# KV-1116 VS KV-1116 Dragons Blood



## seth8530 (Sep 2, 2013)

Howdy all, I have just been itching to try out my nice deep freezer turned tempature controlled fermentation chamber so I decided to wip up a double batch of dragons blood to try it out.


I am splitting this batch into two batches. One will be fermented at 51 degrees, the other will be fermented at room tempature. This is the concept of kv-1116 vs KV-1116

12 gallons of volume

16 lbs of mixed berry mix

Pectic Enzyme

96 ozs of bottled squirt lemon juice

Inverted sugar syrup until 1.070 at 101 degrees F

Two packets of KV-1116 rehydrated in 15 grams of GoFerm

Fermaid O added per this theory.

Target YAN=270 mg/L 

.3 grams fermaid O Yields 12 mg/L YAN

Assume the Dragons Blood starts out at 50 mg/L YAN

Therefore must add in 220 mg/L YAN

220/12= 18.33

18.33*.3= 5.5grams of fermaid O needed per liter. However, I will take the theory that fermaid O is used more efficently than DAP and only use 66% of that. This gives me 3.63 grams of fermaid O needed per liter.

12 gallons is roughly 45 liters. So I will end up using a total of 165 grams of fermaid O for 12 gallons of wine.


I will add half of the needed Fermaid O up front and then I will add the rest in a series of 4 additions. It is important to note that the values are halved because I am using 2 6 gallons Fermenters.



Addition 0 Addition 1 Addition 2 Addition 3 Addition 4

1.070 1.061 1.047 1.033 1.019 

41 grams 7 grams 7 grams 7 grams 7 grams



Any questions, comments or snide remarks? I plan on pitching as soon as my temperature controlled batch hits 51 degrees F.


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 2, 2013)

seth, i was going to mess with you and say the numbers were wrong, but I know that if i did you would work through the night recalculating...lol
will be interesting to see the difference temp makes on fermenting.


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## kryptonitewine (Sep 2, 2013)

James. He would work up a spreadsheet showing his calculations were correct. Lol.


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## seth8530 (Sep 2, 2013)

Actually, if you follow my steps their is a small error with my nutrient scheduling (; I made the schedule up assuming OG of 1.075 instead of 1.070. However, in a moment of superb lazyness I decided not to correct it or trouble myself further with it.

Yeast was pitched around 10 minutes ago after being aerated. The cold wine was at 55 degrees and falling the other one was room temp.


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## vacuumpumpman (Sep 2, 2013)

please keep us posted !!
Thanks for doing this and taking notes and all


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## seth8530 (Sep 3, 2013)

Temperature adjusted SG were 1.076

The hot one had a gravity this morning of 1.079 at an unknown temperature and was visibly fermenting.

The cold one had a gravity of 1.071 with no visible signs of fermentation.


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## seth8530 (Sep 3, 2013)

Nearly 24 hours after pitching the cold batch has not yet moved. The hot batch is chugging on along down to 1.060. 

Added 7 grams of nutrient to the hot batch.


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## cmason1957 (Sep 3, 2013)

When I have done "cold" ferments, I start at a normal temperature (say 70, whatever room temp is) let it build up steam for 12-24 hours and then put into the refrigerator. Hopefully yours will start at such a low temperature.


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## seth8530 (Sep 3, 2013)

Yep, that was what I was thinking. If this guy does not start within 36 more hours I will warm him up a bit until he starts rolling. I am not all that worried about it getting infected at that temperature so I am content letting it do its own thing for now.


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## dangerdave (Sep 3, 2013)

Very good, Seth. I'm keeping an eye on this one. You are operating at the very bottom of the yeast's temp range, so you should expect it to be a slow motion ferment.

Oh, and I know it's probably a typo, my good man, but aren't you using the *Lavin K1-V1116*.


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 3, 2013)

dave...dont you dare say something is wrong with his numbers..you know he will work a couple days figuring it out...
seth...I would have you in my corner any day....I may fire my accountant and hire you.....


