# Chilean Wine Adventure



## Boatboy24 (May 20, 2013)

I thought I'd document the progress on my first attempt at using juice buckets. So, here goes:

Friday afternoon, I picked up 1 bucket and 1 lug each of Carmenere and Malbec juice/grapes from Harford Vineyard near Bel Air MD. They were nice and cold, but started their warm up on the roughly two hour drive home. 

Still too cold to pitch, I set the buckets outside in a sunny spot while I cut the lawn (grapes stayed in the kitchen at room temp). After the lawn was done and I had cleaned up and had a snack, I took two, five gallon buckets, a few paint strainer bags and my grapes out to the deck with an ice cold Corona and got to work. A leisurely hour or so later, I had de-stemmed the two 18lb lugs and all the grapes were in 4 strainer bags. I crushed them by hand, and split each juice bucket into two batches each to make room for my "grape packs" - one in each bucket. From there, I measured the SG and pH of the buckets. Temps were in range, so I got to work preparing my yeast starters. 

I chose to go with D254 on the Malbec and RC212 for the Carmenere. Originally, I thought I’d experiment with blending yeasts since I’d have each batch in two buckets. I ultimately decided to keep things a little more on the simple side, since this was my first attempt with fresh juice/grapes. I got the starters going with some warm water, then went back to the buckets to give them a dose of nutrient and some FT Tannin Rouge. After about 15 minutes, the starters were humming along, so I pitched the yeast and went to bed. I was a little nervous, as we were going out of town the next morning and wouldn’t return until Sunday night. By the next morning, there were visual signs of fermentation, so I left a little more comfortable; but still anxious about leaving my new babies alone for the weekend. 

Sunday evening, we returned home to the smells of fermentation throughout the house. Immediately after unloading the car, I ran down to the basement; hydrometer and spoon at the ready. All four buckets were fizzing and foaming happily. I gave each a good stir/punchdown and measured SG. Both were approaching 1.060, and I was a happy camper. They had survived the weekend and were moving right along.

More to come as my Chilean adventure continues...

Jim


----------



## Rocky (May 20, 2013)

Sounds great Jim. You are going to love these wines. I made the Carmenere and I have had some of Shoebiedoo's Malbec from last year and both wines are superb. I also made a Cabernet Sauvignon from Chilean juice and it may be one of he 5 best wines I have ever made. Yes, I know that they did not "age" very long. The fact is that nothing ages very long in my cellar. (Long ago, when I actually worked, my team bought me a plaque for my office. It showed two buzzards on a tree limb and one was saying to the other, "Patience my ***! I'm going to kill something!")


----------



## JohnT (May 20, 2013)

Jim, 

Welcome to the world of juice 'n fruit! 

Good move on adding some fresh grapes to the mix. I have found that the bucket juice tends to be rather light for my tastes, so adding whole grapes will add more body and darken it up a bit. 


Did you test the acid on your must? Although the buckets should come already adjusted, adding whole grapes might throw the levels. 

How did you plan on pressing the grapes when you are done?

johnT.


----------



## Boatboy24 (May 21, 2013)

Thanks guys. 

I should add that the Malbec started at SG 1.094 and pH of 3.44, while the Carm was at 1.092 and 3.29. Unfortunately, my syringe and little shot glas/measuring cup on my TA kit are cracked. I'll measure as soon as the replacements come in. What do you recommend the TA should be?

Things are humming along just about perfectly so far. As of last night, must temps were all 71-72 degrees and all four buckets were approaching 1.060 SG. I'm stirring 2-3 times a day and giving the grape packs a good press on the side of the bucket.

John: My "press" is my hands. So my plan is to do the same with these as I've done with the kits that have grape packs. Just sanitize my hands, take the bags out, and squeeze away. Sounds like we are similar in wine taste - I tend toward big, bold reds. My thinking was fermenting on some skins would be beneficial


----------



## Boatboy24 (May 28, 2013)

Update: On Saturday, the Carm was at .997 and the Malbec at .996, so I racked both to carboys for the next phase. Since I added an 18lb lug of grapes to each batch, I obviously had more than 6 gallons each. I ended up with just over 7 gallons of Carmenere and a little more than 7.5 of Malbec after sqeezing all I could out of the paint strainer bags by hand. Due to my lack of bottling recently, I was limited on my choice of vessels for this next phase. I ended up filling a 5 gallon carboy with the Carm, with the remainder in a 3 gallon, leaving me with roughly a gallon of headspace. After racking the Malbec into a 6 gallon carboy, I had plenty left. So I "blended", topping off the three gallon carboy with roughly 1 gallon of Malbec and still having about 1.8L leftover. That mostly went into a bottle, with the remainder going into a Mason jar in the fridge. So now I have three "batches" going - one 5gal Carmenere, one 3gal blend, and one 6gal Malbec. I'm planning to run all of this through a barrel, so will likely add the blend and the Carm together at some point, depending on taste tests. That would give me a roughly 88% Carm/12% Malbec blend. 

