# Identifying these grapes!



## MDH (Apr 1, 2015)

Hello All.

Last year a friend had a wine consultant tour his private vineyard. She informed him that his Pinot Noir was not, in fact, Pinot Noir, but possibly a hybrid. Her reasons for this were that the leaf structure was not consistent, and that some berries were of a slightly different color when fully ripe. However, she did not specify what she suspected they were.

As you can see, there are actually two types of leaf visible in the pictures.

Do we have anyone who can identify varieties?

(apologize for no leaf close ups, we can not get those until this summer).


----------



## grapeman (Apr 2, 2015)

While it is very difficult to identify specific varieties of grapes from just a couple pictures people often want to know the exact variety. A detailed leaf analysis might narrow down the search, but is very hard to do from a couple pictures. With that said, I could offer one variety that it could possibly be - a University of Minnesota hybrid named Marquette. The clusters have the same look as Marquette, complete with the large wing (shoulder). The color is the same also being a dark blue almost black color. The leaves have a very similar shape and serations. The trunk stays on the thin side like in the picture. Another reason they may have been called Pinot Noir is that Pinot is a grandparent of Marquette.

Here is a picture from Marquette


----------



## GreginND (Apr 2, 2015)

Where is this vineyard located? And do you have any idea when it was planted? That might give a clue as to what hybrid varietals might have been available then.


----------



## ibglowin (Apr 2, 2015)

IP is coming out of BC, somewhere near Vancouver so very well could be a cold hardy hybrid of sorts.


----------



## salcoco (Apr 2, 2015)

pinot noir has many clones, could it be one of them?


----------



## vacuumpumpman (Apr 2, 2015)

I googled frontenac grapes and it seems to have alot of similarities


----------



## JDC (Apr 2, 2015)

*Marechal Foch*

With the small berries, looks like my Marechal Foch vines


----------



## GreginND (Apr 2, 2015)

BC grapes - could likely be Marechal Foch. Could it be cab franc? I think that is grown up there quite a bit. Here's a list of other varieties grown in BC.

http://www.winesofcanada.com/grapes-bcvar.html


----------



## grapeman (Apr 2, 2015)

I will definitely say they are NOT Frontenac grapes. Nothing at all like them. The leaves are totally different and the clusters of Frontenac are large and loose with blue grapes, not blue/black.
The area they are growing in would help a lot.

Here is another picture of Marquette ripe and ready to pick. Note the winged shoulder in the one in my hand. Also these are ripe and the ones shown were a week or two before being ripe. That's why the different colors.


----------



## GreginND (Apr 3, 2015)

On another note, who is pruning those vines? I would be concerned about the fact that the canes are being cut off just past the clusters. They can't ripen properly without leaves.


----------



## grapeman (Apr 3, 2015)

That was one of the first things I noticed. Vines will ripen the crop eventually when the bearing shoots are cut off short as long as the vine has plenty of leaves overall. It takes 12 to 15 leaves to ripen the grapes per couple clusters. It also takes longer because the carbohydrates need to move around the vine to get to the clusters. Leaving those 12 to 15 leaves per shoot to ripen the grapes is much more efficient. You do better to remove the leaves around the clusters such as in my next to last picture (VSP).


----------



## MDH (Apr 4, 2015)

I agree GreginND. I am not the owner of the vineyard and haven't been taking care of it until recently. They present owners purchased the property in 2010, but have not been using any particular technique to train the vines, so they are a bit overgrown. The original owner also died years ago, so we're unable to find out from him.

The main issue is that upon close inspection of the vine, there are actually several different types of leafs. Meanwhile, we are planning to restore the vineyard this year and have already done some pruning.

Thank you for all of your input. I will happily post pictures of the leafs early this summer.


----------



## Sage (Apr 4, 2015)

I guess a question is in order. What does the wine taste like?? It should give some hint of variety??


----------



## MDH (Apr 4, 2015)

Last year the owner did not trim off any excess grapes. So it was difficult to tell as they did not ripen properly. The wine made from it tasted rather like Pinot Noir but had a very slight hint of something like watermelon.


----------

