# Apfelwein (Hard German Apple Cider)



## smurfe

I had a request to post the recipe for Apfelwin which is a hard apple cider recipe. I have made this before and it is sort of hard to describe. It is a cross between a beer and a wine. It is pretty tasty. I will post the recipe I use here as well as a link to our sister site Homebrewtalk.com of the post for the recipe creator, EdWort to give him full credit for this tasty recipe. Here is Ed's recipe:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/

Award Winning Apfelwein Recipe (German Hard Cider) Apple Wine Recipe

Placed 1st in the Cider & Apple Wine category at the BJCP sanctioned Alamo Cerveza fest (out of 11 entries) and took 2nd place for Best of Show for the main category of Meads & Ciders (out of 50 entries).

Ingredients

5 Gallons 100% Apple Juice (No preservatives or additives) I use Tree Top Apple Juice

2 pounds of dextrose (corn sugar) in one pound bags

1 five gram packet of Montrachet Wine Yeast

Equipment

5 Gallon Carboy (I use a Better Bottle)
Carboy Cap or Stopper with Airlock
Funnel

First sanitize the carboy, airlock, funnel, stopper or carboy cap. 
Open one gallon bottle of apple juice and pour half of it into the carboy using the funnel.

Open one bag of Dextrose and carefully add it to the now half full bottle of apple juice. Shake well. 

Repeat Steps 2 and 3, then go to step 5.

Pour in the mixture of Apple Juice and Dextrose from both bottles into the carboy. 

Add all but 1 quart of remaining 3 gallons of apple juice to the carboy. 

Open the packet of Montrachet Yeast and pour it into the neck of the funnel.

Use the remaining quart of juice to wash down any yeast that sticks. I am able to fit all but 3 ounces of apple juice into a 5 gallon Better Bottle. You may need to be patient to let the foam die down from all shaking and pouring.

Put your stopper or carboy cap on with an airlock and fill the airlock with cheap vodka. No bacteria will live in vodka and if you get suckback, you just boosted the abv. 

There’s no need to worry about filling up a carboy so full when you use Montrachet wine yeast. There is no Kreuzen, just a thin layer of bubbles I'm able to fit all but 4 oz. of my five gallons in the bottle. Ferment at room temperature.

It will become cloudy in a couple of days and remain so for a few weeks. In the 4th week, the yeast will begin to drop out and it will become clear. After at least 4 weeks, you can keg or bottle, but it is ok to leave it in the carboy for another month or so. Racking to a secondary is not necessary. It ferments out very dry (less than 0.999, see here)

Apfelwein really improves with age, so if you can please let it sit in a carboy for up to 3 months before bottling or kegging, then let it sit even longer. Here's what some folks think.

If you want to bottle and carbonate, ¾ cup of corn sugar will work fine. Use as you would carbonate a batch of beer.

Remember to reserve judgment till after 3 glasses. It grows on you.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND START ANOTHER BATCH 2 WEEKS AFTER YOU START THIS ONE.
YOU WILL THANK ME LATER! 


GENERAL QUESTIONS
compiled by Dammed Squirrels from the first 37 pages of this thread. Thanks DS!

How does it taste?
It ferments quite dry. Some people have tried different yeasts in order to achieve a sweeter taste. It may take you a few glasses to get a feel for the flavor. It is very reminiscent of a sort of apfelwein produced locally in Germany. There really is no comparable product in the United States. It's drier and less sweet than commercial hard ciders. It gets better with age and at 6+ months, the apple flavor really comes out.

How do you sweeten it?
Many folks back sweeten it with Wine Conditioner. Wine Conditioner is a blend of sucrose and sorbic acid. The addition of 2-4 oz. per gallon adds sweetness and prevents renewed fermentation. It can be purchased as any LHBS that caters to wine makers. Others will use Splenda or lactose (other non-fermentable sugars). Germans who prefer it sweet (or Suß as they say) will add a splash of Sprite or 7up to a glass. This is the easiest method as you don't have to make a whole "sweet" batch that way.

What is the difference between Apfelwein and hard cider?
EdWort says, “Most ciders are a bit sweeter. Ciders and Apfelwein are about 6% abv, but I like the little boost I give it with 2 pounds of Dextrose. It adds no body or flavor and still tastes like Possmann's Apfelwein, only it will kick your butt much quicker.”

Is this like Apfelmost / Apfel Korn?
No. Apfel Korn is a german liqeur made from wheat spirits. Apfelmost is spontaneously fermented with fresh-pressed apples or apple juice. It is probably similar, but the results may vary as a result of the spontaneous fermentation. Either way, Apfelmost is most certainly has a lower alcohol content since the initial gravity is not increased by the use of concentrate or corn sugar.

What’s the difference between apple juice and cider?
Cider is made by pressing apples. Juice is then filtered to remove all of the stuff that makes it cloudy.

Can I use apple cider instead?
Sure! You can use whatever you want. However, there is not enough information in this thread to give you any better details as to how it will turn out. I recommend starting a new thread or ask more experienced cider-makers.

What kind of Apple Juice should I use?
Ideally, you want to use 100% natural apple juice with no preservatives. The only acceptable preservative is ascorbic acid, which is a source of vitamin C and does not affect fermentation. Pasteurized juice is preferred, since it will have less bacteria.

How much will this recipe cost me?
5 gallons of Apfelwein can be made for between 20 and 25 dollars.

What else can you do with this recipe?
EdWort says, "this makes a great Grog in the winter time. Take a quart in a sauce pan, add some rum, turbinado sugar, and float a cinnamon stick in it and simmer for a while. Serve hot in mugs. It'll warm you right up."


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## Inassunda

*Apfelwein Hard German Apple Cider*

Maybe some of you knowledgeable folks here can help me. This past weekend I had a concoction which was described to me as a hard cider. It had no carbonation but did taste like a heavily liqoured cider. Heres the thing--Im relatively sure this wasnt something that they fermented and bottled. Im pretty sure it was just a mixture of a few different liquors--mentioned were rum, vodka and some Everclear--and something like apple juice and cinnamon. My problem is that no one was forthcoming with the recipe--it was one of those "secret" things. 

My question--anyone have a recipe which would produce a drink like I described? Something that could be bottled up in some extra bottles I have around and would keep safely? I know Im short on details here, but thats the info I have. Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## Old Philosopher

Inassunda said:


> Maybe some of you knowledgeable folks here can help me. This past weekend I had a concoction which was described to me as a hard cider. It had no carbonation but did taste like a heavily liqoured cider. Heres the thing--Im relatively sure this wasnt something that they fermented and bottled. Im pretty sure it was just a mixture of a few different liquors--mentioned were rum, vodka and some Everclear--and something like apple juice and cinnamon. My problem is that no one was forthcoming with the recipe--it was one of those "secret" things.
> 
> My question--anyone have a recipe which would produce a drink like I described? Something that could be bottled up in some extra bottles I have around and would keep safely? I know Im short on details here, but thats the info I have. Any advice would be much appreciated.


This sounds close. Mix it by the glass, pitcher or barrel. Just don't plan on remembering what you did next.

The Beavis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ingredients:
1 oz Everclear 
1 oz Purple passion 
1 oz Vodka 
1 oz Cider (White lightning) 
1 oz Southern Comfort 
1 oz Bacardi 151 proof rum 
1 oz Plum Wine 
1 oz Water


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## Courtney

I know that my boss made apple shine with a recipe like this one. It was amazing. I will get with her and get you the recipe if you would like. 

-Courtney


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## arcticsid

I actually made this recipe a few months ago, and it was quite good. I shared that gallon with my neighbor up the road and it was quite intoxicating! It is quite simple and worked exactly as Steve said it would.


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## crazyx2

I'm going to put this recipe (or my cider skills) to the test, as I haven't tried doing a cider before. But this recipe sounds really nice, I think the only thing I'll change is the yeast to try and get the finished product a little sweeter.. but definately don't want to lose the kick haha


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## arcticsid

It'll work crazy. Some may say, if you like to add a cinnamon stick or two. But if you want to do that wait tillit is almost finished. That cinnamon seems to do its own thing and could overpower it before you know it.

It is a good recipe, and it will work. Just don't try to change it until you tried it at least once.


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## arcticsid

Crazy, take a look at some of the threads in here about Skeeter Pee. It uses bottled lemon juice, it has a kick, it is refreshing. it is simple, inexpensive to make and can take a high alcohol if you desire. It is also versatile and can be tweaked abit with other flavours.


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## nursejohn

I just started a batch of this 2 days ago and it is fermenting like crazy. It has the whole room smelling good. Can't wait to try it. I'll try to keep everyone updated on it. Thanks Smurfe for sharing the recipe, John.


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## nursejohn

Almost 3 weeks into this and it appears like it is starting to clear. Smells wonderful. My question is, should I rack to another carboy to degass before bottling? I know to add K+Sorbate if I back sweeten, just didn't know about degassing. Thanks for any advice, John.


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## nursejohn

I have a question that I hope that someone can help me with. I am making a batch of Apfelwein and I think I goofed! It was in its 4th week and it was clearing nicely. Here is what I did: I thought that I would degass it and did so. Now it seems that it won't clear at all. I put in some SuperKleer a few days ago and it is still very cloudy. Any suggestions that might help. I know now that I should have left it alone and just followed the directions to the letter. Thanks for your time to reply, nursejohn.


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## Goodfella

How long has it been since you degassed?

I think a little patience will take care of this for you...


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## BIGJEFF

I want to make that wine, the apple juice I.m thinking about using has vitamin C in it (the ingredient list doesn't say ascorbic acid but just vitamin C). 
Other than that it only has juice from concentrate and juice from fresh fruits.

It's also "mild-low acid"??

Thanks!


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## Drez

*Receipe Changes?*

I think I'm going to start a batch of this but curious about a couple substitution questions regarding the recipe. 

*1) I could not find Dextrose*, can I use other sugars? I.e. Fine cane sugars that will dissolve well? 

*2) I have Lalvin EC - 1118 *(Prise de Mousse) *yeast,* will work just as well? The description from my limited knowledge appears to suggest it would work just as well, specifically the low foam aspect but I'm a newb...



> Lalvin EC - 1118 (Prise de Mousse) : This is the original, steady, low foamer, excellent for barrel fermentation or for working on heavy suspended pulps. It is one of the most popular wine yeasts in the world. It ferments well at low temperatures, flocculates well, and produces very compact lees. It is good for Champagne bases, secondary (bottle) fermentations, restarting stuck fermentations, and for late harvest grapes. It is also the yeast of choice for apple, crabapple, cranberry, hawthorn, and cherry wines. It has excellent organoleptic properties and should be in every vinter's refrigerator. Alcohol toxicity is 18% and it ferments relatively fast. It tolerates temperatures from 39-95° F. It is not, however, tolerant of concurrent malolactic fermentation.


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## Drez

Found dextrose at the beer shop, $3 a Kilo so pretty much on par with other sugars it seems, except maybe white refined. Used the Lavin EC 1118 and seems to be working so far pretty well. A head has formed so def fermenting ok and no so wild that I'm worried about overflow. used 19.5 L of juice to give it room in case of wild foaming but true to its description so far its pretty low foam, I suspect the last 500ml would have fit.


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## gesnipes

Drez said:


> I think I'm going to start a batch of this but curious about a couple substitution questions regarding the recipe.
> 
> *1) I could not find Dextrose*, can I use other sugars? I.e. Fine cane sugars that will dissolve well?
> 
> *2) I have Lalvin EC - 1118 *(Prise de Mousse) *yeast,* will work just as well? The description from my limited knowledge appears to suggest it would work just as well, specifically the low foam aspect but I'm a newb...



You can use other sugars. The reason dextrose is used is because it doesn't alter the flavor. You can use sugar crystals, but you will get a different taste.


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## gesnipes

I moved my first batch of completed muscadine to gallon jugs to free up my carboy. Now I can make my first batch of apfelwein. Most everyone raves about it, so I'm eager to give it a try. I started the batch last night, and it's lightly foaming. Can't wait to get my first sampling


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## Drez

Update, things were fermenting quite well so I figured I would add the spare AJ that I was afraid to add in the beginning in case of significant foam from the Lavin yeast switch (after boiling and cooling the opened AJ that is).

