# Can i steal my neighbors overgrowth?



## Ajmassa (May 22, 2021)

My next door neighbor has a grape vine for red wine grapes growing wild and it has recently grown into my yard. When I noticed a couple months back I sorta convinced it to continue growing up my fence. Surprised to see just how quick this sucker grows.

This might be a stupid question- But is there any way i’m able to cut and replant this section and end up with my own vine based off what’s already growing on my side? Or do i need one of the main rooted sections? I am pretty sure it’s a long ways to the mother root from what’s in my yard.

*Should mention that I have no desire to make any wine from the vine. But i do think it would be nice to grow and train it and if that goes well then perhaps eventually planting a few of my own and building a nice looking little trellis or something. idk. Always thought it would be cool decor to have some grapes growing considering I’m such a winemaking nerd.


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## Rembee (May 22, 2021)

You can try to air layer it using a simple plastic water bottle with the bottom cut off and the bottle cut long ways from the cap to the bottom. Then open it up and slide the bottle around the main vine with the bottom facing up. Fill the bottle with a mixture of half potting soil and sand mixed together. Then tape up the open seam. You can pack both ends with sphagnum peat moss to help contain the sand/soil mixture. Then keep it watered (damp). Do not over water it. Once you can see roots along the sides of the bottle you can then cut it free from the main vine, remove the bottle and plant your new vine. This normally takes from 8 to 10 weeks for me. I normally preform an air layer in July through August and plant the new vine in October. I air layer side vines that grow off of the main trunk.


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## Jim Welch (May 22, 2021)

I wouldn’t call it stealing, depending on your state’s law you may have the right to cut any growth that grows over the property line onto your property. In my state that is the law I know. Not sure if you can grow a grape vine from a cutting though. You could try with some rooting hormone.


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## Jim Welch (May 22, 2021)

Coincidentally there is another post here talking about cuttings.







starting cuttings


I am new to starting cuttings. I have two bud and three bud cuttings of Marechal Foch- how deep do I put them into soil mix? And does rooting hormone actually help, or is it the heat mat that does it? I have Brianna and Lorelai that endedup puting out root starts on their own, I was given them...




www.winemakingtalk.com


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## Rice_Guy (May 23, 2021)

If it has roots it will live. Picture number two looks like it is on the soil surface,, not in ground. The approach with highest success is to bury several nodes (18 inches/ a foot) in the soil and water daily to encourage rooting, leave the vine attached to the mother plant so it continues to get nutrition for the rest of the growing season. clipping actually is optional, the risk is as long as connected to the mother plant the neighbor could pull it out/ weed it/ poison it, from his side of the fence. 
I like @Rembee air layering because it gives you some control over relocating the plant. Air layering is a harder technique and works better when spring time growth is happening. Good luck gardening.


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## Ajmassa (May 23, 2021)

Jim Welch said:


> I wouldn’t call it stealing, depending on your state’s law you may have the right to cut any growth that grows over the property line onto your property. In my state that is the law I know. Not sure if you can grow a grape vine from a cutting though. You could try with some rooting hormone.


lol. yeah didn’t mean that literally or legally. Just questioning if it was realistically able to be done. and thank you fir the thread link. it’s exactly what i needed. 



Rembee said:


> You can try to air layer it using a simple plastic water bottle with the bottom cut off and the bottle cut long ways from the cap to the bottom. Then open it up and slide the bottle around the main vine with the bottom facing up. Fill the bottle with a mixture of half potting soil and sand mixed together. Then tape up the open seam. You can pack both ends with sphagnum peat moss to help contain the sand/soil mixture. Then keep it watered (damp). Do not over water it. Once you can see roots along the sides of the bottle you can then cut it free from the main vine, remove the bottle and plant your new vine. This normally takes from 8 to 10 weeks for me. I normally preform an air layer in July through August and plant the new vine in October. I air layer side vines that grow off of the main trunk.


this is perfect and exactly the type of thing i was curious about. you make it sound so easy tho! when the time comes i’ll have to really dig in and figure out the best approach. thank you



Rice_Guy said:


