years this month Give one away and eat the other. Started with a starter my son in law got going in Saskatchewan then 2 years later I got a starter from Ischia Italy and alternated them then about 6 months ago got a starter from San Francisco And rolled that in to my alternating schedule. i use the same recipe every week and found all three have different qualities in taste, texture, smell etc (the San Fran is definitely more sour) But one thing stands out is the SAS and Ischia loaves will start to show the green mold spots at day 6 or 7 but the San Francisco loaf will go almost 2 weeks. interesting point.



Makes sense to me. The more sour taste would indicate more acidity (at least in my mind), which would likely be a less hospitable environment for mold. Eventually though, it'll make a home.


----------



## bstnh1

Boatboy24 said:


> Makes sense to me. The more sour taste would indicate more acidity (at least in my mind), which would likely be a less hospitable environment for mold. Eventually though, it'll make a home.


Probably true. I don't see much mold on old lemons. But old strawberries .... yes!


----------



## ibglowin

If it‘s Sunday it‘s fresh sourdough bread day!


----------



## Kraffty

Getting pretty fancy Mike, looks gorgeous


----------



## GreenEnvy22

I've been making bread for a few years, not often, maybe 5-6 loaves a year. Usually it's when I have a bunch of spent grain from a batch of beer, and need something to use it for.

But I've also made some sour dough and rye bread.

Next week I'll have a bunch of spent grains that are heavy on peated barley. I'm interested to see what I can make using that.


----------



## hounddawg

Boatboy24 said:


> There are all sorts of great things that can be done with the spent grains and liquids from beer. Been a long time since I've brewed anything, but spent grain bread is to die for!


pardon the stupidity of my question ,, but can any of this be done with cornbread, and yes I'm am from the south side of the Mason Dickson line ,, so forgive my lack of grey matter ,,,
Dawg


----------



## hounddawg

sour_grapes said:


> I had it on "indirect heat," as best as I could. That is, the coals occupied most of one half of the 22" Weber, and the DO occupied most of the other half. I am sure that there was more radiant (and possibly convective) heat delivered to the bottom of the DO than would have been the case in a normal oven.
> 
> Last time I did this, I put down some ceramic pieces (from a broken pizza stone) under the DO. Not sure if it made any difference before, but, in any event, I didn't think to do that yesterday.
> 
> C'est la vie. Beats the hell out of cranking a 450F oven in my kitchen on the warmest day of the year so far!


small off set stick smoker would cure that,, 
just my 1/2 cent worth
Dawg


----------



## Boatboy24

hounddawg said:


> pardon the stupidity of my question ,, but can any of this be done with cornbread, and yes I'm am from the south side of the Mason Dickson line ,, so forgive my lack of grey matter ,,,
> Dawg



I honestly didn't know and had to look it up. But sure enough, you can: Spent Grain Cornbread - Super Foods Life


----------



## Kraffty

Slashing Inspired by Ibglowin.


----------



## hounddawg

Boatboy24 said:


> I honestly didn't know and had to look it up. But sure enough, you can: Spent Grain Cornbread - Super Foods Life


first your thread is intriguing, i wondered because, like bread, cornbread has both the corn grain and wheat grain, Thank You,
Dawg


----------



## Mike Parisi

My Italian bread from yesterday.


----------



## CTDrew

Deli style rye for Christmas breakfast.


----------



## 1d10t

I make a 40% whole wheat and am still tweaking. I just moved to another house so I'm getting used to a different oven. I make half loaves. I keep half the dough refrigerated for about a week. This is the refrigerated half.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

I made some rolls today, used spent grains from a beer mash that was 1/4 heavy peated barley. 
I really like it, I have a lot of spent grains left so I'll do a couple more batches of bread and tweak a few things. Maybe use peated beer instead of water in the recipe.


----------



## sour_grapes

JAB (Just Another Boule)


----------



## ibglowin

Going to give sourdough baguettes a try this weekend. Researching recipes and baking techniques until then. Got me a bakers couche, a fancy baguette flipping board and even a silicon mini baguette tray for the oven. Will post some pics depending on the success/failure of this! LOL


----------



## Kraffty

ibglowin said:


> Going to give sourdough baguettes a try this weekend. Researching recipes and baking techniques until then. Got me a bakers couche, a fancy baguette flipping board and even a silicon mini baguette tray for the oven. Will post some pics depending on the success/failure of this! LOL



..so bread sticks basically.... looking forward to your notes...


----------



## ibglowin

I am going to shoot more for something I could make a sandwich out of if need be for this bake. Will try the mini baguette next time.




Found this Video today. Might try and follow it to some extent.



This one was pretty good as well. Not sourdough but good overall baguette baking skills.






Kraffty said:


> ..so bread sticks basically.... looking forward to your notes...


----------



## Boatboy24

Uh oh. Mike's got a couche. It's getting real now!


----------



## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> I am going to shoot more for something I could make a sandwich out of if need be for this bake. Will try the mini baguette next time.
> 
> View attachment 69923
> 
> 
> Found this Video today. Might try and follow it to some extent.
> 
> 
> 
> This one was pretty good as well. Not sourdough but good overall baguette baking skills.





Boatboy24 said:


> Uh oh. Mike's got a couche. It's getting real now!



I still like @Yooper🍷 's solution: The Bread Thread


----------



## sour_grapes

Side note: I can't believe @Yooper🍷 got a glass of wine as part of his avatar! Nicely done!

Edit: Not avatar, I meant part of his _user name._


----------



## ibglowin

Boatboy24 said:


> Uh oh. Mike's got a couche. It's getting real now!




Yea! LOL I had no idea what it was. Sounded like something Charo would say once upon a time........


----------



## ibglowin

FWIW I think an old cotton pillow case would work just as well!



sour_grapes said:


> I still like @Yooper🍷 's solution: The Bread Thread


----------



## Yooper🍷

Not sourdough but my white peasant bread. Just like Italy (but unlike Italy salt added). Similar to Carrabbas dipping bread.


----------



## bstnh1

Yooper🍷 said:


> Not sourdough but my white peasant bread. Just like Italy (but unlike Italy salt added). Similar to Carrabbas dipping bread. View attachment 69936


I just discovered this bread a few weeks ago. Easy to make and it's great got toast and sandwiches!!


----------



## Kraffty

ibglowin said:


> I am going to shoot more for something I could make a sandwich out of if need be for this bake. Will try the mini baguette next time.
> 
> View attachment 69923
> 
> 
> Found this Video today. Might try and follow it to some extent.
> 
> 
> 
> This one was pretty good as well. Not sourdough but good overall baguette baking skills.




Mike, a friend makes sourdough loaves almost daily and I called him last night to pick his brain. I liked that he said "if you make a lot of bread you'll eventually develop your own style and technique". He sent a couple of pics I'm sharing that make a lot of sense. He's in the process of making a version with a base board with dowel holes where you can move the sides to different widths depending on what size loaves you want to shape. I think I'll build one too and let you know how it works out.


----------



## GreginND

While I certainly love a good sourdough with all the flavor of a long slow fermentation, sometimes you just want fresh homemade bread quickly. It can still be simple and taste. Here are some simple quick baguettes I made and my video of the process.


----------



## Kraffty

I need a couple of these!


----------



## ibglowin

1st. attempt. Need to work on my technique (LOL) and I used the POS LG Oven........ 

Had it set to 475 and best it could do was 425 and it dropped to 400 during the cook. I had to rotate 4 times or they would burn at the back of the oven where the heat comes out. Put a CI pan on the lowest rack in the oven and poured about a cup of cold water in it once I got the pan inserted.

They should have been done at 16-20 min at 450F but needed 30 mins to get to this doneness. Used the same recipe I have been using for Boule's. Smells amazing in the kitchen!


----------



## Kraffty

I asked Lori for suggestions for something new for dinner tonight, she came up with shrimp bisque in bread bowls! Started the bowls yesterday and baked this morning. Now just have to make up a seafood stock and I'm 90% of the way there! These are right at 7" diameter.


----------



## ibglowin

Awesome looking. Would work equally well for NE Clam Chowder!



Kraffty said:


> I asked Lori for suggestions for something new for dinner tonight, she came up with shrimp bisque in bread bowls! Started the bowls yesterday and baked this morning. Now just have to make up a seafood stock and I'm 90% of the way there! These are right at 7" diameter.
> View attachment 70014


----------



## Rice_Guy

trying to copy Mom’s cranberry bread, this one included diced orange peel and it smells right


----------



## Kraffty

I've a question for the more experienced bakers here. Until yesterday's loaves I've been unsatisfied with my bread coming out with a crust that was overly thick and almost too hard. I just realized the only difference was this batch was made with Gold Medal Bread Flour vs. Bluebird Flour that I've been using all along. *Can the flour make that much difference?* I've just assumed flour is flour but it seems that's probably all wrong.


----------



## Rice_Guy

@Kraffty ,,, Flour is not flour. Industry has bread flour/ Durham noodles with a high protein and cake flour with a low protein ,,, and general retail has all purpose flour which is a compromise not being the best for cakes or bread.
the gold medal will give more structure in bread ,, and for laughs now, try it in a soft pastry to see what gummy texture is, ,,, (personal texture preference I like to take washed wheat gluten and add it to waffles to make them nice and gummy/ firm)
..... for cranberry bread I was trying to build a softer/ longer shelf life so that had two parts all purpose flour with one part tapioca flour with no gluten.


----------



## bakervinyard

@Kraffty, I'm a retired baker and the amount of protein in the flour makes all the difference. You want to use a flour with about 12% protein. Try checking out the manufacturers web site. You should be able to get the information there. On a positive note the breads i see on this thread look really good. I've worked with some "professional" bakers and they can't make bread that good.


----------



## bstnh1

I stick with King Arthur bread flour for all my white bread baking. It's 12.7% protein and always works well for me. I found an on-line comment where someone called Bluebird and asked about protein content . The response was that their bread flour is "somewhere between 12 and 14%" but also stated they don't have a protein analyzer. Sounds iffy to me.


----------



## Yooper🍷

For the past 5 years I’ve been using *Heritage Artisan Patent Wheat Flour *from Bay State Milling Co. Ma. Sold by GFS. 12.5%. And have had excellent results. Any problems with the bread has been my fault. I buy it by 50lb bag. A 50lb bag will fill 2 five gal food grade bucket.


----------



## Kraffty

Thanks for all the info everyone, I guess I'll try being a bit more careful which details I choose to ignore in the future. Think I'll give a full size loaf a try today to see If I can repeat the successful version. Thanks again


----------



## ibglowin

I have used Bluebird and had zero issues. Its in high demand here in the Southwest and is coveted for use in making Indian Frybread and other southwestern delights. They are a tiny operation in comparison to King Author and they certainly don't have the budget they do. 

To see just how small Bluebird is Check out this short video:






bstnh1 said:


> I found an on-line comment where someone called Bluebird and asked about protein content . The response was that their bread flour is "somewhere between 12 and 14%" but also stated they don't have a protein analyzer. Sounds iffy to me.


----------



## Kraffty

I've been wanting to try their fry bread recipe, have you given that one a shot yet?


----------



## VinesnBines

*Can the flour make that much difference?* I've just assumed flour is flour but it seems that's probably all wrong. 

Absolutely! Flour makes all the difference in any baked goods. Flour is not just flour! We have been using White Lily Self Rising for biscuits and White Lily Bread or King Arthur Bread for yeast baking. With COVID we could not get ANY bread flour so we had to buy gluten to add to regular flour to try to replicate bread flour.

Now we have been able to get White Lily Bread and King Arthur Bread so we are getting back to the normal baking.

So Kraffty, try different brands until you find the brand you like; then lose your mind when your local store stops carrying it.


----------



## ibglowin

LOL Not yet. Like wine, so many to try and only so much time. I could be in big demand in these parts if I mastered Frybread as well as Sopapillas!



Kraffty said:


> I've been wanting to try their fry bread recipe, have you given that one a shot yet?


----------



## Rice_Guy

the purpose of high gluten in bread is to form an elastic network which will trap gas from yeast and allow bubble formation. Next ,,, bread is judged as higher quality if the bubble structure is uniform, for this we work/ develop/ hydrate the gluten creating a rubbery matrix so that it is effective at trapping CO2 and producing small uniform bubbles.


ibglowin said:


> I have used Bluebird and had zero issues. Its in high demand here in the Southwest and is coveted for use in making Indian Frybread and other southwestern delights.


The fry bread I have had, is basically a batter with low gluten development which is quickly heated which creates steam which is trapped in a starch that gelatinizes at 65C. It does not rely on gluten therefore Bluebird should be an all purpose flour.
_Now for fun I ought to pull the artificial gums off the shelf and create/ photograph examples of rice flour (no gluten) with baguettes or pretzels or . . ..._
If your store only has all purpose flour you‘all might try adding zanthan gum to the all purpose flour again for building elastic bubbles. Zanthan should be in the “health” aisle since the market is mainly gluten intolerance.


----------



## ibglowin

*"But it is Bluebird Flour that is their No. 1 seller, particularly in New Mexico and Arizona. Tanner says that Bluebird Flour, exceptional in its elasticity, has become the staple for the Navajo and Hopi people: “They prefer our flour for the making of fry bread.”*









Cortez's Bluebird Flour stands up to the test of frybread


Our human sense of smell, the olfactory system, holds deep memories for each of us, memories not easily retrieved through our other senses. That...




the-journal.com








Rice_Guy said:


> The fry bread I have had, is basically a batter with low gluten development which is quickly heated which creates steam which is trapped in a starch that gelatinizes at 65C. It does not rely on gluten therefore Bluebird should be an all purpose flour.
> _Now for fun I ought to pull the artificial gums off the shelf and create/ photograph examples of rice flour (no gluten) with baguettes or pretzels or . . ..._
> If your store only has all purpose flour you‘all might try adding zanthan gum to the all purpose flour again for building elastic bubbles. Zanthan should be in the “health” aisle since the market is mainly gluten intolerance.


----------



## Boatboy24




----------



## Snafflebit

I'm proud of the oven spring on this loaf. I am still learning how to score the loaf, deeper seems to be better.
Jumping on the sourdough bandwagon


----------



## Kraffty

Looks like a great start!


----------



## ceeaton

Kraffty said:


> Thanks for all the info everyone, I guess I'll try being a bit more careful which details I choose to ignore in the future. Think I'll give a full size loaf a try today to see If I can repeat the successful version. Thanks again


When you get to baking up some more pizza, try some KA Sir Lancelot flour (14.2% gluten) and if you can't find any PM me your address and I'll send you 5 lbs or so (just ordered a 50 lb sack, 47 cents/lb). It works great for pizza dough (especially if fermented in the fridge for a few days) and when making rye/whole wheat bread (like sourdough), just substitute it for the bread or regular flour component in those recipes, the extra gluten helps make up for the lack of gluten in most whole grain flours and you'll get a really good rise.


----------



## ibglowin

Got Baguettes?


----------



## sour_grapes

J.A.B.


----------



## Yooper🍷

Had to make another with my San Francisco starter. The first two found another of our friends home. This one is ours!


----------



## GreenEnvy22

Made a quick french loaf this morning.


----------



## ibglowin

One of these things is not like the other!







The little loaves were baked in our counter top WOLF oven. The burnt ones were in the LG.