Topping up closer to the neck was a back idea, foam was spurting right out of the airlock. Allowing an inch or two before the neck gives easily two or three times the surface area for foam to break and so I had to take it right back out again to prevent overflow. Just an FYI for anyone else doing this as some of us are new and were not used to primary fermentation in the carboy.


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## cheesecake

Brought a bottle of this to the local brew shop and they said it was pretty goiod.


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## Repsolal

I made 5gal of this using ec-1118 and regular white sugar and it turned out very good. I bulk aged for just over 1 year, not completely intentionally....... I forgot about it for a long while and then always seemed to have something else that got bottled ahead of it. But after a year it is excellent !
I have another batch fermenting now and a 2 1/2 gal batch with added blackberry jam. At a buck a bottle its hard to beat.


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## Daisy

The recipe you given seem to very tasty.I appreciate your work.
I visit the website Homebrewtalk.com very first time and its very informative and fascinating.
I am glad to visit this thread ,and learn various new things.I know one more resource *winegrowersdirect.com.au *which is very interesting too.

Thanks.


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## gesnipes

*Big Blunder*

My first batch of apfelwein is almost done fermenting, but I thought the ABV tasted a little low, so I made a wee little error. Normally I disolve table sugar in water and add it to my wine, but this time I decided to use dextrose. I dissolved it into a quart glass, but decided to pour it in without fully dissoving it. I didn't feel like heating some water to finish the job. It was a slight milky color. I poured a quart in, and a quart and a half came out. Like a geiser. 

Talbe sugar doesn't have that affect - at least not on the other wines I have made. What a mess


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## Sirs

sorry to hear about your trouble but........


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## gesnipes

Sirs said:


> sorry to hear about your trouble but........



I greatly appreciate the sympathy


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## Drez

*Done*

So its been about 4 weeks and its clearly done fermenting at this point but still fairly cloudy. While racking down or clearing isn't needed is it still of benefit to rack toa secondary, top up or use anything to clear or will aging over another ~4-8 weeks do this for me?


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## SteveL

I spend a lot of time over at HBT as I started out as a beer brewer. Early in my brewing career I started making this and have not stopped. This stuff is great. I know that it is not really a wine or a cider, it is just good. I usually carb up half the batch so I have both sparkling and still. I use 1L flip top bottles as they are the easiest IMO. The only warning I have about the stuff is it sneaks up on you. It packs quite the punch.

As for the recipe, I follow it just the way that Ed made it with one change. I use Nottingham yeast instead of wine yeast. Not as much a sulfer smell and I think it comes out cleaner in the end.

As for proccess, all I do is poor juice into carboy, add sugar, pitch yeast. Let it sit in the same primary for 8 weeks, bottle. Wait three weeks (even for the ones I did not add carb tabs to). Open bottle, enjoy.

Like I said, be careful, none of us can be held responsible for the next morning!


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## Drez

Just having my first batch now, only been about 8 weeks old but turned out very well. I have another batch started that I intend to age longer. 

Note: I used EC1118 works just fine. I found a little space is needed to allow some head to build up, not a lot, no more than is pictured in the original recipe link.

I mix a little different, I pour the dextrose into the carboy and stir with my drill powered rod till the dextorse is dissolved. Pretty minor change but works well. 

An incredibly budget recipe and one of the easiest out there. 

You'll note a lot of people remarking that it "sneaks up on you" I will add that this is proabaly due to the fact it has a fairly light taste is ever so drinkable. Given that, drinking rather than sipping will certainly put you in the bag. 

Enjoy! 

I Suspect hence forth one of these will always be on the go.


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## Wade E

I still have not done this or the Skeeter Pee. I really need to get off my a$$ and do both.


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## SteveL

Wade, yes you should. I have not done the Skeeter Pee, but we love the Apfelwine. I just opened a 3 year old bottle of the stuff, it was excelent. It had really smoothed out and there was quite a bit more apple flavor.


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## ERASMO

I bottled the three gallon batch of apfelwein today after an 11 month bulk aging in a glass carboy. I was kind of disappointed because it didnt really seem to have alot of flavor. I did not carb the batch it is still. Is this normal?


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## Wade E

Carbing will always bring out more flavor.


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## IQwine

wade... I have made both..... SP and Apfelwein
U need to get with the program


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## SteveL

Wade E said:


> Carbing will always bring out more flavor.



This one was not one of the carbed ones. The SWMBO likes it better carbed so those bottles never stay around very long. However I do agree, the sparkling version always has more apple flavor.


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## Drez

ERASMO said:


> I was kind of disappointed because it didnt really seem to have alot of flavor.



I would agree if your expecting a strong punch of apple I'm not sure you'll find it, perhaps as it ages, I cant say. I didn't find the apple flavour strong though, but I found that (along with the dryness) to be a quality rather than a detraction. I don't actually care much for sweet or fruity wine in most cases (we all have exceptions). The light flavour made it very refreshing and drinkable. 



Wade E said:


> Carbing will always bring out more flavor.



I think I might try this on some of the next batch. I bet it pushes the the experience closer towards cider. As of right now I found it to be somewhere between a cider (Strongbow or Blackthorn) and a white wine. A nice departure from the other carboys...


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## gesnipes

ERASMO said:


> I bottled the three gallon batch of apfelwein today after an 11 month bulk aging in a glass carboy. I was kind of disappointed because it didnt really seem to have alot of flavor. I did not carb the batch it is still. Is this normal?



I also am disappointed in the flavor. I have read where aging supposedly brings out the apple flavor. I'm sure it does, but having a weak starting flavor concerns me.


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## Drez

gesnipes said:


> I also am disappointed in the flavor. I have read where aging supposedly brings out the apple flavor. I'm sure it does, but having a weak starting flavor concerns me.



I'm not sure "weak" is the right word, subtle yes but not necessarily weak. Weak implies that there is something "wrong" with it, that it _should_ be strong flavour but isn't. I think the flavour is mild and I would argue that is a part of its character. Sometimes less is more. I think if people go in expecting a fruit wine made from apples that you may be unhappy as that not really what it is.


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## FTC Wines

gesnipes said:


> I also am disappointed in the flavor. I have read where aging supposedly brings out the apple flavor. I'm sure it does, but having a weak starting flavor concerns me.


My Apple wine was also blah at 1 yr. at 18 mo. it was better & at 2 yrs. it was very good, could not believe the difference! It had an oakie Chardonay flavor with a hint of Apple. Give it more time. roy


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## sly22guy

Apfelwein Batch; Forgot to stabilize my last batch before bottling. Giving them for xmas just bottled. how long will they last or should i uncork all of them and stabilize them and rebottle. The recipe didn't call for any k-met or potassium sorbate, and i just kinda for got to add it.


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## SteveL

You should be fine, I have bottles of this that are 4 years old, when I made that batch I didn't even know what stabilizing and k-meta were. They are still quite good.


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## sly22guy

Ok cool, that makes me feel better!


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## Drez

While the recipe doesn't call for it, is it better to rack down and stabalize after 3 mo or should I not even bother?


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## sly22guy

Don't need too. I talked to ed wort directly about this and he told me is drinking from 4 yr old batches with no issues. I've never added any to mine


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## WineyDoc

*First Apfelwein*

I just had my first taste of Ed Wort's Apfelwein. I pitched the yeast on January 3rd, 2011 and left it in the carboy until yesterday, when I bottled it into wine bottles. I was a good boy and gave it over 8 months of aging without tasting a drop.



OH MY GOD! I have 30 bottles of this stuff! I am a rich man indeed!


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## MikeBitting

*Using Unfiltered Cider*

I just finished fermenting 5 gallons of fresh unfiltered cider. I was wondering what other people's experience was with the final product. Mine was almost tasteless, with a slight warmth going down and an aftertaste of the fresh cider. Is this light taste normal? When I used apple juice it was much sweeter when I finished. Also, has anyone added any fruit, such as blackberries to the process. If so, what's the best way of doing this properly?


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## chevs15

So this stuff can go straight from a carboy to bottle? No racking or stabilizing needed, correct?


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## DSimpson

Started 5 gals from Colorado apple juice. Curious if any Colo folks have tried this with Talbotts cider? 

Hoping to start skeeter pee from the leftover yeast. Any thoughts/comments?


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## sly22guy

if your going to use the yeast for pee you will need to rack to a secondary after the sg has dropped below 1.00. if you let it run full course the alcohol will kill off most of the viable yeast. also let this stuff age! 6 months is good but a year is better, 2 year is outstanding!


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## DSimpson

Thanks for the reply sly22guy!

Yeast slurry didn't work out very well. The Montrachet Red/apple slurry started a wee krausen in the SP and died after two days.
Put a belt on the bucket, built a 1118 yeast and raspberry slurry and successfully got the SP going.

The apple cider is off to a good start. Reminded me a lot of the cider we sampled in the German farms while backpacking around Europe. It is resting in the carboy till July and then the celebration will begin!


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## OldYamaha

I have a 5 gallon batch, and I allowed mine to ferment to .994, Degassed, then added 5 camden tabs and 1 tablespoon of KMet to keep the fermentation from restarting and waited 6 days and backsweeten up to 1.004, and waited overnight to see if it would start to referment, and it has restarted. What can I do at this point? add more camden and Kmet, or just wait until it goes dry again and try to backsweeten again?
Harry


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## OldYamaha

OldYamaha said:


> I have a 5 gallon batch, and I allowed mine to ferment to .994, Degassed, then added 5 camden tabs and 1 tablespoon of KMet to keep the fermentation from restarting and waited 6 days and backsweeten up to 1.004, and waited overnight to see if it would start to referment, and it has restarted. What can I do at this point? add more camden and Kmet, or just wait until it goes dry again and try to backsweeten again?
> Harry


 Slow up here you guys, don't Eeveryone answer at once... maybe a hint?


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## g8keeper

camden tablets, and kmeta, are the same thing....if you are trying to prevent a refermentation, then what you needed to add, in addition to the kmeta, or camden tablets, is potassium sorbate....this is the inhibitor to yeast reproduction, used in conjunction with kmeta, to not necessarily kill the yeast, but apply a coating the the yeasts currentlty living in your batch, that prevents them from eating anymore sugar, and therefore prevents them from multiplying....


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## pjd

After 5 Camden tablets and onr TABLESPOON of k meta, I would dump it down the drain. You have approx 10 times more sulphite than was recommended. That has to be rank! You will never be able to save this one.


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## OldYamaha

g8keeper said:


> camden tablets, and kmeta, are the same thing....if you are trying to prevent a refermentation, then what you needed to add, in addition to the kmeta, or camden tablets, is potassium sorbate....this is the inhibitor to yeast reproduction, used in conjunction with kmeta, to not necessarily kill the yeast, but apply a coating the the yeasts currentlty living in your batch, that prevents them from eating anymore sugar, and therefore prevents them from multiplying....


 
Sorry, I meant 5 camden tabs, and 1 tablespoon of sorbate. That is why I was confused by the fermentation restarting.
I had sweetened back up to 1.004 from OG .994. after a week now it is back down to 1.002. I also found that it has again stabilized. Just tasted it and I may have added to much backsweetening. It is ok, but I won't do that on my next batch. It has been fermenting now for 2 weeks and I used confectioners sugar instead of corn sugar like this batch.


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## OldYamaha

OldYamaha said:


> Sorry, I meant 5 camden tabs, and 1 tablespoon of sorbate. That is why I was confused by the fermentation restarting.
> I had sweetened back up to 1.004 from OG .994. after a week now it is back down to 1.002. I also found that it has again stabilized. Just tasted it and I may have added to much backsweetening. It is ok, but I won't do that on my next batch. It has been fermenting now for 2 weeks and I used confectioners sugar instead of corn sugar like this batch.


 
Well after all the imput, it seems the fermentation stopped, and I just bottled the applewein, and it is good tasting, but a little too sweet. I'll not add so much concentrate in the next batch.

Thanks all, for the help.