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## seth8530 (Sep 3, 2013)

dangerdave said:


> Very good, Seth. I'm keeping an eye on this one. You are operating at the very bottom of the yeast's temp range, so you should expect it to be a slow motion ferment.
> 
> Oh, and I know it's probably a typo, my good man, but aren't you using the *Lavin K1-V1116*.



Yeah, the reason why I used the strain was because of the wide tempature rage it would tolerate. So, it should be interesting. The hot batch is like a raging bull.

Eh, not quite a typo. You are referring to the proper name of the yeast, but it is not un-common for it to be reffered to as kv-1116.



jamesngalveston said:


> dave...dont you dare say something is wrong with his numbers..you know he will work a couple days figuring it out...
> seth...I would have you in my corner any day....I may fire my accountant and hire you.....




Heh, thanks. But if I was your accountant we would both find our way on the unfriendly side of an IRS investigation lol.


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## seth8530 (Sep 4, 2013)

Morning 2

The hot batch is rip rolling on by. The SG was 1.030 and went right past my second addition of nutrient and landed at the third. To make up for this I combined the additions together and added 14 grams of fermaid O. Only one addition remains and that is at 1.019

The Cold batch is just sitting their chill. I think I might of saw some initial signs of yeast colonization or it could of been fruit breaking down. I am not sure. However, I added around 48 ozes of the hot batch into the cold batch... So lets just let it try and not ferment after that one!


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## Midwest Vintner (Sep 4, 2013)

I would put the temp around 55 degrees in order to ensure you don't get h2s.


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## midnightsolace (Sep 4, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> But if I was your accountant we would both find our way on the unfriendly side of an IRS investigation lol.



Just bribe them with DB.


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## seth8530 (Sep 4, 2013)

Soo, the hot fermentation went down to 1.020, I decided to go ahead and add in the remaining 7 grams of fermaid O it needed. The cold fermenting one is still holding around 1.70 ish but I think I am starting to see the initial signs of fermentation.


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## seth8530 (Sep 5, 2013)

Hot one is doing its thing.. The cold one was raised to 55 degrees last night.. This morning it is showing more evidence of fermentation. Gravity still has not moved much


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## Midwest Vintner (Sep 6, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> Hot one is doing its thing.. The cold one was raised to 55 degrees last night.. This morning it is showing more evidence of fermentation. Gravity still has not moved much



I am thinking you are testing the ragged edge of the yeast. 55F should give you some fermentation though. We dropped the temps in our production building when fermenting to get better results. When we move up in the world, we will move to temp controlled tanks. I have messed with lots of temps and a few yeasts in my time. Most won't handle under 60F very well.

According to this, 59F is the lowend....
http://winemakermag.com/component/com_yeasts/Itemid,165/view,chart/


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## seth8530 (Sep 6, 2013)

I am pretty close to the low end of the yeast temp range.

http://www.lalvinyeast.com/K1V1116.asp

This link from lavlin claims the low end is 50 F. However, I can tell that the yeast is certainly moving at a molasses like pace even at 55F. I gather that you tend to favour cooler fermentations?

In the end I dont care if it ends up tasting like garbage. All part of the test.


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## dangerdave (Sep 6, 2013)

That's my quandry over this test. I've always fermented my DB with a brew belt, achieving a temp around 78F as a result. The DB comes out nice that way. I like it, as does everyone else. All attempts, thus far, to improve on the original have met with demands for more of the original. My wife, Johnna, did like the one I made with more fruit steeped in it. I'll make that one again.

I'm very interested to see how the cool ferment turns out with the K1 yeast.


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## seth8530 (Sep 7, 2013)

Alright, the room temperature fermented KV1116 went all the way down to somewhere in between .989-990.. Easily the driest fermentation I have ever seen. The room temperature was around 69F when this was measured so the wine was likely either at 69 or a degree or two warmer.