> If it has roots it will live. Picture number two looks like it is on the soil surface,, not in ground. The approach with highest success is to bury several nodes (18 inches/ a foot) in the soil and water daily to encourage rooting, leave the vine attached to the mother plant so it continues to get nutrition for the rest of the growing season. clipping actually is optional, the risk is as long as connected to the mother plant the neighbor could pull it out/ weed it/ poison it, from his side of the fence.
> I like @Rembee air layering because it gives you some control over relocating the plant. Air layering is a harder technique and works better when spring time growth is happening. Good luck gardening.



correct. nothing on my property is rooted. their vine is likely just one or 2 growing wild for a few years. and yes there is concern my neighbor will clean up that corner and kill my redirected vine. so i guess if that does happen i’ll be running to the shop and grabbing all necessary supplies for an emergency cutting replanting earlier than expected. otherwise i have a few options it seems. will be reading further into this over the next few weeks to get a game plan together. 
worst case scenario? i just get some new vines and plant myself. but this existing vine just seems like a fun challenge to take on right now regardless ya know? 
thanks for the input everyone.


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## Rice_Guy (May 23, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> . worst case scenario? i just get some new vines and


curious, ,,,, you ever press any grapes ? worst case scenario is that you use some press cake for compost in the flower bed/ garden and each of the berries has three seeds in it and they each germinate and grow two years, and then folks can’t see your house and fence and yard and you even get lost driving by the grape vine place where you thought you lived in that area, , but you can’t find any house any more, and you wind up in a homeless shelter, but they see you still have some seeds on the cuff of your pants, so they kick you out for having seeds, so you really wind up on the street under a bridge, and some seeds fall out of your pants cuffs and they grow, so two years later the bridge is covered in grapes and a semi carrying fertilizer goes over the bridge, and loses its load, and the fertilizer spills on the grape vines and then the whole town just disappears.

_yes sir the worst case isn’t pretty _


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## Ajmassa (May 23, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> curious, ,,,, you ever press any grapes ? worst case scenario is that you use some press cake for compost in the flower bed/ garden and each of the berries has three seeds in it and they each germinate and grow two years, and then folks can’t see your house and fence and yard and you even get lost driving by the grape vine place where you thought you lived in that area, , but you can’t find any house any more, and you wind up in a homeless shelter, but they see you still have some seeds on the cuff of your pants, so they kick you out for having seeds, so you really wind up on the street under a bridge, and some seeds fall out of your pants cuffs and they grow, so two years later the bridge is covered in grapes and a semi carrying fertilizer goes over the bridge, and loses its load, and the fertilizer spills on the grape vines and then the whole town just disappears.
> 
> _yes sir the worst case isn’t pretty _


well then hope this neighborly vine isn’t just a gateway vine. will try to avoid some press cake this fall might which could put me smack dab into the downward spiral of the throes of vine growing. maybe the fam will give an intervention before i’m a lost cause. thanks for the heads up bud


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## Snafflebit (May 24, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> curious, ,,,, you ever press any grapes ? worst case scenario is that you use some press cake for compost in the flower bed/ garden and each of the berries has three seeds in it and they each germinate and grow two years, and then folks can’t see your house and fence and yard and you even get lost driving by the grape vine place where you thought you lived in that area, , but you can’t find any house any more, and you wind up in a homeless shelter, but they see you still have some seeds on the cuff of your pants, so they kick you out for having seeds, so you really wind up on the street under a bridge, and some seeds fall out of your pants cuffs and they grow, so two years later the bridge is covered in grapes and a semi carrying fertilizer goes over the bridge, and loses its load, and the fertilizer spills on the grape vines and then the whole town just disappears.
> 
> _yes sir the worst case isn’t pretty _



I saw that movie!


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## franc1969 (May 26, 2021)

If you know the variety, or at least whether it's a hybrid, American or grafted vinifera, could be very easy. Grafted vinifera- don't bother with rooting it, who wants to deal with phylloxera. Hybrid or American, just layer what comes over. Serpentine layering is easy, as long as that vine is. Run a row of pots filled with soil, pin down some nodes into them and go. You might try wounding and hormone to make sure, depends on variety. 
If you only want leafy cover for a trellis, get rootstock from DoubleAA. I'd love the extra fruit- it's worth a try for something decorative and a gallon or two a year.