I am at wits end with my POS LG Range. Anybody have a range that they love for baking bread?

Gas or electric I have both connections. The LG has now died for the 3rd time in 2 months. It blows the thermal fuse every time I try and use CONV Bake. Doesn't matter what temp I have it set at. 450 (blows). 425 (blows). Each time about 35 mins into the bake. I now keep 2-3 fuses on hand at all times. $6 part that takes me about 15 mins to swap out. This is an electric range that Consumer Reports rates as one of the top. But if you look at the reviews of people who actually own one nobody recommends it. Not only is the oven and its design horrible, if you just walk by the oven and bump it in the slightest you can accidentally turn on an element and possibly set the house on fire if anything should be sitting on top of the oven.

Its out of warranty and I am ready to cut my losses. This thing sells for $1900 MSRP. I think I snagged it at Thanksgiving when they have the big appliance sales for like $1300. Everything baked either burns or comes out undercooked in the middle.





ones


----------



## GreenEnvy22

We bought this one a couple of years ago, love it.





MGS8880DS Maytag Range Canada - Sale! Best Price, Reviews and Specs - Toronto, Ottawa, Montréal, Vancouver, Calgary


Maytag MGS8880DS Range, Gas Range, 30 inch, Self Clean, Convection, 5 Burners, Sealed Burners (Gas), Warming Drawer, 5.8 cubic ft, Slide In, Stainless Steel colour Canada




www.canadianappliance.ca




Today I decided to see if the temperature was still accurate.


----------



## ibglowin

Did some googling and found another owner with the exact same oven and issue so its not just me it seems. He ended up having to pull his range out from the wall so it got more air circulation and that seemed to stop the issue so I guess I will give that a shot as well as maybe try a small fan to help blow some cooler air down the backside. Just replaced the fuse for the 3rd time. Getting faster with each time. New record today. 10 minutes. I figure each time I replace a fuse myself I'm saving ~$150-250 in service calls and repair. Heck the trip charge alone these days is $75 minimum. I figure I will have saved enough in repair bills to pay for a new oven real soon! Will start doing some research for the next time the big box stores have their major appliance sale. Right now everything is full MSRP.


----------



## Boatboy24

ibglowin said:


> Did some googling and found another owner with the exact same oven and issue so its not just me it seems. He ended up having to pull his range out from the wall so it got more air circulation and that seemed to stop the issue so I guess I will give that a shot as well as maybe try a small fan to help blow some cooler air down the backside. Just replaced the fuse for the 3rd time. Getting faster with each time. New record today. 10 minutes. I figure each time I replace a fuse myself I'm saving ~$150-250 in service calls and repair. Heck the trip charge alone these days is $75 minimum. I figure I will have saved enough in repair bills to pay for a new oven real soon! Will start doing some research for the next time the big box stores have their major appliance sale. Right now everything is full MSRP.



The Presidents' Day sales will probably start next week.


----------



## Kraffty

Mike, I can't speak to your exact situation, oven, stove combo but I've had my GE electric double wall ovens now for over a year and absolutely love them. Too bad they don't make an electric oven with gas cooktop. Best of luck.


----------



## ibglowin

Thanks for the vote on the GE. If I may ask is yours a "Profile" or regular GE? Does the oven inside have the heating element inside the back wall like this?





They actually do make "dual fuel" Ranges these days with gas cooktop and electric oven. They are $2-3K in price. I would pay $3K in a heartbeat if I could bake a loaf of bread and not burn it or blow a fuse each time. Honestly I think this new design with the heating element in the back wall is crap but all the manufacturers seem to have gone to that on the higher end ovens. IMHO the heat needs to come from the bottom for bake and top for broil. Heat rises as we all know and having a heating element inside a wall placed 2/3 of the way UP from the bottom is a horrible design defect IMHO. Nothing browns (bread wise) if you use the lower shelf below the element. You place bread at the element or just above it and it burns as all the heat is coming out of a 6" opening with a small fan to blow the heat out in CONV mode.

Thanks for your input.



Kraffty said:


> Mike, I can't speak to your exact situation, oven, stove combo but I've had my GE electric double wall ovens now for over a year and absolutely love them. Too bad they don't make an electric oven with gas cooktop. Best of luck.


----------



## Kraffty

It's the standard style, Not Cafe or Profile. No back fan or heating element. It does heat from both the top and the bottom which seems to really make the heat uniform. Seems a tiny bit hotter in the back half, I do turn things half way through cooking when I remember but really not necessary. Have a dedicated 50 amp breaker powering it and not a blip even with both running on high.









GE® 30" Built-In Double Wall Oven|^|JT3500SFSS


GE Appliances is your home for the best kitchen appliances, home products, parts and accessories, and support.




www.geappliances.com


----------



## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> Thanks for the vote on the GE. If I may ask is yours a "Profile" or regular GE? Does the oven inside have the heating element inside the back wall like this?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input.



Is that a heating element, or just the convection fan?


----------



## ibglowin

It is both. There is no element on the bottom but there is one on top (broil)



sour_grapes said:


> Is that a heating element, or just the convection fan?


----------



## Boatboy24

Kraffty said:


> Mike, I can't speak to your exact situation, oven, stove combo but I've had my GE electric double wall ovens now for over a year and absolutely love them. Too bad they don't make an electric oven with gas cooktop. Best of luck.



I have an electric oven with a gas cooktop. "Old school" heating element in the bottom of the oven and another on top for the broiler, but gas burners on the stove. It's GE Profile. Over the last few years, we've replaced our other GE Profile appliances with Kitchenaid. So far, very happy with the fridge and dishwasher. They certainly weren't the cheapest, but you can also spend much, much more. When the oven/range goes, I'll replace with a Kitchenaid dual fuel.


----------



## ibglowin

Just looked at that. You see this is how you bake evenly in an electric oven. heating element on the bottom. Those are almost impossible to find these days. The little counter top WOLF has a heating element on the bottom and top and it cooks perfectly. Its just small and tops out at 450. 








Kraffty said:


> It's the standard style, Not Cafe or Profile. No back fan or heating element. It does heat from both the top and the bottom which seems to really make the heat uniform. Seems a tiny bit hotter in the back half, I do turn things half way through cooking when I remember but really not necessary. Have a dedicated 50 amp breaker powering it and not a blip even with both running on high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GE® 30" Built-In Double Wall Oven|^|JT3500SFSS
> 
> 
> GE Appliances is your home for the best kitchen appliances, home products, parts and accessories, and support.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.geappliances.com


----------



## Kraffty

Boatboy24 said:


> I have an electric oven with a gas cooktop. "Old school" heating element in the bottom of the oven and another on top for the broiler, but gas burners on the stove. It's GE Profile. Over the last few years, we've replaced our other GE Profile appliances with Kitchenaid. So far, very happy with the fridge and dishwasher. They certainly weren't the cheapest, but you can also spend much, much more. When the oven/range goes, I'll replace with a Kitchenaid dual fuel.



We looked (I actually coveted them) repeatedly at the Kitchenaid but just had too hard of a time convincing myself to spend the money for matching fridge, oven, cooktop and dishwasher. Maybe an additional 8 to $10,000 total verses the GE. Sounds like the performance justifies the expense though.


----------



## Boatboy24

Kraffty said:


> We looked (I actually coveted them) repeatedly at the Kitchenaid but just had too hard of a time convincing myself to spend the money for matching fridge, oven, cooktop and dishwasher. Maybe an additional 8 to $10,000 total verses the GE. Sounds like the performance justifies the expense though.



8-10k? Wow. Yep, that's a ton. We've done one at a time, so maybe it didn't seem so much. But yeah, as I recall, a lot of dishwashers were 5-600 and we spent 900. At the time, it seemed like a lot, but I read a ton of reviews that supported it (and it was recommended by our plumber). The other good dishwasher (don't recall other appliances) at the time was the Bosch. One piece of advice that both plumbers and appliance sales people told us was stay away from Samsung.


----------



## sour_grapes

I see absolutely no need to match appliances by brand! I have a Bosch D/W, a Kitchenaid fridge, and a Bluestar range, and a Panasonic drawer microwave. Each appliance was the best for our purpose for that application.

Edit: Oops, my drawer microwave is a Sharp.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

I almost consider it a matter of pride that not a single appliance in my kitchen matches brands  We've got almost everything over to stainless now, just the 16+ year old microwave left to replace, but it's an LG fridge, kitchenaid dishwasher, maytag stove, panasonic microwave.

It's funny, for my homebrew I much prefer to use electric, but for cooking/baking I much prefer gas (and then there is smoking and grilling where I much prefer charcoal).

And yea, I'd be wary of buying any major samsung appliance. They, most of any brands, seem to be all in on the planned obsolescence.

One thing I would suggest, is if possible get a stovetop that is stainless around the burners. Our stove is painted black on the cooking surface (stainless everywhere else) and we burned something onto it when it was a couple months old and have never been able to get it clean. With Stainless I could take a scouring pad to it, but with enamel the most I've been brave enough to try is barkeepers friend and oven cleaner. Both helped but didn't get it totally off.


----------



## justsipn

OK...I'm really hoping someone can give me some advice here. I desperately want to be able to make good bread and it's one type of cooking that I have not been able to master. I've tried white bread, wheat bread...this weekend I tried Brioche. I've tried multiple recipes, read articles on line and actually watched a Masterclass on it.

My problem is, I can not get the bread to rise properly so it's not a dense biscuit consistency. Typically, I can get the bread to double in size the first time it rises. Then, when I punch it down and put in the bread pans, I can not get it to rise again like all the recipes say it should so that it's a nice light fluffy bread. I've tried leaving it on top of the stove covered up. I've tried putting it in a slightly warmed oven. I just can not get it to the consistency I want.

I'm jealous of the pictures of the breads you are making.

What could I possibly be doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## sour_grapes

Not sure, @justsipn . I punch down after lunch (~1 pm), and then let it proof until late afternoon, say 4 or 5 pm.

What kind of yeast are you using?


----------



## justsipn

sour_grapes said:


> Not sure, @justsipn . I punch down after lunch (~1 pm), and then let it proof until late afternoon, say 4 or 5 pm.
> 
> What kind of yeast are you using?


I've tried both Redstar Active dry yeast and fleischmanns bread machine yeast. I don't use a bread machine, but it's what my wife picked up unfortunately.

But, I have the same problem with either. Any recipe I use says to let it rise 1-2 hours the second time. To short of time?


----------



## sour_grapes

justsipn said:


> I've tried both Redstar Active dry yeast and fleischmanns bread machine yeast.



I use Redstar. I have their quickrise and their regular Active, like you. I use the quickrise on same-day bread (focaccia) and regular on next-day bread. I have no idea if it matters! 



> But, I have the same problem with either. Any recipe I use says to let it rise 1-2 hours the second time. To short of time?



I think maybe too short. It depends on temperature, etc., but I like to go 3. But if I go too long, I get large, rustic bubbles.


----------



## Bkat

justsipn said:


> OK...I'm really hoping someone can give me some advice here. I desperately want to be able to make good bread and it's one type of cooking that I have not been able to master. I've tried white bread, wheat bread...this weekend I tried Brioche. I've tried multiple recipes, read articles on line and actually watched a Masterclass on it.
> 
> My problem is, I can not get the bread to rise properly so it's not a dense biscuit consistency. Typically, I can get the bread to double in size the first time it rises. Then, when I punch it down and put in the bread pans, I can not get it to rise again like all the recipes say it should so that it's a nice light fluffy bread. I've tried leaving it on top of the stove covered up. I've tried putting it in a slightly warmed oven. I just can not get it to the consistency I want.
> 
> I'm jealous of the pictures of the breads you are making.
> 
> What could I possibly be doing wrong?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Breadmaking is a lot like winemaking. On the surface, it is very simple. But as you go deeper, it gets more complex. Until you reach a point that you find it to be simple after all. 

For ages I wrestled with trying to make a decent loaf. I made enough Louisville Sluggers to equip a baseball team. Then suddenly something just clicked. Now I can do it in my sleep and turn out an acceptable, if not quite decent, loaf I'm proud of. 

A good place to start is the no-knead route. Something like this. No-Knead Bread Recipe I've stored this basic technique in the back of my head and deviated from it over time. I forgo the cast iron Le Creuset and just invert a big steel mixing bowl over the loaf. It works fine. 

Bread is essentially flour, water, salt and yeast. Use decent quality ingredients for all four (and yes, water matters) and you're almost there. Then the more you do it, the more you pick up on subtle things like the effect of ambient temperature, humidity, etc. I'm bad in that I barely measure and go by feel. But once you get the basic dynamics, riff on that and use different types of flour, add ingredients (herbs, etc.) replace some water with milk or wine, or even add oil. (But then remember to cut back on the water.) All can work.

As for your question about rising, either your yeast is bad or the room temperature is too low. If the latter, give it more time or put it in a warmer place (like an oven that isn't on) and, if the yeast is alive it will eventually rise. Remember, your eyes are a better guide than any recipe book.

I make no claim to be an expert and our current oven is pretty bad. But when you consider some bakers made exceptional bread with a wood-fired oven which has very little fine tuning of temperature for centuries, you'll be fine. 

Good luck!


----------



## justsipn

Bkat said:


> As for your question about rising, either your yeast is bad or the room temperature is too low.


I'll buy yeast and use it right away. So, I'm assuming that's not it. If it's cold in the house, I saw where some people will turn their oven on "warm" just for a few minutes, shut it off them put the loaves in there to rise. The other night I had the fire place going which gets the house very warm, so I just covered them with a cloth and set on the counter. Maybe my issue is just not waiting long enough. But, it sure seems like the second rise just doesn't have anywhere close to the umph the first one does and then it never seems to rise anymore while baking like I hear people talk about.


----------



## Bkat

Ideal proofing temperature is around 75-80 degrees with humidity, As you slip below that, rise time increases. Not a bad thing necessarily. It'll just take longer. If it's rising the first time, it should bounce back after punch down. Likewise, if the dough is responding properly, when you put it into an oven with moisture (some use a pan of hot water on the bottom rack) you should get nice oven spring. If the dough hasn't risen enough, hoping the oven rise picks up the slack never works. 

Just remember, you can't rush the process. Those little yeasts like to work at their own tempo. Let them work at their own pace and they will thank you.


----------



## ibglowin

I am not an expert baker by any means but if you want a 2nd rise as big as the 1st I would think you would have to add a bit of sugar to your dough. Otherwise the yeast only have what's in the flour to work with. My sourdough pizza dough takes about 3-4 hours to double in size (and I add 1/2tsp Fleischmann's Active Yeast as well as one cup active starter) and that is sitting in my LG Oven which has a Proof setting (80 degrees and the only thing that works well with that oven). 2nd rise is not as big as the 1st even after another 3 hours so to me its running out of food at that point.

When making sourdough for bread I start the dough around 1130AM and get it into the proofing oven by noon. I let it sit until around 2PM and then start on the stretch and turns every hour on the hour. By 5PM it has come together nicely and has almost doubled in size. After that I form it into either Boules or Baguettes and into cold storage it goes overnight.

Next morning the oven gets turned on for 30min or so past preheat and then the bread gets baked from a cold start and the Boules will easily double in size in the oven as well as the baguettes.