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## samwisegamgeese

*Carboy?*



smurfe said:


> I had a request to post the recipe for Apfelwin which is a hard apple cider recipe. I have made this before and it is sort of hard to describe. It is a cross between a beer and a wine. It is pretty tasty. I will post the recipe I use here as well as a link to our sister site Homebrewtalk.com of the post for the recipe creator, EdWort to give him full credit for this tasty recipe. Here is Ed's recipe:
> 
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/
> 
> Award Winning Apfelwein Recipe (German Hard Cider) Apple Wine Recipe
> 
> Placed 1st in the Cider & Apple Wine category at the BJCP sanctioned Alamo Cerveza fest (out of 11 entries) and took 2nd place for Best of Show for the main category of Meads & Ciders (out of 50 entries).
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> 5 Gallons 100% Apple Juice (No preservatives or additives) I use Tree Top Apple Juice
> 
> 2 pounds of dextrose (corn sugar) in one pound bags
> 
> 1 five gram packet of Montrachet Wine Yeast
> 
> Equipment
> 
> 5 Gallon Carboy (I use a Better Bottle)
> Carboy Cap or Stopper with Airlock
> Funnel
> 
> First sanitize the carboy, airlock, funnel, stopper or carboy cap.
> Open one gallon bottle of apple juice and pour half of it into the carboy using the funnel.
> 
> Open one bag of Dextrose and carefully add it to the now half full bottle of apple juice. Shake well.
> 
> Repeat Steps 2 and 3, then go to step 5.
> 
> Pour in the mixture of Apple Juice and Dextrose from both bottles into the carboy.
> 
> Add all but 1 quart of remaining 3 gallons of apple juice to the carboy.
> 
> Open the packet of Montrachet Yeast and pour it into the neck of the funnel.
> 
> Use the remaining quart of juice to wash down any yeast that sticks. I am able to fit all but 3 ounces of apple juice into a 5 gallon Better Bottle. You may need to be patient to let the foam die down from all shaking and pouring.
> 
> Put your stopper or carboy cap on with an airlock and fill the airlock with cheap vodka. No bacteria will live in vodka and if you get suckback, you just boosted the abv.
> 
> There’s no need to worry about filling up a carboy so full when you use Montrachet wine yeast. There is no Kreuzen, just a thin layer of bubbles I'm able to fit all but 4 oz. of my five gallons in the bottle. Ferment at room temperature.
> 
> It will become cloudy in a couple of days and remain so for a few weeks. In the 4th week, the yeast will begin to drop out and it will become clear. After at least 4 weeks, you can keg or bottle, but it is ok to leave it in the carboy for another month or so. Racking to a secondary is not necessary. It ferments out very dry (less than 0.999, see here)
> 
> Apfelwein really improves with age, so if you can please let it sit in a carboy for up to 3 months before bottling or kegging, then let it sit even longer. Here's what some folks think.
> 
> If you want to bottle and carbonate, ¾ cup of corn sugar will work fine. Use as you would carbonate a batch of beer.
> 
> Remember to reserve judgment till after 3 glasses. It grows on you.
> 
> DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND START ANOTHER BATCH 2 WEEKS AFTER YOU START THIS ONE.
> YOU WILL THANK ME LATER!
> 
> 
> GENERAL QUESTIONS
> compiled by Dammed Squirrels from the first 37 pages of this thread. Thanks DS!
> 
> How does it taste?
> It ferments quite dry. Some people have tried different yeasts in order to achieve a sweeter taste. It may take you a few glasses to get a feel for the flavor. It is very reminiscent of a sort of apfelwein produced locally in Germany. There really is no comparable product in the United States. It's drier and less sweet than commercial hard ciders. It gets better with age and at 6+ months, the apple flavor really comes out.
> 
> How do you sweeten it?
> Many folks back sweeten it with Wine Conditioner. Wine Conditioner is a blend of sucrose and sorbic acid. The addition of 2-4 oz. per gallon adds sweetness and prevents renewed fermentation. It can be purchased as any LHBS that caters to wine makers. Others will use Splenda or lactose (other non-fermentable sugars). Germans who prefer it sweet (or Suß as they say) will add a splash of Sprite or 7up to a glass. This is the easiest method as you don't have to make a whole "sweet" batch that way.
> 
> What is the difference between Apfelwein and hard cider?
> EdWort says, “Most ciders are a bit sweeter. Ciders and Apfelwein are about 6% abv, but I like the little boost I give it with 2 pounds of Dextrose. It adds no body or flavor and still tastes like Possmann's Apfelwein, only it will kick your butt much quicker.”
> 
> Is this like Apfelmost / Apfel Korn?
> No. Apfel Korn is a german liqeur made from wheat spirits. Apfelmost is spontaneously fermented with fresh-pressed apples or apple juice. It is probably similar, but the results may vary as a result of the spontaneous fermentation. Either way, Apfelmost is most certainly has a lower alcohol content since the initial gravity is not increased by the use of concentrate or corn sugar.
> 
> What’s the difference between apple juice and cider?
> Cider is made by pressing apples. Juice is then filtered to remove all of the stuff that makes it cloudy.
> 
> Can I use apple cider instead?
> Sure! You can use whatever you want. However, there is not enough information in this thread to give you any better details as to how it will turn out. I recommend starting a new thread or ask more experienced cider-makers.
> 
> What kind of Apple Juice should I use?
> Ideally, you want to use 100% natural apple juice with no preservatives. The only acceptable preservative is ascorbic acid, which is a source of vitamin C and does not affect fermentation. Pasteurized juice is preferred, since it will have less bacteria.
> 
> How much will this recipe cost me?
> 5 gallons of Apfelwein can be made for between 20 and 25 dollars.
> 
> What else can you do with this recipe?
> EdWort says, "this makes a great Grog in the winter time. Take a quart in a sauce pan, add some rum, turbinado sugar, and float a cinnamon stick in it and simmer for a while. Serve hot in mugs. It'll warm you right up."



Is a carboy the same as a demi-john in UK?


----------



## samwisegamgeese

*Cloudy apple juice*



smurfe said:


> I had a request to post the recipe for Apfelwin which is a hard apple cider recipe. I have made this before and it is sort of hard to describe. It is a cross between a beer and a wine. It is pretty tasty. I will post the recipe I use here as well as a link to our sister site Homebrewtalk.com of the post for the recipe creator, EdWort to give him full credit for this tasty recipe. Here is Ed's recipe:
> 
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/
> 
> Award Winning Apfelwein Recipe (German Hard Cider) Apple Wine Recipe
> 
> Placed 1st in the Cider & Apple Wine category at the BJCP sanctioned Alamo Cerveza fest (out of 11 entries) and took 2nd place for Best of Show for the main category of Meads & Ciders (out of 50 entries).
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> 5 Gallons 100% Apple Juice (No preservatives or additives) I use Tree Top Apple Juice
> 
> 2 pounds of dextrose (corn sugar) in one pound bags
> 
> 1 five gram packet of Montrachet Wine Yeast
> 
> Equipment
> 
> 5 Gallon Carboy (I use a Better Bottle)
> Carboy Cap or Stopper with Airlock
> Funnel
> 
> First sanitize the carboy, airlock, funnel, stopper or carboy cap.
> Open one gallon bottle of apple juice and pour half of it into the carboy using the funnel.
> 
> Open one bag of Dextrose and carefully add it to the now half full bottle of apple juice. Shake well.
> 
> Repeat Steps 2 and 3, then go to step 5.
> 
> Pour in the mixture of Apple Juice and Dextrose from both bottles into the carboy.
> 
> Add all but 1 quart of remaining 3 gallons of apple juice to the carboy.
> 
> Open the packet of Montrachet Yeast and pour it into the neck of the funnel.
> 
> Use the remaining quart of juice to wash down any yeast that sticks. I am able to fit all but 3 ounces of apple juice into a 5 gallon Better Bottle. You may need to be patient to let the foam die down from all shaking and pouring.
> 
> Put your stopper or carboy cap on with an airlock and fill the airlock with cheap vodka. No bacteria will live in vodka and if you get suckback, you just boosted the abv.
> 
> There’s no need to worry about filling up a carboy so full when you use Montrachet wine yeast. There is no Kreuzen, just a thin layer of bubbles I'm able to fit all but 4 oz. of my five gallons in the bottle. Ferment at room temperature.
> 
> It will become cloudy in a couple of days and remain so for a few weeks. In the 4th week, the yeast will begin to drop out and it will become clear. After at least 4 weeks, you can keg or bottle, but it is ok to leave it in the carboy for another month or so. Racking to a secondary is not necessary. It ferments out very dry (less than 0.999, see here)
> 
> Apfelwein really improves with age, so if you can please let it sit in a carboy for up to 3 months before bottling or kegging, then let it sit even longer. Here's what some folks think.
> 
> If you want to bottle and carbonate, ¾ cup of corn sugar will work fine. Use as you would carbonate a batch of beer.
> 
> Remember to reserve judgment till after 3 glasses. It grows on you.
> 
> DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND START ANOTHER BATCH 2 WEEKS AFTER YOU START THIS ONE.
> YOU WILL THANK ME LATER!
> 
> 
> GENERAL QUESTIONS
> compiled by Dammed Squirrels from the first 37 pages of this thread. Thanks DS!
> 
> How does it taste?
> It ferments quite dry. Some people have tried different yeasts in order to achieve a sweeter taste. It may take you a few glasses to get a feel for the flavor. It is very reminiscent of a sort of apfelwein produced locally in Germany. There really is no comparable product in the United States. It's drier and less sweet than commercial hard ciders. It gets better with age and at 6+ months, the apple flavor really comes out.
> 
> How do you sweeten it?
> Many folks back sweeten it with Wine Conditioner. Wine Conditioner is a blend of sucrose and sorbic acid. The addition of 2-4 oz. per gallon adds sweetness and prevents renewed fermentation. It can be purchased as any LHBS that caters to wine makers. Others will use Splenda or lactose (other non-fermentable sugars). Germans who prefer it sweet (or Suß as they say) will add a splash of Sprite or 7up to a glass. This is the easiest method as you don't have to make a whole "sweet" batch that way.
> 
> What is the difference between Apfelwein and hard cider?
> EdWort says, “Most ciders are a bit sweeter. Ciders and Apfelwein are about 6% abv, but I like the little boost I give it with 2 pounds of Dextrose. It adds no body or flavor and still tastes like Possmann's Apfelwein, only it will kick your butt much quicker.”
> 
> Is this like Apfelmost / Apfel Korn?
> No. Apfel Korn is a german liqeur made from wheat spirits. Apfelmost is spontaneously fermented with fresh-pressed apples or apple juice. It is probably similar, but the results may vary as a result of the spontaneous fermentation. Either way, Apfelmost is most certainly has a lower alcohol content since the initial gravity is not increased by the use of concentrate or corn sugar.
> 
> What’s the difference between apple juice and cider?
> Cider is made by pressing apples. Juice is then filtered to remove all of the stuff that makes it cloudy.
> 
> Can I use apple cider instead?
> Sure! You can use whatever you want. However, there is not enough information in this thread to give you any better details as to how it will turn out. I recommend starting a new thread or ask more experienced cider-makers.
> 
> What kind of Apple Juice should I use?
> Ideally, you want to use 100% natural apple juice with no preservatives. The only acceptable preservative is ascorbic acid, which is a source of vitamin C and does not affect fermentation. Pasteurized juice is preferred, since it will have less bacteria.
> 
> How much will this recipe cost me?
> 5 gallons of Apfelwein can be made for between 20 and 25 dollars.
> 
> What else can you do with this recipe?
> EdWort says, "this makes a great Grog in the winter time. Take a quart in a sauce pan, add some rum, turbinado sugar, and float a cinnamon stick in it and simmer for a while. Serve hot in mugs. It'll warm you right up."



I used "cloudy" apple juice to make "Apple Wine"...it is fermenting fine but will it clear?


----------



## TJsBasement

samwisegamgeese said:


> Is a carboy the same as a demi-john in UK?



It is in the US but you guys have different laws lol
Not sure if I'm right but when I think demijohn I see big hand blown and wicker ,for carboy I see machined glass jug.


----------



## samwisegamgeese

TJsBasement said:


> It is in the US but you guys have different laws lol
> Not sure if I'm right but when I think demijohn I see big hand blown and wicker ,for carboy I see machined glass jug.



OK so for carboy read demi - john. You Americans stealing and changing the Queens English. How does the world understand you!