The cold guy was at 55F and measured at 1.054 I added 7 grams of fermaid O. I definitely believe that the fermaid O helped the yeast ferment the warm guy that dry.


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## seth8530 (Sep 8, 2013)

Morning of 9/8/13 Cold blood was at 53F gravity was 1.040 I added 7 grams of fermaid O. I should check it again tonight that way I do not miss my next mark.


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## seth8530 (Sep 8, 2013)

Oops, double dosed it with fermaid.. no more.additions untill 1.019


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## dangerdave (Sep 9, 2013)

We're only human, Seth. Keep up the good work!


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## seth8530 (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks, I am trying my best to make this experiment fair. Some things to consider that might introduce some varibles include the fact that the cold fermented one had a longer time to sit on the fruit prior to ferment and also during ferment. This might make it dificult to tell whether it was the yeast that will make the wine fruitier or the longer soak.


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## seth8530 (Sep 9, 2013)

Gravity on the cold one was sitting around 1.030 around an hour ago.


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## jamesngalveston (Sep 9, 2013)

before he started his test we all, pretty much knew that a low temp was a slow ferment...
55 degrees was to be a very slow ferment...
68 degrees was to be a very moderate.
78 degrees wast to be a normal fast ferment.
so what is it your testing...


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## seth8530 (Sep 9, 2013)

jamesngalveston said:


> before he started his test we all, pretty much knew that a low temp was a slow ferment...
> 55 degrees was to be a very slow ferment...
> 68 degrees was to be a very moderate.
> 78 degrees wast to be a normal fast ferment.
> so what is it your testing...



Good question, the point of this testing is to analyze the differences in the finished product of two nearly identical wines that were fermented at different temperatures. Ie, colour, aroma, taste and other differences that arise from being fermented at a different temperature.

I am predicting that the cold fermented one will be a lot fruitier in the smell and taste.


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## seth8530 (Sep 14, 2013)

Racked the cold one, his gravity was at .998 I decided to take him out of the freezer to finish his business at room temp so my brother could ferment his ale at 68F.


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## Midwest Vintner (Sep 18, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> I gather that you tend to favour cooler fermentations?
> 
> In the end I dont care if it ends up tasting like garbage. All part of the test.



Yes I do. I've done this test before ::. Looking at moving to temp controlled primary when we can afford it (need a bigger primary soon!). We make fruit and "other than standard" wines, so we want the fruitiness, flavors and stronger aromas that a cooler fermentation provides. The trick to it, learn the fruit you are using, the yeast and how low you can go before it's too slow (possible spoilage oxidation issues). pH and other factors can change the temperature that the yeast can handle. Tried a real cool ferment on cranberry a few years back. Yeast didn't start, hit it with a dose of 1118, heated it up a bit and hoped it would age well. Every bottle I've tried, is not there yet. LOL

For me now, unless it's an experiment (which we still do!), it can cost lots of $$$$$$.


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## seth8530 (Sep 18, 2013)

Midwest Vintner said:


> Yes I do. I've done this test before ::. Looking at moving to temp controlled primary when we can afford it (need a bigger primary soon!). We make fruit and "other than standard" wines, so we want the fruitiness, flavors and stronger aromas that a cooler fermentation provides. The trick to it, learn the fruit you are using, the yeast and how low you can go before it's too slow (possible spoilage oxidation issues). pH and other factors can change the temperature that the yeast can handle. Tried a real cool ferment on cranberry a few years back. Yeast didn't start, hit it with a dose of 1118, heated it up a bit and hoped it would age well. Every bottle I've tried, is not there yet. LOL
> 
> For me now, unless it's an experiment (which we still do!), it can cost lots of $$$$$$.




Ahh understood, well hopefully before too long I will be able to confirm your results as another independent source. I would of preferred to have fermetened the cold blood at around 50F but it just was not wanting to behave for me thus it got fermented at 55F. 