----------



## Kraffty

purely a rookie thought here, doesn't the amount of moisture in your dough play into the oven spring (growth?) because of steam while baking? A friend and experienced bread baker chides me constantly for not weighing my ingredients. He says there is no way to get consistent results with out being very very accurate and fine tuning your recipes to your altitude, average temps and humidity.


----------



## ibglowin

I think moisture affects texture more than anything. The rise is CO2 driven for the most part.

I agree on the weighing part. Flour compacts (a lot) Just like winemaking if you want to take your bread making to the next level use more accurate tools than just your eyeball!









Winter to summer yeast baking


Do you ever have trouble with a much-loved yeast recipe suddenly starting to misbehave? Maybe your baguettes, always shaped so nicely, mysteriously fall flat. Or the dough for your favorite weekly sandwich bread, usually so easy to knead, is suddenly unbearably sticky. Plus your shaped loaf...




www.kingarthurbaking.com


----------



## Bkat

Kraffty said:


> He says there is no way to get consistent results with out being very very accurate...


I've read this too and would say, when learning, following the directions is usually the best way to ensure good results, or to at least get a sense of what works and what doesn't before you deviate from them. That said, I don't measure with precision (aside from keeping salt at 1/2tsp/1 cup flour) and seem to get good consistent results. It's more reliance on the tactile; knowing how the dough should feel, look, act, etc. This way may not be for everyone and could be more problematic if one were mixing up 100 pounds of dough then in making a 3 pound boule. Like with wine, there are makers who approach things in a very laboratory-like manner and others who are far more laissez-faire. Neither is necessarily wrong and both ways can yield excellent results.

But yes, dough moisture is critical. Although back to the question of the dough not rising after punch down, it sounds less like a moisture issue and more of an ambient temperature one if the first rise was good. Sugar shouldn't be needed to jumpstart the process after punchdown. Justsipn, let us know how your future bread baking efforts go.


----------



## Sailor323

I have been making French bread for a few years. Before my wife died, she made it fresh every day. Her bread was excellent. It was yeasty and had nice holes in the crumb and a terrific crust. Her recipe was based on Julia Child's recipe. After my wife died, I began to play with making French Bread. For a while, I used her recipe exactly as she wrote it then returned to Julia's recipe. My most recent method yields an outstanding bread, better than my wife's or Julia's, in my opinion. It's somewhat involved and well worth the effort. Like my wife's bread, there is an overnight stage. Unlike her bread, the overnight stage is for a poolish or sponge, not the the entire dough. Here's the recipe. I highly recommend weighing the ingredients. I do not use the ice cube method for steam but use an atomizer to spray mist into the oven every 3 minute for the first 9 minute. I do not divide into baquettes, I prefer making a bâtard. Total bake time is about 25 minutes. 
CLASSIC FRENCH BAGUETTE

For the Poolish
89 gr (3/4 cup) bread flour
89 gr (6 TBSP + 1 tsp) filtered water, slightly warm (about 90 F, 32 C)
1 gr (1/4 tsp) Red Star Platinum Yeast or Red Star Quick-Rise Yeast
For the Final Dough
209 gr (1 3/4 cup) bread flour
62 gr (2.2 oz, 1/2 cup) all-purpose flour
163 gr (1/2 cup + 3 TBSP) filtered water, slightly warm (about 90 F, 32 C)
1 gr (1/4 tsp) Red Star Platinum Yeast or Red Star Quick-Rise Yeast
6 gr (1 1/4 tsp) Morton Kosher salt (use the same amount by weight of other kinds of salt.

Make the Poolish: The night before making your baguettes or at least 6 hours before, make the poolish. In a large mixing bowl, combine the ingredients for the poolish. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and let it stand at room temperature for at least 6 hours, but preferably 8-10 hours.
Combine the Dough: Add the rest of the ingredients for the baguette dough into the bowl with the poolish. Stir until well combined. It will appear as if there is not enough liquid at first, but as you work it together it will become a sticky dough. You may need to use your hands to knead it slightly to hydrate all the flour. As soon as all of the flour is hydrated and you have a shaggy dough with no dry spots, cover the bowl with a piece of plastic wrap and let it set at room temperature for 30 minutes.
Stretch and Fold: After the dough has rested for 30 minutes, you will do a series of three stretch and folds with the dough. With the dough still in the bowl, lightly dampen your hand (this will prevent the dough from sticking) and pull on one side of the dough and stretch it up and then fold it down over the top of the dough. Rotate the bowl 90 degrees and do the same with the next side. Do this again until you have stretched all four sides of the dough up and over on itself. Cover the bowl and let it rest for 30 more minutes. Stretch and fold the dough for the second round. Cover and let rest for 30 more minutes. Stretch and fold for the third round. Cover the dough and let it rest for 30 more minutes. This is a two hour process from when the dough is mixed to when it is ready to be shaped. Four 30 minute resting periods with three stretch and folds in between.
Prep the Oven & Other Equipment: During the final resting period, prep your pans and your oven. Position one oven rack in the very bottom position in the oven and another rack in the middle position. Place a cast iron skillet or another heatproof skillet on the bottom rack and a baking stone, baking steal, or a sheet pan turned upside down on the middle rack. (I use a stone) Preheat your oven to 500F (260C). You want your oven and pans to be heating for at least an hour before the bread goes into the oven. You will also need to set up a lightly floured lint free towel or baker's couche to let your shaped dough rise on. Additionally, prepare a pizza peel or an unrimmed baking sheet with a piece of parchment paper.
Pre-Shape & Rest the Dough: If you have a scale, weigh the dough and divide it in two equal pieces by cutting it (do not tear it). Each piece should be about 305 grams each. You can also eyeball this if you do not have a scale. On a very lightly floured surface, press one piece of dough out into a rectangle and gently stretch the short ends out. Fold each short end into the center and press down with your fingertips to seal. Fold each long end into the center and press with your fingertips to seal, creating a seam in the dough. Set the dough aside and repeat this process with the second piece. Cover the pieces of dough with plastic wrap and let them rest for 10 minutes.
Shape into Baguettes: With the seam side up, press the first piece of dough into a thin rectangle. Starting at the top left edge, begin folding down the dough about 1/2" (1.5 cm) and sealing it with your fingertips, working your way across the top. Repeat this process, continuing to fold down on the dough and sealing to create a tight log. Once you have a thin, tight log, turn it seam side down. Using both hands, roll the dough on the counter-top, working it into a long thin snake shape. Try to keep the dough as even as possible and work it into about a 14" (36 cm) baguette. Move the piece of dough to your prepared towel or baker's couche. Push the towel or couche up on both sides of the baguette to create folds to hold the dough's shape. Repeat this process with the second piece of dough.
Let the Dough Rise: Cover the pieces of dough with plastic wrap and let them rest for 45-60 minutes until doubled in size.
Transfer the Dough & Score: Place a baguette board or a small cutting board right beside one of the baguettes. Gently pull up on the towel to flip the baguette over onto the board. Move the baguette over to the parchment lined pizza peel or unrimmed baking sheet. Gently flip the baguette onto the parchment paper, so that the seam side is down. Repeat this to move the second baguette over. Using a very sharp knife or a bread lame, cut 4-5 slashes in the top of the baguettes. The slashes should go longitudinally and at a slight angle, going about 1/4" (.5 cm) deep.
Bake: Fill a small bowl with about 2 cups of ice cubes. You want to work quickly and carefully when transferring the baguettes. Open the oven and gently slide the whole piece of parchment paper with the baguettes onto the preheated baking stone or sheet pan. Quickly pour the ice cubes into the preheated skillet and immediately shut the oven door. Turn the oven temperature down to 475F (246 C). Bake for about 25-40 minutes. It is traditional for baguettes to have a very dark crust. Check them at 25 minutes and decide if you would like a darker crust. I bake mine for 40 minutes for a dark, almost charred, crust.
Cool: Allow the baguettes to cool before slicing. This will completely develop their flavor. Baguettes are best when eaten the same day. However, leftover baguette can be wrapped in foil and kept at room temperature for up to 2 days.


Kraffty said:


> purely a rookie thought here, doesn't the amount of moisture in your dough play into the oven spring (growth?) because of steam while baking? A friend and experienced bread baker chides me constantly for not weighing my ingredients. He says there is no way to get consistent results with out being very very accurate and fine tuning your recipes to your altitude, average temps and humidity.


----------



## bstnh1

Another loaf of Jim Lahey's no-knead crusty bread. Always good!


----------



## ibglowin

Back into Boule mode today!


----------



## Kraffty

Getting pretty Artsy there, nice.


----------



## Boatboy24

You're getting pretty good with the lame, @ibglowin ! I need to step up my game. Actually, I need to get back in the game.


----------



## ibglowin

Breadmaking has been a pseudo-therapy for me this past year. Like winemaking I seem to giveaway more than I keep for myself. I really need to work on my Bauguette game but until I get a replacement for the LG I am not happy with the product all that much. Taste great but not very pretty still. Boules seem easy in comparison!



Boatboy24 said:


> You're getting pretty good with the lame, @ibglowin ! I need to step up my game. Actually, I need to get back in the game.


----------



## ibglowin

Baguette day. These were done in the LG but did not use CONV Bake so it didn't die. Have narrowed a new range down to one of 3 GE slide in gas models. Will be purchasing from Costco as they double the manufactures warranty and of course they will take back things when the Big Box stores say "no returns" on ranges.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

Felt like baking some bread today, but my wife said we had enough bread. So I said we didn't have any valentines bread.
So made the same basic recipe as last time, but added some pink food colouring, and a bit of spent grains as well.


----------



## Kraffty

I'm happy overall with the texture and flavor my boules at this point but I've always wanted a taller version. I tend to end up with a slightly thiner dough which tends to flatten out and generally ends up between 2 and 3 inches tall after baking. I tried something new with this mornings batch that had a 24 hour proof in the fridge and 4 hour warm up on the counter. I cut a 3" tall collar from parchment paper, stapled it and turned the dough out into the collar before baking. I removed the parchment after 30 mins covered baking and baked an additional 15 mins exposed. Big difference in finished shape, might even be able to make sandwiches with this now.


----------



## ibglowin

This should definitely make some nice sammy's!

It was back to Boule's for me this morning as well. I am getting 3.5-4" thickness in the middle.


----------



## ibglowin

Are you using a Dutch Oven?



Kraffty said:


> I'm happy overall with the texture and flavor my boules at this point but I've always wanted a taller version.


----------



## Kraffty

ibglowin said:


> Are you using a Dutch Oven?


Nope had bad luck with them. Also had overly cooked bottoms on a stone. I’m now using a sheet pan, cold with a 2nd a couple inches under it to help defuse the upward heat. I also cover with a stainless mixing bowl during the first 30 minutes.


----------



## ibglowin

That could be your problem. For a good/excellent oven spring they say you need to trap that moisture/steam and the Dutch Oven is the perfect tool. I have had the opposite luck. It has made my Boule cooks almost "set it and forget it". I am using the DO and cooking @450F for 25 mites covered and then 20 mins uncovered. Perfect every time!



Kraffty said:


> Nope had bad luck with them. Also had overly cooked bottoms on a stone. I’m now using a sheet pan, cold with a 2nd a couple inches under it to help defuse the upward heat. I also cover with a stainless mixing bowl during the first 30 minutes.


----------



## thunderwagn

I'm still working on getting used to a stone ware loaf pan my wife got me. I don't eat much bread but my family loves it and I really enjoy myself making it.


----------



## Kraffty

ibglowin said:


> That could be your problem. For a good/excellent oven spring they say you need to trap that moisture/steam and the Dutch Oven is the perfect tool. I have had the opposite luck. It has made my Boule cooks almost "set it and forget it". I am using the DO and cooking @450F for 25 mites covered and then 20 mins uncovered. Perfect every time!


My problem was sticking to the Dutch Oven. Do you coat it or use parchment paper or just a really big DO so the dough doesn't touch the sides?


----------



## Boatboy24

I've never had an issue with any sticking to the DO. It's always well preheated - 30-60 minutes.


----------



## sour_grapes

I always use parchment paper.


----------



## 1d10t

I make small loaves so I fashioned a rack I can lower in and use parchment paper on it. My wife doesn't like the bottom if, in her opinion, it gets over done. This keeps it off the bottom and seems to help with that.


----------



## toadie

I haven't added any pictures so as they say it didn't happen. But I will add my 2 cents. I don't use parchment paper anymore. It is impregnated with silicone which is likely 100 percent safe but I can't wrap my head around using it. I do 2 loaves at a time. Both rest overnight in the fridge in bannetons. Then, out of the fridge, they warm up and rise a bit for the morning or afternoon. I then preheat my dutch oven for roughly an hour. Right before it's time to put a loaf in the oven I dump the loaf upside down onto a thin plywood base/tray that is the same size as the interior of the dutch oven and is covered with a bunch of cornmeal. I score the loaf and then put the dutch oven onto the stovetop. I then slide the loaf into the hot dutch oven, put the lid on and throw it back into the oven. This has been working really well for me though I will admit sometimes the loaf gets squished a bit on entry. One other point, I make sourdough so the rising and proofing process is longer and more extended. Cheers.


----------



## ibglowin

I am using a porcelain coated DO and I toss in a piece of parchment paper as well. No sticking at all.



Kraffty said:


> My problem was sticking to the Dutch Oven. Do you coat it or use parchment paper or just a really big DO so the dough doesn't touch the sides?


----------



## Yooper🍷

Occasionally my loaves would stick - not all the time - so I started using parchment paper. Wouldn’t be without it. Use it under my pizza’s on top of stone. Always have a spare box on hand.


----------



## sour_grapes

Yooper🍷 said:


> Occasionally my loaves would stick - not all the time - so I started using parchment paper. Wouldn’t be without it. Use it under my pizza’s on top of stone. Always have a spare box on hand.



I never thought of parchment for pizza. You are a genius!


----------



## Yooper🍷

Makes it easy to pull off the peel (sp?). And pull off the stone when the pizza is done.


----------



## ibglowin




----------



## bstnh1

Yooper🍷 said:


> Occasionally my loaves would stick - not all the time - so I started using parchment paper. Wouldn’t be without it. Use it under my pizza’s on top of stone. Always have a spare box on hand.


I never had a problem with bread sticking to a dutch oven. But I use parchment paper for virtually everything else I put in the oven other than casserole type dishes. Much better than cooking sprays.


----------



## Boatboy24

King Arthur Baking Company sees flour sales rise 58% amid pandemic


Lots of time spent at home during the pandemic has brought out the inner baker in many of us. Just turn to the numbers for proof: King Arthur Baking Company sold over 156 million pounds of flour in 2020 - a 58% increase over 2019.




finance.yahoo.com


----------



## ibglowin

I don't doubt it. I couldn't hardly find KA on the store shelves here until about two months ago. Now seems to be on the shelf every time I go. Smiths will have about 6-8 bags each of the KA AP and Bread flour.



Boatboy24 said:


> King Arthur Baking Company sees flour sales rise 58% amid pandemic
> 
> 
> Lots of time spent at home during the pandemic has brought out the inner baker in many of us. Just turn to the numbers for proof: King Arthur Baking Company sold over 156 million pounds of flour in 2020 - a 58% increase over 2019.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> finance.yahoo.com


----------



## GreginND

Since it's almost St. Patty's day and I'm working on an Irish Stew recipe with a local Irish Stout from Fargo, I thought I'd make some soda bread. I don't usually make quick breads, but it actually turned out really good.