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## NorCal (May 26, 2021)

One year I took the cuttings from a winter pruning of Cab Franc, put a node or two below the surface in a wine barrel with potting soil and two or three nodes above the surface. Pretty much forgot about them. I’d say 85% survived and were then replanted elsewhere. As others said, it’s not on rootstock, so you have disease susceptibility, but it’s a weed and is pretty hardy.


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## David Violante (May 29, 2021)

Interestingly, this came up in one of my feeds... *Plant Root Growing Box* used for air layering.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 12, 2021)

@Rice_Guy tried to warn me


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## franc1969 (Jun 12, 2021)

That looks dead easy to root down, right where it is. It already has a trunk, and fruit!


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## Ajmassa (Jun 12, 2021)

franc1969 said:


> That looks dead easy to root down, right where it is. It already has a trunk, and fruit!


You actually think so? 
That video in post #12 that @David Violante posted looked kinda cool. Was thinking about doing something like that — basically the same as the water bottle method that others mentioned. Was just a little unsure about the ideal location to draw roots. Or if the method of stripping the outside layer & wrapping would even work on a grape vine.


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## franc1969 (Jun 13, 2021)

I have had much better yield layering plants vs. cuttings. Grapes I unintentionally layered and got new plants, they don't need much encouragement to root. That rootmaker ball that david linked is great, but you can do about the same with prepped plastic food tubs. As long as your neighbor isn't going to spray or cut the vine before you have roots. I have not done this while vine was fruiting, so I don't know what slowdown you'll get. I'd cut off most fruit if your focus is rooting new plants.
If you like where the vine is, dead easy, and you can keep a large portion of the vine intact and already have a trunk to figure out a pruning system. Dig below vine where the bottom of its trunk would be, and bury that part. I'd bury deeper, if you want to keep a trunk. If you want multiple plants to move elsewhere - try serpentine layering. Google pictures, but it's basically zigzagging in and out of soil/pots. Use a landscape staple to pin the vine down. Wound the vine a bit where buried. You can use rooting hormone, but grapes don't really need that. Cutting all the way around is more for trees, not vines. 
In fall or winter, cut the vines apart and you have new plants already in pots. I'd dig a bit around the trunk if you keep that- make sure you have enough roots established before you cut off the mother vine.


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## David Violante (Jun 13, 2021)

I like the idea of @franc1969 in establishing a root below where it is if that’s where you will want a main vine. I also like the idea of using what you may already have. Those root balls looked pretty cool and showed a good proof of concept for layering ideas, but I like the several pot or buried in soil idea too. Those vines look great! ...and so it begins!


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## Khristyjeff (Jun 15, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> curious, ,,,, you ever press any grapes ? worst case scenario is that you use some press cake for compost in the flower bed/ garden and each of the berries has three seeds in it and they each germinate and grow two years, and then folks can’t see your house and fence and yard and you even get lost driving by the grape vine place where you thought you lived in that area, , but you can’t find any house any more, and you wind up in a homeless shelter, but they see you still have some seeds on the cuff of your pants, so they kick you out for having seeds, so you really wind up on the street under a bridge, and some seeds fall out of your pants cuffs and they grow, so two years later the bridge is covered in grapes and a semi carrying fertilizer goes over the bridge, and loses its load, and the fertilizer spills on the grape vines and then the whole town just disappears.
> 
> _yes sir the worst case isn’t pretty _


I like the way you think! Weird.


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 15, 2021)

layering in natural soil on a normal year will do better for uniform available moisture, ( this area has drought so irrigation drippers would help this year.)


franc1969 said:


> I have had much better yield layering plants vs. cuttings. Grapes I unintentionally layered and got new plants, they don't need much encouragement to root. . . . As long as your neighbor isn't going to spray or cut the vine before you have roots. I have not done this while vine was fruiting, so I don't know what slowdown you'll get. I'd cut off most fruit if your focus is rooting new plants. . . - make sure you have enough roots established before you cut off the mother vine.


yes balance the root vs leaf. ,,, this said I am the church mow person and trying to kill rooted wild grape on a hill by snipping every few feet last month and repeated mowing over summer. The established roots are winning so far, putting up new leaf material every week.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 19, 2021)

Absolutely love seeing these grapes coming in and see a season’s progression 1st hand. I don’t have much of a green thumb but I always did enjoy the process and all the tlc needed — to where you become emotionally invested.
Years ago I used to grow a plant or 2 a year. The type that had to be in the backyard away from neighbors . Those plants had the same timeline as a grapevine, harvesting in early fall.
For me it was never about the harvest, but more the process of guiding it along. Kinda like winemaking—the journey can be more enjoyable than the destination.