After all the racking and clean up was done, I got to work preparing my MLB starters. This is my first malo-lactic ferment and I'm using Bacchus. I prepared starters using Acti-ML, and added Opti-Malo to the must (creating my first wine volcano, by the way  ). As of last night, everything seems to be humming along and based on the tiny bubbles I'm seeing in the carboys, I think MLF is underay.

Edit: I also added approx 10g/gal of oak chips, roughly half light American and half medium French.


----------



## Pumpkinman (May 28, 2013)

Jim,
Sounds great! My Malbec and Cab Sav are almost ready to be racked and put through MLF using VP41.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Jul 18, 2013)

I just realized I haven't updated this "journal". MLF finished in about five weeks, and at tht time, I racked with the AI1, added sulphites, and degassed a bit more with the brake bleeder. That was on 6/26 and things seem to have cleared pretty well since then. In about another week, I'll put the Carm/Malbec blend into my ~7 month old Vadai for about 12 weeks, followed by the Malbec. We will see how things are after that - some time in the late fall.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Sep 18, 2013)

A little later than planned, I got the Carm/Malbec blend into the Vadai barrel on the 14th. There it will sit for probably 16 weeks. Before it went into the barrel, I tasted the Carmenere alone and it was good, though a little thin for my taste. Flavor seems to be coming along, but the wine still tastes young. It should - it's only 4 months old. The Malbec had decent body, but is "gamey". I'm hoping that's just the youth coming through. In the research I've done on wine faults, I couldn't identify any that I thought the Malbec was showing, so I'm optimistic it'll outgrow that gamey nose/taste.


----------



## Pumpkinman (Sep 18, 2013)

Jim, nice update!
My Chilean Cab Sav and Malbec have completed MLF as well, and are in line to go into the barrels as soon as the Chianti and Montepulciano D'Abruzzo are done in the barrels, approx 4 months.
This will be perfect timing for this seasons fall wines to be rotated in.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Feb 8, 2014)

OK, after 21 weeks, I racked the Carmenere out of the barrel this morning. As luck would have it, I had about 6oz more than my Better Bottle would hold. I snuck a sip and was very pleased. The remainder is in a glass covered with a coaster and sitting on the counter. I'll enjoy it with my lunch in a couple hours. I've got the barrel soaking in some KMeta solution and will move the Malbec in there tomorrow.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Feb 10, 2014)

Update: The Carmenere is really coming along nicely. Progress has been slow(er than I want), but that's probably due to the 18lbs of fresh grapes I added to the bucket. I really think this is going to end up making a very good wine. It has a nice body/mouthfeel, and pretty killer legs. The fruit is coming forward now and everything seems to be integrating well. There is certainly a kiss of oak, but it's not overly strong and I expect it will blend in pretty well. I'll plan to bottle this in 45-60 days. Overall, I think the addition of grapes to the juice bucket is very worthwhile.


----------



## dangerdave (Feb 12, 2014)

Carmenere is a good wine for blending. Have you considered this?


----------



## Boatboy24 (Apr 22, 2014)

Another update: 

I tasted the Carmenere yesterday and am ready to bottle. Hopefully, I'll get to that this weekend. It has a nice spicy bite to it, and any astringency and/or gaminess has faded nicely. Dark fruit is coming out in the nose now, as is a hint of pepper. Body is very nice, with really good legs. It is only 11 months old at this point, so after bottling, I won't be touching it much for probably another 6 months. But I need to make room for this year's vintage. Oh, and I did give it 4 grams of TanCor Grand Cru when it came out of the barrel. 

The Malbec has been in the barrel for a little over 10 weeks now. It shows a little more fruit, less spice, and is a bit smoother overall. Not surprising to me at least. I think it will be every bit as good as the Carmenere. I'll leave it in the barrel another couple weeks, then will rack out so I can make the finishing touches and bottle. I'm considering giving it some Tannin Riche Extra before bottling.