----------



## thunderwagn

Bigga. I use a dutch oven. No parchment.


----------



## JoP

Anyone used wine yeast for bread making?
Thanks


----------



## CTDrew

Basic raisin Babka breads for Easter baked in “traditional” used coffee can pans and one in a regular steel pan ( so I have one that fits my toaster!) I have to freeze up a few so I’ll have them for Sunday breakfast with my hard boiled eggs and kielbasa!


----------



## ibglowin

Back in baking mode after a week off in SA. Tried a new experiment for Baguettes today. Baked them off one at a time in my oblong DO. Was a little tight but they seemed to not deform too terribly on the ends. One thing for sure is this made for the absolute best crust to date. Chewy outside, incredibly soft inside as you can see we have already consumed half of the first loaf and the third is now baking off. These were done in the little WOLF oven at 450. 25 mins lid on, and then about 16 mins lid off. Baguette dimensions end up being 4"x10" in the end.


----------



## Ty520

Boatboy24 said:


> There are all sorts of great things that can be done with the spent grains and liquids from beer. Been a long time since I've brewed anything, but spent grain bread is to die for!



Using left over whey from cheese making in place of your water can have some fantastic results too


----------



## CTDrew

French bread sourdough for a dinner side tonight. It’s finally nice enough here in New England that I will be charcoal grilling for the first time in about an hour!


----------



## Sailor323

I have been making French bread for some time now and have experimented with several different methods and recipes and am really happy with the results. I recently got into sourdough and am excited about it. When feeding the starter, I wonder what the effect would be if I used homebrew as part or all of the liquid. Here's my most recent sourdough loaf


----------



## ibglowin

Baguette Sunday (yesterday)! First bake in the new GE Cafe' oven. Decided to bake at 450 since that is what I have been using lately. Used the baguette pan and just can't get them to turn out like I want them to. 




They seem to blow up in the middle. Thinking I may need to go to smaller loaves and see if that helps. They are tasty with a perfect crust but want them to stay more thin in the middle. I am adding a pan with water on the bottom rack also for added moisture as well.


----------



## MHSKIBUM

Sailor323 said:


> I have been making French bread for some time now and have experimented with several different methods and recipes and am really happy with the results. I recently got into sourdough and am excited about it. When feeding the starter, I wonder what the effect would be if I used homebrew as part or all of the liquid. Here's my most recent sourdough loaf View attachment 73317


Your sourdough bread looks great. I've had great success with sourdough but never thought about using homebrew as liquid. Interesting! Question: Never had good success making French bread, especially a true Parisian baguette. Can you point me to a good recipe or share yours?


----------



## Sailor323

MHSKIBUM said:


> Your sourdough bread looks great. I've had great success with sourdough but never thought about using homebrew as liquid. Interesting! Question: Never had good success making French bread, especially a true Parisian baguette. Can you point me to a good recipe or share yours?


I would like to share a couple of successful recipes but I can't seem to attach the files to my post and they exceed the number of characters permitted in a personal message. If you know how to get around these problems, educate me. As for using homebrew I was wondering if adding another strain of yeast to the starter would introduce more complexity to the bread or if the added strain my have a killer factor and destroy the yeast in my starter


----------



## ibglowin

PDF's can be attached just like an image. Just hit the "attach files" button in the lower left corner when you are replying to a thread then navigate to your file on your computer. Select the file for upload and then once uploaded finish posting your reply.



Sailor323 said:


> I would like to share a couple of successful recipes but I can't seem to attach the files to my post and they exceed the number of characters permitted in a personal message. If you know how to get around these problems, educate me. As for using homebrew I was wondering if adding another strain of yeast to the starter would introduce more complexity to the bread or if the added strain my have a killer factor and destroy the yeast in my starter


----------



## Sailor323

ibglowin said:


> PDF's can be attached just like an image. Just hit the "attach files" button in the lower left corner when you are replying to a thread then navigate to your file on your computer. Select the file for upload and then once uploaded finish posting your reply.


Thank you, I was trying to attach a Word file, will convert to PDF and try again


----------



## Sailor323

MHSKIBUM said:


> Your sourdough bread looks great. I've had great success with sourdough but never thought about using homebrew as liquid. Interesting! Question: Never had good success making French bread, especially a true Parisian baguette. Can you point me to a good recipe or share yours?


Here are 2 recipes I've had great luck with. One of them is relatively involved but worth the effort, it's my favorite. I don't do everything as written. I don't usually make baguettes; I prefer a single bâtard. I don't use the ice for creating steam in the oven, instead I mist the loaf prior to putting it in the oven then every 3 minutes for 9 minutes I spray a mist into the oven. I use a pizza stone and it is important to get it up to temp--takes an hour in my oven. If your oven doesn't go to 500 degrees, get it as hot as possible and it may take a bit longer to cook. Bread is done when temp is between 205 and 210 F. Te other recipe is one that I used for a long time and yields a very good loaf.


----------



## Darrell Hawley

Sorry guys, I love the bread thread but couldn't resist putting this out there.


----------



## thunderwagn

A little pepperoni bread for a little Sunday snack. The dough is cold fermented for 7 days, then baked in stone loaf pan.


----------



## ibglowin

Any ideas from the collective hive? This time I made 4 baguettes instead of 3 thinking smaller loaves might bake more even but still I see these blow outs at the same location in each baguette! My cuts were all on top dead center to begin with but it looks like the baguettes roll during the bake as the cuts are now almost on the side at the finish.

Baked all four loaves at once and they seem to be baking evenly with no burning at all. I did place a pan on the bottom rack with some water in it plus I spritzed the loaves with some water just before putting them in the oven.

They are shaped more like battleships!


----------



## thunderwagn

ibglowin said:


> View attachment 73714
> 
> 
> View attachment 73716
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas from the collective hive? This time I made 4 baguettes instead of 3 thinking smaller loaves might bake more even but still I see these blow outs at the same location in each baguette! My cuts were all on top dead center to begin with but it looks like the baguettes roll during the bake as the cuts are now almost on the side at the finish.
> 
> Baked all four loaves at once and they seem to be baking evenly with no burning at all. I did place a pan on the bottom rack with some water in it plus I spritzed the loaves with some water just before putting them in the oven.
> 
> They are shaped more like battleships!


I'm no expert by any means, but I have better turn outs by making longer, deeper cuts on the bias. Regardless, I think your baguettes look great. 
A-17!


----------



## ibglowin

Thanks, they taste fine but not so happy with the appearance. Did some googling and yes, it seems I need longer/deeper cuts. The other thing is I have been using a 50/50 blend of AP and Bread flour somebody said the higher gluten in bread flour could be the culprit so I think next time I will try a 100% AP flour mix as well as making those longer/deeper cuts.


----------



## Sailor323

Yo


ibglowin said:


> View attachment 73714
> 
> 
> View attachment 73716
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas from the collective hive? This time I made 4 baguettes instead of 3 thinking smaller loaves might bake more even but still I see these blow outs at the same location in each baguette! My cuts were all on top dead center to begin with but it looks like the baguettes roll during the bake as the cuts are now almost on the side at the finish.
> 
> Baked all four loaves at once and they seem to be baking evenly with no burning at all. I did place a pan on the bottom rack with some water in it plus I spritzed the loaves with some water just before putting them in the oven.
> 
> They are shaped more like battleships!


You are encouraging the bulges by slashing the loaves crosswise. Your loaves can't spread out radially with the slashes going crosswise. Make 3 long slashes nearly parallel with the longitude of the loaf to encourage proper rising in the oven.


----------



## Sailor323

ibglowin said:


> Thanks, they taste fine but not so happy with the appearance. Did some googling and yes, it seems I need longer/deeper cuts. The other thing is I have been using a 50/50 blend of AP and Bread flour somebody said the higher gluten in bread flour could be the culprit so I think next time I will try a 100% AP flour mix as well as making those longer/deeper cuts.


Which AP flour are you using. FWIW, most bread flours are over 11% protein, some over 12%. most AP flours are less than 11%. King Arthur AP flour is 11.7% protein, as high some bread flours. I used to use bread flour for my French bread, I have switched to King Arthur AP with great results. I no longer buy bread flour


----------



## ibglowin

Using all KA flour these days. My boules turn out beautiful just not the baguettes (so far). I will try the long slashes you mentioned as well as all AP flour on the next cook.

Found this excellent video on proper scoring of baguettes yesterday.






Sailor323 said:


> Which AP flour are you using. FWIW, most bread flours are over 11% protein, some over 12%. most AP flours are less than 11%. King Arthur AP flour is 11.7% protein, as high some bread flours. I used to use bread flour for my French bread, I have switched to King Arthur AP with great results. I no longer buy bread flour


----------



## thunderwagn

ibglowin said:


> Using all KA flour these days. My boules turn out beautiful just not the baguettes (so far). I will try the long slashes you mentioned as well as all AP flour on the next cook.
> 
> Found this excellent video on proper scoring of baguettes yesterday.



Well, it looks like I have some improvements to do on my scoring as well lol! Great video!


----------



## ibglowin

BTW, if you have Kroger in your neck of the woods they have KA AP flour on sale for $2.99 for the 5lb bag. There is also a digital coupon for a $1 off for up to 5 bags so net cost is $1.99. Our local store (Smith's) had them for $1.99 so net $0.99 a bag for me!


----------



## thunderwagn

Holy cow! I'll definitely have to check and see. I started a biga last night and getting ready to start another here in a few hours.


----------



## thunderwagn

Banquettes made with 80% biga. 


I should've left them in for a couple more minutes. I like em a hair darker.


----------



## MHSKIBUM

They look great to me. Not had much luck with baguettes but will be trying the suggested recipes. 
Here's a photo of my latest sourdough Challah. Takes three days to get it right but very rewarding result.


----------



## MHSKIBUM

I've been using bread flour to keep faithful to recipes until I become a more proficient baker. One thing that I tried when I lacked bread flour was substituting 1-1/2 teaspoons per cup of AP flour with vital wheat gluten. It certainly helps develop the gluten. I've also found that extra kneading can do the same thing.


----------



## Sailor323

MHSKIBUM said:


> I've been using bread flour to keep faithful to recipes until I become a more proficient baker. One thing that I tried when I lacked bread flour was substituting 1-1/2 teaspoons per cup of AP flour with vital wheat gluten. It certainly helps develop the gluten. I've also found that extra kneading can do the same thing.


Which bread flour are you using? Gold Medal, Pillsbury and King Arthur are all over 12% protein. White Lily, on the other hand, is only 11.7%, same as KA AP


----------



## MHSKIBUM

I use generic bread flour and found it works as well (considering my capabilities) as KA. I found it much cheaper to buy flour in bulk — 20kg bags. 
BTW, I found the best way to store bulk flour is to place the bag in a large ice chest that keeps pests and moisture out. I buy coolers second hand for $10 each at Goodwill. 
I use another cooler as a cooler to eke the last bit of wine from sediment that I put in a jar and as a cool space to prolong feedings for my sourdough starter. I freeze water in wine kit bladders as the cooling medium. 
I also use coolers for their ability to keep things hot, e.g. as a hot water bath when I bulk sous vide large quantities of ribs, steaks or even a full-size brisket.


----------



## ibglowin

The struggle continues.........




100% KA AP flour. Made the long almost horizontal cuts. They did seem to blow out more on top instead of the sides for the most part. I think I may need to deepen the cuts even more. I think I was at ~0.25" and I think I may need more like ~0.5-0.75" deep.

On the other hand the Boules are C'est Magnifique!





Taking all this out to SoCal next week for a visit with the Grand Kids and of course a trip to Paso for a few days for some much needed R&R and wine tasting!


The Cafe' oven is amazing still. Today I had a double dutch oven going on. Cooked both Boules at the same time. Both were done perfectly with no increase in time or temp needed. Yea and I turned on the oven to preheat 450 while still in bed @630AM which was fun......


----------



## Sailor323

Very nice


ibglowin said:


> The struggle continues.........
> 
> View attachment 73959
> 
> 
> 100% KA AP flour. Made the long almost horizontal cuts. They did seem to blow out more on top instead of the sides for the most part. I think I may need to deepen the cuts even more. I think I was at ~0.25" and I think I may need more like ~0.5-0.75" deep.
> 
> On the other hand the Boules are C'est Magnifique!
> 
> View attachment 73964
> 
> 
> 
> Taking all this out to SoCal next week for a visit with the Grand Kids and of course a trip to Paso for a few days for some much needed R&R and wine tasting!
> 
> 
> The Cafe' oven is amazing still. Today I had a double dutch oven going on. Cooked both Boules at the same time. Both were done perfectly with no increase in time or temp needed. Yea and I turned on the oven to preheat 450 while still in bed @630AM which was fun......


.


----------



## Sailor323

Very nice. There is a technique to forming the loaves so they bake evenly. About 50% of the time my baguettes and bâtards are bigger on one end or the other. It all starts when you roll out the "logs"


----------



## Sailor323

ibglowin said:


> The struggle continues.........
> 
> View attachment 73959
> 
> 
> 100% KA AP flour. Made the long almost horizontal cuts. They did seem to blow out more on top instead of the sides for the most part. I think I may need to deepen the cuts even more. I think I was at ~0.25" and I think I may need more like ~0.5-0.75" deep.
> 
> On the other hand the Boules are C'est Magnifique!
> 
> View attachment 73964
> 
> 
> 
> Taking all this out to SoCal next week for a visit with the Grand Kids and of course a trip to Paso for a few days for some much needed R&R and wine tasting!
> 
> 
> The Cafe' oven is amazing still. Today I had a double dutch oven going on. Cooked both Boules at the same time. Both were done perfectly with no increase in time or temp needed. Yea and I turned on the oven to preheat 450 while still in bed @630AM which was fun......


As I said earlier, there is a technique to rolling out the loaves. Mine are frequently bulbous in one place or another. This video was helpful. forming baguettes - Google Search


----------



## JoP

JoP said:


> Anyone used wine yeast for bread making?
> Thanks


Since no one answered this question, for those who are interested , I found the answer in Wine Maker Magazine:




__





Wine Yeast to Make Bread - WineMakerMag.com


You can definitely use wine yeast for baking bread. Bread yeast and wine yeast are both Saccharomyces cerevisiae and both work the same way, by eating sugar and converting it into ethanol and carbon dioxide gas. In the case of wine, the sugar comes from the grapes. In bread, the sugar (simple...




winemakermag.com


----------



## ibglowin

I may have finally gotten my Sourdough baguette technique down pat!


----------



## Kraffty

Congrats, they look bakery quality.....and don't call me pat.....


----------



## sour_grapes

Started another batch tonight for a boule tomorrow. The "interesting" thing is that I used EC-1118. I have tons of packets from kits where I swapped out the yeast. I realized that I will never use them all on wine, so I decided to give it a try with bread. It took off like gangbusters so far!


----------



## ibglowin

Looking forward to seeing the results of your "experiment"!


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle this morning. Heading out to visit the kids and grandkids for a week.


