# Malolactic Fermentation taking a long time



## TimK (May 24, 2016)

I was wondering if anyone had some insight on a Malo ferm that seems to be taking a long time. I am about to enter week 8 of the process. (3 gallon carboy of Malbec wine). I started out using White Lab Malo bacteria and Opti Malo nutrients. The temperature was on the low side (62 degrees) that's why I chose White Lab since they say the bacteria can work as low as 55 degrees. I have done 2 chromatography tests. The first one was done at about the 5 week mark and it looked like it was half done. I added some nutrients to try to feed the bacteria to get it moving. A couple of days ago (week 7) I did another chromo test and it looks a little closer to completion then before but no where near what I thought it would be. Is it stuck? If so, how does one "un" stuck? I have tasted a couple times and noticed at week 6 the wine started to round out nicely. Another reason I thought it was getting close to done. There are still bubbles when I stir which is 2 times per week. They are getting fewer though. So is this all normal? Any suggestions on how to get it to finish. Thanks.


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## Boatboy24 (May 24, 2016)

If it took 5 weeks for you to get roughly halfway through, I'd expect another 5+ weeks to finish. Your low temps aren't helping. Do you have a brew belt or heating pad you can use to get temps closer to 70?


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## TimK (May 24, 2016)

I don't have either, but I can probably borrow one. (Living in northeast Ohio I probably should invest in some sort of heating device.) So even if it takes10 weeks to finish, this should not be a problem?


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## Johnd (May 24, 2016)

Assuming you're waiting to add KMS to protect your wine, the longer you're in malo, the longer it's vulnerable. As recommended, get those temps up to help it along.


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## Boatboy24 (May 24, 2016)

TimK said:


> So even if it takes10 weeks to finish, this should not be a problem?



Assuming you are under airlock and topped up, you should be OK. Nothing in life is 100%, of course, but risk is low at this point under those conditions.


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## TimK (May 24, 2016)

That was some of my concern that the longer it goes the longer the wine goes unprotected. Thanks for the help. I will get the wine up in temp and do a chromo test in about a week.


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## TimK (May 24, 2016)

Airlock is on and top off. They only time it's exposed is when I mix it up and that is only for about a couple of minutes. Thanks for the confidence. Patience is sometimes not my strong suit. Lol.


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## TimK (May 27, 2016)

Got the temperature up in the wine by just taking it out of the basement and putting it in our living room. (I think Cleveland once again missed spring. 40-50's last week, this week 85 degrees). So the hotter ambient temperature made the wine way more active. I'll probably wait another couple of days and do another chromo test. Thanks again.


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## Johny99 (May 28, 2016)

Cold Malo is ok if you make sure you are safe. As long as you have active bubbles, the co2 is protecting you. I'm thinking the temperature is an issue as others why it is taking time. Remember, traditionally Malo fermentation happened in the spring as the cellar warmed up. 

I try to keep my Malo phase at 60f, if pH is Good<3.8 and I can keep a clean airlock. I try to hit 65 to get it started, then cool it down. It can take 10-12 weeks. There is risk due to holding off on meta, but I like the results of the colder process. I leave it on the second lees as well. 

Remember, do nothing, as long as bad stuff isn't happening, is often the best course.


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## TimK (May 30, 2016)

"Remember, traditionally Malo fermentation happened in the spring as the cellar warmed up." Good point. Never really thought of that. I have the wine up to about 70+ degrees. Probably leave it there until finish. I am thinking I should be good on still holding off on meta because there is very minimal air space at the top of carboy and bubbles are still forming a little. Testing the wine tomorrow to see where it is at.


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## Busabill (May 31, 2016)

This sounds like it's fine to me. My Cabernet and zin took almost three months to complete doing taste tests and using test strips. My three gallons of Malbec took almost three and a half months to taste like it rounded and to get the test strips where I wanted them. They all came out great and as long as it is topped up and air locked you should be fine.


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## TimK (Jun 3, 2016)

Just ran a test yesterday. Progress was made but there is still plenty of Malo acid. It has been 10 and a half weeks so far and right now the wine is up to 76 degrees. Took a sample as well and it tasted pretty good. Has not completely rounded out but it seems like it is getting there. Will wait another couple weeks and will test again.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 3, 2016)

That's still A LOT of malic. To me, looks like more malic than lactic. Let your taste buds be your guide, but to my eyes, that pic looks like you haven't had any MLF going on. Hard to say with pics on a computer screen sometimes though.


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## TimK (Jun 3, 2016)

. This picture is the first test I did a month ago. Not sure how well it looks on the screen, but to me the test I did yesterday appears to have more lactic acid. I agree that the Malo acid is still very present. This is my concern. So what are my options? Should I try adding Malo bacteria again? Should I just wait it out? The wine for the first 8 and a half weeks was a lot cooler. 63degrees. About 2 weeks ago it finally warmed up here (Cleveland) so the wine has only been in 70's for that amount of time. Does that play into it? I believe I don't need to hit the panic button yet, (I hope) I just don't want to be caught off guard. Any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 3, 2016)

What is your pH?