BTW, I should note that I took the cold blood out of the freezer at .998 so that it could finish up and so that my brother could use the freezer to ferment some Ale.

I am hoping to be able to cold crash these , rack, superklear and then bottle by this time next month.


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## seth8530 (Sep 18, 2013)

Both the hot and cold are both dry at .990. I currently both have them in the deep freezer running at 32 degrees. Hopefully these guys should settle out soon.


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## seth8530 (Oct 5, 2013)

Today, we will be doing a little bit of back sweetining and bottling! Wohoo!


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## jamesngalveston (Oct 5, 2013)

seth, to you taste any difference in the two.


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## seth8530 (Oct 5, 2013)

Alright, just managed to get my dragons blood bottled. This project was a split project between me and a buddy whom this was his first time making any kind of wine, so I figured this would be a good first wine for him to help me make.

First, I would like to comment that both the hot and the cold dragons blood came out quite well. Both were backsweetened to the best of my abilities to 1.012 from .990.

Appearance:

- Cold: An interesting Rose ish colour. Not a light pink but certainly not red. 
- Hot: Very similar to the cold guy; however, a subtle darker deeper colour.









Aroma:

-Cold: Light airy fruitiness with a touch of rose/floral perfumy smell to it
-Hot: Light Airy fruitiness with out much of a floral character to it

Taste:
-Cold: Lite berry fruitiness balanced with slight acidity as one would expect with dragons blood. However, this one has a fuller perhaps slightly floral character going on with it that the hot one lacks. It feels slightly more balanced and a little fuller.
-Hot: Taste that you would expect of dragons blood, light fruit balanced with acid.

Conclusion:

Both the hot and the cold dragons blood are very clean tasting. I believe this is possibly because of nutrient schedule and fermaid O additions. The over all result is similar However, I believe the cold batch is superior in subtle ways. ie slightly more body and more is going on in the flavour profile. I believe that like most fruit wines and mead cold fermentation yields a superior result in the taste and aroma categories while yielding slightly lighter colour.


PSS

The one I am drinking is the cold one is this picture.....


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## dangerdave (Oct 6, 2013)

I have just finished fermenting a DB at room temp (about 68F), and I also noticed that it has a lighter color vs what I usually make under the brew belt (in the 80'sF). Strange that. However, it still smells quite fruity. It's clearing now, so I'll have a chance to give it a good taste in the next few weeks.

Thanks, Seth. These kinds of comparison studies are very helpful.


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 6, 2013)

Wow that looks lovely Seth! Thanks for the info! Sounds nice with a floral aroma! I think I'll try that yeast in my next batch. Sorry if you already posted this info but around what temp was the cold ferment? 68F? I'll try to search back in the thread a bit! To bad I gave my yeast to hubby to try in his cider recipe I'll have to buy more.


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## seth8530 (Oct 6, 2013)

dangerdave said:


> I have just finished fermenting a DB at room temp (about 68F), and I also noticed that it has a lighter color vs what I usually make under the brew belt (in the 80'sF). Strange that. However, it still smells quite fruity. It's clearing now, so I'll have a chance to give it a good taste in the next few weeks.
> 
> Thanks, Seth. These kinds of comparison studies are very helpful.



My pleasure, I am personally willing to take a lighter colour for a fruitier aroma and taste. Hopefully, we can get some more people posting comparative studies to help broaden our knowledge base. Be sure to let us know how yours turns out.



ckvchestnut said:


> Wow that looks lovely Seth! Thanks for the info! Sounds nice with a floral aroma! I think I'll try that yeast in my next batch. Sorry if you already posted this info but around what temp was the cold ferment? 68F? I'll try to search back in the thread a bit! To bad I gave my yeast to hubby to try in his cider recipe I'll have to buy more.



Thanks, I am really pleased with how these guys turned out. I really like the kv1-116(sp) yeast so I can vouch for it.