----------



## SarahRides

In the US a demi-john usually holds 15 gallons (not sure of the Liters), is made of thinner glass than a carboy. A carboy around here is much smaller, 23L, 18L or 11L. (or in the US 6, 5 or 3 gallons). I guess the size could be a good indicator!


----------



## samwisegamgeese

Oh ok our demijohns are only 1 gallon (4.5 litres).....everything is smaller in Blighty!


----------



## samwisegamgeese

*"Cloudy" Apple Juice*



samwisegamgeese said:


> I used "cloudy" apple juice to make "Apple Wine"...it is fermenting fine but will it clear?



And here it is?!


----------



## samwisegamgeese

Guys any thoughts about clearing?


----------



## SarahRides

I had used "Simply Apple" which is a cloudy apple juice when I made mine last Fall, it is still somewhat cloudy. I've used Sparkalloid which cleared in a little, and a few weeks ago I added Pectic enzyme, which also cleared it a little as well. I have the feeling it won't be completely cleared when I go to bottle it this summer, and I'm ok with that!


----------



## samwisegamgeese

SarahRides said:


> I had used "Simply Apple" which is a cloudy apple juice when I made mine last Fall, it is still somewhat cloudy. I've used Sparkalloid which cleared in a little, and a few weeks ago I added Pectic enzyme, which also cleared it a little as well. I have the feeling it won't be completely cleared when I go to bottle it this summer, and I'm ok with that!



So you are waiting 9 months to bottle? Could you inform me how often you would rack in that time period?


----------



## samwisegamgeese

samwisegamgeese said:


> So you are waiting 9 months to bottle? Could you inform me how often you would rack in that time period?



I would like answer to above.....just racked off and SG makes it 16.8% oooh its is sweet and then jumps on your chest!!! Love it!


----------



## SarahRides

Sorry! I didn't see the reply. I rack it about once a month or so, they is usually a small film of sediment on it at that time. Mine tastes like apple pie! I may have overdone it a little on the cinnamon sticks, but my hubby and I love it! 

I think I am actually going to keg this one for the fall so that it is carbonated. It definitely is strong, but you can't even tell! It goes down really smoothly. It could be dangerous!


----------



## samwisegamgeese

SarahRides said:


> Sorry! I didn't see the reply. I rack it about once a month or so, they is usually a small film of sediment on it at that time. Mine tastes like apple pie! I may have overdone it a little on the cinnamon sticks, but my hubby and I love it!
> 
> I think I am actually going to keg this one for the fall so that it is carbonated. It definitely is strong, but you can't even tell! It goes down really smoothly. It could be dangerous!



 Ooooh with Cinnamon Sticks .........sounds lovely...thanks for reply.


----------



## samwisegamgeese

This tastes sooooooo goood I am not sure it will last till it can be bottled


----------



## SarahRides

Resist the temptation, it ages really really well!


----------



## samwisegamgeese

Thank you, I think I will move it away from sight......this may help with my temptation!


----------



## Bartman

I'm planning on doing this Apfelwein in a couple weeks. I have a EC-1118 yeast packet on hand - any reason I can't use that instead of Montrachet as the recipe calls for? I have never used Montrachet, and don't know what the relative advantages/disadvantages are. Thanks for the input.


----------



## OldYamaha

Bartman said:


> I'm planning on doing this Apfelwein in a couple weeks. I have a EC-1118 yeast packet on hand - any reason I can't use that instead of Montrachet as the recipe calls for? I have never used Montrachet, and don't know what the relative advantages/disadvantages are. Thanks for the input.


I have used both Lavlin D47, and EC1118. The D47 was with confectioners sugar, and was disappointed in the flavor, so I used Sweet Merlot as a blend that turned out so so, or ok. (waste not...) and 3 versions with EC1118. Both had very small heads, and went quite dry(.996-.994) 
My latest batch I started in March, and is now very clear and at .996. I kind of forgot that it was there, so I'll try to carbonate some of that and 1/2 batch of my latest skeeter pee(also with EC1118)
Harry


----------



## Bartman

I have started my Apfelwein, but only a 1 gal batch to see how we like it. I used the EC 1118 I had on hand, but added about 2/3 cup sugar instead of the 2 pounds the recipe calls for (for 5 gallons). My S.G. was 1.060, so I expect the finished ABV to be around 9%.


----------



## southlake333

Bartman said:


> I have started my Apfelwein, but only a 1 gal batch to see how we like it. I used the EC 1118 I had on hand, but added about 2/3 cup sugar instead of the 2 pounds the recipe calls for (for 5 gallons). My S.G. was 1.060, so I expect the finished ABV to be around 9%.



Did you get a chance to try my apple cider at the meeting last week? It was a similar recipe with a starting SG of 1.062 that I fermented dry and backsweetened to 1.013. Next time I'll raise the ABV and try a sweetness of about 1.010 but its amazing as is.


----------



## oldwhiskers

OldYamaha said:


> The D47 was with confectioners sugar, and was disappointed in the flavor, so I used Sweet Merlot as a blend that turned out so so, or ok.



For reference, I think the confectioners sugar has corn starch in it and is not recommended for use in wine.


----------



## oldwhiskers

southlake333 said:


> Did you get a chance to try my apple cider at the meeting last week? It was a similar recipe with a starting SG of 1.062 that I fermented dry and backsweetened to 1.013. Next time I'll raise the ABV and try a sweetness of about 1.010 but its amazing as is.



I guess I have been making a version of this as apple wine. This recipe got me started with the apple juice wine which I like pretty good.


----------



## Bartman

southlake333 said:


> Did you get a chance to try my apple cider at the meeting last week? It was a similar recipe with a starting SG of 1.062 that I fermented dry and backsweetened to 1.013. Next time I'll raise the ABV and try a sweetness of about 1.010 but its amazing as is.


No, I didn't. I arrived late, as we had been out of town and only got home around the time of the meeting's start. I tried a bunch of different whites, but don't believe it I tried any apple wine.

My kids are hoping what I am making will end up sweet with a low alcohol level so they can have some in the winter. I plan on testing it warmed, outside by the firepit in the fall (maybe three months or so from now). It seems to be fermenting fairly normally - I have stirred it each day to keep the cinnamon, ground cloves and sugar mixed up into the juice. If it turns out good, I will have found a really cheap 'wine' - only $3.63/gallon for the juice (plus corks and yeast, another ~$1.50)! If it yields 5 full bottles from the 1 gal I started with, I will have invested just over $1 per bottle total.


----------



## kzacherl2000

*Not fermenting*



nursejohn said:


> I just started a batch of this 2 days ago and it is fermenting like crazy. It has the whole room smelling good. Can't wait to try it. I'll try to keep everyone updated on it. Thanks Smurfe for sharing the recipe, John.


 

Hello, I started this recipe three days ago, and nothing. Not even a bubble. Should I be concerned at this point? Should I be doing anything to move the process along?


----------



## Bartman

I wouldn't sweat it. My Apfelwein didn't really take off for a few days and never got very active. It did definitely ferment though, over a week to 10 days' time. What yeast did you use?


----------



## kzacherl2000

Bart, I used the Montrachet wine yeast indicated in the recipe. Still no bubbling as of today. Thoughts? Kim


----------



## kzacherl2000

*Apfelwein stuck*

Hello, It's been five days, and my apfelwein has not started fermenting. I am just wondering if I should add another yeast, or what should I do at this point? Starting SG was 1.074 and it is the same today. Not a bubble. I used the Montrachet Yeast as suggested in the recipe. If anyone can please suggest something to save it, I would greatly appreciate it. Kim


----------



## Bartman

Yes, if the S.G. hasn't changed in five days, then I would throw in another yeast. I have never used Montrachet yeast (like I said in my original post a couple months ago), and I used EC 1118 which can apparently cause a rusty iron pipe to start fermenting! Seriously, if it can be fermented, EC 1118 will do it - which leads me to the only other possibility I can think of: if it's not the yeast (dead or old or weak, etc). that you used, dis the apple juice you started with have any preservatives in it that would inhibit yeast fermenting? Anything other than Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) can lead to unpredictable results on fermentation - sometimes it will ferment, sometimes it won't.


----------



## kzacherl2000

Pasteurized, no sugar added is all I see on the label. I will buy the EC1118 and try it. I followed the original recipe, but will note this for next time. Will see how it is in a few days, and post results. Thanks, Kim


----------



## kzacherl2000

*Going to dump it*

Added EC 1118 on Friday, 9/24. I got NOTHIN' First batch of anything that I had to dump. Not a good feeling. Going to get rid of it tomorrow.


----------



## Bartman

I bottled my Apfelwein last night, 1 gal of apple juice yielded 4.5 bottles. I probably could have gotten close to a full 5 bottles if I had racked it once more before bottling, but decided I could allow that last cloudy cup or so go down the drain. I plan on testing a bottle without sweetening, one with some sugar and one warmed like a mulled wine. Any other suggestions?


----------



## OldYamaha

Quote:
Originally Posted by *OldYamaha* 

 
_The D47 was with confectioners sugar, and was disappointed in the flavor, so I used Sweet Merlot as a blend that turned out so so, or ok._

For reference, I think the confectioners sugar has corn starch in it and is not recommended for use in wine. 
__________________
John

Thanks John. After the taste it had, I can believe that, and it was a lesson learned. Who woulda thunk it, ask 1st about confectioners sugar. However!!!! the next batch was much better, but another lesson learned was that adding apple "flavoring" isn't nearly as good as frozen concentrate and pasteurizing, which I am doing with this batch, plus adding some cinnamon stick to some of it.
Harry


----------



## RussR

*Not clearing?*

I started my batch of Apfelwein on 9/2/12, exactly following the directions, including using the recommended type of apple juice. It is now 2 months later, and it hasn't cleared yet. In fact, it isn't clear at all.

Should I just wait some more, or add a fining agent? if the latter, any recommendations on which one for this application?


----------



## GTS

*Great Stuff!*

I made this wine last month and decided to carbonate it, which I had never done before. After thorough internet research and a discussion with my LHBS guys, I decided to do it just like you would a beer. I added the priming sugar to my bottling bucket and racked the wine into it for bottling. I tested at 2 weeks and all was well with all the tiny bubbles it is supposed to have. At 4 weeks it is even better! I am still having trouble with that first sip, as it looks just like a good beer, and I suppose my brain keeps telling me that is the flavor to expect.
FWIW, I made it exactly per the recipe, and fermentation, clearing, etc. was spot on the directions.


----------



## Swilley

How do yall think it will be if i use cote des blanc yeast


----------



## Bartman

Don't know about cote des blanc yeast - never used it, but I would expect it will be fine, since apples aren't classified by their flavor profiles the way grapes are (for fermenting purposes anyway).

I opened a bottle of my Apfelwein a couple nights ago, but it just isn't as good as a dry wine, even when chilled. The apple flavor came through, but it just had too much sour taste to it. Took the remaining 2/3 bottle, heated it on the stove with about 1/2 cup sugar, some ground cinnamon, allspice and cloves. The wife and I really enjoyed it! Was really good going down on a night when it just started getting chilly here in Dallas.


----------



## Pumpkinman

"I used EC 1118 which can apparently cause a rusty iron pipe to start fermenting!"
LMAO!


----------



## botigol

I started my batch on 9/1 using unfiltered juice and Cotes des Blancs yeast. The initial fementation went fine, except that I had trouble measuring the SG. There was so much gas that my hydrometer would drop and then immediately start rising. I racked it after a week and figured that I would just leave it alone. Now, three months later, I still have a small amount of tiny bubbles rising in the carboy. The ambient and wine temperatures have been in the mid-60s for the past ten weeks. I am still very new at this, but 90 days seems like a long time for fermentation to still be in process. I could take another reading, but since I don't have a valid number from before I don't know how much value it would bring. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!


----------



## RegionRat

botigol said:


> I started my batch on 9/1 using unfiltered juice and Cotes des Blancs yeast. The initial fementation went fine, except that I had trouble measuring the SG. There was so much gas that my hydrometer would drop and then immediately start rising. I racked it after a week and figured that I would just leave it alone. Now, three months later, I still have a small amount of tiny bubbles rising in the carboy. The ambient and wine temperatures have been in the mid-60s for the past ten weeks. I am still very new at this, but 90 days seems like a long time for fermentation to still be in process. I could take another reading, but since I don't have a valid number from before I don't know how much value it would bring. Any thoughts on this?
> 
> Thanks!



