# Getting Juice Buckets AND Grapes?



## Boatboy24 (Feb 28, 2013)

Hi folks,

I'm just about certain I'm going to get a couple juice buckets from Harford Winery in Maryland. I noticed that they also sell grapes and will destem/crush them (for a fee). Would there be any benefit to buying a bucket of Malbec and a lug of Malbec grapes, then ferment them together? Would I need a press if I wanted to do this? Obviously, I'd need a larger fermenter, but are there any other considerations I need to make? 

How much wine could you expect (on average, of course) to get from a 28 pound lug of grapes?

Thanks!


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## Rocky (Feb 28, 2013)

BB24, sounds like a good plan. The advantage I see in adding a lug of fresh grapes would be more flavor and mouth in the finished wine. I would expect about 2 gallons (net) from the addition of the lug. As far as needing a press, I don't think you will for that quantity. I would kludge up a "press" using the two buckets. Drill a series of holes in the bottom and lower sides of one of them, put the grapes in that in a fermenting bucket and use the other bucket as a piston to press the grapes. It would not be as good as a press, but "any port in a storm."


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## Rocky (Feb 28, 2013)

BB24, by the way, here is your namesake, the USS Idaho BB-24 (sunk by the Germans in WWII when it was a part of the Greek Navy).


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## harleydmn (Feb 28, 2013)

Boatboy24 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm just about certain I'm going to get a couple juice buckets from Harford Winery in Maryland. I noticed that they also sell grapes and will destem/crush them (for a fee). Would there be any benefit to buying a bucket of Malbec and a lug of Malbec grapes, then ferment them together? Would I need a press if I wanted to do this? Obviously, I'd need a larger fermenter, but are there any other considerations I need to make?
> 
> ...



I did that last fall. Got a juice bucket and a lug. So far seems to be coming along nice. The Chilean grapes are only 18lbs lugs. The people at Harford are great to deal with. I bought a 12gal fermenting bucket from them. Nice bucket. Good luck. Maybe we will run into each other there


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## Rocky (Feb 28, 2013)

_"The Chilean grapes are only 18lbs lugs."_

BB24, I did not know this. I would revise my estimate to about 1.3 gallons of wine (net) from the lug.


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## harleydmn (Feb 28, 2013)

Rocky said:


> "The Chilean grapes are only 18lbs lugs."
> 
> BB24, I did not know this. I would revise my estimate to about 1.3 gallons of wine (net) from the lug.



I was only going to use 1 lug. Should I get atleast 2 with my bucket? The Fall grapes were 36lb lugs.


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## novalou (Feb 28, 2013)

Boatboy24 said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I'm just about certain I'm going to get a couple juice buckets from Harford Winery in Maryland. I noticed that they also sell grapes and will destem/crush them (for a fee). Would there be any benefit to buying a bucket of Malbec and a lug of Malbec grapes, then ferment them together? Would I need a press if I wanted to do this? Obviously, I'd need a larger fermenter, but are there any other considerations I need to make?
> 
> ...



Figure about 14 lbs of grapes per gallon of juice.

If you are only doing a lug or two, you can get a large nylon straining bag and put your skins in there to get the remaining juice. Any volume larger than that, rent a press.


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## Boatboy24 (Feb 28, 2013)

harleydm: you're right. 18lbs. $28 per lug. Seems a bit pricey - am I off base?

Rocky: thanks for the input and the picture of my namesake. Too bad it's sitting at the bottom of the ocean! 

Lou: I like the idea of being able to use the straining bag. Thanks.


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## Rocky (Feb 28, 2013)

Boatboy24 said:


> harleydm: you're right. 18lbs. $28 per lug. Seems a bit pricey - am I off base?
> 
> Rocky: thanks for the input and the picture of my namesake. Too bad it's sitting at the bottom of the ocean!
> 
> Lou: I like the idea of being able to use the straining bag. Thanks.


 
Inflation is really tough on wine makers! I don't want to be accused of being the old "when I was a kid" fart, BUT,...when I was a kid and making wine with my Grandfather, Father and Uncles, a 42 pound lug of Zinfandel or Muscat was 75 cents and we got 3 gallons consistently from a lug. My Grandfather was almost homicidal when the price went to $1 per lug. I can only imagine what he would say now.


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## kwb1963 (Feb 28, 2013)

Hi Boatboy. I got roughly 8-gal from 6 18lbs boxes of Malbec grapes last year. They crushed/destemmed them for me, but I pressed them in strainer bags after fermentation. What a chore! I bought a press after that experience. 

I will probably buy a bucket of muscat juice this year since they don't offer the fresh grapes. But I may get chardonnay and viognier grapes. I emailed Kevin and Teresa asking about the difference. They, of course, advised me to get the grapes vice the juice. But I wonder if that's because they make more money off of selling the grapes. They said the grapes are more fresh than the juice, but after 2-3 weeks in transit from Chile, how can they be? On the other hand, I have no idea what additives are in the juice.


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## roblloyd (Mar 2, 2013)

When I get a juice bucket I always get a pack/lug of matching grapes to add to it. I use a mesh bag. The bag makes it easier to push under to keep wet, stir, squeeze when you're done and no straining needed. I have not done a batch with and without so I'm only assuming it adds more to the profile.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 2, 2013)

Ok, methinks I'm going to run with this. Two batches: Carmenere and Malbec. I'm going to get a juice bucket and one lug of each. My assumption at this point is that this will not work with a 7.9 gallon fermenter. Will 10 be enough?