However, I would like to point out that while the aroma does have floral characteristics in it I do not mean to imply it is in your face like some of the meads I have aging.. But it is certainly there. 

When I said I fermented cold I mean I started the ferment off at 50F but then moved it up to 55F so it would actually get started. I ensured that the fermentation stayed at 55F by keeping the must inside of a deep-freezer with a temperature controller probe insulated onto the side of the fermentation bucket. Cold fermentation with fruit wines and meads tend to result in a lighter colored yet fruitier end result.


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 6, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> Yeah, I am personally willing to take a lighter colour for a fruitier aroma and taste. Hopefully, we can get some more people posting comparative studies to help broaden our knowledge base. Be sure to let us know how yours turns out. Yea, I am really pleased with how these guys turned out. I really like the kv1-116(sp) yeast so I can vouch for it. However, I would like to point out that while the aroma does have floral characteristics in it I do not mean to imply it is in your face like some of the meads I have aging.. But it is certainly there. When I said I fermented cold I mean I started the ferment off at 50F but then moved it up to 55F so it would actually get started. I ensured that the fermentation stayed at 55F by keeping the must inside of a deep-freezer with a temperature controller probe insulated onto the side of the fermentation bucket. Cold fermentation with fruit wines and meads tend to result in a lighter colored yet fruitier end result.



Ok thanks for that clarification! Because that color is delightful! Of course it would have to be nick named something else as it's no longer the colour of blood! But I would love to try to aim for colour like that! Did you have the deep freezer on the warmest setting? I would like to try it. Mine is empty ATM and fits 2-6 gallon fermenting pails perfectly!


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 6, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> My pleasure, I am personally willing to take a lighter colour for a fruitier aroma and taste. Hopefully, we can get some more people posting comparative studies to help broaden our knowledge base.



I happen to have 71B-1122 on hand, has anyone tried it with similar results?


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## seth8530 (Oct 6, 2013)

ckvchestnut said:


> Ok thanks for that clarification! Because that color is delightful! Of course it would have to be nick named something else as it's no longer the colour of blood! But I would love to try to aim for colour like that! Did you have the deep freezer on the warmest setting? I would like to try it. Mine is empty ATM and fits 2-6 gallon fermenting pails perfectly!



I did something a little bit better than just sticking my pail into the deepreezer on the warmest temperature.

What I did was use a temperature controller that cycles the freezer on or off based on a set temperature value that I input. Thus freezer tries to maintain 55 degrees no matter what. You can buy one of these guys 

http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Controls-Digital-Thermostat-Control/dp/B00368D6JA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1381088647&sr=8-2&keywords=temperature+controller


for like 75 bucks if you are like me and not very crafty or comfortable with electricity or you could make your own for less money. However, if you are mainly after the colour you really do not have to keep the tempature constant, just low.....


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 6, 2013)

Thanks so much!! I'm excited to try it. So much fun experimenting! Thanks for the link as well... I'm. Im not too handy but DH is, but invisibly have to nag to get some awesome custom set up of something unless he sees a huge benefit or it was his idea!


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## dangerdave (Oct 6, 2013)

ckvchestnut said:


> I happen to have 71B-1122 on hand, has anyone tried it with similar results?


 
This is exactly why these first person comparisons come in handy! As it turns out, I did a study comparing the EC-1118 with the 71B-1122 this past summer, using the DB recipe.

You'll find the thread here: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f86/yeast-comparison-ec-1118-vs-71b-1122-a-39619/

Hah! You've got some reading to do!


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 6, 2013)

Ha! Funny! I did read it but I obviously didn't remember what the results were but maybe now it's one to read it again. There was so much reading to do after that post that incidentally I forgot the pertinent info. Something made me decide to use EC-1118 though! What would your perceived notions be if the 71B-1122 were to be used at the same low temps as in Seth's experiment with the 1116?