----------



## sour_grapes

I needed to pick up some more bread yeast (having gone through two of the 4 oz. jars of Red Star). Hmm, the 4 oz. jars are $6 at my normal (~Kroger) grocery store, but I was at the local fru-fru co-op, where it was $9 for 4 oz. But lo and behold, next to it was a 2 lb (32oz) vacuum pack for $9.50. (Which, I just checked, runs $21 at Kroger's and $9.50 at Walmart, but $6 on Amazon.)

So, anyway, I am set for bread yeast for a while, yo?! Anyone want any?


----------



## bstnh1

sour_grapes said:


> I needed to pick up some more bread yeast (having gone through two of the 4 oz. jars of Red Star). Hmm, the 4 oz. jars are $6 at my normal (~Kroger) grocery store, but I was at the local fru-fru co-op, where it was $9 for 4 oz. But lo and behold, next to it was a 2 lb (32oz) vacuum pack for $9.50. (Which, I just checked, runs $21 at Kroger's and $9.50 at Walmart, but $6 on Amazon.)
> 
> So, anyway, I am set for bread yeast for a while, yo?! Anyone want any?


You should be all set to rise to any occasion.


----------



## bstnh1

Just a couple of loaves of light, fluffy sandwich bread. Great for toast!!


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle. Finally cooling off enough to think about firing up the oven in the AM.


----------



## Snafflebit

This may not win any sourdough awards, but it is a sight better than Wonder Bread!


----------



## glennwing

Sour dough white


----------



## sour_grapes

I have been doing the same thing over and over. I stopped following a recipe months ago. (Hint: question coming!) I have been happy enough with the results, but not sure I am operating optimally. I do things more by feel than by measure. I use usually 1/2 whole wheat flour (Dakota Maid) and 1/2 bread flour (King Arthur), and also salt and yeast, of course. BUT, I just add the water to my sense of how much water I should have.

Well, today, I did exactly the above, as always, but I also measured my water intake. It turned out to be exactly 0.750 hydration. By most accounts, this is quite high, but not outrageous. I would like to ask the collective: Do you strictly measure your hydration? Do you have any feedback on my hydration level or my results?


----------



## Sailor323

I usually weigh everything. Sometimes though I just measure an exact amount of water and add most of the flour mixed with the yeast and salt. Then I add more flour until the dough reaches the right consistency. I tend to like high levels of hydration (about 75%) with the dough being still a bit sticky. I do this with both sourdough and regular yeast bread. Also, I always make a sponge (poolish) many hours before (overnight, usually) before finishing the dough.


----------



## BarrelMonkey

Shout-out to Mrs Monkey for her wonderful sourdough bread which she makes probably twice a week. I think it can be called a San Francisco sourdough since the starter dates from when we lived there...


----------



## sour_grapes

sour_grapes said:


> I have been doing the same thing over and over. I stopped following a recipe months ago. (Hint: question coming!) I have been happy enough with the results, but not sure I am operating optimally. I do things more by feel than by measure. I use usually 1/2 whole wheat flour (Dakota Maid) and 1/2 bread flour (King Arthur), and also salt and yeast, of course. BUT, I just add the water to my sense of how much water I should have.
> 
> Well, today, I did exactly the above, as always, but I also measured my water intake. It turned out to be exactly 0.750 hydration. By most accounts, this is quite high, but not outrageous. I would like to ask the collective: Do you strictly measure your hydration? Do you have any feedback on my hydration level or my results?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 79288



Well, a coupla things to add. I mentioned in the quoted post that my flour is about 1/2 whole wheat and 1/2 bread flour. What I did not know was that both of them require higher hydration levels than AP. So, 75% is VERY high for a standard AP dough, but perhaps not unreasonable for mine.

Next bit was that I did another loaf, again with 1/2 WW and 1/2 bread flour. I kept track of hydration, but I used the bare minimum water. At 65%, there was still dry flour in the bowl! I stopped at 68%, which was stiff and tacky, but everything was hydrated. This fermented okay overnight, and folded, etc., just fine. The baked loaf seems nice (but I have not cut into it yet). I speculate that this is comparable to a ~60% hydration with AP flour. So, perhaps I was not as outrageous as I feared at 75%...


----------



## MHSKIBUM

Has anyone tried grinding AP flour to make it finer — target 00? The cost of 00 is nuts so would love a work around. I tried it in my cheap blender at high speed for two series of three minutes. It feels finer but not quite the baby powder texture that 00 is supposed to have.
I read in a blog that it can be done with a VitaMix or other high-priced blender but that sort of defeats the whole saving money idea.


----------



## MHSKIBUM

glennwing said:


> View attachment 79173


----------



## MHSKIBUM

glennwing said:


> View attachment 79173
> View attachment 79174
> 
> Sour dough white


Your bread designs are wonderful. 
Question: How do you slice the bread for serving so that the slices are a lovely compliment to your creation. Whenever I make a nice sourdough loaf my arthritic hands end up delivering irregular chunks that look like they were hewed by Conan The Barbarian. 
I have a pretty good bread knife but my hand to eye coordination isn't what it used to be. I've looked on Amazon for bread cutting aides but none seem to do the job for high crusty loaves.


----------



## ibglowin

I'm back in the saddle (again)!







Baking bread while we can still afford to fire up the gas oven.........

Of course we switch over to a gas oven and NG hits an all time record high...... 

Hoping we have a mild La Nina Winter in the SW as we have a NG furnace as well. LOL


----------



## Kraffty

Looking Profesh Mike


----------



## JohnT

Glad that this thread was added.

I have been playing with making bread for a number of years and have not been able to get even close to the type of chewy, crusty bread that i get from any high end bakery. The crust is too soft, and the inside doe not have the big "bubbles" that i am looking for. 

I have played with changing the amount of sugar and the amount of yeast I add. Nothing seems to work. 

I am using just a standard oven and have no desire to purchase any new equipment. Is there any techniques that any of you use to get the results I am looking for? I bake at 375 degrees (until the bread "thumps") and am using bread flour (king aurther).


----------



## ibglowin

I would use a higher cook temp (450) and use AP instead of Bread Flour.









No-Knead Crusty White Bread


A crusty, golden loaf, moist inside and filled with flavor.




www.kingarthurbaking.com


----------



## sour_grapes

Definitly agree with Mike that a higher temp (450) is desired. I thought that most people dont _want_ larger bubbles, but I find that you get larger bubbles if you use higher hydration levels. (That often happens to me, and we call that "rustico" in the Grapes household!)


----------



## Boatboy24

@JohnT: I agree with the higher temps. I highly, highly recommend this book: 






Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook]: Forkish, Ken: 9781607742739: Amazon.com: Books


Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook] [Forkish, Ken] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook]



www.amazon.com


----------



## winemaker81

Mrs WM81 was out of town last weekend, so Saturday afternoon I decided to make bread. I make bread, off-n-on, and wanted to try something a bit different.

I used a bread machine to make the dough -- the plain 'ole white bread recipe printed on the side of the machine. To that I added 1 tsp each oregano, basil, granulated garlic, and dehydrated onion. When the dough was ready, I divided it in 2 and made a pull-apart bread.

I dipped balls of dough in butter and tossed them in greased bread pans, then baked at 425 F for 30 minutes. The results were fairly good.




In hindsight, I used WAY too much butter, so the bread was as much fried as baked. Which wasn't all bad, as the bread didn't need buttering. I also need to make the pieces smaller and more uniform next time.  

This wasn't planned out -- I was puttering around the house and simply got the idea to make it. Being lazy, I simply used the handiest recipe. Another time I'll look for a recipe intended for this purpose.


----------



## bstnh1

winemaker81 said:


> Mrs WM81 was out of town last weekend, so Saturday afternoon I decided to make bread. I make bread, off-n-on, and wanted to try something a bit different.
> 
> I used a bread machine to make the dough -- the plain 'ole white bread recipe printed on the side of the machine. To that I added 1 tsp each oregano, basil, granulated garlic, and dehydrated onion. When the dough was ready, I divided it in 2 and made a pull-apart bread.
> 
> I dipped balls of dough in butter and tossed them in greased bread pans, then baked at 425 F for 30 minutes. The results were fairly good.
> 
> View attachment 81829
> 
> 
> In hindsight, I used WAY too much butter, so the bread was as much fried as baked. Which wasn't all bad, as the bread didn't need buttering. I also need to make the pieces smaller and more uniform next time.
> 
> This wasn't planned out -- I was puttering around the house and simply got the idea to make it. Being lazy, I simply used the handiest recipe. Another time I'll look for a recipe intended for this purpose.


Too much butter? I didn't know that was possible.


----------



## ibglowin

8 degrees this morning so firing up the oven was a good idea!


----------



## Khristyjeff

My wife likes baking bread and bakes them in stones. I'm getting her some upgraded enameled cast iron for Christmas. Do any of you like to cook bread this way? BTW, these bread pics look awesome!


----------



## Sailor323

Lime? I have used my enameled cast iron to bake Boules. Works very well. Using the lid for the early part of the bake provides moisture which promotes a good crust. I rarely bake boules, though. I prefer bâtards. I suppose I could use an oblong cast iron pot for that, never tried it


----------



## Khristyjeff

I had to look up Boules. They look good. Thanks for the info, @Sailor323.


----------



## ibglowin

Stones work great for bread especially pizza and baguettes etc. I mostly do sourdough and usually use a CI Dutch Oven to capture and hold the humidity/steam in during the first part of the bake which helps it rise better and make a better crust.


----------



## sour_grapes

Another enameled dutch oven user here.


----------



## Rembee

I also bake sourdough artisan bread on occasion. I bake in a dutch oven combo as pictured. I get excellent oven spring using the combo dutch oven. It retains the necessary steam that the bread needs to rise and give a nice oven spring. I bake with the lid on for 20 minutes and then remove the lid and continue to bake until golden brown. Normally an additional 15 minutes.
I also have been using the same sourdough starter for just over 2 years now.
This is 2 boules that I just finished baking.


----------



## Boatboy24

Count me in the enameled dutch oven camp! At least for boules - which is 99% of what I make.


----------



## ibglowin

Christmas morning bake off!


----------



## ceeaton

Making pizza doughs today, couldn't resist a basic loaf for my youngest daughter. She just walked into the house and said "something smells good". Then a few seconds later as she walked into the kitchen she added "oh, bread, nice".




She knows it is basically for her to consume.


----------



## ceeaton

A question, now that I made some bread today. I'm finding it almost impossible to find any rye flour, anyone else notice it? Started noticing it once covid got ramped up in the summer of 2020. Figured it would come back on the shelves eventually, just haven't seen it yet.


----------



## winemaker81

ceeaton said:


> Making pizza doughs today, couldn't resist a basic loaf for my youngest daughter. She just walked into the house and said "something smells good". Then a few seconds later as she walked into the kitchen she added "oh, bread, nice".
> 
> She knows it is basically for her to consume.


The stuff we don't think twice about doing for our kids ...


----------



## ibglowin

@ceeaton I have a bag of this I bought last year. I still have like 24lbs of it left!



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049YNXDY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## ceeaton

ibglowin said:


> @ceeaton I have a bag of this I bought last year. I still have like 24lbs of it left!
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049YNXDY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Hummm. I didn't see any at the Restaurant Store when I was there last week, but I have to admit I didn't check their website. I can order stuff and pick it up at the store in Mechanicsburg (close to work) usually within a day or two of ordering it. Need to grab a beverage and do some research.

I could use 5 lbs, not so sure about 25 lbs, lol.


----------



## winemaker81

ceeaton said:


> I could use 5 lbs, not so sure about 25 lbs, lol.


25 lbs will provide incentive ....


----------



## ceeaton

winemaker81 said:


> 25 lbs will provide incentive ....


I'd gain 50 lbs...


----------



## winemaker81

ceeaton said:


> I'd gain 50 lbs...


You have at least one child to feed ... spread the wealth!


----------



## ceeaton

Bob's Red Mill 25 lb. Organic Dark Rye Flour


Bob's Red Mill 25 lb. Organic Dark Rye Flour




www.therestaurantstore.com





Found one! But 25 lbs...


----------



## bstnh1

ceeaton said:


> Bob's Red Mill 25 lb. Organic Dark Rye Flour
> 
> 
> Bob's Red Mill 25 lb. Organic Dark Rye Flour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.therestaurantstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Found one! But 25 lbs...


Oh, go ahead! Think of your neighbors ..... the people at work ...... the mail person ....... the possibilities are endless. You may want to get 2 bags!!


----------



## sour_grapes

JAB  (Just another boule).


----------



## ibglowin

2 loaves of sourdough (rear) and two loaves of sourdough/rye/caraway seed (front). Gonna make some nice rueben sandwiches for dinner tonight. Supposed to be cloudy and cold with snow Friday night/Saturday morning so lots of fresh bread for tonight and tomato basil soup and grilled cheese sandwiches on another night!


----------



## sour_grapes

You really have that patterning down!


----------



## ibglowin

It works and people seem to like it. At some point I should try something new I guess!



sour_grapes said:


> You really have that patterning down!


----------



## sour_grapes

ibglowin said:


> It works and people seem to like it. At some point I should try something new I guess!



Oh, I said "patterning," not "pattern." I was complimenting your technique!


----------



## ceeaton

Some Friday evening bagels for my youngest daughter. 10 made, will be amazed if there are 5 left tomorrow morning.


----------



## bstnh1

ceeaton said:


> Some Friday evening bagels for my youngest daughter. 10 made, will be amazed if there are 5 left tomorrow morning.
> 
> View attachment 84542


Our oven was that clean - once!! The day they delivered it!


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle again!


----------



## justsgm

Beautiful!!!


----------



## BigDaveK

Took my last corned beef from the freezer and that means rye bread.


----------



## bstnh1

Sunday:



Thursday: Came out so good I decided to make another!


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle on a cold, snowy Friday morning!


----------



## ceeaton

Not as technically complex as a sourdough bread, but still fun and quick. Youngest daughter caught the flu from my son (we always share in our family, lol), and since it seems to be a quick mover (about 2 days of not feeling great) I decided to make some soft pretzels for her (her favorite) and some bagels (her second favorite, she likes any bread product). New recipe, egg wash, used some hi gluten flour (trying to use it since I now use 00 for pizza dough). Lite and fluffy inside, nice crisp outside from the wash. Made her happy and that is what a dad is for, right?




Edit: she just came back in the kitchen for a bagel after the initial pretzel, so home run on my part! My wife and I split a pretzel, I expect the rest of the batch to not exist after lunchtime tomorrow, as usual.


----------



## joeswine

bstnh1 said:


> Sunday:
> View attachment 85618
> 
> 
> Thursday: Came out so good I decided to make another!
> 
> View attachment 85619
> 
> 
> View attachment 85620


----------



## joeswine

Nice air pockets means good texture correct?


----------



## bstnh1

joeswine said:


> Nice air pockets means good texture correct?


Oh yes!


----------



## Rocky

joeswine said:


> Nice air pockets means good texture correct?


And a very active and vigorous yeast.


----------



## BigDaveK

For my everyday bread I do the the "Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day" thing. Mix ingredients, let rise, fridge. To make a loaf, grab a big handful, form tight ball, bake. No kneading. Pizza stone, tray of hot water. Super easy.

And since this is the time of year to restock the freezer with corned beef, more rye bread.


