# Sweetener



## mtstarr (Jan 16, 2008)

I posted this as a reply to another post with out much of a reply. I would love to get more insight. The topic was WE conditioner for sweetening your prebottled wine.
...I have used this in the past and had problems with it. I would love to know what to do differently. Here is the scoop. I started with 6 gallons of wine (chard) and split it into two 3 gallon batches. I did a bench test to figureout how much sweetener to add. I took one of the half batchs, 3 gal, and sweetened it with WE conditioner. Stirred it in to the 3 gallons of wine. It tasted great. I bottled all six gallons and labeled them to tell the difference between the sweetened and un-sweetened. After about a week the sweetened wine began to get floater in it. I have a bottle that I kept and it is disturbing how much "stuff" is in there. 



On to the attempted rescue. I uncorked all bottles of sweetened wine, put them into closest fitting jug I had, add an air lock and put it into a 32 or so degree fridge. After a couple of weeks I pull the jug, rack the wine and rebottled. The wine is much more clear but still has a small of amount of "dust" like particles if you roll the bottle.


The wine was from a kit so it hashadpotassium metabisulphated andpotassium sorbate added prior to the last racking. The other 3 gallons have no haze or "floaters". The WE conditioner has a Potassium Sorbate in it so it should not have fermented.


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## Wade E (Jan 16, 2008)

Did you use a mix stir o mix it in thoroughly? I dont use this product as I wasnt thrilled with the taste it left in my wine.


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## mtstarr (Jan 16, 2008)

I used a mixing paddle, I believe it was mix well.


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## Wade E (Jan 16, 2008)

This is a very thick liquid and I dont believe you can thoroughly mix that in sufficiently with that method. Thats my opinion.


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## mtstarr (Jan 16, 2008)

Interesting idea, how would you mix it? Any ideas on why it would take a week + to show the floaters? Did they come back together maybe?


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## Wade E (Jan 17, 2008)

Its very possible. I would mix it with a drill mounted mix stir.


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## mtstarr (Jan 17, 2008)

I should have been more clear, that is what I mean by a mixing paddle. It is a fold up paddle that will fit into a carboy, you can connect it to a drill.


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## joeswine (Jan 17, 2008)

WHAT do you mean when you state floaters,dust I can somewhat understand ,areyou saying fine particals still in suspension or are they on the bottom? did you filter the wine prier to bottling,if not you can begetting the haze do to the amount of gloucose add ,sort of like a peckten haze,let it settle out it might take a little time but it will settle out




in the future try using simple suyrp as a additive,2cups sugar,1 cup water desolve ,cool and use,don't forget the chemicals also,this will do the trick



*Edited by: joeswine *


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## hannabarn (Jan 18, 2008)

Now I am wondering! I was about to add some WE conditioner to my lambrusco. Is simple syrup better? I want to bring the sg up from a little less than 1 to 1.1


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## rgecaprock (Jan 19, 2008)

I've used both, I think simple syrup is better and besides it is always on hand and cheap. I'm not very precise....I just add it until I get the desired sweetness by taste.
Ramona


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## hannabarn (Jan 19, 2008)

Well, I added the conditioner. So far, so good! Will wait and see. Tastes pretty good now!


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## joeswine (Jan 19, 2008)

LADY YOUR SO RIGHT


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## hannabarn (Jan 19, 2008)

I added the conditioner to my nice clear lambrusco and now I have some nice cloudy ugly looking lambrusco. I stirred the heck out of it with a wine whip so now will let it bulk age and see what happens. So much for the WE wine conditioner!


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## Wade E (Jan 19, 2008)

This is 1 reason I use sugar syrup, the other is the artificial flavor i think it gives.


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## hannabarn (Jan 19, 2008)

I flipped a coin! Heads---conditioner, Tails----simple syrup. I guess I lost!!!!
At least I don't have to buy any more conditioner


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## joeswine (Jan 20, 2008)

we all make mistakes thats how we learn


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## muscadine wine (Jan 20, 2008)

I have a question on this topic. I made some simple syrup by adding 2 cups of sugar to 1 cup of boiling water. Boiled and stirred for 5 minutes and allowed to cool. I now have crystals and part of the liquid seems to be turning back into sugar. Any suggestions on this problem would be appreciated. The wine conditioner I had been using from my LHBS did not exhibit this problem.


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## grapeman (Jan 21, 2008)

See the following from Masta



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<T>
<TR =tableLedger>
<TD style="WIDTH: 140px" align=middle>Author</TD>
<TD align=middle>Message</TD></TR>
<TR =tableSearchLedger>
<TD colSpan=2>Forum: Winexpert






Topic: Started Island Mist</TD></TR>
<TR =msgableSide>
<TD vAlign=top rowSpan=2>masta 

Replies: 22 
Views: 642 

View Post

 
<TD>*Started Island Mist* 
Posted: 02 March 2007 at 3:59pm </TD></TR>
<TR =msgableRow>
<TD =msgLineDevider style="BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 0px" vAlign=top height=84>
<DIV =msg style=": left; OVERFLOW: auto">So do you add the sugar to meet a specific SG? Shooting for 1.090? Do you just dump it in the juice and stir or dissolve it in water first and add to the juice?Smurfe I have been following the directions for making invert sugar (in the link below paragraphfive using lemon juice) to help hydrolyze the sucrose into fructose and glucose which the yeast has an easier time converting to ethanol and CO2. I starting doing this since some of thebatches I was adding a lot of sugar to were taking longer... 