Ok I just went and re-read the thread thanks for posting!! It was the bite and body you referred to as what caused you to still prefer the EC-1118. And what caused me to use it as I was intending to stick to original DB recipe! I'll be keeping a few bottles of this initial EC-1118 batch to compare to straight db recipe with no bananas and raisins and juice. Also... If I can keep it all long enough (I'll make more soon!), I would like to compare those two to a cold fermented batch with either 71b or k1v!  it sure would be nice if ppl with different batches could get together for a taste testing to save some time on all these comparing experiments!


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## seth8530 (Oct 11, 2013)

BTW, for any one single Dragons blood Aficionado, I am willing to send a hot and cold bottle to. First 3 people to respond will be put into a random drawing. The winner will receive a hot and cold bottle and will be invited to compare the differences.


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## michjen (Oct 12, 2013)

Me me me!!


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 12, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> BTW, for any one single Dragons blood Aficionado, I am willing to send a hot and cold bottle to. First 3 people to respond will be put into a random drawing. The winner will receive a hot and cold bottle and will be invited to compare the differences.



I'm interested! But is it even possible to ship to Canada?


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## dangerdave (Oct 12, 2013)

Count me one of the three, for sure, Seth! I'd be happy to give you my take on these two.


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## seth8530 (Oct 12, 2013)

Alright, your next task is to send me your addresses in a PM, just in case it turns out the shipping cost would make it unfeasible for me to ship it. Also, who do yall recommend I use for shipping this. UPS had rates that looked to be around 30$


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## michjen (Oct 12, 2013)

Just sent you a PM Seth


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## dangerdave (Oct 12, 2013)

If michjen has not tried Dragon Blood, then you should send it to her, Seth. She'll be a new convert then!


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## seth8530 (Oct 12, 2013)

Well, I would be more than willing to send it to her, but I am not sure how much canada shipping cost from the US or how to check that. Any Ideas?


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## michjen (Oct 13, 2013)

Nope I have never tried it! Always wanted to taste it see what it's like


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## michjen (Oct 13, 2013)

I suppose you could package it up and take it to the post office for a quote in the weight....


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## seth8530 (Oct 17, 2013)

ckvchestnut and Michjen, I have come to the realization that it is not really feasible for me to ship these guys off to Canada so I am going to have to go ahead and send it off to Danger. Thank you for your interest and I really wish I could of sent yall a bottle.

Thanks,
Seth


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## michjen (Oct 17, 2013)

How much is the shipping?? I would pay it just to taste it


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## dangerdave (Oct 24, 2013)

Well, I was fortunate to be the recipient of a bottle of each of these wines. One from the "cold" batch and one from the "hot".

I have to say, bravo!, Seth. Both of these DB's are excellent! You should be proud. The wife and I enjoyed them very much. There were noticeable diffences, for sure. But they were wonderful differences, indeed! The hot batch maintained the slightly sharper, subtly tart characteristic that I have come to recognize as classic Dragon Blood. The berry flavor is full and prominent. My wife refered to it as a "bold fruity blush". The cold batch was far more ethereal, having a profound berry aroma and a smooth, mellow taste. The balance was perfect! There are other differences between what I produce with the EC-1118, and Seth's results with the KV-1116. It's interesting to compare the two side by side in several variations.

On a more personal note, Seth's DB appeared to be less sweet than what I usually make. As a result, my lovely wife, Johnna, suggested I try less sugar in my next batch. Considering I started out using six cups of sugar in six gallons, and have since reduced it to 4.5, we are heading in the right direction.

Thank you, Seth for the chance to compare recipes. After making lots of DB for two plus years, I am finally making some positive changes to the original.