----------



## joeswine

You guys amaze me with the baking


----------



## BigDaveK

joeswine said:


> You guys amaze me with the baking


I was incredibly intimidated at first. But like so many things, the more you do it the easier it gets.

Which can be bad when all you want is one piece of candy and there's none in the house and you don't want to go shopping. So you decide to bake a cake and double the buttercream frosting recipe.


----------



## joeswine

I i understand the feeling I enjoy cooking all types of food ( international) Cuisine .Italian, Asian and Spanish some Mexican also.


----------



## BigDaveK

Box cake mixes are always good for emergencies!
Cake mix hack: 5 eggs instead of 3, milk instead of water, melted butter instead of oil. Tastes like a bakery cake. Homemade buttercream frosting, of course.


----------



## joeswine

Hi my delicious looking


----------



## Khristyjeff

BigDaveK said:


> Box cake mixes are always good for emergencies!
> Cake mix hack: 5 eggs instead of 3, milk instead of water, melted butter instead of oil. Tastes like a bakery cake. Homemade buttercream frosting, of course.
> 
> View attachment 86217


I'm not much of a cake guy but I bet I'd love a piece of this. Wow! Does the hack work with other flavors of cake mix or should my wife stick with yellow?


----------



## ceeaton

Khristyjeff said:


> I'm not much of a cake guy but I bet I'd love a piece of this. Wow! Does the hack work with other flavors of cake mix or should my wife stick with yellow?


I think the question that comes to mind for me is did the cat like the icing?


----------



## BigDaveK

Khristyjeff said:


> I'm not much of a cake guy but I bet I'd love a piece of this. Wow! Does the hack work with other flavors of cake mix or should my wife stick with yellow?


Unfortunately I have tried it with at least 6 different flavors. Even chocolate. Works great with all of them, dammit.


----------



## BigDaveK

ceeaton said:


> I think the question that comes to mind for me is did the cat like the icing?


I spoil my cats. Tasting before serving isn't allowed but I let them lick the plate. They love it! The plate is so clean I don't have to wash. Right back on the shelf!


----------



## vinny

It's official, this site is gonna make me fat.

BUT, I'm gonna love every second of it.


----------



## wineview

Winter and sourdough go together very well


----------



## Tipsy

I have recently learned that almost all wheat producers in Canada and US use roundup before harvesting. I have been making bread for years with wheat flour but this turns me right off. Does anyone have any good recipes for non wheat bread? I know I could use organic flour but its so expensive here in Canada. Looking for options


----------



## wineview

Tipsy said:


> I have recently learned that almost all wheat producers in Canada and US use roundup before harvesting. I have been making bread for years with wheat flour but this turns me right off. Does anyone have any good recipes for non wheat bread? I know I could use organic flour but its so expensive here in Canada. Looking for options



King Arthur flour is produced in Vermont and is organic. No Roundup use on their wheat.


----------



## Tipsy

wineview said:


> King Arthur flour is produced in Vermont and is organic. No Roundup use on their wheat.


Thank you. Its not available here though.


----------



## sour_grapes

I think that first you had better research and identify what grain that you _would_ accept, rather than blindly saying "non-wheat."


----------



## ceeaton

Tipsy said:


> Thank you. Its not available here though.


Anything available from Italy? Caputo 00 flour can be used to make bread in a pinch (and pizza dough). Pretty sure it's organic and they can't use Roundup, but best to research online where everything is correct and true, lol.


----------



## BigDaveK

wineview said:


> King Arthur flour is produced in Vermont and is organic. No Roundup use on their wheat.


Oh yeah, love King Arthur! Employee owned. Only brand I buy.
Roundup is everywhere, unfortunately. Even in breast milk. There's evidence that many people aren't sensitive to gluten but rather the glyphosate. Don't read about it - may scare the crap out of you.


----------



## Tipsy

sour_grapes said:


> I think that first you had better research and identify what grain that you _would_ accept, rather than blindly saying "non-wheat."



I am pretty much open to trying anything.


----------



## ibglowin

Just out of the oven!


----------



## jswordy

wineview said:


> King Arthur flour is produced in Vermont and is organic. No Roundup use on their wheat.



Only the King Arthur Organic Line is made 100% without Roundup. It says on their website that the farmers who produce other wheat for them are "not tilling (to reduce erosion)," which means glyphosate sometimes in combo with other vegetation killers is used on the land, even if KA says it is not used as a pre-harvest wheat killer.

It is a typical agricultural practice to kill winter wheat at maturity with glyphosate. That makes sure the grain is of uniform size when harvested and that it all is of equal dryness, important to combat spoilage when stored. The practice is most in use in areas where multiple crops will be raised on the same acreage, as it helps ensure uniform harvest times so that fields can be replanted.


----------



## Fox Squirrel Vin

Tipsy said:


> I have recently learned that almost all wheat producers in Canada and US use roundup before harvesting. I have been making bread for years with wheat flour but this turns me right off. Does anyone have any good recipes for non wheat bread? I know I could use organic flour but its so expensive here in Canada. Looking for options


I'm pretty sure the flour coming from Italy doesn't have roundup in it. I think its use as a desiccant there is banned. But you have to make sure the wheat was grown in italy as a lot of their larger pasta producers import US and Canadian wheat. I'm not sure about their mills for bread flower.


----------



## Fox Squirrel Vin

ibglowin said:


> Just out of the oven!
> 
> View attachment 87169


Are you doing those in cast iron?


----------



## bstnh1

wineview said:


> King Arthur flour is produced in Vermont and is organic. No Roundup use on their wheat.


KA does not grow wheat or "make" flour. They buy wheat from western and Midwestern U.S., including Kansas, Colorado and North Dakota. ADM Milling mills at least some of KA's flour. King Arthur's regular bread flour was tested for the Center for Environmental Health in 2018 and it had 1386 ppb glyphosate.


----------



## ibglowin




----------



## ibglowin

Have sourdough, will travel.........




Heading out tomorrow before dawn. Will have grandkids hanging off me by dinnertime. Will be in SLO and Paso by Monday evening (3 days) and then back to beautiful downtown Burbank for the rest of the week.


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle this AM. The quest for 4 perfect baguettes continues but making progress........


----------



## bstnh1

ibglowin said:


> Back in the saddle this AM. The quest for 4 perfect baguettes continues but making progress........
> 
> View attachment 89875
> 
> 
> View attachment 89876


Look close enough to me!!


----------



## ibglowin

Taste pretty good for sure!



bstnh1 said:


> Look close enough to me!!


----------



## vinny

ibglowin said:


> Back in the saddle this AM. The quest for 4 perfect baguettes continues but making progress........
> 
> View attachment 89875
> 
> 
> View attachment 89876


Bread is a skill, and those are pretty good looking loaves. You always gotta aim for perfection, but you also have to give recognition where it is due. 

If they taste half as good as they look, I wouldn't say no to a second slice.... Who am I kidding. I'd be all over the second loaf.


----------



## ceeaton

ibglowin said:


> Taste pretty good for sure!


I'm still waiting for Fed Ex tomorrow morning, lol...

I showed my coworker Gwen at work and she was drooling. I told her they were sourdough (duh) and she upped her drool production.


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle.......... Started at 6AM to beat the heat.


----------



## Rocky

ibglowin said:


> Back in the saddle.......... Started at 6AM to beat the heat.
> 
> View attachment 90900


Mike, you are truly an artist! What kind of bread is it? It appears to be a sourdough or a Tuscan type white. Would you be willing to share your recipe?


----------



## ibglowin

Sourdough. I think my starter is going on 2 years old now. 

I use a tweaked recipe from here:









The Perfect Loaf: Beginner’s Sourdough Bread - Edible New Mexico







www.ediblenm.com





You basically start the dough in the morning and work it (off and on every few hours) most of the day. Then shape the dough into 2 loaves around 6PM and place into the bannetons and cover with a produce baggie and seal and store in the fridge overnight to proof. Pull out the next morning and bake off. I use CI Dutch Oven. 25mins covered. 16-18mins uncovered at 450F.



Rocky said:


> Mike, you are truly an artist! What kind of bread is it? It appears to be a sourdough or a Tuscan type white. Would you be willing to share your recipe?


----------



## vinny

ibglowin said:


> Back in the saddle.......... Started at 6AM to beat the heat.
> 
> View attachment 90900


Those sure are perdy. 

How long since you made your last batch or fed your starter. That's where I always had issues. I'd want to make a loaf, but always had to get my starter back in shape because I never got a good enough loaf to make me excited enough to really focus on the starter. 

Do you use anything to transfer to the dutch oven?


----------



## ibglowin

I feed my starter(s) every two weeks (max). I keep them in the fridge out in the garage. Sometimes I just dump 200gms starter into the trash and then add back 100gms AP flour and 100gms water, stir and......... rinse, repeat......

Other times I make a sourdough pizza crust dough out of it and feed it. Days like today I made both bread and a sourdough pizza crust and froze it. I let it rise and proof for about 10 hours then punch it down one last time and then wrap the pizza dough in Saran Wrap and then into Tupperware container and pop into the freezer. The dough will last about a month and still turn out a nice crust once baked.

I dump the loaves out of the bannetons directly onto a sheet of parchment paper. Score the loaf quickly and then pull the preheated DO out of the oven and just transfer the loaf to the DO via the parchment paper (drop it in). Put the lid back on and pop it back into the oven for the 25min covered bake portion.





vinny said:


> Those sure are perdy.
> 
> How long since you made your last batch or fed your starter. That's where I always had issues. I'd want to make a loaf, but always had to get my starter back in shape because I never got a good enough loaf to make me excited enough to really focus on the starter.
> 
> Do you use anything to transfer to the dutch oven?


----------



## vinny

Thanks! Adding pizza dough into the mix is a good idea. I never thought of it. Waffles would be a quick one just to recharge the starter.

I'll have to try parchment next time. I was cooking in a gas oven before, heat from the bottom only, and my loaves were DARK on the bottom. That and the transfer were my two failing points. It's disappointing after weeks of working on your starter, and hours working on the 'perfect' loaf.

I'll have to revisit it again this fall. 

I've noted your pizza pictures before, thinking that looks damn good. Now, had I known it was a sourdough crust....


----------



## ibglowin

Yep the pizza crust option gives you an excellent way to use up a discard for use now or later if frozen.

I have taken discards and just made a quick pancake but man that is one sour pancake! It really needs to be diluted into multiple pancakes.

I have a sourdough pizza recipe when you or anyone else is ready. It's now tried and true.


----------



## ibglowin

Heat from the bottom should not be a problem, in fact I think it should be preferred. You can always move your rack up to equalize heat distribution. I find the DO really helps to smooths things out (heat wise). We went from electric oven (POS) LG to Gas oven GE Cafe' with heat from the bottom and have never been happier.




vinny said:


> I'll have to try parchment next time. I was cooking in a gas oven before, heat from the bottom only, and my loaves were DARK on the bottom. That and the transfer were my two failing points. It's disappointing after weeks of working on your starter, and hours working on the 'perfect' loaf.


----------



## vinny

ibglowin said:


> Heat from the bottom should not be a problem, in fact I think it should be preferred. You can always move your rack up to equalize heat distribution. I find the DO really helps to smooths things out (heat wise). We went from electric oven (POS) LG to Gas oven GE Cafe' with heat from the bottom and have never been happier.



Hmmm. I was using a dutch oven. Maybe I was too hot, or not enough room to raise the DO up high enough. Likely not a variable I'll have to contend with anymore

I am sure I will hit you up for that recipe at some point. 

Have you ever tried sourdough bagels? They are amazing. I get some from a little farm store right on the farm, 20 minutes outside of a little town of 10,000. They are something you would expect to pay a few dollars a piece for in a fancy NY bakery. 

If you haven't, and ever want to impress yourself, t's quite the thing. Lots of work I'm sure, but oh my! They are GOOOOD.


----------



## Merrywine

Beer sourdough 10% rye.


----------



## Merrywine

Sourdough AP flour.


----------



## ibglowin

Nice cool/cloudy monsoon start to the day. Fired up the oven by 0615.


----------



## bstnh1

ibglowin said:


> Nice cool/cloudy monsoon start to the day. Fired up the oven by 0615.
> 
> View attachment 91506


Nice loaves. But that stove is sickenly clean.


----------



## Kraffty




----------



## ibglowin

Speaking of bread. I fed my starter this AM and went to my local Smiths (Kroger) and KA flour jumped up $1 more for both the AP and bread flour. KA Bread Flour is now up to $7.50/ 5lbs!


----------



## bstnh1

ibglowin said:


> Speaking of bread. I fed my starter this AM and went to my local Smiths (Kroger) and KA flour jumped up $1 more for both the AP and bread flour. KA Bread Flour is now up to $7.50/ 5lbs!
> 
> View attachment 92009


It's still a bit under $5 here - but not by much. I think it was $4.79 last week. $4.48 at Walmart right now - those prices are for the regular, not bread flour.


----------



## VinesnBines

That's more than buying from KA himself. $6.95 @ 5 lbs. Shipping might make it higher than the grocery, though.


----------



## ibglowin

I was just on the Walmart site to compare an saw the $4.48 for the AP. I use a "proprietary blend" (LOL) of both AP and Bread flour in my sourdough. Might have to see about snagging some at Walmart at some point but the closest one is a 45 mile round trip vs 1 mile round trip to the Kroger store.


----------



## ibglowin

And now for the rest of the story as Paul Harvey used to say.........









Profiteering Watch: Kroger Boasts $566M Net Income After Marking Up Consumer Prices - Accountable US







accountable.us








VinesnBines said:


> That's more than buying from KA himself. $6.95 @ 5 lbs. Shipping might make it higher than the grocery, though.


----------



## Merrywine

Not the best spring, but the person who got it is thrilled to have home baked sourdough.


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle this AM. 49F for the low this morning so the house was nice and cool when I fired up the oven at 0630.


----------



## ibglowin

Paid $6.49 yesterday for a 5lb sack of KA unbleached AP flour.........

Thanks Kroger for all you do to keep inflation at bay.


----------



## ibglowin

Really nice spring on the 2nd loaf on the right.


----------



## Merrywine

Sourdough babka 4 ways with an overnight ferment in the fridge


----------



## Merrywine

Enriched sourdough with mixed fruit inclusion.


----------



## GreenEnvy22

I made a few loaves of bread this summer, with a but of kick.
I fermented a whole bunch of hot sauce, so after that was done fermenting, I had this very spicy salty brine left over. I used that in place of water and salt in a basic bread recipe, and it turned out really nice.

The first few chews aren't spicy, then it slowly builds. Even though the hot sauce was super hot, with reapers, scorpions, and ghost peppers, the bread was quite pleasant.


----------



## Merrywine

Pumpkin sourdough, first attempt with this shape and recipe.


----------



## ibglowin

34 degrees this morning so firing up the oven at 630AM was a good thing. 

Back in the saddle again!


----------



## Kraffty

We have friends coming in tomorrow for 4 days. Put together a loaf of Buttermilk, cinnamon, pecan and cranberry bread just for French Toast Friday morning. Also prepped a couple of loaves of herbed sourdough that are doing a slow rise and will bake in the morning to go with Spaghetti tomorrow night. Hope they come out as pretty as Mike's above. Have you taken any before and afters of your slicing patterns, they look awesome.


