# Done with MLF, now at a crossroads!



## Busabill (Dec 30, 2015)

Hey fellow winemakers, so I'm done with MLF on my zin and my Cabernet, it took about 3 months to get fully done. I ran out of test strips but the taste has rounded nicely and it has been 3 months so I'm calling it done at this point. And I'm ready to rack and bulk age and add some K meta but I have been doing a lot of reading on bulk aging with stoppers. Probably too much reading. What is your opinion? Continue to bulk age with airlocks or put on solid stoppers from here on out? I am concerned with solid stoppers popping out with pressure changes in the winter and that sort of thing and really don't mind tending to the airlock but was wondering what your opinion was? Is there a solid argument for either? It seems I'm reading a lot of literature that is conflicting on the issue. Anything else to watch for when I rack and add SO2? This is my first time doing it from grapes as most of you know. I have 6 gallons of Cabernet and 5 gallons of Zinfandel and thinking I will bulk age it for 6 months and then bottle.. If it makes any difference I am using plastic carboys as I have small children and don't want to use glass and I'm going to add French oak cubes once I rack. I have an eight ounce bag of french oak cubes and thinking half a bag in each carboy. Is this too much? Thanks! And cheers!


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## Boatboy24 (Dec 30, 2015)

Busabill said:


> I am concerned with solid stoppers popping out with pressure changes in the winter and that sort of thing and really don't mind tending to the airlock



I feel the same way. And with s-type airlocks, I can easily see if I have an airtight seal or not. No way to tell that with a solid stopper. So for now, I've not gone to solid stoppers. 

(Although I did buy one with the barrel I just purchased and I'm going to give it a try.)


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## sdelli (Dec 30, 2015)

All sounds good what you are doing. I use airlocks and a few of the bungs that breath but seal... I do not go solid until I bottle. I would check on the time frame you can store in plastic carboys... I am not sure since I only use glass. 6 months and bottling is ok I guess.... The longer the better but I do know a few people that bottle after a few months. Mine goes a year and a half. I will bottle 2014 crush in March or April next year. Just make sure it is done settling or you will get sediment in your bottles.


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## NorCal (Dec 31, 2015)

I'm partial to these stoppers and have never had one come out. They can also be used during fermentation/mlf as they let co2 out without letting oxygen in. I would really watch your SO2 levels if you are bulk aging in plastic. I would definitely look into glass carboys and put them out if reach from the little ones.


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## Floandgary (Dec 31, 2015)

READ,,READ,,READ!!! Many, many posts on the reasons to use airlocks vs. solid until in the bottle and corked when aging in a solid glass unyielding carboy.


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## Busabill (Jan 4, 2016)

Hey Norcal, so what is the stopper to the far left with the blue thing on the partial carboy? A way to fill the carboy with gas?


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## Boatboy24 (Jan 4, 2016)

Busabill said:


> Hey Norcal, so what is the stopper to the far left with the blue thing on the partial carboy? A way to fill the carboy with gas?



Why, its the AllInOne Headspace Eliminator! 

http://www.allinonewinepump.com/product/headspace-eliminator/


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## Busabill (Jan 4, 2016)

So I racked my two carboys 2 days ago coming off of MLF and each one was racked to a half inch below the bung and today I looked at them and one is about 3 inches below the bung with a bunch of the oak floating and one of them is about an inch below the bung with the oak floating. What do you think caused the levels to drop so much? The storm we have in the area with the pressure dropping? The oak was already floating so I don't think it floated up and caused it. Very weird. Is it because I'm using plastic carboys? What do you guys think? Add wine? Is it a problem if any of the oak floats with spoilage etc?. Like I said there was only a half inch of head space between the bung and the wine two days ago.


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## Busabill (Jan 4, 2016)

Here is a picture of the Cabernet which dropped about 3 inches.


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## saddlebronze (Jan 4, 2016)

The wine soaking into the oak as well as pressure and temperature changes can cause this. If the wine was room temp and you cool it, the volume will decrease. It will come back up when it warms back up. I think the wine has soaked into the oak. What I do is get a bottle of very neutral tasting merlot and top it up to the knuckle of the carboy. If you have 1/8 tsp of meta in there you should be fine for a few months. Then I would rack, re-meta and bottle. Long term storage in plastic not recommended.


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## Thormo (Feb 17, 2016)

We switch to solid bungs as soon as ML is complete. There is no need for an airlock as your wine is no longer "working". If your temperature variations are causing your solid bungs to pop off, then you need to find another location for your wine so that temp variations are not a factor. We hold wine for 3 years in Betterboy carboys with no issues.