This may end up being my first attempt at blending too. 

Thanks for the input! 

Jim


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## Rocky (Mar 2, 2013)

Jim, shouldn't that be Ithinks? (That was an old line from _Cheers, _Woody to Diane).

I think a 10 would be pushing it if you are adding 36 lbs of grapes. They probably would fit but with an active fermentation, you could have a problem with overflow.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Jim, shouldn't that be Ithinks? (That was an old line from _Cheers, _Woody to Diane).
> 
> I think a 10 would be pushing it if you are adding 36 lbs of grapes. They probably would fit but with an active fermentation, you could have a problem with overflow.



Love the old "Woody" quotes. 

I'm thinking it'd be 18lbs (one lug) and 6gallons of juice per batch.


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## roblloyd (Mar 2, 2013)

I think you'd be ok - or split it up with 3 buckets. If you have a 10gal then go for it. I don't, so I usually split them up. Makes stirring easy, and lots of room. And if so inclined you could make that 2 different batches - one with grapes one without. Both with grapes, only one with oak etc. Same batch of wine can make 2 different varieties easily.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 2, 2013)

I have 1 five gallon bucket, and one 7.9 gallon fermenter. I've got to buy something if I want to do this. I'm thinking one batch split between the 5 and 7.9, and another in a ten gallon that I'll acquire in the near future.


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## Rocky (Mar 2, 2013)

Boatboy24 said:


> I have 1 five gallon bucket, and one 7.9 gallon fermenter. I've got to buy something if I want to do this. I'm thinking one batch split between the 5 and 7.9, and another in a ten gallon that I'll acquire in the near future.


 
Don't forget that you will also have the buckets that the juice comes in and they are normally 6 gallons.


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 2, 2013)

Rocky said:


> Don't forget that you will also have the buckets that the juice comes in and they are normally 6 gallons.



DOH!!!


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## ZeitGeist (Mar 8, 2013)

Thanks for posting this question. I've been wondering the same thing since I saw the prices last fall. I'll be ordering a bucket of cab juice and a lug of grapes with it.


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## shoebiedoo (Mar 28, 2013)

roblloyd said:


> I think you'd be ok - or split it up with 3 buckets. If you have a 10gal then go for it. I don't, so I usually split them up. Makes stirring easy, and lots of room. And if so inclined you could make that 2 different batches - one with grapes one without. Both with grapes, only one with oak etc. Same batch of wine can make 2 different varieties easily.



Do you guys think 1, 18lb lug would be enough to give 3 buckets the extra mouth feel we used to get from the grape packs. 
I have no idea how to make up for the lost grape packs. The malbec I made last year (with 1 fior d'uva grape pack per bucket) turned out great and I don't think it will have enough body with out them. I'm seriously thinking of just making reds from grapes but the malbec grapes are SPENDY!!!!!!


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## Boatboy24 (Mar 28, 2013)

shoebiedoo said:


> Do you guys think 1, 18lb lug would be enough to give 3 buckets the extra mouth feel we used to get from the grape packs.



As a compare, look at the descriptions of the Kenridge limited release kits for this year. The reds have a 2.6 liter grape pack and in the description, it states that this comes from over 14lbs of grapes. Based on that, I think an 18lb lug will give you some significant "ooomph!". I have no idea what, if anything, else goes into those packs though. But one lug for three buckets? It wouldn't hurt; I'm pretty certain of that. I don't know how much of a difference it would make though.

_"Made with a 2.6 L Super Pack which includes over 14 lbs. of crushed grapes."_


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## shoebiedoo (Mar 28, 2013)

Boatboy24 said:


> The reds have a 2.6 liter grape pack and in the description, it states that this comes from over 14lbs of grapes. Based on that, I think an 18lb lug will give you some significant "ooomph!".
> 
> _"Made with a 2.6 L Super Pack which includes over 14 lbs. of crushed grapes."_



That's a good comparison. the produce company around here gets $32.50 per 18lb lug so making it from ALL grapes is way too cost prohibitive . but I guess an extra $32.5 per bucket isn't too bad.

Thanks


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## roblloyd (Mar 29, 2013)

Stop & shop gets $2lb for table grapes so if that doesn't seem bad. That's only $1 extra per bottle to improve the wine. It's about quality right? 
If you want cheap wine the you get those 4 week kits.


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## ibglowin (Mar 29, 2013)

Table grapes would not add anything really to a juice bucket besides some additional sugar. There is little to no tannin in a table grape skin. 



roblloyd said:


> Stop & shop gets $2lb for table grapes so if that doesn't seem bad. That's only $1 extra per bottle to improve the wine. It's about quality right?
> If you want cheap wine the you get those 4 week kits.


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## roblloyd (Mar 29, 2013)

I never meant to use table grapes. I was just mentioning crappy store grapes are the same price as real grapes with real flavors.


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## Inferno (Mar 31, 2013)

I sometimes use juice pails to lower the acid and add a little fruit to local hybrid grapes , Frontenac or Foch , 200lbs of each , to which I add 2 pails of Zinfandel to the Frontenac and cab Sauvignon to the Foch .


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