Anyway, question. There are super long sections growing that do not have any fruit. Mostly all fruit is towards the center. (The fruit to the left is coming from opposite side i directed to the fence). Would cutting those fruitless sections off encourage better fruit development?



franc1969 said:


> . I have not done this while vine was fruiting, so I don't know what slowdown you'll get. I'd cut off most fruit if your focus is rooting new plants.
> If you like where the vine is, dead easy, and you can keep a large portion of the vine intact and already have a trunk to figure out a pruning system. Dig below vine where the bottom of its trunk would be, and bury that part. I'd bury deeper, if you want to keep a trunk
> Wound the vine a bit where buried. You can use rooting hormone, but grapes don't really need that. Cutting all the way around is more for trees, not vines.
> In fall or winter, cut the vines apart and you have new plants already in pots. I'd dig a bit around the trunk if you keep that- make sure you have enough roots established before you cut off the mother vine.



I don’t care about the fruit on the main vine running up the fence. I’d like to root it down right where it is like you said. 
But I am confused by your comment. how can I establish new roots in the ground before cutting from mother vine? Or even know they’re there if buried?


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## sour_grapes (Jun 19, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> For me it was never about the harvest, but more the process of guiding it along.



Sure. And you used to read those magazines for the articles, right?


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## Ajmassa (Jun 19, 2021)

sour_grapes said:


> Sure. And you used to read those magazines for the articles, right?


I’m SERIOUS!! Lol. It’s fun diving into a hobby, researching different aspects, and learning all the little nuances involved to do it properly. And equally fun to show up to a party with a giant batch of cookies to share. We would only save a small amount to have for a rainy day.

But the actual act of indulging? I’m a sissy nowadays and decline any offers 99% of the time. Only partake when all things align. The right situation in the right setting with the right people.
Oh and btw—- Playboy had some talented writers with legit articles. So yeah, I did use those magazines for the articles!


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## sour_grapes (Jun 19, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> I’m SERIOUS!! Lol. It’s fun diving into a hobby, researching different aspects, and learning all the little nuances involved to do it properly. And equally fun to show up to a party with a giant batch of cookies to share. We would only save a small amount to have for a rainy day.
> 
> But the actual act of indulging? I’m a sissy nowadays and decline any offers 99% of the time. Only partake when all things align. The right situation in the right setting with the right people.
> Oh and btw—- Playboy had some talented writers with legit articles. So yeah, I did use those magazines for the articles!



I only read quantum physics journals for the particles.


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 19, 2021)

I will interpret, you need some root system for the vine to continue to live, this can be in the ground or in a pot like device. ,,, Simply clipping the vegetative vine would kill ALL the vine above the cut! As with other plants there needs to be balance between moisture loss from leaves and the size of the root ball.


Ajmassa said:


> But I am confused by your comment. how can I establish new roots in the ground before cutting from mother vine? Or even know they’re there if buried?


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## Ajmassa (Jun 20, 2021)

Rice_Guy said:


> I will interpret, you need some root system for the vine to continue to live, this can be in the ground or in a pot like device. ,,, Simply clipping the vegetative vine would kill ALL the vine above the cut! As with other plants there needs to be balance between moisture loss from leaves and the size of the root ball.



In hindsight it was a stupid question. My understanding of layering was way off and 5 minutes of research pretty much set me straight. And actually it’s much less complicated than I realized. I plan to wound and bury to main trunk where it is currently. And also bury a couple other sections into small pots for 3 or 4 separate rooted vines.
The soil in this location isn’t exactly the best though. Thinking I will dig out much larger than needed holes and back fill with some standard topsoil. Unless something specific is recommended. And I’m just using potting soil for the pots.

Here goes nothing.