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## seth8530 (Oct 24, 2013)

dangerdave said:


> Well, I was fortunate to be the recipient of a bottle of each of these wines. One from the "cold" batch and one from the "hot".
> 
> I have to say, bravo!, Seth. Both of these DB's are excellent! You should be proud. The wife and I enjoyed them very much. There were noticeable diffences, for sure. But they were wonderful differences, indeed! The hot batch maintained the slightly sharper, subtly tart characteristic that I have come to recognize as classic Dragon Blood. The berry flavor is full and prominent. My wife refered to it as a "bold fruity blush". The cold batch was far more ethereal, having a profound berry aroma and a smooth, mellow taste. The balance was perfect! There are other differences between what I produce with the EC-1118, and Seth's results with the KV-1116. It's interesting to compare the two side by side in several variations.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the extremely thoughtful review. I appreciate all of your comments and I am very glad you enjoyed. I take a certain level of pride knowing that the originator of dragons blood seriously enjoyed my take on the recipe. 

If you had to choose one of the either my hot or my cold as your every day drinker which one would you choose? Or perhaps you would drink one or the other based on the occasion? I might have to end up sending one of these off to competition just to see how it does. ( not that I use competition as my primary wine making benchmark)


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## dangerdave (Oct 25, 2013)

My wife and I both liked the hot version better. I think that was mostly due to it being similar (realively speaking) to my original. I have tried various yeasts, but we both still like the result of the EC-1118 the best. I need to send you a bottle of mine so you can see how mine usually turns out.

Given our combined research (you and I), I will be making my recipe with EC-1118 yeast, room temp ferment, and a little less sugar.

Again, thanks for your efforts, Seth.


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## seth8530 (Oct 25, 2013)

I would be interested in trying one of your styles and seeing how it is different from mine. I think it is interesting that you liked the hot version of mine better than the cold because I like the cold a lot better than my hot one. All in all I think it is nice fun to see what things different people like better.


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 26, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> I would be interested in trying one of your styles and seeing how it is different from mine. I think it is interesting that you liked the hot version of mine better than the cold because I like the cold a lot better than my hot one. All in all I think it is nice fun to see what things different people like better.



Maybe because they are so used to drinking hot style for so long. Now I'm on the fence about whether my next batch will be strict recipe or my modification again because it turned out so good!


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## seth8530 (Oct 26, 2013)

Experimentation is the cornerstone of home wine-making... Experiment on! In fact, to be perfectly honest Dragons Blood in its most basic form is just an exceptionaly successful modification of SkeeterPee that was created by experimentation... And god only knows what was going on when Skeeter Pee was first made lol.


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## ckvchestnut (Oct 26, 2013)

seth8530 said:


> Experimentation is the cornerstone of home wine-making... Experiment on! In fact, to be perfectly honest Dragons Blood in its most basic form is just an exceptionaly successful modification of SkeeterPee that was created by experimentation... And god only knows what was going on when Skeeter Pee was first made lol.



Haha! Yes I hear you! Still want to try skeeter pee! This is a great place to learn new recipes and share our home based experiments - love it!


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## jamesngalveston (Oct 26, 2013)

I too would like to send both seth and dave a bottle..of my dragon blood for scruitny...I thats ok with you two.


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## seth8530 (Oct 26, 2013)

I would be interested in trying your dragon's blood. However, I would assume Dave is the expert.


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## dangerdave (Oct 27, 2013)

I think we have lot of Draon Blood experts around here! The wine makers on the forum have just been _fantastic_. I would never have been able to do all of these experiments or variations on my own. Being able to read, see, and even taste other people's takes on my own recipe has been priceless. I am a better wine maker for having known the lot of you. I wish I could sit and drink a glass with each of you and talk about making wine.

James, I am going to PM you my address, if you will do me the same. I would love to sample your DB, and have you try mine. I have had the wonderful opportunitry to try five or six versions of DB from various folks on this forum, each with a charcter of it's own---a signature of it's creater. However, I have four packages to send out tomorrow, so yours might have to wait a few weeks. I have two going out for the strawberry wine contest, one to Seth, and one to Kraffty.

There's a world of swapping going on!


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