 </TD></TR></T></TABLE>


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## Tomy (Jan 21, 2008)

You might try this making simple syrup. 1 cup water in a pan on the stove trun on stove just below med heat and add one cup sugar then stir till water becomes clear with no crystals in the bottom of the pan, and making sure you do not boil. Then slowly add the last cup of sugar while stiring untill the water becomes clear again, and there is no crystals in bottom of pan. I do not let the simple syrup cool but pour it in the wine and give it a good stir. It has allways come out great using this method for me.


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## Bert (Jan 21, 2008)

muscadine wine...I have a question, was the syrup nice and clear after it cooled or was it cloudy???? I have usedsyrup prettyoften and even make it up ahead of time and store it in the refrigerator for later use.


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## Mark (Jan 21, 2008)

Thought I read somewhere that bottled conditioners also include sorbate.If I use a simple syrup solution should I also add sorbate (or some other additive)?


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## muscadine wine (Jan 21, 2008)

Bert--the syrup was clear as a bell when I took it off the stove. After it cooled, and I poured it into a bottle, it had the slight tan color that was an exact match to the color of the wine conditioner that I bought from my LHBS.


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## Bert (Jan 21, 2008)

Mark... Yes you do need to use sorbate and k-meta with the simple syrup...


muscadine wine....Honestly I just don't know...I have used syrup in a lot of my fruit wines with no problem...I just not sure what has happened


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## muscadine wine (Jan 21, 2008)

Bring water to boil, then add sugar. Boil and stir for five minutes. Should I be doing it some other way? I know it should be hard to mess this up, but something is going wrong.


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## Bert (Jan 21, 2008)

Maybe we are looking at the wrong thing.....What was the temp. of the wine when the syrup was added.....What kind of wine are weworking with???? I guess I'm just looking for something....I have used simple syrup and not had a problem, but not to say there can't be some out there.*Edited by: Bert *


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## muscadine wine (Jan 21, 2008)

The crystals and "setting up" were noticeable about 24 hours later in the bottle that I had put the syrup in. I had already put most of the bottle in the cranberry, and there was a small amount left.


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## corn field (Jan 21, 2008)

Did you us a stainless steel pot to boil the water and sugar in ?


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## swillologist (Jan 22, 2008)

I don't think you need to boil it that long. You just need to dissolve the sugar and killany bacteria in the water and both shouldhave beendone with a quick stirwhen it starts to boil. *Edited by: swillologist *


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## joeswine (Jan 22, 2008)

GOOD MORNING



when you desolve sugar( cane sugar)after the water has desolved the sugar and or if you useing high heat you will turn the solution a deeper color thats natural ,your starting to carmelize the sugar and take it to a different level of thickness,theres no problem with that itadds a better mouth feel reinforce it with K-MET/SORBATE ,the trick is to keep it in a air tight container like a BALL canning jar with a seal it will hold for a long time then as if magic start to form rock candy on the bottom of the jar


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## muscadine wine (Jan 22, 2008)

cornfield-- Yes, I did have a stainless steel pot that I used, courtesy of my wife. Yes, she caught me!

swillologist--I may try that, get it hot enough to completely dissolve the sugar and take it off the stove. 

joeswine--should I try what swillologist recommended? Maybe I am getting it to hot for to long. I had one of the bottles that the Wine Conditioner came in, and that is what I put my syrup in. As I said, help is needed and all is appreciated. I am still in the rookie stage on a lot of this.


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## joeswine (Jan 23, 2008)

MW///your really not going to boil the sugar if you keep the burner on med.heat that should be enough to desolve the sugr ,until it clears but you need patients to do this keep stirring all the while the process is going and it will clear,place it in a glass container with a good lid (air tight) or it will evaporate in time,don,t be concerned about what type pot your using doesn,t apply to this applacation,


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## Bert (Jan 23, 2008)

joeswine, thanks for stepping in andhelping with this problem with the simple syrup...Your answer about the caramelized sugar made sense....I use syrup in a lot of my fruit wines and was very interested in what was going wrong with this batch....No matter how much wine we make or how long we have been doing it, we can still learn some new things...


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## joeswine (Jan 23, 2008)

don't you just love this hobby


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## muscadine wine (Jan 23, 2008)

joeswine---I will try keeping the heat down on the next batch, which will probably be this weekend. I have 11 gallons of scuppernong, 3 gallons of blueberry, and, well, I'm just behind. This thing with the sugar has been a real problem, and I think that with all this fine help, I may get going. Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone. I will try them out shortly and see what happens.

And yes, I have seen that you can constantly learn new things!


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## joeswine (Jan 24, 2008)

mw/////what is scuppernong?


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## muscadine wine (Jan 24, 2008)

I guess that it is a member of the muscadine family or a closely related. I'm sure a more knowledgeable person could tell you better than I can. It is common in my area. It is a light green to golden color when ripe and they are usually very sweet. I'm constantly eating them while picking them.


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## joeswine (Jan 28, 2008)

MUSCADINE WINE//well how did yiu make out this weekend?



*Edited by: joeswine *


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## muscadine wine (Jan 28, 2008)

Nothing went as planned. I got the bottles out and ready, but that is as far as it got. I hope one night this week to get all of the cranberry bottled. So much wine, so little time. Unless I take a day off......................


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## joeswine (Jan 29, 2008)

I've found that when I'am rushed or don't have enough time to do and take the care that is required ,I always make more work for myself,if the wine is prep right it will keep and wait for you to take care of it, one time right,,


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