For those just joining this thread, this was my first attempt at fresh juice/fruit. I was concerned about the wines being a little thin, so I added 18lbs of fresh grapes to each bucket in an effort to kick up the body and tannins. I think this is an excellent approach to take if you want to take your game to the next level from kits. It requires no special equipment, due to the small quantity of grapes. But the payoff is quite good, IMHO. After purchasing juice, grapes, malolactic bacteria, etc., my investment in each batch was about $100. Adding the lug of grapes to each batch increases your final volume to 6.5-7 gallons, after the angels take their share from the barrel. If you're using 33 bottles as a final number, cost is only about 3 bucks a bottle. I think I've produced something that will compete with a lot of $15 bottles.


----------



## geek (Apr 22, 2014)

nice followup Jim.
In my case I am considering adding 9lbs of fresh grapes to each bucket I will be making when the chilean stuff arrives...BUT also may add the whole lug of 18lbs.

Actually, I have 2 buckets coming in, 1 cab sav and 1 merlot, plus 3 lugs of fresh grapes.

I was thinking to get everything fermented in a big 20gal bucket; and even dumping the crush grapes instead of using the mesh bags....what you think?


----------



## Boatboy24 (Apr 22, 2014)

geek said:


> I was thinking to get everything fermented in a big 20gal bucket; and even dumping the crush grapes instead of using the mesh bags....what you think?



Unless I had a press, I'd use the bags. You may need 4-6 of them, but it will make it much, much easier to extract the must from them when you do your first racking. In that regard, it is like doing a kit with a grape pack. Just remove the bag, and squeeze with sanitized hands to get all the goodness out.


----------



## geek (Apr 22, 2014)

I see, I was just thinking that the more contact with the skins the better and the skins being in the bag not much in contact...


----------



## zalai (Apr 22, 2014)

Hi Jim ,
Could you compare your Carmenere to a kit with grape pack ?
Is it as good as the Cellar Classic Winery Series or the En Primeur line ?

thank you


----------



## hawk022499 (Apr 22, 2014)

Nice account of your first experience with juice/grapes. This season is my 1st attempt at doing the same. Have 5 batches going at once so a bit nervous to mess something up. But this gives me kind of a timeline to compare how mine develops. Thanks for posting your progress.


----------



## Boatboy24 (Apr 22, 2014)

zalai said:


> Hi Jim ,
> Could you compare your Carmenere to a kit with grape pack ?
> Is it as good as the Cellar Classic Winery Series or the En Primeur line ?
> 
> thank you



It is taking a little longer to come around than the kits, but this will probably be every bit as good as a high end kit. I'm pleasantly surprised at the legs, body and mouthfeel with only 18lbs of grapes.


----------



## geek (Apr 23, 2014)

Boatboy24 said:


> It is taking a little longer to come around than the kits, but this will probably be every bit as good as a high end kit. I'm pleasantly surprised at the legs, body and mouthfeel with only 18lbs of grapes.



Jim, does that apply to the Malbec also?


----------



## Boatboy24 (Apr 23, 2014)

geek said:


> Jim, does that apply to the Malbec also?



The Malbec is still in the barrel. It is more fruit forward, and seems to be coming along a little faster (the acid numbers were slightly better too, so that may be helping). But yes; body, mouthfeel, etc seem to be quite good in that as well. Obviously, the Carm gained some from the oxidation and evaporation during barrel time that the Malbec has yet to gain. But I expect it will be largely the same in the end.


----------



## soslarry (Apr 27, 2014)

*Was thinking of doing something similar and need some( a lot) direction*

Hi Jim,et al,
I need some advice.
Thanks for the documentation of your process.
This will be my second attempt at making wine from juice and I was also thinking of adding some "type " of fruit/grape and remembered one kit that I made that had grape skins(raisins) and was thinking of using them in the juice.
My first attempt at juice produced a Barolo and amarone(stuck fermentation) and a Riesling and Cabernet Sauvignon. Eventually, they all were acceptable but I was never sure about the whole process without the kit directions.Upon reading your log, it seems as though I was pretty much on track, but never sure that I fully understood the process. ......and terms such as malo.......?......

I picked up my Chilean juice today and have it in the basement warming up. 1bucket each of Malbec, Shiraz,Cabernet franc, and sauvingnon blanc. I plan to kill the wild yeast tomorrow in all buckets and add the yeast in the following 24 hrs. Does the type of grape matter in each of the juices? Can I use raisins?Besides SG,what other readings are necessary? Why?