I would think if you were to degas the sample before you try to take a hydrometer reading it might help. I wonder if you just put the sample in an empty wine bottle and shuck it till it was gas free that might work.(just thinking out loud). Any thoughts?

RR


----------



## botigol

Seems like a reasonable and useful idea to me. I will have to keep this in mind for next time. Thanks RR!


----------



## Neeshac

So I am thinking of making a 5 gallon batch, but I need to know if I can store it in the original plastic bottles it came in and keep in the fridge. I do not plan for this stuff to be around long. I am going to back sweeten and drink it up with friends.


----------



## OldYamaha

I have kept 2 batches like that, but I pasteurized them, and then added more frozen juice to back sweeten. Kept them in a steel locker in the basement, then chilled as needed, but the basement in Iowa stays around 68 or so all summer.
I sure wouldn't want to do it though if you were going to carbonate them.

OldYamaha


----------



## firejohn03

What is the final ABV when using this recipe? I saw someone in the thread talk about cinnamon addition earlier. Would like to try this and bottle in 1.5 L bottles. Would I overpower by dropping in a cinnamon stick in each bottle at bottling?


----------



## Tess

Iv wanted to try this. Im not sure I want a wine that taste like a beer. lol


----------



## RegionRat

firejohn03 said:


> What is the final ABV when using this recipe? I saw someone in the thread talk about cinnamon addition earlier. Would like to try this and bottle in 1.5 L bottles. Would I overpower by dropping in a cinnamon stick in each bottle at bottling?




I make this all the time. I think I am on batch 6 for the year. The ABV turns out around 8%.



Tess said:


> Iv wanted to try this. Im not sure I want a wine that taste like a beer. lol



Really doesnt taste like beer. Tastes very good. Drinkable in 60days. Just gets better the longer it sits. 

RR


----------



## Tess

RegionRat said:


> I make this all the time. I think I am on batch 6 for the year. The ABV turns out around 8%.
> 
> 
> 
> Really doesnt taste like beer. Tastes very good. Drinkable in 60days. Just gets better the longer it sits.
> 
> RR



OK you convinced me. I will try it for sure. I cant remember where I read it taste like a cross between apple wine and beer.


----------



## cimbaliw

I've made three batches of this stuff and am about to make another. I am thinking of adding acid blend to increase tartness but do not have an acid testing kit. I really don't want to get one right now. Any suggestions on how much acid blend to add? I v'e read other fruit juice recipes that call for 2-3tsp, maybe that would be a good start?

BC


----------



## MilesDavis

I made a small batch of this using Hansen's Trifecta juice, and after just over three weeks, it's already nearly completely clear. If I like it, there's gonna be a big batch coming up.


----------



## jpsmithny

Im going to try this soon! It sounds delicious.


----------



## Tess

Well Im getting everything Im going to need to make this this weekend but in 6 gal not 5. Im thinking of putting brown sugar in the primary instead of white or dextrose to bump the ABV and adding one cinnamon stick to secondary. I will ferment in bucket not a carboy. Iv seen this stuff go crazy in some youtube videos  I will Let you guys know how its go's


----------



## RegionRat

I always use brown sugar or the Mexican sugar, Piloncillo. I shoot for ~1.065, 2# sugar to 5 gal juice. I always use a bucket for primary and rack when sg drops below 1.010 so. I have had a few batches go nuts with foam. I think the ferment was a little too warm. A 1/4 tsp of apple extract per gallon really makes the apple flavor pop. I have also added a bag of quad berry to primary for a little more depth of flavor.

RR


----------



## ou8amaus

Tess said:


> ... Im thinking of putting brown sugar in the primary instead of white or dextrose to bump the ABV and adding one cinnamon stick to secondary. I will ferment in bucket not a carboy. Iv seen this stuff go crazy in some youtube videos



Funny you should mention that, I just started my first batch last week using brown sugar. I put the juice, brown sugar, and K1-V1116 directly into a carboy per the instructions. It took off great and the airlock is still bubbling away madly... but no foam at all!


----------



## Tess

Well I didnt get started like I wanted but Im starting it tomorrow. Cant wait to see how it comes out


----------



## Tess

RegionRat said:


> I always use brown sugar or the Mexican sugar, Piloncillo. I shoot for ~1.065, 2# sugar to 5 gal juice. I always use a bucket for primary and rack when sg drops below 1.010 so. I have had a few batches go nuts with foam. I think the ferment was a little too warm. A 1/4 tsp of apple extract per gallon really makes the apple flavor pop. I have also added a bag of quad berry to primary for a little more depth of flavor.
> 
> RR



Thanks for the Apple extract link.


----------



## RegionRat

cimbaliw said:


> I've made three batches of this stuff and am about to make another. I am thinking of adding acid blend to increase tartness but do not have an acid testing kit. I really don't want to get one right now. Any suggestions on how much acid blend to add? I v'e read other fruit juice recipes that call for 2-3tsp, maybe that would be a good start?
> 
> BC




Sorry I missed this post till now. I have a lot of this stuff under my belt. Here is what I do to finish it. 

The apple juice I use is just the local supermarket brand. Nothing special just no preservatives listed. I add brown sugar to 1.065, 2# per 6 gal. The juice right out of the jug has ph around 3.75. I ferment it dry and age it a month. Then I get the ph down to around 3.35. For a 6 gal batch that is almost always 3 tbls tartaric acid. I add 1# suger to get the sg up 10 1.005 and add 1 tbls _Olive Nation Apple Extract_.

That's it. Enjoy.

RR


----------



## Tess

for reason beyond my control Im just finally getting mine started today. In primary bucket. I ordered the apple extract thanks RR


----------



## Tess

RegionRat said:


> I always use brown sugar or the Mexican sugar, Piloncillo. I shoot for ~1.065, 2# sugar to 5 gal juice. I always use a bucket for primary and rack when sg drops below 1.010 so. I have had a few batches go nuts with foam. I think the ferment was a little too warm. A 1/4 tsp of apple extract per gallon really makes the apple flavor pop. I have also added a bag of quad berry to primary for a little more depth of flavor.
> 
> RR



Sense you used the quadberry I assume you added PE?


----------



## RegionRat

Tess said:


> Sense you used the quadberry I assume you added PE?



Yes I do add PE when I put in frozen fruit. Other then that you really dont need it. My next batch I am gonna toss in a couple pounds of frozen raspberries.

RR


----------



## cimbaliw

I pitched somewhere between 5 and 6 gallons yesterday as the maiden must in my new Brute 10 gal primary. I bought juice from Aldi's. I got 12-64 0z bottles and 8# sugar for $20.06. I added 2T tannin, some POM/blueberry and POM/cherry I had lying around about to expire. I Also inverted 5c sugar to raise the SG to 1.080. While inverting, I took an uneducated guess and tossed in 1/4c. Citric acid. The pH is now ~3.4 via test strip. Topped it off with a sachet of Montrachet yeast and am starting to see activity at the 16 hour mark. The tannins really darkened the must like a fine Northern Michigan trout stream.


----------



## Tess

I just started 6 gal. This afternoon. Added 4 lbs of brown sugar and my initial SG is 1.080. Does that sound right?


----------



## Tess

I guess this will be my drop your panties hard cider


----------



## cimbaliw

That's funny Tess, I was just thinking about that silly "liquid panty remover" Captain Morgan(?) campaign earlier today. Maybe I'm wrong but I like to taste the alcohol in my drinks. Curious to know how the brown sugar works out. The darker tannin color of the batch I've got going sure makes me think of caramel apples.

BC


----------



## Tess

I already have the label for this. Stole the idea from someone else on here. lol Its almost done


----------



## Tess

Hey I was thinking of dropping a Cinnamon stick in the secondary for a couple of weeks. What go ya think? I dont want it to overwhelm


----------



## cimbaliw

What do I think? I think I'm shopping at the wrong grocery store! Seems like those that have added cinnamon sticks say to do so as you have suggested. My love for apple is ginger, vanilla and fresh lemon juice which gives a wonderful dry finish. The best thing about Apfelwein is that it's inexpensive to make with a relative neutral flavor. It's a wonderful proving ground for tweaks.


----------



## Tess

cimbaliw said:


> What do I think? I think I'm shopping at the wrong grocery store! Seems like those that have added cinnamon sticks say to do so as you have suggested. My love for apple is ginger, vanilla and fresh lemon juice which gives a wonderful dry finish. The best thing about Apfelwein is that it's inexpensive to make with a relative neutral flavor. It's a wonderful proving ground for tweaks.



Thats an idea. I love Ginger and lemon!! I wish I could taste what your saying lol


----------



## Tess

Did you add the fresh grated ginger ad lemon zest in the secondary?


----------



## LoneStarLori

Nice label Tess. lol

I started a different version of something like this on Tuesday. It's the basic part of one of the apple wine and cider recipes in the book that came from Midwest supplies. I used Motts juice and 8lbs of granny smith apples. I chopped the apples finely and squeezed what I could by hand and put it in a strainer bag, then into the fermenter. I used a brownish sugar from Florida Crystals I had never seen before called Demeara. It tasted like caramel when I made it into syrup. NUMMY! Next day I pitched Champagne yeast. 
I left town for a few days and got back today to a .1001 reading. (Starting SG 1.09) It tastes pretty dry but nice. I added 2 cinnamon sticks and will leave them there a few days and see what happens. I think i'm only going to have about 2 gals, but that should be enough to see if we like it.


----------



## cimbaliw

Tess said:


> Did you add the fresh grated ginger ad lemon zest in the secondary?



Yes, several months in. I made a ginger extract and started a couple of Tablespoons at a time. I like ginger so 8T is now a start for 5-6 gallons. The first lemon experiment involved feeling no pain, seeing a lemon on the counter, cutting it in half, crushing it by hand into a pyrex cup and pouring it into the carboy through a small sieve. The result was a fantastic dry finish on the pallate. 

On another note, you can go from too dry to too sweet in a hurry with apple. Probably because the juice I start with is pretty sweet. 1.005 tastes good initially but in a couple of weeks, things may be different. Vanilla also adds to the sensation of sweetness.


----------



## Tess

Well I pitched the yeast yesterday and its doing nothing as of right now. Its pretty cool on my basement. About 68. Im not sure about the brew belt with apple. What do you think?


----------



## RegionRat

Tess said:


> Well I pitched the yeast yesterday and its doing nothing as of right now. Its pretty cool on my basement. About 68. Im not sure about the brew belt with apple. What do you think?



I would not worry about it. I am in no way an expert on yeast and what temp they like. I just feel this time of year the ambient temps of where we live are just awesome for fermentation. The natural ups and downs of temps work their magic. ..... walk away and let it do it's thing and watch the sg. Transfer around 1.010. 

RR


----------



## Tess

RegionRat said:


> I would not worry about it. I am in no way an expert on yeast and what temp they like. I just feel this time of year the ambient temps of where we live are just awesome for fermentation. The natural ups and downs of temps work their magic. ..... walk away and let it do it's thing and watch the sg. Transfer around 1.010.
> 
> RR



Thanks thats basically what Im doing. I did stir it up a bit today to try to give it some help. I will let you know


----------



## MilesDavis

Drinking some that I started about 5 weeks ago. It's a little young-tasting, but still quite nice. 
So I went ahead and started another batch.


----------



## Tess

Its going good now! Do you back sweeten or prefer it dry?


----------



## RegionRat

I think you are just going to have to taste it when it has aged a month and do a little experimenting. Stabilize and sorbate it then draw out a pint or so and add simple syrup, ( I invert mine) a little at a time until you have the taste you are looking for. Then check sg. If have a finishing hydrometer, (.980-1.020 range) that helps. Then do the math and add sugar to get the the sweetness of the sg reading.

If the ph is low enough I dont think it needs to be sweetened. I like mine very tart so I put in ~3 tbls tartaric acid. I go by taste. Start with 2tbls and at 1tsp at a time till I get the tartness I like.

Did you order extract?