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## JohnT (Feb 18, 2016)

Thormo said:


> We switch to solid bungs as soon as ML is complete. There is no need for an airlock as your wine is no longer "working". If your temperature variations are causing your solid bungs to pop off, then you need to find another location for your wine so that temp variations are not a factor. We hold wine for 3 years in Betterboy carboys with no issues.



my suggestion is that if the solid bungs are popping off, then you can always switch back to fermentation traps. i age wine for 2 years or more with fermentation traps without a single problem (even as much as 6 years). just because MLF is complete does not mean that the wine is inert. there is still plenty that happens as wine ages. IMHO, it is better to not trap any pressue that might occur (even though it is minor).


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## Busabill (Mar 26, 2016)

Hey wine lovers. So an update on my first attempt at wine from grapes. I started oaking the zinfandel and the cabernet on January 1st after pulling them off of MLF so the end of this month will be 3 months on the medium French oak cubes. I'm thinking 3 months is probably good to rack them off the oak although I've not tasted them in a month or so. What do you guys think? It's been 3 months so I'm thinking I need to either give them some Kmeta and bottle, or Kmeta and rack back into carboys. My only issue is I don't have glass carboys, just plastic. They're 6 gallons each. Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated. Thanks and cheers!!


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## Johnd (Mar 26, 2016)

Busabill said:


> Hey wine lovers. So an update on my first attempt at wine from grapes. I started oaking the zinfandel and the cabernet on January 1st after pulling them off of MLF so the end of this month will be 3 months on the medium French oak cubes. I'm thinking 3 months is probably good to rack them off the oak although I've not tasted them in a month or so. What do you guys think? It's been 3 months so I'm thinking I need to either give them some Kmeta and bottle, or Kmeta and rack back into carboys. My only issue is I don't have glass carboys, just plastic. They're 6 gallons each. Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated. Thanks and cheers!!



Not terribly concerned about using plastic carboys as long as they're food safe and don't leach plastic taste. 

Only your taste buds can determine if the wine is oaked to your liking. The oak falls back as you age, so make sure it's sufficient before you bottle, if not, patience, time, and some new oak. Rack em into your new carboys with new oak, leave whatever sediment you have behind and stay the course. Test for SO2 if you can, add what you need based on your Ph. If you don't have SO2 testing capabilities, use the 1/4 tsp / 6 gallon estimate.


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## Busabill (Mar 28, 2016)

So I just tasted it and it is not overly oakey but very delightful Damn Delicious!. I do not think I will oak it anymore so then the question becomes do I rack it and let it age for another three months or just bottle it and be done? Pros cons? It would be nice to bottle it and be done and have the wine ready but it is tempting to rack it and let it age more in bulk. Thoughts?


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## Johnd (Mar 28, 2016)

Whatever the level of oak is that you taste now, it'll fall back with age. Try to oak it a tad past your taste and let it come back to you in the aging process.


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## Busabill (Mar 28, 2016)

Ok John, sounds good. Maybe I will do a little American Oak this time as the last round was French.


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## Busabill (Mar 29, 2016)

Something else I am debating adding a little bit of tannin in the next round of oaking as well to the cab. I love a big bold wine with a good amount of finish but I have never played around with adding tannin before. Is it the same as with Oak? Will tannin fall back as it ages as well? Anybody have any good advice for adding tannins?


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## Johnd (Mar 29, 2016)

Busabill said:


> Something else I am debating adding a little bit of tannin in the next round of oaking as well to the cab. I love a big bold wine with a good amount of finish but I have never played around with adding tannin before. Is it the same as with Oak? Will tannin fall back as it ages as well? Anybody have any good advice for adding tannins?



Tannins and oak both mellow with age, and in a great wine, the balance between the two, the fruit, and the alcohol are in harmony. I add tannins in primary fermentation to help with color retention, occasionally when I transfer to glass, but haven't done much in the finishing stages. Do some searching on the forum, there are lots of blurbs in there about tannins. I've read some good stuff here about Tannin Riche Extra as a finishing tannin, along with a couple of others. 

I'm certainly no expert in supplemental tannin additions, so somebody else jump in here with some time tried and tested experiences.


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## Busabill (Mar 29, 2016)

That is good to know, thanks, I will do a little research! I'm also debating taking a gallon of my 6 gallons of zinfandel and fortifying it to make a port, which I've never done. I know there is a port section in the forums so I'll go read up. Does anyone know if I'll run into issues doing that since I'm already in the oaking/fininshing stages with the zin? Any port advice there or things to watch for there?


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