----------



## ibglowin

Looking good Mike!

We have a couple nice serrated bread knives and usually just cut off what we want as needed. Not always pretty but always amazingly good for sure!



Kraffty said:


> We have friends coming in tomorrow for 4 days. Put together a loaf of Buttermilk, cinnamon, pecan and cranberry bread just for French Toast Friday morning. Also prepped a couple of loaves of herbed sourdough that are doing a slow rise and will bake in the morning to go with Spaghetti tomorrow night. Hope they come out as pretty as Mike's above. Have you taken any before and afters of your slicing patterns, they look awesome.
> View attachment 94246
> View attachment 94247


----------



## Kraffty

I was really talking about your lame work on the crust. Always looks professional and artisan


----------



## ibglowin

Kraffty said:


> I was really talking about your lame work on the crust. Always looks professional and artisan


That one is actually easy. I use a razor and make a snake down the middle and then just make small slices to make a stalk on either side of the snake. Easy peezy!


----------



## ibglowin

Trying something new this AM. Tartine Olive Sourdough Bread!









Tartine Olive Sourdough Bread


The rich and decadent Tartine olive sourdough bread is inredible. Let's make this simple sourdough bread and trust me, you'll keep on making it.




www.theperfectloaf.com


----------



## Kraffty

We need a Drooling "like" icon Mike... looks awesome. We're making a broccoli cheese cream soup and I tried making soft pretzels for the first time. Alton Brown recipe followed exactly and they came out great. Taste and texture of a perfect yeast dinner roll. Should be perfect with soup.


----------



## vinny

Kraffty said:


> We need a Drooling "like" icon Mike... looks awesome. We're making a broccoli cheese cream soup and I tried making soft pretzels for the first time. Alton Brown recipe followed exactly and they came out great. Taste and texture of a perfect yeast dinner roll. Should be perfect with soup.
> View attachment 95244


Nicely done. Picture perfect.

Did you stuff 'em? I've made them stuffed with cheese and brushed with rosemary in butter. Makes a really good take along snack!


----------



## Kraffty

vinny said:


> Nicely done. Picture perfect.
> 
> Did you stuff 'em? I've made them stuffed with cheese and brushed with rosemary in butter. Makes a really good take along snack!


Will try that next time, thanks


----------



## ibglowin

Those look like they could have come out of a case at any bakery. Perfect!



Kraffty said:


> We need a Drooling "like" icon Mike... looks awesome. We're making a broccoli cheese cream soup and I tried making soft pretzels for the first time. Alton Brown recipe followed exactly and they came out great. Taste and texture of a perfect yeast dinner roll. Should be perfect with soup.
> View attachment 95244


----------



## CTDrew

Cold weather is here, and bread season has returned. This rye is the first of many to be baked (and eaten) this winter.


----------



## bstnh1

Not the prettiest loaf ..... but it sure tasted good!


----------



## ceeaton

Finally got around to making some sourdough bread with my new bannetons. Pushed one on time and made tonight (pictured), have one in the fridge to cook early tomorrow morning. Everything worked as planned.

Thank you for the pointers MIke!


----------



## Merrywine

Spent grain bread.


----------



## ceeaton

Try #2, first two loaves disappeared pretty quickly. Will take one of these to church and give away to someone who needs some bread. That way I can experiment a little more, lol.


----------



## ibglowin

Back in the saddle again. 15F outside. Nice the garage is cold enough this time of year to just proof the bread overnight without need of man made refrigeration.


----------



## Rice_Guy

I am my mother’s child






fresh warm stollen, like mom made ,,,, (better than from Amazon)


----------



## vinny

ibglowin said:


> Back in the saddle again. 15F outside. Nice the garage is cold enough this time of year to just proof the bread overnight without need of man made refrigeration.
> 
> View attachment 96226


Those are truly beautiful. I am going to have to try my luck again soon. Do you have any pictures of the dough before baking? I'd just like to see how deep your cuts are. Do you bake in a dutch oven, or baking tray?


----------



## ibglowin

I don't have any before hand pics sadly. I use a standard bread lame to score with a razor. Cuts are not very deep, maybe a 1/4". I make a snake down the middle and then make a small wheat stalk of sorts on both sides of that. I use a dutch oven. 25mins covered and then about 18mins uncovered. I bake at 450F and I am at 6600ft EL so high altitude needless to say.






vinny said:


> Those are truly beautiful. I am going to have to try my luck again soon. Do you have any pictures of the dough before baking? I'd just like to see how deep your cuts are. Do you bake in a dutch oven, or baking tray?


----------



## vinny

ibglowin said:


> 6600ft




I'm only at 2200, so no excuses on my part.

Thank you. You certainly set the bar. I'll report back once I muster up the courage to try it again.


----------



## Merrywine

Sourdough enriched with beer and about 15 g honey. Tight crumb but soft and tasty.


----------



## ibglowin

First try at making a French style country bread. Followed the recipe from the KA website making a sponge or starter the night before. Smells like freshly baked bread to me! Waiting for it to cool down before cutting into it and looking at the crumb and seeing how it taste as well as the chew. Used just AP flour per directions. Should have maybe made this bad boy into two smaller loaves!


----------



## ibglowin




----------



## bstnh1

ibglowin said:


> First try at making a French style country bread. Followed the recipe from the KA website making a sponge or starter the night before. Smells like freshly baked bread to me! Waiting for it to cool down before cutting into it and looking at the crumb and seeing how it taste as well as the chew. Used just AP flour per directions. Should have maybe made this bad boy into two smaller loaves!
> 
> View attachment 96635


Bread looks great. But that's a disgustingly clean stove!!  Ours hasn't looked like that since the day it was uncrated.


----------



## Bmd2k1

Anyone have any good recipes for bread using non-wheat flours -- like almond etc?


----------



## ceeaton

My son has been gluten intolerant since he was 6 or so yrs old. He says he remembers normal pizza, I just can't remember what I had for dinner last week, so I kinda wonder. But he says this flour makes the best crust that is closest to a wheat flour crust that he can remember.



https://www.amazon.com/Antico-Caputo-Fiore-Glut-Gluten-Flour/dp/B00FXH8QFQ?th=1



I've never used it to make bread, though it says it's meant for bread. I usually get a 50 lb sack of Pamela's bread mix to make his bread.

I'm assuming you need to avoid the gluten. If it is anything wheat, don't use the Fioreglut, it has a wheat starch w/o gluten in it, I think that is why it tastes like a wheat flour bread (fyi: still as sticky and awful as any other GF flour).

You can get the Fioreglut at Wegmans if you have one nearby, much cheaper than ordering online.


----------



## wood1954

Merrywine said:


> Spent grain bread.View attachment 95509
> 
> 
> View attachment 95510


How do get the bread to be so holey? I make whole wheat bread but if I let it rise just a little too long it collapses, I can make a fairly soft loaf but I want that nice open structure for butter or jam.


----------



## ibglowin

wood1954 said:


> How do get the bread to be so holey? I make whole wheat bread but if I let it rise just a little too long it collapses, I can make a fairly soft loaf but I want that nice open structure for butter or jam.


Generally the less you work with the dough the more CO2 pockets will remain from yeast so if you want a lot of pockets you minimize your kneading, compressing, mixing the dough before baking.


----------



## bstnh1

wood1954 said:


> How do get the bread to be so holey? I make whole wheat bread but if I let it rise just a little too long it collapses, I can make a fairly soft loaf but I want that nice open structure for butter or jam.


Lot of good info here:

How To Get Big Holes In Bread: 6 Essential Steps - Crust Kingdom


----------



## Merrywine

wood1954 said:


> How do get the bread to be so holey? I make whole wheat bread but if I let it rise just a little too long it collapses, I can make a fairly soft loaf but I want that nice open structure for butter or jam.


This bake was with commercial yeast, and I guess it proved the right amount and I don’t “overwork” the dough. The old cook book recipe would instruct to “punch down” the dough, but I don’t want to loose all that gas, and the modern writers have abandoned the punching term, so deflate a bit as it is shaped for the second rise. Over proving causes collapse because the gluten looses strength/development. At least that is a basic explanation… I’m not a pro baker and I’m sure there is a little more to it than what I’ve shared.


----------



## wood1954

Thanks everyone, seems like I’ve been overworking the dough and squeezing the bubbles out before I for the loaves. In the middle of a blizzard, looks like a good bread day


----------



## Boatboy24

I've said it before and will continue to say it. Buy this book. It will up your bread game. 






Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook]: Forkish, Ken: 9781607742739: Amazon.com: Books


Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook] [Forkish, Ken] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook]



www.amazon.com


----------



## ceeaton

Boatboy24 said:


> I've said it before and will continue to say it. Buy this book. It will up your bread game.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook]: Forkish, Ken: 9781607742739: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook] [Forkish, Ken] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Flour Water Salt Yeast: The Fundamentals of Artisan Bread and Pizza [A Cookbook]
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


I bought it, I bought it, I bought it! Wonderful book, still working through it...




The book on the right is also must buy in my opinion. Great dough recipes to work with, they have one called Enzo's Pizza dough which is a same day dough if you get up early enough in the morning (a 10 hour rest). Uses a scant amount of yeast but pulls easily and my wife said it made the best tasting, thinnest base/crust that I've made so far. Add some sourdough discard and it's out of this world good. BTW, he changes up some of his pizza concepts from the back of the first book in the second Elements of PIzza book in a big way. He said the changes were from doing it every day and learning as he went. I subscribe and use the concepts in the second book for pizza dough and they work out pretty well, still an experiment in progress...

Joe Beddia's Pizza Camp is also a good one for pizza, plus he's a Philly phan and has his pizzeria there as well. Made a mushroom "white" pizza from his book. It has a mushroom cream sauce as the base, a bit of cheese and some sautéed shitake mushrooms on top.




It was yet another experimental dough, was held at 33*F for 144 hours proofing... It was the best pizza I think I've ever made.


----------



## bstnh1

A Google search for "Enzo's Pizza dough" will get you several sources for the recipe.


----------



## wood1954

I have the flour salt water book, but it teaches a very foreign method compared to how I’ve always made bread so I stuck on the shelf and forgot about it. After starting this post and getting encouragement I opened it up again used his methods and made some bread. Turned out good , I let the dough get too cold so it didn’t rise very well and I ran out of flour and time so it’s kind of flat. At 11 pm I put it in the oven. Much holeier than any bread I’ve made before


----------



## winemaker81

ceeaton said:


> It was yet another experimental dough, was held at 33*F for 144 hours proofing... It was the best pizza I think I've ever made.


Of course it was the best pizza you made! After waiting 144 hours, you were starving and would have eaten anything!


----------



## sour_grapes

wood1954 said:


> Much holeier than any bread I’ve made before View attachment 96724



Maybe because it was Christmas Eve?


----------



## ceeaton

Overnight Country Blonde bread (FWSY pg 168) using pure levain in place of any commercial yeast. Also bulk rests at room temperature overnight (60 or so where I had it in the kitchen) and is shaped the next morning in the banneton for four hours. Definitely softer and takes the shape of what it is proofed in at the non-refridgerated temperature. Was tough to score as well, just a bit "floppy". Cooked in the dutch oven as I normally do.

Crumb not as open as I thought it would be, flavor was good but not overly sourdoughy. I used a culture I've had going at room temperature that I made up a few weeks ago from my main starter, have to feed it much more often. When I fed my main starter from the fridge, I noticed it had a much sharper acidic nose than the room temperature starter. Wonder if the constant feeding made it "too happy" and less stressed, so the flavor mellowed out?

Either way a good bread, daughter who says she doesn't like sourdough bread will eat it if I don't tell her it's sourdough bread, lol.







Working on a batch of bagels at the moment, will do pizzas later this afternoon/evening. I love having a weekday off work!


----------



## wood1954

it's amazing how fast we eat homemade bread!


----------



## Kraffty

Saw this recipe on The Kitchen presented by Katie Lee and Lori wanted me to give it a try. Basically it's a cinnamon roll dough recipe but the filling is cream cheese, scallions and everything bagel seasoning. Great brunch or dinner roll. I cut the recipe in half and ended up perfect for us.

if interested link:








Everything Bagel Cream Cheese Rolls


Get Everything Bagel Cream Cheese Rolls Recipe from Food Network




www.foodnetwork.com


----------



## winemaker81

I receive a silicon bread pan for Christmas and had to test it. I made a white bread from a secret recipe known only to people who own the same bread machine I do and looked at the side of the machine. I used the machine to knead the dough, and baked in the new pan plus a conventional pan.




The new pan is a bit smaller, and while the color is different, the crust and interior texture are identical.


----------



## vinny

Sooo. My brother came up for a couple of days after Xmas. He brought me a sourdough starter. That was the easy part, my most poignant question at the moment..

What now?  

I have seen some amazing loaves on here, so I know I won't be lead astray. What do you guys recommend? Buns, a round loaf, sandwich style, bagels?

I am happy to start in the beginners section. I have made a few round loaves in the past, but it's all new appliances since so other than a slight clue I really have nothing to work with. I have a ceramic coated dutch oven, and my oven has a steam bake mode. I don't have anything else like proofing baskets or specialty tools. Is there a must have order list? I imagine the recommended books I have seen here are well worth the read?

Should I give the starter a few 'regeneration'? cycles to get used to my flours before making a bread? Any good recipes for the discard? I hate the throw away.

@ibglowin Sorry for the call out, but you have set the bar!


----------



## ibglowin

vinny said:


> Sooo. My brother came up for a couple of days after Xmas. He brought me a sourdough starter. That was the easy part, my most poignant question at the moment..
> 
> What now?
> 
> I have seen some amazing loaves on here, so I know I won't be lead astray. What do you guys recommend? Buns, a round loaf, sandwich style, bagels?
> 
> I am happy to start in the beginners section. I have made a few round loaves in the past, but it's all new appliances since so other than a slight clue I really have nothing to work with. I have a ceramic coated dutch oven, and my oven has a steam bake mode. I don't have anything else like proofing baskets or specialty tools. Is there a must have order list? I imagine the recommended books I have seen here are well worth the read?
> 
> Should I give the starter a few 'regeneration'? cycles to get used to my flours before making a bread? Any good recipes for the discard? I hate the throw away.
> 
> @ibglowin Sorry for the call out, but you have set the bar!



I would poke around on the KA website they have tons of recipes that are tried and true for sourdough and everything else baking. I always use a dutch oven and parchment paper for boules. For baguettes I have used a baguette pan. I have proofing bowls and use them for both boules and baguettes. Its a 2 day process that starts by taking your starter out of the fridge in the morning and then letting it warm up for a couple hours. Then you start weighing things out and working the dough. Day one ends around 5PM with your dough in your proofing bowls, and a produce baggie and a twist tie of sorts to keep the dough from drying out. I place the bowls to proof overnight in the garage (this time of year) or fridge in the warmer months. Next morning I preheat the oven and the DO at 450F. Place your first boule on parchment paper and score. Then pull your DO out and quickly pop it in and get the lid on top and into the oven. Baguettes I use a water pan in the oven for steam. Your steam bake sounds like it would work well. The DO really helps to hold in the moisture/heat with the lid so you get max spring/rise during the 1st step (closed) bake.