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## Rice_Guy (Jun 20, 2021)

grapes do well in poor/ dry soil. They are a deep rooted plant. The issue is to have enough moisture to get them started. You probably could have a pile of compost shoveled over the vine in target spots for roots, water every day till fall and you would have the plants.


Ajmassa said:


> In hindsight it was a stupid question. My understanding of layering was way off and 5 minutes of research pretty much set me straight. And actually it’s much less complicated than I realized. I plan to wound and bury to main trunk where it is currently. And also bury a couple other sections into small pots for 3 or 4 separate rooted vines.
> The soil in this location isn’t exactly the best though. Thinking I will dig out much larger than needed holes and back fill with some standard topsoil. Unless something specific is recommended. And I’m just using potting soil for the pots.
> 
> Here goes nothing.


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## Ajmassa (Jun 22, 2021)




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## Ajmassa (Jul 5, 2021)

Been seeing these little guys for over a month. Didn’t think anything of it. Seemed harmless. Hanging on the stems and behind leaves.

saw larger one today with red coloring. Realizing it’s the spotted lantern fly. They are back! Damn things were like a plague last summer and was quite disgusting despite vibrant colors. couldn’t walk 2 steps without seeing one. Even in the inner city and parking lots. Just everywhere in southeastern PA and south Jersey. Looks inevitable to happen again.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 5, 2021)

Upon closer inspection they’re freaking everywhere. My county is already considered a “quarantine county” so no need to report. What I thought was a fungus on my front trees was actually spotted lanternfly egg nests. Dozens. Looking closer— all my neighbors trees also have dozens them. Each nest had 100’s of eggs. They can be known to leave a honey like residue on plants which can lead to fungus but otherwise they’re more of an annoyance than anything just from the sheer amount that appear. 
last summer felt like a biblical plague.

I blame China ……again


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## Ajmassa (Jul 11, 2021)

Layering going well I think. 6 total attempts. 3 hanging pots
1 mound at main “trunk”
And added 2 others long sections I wounded & buried

Blue pot died on me. But can see growth sprouting up so I assume all others are rooting nicely. Been watering every day.

I know there’s pruning that would encourage root development—but don’t wanna screw it up. Do I remove leaves before or after the layer? Would dropping all the grapes benefit roots?
(& Check out the Spotted lanternfly invasion!)


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## David Violante (Jul 30, 2021)

@Ajmassa hows the rooting going?


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## Ajmassa (Jul 30, 2021)

David Violante said:


> @Ajmassa hows the rooting going?


Pretty good I think. Thanks for askin.
I’ll just throw a full update up and anything you think I’m doing wrong or need to know feel free to tell me. 


It’s difficult to know how well it’s going for certain since all the progress is happening under the soil. But as long as I see growth after the layer then I can assuming the roots are continuing to establish. Plus I adjusted one of the ground layers last week and I can confirm that roots _are_ growing under there. I also re-layered the pot that died a week ago. 

Been watering every day. Topped up the soil. I have 6 separate layers now. The main “trunk” buried in a mound. 2 others buried next that. And 3 hanging pots. 
Started tinkering and removed a bunch of leaves before the layer on a couple of them. Figured the growth would concentrate to the roots. I think I read that somewhere

If there’s cutting/pruning that could be done to help I’m unaware. Remember this is all off of one vine. All layers except one are on shoots after the fruit. The main “trunk” mound is technically a cordon I think. I’m just hoping once replanted it will eventually act as it’s own new vine. not it’s own new isolated fruitless shoot lol. Not getting my hopes up
the fruit coming in started Verasion. But also a lot of shriveling and dropping. No picturesque clusters anymore. But also I did zero TLC for that. Only the layering.

Ultimate goal is to get 3 or 4 of my own vines out of it. As far as when to remove from vine and replant and hoping they take? No idea. Just winging it. I guess I anticipated end of summer. But haven’t researched that far yet.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 30, 2021)

Have you sprayed anything on the vine? Looks fairly healthy, except for the bugs.


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## Ajmassa (Jul 30, 2021)

Oh and the spotted lanternfly’s are brutal. I’d say 50% have grown their wings now. And they get more brazen forcing body checks before walking away! Been killing them at will. Next year I will get to the egg nests before they hatch hopefully alleviating the takeover a bit. Grapevines seem to attract every bug known to man I swear. Aside from the Asia invasion Ive had a huge grasshopper living in there, the biggest beetles I’ve ever seen, even saw a cicada hatch from its shell (which was super interesting to see)


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## Ajmassa (Jul 30, 2021)

Dennis Griffith said:


> Have you sprayed anything on the vine? Looks fairly healthy, except for the bugs.


