# Carboy's What do you recommend?



## sly22guy (Jan 4, 2010)

Im looking into getting set up. Is there any advantage over the glass carboy's or are the better bottles just as good? Im leaning towards them as they are lighter and will not break as easily.


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## TheTooth (Jan 4, 2010)

I've only been using them for a couple years, but so far I'm really happy with my Better Bottles.


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## rawlus (Jan 4, 2010)

i prefer better bottles for the most part, mostly long-term bulk aging, but i still keep a few glass around for vacuum degassing as you can't do that with a better bottle.


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## BettyJ (Jan 4, 2010)

I use the 5 gallon water containers and have never had a problem. I live in Belize, so cannot get real carboys here


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## deboard (Jan 4, 2010)

I have a couple of the water bottles, but I'm moving toward glass slowly. The water bottles have a 3 in a triangle on the bottom, which means it's polyvinyl chloride, or PVC. Mine have worked, but the information I found on it says it does allow oxygen in. I know others that use these and have no problems though. 

I am interested in the better bottles though, they are cheaper and I've heard good things.


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## Wade E (Jan 4, 2010)

The plastic ones are flimsy so if you pick 1 up you can easily squeeze wine right out of it or out the airlock and then when you let go youll suck the liquid right through the airlock into your wine which could contaminate your wine. You cant use a plastic carboy if you plan on vacuum degassing or vacuum racking. They are nice and light though. You also have to be careful cleaning them as if you scratch them then bacteria can hide in those scratches.


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## sly22guy (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks for the input! Seems as though maybe ill get the kit with the glass one so that i have one and then pick up an extra better bottle.


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## rawlus (Jan 4, 2010)

if you use a 3-piece airlock, the suctioning problems with better bottles can be avoided easily by simply removing the inner cap momentarily. usually you're moving them for some reason or purpose like racking so breaking the airlock seal is no big deal. it is also minimized if you lift them from the bottom rather than the neck. they do flex though - for me, a small tradeoff for durability, affordability and light weight.

ive never been particularly "careful" with the better bottles and they look as good now as they did brand new. no scratching, i dont think ive ever seen one scratched on the inside. i think youd have to work pretty hard to do that.

i am much more careful with the heavy, slippery, fragile glass carboys i have - i use them as minimally as possible, primarily for vacuum degassing.


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## padre (Jan 5, 2010)

I've opted for plastic, as a glass jug exploded from pressure in my kitchen once. (My mother had filled it with pennies, because she liked the look.) Fortunately nobody was anywhere near it, so we just got the heck scared out of us.

Glass shrapnel covered a frightening radius.

I understand it's not a common occurrence, but I just don't ever want to see that happen in my house again.


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## sly22guy (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah think ill just go with the better bottles to start and see how it works. I also had a Glass jug explode from pennies too. Im planning on making my wine down at my bar and we have parties from time to time and id rather not have to worry bout somone one breaking a 6 gallon carboy and wine everywhere!


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## sly22guy (Jan 5, 2010)

Wow i just went on the better bottle website, they have alot of info and tricks to using there product. from racking to degassing and bottling. Think this is def the way to go. Im gona go pick them up afterwork today


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## DageonYar (Jan 5, 2010)

Moral of the story is... Glass Carboys are great for making wine. But don't store pennies in em... 

I'd worry about scratches in the plastic jugs... I keep reading about bacteria that grow inside those tiny scratches that are difficult to get out.


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## rawlus (Jan 5, 2010)

i might worry about scratches in plastic jugs like ferment buckets and whatnot, but PET better bottles are an entirely different material. and the material is hydrophobic so it cleans and sanitizes very easily, perhaps even easier than glass which has billions of microscopic cavities in it.

most of the mythology about better bottles is scientifically untrue. some prefer glass, some prefer PET, some use both, but there is no right answer. both materials will perform fine for winemaking.


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## sly22guy (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah i dont plan on storing pennies in them. With all of the extra change going into my little vinyard i wont have to worry bout where to put my pennies!!!


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## xanxer82 (Jan 5, 2010)

I havee 2 6 gallon better bottles and just got a 6 gal glass carboy for christmas.
Better bottles are great. Light, durable, makes it easy to degas (not by pump though).
I'm using my glass for bulk aging. Currently filled with Malbec and will sit for another month or so.
I use my Better bottles for secondary fermentation and clearing. After that It can go to glass for aging if it needs it. Other than that I let things bottle age.
It's really a matter of personal preference.


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## cpfan (Jan 5, 2010)

Just browsing the latest blog entries at Winemaker magazine, and read an informative article on PET carboys. Note: this is about Better Bottles or other PET plastic carboys designed for wine making, not necessarily PET plastic water bottes.

http://www.winemakermag.com/blogs/should-i-be-concerned-about-plastic-carboys-.html

Steve


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## Wade E (Jan 5, 2010)

Cppl, I never knew they wetre actually better hen glass as far as cleaning them. Good info. I still like glass for my system due to vacuum properties though.


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## TheTooth (Jan 5, 2010)

Scratching should not be an issue with your BetterBottles unless you try to use a bottle brush in them. Just let some oxyclean or PBW (with hot water) soak in them for a few hours and they will be sparkling clean.


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## Green Mountains (Jan 5, 2010)

We're currently migrating towards Better Bottles as well. We have one now and 4 glass......the glass are important for degassing but so damn heavy when full of 6 gallons of wine.

We're too new at this to be 'purists' so we have no problem experimenting with improvements in the hobby.