Larry


----------



## Boatboy24 (Apr 28, 2014)

To a certain extent, the grape type doesn't matter, IMHO. But I wouldn't go adding Cabernet grapes to a Pinot Noir either. Merlot seems to be a good generic choice for most reds though. Raisins can be used but their use is a topic of some debate. I've used them on some cheap kits, and a Valpolicella juice bucket with some decent benefits. Given the option though, I'd go with grapes if possible.

You most definitely need to measure and track your SG. TA and pH as well, though most juice buckets do come balanced. Knowing them at the start will allow you to adjust if necessary though.


----------



## soslarry (Apr 29, 2014)

#12
soslarry
Junior Member

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 10
Likes Given: 2


I let the juices warm up since sunday. I checked the temp and Sg on all 4 and they ranged from 1.096 to1.098. The must temp. Was around 62F to 64F with the room temp around 70 in basement. I made an temporary insulated enclosure from max insulation board to heat the area with the juices. Otherwise the temp. In the basement is only around 66F. After considerable reading, I decided to add pot. Meta ,to kill the wild yeast, to the juices( @.5 tsp. per 6 gal.) and left it uncovered. I checked on it this morning and 1 of the juices decided to ferment in spite of the meta.???

I plan to add yeast today around 2pm(24 hr. Period for k meta to dissipate),........BUT I am concerned about the yeast that I was sold by the juice retailer. He sold me all in ec-1118 for all 4. I am concerned about both alcohol tolerance of the yeast and it's temp. Range. My research leads me to believe that the yeast will not hold up to the alcohol. I found a formula online for alc. approximation and it comes out to about 14% when I plugged in my Sg along with the expected final Sg of .996.
In my last attempt with juices, I had a stalled fermentation in a Barolo and amarone. I suspect that the problem was the temp. as I monitored the starting temp. Of the must but only the room temp. Afterwards and I think the must got too hot for the yeast. This is all conjecture as I didn't realize until now that both temp. And alcohol tolerance play a role in the health of the yeast.I finally got the fermentation to restart but while the wine is drinkable , I am not sure if it is what it was supposed to be. In fact, they both taste very similar.
Therefore, I am trying to head off this situation,now,before it arises again. Anyone have any thoughts on the type of yeast for the Malbec,Syrah,Cabernet franc, and a Sauvignon blanc?


----------



## sdelli (Apr 30, 2014)

Here is a link for yeast pairing.... I also use heat jackets to get the temp up to a point ready for the yeast. I would not worry about ec-1118... It is the bull of yeast. It is not the best choice for flavor but will ferment very easily... That is why he sold it to you. Read up on yeast hydration too. It helps a lot! But ec-1118 does not need it...


http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wineyeastrehydration09.pdf




Sam


----------



## soslarry (May 1, 2014)

Thanks for the input. It's nice to know that there is support out there.
My RED juices are fermenting and the SG is dropping.
I got a little confused as I was starting 4 juices at once,hydrating and pitching yeast per juice bucket. I decided to use red star Pasteur champagne for the white.
But the following day ,I noticed everything was fermenting but the white that I moved to a cooler area. Upon investigation, I noticed only 3 open yeast packets instead of 4..........it gets better,.......so I thought that I forgot to do the white and must have pitched the yeast into the Malbec.......it gets better............so I pitched another of the red star into the sav. Blanc but upon more thought , I distinctly remembered my process and know now that I did not omit the yeast in the white and therefore double "yeasted" the white and now think that I had omitted the cab franc and it is presently doing fine with the wild yeast.
The crazy thing is that I decided to keep good records this time.
I checked the wines this afternoon and the Sg is still dropping
I had previously moved the white to a cooler area and saw a little evidence of fermenting but the Sg was still the same and maybe a little higher(probably an incorrect reading) but the must temp. Was only 60f, so I moved it to a different area and am putting a brew belt on it for a short while.

I am hoping that everything works out


----------



## Boatboy24 (May 8, 2014)

Well, the Carmenere is in bottles as of last night. I had a little more than half a bottle left when I was done and rather than put it in a split (I had already bottled 4), I decided that was the reward for my hard work and patience. 

Only a year old, this wine is every bit as good as a commercial wine. I need to let it sit for a while longer, but am very pleased with it. I'm really pleasantly surprised by the body, legs and mouthfeel of this wine and I think the combination of adding grapes, along with barrel time has made a big difference in this bucket wine. 

I'll update in another month or so when I get closer to bottling the Malbec.


----------

