# cayuga vs. vignoles



## countrygirl (Jan 8, 2012)

looking for a little feedback from u grape growers...just got my dirt turned over today!!!
definitely putting in chardonel this spring, but trying to decide between cayuga or vignoles for my second row...
i am in far western kentucky, one of the river counties. it is a south facing slope (couldnt get a north facing slope) and the rows run east/west...
i will have the opportunity to question other local grape growers at the end of this month, but i always value the advice i find here...


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## grapeman (Jan 8, 2012)

To make it easier for you to grow, I would use Vignoles and train similarly to the Chardonel. Both of them are fairly upright, where the Cayuga will sprawl a lot as it is a vigorous grower. On the other hand the Vignoles has tight clusters and can give a botrytis problem. Maybe put in a half row of each or three rows altogether and plant one of each.


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## djrockinsteve (Jan 8, 2012)

I made 12 gallons of vignoles last year. Excellent even with the higher acid.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 8, 2012)

djrockinsteve said:


> I made 12 gallons of vignoles last year. Excellent even with the higher acid.



I second that Steve.


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## saddlebronze (Jan 8, 2012)

A most interesting question that I am going through right now myself. The best advice I have read is to taste the wines from both grapes if you can and select based on which one you like better. They both make good slightly sweet wines, and both grow well here in the northeast. I have ordered half rows of a number of varieties for my test plot, but only because I had not tasted the wines first.


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## REDBOATNY (Jan 8, 2012)

I have some vignoles almost ready to bottle. I made it for my brother, definately has a unique taste, more complex than cayuga. Both are readily available in the finger lakes region of new york. I don't know about ease of growing, but the vignoles/ ravat 51 from Cornell is a keeper.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 8, 2012)

Red Boat, It gets even better 6 months later in the bottle.


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## REDBOATNY (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Dan, I have tried alot of Vignoles around here on the wine tours, and have been intrigued by the complex taste. But why does every winery finish so sweet? It is good now dry, hope to balance it at about 1.5% to maybe 3% R.S. most around here are 5% to 7%. I found the same with Catawba, at about2% R.S. it is very refreshing with great citrus overtones. I guess the general public wine tourist like sugar. I can't wait to prep this wine for bottling.


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## grapeman (Jan 8, 2012)

I find the same thing when selling my wines here. A lot of visitors are surprised by the refreshing tastes of a lot of these wines finished a bit less sweet. They come in bragging they have had a lot of FL wines and they are the best out there. Then they try some with less sugar and most agree they like them better.


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## Runningwolf (Jan 8, 2012)

I think some wines like Niagara need to be a little higher. Myself I prefer most between 1.5-3% R.S. The wineries that try to make it on good dry wines alone will fail IMO. The general public as you said prefer a semi to sweet wine.


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## REDBOATNY (Jan 8, 2012)

I agree, but I have seen the folks in our group progress into dryer wines as their tastes mature. The ones who used to only like syrup now enjoy a 0% Baco Noir. There is still hope. I am one of the few that can appreciate almost the full spectrum. 

OOPs I think we are sending this thread down a sideroad. Sorry.


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## countrygirl (Jan 9, 2012)

no problem redboat, i enjoy reading everyones info...we turned over enough for two rows that will hold 12 vines each (and still leaving some room for expansion and/or blackberries in the near future). just wanted some firm info before ordering vines. one of our local wineries does have some vignoles for sale, but i'm not sure anyone local has cayuga for sale. i will ask at the west ky winegrowers meeting/annual contest later this month.


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## grapeman (Jan 9, 2012)

Check to see if they are growing virus free vines. A lot of vines, especially Chardonel have become infected with virus and aren't as productive as they should be. You might also want to consider getting them on grafted rootstock. Ask the local growers how they grow if own-rooted there. You could buy virus free vines for some varieties at online suppliers and be sure of the quality. It saves you a ton of money and time in the future when you start with good known plant materials.

Best of luck to you with the vineyard!


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## countrygirl (Jan 9, 2012)

thanks grapeman, i will definitely ask...i hadn't realized that about the chardonel...there is alot of chardonel here in this portion of the state, but i'm familiar with it and love the wine. (love it backsweetened slightly with goat cheese smothered french bread, toasted in the oven with caramelized onions and mushrooms, yum yum)
double a vineyards is who i've been in touch with and have their catalog, out of new york.


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