Nope. Just water


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 30, 2021)

Welcome to growing your own grapes. As luck has it, I've not had to deal with lanternflys yet, but we are being warned to look out for them. Thought about setting traps next year (away from vineyard) to see if any appear. But I have enough other stuff to deal with, especially since I live in fungus hollow. And I have to keep the Japanese Beetles under control too.


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## David Violante (Jul 31, 2021)

Ajmassa said:


> Pretty good I think. Thanks for askin.
> I’ll just throw a full update up and anything you think I’m doing wrong or need to know feel free to tell me.
> 
> 
> ...


Cool beans… sounds like it’s going really well that’s good news! The first few years of my replantings I cut the fruit off to help the vine focus more on the root system. You still have the main cordon though from the trunk mound. Nice!


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## David Violante (Jul 31, 2021)

Dennis Griffith said:


> Welcome to growing your own grapes. As luck has it, I've not had to deal with lanternflys yet, but we are being warned to look out for them. Thought about setting traps next year (away from vineyard) to see if any appear. But I have enough other stuff to deal with, especially since I live in fungus hollow. And I have to keep the Japanese Beetles under control too.


I’m curious about what you do for JB. I have a tiny micro vineyard by any comparison, and so I can go around and dump them into a bucket of water with some soap in it, but two years ago I scattered nematodes around too. No idea if they helped but I was doing yard work and noticed a ton of grubs. I tried to look up if they were the JB grubs and it seemed so. Doesn’t do anything for the neighbors yards of course but it made me feel like I was doing _something_. They don’t seem so prevalent this year either. I also spray with mancozeb and stylet oil.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 31, 2021)

David Violante said:


> I’m curious about what you do for JB. I have a tiny micro vineyard by any comparison, and so I can go around and dump them into a bucket of water with some soap in it, but two years ago I scattered nematodes around too. No idea if they helped but I was doing yard work and noticed a ton of grubs. I tried to look up if they were the JB grubs and it seemed so. Doesn’t do anything for the neighbors yards of course but it made me feel like I was doing _something_. They don’t seem so prevalent this year either. I also spray with mancozeb and stylet oil.


I have a 3 pronged approach. First I spray with Garden Tech Sevin (Zeta-Cypermethrin based) when first spotted. Second, I treat in and around the vineyard area with milky spore. Lastly, I set traps out and away from the vines if I start to see a lot of pressure. This year, no traps as the first 2 steps has taken a toll over the years. This year I also just carried a small bucket of soapy water just to make sure any beetles I saw got a good bath. If you are not experiencing a lot of beetles and you can do a walk thru daily, then a bucket of soap water may be all you need. We beetles first found my vines, they were coming in by the bus load.


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## Dennis Griffith (Jul 31, 2021)

David Violante said:


> I’m curious about what you do for JB. I have a tiny micro vineyard by any comparison, and so I can go around and dump them into a bucket of water with some soap in it, but two years ago I scattered nematodes around too. No idea if they helped but I was doing yard work and noticed a ton of grubs. I tried to look up if they were the JB grubs and it seemed so. Doesn’t do anything for the neighbors yards of course but it made me feel like I was doing _something_. They don’t seem so prevalent this year either. I also spray with mancozeb and stylet oil.


One other thought, mancozeb is great, but it has a 66 day pre harvest interval, so if there is fruit, shift to something else so you can harvest safely. I do spray mancozeb after harvest though as it's very effective.


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## David Violante (Jul 31, 2021)

Dennis Griffith said:


> One other thought, mancozeb is great, but it has a 66 day pre harvest interval, so if there is fruit, shift to something else so you can harvest safely. I do spray mancozeb after harvest though as it's very effective.


Thank you… that’s a great idea of spraying it after harvest. No idea why it hadn’t occurred to me. I also have bees on the property so I’m super cautious about them as well. I use a low pressure garden sprayer so I’m not fogging the area.


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