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## ceeaton (Jun 3, 2016)

Also, did you take a starting and ending gravity reading so you can guestimate your alcohol levels? High alcohol and low pH levels can render some of the MLB strains useless. I didn't notice in the thread what strain you used.


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## TimK (Jun 3, 2016)

Last pH test, which was a while ago, was 3.5. (Probably should do another). Malo strain was white lab WLP675. Alcohol est. 14%


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## ceeaton (Jun 3, 2016)

TimK said:


> Last pH test, which was a while ago, was 3.5. (Probably should do another). Malo strain was white lab WLP675. Alcohol est. 14%



Okay, those seem within the limits for that MLB. Last question, did you add a significant amount of Kmeta, seems that one can only tolerate 10 ppm?

If you did, the remedy is to either get rid of that extra Kmeta or re-pitch a strain that can handle higher SO2 levels (like VP41). Hope that helps.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 3, 2016)

Yep, what Craig said. Not sure what the SO2 tolerance on the Wyeast is, but VP41 or CH16 will have pretty high tolerances.


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## TimK (Jun 3, 2016)

I thought you weren't suppose to add any because it will hinder the Malo bacteria. So I didn't add any Kmeta at all. I was waiting to do that after Malo finished.


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## Boatboy24 (Jun 3, 2016)

TimK said:


> I thought you weren't suppose to add any because it will hinder the Malo bacteria. So I didn't add any Kmeta at all. I was waiting to do that after Malo finished.



So you should be fine on that front.


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## TimK (Jun 7, 2016)

Did a ph test today and it registered at 3.59. I think the higher pH means lower TA. Not sure if that means anything. When I mixed the wine, there was not many bubbles at all. Gonna wait a few more days and do another chromo test to see where it is at.


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## Johny99 (Jun 8, 2016)

Patience grasshopper. The paper chromotography test is good. PH should go up as Malo goes but is a lousy way to see if it is complete. Just keep it topped off, not too warm in the cellar and don't get too impatient to add kmbs. Remember, each time you open it to test, sample or whatever, you are adding oxygen and bad bugs. You don't want bad bugs, but you want the Malo to finish. Voice of experience, renewed Malo in the bottle is interesting at best. 

I often let my new wines just sit under air lock for a while after I think Malo may be done. Like 3-4 weeks. I figure a bit of co2 is better than a shot of air to see what is happening. If it is sound and of good pH, and 3.59 is good, your risk is low. 

it is late spring, go outside and contemplate this year's harvest, yours or someone else's, and let it be for a bit longer, just keep the air out. 

Hope it is beautiful in the end.


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## TimK (Jun 8, 2016)

Johny99 said:


> Patience grasshopper.
> 
> it is late spring, go outside and contemplate this year's harvest, yours or someone else's, and let it be for a bit longer, just keep the air out.



Great advice. I will try to be more Zen when it comes to the malo process. I am a tinkerer by nature. And since our Chilean grape purchase was put on hold, I guess I am looking for something to tinker with.


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## TimK (Jul 11, 2016)

Here is an update. Waited a couple more weeks and did another chromo. It's like groundhog's day. Looks identical to the last one I did. I am 16 weeks in. Is there any problems with re-adding bacteria? We have a second batch about ready to start Malo ferm and will have some bacteria left over. So I was thinking that we can use the remained bacteria on the one that does not seem to be moving. (Another note about that. The bacteria is not the same as what I used first, would that be a problem?). No Kmeta has been added yet. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. (On the pic, the one on the far right has been going for 16 weeks).


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## Boatboy24 (Jul 11, 2016)

That definitely looks like no activity. I'd re-pitch.


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## Johnd (Jul 11, 2016)

My zinfandel was looking the same last week, I repitched when I was doing the Chileans. We'll see what happens...............


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## TimK (Jul 11, 2016)

Thanks for the input. I am going to go ahead and re-pitch this week when we pitch the new batch and see what happens as well. Thanks for the help and for not commenting on how I spelled Sirah on the sheet! Haha. I am starting to lose it!!


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## berrycrush (Jul 11, 2016)

Johny99 said:


> Cold Malo is ok if you make sure you are safe. As long as you have active bubbles, the co2 is protecting you. I'm thinking the temperature is an issue as others why it is taking time. Remember, traditionally Malo fermentation happened in the spring as the cellar warmed up.
> 
> I try to keep my Malo phase at 60f, if pH is Good<3.8 and I can keep a clean airlock. I try to hit 65 to get it started, then cool it down. It can take 10-12 weeks. There is risk due to holding off on meta, but I like the results of the colder process. I leave it on the second lees as well.
> 
> Remember, do nothing, as long as bad stuff isn't happening, is often the best course.



Well said. Doing less is sometimes better than more.


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## TimK (Jul 11, 2016)

I agree sometimes less is better then more. I am just worried that the wine sitting to long unprotected, while waiting for the Malo to finish, will end badly.


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