Watch this dude. He talks about sweetening and adding home made extracts.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDP1ubIci8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDP1ubIci8[/ame]


**Edit: This is for 6 gallon batch**
RR


----------



## MilesDavis

Tess said:


> Its going good now! Do you back sweeten or prefer it dry?




I put one level teaspoon of cane sugar into about 12oz of apfelwein. If it were aged longer, I think it would be just fine completely dry. In the future, I may follow RR's lead and experiment with adding some tartness.


----------



## Tess

firejohn03 said:


> What is the final ABV when using this recipe? I saw someone in the thread talk about cinnamon addition earlier. Would like to try this and bottle in 1.5 L bottles. Would I overpower by dropping in a cinnamon stick in each bottle at bottling?



I hope you did not do this. YES one cinnamon stick dropped in every bottle will wayyyyy over power it and longer its in there the worse it will be. I was going to through about 2 sticks in my 6 gal secondary and will only leave it in there for a week or two. I'll have to taste it


----------



## firejohn03

Tess said:


> I hope you did not do this. YES one cinnamon stick dropped in every bottle will wayyyyy over power it and longer its in there the worse it will be. I was going to through about 2 sticks in my 6 gal secondary and will only leave it in there for a week or two. I'll have to taste it



Tess , I decided to go without the cinnamon all together. Thanks for the advice. Tasted at racking and this is going to be a delightful drink, standing alone. Let me know how the cinnamon addition comes out.


----------



## Tess

I just racked mine to the carboy. Going to stabilize and back sweeten add the apple extract not sure Im going to do the cinnamon yet ether lol


----------



## cimbaliw

I racked mine to secondary yesterday. Between the additional acid and the CO2, it sure was tart. I decided a pound of golden raisins was worth a try. Previous batches, when dry, tasted a good deal like Pinot Grigio. I'm curious to see what the raisins bring to the table.


----------



## RegionRat

Tess said:


> I just racked mine to the carboy. Going to stabilize and back sweeten add the apple extract not sure Im going to do the cinnamon yet ether lol



Just thought I would mention I almost always use Sparkaloid to help it clear. It should clear on its own though.

What kind of extract did you end up getting?

RR


----------



## RegionRat

cimbaliw said:


> I racked mine to secondary yesterday. Between the additional acid and the CO2, it sure was tart. I decided a pound of golden raisins was worth a try. Previous batches, when dry, tasted a good deal like Pinot Grigio. I'm curious to see what the raisins bring to the table.



How much acid did you add? Like I said earlier I like the tartness so I add quite a bit. 

Funny you should sate it reminds you of Pino Griz. A friend of mine and his wife often ask me for another bottle of Pino Griz, that's what they jokingly call my apple wine, lol.

RR


----------



## Tess

I went to the link you gave me and order that one. I added 1/4 tsp per gal. How much acid blend do you add to six gals. I was going to use Sparkloid but not until I fully degas tomorrow. Did you back sweeten? With what and how much


----------



## RegionRat

I dont think it needs to be sweetened. That's just me. I have sweetened batches in the past. I use invert sugar to back sweeten. (1c sugar, 1/2 water, 1tps _Realemon_. Bring to a boil then simmer for 15 min). I draw a couple cups of cider and add the invert sugar till I like the taste. Then I take an sg reading and figure the amount of sugar to add to the six gallons. I think the last one I sweetened was around 1.002

I like mine very tart so I put in ~3 tbls tartaric acid, I am sure you could use acid blend instead. Go by taste. Start with 2tbls and taste, then add 1tsp at a time till you get the tartness you like. 

Keep us posted on your progress.

Just a side note.... I like to make this stuff and drink it ice cold by the pint. I think my next batch is gonna be in the 5% ABV range. 

RR


----------



## Tess

I started at 1.090 so its gonna be strong. I think I will just top it off with some apple juice degas it tomorrow and taste it to see what I want to do next thanks for all the help and suggestions


----------



## Tess

I tasted this dry and this straight up!! taste like beer  
Pretty good beer but beer. My husband would love it but not what I was going for. 
It took a lot of doctoring for my taste. I added everything. I used half the bottle of apple extract!! I tasted no real apple in it at all. 
I backed sweetened with 3 maybe even four cups of splenda (trying to make a skinny wine) 
I added whole cloves. 2 TBLS Ground cinnamon (Felt like I could control the cinnamon Better) Allspice, Nutmeg. I almost reached for the pumpkin spice but stopped (will save that for something else)
I was tossing anything in to make it more apple wine tasting then beer. 
was super gassy too. I will bulk age this one for 6 months. 
Its nothing I would want to drink tonight but i remember thinking the same thing about my first batch of dragons blood and The black and Blue which I loved after 5- 6 months in the bottle. 
No tellin what this is going to taste like


----------



## MilesDavis

Tess said:


> I tasted this dry and this straight up!! taste like beer


I bottle conditioned two 22.5 oz. bottles of this as an experiment. It is absolutely fabulous! So glad I have a three gallon batch going now, and definitely will be starting another batch soon.
This gets me wondering how it would be with a small amount of hops.


----------



## Tess

Well rookie Mistake here. I went down to my wine room to find it not only still fermenting but coming up through my air lock. I cleaned out the air lock back the level down some. I cant do anything at this point but let it finish. 
I added splenda which I dont think can ferment. But, I also topped it off with almost a whole bottle of apple juice because it was to strong to begin with. 
I tasted it. taste great. 
Here's what I think, no (blush) here is what I know happened. It had been setting in the fermenter for days still as heck. No even a burp in the airlock. 
I took a reading and it was at .01 
Even after I racked it I had this feeling I should let it set a few more days then take another reading. I didnt!! 
It was stuck. My racking and degassing and then adding more apple juice got it all started again. Despite the K-meta and sorbet. The apple juice has its natural sugar so Im no sure where this is all gonna end up. Live and Learn!!! Its just at about over 2 so its not to high. I hope Im right and Splenda does not Ferment. I would think it would be higher if it did


----------



## CBell

Bottling my 3 gallon batch tonight after backsweetening with brown sugar and a touch more powdered cinnamon with backsweetening because it was starting to age out somehow. Been bulk aging about 6 months at this point. 


Starting a 6 gallon batch next week using 6.5 gallons of cider from a nearby cider mill, going to use 1/2 honey and 1/2 brown sugar to bump up the sg, and then cinnamon, cloves (just 1 or 2, I have heard they overpower easily), and go from there. 

Has anyone used cider instead of apple juice? any issues with this? seems like it will be harder to clear...


----------



## Tess

I tossed in about 10 cloves but they are all at the top. I will spoon them out in a few days


----------



## RegionRat

Tess said:


> I tasted this dry and this straight up!! taste like beer
> Pretty good beer but beer. My husband would love it but not what I was going for.
> It took a lot of doctoring for my taste. I added everything. I used half the bottle of apple extract!! I tasted no real apple in it at all.
> I backed sweetened with 3 maybe even four cups of splenda (trying to make a skinny wine)
> I added whole cloves. 2 TBLS Ground cinnamon (Felt like I could control the cinnamon Better) Allspice, Nutmeg. I almost reached for the pumpkin spice but stopped (will save that for something else)
> I was tossing anything in to make it more apple wine tasting then beer.
> was super gassy too. I will bulk age this one for 6 months.
> Its nothing I would want to drink tonight but i remember thinking the same thing about my first batch of dragons blood and The black and Blue which I loved after 5- 6 months in the bottle.
> No tellin what this is going to taste like



IMHO you need this stuff clear, then age a month or so for the natural apple flavor to come out. Slow down.... I would think being this young it would have a beer like taste. 

If you put in 1/2 bottle of the extract I think you may have over done it a bit. Kinda like me putting 3 whole vanilla beans in my Strawberry Vanilla debockle. Like I said, 1/2 tsp per gallon extract is all I use and it brings the right amount of flavor for me.





Tess said:


> ........I added splenda which I dont think can ferment. But, I also topped it off with almost a whole bottle of apple juice because it was to strong to begin with.
> I tasted it. taste great. I hope Im right and Splenda does not Ferment. I would think it would be higher if it did.....



Splenda will not ferment. It is a 'Sugar Alcohol'. Other ones you can use are; Truvia©, Ideal©, erythritol, or malitol. I used one that is xylitol

This guy explains it a little better then me.

RR


----------



## Tess

Well then Im glad I went with the splenda. lol. Its still bubbling away. I wont take another reading till Im off Friday. then I will have to taste and clear again lol


----------



## Tess

You might be right but its live and learn here. Its tasted nothing like apple and more like Miller Light LMAO


----------



## Tess

I'll take a reading Friday and take out the cloves. As far as the extract go's its a done deal. Will have to wait and see


----------



## RegionRat

Tess said:


> Well then Im glad I went with the splenda. lol. Its still bubbling away. I wont take another reading till Im off Friday. then I will have to taste and clear again lol




The only thing I can think of is you topped off with apple juice and the little bit of sugar it it is fermenting....

Hang in there.

RR


----------



## RegionRat

CBell said:


> Has anyone used cider instead of apple juice? any issues with this? seems like it will be harder to clear...



I have used fresh cider. This time of year when I can get it I use it. I have access to fresh apple just dont have the equipment to process fresh apples, YET. And I just refuse to pay $5 a gallon at the grocery store. I have never had a problem getting it to clear.

RR


----------



## WI_Wino

$5 a gallon would be a steal. All the local orchards here are asking $7+ a gallon. No discount for bulk purchases that I have found.


----------



## Tess

We have fresh cider abundant in this part of the country ths time of year. they are proud cider makers and have every right to be!! lol


----------



## Tess

Still tiny bubbles here. It might be CO2 I want to take a reading but Im to tired from work. Will do it tomorrow and go from there


----------



## derunner

I am thinking I will start this with some local cider instead of apple juice. Any changes needed for cider vs juice? How is the brown sugar batch going Tess? I was thinking of adding some honey until I read your post.


----------



## RegionRat

derunner said:


> I am thinking I will start this with some local cider instead of apple juice. Any changes needed for cider vs juice? How is the brown sugar batch going Tess? I was thinking of adding some honey until I read your post.



No changes needed. Just follow your recipe.

RR


----------



## derunner

Thanks, I have my cider, cold pasteurized, but no preservatives. So from recipe, there is no mention of yeast nutrient or yeast energizer or pectin enzyme. Is there a reason none of this is needed, but is used in other fruit wines?


----------



## RegionRat

derunner said:


> Thanks, I have my cider, cold pasteurized, but no preservatives. So from recipe, there is no mention of yeast nutrient or yeast energizer or pectin enzyme. Is there a reason none of this is needed, but is used in other fruit wines?



I use yeast nutrient and pectin enzyme. Just follow direction on the package.

RR


----------



## Tess

Mine is stuck just a little over 1 again. I removed all the cloves. Im gonna let it set for a few days and if it doesnt budge Im gonna rack it back into the primary and see if that get its moving again


----------



## Tess

Going down slowly. I refuse to throw out any batch of wine but Im sacrificing a carboy for it. I dont want anything to do with this batch LMAO...Im serious, I dont!! Its setting in the carboy and Im gonna forget about it for at least 6 months!! 
Hopefully its gonna be one of those stories where with the ugly duckling that turns into a swan that I read several times on here!! YUK!!


----------



## Tess

Not saying its not my own fault just giving it the chance it deserves!!


----------



## RegionRat

Tess said:


> Going down slowly. I refuse to throw out any batch of wine but Im sacrificing a carboy for it. I dont want anything to do with this batch LMAO...Im serious, I dont!! Its setting in the carboy and Im gonna forget about it for at least 6 months!!
> Hopefully its gonna be one of those stories where with the ugly duckling that turns into a swan that I read several times on here!! YUK!!



I feel like this in all my fault.....


RR


----------



## RegionRat

as I sip on a glass of hard cider....


RR


----------



## Tess

Cant wait to taste what this is supposed to taste Like RR!!


----------



## Tess

RegionRat said:


> I feel like this in all my fault.....
> 
> 
> RR



Why?? Your crazy..If I had listened to you I might be in better shape!! Hey RR lets see in 6 months!!