I use discard to make sourdough pizza crust (KA Recipe)









Sourdough Pizza Crust


A chewy, flavorful crust, using sourdough starter, perfect with any type of topping.




www.kingarthurbaking.com






I have tweaked this recipe to my liking but it is a great recipe to start with:









The Perfect Loaf: Beginner’s Sourdough Bread - Edible New Mexico







www.ediblenm.com






Amazon sells lots of "starter kits" for bread baking.

I would defiinitely get

Proofing bowls (rattan with cloth liner) for both boules and baguettes
Kitchen scale for accurate weighing of ingredients
Bread Lame
Dough scraper (plastic with straight edge and rounded edge is my favorite)

An oven with a proof setting is really nice to have as well.

You can make some great sourdough pancakes with the discard as well.


----------



## vinny

Thank you! 

I'm off to check Amazon.


----------



## ibglowin

Forgot to mention I feed my starter every 2 weeks. Kept in fridge in a mason jar with lid (loosely on) Every two weeks bake something and use up ~190gms starter and then I feed by adding back 100gms AP flour and 100gms water. Mix well and then let it sit for 3-4 hours on the counter until it shows bubbles and rises to towards the top and then you can place back into the fridge. You don't want to bake then just dump off the 190gms starter and feed as usual.


----------



## vinny

ibglowin said:


> Forgot to mention I feed my starter every 2 weeks. Kept in fridge in a mason jar with lid (loosely on) Every two weeks bake something and use up ~190gms starter and then I feed by adding back 100gms AP flour and 100gms water. Mix well and then let it sit for 3-4 hours on the counter until it shows bubbles and rises to towards the top and then you can place back into the fridge. You don't want to bake then just dump off the 190gms starter and feed as usual.


This is good to know. I was told to leave it out and feed every four days or so. I don't think I will bake often enough, so I was going to look for a fridge method to slow it down. 2 weeks will be a much better cycle.


----------



## ceeaton

vinny said:


> This is good to know. I was told to leave it out and feed every four days or so. I don't think I will bake often enough, so I was going to look for a fridge method to slow it down. 2 weeks will be a much better cycle.


I do the same as Mike but feed every week. And if you invert the inside part of the lid (the flat part) you can tighten down the whole was and the excess gas can still escape, FYI.

Recently I've made a second starter and left it out, feed it every three or four days. It just doesn't have the same acidic punch that the refrigerator starter does, not too sure why, but I'm sure there is a logical explanation, I'll have to text Spock and ask...


----------



## BigDaveK

vinny said:


> This is good to know. I was told to leave it out and feed every four days or so. I don't think I will bake often enough, so I was going to look for a fridge method to slow it down. 2 weeks will be a much better cycle.


King Arthur Baking is usually the first place I check for a recipe. Great info, experienced bakers.
They have good info for starting and maintaining your starter.

Maintaining your sourdough starter

They also have some sourdough discard recipes. Pizza, banana bread, and pretzels are pretty good but the pancakes are definitely my favorite.









Sourdough Discard Recipes


Searching for ways to use sourdough discard in your baking? Look no further! These 16 sourdough discard recipes make the most of that excess starter you have to hang around after feeding your starter. From blueberry muffins to savory pancakes to chocolate cake, you'll never want to throw away...




www.kingarthurbaking.com


----------



## vinny

BigDaveK said:


> King Arthur Baking is usually the first place I check for a recipe. Great info, experienced bakers.
> They have good info for starting and maintaining your starter.
> 
> Maintaining your sourdough starter
> 
> They also have some sourdough discard recipes. Pizza, banana bread, and pretzels are pretty good but the pancakes are definitely my favorite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sourdough Discard Recipes
> 
> 
> Searching for ways to use sourdough discard in your baking? Look no further! These 16 sourdough discard recipes make the most of that excess starter you have to hang around after feeding your starter. From blueberry muffins to savory pancakes to chocolate cake, you'll never want to throw away...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kingarthurbaking.com


Nice, are your bagels sourdough?


----------



## BigDaveK

vinny said:


> Nice, are your bagels sourdough?


Haven't made sourdough bagels but bagels are in my near future. I ordered some high gluten flour (from King Arthur!) over the weekend as a matter of fact.


----------



## JBP

In addition to the KA discard recipes, I utilize this one constantly for making crackers - change the flavors as desired, sometimes sea salt/garlic, other times herb blends or "everything bagel seasoning". Occasionally even a slightly sweet version with cinnamon sugar. These disappear quickly in our house. 

My sourdough feeding schedule depends on how much 'tang' I desire...


----------



## vinny

JBP said:


> My sourdough feeding schedule depends on how much 'tang' I desire...


I like a sourdough with good tang so I will have to experiment with the ranges.

When is it too late? I have made starters in the past and let them go WAY too far after not getting great results. They have been a pain to start so I would like to make sure I know my outer limit to keep this healthy. Is 2 weeks pushing the time spent in the fridge, or if I got distracted for a week could I bring it back easily?


----------



## ceeaton

vinny said:


> I like a sourdough with good tang so I will have to experiment with the ranges.
> 
> When is it too late? I have made starters in the past and let them go WAY too far after not getting great results. They have been a pain to start so I would like to make sure I know my outer limit to keep this healthy. Is 2 weeks pushing the time spent in the fridge, or if I got distracted for a week could I bring it back easily?


Some worry when you get a "grey" water on top. It's just the alcohol the culture produces when feeding on the goodies you put in every couple of weeks. I have had no issues going three weeks, after that you are in uncharted territory as far as I'm concerned. I use bread flour to feed mine, might use whole wheat if I'm gonna make a whole wheat loaf in the near future. I think the whole wheat has more goodies that get it cranking pretty good, even in the fridge.

One thing, check the temp where you put it in the fridge. I have mine up top where it runs in the high 30s, in the bottom it runs in the very low 30s. The colder it's environment, the longer it can last between feedings. That's why you can do 2 weeks in the fridge, but need to do it more often in ambient kitchen temps, but in the great white north where you are, you can probably go longer than 4 days outside the fridge.


----------



## BigDaveK

vinny said:


> I like a sourdough with good tang so I will have to experiment with the ranges.
> 
> When is it too late? I have made starters in the past and let them go WAY too far after not getting great results. They have been a pain to start so I would like to make sure I know my outer limit to keep this healthy. Is 2 weeks pushing the time spent in the fridge, or if I got distracted for a week could I bring it back easily?


I like a good tang also. The main thing, of course, is the yeast strain. You can buy starters with yeast from all over the world but I've read that eventually your local yeast will take over. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but it makes sense.

There are other ways to increase tang:









Part II — How to Make Sourdough More (or Less) Sour







brodandtaylor.com





Funny thing, I have the Brod&Taylor folding proofer, a wonderful device, but I use it to make a gallon of yogurt each week. Better than anything store bought!!!


----------



## vinny

BigDaveK said:


> You can buy starters with yeast from all over the world but I've read that eventually your local yeast will take over.


This week it is RC-212. Last week was D-47... I wonder how those 'local' yeast are going to play into the equation.


----------



## BigDaveK

Baking day!
Just transferred my hazelnut wine to secondary today and didn't want to waste the nuts. Hazelnut biscotti!!
I think biscotti means "twice baked". That's pretty much what you do - partially bake, slice, bake again.
Turned out really well! Tastes great! I have enough for another batch and I think that one will get the chocolate treatment.


----------



## vinny

ceeaton said:


> I think the whole wheat has more goodies that get it cranking pretty good, even in the fridge.


I used whole wheat. I think I will give it a bit on the fridge to get used to my flour, maybe let local yeast get settled. Also, I can build up some courage.


----------



## ceeaton

vinny said:


> I used whole wheat. I think I will give it a bit on the fridge to get used to my flour, maybe let local yeast get settled. Also, I can build up some courage.


No courage needed. Life is a big experiment, just have fun. You might fail, but most times that I do fail I learn more than when it works out just okay.

As Alton Brown says in most of his books, learn to "play" with your food. Play meaning, don't take it all so serious (aka, don't try and make a recipe the first time when your boss is coming over to your house for the first time, lol).


----------



## vinny

ceeaton said:


> No courage needed. Life is a big experiment, just have fun. You might fail, but most times that I do fail I learn more than when it works out just okay.
> 
> As Alton Brown says in most of his books, learn to "play" with your food. Play meaning, don't take it all so serious (aka, don't try and make a recipe the first time when your boss is coming over to your house for the first time, lol).


Trouble is I am my boss, and I am here every night. The pressure is indescribable. 

I really like to cook, and I have a good reign on the kitchen. However, with involved cooks where I am not familiar, I can lose myself. Hours go by and everything has been used and it is still on the counter. Too busy focusing on new oven features, warming dutch oven's, fancy cuts.

So maybe not courage, I just gotta get a grip on it first.


----------



## BigDaveK

After sourdough this is one of my favorite breads - Pain de Mie.
Wonderful slightly sweet flavor. Almost like a soft biscuit. The pullman pan isn't necessary but it's traditional.


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## winemanden

When I worked in a Bakehouse as a young chap, we just used to flip the loaf tin upside down to get the square loaves.


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## BigDaveK

winemanden said:


> When I worked in a Bakehouse as a young chap, we just used to flip the loaf tin upside down to get the square loaves.


I laughed so hard when I read that because it's so painfully obvious!
I've read many clever ideas over the years to mimic the Pullman pan and I never saw one that said flip the darn loaf pan.
What a hoot!


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## ceeaton

BigDaveK said:


> I laughed so hard when I read that because it's so painfully obvious!
> I've read many clever ideas over the years to mimic the Pullman pan and I never saw one that said flip the darn loaf pan.
> What a hoot!


I saw a Pullman pan when I picked up a larger loaf pan at the restaurant supply place I frequent, thinking my youngest daughter would like if I used one since she asks why the bread I make isn't "square", lol.

She eats it no matter what shape it is, she has her mom's family genes (a stick of butter is mandatory when eating any amount of bread, even a few slices). She is nearly as tall as I am, so it must do something to make her grow taller... I think it's the crust (at least that is what my grandma used to tell me, also makes your hair curly).


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## ibglowin

Made some baguettes this AM. Made a yeast starter last night and let it proof overnight and added it this AM. Not the prettiest but darn tasty. This is non sourdough. 75%AP - 25% Bread flour. Maybe I will try an egg wash one of these days and see how that comes out.


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## ceeaton

ibglowin said:


> Made some baguettes this AM. Made a yeast starter last night and let it proof overnight and added it this AM. Not the prettiest but darn tasty. This is non sourdough. 75%AP - 25% Bread flour. Maybe I will try an egg wash one of these days and see how that comes out.
> 
> View attachment 97229


Egg washes do wonders, I'm just usually too lazy to make/apply one. I'm making a big (18") loaf of basic bread for my daughter today, I'll add egg wash to half of it so I can see what a big difference it makes, then maybe I'll apply more often (on bagels too).

It just started it's rise in the pan, pictures in a couple of hours, hopefully. Rather cool in the kitchen today, risin' may be hampered.


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## vinny

I have had my starter on the fridge for about 10 days. I have fed it twice and plan to move it inside the fridge after this next feeding. It is very active, in 3 days it is doubling in size and falling so am not worried that there is any issue with the flour changes. I was adding 25 grams of starter to 100 grams of flour and 100g water. 

@ibglowin you said use 190 and top up with 100 grams of each, as above, I just want to make sure that that also the ratio that I should use to store it in the fridge. You use about 20g to activate your next batch?


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## ibglowin

vinny said:


> I have had my starter on the fridge for about 10 days. I have fed it twice and plan to move it inside the fridge after this next feeding. It is very active, in 3 days it is doubling in size and falling so am not worried that there is any issue with the flour changes. I was adding 25 grams of starter to 100 grams of flour and 100g water.
> 
> @ibglowin you said use 190 and top up with 100 grams of each, as above, I just want to make sure that that also the ratio that I should use to store it in the fridge. You use about 20g to activate your next batch?



No, when I make sourdough bread I will take ~190gms of starter off and add that to my flour. That is my leaven for my bread. Then I feed whats left in the mason jar 100gms flour and 100gms water and mix well and let it sit for ~4-5 hours and then back into the fridge for up to 2 weeks before I feed/bake next. There might be ~50gms left in the jar of leftover starter and that's enough to keep it going.


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## vinny

Thank you!


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## ceeaton

Humm, maybe it was melted butter that browned it up? It looks darker, but more like the dark Varis gets on his Tesla after waxing it every morning....




Excuse me, when he pays someone to wax it every morning, lol.

Varis, we love you, you're our favorite!


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## ceeaton

Finally found some leads on this Gold Medal (aka General Mills) pizza flour. It's Gold Medal™ Neapolitan Pizza Flour Hearth Style Pizza 50 lb

Turns out its an unblemished (no bromate, no bleach, I think no enrichment) bread flour with a 12% protein content. I do like it for NY style doughs, I'll have to see if I can get a 50 lb sack from the restaurant store. I like the Trumps (also Gen Mills) but the ones I can get are bromated and bleached for the most part.


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## ceeaton

An overnight white sourdough bread (also added commercial yeast for leavaning). Was a bit wet (may have had too many fingers of beer when I made up the initial dough) and stuck to the banneton liner. Deflated, thought I was out a loaf of bread, bounced back nicely during the dutch oven cook.




A few (7) doughs on deck for pizza making later this afternoon. Need to keep my hands busy so I don't chew my nails to nothing while listening to the Eagles football game.


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## vinny

I went to feed my starter yesterday, It was maybe 4 days since I last fed it. One full day since it fell. *Strong* acetone smell. I scooped off the top and moved the bottom less pungent starter to a new jar and fed it with 100 grams of flour and water. It's doubled since last night. I am going to feed it again right away. Should I move it to the fridge in a few hours or feed it again tomorrow to make sure everything is healthy and happy?

Edit... I was using half AP flour and whole wheat. Red Fife and Einkorn. I only used AP this time to try and tone down the aggressive ferment.


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## ibglowin

That's a perfectly normal smell and feeding it will make it happy. Check out this page.









21 Common Sourdough Starter Problems with Easy Solutions [Sourdough Starter Troubleshooting]


Most common sourdough starter problems and easy solutions. A must read FAQ for anyone trying to establish a sourdough starter.




www.pantrymama.com


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## BigDaveK

vinny said:


> I went to feed my starter yesterday, It was maybe 4 days since I last fed it. One full day since it fell. *Strong* acetone smell. I scooped off the top and moved the bottom less pungent starter to a new jar and fed it with 100 grams of flour and water. It's doubled since last night. I am going to feed it again right away. Should I move it to the fridge in a few hours or feed it again tomorrow to make sure everything is healthy and happy?


Acetone smell isn't bad or uncommon. Separation with the brownish "hooch" on top isn't bad either. Both signs usually mean the starter is hungry.
Mold is bad. Streaks of orange or pink are bad. Signs to start over.
My starter spends 90% of it's life in the fridge.


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## vinny

Excellent, thank you gents. I was worried it was stressed. Into the fridge it goes.


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## cmason1957

When I first read acetone smell and brownish color, I guess I hadn't paid attention to the thread title. So when I read, don't worry about it, that's normal I was a little bit concerned. Then I realized bread thread. Nevermind.


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## Merrywine

Enriched sourdough with fig and sultanas.


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