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## TheTooth (Jan 5, 2010)

xanxer82 said:


> I havee 2 6 gallon better bottles and just got a 6 gal glass carboy for christmas.
> Better bottles are great. Light, durable, makes it easy to degas (not by pump though).
> I'm using my glass for bulk aging. Currently filled with Malbec and will sit for another month or so.
> I use my Better bottles for secondary fermentation and clearing. After that It can go to glass for aging if it needs it. Other than that I let things bottle age.
> It's really a matter of personal preference.



How are the Better bottles easier to degass than the glass? I use BetterBottles and I'm always looking for ways to make degassing easier.


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## padre (Jan 5, 2010)

DageonYar said:


> Moral of the story is... Glass Carboys are great for making wine. But don't store pennies in em...



Yeah, I think that really *is* the moral of the story.

Although I do know of a few statistically anomalous horror stories of explosive glass carboy brewing incidents.


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## TheTooth (Jan 5, 2010)

padre said:


> Yeah, I think that really *is* the moral of the story.
> 
> Although I do know of a few statistically anomalous horror stories of explosive glass carboy brewing incidents.



Yeah... and I've seen pictures of some pretty nasty gashes from people dropping carboy's full of beer. Kept me using buckets until I decided to ferment in cornies.


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## Loren (Jan 5, 2010)

So, am I hearing that the 5 gallon plastic water jugs are safe as far as chemical release is concerned. I hear all kinds of stories about not using them, I want to be safe, but worry a little about it.


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## cpfan (Jan 5, 2010)

Loren said:


> So, am I hearing that the 5 gallon plastic water jugs are safe as far as chemical release is concerned. I hear all kinds of stories about not using them, I want to be safe, but worry a little about it.


You are NOT Hearing that from me. The water bottles are made of various different plastics. Even the PET water bottles are made from different PET plastic than the Better Bottles.

There is no evidence that I have seen that manufacturers design/test water bottles to hold wine or beer.

Steve


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## BarnOwl (Jan 8, 2010)

This is a great topic for a newbie like me. I looked at several web sites trying to find a recent article on the safety of PET. The best article was on a plastic info web site. http://www.plasticsinfo.org/s_plasticsinfo/sec_generic.asp?CID=657&DID=2605 If you look at the references, the newest is 2001. The BPA controversy didn't surface until 2008. Until I can find a newer study, my wines will use glass.


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## DageonYar (Jan 8, 2010)

Snippet from Wiki:
"Possible toxicity of PET

An article published in Environmental Health Perspectives in November 2009 presented evidence that PET may yield endocrine disruptors under conditions of common use. Possible mechanisms include leaching of phthalates as well as leaching of antimony.[10] The risk of leaching appears to increase as a function of storage temperature and storage duration."

- http://ehsehplp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1289/ehp.0901253
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate#Possible_toxicity_of_PET


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## arcticsid (Jan 9, 2010)

This argument goes on and on. I recently bought a couple Better Bottles(3 gals), they are NOT the collapsible type but are square and rigid. Personally, in my opinion only, they are easier to handle(weight wise) and apparently are safe for use with alcohol, even for long term bulk aging. I will post the website for them in a second. Decide for yourself. This is a subject I brought up in the begining days of my wine making "obsession" and I refuse to keep it going. We may as well argue whether or not you like Toyotas, Chevy's, or Fords.

Use the search engine in here and see the 500,000 threads and posts about this. I would prefer to use glass, and the better bottles are about the same cost. The bung is the same diameter as glass and anything that can be used on glass will work for a "Better Bottle"

Troy


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## arcticsid (Jan 9, 2010)

Here is the link for the "Better Bottle" site.

http://www.better-bottle.com/technical_left.html

Until someone comes up with some proof either way, I am personally about tired of hearing this discussion. We have better things to discuss.

I am not a sales rep for Better Bottles, and I am by no means a chemist. but the Better Bottles work for me, and what ever you all choose to use, I hope it works well for you as well.

Troy


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## Wade E (Jan 9, 2010)

Just use what ever makes you feel better. this topic will likely never ever be resolved as to the is plastic bad for you just like the Aluminum vrs Stainless steel in any beer forum where they think Alzheimer's is linked to aluminum.


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## cpfan (Jan 9, 2010)

I think many of us agree that the Better Bottle and glass carboys are acceptable for wine-making, although we will each have our preferences.

The problem, in my eyes, is the people who think that the standard water cooler bottle is the same as a Better Bottle. It isn't.

BTW, Troy, the 6 US gallon Better Bottles take a #10 bung (at least the three I own do). I don't know about the 3 USG ones, but will take your word that it is the same as a glass carboy (#6.5 bung).

Steve


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## Runningwolf (Jan 9, 2010)

I agree with Wade and Steve on this one. Stick to either glass or Better Bottles and use the one that best suites you. *I prefer glass carboys* but if I had back issues or problems lifting carboys and no other means for racking, I would go with Better Bottles in a heart beat.


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## richmke (Sep 24, 2014)

> The researchers found that as the temperature rose and time passed, increasingly high levels of antimony were detectable in the bottles of water. Specifically, at 77° F, the release of antimony increased by as much as twofold over that at the cooler temperature — although the levels of the trace metal varied by brand, increasing significantly at 77 degrees F in only six out of 16 brands.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/health/why-you-shouldnt-drink-warm-bottled-water-98234856882.html



Antimony is needed to make PET, so cannot be avoided. Lots of studies show slow leaching, although not to harmful levels. I have not found studies on whether alcohol would affect leaching speeds. One would assume that over time, that the Antimony is eventually depleted.


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