----------



## Tess

My own fault RR not yours!! Im the one who panicked and through everything but the kithen sink in this!! lol


----------



## cimbaliw

Tess, what's the temp in the fermentation room? The 3-4 apples I've done, all from juice, have been temperamental about fermentation. I wouldn't hesitate to give it a stir and slooowly warm it up with a brew belt or other type of heat source. I just got back from a week away and when I checked my 6+ month old apple it has started to referment. My most recent batch was started in a Brute primary. I think the carboy method has a couple of problems, O2 availability being one, high referment potential being the other. Perhaps they are related?


----------



## MilesDavis

I have 3 three gallon batches going in a 65 degree room, and they're bubbling away. Just started a nine gallon batch (yeah, I really _love _this stuff)last night, and it's already starting to show fizz.
I wonder if the cloves have an antiseptic property that affects the yeast?


----------



## derunner

Mine does not seem very vigorous in terms of bubbles produced, but it has heated up 6 degrees above room temperature (72F to 78F) so it must be working. I pitched Sunday.


----------



## Tess

I think I will heat it up some. I give it a good stir everyday. I will keep ya posted


----------



## Tess

Ok , I just racked it back to the fermenting bucket. Gave it some yeast nutriant, yeast energizer put on the brew belt snaped down the lid and put it on air lock . Lets see.


----------



## derunner

derunner said:


> Mine does not seem very vigorous in terms of bubbles produced, but it has heated up 6 degrees above room temperature (72F to 78F) so it must be working. I pitched Sunday.



7 hours later and it is now bubbling into the airlock. Very vigorous now.


----------



## Tess

Just dropped my hydromater in water and got the same reading lol This maybe a bad hydromater problem. im on my phone till my new AC adapter for my laptop arrives. Just to be sure. I stabalized it. Then went down a few hours later and added a cup of sugar. I will say this much. I am loving the flavor right now. Very spicy its warm. I even added just a little bit of cayenne pepper. Just a bit and Im loving it so far


----------



## Tess

This will be a winter setting in front of the fire kinda wine


----------



## Tess

Its like a mulled wine so far


----------



## Tess

At this point I will let it set under air lock till my new hydromitor arrives lol


----------



## Tess

Mine is still setting under air lock back in primary where I racked it to so it would unstick!! The hydrometer is here but Iv had a bug for a couple days so dont even feel like touching it. Its perks about every 30 seconds Im curious but not gonna fool with it today. RR, Im really happy with the flavor though. Im curious to see how its gonna age. I hope it not stuck or its gonna be time to pitch another yeast maybe? I dont know I'll cross that road when I get there. Its fine where its at for now


----------



## Tess

Im better then I was this time last week when I had night mares of pitching it lol


----------



## Tess

derunner said:


> 7 hours later and it is now bubbling into the airlock. Very vigorous now.



How is yours going. Mine was very vigorous until it stopped lol


----------



## derunner

Mine is dry now. I plan to rack tomorrow. It was very vigorous through yesterday. I do not think much of the taste at this point fully carbonated and not cleared. But wines generally do not taste good at this point. I can't really taste much apple taste. I plan to back sweeten with some apple juice concentrate so that should add some flavor back.


----------



## Tess

Im not a big bubbles fan but good luck for the best. Im not sure about your taste scale!! Mine taste good now and I bet it taste even better in 6 -12 months!!


----------



## derunner

I should probably reserve judgment on taste. I have cold and that is probably affecting taste.


----------



## Tess

derunner said:


> Mine is dry now. I plan to rack tomorrow. It was very vigorous through yesterday. I do not think much of the taste at this point fully carbonated and not cleared. But wines generally do not taste good at this point. I can't really taste much apple taste. I plan to back sweeten with some apple juice concentrate so that should add some flavor back.



I freaked out at the taste when I first tasted it. I should have let some go as it was and then worked on the rest. I am curious about how it would have turned out had I just back sweetened a bit and let age. I tasted no apple either. tasted like beer to me. I used the extract. Half a bottle  that might come back and bite me in the butt later but Im curious about that too so we shall see. Either way It will make a great wine for cooking pork!!


----------



## MilesDavis

It's fabulous when bottle-conditioned.


----------



## derunner

Racked mine today. Mine was from cider not apple juice so that may make it a bit different, but there was a lot fine lees and orange colored pulp on the sides of the bucket from the vigorous ferment. I thought it smelled better today. It will be interesting to see this clear ad see what it is like in a few months. I added one cinnamon stick to the ferment. Hopefully that is not too much in the end product.

Tess, how many cloves did you add and for how long? I would think that would go well with the cinnamon.


----------



## Tess

derunner said:


> Racked mine today. Mine was from cider not apple juice so that may make it a bit different, but there was a lot fine lees and orange colored pulp on the sides of the bucket from the vigorous ferment. I thought it smelled better today. It will be interesting to see this clear ad see what it is like in a few months. I added one cinnamon stick to the ferment. Hopefully that is not too much in the end product.
> 
> Tess, how many cloves did you add and for how long? I would think that would go well with the cinnamon.



I tossed in about 10 but only for a couple days.


----------



## Tess

Just went down to taste and rack back to carboy. Derunner, if i had it to do all over again I would have maybe added 5 for two days. The cloves really do over power. This may wind up being my Sasquatch


----------



## keahunter

Just started a 6 gallon batch after reading so much about it. The OG was lower than I had expected, 1.062 but I'm sure it will be fine. Looking forward to having this in a few months.


----------



## Tess

Mine is still stuck, wont clear. I have tried everything. I will let in set in the carboy for 6 month to see what happens. 
Im curious. Im gonna put it in Jars and put this label on it. Its got a gotta flavor. Spicy with plenty of apple. Im gonna wrack it, taste it in a few months. Maybe top it off with ever clear. I found my Sasquatch lol You will either drink it or use it as a good pork marinade or both. taste a lot like apple pie 
moonshine anyway


----------



## Julie

Derunner, two clovers per 5 gallon of wine and you can leave it in for a couple of months. Taste the wine a month later to see how it is, I believe I left mine in for two months. Another spice you could us is a chunk of ginger.


----------



## Tess

How many did you use Julie? Mine was just in there a few days and its totally over cloved at this point but Im letting it set for 6 months to see what it does.


----------



## cimbaliw

I racked off the raisins and doing so moved from a 6 to a 5 gallon carboy. I had about a half of a gallon of overage which I degassed by shaking and gave a taste after refrigerating. The 3T of acid really makes a nice change over the bland store bought apple juice flavor. It's crisp and dry and tastes like cider. I'm happy with the early results.


----------



## MilesDavis

cimbaliw said:


> I racked off the raisins and doing so moved from a 6 to a 5 gallon carboy. I had about a half of a gallon of overage which I degassed by shaking and gave a taste after refrigerating. The 3T of acid really makes a nice change over the bland store bought apple juice flavor. It's crisp and dry and tastes like cider. I'm happy with the early results.



Acid blend or straight malic acid?


----------



## Tess

I do have to admit that after racking I found three cloves still in the bottom. They had been there for a month at least, but just three. Still its over cloved. I love cloves but if I had it to do all over again I might have put two to three for a a week or so. In the end its all about taste and what u like


----------



## RegionRat

MilesDavis said:


> Acid blend or straight malic acid?



I like mine very tart so I put in ~3 tbls tartaric acid, I am sure you could use acid blend instead. Go by taste. Start with 2tbls and taste, then add 1tsp at a time till you get the tartness you like. 

RR


----------



## cimbaliw

Region, after redoing the math, I actually put in 4T (1/4c) of citric acid. It's amazing how it has mellowed from a frank citrus taste to a nice acid tartness. My LHBS does not sell tartric acid only citric or citric/malic blend. I think they are anti-tartrites! 

Anyway in all my referment glory, I will mix this 5 gal with another 5 gal apfelwein that has started referment. The referment had been spiked with a joeswine fresh lemon juice idea along with some ginger. The initial blendings suggest dry, crisp and oh so delish!


----------



## MilesDavis

RegionRat said:


> I like mine very tart so I put in ~3 tbls tartaric acid, I am sure you could use acid blend instead. Go by taste. Start with 2tbls and taste, then add 1tsp at a time till you get the tartness you like.
> 
> RR



I was thinking straight malic acid, since it is found in apples to begin with.


----------



## Tess

Mine is a reddish color right now where is that coming from?


----------



## cimbaliw

"Mine is a reddish color right now where is that coming from?"

Anger issues?


----------



## ou8amaus

Tess said:


> Mine is a reddish color right now where is that coming from?



Mine turned out red as well, due to the brown sugar.


----------



## Tess

ou8amaus said:


> Mine turned out red as well, due to the brown sugar.




thats it!!! lol


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## Tess

well....well..well. Its finally finished fermenting  After the last racking I just forgot about it for a while beside giving it the stink eye once a day when I went into my wine room. I did notice the air lock perked up a bit but I was just so over it. Well this morning I racked my Brunello. 
I thought well as long as I have everything sterilized anyway lets take a reading. I popped the air lock low and behold...its done!! It unstuck. 
Should I just let it be and let it clear on its own. I think Iv tortured this batch enough. Its been hit with Sparkled twice. Look murky as all get out. 
To beat it all, I have this strange feeling this is going to be the best batch Iv ever made  and ever Bitched about

Listen to me. You'd think Iv been doing this forever  THE SQAUTCH lives!!


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## ou8amaus

I just racked my apfelwein for the first time (it has been sitting in the same carboy since day 1, a little over 2 months ago). Lees are incredibly compact, and the apfelwein is mostly clear. It tastes absolutely awesome. Nice mellow apple flavor. I am getting a lot of flowery aromas, and the taste makes me think of apple champagne (but flat). It was fermented dry but it is not bitter. And best of all it has no "beer" flavor that I got with the cider I made a few months back. Tonight I hit it with kieselsol and chitosan to fully clear it, and from there it will be filtered and bottled. I was going to experiment (back sweeten, add spices, etc), but this already tastes too good. I feel that in 2-3 months this stuff will be really impressive.


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## MilesDavis

Drinking some right now. I bottled it two weeks ago, with no deviation from the original recipe. It may just be my new favorite thing to drink.


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## keahunter

I just tasted mine after sitting for about a month. Can't say I enjoyed it all that much...i tasted potential but it also had a taste that can only be described as "pukey". Gross, right? I'm hoping it's just because it's so young.


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## ou8amaus

MilesDavis said:


> Drinking some right now. I bottled it two weeks ago, with no deviation from the original recipe. It may just be my new favorite thing to drink.



Definitely going to be on regular rotation... I only deviated by using brown sugar (gave it a golden red color), and Lalvin K1-V1116 yeast.


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## Tess

Im going to bottle mine in a couple weeks.


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## Tess

Gotta order some super Kleer. Give it a chance. This stuff is just not clearing with Sparkloid. If I have to with bottle in green bottles. Sasquatch is Born!! Cant wait for my son to taste it. He wanted a Sasquatch he has one!!


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## ou8amaus

Tess said:


> Gotta order some super Kleer. Give it a chance. This stuff is just not clearing with Sparkloid. If I have to with bottle in green bottles. Sasquatch is Born!! Cant wait for my son to taste it. He wanted a Sasquatch he has one!!



I made the cardinal sin of not clearing before bottling on a previous batch, and after months it still never cleared, so I ended up filtering it and it came out crystal... Mind you who would want a crystal clear Sasquatch...


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## Tess

ou8amaus said:


> I made the cardinal sin of not clearing before bottling on a previous batch, and after months it still never cleared, so I ended up filtering it and it came out crystal... Mind you who would want a crystal clear Sasquatch...



 exactly!! I need to free up the carboy. Its taste great!! If I put it in green bottles you dont see it till you pour it? Its already called Sasquatch so what are you expecting. A hairy glass of wine right.  I think this is gonna work!


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## Tess

Im sorry to say this will be my last batch of Apfelwein . At least for now, thats what I say. .This one has totally confused me!! I might try it again in a year or so


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## ckvchestnut

I've come up with a couple stuck fermentations with mine. Hubby was doing the apple wine and didn't take an initial SG reading before fermentation started. When it was down to 1.002 I took my 3 gallon share from his 15 gallon batch and did added 2 cans of cranberry concentrate. Both my batch an his batch got stuck right at 1.002. So we racked our batches added k meta, yeast nutrient and energizer and nothing. So today I pitched EC-1118 to both batches. We used kv-1116 for the initial batch. 

His batch is really cloudy and it's jut not settling, we added more pectic enzyme but that did nothing. Can I add sparkalloid or super Kleer during fermentation or should I just wait until fermentation is done?


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## ckvchestnut

Oops i just realized it was the k meta that would have definitely inhibited fermentation so I should have realized that after adding that I would have to wait and add more yeast. I felt I had to add the k meta though because these batches were in the primaries for over a month and I wasn't sure how long they were stuck for before I figured it out. So everything is going again and bubbling, trusty EC-1118!


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## Bartman

ckvchestnut said:


> Oops i just realized it was the k meta that would have definitely inhibited fermentation so I should have realized that after adding that I would have to wait and add more yeast. I felt I had to add the k meta though because these batches were in the primaries for over a month and I wasn't sure how long they were stuck for before I figured it out. So everything is going again and bubbling, trusty EC-1118!



Yeah, I have joked about EC-1118 before: With a little nutrient and some air, I think it can make a rusty nail ferment!


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## ckvchestnut

Haha yes! They are true warriors! I'll be keeping some on my shelf if we ever have to endure another WW!


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## ou8amaus

I recently racked my apple wine after it sitting in the carboy for 2 months. It was somewhat clear, but I wanted it sparkling. I added Kieselsol and then chitosan per the instruction I have followed numerous times for kits (and that works like a charm on Dragons Blood by the way). After stirring in the Kieselsol I waited 24hrs and it already looked very clear. Instead of leaving it at that and racking... I stirred in the chitosan. Now it has been 2 weeks and whatever benefit the Kieselsol had has been negated it seems. Back to as clear as when I racked it. My question is does anyone know of conditions where these 2 clarifiers would work against each other? The wine is completed its ferment per hydrometer and I noticed very little gas while racking. I added the clarifiers per the instructions... but I am unsure of how to go forward. Should I just pass it through a 1 micron filter and hopefully that will clear it up?


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## twofocused

Is there any need to degas or add k meta if you plan on bottling in wine bottles and aging them? My apfel is a few months old and about to be racked to a carboy for clearing and long term aging.

Thanks, J


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## ou8amaus

twofocused said:


> Is there any need to degas or add k meta if you plan on bottling in wine bottles and aging them? My apfel is a few months old and about to be racked to a carboy for clearing and long term aging.
> 
> Thanks, J



I would say yes to the kmeta... No to degassing if you will be bulk aging anyways...


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## twofocused

ou8amaus said:


> I would say yes to the kmeta... No to degassing if you will be bulk aging anyways...



And then another dose of K meta when bottling?

Only use sorbate if back sweetening?

Sorry for all the questions.


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## ou8amaus

I have gone by the 1/4 tsp every three months rule when bulk aging. If you have the tools to measure sulfate levels then all the better... But I have used this rule of thumb based on numerous peoples advice on this site, and so far it has proved to be good advice. And I add 1/4 tsp right before bottling...


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## ou8amaus

... And I have started holding back the sorbate if I ferment dry. No need unless there is sugar present...


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## twofocused

Thanks so much. Now I need to buy more carboys.


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## ckvchestnut

Just a quick update on my cranberry apple cider.... Turned out a lovely refreshing and crisp sparkling cider. It was a tad on the dry side though like a champagne because I didn't backsweeten to avoid too much pressure in the bottles. Hubby bottled it for me one day when I was away. Opened a bottle over the holidays and a nice fizz to it. We bottled in 2 liter pop bottles primed with 1tbsp sugar. Here's what it looked like in the glass I should have poured it into a champagne flute for fun!


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## MilesDavis

Looks pretty good!


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## ckvchestnut

Yes it was fun doing two different styles. Husband did straight apple mixing sweeter apples with crabapples and I stole 3 gals of his to play with and add the cranberry I liked the end result!


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## derunner

My apfelwein made from cider is now very clear so I could bottle it. I prefer clear wine. It does not seem to have a lot of apple flavor, and perhaps too much cinnamon flavor. I had one small stick of cinnamon in the primary for a week. I am thinking of backsweetening to about 1.010 or 1.015. Does that sound about right and will that cause the flavor of the apple to come out more? Or does this just need more aging for the flavors to come out. Yeast was pitched on 10/12/13?

Does 5 -6 cups sugar sound right for raising from .994 to 1.015? Or do you think I would be better off adding frozen apple juice concentrate to sweeten? However if that apple juice has pulp, I'll probably have to go a couple more months of aging to clear.
Thanks


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## datcv

I did a 3 gallon batch of apfelwein a while back and I still have some bottles that have been sitting in the cabinet. It was the first wine I ever attempted and I am sure I did something wrong because it really just was not very good.

I let it sit in primary fermentation for about 6 months (never racked it off) and I left way too much air space in the carboy. When I finally bottled it, it had no flavor at all. After a year and a half it smells like apples when I open it, but has NO flavor. Completely bland and not worth drinking.

So, out of curiosity, is it the oxygen that probably killed the flavor? I have been making some other fruit wines and I want to make sure I don't repeat the same mistake.


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## MilesDavis

datcv said:


> I did a 3 gallon batch of apfelwein a while back and I still have some bottles that have been sitting in the cabinet. It was the first wine I ever attempted and I am sure I did something wrong because it really just was not very good.
> 
> I let it sit in primary fermentation for about 6 months (never racked it off) and I left way too much air space in the carboy. When I finally bottled it, it had no flavor at all. After a year and a half it smells like apples when I open it, but has NO flavor. Completely bland and not worth drinking.
> 
> So, out of curiosity, is it the oxygen that probably killed the flavor? I have been making some other fruit wines and I want to make sure I don't repeat the same mistake.



Apfelwein is somewhat subtle in flavor and pretty dry. It tastes vastly better if it is carbonated.


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## Gracie

Thanks for sharing this! I just put 5 gallons of it to bed this morning. I used Champagne yeast per a suggestion on YouTube but otherwise followed your directions. Any thoughts on the use of Champagne yeast here? I am the greenest of newbies at this.


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


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## MilesDavis

Champagne yeast works just fine.


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## Gracie

Thanks Miles!


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making


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## Jstokerjr

Started this a few days back. Followed Eds directions to the T. It's giving off a strong sulfur smell. I'm a noon but did some research and added some yeast nutrient and energizer. Did I jump the gun? Is this normal with y'all's apfelwiens?

Cheers


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## go_mustangs

Good Morning and thank you for all the information in this thread and of course the wonderful recipe. The first batch I made, I back sweetened with splenda and keg carbed (it turned out great). My current 6 gallon batch I thought I would stabilize with 1/4 teaspoon Potassium Metabisulfite and 3 teaspoons Potassium Sorbate then back sweeten with 4 cups of regular sugar (simple syrup) and eventually keg carb. So yesterday I did just that and popped the airlock back on and this morning I have some bubbling (maybe one bubble every minute or two). What do I do now? Add more Potassium Metabisulfite and/or more Potassium Sorbate? If so, how much of each? Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.


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## springmom

Heh. As I read this, I'm having a pint. Made it about 8 months ago and at this point.... Pure. Heaven.


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## Jstokerjr

Racked and stabilized and back sweetend w 1/2 a gallon of the same apple juice. Tasty.


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## T_Baggins

I make it with farm fresh pasteurized sweet apple cider and as much as 3lb/gal raw cane sugar and ferment to .998


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## Dominic1920

I made a version of this using Hansen's brand all natural apple strawberry juice. It has a very subtle taste, hardly any strawberry flavor coming through. Any foreseeable problem with adding a little strawberry extract to bring the berry flavor forward?


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## buckhorn

I'd like to try making this recipe - but after reading the whole thread, I have some questions. Since there is a lot of experience making this here, maybe someone can help me with the answers.

1. I would like to make mine carbonated like the Hard Cider I purchase at the local cidery -- can this be done and still bottle it for extended periods (like the 2 years some have suggested?
2. How do you carbonate? I am not a beer drinker, so have never done brewing...
3. What size bottles do you use? I have 375mL and 187mL bottles, and was thinking the 187mL/single serve bottles would be good for something like this
4. Do you cork your bottles or use crimp tops like beer? My concern is the carbonation with the corked bottles, and with the 187mL bottles would acrimp top work better (again, like beer bottles)

After I find success with the first batch, I will look to add cinnimon or other fruit flavors and how to do that best, but first steps first.

Thanks in advance for any answers....


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## Johny99

My experience:

1. I seed my bottles with a bit of sugar. It ferments in the bottle and carbonates it. You do get a bit of lees as a result. One guy in town here goes through the whole champagne method of sparking to avoid it. Too much work for me. Unfortunately, mine never lasts a couple of years, , but after a year it is still good. 
2. See above, you can also CO2 charge if you have the right stuff. I just go the easy way. 
3. & 4, I use the clip top bottles, either reused from commercial ciders I seek out or new. They are made to handle the carbonation and pretty cheap.

Go for it. I've been experimenting with adding crab apples. Gives tannins and a bit of color.


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## jburtner

A little lees wouldnt be too bad. They also have these carbonation pellets at the lhbs near me. Not sure yet what they do?

Cheers!
-jb


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## buckhorn

jburtner - I am guessing they fizz something like an alka-seltzer tablet. I was reading the instructions for one of the commercial hard cider kits and it talked about adding a tablet to the bottle. I didn't realize you could purchase tablets outside of kits. 

I really need to visit the LHBS (the one I had been going to closed, so I have to make a special trip to the next nearest one) and get something started


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## Tess

Tess said:


> Im sorry to say this will be my last batch of Apfelwein . At least for now, thats what I say. .This one has totally confused me!! I might try it again in a year or so



This wound up Being the Best Apple wine I have ever had in my life. It was soooo Bad at first I named it Sasquatch. I added way to many cloves. After realizing, my mistake I removed them all after just a few days.
I used Brown sugar to Back sweeten instead of white which makes it harder to clear. I wound up Bottling just a case and tossing the rest.
I shoved that case away In a dark spot for over a year. I ran across it and popped the cork out of curiosity.
Im sick I tossed most of it. This was my learning experience on how wine ages in the Bottle. It was amazing. I would love to make that same Batch again.


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## Tess

This is why you will never find me aging wine in the CarBoy. 1.. it takes so much longer and 2.... I will never have that many carboys I can keep out of action that long. lol. Noting wrong with it if you have that kinda time and that many carBoys though lol


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## Jennifer Patterson

13 pages and I am still confused really really confused!! I would like to try this in a 3-gallon batch. But I would like to use fresh pressed juice from my own apples. I am new at this, what are the pros and cons of using the fresh juice? And are there steps I should take that are different from the original recipe? I pressed the apples yesterday, and need to get started as I am out of freezer space.


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## Scooter68

There is no reason not to start. Just use plenty of pectic enzyme and use it as soon as the apple juice is ready. That will help with both the release of all the sugars and the clearing. There are no special steps other than perhaps leaving the juice for 24-48 hours covered with the pectic enzyme and k-meta/Campden tab(s) added. Don't add any water to the juice - pure juice. 

As to additives, Acid blend to get the pH in the 3.4 to 3.6 range, 1/4 tsp tannin per gallon, 1/2 tsp Yeast Nutrient/per gallon, Sugar to get the SG to where you want it. The additives can all be added with the pectic enzyme. 

Then proceed as with any ferment. After the waiting time 24-48 hrs prepare your yeast starter and when that's good, pitch the yeast, stir and cover. 

You should plan on adding additional Yeast Nutrient (1/2 tsp per gallon) when the SG has dropped to around 1.050 - 1.040.


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## porkchopmessiah

So, I went apple picking with the fam, and as usual I picked too many (by about 50lb) anybody have a recipe that starts with raw apples? or........Was thinking of making cider from a recipe that popped up on my facebook feed and then just fermenting that with additional sugar?..
please let me know your thoughts one either option....and I don't a have a press or juicer...so that limits me a bit


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## DinoSorez

Just bottled after a month of bulk aging. I sweetened with 8 ounce of lactose and added 3/4 cup of corn sugar for carbonation. 













IMG_1051



__ DinoSorez
__ Aug 17, 2019


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